# The Stax Thread III



## Currawong

Due to the large page count and recent amount of off-topic posting, I've restarted this thread. 
  
 As Carl said back in 2007:
  


> Keeping a broad scope with regards to subject matter has served us well up to now, so feel free to discuss anything related to Stax and electrostatic/electret headphones and their amplification in general.


 
 For the sake of those people seeking information, especially given the discussion of vintage gear which often needs maintenance or repair, please do keep on topic (or not far off it). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The old threads are here:
  
The Stax Thread (New)
The Stax Thread
Long, meandering comparison of Stax 404 and Stax X-III, Episode I


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## jjinh

Quote: 





currawong said:


> The old threads are here (or will be, when I find them again):
> 
> The Stax Thread (New)
> The Stax Thread


 
   
  The Stax Thread is here
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/189204/the-stax-thread


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## davidsh

Stax related: Actually, the Jade has a diaphragm thickness of only 500 nm, and that is the thinnest diaphragm I have ever heard of. HE90 diaphragm is 1 um, and the thinnest Stax diaphragm is 1 um as well from my knowledge.


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## Currawong

Thanks. I just worked out how to find the old thread after Google decided to be unusually unhelpful.


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## jjinh

Quote: 





davidsh said:


> Stax related: Actually, the Jade has a diaphragm thickness of only 500 nm, and that is the thinnest diaphragm I have ever heard of. HE90 diaphragm is 1 um, and the thinnest Stax diaphragm is 1 um as well from my knowledge.


 
   
  The original lambda signatures and sigma pros are 1um
   
_Aside - _Question for mods/admin:


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



Quote: 





currawong said:


> Thanks. I just worked out how to find the old thread after Google decided to be unusually unhelpful.


 
   
  Why does the link from the opening post of The Stax Thread (NEW) to The Stax Thread go somewhere else?
   
  I've noticed this happens all the time with links in old threads.


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## n3rdling

hi peeps


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## davidsh

That was OT 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Stax related: The original Lambda was made for mercedes benz to re-produce the low frequencies of the engines according to Darth-Nut.


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## jjinh

Quote: 





n3rdling said:


> hi peeps


 
   
  Hi Milos. Are you still listening to your King Sounds?


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## DairyProduce

How were people getting off topic? I browsed the last 1-2 pages and it seemed to be (kind of) relevant to staxs


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## davidsh

I guess Currawong removed some OT content.


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## autoteleology

So...

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/190888016408

 I'm going to do whatever I have to do in order to win these since I don't have any mid-tier gear anymore (just electrets) and I've been looking for these for quite some time. The terrible condition of the foams also works very well in my favor as well since I just happen to have an extra set lying around.

 Basically, I'm just hoping that nobody is going to bid me up for no reason.


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## davidsh

Look, I made it 350 now


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## milosz

What do folks use on Stax earpads to clean / preserve them?  I would think a premium leather treatment like Lexol would work for the real leather ones.  For the pleather ones, a little mild soap and water would probably be fine.
   
  Any thoughts?


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## dukeskd

@Tus-Chan, posting an auction that you're bidding on here _publicly _is sort of like shooting yourself in the foot.


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## autoteleology

> Lexol is a cleaner designed not to damage leather.  It's ph balanced with leather and alkaline free, read not harsh.  The conditioner does an amazing job of gently oiling and giving the leather that smooth, subtle feel back. It works well even on really old, hard, leather.


 
   
  Could Lexol, say, soften up leather enough to take a big wrinkle out of a headphone pad? One of the electrets I'm soon to own has a pretty big ripple on one of the pads. I know they're made out of pleather, but would it have a similar effect?


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## shipsupt

It almost certainly could if it were leather.  I am really not sure how, or if, it would work on the pleather.


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## Currawong

Quote: 





jjinh said:


> _Aside - _Question for mods/admin:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> ...


 
   
   


Spoiler: Answer%20to%20jjinh



The forum had a HUGE crash at the end of 2007 and after it was rebuilt all the links to threads were broken.


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## GL1TCH3D

New thread =O
Anyway, was wondering what you guys thought would be a good dac pairing for an srm1mk2 running a stax sr007mk2 (with mk3 drivers).
I find my current parasound 1500 too warm with the sr007mk2 which in itself is a warm pair.


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## Argybargy

MK3?
I know there were 2 versions of the mk1, mk2 which was moddable and mk2.5 which was not. Is mk3 different from mk2.5, or just the same thing?


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## dukeskd

Quote: 





gl1tch3d said:


> New thread =O
> Anyway, was wondering what you guys thought would be a good dac pairing for an srm1mk2 running a stax sr007mk2 (with mk3 drivers).
> I find my current parasound 1500 too warm with the sr007mk2 which in itself is a warm pair.


 

 A cold sounding DAC would be Benchmark's DACs, if that is the sound you want to pursue. I have the Mytek which is in the middle of the road between warm and cold/analytical sounding.


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## spritzer

Yet another new Stax thread....  Try to keep the discussion on topic and leave out all the ebay links and that crap.  Actual questions about Stax are being buried in useless discussion which is not the goal of this thread. 
  Quote: 





davidsh said:


> That was OT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No, it was designed for the shake test and the like all Merc's went through at the factory.  This was back when they still made the best cars in the world... 
   
  Quote: 





davidsh said:


> Stax related: Actually, the Jade has a diaphragm thickness of only 500 nm, and that is the thinnest diaphragm I have ever heard of. HE90 diaphragm is 1 um, and the thinnest Stax diaphragm is 1 um as well from my knowledge.


 
   
  We have no idea what the current diaphragms are made of or even how thick they are but it is quite clear that thinner isn't always better.  That's why Stax moved back to 1.5um for the 1993/1994 lineup and then again to 1.35um for the 1998/1999 series. 
   
  Quote: 





argybargy said:


> MK3?
> I know there were 2 versions of the mk1, mk2 which was moddable and mk2.5 which was not. Is mk3 different from mk2.5, or just the same thing?


 
   
  There is no Mk3, they are still SZ3-1xxx


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## n3rdling

Quote: 





jjinh said:


> Hi Milos. Are you still listening to your King Sounds?


 
  Nope not really.  I had the KS and Lambda Nova Signatures out for comparison and I ended up putting the KS back in their box and keeping the LNS out for listening.


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## FrankCooter

Quote: 





spritzer said:


> Yet another new Stax thread....  Try to keep the discussion on topic and leave out all the ebay links and that crap.  Actual questions about Stax are being buried in useless discussion which is not the goal of this thread.


 
  Totally agree! At one day old, this thread already needs a severe pruning.  Perhaps there should be a thread devoted exclusively to technical issues.


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## NamelessPFG

To be fair, the thread's proposed subject is pretty broad in terms of Stax discussion.
   
  I saw nothing in the OP that specifically said that it should be more focused on technical specifications as opposed to where to buy Stax hardware, particularly used stuff at lower prices.
   
  I also saw nothing about whether discussion on personal preferences regarding which Stax gear sounds better relative to other Stax gear (particularly the numerous Lambda variants) should be permitted or discouraged.
   
  If you all want to keep this thread on topic, it's best to set a clear, obvious guideline NOW as to what constitutes on-topic and off-topic, and whether other valid topics of discussion should be spun off into separate threads from this one.
   
  Most of all, that guideline needs to be edited right into the original post, in big, bold text you can't overlook at a glance.


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## steve2151

Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> It's already been posted in other places before I posted it here, not to mention the fact that it's a ten-day auction and almost anyone under the sun looking for a Lambda is going to see it anyways. I figure the best I can do at this point is publicly announce the fact that I'm going to be bidding a bunch of money for it. It's not the ideal strategy, and it's kind of pathetic, but I'd be naive to rely on the powers of secrecy at this point.
> 
> After all, the last time I bid on a Lambda on eBay, someone else on Head-Fi ended up getting run up a good extra hundred dollars for nothing just because neither of us said anything about it, and almost immediately regretted making the purchase because they paid so much for it. I'm trying to avoid that situation from happening again, and I'm especially trying to avoid it happening to me.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I sorta wanted those Lambda Sigs, but after hearing Tus-Chan's story about how he has no Lambdas left, will pass on this one. I will settle for a review if he wins these and save the money for a bigger amp.


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## Ali-Pacha

Question from a newbie : which Lambda should I choose to taste its sound at lowest price ? Used ? New ? SR-207 alone (or SR-307) ? Vintage normal bias ? 
   
  Ali


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## jaycalgary

Can I have the other thread back along with this one? Too many chronic posters posting nonsense as far as I am concerned. I would be happy if they kept their gibberish on one of the Stax threads and the other a bit more quiet and a bit more interesting.


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## purk

I might as well join this thread.  Becoming such a huge fan of their stuffs these days.  KG & Birgir are a bad influence to us all.


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## spritzer

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> To be fair, the thread's proposed subject is pretty broad in terms of Stax discussion.
> 
> I saw nothing in the OP that specifically said that it should be more focused on technical specifications as opposed to where to buy Stax hardware, particularly used stuff at lower prices.
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's supposed to cover everything Stax related but what was going on lately in the old thread was just too much.  Going way off topic and the same idiotic discussion going in endless circles was just too much.  Granted it was only a few offenders and if it picks up again then asking for them to be banned from the thread would be the next step.  This brings nothing to the discussion, adds nothing new so why should it be tolerated?  Go post in the entry level Stax thread out there in the wasteland... 
   
  Quote: 





purk said:


> I might as well join this thread.  Becoming such a huge fan of their stuffs these days.  KG & Birgir are a bad influence to us all.


 
   
  We aren't that bad... honest...


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## purk

Quote: 





spritzer said:


> It's supposed to cover everything Stax related but what was going on lately in the old thread was just too much.  Going way off topic and the same idiotic discussion going in endless circles was just too much.  Granted it was only a few offenders and if it picks up again then asking for them to be banned from the thread would be the next step.  This brings nothing to the discussion, adds nothing new so why should it be tolerated?  Go post in the entry level Stax thread out there in the wasteland...
> 
> 
> *We aren't that bad... honest...
> ...


 
  Allow me to rephrase.  Good influence but bad on the wallet.


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## davidsh

Quote: 





ali-pacha said:


> Question from a newbie : which Lambda should I choose to taste its sound at lowest price ? Used ? New ? SR-207 alone (or SR-307) ? Vintage normal bias ?
> 
> Ali


 
  Have a look at the entry stax thread... Else what sound sig do you like? Because all you mentioned are viable options..
   
  I'm back on my lambda sig's btw, got the pads back on again.. Now with 1-2 mm of extra space, it is really nice, but the housing is still slightly sticky. Can't say how it affects the sound, but it seems less intimate than I remember. Probably just because I have grown accustomed to the 500's. 
   
  Have a question btw. How do you like to position your lambdas? I guess it is a well known fact that the sound is sligthly colored by how you position the earspeakers? Anyway, I like to have them sitting high on my head with the lower part of the housing shifted forward, so the thick part of the pads is just behind/slightly below my ears.


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## Ali-Pacha

I'm no basshead.
  I love the sound of my SR-5, and look for something a bit more refined, with better imaging. My SR-X mk3 is mor refined, but a bit boring and really lacks bass
  For ultimate transparency and overwhelming amount of informations, I already have my SR-009 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Ali


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## davidsh

Quote: 





ali-pacha said:


> I'm no basshead.
> I love the sound of my SR-5, and look for something a bit more refined, with better imaging. My SR-X mk3 is mor refined, but a bit boring and really lacks bass
> For ultimate transparency and overwhelming amount of informations, I already have my SR-009
> 
> ...


 
  Oh well... Dunno, maybe the original lambda would be nice?


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## tdogzthmn

I recently bought a STAX SRD-7 SB to to pair with my Bottlehead SEX 2.1 amp.  Not sure if many people have had success with these compared against a regular STAX amp.  I will have to see if my 507 will like the SRD-7 + Bottlehead combo.  Consensus seems to point towards the SRD being inferior to the dedicated amps but I'll be able to test it for myself once the unit arrives.


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## MacedonianHero

So its been 6 days since I received Birgir's built KGSSHV and I literally haven't listened to any of my full sized headphones since!  All I can say is wow! Great build by a great builder (who is always makes time to help others). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (FWIW, KG has also been very helpful through my Stax journey too and as mentioned earlier, yes they can be hard on the wallet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


, but assets to our community IMO).
   
  For those wondering the differences between the KGSS and the KGSSHV, I would say that the improvements are on par with the GS-X MKII over the GS-1. Just more of everything...transparency, imaging/staging, bass control/depth. 
   
  I guess next itch to scratch will be a new DAC in the fall.
   
  Oh...and subscribed to this thread.


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## steve2151

MacedonianHero, congrats on your new KGSSHV. The improvement in going from a GS-1 to a GS-X MKII is no small engineering feat and a good 10% on a headphone that scales well with balancing. That's the difference between mid-fi and summit-fi right there.
   
  Now, if only the mods and KG could find a vendor and put together a group buy for the rest of us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I figure there is at least demand for 10-15 units at $2500-$3000 each. 
   
  I almost bit on a Liquid Lightning II, but Spritzer's magic pixie dust comment in the last thread put me off. Then again, pixie dust vs unobtainium is a tough battle to judge.
   
   
  Could someone explain what the limitations of using a Stax transformer box are? I see the power vs finesse argument in the HE-6 forums a lot, is it something similar and can the gap be overcome with a quality power amp?


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## gilency

Tus-Chan, re http://www.ebay.com/itm/190888016408
As long as you are not betting against Milos you may have a chance


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## n3rdling

I already have those


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## wink

Need a back-up just in case.....


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## jjinh

Quote: 





jaycalgary said:


> Can I have the other thread back along with this one? Too many chronic posters posting nonsense as far as I am concerned. I would be happy if they kept their gibberish on one of the Stax threads and the other a bit more quiet and a bit more interesting.


 
   
  Maybe all the 'gibberish' should go in The Entry Level Stax Thread.
   
  @Currawong: can you also stick a link to the above mentioned thread in your opening post.


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## jjinh

@Erwin: Hey, how are the Koss 950s compared to, say, the SR202s?


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## DefQon

Anybody want a Blue Hawaii Special Edition?
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HeadAmp-Blue-Hawaii-SE-Electrostatic-Headphone-Amp-62-Blue-w-extras-/190889063758?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2c71dff54e


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## n3rdling

All that money going to ebay when he could just list it here for free...


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## DefQon

Yeah seems he is selling a 009 and a 10k dac. I recall seeing that Blue BHSE posted here while ago in the meets thread.


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## telecaster

for little more than 20000 bux you can get yourself a pretty "statement" pair of speakers and amp... Or a glorious sounding digital less pretty speakers... I understand why he is selling his 009/BHSE/DAC...


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## milosz

Which Stax 'phones have real leather earpads?  Which are pleather?
   
  I think 007- mk1's  are leather, no?  How about older Lambda Pro, Lambda Signature, and the Lambda Nova / Signature  etc...?


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## steve2151

Quote: 





milosz said:


> Which Stax 'phones have real leather earpads?  Which are pleather?
> 
> I think 007- mk1's  are leather, no?  How about older Lambda Pro, Lambda Signature, and the Lambda Nova / Signature  etc...?


 
   
  The brown SR007MKI are synthetic leather. The SR009, SR007MKII, and 404LE/507 are real leather.


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## jaycalgary

Do you know this for a fact? I am pretty sure my brown 007s mk1 are all lambskin and the 007 mk2 are mostly lambskin with the part that goes under the ring pleather. My 404 limited,507's and 009's also have real leather.


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## steve2151

According to Stax USA, the brown pads are synthetic leather and the black pads are real leather, hence the extra $30 for the black pads.
   
https://www.staxusa.com/parts/ear-pads/stax-sr-007-earpad.html
   
  My SR007MKI pads seem to be made out of the same synthetic material as my SR404 pads. If you've got a source of brown real leather pads, let us know. I could use a set.


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## duncan1

My 007 MK1s are covered with black leather. I have the original paperwork that came with them. Even the first review of them in a leading  UK hi-fi mag says the same,


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## wink

Quote:Jjinh 





> @Erwin: Hey, how are the Koss 950s compared to, say, the SR202s?


 
  You're welcome to find out....


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## steve2151

Quote: 





duncan1 said:


> My 007 MK1s are covered with black leather. I have the original paperwork that came with them. Even the first review of them in a leading  UK hi-fi mag says the same,


 
   
  Do you have the SR007BL version with the black pads, headband, and cable? I saw one in the for sale forum here and was tempted to pick it up for the real leather pads and headband.
   
  Then I saw the Euro sign and put my wallet down.


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## duncan1

Steve2151-  You are right . Maybe this was a "European thing" I dont know  for sure . But this has been brought up before  and many arguments ensued as somebody said they were all artificial .Mine dont look or feel artificial. I like them so much that I wont be "upgrading" any time soon.They suite my completely open sound equipment and with my modified Stax 727-11 I have more than enough detail . The 009s were just too much detail on my system.


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## steve2151

Duncan1, your SR007BL was the export model for the US and Europe. I never saw what the price premium was for the SR007BL vs the brown Japanese SR007, but I'd probably expect something in the 25% range like it is for the current Omega 2s.


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## duncan1

Thanks for the information-steve2151- Always good to get a decent post.


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## SBranson

I want to change the voltage on a 717 and by digging through old threads I came up with this picture and info:
   

   

   
  The amp I am getting is missing one of the jumpers as it is set for 240v. (the photo is not the amp obviously)
  Any one know what material is used in the jumpers?  Could I get by with a common steel nail cut to size?


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## duncan1

Under no circumstances use a nail . These jumpers are hardened steel with a deep  chrome finish . They are made that way for easy fitting and their non-corrosive qualities so that there is no deterioration  of the skin of the metal due to the  air due to oxidation  which would attack the spring clips that hold them and rot them as they are thin.If you cant get any then buy a short length of stainless steel rod and cut it to size.


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## SBranson

Thanks!!..  I have some ss rod on hand as it happens.  Would you suggest I replace all three for continuity's sake or perhaps one of the positions is a little less crucial that it be the original part?


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## duncan1

It would not matter greatly in  which ones you chose to put the new SS jumpers[as long as it is the correct position for your mains voltage] . Keep the chromed jumper and just add the rest. . What you are doing is just changing the primary winding internal layout to suite  your particular voltage so there is no real "special position" as the mains current on switch on is equally spread over the Primary windings..


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## SBranson

Thanks again.  Any idea, off hand, of the o.d. of the jumpers?


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## duncan1

I dont know if Canada has "gone Metric" so in old UK measure its 3/16s-of an inch- looks like 5 MM in metric.


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## SBranson

Thanks very much!  I have quite a bit of 3/16"SS rod for knife handle work.  We are metric in Canada, officially...  I am not however.


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## duncan1

Same here--SBRANSON neither am I.


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## davidsh

My sig's does definitely seem to have a more dry sound after messing with the pads, with less bass bloom... Still dunno if it just is me...


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## NoPants

Has stax published any information regarding the capacitance/inductance of their ribbon cables? There was some link I remember reading way back when about how normal wires are disastrous because of their low inductance? I could be wrong though. I'm trying to leverage some parts I have lying around for recabling, as stupid as that might sound.
   
  Also, does the material for the cable housing/strain relief matter? It seems like something that could be 3D-printed and then covered in another material, etc. etc.


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## kevin gilmore

pretty sure the capacitance of a sr007/009 cable between adjacent wires
  is 30pf for the standard length and is 3000 nanohenrys.
  remember that the bias wire is always between the two stators.


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## jcx

I don't think homebrew ES headphone cable is the best idea...
  Quote: 





> milli amps can kill, higher V (> ~ 200 V) punches thru your outer dead skin cells which give some insulation when dry, when wet you don't even have that much insulation
> 
> as little as 50 mA passing thru your chest can kill - not that anyone would think to do it while getting shocked but you would theoretically be better ripping the phones off your head with one hand (the right) rather than grabbing each cup with each hand
> 
> ...


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## ultimanium

I've got a friend who has a pair or electrets. The srd-4 box for them has been modified for a TRS plug, and their current amp cannot power it.
Is their a relatively cheap amp headphone amp that would be good for these?
Cutting off the TRS plug and hooking it into a speaker amp would be a pain.


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## milosz

Quote: 





ultimanium said:


> I've got a friend who has a pair or electrets. The srd-4 box for them has been modified for a TRS plug, and their current amp cannot power it.
> Is their a relatively cheap amp headphone amp that would be good for these?
> Cutting off the TRS plug and hooking it into a speaker amp would be a pain.


 
  Get a TRS jack and put a set of wires on it to connect to speaker terminals of a regular amp or receiver. Plug the TRS plug into that jack....  No low-cost headphone amp is going to have enough power to drive those.


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## 3X0

Thanks for the tip on the PS1 screws spritzer. I replaced 7 of the crappy HE60 screws with the robust PS1 screws last night and now I'm not worried they'll strip every time I have at them. The heads are a little larger so the pads don't snap on as easily but I'm fine with the compromise.
   
  Of concern though, I mentioned one of my o-rings definitely snapped. When I removed the left earcup to take a look the driver lifted off of the grommet with the earcup. I wasn't able to secure the snapped o-ring back into place and even with the left earcup fully re-assembled and screwed down, the left driver rattles a bit off the grommet and into the back of the earcup when handling the headphones.
   
  I'm not really concerned with the sonic consequences of the lack of o-rings as I will not be using the HE60 until I obtain replacements, but I am concerned if uncharged stators are prone to damage by repeated minor physical shock such as rattling between the rubber inner grommet and outer hard plastic.
   
  The final concern is that the last screw is unbelievably stripped. I was rather unsuccessful with the JB Weld so I purchased a screw extractor set off Amazon and am hoping for the best. Failing that, I might just have to try and carefully dremel a slot into the head. Have not been able to access the right earcup yet to due this setback.


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## spritzer

Easy fix to a snapped o-ring, take some crazy glue and just glue it together again.  Works like a charm until some other part of it snaps... 
   
  I wouldn't worry about the drivers as they are all fiber reinforced plastic and quite strong.


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## Oingo Boingo

[size=medium]After few years of headphones’ hobby it has turned down (or up)) mostly e-stats for me.  SR-Omega, HE90, 009 and 007 are now the core team.  As a side comment: the R10 bass light go as “dynamic phones with the great e-stat mids” for me (kind of)).  After few tries to find the best amp for e-stats it has ended up in DIY.  The idea was very modest and simple: to put together the best e-stat amp out there))  I was lucky enough to get a very experienced engineer/designer on my side.  Dmitry (the Man) has designed numerous pieces of audio equipment including amps for e-stats, but this time he needed to get back to his lab for a while…  The design is Dmitry’s know-how, but it’s based on classic pre-WW2 designs, sure taking into account the specifics of e-stats.  Three prototypes have been made and tested.  The designs of T2, HEV90, KGBH, WES and few other e-stat amps have been reviewed.  The current tubes include Philips Miniwatt AL4 (Telefunken AL4 as a second set), RCA JAN 5692 red base and CV1264 rectifier (in PU).  All the 4 e-stat phones have benefited a lot.  The original SR-Omegas and HE90 are my favorites, followed by 009. 007mk2 are the most amp-hungry, a lion to feed and roar, became a major basshead attraction))  To cut a long story short few pics are attached: [/size]


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## n3rdling

Very nice collection 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Did the headband on your SR-Omega snap?  It looks kinda weird from the side.


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## davidsh

Ohh god, that is amazing!! What is your source?


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## arnaud




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## Oingo Boingo

Quote:


n3rdling said:


> Very nice collection
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  [size=medium]Yep...  Thanks God, it all happened “safe” right when I was taking them off ))  I've fixed it the way it is for the time being (with 2 extra bars inside), but may get a better mod later on.  It fits great the way it is now, so I put the final mod on hold.  Omegas sound just out of this world…  I’ve also modded the earpads of Omegas, my ears start burning after 20 minutes with the original ones.  Now they fit great and are very comfortable, here is a rather simple mod with a very soft suede: [/size]


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## Oingo Boingo

Quote:


davidsh said:


> Ohh god, that is amazing!! What is your source?


 
   
  [size=medium]I am a big fan of various hi-res formats and top quality vinyl rips.  I have few setups, but my favorite source is MB P9X79 WS + JRiver MC18 + Weiss DAC202 (via FireWire).  The software part is sure very important. [/size]


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## dukeskd

The infamous "Demograf" amplifier by Gubchenko


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## sidrpm

I spy "THE Orpheus"


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## DefQon

Very impressive


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## antonyfirst

Subbed.


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## eric65

"Demograf" the best headphone electrostatic amplifier ever produced in the world, by Dmitry Gubchenko
   
   

  Dmitry Gubchenko
   
http://hifiphilosophy.com/?p=6192
   
  Eric
   
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/club-des-heureux-proprietaires-de-casques-stax-t29819561-4710.html


----------



## telecaster

Quote: 





oingo boingo said:


>


 
   
  This is headphone porn right there.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





oingo boingo said:


> [size=medium]After few years of headphones’ hobby it has turned down (or up)) mostly e-stats for me.  SR-Omega, HE90, 009 and 007 are now the core team.  As a side comment: the R10 bass light go as “dynamic phones with the great e-stat mids” for me (kind of)).  After few tries to find the best amp for e-stats it has ended up in DIY.  The idea was very modest and simple: to put together the best e-stat amp out there))  I was lucky enough to get a very experienced engineer/designer on my side.  Dmitry (the Man) has designed numerous pieces of audio equipment including amps for e-stats, but this time he needed to get back to his lab for a while…  The design is Dmitry’s know-how, but it’s based on classic pre-WW2 designs, sure taking into account the specifics of e-stats.  Three prototypes have been made and tested.  The designs of T2, HEV90, KGBH, WES and few other e-stat amps have been reviewed.  The current tubes include Philips Miniwatt AL4 (Telefunken AL4 as a second set), RCA JAN 5692 red base and CV1264 rectifier (in PU).  All the 4 e-stat phones have benefited a lot.  The original SR-Omegas and HE90 are my favorites, followed by 009. 007mk2 are the most amp-hungry, a lion to feed and roar, became a major basshead attraction))  To cut a long story short few pics are attached: [/size]


 
  ok!!!never in my life, i will have all this


----------



## preproman

Subscribed....


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Quote: 





telecaster said:


> This is headphone porn right there.


 
  Fixed the picture :

   




   
  Ali


----------



## alota

Quote: 





ali-pacha said:


> Fixed the picture :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  fantastic!!!!great joke


----------



## Oingo Boingo

Quote: 





eric65 said:


> "Demograf" the best headphone electrostatic amplifier ever produced in the world, by Dmitry Gubchenko
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  [size=medium]Eric, thanks for posting the links.  Piotr Ryka in fact wrote an article re this amp at his site www.hifiphilosophy.com[/size][size=medium] couple of months ago.  At the time the amp still had EL8 pentodes but few weeks ago it has been upgraded to AL4.  PU has been also upgraded to provide higher voltage required by AL4.  The PU now weights 32.5 kg (became 4.5 kg heavier compared to the previous version).  I have also sent the info re upgrade to Piotr, he may add this info to his article.  Here are some of Dmitry’s other designs and it’s a really small part of what he has done:  [/size][size=medium]www.audio-tube.ru[/size]


----------



## spritzer

The AL4 triode curves are very impressive so tell they are not used as pentodes?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I browsed through the drhead Stax thread a few weeks back and I like some of the crazy amps they are building.  We need to do something with extensive transformer coupling but we'd be sure to go the same route as ECP Audio went with the L-2.  The tubes loaded with current sources and biased so not really an old school design.


----------



## SBranson

When I move my O2mk1s around on my ears, I get a sound in the left channel that is like a "popping" sound, something that sounds like I've made a good seal and the air pressure is pushing on a membrane...  something like the sound of pushing on the center of the lid of a jar.  Sometimes when I turn my head and I hit the cable on my shoulder it does the same thing.
   
  I have heard it once or twice in the right side which makes me think it's the seal but it happens a lot more in the left.
   
  It doesn't occur if I sit still or don't move the headphones around though.  I don't want to open anything up if I don't have to but it makes me nervous that it could lead to a worse problem if I don't address it now.
   
  Any advice?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Oingo Boingo

[size=11pt]AL4 are used as pentodes.  Dmitry told me that he first had to find the way to cook them right. [size=11pt]The rest was piece of cake))[/size][/size]


----------



## spritzer

I don't get that though as the only point of using them as pentodes is more power.  Not needed here and they are much more linear as triodes.  Lovely smooth curves, almost as good as the EL34.  Still, this is what designing is all about...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  On a side note, holy hell the stock SRM-007tA(or II, doesn't matter which) is a crappy amp.  Just converted this one to 230V and it's horrible even driving what once was a Lambda.  Flat and lifeless and when pushed harder to try and eek some life out if it, it just falls on its face.


----------



## shipsupt

I've heard this said about the STAX amps in the past and Tyl mentions it in his IF article http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/listening-stax-sr-900-and-great-headphone-amplifiers-stax-srm-727tii .  What's not clear to me is why.
   
  Any chance you could give us a brief technical explanation of why they fall apart as the gain is raised?


----------



## spritzer

The tubes have a max voltage of 330V but are asked to work at 700V.  As you increase the volume and thus the voltage swing the sound becomes more compressed as the tubes are asked to deliver voltages they were never designed to work with.  That's why changing to 6S4A's works so well as they were designed to work at 600V but with 2000V peaks.


----------



## SBranson

I started this as it's own thread but for those subscribed I'll likely get the answer here.
   
   
 When I move my O2mk1s around on my ears, I get a sound in the left channel that is like a "popping" sound, something that sounds like I've made a good seal and the air pressure is pushing on a membrane...  something like the sound of pushing on the center of the lid of a jar.  Sometimes when I turn my head and I hit the cable on my shoulder it does the same thing.
  
 I have heard it once or twice in the right side which makes me think it's the seal but it happens a lot more in the left.
  
 It doesn't occur if I sit still or don't move the headphones around though.  I don't want to open anything up if I don't have to but it makes me nervous that it could lead to a worse problem if I don't address it now.
  
 Any advice?
  
 Thanks


----------



## duncan1

Just a  quick comment on AL4s-- In the UK they are side contact tubes[SC] they therefore need a special base which is a hole with contact clips at the sides of it.  Is there another base type with the same tube.?


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





spritzer said:


> On a side note, holy hell the stock SRM-007tA(or II, doesn't matter which) is a crappy amp.  Just converted this one to 230V and it's horrible even driving what once was a Lambda.  Flat and lifeless and when pushed harder to try and eek some life out if it, it just falls on its face.


 
  What about the 727?


----------



## milosz

OF POSSIBLE INTEREST  pair of STAX ELS F-83  electrostatic speakers has surfaced
   
http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649071668-stax_els_f83_electrosatstic_pair_rare/


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





sbranson said:


> I started this as it's own thread but for those subscribed I'll likely get the answer here.
> 
> 
> When I move my O2mk1s around on my ears, I get a sound in the left channel that is like a "popping" sound, something that sounds like I've made a good seal and the air pressure is pushing on a membrane...  something like the sound of pushing on the center of the lid of a jar.  Sometimes when I turn my head and I hit the cable on my shoulder it does the same thing.
> ...


 
   
  I've moved this to the Stax Thread, but you're just encountering the "Stax fart" caused by the seal and the membranes. It's quite normal.


----------



## dukeskd

@SBranson, have no fear that is the famous Stax fart.


----------



## Currawong

I found this guy's intro thread, which was interesting:
   



daniel kramnik said:


> Hello all!
> 
> My name is Daniel Kramnik, I'm a college student (working on my undergraduate in physics and EE, rising sophomore) interested in DIY audio and headphones. I've been building my own audio equipment for about a year now; it started with speakers and tube amps, but now I've become interested in headphones after listening to my friend's Stax SR-007 clones through his DIY Blue Hawaii amplifier. Wow, those completely blew away anything I had ever heard before!
> 
> Some audio projects I've done are a 13EM7 single-ended tube amplifier, back-loaded horn speakers based on the Fostex FE126En full range driver (the Madisound BK-12M kit), and a 12AT7-KT88 (or EL34) single-ended tube amplifier. I'm currently working on designing a wireless portable class D amplifier for electrostatic headphones.


----------



## n3rdling

His classmate posts in the diy stat thread sometimes, good stuff.


----------



## SBranson

The Stax fart!!! I'd never heard that name before... Hilarious!! 

Thanks!!!!!


----------



## jaycalgary

How scarry do you think the water damage on the Stax F83's. To me it looks like it leaked down near the bottom of the speakers into the transformer area quite a bit. I would consider buying them and having them sent to be rebuilt but I would hope they wont turn into a nightmare. Any input on this? Thanks Jay


----------



## Oingo Boingo

Quote:


spritzer said:


> I don't get that though as the only point of using them as pentodes is more power.  Not needed here and they are much more linear as triodes.


 
   
  [size=11pt]The trick is with the current in pentode mode – it should be reduced. [/size]


----------



## milosz

Quote: 





jaycalgary said:


> How scarry do you think the water damage on the Stax F83's. To me it looks like it leaked down near the bottom of the speakers into the transformer area quite a bit. I would consider buying them and having them sent to be rebuilt but I would hope they wont turn into a nightmare. Any input on this? Thanks Jay


 
  Beats me.  Send the guy a message, get more info.  Maybe ask Wayne Piquet ( http://quadsunlimited.us/ ) he may be able to rebuild them.
   
  Inside the bases are a couple of  transformers, some diodes, capacitors, etc. Probably that could all be cleaned of the water damage / diodes & caps replaced (they're standard parts, cheap)
   
  The panels themselves might be OK, or they might need rebuilding.  Now, maybe Stax would do that for you (or maybe not) - and if they would, the international shipping would be very costly and Stax would probably charge an arm and a leg. That's why I suggested Wayne Picquet -  he is an absolute master at rebuilding Quad ESL's, and I would think he could do a decent or possibly _great_ job on  these panels too -  unless they are very exotic.  Certainly I would think he could clean and refurbish the hi-voltage units in the bases.  
   
  Wayne is not cheap - but he would still likely be WAY less expensive than sending things off to Japan. [Note:  no connection between me and Wayne, except I had him rebuild some  panels for my Quad ESL-57's.)
   
  If you are real lucky, all you'll have to do is clean the innards of the bases, and refinish the wood-  you never know.
   
  [Note to moderator, I know these aren't headphones, but they *ARE*  Stax...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ]


----------



## spritzer

I'd speak to Kent about working on these as he's pretty much the only one who will touch the giant Lambdas.  I call them that as the drivers are very similar...
  Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> What about the 727?


 
   
  Stock it is very rolled off on top and the bass suffers quite a bit.  Stax tried to go all Ayre on the amp  (no feedback in the last stage) but it can't be done at these power levels. For the amp to be linear you need to burn a lot of juice. 
   
  The amp modified is quite good and the mods a lot simpler than what I need to do to the 007t to make it behave. 
   
  Quote: 





oingo boingo said:


> Quote:
> 
> [size=11pt]The trick is with the current in pentode mode – it should be reduced. [/size]


 
   
  Well yes but the tubes are not as linear when run as triodes.  Even when you reduce the current it won't make up for extra grids and how the tubes behave when you push the voltage.
   
  I don't think I ever asked for the old tubes but what is the B+ voltage for the AL4's?


----------



## Oingo Boingo

Quote:


spritzer said:


> Well yes but the tubes are not as linear when run as triodes.  Even when you reduce the current it won't make up for extra grids and how the tubes behave when you push the voltage.
> 
> I don't think I ever asked for the old tubes but what is the B+ voltage for the AL4's?


 
  [size=medium]As far as I recall it’s 260-265v between cathode and anode and with reduced anode current the tube does not exceed its max settings on dispersal power on anode.  In this mode the voltage on the anode can safely be higher than nominal.  Also, as a current amp pentode shows better resistance to parasitic capacitances (compared to triode), plus the sound of the pentode can get warmer and richer then triode, but it takes fine tuning to get the right result.  Dmitry while experimenting was also pushing pentodes up to breakdown voltage and getting very interesting results re sound and performance. [/size]


----------



## reiserFS

Did I make a good deal? First time I've used eSnipe and damn, it's awesome. http://www.ebay.de/itm/130972977111?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## eric65

Hello Oingo Boingo,
   
  Your Demograf amplifier is very impresive ; Dmitry did not skimp on the quality of the components used and the importance given to the powerful and sophisticated external power
   
  I have a question for you: have you had the opportunity to listen to the amplifier Headamp Blue Hawaii SE (BHSE) with headphones Stax SR-009?
  Otherwise, would you like rather have a very clear and detailed sound, or do you prefer, instead, a warmer sound, full, but perhaps less neutral and slightly less detailed?
   
  Thank you for your opinion.
   
  Eric
   
  PS : Ajr, in the French forum HCFR, told of you about the choice of Demograf and Orpheus HE 90 :
   
  " The arguments that each "people" would have a different "ear" appear numerous and well argued. It could be that the ear of our distinguished friend "casquophile" Russian is formatted to prefer this type of sound reproduction (ie a warm and full sound). And its system is build ​​accordingly.
  While a "French" ear may be would prefer more clarity and detailed sound. "
   
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/club-des-heureux-proprietaires-de-casques-stax-t29819561-4725.html


----------



## Oingo Boingo

Quote:
   


eric65 said:


> Hello Oingo Boingo,
> 
> Your Demograf amplifier is very impresive ; Dmitry did not skimp on the quality of the components used and the importance given to the powerful and sophisticated external power
> 
> ...


 
   
  [size=medium]Eric, bonjour!  Yes I have heard BHSE, I have also heard and/or owned few other top electrostatic amps.  BTW, there is a large and active headphones’ community in Russia and former USSR.  Here is our forum:[/size]
[size=medium]http://forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?act=idx[/size]
   
  [size=medium]009 + BHSE are a bit too bright to my taste and not warm and rich enough.  007 get better result imho with BHSE then 009 with this BHSE.  009 have certain advantages over 007 even with BHSE due to overall higher level of 009.  Since I own both 009 and 007 I do realize the need of different approach re amplification of these 2:  007 need more powerful and linear amp, whereas 009 benefit from bass extension and warmer sound.  The resolution of 009 is very high, at some point it may become over the top – we don’t want to turn 009 into an atomic microscope, do we?  In other words, the right amp for 009 may be too warm and bassy for 007; whereas the right amp for 007 may be too bright for 009.  Dmitry made a lot of effort to make the amp sound right for my taste (his own taste is actually close, which helped a lot).  The main approach to the sound was to make it rich & warm with high resolution (but not too much analytical) with high musicality, involvement and dynamics.  The side effect is that it’s hard to force myself to get the e-stats off my head ))  [/size]
   
  [size=medium]We were not dealing with “009 vs 007” dilemma that much, since a clear priority were Omegas, HE90 and 009.  In the end of the day 007 now sound too juicy with Demograf to my taste, but it helps when the record itself “lacks the body”.  I like the mid-bass and mids of 007 with Demograf, but the bass is a bit too much for me. I still own HEV90 (with very good tubes) so if I need, I can listen to 007 without bass extension.  Before start working on the amp, Dmitry has considered the KGBH design (along with T2, HEV90 and few other options).  In the end of the day the approach was as you can see.  Sure, the Demograf amp is not very simple to reproduce as a commercial one, the spare parts are not the easiest to find and not the cheapest ones, not even talking the weight, which became 4.5 kg heavier after AL4 upgrade (now it’s 32.5 kg of power unit plus 14 kg of main unit).  The amp also requires extensive fine tuning, but the result imo is definitely worth it.[/size]


----------



## complin

So you would not describe this at all as a neutral amplifier ie a straight wire with gain?
  Sounds like you have tried to get a vintage (30's/40's) tubey sound which can sound romantic to some but coloured to others? 
  Quote: 





oingo boingo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> [size=medium]Eric, bonjour!  Yes I have heard BHSE, I have also heard and/or owned few other top electrostatic amps.  BTW, there is a large and active headphones’ community in Russia and former USSR.  Here is our forum:[/size]
> ...


----------



## Oingo Boingo

Quote: 





complin said:


> So you would not describe this at all as a neutral amplifier ie a straight wire with gain?
> Sounds like you have tried to get a vintage (30's/40's) tubey sound which can sound romantic to some but coloured to others?


 
   
  [size=11pt]I don’t like bright sound, but I’m not a basshead either.  So the idea was to make it an old school “rich & warm” sound, but with good details and dynamics.  The bass of the amp is reasonably extended to first of all please HE90 and 009 which imo benefit from solid body (and Omegas too, but Omega’s bass is the best of those 3 anyway).  The instruments and voices sound very realistic, so the sound is warm but not colored – believe it or not.  I do know how colored for example some of AT closed cans may sound, so it’s definitely not the case. [/size]


----------



## spritzer

That amp was clearly designed for a certain sound and let's just say it's more HEV90 than BHSE.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





oingo boingo said:


> Quote:
> [size=medium]As far as I recall it’s 260-265v between cathode and anode and with reduced anode current the tube does not exceed its max settings on dispersal power on anode.  In this mode the voltage on the anode can safely be higher than nominal.  Also, as a current amp pentode shows better resistance to parasitic capacitances (compared to triode), plus the sound of the pentode can get warmer and richer then triode, but it takes fine tuning to get the right result.  Dmitry while experimenting was also pushing pentodes up to breakdown voltage and getting very interesting results re sound and performance. [/size]


 
   
  I assume that is the full voltage swing per tube then so 530Vp-p?  That is not a whole lot, less than the small Stax amps (252, 212 etc.).  Triodes have pretty much zero capacitance as they are though, 2-3pF is the norm which only the 2SC4686A can come close to match in transistors.  Sad to see that one go so soon...


----------



## complin

I really had some doubts about the 009's when I first heard them, but I came to realise they are so resolving they demand a source which is as neutral as possible, analogue like.
   
  Having lived with them for several months I realised it was not so much the 009's at fault but my source. Having now changed these the 009's offer true insight into the music in a way that perhaps only the HE90's can equal.
  I'm surprised you feel 009's need help from an amplifier in the bass as they are far easier to drive than the Omega or Omega 007's. The entry level SRM 252 does a half decent job driving the 009's. 
  The 007's have always provided great natural bass, but the 009's take this even further with much greater extension and with incredible texture I have never experienced before with any headphone, truly amazing. 
   
  Personally I dont like audio components which try to present a rose tinted view of the sound, or for that matter hyper detail like many of the so called super resolving DAC's. This is why so much of our recorded music these days does not sound good (too hot in the treble, compressed no dynamics) because engineers impose their own slant on oveaarll sound for whatever reason. Many of the greatest recordings were made very simply, whithout adulteration or high compression. 
   
  Quote: 





oingo boingo said:


> [size=11pt]I don’t like bright sound, but I’m not a basshead either.  So the idea was to make it an old school “rich & warm” sound, but with good details and dynamics.  The bass of the amp is reasonably extended to first of all please HE90 and 009 which imo benefit from solid body (and Omegas too, but Omega’s bass is the best of those 3 anyway).  The instruments and voices sound very realistic, so the sound is warm but not colored – believe it or not.  I do know how colored for example some of AT closed cans may sound, so it’s definitely not the case. [/size]


----------



## eric65

Quote: 





oingo boingo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> [size=medium]Eric, bonjour!  Yes I have heard BHSE, I have also heard and/or owned few other top electrostatic amps.  BTW, there is a large and active headphones’ community in Russia and former USSR.  Here is our forum:[/size]
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





oingo boingo said:


> [size=11pt]I don’t like bright sound, but I’m not a basshead either.  So the idea was to make it an old school “rich & warm” sound, but with good details and dynamics.  The bass of the amp is reasonably extended to first of all please HE90 and 009 which imo benefit from solid body (and Omegas too, but Omega’s bass is the best of those 3 anyway).  The instruments and voices sound very realistic, so the sound is warm but not colored – believe it or not.  I do know how colored for example some of AT closed cans may sound, so it’s definitely not the case. [/size]


 
   
  Большое спасибо  for your informations.
   
  They are also followed with interest in France


----------



## eric65

Quote: 





complin said:


> I really had some doubts about the 009's when I first heard them, but I came to realise they are so resolving they demand a source which is as neutral as possible, analogue like.
> 
> Having lived with them for several months I realised it was not so much the 009's at fault but my source. Having now changed these the 009's offer true insight into the music in a way that perhaps only the HE90's can equal.
> I'm surprised you feel 009's need help from an amplifier in the bass as they are far easier to drive than the Omega or Omega 007's. The entry level SRM 252 does a half decent job driving the 009's.
> ...


 
  Hello,
   
  With my combi Audiovalve RKV - Wee + 009, the level of bass is a bit stronger (more realistic) relative to SRM 727, with a little more roundness in the lower midrange while maintaining a good dynamic and a good level details ; In addition, the sound stage is wider. It is not unpleasant to listen to.
   My source (dac Audiomat Maestro Reference + D1 Drive, very High-end http://www.highendaudio.fr/convertisseurs/maestro-reference.html ) gives the sound a very analog rendering that is very suitable for very detailed headphone 009.
  The audiovalve RKV and adapter (Audio Energizeur Woo Wee) provides the richness and warmth to the sound while being very dynamic.
   
  Eric


----------



## NamelessPFG

All right, I've got an SRM-T1 now (had it since Friday), and I've tried to dig up as much info as I can, though search engines are giving me a lot of useless results.
   
  Is there anything in particular I'd need to know about it? As far as I can tell, it sounds perfectly fine (no hum or hiss, no imbalance), but this being Head-Fi and all, people like to go the extra mile and mod these Stax amps.
   
  -The rebiasing procedure has been posted a few times here and elsewhere. I'll need to refer to this if changing tubes or just want to ensure the amp's working as intended.
  -A full electrolytic capacitor replacement for amps that old is commonly advised, but what caps should be used in their place?
  -The T1 can be modified to accept ECC99 tubes and basically become an SRM-600 as a result, but what's the benefit of this over the stock 6GC7s? Is it enough of an upgrade that it'll suddenly make this thing SR-007-worthy, or will that simply not happen until getting into KGSSHV and BHSE territory?


----------



## milosz

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> -A full electrolytic capacitor replacement for amps that old is commonly advised, but what caps should be used in their place?


 
   
  I don't know that just replacing ALL electrolytics is necessary. Just replace the bad ones -  i.e., test them for capacitance, leakage and ESR. 
   
  SOME electrolytics can be replaced with film caps, but most can't due to space limits (film caps are much larger than electrolytics for a given value) - I have been able to hear the difference between a film cap and an electrolytic that is directly in the audio path - a coupling capacitor- and I decided the film cap sounded cleaner in the highs (In a double blind test) - but I don't know that there are any electrolytic coupling caps in the SRM-T1 amp, Spritzer would know that.  If there are coupling / DC blocking caps in the signal path, it might well be worth the effort to replace them with film or vintage PIO caps like Sprague Vitamin-Q caps - if you can get the needed values on the NOS market.
   
  Certainly there will be filter caps in the power supply; I think using all film caps as filters in a power supply, while heroic, may not actually make anything sound better.  This is just an opinion, I've not done any testing of this.
   
  Also there will likely be electrolytic bypass caps here and there. Replacing electrolytic bypass caps with film caps may also be a lot of trouble and expense for not so much gain in sound.
   
  If you find any electrolytic caps that are more than 20% off value, are leaking DC through them, or have high ESR, those caps you absolutely should replace. But which brand to use?
   
  There's lots of caps on the market, some of which have fans that ascribe to them near magical powers.  The much vaunted Black Gate caps, no longer made, are said by some to "sound best." Probably they sound better and better as they become harder and harder to get.... Sometimes you can find Black Gates in various markets. There are also various other "wonder caps" from Mundorf, Jensen, F&T and others.  These are expensive and maybe they are better, who knows.  
   
  Quite a few audio DIY'er seem to like the Elna Silmic, Elna Silmic II and Elna Cerafine capacitors, which are not terribly expensive and are said to be "audio grade" somehow -  you can buy those Elna caps at Digikey, Mouser, Newark and others.  Many DIY-ers  scoff at all this capacitor nonsense and just use a low cost but high quality part, like the Panasonic FM series.  I tend to use Elna Silmic and Cerafine caps in things I build, they are not much more expensive than Panasonic, and one can hope they somehow impart sonic improvements.....


----------



## davidsh

^Very fine post, indeed. I thank you, will save it for later reference.
   
  Do you really have to desolder that caps to test them? Seems like a hassle. Also, what is the cheapest multimeter that you can recommend for doing such things as measuring caps, general use, measuring low numbers as the voltage/amperage going through dynamic headphones, and of course being fairly future proof?


----------



## DefQon

For 202/207 owners, what's a good music to let these show it's best?


----------



## spritzer

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> All right, I've got an SRM-T1 now (had it since Friday), and I've tried to dig up as much info as I can, though search engines are giving me a lot of useless results.
> 
> Is there anything in particular I'd need to know about it? As far as I can tell, it sounds perfectly fine (no hum or hiss, no imbalance), but this being Head-Fi and all, people like to go the extra mile and mod these Stax amps.
> 
> ...


 
   
  There are no caps in the signal path in this Stax amp and just replace the electrolytic with what ever fits.  Modern caps are much smaller though so you can fit a larger capacitance in the same spot. 
   
  It's always a good idea to check the biasing as amps drift with time, especially tube amps. 
   
  The ECC99 can handle more voltage and power than the 6CG7.  It makes the amp behave better at higher volume levels but it is not some magic bullet.


----------



## Oingo Boingo

Quote: 





spritzer said:


> I assume that is the full voltage swing per tube then so 530Vp-p?


 
   
  [size=medium]The above doesn’t take into account the DIY auto-transformers which almost double the swing (can be seen on previous pics).  The dynamics are also raised by extended power supply.  If there would have been any concerns re voltage swing, we could easily use the tubes with e.g. 2000V on anode like the ones on the pic (it’s one of Dmitry’s recent amps, the PU comes separate):  [/size]
   
  [size=medium][/size]
   
  [size=medium] [/size]


----------



## StubKidDtd2512

Well I knew about head-fi almost 2 years ago but I've just officially created my first account so firstly I want to say Hello to all.
   
  I've been doing some research about Stax's headphones (especially about the 009s) and their amps but I couldn't really find any useful information to me, so please help me on this. Currently I'm using the 009s with the Benchmark DAC2 HCG and the SRM-323s. While I do enjoy its midrange so much, I still want a little bit more bass slam. I'm not an engineer but I guess this is because the SRM-323s cant provide enough power for the 009s right? So I've been struggling to find out which current Stax amp would be the best for my taste to use with the 009s besides others options like KGSSHV or LL, because I guess my room will be too hot and cramped for a tube amp like the BHSE or WES.
   
  So now there are two paths that I can choose:
   
  1. Go with a higher-tier Stax amp like the 727 or 007t. After reading many impressions and reviews about these 2 amps I've come to conclusion that the 727 may be better for me. However here is the problem. Spritzer says that while the stock 727 is more powerful than the 323S, it's not as neutral as the 323S because of its rolled off treble and boosted bass. This can be fixed by doing some mods though. So the questions are: Would the treble be sacrificed too much and would the bass be louder than the 323S say only about 3 dB while still maintaining the 323S' speed if I went with the stock 727? Or if I wanted to have it modded, would it just become a "higher quality" 323S or not?
   
  2. Spend every last dollar of my savings on the KGSSHV. I have an acquaintance who has been building a lot of hi-end headphone amps included my balance B22 so I can ask him to build a KGSSHV for me. Of course I know that it is obviously superior to those 2 Stax amps above; however is it truly worth the extra money or not? I just want to save as much money as I could since currently I'm just a college student. My favorite setup is DAC2 HCG ---> balanced B22 ----> HD800 and this hurt my wallet a bit too much. Right now I still wonder if buying the 009s was a bad idea after all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  3. Well this may be not actually an option; however I did read somewhere that Stax is currently working on an exclusive amp for the 009s. Should I just wait until it comes out? Just because I still prefer a commercial amp to a DIYed one, it may create a sort of hard-to-explain feeling you know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks in advance and sorry for my English.


----------



## wink

I think any new Stax amp for the 009 would be a heap more expensive than a KGSSHV or even a BHSE.....


----------



## eric65

Hello Stubkid, we will compare the 7 and 8 September, with Frederick, Peter and me, four amplifiers on the headphone Stax SR-009 : amplifiers SRM 727, SRM 007t2;  Eddie Curent Electra and combi Audiovalve RKV + Audio energizeur Woo Wee.
  We will tell you soon who will seem for us the best or have the best synergy with the Stax 009 listening.
   
  In all cases, these amplifiers should go further than the SRM 323 already listened and compared against all these amplifiers (by Peter and Frederic)
   
  Eric
   
  PS: these comparisons amplifiers will be made in ​​blind test on 7 and 8 September, following a rigorous testing protocol. 
  The test results will be published during September, in first in the French forum HCFR on Stax, at this link :
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/club-des-heureux-proprietaires-de-casques-stax-t29819561-4740.html


----------



## Trance_Gott

I already have a SR307 in combination with SRM1 MK2. Now I have a chance to buy a Lambda Pro or 404LE. Is it worth to upgrade from SR307? What can Lambda Pro or 404LE better as my SR307?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Hi Stax addicts,
   
  I've a problem on my SR-X/mk3 (normal bias) since at least 10 years...never tried to fix it, since I regularly use my SR-5 out of the same SRD-7/SB transformer.
  I've a lot of crackles at low level, on both sides, and it's getting worst when touching the cable.
  Here is a sample (low quality, using my phone) : 
   
http://alipacha.free.fr/SR-X_Mk3_Problem.mp3
   
  Very noticeable at 00:13
  I've very carefully opened one of the driver, there's no hole(s) in there. Same behavior when I re-assemble it.
  It seems to come from the cable, as a guy on another forum has the same issue withe same cans, fixed by re-cabling. And I don't want to touch the cooper of the cable inside the earspeaker when running.
   
  Did anyone meet this issue ?
   
  Thxx
   
  Ali


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





ali-pacha said:


> Hi Stax addicts,
> 
> I've a problem on my SR-X/mk3 (normal bias) since at least 10 years...never tried to fix it, since I regularly use my SR-5 out of the same SRD-7/SB transformer.
> I've a lot of crackles at low level, on both sides, and it's getting worst when touching the cable.
> ...


 
  I had this same problem with my old Lambda Pro's where there is intermittent crackling and no sound if I wiggled a particular area of the cable. Replaced the cable and it was fine.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





defqon said:


> For 202/207 owners, what's a good music to let these show it's best?


 
  Hmmm, they let you back in the Stax thread??? LOL (j/k)
   
  With my 202 rig Infected Mushroom - "Becoming Insane" does the trick for me.
  I also like Pink Floyd - "Wish you Were Here".
  Sounds awesome, although the vocals suffer a bit due to the 202's flawed mids.


----------



## DefQon

livewire said:


> Hmmm, they let you back in the Stax thread??? LOL (j/k)
> 
> With my 202 rig Infected Mushroom - "Becoming Insane" does the trick for me.
> I also like Pink Floyd - "Wish you Were Here".
> Sounds awesome, although the vocals suffer a bit due to the 202's flawed mids.




What do you mean? I was never banned from the Stax thread.

Anywho thanks.


----------



## livewire

Re: 202 sounding it's best: (classical sound with synthesizer overtones )  Vangelis - Main Theme From "Missing" 
   
  And another Vangelis classic with a Japanese theme: "The Tao Of Love". 
   
  Check em out on youtube, although CD quality / FLAC sounds superb.


----------



## oogabooga

Antonyfirst, any word on those photos and details of the mods? Also, how do you find the sound signature after a few weeks more of listening? Any changes?  Apologies if you've posted this elsewhere already.
   
   
  Quote: 





antonyfirst said:


> So, I have modified my SRM-727A after KG's advice. I had formerly modded the amp with the "spritzer" mod (by changing local feedback to global), but Kevin helped me making the modification much more radical.
> Basically, we fixed his 727 schematic together (I provided pictures eheheh) in order to have a complete idea of how to overhaul the output stage and make it better.
> He gave me instructions to replace 10 transistors on the board a few resistors with eight pieces of 2sc4686a (or 2sc4686) transistors (the same as the KGSSHV) and some shorts. I will post the instructions here after Kevin's permission.
> 
> ...


----------



## StubKidDtd2512

Thanks for your replies!
  Quote: 





wink said:


> I think any new Stax amp for the 009 would be a heap more expensive than a KGSSHV or even a BHSE.....


 
  ... that's why I said it's not really an option for me to consider. I'm afraid that even funding for a BHSE is impossible for at least 3 years from now...
   


eric65 said:


> Hello Stubkid, we will compare the 7 and 8 September, with Frederick, Peter and me, four amplifiers on the headphone Stax SR-009 : amplifiers SRM 727, SRM 007t2;  Eddie Curent Electra and combi Audiovalve RKV + Audio energizeur Woo Wee.
> We will tell you soon who will seem for us the best or have the best synergy with the Stax 009 listening.
> 
> In all cases, these amplifiers should go further than the SRM 323 already listened and compared against all these amplifiers (by Peter and Frederic)
> ...


 
  Hello Eric, I read about this in the amps for the 009 thread a few days ago and I'm really looking forward to hearing the result. However it would be nice if that 727 was a modded one.


----------



## spritzer

Quote: 





oingo boingo said:


> [size=medium]The above doesn’t take into account the DIY auto-transformers which almost double the swing (can be seen on previous pics).  The dynamics are also raised by extended power supply.  If there would have been any concerns re voltage swing, we could easily use the tubes with e.g. 2000V on anode like the ones on the pic (it’s one of Dmitry’s recent amps, the PU comes separate):  [/size]
> 
> [size=medium][/size]
> 
> [size=medium] [/size]


 
   
  The problem here and the main reason why something like the KGSSHV/T2 can swing about 2000Vp-p is to make sure the amp never has to swing at max level.  That's where it is most unlinear and a lot of distortion occurs. 
   
  Sennheiser had to learn this the hard way, well their customers did as so many HEV90 as basically defective.  The first amps can just muster about 500Vp-p butt ended at 1200Vp-p for the last version.  Just internal changes and same tubes used all along.


----------



## antonyfirst

Hey oogabooga,
   
  I can post pictures I made, anyway, for step by step instructions, send me a PM. Making them public might led to us losing control on how many people would do the mods, and too many potential support requests towards our headfi Stax experts. 
   
  Cheers
  Tony


----------



## oogabooga

Thanks Tony - sounds good to me. I take it you're still enjoying the amp!  Also, would I be correct in assuming that you've somehow made a "normal bias" output on the KGSS-A to drive your Lambdas?


----------



## antonyfirst

Yes, I did also the normal bias modification. That mod can be found around. I won't be providing these because I would spend too much time gathering something that is already around. I am not saying so to come across as rude but I really don't have much time to post. 

 But anyway, the Lambda sound great. In a few days I will also be lent Sigma nb, and I expect a great improvement compared to when I have heard them on a normal bias SRM1. 

 Also, before thinking to modify the 727A to make it a 'bettered KGSS' (I like to call it KGSS-A), consider you need to install 8 pieces of 2sc4686 (or 2sc4686a) chips, plus a few spares, just in case. 
 I don't think it will ever work with IXTP01N100D (a fellow has asked me about it), but if I am wrong, someone more tech-savvy than me could chime in. If I am not mistaken, the IXTP01N100D is for the smd version of the KGSSHV. 

 The 2sc4686 / 2sc4686a are out of production, but they can still be found. I wouldn't know where, unfortunately, but some members might know. 

 The amplifier sounds great, I am still enjoying it. I love it, it's very transparent and has good air. The Omega 2 still have a 'layer' of butter that's inherent to them, but I think only the BHSE would take that away, plus I am using warm sources (Metrum Hex, Museatex Idat44-M). 
 But it's more airy, controlled and pleasant than both the stock form and the feedback modded one. 
 The amp runs close to cold even after hours of usage, which is also lovely. Maybe I would prefer a super-modded 007t for the SR-009, just because of the tubes, if Spritzer ever decides to describe the current source modification on it. In any case, this is not to say that the KGSS-A is bright or anything: it's extremely fluid and smooth with both the Lambda and the O2. With the latter, provided the right source, bass can be thunderous, without depth limits.

 Another nice test comes from hearing the Trenody for the Victims of Hiroshima (Penderecki), at full volume, with the Omega 2. It's quite an experience. Hyper resolving, emotional, extremely fluid at full volume without any feeling of strain. Hope it helps.


----------



## complin

What flawed mids with the 202's?
   
  The Stax sweet spot has always been the mid range!
   
  Quote: 





livewire said:


> Hmmm, they let you back in the Stax thread??? LOL (j/k)
> 
> With my 202 rig Infected Mushroom - "Becoming Insane" does the trick for me.
> I also like Pink Floyd - "Wish you Were Here".
> Sounds awesome, although the vocals suffer a bit due to the 202's flawed mids.


----------



## oogabooga

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!  Looking forward to hearing your comments on the Sigma/KGSS-A.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





complin said:


> What flawed mids with the 202's?
> 
> The Stax sweet spot has always been the mid range!


 
   
  Well with my set, I find the highs to be excellent, the lows to be acceptable and the mids to be so-so.
  My take is with instruments the mids are ok, with lower octave male vocals it sucks. Higher female vocals are acceptable.
  Just my perceptions, I've upgraded to a SR-407 and the mids are signifigantly better. Not exemplarary tho....


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





complin said:


> What flawed mids with the 202's?
> 
> The Stax sweet spot has always been the mid range!


 
   
  In my experience, they were similar flaws to the HE-400. A bit recessed, and there's some kind of artificial raspy texture over voices that shouldn't be there.
   
  It's especially obvious if you've listened to the Normal bias SR-Lambda before.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> In my experience, they were similar flaws to the HE-400. A bit recessed, and there's some kind of artificial raspy texture over voices that shouldn't be there.
> 
> It's especially obvious if you've listened to the Normal bias SR-Lambda before.


 
   
  Bingo!


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> In my experience, they were similar flaws to the HE-400. A bit recessed, and* there's some kind of artificial raspy texture* over voices that shouldn't be there.
> 
> It's especially obvious if you've listened to the Normal bias SR-Lambda before.


 
   
  This IMO is what I hear on the 207's and probably the headphone's biggest weak point... I really love the balance of the headphone otherwise, but for certain songs with up close vocals, it can be quite evident.  Of course, for some other songs, it may enhance the experience.
   
  From what I've been reading, it seems like many Lambda models share this characteristic.. are there any Lambda models which doesn't have that slight bit of that raspy/shouty vocalmidrange peak?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Can I use a Lambda headband with SR-X/Mk3 cans ? I've seen such a mutant down there with a Gamma headband (and Omega 2 pads) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Ali


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





ali-pacha said:


> Can I use a Lambda headband with SR-X/Mk3 cans ? I've seen such a mutant down there with a Gamma headband (and Omega 2 pads)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Incompatible unless you do some mods.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





k_19 said:


> From what I've been reading, it seems like many Lambda models share this characteristic.. are there any Lambda models which doesn't have that slight bit of that raspy/shouty vocalmidrange peak?


 
   
  LNS.


----------



## eric65

Hi, here is an estimate of the price of high-end Russian electrostatic amplifier, very exclusive and without concessions, the "Demograf" amplifier: 25,000 to 50,000 Euros.
   
   

  Link : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/club-des-heureux-proprietaires-de-casques-stax-t29819561-4740.html


----------



## gilency

The price is ridiculous.
 Would like to see the insides though.

That case is so pitifully amateurish.
Nothing agains DIY you understand.


----------



## DefQon

25,000 - 50,000 euros? What?


----------



## eric65

Quote: 





eric65 said:


> Hi, here is an estimate of the price of high-end Russian electrostatic amplifier, very exclusive and without concessions, the "Demograf" amplifier: 25,000 to 50,000 Euros.
> 
> 
> 
> Link : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/club-des-heureux-proprietaires-de-casques-stax-t29819561-4740.html


 
   
  Quote: 





gilency said:


> The price is ridiculous.
> *Would like to see the insides though.*
> 
> That case is so pitifully amateurish.
> Nothing agains DIY you understand.


 
   
   Here : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/club-des-heureux-proprietaires-de-casques-stax-t29819561-4710.html


----------



## jjinh

Quote: 





eric65 said:


> Hi, here is an estimate of the price of high-end Russian electrostatic amplifier, very exclusive and without concessions, the "Demograf" amplifier:* 25,000 to 50,000 Euros.*


----------



## eric65

Quote: 





jjinh said:


>


 
  This is an approximation or 100,000 to 200,000 Polish zloty (Total 1 Polish Zloty = 0.235 euro)
  http://hifiphilosophy.com/?p=7503
  http://hifiphilosophy.com/?p=6192
   
  (NB: The system Orpheus HEV 90 is currently estimated at 16,000 U.S. dollars
  The Demograf was built to be better than the Orpheus.
  Nothing shocking for that price: the price of supremacy and exclusivity).
   
   

  Eric


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





eric65 said:


> Nothing shocking for that price: the price of supremacy and exclusivity).


 
  Or the exorbitant price charged for bunch of boutique parts that contribute almost zilch to the circuit (just for the sake of e-peen comparison) and the large costs of labor to which something that doesn't even look professionally built or made for the asking said price?
   
  Exclusivity - yes
  Supremacy - no
   
  Enough ranting from me.


----------



## Oingo Boingo

Eric, it's not that expensive)) the parts can be seen on the pics, the prices are known, it' not really hard to calculate. The input attenuation transformers (which don't have name on) are Stevens & Billington TX102 mk3-I. The Hashimoto interstate transformers are 107A (are used as phase inverters for 6SN7). The wiring is done with top ones but it's not too expensive. The research was not included since it basically was a combination of what Dmitry has done before and few new things which were fun for a professional to dig into. We we also considering DIY T2 or KGBH on top components + advanced power supply and discussed those a lot. Dmitry came to a conclusion and explained it to my why he would like to to build it otherwise, since T2 and KGBH use different approach, with all my respect, it's just different schools. The e-stats are indeed a very special job for the amps, Dmitry was experimented a lot with tubes, voltage, swing, power supply and other components. I am very happy with the way it sounds, it's exactly the sound I was looking for, hope this also counts)) We have fellows with BHSE and KGBH in Moscow, I guess it would be a good idea to have a blind test (these guys enjoy their setups too, so we may have a comparative one))


----------



## Oingo Boingo

Hmm... Reading the comment above I would rather think twice before sharing anything in such a friendly environment))


----------



## davidsh

Welcome to the Stax thread on head-fi.


----------



## DefQon

Isn't the KGBH = BH?


----------



## sidrpm

May I suggest that you do NOT think twice about sharing but only think about completely ignoring "such friendly comments".
   
  Thanks for sharing the pics and information. I certainly look forward to more. Cheers.


----------



## eric65

Quote: 





oingo boingo said:


> Eric, it's not that expensive)) the parts can be seen on the pics, the prices are known, it' not really hard to calculate. The input attenuation transformers (which don't have name on) are Stevens & Billington TX102 mk3-I. The Hashimoto interstate transformers are 107A (are used as phase inverters for 6SN7). The wiring is done with top ones but it's not too expensive. The research was not included since it basically was a combination of what Dmitry has done before and few new things which were fun for a professional to dig into. We we also considering DIY T2 or KGBH on top components + advanced power supply and discussed those a lot. Dmitry came to a conclusion and explained it to my why he would like to to build it otherwise, since T2 and KGBH use different approach, with all my respect, it's just different schools. The e-stats are indeed a very special job for the amps, Dmitry was experimented a lot with tubes, voltage, swing, power supply and other components. I am very happy with the way it sounds, it's exactly the sound I was looking for, hope this also counts)) *We have fellows with BHSE and KGBH in Moscow, I guess it would be a good idea to have a blind test (these guys enjoy their setups too, so we may have a comparative one))*


 
   
  Hello,
   
  Thank you for these supplement information about the impressive amplifier Demograf.
   
  Indeed, it would be a great idea to make a blind confrontation of the famous U.S. BHSE amplifier versus the famous Russian Demograf amplifier. 
  Confrontation done in blind.
  In the french forum HCFR on Stax, we now attach great importance to the blind tests for an objective amplifier comparison .
   
  Eric


----------



## johnwmclean

defqon said:


> Isn't the KGBH = BH?




Pint too many of the good stuff?


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





johnwmclean said:


> Pint too many of the good stuff?


 
  Yeah I wouldn't mind a nice Pint of James Boag right now. 
   
  That said @eric, have you tried any other Stax headphones besides the 007 and 009's off the Wee/RKV amplifier?


----------



## soren_brix

[size=10pt][/size]
   
   
  [size=10pt]recently bought a pair of 404/Sig having a small imbalance issue.[/size]
  [size=10pt]Turned out that the left speaker didn't say much at all; in fact one had to listen to the left channel only to determine that it produced any sound at all.[/size]
  [size=10pt]Following Spritzers advice on fixing imbalance issues: playing music continuosly for a couple of weeks, didn't help.[/size]
  [size=10pt]I had it plug'd in for almost three weeks without any significant improvement.[/size]
  [size=10pt]Decided to take a closer look at the ‘faulty’ driver. [/size]
  [size=10pt]To me it looks like the drivers two protection filter was removed and poorly applied again … also there seems to be a gap between the driver and the baffle …[/size]
  [size=10pt]…any suggestions?[/size]


----------



## eric65

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Yeah I wouldn't mind a nice Pint of James Boag right now.
> 
> *That said @eric, have you tried any other Stax headphones besides the 007 and 009's off the Wee/RKV amplifier? *


 
   
  Yes,
   
  I sometimes use a Sennheiser HD 600 and HD 650 (NB : I prefer the HD 600 on the RKV) 
   
  Otherwise, briefly a Stax SR 507: the sound stage is more tight than the 007 and the 009, the tone is quite similar to that of 009.
   
  My current favorite combination is the 009 with  the RKV-Wee: good synergy together; great soundstage ; sound a little warm and rich getting closer to what I want. But hey, the SRM 727 is not bad too (a little more detailed, but also a little colder than RKV-Wee)
   
  Eric


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





eric65 said:


> Yes,
> 
> I sometimes use a Sennheiser HD 600 and HD 650 (NB : I prefer the HD 600 on the RKV)
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for that. I've read that Jack has made a number of revisional and aesthetic changes to the Wee over the past few years, so hopefully when I do decide to get them they are the same as what they are now. Surprisingly by looking at some other user's setup pictures, the Wee is quite big, at least bigger than the Stax energizers.


----------



## complin

Compared to what?
  Other headphones?
  A live performance vs recorded track you know?
  Quote: 





livewire said:


> Well with my set, I find the highs to be excellent, the lows to be acceptable and the mids to be so-so.
> My take is with instruments the mids are ok, with lower octave male vocals it sucks. Higher female vocals are acceptable.
> Just my perceptions, I've upgraded to a SR-407 and the mids are signifigantly better. Not exemplarary tho....


----------



## complin

Suggest you compare to one of the older Lmabda's like the 202?
   
  Quote: 





k_19 said:


> This IMO is what I hear on the 207's and probably the headphone's biggest weak point... I really love the balance of the headphone otherwise, but for certain songs with up close vocals, it can be quite evident.  Of course, for some other songs, it may enhance the experience.
> 
> From what I've been reading, it seems like many Lambda models share this characteristic.. are there any Lambda models which doesn't have that slight bit of that raspy/shouty vocalmidrange peak?


----------



## complin

Well on the russian web site there is a claim that the development of this runs into 100's of thousands of $$$$$$$?
   
  I really do hope we are not heading into mikhail rotenberg singlepower territory again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





eric65 said:


> Hi, here is an estimate of the price of high-end Russian electrostatic amplifier, very exclusive and without concessions, the "Demograf" amplifier: 25,000 to 50,000 Euros.
> 
> 
> 
> Link : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/club-des-heureux-proprietaires-de-casques-stax-t29819561-4740.html


----------



## eric65

Quote: 





complin said:


> Well on the russian web site there is a claim that the development of this runs into 100's of thousands of $$$$$$$?
> 
> I really do hope we are not heading into mikhail rotenberg singlepower territory again


 
   
  Thank you to not be confused the Polish language  with Russian,
   
  The website is Polish, and assertions of price data are greatly exaggerated.
   
  Oingo Boingo himself has said earlier that the advertised price was excessive.
   
  For the record, the Demograf manufactured by Dmitry aims to go further than the $ 16,000 amp Orpheus HEV90.
   
  Simply!
   
   
  http://hifiphilosophy.com/?p=6192
  http://hifiphilosophy.com/?p=7503
   
  Eric


----------



## spritzer

There are some shades of Mikhail in that build and the build quality is pretty bad (zip ties to hold a transformer... seriously??) and the price is nowhere near 50K€.  Pointing to the HEV90 as an example of expensive things is just idiotic as Sennheiser are the kings of charging way too much.  I also don't think anybody with any sense would call the HEV90 a good amp. 
   
  A better case would be the Single Power ES-2 which cost 20000$ and was worth about 1000$.  That's the cost of the boxes, the rest was all thrown away when they were rebuilt to work properly. 
  Quote: 





defqon said:


> Isn't the KGBH = BH?


 
   
  It is but there is a commercial version of the Blue Hawaii made in Russia by Flux Lab.  I posted over there about it... 
   
  I do have a lot of concerns about the Russian version though as I highly doubt it is stable without the comp caps in place.  I'm also not sure if they are actually running it at full power as the boards never accommodated that. 
   
  Quote: 





soren_brix said:


> [size=10pt][/size]
> 
> 
> [size=10pt]recently bought a pair of 404/Sig having a small imbalance issue.[/size]
> ...


 
   
  If just the dust covers were removed then you shouldn't have imbalance issues but why on earth were the covers removed, that is the bigger question.  Now there is pretty much zero chance that the drivers are free of dust so personally I'd replace them.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





complin said:


> Compared to what?
> *Other headphones*?
> A live performance vs recorded track you know?


 
  I think I said it right there in the last post you quoted. (SR-407)
  Also with the ESP-950 (using same source and amp)
  My observations are based on other stats that I own.
  FWIW I have listened to most of the Stax flagships built in the last thirty five years.


----------



## soren_brix

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *spritzer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Originally Poster by soren_brix
> 
> 
> ...


 
  According to the seller, the driver had an imbalance problem. He claims to have removed only the protection filters just to inspect the driver for any hair/dust that might have caused the imbalance ...and reapplied the protectionfilters and everything looked neat and fine ...


----------



## eric65

Hello,
   
  The Russians know the beautiful music, know how produce that beautiful music, and enjoy the beautiful headphone and beautiful amps to play this beautiful music, like the Americans and French.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
http://www.bolshoirussia.com/
   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hYIN2N7-nI&feature=player_Embedded
   
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/club-des-heureux-proprietaires-de-casques-stax-t29819561-4770.html
   
  Eric


----------



## milosz

Quote: 





davidsh said:


> Do you really have to desolder that caps to test them? Seems like a hassle. Also, what is the cheapest multimeter that you can recommend for doing such things as measuring caps, general use, measuring low numbers as the voltage/amperage going through dynamic headphones, and of course being fairly future proof?


 
   
  You can sometimes test caps in-circuit, but it depends on the circuit - for example if a bunch of caps are wired in parallel it is not possible to test just one...
   
  Cap tester -  see  http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_esr70.html  the Atlas ESR-70 is a good basic unit.
   
  For a multimeter, DVM, there are a bunch of decent ones out there.  The Velleman DVM850BL is a decent unit, you can get these for around $15.  Please be advised these are only usable / safe up to 600 volts DC
   
  The Fluke 115 is a great pro-quality multimeter.  For about $130~$150  you get a meter that measures capacitance as well as the usual volts / ohms / milliamps.


----------



## davidsh

Thanks for your help. It seems fairly expensive, I will loan equipment from my neighbour when I need it (he is former electrician)


----------



## Piotr Ryka

There is not only the Demograf on electrostatic market. I've heard two other very interesting things – Dubiel Accoustic Euridice and LRT.
  Euridice is complete tube amplifier, generally better for SR-007 than any Stax amplifier besides SRM-T2;
  LRT is very sophisticated version of old Stax "adapter for earspeakers" with which and my ASL Twin-Head preamplifier paired with Restek Extent dual mono amplifier Stax SR-009 sounded better than with Orpheus or T2.
   

   
  Euridice
   
   
   

   
  LRT
   
   

   
  ASL Twin-Head and Restek Extent with Accuphase DP-700


----------



## Chris J

davidsh said:


> Thanks for your help. It seems fairly expensive, I will loan equipment from my neighbour when I need it (he is former electrician)




Your electrician neighbour probably doesn't own a capacitance meter.
Electricians don't run around measuring capacitance!
They don't understand audiophiles.......


----------



## alota

Quote: 





piotr ryka said:


> LRT


 
  please, you´ve a link for this amplifier?


----------



## AnakChan

Quote: 





alota said:


> please, you´ve a link for this amplifier?


 
   
  More info here :-

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/615186/stax-transformer-upgrade/30#post_8594781


----------



## davidsh

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I asked him yesterday. He has got a fairly expensive multimeter that can measure caps. Dunno if it goes further than just the capacitance value.


----------



## spritzer

The LL1630 is a nice transformer for the job for something off the shelf.  I do wonder why anybody would use the LL9202 let alone the AM version.   Wholly unsuitable for this role. 
  Quote: 





piotr ryka said:


> There is not only the Demograf on electrostatic market. I've heard two other very interesting things – Dubiel Accoustic Euridice and LRT.
> Euridice is complete tube amplifier, generally better for SR-007 than any Stax amplifier besides SRM-T2;
> LRT is very sophisticated version of old Stax "adapter for earspeakers" with which and my ASL Twin-Head preamplifier paired with Restek Extent dual mono amplifier Stax SR-009 sounded better than with Orpheus or T2.
> 
> ...


 
   
  This better than the T2?  You do know its the same crappy circuit as the King Sound M-20 but with even worse tubes?  Just about the cheapest way to drive Stax that is possible.


----------



## wink

Bunfight at sixty paces........


----------



## Piotr Ryka

Quote: 





spritzer said:


> The LL1630 is a nice transformer for the job for something off the shelf.  I do wonder why anybody would use the LL9202 let alone the AM version.   Wholly unsuitable for this role.
> 
> This better than the T2?  You do know its the same crappy circuit as the King Sound M-20 but with even worse tubes?  Just about the cheapest way to drive Stax that is possible.


 
   
  Where I wrote that Euridice is better than T2? Can you read? I've wrote that LRT with ASL and Restek is better for SR-009.


----------



## Chris J

davidsh said:


> I asked him yesterday. He has got a fairly expensive multimeter that can measure caps. Dunno if it goes further than just the capacitance value.



 
 I'm not a big fan of electricians. It was almost impossible to get one to pull a pair of dedicated power lines for my stereo. He didn't care and didn't wanna know..................


----------



## complin

Are you referring to Wikors T2 here?
   
  Quote: 





piotr ryka said:


> Where I wrote that Euridice is better than T2? Can you read? I've wrote that LRT with ASL and Restek is better for SR-009.


----------



## blubliss

Quote: 





piotr ryka said:


> Where I wrote that Euridice is better than T2? Can you read? I've wrote that LRT with ASL and Restek is better for SR-009.


 
  Yes, now we all need three amps to drive the 009 properly...


----------



## telecaster

Shoot shoot! Don't talk.


----------



## telecaster

Quote: 





piotr ryka said:


> LRT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Looks like the Poland Stax thread have some fun!
   
  Beautiful!!!!


----------



## Piotr Ryka

Quote: 





blubliss said:


> Yes, now we all need three amps to drive the 009 properly...


 
  Not properly. Only better than T2.


----------



## Piotr Ryka

Quote: 





complin said:


> Are you referring to Wikors T2 here?


 
   
  Yes.


----------



## Piotr Ryka

Quote: 





alota said:


> please, you´ve a link for this amplifier?


 
   
  This is not amplifier, this is adapter. You need some good amplifier to pair it with LRT. Name of constructor is Peter Rill, Germany.
   
http://peter.family-rill.de/


----------



## alota

Quote: 





piotr ryka said:


> This is not amplifier, this is adapter. You need some good amplifier to pair it with LRT. Name of constructor is Peter Rill, Germany.
> 
> http://peter.family-rill.de/


 
  thank you.
  i know peter rill site. the transfomer is an italian project
  but i knew that peter rill did not produce more.
  perhaps i´m wrong


----------



## spritzer

Just got the KingSound... yeah...  these aren't very good.  Very, very colored. 
   
  Quote: 





piotr ryka said:


> Where I wrote that Euridice is better than T2? Can you read? I've wrote that LRT with ASL and Restek is better for SR-009.


 
   
  Sorry meant to write T1 as it is superior to that POS in every way.  It's always amazing to see people take the Stax designs from the 60's, think they can improve them and end up with this stuff. 
   
  Quote: 





alota said:


> thank you.
> i know peter rill site. the transfomer is an italian project
> but i knew that peter rill did not produce more.
> perhaps i´m wrong


 
   
  Not really as this has been done since the 60's and the Rille boxes do not use any part of the Ciuffoli schematic.  That is a good idea as the Ciuffoli circuit will destroy your headphones rather quickly.


----------



## Lornecherry

SRD-X fix ...where does this wire go?
   
  Just bought an SRD-X pro off ebay but it arrived damaged/not working...even though the seller took a picture of it with the red light on before he shipped. Rather than send it back, I'd like to try and get it working.
   
  Upon taking the case off, I noticed a black wire (see pictures) had become un-soldered and was loose. Where does this wire go? What else is there to check if the red light does not come on? I have tried both C-cells and an adapter (12V, 400 MA with negative polarity at the tip as per other threads) and the light does not come on. The black wire is attached to the very edge of circuit board and marked BK, hard to see its origin i the picture I took.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





spritzer said:


> That is a good idea as the Ciuffoli circuit will destroy your headphones rather quickly.


----------



## milosz

I think what's needed for Stax 'phones are the headphone equivalent of speaker wire trestles. Little ceramic holders that you stick to your clothing and furniture with velcro, they hold the headphone cable away from touching you or your furniture so your electromagnetic field doesn't contaminate the music signals ( or whatever the pseudoscience behind speaker wire trestles says they're supposed to do...)
   
  Really dedicated headphiles would super-glue the trestles to their skin.  
   
  And I thought of a great name for this product -  they could be called "Tresticles" -


----------



## antonyfirst

Today I am going to try my KGSS-A with Stax Sigma normal bias.


----------



## alcyst

Quote: 





milosz said:


> I think what's needed for Stax 'phones are the headphone equivalent of speaker wire trestles. Little ceramic holders that you stick to your clothing and furniture with velcro, they hold the headphone cable away from touching you or your furniture so your electromagnetic field doesn't contaminate the music signals ( or whatever the pseudoscience behind speaker wire trestles says they're supposed to do...)
> 
> Really dedicated headphiles would super-glue the trestles to their skin.
> 
> And I thought of a great name for this product -  they could be called "Tresticles" -


 
  ka boom tish
   
  Thnak you


----------



## Lornecherry

..or anyone at least with a schematic of the SRD-X?


----------



## spritzer

Quote: 





lornecherry said:


> ..or anyone at least with a schematic of the SRD-X?


 
   
  Never seen one but it's just a couple of chip amps driving transformers.  The pics you posted were useless though.


----------



## gilency

I think I saw the guy with the scary looking avatar last night on youtube's road rage videos


----------



## davidsh

Does your vintage lambda's have that 'special smell'? Like a smell of old electronics...


----------



## DefQon

My old Lambdas smelt like cigarettes couldn't get the smell out so sold it.


----------



## bearFNF

My LNB's smell as clean as the day we bought them.


----------



## mechgamer123

Hi everyone, looks like we moved to a new thread eh?
  Has anyone tried building something similar to the ED-1 to try and equalize the lambdas? Seems like it could be a fun DIY project if I could build one that did roughly the same thing the original did.


----------



## rx79ez08

My Stax headphones all have no special smell. But I see what you mean, smells are very hard to get off headphones.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





mechgamer123 said:


> Hi everyone, looks like we moved to a new thread eh?
> Has anyone tried building something similar to the ED-1 to try and equalize the lambdas? Seems like it could be a fun DIY project if I could build one that did roughly the same thing the original did.


 
  According to spritzer the Stax mafia has attempted on a diy version but ended up too complicated to build and to get right if it were to be released for the masses.


----------



## mechgamer123

defqon said:


> mechgamer123 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi everyone, looks like we moved to a new thread eh?
> ...



Dang, that's quite unfortunate. It would be fun to build one for the lulz.


----------



## complin

Stick your smelly headphones in a sealed bag with a bar of nice smelling soap for several months. I find that gets rid of nasty smells like that.
  Also worth changing the ear pads (or washing) if velour as smells can get ingrained in them, even the after shave you wear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  Quote: 





defqon said:


> My old Lambdas smelt like cigarettes couldn't get the smell out so sold it.


----------



## milosz

When I first got my pair of Denon AHD-7000 (new) they had a light but very nice smell that I think was related to the wood finish.  Hard to describe.  It faded after a week or so.  I found I almost never listened to my AHD-7000's. They were kinda nice in some ways, and certainly pretty to look at, but the sound wasn't really what I like.  I sold them so I could afford more electrostatic stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  All of my Stax 'phones were used when purchased, but had no smells.  Guess I've been lucky in that.


----------



## spritzer

Quote: 





mechgamer123 said:


> Dang, that's quite unfortunate. It would be fun to build one for the lulz.


 
   
  There in lies the problem, you can't just build one for fun.  You need sophisticated equipment to set it up properly and dial in the curves you want.  That's why we deemed it to be too complicated and abandoned the project. 
   
  Quote: 





complin said:


> Stick your smelly headphones in a sealed bag with a bar of nice smelling soap for several months. I find that gets rid of nasty smells like that.
> Also worth changing the ear pads (or washing) if velour as smells can get ingrained in them, even the after shave you wear


 
   
  I've bought way too many used headphones to count and some have smelled quite badly.  With something like a Lambda the earpads are trashed and the whole set is broken down into its parts.  Cable is removed and put in a plastic bag with some automotive soap that cleans it nicely.  The drivers are removed from the baffle and the rest of the headphone is but in a bucket filled with strong soapy water.  The headpad is then cleaned carefully on its own, repaired is necessary and then pressed.  All the plastic pieces are treated and then everything is reassembled.


----------



## wink

Bicarb of soda (sodium bicarbonate) is usually the best thing to get rid of unpleasant/unwanted odours.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





wink said:


> Bicarb of soda (sodium bicarbonate) is usually the best thing to get rid of unpleasant/unwanted odours.


 
  +1, I can't count the amount of times I've had it get rid of the awful odour that was in my car after a some damn critter decided to piss all over the interior.


----------



## rx79ez08

This is possibly a very stupid question. Is the ED-1 simply a equilizer or is it a little more complicated?


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





rx79ez08 said:


> This is possibly a very stupid question. Is the ED-1 simply a equilizer or is it a little more complicated?


 
  Diffuse field equaliser. It is rather hard to describe what it does exactly but I was corrected by John that it is not some off the shelf equaliser to pair up with your Lambda Pro and SRM1 MK2 amp to make the sound more neutral. Something a long the lines of reproducing sound from a pin-point position that is similar to how speakers create that realistic imaging/soundstage positioning around you.
   
  Other's with first hand experience can describe it better.


----------



## bearded man

Hi Guys 
 I also use Dubiel Eurydice.Together with another polish manufacture Ancient Audio Lektor Air make SR-Omega and MK1 sounds quite nice for me


----------



## DefQon

That transport looks nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Btw just curious what SN is your Omega?


----------



## rx79ez08

Again at the risk of sounding very dumb. From your description, its sounds like a equilizer and possibly a crossfeed circuit. If that is the case can't something like Foobar plugin replicate most of the function if you know the exact setting?
  Do you just need a spectrum analyser to find the frequency response and some understanding of the exact time delay for the crossfeed?


----------



## bearded man

Quote: 





defqon said:


> That transport looks nice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  SN is 0015x


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





bearded man said:


> SN is 0015x


 
  You got one of the early units. Mine was 34x.


----------



## davidsh

It





rx79ez08 said:


> Again at the risk of sounding very dumb. From your description, its sounds like a equilizer and possibly a crossfeed circuit. If that is the case can't something like Foobar plugin replicate most of the function if you know the exact setting?
> Do you just need a spectrum analyser to find the frequency response and some understanding of the exact time delay for the crossfeed?


 
It is done already.


----------



## bearded man

DefQon you do not have Omega any more ? Why ?
She is sounds absolutely fantastic.

I expect answer - I got Orpheus


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





bearded man said:


> DefQon you do not have Omega any more ? Why ?
> She is sounds absolutely fantastic.
> 
> I expect answer - I got Orpheus


 
  LOL no Orpheus, too rich for my blood.
   
  Had to sell it because I lost my jerb and I was in debt. I had very much fun while I had mine. Indeed fantastic headphone even driving them off the T1S amp.


----------



## mechgamer123

spritzer said:


> mechgamer123 said:
> 
> 
> > Dang, that's quite unfortunate. It would be fun to build one for the lulz.
> ...



Ah, I see. Okay, thanks to you and defqon for answering my question


----------



## spritzer

I'd really like to do something like this in software though.  Not sure how to do it in DIY though.


----------



## davidsh

^http://www.head-fi.org/forum/newestpost/675545


----------



## MLudovic

AFAIK the ED-1 and ED-5 don't apply any crossfeed to the signal, they are only EQs which can be simply replicated with FIR filtering or even with a VST/winamp plugin set with the following filters :
   
  600Hz     +1.7dB     Q=2.8     0.51oct
  1400Hz     -4.2dB     Q=1.2     1.17oct
  3200Hz     +6.1dB     Q=1     1.39oct
  6100Hz     -2.9dB     Q=3.5     0.41oct
  7900Hz     +2.3dB     Q=2.5     0.57oct
  10500Hz     -6.6dB     Q=5.4     0.27oct
   

   
   
  Concerning the hardware version, setting up the EQ freq could be easily done with a good soundcard and a program like HOLM to make measurements of the device and show its actual EQ curve. HOLM can display several curves so a reference curve could be used as a template to fine tune the device.
   
  No need for expensive oscilloscope or spectrum analyser here...


----------



## DefQon

Even with software that looks to complicated. I want plug and play.


----------



## 3X0

Complicated and free vs. plug and play in a unicorn piece of hardware fetching untold sums of money.. hm.


----------



## yawg

Quote: 





mechgamer123 said:


> Hi everyone, looks like we moved to a new thread eh?
> Has anyone tried building something similar to the ED-1 to try and equalize the lambdas? Seems like it could be a fun DIY project if I could build one that did roughly the same thing the original did.


 

 I had an ED-1. It did nothing for me. "Equalize" the Lambdas? I don't think so.
   
  With the ED-1 most of my music lost focus and detail so I sold it.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> Complicated and free vs. plug and play in a unicorn piece of hardware fetching untold sums of money.. hm.


 
  I'm just too lazy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Anyway got a rare SRA-3S coming my way, time for more rebuilding fun.


----------



## tdogzthmn

does anyone have experience with an SRD-7 and Class A tube amps?  I'm looking at building a Bottlehead Stereomour which is a 3.5 WPC amp utilizing the 2A3 power tube.  I'm using my SRD-7SB with my 2 WPC SEX amp which sounds very nice but requires the volume to be set at 90% to achieve moderate listening levels.  If the SRD-7 is able to scale well, I would like to be able to sell off my SRD-600.


----------



## DefQon

Got an sbmk2 off a 85watt Wpc class a hybrid tube amp. I found 8-12watts (latter push pull config) to be acceptable for the srd's.


----------



## 3X0

I finally managed to get out the (completely stripped) screw from my HE60 but wore away a bit of the plastic screw hole in the process.

Wondering what would be the best candidate to restore that small amount of plastic. I'm thinking JB Weld + some sandpaper -- going to be replacing the drivers sometime down the line so I'm not too worried about the sanding.

Is it even worth it? Screw secures just fine since the threading on the grill portion is still intact. When the screw is removed it looks ugly though.


----------



## spritzer

Quote: 





yawg said:


> I had an ED-1. It did nothing for me. "Equalize" the Lambdas? I don't think so.
> 
> With the ED-1 most of my music lost focus and detail so I sold it.


 
   
  Same here, hated the effect... 
   
  Quote: 





defqon said:


> I'm just too lazy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Did you get that filthy one from Japan?  That one needs to be submerged in soap for a week or so... 
   
  Be aware that most of them just work on 100V and 117V.  Only a handful are 230V.


----------



## reiserFS

What's the part No for a replacement headband? Just got my SR-202 in and it seems to be a bit loose.


----------



## mongeddavid

Just a heads up. I bought a pair of SR407 Lambdas as faulty the left ear speaker having a channel imbalance issue and distortion. I bought them mainly to use the headband for an original pair of Lambda normal bias phones I purchased recently. Anyway after a few phone calls and establishing the 407s would be uneconomic to repair i had a bit of a play round with them. I tried charging them for a day or two with no result so i opened them up and carefully disassembled the driver. Long story short after a few attempts tightening the little nut and cleaning contacts assembling and disassembling i had no joy. I then tried the following however i don't know which of these did the trick as i did them at the same time. I cleaned up and tightened the nut and bolt that attaches to the copper colored oval holding the Mylar. I also pressed down the little tabs that connect the soldered wire joints to the stators. Lastly i flipped the Mylar assembled over so i t was back to front and duly re assembled. Plugged them in and everything is hunky dory glorious sound no imbalance.
   
  I just thought id share this and would be happy to give a more detailed description if anyone fancies giving this a try. on a knackered out of warranty pair.


----------



## mongeddavid

Bah i also forgot to ask a couple of questions myself. I have the SRM T1 Amp. Firstly what mods if any are recommended and doe anyone have a schematic or manual for it? Can you have two pairs of phones plugged in at the same time. eg 1 normal bias and 1 pro or 2 pros? Lastly as its in my hifi rig should i place it before my passive pre or after?
   
  Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.


----------



## EveTan

What would be the "cheapest" amp (preferably used) to power a 007?


----------



## mechgamer123

Quote: 





evetan said:


> What would be the "cheapest" amp (preferably used) to power a 007?


 
  I thought you didn't like the sound of the 007?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





mechgamer123 said:


> I thought you didn't like the sound of the 007?


 
  I was never impressed much with the 007MKI, then I heard it on my (now sold) KGSS and gained a new respect for it. Might even pick one up one day....(might).


----------



## EveTan

mechgamer123 said:


> I thought you didn't like the sound of the 007?




That was in unideal meet listening conditions. So I'm disregarding all my thoughts on the Stax models.


----------



## mechgamer123

Quote: 





evetan said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Lmao, then I wish you the best of luck on your journey of wasting spending a lot of money on audio gear to find what you like.


----------



## oogabooga

Srm-323s sounds great to me. Heard an srm-1/mk2 at a meet and could also do with that if I was tight on cash.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





evetan said:


> That was in unideal meet listening conditions. So I'm disregarding all my thoughts on the Stax models.


 
   
  Quote: 





mechgamer123 said:


> Lmao, then I wish you the best of luck on your journey of wasting spending a lot of money on audio gear to find what you like.


 
  To be honest I don't Eve is a headphone person, maybe apart from a select headphones that he/she hasn't heard properly in ideal (non-meet) conditions where your placebo and bias would wear off pretty fast if one has heard them properly. 
   
  Just go with a CIEM and you'd probably enjoy it more than anything else, or go my route i.e. speakers.


----------



## EveTan

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Just go with a CIEM and you'd probably enjoy it more than anything else, or go my route i.e. speakers.


 
  Though I already have CIEMs and IEMs. The trend is, if I can find a deal, I will try the gear and resell it without losing money. Afterall, I really haven't heard enough. Don't worry about it too much. .


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





evetan said:


> I will try the gear and resell it without losing money.


 
  Unfortunately....
   
   
  .....This is the impossible part of CIEM's.


----------



## Lornecherry

SRD-X Pro help:
   
  I posted some pictures previously regarding this SRD-X Pro that was shipped to me working (red light on) but arrived non-functional. Unfortunately those pictures were, as Spitzer put it, useless and of poor resolution/orientation. I've taken these with a Canon EOS, so hopefully someone with an SRD-X Pro can tell me where the black wire (probably a ground?) goes. It is the wire that I'm holding in the third picture.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





spritzer said:


> Did you get that filthy one from Japan?  That one needs to be submerged in soap for a week or so...
> 
> Be aware that most of them just work on 100V and 117V.  Only a handful are 230V.


 
  Yep, figured I give em a try (and most likely a rebuild back to spec as well). Yeah going to give him a nice scrubbing when he takes his bath, make sure all that gunk is removed. 
   
  Well aware of the voltage too since I've followed your restoration process back in the old Stax thread and on HC.


----------



## EveTan

Quote: 





oogabooga said:


> Srm-323s sounds great to me. Heard an srm-1/mk2 at a meet and could also do with that if I was tight on cash.


 
  So something like this would fair ok? http://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-STAX-SRM-MK2-solid-state-amp-Amplifier-/281151317177?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4175eca4b9


----------



## rx79ez08

Quote: 





mongeddavid said:


> Bah i also forgot to ask a couple of questions myself. I have the SRM T1 Amp. Firstly what mods if any are recommended and doe anyone have a schematic or manual for it? Can you have two pairs of phones plugged in at the same time. eg 1 normal bias and 1 pro or 2 pros? Lastly as its in my hifi rig should i place it before my passive pre or after?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.


 

 You can plug in more than 1 headphones. I never tried 3 at the same time though, but that is purely because I am out of space on my desk not the capabilty of the amp.


----------



## NoPants

if you're trying to drive the mk1 it's been discussed at length that none of the standard retail amplifiers will work all that well. probably one of the most common questions asked with respect to stax amplifiers - one which also I'm guilty of hammering as well. 

that being said if you can build one of the amplifiers to properly drive them you shouldn't have much problem liquidating your equipment if it doesn't pan out properly. there would also be no limiting factor affecting your decision (like underpowered amplification ). From what has been discussed it seems like throwing the kgsshv output stage onto a (used) 727? might be fairly economical and tractable with respect to proper drive.


----------



## NoPants

.


----------



## spritzer

Quote: 





mongeddavid said:


> Just a heads up. I bought a pair of SR407 Lambdas as faulty the left ear speaker having a channel imbalance issue and distortion. I bought them mainly to use the headband for an original pair of Lambda normal bias phones I purchased recently. Anyway after a few phone calls and establishing the 407s would be uneconomic to repair i had a bit of a play round with them. I tried charging them for a day or two with no result so i opened them up and carefully disassembled the driver. Long story short after a few attempts tightening the little nut and cleaning contacts assembling and disassembling i had no joy. I then tried the following however i don't know which of these did the trick as i did them at the same time. I cleaned up and tightened the nut and bolt that attaches to the copper colored oval holding the Mylar. I also pressed down the little tabs that connect the soldered wire joints to the stators. Lastly i flipped the Mylar assembled over so i t was back to front and duly re assembled. Plugged them in and everything is hunky dory glorious sound no imbalance.
> 
> I just thought id share this and would be happy to give a more detailed description if anyone fancies giving this a try. on a knackered out of warranty pair.


 
   
  Thanks for sharing but I'm not surprised the new modular drivers are giving people issues. 
   
  Quote: 





mongeddavid said:


> Bah i also forgot to ask a couple of questions myself. I have the SRM T1 Amp. Firstly what mods if any are recommended and doe anyone have a schematic or manual for it? Can you have two pairs of phones plugged in at the same time. eg 1 normal bias and 1 pro or 2 pros? Lastly as its in my hifi rig should i place it before my passive pre or after?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.


 
   
  Here is the schematic:
   
  http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/stax_srm-t1.jpg
   
  Only mods that I would do is replacing all the electrolytic caps in the unit and rebias the tubes.  You can rewire the socket for ECC99's but you need to keep an eye on the transformer and the filaments to make sure it isn't overheating due to the extra current draw. 
   
  Two phones aren't a problem and I'd place it before a passive pre. 
   
  Quote: 





lornecherry said:


> SRD-X Pro help:
> 
> I posted some pictures previously regarding this SRD-X Pro that was shipped to me working (red light on) but arrived non-functional. Unfortunately those pictures were, as Spitzer put it, useless and of poor resolution/orientation. I've taken these with a Canon EOS, so hopefully someone with an SRD-X Pro can tell me where the black wire (probably a ground?) goes. It is the wire that I'm holding in the third picture.


 
   
  Those are better but I'm still not sure where the wire should go.  Black is probably ground but I'd need to see the back of the PCB to be sure.  Being ground it can only go to so many spots, DC input, the batter connector in the bay, volume control, power on LED etc.


----------



## Senn-Fi

Does anyone know what the customs charge is on a SR-009 or SR-007 coming to the US from Japan?


----------



## mongeddavid

Thanks very much for that Spritzer you are a Gent


----------



## mongeddavid

Quote: 





senn-fi said:


> Does anyone know what the customs charge is on a SR-009 or SR-007 coming to the US from Japan?


 

 I am sure there is a web site if you type in google that tells you. In the UK it is 20% In the States i think there is Tax plus an additional fee. When i looked into it the prices although good were only a few pounds off UK retail if tax was added ( you can get lucky and have them go through customs with no charge sometimes ) In the end i decided to buy from here as with some issues being reported id rather be dealing with my Local Stax Agent than sending them back at my own cost to Japan.


----------



## complin

Here you are http://www.dutycalculator.com/
  
  
 Quote:


mongeddavid said:


> I am sure there is a web site if you type in google that tells you. In the UK it is 20% In the States i think there is Tax plus an additional fee. When i looked into it the prices although good were only a few pounds off UK retail if tax was added ( you can get lucky and have them go through customs with no charge sometimes ) In the end i decided to buy from here as with some issues being reported id rather be dealing with my Local Stax Agent than sending them back at my own cost to Japan.


----------



## dukeskd

To the USA, importing from Japan is 0%.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

dukeskd said:


> To the USA, importing from Japan is 0%.


 
  
 I was gonna say, it shouldn't be anything. I've never imported expensive headphones from japan. But in all my years of anime importing from japan I have never payed an import tax of any kind


----------



## Senn-Fi

Thanks guys. Just curious, because when I ordered my NCore kits from the Netherlands, I had to pay like $130 customs to get them. Didn't want any surprises.


----------



## shipsupt

The pricing has changed since you checked.  Today you can get the 009 from Japan for around $3431US in the UK.  IF you add the full 20% and another conservative $100 for shipping you're still $1550US under the UK retail (and that's not including shipping on the UK price).  Give or take a few $ for quick conversion to and from GBP. 
  
 You can ship them back and forth a few times and still be well ahead with the current value of the yen.
  
 Quote:


mongeddavid said:


> I am sure there is a web site if you type in google that tells you. In the UK it is 20% In the States i think there is Tax plus an additional fee. When i looked into it the prices although good were only a few pounds off UK retail if tax was added ( you can get lucky and have them go through customs with no charge sometimes ) In the end i decided to buy from here as with some issues being reported id rather be dealing with my Local Stax Agent than sending them back at my own cost to Japan.


----------



## lyricsuite

Hello. Have not contributed here for a very long time. Have recently acquired 007 mk2.5 and am very happy following a partial port block. The 'tuning' of the port is to my ears quite critical and required a lot of dismantling/assembling to get it right, but the result seems near-ideal to me  in terms of managing the usual criticisms of this variant. Essentially, I've left the 'middle' of the port open and closed the outside portions on both sides. For hose who want to know, yes it can fart, but it can also vent wind without farting. This seems to alleviate both the famous mid-bass hump and the slightly odd midrange emphasis.
  
 On another note, I also use 4070s for editing. Where is the port on those? I don't get any 'feeling' of there being anything like the 007 variant...
  
 Thanks,
 Neil


----------



## spritzer

The ports on the 4070 are on the sides of the baffle so look under the side walls on the earpads.


----------



## lyricsuite

Thanks very much. Will check!
  
 Neil


----------



## complin

The actual cost would be as follows:

Total customs value (CIF):*£2262.13*This is the amount that customs values your import at- Duty:*£45.24*- VAT:*£461.48*Total import duty & taxes due:*£506.72*This is the amount that needs to be paid to customsTotal landed cost:*£2768.85*This is the total cost of importing, including product, shipping, insurance and import duty & taxes  at USD/GBP exchange rate of 0.6406
  
*The total cost would be $4,328*
  
 Quote:


shipsupt said:


>


----------



## reiserFS

There's a high pitched noise on my SR-202 on the right side, never experienced that with my O2 - cause? Plays music just fine otherwise though.


----------



## spritzer

Dust in the driver makes that sound.


----------



## reiserFS

Interesting. Oddly enough it simply goes away after playing about 30 mins of music.
  
 Quote:


spritzer said:


> Dust in the driver makes that sound.


----------



## Lornecherry

*SRD-X Pro fixed and lightly modded:*  
 First, a big thanks to Spitzer for letting me know the most likely locations for the ground wire...indeed it was the battery black. Resoldered and all was good.
  
 So, I mounted my AK100 on top (perfect black-on-black aesthetics), then hard-wired a mini-stereo plug into the left and right inputs, added a 1300 MAH 3S Lipo (around 11.5-12.6 volts depending on charge) and a Lipo low voltage alarm/voltage indicator) and voila, a fully portable Stax setup that sounds great. With the Lipo battery mod, it's much lighter than with the 8 C cells it was originally designed for...and thus is that much easier to lug around. Yes, it's bigger than an i-device and Pico amp, but still fits easily in a briefcase and looks not out of place on an office desk.
  
 The best sound is from my LNS, which are still efficient enough not to sound thin. It also works well with the Gamma Pro's, as I think it was originally voiced for the GP's and those phones are more compact and slightly more efficient...but still retain that trademark Stax sound.
  
 All in all, I'm pleasantly surprised at how good this is with 24/96 HD Tracks playing through the AK100. When bench-marked against my $16K non-portable Stax system (including a full-blown Empirical Audio Overdrive running into a 007A and LNS with power conditioning), well yes, the non-portable was of course better (faster, less roll-off, better soundstage, punch, power)... but I've yet to hear any portable rig non-electrostatic setup that approaches the lushness of these vintage pieces combined with an AK100. Compared to my Grado RS-1 and RA-1 the Stax is so much more fuller with a more tube-like midrange. Old + New+ a Mod or Two = Magic


----------



## shipsupt

complin said:


>


 
  
 For example the retail price today at Custom Cable in the UK is 3695GBP incl. VAT but not shipping.  You're still north of a 922gbp (1438 usd) delta... and that's assuming you get the full customs hit and shipping that is that expensive. 
  
 I like supporting the local guys too, but at some point I take advantage of the world market.


----------



## oogabooga

Very, very nice!
  
 Quote:


lornecherry said:


> *SRD-X Pro fixed and lightly modded:*
> 
> First, a big thanks to Spitzer for letting me know the most likely locations for the ground wire...indeed it was the battery black. Resoldered and all was good.
> 
> ...


----------



## shipsupt

Cool rig.
  
 Sometimes I think my focus is misdirected on my home gear.  In a "normal" week I spend around 8 hours listening to my commute rig and a very conservative 30 hours listening to my desk rig. 
  
 Unless I fit a long weekend listening session in my time with the home system rarely approaches those kinds of hours in a given week.  Yet, I spend more time and money on that system! 
  
 Maybe I can fit the BHSE on my desk?  Come to think of it, I could make the 717 work.  In the mean time, the 252 is doing admirable work.
  
  
 Quote:


lornecherry said:


> *SRD-X Pro fixed and lightly modded:*


----------



## Lornecherry

Most of my listening is done around the home, but on three different floors. The SRD-X Pro is good enough so that I don't have to fit-out my work computer with a USB unit (I work from home) and it makes a nice bedside rig, though there's enough leakage from the Stax to tweak interest at WikiLeaks.
  
 It may also accompany me when I travel...but getting through airport security with a weird, home-wired battery black box with a flashing LED counter might not be the best ideal. It really does look like an IED when you open the back and see the lipo voltage counter "ticking" away 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 That said, I'm sure this unit can be modded for a more transparent, open sound. I've seen the odd mention of that on the old threads; if anyone recalls what mods improve the SRD-X Pro, and know where those thread are; please point me in that direction - Lorne


----------



## complin

Yes thats sound about right but you should have no problem negotiating a 10% discount off the list price (Whatever that is these days?)
  
 Also if you buy from Japan its likely that none of the UK dealers will help (at least for free) so you may have to ship them back to Japan with all the customs hassle over again! 
  
 Quote:


shipsupt said:


> For example the retail price today at Custom Cable in the UK is 3695GBP incl. VAT but not shipping.  You're still north of a 922gbp (1438 usd) delta... and that's assuming you get the full customs hit and shipping that is that expensive.
> 
> I like supporting the local guys too, but at some point I take advantage of the world market.


----------



## mongeddavid

shipsupt said:


> For example the retail price today at Custom Cable in the UK is 3695GBP incl. VAT but not shipping.  You're still north of a 922gbp (1438 usd) delta... and that's assuming you get the full customs hit and shipping that is that expensive.
> 
> I like supporting the local guys too, but at some point I take advantage of the world market.


 
  
 You have to support Local Dealers where possible my one for example lends me all sort of kit and its only fair he sees some return on this. Also he is good as gold when an issue arises. I am not sure id want to take the risk with something very expensive from overseas. All that being said where would you buy from in Japan? I see plenty of ebay traders from there but their prices are higher than elsewhere in Japan and im not sure id pump a few grand in the direction of a web site i dont understand.


----------



## spritzer

reiserfs said:


>





> Interesting. Oddly enough it simply goes away after playing about 30 mins of music.


 
  
 That's the usual behavior when the drivers aren't completely fubar.  It's also less noticeable with our new fully regulated and limited bias supplies.


----------



## Solshock

Howdy all,
 I'm thinking about picking up a stax basic system, which I believe includes an SR-207 and an SRM-252S amplifier.
  
 My question is, can I use a 12v US wall wart with this amp, or will I need to plug in the included "wall wart" into a 120V to 100V step down transformer?
  
 This link:
 http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_1953663_-1
  
 Indicates what I'm looking at.  Will that wall wart suffice?
  
 How is the performance of the 207 and the SRM-252S?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## spritzer

That one is good in terms of specs but Stax uses the Japanese polarity for their amps which is reversed compared to most of the world.  You need one with the ring as + and the pin as -.  Either that or just replace the plug and swap the wires.


----------



## Solshock

spritzer said:


> That one is good in terms of specs but Stax uses the Japanese polarity for their amps which is reversed compared to most of the world.  You need one with the ring as + and the pin as -.  Either that or just replace the plug and swap the wires.


 
 Thanks Spritzer.  Do you have a recommendation where a properly confugured wall wart can be purchased?  Otherwise will it work if I just use a 120V to 100v step down transformer?
  
 Thanks again.


----------



## 3X0

How does the SRM-323S compare to the vanilla KGSS?

I'd love one of the DIY designs but I want to have channel balance control.


----------



## georgep

3x0 said:


> .... I'd love one of the DIY designs but I want to have channel balance control.



 


Then just use two separate pots/attenuators - one for each channel (but if your phones (or ears) do not have an imbalance using dual pots would be a pain). Don't know where to get the dual volume controls that Stax uses.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

has anyone done a comparison of the different stax lambda models in a separate thread?  I am running the sr-lambdas with the smr1-mk2 and am very pleased with it.  but I am thinking about adding some pro bias cans.  I would stay in the Lambda family, as those are more in my price range.  I have read that most believe the original lambda signature is the one to find, but those dont come around very often.  I would have started this in the entry level stax, but I dont think I want the 202.  but maybe I do.  any opinions from those who have tried them?  Dont have to go new either.  is the 303 still around?


----------



## spritzer

solshock said:


> Thanks Spritzer.  Do you have a recommendation where a properly confugured wall wart can be purchased?  Otherwise will it work if I just use a 120V to 100v step down transformer?
> 
> Thanks again.


 
  
 No, there are none that I know of but check stores that sell musical instruments.  Some of that stuff (effect boxes and the like) is configured for the same polarity as Stax.  
  


3x0 said:


> How does the SRM-323S compare to the vanilla KGSS?
> 
> I'd love one of the DIY designs but I want to have channel balance control.


 
  
 It's not even close to the KGSS. 
  
 You can easily do a balance control with a balance pot.  Tricky to do it balanced but single ended it isn't a problem.


----------



## Solshock

spritzer said:


> No, there are none that I know of but check stores that sell musical instruments.  Some of that stuff (effect boxes and the like) is configured for the same polarity as Stax.


 
 Thanks Spritzer.  So is it still a safe bet to use a step down transformer and the stock wall wart?


----------



## K_19

Radio Shack has those Wallwarts that have removable plugs that enables you to reverse the polarity as you need it... it's the one I bought for my 2170 and it works well. Give that a try first as it is dirt cheap anyway and is easily acquired.


----------



## oogabooga

keithpgdrb said:


> has anyone done a comparison of the different stax lambda models in a separate thread?  I am running the sr-lambdas with the smr1-mk2 and am very pleased with it.  but I am thinking about adding some pro bias cans.  I would stay in the Lambda family, as those are more in my price range.  I have read that most believe the original lambda signature is the one to find, but those dont come around very often.  I would have started this in the entry level stax, but I dont think I want the 202.  but maybe I do.  any opinions from those who have tried them?  Dont have to go new either.  is the 303 still around?


 
  
 I have the SR-Lambda and the SR-Lambda Pro. Sadly, the only Normal bias amp I have is an old SRA-3S in need of some refurbishment. That being said, I do find the SR-Lambda more enjoyable than the SR-Lambda Pro on that amp. 
  
 I've owned the 202 and 404LE. Both are good in their own way, but I prefer the Lambda-Pro to the 404LE (it's been so long since I heard the 202 that I can't remember much about it).  
  
 If you are looking for Pro bias Lambdas, I would suggest you start with the SR-Lambda Pro, as you can usually find a good deal in the BS forums.


----------



## yawg

keithpgdrb said:


> has anyone done a comparison of the different stax lambda models in a separate thread?  I am running the sr-lambdas with the smr1-mk2 and am very pleased with it.  but I am thinking about adding some pro bias cans.  I would stay in the Lambda family, as those are more in my price range.  I have read that most believe the original lambda signature is the one to find, but those dont come around very often.  I would have started this in the entry level stax, but I dont think I want the 202.  but maybe I do.  any opinions from those who have tried them?  Dont have to go new either.  is the 303 still around?


 
 Many of us here seem to think that the LNS is (one of) the best compromises of the lot. But I never heard the original Lambda Pro Sig. so I cannot really judge their merit. My LNS improved a bit after fitting the new leather pads.
  
 I use the LNS with my SRM-T1S for classic and acoustical music and my SS SRM-3 for movies and the louder stuff. Works perfectly for me.
  
 But if I can have my way I listen to my speakers, modified Magnepan 3.6R. Quite a bit more realistic than "earspeakers" - if you have powerful amps to feed them adequately - and your neighbors are on a vacation ...
  
 Happy listening, Jörg.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

yawg said:


> Many of us here seem to think that the LNS is (one of) the best compromises of the lot. But I never heard the original Lambda Pro Sig. so I cannot really judge their merit. My LNS improved a bit after fitting the new leather pads.
> 
> I use the LNS with my SRM-T1S for classic and acoustical music and my SS SRM-3 for movies and the louder stuff. Works perfectly for me.
> 
> ...


 
  
 so the LNS being the Lambda Nova Signature?  not the sr-lambda signature?  I believe they are different yes?
  
 Yes, I love my speakers as well, but when you just cant use them, the stax come in.  and there is an intimacy to the headphones you cant get from speakers either I think.  Plus all that room tuning.. ugh.. thats the next thing for me.


----------



## milosz

TUBES FOR SRM-T1
  
 Is a 6CG7 just as good in SRM-T1  as 6FQ7?  I see the 6CG7  has a Max plate voltage rated 30 volts lower.
  
 I've read somewhere that many folks like the Japanese-made version of the tube quite a lot.  There are several 6FQ7's that are Japanese made - Lindal, Channel Master, Sears....are ANY Japanese-made 6FQ7's a pretty safe bet over, say, an RCA?


----------



## Solshock

k_19 said:


> Radio Shack has those Wallwarts that have removable plugs that enables you to reverse the polarity as you need it... it's the one I bought for my 2170 and it works well. Give that a try first as it is dirt cheap anyway and is easily acquired.


 
 Hmm thanks.  Not really sure what you mean exactly is there any way you could show me a link?
  
 Also, would a step down transformer also work?


----------



## DefQon

solshock said:


> Hmm thanks.  Not really sure what you mean exactly is there any way you could show me a link?
> 
> Also, would a step down transformer also work?


 
  
 Personally I'd just go with a step down trafo because I like using what has been supplied with the amplifier itself.


----------



## gilency

link: http://www.bixnet.com/duoucacoforp.html
  
*Set Polarity & Plug the tip*
 After you have selected the proper plug tip, you need to connect the plug tip to the adapter cord to match the correct polarity setting. It is CRITICAL that you determine and set the correct polarity needed for your product before using the adapter. FAILURE TO DO SO MAY RESULT IN SEVERE DAMAGE TO YOUR PRODUCT!
 To determine the correct polarity for your product, inspect the DC adapter jack or the label of your product thoroughly for information about the products polarity. There will be a symbol with a plus sign on one side and a minus sign on the other with a circle between them. The circle will have an opening so that it looks like a "C". If the opening of the circle is on the side with the plus sign the polarity is positive. If the opening is on the side with minus sign the polarity is negative. If you cannot find a polarity sign on your product you need to call the product's manufacturer to find out what the polarity is.
 There is a small plus (+) and minus (-)sign on the plastic part of the plug tip above the two pins where you plug the tip into the cord. On the adapter's cord where you connect the plug tip - you should notice the word "tip".
 If your polarity setting is POSITIVE, you need to set the plug tip to "tip positive" by connecting the "plus sign" and the word "tip" on the adapter cord so they line up on the same side. Most laptops polarity setting is Positive like bellow picture:






  




 ​
Link: http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/33968/how-to-tell-polarity-expected-of-a-dc-barrel-jackUnless there is a figure like below, or some wording like "positive centre" then you can't tell.​



or:​


----------



## livewire

@ gilency - Nice "tips"!
  
 I think he should understand now.
  
 If one is still unsure, do what the drunk guy said, that'll work 4sure.
  
 And yes, there are many helpful people at "The Shack" to sort your quandry. (Or not.)


----------



## 3X0

spritzer said:


> It's not even close to the KGSS.






Is anything that's Stax? Nodded SRM-727?


----------



## DefQon

livewire said:


> If one is still unsure, do what the drunk guy said, that'll work 4sure.


 
 Who this drunk guy you speak of ?


----------



## gilency

DefQon needs to sober up once in a while


----------



## DefQon

gilency said:


> DefQon needs to sober up once in a while


----------



## spritzer

keithpgdrb said:


> so the LNS being the Lambda Nova Signature?  not the sr-lambda signature?  I believe they are different yes?
> 
> Yes, I love my speakers as well, but when you just cant use them, the stax come in.  and there is an intimacy to the headphones you cant get from speakers either I think.  Plus all that room tuning.. ugh.. thats the next thing for me.


 
  
 LNS is the Lambda Nova Signature.  It is rather different from the normal Signature (sometimes called the Pro Signature for some unknown reason) not only in sound but also how they are made. 
  


milosz said:


> TUBES FOR SRM-T1
> 
> Is a 6CG7 just as good in SRM-T1  as 6FQ7?  I see the 6CG7  has a Max plate voltage rated 30 volts lower.
> 
> I've read somewhere that many folks like the Japanese-made version of the tube quite a lot.  There are several 6FQ7's that are Japanese made - Lindal, Channel Master, Sears....are ANY Japanese-made 6FQ7's a pretty safe bet over, say, an RCA?


 
  
 The electrode structure in these should be identical, just the inclusion of a shield between the sections is the difference.  The specs have always varied between 300 and 330V based on the supplier. 
  
 I'd take the Japanese tubes over the US stuff.  Brand doesn't matter as they were all made in 2-3 factories. 
  


3x0 said:


> Is anything that's Stax? Nodded SRM-727?


 
  
 That's as close as you can get.


----------



## davidsh

Arghh!! Channel imbalance, somewhere around 2-3dB on my lambda sig's! What is the best way to dial in the dual channel pot/ test for channel imbalance in general?
  
 EDIT: I have found that the women 'singing' in 'the great gig in the sky' by pink floyd seems to be dead center, which helps quite a lot!


----------



## Lornecherry

To answer the question about which Lambdas, I have had tried all the Pro bias vintage, and a few of the new ones ...of the vintage, the LNS is the best for me; really sings with the 007A amp or T1. (best midrange bloom, least harsh highs, bass is there, but not in spades). I also, on occasion, like the Gamma Pros; not a musical as the LNS; with a much different sound signature from the Lambda's, and not quite as open...it's just that sometimes I like the change.
  
 I much prefer the LNS to the 404's or 404LE (never tried 507). I now have Omega's II's on the way...will do a long A/B vs the LNS and sell the one that finishes 2nd (who am I kidding, I'll probably keep them both).
  
 That said, paying attention upstream to your source and DAC will ultimately be the determining factor. On the Chord DAC, they all sound very good; as the Chord is great at getting rid of sibilance in poorer CD's. With the fully loaded Empirical Audio Overdrive fed by a good transport, the LNS is able to bring out the detail better than other Lambdas (thinnest membrane in the LNS compared to other Stax).
  
 I use rather expensive PS Audio power conditioning and good cables (Stealth, Kimber Silver Streak), which are necessary with a revealing DAC, as the Empirical (or other revealing DAC) will sound shrill with all but the very equipment in front of it.
  
 So...I recommend buying/trying all the Lambdas and selling what you don't like. There's a good market for used and I've almost always recovered my money by buying used and then selling to upgrade/try something else.
  
 Too many times on here I read that one amp/Stax phone is better than the other...without proper care/thought given to the rest of the audio chain, and especially the front end.
  
 I also run a subwoofer (Rel Stadium) with my phones, as none of the family is too near my dedicated listening room (or man-cave as my wife calls it). LNS + 007A + Rel sub to me sounds better than anything else I've heard at ANY show/meet (including the BHSE + 009 without a sub). Of course, I'm sure the 009's with a sub would be heaven. I know the sub idea has been kicked around before and largely dismissed by some as weird, dumb or not practical...but once you hear a properly "loaded" room with headphones this way, you are hooked. BTW the sub does not "boom"...it merely fills in the bottom that's missing and adds needed punch to the music that no small (ear) speaker is capable of. If you look at all of the prominent electrostatic speakers (Soundlab, Quad, ML, etc.) most of them need a very fast sub to fill out the bottom.


----------



## mongeddavid

Thanks for the reply if you do decide to sell on the LNS then please bear me in mind thanks. My system consists of a Metrum Octave NOS DAC or Audio Note DAC Sig  I mainly play FLACs / WAVs from my PC via a Hiface EVO full stack SPDIF convertor and Master clock. Cabling either Chord Signature or MIL spec DIY cables. Rest of my system is a Border Patrol 300b SET Power Amp run via a lightspeed LDR passive Pre into Living Voice Avatar Speakers. The stax phones are the closest i have come in terms of sonic strengths to the sound of my main system.


----------



## davidsh

LNS has 1.5 um drivers, LS has 1um, the newer ones have 1.35 um drivers afaik.what do you think about LS vs LNS?


----------



## n3rdling

lornecherry said:


> To answer the question about which Lambdas, I have had tried all the Pro bias vintage, and a few of the new ones ...of the vintage, the LNS is the best for me; really sings with the 007A amp or T1. (best midrange bloom, least harsh highs, bass is there, but not in spades). I also, on occasion, like the Gamma Pros; not a musical as the LNS; with a much different sound signature from the Lambda's, and not quite as open...it's just that sometimes I like the change.
> 
> I much prefer the LNS to the 404's or 404LE (never tried 507). I now have Omega's II's on the way...will do a long A/B vs the LNS and sell the one that finishes 2nd (who am I kidding, I'll probably keep them both).
> 
> ...


 
 You need to think of the 'room' as the cavity within the earpads between your ear and the driver when it comes to headphones.  Headphones aren't designed to drive entire rooms so the comparison you've drawn doesn't quite make sense.  Of course a little headphone driver isn't going to be able to output linear bass from a meter away but that's not how they're used so it doesn't matter.  When you ask them to drive a small sealed volume of air (as they're designed to do), they actually have a big advantage over most speakers in terms of giving you linear bass response.  They're also able to do this with a single driver which maintains coherence as you don't need crossovers and multiple drivers to accomplish this goal.  I don't know of any single driver speaker that will go down as low as a decent headphone, let alone something like an Audeze or SR-009.  In fact, if you get a good seal with your LNS those will go down lower than that sub you have. 
  
 What headphones can't give you is the tactile sense of bass that a sub will give you as the waves hit your body.  This makes sense since the headphones are strapped to your head.  The Smyth guys actually recommend a device that you sit on in order to restore the tactile presence missing in headphones.  Your setup is definitely helping to restore that sensation.  I don't particularly care for it.  I would also recommend trying out a transmission line sub as that should help with the sense of agility and openness present in electrostats that a boxed sub can't really recreate.
  
 Also, the LNS doesn't have the thinnest membrane.  That's actually the Lambda Signature...a completely different headphone.


----------



## EveTan

What's the market price for SRM-T1W s used?


----------



## dukeskd

evetan said:


> What's the market price for SRM-T1W s used?


 
 500-700


----------



## antonyfirst

Birgir, do you think the quality of Omega 2 pairs has also something to do with the stax fart?
In some pairs, the fart seems to occur more frequently than others. Is it possible that the best drivers, are also more sensitive to the farting, because of the charge deposited on the armatures?


----------



## DefQon

dukeskd said:


> 500-700


 
  
 Yeah around there, supposedly some say it is inferior to the T1/T1S in both sound and mechanical design.
  
 Looks ugly too (imo).


----------



## gilency

I have used a sub off/on throughout the years with my headphones. Not a bad idea.
 As far as expensive power conditioners and cables, well........


----------



## rx79ez08

Have any one heard the Lambda Nova Classic and the SRM-3?
 How do they sound?


----------



## Keithpgdrb

thank you for your Lambda impressions.  very helpful.  What is the difference in tonal quality between the Lambda Nova Signature and the Lambda Signature?  Where does the 303 fit in all this?


----------



## mongeddavid

keithpgdrb said:


> thank you for your Lambda impressions.  very helpful.  What is the difference in tonal quality between the Lambda Nova Signature and the Lambda Signature?  Where does the 303 fit in all this?


 
 Also if anyone has done a direct comparison between the 407 and 507 that would be interesting. Id like to get the 507s however as i have a pair of 407s that are not 100% i could use them as spares should the need arise and thus the 407 would make more sense. I Have tried the original Lambda ear pads on the 407 and i felt there to be improvement at the bottom end of the spectrum with bass being more defined and textured. My idea if i go for the 407s is to add the 507s ear pads at some point.


----------



## DefQon

rx79ez08 said:


> Have any one heard the Lambda Nova Classic and the SRM-3?
> How do they sound?


 
 I'd personally chose a re-capped brought back to life Xh over an SRM-3, but they are based on similar circuits. I have owned the LNC before and it is sort of laid back sounding, kind of reminds me of the Lambda Pro in some ways but it has a nice tonality to the sound. No treble etch to these ears but the original earpads were shot on mine so I used the old vintage Lambda pads and eventually the 404LE/507 leather pads so you can get subtle sound improvements here and there but I greatly prefer the vintage pads by a long shot due to the thicker density of the pad structure. 
  
 For bare minimum of getting any basic Stax amp, I'd recommend an SRM1 MK2 or T1 out of the vintage line. SRM-323S is a good starting point out of the modern Stax amp's, better than the SRM1 MK2 and better than a lot of the more expensive tube amp's Stax sell's. Imo ofc.
  


keithpgdrb said:


> thank you for your Lambda impressions.  very helpful.  What is the difference in tonal quality between the Lambda Nova Signature and the Lambda Signature?  Where does the 303 fit in all this?


 
 You mean sound quality. LNS is well regarded because it is neutral and same with the LS which some call bright sounding and little lean on the bass. The 303 is more of a fun sounding Lambda but still more neutral than a lot of dynamic, planar's and some other stat's out there.
  


mongeddavid said:


> Also if anyone has done a direct comparison between the 407 and 507 that would be interesting. Id like to get the 507s however as i have a pair of 407s that are not 100% i could use them as spares should the need arise and thus the 407 would make more sense. I Have tried the original Lambda ear pads on the 407 and i felt there to be improvement at the bottom end of the spectrum with bass being more defined and textured. My idea if i go for the 407s is to add the 507s ear pads at some point.


 
 Get 507/404LE leather pads onto your 407. Owner/user's of both say that the 407 sound almost the same to a 507 by using the leather pads.


----------



## dukeskd

I believe the LNS has the best bass of all the Lambdas with good extension ability. Otherwise, Defqon nailed it.


----------



## rx79ez08

Thank you DefQon and dukeskd, I am actually not really interested in the amp. But I am a little interested in the LNC. That is why I want to know how it sounds.


----------



## DefQon

rx79ez08 said:


> Thank you DefQon and dukeskd, I am actually not really interested in the amp. But I am a little interested in the LNC. That is why I want to know how it sounds.


 
  
 No problems, I may be getting some more big Stax stuff coming in soon, when I do I'll shoot you a PM if you want to come mine for a mini meet.


----------



## dukeskd

defqon said:


> No problems, I may be getting some more big Stax stuff coming in soon, when I do I'll shoot you a PM if you want to come mine for a mini meet.


 
 What kinda stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





?


----------



## rx79ez08

defqon said:


> No problems, I may be getting some more big Stax stuff coming in soon, when I do I'll shoot you a PM if you want to come mine for a mini meet.


 
 Yeah, that would be great. I look forward to it.


----------



## DefQon

dukeskd said:


> What kinda stuff
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The good stuff, comes in black, silver or creamy champagne colour. Haven't decided yet.


----------



## wink

O2 Mk1...?


----------



## DefQon

That or the 009's. Or both if I'm feeling it.


----------



## Lornecherry

> LNS is well-regarded because it is neutral and same with the LS which some call bright sounding and little lean on the bass. The 303 is more of a fun sounding Lambda but still more neutral than a lot of dynamic, planar's and some other stat's out there.


 
 Agree 100% LS was a touch too lean. Of course if your front end is "tubey" or let's say a NOS DAC, you _may_ prefer that, but I ended up selling my LS in favor of the LNS.
  
 With respect to sub + headphones ...well of course neither was designed to mate with the other...but who cares...it works, and adds even more of the illusion of a live performance...isn't that the holy grail we strive for? Much more natural than the "ButtKicker" type device that mounts under the chair. In a hobby where high dollars past a certain point buy you mostly incremental performance... a used REL was the best $1300 I've spent.
  
 Moreover, the lowest frequency of music (let's say 20 Hz) are very long waves (audio engineers correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that wave is 20 feet long between peaks?)...hence, even though a headphone may go that low, the wave cannot properly form in the short distance from the driver to your ear.
  
 I stand corrected on the membrane of LNS; I knew it was thin but got it confused with the time that stax tried even thinner on their earlier Lambdas.


----------



## justin w.

Just posted here about this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/680660/new-lower-prices-on-stax-headphones-amplifiers-and-whiplash-cables
  
 the long awaited price drop of STAX in the U.S. is here, and prices are now down about 15%


----------



## ALSO

Anyone notice the Omega that went up for auction on Yahoo.jp for about 10 secs?  Put in a bid, went back to plan a line of action and it was gone.  Anyone here grab it?


----------



## loligagger

Might have just been taken down by the seller for whatever reason. I was even considering putting in a bid despite having an 009 coming in a few months.
  
 The stax threads are deadly to the wallet...


----------



## ALSO

loligagger said:


> Might have just been taken down by the seller for whatever reason. I was even considering putting in a bid despite having an 009 coming in a few months.
> 
> The stax threads are deadly to the wallet...


 
  
 Right, my guess is someone noticed and called the store, since it was from a shop and not an individual.  But it was gone in a matter of seconds, and I was just getting ready to go the distance on that one ...


----------



## AnakChan

This is THE Omega!? Not O2!? Bummer I missed it!


----------



## ALSO

anakchan said:


> This is THE Omega!? Not O2!? Bummer I missed it!


 
  
 Right, THE Omega--I jumped and was hoping someone could verify that I hadn't imagined it.  I put in a bid, and braced myself to go (for) broke, but it was gone in a matter of moments.  The 007t that went up with it is still there.


----------



## dukeskd

also said:


> Right, THE Omega--I jumped and was hoping someone could verify that I hadn't imagined it.  I put in a bid, and braced myself to go (for) broke, but it was gone in a matter of moments.  The 007t that went up with it is still there.


 
 How much was the buyout bid?


----------



## milosz

http://www.staxs.net/StaxOmega.aspx
  
 HAHAHA


----------



## livewire

Dang! I missed it.


----------



## complin

This must be due to the shift of the Yen against the US $, unfortunately the rest of the world, particularly Europe might not see much difference in prices   
  
  
 Quote:


justin w. said:


> Just posted here about this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/680660/new-lower-prices-on-stax-headphones-amplifiers-and-whiplash-cables
> 
> the long awaited price drop of STAX in the U.S. is here, and prices are now down about 15%


----------



## wink

Quote:Milosz 





> http://www.staxs.net/StaxOmega.aspx
> 
> HAHAHA


 
 TASTY....!


----------



## ALSO

wink said:


> TASTY....!


 
  
 Nice.  At least the rest of us can enjoy these.  I contacted the store, and the Omegas went for JPY 220,000, about US$2,200.


----------



## RedBull

Didn't know now Stax acquire food business.


----------



## dukeskd

also said:


> Nice.  At least the rest of us can enjoy these.  I contacted the store, and the Omegas went for JPY 220,000, about US$2,200.


 
 Damn!


----------



## DefQon

also said:


> Nice.  At least the rest of us can enjoy these.  I contacted the store, and the Omegas went for JPY 220,000, about US$2,200.




Damn I would've snagged it in an instant before you guys have the opportunity to bid on it.

Just to let you know the going market price for a good good-mint condition Omega with/without it's original box excluding the Japanese market is $3.4-3.9k. $4k is a bit pushing it anything bit over this range is borderlining flipping unless you're buying a NOS pair. $4.7k+ is flipping.

I got mine for 3.5 from Germany after Euro to AUD currency conversion. Didn't come with the advertisements and manuals though but I did get a HPS-1 stand to match.


----------



## ALSO

defqon said:


> Damn I would've snagged it in an instant before you guys have the opportunity to bid on it.
> 
> Just to let you know the going market price for a good good-mint condition Omega with/without it's original box excluding the Japanese market is $3.4-3.9k. $4k is a bit pushing it anything bit over this range is borderlining flipping unless you're buying a NOS pair. $4.7k+ is flipping.
> 
> I got mine for 3.5 from Germany after Euro to AUD currency conversion. Didn't come with the advertisements and manuals though but I did get a HPS-1 stand to match.


 
  
 Thanks for this info DefQon, am now keeping my eyes open.  I did place the first (and perhaps only) bid while the auction lasted, but I would have kept up with the final price.  Still, am that much less broke, so I'll count my blessings for now.


----------



## M-13

Had a feeling price drop was coming. Thank you bank of Japan for destroying the Yen.


----------



## DefQon

also said:


>


 
 No problems. Of course if you can get a working pair with no history of abuse or swapped out transducers (Stax replaces all Omega's with O2 drivers if damaged) less expensive than even better. Use the above as baseline or reference.


----------



## Currawong

It's worth checking with Craig at Kuboten if you seen an Omega I as at least one turned up that had OII drivers in it. It was put up for a relatively cheap price too.


----------



## complin

Problem is that often sellers don't know or won't say (very evasive) if the drivers have been replaced, so one has to be very careful when buying from a non trusted source or a private seller.
 Thats why personally I have been loath to purchase off an auction site like fleabay or YahooJP 
  
 Quote:


currawong said:


> It's worth checking with Craig at Kuboten if you seen an Omega I as at least one turned up that had OII drivers in it. It was put up for a relatively cheap price too.


----------



## MohawkUS

It took me a while, but I've finally found a dynamic headphone that surpassed my SR-5nb. The Edition12. The SR-5 wasn't embarassed by the Beyerdynamic T90, wasn't embarassed by the HD700, and the Hifiman HE-6 just nudged it out but was far too heavy. I must seem completely nuts for going so high-end to dislodge a headphone I payed only $350 for from my system; but I desperately wanted something with more body to it's sound as well as a more forgiving nature.

My question is, what is a fair price to charge for my SR-5nb and it's accompanying SRD-6SB? I would charge the same price that I paid myself but I'm a clumsy oaf and I did some damage to the headband. As it is now, the left side won't stay adjusted and it affects comfort significantly. But I'm hoping there is someone out there who wants them for the drivers or has the means to fix it. How much should I knock off the price due to the damage? Should I post a picture? 

Also I figured I'd give the STAX thread dibs as I never would have gotten this pair of headphones had this thread not existed in the first place.


----------



## georgep

My recollection was they are in the $150 range for the set in good condition without any issues. Others may have more accurate pricing.


----------



## spritzer

> Originally Posted by *complin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Problem is that often sellers don't know or won't say (very evasive) if the drivers have been replaced, so one has to be very careful when buying from a non trusted source or a private seller.
> Thats why personally I have been loath to purchase off an auction site like fleabay or YahooJP


 
  
 That is true and that the SR-Omega fitted with new drivers by Stax sounds awful.  They don't both to seal the baffle so mad bass all around.  Fix that though and they sound very nice but I wonder how the Mk2 drivers would sound.  Only ever heard the Mk1's...


----------



## MohawkUS

georgep said:


> My recollection was they are in the $150 range for the set in good condition without any issues. Others may have more accurate pricing.




I believe you're thinking of the standard SR-5. I'm asking about the SR-5NB, or the 'goldies'. I've been checking ebay as well as head-fi every month for the past year or so(hoping to find a broken pair so I could scrounge a new headband) but only one has come up since I bought mine. And like the pair I bought the seller wanted $350 and it sold. His was in mint condition though.


----------



## madbull

What should I get, besides an adapter (which I already have), to better drive a Sigma (normal bias)?


----------



## NoPants

Any competent power amplifier should work, the original adapters have fairly high transformer ratios


----------



## dukeskd

spritzer said:


> That is true and that the SR-Omega fitted with new drivers by Stax sounds awful.  They don't both to seal the baffle so mad bass all around.  Fix that though and they sound very nice but I wonder how the Mk2 drivers would sound.  Only ever heard the Mk1's...


 
 What about the 009 drivers in the Omega 1?


----------



## DefQon

No.


----------



## Solshock

georgep said:


> My recollection was they are in the $150 range for the set in good condition without any issues. Others may have more accurate pricing.


 
 Question - why are these things so cheap (relatively speaking) if they rival headphones twice or more their price?  Is it just the age and durability issue?


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Commoners steer clear of electro stats because of the specialized amping needed. So that brings down demand a bit. The older models before the lambdas don't demand a huge amt of bread. Generally. People just don't know much about them.


----------



## DefQon

And they are very old as well. Some people like to buy brand new but isn't the case with the older Stax, so some issues are possible.


----------



## dukeskd

defqon said:


> No.


 
 Drivers too big?


----------



## DefQon

dukeskd said:


> Drivers too big?


 
  
 I don't know, got a big fat No when I emailed the distributor here.


----------



## n3rdling

Not much reason to put a 009 driver in the Omega when the 009 has a much better housing.


----------



## Solshock

Thanks all.  That said, how much of a jump in quality would there be when comparing an SR-5 to a stax lambda basic setup?


----------



## MohawkUS

Check out this thread here, gives you an idea of the differences in sound signature between the two(SR5nb uses the same drivers as the X III, not sure about the standard SR-5): http://www.head-fi.org/t/172611/long-meandering-comparison-of-stax-404-and-stax-x-iii-episode-i/195

From that I figured that for the music I like I'd be happier with the 5s(No X IIIs were available at the time). You'll have to wait for a more experienced member than myself if you want to know which headphone is better on a technical level however.


----------



## DefQon

As spritzer said earlier "filthy"
  

  

  

  
  
 Following as per advice, left the knobs and faceplate in a bucket of warm soapy water for about 30 minutes, surprisingly it the brown/orangeish gunk came off quite easily which I thought was oxidation as it seems the anodizing has come off as well, the faceplate is literally cleaned up all of the Stax lettering and logo has come right off. Not too surprised given the SRA-3S is almost twice as old as I'am being released back in 1968.
  
 Upon opening it, one of the cartridges fell right out and there is a missing 6FQ7 Toshiba tube.
  
 Apart from being dirty and dusty, looks I like I have a long road ahead to re-furb this amp to it's original badass state.
  
 Any idea's on what I should do with the faceplate that it has lost all of it's Stax originality? Getting lettering done and anodized is too costly for such an amp, I'm thinking getting Stax stickers printed out with matching font typesets or maybe just make a wooden frame for the side of the faceplate to give it some class?
  
 Ideas/opinions appreciated.


----------



## n3rdling

That looks like it was found at the bottom of the ocean.


----------



## nk77

Always love a good before and after shot when it comes to electronics...


----------



## rx79ez08

defqon said:


> Any idea's on what I should do with the faceplate that it has lost all of it's Stax originality? Getting lettering done and anodized is too costly for such an amp, I'm thinking getting Stax stickers printed out with matching font typesets or maybe just make a wooden frame for the side of the faceplate to give it some class?
> 
> Ideas/opinions appreciated.


 
  
 You can get designs silk screen printed on sticky vinyl, so you then just get it and stick it on. You can probably find transparent one as well.
 Or you can get the faceplate engraved. Local shopping centers often have this type of service, so you can ask how much it cost.


----------



## DefQon

rx79ez08 said:


> You can get designs silk screen printed on sticky vinyl, so you then just get it and stick it on. You can probably find transparent one as well.
> Or you can get the faceplate engraved.* Local shopping centers often have this type of service, so you can ask how much it cost.*


 
 Forgot about this one. There are tons of key/jewelry engravers around me so I'll probably pop in and ask them. But it won't turn out that nice looking compared to the laser engraving done on a professional level, indeed a bit too costly for me and on such an amp.
  
 Any recommendations on silk screen printing services?


----------



## telecaster

I would never even consider refurbing it. Even if you change every parts in that Junk, It is up for a total rebuild including new circuit boards. The traces are likely completly oxydized, good luck trying to plug it on you wall AC or it's an expensive/original smoke machine though.


----------



## DefQon

telecaster said:


> I would never even consider refurbing it. Even if you change every parts in that Junk, It is up for a total rebuild including new circuit boards. The traces are likely completly oxydized, good luck trying to plug it on you wall AC or it's an expensive/original smoke machine though.


 
  
 That's the fun in rebuilding things. The circuit boards are fine, no shoddy traces, solder joints. Just alot of dust accumulated in the amp, seller did say the amp worked before serviced and put to hibernation for god knows how long. 
  
 I have a good supply of cap's and resistors so I'm almost good to go. Only thing I do need to get though is the 2 grey ELNA 350v 22uf cap's which I don't have any of.
  
 Regular folks like you will never understand diy'ers and hobbyists.


----------



## telecaster

What? You are young and speak too fast... Muhahahaha
 My DIY mod OTL for the HD650:
  

  
  
 But of course a non modded Stax amp is a beautiful design already.


----------



## wink

Quote:Stratocaster 





> But of course a non modded Stax amp is a beautiful design already.


----------



## spritzer

dukeskd said:


> Drivers too big?


 
  
 Could be or that they are just too expensive to use.  Probably 3K$ for the pair... 
  


defqon said:


> As spritzer said earlier "filthy"
> 
> Following as per advice, left the knobs and faceplate in a bucket of warm soapy water for about 30 minutes, surprisingly it the brown/orangeish gunk came off quite easily which I thought was oxidation as it seems the anodizing has come off as well, the faceplate is literally cleaned up all of the Stax lettering and logo has come right off. Not too surprised given the SRA-3S is almost twice as old as I'am being released back in 1968.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is quite bad...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I think that soap you use did a number on the silkscreen as even the heavy duty degreaser I use doesn't oxidize or damage the printing. 
  
 I'd go find a place that makes stamps and ask them to copy the Stax plate for you.  I use a place like that for my amps.  Not cheap but who cares... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I don't think Elna still makes axial high voltage caps so I'd just swap for Nichicon, Panasonic or Philips/BC.  I always use the latter or Rifa in the many SRA-3S's that I've revbuilt.


----------



## georgep

defqon said:


> ... seller did say the amp worked before serviced and put to hibernation for god knows how long.



 


Really.... and its missing a tube? Did it evaporate in storage?


----------



## forbigger

good luck on the rebuild......and yes, I agreed that it's a very big "statisfaction" reviving an almost dead amp like this


----------



## soren_brix

Question regarding Stax Sigma Normal Bias, one with kettle cable, the other with flat cable.
  
 Anyone know if there are different drivers in those Sigma's?
 Or is the difference between those being caused by the cable alone?
  
 The 'kettle' version seems less sensitive, or needs more power then the flat cable one.
  
 The two kettle Sigmas I have sounds very similar. One has serial 00149 the other one is without serialnumber for some reason.
 The flat cable Sigma has serial 04596.


----------



## DefQon

spritzer said:


> That is quite bad...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah it's going to be a major PITA in to restore her, so far have cleaned knobs, faceplate and tubes. Removed main PCB from housing. Going to clean the chassis up. The two B+ cap's are 3 legged (2x22uf) 350v 22uf Elna's, {edit}, it is a dual section cap so I think upping the microfarads to 32+32 is ok. Can't find 22 dual section caps for a reasonable amount.
  
  
  
 The front power light indicator is a mini lamp (light bulb), I'm assuming any appropriate rated LED can be a drop in?
  


georgep said:


> defqon said:
> 
> 
> > ... seller did say the amp worked before serviced and put to hibernation for god knows how long.
> ...


 
 Haha was thinking the same thing. As always take everything with a grain from Japanese sellers when buying vintage or used gear.
  


forbigger said:


> good luck on the rebuild......and yes, I agreed that it's a very big "statisfaction" reviving an almost dead amp like this


 
  
 Indeed. I've rebuilt amp's in far worse condition then this Stax amp for sure. I remember a Sansui AU-414 amp I serviced that literally had nothing soldered in it's original place comparing to the schematics and service manual, the trafo was rocking around in the amp, took me a good 8 months to get it to working state.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Well, I just sold my LL locally today (on canuckaudiomart.ca). The new owner just picked it up. I'll post my comparative review with the KGSSHV by the weekend. I've finally settled into my end-game setup: Bryston BDA-2 --> KGSSHV --> SR-009. Good times.


----------



## dj nellie

Cool, looking forward to reading your in-depth impressions.  I would love to have had the KGSSHV as an option when I was looking for an amp, but I wasn't willing to venture into the world of DIY--either as a buyer, and definitely not as a builder.  
  
 I'm sure I'm not the only one who wishes there were more solid state options being commercially built.  I don't necessarily prefer the sound of solid state, I just like the easy start-up and compact form that they generally offer over tubes.


----------



## spritzer

Along with Peter's impressions I will also post mine as I recently bought a LLmk1.  I can only say no so many times and it was... well... not expensive.  Haven't received it yet as it was simpler to keep it in the US and send it to Kevin Gilmore first.  We will then post our impressions of it, full details of the circuit and measurements. 
  
 Quote:


defqon said:


> Yeah it's going to be a major PITA in to restore her, so far have cleaned knobs, faceplate and tubes. Removed main PCB from housing. Going to clean the chassis up. The two B+ cap's are 3 legged (2x22uf) 350v 22uf Elna's, {edit}, it is a dual section cap so I think upping the microfarads to 32+32 is ok. Can't find 22 dual section caps for a reasonable amount.
> 
> 
> 
> The front power light indicator is a mini lamp (light bulb), I'm assuming any appropriate rated LED can be a drop in?


 
  
 I always upgraded to at least 100uf or higher for those spots.  The capacitance chosen back in the day was more what would fit and not what was needed.  These caps are run in parallel so you can just replace them with a normal single section cap. 
  
 I always fitted a LED off the filament supply with a bridge and a cap.  Not sure how the indicator is run and off what voltage.  The neon bulbs used in the SRD series run at 110V so not LED territory. 
  
 Btw.  Here is the schematic in case you need it:
  

  
 It's funny to look at how transistors were used in 1968.  The front end could just as well have been done with tubes and the back end... well it is quite primitive. 
  
 Might want to add two diodes to the PSU for a full bridge.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

Hello fellow Stax aficionados! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Is anyone here from the EU who owns a SRM-310 and would be willing to sell it to me for a reasonable price? I know that this amp isn't so common, but maybe I'm lucky....
 I have also created a thread in the sale/trade forum: http://www.head-fi.org/t/681305/wtb-stax-srm-310-eu-version


----------



## davidsh

It seems the channel imbalance has gotten better with my sig's. Time will tell... Right now it is only a dB or two..


----------



## davidsh

Nah, isn't better. Another issue, though. The right driver seems to squeal when I move my head, press the driver housing, makes adjustment, etc, but only when the sig's are connected to the T1? I have found it only happens in the pro socket as well. Beginning to think the problem might be with the amps output stage.


----------



## 3X0

Does the imbalance persist on the normal bias output, or is it only the squealing that is resolved?
  
 Is there a proven methodology for (deep) cleaning electrostatic headphones? After I remove the old drivers from my HE60s I would like to disassemble them and give them a thorough cleaning to free them of any remaining dust and grime. Not sure if the cleaning agents to use for this or whether submersion is safe.


----------



## davidsh

It seems to differ whether there is imbalance on the normal bias socket. Suddenly one side just becomes softer in volume. Right now, it seems there is no or little imbalance on the pro socket as well. Dunno... Now the imbalance seems to be back. But not on the normal bias socket.


----------



## DefQon

If there is squealing from the transducers even when the earspeakers are not powered on from the amplifier then it means there is a small puncture into the internal dust filter somewhere and there is either hair or a dust particle sitting inside the stators.
  
 To fix this you would would need to find a way to extract the hair or blow out the dust (not using a vacuum or air compressor) and then use a bit of clear tape and seal that puncture up.
  
 It works as I've done this before.


----------



## DefQon

spritzer said:


> It's funny to look at how transistors were used in 1968.  The front end could just as well have been done with tubes and the back end... well it is quite primitive.
> 
> Might want to add two diodes to the PSU for a full bridge.


 
 Thanks for that, looks like I can also easily add a (slightly lower) pro-bias at 560vdc. Cool.
  
 Cheers


----------



## davidsh

There is no squealing when they aren't plugged in/ are plugged into the normal bias.
  
 It seems the channel imbalance disappears the moment I press the right earspeaker to return within a fraction of a second. The driver squeals slightly while I do this.


----------



## DefQon

Is it a high pitch whine or squealing? Both can mean Shakespeare itself is squealing or a cap in the pro bias supply circuit on the amp has a cap going bad, electrolytic, polypropylene or ceramic.


----------



## davidsh

Squeal, I'd say.. It comes and goes. Also, they aren't working flawlessly on the normal bias either. Atm that is..


----------



## SBranson

All things considered do Stax amps, in general, sound better with the RCA connections or XLR?  I know there's a lot of variability but I would like to get things set up better and I will need some interconnects and wondered if I should go balanced or not.  
 In the past I've heard benefits to both on other systems so just looking for opinions.
 I have the SRM-717 and O2mk1.  I am looking either at an Audiolab 8200CD or going computer based with an HRT Streamer HD..  Both have balanced option.  Just can't decide which route I want to go yet.


----------



## spritzer

The Stax amps are naturally balanced so assuming that the RCA and XLR output stages in the amp are roughly equal then balanced should be a bit better.


----------



## SBranson

Excellent.  Thanks very much for the concise response, I will explore the balanced option.


----------



## paradoxper

Subbed.


----------



## MacedonianHero

In case anyone is interested...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/681729/comparisons-of-the-liquid-lightning-and-kgsshv-solid-state-stax-amplifiers


----------



## SBranson

If I wasn't saving for my source components I'd pick these up.  Maybe someone here is interested?  Price seems okay, no?
  
STAX SRD-7 with SR-5 http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649080573-stax_srd7_with_sr5_headphone/images/625843/


----------



## arnaud

Here are the results from the amplifiers shootout mentioned by Eric65 earlier in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/681814/amplifiers-shootout-for-stax-009-eddie-current-electra-audiovalve-rkv-wooaudio-wee-stax-srm727-srm007t2


----------



## Solshock

Hello all,
 I just picked up a Stax Lambda Basic kit from Japan. All I need for use here in the U.S. is a step down transformer and I'm good to go right?  the provided wall wart can just be plugged right in to that?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## spritzer

Yes


----------



## eric65

arnaud said:


> Here are the results from the amplifiers shootout mentioned by Eric65 earlier in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/681814/amplifiers-shootout-for-stax-009-eddie-current-electra-audiovalve-rkv-wooaudio-wee-stax-srm727-srm007t2


 
  
 Thank Arnaud. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Amplifiers shootout for stax 009, without visibility (in blind), the most dangerous of all for amplifiers !
  
 Surprises ...


----------



## 3X0

Blargh.. right when I get my SRM-323S, spritzer puts a lovely KGSS for sale.. I haven't even sold my SRM-T1 yet.


----------



## spritzer

I aim to please...


----------



## NamelessPFG

3x0 said:


> Blargh.. right when I get my SRM-323S, spritzer puts a lovely KGSS for sale.. I haven't even sold my SRM-T1 yet.


 
  
 If not for the "local only" bit of your listing, I'm confident you would have sold it a LONG time ago.
  
 I was actually kicking myself for buying an SRM-T1 at just under $404 when seeing that listing of yours, until realizing that as a NYC-only local sale, I would have never had a chance at buying it to begin with.


----------



## steve2151

3x0 said:


> Blargh.. right when I get my SRM-323S, spritzer puts a lovely KGSS for sale.. I haven't even sold my SRM-T1 yet.


 
  
 Seconding what NamelessPFG just said. If you were to reconnect the volume pot, I bet you could get ~$450 shipped based on historical Ebay pricing. With a fresh set of tubes, $500+. Good condition SRM1/MK2s are already close to $400.
  
 I should offer to pick up it up and ship it to someone at cost if they are willing to let me demo the thing for a week...
  


spritzer said:


> I aim to please...


 
  
 The KGSS is mine! Thanks Spritzer!


----------



## MacedonianHero

steve2151 said:


> The KGSS is mine! Thanks Spritzer!


 
  
 I loved the KGSS with the SR-009s and it was a very good step up from the SRM727II.


----------



## eric65

macedonianhero said:


> I loved the KGSS with the SR-009s and it was a very good step up from the SRM727II.


 
  
 Following a rigorous testing procedure blind not to be swayed by his subjectivity?


----------



## gilency

Was your study double blinded and randomized? If not, then there is the researcher bias.


----------



## 3X0

In a nutshell, +2.
  


namelesspfg said:


> If not for the "local only" bit of your listing, I'm confident you would have sold it a LONG time ago.
> I was actually kicking myself for buying an SRM-T1 at just under $404 when seeing that listing of yours, until realizing that as a NYC-only local sale, I would have never had a chance at buying it to begin with.


 


> Originally Posted by *steve2151* /img/forum/go_quote.gifSeconding what NamelessPFG just said. If you were to reconnect the volume pot, I bet you could get ~$450 shipped based on historical Ebay pricing. With a fresh set of tubes, $500+. Good condition SRM1/MK2s are already close to $400.
> 
> I should offer to pick up it up and ship it to someone at cost if they are willing to let me demo the thing for a week...


 
  





 I might actually keep it and restore the volume circuitry if it doesn't go. Just haven't had the time to get to it or the space to keep it lying around...


----------



## eric65

gilency said:


> Was your study double blinded and randomized? If not, then there is the researcher bias.


 
  
 Good idea!
  
 What double-blind randomized protocol you propose to compare, in practice, on four amplifiers with Stax SR 009, on five different music tracks, with two testers and six different audio criteria , in less than 4 hours?


----------



## georgep

eric65 said:


> Following a rigorous testing procedure blind not to be swayed by his subjectivity?



 


So I take it you will be posting this comment every time someone privides a listening impression?


----------



## n3rdling

georgep said:


> eric65 said:
> 
> 
> > Following a rigorous testing procedure blind not to be swayed by his subjectivity?
> ...


 
 Haha seriously.  It went from being something pretty cool to being his way of dismissing any opinion he doesn't want to see.


----------



## eric65

georgep said:


> eric65 said:
> 
> 
> > Following a rigorous testing procedure blind not to be swayed by his subjectivity?
> ...


 
  
 No, of course,
 This is just an observation that can be done to put the ordeal our subjectivity.
 Do you get the same results with a blind test ?
 That is the question. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Eric


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

georgep said:


> eric65 said:
> 
> 
> > Following a rigorous testing procedure blind not to be swayed by his subjectivity?
> ...


 
 My thoughts exactly....


----------



## georgep

eric65 said:


> Do you get the same results with a blind test ?
> That is the question.
> 
> 
> ...



 


Sorry, now you are asking me? I didn't even provide any listening impressions...


----------



## NoPants

I think your diction was too biased so it had to be called into question


----------



## MacedonianHero

eric65 said:


> Following a rigorous testing procedure blind not to be swayed by his subjectivity?


 
  
 I felt the differences were sufficient that my thoughts would not be swayed. The problems that I had with the 727II (while I still liked it very much) were not there with the KGSS such as better clarity and detail. 
  
 But like others have prosed, maybe it should be a new Head-Fi posting rule that a thorough D.O.E. is performed prior, signed off by a Six Sigma Black Belt and then run to ensure full statistically confidence.


----------



## gilency

eric65 said:


> Good idea!
> 
> What double-blind randomized protocol you propose to compare, in practice, on four amplifiers with Stax SR 009, on five different music tracks, with two testers and six different audio criteria , in less than 4 hours?


 
  
 I am not the one publishing the report. If you don't know how to do it. Well....
 A non blinded study does not differ much from a subjective opinion. That's all.
  
 Ask these guys how they did it.
 Hope you speak Spanish.
 http://www.matrixhifi.com/marco_directazul.htm


----------



## spritzer

Double blind testing was also banned here for years, especially with the cable crazies. 
  
 For my money DBT has more issues than benefits as it assumes you can take in all the information in short burst and then remember it well enough to compare.  I much prefer to drop any component into a familiar system and spend a few hours with the entire library on random to reveal strengths and weaknesses.  Level matching is critical but testing different volume levels is just as important.


----------



## duncan1

Thats exactly what I do Spritzer .Change a component -say a BJT  and then spend an hour or so judging not so much the difference but whether it improves the fidelity of the music signal.Can you imagine building an amp and then every test when you change something is a double blind test? > I dont know any engineers that do that.


----------



## jcx

more detailed discussion should be done in the Sound Science forum - but the basic definitions of psychoacoustic science established "objective" listening test conditions shouldn't be confused, misrepresented here
  
*[edit: quote added for clarity as to the object of the response]*


> For my money DBT has more issues than benefits as it assumes you can take in all the information in short burst and then remember it well enough to compare.


 
  
 you're conflating DBT with ABX and the empirical ABX human listening tests results that some sonic differences are better discriminated with short back and forth switching - even when the short comparison "forced choice" ABX causes subjects some mental stress - "I don't know" feelings they still can show statistical resolving power in their scores without reaching conscious "certainty" about which they are hearing
  
 longer listening can be done with ABX, level matching, Blinding - it may well be the case that several listening time scales are required to discriminate different aspects of music reproduction
  
 level matching doesn't preclude changing the volume - only that both systems are compared at matched volumes, whatever the volume setting is at that time - practically some volume controls won't track accurately enough so you need an acceptable source volume control
  
 and the required volume matching is well below conscious "they sound the same loudness" threshold - you have to measure - to 0.1 dB SPL, ~1% voltage drive matching at the headphone


----------



## duncan1

Excuse me! This isnt sound "science" You know full well I cant  post on it. This is exactly my argument to the Moderators people keep following me round the site trying to instill their "religious science" on me or to start an argument Now you are saying anybody designing and building an amp and make changes to it -be it move components around or try different types of components to see NOT JUST the technical spec. on test equipment but actually listens to it and I quote my mentor John Lindslay Hood  who did just that and was criticised by people like you for being SUBJECTIVE. And all his work  is mostly "not talked about" We I make no compromises  I listen subjectively like any human being. So away back to "sound science" and slag me off there. I wont be joining you there. I repeat this isnt -SOUND SCIENCE


----------



## jcx

you just beat me to tagging spritzer's post - I was still composing, never saw your reply before pressing the submit button
  
 I also do add to posts when I don't think it derails the sequence of the thread - but I did just add which line of spritzer's that prompted my post


----------



## duncan1

So what you are saying you are criticizing Spritzer-quote  = "For my money DBT has more issues than benefits ---etc--- To which I "heartily " agree . And you want to argue with him in sound science But I am barred from sound science because I argue with you and others---YES--- VERY FAIR INDEED. What next a diplomats job at the UN. I like a level playing field  and it seems Democracy  is sadly lacking here. I look forward to Spritzers reply to your criticism. AS his whole logic and engineering thinking seems to be like mine and thats why I admire him.He does not have "blinkered thinking" But has expansive creative thinking.


----------



## jcx

I am not arguing with his comment - just correcting his use of terminology - extrapolating from his comment that he really meant ABX test, and the specific result for recommended short time switching testing
  
 "DBT" makes no sense in the context of his comment except as a shortcut "loaded phrase" for a subset of audiophiles


> *Loaded* words and *phrases* have strong emotional implications and involve strongly positive or negative reactions beyond their literal meaning.


 
 but "DBT" is really only such a loaded phrase for this community - Double Blind Test protocol explanation can be found in any perceptual psychology textbook
  
  
  
 please drop this topic if you don't want to constructively participate in Sound Science - these posts will strain the mod's patience in the general fourms


----------



## Currawong

This is the Stax thread. The last two pages are an example of why DBT discussion is banned in the main forums. Please get back on topic from the next post as I don't want to have to start locking people out of the thread.


----------



## arnaud

Jcx, thank you for the constructive comments, as always. I never perouse the sound science as I expect there is a lot of pseudo science by non-technical people... But seeing your post makes me realise I am missing interesting exchanges too... Notwithstanding the fact we're indeed veering of topic and currawong is going to get mad again .


----------



## DefQon

Yeah as Currawong likes to put it, stay on topic or steel capped boot to the rear end.
  
 Anyways..
  
 Anyone here have the schematics to the SRM-1 amp? I do wonder what Stax headphone Stax originally sold it with the SRM-1 amp. I know the SRM1 MK2 and SRD-7sbmk2 was sold with the Lambda Pro's, SRD-(n) energizers with the other SR-(n) headphones, but I wonder what the original earspeaker was sold with the Mk1's as a complete package.
  
 @Spritzer: What diodes did you replace the originals ones in your SRA-3S rebuild? Can the 1N4007 be a suitable drop in replacement? It is nearby 4x0.47uf 600v Toshie axial supply caps besides the two dual section 350v ELNA's .
  
 Cheers


----------



## spritzer

Even though I've replied at the other place, for future reference the 1N4007 works just fine.  Also always change out the output capacitors on these and it would be a good idea to add the proper output resistors for safety. 
  
 In vintage Stax news I just scored a SRA-7S which will need complete refurbishment.  Should be fun to have with my SR-1's.


----------



## DefQon

Yes no problems I've replied back and probably post there in future with anything technical guidance needed.
  
 Cheers


----------



## M-13

I didn't know DBT discussion were banned. I think that's an awesome idea! I hate DBT discussions more than Beats Audio.


----------



## DefQon

One can learn much from DBT impressions/tests (if conducted properly). But unfortunately it's a topic that sparks a flare amongst people quite easily.


----------



## paradoxper

Anybody know of a better place to purchase 2sc4686a transistors than Bdent? Going for 60 of 'em.


----------



## Nemeske88

Dear Forum!
  
 If I am about to update the amplification on my system what would be the best value for money?  I am using two lambdas, an 1979 SR-Lambda and an 1999 SR-303.
 I would like to use the both at the same time.


----------



## nemomec

nemeske88 said:


> Dear Forum!
> 
> If I am about to update the amplification on my system what would be the best value for money?  I am using two lambdas, an 1979 SR-Lambda and an 1999 SR-303.
> I would like to use the both at the same time.


 
  
 SRM-T1 is best for the Lamdas and has both bias outputs normal and pro!


----------



## DefQon

nemeske88 said:


> Dear Forum!
> 
> If I am about to update the amplification on my system what would be the best value for money?  I am using two lambdas, an 1979 SR-Lambda and an 1999 SR-303.
> I would like to use the both at the same time.




SRM1 MK2 for the Lambdas. Cleaner and more refined sounding than the T1 which is still pretty good, the MK2 provides more output powah as well.

SRM 323S for the 303/404.

@Paradoxper: If those trans are EOL vintage stuff Steve from ceitron can hook you up with bulk orders and his prices are sometimes better than Bdents for the same stuff. Feel free to PM me if you need more info or can't find the site.

Cheers


----------



## paradoxper

Got my order through Bdent. Ceitron's order page is down or broken. I was up very late anyways so couldn't call in. Thanks Def.


----------



## spritzer

Time for a bit of a history lesson.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  As we all know this all started with the Stax SR-1 set back in 1960.  Now I've owned three of these and while all were a bit different from one another, they were also pretty similar to the later SR-3.  Until this arrived:
  

  
 First off that nameplate, it's completely different.  Rubber used for the strain relief (hence it being so perished) but the biggest difference is the housing.  Not only is it a bit smaller but the material is very different.  It's almost like nylon as it is slightly soft and can bend a bit.  Also notice how rough the finish is where the cups meet the earpads.  Then we have the metal grills inside the capsules, one painted red and the other one gray to show the channels.  Headband is pretty much the same as the SR-3 but the plastic on the top is deep brown and not black. 
  

  
 This plug is the same as the first SR-1's so this one is very, very old.  The biggest clue for the vintage are the earpads though as the normal doughnut pads aren't supposed to be used with this set.  The first SR-1's used round foam pads which Stax dropped in the early 60's. 
  

  
 Here they are next to a younger sibling.  Roughly 10 years between them as I know the date when those SR-3's were bought new.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Best thing about the SR-1 is that all the holes under the pads are still covered up so they have never been opened in these 50+ years.  Now this does mean they need to be refurbished but that was a given thing.  Now what would you use to drive one of these?
  

  
 Something like this naturally, the first full size Stax transformer box introduced in 1965.  I also have a SRA-7S incoming from ca. 1966 which will work well once it's been completely rebuilt. 
  
 And do they work?  Well yes and both channels powered up immediately and to the same level.  Not bad for a 50+ year old headphone which haven't been opened since they were built.  Some intermittent distortion in the right hand driver but it's probably a connection issue.  The Stax midrange is all there but not a whole lot of bass under 200Hz.  Given how all my other SR-1's were made then the baffle seals are gone so one they are replaced, there will be some bass.  Not a whole lot of it but it is also very controlled.


----------



## DefQon

And add on top of that you got the rarest Stax earspeaker coming in - the SR-2


----------



## davidsh

I grew tired of my sig's with their channel imbalance so why not...


----------



## complin

*You want your cake and eat it ! *




  
 Quote:


davidsh said:


> I grew tired of my sig's with their channel imbalance so why not...


----------



## DairyProduce

what a waste of stax!


----------



## Keithpgdrb

davidsh said:


> I grew tired of my sig's with their channel imbalance so why not...


Not sure what I'm seeing here.


----------



## DairyProduce

Any idea how much a lambda pro is worth nowadays?


----------



## dukeskd

dairyproduce said:


> Any idea how much a lambda pro is worth nowadays?


 
 $300-$400.


----------



## lewisprinceAAD

davidsh said:


> I grew tired of my sig's with their channel imbalance so why not...


 
  
 Ha, maybe work on your lettering though


----------



## schorsch

Something is there to come to pimp the 009
  
 http://www.pawel-acoustics.ch/pdf/HP1_Mk3.pdf
  
 I use one with my SR007MK2. It makes it a real good headphone.
  
 I can't imagine what it does t othe SR009
  
 Regards Gerg


----------



## livewire

schorsch said:


> Something is there to come to pimp the 009
> 
> http://www.pawel-acoustics.ch/pdf/HP1_Mk3.pdf
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 So what does it cost these days to 'pimp' the 009?


----------



## loligagger

livewire said:


> So what does it cost these days to 'pimp' the 009?


 
  
 If I'm reading the pdf on their site right, about 1200 euros apparently.


----------



## DairyProduce

You guys know where I can find a comparison between the lambda nova signature and the lambda pro?


----------



## livewire

Run a search? Maybe the drunk guy knows the answer.
 At least you are in the right thread. Maybe go back a few years - there are two older Stax threads at HF.
 I haven't had any luck here finding a comparo between a Vega and a Monza.


----------



## jjinh

livewire said:


> Run a search? Maybe the drunk guy knows the answer.


 
  
 looks like he's _very _drunk now


----------



## DefQon

Who is this drunk guy you're talking about? =D

Lns is the most neutral sounding Lambda out of the family although I haven't owned/heard the LS so I can't say.

Lambda has bit of a happy treble or treble etch but it has very good detail retrieval and the most dynamic (bass) sounding of the Lambda lineup.


----------



## dukeskd

LNS has the familiar "dark" sound that the SR-007mkI has. To me that is a very neutral sound signature but it needs a quality amp to make it shine. The Lambda Pro is more lively and energetic with a bright sound , especially great for fast paced music.


----------



## antonyfirst

schorsch said:


> Something is there to come to pimp the 009
> 
> http://www.pawel-acoustics.ch/pdf/HP1_Mk3.pdf
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Does it cover the same role as a DAC? Or where do you place it?


----------



## AnakChan

antonyfirst said:


> Does it cover the same role as a DAC? Or where do you place it?


 
  
 Hmmm...it seems more like a Smyth Realizer alternative?


----------



## rx79ez08

Sound like a modern ED-1.


----------



## antonyfirst

anakchan said:


> Hmmm...it seems more like a Smyth Realizer alternative?


 
  
 You are right. By the way, the Realizer is much more flexible. I am wondering if a 'tuned' HP1_Mk3 would sound more flexible.


----------



## Headzone

Is there actually a known reason why Stax never upgrades their products appearance? Also why are the headphones produced of such cheap plastic?
  
 I mean 90% people actually considering buying those products are probably put off by their looks.


----------



## 3X0

The plastic on the Lambdas is rather robust, and not what I'd call cheap.
  
 The Lambda series seems to espouse the philosophy of function before form.


----------



## davidsh

^which will attract some buyers as well


----------



## Headzone

I found the plastic on the SR-202 at least a bit disgusting actually, reminded me of some old Nokia phones. I like the way they look, though.


----------



## dukeskd

The Lambdas/other Stax are actually the most durable headphones around.


----------



## Headzone

How so? I would swear they'd had cracked to pieces if I had dropped mine. I babyhandled them because they looked so fragile. Compared to "tanks" like DT770 etc, typical dynamic cans for example.


----------



## rx79ez08

headzone said:


> How so? I would swear they'd had cracked to pieces if I had dropped mine. I babyhandled them because they looked so fragile. Compared to "tanks" like DT770 etc, typical dynamic cans for example.


 
  
 That is no different from all other headphones. While the design is more modern HD800 is know to have paint cracking issues, while HD600, HD650 and HD 580 all have plastic headband which are know to crack and peel.
 To a certain extend the old saying "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" apply. If the design work, why bother to totally renew it. Also are there real evidence that the headband is fragile? I don't think I see many broken headbands around.
 Lastly it is something that use high voltage unlike most other headphones, so plastic insulation is a good thing unless you want accidential shorts all over the place.


----------



## dukeskd

headzone said:


> How so? I would swear they'd had cracked to pieces if I had dropped mine. I babyhandled them because they looked so fragile. Compared to "tanks" like DT770 etc, typical dynamic cans for example.


 
 Obviously the Lambdas were built for everyday listening use, and not dropping them around. I would think the same applies to any electrostat as they are fragile by nature. However, the many Lambdas that are around 20-30 years old are a testament to their longevity (not talking about the multitude of SR-2/3/5 still in existence).


rx79ez08 said:


> That is no different from all other headphones. While the design is more modern HD800 is know to have paint cracking issues, while HD600, HD650 and HD 580 all have plastic headband which are know to crack and peel.
> To a certain extend the old saying "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" apply. If the design work, why bother to totally renew it. Also are there real evidence that the headband is fragile? I don't think I see many broken headbands around.
> Lastly it is something that use high voltage unlike most other headphones, so plastic insulation is a good thing unless you want accidential shorts all over the place.


 
  
 Great points. I still cannot think of a reason why Sennheiser chose that paint for the HD800. I wonder if the HD700 has that issue fixed?


----------



## bearFNF

Our pair of LNB's from the 'late '80s have been stepped on, sat on, dropped (not by me, mind you, _x-wives suck_), and then crammed into a box for ten years (while I was underwater).  They are still kicking and working fine, if a little slow to charge.  So, fragile, ah, NO, I don't think so...YMMV, etc.


----------



## jjinh

I dont know if my NB lambdas are older than me but they still work fine and probably still have a lot of life left in them.
  
 I also dont mind the look of the lambdas (and even if I did it's not sitting in front of a mirror looking at myself while I'm listening to music!). They're comfortable and they sound great, pretty much the only things I care about.


----------



## spritzer

rx79ez08 said:


> Sound like a modern ED-1.


 
  
 From the limited internal pictures I've seen it looks like a clone or the circuit is very similar to the one used in the ED-1.


----------



## RedBull

Actually, my 7 yrs old daughter love the look of my lambda the most


----------



## sachu

dukeskd said:


> The Lambdas/other Stax are actually the most durable headphones around.


 
  
 THey do squeak and crackle around though . Even brand new out of the box. The 507 doesn't do this thankfully, or not noticeably as much. 
  
 It infuriated me when listening to the 404LE or the Labnda pro though. Turn your head from one monitor to the other and you'd hear the frame squeak.


----------



## georgep

sachu said:


> THey do squeak and crackle around though . Even brand new out of the box. The 507 doesn't do this thankfully, or not noticeably as much.
> 
> It infuriated me when listening to the 404LE or the Labnda pro though. Turn your head from one monitor to the other and you'd hear the frame squeak.



 


Then I must be lucky as my 307 (same frame as 407) doesn't do this. Neither did my 404LE when I had it.


----------



## Headzone

My 202 screaked like h*ll but I oiled the headband assembly carefully and they shut down. But the housing behind the driver.. It just feels so flimsy


----------



## DairyProduce

You guys have any idea what stax's new product cycle is like?


----------



## K_19

georgep said:


> sachu said:
> 
> 
> > THey do squeak and crackle around though . Even brand new out of the box. The 507 doesn't do this thankfully, or not noticeably as much.
> ...


 
  
 My 207 don't squeak either, extremely smooth at the joints yet very, very solidly made. Never thought for one second that they were filmsy at all.  Well, actually, one of my pads keep opening up a bit at the edges but that's more of the adhesive tape's problem and pretty common for all Lambda series from what I've seen.


----------



## mechgamer123

My SR-202 plastic creaks and feels a bit flimsy, but Miceblue's SR-207 does not creak or feel flimsy. The tradeoff though is that Mice's 207 is significantly heavier.


----------



## DefQon

Sachu is bang on the money regards to some models squeaking. My 202 creak and squeak like hell even after applying some oil to the gimble joints to the headband assembly.


----------



## K_19

mechgamer123 said:


> My SR-202 plastic creaks and feels a bit flimsy, but Miceblue's SR-207 does not creak or feel flimsy. *The tradeoff though is that Mice's 207 is significantly heavier.*


 
  
 This is something I noticed right away when I first picked up the 207's. From all I've read I expected a Lambda-frame Stax to be very light, but they were actually much more hefty than I expected (and thanks to that, feel very solid in hand).  Not heavy enough to be of a nuisance like some of the orthos though of course.


----------



## M-13

dairyproduce said:


> You guys have any idea what stax's new product cycle is like?


 
  
 Was just thinking about this the other day. Are we due for an update to the Omega 007 MkII and 727 amp or not really?


----------



## DairyProduce

I'd like to know as well


----------



## arnaud

Stax develops / markets products one at a time. Last we heard that had just released the new portable and were working on a new high end amp to go with the 009. It doesn't mean we might not see something else released before but my bet is on the T2 successor at this stage. For the cycle time, probably history can tell but I think it is product dependent and no less than 3-4 years.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Is Edifier crazy enough to support Stax selling a non-profitable hi-end amp ? I don't even know if SR-009 is profitable tough....
  
 Ali


----------



## arnaud

Stax is run like any business, obviously they're not selling at loss, but they indeed don't seem to have very large margins, in particular with their amps (I think I read spritzer saying this).


----------



## DefQon

For some reason I just can't see Stax building a T2 successor unless taking loss on each amp they sell despite them saying that is there goal in the future in that interview you conducted last year at the Stax HQ with Amos and Scott. Given how the current market, supply and demand for electrostatic amplifiers go.


----------



## shipsupt

Call it a T2 successor or not, I agree with Arnaud that STAX sees a need to build an amp for the 009.
  
 It would be a bit of a disappointment if it wasn't at that T2 sort of level, but as long as it's a high end offering worthy of their flag ship headphone I'm keen to see what they come up  with.


----------



## Golfnutz

I'm with DefQon, and was thinking the same thing. Too much money, too much competition. You'd be lucky to see a couple of people on these forums buy one.


----------



## shipsupt

There are plenty of people buying 009's, so priced proportionately I think it would sell, *if *it sounds good of course.  
  
 And with the depressed yen they can offer a lot of amp for the dollar.  Anyway, just speculating of course, so nice to think they might rock something interesting!


----------



## spritzer

Well it is impossible to build the T2 at this point without a major redesign, too many crucial parts are out of production and there are no replacements.  Then we have the sheer madness of the design and that Stax lost money on each and every one of them back in 1994 at 360kYen.  That product also wasn't complete as the T2 should never have seen the light of day in that setup.  None of them will age well and the transformers in every last one will burn up eventually. 
  
 On top if this we have the small issue that between the ECC99 and the EL34 there are pretty much no good tubes to use for this role.


----------



## MacedonianHero

spritzer said:


> Well it is impossible to build the T2 at this point without a major redesign, too many crucial parts are out of production and there are no replacements.  Then we have the sheer madness of the design and that Stax lost money on each and every one of them back in 1994 at 360kYen.  That product also wasn't complete as the T2 should never have seen the light of day in that setup.  None of them will age well and the transformers in every last one will burn up eventually.
> 
> On top if this we have the small issue that between the ECC99 and the EL34 there are pretty much no good tubes to use for this role.




Hi Brigir:

Didn't the original Stax T-2s have long term reliability issues that have been "fixed" with Kevin's DIY version?


----------



## georgep

My understanding is the Kevin Gilmore redesigned the psu (with the original being severely undersized) and it is only the amp section that is essentially the same as the original, just laid out differently. But Spritzer (or KG) is better positioned to confirm.


----------



## kevin gilmore

amplifier identical to the original. board layout and thermal design very different.
  
 original power supply was undersized and unregulated. In fact all stax electrostatic
 amplifiers other than the srm300 have unregulated power supplies.
 My power supply has all 5 high voltage supplies and the bias supply fully regulated.
 plus 2 regulated low voltage power supplies.
  
 Parts are still available to build more, but lots of fake parts out there.
 Another chassis run is in progress, I am not doing it.


----------



## MacedonianHero

georgep said:


> My understanding is the Kevin Gilmore redesigned the psu (with the original being severely undersized) and it is only the amp section that is essentially the same as the original, just laid out differently. But Spritzer (or KG) is better positioned to confirm.


 
  
  
 Quote:


kevin gilmore said:


> amplifier identical to the original. *board layout and thermal design very different.*
> 
> *original power supply was undersized and unregulated.* In fact all stax electrostatic
> amplifiers other than the srm300 have unregulated power supplies.
> ...


 
 Thanks guys for the confirmation...that would explain the better long term reliability.


----------



## Pier Paolo

Hi everyboyy here, I have been reading almost all the thread (the 1600 pages previous one) but I have not found the answer to my question, so I am now asking to you expert.
I have an SRS-202II and now I have bought a new SRM -323s.
Which Headphone would pair better with it: the 202 that I already have or some other like 307, 407 (is the 507 is too bright with 323s) or some other?
I hope that Spitzer and other expert here would help me in choosing.


----------



## spritzer

kevin gilmore said:


> amplifier identical to the original. board layout and thermal design very different.
> 
> original power supply was undersized and unregulated. In fact all stax electrostatic
> amplifiers other than the srm300 have unregulated power supplies.
> ...


 
  
 That pretty much covers it.  We still have parts to build DIY units but for a commercial product then that is not good enough. 
  
 My main issues with the SRM-T2, having lived with it for a few months was the annoying hum ever present and how hot it ran.  The DIY one isn't exactly cool but at least it tries to get the heat away from sensitive parts but not the SRM-T2.


----------



## graben

pier paolo said:


> Hi everyboyy here, I have been reading almost all the thread (the 1600 pages previous one) but I have not found the answer to my question, so I am now asking to you expert.
> I have an SRS-202II and now I have bought a new SRM -323s.
> Which Headphone would pair better with it: the 202 that I already have or some other like 307, 407 (is the 507 is too bright with 323s) or some other?
> I hope that Spitzer and other expert here would help me in choosing.


 
  
 I would just pair the 202 with it. From my experience they sound even better with a proper amp and may be all that you need.


----------



## Pier Paolo

Thanks Graben. it would be perfect, but If I would buy a second one?


----------



## 3X0

kevin gilmore said:


> In fact all stax electrostatic amplifiers other than the *srm300* have unregulated power supplies.


 
 Wow, that amp is cute! I like that it also functions as a headphone stand. Why did they abandon that tower design?


----------



## spritzer

Heat dissipation is a problem in that chassis design.  They did make a prototype SRM-353S though which looked awesome...


----------



## Nemeske88

Dear Forum,
  
 I am asking if there anyone who knows what is the main difference between these Stax amplifiers? (I mean in their circuits?)
  
 SRM T1 or T1s
  
 and the
  
SRM 600 LE or without LE
  
 Thank your for your answer!


----------



## kevin gilmore

Ecc99 vs 6cg7

Otherwise identical


----------



## Pier Paolo

pier paolo said:


> Hi everyboyy here, I have been reading almost all the thread (the 1600 pages previous one) but I have not found the answer to my question, so I am now asking to you expert.
> I have an SRS-202II and now I have bought a new SRM -323s.
> Which Headphone would pair better with it: the 202 that I already have or some other like 307, 407 (is the 507 is too bright with 323s) or some other?
> I hope that Spitzer and other expert here would help me in choosing.




Any other contribute?


----------



## DairyProduce

Is the only visible difference between SR-007 Mk1 and Mk2's the color? (champagne -> mk1, black -> mk2)?


----------



## steve2151

dairyproduce said:


> Is the only visible difference between SR-007 Mk1 and Mk2's the color? (champagne -> mk1, black -> mk2)?


 
  
  
 There are SR007MK1 with black pads and cable as well. Stax designates those as SR007BL.


----------



## paradoxper

dairyproduce said:


> Is the only visible difference between SR-007 Mk1 and Mk2's the color? (champagne -> mk1, black -> mk2)?


 
  
This was of big help for me.


----------



## NoPants

There are chassis differences between the mk1 and mk2 which change the sound for the worse moving forward, supposedly
  
 I believe there were some bass ports added, as well as changing the parts that held the cable strain reliefs in place


----------



## DairyProduce

Thanks!


----------



## jjinh

btw, there are also differences among all variants of the sr-007 mk1s!


----------



## DairyProduce

jjinh said:


> btw, there are also differences among all variants of the sr-007 mk1s!


 
  
 pray tell


----------



## spritzer

Quite substantial differences as well.


----------



## Nemeske88

kevin gilmore said:


> Ecc99 vs 6cg7
> 
> Otherwise identical


 
  
 Thanks!
 Well, I am not too deeply into energisers/amplifiers and their ,,sound signatures" (if It can be said this way) but can you describe the difference between these 2 kind of tubes?


----------



## schorsch

It





spritzer said:


> From the limited internal pictures I've seen it looks like a clone or the circuit is very similar to the one used in the ED-1.
> [/quotKg
> It also has an so called binaural mode which bring's a better Out of Head Realism into The game
> 
> Regards Georg


----------



## DairyProduce

spritzer said:


> Quite substantial differences as well.


 
  
 What are those differences?
  
 Are you referring to this?: http://www.soundbsessive.com/room/?p=467


----------



## Pier Paolo

Spitzer, did you read my previous post? I am very interested in your opinion. Tks


----------



## Argybargy

spritzer said:


> Quite substantial differences as well.




Was there a version before the one with the carbon fiber case and the weak strain relief?


----------



## kevin gilmore

Since mine are serial number 50 and have the carbon fiber case, I would say
Unlikely


----------



## Pier Paolo

I have received my new 323s today and now I am hearing it with my SR-202. My first impression is that the sound is a little muffled in the treble section if iompared to the 212. Do you think that a burn- in time is necessary? And, in that case, how many hours would be sufficient? The 202 is an old one and it is well burned-in.


----------



## jjinh

I wish I had the nicer looking carbon fibre case, or even just the foam with the headphone-shaped cut-out that came with those cases...


----------



## DefQon

pier paolo said:


> I have received my new 323s today and now I am hearing it with my SR-202. My first impression is that the sound is a little muffled in the treble section if iompared to the 212. Do you think that a burn- in time is necessary? And, in that case, how many hours would be sufficient? The 202 is an old one and it is well burned-in.


 
  
 I preferred the 202 off my Xh, 212 and the 252 from the 207 package than my 323S. The LP and 404 was nice off the 323S. Not a bad amp I must say.


----------



## Pier Paolo

And what do you think about the 407/507 off the 323s?


----------



## DefQon

Never tried the 407/507 off the 323S. Tried the 407 briefly off a 007t and the 507 off a KGSS and 727, 006t, my xh, 212 and 252. Dislike the 507's offending bright high end or tilt off the treble, it was just so cold and dry sounding. Unfortunately thinking powering them off my SRD-7sb MK2 fed by a $6k tube amp would tone down the sound a bit, nope and nadda it was still there. 407 sounded bit better. Prefer my 202 to both of them. Prefer the 007mk1 to all of the above and prefer my briefly owned Omega 1's to everything (because it is the only high end Stax I've ever owned) hehe bias.
  
 But seriously I love the SR-5's more than anything.


----------



## Pier Paolo

So, at the end of the day, which HP do you think I should pair to my 323s to obtain the best results?


----------



## spritzer

kevin gilmore said:


> Since mine are serial number 50 and have the carbon fiber case, I would say
> Unlikely


 
  
  Yup, that is the oldest version.  Later they changed the drivers, the "soft" material and did further tweaks but all at the expense of the sound quality.


----------



## Clsmooth391

Can someone please tell me what the diffreneces are in sound between the SRM-717 and the SRM-727 (with and without the feedback mod). I have the SRM-717 with the SR-009 and was wondering if the 727 would be an upgrade.


----------



## antonyfirst

The improvement is not that significant, if you perform only the feedback mod. 727 modded is better, but not to the extent of wanting to swap.
 The quality improves on both strongly if you overhaul the output stage, but it's a harder kind of mod.
 In either case, the feedback mod would be the first thing to do on the 727.


----------



## Clsmooth391

antonyfirst said:


> The improvement is not that significant, if you perform only the feedback mod. 727 modded is better, but not to the extent of wanting to swap.
> The quality improves on both strongly if you overhaul the output stage, but it's a harder kind of mod.
> In either case, the feedback mod would be the first thing to do on the 727.


 
  
 Thank you so much for that.


----------



## rx79ez08

Does anyone know how to change the headpad of a Lambda?
 Is it a matter of unscrewing the screw on each size of the headpad?


----------



## davidsh

rx79ez08 said:


> Does anyone know how to change the headpad of a Lambda?
> Is it a matter of unscrewing the screw on each size of the headpad?


 
 No it isn't. It took me hours to restick the pads on my old Lambda Sig, since they are glued with some glue/double adhessive thing, which I had to remove completely before using some new double sided adhessive.
 So, the pads are pretty much glued onto the frame.


----------



## dukeskd

rx79ez08 said:


> Does anyone know how to change the headpad of a Lambda?
> Is it a matter of unscrewing the screw on each size of the headpad?


 

 Yes, you just unscrew where you see the "star" shaped bolt. Be careful when you do so as the parts are very small and get easily lost.


----------



## Currawong

defqon said:


> For some reason I just can't see Stax building a T2 successor unless taking loss on each amp they sell despite them saying that is there goal in the future in that interview you conducted last year at the Stax HQ with Amos and Scott. Given how the current market, supply and demand for electrostatic amplifiers go.


 
  
 They can't keep up with 009 sales and given the 1+ year wait for a BHSE, if they can do the amp for $5k and keep it in stock then they have a market. They also have distributors and retailers, which none of the other 'stat amp makers do.


----------



## DefQon

rx79ez08 said:


> Does anyone know how to change the headpad of a Lambda?
> Is it a matter of unscrewing the screw on each size of the headpad?


 
 If you're talking about the original normal bias Lambda (i.e. old headband arc assembly), you would need to remove the 2 screws on each side of the miniature plastic holders, the logo's stuck on each side have adhesive (double sided tape) underneath holding the joint of the plastic holders. You may use a thin philips head screwdriver to pry it open from underneath the opening. 
  
 Once open and becareful, there is a small spring and a round flat piece that works in conjunction with the headband slider on the arc. If you lose either of these you're out of luck. Once placed carefully aside, unhook the round puncture of the headband from the plastic holder and pull through the outer flat opening. Do the same for the other side. Headbands can be replaced with modern or NOS parts.
  


davidsh said:


> No it isn't. It took me hours to restick the pads on my old Lambda Sig, since they are glued with some glue/double adhessive thing, which I had to remove completely before using some new double sided adhessive.
> So, the pads are pretty much glued onto the frame.


 
  
 What da schit are you on about son? All Lambda earspeakers have a screw required to be removed to have full access to the headband. OP asked for headpad/headband swapping not earpads lol.


----------



## DefQon

currawong said:


> They can't keep up with 009 sales and given the 1+ year wait for a BHSE,* if they* can do the amp for $5k and keep it in stock then they have a market. They also have distributors and retailers, which none of the other 'stat amp makers do.


 
  
 I've underlined and bolded the important part. If they are able to source the correct and appropriate parts capable of HV in the circuitry without the final amplifier costing beyond $5k than they may be able to pull off another T2 moniker high-end status amp. That's if they can. But I don't know about you but I think a T2 alike amp would be produced in much more limited numbers than the 009 earspeakers themselves. Given that they will have to source electronic parts from other manufacturers and such as almost none of the circuit parts will be produced in house unlike the earspeakers.


----------



## eric65

For information.
  
 You can listen directly, to the Stax SR-009 headphones, plugged directly into the amplifier Audiovalve RKV mk2, by bypassing the transformator amplifier input Wee (1:50 ratio) but keeping the bias voltage of 580 Volts of the Wee on housing on the 5th pin of theheadphone output jack Wee.
 Advantage: undeniable increased transparency and presence.
 Inconveniant: the listening level is limited below 100 dB SPL (for a maximum output level of the RKV amplifier limited to 80 volts on OTL mode).
  
 The final level of quality for headphones on the 009 with the RKV no output transformers (no impedancer) or input (bypassing the transformer amplification of Wee) may exceed that of the Electra !
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/681814/amplifiers-shootout-for-stax-009-eddie-current-electra-audiovalve-rkv-wooaudio-wee-stax-srm727-srm007t2/30#post_9874692


----------



## DefQon

I want the SRM-353S and the SRM-1 Pro. I will gladly offer $1000 for either model if somebody finds one.


----------



## Currawong

defqon said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > They can't keep up with 009 sales and given the 1+ year wait for a BHSE,* if they* can do the amp for $5k and keep it in stock then they have a market. They also have distributors and retailers, which none of the other 'stat amp makers do.
> ...


 
 It would be no different to how the amps are produced now, nor the earspeakers, most parts of which are made by external companies. Agreed about the "if" though.


----------



## davidsh

eric65 said:


> For information.
> 
> You can listen directly, to the Stax SR-009 headphones, plugged directly into the amplifier Audiovalve RKV mk2, by bypassing the transformator amplifier input Wee (1:50 ratio) but keeping the bias voltage of 580 Volts of the Wee on housing on the 5th pin of theheadphone output jack Wee.
> Advantage: undeniable increased transparency and presence.
> ...


 

 I guess the audiovalve wouldn't be happy to push such high voltages, wouldn't distortion be an issue? It's not much headroom after all.


----------



## eric65

davidsh said:


> I guess the audiovalve wouldn't be happy to push such high voltages, wouldn't distortion be an issue? It's not much headroom after all.


 
  
 With 6-10 volts average output voltage at the output of RKV (on a maximum 80 volts) for listening to an average level of 74-80 dB, and a load> 2 KOhms, there is no audible distortion. The degree of transparency and presence of sound is exceptional with 009 Stax headphones (without the 1:50 Wee transformers (bypassed)).
  
 Otherwise, the RKV amplifier is used directly (without Wee transformator) to gain a high voltage (6-12 volts average ; maxi 80 Volts RMS), but with a very low power: maybe 40 mWatts to maximum output voltage of 80 volts RMS for a Stax 009 with an 145 KOhms impedance. (NB: the RKV can produce 3 Watts with a load of 200 Ohms)


----------



## arnaud

It is surprising the amplifier can handle a completely different load (I mean a mostly capactive load vs. the typical resistive / inductive load of dynamic or orthodynamic phone) than it was intended to drive.

You're a brave soldier Eric, I hope your gear survives the ordeal


----------



## kevin gilmore

any balanced solid state amplifier can do this.
 krell fpb 600 can do 400vppss. I tried it. Sounds very nice
 but still a bit low on volume.
  
 krell master reference amps can do at least 600vppss.
  
 none of these amplifiers will even see the headphones
 as a load, just run as open impedance.


----------



## perrew

So I guess a pair of Audio-GD Master-2s would do something similar(at a slightly lower price though)?


----------



## kevin gilmore

same voltage swing (roughly) as fpb600.
 have not actually measured it yet.


----------



## spritzer

In the same vein there is a design pretty much ready for a proper push-pull electrostatic amp that can run at even higher voltages than the KGSSHV.  Almost all of the 'stat amps have single ended output stages but this one is fully complimentary...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Makes the T2 look simple though...


----------



## kevin gilmore

Its called the TOGTE and it uses +/-750 volt power supplies.
  
 which does seem to scare some people.
  
 works with currently available parts. one of these days I will
 finish the board.


----------



## davidsh

Decided to power up my lambda sigs after several weeks of collecting dust. They have worked for 2.5 hour straigth, no channel imbalance, but suddenly this screechy/squealing sound manifests...


----------



## shipsupt

davidsh said:


> after several weeks of collecting dust.


 
  
 Hopefully not literally, or that may be your issue.


----------



## davidsh

I must say that dust is pretty noisy, lol. I have had similar issues before, also with channel imbalance. Only reason why I post again (besides that it upsets me) is that I just can't seem to understand how dust can cause such weird things. Ohh well.


----------



## mangler

kevin gilmore said:


> Its called the TOGTE and it uses +/-750 volt power supplies.




TOGTE = This One Goes To Eleven ?


----------



## livewire

mangler said:


> TOGTE = This One Goes To Eleven ?


 
  
 Yup! Thazzit.
  
 Prolly total overkill for anything Stax. But waddoo I know?


----------



## eric65

eric65 said:


> With 6-10 volts average output voltage at the output of RKV (on a maximum 80 volts) for listening to an average level of 74-80 dB, and a load> 2 KOhms, there is no audible distortion. The degree of transparency and presence of sound is exceptional with 009 Stax headphones (without the 1:50 Wee transformers (bypassed)).
> 
> Otherwise, the RKV amplifier is used directly (without Wee transformator) to gain a high voltage (6-12 volts average ; maxi 80 Volts RMS), but with a very low power: maybe 40 mWatts to maximum output voltage of 80 volts RMS for a Stax 009 with an 145 KOhms impedance. (NB: the RKV can produce 3 Watts with a load of 200 Ohms)


 
  
  
 Hello.
  
 Potentiometer RKV 15 h (mean level "medium to high" loudly enough for me): 7.42 Volts (77.5 dB SPL)
  


  
  
 Potentiometer RKV to 17 h (max) (mean level "strong" too hard for me): 12.72 Volts (83 dB SPL)
  


  

 Potentiometer fully RKV (17 h) and with the Wee transformers bypassed, I just registered to a peak voltmeter level of at least 56 volts on a percussion (large drum) in a jazz recording of Henry Texier "Mad Nomads" that corresponds to a peak noise level of at least 96 dB SPL !
  
 Otherwise, I always confirms the high degree of transparency and clarity of sound, and the realism and the strong presence of the vote.
 Always zero audible breath.
  
 Finally, the RKV amp has not given up the ghost and I do not see how it could do with a load of nominal output of 145 KOhms.
  
 Eric


----------



## eric65

Be careful.
  
 To operate the combo RKV-Wee with enough gain (the transformators Wee shunted), it is imperative that the source (dac) has an output with an enough high level ; if it is not the case, the amplification gain of the RKV will be too weak to reach an average level expected of listening of 80 to 84 dB SPL (enough to use) and  a maximal (peak) modulation of 96 to 100 dB SPL.


----------



## rx79ez08

Anyone have any experience with the WooAudio GES?


----------



## spritzer

livewire said:


> Yup! Thazzit.
> 
> Prolly total overkill for anything Stax. But waddoo I know?


 
  
 Well any Stax headphone will not like going past 1200Vp-p so yeah... pretty much overkill


----------



## Pier Paolo

I am biasing an SRM-600 ltd.
 My question is: when measuring the dc balance and offset, the volume potentiometer (pot) should be in which position: at zero or at max or indifferent?
 Thank for help.


----------



## spritzer

Doesn't matter unless you have DC from the source which would be a pretty bad thing.


----------



## Pier Paolo

Oh, but I will measure without input signal connected. It is OK?


----------



## eric65

For information : test in France Stax SRM-T2 + SR-009 : disappointing results.
  

  
 Links (in french)
  
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177806096.html#p177806096
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177806821.html#p177806821


----------



## spritzer

pier paolo said:


> Oh, but I will measure without input signal connected. It is OK?


 
  
 Yes, that is perfectly fine.


----------



## livewire

eric65 said:


> For information : test in France Stax SRM-T2 + SR-009 : disappointing results.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 So swapping the tubes helped a bit...
 Just guessing here, replacing all of the old capacitors and a general "tune-up" would help as well.
 Curious how the T2 performed with the Omegas?


----------



## Lornecherry

As much as this test is informative; they had no 717  (OK, not so important as it's no longer made) ...but no BHSE...is not that amp based somewhat on the T2 with modernization and many upgraded components? (Alps, etc). Still the best sounding amp with 007 or 009 that I've heard and hence the benchmark for comparisons such as this.


----------



## livewire

Benchmarks? Woo-Wee!


----------



## Pier Paolo

Hi, my 600 ltd is arrived and I am trying to biasing it. I can set the DC balance near to zero volts, but I can't set the DC offset: values are too high, near to -200V. 
This is strange. i have measured also the DC offset value with the unit OFF and I have -70V. Someone can help?


----------



## spritzer

It is not possible to have DC offset with the amplifier turned off.


----------



## Pier Paolo

i know, but there is. -70 V. If I unplug the amp it goes to zero.


----------



## georgep

Weird. The voltage should at least rapidly decline once you switch the power off.... Can you post a photo of how you are measuring as well as tell us which pots you are adjusting to affect balance and offset. Also, was this unit modified in any way by a previous owner?


----------



## Pier Paolo

The unit is a 600ltd. I measure with a multimeter in VDC at the right scale. I read the dc balance for left channel at pins 1 (+) and 5(-) and right channel at pins 3 and 4 (clockwise starting from NOON. I measure offset at positive pin of each channel and negative at ground on the rear panel. I rotate the balance pot for dc balance and the offset pot for offset for each channel. The unit is not modified at all.


----------



## georgep

I am not familar with that model, but understand that Stax normally has the pots labelled backwards - so "balance" would adjust offset and "offset" would adjust balance. Spritzer would be able to confirm this. Still puzzled by your -70v though....


----------



## Pier Paolo

Ah, I forgot to mention that the sound was distorted as soon as the volume pass the 5 mark (12)


----------



## georgep

" at pins 3 and 4"

Sorry, you mean pins 2 and 4? I think based on your numbering, that pin 3 is bias, not output.

Also, why were you adjusting the unit to start with - did it have the distortion before you started adjusting?


----------



## Pier Paolo

Yes, 2 and 4 and yes it was distorted after half volume


----------



## DefQon

ECC99 tubes gone bad? Pop the cover off and see if anything is burnt or out of the norm, including the solder tracers underneath the board as well for any shorts. AC voltage input set to correct matching country AC.


----------



## kevin gilmore

A number of these units had bad plate resistors.

Measure the resistance with the power off for at least 30 minutes.


----------



## tdogzthmn

I have a modded SRM-600 Limited and think it sounds wonderful.  Some shots of the interior.


----------



## eric65

Hello everyone,
  
 Always, for information.
  
 SRM T2 amp listening seems to be improving "hot".
  
  
  
  

  

  

  

  

  
 Here an direct comparison for SRM T2 Vs SRM 727 on 009 and an indirect comparison for SRM T2, Vs SRM 727 Vs RKV-WEE on 009 (with not shunted and shunted Wee transformers)
  
 See links (in french)
 (you can use google translator)
  
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177810847.html#p177810847
  
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177811772.html#p177811772
  
 PS : It used SRM T2 is currently for sale in France
  
http://www.casques-headphones.com/les-bonnes-affaires/381-stax-srm-t2.html#


----------



## Pier Paolo

Thank You all.
 Kevin, I will check everything. Do you have a schematic, please? I have got a 600 schematic but I would prefere the 600ltd one to be sure.


----------



## kevin gilmore

no difference between the two as far as I know. will look later.


----------



## Dafo

defqon said:


> I preferred the 202 off my Xh, 212 and the 252 from the 207 package than my 323S. The LP and 404 was nice off the 323S. Not a bad amp I must say.




Why do you prefer the 252 to the 323s?


----------



## Pier Paolo

Ok, tonight, home from work, I will check.
 TKS again


----------



## eric65

eric65 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Always, for information.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Amp SRM T2 sold this morning (at a Polish)


----------



## spritzer

The pots on the SRM-600 are correctly labeled so standard T1 biasing setup is all you need.  In the T1 the labels for the pots are reversed but the part numbers are correct:
  

  
 This one has been changed to ECC99's but here it is quite clear that the balance and offset labels are wrong. 
  
 The offset being at -70V makes no sense though after the amp has turned off.  The tubes have stopped conducting but if the anode resistors are shot then  that might account for it while the caps discharge. 
  
 Quote:


tdogzthmn said:


> I have a modded SRM-600 Limited and think it sounds wonderful.  Some shots of the interior.


 
  
 I'm so going to save these pics.  I love these utterly clueless mods which cost a pile and just degrade the perfomance.  Seriously, who thought it was a good idea to side mount the caps that are supposed to be close to the circuit?


----------



## realmassy

^ yeah but the green is so nice -


----------



## Pier Paolo

Yes, 4 of the 8 the plate (anode) resistors were broken: 2 for each channel: 50%, like the statistic. I have measured them and 4 (2for each channel) were 29,5K but one was 1000k an three were 600-900k. So, I have bought 16 new standard resistors 15K/2watt/5% (the 30k ones are very difficult to find here) and next sunday I will mount then in series at the place of the old ones. I hope that this would be enough. Do you think that 2Watth and 5% would be fine?


----------



## kevin gilmore

That will be fine but the resistors should be non-inductive film resistors
For best performance


----------



## tdogzthmn

I can't comment on why he modded it in this fashion, I know he's not totally unfamiliar with energizer schematics but I can testify that I works and sounds fantastic with my SR-507.  Very clean and neutral without fatigue during extended listening sessions.


----------



## RedBull

spritzer said:


> I'm so going to save these pics.  I love these utterly clueless mods which cost a pile and just degrade the perfomance.  Seriously, who thought it was a good idea to side mount the caps that are supposed to be close to the circuit?




It looks that the 'hulk' caps are too tall to be soldered vertically?


----------



## DefQon

realmassy said:


> ^ yeah but the green is so nice -


 
 It's all about the green....except mine ain't as bad as that one and only rebuilt the sections of the amp that needed as spritzer likes to put it 'some TLC'.
  

  
 I have a handful of these Russian K42Y-2 0.022uf 1kv caps and enjoyed having them in some of my other amps so why not, replaced the old ceramics that were in there. My mind might be playing tricks on me but the amp sounds brilliant with the SR-5's, the K42Y rolls off the upper registers just enough to tame some of the bright end treble of the SR-5, sounds bloody brilliant, enjoy this combo more so than anything else I've heard or owned.
  

  
 BTW, does anybody here know what these particular 60's diode are called? (Definitely not selenium or germanium, early based silicon?)


----------



## complin

There must be something wrong with your T2 as it is by far the best Stax amp bar none! 
 It must need a service or some refurbishment. It won't sound its best until it has warmed up so 30 minutes minimum an hour even better.
  
 I have had all the Stax amps vintage and new stuff and the only ones that come close to the original T2 are IMO Kevin Gilmores' designs.  The BHSE or the DIY T2.  I can't comment on the Electra as never heard one 
  
 Quote:


livewire said:


> So swapping the tubes helped a bit...
> Just guessing here, replacing all of the old capacitors and a general "tune-up" would help as well.
> Curious how the T2 performed with the Omegas?


----------



## spritzer

pier paolo said:


> Yes, 4 of the 8 the plate (anode) resistors were broken: 2 for each channel: 50%, like the statistic. I have measured them and 4 (2for each channel) were 29,5K but one was 1000k an three were 600-900k. So, I have bought 16 new standard resistors 15K/2watt/5% (the 30k ones are very difficult to find here) and next sunday I will mount then in series at the place of the old ones. I hope that this would be enough. Do you think that 2Watth and 5% would be fine?


 
  
 To echo what Kevin said, stay with either metal or carbon film.  Vishay makes some excellent 2W metal films and the Koa SPR2 carbon film units I use are also great. 
  


tdogzthmn said:


> I can't comment on why he modded it in this fashion, I know he's not totally unfamiliar with energizer schematics but I can testify that I works and sounds fantastic with my SR-507.  Very clean and neutral without fatigue during extended listening sessions.


 
  
 It's quite clear that the person who did this has no clue what so ever as to what the parts do and why they are there.  Measure this monstrosity against the stock amp and it will be far worse, there is no doubt about that. 
  


defqon said:


> BTW, does anybody here know what these particular 60's diode are called? (Definitely not selenium or germanium, early based silicon?)


 
  
 "Silicon Diode-1"  :-D
  


complin said:


>





> There must be something wrong with your T2 as it is by far the best Stax amp bar none!
> It must need a service or some refurbishment. It won't sound its best until it has warmed up so 30 minutes minimum an hour even better.
> 
> I have had all the Stax amps vintage and new stuff and the only ones that come close to the original T2 are IMO Kevin Gilmores' designs.  The BHSE or the DIY T2.  I can't comment on the Electra as never heard one


 
  
 No chance a stock T2 sounds even close to spec after all this time.  The caps are all perished and it needs to be adjusted up to spec again.  Filament transformer is probably on its last legs too as they will all fail in the T2. 
  
 Also T2 with the stock tubes...  wow they are bad.


----------



## Pier Paolo

Hi Spitz, I have bought 16x15 kohm, 5watts, 2% non inductive carbon film resistor made in japan (i could not find the 30k and the 2w was only 14). Now I cant recall the brand, but it is the same light green that you used to upgrade a T1 to a 600ltd (i have read your posts). Tonight I will operate and install them. I hope this (and biasing) will solve.


----------



## DefQon

pier paolo said:


> Hi Spitz, I have bought 16x15 kohm, 5watts, 2% non inductive carbon film resistor made in japan (i could not find the 30k and the 2w was only 14). Now I cant recall the brand, but it is the same light green that you used to upgrade a T1 to a 600ltd (i have read your posts). Tonight I will operate and install them. I hope this (and biasing) will solve.




Kiwame? They are also green and made in Japan, great resistors.


----------



## Pier Paolo

Yes, Kiwame. I have changed them tonight. Mounted in series 8 X (15k +15k). 
Now I can set both DC balance and DC OFFSET NEAR TO ZERO (0,2-0,4 mV both and both channels), finally. After two hours the values were stable. The sound is perfect, all the distortion is gone. WOW!
The only thing that I can't understand is that I can measure near to 25 V offset also after having turned off the unit AND also unplugged. My friend said that it is normal because of the capacitors... Tomorrow I will check again after 12 hours unplugged. It is strange that STAX has not inserted a resistor to discharge the capacitors after switched off.


----------



## DefQon

I don't think bleeder resistors are required to negate/discharge the capacitors after power off in Stax amplifiers.


----------



## Pier Paolo

After 12 hours unplugged, DC offset is still +32V. Then I have measured the resistors again (unit off for 12 housr, without tubes) and the value is 28,8 kohm for each couple of two nominally 15kohm solded in series. After that I have plugged the ampli an measured again DC Balance and Offset: values ok and stable..


----------



## kevin gilmore

there are no discharge resistors on any of the stax amps.
 the solid state ones can discharge thru the rest of the circuit
 but on the tube amp, once the tubes turn off, any charge in
 the positive cap will stay there because there is nothing to
 discharge it.  1M across each of the power caps will take care
 of this.


----------



## Pier Paolo

I see, Kevin. I could add that 1M, If this would be a good thing, but if this is not a problem I would leave it be. 
What do you think about the 28.8 khom that I read on the new resistor values: is this value ok or is it too low? It is strange because the resistor are 2% and when I measure before mounting the value is 14.8 k for each.......


----------



## kevin gilmore

its going to measure a bit low because you are also measuring the 3 x 51k feedback
 resistors to the input stage. The resistors are fine.


----------



## Pier Paolo

Tank You Kevin, I am really impressed by your competence.


----------



## Pier Paolo

Next steps: bleeding capacitors and new pots to set the dc values more easely: now is a REAL pain in...


----------



## schorsch

Always a pleasure to read this thread)

Regards Georg


----------



## Pier Paolo

This afternoon, on the wings of the happiness of the success with my SRM-600, I have set also the gain on my SRM-323s. Despite te procedure is the same, I would have expected to reach zero dc and offset easily. Wrong! I only could set 150-200 mV (balance or offset, do not remember) and the other to zero for both channels. The pots are different from the tube unit and they work better, but I cannot reach zero.


----------



## MohawkUS

My SR-5NB Golds are finally up for sale.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/686653/stax-sr-5nb-gold-srd-6sb#post_9903856

Also, if anyone has a headband that would work with these, I may be interested in purchasing it. I feel kinda guilty selling these in this condition, though they are perfectly usable.


----------



## DefQon

I'd grab those but they are a bit on the high side considering you can get a Lambda NB with an adaptor for around the same price.


----------



## Pier Paolo

Now that the 600ltd problem with the plate resistor is solved, I have to decide wich earphones buy to couple with the amp. I have a 202 and I like it very much but probably I should buy a 507 or a 407. Any suggestion?


----------



## mechgamer123

Well, if you don't want to spend a ton of money, you may want to look into just getting some SR-507 pads for your 202? That's what I did and I'm very satisfied with the overall product. Haven't heard the 404/407/507 to compare it to, but both me and a Sr-207 owner with stock pads were more impressed with my 202s than his 207s.


----------



## Pier Paolo

Tks, but with wich amp?


----------



## mechgamer123

pier paolo said:


> Tks, but with wich amp?


 
 I thought you said you had fixed your 600ltd amp and you were looking for headphone pairings for it?


----------



## Pier Paolo

Oh, yes, of course, thanks. I will keep the 600 but also the 323s, so i will need two earphones ans so I am deciding which......


----------



## DefQon

Keep both the amps unless you find a 717 and mod it then use that to replace the 323S.


----------



## wink

Quoteier paolo 





> This afternoon, on the wings of the happiness of the success with my SRM-600, I have set also the gain on my SRM-323s. Despite te procedure is the same, I would have expected to reach zero dc and offset easily. Wrong!* I only could set 150-200 mV* (balance or offset, do not remember) and the other to zero for both channels. The pots are different from the tube unit and they work better, but I cannot reach zero.


 
 These aren't like for dynamic headphones. 
  
 Anything below 1 Volt is perfectly fine.


----------



## Pier Paolo

Yes, I know, but I thought that the solid state would have been easier than the tubes one.


----------



## wink

The problem with offset in a dynamic system is the offset voltage causes dc current to flow through the headphone's voice coil which can burn it out.
  
 With an electrostatic earpiece, the offset will not damaget the transducer, because it is effectively a capacitor which charges up and discharges.
 i.e. no voice coil to burn out.


----------



## davidsh

So why bother with it in the first place?


----------



## Pier Paolo

Because of the distortion when dc balance and offset are too high


----------



## kevin gilmore

Actually if the offset is too high the headphone bias can
End up too high and this will damage the headphones.

The gain of the amp is high enough to make accurate dc zero
A tough setting with 1 turn pots.

All my newest stuff has a servo for this reason.


----------



## Pier Paolo

Please kevin, define "too high".


----------



## kevin gilmore

30 volts negative to ground is approaching too high.
  
 Which is why when the plate resistors open up, the
 voltage can sink to -300 pretty easily making the
 bias 880v. Not a good thing.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

defqon said:


> I'd grab those but they are a bit on the high side considering you can get a Lambda NB with an adaptor for around the same price.


 
 Same thing for me...and I have a SR-5 headband in perfect shape 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## Pier Paolo

Thanks Kevin, that was exactly my 600 situation.


----------



## shipsupt

defqon said:


> Keep both the amps unless you find a 717 and mod it then use that to replace the 323S.


 
  
 What 717 mods would you recommend?


----------



## DefQon

Forgot to add the 727 in that sentence. The 717 is probably the best amp out of the lot if you're driving anything up to the O2's which does a fine job. I'm not sure which amp it was but it can be modded to a near identical KGSS, antonyfist can chime in on this extensive mod.


----------



## tdogzthmn

I'm really happy with the performance of my SRD-7/SB paired with my 2W SET amp.  It is incredibly detailed and clear but the sound is silky smooth.  Reminded me of the Sennheiser HE-6 + Cavalli Audio Liquid lightning combo I herd at the Bay Area meet up last year.  The gain is not that extended as other dedicated STAX amps but I find it easily reaches a satisfactory volume with the music I play.  For being a relatively cheap component the SRD-7/SB is very satisfying to use.


----------



## DefQon

tdogzthmn said:


> I'm really happy with the performance of my SRD-7/SB paired with my 2W SET amp.  It is incredibly detailed and clear but the sound is silky smooth.  Reminded me of the *Sennheiser HE-6 + Cavalli Audio Liquid lightning* combo I herd at the Bay Area meet up last year.  The gain is not that extended as other dedicated STAX amps but I find it easily reaches a satisfactory volume with the music I play.  For being a relatively cheap component the SRD-7/SB is very satisfying to use.


 
 You mean HE-60?


----------



## bbest

Hi guys!

I have STAX 507 and custom amp. Not so long ago, one of headphone sounds too quiet compared to normal one. I disassambled "problemed" headphone and wiped with alcohol staters. May be they became clean from fat and dust. Sound after that became more louder. But it still had some artifactes - too meager sound. And now surfaced one more bug: "problemed" heaadphone has white nois. This noise head in silent pauses and even when all headphones disonnected from amp! (noise head 10-15 secs). So I have some questions:
1) Why this noise sounds in "problemed" headphone? Why headphone could sound quietly?
2) How could I clean membrane of STAX - alcohol, acetone or something like that?


----------



## chinsettawong

The nosie in the headphones is a common problem with electrostatic headphones.  Overtime, the dust or moisture could evetually find their way into the driver.  Fixing this problem isn't that easy, unfortunately.
  
 You never, ever want to clean the diaphragm with alcohol or acetone.  If you do that you'll wipe out the coating material on the diaphragm.  You'll end up destroying it.
  
 Try to clean the stators as best as you can.  If you see some dust on the diaphragm, you can try blowing it off or use a small brush to gently wipe it off. 
  
 Good luck.
  
 Wachara C.


----------



## bbest

chinsettawong said:


> The nosie in the headphones is a common problem with electrostatic headphones.  Overtime, the dust or moisture could evetually find their way into the driver.  Fixing this problem isn't that easy, unfortunately.
> 
> You never, ever want to clean the diaphragm with alcohol or acetone.  If you do that you'll wipe out the coating material on the diaphragm.  You'll end up destroying it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 too bad too bad! I thought that it is some desision of this problem. May be exists some liquids for STAX's diaphragm?
 Or where could buy repaire diaphragm?


----------



## davidsh

If Stax just could make some earspeakers WITHOUT such damn issues. I am having a problem myself..


----------



## chinsettawong

bbest said:


> too bad too bad! I thought that it is some desision of this problem. May be exists some liquids for STAX's diaphragm?
> Or where could buy repaire diaphragm?


 
  
 I'm not sure what you want to do.  Have you already cleaned the diaphragm using alcohol or acetone? 
  
 Recoating the diaphragm isn't difficult at all.  But you need to know what you're doing.
  
 Please have a look at my thread:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/498292/my-diy-electrostatic-headphones 
  
 I'm sure you can learn a lot from there.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Wachara C.


----------



## chinsettawong

davidsh said:


> If Stax just could make some earspeakers WITHOUT such damn issues. I am having a problem myself..


 
  
 There are a lot of Stax headphones that don't have this issue at all and have been working perfectly for many decades.  
  
 The most important thing is that you need to really take good care of  the dust cover.  If you happen to pinch even a tiny hole on it, the moisture and dust can eventually go in and cause all kinds of problem.
  
 Wachara C.


----------



## davidsh

^Ohh gawd, really need to do something to my lambda sig's. Bought them second hand and there are substantial holes in the dust cover on 1 diaphragm. On the other, there's already problems with imbalance and probably dust in the driver.


----------



## complin

You can buy small cans of compressed air with a nozzle attached for blowing out dust from electrical equipment etc like laptops. keyboards.
 Might be worth a try. 
 Maybe need to neutralise any static charge first as well which might be attracting the dust
  
 Quote:


chinsettawong said:


> The nosie in the headphones is a common problem with electrostatic headphones.  Overtime, the dust or moisture could evetually find their way into the driver.  Fixing this problem isn't that easy, unfortunately.
> 
> You never, ever want to clean the diaphragm with alcohol or acetone.  If you do that you'll wipe out the coating material on the diaphragm.  You'll end up destroying it.
> 
> ...


----------



## En_R

> You can buy small cans of compressed air with a nozzle attached for blowing out dust from electrical equipment etc like laptops. keyboards.
> Might be worth a try.
> Maybe need to neutralise any static charge first as well which might be attracting the dust


 
  
 I'm thinking this will damage the drivers.


----------



## 3X0

What's fair market value for the SR-Omega these days (original drivers, mint condition)?

Is there anything I should be weary of in caring for them? Curious as to why they have some history of driver failure.

Yes, I am now the owner of a SR-Omega (with nothing to drive them but a SRM-323S and SRM-T1S ).


----------



## DefQon

3x0 said:


> What's fair market value for the SR-Omega these days (original drivers, mint condition)?
> 
> Is there anything I should be weary of in caring for them? Curious as to why they have some history of driver failure.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This question has been asked a few times. Judging from some of my PM's I've had with other Omega owners and certain experienced users, the price is set out to be around $3400-4200, I got mine for $3500 earlier this year after Euro to Aud conversion, sold them for the same amount. Anything over $3800 expect it to be near flawless and anything over $4000 expect it to be absolutely NOS, otherwise you're dealing with a flipper.
  
 Some Omega's have O2 drivers but the seller should note this if it has been replaced, which is what Stax will do should your O1 drivers break down, they replace it with the latest MK2 drivers.
  
 I found the O1's to be pretty good even off the T1S I tried, but it was better off a diy BH (not nattonrice's).
  
 Btw what happened to your borked HE60?


----------



## En_R

3x0 said:


> What's fair market value for the SR-Omega these days (original drivers, mint condition)?
> 
> Is there anything I should be weary of in caring for them? Curious as to why they have some history of driver failure.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You should try searching yahoo.jp auctions. Price is around 2500$ USD there for a decent set. Secondhand on head-fi is 3500$ + (without box), 4000+ with box and in decent condition.

 Should look for later serials since the drivers are prone to failure.


----------



## DefQon

Not many cheap Omegas sell for that amount even on YJ?


----------



## 3X0

Thanks for the intel. Does anyone know why SR-Omega drivers are so prone to failure? Is there some preventive maintenance that can be done?

I'll be selling my HE60/HEV70 soon completely as-is. Never got the opportunity to get them checked out by Moon-Audio or Sennheiser.


----------



## bbest

chinsettawong said:


> I'm not sure what you want to do.  Have you already cleaned the diaphragm using alcohol or acetone?


 
  
 No - I don't clean diaphragm with alcohol yet. Just only suggested to do it.
  
 Thanks for suggesting of useful thread


----------



## spritzer

complin said:


>





> You can buy small cans of compressed air with a nozzle attached for blowing out dust from electrical equipment etc like laptops. keyboards.
> Might be worth a try.
> Maybe need to neutralise any static charge first as well which might be attracting the dust


 
  
 That would be a very bad idea. 
  


3x0 said:


> Thanks for the intel. Does anyone know why SR-Omega drivers are so prone to failure? Is there some preventive maintenance that can be done?
> 
> I'll be selling my HE60/HEV70 soon completely as-is. Never got the opportunity to get them checked out by Moon-Audio or Sennheiser.


 
  
 The SR-Omega design is just very fragile in general.  Nothing can be done preemptively though.


----------



## 3X0

spritzer said:


> The SR-Omega design is just very fragile in general.  Nothing can be done preemptively though.


 
 I see. How does driver failure generally occur? Is it a matter of shock damage, or something like moisture/dust related? Just want to be sure I baby them.


----------



## complin

I'm not suggesting you point such a thing directly at the diaphragm! 
 But would provide a clean source of air, better than blowing on it.
  
 Rubbing it with anything due to the friction is going to set up a static charge which will attract dust so may be self defeating
 There are also those tiny vacuum cleaners for computer keyboards which could be worth investigatng
  
 Quote:


spritzer said:


> That would be a very bad idea.
> 
> 
> The SR-Omega design is just very fragile in general.  Nothing can be done preemptively though.


----------



## n3rdling

You could use compressed air and some kind of diffuser like a thin piece of open cell foam so that it doesn't blow so hard onto the membrane.


----------



## DefQon

3x0 said:


> I see. How does driver failure generally occur? Is it a matter of shock damage, or something like moisture/dust related? Just want to be sure I baby them.


 
  
 The gimble support arc that goes into the housing are very fragile feeling, very evident from looking at the pictures even more evident when you hold the real thing in your hand, replacements are near impossible to find or very expensive if you come across it, no chance of finding NOS O1 drivers backed up by the various Stax distributors around the world - I've enquired them all except the Japanese Stax HQ. I think the drivers are actually held in place by the support struts from the gimble support arcs (or whatever you call them).
  
 Which is one reason I sold mine, I'm not exactly the most careful person around as I like to grab things fairly fast off the shelf and I don't want to end up with a $3.5k broken headphone.


----------



## 3X0

defqon said:


> The gimble support arc that goes into the housing are very fragile feeling, very evident from looking at the pictures even more evident when you hold the real thing in your hand, replacements are near impossible to find or very expensive if you come across it, no chance of finding NOS O1 drivers backed up by the various Stax distributors around the world - I've enquired them all except the Japanese Stax HQ. I think the drivers are actually held in place by the support struts from the gimble support arcs (or whatever you call them).


 
 Thanks for the insight -- makes sense that the drivers could easily break if they are supported by the connection to the headband in some capacity.
  
 Guess I'll have to handle them delicately by the earcups all the time.


----------



## DefQon

Yes handle with much care, just wondering what serial range is your pair from? Mine was 34x, come with original box, manual/ads etc?


----------



## 3X0

defqon said:


> Yes handle with much care, just wondering what serial range is your pair from? Mine was 34x, come with original box, manual/ads etc?



Mid-late 200s, original box, stand and dust cover. How many of these bad boys were made anyway?

Sucks letting go of my HE60 but I wasn't going to do it for much else besides the Omega.


----------



## DefQon

3x0 said:


> Mid-late 200s, original box, stand and dust cover. How many of these bad boys were made anyway?
> 
> Sucks letting go of my HE60 but I wasn't going to do it for much else besides the Omega.




I think it was around 500 units. Nice that you got the HPS-1 stand with it I didn't but I have 2 of those anyway.

HE60 and Omega should have a resembling sound as both are quite forward and bright sounding.


----------



## En_R

DefQon said:
			
		

> HE60 and Omega should have a resembling sound as both are quite forward and bright sounding.



 


No. Not at all.


----------



## DefQon

en_r said:


> DefQon said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Really? Judging from what users post impression on the HE60 they are forward and bright sounding compared to the mk1's, which the Omega's are.


----------



## En_R

defqon said:


> Really? Judging from what users post impression on the HE60 they are forward and bright sounding compared to the mk1's, which the Omega's are.


 
  
 Really.
  
 Did you have your KGSSHV while you still had your Omegas? Not that it matters either way but the other stax amps you list can't even drive them well.

 You wouldn't have heard what the Omegas should sound like either way, unless you plugged them into a T2 or a BHSE.


----------



## DefQon

en_r said:


> Really.
> 
> Did you have your KGSSHV while you still had your Omegas? Not that it matters either way but the other stax amps you list can't even drive them well.
> 
> You wouldn't have heard what the Omegas should sound like either way, unless you plugged them into a T2 or a BHSE.


 
 Best amp I had the Omega's with were the KGSSHV and a diy BH but all I personally had was the T1s back then lol. I was very close to pulling the plug on a BHSE but chose not to due to my financial status then.


----------



## davidsh

Would it be worth it to buy a secondhand sr-007 mk2 to use with my t1? The offer is like 1800$ for the sr-007 and a woo wee, but I have no speaker amp.


----------



## DefQon

davidsh said:


> Would it be worth it to buy a secondhand sr-007 mk2 to use with my t1? The offer is like 1800$ for the sr-007 and a woo wee, but I have no speaker amp.


 
 The SR-007 sounds like turd off the T1, an SRM1 MK2 or SRM 323S would drive the 007 more better not just due to the slightly higher power output. KGSS or 717/727 modded minimum for the 007's.


----------



## davidsh

Ohh well... Thanks.


----------



## DefQon

davidsh said:


> Ohh well... Thanks.


 
  
 Snag yourself an MK1 when they pop up, save up enough to buy a better amp. This doesn't mean the T1 is a turd of an amp, it is very good but mainly voiced for the Lambda line (and the Omega's 1's at one stage), but it's due the to current hungry nature of the 007's that you need something clean sounding with gobs of power to drive it well.


----------



## davidsh

defqon said:


> Snag yourself an MK1 when they pop up, save up enough to buy a better amp. This doesn't mean the T1 is a turd of an amp, it is very good but mainly voiced for the Lambda line (and the Omega's 1's at one stage), but it's due the to current hungry nature of the 007's that you need something clean sounding with gobs of power to drive it well.


 
 Yeah, I kinda knew that but hoped it wouldn't be that bad. I will be patient 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Kinda do have the money, but I guess you need to be responsible..


----------



## DefQon

Btw how bad is the channel imbalance with your LS?


----------



## davidsh

No channel imbalance right now, just occasional squealing and sizzling. I'm just kinda hesitant to open up the diaphragms, but that's the next step.
  
 Else, I am going to open up the T1 and measure some caps and have a look around, just need to loan a proper multi-meter.


----------



## DefQon

davidsh said:


> No channel imbalance right now, just occasional squealing and sizzling. I'm just kinda hesitant to open up the diaphragms, but that's the next step.
> 
> Else, I am going to open up the T1 and measure some caps and have a look around, just need to loan a proper multi-meter.


 
  
 It's not your T1 101% sure otherwise you can have my vinyl setup. If capacitors were the culprit you will be getting a low-level humming noise that will be heard as soon as the amp powers up. 
  
 There is occasional squealing and sizzling is because there is dust particle inside sitting on top of the stator, if it was in between the stator and on the diaphragm you will have channel imbalance. I know this from experience because I've cracked up some Lambda normal bias drivers open, I ended up fixing the problem by removing the dust filter carefully (it had holes), taped up the holes and surely enough there was a piece of hair and some dust balls on the stator, carefully removed those without touching the stator using tweezers that I've heatshrinked the tips, put the filter back on, alias no squealing and my friend was very happy chap again, all for a box of whiskey.


----------



## DarKen23

What am I doing in here, getting ideas../foreheadsmack


----------



## DefQon

darken23 said:


> What am I doing in here, getting ideas../foreheadsmack


 
 Yes yes, welcome to the bright side where the pasture is green and the sound is good.


----------



## davidsh

defqon said:


> It's not your T1 101% sure otherwise you can have my vinyl setup. If capacitors were the culprit you will be getting a low-level humming noise that will be heard as soon as the amp powers up.
> 
> There is occasional squealing and sizzling is because there is dust particle inside sitting on top of the stator, if it was in between the stator and on the diaphragm you will have channel imbalance. I know this from experience because I've cracked up some Lambda normal bias drivers open, I ended up fixing the problem by removing the dust filter carefully (it had holes), taped up the holes and surely enough there was a piece of hair and some dust balls on the stator, carefully removed those without touching the stator using tweezers that I've heatshrinked the tips, put the filter back on, alias no squealing and my friend was very happy chap again, all for a box of whiskey.


 
 Yay, thanks! That is indeed very very good to know. Not that I suspected the amp to be faulty at all, but I'll probably measure it anyway and replace parts that stray off the inteded value.
  
 So, one can conclude the dust has moved from the diaphragm to the top of the stator in my LS. Why didn't you use plastic film instead of taping the holes of the dust protector screens?
  Better not talk too much about alcohol here, might get the thread closed again, but all whiskey I have tasted kinda tasted like cardboard and alcohol. Ewww..


----------



## DefQon

davidsh said:


> Yay, thanks! That is indeed very very good to know. Not that I suspected the amp to be faulty at all, but I'll probably measure it anyway and replace parts that stray off the inteded value.
> 
> So, one can conclude the dust has moved from the diaphragm to the top of the stator in my LS. Why didn't you use plastic film instead of taping the holes of the dust protector screens?
> Better not talk too much about alcohol here, might get the thread closed again, but all whiskey I have tasted kinda tasted like cardboard and alcohol. Ewww..


 
 Yeah it doesn't hurt to replace the caps anyway for a two decade + amp. Better be safe than sorry. 
  
 I was going to use a plastic film from the pvc food wrap bags that I did on my SR-404 imbalance pair that I sold to a buyer who turned out disappointed with my effort when it was sold AS-IS for repairs, but with the hole in the Lambda NB dust filter wasn't too bad and a single bit of tape covered it nicely. Re-filming it would've been a more tedious task as you would need to make sure the film covered and stuck clean and flatly to the dust filter rings. 
  
 Thread will not close because I'm sober and we're talking about Stax. I like some of my whiskey with a bit of coke.


----------



## spritzer

3x0 said:


> I see. How does driver failure generally occur? Is it a matter of shock damage, or something like moisture/dust related? Just want to be sure I baby them.


 
  
 They suffer from channel imbalance issues, the same as all other electrostatics but the biggest risk is shock damage.  That aluminum cup is just a hoax as it really is just plastic with a thin layer of alu to cover it up.  The plastic skeleton is very brittle which is bad as everything is attached to it. 
  


n3rdling said:


> You could use compressed air and some kind of diffuser like a thin piece of open cell foam so that it doesn't blow so hard onto the membrane.


 
  
 The problem with this is that only a tiny amount of force is needed to tear open the diaphragm even if it has just a minuscule flaw.


----------



## 3X0

spritzer said:


> They suffer from channel imbalance issues, the same as all other electrostatics but the biggest risk is shock damage.  That aluminum cup is just a hoax as it really is just plastic with a thin layer of alu to cover it up.  The plastic skeleton is very brittle which is bad as everything is attached to it.



I see. I read something on a thread about having to regularly tighten the black screws on the aluminum disc to prevent the drivers from slipping out from the housing -- is that really the case?

Deterioration sounds pretty worrisome though. Hope I haven't bitten off more than I can chew with this one.


----------



## Don Quichotte

> There is occasional squealing and sizzling is because there is dust particle inside sitting on top of the stator, if it was in between the stator and on the diaphragm you will have channel imbalance.


 
 Are you sure? I'm having this problem myself (and for a long time now), but I was afraid to send the headphones to the service company because of the cost of the new drivers. If it's only the dust filter does this mean that they can just replace this dust filter and do some cleaning and be done with it or they would still need to change the drivers entirely? And why this squealing sound anyway, isn't it because of a short due to whatever debris ended there? (in which case the debris should be between the stator and the diaphragm, right?)


----------



## dukeskd

3x0 said:


> I see. I read something on a thread about having to regularly tighten the black screws on the aluminum disc to prevent the drivers from slipping out from the housing -- is that really the case?
> 
> Deterioration sounds pretty worrisome though. Hope I haven't bitten off more than I can chew with this one.


 
 Don't worry about it this much, just treat it as gently as your HE60 and nothing worrisome should happen. I used to own a Lambda Sig that had drivers that fell out of their housing which was disturbing however this is vintage stuff we are discussing. I believe your pair of the Omega looks well kept, the biggest problem you should be weary about is channel imbalance.


----------



## milosz

Are Lambdas really that fragile? Drivers can just fall out?  Doesn't that indicate a poor design, poor materials choice or poor manufacturing quality...?
  
 I have Lambda Signatures that I bought used and they haven't had any imbalance issues, drivers falling out, squealing, etc etc  -  I also had a pair of the original Lambda Pro's and they, too, were just fine.  I sold them on and the new owner has been happy with them....
  
 So, are they really THAT fragile....?
  
 If they really are, and can just fall apart at any moment, maybe I should consider planning to sell all my Stax 'phones, then, and just use the ESP-950's- Koss have a lifetime, no questions asked warranty.  I mean, if these Stax headphones are likely to just _fall apart_ on me.... maybe I should bail while I can....  ????


----------



## DefQon

don quichotte said:


> Are you sure? I'm having this problem myself (and for a long time now), but I was afraid to send the headphones to the service company because of the cost of the new drivers. If it's only the dust filter does this mean that they can just replace this dust filter and do some cleaning and be done with it or they would still need to change the drivers entirely? And why this squealing sound anyway, isn't it because of a short due to whatever debris ended there? (in which case the debris should be between the stator and the diaphragm, right?)




I can only speak on behalf of myself as the 4 pairs of various Lambdas I've across with imbalance and squealing issues was due to my findings I posted above in response to davidsh. Every of these Lambdas had a hole and small tear in the dust filter. Spritzer did post a while back that squealing can exhibit from slight movements with a hole in the dust filter and a tape over it fixes the problem, I can confirm this is true and plausible for the 3 Lambdas that had squealing problems. The last was the Lambda NB I was talking about which had a small channel imbalance and squealing from movements, taping over the hole didn't completely remedy the problem until I removed the dust filter and surely enough bit of dust and a hair wedged in the sides of the stator, removed them and all was good.

Punctures in the dust filter is most cases from mis-use. Channel imbalance on the other hand from I've gathered here has a lot more variables and unpredictable when it can happen but still a small % of happening. From dust inside to arc'd diaphragms to even the coating inside losing its charge, there is no absolute concrete answer as a solution and to answer the problem.


----------



## Don Quichotte

I see. Well, thanks for the very interesting information! In my case, there is no channel imbalance at all, just squealing (always) in the L phone and sometimes (very rarely) in the R one as well. It has a tendency to subside while using the headphones, so it usually disappears completely after 20-30 minutes of use. I've already changed the drivers twice because of this (!!), maybe the metal mesh is puncturing the dust filter, I don't know?!?
  
 Is it difficult to remove the dust filter and put it back afterwards? Any step by step indications to be found? (best if with pictures - yes, I know I'm asking too much! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) And isn't dangerous for the driver because of the dust? I seem to recall that they are assembled in very strict dust free environments, but maybe I'm making a confusion here...
  
 P.S. I'm talking about a SR-303 here.


----------



## spritzer

The Lambdas can be fragile and the drivers can split open if dropped.  There is just glue holding them together and that can crack open. 
  
 Quote:


3x0 said:


> I see. I read something on a thread about having to regularly tighten the black screws on the aluminum disc to prevent the drivers from slipping out from the housing -- is that really the case?
> 
> Deterioration sounds pretty worrisome though. Hope I haven't bitten off more than I can chew with this one.


 
  
 The plastic casing inside the aluminum skin holds the drivers in place so it has to be tight.  Don't over do it though as this is the same brittle plastic as the rest of the frame and it can easily strip. 
  
 Also there are no more spare earpads for the SR-Omega.  Not even the crappy black ones that never fit properly.


----------



## georgep

I thought there were also issues with the resin "cartwheel" supports - that the resin could be brittles or delaminate leading to driver failure. This support is metal on the 009.


----------



## ericfarrell85

Is there a Stax that is especially noted for their performance with rock? The HE60 that I just received is quickly becoming the most addictive sound I have heard, right alongside my SR007. They're a little too refined and imo a little unsuited to the messiness of most indie rock recordings. I wouldn't mind selling off my AD2000, T1 and LCD 2 if there was a Stax that killed it with rock and pop the way the SR007 does for jazz and the HE60 for anything vocal acoustic (seems to be their forte so far). I realize that this question just begs for dissent and subjective answers, but there are very few of us that wouldn't agree that the RS1/AD2000 are phenomenal with most varieties of rock. Is there something equally beloved in the electrostatic world?


----------



## K_19

I personally love my SR-207 for rock music... I feel that they have that similar bit of a peak in the 2~3k region as the Grados do which IMO makes rock music come alive while keeping the 7-10k treble under control unlike the Grados which can get too bothersome in that region (but some may still enjoy that peak).  Not sure if others would share my sentiments there though.
  
 Not a Stax but felt that ESP950 did rock well when I had it too.


----------



## ericfarrell85

Great, thanks for that. I personally never took to Grados. The RS1 and RS1i I owned were sensational on certain tracks, but for the few most part those tracks were few and far between. The closed in soundstage (even with the likes of a Zana Deux and BA) and the uncontrollable splash in the presence region just made for a subpar experience comparatively. I really feel the AD2000 are Grados done right (technically abysmal, but unapologetically fun). Now if only there was something like the HE60, which manages to be forward and airy all at once. Unlike the AD2000 they're smooth as butter.


----------



## n3rdling

I actually love the SR-007 for rock.  Makes poor recordings less fatiguing and has a nice midbass.  You might like the SR-5 if you want something more aggressive sounding and it's pretty cheap.  I think the RS1 is terrible and the AD2k is too grainy for my tastes though, so take that into account.


----------



## barid

Alright, so I come to you all with some questions. 
  
 Situation:  I've been looking at trying a Stax setup
  
 Problem:  Was looking at getting an 007 mk2 but everything I read indicates the mk1 is superior (more neutral etc, cleaner bass, no mid coloration).  I'm not crazy about dropping that kind of money on a 6+ year old used MK1, but it is what it is I suppose.  Next problem being, everything I've read seams to indicate the current Stax amps that can drive that 007 aren't that great.  The 727 being the best of the bunch, but would require some modification to add back in the feedback.
  
 Question 1: mk1 vs mk2.  I could pick on a mk2 new for about the same price as a used mk1.  Are there build concerns with the mk1; was it fragile, can't source replacement parts if it breaks?  If the signature is close I'm leaning toward just the new mk2.
  
 Question 2: Of the current Stax amp lineup is the 727 preferred?  Is the modification required something a relatively inexperienced user could do?  if not who's doing them and for how much?
  
 Also, just flame or ignore me if this is the kind of question that gets posted too much.  Was trying to sort this all out before I drop some coin.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## DefQon

BHSE or go home.


----------



## dukeskd

n3rdling said:


> I actually love the SR-007 for rock.  Makes poor recordings less fatiguing and has a nice midbass.  You might like the SR-5 if you want something more aggressive sounding and it's pretty cheap.  I think the RS1 is terrible and the AD2k is too grainy for my tastes though, so take that into account.


 
 +1. I think SR007 is excellent for rock and metal.


----------



## Michgelsen

barid said:


> Question 1: mk1 vs mk2.  I could pick on a mk2 new for about the same price as a used mk1.  Are there build concerns with the mk1; was it fragile, can't source replacement parts if it breaks?  If the signature is close I'm leaning toward just the new mk2.


 
  
 No real build concerns. Replacement parts will be mk2 parts. The only weak point of the mk1 is said to be the strain relief where the cable enters the headphones, but under normal circumstances this shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## negura

barid said:


> Question 1: mk1 vs mk2.  I could pick on a mk2 new for about the same price as a used mk1.  Are there build concerns with the mk1; was it fragile, can't source replacement parts if it breaks?  If the signature is close I'm leaning toward just the new mk2.
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 I personally would never choose the MK2s if given a choice and I do not think they are close to the MK1s. The MK2s remind me of Audeze and not in a good way. They sound darker and less transparent.  I would rate the MK2s as competing with the LCD-2s and I rate the MK1s above the LCD-3s.


----------



## TheAttorney

michgelsen said:


> No real build concerns. Replacement parts will be mk2 parts. *The only weak point of the mk1 is said to be the strain relief where the cable enters the headphones, but under normal circumstances this shouldn't be a problem.*


 
  
 This particular weak point has been the only issue (twice) in my 7+ years of 007 mk1 ownership. 
 Here's a really good way of reproducing this failure: With headphones on, crouch down to change a CD etc, then stand up straight, forgetting that your foot is on the cable. If you don't do that sort of thing, then you'll be fine.
  
 To recover from this failure, you'll need a Stax support professional to solder in a new cable, at a cost of around £100, most of which is for the new cable. You could try fixing it yourself, but unless your name is spritzer, it's not a trivial task, and the high voltages do not allow much room for error.


----------



## antonyfirst

As of late, I have heard two wonderful pairs of SR-007. One was a 72xxx (which has been my best pair). Two days ago, a friend of mine has purchased a very old, almost new pair, s/n 70110, with the first version box, in black carbon fiber. Honestly, I couldn't say if one sounded better than the other. To me they were both equally great.
  
 I have owned / heard other SR-007 Mk1 in the past (71xxx, sz1xxx, and so on), and I must say 3 out of 6 sounded great, up to this day, while others were noticeably darker, everything else factored in.
  
 Is it possible that the 70xxx and the best 72xxx I have had were actually made equally high well?
 Were there different production facilities, back then?


----------



## Scottsmrnyc

STILL ENJOYING MY STAX HEAPHONE AND AMP COLLECTION.  IT'S BEEN A WHILE.  Just checking in to say hi.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

what stands are you guys using for your Sr-009s? I decided to not get my from Price Japan and will be getting them from Justin instead. So they will be here much sooner, figure I need to get a stand lined up. I don't like the stands that have the pads against the body of the stand, I want one more where it just suspends the headphones by the headband. I was looking at this one http://www.amazon.com/Just-Mobile-Direct-HS-100BK-HeadStand/dp/B00BR3OPKU/ref=pd_cp_pc_1


----------



## ALSO

A question for the experts: I recently purchased a 007 mk. 1 from Yahoo.jp, a seller that calls itself a "store."  I've purchased there before without issues.  The headphone arrived in good shape but with no serial number, which sent off alarms.  I've been comparing this to another pair I own, and the sound appears very close.  I've written to the seller for clarification, but wondered if anyone has  experience with this sort of thing, and any thoughts.  Thank you in advance for your advice.


----------



## loligagger

souprknowva said:


> what stands are you guys using for your Sr-009s? I decided to not get my from Price Japan and will be getting them from Justin instead. So they will be here much sooner, figure I need to get a stand lined up. I don't like the stands that have the pads against the body of the stand, I want one more where it just suspends the headphones by the headband. I was looking at this one http://www.amazon.com/Just-Mobile-Direct-HS-100BK-HeadStand/dp/B00BR3OPKU/ref=pd_cp_pc_1


 
  
 I had a custom one made out of stainless steel at a local weldshop. Had the curve done to match the arc, and put some padding/leather over top. Total cost was about $40. It doesn't have 009s on it yet though, just waiting until PJ comes through.


----------



## K_19

also said:


> A question for the experts: I recently purchased a 007 mk. 1 from Yahoo.jp, a seller that calls itself a "store."  I've purchased there before without issues.  The headphone arrived in good shape but with no serial number, which sent off alarms.  I've been comparing this to another pair I own, and the sound appears very close.  I've written to the seller for clarification, but wondered if anyone has  experience with this sort of thing, and any thoughts.  Thank you in advance for your advice.


 
  
 It could possibly be that the serial number sticker naturally just came off.  On my former pair it was actually already starting to come off a bit on the corners.


----------



## ALSO

Thanks K19, wanting to think it's nothing more than that.  But if so, is there ever any way to verify authenticity?


----------



## n3rdling

No such thing as fake 007s...


----------



## DefQon

Stax earspeakers without serials is rather normal amongst Lambda models possibly the same for the O2's. Prototype units?


----------



## shipsupt

I use both of these for 007's, 009's, Omegas, etc... The one on the left is available from Thomann and the one on the right from Woo.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

shipsupt said:


> I use both of these for 007's, 009's, Omegas, etc... The one on the left is available from Thomann and the one on the right from Woo.



 


oh I like that one, thanks!


----------



## shipsupt

You'll see they have different woods to select from.... not cheap, but nice build.  
  
 I wish they were a little higher so that when you are hanging the headphones form the plastic frame (in the case of the 009) instead of the leather band it would sit higher giving more room for the cables leaving the bottoms of the headphones.  If they are hanging on the leather headband, no issues...


----------



## ALSO

defqon said:


> Stax earspeakers without serials is rather normal amongst Lambda models possibly the same for the O2's. Prototype units?


 
 Thanks DefQon, it's probably nothing, and the two pairs sound very much alike side by side, but was disappointing to be minus the serial tag.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

shipsupt said:


> You'll see they have different woods to select from.... not cheap, but nice build.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 




ah, that was gonna be my next question was whether it was tall enough to hang from the outside frame instead of the leather suspension part...


----------



## shipsupt

souprknowva said:


> shipsupt said:
> 
> 
> > You'll see they have different woods to select from.... not cheap, but nice build.
> ...


 
  
 Just barely, 
  
 Really bad picture, but you get the point, they just barely touch when hanging from the outside frame.  The Woo is actually the best for adjusting so they hang from the outside frame and don't come close to touching.  Two 007's hang on that Woo perfectly.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Thanks for the picture! I think I will probably just go with that Woo stand then, I just want to give them a bit more space.


----------



## rawrster

I use that same Woo Audio stand and it's all I would want in a stand. It's nothing fancy but works for my SR007 and HD800


----------



## DefQon

I really feel sorry for the way that O1 is hanging.


----------



## shipsupt

It got moved around for the pic, it's not normally hung there, but thanks for feeling sorry.


----------



## DefQon

That's ok, I would hate seeing someone breaking the fragile hinges that go from the headband assembly to the cups on the O1's.


----------



## shipsupt

For sure. They are my babies and get the best treatment of the bunch. I just put hem up for the quick shot because I was listening to them at the time and wanted to show the OP what a few headphones looked like on that stand for reference.


----------



## 3X0

shipsupt said:


> For sure. They are my babies and get the best treatment of the bunch. I just put hem up for the quick shot because I was listening to them at the time and wanted to show the OP what a few headphones looked like on that stand for reference.



As a new owner of a pair, could you share any advice on how you handle them differently from your others?


----------



## jjinh

also said:


> A question for the experts: I recently purchased a 007 mk. 1 from Yahoo.jp, a seller that calls itself a "store."  I've purchased there before without issues.  The headphone arrived in good shape but with no serial number, which sent off alarms.  I've been comparing this to another pair I own, and the sound appears very close.  I've written to the seller for clarification, but wondered if anyone has  experience with this sort of thing, and any thoughts.  Thank you in advance for your advice.


 
  
 I suppose you dont have any labels on your cardboard box (I dont mean the 'carbon fiber' case)?
  
 Methinks they may have replaced the headband arc on your pair.


----------



## ALSO

jjinh said:


> I suppose you dont have any labels on your cardboard box (I dont mean the 'carbon fiber' case)?
> 
> Methinks they may have replaced the headband arc on your pair.


 
 Thank you Jinh, the purchase came with the carbon fiber case but not the outer box.  I contacted the store and they assured me the item is legitimate, but that the serial number sticker must have peeled off.  I've been A/B comparing my two sets of 007 and actually the stickerless one sounds a bit brighter and lively, but the two are very close.  I'm OK with this set, since I'm not planning to shed either anytime soon, but would have preferred to know the serial number.  The 007s sound incredible, so I'm fine with the two as they are.  Thanks for responding.


----------



## DefQon

Wait are you buying another MK1?


----------



## ALSO

Yeah, I'm addicted to this sound.  Have been going back and forth between the two 007s all night.


----------



## DefQon




----------



## complin

I think this is probably one of the best non Stax stands http://www.thomann.de/gb/rooms_audio_typ_fs_s_headphone_stand.htm
  
 Quote:


souprknowva said:


> what stands are you guys using for your Sr-009s? I decided to not get my from Price Japan and will be getting them from Justin instead. So they will be here much sooner, figure I need to get a stand lined up. I don't like the stands that have the pads against the body of the stand, I want one more where it just suspends the headphones by the headband. I was looking at this one http://www.amazon.com/Just-Mobile-Direct-HS-100BK-HeadStand/dp/B00BR3OPKU/ref=pd_cp_pc_1


----------



## spritzer

also said:


> Thank you Jinh, the purchase came with the carbon fiber case but not the outer box.  I contacted the store and they assured me the item is legitimate, but that the serial number sticker must have peeled off.  I've been A/B comparing my two sets of 007 and actually the stickerless one sounds a bit brighter and lively, but the two are very close.  I'm OK with this set, since I'm not planning to shed either anytime soon, but would have preferred to know the serial number.  The 007s sound incredible, so I'm fine with the two as they are.  Thanks for responding.


 
  
 The simplest solution is that somebody replace the arcs and didn't bother to move the serial number sticker as well. 
  
 Nothing wrong with having two Mk1's... or four...


----------



## ALSO

spritzer said:


> The simplest solution is that somebody replace the arcs and didn't bother to move the serial number sticker as well.
> 
> Nothing wrong with having two Mk1's... or four...


 
 Thank you Spritzer, and also for enabling my addiction to these.  For the moment, I've simply decided to give in.


----------



## shipsupt

3x0 said:


> As a new owner of a pair, could you share any advice on how you handle them differently from your others?


 
  
 Nothing really special, only that they are always handled with extreme care when I use them and I keep them in an open box instead of hanging.  
  
 Open box because all of my stats, including the O1 in the open box, are now kept in a case that has slight positive pressure to keep dust out and the humidity controlled... but that's just a little overkill that I set up because I'm living in a fairly humid environment over here in the UK.


----------



## davidsh

shipsupt said:


> Nothing really special, only that they are always handled with extreme care when I use them and I keep them in an open box instead of hanging.
> 
> Open box because all of my stats, including the O1 in the open box, are now kept in a case that has slight positive pressure to keep dust out and the humidity controlled... but that's just a little overkill that I set up because I'm living in a fairly humid environment over here in the UK.


 
 No pricture, no proof.


----------



## schorsch

Hello,

I want to build a Sigma Stand From Wood and need an old or wrotten one to build the inner line. Has someone detailed photos and or measurements for the Sigma stand?

Regards Georg


----------



## NoPants

spritzer said:


> The simplest solution is that somebody replace the arcs and didn't bother to move the serial number sticker as well.
> 
> Nothing wrong with having two Mk1's... or four...


 
  
 I thought it was wrong to own two, what have I done


----------



## 3X0

Got my Omega recently, and even listening to my SRM-323S out of a Note 2 (please don't hate ) it's a worthwhile step up from my HE60.

Anyone have issues with Stax gear and airport security? I'm moving across the country soon and have to take them with me. My plan is to stuff the SRM-323S in my backpack and keep the SR-Omega in its box as a personal item and guard it with my life. Fortunately the 323S is solid-state and I'm only on a domestic flight...

The bonus is that I'll be able to set it up and listen to it at the airport during my layover. :tongue_smile:



shipsupt said:


> Nothing really special, only that they are always handled with extreme care when I use them and I keep them in an open box instead of hanging.
> 
> Open box because all of my stats, including the O1 in the open box, are now kept in a case that has slight positive pressure to keep dust out and the humidity controlled... but that's just a little overkill that I set up because I'm living in a fairly humid environment over here in the UK.



Thanks. (How frequently) Do you tighten the screws?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Pic. 1 : celebrities with Stax 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## shipsupt

3x0 said:


> Got my Omega recently, and even listening to my SRM-323S out of a Note 2 (please don't hate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You shouldn't have any issues carrying STAX with you through the airport.  It's obvious they are headphones.  The amp doesn't contain anything that will spook security.  Just be prepared to pull it out and show it off, other than that no problems.
  
  
 I haven't tightened the screws, in fact your post was the first I heard about that.... so I plan to give them a little snug up soon.


----------



## spritzer

Just don't over tighten.  It is quite the pain to fix that...


----------



## DefQon

As long as it doesn't have tubes you'll be alright ;D. A friend of mine got held at customs once from an international flight where he spent an hour explaining to the security what the tubes were/are for attached to an amp he purchased stored in his luggage.


----------



## bearFNF

shipsupt said:


> You shouldn't have any issues carrying STAX with you through the airport.  It's obvious they are headphones.  The amp doesn't contain anything that will spook security.  Just be prepared to pull it out and show it off, other than that no problems.
> 
> 
> I haven't tightened the screws, in fact your post was the first I heard about that.... so I plan to give them a little snug up soon.


 
 Agreed, should be no problem here, I took a bunch of gear to CanJam (HD800's, PS500's, DIY amp, etc.).  They took a real long look at all the cables and stuff in the X-ray, but that was about it.  They had a bigger problem with my toothpaste tube being too big (so they threw it out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and my shampoo bottle that they thought MIGHT be too big (they eventually let me keep it). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Sheesh, all the while they missed the two leatherman I forget were in a pocket of my backpack...


----------



## shipsupt

defqon said:


> As long as it doesn't have tubes you'll be alright ;D. A friend of mine got held at customs once from an international flight where he spent an hour explaining to the security what the tubes were/are for attached to an amp he purchased stored in his luggage.


 
  
 Good point.  There is always the chance to get a closer look at stuff that isn't "main stream", but I've flown with the Continental with no problems, so you never know.  Be early to the line, be patient, be polite and all goes fine.  You're carrying something that's totally legit to carry.
  
 I rack up a fair bit of miles each year and I put together some "interesting" bricks that I take along... I've only had my rig checked once!  
  
  
  
 Now, bear, about that toothpaste!! Shame on you!


----------



## rgs9200m

If you go to this link
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Other-Documments/FM-Guide-New-York/FM-Guide-1975-11.pdf
  
 and page down to Page 5 you'll see a neat ad for an sra12s, an srxIII, and a DA300.
(It's a big pdf file so it's better on a regular computer, not a tablet or phone.)
 (And later on on page 16 --page 14 in the actual magazine -- is something about the Koss "Quadraphones").


----------



## aj-kun

Just received my new SZ2-19XX SR-007A today from Price Japan.
 Sound amazing. **** all over my SR202. Can't believe they will scale more too.
  
 I thought Stax were onto SZ3 now, or is that only with the American version?


----------



## livewire

Are you sure they didnt sell you some used or refurb stuff?
 That serial number is older than dirt.


----------



## DefQon

aj-kun said:


> Sound amazing. **** all over my SR202.


 
 Did you really think your 202's will sound remotely close to the 007?


----------



## aj-kun

livewire said:


> Are you sure they didnt sell you some used or refurb stuff?
> That serial number is older than dirt.




It was a 3 week wait for them to ship the order, and 3 days to ship. The package arrived double boxed, stax box fully sealed with certificates fully sealed everything is in it's plastic wrap. Could be a refurb I don't know, but just hoping i got lucky with some New old stock lol. I'll post some pics when I get home. 



defqon said:


> Did you really think your 202's will sound remotely close to the 007? :rolleyes:




Sounds amazing to my mid-fi ears. Wasn't sure what to expect. Gratz on the 6000th post


----------



## 3X0

To be fair, Stax never fails to impress. I had high expectations for the SR-307 as a mid-fi headphone and the SR-Omega as a stratospheric headphone and was still blown away by all counts (moreso by the latter).


----------



## dukeskd

3x0 said:


> To be fair, Stax never fails to impress. I had high expectations for the SR-307 as a mid-fi headphone and the SR-Omega as a stratospheric headphone and was still blown away by all counts (moreso by the latter).


 
 We need more impressions 3x0


----------



## aj-kun

New Old Stock or Refurb?
  
 PICS

 Nyankey cameo

 Nothing to see here

 Serial with my birthyear =D

 Sticky Tape Fix on box = little suspect

 Serial on box.


----------



## Pier Paolo

Hi, I am back. I am enjoying my 507/600 combo a lot but  I have a little question, a curiosity: when I set the bias I can reach 0- 300 mV both DC and offset on both channels.(amp well warmed up an no input). I also check again after a while. The values fluctuate between -250mV and +450mV. Ok, I close the metal panel ad switch off the unit.
 Anyway, if  I check again after some days I have different values: 0,9-1 V. Do you think that these fluctuations are normal or should I check for some problem? As posted before in the thread I have already changed the 8X30k  plate resistors with 16X15k (2%,5W) kiwame.
  
 And: would dc balance and offset bias setting be easier with the headphone plugged-in?
 Thanks. PP


----------



## spritzer

There is no regulation what so ever in the PSU plus the normal drift in the circuit so some fluctuation is to be expected.


----------



## forbigger

@aj-kun - looks mint to me. most likely nos


----------



## ericfarrell85

Can anyone compare the Electra with the KGSS? Lately I've felt the SR007 was a little closed in, a little dark and in need of some upper frequency shimmer. This may be coming from the HE6 I've been listening to over the past week, as I don't remember thinking this before. It would be nice to know if the Electra opens them up a bit.


----------



## Seele01

hi there,
  
 i'm asking help as i'm having a problem with a stax set my friend got this summer.
  
 we are still mid fi with a great learning curve ahead, but quite curious about high end sound as we experienced the 407/007 in a french audio shop. The quality of the sound was so great from what we knew ( i own a SR325i and he's got a beyer dt880 ) that we stepped up to get a SRM 323/307 set from ebay.
  
 when we received the pack ( no blemish whatsoever ) plugged the amp, put the headphone on, but we only get sound from the right speaker?? we checked everything cablewise but everything is connected, we are using a computer as a source ( for the test) jack>rca directly to the amp. It seems the volume knob is turning but nothing happens, the knob for the left channel is working, but we got no sound from the right one. 
  
 as we are clearly begginners from this side, we don't know anyone having another stax headphone/set to authenticate the source of the problem (either the amp or the headphone)
  
 do you guys might have an idea of what is going on with this? 
  
 regards


----------



## 3X0

dukeskd said:


> We need more impressions 3x0


In due time. :bigsmile_face: My desktop gear is en route across the country and soon I will be as well.

If the Omega was this impressive out of my smartphone I can only imagine what they'll be capable of. :eek:


----------



## complin

Presume you have reversed the RCA connections from the source and does the fault move to the other channel or stay the same?
  
 Quote:


seele01 said:


> hi there,
> 
> i'm asking help as i'm having a problem with a stax set my friend got this summer.
> 
> ...


----------



## spritzer

Also open up the amp and see if the LED's on the circuit board are lit.


----------



## darinf

It's not often I search for something and come up with nothing even though I am sure this has been discussed before...
  
 I have a Stax 323A amp. I assume since it has two headphone outputs that are the same, can I use both outputs at the same time? If not, then why have two outputs?
  
 What are the disadvantages of using to headphones at one time?
  
 I have a pair of 407's and 009's and want to compare them. But I also don't like the idea of plugging and unplugging those Stax connectors a lot.
  
 Your thoughts?


----------



## kevin gilmore

Works best when both headphones are identical. Otherwise one is going to
Be a fair amount louder. The extra load on the amp is very minimal.

This is nothing like the loads on a dynamic amplifier.


----------



## preproman

ericfarrell85 said:


> Can anyone compare the Electra with the KGSS? Lately I've felt the SR007 was a little closed in, a little dark and in need of some upper frequency shimmer. This may be coming from the HE6 I've been listening to over the past week, as I don't remember thinking this before. It would be nice to know if the Electra opens them up a bit.


 
  
 I'm hoping the BHSE will open them up as well.  It's said to be a great match..


----------



## spritzer

darinf said:


> It's not often I search for something and come up with nothing even though I am sure this has been discussed before...
> 
> I have a Stax 323A amp. I assume since it has two headphone outputs that are the same, can I use both outputs at the same time? If not, then why have two outputs?
> 
> ...


 
  
 They are sharing the amp in a way but as Kevin said, it's fine to plug a few headphones into any one amplifier.  Stax even made a 3-to-1 adapter back in the day.


----------



## Pier Paolo

Hi there,
 I have read opposite things about the charge/discharge of the Mylar membrane. Hours to charge, seconds to charge, problems with strange static opposite charge......
 So, now, my question are:
 Is it better to leave the phones plugged all the time or the charging time is so short that this is not an issue?
 Is it better to discharge the phones when unplugged? and how I can do that? (I unplug the phones every night because of my cats.....)
  
 Please experts, some light!
  
 Ciao
 Pier Paolo


----------



## davidsh

Short the pins with your fingers and the diaphragm should discharge.


----------



## Pier Paolo

long story short!
 TKS


----------



## milosz

I've also heard that electrostatic 'phones take 'hours' to charge up _properly_.  Mine seems to charge up just about immediately, but maybe after an hour they sound better?  I can't tell, they sound good right away and sound good later on, too. My time machine is in the shop for repair, otherwise I could do an A/B comparison of the sound of short charge time vs long charge time....
  
 I know my Quad ESL's take a while to charge.  For at least the first hour or two they are quiet sounding and I am reluctant to play them.  Slow charge migration due to a high resistance coating is supposed to be one of the keys to good sound from an ESL, not sure if the same is true of electrostatic 'phones but I would guess they too need to control charge movement on the diaphragm otherwise the charge would all move to the point of the diaphragm closest to the stator, typically the center of the diaphragm when the diaphragm is vibrating....  freely motile charge would lead to non-linear transduction.


----------



## spritzer

That long charge up myth comes from the QUAD ESL57 with its nylon coating and rather insane surface resistance.  Couple that with a very weak bias supply and they will take a long time to charge up. 
  
 For Stax headphones the charge will take a few milliseconds to reach full level if they are working properly.


----------



## Pier Paolo

Very interesting, milosz.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Yatta! Today my Sr-009s came in!!!!!
  
 Thanks Justin for getting these to me so fast


----------



## MacedonianHero

souprknowva said:


> Yatta! Today my Sr-009s came in!!!!!
> 
> Thanks Justin for getting these to me so fast


 




  
 Congrats Chase! Long wait, but well worth it IMO. You should be rocking now with your KGSSHV!


----------



## jeffreyfranz

souprknowva said:


> Yatta! Today my Sr-009s came in!!!!!
> 
> Thanks Justin for getting these to me so fast


 
 At the LA Headphone Meet last July, this was the only HP I heard that literally seemed magical, took my breath away (on Justin's BHSE). I liked other things very much (e.g., SR-007 Mk. 1; HD-800), but the 009 was mind-boggling. Good for you; happy for you.


----------



## nemomec

Hello,
  
 i have here now a SRM T1S (lastest series) and i will do the ECC99 mod to get a better performance.
  

  
 First step i have changed the old cups on my T1S. What things I need for the using of ECC99 tubes? I have read from recabling the tube connectors and new resistors. Where I can find more information?
  
 Which type of ECC99 tubes are good? I have found this ones:
  
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/2-Stk-ECC99-JJ-Tube-Rohrenverstarker-Rohre-HighEnd-12BH7-matched-Paar-NEU-/200983941981?pt=R%C3%B6hren&hash=item2ecb93935d
  
 Thanks!


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

nemomec said:


> Hello,
> 
> i have here now a SRM T1S (last series) and i will do the ECC99 mod to get a better performance. First step i have changed the old cups on my T1S. What things I need for the using of ECC99 tubes? I have read from recabling the tube connectors and new resistors. Where I can find more information?
> 
> ...


 

 There's only one manufacturer of the ECC99 as far as I know, so you can either choose the JJ standard label or gold ones. The gold plated pins are the only real difference it seems.


----------



## spritzer

12BH7 and 6n6pi are close relatives to the ECC99 but as of yet untested.


----------



## nemomec

Ok Thanks!
  
 I have now ordered a pair of ECC99 JJ tubes and 30K 2W resistors. 
  
 Now I need only a guide how to recabling the tube connectors? 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

A question for Stax historians: Why did Stax discontinue the Gamma / Alpha line after a few years? Where they not succesful enough, or too similar to the Lambdas?


----------



## 3X0

According to the Wiki, sales did not meet expectations as the price difference between those lines and the Lambdas was too small to justify settling for the lesser models.
  
 I'm no Stax historian though.


----------



## arnaud

That matches what we were told during the interview at stax last a year ago.


----------



## milosz

spritzer said:


> That long charge up myth comes from the QUAD ESL57 with its nylon coating and rather insane surface resistance.  Couple that with a very weak bias supply and they will take a long time to charge up.
> 
> For Stax headphones the charge will take a few milliseconds to reach full level if they are working properly.


 
  
 Quads are rather quaint.  Great sound, idiosyncratic appearance, eccentric British midcentury tech.  I always thought they looked like room heaters for a Swedish moon base.  I don't think I would ever part with mine.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

That's sad, I like how the Gammas look! Sound quality is a different story, but visually they're more appealing to me than the Lambdas.


----------



## spritzer

Here is something unusual, the rarest of all Stax headphones.  It's so rare that it isn't even listed on the history page... 
  

  
 Stock earpads long perished so those are A-T 3000ANV units.  Now the truly odd bit...
  

  
 Those are not Stax baffles and not what the phones shipped with.  They are from a PWB headphone which was made in the UK in the late 60's.  No idea why they are even there but the earpads were the standard PWB units as well. 
  

  
 This is what they look like with the baffles opened up.  The drivers are identical to the late SR-1 models and have that same adhesive ring for the baffle seal. 
  
 In the last 10 years of searching I've only seen two of these for sale all over the world and this is one of them.  That makes even the SR-X Mk1 seem common.  
  
 Quote:


amanand88keys said:


> A question for Stax historians: Why did Stax discontinue the Gamma / Alpha line after a few years? Where they not succesful enough, or too similar to the Lambdas?


 
  
 Low sales and build quality issues were the main culprit.  They were never that much cheaper than the Lambda to make and were just a way to keep using the driver tech they had used since 1960.  Though is should be mentioned that they were made for 7 or so years so not a complete loss. 
  


milosz said:


> Quads are rather quaint.  Great sound, idiosyncratic appearance, eccentric British midcentury tech.  I always thought they looked like room heaters for a Swedish moon base.  I don't think I would ever part with mine.


 
  
 There is indeed nothing quite like them.  The tech is old but PJW had such a fundamental grasp of the electrostatic technology that he made up for the lackluster build quality and the materials they had at hand.  It would be interesting to see if anybody could make a modern version of them, same principles but larger in every way.


----------



## 3X0

I'm not sure about the design philosophy behind the Alpha/Gamma lines (I haven't really observed specimens of either). The Lambda and Omega enclosures had express design goals in mind be it "surround" sound or improved bass response (among other things).
  
  
 Are squeaky/creaky Lambda headbands prone to failure? I know that many specimens over a dozen years old have headband assemblies that creak like bad door hinges, but I'm wondering if that affects integrity of the structure at all.


----------



## complin

No
 Try some silicone or beeswax polish if it annoys you 
 Quote:


3x0 said:


> Are squeaky/creaky Lambda headbands prone to failure? I know that many specimens over a dozen years old have headband assemblies that creak like bad door hinges, but I'm wondering if that affects integrity of the structure at all.


----------



## complin

Even so surprisingly still a great listen if you like the smaller style compared to the Lambdas, circumaural too
  
 Quote:


3x0 said:


> According to the Wiki, sales did not meet expectations as the price difference between those lines and the Lambdas was too small to justify settling for the lesser models.
> 
> I'm no Stax historian though.


 
  
  


arnaud said:


> That matches what we were told during the interview at stax last a year ago.


----------



## s1rrah

Need some input from Stax aficionados ...
  
 At one time, a very long time ago, I had a STAX SRS-3050II "Classic" system ... comprised of the Stax SRM-323II amp with the SR-303 "Lambda" earspeakers; it was a phenomenal bit of gear and I found it to be near perfect, equaling the speed and detail (perhaps more detail even) of my Stello HP100 amp and Grado GS1000 headphones.
  
 I ended up selling it in a time when I needed money; I got $700.00 for it here in Houston, as a local sell. That was back in 2009. Since then, I've been using a Ray Samuels Raptor amp (with the same source, a MHDT Labs Havana/Stockholm) and the same Grado GS1000's.
  
 I still rather enjoy my Raptor/GS1000's setup but have been getting the itch to revisit Stax, on one hand simply because I'm getting the itch and on the other hand because just speaking technically, the GS1000's can be nit picky with certain, treble emphasized music (mostly rock stuff that's mixed sort of hot in the treble already).  But otherwise, especially with jazz, classical and certain electronic  ... I love the GS1000's speed, bass, soundstage and detail.
  
 But I remember the Stax being very similar, only butter smooth in the highs through just about everything I could throw at it and so I'm considering selling the Raptor amp and GS1000 headphones and looking for a deal on a Stax system.
  
 My question:
  
 What Stax combination would you recommend for about $1500 dollars US? Either used or new is fine. I'd want the kit that featured the fullest bass and most detail while being as extended, yet forgiving in the highs as possible. I've never heard one of the tube based amps and so can't speak towards those but I'm certainly open to such. 
  
 Thanks for any comments ...
 .joel


----------



## cswann1

Joel, is there any chance of you making it to the Austin meet in January?
  
 If you can make it you can check out my Stax rig. It's 100% mid-fi but for the qualities I want in a headphone rig, I think I'd need to spend way more in dynamics to get what I have with the Stax.  
  
 I'm using: Dennon DVD-2900 -> Little Dot MKIVse (preamp) -> Sonic Impact Super T-amp -> Woo Wee -> Stax SR404
  
 The phones, pre-amp, power amp and Wee came to about $1500.


----------



## s1rrah

cswann1 said:


> Joel, is there any chance of you making it to the Austin meet in January?
> 
> If you can make it you can check out my Stax rig. It's 100% mid-fi but for the qualities I want in a headphone rig, I think I'd need to spend way more in dynamics to get what I have with the Stax.
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah. a reall good chance I might make it. 
  
 More later!!


----------



## livewire

s1rrah said:


> Need some input from Stax aficionados ...
> 
> At one time, a very long time ago, I had a STAX SRS-3050II "Classic" system ... comprised of the Stax SRM-323II amp with the SR-303 "Lambda" earspeakers; it was a phenomenal bit of gear and I found it to be near perfect, equaling the speed and detail (perhaps more detail even) of my Stello HP100 amp and Grado GS1000 headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The modern version of your older Stax system is the SRS-3170. It sells for under $1500.
  
 If you want tubes, then the Stax SRS-4170 system should do the trick.
  
 My preference is the SR-407 earspeaker with a solid-state amp such as the SRM-323S or a DIY KGSSHV.
  
 Just my dos centavos...


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

s1rrah said:


> Need some input from Stax aficionados ...
> 
> At one time, a very long time ago, I had a STAX SRS-3050II "Classic" system ... comprised of the Stax SRM-323II amp with the SR-303 "Lambda" earspeakers; it was a phenomenal bit of gear and I found it to be near perfect, equaling the speed and detail (perhaps more detail even) of my Stello HP100 amp and Grado GS1000 headphones.
> 
> ...


 

 My suggestions: get vintage Lambdas and a SRM-T1 (or T1 S). That should make you happy!


----------



## 3X0

Shouldn't the SRM-323S + SR-407 + leather pads (from the SR-507) clock in at below $1500 altogether?


----------



## livewire

Yup.


----------



## mikek200

amanand88keys said:


> My suggestions: get vintage Lambdas and a SRM-T1 (or T1 S). That should make you happy!


 
 +1..on this setup
 I just sold the Lambda-pro & the T1s..an excellent pairing .
  
 I only reason I sold it was, ,because an opportunity came up to get the 007MKII,and a 727 amp.


----------



## Bookbear

I have a question...  I own new-ish Stax 407's.  I would like to replace the pads with ones for the 507's.  On my old Lambda's, it was a simple matter of peeling off the old perished cushions, cleaning the slight adhesive residue off the plastic housing, and pressing on the replacement cushions.  Is the process the same for the 407's and the 507 cushions?  I find several mentions of the 507 cushions also fitting the 404's, but I don't find anything about them fitting the 407's.  Will they work, size-wise and as to the method of attaching them?
  
 Thanks for any tips!
  
 Happy listening
 Mark


----------



## spritzer

Same method to attach any Lambda pad since 1979.  The new ones are no different.


----------



## negura

A short trip to the local depot today ... yes I couldn't wait one more day and collected the below to join my 007MKIs. My KGSSHV is still being built, but I am very satisfied with the Taboo MK3 and Wee converter at this stage.
  
 A few notes from initial impressions today:
 - just as heard at a recent meet, I am very impressed with the bass capabilities of the 009s. There is nothing missing in quantity and the quality is amazing: attack, impact & bottomless response.
 - brightness. I must say I am very sensitive to bright treble, which was one of the reasons I sold my HD800s eventually. I don't even want to mention the shipwreck that was my sample of T1s (I also blame QC/sample variance on those). It may be the fact I am using a tube amplifier or not, but in my current setup the SR009s are not bright sounding in a HD800s way, yet yes they are very revealing. There is no harsness to the treble and I hear them as very neutral. Even with bright recordings and I know well which ones those are in my collection, the SR009s are doing a very reasonble job. I am well relieved they are VERY enjoyable.
 - the transparency is nothing short of outstanding. While they don't put the SR007 MKIs to shame and I am still very much enjoying the latter, I am positively impressed by the transparency and musical connection enabled by the SR009s.
  
 I am a bit concerned how things will pan out with a SS amplifier in terms of brightness, but hoping for the best.
  
 P.S.: How come there's no appreciation thread for the SR-009s? Or at least I couldn't find one. Surely, enough people enjoy these and yes as with everything I expect some don't.


----------



## Argybargy

Very jealous 
Is your 007mk1 the first version in the carbon fiber flight case?
How long was the wait for your 009?


----------



## negura

Almost 4 months wait. It was a painful wait, but 100% worth it. PJ got my shipment method wrong which pissed me right off as I did make sure to *again* confirm that with them the day before. But they were delivered well and unharmed in the end.
  
 My 007s are a SZ1, but by how they sound a good sample I think. They did come with a carbon fiber box.


----------



## davidsh

Woah, not jelly at all..


----------



## Argybargy

Like me, it looks like you sampled a good variety of phones, then went to Stax and never looked back. I'm getting set to build a KGSSHV.
The 007mk1 is the only phone where I feel like the music is live and right in front of me. Everything else sounds like.... listening to headphones.
Even the "lowly" srx-mk3 is IMHO better than all of the orthos and dynamics I've listened to and also better than the modern 507.
Please post your impressions of the 009 kgsshv match when you get the amp.


----------



## negura

argybargy said:


> Like me, it looks like you sampled a good variety of phones, then went to Stax and never looked back. I'm getting set to build a KGSSHV.
> The 007mk1 is the only phone where I feel like the music is live and right in front of me. Everything else sounds like.... listening to headphones.
> Even the "lowly" srx-mk3 is IMHO better than all of the orthos and dynamics I've listened to and also better than the modern 507.
> Please post your impressions of the 009 kgsshv match when you get the amp.


 
  
 I was in a somewhat fortunate position to be able to compare the HD800s, LCD-3s and SR007s MKIs over many weeks and voiced by the same amplifier and downstream, obviously volume matched (I learnt to appreciate the digital preamp volume control of the PWD2 that after measurements makes that easy). It's perhaps as good of a levelled ground for comparison as there is, except with a better speaker/headphones amplifier hybrid and converter.
  
 I am not the collector type so headphones that get very limited or no head time go. Simple as that. After the arrival of the MKIs the first ones to go were the HD800s. One of the reasons is that they require special treatment to give me some sweet love back. I could get the HD800s to sound "easy living" and to my liking but at the price of modding & a downstream setup/match that is an "ideal" match with no other headphones. I consider that a flaw and they ultimately are not as transparent as they *could* be out of the box. Once the MKIs were in they could match or outdo the HD800s in what's important. To get out of the way and let the music flow. Surprisingly to me, even some classical music which is a strong ground of the HD800s actually sounded better on the MKIs. The HD800s won a couple of battles: better imaging & a wider soundstage, but they lost the war.
  
 With the LCD-3s I had a special relation, because they were my chillout headphones. The SR007s matched them at being forgiving/relaxed/euphonic, but better them at almost everything else. I said almost but I can't think of much where the LCD-3s are better. It was hard to justify keeping the LCD-3s.
  
 I owned or heard most TOTL dynamics. Many are great & fun sounding headphones, but indeed as a gradual process after getting the 007MKIs, I lost interest in my dynamics. I personally think the MKIs are a bit underrated in the community. They more than favorably compare with TOTL dynamics.


----------



## Argybargy

negura said:


> I owned or heard most TOTL dynamics. Many are great & fun sounding headphones, but indeed as a gradual process after getting the 007MKIs, I lost interest in my dynamics. I personally think the MKIs are a bit underrated in the community. They more than favorably compare with TOTL dynamics.


 
  
 I agree, they are underrated. I think this is partially due to more than the usual amount of sample variation and also SQ differences between versions.  Given this, IMO if you are in the market for a MK1, you should look for a one owner unit or a unit that you can audition in person.  The ones that have passed through 4-5 owners should obviously be avoided.


----------



## n3rdling

Good ears negura.  I agree with almost everything you said.
  
 4 best headphones ever: HE90, SR-009, SR-007, SR-Omega
  
 The rest are a tier or more below.


----------



## bearFNF

I liked the "fit" of the 009's on my large head better than the MKI's or MkII's, they just felt better. (poor wallet, some day, anyway)...
 The sound was also slightly better, to me, with the 009's.
  
 Do you have any fit issues with the MKI's?


----------



## negura

Not me. I am very happy with the fit of both 007s and 009s. But again I am easy with most headphones. My very average head poses no challenges I guess.
  


n3rdling said:


> Good ears negura.  I agree with almost everything you said.
> 
> 4 best headphones ever: HE90, SR-009, SR-007, SR-Omega
> 
> The rest are a tier or more below.


 
  
 Thx. What are your preferred amplifiers with the 009s and respectively 007s (MKI of course)? I am happy where I am with these two headphones, so further spend will now go into the downstream. Unless I come accross a nice SR-Omega that will screw my plans over... but that's a different subject.


----------



## n3rdling

Best I've ever heard was the DIYT2.  Best attainable amp is the Blue Hawaii.


----------



## s1rrah

amanand88keys said:


> My suggestions: get vintage Lambdas and a SRM-T1 (or T1 S). That should make you happy!


 
  
 I ended up getting a SRM-T1W amp (the larger one with pre amp function built in) and a pair of SR-307 ear speakers.
  
 I will post some impressions once I get things set up next week; I'm hoping this satisfies my need for the GS1000 speed and detail while dialing back some of the nit picky quibbles those cans have with recordings mixed hot in the treble (certain rock stuff is just not good with them at all while most all jazz/chamber stuff is).
  
 Also, re: the SRM-T1W amplifier and going out to any of you who know about passive pre amps (like the SRM-T1W includes...
  
 Would it be possible to use that amps passive pre amp and output to another, dynamic  desktop amp such as my existing Raptor tube amp or even a cheaper, decent solid state headphone amp and still get decent volume/sound via the 32ohm Grado GS1000's? Or would I just be better off using RCA splitters at the DAC?
  
 The reason I ask is that I was reading that passive pre amps were picky about the sorts of amplifiers they worked well with and also the output voltage of the source (in my case, an MHDT Labs Stockholm which is a bit low at 2.4v) ... 
  
 Ultimately, it'd be nice to keep the GS1000's for occasional use and was hoping the pre amp output of the T1W might function in that regard and it'd be a bit neater/tidy'r than splitters.
  
 Thanks for any comments...
  
 .joel


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Welp, my life is finally settling down a bit, and Ive gotten to do some longer/more serious listening with the KGSSHV and 009s. Been listening to the new Lady Gaga cd ARTPOP all evening since it just came out. And like I knew these things had bass, but holy cow, can they pound some bass when they are called upon to do so.


----------



## mechgamer123

bookbear said:


> I have a question...  I own new-ish Stax 407's.  I would like to replace the pads with ones for the 507's.  On my old Lambda's, it was a simple matter of peeling off the old perished cushions, cleaning the slight adhesive residue off the plastic housing, and pressing on the replacement cushions.  Is the process the same for the 407's and the 507 cushions?  I find several mentions of the 507 cushions also fitting the 404's, but I don't find anything about them fitting the 407's.  Will they work, size-wise and as to the method of attaching them?
> 
> Thanks for any tips!
> 
> ...


 
 I'm no Stax expert, but I was able to replace the pads on my SR-202 with 507 pads. I haven't directly compared the size of the 407 to any other Stax models, but I believe they are all the same size. My friend's SR-207s are the same size as my 202s. 
 Sorry, I know that's not really helpful, but that's the best I've got.


----------



## negura

souprknowva said:


> Welp, my life is finally settling down a bit, and Ive gotten to do some longer/more serious listening with the KGSSHV and 009s. Been listening to the new Lady Gaga cd ARTPOP all evening since it just came out. And like I knew these things had bass, but holy cow, *can they pound some bass when they are called upon to do so.*


 
  
 This. I remember before I first heard the SR-009s I had the complete wrong expectation in regards to their bass, by reading forums.  Unlike some other headphones (not necessarily Stax) what you do NOT get is a gratuitous bass presence in the signature when NOT part of the recording. Which is exactly as it should be.
  
 You could also try Prodigy - Smack My Bitch Up or pretty much anything by Infected Mushrooms. That is some mean mean bass.


----------



## 3X0

n3rdling said:


> HE90, SR-009, SR-007, SR-Omega




I'm curious to know how the SR-Omega compares to the SR-009. I've read plenty of SR-Omega vs. SR-007 impressions as well as plenty of SR-007 vs. SR-009 impressions, but very few direct comparisons of the two spoked/cartwheeled Omegas.


----------



## padam

3x0 said:


> I'm curious to know how the SR-Omega compares to the SR-009. I've read plenty of SR-Omega vs. SR-007 impressions as well as plenty of SR-007 vs. SR-009 impressions, but very few direct comparisons of the two spoked/cartwheeled Omegas.


 
 If we look at the whole sound, the SR-Omega may feel a bit more balanced in a way that is does not have a slightly "glossy" character like the SR009 exhibits, but not dark like the SR007 either. So in theory it sounds perfect, being in between the two, but also being a Stax with a big circular driver it is insanely resolving, beyond what the lesser models are capable of.
 However, the midrange does not feel quite as well "corrected" as the SR009 there is a slightly dip somewhere which I found to be distracting with vocals.
 I found the SR-Lambda to be better in that regard (not changing the tone, similar to SR009) Maybe it is amp dependent as well as I did not hear a T2 or BHSE which should probably be the weapon of choice for these.
 Also the soundstage is absolutely huge but to the point where I felt being too wide with the imaging being a bit fuzzy compared to the SR009 and deep bass is not as well defined.
 So I would say that the SR009 is better. The fit is similar between the two, but the SR-Omega is lighter (therefore looser) so probably the most comfortable headphone I tried.
  
 Some people described it as a relative to the Orpheus but what I've been told is that the HE90 (and possibly even HE60) is still quite a bit better in the midrange tone (for me) not having this distraction.
 Yes, the Omega really works wonders with many recordings but also causes a "hm" moment for me especially if I compare against my Lambda which is also bright (glaring?) to be point of being distracting and not that great in the bass, but I am able to adjust to it much better (for instance, even though the soundstage is much smaller than the SR-Omega, it feels more "believable" somehow)
 Hope this helps.


----------



## spritzer

The SR-Omega is one that truly needs a BH/T2 to behave.  It's funny how it simply snaps into focus and the overbearing bass bloat is gone, the top end becomes smooth and the midrange has an almost SR-007Mk1 quality to it.  That's the reason the T2 was designed, the new approach to driver design needed much better amplifiers.


----------



## MacedonianHero

spritzer said:


> The SR-Omega is one that truly needs a BH/T2 to behave.  It's funny how it simply snaps into focus and the overbearing bass bloat is gone, the top end becomes smooth and the midrange has an almost SR-007Mk1 quality to it.  That's the reason the T2 was designed, the new approach to driver design needed much better amplifiers.


 
 Quick question Birgir, how would they be with a KGSSHV?

 Thanks.


----------



## negura

macedonianhero said:


> Quick question Birgir, how would they be with a KGSSHV?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 I was going to ask the same, but I knew I could count on you.


----------



## MacedonianHero

negura said:


> I was going to ask the same, but I knew I could count on you.


 
 We'll see what the Don has to say.


----------



## preproman

Looks like he already did say.  
  
 "The SR-Omega is one that truly needs a BH/T2 to behave."


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> Looks like he already did say.
> 
> "The SR-Omega is one that truly needs a BH/T2 to behave."


 
 I'll let Birgir answer than.


----------



## preproman

The KGHSSV and the BHSE are not that far apart - are they?  If not, they should act / sound similar on both.  Just guessing here.


----------



## blubliss

The SR-O are very good on the KGSSHV.


----------



## spritzer

preproman said:


> The KGHSSV and the BHSE are not that far apart - are they?  If not, they should act / sound similar on both.  Just guessing here.


 
  
 You can easily spot which amp you are listening to, KGSSHV or BHSE, so there is a difference.  The KGSSHV gets as close as you can with a SS unit but it still can't match the tube units or rather, how the tube units are designed.  The EL34 is an excellent output device in its own right but it's more with how it is used that the transistors just can't match.  This is especially telling here as the KGSSHV and BHSE share so much circuitry. 
  


blubliss said:


> The SR-O are very good on the KGSSHV.


 
  
 That is pretty much it.  The HV isn't able to fully clean up the bass or settle the treble but it gets close.  Hard to spot without side by side comparisons too.


----------



## 3X0

spritzer said:


> The SR-Omega is one that truly needs a BH/T2 to behave.  It's funny how it simply snaps into focus and the *overbearing bass bloat* is gone, the *top end becomes smooth* and the midrange has an almost SR-007Mk1 quality to it.  That's the reason the T2 was designed, the new approach to driver design needed much better amplifiers.


 
 It's funny because as good as the Omega is, I can vaguely perceive this shortfall-from-ideal from my 323S. I'm not sure I feel limited enough by the 323S to justify laying down another $4000 though.
  
 Yet even so, it is an order of a magnitude greater than all else I have heard in recent memory.
  
 I deeply enjoy the immense soundstage, so it looks like I may not be as interested in the SR-009 after all. Is the SR-009 more resolving than the SR-Omega? The latter seems almost impossibly resolving; I can't imagine rendering finer detail than this.


----------



## padam

3x0 said:


> It's funny because as good as the Omega is, I can vaguely perceive this shortfall-from-ideal from my 323S. I'm not sure I feel limited enough by the 323S to justify laying down another $4000 though.
> 
> Yet even so, it is an order of a magnitude greater than all else I have heard in recent memory.
> 
> I deeply enjoy the immense soundstage, so it looks like I may not be as interested in the SR-009 after all. Is the SR-009 more resolving than the SR-Omega? The latter seems almost impossibly resolving; I can't imagine rendering finer detail than this.


 
 It is easier to pin-point the instruments (like with the SR007) so it can be a little better resolving in that way (this is more apparent with multi-channel recordings, minimally-miked stuff there is no big 'imaging' advantage even compared to Lambdas) but it is more about the frequency response which emphasizes different details (of course it should be flat but that doesn't exist and heavily affected by the ear shape as well as described in the old darth_nut review)
 The soundstage is almost as big on the SR009 as well as long as you get used to that headphone it is fine (when you get used to a sound and then change to a different one, it takes some time to appreciate what that gives to you - that's my experience anyway)


----------



## milosz

Who made these??


----------



## complin

They look like they may be rebadged Stax SR5's?
  
 Quote:


milosz said:


> Who made these??


----------



## complin

.


----------



## milosz

They have a coiled cord, which I didn't think Stax ever used.  Who knows.


----------



## MDR30

[quote name="milosz" url="/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/780#post_9988046"]Who made these??   [/quote]
  
 The cable, plug and box reminds me of my NAD electrostat, which according to some sources (albeit old) is a variety of the SR3 headphone.


----------



## livewire

They were made for Radio Shack by Stax and are a SR3 mutant.


----------



## spritzer

milosz said:


> Who made these??


 
  
 Not sure who made them but the sockets, transformers and drivers are all from Stax.  They are not Stax compatible though as both the diaphragm setup and the pinout is different.  Pretty dreadful phones too...
  
 Pretty much the same set was sold as Nad, Magnavox, Marantz and some others that I'm forgetting.  I bought at least 6 sets of the Magnavox back in the day when they were sold NIB for 50$ or so. 
  


3x0 said:


> It's funny because as good as the Omega is, I can vaguely perceive this shortfall-from-ideal from my 323S. I'm not sure I feel limited enough by the 323S to justify laying down another $4000 though.
> 
> Yet even so, it is an order of a magnitude greater than all else I have heard in recent memory.
> 
> I deeply enjoy the immense soundstage, so it looks like I may not be as interested in the SR-009 after all. Is the SR-009 more resolving than the SR-Omega? The latter seems almost impossibly resolving; I can't imagine rendering finer detail than this.


 
  
 The issue of whether the 009 is more resolving comes up quite often.  I'm not convinced it is any more resolving than either of the Omegas though the detail presentation is more apparent, i.e. pushed in your face.  For me it was simple, sold the 009 and kept the SR-Omega...


----------



## mechgamer123

Sorry if this has been covered before, but does Stax "farting" actually damage the driver at all? It seems there are times when I have the left driver placed a certain way on my ear, it makes a bit of farting whenever I move my jaw. Am I slowly killing the driver off by doing that?


----------



## chinsettawong

The "fart" won't kill your deiver.


----------



## Pier Paolo

Ihave the 507 and the 202 but I have never heard this "farts". I have heard squeaks (from the 202). May be Ihave not well understood what to hear?


----------



## milosz

Stax Fart = sound of air pressure changes causing the plastic dust seal to move
  
 How to produce:

Put Stax on your head. Doesn't need to be plugged in to amplifier, does not need to be playing music
Using the tips of your fingers press gently on the earcup, and press a little so the earcup moves gently towards your ear, compressing the earpad a little on that side.
Release the pressure of your fingertips - stop pushing on the earcup.  You will hear a sound- it varies from a "crinkle" sound like a plastic bag being balled up to a "flapping" sound - or a combination of these sounds.
After release of the pressure from your fingertips there will be the brief sound- this is the "Stax fart"- and the headphones will quickly settle down as air pressure between the inner (ear) side and the outside world rapidly equalizes.
  
 It's called a fart because, like flatulence, it is a sound related to movement of gas to equilibrate pressure between inside and outside.....  in the case of the headphones, changes of pressure in the "ear space" as you press on the earcup cause the dust seal to move, pull, stretch a bit trying to equalize the force of  air in the "earspace" which has become slightly compressed by moving the earcup closer to the ear which reduces the volume of the "earspace."  And, after all, PV=nRT :  here we are making  V smaller while R, n and T remain essentially the same so P must increase. (Actually T probably goes up a little, as well.... but not significantly.)


----------



## Scottsmrnyc

Anyone enjoying their Stax 4070s.  I do like these.


----------



## wink

Wish I had a pair.


----------



## DefQon

Those are using SR-3 drivers same as the Magnavox and Kmart clones. Additionally on top of the mentioned ones from Birgir.


----------



## shipsupt

scottsmrnyc said:


> Anyone enjoying their Stax 4070s.  I do like these.


 
  
 I've been enjoying mine at work for the past few weeks.  The office was getting too noisy for my open STAX so I dragged in the closed 4070's.  The isolation has been good, and the music even better.  
  
 I have a spare set of pads that I am considering using as the pads feel a bit "flat" on these.  I also with that there was bit of "gimbal" for the cups to swivel because I always feel like they could use a little movement to allow the front and back alignment to be better on my head.  Other than that I've always really appreciated the construction of the 4070's.


----------



## DefQon

Any inside pics?


----------



## shipsupt

Of the 4070's?


----------



## DefQon

shipsupt said:


> Of the 4070's?




Yes. No pictures of the 4070 innards has ever been posted.


----------



## shipsupt

Interesting, surprised no one has cracked them open already for some photos.
  
 When I do the ear pads I could certainly carry on and open them up for some internal shots.  I'm only hesitant because I don't know that I'll ever find any more replacement pads, so I'm trying to hang on as long as I can before I use my last set!


----------



## DefQon

Thanks will be waiting for some pics till those pads die.


----------



## glorkaglickflic

I'm just starting out.  I do not have a dedicated stereo system.  I have a late 2012 IMac with the headphone jack in the rear.  All music is through ITunes Apple Lossless, and I'm considering going to JRiver and FLAC.  I'm considering getting the Stax SRS-4170 system which includes the Stax SR 407 ear speaker and the Stax *SRM-006tS driver. * I guess Stax paired the ear speaker with that particular driver because they felt it was the best pairing.  Would I be able to drive this system directly out of the rear headphone jack on my Mac?  I know that the Stax SRS-2170 system can be driven out of an iPod, PC, and Mac, but am not sure about the 4170 system.  I e-mailed Stax directly with my query, but have not heard back from them.  
  
 I have other questions.
  
 Do you think there are compromises between the 2170 and 4170 systems?
  
 I was considering also getting the Stax SR 507.  I noticed that Stax kind of pairs this off with the STAX SRM-600LE driver.  I noticed that the driver for the 4170 system and the driver for the Stax SRS 570 have vacuum tubes.  I know that vacuum tubes have a limited lifespan and was wondering how to replace the tubes when they wear out, since I don't think that Stax is truly represented in the United States, and judging from they're not responding to my simple query, their customer service may not be the most prompt.  I'm not into tube rolling which can get very complicated and expensive.  What I was wondering was if the Stax 407 and the Stax 507 could be driven by the STAX SRM-323S solid state driver.  First of all, the driver would be cheaper, which is a big consideration for me.  Secondly, that driver is solid state which would mean no tube hassles.  Would there be a lot of compromises with the STAX SRM-323S driver and the Stax 407 or Stax 507?
  
 I'd appreciate any answers.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Currawong

glorkaglickflic:  A Stax rig is pretty resolving. You'd want to do better than just use the headphone output of your Mac. I'd also avoid JRiver as seem to be perpetually in beta and full of bugs. It wont be an improvement over iTunes _especially_ out of the headphone jack. 
  
 Maybe more usefully, please tell us why you decided on Stax and not other headphones?


----------



## glorkaglickflic

Because I've done due diligence and decided that I want the most resolving and neutral headphones I could afford.  I have investigated the Hifiman and Audeze orthos and have come to the conclusion that I want estats.
  
 From what I understand, the audio output of the Mac is considered very good.
  
 However, my question regarding if my Mac can drive the Stax drivers remains unanswered.


----------



## shipsupt

Avoiding the question of quality, technically the Mac can be used as the source for the SRM-600tS with the correct interconnect.


----------



## davidsh

It might be better to settle for a lesser Stax setup and get a proper dac


----------



## glorkaglickflic

shipsupt:  The jack on the rear of the IMAc is an S/PDIF stereo 3.5 mini-phono jack.  What would be the correct interconnect?
  
  
davidsh:  The DAC would be my next purchase after the Staxes.  I do understand this.  Right now I have the "Bit Perfect" app on my iMac.  The DAC purchase was always a factor, but I will not compromise regarding sound quality in my budget level, and will not settle for a lesser Stax set-up.


----------



## deadlylover

glorkaglickflic said:


> However, my question regarding if my Mac can drive the Stax drivers remains unanswered.


 
  
 The only issue might be the noise floor on the Mac, you might get some hum/hiss, try it with some sensitive earphones first if you've haven't already.
  
 Otherwise, it'll work fine with the right cable (male 3.5mm stereo to 2x male RCA, they are very common), you can always upgrade to an external DAC later when funds permit.
  
 The SRM-323 is a great performer and superb value for money, it'll work a treat for Lambda's, but whether or not you'll prefer it to the tube options is another matter entirely.


----------



## spritzer

shipsupt said:


> Interesting, surprised no one has cracked them open already for some photos.
> 
> When I do the ear pads I could certainly carry on and open them up for some internal shots.  I'm only hesitant because I don't know that I'll ever find any more replacement pads, so I'm trying to hang on as long as I can before I use my last set!


 
  
 Back when they were new we posted pics which are probably long gone.  Most of the discussion about what makes them tick was private though...  Very neat design and the bass reflex setup is one of those "why didn't somebody do that before" designs.
  
 The 4070 is 100% a SR-404 with different housing and arc so any Lambda earpads will fit.  You might get some problems from the newer Lambda units though as they are thinner than the old (stock) units.


----------



## davidsh

From my understanding none of the lambdas of the current series is superior to one another, but has minor differences, though 307 and 407 should sound the same. If you really want best sound for your money there's of course the vintage lambdas and amps..


----------



## SquireC

Spotted this link on another site if anyone is interested. Hope this doesn't break any forum rules.
  
 Don't know who the seller is.
  
 Stax SR-3 & SRD-5 - Electrostatic ear speakers (headphones) dating from early 1970s with SRD-5 energiser, in excellent condition with original manual. Photos on request. £175.00 plus p&p - contact T2o AT greenbee.net (Mid Beds UK}


----------



## glorkaglickflic

deadlover:  I have an unmodded pair of Fostex T50 RPs and do not hear any noise.  Are these considered sensitive headphones?


----------



## deadlylover

glorkaglickflic said:


> deadlover:  I have an unmodded pair of Fostex T50 RPs and do not hear any noise.  Are these considered sensitive headphones?


 
  
Try the free earphones that you get when buying a phone or mp3 player, they are much more sensitive, just use whatever IEMs you have lying around.
  
If you do happen have noise issues with the STAX, you can always just use a cheap DAC to get you by until you splash out for a 'proper' one, there's no need to make a big deal out of it.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

davidsh said:


> It might be better to settle for a lesser Stax setup and get a proper dac


 

 I'd suggest the same: go for a less expensive Stax system and spend the rest of the money on a nice dac.


----------



## Nemeske88

Dear Forum,
  
 Do anybody have a set of NB-Sigma for sale at a reasonable price?


----------



## shipsupt

glorkaglickflic said:


> shipsupt:  The jack on the rear of the IMAc is an S/PDIF stereo 3.5 mini-phono jack.  What would be the correct interconnect?


 
  
 Essentially you just need one of these. 
  

  
http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Premium-3-5mm-Stereo-Plated/dp/B002K8A75I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384978512&sr=8-1&keywords=3.5mm+to+rca


----------



## DefQon

I get loud humming using a rca to 3.5mm straight from my mac to my 323S.


----------



## glorkaglickflic

deadlylover:  I have a pair of Ultra Ears and have listened to some DDD classical music and do not hear any noise worth mentioning when plugged into the rear headphone jack of my Mac.


----------



## shipsupt

YMMV... FWIW... and all that good stuff...
  
 I just moved a 717 next to my iMac and connected it with a 3.5mm to RCA.  Dead quiet. Music plays.
  
  
  
 Extra info... fine print... I just couldn't resist adding...
 I was just listening to the same set up but using a NAD M51 DAC.  I'd like to say there is no big difference, but there is a big difference.  The direct analog out from the Mac is probably pretty good, until you hear something much better.  There are some super cheap DAC options that are sure to beat it.  Don't understate the importance of a good source.  Ok, off the soap box.


----------



## DefQon

I think there is a grounding issue with macbooks.


----------



## mechgamer123

Maybe get one of these until you can afford something better?
http://hifimediy.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=107


----------



## baxter97

currawong said:


> glorkaglickflic:  A Stax rig is pretty resolving. You'd want to do better than just use the headphone output of your Mac. I'd also avoid JRiver as seem to be perpetually in beta and full of bugs. It wont be an improvement over iTunes _especially_ out of the headphone jack.
> 
> Maybe more usefully, please tell us why you decided on Stax and not other headphones?


 
  
  
 Even with an adequate DAC, would the SR-407, for instance, be suitable for Rock recordings, or is it just too resolving, would there be better options? I listen to mostly Rock and Reggae (and some Pop) from the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's. Thanks.


----------



## arnaud

I can understand why someone new here has a hard time making decisions as the scale of product value is completely skewed. 

For instance, we often read how critical the amplifier is. Pushed to the extreme, we get the silly argument that you should pick an amp first and a transducer next. The truth is, a lot of this is often related inflatuation to justify expensive purchases else heavily influenced (i.e 2nd hand) opinion based on too much reading these forums. 

We don't hear such claims about the source being critical as often and my best guess here is that it's because there are many more amp builders adversiting here (directly or through word of mouth) than high end source makers.

To answer the OP about the pairing of an imac line out with a lamdba rig. Considering you have made your mind about the type of sound you're looking for, I can only encourage you to pursue this. 

Surely, I can imagine that the limiting factor will be the source but the good news is that it won't suck nevertheless (read about David1961's pairing of an ipod line out with a BHSE/009 rig). You'll have plenty of choices to explore new source later on. 

If you start with an average transducer, no amp and no source in the world is going to transcend it. In terms of resolution, cleanliness, precision, there is no question estat is the way to go, whatever you read in the forums about the latest and greatest dynamic, isodynamic and other BA. 

Also, my best advice is to take the active/hot product discussions here with a good pinch of salt as the posted impressions often are heavily tainted by new toy syndrome / self-justification / sheep mentality.

The stax threads are not immune either. We get so much propaganda about how critical it is to pair a 009 phone with a 5 grand aftermarket amp. Truth is, once you do the test yourself, you realise it may not be so, at least to your ears. For me, from direct experience, I am now more keen on spending 5 grands on the source than upgrading the amp. Thing is, there are many more stat amp vendors / posters related to the vendors here than people related to dac/source vendors...

So in the end, by all means, keep you own mind open, and try the gear by yourself. For all I know, you might hate the "thin" sound / lack of body from stat sound (the most common reason for people to prefer orthos to stats).


----------



## padam

I've always stated that the source is more critical than the amp but since I never had a had the chance to compare the modded 727II (a really solid amp) with a BHSE I still cannot be sure about how significant the upgrade can be.
 But I think a certain characteristic of the headphone will still be kept (for instance an O2 will have much better controlled bass and less dark but it will always be a bit dark compared to the others etc. etc.)
  
 I agree that it is technically more advanced in preserving the details etc. but how our mind reacts to this kind type of presentation is a different thing - in my experience anyway.
  
 What I (noticed only a few weeks ago, oddly) this that even if the SR Lambda is capable of resolving quite a bit above my HD250 Linear Mk1 headphones, sometimes with the latter my mind still manages to pick up detail that I didn't notice with the Stax as it revealed so much that it slightly shifted focus to different things. So in that regard I wouldn't necessary call the former a more detailed despite the fact that it would dominate on measurements and stuff.
 Also, I think the slower pacing of the dynamic headphone may have a role in this and it doesn't hurt that it is sealed as well (if they re-consider developing a 4070-like headphone I think there would be a lot of demand for it)
 It is very interesting and I think I think I couldn't live without either. Sometimes less equals more (and not just for older recordings)
  
 So in my opinion all three types of transducers have their own places, but the electrostats are certainly still too under-appreciated compared to the other ones.
 And that's because not only they are only produced by one small company (for the moment, I don't know how serious Sennheiser is going to be), it is not being marketed nearly as heavily as other products. Maybe some changes are going to happen under the new ownership, who knows.
 So if you think about this being embedded in the pricing of other products, you are getting more for your money's worth by buying a Stax in this sense (especially with the headphones, if I remember right I read that their profit is mainly gained by the amps and not the headphones).
 Just something to keep in mind, when the next "newest, best thing" is going to be introduced.


----------



## DefQon

IF you want a heaps of bass from an SR-5, remove the wool dampening and place 1 layer or tissue paper. S hitloads of bass and the mid range is less dampened. This is purely for fun.


----------



## Currawong

Arnaud, I've said it before, but I think it comes down, a lot of the time, to what type and how good the music is that people listen to and, importantly, how loud they listen to whether a lot of expensive gear is "worth it". That, and spending money wisely and in good proportion is a lot harder than just spending a lot of money and hoping for an improvement.
  
 padam: I think that, essentially, Stax can build more daring products now they don't have to worry about bankrupting themselves as they may potentially have done with the SR-009s without outside funding.
  
 baxter97: I think for good recordings Stax are great. Funnily enough, Michael Jackson's recordings are excellent and I know at least one 'stat owner here who listens to '80s music.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

I listen to roughly 70% metal of all varieties, 15% rock/alternative and 15% pop...none of those genres are known for being particularly well recorded, but I still love the 009s


----------



## davidsh

Great discussion


----------



## Andrasdesoria

My theory is that one has to observe how live music is played. If a type of music is in real life situation amplified music and you can only hear through dynamic speakers in real life situation, for that music better suit to a good dynamic headphone, than a stax. But if the music is not amplified, than electrostat is a better gear to reproduce. As far as the rock of the 70-80s concerned, my experience is, that a sennheiser hd650 is one the best possible cans. The fullsome, mid-bass heavy coloration and bit veiled sound of the HD 650 is much like that real life concert experience and I think suit very well to this type of music. Stax ( I have in-depth experience only with sr-x3)  does not able to reproduce fully that raw, brutal and fullsome rythmic music, but highlights the deficiencies of the recording (Led Zeppelin II is a pain on stax). Modern well recorded pop, like Amy Winehouse, with effects and highly emotional singing is a draw between the two. One may prefer the resolving power, speed and ability to faithfully reproduce snaps of the music of (this is stax) or the brute force of a dynamic can. Of course, your brain is compensating the mistakes of the transducer and thus one can fully enjoy any kind of music on any kind of transducer, provided that he/she does not concentrate on what is she/he is missing in the reproduction and what are the mistakes of the can and what would be a better solution.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

> Originally Posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> (...)
> ...


 
 Make that two. Jackson is great with stats, and I also isten to Al Jarreau and others a lot. I love the spirit of '80s music!


----------



## arnaud

currawong said:


> Arnaud, I've said it before, but I think it comes down, a lot of the time, to what type and how good the music is that people listen to and, importantly, how loud they listen to whether a lot of expensive gear is "worth it". That, and spending money wisely and in good proportion is a lot harder than just spending a lot of money and hoping for an improvement.
> 
> padam: I think that, essentially, Stax can build more daring products now they don't have to worry about bankrupting themselves as they may potentially have done with the SR-009s without outside funding.
> 
> baxter97: I think for good recordings Stax are great. Funnily enough, Michael Jackson's recordings are excellent and I know at least one 'stat owner here who listens to '80s music.




I think I know who you're referring to  and I'm with you about the listening habits affecting the gear you're after / sounding best to one's ears.


----------



## arnaud

To clarify my position on the stat gear:

1. I listen at mild levels, to mostly non/amplified instruments and/or voices.

2. I value instrument placement / separation over sheer soundstage width. 

3. I value bass texture over impact and certainly dislike artificially rounded bass.

4. I value resolution and speed over smoothed sound, else I use a specific headphone for these recordings that don't deserve the attention (imho, one is in the wrong hobby if trying to get a rig that sounds best with any music. There is no need to spend big bucks for this and it's not what I call high fidelity).

5. It all starts in the midrange and a headphone that does not make voices sound right is not a headphone for me.

6. With experience, I got less and less tolerant of gear that smears treble, confuses extension with artificial increase in treble / peakiness.

7. I am not sure I can say I am striving for a neutral sound as "neutral sounding" is whatever sound signature one is used to after extensive listen to the same gear... But in general, I'd say if all the parameters above are right, there is a good chance the gear will actually be not far from neutral.

Based on all this, by far the best transducer I've heard to date is the 009 and the source seems to be paramount to nail some of these parameters such as realistic instrument placement in the room, proper feeling of room ambience, cleanliness of the treble. Much more than the amplifier what the little experience I've had so far (am getting more chances to listen / compare high end amps and the BHSE will eventually get here so this may change).

Now if one has totally different set of requirements toward enjoying his gear, certainly all bets are off. But there again, I am not sure that what should be called high fidelity.


----------



## arturo71

I would like to share my experience about what matters more between amps or cans.

Some months ago I bought a Stax SR-009 and I compared it with my SR-007A and the two amps I had at the time: Stax SRM-007tII and BHSE. I compared them four ways, i.e. each can with each amp. It helped that I was alone in the house for a few weeks as my family was away on holidays.

In short, my conclusion was that, at least for those Stax cans, the headphones matter more for the sound signature than the amplifier. The intrinsic properties of the 009 sound were there with whichever of the two amplifiers I plugged. And the same for the 007A. Also the 009 is easier to drive and it did not improve as much by the BHSE from the SRM-007tII as the 007A did.

To be clear, I think the 009 is better than the 007 and the BHSE is better than the SRM-007tII. But my point is that the buying decision in the headphone is more important. So in that comparison the headphones mattered more than the amp. "Matter more" in the sense of putting more money on them or to build a system around them, i.e. buying them first. Of course you can only know which one you like best (009 or 007) if you have tried both. 

But it is not so easy because there is another factor: the sound signature of your preference. I asked myself: the combo 009+SRM007 costs more or less the same as the combo 007A+BHSE. If I had to choose one, which one should I keep? If I had to start again, I would tend to think 009+SRM007 is better spent money, but the sound signatures of the 009 and 007 are so different that personal preference on this matter would be the starting point. 

If I had to start again and If I only wanted 1 headphone and 1 amplifier this is what I would do. However I enjoy the differences between headphones and amps, that's why I have several. I am lucky enough that I can afford that.

My experience with dynamic headphones is also that the sound signature is intrinsic to the cans and amps will only adjust, correct or tame it, so "cans matter more", but some cans really really scale up much more with a better amplifier than the electrostats, for instance Sennheisers HD-800 or HD-600.

So it all depends I guess.


----------



## SquireC

squirec said:


> Spotted this link on another site if anyone is interested. Hope this doesn't break any forum rules.
> 
> Don't know who the seller is.
> 
> Stax SR-3 & SRD-5 - Electrostatic ear speakers (headphones) dating from early 1970s with SRD-5 energiser, in excellent condition with original manual. Photos on request. £175.00 plus p&p - contact T2o AT greenbee.net (Mid Beds UK}


 

 Just to correct this for anyone interested, the contact address is t2o@greenbee.net


----------



## rgs9200m

I listen to  60s, 70s, 80s, + modern music (mostly popular) on my 009 phones + 007tA amp and it sounds great, bass and all, musical and revealing at once.
 No need to change anything for me unless I ever somehow have a lot more money to burn and experiment with.
 (DAC and cables and power conditioner all make a big difference, but everything fell into place here.)
 (I love my dynamics too, for the record.)
  
 007mark 1 phones with the 007t amp were too weak-sounding for me; I sold those phones. Like Arturo wrote so well just above, SR007 and SR009 phones are completely different beasts.
 The SR007s sound a lot like the older Staxes, and could be mistaken for each other, like Lambdas I had.
 But the 009s have a whole new sound, much more revealing and insightful and gripping. 
  
 I still don't understand the problems with the 009 bass I read about, as the bass is great because it is very well incorporated with the rest of the spectrum and the objects that generate it;
 it's extremely natural bass, more natural bass than any other phones, with lots of bass detail.
  
 Of course, the dynamics and older Staxes are less super-clear and thus more relaxing, and I can read while using those,
 whereas with the 009s I just have to listen.


----------



## jaycalgary

My older Lambda Signatures and Sr-x pros should be off your less clear more relaxing list


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

rgs9200m said:


> I listen to  60s, 70s, 80s, + modern music (mostly popular) on my 009 phones + 007tA amp and it sounds great, bass and all, musical and revealing at once.
> No need to change anything for me unless I ever somehow have a lot more money to burn and experiment with.
> (DAC and cables and power conditioner all make a big difference, but everything fell into place here.)
> (I love my dynamics too, for the record.)
> ...


 

 With the Lambda Signatures I have no chance to do anything else while I am listening with them. So for me they are surely NOT "less super-clear and thus more relaxing"...


----------



## DefQon

The 007 regardless of version sound nothing like the Lambdas or any other old Stax headphones,probably the SR-002 comes close in sound tonality because it is also warm and slightly laid back. If anything sounds similar to some of the Lambdas is the 009's bright and forward but better in nearly all aspects of sound.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I do love the sound of my Normal Bias Lambda out of my SRD-7/SB, whatever speaker amp I'm using. Yeah, it's clearly bright, but it's so much fun.
 My SR-5 has a kind of vintage sound, with tons of mids and more impact on low-mids, but details, imaging and resolution are far from my Lambda. Excellent choice for some olds LPs with crackling noise.
 SR-009 out of the SRM-727 is like a cask strenght whisky. There's more and more, in every aspect, but there's so much extension and details...overdose is somewhat close 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Next quest : an decent amp for my 2001's HD600, so narrow and veiled compared to Stax cans...
  
 Ali


----------



## n3rdling

rgs9200m said:


> The SR007s sound a lot like the older Staxes, and could be mistaken for each other, like Lambdas I had.


 
 This is simply not true...at all.  In fact, the SR-007 is about the furthest away from your typical Lambda of all electrostats out there.


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## davidsh

jaycalgary said:


> My older Lambda Signatures and Sr-x pros should be off your less clear more relaxing list


 
 ^Lol, I second that!
  
 Really want to dig further down into Stax territory, just think I need to develope my music taste and overall experience first, as estats seem to be quite demanding beasts if you want to appreciate them to the fullest.


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## dukeskd

007 mkI has a sound signature no where near all the Stax headphones, both previous and present. The only Lambda that comes in close to that "dark" signature is the Lambda Nova Sig, but other wise they have completely different sound stages, detail retrieval, bass quality, etc.
  
 I, for one, prefer the 007 mkI over the 009s. The 007s make the music more intimate and the treble isn't as sharp as the 009 with the bass better defined. I actually would rather have the Hifiman HE6 to the SR-009 (and I do). Of course this is all my personal opinion in conjunction with my own musical preferences.
  




  
  
  
  
  
Lets get ready for the 009 fan boys to chime in


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## negura

I am going to keep my 007MKIs very close, as well as the 009s. One of the reasons being the 007s are the best metal music headphones I heard. Now if one is lucky enough to have one or two good metal recordings (LOL), the 009s are really something too. With a ton of other genres the 009s really shine. Actually both of them do.


----------



## dukeskd

negura said:


> I am going to keep my 007MKIs very close, as well as the 009s. One of the reasons being the 007s are the best metal music headphones I heard. Now if one is lucky enough to have one or two good metal recordings (LOL), the 009s are really something too. With a ton of other genres the 009s really shine. Actually both of them do.


 
 In my experience, the 009s excelled with acoustic guitar and male vocals.


----------



## MacedonianHero

arturo71 said:


> I would like to share my experience about what matters more between amps or cans.
> 
> Some months ago I bought a Stax SR-009 and I compared it with my SR-007A and the two amps I had at the time: Stax SRM-007tII and BHSE. I compared them four ways, i.e. each can with each amp. It helped that I was alone in the house for a few weeks as my family was away on holidays.
> 
> ...


 
 Great write up on these two great headphones...and not just because I happen to agree with you.


----------



## barid

so which one of you outbid me for that 717 on ebay


----------



## ALSO

(Where was the 717 listed on eBay?  Am I missing listings?)


----------



## rgs9200m

I did have the Lambda Nova sigs back in 1998-9 with both the T1W amp and the 007t amp, if that puts my earlier comment in perspective. 
 I can't say I ever found the phone's sound to be fatiguing at all. It wasn't dark, just not what I would describe as a grandiose sound, but more mid-centric,
 very delicate. 
 I found the SR007/mark 1 I owned a little later to be similar, but with more rounded images, more detail, but still with an emphasis on delicacy and speed,
 with a little more profound bass and and a bit more extension in the highs as the Lambda Novas, but still the 2 phones seemed cut from the same cloth.
  
 For the record, these phones were my main phones for several years with various CD players and cables.
  
 I do understand the Stax amps were probably holding them back from their full potential.
 I did hear the SR007 mark 2s on a Woo Wes and did hear a more grand sound, but for some reason I did not hear the nice detail and sweetness and delicate sound of my old mark 1s
 as I remember them.
 There was lots of bass in the mark 2s, but it was more cloudy/opaque than I remember the mark 1's bass. It reminded me of more of a dynamic phone.
  
 The mark 2s were quite comfy though, and I wish the 009s were as comfortable.
 (Not that the 009s are uncomfortable, it's just that I find the 007 mark 2s feel really good and soothing with those just-firm-enough pads with just the
 right shape for me. They feel exquisite on the ears and on the top of my head.)


----------



## barid

also said:


> (Where was the 717 listed on eBay?  Am I missing listings?)




Yeah was on ebay. Looks like it went for 1200. I went to 1105 but i get the feeling i was going to be 1 upped even if i went higher.


----------



## DefQon

dukeskd said:


> In my experience, the 009s excelled with acoustic guitar and male vocals.


 
  
 What this!!!??? You've gone back to the LCD3's?


----------



## dukeskd

defqon said:


> What this!!!??? You've gone back to the LCD3's?


 
 As I currently do not have a high-end stat amp, it's temporarily back to LCD3 and HE6. However, I'll never abandon the Stax mafia  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (I am too afraid of what spritzer will do if I do).


----------



## wink

Wise decision.
  
 Disregard your wallet, and order a BHSE.       You know you want to.


----------



## arnaud

dukeskd said:


> Lets get ready for the 009 fan boys to chime in




No worries, I am a vocal advocate of the 009, do not share your or spritzer's dislike of the same, but likewize also appreciate the differing sound sig of my 007mk1 and can't wait to hear the pairing with the BHSE .

Arturo71, thank you for the informative feedback!


----------



## dukeskd

arnaud said:


> No worries, I am a vocal advocate of the 009, do not share your or spritzer's dislike of the same, but likewize also appreciate the differing sound sig of my 007mk1 and can't wait to hear the pairing with the BHSE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If all I listened to was jazz, acoustic guitar and acoustic vocals, the SR009 would be end-game for me. Did you order a BHSE ?


----------



## MacedonianHero

I happen to love the SR009/KGSSHV combo with rock, hard rock, prog rock, and metal (the majority of my music). Simply outstanding for pretty much every genre I've thrown at them.


----------



## johnwmclean

arnaud said:


> No worries, I am a vocal advocate of the 009, do not share your or spritzer's dislike of the same, but likewize also appreciate the differing sound sig of my 007mk1 and can't wait to hear the pairing with the BHSE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The 007MK1s are a bitch load, the BHSE and T2 are the only amps I’ve heard that wake them up.


----------



## DefQon

johnwmclean said:


> The 007MK1s are a bitch load, the BHSE and T2 are the only amps I’ve heard that wake them up.


 
 Is this from nattonrice (Tom's) builds?


----------



## arnaud

dukeskd said:


> Did you order a BHSE ?




Ordered over a year ago, decided on the color, cancelled the order, changed my mind and went back on, want another color now but haven't heard from justin about that one as he probably thinks I am incapable of making up my mind .


----------



## johnwmclean

defqon said:


> Is this from nattonrice (Tom's) builds?




Indeed. I bought his BHSE btw.


----------



## davidsh

What metal is worthy of Stax? Just interested, am always having a hard time finding decent metal recordings.


----------



## negura

davidsh said:


> What metal is worthy of Stax? Just interested, am always having a hard time finding decent metal recordings.


 
  
 Good question. Below are some that I found to have decent/good recordings and I actually mostly listen to with my SR009s. Effectively all metal goes perfectly with the SR007s though.
  
 - Agalloch (Progressive/Black/Acoustic Metal)
 - Rhapsody (Power metal)
 - In Flames (Gothenburg metal) - except a couple early ones
 - post 2000s Rotting Christ (black metal)
 - Sepultura (Death Metal)
 - Turisas (Viking Metal)
 - Opeth (Progressive Metal)
 - Lake of Tears (gothic/doom metal)
 - Ensiferum (viking)
  
  
 If they have remasters I tend to go with those.


----------



## DefQon

negura said:


> - Opeth (Progressive Metal)


----------



## davidsh

I like slayers south of heaven and reign in blood along with the earlier metallica. Some of children of bodom's work is listenable as well, also Lamb of god. Never really got into Opeth for example. What I have heard seems slightly bland and lacks dynamics to the point of being fatigueing. That's how I feel about a lot of metal. I have only heard 'Watershed', though.


----------



## DefQon

Vildhjarta.


----------



## negura

davidsh said:


> I like slayers south of heaven and reign in blood along with the earlier metallica. Some of children of bodom's work is listenable as well, also Lamb of god. Never really got into Opeth for example. What I have heard seems slightly bland and lacks dynamics to the point of being fatigueing. That's how I feel about a lot of metal. I have only heard 'Watershed', though.


 
  
 Yeah, good mention, Children of Bodom. With the exception of 'Something Wild' which I actually like a lot, but the recording severely lacks dynamics and sounds compressed, the rest are progressively better in SQ. Well mostly.


----------



## davidsh

Follow the Reaper for the win! I kinda like Gojira, but again there's this lack of dynamics.. Wintersun with their album 'time' is quite cool btw, especially if you know how it is produced/mixed. Not that I really dig it, but it's cool.


----------



## negura

defqon said:


> Vildhjarta.


 Good stuff this. I really like where the thread is going. More metal for Stax is always awesome. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
 Quote:


davidsh said:


> Follow the Reaper for the win! I kinda like Gojira, but again there's this lack of dynamics.. Wintersun with their album 'time' is quite cool btw, especially if you know how it is produced/mixed. Not that I really dig it, but it's cool.


 
  
 Yes, Gojira I really like as a band. I did not mention them on purpose for that same reason. It sounds quite flat on high-end gear. It is however OK on portable gear, so it's my commuting music.


----------



## davidsh

So.. Crème de la crème? I'll nominate some of the Slayer stuff and 'master of puppets' as well with my Stax gear. Just my opinion, haven't really digged too deep yet. Guess we better soon round this off before it gets too OT


----------



## negura

Anathema has to be mentioned. Some recordings are almost benchmark level. I didn't mention them right away, but after thinking a bit about it they still classify as metal.


----------



## third_eye

Anathema's Weather Systems is a benchmark recording for me. Gojira's Way of All Flesh and The Link are clean too, the newer one, not so much.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

negura said:


> Anathema has to be mentioned. Some recordings are almost benchmark level. I didn't mention them right away, but after thinking a bit about it they still classify as metal.


 


third_eye said:


> Anathema's Weather Systems is a benchmark recording for me. Gojira's Way of All Flesh and The Link are clean too, the newer one, not so much.


 
 Thanks to you guys I have discovered Anathema.


----------



## negura

Some of my favourite Anathema songs (not necessarily because of the recording): Judgement, Hope, Release (love the beggining. benchmark level), Panic, Anyone Anywhere,  Untouchable Part 1 (another benchmark). 
  
 Quote:


third_eye said:


> Anathema's Weather Systems is a benchmark recording for me. Gojira's Way of All Flesh and The Link are clean too, the newer one, not so much.


 
  
 Hey, thanks for that. Actually "The Link (Re-Release, 2005)" sounds very very clean indeed. SR-009 enjoyable clean.


----------



## rgs9200m

I believe a dedicated music forum on head-fi would be useful now. Music keeps coming up in almost every thread.


----------



## spritzer

The Castle remixes of the Iron Maiden albums are also pretty great. 
  
 Quote:


dukeskd said:


> As I currently do not have a high-end stat amp, it's temporarily back to LCD3 and HE6. However, I'll never abandon the Stax mafia
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You are right to be worried...


----------



## negura

I'm glad music isn't the primary purpose for all this stuff. ) J/K.


----------



## livewire

Me too!
 I'd much rather listen to documentaries concerning goat ranchers in Montana.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

Yeah, I got my Stax setup because listening to audiobooks just isn't the same with dynamics. You really need a big soundstage for those recordings!


----------



## dukeskd

Greatly mixed/mastered records by *Kamelot  *(power metal) is great with Stax.


----------



## arnaud

So many more Stax owners fans of metal than I expected . My collection of metal (is it?) resumes itself to "early" metallica (master of puppets / justice for all / ride the lightning), the black album... Haven't listened to these in some time, but I recall the black album not playing so well at loud volume with the 009/srm727.
  
 Probably out of topic, but I discovered dream theatre through HDtracks (a dramatic turns of events), which I felt very cheesy and refreshingly rich at the same time. What kind of classification is this and, since the band seems to have evolved with the years, what records are worth exploring next?


----------



## davidsh

Anathema seems pretty promising, started listening to resonance 2 (though with my HE-500). Never really got into dream theater either. What I have heard is decent just not wow.. Many seem to like it here around head-fi, though.
  
 Who said Stax setup purely for gaming? Dat imaging


----------



## dukeskd

arnaud said:


> Probably out of topic, but I discovered dream theatre through HDtracks (a dramatic turns of events), which I felt very cheesy and refreshingly rich at the same time. What kind of classification is this and, since the band seems to have evolved with the years, what records are worth exploring next?


 
 If you liked Dream Theatre but want a different flavor, check out *The Winery Dogs *.


----------



## DefQon

davidsh said:


> Anathema seems pretty promising, started listening to resonance 2 (though with my HE-500). Never really got into dream theater either. What I have heard is decent just not wow.. Many seem to like it here around head-fi, though.
> 
> Who said Stax setup purely for gaming? Dat imaging


 
 Ohhh mannn Anathema brings back some memories, just rediscovered them.
  
 I use Stax for gaming.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

I use mine for plenty of gaming and watching of anime as well


----------



## mechgamer123

souprknowva said:


> I use mine for plenty of gaming and watching of anime as well


 

 Of course, in your case you can change that $2000 to however much you paid for your SR-009s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I hooked up my SRM-212 to my PC soundcard with Dolby Headphone and the gaming experience was quite epic with my 202.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

mechgamer123 said:


> Of course, in your case you can change that $2000 to however much you paid for your SR-009s.
> 
> I hooked up my SRM-212 to my PC soundcard with Dolby Headphone and the gaming experience was quite epic with my 202.



Not too mention the cost of the HV and my Master 7 -_-


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

Here's a great opportunity for all Head-fi members to discover and enjoy new music:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/690854/2013-head-fi-holiday-gift-exchange
  
 Keep the tradition alive, sign up!


----------



## nattonrice

I too am guilty of using my stax/t2 as a glorified sound card.
  
 It looks stupid when I do it but people have no idea how awesome playing games with them is.


----------



## negura

I found in game music on Stax is so hi-def.  Pitty there aren't as many good games as there used to be, or I must be getting old.


----------



## schorsch

Hello out there)

 had a phone call with Mr. Pawel who told me that it will be possible to use the HP-1 Processor with the SR-009. He can readjust my old unit for the SR-009. He is going to send me an email about the costs later on this year.
  
 Hope this is interesting to some of you.
  
 He mentioned the 507 being  a real bargain with the HP-1!
  
 Regards Georg


----------



## negura

Is it me/my gear or the SR007 MKIs need a bit of volume (compared to the SR-009s for example, but others too) to really kick some major ass? I think once they make it past 70something dB they are rocking massively.


----------



## dukeskd

negura said:


> Is it me/my gear or the SR007 MKIs need a bit of volume (compared to the SR-009s for example, but others too) to really kick some major ass? I think once they make it past 70something dB they are rocking massively.


 
 009s are more efficient than 007s, so it makes sense.


----------



## purk

nattonrice said:


> *I too am guilty of using my stax/t2 as a glorified sound card.*
> 
> It looks stupid when I do it but people have no idea how awesome playing games with them is.


 
  
 My T2 is on double duties.  It serves as the coolest looking space heater in my computer room.


----------



## georgep

purk said:


> My T2 is on double duties.  It serves as the coolest looking space heater in my computer room.



 


My wife doesn't think it is the coolest looking.... though it is in our bedroom...


----------



## purk

georgep said:


> purk said:
> 
> 
> > My T2 is on double duties.  It serves as the coolest looking space heater in my computer room.
> ...


 
 I hope she finds you more appealing than the amp though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 No more listening in my bedroom given that my daughter is a very light sleeper.


----------



## Andrasdesoria

This is cd makes me remember to one of the most moving concert I have ever seen. Bach Johannes Passion with Kuijken, four singers, four in a choir and a very minimal group of musicians. If I remember well even there was  smaller group, only 3-5  string players, two flutes, two oboes, a lute, and an organ. A moving, intimate, tender and at the same time heartbreaking performance, .


----------



## MacedonianHero

georgep said:


> purk said:
> 
> 
> > My T2 is on double duties.  It serves as the coolest looking space heater in my computer room.
> ...


 
  
 Well George...if you're looking at moving the T2 out to keep your wife happy.


----------



## georgep

macedonianhero said:


> Well George...if you're looking at moving the T2 out to keep your wife happy.


 
  
 Peter, you are most accommodating and selfless... she is very toterlant though... but I will keep you in mind should things change.


----------



## MacedonianHero

georgep said:


> Peter, you are most accommodating and selfless... she is very toterlant though... but I will keep you in mind should things change.


 
 LoL, I do what I can.


----------



## blubliss

I'll build you one for $15k


----------



## MacedonianHero

blubliss said:


> I'll build you one for $15k


 
 That's a bit more than I'd want to pay....plus George is only about a 20 minute drive away...so shipping costs wouldn't be through the roof. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That said, I'm exceedingly happy with the KGSSHV (w/SA1968) that he built.


----------



## blubliss

The HV is an excellent amp, I have an IXYS one.


----------



## MacedonianHero

blubliss said:


> The HV is an excellent amp, I have an IXYS one.


 
 Yes, yes it is!


----------



## DefQon

blubliss said:


> I'll build you one for $15k


 
 Worldwide shipping available?


----------



## blubliss

I was pretty much kidding, building the T2 is a major hassle. I do have many parts for one more so I will either build it or keep the parts as backup.


----------



## georgep

Yes it is. And if you try, and run into problems, you end up with a 60lb mega-buck doorstop.


----------



## charlo89

Hi everyone,
  
 Sorry if my English is not perfect I am french.
 I have some questions about amp for SR-009 I just bought my sr009 on price japan.
 Actually I use an SRM-252s, I know is the worst stax amp  but it's provisory. I would like to buy an new amp, I really love the SR-009, but there is one thing that it can be better, it's the treble, they are a little bit aggressive on my setup.
  
 I see 3 amp in my budget. The stax SRM-323s, the SRM-006ts and the Woo audio GES. I see everywhere that the 323s is a relly good amp, but can it make treble smoother, and what about SRM-006ts is it the ugly duckling stax amp ? I don't have many information on it.
  
 Thank you everyone for reading.


----------



## visualguy

charlo89 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Sorry if my English is not perfect I am french.
> I have some questions about amp for SR-009 I just bought my sr009 on price japan.
> ...


 
  
 The SR-009 naturally cause fatigue - that's the main problem with them. One approach that works for me is to listen to them at low volume. This works in a very quiet environment. Since these headphones offer virtually no isolation, you really need to listen to them in a quiet environment. Otherwise, you end up increasing the volume to the level where you get fatigue, and you lose some of the details because of the ambient noise, so why bother listening to the SR-009 in that case.
  
 Another approach is to use the SRM-727 amplifier (without modifying it). The SR-009 aren't as harsh with this amp. The SRM-323 isn't a good match, and neither is the SRM-007t. The KGSS is good, but you need to listen at low volume.
  
 I'm personally not a huge fan of the SR-009. I think they are technically superb, but way too fatiguing. I like the ATH-W3000ANV a lot more, for example, even though they are less neutral and not quite as capable as the SR-009. They're just so much easier on the ears while still maintaining excellent sound quality, level of detail, and soundstage. They also offer some isolation which is extremely important to perceived sound quality in any environment where there's some noise (even just the fans on a computer). The problem with the W3000 is that they become uncomfortable after a while because they press on the ears. My dream headphones would sound like the W3000 and isolate like them (or more), while having ear pads that surround the ears rather than press on them.


----------



## jaycalgary

Wow I luv my 009's. If the treble is considered a little bright oh well. I enjoy them on my kgss or 717. You can attack them calling them bright all you want but I don't find them harsh in any way up there. I can play loud and it doesn't both me because the treble is more smooth than sharp. Recordinga with too much treble or recorded poorly are a problem though. These are easily the best I have heard.


----------



## charlo89

Thank you for you're reply.
 I prefer treble smoother, and I really found that treble on the SR-009 are agressive, the 009 is perfect on the rest, incredible natural but treble ruin it. (on my setup) On a few songs that do not go very high, the sr009 is just amazing, but when we have a strong female voice, it does not longer work.
  
 I will listen on shop when I will come back to France all Stax amp distributed (323, 006, 600 and I hope to find 727, 007) and I will listen an audio gd ref 5 witch is really smooth. I think that is the best solution, but I gladly take all your comments and opinions. Before my SR-009 I had a SR-007MKII, it is less natural but it does not hurt my ears. Something important on my feelings about the 009, I'm pretty young and I listen to music at low volume.


----------



## rx79ez08

visualguy said:


> I like the ATH-W3000ANV a lot more, for example, even though they are less neutral and not quite as capable as the SR-009. They're just so much easier on the ears while still maintaining excellent sound quality, level of detail, and soundstage. They also offer some isolation which is extremely important to perceived sound quality in any environment where there's some noise (even just the fans on a computer). The problem with the W3000 is that they become uncomfortable after a while because they press on the ears. My dream headphones would sound like the W3000 and isolate like them (or more), while having ear pads that surround the ears rather than press on them.


 
  
 Have you tried the TH900, it's comparable if not better than W3000 in most way (sound isolation). It's earpad also surround the ears, so it is probably close to what you are after.
  
 Back on topic, I am also interested in what people think of the GES. The only real comment I seen about it is Spritzer saying he don't really care for it in some old thread, but did not include much of a reason behind the statement. Would be very interested in see why that is the case.


----------



## shipsupt

I've got a GES that I have been using while building one amp and waiting for delivery of another. Now that I think about it, it's been over a year. I won't comment on the design, there is plenty of information available on that if you dig through the threads here, or maybe someone will offer more on that.

The GES has been reliable and capable. It pairs well with the HE-60 and 009, but lacks the grunt needed for the 007s. For the price, especially what it can be had for used, it's a great amp to consider. I like having an option between SS and tubes and keep a 717 sitting right next to it, but unless I'm reaching for the 007s I find that I tend to fire up the GES if I plan to listen for a while. It won't blow your hair back, but it does little wrong.


----------



## DefQon

blubliss said:


> I was pretty much kidding, building the T2 is a major hassle. I do have many parts for one more so I will either build it or keep the parts as backup.




Shame and I was being serious. I can build diy but the T2 is beyond my knowledge and skillset. Looks like a major PITA to build to let alone any troubleshooting.


----------



## visualguy

rx79ez08 said:


> Have you tried the TH900, it's comparable if not better than W3000 in most way (sound isolation). It's earpad also surround the ears, so it is probably close to what you are after.


 
  
 I'm planning to try the TH-900. I'm a little bit concerned about the midrange on those since it's reported to be somewhat recessed...


----------



## barid

So, I had my first listen to Stax over the past weekend.  The 507's out of a KGSS.  I found them to be painfully bright, and didn't really see too many benefits over some of the dynamics I have.  Going to try and get my hands on a 007 next, perhaps I need something darker.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

barid said:


> So, I had my first listen to Stax over the past weekend.  The 507's out of a KGSS.  I found them to be painfully bright, and didn't really see too many benefits over some of the dynamics I have.  Going to try and get my hands on a 007 next, perhaps I need something darker.


 

 Why the 507? You chose one of the most polarizing Stax earspeakers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Or was it the only option available?


----------



## barid

amanand88keys said:


> Why the 507? You chose one of the most polarizing Stax earspeakers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Was waiting to find a decent deal on a used pair of 007's and a good price on a basically new set of 507's came up on the FS forums so I figured I'd give them a shot.


----------



## negura

charlo89 said:


> Thank you for you're reply.
> I prefer treble smoother, and I really found that treble on the SR-009 are agressive, the 009 is perfect on the rest, incredible natural but treble ruin it. (on my setup) On a few songs that do not go very high, the sr009 is just amazing, but when we have a strong female voice, it does not longer work.
> 
> I will listen on shop when I will come back to France all Stax amp distributed (323, 006, 600 and I hope to find 727, 007) and I will listen an audio gd ref 5 witch is really smooth. I think that is the best solution, but I gladly take all your comments and opinions. Before my SR-009 I had a SR-007MKII, it is less natural but it does not hurt my ears. Something important on my feelings about the 009, I'm pretty young and I listen to music at low volume.


 
  
 With the 009s on a lower budget. A decent SET speaker tube amplifier + Woo Wee and do not look back.


----------



## rgs9200m

I still recommend the 007t/ii amp that I use.
 I needed to use warmish (or at least neutral) interconnects (single-ended works best for me) like Cardas Golden Cross and use a similarly warmish copper power cord on it (I use an old Shunyata Anaconda).
 I still swear by the 007t/ii for the 009. It deals well with the fatigue factor and has a definite tube character. 
  
 The thing about the 009 is that it is quite sensitive to upstream cables (and other components, of course), but that gives you lots of options to tune the sound.
 It took some work and experimentation, but it worked for me eventually so that everything is in equilibrium now, even at higher volumes with most of my music (popular, some classical, not much jazz).
  
 Just my 2 cents, but I sense that if ever a phone needed some tube sound upfront, it's the 009.
 Good luck.


----------



## greggf

I imagine the 007TII would indeed be good with the 009, because it certainly warms up and makes nice music with the 407.


----------



## AnakChan

Personally for me the 007tA (Jp version of the 007t/ii) didn't work too well for the 009 for quite a few genre of the music I was listening to. I actually borrowed my friend's 007tA for a few weeks and had it side-by-side with the 727A and found the 007tA to be slow for faster music such as 80's vocal pop, and more modern R&B, hiphop, etc. The 007tA OTOH was fine with the slower vocal Jazz genre & classical.
  
 I actually had the 007tA owner and another friend pop by to compare too for a couple of hours.
  
 In the end, the 727A was the more genre-agnostic amp so I stuck to the 727A for the next 20 months until recently replacing it with the Electra.


----------



## jaycalgary

T1 was nice for a while then how tuby it sounded wasn't as realistic to me like the KGSS. The treble on the 009's is so refined I don't know how anyone could confuse it for harsh.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jaycalgary said:


> T1 was nice for a while then how tuby it sounded wasn't as realistic to me like the KGSS. The treble on the 009's is so refined I don't know how anyone could confuse it for harsh.


 
  
 Could be the source/recording?...I find the KGSS/KGSSHV/SR-009 very dependent on that.


----------



## jaycalgary

I have been using a Nad M51 till the something new/better comes out. I use to have a W4S Dac 2 that probably would have been harsher on the ears to think of it.


----------



## visualguy

No, the SRM-007tII is not good with the SR-009 in my experience. Among all the Stax amps that I owned (323S, 727A, 007tA), only the 727A had good synergy with the SR-009.
  
 At any rate, I haven't found a good solution to the fatiguing nature of the SR-009 (just slightly different degrees of fatigue with different equipment), so I now rarely listen to them, and when I do, I make sure I have a silent environment and I set the volume low.
  
 By the way, this is just another area where speakers beat headphones by a large margin. You can get sound that's even better than that of the SR-009 without the fatigue. Nothing fancy is needed... A pair of Focal powered near-field monitors (like the Twin6) will do the trick without any complicated placement or room treatment requirements.


----------



## jaycalgary

Sorry you feel major fatigue but that has not been my experience and certainly can play them at decent volumes. Maybe check with a hearing specialist about tinnitus? Pretty hard to pull out the resolution of the 009's on anyhing but a real special stereo .


----------



## visualguy

jaycalgary said:


> Sorry you feel major fatigue but that has not been my experience and certainly can play them at decent volumes. Maybe check with a hearing specialist about tinnitus? Pretty hard to pull out the resolution of the 009's on anyhing but a real special stereo .


 
  
 Good powered studio monitors (like the Focal Twin6 that I mentioned) easily give you the resolution of the SR-009. I can tell you from my experience that from a sound quality perspective there's zero advantage to any of the many headphones setups that I've had when compared to the studio monitors setup (not to mention a higher-end speakers setup).
  
 It's not always possible to listen to speakers, so headphones have their uses, but I think a lot of headphones lovers are really missing out by assuming that speakers setups are too expensive, require a lot of room, special placement, room treatment, etc. It really doesn't take much with speakers to exceed what you can get with any headphones, including the SR-009. Also, less risk of getting tinnitus...
  
 Anyway, just mentioning this in passing...


----------



## negura

Not good people cannot enjoy these babies. I listen to the 009s all day long and sometimes around 80+dB loud. 0 fatigue. I did get fatigue with the Hd800s though. And I am very sensitive to brightness as in hot treble. Single ended tube amp + Wee. Very musical combo. I will try another speaker amp soon.


----------



## jaycalgary

Well I am not buying what he is trying to sell here. I am thinking he is something like an internet troll. I think he should go to a hearing doctor and get his ears checked for tinnitus and come back with a doctors note before he posts again.


----------



## rgs9200m

anakchan said:


> Personally for me the 007tA (Jp version of the 007t/ii) didn't work too well for the 009 for quite a few genre of the music I was listening to. I actually borrowed my friend's 007tA for a few weeks and had it side-by-side with the 727A and found the 007tA to be slow for faster music such as 80's vocal pop, and more modern R&B, hiphop, etc. The 007tA OTOH was fine with the slower vocal Jazz genre & classical.
> 
> I actually had the 007tA owner and another friend pop by to compare too for a couple of hours.
> 
> In the end, the 727A was the more genre-agnostic amp so I stuck to the 727A for the next 20 months until recently replacing it with the Electra.


 
 Actually I think we are hearing the same thing. The 007tA is slower, but the for the 009 for me, it's just what the doctor ordered, because the 009 is so fast, it can handle it.
 So it's a good match. I sure find the 009 with this amp as fast and furious as any headphone I have heard (certainly any dynamic).
 So it just may be a matter of preference. Thanks for your perspective.


----------



## arnaud

visualguy said:


> Good powered studio monitors (like the Focal Twin6 that I mentioned) easily give you the resolution of the SR-009. *I can tell you from my experience that from a sound quality perspective there's zero advantage to any of the many headphones setups that I've had when compared to the studio monitors setup *(not to mention a higher-end speakers setup).
> 
> It's not always possible to listen to speakers, so headphones have their uses, but I think a lot of headphones lovers are really missing out by assuming that speakers setups are too expensive, require a lot of room, special placement, room treatment, etc. It really doesn't take much with speakers to exceed what you can get with any headphones, including the SR-009. Also, less risk of getting tinnitus...
> 
> *Anyway, just mentioning this in passing...*




If not trolling, I'd say you're barking at the wrong tree. From your experience, it seems clear headphones don't deliver for the sonic attributes you *personnally* pay attention to when listening to your favorite music. 

My experience is quite the opposite. I keep hearing high end speaker systems in dedicated audio rooms and systematically come out more confirmed with my choices. 

Maybe because I have given up on speakers so long ago that my brain got used to headphones presentation. But more importantly, I'd say we all obviously hear very differently and to different styles of music. Even if it sometimes is difficult to admit, some people are definitely chasing the wrong bird and probably would be happier enjoying other hobbies (speaker audio to start with if the conditions are right).

Arnaud


----------



## greggf

I have to agree with Arnaud.  I've had many speaker systems, and I prefer headphones.  Speakers are not "better", they're just different, and much more expensive if you want a result as good as any Stax or top-level dynamic.  That said, many love 'em.


----------



## visualguy

I listen to both headphones and speakers. Headphones mostly when I don't want to bother other people. Otherwise, speakers.
  
 Anyway, this was about the SR-009. I think I'm in good company in terms of people who can't listen to them at decent volume for a long period of time without getting fatigued. They aren't as bad in this regard as the SR-507 that I had, but still problematic. I listen mostly to classical music.
  
 The SR-007mk1 are much better in this area, but they don't quite have the same level of clarity and soundstage of the SR-009.
  
 All headphones seem to have some flaws. Even my beloved W3000 due to the way they press on the earlobes.


----------



## gilency

Arnaud is right. Some of us prefer headphones.
 And cables wont make the 009 (or any other phone sound better or worse). But the placebo effect is however undeniable.


----------



## davidsh

gilency said:


> Arnaud is right. Some of us prefer headphones.
> And cables wont make the 009 (or any other phone sound better or worse). But the placebo effect is however undeniable.


 
 Whatever floats ones boat. I agree with you, though. Have experienced what I'd suppose is the placebo effect myself (perceiving differences between cables), yet I don't believe cables making a difference.


----------



## DefQon

So I can input my say as well, I prefer speakers too (quite evidently due to my lack of activity recently on these boards), there is nothing that interests me now, I mean the 009's are nice but I for one got over it after a few more auditions. You don't need spend a crazy amount to get to the 009 performance, just as there are stellar headphones there are stellar speakers (especially near-fields) for less but a major PITA to get right with tuning acoustical treatment to your room and another disadvantage is that speakers are not portable, you can't take them to another remote location with a simple plug and play.
  
 Anyway enough of my imo and ramblings...
  
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VERY-RARE-STAX-SRA-14S-Integrated-Amplifier-for-Ear-speaker-/200990597166?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item2ecbf9202e&_uhb=1
  
 Overpriced doesn't even describe it....great condition though and not as popular as it's 12S brother, one could build a KGSS/HV with that amount.
  
 Peace.


----------



## milosz

I prefer speakers, too.  STAX  speakers....


----------



## shipsupt

defqon said:


> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VERY-RARE-STAX-SRA-14S-Integrated-Amplifier-for-Ear-speaker-/200990597166?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item2ecbf9202e&_uhb=1
> 
> Overpriced doesn't even describe it....great condition though and not as popular as it's 12S brother, one could build a KGSS/HV with that amount.
> 
> Peace.


 
  
 I'd love to own one of these, but I'd ideally like to find one with some expansion cards for the phono stage.  I can't imagine finding them outside of an existing unit.
  
 It does have a best offer option!


----------



## 3X0

visualguy said:


> I like the ATH-W3000ANV a lot more, for example, even though they are less neutral and not quite as capable as the SR-009. They're just so much easier on the ears while still maintaining excellent sound quality, level of detail, and soundstage. They also offer some isolation which is extremely important to perceived sound quality in any environment where there's some noise (even just the fans on a computer). The problem with the W3000 is that they become uncomfortable after a while because they press on the ears. My dream headphones would sound like the W3000 and isolate like them (or more), while having ear pads that surround the ears rather than press on them.


 
 I loved my W3000ANVs, but they were far more fatiguing than any electrostatic I've used (even relative to the HE60). They're pretty bright and don't approach the resolution of the high-end electrostatics IMHO.
  
 My favorite thing about my experience with electrostatics so far as that they have great treble performance while being listenable for days. Bright dynamic transducers get pretty offensive pretty quickly.
  
 I also doubt it is possible to achieve a _greater_ level of resolution than the very best electrostatic transducers. I enjoy the ability to perceive all available information from the source material.


----------



## spritzer

defqon said:


> So I can input my say as well, I prefer speakers too (quite evidently due to my lack of activity recently on these boards), there is nothing that interests me now, I mean the 009's are nice but I for one got over it after a few more auditions. You don't need spend a crazy amount to get to the 009 performance, just as there are stellar headphones there are stellar speakers (especially near-fields) for less but a major PITA to get right with tuning acoustical treatment to your room and another disadvantage is that speakers are not portable, you can't take them to another remote location with a simple plug and play.
> 
> Anyway enough of my imo and ramblings...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Holy hell, I should sell my SRA-14S at some point then...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The biggest pain I've ever had to deal with when servicing this crazy beast.  Dozens and dozens of wires all over the place and they are all soldered in place.  Add that do brittle circuit boards and a very odd product design for a very unique challenge. 
  
 Still have to replace the transformer too as they will all fail eventually.


----------



## DefQon

milosz said:


> I prefer speakers, too.  STAX  speakers....


 
 From a few sources I've read apparently the early Stax speakers suffered a lot from build quality issues.
  
  


shipsupt said:


> I'd love to own one of these, but I'd ideally like to find one with some expansion cards for the phono stage.  I can't imagine finding them outside of an existing unit.
> 
> It does have a best offer option!


 
  
 Essentially an SRA-12S just with external PS and expansion cards. I wouldn't mind one if I had a TT for phono output.


----------



## spritzer

The SRA-14S is nothing like the SRA-12S...


----------



## schorsch

Well, 
There 3 SRA14s in the market weithin in week. But there is a Crazy Collection here in Germany who wants to Set up some atax Ensembles with SRA preamps.

He buys all stax stuff

I ca swap an mm or line Board for a condensor board

Erhards George


----------



## schorsch

milosz said:


> I prefer speakers, too.  STAX  speakers....
> 
> :wink_face:


Where do you get Service for stax speakers?

Georg


----------



## jaycalgary

I'd say Electrostatic Solutions these days.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

Fellow Stax mafiosos,
  
 I need your help. Yesterday I noticed, for the first time, a very, very low humming noise coming from my modified T1. This starts as soon as I hit the pre-heat button and without any source feeding the amp. To make things clear: the noise comes from the amp and is audible when sitting next to it (1-2 ft)!
  
 This is very odd, what could be the cause of this problem?
  
 Thanks in advance for any help...
  
 Edit: it's a slight, not easily audible noise. I still cannot tell with certainity from where it comes exactly, but it's definitely the amp itself. It doesn't seem to effect sound quality when I listen with my Lambda Signatures.


----------



## spritzer

Change out the tubes, that would be my first port of call.  With only preheat engaged only the low voltage windings are active and hum usually means too much current being passed.


----------



## davidsh

It's just the trafo. I experience it with some of my gear as well. Nothing to worry about afaik


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

amanand88keys said:


> Fellow Stax mafiosos,
> 
> I need your help. Yesterday I noticed, for the first time, a very, very low humming noise coming from my modified T1. This starts as soon as I hit the pre-heat button and without any source feeding the amp. To make things clear: the noise comes from the amp and is audible when sitting next to it (1-2 ft)!
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Could be that one of your tubes is going bad.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

I will be joining you guys next week with some stax lambda nova classics.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

tjj226 angel said:


> Could be that one of your tubes is going bad.


 
 Wouldn't that have an effect on sound quality? I once experienced a bad tube on a headphone amp for dynamics, which had a huge impact on what came out of the headphones.


----------



## edstrelow

jaycalgary said:


> Well I am not buying what he is trying to sell here. I am thinking he is something like an internet troll. I think he should go to a hearing doctor and get his ears checked for tinnitus and come back with a doctors note before he posts again.


 
 I tend to agree.  I pay little or no attention to posts from people who don't list equipment in their profile.  You have no idea where they are coming from. and mostly it seems to be from nowhere.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

Problem solved: it was the placement of the amp! Looks like the T1 vibrates ever so slightly when it's switched on. I put it on a place where the rubber feet on the back (where the trafo is) have contact with a spot on the desk that allows for this low pitched hum. When I switch on the amp and slightly lift it up so that those feet have no contact, the noise is gone.
 In a way the vibrations of the amp on that particular spot caused the amp to turn my desk into a sort of subwoofer


----------



## jaycalgary

Could a amp like the BHSE be scaled back so it is half the power and less parts? Maybe the 009's would shine on a really refined amp without all the headroom needed for the 007's.


----------



## paradoxper

jaycalgary said:


> Could a amp like the BHSE be scaled back so it is half the power and less parts? Maybe the 009's would shine on a really refined amp without all the headroom needed for the 007's.


 
 Isn't that just a KGST?


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

amanand88keys said:


> Wouldn't that have an effect on sound quality? I once experienced a bad tube on a headphone amp for dynamics, which had a huge impact on what came out of the headphones.


 
  
 I am not quite sure. I had some cheap JJ tubes that started whining and then progressively got worse and then the sound quality started to go down hill and finally it started to red plate. 
  
 I see you got it fixed with rubber feet though.


----------



## s1rrah

Had no idea Stax made a DAC; the X2t ... check this crazy thing (anybody heard one?) : 
  
 ...
  

  
 ...
  
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/da-converters-stax-x2t-2013-11-29-digital-ha4-7rx
  
 ...


----------



## DefQon

Theres also the less expensive Talent Dac. I've only seen 2 of those for sale for alot of money on canuckaudiomart years ago.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

The problem is that for that price you can also get a very nice audionote dac and crush that dac.


----------



## jaycalgary

The Stax dac looks like a work of art but it's older than the hills for a dac. Would it even sound as good as a Nad M51 that I use?


----------



## Waltzingbeear

Well I've read many different things on this thread (only what, 3000 messages or so??)
  
 So I finally have the opportunity to give a little back.
  
 I decided a little bit ago to finally buy a direct amp for my Stax headphones (that I've had since 1972). So I bought a SRM MkII/Pro. Got it and all seemed well, recapped it (not a fan of dried out old soggy caps) and put it back together, all fine. Except I could never get a nice quiet connection, too much line noise.
  
 Was thinking about making the input differential, simple task on those units. Perused the schematics (which I found through this thread) and thought OK. doable. So this eve I opened it up to start the process. Who ever "designed" the grounding scheme for these things screwed up bad. Moved two wires, re-soldered them to the proper place, and now with the same hookup that wouldn't give me quiet audio before, it is absolutely quiet. I guess I get around to balancing it, maybe, someday.
  
 To change it to proper grounding, cut the brown and black wires from the shell of the RCA input connectors and run it directly to the wire to the chassis next to them. Remove the remaining wire that runs to the pot, THATS IT.
  
 With the as shipped wiring, it runs any ground current "past" the pot and it gets incorporated into the signal, wrong, This was a classic pin 1 problem.
  
 Cheers
 Alan
 Waltzing Bear Audio


----------



## davidsh

What is a fair price for a sigma normal bias? Assuming it is in decent condition that is..


----------



## DefQon

$450-600. Sigma Pro's fetch little higher.


----------



## 2Erly

Hmmm. I've been looking around and have been entertaining the idea of picking up a pair of 009s. I'm more of a plug and play guy and don't know much about the technical side of things so excuse my ignorance, but I was looking at picking them up with a Woo audio WEE and using a pair of vintage Nikko Alpha 230 SS speaker amp I found around my house... googled the name and turns out it is a pretty good powerful amp. I also have the matching preamp to go with it. I found some specs and was wondering if someone could make sense of it and whether it would do something decent for the 009s til I can pull a stax amp.... or maybe keep that rig if I like it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Stats for the Amp From Amazon:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Nikko-230-Stereo-Power-Amplifier/dp/B000E304YA
  
*"Continuous Power Output* 120w + 120w Min RMS per channel into 8 ohms from 20 to 20,000 Hz at rated T.H.D both channels driven Both Channels driven at 1,000Hz - 8ohms 120w +120w - 4ohms 130w + 130w Total harmonic distortion at 8ohms at rated power 0.008% Intermodulation distortion 0.008% Power Bandwidth (T.H.D. 0.05%) 5 - 70kHz Damping factor - 8ohms 70 Slow Rate 100V/uS Input sensitivity/impedance Main In - 1,000mV/50kohms Signal to noise ratio Main in - 110dB Frequency Response Main in (5-100kHz) +0/-0.5 DB Power AC 120v 60Hz Power Consumption 480W 620VA"


----------



## livewire

Seems good enough, you will probably like it.
 Most high end Stax amps are better than a Woo Wee.
 If I had the dosh, I would rather opt for a Blue Hawaii Special Edition or an Eddy Current Electra. (tube amps)
 If you know someone who does DIY ("do it yourself"), the KGSSHV is an excellent choice for a solid state amp.


----------



## glorkaglickflic

I've done my due diligence and decided to order the Stax SR 507 and Stax SRM 323S from PriceJapan.  I've decided on the Stax SRM 323S because of Spritzers recommendations stating that this is the best amp that Stax currently makes.  Is PriceJapan the best place to order them as I see that the prices are quite low.  Although, there are some Amazon sites where the Stax SR 507 is fairly inexpensive:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B004YSHA5W/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new.  As I live in the United States, will I need a step-down transformer?  I see in PriceJapan  that a Churi CSW 100W voltage transformer is listed as an option with the Stax SRM 323S?  Would you recommend this or would other brands be recommended?  
  
 I'm grateful to this site for letting me focus eventually on the electrostatics and making my final decision.
  
 Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## visualguy

glorkaglickflic said:


> I've done my due diligence and decided to order the Stax SR 507 and Stax SRM 323S from PriceJapan.  I've decided on the Stax SRM 323S because of Spritzers recommendations stating that this is the best amp that Stax currently makes.  Is PriceJapan the best place to order them as I see that the prices are quite low.  Although, there are some Amazon sites where the Stax SR 507 is fairly inexpensive:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B004YSHA5W/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new.  As I live in the United States, will I need a step-down transformer?  I see in PriceJapan  that a Churi CSW 100W voltage transformer is listed as an option with the Stax SRM 323S?  Would you recommend this or would other brands be recommended?
> 
> I'm grateful to this site for letting me focus eventually on the electrostatics and making my final decision.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help.


 
  
 Yes, you need a transformer. The Churi is good, but you can get less expensive ones, like from PowerBright.
  
 By the way, the SR-507 are very bright in general, and particularly with the SRM-323S. I had this setup, and wouldn't recommend it unless you love bright sound. Also, the SR-507 are somewhat uncomfortable.


----------



## glorkaglickflic

Would you suggest the PowerBright VC100J ?


----------



## visualguy

glorkaglickflic said:


> Would you suggest the PowerBright VC100J ?


 
  
 Yes - that worked fine for me with the SRM-323S.


----------



## justin w.

the Stax SRM-323S from PriceJapan is $640 + you have to buy a voltage converter (costs money + takes up space) + you have no U.S. warranty + no return policy or extremely expensive to return it + harder to resell the amp + Stax sees a sale to Japan, not to the U.S., further lessening their interest in this market. or, a 120V model SRM-323S is $875 shipped.
  
 as a U.S. Stax dealer, i think this is a pretty poor deal


----------



## eric65

livewire said:


> Seems good enough, you will probably like it.
> *Most high end Stax amps are better than a Woo Wee.*
> If I had the dosh, I would rather opt for a Blue Hawaii Special Edition or an Eddy Current Electra. (tube amps)
> If you know someone who does DIY ("do it yourself"), the KGSSHV is an excellent choice for a solid state amp.


 
  
 Disagree.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/681814/amplifiers-shootout-for-stax-009-eddie-current-electra-audiovalve-rkv-wooaudio-wee-stax-srm727-srm007t2


----------



## DefQon

Well technically that's cheating, the Woo Wee is an adaptor, connects to an auxilary amplifier to get its juice.


----------



## glorkaglickflic

Justin
  
 What you have stated makes sense.  The voltage converter would take up space----since you stated that you were US Stax dealer, where is your website?  Seems I have to do some more due diligence here.  Therefore, the 120V model SRM-323S needs no converter.....


----------



## glorkaglickflic

That brings up an interesting point, too.  Have many people from the United States  on the forum bought Stax products directly from PriceJapan or did they order locally?


----------



## darinf

glorkaglickflic said:


> That brings up an interesting point, too.  Have many people from the United States  on the forum bought Stax products directly from PriceJapan or did they order locally?


 
 We looked at becoming a Stax dealer, but the main reason we didn't do it was that the margins in the US were so low that anyone could buy from PriceJapan for cheaper than dealer cost. With low margins and little incentive for people to buy locally, we didn't know how we could make any money selling Stax. Yes, buying from Japan only gives you a warranty that works in Japan, but I am not sure how many people are willing to pay 25% or more just for a US warranty. For Stax 009, the US price is $1141.00 more.
  
 I am not condoning that people should buy from Japan or not, but when it comes to price, many people will buy for the cheapest price regardless.
  
 BTW, I bought all my Stax used from fellow Head-Fiers... I could not afford them new. I did buy a used Stax 323 amp from a Head-Fier in Japan and use it with a step down transformer. I don't have a US warranty, but it was out of warranty anyway.


----------



## mikek200

darinf said:


> We looked at becoming a Stax dealer, but the main reason we didn't do it was that the margins in the US were so low that anyone could buy from PriceJapan for cheaper than dealer cost. With low margins and little incentive for people to buy locally, we didn't know how we could make any money selling Stax. Yes, buying from Japan only gives you a warranty that works in Japan, but I am not sure how many people are willing to pay 25% or more just for a US warranty. For Stax 009, the US price is $1141.00 more.
> 
> I am not condoning that people should buy from Japan or not, but when it comes to price, many people will buy for the cheapest price regardless.
> 
> BTW, I bought all my Stax used from fellow Head-Fiers... I could not afford them new. I did buy a used Stax 323 amp from a Head-Fier in Japan and use it with a step down transformer. I don't have a US warranty, but it was out of warranty anyway.


 
 90% of all my gear,has been bought from other head-fiers,and,I've never had a problem,and still is the first place I look.
 However,now,I'm in the market for the 009's ,and,the $1100.00 savings,is making my decision to buy from PriceJapan,,very tempting,despite,no USA warranty.
  
 Has anyone had any problems with PriceJapan?
 Is there a way ,to send them to the USA seller,if a problem should arise?,and just buy whatever it costs,or,must I ship them back to Japan?


----------



## darinf

mikek200 said:


> 90% of all my gear,has been bought from other head-fiers,and,I've never had a problem,and still is the first place I look.
> However,now,I'm in the market for the 009's ,and,the $1100.00 savings,is making my decision to buy from PriceJapan,,very tempting,despite,no USA warranty.
> 
> Has anyone had any problems with PriceJapan?
> Is there a way ,to send them to the USA seller,if a problem should arise?,and just buy whatever it costs,or,must I ship them back to Japan?


 
 I have never used PriceJapan, but I was tempted too when buying the 009's.
  
 It's my understanding that Stax USA will not do any repairs on products purchased in Japan. You will have to send it back to Japan for warranty repair or even non-warranty repair.
  
 That's just the luck of the draw. Even if you did send it back to Japan once for repair, I am guessing it won't cost $1100 in shipping.
  
 For some it's worth the risk, for others it's not.
  
 One other factor that is the main reason I bought used is that I wanted them right away. It looks like most of the US dealers have them in stock whereas with PriceJapan it looks like you have to wait for them to arrive from the factory which can be a 4 month or longer wait. As a potential dealer, Stax USA also told us that to buy a pair of 009's for demo/stock, the wait from the factory was 4 months. I am not sure what the actual wait time is, but that's potentially a long wait. I guess the factory can't build them fast enough or they are doing their stocking dealers a favor to get people to buy from the dealers who have them in stock.


----------



## DefQon

The Stax SRM323S voltage can be changed to 100,120/220,240vac very easily and requires only 10 minutes worth of soldering.


----------



## davidsh

I find it interesting that both my Sigma and Lambda Signature has the same kind of smell. Perhaps it is the ear pads?
 Ohh, by the way, the reason the seller of the Sigma set them at a low price was because he couldn't find any prices on ebay. I find that kind of amusing, they are indeed a little rare.


----------



## mikek200

darinf said:


> I have never used PriceJapan, but I was tempted too when buying the 009's.
> 
> It's my understanding that Stax USA will not do any repairs on products purchased in Japan. You will have to send it back to Japan for warranty repair or even non-warranty repair.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Darinf,
 Thanks for this info>
  
 I'm still have the 007mkII,and just got the 727mkII amp back from Justin..,so,its nicely modded.
 I'm in no rush
 Hoping the 009's won't be too bright for me
 I listened to them at the NY meet,on a number of high end amps,to my ears,there were perfect,and extremely comfortable,much more comfortable than the 007,s.
  
 Tnx,
 Mike


----------



## justin w.

glorkaglickflic said:


> Justin
> 
> What you have stated makes sense.  The voltage converter would take up space----since you stated that you were US Stax dealer, where is your website?  Seems I have to do some more due diligence here.  Therefore, the 120V model SRM-323S needs no converter.....


 
  
 www.headamp.com
  
 it's true there's almost no margin selling Stax, i only sell it because I like the products and also build a couple electrostatic amp models.


----------



## Clsmooth391

I have the SRM-717 and thinking about moving to the KGSS DX version, I prefer a detailed and delicate as opposed to a more powerful sound. From what I have read, I am better off sticking with the SRM-717 to get what I'm looking for. I would be using it with the SR-009. I can't dem the KGSS DX so would really appreciate if someone can confirm.


----------



## Peter_S

Hey - can you guys help me from having to read thousands of posts?  I'd really like to get a set of Stax cans and a complimentary amp, but the SR-9's are just way too expensive. Is there a good resource that describes some of the other "most desirable" models?  Otherwise, I would likely go with Audeze LCD-3's or Sennheiser HD-800's. Thanks for any guidance as I start my search.
  
 Peter


----------



## jaycalgary

I have both SRM 717 and KGSS. It's not really about power as much as the KGSS sounds a lot cleaner and the 717 sounds more constricted in comparison.


----------



## Clsmooth391

jaycalgary said:


> I have both SRM 717 and KGSS. It's not really about power as much as the KGSS sounds a lot cleaner and the 717 sounds more constricted in comparison.


 
  
 Thank you for that. What headphones are you using? If have tried them with the 009s, you say that the KGSS is more harsh, especially at louder volumes?


----------



## jaycalgary

009's mostly now,  Have but rarely use 007 mk1's,sr-x pro's,Sigma Pro's, Lambda Signatures and 507's.


----------



## davidsh

peter_s said:


> Hey - can you guys help me from having to read thousands of posts?  I'd really like to get a set of Stax cans and a complimentary amp, but the SR-9's are just way too expensive. Is there a good resource that describes some of the other "most desirable" models?  Otherwise, I would likely go with Audeze LCD-3's or Sennheiser HD-800's. Thanks for any guidance as I start my search.
> 
> Peter



There's no good resources really. You have to ask or look through the threads or reviews


----------



## DefQon

Yeah diyT2 and Omegas.


----------



## NoPants

I would consider* 007 mk1 and SR-omegas* the "most desirable" of the headphones, along with the *original lambda signature / LNS* based on hubbub? You really shouldn't sleep on the less-discussed models, especially if you're trying to hit some price-conscious target- that will require some reading though.
  
 Essentially every gilmore-designed ES amplifier is desirable, mostly due to a lack of supply and only one manufacturer willing to commercialize them (not simultaneously) - the list generally includes
  
 KGSS (diy, commercial)
 KGSSDX (commercial)
*KGSSHV* *(diy)*
 KGBH (commercial)
*BHSE (commercial)*
_T2 (diy)_
  
 The bolded ones are the most accessible these days, provided you have the skills or wallet (or both). Of course you could chalk all this hype up to a few vocal users of the aforementioned equipment, but this is the internet after all.
  
 To put it in numerical terms, I can't see anyone grabbing any combination of amplifier and headphones mentioned above for less than 4 figures.


----------



## Argybargy

Wasn't the Woo GES designed by KG?


----------



## Peter_S

nopants said:


> I would consider* 007 mk1 and SR-omegas* the "most desirable" of the headphones, along with the *original lambda signature / LNS* based on hubbub? You really shouldn't sleep on the less-discussed models, especially if you're trying to hit some price-conscious target- that will require some reading though.
> 
> Essentially every gilmore-designed ES amplifier is desirable, mostly due to a lack of supply and only one manufacturer willing to commercialize them (not simultaneously) - the list generally includes
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you nopants!  That is a really good place for me to start with.  I had heard that the 007 mk2 was a bit treble rich, and that gave me pause.  I will continue researching, but also start my search.  Any other advice from folks???  Best, Peter


----------



## dukeskd

nopants said:


> I would consider* 007 mk1 and SR-omegas* the "most desirable" of the headphones, along with the *original lambda signature / LNS* based on hubbub? You really shouldn't sleep on the less-discussed models, especially if you're trying to hit some price-conscious target- that will require some reading though.


 
  The past few months I've experienced a variety of Stax and I've come to the conclusion that the best Lambdas are indeed the old Lambda Signature, LNS and Normal Bias SR-Lambda. I also like the 007mkI a lot better than the SR-009.


----------



## mikek200

peter_s said:


> Thank you nopants!  That is a really good place for me to start with.  I had heard that the 007 mk2 was a bit treble rich, and that gave me pause.  I will continue researching, but also start my search.  Any other advice from folks???  Best, Peter




Peter,,
I wouldn't,t be so quick to dismiss the 007mkII,which I also found a bit bright,when I first listened to them.
However,recently,I found a pair of 007mkII,and a 727 amp,which I sent down to Justin at Headamp,who modded it,and the result is outstanding
All this ran me,under $3K,it was purchased used,from 2 great head-fiers
I feel the 007mkII,is a bit underrated.,
Might I suggest,you start giving the buy/sell forum a strong look,sometimes,you can pick up some fantastic deals
Best of luck ,

Mike


----------



## georgep

mikek200 said:


> ...a 727 amp,which I sent down to Justin at Headamp,who modded it,and the result is outstanding...


 
  
 Hi Mike, was the mod only the feedback change or was it more drastic (replacing transistor)? Been thinking of having something like this done with mine.


----------



## Clsmooth391

mikek200 said:


> Peter,,
> I wouldn't,t be so quick to dismiss the 007mkII,which I also found a bit bright,when I first listened to them.
> However,recently,I found a pair of 007mkII,and a 727 amp,which I sent down to Justin at Headamp,who modded it,and the result is outstanding
> All this ran me,under $3K,it was purchased used,from 2 great head-fiers
> ...


 
  
 Agreed. Although I preferred the Mk1 over the Mk2, I didn't find the difference as big as some have found it in these forums.


----------



## mikek200

georgep said:


> Hi Mike, was the mod only the feedback change or was it more drastic (replacing transistor)? Been thinking of having something like this done with mine.


 
 It is best ,you contact Justin directly,
  
 Here is what he told me,when I asked the same question:
 "the mod will increase the amplifiers control over the drivers which tightens the bass and it also decreases the distortion"
  
Overall,I found there was a smoothness,that I really did not hear before.,I listen to my current setup ,sometimes 6-8 hours at a clip,and it is never fatiguing
For me,& my ears,I strongly recommend ,that this mod be done,,with my music,mostly acoustic guitar,mild jazz,classical,and now,soundtrack music,mostly Hanz Zimmer,and a few others.


----------



## georgep

Thanks for the info!


----------



## mikek200

clsmooth391 said:


> Agreed. Although I preferred the Mk1 over the Mk2, I didn't find the difference as big as some have found it in these forums.


 
 At the NY meet,I did  A-B comparisons,between the mkI vs. the mkII,and ,yes..I found little difference,but many head-fiers,seem to prefer the mkI.
 To each his own.
 Your ears will tell you ,what sounds right..
 I did try some very expensive amps at the meet,that is what made a big difference in SQ,,to my ears...the Blue Hawaii is one-wow,and wow on the price tag.


----------



## Clsmooth391

mikek200 said:


> Peter,,
> I wouldn't,t be so quick to dismiss the 007mkII,which I also found a bit bright,when I first listened to them.
> However,recently,I found a pair of 007mkII,and a 727 amp,which I sent down to Justin at Headamp,who modded it,and the result is outstanding
> All this ran me,under $3K,it was purchased used,from 2 great head-fiers
> ...


 
  
  
  
 Have you heard the 009s and if so, do you prefer them over the 007?


----------



## mikek200

clsmooth391 said:


> Have you heard the 009s and if so, do you prefer them over the 007?




I did listen to the 009's at the meet.
The clarity & detail ,are like nothing ,I,ve ever heard,also,they are extremely comfortable,even more so than my HD800's.
Right now,I,m still on the fence about them,I think,they might be a little too fatiguing ..??
I was looking at PriceJapan,and almost pulled the trigger,then my wife came in,and I ran......


----------



## Clsmooth391

mikek200 said:


> I did listen to the 009's at the meet.
> The clarity & detail ,are like nothing ,I,ve ever heard,also,they are extremely comfortable,even more so than my HD800's.
> Right now,I,m still on the fence about them,I think,they might be a little too fatiguing ..??
> I was looking at PriceJapan,and almost pulled the trigger,then my wife came in,and I ran......


 
  
 LOL. it was hard convincing my wife but done it in the end. I will be using warm upstream equipment - srm-717 and a Meridian dac. That should hopefully tame it. I also don't listen too often at high levels so that helps too.
  
 What amp did you hear the 009s with?


----------



## mikek200

Yeah,I have a feeling,I will end up getting them myself.
To be honest,the fit/comfort on my 007,s is not the best,the 009 is very comfortable..
I,m hoping my 727mkII amp will be strong enough for the 009-I,ve asked a few senior head-fiers,and they have told me ,it will be "fine"
The amp,was a huge McIntosh receiver,with some kind of adapter,setup???..it was fantastic.'which I tried on the 009's.
I believe the owners name was Chris?.....it was my first meet,so I didn't,t know anybody.

Are you contemplating an amp upgrade...if so....which one?


----------



## Clsmooth391

The 727II (not modified for feedback) is meant to be a good match with the 009s. I am contemplating the KGSS DX but from what I have read, although cleaner than the 717, it might be a little too forward in it's sound compared to what I am looking for.


----------



## gilency

Well, the KGSSHV is great with the 009. 
No, not great: excellent.


----------



## Peter_S

mikek200 said:


> Peter,,
> I wouldn't,t be so quick to dismiss the 007mkII,which I also found a bit bright,when I first listened to them.
> However,recently,I found a pair of 007mkII,and a 727 amp,which I sent down to Justin at Headamp,who modded it,and the result is outstanding
> All this ran me,under $3K,it was purchased used,from 2 great head-fiers
> ...


 

 Thanks Mike.  That was my next question, where to start looking for used Stax gear.  I will look at the head-fi  trading forum.  A little nervous about ebay, but wondering if there are more opportunities there.


----------



## barid

peter_s said:


> Thanks Mike.  That was my next question, where to start looking for used Stax gear.  I will look at the head-fi  trading forum.  A little nervous about ebay, but wondering if there are more opportunities there.


 
  
 Audiogon occasionally has some Stax gear for sale as well.  Recently bought a 007 MK2 from there.


----------



## mikek200

peter_s said:


> Thanks Mike.  That was my next question, where to start looking for used Stax gear.  I will look at the head-fi  trading forum.  A little nervous about ebay, but wondering if there are more opportunities there.


 
 You do have to be careful on e-bay,it's best to buy from sellers who have very high ratings.
  
 A lot of the Stax gear on e-bay comes from Japan,so,some might have different voltage.
 If you have your eye on something,you could show the link to one of head-fiers,that you communicate with,on a regular basis ,for his opinion/advise.
 As mentioned before,Audiogon is another excellent source.
 Head-fi ,is my first choice,though


----------



## DefQon

I'm pretty sure the original BH or KGBH is also available as diy as evidently the schematics can be found on the headwize projects page. 

Don't forget there is the Megatron as well if you like stats and tubes.


----------



## rawrster

mikek200 said:


> I did listen to the 009's at the meet.
> The clarity & detail ,are like nothing ,I,ve ever heard,also,they are extremely comfortable,even more so than my HD800's.
> Right now,I,m still on the fence about them,I think,they might be a little too fatiguing ..??
> I was looking at PriceJapan,and almost pulled the trigger,then my wife came in,and I ran......




Keep in mind that there is a long waiting period for the sr009 if you buy from there.

It's good that you did get a chance to hear them. I was originally going to buy the 009 until I heard them. I prefer the 007 over them by a good amount which was very surprising for me.


----------



## mikek200

rawrster said:


> Keep in mind that there is a long waiting period for the sr009 if you buy from there.
> 
> It's good that you did get a chance to hear them. I was originally going to buy the 009 until I heard them. I prefer the 007 over them by a good amount which was very surprising for me.


 
 Yes,I know...a 4+ month wait.,plus any repairs if any,,I will have to ship them back to Japan-not an issue for me.
 I am also looking at a pair,from the buy/sell forum,but it comes with an amp,which I do not need...now.?
  
 What exactly did you, not like, with the 009's--let me guess-brightness??
 Did you find them fatiguing?


----------



## rawrster

I wouldn't say I didn't like the 009. It's a very good headphone without a doubt but tonally I preferred the 007. My preferences have probably changed since I first got into this hobby from a neutral signature to something with a bit of warmth. I am very happy with my 007 so I don't really see the need for anything else.


----------



## DefQon

What 009 comfort over the HD800's? Blasphemy! =p

With the 009's you can fall into two groups be awed by its crazy technicalities and like it or be amazed at the sound at first then eventually get over the honeymoon phase and move onto something else thats sounds more tonally right.


----------



## davidsh

I don't find hd800 that comfortable from my short sessions. The hd700 is way more comfortable to me.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

davidsh said:


> I don't find hd800 that comfortable from my short sessions. The hd700 is way more comfortable to me.


 

 Wait, you like the HD700? Blasphemy! Don't you know you are just allowed to like the HD800?!


----------



## DefQon

davidsh said:


> I don't find hd800 that comfortable from my short sessions. The hd700 is way more comfortable to me.


 
 That is blasphemy!


----------



## mikek200

defqon said:


> What 009 comfort over the HD800's? Blasphemy! =p
> 
> With the 009's you can fall into two groups be awed by its crazy technicalities and like it or be amazed at the sound at first then eventually get over the honeymoon phase and move onto something else thats sounds more tonally right.




Well,I have to admit,I did think long and hard,before I sold my HD800 setup',you might be right,it is blasphemy.
What I should have said,l,more comfortable,than my current,007mkII,which I,m always fighting with to get the best,most secure fit.
Like I said before,I,m still on the fence concerning the 009,s,and I will need to try them out for many hours,with my current amp,before I buy..
"Crazy technicalities"
Want to explain this?


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

defqon said:


> That is blasphemy!


 
 Get him!!


----------



## DefQon

mikek200 said:


> "Crazy technicalities"
> Want to explain this?


 
 What people have been raving the 009 capable of delivering in terms of _sound_. 
  
 If you've heard one for long enough you will know what I mean.


----------



## padam

defqon said:


> What 009 comfort over the HD800's? Blasphemy! =p
> 
> With the 009's you can fall into two groups be awed by its crazy technicalities and like it or be amazed at the sound at first then eventually get over the honeymoon phase and move onto something else thats sounds more tonally right.


 
 Imho it does sound "quite right" tonally. But in today's world with the way many of the recordings are mixed, it doesn't seem to matter that much.
 Ideally it should have a more visceral bass like the 007 (mk1) but the latter sacrifices quite a few other things for that (starting with the tonality itself, especially the midrange).
 Luckily, stacking up headphones is easier than having several speaker setups.
 It is a shame I've never heard the SR009 "Realiser A8-ed" as from what I've gathered, with an appropriate profile it does make it sound much fuller (it does that to my Lambda as well, without taking away the astonishing mids, but I have no doubt that the bass would be superior on a circular Stax)


----------



## mikek200

defqon said:


> What people have been raving the 009 capable of delivering in terms of _sound_.
> 
> If you've heard one for long enough you will know what I mean.




Yes,I know what you mean,but I must admit,maybe,I've spent an hour in total with them.......so could use a bit more time.,definitely.
Also,IMHO,listening to a headphone like the 009 at a meet,is probably one of the worst places to make a decision on a headphone that runs,$4500- usd
So,I will contact the seller,who lives not to far from me,if he will allow me to take them home,for 48-72 hours,and test them out,
Of course,I will leave him a DP,if he feels it is needed.


----------



## AnakChan

padam said:


> Imho it does sound "quite right" tonally. But in today's world with the way many of the recordings are mixed, it doesn't seem to matter that much.
> Ideally it should have a more visceral bass like the 007 (mk1) but the latter sacrifices quite a few other things for that (starting with the tonality itself, especially the midrange).
> Luckily, stacking up headphones is easier than having several speaker setups.
> It is a shame I've never heard the SR009 "Realiser A8-ed" as from what I've gathered, with an appropriate profile it does make it sound much fuller (it does that to my Lambda as well, without taking away the astonishing mids, but I have no doubt that the bass would be superior on a circular Stax)


 
  
 Personally I'm not certain if I'd agree with DefQon's definition of 009 fans falling into one of the two categories. But the 009 gets more head time than my 007mk1 and I find both to be relaxing enough.
  
 I'm particularly curious about your comment the Smyth Realiser with the right profile providing a "fuller" sound. Has anyone had an opportunity to compare a SR-009 with the Realiser against the JPS Labs Abyss?


----------



## arnaud

I also find the 009 more tonally correct (in the sense of sounding tonally neutral) than the 007mk1, but that's driven from the stock 727 amp. 

Having said that, there is no question the
Mk1 strikes the best balance between correctness and masking of unpleasant nature of some (many depending on you fav music genre) of today's recordings / true tone of some instruments (ever heard a trumpet or violin in real? It's not necessarily silk and smooth at actual loudness level  ).

The 009 does not suffer of sins of commission like many a headphone do (because unfortunately, it's all a matter of compromise like ever other man made imperfect designs...). But the 009 also does not suffer sins of omission to please the ear at the expense of fidelity.

As such, the 007mk1 is much more accomodating of bright / harsh recordings or listening sessions at realistic and/or ear splitting volume levels. 

In my not so humble opinion (why should an opinion be humble?), the 009 excels at low to moderate volume levels for moderate to excellent quality recordings and is the most chameleon like headphone I've heard (in the sense it's pretty difficult to hear the same sound characteristics coming back recording after recording).

The 007 is much more tolerant of music genres and listening habits while, apparently, giving very little away to the 009 when properly fed.


----------



## 3X0

I didn't like the SR-007 the first time I heard it precisely because it felt a little reigned in and reserved against the full information present in the recordings.

I also like the Omegas for their stupefying resolution and similar chameleon-like qualities. They adapt from the silkiest jazz to the fastest electronic and hardest hip-hop like nothing else I've heard. I guess that's what people mean when the headphone should disappear?

That said, I've still yet to try the SR-009s and I'd love to hear the trio side-by-side someday. It's hard for me to guess where the SR-009 would fall in my preferences. It's very possible I might even appreciate the SR-007 more after hearing all three.


----------



## davidsh

amanand88keys said:


> defqon said:
> 
> 
> > That is blasphemy!
> ...


 
 Heh, please don't. They sound overpriced and have a weird high mid-range.. Okay?!?
  
 Personally, I have only once heard equipment that is good enough to 'dissappear'. This was a speaker setup consisting of some 10k$ DAC and 2 Spectron Musician III class-D used as monoblocks along with the SP technology Revelation speakers, all this fed from coax form a dedicated pc from some pretty expensive sound card. Have also heard same system with a 18" active sub. Don't remember the brand.
Well, the context is that just as I thought I might have a grasp on the sound signature it seemed to transform into something completely different, and I found every single track to seem to have a different signature which was very dependent on volume as well.


----------



## padam

anakchan said:


> Personally I'm not certain if I'd agree with DefQon's definition of 009 fans falling into one of the two categories. But the 009 gets more head time than my 007mk1 and I find both to be relaxing enough.
> 
> I'm particularly curious about your comment the Smyth Realiser with the right profile providing a "fuller" sound. Has anyone had an opportunity to compare a SR-009 with the Realiser against the JPS Labs Abyss?


 
 My assumption is based on various impressions and this review as well. But there is always a trade-off with any kind of EQ stepping in.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

arnaud said:


> I also find the 009 more tonally correct (in the sense of sounding tonally neutral) than the 007mk1, but that's driven from the stock 727 amp.
> 
> Having said that, there is no question the
> Mk1 strikes the best balance between correctness and masking of unpleasant nature of some (many depending on you fav music genre) of today's recordings / true tone of some instruments *(ever heard a trumpet or violin in real*? It's not necessarily silk and smooth at actual loudness level
> ...


 
 Yes I have, and I think anyone talking about right or wrong tonality should know very well how instruments and voices sound in real life.


----------



## realmassy

.


----------



## DefQon

padam said:


> Imho it does sound "quite right" tonally.


 
  
  

  
 Yes but that depends on how you define tonally quite right, I'm talking more from perspective of everything included in the package not just parts of the sound the renders life like instrument notes or such. I find the 009 a bit bright sounding, in similar ways to the 507 brightness (the latter worse to the point of sounding cold at times). Regardless of how well it sounds I have not found a single headphone that I have heard or owned (save for except the R10 or HE90 which are out of my reach) that renders piano notes realistically, imho I think the piano is one instrument very hard to produce like the real thing.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

defqon said:


> Yes but that depends on how you define tonally quite right, I'm talking more from perspective of everything included in the package not just parts of the sound the renders life like instrument notes or such. I find the 009 a bit bright sounding, in similar ways to the 507 brightness (the latter worse to the point of sounding cold at times). Regardless of how well it sounds I have not found a single headphone that I have heard or owned (save for except the R10 or HE90 which are out of my reach) that renders piano notes realistically, imho I think the piano is one instrument very hard to produce like the real thing.


 

 As someone who plays the piano and who has heard quite a number of pianists, I'd say that this has a lot to do with the SQ of the source.


----------



## davidsh

defqon said:


> Yes but that depends on how you define tonally quite right, I'm talking more from perspective of everything included in the package not just parts of the sound the renders life like instrument notes or such. I find the 009 a bit bright sounding, in similar ways to the 507 brightness (the latter worse to the point of sounding cold at times). Regardless of how well it sounds I have not found a single headphone that I have heard or owned (save for except the R10 or HE90 which are out of my reach) that renders piano notes realistically, imho I think the piano is one instrument very hard to produce like the real thing.


 
 I have always thought the exact same thing about piano.


----------



## DefQon

amanand88keys said:


> As someone who plays the piano and who has heard quite a number of pianists, I'd say that this has a lot to do with the SQ of the source.


 
 I'm going to disagree with this somewhat, the source can only do so much and we're talking about smaller percentages than amplification. It should be no excuse to say use an expensive source to balance or fix the deficiencies or limitations of the transducer.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

defqon said:


> I'm going to disagree with this somewhat, the source can only do so much and we're talking about smaller percentages than amplification. It should be no excuse to say use an expensive source to balance or fix the deficiencies or limitations of the transducer.


 

 I understand you. If the source and recording are very good and there are still imperfections - it's most likely the transducer. Otherwise, if there are several parts of the setup that could play a role in that, then it's pretty hard to tell...


----------



## milosz

Someone selling a pair of SR-009's, new and unopened, on Audiogon for under $4000
  
 Seller has no feedback so probably best to perform due diligence. 
  
 DISCLAIMER:   I have no connection with this seller, with Audiogon, with Stax or with due diligence.....


----------



## ericfarrell85

Can someone recommend their preferred albums or music of choice on the SR009?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

ericfarrell85 said:


> Can someone recommend their preferred albums or music of choice on the SR009?




All of them? I think that all of my music sounds excellent on them

Though I spend most of my time with then listening to metal. They are absolutely stunning with metal


----------



## davidsh

^isn't recording quality an issue to you (thinking about metal)


----------



## SoupRKnowva

davidsh said:


> ^isn't recording quality an issue to you (thinking about metal)




Not at all, I've never been a big proponent of using worse gear just because the recording quality isn't as good as some other music. I love the fidelity the 009s provide


----------



## spritzer

arnaud said:


> The 007 is much more tolerant of music genres and listening habits while, apparently, giving very little away to the 009 when properly fed.


 
  
 I think this sums it up nicely.  To add to it though, behavior at higher volume level is the true test of any component.  With amps this tests the circuit and power supply far more than whisper levels.  Clipping would be the most extreme case but the ability to maintain the full voltage swing into any load is what all amps should strive for.  When Tyll did his comparison of electrostatic amplifiers he dropped me a line asking for how I test 'stat amps.  My first port of call is always how they perform with hard to drive sets (Sigma's, 007Mk1) at high volume levels so that's what I told him, push them and push them hard.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This is a far bigger issue with transducers, they need to work harder to produce higher SPL and this will cause issues with the housing, diaphragm and even the stators.  Excess energy needs to be dissipated, both as vibration and as heat, which will trip up the designs.  Take any of the Lambdas and push them hard.  The driver structure is well designed but the interface with the baffle and the baffle material is not ideal as it can't transmit the extra energy as efficiently.  Same problem with the SR-Omega, the plastic skeleton that the driver rests in does the sound no favors. 
  
 Now these structural issues have been dealt with in the 009 but Stax did design them to have a sound and the Stax amps are supposed to counter that and make for a nice combination.  This are the same design choices we make when designing amps, this stage has a bit more second harmonic distortion to keep the higher orders in check and all that.  There is also one aspect of the recent Stax models that has been overlooked, why did they change to the new diaphragm material?  Now that we know what it is I can only think of one reason, even higher tensile strength that mylar. 
  


georgep said:


> Hi Mike, was the mod only the feedback change or was it more drastic (replacing transistor)? Been thinking of having something like this done with mine.


 
  
 Only one amp I know of has had the transistor swap but I for one don't understand why anybody would do that.  The 2SC5466 that Stax use is perfect for the role and is only outclassed if you need a part that handles more voltage.  All but impossible to raise the rail voltages within the 727 chassis....
  


defqon said:


> I'm pretty sure the original BH or KGBH is also available as diy as evidently the schematics can be found on the headwize projects page.
> 
> Don't forget there is the Megatron as well if you like stats and tubes.


 
  
 There are a few dozen DIY Blue Hawaii's out there so yes.


----------



## negura

Same here. I love the SR-009s with metal. Marginally more than the 7MKIs. It was surprising to me as I didn't like other neutral headphones with metal, such as the HD800s.
  
 The debate regarding tonality cannot be decided on either side. The transducer is as much responsible for end result tonality as is the rest of the downstream - all of it. I am very pleased with my SR009s atm, but will see what changes when I get my KGSSHV.


----------



## MacedonianHero

souprknowva said:


> All of them? I think that all of my music sounds excellent on them
> 
> Though I spend most of my time with then listening to metal. They are absolutely stunning with metal


 
  
 Completely agreed here too...I listen mostly to rock, prog rock, hard rock, metal and a lot of jazz (with some classical sprinkled in) and the SR-009s sound absolutely stunning with all of these genres.


----------



## DefQon

negura said:


> Same here. I love the SR-009s with metal. Marginally more than the 7MKIs. It was surprising to me as I didn't like other neutral headphones with metal, such as the HD800s.
> 
> The debate regarding tonality cannot be decided on either side. The transducer is as much responsible for end result tonality as is the rest of the downstream - all of it. I am very pleased with my SR009s atm, but will see what changes when I get my KGSSHV.


 
 I don't have the 009's but I love the stats with metal in general. Just love metal.


----------



## tigermilk

I have a last minute trip to Nagoya and figured I'd try to find some more Stax. I've been to Tokyo many times and am looking for a used shop similar to Audio Union. Any leads?


----------



## davidsh

Where do you generally range on the pot-meter with your t1 and lambda models?


----------



## Clsmooth391

Does anyone find the dual volume controls on the KGSS a pain or is it easy to get used to?


----------



## NoPants

It seems pretty useful for imbalances which might arise. If you use things like replaygain then it's pretty manageable to set it once and only once


----------



## Clsmooth391

nopants said:


> It seems pretty useful for imbalances which might arise. If you use things like replaygain then it's pretty manageable to set it once and only once


 
  
 Didn't think but could use my pre-amp to adjust the volume.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

davidsh said:


> Where do you generally range on the pot-meter with your t1 and lambda models?


 

 On my modified T1 and Lambda Signatures: 10-12. Beyond 1 it's definitely too much for me.


----------



## davidsh

Yeah, that's what I'd personally consider fairly loud listening. I'm more like 9-11 most of the time. 12 is cranking it, even for dynamic recordings. Just wanted to hear from some others..


----------



## anetode

The tonality of the 007 is more distinctive, that is to say less neutral, than that of the 009.


----------



## barid

clsmooth391 said:


> Does anyone find the dual volume controls on the KGSS a pain or is it easy to get used to?


 
  
 Minor annoyance but nothing really.  I set it then forget about it and use volume control from foobar.


----------



## ALSO

SR-OMEGA and T2 in mint condition up for auction on Yahoo JP, put in my bids for posterity.


----------



## DefQon

also said:


> SR-OMEGA and T2 in mint condition up for auction on Yahoo JP, put in my bids for posterity.


 
  
 Same here....
  
 EDIT: Oh what I buyee doesn't let you bid on auctions over 300000 yen.....


----------



## ALSO

defqon said:


> Same here


 
 Should we join forces DefQon and develop a strategy to land both?  Anyone else want to join?  Collective global ownership?  Could be a cool new model.


----------



## DefQon

also said:


> Should we join forces DefQon and develop a strategy to land both?  Anyone else want to join?  Collective global ownership?  Could be a cool new model.


 
 Well I always get outbid on the last second due to different time zones on auctions located overseas so I may be out of luck on winning that Omega. Then I have 2 Omega's.


----------



## ALSO

defqon said:


> Well I always get outbid on the last second due to different time zones on auctions located overseas so I may be out of luck on winning that Omega. Then I have 2 Omega's.


 
 Happens to me too when I'm in the US; I wake up to find I've been out bid by a few pennies.  But I've also had my share of successes on ヤフオク and most items have been delivered in great shape.


----------



## ALSO

defqon said:


> Well I always get outbid on the last second due to different time zones on auctions located overseas so I may be out of luck on winning that Omega. Then I have 2 Omega's.


 
  


defqon said:


> Well I always get outbid on the last second due to different time zones on auctions located overseas so I may be out of luck on winning that Omega. Then I have 2 Omega's.


 
 Oh, and you already have a pair, so the rich would get richer even as they got poorer.


----------



## DefQon

also said:


> Oh, and you already have a pair, so the rich would get richer even as they got poorer.


 
 Well technically I did own a pair which was sold awhile ago but they are mine in spirit and I can revisit them whenever I want, since I sold them to the friend that got me the can in the first place.
  
 The one currently on YJ looks even mintier than mine. 
  
 I remember you owning the HE-500 or something before having any stats and look at you now, a high roller with some 009/007 bling, you're probably the one snagging all the Lambda/vintage amp deals on YJ from under my nose.


----------



## 3X0

Wow, if I'm not misreading the serial number is 457.
  
 Whatever. One pair of Omegas and the little 323S-that-could is enough for me.


----------



## ALSO

defqon said:


> Well technically I did own a pair which was sold awhile ago but they are mine in spirit and I can revisit them whenever I want, since I sold them to the friend that got me the can in the first place.
> 
> The one currently on YJ looks even mintier than mine.
> 
> I remember you owning the HE-500 or something before having any stats and look at you now, a high roller with some 009/007 bling, you're probably the one snagging all the Lambda/vintage amp deals on YJ from under my nose.


 
 You are both funny and kind to remember my humble origins; I never expected to travel this far.  But you are among the persuasive forces on this site to pushed me into this.  I have snagged a few vintage Lambdas and amps from YJ but remember I am coming to this much later than most of you here, so I am catching up.  I am trying to hear everything I can while I still can.  I never knew the subtle shades and differences in sound could be so moving, but they are and it's an incredible experience.  I am grateful for the generosity on this site.  I won't accumulate forever, and once I've had my fill and heard a wide range, I'll return much of it to the community.  My work is in visual culture, so the discovery of audio in this way has been altering.


----------



## DefQon

also said:


> You are both funny and kind to remember my humble origins; I never expected to travel this far.  But you are among the persuasive forces on this site to pushed me into this.  I have snagged a few vintage Lambdas and amps from YJ but remember I am coming to this much later than most of you here, so I am catching up.  I am trying to hear everything I can while I still can.  I never knew the subtle shades and differences in sound could be so moving, but they are and it's an incredible experience.  I am grateful for the generosity on this site.  I won't accumulate forever, and once I've had my fill and heard a wide range, I'll return much of it to the community.  My work is in visual culture, so the discovery of audio in this way has been altering.


 
 Glad to hear my persuasive influences has worked on a number of Stax owners on these boards.


----------



## loligagger

Wish I could justify bidding on that beautiful omega, but when I just got my 009s in last week it's just not possible.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

davidsh said:


> Yeah, that's what I'd personally consider fairly loud listening. I'm more like 9-11 most of the time. 12 is cranking it, even for dynamic recordings. Just wanted to hear from some others..


 
 I have some recordings where I can't go over 11 and normal level is 9-10. For the rest of my collection 10-12 is fine.


----------



## spritzer

Just so it is clear, the markings mean nothing really as they are just a representation of the fixed gain of the amp multiplying the input voltage.


----------



## MacedonianHero

So today I was a very good day indeed. I got to finally hear the mighty T-2. And it was just as I expected --> SPECTACULAR. Very impressive build by GeorgeP (also the builder of my KGSSHV). Truly endgame territory and on his PWD2, the sounds I heard from my newly purchased SR-007 MK1s was simply breath taking!
  
 So I've settled down for the evening with my new headphones and my KGSSHV and I've gotta say these are very good headphones. For a few years I've only heard the 007MK1 & MK2s on Stax amps and while good, I never felt they were worth the investment. Then I got to hear George's SR007 MK1s on my (now sold) KGSS and I was amazed with what I was hearing. So the bug was planted so to speak.
  
 They won't be supplanting my SR-009s as king of the heap, but they are definitely top notch cans and I'm pretty happy to have them in the stable. I'm also very impressed with my KGSSHV as both my SR-009s and SR-007Mk1s sound so darn good. I think they'd sound even better with this amp if not for my listening session early today with the venerable T-2.


----------



## negura

macedonianhero said:


> So today I was a very good day indeed. I got to finally hear the mighty T-2. And it was just as I expected --> SPECTACULAR. Very impressive build by GeorgeP (also the builder of my KGSSHV). Truly endgame territory and on his PWD2, the sounds I heard from my newly purchased SR-007 MK1s was simply breath taking!
> 
> So I've settled down for the evening with my new headphones and my KGSSHV and I've gotta say these are very good headphones. For a few years I've only heard the 007MK1 & MK2s on Stax amps and while good, I never felt they were worth the investment. Then I got to hear George's SR007 MK1s on my (now sold) KGSS and I was amazed with what I was hearing. So the bug was planted so to speak.
> 
> They won't be supplanting my SR-009s as king of the heap, but they are definitely top notch cans and I'm pretty happy to have them in the stable. I'm also very impressed with my KGSSHV as both my SR-009s and SR-007Mk1s sound so darn good. I think they'd sound even better with this amp if not for my listening session early today with the venerable T-2.


 
  
 Good stuff! I wonder if this is where you start to rate the 007MKIs above arguably all dynamics, as some of us do.


----------



## rawrster

That's a good day indeed. The T2 is definitely on my must hear list although I'll never own one


----------



## MacedonianHero

negura said:


> Good stuff! I wonder if this is where you start to rate the 007MKIs above arguably all dynamics, as some of us do.


 
 Too early to tell. Gonna be a fun 2 weeks off for the holidays though trying to figure that out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


rawrster said:


> That's a good day indeed. The T2 is definitely on my must hear list although I'll never own one


 
 Except for the tonne of snow we got yesterday, it would have been a perfect weekend. But the T-2 is truly an experience.


----------



## negura

Sounds like man cave time and a good excuse that snow is.


----------



## DefQon

negura said:


> Sounds like man cave time and a good excuse that snow is.


 
 Haha was thinking the same thing.


----------



## MacedonianHero

negura said:


> Sounds like man cave time and a good excuse that snow is.


 
 Sadly, just a man cave (w/ my home theatre) after 8pm...kids bed time.  During the day, it's a family room with toys, etc...


----------



## DefQon

Now all you need is the T2, BHSE, KGSSHV and the Megatron all in one room.


----------



## MacedonianHero

defqon said:


> Now all you need is the T2, BHSE, KGSSHV and the Megatron all in one room.


 
  
 And a new addition to the home. I'm a simple man, I'd be happy with just the T2.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

macedonianhero said:


> And a new addition to the home. I'm a simple man, I'd be happy with just the T2.



Right? Why keep anything else around once you have the best there is...speaking of the megatron, i really need to get around to building mine


----------



## MacedonianHero

souprknowva said:


> Right? Why keep anything else around once you have the best there is...speaking of the megatron,* i really need to get around to building mine*


 
 Excellent! Looking forward to it!


----------



## georgep

macedonianhero said:


> And a new addition to the home. I'm a simple man, I'd be happy with just the T2.


 
  
  
 Hmm.. so I have you reconsidering tubes?


----------



## MacedonianHero

georgep said:


> Hmm.. so I have you reconsidering tubes?


 
 Yes, yes you did!


----------



## 2Erly

Stax T2 for sale on YJ incase anyone is interested 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k172471947


----------



## milosz

2erly said:


> Stax T2 for sale on YJ incase anyone is interested
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Everyone here is INTERESTED of course!  Hahaha.  But not many can afford it, and even some that could are put off by the complexity of dealing with an auction in Japan- money, language, shipping-  _danger Will Robinson!_


----------



## DefQon

And some prick keeps outbidding me, you want to play the bidding game? Bring it on!


----------



## davidsh

Asking on the behalf of someone.. Are the Stax amps from Japan easy to convert to 230v? Some of the amps that don't require soldering for the conversion? There is of course the srm-252 with its wall wart but what about other amps? Thank you..


----------



## ALSO

Not me yet, but I'll make one last feeble run at the Omegas.


----------



## padam

davidsh said:


> Asking on the behalf of someone.. Are the Stax amps from Japan easy to convert to 230v? Some of the amps that don't require soldering for the conversion? There is of course the srm-252 with its wall wart but what about other amps? Thank you..


 
  
 When you see a 110V, 240V, etc. and a pointer next to it on the back side, that means that it is equipped with a jumper block. So no soldering required.
 Sometimes all the voltages are written on the back, which is also an indication that there is an inside jumper for changing.
  
 All of the newer amps (like SRM-323) need soldering, this is more common in the older versions (like SRM-T1), but not on all of them.


----------



## davidsh

^Thank you. It seems my T1 has either no or internal jumpers. It does say 100V;117V;220V:240V on the back so I guess it must have jumpers on the inside. The soldering is quite simple from what I have heard, right?


----------



## padam

Yes, difficult to tell if there is a jumper inside or not, but on the older amps soldering is definitely easier than on the newest ones (but I think that even the newer ones are not that challenging either).


----------



## DefQon

Sometimes they are on the bottom as well, pop off the bottom panel and then you're able to tell. Most evidently on some of the SRM1 MK2/Pro units I've had.
  
 The newer Stax amps (i.e. 323S and above) from Japan usually have two wires cut off from the transformer taps to the jump board, you have to re-solder a new wire from the multi-tap on the primary to the jumper board and then re-solder the jumpers to your preferred AC voltage.


----------



## mangler

Hey guys, I may have an opportunity to grab a pair of sr-007mk2.5 for ~$1000. The catch is that there is a channel imbalance, where the left side is ~ 25% louder, but I can adjust for this on my DAC. So, in your opinion, what's the dumber decision: 1) knowingly buy unbalanced headphones, or 2) miss the chance to get some O2s for $1000?

Right now I think I'll probably buy them, especially since I could never afford them new and getting them used would be still be a bit of a struggle. Still, I'm curious to hear what you stax masters think.

I should probably mention that I've actually been using them for about a week and quite enjoy them even though I know (and can hear) they don't have all the juice they crave.


----------



## negura

It may be more than just an imbalance in dBs. 1000 is a lot for defective headphones.... Another option is to find how much changing a driver costs.


----------



## dukeskd

Once there is imbalance, it can only get worse..


----------



## paradoxper

macedonianhero said:


> So today I was a very good day indeed. I got to finally hear the mighty T-2. And it was just as I expected --> SPECTACULAR. Very impressive build by GeorgeP (also the builder of my KGSSHV). Truly endgame territory and on his PWD2, the sounds I heard from my newly purchased SR-007 MK1s was simply breath taking!


 
 Is George up for commissioned builds? I know of one dude who is having one built, which is running him $10k+, just curious if we'll ever have somebody down to do builds.


----------



## MacedonianHero

paradoxper said:


> Is George up for commissioned builds? I know of one dude who is having one built, which is running him $10k+, just curious if we'll ever have somebody down to do builds.


 
 George has a very good day job. You might want to ask him though.


----------



## mangler

negura said:


> It may be more than just an imbalance in dBs. 1000 is a lot for defective headphones.... Another option is to find how much changing a driver costs.




I asked Yama, and they quoted me $1600, which is NOT going to happen. 
I guess I was thinking I could live with rebalancing everything using my DAC, but if this is a sign that things are only going to get worse ill certainly pass on these. 
For some reason I was also under the impression that channel imbalances aren't terribly uncommon in electrostats, and that maybe this shouldn't be a deal breaker if the price is right. From your responses it sounds like that's not the case, and I don't want to dump a bunch of cash into something that is headed towards failure, so maybe I'll try to be smart and skip these 

Thanks for your responses too...you probably saved me from doing something hastily and stupid. Too bad though, because I really like these, but maybe I'll use this opportunity to try out some lambdas (this was my first stax experience, and I think I'm falling for the stat presentation  )


----------



## 3X0

dukeskd said:


> Once there is imbalance, it can only get worse..


 
  
 Not true. Some imbalance is temporary.
  
  
  
 I'd wait for spritzer to chime in.


----------



## dukeskd

3x0 said:


> Not true. Some imbalance is temporary.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd wait for spritzer to chime in.


 

 It is worth mentioning the recent SR-009s imbalance debacles (imbalances that were solved simply by shipping on an airplane) and parasitic charge. In the case of parasitic charges, a few weeks/days of not using the headphone will solve imbalance once charge is gone. Humidity is also another factor that could damage drivers, however putting the phones in ziploc bag for a number of weeks could correct the problem.
  
 Spending $1000 on a headphone that has confirmed channel imbalance is not a wise investment as it could be permanent.


----------



## DefQon

From my experience with the pairs of Lambdas that I've owned that suffered imbalance issues, most of them got worse to the point where it would distort on the low end spectrum of sound, any bass will cause distortion. Yamas is also a rip off and unreliable with zilch communication.

Considering used MK1's do pop up from time to time for $1.6-1.8k I'd rather that option then buying an imbalanced MK2.5 that could get worse and eventually you lose some $ when you sell it off. Your best luck is either check there is no debris in the driver by opening them up or looking for a puncture in the dust filter or you can leave them playing for 4 months straight continuously, that is how long it took one of the imbalanced normal bias Lambdas to fix itself and the only one that did fix itself.


----------



## dukeskd

defqon said:


> From my experience with the pairs of Lambdas that I've owned that suffered imbalance issues, most of them got worse to the point where it would distort on the low end spectrum of sound, any bass will cause distortion. Yamas is also a rip off and unreliable with zilch communication


 
 The issues you had with the Lambdas sound like the Mylar diaphragm was faulty and that is definitely not solvable. Yamas would only charge you an arm and a leg to replace them drivers.


----------



## DefQon

I don't know if it was the mylar tension loosening or the parasitic charge but one of them was a brand new 407 out of the box 2 weeks straight into it bam imbalance, returned them got a replacement and sold it off.


----------



## 3X0

dukeskd said:


> The issues you had with the Lambdas sound like the Mylar diaphragm was faulty and that is definitely not solvable. Yamas would only charge you an arm and a leg to replace them drivers.


 
 I believe some SR-009s also reported distortion in the bass, and were returned without distortion/imbalance with the same serial number.


----------



## DefQon

3x0 said:


> I believe some SR-009s also reported distortion in the bass, and were returned without distortion/imbalance with the same serial number.




Indeed this is also what I've also read from that thread also and it almost sounds like a solution to throw your Stax at the wall should it suffer imbalance problems.


----------



## davidsh

I wouldn't buy any 'stat with imbalance unless it was very, very cheap.


----------



## DefQon

Doesn't your LS have imbalance issues?


----------



## rx79ez08

If anyone got a LS with a problem I will be very interested in buying it from them.
 I got a spare set in good condition that someone gave me, but one of the driver has a very bad hum.


----------



## milosz

I may sell all my dynamic 'phones, amps.....
  
 Haven't listened to my Stax or ESP-950's for a couple of months, trying to give my HD800's, HE6's and LCD-2's some time in playback rotation, as well as spend a little time with a nice 5998 tube I got for my Bottlehead Crack/Speedball amp.
  
 Went back to my T-1 / Lambda Pro Signatures today, and, gee, I really am just about ready to sell my HD800s, HE6's, LCD-2's, the Crack, the Beta-22, the CK3, the M3, the Little Dot Mk III, the Audio-Gd FUN and NFB-10es, etc.   OK, so maybe I'll keep the Crack and my 600 ohm Beyer DT880's- just to have ONE set of dynamics and because I like the Bottlehead amp.
  
 I'm serious about this.  I really am thinking of leaving dynamics behind.  My ESP-950's, Lambda Signatures, and SR-007 Mk I's, yes, keep those.  The T1 and the soon-to-be finished DIY T-2, yes, keep those too.
  
 HATE TO DO IT because it's a lot of gear and I built a shelf for it all - a silly reason, I know, but that's how it is with me.  Also, I kind of hate to sell the DIY amps, part of me is in those things.  But the more I listen to these Lambdas and the more I think about how the HD800's treble peak hurts my ears- yes actual pain, I have a bit of hyperacusis right where their peak is - the more I wonder _"WHY??" _


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

milosz said:


> I may sell all my dynamic 'phones, amps.....
> 
> Haven't listened to my Stax or ESP-950's for a couple of months, trying to give my HD800's, HE6's and LCD-2's some time in playback rotation, as well as spend a little time with a nice 5998 tube I got for my Bottlehead Crack/Speedball amp.
> 
> ...


 

 It's a good decision! Don't burden yourself with stuff you don't like anymore.


----------



## wink

Give 'em all to me...!


----------



## davidsh

defqon said:


> Doesn't your LS have imbalance issues?



Nah, just sizzling. Have heard some slight sizzling when the t1 warms up with my sigma. It seems illogical. Mostly the sizzling sound starts after half an hour with my LS. Will try to open it up today (the LS). Perhaps also the sigma if I find it to be easy.


----------



## davidsh

Can't even get the damn thing out of the housing! 

EDIT: Got it out, yet have now idea what to do now.. No wonder it was stuck, that black gooey stuff from the pads made it stick quite a lot.


----------



## davidsh

Help


----------



## Andrasdesoria

Why dont you open a musem of pre-II WW technology based headphones?


----------



## spritzer

The imbalance can be cause by a number of things, anything from the parasitic charge issue to cable or driver damage.  The parasitic charge is the most puzzling of these and quite hard to predict and/or fix.  I'm currently running some tests to both try to make it appear and to get rid of it.  There is also a circuit we've been working on which could help dissipate the unwanted charge rapidly but to test it, I need sets which have the issue.
  
 If anybody has any sets with imbalance issues then I'd love to buy them.  Best if they have diaphragms which I can remove and measure (i.e. not Lambdas bar the last version).


----------



## s1rrah

Just today got one of the tiny, SRM-252S amps in for use with a Koss EsP950 headphone ... currently listening to the amp with my SR-307's and being fed by a little Cowon J3 (cause I'm at work and my main source gear  is at home) ...
  
 And I gotta say ... humble amp and all, ultra affordable ... but even with the Cowon as a source, it is unbelievably good sounding. More clear/transparent than the T1W amp I recently sold (which sounded sort of dull compared to the 252S). Hard to believe how good it sounds....
  
 Crazy...


----------



## milosz

KGSSHV?
  
 A question for those who have heard both the KGSSHV  and the DIY T-2

How does the sound of the KGSSHV compare to the DIY T-2 on the SR-007 Mk1 -  ?
  
  
 Heres a more general KGSSHV question

How does the KGSSHV sound on ordinary pro-bias Lambdas ? Does it sound WAY better than (for example) a T1, or just a BIT better, or maybe even not that much audible difference driving a Lambda over a T1?  (What I'm getting at here is - is the improvement from the KGSSHV only  audible on SR-007's?


----------



## preproman

milosz said:


> KGSSHV?
> 
> A question for those who have heard both the KGSSHV  and the DIY T-2
> 
> ...


 
  
 Check in the BHSE thread..


----------



## chinsettawong

To my ears, between KGSSHV and DIY T2, DIY T2 is definitely a clear winner. 

Wachara C.


----------



## wink

By about _*that*_ much........


----------



## glorkaglickflic

I have just received my Stax 507s.  I've read that the 323S is considered the best of the Stax amps.  However, I've read that a modified 727II is considered a better amp than the 323S.  I'm not very handy, so if I would have a 727II modified, I wouldn't know where to go for this.  So, if I had a choice between the 323S and the unmodified 727II, would the 323S be a better choice?  I'm looking for a solid state amp.  In what way would a modified 727II be superior to the 323S?
  
 Since I've read that the 507 is bright and the 323S is clean and neutral, I assume that I would need to EQ the 507 to some extent.
  
 Can anyone recommend any EQ software programs for a Mac?


----------



## davidsh

I guess you are aware of the general consensus regarding the current Stax 'phone line-up regarding sound quality?


----------



## Peter_S

davidsh said:


> I guess you are aware of the general consensus regarding the current Stax 'phone line-up regarding sound quality?


 

 David - is there a good summary of the general consensus?  You know, your comment made me think it would be cool to set up a survey monkey poll where all models are listed and key inherent qualities rated on a 0-10 scale, and summarize what the consensus is.  Qualities such as: bass, midrange, treble, transparency, speed, imaging, soundstage, overall rating.  If there was interest by members, I'd be happy to set that up.  I understand that these qualities can change with the appropriate amplification, but the survey results would still be interesting...


----------



## davidsh

The consensus is that 407 and 507 doesn't sound better than 307. 507 is the brightest and most v-shaped due to the real leather pads. 307 doesn't necessarily sound better than 207, yet they sound different. Correct me if I'm wrong. All of them are considered bright


----------



## tdogzthmn

I love my 507 and don't find it to be bright or V-Shaped at all.  It manages to have excellent detail and clearly presents all the material in a recording without sounding unnatural where my HD800 always sounded too bright for my taste.  The bass is also very satisfactory for me and I was surprised by how well the 507 hits.  I am driving them mostly through an SRD-7 connected to my upgraded Bottelhead SEX amp.  I don't have a lot of experience with other STAX headphones but for me the SR507 + Bottlehead amp gives me all I need!


----------



## DefQon

Also some users have reported 407 and 507 sharing the same driver, just slap leather pads onto the 407 and you have a 507. I wouldn't exactly call the 507 bright more like cold and lifeless on some recordings. Some of the more experienced Stax owners (including myself) that have heard or owned the entire new Lambda lineup prefer the 207's to its more expensive brethrens.


----------



## MacedonianHero

milosz said:


> KGSSHV?
> 
> A question for those who have heard both the KGSSHV  and the DIY T-2
> 
> ...


 
  
 Funny you should ask...I got to A-B my new SR-007MK1s on a friend's DIY T-2 this past Sunday and I had my KGSSHV right next to it (he actually built both amps...quite the versatile fellow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). The T2 is spectacular and the best I've heard them; that said, the KGSSHV is still an awesome choice and not too far behind. If you can snag a T2, go for it, but if you can't; there is certainly no reason to feel bad about the KGSSHV as it can hold its own.


----------



## DefQon

I haven't heard a T2 but I have heard a KGSSHV as well as currently building my own and a BHSE. The KGSSHV isn't far off behind a BHSE and areas where the BHSE do shine with difficult to drive stats is the bass it is more controlled and tight, coherent with the rest of the sound spectrum, the KGSSHV ain't no slouch hell no. Detail retrieval between the BHSE and KGSSHV is about the same fed from the same source (this could be due to the transducer used which has a bigger impact). But do remember a fully diy'd KGSSHV would be around $2-3k (including or excluding parts at hand and use of esoteric/boutique components), less than that of a BHSE or KGBH. A diy T2 runs over $10k.


----------



## glorkaglickflic

defqon said:


> Also some users have reported 407 and 507 sharing the same driver, just slap leather pads onto the 407 and you have a 507. I wouldn't exactly call the 507 bright more like cold and lifeless on some recordings. Some of the more experienced Stax owners (including myself) that have heard or owned the entire new Lambda lineup prefer the 207's to its more expensive brethrens.


 
 Wouldn't EQing the 507 solve some of the cold and lifeless audio on some recordings?  That's why I asked what EQ software would be recommended for this.


----------



## DefQon

glorkaglickflic said:


> Wouldn't EQing the 507 solve some of the cold and lifeless audio on some recordings?  That's why I asked what EQ software would be recommended for this.


 
 I don't EQ (unless its portable gear) so sorry I can't be of any help.
  
 Why not just skip out the 507 and get yourself something better? Peace of mind.


----------



## s1rrah

glorkaglickflic said:


> Wouldn't EQing the 507 solve some of the cold and lifeless audio on some recordings?  That's why I asked what EQ software would be recommended for this.


 
  
 I don't find the 307's cold or lifeless ... they are somewhat flat sounding to me, actually. Certainly not bright in the least, though. I do find them very favorably responsive to just the slightest bit of uptick in the bass via Foobars EQ, however.  Also, I using them with a somewhat notoriously musical/vinyl-like DAC, a MHDT Labs Stockholm tube buffered DAC (it's also a NOS/R2R design) ... which might be favorably impacting the supposed claims of "brightness" in the most recent Lambdas. I'm also hearing none of the discussed "etch" (which I did here when using an older SRM-T1W amp but not now and with the SRM-252S).


----------



## tdogzthmn

glorkaglickflic said:


> Wouldn't EQing the 507 solve some of the cold and lifeless audio on some recordings?  That's why I asked what EQ software would be recommended for this.


 
  
 I like the fact that the 507 portray the source material in an unbiased manner and does not overcome the nuances and tone of a recording.  A similar analogy is preferring the more neutral sound of HD600 over the HD650.  I would venture to also say that the tube amp I use adds some "life" to the music resulting in a balanced but still very lively sound.  Bottom line is that my music sounds more compelling than it had before.


----------



## mangler

Couple of quick questions:

1) Does it matter if you plug your stax in before you turn on the amp vs plugging them in after the amp is already on? 

2) What is it about the 207 you prefer over the 407/507?

3) If you had to make a comparison, which (ortho)dynamics do the 207 and 407/507 most resemble?

4) Would you be able to consider either the 207 or 507 as mellow/laid back, especially when paired with a tube amp?


----------



## DefQon

mangler said:


> Couple of quick questions:
> 
> 1) Does it matter if you plug your stax in before you turn on the amp vs plugging them in after the amp is already on?
> 
> ...


 
 1. No
 2. Sounds more neutral.
 3. None, possibly HD800 comes close in sound sig but still a far cry difference.
 4. No


----------



## davidsh

I found EQ'ing my lambda sig with a low bass boost and shaving off some of the upper mids and lowering the treble slightly made for a very musical and balanced presentation.


----------



## milosz

Thanks for the replies re:  DIY T-2  compared to KGSSHV.  Most informative.


----------



## glorkaglickflic

davidsh said:


> I found EQ'ing my lambda sig with a low bass boost and shaving off some of the upper mids and lowering the treble slightly made for a very musical and balanced presentation.


 
 What EQ program do you use?  Is it better to have 31 band EQ or a Parametric EQ?  Is it software or hardware?  Do you have a Mac or PC?  Do you use Audio Hijack (its now known as Audio Hijack Pro)?


----------



## davidsh

PC, electriQ, software EQ


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Some other nice plugin eqs for your comp are made by izotope, PSP, and if you can afford them Waves makes some of the best quality plugins, their linear phase eq is my go to for recording. If your on Mac you can use fidelia music player to drop them in the audio chain easily


----------



## davidsh

How do the Stax adapter boxes work? What about bias voltage, where does that come from?


----------



## Seele01

okay guys, real stuff going on
  
 there is an SR omega & SRM T2 on sale on yahoo auction japan atm.
  
 http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k172471947
  
 http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f129689526
  
 get your christmas right !


----------



## padam

seele01 said:


> okay guys, real stuff going on
> 
> there is an SR omega & SRM T2 on sale on yahoo auction japan atm.
> 
> ...


 
 It was already linked...


----------



## Seele01

oups, my bad, was too excited


----------



## jcx

for US buyers who do people use for ebayjapan middlemen/reshippers - buyee, sendico, any better with such large value items, shipping insurance, ect.
  
 and what would be a good snipe price - just  askn


----------



## padam

jcx said:


> for US buyers who do people use for ebayjapan middlemen/reshippers - buyee, sendico, any better with such large value items, shipping insurance, ect.
> 
> and what would be a good snipe price - just  askn


 
 you can use whatever you like, so far no negative experiences have been reported, some are probably more responsive than others and there may be little differences in terms of fees
  
 you will see once it has ended - just sayin'


----------



## DefQon

I recommend buyee. No hassles and dramas.


----------



## arnaud

The yen is so devaluated against the euro, this T2 is like a bargain in Europe at the current price (380,000 so 2,700 Euro or so).
I wouldn't be surprised if more than half these stax auctions in Japan end up with shipment if the goods overseas!


----------



## DefQon

Given the way YJ auctions work especially with popular, esoteric or rare electronics that T2 will sell for a lot more.


----------



## davidsh

Care to explain how the energiser/adapter units work without a bias supply? Takes speaker signal, ramp up the voltage with a transformer and then... What?


----------



## n3rdling

They do have a bias supply


----------



## davidsh

n3rdling said:


> They do have a bias supply


 
 Yeah.. But where from?


----------



## kevin gilmore

most plug into the wall. schematics are available.

the really old koss boxes build up voltage from the audio signal


----------



## davidsh

kevin gilmore said:


> most plug into the wall. schematics are available.
> 
> the really old koss boxes build up voltage from the audio signal


 
 Ohh from the audio signal. That cannot be too good for the sound quality, just assumed one wouldn't do that sort of stuff. I am specifically thinking about the srd-6 adapter, which only need to be connected to an amp via 4 wires.
 Whatever, I do have a dedicated amp after all.. But thank you anyway, always interested in learning more.


----------



## DefQon

Bada-boom....


----------



## bearFNF

bada-big-boom...


----------



## kevin gilmore

srd6 has a wall plug. same schematic roughly as all of them. high impedance voltage multiplier.


----------



## davidsh

My srd6 has no wall plug. You might be mistaken on that one?


----------



## kevin gilmore

srd6-sb is self bias generation, no ac power cord, original version has power cord.


----------



## davidsh

Generated from the audio signal? Quite neat, yet it can't be too good for sound quality.


----------



## spritzer

It's quite simple really and with next to no degradation to the signal.  A high ratio transformer is connected to both secondaries on the audio transformers which in turn drives a 7 fold voltage multiplier limited at the input to 82V through a transient suppressor.


----------



## edstrelow

davidsh said:


> Generated from the audio signal? Quite neat, yet it can't be too good for sound quality.


 
 Possibly but it avoids issues with ac line  noise.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

davidsh said:


> Generated from the audio signal? Quite neat, yet it can't be too good for sound quality.


 
 I've used the 7sb for years, and it sounds quite excellent.  It scales with whatever amp you pair it with.


----------



## bearFNF

keithpgdrb said:


> I've used the 7sb for years, and it sounds quite excellent.  It scales with whatever amp you pair it with.



Same here. Been using it that way since it was new...198x...


----------



## NoPants

I think spritzer has boards available for a standalone bias supply, so you can always go boutique and run lumdahl step-ups


----------



## kevin gilmore

you could just buy 64 x 9 volt batteries and wire them in series.
 would last forever. (shelf life of alkaline about 15 years)


----------



## rx79ez08

64 x 9 volt battery is going to cost a fortune....


----------



## NoPants

but it's the cleanest supply for the cleanest headphones


----------



## kevin gilmore

about $70 for 64 batteries
 not so bad.


----------



## tdogzthmn

My SRD-7 SB only has a single grey cord coming our the back with terminates into four banana plugs in addition to the four binding posts on the rear of the unit.  I agree with the others about the unit scaling very well.  The background is perfectly black and the sound from both my speaker amps is lovely.  I have no desire to try the other STAX amps.


----------



## rx79ez08

Where do you get your battery?
9v battery are like a few bucks each down under.
Finally understand what signal is being fed into the headphones.... 
It is 580vdc for bias, then small signal audio signal on top of it right?


----------



## davidsh

rx79ez08 said:


> Where do you get your battery?
> 9v battery are like a few bucks each down under.
> Finally understand what signal is being fed into the headphones....
> It is 580vdc for bias,* then small signal audio signal on top of it right?*


 
 Just some variable signal between 0 and some 300-700 volts depending on the amp... Much like normal amps, yet higher voltage.


----------



## milosz

davidsh said:


> Care to explain how the energiser/adapter units work without a bias supply? Takes speaker signal, ramp up the voltage with a transformer and then... What?


 
 The stax adaptor plugs into the wall.  It converts AC current from the wall to DC 580 volts for the bias. So it does not work _without_ a bias supply.  It *IS* a bias supply.
  
 The stax adaptor also connects to a speaker amplifier.  The audio voltage from the amplifier is put through a step-up transformer that increases the voltage of the audio signal enough to drive the electrostatic headphones.
  
 Also, the transformer roughly presents an 8 ohm load to your amplifier and matches it's output to the proper impedance to drive the headphones.
  
 In the old days, Koss made some energizers which could convert some of the audio power fed into them into bias, in addition to coupling the audio from the amplifier to the electrostatic headphones, but this is not an ideal way to go.  It's better to convert AC from the power line into the DC bias-  it is more stable, etc.  Maybe some early Stax energizers developed bias from the audio input too, I do not know.  The most commonly seen Stax adapter-  SRD-7 - uses the power line to produce the bias voltage.


----------



## milosz

kevin gilmore said:


> about $70 for 64 batteries
> not so bad.


 
 Yeah, but where do I buy the teflon-jacketed, oxygen-free silver 9 volt battery clips?


----------



## SquireC

tdogzthmn said:


> My SRD-7 SB only has a single grey cord coming our the back with terminates into four banana plugs in addition to the four binding posts on the rear of the unit.  I agree with the others about the unit scaling very well.  The background is perfectly black and the sound from both my speaker amps is lovely.  I have no desire to try the other STAX amps.


 

 I'm with *tdogzthmn *on this.7-SB with a good power amp sounds as good, sometimes better, than a Stax amp like the T1. Pity I can't get a new 7-SB anywhere.


----------



## kevin gilmore

milosz said:


> Yeah, but where do I buy the teflon-jacketed, oxygen-free silver 9 volt battery clips?


 

 silly person...
  
 you make them.
  
 preferably on a 3 axis NC mill. you have one right?
  
 oxygen free silver... not for long.


----------



## wink

Wallmart or Amazon may have them on special soon with NiMH batteries thrown in for free.
  
 Happy waiting................
  
 Actually, I like phosphor bronze battery clips more than silver.


----------



## milosz

kevin gilmore said:


> silly person...
> 
> you make them.
> 
> ...


 
 I do, but it's currently being rewired with Cardas cable and re-capped with Black Gates....
  
 The oxygen free silver is no problem, I use high resolution oxygen free air in my listening room.


----------



## DefQon

squirec said:


> I'm with *tdogzthmn* on this.7-SB with a good power amp sounds as good, sometimes better, than a Stax amp like the T1. Pity I can't get a new 7-SB anywhere.




+1 I have the last gen of the adaptor lineup the srd-7sb mk2 and from a select few integrated amps I preferred it over the Stax amps.


----------



## wink

> Quote:milosz
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I see 2 major problems here:-
 1/ You should be using Zu cables instead of Cardas, and Auricaps instead of Black Gates.
 2/ You need titanium instead of silver cables. Beryllium is better still. The high resolution oxygen free air is problematic for continuance of life. It is strongly suggested that sulfur dioxide is substituted.
 Listening to headphones is preferably conducted in a small intimate cubicle where you are not distracted form the sonic experience, and do not offend others with your insular behaviour.


----------



## dukeskd

You haven't had a great cable unless its radioactive to the touch (i.e., burn)*. That is when you know your sound is directly equal to sonic bliss and the quite present sapphire aura surrounding your head as you're listening.
  
 Nothing can come close to it, not even the legendary Orpheus.
  
  
  
  
*Of course my life expectancy is quite degraded, but who cares when you have this level of sonic bliss.


----------



## DefQon

Black Gate caps are overrated. Funny how they use to cost less than a few dollars for a pop, now whenever they do pop up on fleabay, expect to pay more than $30 for a low rating NX.


----------



## glorkaglickflic

I have the Stax SR-507s and will get the Stax SRM-323 S.  I'm NEW at all this.  I have a late 2012 IMac 27 so will be using the "headphone out."
  
 1.  Do I keep the unit on all the time or do I shut it off at the end of the day when I'm finished?
  
 2.  Should I keep the volume low on my IMac when turning on the unit or would that not make a difference?
  
 3.  Do I connect the RCA jacks to the left (white)  and right (red) input terminals?
  
 4.  Can I keep the ear speakers continually plugged into the unit?
  
 5.  If I have a damp head, can I be electrocuted when putting on the ear speakers connected to a live unit?
  
 I plan on getting a DAC at a later time.
  
  
 Please let me know if if would be more advantageous to post this in another section.
  
  
  
 Any help would be APPRECIATED.


----------



## davidsh

There's a thread dedicated to entry level Stax


----------



## jcx

results are in: Omega MkI are worth 2x a new 009, nearly 4x a new MkII (PriceJapan)
  
 and SRM-T2 now go for US$15K - not too bad for an amp that ~"has some audible hum, but normal..."


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

jcx said:


> results are in: Omega MkI are worth 2x a new 009, nearly 4x a new MkII (PriceJapan)
> 
> and SRM-T2 now go for US$15K - not too bad for an amp that ~"has some audible hum, but normal..."


 

 That seems totally nuts to me!


----------



## graben

http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k172471947
  
 I can't believe it went for so much! I was watching this auction since it first appeared. Wow


----------



## SquireC

defqon said:


> +1 I have the last gen of the adaptor lineup the srd-7sb mk2 and from a select few integrated amps I preferred it over the Stax amps.


 

 My power amp, a British made valve amp uses 4 x EL34 valves .........just like the T2 ........ perhaps that's why the SRD7 SB mk 2 I have sounds so good?


----------



## spritzer

I would guess not as the tubes are the smallest of factors in this equation.


----------



## 3X0

jcx said:


> results are in: Omega MkI are worth 2x a new 009, nearly 4x a new MkII (PriceJapan)




Well, Omega period. There's not really a Mk2 or follow-up of the original Omega.

To be fair that one was also in superb condition, especially given the presence of the cardboard outer box and the likelihood that the replacement ear pads are supple like few units of this vintage. It also had one of the highest serial numbers I've seen yet.

But nonetheless given the results I might no longer feel too audacious to seek a straight trade for a MDR-R10.


----------



## Solshock

Hey all,
 Unfortunately the headband assembly of my SR207's broke.  The STAXUSA replacement part is $150 dollars, which seems a bit steep for me.  I was wondering if there is any demand for stax SR 207s basic system with amp on ebay or other sites if they were to be sold without the headband assembly?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## DefQon

That Omega sold for a ripped/inflated price and beyond the max bid amount buyee supports. The Japanese are hardcore when it comes to bidding wars.


----------



## dukeskd

defqon said:


> That Omega sold for a ripped/inflated price and beyond the max bid amount buyee supports. The Japaese are hardcore when it comes to bidding wars.


 
 It may have been a Chinese businessman for all we know


----------



## graben

Wow, the same buyer bought both the amp and the headphones. Big spender...


----------



## DefQon

dukeskd said:


> It may have been a Chinese businessman for all we know


 
 Sorry not following....
  


graben said:


> Wow, the same buyer bought both the amp and the headphones. Big spender...


 
 *Looks at location*
  
 It was you wasn't it?


----------



## 3X0

defqon said:


> That Omega sold for a ripped/inflated price and beyond the max bid amount buyee supports. The Japanese are hardcore when it comes to bidding wars.


 
 But the going rate was south of $4k quite a while ago. With their numbers, well-kept units simply have to appreciate. They can't stay that cheap...


----------



## DefQon

Yeh its average going price is bit over 3.5k to 4.5 anything above and its stretching it been for years minus a certain cheap deal. 7-8k for it is just What.


----------



## dukeskd

Gotta agree with Defq. Especially considering the fragile state of the headbands and irreplaceable drivers of the Omega.


----------



## DefQon

dukeskd said:


> fragile state of the headbands and irreplaceable drivers of the Omega.


 
 These two factors are very important, misplace the earspeakers and the headband arc assembly/gimble rods going into the driver housing will break. Once you get imbalance or any sort of other issues with the drivers that require replacing, that's it you're done for, send them off to get replacement drivers and don't be surprised it's fitted with 007 MK2 drivers.
  
 Btw Merry Xmas everybody.


----------



## padam

Just want to add that the reliability issues for the Omega are a bit too mystified. There is only one pair I know of that was broken under the ownership of a head-fi-er. That's it.
 The rest, which had replacement SR007 drivers probably broke much earlier, there were definitely some manufacturing problems with the drivers.
 Treat it "normally" and it is not likely to break and the headband can be replaced if the hinges stay intact.


----------



## arnaud

The drivers might already be that of an O2mk2 for all we know


----------



## DefQon

padam said:


> Just want to add that the reliability issues for the Omega are a bit too mystified. There is only one pair I know of that was broken under the ownership of a head-fi-er. That's it.
> The rest, which had replacement SR007 drivers probably broke much earlier, there were definitely some manufacturing problems with the drivers.
> Treat it "normally" and it is not likely to break and the headband can be replaced if the hinges stay intact.




I've seen a few broken pairs on a German forum don't forget all the broken but fixed pairs wiktor has sold on ebay (count=4).


----------



## padam

defqon said:


> I've seen a few broken pairs on a German forum don't forget all the broken but fixed pairs wiktor has sold on ebay (count=4).


 
 As I wrote Omega2 driver pairs do exist but they were broken several years ago at least.
 So what I meant was buying one with original drives can be considered as a safe buy, until somebody here will report that it just went wrong for no reason.


----------



## DefQon

padam said:


> As I wrote Omega2 driver pairs do exist but they were broken several years ago at least.
> So what I meant was buying one with original drives can be considered as a safe buy, until somebody here will report that it just went wrong for no reason.


 
  
 I was referring to the headband assembly arc that I've seen a fair few broken. From what I heard the O2 MK2 drivers in the Omega 1 housing sounds pretty good, the pair was one of Wiktors pairs.


----------



## NoPants

Isn't the Omega arc assembly similar to the Lambda one? I remember reading that the Omegas fell victim to heat dissipation of the driver, of which it couldn't rid itself.


----------



## padam

nopants said:


> Isn't the Omega arc assembly similar to the Lambda one? I remember reading that the Omegas fell victim to heat dissipation of the driver, of which it couldn't rid itself.


 
 Apart from the custom hinges, it is exactly the same as the Lambda Signature so it is certainly possible to have it repaired (and maybe carefully move the original stickers as well). I have an extra brown headpad as well, if anyone is in need of one.
 I think you are referring to the original T2 with the heat problems or at least I don't know of any Stax headphone having heat problems.


----------



## dukeskd

arnaud said:


> The drivers might already be that of an O2mk2 for all we know


 

 This is a good reason why spending anything over $4000 is a bad idea.


----------



## graben

defqon said:


> Sorry not following....
> 
> *Looks at location*
> 
> It was you wasn't it?


 
 I wish I could afford that.


----------



## 3X0

Nah, the ones that sold were the original deal. You could make out the telltale spokes (not present on SR-007 transplants) in two of the pictures.
  
 I dunno, I think $5k for them is more than fair given time and their numbers. But I'm obviously biased.


----------



## DefQon

Hey I spent 3.5k for mine came with everything except the original box but I got a pair of NOS pads and 2 NOS headbands.


----------



## 3X0

defqon said:


> Hey I spent 3.5k for mine came with everything except the original box but I got a pair of NOS pads and 2 NOS headbands.


 
 You mean the Kiri/Paulownia wood box? If so, I would think that would constitute a substantial component of value...
  
 Didn't you also get it through a friend who had to go out to some place weird to scoop it up? And wasn't your purchase of them ancient history by now?
  
 To be honest it's hard to assess the value of headphones like these since they'll generally go for whatever some buyer's willing to pay at any given point in time. Sales are rare enough that I wouldn't be surprised to see them sell at over that $4500 "sane" value hereon, especially as economies recover and people have more money to burn on toys. Time will tell.


----------



## DefQon

3x0 said:


> You mean the Kiri/Paulownia wood box? If so, I would think that would constitute a substantial component of value...
> 
> Didn't you also get it through a friend who had to go out to some place weird to scoop it up? And wasn't your purchase of them ancient history by now?
> 
> To be honest it's hard to assess the value of headphones like these since they'll generally go for whatever some buyer's willing to pay at any given point in time. Sales are rare enough that I wouldn't be surprised to see them sell at over that $4500 "sane" value hereon, especially as economies recover and people have more money to burn on toys. Time will tell.




Well the original box ain't a big deal because the buyer managed to procure them from else where, NOS pads and NOS headbands go for greater value because they wear out and are no longer to be found anywhere, sourcing these parts are just as rare as the headphones itself. 

Yes I sold them to the person who helped me buy it over in Germany. I still have access to them.

I've had lengthy discussions with Radiohead before through pm's about him trying to obtain a pair, his had talks with MF when she obtained hers and the given going value is around 3.5-4.5. Yes they can go for more than that as well as lower than that, if one the ebay sellers I messaged last year allowed the sale I would've snagged an Omega + T1 deal for $1800 before the seller changed his mind.


----------



## spritzer

padam said:


> Just want to add that the reliability issues for the Omega are a bit too mystified. There is only one pair I know of that was broken under the ownership of a head-fi-er. That's it.
> The rest, which had replacement SR007 drivers probably broke much earlier, there were definitely some manufacturing problems with the drivers.
> Treat it "normally" and it is not likely to break and the headband can be replaced if the hinges stay intact.


 
  
 It really isn't.  I've fixed 11 sets so far, some I could save while others are beyond saving in the sense my repairs would have been so invasive that they weren't SR-Omegas any more.  Not something I'd ever do...
  
 As for the failures, the most common is imbalance which is one of two things - parasitic charge or the coating simply failing.  I've gotten close to the original coating but not been able to recreate it properly.  I need to go high in resistance which leads to slow charging but it's a trade off from small corona issues.  I've also seen one set with ripped mylar and burns which makes them a total write off.  It's actually not that hard to make new diaphragms for them but its a large investment in terms of money and time.  New brass retainers would have to be made in mass and that's not cheap.  I do have the correct film so it would just be a matter off recreating the correct tension and heat treatment then find/design a coating that works. 
  
 The biggest problem is the housing though, that plastic frame can only be repaired to a certain extent and then they are toast.  It's possible to recreate it but it wouldn't be cheap.  No way to 3d print it either given the materials used in those printers.


----------



## 3X0

It would be a pretty huge deal for the collector (s/he who will pay to the northern end of the range) given the matched serial plates. Getting one even with mismatched serials would be an additional expense worth considering.
  
 Conversely pads would be of greater value to the listener rather than the collector (though I'm not sure whether the listener would pay more for pads or the collector for the matching box). At least the original pads don't suffer from serious issues like the HE60/HE90 pads that make replacement absolutely imperative; the main issue with Omega pads is that they become stiff. I believe at least one owner (Birgir?) has had success treating the original pads to make them a bit more supple, albeit nowhere near new.
  
 We know HE90s are worth about 15k because they rot around if they list for much more. We know MDR-R10s are worth in the neighborhood of 5k because much more than that and the same phenomenon occurs. I actually haven't seen enough lasting listings of the Omega to affirm that position with such certainty -- they are much closer to the rarity of the HE90 than R10s, aren't priced out of accessibility like the HE90s, and the existence of the SR-009 makes them less interesting to people who just want sound without fuss.


----------



## shipsupt

I've not been able to run across replacement ear pads for sale since I got my Omegas... I've almost all but given up on finding them.  My current pads feel nice, but I know time will get to them eventually.  When that time comes I'll likely have something custom built to replace them.


----------



## DefQon

3x0 said:


> It would be a pretty huge deal for the collector (s/he who will pay to the northern end of the range) given the matched serial plates. Getting one even with mismatched serials would be an additional expense worth considering.
> 
> Conversely pads would be of greater value to the listener rather than the collector (though I'm not sure whether the listener would pay more for pads or the collector for the matching box). At least the original pads don't suffer from serious issues like the HE60/HE90 pads that make replacement absolutely imperative; the main issue with Omega pads is that they become stiff. I believe at least one owner (Birgir?) has had success treating the original pads to make them a bit more supple, albeit nowhere near new.
> 
> We know HE90s are worth about 15k because they rot around if they list for much more. We know MDR-R10s are worth in the neighborhood of 5k because much more than that and the same phenomenon occurs. I actually haven't seen enough lasting listings of the Omega to affirm that position with such certainty -- they are much closer to the rarity of the HE90 than R10s, aren't priced out of accessibility like the HE90s, and the existence of the SR-009 makes them less interesting to people who just want sound without fuss.




I find the Sony stuff more rarer and harder to come by then the Stax, for instance Larry has reduced the population of the CD3k's because his butchered them all for wooden creations. 

Collectors or listeners, it's hard to say which is more because I know some collectors on this board who are frequent listeners so it's hard to set apart the distinctive groups.

For me I'm bit of both but more so a listener, yes the original box is nice but I'd rather pads and headbands because they affect the functionality of the headphones, it's no good as a complete collectors item with the box and all If the pads or headband are completely mangled.


----------



## rawrster

So recently i've been thinking of selling my dynamic rig or at least my dac/amp to start with. I have a SR007 already and I'm not a huge fan of the SR009. Is there anything else that I should look at?


----------



## bearFNF

Could try some vintage Stax like LS or even LNB


----------



## DefQon

rawrster said:


> So recently i've been thinking of selling my dynamic rig or at least my dac/amp to start with. I have a SR007 already and I'm not a huge fan of the SR009. Is there anything else that I should look at?




Sell off your amp and dynamic headphones and invest in a better amp for the O2's. Upgrading DAC's ain't going to give a huge diffetence.


----------



## preproman

defqon said:


> Sell off your amp and dynamic headphones and invest in a better amp for the O2's. *Upgrading DAC's ain't going to give a huge diffetence.*


 
  
 No but it will give him some what of a different sound.  Going from the Buffalo III to say a Lampi or an AMR, or even a HEX, you might be surprised.


----------



## DefQon

Different sound maybe but not much of an upgrade in terms of how much detail can be revealed which so much hyped emphasis is placed on these days since the dawn of ESS sabre chips.


----------



## cat6man

defqon said:


> Sell off your amp and dynamic headphones and invest in a better amp for the O2's. Upgrading DAC's ain't going to give a huge diffetence.


 
  
 YMMV, but yesterday I had a chance to put a MSB platinum DAC into my system and the change in sound with 009s/BHSE was incredible.
 Much more bass and change in frequency balance with even more detail, smoother more continuous soundstage, totally changed by view of what my 009 and my Nola speakers were capable of.
 And I was happy with my old system!
  
 Too bad it is out of my price range 
  
 DACs can make a huge change in sound, the question is the synergy with the rest of your system and what price range can be considered.
 I'm still trying to get my mind around how incredible the difference/improvement was.


----------



## negura

cat6man said:


> YMMV, but yesterday I had a chance to put a MSB platinum DAC into my system and the change in sound with 009s/BHSE was incredible.
> Much more bass and change in frequency balance with even more detail, smoother more continuous soundstage, totally changed by view of what my 009 and my Nola speakers were capable of.
> And I was happy with my old system!
> 
> ...


 
  
 +1 If the amplifier is transparent enough and there are no other bottlenecks, DAC scaling can result in startling improvements. The "cheaper" Analog is also in a very high SQ ballpark.


----------



## arnaud

cat6man said:


> ...totally changed my view of what my 009 and my Nola speakers were capable of.
> ...DACs can make a huge change in sound, the question is the synergy with the rest of your system and what price range can be considered.




Couldn't agree more, although I haven't heard the msb gear, they have such good reputation wherever you read it. 

In my case, listening to the TotalDac D1 was similar experience and I can't imagine what it would have been with the bhse!

But in the end, just like you, timing is not right to fork out such large sums of money on a DAC... So, I am going to live concerts instead .


----------



## DefQon

Until I hear an MSB or dcs stack I'll stick by what I've said because I haven't heard one to the extent of big enough improvements go by glowing reviews online.


----------



## shipsupt

I can only speak for the dCS gear and say that IMHO the glowing reviews are warranted and that the two most recent source upgrades I've done have had far more impact than I ever anticipated.  
  
 It has changed my opinion on the importance of a good (not necessarily expensive) DAC; it's more important than I used to think.
  
 That said, you are definitely into the diminishing returns world here, where significant increases in price are only giving subtle, but very real, improvements.  Can it be worth it?  Absolutely.  Can you get damn close for a fraction of the price,? Yep.  It gets back to your personal financial situation and just how keen you are to make sure you're getting every last bit out of your system.  There is no right answer of course...


----------



## DefQon

Diminishing returns territory? Absolutely! More so with DAC's than amps.

So what dcs gear you have?


----------



## shipsupt

I only have the Debussy.  I just got it set up before the holidays.  My NAD M51 is sitting right next to it.  I was really hoping that I'd find little to no difference and I could just sell the dCS and go back to enjoying the NAD, but I'm not sure that's going to be possible now...


----------



## NoPants

^ sell me your M51 thanks <3


----------



## rawrster

defqon said:


> Sell off your amp and dynamic headphones and invest in a better amp for the O2's. Upgrading DAC's ain't going to give a huge diffetence.


 
  
 I meant selling off the rig I had my for dynamic rig. I did end up selling my HD800 but still have the DAC I had for my HD800. I use my Buffalo for just the O2. I do realize my amp isn't the best but I feel it's good enough for now. I can't DIY so it's basically buying from the FS and the price for an amp I would want would cost 2-3x what I paid for my SRM717 at the very minimum and I'd rather not pay for that much diminishing returns right now. I was just seeing if there's any other headphones worth getting other than the SR009.


----------



## NoPants

There are many options in the lambda series to try, both new and old.


----------



## DefQon

R10 maybe?


----------



## milosz

I have a pair of Lambda Signatures. They've worked perfectly since I got them.  I replaced the earpads and the headband. They are from 1987 or so, working very well after about 25 years.


----------



## milosz

shipsupt said:


> I've not been able to run across replacement ear pads for sale since I got my Omegas... I've almost all but given up on finding them.  My current pads feel nice, but I know time will get to them eventually.  When that time comes I'll likely have something custom built to replace them.


 
  
 Use a little leather conditioner sparingly on them from time to time, maybe 2~3 times a year.  Lexol is one of the better leather conditioners.  This will help keep them from cracking.


----------



## shipsupt

milosz said:


> Use a little leather conditioner sparingly on them from time to time, maybe 2~3 times a year.  Lexol is one of the better leather conditioners.  This will help keep them from cracking.




Thanks for that! I have some Lexol around, time to break it out.


----------



## spritzer

The earpads are vinyl so that won't do much.  You need something that treats vinyl...


----------



## spkrs01

I had a STAX *itch* a few days before 2014 that had to be _scratched_! Previously, I have only heard the 009 for 15 minutes in October at the Fujiya Headphone Festival.
  
 Anyway to cut the story short.
  
 Today...........
  
 I am the proud owner of a pair of 009 which arrived yesterday
  

  
 a pair of the 007 mk1 received today
  

  
 A Cavalli LL2 due to arrive next Tuesday, and hopefully a VAW TA 8PS tube amp that was highly recommended to me!
  
 Will have great fun in the coming weeks/months comparing the 009/LL2 Vs Abyss/LAu. 
  
  
 Edit:
The 007 mk1 has new cables and new diaphragms plus 6 months warranty left


----------



## dukeskd

spkrs01 said:


> Edit:
> The 007 mk1 has new cables and new diaphragms plus 6 months warranty left


 
  
 So I assume it basically holds mk2.5 drivers as opposed to the original mk1s? Another thing of note that I must add, get a better amp than the LL2.


----------



## preproman

dukeskd said:


> *I must add, get a better amp than the LL2.*


 
  





  How much time have you had with the amp?


----------



## rawrster

spkrs01 said:


> I had a STAX *itch* a few days before 2014 that had to be _scratched_! Previously, I have only heard the 009 for 15 minutes in October at the Fujiya Headphone Festival.
> 
> Anyway to cut the story short.
> 
> ...


 
 Nice! What DAC are you running for all that? You got hit by the Stax bug all at once


----------



## arnaud

preproman said:


> :eek:   How much time have you had with the amp?




The issue with the bass for example is noticeable almost immediatly, even coming from supposedly inferior gear like the 727 amp (driving the 009). A direct comparison to an electra from the same source also does not take 15 minutes to find what the LLmk2 is doing well / not so well. 

It's far from subtle, I have a hard time calling this a "matter of taste", and personally would take a 727 amp (or 323S as it's not far from the 727 when driving the 009) over the LL any day. That is unless I listen with my wallet instead of my ears.


----------



## bearFNF

Cough cough...I feel sick...might be coming own with the same 009 bug myself ...in the near future???
  
 Cograts on the acquisitions.


----------



## iwik

Hi Guys,
 A first time poster but long time user of Stax SR-Lambda Pro Classic along with Kevin Gilmores
 Tube Amp and then his Full Solid State one. Maybe now his Blue Hawaii as I have just spotted it.
 Back to my question;
 My headphones have the foam disintegrating and I have managed to remove 99% of it. Some
 very small pieces have seemed to have gotten thru the grill. Is it necessary to remove every little bit and is
 it really needed to be replaced. If so what is best to use. Don't want to buy replacement kit as the Pads
 are in Perfect condition.
 Also noticed the grills have sunken in the middle on both. Should this grill be tight and flat?.
 If so I will have to remove the inserts but they appear to be stuck. I don't want to damage
 anything trying to get them out if I don't have to. Any tips or advice would be much appreciated.
 Phones appear to be working ok. Hadnt used them for a few years and just noticed the disintergrating foam.
  
 Thanks
 Les


----------



## padam

Dear Les,
  
 This is the part you need
https://www.staxusa.com/parts/ear-pads/stax-dust-mesh-for-ep234.html
  
 You needn't worry too much about dust as long as the dust cover remains intact it should not get in the drivers.
 I guess you should be able to just gently(!) blow the dust particles out (from an angle).
 The grille is attached to the driver with glue so I would not tinker with it as even if it is slightly bumped it probably does not have any effect on the sound.
  
 By the way, when you have such nice amps, you might be thinking of stepping up a little bit, for instance to the "full-blown" Lambda Pro (not the Classic) if you can find it in nice shape.


----------



## spkrs01

rawrster said:


> Nice! What DAC are you running for all that? You got hit by the Stax bug all at once


 
  
 I will be using both the Metrum Hex and the Lumin Music Player............currently with just the LAu in use, I am running Lumin via SPDIF > Hex balanced > LAu.
  
 If I am able to buy the 8PS which I am told sounds superior off balanced inputs, I will run either the LL2 or LAu single ended. 
  
  


arnaud said:


> The issue with the bass for example is noticeable almost immediatly, even coming from supposedly inferior gear like the 727 amp (driving the 009). A direct comparison to an electra from the same source also does not take 15 minutes to find what the LLmk2 is doing well / not so well.
> 
> It's far from subtle, I have a hard time calling this a "matter of taste", and personally would take a 727 amp (or 323S as it's not far from the 727 when driving the 009) over the LL any day. That is unless I listen with my wallet instead of my ears.


 
  
 Hey Arnaud, I do find it interesting what you guys heard with the LL2 in your Stax mini meet regarding the bass performance, sounding very staccato with a complete lack of decay or very little. It is definitely different to what several owners that I have spoken to reports. Which gives rise to me thinking there may be something wrong with your demo LL2 or upstream chain synergy wise. Although I am very apprehensive in identifying the problem as the upstream chain unless the LL2 is so revealing to the nth degree.
  
 The LL2 will have all the opportunities in my system to perform well, with isolation cones, good power management and excellent cabling both power and i/c, and I will pay particular attention to the bass performance reporting back accordingly.


----------



## arnaud

Hi gavin, i doubt it is the upstream gear as i heard it in my rig, that of anakchan's + another top dog dac converter brought by a friend (totaldac d1).
At this stage, if this isn't what others have experienced, we must have received a lemon from alex (waiting to hear from him as we sent the amp back a month ago or so).


----------



## spkrs01

arnaud said:


> Hi gavin, i doubt it is the upstream gear as i heard it in my rig, that of anakchan's + another top dog dac converter brought by a friend (totaldac d1).
> At this stage, if this isn't what others have experienced, we must have received a lemon from alex (waiting to hear from him as we sent the amp back a month ago or so).


 
  
 Arnaud
  
Shame if it was a lemon, for all parties on your tour!!!
  
 I shall wait for the arrival of mine, and take a view of the LL2 when it arrives........
  
 Have a great weekend!


----------



## gilency

arnaud said:


> Hi gavin, i doubt it is the upstream gear as i heard it in my rig, that of anakchan's + another top dog dac converter brought by a friend (totaldac d1).
> At this stage, if this isn't what others have experienced, we must have received a lemon from alex (waiting to hear from him as we sent the amp back a month ago or so).


----------



## iwik

Thanks Padam,
 Will look into the Pro versions, if i cant get the dust protectors here will try the USA.
 Les


----------



## Manoa1

Hi everyone, I just received a 3010 system (SR-202, SRM-310) off of the Bay and I was excited to join the club and fall in love with Stax. BUT I have noticed buzzing/static in the right driver when certain notes are hit (particularly on female vocals or higher frequencies). Do you think this is the dreaded dust in the driver issue?

(also posted on the entry level Stax thread)


----------



## davidsh

Are there any holes in the plastic film protecting the driver? (look closely)


----------



## Manoa1

davidsh said:


> Are there any holes in the plastic film protecting the driver? (look closely)




Thanks Davidsh for the response. I held the phones up to light I didn't notice any abnormalities (looking through the dust screens). I will look again later on tonight (heading out the door).


----------



## shipsupt

If it's really tied to when certain notes are played I don't think it's a driver issue, sound more like something in the amp or source side of things.


----------



## spkrs01

Spent a wonderful afternoon listening to my friend's 009, while I await delivery of my owns amps............
  
 His system consists of the Playback Design MPS-5 > ARC Ref 5 SE > 8PS, listening to CDs and HiRez music files from a Mac using JRiver.
  
 The 009 sounded so different from what I heard in Tokyo on a Stax amp, where the 009 was ethereal and delicate, the 009 today was full of power and grace, a deadly combination that truly draws one into the music. I never knew that 009 could do bass like what I heard today, full of impact and slam. Composition of sound was wonderful, leading edges, note, decay was compelling, and instrument specific in all three main frequencies. Soundstaging was surprising today too. Where in Tokyo, the images were floating around the forehead, today they were smack bang in front, well structured and correct, with good palpability. 
  
With the ARC Ref 5 SE in the chain compared to just the 8PS resulted in better dynamics on both the micro and macro level, larger soundstaging and more solidity to images.....................


----------



## astrostar59

Hi spkrs01
 I confer with that. I run the SR-007s with a Stax SRM-717, Audio Note 3.1 tubed DAC and Audio Note M3 tubed preamp between the DAC and the SRM-717.
  
 The difference is bigger more dynamic sound, better bass weight and detail, smoother treble and beautiful midrange realism.
 On it's own, the Stax amp sounds metallic and thin, smaller and less realistic.
  
 I run the SRM-717 at full bypassing the volume control, so in a way like a class A power amp. I can tweak the sound with tube choice in the DAC and pre amp, which both have Tungsol 5687s at the moment, and Bendix regulator tubes.
  
 Source comes from a Mac Mini 2013 with Firewire external and using Audirvana+ inc iTunes. I use an iMac to remote screen the Mac Mini. I have not drop outs or issues so far. The SPDIF convertor is an M2Tech full stack with ext clock and custom PS.
  
 For the sound I am getting, it's good value.


----------



## Hun7er

spkrs01 said:


> Spent a wonderful afternoon listening to my friend's 009, while I await delivery of my owns amps............
> 
> His system consists of the Playback Design MPS-5 > ARC Ref 5 SE > 8PS, listening to CDs and HiRez music files from a Mac using JRiver.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Everytime we can read HD800 or SR009 sound sterile, harsh or thin. For me it's not true when properly amped they can do thing that no others cans do.


----------



## Manoa1

shipsupt said:


> If it's really tied to when certain notes are played I don't think it's a driver issue, sound more like something in the amp or source side of things.




I tried changing my source, interconnects, and earspeaker socket on the amp but I still had the same result. I hope its not the amp because I'm working out a deal with the seller to swap the headphones.


----------



## greggf

I have yet to hear the SR009 as harsh, thin, or metallic with current production Stax amps.  God, I hope I'm not doing something wrong.  Maybe I need a better amp.


----------



## Manoa1

shipsupt said:


> If it's really tied to when certain notes are played I don't think it's a driver issue, sound more like something in the amp or source side of things.




Your comment made me curious so I started looking at the 310 amp, particularly at the balance screw on the back. To balance the sound so vocals are centered, the screw was maxed all the way to the right. I played with the balance a bit and even with the screw maxed to the left channel I still get the buzzing/static on higher/loud frequencies in the right ear. Any thoughts?


----------



## ALSO

(Begins again, bid #1, this time for posterity as well.)


----------



## graben

I've been away for awhile. Did the Chinese company that bought Stax end up making any changes?


----------



## 3X0

Edifier? As far as I know Stax still operates independently and their designs and production remain unaffected by the acquisition.


----------



## shipsupt

That adjustment should only need to be made if you've got some imbalance in the headphones.  My 310 is set dead center.  I'm not sure it's related to the noise you're hearing, but seems that those headphones have some imbalance that's being corrected by the amp.
  
  
 Quote:


manoa1 said:


> Your comment made me curious so I started looking at the 310 amp, particularly at the balance screw on the back. To balance the sound so vocals are centered, the screw was maxed all the way to the right. I played with the balance a bit and even with the screw maxed to the left channel I still get the buzzing/static on higher/loud frequencies in the right ear. Any thoughts?


----------



## edstrelow

rawrster said:


> So recently i've been thinking of selling my dynamic rig or at least my dac/amp to start with. I have a SR007 already and I'm not a huge fan of the SR009. Is there anything else that I should look at?


 
 You might look try listening to a Sigma Pro or better yet  Sigma/404.  These have a rather different sound than other stats and I find them excellent with vocal. choral and opera.


----------



## iwik

Padam,
 Those Lambda Pro (not the Classic) is that what they call them or is there a SRxxx?.
 Thanks
 Les


----------



## spkrs01

My good friend has closed the deal on this 2nd hand 8PS on my behalf from a Chinese seller.
  
 I should be receiving the amp in a week or so!
  

  

  

  

  
 Pictures are from the seller.


----------



## nickif

spkrs01 said:


> My good friend has closed the deal on this 2nd hand 8PS on my behalf from a Chinese seller.
> 
> I should be receiving the amp in a week or so




Congrats Gavin! this one seems to be in better shape than mine, looking forward to your comparison between the 8PS and LL2


----------



## spkrs01

nickif said:


> Congrats Gavin! this one seems to be in better shape than mine, looking forward to your comparison between the 8PS and LL2


 
  
 All thanks to you for pointing me to this amp.
  
 Cost/Performance ratio is incredible..................very excited to receive it!


----------



## RiStaR

Please do share your impressions of the two amps. Very interested to learn more about the Chinese DIY amp, too


----------



## 2Erly

Hm. So Ive already decided that I'll be coming over to the Stax camp but still going back and forth whether I want to go with the 007MK1/2 or 009s... Can someone give me some insight on which I should lean towards given my experiences & preferences? Im also a 1 headphone kind of guy so while I know 1 headphone wont excel at everything we can definitely try to cover as much bases as possible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 I currently have a pair of Audeze LCD2s Rev1 that I like after years back buying some Denon 7ks which I ended up not liking at all due to its brightness, harshness and just overall sloppyness IMO and stepping back from headphones. Im now looking for something more open sounding/separated, and though I do enjoy the non bright sound I feel like some of the details of the music are rolled off/lost because of its "darkness" sometimes. Also, I find the "slam" of the LCD2s to be fatiguing sometimes, though I do enjoy the body the music has. Genres I listen to in no particular order mostly are TripHop, Old RNB/Soul, Folk, Ambient music, and some Jazz.


----------



## NoPants

O2 mk1


----------



## dukeskd

^X2. With the 007mkI you will find near zero fatigue, and it is probably one of the very few (the only one in my experience) that has the ability to be like that whilst excelling in detail extraction + impact. SR009 on the other hand has a bright sound sig, and depending on your personal tastes and amp/source, it could be induce fatigue.


----------



## jackskelly

After finally getting an electrostatic amp, a used Cavalli Liquid Lightning MKI, I'm finally able to listen to my 009s at my own place. After listening for most of this weekend and last night (after getting the amp on Friday), they're growing on me even more, and now definitely think that they're a cut above the HD-800s and any other top-of-the-line dynamic headphone I've owned or heard. As much as I love the HD-800s, I don't think they'll get very much listening anymore. The resolution and transparency they provide are simply astounding, and I can definitely tell that my DAC is now the limiting factor in my system. I think I now see what Currawong meant when he wrote "You'll never have a good enough source for them" in his review for the 009s.


----------



## DefQon

I just ordered the LLmk3.


----------



## paradoxper

defqon said:


> I just ordered the LLmk3.


 
 Judging by preliminary results the LL MKIII is every bit as good as LL MKII, maybe even better.


----------



## livewire

defqon said:


> I just ordered the LLmk3.


 
  
 Would that be the latest iteration with tubes in it?
  
 The one that isn't on their website?
  
 Isn't an LL2 good enuf 4U?
  
 Didja know that the LL Mk2 is sold out and they won't have any until 2015! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 (or they aren't very good at updating their website...)


----------



## 2Erly

dukeskd said:


> ^X2. With the 007mkI you will find near zero fatigue, and it is probably one of the very few (the only one in my experience) that has the ability to be like that whilst excelling in detail extraction + impact. SR009 on the other hand has a bright sound sig, and depending on your personal tastes and amp/source, it could be induce fatigue.


 
  


nopants said:


> O2 mk1


 
  
 Thanks for the responses. On the technical side, I will be using a transformer 1st, probably an SRD7 with my power amp; is this sufficient?. I asked this before regarding the 009s but apparently the 007s are more difficult to drive. My amp specs are:
  
 Continuous Power Output 120w + 120w Min RMS per channel into 8 ohms from 20 to 20,000 Hz at rated T.H.D both channels driven Both Channels driven at 1,000Hz - 8ohms 120w +120w - 4ohms 130w + 130w Total harmonic distortion at 8ohms at rated power 0.008% Intermodulation distortion 0.008% Power Bandwidth (T.H.D. 0.05%) 5 - 70kHz Damping factor - 8ohms 70 Slow Rate 100V/uS Input sensitivity/impedance Main In - 1,000mV/50kohms Signal to noise ratio Main in - 110dB Frequency Response Main in (5-100kHz) +0/-0.5 DB Power AC 120v 60Hz Power Consumption 480W 620VA


----------



## MacedonianHero

dukeskd said:


> ^X2. With the 007mkI you will find near zero fatigue, and it is probably one of the very few (the only one in my experience) that has the ability to be like that whilst excelling in detail extraction + impact. SR009 on the other hand has a bright sound sig, and depending on your personal tastes and amp/source, it could be induce fatigue.


 
  
 The SR-007Mk1s are very special headphones and I enjoy them quite a bit, but I would classify them as a hint on the darker side and the SR-009s are pretty darn neutral (by my standards anyway) on my KGSSHV/BDA-2 setup. 
  


jackskelly said:


> After finally getting an electrostatic amp, a used Cavalli Liquid Lightning MKI, I'm finally able to listen to my 009s at my own place. After listening for most of this weekend and last night (after getting the amp on Friday), they're growing on me even more, and now definitely think that they're a cut above the HD-800s and any other top-of-the-line dynamic headphone I've owned or heard. As much as I love the HD-800s, I don't think they'll get very much listening anymore. The resolution and transparency they provide are simply astounding, and I can definitely tell that my DAC is now the limiting factor in my system. I think I now see what Currawong meant when he wrote "You'll never have a good enough source for them" in his review for the 009s.


 
  
 I would suggest that you're leaving a lot of cards on the table with the SR-009s if you're using the LLMk1. I owned it and was not impressed to say the least. The SR-009s are so much more capable.


----------



## nickif

macedonianhero said:


> I would suggest that you're leaving a lot of cards on the table with the SR-009s if you're using the LLMk1. I owned it and was not impressed to say the least. The SR-009s are so much more capable.


 
  
 I'd have to second this, owned LLMK2 for a short period of time and was not impressed at all either.


----------



## DefQon

2erly said:


> Thanks for the responses. On the technical side, I will be using a transformer 1st, probably an SRD7 with my power amp; is this sufficient?.


 
 SRD-7 = Normal bias energizer. You need an SRD-7 Pro or SRD-7sb MK2 or Woo Wee at least bare minimum to power pro bias headphones let alone the power hungry O2 mk1's. Yes 009's easier to drive then 007's (regardless of mark versions).
  


nickif said:


> I'd have to second this, owned LLMK2 for a short period of time and was not impressed at all either.


 
 Wow that really says something considering Peter's LLMk1 vs KGSSHV comparison thread was masqueraded by other users saying the MK2 is so much more superior to the MK1. 
  
 :S


----------



## shipsupt

"masqueraded"?


----------



## jackskelly

macedonianhero said:


> The SR-007Mk1s are very special headphones and I enjoy them quite a bit, but I would classify them as a hint on the darker side and the SR-009s are pretty darn neutral (by my standards anyway) on my KGSSHV/BDA-2 setup.
> 
> 
> I would suggest that you're leaving a lot of cards on the table with the SR-009s if you're using the LLMk1. I owned it and was not impressed to say the least. The SR-009s are so much more capable.


 

 Well I'm still waiting on my BHSE, which I still plan on getting. I just wanted to get some sort of electrostatic amp that would allow me to listen to STAX headphones. I didn't want to get a STAX amp (such as the SRM-727II) because of all the negative things I've heard about them from people. So far I'm really liking the 009s with the LL, so it'll do for now at least. If I am leaving a lot of cards on the table that's probably a good thing because that means the 009s can sound even better than they do now (which is hard to imagine because they already sound so great).


----------



## dukeskd

jackskelly said:


> Well I'm still waiting on my BHSE, which I still plan on getting. I just wanted to get some sort of electrostatic amp that would allow me to listen to STAX headphones. I didn't want to get a STAX amp (such as the SRM-727II) because of all the negative things I've heard about them from people. So far I'm really liking the 009s with the LL, so it'll do for now at least. If I am leaving a lot of cards on the table that's probably a good thing because that means the 009s can sound even better than they do now (which is hard to imagine because they already sound so great).


 

 Negative things? The 727 is great with the 009.


----------



## paradoxper

jackskelly said:


> Well I'm still waiting on my BHSE, which I still plan on getting. I just wanted to get some sort of electrostatic amp that would allow me to listen to STAX headphones. I didn't want to get a STAX amp (such as the SRM-727II) because of all the negative things I've heard about them from people. So far I'm really liking the 009s with the LL, so it'll do for now at least. If I am leaving a lot of cards on the table that's probably a good thing because that means the 009s can sound even better than they do now (which is hard to imagine because they already sound so great).


 
 There's a ton of people who have enjoyed the 727. Plus, because of all the negative things I've heard from people the 727 is better than the LL.
  
 You could also try out the feedback with the 727, which is reversible.


----------



## greggf

"~~ I didn't want to get a STAX amp (such as the SRM-727II) because of all the negative things I've heard about them from people."
  
 I'm really enjoying my 007TII amp with all my STAX headphones, and I like the 323S, too.  You gotta remember that this is a "perfectionist audio" website, and folks here are willing to spend all the money and effort necessary to drag the last ounce of performance out of their gear.  Sometimes it works a little bit, sometimes it just changes the sound, sometimes it's a step backwards.
  
 In any case, the STAX amps are great at their price points, and should be enjoyed!


----------



## jackskelly

greggf said:


> "~~ I didn't want to get a STAX amp (such as the SRM-727II) because of all the negative things I've heard about them from people."
> 
> I'm really enjoying my 007TII amp with all my STAX headphones, and I like the 323S, too.  You gotta remember that this is a "perfectionist audio" website, and folks here are willing to spend all the money and effort necessary to drag the last ounce of performance out of their gear.  Sometimes it works a little bit, sometimes it just changes the sound, sometimes it's a step backwards.
> 
> In any case, the STAX amps are great at their price points, and should be enjoyed!


 
  
 Unfortunately I haven't heard any STAX amps, I'll have to if I see one at a meet. Sorry if I upset anyone, I'm sure the STAX amps are fine, and maybe I should consider getting one, but when I was looking around for amps a lot of people seemed to say something to the effect of "don't bother getting a STAX amp, if you get the 009s you should get something like the LL, BHSE, WES, etc."


----------



## dukeskd

jackskelly said:


> Unfortunately I haven't heard any STAX amps, I'll have to if I see one at a meet. Sorry if I upset anyone, I'm sure the STAX amps are fine, and maybe I should consider getting one, but when I was looking around for amps a lot of people seemed to say something to the effect of "don't bother getting a STAX amp, if you get the 009s you should get something like the LL, BHSE, WES, etc."


 
 Seemingly not good advice, time to ask other members for advice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The 727 + 009 combo is a lot better than 009 + LL or 009 + WES (and for a lot less money).


----------



## rawrster

dukeskd said:


> Seemingly not good advice, time to ask other members for advice
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow seriously? I've never heard any variation of the LL but that's pretty crazy when it's more than double the price.


----------



## AnakChan

> jackskelly said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately I haven't heard any STAX amps, I'll have to if I see one at a meet. Sorry if I upset anyone, I'm sure the STAX amps are fine, and maybe I should consider getting one, but when I was looking around for amps a lot of people seemed to say something to the effect of "don't bother getting a STAX amp, if you get the 009s you should get something like the LL, BHSE, WES, etc."
> ...


 
  
 Each to their own IMHO. For my ears, None of the amps I've owned or demoed has made the SR-009 sound bad - the amps I had/demo-ed just sounded good to better. The SRM-727A kept me quite satisfied for a good 18 months, and the LL2 was an improvement over the 727A especially in the area of staging and imaging, but I eventually settled with the Electra which gave for me the best bang for the buck. If was given an LL2 to replace my 727A for my SR-009 headphone, I'd gladly accept it.
  
 With the SR-007Mk1 on the other hand, that's a different matter. I'd have a personal preference of the 727A over the LL2 as I felt it was a little too slow for that headphone.
  
 If it were my wallet speaking though, I would have gone for the 727A -> BSHE route.


----------



## dukeskd

anakchan said:


> Each to their own IMHO. For my ears, None of the amps I've owned or demoed has made the SR-009 sound bad - the amps I had/demo-ed just sounded good to better. The SRM-727A kept me quite satisfied for a good 18 months, and the LL2 was an improvement over the 727A especially in the area of staging and imaging, but I eventually settled with the Electra which gave for me the best bang for the buck. If was given an LL2 to replace my 727A for my SR-009 headphone, I'd gladly accept it.
> 
> With the SR-007Mk1 on the other hand, that's a different matter. I'd have a personal preference of the 727A over the LL2 as I felt it was a little too slow for that headphone.
> 
> If it were my wallet speaking though, I would have gone for the 727A -> BSHE route.


 

 You are right. The SR-009 sounded good from a $100 adapter hooked up to my Alesis RA150 ($150) power amp. However, this is a niche market for audiophiles, so such astronomical price-to-performance ratio are to be expected in the case of LL and WES.. Of the aforementioned amps, the 727 is definitely best bang for the buck.
  
 I never had any problems with the 727 + 009 but with the 007 it felt underwhelming because it is quite noticeable the ear speakers need another level of amplification (BHSE, T2).


----------



## AnakChan

dukeskd said:


> *You are right. The SR-009 sounded good from a $100 adapter hooked up to my Alesis RA150 ($150) power amp.* However, this is a niche market for audiophiles, so such astronomical price-to-performance ratio are to be expected in the case of LL and WES.. Of the aforementioned amps, the 727 is definitely best bang for the buck.
> 
> I never had any problems with the 727 + 009 but with the 007 it felt underwhelming because it is quite noticeable the ear speakers need another level of amplification (BHSE, T2).


 
  
 I don't know as I don't have such as setup. Maybe you care to divulge more detail about the setup and how it sounds?
  
 As I mentioned of the amps I've tried with the SR-009 and I felt from the 727A/LL2/Electra they sounded a range from good to great for the aforementioned aspects. As opposed with the 007Mk1, it was unacceptable to great from the LL2/727/Electra.


----------



## shipsupt

So, looks like a few new STAX items at CES!  From what I saw, a new portable amp, portable DAC/AMP, and entry level amp.  No T3 or 010, but still good to see them rolling new stuff out.


----------



## greggf

Wow.  STAX alive!


----------



## davidsh

Too bad they focus so much on the portable stuff. Who wants it anyway?


----------



## shipsupt

It may seem like a focus on portable, but it might in fact be a change in focus on entry level. 
  
 I do enjoy my 002 set up, but it is very niche, and I only use it when traveling in the hotel and remote offices.  It's my "check on" travel rig. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I'll be checking out the DAC/Amp and consider it to clean this rig up a little.
  
 The new entry level amp looks pretty slick on the outside.  I wonder if they've changed much inside?


----------



## NoPants

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/amplifiers-stax-ed-1monitor-headphone-equalizer-2014-01-07-headphones-95033
  
 Someone grab it for a teardown


----------



## shipsupt

He seems to want to sell everything as a package.  I wonder if he'd spit it up?
  
 I've always been keen to hear the ED-1.


----------



## davidsh

I'll like to have the srm1


----------



## shipsupt

Maybe we can team up on offers!


----------



## davidsh

The worst part is the shipping.. For me at least.


----------



## shipsupt

Me too... UK.  Not to mention the good chance they'll bang me for some VAT.  Buggers.


----------



## davidsh

Not if it's a gift or something along those lines? Well I wouldn't be interested in paying more than 550, max 600$ for amp and lambdas which is probably not doable...


----------



## nickif

I haven't had the chance to try 007 on 727, but used to pair 007 with 007TII tube amp. That combo was not unacceptable but def. lacks of dynamic and has no control over the bottom end of the 007s which needs lots of grips from the amp.


----------



## thinker

-


----------



## AnakChan

nickif said:


> I haven't had the chance to try 007 on 727, but used to pair 007 with 007TII tube amp. That combo was not unacceptable but def. lacks of dynamic and has no control over the bottom end of the 007s which needs lots of grips from the amp.


 
  
 Personally for what I was seeking for my listening pleasure (and my wallet) :-
  
 SR-009/007tA - didn't buy. Had decent depth and imaging but slow for faster pop/hiphop. etc songs. I borrowed & tested a friend's 007tA with a shop's 727 side-by-side using the 009 and continued to borrow the 007tA for home use even after buying the 727
 SR-009/727 - bought and enjoyed
 SR-009/Electra - bought & enjoying more
 SR-007/007tA - didn't buy. Didn't enjoy for same reasons (but different intensity of distaste)
 SR-007/727 - would have been a "no buy". But just borderline
 SR-007/Electra - love it
  
 spkrs01's VAW 8PS has made me curious about that too. I'm looking forward to his findings this weekend.


----------



## thinker

-


----------



## rx79ez08

thinker said:


> picture from Stax CES 2014 are these new Stax Lambdas if yes i am very interested
> http://detail.zol.com.cn/picture_index_1272/index12714856.shtml#/&pn=24


 
 Looks like the SR-404LE. The 30th aniversity version from a few years ago.
  
 http://www.headfonia.com/sr-404le-sr-404-signature-and-sr-lambda-pro/stax_sr404_le_lambdapro_11/


----------



## nickif

anakchan said:


> Personally for what I was seeking for my listening pleasure (and my wallet) :-
> 
> SR-009/007tA - didn't buy. Had decent depth and imaging but slow for faster pop/hiphop. etc songs. I borrowed & tested a friend's 007tA with a shop's 727 side-by-side using the 009 and continued to borrow the 007tA for home use even after buying the 727
> SR-009/727 - bought and enjoyed
> ...


 
  

 Thanks for sharing Sean.
  
 In terms of C/P ratio, IMHO, the VAW 8PS is second to none! I've been a happy user since 2007 (paired with 007s back then), didn't realize what it is capable of until I heard the LL2. I was looking for a substantial upgrade in SQ from the purchase of LL MK2 couple of months ago, as the LL2 is 5 times pricier than the 8PS. The result was jaw-dropping, when driving the 009s, the 8ps sounded just as good as the LL MK2, if not better. To my ears, the LL MK2 excels in deeper and tighter bass, better bass resolution, bigger and more regular headstage (in front of the listener) while the 8PS has an edge on the timber(warmer and sweater, quite personal here though), better coherence across the whole frequency, more airy, better ambience, better decay… with the 8PS, music suddenly becomes more alive, more foot-tapping, more engaging. To me, the 8PS is clearly the better sounding (NOT BETTER) amp to pair with the 009s.   
  
 I’d have to admit that generally I prefer the tube over SS so do take my words with a grain of salt.


----------



## mangler

http://detail.zol.com.cn/picture_index_1272/index12714856.shtml#/&pn=26

Anybody know what the headphone all the way over on the left is? At first I thought it was another 009 or 007A, but looking more closely it looks like something else. Anybody know what it is?


----------



## dude_500

mangler said:


> http://detail.zol.com.cn/picture_index_1272/index12714856.shtml#/&pn=26
> 
> Anybody know what the headphone all the way over on the left is? At first I thought it was another 009 or 007A, but looking more closely it looks like something else. Kind of looks like it might even be a closed-back


 
  
  
 Stax SR-3. The image represents the time evolution of Stax products from left to right.


----------



## mangler

dude_500 said:


> Stax SR-3. The image represents the time evolution of Stax products from left to right.




Ahhhhh, I see. Thanks for that


----------



## jackskelly

Well I let my brother listen to my SR-009s paired with the Liquid Lightning last night for the first time and he was completely blown away. He's not an audiophile and doesn't own anything nicer than an ipod with earbuds but he enjoys music. He had also never heard an electrostatic headphone before. He has though heard several high-end headphones I own or have owned before, like the T1, HD-800 and LCD-2. Interestingly, we compared the HD-800s to the SR-009s directly (and even though the amp I'm using for the HD-800s, the Nuforce DAC-100, isn't a dynamic equivalent of a LL, I still think it pairs quite excellently) and he thought the SR-009s bettered the HD-800s by a wide margin, that it wasn't really even close. He said that he expected to be disappointed based on the cost of the headphones but that they actually exceeded his expectations. I still really like the HD-800s, but I think I'm in agreement with him.


----------



## Manoa1

I posted earlier that I bought a SRS-3010 system from the Bay that I am having problems with. The right channel produces static/cracking at certain frequencies (think Adele). 

The seller was nice enough to lend me a SR-303 to test and resolve the issue but unfortunately I get the same results. That leaves the SRM-310 amp as the culprit (the source and DAC checked out okay).

I'm guessing it's hard to diagnose the problem without opening up the amp. But do you think it is worth it to keep the system and chase the problem? 

I really am loving the Stax sound and would be sad to have to send it back . I have $475 invested and shipping everything back might cost close to $100.


----------



## milosz

When I hear about the issues some Head-Fi'ers  have had buying used Stax headphones, I have to count my blessings!  I never had any problems with any used Stax gear I bought.
  
 USED STAX GEAR THAT I CURRENTLY HAVE   WORKS JUST FINE
  
 SR-007 MK I
 Lambda Pro Signature
 SRM-T1
  
 USED STAX GEAR THAT I ONCE HAD AND HAVE SINCE SOLD   WORKED JUST FINE
  
 SR-007 MK 2.5
 Lambda Pro
 SR-7 Pro
 SRM-1 MK 2  
  
 I wonder- was I just pretty luck here-  or does most of the used stuff usually work OK, with the exceptions being headphones with crackling etc.??


----------



## s1rrah

Sold all my dynamic gear and bought a Stax SRM-323S amp and am using it with both SR-307 and Koss ESP950 headphones. I could not be happier. 
  
 The Koss headphones are ridiculously good counterpoint to the more analytic SR-307's. I haven't used them much with the stock E90 amp ... but with the 323S, they sing. Great cans...


----------



## Manoa1

Maybe you were a little lucky and some of us were a little unlucky. At first I was thinking, oh okay this whole Stax thing is a pain in the butt and not worth it, I'm done. But the more I listened, the more I understood why some of the Stax "inconveniences" are worth putting up with. As for me, I decided to keep and hopely fix my slightly flawed amp (paired with the SR-303's that the seller upgraded me to as compensation).



milosz said:


> When I hear about the issues some Head-Fi'ers  have had buying used Stax headphones, I have to count my blessings!  I never had any problems with any used Stax gear I bought.
> 
> USED STAX GEAR THAT I CURRENTLY HAVE   WORKS JUST FINE
> 
> ...


----------



## astrostar59

Hi Guys
 I run an SRM-717 with my SR-007s Mk2.5s. BUT I have an Audio Note tubed pre-amp before the 717, so it is giving the 717 a big signal
 before it gets going. By having the 717 at volume bypass it is working like a class A amp (full power).
  
 I must say I don't find any compression or lack of bass. Running the Stax amp on it's own returns the sound to a thin and artificial cold
 presentation with limited dynamics and sound stage.
  
 This might help others who think they need an exotic tubed headphone amp? 
  
 However, to get close to the full potential of either the 007s or the 009s, you need a very clean front end source. I found None
 oversampling tubed based DACs like the Lampistor or the Audio Note DACs work best.


----------



## shipsupt

milosz said:


> When I hear about the issues some Head-Fi'ers  have had buying used Stax headphones, I have to count my blessings!  I never had any problems with any used Stax gear I bought.
> 
> USED STAX GEAR THAT I CURRENTLY HAVE   WORKS JUST FINE
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Maybe a little of both. Some of the gear we are discussing is pretty old.  Failures due to age are to be expected.  The good news is that the STAX gear in general has shown to be very robust.  
  
 I've had similar good "luck".  I have one pair of Lambda Pro's that I believe needs a new cable, but otherwise I've had no significant issues with used STAX gear.  I can't imagine we're alone in getting gear without issues, it's just not the kind of thing that we write a lot about on the inter web.
  
 I'm hoping my luck holds out, I've got some gear inbound, including a ED-1 that I hope is in good working condition.


----------



## davidsh

So you got that ed-1? I do remember some member who made a simulation of the ed-1 by the way. Kinda cool.


----------



## NoPants

shipsupt said:


> Maybe a little of both. Some of the gear we are discussing is pretty old.  Failures due to age are to be expected.  The good news is that the STAX gear in general has shown to be very robust.
> 
> I've had similar good "luck".  I have one pair of Lambda Pro's that I believe needs a new cable, but otherwise I've had no significant issues with used STAX gear.  I can't imagine we're alone in getting gear without issues, it's just not the kind of thing that we write a lot about on the inter web.
> 
> I'm hoping my luck holds out, I've got some gear inbound, including a ED-1 that I hope is in good working condition.


 
 If it doesn't work be sure to break it apart and take nice pictures  (maybe even if it's not broken)


----------



## shipsupt

I will be happy to break it open and get some pictures of the internals.
  
 Now that I grabbed it I've found myself oddly interested in the Pawel HP-1.


----------



## schorsch

Try the ED-1 ans Check if you like it!

The HP1 has an extra binaural Mode which is quite spectacular. I can make you an Audio file to check

Regards Georg


----------



## spkrs01

At last I have got everything together with the arrival of the LL2 yesterday and the 8PS today. 
  

  
  

  
 At this juncture I am just letting both amplifiers and headphones some burn in and settling time, with the 007 and 009 plugged in the LL2 and PS8 respectively.
  
 Will post thoughts later in the week on the two Stax headphones, and comparisons of the LL2 and 8PS.....


----------



## NoPants

How do you get a good seal with the 007s that loose? I've been trying to figure out how to properly loosen the headband so it fits but that looks a bit extreme.


----------



## rubenpp

shipsupt said:


> He seems to want to sell everything as a package.  I wonder if he'd spit it up?
> 
> I've always been keen to hear the ED-1.


 

_ I can bring my ED-1 to the SF Bay meet if you like._


----------



## nickif

spkrs01 said:


> At last I have got everything together with the arrival of the LL2 yesterday and the 8PS today.
> 
> At this juncture I am just letting both amplifiers and headphones some burn in and settling time, with the 007 and 009 plugged in the LL2 and PS8 respectively.
> 
> Will post thoughts later in the week on the two Stax headphones, and comparisons of the LL2 and 8PS.....





Congrats, looking forward to the comparison, please make it as lengthy as possible


----------



## DefQon

davidsh said:


> I'll like to have the srm1




SRM-1 is only normal bias, I own one sounds good NB stuff esp the SR-1 and SR-5.


----------



## shipsupt

rubenpp said:


> _ I can bring my ED-1 to the SF Bay meet if you like._


 
  
 Thank you for the VERY kind offer!  Unfortunately work has managed to get in the way of my trip over this time so I'm going to miss my first Bay Area meet in quite some time.  I am bummed.  
  
 I did manage to work a deal on that ED-1 that was on Audigon, so I should have one to try out in the near future.


----------



## ardilla

Hi guys!
  
 What are good tubes for the 007tII ?


----------



## DefQon

ardilla said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> What are good tubes for the 007tII ?


 
  
 Stock Matsu ****a's (Mitsubishi).


----------



## ardilla

defqon said:


> Stock Matsu ****a's (Mitsubishi).


 
  
 OK - why do you like them? How do they compare to the stock EH tubes, and maybe the RCA clear tops?


----------



## thinker

I am looking forward to make a comparison between Stax SR-507 vs Stax Airbow SR-SC21 .As you see my avatar is now black,my friend will mix the phones in a dark room so i don't know on wich phone i am listening.I have some experience with cryo treatment on tubes and Siltech cables and my findings are that cryo treatment makes a somehow crispier sound but not always in good direction.I like the SR-507 very much with a warm source and it is one of the best phones around, i did like this phone so much that i sold the SR-009.I will make the comparison with a fully symmetrical front end and think it's the best way to operate the SR-507 and get soundstage.I don't know if Airbow did something to the drivers on SR-SC21 maybe Spritzer could comment on this but it's said that the SR-SC21 is on par with the SR-009 on many areas like resolution or even better.I release my findings maybe in two weeks


----------



## DefQon

Really?


----------



## dukeskd

defqon said:


> Really?


 

 If it's cryo treated of course it's real


----------



## edstrelow

thinker said:


> I am looking forward to make a comparison between Stax SR-507 vs Stax Airbow SR-SC21 .As you see my avatar is now black,my friend will mix the phones in a dark room so i don't know on wich phone i am listening.I have some experience with cryo treatment on tubes and Siltech cables and my findings are that cryo treatment makes a somehow crispier sound but not always in good direction.I like the SR-507 very much with a warm source and it is one of the best phones around, i did like this phone so much that i sold the SR-009.I will make the comparison with a fully symmetrical front end and think it's the best way to operate the SR-507 and get soundstage.I don't know if Airbow did something to the drivers on SR-SC21 maybe Spritzer could comment on this but it's said that the SR-SC21 is on par with the SR-009 on many areas like resolution or even better.I release my findings maybe in two weeks


 
  
  


defqon said:


> Really?


 
  
  


dukeskd said:


> If it's cryo treated of course it's real


 
  
 I see references to cyro treating of metal parts to make them resistant to wear but how does this apply to headphones, and how do you do it anyway, dip the phones in liquid nitrogen?  I am prepared to consider tweaks if there is some plausible basis to think they might achieve some benefit.  Of course if someone just hands me a tweak I will probably try it anyway irrespective of whether there is, or I understand, a supposed basis of  the benefit. I see no difference between listening for such things and comparing most items of gear where there is little or no science to support a claim that one item is better than another.


----------



## spkrs01

I have had the pleasure of spending nearly a week listening to the Stax SR-009 with the 8PS and LL2 amplifiers, and here are some thoughts.
  
The Stax SR-009 is truly a remarkable pair of headphones and very easy to fall in love with. Totally transparent and devoid of character and colouration. I have now heard the 009 in four different set ups, and they have sounded different every time, from _delicate, ethereal_ to _powerful with great slam and attack_. I do feel that a balance is required in setting up a rig for the 009s as they can tend to sound slightly tilted from the upper mids onwards which lends them to sounding rather thin, bright and with a slight glare in the trebles. 
  
The amplifiers are integrated into my chain of the Lumin Music Player used as transport to the Metrum Hex via SPDif, which in turns sends the balance signal to the LL2 and single ended to the 8PS. All music files are stored on a Synology NAS with Minimserver installed. Components are placed on the Foundation MRS rack. The LL2 and 8PS sits on Nordost Kones and Shun Mook resonators, respectively. I use a Isotek Evo3 Acquarius and a couple of QV2 for power management. Control of the system is via an iPad Air.
  
 Rather than being ultra critical, I took the view of writing this up to define the differences, while allowing for personal preferences of the two amps. All in all, I can say without hesitation that both amplifiers does an incredible job of making the 009 sing!
  
Instantly apparent between the two amplifiers is how good and at the same time different they sound with the 009, and the easiest way to separate the two characters of the amplifiers is that the 8PS has a first 5 row presentation while the LL2 is from the perspective of mid hall. Details galore flow out of the 009 with both amps. The 8PS has better immediacy, faster transients and initially appears the more detailed of the two. However, the LL2 has that uncannily ability to slow the music down to where you are actually hearing more from your music files. 
  
In terms of soundstaging, the LL2 is larger by a fair margin, and proportionally more accurate and correct to my ears. However, both amplifiers throw out a very realistic soundstage in the x, y and z axis, and along with the 009 has this extraordinary ability to illuminate the back of the stage that is not heard so clearly with other headphones. Images differ between the two amps. The 8PS's images are sharper and cleaner, while the LL2's are rounder and less edged out, I must say that both are accurate sounding according to their sonic signatures. I do feel there is better portrayal of inter play between the musicians on the LL2. Tonality and timbre are both conveyed extremely accurately, as is pace and rhythm. Both amplifiers are able to throw images that has great solidity and with a palpable realism.
  
Both amplifiers has the ability in making the 009 sound very balanced and coherent, with great extension at both ends. Bass is resolving on both amplifiers although different in how it is portrayed. The 8PS has faster initial attack and impact, but the LL2 has a lot more weight with better decay and bloom. Bass for me defines size of the soundstage. eg. In Hotel California when the 5 or 6 kick drums comes it, the LL2 lights up the auditorium with bass energy while the 8PS provides a more accurate depiction of the kick drum.
  
One cannot help but be mesmerized by the mids and vocals presentation of the 8PS, it is just so lush and full of nuances and micro details. The listening experience feels as the vocalist is singing _just for you. _So, just so seductive! Is this an accurate portrayal, probably not, as it makes the vocals mouth too large in size compare to other instruments but having all your sense washed over by the performance and attention seemingly just placed on you is indeed an experience to behold. The LL2 is far more realistic with the singer in front of you, in proportion to surrounding instruments size wise and giving a better interpretation of the performance. Having said this, Cassandra Wilson sounds extraordinary excellent on the 8PS.
  
The highs portrayed by the 009 was a problem area for me initially, and I had spent a lot of time switching interconnects and powers cables to alleviate the slight glare/sharpness especially with the 8PS. To my ears, I have managed to have the 009 sounding smoother while maintaining all(?) the detail. The LL2 is a smoother sounding from the outset. The treble is the frequency band where the 009 beats all other headphones for me. The resolution here is off the charts. Percussions are so true to life! Cymbals are portrayed magically, from strike, to the halo like dissipation and the long decay! 
  
Overall, for me, the 8PS is the slightly more clinical sounding, while the LL2 is a touch warmer and more musical. Both are highly accurate!
  
 Comparing the two amps brought back fond memories of the 90s, setting up a home system when I arrived in Hong Kong from London. _My first digital system_. It boiled down to a full Krell or Mark Levinson system with Wilson Watt/Puppies. The LL2 and 8PS has such similarities to the aforementioned home amplifiers. At the time I chose a Krell system which is similar to how the Cavalli LL2 presents music, from mid hall.
  
 Forced to make a choice today on the 8PS and LL2. I will again take a mid hall presentation, so the LL2. Again this is all based on personal preferences and I would have no qualms if the next person chooses the 8PS as their 009 amp. Really the two amplifiers are that good! It is still early days yet, and I have more cables coming in to try tuning the system to suit my listening preferences more.
  
  
 During this period I have not listened to the LAu / Abyss at all, and in the coming weeks I will try to post some thoughts on the 009 and Abyss....


----------



## DefQon

edstrelow said:


> I see references to cyro treating of metal parts to make them resistant to wear but how does this apply to headphones, and how do you do it anyway, dip the phones in liquid nitrogen?  I am prepared to consider tweaks if there is some plausible basis to think they might achieve some benefit.  Of course if someone just hands me a tweak I will probably try it anyway irrespective of whether there is, or I understand, a supposed basis of  the benefit. I see no difference between listening for such things and comparing most items of gear where there is little or no science to support a claim that one item is better than another.


 
  
 It was sarcasm on my part (and dukes) in case you didn't catch on it. Cryo tubes and all that is pure bs.


----------



## thinker

the review will never happen i got today information from Pricejapan that the delivery time for the Cryo Stax is several weeks so i cancelled the order


----------



## librarian

My first Stax setup 
  
 Colorfly C4 > Isabellina HPA LFP-V Ed. > Indeed TA2021 > SRD-6 > Stax SR-Lambda
  
 The two headphones are same model, but sound a little different. One is brighter than the other. And one has a bit of "warm-up" time before sound comes through (5 sec...)
  
 Is "warm-up" time common with vintage Stax?


----------



## davidsh

librarian said:


> My first Stax setup
> 
> Colorfly C4 > Isabellina HPA LFP-V Ed. > Indeed TA2021 > SRD-6 > Stax SR-Lambda
> 
> ...


 
 'Stats taking time to charge is not uncommon for that age. As long as they sound fine with no staying imbalance.


----------



## arnaud

thinker said:


> the review will never happen i got today information from Pricejapan that the delivery time for the Cryo Stax is several weeks so i cancelled the order




Yes but, given that it trounces the sr009, it's probably well worth the wait!

Until the 009 gets cryogenated that is...

Arnaud


----------



## thinker

got these today can't wait to hear mint Sigma pro's


----------



## thinker

,


----------



## Hun7er

Don't like the Sigma Pro I owned too dark and dull.


----------



## shipsupt

There are some strong indications that the drivers that STAX are providing for the Airbows are not the same as the standard drivers.  At least that was the case with the 404's.  It's more likely that the improvements are because of what drivers are in there than the "treatments".  I going on reports from others on this...
  
  
 Quote:


thinker said:


> I am looking forward to make a comparison between Stax SR-507 vs Stax Airbow SR-SC21 .As you see my avatar is now black,my friend will mix the phones in a dark room so i don't know on wich phone i am listening.I have some experience with cryo treatment on tubes and Siltech cables and my findings are that cryo treatment makes a somehow crispier sound but not always in good direction.I like the SR-507 very much with a warm source and it is one of the best phones around, i did like this phone so much that i sold the SR-009.I will make the comparison with a fully symmetrical front end and think it's the best way to operate the SR-507 and get soundstage.I don't know if Airbow did something to the drivers on SR-SC21 maybe Spritzer could comment on this but it's said that the SR-SC21 is on par with the SR-009 on many areas like resolution or even better.I release my findings maybe in two weeks


 
  
  


dukeskd said:


> If it's cryo treated of course it's real


----------



## dukeskd

shipsupt said:


> There are some strong indications that the drivers that STAX are providing for the Airbows are not the same as the standard drivers.  At least that was the case with the 404's.  It's more likely that the improvements are because of what drivers are in there than the "treatments".  I going on reports from others on this...


 
 The treatments are, in other words, BS. I know from Spritzer that these Lambdas are better sounding than the 404s. However, them reaching the level of SR009 or SR007 is absurd because of the limitations of the Lambda design (driver and housing). Perhaps the cryo treatment gives that added edge?


----------



## ALSO

Sorry to change directions, but I've been rotating phones to listen to a new QB-9 I picked up and after several days of listening on the 009, I switched to a Lambda Signature, which I picked up used recently and was stunned to hear a much richer texture.  Perhaps less detail, but incredible sense of body on assorted classical music.  It was immediately noticeable--am I imagining this?  Any thoughts?


----------



## 2Erly

Can someone tell me if this T1S amp can work on US voltage? It lists 100V,117V, 220V, 240V on the rear but under the plug says 240V  can you just plug in the US power cord and it'll work?


----------



## nickif

spkrs01 said:


> I have had the pleasure of spending nearly a week listening to the Stax SR-009 with the 8PS and LL2 amplifiers, and here are some thoughts.
> 
> ...
> During this period I have not listened to the LAu / Abyss at all, and in the coming weeks I will try to post some thoughts on the 009 and Abyss....


 

 Great review Gavin!
 The beauty of this hobby is that sometimes the opinions on a particular product differ dramatically even among experienced players. Although I agree with most of your findings regarding the two amps, my conclusion happens to be exactly the opposite of yours: I found the 8ps is the warmer, more musical one while the LL2 being more neutral(a bit on the cold side maybe), more clinical sounding. How interesting is that!


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Edited.

 Ali


----------



## arnaud

nickif said:


> Great review Gavin!
> The beauty of this hobby is that sometimes the opinions on a particular product differ dramatically even among experienced players. Although I agree with most of your findings regarding the two amps, my conclusion happens to be exactly the opposite of yours: I found the 8ps is the warmer, more musical one while the LL2 being more neutral(a bit on the cold side maybe), more clinical sounding. How interesting is that!


 
  
 To be honest, I don't even feel Gavin and I listened to the same product when talking about the LL2! I appreciate the effort but the findings are so far of my impressions that I don't know what to think.
  
 Arnaud


----------



## spkrs01

nickif said:


> Great review Gavin!
> The beauty of this hobby is that sometimes the opinions on a particular product differ dramatically even among experienced players. Although I agree with most of your findings regarding the two amps, my conclusion happens to be exactly the opposite of yours: I found the 8ps is the warmer, more musical one while the LL2 being more neutral(a bit on the cold side maybe), more clinical sounding. How interesting is that!


 
  
 Thanks buddy..
  
 I think you have highlighted the salient point that opinions can differ immensely. But no problems there whatsoever. If opinions didn't differ there is no need for choices!
  
 Can't wait to hear the 009 on your, hopefully, soon to arrive BHSE!
  


arnaud said:


> To be honest, I don't even feel Gavin and I listened to the same product when talking about the LL2! I appreciate the effort but the findings are so far of my impressions that I don't know what to think.
> 
> Arnaud


 
  
 Arnaud
  
 Hiya. It is indeed interesting regarding the LL2..........
  
 My good friend, an audiophile like myself, was just at my place to listen to both amps with the 009. He also prefers the LL2. I really don't understand why the LL2 sounded the way it did in Tokyo?!!?!


----------



## arnaud

spkrs01 said:


> I really don't understand why the LL2 sounded the way it did in Tokyo?!!?!


 
  
 I never heard from Alex if there really was an issue with the amplifier sent. Maybe 100V/50Hz screwed things up, yet again it's not like what I described was totally new, Peter's (MacedonianHero) and Birgir's (spritzer) findings were along the same lines for an mk1 I recall, at least for the bass quality.


----------



## AnakChan

arnaud said:


> I never heard from Alex if there really was an issue with the amplifier sent. Maybe 100V/50Hz screwed things up, yet again it's not like what I described was totally new, Peter's (MacedonianHero) and Birgir's (spritzer) findings were along the same lines for an mk1 I recall, at least for the bass quality.


 
  
 I agree with Gavin on the soundstage which I mentioned to you too when we were listening together. And I found the LL2 somewhat more laid back (but too laid back for the 007, but fine for the 009; which I mentioned to Alex). Not certain if I heard the rest of what Gavin had mentioned though.
  
 But I have the same suspicion as you about the voltage. I understand a difference of 17V (100V -> 117V component) would impact bass from past discussions with some makers. The problem was that the LL2 we had was mislabeled altogether so we don't know what it was set at.
  
 The rest of the differences we had vs Gavin was the DAC used and we were probably more blasé about the cables being used and isolation pads, etc.


----------



## nickif

arnaud said:


> To be honest, I don't even feel Gavin and I listened to the same product when talking about the LL2! I appreciate the effort but the findings are so far of my impressions that I don't know what to think.
> 
> Arnaud




Hi Arnaud, would you mind sharing with us your impression then?


----------



## shipsupt

There are several different arrangements for changing the voltage on these amps, but you'll need to make a change before you just plug it in.  
  
 Looks like you've got the cover off, can you take some internal shots?
  
 Quote:


2erly said:


> Can someone tell me if this T1S amp can work on US voltage? It lists 100V,117V, 220V, 240V on the rear but under the plug says 240V  can you just plug in the US power cord and it'll work?


----------



## Pier Paolo

Hi, I have a question for Kevin or Spitz (or for everyone that can help me).
 I have an SRM-600 LTD and I would try to transform it in a 006Ts.
 I think that I have to change the 4+4 plate resistors (with what kind) and to change some contact in the valves sockets and then use two 6CG7.
 May someone be more precise so I can proceed in this transformation?
 Also: do you think that is a good idea (I have a 507 to drive) or not?
  
 Thank You in advance
 PP


----------



## 2Erly

shipsupt said:


>


 
  

  
  
  
 I hope its not anything drastic as Im not at all handy with this type of stuff


----------



## NoPants

dukeskd said:


> The treatments are, in other words, BS. I know from Spritzer that these Lambdas are better sounding than the 404s. However, them reaching the level of SR009 or SR007 is absurd because of the limitations of the Lambda design (driver and housing). Perhaps the cryo treatment gives that added edge?


 
 I believe that the drivers are actually re-tensioned in addition to being cryogenically treated. I agree that they won't reach 00* levels but at the end of the day it still falls to preference.


----------



## DefQon

The bar at the back behind the trafo with lots combination coloured wires to it is where you adjust the AC voltage.


----------



## davidsh

Some wires should be resoldered, that's it I suppose


----------



## DefQon

davidsh said:


> Some wires should be resoldered, that's it I suppose


 
  
 Yes this too.


----------



## spritzer

pier paolo said:


> Hi, I have a question for Kevin or Spitz (or for everyone that can help me).
> I have an SRM-600 LTD and I would try to transform it in a 006Ts.
> I think that I have to change the 4+4 plate resistors (with what kind) and to change some contact in the valves sockets and then use two 6CG7.
> May someone be more precise so I can proceed in this transformation?
> ...


 
  
 Change the plate resistors to 30K/2W or greater wattage.  I use Koa SPR2's raised about one inch off the PCB but metal film or metal oxide will be fine as well. 
  
 As for rewiring at the tubes, the current heater setup is for the 6CG7 which is a 6.3V tube.  The ECC99 is 12.6V with a center tap so you need to cut one leg of the heaters and connect that to pin 9.  Bridge 4 and 5 so that the ECC99 runs at 6.3V.  This is for both tube sockets. 
  
 The mod does transform the amp into something much better so well worth it.


----------



## milosz

2erly said:


> Can someone tell me if this T1S amp can work on US voltage? It lists 100V,117V, 220V, 240V on the rear but under the plug says 240V  can you just plug in the US power cord and it'll work?


 
  
 The easiest way to use this in the US is to get a step-up transformer  like  http://www.world-import.com/all-transformers.htm
  
 You plug the transformer into the wall; the wall supplies 120 volts AC to the transformer which steps that up to 240 volts AC  which is what the SRM-T1s  wants.
  
 The USA has standardized on something close to 120 volts - 112, 117, 122....US ac power is roughly 120 volts give or take.
  
 In Europe it is 220 volts to about 240 volts.  In Japan it is 100 volts.
  
 You could adjust the wiring in your amp to set it to expect 120 volts AC instead of the 240 volts it is now set up for, but you will have to move some wires and possibly do some soldering;  if you get it wrong you could damage the amp.  If you are not comfortable with this kind of work, give the job to someone who IS comfortable with this kind of work.  A local audio repair shop should be able to do this for you for maybe $25~$50  I would guess.


----------



## 3X0

The consequences of even attempting to run a 120V amp on 220-240V are fairly obvious, including but not limited to small explosions and forest fires.

But with a 220-240V 50-60Hz amp, what are the risks assuming it could even power on or operate at 120V?


----------



## dude_500

3x0 said:


> The consequences of even attempting to run a 120V amp on 220-240V are fairly obvious, including but not limited to small explosions and forest fires.
> 
> But with a 220-240V 50-60Hz amp, what are the risks assuming it could even power on or operate at 120V?


 
  
 There are electronics that have a maximum rise time and will be damaged in a brown out. That said, I seriously doubt this amplifier is one of those. If you left it on for any considerable amount of time, the tubes could be damaged by having half filament voltage while operating. You should know fast enough whether or not it is working, though.
  
 The odds of it working with half input voltage are effectively zero. If you are sure it is set on 220v, there is no point in trying it at 110v. I'd only consider trying if there is some reason to believe it might automatically configure, which doesn't seem likely if it is marked for a specific voltage.


----------



## 3X0

dude_500 said:


> There are electronics that have a maximum rise time and will be damaged in a brown out. That said, I seriously doubt this amplifier is one of those. If you left it on for any considerable amount of time, the tubes could be damaged by having half filament voltage while operating. You should know fast enough whether or not it is working, though.
> 
> The odds of it working with half input voltage are effectively zero. If you are sure it is set on 220v, there is no point in trying it at 110v. I'd only consider trying if there is some reason to believe it might automatically configure, which doesn't seem likely if it is marked for a specific voltage.


 
 In my case, it is not a SRM-T1S but rather a SRM-323S. The seller advertised it as a 120V USDM amplifier but I see quite clearly now on the back that it is labeled 220-240V 50/60Hz. The internals were not tampered with so I highly doubt it was wired to 120V input.
  
 I hadn't noticed any hiccups in performance or operation using it up until I had noticed this (several months). I'll have a bone to pick with the seller for sure.


----------



## dude_500

3x0 said:


> In my case, it is not a SRM-T1S but rather a SRM-323S. The seller advertised it as a 120V USDM amplifier but I see quite clearly now on the back that it is labeled 220-240V 50/60Hz. The internals were not tampered with so I highly doubt it was wired to 120V input.
> 
> I hadn't noticed any hiccups in performance or operation using it up until I had noticed this (several months). I'll have a bone to pick with the seller for sure.


 
  
 In the case of a solid state amp, it becomes considerably more likely that it'll seem to be working since there are no filaments. The only way it can actually work properly with either voltage is if it had a switching supply, which I'm guessing Stax amps never do. 
  
 That leaves two possibilities, either it was modified, or you're using it at half voltage. In most amplifiers, this would take stages out of proper bias, reduce voltage swing by a factor of two, and greatly hurt amplifier linearity and sound quality, but it'd likely still act as an amplifier. In most but not all cases, there'd also be severe 60hz humm since you wouldn't be over the linear regulator dropout. It seems unlikely you wouldn't know if this is the situation, but I could certainly see it as conceivable. (Inconceivable if you have a lot of experience with Stax products and would notice half volume, poor linearity, etc.)
  
 Kind of puts you in a sticky situation, since if it was modified to operate on 110v and you connect 220v it'll blow up! I would definitely contact the seller and ask for details on the input voltage.


----------



## 3X0

dude_500 said:


> In the case of a solid state amp, it becomes considerably more likely that it'll seem to be working since there are no filaments. The only way it can actually work properly with either voltage is if it had a switching supply, which I'm guessing Stax amps never do.
> 
> That leaves two possibilities, either it was modified, or you're using it at half voltage. In most amplifiers, this would take stages out of proper bias, reduce voltage swing by a factor of two, and greatly hurt amplifier linearity and sound quality, but it'd likely still act as an amplifier. In most but not all cases, there'd also be severe 60hz humm since you wouldn't be over the linear regulator dropout. It seems unlikely you wouldn't know if this is the situation, but I could certainly see it as conceivable. (Inconceivable if you have a lot of experience with Stax products and would notice half volume, poor linearity, etc.)
> 
> Kind of puts you in a sticky situation, since if it was modified to operate on 110v and you connect 220v it'll blow up! I would definitely contact the seller and ask for details on the input voltage.


 
 Thanks; this is just the type of answer I was seeking. I don't suppose it was converted as I received it brand new.
  
 I guess the other option would be to open it up with the intent of switching to 120V, with the potential of being pleasantly surprised.
  
 It sounded "better" than either my 120V SRM-T1 or SRM-T1S ever did, but seems significantly less sensitive on the dial than the latter of the two. Guess it's time to crack it open...


----------



## spkrs01

The Liquid Lightning mk2 is such a delightful sounding amp. I have been enjoying both pairs of my Stax headphones on this amplifier so much. Stunning performance..................


----------



## Pier Paolo

pier paolo said:


> Hi, I have a question for Kevin or Spitz (or for everyone that can help me).
> I have an SRM-600 LTD and I would try to transform it in a 006Ts.
> I think that I have to change the 4+4 plate resistors (with what kind) and to change some contact in the valves sockets and then use two 6CG7.
> May someone be more precise so I can proceed in this transformation?
> ...


 
 No answer?


----------



## kevin gilmore

just noticed this.  You have to rewire the socket for the filament difference
 or make an adapter, and then the tubes won't fit in the case. Otherwise
 no other circuit changes. You will have to adjust the offset and differentials.
  
 If the srm323 is wired for 240v, its not even going to make any music
 when plugged into 120v. Or if it does make music its going to be very distorted.
 A 240V model would have all 6 wires on the transformer, so the conversion to
 120V is easy. Its the 200V or 100V model that is the problem.


----------



## Pier Paolo

kevin gilmore said:


> just noticed this.  You have to rewire the socket for the filament difference
> or make an adapter, and then the tubes won't fit in the case. Otherwise
> no other circuit changes. You will have to adjust the offset and differentials.




Welcome back, Kevin, and thank you.
I though that I had to change the plate resistors. I have (4+4)X30Kohm now with the ECC99.
And which tubes you can suggest? Or it would be better to stick with the 99?
Also, when you say "You will have to adjust the offset and differentials" are you talking about the same bias setting procedure (set near to zero V) that I use when I change the tubes?


----------



## kevin gilmore

bias settings, yes. which really are not bias settings.
  
 you should check out how the filaments are actually wired first.
 I think its 6V, but it may be 12V. If it actually is 12V, then you
 have to wire the 6cg7 filaments in series because those are 6V
 tubes only.


----------



## Pier Paolo

kevin gilmore said:


> bias settings, yes. which really are not bias settings.
> 
> you should check out how the filaments are actually wired first.
> I think its 6V, but it may be 12V. If it actually is 12V, then you
> ...




Ok, Kevin, I will try. Have you an srm-006 ts schematic, please?


----------



## milosz

What?!?.  No posts for 6 days?
  
 I'll post something.
  
 Quick survey-
  
*1. How many days a week do you listen to headphones?*
  
*2. How many minutes or hours in a typical session?*
  
*3. What percent of listening is with electrostatic headphones?*
  
  
  
 My answers:  * 1. 2    2. 2 hrs   3. 100%* for about the last year.  Tried going back to some ortho's and dynamics but that didn't last long, immediately went back to my electrostatics.


----------



## chinsettawong

1. 2

2. 2 hours

3. 100% DIY electrostatic headphones.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

1. 4-5
 2. 90
 3. 100%
  
 Edit: 100% when it comes to headphones. On weekends I listen to speakers.


----------



## DefQon

4, 2-3 and 30 other 70% is speakers.


----------



## Lornecherry

1) 5 days a week, about 15 hours per week or 75% of my music listening through electrostatics (rest is in-car or through speakers).


----------



## dude_500

7, 8-10 hours (if you count passive listening as a 'listening session'), 100% electrostatic!


----------



## negura

*1. How many days a week do you listen to headphones?*
  
*7*
  
*2. How many minutes or hours in a typical session?*
  
*2-3*
  
*3. What percent of listening is with electrostatic headphones?*
  
*100%*
  
 The questions are only related to headphones time, but out of my overall listening time speakers are 40%, headphones 60%.


----------



## barid

milosz said:


> What?!?.  No posts for 6 days?
> 
> I'll post something.
> 
> ...


 
 1. 7 days
 2. varies, at least 1 hour, sometimes all day.
 3. 25%.  still keep a rotation going.


----------



## realmassy

If I exclude the hours I spend in the office _using _headphones only to cover the noise from my colleagues (i wouldn't call that listening):
  
 1. 4 days
 2. 2 hours
 3. 100% STAX


----------



## davidsh

Well, I don't listen to my T1/Sigma setup at all for the moment, right now I'm using my HE-5le and HE-500 through the emo.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

5 days a week

A couple albums per session, if you count netflix a lot more head time haha

100% electrostats


----------



## karlgerman

1:     5 days a week
 2:     3-4 hours
 3:     100% electrostat others are in boxes and stay there for at least the next 3 months 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






  
 By the way, i picked my new KGSS, a used one i bought from someone in this forum.
 So this is almost Headphone-heaven for me.
 As far i can tell right now, it is very nice but there is a hum after the amp is turned on.
  
 Not in the signal, but one could hear it sitting next to the amp.
 So it could be the transformer??  It is a european voltage model build by Spritzer, maybe a year old????
  
 I´m not into electronics and DYS amps.... but my HIFI-dealer,
 which is also a friend of mine (and for all that stuff i bought in his shop, i´m his friend as well)
 will help me for sure.
  
 Maybe one of the specialists in this forum could be so kind to give me a hint to solve this problem in front of asking my hifi-dealer.
  
 Thank´s in advance


----------



## Lonely_Rider

milosz said:


> What?!?.  No posts for 6 days?
> 
> I'll post something.
> 
> ...


 
  
 1. 7
 2. 2 hours
 3. 100%. Damn SR-009! Can't resist them!


----------



## eric65

In my turn, my answers
 1 : 4-5
 2 : 2 hours
 3: 80 % Stax (009) (for the Hi-Fi) ; 20 % HD-600 (for Home Cinema) (NB: I prefer the HD 600 for Home Cinema because I wear glasses and a Stax headphone listening is less comfortable with glasses on the nose ; moreover the perfect sealing of the pads of the 009 becomes problematic with glasses).


----------



## shipsupt

1. How many days a week do you listen to headphones? 7

2. How many minutes or hours in a typical session? 5 days a week I commute listening to IEM's, 1 hour each way, so 2 hours per day. I then listen almost every day at work unless I'm in meetings, so let's say 6 hours average per day all electrostatic. I get a few hours in every night on the home rig and some more extended listening on the weekends... all electrostatic. Sorry, long answer! 

3. What percent of listening is with electrostatic headphones? I'm surprised, my commute time adds up, but I still listen to over 80% stats.


----------



## negura

shipsupt said:


> 1. How many days a week do you listen to headphones? 7
> 
> 2. How many minutes or hours in a typical session? 5 days a week I commute listening to IEM's, 1 hour each way, so 2 hours per day. I then listen almost every day at work unless I'm in meetings, so let's say 6 hours average per day all electrostatic. I get a few hours in every night on the home rig and some more extended listening on the weekends... all electrostatic. Sorry, long answer!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Same thing commuting... IEMs are really great against the good ole Tube noise and people chattering around. The other bonus, after the IEMs, the big stat rig is pure heaven.  I didn't add up the former as they are not technically headphones, they are in ear monitors. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then again, Stax are considered by some earspeakers... oh well I give up.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

1. almost every day. Let's say 5 days a week
 2. from 5 minutes (shot of stat's ecstasy) to 4-5 hours
 3. 90% stats. SR-5 stays on substitute's bench, SR-009 isn't in my main room (got to get a SRM-252s !), SR-Lambda NB is my every day marvel.
 Oh, yes : 10% are for HD600 + O2 amp.
  
 Ali


----------



## arnaud

Wow, I realize I definitely don't listen that much!

1. How many days a week do you listen to headphones? 

2-3 times + commute

2. How many minutes or hours in a typical session?

2-3h + commute

3. What percent of listening is with electrostatic headphones?

100% except commute (iems + dap during commute).


----------



## bearFNF

1. How many days a week do you listen to headphones? 6-7
 2. How many minutes or hours in a typical session? 1 - 5 hours typical sometimes a marathon 10+ hours
 3. What percent of listening is with electrostatic headphones? um...err...0% right now, the LNB are on a shelf not getting much love, PS500 are tops right now (lots of computer time for me), HD800's with movies and TV, JH Roxanne's for zoning out and shutting out the world.
  
 But I will say I am on the edge of a cliff thinking about getting the SR-009 and either a BHSE, or WES...just need a good shove...


----------



## wink

Get the SR-009 and the BHSE


----------



## DefQon

Get the O2 Mk1's and the BHSE


----------



## wink

That too..


----------



## bearFNF

I actually really liked the 009 and BHSE I listened to at CanJam.
 Did not care for the comfort of the O2 mk1 or mk2 and liked the sound and comfort of the 009 more.


----------



## DefQon

bearfnf said:


> I actually really liked the 009 and BHSE I listened to at CanJam.
> Did not care for the comfort of the O2 mk1 or mk2 and liked the sound and comfort of the 009 more.


 
 The Abyss AB1366 is better than the 009's. You know how the logic works here right? The bigger the digits in cost, the better.


----------



## wink

Sennheiser Orpheus with Aristeus amp.
  
 Stax Omega with DiyT2.


----------



## DefQon

Those too...but EOL for the HE90 and Lil Knight is MIA with the boards production for KG's amp's I need to buy a Megatron board


----------



## wink

Unobtanuim headphones matched to unobtanium amp. I just can't seem to find it.
  
 And, if I did, I wouldn't be able to afford it.
  
 After all, they are made from unobtanium...................


----------



## DefQon

Omega's have been popping up a little more often lately though still very scarce. Prices go sky high for them.
  
 The Orpheus on the other hand....there's wiktor if you want a set for $30k - lol


----------



## MacedonianHero

wink said:


> That too..


 
 Get both!


----------



## raulcf77

I cannot think about something better than a pair of SR-009, and I´m powering them with a SRM-717, I don´t want to think about a BHSE.
  
 Any news about that new amp that Stax was designing?


----------



## dukeskd

> SR-Lambda NB is my every day marvel.


 
  
 It has that magical mid-range quality that other cans do not have. IMO, a steal when compared to more pricey headphones, including the current Stax lineup.


----------



## arnaud

raulcf77 said:


> Any news about that new amp that Stax was designing?




From conversation with the sales director last fall, plans were on hold... And indeed, from recent CES event, stax has been working on the other end of the segment with refreshed portable amps/dac combo. 

Stax works on one product at a time, my guess is an sr007mk3 next before the amp... 

As for myself, I am simply waiting for the bhse that's supposed to arrive by xmas. Oh wait, xmas is well past already, not in time for chinese new year either. So, headamp schedule as usual, I am ok with this .


----------



## DefQon

SR-011 by Q2 of 2015.


----------



## eric65

arnaud said:


> From conversation with the sales director last fall, plans were on hold... And indeed, from recent CES event, stax has been working on the other end of the segment with refreshed portable amps/dac combo.
> 
> Stax works on one product at a time, my guess is an sr007mk3 next before the amp...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Christmas 2015 or 2016 for the BHSE? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hypothetical Stax SR 007 mk3 with less or more lightweight membrane ? ( compared to the 007 mk 2.5). Vents is clogged or not? Your pronostic ?
  
 Eric


----------



## kothganesh

Hello everyone:

Just got my Stax 007 mk1 and SR 717. Currently own a bunch of Audez'e HPs and and a very old Stax SR5. Looking forward to the transition.


----------



## ChiAki

raulcf77 said:


> I cannot think about something better than a pair of SR-009, and I´m powering them with a SRM-717, I don´t want to think about a BHSE.
> 
> Any news about that new amp that Stax was designing?


 
 I've heard rumors that a new Stax amp for SR-009 would be quite costly.
  
 Good thing that is you don't have to think about a BHSE anymore


----------



## Ali-Pacha

dukeskd said:


> It has that magical mid-range quality that other cans do not have. IMO, a steal when compared to more pricey headphones, including the current Stax lineup.


 
 The perfect balance between the "all for the mids" sound of more vintage Stax cans (SR-3/5, SR-X) and the extension of recent cans.

 Ali


----------



## ChiAki

karlgerman said:


> 1:     5 days a week
> 2:     3-4 hours
> 3:     100% electrostat others are in boxes and stay there for at least the next 3 months
> 
> ...


 
  
 Karlgerman could you provide your feedbacks on your KGSS comparing to the SRM-600 Limited?


----------



## DefQon

Hey there's always the DIY T2 if you've got the money and feeling brave. It's only about $15k to build one (last I read).


----------



## Ali-Pacha

"Only" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## DefQon

Could be higher now who knows.


----------



## NoPants

probably ~7 if you're smart about choosing parts, if you account for how HV parts prices have risen. That's including one of the fancy one-off cases as well. For 15k you could probably commission someone to build it if you provided all the parts? 
  
 karl that humming is due to the transformer, I believe the lamination of which the transformer is composed is physically vibrating. If you don't hear it at the headphone I wouldn't worry about it. Happens on my kgsshv too. If it really bothers you you can just replace the transformer, or have it potted. 
  
 I've been using the Megatron with my mk1's for a few days now, electrostatics pair surprisingly well with tubes (I guess all-tube would be more appropriate). The way vocals are presented is a nice change of pace from solid-state. It also really makes me wonder how I put up with the treble of dynamic headphones for so many years.


----------



## DefQon

Can you build me one?


----------



## karlgerman

@ NoPants
 Thank you for the hint.
 Spritzer told me the same and i will try to replace it to a larger and quieter unit.
  
 + @ChiAki
  
 As far i can tell right now, the KGSS sounds more crispy in treble and dominant in mid-tones comparing to my SRM600tII.
 This could be complicated to vocal presentation and your dac should be more on the smooth side for a stressless hearing pleasure.
  
 The SRM600 Limited might be a little bit differnt to my Staxamp. 
 What i know is the Limited more powerful and detailed in sub-sounds.
  
 This i recognised very much with the KGSS also. Very powerful comparing to the Stax-amp.
 If you like to hear high level or loud with your headphone and the 006tII, you will reach the limit to distortion easily.
 The 007 mk2 is works good on the KGSS as this headphone is harder to drive and sounds sharper and more precise on this amp.
  
 But it will not reach the resolution of the 009.
  
 Combining the 009 with the KGBHse should the best choice for natural hearing preferences.
 But this i can only confirm after the BlueHawaii will be delivered at last.


----------



## davidsh

What's the general consensus on the gamma pro and srd-7sb mk2? Am considering..


----------



## astrostar59

> As far i can tell right now, the KGSS sounds more crispy in treble and dominant in mid-tones comparing to my SRM600tII.
> This could be complicated to vocal presentation and your dac should be more on the smooth side for a stressless hearing pleasure.


 
 Totally agree with that. I would also look or try out a good nine oversampling DAC with tubes for the ultimate smooth response and great vocals.
 I originally used Over sampling DACs and SS pre-amp, but have good all that out of my system now. It's tubes in the DAC and Pre-Amp.
  
 I know the KGSS, LL and BHSE are great headphone amps, but it could work out cheaper to look at the front end. I have a very good tubed pre-amp feeding
 my Stax SRM-717 and SR-007 phones, and they have lots of volume and bass with no distortion or loss of dynamics.


----------



## astrostar59

You looked at the Lambda Nova Signature with an SRM-323? Can be picked up quite cheap and will be a strong setup on a budget.


----------



## davidsh

^Referring to something specific?


----------



## astrostar59

Sorry. I run an Audio Note DAC 3.1 SE, and an Audio Note M3 pre-amp. Both have valve regulated PS and run 2 pairs of 5687 output tubes. The pre-amp is capacitor free at the oputput as it uses a transformer 33/1 step down. And the DAC though it has capacitors on the output has V-Caps Teflons. It is very transparent and not bloomy or tubey. The bass is very strong and organic. The SRM-717 is run flat out as class A bypassing the volume control. Front end is a Mac Mini 2013 with Firewire external drive and AIF files, with an M2Tech full stack as USB - SPDIF. 
  
 The only downside I have found is I can only use 96K max resolution files. But 99% of my music is ripped from CDs using XLD at Red-Book. I did buy some high res from HD Tracks
 but I was convinced they were upsampled, as they were no better. RedBook is so good on this set-up I am very content.,.,.,,


----------



## James-uk

astrostar59 said:


> Sorry. I run an Audio Note DAC 3.1 SE, and an Audio Note M3 pre-amp. Both have valve regulated PS and run 2 pairs of 5687 output tubes. The pre-amp is capacitor free at the oputput as it uses a transformer 33/1 step down. And the DAC though it has capacitors on the output has V-Caps Teflons. It is very transparent and not bloomy or tubey. The bass is very strong and organic. The SRM-717 is run flat out as class A bypassing the volume control. Front end is a Mac Mini 2013 with Firewire external drive and AIF files, with an M2Tech full stack as USB - SPDIF.
> 
> The only downside I have found is I can only use 96K max resolution files. But 99% of my music is ripped from CDs using XLD at Red-Book. I did buy some high res from HD Tracks
> but I was convinced they were upsampled, as they were no better. RedBook is so good on this set-up I am very content.,.,.,,



Upsampled or not you won't get better sound than 16/44 cd. You should be content . You already have the best .


----------



## realmassy

james-uk said:


> Upsampled or not you won't get better sound than 16/44 cd. You should be content . You already have the best .



Please...not here!! 
Don't want to read more about redbook vs HD, especially on the STAX thread


----------



## James-uk

realmassy said:


> Please...not here!!
> Don't want to read more about redbook vs HD, especially on the STAX thread



Especially on the STAX thread? Is this thread immune from logic and reason? I was simply stating the facts. Just like the fact that e stats are the best headphones. It's a fact not a debate.


----------



## NoPants

defqon said:


> Can you build me one?


 
 maybe after I build myself one (which isn't happening anytime soon), but I skimmed over the whole unobtanium materials thing which seems to stop most people in their tracks. It also becomes a massive undertaking if you want to assume responsibility for the machining as well- something which I'm not willing to do for something this complex...


----------



## DefQon

Yeah the casing and enclosure is a major PITA process for any build, let alone the mammoth size and task the DIY T2 is.


----------



## chinsettawong

Try Megatron. It's all tube amp, and a lot easier to build.


----------



## eric65

defqon said:


> Yeah the casing and enclosure is a major PITA process for any build, let alone the mammoth size and task the DIY T2 is.


 
  
 Still more gigantic than a DIY T2. Here is the last prototype of a DIY headphone amplifier electrostatic (here for a modest SR-007 mk2) with high-voltage Tantalum tubes.
 Prototype made by the designer of Demograf, Dimitry.
 Photo sent by my Russian friend, Alex with this comment :
_" Dmitry (Demograf) is now building new high-voltage amp for e-stats.  Couple of pictures of the prototype are attached.  The main unit has the “shining” high-voltage tantalum tubes, the power unit is separate – stands next to it.  007mk2 headphones are used for tests – because they are the hardest to drive.  The preliminary results of the sound of the prototype are great "._


----------



## milosz

I have been working on a DIY T2 for 2 years. From time to time other projects move the T2 aside, I am working slow and patient on the T2.  The electronics are not hard to build, but I want to create striking casework and I am being very patient and drawing design after design to come up with just the right look.  I like polished copper so there will be some copper. The heatsinks are normal black aluminum and they will be exposed, forming the sides. I think the top will be made of black glass, holes drilled for the tubes, with chunky polished copper trim around the tube openings.   There will also be some exotic wood on the front - padauk, bubinga, lacewood or cocobolo- I am going to use the color of the wood to visually tie the copper front panel and the black glass top panel.
  
 Here's a piece of cocobolo that I have, it's of the rosewood family (Dalbergia retusa) - you can see how the colors in the wood would visually tie the 1/4" thick copper front panel to the black glass top.  Only thing is, this wood doesn't have much "depth" or "fire" to the grain.  No chatoyance.  It is quite pretty though.

  
  
 For the level control knob I have this...
  
 I cut the volume knob out of tigers-eye, a semiprecious mineral....
 Those aren't cracks, they are quartz inclusions
 The whole thing is polished glass-smooth
 You can't really appreciate how light "flows" through this material in a static photo.
 This will have a narrow base machined from copper or polished brass.
  

  
 On the inside I have a Goldpoint attenuator, etc.
  
 The sad thing is that circumstances may force me to sell it shortly after I finish-  I've become disabled and can no longer work.  At any rate, creating something nice is a joy in itself.  More than half the fun, for me.  Way more.


----------



## DefQon

But if you look at it, he is using NOS capacitors, those back ones are mean looking Russian NOS cap's, I'm sure you can substitute all those big caps for regular modern Panasonics or alike and the amp footprint will be much smaller. 
  
 What tubes is he running?


----------



## eric65

defqon said:


> But if you look at it, he is using NOS capacitors, those back ones are mean looking Russian NOS cap's, I'm sure you can substitute all those big caps for regular modern Panasonics or alike and the amp footprint will be much smaller.
> 
> What tubes is he running?


 
 I am beginner in this matter; I've just received this picture and this comment.
 Maybe the forum experts will arrive to identify these tubes in looking closely at the photograph of original.


----------



## DefQon

eric65 said:


> I am beginner in this matter; I've just received this picture and this comment.
> Maybe the forum experts will arrive to identify these tubes in looking closely at the photograph of original.


 
 Ok, I just realised those two big tubes are used for rectifying in the PS with all the transformers, I'm more interested in what tube his running for the amp part, the two brightly glowing ones sure as hell not 845's as they don't have leads coming out from the top, I think the Stax mafia are interested in any tubes out there able to be pushed through 700vdc+ on the plates for there next project without going to complicated, last I read that is till either KG or Birgir can chime in.
  
 What's Dimitry's website? If he has one.


----------



## Rawdawg3234

Hey there,
 I'm looking for a decent speaker amp to pair with my sr3/srd-5.
I'd like it to be relatively small for my desktop and under $200
So far the only good candidate is the emotiva mini x .

Also could use any advise about stax products as I plan I upgrading down the line.


----------



## realmassy

james-uk said:


> Especially on the STAX thread? Is this thread immune from logic and reason? I was simply stating the facts. Just like the fact that e stats are the best headphones. It's a fact not a debate.



You were not stating any fact, but your opinion, and we are OT


----------



## davidsh

rawdawg3234 said:


> Hey there,
> I'm looking for a decent speaker amp to pair with my sr3/srd-5.
> I'd like it to be relatively small for my desktop and under $200
> So far the only good candidate is the emotiva mini x .
> ...


 
 Well, the emo works fine with the energizers.. Can't really tell you much more than that.


----------



## FrankCooter

defqon said:


> But if you look at it, he is using NOS capacitors, those back ones are mean looking Russian NOS cap's, I'm sure you can substitute all those big caps for regular modern Panasonics or alike and the amp footprint will be much smaller.
> 
> What tubes is he running?


 
  
 Those are Eimac 35T's (or Russian copies). They have a mu of about 40, take a minimum of about 700V on the plate, and have a very high rp . Since there is only one per channel, I'm assuming they're loaded with some sort of  center-tapped choke (it would have to be a "beast" both in terms of inductance and voltage/current ability ) and then capacitor-coupled to the headphones. Not the most practical approach to a DHT electrostatic amp, but If you don't mind the caps in the signal path, or the extreme power requirements, no reason it shouldn't work.
  
 I have a  transformer-coupled 845 electrostatic amp in development. It's  a huge project, but  a bit more "real world" than this one.


----------



## eric65

defqon said:


> Ok, I just realised those two big tubes are used for rectifying in the PS with all the transformers, I'm more interested in what tube his running for the amp part, the two brightly glowing ones sure as hell not 845's as they don't have leads coming out from the top, I think the Stax mafia are interested in any tubes out there able to be pushed through 700vdc+ on the plates for there next project without going to complicated, last I read that is till either KG or Birgir can chime in.
> 
> What's Dimitry's website? If he has one.


 
  
 Try to contact by PM Oingo Boingo = Alex (Alexander) (the owner of the Demograf as well as a beautiful collection of headphones) ; Alex seems well know Dimitri and his past achievements; Maybe can you it inquire about all these tubes (much more than me)
  
 Here some links on Alex (Oingo Boingo) and Dimitry
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/60#post_9737391
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/75#post_9737962


----------



## FrankCooter

As long as we're discussing "home-brew" DHT electrostatic amps, here's my 845 based amp. It's a single-ended 3 stage design. 1st stage is a CCS loaded 6N7 direct-coupled to a 45. 2nd stage is a 45 driving an interstage transformer connected to the 845 grid. The 845 output drives a custom high level Electra-Print phase-splitting transformer.Running the 845 with fixed-bias at 650V@60mA. Power supply was originally based on mercury rectifiers, but am currently working on a hybrid solid-state/tube regulated supply. Not the most practical project, but definitely a lot of fun and a completely different presentation from most other electrostatic amps.


----------



## kevin gilmore

a thing of beauty for sure.
  
 frank has retro down to a science.


----------



## Lornecherry

That thing looks like a classic 30's radio. Very art deco. Refreshing to see something that doesn't try to like like the latest smartphone.


----------



## DefQon

@eric and frank: thanks for the clarification.

Yeh Franks builds are really something I've seen those pics takeb at Canjam years ago which he brought his homebrew creations to. Is the 845 a PITA to work with I've read that it does take quite some considerations into the design to have 845 done right, also what do you mean by DHT?


----------



## arnaud

Directly Heated Triode, don't ask me anything else!!


----------



## DefQon

Lol google.

What I meant is when would you need it, why would you need it and what are things to consider when you using it.


----------



## arnaud

I figured it was bizarre you'd know about the tube and not the principle of operation . Talking about googling, for the inepts like myself: http://www.diy-audio-guide.com/direct-heated-triodes.html


----------



## DefQon

I didn't say I know about the tube till Frank said what it was?


----------



## kothganesh

davidsh said:


> Well, the emo works fine with the energizers.. Can't really tell you much more than that.



+1. I use the Emotiva with the SR5. Good but not great. I heard the SR5 with a vintage Luxman receiver. That was great.


----------



## milosz

rawdawg3234 said:


> Hey there,
> I'm looking for a decent speaker amp to pair with my sr3/srd-5.
> I'd like it to be relatively small for my desktop and under $200
> So far the only good candidate is the emotiva mini x .
> ...


 
 A lot of people like the T- amp stuff- based on the Tripath chips.  For the price ($90) , the Dayton Audio DTA-100 is a damned good 50 watt/ channel amp.  Really you don't need that much power for an SRD-5  so you might try the Lepai LP-2020A+  20 watt/ channel tripath amp from Parts Express for $24 (!!)  These are switching amps, and I think they sound better than many of the solid state amps out there; not quite as nice as the better class-A amps but better than almost all mid-fi receivers, integrated amps etc. For $24  you can hardly go wrong.  If you don't like it on your SRD-5, you can use it as a spare / troubleshooting / utility amp. (The Lepai is the amp I would use if I wanted to stick to a budget.)  Many listeners have said that the Tripath amps have a "class A-like"  sound.  I have a DTA-100, and I agree.  Sounds better than it has a right to at the price.
  
 If you are capable of some light D-I-Y, another route would be to use a pair of the 10-watt class A solid state amp boards from eBay seller jims_audio, the amp boards sell for about $57 a pair and you'll need   *+*  and *- *12-to-18 volt supplies at 5 amps or so per rail.  These are VERY nice sounding amps, I have a bunch. For $150 all-in (amp boards, power supply, casework from Par-Metal etc) you could have a high-end 10 watt/ channel amp, along with the satisfaction of building something yourself.  I use 5 of these for L/R/C/LR/RR speakers for my surround speaker setup in my "computer office." (They also help heat the room- class A amps always run hot.)
  
 AS far as a dedicated electrostatic-only amp for a future upgrade, I can highly recommend the Stax SRM-T1. It's a VERY GOOD sounding amp, has both low- and high-bias output jacks, and there are many of them around so they come on the market fairly regularly. I think it sounds just about as good as ANY Stax brand amp, save the rare T2.  The newer Stax tube based amps sound a LITTLE better, but not really THAT MUCH better, and given the price, the SRM-T1  is a clear winner in terms of sound per dollar.
  
 Upgrading from the SRM-T1  is an expensive proposition. To get a MARKED increase in sound quality, you need to go to a KGSS or KGSSHV amp, Blue Hawaii, etc.  $$$$$$$$


----------



## milosz

Boy, I wish I could work wood as well as Frank Cooter.  I do OK with metal, and can design some circuits, but I can't do joinery for the life of me, even though I have access to a full custom hardwood cabinet-maker's shop. Even making a chassis base with 4-corner miter joints, which is fairly simple joinery, by the time I cut the final 45 degree miter things are _just a little_ out of kilter, either in terms of length or angle, leaving a slight gap in one corner no matter how much I tighten the clamps when gluing. Now, in my defense this wood is bubinga, very very hard and dense, so that I needed to apply considerable pressure to the miter saw when cutting; this pressure distorted the geometry of the saw ever so slightly.... also I used urethane glue which expands in the joint as it cures..... yeah! That's what it was- that's the ticket!
  
 HAHAHAHA!
  

 Pretty wood, though-  bubinga.  This is a phono preamp.


----------



## Rawdawg3234

What a coincidence! I might have an srm t1 I can get my hands on.

Thanks for the reply I'm gonna look into all options. Especially the DIY. Oh and a sub $30 amp? SOLD.


----------



## Rawdawg3234

milosz said:


> A lot of people like the T- amp stuff- based on the Tripath chips.  For the price ($90) , the Dayton Audio DTA-100 is a damned good 50 watt/ channel amp.  Really you don't need that much power for an SRD-5  so you might try the Lepai LP-2020A+
> 20 watt/ channel tripath amp from Parts Express for $24 (!!)  These are switching amps, and I think they sound better than many of the solid state amps out there; not quite as nice as the better class-A amps but better than almost all mid-fi receivers, integrated amps etc. For $24  you can hardly go wrong.  If you don't like it on your SRD-5, you can use it as a spare / troubleshooting / utility amp. (The Lepai is the amp I would use if I wanted to stick to a budget.)  Many listeners have said that the Tripath amps have a "class A-like"  sound.  I have a DTA-100, and I agree.  Sounds better than it has a right to at the price.
> 
> If you are capable of some light D-I-Y, another route would be to use a pair of the 10-watt class A solid state amp boards from eBay seller jims_audio, the amp boards sell for about $57 a pair and you'll need   *+*  and *-* 12-to-18 volt supplies at 5 amps or so per rail.  These are VERY nice sounding amps, I have a bunch. For $150 all-in (amp boards, power supply, casework from Par-Metal etc) you could have a high-end 10 watt/ channel amp, along with the satisfaction of building something yourself.  I use 5 of these for L/R/C/LR/RR speakers for my surround speaker setup in my "computer office." (They also help heat the room- class A amps always run hot.)
> ...


----------



## gilency

Frank, you are the best.


----------



## milosz

2 channel 10 watt class A amplifier - *suitable for driving Stax SRD-5. SRD-7  etc.*  Also works well with speakers, although power is limited to 10/ channel watts at 8 ohms. 20 watts/ channel at 4 ohms.
  
 Pair of  assembled 10-watt class-A MOSFET   boards from eBay seller jims_audio  CLICK* HERE*
  
 Power supply board from jims_audio click* HERE *contact jims_audio via eBay, they will give you a list of the parts needed to stuff this board.
  
 Standoffs  / hardware to mount boards to chassis from eBay click *HERE*
  
 Neutrik RCA input jacks, 2 needed  MOUSER  click *HERE*
  
*2*A slo-blo 5x20 mm fuse, MOUSER get 2 or 3, good to have spares Click* HERE*
  
 Four TO-220 transistor mount kits MOUSER  click* HERE*
  
 IEC  AC input jack w/ fuseholder Parts Express click* HERE*
  
 On-Off Switch  Parts Express Click* HERE*
  
 Two  HS-0606-b heatsinks from PAR-METAL  Click *HERE*
  
 Pick a size  Par-Metal chassis that will fit.  I suggest you buy all the parts first, and then collect them together on a desk and measure how large a space they require, and then order the appropriate size from Par-Metal in your favorite color.  Click *HERE*
  
 You will also need:
  
 TOOLS - power drill, files, screwdrivers, soldering pencil, small diagonal cutters or nippers, needlenose pliers
  
 OTHER SUPPLIES  - the thinnest 60/40 rosin-core solder you can find, some electrical tape to put around the bare AC line connections inside the amp, some misc screws and nuts etc.  
  
 To mount the heatsinks, place them over the ventilation slots in the chassis, and drill holes from the bottom of the chassis into the heat sinks, then use some sheet metal / self tapping screws to mount the heat sinks to the chassis.  What you want is for air to be able to rise through the ventilation slots on the bottom of the chassis, pass over the fins of the heatsink, and then rise out of the vent slots on the top cover of the chassis. So you want to place the fins so that they have the most exposure to the vent holes possible given the space.
  
 You can also find some fancier chassis on eBay that have heatsinks built in to their sides, if you prefer.
  
 ======Additions======
 (Stuff I forgot)
  
 5-way binding post output terminals - Parts Express - click *HERE*
  
 Hook up wire - I suggest using some 18 ga. Teflon insulated wire.  Most hookup wire is 22 ga, but I think here you have a bit higher current on the DC side, so 18 ga might be a good choice.  Probably OK to use 22 ga. wire from the AC power inlet to the on/off switch and from the switch to the primary of the power transformer, but I would use the heavier 18 ga wire for the power supply connections to the amp boards, and for the speaker output wires from the amp boards to the binding posts.  Search eBay for some Teflon insulated wire, you don't need much, perhaps 5 feet.  Teflon is best because the insulation doesn't melt or burn when you solder it. 
  
 You might want an LED pilot light, see Mouser *HERE*
  
 The power transformer I originally specified might be a little too small.  This one from Mouser would be better, 30 V CT, _150_ VA  Click* HERE*
  
*=====**Tips**====*
  
*#1 TIP - DO NOT WORK ON THE AMPLIFIER WHEN IT IS PLUGGED IN TO THE POWER LINE!!!! *Close the chassis up before plugging the thing in!
  
 I suggest wiring the power supply first, without connecting it to the amp boards. The close the chassis up, plug the thing in and hit the power switch. If the pilot light LED lights up and stays lit,  then disconnect the power cord, open the amp chassis up and wire the power supply to one channel at a time.....
  
 The hardest part of this build will be cutting the rectangular hole in the chassis to mount the IEC power inlet/fuseholder.  My suggestion for this is to make a cardboard template the proper size, and trace around it with a pencil onto the chassis where you want to mount the power cord. Now, drill the largest holes you can drill that fit inside the outline.  After these are drilled, use a file or a chassis nibbling tool to enlarge and square the hole. (see *http://www.parts-express.com/nickel-plated-nibbling-tool--360-022* )  The AC power inlet is press-fit. You push it in to hole until the thing snaps in place.
  
 This => *http://makezine.com/2006/04/10/how-to-solder-resources/*  is a soldering tutorial. Practice a little before you build, if you're not used to soldering. 
  
 In wiring the AC line,  connect the hot lead from the AC input socket to the fuse and then to the power switch in series with the HOT lead going to the power transformer's primary; and don't forget to connect the power cord's safety ground wire to the chassis.  See* http://www.ampmaker.com/pp-18-chassis-wiring-part-3-1043-0.html*
  
 The output transistors of the amplifiers need to be bolted to the heatsink, but the transistors must not make electrical contact with the aluminum metal of the heatsink- that's why you use the TO-220 mounting kits. ("TO-220" is the standard designation for this type of rectangular, tab-mount transistor)  See *http://www.turkiyefagor.com/semi/pdf/rultiris.pdf*  for instruction on how to mount the transistors.
  
 Note that this is a POWER AMP; if you want to add a volume control to it, I suggest a 50k audio-taper stereo pot like the Alps Blue Velvet, available on eBay for about $16 if you shop around ( like *THIS *) - and although the Blue Velvet has a reputation for quality, reliability and close channel balance, it is perfectly acceptable to use a less expensive pot like *THIS* one from Parts Express for $2.40;  you'll need some kind of knob for the volume control like THIS budget one from Parts Express or *THIS* nicely machined one from Mouser.  ( or pick one out from *THIS* selection guide from Mouser; be sure it will fit the 1/4" shaft of the volume control.)  *HERE* is a tutorial on how to wire the volume control.
  
 You might want to get a book like *Circuitbuilding Do-It-Yourself For Dummies *from your local library if you've never built any electronics.  It's really not that hard to do, but there is a bit of craft involved.


----------



## yawg

karlgerman said:


> 1:     5 days a week
> 2:     3-4 hours
> 3:     100% electrostat others are in boxes and stay there for at least the next 3 months
> 
> ...


 
 I had the same problem with my Cayin tubed DAC. Mechanical hum. I solved it by removing the mounting screws of the transformator and packing it in bubble plastic w/o screws. It;s dead quiet now.


----------



## yawg

3x0 said:


> Thanks; this is just the type of answer I was seeking. I don't suppose it was converted as I received it brand new.
> 
> I guess the other option would be to open it up with the intent of switching to 120V, with the potential of being pleasantly surprised.
> 
> It sounded "better" than either my 120V SRM-T1 or SRM-T1S ever did, but seems significantly less sensitive on the dial than the latter of the two. Guess it's time to crack it open...


 
 My US-made Empire Troubador turntable  has a sticker of US voltage/frequ. but in fact is their export model for Europe. I'm living in Holland and ordered it in 1975 new through an American PX outlet. So sometimes the statements on the box are not correct. I wonder about Stax though. They are usually very thorough.


----------



## ardilla

SR-009 question:

Has the 009 been unchanged since launch or has there been small revisions?


----------



## DefQon

ardilla said:


> SR-009 question:
> 
> Has the 009 been unchanged since launch or has there been small revisions?


 
 No revisions.


----------



## ChiAki

ardilla said:


> SR-009 question:
> 
> Has the 009 been unchanged since launch or has there been small revisions?


 
 Nope. SR-009 has always been the same.


----------



## okw3188

Instead of going through 90+ish page of discussion, I would like to seek advice from anyone with experience on SRM-600TS amp driving Airbow SC-21. Currently, I am using Woo Audio WA2 with Beyer T1.


----------



## mangler

Defqon, I think I read in in the LCD2 thread that you will be getting a pair of 009s. You've tried out so many headphones, so I'd be wipe curious to know your impressions. Do you plan to share them?


----------



## mangler

Here's a semi-hypothetical: if you had to choose only 1 combo, what would you rather have, a well driven 007 Mk2 ( not Mk1, just because the Mk2 is the current production and more readily available, and driven by a KGSSHV or BHSE) or a 009 with a mid-tier amp (for all available e-stat headphones, that is) , something like the 323s, Woo GES, srm-007. If you get either headphone from PJ then I think the prices are similar (1800 + 2500-5600 = 4300- 7400 for 007 setup, and 3800 + 700- 2000= 4500-5800).


----------



## negura

The 009+midtier amplifier. Why: The 009s are not hard to drive to sound great and the 007MK2s aren't that great to begin with.


----------



## cjfrbw

frankcooter said:


> As long as we're discussing "home-brew" DHT electrostatic amps, here's my 845 based amp. It's a single-ended 3 stage design. 1st stage is a CCS loaded 6N7 direct-coupled to a 45. 2nd stage is a 45 driving an interstage transformer connected to the 845 grid. The 845 output drives a custom high level Electra-Print phase-splitting transformer.Running the 845 with fixed-bias at 650V@60mA. Power supply was originally based on mercury rectifiers, but am currently working on a hybrid solid-state/tube regulated supply. Not the most practical project, but definitely a lot of fun and a completely different presentation from most other electrostatic amps.


 
 My current favorite is my own SR 3n with 5n membranes driven by a Wavac 572 50 watt single ended amplifier using 572b tubes with a normal bias Stax SRD 7 using new production dyna z565 trannies.
  
 For my taste this setup is much better than the 009/blue hawaii/cavalli combos or the Abyss/Cavalli Liquid Gold setups I have heard many times now at shows.  Deep, rich, fast, nuanced bass, transparent midrange, lovely upper mids and highs. It is reminiscent of HE90 sound but faster and deeper.
  
  I think I like the Abyss/Cavalli LG better than any of the 009 setups I have heard, I just could not bond withe the 009/Blue Hawaii sound for some reason.


----------



## rubenpp

cjfrbw said:


> My current favorite is my own SR 3n with 5n membranes driven by a Wavac 572 50 watt single ended amplifier using 572b tubes with a normal bias Stax SRD 7 using new production dyna z565 trannies.
> 
> For my taste this setup is much better than the 009/blue hawaii/cavalli combos or the Abyss/Cavalli Liquid Gold setups I have heard many times now at shows.  Deep, rich, fast, nuanced bass, transparent midrange, lovely upper mids and highs. It is reminiscent of HE90 sound but faster and deeper.
> 
> I think I like the Abyss/Cavalli LG better than any of the 009 setups I have heard, I just could not bond withe the 009/Blue Hawaii sound for some reason.


 
 Would be nice if you could bring it to the SF Bay area meet this coming Feb 16.


----------



## cjfrbw

I did bring my Manley neo 300b preamp with SRD 7/Stax 507/ultrasone Ed8 a couple of years ago.  I still use that setup, but the 507 were defective with holes in the mylar, which I discovered later.  I replaced the mylar myself, modified a SRD 5 with old iron Stancaor trannies, and use the 507 with normal bias and the Manley neo 300b now at another location,  That is also a great sound, but the Wavac setup is more luxurious sounding, bass-ier and more powerful.
  
 The Wavac setup is in Santa Cruz and I really don't know if I want to dismantle it and lug it up there this time.  It might be redundant, anyway, if messr. Cooter is bringing his 845 rig.


----------



## Audio Jester

This ( http://www.technologyreview.com/view/512496/first-graphene-audio-speaker-easily-outperforms-traditional-designs/ ) was posted in the HD800 thread. 
Might be the start of a new Stax product??


----------



## dude_500

audio jester said:


> This ( http://www.technologyreview.com/view/512496/first-graphene-audio-speaker-easily-outperforms-traditional-designs/ ) was posted in the HD800 thread.
> Might be the start of a new Stax product??


 
  
 It says this driver's diameter is only 5 millimeters, so this would be more IEM sized driver. I wonder if the graphene material can be tensioned sufficiently to keep a large electrostatic driver stable. I've only heard about these tiny little drivers thus far.


----------



## Audio Jester

dude_500 said:


> It says this driver's diameter is only 5 millimeters, so this would be more IEM sized driver. I wonder if the graphene material can be tensioned sufficiently to keep a large electrostatic driver stable. I've only heard about these tiny little drivers thus far.



True, it is in its infancy. The scientist in me gets a bit excited by this sort of thing.


----------



## rubenpp

cjfrbw said:


> The Wavac setup is in Santa Cruz and I really don't know if I want to dismantle it and lug it up there this time.  It might be redundant, anyway, if messr. Cooter is bringing his 845 rig.


 
  
 I understand .


----------



## DefQon

mangler said:


> Defqon, I think I read in in the LCD2 thread that you will be getting a pair of 009s. You've tried out so many headphones, so I'd be wipe curious to know your impressions. Do you plan to share them?


 
  
 Yep pretty much, have already heard the 009 and liked it. Debating on whether or not to order a BHSE through our local dealer or direct from Justin but our currency exchange is so crap so I'm just waiting for the timing to be right. Was originally planning for a BHSE + O2 MK1 but I think I'm closer to getting some speakers with that amount at the moment, any spare $$ will go into my unfinished KGSSHV and the Megatron amp (which is right up on the same tier as the BHSE/DIYT2 straight from KG's mouth) but LilKnight seems MIA and he does the board runs. 
  
 I will probably share some impressions but most likely not as 100 others have done so here already, my goal is to rid of myself from this place. Too much unnecessary noise and I need peace.
  
 Would love to see the day Schitt get's into the electrostatic market, one of the few and truer manufacturers doing things just right.


----------



## DefQon

mangler said:


> Here's a semi-hypothetical: if you had to choose only 1 combo, what would you rather have, a well driven 007 Mk2 ( not Mk1, just because the Mk2 is the current production and more readily available, and driven by a KGSSHV or BHSE) or a 009 with a mid-tier amp (for all available e-stat headphones, that is) , something like the 323s, Woo GES, srm-007. If you get either headphone from PJ then I think the prices are similar (1800 + 2500-5600 = 4300- 7400 for 007 setup, and 3800 + 700- 2000= 4500-5800).


 
 Only thing I haven't heard in that list is the GES, I'd take a Balanced Dynahi + HD800 over any of those. The 009's are easy to drive but if your goal is spend cheap on amplification say a 323S which drives the 009 just fine but lacking in areas when you move up to a KGSSHV or so with the 009's you may as well not buy the 009's but this is if you plan on keeping the cheap amp as a permanent solution. I'd think you have to pay more attention to your source for the 009 than amplification due to the neutral bright tonality. O2 MK2 I found has too much boom and bloom with the mids and is uncalled for on some genres that have just a tad bit of mid bass going on. Now I've only heard the MK2 once at my dealer and completely far apart to the first time I heard the MK1's so I'm not so sure if the MK2 are as hard to drive properly as the MK1's.


----------



## arturo71

mangler said:


> Here's a semi-hypothetical: if you had to choose only 1 combo, what would you rather have, a well driven 007 Mk2 ( not Mk1, just because the Mk2 is the current production and more readily available, and driven by a KGSSHV or BHSE) or a 009 with a mid-tier amp (for all available e-stat headphones, that is) , something like the 323s, Woo GES, srm-007. If you get either headphone from PJ then I think the prices are similar (1800 + 2500-5600 = 4300- 7400 for 007 setup, and 3800 + 700- 2000= 4500-5800).


 
 I concur with negura: 009 plus mid-tier amp. I reported about a 4-way comparison of mine before in this thread. However it all depends on which sound signature you like best, the 007 or the 009 one. The ampli will not change that.


----------



## RiStaR

defqon said:


> Yep pretty much, have already heard the 009 and liked it. Debating on whether or not to order a BHSE through our local dealer or direct from Justin but our currency exchange is so crap so I'm just waiting for the timing to be right. Was originally planning for a BHSE + O2 MK1 but I think I'm closer to getting some speakers with that amount at the moment, any spare $$ will go into my unfinished KGSSHV and the Megatron amp (which is right up on the same tier as the BHSE/DIYT2 straight from KG's mouth) but LilKnight seems MIA and he does the board runs.
> 
> I will probably share some impressions but most likely not as 100 others have done so here already, my goal is to rid of myself from this place. Too much unnecessary noise and I need peace.
> 
> Would love to see the day Schitt get's into the electrostatic market, one of the few and truer manufacturers doing things just right.


 
  
 IMO just focus on the Megatron... apart from sounding better, you'd probably get it up faster because there're a lot less parts to worry about. Additionally, do go offboard for the PS instead of the onboard sinks (I would recommend this as it can get quite hot in Oz, too).
  
 If you do buy the BHSE, I'd be very interested for you to do the comparison, too


----------



## mangler

Thanks everybody. I'll track down your shoot out arturo1, it sounds like it would be quite helpful.


----------



## mangler

Id love to hear about your Megatron as well, DefQon. I was following that thread but it was dead for a while and I just stopped checking. It's been a while, so I should go back  It sounds like you'll be over there more than here though, which seems to be a move being made by many stax owners.


----------



## 3X0

defqon said:


> Yep pretty much, have already heard the 009 and liked it. Debating on whether or not to order a BHSE through our local dealer or direct from Justin but our currency exchange is so crap so I'm just waiting for the timing to be right. Was originally planning for a BHSE + O2 MK1 but I think I'm closer to getting some speakers with that amount at the moment, any spare $$ will go into my unfinished KGSSHV and the Megatron amp (which is right up on the same tier as the BHSE/DIYT2 straight from KG's mouth) but LilKnight seems MIA and he does the board runs.
> 
> I will probably share some impressions but most likely not as 100 others have done so here already, my goal is to rid of myself from this place. Too much unnecessary noise and I need peace.
> 
> Would love to see the day Schitt get's into the electrostatic market, one of the few and truer manufacturers doing things just right.




Not going back to your original Omega?


----------



## mangler

defqon said:


> ...
> Would love to see the day Schitt get's into the electrostatic market, one of the few and truer manufacturers doing things just right.




Bad news on that front. Just yesterday I asked Schiit about whether or not they ever plan on making an amp, and here is the response I got:

" Nope, no plans to do a stat amp. Too small of a market, too many politics." 

Bummer


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

mangler said:


> Bad news on that front. Just yesterday I asked Schiit about whether or not they ever plan on making an amp, and here is the response I got:
> 
> " Nope, no plans to do a stat amp. Too small of a market, too many politics."
> 
> Bummer


 

 Electrostatics are the niche of the niche, I can understand them...


----------



## mangler

Me neither, but I was holding out hope  I bet they would do well though, given their typical price/performance ratio. Even if they did smaller runs that translated into higher prices, i bet their amp would still be more affordable than what's out there (unless you can DIY).


----------



## Ali-Pacha

amanand88keys said:


> Electrostatics are the niche of the niche, I can understand them...


 
 Why not...but politics ? Anything to do with Stax's patents ?

 Ali


----------



## 3X0

ali-pacha said:


> Why not...but politics ? Anything to do with Stax's patents ?
> 
> Ali


 
 The elephant in the room is that sales performance of electrostatic products can be critically influenced by the opinions of a few key thought leaders.
  
 An interesting case study may be made if you evaluate the sales price (both new and used) of a KG design versus other designers/manufacturers over the past several years. Some might argue the price hike is from rarity and/or component cost but I believe it is something different.


----------



## darinf

3x0 said:


> The elephant in the room is that sales performance of electrostatic products can be critically influenced by the opinions of a few key thought leaders.


 
 I had no idea. Good to know... I guess you could say that about many products here on Head-Fi. A negative review with a niche product can have a big effect if most of the potential buyers find their way to Head-Fi.


----------



## DefQon

ristar said:


> IMO just focus on the Megatron... apart from sounding better, you'd probably get it up faster because there're a lot less parts to worry about. Additionally, do go offboard for the PS instead of the onboard sinks (I would recommend this as it can get quite hot in Oz, too).
> 
> If you do buy the BHSE, I'd be very interested for you to do the comparison, too




It's all planned out to be purchased in the future so it's all good. I would buy a set of Megatron boards if Lilknight would respond on the other site I'm not reluctant to drop the $ on boards knowing that I won't receive them in a long time. And I still need to find time to complete my offboard KGSSHV lol.

Speaking offboard PSU is this one of the new mini KGSSHV psu board or another one I'm completely not familiar with?




3x0 said:


> Not going back to your original Omega?




Nope too risky owning them.


----------



## 3X0

defqon said:


> Nope too risky owning them.


 
 Haven't you and your friend experienced no problems in your respective ownerships of them?


----------



## NoPants

defqon said:


> It's all planned out to be purchased in the future so it's all good. I would buy a set of Megatron boards if Lilknight would respond on the other site I'm not reluctant to drop the $ on boards knowing that I won't receive them in a long time. And I still need to find time to complete my offboard KGSSHV lol.
> 
> Speaking offboard PSU is this one of the new mini KGSSHV psu board or another one I'm completely not familiar with?
> Nope too risky owning them.


 
  
 You should note that ristar's build is modded for more current or something to that effect. If you use the standard values in the mini psu all you have to do is omit the 2n3904 transistors (deregulate the supply). There's no need to offboard the psu in this case. You can also run the amplifier at -/+400V for less heat.


----------



## ardilla

Any news on the rumored new Stax top amp?


----------



## DefQon

3x0 said:


> Haven't you and your friend experienced no problems in your respective ownerships of them?




Yeah I've been told it's started gather channel imbalance with the left side being bit louder. His got a KGSSHV wired up with 2 mono pots for each channel so it's all fine.



nopants said:


> You should note that ristar's build is modded for more current or something to that effect. If you use the standard values in the mini psu all you have to do is omit the 2n3904 transistors (deregulate the supply). There's no need to offboard the psu in this case. You can also run the amplifier at -/+400V for less heat.





Thanks for that I'll sus the diy sections again on the other site.
My current issue is I need a custom wound trafo for the the PSU for the old KGSSHV that has 230v primary, any good non expensive recommendations for places? Sumr runs a bit expensive for me.


----------



## NoPants

defqon said:


> Yeah I've been told it's started gather channel imbalance with the left side being bit louder. His got a KGSSHV wired up with 2 mono pots for each channel so it's all fine.
> Thanks for that I'll sus the diy sections again on the other site.
> My current issue is I need a custom wound trafo for the the PSU for the old KGSSHV that has 230v primary, any good non expensive recommendations for places? Sumr runs a bit expensive for me.


 
 http://www.edcorusa.com/p/681/xpwr084 , I haven't found a good solution to 450V without a lot of extraneous stuff. Min current requirements are 200ma. I've used this spec at 450 with a SumR part with no issue.
  
 You can use any old 15V transformer for the input section, it's only there to drive the front-end CCS. Antek for the filament transformers yields good results, completely silent and no need for regulation.


----------



## DefQon

I'll keep Edcor in mind, I'm planning to do the 500v version for the PSU for my offboard. 
  
 Quoting the Trafo spec requirements from Lilknights website:
  


> Power transformer specs: Pri: 110v/220v. Sec: 2x 450v/130mA, 16v-0-16v/500mA


 
 I'm thinking separate trafo one that is primary 230v and secondary 2x450v as rated above and then hook up a few 230v/15v toroidials for the CCS. It says 16 and center-tapped, is 15v still ok? I don't think my left over trafo's are center-tapped with the 0v rail. Unless I'm reading it wrong?


----------



## NoPants

defqon said:


> I'll keep Edcor in mind, I'm planning to do the 500v version for the PSU for my offboard.
> 
> Quoting the Trafo spec requirements from Lilknights website:
> 
> I'm thinking separate trafo one that is primary 230v and secondary 2x450v as rated above and then hook up a few 230v/15v toroidials for the CCS. It says 16 and center-tapped, is 15v still ok? I don't think my left over trafo's are center-tapped with the 0v rail. Unless I'm reading it wrong?


 
 I was suggesting a transformer for the megatron specifically, I hope you're not thinking of running that at 500V. This is just my opinion but especially for the offboard, there's probably a lot of gains to be had from running 400V and upping the current to something ridiculous at the output stage. Higher voltage only enables louder volumes which you don't end up using anyway.
  
 I didn't run into any problems using 15Vac or 16Vac for LV supply. If you have dual secondaries, you can join them for 30V CT, there's only one bridge. It's been mentioned before, but don't go overboard with the current spec for this section.


----------



## DefQon

Lol my bad yeah was talking about the KGSSHV but hey you should know MOAR POWAH is better hehe. Oh ok ignore what I said about the center tapped 16v rails it makes more sense now that you've mentioned that you were referring to the Megatron.


----------



## dukeskd

defqon said:


> Yeah I've been told it's started gather channel imbalance with the left side being bit louder. His got a KGSSHV wired up with 2 mono pots for each channel so it's all fine.


 
  
 Oh that really sucks, but that is the risk with old electronics. I think the Omega and MDR-R10 are risky investments judging by their prices and failure rate.


----------



## DefQon

I think the R10 is even a bigger risk given that biocellulose only last for a certain amount of time and once the driver dies it is impossible to find replacement drivers let alone have them matched as there are so many driver variations with the R10. The value for the R10 has also increased tremendously over the years, once your drivers fail, you end up with an expensive collectors doorstop but at least you can still sell of the shell for few thousand.


----------



## 3X0

SR-009 also had (has?) the channel imbalance issue with the apparent solution having been shipping them to Japan and back -- allegedly Stax did nothing to the units and temperature changes and such from shipping resolved the issue.

_All_ electrostatics are susceptible to channel imbalance, and if the culprit is a parasitic charge (rather than diaphragm damage and/or dust), the inconvenient remedy is to play them for days/weeks, futz around with the pins to taste, or stow them away for weeks/months until it goes away.

With persistence you can restore the balance on some of the oldest Stax if the drivers are OK.

Too much FUD in this area IMHO. In most cases only the people who have problems would be very vocal about them (however few), yet I haven't heard of a straight-up failure in years. DavidMahler's R10 was the most recent one I'm aware of.


----------



## DefQon

The 009 has had issues with imbalance out of the blue but that was years ago and theres a thread dedicated for it. 

That was Birgirs advice from his own experience with his stats to continuously play music to rid itself of the parasitic charge but this method has not helped me.

With the helpful suggestion from wachara with a Stax SR3N no sound/imbalance repair, fixing imbalance issues means to recoat the membrane as a last resort, proven to work as I've done it.


----------



## 3X0

I tried the continuous playback method with limited success as well.

Having to recoat the membrane would lead me to believe that the diaphragm was somehow compromised, and that the imbalance isn't a result of normal parasitic charges.

If undamaged, stowing them away allows the diaphragm to completely lose charge (short of opening them up).

Posts about SR-009 imbalance experiences are as recent as last month. Fortunately, nigh all cases have been temporary but it goes to show that imbalance is the nature of the beast in the stat game.


----------



## karlgerman

Had SR-009 imbalance experience with my first 009. That was as the sr009 was brand new to the market.
 I recognized that the longer i used it, the worse it got, the left did not sound as loud as the right channel and also starts some kind of distortion.
  
 Allowing the 009 to rest for a week or so seems to resolve the issue. But just for a short period of time. The failure came back after using the headphone for more than 3 hours and again got worse with continuous playback.
  
 I returned the 009 for repair but they couldn't find any failure.
  
 Returned it a 2.nd time with a exact description when and how the imbalance occurs and the hint for testing the unit longer than 4 hours.
  
 Stax germany send me back a brand-new headphone which didn't  have any imbalance issues from beginning.
 This was also my experience with my 007Mk2 which operates flawlessly since i own it.


----------



## DefQon

I swear man with all the imbalance issues popping up and stuff, why is it always the left hand side? Man it's a conspiracy. I swear. Stax e-stat illumnati NWO. When you get hit with imbalance you get hit on the left side first.


----------



## 3X0

One week isn't sufficient in my experience. It can take months to fully discharge the diaphragms and confidently vanquish parasitic charges for the long haul.
  
 I've seen and experience the opposite, with the right side being the quieter one -- probably because I'm on the imperial system. Must be a US thing.


----------



## DefQon

It's a damn conspiracy I tell ya.
  
 Humidity has the biggest play with e-sat/ESL imbalance issues.


----------



## davidsh

I find it quite interesting with the amp requirenments of stats. With 'ordinary' headphones you want to have at least 10dB more headroom before you can say they are 'well driven' compared to what you have with stats


----------



## barid

Honestly the fear of channel imbalances has been the biggest deterrent to ordering a 009.  Would be the most expensive gear I've bought....and could fail apparently.  I kind of think that's unacceptable for the price of them.


----------



## 3X0

Not so much a failure as a temporary but silly inconvenience for what is a luxury product. Unfortunately it seems to be based on electrostatic principles but I'd be thrilled if Stax figured out a way to prevent parasitic charges in the future. It really is unacceptable to have to deal with an issue that compromises the core functionality of such an expensive product.

Temporary imbalance typically coincided with seasonal/temperature/humidity changes.

DefQon, you should get your friend to stow the Omega for a month or two until the imbalance is resolved and then consider whether you'll settle back to the 009. Not many people have ready access to snap up an Omega when they please, but the 009s will come and go.


----------



## DefQon

Chances are I will sell the 009 before even giving it some head time.


----------



## RiStaR

defqon said:


> It's all planned out to be purchased in the future so it's all good. I would buy a set of Megatron boards if Lilknight would respond on the other site I'm not reluctant to drop the $ on boards knowing that I won't receive them in a long time. And I still need to find time to complete my offboard KGSSHV lol.
> 
> Speaking offboard PSU is this one of the new mini KGSSHV psu board or another one I'm completely not familiar with?
> Nope too risky owning them.


 
  
 Doesn't matter which version of the PSU board. The tubes draw about 2-3 times more than the KGSSHV - which is why you need to remove the current limiters for the Mosfets. It'll work with the onboard sinks - it just eats the LT1021s for me when cased up cause of the heat (and I use it in an air conditioned room).
  
 Since you're building the offboard kgsshv, I'm certain you'll get the megatron up before that  I think LilKnight is caught up in some stuff, he's always been a class act to me. I do hope he's okay, though.
  
 Re alternatives to Sumr... try http://www.toroidy.pl/ I had a good experience with them.


----------



## dj nellie

Question about storing the 009s long-term:
  
 I'm going to be moving soon, and I have 2 options:  Either take my 009s with me on a trans-Pacific flight using a Pelican case, or store the 009s in the original wood box where they'll be transported through humid climates and on board ships for about 2-3 months.
  
 Which is the safer option?  Is the wood box really as good as Stax claims it is for limiting the potential damage of humidity?


----------



## davidsh

dj nellie said:


> Question about storing the 009s long-term:
> 
> I'm going to be moving soon, and I have 2 options:  Either take my 009s with me on a trans-Pacific flight using a Pelican case, or store the 009s in the original wood box where they'll be transported through humid climates and on board ships for about 2-3 months.
> 
> Which is the safer option?  Is the wood box really as good as Stax claims it is for limiting the potential damage of humidity?


 
 You could include some of those small bags made to keep the air dry within the case/box. Dunno what they are called or what they are for that matter.


----------



## bearFNF

davidsh said:


> You could include some of those small bags made to keep the air dry within the case/box. Dunno what they are called or what they are for that matter.


 

 desiccant pouches


----------



## kkqewl

Hi all, Looking for some feedback regarding the  SRM-007T II.  I currently have a SRM T-1 which is partnered to a Koss ESP-950 and it sound really nice but sometimes seems to lack a little drive on some material.
  
 Would going to a SRM-007T be a big step forward or more of a sideways move, I know both amps share the same 6CG7 type tubes but the 007T has four of them vs the single pair in the T-1. Do they share the same sonic signature ?
  
 Any comments would be appreciated.


----------



## rgs9200m

I very much like my 007t/ii with my 009 phones. The slightly rounded, reticent highs I hear in the amp (which was a weakness with the SR007 mk1 phones, making them sort of flat) 
 is just what the doctor ordered I sense with the 009s. Bass is very high quality, just not thunderous, about the same amount of bass-power and depth as my HD800s, but with more
 bass detail and bass-life. Nice tube signature, with a great inner glow and silkiness in the mids.


----------



## greggf

I agree totally with rgs.  I think he has exactly nailed the sound quality of the 009/007TII combination.  I very much enjoy it.  It's the best headphone sound quality I've ever come across.


----------



## rgs9200m

Thanks for that greggf.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

can the bias be changed on an amp like the T1 or srm1mk2 to accommodate something other then the stax pro line?  like maybe a koss 950 or jade?


----------



## DefQon

The 950 works fine off 580vdc pro bias


----------



## Rawdawg3234

milosz said:


> 2 channel 10 watt class A amplifier - *suitable for driving Stax SRD-5. SRD-7  etc.*  Also works well with speakers, although power is limited to 10/ channel watts at 8 ohms. 20 watts/ channel at 4 ohms.
> 
> Pair of  assembled 10-watt class-A MOSFET   boards from eBay seller jims_audio  CLICK* HERE*
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the in depth directions.. Since you took the time to put in so much work for me I will definitely be tackling this project.. Thanks again


----------



## milosz

keithpgdrb said:


> can the bias be changed on an amp like the T1 or srm1mk2 to accommodate something other then the stax pro line?  like maybe a koss 950 or jade?


 
 You can run the Koss ESP-950 right off an SRM-T1, no problem. No need to change the bias.  I do it all the time.  You just have to have the right connector on the Koss / or an adaptor.
  
 You can also drive Stax "pro" bias headphones right off the Koss amp, even though the bias on the Koss is a bit higher.  Again, what's needed of course is an adaptor for the headphone plug.


----------



## DefQon

And there is absolute no reason to convert your Stax headphones to be driven off the stock Koss amp.


----------



## jcx

there is if the E/90 is the only ES amp in the house and you have Stax earspeakers
  
 true, chopping cable would be non-optimal
  
 but it was easy to solder up a 2" long adapter out of some pins and sockets that fit and pot in 10 minute gel epoxy


----------



## rgs9200m

barid said:


> Honestly the fear of channel imbalances has been the biggest deterrent to ordering a 009.  Would be the most expensive gear I've bought....and could fail apparently.  I kind of think that's unacceptable for the price of them.


 
 Just for the record, I've had a few staxes over 15 yrs, 009s for 2 years, and never had an imbalance, and for me, that would not be a factor in a purchase decision.
 (There were no other defects either.)
 I did however buy them new from stax usa or usa dealers.
 (One of my Koss 950s had a whine.)


----------



## bearFNF

rgs9200m said:


> Just for the record, I've had a few staxes over 15 yrs, 009s for 2 years, and never had an imbalance, and for me, that would not be a factor in a purchase decision.
> (There were no other defects either.)
> I did however buy them new from stax usa or usa dealers.
> (One of my Koss 950s had a whine.)


 

 I have had mine since the late eighties (LNB) and have never had an issue...FWIW


----------



## Clsmooth391

Selling off my Stax rig and going dynamic, If anyone is interested I have listed the SR-009 for $3,650.00 (30 hours max on them) and purchased from an authorized US dealer.


----------



## DairyProduce

Why? Also, what amp did you use with it?


----------



## barid

Picked up some lambda pros for cheap on ebay a couple weeks ago. Very enjoyable. Pretty buzzed at the moment, but right now id say im liking them more than the hd800's i just had on

U know the bells hopslam and troegs nuggest nectar finally got shipped to dc good beers and stax work well together.


----------



## mangler

barid said:


> Picked up some lambda pros for cheap on ebay a couple weeks ago. Very enjoyable. Pretty buzzed at the moment, but right now id say im liking them more than the hd800's i just had on
> 
> U know the bells hopslam and troegs nuggest nectar finally got shipped to dc good beers and stax work well together.




Love the hopslam! I'll have to pair it with my stax if it makes it down here to Tampa


----------



## Clsmooth391

dairyproduce said:


> Why? Also, what amp did you use with it?


 
  
 I used the SRM-717. I heard the Eddie Current 2A3 with the HD800 and preferred that setup.


----------



## ChiAki

2A3+HD800 > 717+SR-009?
  
 Oh, what heresy!


----------



## Clsmooth391

chiaki said:


> 2A3+HD800 > 717+SR-009?
> 
> Oh, what heresy!


 
  
  
 I take it you have been part of the mafia for a while now


----------



## MacedonianHero

clsmooth391 said:


> I take it you have been part of the mafia for a while now


 
 Considering the witness protection plan? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Let me know when you get your new amp...would be fun to compare to the GS-X Mk2 and my Stax rig.


----------



## DefQon

I've read and have heard a lot of people liking EC stuff with the HD800's regardless of his amp models.


----------



## davidsh

Just noted that the pro bias of my srm-t1 is 366 volts and the normal bias is 176 volts. Any thoughts?
  
 Here the multi-meter is by the way: http://www.extech.com/instruments/resources/datasheets/MN25_MN26.pdf
  
 DC offset is 2v and 8.5v, measured between the channels. 1.1v and 8v between + and ground. Should I adjust the offset?


----------



## dude_500

davidsh said:


> Just noted that the pro bias of my srm-t1 is 366 volts and the normal bias is 176 volts. Any thoughts?
> 
> Here the multi-meter is by the way: http://www.extech.com/instruments/resources/datasheets/MN25_MN26.pdf
> 
> DC offset is 2v and 8.5v, measured between the channels. 1.1v and 8v between + and ground. Should I adjust the offset?


 
  
 You can't directly measure the bias because there is a large series resistance with it, and that acts as a divider with the resistance in the meter. You need a high impedance meter (ideally an electrostatic volt meter), or knowing both the impedance in the amplifier as well as in the meter and doing the math.
  
 As for the offset, I personally wouldn't care about numbers that low. You certainly could adjust it, though.


----------



## davidsh

dude_500 said:


> You can't directly measure the bias because there is a large series resistance with it, and that acts as a divider with the resistance in the meter. You need a high impedance meter (ideally an electrostatic volt meter), or knowing both the impedance in the amplifier as well as in the meter and doing the math.
> 
> As for the offset, I personally wouldn't care about numbers that low. You certainly could adjust it, though.


 
 Yeah, that makes good sense. Thank you very much. Some time I'll measure the caps too, just to check whether they need replacement. I suppose a measurement of the resistance and capacitance would do? And what numbers should I expect when doing the measurements? Anything else I should measure too?
  
 I don't hope I am too demanding


----------



## dude_500

davidsh said:


> Yeah, that makes good sense. Thank you very much. Some time I'll measure the caps too, just to check whether they need replacement. I suppose a measurement of the resistance and capacitance would do? And what numbers should I expect when doing the measurements? Anything else I should measure too?
> 
> I don't hope I am too demanding


 
  
 You only need the resistance to measure the voltage. The capacitance can be assumed high enough to not be an issue with the load of the volt meter.
  
 Measuring the capacitors would simply tell you if they're going bad, which might be a good test if you're at all wondering. You might have to take the capacitors out of circuit to measure them, though.


----------



## davidsh

dude_500 said:


> You only need the resistance to measure the voltage. The capacitance can be assumed high enough to not be an issue with the load of the volt meter.
> 
> Measuring the capacitors would simply tell you if they're going bad, which might be a good test if you're at all wondering. You might have to take the capacitors out of circuit to measure them, though.


 
 Ohh well, you know most people say that a recap is a good idea for such an old unit. Reason for measuring resistance is of course to see if they bleed DC, capacitance of course to know whether they are within spec.


----------



## ultimanium

Hey guys, I've got a sr-202, and its cable seems to be going.
 Sound distorts when I move the cable around.
 I was wondering if I could use the cable from an sr-x mk2 as a replacement, and how hard it would be to perform the replacement.
 Thanks!
 I have a solder station, although not much experiance using it.


----------



## DefQon

ultimanium said:


> Hey guys, I've got a sr-202, and its cable seems to be going.
> Sound distorts when I move the cable around.
> I was wondering if I could use the cable from an sr-x mk2 as a replacement, and how hard it would be to perform the replacement.
> Thanks!
> I have a solder station, although not much experiance using it.


 
 Not worth it, just spend $80 on a replacement cable which is a direct solder in, no need to modify a normal bias round cable to run fit for pro-bias.


----------



## barid

Just received a pair of 007 mk1's.  I am preferring them to the mk2's.  I'd agree with the impressions I've seen on forums regarding both models.


----------



## MacedonianHero

barid said:


> Just received a pair of 007 mk1's.  I am preferring them to the mk2's.  I'd agree with the impressions I've seen on forums regarding both models.


 
 They just are more "balanced" than the MK2s. The bass goes deeper and is better controlled and they're a bit more coherent overall. Congrats!


----------



## cucera

The SR007 MK2 sounds somewhat boomy compared to the MK1. They are still the best Headphone I know and there is a good reason that they still cost 200-400$ more than the newer model.


----------



## DefQon

Boomy could be related to that attenuated mid bass, at least for me and few others. If I had the option I'd own both because I prefer the MK2 over the more balanced MK1 for select few genres.


----------



## MacedonianHero

defqon said:


> *Boomy could be related to that attenuated mid bass*,.....


 
 Agreed with this.


----------



## preproman

defqon said:


> Boomy could be related to that attenuated mid bass, at least for me and few others. If I had the option I'd own both because I prefer the MK2 over the more balanced MK1 for select few genres.


 
  
 What genres?  It's good to see someone actually likes the MK2s for something.


----------



## mangler

preproman said:


> What genres?  It's good to see someone actually likes the MK2s for something.




I like my Mk2 (2.5 really) quite a bit, but then again I've never heard the Mk1


----------



## milosz

cucera said:


> The SR007 MK2 sounds somewhat boomy compared to the MK1. They are still the best Headphone I know and there is a good reason that they still cost 200-400$ more than the newer model.


 
 On music with a strong rhythm element (pop, rock, etc)  the Mk II's sound a bit over-ripe in the 80~120 Hz region ("boomy.")
  
 On orchestral, chamber and other "classical" music they sound "warm."
  
 I think they are voiced for "serious" music lovers who want that "rich" or "warm" sound.  Just my 2 cents worth.
  
 All versions offer lots of detail low distortion etc. But the later models do have a different voice.


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> What genres?  It's good to see someone actually likes the MK2s for something.


 
 Actually I think the MK2s are great headphones, just a few steps backwards from the MK1s.


----------



## 3X0

Am I daft for not really digging either SR-007 that much? They sound too much like the JH13 (non-FP) I have and don't confer enough of the qualities I've come to appreciate from other electrostats (namely a level of astonishingly high resolution).
  
 I have heard them from the likes of formidable energizers such as the modified SRM-727, KGSSHV and Liquid Silk. They pleased me but didn't really knock my socks off.
  
 Is it one of those headphones that you need to spend more time to appreciate how little they do wrong, or am I justified in thinking they're overrated?


----------



## MacedonianHero

I was never a full fledged fan of the SR007s (Mk1, Mk2 or Mk2.5), but I had only heard them on Stax amps (like the 323S, SRM727II and SRM007). Then I got to hear them on a KGSS and I thought: "wow, this is what the fuss is all about". That was a few years ago, I've since bought them (Mk1) and with my KGSSHV/BDA-2 they are delightful. I still prefer my SR-009s, but these along with my LCD-X / GS-X Mk2 are my second most reached headphones.


----------



## s1rrah

Recently picked up a very minty set of SR-404 Limited Editions ...
  
 Prior to getting the 404's, I listened to Koss 950's 99% of the time and some SR-307's 1% of the time (vastly preferred the Koss stats over the SR-307) ,...
  
 But the 404LE's blow them both away. Man, super sweet Lambdas ... the 307's are simply not even comparable and sound etched and hard and narrow in comparison ...
  
 The Koss ESP-950's are similar to the 404LE's ... especially in the bass department ... but ultimately I enjoy the 404LE's bass better and also, the 404's smoke the 950's in regards to detail, separation and high frequency retrieval. 
  
 Sold the 307's immediately after getting the 404LE's and keeping the Koss 950's as shelved back ups.
  
 Really surprised at how smooth, fun and resolving the 404LE's are, though. Worth every penny. Glad to say that the can search is over for now ... at least in the Lambda dept.


----------



## cat6man

I loved the 404LE when I had them, a real bargain and superb sound  beyond any Stax I'd had before.
 I've since sold them and moved up to the 009/BHSE but the 404LE really are special.
 Enjoy


----------



## mangler

It's nice to hear some positive things about the Mk2. Usually you hear something like "Mk1 or go home", which can give the impression that the Mk2 are no good, and seemingly dismissed as garbage. But they're actually wonderful, IMHO of course. I love mine, and even though they are under powered and not at their full potential, I find them far more engrossing and romantic than any other headphone I've ever heard (mostly LCD2, sr-507, TH600, AKG 550...not as many or as high of quality as the ones many here have owned/tried, but these are still respectable and well loved headphones). They're not as "creamy" as the LCD2 or as transparent as the 507, but they do something for me the others do not. I do have to say that at first I was underwhelmed, but given time to adjust to the sound (2 weeks for me) when I now lay back and go through a favorite album, I feel submerged. I'm sure they're not as balanced as the Mk1, but I don't mind some color if it's pleasant . I should probably also say I'd been looking for a headphone to relax with at the end of he day, so I actually appreciate the laid back nature of the 007. Maybe this will change with better amplification, but I can always switch amps depending on my mood. Anyway, I guess that's my 2 (inexperienced) cents.


----------



## kothganesh

macedonianhero said:


> I was never a full fledged fan of the SR007s (Mk1, Mk2 or Mk2.5), but I had only heard them on Stax amps (like the 323S, SRM727II and SRM007). Then I got to hear them on a KGSS and I thought: "wow, this is what the fuss is all about". That was a few years ago, I've since bought them (Mk1) and with my KGSSHV/BDA-2 they are delightful. I still prefer my SR-009s, but these along with my LCD-X / GS-X Mk2 are my second most reached headphones.


 
 Pete,
  
 In your estimate, how much better is the 009 versus the 007 mk1 ? Making budget plans 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and that must include a KGSSHV


----------



## jackskelly

macedonianhero said:


> I was never a full fledged fan of the SR007s (Mk1, Mk2 or Mk2.5), but I had only heard them on Stax amps (like the 323S, SRM727II and SRM007). Then I got to hear them on a KGSS and I thought: "wow, this is what the fuss is all about". That was a few years ago, I've since bought them (Mk1) and with my KGSSHV/BDA-2 they are delightful. I still prefer my SR-009s, but these along with my LCD-X / GS-X Mk2 are my second most reached headphones.


 
  
 MacedonianHero, on an imaginary scale, from 0 to 100, how close do you think the LCD-X is to the SR-009 as a headphone. I know this is kind of a silly question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I guess I could mean in whatever qualities to you make an ideal headphone).


----------



## cucera

mangler said:


> It's nice to hear some positive things about the Mk2. Usually you hear something like "Mk1 or go home", which can give the impression that the Mk2 are no good, and seemingly dismissed as garbage. But they're actually wonderful, IMHO of course. I love mine, and even though they are under powered and not at their full potential, I find them far more engrossing and romantic than any other headphone I've ever heard...
> 
> . I'm sure they're not as balanced as the Mk1, but I don't mind some color if it's pleasant.




Agree! The MK2 or even MK2.5 are still excellent phones and you are not the first to like them even more than the MK1 because of their coloration. When I stated that they are boomy I was just saying that in relation to the MK1 or even the 009. They are still never Grado style boomy but a rather transparent and yes a bit warm window into the music.


----------



## wink

Quote:3X0 





> Am I daft for not really digging either SR-007 that much? They sound too much like the JH13 (non-FP) I have and don't confer enough of the qualities I've come to appreciate from other electrostats (namely a level of astonishingly high resolution).
> 
> I have heard them from the likes of formidable energizers such as the modified SRM-727, KGSSHV and Liquid Silk. They pleased me but didn't really knock my socks off.
> 
> Is it one of those headphones that you need to spend more time to appreciate how little they do wrong, or am I justified in thinking they're overrated?


 
 The biggest problem in comparing headphones is this habit of swapping from one straight to the next.
 Comparing the Senn HE60 to the Stax SR007 Mk1 on a KGSS, I find the HE60 totally addictive and put the Stax to the sice when comparing one straight after the other.
  
 After listening to the HE60, I need at least 3 songs with just the Mk1 to realise how much more musical and overall superior they are to the HE60.
  
 This also works for other headphone comparisons.
  
 The takeaway line here is to listen to one for a good while before swapping to the next.


----------



## 3X0

wink said:


> The biggest problem in comparing headphones is this habit of swapping from one straight to the next.
> Comparing the Senn HE60 to the Stax SR007 Mk1 on a KGSS, I find the HE60 totally addictive and put the Stax to the sice when comparing one straight after the other.
> 
> After listening to the HE60, I need at least 3 songs with just the Mk1 to realise how much more musical and overall superior they are to the HE60.
> ...



While I can sympathize with this sentiment, it took me all of fifteen seconds to realize that the SR-007 was glossing over a finer nuance of a track I am very familiar with that both the SR-Omega and SR-009 rendered distinctly.

I am not saying that the detail was made more forward on the latter two, but rather that the SR-007 just missed it. My JH13s are unable to audibly reproduce the same tick, though I can't remember whether HD 800s could. I'm not sure if meet conditions could have played a factor as I was able to compare in the same environment to confirm the suspicion.

In this case I am not just talking about flavors but rather technical merits. I heard the SR-007Mk1 several years prior with the SRM-717 and had mixed impressions, but extensive reading since then has certainly hyped up the unit for me perhaps to unrealistic levels. Relative to at least its circular SR brethren, resolution did not seem to be the SR-007's strong suit.


----------



## TheAttorney

wink said:


> The biggest problem in comparing headphones is this habit of swapping from one straight to the next.


 
 +1
  
 However perfect a particular headphone may be, it will always appear be be lacking in something or other when directly compared to another headphone that has a hyped up something or other.


----------



## mangler

theattorney said:


> +1
> 
> However perfect a particular headphone may be, it will always appear be be lacking in something or other when directly compared to another headphone that has a hyped up something or other.


 
I think this is especially true if your comparing it to a headphone you've been living with for a long time


----------



## DefQon

preproman said:


> What genres?  It's good to see someone actually likes the MK2s for something.


 
 Mainly fun genres such as oldschool Rap and some sub genres of EDM, I do like mid-bass but only on genres and tracks that I like it on. The same applies to the MK1 which are more superior if you listen to neutral or natural oriented genres such as jazz, vocal oriented, classical and certain rock.
  


3x0 said:


> Am I daft for not really digging either SR-007 that much? They sound too much like the JH13 (non-FP) I have and don't confer enough of the qualities I've come to appreciate from other electrostats (namely a level of astonishingly high resolution).
> 
> I have heard them from the likes of formidable energizers such as the modified SRM-727, KGSSHV and Liquid Silk. They pleased me but didn't really knock my socks off.
> 
> Is it one of those headphones that you need to spend more time to appreciate how little they do wrong, or am I justified in thinking they're overrated?


 
 Maybe you just like tilt towards brighter sound signature headphones. No hyperbole's involved but the O2 transforms once powered by a good amp. Your 323S would be 1/2 decent with driving the O2's should you ever consider it.
  


s1rrah said:


> Recently picked up a very minty set of SR-404 Limited Editions ...
> 
> ......
> 
> Really surprised at how smooth, fun and resolving the 404LE's are, though. Worth every penny. Glad to say that the can search is over for now ... at least in the Lambda dept.


 
  
 The 404 LE are the last modern Lambda's to carry some traits of the old vintage Lambda lineup so they are half decent at least compared to the better Lambda's out there. 
  
 Do note that your search and journey has just started, no where near ending it, a good percentage of Stax user's usually find there end game with the O2 or 009's. Just saying.


----------



## MacedonianHero

kothganesh said:


> Pete,
> 
> In your estimate, how much better is the 009 versus the 007 mk1 ? Making budget plans
> 
> ...


 
 If you're asking me are the SR-009s worth the price increase over the 007Mk1s, I'm gonna have to say yes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jackskelly said:


> MacedonianHero, on an imaginary scale, from 0 to 100, how close do you think the LCD-X is to the SR-009 as a headphone. I know this is kind of a silly question
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I think the LCD-X / GS-X Mk2 and SR-007Mk1 / KGSSHV are very competitive actually...but the SR-009s are a cut above both to my ears.
  
 Just my 2 cents...


----------



## nick n

Can someone confirm the SR404 cable is in fact a brown one. I am in need of a replacement brown one that won't break the bank for a project.( yep has to be brown ) I'll do some more image searches.
 Electromod UK has them described as both black and brown same listing, and one of those ambiguous pics. Now the obvious question: why not email them. Will do so now.
  Thanks a bunch.


----------



## s1rrah

defqon said:


> Do note that your search and journey has just started, no where near ending it, a good percentage of Stax user's usually find there end game with the O2 or 009's. Just saying.


 
  
 Oh, well aware. Therefore my qualification: "at least in the Lambda dept..."


----------



## FrankCooter

mangler said:


> It's nice to hear some positive things about the Mk2. Usually you hear something like "Mk1 or go home", which can give the impression that the Mk2 are no good, and seemingly dismissed as garbage. But they're actually wonderful, IMHO of course.


 
  
 Because of the cult status of the Mk1's, the differences between the two models tend to be exaggerated. From a purely personal perspective,  the Mk1's to be a little darker and more recessed than the Mk2's. The Mk2's seem to be tuned to a little more forward and dynamic , if slightly less linear presentation. The Mk1's seem to work best with solid-state (or solid-state sounding) amps. Using tubes,  I'm not so sure which I would prefer.
  
 I currently own a 507, and will eventually upgrade to an 007. If I have a chance to buy a Mk1 I probably will, but I will not be disappointed with a Mk2.
  
 Most of the Mk1's I see at meets are beginning to show their age. Often the headband is loose and sloppy, and there is a weakness at the strain relief where the cable enters the cup. If you ever need new drivers from Stax, they will be Mk2's.


----------



## dude_500

Odds are this has been brought up at some point, but I've never found a good answer to this online. Is an SR007 Omega II Mk 2 the same as the plain old SR007 Mk 2? Is the same true for SR007 Omega II Mk 1 and SR007 Mk 1?
  
 If so, then is there an Omega I and what is it? And what does just "O2" refer to?


----------



## cucera

dude_500 said:


> Odds are this has been brought up at some point, but I've never found a good answer to this online. Is an SR007 Omega II Mk 2 the same as the plain old SR007 Mk 2? Is the same true for SR007 Omega II Mk 1 and SR007 Mk 1?
> 
> If so, then is there an Omega I and what is it? And what does just "O2" refer to?




correkt they go by all these names.


----------



## 3X0

dude_500 said:


> If so, then is there an Omega I and what is it? And what does just "O2" refer to?


 
 http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=SR-%CE%A9
  
 http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=SR-007
  
 http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=Stax_SR-007MkII
  
 N.B. The SR-009 is not officially an "Omega" family product AFAIK, not sure why.


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## dailydoseofdaly

Dude500 these are the basic changes to my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these

There are two versions of the o2mk1 the early ones serial starts with 70xxx
Later construction changed slightly and the serial was changed to start with sz1
A port was added to the construction and serial changed to sz2 (o2mk2), the port can be modded to give a sz1 freq response
Diaphragm and housing material change, sz3(nicknamed o2mk2.5)

The original omega is it's own entity and separate to the omega 2

3x0 your fast, tnx for the links


----------



## DefQon

nick n said:


> Can someone confirm the SR404 cable is in fact a brown one. I am in need of a replacement brown one that won't break the bank for a project.( yep has to be brown ) I'll do some more image searches.
> Electromod UK has them described as both black and brown same listing, and one of those ambiguous pics. Now the obvious question: why not email them. Will do so now.
> Thanks a bunch.


 
 SR-404 cables are the more premium PC-OCC based "fatter" cables that are used interchangebly between the 404 and 407 Lambda's. Yes they are in brown not black, I'd think Stax would have to be absolutely schitfaced drunk to mix black cables with brown housing/headband/arc assembly.


----------



## Lan647

What do you guys think of the SR-407 and specifically the SRS-4170 system (407 + 006t)? I'm in the consideration department but I want to make sure I make the right call. 
  
 I have listened to STAX - lots of em - but not extensively. Most experience I have had with the SR-009, enough so to conclude that its signature is not quite to my liking (slightly sterile) and I prefer some of the Lambdas and SR-007 overall. I did listen to (and compared to the 009) one Lambda in this color and it sounded fantastic, perhaps slightly less refined and less solid in the bass than the 009 but also slightly more sweet and organic. Quite similar otherwise, sonically. I can't say if that was the 407 as they all look basically the same. May have been the Nova classic. 
  
 SR-007 mk1 with an amp to match would be my choice if I had the budget, but I feel I want to play it a bit safe and jump on the "entry-level" wagon first.


----------



## s1rrah

lan647 said:


> What do you guys think of the SR-407 and specifically the SRS-4170 system (407 + 006t)? I'm in the consideration department but I want to make sure I make the right call.
> 
> I have listened to STAX - lots of em - but not extensively. Most experience I have had with the SR-009, enough so to conclude that its signature is not quite to my liking (slightly sterile) and I prefer some of the Lambdas and SR-007 overall. I did listen to (and compared to the 009) one Lambda in this color and it sounded fantastic, perhaps slightly less refined and less solid in the bass than the 009 but also slightly more sweet and organic. Quite similar otherwise, sonically. I can't say if that was the 407 as they all look basically the same. May have been the Nova classic.
> 
> SR-007 mk1 with an amp to match would be my choice if I had the budget, but I feel I want to play it a bit safe and jump on the "entry-level" wagon first.


 
  
 Can't comment on your main question but I'll comment all the same ...
  
 SR-404LE's are ridiculously better than SR-307's.
  
 Way better highs. Way better lows. Way better instrument separation. More quiet in the quiet parts. ... a whole other order of Lamdba. 
  
 I know because I had the SR-307's ... and then sold them after hearing/listening to the 404LE's ...


----------



## davidsh

Sound quality of 006t = the old T1 series just so you know.


----------



## Lan647

davidsh said:


> Sound quality of 006t = the old T1 series just so you know.




Not to start a discussion which may take the attention of my original question, but does that mean the 006t is in fact a better driver than the 007tII?


----------



## davidsh

lan647 said:


> davidsh said:
> 
> 
> > Sound quality of 006t = the old T1 series just so you know.
> ...


 
 Don't think so..? From what I have heard the 007t series is slightly better than 006t/T1.
  
 Some might argue that not all 006t/T1 amps are equal due to obstructed signal path due to switches and what not, but they have roughly equal circuits from what I hear.


----------



## Lan647

davidsh said:


> Don't think so..? From what I have heard the 007t series is slightly better than 006t/T1.
> 
> Some might argue that not all 006t/T1 amps are equal due to obstructed signal path due to switches and what not, but they have roughly equal circuits from what I hear.


 
  
 My bad, I mixed the T1 series up with the T2, which many here say is the best STAX amp ever made.


----------



## karlgerman

Soundwise my 006t performs excellent. Comparing to the KGSS it has less power and this might be his problem
 if you prefer hearing with higher loudnesslevels.
 For my 007 Mk2 it is easy to reach the edge of distortion. Less probelm with the 009 or the 4040 lambda.
  
 As i like to hear with lower levels it is very nice. The tubesound is also very enjoyable and more natural than my KGSS, especially if one use a 009 and Amarra as the player.
 In terms of dynamic and punch the 006t is on the soft side.
  
 Modern Staxamps have absolutely no backgroudnoise, no hum, no crackle, what makes for example the 006t very enjoyable at low levels.


----------



## DefQon

006 is worthwhile if you can score one for under $650 as its essentially a more modern T1 with the same sound. T1's are great with most of the Lambdas.


----------



## jcx

the T2 is reputed to have noticeable hum


----------



## davidsh

defqon said:


> 006 is worthwhile if you can score one for under $650 as its essentially a more modern T1 with the same sound. T1's are great with most of the Lambdas.


 
 Know any lambda which the T1 isn't good with? Personally, I'd gladly pay a little more than $650 for a 006 if it is fairly new.


----------



## Lan647

If I order from Japan, I can get for example the SRS-4170 for less than *half* the price of what it would cost to buy here. That's not including shipping costs, taxes and such but still a little tempting. I do love the STAX sound, IMHO there is nothing that compares on the dynamic side.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jcx said:


> the T2 is reputed to have noticeable hum


 
 Don't know about the Stax built ones, but the DIY KG version is dead silent (and hot!).


----------



## jcx

yes the original Stax T2


----------



## purk

macedonianhero said:


> Don't know about the Stax built ones, but the DIY KG version is dead silent (and hot!).


 
 Yup, it does warm up the room a bit.  A small trade off for a truly magnificence sound.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

looking for comparisons between the sr-202 and the original sr-lambda.  what are the differences?


----------



## DefQon

keithpgdrb said:


> looking for comparisons between the sr-202 and the original sr-lambda.  what are the differences?


 
  
 NB Lambda's have that natural, slightly over-emphasized but very seductive and well presented mids, slight 3d to the sound (at least with some songs I've listened to).
  
 SR-202, quite balanced sounding with a slight boost of brightness to the treble (not to the extend that'll hurt your ears). 
  
 Both are nice sounding stat's that sound drastically different to each other.
  
 If you're buying one of either, my suggestion is buy both.


----------



## milosz

I think the Stax Mafia has too much power & influence....


----------



## wink

I don't get it.....


----------



## nick n

defqon said:


> SR-404 cables are the more premium PC-OCC based "fatter" cables that are used interchangebly between the 404 and 407 Lambda's. Yes they are in brown not black, I'd think Stax would have to be absolutely schitfaced drunk to mix black cables with brown housing/headband/arc assembly.


 

 Thanks exactly what I needed. Screwy ad description and crappy pics got me wondering. Electromod it is then.
  


wink said:


> I don't get it.....


 

 have a close look at the duck in the top right of the picture.
  
 funny that someone we know lives in iceland and has one or maybe two Stax.


----------



## wink

Still don't get it.
  
 The person I know who lives in Iceland has lots of Stax gear.


----------



## DefQon

Spritzer owns a bingo casino? That duck is wearing Lambda Pros.


----------



## mangler

Birgir Corleone gave somebody the Mo Green special in order to take over the Bingo Casino


----------



## 3X0

How is the headband floating above the duck's head? I call shenanigans (but I still want to use that duck as an avatar).
  
 DefQon, the deals you get from YJ are just irresistible. It's a shame SR-007s show up so rarely as I might be interested in picking them up + a SRM-717 if I can scoop the combo up for ~$2000 or less. Even $1500 is too much to pay for the SR-007s IMHO and I remember a few pairs going for ~$1k years ago (before the hype train picked up).


----------



## mangler

Do you guys use a translator when using YJ auctions, do you speak Japanese, or am I missing something obvious about how to use it in English?


----------



## davidsh

Gpogle translate..,


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

Those look like Stax Sr-80 (Lambda Junior). It's not only a duck wearing Stax earspeakers... NO! It's a duck wearing pretty uncommon Stax earspeakers!
 I have to join Iceland Bingo, this is too convincing.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

defqon said:


> NB Lambda's have that natural, slightly over-emphasized but very seductive and well presented mids, slight 3d to the sound (at least with some songs I've listened to).
> 
> SR-202, quite balanced sounding with a slight boost of brightness to the treble (not to the extend that'll hurt your ears).
> 
> ...


Thank you for that insight. I have the sr lambda and srm1mk2. I've been unsuccessful in finding the signature, nova sig, and esp 950 that I can afford. I wanted to get a pro bias set of some kind. I recall comments about one of the entry level models being very good.


----------



## cucera

Best Entry Level on Budget is SR-202


----------



## ChiAki

The SR-202 can only let you hear all the cons of an electrostatic headphone. Give the SR-207 a try; it is definitely a huge step-up from the 202.


----------



## DefQon

Some owner's here actually prefer the 202 to the 207 due to it having less brightness to the treble. But the 207 is a good current in production e-stat.


----------



## ChiAki

Yes I agree that the 207's boost in treble might be harsh-sounding at times, but it presents a more complete package of sound, in comparison to the 202's lack of lower body. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 If you don't mind the lack of good imaging of instruments and vocals, slight boost in treble, unsatisfactory sound-stage, you might find the lower-end Stax headphones fine products with them winning basically all other categories in terms of detail retrieval etc.


----------



## DefQon

chiaki said:


> Yes I agree that the 207's boost in treble might be harsh-sounding at times, but it presents a more complete package of sound, in comparison to the 202's lack of lower body.


 
  
 The 202's doesn't lack lower body and has enough bass to satisfy somebody who wants a more neutral and balanced sound. If you want 202's with bass use 404LE/507 leather pads. I don't and have never enjoyed my 202's on any of the Stax amps. Only SRD-7sb MK2 > monoblocks/integrated/power amps with preamp feed-in and soon KGSSHV. The 202's off the BHSE I tried last year wasn't too bad either, I was expecting bright sounding but the sound was more realistic and holographic off the BH using stock JJ EL34's.


----------



## takato14

So my friend as a Stax SR-X MKIII Pro and an SRD-7SB. He's experiencing an odd problem with the system soundwise. There's a brickwall effect on the bass; he literally has no content whatsoever below a certain point. The headphones otherwise sound as they should: extremely clear and clean, no distortion, very lifelike, etc. 
  
 The SRD-7SB has been modified by the previous owner to bypass the loudspeaker/earspeaker toggle switch. It is otherwise stock (ie  has not been recapped) but he's taken a multimeter and capacitance meter to the PCB and everything seems to measure at proper spec. He's using an AudioSource AMP-100 with it.
  
 I suspect something electrically faulty in the SRD-7 that's causing it to act as a sort of analog highpass filter. Any idea what the issue could be? I mean, I heard it before I sent it to him, and it sounded like something was seriously off with something in the audio chain. The previous owner thought it sounded strange too, and he was used to the 'stat sound. The SR-X does have completely decayed pads, we're working on getting replacements, but having heard it myself I highly doubt that the pads are the entirety of the issue.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## takato14

Well uh, after a bit of poking around he figured it out, and its so stupid it's hilarious. One of the resistors in the SRD-7 got bent to where it contacted the pins of one right next to it, thus shorting the circuit. Wish I would've noticed that before I sent it to him, so I could've heard the headphone when it wasn't defective.
  
 Oh well. Nevermind


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Great. So now it's the 202 and 207. I may have missed out on the 202 in the for sale section, so I may go back to waiting and not deciding. And keep looking for the cans I really want. Lol. 202 does sound promising though.


----------



## cucera

keithpgdrb said:


> Great. So now it's the 202 and 207. I may have missed out on the 202 in the for sale section, so I may go back to waiting and not deciding. And keep looking for the cans I really want. Lol. 202 does sound promising though.




Yeah I am so sorry for you, but the first Stax is seldom the last one. Once infected with that virus it spreads.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

I've lived with my sr lambda quite a while now, and I was looking for something a step up or at least different. Hence the cans I mentioned earlier. I'll keep searching I think for the 950 first.


----------



## n3rdling

950 is a good choice if you want something much different.  If you want to stick with Lambdas, another nice headphone to look for is the LNS.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Yeah, I've been looking for both of those for a while. The lns is usually a pretty penny. The 950 might come up more reasonable. Would love the lns though.


----------



## iceye2072

i have not tried any electrostatic headphones but will certenly buy one in the near future.


----------



## DefQon

iceye2072 said:


> i have not tried any electrostatic
> headphones but will certenly buy one in the near future.:tongue_smile:




Just do it. Sounds like you're close to buying it and you need the final support from us to push you to getting some Stax.


----------



## wink

Get the Stax, you really want to.                           and, sorry about your wallet...!


----------



## kothganesh

iceye2072 said:


> i have not tried any electrostatic
> headphones but will certenly buy one in the near future.:tongue_smile:



To motivate you even more , I just got the SR 007 mk1. Come on, just do it


----------



## takato14

kothganesh said:


> iceye2072 said:
> 
> 
> > i have not tried any electrostatic
> ...


 
 Ooh, where'd you find a MK I? eBay had a few a long time ago but they're all gone...


----------



## davidsh

Here is one: http://www.head-fi.org/t/704604/mint-sr-007-mk1


----------



## kothganesh

takato14 said:


> Ooh, where'd you find a MK I? eBay had a few a long time ago but they're all gone...



Right here on HF. Bought the Stax 717 amp as well.


----------



## barid

kothganesh said:


> Right here on HF. Bought the Stax 717 amp as well.


 
  
 Yeah, I snagged a MK1 on the FS forum in amazing condition a week or two ago for a good price.  They seam to pop up in batches.  For a few months I was waiting for one to show up and nothing,  then as soon as I bought a MK2 a saw like 2-3 pop up the very next week.  Then nothing for a while, then again within the span of a week or so I see 3 show up FS.  Timing in life is a weird thing.


----------



## davidsh

barid said:


> Yeah, I snagged a MK1 on the FS forum in amazing condition a week or two ago for a good price.  They seam to pop up in batches.  For a few months I was waiting for one to show up and nothing,  then as soon as I bought a MK2 a saw like 2-3 pop up the very next week.  Then nothing for a while, then again within the span of a week or so I see 3 show up FS.  Timing in life is a weird thing.


 
 You don't say. And timing doesn't always match up with funds, unfortunately. Being a highschooler with high ambitions and an interest in Stax is not always fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Am trying to snatch up as much good gear as I can before getting my own place, as I'll practically be unable to save up for anything at that point and for like 5 years onwards.. So having some gear to trade in for funds is good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I call it savings. My mom just don't see it the same way...
  
 I'd say my current value is at least $2k in gear, probably more like 3k..


----------



## Keithpgdrb

404LE, LNS, or ESP 950 on the smr1mk2.  All seem to be playing on the same field.  whats your choice???? GO..


----------



## s1rrah

keithpgdrb said:


> 404LE, LNS, or ESP 950 on the smr1mk2.  All seem to be playing on the same field.  whats your choice???? GO..


 
  
 Using a 323s amp ...
  
 I've recently bought a pair of 404LE's ... they are super good. But I find myself listening to my Koss  ESP90's more. The Lambda's are really fine . . maybe *too* fine; articulate details are much better than the Koss'. But the Koss ESP950's have better soundstage and are just  ridiculously easy to listen too ... technically? Not as detailed as t he 404LE's ... but way more smooth listening ... also, as plastic as they may be? The 950's are SO fecking comfortable and light weight. I spent more money on the Lambdas ... and truth be told, just speaking critically? The 404LE's sound better in a "reference" regard ... but I listen to the 950's more ...


----------



## DefQon

keithpgdrb said:


> 404LE, LNS, or ESP 950 on the smr1mk2.  All seem to be playing on the same field.  whats your choice???? GO..


 
 LNS by far. For me at least. Neutral slight hint of brightness (very little). ESP950 more fun sounding then nailing the technicalities that the Stax are good at. 404LE very limited experience with, sounds alright and to me it was like a Lambda Pro pumped half with steroids without the treble etch and bit more mids (which I consider to be pretty natural sounding on the LP).


----------



## davidsh

Finally got to listen to the 009's. Spent an hour with them on the 727 and 007 amps, sounds amazing.


----------



## barid

davidsh said:


> Finally got to listen to the 009's. Spent an hour with them on the 727 and 007 amps, sounds amazing.




How would you characterize their sound differing between the 2 amps?


----------



## davidsh

^Cant help you there...


----------



## DefQon

LOL.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

So I've been wanting to buy one more expensive piece of audio equipment before I start saving for college. Since I likely won't bring my speakers with me on residence and am only going to use headphones, it would only be logical to upgrade my headphone rig. I think that I want to build a seperate Stax setup to compliment my HE-400 + JDS Labs O2 combination. I am looking at spending $1000 at the most and I've been wanting to give electrostatics a try. I'm specifically looking at pairing the SR-307 and the SRM-252S with my Audioquest Dragonfly as the DAC. How would this combination sound? I'm looking for something with a great midrange, lots of air and instrumental seperation (but not bright), and textured bass. Kind of like a slightly brighter, more airy, HD-650. Perhaps I would be better off with the Koss ESP950 system, but I want to use a Stax amp because it provides a nice upgrade path if I end up falling in love with electrostatics. Could you guys or girls please tell me what you think?


----------



## takato14

toddthemetalgod said:


> So I've been wanting to buy one more expensive piece of audio equipment before I start saving for college. Since I likely won't bring my speakers with me on residence and am only going to use headphones, it would only be logical to upgrade my headphone rig. I think that I want to build a seperate Stax setup to compliment my HE-400 + JDS Labs O2 combination. I am looking at spending $1000 at the most and I've been wanting to give electrostatics a try. I'm specifically looking at pairing the SR-307 and the SRM-252S with my Audioquest Dragonfly as the DAC. How would this combination sound? I'm looking for something with a great midrange, lots of air and instrumental seperation (but not bright), and textured bass. Kind of like a slightly brighter, more airy, HD-650. Perhaps I would be better off with the Koss ESP950 system, but I want to use a Stax amp because it provides a nice upgrade path if I end up falling in love with electrostatics. Could you guys or girls please tell me what you think?


 
 Go with the ESPs for sure. They'll be more of what you're used to with the HD6x0, except it's a stat, so you get all of their inherent qualities without the brightness of the SR-307. They also have the potential to scale up when used with a better stat amp (such as the SRM-323S). Wait a bit on eBay and you can probably get one that goes for cheap.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

takato14 said:


> Go with the ESPs for sure. They'll be more of what you're used to with the HD6x0, except it's a stat, so you get all of their inherent qualities without the brightness of the SR-307. They also have the potential to scale up when used with a better stat amp (such as the SRM-323S). Wait a bit on eBay and you can probably get one that goes for cheap.


 

 Thanks for the response 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. So where would I get a reterminated cable for use with a better stat amp? Which do you think out of the ESP and the SR-307 has the more euphoric, "natural" midrange? I can get one for $900 shipped out by Amazon, that wouldn't be too bad (I live in Canada, I'm not sure how this affects pricing). Also, I've heard a lot of bad things about the stock E90 amp sound quality and it's sort of scared me away from the Koss'.


----------



## DefQon

ESP-950 sounds nothing like the HD6x0. But I would agree with something else other than the 307. The ESP-950 is a more fun and musical sounding approach where the Stax excels in technicalities of sound.


----------



## DefQon

toddthemetalgod said:


> Thanks for the response
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The stock amp will do if you have nothing else but it's nothing special. The only downside to the ESP-950 is reliability. They tend to emit problems out of the blue from channel imbalance to driver squealing both of which you would need to send back to Koss to have it fixed backed by the lifetime warranty.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

defqon said:


> ESP-950 sounds nothing like the HD6x0. But I would agree with something else other than the 307. The ESP-950 is a more fun and musical sounding approach where the Stax excels in technicalities of sound.


 

 Thanks for the help. I think I'm going to go with the Stax setup, because my HE-400's are already a fun headphone for me and I'm looking for something that can produce a lot of subtle detail. That sounds like most of the descriptions I've read about Stax headphones.


----------



## davidsh

Well, the sr307 is bright and etched, or at least that's what I heard from a short audition.


----------



## s1rrah

toddthemetalgod said:


> Thanks for the response
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had both the ESP-950's and the SR-307's at the same time and for several months; I vastly prefer the ESP950's. No, they 950's were not quite as detailed as the 307's but they are better in just about every other way. 950's has a far more natural sound ... better sound stage, better and more believable 3D imaging (really almost speaker like) ... and plenty of detail to be a very immersive listenen. I found the SR-307's to sound very "hard" in the midrange ... to the point that it really bugged me and could even be very fatiguing with certain sorts of music. Odd because one typically things of "fatigue" arising from the  high frequencies, but with the 307's ... it came from a very hard, etched sounding mid range. Couldn't get past it. The 950's don't suffer from this at all (or at least not enough to be bothersome).
  
 The 950's are also the most comfortable headphone I've ever owned (I've since sold the SR-307's and kept the 950's) ... feather light on your head and I tend to forget I'm even wearing them some times ... 
  
 But back to Lambdas ... I've recently bought a pair of SR-404 Limited Editions and they are night and day compared to the SR-307's ... the 404LE's are much more on par with the 950's ... really sort of like a 950's smoothness but with classic, Stax micro detail retrieval and none of the harshness that I found in the 307's ... 
  
 Also, the stock 950's amp is quite decent if you ask me. I had it side by side with my Stax SRM323S amp and found the 323S to be only marginally better to my ear. I consider the 950 amp a great insurance policy to have on the shelf should I ever have to fall back on it.
  
 I've owned all sorts of cans ... GS1000's, various Stax amps, my roommates have Beyer T1's and LCD3's ... and by far (if you can handle the routine maintenance that seems to plague many users) ... the Koss 950 kit is one of the best deals under the sun. Even with my new 404LE's ... I still listen mostly to the Koss cans as I still find the speaker like 3D imaging to be better than the over all presentation of the 404LE's ...


----------



## milosz

toddthemetalgod said:


> Thanks for the response
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The Koss amp is inexpensively made, but in my A/B tests it is nearly as good sounding as the various Stax amps I've tried my ESP-950's on. I don't think it's cost effective to re-cable the ESP-950's AND buy a Stax amp just to get 10% better sound.  Now, if you ALREADY HAD some Stax amp(s) then, sure, get the cable changed.  But you're not going to get THAT big of a sound quality boost for the ~$600  or more it will cost to recable the ESP-950's and buy a Stax amp.
  
 Spend the money on girls instead.  You can always buy loads of exotic hifi gear when you're an old man.  But when you're a geezer- getting the chicks... well, not so much.


----------



## davidsh

I know these kind of questions are rather annoying, but how much does a srm-006 fetch these days?


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

s1rrah said:


> I had both the ESP-950's and the SR-307's at the same time and for several months; I vastly prefer the ESP950's. No, they 950's were not quite as detailed as the 307's but they are better in just about every other way. 950's has a far more natural sound ... better sound stage, better and more believable 3D imaging (really almost speaker like) ... and plenty of detail to be a very immersive listenen. I found the SR-307's to sound very "hard" in the midrange ... to the point that it really bugged me and could even be very fatiguing with certain sorts of music. Odd because one typically things of "fatigue" arising from the  high frequencies, but with the 307's ... it came from a very hard, etched sounding mid range. Couldn't get past it. The 950's don't suffer from this at all (or at least not enough to be bothersome).
> 
> The 950's are also the most comfortable headphone I've ever owned (I've since sold the SR-307's and kept the 950's) ... feather light on your head and I tend to forget I'm even wearing them some times ...
> 
> ...


 


milosz said:


> The Koss amp is inexpensively made, but in my A/B tests it is nearly as good sounding as the various Stax amps I've tried my ESP-950's on. I don't think it's cost effective to re-cable the ESP-950's AND buy a Stax amp just to get 10% better sound.  Now, if you ALREADY HAD some Stax amp(s) then, sure, get the cable changed.  But you're not going to get THAT big of a sound quality boost for the ~$600  or more it will cost to recable the ESP-950's and buy a Stax amp.
> 
> Spend the money on girls instead.  You can always buy loads of exotic hifi gear when you're an old man.  But when you're a geezer- getting the chicks... well, not so much.


 
  
 Thanks for the advice guys. I think I'm going to go for the ESP950. Even if the Stax are more detailed, I would probably prefer the Koss for their more natural sound.


----------



## 3X0

I'm sad I didn't grab the near-NOS Sigma Pro from Audiogon last night. $1000 is about the going rate for them right?

Might as well wait it out for a SR-007 near that price level.


----------



## DefQon

3x0 said:


> I'm sad I didn't grab the near-NOS Sigma Pro from Audiogon last night. $1000 is about the going rate for them right?


 
  
 $1000 is actually high for them.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

when I add pro bias to my amp, I will be able to adjust the bias.  If I was to get a Koss headphone, I've heard they do great on stax pro bias.  does it really need to be set to the higher?  has anyone tried this, and what was the result?


----------



## takato14

keithpgdrb said:


> when I add pro bias to my amp, I will be able to adjust the bias.  If I was to get a Koss headphone, I've heard they do great on stax pro bias.  does it really need to be set to the higher?  has anyone tried this, and what was the result?


 
 The KOSS bias voltage is 600 volts, only 20v higher than Stax Pro bias. The difference in sound between the two is likely not even measurable, let alone audible. 
  
 Or do you mean running the ESP/950 off a normal bias port? That would sound horrible; go pro or go home.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

For some reason I thought the koss bias was much higher. So never mind. All good


----------



## DefQon

You can run them at about 640vdc no problems. I couldn't discern any differences between 640 and 580 pro bias' though. If you do end up getting the Koss and wish to run them off Stax headphones in the future, buy the $15-30 extension cable from Koss and dice one end to convert to pro-bias connector which Moon Audio sells rather then chopping the end of your ESP950 cable which will void the warranty. Less hassle and no dramas.


----------



## schorsch

Nice piece of stax equipment
MA-1 microphone amplifier

Still Looking for a MA-2

Erhards Georg


----------



## schorsch

In the other side


----------



## Jonathan66100

Nice item 
 It is you who won the ebay auction?
 It seems they have also made a microphone in 1950, but it's not sure.
  
 http://www.stax.co.jp/Export/History.html


----------



## 3X0

Ugh, Stax gear is so sexy.


----------



## schorsch

I Won the auction. Now I have a Little studio solution to Record and Listen with stax gear.

Regards Georg


----------



## Jonathan66100

@3X0
 And is rare : )
  
 @schorsch
 It's very interesting.
 I would like to hear your music.
 Once recorded with the MA-1.
 And another time recorded with a no Stax system.


----------



## kenvisor

hmm, need to clarify something that I am ignorant of.
 is there an issue of a 100v stax headphone driver or  240v driver that I should be concern about? like say it wont work or not optimised at 240v for 009 imported from japan?
 or are they all the same
 Was going to order a SR009 from price Japan btw. anyone?


----------



## davidsh

kenvisor said:


> hmm, need to clarify something that I am ignorant of.
> is there an issue of a 100v stax headphone driver or  240v driver that I should be concern about? like say it wont work or not optimised at 240v for 009 imported from japan?
> or are they all the same
> Was going to order a SR009 from price Japan btw. anyone?


 
 Many order from price japan but the wait is long
  
 The earspeakers are the same, no issue. Ofc you can't use a 100v amp in a 240v socket.


----------



## DefQon

Wait is very long about 2 more months till my 009 come.


----------



## kothganesh

defqon said:


> Wait is very long about 2 more months till my 009 come.


 
 And how long ago did you order it ? I'm even afraid to ask.


----------



## DefQon

Bit more then 2 weeks ago. But my payment took bit over a week to clear.


----------



## DefQon

Sorry I'm wrong almost a month ago.


----------



## kothganesh

defqon said:


> Sorry I'm wrong almost a month ago.


 
 Wow. Out of curiosity, is this price only from the website or can one land up in Japan and buy it readily for a few bucks more ?


----------



## DefQon

No other place to buy Stax from Japan that ships international other than PJ. There is another one Fujima store or however you spell it but I haven't seen them carry any of the TOTL model.


----------



## kothganesh

defqon said:


> No other place to buy Stax from Japan that ships international other than PJ. There is another one Fujima store or however you spell it but I haven't seen them carry any of the TOTL model.


 
 Ok thanks much.


----------



## NoPants

You guys are way too harsh on the 307. I've been spending some time with it because my new (hopefully last) DAC came in today. Out of the KGSSHV I would say they deliver about 70% of the competency of the mk1s. The bass is a little bit anemic at low volumes and boomy at higher ones, and the treble isn't as accurate. The mids are also a bit sucked out, but I think this is probably the easiest of the problems to address if you run a tube amp like the Megatron. I suspect the lows and highs are a symptom of the frame and/or driver.
  
 That being said, the last 30% is totally worth it, I won't front. But you could do way worse in dynamic headphones for the price point.


----------



## kenvisor

davidsh said:


> Many order from price japan but the wait is long
> 
> The earspeakers are the same, no issue. Ofc you can't use a 100v amp in a 240v socket.


 
 alright, thanks for the info guys. Im just concerned about the headphone.
 The wait is 3 months ive been told, that'll give me enough time to think which amp to go with in the meantime, which I hadn't decide just yet. 
 I am actually looking to the upcoming high-end stax amp, its pretty elusive atm on what to expect.


----------



## barid

You know, after all the different headphones I've heard...the old stax lambda pros I picked up about a month or two ago probably sound more 'right' than any other.  I'm not saying they do everything better than other phones...they just sound like I expect music to sound.  Maybe what I'm used to from my youth?  either way, I'd recommend them over a lot of the current production phones, except maybe the hd600, those are a good bang for the buck.


----------



## DefQon

Just started to listen to my Gamma Pro's tonight. Again.


----------



## kothganesh

barid said:


> You know, after all the different headphones I've heard...the old stax lambda pros I picked up about a month or two ago probably sound more 'right' than any other.  I'm not saying they do everything better than other phones...they just sound like I expect music to sound.  Maybe what I'm used to from my youth?  either way, I'd recommend them over a lot of the current production phones, except maybe the hd600, those are a good bang for the buck.



Even compared to your mk2?


----------



## DefQon

He's got an MK1.


----------



## barid

defqon said:


> He's got an MK1.


 

 well the mk1 is great.  no knocks on it.  but for the $275 I picked up the 30 year of lambda pro for, I'd much rather listen to it than my HD800.  That being said I also like the T1 so my taste may not be what the high-end folks around here like anyway.
  
 Just saying the old lambda's really sound right to me.  They've become my bedtime headphone while I read before passing out.


----------



## DefQon

I want to adapt to reading and listening to music at the sametime. I can only do one or the other.
  
 I do enjoy my Lambda Pro's more so then anything out there as well. You can complain about the treble etch and lack of mids but I find it pretty neutral sounding.


----------



## barid

defqon said:


> I want to adapt to reading and listening to music at the sametime. I can only do one or the other.
> 
> I do enjoy my Lambda Pro's more so then anything out there as well. You can complain about the treble etch and lack of mids but I find it pretty neutral sounding.


 
  
 It's interesting seeing what people do and do not like on head-fi.  I've found attributes to really appreciate in almost all of the headphones I've tried (even the ones I ended up selling).  The one I didn't understand was the HE500.  Its got such a huge following here, but it just sounded so wrong to me.  Perhaps my amps didn't give it the proper power or something. 
  
 But yeah as a jack-of-all trades / all-arounder, the old lambda really does a lot right imo.


----------



## kothganesh

barid said:


> It's interesting seeing what people do and do not like on head-fi.  I've found attributes to really appreciate in almost all of the headphones I've tried (even the ones I ended up selling).  The one I didn't understand was the HE500.  Its got such a huge following here, but it just sounded so wrong to me.  Perhaps my amps didn't give it the proper power or something.
> 
> But yeah as a jack-of-all trades / all-arounder, the old lambda really does a lot right imo.




How would you compare the Lambda's characteristics to the MK1?


----------



## barid

kothganesh said:


> How would you compare the Lambda's characteristics to the MK1?




Hmm. I think you get a meatier sound with the mk1's. Some nicer bass textures. The lambdas have a cleaner leaner sound I think. For modern bass heavy genres I think the mk1 would be preferred over the old lambda. Perhaps the lambdas arent resolving as much detail (?) but its definitely a pleasant overall sig. I was just pleasantly surprised at how well it competes with the modern day top tier phones ive heard b


----------



## kothganesh

barid said:


> Hmm. I think you get a meatier sound with the mk1's. Some nicer bass textures. The lambdas have a cleaner leaner sound I think. For modern bass heavy genres I think the mk1 would be preferred over the old lambda. Perhaps the lambdas arent resolving as much detail (?) but its definitely a pleasant overall sig. I was just pleasantly surprised at how well it competes with the modern day top tier phones ive heard b


 
 Gotta check the lambdas then. God, this addiction is never-ending.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

kothganesh said:


> Gotta check the lambdas then. God, this addiction is never-ending.


 
 Unfortunately.
 It began with SR-5 + SR-X/mk3 from my father (with SRD-7/SB). Today, you can add SR-009, SRM-727II, SRM-1/mk2 pro, SR-Lambda, SRD-7/SBmk2.





  
 Ali


----------



## 3X0

nopants said:


> You guys are way too harsh on the 307. I've been spending some time with it because my new (hopefully last) DAC came in today. Out of the KGSSHV I would say they deliver about 70% of the competency of the mk1s. The bass is a little bit anemic at low volumes and boomy at higher ones, and the treble isn't as accurate. The mids are also a bit sucked out, but I think this is probably the easiest of the problems to address if you run a tube amp like the Megatron. I suspect the lows and highs are a symptom of the frame and/or driver.
> 
> That being said, the last 30% is totally worth it, I won't front. But you could do way worse in dynamic headphones for the price point.


 
 I get the idea that the individuals who lambast it are comparing it in the context of other Lambdas in nuances such as tonal balance. I, too, was alright with the SR-307.
  


defqon said:


> I want to adapt to reading and listening to music at the sametime. I can only do one or the other.


 
 Waste of money using anything above cheap-o headphones for the purpose IMHO. Anything good enough to be distracting (even an entry-level Lambda) will compromise enjoyment of either the reading or the music when trying to enjoy both.


----------



## barid

3x0 said:


> Waste of money using anything above cheap-o headphones for the purpose IMHO. Anything good enough to be distracting (even an entry-level Lambda) will compromise enjoyment of either the reading or the music when trying to enjoy both.


 
  
 lol


----------



## DefQon

Yeh I'd agree with that for sure.


----------



## davidsh

Don't get me started on homework and hi-end headphones... Mixes like water and oil, lol


----------



## themad

^^ the problem with that is when you catch yourself drumming on your thighs... that's when you know the homework is not getting the necessary attention!
  
 Now for a challenge: listen to some music in a foreign language while you do your homework in another foreign language. That is *****ed up...
  
 I did that listening to some songs in English while doing my Spanish classes homework. I'm Brazilian.
 Probably I did not get either the lyrics nor the homework correct...


----------



## kothganesh

themad said:


> ^^ the problem with that is when you catch yourself drumming on your thighs... that's when you know the homework is not getting the necessary attention!
> 
> Now for a challenge: listen to some music in a foreign language while you do your homework in another foreign language. That is *****ed up...
> 
> ...



Dude, you got your avatar right


----------



## themad

LOL.
 Thanks. Gracias. Obrigado. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Now for some topic-related discussion:
 I've seen mentions to stores that sell Stax in Tokyo and of course got a few more dealers from the Stax JP website.
  
 But what are the cheapest places to buy? Or are the prices about the same everywhere?
  
 I'm looking for SR007 or SR009. I don't know if stores always stock these models.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Are the 404le's the only ones with the red ringed drivers? I saw a pair of brown 404 lambdas with red ring drivers and am confused.


----------



## kothganesh

themad said:


> LOL.
> Thanks. Gracias. Obrigado.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 De nada! A few posts ago, DefQon mentioned that PriceJapan is the best bet for the higher end models. But oh the wait !


----------



## themad

kothganesh said:


> De nada! A few posts ago, DefQon mentioned that PriceJapan is the best bet for the higher end models. But oh the wait !


 
 Actually I did not express myself correctly in my previous post...
  
 I am looking for a physical store to buy the Stax in Tokyo. A friend of mine will be there soon and would bring it to me.
  
 Customs tax in Brazil are incredibly prohibitive...


----------



## ALSO

Best place to find things in stock is Yodobashi Camera in Akihabara, which is the electronics district in Tokyo.  Fujiya Avic in Nakano is probably the best speciality store in Tokyo, and they have a lot of great things used as well, but they have fewer STAX items in stock at the moment, although they seem to have several sets of used 007As, and some other items.  But Yodobashi typically has the most in stock--lots of new 007As, and some of the other current Lambdas, but nothing vintage or discontinued.  The advantage of Yodobashi is they have tons of things audio and much of it you can listen to, so it's worth the visit.  I made many trips there during the last year and had a chance to listen to many different headphones.  They will have English speaking staff, as well as some who speak other languages, although I'm not sure about Portuguese, possible though.  If you have time, if your friend has time, it's worth making the rounds to the Audio and Disk Union stores in Ochanomizu, which are also great.  But Yodobashi in Akihabara is probably the most efficient stop for currently available items.


----------



## themad

Thanks a lot for all the detailed info.
 If you allow me, I'll send you a PM asking for more precise directions in case I can't find (or read) on their websites.
  
 I would have no problems in asking this friend to bring a used 007 or 009, since he is into hi-fi stuff as well. But what are the most common issues with the 007/009 he should be aware of? Any specific parts that tend to crack/get loose due to extended usage? Besides the visually obvious such as dents, scratches, worn-out pads, etc.


----------



## ALSO

Sure to PM, am happy to help as best I can.  The used gear at Fujiya Avic and Audio Union are generally in good cosmetic shape and having sold stuff there, I know they put everything through the tests.  But these are the 007As, not the 007 mk. 1s.  You probably won't find any used 009s in stock, they tend to appear on Yahoo auction.  But anything used in stock you can take a look at, so you can judge for yourself.


----------



## Michgelsen

keithpgdrb said:


> Are the 404le's the only ones with the red ringed drivers? I saw a pair of brown 404 lambdas with red ring drivers and am confused.


 
  
 No, the 303 (grey) and 404 (brown, non LE) have red ringed drivers too, according to every pic I've seen of them.


----------



## DefQon

keithpgdrb said:


> Are the 404le's the only ones with the red ringed drivers? I saw a pair of brown 404 lambdas with red ring drivers and am confused.


 
 SR-404's have red ringed drivers. Red ringed drivers don't mean anything as it's just the metal ring holding the dust filter onto outer stator assembly. I think the LNS also has red ringed dust filter rings but I'am unsure as I never pulled that Lambda apart.


----------



## John Buchanan

defqon said:


> SR-404's have red ringed drivers. Red ringed drivers don't mean anything as it's just the metal ring holding the dust filter onto outer stator assembly. I think the LNS also has red ringed dust filter rings but I'am unsure as I never pulled that Lambda apart.


 
 The LNS has gold coloured metal rings.


----------



## DefQon

Thanks for confirming John. Speaking of gold/brass colour I think the whole Nova series were the same except the Basic.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

I am selling my Stax setup, maybe it's the right stuff for one of you guys?
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/709555/stax-lambda-signature-w-latest-generation-earpads
http://www.head-fi.org/t/709578/stax-srm-t1-modified


----------



## Keithpgdrb

amanand88keys said:


> I am selling my Stax setup, maybe it's the right stuff for one of you guys?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/709555/stax-lambda-signature-w-latest-generation-earpads
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/709578/stax-srm-t1-modified


 
 just tighten the screw dude.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

keithpgdrb said:


> just tighten the screw dude.


 
 Ha! No, I am serious about selling this. The screw is not "loose" as in not tight, a bit of the ring around it is broken. That's all.
 Pictures are up, so you can take a look yourself. Quality is crappy but ok to get an impression.


----------



## DefQon

Do want. LS is only Lambda haven't heard.


----------



## mangler

Does anybody here do anything to protect their stax from humidity with something like silica packets or a dehumidifier box ( like the kind you'd use for cameras)?


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

defqon said:


> Do want. LS is only Lambda haven't heard.


 

 Shoot me a PM


----------



## davidsh

mangler said:


> Does anybody here do anything to protect their stax from humidity with something like silica packets or a dehumidifier box ( like the kind you'd use for cameras)?


 
 Sorrily, I don't. They are just on their stand or lying on my desk.
  
 Just a general question. Am I right in assuming it won't be harder for an electrostatic amp to drive 1 or 3 electrostats at the same time, as the impedance is so high and voltage swing is the real concern?


----------



## DefQon

davidsh said:


> Just a general question. Am I right in assuming it won't be harder for an electrostatic amp to drive 1 or 3 electrostats at the same time, as the impedance is so high and voltage swing is the real concern?


 
  
 No no affect at all.


----------



## davidsh

Now we are at it, have you ever driven a 006/T1 into clipping or the like and what did it take? It seems to have heaps of headroom to me, though I recognize more powerful amps might sound better.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

davidsh said:


> Now we are at it, have you ever driven a 006/T1 into clipping or the like and what did it take? It seems to have heaps of headroom to me, though I recognize more powerful amps might sound better.


 

 I have no chance of driving my T1 and the LS into clipping.


----------



## DefQon

davidsh said:


> Now we are at it, have you ever driven a 006/T1 into clipping or the like and what did it take? It seems to have heaps of headroom to me, though I recognize more powerful amps might sound better.


 
 I've driven the O2 Mk1 and my Omega into clipping on a T1S.


----------



## jcx

ES are capacitive loads, next to no current needed for low frequency, but paralleling 2-3 will increase higher frequency current demand, lower the amp's slew rate limit for those with a fixed bias/limited output current


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Got a package in the mail today! my friends and family don't really get why I'd get excited about a headphone but I figure you guys would get it


----------



## Lan647

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Got a package in the mail today! my friends and family don't really get why I'd get excited about a headphone but I figure you guys would get it


 

 Cool box! What's in it?


----------



## DefQon

Can't tell if serious ^.
  
 Are those 009's used? Box looks a bit blehh.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Ok I dusted off the ole glass head


They are 2 months old, I got them from the f/s thread but the box has been cross country twice now.


----------



## bearFNF

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Ok I dusted off the ole glass head
> 
> 
> They are 2 months old, I got them from the f/s thread but the box has been cross country twice now.


 
 Nice!! and Gongrats...


----------



## DefQon

Only if my 009's would arrive faster from PJ. Indeed congrats.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

thanks guys


----------



## 3X0

dailydoseofdaly said:


> They are 2 months old, I got them from the f/s thread but the box has been cross country twice now.


 
 Good. Apparently shipping can be considered preventive maintenance for electrostatics (well, not really -- moreso a remedy for channel imbalance).


----------



## kothganesh

dailydoseofdaly said:


> thanks guys


 
 ready to sell?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Seriously, well done.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

3x0 said:


> Good. Apparently shipping can be considered preventive maintenance for electrostatics (well, not really -- moreso a remedy for channel imbalance).



Haha good to know, put about 7hrs on them today and no driver weirdness, fingers crossed



kothganesh said:


> ready to sell? . Seriously, well done.



Not quite 
Yeah I definitely lucked out, I told the NC meet I would try and bring a pair not realizing the extent of the back order. I tried all the US distributors and they said 6 months and Price Japan was like 3 months which was still not in time for April 19th. I responded to a few people selling here but they would go so quickly. I ended up making a wtb ad not really expecting anything and in two hours bam a hit from a fellow selling a pair he bought from headamp a couple months back. So I hope everyone will be able to enjoy them and the mk1 at the meet coming up


----------



## DefQon

I have an idea. Send me your 009's for the meantime. While mine comes from PJ, change the shipping address to your location? So we both get to listen to some Stax. ?


----------



## s1rrah

3x0 said:


> Good. Apparently shipping can be considered preventive maintenance for electrostatics (well, not really -- moreso a remedy for channel imbalance).


 
  
 I think you jest but I did just sell some SR-307's that were shipped to California; me and the buyer, via tracking watched them first go to a zip code near him in California and then, oddly, they were shipped all the way to the east coast (NC) where they sat for a few days and then were shipped all the back to California where they (thank god) finally found the right address. 
  
 Strange...


----------



## DefQon

There is a thread on the initial release of the 009's where people bought them from around the world and had it shipped out and this initiated and omitted channel imbalance issues. It happens. It's happened to me as well having bought a second hand but mint condition 404 from YJ and then bam, imbalance and eventually a dead left channel.


----------



## Jonathan66100

mangler said:


> Does anybody here do anything to protect their stax from humidity with something like silica packets or a dehumidifier box ( like the kind you'd use for cameras)?


 
 Hi , 
 Yes, I put a dehumidifier next to my system stax.


----------



## martyn73

Hi,
  
 Please can anyone help? I'm thinking about replacing my Sennheiser HD 650 with Graham Slee Solo SRGII, PSU1 and Cardas cable with either a Stax 2170 or 3170. My main concern is avoiding bright headphones which emphasise sibilance in a recording. For this reason I recently sold my Sennheiser HD 700 which caused me to suffer discomfort due to the treble peak. 
  
 I have an old (2004) Stax basic system which stays with my computer and would be grateful for any views as to which Stax system to get. I've read posts here which suggest that the combination of the SR-307 and SRM-323S can produce a bright sound. Is this correct? My source will be an iPhone 5S which, before I get burned for heresy, does sound fine with my elderly Stax SR-202. I suffer from constant tinnitus (caused by cleaning my ears out to try custom iems) so avoiding headphones which are prone to revealing harsh Zzz or Sss sounds is imperative. I can just about afford a Stax 3170 but not the 407 headphones. I wonder what difference the "super engineering plastics" diaphragm makes compared to the SR-207 which presumably uses the older diaphragm.
  
 Thanks,
  
  
 Martyn


----------



## s1rrah

martyn73 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Please can anyone help? I'm thinking about replacing my Sennheiser HD 650 with Graham Slee Solo SRGII, PSU1 and Cardas cable with either a Stax 2170 or 3170. My main concern is avoiding bright headphones which emphasise sibilance in a recording. For this reason I recently sold my Sennheiser HD 700 which caused me to suffer discomfort due to the treble peak.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've had the SR-303's, SR-307's and currently the SR-404LE's ...
  
 The SR-307's were my least favorite of the three and yet they weren't fatiguing/sibilant in the highs at all; they were actually fatiguing in the mid-range, which I found to have a quite noticeable "etch" ... and a sort of "hardness" to the overall mid range tone. They are not bad headphones at all, but I thought the SR-303's were much better, more smooth and with noticeably better sound staging and especially bass. The SR-404LE's I find even better than both of the former mentioned Stax cans and definitely the best "Lambda" headphone I've personally heard.
  
 I personally would recommend you also explore the Koss ESP-950 electrostatic (it actually comes with it's own amp but can be used with Stax amps as well if you have an adapter made from the Koss extension cable that comes with the ESP-950 kit. 
  
 I find the Koss ESP-950's to be every bit as enjoyable as the SR-404LE's (I have both the Koss and the 404LE's currently) if not even *more* smooth and musical and engaging. The Koss cans are not quite as hyper detailed/analytic as the 404LE's but are in every way the equal of them in most other regards. Considering your comments about high freq's? Either a pair of SR-303's, SR-404's or especially the Koss 950's would be a sure thing.
  
 Best of luck...


----------



## DefQon

Just to also add, 303 is same as the 404. Different color, cables and pad color.


----------



## Crashem

Thinking about getting sr009. Question is what I have that can drive it. Will a parasound a51 amp drive stax okay with that woo device? If so, will the sq be way better with one of the high end dedicated headphone amps like blue Hawaii or cavalli?


----------



## DefQon

crashem said:


> Thinking about getting sr009. Question is what I have that can drive it. Will a parasound a51 amp drive stax okay with that woo device? If so, will the sq be way better with one of the high end dedicated headphone amps like blue Hawaii or cavalli?


 
  
 If you're driving the 009's off anything other than Stax amps then you need a Stax pro-bias compatible energizer adaptor. SRD-7 Pro, SRD-7 sb MK2. Or buy a Stax amp or after market e-stat amp. I recommend you build a KGSSHV though. Good first project to venture into DIY.


----------



## Crashem

defqon said:


> If you're driving the 009's off anything other than Stax amps then you need a Stax pro-bias compatible energizer adaptor. SRD-7 Pro, SRD-7 sb MK2. Or buy a Stax amp or after market e-stat amp. I recommend you build a KGSSHV though. Good first project to venture into DIY.


 

 I believe the Woo Audio WEE will make the Parasound A51 Stax compatible.  The question is how well with the Parasound drive SR009 with the Woo WEE.  Is a dedicated high end headphone amp much better in terms of sound quality?


----------



## Wildstar

Just a heads up for potential 307 and 407 buyers.
  
 I placed an order with PriceJapan for a 307 back in early Feb., and now they've sent me this:


> By unknown reason, Stax SR-307, SR-407 needs very long days to get it here. Probably, we will ship your SR-307 on March 17 or 18.


 
  
 Se there may be supply problems in Japan for these models.


----------



## okw3188

Just got a SRM-006ts from Price Japan and waiting for my headphone to arrive. While tuning the offset for the tubes, I discovered that 2 of the 4 big capacitor (220uF, 400V) and the 3 small ones (4700uF, 10V) around the transformer has about 370Vdc leaking on top of its body. Would appreciate if any user of this amp would verify on their set. It definitely looks not right to me.


----------



## 3X0

defqon said:


> It's happened to me as well having bought a second hand but mint condition 404 from YJ and then bam, imbalance and eventually a dead left channel.



Were you able to diagnose the root cause? It's very surprising to me that the driver would completely die (even operation at -20dB or -30dB would be more common.



defqon said:


> I recommend you build a KGSSHV though. Good first project to venture into DIY.



Would the KGSSHV not be a bit tonally bright with the 009? I think it's just right with the 007 but it's a bit too much for even the Omega.


----------



## negura

3x0 said:


> Would the KGSSHV not be a bit tonally bright with the 009? I think it's just right with the 007 but it's a bit too much for even the Omega.


 
  
 This has always been very interesting to me, ever since I bought my SR-009s and spent sufficient quality time with both the former and the SR-007s.
 While I am very sensitive to brightness, and it's one of the reasons I don't particularly prefer the HD800s for listening to music, I never had this kind of issue with the SR-009s.
  
 Furthermore, I agree the SR-007s are a bit "darker" than the 009s (on a KGSSHV), but it's in a peculiar way. The SR-007s are mostly more naturally laid back and less resolute, but not exactly less bright than the SR-009 in particular to the treble, especially upper treble. The frequency graphs would also confirm that. The SR-007s are very interesting in their way of being "dark" sounding on a lot of gear, but properly amp'ed on something like a KGSSHV they are not so much.
  
 If anything the SR-007s are harder to drive to sound closer to their best than the SR-009s.


----------



## Lan647

Compared the new AKG K812 to the HD 800, both from the Sennheiser HDVD800. Not very impressed by either. Then I tried the SRS-4170 system. 

 Ridiculous how superior it sounded.


----------



## Crashem

Any DIYers doing KGSSHV builds that you guys would recommend?


----------



## martyn73

s1rrah said:


> I've had the SR-303's, SR-307's and currently the SR-404LE's ...
> 
> The SR-307's were my least favorite of the three and yet they weren't fatiguing/sibilant in the highs at all; they were actually fatiguing in the mid-range, which I found to have a quite noticeable "etch" ... and a sort of "hardness" to the overall mid range tone. They are not bad headphones at all, but I thought the SR-303's were much better, more smooth and with noticeably better sound staging and especially bass. The SR-404LE's I find even better than both of the former mentioned Stax cans and definitely the best "Lambda" headphone I've personally heard.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi,
  
 Thanks for the reply. Please can you explain what is the noticeable 'etch'? Would you say the SR-307 is overall smoother than the SR-202?
  
 The Koss ESP-950s look interesting but I can't find a dealer in the UK. I had a pair of very cheap Koss headphones years ago which gradually disintegrated until finally ending up being recycled.
  
 Martyn


----------



## okw3188

Still waiting for someone to verify if they have same finding as me.


----------



## okw3188

okw3188 said:


> Just got a SRM-006ts from Price Japan and waiting for my headphone to arrive. While tuning the offset for the tubes, I discovered that 2 of the 4 big capacitor (220uF, 400V) and the 3 small ones (4700uF, 10V) around the transformer has about 370Vdc leaking on top of its body. Would appreciate if any user of this amp would verify on their set. It definitely looks not right to me.


 
 Still waiting for someone to verify if they have the same finding.


----------



## dude_500

okw3188 said:


> Still waiting for someone to verify if they have the same finding.


 
  
 I can't verify that this particular amp would do that on those caps, but I can verify that it is perfectly normal for the cans of electrolytic capacitors to be at a voltage other than ground. One situation where this would happen is if caps are put in series which is quite likely in an electrostatic headphone amp.


----------



## s1rrah

martyn73 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for the reply. Please can you explain what is the noticeable 'etch'? Would you say the SR-307 is overall smoother than the SR-202?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't really know how best to describe it except via words typically used to describe physical things: "dry" ... "hard" ... "etched" ... and it just occurs in certain portions of the midrange (again, I lack the terms here) ... especially on louder areas of the midrange (think female vocals, mid-key piano strikes, etc.) ...
  
 Again, hard to explain.
  
 As I've read about, I've come to see that the Lambdas in general, all have a bit of this (stats in general too though some, supposedly are immune) ... but in my experience, the 307's (and probably that whole series) suffer from it markedly more than the 303's and 404's ... and I've found the 404 Limited Editions to have the least of any Lambda I've heard (though I've not heard that many).
  
 Similarly, the Koss 950 cans are devoid of this mid range glare/hardness/etch. Really, just insofar as pure musical enjoyment? Including an appropriate amount of resolution, detail and sound stage? I'd say the Koss 950's are the best "all around" headphones I've ever owned (from Jazz to Metal to Rock to Chamber to Electronic to Every genre, really). And I've heard HD800's, all the Grados, all the other Senns, tons of AKG's, quite a few Stax, Beyer T1's, all the LCD variants (which I personally find hugely over rated) ... all the Shures ... 
  
 Really, the Koss cans are quite a find. I've had mine up as an interest check for a bit since getting the 404LE's ... since the latter do just about everything just as good ... but just can't bring myself to sell them.


----------



## cat6man

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Got a package in the mail today! my friends and family don't really get why I'd get excited about a headphone but I figure you guys would get it


 
  
 congrats!
 i look forward to seeing you update your dog's picture so that it is wearing the latest and greatest phones (i.e. 009s)!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Haha yeah I've had the same avatar pic since I joined, I'm probably due for an update


----------



## project86

Quick technical question for the group - anyone see a problem with buying a second-hand pair of Stax, which has been in storage for several years? Storage would be a good thing for dynamic headphones but is there anything I should be on the lookout for with stats?


----------



## dude_500

project86 said:


> Quick technical question for the group - anyone see a problem with buying a second-hand pair of Stax, which has been in storage for several years? Storage would be a good thing for dynamic headphones but is there anything I should be on the lookout for with stats?


 
  
 Storage isn't necessarily good for stats, as this could lead to the dreaded channel imbalance (especially if they were left charged before putting into storage - the good thing to do is touch the pins of the connector after unplugging to discharge it quickly). There's nothing you can really be on the lookout for short of testing them and seeing if they are channel balanced.


----------



## project86

dude_500 said:


> Storage isn't necessarily good for stats, as this could lead to the dreaded channel imbalance (especially if they were left charged before putting into storage - the good thing to do is touch the pins of the connector after unplugging to discharge it quickly). There's nothing you can really be on the lookout for short of testing them and seeing if they are channel balanced.


 
  
 Thanks.
  
 The Stax in question is an SR-4070 so A) it's rare and I don't want to pass it over without a good reason, and B) it isn't some 30 year old model.
  
 The seller tested and found no channel imbalance, and the physical condition is quite good... so is there anything else I should worry about?


----------



## bearFNF

project86 said:


> Quick technical question for the group - anyone see a problem with buying a second-hand pair of Stax, which has been in storage for several years? Storage would be a good thing for dynamic headphones but is there anything I should be on the lookout for with stats?


 

 I had my LNB and srd7/SB stored for more than 20 years and had no issues when I got them back out, just matters how they are stored as was said above.  Is definitely worth looking into the set you are talking about.


----------



## dukeskd

Storage is not a problem with 'stats. There will be a problem if the cans weren't packed well and humidity is rampant at the location.


----------



## project86

Seller wrapped them in a towel, then put them in the flight case, and stored that in a closet at his home in Southern California. So I'm thinking it should not be an issue. Thanks for the help everyone.


----------



## 3X0

As long as the towel wasn't wet, damp, or releasing fibers/dust I'd grab them. SR-4070s are rare enough as it is.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Yeah. I'd grab them.


----------



## DefQon

I remember you asking me through PM as to where is the best place to try and get the 4070's. Glad you're finally making the move, they are the rarest Stax e-stat around (more so then the Omega). When they do pop up the asking price for them sometimes is much much more then a brand new O2 MK2 itself.


----------



## project86

defqon said:


> I remember you asking me through PM as to where is the best place to try and get the 4070's. Glad you're finally making the move, they are the rarest Stax e-stat around (more so then the Omega). When they do pop up the asking price for them sometimes is much much more then a brand new O2 MK2 itself.


 
  
  
 Yep, pretty excited to finally snag one. Cost is a bit more than I paid for my (used) O2 MK2, but less than a new one.


----------



## DefQon

What amplification and source setup will you be running the 4070's through? You've got quite a large collection of DAC's already so I don't a inadequate source being the problem for you. hehe


----------



## project86

When all is said and done, it should be an Aurender X100L sending usb to a Resonessence Labs Invicta Mirus, balanced out to a KGSShv, and finally the SR-4070 or SR-007 mk2 depending in my mood. Should be fun.


----------



## dukeskd

project86 said:


> When all is said and done, it should be an Aurender X100L sending usb to a Resonessence Labs Invicta Mirus, balanced out to a KGSShv, and finally the SR-4070 or SR-007 mk2 depending in my mood. Should be fun.


 
 Exciting sounding setup! You are obliged to write a review now


----------



## project86

Oh, I forgot - Audiophilleo AP1 with PurePower in the chain between music server and DAC.
  
 Anyway, I'm very excited to eventually finish this setup. The only thing left would be SR-009 but I'm not sure I'd want to go there, considering I'll probably get more use from the 4070 due to the sealed aspect.


----------



## wink

I had a loan of a 4070 from another headfier when I was fixing his Stax amp.
  
 Very impressive headphone.
  
 If I wasn't retired I'd still be looking for a set.


----------



## preproman

So these can only be bought used at this point?  There not sold new anywhere?


----------



## 3X0

I believe they were a manufactured-on-order and ceremoniously discontinued at 4070 units. Whether this was originally intended or due to some other factors (e.g. poor sale's performance or high manufacturing costs) would be outside my area of knowledge.
  
 I had a brief listen last month and though they were just OK. I prefer the open Lambdas myself, as the character of the 4070 is something apart from all other Lambda series (from the first through the fourth generation).
  
 If you have the budget for the SR-009 I would just go ahead and get one as well. They are indeed very good and I would be tempted to get a pair if they weren't missing the euphonic soundstage characteristics and just a smidge of extra resolution I'm used to with the Omega.


----------



## martyn73

Hi,
  
 Please can anyone advise if the combination of a Stax SR-407 and SRM-323S will produce the "mid treble etch" sound which I'm keen to avoid? I read here that the SR-307 suffers from this characteristic or is the solid state SRM-323S amplifier at fault?
  
  
 Kind regards,
  
  
 Martyn


----------



## davidsh

martyn73 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Please can anyone advise if the combination of a Stax SR-407 and SRM-323S will produce the "mid treble etch" sound which I'm keen to avoid? I read here that the SR-307 suffers from this characteristic or is the solid state SRM-323S amplifier at fault?
> 
> ...


 
 The 307 is at fault and the 323 doesn't make it better from my understanding..
  
 All of the current series lambdas are said to be bright


----------



## 3X0

The 323S is a great amp. I listened to the KGSSHV and thought it was a bit bright in comparison. The 323S is surprisingly "just right" with the SR-009 and SR-Omega IMHO.
  
 Not quite the SR-007 though...


----------



## s1rrah

martyn73 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Please can anyone advise if the combination of a Stax SR-407 and SRM-323S will produce the "mid treble etch" sound which I'm keen to avoid? I read here that the SR-307 suffers from this characteristic or is the solid state SRM-323S amplifier at fault?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think I've mentioned this but if you can find some SR-303's or the regular SR-404's ... I think you would be very pleased. Perhaps the smoothest Lambdas I've heard ...
  
 The SR-307's (and I'd guess the 407's) are most likely not what you want ... they aren't necessarily bright in the high freqs (to my ear) but they sound sort of edgy and hard in the midrange ...


----------



## martyn73

s1rrah said:


> I think I've mentioned this but if you can find some SR-303's or the regular SR-404's ... I think you would be very pleased. Perhaps the smoothest Lambdas I've heard ...
> 
> The SR-307's (and I'd guess the 407's) are most likely not what you want ... they aren't necessarily bright in the high freqs (to my ear) but they sound sort of edgy and hard in the midrange ...


 
 Hi S1rrah,
  
 Thanks, getting a new SR-404 may be tricky and I'm reluctant to get a used pair from eBay. The SR-407 seems to have a slightly different specification to the SR-307 - would this make any difference?
  
 Kind regards,
  
  
 Martyn


----------



## NoPants

no


----------



## s1rrah

martyn73 said:


> Hi S1rrah,
> 
> Thanks, getting a new SR-404 may be tricky and I'm reluctant to get a used pair from eBay. The SR-407 seems to have a slightly different specification to the SR-307 - would this make any difference?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would think the entire "07" line would share the same, general, sonic qualities. This is the case with the 303/404 series and so I would assume it to be the same with the 307's family of ear speakers ...


----------



## dripf

s1rrah said:


> I think I've mentioned this but if you can find some SR-303's or the regular SR-404's ... I think you would be very pleased. Perhaps the smoothest Lambdas I've heard ...
> 
> The SR-307's (and I'd guess the 407's) are most likely not what you want ... they aren't necessarily bright in the high freqs (to my ear) but they sound sort of edgy and hard in the midrange ...


 
  
 I'm sorry, but this discussion is deranged madness. I'm saving up for one of these models and have been reading people's experiences with them.
  
 The 404 and 303 are supposed to 'suck', being white-hot strident with an "impossible peak" and no inter-unit variation by the word of internet Stax experts. The x07 series are supposed to be 'fixed', and you tell me the previous series is smooth by comparison?
  
 Did you mean your 404LE, or have you heard these?
  
 I've looked at the data on the internet available for the 404 and 207. Alongside a small high frequency attenuation, they are identical to the thirty year old model!. Where are these defects located? What is their Frequency and BW Oct? Three minutes and a youtube sine sweep is sufficient. By mids do you mean 2 or 8 kHz?
  
 As an aside, rates for second hand ebay systems are completely excessive. Averaging 75% of the price shipped of a 3170 to my country. That's for an srm-1 which has never seen maintenance and a lambda pro for which I must pore over photos if available for perforations and defects.


----------



## ThePartyPooper

I finally joined the Stax ranks. Now a proud owner of of an SR-202 and SRM-252II


----------



## arnaud

dripf said:


> I'm sorry, but this discussion is deranged madness. I'm saving up for one of these models and have been reading people's experiences with them.
> 
> The 404 and 303 are supposed to 'suck', being white-hot strident with an "impossible peak" and no inter-unit variation by the word of internet Stax experts. The x07 series are supposed to be 'fixed', and you tell me the previous series is smooth by comparison?




That was my understanding as well (haven't experienced a lambda that did not have this etch though).

I did not ever read about measurability of the famous treble etch, my guess is it lies in the csd curve / transient response (some underdamped resonance(s) in the mid or or upper midrange) you wouldn't see anything in the typical FR charts if these resonances don't stand out there (look for ridges that appears after the initial decay of the csd).


----------



## NoPants

dripf said:


> I'm sorry, but this discussion is deranged madness. I'm saving up for one of these models and have been reading people's experiences with them.
> 
> The 404 and 303 are supposed to 'suck', being white-hot strident with an "impossible peak" and no inter-unit variation by the word of internet Stax experts. The x07 series are supposed to be 'fixed', and you tell me the previous series is smooth by comparison?
> 
> ...


 
 There are differences in the driver tension that differentiates many (not all) of the lambda models. Among the current offerings the 207 is supposed to be the best (not my account), and I imagine by their used prices the 40x, 30x models you should be able to audition something that fits your needs.
  
 You are looking in the wrong place if you want quantifiable data, and I'm not sure what you were looking for by reading people's subjective experiences with them? I'm sorry to hear about your import woes.
  
 There is also a breakdown of the SR-507 somewhere that points out some structural frame/driver assembly changes that stax adopted over the adhesive-based(?) solutions of the previous generations. This is all from poor memory so take it how you will.


----------



## Jonathan66100

thepartypooper said:


> I finally joined the Stax ranks. Now a proud owner of of an SR-202 and SRM-252II


 
 Good choice : D
 He will give you envy to discover of other pearl of Stax : )


----------



## DefQon

dripf said:


> I'm sorry, but this discussion is deranged madness. I'm saving up for one of these models and have been reading people's experiences with them.
> 
> The 404 and 303 are supposed to 'suck', being white-hot strident with an "impossible peak" and no inter-unit variation by the word of internet Stax experts. The x07 series are supposed to be 'fixed', and you tell me the previous series is smooth by comparison?


 
  
 Don't know which Stax experts you're referring to but those that have owned, heard the whole lot here including myself would put the new x07 Lambda's on the bottom of the list. The 207 is a slight exception.


----------



## 3X0

dripf said:


> *I'm sorry, but this discussion is deranged madness.* I'm saving up for one of these models and have been reading people's experiences with them.


 
 This is the only statement I would believe to be accurate regarding the Lambda generations.
  
 Even impressions on the new Lambda line by the Don (where is he these days?) have flip-flopped over the course of one or two years.
  
 I would say that the only conclusive way to be sure is to hear them side-by-side, but this is of course easier said than done.
  
 This isn't just a case restricted to Lambdas either. Read comparative impressions between the SR-007 vs. SR-009, SR-007 vs. SR-Omega, and SR-009 vs. SR-Omega and you'll find the same complete absence of a proper consensus.


----------



## davidsh

3x0 said:


> This is the only statement I would believe to be accurate regarding the Lambda generations.
> 
> Even impressions on the new Lambda line by the Don (where is he these days?) have flip-flopped over the course of one or two years.
> 
> I would say that the only conclusive way to be sure is to hear them side-by-side, but this is of course easier said than done.


 
 True. Proper general consensuses seem to be pretty hard to reach within the realm of stax and this thread.


----------



## bearFNF

davidsh said:


> True. Proper general consensuses seem to be pretty hard to reach within the realm of stax and this thread.


 

 I disagree...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 just cuz...
  
 But on another note, 3X0 "The 323S is surprisingly "just right" with the SR-009 and SR-Omega IMHO."  So you would consider this a viable option for an interim amp while waiting on a TOTL (BHSE or the like)?


----------



## s1rrah

dripf said:


> I'm sorry, but this discussion is deranged madness. I'm saving up for one of these models and have been reading people's experiences with them.
> 
> The 404 and 303 are supposed to 'suck', being white-hot strident with an "impossible peak" and no inter-unit variation by the word of internet Stax experts. The x07 series are supposed to be 'fixed', and you tell me the previous series is smooth by comparison?


 
  
 Had the 303's and now the 404LE's ... I find them very similar and not white hot strident at all. 
  
 Also had the 307's very recently, for about three months, and did not find them white hot strident at all, either. I did find to be rather glaring in the midrange compared to the 303's and 404LE's, though. So much to my ear that I sold them pretty quick. 
  
 White hot strident? I'd call Grado RS1's at times white hot strident ... and the GS1000's I had for a very long time and mostly loved to be occasionally off-white hot strident ... but any of the Lambda's I've heard? I haven't found any of them to be strident in the high frequencies at all. Just varying levels of "etch" in the mid range. 
  
 I've found the 303's, 404LE's ... and especially the pair of Koss ESP-950's I currently have to be the least "etched" of any thing I've heard. And I haven't even started up the ranks of the really expensive Stax stuff yet.
  
 Get the cans and decide for yourself mate.


----------



## Argybargy

The 507s I owned had zero etch and no hot treble. In fact, I thought it sounded slightly warm. The size and shape of your ears as well as how well you can seal the phones will have a BIG effect on the sound. This is one reason for the lack of consensus on many models.


----------



## ThePartyPooper

jonathan66100 said:


> Good choice : D
> He will give you envy to discover of other pearl of Stax : )


 
 I just hope I get the chance for my wallet to recover first!


----------



## milosz

My Lambda Signature have a very nice etch.  I like the etch.  It is some kind of treble emphasis- either in the frequency domain or the time domain, or both, but it has a certain subtlety to it that keeps from being painful / irritating, IMHO. It's a treble emphasis of some kind, bringing out out detail without being  overly strident or tizzy.  Somewhere I've read that the Signatures etch is the most easily heard of all the Stax headphones. Could be. I had a pair of 'regular' Lambda Pros and they were closer to neutral, didn't notice any etch in comparison to the Lambda Signature's. 
  
 The etch makes treble detail stand out a little, which can be a fun sound.  Accurate / neutral  -  not so much.  But it can be likeable.  And also can be useful when trying to hear a specific thing in a recording.  If I only had ONE pair of headphones, though, they could not be Lambda Signatures- it's nice to have the option of listening to the etch, but I wouldn't want it to be the ONLY way I could hear music.


----------



## davidsh

milosz said:


> My Lambda Signature have a very nice etch.  I like the etch.  It is some kind of treble emphasis- either in the frequency domain or the time domain, or both, but it has a certain subtlety to it that keeps from being painful / irritating, IMHO. It's a treble emphasis of some kind, bringing out out detail without being  overly strident or tizzy.  Somewhere I've read that the Signatures etch is the most easily heard of all the Stax headphones. Could be. I had a pair of 'regular' Lambda Pros and they were closer to neutral, didn't notice any etch in comparison to the Lambda Signature's.
> 
> The etch makes treble detail stand out a little, which can be a fun sound.  Accurate / neutral  -  not so much.  But it can be likeable.  And also can be useful when trying to hear a specific thing in a recording.  If I only had ONE pair of headphones, though, they could not be Lambda Signatures- it's nice to have the option of listening to the etch, but I wouldn't want it to be the ONLY way I could hear music.


 
 Yeah, with the LS it just sounds like there are more details without getting harsh or jarring sound, kinda too detailed and airy to be neutral. My understanding is, that there are 3 narrow peaks in the treble if I remember correctly.
  
 The 307 oth sounds nothing like the LS with regards to 'treble etch' going from memory.


----------



## zolkis

My 507 doesn't have etch either, and it's warm sounding. As open as the HD800, but warmer and less grainy.
  
 But this post is about the SR-007 Mk1. I always wondered why Spritzer says it's the best headphones Stax made. He called my attention to setting the headband properly.
 I've been playing a lot with the 007, and have ended up with some delightful discoveries.
  
 While wobbling around the 009, I discovered the versatility of the 007-Mk1, which I can now make sound like... I want it. It can sound closed in with a lot of deep bass or as open as the 009 (within some debated limits of course) with more neutral and dry sound. Cutting the crap, here are my learnings:
  
1. It is so extremely sensitive to headband and earpad adjustments (even slight mods). The first revelation came when I made the headbands shape similar to that of the 507, i.e. flatter in the middle, the leather headband almost touching the metal bands. Then, set the angle of the drivers from the ends of the metal headbands, to follow the head and ensure even and the right amount of pressure around the ear. A lot of variables on how to achieve this one. The effect is opening up the sound and maximizing the snap and bass impact.
  
2. After the headbands are properly adjusted, then by rotating the earpad springs around the clock while keeping the pads still, the sound is affected between warm, melodic & a bit closed sound to completely open, neutral and more dry, and in between the two ends. I love it - and for what it's worth, I usually end up settling the spring at the positions mapping to 4-5 pm on the clock, where it has deep, well defined bass with an excellent base resonance, and it's open and fluid sounding in the same time. It can sound a bit syrupy and laid back around the 3 pm position, and getting more dry and more forward at 6 pm.
  
3. Setting the spring is easy since after a lot of testing, I stopped using the grills, and keep the phones in the box when not used, to prevent dust damage. Fortunately the air is very clean here.
  
4. Since I have 2 pads, and older and a new one, I modified the old pads while comparing them to the new. Based on countless experiments, I can say the best mod is to trim the soft part of the internal foam just lightly (~ 2 mm) from the thin (front) end, making it tilt more. This also accentuates the effect of setting the spring position. Skip this if you want, as this is non-reversible, or like me, do it with one pad and keep the other unchanged.
  
 In the end I love this versatility to set the sonics to my mood and the music. I don't miss the 009 that much any more (the 007 is kind of more fluid). The SR-009 definitely has its own merits, but now I know what Spritzer meant about the excellency of the 007 Mk1. I can still imagine better sound, but it's good enough for me for a long while.
  
 I think it is impossible to review the 007 Mk1 properly, unless the reviewer takes the time to properly adjust and personalize the 007. My settings are likely non-optimal for others, but my wife and kids hear similar differences with it as I do, so the mods definitely have some value.
  
 I would be useful if 007 Mk1 owners could try and verify these, except perhaps step 4.


----------



## paradoxper

I can really relate to this. After some time fussing around I really found the 007 sound to open up nicely. Biggest gains were with improved bass impact, though it is still light compared to some ortho's (I can live with it.) I also found the spot for me where the phones really disappear which helps increase that sense of sound coming from behind you. It catches me off guard quite often.


----------



## 3X0

bearfnf said:


> But on another note, 3X0 "The 323S is surprisingly "just right" with the SR-009 and SR-Omega IMHO."  So you would consider this a viable option for an interim amp while waiting on a TOTL (BHSE or the like)?


 
 I can't say, but I tend to be far more of an objectivist than most here (and have an appropriately skeptical wallet).
  
 I'm not sure I'd be able to discern improvements in the BHSE versus anything lesser with any semblance of confidence, but I have yet to hear it at length.
  
 I certainly didn't perceive the KGSSHV to be much of an improvement over the 323S and in fact took some issue with what I perceived to be a slightly bright tonality with the Omega (not so much with the 007Mk1). The caveat is that meet conditions are of course far short of conducive to meaningful comparisons, but I was not inspired to rush out and commission a DIY build from what I heard.
  
 The 323S is just a $500-700 amplifier that gets the job done without any issues worth crying about. I'm definitely in the minority here but  I'll sooner spend 10x as much on another SR-Omega than anything else...


----------



## spritzer

3x0 said:


> This is the only statement I would believe to be accurate regarding the Lambda generations.
> 
> Even impressions on the new Lambda line by the Don (where is he these days?) have flip-flopped over the course of one or two years.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've never flip-flopped with the x07 range, they were awful from the day I received my first 507 with the 207 being the sole exception.  They aren't perfect (too bright/forward as all the new models are) but come closest to the ideal sound signature.  Dirt cheap too... 
  
 Don't see much reason to visit HF any more but I still stop by to reply to PM's. 
  


zolkis said:


> My 507 doesn't have etch either, and it's warm sounding. As open as the HD800, but warmer and less grainy.
> 
> But this post is about the SR-007 Mk1. I always wondered why spritzer says it's the best headphones Stax made. He called my attention to setting the headband properly.
> I've been playing a lot with the 007, and have ended up with some delightful discoveries.
> ...


 
  
 Nice to see when somebody gets it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  On my todo list though is to install a new diaphragm in a set of 009's to show just how good they could have been and indeed the prototypes were.


----------



## TheAttorney

Hi zolkis, what do you mean by "the spring"?
  
 Is this the bar going from center to circumference? If so, then I don't need to remove the grill to rotate it. Removing the grill is something I'm just never going to do, irrespective of the potential rewards (I leave my 007's out all the time, with no ill effects after 5 years).
  
 I'm not one who has the patience to make lots of minute adjustments - I much prefer to fit-and-forget, but I have increasingly noticed that rotating the pads of the 007, even by a small amount, can noticeably change the sound. Spritzer has mentioned this in the past. I've always settled for the seam to be forward and slightly up and then not worried about it. But exactly how "slightly up" does affect the sound - I wish I hadn't noticed this.


----------



## DefQon

How can people find the 507's warm sounding, What?


----------



## zolkis

theattorney said:


> Hi zolkis, what do you mean by "the spring"?
> 
> Is this the bar going from center to circumference? If so, then I don't need to remove the grill to rotate it. Removing the grill is something I'm just never going to do, irrespective of the potential rewards (I leave my 007's out all the time, with no ill effects after 5 years).
> 
> I'm not one who has the patience to make lots of minute adjustments - I much prefer to fit-and-forget, but I have increasingly noticed that rotating the pads of the 007, even by a small amount, can noticeably change the sound. Spritzer has mentioned this in the past. I've always settled for the seam to be forward and slightly up and then not worried about it. But exactly how "slightly up" does affect the sound - I wish I hadn't noticed this.


 
  
 Yes, that bar is the "radius" of the spring, which is circular and tensions the earpad. The spring can rotate inside the earpad (moves easily counter-clockwise, but clockwise not so much, because the construction of the spring). The earpad can also rotate, but in the mods I have been describing they were kept fixed so that the joint pointed at 3 o'clock.
  
 Now as the spring rotates inside the pad, the portion of the earpad where the bar is pointing to is slightly more elevated. On most 007's the bar is also set in 3 o'clock direction, but for me it sounds better around 5 o'clock - note that I have recessed the front depth of the pad about 2-3 mm by trimming the internal foam thickness, making the midrange more open. The spring can completely counteract this mod when set at 3 o'clock, and enable it more and more as it is rotated downwards to 4-5-6 o'clock. The relative max effect is at 6 o'clock, so I have a quarter of the circle to do adjustments. Setting through other quarters made different effects, which were not so desirable to me as they didn't sound as consistent from top to bottom.


----------



## zolkis

defqon said:


> How can people find the 507's warm sounding, What?


 
  
 I guess it goes with the source, since to my ears it sounds warm even with the 323S. Yes, it also goes with the ears, mine are not young any more - yet the HD800 still irritates me whereas the 507 does not (usually). It is indeed more "etched" than the 007, but not enough to call it etched, somehow my brain can adjust to it easily, unlike to most dynamic headphones which are more etched than the 507 and I can't make peace with them. Likely that adaptation limit is different from person to person.


----------



## DefQon

Theres no doubt the 507 is a bright sounding headphone (guess age contributes as well) but the brightness of the 507 is to the point it is cold and clinical, of the few times I've heard it and tried to like it it was more irritating to the ears then my HD800's of the time.


----------



## Argybargy

I specifically bought the 507 because I wanted cold and clinical, what I got was warmth, so I sold it. Nothing wrong with my hearing as I find the srxmk3 slightly etched with a bit of glare to the treble and the 007mk1 to be slightly dark and the sr-5 to have fantastic musical mids.

I suspect there is more sample variation with stats than we might think, as well as the different SQ arising from variability from pad fit/seal.


----------



## arnaud

defqon said:


> Theres no doubt the 507 is a bright sounding headphone (guess age contributes as well) but the brightness of the 507 is to the point it is cold and clinical, of the few times I've heard it and tried to like it it was more irritating to the ears then my HD800's of the time.




Hopefully you're not diseappointed with the 009, some say the voicing of 507 is similar (can't say personnally, haven't bothered checking the new lambda series).


----------



## padam

While still slightly on the forward side, the SR009 is much smoother so they are not that similar in my opinion.
 I doubt that there would be considerable sample variation, more like different systems.


----------



## DutchGFX

I have some Lambda Pros and an SRM-006t coming in this weekend hopefully. I think I need a step down transformer right? 

Anyone got any thoughts on Lambda Pros?they are the original from 1984, ithibj and also the 006t is the older version


----------



## DefQon

dutchgfx said:


> I have some Lambda Pros and an SRM-006t coming in this weekend hopefully. I think I need a step down transformer right?
> 
> Anyone got any thoughts on Lambda Pros?they are the original from 1984, ithibj and also the 006t is the older version


 
  
 No thoughts as long as they work, no channel imbalance or damaged dust filter that can cause squealing, sit back and enjoy the music. The 006 according to schematics from the Stax Mafia is pretty much a modernised T1/T1S, it will balance nicely with the Lambda Pro's.


----------



## 3X0

spritzer said:


> I've never flip-flopped with the x07 range, they were awful from the day I received my first 507 with the 207 being the sole exception.  They aren't perfect (too bright/forward as all the new models are) but come closest to the ideal sound signature.  Dirt cheap too...


 
 Yeah, I had this argument with DefQon earlier and he was right about your present opinion of them.
  
 But I summed up the tidbits here. Your seemingly positive impressions seemed to have been from late 2010 in "that other forum" whereas your posts from 2013-onwards here have been pretty negative about them.
  
 Thanks for confirming your present opinion of them.


----------



## DutchGFX

Following my previous post, is there any easy way to change voltage on my 006t. I don't want to always use Thant massive step down transformer, the amp itself is big enough lol


----------



## spritzer

3x0 said:


> Yeah, I had this argument with DefQon earlier and he was right about your present opinion of them.
> 
> But I summed up the tidbits here. Your seemingly positive impressions seemed to have been from late 2010 in "that other forum" whereas your posts from 2013-onwards here have been pretty negative about them.
> 
> Thanks for confirming your present opinion of them.


 
  
 Like all Lambdas, they have their good points.  The bass on the new Lambda's is the best from any stock unit though the comfort on the 507 is the worst of the lot.  Even the Lambda Pro do some things well but in the end the flaws are just too grating to enjoy the set.  Same thing applies to the 507, that midrange shout and general bright nature means they aren't what I'd call good.  Anybody who thinks the 507 is worth their asking price should try a fully functional LNS.


----------



## SilverEars

Can the SR-252 power the SR-407 to it's potential?  Also is the SR-407, Lambda pro level quality or is it way less?  What is the difference between 407 and the Lambda pro?


----------



## takato14

silverears said:


> Can the SR-252 power the SR-407 to it's potential?  Also is the SR-407, Lambda pro level quality or is it way less?  What is the difference between 407 and the Lambda pro?


 
 I'd go for the SR-207 instead. The higher SR-x07 headphones are supposed to be unbearably bright and harsh.


----------



## Lan647

takato14 said:


> I'd go for the SR-207 instead. The higher SR-x07 headphones are supposed to be unbearably bright and harsh.


 
  
 The SR-407 is neither bright nor harsh, at least not from the 006TS. Sounds absolutely beautiful and much better and smoother than all dynamics I've listened to thus far.


----------



## davidsh

307 is definitely bright and etched on T1, though not harsh


----------



## SilverEars

You guys haven't answered my question.  I've heard Lambda pro is great value, and I was wondering which of the X07 is the same level as Lambda pro.  Also, so that means if the higher levels are brighter than the 207, I could be content with it until I do a leap to 007 or 009?
  
 207 comes with a wimpy amp, does a better amp do it justice? 
  
 Would the SR-252 under power the 407?


----------



## davidsh

If I would buy new it'd be a 207 and srm323.

Without going further into why and such, the people in this thread and other Stax threads are infamous for not answering too many questions etc.


----------



## dripf

Question:
  
 The SR-007 has reduced capacitance over lambdas, meaning the current required to avoid clipping at 20 kHz for a given volume is also less than lambdas.
  
 Why then, is it said that the O2 'wants power more than anything'?


----------



## realmassy

defqon said:


> How can people find the 507's warm sounding, What?



It was never bright for me either, or cold/analytical. Lovely headphones and timbrically close to the 009. In fact the 009 are brighter (but never too bright). The only problem with the 507 is the monitor-like sound.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

takato14 said:


> I'd go for the SR-207 instead. The higher SR-x07 headphones are supposed to be unbearably bright and harsh.


 In all seriousness, why are all the new lambdas so bright? They are supposed to be the pinnacle of audio. Is this signature preferred in other parts of the world or something?


----------



## Lan647

keithpgdrb said:


> In all seriousness, why are all the new lambdas so bright? *They are supposed to be the pinnacle of audio.* Is this signature preferred in other parts of the world or something?


 
  
 They are. Listen to an HD 800 and then switch to a 407... it's a different level IMO.


----------



## mangler

keithpgdrb said:


> In all seriousness, why are all the new lambdas so bright? They are supposed to be the pinnacle of audio. Is this signature preferred in other parts of the world or something?



I think that by now it's pretty clear that some people find them bright and others don't. Some find them god aweful (especially many long time Stax heads) but coming from dynamics I feel that my 507 is fairly balanced and smooth. Having said that, if the 009 does share a similar tonality with the 507 but is a bit brighter, then I'm happy to stick with my 507 and 007. I love the 507, but if it were much brighter I probably wouldn't care for it as much. 

PS I live in the US, and I don't think we're all treble heads


----------



## davidsh

Got a cold... Talk about bright sound from my 307. And imbalance.. Sigh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It's funny how there are so many different opinions on the new x07 series. 
  
 It's also interesting how some just swear to 'stats and others don't.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

mangler said:


> I think that by now it's pretty clear that some people find them bright and others don't. Some find them god aweful (especially many long time Stax heads) but coming from dynamics I feel that my 507 is fairly balanced and smooth. Having said that, if the 009 does share a similar tonality with the 507 but is a bit brighter, then I'm happy to stick with my 507 and 007. I love the 507, but if it were much brighter I probably wouldn't care for it as much.
> 
> PS I live in the US, and I don't think we're all treble heads


 
 all very interesting.   I just wonder why everything seems to moving to a brighter signature.  all the new lambdas are on the bright side (to most).  the hd800 is notoriously bright.  Yet most of the current orthodynamic flagships are MUCH darker in comparison, and a LOT of people love them.  is this just different companies philosophies in sound production?
  
 I suppose each technology has its strong points.  Orthos seem to rule the world of bass reproduction, but i have yet to hear one with good airy highs..  Stats are clear winners to me for airy highs and midrange, but the bass reproduction lacks.  (I've not spent any time with the top tier stax, so I know its different up there)
  
 having said all that, I'm just trying to figure out why stax voices the current lambda line in the way that they do.  especially when most of us would (and do) choose discontinued lambda models over the current lineup.  Shouldn't they try to reproduce the characteristics of their best models, then make them better from there?


----------



## arnaud

It's been discussed a few times and there are different suppositions that can be made:

1. More forward voicing to have a more engaging sound which helps with in-store auditions against competing dynamics and other orthos.

2. A bi-product of a search toward ever more efficient / easy to drive & transparent transducers. People in the dyi arena are happy with much thicker milar films and wider spacers than Stax is using with its most recent offerings apparently. As has been often said, amps are the weak knee if stax products as competing offerings don't need such energizers. Stax sells almost at a loss per some of the mafia's allegations and the product follow strict weight and budget constraints. Stax hence has much interest in releasing easier to driver earspeakers.

3. A change in taste / hearing of the people involved in the voicing of products. From my discussions with them, it's not just one person who calls the shots but the panel is certainly made of similar experience long time stax staff.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

thank you for a well written response.  I apologize if I brought up something thats been covered at length.


----------



## TheAttorney

zolkis said:


> But this post is about the SR-007 Mk1....The first revelation came when I made the headbands shape similar to that of the 507, i.e. flatter in the middle, the leather headband almost touching the metal bands. Then, set the angle of the drivers from the ends of the metal headbands, to follow the head and ensure even and the right amount of pressure around the ear.
> .....I think it is impossible to review the 007 Mk1 properly, unless the reviewer takes the time to properly adjust and personalize the 007.


 
 I've previously done the  "bending the front arc" tweak to reduce the front of pad pressure, but what's the purpose of flattening the top of the arcs? If it's to reduce the overall pad pressure, then I imagine that's only applicable for "big headed" people - I find the default arc setup already gives me a fairly loose fit.  
  
 BTW, I tried rotating the spring as you have done. Sound seemed to change, but not conclusive as to what's best, so for the moment it's back to pointing to the seam. I guess this is more significant with the foam change
  
 Finally, have you tried damping the arcs? As per edstrelow's thread.
  
 I agree with your last point, particularly for those who find the 007's too dark or lacking bass impact. These types of changes do open it up nicely. However, all this flexibility is a double edged sword for the impatient: It's great that you can tweak it to sound brilliant, but it's also a drag that you have to tweak it to sound brilliant.


----------



## dukeskd

The warmest/darkest sounding lambda in my opinion is the Lambda Nova Signature. It sounds very similar to the 007 but lacks the bass response of its bigger brother.
 My favorite Lambdas are definitely the Lambda Normal Bias and Lambda Signature from the 80s.


----------



## DefQon

There is so much wrong in the few posts made by people who have not heard or obviously have no clue what they are talking about. 
  
 I'll make judgement on these posts later on when I'm sober.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

defqon said:


> There is so much wrong in the few posts made by people who have not heard or obviously have no clue what they are talking about.
> 
> I'll make judgement on these posts later on *when I'm sober.*


 
 Those people will have to wait for a loooong time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Ali


----------



## zolkis

theattorney said:


> I've previously done the  "bending the front arc" tweak to reduce the front of pad pressure, but what's the purpose of flattening the top of the arcs? If it's to reduce the overall pad pressure, then I imagine that's only applicable for "big headed" people - I find the default arc setup already gives me a fairly loose fit.


 
  
 Correct. No particular purpose, other than setting the correct distance between the two earspeakers, then using the angling to follow one's head shape.
 I have tried a loose fit too (achievable by flattening the arc and/or modifying the angle), and it sounded nice and open with a bigger soundstage, but it is inferior to a medium tight fit with the correct shape: the latter is the same open, has better focused sound stage, snappier bass with deeper string resonance.
  
 Then, too wide (too flat) headband shape is not good, either, somehow sounds like out of phase speakers.
  


> BTW, I tried rotating the spring as you have done. Sound seemed to change, but not conclusive as to what's best, so for the moment it's back to pointing to the seam. I guess this is more significant with the foam change.


 
  
 Indeed the foam change makes it more prominent. In my case it is obvious and quite big effect (for me). I think the effect is more noticeable when everything else is correctly set: this is the last fine-tuning which should be done.
  


> Finally, have you tried damping the arcs? As per edstrelow's thread.


 
  
 The arcs don't really bother me, until I hit them . Yes, I tried, it's not significant IMO, and it looks bad. In turn, I was playing with the thought to damp the spring, the circumference of the earspeakers below the pads, and perhaps the perforated plate too, with thin felt pads - likely would make the highs even more "calm". But this is a bit difficult tuning, and in the end I am fine with the treble of the 007. Likely it is worth doing with the 009, but maybe not with the 007.
  


> I agree with your last point, particularly for those who find the 007's too dark or lacking bass impact. These types of changes do open it up nicely. However, all this flexibility is a double edged sword for the impatient: It's great that you can tweak it to sound brilliant, but it's also a drag that you have to tweak it to sound brilliant.


 
  
 I couldn't agree more. Very few manufacturers seem to put enough money in truly optimizing the acoustic environment of the headphones. That's why I mentioned in some earlier post that e.g. earpad design is like black magic. I don't know if there is a reliable methodology (e.g. finite element analysis) which can help designing earpads given the earspeakers' measurements.
  
 For instance, I have also played with e.g. the HE-500, and that was a lot easier than with the 007. Without earpads the HE500 sounded really good, except tizzy and zingy, but bass was excellent, clean and resonant, and was a better starting point that the all-midrange honky sound of the 007 without the earpads. The earpads used in the orthos and the stats are clearly old-school textbook golden paths, unlike the pads on the Senn HD800 or AKG K812. I wonder what earpads could Sennheiser or AKG design for the stats...
  
 But then this may all be mistaken, as the earpads of the 007 are actually close to an optimum, especially with the versatility offered by the spring design (though I don't know if that is a side effect or a planned one). Given that earpads cannot really be manufactured at exact tolerances, and because the 007 is so sensitive to this, it is very hard to 'standardize' tuning the 007's. The manufacturer should do this, measure every single headphone like Sennheiser does, and fine-tune each piece separately until they are near optimum. At least my current settings seem to work well with most of my friends and family, so there is a better optimum than the factory default. Stax, take the point for next products.


----------



## DutchGFX

Just some small observations, the Lambda Pro / SRM-006t combo is simply sublime with Acoustic music and Rock, but seams to struggle a bit with Jazz. I do really like the combo, and the headphones are quite comfortable too.

Is it necessary to cover the headphones when not in use?

Thanks guys, and I look forward to reading more of this ongoing debate about new vs old stax


----------



## kothganesh

dutchgfx said:


> Just some small observations, the Lambda Pro / SRM-006t combo is simply sublime with Acoustic music and Rock, but seams to struggle a bit with Jazz. I do really like the combo, and the headphones are quite comfortable too.
> 
> Is it necessary to cover the headphones when not in use?
> 
> Thanks guys, and I look forward to reading more of this ongoing debate about new vs old stax


 
 Hi, what aspect of the Pro did you like with respect to rock music ? As for covering the HPs, I put my 007s in the Stax bag and wrap that bag in a towel ! Where I live, humidity can get very uncomfortable.


----------



## milosz

I am currently selling off almost all of my dynamic and planar headphones.  And selling a bunch of headphone amps too. I have just gotten to like electrostatic headphones too much, I don't listen to the others any more.  I went through 2 months where I tried to listen to my LCD-2's and HD800s more- and they do have their strengths- but then I went back to Stax and ESP-950's  and I just don't think I can listen to the HD800s or LCD2s any more.  I mean, I really WANT to love the HD800's, they do a lot things right. But I just can't handle their treble.  It hurts my ears.  I have a bit of hyperacusis right right the HD800's have their emphasis and I just can't listen to them. 
  
 I think there's also something about my overall sound preferences -  I have had a TON of speakers over the years including some very pricey models. Right now my favorites are my refurbished Quad ESL-57's. Yeah, they don't play REAL loud.  The deepest bass is M.I.A.,  and the treble is a little "plasticky" sounding. But there is something about their sound, especially the midrange and upper bass, that is _*just*_ what I want, what I'm looking for,  from music playback.  My other system, which I also like very much, is a pair of Magneplanar MG-3.6's, triamped using a DEQX.  These have subwoofers as well, below 45 Hz using an additional digital crossover.  The imaging from these is amazing- the DEQX brings the performance of this system in the time domain into incredible focus.
  
 So BOTH of my favorite speakers are panel speakers.  Whatever it is that they do so well is apparently what I also like about electrostatic headphones.  More accurate? Flatter?  Lower distortion?  Better time-domain performance? I don't know.  I don't think it's really related to "accuracy"  or "neutrality" - there's just something in the way they present sound that I lock onto.
  
 I wonder- are the other Stax fanatics also big fans of electrostatic speakers like I am?


----------



## DefQon

milosz said:


> I wonder- are the other Stax fanatics also big fans of electrostatic speakers like I am?


 
  
 I like the upper echeon Martin Logans and Nakamichi Dragons. I did not like the Quads when I heard them.


----------



## davidsh

Funny thing, just about any headphone I hear sounds 'off' and unnatural compared to a good electrostat, especially in the treble/higher mids.


----------



## dukeskd

The 'stat treble and mid-range is indeed unmatched.


----------



## DefQon

Sometimes the treble and mids are too emphasised on the stats including the 009.


----------



## zolkis

milosz said:


> I wonder- are the other Stax fanatics also big fans of electrostatic speakers like I am?


 
  
I didn't happen to like the Martin Logan variety, they have actually less resolution than e.g. a Dunlavy SC-IV / V / VI. For instance, listening to Choro Luoco from Patitucci's Communion, on the biggest ML's I could not discern the sax from the voices, whereas they appeared separately contoured and nicely layed out on the Dunlavys. OK, the Dunlavy's are phase coherent, and have better step response than most headphones, and even some amplifiers .
  
 Then, I still preferred dynamic speakers over the Quad ESL-2905, and also over ESL-63 + REL subs. I can understand the magic of the ESL-57, but I'd miss orchestral dynamic range and slam, even with good subs.
  
 Better (hybrid) stat speakers may be JansZen, or PIO Sound speakers.
  
 Maggies are not stats, and I'd likely choose JansZen over them anyway.
  
 If you like Stax sound, try listening to - increasing order - Dunlavy (at least SC-IV), the bigger Harbeth, or JansZen speakers. You can also go exotic with Acapella horn speakers with the plasma tweeter (a bit too bright by default, but it is adjustable), or some of the Magico speakers, but the former get very close and are astronomic bargains in comparison, sounding very similar to my 007, except that speakers have much better sound stage at the expense of room and cabinet interactions.
  
 In summary, for my taste stat technology doesn't scale well... it is [one of] the best tech for headphones, but I prefer good electrodynamic speakers ATM, when installed properly. It is possible that advanced materials will change my opinion in the future.
  
 All IMHO and YMMV. And sorry for the off-topic.


----------



## 3X0

I think electrostats spoiling you rotten against electrodynamics and isodynamics is a rule rather than an exception.

I think the comparatively few that go back are those that seek the higher distortion levels in bass that impart false slam/impact which might be more suitable to their preferences.

Others might be put off by the high budget requirements posited by many. With the notion that nothing less than a KGSSHV with a SR-007 would be worthwhile, they miss out on affordable options like the ESP950. On the amp side a SRM-717 or SRM-323S would be sufficient for many.

I just don't see (or hear) any other compelling reasons.

The treble (be it lack thereof or behavior) is the exact same reason I consider even the mighty HD 800, LCD-3 or TH-900 to be low-end garbage in relative terms.


----------



## chinsettawong

milosz said:


> I wonder- are the other Stax fanatics also big fans of electrostatic speakers like I am?


 
  
 I'm definitely like you.  I only listen to electrostatic headphones and loudspeakers.


----------



## astrostar59

karlgerman said:


> Soundwise my 006t performs excellent. Comparing to the KGSS it has less power and this might be his problem
> if you prefer hearing with higher loudnesslevels.
> For my 007 Mk2 it is easy to reach the edge of distortion. Less probelm with the 009 or the 4040 lambda.
> 
> ...


 
 Hmm, I have seen many posts about this subject. I use the SRM-717 driving the SR-007 Mk2.5s, and I have to say, it gets bloody loud and I don't hear any distortion.
  
 I have an Audio Note M3 in front of the Stax amp, with the Stax set to avoid the volume knob, i.e. the Stax amp is full on class A power amp, and the volume is controlled by
 the Audio Note pre amp, which I know pumps out 2v - 6v as required, and has a Transformer coupling on the output, so can handle high ohms output.
  
 What I am finding (I think) is the input to the Stax amp is already quite high level, so maybe it helps the Stax to get a grip on the voltage swings?
 Not sure. I tried missing out the pre amp and driving the Stax amp direct from my DAC but it sounded thin and weak.
  
 The SRM-717 has no feedback, and I am told by some it sounds better than the 727 (which can be modded). Anyway, if you can get your hand on a good tubed pre amp
 it might be worth you trying this. I don't fell the need for a BHSE. My tubed stages are down stream.
  
 I know the BHSE and the KGSS have bigger voltage swings, but as I say, I am very happy right now. Plus I don't want even more valves to service and replace....


----------



## Currawong

I had a chance to listen to a variety of top-end rigs at the SoCal meet on the weekend, including no less than three 009 rigs (and I'm listening with a borrowed pair of LCD-3s now).
  
 They were: 
 Justin's demo BHSE rig with 009s.
 The Liquid Silk with 007s and 009s.
 A WES with full tube upgrade with the 009s.
 Liquid Gold with the Abyss.
 A full EAR rig with the LCD-X.
  
 Ignoring the relative demerits of the rigs (long waiting lists or crazy upgrade tube costs) I would hard-pressed to choose between them. I still think the 009s have a kind of magic nothing else does and a lot of that is in the treble which nothing else can match. BUT, I think planars are catching up to the point that I'd choose LCD-3s over a pair of R10s without hesitation. The main problem with 'stats is that you are limited in options if you don't like the sound signature of what is currently available and you want the very best.


----------



## karlgerman

Wow, this is great having the chance to compare all top rigs. make me really jealous.
 Even at the famous german HIGH-END meet in Munich is no such thing.
  
 My problem is that i normally need a longer time of relaxed hearing to find out any hearing preferences.
 Buying and trying seems to be the only option for me!
  
 @astrostar59
  
 If i had the SRM-717 i would be happy too! Enough power to drive the OMEGA and dead silent in noise interference.
 hope to get one from ebay in future.


----------



## darinf

currawong said:


> I had a chance to listen to a variety of top-end rigs at the SoCal meet on the weekend, including no less than three 009 rigs (and I'm listening with a borrowed pair of LCD-3s now).
> 
> They were:
> Justin's demo BHSE rig with 009s.
> ...


 
 Too bad you didn't get a chance to come by the Darin Fong Audio table.
  
 I had the Vostok Sound ES-21 solid state electrostatic amp/DAC/dynamic amp with the Stax 009's. I would be really interested to see what you thought of it.


----------



## 3X0

astrostar59 said:


> Hmm, I have seen many posts about this subject. I use the SRM-717 driving the SR-007 Mk2.5s, and I have to say, it gets bloody loud and I don't hear any distortion.
> I know the BHSE and the KGSS have bigger voltage swings, but as I say, I am very happy right now. Plus I don't want even more valves to service and replace....


 
 I don't understand the demand obsession with ludicrous voltage swings. I keep reading all this hullabaloo about having enough power in your back pocket for "when you need it" and it makes me concerned with regards to the volume levels at which people listen to these things. You'd think everyone was talking about loudspeakers, not earspeakers.
  
 I'd hazard at most a 5 o'clock level for the perceived loudness (this is after a -8.0dB ReplayGain); I'm not trying to please a small audience with the backwave from my headphones. I don't find the voltage swing thing to be very compelling -- are people trying to blow out their eardrums?


currawong said:


> I still think the 009s have a kind of magic nothing else does and a lot of that is in the treble which nothing else can match. BUT, *I think planars are catching up to the point that I'd choose LCD-3s over a pair of R10s without hesitation*. The main problem with 'stats is that you are limited in options if you don't like the sound signature of what is currently available and you want the very best.


 
 Purely in terms of sonics? Thanks for that. I was looking at a MDR-R10 and it provided some much-needed perspective (I only listened to them way back when before the LCD-3s and the like were released).
  
 With most planars I've still had some issues with the treble performance falling short of ideal.
  
 I agree that sound signature variety of in-production electrostats is fairly limited, but there's always out-of-production models if you're willing to pay the premium.


----------



## davidsh

3x0 said:


> I don't understand the demand obsession with ludicrous voltage swings. I keep reading all this hullabaloo about having enough power in your back pocket for "when you need it" and it makes me concerned with regards to the volume levels at which people listen to these things. You'd think everyone was talking about loudspeakers, not earspeakers.
> 
> I'd hazard at most a 5 o'clock level for the perceived loudness (this is after a -8.0dB ReplayGain); I'm not trying to please a small audience with the backwave from my headphones. I don't find the voltage swing thing to be very compelling -- are people trying to blow out their eardrums?


 
 +1!
 Most headphones need to play like 10-20dB louder than what's generally recommended for speakers and their amps to be considered well-amped here on head-fi!
  
 Am rocking out to AC/DC live recordings on my T1 with 307. Looking at the pot meter I am below 11 o'clock, more like 10. Not that it really matters, but it seems to me some listen very loud.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

once again, people are confusing power with volume.


----------



## 3X0

Actually, we're not and I apologize for not being more specific. In fact the common argument posited against "lesser" amplifiers is that when you push them, you'll run into trouble.
  
 The implication here is that these amplifiers would have insufficient power to handle to handle great levels of dynamic range (e.g. opera, some orchestral). For this reason (among others), most DIY electrostatic amplifiers have _extremely_ robust output transistors.
  
 My argument is that this concern might be best constrained to the loudspeaker realm and might be practically unnecessary for earspeakers. My curiosity stems into the volume levels people are driving their earspeakers to even begin to run into issues with dynamic headroom (as dynamic headroom is predicated on the baseline volume to begin with).
  
 There is a vast chasm of difference between the power level required to satisfy a small audience in a medium-sized room and that required for two transducers situated on your ears.


----------



## takato14

davidsh said:


> Funny thing, just about any headphone I hear sounds 'off' and unnatural compared to a good electrostat, especially in the treble/higher mids.


 
 Interesting. The SR-X MKIII I heard was easily bested by my Sony DR-Z7 in terms of treble performance. The SR-X had better extension but the Z7 is very sharply defined without being etched or harsh, and I couldn't say the same about the SR-X.
  
 Then again the pads were destroyed and the energizer was modified so take that with a grain of salt.


----------



## yawg

milosz said:


> I am currently selling off almost all of my dynamic and planar headphones.  And selling a bunch of headphone amps too. I have just gotten to like electrostatic headphones too much, I don't listen to the others any more.  I went through 2 months where I tried to listen to my LCD-2's and HD800s more- and they do have their strengths- but then I went back to Stax and ESP-950's  and I just don't think I can listen to the HD800s or LCD2s any more.  I mean, I really WANT to love the HD800's, they do a lot things right. But I just can't handle their treble.  It hurts my ears.  I have a bit of hyperacusis right right the HD800's have their emphasis and I just can't listen to them.
> 
> I think there's also something about my overall sound preferences -  I have had a TON of speakers over the years including some very pricey models. Right now my favorites are my refurbished Quad ESL-57's. Yeah, they don't play REAL loud.  The deepest bass is M.I.A.,  and the treble is a little "plasticky" sounding. But there is something about their sound, especially the midrange and upper bass, that is _*just*_ what I want, what I'm looking for,  from music playback.  My other system, which I also like very much, is a pair of Magneplanar MG-3.6's, triamped using a DEQX.  These have subwoofers as well, below 45 Hz using an additional digital crossover.  The imaging from these is amazing- the DEQX brings the performance of this system in the time domain into incredible focus.
> 
> ...


 

 Yep, I'm one of those. My first ESLs were Martin Logan CLS IIz, very good but couldn't play loud enough for my taste. Then I tried the big Maggies, I have the 3.6R but the original XOs are ridiculous. After getting the Mye stands and new custom XOs I'm bi-amping now with 200W EAR tube monos, tweaked with NOS tubes (mid/treble) and 300W Marantz MA-700 THX monos (bass). For the lowest octave I have an active sub. Very satisfied although when playing really loud I'd like to try another pair of MA-700s to use in bridged mode - bass-impact/kick drums get a tad woolly sometimes. There is always a possibility to improve but the returns get less and less ...
  
 I use a Cayin DAC with old German tubes in the line stage, very natural and musical. Tried this and that for about 40 years, but couldn't find significant improvements in recent years - I'm a happy music junkie now.
  
 I use my LNS mostly for watching movies, with the SRM-3. For music I have a T1S.


----------



## schorsch

My favourite speakers are my Stax F-81
Regards Georg


----------



## mangler

darinf said:


> Too bad you didn't get a chance to come by the Darin Fong Audio table.
> 
> I had the Vostok Sound ES-21 solid state electrostatic amp/DAC/dynamic amp with the Stax 009's. I would be really interested to see what you thought of it.




Any chance you got to try it with a 007?


----------



## darinf

mangler said:


> Any chance you got to try it with a 007?


 
 Unfortunately, I don't own a pair of 007's. If anyone with 007's or 009's for that matter wants to demo the Vostok amp, PM me. They are thinking about doing a "tour" with one of the amps.
  
 Or if you are in SoCal, I'd be happy to arrange a demo.


----------



## project86

3x0 said:


> Purely in terms of sonics? Thanks for that. I was looking at a MDR-R10 and it provided some much-needed perspective (I only listened to them way back when before the LCD-3s and the like were released).


 
  
  
 I have to agree as well. MDR-R10 was and is a fantastic sounding headphone, but I do believe it has been surpassed by some of the current top models. Plus I always felt super nervous when handling it - one small ding potentially takes hundreds off the value. 
  
 I'd love it if they redid it in a similar new model, selling for $1k or so. I'd buy it in a heartbeat. It's the inflated used value that keeps me away.


----------



## jring

Gentlemen,
  
 while not having ventured into the summit forums yet (as opposed to real summits of which I have climbed a few), I now have a question about my latest head-fi acquisition which hopefully can be answered here.
  
 I have gotten a pair of lambda pros off german ebay for a steal and after fixing two broken leads and replacing the torn headpad with a piece of leather cut to size they are playing nicely with my old power amp and the included srd7-mk2.
  
 The pads are not too good though and probably should be replaced - but since I felt sweaty below them even in winter I was thinking about getting SR-507 leather pads as replacement...
  
 - will they fit (I think yes from what I read - but comments welcome)?
  
 - will they change the sound signature and if yes, in what way?
  
 - will they increase comfort and especially feel less sweaty?
  
 So if anybody is using 507 pads on any other lambda, I'd like to hear your experiences.
  
 Thanks in advance,
  
 Joachim


----------



## triodesteve

An energizer question: I just picked up a SRD-7sb energizer and I'm looking at a pair of Lambda SR-A headphones. From reading I understand that these phones will need some time to energize...and it may be best to even leave them "powered up" all the time. Unfortunately my amp and line stage all run on batteries and leaving it powered up for a long time isn't a great idea. I'm talking C and D batteries and lots of them. Is there another way to energize the 
 Lambda's? I guess I could buy a cheap little t-amp for the purpose...any better ideas?
 Thanks,
 Steve


----------



## bearFNF

I have been using a Toppings T32 which functions pretty well and has a remote even.


----------



## n3rdling

I also pretty much only use electrostatic headphones/speakers. 
  
 It's rare for people to actually go back to only dynamics after owning electrostats for purely sound preference.  What I've found is that the most common reasons for change are an increase in convenience and an increase in tweaking one's system.  The first reason is pretty much common sense - you can't exactly plug your Stax into your mobile device and they can be a bit more finicky in terms of care when not in use.  The latter reason isn't really evident until you go to many meets I'd think.  There is a large percentage of people in the hobby that like to mess around with their system.  Tweakaholics.  Nothing wrong with that but I'm not really wired the same way.  Electrostats don't afford these type the vast amount of amps (and in turn their tubes/components) to play around with.  I think tweaking is a large part of the fun of this hobby for them and that's cool too.  I'm more the set and forget type.


----------



## bearFNF

So, just placed an order for 009's and BHSE, let the wait begin...


----------



## n3rdling

Congrats   Did you hear them at the meet this weekend?


----------



## bearFNF

yup, I was at Justin's table giving them a good listen, even though they were broken...sounded as good as they did when I was at CanJam.


----------



## arnaud

Congrats bearfnf, especially since you could make your mind up based on actual experience so no unrealistic expectations.

Seems like Justin's rig got better over time. I recall some meets in the past where people mainly preferred the 007 from his rig while the 009 was more popular on alex cavalli's table and such.
Treasure tubes play a bit maybe (even though i have a feeling they are there with the black finish amp to make the whole thing look even more awesome  )? 
Or is it mainly due to the source upgrade (ayre vs oppo in the past)?


----------



## DefQon

Higher voltage swing != just louder volume.


----------



## takato14

defqon said:


> Higher voltage swing != just louder volume.


 
 This, to the ends of the earth.


----------



## 3X0

defqon said:


> Higher voltage swing != just louder volume.


 


3x0 said:


> The implication here is that these amplifiers would have insufficient power to handle to handle great levels of dynamic range (e.g. opera, some orchestral). For this reason (among others), most DIY electrostatic amplifiers have _extremely_ robust output transistors.


 
 Simple: You aren't going to run into dynamic headroom ceilings until you're using a higher-dynamic-range recording at a sufficient volume level. It would be silly to suggest this could happen at quiet listening levels.
  
 Is that much voltage swing is not necessary for earspeakers in practical applications?
  
 I'm _extremely _curious as to how many people have run into the headroom ceiling or some form of aberrations/clipping while playing out of, say, a SRM-717 or KGSS.


----------



## mangler

2 very basic and unrelated questions:

1) in stock configuration, does the bar/spring on the 007 face the front or back? I got mine second hand, and while I don't think the previous owner made any adjustments, I just want to check.

2) Do you find the 009 to be brighter, less bright, or just as bright as the 507? Ive heard a few different opinions, but not enough to get an idea of what the consensus is. I've also never been fortunate enough to hear the 009, so this would provide a nice point of reference.


----------



## davidsh

3x0 said:


> defqon said:
> 
> 
> > Higher voltage swing != just louder volume.
> ...


 
 I suppose distortion will rise as you approach the headroom ceiling and sky-rocket as clipping will start to occur. How much it will rise and at what levels is the question.. And when it will be audible. 
 But you can measure that by measuring distortion (and other artefacts) vs. output level I suppose.


----------



## Tachikoma

takato14 said:


> Interesting. The SR-X MKIII I heard was easily bested by my Sony DR-Z7 in terms of treble performance. The SR-X had better extension but the Z7 is very sharply defined without being etched or harsh, and I couldn't say the same about the SR-X.
> 
> Then again the pads were destroyed and the energizer was modified so take that with a grain of salt.


 

 That's normal for the SR-X, the highs are a bit muffled due to the design of the housing. Nice headphones, still.


----------



## DefQon

Housing, comfort and pads are horrible on the SR-X range. Glad I sold my sets quickly enough then to recoup the funds. Drivers have potential in better housing. Spritzer has butchered a lot of them and Gamma's cross-installing drivers to see how it sounds.


----------



## takato14

tachikoma said:


> takato14 said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting. The SR-X MKIII I heard was easily bested by my Sony DR-Z7 in terms of treble performance. The SR-X had better extension but the Z7 is very sharply defined without being etched or harsh, and I couldn't say the same about the SR-X.
> ...


 
 They didn't sound muffled to me at all, in fact quite the opposite. They were incredibly piercing and etched.


----------



## Tachikoma

The extreme highs felt muffled when I had them, but I had no other treble issues. Different ears I guess.


----------



## DefQon

I think it's the upper mids or treble that you guys may be referring to. The Highs were quite extended but sibilant. My ears.


----------



## yawg

jring said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> while not having ventured into the summit forums yet (as opposed to real summits of which I have climbed a few), I now have a question about my latest head-fi acquisition which hopefully can be answered here.
> 
> ...


 

 When I got tired of the worn pl pads of my LNS I bought the leather pads from AudioCubes, very expensive because of the extra import tax I had to pay. But I'm very satisfied. A great fit and no sweat, they are not sticky like the pl leather.
  
 The sound has improved, too IMO. I recommend them.


----------



## zolkis

mangler said:


> 2 very basic and unrelated questions:
> 
> 1) in stock configuration, does the bar/spring on the 007 face the front or back? I got mine second hand, and while I don't think the previous owner made any adjustments, I just want to check.


 
  
 The first 007 Mk1 I tried was owned by a Stax dealer (first-hand), with no mods at all, and the bar pointed to the front. I think it's the same with the 009. The placement is likely not as much for sonic reasons, but for comfort: my ear touches the bar if it's pointing to the back (even when it's pointing down or up).
  


> 2) Do you find the 009 to be brighter, less bright, or just as bright as the 507? Ive heard a few different opinions, but not enough to get an idea of what the consensus is. I've also never been fortunate enough to hear the 009, so this would provide a nice point of reference.


 
  
 They are different kinds of brightness: the 507 is lower in frequency and a more narrow distribution. People who find the 507 etched (I don't), are usually still fine with the 009. They sound similarly open, the 009 being the more balanced/neutral and more open sound, with better.. everything. Yes it is perhaps with more high frequency energy, but rather evenly spread out, is not disturbing me at least. Also the more and better bass and more transparent midrange, with bigger sound stage puts the treble energy in a good context. I am not sure if I can really quantify the differences, but it's similar "house sound", and a departure from the 007.
  
 In general, I prefer the natural neutral sound of the 009 over the darker, warmer and more euphonic 007 Mk1, but the treble of the 009 is indeed a bit high when compared to the 007 Mk1, so the latter may be preferred with some types of music. The treble of the 007 is definitely enough for me, just right. However, the 009 is better in many ways whereas the 007 is better only in some ways and some music... so if there has to be one headphone, the 009 is the best - pair it with the right amp.
  
 You have to listen to the 009, really. You need to make your own choice for your own ears/auditory cortex and wallet. If you like it, get the money and buy it... you won't regret. However, when you want to compare it to the 007 Mk1, more time is needed, since the 009 makes a better first impression, but the 007 Mk1 may win you over with time. As described earlier, it is possible to tune the 007 to sound less warm and more neutral, by rotating the bar downwards (and doing the foam mod), but AFAIK there are less or no possibility to make the 009 sound more warm, except perhaps more stuffing to the back half of the earpads, and amp/tubes choice. So in the end the 007 Mk1 may just fit the bill better. I could live with either - but when a choice is given, life is hard .


----------



## milosz

I think people are somewhat off-base talking about the reason that some of us feel that the 007 (esp. mk I) really come alive with an amp capable of higher voltage swings -  and it is NOT just volume.
  
 The SLEW RATE is important. Most electrostatic amps just can't swing ENOUGH voltage FAST ENOUGH (with low distortion) into the reactive load of an electrostatic driver.
  
 If everything else was equal - slew rate, distortion, etc - then higher voltage swing would only mean a louder output.  But when it comes to electrostatic amplifiers, things are NOT equal, and so the QUALITY of sound that a given electrostatic earphone is capable of has limits imposed on it by the amplifier's capabilities.  An amplifier that is capable of delivering the best in terms of high slew rates and low distortion is also capable of greater-than-average voltage swings.
  
 Listen to an 007 on a DIY T2 then listen to it on an SRM-T1 - or even the  SRM-727 etc-  you'll hear the difference.  And that difference is NOT just "moar volume."


----------



## milosz

Thanks for all the replies re: electrostatic headphones  / electrostatic speakers.
  
 I found them interesting.  It seems that folks who like electrostatic headphones also like panel speakers. 
  
 Personally, I have found that even the most expensive well-regarded dynamic speakers still sound like "sound coming out a box."  On the very best examples, it can sound like actual musicians are inside that box,  but the BOX is still there. 
  
 (And by the way, I know that Magneplanars are not electrostatic. They are planar magnetic, with ribbon tweeters.  But, like full-range electrostatic speakers, they do not have BOXES. )


----------



## DefQon

The only thing lacking with panel speakers (the ones I've heard including the hybrid Martin Logans) is low end where an additional active subwoofer added into the same room with the right placement can make it more enjoyable, some of the vintage Quad's I've heard sound bland and diffused. Very good in one particular area but lacking in other areas making the music sound incoherent like forcing odd puzzles into a spot where it does not belong.
  
 Funny thing you brought up "sound coming out a box."  On the very best examples, it can sound like actual musicians are inside that box,  but the BOX is still there." I'm actually having this problem with one of the speakers I have at my house and so far with some room treatment, placement and bottom end dampening it has helped with the sound. If it sounds like a box it means 4 things: room to big and too hollow, improper speaker positioning - set too far apart or too close and lack of internal dampening or deteriorating dampening and finally could be just a bad speaker..
  
 So far with what I've experienced is that some multi-way dual woofer (usually xover between mid bass and sub woofer) or dual tweeter dynamic speakers is that the sound can be overpowering, hard to describe. Another problem is rather than sound and soundstaging surrounding the listener it is shot directly at the listener in the face, quite annoying and sound can come off unnatural, un-positioned with a cold and sibilant extension to the high or upper registers in the treble. But a cure for this is positioning and choosing the right speaker for the right room (size, wall and floor type).


----------



## zolkis

defqon said:


> Funny thing you brought up "sound coming out a box."  On the very best examples, it can sound like actual musicians are inside that box,  but the BOX is still there." I'm actually having this problem with one of the speakers I have at my house and so far with some room treatment, placement and bottom end dampening it has helped with the sound. If it sounds like a box it means 4 things: room to big and too hollow, improper speaker positioning - set too far apart or too close and lack of internal dampening or deteriorating dampening and finally could be just a bad speaker..


 
  
 I agree with this. Proper internal damping and proper room with some treatment make a huge difference, and it's the minimum someone should invest in if serious about speakers. All the dynamic speakers I mentioned above sound out of the box, with much better sound stage than any headphone. For hybrid dyn/stats, it's still the JansZen speakers that I would prefer. As a matter of fact, I may prefer them over most dynamic speakers, so milosz can count me in, too . However, they are not purely stats. In addition, I've heard close or better dynamic speakers; they have also evolved a lot. It matters not only in the bass, but also in the midrange and even high frequency micro- and macrodynamics. Big panels tend to smear things a bit and sound more compressed. Often good dynamic speakers (and also headphones) may sound cleaner and resolve e.g. orchestral crescendos better. However, at the physical size of headphone membranes, this effect is minimal if it matters at all, and I seem to prefer (full range) stats there. They just have that natural, clean, open, lifelike sound everyone loves here.


----------



## DefQon

zolkis said:


> Big panels tend to smear things a bit and sound more compressed. Often good dynamic speakers (and also headphones) may sound cleaner and resolve e.g. orchestral crescendos better. However, at the physical size of headphone membranes, this effect is minimal if it matters at all, and I seem to prefer (full range) stats there. They just have that natural, clean, open, lifelike sound everyone loves here.


 
 Agreed. But as an example with older Quad's, compressed and smeared sound is an indication of a refurbishment and restoration to be performed, that is if amplification is not a problem. 
  
 As with Miloz's question, the upper tier Dali dynamic speakers are the best to date that I have heard to date, besting the Dragon's, ATC, Martin Logan, Quad's and few other high 4 figure speakers I've heard at our dealers showroom (and a few times another speakerphiles house). I definitely don't agree with more expensive is better but if one is going DIY route, a good and well designed cabinet with the right dampened chambers for drivers can impact sound bigger then just dropping good VIFA or SEAS drivers. DIY gives you that satisfaction retail doesn't. This doesn't just limit to audio and speakers though.


----------



## jgazal

milosz said:


> I think people are somewhat off-base talking about the reason that some of us feel that the 007 (esp. mk I) really come alive with an amp capable of higher voltage swings -  and it is NOT just volume.
> 
> The SLEW RATE is important. Most electrostatic amps just can't swing ENOUGH voltage FAST ENOUGH (with low distortion) into the reactive load of an electrostatic driver.
> 
> ...


 
  


dude_500 said:


> Unlike in conventional headphones where the cable does not measurably affect the output of the headphones, in electrostatic headphones it actually can definitely play a major role. It depends entirely on the amplifier whether or not it will matter. Electrostatic drivers are capacitors, and the cables are capacitors. As it turns out, the cable is quite a fraction of the total capacity of the headphones. Increasing this capacitance may or may not change the sound quality. Electrostatic drivers run at such high voltages, that slewing the voltage in these capacitors actually takes milliamps or even tens of milliamps of current (might not sound like much, but we're at hundreds of volts!). If the amplifier has sufficient drive power and is well designed, it really shouldn't change anything. If it's a lower power amp or lower design quality, it might be at least measurable.
> 
> In terms of conventional headphones, imagine a case with a 300 ohm driver, where the cable is 100 ohms. Changing this cable to 300 ohms by extending it would change the impedance of the system and would change how it is loading the amplifier. Fortunately for conventional dynamic drivers, cables are <<1 ohm.
> 
> Given the bias currents and topology of the Blue Hawaii, it is my opinion that there might be a very slight measurable difference using a 15 foot cable, but I would be shocked if the difference could be perceived by any human (of course assuming you're unaware of the difference in cable length). On the other hand, if one were using a Stax transformer box, I would be quite surprised if the average listener couldn't tell a difference.


 
  
 These quotes deserve to be united since they are both related. I have found both beautifully explained. Thank you.


----------



## dripf

milosz said:


> I think people are somewhat off-base talking about the reason that some of us feel that the 007 (esp. mk I) really come alive with an amp capable of higher voltage swings -  and it is NOT just volume.
> 
> The SLEW RATE is important.


 
 The SLEW RATE is meaningless.
  
 Quote:


milosz said:


> Most electrostatic amps just can't swing ENOUGH voltage FAST ENOUGH (with low distortion) into the reactive load of an electrostatic driver.


 
  
 Classic unsubstantiated claim.


----------



## kothganesh

dripf said:


> The SLEW RATE is meaningless.


 
 Could you please elaborate ?


----------



## Audio Jester

kothganesh said:


> Could you please elaborate ?



This should be good... 
Looking forward to dripf's fourth post.


----------



## dripf

Assuming a linear audible frequency response (which is reasonable) from the amplifier, we can use the output Vrms to calculate the slew rate of the amplifier. This is meaningless as it describes nothing more than we already know.
  
 The context of SR in the case of ES headphones is the calculation of current required to output 20 kHz at a required loudness. This is simple SR * capacitance. Where there is a current insufficiency SR is effectively limited.


----------



## dripf

Although, if you do transpose the formula into SR = current / capacitance, things aren't looking so great for my hot air.
  
 By this I mean that I've proven milosz's point.


----------



## 3X0

I'll be the first to admit that I have a fairly limited understanding of what such factors mean in practical applications (i.e. outside of circuit topology theory and conversation topics for electrical engineers).
  
 In particular I'm unsure of the implications of damping factor and slew rate in the electrostatic realm.
  
 That's why I'm genuinely curious as to how and when the theoretical limits of electrostatic amplification might be breached, particularly from individuals who have first-hand experience with such audible distortion/clipping. This is not just for something like a SRM-252S or SRM-323S or SRM-T1, but also for justifying the increments from a KGSS to a KGSSHV to a BHSE to a SRM-T2.
  
 I have the money for just about anything short of a SRM-T2/DIY-T2, but I just can't justify the outlay. Let me say that my first-hand experience with the KGSSHV was less than revelatory.


----------



## milosz

Slew rates DO matter. Most amplifiers have such high slew rates that they are thought not to matter- and certainly I doubt whether anyone could hear the difference in two amplifiers, one with a slew rate of 200 V/uSec and one with a slew rate of 20 V/uSec - all other things being equal.  But if you had an amplifier with a 1 V/sec slew rate, do you really think it would sound OK?
  
 When driving the reactive load presented by the 007, most electrostatic amplifiers tend to start showing power bandwidth and slew rate problems at their max voltage output levels.  
  
 I'll post some 'scope pictures if I get around to it. Square waves even as low as 1 kHz don't really look all that great from the output of a T1 driving an 007 at ~90 dB SPL, while the DIY T2 is close to flawless.  
  
 You CAN hear the difference.  Be sure you have_* actually tried listening*_ to a 007 mk I on both a DIY T2 and a T1  (or 727 etc)  before you claim  that these things don't matter.
  
 I suspect that IM also increases from the T1 and other amps at high-ish drive levels into an 007.  With a steady-state test signal (sine wave etc) the amp's negative feedback will reduce IM and THD levels rather quickly, but music is NOT a steady state signal, and I think that the lesser amps are introducing IM into short-duration signals.  This is just a guess. I have no way to measure this.  My distortion analyzer relies on sine wave test signals, as they all pretty much do.
  
 The DIY T2  is extremely linear even at high output voltage levels, even without negative feedback.  So is the BHSE.


----------



## dude_500

3x0 said:


> I'll be the first to admit that I have a fairly limited understanding of what such factors mean in practical applications (i.e. outside of circuit topology theory and conversation topics for electrical engineers).
> 
> In particular I'm unsure of the implications of damping factor and slew rate in the electrostatic realm.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The slew rate is how fast the output voltage can change. If you ever hit the slew rate limit, there is substantial distortion because the output can't "keep up" with the input. You shouldn't actually ever be breaching this if the amplifier is properly built for the load it drives. I measured my Blue Hawaii's unloaded slew rate at about 125V/uS (it is entirely possible the BHSE has superior slew rate, I didn't spend a whole lot of time tuning my DIY BH for slew rate, and the published schematic has typos so every DIY BH is going to be a little different). This means that at full 800Vp-p output, there is no slew rate distortion up to 50kHz. I always forget to measure it with headphone load when I have it in the shop, but it is safe to say it's going to be quite a bit lower. 

 Basically, since the slew rate limit is caused by the amplifiers inability to provide sufficient current to the load to slew its voltage. Since the current required to slew a capacitor is proportional to the capacitance, adding more capacitance will directly decrease the slew rate of the system.
  
  
 I think it was stated that slew rate doesn't matter, because it actually doesn't unless you're hitting the wall. At reasonable volume levels with a reasonably quality amp, you're just not hitting the slew rate limit. But the thing is, if you start adding long cables and multiple headphones, you might. Now, that's not to say there aren't other forms of distortion caused by increasing the capacitive load. But calling any of those slew rate limitations is an incorrect use of terminology.
  
 It blows my mind that industry standard is to put two output jacks on electrostatic amplifiers. It is completely absurd to listen to an amplifier with two headphones attached. Sure, this might not matter on a T2, but just about everything else including the Blue Hawaii does not have enough power to recklessly be throwing away slew rate and capacitive loading distortion. I believe it started as amps having two jacks, one pro bias and one standard bias, and now it just kind of stuck because your amplifier would look worse with only one jack. But in fact, the second jack should NEVER be used if you care about sound quality. Those of us who build electrostatic headphones have noticed that etching away even one or two square inches of unnecessary stator area affects the sound produced, especially in the trebles where the slew rate is much higher. Now add a second pair of headphones...


----------



## kothganesh

dripf said:


> Although, if you do transpose the formula into SR = current / capacitance, things aren't looking so great for my hot air.
> 
> By this I mean that I've proven milosz's point. :rolleyes:



Good conclusion


----------



## georgep

milosz said:


> Slew rates DO matter. Most amplifiers have such high slew rates that they are thought not to matter- and certainly I doubt whether anyone could hear the difference in two amplifiers, one with a slew rate of 200 V/uSec and one with a slew rate of 20 V/uSec - all other things being equal.  But if you had an amplifier with a 1 V/sec slew rate, do you really think it would sound OK?
> 
> When driving the reactive load presented by the 007, most electrostatic amplifiers tend to start showing power bandwidth and slew rate problems at their max voltage output levels.
> 
> ...




Milosz, by any chance would you happen to have any square wave measurements at lower dB SPL, like 50dB or less. I have not done any listening comparisons between my DIY-T2 and other electrostatic amps i have had, but am curious, particularly since I tend to listen at very low volume levels.

Dude, regarding the 2 output jacks issue, I had been under the impression from comments made by Kevin Gilmore that there was little to no difference in running two headphones at the same time - but I could be mistaken on this. Maybe a BHSE, Liquid Lightning, Electra or WES owner could ask their respective makers the question.


----------



## DefQon

I think the KG statement about 2 ES headphones driven from a stat amp concurrently from the two outputs is not a problem since the Z load is very different on electrostats to that of conventional dynamic transducers. My memory is vague here as it was in the old Stax thread and on the other site but I could be wrong.


----------



## milosz

georgep said:


> Milosz, by any chance would you happen to have any square wave measurements at lower dB SPL, like 50dB or less. I have not done any listening comparisons between my DIY-T2 and other electrostatic amps i have had, but am curious, particularly since I tend to listen at very low volume levels.


 
  
 My DIY T2 is back apart now, boards and so on being fit into the casework.  No measurements possible for a while yet.


----------



## arnaud

This has me curious to measure various step responses on the 007 and 009 through my 727 amp and bhse when it gets (any day or week or month now  ).


----------



## milosz

arnaud said:


> This has me curious to measure various step responses on the 007 and 009 through my 727 amp and bhse when it gets (any day or week or month now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'd be interested to see what the signal output from the amp itself looks like, the acoustic output of the 007 and 009 are of interest too but I'd be curious to see if you can see any difference in the voltage from the amp.  CAUTION:  use isolated 'scope! High voltages!


----------



## DefQon

Milos what's your scope/gear that you'll be using to measure your T2 when completed?


----------



## martyn73

Hi,
  
 I'm trying out the Stax 4170 system and can't detect any 'etching' in the mid-range. I'm not sure exactly what an etched mid range is supposed to sound like but the SR-407 headphones are clearly a step change from dynamic headphones. Compared to my previous Sennheiser HD 700 there's no excruciating emphasis of the treble so sibilance is not artificially emphasised. The SR-407 seems to produce a warm sound compared to my old Stax Basic system with no fatiguing treble issues. 
  
 However, for financial reasons I may end up buying a SRM-323S and SR-407 instead (after selling my HD 650 and Graham Slee stuff). Is there a very noticeable difference in the sound quality of the SRM-323S compared with the SRM-006TS? I've searched the forum without luck. Due to size of these amplifiers (compared to my tiny Stax Basic system) the SRM-006TS has to sit on top of my PC tower. I know class A valve amplifiers run hot but the SRM-006TS is like a radiator.
  
 Thanks


----------



## s1rrah

martyn73 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying out the Stax 4170 system and can't detect any 'etching' in the mid-range. I'm not sure exactly what an etched mid range is supposed to sound like but the SR-407 headphones are clearly a step change from dynamic headphones. Compared to my previous Sennheiser HD 700 there's no excruciating emphasis of the treble so sibilance is not artificially emphasised. The SR-407 seems to produce a warm sound compared to my old Stax Basic system with no fatiguing treble issues.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can't speak towards comparing the two amps but I've read a lot from some pretty damned on-top-of-it Stax aficionados and from what I've read, the SRM-323S is considered by many to be one of the best (if not the best, considering the money) Stax amps currently available ... also, one of the most powerful.
  
 You could probably expect a slightly more detailed image with the SRM-323S ... I use one currently (with 404LE's and Koss 950's) and love it. Had a SRM-T1 before and the 323S blows it away (for my preferences, anyway) ...


----------



## angeche

Hello all. As you see, a newbie (few posts!) but a long time owner of Stax headphones. I currently own the 20 years old SR-5 (driven with either SRD-6/SB or with the portable unit SRD-X) and the SR-001(the baby Stax).
  
 I have been a bit away from Hi-end music gear in the last years partly due to the attraction to mobile devices such as iPod Classic (which I also own). But having discovered the new generation portable players (such as Fiio X3) I am back to being interested in the Stax headphones.
  
 Through ebay, I have bought from Japan a SRM-T1S (Japan version, 100v only). I have connected my Fiio X3 to it through the line out and it sounds great.
  
 My questions are two:
  
 1) I was sourced by the seller a 220V to 100 V converter but the Power is too low, it overheats and disconnects. I have bought a 220V to 110V converter. Works fine with it, and since I have seen that there is a fuse inside the amplifier connected to the main current plug, I assume that I run no risk (otherwise, the fuse would blow out). I understand that having a 100V converter would be better but they are extremely hard to source. So…. what are the risks, if any, I am running by doing this?
  
 2) Thinking in replacing the SR-5, does it make sense to buy the 507?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## rgs9200m

martyn73 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying out the Stax 4170 system and can't detect any 'etching' in the mid-range. I'm not sure exactly what an etched mid range is supposed to sound like but the SR-407 headphones are clearly a step change from dynamic headphones. Compared to my previous Sennheiser HD 700 there's no excruciating emphasis of the treble so sibilance is not artificially emphasised. The SR-407 seems to produce a warm sound compared to my old Stax Basic system with no fatiguing treble issues.
> 
> ...


 
 My Stax 007t/ii runs fairly cool for a tube amp with no significant heat build-up with 3 inches of clearance on top.


----------



## DefQon

angeche said:


> Through ebay, I have bought from Japan a SRM-T1S (Japan version, 100v only). I have connected my Fiio X3 to it through the line out and it sounds great.
> 
> My questions are two:
> 
> ...


 
 Did you buy yours from buyjapan from ebay?  A 507 would be a substantial step up from the SR-5 except the mids. The SR-5 is all about voicing and mids.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Yeah, mids on SR-5 are soooooooo lovely.
 When I want to hear voices at their best, I drop my SR-009 and take my SR-5 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## n3rdling

You should hear the SR-1* then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
 *When not imbalanced/distorted


----------



## DefQon

n3rdling said:


> *When not imbalanced/distorted


 
  
 A problem indeed. Did anybody here ever find the "New SR-3" fairly laid back sounding? It doesn't seem to have the very forward mids the SR-1 (mine came with a SRD-5 and despite the 150-200vdc variants mine had no problem running at 230vdc bias) and SR-5 exhibit?


----------



## angeche

Did you buy yours from buyjapan from ebay?

Yes, I did


----------



## dude_500

Brought my DIY BH to the shop to measure tonight:
 Slew rate no load: 78v/us
 Slew rate with DIY SR007 Clones: 68v/us
  
 I was expecting a dramatically more significant loss of slew rate. These numbers mean slew rate is irrelevant with or without headphones, at least for the blue hawaii. Surely also with two headphones. 
  
 I also looked at the FFT to try to get a distortion measurement, but I couldn't really get meaningful results due to the noise floor. Since I don't have a spectrum analyzer, and the scope has a noise floor of about -60dB. Also the function generator I had access to seems to have about 0.2% THD. So, I conclude that with or without load my amp is better than 0.2% THD, although given the statistical uncertainty of the measurement I really can't say much. I'll try to get access to a spectrum analyzer sometime, but I don't know if I'll be able to find one for the audio band.
  

  
 There's a 2khz tone at 300vp-p. You can certainly see the 2nd and 3rd harmonic, but they were flickering in and out and numerically mean nothing given the scope's behavior at that level.


----------



## n3rdling

Ya, I don't hear any difference when connecting a second headphone to my DIY BH.  In fact, at meets I usually have had 2 headphones connected to it at the same time.  It would be interesting to see the measurements produced by adding a 2nd headphone to amps with a high output C or low slew rate...I think the LL mk1 has something like 150-200 pF output capacitance and the SRM-T1 is probably pretty limited in slew rate.  It would also be interesting to hear some subjective comments on the addition of a second headphone to some of these amps - is there an audible difference, and if so in what way?


----------



## eric65

n3rdling said:


> Ya, I don't hear any difference when connecting a second headphone to my DIY BH.  In fact, at meets I usually have had 2 headphones connected to it at the same time.  It would be interesting to see the measurements produced by adding a 2nd headphone to amps with a high output C or low slew rate...I think the LL mk1 has something like 150-200 pF output capacitance and the SRM-T1 is probably pretty limited in slew rate.*  It would also be interesting to hear some subjective comments on the addition of a second headphone to some of these amps - is there an audible difference, and if so in what way?*


 
  
 Hello
  
 I actually found, also, a degradation of the sound during a test comparison of my SR-009 and SR-007 (mk2 mod) on my SRM-727 vs combo RKV-WEE.
  
 With the SRM 727, when listening combined SR-007 with SR - 009 connected to the second headset jack of the SRM-727, I found this: I quote (translated into English)

" Otherwise, I advise against simultaneous listening of two headphones on the SRM 727: there is a degradation of the sound with in my ear a net loss of presence and relief (depth) of the sound by listening to the 007mk3 when I plug in more the 009 on the second headset jack; the sound of the 007mk3 becomes significantly better (more present and more robust) when the 009 is disconnected from the second outlet of the amplifier. "
  
 (See link to original in French; use translator : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post177525500.html#p177525500 )
  
 Secondarily, it seems to me not found this degradation of sound when simultaneously plugging two headphones (SR-009 + SR-007) on my combo RKV - WEE, most powerful combo, which seems immune. No difference in listening with one or two connected headphoness, including by shunting the WEE (1:50) transformers.


----------



## Tachikoma

angeche said:


> 1) I was sourced by the seller a 220V to 100 V converter but the Power is too low, it overheats and disconnects. I have bought a 220V to 110V converter. Works fine with it, and since I have seen that there is a fuse inside the amplifier connected to the main current plug, I assume that I run no risk (otherwise, the fuse would blow out). I understand that having a 100V converter would be better but they are extremely hard to source. So…. what are the risks, if any, I am running by doing this?


 
 The T1S has a universal power transformer, just take off the bottom of the amp to find the switch.


----------



## Lan647

martyn73 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying out the Stax 4170 system and can't detect any 'etching' in the mid-range. I'm not sure exactly what an etched mid range is supposed to sound like but the SR-407 headphones are clearly a step change from dynamic headphones. Compared to my previous Sennheiser HD 700 there's no excruciating emphasis of the treble so sibilance is not artificially emphasised. The SR-407 seems to produce a warm sound compared to my old Stax Basic system with no fatiguing treble issues.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can't speak for the 323 but I've also tried this ^ 4170 system and there is absolutely no etch to the sound. I think it sounds fantastic and far better than "high-end" dynamic cans like the HD 700, HD 800, T1 etc. Thinking about purchasing a 4170 system myself as I can't afford an SR-007 system at this time.


----------



## angeche

tachikoma said:


> The T1S has a universal power transformer, just take off the bottom of the amp to find the switch.


 
 Spot on! I opened it, changed it to 240V and no more external transformers needed! THANK YOU SO MUCH!


----------



## DairyProduce

lan647 said:


> Can't speak for the 323 but I've also tried this ^ 4170 system and there is absolutely no etch to the sound. I think it sounds fantastic and far better than "high-end" dynamic cans like the HD 700, HD 800, T1 etc. Thinking about purchasing a 4170 system myself as I can't afford an SR-007 system at this time.


 
  
 Just curious Lan, but what do you think is the biggest downside of the high end dynamic cans when compared to the entry/mid level electrostatic systems?


----------



## tdogzthmn

How does the sound of the SR-507 compare to the SR007 MKII?  I can't say there is really anything lacking with the 507's performance as it sounds great with everything I throw at it.  Seeing that I'm always listing to different genres I would need the SR007  to be a capable all-rounder like the 507 if I were to consider it as a replacement.


----------



## Lan647

dairyproduce said:


> Just curious Lan, but what do you think is the biggest downside of the high end dynamic cans when compared to the entry/mid level electrostatic systems?


 
  
 Not tried what many would consider to be an "entry" level STAX system, like the 202 with a cheaper STAX amp, but compared to the SRS-4170... it's just not close, at least not overall. Yes, the Audeze's may possibly have better bass than the 407 (not better than the SR-007 though) but the resolution, naturalness and transient response of STAX just brings new life into well recorded music in my opinion. There is an airy effortlessness (if that's even a word) and at the same time an organic presence to the sound that makes even the most expensive dynamics out there sound dull and lacking in realism compared. In short, I'd describe the better STAX earspeakers as simply providing a more transparent window into the music than any dynamic I've heard. 

 Consider me a STAX fan


----------



## DairyProduce

Cool. Thanks for the detailed explanation!


----------



## Crashem

FYI, PriceJapan shipping SR-009 ridiculously fast currently. In fact they have two in stock, but hopefully my payment hits and I get one of them.


----------



## n3rdling

I thought they were back-ordered for months?  That's cool if they caught up, I just hope they're not sending out returned/refurb'd units...


----------



## takato14

> the Audeze's may possibly have better bass than the 407 *(not better than the SR-007 though)*


 
 You have _got_ to be kidding.
  
 OH wait, you probably mean the 007 MKI. The MKII and III are total fart machines, the MKI is not...


----------



## project86

Fart machines? Is it their diet or....?


----------



## wink

It's their ports.
 The orifice that vents air from between your cheeks and their transducers.


----------



## Lan647

takato14 said:


> You have _got_ to be kidding.
> 
> OH wait, you probably mean the 007 MKI. The MKII and III are total fart machines, the MKI is not...




Yep, I mean the mk1


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Ugh, after years of owning the o2mk1 I feel like I'm starting to get the Stax bug.  Last week I think I came away preferring 407 to the esp950  out of a 007tii and I've always loved the Koss.  I'm trying to sell the Stax amp and maybe find a SS solution instead for my secondary rig.  Also ordered some 507 pads to see if it makes the 407 moar betters.  The Stax pads are adhered really crappily it seems, my OCD sense is killing me.
  
 What is this I see about the 207 being the favored set of the modern line?  I don't get it!


----------



## NoPants

mr.sneis said:


> Ugh, after years of owning the o2mk1 I feel like I'm starting to get the Stax bug.  Last week I think I came away preferring 407 to the esp950  out of a 007tii and I've always loved the Koss.  I'm trying to sell the Stax amp and maybe find a SS solution instead for my secondary rig.  Also ordered some 507 pads to see if it makes the 407 moar betters.  The Stax pads are adhered really crappily it seems, my OCD sense is killing me.
> 
> What is this I see about the 207 being the favored set of the modern line?  I don't get it!


 
 I think the implication is that the new models all have common drivers, so it becomes an issue of the frame introducing mechanical resonances which affect the sound. A few people have heard all the x07s and concluded that the 207 is the most neutral of the lot.


----------



## davidsh

Been messing around with sinegen and electri-q with my sigma NB. Anyone interested in a healthy discussion? It really made a big difference bringing down the boom-ish mid-high bass and up the sub-bass, along with adding a little in the presence region.
  
 I am on the fence about what to do with 1 kHz - 5 kHz and also the treble region, which is largely in line with 200-1000 Hz with just a little extra volume past 15 kHz.


----------



## glorkaglickflic

Is there anyone that can give a full description of the Airbow SC21?  It would be helpful if there could be a comparison to the Stax SR507.  I've read that the SC21 rivals the Stax 009 but I'm very skeptical of this claim.  Its very rare to get even a small amount of information about the Airbow except some blurb in Japanese from the manufacturer.  If this post belongs in the Stax forums, let me know.


----------



## bearFNF

glorkaglickflic said:


> Is there anyone that can give a full description of the Airbow SC21?  It would be helpful if there could be a comparison to the Stax SR507.  I've read that the SC21 rivals the Stax 009 but I'm very skeptical of this claim.  Its very rare to get even a small amount of information about the Airbow except some blurb in Japanese from the manufacturer.  If this post belongs in the Stax forums, let me know.


 
 if you haven't read it already try this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/630716/airbow-sr-sc21-stax-sr-507/15#post_10017755


----------



## NoPants

bearfnf said:


> if you haven't read it already try this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/630716/airbow-sr-sc21-stax-sr-507/15#post_10017755


 
  
 "It can be seen while saving power , Gaga 's is saving energy toward a climax in the introduction"
  
 I think the choice is clear


----------



## DefQon

glorkaglickflic said:


> Is there anyone that can give a full description of the Airbow SC21?  It would be helpful if there could be a comparison to the Stax SR507.  I've read that the SC21 rivals the Stax 009 but I'm very skeptical of this claim.  Its very rare to get even a small amount of information about the Airbow except some blurb in Japanese from the manufacturer.  If this post belongs in the Stax forums, let me know.


 
 Apparantly according to spritzer the SC21 and 507 are identical minus the cryo'd bs Airbow puts on all there stuff.


----------



## davidsh

Defqon is banned?!!!!!!?


----------



## dripf

davidsh said:


> Defqon is banned?!!!!!!?


 
  
 I gather that this forum requires 'self-responsibility'.
  
  


milosz said:


> Slew rates DO matter. Most amplifiers have such high slew rates that they are thought not to matter- and certainly I doubt whether anyone could hear the difference in two amplifiers, one with a slew rate of 200 V/uSec and one with a slew rate of 20 V/uSec - all other things being equal.  But if you had an amplifier with a 1 V/sec slew rate, do you really think it would sound OK?
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Why not use Vrms, as in this system it is the only variable, and is listed on all the available amps?
  
 Also, it should be possible to calculate and plot the spectral response of an amp at a given loudness. You could also calculate the SPL at which the amp becomes non-linear, and predict square wave form.


----------



## dude_500

dripf said:


> Why not use Vrms, as in this system it is the only variable, and is listed on all the available amps?


 
  
 How is Vrms the only variable of an electrostatic system? It is one of the least important characteristics of an amp in my opinion. Obviously you have to have enough, but any electrostatic amp does (otherwise it's just a pointless design). There are tons of other characteristics that will affect the sound way more than max Vrms swing.


----------



## dripf

Loaded slew rate at 20 kHz defines the maximum output of the system, and as frequency and capacitance are fixed, the peak voltage is the only value that needs to be examined.
  
 Or perhaps you disagree. I am not an electronics student; I am just a good customer.


----------



## dude_500

If loaded slew rate at 20khz limits the output voltage, the amplifier is poorly defined. A lot of the discussion points that have come up recently have been fairly binary issues (it either is slew rate limited, or it isn't... it either does have enough vrms to get desired SPL, or it doesn't... etc). Any amplifier that's not a straight up bad design has enough slew rate, and has enough vrms. Without a doubt, all the amps with a good reputation like BHSE, LL, WES, etc. are going to have enough slew rate and enough voltage swing.
  
 So, at that point you can look right past those numbers, because they quite literally don't matter given that there is enough (that is, when comparison shopping, if you came across an amp that said 100vp-p, you should run away from it. But if you are comparing amps with 800vp-p and 1200vp-p, the difference is completely irrelevant and you should treat them both as "yes, has enough voltage"). What then starts to matter is things like harmonic distortion and intermodulation distortion. These sorts of things will be affected by a load, and therefore different electrostatic transducers might affect an amp differently. A BHSE has feedback so headphones barely affect the output, but with something like the Wes the load could affect the output quite a bit.


----------



## nemomec

glorkaglickflic said:


> Is there anyone that can give a full description of the Airbow SC21?  It would be helpful if there could be a comparison to the Stax SR507.  I've read that the SC21 rivals the Stax 009 but I'm very skeptical of this claim.  Its very rare to get even a small amount of information about the Airbow except some blurb in Japanese from the manufacturer.  If this post belongs in the Stax forums, let me know.




I have the Airbow SC-11 and compared it to the Lambda SR-407. The Airbow sounds in my ears differrent to the SR-407. It has less bass extension (more neutral) and have more transparency like the SR-407. But the sound of the Airbow SC-11 is very technical like the new Lambda SR-x07 series and the SR-009. I doesn´t like this technical sound of the new stax models and prefer the older models in every way.


----------



## takato14

davidsh said:


> Defqon is banned?!!!!!!?


 
 What the ****. Did he even DO anything?


----------



## DairyProduce

Maybe it's april fools


----------



## davidsh

takato14 said:


> davidsh said:
> 
> 
> > Defqon is banned?!!!!!!?
> ...


 
 Well... I know he has been warned a number of times by admins. Most likely due to bad attitude or something along those lines.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

davidsh said:


> Well... I know he has been warned a number of times by admins. Most likely due to bad attitude or something along those lines.


 

 I'm under the impression that he likes to get into arguments...


----------



## cat6man

How about a trip down memory lane?
  
 I used to have an SR-3 (you never forget your first stax).
 If I wanted to pick an old retro headset, how would you compare the sound of the SR-3 versus the SR-5 headphone?
 I'll be running my SRD-7 from the output of a Kenwood car stereo (see sig)


----------



## Tachikoma

The SR-3 iirc, was much more limited in the frequency extremes compared to the SR-5, but had really nice mids. The SR-5 is a much more aggressive sounding headphone, mainly due to the lack of frequency rolloff, but have a similar sort of sound because they are the same headphone but with different drivers. I love my SR-5, it was my first forray into the world of electrostatic headphones


----------



## martyn73

s1rrah said:


> I can't speak towards comparing the two amps but I've read a lot from some pretty damned on-top-of-it Stax aficionados and from what I've read, the SRM-323S is considered by many to be one of the best (if not the best, considering the money) Stax amps currently available ... also, one of the most powerful.
> 
> You could probably expect a slightly more detailed image with the SRM-323S ... I use one currently (with 404LE's and Koss 950's) and love it. Had a SRM-T1 before and the 323S blows it away (for my preferences, anyway) ...


 
 Hi S1rrah,
  
 Thanks for the reply. I'm surprised that the SRM-323S is rated so highly compared to the vacuum tube equipped SRM-T1 and the SRM-006TS costs about £300 more than the SRM-323S. Does the SRM-T1 produce a warmer sound?
  
 Kind regards,
  
  
 Martyn


----------



## Ali-Pacha

"for my preferences, anyway" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I'm also a solid-state taliban, I can understand his rating.

 Ali


----------



## davidsh

martyn73 said:


> Hi S1rrah,
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I'm surprised that the SRM-323S is rated so highly compared to the vacuum tube equipped SRM-T1 and the SRM-006TS costs about £300 more than the SRM-323S. Does the SRM-T1 produce a warmer sound?
> 
> ...


 
 The T1 sound like a tube amp to my understanding, so yes it's warmer. That's also my impression, though the T1 isn't overly warm or anything. I think the general consensus is that it tend to pair well with many lambda models as it has enough power and many of the lambdas are also fairly bright, for some of them 'etched' in the treble.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

martyn73 said:


> Hi S1rrah,
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I'm surprised that the SRM-323S is rated so highly compared to the vacuum tube equipped SRM-T1 and the SRM-006TS costs about £300 more than the SRM-323S. Does the SRM-T1 produce a warmer sound?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm no stat aficionado but it seems to me that the tubed Stax amps are less recommended for Omegas becuase they don't have as much max voltage swing and current compared to the better solid state offerings.  The Lambdas and 009's are less demanding and can make more sense to pair with the tube amps, sort of like deficiencies of one can help mask faults of the other with earspeaker and amp which results in pleasing sound.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/582518/electrostatic-amplifiers-voltage-ratings


----------



## 3X0

mr.sneis said:


> I'm no stat aficionado but it seems to me that the tubed Stax amps are less recommended for Omegas becuase they don't have as much max voltage swing and current compared to the better solid state offerings.  The Lambdas and 009's are less demanding and can make more sense to pair with the tube amps, sort of like deficiencies of one can help mask faults of the other with earspeaker and amp which results in pleasing sound.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/582518/electrostatic-amplifiers-voltage-ratings


 
  But according to that exact thread the T1 and its variants offer the same voltage swing as the KGSS, 717, 323S, et al.
  
 I would not be surprised if the Stax tube amplifiers had audible nonlinear (or even linear) distortion figures even playing test signals.
 Quote:


dude_500 said:


> *So, at that point you can look right past those numbers, because they quite literally don't matter given that there is enough (that is, when comparison shopping, if you came across an amp that said 100vp-p, you should run away from it. But if you are comparing amps with 800vp-p and 1200vp-p, the difference is completely irrelevant and you should treat them both as "yes, has enough voltage"). What then starts to matter is things like harmonic distortion and intermodulation distortion.* These sorts of things will be affected by a load, and therefore different electrostatic transducers might affect an amp differently. A BHSE has feedback so headphones barely affect the output, but with something like the Wes the load could affect the output quite a bit.


 
 Thanks, I think this points us to the right questions. Would the introduction of nonlinear distortion products be dependent upon the amplifier's failure to provide undistorted voltage at the required output levels? I am unsure how this would occur in practice.


----------



## dude_500

3x0 said:


> Thanks, I think this points us to the right questions. Would the introduction of nonlinear distortion products be dependent upon the amplifier's failure to provide undistorted voltage at the required output levels? I am unsure how this would occur in practice.


 
  
 Yes, an amplifier will get more and more distortion as it gets closer to railing output. So an amplifier running with +-300V rails with a 500Vp-p output will have more distortion than the same amplifier running with +-400V rails with a 500Vp-p output. But as a result, most designs are just going to run at the maximum reasonable voltage for that topology, so this ultimately just becomes a distortion figure at a desired level. 
  
 In essence, just because an amplifier has high voltage rails doesn't mean it has less distortion than an amplifier with lower rails. For instance, a Woo WES has more voltage overhead (I think +-600v rails) than a Blue Hawaii, but a Blue Hawaii has WAY less distortion than a WES just because of its topology. 
  
 So in conclusion, anyone who says "that amp has more voltage overhead so it'll have less distortion" doesn't know what they're talking about. The ONLY time this is valid is if topologies are identical i.e. person x made a Blue Hawaii with +-400v rails and said it has less distortion than someone else's identically constructed Blue Hawaii who used +-300v rails.


----------



## s1rrah

martyn73 said:


> Hi S1rrah,
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I'm surprised that the SRM-323S is rated so highly compared to the vacuum tube equipped SRM-T1 and the SRM-006TS costs about £300 more than the SRM-323S. Does the SRM-T1 produce a warmer sound?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I found the T1 to be a bit "dull" sounding ... not very dynamic .. but then again, I had the SRM-T1W ... and so it might differ from the regular T1.
  
 And re the current offerings ...
  
 This is said very loosely but I've read around a bit that the Stax amp(s) that use the ECC99 tubes, such as the SRM-600LE or other amps that typically use 6FQ7(6CG7) tubes but have been modified to use the ECC99 tubes are much better than the amps that, by default use the 6FQ7(6CG7) tubes such as the STAX SRM-007tII and/or the STAX SRM-006tS ...
  
 Something about the 6FQ7 tubes not being well matched to the power being put through them (more technical, experienced Stax folk can clarify this maybe) ... and that the ECC99 tubes are much more capable in this regard and less subject to failure down the line...
  
 Otherwise, I find the clarity of the 323S to be quite lovely with both the Koss 950's and the 404LE's ... the T1 was okay but just didn't "sing" like the 323S ... seemed lifeless and with no real imaging/dynamics ... 
  
 Personally, I'd love to have a SRM-600LE ... but just super pleased with the 323S at the moment ... and if I upgrade, I'll most likely go big and with some sort of KGSS or Blue Hawaii variant ...
  
 Best...
 Joel


----------



## martyn73

s1rrah said:


> I found the T1 to be a bit "dull" sounding ... not very dynamic .. but then again, I had the SRM-T1W ... and so it might differ from the regular T1.
> 
> And re the current offerings ...
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Joel,
  
 Thanks for the advice. I think I'll go for the SR-407 (possibly 507) plus a SRM-323S and hopefully avoid the etch which I'm not hearing with the SR-407 with SRM-006TS. I'm inclined to go for the SR-407 as much of the extra expense with the SR-507 involves the leather earpads and new style headband which I understand can be quite fragile.
  
 The SRM-006TS is doubling up as a room heater and I'll probably 'get it in the neck' about the increased electricity bill!
  
 Best regards,
  
  
 Martyn


----------



## zachchen1996

I'm thinking about getting 009's sometime in the future, but I wont have enough to get a totl amp for now. What would you guys recommend as the best "cheap" amp for the 009's? (price: around 2k and under) I heard the srm-727a is one of the best cheap options, is this true? Thanks


----------



## gilency

Yes


----------



## Mr.Sneis

martyn73 said:


> Hi Joel,
> 
> Thanks for the advice. I think I'll go for the SR-407 (possibly 507) plus a SRM-323S and hopefully avoid the etch which I'm not hearing with the SR-407 with SRM-006TS. I'm inclined to go for the SR-407 as much of the extra expense with the SR-507 involves the leather earpads and new style headband which I understand can be quite fragile.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm confused, wouldn't the 323s accentuate etch with the 407?  (Is that what you want?)  I do admit, one thing the 507 has going for it is it looks pretty killer compared to the drab brown we got with the 407!


----------



## gilency

amanand88keys said:


> I'm under the impression that he likes to get into arguments...


 
 Defqon is a good guy. Hopefully he will be back.


----------



## takato14

gilency said:


> amanand88keys said:
> 
> 
> > I'm under the impression that he likes to get into arguments...
> ...


 
 +5k


----------



## nemomec

martyn73 said:


> s1rrah said:
> 
> 
> > I can't speak towards comparing the two amps but I've read a lot from some pretty damned on-top-of-it Stax aficionados and from what I've read, the SRM-323S is considered by many to be one of the best (if not the best, considering the money) Stax amps currently available ... also, one of the most powerful.
> ...


 
  
 The analytical SRM-323S is in my ears a good amp for the stax models with less highs like SR-007 and maybe the Lambda Nova Signature, Lambda Nova Basic, SR-202. With the rest of the Lambdas it sounds to bright for me, especially with the new Lambda SR-x07 series. A tube amp is in my opinion the better choice for the Lambdas! I prefer with the Lambdas a SRM-T1/T1S and a SRM-006tS (its better then the pre models SRM-006t and SRM-006tA/II) or a SRM-007t. Also a perfect match is a modded SRA-10/12S + any Lambda model.


----------



## rx79ez08

Can some one explain to me what 'etch' mean in this context?
  
 I have had the LS for sometime. I found that while there is some emphasis on treble, it is quite manageable. Unlike headphones like Grado and the ATH-AD900 which is too sharp for my liking.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

gilency said:


> Defqon is a good guy. Hopefully he will be back.


 

 I didn't say that he's not a good guy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 maybe some discussions got out of hand , that can happen no matter how good your intentions are.


----------



## AnakChan

Could we go back on the Stax topic again please chaps ?


----------



## Jonathan66100

Hi all,
 For me, with my Omega ( 1993 ), the T1 is best on everything compared to SRM1 MK2 PRO.
 Scene much greater, and sound far less metal
  
  
 PS : I support you Defqon.


----------



## dripf

rx79ez08 said:


> I have had the LS for sometime. I found that while there is some emphasis on treble, it is quite manageable. Unlike headphones like Grado and the ATH-AD900 which is too sharp for my liking.


 
  
 Coincident to your post, my AD900 is why I find myself here. I had been listening to a pair of stock mobile in-ears while on holiday, wishing that I had packed the AD900 the whole time. When I returned, I was anxious to listen to the new album. I put my cans on, pressed play, and was disgusted. The audio-technica squealed like a pig. I enjoyed the songs more on the freebie pair. Why had the 900/700s been so sensationalised in Australia? Stax setups were niche and joyless, they said.
  
 Its inaccuracy was now obvious to me. I demanded accuracy, and knew from my calibrated flat panels that accuracy gives the most pleasing and usable result. My first step was to equalize the missing low frequency energy according to graphs on the internet. This improved the sound. I then discovered that the frequency peaks were position dependent like most other headphones, except the normal wearing position was the problem. The AD900 must be pushed forward to the point of being worn supra-aurally to be tolerable. And still, I had to listen to sine sweeps and parametrically equalize the peaks at 3.8 and 6.8 kHz further. The rather poor channel matching above 2 kHz also worsened the result. These could be made tolerable, but never trustworthy nor pleasing.
  
 They also needed an amplifier now, after -10 dB pre-amp gain.
  
 I then came across Mr Rin Choi's Stax measurements, and discovered that the audio transducer had essentially been perfected with the SRM-Monitor. And so I'll buy the 3170 and convolve it with the ED-1 FIR. I might also experiment with a bass boost to fit the Olive-Welti target response. It's an expensive purchase, but what is a lifetime of pleasing listening worth?


----------



## davidsh

Good luck i suppose, but the 307 is especially edged.


----------



## dripf

No evidence to indicate the ED-1 wouldn't effectively compensate the 307.
  
 Besides, thirty years have passed. Computers are now ubiquitous, and PEQ is free, lossless and offers complete control. It surprises me that so few people use it. Everyone seems to prefer buying and ebaying endlessly.


----------



## dude_500

Just a random though, are people who have their Stax lose balance or other strange issues using NOS DAC's? Last week I had a non-band-limited noise tone from a faulty grounding out of a PC sound card going through my headphones at reasonably good volume for about half an hour before I noticed (didn't have them on at the time), and they went completely unstable and the charge balance was totally weird for the whole night but they eventually returned to normality by the next day.


----------



## s1rrah

dude_500 said:


> Just a random though, are people who have their Stax lose balance or other strange issues using NOS DAC's? Last week I had a non-band-limited noise tone from a faulty grounding out of a PC sound card going through my headphones at reasonably good volume for about half an hour before I noticed (didn't have them on at the time), and they went completely unstable and the charge balance was totally weird for the whole night but they eventually returned to normality by the next day.


 
  
 I've only used a NOS DAC with all Stax gear I've had and currently have ... a MHDT Labs Stockholm ... running via optical out from a PC ... 
  
 Nothing but love ...
  
 Good luck (not likely that it's related to NOS vs. Oversampling DACS ... can't imagine why, anyway.


----------



## 3X0

dripf said:


> No evidence to indicate the ED-1 wouldn't effectively compensate the 307.
> Besides, thirty years have passed. Computers are now ubiquitous, and *PEQ is free, lossless and offers complete control*. It surprises me that so few people use it. Everyone seems to prefer buying and ebaying endlessly.


 
 In linear terms, anyway. Nonlinear distortion is another beast but electrostatics seem to operate so well in those dimensions that it isn't as big of a deal as with dynamics.


dude_500 said:


> Yes, an amplifier will get more and more distortion as it gets closer to railing output. So an amplifier running with +-300V rails with a 500Vp-p output will have more distortion than the same amplifier running with +-400V rails with a 500Vp-p output. But as a result, most designs are just going to run at the maximum reasonable voltage for that topology, so this ultimately just becomes a distortion figure at a desired level.
> In essence, just because an amplifier has high voltage rails doesn't mean it has less distortion than an amplifier with lower rails. For instance, a Woo WES has more voltage overhead (I think +-600v rails) than a Blue Hawaii, but a Blue Hawaii has WAY less distortion than a WES just because of its topology.
> 
> So in conclusion, anyone who says "that amp has more voltage overhead so it'll have less distortion" doesn't know what they're talking about. The ONLY time this is valid is if topologies are identical i.e. person x made a Blue Hawaii with +-400v rails and said it has less distortion than someone else's identically constructed Blue Hawaii who used +-300v rails.


 
 OK, thanks. I'm curious to test this in practice. I've played with some fair orchestral and opera recordings and would like the validate any presence of audible distortion before considering anything greater.
  
 I'm not really a fan of tube designs so I tend to stay away from them (I feel the same way with power amplifier topologies). It seems the only suitable transistor-based "upgrade" would be a KGSSHV but I did not observe a confident improvement when I sampled it, even with demanding material.
  
 For clarity, I am not in search for an amplifier that performs the best as far as amplifiers can perform (i.e. in theory). I am interested in the most affordable amplifier that performs the best as far as I can hear (i.e. in practice).


----------



## dude_500

3x0 said:


> OK, thanks. I'm curious to test this in practice. I've played with some fair orchestral and opera recordings and would like the validate any presence of audible distortion before considering anything greater.
> 
> I'm not really a fan of tube designs so I tend to stay away from them (I feel the same way with power amplifier topologies). It seems the only suitable transistor-based "upgrade" would be a KGSSHV but I did not observe a confident improvement when I sampled it, even with demanding material.
> 
> For clarity, I am not in search for an amplifier that performs the best as far as amplifiers can perform (i.e. in theory). I am interested in the most affordable amplifier that performs the best as far as I can hear (i.e. in practice).


 
  
 Realize that the BH (and T2 if you want to go that route) is for all intents and purposes a solid state amplifier. The tubes are convenient output stages, but given the topology it doesn't express the characteristics of a typical tube amp (that is, there are no warm lush 2nd harmonics out of a blue hawaii).
  
 Except in extreme situations, it is unlikely you will be able to perceive the difference in rail voltages for reasonable selections in any double blind test. Instead, you'll probably want to use a spectrum analyzer if you really want to see the differences.


----------



## astrostar59

> Let me say that my first-hand experience with the KGSSHV was less than revelatory.


 
 Interesting. I see you run the SR-007s Mk1 or Mk2? and a Stax 323.
  
 I also use the SR-007 MK2.5s with a SRM-717, but I feed it from my Audio Note pre-amp out and run
 the Stax without it's volume i.e. flat out at Class A. The sound I am getting is a lot more dynamic and
 lively than direct from my DAC into the Stax amp with it's volume control switched in.
  
 I can listen very loud if I want, with no audible clipping, so I wonder if the stories of the SR-007s being
 difficult to drive is so accurate?
  
 I have tried the system with Delta-Sigma DACs but I found I preferred None Oversampling tubed based types
 fed by a server with good SPDIF conversion outboard.
 I would recommend trying a NOS DAC if you can. The front end is key to getting a great sound on the Stax, as if
 ruthlessly reveals everything. It would be cheaper than going for a mega amp like a KGSS or BHSE.


----------



## 3X0

dude_500 said:


> Realize that the BH (and T2 if you want to go that route) is for all intents and purposes a solid state amplifier. The tubes are convenient output stages, but given the topology it doesn't express the characteristics of a typical tube amp (that is, there are no warm lush 2nd harmonics out of a blue hawaii).
> *Except in extreme situations, it is unlikely you will be able to perceive the difference in rail voltages for reasonable selections in any double blind test*. Instead, you'll probably want to use a spectrum analyzer if you really want to see the differences.


 
 That's very interesting -- I was under the impression that tubes in the output stage are what might contribute significantly to the "tube sound." From my experience with power amplifiers I was under the impression that a very good valve amplifier would sound similar to a very good transistor amplifier. I believe "lesser" tube implementations (allegedly WES?) introduce too much voluntary distortion and randomness to the sound for me to chance it.
  
 The bold is precisely what I wanted to know; thanks for sharing your expertise on the matter. I might arrange for a properly controlled test between the 323S and the KGSSHV when I have the chance (perhaps also the BHSE if I'm lucky enough to borrow one). But I imagine I'll be sitting pretty for a bit until I feel like breaching practical performance limits (maybe when I'm in my 30s or 40s or something).


----------



## dude_500

Yes, the Wes is very very colored. I somewhat like its sound but from a purely technical standpoint many consider it to be a very poorly designed amplifier. If you don't like lush tube sound most definitely avoid the Wes. It is true that a well designed tube amp sounds quite similar to solid state. The BH just takes it a step further by adding global feedback and a solid state input stage.


----------



## jgazal

dude_500 said:


> Realize that the BH (and T2 if you want to go that route) is for all intents and purposes a solid state amplifier. The tubes are convenient output stages, but given the topology it doesn't express the characteristics of a typical tube amp (that is, there are no warm lush 2nd harmonics out of a blue hawaii).


 
  
 What about distortion caracther of 6DJ8/6922/ECC88 input stage on the T2?


----------



## dude_500

jgazal said:


> What about distortion caracther of 6DJ8/6922/ECC88 input stage on the T2?


 
  
 It might distort a little, but it's a very well designed input stage. It might account for the ever so slightly laid back tonality of the T2 compared to the BH (or so they say, I've not heard a T2). In general, I don't understand why the T2 is better than the BH. It's got the same output stage and a seemingly unnecessary tube input stage.


----------



## jgazal

The designer perhaps was very fond of that input stage when he drew it.


----------



## astrostar59

> the characteristics of a typical tube amp (that is, there are no warm lush 2nd harmonics out of a blue hawaii).


 
 Hmm, that might be relevant in 1960 but any well designed tube amplifier with tube regulated power supply and tube output will
 be so linear and clear, you might just think it is SS topology!
  
 Modern tube amplifiers give full bandwidth and low distortion we all expect from Modern hi-fi components, but avoid
 the pitfall of many SS designs as transistors are not linear and require lots of extra circuit trickery to make them so.
 It is this that changes the sound in my opinion. 
  
 I have lived with Krell and McIntosh (SS) varieties, and lost interest in music from RedBook. Tubes brought me back.
  
 Yes, an 18W SET power amp won't drive huge inefficient speakers, which are designed for bigger output SS amps,
 BUT find a good speaker of 92DB efficiency and the sound will hook you in.
  
 My 2 cents. Each to their own, but don't sling none facts around please....


----------



## 3X0

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. I see you run the SR-007s Mk1 or Mk2? and a Stax 323.
> 
> I also use the SR-007 MK2.5s with a SRM-717, but I feed it from my Audio Note pre-amp out and run
> the Stax without it's volume i.e. flat out at Class A. The sound I am getting is a lot more dynamic and
> ...


 
 Mine is the original SR-Omega (1993-1995). Are you sure the Audio Note pre-amp's inclusion in the circuit is not a function of differences in the final output level?
  
 I'm not sure of the benefit of NOS DACs though I haven't done a proper level-matched comparison against Delta-Sigma designs. I don't see much of a reason to switch at present though. For one thing, oversampling doesn't introduce audible distortion...
  


astrostar59 said:


> Hmm, that might be relevant in 1960 but any well designed tube amplifier with tube regulated power supply and tube output will
> be so linear and clear, you might just think it is SS topology!
> 
> *Modern tube amplifiers give full bandwidth and low distortion we all expect from Modern hi-fi components, but avoid*
> ...


 
 I actually believe linear-performing valve designs were achieved as early as the 1930s.
  
 There are still some tube designs that deliberately sound off/"tubey", evident even with simple linear distortion in the frequency response.
  
 For example, here's a McIntosh MC275 power amplifier:

 And here's a Hyperion HT-88 power amplifier:

 The +-1.5dB variance in the FR of the HT-88 will be audible, whereas the +-0.5dB in the MC275 will likely not.
  
 I believe it is cheaper to design a linear transistor amplifier that performs transparently, as Bob Carver had demonstrated on numerous occasions. A few years ago I used to think great transistor gear sounded like great valve gear, but I believe the reality is the other way around.


----------



## davidsh

astrostar59 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Tubes being technically better! What is this sorcery? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Anyway, I dared pushing my T1 to 2 o'clock for some 30 seconds with fairly dynamic and peaky music. Used my sigma.. Did I hear any clipping? Well, I might have, though it could just as well have been my ears distorting or something like that. Point is, to push it into clipping I'd definitely need to go way past comfortable listening volume. Maybe I could tolerate bass that loud in a veeery dynamic recording. My mom even came to the door to hear what was going on.


----------



## jgazal

Had the 2SK389 already been in fabrication when the T2 was designed?


----------



## kevin gilmore

2sk389/2sj109 came out sometime in early 1980's timeframe.
 At least that is the oldest datasheet I have on those parts.


----------



## Crashem

Just got noticed my sr009 shipped from japan. A lot faster than I originally thought would happen. Bhse on order. Need to get an amp ASAP. Don't want these sr009 sitting around too long without use. Might have to get woo wee and hook them up to this spare parasound a51 lying around.


----------



## AnakChan

I think Stax just finished a batch. I noticed that Fuiya Avic actually had them in stock too rather than just order.


----------



## takato14

crashem said:


> Just got noticed my sr009 shipped from japan. A lot faster than I originally thought would happen. Bhse on order. Need to get an amp ASAP. Don't want these sr009 sitting around too long without use. Might have to get woo wee and hook them up to this spare parasound a51 lying around.


 
 God, that would be pretty horrible, getting the headphone first and having no way to power it... went through something similar this Christmas when I got a TH600 and didn't have my 3.5mm adapter anymore.


----------



## kothganesh

takato14 said:


> God, that would be pretty horrible, getting the headphone first and having no way to power it... went through something similar this Christmas when I got a TH600 and didn't have my 3.5mm adapter anymore.


 
 +2. Tell me about it. I took delivery of a KGSSHV and realized I have no interconnects from my DAC to the amp. Cooling my heels for about two weeks until my cable is sent.


----------



## milosz

> For example, here's a McIntosh MC275 power amplifier:
> 
> And here's a Hyperion HT-88 power amplifier:


 
  
 Those wide deviations from flat frequency response of tube amps come from interactions of their output transformer / output stage / amount of negative feedback employed with the impedance variations in speakers.   These particular curves look like the kind of "simulated 3-way speaker load" curves that Stereophile runs.  Depending on the design, one tube amp will have greater or lesser "sensitivty" to speaker impedance than others.  It mostly comes down to Ohms-law kind of interaction between the source impedance of the tube amp and the impedance curve of the speaker.  Speakers have crossovers,  lots of drivers and so on, their impedance-vs-frequency curves can be pretty hairy.  And remember impedance is a vector quantity, not scalar....
  
 Solid state amps do not exhibit nearly as much of this interaction, mostly because their output source impedance can be REALLY low.
  
 With a HEADPHONE AMP designed to drive electrostatic headphones I doubt you'd see much variance of output vs. frequency.  Headphones of all types - including electrostatic- don't have anywhere near the impedance excursions that speakers exhibit.  So "tube sound" in an electrostatic headphone amplifier is more likely a result of harmonic distortion "flavor" than of frequency response variance.  All amplifiers distort, and tube amps tend to have a lower amount of high-order harmonics in their distortion products than solid state amps, many people attribute the 
 tube sound" in part to this fact.
  
 By the way, using a given set of speakers with a given tube amp can end up with less than great sound, for reasons noted above. The resulting frequency response might be pretty funky, matching speaker to amp can be hit-or-miss.  But I also heard a pairing which made the speakers sound GREAT>  unexpectedly so. Kind of a roundabout way to add an EQ curve to your playback chain, but the frequency-response artifact introduced by some tube amps can compliment certain speakers.  I put a pair of little Polk RT25i on a budget Audioromy FU29 tube amp and I could not believe how great it sounded.  The Audioromy FU-29 is a pretty decent low-cost amp, about 25 class-A watts per channel, and the RT25i's  are known to be great little budget  speakers but the combination really sounded so much better than I expected that I had to have some musician friends come over to make sure I wasn't imagining things or having a flashback to the 1960's.  They also agreed that the sound was pretty wonderful on the RT25i's with the tube amp, except the bass - already pretty light from the Polk's 5-inch woofers - was really kind of "mellowed out" with the tube amp, and not very "tight."  It didn't sound wooly or flabby, just lacked much punch below 60 Hz and had a little extra warmth around 200 Hz.  Still the mids and treble were just wonderful.  So, "tube magic" isn't about how inherently GOOD a tube amp is, it's more about how nicely it can WORK with the right speakers.


----------



## bearded man

crashem said:


> Just got noticed my sr009 shipped from japan. A lot faster than I originally thought would happen. Bhse on order. Need to get an amp ASAP. Don't want these sr009 sitting around too long without use. Might have to get woo wee and hook them up to this spare parasound a51 lying around.





How long it took ?


----------



## Crashem

bearded man said:


> How long it took ?


 
  
 Ordered on 3/31 as I knew they suddenly got stock.  SR009 went out of 4/4.  But I think times are increasing as we speak.  I think up to 2-3 weeks, but my guess is it will go back to months in a couple of weeks.


----------



## Crashem

takato14 said:


> God, that would be pretty horrible, getting the headphone first and having no way to power it... went through something similar this Christmas when I got a TH600 and didn't have my 3.5mm adapter anymore.


 
  
 Tell me about it.  I think I have KGSSHV lined up (cough S).  Got a great offer from Darin to test out that new Vostok.  Looking into it now.  Waiting on the upgrade kit for Perfect Wave DAC to Direct Stream.  Just starting my wait on the BHSE unless someone backs out and Justin blesses me with one.  All in all a lot of waiting.


----------



## bearded man

crashem said:


> Ordered on 3/31 as I knew they suddenly got stock.  SR009 went out of 4/4.  But I think times are increasing as we speak.  I think up to 2-3 weeks, but my guess is it will go back to months in a couple of weeks.





Very fast.Some members say they had to wait 3 or 4 months.


----------



## gilency

Justin has them as "in stock" at headamp. 
That's where I bought mine from.


----------



## bearFNF

He told me it would be about 4-5 month wait for mine...maybe this has changed??


----------



## justin w.

I dont have them

I dont know what is going on with stax in north america. I just order and wait


----------



## AnakChan

> anakchan said:
> 
> 
> > I think Stax just finished a batch. I noticed that Fuiya Avic actually had them in stock too rather than just order.
> ...


 
  
 I think they sell out pretty quick. I posted less than 24 hrs ago that Fujiya had SR-009s in stock. Checking now, it says "Sold Out". I'd guess it's the same story overseas too.


----------



## themad

anakchan said:


> I think they sell out pretty quick. I posted less than 24 hrs ago that Fujiya had SR-009s in stock. Checking now, it says "Sold Out". I'd guess it's the same story overseas too.




Really? They sell out that fast?
I shouldn't have a problem to buy one during the festival in May, should I? 

If you don't mind, I'd like to PM you closer to the date to get some tips on that.


----------



## arnaud

I wouldn't bet much on you being able to pick up some 009 on the way back home though. Reserving before hand would be a more reasonable bet...


----------



## AnakChan

Pretty much what Arnaud said.
  
 So today I popped by Stax with another HF member on visit to Tokyo and we did see that SR-009 in the glass cabinet. It was wrapped up and there was a sticker on which I believe says it's reserved.
  
 I'm going to speculate that most likely Fujiya had quite a few pre-ordered and when the batch came in, they had a spare or someone cancelled their order and put that up on their web page a day back. However Fujiya also tweets whenever they have something special like that available so any followers who are interested would probably call them and order them quickly.


----------



## themad

Thanks guys.
I'll call Fujiya and see how it goes.
Any other stores I should check?

I'm sure reserving and maybe paying for that over the phone will be quite challenging, considering I don't speak Japanese...


----------



## AnakChan

You're not gonna have much luck if you can't speak Japanese and if you're not local. These places are for local Japanese customers only. You could try Price Japan but be warned about warranty, etc. (go back a few pages or search for "warranty" on this thread and you may get a few hits).


----------



## themad

I thought so...
I'll see if a good friend can do something about it. I'm staying in Tokyo for 3 weeks, so I'll search for it on the very first days and reserve in case I don't find any.

Thanks again for your inputs!


----------



## 3X0

milosz said:


> With a HEADPHONE AMP designed to drive electrostatic headphones I doubt you'd see much variance of output vs. frequency.  Headphones of all types - including electrostatic- don't have anywhere near the impedance excursions that speakers exhibit.  So "tube sound" in an electrostatic headphone amplifier is more likely a result of harmonic distortion "flavor" than of frequency response variance.  All amplifiers distort, and tube amps tend to have a lower amount of high-order harmonics in their distortion products than solid state amps, many people attribute the
> tube sound" in part to this fact.
> 
> By the way, using a given set of speakers with a given tube amp can end up with less than great sound, for reasons noted above. The resulting frequency response might be pretty funky, matching speaker to amp can be hit-or-miss.  But I also heard a pairing which made the speakers sound GREAT>  unexpectedly so. Kind of a roundabout way to add an EQ curve to your playback chain, but the frequency-response artifact introduced by some tube amps can compliment certain speakers.  I put a pair of little Polk RT25i on a budget Audioromy FU29 tube amp and I could not believe how great it sounded.  The Audioromy FU-29 is a pretty decent low-cost amp, about 25 class-A watts per channel, and the RT25i's  are known to be great little budget  speakers but the combination really sounded so much better than I expected that I had to have some musician friends come over to make sure I wasn't imagining things or having a flashback to the 1960's.  They also agreed that the sound was pretty wonderful on the RT25i's with the tube amp, except the bass - already pretty light from the Polk's 5-inch woofers - was really kind of "mellowed out" with the tube amp, and not very "tight."  It didn't sound wooly or flabby, just lacked much punch below 60 Hz and had a little extra warmth around 200 Hz.  Still the mids and treble were just wonderful.  So, "tube magic" isn't about how inherently GOOD a tube amp is, it's more about how nicely it can WORK with the right speakers.


 
 Of course, I was responding directly to the allegation that transistor amplifiers were subject to greater flaws than valve designs. That is not the case.
  
 I don't believe in the approach within your last paragraph because it subjects your signal to the element of randomness when a linear and transparent alternative solution (before the transducers) might be readily available.


----------



## jgazal

milosz said:


> Those wide deviations from flat frequency response of tube amps come from interactions of their output transformer / output stage / amount of negative feedback employed with the impedance variations in speakers.   These particular curves look like the kind of "simulated 3-way speaker load" curves that Stereophile runs.  Depending on the design, one tube amp will have greater or lesser "sensitivty" to speaker impedance than others.  It mostly comes down to Ohms-law kind of interaction between the source impedance of the tube amp and the impedance curve of the speaker.  Speakers have crossovers,  lots of drivers and so on, their impedance-vs-frequency curves can be pretty hairy.  And remember impedance is a vector quantity, not scalar....
> 
> (...)


 
  
 We may have better transducers in the long run to ease the load of the amplifier. Maybe we would not need even stators, reducing reflections. Have a look at this research on a thermoacoustic transducer:
  


> *Flexible, Stretchable, Transparent Carbon Nanotube Thin Film Loudspeakers*
> 
> Most of the loudspeakers used today consist at least of a cone, a voice coil attached to the apex of the cone, a permanent magnet fixed to the loudspeaker’s frame, and an enclosure. By applying an audio current waveform to the nanotube (CNT) thin film could be a practical magnet-free loudspeaker simply by applying an audio frequency current through it. This CNT thin film loudspeaker can generate sound with wide frequency range, high sound pressure level (SPL), and low total harmonic distortion (THD). The nanothickness CNT thin films we used are flexible, stretchable, and transparent and can be tailored into many shapes and sizes, freestanding or placed on a variety of rigid or flexible insulating surfaces. Furthermore, the CNT thin film loudspeaker has a very simple structure, without magnets and moving parts. Such a single-element thin film loudspeaker might open up new applications of and approaches to manufacturing loudspeakers and other acoustic devices.
> 
> ...


----------



## dripf

Thermoacoustic speakers aren't high fidelity. However, electrostatically driven graphene has already demonstrated excellent acoustic performance. Methods to low cost / high quality graphene is an enormous topic, but the material is readily applicable to Stax, and proposes to improve their products.
  
 On the other hand, the availability of $1000 voice coil headphones suggests a general disinterest in science on behalf of users, right?


----------



## jgazal

dripf said:


> Thermoacoustic speakers aren't high fidelity. However, electrostatically driven graphene has already demonstrated excellent acoustic performance. Methods to low cost / high quality graphene is an enormous topic, but the material is readily applicable to Stax, and proposes to improve their products.


 
  
 Would you please point me thermo acoustic speakers available for purchase?
  
 I see the electrostatically graphene you mentioned: http://www.physics.berkeley.edu/research/zettl/projects/graphene_loudspeaker/speaker.html. Which is the thickness of that graphene diaphragm? Is it a single layer graphene or it has a substrate? If it is not a single layer graphene, how graphene in a substrate would differ in quality from mylar?
  
 Would you point me where to buy similar single layer graphene or a graphene in a substrate sheets to made larger diameter diaphragms (i.e. a diaphragm for the SR-003 or SR-009)?
  
 I think consumers were not concerned about teflon or lithium until they realized their utility.


----------



## dude_500

You can get graphene sheets here, although they seem to be a minimum of 25um thick, which is far too thick for an electrostatic driver. Also, graphene is conductive which seems to me to make it a fairly bad electrostatic diaphragm material. The demos on electrostatic graphene drivers thus far has been extremely small sized drivers, nothing like stax headphones.
  
 https://graphene-supermarket.com/Graphene-Coatings/


----------



## davidsh

It would be very cool if some of the DIYers would experiment with graphene for their 'stats. Don't know if it is viable to do so in the first place.
  
 EDIT: I suppose the thread above answers that.. Maybe in the future.


----------



## dripf

jgazal said:


> Would you please point me thermo acoustic speakers available for purchase?
> 
> I see the electrostatically graphene you mentioned: http://www.physics.berkeley.edu/research/zettl/projects/graphene_loudspeaker/speaker.html. Which is the thickness of that graphene diaphragm? Is it a single layer graphene or it has a substrate? If it is not a single layer graphene, how graphene in a substrate would differ in quality from mylar?
> 
> ...


 

 Thermoacoustic speakers are inefficient at audible frequencies and exhibit a response slope that is unsuitable.
  
 The thickness of the diaphragm demonstrated in that paper was determined to be about 30 nm via measured light transmittance. The graphene film would represent a perfect diaphragm transducer.


----------



## dude_500

dripf said:


> Thermoacoustic speakers are inefficient at audible frequencies and exhibit a response slope that is unsuitable.
> 
> The thickness of the diaphragm demonstrated in that paper was determined to be about 30 nm via measured light transmittance. The graphene film would represent a perfect diaphragm transducer.


 
  
 Assuming one could purchase graphene that thin, which it appears one cannot, wouldn't it still be nearly as conductive as metal? An electrostatic diaphragm should not be anywhere close to that conductive.


----------



## dripf

The diaphragms are insulated.


----------



## jgazal

dripf said:


> Thermoacoustic speakers are inefficient at audible frequencies and exhibit a response slope that is unsuitable.


 
  
 Can carbon nanotubes film transducers also be classified as inefficient at audible frequencies? I think that article also covers such slope:
  


> (...)
> 
> Despite the excellent acoustic performance of the CNT loudspeaker, it has a drawback. As shown in Figure 2d, the output frequency doubles that of the input. The human voice and music sound strange when a commercial bipolar audio amplifier is used to drive the CNT thin film loudspeaker. A simple solution is to add a direct current bias _I_o to the alternating current for driving such CNT loudspeakers. To achieve this, we use a very simple single transistor amplifier to drive our CNT loudspeaker, which can reproduce the input sound wave signals faithfully. The schematic circuit is shown in Figure S2 of the Supporting Information. Note that the impedance of the CNT loudspeaker is pure resistance (see Supporting Information, Figure S1), and the design of the amplification circuit is much simpler than that for inductive voice-coil loudspeakers. (...)
> 
> http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/nl802750z


 
  
 Indeed an interesting topic.


----------



## n3rdling

dripf said:


> The diaphragms are insulated.


 
 So what's the total thickness (really weight) of the moving diaphragm?
  
 I've always thought that graphene should eventually be used for the stators, not the diaphragm.
  
 Traits important for the diaphragm:
 - lightweight
 - high resistance (low conductance)
 - very pliable
 - long term dimensional stability
 - able to flex continuously without break/fracture
  
 Traits important to stators:
 - high conductivity
 - as rigid as possible
 - related, high rigidity allows for thinner stators which allows for smaller and more numerous holes which allows for more evenly distributed charge on the surface (no "hotspots")
  
 Graphene has conductivity and rigidity that are off the charts.  I'm hoping that one day it will be possible to consistently make the graphene sheets thick enough so that they can be used as ultra strong stators.  There will also need to be a way to shape the graphene sheets (to insert the stator holes, etc).


----------



## jgazal

n3rdling said:


> So what's the total thickness (really weight) of the moving diaphragm?
> 
> I've always thought that graphene should eventually be used for the stators, not the diaphragm.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had this doubt also. I think stiffness can also refer to an elastic material. As I see it, it can take a lot of force without tearing apart, but it does not mean it won't bend. I have found this article particularly interesting: http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2008/jul/17/graphene-has-record-breaking-strength.
  


dripf said:


> Thermoacoustic speakers are inefficient at audible frequencies and exhibit a response slope that is unsuitable.
> 
> The thickness of the diaphragm demonstrated in that paper was determined to be about 30 nm via measured light transmittance. The graphene film would represent a perfect diaphragm transducer.


 
  
 Thank you for mentioning this paper (http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1303/1303.2391.pdf)! They give the recipe to cook the graphene! Nice.
  


> Graphene was previously used to construct a thermoacoustic loudspeaker12-14. In the thermoacoustic configuration graphene serves as a stationary heater to alternately heat the surrounding air thereby producing , via thermal expansion, a time-dependent pressure variation, i.e. sound wave. The method is especially effective in the ultrasonic region because of graphene’s small heat capacity (for this reason, carbon nanotube films can also be utilized15-17). However, for thermoacoustic speakers operating at audio frequencies, most input energy is dissipated by heat conduction through the air and does not generate sound12. For example, the power efficiency for a graphene thermoacoustic speaker is exceedingly small, decreasing from ~10-6 at 20 kHz to ~10-8 at 3 kHz12,13. The thermoacoustic approach also suffers from sound distortion because the heating power is proportional to the square of the input signal and the transduction is therefore intrinsically non-linear15.


 
  
 So I think thermoacoustic CNT film is ruled out...


----------



## dude_500

jgazal said:


> Thank you for mentioning this paper (http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1303/1303.2391.pdf)! They give the recipe to cook the graphene! Nice.


 
  
 Awesome! Sounds easy enough. I'll work on getting setup to do this for my DIY drivers.


----------



## davidsh

dude_500 said:


> jgazal said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for mentioning this paper (http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1303/1303.2391.pdf)! They give the recipe to cook the graphene! Nice.
> ...


 
 Great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 But you still can't get thin enough graphene sheets?


----------



## dude_500

davidsh said:


> Great
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It seems as though I can make them. Also, I actually did find a number of sources online for extremely thin graphene sheets that come backed on foil (the trick is to search 'foil backed graphene sheets'. Then I would acid etch the foil away after gluing it to a diaphragm holder. The problem is they are in the range of $50/square inch, so I'll have to make my own.


----------



## Crashem

crashem said:


> Just got noticed my sr009 shipped from japan. A lot faster than I originally thought would happen. Bhse on order. Need to get an amp ASAP. Don't want these sr009 sitting around too long without use. Might have to get woo wee and hook them up to this spare parasound a51 lying around.


 
  
 Wow postman just dropped off my new SR-009s!  That was fast through EML.  Went out on 4/4 from Japan.


----------



## darinf

crashem said:


> Wow postman just dropped off my new SR-009s!  That was fast through EML.  Went out on 4/4 from Japan.


 
 Congratulations! Yes, that is fast.
  
 But more importantly did you find/buy/borrow an amp? That would be the worst torture to have pair of 009's with no amp!


----------



## Crashem

darinf said:


> Congratulations! Yes, that is fast.
> 
> But more importantly did you find/buy/borrow an amp? That would be the worst torture to have pair of 009's with no amp!




The torture has already begun. Waiting on kgsshv from spritzer which should hopefully hit me in 2 weeks. Who knows how long for the bhse I have on order. I started to open the sr009 then stopped when I remembered I could use them. Funny thing is I got my eml 2a3 tubes today and no amp to play them in. More waiting. More torture.


----------



## zolkis

dude_500 said:


> Assuming one could purchase graphene that thin, which it appears one cannot, wouldn't it still be nearly as conductive as metal? An electrostatic diaphragm should not be anywhere close to that conductive.


 
  
 Forgive my ignorance, but I thought in the given structure they can't short circuit the stators. I would think that arcs can't form either, since it's exceptionally smooth. Besides, I expect conductivity is *very* directional with graphene. 
 As dripf says, they are insulated, but is that really needed? 
 Practice will tell.
 They are indeed pretty much perfect materials for headphones, unfortunately not (yet) so much for loudspeakers.


----------



## n3rdling

It's not just about arcing though.  A high resistance on the diaphragm will prevent charge migration and allow the transducers to operate in "constant charge" mode.  Are there any distortion measurements of that graphene project?


----------



## Lan647

Ordered me an SRS-4170 system, can't wait!


----------



## dripf

Ordered me an SRS-3170 system, can't wait!


----------



## adidino

007 Mk2 arrived today, Woo Audio WES expected on Monday. My intent when I first entered into the hobby was to ease into it bit and enjoy the experience and variety of headphones and amps over time. Gotta blame the NY Meet last weekend for diving in hard.  Couldn't resist the Stax rig. Just sounded too good to avoid it any longer.


----------



## Audio Jester

adidino said:


> 007 Mk2 arrived today, Woo Audio WES expected on Monday. My intent when I first entered into the hobby was to ease into it bit and enjoy the experience and variety of headphones and amps over time. Gotta blame the NY Meet last weekend for diving in hard.  Couldn't resist the Stax rig. Just sounded too good to avoid it any longer.


 Tell me about it.... One trip to Japan and now I have a 009 and a BHSE on the way.


----------



## glorkaglickflic

I have the Stax SR 507 which has developed channel imbalance due to parasitic charges.  I store the phone on a bentwood stand under a Stax clear dust cover.  However, I have been guilty of leaving the phones on the desk uncovered during the day.  it is only at night that I cover the phones.  What is the best way to dust this phone?  In another thread, one user uses this:  http://www.amazon.com/Giottos-AA1900-Large-Rocket-Blaster/dp/B00017LSPI/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-7072879-7496700?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1186614550&sr=8-1
  
 However, I'm leery of using any excessive force.


----------



## n3rdling

Dust isn't going to cause your imbalance.  It's either the coating or a gap forming between the spacer and diaphragm or stator.


----------



## rx79ez08

You are better off returning it. There is no guarantee that you problem won't come back, even if you can fix it this time.
 Having said that, I found storing the headphones in a plastic bag with desiccant for a few months seem to have help cure the issue I have with my SR-X MK-III.


----------



## s1rrah

n3rdling said:


> Dust isn't going to cause your imbalance.  It's either the coating or a gap forming between the spacer and diaphragm or stator.


 
  
 Just as a thought on dust and dust covers ....
  
 Personally, I don't want to drop 30 bucks or so (mas o minos) on a "Stax" branded cover ... or a headphone stand for that matter.
  
 So as an alternative, when not in use, I simply slide my 404LE's and Koss 950's into gallon size, extra thick zip lock bags and lay them on my shelf ... 
  
 Any thoughts on this? Seems perfectly fine for to me ... but thought I'd ask. It's certainly not the most glamorous solution but saves me a bunch of money ...
  
 ??


----------



## n3rdling

Personally I don't really bother with the extra dust protection.  I think it's more important to keep them out of direct sunlight for long periods of time.  You can use whatever you want, but if you want to be extra picky use a ziploc bag lined with reflective tape (or something to block most of the light) and seal it with a silica gel bag inside.  Blocks dust, blocks light, and absorbs moisture all at once.


----------



## davidsh

Cosmic rays must be the explanation for 'stats unpredictable behaviour


----------



## s1rrah

n3rdling said:


> Personally I don't really bother with the extra dust protection.  I think it's more important to keep them out of direct sunlight for long periods of time.  You can use whatever you want, but if you want to be extra picky use a ziploc bag lined with reflective tape (or something to block most of the light) and seal it with a silica gel bag inside.  Blocks dust, blocks light, and absorbs moisture all at once.


 
  
 Sunlight isn't an issue as my room has no direct exposure to such. Dust is a slight issue as I do have to dust shelves and what not, at least once a month. I figure the less dust in the grills, the better ... so just gonna stick with the ziplocks. Thanks for the word ...


----------



## yawg

dripf said:


> No evidence to indicate the ED-1 wouldn't effectively compensate the 307.
> 
> Besides, thirty years have passed. Computers are now ubiquitous, and PEQ is free, lossless and offers complete control. It surprises me that so few people use it. Everyone seems to prefer buying and ebaying endlessly.


 

 I had the ED-1 for some years and it never really enhanced much - I used it with my LNS and a SRM-3 and SRM-T1S. With some recordings it was OK but I never got much listening pleasure out of it so I sold it ...


----------



## yawg

3x0 said:


> In linear terms, anyway. Nonlinear distortion is another beast but electrostatics seem to operate so well in those dimensions that it isn't as big of a deal as with dynamics.
> OK, thanks. I'm curious to test this in practice. I've played with some fair orchestral and opera recordings and would like the validate any presence of audible distortion before considering anything greater.
> 
> I'm not really a fan of tube designs so I tend to stay away from them (I feel the same way with power amplifier topologies). It seems the only suitable transistor-based "upgrade" would be a KGSSHV but I did not observe a confident improvement when I sampled it, even with demanding material.
> ...


 

 Excuse me but why don't you appreciate tube amps? I've been listening to transistor amps (only the best ) since the early 70s but discovered tubes about 10 years ago. When I was comparing my 100W class-A Stax SS monos with the custom-built 50W tube monos of a friend I was blown away, I had Martin Logan CLS IIz ELS then. If you use good tubes in a well-designed amp - especially in the driver section I only use excellent NOS tubes - you will get amazing results. The sound is more "organic" (using a food metaphor) instead of "fast". I never look back.
  
 But if you have speakers with low efficiency you have to be careful as tube amps, especially the SE type are not very powerful. I have low-efficiency panel speakers, 3.6 Maggies and use 200W tube monos for the mid/treble section and 300W transistor monos for the bass panels (bi-amping). That gives a quite impressive result and I have no plans to change this set.
  
 So don't be prejudiced. Try everything - you'll be amazed. Like I am right now, having accidentally destroyed my beloved Dynavector MC cartridges and dug up the old original MI cart that came with my Empire turntable. It's designed to play Quadro-LPs which means it has a very sharp needle with very low mass that can reproduce up to 50.000 Hz. That thang is almost 40 years old but blew away my expensive DVs - better dynamics, resolution and spatial sound ...
  
 Go figure.


----------



## glorkaglickflic

DOES THE STAX DRIVER UNIT HAVE TO BE PROTECTED FROM DUST?
 _____________________________________________________________
  
  
 I have the SRM 323 S and have never shielded it from dust.  I have had the unit for about 3 months.  I don't seem to see this issue mentioned in the forums so I thought I'd bring it up.  If there is dust, should I use a Dust Buster type of handvac to remove it or use a standard vac, or use one of those bulb-type of air blowers they use to clean camera sensors? Are there dust covers available for this unit?


----------



## mangler

I believe they were referring to the headphones, not the amps, so you should be ok


----------



## mangler

I've been paranoid about my stax ever since I bought a second hand 007 that was imbalanced (lucky I got to return it). So, this is probably overkill, but I got a dehumidifier cabinet to protect them:




It seems over the top, but I live in super humid Tampa where having ants crawl out if your light sockets and getting into your stuff is just a fact of life, so I figure it's worth the investment. Kind of looks cool too though


----------



## rx79ez08

glorkaglickflic said:


> DOES THE STAX DRIVER UNIT HAVE TO BE PROTECTED FROM DUST?
> _____________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> I have the SRM 323 S and have never shielded it from dust.  I have had the unit for about 3 months.  I don't seem to see this issue mentioned in the forums so I thought I'd bring it up.  If there is dust, should I use a Dust Buster type of handvac to remove it or use a standard vac, or use one of those bulb-type of air blowers they use to clean camera sensors? Are there dust covers available for this unit?


 

 Dust is not good for electronics in general, if you can aviod excessive dust it would be better for the driver.
 Just use cloth to cover it up when not in use, it should keep most dust off.


----------



## marlowe19

I am just about to purchase my first Stax system and then I have to see _this_: a guy from Tampa using a dehumidifier cabinet to protect his Stax gear. I live in New Orleans and I believe we have Tampa beat when it comes to relative humidity. So far, I have had no issues whatsoever with our notorious humidity compromising the sound of my dynamic headphones. But I'm beginning wonder:  Just what the heck am I now getting myself into with electrostatic cans? Should this really be a concern? Will the term "parasitic charge" become a part of my daily vocabulary?


----------



## glorkaglickflic

.


----------



## kothganesh

mangler said:


> I've been paranoid about my stax ever since I bought a second hand 007 that was imbalanced (lucky I got to return it). So, this is probably overkill, but I got a dehumidifier cabinet to protect them:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You guys have me worried. I live on the coast in South India where humidity typically hovers upwards of 80% and summer temps can go as high as 110F. 
This dehumidifier not only looks cool but seems to make a lot of sense for me. Gosh, all this for extra resolution and detail


----------



## rx79ez08

Humidity is probably not a major problem, Japan itself can get very humid during summer.
 If it get too wet during use, such if the hair of the user is wet, then there is a higher risk of shorting or arcing. Otherwise it should be a problem.


----------



## kothganesh

rx79ez08 said:


> Humidity is probably not a major problem, Japan itself can get very humid during summer.
> If it get too wet during use, such if the hair of the user is wet, then there is a higher risk of shorting or arcing. Otherwise it should be a problem.


 
 Clearly then, the answer may be to use it only in air-conditioned rooms. I've just invested in the 007 mk1 and the KGSShv and never once thought about these risks.


----------



## davidsh

My srm-t1 has a thick layer of dust, hasn't been opened in 20+ years


----------



## rx79ez08

Dust in electronics increases the risk of short circuit and arcing. It also reduces the heat dissipation ability of components, increasing the temperature of them, which shortent the life span of the system.
  
 Dust in driver of electrostatic headphones is reportedly the cause of distortion and the so called "squealing" sound.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Stax stand + dust cover for my SR-009, and back to its box sometimes. Nothing special for old cans (SR-5, SR-Lambda), except a stand.
 Some protection (tissue or whatever) on amps to avoid dust inside.
 Weather is pretty temperate in Paris 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ali


----------



## astrostar59

Yes, I agree, dust is an issue and can't be ignored.
  
 With my Stax SRM-717 I take the top off twice a year and blow it out, and wipe off the tops of the
 heat sinks.
  
 With my SR-007s I put them on a stand which sits inside a glass bell jar. I drilled small holes in
 the top for breathing (for winter and any mould issues. The position of the stand is away from direct
 sunlight, and away from any radiators (another potential problem).
  
 Stax use a thin plastic type of film for the speakers, so obviously this is fragile, can be damaged
 by dust ingress and excessive heat (both while not in use and while playing music!).
  
 So, I think as long as you store your phones when not on your head in a similar type of dust free
 environment, they will last for years. My preference if have a dust free enclosure that is not toally
 sealed to the environment.
  
 I am not so sure a sealed bag is a good idea myself, as it could
 promote mould and damp around the leather cups (perspiration and hair grease in the leather).
 A silica jell bag will help but for that to work effectively it requires a total seal on the bag.
  
 Here is my stand and glass dome. The stand is a simple Brainwave Perspex and aluminium stand glued
 to the Wooden display base. I then fashioned a cable exit to the base.


----------



## milosz

Using a little rubber-bulb type air squirter is likely to introduce MORE dust into the driver, not remove it.  And besides, you can't get at the driver anyway- it's inside a set of dust seals.  Lightly blowing some air into the earcup will do NOTHING to the driver.  It's sealed away in it's dust envelope.
  
 Stax drivers are sealed within a dust shield, kind of like a plastic bag around the driver.
  
 Besides, dust levels in a normal domestic environment are not terribly high and thanks to the dust seals dust doesn't really get inside the drivers.  I don't cover any of my headphones. They all continue to work just fine.  I don't think there is any more reason to worry about Stax headphones and dust than with any other gear.
  
 If you thought there was dust inside your Stax drivers, you'd have to tear open these dust seals, and then dust the drivers with DUST FREE dry gas (i.e., technical grade dry nitrogen) in a DUST FREE environment such as as an ISO Level 6 or better cleanroom to be assured of success. If you have the $1 million to build the cleanroom, then by all means proceed....
  
 Then you have to replace the dust seals, for which there is no known field procedure.
  
 While I have heard of people taking apart a Stax driver and repairing it at home successfully, I have also heard of many failures when trying this.  If the driver is already BAD, well there's nothing to risk.  But if you are trying to IMPROVE a working sub-par driver-  gee-  GOOD LUCK!
  
 Really high humidity and hot weather CAN negatively impact all kinds of transducers- not just Stax drivers.  When it comes to Stax drivers, high humidity MIGHT cause the diaphragm coating to break down, and it can also weaken various adhesives used in various places in the driver and the headphones.  Poorly coated diaphragms will lose efficiency, and things like channel imbalance and maybe even distorted sound could result.  Only fix is a new driver.  Some folks have re-coated the diaphragms, but a recoated driver will have different electrical and acoustic characteristics, won't be a Stax driver (though it might be close in performance if you are really lucky and highly skilled.)
  
 If there is dust inside the driver, the most common symptom is squealing, hissing or a kind of "crying" sound.  Koss electrostatic headphones sometimes come from the factory with a dust mote installed in a driver...and they will do some squealing and hissing, it's a fairly quiet sound but it is definitely audible.  I think maybe Koss doesn't have a cleanroom for electrostatic driver assembly.  I worked at Koss in 1976 and I don't remember a cleanroom, I remember them assembling ESP-9's out in the factory.  But maybe the drivers themselves were assembled elsewhere in some kind of cleanroom, I don't know.  What I DO know is that if you buy ESP-950's and one or both drivers squeal, you can send them back and Koss will replace them, Koss offers a lifetime warranty on their electrostatic ESP-950's.
  
 Channel imbalance is typically NOT caused by dust, but by something like element spacing being out of tolerance, or some problem with the diaphragm coating.  I do not know of anyone who has successfully fixed an imbalance-challenged Stax driver at home.  Problems with wiring, soldering and so on might also cause channel imbalance, although I would guess these causes to be rare.
  
 Dust in the amps?  Well, dust gets into electronics all the time.  Pots get scratchy, connectors get noisy, in tube gear, tube sockets grow microphonic  and so on.  Don't store electronics in a woodworking shop, stone quarry, coal mine, fabric production environment or other high-dust locations.  If your amplifier is kept in a normal home setting, it's probably a good idea to open the amp chassis up every *5~10* *years *and hit it with a little "canned air" dust removal product.


----------



## s1rrah

marlowe19 said:


> I am just about to purchase my first Stax system and then I have to see _this_: a guy from Tampa using a dehumidifier cabinet to protect his Stax gear. I live in New Orleans and I believe we have Tampa beat when it comes to relative humidity. So far, I have had no issues whatsoever with our notorious humidity compromising the sound of my dynamic headphones. But I'm beginning wonder:  Just what the heck am I now getting myself into with electrostatic cans? Should this really be a concern? Will the term "parasitic charge" become a part of my daily vocabulary?


 
  
 Man ... just get your rig set up and enjoy it. I live in Houston ... and it's wetter than a dog's mouth around here and on a yearly basis. I've never had any  issues with my Stax stuff.
  
 The humidifier is kind of a novel thing. Totally not necessary (not a bad thing, either if you want to get that OCD and  have the money) ... but it's ridiculous to think that it's necessary for such. 
  
 If your even slightly worried about humidity? When not in use, just keep your cans in a gallon size zip lock bag (fit's perfect) with a little silica packet inside. Personally, I put mine in ziplocks when not in use ... but don't worry about silica as we run the AC consistently enough through the day to keep things fairly dry indoors.
  
 LOL ... but don't sweat (if I may) the whole bloody humidifier bit ..


----------



## milosz

I'd be interested to hear from Stax owners in high-humidity places, to learn if any problems attributable to high humidity were ever actually seen.  I would guess that problems of this type are rare.
 ==================
  
 Likely the channel imbalance issue which seems to be something that plagues at least a few owners is due to something out-of-tolerance just a smidge - like stator / diaphragm spacing, diaphragm tension or coating density. The drivers have REALLY tight tolerances for all these things, if they're off a little, or change over time, you could end up with a little imbalance.
  
 If the imbalance is slight-  well that's what they make BALANCE controls for! ALL my Stax amps have separate left-  and right-  level controls, I imagine that it's not against International Law to use them to even out a channel imbalance (except in Iceland, perhaps.)
  
 By the way-  have you had your EARS CHECKED recently?  Audiophiles should have their hearing tested regularly, to see if they are damaging their hearing with too high an SPL, and just to see if your EARS have a channel imbalance!  (I know mine do!)


----------



## arnaud

I am not even sure humidity is that much of an issue. You have to see how humid it gets here in the summer, i don't know if it competes with florida but it reminds me of DC in the summer. Stax gear is at least designed to operate in Japan weather i would assume.

As for dust, i am not too worried either with the dust covers in front of the drivers. For safety though, I simply keep my phones in their original carrying case / box.


----------



## astrostar59

Good advice hear, thank you for this.
  
 I agree with all you say, BUT I live in South Spain, and literally every day I can wipe my hand over granite tables
 in the house and fell dust and very fine grit. Our climate is like California, so dust you can't see by the naked eye
 but that gets into a house even with all windows shut.
  
 So, I will carry on with my Glass Dome. I know it looks kinda odd, but it seems to work, keeping 98% of the
 airborne dust out. Plus it is quick to store and practical. You don't want to have to bung them in the Stax case
 every session, it takes too long and most will end up not storing at all.
  
 The Stax plastic cover thing is pretty horrid, and not so effective.
  
  
 My valve amps need a blow over and clean every 6 months at least. It depends where they are sat. My Monoblocks
 are sat on the floor in the lounge, so get more dust than the pre-amps which are on a heavy granite table.
 With valve amps like the BHSE it would be good policy to store them if out of use for long periods with the
 valves out and fit valve socket caps. In situ valves can corrode (metal to metal) and open sockets get full of dust.
  
 Another good tip for storing Stax gear, or any headphones, is they must be dry. The leather cups absorb oils
 and moisture, and can go mouldy in the same way a waxed leather jacket will if left in the back of your wardrobe.
  
 Maybe Stax changed from Aluminium carry case to wooden storage box on the SR-009s for this reason? Not sure.
 So place the phones in a sealed bag with silica, or in a box that is slightly breathable like the SR-009s box.
  
 The other thing to watch is placing the SR-007s in the ali case, is to rotate the speakers round so the flex entry faces
 inside the cutout foam cavity. I bought mine secondhand and the guy had packed them with the cables bend over the
 foam insert - not good.


----------



## mangler

I'm sure my dehumdifier box is WAY over the top, but I don't want to take any chances after coming across those 007s. It also serves several other purposes, like blocking sunlight, keeping dust and bugs out, and it's got a lock so my 2 toddlers can't get in. Besides holding my 007 and 507, my amp also fits in there, which is a bonus (it's tube so I can't leave it out around my kids either  ). Besides, it was "only" $200, which is less than most aftermarket cables, so maybe it's not too crazy


----------



## s1rrah

mangler said:


> I'm sure my dehumdifier box is WAY over the top, but I don't want to take any chances after coming across those 007s. It also serves several other purposes, like blocking sunlight, keeping dust and bugs out, and it's got a lock so my 2 toddlers can't get in. Besides holding my 007 and 507, my amp also fits in there, which is a bonus (it's tube so I can't leave it out around my kids either
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 More power to you, mate.
  
 **** man .. I have mere 404LE's and Koss 950's ... relatively inexpensive compared to the 007's.
  
 Had I spent 2500+ on a pair of headphones for chrissake? Shiza ... I'd probably buy a dehumidifier too ...
  
 That said .. I listen daily and far too much to keep an amp tucked away in such. I would drive me crazy to have to take everything out every day before listening ... 
  
 LOL


----------



## mangler

s1rrah said:


> That said .. I listen daily and far too much to keep an amp tucked away in such. I would drive me crazy to have to take everything out every day before listening ...
> 
> LOL




Haha, I do have to do it everyday and it does drive me crazy! But its something Ive just had to get used to doing


----------



## rx79ez08

All the talk of Stax headphones' fragility aside. There are still a lot of older Stax headphones kicking around (Lambda, LP, LS, LNS, etc), and most of them are 20 - 30 years old. I think you treat them right these headphones can last for a long time.


----------



## takato14

rx79ez08 said:


> All the talk of Stax headphones' fragility aside. There are still a lot of older Stax headphones kicking around (Lambda, LP, LS, LNS, etc), and most of them are 20 - 30 years old. I think you treat them right these headphones can last for a long time.


 
 The SR-X MKIII I have works fine, too.
  
 You just have to be gentle with any high end headphone, really, regardless of what drive technology it uses. Take good care of your things and they'll last forever.


----------



## jackskelly

s1rrah said:


> Man ... just get your rig set up and enjoy it. I live in Houston ... and it's wetter than a dog's mouth around here and on a yearly basis. I've never had any  issues with my Stax stuff.
> 
> The humidifier is kind of a novel thing. Totally not necessary (not a bad thing, either if you want to get that OCD and  have the money) ... but it's ridiculous to think that it's necessary for such.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I live in Houston too. I haven't experienced a problem yet with my Stax headphones, and I've had them for almost a year. Having been to Japan - in August of last year, the weather was quite similar to Houston's in August - I can understand how they've been crafted to withstand high humidity and high heat environments (at least the SR-009).


----------



## bearFNF

Wow lots of us from Houston on here, or at least that have lived there.  My LNB spent the first ten years of their lives (198x to 199x) in Houston, then in Indiana, and now in Minnesota, never worried about dust or humidity (except one of my ex's stepped on them and cracked one of the gimbals, it still works fine, though).  They also spent some time in storage (cardboard box) with a bunch of other stuff and no ill affects.  Still functioning fine...no need for a 'chamber of solitude' for them...other than for keeping your kids and pets away I guess.


----------



## negura

A quick note, just in case of any interest back here, related to the KGSSHV front: http://www.head-fi.org/t/582131/is-anyone-building-the-kgsshv/360#post_10455386


----------



## project86

negura said:


> A quick note, just in case of any interest back here, related to the KGSSHV front: http://www.head-fi.org/t/582131/is-anyone-building-the-kgsshv/360#post_10455386


 
  
  
 Nice! Geoff is just finishing mine at the moment, using mostly the same specs as yours (14mA FTW!). My 007 is drooling, waiting for it to arrive. I'm also planning on grabbing the SR-003mk2 and getting some custom molded tips for them because..... why not? I recall Spritzer or someone mentioning running the baby Stax off a BHSE with very good results.


----------



## DairyProduce

So Geoff = headinclouds?


----------



## kothganesh

dairyproduce said:


> So Geoff = headinclouds?


Yessir....


----------



## kothganesh

negura said:


> A quick note, just in case of any interest back here, related to the KGSSHV front: http://www.head-fi.org/t/582131/is-anyone-building-the-kgsshv/360#post_10455386



Wish you had posted this earlier . I bought my KGSSHV from Geoff two weeks ago. I could have asked him for the upgrades. Oh well.


----------



## negura

project86 said:


> Nice! Geoff is just finishing mine at the moment, using mostly the same specs as yours (14mA FTW!). My 007 is drooling, waiting for it to arrive. I'm also planning on grabbing the SR-003mk2 and getting some custom molded tips for them because..... why not? I recall Spritzer or someone mentioning running the baby Stax off a BHSE with very good results.


 
  
 I think you'll be very pleased. Given that reportedly a 9-10mA KGSSHV is close to the BHSE already, one would be wondering whether the gap between the (14mA ) KGSSHV and BHSE could have closed.


----------



## Crashem

negura said:


> I think you'll be very pleased. Given that reportedly a 9-10mA KGSSHV is close to the BHSE already, one would be wondering whether the gap between the (14mA ) KGSSHV and BHSE could have closed.




Never really compared them that way given that one is tube vs SS. I would say more prefer bhse from what I can see, but not close to universal. But I would never say that bhse is better than kgsshv from what I can see. However, I'll have both soon enough and be able to do long term impression and see how I personally feel.

Your modded kgsshv sounds amazing. Be really interested in having you do test with both your modded and the two main versions of kgsshv (off and on board) side by side.


----------



## negura

crashem said:


> Never really compared them that way given that one is tube vs SS. I would say more prefer bhse from what I can see, but not close to universal. But I would never say that bhse is better than kgsshv from what I can see. However, I'll have both soon enough and be able to do long term impression and see how I personally feel.
> 
> Your modded kgsshv sounds amazing. Be really interested in having you do test with both your modded and the two main versions of kgsshv (off and on board) side by side.


 
  
 My base of comparison before/after is I having a nice class A speaker amplifier and a Woo Wee. It's not nearly the same class as the KGSSHV, but it's not bad either. More importantly it's steady base for comparison. However Geoff (the builder) has very likely compared all the KGSSHV flavors side by side directly.
 It's not me but punters around these parts suggesting the KGSSHV 9-10mA was already very close to the BHSE in SQ when the line is drawn. However as we also know, close could even be described as leagues away in audiophile land depending who's doing the count. 
  
 Regarding tube/SS sound this is always interesting to me. I've heard and owned tube amplifiers that are quite close to (my) standard definition of what is good "solid state" sound as well as solid states with good elements of "tubey" sound. My preference is for a clean, detailed, transparent reproduction, with holographic presentation and fast transients. And no glaring errors of comission (spikey/grainy treble, underwhelming bass etc). Oh look I just described how the SR-009 sounds.


----------



## kothganesh

crashem said:


> Never really compared them that way given that one is tube vs SS. I would say more prefer bhse from what I can see, but not close to universal. But I would never say that bhse is better than kgsshv from what I can see. However, I'll have both soon enough and be able to do long term impression and see how I personally feel.
> 
> Your modded kgsshv sounds amazing. Be really interested in having you do test with both your modded and the two main versions of kgsshv (off and on board) side by side.



As a noob that just got a KGSSHV from Geoff, can you guys explain the pros/cons of onboard vs off board please? I have the onboard version. Thanks.


----------



## 3X0

yawg said:


> Excuse me but why don't you appreciate tube amps? I've been listening to transistor amps (only the best ) since the early 70s but discovered tubes about 10 years ago. When I was comparing my 100W class-A Stax SS monos with the custom-built 50W tube monos of a friend I was blown away, I had Martin Logan CLS IIz ELS then. If you use good tubes in a well-designed amp - especially in the driver section I only use excellent NOS tubes - you will get amazing results. The sound is more "organic" (using a food metaphor) instead of "fast". I never look back.
> 
> But if you have speakers with low efficiency you have to be careful as tube amps, especially the SE type are not very powerful. I have low-efficiency panel speakers, 3.6 Maggies and use 200W tube monos for the mid/treble section and 300W transistor monos for the bass panels (bi-amping). That gives a quite impressive result and I have no plans to change this set.
> 
> ...


 
 I have tried all kinds of tube and solid state designs in the speaker realm. In a level-matched ceteris paribus environment I was unable to distinguish between most solid state equipment. The effects of valve equipment were in comparison random, with a few designs sounding indistinguishable from solid state counterparts and others being a bit unpredictable. Like I stated earlier, I prefer a predictable (boring?) upstream so that I know colorations are products of my transducers.
  
 I do respect the converse approach of mixing-and-matching different pieces of non-reference-sounding (e.g. "hi-fi") upstream equipment to strike upon something that sounds euphonic, but that's not for me.
  
 I'll echo dude_500's sentiment that the SR-009 are intolerably bright with the KGSSHV (haven't spent enough time with them on the BHSE, but that's where his opinion is derived). What makes them so bright out of those KG designs but docile (by comparison) out of some more budget Stax amps?


----------



## arnaud

3x0 said:


> I'll echo dude_500's sentiment that the SR-009 are intolerably bright with the KGSSHV (haven't spent enough time with them on the BHSE, but that's where his opinion is derived). What makes them so bright out of those KG designs but docile (by comparison) out of some more budget Stax amps?




I recall reading that one of the shortcomings of stax amps compared to amps like bhse is limited drive to provide sufficient current all the way to 20kHz (characterised as slew rate). The bias current discussed earlier and voltage swing defines this (but not all agree on what is an acceptable minimum slew rate for actual music).

So, basically, all commercial stax amps barely cut the mustard for driving stax phones but it actually may be beneficial for some users, in particular hf roll off that could make the 009 more palletable for those that find the 009 a bit too revealing of source and / or recording issues or simply are more comfortable with a bit more laid back sound because of the music and/or loudness level they usually listen at.

Edit: more discussion about SR, its relevance or lack thereof...
Questions: http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/18570_30#post_8459918
Answers: http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/18570_30#post_8459947
Alternative viewpoint: http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/18600_30#post_8466826


----------



## yawg

3x0 said:


> I have tried all kinds of tube and solid state designs in the speaker realm. In a level-matched ceteris paribus environment I was unable to distinguish between most solid state equipment. The effects of valve equipment were in comparison random, with a few designs sounding indistinguishable from solid state counterparts and others being a bit unpredictable. Like I stated earlier, I prefer a predictable (boring?) upstream so that I know colorations are products of my transducers.
> 
> I do respect the converse approach of mixing-and-matching different pieces of non-reference-sounding (e.g. "hi-fi") upstream equipment to strike upon something that sounds euphonic, but that's not for me.
> 
> I'll echo dude_500's sentiment that the SR-009 are intolerably bright with the KGSSHV (haven't spent enough time with them on the BHSE, but that's where his opinion is derived). What makes them so bright out of those KG designs but docile (by comparison) out of some more budget Stax amps?


 

 Did you evaluate the amps you tried with speakers using "conventional" speaker designs (dynamic) or ELS, mangnetostatic, horns? Especially using Martin Logan full-range electrostatics I heard that every amp I tried, SS or tubes, had its own special sound signature.
  
 BTW I'm not a tube "fanatic". My preamp is a transistor and my tube monoblocs don't have a "tubey" sound.


----------



## Crashem

kothganesh said:


> As a noob that just got a KGSSHV from Geoff, can you guys explain the pros/cons of onboard vs off board please? I have the onboard version. Thanks.


 
  
 First off, it has been a while (since my last college EE class) that I really studied circuit design so forgive me if I get any facts wrong.
  
 On board vs off board is referring to specifically where the heat sinks are located.  In terms of the KGSSHV, I believe that they use on/off board really just to name the two main designs of the KGSSHV.  You could easily just name them Bill and Ralph.  But a more specific and helpful name would be the 450V 1968 Sanyo on board vs 500v IXYS off board
  
 Here is a link to KG's design page with detailed design specs:
  
 http://tee8tee4388.blogspot.com/2013/07/kgsshv-amplifier.html
  
 The obvious difference is the voltage as on board is 450V and off board is 500V.  Typically, my first inclination is that the higher voltage design would be better as electrostats love their high SLEW rate.  But from my research, my understanding is that the on board 450V design is actually preferred given the use of the Sanyo parts.
  
 This goes to show you with DYI, all the normal factors us consumers use to make decisions don't necessarily apply.  Obtainable parts make a huge difference that has to be taken into account on which design to go with.  If you are worried you picked the wrong build, I would guess most would say you got the right build as you likely have Sanyo parts.


----------



## RiStaR

You can use either parts and build for offboard or onboard builds.. the only thing is the Sanyo can only take up to 450V supplies. In context of the KGSSHV, offboard just means the transistors on the amp boards have heat dissipating through the larger offboard heatsinks, while with the onboard builds the amp transistors are dissipating heat through smaller 2.5inch heatsinks.
  
 Higher heat dissipation allows for you to bump up the current substantially without having the transistors overheat/die/shorten its life.
  
 Quote:


crashem said:


> First off, it has been a while (since my last college EE class) that I really studied circuit design so forgive me if I get any facts wrong.
> 
> On board vs off board is referring to specifically where the heat sinks are located.  In terms of the KGSSHV, I believe that they use on/off board really just to name the two main designs of the KGSSHV.  You could easily just name them Bill and Ralph.  But a more specific and helpful name would be the 450V 1968 Sanyo on board vs 500v IXYS off board
> 
> ...


----------



## Crashem

yawg said:


> Did you evaluate the amps you tried with speakers using "conventional" speaker designs (dynamic) or ELS, mangnetostatic, horns? Especially using Martin Logan full-range electrostatics I heard that every amp I tried, SS or tubes, had its own special sound signature.
> 
> BTW I'm not a tube "fanatic". My preamp is a transistor and my tube monoblocs don't have a "tubey" sound.


 

 I have had and do have multiple ML speakers.  The problem is these amps are not designed to drive speakers.  Typically you need way more power except for high efficiency speakers like horns.  Electrostatic head amps would need significant changes to drive any non electrostatic speaker and I don't know of any high efficiency electrostatic speaker as they are basically the opposite of efficient..  Even though you can reduce the distance between plate and membrane to increase efficiency, that is one big membrane to drive.


----------



## Crashem

ristar said:


> You can use either parts and build for offboard or onboard builds.. the only thing is the Sanyo can only take up to 450V supplies. In context of the KGSSHV, offboard just means the transistors on the amp boards have heat dissipating through the larger offboard heatsinks, while with the onboard builds the amp transistors are dissipating heat through smaller 2.5inch heatsinks.
> 
> Higher heat dissipation allows for you to bump up the current substantially without having the transistors overheat/die/shorten its life.


 
  
 Gotcha.  I guess I muddled my main point which was the on/off board is really just naming convention referring to basic two KGSSHV designs.  That the "typical" builds of each of these designs look like as I described.


----------



## RiStaR

crashem said:


> Gotcha.  I guess I muddled my main point which was the on/off board is really just naming convention referring to basic two KGSSHV designs.  That the "typical" builds of each of these designs look like as I described.


 
  
 I agree... you described them really well but just thought I made that distinction clearer in the context of the question "offboard vs onboard" that's all 
  
 There are also newer variants of the KGSSHV design - KG and Spritzer have been continually working on this to keep sourcing of parts easy and reducing footprint. The Stax community should be thankful to have such dedicated folks that allow for more of us to experience well-amped headphones.


----------



## Crashem

ristar said:


> I agree... you described them really well but just thought I made that distinction clearer in the context of the question "offboard vs onboard" that's all
> 
> There are also newer variants of the KGSSHV design - KG and Spritzer have been continually working on this to keep sourcing of parts easy and reducing footprint. The Stax community should be thankful to have such dedicated folks that allow for more of us to experience well-amped headphones.


 
  
 I agree with everything you said including your clearer explanation on differences, but especially thanks to KG and Spritz.


----------



## mechgamer123

In case anyone wanted a case for their Lambdas, I was able to barely fit my SR-202s inside a Pelican 1200 case. I had to cut the very ends of the foam off on the side with the cups, but nonetheless they fit with a big of gentle pushing. 

 It may have been better to get a case with a little bit extra breathing room, but the larger ones are much more expensive than this 1200.


----------



## kothganesh

RiStar, Crashem:
  
 Thanks a lot for the details. When I initially posted, I was under the impression that it was a simple matter of upgrading to the 14mA builds of the KGSShv. Geoff quickly disabused me of that notion. Boy this upgraditis is the worst feeling at times !


----------



## milosz

rx79ez08 said:


> All the talk of Stax headphones' fragility aside. There are still a lot of older Stax headphones kicking around (Lambda, LP, LS, LNS, etc), and most of them are 20 - 30 years old. I think you treat them right these headphones can last for a long time.


 
 My Lambda Signatures appear to work perfectly.  I have replaced the earpads.


----------



## zolkis

Ear pad issues.
  
 Has anyone tried the SR-009 ear pads with the 007's? AFAIK the EP-009 are slightly (~3 mm?) larger in diameter (both inside and outside), but are about the same height.
 Based on images I've found I couldn't figure out whether are they similar construction, i.e. can the EP-009 be mounted to the 007?
  
 Then, some of you seem to be using the black EP-007 with also the 007 Mk1. Is there any sound difference between the brown and black pads? Again, as much as I could learn from these forums, the black pads are somewhat higher and a bit stiffer (more stuffing?).
  
 I know this will sound intrusive, and there will be people scratching their heads, but I still share my 007 ear pad mod experiences. After months of experimenting with the old brown ear pads, the best sound I could get from the 007 Mk1 is this:
 - removed the cloth grill and the spring, and mounted the ear pads directly on the frame. Looks better, sounds more open and more clear. Still a bit "shut in" compared to reference (HD800, SR-507). So far this is reversible.
 - trimmed the inner foam (soft upper part) about 4 mm in the front and 2-3 mm in the back
 - cut ~2mm from the inner circumference of the inner foam pads, making the opening larger.
 That's it. Beware, these are destructive mods, but I thought it was worth trying.
 Of course all this happened very slowly, with a lot of testing, mostly with all kinds of instruments.
 - fine tuning was done by inserting small blobs (~5-6 mm diameter) of wool under the pads from the inside. The goal was to "dial back" the openness in favor of bass impact until the point of optimum. Ended up using one blob under the thick part of the pad spread over ~2-3 cm circumferal length. Yes, the difference is absolutely hearable, and also where you put the blobs . That's the amazing thing with the 007.
  
 These mods basically imitate the SR Omega ear pad design, AFAIK. Believe me, I tried to keep the springs with all might, and tested them with every mod I have made. To my ears, it always sounded better without them. Also, I kept my new pair of brown ear pads unmodified, and tested the mods against them every time.
 After all was done, I have put the trimmed foam into the new skin.
  
 The effects:
 - the headphone still looks the same, but the pads are softer of course
 - sound stage wider and deeper, but not taller
 - much, much, much more open and clear sound; actually now it sounds more open than the SR-507 and more natural, too
 - bass feels having the same depth and impact, but the more open midrange balances the sound; actually the bass feels more freely extended and relaxed than with the more "shut-in" sound before the mods
 - piano, wind instruments, big orchestra, percussions sound like real, with a slightly warm euphony (it's still a 007)
 - I don't think I could find any fault with the sound now. I just enjoy the music. When I put them on in the morning, it's like fresh breeze to my ears.
 - I am less eager to get a 009.
  
 The cons:
 - irreversible mod, you may lose the price of an ear pad
 - have to keep the headphones in the box when not used (it used to be there anyway)
 - your ears may touch the metal; mine do not, but this may not hold true with many, if not most people.
  
 Now the 009 ear pads inner diameter is a bit larger, and they are also the same bit higher than my current setting, so it might work equally well as my modded 007 ear pads, but allowing bigger distance from ears (good for most), and bigger volume - not necessarily a bad thing for sound stage either. If that assumption holds, I am almost certain the 007 Mk1 would be preferable to many over the 009. Unfortunately the EP-009 seem to be basically unobtainable, except singular opportunities asking (not necessarily selling at) exorbitant prices. Too high price for uncertainty at the moment, when my pads work for me, but there could be people out there who have already tried this.


----------



## tonereef

Interconnects for the SR009
  
 There doesn't seem to be much discussion of interconnects at head-fi, but a few months ago I realized that the ICs I was using with my DIY triode amp (unbalanced inputs) were the weak link in my system so I started reading reviews and discussion forums to see what people were saying. Since then I've listened to quite a few ICs, but the ones I'm keeping are the top of the line HIgh Fidelity Cables CT1-UR (Ultimate Reference). For those who don't know, the High Fidelity cables work on a different principle that owner Rick Schultz calls magnetic conduction. He's patented it and their website describes it so I won't repeat that here. For a couple of months I've owned the CT1-U, their 2nd best cable, but based on a review, word of mouth and Rick's own recommendation I decided to trade up to the UR. I'm not one to rave, but yesterday I received them, and I can say with confidence that these are by far the best interconnects I've heard, and that their resolution has transformed my system. And they're not broken in yet, though thoroughly cable cooked. (According to Rick, after 100 hours in your system they will be pretty well broken in.)
  
 You can read that review of the UR here:
 http://dagogo.com/high-fidelity-cables-ct-1ur-ultimate-reference-speaker-and-interconnect-cables-review
  
 There's also a High Fidelity Cables thread at Audiogon.
  
 Now, there may be better ICs out there, but there are no comparative reviews to go on, and expensive as they are the UR are far less expensive than for example the new Tara Labs Air Evolution.
  
 If you are happy with the 009 sound you're getting - and I mainly mean if you're enjoying their tonal balance and resolution with your amp, and you're got a high quality source and good power conditioning - then you really should give the UR a try.
  
 Here are the other ICs I've listened to in my system, roughly in descending order of transparency, realism and overall satisfaction:
  
 HF CT1-U - a very nice sounding IC, but lacking resolution, body and impact compared to the UR (note: the Us are not yet fully broken in either - but the differences between the U and the UR are not at all subtle).
  
 Shunyata Anaconda - nice, but not as resolving or as natural-sounding in the highs as the U in my system. Also bettered by low capacitance DIY silver/cotton ICs made by a friend.
  
 HF CT1-E - did not hear these at the same time as the Anaconda so cannot make a direct comparison. However the Es sounded significantly bass shy - I'm told that the bass improves with more break-in (up to 200 hours?). With that one possible caveat, they might be a good choice in a "budget" 009 system - there is a family resemblance to the Us, just not as much of everything. (Did not have them at the same time for a direct comparison.)
  
 Synergistic Research Tungsten, Audience AU24-se, Dave's Cables D3, Grover Huffman ZX+ - not resolving enough to be worth considering with the 009, IMO.
  
 Summary judgement: if you listen to a lot of classical, jazz or other mainly acoustic music, the 009/UR synergy can be amazing. The UR's ability to uncongeal info buried in less-than-good older recordings (e.g. CDs recorded with early digital technology, or older analogue transfers, even mono) is unparalleled by other cables I've heard. For example, on David Zinman's beautiful Dvorak Legends CD (Nonesuch, recorded in 1983 on Sony gear), orchestral detail that even with the Us sounded dulled down and blended in now stands out in bold but believable relief - suddenly there's space around everything, a delicacy of articulation in the winds that wasn't there before, and better string sound. The URs sound great with rock too - bass is full, textured and dynamic. I'm pretty sure these cables will make any kind of music you throw at them more vivid, involving and fun, assuming the rest of your system is up to it.


----------



## rgs9200m

Cardas Golden Cross IC is very good with them.


----------



## 3X0

I'm a big fan of Monoprice ICs. Their performance stands up to some of the very best I've heard, regardless of price.


----------



## Crashem

tonereef said:


> Interconnects for the SR009
> 
> There doesn't seem to be much discussion of interconnects at head-fi, but a few months ago I realized that the ICs I was using with my DIY triode amp (unbalanced inputs) were the weak link in my system so I started reading reviews and discussion forums to see what people were saying. Since then I've listened to quite a few ICs, but the ones I'm keeping are the top of the line HIgh Fidelity Cables CT1-UR (Ultimate Reference). For those who don't know, the High Fidelity cables work on a different principle that owner Rick Schultz calls magnetic conduction. He's patented it and their website describes it so I won't repeat that here. For a couple of months I've owned the CT1-U, their 2nd best cable, but based on a review, word of mouth and Rick's own recommendation I decided to trade up to the UR. I'm not one to rave, but yesterday I received them, and I can say with confidence that these are by far the best interconnects I've heard, and that their resolution has transformed my system. And they're not broken in yet, though thoroughly cable cooked. (According to Rick, after 100 hours in your system they will be pretty well broken in.)
> 
> ...


 
  
 MIT for ME


----------



## bearFNF

Blue jeans and Decware here


----------



## tgx78

I had high fidelity CT-1U interconnects before and they were great on my speaker system. I also enjoy hidiamond xlr3 balanced interconnects as well. Hidiamond has little more density in mids so i use them for vocals. Anything else i play with high fidelity (ct-1e for now)

Planning to get CT-1UR sometime this year.


----------



## georgep

In case any Toronto/GTA folk were interested, I saw this KGSS for sale on CAM: http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649116015-kgss_kevin_gilmore_solid_state_electrostatic_amplifier/.


----------



## mangler

I like Mogami IC  excellent and with a lifetime warranty


----------



## adidino

mangler said:


> I like Mogami IC
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1 on Mogami. Use them with my McIntosh gear and my WES. Good for the pro's, good enough for me.


----------



## TheAttorney

zolkis said:


> Ear pad issues.
> 
> After months of experimenting with the old brown ear pads, the best sound I could get from the 007 Mk1 is...


 
 This must be the most dedicated and thorough 007 ear pad tweaking of all time. Ever!
 I doubt if even sprizter has gone this far on pad modification (or has he?...).
  
  I thought 007 Mk2 pads could be brown as well as black. I certainly received a new brown pair a few months ago. They did seem very slightly deeper than my old Mk1s, but also very soft. Although hardly conclusive, the Mk2 black pads (and 009 pads) I came across at a meet seemed to be noticeably stiffer than either of my brown ones - as if the leather was a bit tougher.
  
 Regarding removal of the pad grill - it's not just house dust you need to worry about when storing. How can I put this... all human heads shed skin dust and dandruff. So I won't be taking my grills off no matter how good the sound improvement.
  
 Now that I've been experimenting more carefully with pad and spring rotation, it's surprising how much difference a few degrees can make (pad more obvious than spring). Very broadly, I can move from "wide and open" to "dark and shut in". The complication is that the shut in effect can also improve the solidity of the central image, which can be very pleasing on, say, female vocals. Then there's the bass impact factor. At one point, I thought I had all planets in alignment with the best overall balance, but I can't remember now what that perfect combination was 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## zolkis

theattorney said:


> This must be the most dedicated and thorough 007 ear pad tweaking of all time. Ever!
> I doubt if even sprizter has gone this far on pad modification (or has he?...).


 
  
 Thanks, but this was just desperate tweaking to make them sound more open. Spritzer, AFAIK, prefers the Mk2 black earpads both for sonics (better bass) and comfort. He advised me against removing the springs, since they ensure the right distance and condition of the earpads.
 However, after a lot of testing I am happily living without them.
  


> I thought 007 Mk2 pads could be brown as well as black. I certainly received a new brown pair a few months ago. They did seem very slightly deeper than my old Mk1s, but also very soft. Although hardly conclusive, the Mk2 black pads (and 009 pads) I came across at a meet seemed to be noticeably stiffer than either of my brown ones - as if the leather was a bit tougher.


 
  
 I didn't know there was brown Mk2, thanks... perhaps mine is also Mk2 and that is the reason it sounds better with trimmed height.
 At some point I will definitely try the 009 pads (unmodified should sound good), but at the moment I am in new love with the 007 and current pads.
  


> Regarding removal of the pad grill - it's not just house dust you need to worry about when storing. How can I put this... all human heads shed skin dust and dandruff. So I won't be taking my grills off no matter how good the sound improvement.


 
  
 Now that is a valid and good point, thanks! During these months I haven't notice any issues with the cleanness of the drivers, but will definitely take out the microscope tonight . I promise no pictures lol .
  


> Now that I've been experimenting more carefully with pad and spring rotation, it's surprising how much difference a few degrees can make (pad more obvious than spring). Very broadly, I can move from "wide and open" to "dark and shut in". The complication is that the shut in effect can also improve the solidity of the central image, which can be very pleasing on, say, female vocals. Then there's the bass impact factor. At one point, I thought I had all planets in alignment with the best overall balance, but I can't remember now what that perfect combination was
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome to the club . So the shut in is when the spring radius is pointing forward, and open is when it points downwards or backwards?
 Now also try taking the spring out, I am curious of your opinion. The grill is of less effect than the spring, and the foam height, so I might end up putting them back as well.


----------



## JMcMasterJ

I've swapped between MK1 and MK2 pads a couple times on my 007mk1s. I prefer the comfort of the latter, but seem to prefer the sound from the former. I'm guessing I'm just able to get a better seal with them. It's such a pain in the ass swapping pads though that I gave up experimenting.


----------



## davidsh

Taped some holes and removed a speck of dust on my borked out LS driver.. Still, imbalance.. There is the balance control, just not sure I want to own a headphone with imbalance, really. The process went fairly easy, I just don't think the left driver is recoverable by me at least. It sounds as good as ever, though, and there is no visible dust in the driver now.


----------



## TheAttorney

> Originally Posted by *zolkis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Welcome to the club . So the shut in is when the spring radius is pointing forward, and open is when it points downwards or backwards?
> Now also try taking the spring out, I am curious of your opinion. The grill is of less effect than the spring, and the foam height, so I might end up putting them back as well.


 
  
 With the pad's seam starting around 2pm, rotating the seam up towards 1pm gives me a more shut in sound with fuller bass. Rotating downwards towards 3pm gives a wider sound stage and lighter more open sound (more 009 I guess). It's not night-and-day and there isn't a right or wrong for me. I'm happy with dark and I quite like some extra weight to the bass. But more recently, now that my brightness allergy is cured, I like the openness even more, and there was a particular point of planetary alignment when the bass had great, tight "slam", which was really good too.
  
 I've tried the spring between 2pm (just below the seam) and 5pm. This is harder to pin down, to the point where I haven't yet discounted  imagination. But recently I've fixed the pads with a bit of masking tape, so now I'll have less variables to play with. If only Stax had designed in a single-click lock/unlock mechanism to each of the two rotating discs - I would have paid a lot extra for that best-of-both-worlds feature.   
  
 I won't be taking the spring out altogether. Putting the pads back on is such a fiddly procedure, it's just too much trouble for me to find out.


----------



## davidsh

The LS just have that ethereal 'stat quality, which the 307 doesn't quite posess to the same degree. The 307 is much more of a modern aggressive signature with tactile bass and a generally forward sound. LS seems more clean, neutral, coherent and effortless, though slightly edgy.


----------



## zolkis

theattorney said:


> I won't be taking the spring out altogether. Putting the pads back on is such a fiddly procedure, it's just too much trouble for me to find out.


 
  
 I can understand that . Assembling the pad directly on the frame, without a grill, is very easy, it takes ~10 seconds (helped from inside). If the grill is in place, it's the same fiddly procedure as when the spings are also inside the pad, i.e. a 1-2 minutes per side. I think it's worth trying at least once .
  
 When I tested the pads with different fillings, I have just placed them against the frame and put on my head. It did create the same seal, and it made much easier comparing the modded vs original pads.


----------



## zolkis

theattorney said:


> Regarding removal of the pad grill - it's not just house dust you need to worry about when storing. How can I put this... all human heads shed skin dust and dandruff. So I won't be taking my grills off no matter how good the sound improvement.


 
  
 I have checked the drivers, they are pretty clean. I wonder if it's a major factor, after all the SR5 and similar early phones survived 30+ years without a grill and any problems.
  
 However, I have tested now with the current pads putting back the grills, but they veiled the sound so much, and narrowed the sound stage so much that there is no way I am putting them back . Perhaps I could experience with different materials, if I get the time. Choices, choices... are hard . I am sure Stax has put many hours into testing various grill and pad designs, and the result is what they wanted - however, my 007 sounds so much better now to my ears, and not only because of the tinkerer's effect.


----------



## tev

davidsh said:


> The LS just have that ethereal 'stat quality, which the 307 doesn't quite posess to the same degree. The 307 is much more of a modern aggressive signature with tactile bass and a generally forward sound. LS seems more clean, neutral, coherent and effortless, though slightly edgy.


 
 Agreed. The Lamda Signatures have the most "stat-like" sound of any Stax headphone. Sort of like the original Quad ESLs. Even more so than the 007mk1s or 009s. They don't have a big wow factor at first, but once your ears adjust to their lighter presentation they are unmatched in their transparency and vividness.They were my first Stax headphones and I expected all stats to have this unique sound, but most don't.


----------



## HPiper

I am considering getting a Stax rig, and while I don't have SR-009 money I would like to get something pretty good. I have heard that the SR407 sounds almost identical to the SR507, true?? I have been told that the tube amp, SRM006ts is the best value amp, again would most of you experienced Stax users agree? I wouldn't want to spend more than that but was wondering if it is better than, say the SRM323S?


----------



## rx79ez08

hpiper said:


> I am considering getting a Stax rig, and while I don't have SR-009 money I would like to get something pretty good. I have heard that the SR407 sounds almost identical to the SR507, true?? I have been told that the tube amp, SRM006ts is the best value amp, again would most of you experienced Stax users agree? I wouldn't want to spend more than that but was wondering if it is better than, say the SRM323S?


 

 Do you want to buy new items? Otherwise a good condition SRM-1-MKII and something like a Lambda Pro is worth considering.


----------



## Crashem

Just got my spritzer kgsshv and fired up my sr009 for the first time. Pretty awesome right off the bat. Need to do some tuning for the dac before I do a serious listen. But right off the bat I see why people say the sound is so effortless. More comments when I do full listen.


----------



## Crashem

A few photos:




Sorry iPads stinky for photos. Would love to use my new A7 but too busy to break it out.


----------



## davidsh

tev said:


> davidsh said:
> 
> 
> > The LS just have that ethereal 'stat quality, which the 307 doesn't quite posess to the same degree. The 307 is much more of a modern aggressive signature with tactile bass and a generally forward sound. LS seems more clean, neutral, coherent and effortless, though slightly edgy.
> ...



LS was my first stat too. IME the original lambda and normal bias Sigma carry the same traits in regards to being 'stat like', though not as much, but still more than 307, which frankly, almost doesn't sound like a stat to me.


----------



## arnaud

crashem said:


> Would love to use my new A7 but too busy to break it out.




You should take the time to open the A7 box, it should be at least just as much of a positive surprise! I totally dig mine


----------



## cat6man

crashem said:


> Just got my spritzer kgsshv and fired up my sr009 for the first time. Pretty awesome right off the bat. Need to do some tuning for the dac before I do a serious listen. But right off the bat I see why people say the sound is so effortless. More comments when I do full listen.


 
  
 congratulations!
  
 can you elaborate on 'some tuning for the dac' please?


----------



## Mr.Sneis

hpiper said:


> I am considering getting a Stax rig, and while I don't have SR-009 money I would like to get something pretty good. I have heard that the SR407 sounds almost identical to the SR507, true?? I have been told that the tube amp, SRM006ts is the best value amp, again would most of you experienced Stax users agree? I wouldn't want to spend more than that but was wondering if it is better than, say the SRM323S?


 
  
 The 407 sounds great, I liked them with the tubed 007tii (006t has a little less output voltage) quite a bit but had to get the volume knob to around 1-2 o clock mark for my listening levels.  Some say the 507 pads can be added to the 407 to sound like a 507; I did it myself and actually found I could have lived with the 407 stock - the change was only subtle but the comfort much better.  The look of the 507 is growing on me though, superficial as it may be.
  
 The 323s is probably a better value but will bring out the worst of the 407 (slight brightness - to me not horrible as some may think) versus the tube amp helped to tame it.


----------



## Crashem

cat6man said:


> congratulations!
> 
> can you elaborate on 'some tuning for the dac' please?


 
  
 Actually makes it seem more complicated than it is.  I basically play with cables, settings on the dac.  Sorry no black magic.  I wish I had some magic ritual to lock in the sound for my dac.


----------



## cat6man

crashem said:


> Actually makes it seem more complicated than it is.  I basically play with cables, settings on the dac.  Sorry no black magic.  I wish I had some magic ritual to lock in the sound for my dac.


 
  
 that's what i was afraid of, 'cables'.
  
 i recently put psvane el34ph tubes in and even though they are now around 100 hours, i think (?) i like the stock tubes better.............need to swap them back in this weekend...........but also wondering if i changed anything else like cables, or if i didn't, will the cables make much of a difference...................the curse of 'everything matters'


----------



## Crashem

cat6man said:


> that's what i was afraid of, 'cables'.
> 
> i recently put psvane el34ph tubes in and even though they are now around 100 hours, i think (?) i like the stock tubes better.............need to swap them back in this weekend...........but also wondering if i changed anything else like cables, or if i didn't, will the cables make much of a difference...................the curse of 'everything matters'


 
  
 Which PSVANE did you try?  I would be trying things like cables last.  I am assuming you are using the BHSE since you are using el34.  Finding the right tube is going to make more of a difference or your dac.  What dac and what stax headphones are you using?  Also, what "problem" are you trying to fix (ie. what do you wish the sound to see more like).?


----------



## rgs9200m

hpiper said:


> I am considering getting a Stax rig, and while I don't have SR-009 money I would like to get something pretty good. I have heard that the SR407 sounds almost identical to the SR507, true?? I have been told that the tube amp, SRM006ts is the best value amp, again would most of you experienced Stax users agree? I wouldn't want to spend more than that but was wondering if it is better than, say the SRM323S?


 
 With the 006t amp, I recc. highly the RCA 6fq7/6cg7 clear top tubes. I just put them in my 007t/ii (not knowing what to expect, if anything) and it was a major improvement, 
 making me feel (if I never read the forums) that this is a very high end amp. It made the sound much more smooth and refined and I can turn it up a lot more and there is no fatigue.


----------



## davidsh

Thanks for the tip. Seems they only cost about 20$ per pair


----------



## rgs9200m

Yep, there seems to be a pretty big supply out there. I went for a matched set of 4 from a mainstream dealer so it cost me more, but I've had good luck with lower priced sources too on other tubes, so I think those would be fine.
 Stax USA actually told me to do this when I asked about this amp.
 I'm sure more expensive amps could do some things better, but I'm getting such fine sound from the 007t that I just don't feel the need to move on from it.
 It has a mix of musical sweetness and strong impact and speed and fine detail that is just music to my ears.


----------



## s1rrah

This might offend the purists ... but I'm a perpetual hack and so ...
  
 I go back and forth between my Koss ESP-950's and my Stax SR-404LE's ... I like them both a lot. The Koss for the uber smoothness, how physically lightweight they are and, believe it or not, the better sound stage (out of your head sounding) they are for me. I enjoy the 404LE's for their slightly better bass, and the obviously better detail retrieval and better high frequency performance and, overall, I consider the 404LE's a more "reference" sort of headphone. 
  
 But one thing about the Koss cans I really like much more than the 404LE's is the distance that the driver sits from my ear.
  
 With the Koss cans, the drivers are kept a good distance from the ear, which, to me anyway, results in a more speaker-like sound stage. And I get a much more three dimensional image of the music with the Koss headphones. Of course it's not on par with speakers, but it doesn't sound so much "in the head" as the 404LE's do.
  
 The 404LE's on the other hand, with their really swank leather pads, though very nice and comfy, still hold the driver almost right against my ear. When A/B listening between the two cans, I have to totally back the volume down when going from the Koss cans to the 404LE's since the latter is so much louder sounding due to the proximity of the drivers to the ear.
  
 And so I've been wondering: 
  
 Is there some way I could increase the distance of the 404LE's driver from my ear? I mean, make the pads/cushions thicker so the drivers/elements aren't resting right against my ear? (my ears fit completely within the 404LE's pads, BTW ... in a "circumaural" sort of way, and the drivers are quite nearly touching my ears).  I think the 404LE's ear pads are fixed with adhesive and so I can't think of a neat, reversible and non-destructive means of adding height to them, short of adding some material to the outsides of them.
  
 One thing I've read about is that the other SR-404 variants use a "pleather" sort of material that is thicker than the genuine leather of the SR-404LE's ... and that this "pleather" based pad holds the drivers further away from one's ear. The following is from a Headphonia review:
  


> _As you move up to the SR404 LE, you can feel that not only does real leather pads feel nicer on the skin, but the drivers are sitting closer to your ears. On my ears, the driver cover is actually touching the edge of my ears. Taking a measuring caliper and measuring from the middle of the pads to the driver cover, I get the following measurements:_
> 
> _SR-404 LE: 17.1mm
> SR-404 Signature: 19.4mm
> ...


 

Anyway ... as said, I love both of the aforementioned cans .. but  for my smallish ears, I think the 404LE's would sound much better if the drivers were ever so slightly backed off from my ear, like the much taller/deeper cups of the Koss cans.

Perhaps I could try replacing the pads with one of the thicker, "pleather" variants?

But once removed, are the real leather pads of the 404LE's able to be re applied?

Just curious ..


----------



## davidsh

I use 1-2mm double sided adhesive for my LS. Doesn't sound like much, but it actually helps getting more space for the ears.


----------



## s1rrah

davidsh said:


> I use 1-2mm double sided adhesive for my LS. Doesn't sound like much, but it actually helps getting more space for the ears.


 
  
 Do you put the tape between  the plastic housing and the actual ear pad? I would think so as to put it on the outside of the ear pad would just result in the tape sticking to your head. Which wouldn't be cool. Nor sound that good. 
  
 But thanks for that. BTW ... do you know anything about the adhesive holding the pads on to my 404LE's? Is it easy to pull them off the driver housing?
  
 Also, the thickness of the tape is 1-2mm ... but do you know the "width" specification? Can you PM me a link to an online example of what you use?
  
 Thanks again ...


----------



## davidsh

s1rrah said:


> davidsh said:
> 
> 
> > I use 1-2mm double sided adhesive for my LS. Doesn't sound like much, but it actually helps getting more space for the ears.
> ...


 
 Really, my LS is kind of a mess, but it sounds good (snapped arc, occationally imbalanced driver that squeals fixed with tape etc). Point is, it's just some random adhesive I picked up locally some time ago and I don't care that much for it. It probably doesn't seal a 100% either, I just needed to put my pads in place, as they kept sliding upwards and forward on the housing. Anyway, they easily go down to 40 Hz before they really start dropping off, so it can't be that bad.

  
 I don't know how replacing pads is on newer Stax earspeakers, probably not that bad, but it took me like 2 hours with isopropyl alcohol to get that adhesive off because the adhesive basically had become one sticky mess over the years. Goo-off-ish products should work very well to clean it off from what I have heard.


----------



## s1rrah

Thanks.


----------



## mangler

s1rrah said:


> And so I've been wondering:
> 
> Is there some way I could increase the distance of the 404LE's driver from my ear? I mean, make the pads/cushions thicker so the drivers/elements aren't resting right against my ear? (my ears fit completely within the 404LE's pads, BTW ... in a "circumaural" sort of way, and the drivers are quite nearly touching my ears).  I think the 404LE's ear pads are fixed with adhesive and so I can't think of a neat, reversible and non-destructive means of adding height to them, short of adding some material to the outsides of them.




I've stuffed memory foam in that spot where the earpads wrap inwards (hope that makes sense) and it worked pretty well.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

This ocd level stuff drives me nuts.  Once you rip the pad off the adhesive becomes less grippy which is a good or bad thing... You can experiment with different pads with less grating experience ripping off the pads for swapping but then the adhesive loosens every time so pads don't stick uniformly any more.  This seems to be a reality of things as older lambdas end up like this over time on their own.  I believe as long as you still get the farts you're probably ok even with looser adhesive.  New pads come with new adhesive anyways so you can set and forget when you figure out what you want to stick with, just be careful not to hurt the pads themselves.
  
 Speaking of which the older pads are thicker I believe, the 407 pad will actually be plushier but warmer/sweatier at the same time.  The height of the pads seems to have a pretty good degree of effect on the sound but I think maintaining a seal is the most important part.


----------



## TheAttorney

cat6man said:


> that's what i was afraid of, 'cables'.
> 
> i recently put psvane el34ph tubes in and even though they are now around 100 hours, i think (?) i like the stock tubes better.............need to swap them back in this weekend...........but also wondering if i changed anything else like cables, or if i didn't, will the cables make much of a difference...................the curse of 'everything matters'


 

 Be afraid, be very afraid. IMO everything _does_ matter to varying degrees, but that doesn't explain you preferring stock tubes over the PH's in the BHSE. Maybe you'll be surprised when you swap the PH's back in (as I was). But assuming for now you will still prefer stock, then I can only think of the following explanations:
  

Sample variation has made your particular PH's worse than normal
Sample variation has made your particular stock tubes much better than normal
You're nuts
I'm nuts
  
 As you already seem to have a pretty high end system, IMO a _well chosen_ posh cable will very broadly give much the same improvements as the PH's over the stock JJ tubes: i.e. improved definition, focus and clarity, whilst at the same time removing a layer of higher frequency "haze" and "glare", ending up with a more dynamic. lifelike sound. However, based on your tube preference so far, you may well end up preferring the stock cable, which is great, as you'll save yourself pots of money. So it's essential to get such things on a trial basis.
  
 I'm getting some interesting results with my herbie tube dampers on the PH's, but if you don't like the PH's in the first place, then that option may be throwing good money after bad.


----------



## Rpell

*SRM-323s failure*
  
 Just wondering if anyone else has experienced a bad 323s?  I recently bought one from PriceJapan and it seemed to work okay the first couple of times I tried it but soon starting cutting out in the right channel after a few minutes of use.
  
 I measured the DC voltage on the right and left outputs and it starts out very low on both channels (as it should) right after turn on, but after a few minutes the DC voltage level on the right channel's + and - outputs starts rising and before long it's at about -370 V. On the pc board itself the right-channel LEDs D2 and D3 turn bright red while D1 goes dim or out.
  
 The problem clearly seems heat related, and I'm guessing could be either a bad component or even a bad solder joint somewhere.  I've reported it to PJ and am awaiting instructions re: returning under warranty etc. They seemed to confuse this with the "channel imbalance" problem that apparently many have reported but which has never been resolved, and seem reluctant to give me the needed info to ship the unit back without being able to "show malfunction-sample to Stax."


----------



## 3X0

This is going to sound really obvious, but were you using a 117V->100V converter? JDM SRM-323Ss are only designed to operate on 100V.


----------



## cat6man

theattorney said:


> Be afraid, be very afraid. IMO everything _does_ matter to varying degrees, but that doesn't explain you preferring stock tubes over the PH's in the BHSE. Maybe you'll be surprised when you swap the PH's back in (as I was). But assuming for now you will still prefer stock, then I can only think of the following explanations:
> 
> 
> Sample variation has made your particular PH's worse than normal
> ...


 
  
 number 3 is obviously true, but this could involve more than just one factual item 
  
 i may not have been clear originally, but i may have already changed cables a bit, so i'm not sure the psvane tubes are the only thing i varied.
 stay tuned............


----------



## complin

Miosz is absolutely correct this is very important with electrostatics the p 2 p voltage and slew rate particularly in relation to the more difficult to drive models like the  original Omega, the 007 mk1 and the Sigma Pro.
 I have been a stats headphone user since the late 1960's and these are two of the main attributes I always look for when evaluating an amplifier  for these types of transducers.  The best amplifiers sonically always tend to excel in these areas like the legendary Stax SRM-T2 which really wakes up the 007 mk1 and Omega.
  
 Quote:


milosz said:


> I think people are somewhat off-base talking about the reason that some of us feel that the 007 (esp. mk I) really come alive with an amp capable of higher voltage swings -  and it is NOT just volume.
> 
> The SLEW RATE is important.


 
  
 Quote:


milosz said:


> Most electrostatic amps just can't swing ENOUGH voltage FAST ENOUGH (with low distortion) into the reactive load of an electrostatic driver.


 
  
  
 Quote:


dripf said:


> The SLEW RATE is meaningless.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> Classic unsubstantiated claim.


----------



## rgs9200m

s1rrah said:


> But one thing about the Koss cans I really like much more than the 404LE's is the distance that the driver sits from my ear.


 
 Read Wes Phillips on the Lambda Nova:
 "Maybe it's just me, but I experienced an odd sensation while listening to the Stax 'phones over long periods. I would become aware of the proximity of the diaphragm to my ear, but the sensation would disappear as soon as I paid attention to it. This felt like the aural equivalent of those optical illusions in which the foreground becomes the background when gazed at intently. By contrast, the Sennheiser HD 600 simulated music occurring in space better than any other headphone I have used—I was never conscious of its diaphragm's proximity to my eardrum."
  
 stereophile.com/content/stax-lambda-nova-signature-electrostatic-ear-speaker-wp-february-1998


----------



## Rpell

3x0 said:


> This is going to sound really obvious, but were you using a 117V->100V converter? JDM SRM-323Ss are only designed to operate on 100V.


 

 Yes.  I'm using a Power Bright VC100J transformer.  (And I did check even that to be sure it was actually providing ~100 Vac.)


----------



## s1rrah

rgs9200m said:


> Read Wes Phillips on the Lambda Nova:
> "Maybe it's just me, but I experienced an odd sensation while listening to the Stax 'phones over long periods. I would become aware of the proximity of the diaphragm to my ear, but the sensation would disappear as soon as I paid attention to it. This felt like the aural equivalent of those optical illusions in which the foreground becomes the background when gazed at intently. By contrast, the Sennheiser HD 600 simulated music occurring in space better than any other headphone I have used—I was never conscious of its diaphragm's proximity to my eardrum."
> 
> stereophile.com/content/stax-lambda-nova-signature-electrostatic-ear-speaker-wp-february-1998


 
  
 Thanks, but...
  
 It is nearly criminal to compare the HD600 with any *real*, Stax can. Much less the 404LE.

 Even at their worst, the Stax cans are far more resolving, detailed and otherwise, in all things, BETTER than any of the dynamics that Senn has provided. I've had HD600j's. I've had HD800's. I've had HD650'sa ... they are all sort of vieled and muted ... excepting the HD800 ... which tends towards the bright side of things. 
  
 Let the hate begin!!!!


----------



## rgs9200m

Yeah, Stereophile had this thing going for several years back then with many writers where they thought nothing could beat the HD650 with either a Headroom Max or a Cary 300SEI.
 I just thought the close-to-the-ear-driver comment matched yours, sort of.


----------



## astrostar59

Hi Mechagamer123
  


> In case anyone wanted a case for their Lambdas, I was able to barely fit my SR-202s inside a Pelican 1200 case. I had to cut the very ends of the foam off on the side with the cups, but nonetheless they fit with a big of gentle pushing.
> 
> It may have been better to get a case with a little bit extra breathing room, but the larger ones are much more expensive than this 1200.


 
  
 I love your near case. I would recommend bagging the phones prior to insertion, as the foam can / will give out particles and over time may also break.
 Plus it protects the phones from dust during transit. I guess you have this case in mind for going to Shows? Or maybe storage in the house?
 Put some silca jells in the bag and seal it. My 007 cups started getting mouldy after a few months of storage.
  
 I use a glass bell jar for everyday cover. Looks kinda odd but seems to work.


----------



## HPiper

Still wondering if someone could compare both sound and comfort of the SR407 vs SR507. It 'looks like' the 507's main improvements over the 407 are in the area of comfort, is there an audible improvement as well or is it just a more comfortable 407. I would hope it is more than just cosmetic as the 507 is almost double the price of the 407.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I've never heard both of them, but I'd rather buy SR-407 :
 - right Stax look : ugly as hell, with this ****ty colour and 70's design
 - sound not that different, as far as I read around the interweb
 - cheaper
 - I already have a SR-009, not interested in cans with the same headband
  
 Only bad reasons. But I totally take reponsibility for them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## dripf

complin said:


> p 2 p voltage and slew rate


 
 Same thing.
  
 And the same garbage non-math answers that will keep you all running in circles long after I've walked away.


----------



## nemomec

hpiper said:


> Still wondering if someone could compare both sound and comfort of the SR407 vs SR507. It 'looks like' the 507's main improvements over the 407 are in the area of comfort, is there an audible improvement as well or is it just a more comfortable 407. I would hope it is more than just cosmetic as the 507 is almost double the price of the 407.


 
  
 I had the SR-507 and the SR-407 every two times, for me is the SR-407 the better choice. First reason: The "old" headband of the SR-407 has more comfort. Second reason: I find the SR-407 more balanced, the SR-507 has for me strength highs from silver cable and to much bass from the leather pads. The SR-507 is in my opinion one of the worst and unbalanced lambda models! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But thats only my opinion, i like the older vintage models more see signature or nova signature.


----------



## zolkis

hpiper said:


> Still wondering if someone could compare both sound and comfort of the SR407 vs SR507. It 'looks like' the 507's main improvements over the 407 are in the area of comfort, is there an audible improvement as well or is it just a more comfortable 407. I would hope it is more than just cosmetic as the 507 is almost double the price of the 407.


 
  
 The 507 had deeper bass with more impact (not only because the earpad).
 Also, wind instruments sound a bit more natural and realistic on the 507.
 It is also better built, and looks higher class - but not like the Omega's.


----------



## complin

I beg to differ 
 Its clear you have such great expertise and long time usage of this technology that it would be fruitless continuing the conversation.




  
 Quote:


dripf said:


> Same thing.
> 
> And the same garbage non-math answers that will keep you all running in circles long after I've walked away.


----------



## 3X0

complin said:


>


 
 Not enough evidence to corroborate this.
  
 dude_500 had the best approach when he suggested the relationship between Vp-p and output rail voltage was more significant than just the Vp-p or slew rate. In just Vp-p or slew rate regarded alone, most Stax amplifiers are more than sufficient.


----------



## paradoxper

complin said:


>





> After following the Stax thread for a month, I no longer have an antipathy for audio snake oil salesmen. The average hobbyist has no interest in the science contained within his music, equipment, and listening. We *demand* to be able to dump our money!
> 
> My highlights of the thread:
> 
> ...


----------



## 3X0

paradoxper said:


>


 
 Incidentally, many of those features are rampant in high-end audio in general.


----------



## dripf

complin said:


> I beg to differ
> Its clear you have such great expertise and long time usage of this technology that it would be fruitless continuing the conversation.


 
  
 Classic invective. Are you having trouble differing, complin?


paradoxper said:


>


 

 Harnessing the hive mind, are we?


----------



## Lan647

hpiper said:


> Still wondering if someone could compare both sound and comfort of the SR407 vs SR507. It 'looks like' the 507's main improvements over the 407 are in the area of comfort, is there an audible improvement as well or is it just a more comfortable 407. I would hope it is more than just cosmetic as the 507 is almost double the price of the 407.


 
  
 Not compared them directly to one another, but I chose the SR-407 (it's on its way from Japan) because: 

 1. It sounds better. The SR-507 is brighter and more aggressive. If this is due to the difference in pads, the different cables or changes internally I do not know. But they do have the same driver, from what I've read. 

 2. The SR-507 is less comfortable (blame the different headband design). 

 3. I actually prefer the cosmetics of the 407, there is something charming about the brown/bronze look that just isn't there with the 507 to my eyes. 

 4. The 407 is cheaper. 


 The 507 has better build quality with the more advanced headband and real leather pads, but that's about it for me.


----------



## zolkis

zolkis said:


> The 507 had deeper bass with more impact (not only because the earpad).
> Also, wind instruments sound a bit more natural and realistic on the 507.
> It is also better built, and looks higher class - but not like the Omega's.



One more thing: the 507 takes a good 6 months for burn-in. After that the treble calms down and the FR snaps in a right context. It is very, very similar sounding to the HD800 except the slight treble etch and colder sound of the latter. If I have to find a fault, the 507 sounds more towards zingy (like the HE500) than etched - to my ears. But I don't consider the SR-009 etched either. 
There is no substitute for testing yourself, but make sure you compare burned-in units.


----------



## paradoxper

dripf said:


> Harnessing the hive mind, are we?


 
 Just gleaning all this knowledge you have on offer.


----------



## yawg

rgs9200m said:


> With the 006t amp, I recc. highly the RCA 6fq7/6cg7 clear top tubes. I just put them in my 007t/ii (not knowing what to expect, if anything) and it was a major improvement,
> making me feel (if I never read the forums) that this is a very high end amp. It made the sound much more smooth and refined and I can turn it up a lot more and there is no fatigue.


 

 What was the brand of your original set of tubes? Thanks.
  
 I have the SRM-T1S with the original tubes.


----------



## complin

Quote:


complin said:


>





> After following the Stax thread for a month, I no longer have an antipathy for audio snake oil salesmen. The average hobbyist has no interest in the science contained within his music, equipment, and listening. We *demand* to be able to dump our money!
> 
> 
> *Yes we do but its unlikely you will find it here....... look elsewhere there are other other forums/sources where its covered in greater detail in which some of the audio worlds best designers contribute, both commercial and DIY.  If you have been in the audio world for any time at all you should have learnt by now that snake oil and foo are rife, not just in headphones either! Its one of the marketeers main tools to convince us to buy stuff.*
> ...


----------



## gilency

zolkis said:


> One more thing: the 507 takes a good 6 months for burn-in. After that the treble calms down and the FR snaps in a right context. It is very, very similar sounding to the HD800 except the slight treble etch and colder sound of the latter. If I have to find a fault, the 507 sounds more towards zingy (like the HE500) than etched - to my ears. But I don't consider the SR-009 etched either.
> There is no substitute for testing yourself, but make sure you compare burned-in units.


 
 Electrostatics don't need or have burn-in.
 You ears get acclimated to their sound.


----------



## negura

gilency said:


> Electrostatics don't need or have burn-in.
> You ears get acclimated to their sound.


 
  
 I found this interesting:
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR009SZ91278.pdf
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR009SZ91278afterburnin.pdf
  
 That said, I had equipment where I noticed a very significant effect to sound from burn-in. With the SR-009s not really.


----------



## rgs9200m

yawg said:


> What was the brand of your original set of tubes? Thanks.
> 
> I have the SRM-T1S with the original tubes.


 
 EH (electro-harmonix). They say 'made in Russia' on the tubes.


----------



## cat6man

theattorney said:


> Be afraid, be very afraid. IMO everything _does_ matter to varying degrees, but that doesn't explain you preferring stock tubes over the PH's in the BHSE. Maybe you'll be surprised when you swap the PH's back in (as I was). But assuming for now you will still prefer stock, then I can only think of the following explanations:
> 
> 
> Sample variation has made your particular PH's worse than normal
> ...


 
  
 I have eliminated options 1 and 2, while options 3 and 4 are still to be determined.
  
 However, i also think I've found the problem................at the time I changed the tubes, I also ran changed the wiring a bit.
 My dac has both single ended and balanced outputs, and the balanced sound much better because the dac is truly balanced and using single ended throws away 1/2 the resistors in the R2R dac.
 I had previously talked to Vincent about using both outputs, balanced to BHSE and single ended to my speaker system and he said there would be no problem if I only used one at a time.
 So when I changed the tubes (or around then), I ran some single ended cables to a preamp.  However, it just occurred to me today that the pre-amp is always on so I've been unwittingly using both DAC outputs.  This afternoon I removed the single ended cables and I'm now enjoying a much better sounding set of PSVANE tubes in the  BHSE...................doh!!!!!!!!!
  
 So this was all cockpit error on my part and now I can go forward with comparing the stock tubes with the psvane el34h tubes.
 I'll follow up my observations in the bhse thread (which is probably where this sub-thread  belonged in the first place).


----------



## zolkis

gilency said:


> Electrostatics don't need or have burn-in.
> You ears get acclimated to their sound.




Certainly a big factor, but the brain doesn't need half a year for that. Though your mileage may vary ☺. At the dealer the let's call it burn in effect was even more pronounced with the lesser models llike 307, 207. I shouldn't mention, but there are also cryogenic treatments for the Lambdas , with a claimed effect on housing,cables, etc. Everyone invents new names for hope, but there is a hearable calm-down of the sound, which I called burn in.


----------



## zolkis

Brain burn in here or there, but I could not acclimatize or make 
long term peace with a lot of headphones, including some big names. The 507 was pretty fine; the Omegas are better, but it sounds way better than many. A good test is what impression do they make in the morning.

The 007 takes a few minutes of acclimatization each time, the 507 sounded open and the same right away. 

I don't exclude there may be multiple levels of brain burn in, but neither do I exclude that equipment sound changes slightly over time.


----------



## gilency

> spritzer said:
> 
> 
> > True devotion to burn in usually goes hand in hand with an utter believe in how good our senses are.  The rest of us who know just how bad our sensory systems are, that they can't be trusted and thus know it is all BS.


 


arnaud said:


> Just to make sure the reality distortion stops here: Stax did not once mention during the interview or the tour that their phones benefit from burn in. The single most important aspect is to weed out lemons.


----------



## complin

The original tubes these amps shipped with when they were manufactured were specially selected and branded by Stax in Japan. They are called "Golden Aero" and were made in Japan, and have a particularly sweet and detailed sound. I still have some of the originals going strong, but you can replace them with similar tubes from a number of Japanese makers like Toshiba, Matsu****a etc.
 I have found that putting in other tubes manufactured in China or Russia can make the sound aggressive and very bright, and even vintage American tubes can sometimes do the same but to a much lesser extent.
  
  
 Quote:


rgs9200m said:


> EH (electro-harmonix). They say 'made in Russia' on the tubes.


----------



## rgs9200m

Stax USA suggested to me on the phone to use the RCA cleartops and offered to re-bias them for me (I ended up doing that myself).


----------



## mechgamer123

astrostar59 said:


> Hi Mechagamer123
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm honestly not really sure what kind of a bag to use to put in there before putting the headphones in. I also do not plan to leave these in the case for more than maybe a day or two at a time, so I don't think my pair will get any mold in the case. Thanks for that suggestion as well though, and I will keep that in mind if I do ever store them for long periods of time!


----------



## rx79ez08

Do anyone know if the head band assembly of a SR Sigma is identical to a SR-Lambda?


----------



## nemomec

rx79ez08 said:


> Do anyone know if the head band assembly of a SR Sigma is identical to a SR-Lambda?


 

 Yes, but the symbols on the right/left mark are different sigma vs lambda.


----------



## milosz

Not headphones, but still Stax:   a capacitor phono cartridge is listed on eBay.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stax-Electrostatic-Direct-Pickup-System-CP-Y-ECP-1-Cartridge-Equalizer-Amp-/251508886555?pt=US_Record_Players_Home_Turntables&hash=item3a8f190c1b
  
 I


----------



## astrostar59

> Be afraid, be very afraid. IMO everything _does_ matter to varying degrees, but that doesn't explain you preferring stock tubes over the PH's in the BHSE. Maybe you'll be surprised when you swap the PH's back in (as I was). But assuming for now you will still prefer stock, then I can only think of the following explanations:
> 
> 
> Sample variation has made your particular PH's worse than normal
> ...


 
 Maybe it is because The Attorney has 007s? I also have 007s but Mk2.5s, and though I haven't got my BHSE yet, I have heard from users in the UK
 that thePHs tame the treble. So good on an 009, but might be better to keep the stock tubes on the 007s as they could probably absorb the treble lift?
  
 Does this make sense?


----------



## David1961

astrostar59 said:


> > Be afraid, be very afraid. IMO everything _does_ matter to varying degrees, but that doesn't explain you preferring stock tubes over the PH's in the BHSE. Maybe you'll be surprised when you swap the PH's back in (as I was). But assuming for now you will still prefer stock, then I can only think of the following explanations:
> >
> >
> >
> ...




I think it does, which is why when you visit my place along with your SR-007mk2's, I'll be putting the stock Mullard's in the BHSE, then the PH's.


----------



## Golfnutz

astrostar59 said:


> Maybe it is because The Attorney has 007s? I also have 007s but Mk2.5s, and though I haven't got my BHSE yet, I have heard from users in the UK
> 
> that thePHs tame the treble. So good on an 009, but might be better to keep the stock tubes on the 007s as they could probably absorb the treble lift?
> 
> ...


 
 Not really. Treble is only part of it. Soundstage, bass, resolution, clarity, imaging (insert what ever else you can think of). At least in my system.


----------



## David1961

golfnutz said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe it is because The Attorney has 007s? I also have 007s but Mk2.5s, and though I haven't got my BHSE yet, I have heard from users in the UK
> ...




I'm agreeing with Julian ( astrostar59 ) about trying the stock Mullard's with my BHSE when he brings his 007mk2's, because I recently heard the 007mk2's with my BHSE while the PH tubes were being used, and even though the BHSE was driving the mk2's, the SQ I heard reminded me of the SR-007mk1 / SRM-007t I once had, veiled.


----------



## astrostar59

How is the QC on the PSVanes? Is there still a scare story, or is it sorted now?


----------



## David1961

astrostar59 said:


> How is the QC on the PSVanes? Is there still a scare story, or is it sorted now?




The reason why I didn't order the PH tubes when I first heard about them Julian, was because of what I read about their build quality, but after hearing what Grant Fidelity were doing, I ordered via them.
I've had mine about 2-3months without any problems, but some head-fiers have had theirs a lot longer so it'll be best to hear from them.


----------



## scorpio187

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but does anyone know if there will a successor to SR-009?


----------



## dude_500

scorpio187 said:


> I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but does anyone know if there will a successor to SR-009?


 
  
 Nobody knows. I would doubt there will be any time soon since the SR-009 is relatively new, but in the long term it seems unlikely a company would never innovate a new product. Therefore, unless they were to go out of business, I seriously doubt they will never make new headphones. It would be a poor business model.


----------



## scorpio187

Agreed. How long has it been since the day it was released anyway...4, 5 years?


----------



## David1961

If you go on the Stax website, the history section tells the the model and the year it came out.
 This might give an idea when a future model might come out.


----------



## project86

With my KGSShv on the way to me now (off-board, 2sa1968, 14mA) and already owning the 007, I'm wondering what else is worth looking at. I highly respect the 009 but don't want to own one. I'm always open for an SR-4070 but that is proving elusive. What else?
  
  
 The SR-003 mkII is something I'd love to try - probably with custom molds for the tips. This is almost a sure thing due to the low price and complete difference from my O2. 
  
 The SR-207 is being suggested to me, as the least obnoxious/bright of the new Lambda models. Also the cheapest which is a bonus. Hoping this would sort of be an HD800 type experience, rather different from my O2 but enjoyable in its own way.
  
 What else is worth looking at? I remember enjoying the 404LE but not sure if it's all that different than the 207. Also the prices now seem a lot higher than they used to be, due to scarcity I suppose.


----------



## Argybargy

SR-X mk3
SR-5


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

project86 said:


> With my KGSShv on the way to me now (off-board, 2sa1968, 14mA) and already owning the 007, I'm wondering what else is worth looking at. I highly respect the 009 but don't want to own one. I'm always open for an SR-4070 but that is proving elusive. What else?
> 
> 
> The SR-003 mkII is something I'd love to try - probably with custom molds for the tips. This is almost a sure thing due to the low price and complete difference from my O2.
> ...


 

 Any vintage Lambda.


----------



## 3X0

SR-Ω


----------



## jaycalgary

My Stax collection kicks ass just saying lol


----------



## Ali-Pacha

NB Lambda, SR-5. 
 Own both 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ali


----------



## bearFNF

NB here also, still kicking. ..


----------



## kothganesh

SR 5


----------



## schorsch

Original Lambda Signature with ED-1 
Sigma
Pawel EQ with SR 007 009

Regards Georg


----------



## preproman

Koss ESP-950s


----------



## Audio Jester

Maybe these??
http://imgur.com/gallery/ibQXM


----------



## s1rrah

project86 said:


> With my KGSShv on the way to me now (off-board, 2sa1968, 14mA) and already owning the 007, I'm wondering what else is worth looking at. I highly respect the 009 but don't want to own one. I'm always open for an SR-4070 but that is proving elusive. What else?
> 
> 
> The SR-003 mkII is something I'd love to try - probably with custom molds for the tips. This is almost a sure thing due to the low price and complete difference from my O2.
> ...




I had 307's and now have the 404LE's. I find the 404LE to be a much better sounding headphone. No real comparison really. Haven't heard the 207's but I suspect they are very similar to the 307's.

Course bang for buck might favor the 207's but I just couldn't take the midrange "glare"/etch of the 307's. The 404LE's are the best lambda I've heard (also really love the 303's which I think have 90% of the 404LE quality).


----------



## takato14

project86 said:


> With my KGSShv on the way to me now (off-board, 2sa1968, 14mA) and already owning the 007, I'm wondering what else is worth looking at. I highly respect the 009 but don't want to own one. I'm always open for an SR-4070 but that is proving elusive. What else?
> 
> 
> The SR-003 mkII is something I'd love to try - probably with custom molds for the tips. This is almost a sure thing due to the low price and complete difference from my O2.
> ...


 
 SR-X MKIII


----------



## cucera

takato14 said:


> SR-X MKIII




absolutely and especially in the SR-X MK3 pro version


----------



## davidsh

Just to summarise, good earspeakers that are definitely worthwhile?
  
 SR5
 SRX MK3
 Lambda NB
 Lambda Pro
 Sigma NB, but Pro better
 Lambda Signature
 Lambda Nova Signature
 207
 404-LE
 407
 009
 007 mk. 1
 Omega
  
 Just some random thoughts?


----------



## nemomec

The best Stax headphones that i heard and recommended:
  
 SR Omega
 Lambda Signature
 Lambda Nova Signature
 Lambda NB
 Sigma NB
 maybe the SR-009 and SR-007 MK1
  
 the best Stax headphone amps for this models:
  
 SRM-717
 SRM-007t
 SRA-12S


----------



## cucera

nemomec said:


> The best Stax headphones that i heard and recommended:
> 
> SR Omega
> Lambda Signature
> ...




Agree with the Ranking just dislike the srm 007t and like to add the late series (c or pp) srm1-mk2.
And as many of you know: The SR-007 MK1 rules tham all for me.


----------



## kothganesh

davidsh said:


> Just to summarise, good earspeakers that are definitely worthwhile?
> 
> SR5
> SRX MK3
> ...


 
 David:
  
 Have you ranked these in any particular order?
  
 Thanks


----------



## nemomec

cucera said:


> Agree with the Ranking just dislike the srm 007t ...


 
  
 SRM-007t (version with normal output) works very well with Stax SR Sigma NB.
  
 SRM1 MK2 Pro only C-version and P.P. also very good amps, i forgot it


----------



## cucera

we two are on our way as german branch of the Stax Mafia


----------



## nemomec

cucera said:


> we two are on our way as german branch of the Stax Mafia


 

 Yes


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I have a SRM-1/mk2 pro (not P.P.), C-version...is this one that different from A and B versions ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Works fine with SR-009, SR-5 and SR-Lambda NB, BTW.
  
 Ali


----------



## davidsh

kothganesh said:


> davidsh said:
> 
> 
> > Just to summarise, good earspeakers that are definitely worthwhile?
> ...



No particular order.

For me it'd be:
SR-009>>>007 mk. 2>LS
>Sigma NB>Lambda NB>307

Haven't heard much else for longer periods of time.


----------



## Miracles

Is there any authorized Stax dealers in Canada? Can't seem to find any.


----------



## jgazal

miracles said:


> Is there any authorized Stax dealers in Canada? Can't seem to find any.


 
  
http://www.stax.co.jp/Export/Distributor-CANADA.html


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Nb = nova basic or Nb=normal bias?


----------



## davidsh

mr.sneis said:


> Nb = nova basic or Nb=normal bias?



Normal bias


----------



## cucera

ali-pacha said:


> I have a SRM-1/mk2 pro (not P.P.), C-version...is this one that different from A and B versions ?
> Works fine with SR-009, SR-5 and SR-Lambda NB, BTW.
> 
> Ali




All the SRM1 MK2 are good but the older A and B versions are not only older but were built with cheaper parts. The late C Version was improved and especially the pp with 2 pro bias outputs.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

cucera said:


> All the SRM1 MK2 are good but the older A and B versions are not only older but were built with cheaper parts. The late C Version was improved and especially the pp with 2 pro bias outputs.


 
 So I refurbished my A version with nice new resistors, caps, and diodes.  I also plan on adding a pro plug.  where would it rate now?  how much of a circuit change was there in the late versions?


----------



## yaluen

Hi all, I'm in the process of reconfiguring a SRM-1/MK-2 and want to confirm whether or not the leads into the transformer is properly set up so that I can rewire according to spritzer's post here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/5835#post_3902577
  
 Am I good to go?


----------



## kevin gilmore

if it was a 100V unit originally, you will have to pop open the plastic top and resolder
 the wires. If it was a 240V unit, you will be ok.


----------



## yaluen

This one's indeed a "100V ONLY" unit, an early revision A. How should I be soldering the leads once I get the plastic cap off?
  
 EDIT: Would this (http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/23610#post_9623345) be the procedure you're referring to?


----------



## takato14

cucera said:


> takato14 said:
> 
> 
> > SR-X MKIII
> ...


 
 good luck finding one though...


----------



## yaluen

kevin gilmore said:


> if it was a 100V unit originally, you will have to pop open the plastic top and resolder
> the wires. If it was a 240V unit, you will be ok.


 
  


yaluen said:


> This one's indeed a "100V ONLY" unit, an early revision A. How should I be soldering the leads once I get the plastic cap off?
> 
> EDIT: Would this (http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/23610#post_9623345) be the procedure you're referring to?


 
  
 Well, I cracked the plastic case open and look what greeted me:
  

  
 Guess I lucked out and am spared a delicate soldering job! Am I correct in assuming that all is fine with the leads into the transformer windings and all I have to do at this point is rewire the voltage selector socket as detailed in spritzer's post mentioned previously?


----------



## cucera

takato14 said:


> good luck finding one though...


i've got one


----------



## jaycalgary

I just bought a pair of Stax DA100M amps from Japan fairly blind. Looks to me like some of the Rca jacks were replaced at some point. Hoping they will be in good working modern condition. I can't make total sense of the Japanese translation but it sounded to me like I bought a pair in good working condition from probably a reseller with 1 slightly bent speaker jack. I bought off Buyee. Would somebody that understands Japanese well mind taking a look at the Buyee link and or the Yahoo link and briefly help me understand how it was described and if the seller seems like he would really know if they work properly? I am just really curious not that it make a difference now. I am thinking they will be amps for Apogee ribbon speakers one day.
  
 http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/k171454526    http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k171454526


----------



## schorsch

Also located in Germany

Regards Georg

What about a meet


----------



## davidsh

schorsch said:


> Also located in Germany
> 
> Regards Georg
> 
> What about a meet


 
 Southern part of Denmark so North Germany might be manageable


----------



## schorsch

Rhineland Platinate
Near Kaiserslautern

Regards Georg


----------



## spritzer

cucera said:


> All the SRM1 MK2 are good but the older A and B versions are not only older but were built with cheaper parts. The late C Version was improved and especially the pp with 2 pro bias outputs.


 
  
 That's pretty much completely incorrect.  The letters mean absolutely nothing and the serial numbers even less.  The parts used just represent the time when the units were built and how long the lifetime of the design was.


----------



## troymadison

I love the SR-407 with SR-507 pads quite a bit more than I thought I would. Is the SR-507 itself any different or better?


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Supposed to be the same drivers but different housing and cable and pads.  The drivers in 507 are also press fit rather than adhesive fit.


----------



## NoPants

the headband


----------



## troymadison

mr.sneis said:


> Supposed to be the same drivers but different housing and cable and pads.  The drivers in 507 are also press fit rather than adhesive fit.


 

 Did you like the LNS better?


----------



## Mr.Sneis

So far yes and by a good margin.  The problem is this pair of LNS are quite old and in pretty rough shape.  Very enjoyable listen.  They appear almost identical to the 407 but have rotting foam, different drivers, and fatter pads.


----------



## astrostar59

Anyone bought recently? What is your Stax 009 serial number and when did you buy?
  
 I am trying to date a pair here.
  
 Thanks guys


----------



## takato14

astrostar59 said:


> Anyone bought recently? What is your Stax 009 serial number and when did you buy?
> 
> I am trying to date a pair here.
> 
> Thanks guys


 
 Aren't the serial numbers picked at random?


----------



## georgep

Why would you think the serials numbers are random? Maybe the serial sticker is not applied exactly sequentially with the the exact order in which a headphone is made, but I doubt they are using some random number generator to pick the serial numbers.


----------



## astrostar59

No, the serial numbers are sequential. The pair I like is SZ9 2292. I know previous purchasers have had for example SZ9 2180. I reckon it means they have built 2,200 units?
  
 Anyway, if anyone has a recent purchase, what is their number. I can then date this pair.
  
 Thanks


----------



## georgep

astrostar59 said:


> No, the serial numbers are sequential. The pair I like is SZ9 2292. I know previous purchasers have had for example SZ9 2180. I reckon it means they have built 2,200 units?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


My recollection is the numbering started at SZ9 1xxx.


----------



## takato14

georgep said:


> Why would you think the serials numbers are random? Maybe the serial sticker is not applied exactly sequentially with the the exact order in which a headphone is made, but I doubt they are using some random number generator to pick the serial numbers.


 
 A lot of the time what is done is the numbers are picked at random from a set range of numbers.
  
 Say the range was MDL-0000 through MDL-9999. The first product could be assigned any number, let's say MDL-1492. The second product couldn't have MDL-1492, but it could have any other number in the pool.
  
 Sony did this with the MDR-R10 if I remember correctly.


----------



## project86

I know of several companies who do random numbers. Also some who do _seemingly _random numbers with a hidden pattern in there. Like 04xxx30xx2014xxx which is basically telling you the production date and the unique serial in there, but looking at it you'd probably never know.


----------



## Nymrej

Hi, everyone!  Like many people trying to join the Stax club, I have no way to audition any model.  For that reason, I'm hoping to get a used model as cheaply as possible with the idea that, if I really like what I'm hearing, I might be able to use the adapter that comes with it on an earspeaker currently in production.  I'm on a very tight budget so I'm trying to be a little creative.
  
 I understand that current earspeakers use pro bias, and adapters up to the SRD-6 used normal bias.  It's also my understanding that one _can_ use current earspeakers with older adapters but the sound quality would be diminished.  That's what I'm hoping to learn a bit more about.  Also, if certain amps would fit badly with those old adapters.  I have a NAD M3, and I simply can't afford to damage that amp with my inexpert fiddling around.  (I could dust off a Marantz receiver--nothing special, about 8 years old--for a different amp source.)
  
 So is it safe to use a SRD-6 or earlier model with current earspeakers?  Would the sound suffer?  Or should I just give up on this line of thinking altogether!
  
 Thanks for any advice.


----------



## NoPants

vintage stax typically tends to be better than the in-production stuff, you can streamline your purchase this way


----------



## cat6man

any idea what a fair price for SR-3 or SR-5 in good conditions might be?
 i'm looking to re-create my old dorm room system


----------



## Ali-Pacha

nopants said:


> vintage stax typically tends to be better than the in-production stuff, you can streamline your purchase this way


 
 More mids, more fun, less details and less extension. It a kind of tubes vs. SS battle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Ali


----------



## rx79ez08

What is the best way to source parts for repairing a broken set of Sigma handband?


----------



## padam

Get any of the Lambda headbands (either locally or directly from Stax Japan), it should fit with little or no modifications. (maybe the plastic pin is a little bit thicker where it attaches to the cups)
  
 Or you can try getting a broken older Lambda and use the headband from that, maybe with the Sigma hinges attached (if it is not where it has been broken)


----------



## David1961

Although I've heard both the 009's and 007mk1's with the SRM-717, I've never heard the 007mk2's with that Stax amp, however Julian when he visits my place could be bringing his 007mk2's and SRM-717, so I'm looking forward to how that Stax combo compares to my 009 / BHSE.
 I'd be surprised if that Stax combo even came close in SQ to the 009 / BHSE, but it'll be interesting to find out.


----------



## kothganesh

david1961 said:


> Although I've heard both the 009's and 007mk1's with the SRM-717, I've never heard the 007mk2's with that Stax amp, however Julian when he visits my place could be bringing his 007mk2's and SRM-717, so I'm looking forward to how that Stax combo compares to my 009 / BHSE.
> I'd be surprised if that Stax combo even came close in SQ to the 009 / BHSE, but it'll be interesting to find out.



David, what were your impressions on the 717 with the 007mk1?


----------



## David1961

kothganesh said:


> David, what were your impressions on the 717 with the 007mk1?




Sorry kothganesh, but when I heard the SR-007mk1's with the SRM-717 was about 2 years ago, so I can't remember that much on how that combo sounded, at the same time though I heard the SRM-007t with the 007mk1's and preferred the 717 to the two Stax amps, I also heard my 009's and preferred the 009's to the 007mk1's driven by both Stax amps.


----------



## kothganesh

david1961 said:


> ........................, I also heard my 009's and preferred the 009's to the 007mk1's driven by both Stax amps.


 
 You had to say this as well ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OK, time to rob a bank !


----------



## David1961

kothganesh said:


> david1961 said:
> 
> 
> > ........................, I also heard my 009's and preferred the 009's to the 007mk1's driven by both Stax amps.
> ...




Sorry, but I could've said the 009's sound a lot better when driven by the BHSE ( IMO ), than the two Stax amps I've heard them with.


----------



## kothganesh

david1961 said:


> Sorry, but I could've said the 009's sound a lot better when driven by the BHSE ( IMO ), than the two Stax amps I've heard them with.


 
 Haha but at least there I have the KGSShv (a very good build) so not feeling the pinch.


----------



## cucera

My Stax SR-007 MK1 with 717 are imho the best bang for the buck in High End audio. Can it get better? Yes but only marginal with extreme financial input.

So: Don't rob a bank.


----------



## AnakChan

cucera said:


> My Stax SR-007 MK1 with 717 are imho the best bang for the buck in High End audio. Can it get better? Yes but only marginal with extreme financial input.
> 
> So: Don't rob a bank.


 
  
 How much does the 717 vary from the 727a? I never appreciated the SR-007Mk1 with the SRM-007tA nor SRM-727A but have understood it more with the Electra with XF-2 tubes. But I've never had an opportunity to try the SR-007Mk1/717 combo.


----------



## David1961

kothganesh said:


> david1961 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, but I could've said the 009's sound a lot better when driven by the BHSE ( IMO ), than the two Stax amps I've heard them with.
> ...




Very nice, I've never heard the KGSSHV but I've read good things about it, congrats.


----------



## David1961

cucera said:


> My Stax SR-007 MK1 with 717 are imho the best bang for the buck in High End audio. Can it get better? Yes but only marginal with extreme financial input.
> 
> So: Don't rob a bank.




Please remember this, AFAIK Stax gear to buy can only be got via a distributor and or a retailer, so if it could be got directly from Stax the cost would probably be a lot less.


----------



## raulcf77

David, the improvement of the 009 with the BHSE compared to the 717 was huge?


----------



## David1961

raulcf77 said:


> David, the improvement of the 009 with the BHSE compared to the 717 was huge?




As I've said, it was around two years since I heard the 717, and I didn't hear that amp at the same time as my BHSE, also my K-01 wasn't being used when I heard the 717.

Since using the Psvane EL34PH's with my BHSE, no other headphone combo has come close to what I'm hearing with my 009 / BHSE.
When I first started using the PH's with my BHSE, I said that was the closest to life like sound I've heard from a headphone combo, and head-fier Scruffy7974 thought exactly the same when he heard a live performance CD he brought with him when he visited my place.

Julian ( another head-fier ) is also visiting my place and said he'd be bringing his SR-007mk2 and SRM-717, so I'll be able to tell the difference then on how they compare to the 009 / BHSE, I don't think the Stax combo with touch the 009 / BHSE, but I'll be using my K-01 as source.


----------



## kothganesh

cucera said:


> My Stax SR-007 MK1 with 717 are imho the best bang for the buck in High End audio. Can it get better? Yes but only marginal with extreme financial input.
> 
> So: Don't rob a bank.


 
 Cucera,
  
 I have the 717 as well. I bought the 007mk1 and the 717 together this year. Yes, its a very good combo but I also think that the KGSShv is more than just a marginal upgrade (can't comment on price/performance since I always like much better performance with only slight increases in cost 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## Argybargy

The 717 + 007mk1 was good but there was no Wow! Factor, but definitely better than the 007T. However, a 6S4A modified 007T sounds better than the 717, a bit more lifelike and better depth to the soundstage..


----------



## nemomec

Hello,
  
 i need some information about the SRM-007t mod with 6s4a tubes. I find only some pictures in the net but no detailed information which traces are cuted and bridged!?
  
 Thanks!
  
 picture of my SRM-007t:
  

  
  
 picture of modified SRM-007tII:


----------



## Argybargy

The 007t pcb is different from the 007tii pcb.
As far as I know there are no detailed instructions. Do a search for the other site, there are some general tips and photos.
Basically what I did was to compare the pinouts of the 6s4a and 6cg7 and closely examine the the traces and where they lead. It became obvious what to cut and what to bridge. If you don't have a decent knowledge of circuits and good soldering skills its best to pay someone to do it. I wouldn't recommend taking a knife to your $1000+ amp unless you are completely confident in what you are doing.


----------



## rgs9200m

Before you modify the 007t try the RCA cleartop tubes in place of the stock tubes.


----------



## nemomec

argybargy said:


> The 007t pcb is different from the 007tii pcb.
> As far as I know there are no detailed instructions. Do a search for the other site, there are some general tips and photos.
> Basically what I did was to compare the pinouts of the 6s4a and 6cg7 and closely examine the the traces and where they lead. It became obvious what to cut and what to bridge. If you don't have a decent knowledge of circuits and good soldering skills its best to pay someone to do it. I wouldn't recommend taking a knife to your $1000+ amp unless you are completely confident in what you are doing.


 

 Hello,
  
 thanks for the information,  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 engineering and soldering skills are no problem. Where i can find the shematic of the 6s4a tubes and can you describe how the sounds of the SRM-007t are changed after mod?
  
 I will use the SRM-007t only for the Lambda Signature and with the standard SRM-007t it has very good resolution, huge soundstage and very good bass but to aggressive highs. The warmer SRM-717 make this better, but with less soundstage.
  
 Is tube rolling the better option, now i have Electro Harmonix 6CG7 in the amp?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Argybargy

Just google for the 6S4A pinout diagram.
  
 After the mod and with the 007mk1, there is less distortion at higher volumes, the bass is tightened up and the soundstage is bigger.
  
 I had both the modded 007t and the 717 and after some listening, I sold the 717.
  
 Since you will be using the 007t with lambda sigs, I would definitely recommend tube rolling before trying the drastic mod.
  
 As RGS mentioned above, try out the RCA clear tops and also some black plates from the 1950s/ early 1960s.


----------



## rgs9200m

Yep, among other things, the RCA clear tops on the 007t/ii directly targets the sometimes troublesome aggressive highs with the 009s at higher volumes, just what the doctor ordered.
 It also makes things more smooth and delicate. I see (well, hear I should say) no downsides over the stock tubes.
  
 I am very curious about what you hear if you do the 6S4A mod, so if you report here I would be grateful. Thanks again.


----------



## nemomec

Ok, thanks for your help. I think i make first a tube rolling with the RCA clear tops.


----------



## complin

Really depends on what's installed at the moment and also what source you are using with the 009.
  
 I see you also seem to be selling one of best amps to use with 009? 
  
 Quote:


nemomec said:


> Ok, thanks for your help. I think i make first a tube rolling with the RCA clear tops.


----------



## nemomec

complin said:


> Really depends on what's installed at the moment and also what source you are using with the 009.
> 
> I see you also seem to be selling one of best amps to use with 009?
> 
> ...


 

 Hello,
  
 i will only use the SRM-007t with the Lambda Signature not for SR-009 and SR 007. I testet some stax amps (SRM-T1S, SRM-006t/tS, SRM-MK2 Pro, SRM-323S, SRM-717, SRM-007t, SRA-12S) and in my ears the Lambda Signature + SRM-007t was the best in resolution, soundstage and bass, followed by the SRM-717 but the SRM-007t has to aggressive highs.


----------



## complin

Your SRA-12s would be a good match for the SR-009's but I see you have now sold it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Personally I prefer Japanese tubes for Stax energisers ideally toshiba or alternatively matsusita. I would avoid chinese or soviet versions as I find these very bright indeed!
 The Lambda signature is known for being rather bright supposedly due to the very thin driver membranes, have you tried the L Nova Signature?


----------



## nemomec

complin said:


> Your SRA-12s would be a good match for the SR-009's but I see you have now sold it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I had a second SRA-12S 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yes i tried also the Nova Signature, its my second favorite Lambda modell but it has not the open airy sound of the Signature that i like it so much. Note: The Lambda Nova Signature pairs very well with the SRA-12S. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Its hard to find here in Europe RCA clear tops or Japanese 6CG7 tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   
  
 What Do you think about this tubes?
  
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/6CG7-Z-I-JAPAN-NEW-OLD-STOCK-VALVE-TUBE-JY13-/390628073280?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item5af33f5f40
  
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/6FQ7-6CG7-MATSU****A-JAPAN-NEW-OLD-STOCK-VALVE-TUBE-JY13-/390628073492?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item5af33f6014
  
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/6CG7-6FQ7-Mazda-England-Tube-Valve-18-available-/380886246610?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item58ae96e4d2


----------



## rgs9200m

nemomec said:


> Its hard to find here in Europe RCA clear tops or Japanese 6CG7 tubes.


 
 I don't think this is true at all. I got my fine RCA cleartops from Tube Depot and they will ship to you with no issues.
 This is from their FAQ:
  

*I want to place an international order. Will you ship to my county?* 

Yes, we ship worldwide.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
  
Here, just go to this: tubedepot.com/products/6cg7-6fq7-rca-clear-top


----------



## complin

$50 for RCA clear tops seems a bit steep
 You can buy them from a couple of UK suppliers like watford valves https://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=3181  and HighEnd workshopshttp://www.highendworkshop.co.uk/index.asp but these seem expensive to @ £30 each, especially for a quad.
  
 I always get my spares off ebay in the us, the RCA clear tops are quite plentiful including matched pairs. For the Japanese manufactures particularly the Toshibas you will need to bide your time as they come up occasionally but are quite sought after.


----------



## rgs9200m

True on the price, but I like to support my tube dealers out there.


----------



## davidsh

The Lambda Signature isn't that bright. Try the 307. That's bright.
  
 The LS might be a little edgy and slightly hard in the treble, and sure it isn't mellow.


----------



## complin

Agreed, but its the "brightest" of the vintage Lambdas but also the fastest in terms of dynamics too.
  
 Quote:


davidsh said:


> The Lambda Signature isn't that bright. Try the 307. That's bright.
> 
> The LS might be a little edgy and slightly hard in the treble, and sure it isn't mellow.


----------



## paradoxper

Any interest in a SR-007? Mine are F/S


----------



## project86

Mind if I ask why you are selling? Going for 009 or some other Stax instead or.... ?


----------



## paradoxper

The 009's just do it for me. Too much expenditure as of late so mk 1 has to go.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Damn like that


----------



## paradoxper

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Damn like that


 
 Nasty like.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Haha

You know you are going to have to send them back eventually right............right?


----------



## paradoxper

OF course, as soon as Mike sends them to me.


----------



## n3rdling

I think Frank cooter might be looking for a set


----------



## paradoxper

Good stuff. I PM'ed him.


----------



## rgs9200m

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but it seems that, if you want an SR009 system, there is a rough consensus here (that has developed after Tyll's amp shootout) that the only way to get decent sound is with a BHSE,
 with a KGSSHV a distant second, and everything else is just not worth using.
  
 This is probably frustrating for the prospective SR009 owner of phones that just may be in a class of excellence all their own, because:
  1. Even if you want to pay what the BHSE costs (and I'm not saying it's overpriced at all for what you get and Justin's craftsmanship), you need to wait almost 2 years.
  2. A KGSS is not even a commercial product, and some people don't want to deal with that.
  3. There is even some criticism of these products, and some owners say better and more expensive tubes are needed to make the sound fully acceptable.
  
 I say this because, by just trying some warmer cables and better tubes, I was able to coax what I hear as brilliant, non-fatiguing sound from my SR009s on the often maligned Stax 007t/ii amp (as I have mentioned here from time to time).
 And I bet this kind of effort would yield similar good results with the other amps out there. Making a high end system sound right is not a plug and play thing, and certainly not with something as sensitive as the 009 phone.
 Chances are, you will need to do something upstream, but it's not super expensive, and is part of the fun of this game.
  
 I just think it is a shame that many people are coming away with the impression that heroic efforts are needed and nothing but those 2 top amps will produce extraordinary results from these phones,
 which have a level of resolution and musical truth that is historic in the world of headphones and even in speaker land.
  
 All I need is my stock 007t/ii amp with my RCA cleartops and some Cardas Golden Cross interconnects and some old warmish-sounding Shunyata power cables and the sound is remarkable, unlike any other headphone I have heard in terms of 
 resolution, insight, and speed, all without fatigue or pain. The bass is wonderful, reasonably deep and with nice impact and the whole frequency spectrum is very well balanced from top to bottom. And if I could do this with my amp, I think the other amps are worthy of more thorough experimentation.
  
 (I have moved on to some great Stealth interconnects and a very good power conditioner, but these were more icing on the cake, and not truly necessary.)


----------



## MacedonianHero

rgs9200m said:


> Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but it seems that, if you want an SR009 system, there is a rough consensus here (that has developed after Tyll's amp shootout) that the only way to get decent sound is with a BHSE,
> with a KGSSHV a distant second, and everything else is just not worth using.
> 
> This is probably frustrating for the prospective SR009 owner of phones that just may be in a class of excellence all their own, because:
> ...


 
  
 I agree with you. I thought my SRM727II/SR-009 combo was still better than any other headphone rig I've heard....and still a good improvement over my HD800s (regardless of rig).


----------



## dukeskd

The 727 amp is a lot better when combining with the 009 because it tames the treble quite nicely. The BHSE does indeed allow for greater control of the drivers but it also enhances the treble of the 009 to the point of harshness which will lead to ear fatigue.


----------



## MacedonianHero

dukeskd said:


> The 727 amp is a lot better when combining with the 009 because it tames the treble quite nicely. The BHSE does indeed allow for greater control of the drivers but it also enhances the treble of the 009 to the point of harshness which will lead to ear fatigue.


 
  
 I haven't heard the BHSE yet...but I've never heard harshness with the -009s and either the KGSS or KGSSHV.


----------



## 3X0

dukeskd said:


> The 727 amp is a lot better when combining with the 009 because it tames the treble quite nicely. The BHSE does indeed allow for greater control of the drivers but it also enhances the treble of the 009 to the point of harshness which will lead to ear fatigue.


 
 I agree. I don't understand how people cope with KG designs on the SR-009 unless they have older and/or less treble-sensitive ears.
  
 It's really quite the elephant in the room IMHO.


----------



## blubliss

bs, IMHO


----------



## kothganesh

rgs9200m said:


> Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but it seems that, if you want an SR009 system, there is a rough consensus here (that has developed after Tyll's amp shootout) that the only way to get decent sound is with a BHSE,
> with a KGSSHV a distant second, and everything else is just not worth using.
> 
> This is probably frustrating for the prospective SR009 owner of phones that just may be in a class of excellence all their own, because:
> ...


 
 Nice post.  I consider myself fortunate to own both the 717 and a KGSShv ( a truly great build). I have A/B'd both amps with my 007mk1. To my ears, the SQ is better with the latter amp but I spent 3 months with the 717 first. It is no slouch at all and some people here will assert that the 717 pairs very well with both the 007 and the 009.


----------



## David1961

3x0 said:


> dukeskd said:
> 
> 
> > The 727 amp is a lot better when combining with the 009 because it tames the treble quite nicely. The BHSE does indeed allow for greater control of the drivers but it also enhances the treble of the 009 to the point of harshness which will lead to ear fatigue.
> ...




IMO, try Psvane EL34PH tubes with the BHSE driving the 009's.


----------



## okw3188

Just like to check feedback on ordering from pricejapan. I've ordered a pair of Airbow SC-21, initially they claim lead time is 1 month, but it has been more than 2 months now and still nothing heard from them.


----------



## David1961

okw3188 said:


> Just like to check feedback on ordering from pricejapan. I've ordered a pair of Airbow SC-21, initially they claim lead time is 1 month, but it has been more than 2 months now and still nothing heard from them.




I got my SR-009's from PriceJapan and there was a delay when they got to UK customs, but I didn't have a problem with PriceJapan.
To what I recall, from ordering to PriceJapan sending my 009's took about 3 weeks, but the delay at UK customs seemed to be around 2 or 3 weeks.
If you're getting concerned, send PriceJapan an email.


----------



## georgep

blubliss said:


> bs, IMHO



 


IMO as well.
Plus the KG/009 combos do not even come close to the HD800 in terms of perceived "brightness" (which by the way is also a great headphone, just not for me because of the some of the source material I listen to).


----------



## okw3188

david1961 said:


> I got my SR-009's from PriceJapan and there was a delay when they got to UK customs, but I didn't have a problem with PriceJapan.
> To what I recall, from ordering to PriceJapan sending my 009's took about 3 weeks, but the delay at UK customs seemed to be around 2 or 3 weeks.
> If you're getting concerned, send PriceJapan an email.


I send them a few emails, they are still saying the same thing, not sure when stock is available, if I can't wait , I can opt for a full refund.


----------



## gilency

3x0 said:


> I agree. I don't understand how people cope with KG designs on the SR-009 unless they have older and/or less treble-sensitive ears.
> 
> It's really quite the elephant in the room IMHO.


 
 Now you are trying to create a generational divide? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 Some opinions are just that. Opinions. And this one is non sense.


----------



## 3X0

gilency said:


> Now you are trying to create a generational divide? :rolleyes:
> Some opinions are just that. Opinions. And this one is non sense.


Oh, please. :rolleyes:

Even dude_500 remarked on the perceived brightness of the one of the KG designs with the SR-009, and he's designed some very well-voiced DIY-statics.

It's not an uncommon sentiment, but given the vitriolic reflexes that tend to be the order of the day when such estimations are expressed, it's certainly an "unpopular" one. The defensive reflex is no less silly than the facetious nature of my remark, albeit in a different way.

The KG designs are best suited to the SR-007. I actually really like them with the Mk1.


----------



## kothganesh

3x0 said:


> ...........
> 
> The KG designs are best suited to the SR-007. I actually really like them with the Mk1.



I have not heard the 009 but your remark (and similar opinions) makes me feel great about my recent KGSSHV purchase. That with my 007 mk1 just makes for engrossing musical listening sessions.


----------



## gilency

3x0 said:


> Oh, please.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The idea that KG amps are bright is held by some, but is not a consensus, and many feel otherwise.
 The 009 does just fine (actually quite nicely) with the KGSSHV and KGSS, as well as the BH


----------



## paradoxper

kothganesh said:


> I have not heard the 009 but your remark (and similar opinions) makes me feel great about my recent KGSSHV purchase. That with my 007 mk1 just makes for engrossing musical listening sessions.


 
 Now the 009 and KGSSHV is an engrossing pairing!


----------



## 3X0

gilency said:


> *The idea that KG amps are bright is held by some, but is not a consensus, and many feel otherwise.*
> The 009 does just fine (actually quite nicely) with the KGSSHV and KGSS, as well as the BH


 
 Indeed, that's well stated.
  
 I personally find even the Omega to be rather strident on the KGSSHV. It is not to the point of being harsh, but audibly annoying.
  
 That's just for me personally. To frame this into context, I'm a rather young lad with treble sensitivity who finds the stock HD 800 intolerable. To make my admittedly flippant prior remark (re: generation gaps) sound a little more reasonable, I don't know of a gentleman who enjoys the SR-009 + KGSSHV pairing that's not younger than their late 30s or so -- presbycusis?
  
 It would be rather brazen of me to suggest that the sample size isn't tiny though -- after all, well-aged gentleman are typically the population who are inclined to drop the coin on these amplifiers to begin with whereas whippersnappers (like myself) are busy pinching their pennies.
  
 Again, I prefer the KGSSHV with the SR-007Mk1.


----------



## paradoxper

3x0 said:


> Indeed, that's well stated.
> 
> I personally find even the Omega to be rather strident on the KGSSHV. It is not to the point of being harsh, but audibly annoying.
> 
> ...


 
 That's still pretty generally broad. I find the HD800 rather bright as well, however the mk 1 on the KGSSHV is really no where near bright or annoying.
 Further, the 009 is pretty damn magical and yes, just a tad bright. I'm hoping I'll get use to it because it's no where near as problematic as the HD800.
  
 Oh yea, I'm 24 btw. So now you know someone 'of age' that defies your generalization.


----------



## 3X0

paradoxper said:


> That's still pretty generally broad. I find the HD800 rather bright as well, however the mk 1 on the KGSSHV is really no where near bright or annoying.
> Further, the 009 is pretty damn magical and yes, just a tad bright. I'm hoping I'll get use to it because it's no where near as problematic as the HD800.
> 
> Oh yea, I'm 24 btw. So now you know someone 'of age' that defies your generalization.


 
 I don't just find the HD 800 bright, I find it _intolerable_.
  
 The Mk1 on the KGSSHV is very good. I never suggested it being bright.
  
 Yes, the SR-009 isn't as bad as the HD 800. It doesn't have to be bright -- I've heard it rather agreeable sometimes.
  
 Thanks for that counterpoint. Have you tried the SR-009 on, say, the EC Electra?


----------



## paradoxper

That is, the SR-009 with the KGSSHV is not a problem, which you adamantly disagree with. Comparative to the mk 1, for example, yea, it's a tad bright. However compare that to the HD800 it's really nothing.
  
 I might have some thick ears because I somewhat enjoyed certain aspects of the HD800 with Mojo/Gun so I know bright.
  
 I've heard good things about the Electra, however I haven't heard it. I'd probably stick with KG designs i.e. BHSE.


----------



## project86

I've only had my KGSShv for a short time but so far I don't find it bright. Well extended? Definitely. Not colored or mushy or smoothed over? Nope, none of those. I love it with my 007. I definitely hear the improvement over the various Stax amps I've recently tried (including 727, 007t, 323, SRA-12S, and 600LTD) as well as the WES and original Liquid Lightning. KGSShv is on a completely different level compared to those models imho. 
  
 The 009 is an amazing headphone (earspeaker?) but I _do _find it a little bright for my taste. Consequently, I could see wanting to run it with a slightly smoother amp. I'm not really sure what amp that might be though.... The WES with the right tubes would do the job to some degree but it kinda falls apart with certain music in my experience.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

3x0 said:


> Indeed, that's well stated.
> 
> I don't know of a gentleman who enjoys the SR-009 + KGSSHV pairing that's not younger than their late 30s or so -- presbycusis?




I don't fit the generalization either I'm 31 and I don't mind my 009/kgbh combo's amount of high freqs. I mean if the source material is strident, it's certainly not going to change that and I would reach my mk1.
I had a lot of younger people than me listen to my rig at the NC meet a few weeks back too and none complained about the kg amp and 009 being overly bright, well at least to me anyway


----------



## wink

I think that if people stood near a piano or violin played with gusto that they would find them overly bright at times if they were sensitive to treble.
  
 If the amp and the headphones accurately reproduce that level of sound, they naturally tend to blame the amp, headphone or both rather than the source material as the problem area.


----------



## georgep

3x0 said:


> ....
> 
> I personally find even the Omega to be rather strident on the KGSSHV. It is not to the point of being harsh, but audibly annoying.
> 
> That's just for me personally. .....



 


Then you can safey save your money as the 009 sounds quite similar in the top end on the the T2 as it does on the KGSSHV. I therefore doubt you would enjoy your Omega (which has been reputed by some to have a somewhat bright top end when properly amped) on the T2 either. But I normally listen at low volume levels (where people around me cannot hear anything coming from the headphones), whether it be the 007MKI or 009.

What i normally find is the problem when I can't stand listening (at higher volumes) is the source material (or the source), is not well suited to listening with headphones.


----------



## 3X0

wink said:


> I think that if people stood near a piano or violin played with gusto that they would find them overly bright at times if they were sensitive to treble.


 
 Yes, the violin has harmonics that extend into the top of our threshold of hearing.
  
 I would be curious, again, to see a comparison of the measurements of the SR-007 and SR-009 from the SRM-T1, SRM-717, KGSSHV, BHSE, ECE, et alia. Realistically I'm only concerned about the linear and nonlinear performance above 1KHz as the higher registers have been my only pain point with the KGSSHV.
  
 Such would help me better understand what I perceive. It's quite possible the Omega off "lesser" amplifiers has diminished performance in the upper registers that I find desirable for my listening needs. I would be comfortable with that outcome.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

wink said:


> I think that if people stood near a piano or violin played with gusto that they would find them overly bright at times if they were sensitive to treble.
> 
> If the amp and the headphones accurately reproduce that level of sound, they naturally tend to blame the amp, headphone or both rather than the source material as the problem area.


 

 Very true. Sharpness / brightness can be a desired part of a record if the musician and/or engineer wants it to be there.


----------



## arnaud

Age is probably not the answer. Listening preference (music type and volume) probably is. 

Also, someone with hyperacousis (could be in his/her 20s/30s/40s and this is becoming a very popular disease) would certainly not enjoy an hd800 or sr009 at moderate/high volume level, nor could they stand nearby a real trumpet for very long.

Arnaud


----------



## n3rdling

It's a mental thing.  Ever notice how the best performing amplifiers (i.e. can't knock them for their technical prowess) are only described as 'bright'?  Can't think of any labeled as 'dark'. 
  
 I don't like amps described as bright or dark since it doesn't make sense to me...I think it depends on the load interaction between headphone and amp.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

n3rdling said:


> It's a mental thing.  Ever notice how the best performing amplifiers (i.e. can't knock them for their technical prowess) are only described as 'bright'?  Can't think of any labeled as 'dark'.
> 
> I don't like amps described as bright or dark since it doesn't make sense to me...I think it depends on the load interaction between headphone and amp.


 
 Boom headshot.


----------



## 3X0

n3rdling said:


> It's a mental thing.  Ever notice how the best performing amplifiers (i.e. can't knock them for their technical prowess) are only described as 'bright'?  Can't think of any labeled as 'dark'.
> 
> I don't like amps described as bright or dark since it doesn't make sense to me...I think it depends on the load interaction between headphone and amp.


 
 I've always wondered what Stax is using for voicing behind-the-scenes.
  
 The only option in their pedigree that would be ostensibly comparable to aftermarket solutions would be the SRM-T2 but I can't fathom them maintaining a unit in-house for that long and making R&D/voicing judgments with it.
  
*If* (big if) one were to determine with complete certainty that the SR-009 was voiced with the SRM-727 for example, it would make a bit more sense. For one, the pairing doesn't have particularly offensive treble. Additionally, they still sell the SRM-727 so it would be sensible from a business standpoint as well  In other words since the SRM-T2 is long gone now, it wouldn't make sense for them to design products with it when it no longer represents a viable source of additional revenue.
  
 I have no idea if this was covered or disclosed in the Stax interview.


----------



## gilency

I go to plenty of live classical music performances, either orchestral, piano or chamber music.
 To my ears, the 009 is the closest thing to being there and that is my comparison, rather than amplifier to amplifier.
 Classical music up close, including violin and piano can be quite loud, and yes, at times strident. Try some Brahms or Shostakovich if you are close to the performers.


----------



## n3rdling

3x0 said:


> I've always wondered what Stax is using for voicing behind-the-scenes.
> 
> The only option in their pedigree that would be ostensibly comparable to aftermarket solutions would be the SRM-T2 but I can't fathom them maintaining a unit in-house for that long and making R&D/voicing judgments with it.
> 
> ...


 
 Arnaud or Currawong would know as that was one of the questions in the Stax interview.  I think they use the 727 and 007t but I'm not completely sure.


----------



## georgep

And before that, according to the interview write-up, they used the T1. But they also suggest they design the headphone from a technical perspective first, and then add the amp later to field test to verify - so I didn't get the sense that they "voice" their headphones to any particular amp. I also seem to recall that they don't restrict their listening to the base amps when developing new HPs, but I can't sift through the various threads that it could have been stated in, so is best left to one of the authors/interviewers involved to clarify.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

3x0 said:


> I personally find even the Omega to be rather strident on the KGSSHV. It is not to the point of being harsh, but audibly annoying.
> 
> That's just for me personally. To frame this into context, I'm a rather young lad with treble sensitivity who finds the stock HD 800 intolerable. To make my admittedly flippant prior remark (re: generation gaps) sound a little more reasonable, I don't know of a gentleman who enjoys the SR-009 + KGSSHV pairing that's not younger than their late 30s or so -- presbycusis?
> >



 


Im 25 and I dont have any problems with the HV with the 009s, I think it sounds pretty excellent. The treble might be a bit more present than some other high end cans, but never once did i ever think it was too bright or even close to painful of any sort. the treble is so smooth on the 009s...


----------



## johangrb

^^ - second this. My 009 sounds close to perfection on my KGSSHV - definitely no strident highs. (Though I've heard it even better on a BHSE).
  
 (But then, I never found the HD800 to be harsh as well. I love the HD800s with my current B22 (4channel balanced), and I've heard it even better on the GSX MKii).
  
 As usual - YMMV (variables include source, clean power, cabling etc.)


----------



## zerodeefex

Full disclosure: I currently use modded HD800s out of a 2A3 MKIV.
  
 However, I'd like to second what 3X0 is saying. I've spent a bit of time with the 009s on the KGSSHV and the treble really turned me off. I actually lived with the 007 mk1 + KGSSHV for a while and then sold the whole kit n kaboodle. During my period of ownership I had a chance to demo the 009s extensively several times and I walked away every time preferring the SR-007 MK1s.
  
 My reference point is multiple series annually at Davies Symphony Hall for years and years. I actually got to hear the amazing MTT/SFS Mahler cycle in person and I use those recordings quite a bit in my evaluation of gear because even after more than a decade, I still remember the experience vividly.


----------



## David1961

Since using the Psvane EL34PH's with my BHSE, my 009's sound unbelievably good, in fact I'm not that bothered about listening to anything else. I also have the LCD-XC's which I use with my GS-Xmk2, but I hardly listen to that combo since using the PH's.
That wasn't the case when I was using the stock Mullard's and SED's with my BHSE, at that time I was listening to my LCD-XC / GS-X more than my 009 / BHSE.

While using both the stock Mullard's and SED's, my 009's sounded bright, but with the PH's I find there's no such problem, just headphone bliss.


----------



## n3rdling

zerodeefex said:


> I currently use modded HD800s


 


> 009s on the KGSSHV and the treble really turned me off.


 
 Something doesn't add up.


----------



## David1961

n3rdling said:


> zerodeefex said:
> 
> 
> > I currently use modded HD800s
> ...




I agree.


----------



## yawg

jaycalgary said:


> I just bought a pair of Stax DA100M amps from Japan fairly blind. Looks to me like some of the Rca jacks were replaced at some point. Hoping they will be in good working modern condition. I can't make total sense of the Japanese translation but it sounded to me like I bought a pair in good working condition from probably a reseller with 1 slightly bent speaker jack. I bought off Buyee. Would somebody that understands Japanese well mind taking a look at the Buyee link and or the Yahoo link and briefly help me understand how it was described and if the seller seems like he would really know if they work properly? I am just really curious not that it make a difference now. I am thinking they will be amps for Apogee ribbon speakers one day.
> 
> http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/k171454526    http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k171454526


 

 Hi Jay, it would be a good idea to check for weak soldering points. I got my pair about 10 years ago with one not working. It was only a bad solder joint. These babies get quite hot and switching them on & off can deteriorate the soldering after some years. Also always replace the smaller elcos, Panasonics are a good replacement.
  
 The DA-100M did great with my Martin Logan CLS IIz until I tried DIY tube monos from a friend later on. They beat the Staxen IMO. Good luck!


----------



## yawg

troymadison said:


> Did you like the LNS better?


 
 I like my LNS even better after I fitted the 507 pads. Although the foam has evaporated and become totally transparent - the drivers are loose but there are no disturbing side effects.


----------



## 3X0

david1961 said:


> I agree.


I wouldn't write off the experiences of others unless you've had personal experience with the pairing. When the HD 800 is modified (properly), the result has audibly reduced treble response that has been confirmed by measurement. This is subjective listening corroborated by objective measurement, whereas the availability of the latter in Stax pairings has been relatively lacking.

Given the SR-009 was designed with the SRM-T1 and SRM-727, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it had more treble energy with the KGSSHV than modded HD 800s.

I don't doubt the SR-007 being at least tested with the SRM-717 given how comparatively well it does with the KG designs (besides being bundled with the 717 as a system). Conjecture though.


----------



## complin

The 009's are know to be "brighter" than the previous Stax range But not as bright as the HD800. Personally I don't find the mods so far that really fix the issue. With both headphones being so revealing its not clear to me that its always the headphone at fault, often I find its the source material(recording) or DAC.
 I have both and the 800's are by far the pickiest headphone I have ever owned in 40 years in this hobby.  
  
 I too am a frequent live music goer but we are fooling ourselves if we think that many modern recordings approach anything like a live performance. What with modern production techniques, close mic-ing of instruments and the engineers interpretation he lays down for us to hear later then ...............   
 I suggest you give this a watch* http://www.head-fi.org/t/661545/rmaf-2012-just-how-absolute-is-recorded-sound*
  
 Personally I don't find any of the KG amplifiers bright, quite the contrary although I do know some manufacturers voice their amplifiers in a particular direction which I feel is the wrong approach, it should be a neutral device as far as possible, unless you opt for tube or op amp rolling!   
  
 Quote:


zerodeefex said:


> Full disclosure: I currently use modded HD800s out of a 2A3 MKIV.
> 
> However, I'd like to second what 3X0 is saying. I've spent a bit of time with the 009s on the KGSSHV and the treble really turned me off. I actually lived with the 007 mk1 + KGSSHV for a while and then sold the whole kit n kaboodle. During my period of ownership I had a chance to demo the 009s extensively several times and I walked away every time preferring the SR-007 MK1s.
> 
> My reference point is multiple series annually at Davies Symphony Hall for years and years. I actually got to hear the amazing MTT/SFS Mahler cycle in person and I use those recordings quite a bit in my evaluation of gear because even after more than a decade, I still remember the experience vividly.


----------



## cat6man

rgs9200m said:


> All I need is my stock 007t/ii amp with my RCA cleartops and some Cardas Golden Cross interconnects and some old warmish-sounding Shunyata power cables and the sound is remarkable, unlike any other headphone I have heard in terms of
> resolution, insight, and speed, all without fatigue or pain. The bass is wonderful, reasonably deep and with nice impact and the whole frequency spectrum is very well balanced from top to bottom. And if I could do this with my amp, I think the other amps are worthy of more thorough experimentation.
> 
> (I have moved on to some great Stealth interconnects and a very good power conditioner, but these were more icing on the cake, and not truly necessary.)


 
  
 Hi there,
  
 Can you share more on the parenthetical "icing on the cake" part please?
  
 I'm currently down the rabbit hole, looking up, and optimizing my streamer==>DAC==>BHSE==>009 system, with psvane and stock tubes.
 I have 'meh' cables right now (belkin usb, low end audioquest balanced interconnects) and just took the PSAudio power conditioner out of the loop to get back to a baseline.


----------



## 3X0

I think n3rdling also summarized it rather well that perceived brightness might actually be the product of neutral amplification, in which case it might be argued that the KG amps are objectively closer to ideal.

The amplifier's interaction with the load might affect the perceived tonal balance. This might explain why I prefer the tonal balance of the SR-009 with "lesser" amps. Hard to say without measurements (amp+load, measured at transducer) to corroborate.

You bring up an excellent point with regards to recordings. From venue to our ears we're playing two rounds of telephone, and it's possible some pairings might sound closer to reality (i. e. closing the gap to the actual performance at the venue) for some styles and quality grades of recordings than others.


----------



## David1961

3x0 said:


> david1961 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree.
> ...




I guess I shouldn't have been agreeing because I've never heard a modified HD-800, in fact I have only heard the HD-800 for a short time, I've also never heard the 009's driven by the KGSSHV, but some posts I've read are saying both headphones sound bright which I suppose was the reason I wrote " I agree".
I think in future I'll just stick to comments about the headphones / amps I've had a lot of listening time with, my apologies.


----------



## complin

Actually the "loading" you refer to IS an issue with dynamics as they are sensitive to the output impedance of the amplifier and to some extent the resistance of the cable.
 However this is a non issue with a properly designed electrostatics amplifier as the headphones present a very different capacitive load, represented by the electrostatic headphone's stators and its cable.
  
 Quote:


3x0 said:


> The amplifier's interaction with the load might affect the perceived tonal balance. This might explain why I prefer the tonal balance of the SR-009 with "lesser" amps. Hard to say without measurements (amp+load, measured at transducer) to corroborate.


----------



## purrin

> Originally Posted by *n3rdling* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's a matter of word selection and personal meaning attributed to those words. The modded HD800 (the latest mods) do a lot to tame the treble, but it's still a slightly bright headphone if we look at the treble in relation to the midrange. However, the HD800 isn't as "lean" as the SR-007 if we consider the mid/high bass region in relation to the mids. Measurements not withstanding, and assuming a good seal, the SR-009 appears to lose energy, just slightly - a few db, as we move down to 20Hz. Not really a big deal.
  
 I never thought the SR-009 and KGSSHV (or T2DIY) combo was "bright" with the sources and recodings I used. However, I can certainly see people finding the SR-009/KGSSHV overly analytical, too etched, or too edgy (which is separate from brightness) depending upon source and recordings used. Combined with the fact that the SR-009 doesn't have the HD800's broad mid/high bass bump, all these factors could certainly contribute to people finding the KGSSHV setup "bright". As a saide note, the combo that I found painfully etched and strident was the SR-009 + Headamp BHSE (not to be confused with n3rdlings BH) + Oppo (SABRE) regardless of recording. (the BHSE has always seemed "brighter" to the KGSS/HV builds I have heard)
  
 There's not much current choice anyways. Just pick your poison. KGSS/HV, LL2, WES, SR727. Or get the Aristaeus if you can get Justin to build one for you. Whatever strokes folks weiners.


----------



## 3X0

complin said:


>


 
 Yes. The hypothesis frequently posited is that the Stax-branded amplifiers (besides the 717, 727, and maybe the 323S [?]) tend to be less consistent performers in driving a "challenging" load (the SR-007Mk1 is frequently the load brought into example).
  
 If this is true and the SR-009 was evaluated in development with a Stax amplifier that couldn't handle the load, it could have some interesting implications for the performance of the unit on amplifiers that can vis-a-vis the performance intentions of the engineers behind it...
  


purrin said:


> *It's a matter of word selection and personal meaning attributed to those words.*
> 
> I never thought the SR-009 and KGSSHV (or T2DIY) combo was "bright" with the sources and recodings I used. However, I can certainly see people finding the SR-009/KGSSHV overly analytical, too etched, or too edgy (which is separate from brightness) depending upon source and recordings used. Combined with the fact that the SR-009 doesn't have the HD800's broad mid/high bass bump, all these factors could certainly contribute to people finding the KGSSHV setup "bright". As a saide note, the combo that I found painfully etched and strident was the SR-009 + Headamp BHSE (not to be confused with n3rdlings BH) + Oppo (SABRE) regardless of recording. (the BHSE has always seemed "brighter" to the KGSS/HV builds I have heard)


 
 That's a fair assessment. Translating perceived perceptions into relatable auditory lexicon will continue to be a pain point. Audio linguistics can be challenging when one man's musical is another man's mellow, et al.


----------



## Lan647

Working (and sounding) beautifully!


----------



## georgep

3x0 said:


> I wouldn't write off the experiences of others unless you've had personal experience with the pairing. When the HD 800 is modified (properly), the result has audibly reduced treble response that has been confirmed by measurement. This is subjective listening corroborated by objective measurement, whereas the availability of the latter in Stax pairings has been relatively lacking.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Actually, I don't think it is clear, at least from the interview, that Stax "voice" their headphones to any particular amp. The Stax folk appeared to be saying that they make their designs in isolation to be the best possible HP or amp they could possibly make from a technical perspective, then they test them - some fail and some pass.

Also, the inference from the interview is the when the Omega was designed, the T1 woulld also have been the test amp (not the T2) - which is interesting considering most Omega users would not choose the T1 as a good amp for the phones.


----------



## 3X0

georgep said:


> Actually, I don't think it is clear, at least from the interview, that Stax "voice" their headphones to any particular amp. The Stax folk appeared to be saying that they make their designs in isolation to be the best possible HP or amp they could possibly make from a technical perspective, then they test them - some fail and some pass.
> 
> Also, the inference from the interview is the when the Omega was designed, the T1 woulld also have been the test amp (not the T2) - which is interesting considering most Omega users would not choose the T1 as a good amp for the phones.


 
 That's the snafu. If they're trying to make their headphones the best in isolation from a technical perspective, they _have_ to test them. I would question the notion that aspects such as the stator design,spacing, diaphragm material, et cetera were conjectured by technical hypotheses or experiential guesswork without proofs.
  
 I don't mean they are "voiced" in a strict sense, but certainly evaluation of their design decisions must derive from pairing what they have available as a system.
  
 I also wouldn't discount the possibility of some hush-hush or lost-in-translation elements from the interview. They are a weird company.


----------



## georgep

3x0 said:


> That's the snafu. If they're trying to make their headphones the best in isolation from a technical perspective, they _have_ to test them. I would question the notion that aspects such as the stator design,spacing, diaphragm material, et cetera were conjectured by technical hypotheses or experiential guesswork without proofs.
> 
> I don't mean they are "voiced" in a strict sense, but certainly evaluation of their design decisions must derive from pairing what they have available as a system.
> 
> I also wouldn't discount the possibility of some hush-hush or lost-in-translation elements from the interview. They are a weird company.



 


I expect that the "proofs" occur when the headphone is plugged in to the amp, prior to that the design can only be based on their technical expertise and experience. Maybe its time for a follow-up interview - volunteers?


----------



## arnaud

georgep said:


> 3x0 said:
> 
> 
> > That's the snafu. If they're trying to make their headphones the best in isolation from a technical perspective, they _have_ to test them. I would question the notion that aspects such as the stator design,spacing, diaphragm material, et cetera were conjectured by technical hypotheses or experiential guesswork without proofs.
> ...


 
  
 I think there's what can be said during an interview and whatever happens behind closed doors. We were not allowed to take a pick into the laboratory, Spritzer was suggesting Stax was naturally using many kind of amps, including non-production stuff but that's not what they told us.
  
 I think the answer is probably somewhere in the middle: Stax is certainly keen on producing earspeakers that are easier to drive / sound good out of current production amps. Stax is also always on the look out for improved performance, they did start to work on a successor to the T2 for instance (although seemed to be on hold as of last time we talked).
  
 I will talk to Stax people this week end during the headphone festival, will report here as usual, but don't expect much news I am afraid...


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Though you're saying there isn't much to expect from this forthcoming talk, you're creating a lot of expectations by writing about it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## rgs9200m

cat6man said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Can you share more on the parenthetical "icing on the cake" part please?
> 
> ...


 
 Over the years with testing a number of high end cables in speaker and headphone systems, I ended up really liking the Stealth Indra and Sakra cables, especially in the bass, where there is a transparency that I haven't heard in any other cables.
 They also seem to remove some level pain from the upper highs, making them rounder and fuller. I tried this on several speakers like Khama 3.2s and Harbeth SHL5s and SF Cremona Auditors.
 But they are neutral cables, and in some situations, I like Cardas Golden Cross ICs to subdue, maybe even roll-off, the highs. The Cardas is refined and still keeps things tight and controlled, and just sounds musical.
 Synergistic Research cables are also nice, but not as refined as the others.
  
 For some reason, I like RCA over XLR ICs on my 007t / SR009 combo (more mellow).
  
 My favorite power cable for digital is the older Shunyata Anaconda VX  (still around used sometimes on audiogon) (the Anaconda Alpha Helix from later on is also very good).
 The Shunyata power conditioners also remove fatigue in all systems I have tried. The Hydra 8 and especially the Triton are what I like.
 I didn't like the PS power conditioner (regenerator) I tried -- it was too hyped up. (A PS300, but that was 10 yrs ago.)


----------



## astrostar59

Lots of talk about the 009s being bright here, and even brighter on the BHSE.

I will soon hear for myself next week, as I am visiting a Head-Fi-er to hear the 009s and BHSE but also directly compare my 007Mk2s and the BHSE
and my SRM-717 powering the 009s.

Ahead of the evaluation, I am convinced the 007s were designed on purpose to tame the current trend of modern DACs to be very detailed
and leaning towards a brighter balance. I abandoned Delta-Sigma DACs to move over to NOS tubed DACs for this same bright and possibly
solid state sound? Maybe I wouldn't go so far as saying treble etch, or digital edge? But I certainly fell out with many solid state DAC designs
and solid state amps for my speaker set up.

I wonder why Justin dropped the KGSSHV product in favour of the EL34 tube route? Solid state can sound great, accurate, exciting. Maybe it is
too much of that with a solid state front end (DAC and possibly a pre-amp) into a solid state headphone amp with truly revealing headphones?

At a live gig we keep talking about, we are live yes, BUT we are set back behind people and seats (normally). In a classical theatre the design
of the space leans towards a warm sound by the nature of the environment. In a rock concert, we are again amongst people and other energy
absorbing items. These all act as filters or subtle screens i.e delays in sound and softening of edges to the sound.

With phones like the 009s we now have a direct wire if you like, to the drum, the guitar or the human voice, as though we are on stage?
It is no wonder the upstream gear is critical. Is it the 009s remove all the layers, and leave the whole for all to hear. If it's bright,
then it is the fault of the gear driving it. The response of the 009 is very flat right? And the transducers very fast, faster than any other speaker?

So, my idea is to have a balanced system, we might need either tubes in the mix or a warm DAC with the 009s.

I don't know yet, but hope to know next week. 

I might hazard a guess that some (including Spritzer) may have solid state detailed (cold?) sounding DACs that just don't gell
with the 009s. Maybe the happy 009 users are using tube rolling to bring back a small amount of warmth or organic feel to
the music? Just enough to them make a match in heaven - detail and warmth. Possibly a great amp (and a great headphone) can be truly great,
and system match the rest of the gear upstream and downstream with careful tube selection / cables and even software (not EQ software).

I wouldn't try and use mellow sounding tubes with my 007s for example, as they are already heading that way. I kinda like that, but only
subtle. Not too dark or obvious, just enough to make the music sound real for my tastes.

It's a fascinating subject, and expensive if we get it wrong.... thoughts invited!


----------



## gilency

OK. you are saying Stax messed up their drivers on purpose so that they don't sound too bad with current DACs?
And that Spritzer has poor sounding DAC's?
mmhhhhhh......
And Justin never sold the KGSSHV.
And electrons dont care whether cables are pretty or not.


----------



## NoPants

pretty sure stax thinks they got it right, where "right" just happens to align with the modern perspective that an accentuated treble presence implies a "detailed and analytic" sound
  
 iirc spritzer owns an MSB platinum III? That DAC is clearly garbage
  
 I don't care much for cables either but if people want to play with them it's their prerogative. I certainly like the way ribbon cables look so I intend on purchasing some fancy ones when I run out of things to tweak on the component side


----------



## David1961

I think Justin did the KGSS Julian ( which I believe he no longer does ). 
IMO the proof with anything in audio is in the listening, which is why when you visit my place next week Julian, we're going to try both your 007mk2's and my 009's with the BHSE, but first with the stock Mullard's, and then the PH's. 
I've a feeling the 007mk2's will sound better with the stock Mullard's, but time will tell.


----------



## astrostar59

> OK. you are saying Stax messed up their drivers on purpose so that they don't sound too bad with current DACs?
> And that Spritzer has poor sounding DAC's?
> mmhhhhhh......
> And Justin never sold the KGSSHV.
> ...




Get up to speed please!!!!

http://www.headamp.com/electrostat_amps/kgss/

And are we saying NO interconnects affect the sound now! You need to clean your ears..

I think as we can read from many posts both in the Stax threads, Senn threads and others, many folk at this level begin
to hit the buffers with some issue with treble emphasis or quality. I believe in my own ears, and it is the upper treble that is the last
hurdle, the final part of the sound signature to complete the illusion of live music. I had less of an issue with my vinyl rig going back years,
but I believe that was because
1. It was not digital (that is a whole new subject)
2. The Frequency response was kinder to the ears (tailed off in the upper treble)
3. Had a warmer (welcome to my Stax gear) sound signature

I think headfiers may be more aware of these potential problems than audiophile guys with top tier speaker systems.
Remember, the room and furnishings, speaker placement, all these help to tame and control the SQ to an extent.
And playing music in a room at 'normal' domestic levels is not as in your face as what I would call 'near field' level of sound
through phones, even at normal (safe) listening levels. It's a bit like sticking your head real close to your speakers tweeter.
Doesn't sound so hot does it?

We don't have that 'luxury' so it can be a curse, or a benefit however you want to see it. For those who have built a balanced set of components
that gel together (system synergy) they are very happy indeed. That is my goal of this hobby, and why it interests me so much.
All the components affect the SQ.

I DO believe the 007s were Stax's answer to the lack of bass on the long running Lambda series. Nobody could argue with the mid range, though
the treble edge of my Lambda's over the years emphasised digital edge which was not a good combination.

Companies make products to suit what people want, and yes, it is AMAZING Stax may have made the 007 knowing it had -5db treble drop.
How many v shaped (expensive) IE phones do that? A company not listening to their customers, or at least dealers,
making products that are not selling is going to fail right?

I accept the 007s treble drop, it is it's character and personality. It also allows it to sound good on lower quality front ends.
To me, it was the first Stax phone to have decent bass as a catch up to the better dynamics, without me loosing my love of that midrange
magic of electros.


----------



## TheAttorney

astrostar59 said:


> Get up to speed please!!!!
> 
> http://www.headamp.com/electrostat_amps/kgss/


 
 Er no! gilency is correct that Justin never sold a KGSSHV.
  
 The link you're looking at is the old KGSS without the HV. I know it's only two letters difference, but it matters sometimes


----------



## gilency

.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

I don't know what has been happening here of late. But there is a lot of bs being thrown around. Lots of very experienced voices here, and then the others. Dial it In. Boring read.


----------



## Crashem

astrostar59 said:


> Get up to speed please!!!!
> 
> http://www.headamp.com/electrostat_amps/kgss/
> 
> ...


 
  
 You know you were commenting back to the designer of both the KGSS and KGSSHV?  KGSS=Kevin Gilmore Solid State=gilency.  I think you need to get up to speed.  As for your other comments, I'll point out to you that Kevin Gilmore is one of the leading designers of electrostatic amps (think blue hawaii/kgss/kgsshv/etc.) and headphone amps in general.  While you may disagree with some of what he says, I doubt you should try to lecture him.  His knowledge on the space is likely 10x or more than yours.


----------



## complin

Quote:


nopants said:


> pretty sure stax thinks they got it right, where "right" just happens to align with the modern perspective that an accentuated treble presence implies a "detailed and analytic" sound
> So what about the Sony Qualia 010 then introduced 2004 ? I have some vintage AKG K240 they are bright too introduced 40 years ago!
> 
> iirc spritzer owns an MSB platinum III? That DAC is clearly garbage
> ...


----------



## RiStaR

Lots of funny stuff in just the last few posts. Funny how everyone trying to correct everyone isn't really clear themselves or understand sarcasm...


----------



## complin

Well if it was intended as sarcasm afraid it flew right over my head 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If I were making such comments then I would append .......


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Just kidding 


 Quote:


ristar said:


> Lots of funny stuff in just the last few posts. Funny how everyone trying to correct everyone isn't really clear themselves or understand sarcasm...


----------



## paradoxper

astrostar59 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You're kind of an idiot - that is badly informed, dude.


----------



## complin

A bit strong ... more badly informed
  
 Quote:


paradoxper said:


> You're kind of an idiot, dude.


----------



## zolkis

It's funny how much battle is going on about amps, cables, sound signature compensations etc, but there is much less talk about properly tuning the variable parts of the headphones, i.e. ear pads, headband, and internal lining/filling where it applies. This is also true with (electrodynamic) speakers.
  
 Perhaps because positive experiences with tuning speakers in the past, I couldn't help tweaking further the ear pads of the 007.
 After trying a variety of materials _inside_ the pads, it was shocking how different they all sounded - much bigger differences than between amps. Will post a report with pictures soon, but the good news first: I ended up with an ear pad mod that makes the 007 Mk1 sound quite much more open, with much bigger sound stage, and also with more defined and snappier bass (or another option for lush, wet, softer bass lines a la old reel tape players, depending on your taste). In parallel, I have also experimented with the TH900 with the goal to get the mids work better - and I have very good news there, too.
  
 Out of the available stock pads for various headphones, the SR Omega and the 009 pads may be the best choice for the 007, but couldn't find any source for them, original or 3rd party - so these remain to be tested.


----------



## astrostar59

Sorry, I see that. KGSS I meant, my correction. My message was, why has Justin concentrated on the valve route? 
My listening with SS and tubed amps, is I prefer tubes.

SS front end plus SS amps - never found a happy solution.....


----------



## arnaud

astrostar59 said:


> Sorry, I see that. KGSS I meant, my correction. My message was, why has Justin concentrated on the valve route?
> My listening with SS and tubed amps, is I prefer tubes.
> 
> SS front end plus SS amps - never found a happy solution.....




Ahhh, this is getting so annoying! Would you mind doing us all a favor and reading a bit more background info? I don't know, you could start with keywords like "high voltage amplification" or "electrostatic amplifier". It's not like this is the first time evaaa this stuff is discussed.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

paradoxper said:


> You're kind of an idiot - that is badly informed, dude.


Careful man. You can't make personal attacks. You can imply, but just don't say. Lol


----------



## Ali-Pacha

arnaud said:


> Ahhh, this is getting so annoying! Would you mind doing us all a favor and reading a bit more background info? I don't know, you could start with keywords like "high voltage amplification" or "electrostatic amplifier". It's not like this is the first time evaaa this stuff is discussed.


 
 Don't you forget to report your talk with Stax's people 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## n3rdling

That's a ridiculous price...


----------



## takato14

n3rdling said:


> That's a ridiculous price...


----------



## astrostar59

I find this rather odd. For me I listen then I make choices. I don't try or want to get off on who knows how stuff works
better than anyone else. That route leads to a bullying type forum where 2 or 3 folk have the last say.

At the end of the day, we are all here to discover a system (in my case) that sounds right to my ears.
For me that has led me to where I am now. Healthy discussions are great to share, and some love SS others valves,
some get off on classical, others like heavy rock.

Leave the egos alone. Or the forum may head the way many others have IMHO.

There is room for eveyone's view without getting Thor's hammer out.....

Now I'm off to chill out listening to some tunes, which is why I visited this forum in the first place.


----------



## jgazal

arnaud said:


> I will talk to Stax people this week end during the headphone festival, will report here as usual, but don't expect much news I am afraid...


 
  
 Since you are in Japan, you might be interested applying to this lecture at "Center of the History of Japanese Industrial Technology": http://sts.kahaku.go.jp/diversity/lecture/index.php. Maybe nothing new to you, but I bet it is fun.


----------



## SilverEars

I just got a Lambda Pro on SRM-1.  Just like I heard at a meet, trumpet horns are AMAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZING!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 These output horns really well.
  
 Thank you Louie Armstrong.


----------



## zolkis

> Perhaps because positive experiences with tuning speakers in the past, I couldn't help tweaking further the ear pads of the 007.
> After trying a variety of materials _inside_ the pads, it was shocking how different they all sounded - much bigger differences than between amps. Will post a report with pictures soon, but the good news first: I ended up with an ear pad mod that makes the 007 Mk1 sound quite much more open, with much bigger sound stage, and also with more defined and snappier bass (or another option for lush, wet, softer bass lines a la old reel tape players, depending on your taste). In parallel, I have also experimented with the TH900 with the goal to get the mids work better - and I have very good news there, too.
> 
> Out of the available stock pads for various headphones, the SR Omega and the 009 pads may be the best choice for the 007, but couldn't find any source for them, original or 3rd party - so these remain to be tested.


 
  
 Some more details on this.
 Having two sets of brown 007 pads, I decided to destroy modify one of them to imitate the SR Omega pads. During the previous (http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/2040#post_10459375) experiments, I noticed tendencies I wanted to check further. So far, no springs, inner earpad foam front side trimmed ~2 mm, opening made larger cca 4 mm in diameter.
 Now it was time to adjust the leather pad to these, and experiment with various fillings.
  
 Initial state:

  
 Undo the sewing and take off the inner cover (on the right) and the other side of the flank, resulting in 3 parts: the inner cover (below), the inner flank, and rest of the ear pad.
 First, enlarge the opening by cutting a circle: 

  
 The result is circular, rather than the original trimmed circlar shape (this was intended).

  
 Do the same to the other part:

  
 The results so far:

  
 Then, redo the sewing (manually or with a sewing machine, depending on your skills).
 Note that since the inner diameter has been increased, a ~3 cm long leather extension is needed for the flank.
 When sewing, leave the extension part to the end, then cut as it's required and finish the end.
  
 In the next phase, cut new fillings and assemble the ear pads.

 The picture above is just to suggest the thickness in the front.
  
 Next, I experimented with the ear pad fillings. The method was just to push the pads against the drivers (without mounting) and try that way for gross comparison. Then, the winner combinations were tested assembled on the drivers.
  
 I have tried 5 materials for the filling: (a) the original foam, (b) open cell foam, (c) active carbon filter pad (for house ventilation machines , (d) polyester fiber acoustic pad, (e) natural wool felt pads. I ruled out non-carded natural wool filling as it was not practical. The selection was based upon what materials I had at home from earlier speaker tuning, but there may be a lot of materials which sound better than these. One thing to say, there was considerable difference in how did they sound compared to each other:
 - original foam has softer, rounded bass lines, good slam, kind of old reel tape sound
 - open cell foam had somewhat cleaner bass, and it's still foam (easy to deal with and people are used to it)
 - active carbon filter pads increased the effect above, resulting in very spacious, deep, extended, clean bass with superior piano/base strings attack and decay, also making the treble cleaner, and somehow the timing was more consistent over the frequency range, resulting in higher perceived PRAT and resolution
 - polyester pads were OK but nothing special; slightly softer sound but so much as the foams
 - wool felt is tricky, since it depends very much on density, much more than for the rest. I had medium density pads, they took away all boominess and dark signature, but the results were a bit too shiny perhaps. 
 Since the carbon pads were quite stiff, I have put a very thin layer of polyester pad on them, and ended up using this.
 The carbon pads are 14-15 mm thick (angle-trimmed 2 mm in the front), and the poly pad 2-3 mm.
  

  
 I have tested the same things for the TH900, with the same tendencies, and end result, so this seems to be pretty consistent so far. The sound stage with these pads is huge both in width and depth (perhaps higher, too), and pin-point. Saxophone sounds more direct and velvety, as do synth and strings, violin/cello has more physical body, piano is more transparent and resonant - all welcome.
  
 I have tested again using the springs, but again it sounded better without them. However, that is an option to make a darker, more distant sound.
  
 Now my 007's sound the same open as with the previous mod, but with the differences described above with the carbon pads. I am eager to compare it to 009 and other flagships, and will get back in a few weeks with the results.
  
 Meanwhile, if you can source SR Omega and/or SR-009 pads, please notify me, too .


----------



## davidsh

Great, I love modding


----------



## astrostar59

Keep up the modding. If it works I may have a bash myself, though on an older set.

On another subject
A*nyone know what the size of the e-stat market actually is?* How many Stax headphones are made per month for example?

I wonder if the market for them is not promoted enough, has no real sized dealer network and thus the audiophile mainstream
customers are ignorant to the SQ on offer.

It may be a pity huge companies (in head phone world) like Sennheiser have not managed to market such a product in real world
volume. The other side of the market IEM is booming I guess because of the portability aspect.

And if the e-stat market was bigger, had more players, surely the prices would come down as mass production went up?

Dunno. I am not complaining, the SQ of Stax gear is that good I will find the money for it somehow, as do other die hards.
It is an expensive hobby though.


----------



## davidsh

I think people tend to think it's 007, 009 or nothing.
  
 And then I think people are scared of weak bass and slim genre bandwidth along with the amplification requirenments.
  
 Then there's also the looks and the fact that it seems as such a niche product.. And the horror stories of imbalance and stuff.


----------



## SilverEars

davidsh said:


> I think people tend to think it's 007, 009 or nothing.
> 
> And then* I think people are scared of weak bass* and slim genre bandwidth along with the amplification requirements.
> 
> Then there's also the looks and the fact that it seems as such a niche product.. And the horror stories of imbalance and stuff.


 
 Based on my session with Lambada pro, I have to say that bass is just about right.  It's definitely not bassy, but not weak as to the point where tracks that emphasizes bass gets way too little, but yeah, if somebody is a bass head, this is not it(they should go for a closed back).  
  
 I've been hearing Lambda is bright, which is definitely not coming out of SRM-1.  It has right amount of treble, but I think what happens when you raise the volume, everything scales up together, and therefore treble will be much harder to your ears.


----------



## mikek200

davidsh said:


> I think people tend to think it's 007, 009 or nothing.
> 
> And then I think people are scared of weak bass and slim genre bandwidth along with the amplification requirements.
> 
> Then there's also the looks and the fact that it seems as such a niche product.. And the horror stories of imbalance and stuff.


 
 +1 on this ,
 Recently,daildozeofdaly { a guy I never met,or even pm'd},was kind enough to lend me his 009's for a week or so.
 Not so sure many headfiers who are lucky enough to own a $3600.00 pair of headphones would do.
 comparing  a 007a with my 727a { Justin Mod} ,to the 009,brought me into an entire new level of SQ.
 In almost all genres of music ,there was a huge improvement & clarity,I found myself listening to the 009 for 8-10 hours at a clip,totally hearing,instruments ,that I never heard before with my other gear..especially with my classical music.
 I have been around this forum,for a few years,and,although I am no expert-I know what my old cryoed ears tell me,and I have to say-Stax is probably the finest headphones ,if properly amped,there is....
 YMMV.,of course
 So,yes,I agree with Davidsh....
  
 Mike


----------



## Ali-Pacha

davidsh said:


> I think people tend to think it's 007, 009 *+ BHSE* or nothing.


 
 Fixed Your Post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## Lornecherry

Mike, are you saying that the 009 sounded better with the 007a, or your Justin modded 727? The reason I ask, is also have a Justin modded 727 (with Omega 2.5s)...and was wondering if the jump to the 009 is significant with the 727...since it may be a while before a Blue Hawaii finds its way here.


----------



## mikek200

Lornecherry,
  
 IMHO,the 009 is a better headphone  than the 007a,with my current amp
  
 Understand,if I had to live with the 007a & the modded 727-it would not be the end of the world..The 009 is just an incredible headphone,probably the finest I've ever listened to.
  
 Many people have suggested, if I do anymore upgrades,I might wan to consider the Blue Hawaii..but that is another major purchase,and my wife has suggested to me,that,any other major purchases of audio gear,might end in the removal of certain body parts,of mine---if you know what I mean???
  
 I just sold the 007a,and will order the 009 within a few days,and see where this takes me...hopefully I will be end game..LOL.
 I.m always trying to make myself believe that...
  
 Mike


----------



## astrostar59

> Mike, are you saying that the 009 sounded better with the 007a, or your Justin modded 727? The reason I ask, is also have a Justin modded 727 (with Omega 2.5s)...and was wondering if the jump to the 009 is significant with the 727...since it may be a while before a Blue Hawaii finds its way here.




I can help you with this this week. I have the 007s though Mk2.5s and a 717 which is probably very close to your modded 727.
I am to do a big test session with a head-fier comparing my 007s to his 009s plugged into my 717.

His source is different to mine (K-01) as I have a None Oversampling DAC which has tubed output. However the session
will be a very good indicator to me if I want to jump onto the 009s and if the extra detail is not at the expense of faitigue or treble
edge which I really hate.

The signature of my 007s is to my liking right now on my setup, but possibly a bit down in the upper treble. And maybe the bass slam
is a tad loose if played quite loud. I am hoping the extra efficiency and easier to drive 009s will fix that on my 717, and my NOS DAC will
ensure I got any extra treble edge from the extra detail I imagine the 009s will reveal to me.

I am pretty convinced the extra treble detail of the 009s is the blessing and a curse of this leading headphone. It seems folk who have
problems with that may be either very high frequency sensitive and / or have brighter sounding DACs. I have been through the ringer
with DACs and almost abandoned CD replay until I found none oversampling DACs like the Metrum or Audio Note models. For me, the upper
treble quality of digital was always my problem area, I just didn't like it. 

So, just maybe the goal might be get a pair of 009s, and demo a NOS DAC after, to see if it completes the set for you. 

I'll report back here later this week (plus with photos of the gear, BHSE, K-01)


----------



## David1961

I heard the 007mk2's with my BHSE the other week and didn't rate those headphones, however sometime ago I got to hear the 007mk1's with my BHSE and they sounded a lot better, at the time though I was using SED's whereas when listening to the 007mk2's I was using the Psvane PH's.
With you suggesting some photos of the gear we'll be listening to Julian, it would be a good idea to have a photo taken of your 007's and my mod 009's together, one of my Rooms stands could be used for your 007's.
Also a photo of just your 717 and my BHSE ( amp section only ) at the side of each other.


----------



## complin

Oooh Err... Body parts in exchange for audio gear........ now thats a thought  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Quote:


mikek200 said:


> my wife has suggested to me,that,any other major purchases of audio gear,might end in the removal of certain body parts,of mine---if you know what I mean???


----------



## complin

I have been down this route already and come to similar conclusions
 I could not live with the upsampling DAC's either because of the digititus. The problem with stats is that they are so transparent and revealing of all the up stream gear so poor recording or a highly lit up DAC will be immediately noticeable. Personally I went through a number of DAC's and ended up with a NOS DAC too for use with the 007MK1. The upsampling/oversampling versions I tried just sounded mechanical and artificial. I think if you are prepared to spend huge sums on an upsampler then they can be very good but I would find it very difficult to justify the cost of upwards of $30,000! Finally I tried both the Audio Note and Metrum and settled for the latter. I would love to have the opportunity to try the TotalDAC and the MSB Platinum as both of these are ladder DAC's.
     
 Having both the 007mk1 and the 009 in terms of amplification requirements they do differ considerably. The 007 Mk1 really needs a lot of power/voltage to make it swing and come to life. The BHSE is an ideal amp for this purpose so there should be a significant improvement overall from a stock Stax amp. In comparison the 009 is relatively easy to drive for example I was listening to it on my little Stax 252 amp last night as I couldn't be bothered to fire up the valve rig, and it was producing excellent sound and impressive bass for such a cheap power source! 
  
 The 009 in comparison to the 007Mk1 is much more lit up. Im not sure I would necessarily describe it as bright (unless the recording is that way inclined), not like the Sennheiser HD800's which sometimes catches you out really impinges painfully on the treble end of the hearing!! The 009 certainly improves in some areas over the 007 like extended frequency extremes and soundstage. Its really difficult to describe verbally how the 007Mk1 compares to 009. Some say its a dark sounding headphone, personally I wouldn't describe it that way. Its more that it doesn't draw attention to itself with exaggerated bass or lit up treble. Its a very organic, natural and integrated sound, not the immediate wow factor but the more you listen the more you realise just how great a headphone it is IMHO. Personally i'm not that keen on the stock 007Mk11 but I believe Spritzer came up with some small reversible mods (port blocking, pads etc) to improve the sound to be similar to the MK1.
 Just to complicate matters both the 007Mk1's and MK11's appear to have had different generations of Stax drivers throughout their manufacturing lifecycle, so early and late versions won't necessarily sound and perform with an amplifier in the same way which could account for some of the differences in opinion regarding amplification. I don't think Stax have put this information in the public domain so it largely been pieced together by enthusiasts, so mainly anecdotal.  
  
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> I can help you with this this week. I have the 007s though Mk2.5s and a 717 which is probably very close to your modded 727.
> I am to do a big test session with a head-fier comparing my 007s to his 009s plugged into my 717.
> 
> His source is different to mine (K-01) as I have a None Oversampling DAC which has tubed output. However the session
> ...


----------



## rawrster

So I had quite the scare this weekend. I came home from work and found out my Stax setup wasn't responding when I pressed play. After some panic I found out it was the dac. I don't think it's too serious as it turns on and led inside the dac turns on but I'm going to contact a local audio repair shop and get an estimated quote. I might also see if they can upgrade the chassis to something higher quality while I'm at it.


----------



## mikek200

I thought it was an "RCA" wire


----------



## rawrster

I bought a rca to mini to see if it was the dac or my amp/headphones as the only other dac I own is a Concero HP. I connected that to my SRM717 which did look a bit silly considering how small that is compared to the amp. 
  
 I'm not too worried about it. The original builder is a well known DIY'er and willing to take a look at it if I want to do overseas shipping which I'm not sure about yet since shipping alone will be over $100 round trip. A local audio hifi repair shop will be able to give me a quote so I'll see if it's worth it from there.


----------



## mikek200

Excellent,
 Your still welcome to do any further testing on my setup,if needed.-ok?
  
 Mike


----------



## Mr.Sneis

I feel sleazy for saying this but just when I thought I've gotten my rig finally dialed in I go and get bitten by the Stax bug pretty hard to the point that I'm letting go of a big chunk of my dynamic rig.    If anyone's looking for a Headamp KGSS in DX size please let me know!


----------



## mikek200

mr.sneis said:


> I feel sleazy for saying this but just when I thought I've gotten my rig finally dialed in I go and get bitten by the Stax bug pretty hard to the point that I'm letting go of a big chunk of my dynamic rig.    If anyone's looking for a Headamp KGSS in DX size please let me know!


 
 LOL,Join the club
 I sold every HP & amp I had ,along with some very expensive Leica & Zeiss camera lens ,to finance my Stax rig
 Now,I'm upgrading to the 009,& as stated above,my wife will begin slowly removing some of my most treasured body parts,and is now threatening the ups/fedex delivery men too
  
 Enjoy,you are now at endgame-congratulations..
  
 Mike


----------



## rawrster

Many who venture into Stax never go back  I sold my dynamic rig after getting the O2


----------



## SilverEars

rawrster said:


> Many who venture into Stax never go back
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Dat's right!  Once you go Stax you never go bax!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm rocking my Lambda pros like it has never been rocked before.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Except my Orthos, I go bax to my orthos at times.  You should consider testing out the Orthos waters.  It will make you fall in deep.


----------



## rgs9200m

lornecherry said:


> Mike, are you saying that the 009 sounded better with the 007a, or your Justin modded 727? The reason I ask, is also have a Justin modded 727 (with Omega 2.5s)...and was wondering if the jump to the 009 is significant with the 727...since it may be a while before a Blue Hawaii finds its way here.


 
 All I know is that at the Woo audio demo a year or 2 ago he had an SR007 and and SR009 for a direct, real-time A/B comparison. I first tried the SR007 and thought to myself, "these are pretty nice, but I kind of like my HD800s and Audezes better."
 Then I switched over to the SR009s and said, OMG, I've never heard anything like this from a phone-- so genuine, so startling, I've got to get these. Now I own them.
  
 If you have a BHSE, you really owe it to yourself to try (meaning buy) an 009 for it (though I never heard this combo, I would still do it on faith if I had such an amp).
 I'd trust Tyll and Peter here.


----------



## rawrster

silverears said:


> Dat's right!  Once you go Stax you never go bax!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've had orthos too  The only one to my taste was the HE6 and while it was very nice I'll still take my O2. The only upgrade I can do is getting a KGSSHV amp since I'm not a fan of tubes. The SR009 doesn't sit right with me for some reason so that's nothing something under consideration for me.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

rawrster said:


> Many who venture into Stax never go back
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Except I've had the o2 and a Kgss for the past several years without too much use !!


----------



## jackskelly

rawrster said:


> Many who venture into Stax never go back
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Similarly, I sold my HD 800 just recently. It just wasn't getting much listening, almost none at all, after getting the 009s paired with a good amp and setup. I could possibly see a point in the future though where I'm thinking about the Orpheus or Abyss, or maybe even great speakers eventually, but for now I'm quite content with the 009s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## astrostar59

> The 009 certainly improves in some areas over the 007 like extended frequency extremes and soundstage. Its really difficult to describe verbally how the 007Mk1 compares to 009. Some say its a dark sounding headphone, personally I wouldn't describe it that way. Its more that it doesn't draw attention to itself with exaggerated bass or lit up treble. Its a very organic, natural and integrated sound, not the immediate wow factor but the more you listen the more you realise just how great a headphone it is IMHO.




Many thanks, you post has helped me quite a bit. 

It is a nice position to have both the 007s and the 009s at home. I will have to trade in my 007s so the decision to do that will need to be thought through. My demo at David's is tomorrow, so as long as I don't drive him insane! I think I should come to a decision then. I agree, the 007 is a great headphone and also not a WOW as soon as you put it on. It reminds me of how I find the Audio Note DACs, at a demo they are nice but not jumping out at you. However, after living with them, I found I was listening to a LOT more music and forgetting the gear.

Stax for me really get to the heart of the music. I know some say they are 'cold' or 'not accurate' I don't find that,. but I do think they need smooth and possibly warm up stream gear to sing.
I call it system synergy for a better description, get is right and you are in heaven.

Don't you just love this hobby?


----------



## kothganesh

rawrster said:


> I've had orthos too  The only one to my taste was the HE6 and while it was very nice I'll still take my O2. The only upgrade I can do is getting a KGSSHV amp since I'm not a fan of tubes. The SR009 doesn't sit right with me for some reason so that's nothing something under consideration for me.


 
 I am still torn between my Audez'e LCDs and the 007mk1. To make peace with myself, I use the orthos in the office (tube amps) and the 007 mk1 (with the KGSShv) at home. Who says you can't have your cake etc etc


----------



## complin

When I first had my Audeze I was smitten with tem too and thought they compared to the 007Mk1 BUT after living with them for at least a year I realize the Stax are head and shoulders above them. For me the Audeze have a number of issues some of which are not immediately obvious.
 They are heavy and uncomfortable to wear over a long period.
 The soundstage is quite poor in comparison and there is not the layering within it like the 007MK1
 The top end misses a lot of detail and is rolled off
 They are not consistent, as after sampling several they were all slightly different from one to the other
 The jury is still out regarding reliability
  
 All in all I have fallen out of love with Audeze  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    
  
 Quote:


kothganesh said:


> I am still torn between my Audez'e LCDs and the 007mk1. To make peace with myself, I use the orthos in the office (tube amps) and the 007 mk1 (with the KGSShv) at home. Who says you can't have your cake etc etc


----------



## SquireC

mikek200 said:


> Lornecherry,
> 
> IMHO,the 009 is a better headphone  than the 007a,with my current amp
> 
> ...


 

 Mike,
 Has your wife been making transatlantic calls to my wife? I mentioned making changes to my turntable and my wife referred to body parts, specifically 'a hiking boot to the family jewels'. Perhaps its a worldwide conspiracy to stop us buying new Stax stuff. It's even got Zolkis making his own earpads.LOL.


----------



## cat6man

_I could not live with the upsampling DAC's either because of the digititus. The problem with stats is that they are so transparent and revealing of all the up stream gear so poor recording or a highly lit up DAC will be immediately noticeable. Personally I went through a number of DAC's and ended up with a NOS DAC too for use with the 007MK1. The upsampling/oversampling versions I tried just sounded mechanical and artificial. I think if you are prepared to spend huge sums on an upsampler then they can be very good but I would find it very difficult to justify the cost of upwards of $30,000! Finally I tried both the Audio Note and Metrum and settled for the latter. I would love to have the opportunity to try the TotalDAC and the MSB Platinum as both of these are ladder DAC's._
_I could not live with the upsampling DAC's either because of the digititus. The problem with stats is that they are so transparent and revealing of all the up stream gear so poor recording or a highly lit up DAC will be immediately noticeable. Personally I went through a number of DAC's and ended up with a NOS DAC too for use with the 007MK1. The upsampling/oversampling versions I tried just sounded mechanical and artificial. I think if you are prepared to spend huge sums on an upsampler then they can be very good but I would find it very difficult to justify the cost of upwards of $30,000! Finally I tried both the Audio Note and Metrum and settled for the latter. I would love to have the opportunity to try the TotalDAC and the MSB Platinum as both of these are ladder DAC's._
  
 Agree completely.  
  
 While DAC hunting this past year, I had the opportunity to hear many of the current crop of DAC and found that the R2R were in a totally different league, particularly with the 009/bhse.  Gobs of details without etch or bleeding ears.  I ended up with the TotalDAC but also liked the MSB stack (but couldn't afford it anyway).  I never got to do a direct A/B with the two, but could easily live with either .  Other top DACS, which sounded good until compared with the R2R dacs, included Ayre QB-9(new and old), Bricasti, Wadia 27ix (my old DAC), Viola, Berkely alpha, all very  nice DACS but not ones that could withstand the microscopic scrutiny of the stax 009.


----------



## Scottsmrnyc

Sorry to interrupt the conversation. I have a question in regard to older Stax headphone extention cables. I have a Stax headphone extention cable that is gray in color. The female prong has got six holes in it and the male prong has got five prongs in it.  What is the purpose of this type of cable?  Which type of Stax headphone could I use with it? Pro or Non Pro? Any information is welcome.  Thanks.


----------



## davidsh

scottsmrnyc said:


> Sorry to interrupt the conversation. I have a question in regard to older Stax headphone extention cables. I have a Stax headphone extention cable that is gray in color. The female prong has got six holes in it and the male prong has got five prongs in it.  What is the purpose of this type of cable?  Which type of Stax headphone could I use with it? Pro or Non Pro? Any information is welcome.  Thanks.


 
 Both pro and non-pros can be used with this cable, but you must be aware not using non-pro earspeakers out of pro bias amps!


----------



## Scottsmrnyc

Thanks for finding the answer for me. I really do appreciate it.


----------



## mikek200

squirec said:


> Mike,
> Has your wife been making transatlantic calls to my wife? I mentioned making changes to my turntable and my wife referred to body parts, specifically 'a hiking boot to the family jewels'. Perhaps its a worldwide conspiracy to stop us buying new Stax stuff. It's even got Zolkis making his own earpads.LOL.


 
 LOL
  
 I've heard rumors they're going to start their own UNION!!!!
 Lets just hope no Japanese women join-then,we're really.....well you know.
  
 Mike


----------



## mikek200

Sorry guys for the digression
 Back to Stax now...


----------



## astrostar59

Great post Complin!

I agree 100%. I am demoing the 007/009/717/BHSE today so will report back - exciting.

My 'hope' is the 009 sounds so good with my 717 amp I can just live with that and not have to sell my wife to get the BHSE.

If however, the 009 and BHSE is a game changer, and is to another level totally with the 009 and 717, them I am screwed!

Keeping the 007s and getting the BHSE is more money than swopping out the 007s for the 009s and using my existing 717.

My front end is a None Oversampling Audio Note DAC tubed, so will probably sound a bit warmer the David's K-01?

That may tamper the 009s treble lift or sudden increase in detail. I can live with more detail as long as it doesn't head towards
the Lambda Signature direction of treble edge. That will come down to my DAC I reckon. Pity I couldn't bring my DAC but it is in
Spain and 3000 miles in the car would have shook it o bits....

The world without dealers I guess. Still a BHSE with dealer network would be 50% more money no doubt.


----------



## SquireC

astrostar59 said:


> Great post Complin!
> 
> I agree 100%. I am demoing the 007/009/717/BHSE today so will report back - exciting.
> 
> ...


 
 If the Lambda Signature's have a treble edge, I would suggest you also listen to some other DAC's at least. A tubed DAC should be providing a smooth and detailed sound. Never in a million years would I say that the Signatures have a treble edge, so something is 'not right' in your system IMHO.
  
 And I would do that before making a firm decision on the 717 or BHSE.
  
 Just thought I'd mention it before you sold the wife.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

I had the Lambda Signatures for quite some time and still have no idea what this treble edge is all about


----------



## astrostar59

Sorry, let re rephrase that. My Lambda Nova Signatures had a lower treble lift, thus emphasised that area of treble,
thus any recording that had extra energy in that area got even more emphasised.

I have found in speaker settings and headphone systems that digital (RedBook) can in many cases have a
slight but to me obvious treble edge, or shall we say cold lower treble quality.

I don't hear that in my original turntable system with the same amps and speakers and headphones.
I went through 8 or so decent DACs before I got my first None over Sampling DAC and finally was happy
with RedBook replay.

This subject is wide, and controversial and will rub many up the wrong way, so I won't go into it further here,
just to say, before anyone fires back in anger, I would strongly recommend they listen to a good
NOS DAC first. 

Going back to the Lambda models, pretty much everyone concedes they have thin bass and emphasised
lower treble to their sound signature. They have however great imaging and fast typical response of E-Stats,
thus why I had them for years. IMHO it was also one of the reasons Stax were going bust, as they weren't getting
the sales mainstream to survive. The 007 was the answer I guess. And it is a great phone, though that also has
issues (needs great amp).

Sorry, long answer, hope this clears up my post which is of course my opinion, and why we have this forum right?


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

astrostar59 said:


> Sorry, let re rephrase that. My Lambda Nova Signatures had a lower treble lift, thus emphasised that area of treble,
> thus any recording that had extra energy in that area got even more emphasised.
> 
> I have found in speaker settings and headphone systems that digital (RedBook) can in many cases have a
> ...


 

 Ok. I disagree that they have thin bass, it's just not a bass that will make your head rumble. But all the frequencies are there.
 And one more thing, Lambda Nova Signature != Lambda Signature


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Yeah... going to go out on a limb here.  To my tin ears the Lambda Nova Signatures do not sound treble etched or treble emphasized or weak in the bass; hope your pair is OK!  Are your pads original or modern?  I can tell you that finding the right amp for LNS has been somewhat a unexpected experience.  Let's just say I didn't like them on the KGSS or 717 when compared to the 323s despite the former two amps having high marks (this is just in the case of the LNS not o2 for example).  I'm still trying to figure that one out!


----------



## Keithpgdrb

amanand88keys said:


> Ok. I disagree that they have thin bass, it's just not a bass that will make your head rumble. But all the frequencies are there.
> And one more thing, Lambda Nova Signature != Lambda Signature


 
 your not saying that the LNS and LS are the same headphone are you?  cause they aren't.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

The != most definitely means is not the same as


----------



## TheAttorney

astrostar59 said:


> My 'hope' is the 009 sounds so good with my 717 amp I can just live with that and not have to sell my wife to get the BHSE.


 
 Hmm, wife or BHSE? Tricky call....


----------



## realmassy

theattorney said:


> Hmm, wife or BHSE? Tricky call....



I'm getting married on Saturday, so 'unfortunately' I'll have to pass on that one :-D


----------



## SONYES

HI 
   I AM FROM ISRAEL
  
NEED HALP
  
 I WHANT TO BAY  SR 009+SRM007TII / SRM727II  
   OR
  SR007 MKII+SRM007TII  ONLY AS SET  
  
 THIS  WHAT WE CAN BAY HER  
  
 I HAVE 
  
 HD 800/  T1
 LUXMAN P-1U  AND  BCL
  
I WHANT OPEN DEEP WIDE AS HD800 VERY WELL BASS AND MID TO HER ALL THAT IS IN THE MUSIC
  
 I LISEN TO  MOZART OPERAS  AND MORE SYENPHONY  MAHLER BETHOVEN .........
  
 HOW IS THE BEST FOR THAT KIND  OF MUSIC 
  
 THANK YOU


----------



## astrostar59

My mini review of the 007s and 009s with the SRM-717 and the BHSE with 4 x Mullard tubes and 4 x PSVane Tubes.

The demo session was for 4 intensive hours today at David's place. Source was his K-01 as CD spinner and using
its built in DAC. Settings on the K-01 were:

1. Filters off
2. Oversampling off
3. RCA connection to 717
4. XLR connection to BHSE
5. 1 hour plus warm up before starting 4 hour session
6. Music was AIFFs extracted using XLD to a CD at 44.1.
7. 11 tracks used of various music types (Armin Van Buuren, Alex M.o.r.p.h., Rammstien, Beyonce, Pink Floyd Wall Remastered)

*007 v 009 with the SRM-717*
First up, we tried the 007s with the 717 amp, and then A/B compared the same tracks immediately to the 009s with the 717.
It became obvious that the 009s were more transparent, livelier in the top registers and also wider sound stage. The bass was about
the same level and weight compared to the midrange levels, but was tighter and less one note. Not that the bass on the 007s is so one note, it was simply the 009s gave more information and was more musical / realistic.

It was also obvious the 009s were much easier to drive as we had the volume at 3 on the 717 volume pot and 4-5 with the 007s.
The sound signature of the 009s appeared bright only going from the 007 straight through to the 009s. If we listened to the 009s for a few tracks right through, this perception changed, and I was left with hearing a balanced sound with lots of detail and fast transients, no distortion or edge, just pure music. this was getting exciting. The sound was really pretty damb good from the 717, and the slight loss of focus or loosening in the bass with the 007s had vanished, even at high listening levels.

I would put the jump from my 007s to the 009s with the 717 amp as a leap of 30% in quality.

*007 with the BHSE and Stock Mullard tubes*
Next I listened to the same tracks on the 007s through the BHSE. The 007s came more alive, as though they had a fully charged battery all of a sudden. Everything was better and faster, the sound stage was wider, and the bass was under full control at last. Also the midrange became more prominent and smoother, and vocals sounded real rather than 'hi-fi' in nature. It was to me, the treble that really smoothed out, lost and edge or cold character, and no longer held the sound back. I think the treble quality is the part of
the sound signature I struggled with in the past, and clearly the BHSE has that sorted. Effectively play the music and forget the gear.

I would put the jump from my 007s with the 717 amp to the 007s with the BHSE as a leap of 20% in quality.

*009s with the BHSE and PSVane Tubes*
Next David put the PSVane tubes in, rebalanced them, let them warm up for 45 mins, then played the same tracks with the 009s.
Here the 009s went again to the next level. They were more alive and controlled than driven by the 717, but the jump in that respect was not as big as the 007s, which were struggling driven by the 717. In the 009s case, the sound was cleaner, warmer, even wider sound stage and generally a more sophisticated sound. Everything just sounded cleaner and more realistic / organic. An acoustic guitar sounded like an acoustic guitar instead of a CD recording. It is difficult to explain, but basically I found I was analysing less and listening to the tracks right through instead, forgetting I was supposed to be doing a demo.

I would put the jump from my 007s with the BHSE to the 009s with the BHSE as a leap of 25% in quality.

And for my final analysis I would put the jump from my 007s with the 717 to the 009s with the BHSE as a leap of 45% in quality.

So, after this I have decided the best plan for me, and my budgets and my system, is to get the 009s and run them for a while with the 717 amp. That gave me a bigger jump then keeping the 007s and getting a BHSE. It is also a bit cheaper going that route.

Then possibly at some later date, and money allowing, I may get a BHSE.

The advantage of a 717 (solid state amp) is I would leave it on during the afternoon - evening period when I have to take the dogs out. I know it sounds trivial but that would no doubt lead to more use than saving tubes or having 2 switch ons a day for the BHSE. 

Which brings me full circle back to the 007s. I do love those headphones, and can see the potential with a great am driving them. But for me, even with that, the general sound signature of the 007s with it's dropped treble response (shown in the past by measurements by Inner Fidelity) was still holding back the BHSE.

I can see how the 007s will work really well with as brighter front end, or for a customer who likes a warmer / darker sound. It is a very polite headphone and has a great midrange IMHO. The bass of my Mk2.5s is a bit emphasised maybe, further enhanced by the shelved mid-upper treble. I just fell in love with the detail and wide band sound of the 009s. It was just more of everything. I know that can be a blessing or a curse, but with careful system building (DAC & Transport/Computer)
it can sound truly fantastic.

It's a bit like do you want to listen to the concert in the 10th row (007s) or the 3rd row (009s). Both are correct, but mine is row 3 I feel.....

David is a great Head-Fier, clearly a dedicated enthusiast, so thanks a bunch for letting me play with his BHSE and 009s.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Great to have your impressions like this astro.  So your 007 was mk2.5 and you didn't get to try mk1 or mk2?
  
 I find it most telling:
  


astrostar59 said:


> I would put the jump from my 007s with the BHSE to the 009s with the BHSE as a leap of 25% in quality.
> 
> And for my final analysis I would put the jump from my 007s with the 717 to the 009s with the BHSE as a leap of 45% in quality.
> 
> So, after this I have decided the best plan for me, and my budgets and my system, is to get the 009s and run them for a while with the 717 amp. That gave me a bigger jump then keeping the 007s and getting a BHSE. It is also a bit cheaper going that route.


 
  
 So what I am reading is that it's more efficient to go 009 + 717 than it is to go 007 + BHSE... also that while both 007 and 009 benefitted greatly with the BHSE, the 007 improved more than the 009 improved hence the 717 should do a great job until funds permit...
  
 I think similar things have been said in the past but still great to know.


----------



## astrostar59

> So what I am reading is that it's more efficient to go 009 + 717 than it is to go 007 + BHSE... also that while both 007 and 009 benefitted greatly with the BHSE, the 007 improved more than the 009 improved hence the 717 should do a great job until funds permit...




Yes, that is how I realised it to my ears. There are 2 big areas where the 009s improved on the 717 over the 007s aside from extra detail:
Bass control and dynamics. Both I believe were because the 009s are easier to drive. So an 009 might also sound pretty damb good even with a Stax tube amp
like the 007t?

If the 009s didn't exist, I would have been very happy with the 007 + BHSE system.
The trouble is, the 009 is SUCH as good headphone, it rather upsets the apple cart as we English say. The signature is quite different to the 007.
It's more of everything, but also closer to the source as well. I guess it's a bit of a shock for a long term 007 user. 

I am thinking, because it is quite different to the 007s, that is the reason some find it bright. There is no longer a veil or layer between you and the source,
as with the 007s. This veil does mask limitations upstream I think. It is complicated, as the 009s still sounds good with my stand in CD player here until I get
back to Spain. It's the treble quality that needs to be top notch before feeding to the 009s. If you have that sorted (clean source) you will be in heaven with the 009s.

Which makes me think a mid range system might be better with the 007s and a top range system better with the 009s (based on starting from scratch).
Possibly a BHSE with the 007s is like putting a bigger engine in a small car. I goes faster but is on the limit?

Interesting subject.


----------



## zolkis

astrostar59 said:


> Which brings me full circle back to the 007s. I do love those headphones, and can see the potential with a great am driving them. But for me, even with that, the general sound signature of the 007s with it's dropped treble response (shown in the past by measurements by Inner Fidelity) was still holding back the BHSE.


 
  
 Thanks for the review. I have had exactly the same reaction when comparing Stax headphones (007, 007mk2.5, 007mk1, 507): the 009 was head and shoulders above all of them in the exact way you describe. However, I am not sure any more the gap is that big. The new pads on my 007 mk1 made wonders, especially with the treble of the 007, and the soundstage width. It is not the slightestly tiny bit rolled off any more, but it's not etched either in any way, and it's better defined treble than the 009, which has a kind of light haze quality to it with Stax amps (perhaps cleared by the BHSE).
  
 I may have an opportunity to compare with a 009 in 3 weeks time, then I could tell more. I also struggle with the same thing about the 009: I've always felt the 007 could sound better, and they do now, but the 009 is still out there, and how good potential _that_one_ might have? My wife is more tolerant with my hi-fi bug (and my headphones obsession is nothing compared to my speakers obsession), but she would say we should rather use the 009 money to go spend some time together in a nice place . And she's probably right, as always, hadn't it been for the 009... 
  
 But if you are interested in getting the treble right with 007, it only costs you a little DIY by changing the pad foam to another one cut out from the active carbon filter (available in hardware stores as filter set for e.g. Vallox ventilation machines), and use it without the spring, and optionally without the cloth grill (much easier to assemble, too). For improved sound stage, follow the full mod described in http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/2310#post_10536905, which makes the inner opening bigger.
  
 Since you are also in EU, I could even send you my current pads if you promise I'll get them back , to try them out and do the comparison with the 009. Looks like I can trust your judgement as well as mine. The question is not whether is it becoming better than the 009, since it will be still different, but how close does it get.
  
 I think it was Asr how said earlier as a compliment to the TH900 that the 007 mk1 is about 5% better than a well driven TH900 (both in stock form), but having both (with modified ear pads) I can say the difference is more than that, and although IMHO the modded TH900 is currently the best dynamic headphone, but is still bested by my 007 especially in the treble and sound stage, exactly where you find the stock 007 lacking.


----------



## David1961

Hi Julian,

While I enjoyed our listening session yesterday, one thing I was planning on but ended up not doing, was to also use my iPod with your 717 and my BHSE. I think in using the iPod might have given a better idea on the difference between the 717 and BHSE . In using the K-01, my feeling is it could've brought the 717 and BHSE closer together.

After you went Julian, I listened to some of the music you downloaded ( which I'd like to thank you for ) onto my MacMini via the K-01's DAC and it sounded incredible, I was very impressed with Armin Van Buuren but Rammstien just blew me away, the energy I heard from their music was simply amazing.
As you told me, all the music you downloaded was in AIFF format which is probably why it sounded a lot better than the music I downloaded.
When you have the 009's, I'm interested to know your thoughts on how they sound with your 717 and tubed DAC.


----------



## ftf286

I'm thinking of getting a pair of 009s, does the Woo Audio GES pair well with these or should I be looking at the WES or blue hawaii?


----------



## troymadison

ftf286 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a pair of 009s, does the Woo Audio GES pair well with these or should I be looking at the WES or blue hawaii?


 

 The GES or WES are not popular options for TOTL Stax.


----------



## TheAttorney

astrostar59 said:


> *009s with the BHSE and PSVane Tubes*
> 
> Here the 009s went again to the next level. .... Everything just sounded cleaner and more realistic / organic. An acoustic guitar sounded like an acoustic guitar instead of a CD recording.... I would put the jump from my 007s with the BHSE to the 009s with the BHSE as a leap of 25% in quality.


 
   
As far as I can tell, two things were changed at this point: the 009s and the Psvane EL34PHs. 

 IMO, the PHs would have given a significant contribution to the above sound improvement that you experienced - irrespective of the headphones under test.
  
 A better comparison would have been to change only one thing at a time. I realise there may not have been enough time to try every combination, but it has left a question mark nevertheless.


----------



## astrostar59

> the PHs would have given a significant contribution to the above sound improvement that you experienced - irrespective of the headphones under test.




I did hear the 007s with both the Mullard tubes and the Psvanes. I didn't write about it as I would intend to use the PHs only if I had the 009s and the BHSE.

With the 007s, the PHs did tame the treble energy a bit to my ears, and the Mullards gave a boost to compensate for the perceived lack of upper treble response in the 007s.
It was debatable which was best, Psvane smoothness, or Mullard treble lift? I was not sure.

By the time I got to this stage, I had fallen for the 009s and was focused on that for the last 45 minutes of the demo.

I am of the opinion that, to put a 5.5k amp in front of the 007s was good, but didn't hit the right spot. It was well behind the 009s in all respects.
So much so, I would even say the 009s with my 717 sounded better to my ears than the 007s with the BHSE and PH tubes or Mullards.

Possibly I really liked the 009s presentation? I have a tubed DAC so I can see I will be ok with the extra treble energy or removal of the 007 veil
so to speak. 

I can report back in 2 months time once I get back to Spain and hook up my front end to the incoming 009s.

I think the front end in so important at this level. The treble quality is so important and to me has the biggest impact - making or breaking everything else
that may be good or great about the SQ on offer.

I also think folk need a good session with the 009s. The brain does adjust to the different presentation from the 007s, First off it seems a bit bright,
but actually it is the amount of detail that is coming through. This might also be why some think the bass is lighter on the 009s to the 007s. In my view
the 007 has a bloomier bass, or a slight bloat in the mid bass, that sounds like extra energy but actually isn't. The bass on the 009 is right there to hear,
and is very fast, on or off fast, no overshoot, no bloat.

I hope this helps. It is so difficult to describe in words. I just got an emotional connection with the 009s, and though I love my 007s, it was for me
the full story on offer, great e-stat attributes (as the 007) but also a presentation to a higher level than I have heard before.


----------



## johangrb

ftf286 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a pair of 009s, does the Woo Audio GES pair well with these or should I be looking at the WES or blue hawaii?


 

 BHSE all the way! (If you can find one).


----------



## David1961

johangrb said:


> ftf286 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm thinking of getting a pair of 009s, does the Woo Audio GES pair well with these or should I be looking at the WES or blue hawaii?
> ...




 I've never heard the GES or WES, but if using 009's with the BHSE, then IMO Psvane EL34PH tubes are a must.


----------



## David1961

astrostar59 said:


> The advantage of a 717 (solid state amp) is I would leave it on during the afternoon - evening period when I have to take the dogs out. I know it sounds trivial but that would no doubt lead to more use than saving tubes or having 2 switch ons a day for the BHSE.




Although it would probably be safe to leave the BHSE on power unattended, it's something I would never do, so with you having the confidence to leave your 717 on while going out Julian, it might be a good idea to ask Justin if he's any plans in the near future to build the KGSSHV.
If Justin did start building the KGSSHV, I'm not sure how it's SQ would compare to the BHSE, but I've NO DOUBT it's build quality would be on par.


----------



## astrostar59

Yes, a Justin built KGSSHV would be of interest to me. I need to get the 009s first, live with them and my 717 with my tubed DAC. I might find that is
my end game. The trouble at this level, is you need 5K US at least to get to the next level as regards amplification. So the jump needs to be worth it.

My front end has got lots of my attention as regards finer tuning the parts in my DAC (tantalum resistors, BG capacitors, V-Caps) and NOS tube selection etc.
I also use an M2 Tech full stack and the Mac Mini with Audirvana+ which all took the sound to a higher level than my previous CD Drive.

So, maybe I now need to just enjoy the music for a while see how it goes? The 009 is much easier to drive which I think has changed the landscape for high end
stat amps IMHO. OK there are the ultimate solutions (BHSE and WES) but the gap below that seems to have got a lot closer with my 717 and possibly other Stax amps. Back in the days of the 007 being the flagship it was a different story. If I really wanted to keep my 007s the only way to go would be BHSE, and that would be just to get closer to the 009s. Even then, I think (with my ears) it is still not as good in almost all areas. 

However, if I had a colder / brighter DAC, possibly it would be better to stay with the 007s for their warming effect and less energy up top. But then I wouldn't get the 009s detail or space....
It's so complicated! I am convinced that folk sticking to the 007s with a BHSE must have a brighter and colder DAC, and possibly don't want to visit that for various reasons. It comes down to a sum of the parts and system synergy. Audio Note UK for example, voice their amps and speakers as a set at a level or price point in the range. It is because not all components bolt together 100%. Yes they will make music but maybe not to the right flavour? It is not always the case a top DAC made by manufacturer A gels 100% with headphone manufacturer B. It gets real subtle. 

Do this test, find a CD track on your computer that you are famiier with and that has some female vocals or strings. Go into some EQ software and up the frequency at 5-10K area by 3 DB. Now A/B the 2 versions and see how it has changed. This I think is the crux of the matter. Tiny changes in the signal path before it gets to the phones has a big effect, and the 009s are like a doctors stethoscope, you hear it ALL. And it also shows how certain recordings are either a bit bright or a bit dark. Some guy in a studio sat in front of big monitors, and also mini monitors as well, has to make a judgement on the sound balance to suit a radio and a home hi-fi. It reminds me of the time I was a DJ in clubs, and I used to get free DJ promo vinyl that was not available to the public. They were mixed out to suit a clubs sound system (great bas extension) and those records sounded superb! BTW my hearing is just fine, before folk make a joke about me being half deaf!

And of course we have personal taste as to how we think music should sound, the condition of the persons hearing, how loud they listen at etc etc. And then we have types of music. Some just don't get the stat sound either. I might be lucky, or cursed? But I fell in love with the Stax sound right off the bat 25 years back, even with a poor source gear (tape deck) into a none pro Lambda with SRD7 energiser. It still walked all over my speakers!


----------



## astrostar59

Been looking at the FQ charts on Inner Fidelities review. They seem quite close between the 007 and 009 but on closer inspection they are very different. I have put them together in this image comp to show my point about SUBTLE changes to the signature of the music.

This is of course at the end of the chain - the headphone. It is not taking into account the amps or the DAC, and only looking at the FQ response, not distortion or actual quality of the signal or speed of transients. It does however partly explain to my eyes, why possibly the 007 is a bit dark, and the 009 is not.




Point A may explain the Bass bloom I hear on my 007s (MK2s).

Point B shows a flatter response for the 009s in the lower mids that will loose detail / energy in the 007s.

Point C is quite a bit drop for the 007s of 5 DB. This will mask detail in female voices for example

Point D is a big 8 DB spike in the 10k area that will emphasise symbals, strings and such to give treble emphasis, but not
much else, as it is very short i.e. sudden drops either side of that area. By upping the volume to hear the surrounding spectrum to
that level would further emphasise this, leading to a skewing in the character of the music / illusion of detail.

Point E shows the 007 is actually not far behind the 009s here, so the last bit of high frequency detail will be represented ok, it's just
maybe not much information goes into this area as regards the whole piece of music? 

Looking at this, ok they have different responses, but so what? Yes, but these differences look subtle but WILL impact on the balance of the sound. High quality gear reveals it, warts and all.

BTW I shunted up the 009 responses so they lined up to the 007s. The 009 was 5 DB louder approx. That extra 5 DB on my Stax amp relates to 3 for the 009s and 4.5 for the 007s for the same sound level, which is quite a big difference. It shows how anything beyond say 2 DB could be obvious and easy to hear in piece of music.


----------



## takato14

sonyes said:


> HI
> I AM FROM ISRAEL
> 
> NEED HALP
> ...


 
 SR-009 + SRM-323S
  
 Don't use any other Stax amp unless you want something tubey or colored sounding.
  
 The HD800's soundstage might be wider but the 009's is deeper and more precise.
  
 Another option might be the Sony Qualia (Q010 or Q010-MDR1) if you can find one that fits, but it's extremely rare and fit is absolutely critical to proper sound, so finding one AND finding one that's the right size, simultaneously, only happens once in a blue moon.


----------



## astrostar59

> SR-009 + SRM-323S
> 
> Don't use any other Stax amp unless you want something tubey or colored sounding.




I am not sure about that? Is the 323S going to do justice to the 009s? And he will need a great source
or the 009s will be very ruthless (reveal irritating treble edge in the source).

I am wondering if he might be better with an 007 and a weaked 727 to Spritzers brief. 
The 007 will be more forgiving of a less than stellar source, and the tweaked 727 will drive it really well.

Or he may actually like a tubed Stax amp like the 007t, which can be improved with decent valves.
and the 009s. Might be better for strings etc.

Pity there is no amp in the price gap between Stax amps and BHSE or WES......


----------



## Mr.Sneis

I don't have 009 on hand but I like the 323s + Lambda Nova Signature combo enough to say confidently I'd rather have that particular amp with that particular stat over say the 717 and KGSS.  Luckily I have choices.  Must be a synergy thing.


----------



## complin

I cant understand how you could describe Stax amps as tubey or colored! Of the new offerings the 323 does offer the best bang for the buck, but many of the vintage amps like the SRM-T1, SRM-1Mk/II and 12S are good too. 
 The tube amps are certainly smoother and more laid back and a little less dynamic than the solid state. In fact some would say they can be preferable with the 009 as they can smooth the treble if you find it a little too much. They will certainly still be running when some of the current FOM have long gone.  
  
 Quote:


takato14 said:


> SR-009 + SRM-323S
> 
> Don't use any other Stax amp unless you want something tubey or colored sounding.


----------



## astrostar59

> I don't have 009 on hand but I like the 323s + Lambda Nova Signature combo enough to say confidently I'd rather have that particular amp with that particular stat over say the 717 and KGSS. Luckily I have choices. Must be a synergy thing.





No No, this is bad advice dude. The Lambda in another league (lower) than the 009s so any connection here is worthless / not relevant.
The 009 is easy to drive but is another detail / resolution level and will reveal all the fault of the cheaper parts and less voltage in the 323s.
Turn up the volume pot and see what happens....

I have heard both the 323s and the 717 (which I am using right now) and the 717 rocks. It sounds great with the 009s which I tested this week against the BHSE
and it was not miles behind actually. A second hand 717 or a modded 727 would be better IMHO if on a budget. Next step up would be a big jump in money to the KGSS and upwards.

But I am sticking with my 717. I am not convinced the jump is worth the money for me. And I like the less hassle aspect of valves in the stat amp.

Turning this on it's head, the advice to get an 009 also depends on the front end (DAC and Transport). If that is low quality the system will be top heavy and
will reveal all the problems, giving an unsatisfactory sound overall. It is complicated. If the front end is lower qulity he may be better looking at a 507 and get a better
DAC?


----------



## kothganesh

Astrostar, I like your thoughts on giving the source before getting the 009. I have the 007 mk1 with the KGSSHV and I was wincing many a time when I heard some of my material. I am busy now upgrading to lossless and 24/192.


----------



## jaycalgary

My Headamp KGSS easily outshines my 717 especially with the 009's. Wish it was closer because it would be so much easier to travel with the 717.


----------



## astrostar59

Hi jaycalgary
You heard any None Oversampling DACs? I find they sound much better than Delta-Sigma DACs including most higher resolution files.
It might be worth looking at that. My front end changed a lot (for the better) after I abandoned the over sampling hype / Bull.

Let your ears do the talking.....Redbook can sound amazing.


----------



## complin

I think we have to get things into perspective here a little 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Broadly speaking the design of the Stax amplifier ranges (2xx, 3xx, 6xx and 7xx) over the years have broadly stayed the same. Yes there have been a few tweaks here and there and a few more novel designs like DC coupling and hybrids (SRM-3, SRA-3S) so you are not looking at radically different designs from the vintage stuff. Also just because the 7 series is more expensive than the 3 its dangerous to assume the parts are significantly different in quality. If you have ever worked in manufacturing and retailing you will know that packaging up something which is pretty much a similar product in a premium look means you can increase both the price and the profit margin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As  you have already discovered the 009's are *significantly *easier to drive than their predecessors so IMO high voltage output does not need to be the main criteria. In fact the 7x series only outputs 50 volts more (about 10%) than the 323! The 323 is less than half the cost of 7xx series amplifier but I would say provides almost equivalent performance as diminishing returns kick in very quickly. However I believe the 727 is probably Stax's best sounding amplifier from their current range, its a bit more refined than the 323, but you have to make your own value judgment.
  
 Personally I would agree with you that providing the best possible source should be the priority, garbage in garbage out! So money spent on the front end source will always pay dividends, as the amp and headphones can't "magic up" information its not being fed.
  
 You say the Lambda series in another league (lower) than the 009's. Whilst I agree to some extent they cost 5 to 10 times less than the 009's. Whilst they aren't up to the TOTL Stax they can still beat out the majority of their dynamic brothers in terms of transparency and detail. If you are considering buying from the current Lambda range I would have a good listen first as many prefer the previous series due to changes which some feel had a negative effect on the overall sound. Having listened to the current range myself I feel the 207 offers the best bang for the buck.  
  
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> No No, this is bad advice dude. The Lambda in another league (lower) than the 009s so any connection here is worthless / not relevant.
> The 009 is easy to drive but is another detail / resolution level and will reveal all the fault of the cheaper parts and less voltage in the 323s.
> Turn up the volume pot and see what happens....
> 
> ...


----------



## astrostar59

The 717 does sound quit e a lot better to my ears than the 323s when I had the 323 here through my 007s. Turn up the volume above half way and you will see....

The Lambda Nova Signatures were happy with either amp as far as I could tell. 

And the inside design looks kinda quite different i.e more heat sinks, 2 x plug in boards for left and right output,
bigger trans, more caps in the PS decent resistors dotted about.

I am not saying the 323s is bad, only the 717 is quite different. Also the 717 doesn't have the feedback removed like the
existing 727 which sounds rather poor.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

astrostar59 said:


> No No, this is bad advice dude. The Lambda in another league (lower) than the 009s so any connection here is worthless / not relevant.
> The 009 is easy to drive but is another detail / resolution level and will reveal all the fault of the cheaper parts and less voltage in the 323s.
> Turn up the volume pot and see what happens....
> 
> ...


 
  
 No offense astro but that's not what I am saying.  No doubt the 009 is probably better on a 717 versus a 323s but I've heard firsthand the LNS on 717 Kgss and 323s and very easily the 323s was my pick.
  
 I know on paper it's probably the weaker amp but there is a great synergy of that combo I have yet to replicate on another amp.


----------



## astrostar59

> the 323s was my pic


k

Fair enough. Maybe your upstream gear suit the 323S? My LNS were a bit bright or should I say leaning towards an edgy treble quality which will emphasise
a brighter DAC or source. Possibly they also don't need the extra juice in a 717?

The LNS and 323S were probably designed to work as a set so synergy is the name of the game as you say.


----------



## dlaloum

Hi Folks,
  
 looking for some help from the communal Stax braintrust....
  
 I have picked up a set of SR-Xmk3, and have an SRD7 on its way to me....  (this will be my intro to Earspeakers)
  
 Two things are immediately apparent 
  
 1) the SRX needs new pads - what are my options? Any options other than pleather?
 2) the SRD7 is labelled 100V.  Can it handle my local 240V power? - How do I check whether it can? (I'd rather not let out the essential smoke that makes it work...) Can I look for a specific PCB version, etc...?
  
 Thanks in advance for assistance
  
 David


----------



## complin

This is very odd as the Lambda Nova Signature is probably the smoothest of all the Lambda range.
 Are you sure it had not been tampered with or are confusing it with the Lambda Signature which can be a bit bright and edgy.
 If it does not have Signature in red on the ear cups its not and LNS, it would be a LS or a 404 Signature.
 The LNS was produced at least a decade before the 323S so were never designed as such as a set.
   
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> k
> 
> Fair enough. Maybe your upstream gear suit the 323S? My LNS were a bit bright or should I say leaning towards an edgy treble quality which will emphasise
> a brighter DAC or source. Possibly they also don't need the extra juice in a 717?
> ...


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Pads are available @ audiocubes (and several other shops in the world) : http://www.audiocubes2.com/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/18/products_id/142?osCsid=0fb79cfa8241f0ab0d34724e6d7f0b98
  
 Ali


----------



## tdogzthmn

I've been doing some comparisons with between my SRM-600 and Stereomour 2A3 + SRD7 combo driving my SR-507.  Both amps are able to give wonderful sound with the 507 and each amp is able to do some things better than the other.  SRM-600 on the whole is clearer more detailed and faster than the Stereomour.  This is most apparent with fast and detailed music sushi as Metal or Electronica.  The SRM 600 is also brighter and more forward sounding with a smaller soundstage.  As for the Stereomour it also manages to be very detailed but in a more sublet way where the SRM 600 pushes all the detail out into the open.  The Steromour is certainly darker, more relaxed, natural, with a larger soundstage.  I really enjoy this amp with acoustic, jazz, classical genres with meshes well with the amps ability.  Its nice to have the ability to use the SRD7 to test out various stereo amplifiers such as the Steremour and SEX amps which I use for my speakers.  At the end of the day the SRM 600 wins out with is abilities but it is very surprising how great my other tube amps work with the SR-507.


----------



## astrostar59

Might be a dumb question? Has anyone tried connecting the earphone out from a Mac Laptop to a Stax RCA in?
If so, is it a disaster, or does it sound ok.

I am trying to figure out if there is a cheap and portable solution when I am away from home (and with my Laptop with Audirvana+) 
and avoid buying a second DAC.


----------



## davidsh

astrostar59 said:


> Might be a dumb question? Has anyone tried connecting the earphone out from a Mac Laptop to a Stax RCA in?
> If so, is it a disaster, or does it sound ok.
> 
> I am trying to figure out if there is a cheap and portable solution when I am away from home (and with my Laptop with Audirvana+)
> and avoid buying a second DAC.


 
 There are the battery powered stax amps?  Ofc mac->stax amp doesn't sound terrible, though I haven't tried. It's probably just a little 'meh'


----------



## dude_500

astrostar59 said:


> Might be a dumb question? Has anyone tried connecting the earphone out from a Mac Laptop to a Stax RCA in?
> If so, is it a disaster, or does it sound ok.
> 
> I am trying to figure out if there is a cheap and portable solution when I am away from home (and with my Laptop with Audirvana+)
> and avoid buying a second DAC.


 
  
 Well, the question is difficult to answer on a forum like this. For instance, I can say that in my view point, all DAC's including any modern computer line out are virtually indistinguishable from one-another when loaded with the high impedance of an amplifier input stage. I can also point out that double blind tests have been conducted which back up this claim. 

 Of course, at the end of the day, you'll still get a barrage of people saying I'm insane, I don't have good enough gear to hear the difference, I'm not listening right, my ears suck, I don't want to hear a difference, etc... And of course, double blind tests are irrelevant.
  
 The prevailing opinion is that indeed DAC's make a huge difference especially with electrostats.
  
 So ultimately, you must make your own decision on what tests you want to do to figure out what will sound good, and how you personally choose to define "sounds better".


----------



## davidsh

dude_500 said:


> Well, the question is difficult to answer on a forum like this. For instance, I can say that in my view point, all DAC's including any modern computer line out are virtually indistinguishable from one-another when loaded with the high impedance of an amplifier input stage. I can also point out that double blind tests have been conducted which back up this claim.
> 
> Of course, at the end of the day, you'll still get a barrage of people saying I'm insane, I don't have good enough gear to hear the difference, I'm not listening right, my ears suck, I don't want to hear a difference, etc... And of course, double blind tests are irrelevant.
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting thoughts and I'm personally leaning in the same direction (sort of) but not yet thoroughly established in this hobby so I can't say much about that. We better not follow such a controversal thought further on this forum


----------



## gilency

dude_500 said:


> Well, the question is difficult to answer on a forum like this. For instance, I can say that in my view point, all DAC's including any modern computer line out are virtually indistinguishable from one-another when loaded with the high impedance of an amplifier input stage. I can also point out that double blind tests have been conducted which back up this claim.
> 
> 
> Of course, at the end of the day, you'll still get a barrage of people saying I'm insane, I don't have good enough gear to hear the difference, I'm not listening right, my ears suck, I don't want to hear a difference, etc... And of course, double blind tests are irrelevant.
> ...




X2
Wholeheartedly agree.


----------



## karlgerman

in my opinion, even a cheap 20$ Chinese DAC will be better than using a non digital macbook-out.
 One of the reasons is the really bad preamp i discovered in all of my macbookpro´s. It´s noisy and kills a lot of dynamic´s.
 I tested those chinese dac´s, a friend brought from Honkong some time ago and they sounded not bad, comparing to my Stello-Signature DAC i used at that time.


----------



## jaycalgary

Hi jaycalgary
 You heard any None Oversampling DACs? I find they sound much better than Delta-Sigma DACs including most higher resolution files.
 It might be worth looking at that. My front end changed a lot (for the better) after I abandoned the over sampling hype / Bull.
 Let your ears do the talking.....Redbook can sound amazing.
  
 I don't have a whole lot of experience with dac's. I started with a W4S dac2 and wondered if dac's were just bs because something in the highs didn't seem nice at all. Next I went to a Nad M51 and still use and enjoy this dac. Was a big step up as soon as I heard it. I would consider trying a no oversampling dac though I heard they can sound even better. I listen through usb to a laptop though.


----------



## milosz

dude_500 said:


> Well, the question is difficult to answer on a forum like this. For instance, I can say that in my view point, all DAC's including any modern computer line out are virtually indistinguishable from one-another when loaded with the high impedance of an amplifier input stage. I can also point out that double blind tests have been conducted which back up this claim.
> 
> Of course, at the end of the day, you'll still get a barrage of people saying I'm insane, I don't have good enough gear to hear the difference, I'm not listening right, my ears suck, I don't want to hear a difference, etc... And of course, double blind tests are irrelevant.
> 
> ...


 
 I have heard a difference between a Creative XFi card and my current Asus Xonar card on my desktop speakers. I suspect that the Creative XFi drivers didn't EVER really work right under Windows 7/64.  So I think there IS a difference (in some sense) between the DACs in computer sound cards: they have to be working properly to sound good.
  
 Also, I've noticed a difference between the Xonar PCI-E  card and the motherboard's built-in embedded D/A sound chipset- the embedded Realtek chipset  has some audible hum  / noise.  I think this is coming from a ground loop, but the Xonar doesn't show it and it is using the same chassis as the motherboards' sound solution so I'm not exactly sure how the loop has been established.  Maybe the issue is just not-quite-as-good power supply decoupling in the analog output stage of the Realtek on-board sound, I dunno.    
  
 OK, I know that these AREN'T the kinds of things most people talk about when they talk about DACs sounding better or worse than other DACs... 
  
 I have an Audio-GD  "NFB"-series box with an ES9018 in it and it surely sounds a bit brighter than the WM8741- based DACs I've got.  HOWEVER... I fed analog into that Audio-Gd NFB-10es's amp and that sounded a bit bright, too so I think the issue might be with the headphone amp circuit and not the DAC itself.  I've got to do some more testing on this one.
  
 DACs DO measure differently- some 44 kHz DACs have a noticeable roll-off in the treble, depends on how their antialias filter is set up. Not sure one could hear this, though.  At least _*I*_ couldn't-  the rolloff usually starts well above 10 kHz, and being a geezer, I can only hear to about 12~13 kHz or so- a 1.5 dB loss at 20 kHz tapering back to a 0.5 dB loss at 15 kHz  is completely outside the range of my hearing, and this is kind of the worst rolloff I've seen for a stand-alone DAC that made claims to being "high end."


----------



## dlaloum

Thank you Ali-Pasha ,
  
 Yes I knew about audiocubes, I was hoping there might be an alternative to the pleather ones (velour?, something that doesn't cause sweaty ears?) - but apparently not.
  
 Back on the topic of the SRD7, It arrived this morning 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - but there is a problem.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Someone had shortened the speaker in cables, so I thought I would open it up and check for any other messing about, as well as any possible clues to whether it might be able to handle 240V (although labelled 100V)
  
 On opening I found that 3 resistors on the circuit board are literally snapped in half - in a manner that implies an intentional modification of some sort... here is a pic
  

  
 So what do I do now !?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have ordered a 100V step down - so power supply will no longer be an issue - but these apparently cut/snapped resistors have me freaked!
  
 Vendor is in Japan, and I am in Australia, so shipping is a killer!
  
 The vendor claims that it was working fine as is and that he was not aware of the cut resistors - before I plug in an Earspeaker - I need to know what impact these cut resistors might have, what would happen if I plugged the SRX in, how things would change if I replaced those resistors - and what resistors I should replace them with... etc...
  
 Perhaps someone here might even recognise the board and be able to tell me whether in "intact" form it is a multi-voltage version or single voltage - actually any information and educated opinions would be highly valued.
  
 Although I am no soldering wizz - I can probably handle replacing those resistors.....
  
 help, input, opinions valued!
  
 thanks
  
 David
  
 P.S. here is the unedited picture of the interior of the SRD7:


----------



## zolkis

The original SRD-7 should be able to handle wall socket 100-240V, works with Zener diodes and resistors. Now perhaps someone modded them to be only good for 100 V, perhaps for some alleged sonic benefits for cutting a locally not needed crap, which you would need now...
  
 If you already ordered a transformer, that's your choice, but IMO the item could be considered broken and returned to the seller.
  
 Alternatively, you can replace the resistors yourself, measure the ouputs, or bring it to a local TV repair (if such a thing still exists), they can check it.


----------



## dude_500

milosz said:


> I have heard a difference between a Creative XFi card and my current Asus Xonar card on my desktop speakers. I suspect that the Creative XFi drivers didn't EVER really work right under Windows 7/64.  So I think there IS a difference (in some sense) between the DACs in computer sound cards: they have to be working properly to sound good.
> 
> Also, I've noticed a difference between the Xonar PCI-E  card and the motherboard's built-in embedded D/A sound chipset- the embedded Realtek chipset  has some audible hum  / noise.  I think this is coming from a ground loop, but the Xonar doesn't show it and it is using the same chassis as the motherboards' sound solution so I'm not exactly sure how the loop has been established.  Maybe the issue is just not-quite-as-good power supply decoupling in the analog output stage of the Realtek on-board sound, I dunno.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is true, I wasn't addressing blatant noise issues, which comes up disturbingly frequently in computers. My comment only applies to working setups. I get noise out of my laptop if plugged into the power supply and connected to an earthed amplifier. So I just don't use that configuration.
  
 It is true that rolloffs measure differently, but the differences are basically always inaudible. These days, oversampling lets the filter pass window move so high that it's basically a non issue.

 Forgot to mention, people likely can hear difference between a NOS filterless DAC with a lot of amps since a NOS filterless DAC is a mathematically broken design, and you're inducing all sorts of intermodulation distortion in the amplifier by using a DAC like that.


----------



## dlaloum

The cost and hassle of international shipping makes me pause before sending something back (Shipping out of Australia is remarkably expensive)


zolkis said:


> The original SRD-7 should be able to handle wall socket 100-240V, works with Zener diodes and resistors. Now perhaps someone modded them to be only good for 100 V, perhaps for some alleged sonic benefits for cutting a locally not needed crap, which you would need now...
> 
> If you already ordered a transformer, that's your choice, but IMO the item could be considered broken and returned to the seller.
> 
> Alternatively, you can replace the resistors yourself, measure the ouputs, or bring it to a local TV repair (if such a thing still exists), they can check it.


 
  
 I am considering doing it myself....


----------



## complin

dude_500 said:


> That is true, I wasn't addressing blatant noise issues, which comes up disturbingly frequently in computers. My comment only applies to working setups. I get noise out of my laptop if plugged into the power supply and connected to an earthed amplifier. So I just don't use that configuration.
> 
> It is true that rolloffs measure differently, but the differences are basically always inaudible. These days, oversampling lets the filter pass window move so high that it's basically a non issue.
> 
> ...


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

*Although measurement is one part of the equation its also how the device sounds too. *
  
 In the end,sound is the only thing that really matters.


----------



## 3X0

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe any instrument possesses harmonics that extend beyond 20KHz (nevermind the argument of whether or not humans can perceive it).

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm


----------



## Keithpgdrb

3x0 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe any instrument possesses harmonics that extend beyond 20KHz (nevermind the argument of whether or not humans can perceive it).
> 
> http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm


While this is a good point. Consider something like a dog whistle. Often people can't hear it, but you can feel it in your head when it's blown. So even though it falls to th limits of hearing, the effect can still be acknowledged. Sonance. The non musical noises that give an instrument it's character.


----------



## 3X0

keithpgdrb said:


> While this is a good point. Consider something like a dog whistle. Often people can't hear it, but you can feel it in your head when it's blown. So even though it falls to th limits of hearing, the effect can still be acknowledged. Sonance. The non musical noises that give an instrument it's character.




I'm not convinced that would be accurate. There are some dog whistles that go as "low" as 23KHz which might be perceivable to some humans (additionally let's not discount the possibility of "defective" whistles that would go lower). Secondarily there is some perceived sound from the air that actually passes the whistle which is what most humans will hear.

Assuming the musical noise is the fundamental, the non-musical noises would be completely circumscribed within the harmonics (by definition).

Edit: Depending on the accuracy of this paper, my initial premise may have been inaccurate: http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.htm


----------



## astrostar59

I agree, and LOVE None Oversampling DACs. I would strongly recommend folk to hear a good one at home before going all scientific on it. There are enough paper out there to kill acres of trees, but the fact is none oversampling does sound great, right, real, organic. 

Plus the removal of the filter has the SQ jump again. 

There is a great You Tube video of the guy who actually designed the original Delta-Sigma chipset in the 80s.
The video is recent, and he admits that NONE of the electronic guys working at that firm actually listened to the sound!!!!!!!!!
He said they looked at osiloscopes and measurements only. A few years ago they finally hires what he termed Golden Eared Audiophiles,
and they began to develop the next generation chip sets.

I think the term used for the computer processing with Delta-Sigma anopozing filtering? Spelt wrong, but more or less the word. They tried to fill in the steps to the sound wave by upsampling it, then added a filter to stop the 'ringing' or mirror wave 2 or 3 octaves above the music, the downsampled it back. The theory sounds ok, but to my ears and my 20 years of growing hate of CD sound, it got more and more hi-fi less and less real.

None oversampling, try it, you might well fall in love with it!

NOS DACs
47Labs
Audio Note (like these as tubed)
Metrum


----------



## astrostar59

Hi Guys
Can I ask all 009s owners!

I am very worried this morning. I spotted another post by realmassey about the dreaded 009 imbalance issue. He bought his pair only 3 months back from PJ.

I was told by Chester Audio in UK the issue was only the first batch in 2011, and was resolved.
I looked a bit further back, and many guys have had issues in the least 6 months with 009s less than 12 months old.

So, I am in a mess now. I love the 009 sound but can't justify £3500 on a phone that in 13 months 'may' become a paper weight. I am curious to know how widespread the issue is. I also think at this level Stax should give a lifetime warranty on the drivers, like many high end speaker manufacturers do (pending tests for abuse).

And would / does Stax replace a driver / drivers if the issue crops up outside of warranty. I mean, come on Stax the world most expensive headphone can become junk
in 13 months, this is ridiculous....

Can anyone shed some light on this?


----------



## AnakChan

astrostar59 said:


> Hi Guys
> Can I ask all 009s owners!
> 
> I am very worried this morning. I spotted another post by realmassey about the dreaded 009 imbalance issue. He bought his pair only 3 months back from PJ.
> ...


 
  
 I see you've posted on the other Stax imbalance thread already. I helped a friend pick up a Stax SR-009 in Jan last year and he noticed an imbalance issue. It was sent back to Stax and they replaced the drivers. I also helped another friend buy an SR-009 in June last year, tested it for about a week (or two?) and no problem cropped up so I sent it to him. As he's still waiting for his BHSE, he's not had a chance to test it I think.
  
 I didn't have any problems with mine, nor did @Donnyhifi & @Wallabee. So out of 5x SR-009s bought in the range of Feb '12 -> Jun '13 that I'm aware of, 1 appeared to had imbalanced issue which appeared immediately (although deteriorated over the next few weeks) which was promptly fixed by Stax.
  
 If you're buying the SR-009, hopefully you're having an amp to test it with rather than a lengthy wait for an amp before being able to test it. If so, get an interrim amp at least.


----------



## astrostar59

Hi Anakshan
Thanks for that.

So this issue IS STILL going on with new built 009s then obviously. I am sorry / worried about that.

So my questions are now:

1. Does Stax replace any defective driver out of warranty for free (minus shipping).
2. Does the defect show up in the first few months i.e has anyone had an issue much later on?
3. Has anyone found out what the defect is, and or how to cancel it out (static / discharge / run for a week ect).

This is a mess. Sorry guys, I am pretty mad about this issue.


----------



## AnakChan

astrostar59 said:


> Hi Anakshan
> Thanks for that.
> 
> So this issue IS STILL going on with new built 009s then obviously. I am sorry / worried about that.
> ...


 
  
 I dont' know about "IS" but it "WAS" Jan '13. Whether all that's been weeded out in the past 16 months, I don't know.
  
 1) I actually don't even know how old the warranty is. You should check with PJ if you're buying through them. On that note, to be honest if you're not willing to take any risks, then better buy from an authorised distributor rather than grey market import. Yes local distributor is more expensive but it it'll give you better peace of mind seeing that you're concerned about it even before buying it.
 2) Good question. For my friend's, it was immediate. As he initially stated, when he tested it was probably a 5-10% difference between the L&R channel. After a few weeks that number increased much more but the channel never died completely.
 3) Don't know what the defect is. In the repair receipt, it just said the driver was replaced. He hasn't seen any issues since the replacement.
  
 Note that this isn't specific to SR-009 but it's happened to other models too. However, just to get a better understanding, are you an SR-009 owner? If so, how long?


----------



## paradoxper

Can it be noted for the last time..PJ offers the same standard 1 year warranty as 'authorized dealers.' As long as Stax keeps up with doing repairs from whoever, etc
 it really shouldn't be an issue. It should also be noted that so far no one knows what's causing the issue or the fix. The biggest pain might be dealing with oversea shipping/wait time.
  
 Also, this issue doesn't seem too widespread if you take into account how many units have shipped out comparative to how many imbalance issues have been reported.


----------



## astrostar59

> er, just to get a better understanding, are you an SR-009 owner? If so, how long?




I am to buy this week,having had the 007s for 2 years and various Lambda models (no issues)
for 25 years before then - Lamdda normal, Lambda pro, Lambda Nova Signature (brown frame).

I am told today by Synergy the UK importer the issue has not cropped up in 18 months, and it also
affected the 507 as well at that time.

They say no problems since. And in the UK you get 24 months warranty as a legal requirement in the UK.

There is NO driver lifetime guarantee, but they are saying if an issue occurred Synergy would sort
it out with Stax. This is a verbal promise. I would have no written confirmation or guarantee certificate though.

So, I have come full circle and will probably press on and buy the 009s. I am retired / fixed incomes so I can't
loose 3500 pounds like maybe some can? Dunno. Maybe I am paranoid?
But 3500 is a lot of money on phones, so you may sympathise with my plight?

However living without the 009 sound is also hell, as I have heard it now and need it!


----------



## realmassy

Just to clarify: I bought my 009 from Cheshire Audio, an authorised stax uk dealer. The problem I posted about in the 'imbalance thread' was actually an amp issue, which has been fixed under warranty. 
I has an issue with the 507 a couple of years ago and again the uk importer replaced them with a new pair.
Ah, I would never buy such an expensive item in Japan, i'm happy to pay a bit more and be covered by the official uk warranty...but thats just me


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Ive had mine for 6 months and I have had no problems with them, even after a move to Korea which kind of had me worried for their safety


----------



## AnakChan

@astrostar59, IMHO, just go for it. As others have said and from my little personal experience, chances are low.

Test it when you get it. In the rare case if you have problems, you get great support anyway. And probably the most important thing is that when your problem is resolved the SR-009 is sonically rewarding that you'd forget you had problems with it.


----------



## astrostar59

> @astrostar59, IMHO, just go for it. As others have said and from my little personal experience, chances are low.




Thanks, I think I will do that. The sound has ruined me forever!

Maybe the 009s having issues are mainly from PJ? Dunno. But it seems most issues appear
in a month or so, so I will be covered by Synergy UK distributor (UK Stax importers).

I'll post back here when I have lived with them a few weeks, and more importantly in 2 months
when I get back to Spain and hook up my Audio Note front end.


----------



## kothganesh

anakchan said:


> @astrostar59, IMHO, just go for it. As others have said and from my little personal experience, chances are low.
> 
> Test it when you get it. In the rare case if you have problems, you get great support anyway. And probably the most important thing is that when your problem is resolved the SR-009 is sonically rewarding that you'd forget you had problems with it.


 
 AnakChan:
  
 How do you divvy up your hearing time between the 007 mk1 and the 009 ? These recent posts have got my buyer's adrenalin pumping again !


----------



## dlaloum

Hi Folks,
  
 I have an SRD7 - which is not working...
  
 It appears to have 3 resistors that have been  cut in half (!) - 51k, 100k, 1M - and it is therefore delivering no bias.
  
 It is an early 100V only unit - all the circuit diagrams I have found are for the later multi-voltage units
  
 The other strange thing is that there is no 51k resistor on any of the SRD7 schematics, but it appears on one of the power input lines of the SRD5 schematic.
  
 So it may be that I have an early production SRD7 with a circuit closely related to the SRD5 (I have not traced the circuit... was hoping not to have to !)
  
 Does anyone know a tech in Melbourne (Australia) familiar with Stax headphones and energizers who could help with getting this beastie working again?
  
 bye for now
  
 David


----------



## AnakChan

kothganesh said:


> AnakChan:
> 
> How do you divvy up your hearing time between the 007 mk1 and the 009 ? These recent posts have got my buyer's adrenalin pumping again !


 
  
 Hmmm...that's kinda of a hard one 'cos I do have my mood swings and therefore so are my preferences. Having said that I think I do reach out to the 009s more than the 007Mk1s though. If I dare speak on behalf of my Tokyo Stax friends, for some reason we here in Tokyo seem to lean more towards the 009s whilst our overseas friends mostly seem to sway more towards to the 007Mk1s. To be honest, I don't really know why that's the case - maybe they get access to the BHSE more easily than us. Having said that, I've got an Electra.


----------



## kothganesh

anakchan said:


> Hmmm...that's kinda of a hard one 'cos I do have my mood swings and therefore so are my preferences. Having said that I think I do reach out to the 009s more than the 007Mk1s though. If I dare speak on behalf of my Tokyo Stax friends, for some reason we here in Tokyo seem to lean more towards the 009s whilst our overseas friends mostly seem to sway more towards to the 007Mk1s. To be honest, I don't really know why that's the case - maybe they get access to the BHSE more easily than us. Having said that, I've got an Electra.


 
 Ok, let me ask this question this way: I am classic rock-only person. For this genre, what would you reach for ? I have the KGSShv and the Stax 717. Thanks


----------



## kothganesh

^. Just to add to my last query, my mood swings are between the Beatles and Led Zep, Pink Floyd to Deep Purple, Boston to Jimi Hendrix etc etc


----------



## karlgerman

My experience with the STAX Headphones is, if you have any imbalance problem, it will be from beginning on or will develop in a worse way very quickly.
 My Lambda and the 007Mk2 are flawless from the start.
  
 The 009, a early build version, had a slight imbalance problem from the moment i had it.
 I thought it might disappear after some time of using, especially it was not noticeable after the headphone had some rest for about 10 days or so.
 But i was wrong. It came back very quick and got worse and worse.
 Since i own more than one Amp i was able to exclude a amplification error.
  
 I decided to send it in for repair, but first they could not find any error. After the second attempt STAX Germany replaced it to a brand new Headphone.
 Since then no problem at all and it works perfect.


----------



## jring

dlaloum said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> I have an SRD7 - which is not working...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 what about just replacing the resistors and see what happens? Although if you don't feel at ease with a soldering iron and line voltage, better let sb do it.
  
 As for voltage I think they were all capable of up to 240V AC since they use a zener diode to cap the AC coltage at 82V and then double it but some didn't state so on the box... Here's the schematics anyways - http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6717/srd7ij0.jpg
 If you want to play it safe and are in 220-240 country - use a converter - it doesn't draw a lot of power.
  
 Joachim


----------



## dreamwhisper

I'm trying to find a comparison between the KGSS-HV and the BHSE and the closest thing I can find i s Asr's old mini-review of the BHSE and a regular KGSS.
  
 Has anyone done a comparison of the BHSE with the KGSS-HV?


----------



## astrostar59

Not sure how relevant a comparison review would be between the DIY built KGSSHV and the factory (consistent) BHSE.

Sure the builders follow circuit diagrams, but the case is be-spoke and other variables may / probably will slant the SQ a bit?

While on that, does the source / actual manufacture of the trans and capacitors remain the same throughout all builds. You
know those 2 elements have a big effect on the SQ as regards component choice and quality.


----------



## astrostar59

Going back to that, if Justin built some KGSSHV I would be on the list!


----------



## purk

dreamwhisper said:


> I'm trying to find a comparison between the KGSS-HV and the BHSE and the closest thing I can find i s Asr's old mini-review of the BHSE and a regular KGSS.
> 
> Has anyone done a comparison of the BHSE with the KGSS-HV?


 
 I have both and the BHSE has more transparent sound.  It also has better clarity & details with larger & deeper soundstage.  The KGSSHV (500 V version) is warmer with slightly punchier sound.  Overall, the BHSE is more refined to my ears but the KGSSHV might be more "fun" sounding to some people.  The DIY T2 actually combine all the good characters of both the  KGSSHV & BHSE with even more textured bass & deeper & wider soundstage.  Note that each KGSSHV may sound slightly difference as this is depending on parts & voltage use.


----------



## milosz

Years ago (and I mean DECADES, sonny....) I had a pair of ESP-9's, an SAE preamp and a Citation XII, AR XA turntable, ADC XLM and a Shure V15-III, Akai open reel, Dynaco FM5. Infinity speakers. _QUITE_ THE SYSTEM for a college kid in 1971. (I had worked in a factory full time while taking 12 hours of physics, chemistry and math at university- don't ask me how I did that. I get tired now just writing it. In fact, I get tired now just THINKING about writing about it.) The speakers were all I could afford- but the headphones were about the best you could get back then.
  
 Time goes by....
  
 I had a pair of Sennheiser HD-580's.  Decent enough... didn't listen to them much.  Wasn't really into the hifi addiction all that much, had some gear but mostly just listened to what I had, NAD and Boston Acoustics. 
  
 Then in 2002 I had a relapse of _audiophilia gearitis,_ and I started building, buying, listening, trying...  Sat down one day and plugged the HD-580's into a Sugden integrated amp's headphone jack, and thought, "Hey these sound pretty good... wonder if a dedicated headphone amp would really sound better..."
  
 I became a bit of a headphone nut, kind of, collected a whole bunch of dynamic 'phones & amps, built a bunch of amps, etc and so forth.
  
 Added a Stax Lambda Signature and an SRM-T1.  Whoa. What detail! Great LF extension, overall clarity....  and all without the "bleeding ear treble peak" of the otherwise excellent Sennheiser HD-800's. Got a pair of Koss ESP-950's.  Yeah, these are great, too. A pair of 007 Mk I's.... tried an SRM-1 mk II but sold it, no real advantage for me over the SRM-T1, in fact I liked the T1 a little better... sold off almost all my dynamic and planar 'phones, building a T2 for like two years now....
  
 Electrostatics are really where it's at.  When new dynamics come on the market, I hardly pay attention.  New planars, yeah, I'll read about them but am not really tempted to buy.  All I feel I need are my electrostatics.  (And the 67,000  FLAC tracks on my server....I have LPs  too but don't use headphones on that system)
  
 Electrostatics have a "HEAR-THROUGH" quality  that I just don't get from dynamic or planar phones.
  
   
 By the way, none of my electrostatic 'phones have a channel imbalance.  I bought them all used, they have all worked just fine.  I've heard of people having imbalances, but aamong the Koss ESP-950's and five pair of Stax 'phones I've bought used, NONE had channel imbalances.


----------



## astrostar59

> Note that each KGSSHV may sound slightly difference as this is depending on parts & voltage use


. 

I would times that by quite a bit actually. I have worked with tube amp manufacturers and amplifier kit suppliers for quite a few years
and the end SQ changes quite a bit depending on the specs of the Capacitors (Black Gate were supreme but now not made),. Resistors (Tantalums are good)
Transformers quality (build quality, wide band, noise etc).

Just because the circuit is a certain design doesn't guarantee the exact SQ on offer. Put top parts into it and it will probably go to another level IMHO.
The opposite is also true. So unless a circuit design states exactly the rating and make of a part to use.....


----------



## arnaud

kothganesh said:


> ^. Just to add to my last query, my mood swings are between the Beatles and Led Zep, Pink Floyd to Deep Purple, Boston to Jimi Hendrix etc etc




Difficult to say. Probably depends on how you drive the omega 2. However, I can imagine the 009 getting tiring after a while if that is all you listen to all day and / or at fairly high volume level.


----------



## arnaud

astrostar59 said:


> . ...and the end SQ changes quite a bit depending on the specs of the Capacitors (Black Gate were supreme but now not made)....




I didn't only read praise about blackgates from diy guys (spritzer comes to mind). Not that I have made the test myself but wasn't this more a case of strong brand image / pretty jacket than actual superior performance for the bloody expensive BG?


----------



## astrostar59

The BlackGates are highly regarded in the amplifier industry as amongst the best. Audio Note UK put them in
there top models and I can say, they do sound amazingly good. Burn in is 400 hours!


----------



## FrankCooter

Over the years I've used a lot of Black Gates in DIY tube projects. They were probably the best electrolytic capacitors ever built. That said, the sonic differences between Black Gates and most other electrolytics were small and  incremental, especially considering the large price premium.
 Lots of other places (like transformer upgrades) to get more "bang for the buck" when selecting parts for an amp.
  
 A dirty little secret well known to DIYers is that all capacitors are sonic killers, and none more so than electrolytics. I don't use any electrolytics in my projects unless there is absolutely no alternative.


----------



## georgep

frankcooter said:


> Over the years I've used a lot of Black Gates in DIY tube projects. They were probably the best electrolytic capacitors ever built. That said, the sonic differences between Black Gates and most other electrolytics were small and  incremental, especially considering the large price premium.
> 
> 
> Lots of other places (like transformer upgrades) to get more "bang for the buck" when selecting parts for an amp.
> ...



 


Frank, are they only a problem when in the signal path? So if electrolytics are used in the psu for example, there are no negative effects on the sound?

By the way, haven't heard any of your amps, but your casework is incredible.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

milosz said:


> Electrostatics are really where it's at.  When new dynamics come on the market, I hardly pay attention.  New planars, yeah, I'll read about them but am not really tempted to buy.  All I feel I need are my electrostatics.  (And the 67,000  FLAC tracks on my server....I have LPs  too but don't use headphones on that system)
> 
> Electrostatics have a "HEAR-THROUGH" quality  that I just don't get from dynamic or planar phones.


 
  
 Soooo true. I would never have given such an accurate description of my interest in headphones earspeakers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## negura

frankcooter said:


> Over the years I've used a lot of Black Gates in DIY tube projects. They were probably the best electrolytic capacitors ever built. That said, the sonic differences between Black Gates and most other electrolytics were small and  incremental, especially considering the large price premium.
> Lots of other places (like transformer upgrades) to get more "bang for the buck" when selecting parts for an amp.
> 
> A dirty little secret well known to DIYers is that all capacitors are sonic killers, and none more so than electrolytics. I don't use any electrolytics in my projects unless there is absolutely no alternative.


----------



## purk

astrostar59 said:


> .
> 
> I would times that by quite a bit actually. I have worked with tube amp manufacturers and amplifier kit suppliers for quite a few years
> and the end SQ changes quite a bit depending on the specs of the Capacitors (Black Gate were supreme but now not made),. Resistors (Tantalums are good)
> ...


 
 Certainly can be "quite a bit" but one must remember that most KGSSHVs are very well build using a really good parts already, hence, the difference will be audible but not a night and day.


----------



## FrankCooter

" Frank, are they only a problem when in the signal path? So if electrolytics are used in the psu for example, there are no negative effects on the sound?"

In solid-state amps, because of the large capacitances required, there is usually no practical substitute for electrolytics in the power supply. In tube amps, substitution of film caps for electrolytics in power supply filters is usually an audible improvement. Of course film caps of appropriate voltage and capacitance values are much bulkier and more expensive than equivalent electrolytics, hence are rarely employed in commercial products.

Another traditional but non-optimal use of electrolytics in tube amps is the cathode bypasses. Film caps (or better yet solutions that don't involve capacitors at all) are better here as well. Again space and economics are the overiding factors.

Oops! Screwed up the quote. Sorry about that.


----------



## dlaloum

Thanks Joachim,
  
 I have that schematic - but the circuit board in here does not look like that schematic.
  
 It looks a lot more like the SRD5 schematic with the 50k resistor on the power input (with a switch which replaces the 50k with a 250k to switch from 100V to 240V... on the SRD5, the SRD7 has no such switch).
  
 Hence my question ! - this appears like an earlier circuit layout, more closely related to its SRD5 predecessor.
  
 I may just have to trace it
  
 bye for now
 David


----------



## jcx

ES amps being balanced have much less sensitivity to PS - as long as both outputs are affected equally any PS "error" doesn't cause a difference signal to hear
  
 PS electrolytics are even used by the Stax mafia - but they do usually insist on regulation too


----------



## FrankCooter

jcx said:


> ES amps being balanced have much less sensitivity to PS - as long as both outputs are affected equally any PS "error" doesn't cause a difference signal to hear
> 
> PS electrolytics are even used by the Stax mafia - but they do usually insist on regulation too


 
  
 True as far as it goes, but I wasn't talking about error correction. Electrolytics, in the signal path (like the last capacitor in the power supply) generate artifacts that in some cases can  be heard and subjectively described as adding a "glare" or "sheen" to the amplifier. The advantage of Black Gates was the minimization of these artifacts. Regulation won't affect the inherent properties of the filter caps. Whether the sonics of any particular amp or circuit is affected by the type of capacitors employed in the power supply I couldn't say.
  
 BTW, not all electrostatic amps are fully balanced.


----------



## jcx

I was using "error" to include anything that might color the sound - assuming the usual physical materialism point of view that anything about amps/circuit components that can be "really" be heard (under controlled conditions, with Blinding protocol, by more than one person...) has a technical circuit cause, involves measureable V or I changes in the headphone drive
  
 and can you name a "High End" ES headphone amp that isn't balanced Stator drive?


----------



## FrankCooter

jcx said:


> I was using "error" to include anything that might color the sound - assuming the usual physical materialism point of view that anything about amps/circuit components that can be "really" be heard (under controlled conditions, with Blinding protocol, by more than one person...) has a technical circuit cause, involves measureable V or I changes in the headphone drive
> 
> and can you name a "High End" ES headphone amp that isn't balanced Stator drive?


 
  
 So if I'm understanding you correctly, all component differences and artifacts in a balanced power supply, such as diode switching noise, recovery times, capacitor ESR, frequency ratings, etc. are cancelled out along with I and V errors? And if this is so, then why do we even need to regulate a balanced supply at all? Not saying you're wrong here, just curious.
  
 All ES amps of course have balanced stator drive. Not all ES amps are "fully balanced" as you stated. Maybe it's not "high end", but I use a three stage 845 amp to drive ES headphones. It's all single-ended up to the output transformer, which then splits the signal into balanced mode.


----------



## jcx

never said any such thing of course - less sensitive is not totally immune - and PS with just rectification and filtering without regulation for the output stage is common in audio amps - even SE - but push-pull balanced output drive is a lot more immune to PS Ripple, Sag, non zero impedance...
  
 push-pull balanced output drive is the standard for direct drive ES amps - easy to name a 1/2 dozen balanced push-pull ES headphone amp designs, to one that isn't
  
 I was mostly objecting to the seeming categorical dismissal of electrolytic caps - they work well enough that you find them in most $k ES headphone amp power supplies - even at these levels few want to spend for brick sized film caps needed to give similar technical performance
  
 sometimes diminishing returns are really not worth pursuing - there really are audible thresholds below which differences can't be heard
  
  
 as a conceptual art project 100s of uF of kV rated film caps could be justified for the "infinite" life - but using films as PS reservoir caps fails coming close to audibility thresholds from the engineering numbers for electrical circuit performance effects vs electrolytic caps, particularly with regulation, added immunity of balanced push-pull output
  
@100db100V sensitivity you need 1 V across full size Stax headphones to even be at the human hearing threshold after minutes of adaptation in an anechoic chamber - compare to:


> KG on the KGSSHV PS:
> 
> Tests indicate about 12 microvolts of noise at full power. Its when the diodes turn on, and
> using the 35ns soft recovery diodes, even ceramic caps across them make no difference.
> ...


 
  
 derated modern electrolytics ran cool will last decades and occupy a fraction of the volume and price - the volume and price advantage giving plenty of scope for adding circuitry to improve actual performance - which may well involve smaller film caps where they do make a difference


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Hi guys!
 
Birgir and Kevin have done us all a solid, and I'm gonna need some help getting electrostatic cans in for measurement.
 
Really the easiest way to tell you about it is just to point you here:
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/stax-mafia-makes-unrefusable-offer-and-i-begin-electrostatic-headphone-measurement-program
 
Looking forward to a bunch of new estat measurements! 
 
 
Thanks Birgir and Kevin! Imma make good use out of the KGSSSRE.


----------



## MacedonianHero

tyll hertsens said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Birgir and Kevin have done us all a solid, and I'm gonna need some help getting electrostatic cans in for measurement.
> 
> ...


 
 Enjoy! 
  
 I love the KGSS and KGSSHV! That one looks like a real beauty!


----------



## mangler

tyll hertsens said:


> [COLOR=222222]Hi guys![/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=222222]Birgir and Kevin have done us all a solid, and I'm gonna need some help getting electrostatic cans in for measurement.[/COLOR]
> 
> ...




Very exciting! I can't wait to see how the vintage models measure.


----------



## milosz

Frank
  
 Couple things I'd like your opinion on-
  
 Have you found that using a film cap  as the last cap in the PSU is sufficient, or do you need to replace all the electrolytics with film?
  
 I've seen quite a few designs where the aluminum electrolytics in the PSU  and the on-board "demand" electrolytics in solid state amps are bypassed with one or two film caps- does that ameliorate the sonic problems caused by electrolytics or is it just wishful thinking?
  
 And last but not least-  Black Gates are gone, but there are now other "audio grade" electrolytics - Silmic & Cerafine from Elna, and Muse from Nichicon - have you heard  these? Do you think they offer sonic benefit over the regular good quality but otherwise garden-variety Panasonic caps?


----------



## Fearless1

Hello,
  
 My first foray into electrostatics is happening as I type this. I just received an SR-007 Omega  MK ii and a SR-007t on audition and can buy if I like the combo. Needless to say, I am definitely buying (wow).....
  
 Here is the question I have for you guys, Does the SR-007t take the Omega MK ii to the height of where it can go sound wise? , or should I just buy the headphone end of this deal (an offer he gave me ) and look to another amp?
  
 Budget(within reason) is not an issue, so any suggestions if I should not buy the whole combo would be appreciated.
  
  
 Thanks!


----------



## davidsh

fearless1 said:


> Hello,
> 
> My first foray into electrostatics is happening as I type this. I just received an SR-007 Omega  MK ii and a SR-007t on audition and can buy if I like the combo. Needless to say, I am definitely buying (wow).....
> 
> ...



I'd guess you'd be better off with 717 or 727. Question is, where does the 323 stand against the 007t?


----------



## Hun7er

The SR007 with SRM007t sounds very dark with uncontrolled bass and muddy medium.


----------



## davidsh

hun7er said:


> The SR007 with SRM007t sounds very dark with uncontrolled bass and muddy medium.



Yet it must sound more controlled than 006/t1?


----------



## Mr.Sneis

He's probably better off with the 007t than the 323s though they still need more amp; lesser of two evils.


----------



## FrankCooter

milosz said:


> Frank
> 
> Couple things I'd like your opinion on-
> 
> ...


 

 All right, one last go at the  electrolytic/film capacitor "debate" and then  I'll forever shut up about it. And to keep jcx happy, I freely admit that all my experience in this area is empirical and annecdotal.
  
 My response to the first question is that the last cap in the PSU, which is directly in the audio path, is by far the most affected by upgrading an electrolytic to a film cap. When I first started building SET amps in the early 90's I made numerous direct comparisons (usually with simple "brute-force" supplies) of the two types in this position. The difference was easy to hear, and the film cap was always the winner. You could also hear it (to a lesser degree) in a push-pull, zero feedback DHT amp. Since then, since all my amps are DIY,  and I'm not concerned about space or economy issues, I usually use film caps in all positions. Probably doesn't make much difference as long as the last one is film.
  
 I've never experimented with using film caps as electrolytic bypasses. I've read mixed results about the effectiveness of film bypasses
  
 I've used all the brands of electrolytics you mentioned. I can't tell any difference between them and decent "garden-variety" electrolytics. Black Gates (and perhaps it was just  my aching wallet talking)  seemed to have a bit less of the usual "glare" or "sheen" that I associate with electrolytics.
  
 Again to be clear, I am not criticizing any commercial product or designer for using electrolytics. If I was a commercial builder I'd use them too.There's really no choice. As a DIYer I am free to choose any capacitors I want, and I choose film whenever possible..


----------



## jgazal

Thanks FrankCooter and jcx, in alphabetical order, for sharing your knowledge. This post in Tube CAD Journal was my previous knowledge about the subject and you both helped to fill some blanks in my mind. There is no conclusion without thesis and antithesis. I wish we had more of such debates here.


----------



## Fearless1

Last line of questions, and thanks for the replies.
  
 Does the SRE 725  extension detract from SQ at all?  Are there any other makers of extension cables?  
  
 Thanks again.


----------



## milosz

frankcooter said:


> All right, one last go at the  electrolytic/film capacitor "debate" and then  I'll forever shut up about it. And to keep jcx happy, I freely admit that all my experience in this area is empirical and annecdotal.
> 
> My response to the first question is that the last cap in the PSU, which is directly in the audio path, is by far the most affected by upgrading an electrolytic to a film cap. When I first started building SET amps in the early 90's I made numerous direct comparisons (usually with simple "brute-force" supplies) of the two types in this position. The difference was easy to hear, and the film cap was always the winner. You could also hear it (to a lesser degree) in a push-pull, zero feedback DHT amp. Since then, since all my amps are DIY,  and I'm not concerned about space or economy issues, I usually use film caps in all positions. Probably doesn't make much difference as long as the last one is film.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you sir.
  
 The only gear I've ever used which had all film caps was a Conrad Johnson PV10. All film caps in the PSU, except for the filament supply.  It was a nice sounding preamp, measured well too but I don't know how much of the good sound came from the PSU film filter caps.  I had a C-J PV7, it used electrolytics in the PSU, it sounded good to me, too.
  This topic isn't SPECIFICALLY Stax-related, except that a few folks DO build their own amps for Stax, and if they are doing so they need food for thought; if ANYTHING is going to allow one to hear minute improvements in sound, seems to me it would be a pair of Stax 'phones, and so when doing a DIY tube electrostatic amp  it might well make sense to consider the use of film caps in the PSU.


----------



## gilency

Don't worry about the cables.
 Headphones > amplifiers > everything else


----------



## n3rdling

Yes, but I'd add a few more '>'s between headphones and amplifiers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Nice amp Tyll!  I think I have the same DC supply laying around and wanted to use it for the same application.  I'm going to guess that most Lambdas through the years measure very similarly in FR and maybe a little differently in square waves.


----------



## dlaloum

Hi Folks,
  
 how do I measure the bias voltage at the output of my SRD box?
  
 A Standar multimeter ? set to DC? between which pins?
  
  
 Also what happens if you run a pair of ELS headphones at too high or too low a bias voltage?
  
 thanks


----------



## davidsh

You cant use an ordinary multimeter (maybe you can if you know the resistance of the multimeter and the layout of the srd).
Too high bias = not good
Too low bias = okay


----------



## FrankCooter

Just got a pair of new 007Mk2 . They're even the dreaded sz3's. I know it's usually "Mk1's or go home" around here, but these are actually a very fine headphone in their own right. Compared to my 507's they have more depth, resolution, and better imaging. And though they may be a bit bright on top compared to the Mk1's (which I've heard many times), they are nowhwere near the 507's in this area. Many of the Mk1's I see at meets are starting to show their age. I passed on a couple of used ones. With the kind of electronics I use, (NOS dac, all tube DIY amp) a little extra energy on top and a hint of bass bloom might even be a good thing. On all-tube amps, the Mk1's, to me at least, can sound a little remote. I'm actually a bit surprised and pleased, as no way could I ever afford an 009. The three previous Lambda's I've owned have never really meshed with my tastes in music (mostly classic rock) or electronics (analog / tube). These pull it off. Definitely worth a look.


----------



## gilency

Congrats Frank.
 Your stunning amps make any Stax sing.


----------



## dlaloum

I thought one could get an idea of whether the Bias is in the right ballpark by measuring between Ground and the final 5M load resistor (ie not at the headphone pinouts)?
  
 I am trying to both check the Bias and adjust the unit to run on 240V as it is a 100V only Vintage Japanese SRD7. - It is also a very early one, as the circuit is not the later SRD7 circuit but a slightly modified SRD5 circuit....
  
 I have fitted the 250k resistor (replacing the 50k resistor, actually a 270K R as the local electronics store was out of 250k's would like to confirm what would be the ideal R for this position given local power voltage is 240V but tends to be 245V on average, and sometimes as high as 252V) - as per the SRD5 240V switch position....
  
 But right now I still have it running on 110V - and have measured 70V before the load resistor.
  

  
 At the pinouts I measure 47V.
  
 I expect that when I switch to 240V the V just before the 5M resistor should jump up to around 154V - and based on other peoples measurements (using Multimeters) of bias voltages I have a feeling that this is right in the ballpark given the limitations of a 10M impedance DMM.....
  
 Looking for some form of confirmation.
  
 Also if anyone could chime in with what would be the ideal R for that initial power input resistor that would be great!
  
 Is optimal performance achieved with the standard spec 230V bias, or is there a gain from running marginally higher bias? And if so what are the safe limitations for long term life of the headphones?
  
 It seems I may be able to "tune" the bias by selecting the right input R...
  
 thanks
  
 David


----------



## astrostar59

Hi Frank
What NOS DAC have you got?

I endorse your point about the 007s Mk2.5. I had a pair for 12 months and loved them with my Audio Note NOS DAC front end.
They get slated here, I believe too much IMHO. With a balanced system (components that gel together) I think they offer one of the best headphone set ups available. Yes, the bass is slightly bloomy maybe? And the mid to high treble slightly recessed. I did not feel it was loosing much information or enjoyments regardless. In fact I would say the 007s are a better match for many modern SS DACs.

I have now got some 009s which are quite a different signature, more 507 on steroids than a development of the 007s. The 009s have a wider soundstage, more detail and about the same bass as the 007s but more texture and a bit more low end response and slam. The increased detail of the 009s takes the experience to a higher level and a more realistic level I would say, but to do that successfully I think the 009s need a clean front end even more than the 007s do. No where to hide comes to mind. 

I'll know more on that once I get my KGSSHV built. I kinda miss my 007s right now, but it is not financially possible to keep both for me, and the 009s just give me more music. There is no denying the 007s signature though, it also has it's merits.


----------



## FrankCooter

Right now I'm using an Audio Note 2.1B kit dac. I just purchased a used Metrum Hex. Should be here in a few days. Been on an upgrade binge recently due to cleaning out years of accumulated  tubes and components. The real fun will began when my best effort at a Stax system will go head-to-head with my best effort at an LCD-3 system. In the end, only one will stay.
  
 Your impressions of the 507's and 009's mirror my own. My favorite Stax has always been the original Omega. Wished they'd taken the 009 more in this direction.
  
 Greetings Gilency! Appreciate the complement! Hope to see you in August at the LA meet with your Megatron.


----------



## Hun7er

I'm looking for your comparison between the AN and Hex


----------



## paradoxper

frankcooter said:


> Right now I'm using an Audio Note 2.1B kit dac. I just purchased a used Metrum Hex. Should be here in a few days. Been on an upgrade binge recently due to cleaning out years of accumulated  tubes and components. The real fun will began when my best effort at a Stax system will go head-to-head with my best effort at an LCD-3 system. In the end, only one will stay.


 
 That mean the Octave lost out to the AN kit?


----------



## FrankCooter

A little off-topic, but I do own a Metrum Octave. I like it a lot. Despite being radically different designs, the Metrum and the Audio Note sound very similar. The Metrum is a little quieter and a little tighter in the bass. The Audio Note is a little lusher and more analog sounding in the midrange. Both are distinctively different from the majority of modern high-end dacs, and both would probably be considered somewhat rolled-off and sluggish by most modern audiophiles. Basically I'm looking for a digital version of a high-end vinyl sound. So far, these two are as close as I've been able to get. Hoping the Hex takes everything up a level. It was a coin flip  between the Hex and upgrading the Audio Note. Went with the Hex because because I got a great deal.


----------



## Lornecherry

...try a fully loaded Empirical Audio Overdrive SE (with the Hynes upgrade). It has that lush midrange and warmth, and is very 3D holographic... but is also extended at both ends; with bass that can hit hard (with the right amp and speakers) and no top end roll-off. Not cheap ($6,400), but I really like it in my system with the Stax 007; now I see the only weak link is my Stax amp. And don't rule out the Hugo. Maintains the wonderful vinyl-like midrange of the Chord QB76, does DSD, and costs so little (comparably). It really does give a lot of high end DACs a run for the money. Anything Rob Watts does might be right up your ally, as Chord's midrange is very good throughout their digital lineup.
  
 I've had the usual candidates (Berkley, Weiss, even a top-end Dodson) in my system for trials and the two closest to vinyl were Chord DACS and now the Empirical OD. Granted, I haven't listened to the Meitner, Esoteric, or the other real big boys except at shows, but many of those I find too clinical for my liking anyway. Best I've heard recently besides the two that I own is new PS Audio DSD ...way, way better than the old PerfectWave and smooth like butter on everything.
  
 If none of those tickle your fancy and you want the best old-school; then look/listen/feel? some of the better NOS DAC's (Gordon Rankin's Wavelength stuff comes to mind). I also heard Triode at the show in Chicago. (The Japan company, not the Canadian one). All tubed DAC, preamp and those giant tube monoblocks...man those things hit hard with enough slam not to make me think of SS amps or SS anything. That was tubes done right. I'm sure a lot it had to do with the massive $22K amps, but their front end was very good too, and not outrageously priced. When I put my Chord Hugo in the chain it also sounded good; though again, the tubed Triode DAC had somewhat better synergy with this system. Triode takes this, and the Acoustic Zen speakers around to most big shows, so have a listen...this is digital done right...and the extensive listening I did was mostly 44.1 burns of CD's...nothing hi res.
  
 Anyway, that's my ear milage for the past year. Hope that helps.


----------



## mangler

frankcooter said:


> Just got a pair of new 007Mk2 . They're even the dreaded sz3's. I know it's usually "Mk1's or go home" around here, but these are actually a very fine headphone in their own right. Compared to my 507's they have more depth, resolution, and better imaging. And though they may be a bit bright on top compared to the Mk1's (which I've heard many times), they are nowhwere near the 507's in this area. Many of the Mk1's I see at meets are starting to show their age. I passed on a couple of used ones. With the kind of electronics I use, (NOS dac, all tube DIY amp) a little extra energy on top and a hint of bass bloom might even be a good thing. On all-tube amps, the Mk1's, to me at least, can sound a little remote. I'm actually a bit surprised and pleased, as no way could I ever afford an 009. The three previous Lambda's I've owned have never really meshed with my tastes in music (mostly classic rock) or electronics (analog / tube). These pull it off. Definitely worth a look.




Totally agree with you, Frank! My O2.5 is sooo sweet and inviting, that I could almost care less that it's not 100% neutral. It does the wrong things right  Even so, I find the 007 Mk2.5 sounds very, very natural, mutch more so than any other headphone I've ever heard


----------



## Jodet

I send in two email requests to Stax USA, was thinking of buying a pair of 007mk2's or maybe even 009's. 
  
 They never replied. 
  
 Seriously?   The company gets bought and they don't fix the horrendous US customer service?
  
 I'll never buy a Stax product until they straighten out their US distributor and it looks like they never will.


----------



## paradoxper

You might want to instead contact a dealer such as Headamp, Woo, etc. Though I believe they're currently out of stock on the 009's ATM.


----------



## AnalogSavior

jodet said:


> I send in two email requests to Stax USA, was thinking of buying a pair of 007mk2's or maybe even 009's.
> 
> They never replied.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You know, I've been looking into getting into electrostatic headphones, mainly looking at entry level systems like the SRS2170 and the Koss ESP950.  I was wondering how their warranty and service was like, and honestly, this doesn't exactly inspire confidence.


----------



## livewire

analogsavior said:


> You know,* I've been looking into getting into electrostatic headphones*, mainly looking at entry level systems like the SRS2170 and the Koss ESP950.  I was wondering how their warranty and service was like, and honestly, this doesn't exactly inspire confidence.


 
  
*DEW EET! ^^^*
  
*Wha? The Koss ESP950 lifetime warranty - no questions asked, doesn't inspire confidence?*
  
*On that note, Stax just sux. One just needs faith and a little luck.*
*Correct handling of electrostat equipment also goes a long way to ensure it's survival.*
  
*I own the SRS2170 and it's all broke now.*
*It did give me two years of exceptional sound quality for the price I paid. (~$500 new at the time)*
*It is unfortunate their stuff isn't built to a higher standard.*
*So the moral is: if your wanna play you gotta pay.*


----------



## davidsh

Yeah, it's fine with people and their 30+ yr old Stax stuff that works well etc., but my impression is that significant risk is involved with owning an electrostat and Stax doesn't exactly have great costumer service. It's a shame. My LS has almost been reduced to junk due to noise and channel imbalance and there isn't much I can do about it. It didn't have problems for half a year when I bought it.
 The other Stax stuff I have hasn't given me any problems yet.


----------



## milosz

RE: Frank Cooter / SR-007 SZ3
  
 I had a pair of those, sold them and got Mk I's.  I like the Mk I's better, but there is something to be said for the SZ3's.  I think the SZ3's sounded really nice on orchestral & chamber music- i.e., acoustic concert-hall type music. CLASSICAL music is the term used by some but that actually denotes a specific style / time period in European orchestral music, and I am not a big fan of the 19th century  warhorses.Early music, yes; baroque sure, 20th century - yep.  OK Beethoven and Mozart are great, but Brahms, Haydn, etc etc- no thanks.
  
 Anyway the midbass "lift" of the SR-007 SZ3's along with a little extra sparkle on top usually makes a lot of orchestral stuff sound quite good, IMHO


----------



## Arnaldo

You hit the nail on the head with this one. I can also do baroque and 20th Century music, but the so-called romantic warhorses bore me to death. Compounding the problem, composers such as Berlioz, Bruckner, Dvorak, Mahler and Tchaikovsky seem to dominate the classical repertoire, both in live concerts and recordings. OTOH, while I can deal with Beethoven's chamber and piano output, Schubert and specially Mozart seem just too predictable. Instead, give me on one hand the likes of Stravinsky, Bartok, Prokofiev and Hindemith, while on the other, Bach, Handel and (Domenico) Scarlatti, among many others. Most works by these guys sound gloriously detailed on SACD recordings via the SR-009, even if somewhat handicapped by my far-from-perfect SRM-727II...
  
  
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *milosz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> [...]  CLASSICAL music is the term used by some but that actually denotes a specific style / time period in European orchestral music, and I am not a big fan of the 19th century  warhorses.Early music, yes; baroque sure, 20th century - yep.  OK Beethoven and Mozart are great, but Brahms, Haydn, etc etc- no thanks [...]


----------



## AnalogSavior

livewire said:


> *DEW EET! ^^^*
> 
> *Wha? The Koss ESP950 lifetime warranty - no questions asked, doesn't inspire confidence?*
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Koss definitely makes me feel more comfortable taking the plunge into electrostatic headphones.  I've heard good things about their service.  I haven't tried them before, but from what I've heard, I don't mind going in blind.
  
 Stax on the other hand makes me nervous from what I've heard.  I've briefly had the chance to listen to some Lambdas (don't remember which) and SR007s, and I liked them both.  I don't mind paying to try and get to know a new product, and if it doesn't work out, flipping it.  However, I really can't afford the risk of them failing so quickly at the moment.
  
  
 Quote:


davidsh said:


> Yeah, it's fine with people and their 30+ yr old Stax stuff that works well etc., but my impression is that significant risk is involved with owning an electrostat and Stax doesn't exactly have great costumer service. It's a shame. My LS has almost been reduced to junk due to noise and channel imbalance and there isn't much I can do about it. It didn't have problems for half a year when I bought it.
> The other Stax stuff I have hasn't given me any problems yet.


 
  
 Hmmm...as much I'd like to, I might have to pass on Stax right now.  The Koss with the warranty seems to be the better option for me at the moment.
  
 Thanks for the replys.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Analog, I would think buying from a authorized reseller with a warranty like Headamp, Woo, or Elusive Disc would put your mind at ease.  The Koss are great but it's not uncommon for them to have squeal issues right out of the box.  The Lifetime warranty IS very nice especially in this case.
  
 There's a lot of REALLY old Stax gear that is still working well; you'd be surprised.  The problem I think is neglgent previous owners or misinformed previous owners.  It sounds like you are more cautious than adventurous however.


----------



## purk

mr.sneis said:


> Analog, I would think buying from a authorized reseller with a warranty like Headamp, Woo, or Elusive Disc would put your mind at ease.  The Koss are great but it's not uncommon for them to have squeal issues right out of the box.  The Lifetime warranty IS very nice especially in this case.
> 
> *There's a lot of REALLY old Stax gear that is still working well; you'd be surprised.  The problem I think is neglgent previous owners or misinformed previous owners.  It sounds like you are more cautious than adventurous however.*


 
 My Lambda Pro continues to work like charm and its over 20 year old as well.  1987 was the mfg.date to be exact.


----------



## AnalogSavior

Thanks for the reply. I've actually been looking into the authorized dealers, and how the service process works. Outside of a few stories about the service by Yama's, it seems like anything bought new from the US shouldn't have any issues.

At this moment in time, I am a little more cautious when approaching stats than dynamics, as I don't have much experience with them.

I have however read great impression about the 2170 (and the Koss) here and on other sites, so most of my concerns at this point have been taken care of.



purk said:


> My Lambda Pro continues to work like charm and its over 20 year old as well.  1987 was the mfg.date to be exact.




That's very impressive. Seems to fit my impression that Stax are for the most part well built.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

analogsavior said:


> Thanks for the reply. I've actually been looking into the authorized dealers, and how the service process works. Outside of a few stories about the service by Yama's, it seems like anything bought new from the US shouldn't have any issues.
> 
> At this moment in time, I am a little more cautious when approaching stats than dynamics, as I don't have much experience with them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 FWIW I've heard Accutech is not too shabby on repairs or even the cost (they are the official Stax repair service) for old gear - they have bad communication I have read however.
  
 My best advice is to choose wisely from the start.  I recently went on a Stax binge earlier this year and pretty much lost my hat on some gear when trying to re-sell.  People on ebay and HF in general these days not willing to pay as much even for well kept gear it seems.  What shocks me are those roulette specials (Untested, crappy pictures, clueless sellers) that pop up on ebay every now and then which people end up paying top dollar for.  I like to think I'm not an idiot when it comes to these things and I thought I did my homework but turns out I still got beat by the market.


----------



## justin w.

jodet said:


> I send in two email requests to Stax USA, was thinking of buying a pair of 007mk2's or maybe even 009's.
> 
> They never replied.
> 
> ...




I have these things in stock, but am currently unable to get more new product from the distributor. I dont know why.

Sr-007 is extremely reliable but sr-009 can have imbalance issues


----------



## AnakChan

This is almost tempting to buy another SR-009. It'll go sell very quickly though at this price (approx USD$2917) :-


----------



## okw3188

I've got a pair of airbow SC-21 with imbalance issue. Despite using match pair of tubes on SRM-006ts, left side has to increase to marking on volume knob "1.5" on my SRM-006Ts, while the right side is at zero. Is it normal for this amount of offset?


----------



## Tachikoma

Have you tried discharging the headphones (unplug headphones and touch bias pin)? That seems a bit much for a modern-ish Stax headphone.
  
 With my vintage headphones, sometimes the offset will go away if you leave the headphones on long enough (about a day).


----------



## okw3188

tachikoma said:


> Have you tried discharging the headphones (unplug headphones and touch bias pin)? That seems a bit much for a modern-ish Stax headphone.
> 
> With my vintage headphones, sometimes the offset will go away if you leave the headphones on long enough (about a day).


 
 Thanks for the tip, will give it a try, over the weekend.


----------



## georgep

Just so there is no confusion Airbow is not Stax. They take Stax headphones and make a whole bunch of tweaks to them - don't know what all the changes are, but if there is an issue with them it is not a Stax issue.


----------



## milosz

analogsavior said:


> Hmmm...as much I'd like to, I might have to pass on Stax right now.  The Koss with the warranty seems to be the better option for me at the moment.
> 
> Thanks for the replys.


 
  
  
 I have Koss ESP-950 and Stax Lambda Signature and SR-007 mk I's.
  
 I like the 950's a whole lot. The Koss 950 is voiced differently than Stax, with a slightly richer midrange and a bit more bass impact. The ESP-950's highs are smooth and extended. There's lots of detail. Definitely an electrostatic level of clarity. But they do sound different from Stax.  That said, I feel that the ESP-950 sounds more like my SR-007 than my Lambda Signatures. I have recabled ESP-950's so I listen to them on all on the same amp - a Stax T-1.  However, the little Koss amp that comes with the ESP-950's doesn't sound _all_ that much different.  Maybe a little less refinement, but overall the sound does not differ much from the T-1
  
 My 2 cents worth:  Get the Koss. Get Stax, too, later on if you want.  A pair of Lambda's makes a nice contrast to the ESP-950's, you can get them used and you can make a plug adapter to drive the Stax off the Koss amp.
  
 With the money you save over spending a ton on a high-end Stax rig, buy tickets for live music events- and try some different genre's- move out of your comfort zone:  try jazz, classical, chamber, world music, folk, blues, metal, trip-hop, hip-hop and alt rock......
  
 Listening to headphones or speakers is nice, but live music is where it's at.


----------



## AnalogSavior

milosz said:


> I have Koss ESP-950 and Stax Lambda Signature and SR-007 mk I's.
> 
> I like the 950's a whole lot. The Koss 950 is voiced differently than Stax, with a slightly richer midrange and a bit more bass impact. The ESP-950's highs are smooth and extended. There's lots of detail. Definitely an electrostatic level of clarity. But they do sound different from Stax.  That said, I feel that the ESP-950 sounds more like my SR-007 than my Lambda Signatures. I have recabled ESP-950's so I listen to them on all on the same amp - a Stax T-1.  However, the little Koss amp that comes with the ESP-950's doesn't sound _all_ that much different.  Maybe a little less refinement, but overall the sound does not differ much from the T-1
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the reply.  I think that is sound advice, and makes a lot of sense in my current situation.  And I agree, at the end of the day, you can't replicate going out to a concert.  Though I do wish I could control the volume at some of them.


----------



## okw3188

okw3188 said:


> Thanks for the tip, will give it a try, over the weekend.


 
 Tried to touch the bias pin with fingers, but the imbalance is still the same.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I wonder how many SR-5 versions do exist.
 As far as I understand, there are regular SR-5 (white body, cloth cable, regular drivers), and different SR-5 gold (white body / cloth cable, black body / cloth cable, black body ribbon cable), all of them with SR-X/mk3 drivers.
 Is that correct ?

 Ali


----------



## Jodet

Two questions for general discussion, all comments welcome: 
  
  
 Is anyone using an SRM-323S with the 009's?  
  
  
 Looks like a +$1k savings on 009's when ordered from Japan.   Can anyone who has gone that route comment on how that worked out for them?


----------



## marcoarment

jodet said:


> Two questions for general discussion, all comments welcome:
> 
> 
> Is anyone using an SRM-323S with the 009's?
> ...


 
 I'd like to know this, too. That's exactly the combo I'm eyeing.
  
 I'm brand new to this world — how do people usually get these legitimately (with warranties, correct voltages, etc.) in the US? staxusa.com seems out of stock of both the 009 and the 323S. Woo Audio has the 009 for the "low" price, but no Stax amps. Elusive Disc has the 009s "in stock" but for about $750 too much, and the 323S as "special order" for about $200 too much. Sure, we're talking about investing nearly $6,000 in a single pair of headphones, but I still don't want to get ripped off.


----------



## Jodet

marcoarment said:


> I'd like to know this, too. That's exactly the combo I'm eyeing.
> 
> I'm brand new to this world — how do people usually get these legitimately (with warranties, correct voltages, etc.) in the US? staxusa.com seems out of stock of both the 009 and the 323S. Woo Audio has the 009 for the "low" price, but no Stax amps. Elusive Disc has the 009s "in stock" but for about $750 too much, and the 323S as "special order" for about $200 too much. Sure, we're talking about investing nearly $6,000 in a single pair of headphones, but I still don't want to get ripped off.


 
  
  
 Total for the amp from Staxusa and the 009's from Price Japan is $4300 and change. 
  
 I don't mind paying more for imported goods, but a thousand dollars more on headphones?  These aren't 40 pound speakers or a big power amp we're talking about here.  If it was $500 more I could see it, but a grand?   That's iffy.


----------



## mikek200

jodet said:


> Total for the amp from Staxusa and the 009's from Price Japan is $4300 and change.
> 
> I don't mind paying more for imported goods, but a thousand dollars more on headphones?  These aren't 40 pound speakers or a big power amp we're talking about here.  If it was $500 more I could see it, but a grand?   That's iffy.


 
 I ordered the 009,s on June 2..with EMS shipping & Paypal it came to $3550.00
 How they ended up for you to be $4300-,I don't know
 Unless,the yen went up a  by a huge margin..
  
 By The By--I just got delivery on the 009's,this works out to be a 5 day delivery,from Tokyo to NY.--amazing,and I tip my hat to Kaneda,,for an excellent product and immediate delivery
  
 Yes,this is a major invest ment for me as well
 I sold all of my other Stax gear,to do this,but,man,am I in audio Heaven right now
 Its end game for me,unless Kaneda comes out with the 0010's...then I'm screwed,and its divorce land for me.
  
 Mike


----------



## Crashem

mikek200 said:


> I ordered the 009,s on June 2..with EMS shipping & Paypal it came to $3550.00
> How they ended up for you to be $4300-,I don't know
> Unless,the yen went up a  by a huge margin..
> 
> ...




That 4300 included the amp too.


----------



## Jodet

As I said in the post - $4300 total for the 009's from Japan AND the 323S from Staxusa.  
  
 So you get a warranty from Price Japan, you should have to ship it back to them?   
  
 What is the warranty on Stax, anyway?


----------



## martyn73

Hi,
  
 I have a SR-404 and a SRM-006T and wonder if there is any improvement in sound quality to be gained by changing the 006T to a solid state 323S. Occasionally I notice some distortion in MP3 files with the 006T but this may be an imperfection in the recording. I like listening to female vocalists, acid jazz and mixed popular music.
  
 My intention in getting an older 006T was to try and control the harsh mid range of an SR-407 (recently returned). Incidentally, I have tinnitus so this may affect my hearing and I have needed to adjust the balance on the 006T to make sure the sound from the 404s is central in my head.
  
 Various posts refer to solid state amps having greater 'speed' but I'm not sure what this means in a hi-fi context. Would a 323 produce a more detailed sound than the older 006T?
  
 Has anyone changed from a 006T to a 323S / 323 II, and if so, any regrets?
  
 Thanks,
  
  
 Martyn


----------



## mikek200

jodet said:


> As I said in the post - $4300 total for the 009's from Japan AND the 323S from Staxusa.
> 
> So you get a warranty from Price Japan, you should have to ship it back to them?
> 
> What is the warranty on Stax, anyway?


 
 I believe it is 1 year,and,
 Yes,you have to ship it back to Japan
  
 Mike


----------



## mangler

marcoarment said:


> I'd like to know this, too. That's exactly the combo I'm eyeing.
> 
> I'm brand new to this world — how do people usually get these legitimately (with warranties, correct voltages, etc.) in the US? staxusa.com seems out of stock of both the 009 and the 323S. Woo Audio has the 009 for the "low" price, but no Stax amps. Elusive Disc has the 009s "in stock" but for about $750 too much, and the 323S as "special order" for about $200 too much. Sure, we're talking about investing nearly $6,000 in a single pair of headphones, but I still don't want to get ripped off.




Headamp has the 323 in stock and for the same price as Stax USA

http://www.headamp.com/order/


----------



## gilency

Headamp is your best bet.


----------



## rgs9200m

martyn73 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a SR-404 and a SRM-006T and wonder if there is any improvement in sound quality to be gained by changing the 006T to a solid state 323S. Occasionally I notice some distortion in MP3 files with the 006T but this may be an imperfection in the recording. I like listening to female vocalists, acid jazz and mixed popular music.
> 
> ...


 
 Try retubing the 006t with RCA 6fq7 cleartop tubes (if you can deal with rebiasing, which wasn't too difficult for me, and kind of fun, and I'm someone without electronics experience), It made a very big difference with my 007t/ii amp.
 Also, maybe the distortion is from tubes going bad, as you said your amp was "older"...


----------



## marcoarment

Would it be complete sacrilege to get the 009 but "only" the SRM-252S amp?
  
 I prefer solid-state to tubes, so that rules out most compatible higher-end amps. The 323S is probably what I'd otherwise get, but its depth won't physically fit well into my setup.
  
 I'm sure there are differences, but are they likely to be audible to an audiophile-voodoo skeptic? Would the difference be likely to pass a proper ABX test, regardless of what you think of the value of ABX tests?


----------



## Crashem

marcoarment said:


> Would it be complete sacrilege to get the 009 but "only" the SRM-252S amp?
> 
> I prefer solid-state to tubes, so that rules out most compatible higher-end amps. The 323S is probably what I'd otherwise get, but its depth won't physically fit well into my setup.
> 
> I'm sure there are differences, but are they likely to be audible to an audiophile-voodoo skeptic? Would the difference be likely to pass a proper ABX test, regardless of what you think of the value of ABX tests?




I have compared the 323 to kgsshv with sr009. It is definitely audible to novice. Never tried 252s but if you think 323s is probably better, then yes you would hear a difference. I used the kgsshv as example as it is solid state tube. Sr009 is arguably the best headphone out there. However it is easier to get a decent sound out of it than the sr007, IMO, but it scales as well. Personal opinion as to whether or not this means you can cheat on the amp. I would look at kgss or kgsshv if i were you. I think there is a compact build of the kgsshv someone is making.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

marcoarment said:


> Would it be complete sacrilege to get the 009 but "only" the SRM-252S amp?


 
 009 are far less amp-picky than theirs younger siblings (007, Omega 1).
 I sometimes run them through SRD-7/SBmk2 (hooked on a cheap Yamaha amp from the 90's) or through an SRM-1/mk2...though I bet the answer is "no", since you obviously won't have the SQ you would have gotten from a BHSE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## marcoarment

Thanks. Maybe I'll start with the 252S since it's small and (relatively) inexpensive, then leave a BHSE or KGSSHV as a potential future upgrade.
  
 Are there any other reasonably small solid-state electrostatic amps on the market today?


----------



## davidsh

The headroom with stat amps and stats is generally smaller than what is recommended for dynamics/orthos. The recommended 1 W through HE-500 yields 119 dB, whereas some 300-400 volts as many e-stat amps push through your typical lambda only yields some 105-7 dB give or take.


----------



## Chefguru

marcoarment said:


> Thanks. Maybe I'll start with the 252S since it's small and (relatively) inexpensive, then leave a BHSE or KGSSHV as a potential future upgrade.
> 
> Are there any other reasonably small solid-state electrostatic amps on the market today?


 
 323s minimum for the sr009


----------



## Crashem

marcoarment said:


> Thanks. Maybe I'll start with the 252S since it's small and (relatively) inexpensive, then leave a BHSE or KGSSHV as a potential future upgrade.
> 
> Are there any other reasonably small solid-state electrostatic amps on the market today?




There was that kgsshv in small box. Can't link to that other website but search for small kgsshv and look for what spritzer built.

Also, headinclouds built one too. Go to post #400 on link below. I think it was 10.3 inches by 9.5 inches by 7inches or so.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/582131/is-anyone-building-the-kgsshv/390

(Edited to include forgotten link)


----------



## marcoarment

chefguru said:


> 323s minimum for the sr009


 
  
 Is this a fact — the 009 will not work properly or will not receive enough power from the 232S — or an opinion that the 323S is the minimum to drive it to proper quality? (If the latter, why?)
  


crashem said:


> There was that kgsshv in small box. Can't link to that other website but search for small kgsshv and look for what spritzer built.
> 
> Also, headinclouds built one too. Go to post #400 on link below. I think it was 10.3 inches by 9.5 inches by 7inches or so.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not interested in DIY — I don't really have the time, and I definitely don't have the skill. Do I understand correctly that it's pretty rare to find people building KGSSHVs for others and selling them? (That compact-silver-cube one does look awesome, but there's probably no way for me to just buy one like that, is there?)


----------



## rgs9200m

As I said earlier, I have an SR009 with a stock 007t/ii with NOS RCA cleartop 6fq7 tubes that I installed myself and it is very good, so good that I don't have the upgrade bug for a new amp.
 It's cheap, available, has a small profile, and if you don't like it, pretty easy to sell and move on with limited dollar loss.
 I've got a Pinnacle amp with flagship phones, and the Stax setup is sort of top of the heap, with amazing insight, tonalilty, and most important, non-fatiguing upper mids and highs.
 The bass is rock solid and beautifully transparent, if not as deep as Audezes, say, but it's so high quality I don't miss it.
 I'm sure a BHSE is better, but the sound I'm getting is so right I'm leaving well enough alone.
 Those RCA tubes make a big difference. 
 I had a long talk with Stax USA and they recommended this approach.


----------



## marcoarment

My hesitation with tubes:
  
 - I prefer precision and crispness over warmth. (One of the big reasons I'm interested in the 009.)
 - I hate noise.
 - From what I understand, the 009 is significantly more sensitive than most other Stax models, so I assume I'm more likely to hear the tubes' baseline noise.
 - The tubes' baseline noise may be higher than you expect because the amp will be near a computer and monitor.
 - I don't enjoy tube-rolling to find the best combo, and I don't want the hassle of replacements over time.
  
 Seems like I'm the textbook case for solid-state amplification, right?


----------



## mangler

marcoarment said:


> Is this a fact — the 009 will not work properly or will not receive enough power from the 232S — or an opinion that the 323S is the minimum to drive it to proper quality? (If the latter, why?)
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in DIY — I don't really have the time, and I definitely don't have the skill. Do I understand correctly that it's pretty rare to find people building KGSSHVs for others and selling them? (That compact-silver-cube one does look awesome, but there's probably no way for me to just buy one like that, is there?)




I believe headintheclouds is indeed building those small cube KGSSHV with the intent to sell. I don't remember the exact price, but I know it wasn't cheap.

You might also want to check the FS forums here and on the other site. If you can find an amp by spritzer you should seriously consider it, even if it's not a KGSSHV. I have one of his "experimental" amps, and I absolutely love it.


----------



## paradoxper

Soup has a KGSSHV For Sale and a pair of 009's as well.


----------



## kothganesh

paradoxper said:


> Soup has a KGSSHV For Sale and a pair of 009's as well.


 
 Dude,
 you finally got the 009? I AM ENVIOUS


----------



## Crashem

marcoarment said:


> Is this a fact — the 009 will not work properly or will not receive enough power from the 232S — or an opinion that the 323S is the minimum to drive it to proper quality? (If the latter, why?)
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in DIY — I don't really have the time, and I definitely don't have the skill. Do I understand correctly that it's pretty rare to find people building KGSSHVs for others and selling them? (That compact-silver-cube one does look awesome, but there's probably no way for me to just buy one like that, is there?)




He builds them for others not to make money per say but to pay his expenses and find his hobbies. So you don't need to build it yourself. For example, spritzer built my kgsshv. Mao reach out to headinclouds and see what the cost looks like.


----------



## complin

Why?
 It works just fine with the 009?
 You should also consider a previous generation energiser like 212, SRM-1/Mk-2 or SRM-313 if is solid state. The SRM-T1 is also a good bet if you prefer a tube amp.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stax_products
 The differences aren't night and day, so bang for the buck is pretty good. Will also give you time to decide if and what you want to upgrade to.
  
 Most important thing is a good source with the 009 (or any Stax) so this is where you should be focussing any spare funds you have, this will make by far the biggest difference to the overall result. 
  
 Quote:


chefguru said:


> 323s minimum for the sr009


----------



## paradoxper

paradoxper said:


> Dude,
> you finally got the 009? I AM ENVIOUS


 
 Yea dude! I think I'm done. Well, er, that is, after the KGST. Haha.
  
 But I am excited about the 009, they really left an impression on me when Daly sent them down.


----------



## kothganesh

paradoxper said:


> Yea dude! I think I'm done. Well, er, that is, after the KGST. Haha.
> 
> But I am excited about the 009, they really left an impression on me when Daly sent them down.



Alright, two more things to do: get the 009 and Geoff's KGST!


----------



## paradoxper

kothganesh said:


> Alright, two more things to do: get the 009 and Geoff's KGST!


 
 We'll see how good the KGST turns out to be. Still waiting on more of Birgir and Kerry's impressions on it.


----------



## marcoarment

Thanks, everyone. I think I'll start with the 232S so I can start using the 009s immediately, then investigate getting a KGSSHV over the next few months (since I imagine it takes a while).


----------



## Hun7er

Where the KGST can be buy ?


----------



## gepardcv

marcoarment said:


> Would it be complete sacrilege to get the 009 but "only" the SRM-252S amp?


 
  
 I wish I had an answer to that, as I never had a chance to try the 009s with one of the less-expensive Stax amps. However, I did have the opportunity to listen to an original SR-Omega driven by the 323, and it was excellent. I don't know how the Omega sounds out of a BHSE or Liquid Lightning or KGSS, but there was nothing wrong with the sound of the 323.


----------



## paradoxper

hun7er said:


> Where the KGST can be buy ?


 
 It's another DIY build.


----------



## Hun7er

rgs9200m said:


> As I said earlier, I have an SR009 with a stock 007t/ii with NOS RCA cleartop 6fq7 tubes that I installed myself and it is very good, so good that I don't have the upgrade bug for a new amp.
> It's cheap, available, has a small profile, and if you don't like it, pretty easy to sell and move on with limited dollar loss.
> I've got a Pinnacle amp with flagship phones, and the Stax setup is sort of top of the heap, with amazing insight, tonalilty, and most important, non-fatiguing upper mids and highs.
> The bass is rock solid and beautifully transparent, if not as deep as Audezes, say, but it's so high quality I don't miss it.
> ...


 
  
 I completely agree as I had the opportunity to hear a 007tII retubed, though don't know which tubes but it was very good. A little less dynamic than the 727 but more meatier and less harsh on high volume


----------



## Hun7er

paradoxper said:


> It's another DIY build.


 
  
 Seems very interesting. Which diyer already did this ?


----------



## paradoxper

hun7er said:


> Seems very interesting. Which diyer already did this ?


 
 Of course, Birgir -- and Kerry has one up running. Geoff is also making boards for a group buy. You can better familiarize yourself with the KGST over at the other place -- not the one with the dumb pirates.


----------



## Hun7er

Okay I understand as I'm member of the forum. 
 For me this amp seems very interesting as I live very much the SR007TII retubed. But if it can provides more dynamic and openness it will be awesome !


----------



## headinclouds

crashem said:


> Also, headinclouds built one too. Go to post #400 on link below. I think it was 10.3 inches by 9.5 inches by 7inches or so.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/582131/is-anyone-building-the-kgsshv/390
> 
> (Edited to include forgotten link)


 
 Thanks Crashem for remembering that.  I did set out to make the smallest KGSShv I could. We nicknamed it the Cube. I am building one for me and one slightly different for anyone who would like it.
  
 This will have a silver anodised FP and a black case.  It will be the only one.


----------



## oogabooga

marcoarment said:


> Thanks, everyone. I think I'll start with the 232S so I can start using the 009s immediately, then investigate getting a KGSSHV over the next few months (since I imagine it takes a while).


 
 Do you mean 323S? Or 252? If the latter I would add my voice to those suggesting AGAINST it. The 252 tiny amp capable of powering the more easily driven Lambda headphones.
  
 The SRM-323S is the minimum I use to drive my 007s. I have also tried the SRM-727 amp, and I find it to be a bit better in the bass, and capable of handling XLR if you have a balanced DAC. I have not tried any of the more expensive amps so I cannot comment directly.


----------



## Crashem

headinclouds said:


> Thanks Crashem for remembering that.  I did set out to make the smallest KGSShv I could. We nicknamed it the Cube. I am building one for me and one slightly different for anyone who would like it.
> 
> This will have a silver anodised FP and a black case.  It will be the only one.




That amp is sexy and almost small enough to run portable . Throw a few car batteries on it and we have a transportable electrostat option circa first compaq portable. I actually did close up on that picture for first time. Is the writing on that amp recessed with the white lettering or raised white lettering. Either way I like the white with the silver.


----------



## headinclouds

crashem said:


> That amp is sexy and almost small enough to run portable
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 At the request of the buyer the original was anodised gold and engraved so silver shows through.  For the final one I was planning on silver FP and engraved so silver shows.  Subtle.


----------



## astrostar59

> At the request of the buyer the original was anodised gold and engraved so silver shows through. For the final one I was planning on silver FP and engraved so silver shows. Subtle.




Hi Geoff
I reckon (if you wanted to keep going on KGSSHV builds) you could sell more of those cubes. There is nothing like it out there.
A very original idea and it looks great.


----------



## complin

The 007 is a totally different animal from the 009.
 The 009's work just fine with the 252 
  
 Quote:


oogabooga said:


> Do you mean 323S? Or 252? If the latter I would add my voice to those suggesting AGAINST it. The 252 tiny amp capable of powering the more easily driven Lambda headphones.
> 
> The SRM-323S is the minimum I use to drive my 007s. I have also tried the SRM-727 amp, and I find it to be a bit better in the bass, and capable of handling XLR if you have a balanced DAC. I have not tried any of the more expensive amps so I cannot comment directly.


----------



## complin

Maybe you want the SRDX-Pro runs off rechargeable batteries and mains too!
  
 Quote:


crashem said:


> That amp is sexy and almost small enough to run portable
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## astrostar59

> Do you mean 323S? Or 252? If the latter I would add my voice to those suggesting AGAINST it. The 252 tiny amp capable of powering the more easily driven Lambda headphones.
> 
> The SRM-323S is the minimum I use to drive my 007s. I have also tried the SRM-727 amp, and I find it to be a bit better in the bass, and capable of handling XLR if you have a balanced DAC. I have not tried any of the more expensive amps so I cannot comment directly.




I agree, the 252 'may' drive the 009s, but what SQ would you get. It is slightly bonkers using 5K phones with a budget amp (bottom of the range). It will open all the flaws and may have a fatiguing sound due to revealing all the issues upstream. A better amp with the 507s may make more sense? It depends if the system is going to get an upgrade or that is it. If upgrade is planned, then yes, get the 009s and run with a 323S for now.

I have the 009s, and bought a second hand 717 that DOES sound good with the 009s. And a 727 modded would be the same. Then sell the 717 or 727 later for minimal loss and if money goes far enough, go for a KGSSHV or BHSE.

On the balanced with Stax amps, I am not convinced XLR does sound better. It tried XLR v RCA into my 717 and RCA sounded a lot better. Balanced can (should) sound better, but unless the manufacturer has gone to the (big) expense of doubled up transformers (Stax amps haven't) , a good quality single ended nearly always works better IMO. It does with my SET amps as well.

Keep the cable runs short, and get a decent RCA interconnect, and you will be fine.


----------



## marcoarment

oogabooga said:


> Do you mean 323S? Or 252? If the latter I would add my voice to those suggesting AGAINST it. The 252 tiny amp capable of powering the more easily driven Lambda headphones.
> 
> The SRM-323S is the minimum I use to drive my 007s. I have also tried the SRM-727 amp, and I find it to be a bit better in the bass, and capable of handling XLR if you have a balanced DAC. I have not tried any of the more expensive amps so I cannot comment directly.


 
  
 Sorry, I did mean the 252S. As others have said, my main reasoning (besides wanting something small enough to fit on my desk) was that the 009 is significantly easier to drive than the 007, and by most accounts I could find, the 252S and 323S sound similar.
  
 If I'm going to upgrade to something higher-end like a KGSSHV or BHSE in the future, I'd rather have not spent a ton of money on a midrange option. And if I end up not thinking an upgrade is necessary, I've saved myself thousands of dollars and a ton of desk space.


----------



## marcoarment

astrostar59 said:


> I agree, the 252 'may' drive the 009s, but what SQ would you get. It is slightly bonkers using 5K phones with a budget amp (bottom of the range).


 
  
 I think this is an assumption worth challenging. My Asgard 2 kicks ass with my HD 800 and TH900, and it only cost $250. I've heard higher-priced amps, and I've never noticed a difference. I know electrostatics have different requirements, but the 252S is still a $450 amp from a very well-regarded manufacturer. It's probably no slouch in the grand scheme of things.
  
 My priorities are different than most audiophiles, and I'm skeptical whether differences between amps, DACs, cables, etc. are noticeable once you get beyond the absolute-garbage component-quality level. Rather than spending nearly equal amounts on headphones and amps like the common wisdom around here, I'd rather allocate funds differently so I can get the best headphones in the world and then whatever amp/DAC is good enough so I won't notice flaws.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

marcoarment said:


> I think this is an assumption worth challenging. My Asgard 2 kicks ass with my HD 800 and TH900, and it only cost $250. I've heard higher-priced amps, and I've never noticed a difference. I know electrostatics have different requirements, but the 252S is still a $450 amp from a very well-regarded manufacturer. It's probably no slouch in the grand scheme of things.
> 
> My priorities are different than most audiophiles, *and I'm skeptical whether differences between amps, DACs, cables, etc. are noticeable once you get beyond the absolute-garbage component-quality level.* Rather than spending nearly equal amounts on headphones and amps like the common wisdom around here, I'd rather allocate funds differently so I can get the best headphones in the world and then whatever amp/DAC is good enough so I won't notice flaws.


 
 Make more (extensive) comparisons between similarly priced components. As far as I can tell, even expensive DACs or amps don't sound the same. The more revealing your phones/speakers, the easier you'll notice the difference.


----------



## georgep

marcoarment said:


> ... and by most accounts I could find, the 252S and 323S sound similar....



 


For whatever it is worth, I have only ever heard heard the opposite. The 323s on the other hand is on par with Stax's current top-of-the-line offerings.


----------



## astrostar59

> I'd rather allocate funds differently so I can get the best headphones in the world and then whatever amp/DAC is good enough so I won't notice flaws




What fool talk is this? Honestly, you think a budget DAC or transport and amp will sound good on a top (revealing) headphone?

Spend more time with better quality components and you will understand. 

I am not at my normal home at the moment, thus have my 009s and Stax 717 driven by a budget Denon CD player (400US) and it sound simply awefull.
Yes, better than walkman headphones out of a portable, but really, it is MILES off what they sound like fed by a good source.

Like I said in my earlier post, if you are going to upgrade for certain later, then get the 009s. If not, a 507 and a better front end would be money
wisely spent. A microscope on a poor source will sound like, eer a poor sound....


----------



## marcoarment

georgep said:


> For whatever it is worth, I have only ever heard heard the opposite. The 323s on the other hand is on par with Stax's current top-of-the-line offerings.


 
  
 Thanks. The 323S is probably where I'll go next if necessary, since I really want solid-state.
  


astrostar59 said:


> What fool talk is this? Honestly, you think a budget DAC or transport and amp will sound good on a top (revealing) headphone?


 
  
 This is the kind of thinking that gets people to perceive differences that aren't there and spend too much money (and advise others to do the same).
  
 Your correlation between price and quality is a fallacy. Some great stuff is expensive, but some isn't — and not all expensive stuff is great. Not every "upgrade" is really an upgrade in anything but price, and not every "requirement" is really a requirement.
  
 To quote the wise Louis C.K. when his agent told him he "had to" promote local radio DJs on his tour:
  


> I said to him, “Let’s do none of it.” … “Let’s find out if this is a huge mistake. Let’s find out. I’m willing to sacrifice my first theater tour and have the places empty and identify that it’s because I wouldn’t let the radio people participate. But we also might find out that it didn’t make a difference and that I never have to do it.” [Laughs.] Because you can’t roll that s*** back once you’ve started.
> 
> Anyway, the obvious story is that it didn’t make a screwing difference. It didn’t matter. It’s like, there’s some joke about a guy with a banana in his ear to keep the crocodiles away and he says, “It’s working.”


 
  
 That's how I like to approach the common wisdom about some of this stuff, especially as so much of it fails ABX testing. Do I really need a $5,000 boutique amp for these $3,500 headphones? Well, I'm willing to find out.
  
 And I'd absolutely call into question your recommendation that I buy inferior headphones if I'm not willing to spend a ton on an amp. As I've said before, my HD 800 with my $250 Schiit amp sounds much better than or indistinguishable from anything else I've ever heard, including the same headphones on $5,000+ boutique tube setups. I say get the headphones right from the start, and worry about the rest of the stack if you actually hear problems that an amp/DAC/source/cable/magic power brick are actually capable of and likely to fix.


----------



## Michgelsen

marcoarment said:


> Rather than spending nearly equal amounts on headphones and amps like the common wisdom around here, I'd rather allocate funds differently so I can get the best headphones in the world and then whatever amp/DAC is good enough so I won't notice flaws.


 

 A wise choice, I think. By far the most decisive part of your (headphone) system are your headphones.


----------



## rawrster

The 323S amp is actually pretty good considering the price. I was surprised when I had them with the 007 when I first ventured into Stax. The 717 amp I have is better and so are the KGSSHV and BHSE but of course those are much more expensive and one is DIY. I do find that there are improvements however it really depends on budget as well as if one thinks it is worth it or not.


----------



## 3X0

marcoarment said:


> This is the kind of thinking that gets people to perceive differences that aren't there and spend too much money (and advise others to do the same).
> Your correlation between price and quality is a fallacy. Some great stuff is expensive, but some isn't — and not all expensive stuff is great. Not every "upgrade" is really an upgrade in anything but price, and not every "requirement" is really a requirement.
> 
> That's how I like to approach the common wisdom about some of this stuff, especially as so much of it fails ABX testing. Do I really need a $5,000 boutique amp for these $3,500 headphones? Well, I'm willing to find out.
> ...


 
 I'm using the 323S with the SR-Omega and it's good. The Omega is said to be "harder to drive" than the SR-009 (whatever that means). I've been told by at least a few educated ears that the setup does not have audible flaws.
  
 My thinking is consistent with yours but we're in the minority. Many perceived differences can be based on quantifiable error as a result of insufficient level matching (at or greater than 2dB). If you level-match by ear, the resulting error will be apparent by ear. This (along with a few other fallacies in comparison) is why I don't trust comparisons unless they are framed in the appropriate context.


----------



## complin

So are you talking from personal experience of the 252 with the 009?
 Please don't underestimate it just because its the entry level amplifier or its predecessors like 212 or XRM for that matter. For the money its a very capable amp and yes the 007 will be better in some areas for five times the cost but it's not 5 times better.
 I often use my 009 with a 252 when travelling or when I can't be bothered stokeing up my main outfit, Given the choice of buying a more expensive amp or a much better source, the money spent on the source will be much better spent.
  



astrostar59 said:


> I agree, the 252 'may' drive the 009s, but what SQ would you get. It is slightly bonkers using 5K phones with a budget amp (bottom of the range). It will open all the flaws and may have a fatiguing sound due to revealing all the issues upstream. A better amp with the 507s may make more sense? It depends if the system is going to get an upgrade or that is it. If upgrade is planned, then yes, get the 009s and run with a 323S for now.
> 
> I have the 009s, and bought a second hand 717 that DOES sound good with the 009s. And a 727 modded would be the same. Then sell the 717 or 727 later for minimal loss and if money goes far enough, go for a KGSSHV or BHSE.
> 
> ...


----------



## complin

It means that you need an amplifier that puts out lots of current especially with the original omega. Stax designed the T2 which output almost 700 volts, about twice that of the average Stax amp at that time.
 I'm certain if you heard your Omega on something like the BHSE you would immediately hear the difference. 
  
 Quote:


3x0 said:


> I'm using the 323S with the SR-Omega and it's good. *The Omega is said to be "harder to drive" than the SR-009 (whatever that means)*. I've been told by at least a few educated ears that the setup does not have audible flaws.
> 
> My thinking is consistent with yours but we're in the minority. Many perceived differences can be based on quantifiable error as a result of insufficient level matching (at or greater than 2dB). If you level-match by ear, the resulting error will be apparent by ear. This (along with a few other fallacies in comparison) is why I don't trust comparisons unless they are framed in the appropriate context.


----------



## 3X0

complin said:


>


 
 Oh, I know. I meant that I was unsure why the Omega would be particularly difficult to drive, though I suppose it has a larger transducer.
  
 I wasn't able to distinguish an audible improvement with a KGSSHV but this was not in my own home. Whereas other individuals are vulnerable to confirmation bias in subpar listening conditions (i.e. meets), I tend to behave contrariwise.


----------



## marcoarment

complin said:


> Please don't underestimate it just because its the entry level amplifier or its predecessors like 212 or XRM for that matter. For the money its a very capable amp and yes the 007 will be better in some areas for five times the cost but it's not 5 times better.
> 
> I often use my 009 with a 252 when travelling or when I can't be bothered stokeing up my main outfit, Given the choice of buying a more expensive amp or a much better source, the money spent on the source will be much better spent.


  

 As one of the (apparently) few people who use a SR-009 with a 252 sometimes and a bigger amp some other times, I'd love to know if you can elaborate on what some of the differences are, or what some of the 252's flaws might be so I can listen for them and know what I'd be getting into if I chose to do a future upgrade.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

This is some good reading.
  
 -FWIW I would not pair the 323s with the o2mk1.  I don't like the combo very much and the 717 is absolutely a better call.  With Lambdas that I've heard the 323s and 252s is actually a great combo.  I have recently heard from a user or two in recent memory the 323s is an amp they cannot stand to listen to so not everyone universally likes the sound.
  
 -Going with a 009 on a 252s and whatever source is good enough?  Sounds like a plan!  We all learn on our own dime


----------



## complin

Personally I think the more expensive amps are a little more refined so the 727 is more refined than the 323/252 for example
 The power supply on the 252 is more limited than its bigger brothers so the bass is not quite so sustained and powerful. You can improve this by using a better supply than the wall-wart supply it comes with. Arbow rebadge the 252 with a better power supply 
http://ippinkan.jp/18360608196615#global_navi
http://www.ippinkan.co.jp/airbow/product/headphone/srsc21_11.html
 It only puts out 280v compared to 350/400v on the more expensive amps so it won't have as much headroom and will be a little less dynamic
 All these things are relative so unless you do a lot of side by side comparisons you are not likely to notice huge differences unless you listen mostly to highly dynamic and complex music.
  
 Inputs and outputs are limited to one or two pairs of RCA's but if you don't use a lot of sources or balanced out then a non issue
 On the more expensive amps the volume control is ergonomically nicer and smoother, and the ability to adjust the volume on each channel. The 252 volume works fine but its look and feel is just a more basic single control
 .
 The one thing you shouldn't skimp on with the 009 is the source, as with all stats it will expose any shortcomings. If you put garbage in thats what you will get out. A cheap bright sounding DAC with a poor output stage will sound awful, so choose carefully.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

I think his point is that he's going to try his plan for the hell of it and if it sucks then it sucks and he's going to learn on it and go from there.  Nothing wrong with that!  Good luck convincing him otherwise.  Personally I see nothing wrong with the approach if it works for him, no skin off my back!


----------



## SoupRKnowva

I will wholeheartedly agree with Marco that the 009s running off a cheaper amp/dac is going to sound better than the same amount spent on a cheaper headphone but nicer dac/amp. The headphones make the single largest difference in the sound of the rig.


----------



## complin

Be careful what you wish for!
 Headphones like Stax 009 and Senn HD800 are very sensitive to the source, both the recording and the DAC, so if you skimp on this it will undermine the overall quality and enjoyment of the headphone. This is often why these headphones are can be accused of being very bright, fatiguing, poor bass etc etc.. Poor recordings will be exposed for what they are compressed, volume equalised and not very pleasant to listen too.  
  
 Quote:


souprknowva said:


> I will wholeheartedly agree with Marco that the 009s running off a cheaper amp/dac is going to sound better than the same amount spent on a cheaper headphone but nicer dac/amp. The headphones make the single largest difference in the sound of the rig.


----------



## marcoarment

complin said:


> Headphones like Stax 009 and Senn HD800 are very sensitive to the source, both the recording and the DAC, so if you skimp on this it will undermine the overall quality and enjoyment of the headphone. This is often why these headphones are can be accused of being very bright, fatiguing, poor bass etc etc..


 
  
 This is why it's important to know what you like, even if it's not what everyone else considers "best".
  
 I actually like brightness in a headphone. I really enjoyed the bright Beyer T90 for months and thought the HD 650 sounded muffled. People say the HD 800 is too bright, but I think it's just right and might even be better with a bit _more_ brightness. I love sound that many describe as "analytical", and I believe brightness and detail are good things — they don't need to equal harshness. Based on these preferences, in David Mahler's epic review, I was convinced that the SR-009 is likely to be the better choice for me than the more laid-back, less-bright 007s, despite many people preferring the 007s.
  
 Many regard the high-end all-tube amps as the best because they roll off the high end, and that's pleasing to many, but I learned that I actually don't want that — to me, a rolled-off high end is a flaw to be avoided. I see "warmth" as reducing detail, and that seems like a waste of an electrostatic. That's one reason why I'm only considering solid-state amps.
  
 Anyway, my 252S is here and my 009 arrives on Monday, so I'll let you know how it goes. But if the 252S ends up not being sufficient for me, I'm only really looking at a 323S, 727II, or KGSSHV, not an all-out tube bonanza like the BHSE or WES.
  
 Or maybe it'll get here, my ears will be overwhelmed with levels of detail that I never thought possible, all of my lossy recordings will sound awful, my cheap cables will corrode to dust, you'll be proven right, and I'll immediately order a $5,000 tube amp. I suppose we'll see.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

marcoarment said:


> (...)
> 
> Or maybe it'll get here, my ears will be overwhelmed with levels of detail that I never thought possible, all of my lossy recordings will sound awful, my cheap cables will corrode to dust, you'll be proven right, and I'll immediately order a $5,000 tube amp. I suppose we'll see.


 
 We won't, you will. Since reviews of things you have never heard are enough to convince you, there's not much I can contribute here...


----------



## astrostar59

Ooh dear, more ridiculous claims.



> Many regard the high-end all-tube amps as the best because they roll off the high end, and that's pleasing to many, but I learned that I actually don't want that — to me, a rolled-off high end is a flaw to be avoided. I see "warmth" as reducing detail, and that seems like a waste of an electrostatic. That's one reason why I'm only considering solid-state amps.




Honestly, why do we have people saying such unfounded rubbish? Yes 1950's radiogram bought by Dad, but seriously, modern well designed tube amps can and do have full frequency responses.
Listen to a BHSE my friend, then learn for yourself!

Many of the best high end amplifiers have tubed output, many tubed regulated power supplies as well. Solid state can also achieve. But please stop this 'all tube based designs are rolled off'

Go to some meets, go to some demo's at a decent high end hifi dealers, go listen and learn, stop standing at the bottom of the hill and saying you know....


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

As astrostar59 said, modern tube designs can measure very well. People like high-end tube amps not "because they roll of the high-end" (many of them don't, btw), but rather because they have a sort of unique character. The tone, soundstage, holographic sq..... of a really good tube amp is quite stunning, at least to my ears.


----------



## fzman

marcoarment said:


> This is the kind of thinking that gets people to perceive differences that aren't there and spend too much money (and advise others to do the same).
> 
> Your correlation between price and quality is a fallacy. Some great stuff is expensive, but some isn't — and not all expensive stuff is great. Not every "upgrade" is really an upgrade in anything but price, and not every "requirement" is really a requirement.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I find it interesting how people slide back and forth between adjectives relating to (sonic) quality/performance  and price as if they were interchangeable.  You are correct that not every expensive component is better than every less expensive component.  It does not follow from that, that no expensive component is better than any less expensive component.  
  
 As for your last comment -- 'need' is not the correct term here, and skews the argument.  Clearly nobody needs this stuff the same way that they need air and nutrition, e.g..  I for one, am curious what you might end up deciding, once you've had a chance to hear a true reference-level system, which also complies with your sonic taste......
  
  
 We can have Scully and Mulder hint one down for you....


----------



## fzman

3x0 said:


> Oh, I know. I meant that I was unsure why the Omega would be particularly difficult to drive, though I suppose it has a larger transducer.
> 
> I wasn't able to distinguish an audible improvement with a KGSSHV but this was not in my own home. Whereas other individuals are vulnerable to confirmation bias in subpar listening conditions (i.e. meets), I tend to behave contrariwise.


 
 do you mean you exhibit a discomfirmation bias?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  isn't that just as bad?   Karl Popper must be spinning in his grave.  (I suppose I should Google to find out if he's even dead yet).


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

fzman said:


> do you mean you exhibit a discomfirmation bias?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Died in 1994 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And yes, any bias is a problem if you are looking for objectivity.


----------



## James-uk

Tube amps are flawed based on limits in technology just like analogue recording and storage were. Digital and solid state are in another league . It's a fact. That's not up for discussion. What is and needs to be considered is personal preference. That can't be accounted for so there is no point in arguing about it.


----------



## fzman

souprknowva said:


> I will wholeheartedly agree with Marco that the 009s running off a cheaper amp/dac is going to sound better than the same amount spent on a cheaper headphone but nicer dac/amp. The headphones make the single largest difference in the sound of the rig.


 
 I get your point, but I also think this is one of those dangerous generalizations.  I think this needs to be argued at the level of specific pairings, one vs. the other.  It is tru that transducers are more colored and less 'perfect' than electronics, but there are limits on how far that can be factored into these kinds of comparisons.  What I think is closest to the truth is that you have to weigh the pros and cons of various pairings each of which adds up to a similar dollar total.  Veer to far in one direction with either the electronics or the headphones and you will end up with a poor sounding combo.  
  
  
 sorry for 3 disputatious posts in rapid succession - .  I had the day off today, and should be less cranky (of course the 12 hour fast and then 5 plus hours at the hospital for testing may have something to do with it.


----------



## complin

Technically this is true in some respects (objective measurements) but it's not borne out by subjective listening IMO, particularly in audio amplification and in driving electrostatic headphones specifically.
 In fact scientists have now realised that the vacuum tube has much to offer and are actively developing combined solid state and vacuum tube devices.  http://www.gizmag.com/nasa-vacuum-channel-transistor/22626/
  
*"NASA and the National Nanofab Center in South Korea are working on a miniaturized "vacuum channel transistor" - a best-of-both-worlds device that could find application in space and high-radiation environments.*
*Vacuum tubes, or thermionic valves, have almost disappeared from our day-to-day life, save for some purist sound rigs and high-power radio base stations. Their replacement - solid-state transistors - are easier to manufacture, cheaper, lighter, last longer, and consume much less power. Valves, on the other hand, are more robust in high-temperature and high-radiation environments and yield a higher frequency/power output than standard transistors.*
*NASA/Nanofab researchers are developing a device the combines the best aspects from both vacuum tubes and solid-state transistors. Their prototype "vacuum channel transistor" is only 150 nanometers in size, can be manufactured cheaply using standard silicon semiconductor processing, can operate at high speeds even in hostile environments, and could consume just as much power as a standard transistor."*
  
 Quote:


james-uk said:


> Tube amps are flawed based on limits in technology just like analogue recording and storage were. Digital and solid state are in another league . It's a fact. That's not up for discussion. What is and needs to be considered is personal preference. That can't be accounted for so there is no point in arguing about it.


----------



## n3rdling

Just because an amp has a tube in it doesn't make it a _tube amp_.  I know that sounds weird, but a lot of amps are hybrid amps, meaning they use both transistors and tubes.  In fact, most "tube amps" for electrostats are hybrid amps.  The BHSE is closer to being a solid state amp than a tube amp.  In fact, one could make the argument that tubes are ideal for driving electrostats.
  
 Also, amp "roll off" is a grossly exaggerated and misguided phrase.  Most of the time you're looking at a max of something like -1.5 dB @ 20 kHz.  Likely not even audible, and certainly not important.  "Roll off" is really only meaningful for the actual transducers, unless you're using something especially terrible like the Zanden DAC.


----------



## marcoarment

Forgive me for assuming all tube amps have rolled-off highs — that's the most frequent characteristic that I see other people (and reviews) citing about the difference. When I've tried tube amps before, I've either detected no difference at all from (good) solid-state, or that rolloff. Usually no difference at all.
  
 But, as I said, that was just one reason I wasn't considering tubes. The two others:
  
 - Tubes can be finicky, and eventually burn out. I don't want to tube-roll. I don't want to buy NOS tubes from Russian missiles on eBay (again). I don't want to have to figure out what to replace them with, and where to get more, when they die. I don't want to diagnose a weird imbalance or noise in one ear when a tube gets flaky. I want an amp that works the same way every time.
  
 - Tubes seem to pick up noise more easily, and I'm surrounded by computers and phones and tablets with cellular radios all the time. When I spent some time with a couple of tube amps at home, I had problems with my most sensitive and detailed headphones — the Beyer T90 — having audible noise from both tube amps that they didn't get with two solid-state amps in the exact same setup. And from what everyone says, the SR-009 are particularly sensitive and detailed.
  
 Are these concerns unfounded?


----------



## n3rdling

I wasn't aiming my post at anyone in particular, there just seemed to be some misconceptions being posted.  I agree that the differences between sources and amps are blown pretty out of proportion, and think the headphone is by FAR the most important part of the chain.  If I were in your situation I'd look at one of the current production SS Stax amps or a vintage SRM-1 or SRM-T1.  Note the latter uses tubes and does indeed have a 'tubey' sound, so I'm not sure you'd prefer it.
  
 Tubes are more finicky/less set and forget than transistors.  As for the noise problem, it could be a number of things and really depends on what kind of noise you're talking about.  It could be bad power/regulation, sensitivity/impedance of the headphones, chassis shielding design, etc.


----------



## DutchGFX

I thought people jumped on STAX gear, but I've been trying to sell my 006T for months. I really enjoy it but its too nice haha I don't deserve an amp of that caliber on my desk.


----------



## zachchen1996

Anyone here use (or have heard) a Schiit DAC with the KGSSHV / 009?


----------



## complin

I dont think its anything to with it being a Stax amp but just that people are short of money at the moment. Just the cost of living, food rent, energy etc. On UK forums there is lots of great equipment, some at bargain prices but its just not selling. I think you will find DIY amps can be even harder to sell and get back anywhere near the investment back you put into them.
 I also think Stax amps are dissed here far too much, there is always something better at a price, but how many other commercial headphone amps are still fully functional after three or four decades?
    
 Quote:


dutchgfx said:


> I thought people jumped on STAX gear, but I've been trying to sell my 006T for months. I really enjoy it but its too nice haha I don't deserve an amp of that caliber on my desk.


----------



## miceblue

This was posted in the entry STAX thread, but I thought someone here might be curious too. Since Tyll received the custom electrostatic headphone amplifier, he's offering to measure electrostatic headphones. I sent in my SR-207 purchased last year and I just received them back today with a data sheet of measurements.



They look pretty much identical, if not better than the SR-507 measurements he did previously, so I'm not sure why anyone in their right mind would purchase the SR-507 over the SR-207 when the SR-207 is $535 USD less from STAX USA's pricing. Actually, looking at the SR-009 measurements, the SR-207 measures pretty close to that too. Not too bad for a $390 (that's 1/11 the price of the SR-009) headphone! Not bad at all. : o


----------



## kothganesh

zachchen1996 said:


> Anyone here use (or have heard) a Schiit DAC with the KGSSHV / 009?


 
 I use the Schiit Gungnir with the KGSSHV and previously the Stax 717. My HP is the 007mk1.


----------



## complin

Yes the Stax entry level stuff is a real bargain IMHO


----------



## karlgerman

marcoarment said:


> - Tubes can be finicky, and eventually burn out. I don't want to tube-roll. I don't want to buy NOS tubes from Russian missiles on eBay (again). I don't want to have to figure out what to replace them with, and where to get more, when they die. I don't want to diagnose a weird imbalance or noise in one ear when a tube gets flaky. I want an amp that works the same way every time.
> 
> - Tubes seem to pick up noise more easily, and I'm surrounded by computers and phones and tablets with cellular radios all the time. When I spent some time with a couple of tube amps at home, I had problems with my most sensitive and detailed headphones — the Beyer T90 — having audible noise from both tube amps that they didn't get with two solid-state amps in the exact same setup. And from what everyone says, the SR-009 are particularly sensitive and detailed.


 
 Never had so many noise problems as with my KGSS and the 009.
 It is so sensitive that even the flickering of the MacbookPro display or a Iphone/ipad nearby can be easily heard.
 With the Stax Amps there will be no noise at all. Its going to be interesting how a BHSE will act. CANT WAIT(2 1/2 years now waiting) to find out!
  
 The DAC is a ESOTERIC D02 and cabling the good stuff from Wireworld, so that could not be the source.
  
 I have a very quiet surrounding which may a reason that i´m more sensitive in hearing than others. My Summit X Electrostatic Loudspeaker for example have a noise problem on the active sub amplification, very subtile, that most of the other Martin Logan Summit owners haven't recognized.
 ---The Martin Logan ReQuest Speaker with the same Amp, a Lyngdorf TDAI2200, did not have any noise.
  
 Karl


----------



## headinclouds

miceblue said:


> This was posted in the entry STAX thread, but I thought someone here might be curious too. Since Tyll received the custom electrostatic headphone amplifier, he's offering to measure electrostatic headphones. I sent in my SR-207 purchased last year and I just received them back today with a data sheet of measurements.
> 
> 
> 
> They look pretty much identical, if not better than the SR-507 measurements he did previously, so I'm not sure why anyone in their right mind would purchase the SR-507 over the SR-207 when the SR-207 is $535 USD less from STAX USA's pricing. Actually, looking at the SR-009 measurements, the SR-207 measures pretty close to that too. Not too bad for a $390 (that's 1/11 the price of the SR-009) headphone! Not bad at all. :


 
  
 Thanks for that miceblue; I said I didn't need to spend so much on "earwhatsits".
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/582131/is-anyone-building-the-kgsshv/420#post_10559430


----------



## complin

This sounds like mains borne electrical interference so might be worthwhile getting hold of a simple mains filter to plug your audio equipment into. http://www.james-audio-sales.co.uk/index_mainsnoiseexplained.htm
 As far as i'm aware the KGSS is not usually subject to such problems. I would pm Kevin Gilmore or Spritzer on this forum and ask if they can help you diagnose the problem or find a solution  
  
 Quote:


karlgerman said:


> Never had so many noise problems as with my KGSS and the 009.
> It is so sensitive that even the flickering of the MacbookPro display or a Iphone/ipad nearby can be easily heard.
> With the Stax Amps there will be no noise at all. Its going to be interesting how a BHSE will act. CANT WAIT(2 1/2 years now waiting) to find out!
> 
> Karl


----------



## karlgerman

thanks, we had some conversation already. one known thing is the transformer which has to be changed to a sealed highquality version. Spritzer told me that he had some transformers that tend to generate a humm.
  
 and nothing of the other equipment ever had a problem with interference noise. 
  
 but mains filter are always worth a try!


----------



## edstrelow

miceblue said:


> This was posted in the entry STAX thread, but I thought someone here might be curious too. Since Tyll received the custom electrostatic headphone amplifier, he's offering to measure electrostatic headphones. I sent in my SR-207 purchased last year and I just received them back today with a data sheet of measurements.
> 
> 
> 
> They look pretty much identical, if not better than the SR-507 measurements he did previously, so I'm not sure why anyone in their right mind would purchase the SR-507 over the SR-207 when the SR-207 is $535 USD less from STAX USA's pricing. Actually, looking at the SR-009 measurements, the SR-207 measures pretty close to that too. Not too bad for a $390 (that's 1/11 the price of the SR-009) headphone! Not bad at all. : o


u/ i


----------



## edstrelow

I am all for measurements but buyer beware. People measure what they can and I have seen virtually no studies showing that what is typically measured is what determines what we regard as good sound. That would be a lot more difficult scientific problem. If it had been solved we wouldn't be here spouting our subjective impressions, we would simply be discussing the latest data available.

 I think that frequency responses can be useful, but can be misleading because of coupling issues and frequency response corrections applied to the raw data.

In the end you still have to listen and decide for yourself. Go to meets and concerts of live, unamplified music to establish your standards.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

edstrelow said:


> I am all for measurements but buyer beware. People measure what they can and I have seen virtually no studies showing that what is typically measured is what determines what we regard as good sound. That would be a lot more difficult scientific problem. If it had been solved we wouldn't be here spouting our subjective impressions, we would simply be discussing the latest data available.
> 
> I think that frequency responses can be useful, but can be misleading because of coupling issues and frequency response corrections applied to the raw data.
> 
> In the end you still have to listen and decide for yourself. Go to meets and concerts of live, unamplified music to establish your standards.


 

 Let's assume we have the perfect methods for measuring headphones. Even then we couldn't just discuss the latest data, as our ears are not shaped in the exact same way. There's always that last human factor, so yes, in the end you still have to listen and decide for yourself - no matter how exact the measurements are.


----------



## miceblue

True true. From objective measurements though, using a similar system and methodology, comparative results can still be useful for some people.


----------



## complin

Ah I wish were as simple as that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 One of the most important things is that big blob of grey matter between your ears. This no doubt has a much bigger impact on our opinion of the sound based on our perceptions, personal experience, how its been "wired" together etc.  
  
 Quote:


amanand88keys said:


> Let's assume we have the perfect methods for measuring headphones. Even then we couldn't just discuss the latest data, as our ears are not shaped in the exact same way. There's always that last human factor, so yes, in the end you still have to listen and decide for yourself - no matter how exact the measurements are.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

complin said:


>


 

 I partially disagree, or think that we should be a bit more accurate in this matter.
 We initally process auditory stimuli in a very similar way, it's not like when I hear a high pitched noise you hear rumbling bass. The core of the problem are associations, memories and so on, on that I agree with you. It's not just "the brain", part of it is very reliable and accurate. The fun starts when memory (working, long term...) comes into play.


----------



## astrostar59

Oh man, please get to some top demo rooms of hi-fi shows. I just came back from one today, and there were some McIntosh 200k solid state systems which sounded
ok, hi-fi sounding but ok, a Linn system for 40K that sound flat, and there were some solid state systems at 20K that sounded really bad.

Then we heard some tube based systems in various room by Audio Note, Lampizator and some other Italian makes, and they were superb.
Plus the Audio Note system was hiked up really loud with 30 people nodding there heads, and that set up was 25K.

All the above were speaker systems with digital front ends.

Which room at the end of the day was full? It wasn't the solid state rooms....

Now what were you saying about tubes?


----------



## marcoarment

That's not really useful evidence of anything, though. Tubes are nostalgic, romantic, and exotic. I'd always expect them to do well in non-blinded, subjective "tests", especially in a room full of high-end audio enthusiasts.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

astrostar59 said:


> Oh man, please get to some top demo rooms of hi-fi shows. I just came back from one today, and there were some McIntosh 200k solid state systems which sounded
> 
> ok, hi-fi sounding but ok, a Linn system for 40K that sound flat, and there were some solid state systems at 20K that sounded really bad.
> 
> ...



 


What was I saying about tubes? Im not sure, but probably something about bandwaggoning not really proving anything


----------



## anetode

edstrelow said:


> I am all for measurements but buyer beware. People measure what they can and I have seen virtually no studies showing that what is typically measured is what determines what we regard as good sound.


 
 Look up Floyd Toole's and Sean Olive's work, for starters.
  
 W/R/T Lambdas, the 207s really are a great deal. I prefer the sound of the x07 line to the x04. As far as the difference between the 2/3/4/507s, it's kinda like with Grado - most differences are cosmetic.


----------



## astrostar59

> That's not really useful evidence of anything, though. Tubes are nostalgic, romantic, and exotic. I'd always expect them to do well in non-blinded, subjective "tests", especially in a room full of high-end audio enthusiasts.




Eer what? I would challenge that, by saying you are talking about your solid state systems here my friend. Audiophile enthusiasts obsessing over measurements
and 500x over sampling rates. The Audio Note room was full of regular guys, one guy brought his kids and they were enjoying the sound as well judging by tapping feet.

My take on the tube v solid state argument is each to their own, and I am not saying all solid state is bad, it isn't. What I am saying is in the real world and realistic sized living rooms
and playing all music types, a fantastic musical experience can be had with Redbook and tubed amplification. It seems simpler is better. The Lampizator DACs for example were a beautifully simple design with tubed output, but they sounds smooth, no digital edge, as good as vinyl, possibly better.

Tubes are nostalgic, romantic, exotic. I would say tubes are accurate, organic, real sounding in a well designed modern amplifier. Forget the 50's style warm glow and rounded off frequency response.
That is not where it is now. And the 50/50 split at the show of SS and tubed amplification says to me that tubes are alive and kicking. It is a brilliant combination of CD streaming with tubed amplification. Huge amounts of details and beautiful midrange realism with dynamics and bass when mated with 95db speakers.

I was lost a few years ago, drowning in a sea of huge solid stage power amps and gigantic inefficient speakers, Krell. McIntosh, Musical Fidelity. Now I am happy at last with my low powered SET 300B monoblocks driving horn hybrids. They give me so much more enjoyment it has brought me back to this hobby.....

Forget the glossy brochure and tech specs. Like buying a car, just go out and test drive it, and if it get you, rocks your boat, buy the thing!


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

marcoarment said:


> That's not really useful evidence of anything, though. Tubes are nostalgic, romantic, and exotic. I'd always expect them to do well in non-blinded, subjective "tests", especially in a room full of high-end audio enthusiasts.


 

 To each their own, but I just think you have no idea.... There are tube systems that are anything but nostalgic, romantic and exotic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. A great example would be Octave, their amps have a highly energetic and detailed sound that keeps you on your toes.


----------



## marcoarment

I got my new SR-009 on Monday and have been greatly enjoying it... until last night, when I was hit by the channel-imbalance flaw. The right driver is now noticeably softer than the left, and everything sounds like it's panned left by about 30 degrees. (My working theory is that the right driver got offended that I was using my earspeakers™ for the lowly job of editing a podcast.)
  
 I filled out the StaxUSA warranty inquiry form — let's see if they care that I bought it from PriceJapan.
  
 What's the usual procedure to fix this? Exchange for new (since it's so new) or send for service? Does it take a while? Do you get back a potentially-gross refurbished pair from a pool of replacements, or *your* pair that's actually been repaired?
  
 edit: Sorry, didn't realize there's a dedicated thread for the imbalance flaw. Moved my discussion there.


----------



## martyn73

marcoarment said:


> I got my new SR-009 on Monday and have been greatly enjoying it... until last night, when I was hit by the channel-imbalance flaw. The right driver is now noticeably softer than the left, and everything sounds like it's panned left by about 30 degrees. (My working theory is that the right driver got offended that I was using my earspeakers™ for the lowly job of editing a podcast.)
> 
> I filled out the StaxUSA warranty inquiry form — let's see if they care that I bought it from PriceJapan.
> 
> What's the usual procedure to fix this? Exchange for new (since it's so new) or send for service? Does it take a while? Do you get back a potentially-gross refurbished pair from a pool of replacements, or *your* pair that's actually been repaired?


 
 Hi,
  
 Have you tried adjusting the balance on the energiser by holding the front volume dial and turning the inner dial? I need to do this to correct mild hearing loss on my right side with my current SR-404 headphones. If the channel imbalance cannot be corrected using this method then the headphones must be returned. Unfortunately, I had to return a new pair SR-407 headphones bought from a Chinese eBay seller due to uncorrectable channel imbalance which occurred when changing energisers. I was able to diagnose uncorrectable channel imbalance because my other Stax headphones (SR-202) were fine on both SRM-212 and SRM-006T energisers.
  
 Another suggestion would be to remove the lead from the energiser and touch the connectors on the headphone lead with a moist finger. Any crackling sound from the headphones is normal. This may remove any parasitic capacitance which is a probable cause of the channel imbalance. 
  
 Perhaps PriceJapan would agree to refund you the import duties if you have to exchange the headphones - worth asking anyway.
  
  
 Martyn


----------



## fzman

marcoarment said:


> I got my new SR-009 on Monday and have been greatly enjoying it... until last night, when I was hit by the channel-imbalance flaw. The right driver is now noticeably softer than the left, and everything sounds like it's panned left by about 30 degrees. (My working theory is that the right driver got offended that I was using my earspeakers™ for the lowly job of editing a podcast.)
> 
> I filled out the StaxUSA warranty inquiry form — let's see if they care that I bought it from PriceJapan.
> 
> What's the usual procedure to fix this? Exchange for new (since it's so new) or send for service? Does it take a while? Do you get back a potentially-gross refurbished pair from a pool of replacements, or *your* pair that's actually been repaired?


 
  
 I hope you are able to get your problem resolved quickly and without a lot of hassle.  That said, it depends on whether pricejapan is an authorized Stax reseller, and whether they are actually authorized to ship them to the USA.  You will almost certainly have to ship them back to japan - probably at your own expense, and see what happens.I've not ordered from them before, so I cannot say from experience.
  
 I'm pretty sure Stax USA would care, since you did not buy them through their distribution network- you imported them yourself- so to speak, and therefore they are not responsible for any issue you have with the product or the transaction.
  
 Just my 2 cents worth


----------



## fzman

martyn73 said:


> Perhaps PriceJapan would agree to refund you the import duties if you have to exchange the headphones - worth asking anyway.
> 
> 
> Martyn


 
  
 You (the O.P. that is) should mark them as a defective return when you ship them back, and they should ship back to you clearly marked as repair/replacement.  Done correctly, this should eliminate duties/taxes and the like, but not shipping charges or brokerage fees.  This shoudl always be done when repair/return/replacements are shipped internationally.


----------



## davidsh

If marked as replacement in my country, you'll likely risk to have to pay taxes because it isn't the same pair coming back as you sent out for repair. Just saying.


----------



## yawg

I was able to test all the current Stax gear recently at a dealer in Berlin/Germany. I own a LNS with both the SRM-T1S and the SRM-3 energizers. Only the 009 was able to impress me positively, playing through the 4-tubes energizer. Listening to the 007 I preferred my ole LNS (with the new leather pads).
  
 The 009 was the first headphone I heard which made bass transients/kickdrum sound as realistic as my customized 3.6 Maggies (minus the body impact). I still prefer listening without some device on my head and a stationary sound stage. If I had to live with difficult neighbors the 009s would be a good alternative. But the price is still too far out IMO.
  
 I'm thinking about retiring to Thailand. Then selling my Maggies and getting the 009 would make sense ...


----------



## miceblue

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/extraordinary-diy-electrostatic-headphones-chinsettawong

Those are some dang good measurements for a D.I.Y. headphone. Dam...


----------



## martyn73

Hi,
  
 I'm thinking about buying a 323S to replace my 006T and don't want to wait up to 7 weeks for a UK stockist to deliver. Importing from China via eBay is the only other option but this would mean changing the voltage from 220V to UK 240V.
  
 Please can anyone recommend a UK electrics engineer who can do the conversion to 240V? I've seen the guide here kindly published by Spitzer but I don't have enough skill and experience to complete the conversion myself.
  
 Thanks, 
  
  
 Martyn


----------



## kevin gilmore

evidently from the latest picture I have just seen, new srm323s come with single voltage
 transformers. So voltage conversion is not possible. For sure the 100v only japanese
 version now has a single winding. So either find a 240v unit, or plan on using
 a stepdown transformer. And it would have to be 240 to 100 volt.
 If you use a 240 to 120 volt transformer the unit will definitely overheat and die quick.


----------



## martyn73

kevin gilmore said:


> evidently from the latest picture I have just seen, new srm323s come with single voltage
> transformers. So voltage conversion is not possible. For sure the 100v only japanese
> version now has a single winding. So either find a 240v unit, or plan on using
> a stepdown transformer. And it would have to be 240 to 100 volt.
> If you use a 240 to 120 volt transformer the unit will definitely overheat and die quick.


 
 Hi,
  
 Thanks for the advice and I guess I'd need to wait for a new 323S. Maybe a used 323S UK spec will become available quicker.
  
 Thanks,
  
 Martyn


----------



## preproman

Has anyone heard this amp with any Stax headphones?
  
 http://www.had-audiolab.com/products/power/maestral-4stax


----------



## martyn73

preproman said:


> Has anyone heard this amp with any Stax headphones?
> 
> http://www.had-audiolab.com/products/power/maestral-4stax


 
 Hi,
  
 That's a good find. Would the modest 150Vrms output of the Maetral 4Stax compared to the 300Vrms of a Stax 006T affect sound quality?
  
 Martyn


----------



## kevin gilmore

here is a pic of the 100V japan only transformer
http://cdn.head-fi.org/d/d2/d2c45bf6_IMG_20140620_181516.jpeg


----------



## Crashem

preproman said:


> Has anyone heard this amp with any Stax headphones?
> 
> http://www.had-audiolab.com/products/power/maestral-4stax




That amp uses the same tubes as my dac (6sn7 and 6x5). I wouldn't think that tube combo could provide enough juice for the harder to drive stax models. But I'll reserve judgement.


----------



## mechgamer123

Does anyone know where I could get a male normal bias connector for recabling a pair of old lambdas?


----------



## dude_500

mechgamer123 said:


> Does anyone know where I could get a male normal bias connector for recabling a pair of old lambdas?


 
  
 Moon audio has them, http://www.moon-audio.com/stax-cable-mount-5-pin-din.html
  
 If anyone knows the part number on this, I really really really want to know how to actually order them from a manufacturer! All the part numbers for both genders that were discussed some 3-5 years ago on various forums are all completely discontinued and unavailable.


----------



## georgep

that's a pro connector, normal would be 6-pin.
  
 And not a part number, but htis post might help - http://www.head-fi.org/t/581491/koss-esp-950-thread/1380#post_10636292


----------



## martin778

I just received my first Staxes, they are the Lambda Pro Classic with srm-xh.
  
 (sorry for the s*tload of questions  )
  
 1. Are there any health concerns of using electrostatic headphones for a long time? I use my headphones (sorry, earspeakers!) for about 5-6 hours a day when I'm using my laptop
 2. Is the Pro Classic different from the old Pro? I can't seem to find much about the Classic version.
 3. The foam pads are gone, do they make any difference in sound? The earpads are ok as they were almost never used.
 4. The SRM-Xh delivers 280V while the LPC are 580V, is it worthwile to upgrade to the SRM-1?


----------



## davidsh

The foam pad thing doesn't matter. Concerning health, we are exposed to high voltage static charges all the time.. Like when you get zapped.. Honestly I don't know..


----------



## gilency

No health concerns.
580V would sound better.


----------



## milosz

martin778 said:


> I just received my first Staxes, they are the Lambda Pro Classic with srm-xh.
> 
> (sorry for the s*tload of questions  )
> 
> ...


 
 Yes there ARE health concerns! Be sure to MEASURE how loud you are listening! Good transducers tend to encourage louder listening than is good for your hearing.  Get a cheap SPL meter (Parts Express, Radio Shack, eBay) and MEASURE how loud the sound is at your preferred listening level. (i.e., put the headphones on and listen for a while, then adjust to a level that you dig.  Remove the headphones and put a sheet of cardboard with a hole cut in it flat against the earpad. Push the mic of the SPL meter through the hole a bit and check the reading.)
  
 For 4~6 hours of listening, in my non-medical opinion, I believe you would be sure to avoid hearing damage listening _*no louder than 85 dB *_.
Here are some loudness/time facts to consider:


*At 95 dB*, damage will occur after four hours of exposure per day.
*At 100 dB*, damage will occur after two hours of exposure per day.
*At 105 dB*, damage will occur after one hour of exposure per day.
*At 110 dB*, damage will occur after 30 minutes of exposure per day.
*At 115 dB*, damage will occur after 15 minutes of exposure per day.
*At 120-plus dB*, damage occurs almost immediately.

 SEE http://medicine.stonybrookmedicine.edu/surgery/blog/headphones-and-earphones-can-cause-permanent-hearing-loss-what-you-need-to-know


----------



## complin

martin778 said:


> I just received my first Staxes, they are the Lambda Pro Classic with srm-xh.
> 
> (sorry for the s*tload of questions  )
> 
> ...


----------



## martin778

Well, according to Wikipedia:
  

_SRM-Xh__1997__280V__1x RCA__1x Pro Bias__Solid state_
  
 Wait a sec...bias voltage and output voltage are two different things? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I never listen to music on high levels ( unless it's Pink Floyd or Black Sabbath ) 
 I have to admit that on the 2nd day I have mixed feeling about the LPC and SRM-Xh, i find this combination a bit fatiguing.
  
 The Pro Classic are from about 1994 but if they are the entry model it would be very confusing as the Pro was TOTL at the time.


----------



## complin

Fatiguing in what way?
  
 Quote:


martin778 said:


> I have to admit that on the 2nd day I have mixed feeling about the LPC and SRM-Xh, i find this combination a bit fatiguing.


----------



## martin778

Somehow recessed and laid back mids and grainy highs also not too much bass (btw - why do they have so much bass when you keep them about1cm from the ears?)


----------



## complin

Do you prefer quite a forward sound, i.e. Grado style?
 Yes the Lambdas are a bit laid back but I would say very easy to listen too.
 The highs should be really extended, relatively smooth and shimmering, not grainy
 The bass should be well textured but not prominent like many dynamics, so you might perceive them as a little lighter than some.
  
 Have you tried them with a different source. I see you have a CD player I've personally no experience of.
   
 Quote:


martin778 said:


> Somehow recessed and laid back mids and grainy highs also not too much bass (btw - why do they have so much bass when you keep them about1cm from the ears?)


----------



## martin778

I haven't heard Grado cans yet but before I bought the Staxes I had AKG K530 and the AKG's sound much more 'relaxed' than the electrostats. I also had DT990Pro 250Ohm in the past but I dumped them when one channel started to distort after 3 months of use.
  
 The Vimak DT-800 is a quite old CD player from the 90's that was aimed at the hi-end market to compete with Wadia, Krell etc. The company went under quite rapidly after their totl model receiver a not-so-good review in Stereophile, sadly. It's a marvellous sounding player (warm with greath soundstage) equipped with 18 bit Motorola DSP and only Vishay BC and Panasonic FC/FM caps, it also weighs a ton due to diecast front panel and thick copper plated chassis.
  
 I had to replace the drive a few weeks ago and made a couple of pics, they are not the best quality but they should give you an idea:
 https://picasaweb.google.com/113866476427071010829/VimakDT800?authuser=0&feat=directlink
  
 The Lambdas sound much better connected to the CDP, using Audioquest King Cobra interconnect than connected directly to my notebook which sound quite hollow and tinny compared to the CDP.
 However I can still hear that little bit agressiveness in the sound. I wonder if it's the SRM-Xh's fault as I have the old version based on the original SRM-X.


----------



## troymadison

Just wanna say my SR-407 sounds way better now that I upgraded to the beta22 with the woo wee. All the major problems I had with them completely went away.


----------



## milosz

Oh, that's interesting, driving Stax with a Beta 22 / transformer setup.  Beta 22 is a lovely amp.  (Insert shameless plug for pictures of a Beta 22 that I built * HERE* )
  
 I've driven Lambda Signature, SR-007 MK1's and recabled ES-950's from an SRD-7 driven by various amps:
  
 Monarchy SM70 (the real class A original version)
 AMC CVT-2030 (class-A amp with EL34 outputs and MOSFET driver; highly under-appreciated amp)
 Pass Firstwatt J3 (class A power JFET amp)
 Forte 4a (with Soderburg mods)
 Dynaco ST70
 Sugden A28
 H-K Citation II
 Old NAD 7250 receiver
  
 My faves here were the CVT-2030 and the Forte 4a, though really there was not much difference between any these amps- with the exception of the NAD receiver and the Dynaco Stereo 70.
  
 The NAD sounded noticeably "darker" - not really rolled off highs as far as I could tell, yet still "dark."  Not muffled, or dull in the highs, not a lack of detail,  yet still dark sounding.  Hard to put into words.
  
 The Dyanco Stereo 70 had nearly a total lack of detail. Again, oddly, it did not sound like rolled-off treble, but it sounded like all the detail between sounds and within sounds was somehow smoothed off.  The Stereo 70 sounded that way on my my Quad ESL-57's also. The Stereo 70 was all recapped with good quality / audiophile type caps, good / matched NOS tubes and etc but it still sounded "smoothed over" and not detailed.


----------



## martin778

That's odd about the Dynaco, i haven't heard it myself but it seems to be a quite highly regarded amp?
  
  
 By the way, what is the correct description of the SR-404 signature? SR-404 Lambda Signature or simply SR404 Signature?


----------



## milosz

Gee I don't know about 404 Signature or Lambda or what have you.  I don't know much about the 404 / 507 etc models.
  
 Lot of folks like the Stereo 70 'cause it's an affordable tube amp, a classic, and has 'liquid midrange'  and decent bass, but it's a rather dated design that doesn't compare to modern amps in some ways. The Stereo 70 wasn't as good as the best designs of it's own era, either.  My H-K Citation II sounds FANTASTIC, no lack of detail there.
  
 Maybe there was something wrong with the particular Stereo 70 that I had, but I don't think so.  It measured OK.


----------



## zolkis

milosz said:


> I've driven Lambda Signature, SR-007 MK1's and recabled ES-950's from an SRD-7 driven by various amps


 
  
 Perhaps I have already mentioned this, eventually I repeat it as a side note: in countries with 220-240V power grid, it is worth trying the SRD-7 via a 100V step-down transformer, since the SRD-7 works with that 'native' voltage. With 230V it basically gets a near square wave power supply signal through the Zener's. I listened to it with and without the step-down transformer (using an EL34 PP amp), and it was much more preferable with the transformer: smoother, more refined, more relaxed as opposed to the original's edgier, rougher, but slightly more spacious sound.
  
 Then, one can take and improve the SRD-7 design, in power supply and better transformers/other parts, and the difference can be quite big, depending on parts quality. I know it's been debated, but in my experience a properly done transformer solution with a good amp goes very close to the best, at a moderate cost. Also, it has more of the 'see through' transparency wrt the amp behind than the SRD-7. The best I've heard was quite a monster of a prototype, with a circlotron-like SS amp behind: made the 007 sound explosive with tremendous energy. It was more dynamic than my TH900. The high voltage amps may be more neutral and certainly faster, but I liked what I heard, and IMO electrostatic headphones benefit more from a bit more energy than (even) more resolution - YMMV.
However, the SRD-7 is a tremendous value, especially if one also happens to have a good stereo amp/speakers. Otherwise getting/building e.g. a KGSSHV may be a better idea for total cost vs sound.


----------



## dude_500

zolkis said:


> Perhaps I have already mentioned this, eventually I repeat it as a side note: in countries with 220-240V power grid, it is worth trying the SRD-7 via a 100V step-down transformer, since the SRD-7 works with that 'native' voltage. With 230V it basically gets a near square wave power supply signal through the Zener's. I listened to it with and without the step-down transformer (using an EL34 PP amp), and it was much more preferable with the transformer: smoother, more refined, more relaxed as opposed to the original's edgier, rougher, but slightly more spacious sound.


 
  
 How could a square wave rectified output possibly affect the sound through the bias voltage of electrostatic headphones? It's charging up a DC supply cap through a voltage multiplier, and then there is no-load placed on the capacitor (the diaphragm draws no current - if it did, electrostatic headphones would not work). This means the high voltage cap is charged to a peak voltage, and then nothing happens on subsequent mains cycles except maybe a few picoamps of trickle charge. If you charge a capacitor with sine wave or square wave, it is scientifically impossible to discriminate the input after initial charging even with the finest measuring equipment if there is no load on the capacitor.
  
 And to top it off, the diaphragm of electrostatic headphones is a strong low-pass filter well below audio frequency, this is why it is a resistive coating instead of a conductive coating. If this were not the case, electrostatic headphones would not work due to charge migration. So even if on the off chance you invent some piece of measuring equipment that can measure ripple that doesn't exist, the headphones would just filter it out.
  
  
 Conclusion: In the opinion of science, don't waste your money on a step down transformer for an SRD-7.


----------



## zolkis

Well, thanks... looks like one can never trust the ears .


----------



## Katoom

Apologues if Im hoing off topic and should be posting eldewhere, but I'm new to the forum and enjoying reading through 175 pages of chat. However i I haven't yet seen an answer to a question. Where to buy a 007 system and get best value for money?

I have seen a 'previously cherished' sustem (with SRM 707) for sale at 2000 (GBP) but being a noob I'm worried I might be buying trouble. I've seen mention of grey imports and in particular Price.Japan but they don't list the 007. 

I'd welcome some advice, even to rethink my approach and visit the nearest approved distributor although, being situated in the south west, nearest is a relative term. 

Meanwhile I'll keep reading and developing a suspicion that my source might not be up to the job, but that's for another day. 

Thanks all


----------



## Katoom

Oh bother, should have posted in Help & Recommendstions. Not an auspicious start. Can the moderator put me right please.


----------



## zolkis

katoom said:


> Where to buy a 007 system and get best value for money?


 
  
 Make sure you listen to a 007 first, compared to other Stax headphones: the old Stax SR-Lambda, 407/507, SR-Omega, 009. Take your time with them, because the first impression may be misleading: the 007 most definitely needs time for proper appreciation. At first listen, I preferred the 507 over the 007 Mk2 but your miles may vary. Sometimes even over the stock form of the 007 Mk1 which I have. The SR-009 trounced everything on first listen, and on the second, too. However, after I managed to make the 007 sound more open, resolved and more spacious by properly setting the head band and changing the ear pads, I have settled with it for long term and I love listening to music through it: no fatigue, just highly resolved 'analog' sound, with lots of surprises how good it sounds with new and new passages. I recommend the old series (case with ugly rectangular rubber corners, as opposed to nicer rounded plastic ones, usually 70xxx serials - there was a more exact post about 'good' serial numbers; although a part of the difference is in the ear pads which I anyway changed).
  
However, the 007 Mk1 is very demanding on amplification and can sound considerably different via various amps. For the total cost I am not sure if you wouldn't be better off with a 009 with simpler (and used) amplification, at least for start. However, the 009 is kind of risky for a grey import because the alleged channel imbalance issues (although I think it's much less frequent than the noise would indicate). A tried-and-used 009 may be a safe choice, but relatively rare (unless people move on to the JPS Abyss, I don't see the point in changing the 009 - if not for an SR-Omega or a 007 Mk1 plus money .


----------



## Michgelsen

katoom said:


> Apologues if Im hoing off topic and should be posting eldewhere, but I'm new to the forum and enjoying reading through 175 pages of chat. However i I haven't yet seen an answer to a question. Where to buy a 007 system and get best value for money?
> 
> I have seen a 'previously cherished' sustem (with SRM 707) for sale at 2000 (GBP) but being a noob I'm worried I might be buying trouble. I've seen mention of grey imports and in particular Price.Japan but they don't list the 007.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome to head-fi.

 If you mean the SRM-717 (707 doesn't exist), I can tell you from years of personal experience that it is a great combination with the SR-007mk1. Both the SRM-717 and SR-007 are generally very reliable. Whether you're buying trouble depends on the state of the equipment. If it sounds good and appears to be well taken care of, you should be fine I guess. A Stax amp should be repairable by a local qualified technician if anything were to go wrong.
 By the way, the SRM-717 has a voltage selector switch on the back, so no need for step-down or -up transformers, but please check this before you're buying second-hand (from overseas). Grey import should not be a problem for the older Stax amps. The newer Stax amps don't have a voltage selector switch anymore though, to make grey import more difficult. In that case you will need a transformer, or be handy with a soldering iron.
  
 Where to get best value for money? In the second-hand market, obviously.


----------



## martin778

Can someone tell me the difference between the Lamda Pro and Lambda Pro Classic? Even the headphone wiki doesn't know anything about the Classic.
  
 For now I'm almost sure that they are the same but the Classic just being a reissue as both have:
  
 a) Are 580V pro bias
 b) Both have 1.5um diaphragm (*not 2.0 as some would say!!*)
 c) They look 99% the same (the 1% is that I'm not sure how the headband of the 'original' Pro looks like)
  
 The only difference I could find is that the Classic, just like the newer series doesn't have the fibreglass filling.
 I'm still curious about the stator construction, does the Classic utilize the Nova style stators or not.
  
 To be honest - I like how they sound but simply HATE the way Stax names their headphones, it's so unclear!


----------



## angeche

Hi all!
  
 Well, I had an old Stax Sr-5 that I have started using again after discovering the possibilities of portable DAPs. I am currently listening to the Fiio X5. 
  
 While waiting for the Stax 507, I succumbed to temptation and bought a SR-009. I am currently listening to them. I am a bit disappointed. Do not take me wrong: the middle and low frequency in the 1812 Overture are impressive and I realize I am listening to music in its purest form. Having said that, I find them so neutral that I miss the SR-5 "brightness".....I am using a SRM-T1S....
  
 The question is, am I mad? 
  
 Best
  
 Jose


----------



## jackskelly

angeche said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Well, I had an old Stax Sr-5 that I have started using again after discovering the possibilities of portable DAPs. I am currently listening to the Fiio X5.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would say to give them more time. When I first listened to the 009, I really didn't think it was better than the HD 800 I owned at the time, but gradually I got used to it's sound and when I listened to the HD 800's again after only listening to the 009 for several weeks, the HD 800 sounded rather boring and veiled (in comparison). I ended up selling them a few months later mainly because I just stopped listening to them for the most part. Of course it's mostly a matter of personal preference.


----------



## mulveling

jackskelly said:


> I would say to give them more time. When I first listened to the 009, I really didn't think it was better than the HD 800 I owned at the time, but gradually I got used to it's sound and when I listened to the HD 800's again after only listening to the 009 for several weeks, the HD 800 sounded rather boring and veiled (in comparison). I ended up selling them a few months later mainly because I just stopped listening to them for the most part. Of course it's mostly a matter of personal preference.


 
  
 Hah, we all experience these things differently. Almost 10 years ago now, when I first heard the L3000 (imported from Japan) in a quick 2 minute impression, I though it sounded rather similar to my reference HD650/Zu (and at that time I was a bit disappointed considering the price paid). After a more serious listening session, it became clear that I *significantly* preferred them to the HD650, and that's stuck with me ever since.
  
 I first heard the SR-009 a few weeks ago after comparing HD800/L3000/Qualia/Orpheus. It was immediately apparent that the 009 exists on a higher plane of refinement and resolution, and I was immediately impressed by this. A subsequent listening session allowed me to discover their musicality as well. Give it another chance; sometimes gear impresses immediately and sometimes it takes a 2nd or 3rd chance (rare, but I've had that happen too).


----------



## Ali-Pacha

angeche said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Well, I had an old Stax Sr-5 that I have started using again after discovering the possibilities of portable DAPs. I am currently listening to the Fiio X5.
> 
> ...


 
 I've walked the same path...damn used to SR-5, and blasting wallet madness with SR-009.
 I wasn't disappointed at all :extension, details, bass slam, soundstage, etc...but yes, you lose the extreme mid fun / voice-friendly tone of these brave old SR-5.
 Now I'm used to SR-009, and since I still find SR-5 pleasant, they are definitely kind of a boy versus the full-grown adult SR-009.

 Ali


----------



## paradoxper

jackskelly said:


> I would say to give them more time. When I first listened to the 009, I really didn't think it was better than the HD 800 I owned at the time, but gradually I got used to it's sound and when I listened to the HD 800's again after only listening to the 009 for several weeks, the HD 800 sounded rather boring and veiled (in comparison). I ended up selling them a few months later mainly because I just stopped listening to them for the most part. Of course it's mostly a matter of personal preference.


 
 Yup. HD 800 is just so meh in comparison.


----------



## anetode

angeche said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Well, I had an old Stax Sr-5 that I have started using again after discovering the possibilities of portable DAPs. I am currently listening to the Fiio X5.
> 
> ...


 

 The SR009's treble is a little subdued from the Stax of old, also the upper mids aren't quite as forward as on Lambdas. They're by no means lacking in extension or upper end energy, but it's not surprising that you noticed a difference in a back and forth.


----------



## dukeskd

angeche said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Well, I had an old Stax Sr-5 that I have started using again after discovering the possibilities of portable DAPs. I am currently listening to the Fiio X5.
> 
> ...


 

 No you're not. Don't take the price of a headphone as a benchmark to sound quality. Your personal sound quality is what matters the most. I personally was not a fan of SR-009s bass and presentation so I sold it, I much prefer the lower end Stax phones in comparison.


----------



## Audio Jester

This is similar to my experience. I tried the HD800 and thought "this has got serious potential" then I tried the 009 and I realised I couldn't live without them.


----------



## jackskelly

audio jester said:


> This is similar to my experience. I tried the HD800 and thought "this has got serious potential" then I tried the 009 and I realised I couldn't live without them.


 
  
 Yeah, the sound of electrostatics with a good source and amplification has really spoiled me. It's sometimes hard to imagine trading this type of sound for that from a flagship dynamic can.


----------



## astrostar59

I came from the Lambda Nova Basic to Lambda Nova Sigma to 007s Mk2s to 009s. The SQ has been a a steady progression upwards for me in my set up. Though as regards signature or character, I would say the 009s are more like a 507 on steroids as opposed to a better version of the 007s.

It is the detail, the depth of stage and placement of instruments that puts the 009s well ahead of the 007s. I did like the 007s though, and can see (my guess) what the design philosophy of them might be i.e. to tame a digital front end and generally smooth things over and add a realistic bass response for the first time in the line up.

Don't get me wrong, there is bass in the 507s and earlier Lambdas, but it is more filling in as opposed to a big part of the sound.

Maybe the 009s are taking the best of the Lamda Nova signatures I liked at that time so much, and adding much more on top?

If there is a flaw with the 009s, it could be they produce what is there without any brakes or hold ups - it is is a bright recording it will be right in your face bright.
If it has bass saturation as many dance tracks do, it will give you shed loads of bass. 

I think it is like a performance car, subtle touches of the accelerator produce marked speed changes. If we looked at a 200K speaker system, that would have the same effect.,
load passages would have the neighbours banging on the door. You get where I am coming from? It is the dynamic capability of the drivers in the 009s, all that headroom and ultra
low distortion. Plus they are easier to drive and like a 98DB speaker, hit hard when required, not needing a massive amp to get the impact.

So, to me, to get the best from the 009s does need a clean and smooth front end. Any digital edge will be heard and be an irritation. They don't emphasise that as much as
the Lambdas did IMO but there is nowhere to hide with the 009s, it is a stethoscope to the source for sure.

Of course, the reward for this is good and great recording have you lost in the music, the connection is remarkable. And it is this I love them for. Yes the 007s were kinder to all tracks, but came with a caveat - they distanced you from the music and put a warm glow or screen between you and the music.

I am thinking of buying some 507s though, for my 'portable' rig. I am nervous about lugging the 009s around in the car.


----------



## dukeskd

astrostar59 said:


> I am thinking of buying some 507s though, for my 'portable' rig. I am nervous about lugging the 009s around in the car.


 

 009 + Car = does not compute. Unless of course you're Bill Gates.


----------



## kothganesh

dukeskd said:


> 009 + Car = does not compute. Unless of course you're Bill Gates.


 
 +1. I can see the BHSE on the front seat passenger side


----------



## astrostar59

Yeah but my hearing is better than Bill Gates.

No, I meant to say when I staying away from home for a month or more. Kinda miss the tunes and it is nice to have a second rig for such occasions. Lets face it Telly is crap, apart from The Walking Dead series....


----------



## zolkis

astrostar59 said:


> I am thinking of buying some 507s though, for my 'portable' rig. I am nervous about lugging the 009s around in the car.


 
  
 I think the noise on the road kills most of the the difference between the 507 and 009, even when you drive a super-silent car. Good that they both are acoustically transparent and won't distract you from hearing what happens on the road. I also tried using noise-cancelling headphones (QC15) on the long lonely rides on motorway (not much danger around), and although they are so inferior in room silence, I like them the most in that noisy environment. It just provides much more of a zen-mood for driving than better headphones paired with much higher background noise.


----------



## bearFNF

astrostar59 said:


> Yeah but my hearing is better than Bill Gates.
> 
> No, I meant to say when I staying away from home for a month or more. Kinda miss the tunes and it is nice to have a second rig for such occasions. Lets face it Telly is crap, apart from The Walking Dead series....



A Pelican case would probably be a good idea. One big enough to fit both the BHSE and 009.


----------



## angeche

Going back to the 009 vs the sr-5, thanks for the comments, they were helpful. I will insist on it and will tell ypu how the listening experience evolves....


----------



## milosz

bearfnf said:


> A Pelican case would probably be a good idea. One big enough to fit both the BHSE and 009.


 
 I think the pelican would resent having to share the space.
  
 Maybe you could tap off some of the spark plug coil's high voltage, store / smooth it with capacitors & diodes and use it for headphone bias...


----------



## astrostar59

Hey, this has got me fired up! Could I run a main cable to my sun chairs? That would be nice.
Some gaffer tape round the 240V connections should be ok right?


----------



## milosz

astrostar59 said:


> Hey, this has got me fired up! Could I run a main cable to my sun chairs? That would be nice.
> Some gaffer tape round the 240V connections should be ok right?


 
 Actually you can use a small-ish 12 volt battery (motorcycle battery would do, or some gel-cell purchased off eBay) and a $50 power inverter to produce "line current" type power to run a Stax rig at the beach.  I suspect a well-charged motorcyle battery would easily run the Stax amp and a digital player for many hours, and wouldn't be very heavy or large- fit in a backpack, surely, or beach carry-all.
  
 Some power inverters might generate a lot of noise on their power outputs, though, and you might end up with a buzz or a whine coming through. I think you'd have to try out the lower-cost inverter first to see if it's acceptable. Using a "pure sine" inverter would minimize this.  A 350 watt "pure sine" inverter is about $100.


----------



## alcyst

I think you can do better than the basic Pelican case;

http://www.dtail.com/2014/05/blackhawk-secretary-by-restoration-hardware/


----------



## bearFNF

I just got a Woo WEE a few weeks ago.  I had them put a normal and pro bias on it.  I have been listening to my Lambda normal bias plugged directly into it and its working just fine.
  
 I go and get my extension cables that I have been using with the SRD7/SB since 198X something (the package says it was model SRE15N, yes I still have it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
 But I see that there are only 5 pins??? WTH?? Now I am know I am being paranoid, and the earspeakers have been just fine all these years, BUT, now that I am using a powered energizer, the Woo WEE, I have to ask the gurus here.  Is it ok to use the 5 pin cable with normal bias plug on the WEE?  I have looked around for the pin out to understand what eh middle pin is for but have come up empty, I even went back through the original stax threads looking and can not find anything.


----------



## davidsh

It's all fine just NEVER use a normal bias Stax from a pro bias. The 6th pin does nothing to my knowledge, and if anything it carries bias voltage.


----------



## AngryAudiophile

Been considering a jump from the 007 to the 009.  Not sure though, I fear missing the yummy tone of the 007 that I've come to love.  My ears crave more clarity.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

bearfnf said:


> I just got a Woo WEE a few weeks ago.  I had them put a normal and pro bias on it.  I have been listening to my Lambda normal bias plugged directly into it and its working just fine.
> 
> I go and get my extension cables that I have been using with the SRD7/SB since 198X something (the package says it was model SRE15N, yes I still have it
> 
> ...


 
 Former Stax extension cables used to have 5-pin male plug and 6-pin female plug. Thus, you may use it for all Stax gear...but you have to be extremely careful, never plug normal bias phones on a pro output with this cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ali


----------



## bearFNF

Ok thanks guys, was just a making sure.


ali-pacha said:


> Former Stax extension cables used to have 5-pin male plug and 6-pin female plug. Thus, you may use it for all Stax gear...but you have to be extremely careful, never plug normal bias phones on a pro output with this cable
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


davidsh said:


> It's all fine just NEVER use a normal bias Stax from a pro bias. The 6th pin does nothing to my knowledge, and if anything it carries bias voltage.


----------



## kevin gilmore

6 pin plugs have 2 bias wires, one for each side.


----------



## jackskelly

Is there anyone here who knows Russian and would be so kind to translate what he says in this video? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've used google translate and read the article that's in the youtube video's description, but I'm curious what he says in video.


----------



## bearFNF

kevin gilmore said:


> 6 pin plugs have 2 bias wires, one for each side.


 

 OK, thank you. 
  
 Do you agree with the earlier statements that there is no concern about using the cables with Normal bias plug from the WEE?


----------



## gepardcv

jackskelly said:


> Is there anyone here who knows Russian and would be so kind to translate what he says in this video?


 
 I'll give it a shot. I've never done running translation like this before, so it might be a bit rough. Bear with me.  I'll record times from the video in case you want to watch and read along.
  
 "Testing Stax [headphones]. Here is the classic model [points at 307s], the previous flagship, model 007, and the new flagship, model 009. The source is [a brand or model I can't make out], and we have two amplifiers, one solid state and one vacuum tube [he doesn't say what models]. We obviously prefer tubes. But let me try to figure this out: [0:52] what distinguishes the three headphone models: 009, 007, and 307? Everyone knows these [points at 307s], they're Stax classics, but does the new flagship sound 10 times better than the classic model? Because it certainly costs 10 times more. [1:23] Technologically, everything is the same: electrostatic transducers, except these are rectangular [holds up 307s], and these are round [points at 009s]. [shrugs, puts on 307s] Classic Stax sound, incredibly transparent, wide ["large scale"], beautiful, everything is great. Now the 007s [puts them on, 1:41]. [1:53] A bit more detail, there's a certain elegance in the presentation... [1:59] 009s. And here is also space [spreads his arms wide at 2:07], and breath... [2:17] Well guys, if you don't have money for monitors from [some brand I can't make out] or speakers from [another brand; I either have don't know these speaker companies or don't recognize their Russified names], then... you just have to spend the same amount of money on headphones! [fade out and in] It should be obvious that the sound you've been hearing in the video clip has nothing to do with the sound I heard from these headphones. I had to substitute a fake for the video, because I couldn't have recorded from inside my ears... could I?"
  
 One of the comments on the video points out that the guy in the video seems to have worn the 009s backwards. Which means they should have been uncomfortable and didn't seal properly.
  
 The accompanying article only discusses the 007s. Very little new information here. The author basically loves them, and spends most of the text explaining how electrostatic transducers work, and notes a bit about their history. Notes that conventional headphones he used to love don't sound so great anymore, not after listening to Stax. He also talks about the measurements, noting that treble fall-off in the FR chart (NB: I didn't look for any other measurements of 007s to see if the graphs look reasonable), but says he doesn't really feel it. (Which surprises me: my brief time with 007s made me think they're rather dark, compared to 009s and SR-Omegas.)


----------



## jackskelly

gepardcv said:


> I'll give it a shot. I've never done running translation like this before, so it might be a bit rough. Bear with me.  I'll record times from the video in case you want to watch and read along.
> 
> "Testing Stax [headphones]. Here is the classic model [points at 307s], the previous flagship, model 007, and the new flagship, model 009. The source is [a brand or model I can't make out], and we have two amplifiers, one solid state and one vacuum tube [he doesn't say what models]. We obviously prefer tubes. But let me try to figure this out: [0:52] what distinguishes the three headphone models: 009, 007, and 307? Everyone knows these [points at 307s], they're Stax classics, but does the new flagship sound 10 times better than the classic model? Because it certainly costs 10 times more. [1:23] Technologically, everything is the same: electrostatic transducers, except these are rectangular [holds up 307s], and these are round [points at 009s]. [shrugs, puts on 307s] Classic Stax sound, incredibly transparent, wide ["large scale"], beautiful, everything is great. Now the 007s [puts them on, 1:41]. [1:53] A bit more detail, there's a certain elegance in the presentation... [1:59] 009s. And here is also space [spreads his arms wide at 2:07], and breath... [2:17] Well guys, if you don't have money for monitors from [some brand I can't make out] or speakers from [another brand; I either have don't know these speaker companies or don't recognize their Russified names], then... you just have to spend the same amount of money on headphones! [fade out and in] It should be obvious that the sound you've been hearing in the video clip has nothing to do with the sound I heard from these headphones. I had to substitute a fake for the video, because I couldn't have recorded from inside my ears... could I?"
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you gepardcv, that's more than a great enough effort. It appears that he likes STAX headphones in general.


----------



## milosz

gepardcv said:


> I'll give it a shot. I've never done running translation like this before, so it might be a bit rough. Bear with me.  I'll record times from the video in case you want to watch and read along.


 
 Wow, what a fantastic job of translation!  Impressive.


----------



## kevin gilmore

bearfnf said:


> OK, thank you.
> 
> Do you agree with the earlier statements that there is no concern about using the cables with Normal bias plug from the WEE?


 
  
 will be fine other than the mismatch between real stax jacks and the amphenol parts


----------



## anetode

gepardcv said:


> I'll give it a shot. I've never done running translation like this before, so it might be a bit rough. Bear with me.  I'll record times from the video in case you want to watch and read along.
> 
> "Testing Stax [headphones]. Here is the classic model [points at 307s], the previous flagship, model 007, and the new flagship, model 009. The source is [a brand or model I can't make out], and we have two amplifiers, one solid state and one vacuum tube [he doesn't say what models]. We obviously prefer tubes. But let me try to figure this out: [0:52] what distinguishes the three headphone models: 009, 007, and 307? Everyone knows these [points at 307s], they're Stax classics, but does the new flagship sound 10 times better than the classic model? Because it certainly costs 10 times more. [1:23] Technologically, everything is the same: electrostatic transducers, except these are rectangular [holds up 307s], and these are round [points at 009s]. [shrugs, puts on 307s] Classic Stax sound, incredibly transparent, wide ["large scale"], beautiful, everything is great. Now the 007s [puts them on, 1:41]. [1:53] A bit more detail, there's a certain elegance in the presentation... [1:59] 009s. And here is also space [spreads his arms wide at 2:07], and breath... [2:17] Well guys, if you don't have money for monitors from [some brand I can't make out] or speakers from [another brand; I either have don't know these speaker companies or don't recognize their Russified names], then... you just have to spend the same amount of money on headphones! [fade out and in] It should be obvious that the sound you've been hearing in the video clip has nothing to do with the sound I heard from these headphones. I had to substitute a fake for the video, because I couldn't have recorded from inside my ears... could I?"
> 
> ...


 

 The source is a Wadia. Unfortunately the measurements in that article are utter crap; it's not just that they contradict all of the other 009 measurements, which they do, it's that they didn't even bother to use the proper settings. See the weird smoothing on the frequency response and the accompanying poor capture of the impulse response.


----------



## troymadison

After briefly hearing the o2mk2, I would say it is the best headphone I've heard that is not AKG


----------



## timkk

Hi guys,
 I'm new to this forum so please don't kill me if I'm asking stupid questions. There is huge amount of information in here and it's pretty hard to go through all of it, though, I'm trying. So anyway I've bought STAX lambda Signature with SRM-T1 energiser. I also bought Stax lambda pros but that's another story . Are there any mod's that improve sound and can be easily done? Also, I was also trying to search through head-fi.org in order to find out what DAC to buy. As of now I'm connecting SRM-T1 into laptop's headphone jack. Will I hear a lot of improvement with dedicated DAC? If so, what's recommended DAC for it? I could't find anything in the forums.
 Thx guys for any help.
  
 side question:
 Are these Stax really comparable to HD800 and similar dynamic headphones? This guys prefers them to HD800 for example:
 http://kenrockwell.com/audio/stax/sr-lambda-pro.htm


----------



## complin

So what's wrong with the sound and why do you want to mod them?
  
 Lets not discuss Mr Rockwell and his opinions, just say we are likely to get banned if we do!
  
 The HD800's are undoubtedly great dynamic phones but they are very difficult to get right in terms of amplification and source, more so than Stax 
  
 Quote:


timkk said:


> Hi guys,
> I'm new to this forum so please don't kill me if I'm asking stupid questions. There is huge amount of information in here and it's pretty hard to go through all of it, though, I'm trying. So anyway I've bought STAX lambda Signature with SRM-T1 energiser. I also bought Stax lambda pros but that's another story . Are there any mod's that improve sound and can be easily done? Also, I was also trying to search through head-fi.org in order to find out what DAC to buy. As of now I'm connecting SRM-T1 into laptop's headphone jack. Will I hear a lot of improvement with dedicated DAC? If so, what's recommended DAC for it? I could't find anything in the forums.
> Thx guys for any help.
> 
> ...


----------



## timkk

Hehe, is he really that controversial? He seems to have a ton of high end equipment on his hands and looks to be doing alright in life as well ... Anyway, nothing wrong really, just thought they could be improved easily . So I guess the most important question is about DAC vs laptop's headphone jack. Is it worth buying proper DAC? If so, what's recommended?


----------



## complin

Depends what type of sound you are looking for from your DAC
 They range from dull and laid back to bright, dry and analytical and several flavors in between 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Whats your poison?


----------



## timkk

complin said:


> Depends what type of sound you are looking for from your DAC
> They range from dull and laid back to bright, dry and analytical and several flavors in between
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I bought SRM-T1 to help with stax's slight brightness (at least that's what was written in some of the reviews). I prefer a little warm side of things.


----------



## marcoarment

I can't believe I'm defending Ken Rockwell, but the guy has a lot of great info and opinions out there, and only a handful of really wild stuff that's highly arguable. Lots of pros disagree with some of what he says, but overall, I'd say he hits more often than he misses. If you write off everything he says, you're missing out on a lot of good stuff. But like any opinion you read, you shouldn't take it as 100% gospel.
  
 I disagree with "pro" reviewers all the time. I still can't hear any noticeable difference between different DACs, amps, or cables unless a DAC is actually passing audible *noise* through, an amp is underpowered for the load, or a cable is cut in half. People claiming to hear huge differences make me think one of us is nuts, and I hope it's not me, but I really don't know. (I assume it's me. At least I can save a ton of money.)
  
 Those are pretty big disagreements, but I still read and consider as many informed opinions as I can find when making a buying decision. You're doing yourself a disservice if you rule someone out completely because you disagree with a few of their opinions.


----------



## steve2151

timkk said:


> I bought SRM-T1 to help with stax's slight brightness (at least that's what was written in some of the reviews). I prefer a little warm side of things.


 
  
 For a darker sounding dac, I've heard and liked the Neko D100 and the Audio-GD SA-1, with the Neko being somewhat warmer sounding in my opinion. Both are great single ended options and should work well with the SRM-T1 (the Neko dac has a balanced variant as well).
  
 The sound signature of your dac is one of those personal love-it or hate-it things. Given a minimum level of technical proficiency, most dacs can be said to have some merit.


----------



## davidsh

marcoarment said:


> I can't believe I'm defending Ken Rockwell, but the guy has a lot of great info and opinions out there, and only a handful of really wild stuff that's highly arguable. Lots of pros disagree with some of what he says, but overall, I'd say he hits more often than he misses. If you write off everything he says, you're missing out on a lot of good stuff. But like any opinion you read, you shouldn't take it as 100% gospel.
> 
> I disagree with "pro" reviewers all the time. I still can't hear any noticeable difference between different DACs, amps, or cables unless a DAC is actually passing audible *noise* through, an amp is underpowered for the load, or a cable is cut in half. People claiming to hear huge differences make me think one of us is nuts, and I hope it's not me, but I really don't know. (I assume it's me. At least I can save a ton of money.)
> 
> Those are pretty big disagreements, but I still read and consider as many informed opinions as I can find when making a buying decision. You're doing yourself a disservice if you rule someone out completely because you disagree with a few of their opinions.


 
 Agreed, though theey are clearly nuts, come to sound science and you will feel better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Besides, T1 and LS sound great. Someone recommended trying the RCA clear tops btw.


----------



## arnaud

marcoarment said:


> I can't believe I'm defending Ken Rockwell, but the guy has a lot of great info and opinions out there, and only a handful of really wild stuff that's highly arguable. Lots of pros disagree with some of what he says, but overall, I'd say he hits more often than he misses. If you write off everything he says, you're missing out on a lot of good stuff. But like any opinion you read, you shouldn't take it as 100% gospel.
> 
> I disagree with "pro" reviewers all the time. I still can't hear any noticeable difference between different DACs, amps, or cables unless a DAC is actually passing audible *noise* through, an amp is underpowered for the load, or a cable is cut in half. People claiming to hear huge differences make me think one of us is nuts, and I hope it's not me, but I really don't know. (I assume it's me. At least I can save a ton of money.)
> 
> Those are pretty big disagreements, but I still read and consider as many informed opinions as I can find when making a buying decision. You're doing yourself a disservice if you rule someone out completely because you disagree with a few of their opinions.




Going against the grain for the sake of provocating or exaggerating things doesn't put much credibility into the reviewer although it probably helps with page views .

As for dac not affectibg the output, or very little, it's all about what little improvement means a lot to some (and various degrees of placebo probably but the result is the same). In any case, best for you is to run away while you're still sane as the unfortunate thing I discovered is that truly excellent sources still cost a lot of money today (but again good deals abound more than ever and that´s probably your point).

Arnaud

Ps: too bad you're giving up on the 009 but on the other end, it certainly isn't a transducer much accodmodating with failures upstream.


----------



## timkk

steve2151 said:


> For a darker sounding dac, I've heard and liked the Neko D100 and the Audio-GD SA-1, with the Neko being somewhat warmer sounding in my opinion. Both are great single ended options and should work well with the SRM-T1 (the Neko dac has a balanced variant as well).
> 
> The sound signature of your dac is one of those personal love-it or hate-it things. Given a minimum level of technical proficiency, most dacs can be said to have some merit.


 
 Thx. I'll look into them. 
 Guys, what about lifespan of those headphones? I've searched through threads and it looks like you can still find SR-1 (The first stax's electrostat headphone fromn 1960) in working condition so I'm assuming 50 years+ and they're still alive... although not too many of them. So probably around 50 years for a stax headphone? That leaves me with about +-20 years of life for those headphones...


----------



## complin

Well I veer this direction myself and hate the glare you sometimes get from digital recordings. Often its not the DAC that the problem but over-produced compressed recordings more suitable for car radios and low quality ipod/earbuds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 First thing would be to get your T1 checked out to make sure its up to snuff as its possible some of the components may be past their sell by date by now. You can also experiment with some tube rolling if you want a slightly brighter or more euphonic sound. Personally I prefer the original Stax Gold Aero valves for the T1 but they are very difficult to obtain these days, so a good Japanese produced one (Toshiba, Matsu****a etc) are good alternatives as they are near to the original voicing of the amplifier. If you want to try something brighter then the RCA clear tops. Personally I wouldn't just replace the tubes for the sake of it as some service engineers fell obliged too. If they are still in spec and you like the sound then stick with them.
 Personally I don't find the Stax bright unless the recording has hot treble and is that way inclined. The Stax have such extended treble in comparison to what else is out there some people interpret this as bright.
  
 On the DAC front I would listen to some NOS DAC's first, like the Metrum and AudioNote. The battery based DAC's from John Kenny JKDAC32 and Ciúnas are well worth a listen.
 Try comparing these to some of the over/up samplers like the Benchmak, Arcam, Renaissance etc whch might give you a hint as to which direction you want to go in. Often its not necessarily the DAC chip that has a specific sound but how its been implemented, output stage, jitter reduction, quality of USB implementation. So its usually the sum of the parts which make for a good or less good sound IMO.
  
   
 Quote:


timkk said:


> I bought SRM-T1 to help with stax's slight brightness (at least that's what was written in some of the reviews). I prefer a little warm side of things.


----------



## complin

Yep  by and large most stuff is very long lived, but obviously you need to treat it with respect when its vintage
 I still have lots of Stax fully functional headphones 20, 30 or more years old, Its just the plastic is more brittle and the earpad foam deteriorates, but most of its fixable either from spares or cannibalizing a broken one. Thats not to say drivers don't fail at this age they do, but you will find a lot of working vintage Stax around compared to other manufacturers. 
  
 Quote:


timkk said:


> Thx. I'll look into them.
> Guys, what about lifespan of those headphones? I've searched through threads and it looks like you can still find SR-1 (The first stax's electrostat headphone fromn 1960) in working condition so I'm assuming 50 years+ and they're still alive... although not too many of them. So probably around 50 years for a stax headphone? That leaves me with about +-20 years of life for those headphones...


----------



## astrostar59

Hi Timkk



> I'm new to this forum so please don't kill me if I'm asking stupid questions. There is huge amount of information in here and it's pretty hard to go through all of it, though, I'm trying. So anyway I've bought STAX lambda Signature with SRM-T1 energiser. I also bought Stax lambda pros but that's another story . Are there any mod's that improve sound and can be easily done? Also, I was also trying to search through head-fi.org in order to find out what DAC to buy. As of now I'm connecting SRM-T1 into laptop's headphone jack. Will I hear a lot of improvement with dedicated DAC? If so, what's recommended DAC for it? I could't find anything in the forums.
> Thx guys for any hel


p.

First, congrats on entering the weird and wonderful world of Stax headphones (Ear Speakers).

1. Buy a decent budget DAC like a Musical Fidelity - great quality for low money:
http://www.musicalfidelity.com/v90-dac/

Yes the headphone out is a disaster buddy. Once you get streaming USB data to your new DAC you will be AMAZED trust me.
Your T1 will work fine from the RCA out of the DAC.

2. DACs do make a significant difference so the SQ. I know many will say not. But I have tried 20 or more DACs over the years, and some are good, others horrid. 
The thing to test a DAC is the quality of the treble. Many can sound processed and 'hifi' not real. I prefer none oversampling but that is another subject.

3. Make sure you use Audirvana+ or similar on your Laptop. iTunes is a step back on its own. And optimise your Laptop by closing apps and turning of WiFi when 
using it for tunes. If it has 2 meg of RAM and enough room for Flac or WAV/AIFF files cool. Avoid Mp3s as they sound rough compared to full resolution CD files.

4. Ripp your Cds with XLD (free app.).

5. Mods on the headphones, not really. buy new earpads, that's about it. If they work leave them alone.

I think that covers the basics. I hope this helps you. There is shed loads of info on this forum, but it can get overwhelming.
Bottom line is, you can get a great for for not much money. Yes, you can spend 10K on the 009s and fancy amps, but the Lamda Novas
(I had 2 for years) can bring lots of musical pleasure. I like to look at the Stax sound as a sophisticated sound, not bass monsters or V shaped
happy response. They are very detailed, transparent and fast. The caveit of that, as even with good dynamics, is you need a good base system
to enjoy them. I think you can get that on a small budget if you are careful what you buy.

http://files.head-fi.org/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


----------



## eric65

Hi, Arnaud,
  
 In Japan, what do you prefer: the apple or the orange? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178182802.html#p178182802


----------



## rgs9200m

Here of some photos of my installation with biasing of RCA cleartops in my 007t/ii for my SR009. I got astonishing results. 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/415385/tube-change-biasing-a-stax-006t-ii/30#post_10708955


----------



## timkk

Thx for the suggestions. Unfortunately, I don't know how to do necessary checks of my T1 . TBH, it's all new to me. Have you got this amp yourself?
  
 Quote:


complin said:


> Well I veer this direction myself and hate the glare you sometimes get from digital recordings. Often its not the DAC that the problem but over-produced compressed recordings more suitable for car radios and low quality ipod/earbuds
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## timkk

Hi astrostar59
 yeah before I made a jump into Stax's world I was reading about it for quite a bit . Thx for all the tips as well. Regarding DAC's. I'm gonna try V90 for sure. Also I've read DAC Magic plus is similarly good as well as Audinst MX2.... but I'm really curious about NAD D 3020/1050 DAC as ppl say it crushes the other ones....A lot of testing ahead ).
  
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> Hi Timkk
> p.
> 
> First, congrats on entering the weird and wonderful world of Stax headphones (Ear Speakers).
> ...


----------



## 3X0

Any advice for long-term storage?

I'm probably not going to be using my SR-Omega for quite a while, so my concerns are functional integrity and preservation of the parts. They'll be in the original paulownia box.

So far I can only think of ensuring the pins are shorted out before storage (to prevent long-term parasitic charges) and some desiccant in the box.

I want to make sure the foam and pads don't deteriorate either. Not sure why this is so common on the Sigma and some Lambdas but it's my understanding that the Omega is less susceptible to passive disintegration.


----------



## gepardcv

3x0 said:


> Any advice for long-term storage?



I'll gladly take one for the team and “store” them for you! I promise the Omegas will be well fed and get plenty of exercise.


----------



## kothganesh

gepardcv said:


> I'll gladly take one for the team and “store” them for you! I promise the Omegas will be well fed and get plenty of exercise.




Part of which will be loaning to your best buddies that will of course baby the Omegas. Only 3 hour listening sessions ( at a time)


----------



## complin

Yes I have a T1 in my collection and its one of my favorite Stax tube amps. Not that much different from current production but much cheaper to buy.
 You will find instructions on this and another forum of how to install and bias the tubes. It would be worth getting an experienced engineer or DIY contact to check out those components which deteriorate with age like capacitors to see if they should be replaced. This happens with all vintage audio equipment as the components were never designed to last 20 plus years. 
  
 Quote:


timkk said:


>


----------



## rgs9200m

I hope you fine the Lambda Novas comfortable. There was like no room for my ears when I got mine new in 1998. They did sound nice though with the T1W amp.
 In some ways, I liked them better than the SR007/007t combo I got a year or so later. The Lambda was more, well, immediate sounding.


----------



## timkk

Guys, what DAC would be better then NAD D 1050 (500$ range) which has been getting all the rave recently?? Since I've got STAX system I don't really need AMP that's integrated with NAD D 1050. I'd think you can get better bang for the buck with just a standalone DAC. Although, I need XLRs for my active speakers...any suggestions ?? My budget is around 500$. Don't really want to spend more on a DAC.


----------



## rgs9200m

I like my Meridian Director in that sort-of price range. Even the Dragonfly is not bad and great for the price.


----------



## timkk

rgs9200m said:


> I like my Meridian Director in that sort-of price range. Even the Dragonfly is not bad and great for the price.


 
 no XLR in the Meridian I think


----------



## rgs9200m

timkk said:


> no XLR in the Meridian I think


 
 true. you could get an xlr to rca cable, but that's not balanced of course.


----------



## timkk

complin said:


> On the DAC front I would listen to some NOS DAC's first, like the Metrum and AudioNote. The battery based DAC's from John Kenny JKDAC32 and Ciúnas are well worth a listen.
> Try comparing these to some of the over/up samplers like the Benchmak, Arcam, Renaissance etc whch might give you a hint as to which direction you want to go in. Often its not necessarily the DAC chip that has a specific sound but how its been implemented, output stage, jitter reduction, quality of USB implementation. So its usually the sum of the parts which make for a good or less good sound IMO.


 
 Geeez, finding a proper DAC now sounds really time-consuming... Shouldn't I just pick the most flat DAC out there? I see you're from Oxford, maybe a small meet-up one day ?
 I'm tempted to get NAD D 1050 for now and then compare it to different ones. Although, I'm a little bit afraid it's not flat since I couldn't find any scientific graphs yet....


----------



## davidsh

timkk said:


> Geeez, finding a proper DAC now sounds really time-consuming... Shouldn't I just pick the most flat DAC out there? I see you're from Oxford, maybe a small meet-up one day ?
> I'm tempted to get NAD D 1050 for now and then compare it to different ones. Although, I'm a little bit afraid it's not flat since I couldn't find any scientific graphs yet....


 
 I think you should find a DAC that measures good. Personally, I think one can know whether equipment is transparent throught measurements. Many don't think so.


----------



## complin

Didn't realize you were in the UK as you have no location posted
 Not sure by what you are meaning by getting a "Flat DAC" ?
 If you want something quickly you can dispose of later I would go for a well regarded second hand unit first as its better value. That will give you plenty of time to find something you really like
  
 Quote:


timkk said:


> Geeez, finding a proper DAC now sounds really time-consuming... Shouldn't I just pick the most flat DAC out there? I see you're from Oxford, maybe a small meet-up one day ?
> I'm tempted to get NAD D 1050 for now and then compare it to different ones. Although, I'm a little bit afraid it's not flat since I couldn't find any scientific graphs yet....


----------



## complin

Personally I think you have this the wrong way around. I go for something that sounds good and then look at the measurements to see what issues there may be
 I have heard such a lot of equipment that measures really well but does not turn out to sound good in the long term. The problem is we really don't know what makes audio equipment sound great, so we are obviously measuring the wrong things or the right ones but in the wrong way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


davidsh said:


> I think you should find a DAC that measures good. Personally, I think one can know whether equipment is transparent throught measurements. Many don't think so.


----------



## davidsh

I'd prefer not to 'tune' the transducers with components that introduce artifacts. I prefer my amp and DAC neutral and transparent, regardless of whether it seems to sound bad. I have EQ for tuning.


----------



## complin

All components introduce artifacts, measurements are only a guide
 Its not a matter of tuning but having something which is pleasing to listen to. I've had DACs which measure really well which are positively painful to listen too after an hour or so. bright, dry and artificial
  
 Quote:


davidsh said:


> I'd prefer not to 'tune' the transducers with components that introduce artifacts. I prefer my amp and DAC neutral and transparent, regardless of whether it seems to sound bad. I have EQ for tuning.


----------



## negura

davidsh said:


> I'd prefer not to 'tune' the transducers with components that introduce artifacts. I prefer my amp and DAC neutral and transparent, regardless of whether it seems to sound bad. I have EQ for tuning.


 
  
 I think I get where you are coming from. I also prefer my sound as neutral and transparent as possible, hence the SR-009s. During my time with the HD800s and other components, I also occasionally had the EQ on duty.
  
 From generally reading opinions of others, I was at first slightly worried before I purchased my 009s. It could have not been a more different experience than expected. In fact on this system which is: 009s/KGSSHV/PWD2 I never once could relate to any listening fatigue or anything untowards with the 009s. I rate the sound as very neutral and transparent, yet musical and very engaging. Even my 007s took a back seat and I am listening to the 009s for hours and hours on end, when family life allows.


----------



## davidsh

I guess this is a case of 'agree to disagree'

All I can say is if it measures below the threshold of our ability to hear, what comes in comes out, input = output, and that's what I personally want.


----------



## rgs9200m

Well, somebody likes the 007t/ii - SR009 combo as much as I do...
 http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/stax-sr-009-srm-007tii-kimik/?utm_campaign=Hi-Fi%2B+Weekly+Emails&utm_medium=email&page=2&utm_source=email-268


----------



## n3rdling

Again, until you hear them with better amps.


----------



## Crashem

davidsh said:


> I'd prefer not to 'tune' the transducers with components that introduce artifacts. I prefer my amp and DAC neutral and transparent, regardless of whether it seems to sound bad. I have EQ for tuning.




Dacs are tricky to determine if they are neutral as you have no analog signal to compare against. The measurements typically taken mean less with a dac for a couple of reasons. One, the differences between dacs against these common measurements such as thd etc. are pretty insignificant. Second, the dac is doing something very different than other pieces of equipment. One of the reason ess chips has taken over the market is that measurement wise it is amazing. The problem is how do measurements capture coloration the digital to analog process will create? I like to use the analogy of language translation when it comes to dacs. You can go for a word for word literal translation (ie measurements) but you often run into scenarios where the literal word for word translation can't convey the actual meaning or even worse, gives you the wrong impression. There is subtly and skill to convey it correctly when you have to go off script and it will be colored by your understanding and view of the original manuscript.


----------



## negura

davidsh said:


> I guess this is a case of 'agree to disagree'
> 
> All I can say is if it measures below the threshold of our ability to hear, what comes in comes out, input = output, and that's what I personally want.


 
  
 All I am saying is that there may be other components upstream of the SR-009s that do not sound to your liking. I've been in this situation myself, with other headphones/systems.


----------



## timkk

Yeah, I'm in the UK, east Lodnon. I can drive to Oxford . I took a gamble and ordered NAD D 1050 from amazon. I think I have 30 days to send it back if I don't like it. By a flat DAC I mean one that doesn't change signal at all. 
 Quote:


complin said:


> Didn't realize you were in the UK as you have no location posted
> Not sure by what you are meaning by getting a "Flat DAC" ?
> If you want something quickly you can dispose of later I would go for a well regarded second hand unit first as its better value. That will give you plenty of time to find something you really like


----------



## timkk

crashem said:


> Dacs are tricky to determine if they are neutral as you have no analog signal to compare against. The measurements typically taken mean less with a dac for a couple of reasons. One, the differences between dacs against these common measurements such as thd etc. are pretty insignificant. Second, the dac is doing something very different than other pieces of equipment. One of the reason ess chips has taken over the market is that measurement wise it is amazing. The problem is how do measurements capture coloration the digital to analog process will create? I like to use the analogy of language translation when it comes to dacs. You can go for a word for word literal translation (ie measurements) but you often run into scenarios where the literal word for word translation can't convey the actual meaning or even worse, gives you the wrong impression. There is subtly and skill to convey it correctly when you have to go off script and it will be colored by your understanding and view of the original manuscript.


 
 Interesting point. I've just bought NAD D 1050 and found a topic that FIRMWARE change, changes how it sounds... What? Doesn't it mean that manufacturers EQ their dacs through firmware and hardware used is of less importance to how DAC sounds??
  
 Impressions from one the guys who has changed the firmware:
 "I installed the original firmware kindly provided by Frenchwah and hear an immediate, gross, difference.  It's a totally different piece of equipment.  It's like going from Grados to Sennheiser's.  I'm trying hard to wipe the smile off my face now actually.  Now this is the thick, viscous, buttery maple syrup that I have been searching for. "
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/713161/nad-d1050-dac-and-headphone-amplifier/15


----------



## complin

Yep that's the situation
 Many who have the Perfect wave DAC have several versions of firmware they can use and they all sound slightly different!
 Many modern DAC;s use field gate arrays which basically do a lot of the processing (conversion from the digital to analogue domain). So there is a lot of preprocessing before it gets to the actual DAC chip. There is all sorts of other stuff going on in there like filters, up-sampling of the signal stream (or not). The results of all this has to be reassembled into an analogue signal to feed into your amplifier so it should be no surprise that if you change one of the elements its going to sound slightly different.
 There has been a debate raging for years about all this and each designer has their own preference for signal conversion. Personally I prefer the absolute minimum processing as IMO the ear is very sensitive to changes in this domain, particularly timing. Even the best implementation introduces slight errors due to rounding and calculations etc. To be honest I really don't think yet we understand what's going on here, so we can measure all we like but in the end its how it actually sounds as a finished product with a first class recording.
  
 Quote:


timkk said:


> Interesting point. I've just bought NAD D 1050 and found a topic that FIRMWARE change, changes how it sounds... What? Doesn't it mean that manufacturers EQ their dacs through firmware and hardware used is of less importance to how DAC sounds??
> 
> Impressions from one the guys who has changed the firmware:
> "I installed the original firmware kindly provided by Frenchwah and hear an immediate, gross, difference.  It's a totally different piece of equipment.  It's like going from Grados to Sennheiser's.  I'm trying hard to wipe the smile off my face now actually.  Now this is the thick, viscous, buttery maple syrup that I have been searching for. "
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/713161/nad-d1050-dac-and-headphone-amplifier/15


----------



## rgs9200m

One of the BHSE/SR009 owners here uses a Hugo. I love my Hugo.


----------



## astrostar59

IMO try and listen to a None oversampling DAC. I like the get back to the original approach. I works for me, and to my ears
sounds more real. All the filters, apodizing filtering, over sampling, EQ tweaking, this or that, software messin, it smears the sound.
It all sound impressive for 2 tracks then I loose interest, sorry.

I listened to a TAS 200K system at a recent hifi show, and it was like that, wow, detail, wow quite dynamic. But it was very synthetic,
I walked off and went back to the Audio Note room, and the 20K tube system, sounded marvelous to my ears.

Here is a basic explanation. I think it gets behind the manufacturers glossy brochures and fancy casework

http://ankaudiokitsblog.com/?p=44

Shoot me if you like. But get a demo on a None Oversampling DAC (preferably with tubes in), then come back here and tell us how it was for you.


----------



## 3X0

Interesting, because NOS DACs introduce aliasing and intermodulation products (sometimes into audible range).

My DAC has a NOS filter switch but I generally leave it disengaged. I initially believed it subjectively more pleasing with my HD 800 but I'll have to re-evaluate as it might be "smearing" the sound more than the non-aliasing mode (due to the aforementioned intermodulation and aliasing products).


----------



## negura

astrostar59 said:


> IMO try and listen to a None oversampling DAC. I like the get back to the original approach. I works for me, and to my ears
> sounds more real. All the filters, apodizing filtering, over sampling, EQ tweaking, this or that, software messin, it smears the sound.
> It all sound impressive for 2 tracks then I loose interest, sorry.
> 
> ...


 
  
 How does one of these compare with say the MSB Analog? I realize it's a long shot question.


----------



## astrostar59

Hi Negura
First, we are in the same club! I got my KGSShv from Geoff 2 weeks back, a compact like yours
but at 10 amps. It sounds great and I am very happy. A huge jump on my 717 Stax amp, and I think
pretty close to the BHSE. I am doing an A/B in 2 weeks to check that out.

On the MSB Analogue, as I understand it, it is R-2R with multiple chips per channel. I guess it needs that
as R-2R do the conversion bit for bit, and to handle 192 or higher resolution need more chips. The MSB is None Oversampling
and no filter so yes, should sound close to the best NOS DACs. It would be great to compare it to a top Audio Note DAC like
the DAC 5.

The MSB is sky high money, and I think you can get as good for much less, unless you really need all the high res and filter options.

Birgir has one, so you could ask him, if he ha heard other DACs and other NOS DACs to compare it.


----------



## negura

astrostar59 said:


> Hi Negura
> First, we are in the same club! I got my KGSShv from Geoff 2 weeks back, a compact like yours
> but at 10 amps. It sounds great and I am very happy. A huge jump on my 717 Stax amp, and I think
> pretty close to the BHSE. I am doing an A/B in 2 weeks to check that out.
> ...


 
  
 Yeah - the KGSSHV sounds really great. My 14mA has been BBQ-ing all day.  Look forward hearing how you found the KGSSHV compared to the BHSE.
 At the moment I am very pleased with the PWD2 especially with the PUC2 interface, but there will come a time to upgrade it... My next DAC will likely be a ladder DAC, not sure which one yet though!


----------



## astrostar59

3x0 said:


> Interesting, because NOS DACs introduce aliasing and intermodulation products (sometimes into audible range).
> 
> My DAC has a NOS filter switch but I generally leave it disengaged. I initially believed it subjectively more pleasing with my HD 800 but I'll have to re-evaluate as it might be "smearing" the sound more than the non-aliasing mode (due to the aforementioned intermodulation and aliasing products).




Unless your DAC is R-2R ladder DAC type it would then be Delta-Sigma which by very nature cannot do None oversampling to start with, regardless what effect or filter it says it has, sorry.

NOS DACs do not suffer from the artifacts you claim, it is all B+++S+++ from the Delta-Sigma industry. If you don't believe, use your ears, don't believe the hype.....


----------



## astrostar59

Hi Negura
On NOS DACs it depends what you want SS or with tubes. Most NOS DACs have tubes like Audio Note, Lampizator, Wavelength Audio. The MSB is SS but big money. Then there is Metrum Acoustics who have the Octave II for 800 euros with USB, or the Hex for about 2,300 euros with USB. Both those sounds fabulous. I have an Octave II to lug around, and an Audio Note 4.1 at home with various upgraded parts and New Old Stock tubes. Having tubes is great, as you get superb vocals and realism which I think digital audio needs, and can try different tubes to system synergy your rig. 

Yes, I am loving my Geoff built KGSShv, it is solid, great bass and soundstage to sit inside, sweet treble and nice midrange. It is almost tube sounding as in smooth and organic, not solid state sounding at all IMO. It only gets about 15°C above room temp. It is a great DIY, better casework than factory gear.

you got any internal photos? Here one of mine



Keep in touch.


----------



## Hun7er

astrostar59 did you compare Lampizator and Audio Note Dac ?


----------



## David1961

I'm listening to my 009 / BHSE right now Julian, and yes it's Rammstien.
With what I'm hearing from that combo source being the K-01, I'm really looking forward to hearing your KGSSHV with my BHSE.


----------



## astrostar59

david1961 said:


> I'm listening to my 009 / BHSE right now Julian, and yes it's Rammstien.
> With what I'm hearing from that combo source being the K-01, I'm really looking forward to hearing your KGSSHV with my BHSE.




Hey, patiance my friend. Until then, eat this!

[VIDEO]http://youtu.be/f4K6ZxDwi34[/VIDEO]


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## astrostar59

Well in for a penny, lets get fat!

[VIDEO]http://youtu.be/Y1st6O1tqII[/VIDEO]


----------



## David1961

Very good, now how about some Du Hast and *****.


----------



## negura

astrostar59 said:


> you got any internal photos? Here one of mine


 
  
 It looks very similar to yours inside. I found a pic from Geoff himself, as I haven't opened my KGSSHV yet. For all I know it could have sand and dirty laundry inside. 
 But it sounds pretty darn good. It's as you say: very organic and smooth, punchy, but detailed and transparent. Like a big juice class A SS speaker amplifier.
  
 What was more surprising to me is that as much as the SR-007 MKIs scaled with it, which was expected, I wasn't prepared for how the SR-009s perform with it. The latter sound so good, my 007s are getting next to no head time...


----------



## AnakChan

Astrostar59/Negura, could you take a couple of pix of your Stax next to your KGSSHv so that I can get a sense of scale, please?

I'm particularly interested in how compact Geoff has made his builds including his newer square block design.


----------



## themad

Anak, I don't know if you already have the dimensions, but this is what I got about the Cube last time I checked:
The Cube measures 240 W x250 D x180 H, (9.5”W x 10”D x 7”H) plus a 10mm front panel of 242 x 182. It has turned aluminium feet of app 23 dia and 22 H.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

A few misconceptions flying around in here. The MSB dacs are not non-oversampling dacs, they use their own proprietary MSB oversampling. 

R-2R are not he only style of multibit dac chips on the market, there are others that are also multibit "PCM native" style chips. 

Yes, msb dacs are solid state, but I'm pretty sure they use OP amps not discrete parts. This is mostly just for informational purpose, cause implementation is everything.

Yes, non oversampling dacs do have the artifacts mentioned above, regardless of whether you think they sound better(which is fine) you can't deny that the artifacts are there, it's science and can be measured.


----------



## 3X0

astrostar59 said:


> Unless your DAC is R-2R ladder DAC type it would then be Delta-Sigma which by very nature cannot do None oversampling to start with, regardless what effect or filter it says it has, sorry.


 
 Yup, you're right in that regard -- the defeatable NOS switches as used in the PWD and some Peachtree Audio products aren't truly NOS due to the nature of the chip. But conversely, the article you posted earlier is misleading as modern R2R DACs still have a reconstruction filter external of the chip (delta-sigma DACs have this built-in). Since reconstruction filters of NOS DACs is not standardized by any means, the engineer is at liberty to do all kinds of questionable reconstruction filtering to the signal at his/her whim. Some (many?) NOS DACs might be regarded as sound _processors_ rather than bona fide DACs. Exaggerated smoothing in the high-frequency domain with a generous low-pass filter may not be so uncommon.
  
 And even when there is no explicit digital/analog filter for reconstruction, the NOS DAC/processor will accomplish this by some means of implementation -- this makes the effect on the signal relatively unpredictable.
  
 The artifacts of NOS DACs are measurable and repeatable even from (in)famous publications like Stereophile. The classic NOS DAC trades in errors of the timing domain (i.e. jitter) for a higher noise floor and some distortion products. I have found more evidence to suggest sensitivity to such artifacts than evidence supporting sensitivity to nominal levels of jitter.


----------



## mechgamer123

I had the chance to hear two pairs of original SR-Lambdas tonight...
 Set 1: In good working condition driven connected to a really expensive setup (I forgot the exact model of the DAC, but the speaker amp was a  Final Audio Music 6 preamp/speaker amp powered by batteries) through some speaker transformer (not the SRD-7) and I didn't like them as much. The definitely had very accentuated upper treble that made the soundstage feel bigger, but also made anything other than prefect recordings sound too bright and harsh.
 The second pair are in far worse shape, the foam is falling apart around the driver, the pads are pretty much toast (and on backwards to boot) and the connectors look like they've been jimmy rigged to keep a connection - they'll randomly quit making sound when I move my head, and they're driven by the SRD-7, which the owner of both sets says sounds worse than the other amp. But for some reason this set isn't anywhere near as bright as the other set, its tonality is much better, although the midrange may be more recessed, I'd need more listening to figure that part out. They do sound cleaner and more refined than my SR-202 though, which I find surprising given their condition...


----------



## complin

Actually many of the top R2R ladder DAC's don't use a conventional DAC chip at all but are built with discrete components i.e. the TOTALDAC from France
  
 I believe Headfier Hun7er has or had one of these?


----------



## astrostar59

3x0 said:


> Yup, you're right in that regard -- the defeatable NOS switches as used in the PWD and some Peachtree Audio products aren't truly NOS due to the nature of the chip. But conversely, the article you posted earlier is misleading as modern R2R DACs still have a reconstruction filter external of the chip (delta-sigma DACs have this built-in). Since reconstruction filters of NOS DACs is not standardized by any means, the engineer is at liberty to do all kinds of questionable reconstruction filtering to the signal at his/her whim. Some (many?) NOS DACs might be regarded as sound _processors_ rather than bona fide DACs. Exaggerated smoothing in the high-frequency domain with a generous low-pass filter may not be so uncommon.
> 
> And even when there is no explicit digital/analog filter for reconstruction, the NOS DAC/processor will accomplish this by some means of implementation -- this makes the effect on the signal relatively unpredictable.
> 
> The artifacts of NOS DACs are measurable and repeatable even from (in)famous publications like Stereophile. The classic NOS DAC trades in errors of the timing domain (i.e. jitter) for a higher noise floor and some distortion products. I have found more evidence to suggest sensitivity to such artifacts than evidence supporting sensitivity to nominal levels of jitter.




I find this all very odd. Measured noise floor on the Metrum Hex is 113DB, how much do you want?

As for filter after the chip, the conversion from digital to analogue is bit for bit conversion. The key difference with Delta-Sigma is they are upsampling then converting. To my ears
this is where it gets smeared and the treble takes on a very obvious hifi or digital quality. Try a good NOS DAC with RedBook (with no brick wall filter) in your system, then come back and restart this discussion. Or just stick to your magazines instead.


----------



## milosz

Did some ask for DAC recommendations for their Stax?
  
 There are some low cost DACs out there that you might like.  You can buy a used one and try it, maybe buy another lower-cost used DAC and compare them, etc.  to get a feel for what - if any- differences you find between them.  Maybe later, buy a fancy expensive one.
  
 I suggest trying the original Musical Fidelity V-DAC. * http://www.stereophile.com/content/musical-fidelity-v-dac-da-processor-measurements*  I have one and to me it sounds a trifle "sweet" or kind of "tube-like."  This may be a projection or aural imagination on my part, I have not done any A/B comparisons with this DAC.  But it measures pretty well and quite a few people have enjoyed using it.  I like mine.
  
 Cambridge DAC MAGIC is also another good budget DAC you can get used for not much money.  And there are any number of good DAC / DAC-Dynamic Headphone Amp / DAC-Preamp   units from* Audio-Gd* that are very well made and offer good sound with excellent value. Audio-Gd  DACs come in two sigma-delta flavors:  ES9018  and WM8741, and one R2R flavor - PCM1704UK.  Sigma-delta and R2R are two kinds of DAC technologies, or digital-to-analog conversion technologies, with ES9018, WM8741 and PCM1704UK being the specific DAC chips used.  Each have their strengths.
  
*HOWEVER*  if you are listening to garden-variety MP3 files as your music source, all the finesse that a better DAC can offer is going to be wasted.  MP3 files -  or low bitrate AAC or WMA files-  are *NOT* high-fidelity audio. An MP3 with a 240 KHz or higher bitrate can sound OK depending on the music, but bitrates lower than 240 KHz tend to be kind of crappy; not bad for background music but not worth spending $hundreds on electrostatic 'phones to listen to.
  
 You are much better off with LOSSLESS FILES - an actual CD, or FLAC, ALAC, OR WMA LOSSLESS. Some people even go so far as to say that HIGHER RESOLUTION files- like 24-bit/96 KHz files as can be purchased from *HDTRACKS.COM* or *PONO MUSIC* are SO MUCH BETTER THAN CD that they hardly bother listening to lower-res music any more. (I've done some A/B/X tests with high res files using myself and also some pro musicians as test subjects and we couldn't tell the difference, so personally I am not convinced that going beyond Red Book standards really makes an audible difference, but your mileage may vary)


----------



## Lonely_Rider

When I was choosing a new DAC about four years ago, one I listened was Red Wine Audio Isabellina NOS DAC. Well, I didn't liked it at all: sound was murky, and there was grainy distortion in high frequencies. My choise was Electrocompaniet ECD-1. Maybe NOS DAC's are better today, than four years ago, I don't know.
  
Those, who fear "digital sound" (like we all), I recommend to listen Lynx Hilo. I was sceptical about DAC's made for professional use, but not anymore.


----------



## James-uk

milosz said:


> Did some ask for DAC recommendations for their Stax?
> 
> There are some low cost DACs out there that you might like.  You can buy a used one and try it, maybe buy another lower-cost used DAC and compare them, etc.  to get a feel for what - if any- differences you find between them.  Maybe later, buy a fancy expensive one.
> 
> ...




Agree mostly but 256 AAC and 320 orbis are transparent on 99.9% of recordings and nobody yet has proven otherwise. I used to laugh when people steamed and used apple downloads then I decided to educate myself and test it for myself. As to the dac recommendations you can't go wrong with an ODAC if USB is all you need. Also just wanted to say I'm currently in a position where I have reached end game with dynamics so I'm going to buy some stats in the near future . Great thread, I'm learning alot , thank you all.


----------



## 3X0

astrostar59 said:


> Measured noise floor on the Metrum Hex is 113DB, how much do you want?
> 
> As for filter after the chip, the conversion from digital to analogue is bit for bit conversion. The key difference with Delta-Sigma is they are upsampling then converting. To my ears
> this is where it gets smeared and the treble takes on a very obvious hifi or digital quality.




Actually the effective noise floor of the Hex is somewhere between -100 and -90 dB but this is still mostly good enough for Redbook and our ears. I suspect you quoted the effective SnR of the core DAC in the circuit, while the fully implemented device as a whole behaves differently.

The quantization errors produced by oversampling DACs is very low in level and pushed well above the Nyquist frequency. The analog filtrations designed into some NOS DACs perform necessarily worse as it doesn't have as much room to work with, introducing the aforementioned artifacts into the audible exist.

I suspect your upstream decisions might be influenced by the quality of the recordings. Especially when mixed for speaker playback, mastering can wind up a bit hot in the treble.

@complin I am even more skeptical of such fully discrete DACs unless the manufacturer has the resources to properly control effective performance. Lack of standardisation and risk for "creative" (i. e. fidelity-destroying) decisions shouldn't be something that one voluntarily pays a premium for. I have concerns against such DACs being considered "top" if their performance is not properly validated. Topology adulation shouldn't be reasonable justification.


----------



## negura

anakchan said:


> Astrostar59/Negura, could you take a couple of pix of your Stax next to your KGSSHv so that I can get a sense of scale, please?
> 
> I'm particularly interested in how compact Geoff has made his builds including his newer square block design.


----------



## astrostar59

lonely_rider said:


> When I was choosing a new DAC about four years ago, one I listened was Red Wine Audio Isabellina NOS DAC. Well, I didn't liked it at all: sound was murky, and there was grainy distortion in high frequencies. My choise was Electrocompaniet ECD-1. Maybe NOS DAC's are better today, than four years ago, I don't know.
> 
> Those, who fear "digital sound" (like we all), I recommend to listen Lynx Hilo. I was sceptical about DAC's made for professional use, but not anymore.




No wonder, that Red Wine DAC looks to have one of the most basic power supplies and output amp I have ever seen. That is NOT where most NOS DACs are at.

Does this look better as regards implementation?


----------



## realmassy

To be honest one of the biggest difference between my two DACs (Metrum Hex and Ayre QB-9 DSD) is the background, which is TOTALLY black on the Ayre and 'grey' (relatively speaking) on the Metrum. They both have great qualities, but with the QB-9 instruments really pop out of the black. This helps a lot with instrument separation which are more solid and easy to pinpoint. The Hex has different abilities, but to my ears is no better than the QB-9.


----------



## Michgelsen

This feeling that instruments pop out of the black I have found to be caused by good dynamics, so this can mean that the Ayre has better dynamics than the Hex. This in turn MIGHT be due to a better power supply.


----------



## astrostar59

3x0 said:


> Actually the effective noise floor of the Hex is somewhere between -100 and -90 dB but this is still mostly good enough for Redbook and our ears. I suspect you quoted the effective SnR of the core DAC in the circuit, while the fully implemented device as a whole behaves differently.
> 
> The quantization errors produced by oversampling DACs is very low in level and pushed well above the Nyquist frequency. The analog filtrations designed into some NOS DACs perform necessarily worse as it doesn't have as much room to work with, introducing the aforementioned artifacts into the audible exist.
> 
> ...




I have 2 DACs, the Metrum Acoustics and the Audio Note 4.1, and BOTH have no filter, it has been removed from the chip. I have heard the 4.1 with and without the filter, and I can assure you, it sounds a lot better without it. I have horn speakers and Stax 009s, and no, nothing has blown up as some say it will.

The filter kills the decay and ambience in the music, and the oversampling smears the sound and creates a digital treble.

My taste may not be like everyone, I want organic music, as though my DAC could be a good turntable rig (as I owned before I went digital). At this level with the 009s or a top flight speaker setup, the treble quality is everything.


----------



## astrostar59

negura said:


>




Hey Negura, that looks real nice. Your KGSShv compact looks a lot smaller
than the Perfect Wave DAC. I will post some photos next week of mine. We decided for speed of build reasons
to do the heatsinks in Silver. It looks great in either black or silver IMO.

I am using mine with a Metrum Octave II so RCA/XLR convertor plugs. Thus the volume is about 12.oclock most
of the time. With XLR is is about 9 oclock.

It sounded great from first use as Geoff had run it for 60 hours (no music). It did lift a bit after a few days, more transparent
and even smoother treble. The bass power with the 009s in incredible, I was shocked. And the extra detail (or brightness as some
call it with the 009s is not an issue with the KGSShv. 

I think Geoff does a great build. I also believe not all KGSShv's sound the same, it is the same design as either an off-board
or on-board type, but the quality of the transformer (and the over spec size of it) plus the resistor types and the capacitor quality
all affect the final SQ IMO. Audio Note have been doing the same amp designs for years, but put better and better parts in that design 
and call it levels. I have heard my 300B Monoblocks at level 3 (my amps) and at level 5, and it is not subtle.

The casework is also nice. One thing Geoff got right IMO is also the mounting of the 8 power regulators (think that's what they are).
They are glued and screwed onto a solid 25 mm square section bar that is bolted to the inside of the heat sinks. It gets rid of all that heat.


----------



## paradoxper

Joining the HV party.


----------



## negura

astrostar59 said:


>


 
  
 I agree they all do not sound the same. I posted my impressions in another thread here and I think it's to do with component selection. If it was possible I would definitely be up for experimenting some more. But even if it were possible I have to consider right now I am really enjoying it and it would not be good to wish to go back to this version.
  
 Regarding Geoff's build, I agree. It's rock solid. I didn't go for the very pretty stuff as mister posting above, but I think it was all the better for Geoff  too.


----------



## complin

Well the TOTL MSB and TOTAL DAC's I believe use this approach and they have been very well received by the High-fidelity chattering classes
 One thing I have learned in my 45 years listening to audio equipment is that measurements are only a guide and the best measuring instruments are located on either side of your head!  
 Quote:


3x0 said:


> @complin I am even more skeptical of such fully discrete DACs unless the manufacturer has the resources to properly control effective performance. Lack of standardisation and risk for "creative" (i. e. fidelity-destroying) decisions shouldn't be something that one voluntarily pays a premium for. I have concerns against such DACs being considered "top" if their performance is not properly validated. Topology adulation shouldn't be reasonable justification.


----------



## 3X0

astrostar59 said:


> My taste may not be like everyone, I want organic music, as though my DAC could be a good turntable rig (as I owned before I went digital). At this level with the 009s or a top flight speaker setup, the treble quality is everything.


 
 Reasonably stated. The transformer-coupling topology of the Audio Note DACs likely act as a filter surrogate though (don't they allege this themselves?).
  
 Given the differences in recording fidelity (from the microphones to the ADC to the master and beyond), I don't believe the pursuit of venue fidelity (e.g. emulating the real-life sound of the material) suits me personally. I listen to a wide variety of genres with substandard to exemplary master quality, and I am not prepared to handle the variables that preceded playback on my system. I am comfortable being true to the recording rather than creating a facsimile of reality and this is simply a difference in philosophy.
  
 This could be crudely represented in the idea that I would rather things sound brutally as-they-were than sound good.


complin said:


>


 
 Indeed; some of the best-sounding electronics perform the worst when eviscerated by measurement electronics. I'm personally with @davidsh in chasing recording fidelity rather than seeking euphony or venue fidelity. If recording techniques were standardized (e.g. there was one recording label/engineer that produced all music, or at least I listened to those covered by the umbrella of solely one), I would be more inclined to seek real-life sound.


----------



## yawg

davidsh said:


> I guess this is a case of 'agree to disagree'
> 
> All I can say is if it measures below the threshold of our ability to hear, what comes in comes out, input = output, and that's what I personally want.


 

 Here we go again. There is no "threshold" of our hearing. Some people hear the fleas cough ...
  
 I have a high-end sound correction device that measures an "inaudible" 0.004 percent distortion. But in defeat-mode I get a much more transparent and natural soundscape. Only our ears can tell us what's good and "works". All the rest is theoretical BS and not relevant.
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## headinclouds

paradoxper said:


> Joining the HV party.


 
  
Will you put that thing away!
  
 (Edit.  it is nice to see Cory's amp again)


----------



## 3X0

How gratifying it must feel to discredit decades of research and developed knowledge on the topic of hearing with a few fallacies of inductive reasoning.
  
 I find it amusing that subjective anecdotal experience (prone to all forms of cognitive and confirmation biases) might be sufficient to dismiss a wealth of evidence suggesting contrariwise as "BS", at least for some people.


----------



## bearFNF

I may be out of line here, but *I think* the point is that measurements can get you close, but it is your personal preference and taste that really matters. Just my opinion. Assuming you know what measurement specs align with your preferences, that is.


----------



## astrostar59

3x0 said:


> Reasonably stated. The transformer-coupling topology of the Audio Note DACs likely act as a filter surrogate though (don't they allege this themselves?).
> 
> Given the differences in recording fidelity (from the microphones to the ADC to the master and beyond), I don't believe the pursuit of venue fidelity (e.g. emulating the real-life sound of the material) suits me personally. I listen to a wide variety of genres with substandard to exemplary master quality, and I am not prepared to handle the variables that preceded playback on my system. I am comfortable being true to the recording rather than creating a facsimile of reality and this is simply a difference in philosophy.
> 
> ...




Dude, stop reading scientific journals, bit quoting and using thesaurus. Just get hold of a good NOS DAC and see for yourself! Enjoying music is not complicated, it is what you hear, and what you feel. The latter, like falling in love cannot be measured......It is really sad, but I was so suckered by all the oversampling BS, I spent thousands of hard earned wad, and was NOT happy, not in love with my music at all. Then, I dumped the brochures, and used my ears ha ha, it is great and it is free.


----------



## astrostar59

headinclouds said:


> Will you put that thing away!




Damb, I want to flash mine now! How cool would it be if we could have a KGSShv big meet with all of Geoff's amps in a row!


----------



## realmassy

More pictures, more pictures!!


----------



## complin

Real life sound ? Well I suggest you watch this http://www.head-fi.org/t/661545/rmaf-2012-just-how-absolute-is-recorded-sound 
  
 Quote:


3x0 said:


> .
> Indeed; some of the best-sounding electronics perform the worst when eviscerated by measurement electronics. I'm personally with @davidsh in chasing recording fidelity rather than seeking euphony or venue fidelity. If recording techniques were standardized (e.g. there was one recording label/engineer that produced all music, or at least I listened to those covered by the umbrella of solely one), I would be more inclined to seek real-life sound.


----------



## 3X0

complin said:


>


 
 Indeed. It's incredibly exhausting to back out of what's been done at the recording-level (especially since different records and even tracks might be subject to different approaches) and it's an experiment I don't have the patience for. I would agree that recordings are oft crude facsimiles of reality and I'm okay with that.



astrostar59 said:


> Dude, stop reading scientific journals, bit quoting and using thesaurus. Just get hold of a good NOS DAC and see for yourself! Enjoying music is not complicated, it is what you hear, and what you feel. The latter, like falling in love cannot be measured......It is really sad, but I was so suckered by all the oversampling BS, I spent thousands of hard earned wad, and was NOT happy, not in love with my music at all. Then, I dumped the brochures, and used my ears ha ha, it is great and it is free.


 
 Oh, relax. You must know that I respect your opinion and approach. I have a different philosophy that might be considered less artistic and more pessimistic (e.g. I feel that trying to a piano or saxophone to sound like real-life would be an exercise in futility [especially if the same piano/sax ends up sounding different on a different recording]).
  
 In my experience I've found bona fide NOS and/or tube sound (separately and together) to be pleasing in their own right. It's not the route I've chosen personally because it doesn't always give me what I want when I switch gears (e.g. from acoustic jazz to gangsta rap). But I love my Sabre DAC feeding my solid state 323S into the Omega; it's a very bang-for-the-buck setup that my ears consider free of apparent flaws regardless of the genre I select.
  
 I just don't buy into the credos that x DAC design/topology is superior to y DAC design/topology, and I don't understand the "anti-objectivist" mentality either (I'm not an objectivist).


----------



## paradoxper

headinclouds said:


> Will you put that thing away!


 
 You're right. I got a little too wild. I think we all like showing off for you, Geoff. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 (Edit. I'll keep future viewings private. I know you like your material risque.)


----------



## gilency

3x0 said:


> How gratifying it must feel to discredit decades of research and developed knowledge on the topic of hearing with a few fallacies of inductive reasoning.
> 
> I find it amusing that subjective anecdotal experience (prone to all forms of cognitive and confirmation biases) might be sufficient to dismiss a wealth of evidence suggesting contrariwise as "BS", at least for some people.


 
 You could not convince people reading horoscopes they are not real.
 Don't bother trying to explain facts to people who don't believe on them.
 I agree with you.


----------



## kothganesh

paradoxper said:


> Joining the HV party.


 
 Oh God, this is a killer combo. I'm taking the next flight out to Albuquerque


----------



## headinclouds

kothganesh said:


> Oh God, this is a killer combo. I'm taking the next flight out to Albuquerque


 
  
 Hot dog, jumping frog Albuquerque?


----------



## kothganesh

headinclouds said:


> Hot dog, jumping frog Albuquerque?


 
 Yep pardner!


----------



## Currawong

This is the Stax thread.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Edited, too much info about it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## troymadison

Better or worse than a Woo Wee?


----------



## martin778

Guys, how to spot a real, factory built and not modified Stax Lamda Nova Signature? I see different versions, one says Lamda Nova on the headband and "Signature" on top of the earcup:
  

  
 The other one looks like this:


----------



## eric65

troymadison said:


> Better or worse than a Woo Wee?


 
  
 With an OTL amp (AudioValve RKV-II), better than a Woo Wee (with 1:50 transformers) and also better than a Stax SRM 727 amp.
  
 http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178189569.html#p178189569


----------



## nemomec

martin778 said:


> Guys, how to spot a real, factory built and not modified Stax Lamda Nova Signature? I see different versions, one says Lamda Nova on the headband and "Signature" on top of the earcup:
> 
> 
> 
> The other one looks like this:


 
  
  
 Here are a original Lambda Nova Signature:


----------



## martin778

Thanks for the pics! Makes me wonder why so many people advertise Lambda's that are on the 1st pic I posted as Lambda Nova Signature...


----------



## complin

Theses are not modified just repaired. Given the age of the LNS the headband get brittle and breaks in the middle usually. The only option is to replace it with another Lambda headband at the original one marked LNS is no longer available as a spare part.  So long as the ear capsules have signature in red they are LNS. However there is no way of knowing without checking the drivers if they have been replaced too.
 There is also the later signatures which I think from memory have gold lettering.


----------



## martin778

Do both the Lambda Signature and LNS utilize drivers with gold coloured outer rings?


----------



## John Buchanan

martin778 said:


> Do both the Lambda Signature and LNS utilize drivers with gold coloured outer rings?


 
 No.


----------



## nemomec

martin778 said:


> Do both the Lambda Signature and LNS utilize drivers with gold coloured outer rings?


 

 No only the Lambda Nova Signature and the Lambda Nova Classic has a gold coloured outer ring. The Lambda Signature driver looks normaly outside like the Lambda Professional driver with white cotton dust protector, later versions have a black ring with transparent film dust protector.


----------



## martyn73

Hi,
  
 I'm thinking of getting either an SRM-323S or SRM-727II to pair with my SR-404 headphones. In the future I hope to get a pair of SR-007 MK2 and wonder if the SRM-323S will provide enough power. The SRM-727II produce 450vrms but having read through as many posts and reviews I could find I'm not sure which of these two amplifiers produces the best overall sound quality with the SR-404s and has the potential to adequately power the more demanding SR-007 MK2s. I've upgraded recently from Basic System II.
  
 Thanks in advance for any comments.
  
 Kind regards,
  
  
 Mart


----------



## realmassy

I persinally prefer tubes with the 404 (or any Lambda), the 006 makes a very pair imho.


----------



## martyn73

realmassy said:


> I persinally prefer tubes with the 404 (or any Lambda), the 006 makes a very pair imho.


 
  
 I've got the 006T but it doesn't self-bias so tube rolling is not for me. I tried the SR-407 with a SRM-323S and noticed harshness in the mid-range, especially with female vocalists. The SRM-323S I used was an imported version running at 230v instead of 240v so the sound quality may have been affected. The SR-404s are noticeably smoother and much more comfortable to wear than the SR-407s to the extent that the SR-404s will be my last Lambdas before upgrading to SR-007MK2 in a year or two.


----------



## realmassy

I see. Biasing the amp should not be a major issue, I have no DIY skills AT ALL but I did it on the 007t 

As for the 404-407 comparison, the 404 are nice but to my ears are tonally unbalanced, they completely lack the lower octaves. Nice midrange, good for vocals or small ensamble, but not right for orchestral music for example. Had the chance to listen to them again recently and I still have the same idea.
The 507 (which I owned and should be fairly similar to the 407) have a deep and punchy bass instead, but most of the people seem to complain about their brightness.
Obviously this is only my opinion.


----------



## timkk

realmassy said:


> I see. Biasing the amp should not be a major issue, I have no DIY skills AT ALL but I did it on the 007t


 
 Weren't you scared of an electric shock? I'm still afraid of doing it myself with my T1...


----------



## martyn73

realmassy said:


> I see. Biasing the amp should not be a major issue, I have no DIY skills AT ALL but I did it on the 007t
> 
> As for the 404-407 comparison, the 404 are nice but to my ears are tonally unbalanced, they completely lack the lower octaves. Nice midrange, good for vocals or small ensamble, but not right for orchestral music for example. Had the chance to listen to them again recently and I still have the same idea.
> The 507 (which I owned and should be fairly similar to the 407) have a deep and punchy bass instead, but most of the people seem to complain about their brightness.
> Obviously this is only my opinion.


 
 I think Stax is reacting to the trend for brighter headphones. The SR-407 headphones had an undesirable harshness for certain tracks and the clamping pressure was a lot higher than my old SR-202s. Nevertheless, the Sennheiser HD-700s have a terrible treble peak. I would have thought most Stax headphones could cope with orchestral music.


----------



## davidsh

The lambdas are mostly decent with orchestral, varies a bit from model to model, but generally they lack in soundstage and just do some other types of music better, like chamber music.


----------



## dukeskd

Lambda Signature and Lambda Normal are amazing with orchestral music, IMO, FWIW, YMMV, OFC.


----------



## kothganesh

dukeskd said:


> Lambda Signature and Lambda Normal are amazing with orchestral music, IMO, FWIW, YMMV, OFC.


 
 One of these days, the usual disclaimers are going to be longer than our opinions


----------



## davidsh

Can't speak for lamba NB but LS lacks in soundstage IMO. Else it sounds very good, great air.


----------



## realmassy

Very different opinion  I think the soundstage is good but they simply lack the impact of the double basses and cellos...the tonal balance is clearly 'on the left' where we usually have violins. Try to listen the start of Mahler's second


----------



## davidsh

Imaging is great but soundstage size is rather small and I have a hard time getting past the sensation that I have drivers next to my ears.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Entry level / budget PC set-up :

 SR-009 and BHSE included. Indeed.
  
 Ali


----------



## troymadison

Is the sigma worth getting? Which one is the best to look for?


----------



## davidsh

troymadison said:


> Is the sigma worth getting? Which one is the best to look for?



For the price it tends to cost, I'm not sure. Pro sigma or even better 404 sigma. Normal bias sigma is also fine I suppose. I have that one. Anyway the sigma is pretty coloured, be aware of that


----------



## ZarakiSan

I unfortunately have to sell my SR-407. They have some (rather worn) leather pads from the 404LE/507 and are in really good condition otherwise.
  
 What do you guys think they're worth? I looked around and couldn't find a single example of a price listing for a pair.


----------



## complin

So do you have personal experience of using both the Sigma Pro and normal bias Sigma?
  
 Quote:


davidsh said:


> For the price it tends to cost, I'm not sure. Pro sigma or even better 404 sigma. Normal bias sigma is also fine I suppose. I have that one. Anyway the sigma is pretty coloured, be aware of that


----------



## 3X0

Don't some brofessionals allege that the LNB and SNB sound better than their Pro bias counterparts?


----------



## John Buchanan

3x0 said:


> Don't some brofessionals allege that the LNB and SNB sound better than their Pro bias counterparts?


 
 They might do, but certainly the Sigma Normal Bias doesn't sound as good as the Sigma Pro or the Sigma/404 (the SNB is far too rolled off in the treble and boomy in the bass end). Never heard a Lambda normal bias


----------



## davidsh

complin said:


> davidsh said:
> 
> 
> > For the price it tends to cost, I'm not sure. Pro sigma or even better 404 sigma. Normal bias sigma is also fine I suppose. I have that one. Anyway the sigma is pretty coloured, be aware of that



No, just parroting what I hear


----------



## complin

I really wish people would refrain from this !
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This is how the internet myths and legends get started. Fine so long as you say it's what you have hard from others, but out of context it gives the impression its from your own personal experience. Just one of those things I really get hung up about 
 Its just like the party game where you line up a dozen people and you whisper a phrase at one end but when it gets to the end of the line its morphed into something different.
 Rant over.
  
 Yes John Buchan is quite correct when he says the SNB is rolled off in the treble as are the majority of normal bias stax.  However it does make for smooth and relaxed listening, if you are not looking for that last degree of treble sparkle. I would not call them colored though, just not as extended as we are used to these days. You need to take into account these were produced almost 40 years ago. 
 I have found both the SNB/SPro quite inefficient and they do seem to need an amp with some oomph to perform their best. The SNB can have boomy bass, but if paired with a decent amp with good control this seems to be reduced greatly. I have no experience of the S404 so cant comment, but from what I remember John had a pair converted. Indeed I believe he wrote a very articulate review the Sigma's on one of the forums, perhaps here or elsewhere?
  
 Quote:


davidsh said:


> No, just parroting what I hear


----------



## 3X0

Can we attribute lack of bass control to any particular deficiencies of the amplifier (e.g. slew rate, although this is just as an example and obviously wouldn't be involved)?
  
 Not trying to be argumentative, just genuinely curious. I hear tubby bass being a complaint against lesser amplifiers for certain earspeakers but I'm not aware of why this would be the case versus other units.


----------



## complin

I would say one particular deficiency IMO that leads to flabby bass is a poor power supply. I know this sounds a bit ludicrous as we are dealing with miniscule amounts of output watts compared to loudspeakers, but a decent power supply, preferably regulated does seem to make a real difference.
 I would also guess how good a grip the amplifier has on the headphones too as in loudspeakers will also have a an influence. However there is a lot going on here and as they are stats not quite the same as dynamics or speaker cones! In speakers it would be damping factor on impedance that might have a bearing but there is also room related stuff going on which isn't relevant to headphones 
 Perhaps Tyll of Kevin Gilmore have some theories about this aspect bass control. 
  
 Quote:


3x0 said:


> Can we attribute lack of bass control to any particular deficiencies of the amplifier (e.g. slew rate, although this is just as an example and obviously wouldn't be involved)?
> 
> Not trying to be argumentative, just genuinely curious. I hear tubby bass being a complaint against lesser amplifiers for certain earspeakers but I'm not aware of why this would be the case versus other units.


----------



## GPzephyr

Hi all.
 'Tis funny you know. I haven't been on this site for ages but was inspired to do so while I'm sitting here listening to Led Zep II through my hodge podge of a system. Boy do these Stax Sigmas NB sound great.
 Not perfect by a long shot with limited frequency ends but hey not all of us can hear 25kHz. For sheer enjoyment I choose these over My HD600 and listening fatigue is much reduced.
  
 By the way for those who might be curious, the rest is a Garrard 401 front into a Modded Quad 44 driving the Stax via a SRD7sb and Pioneer A400 no less.
  
 Question- Would a SRM-006T be a worthy purchase to replace the SRD7sb setup?
  
 Hey ho, Time to Ramble on
  
 Chris


----------



## Sahara

Hi all:
  
 I,ve purchased a brand new Stax 4070. I,ve been looking for minumum for a couple years ago. I thought I'd find them but never a new sealed pair. Im triying to look for the measurements ( FR graph etc) but I can not see them.
  
 Could someone help me with 4070 measurements, posting images or links pls?
  
 Thank you
  
 Cheers


----------



## loligagger

Here, saved this a while back.


----------



## Sahara

Thanks!!!
  
 I bought them last week and havent received yet...
  
 Is not the treble a little bit hot?


----------



## loligagger

That's the raw response, so it won't look like most other (compensated) frequency response charts.


----------



## edstrelow

troymadison said:


> Is the sigma worth getting? Which one is the best to look for?


 
 I think the Sigma pro and Sigma/404 are up with the best of current top Stax phones.  As far as the low bias model, here is my take from a few years ago.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/464873/stax-sigmas-compared-low-bias-sigma-pro-and-sigma-404


----------



## nemomec

troymadison said:


> Is the sigma worth getting? Which one is the best to look for?


 
  
 In my opinion the Sigma Pro is one of the best Stax models and i prefer it on a modifided SRA-12S sometimes over a SR-007/KGSS combo. The Sigma NB is also very good with a wonderful midrange and for aggressive rock/metal maybe the best choice.


----------



## schorsch

Listening time in my case

60% Sigma with ED1 Signature und T1
25% Lambda Pro with SRM-Monitor
15% 007 Mk2 with Pawel HP-1 different amps

Regards Georg


----------



## timkk

Hi guys,
 I noticed there is a buzz when I turn volume up past 5.5 mark in my SRM-T1. At 10 it's quite noticeable. Is it normal?
 Also, I noticed distortion at really loud volumes sometimes. For example in one of my test songs @ 00:41 onwards ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8WY03aUsHc ). Not sure if it's the headphone's problem or the amp's. What do you guys think?


----------



## astrostar59

timkk said:


> Hi guys,
> I noticed there is a buzz when I turn volume up past 5.5 mark in my SRM-T1. At 10 it's quite noticeable. Is it normal?
> Also, I noticed distortion at really loud volumes sometimes. For example in one of my test songs @ 00:41 onwards ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8WY03aUsHc ). Not sure if it's the headphone's problem or the amp's. What do you guys think?




I would look at the tubes first. More gain will show up problems wirh aging tubes. Also check the bias, and clean rhe tube pins and sockets. 

If the tubes are quite new, it could be a ttansformer related issue, or a dirty volume pot. Or old capacitors. The anp is well over 10years old so might be due a recap. I would PM Spritzer for more detailed tech help.


----------



## edstrelow

nemomec said:


> In my opinion the Sigma Pro is one of the best Stax models and i prefer it on a modifided SRA-12S sometimes over a SR-007/KGSS combo. The Sigma NB is also very good with a wonderful midrange and for aggressive rock/metal maybe the best choice.


 
  
  


schorsch said:


> Listening time in my case
> 
> 60% Sigma with ED1 Signature und T1
> 25% Lambda Pro with SRM-Monitor
> ...


 

 Just finished listening to Frank Sinatra at the Sands on a low bias Sigma with the somewhat cheesy SRDX ( the transformer/amp that plugs into a conventional headphone jack.)  Sounded great!  I like the SRA12 but mine unfortunately is in need of repair.


----------



## schorsch

Just listened to my Sigma normal upgraded to PRO with SR 007 Cable in the SRA 12S.

Phantastic with female voices.

Regards Georg


----------



## edstrelow

schorsch said:


> Just listened to my Sigma normal upgraded to PRO with SR 007 Cable in the SRA 12S.
> 
> Phantastic with female voices.
> 
> Regards Georg


 
 Have you raised the bias on the SRA12S?


----------



## schorsch

edstrelow said:


> Have you raised the bias on the SRA12S?


 

 Dear edelstrow,
  
 yes it was raised to PRO by the former stax distributor (Germany) during an general overhaul.
  
 I like this amp very much.
  
 Regards Georg


----------



## blackads

Just wanted to say a THANK-YOU to Spritzer for the mod he suggested back in 2010 for the feedback loop on the stax 727 
  
 I bought a 727A and set of 009s from price japan a couple of weeks ago and have used them in stock form until today when Id had enough - I found the bottom end truly lacking and the overall sound to be uninspiring and weirdly without foundation, even at high volume.  Ive previously heard a set of 009s thru the 007tii and thats what convinced me to get my own pair, the unmodded 727 does not IMO measure up to the stock 007tii, and Ive spent the last week hoping Id made the right amp choice and that the mod was going to be the fix it needed.
  
 Today I bit the bullet and did the mod, it was very easy, the boards just lift out and theres plenty of space to work,  I managed to use the existing 150k resistors by simply unsoldering and lifting one end and soldering the lifted end of the resistor to some cut off resistor lead which I then soldered  to connect to the board edge contacts.   
  
 I did the right channel only first so could directly compare with the unmodified left side, there is a huge difference in bass presence and impact with the mod.  Both channels are now modified and the amp IMO sounds like it should for its price..
  
 So again, thanks Spritzer...


----------



## astrostar59

> Just wanted to say a THANK-YOU to Spritzer for the mod he suggested back in 2010 for the feedback loop on the stax 727




I second that. I didn't know which Stax amp to buy and Birgir told me to get a 717, which is still very good and running fine. The modded 727 is the same as a 717 soundwise.

It makes me wonder why Stax do things like this in the first place. I know plenty of Stax owners who bought a Stax amp with the phones, and got fed up with the amp.

You know, if you wanted to go another step, you could get a DIY KGSShv or buy a Woo or BHSE if you like tubes. The jump from the 717/727 is not subtle.


----------



## kothganesh

astrostar59 said:


> I second that. I didn't know which Stax amp to buy and Birgir told me to get a 717, which is still very good and running fine. The modded 727 is the same as a 717 soundwise.
> 
> It makes me wonder why Stax do things like this in the first place. I know plenty of Stax owners who bought a Stax amp with the phones, and got fed up with the amp.
> 
> You know, if you wanted to go another step, you could get a DIY KGSShv or buy a Woo or BHSE if you like tubes. The jump from the 717/727 is not subtle.


 
 +1. I have a 717 which sounds very good with the 007. I also got the KGSShv (by that master Geoff Clarke 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) and the jump is noticeable.


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## David1961

If it hadn't been for the SRM-007t I once had in which I got that amp along with the SR-007mk1, I'd have probably still had the 007mk1's.
 I felt that amp made the 007's sound veiled with not much energy.
 I've since heard the 007mk1's with my BHSE and that amp turned them into completely different sounding Earspeakers.
 Regarding Stax amps, I've only heard two with both the 007mk1's and 009's, those two stax amps were the SRM-007t and 717, and with both those Earspeakers I found the 717 sounded the better of the two Stax amps.


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## astrostar59

The 717 or modded 727 sounds harsh compared to the KGSShv. It also sounds thin and a bit lifeless,
and synthetic / clinical. I have both here and use them side by side. The 717 is my 'portable' amp, so I will keep it.

The KGSShv sounds real, warmer, wider sound stage, massively bigger head room (goes very loud with no sign of clipping or compression)
and the bass is in another league. It has incredible control over the 009 drivers, an iron fist.
It is a different world in my view, not subtle. It makes me wonder why Stax still don't have an amp to show off their top headphones
in their range, it seems insane. Demoing to the masses with Stax amps, it's tragic. Leaving it to the DIY community and small niche companies 
to make amps that match the quality of their headphones instead. No wonder so many go of and buy dynamics or planar systems!

Today I am testing it against David's BHSE, so should be fun. 

I don't imagine it will beat the BHSE, rather from memory at different locations, it will be a different signature,
possibly not as transparent and maybe not have the tube magic in the midrange. If it gets to 90% close
I will be very happy.

Watch this space.


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## kothganesh

astrostar59 said:


> The 717 or modded 727 sounds harsh compared to the KGSShv. It also sounds thin and a bit lifeless,
> and synthetic / clinical. I have both here and use them side by side. The 717 is my 'portable' amp, so I will keep it.
> 
> The KGSShv sounds real, warmer, wider sound stage, massively bigger head room (goes very loud with no sign of clipping or compression)
> ...


 
 Yes, please do post on your findings vis-a-vis the BHSE. If its 90% close (or better), I will not pull the trigger on the BHSE. Further, the wait is reportedly 12 months


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## David1961

With the K-01 being used, I've a feeling the difference between my BHSE and Julian's KGSSHV might be quite close. I believe my iPod might be the better of my two sources to use even though ( IMO ) it's no match to my K-01.

When doing this comparison, obviously my XLR and RCA interconnects will be used, ( from using the K-01 only ) so we'll be using both interconnects with both amps.


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## eric65

kothganesh said:


> Yes, please do post on your findings vis-a-vis the BHSE. If its 90% close (or better), I will not pull the trigger on the BHSE. Further, the wait is reportedly 12 months


 
  
 And me, I would wait only 15 days to get the all-new AudioValve Verto box http://www.head-fi.org/t/727630/audiovalve-rkv-ii-otl-amp-2014-version-audiovalve-box-adapter-verto-for-stax-headphone-and-for-low-impedance-orthodynamic-eletrodynamic-headphone#post_10756994 , which coupled to the AudioValve RKV-II (OTL) amplifier and the headphones Stax SR-009 (that I already own), that would do better than all the amplifiers Stax currently in production (including SRM 727 and SRM 007t2) if one believes the first trials and listens in France. 
 http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/verto-le-boitier-audiovalve-pour-casques-stax-t30052030.html
 I would affirm you soon.


----------



## paradoxper

I would affirm you're full of schiit.


----------



## wink

+ 1000


----------



## blubliss

+ a billion


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## mulveling

I used to own an RKV Mk II and it was a really nice sounding amp, but it wasn't reference quality even with an HD650 (e.g. a Headamp Gilmore Reference or GS-X Mk 2 will beat it no problem). So the idea of it competing with the Gilmore electrostat designs on the MUCH MORE RESOLVING SR-009, with a freaking transformer box sandwiched in the middle no less, sounds very very funny to me.


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## eric65

mulveling said:


> I used to own an RKV Mk II and it was a really nice sounding amp, but it wasn't reference quality even with an HD650 (e.g. a Headamp Gilmore Reference or GS-X Mk 2 will beat it no problem). So the idea of it competing with the Gilmore electrostat designs on the MUCH MORE RESOLVING SR-009, with a freaking transformer box sandwiched in the middle no less, sounds very very funny to me.


 
  
 The have you tried? (the Verto box + RKV-II amp + Stax SR-009)
  
 Personally, I would have the chance to do so within 15 days.
  
 We'll talk about when you'll have the same experience as mine.
  
 Kind regards.


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## davidsh

Will probably have plenty of headroom, though..


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## eric65

eric65 said:


> And me, I would wait only 15 days to get the all-new AudioValve Verto box http://www.head-fi.org/t/727630/audiovalve-rkv-ii-otl-amp-2014-version-audiovalve-box-adapter-verto-for-stax-headphone-and-for-low-impedance-orthodynamic-eletrodynamic-headphone#post_10756994 , which coupled to the AudioValve RKV-II (OTL) amplifier and the headphones Stax SR-009 (that I already own), that would do better than all the amplifiers Stax currently in production (including SRM 727 and SRM 007t2) if one believes the first trials and listens in France.
> http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/verto-le-boitier-audiovalve-pour-casques-stax-t30052030.html
> I would affirm you soon.


 
  
 Quote:


mulveling said:


> I used to own an RKV Mk II and it was a really nice sounding amp, but it wasn't reference quality even with an HD650 (e.g. a Headamp Gilmore Reference or GS-X Mk 2 will beat it no problem). So the idea of it competing with the Gilmore electrostat designs on the MUCH MORE RESOLVING SR-009, with a freaking transformer box sandwiched in the middle no less, sounds very very funny to me.


 
  
 You have misread my previous post.
  
 In this post, I did not put in competition the new combo AudioValve RKV-Verto with the productions (of quality) of electrostatic amplifiers made by Gilmore, but only with amps Stax currently in production (SRM 252 to the SRM 007t2) which according to firsts listening carried out in France, _and no offense to all those who have not yet listened to,_ would be, in terms of the sound quality, below the combo in question.
  
 My only reference at the Gilmore productions, concerning the command time significantly shorter for AudioValve productions (a few weeks instead of several months).
 But the industrial means, perhaps, are not the same?


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## eric65

Otherwise, what you have not understood, is the mode of operation of the tubes of the amplifier RKV II (or III in OTL mode).
  
 To continue the example from the HD 650, the load seen by the amplifier is equal to 300 Ohm (that's the impedance of the headphones HD 650).
  
 With electrostatic headphones Stax SR-009 (very high impedance: 145000 Ohm) with multiplier voltage transformer (with very low ratio only 1:5) (low distortion), the impedance seen by the amplifier RKV will be included in a range (wide) ranging from 2000 to 6000 Ohm (depending on frequency). 

 However, you should know that that PCL805 tubes of RKV excellent for use mainly in tension (voltage), with an optimal charge of approximately 4000 Ohm (the one originally scheduled to operate these tubes in the cathode-ray TV).
  
 To summarize, we can say that the RKV-II (or III in OTL mode) will be better with headphones Stax SR-009 (via the Verto box and  its transformers of low ratio amplification of voltage : only 1:5) rather than with the HD 650 headphone (regardless of the quality of the headphones) simply, for a matter of impedance matching.
  
 (NB : If you fear not to translate the french language in english, I give you a far more details link on this issue of adaptation of impedance of the tubes of the RKV : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178200031.html#p178200031 )


----------



## kevin gilmore

so I did a careful and complete synthesis of the RKVII driving a lundahl LL9202
 transformer wired as 6.625:1 which is as close as I can get to the 5:1 with
 the best spice models for the tubes and full specifications from lundahl.
 This is what I got
  
http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/rkv.jpg
  
 top box green is frequency response, red is phase
  
 bottom box red is input square wave 1khz, green is output
  
 so if your hearing extends to only about 6khz you are going to be fine.
  
 The build time and price of a BHSE is irrevelant.
 A great many have built their own BH. A few have even built something similar to the BHSE.
 A fair number have built megatrons (about 8) and T2's (more than 40).
  
 All of which will seriously exceed the performance of  a poorly designed high impedance futterman design driving
 what is likely to be a very poorly made cheap transformer in a box designed with multiple
 windings to drive all sorts of stuff.


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## MacedonianHero

astrostar59 said:


> I second that. I didn't know which Stax amp to buy and Birgir told me to get a 717, which is still very good and running fine. The modded 727 is the same as a 717 soundwise.
> 
> It makes me wonder why Stax do things like this in the first place. I know plenty of Stax owners who bought a Stax amp with the phones, and got fed up with the amp.
> 
> You know, if you wanted to go another step, you could get a DIY KGSShv or buy a Woo or BHSE if you like tubes. The jump from the 717/727 is not subtle.


 
 Doesn't the 727II have more power/voltage than the 717 too? Agreed that the unmodded SRM727II isn't anything to write home about.


----------



## eric65

kevin gilmore said:


> so I did a careful and complete synthesis of the RKVII driving a lundahl LL9202
> transformer wired as 6.625:1 which is as close as I can get to the 5:1 with
> the best spice models for the tubes and full specifications from lundahl.
> This is what I got
> ...


 
  
 Hello Kevin,
  
 Thank you for your very interesting theoretical study of the RKV-II amp, and its frequency response (with a Stax electrostatic headphones), using a 1:6 ratio transformers (if I understand correctly).
  
 There is just a small problem concerning this study; I can't yet speak of listening (already made by Pierre Paya) of the RKV-Verto combo (with its transformers 1:5), that I will soon receive, but the combo RKV-Wee (with its 1:50 transformers); much worse in theory than transformers 1:5 of the Verto; and well, I don't have the impression of having heard a loss of 16 dB at 10 KHz with this combo when listening to a sinus signal at 10 KHz (from a CD test), nor even in our comparison of amps (we were 4 testers) directed in September 2013 where the RKV-Wee gave rather good results compared with Stax SRM 727 and especially the Stax SRM 007t2.
  
 Mystery! (between theory and practice) 





  
  
 PS: my hearing is correct (aged 48) up to 12.5 KHz.
  
 PS bis: I don't doubt the quality of your products.
  
Well cordially
  
 Eric
  
  
*Edit* : Here my measurement readings (to the microphone in free field) of the *RKV II-Wee combo* (with Wee transformers 1:50) with the *Stax SR-009 headphones at different frequencies *(500 Hz; 1 kHz; 2 kHz; 5 kHz and 10 KHz) for a 0.20 Volt RMS signal at 1 KHz (frequency control) (Wee input = RKV output) with the same position of the potentiometer of RKV for measurements:
  
(Stax SR 009 : signal *500 Hz*  = *75,2 dB SPL* (free field))

  
(Stax SR 009 : signal à *1 KHz* (frequency control)) (Wee input = 0.20 Volts rms) =* 72,5 dB SPL* (free field))

  
(Stax SR 009 : signal *2 KHz*  =* 74,4 dB SPL* (free field))

  
(Stax SR 009 : signal *5 KHz* = *72,4 dB SPL* (free field))

  
(Stax SR 009 : signal* 10 KHz* = *78,7 dB SPL* free field))

  
Conclusion : *Not significant roll-of at 10 KHz* (relative to the frequency control 1 KHz) with the *combo RKV-Wee + Stax 009.*
  
  
Also: other data interesting to read (comparative amp and headphones: steps to the microphone)
  
 A: comparison of headphones* 009 / 007 mk2 *on the *combo RKV-Wee *(NB: same position of the potentiometer on the RKV: input 0.20 Volts rms at 1 kHz = 73 dBA SPL on the 009)
 (averaged for 009 on RKV - WEE) free-field measurements :
  
500 Hz : 73,2 dBA / 70,8 dBA
1 KHz : 73,0 dBA / 71,0 dBA
2 KHz : 75,0 dBA / 69,5 dBA
5 KHz : 71,5 dBA / 70,2 dBA
10 KHz : 76,5 dBA / 73,0 dBA
12.5 KHz : 62,0 dBA / 64,5 dBA
  
 B: comparison of  *009 headphones* with amps *RKV-WEE / SRM 727 / SRM 007t2* (NB: level benchmark standard for amplifiers: 73 dBA SPL at 1 kHz with the 009)
 free-field measurements :
  
500 Hz : 73,2 dBA / 73,0 dBA / 73,3 dBA
1 KHz : 73,0 dBA / 73,0 dBA / 73,0 dBA
2 KHz : 75,0 dBA / 75,0 dBA / 75,5 dBA
5 KHz : 71,5 dBA / 67,7 dBA / 68,2 dBA
10 KHz : 76,5 dBA / 69,9 dBA / 71,0 dBA
12.5 KHz : 62,0 dBA / 56,0 dBA / 61,0 dBA
  
Conclusion : *significant roll-of **at 12.5 KHz* (relative to the frequency control 1 KHz) with the *three amplifiers* *RKV-WEE / SRM 727 / SRM 007t2* *+ Stax 009*.


----------



## chengka7

Damn, so wanna find someone to build me a dynahi or BHSE, but Corey is not taking order this year, and still have difficulties finding a skilled builder....


----------



## David1961

Because Julian is better at describing SQ than I am, my findings are only going to be short from hearing Julian's KGSSHV and my BHSE. 
Using his and my 009's with the source being my k-01, I found the KGSSHV had a stronger bass which listening to Rammstien sounded very impressive, however from the BHSE everything sounded so life like ( well as close to life like I've heard from a headphone combo ) 
So from the two amps I preferred the BHSE but I was still very impressed with the KGSSHV, so much so I'll definitely be getting one when I've the spare money.
I was also very impressed with the build quality and looks of Julian's KGSSHV, I would've preferred it with a silver faceplate and everything else matt black, but I can ask for that when I'm ready to get one.

With the BHSE we only used the PH tubes but because Julian's KGSSHV only has XLR sockets, we were only able to use my silver XLR's with his amp and my copper RCA's with my BHSE. 
When I use my BHSE I mostly use my silver cable XLR interconnects ( that's only since I started using the PH tubes ) because I find they give me more detail and transparency, so whether using the silver XLR's with KGSSHV and copper RCA's with the BHSE brought the amps closer together, I can't say, but Julian did try my BHSE with both interconnects and he said he couldn't hear any difference.
All in all though Julian's KGSSHV ( IMO ) is a very impressive amp, and for what it cost him is worth every penny or dime.


----------



## James-uk

What would you guys recommend for a budget 'starter ' stax rig?


----------



## davidsh

james-uk said:


> What would you guys recommend for a budget 'starter ' stax rig?



207 and srm323. I have no first hand experience with Said equipment, though


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## milosz

kevin gilmore said:


> so I did a careful and complete synthesis of the RKVII driving a lundahl LL9202
> transformer wired as 6.625:1 which is as close as I can get to the 5:1 with
> the best spice models for the tubes and full specifications from lundahl.
> This is what I got
> ...


 
 40 DIY T2's?  Wow.  And mine's still not done!  
  
 You know, I'm tired of waiting for it to finish building itself- maybe I should intervene.


----------



## milosz

james-uk said:


> What would you guys recommend for a budget 'starter ' stax rig?


 
 Hahaha  Koss ESP-950's.   Best electrostatic sound you can get for ~$750  all in.  (ESP-950's include an amp.)
  
 Not Stax, though- excellent sound, but different from Stax.
  
 Stax on a budget, I'd look for a used T1 with a pair of Lambdas of some kind.  Some folks like the old low-bias Lambdas, others like the high-bias Lambda Pro's. I have a pair of Lambda Signatures which I got with a T1 for about $800. Love them.  (I also love my ESP-950's.)
  
 Lambda Signatures have the famous "Stax Etch"  hyper-detail artifact in their sound, which I happen to like.  The (non-'Signature') Lambda Pro 'phones that I've heard are closer to neutral.  So, an SRM-T1 and a pair of Lambda Pro's or Lambda Signatures depending on your 'detail' (i.e., modest treble coloration) preference.  That would be my suggestion.


----------



## David1961

james-uk said:


> What would you guys recommend for a budget 'starter ' stax rig?




Although I've never heard this combo, there's the SR-003mk2 + SRM-252s which together is called the SRS-005Smk2.
The SR-003mk2 is a 5 pin in ear headphone and the SRM-252s is obviously the amp but small.
If you look up the price they shouldn't be that much.


----------



## complin

How much do you want to spend? New or Used?
  
 Quote:


james-uk said:


> What would you guys recommend for a budget 'starter ' stax rig?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

SRS-2170 on pricejapan.

Ali


----------



## James-uk

New and upto £1000 ish . Starting to think maybe the sr 407 with amp bundle? Although that is above said budget. Do price japan deliver to the uk?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Yes, they do, you can ask shipsut.

 Ali


----------



## David1961

Stax amps from PriceJapan are only available in 100v.


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## davidsh

If I were you I'd just start with the 207 and the 323. 207 cuz it seems to be as good as any of the other x07's technically speaking and srm-323 because it seems to me that it's a solid performing amp for a reasonable price. There ain't really no consensus regarding the performance of the x07 lineup btw. 
This is all what I gathered from following the thread, not first hand knowledge.


----------



## eric65

Hello Kevin
  
 Can you explain to me why we not get the same results when comparing the raw data from your graph (RKV-II + 1:6 transformers + Stax (?)) and mine (RKV-II + 1:50 tranformers (of the Wee box) + Stax 009)
_(NB: I haven't yet the data of RKV-II+ 1:5 transform (of the Verto box) a priori better than those  of the RKV-II + 1:50 transformer (of the Wee box))_
  

 http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/rkv.jpg
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/2805#post_10759016
  
 My results are as follows: for 6 distinct frequencies (250 Hz 500 Hz 1 KHz; 2 KHz; 5 KHz; 10 KHz)
 Voltage measured, depending on the frequency, in input of the Wee (and therefore in output of the RKV) with the transformers 1:50 of the Wee, and with for load an electrostatic headphones Stax SR-009 145000 Ohm of impedance.
  
Signal sinus 250 Hz : 0.205 V (relative gain : 0 dB)
Signal sinus 500 Hz : 0.203 V (relative gain : 0 dB)
Signal sinus 1 KHz :  0.201 V (relative gain : 0 dB)
 Signal sinus 2 KHz :  0.193 V (relative gain : - 0.3 dB) (to compare to the +2 dB of your graph, but with best ratio transformers for you : 1:6 vs 1:50)
Signal sinus 5 KHz :  0.160 V (relative gain : - 1.9 dB) (to compare to the -4 dB of your graph, but with best ratio transformers for you : 1:6 vs 1:50)
Signal sinus 10 KHz : 0.115 V (relative gain : - 4.8 dB) (to compare to the -17 dB of your graph, but with best ratio transformers for you : 1:6 vs 1:50)


----------



## James-uk

davidsh said:


> If I were you I'd just start with the 207 and the 323. 207 cuz it seems to be as good as any of the other x07's technically speaking and srm-323 because it seems to me that it's a solid performing amp for a reasonable price. There ain't really no consensus regarding the performance of the x07 lineup btw.
> This is all what I gathered from following the thread, not first hand knowledge.




So they pretty much use the same transducer in that range then? I basically just want to have another HP in rotation but with a different flavour to my HD800 and 600. I'm kinda curious to see how a budget Estat compares to the HD800 . I've heard some say even the budget stats are better than the HD800. Would you say the experience of listening to stats is different enough from the best dynamics to justify having both?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

david1961 said:


> Stax amps from PriceJapan are only available in 100v.


 
 Indeed, but no real issue with SRM-252s : you can easily buy a cheap 12V adapter in your country as long as you watch polarity (reversed) and current capability (at least 400 mA).
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/210476/srm-252-power-supply
  
 Ali


----------



## complin

Have you heard the current crop of Lambda's? 
 Personally I don't like them as much as the previous series. I would go for the 207 bundle initially its great bank for the buck.
 If you find you like the estats then you can upgrade from there to a 323/KGSSHV, 007/009 etc
 .
 I would go for a used set if I were starting out down this route like a 212/202 or 313/404 
  
 Quote:


james-uk said:


> New and upto £1000 ish . Starting to think maybe the sr 407 with amp bundle? Although that is above said budget. Do price japan deliver to the uk?


----------



## davidsh

The experience of listening to stats is very different compared to hd800. Both have the ability to be equally resolving in different ways based on experience with LS, sigma and 307 (and my modded hd800). You might like stats better.. Or not. Not sure which I like the best. The LS for example surely has less mishaps than hd800, less artifacts in the high mids/treble region. 
Where the hd800 wins is in soundstage, though sigma is pretty decent too.
Put in another why.. The lambdas sound like what they are wrt soundstage... Headphones.
They also lack the last bit in bass, especially compared to planars.


----------



## negura

david1961 said:


>


 
  
 Many thanks for the impressions. Owning almost the same amplifier with Julian, I most definitely agree with your findings. The SR-009s + this KGSSHV is the best bass I've heard on Stax. Very well defined and controlled, but impactful and very satisfying. The KGSSHV also has the quality of reproducing well detailed treble with no harshness whatsoever, which is excellent especially for a solid state.
  
 I believe you've heard them in absolutely the best way and that's exactly what I would have done myself: BHSE + copper and KGSSHV with silver cables. That said I found the XLRs impact the sound a bit less than RCA cables, for both good or worse. But of course, there's more to it and anyone can tune both to preference.
  
 P.S.: I hope both amps were warmed up for a while. Nevermind it being a solid state, my KGSSHV likes to clock about an hour to fully bake the sound.


----------



## jgazal

@eric65 

  
 What would happen if you fire a pink noise and use a real time analyzer instead of single sine waves and a decibilimeter? 
  
 If you do not want pink noise, then imagine two setups playing the same classical music track:
  

Tubes directly coupled to electrostatic transducers; and
Tubes to transformers and then transformers to electrostatic transducers.
  
 Then imagine two microphones and two graphic equalizers, each one coupled to the transducers of each setup. 
  
 Now imagine dynamic charts displayed by the graphic equalizers 1 and 2. Do you think the the bars representing higher frequencies would peak at the same db level in both graphic equilizers?
  
 My intuition says your question has something to do with saturation in transformers.
  

 I was trying to understand the relationship between core materials, sizes and geometries (including lamination), the calculation of wire wounds, the wire gauges and the induced magnetic fields at different AC current frequencies. Furthermore, when the whole audio spectrum is being played, as in music, I was trying to relate all that building parameters with saturation and how such saturation changes the impedance in higher frequencies. But I confess I got lost. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  

 Now curiosity is back and I will try to read more about it.


----------



## arnaud

It's simpler than that jgazal I believe: I think Eric is misled by his measurements as he expects to measure a flat gain with those near field open baffle spl measurements.

 There is a strong possibility that the spl as seen by the sound level meter goes UP with frequency all the way to upper mids when the phones are properly driven. 

Then, if Eric measures an spl that decreases with frequency, that's not expected of such kind of measurement, and would indicate that the transformer is indeed seriously rolling off the mid highs.

Eric, ignoring for a moment the utter imprecision of the measurement technique used, you would want to compare current readings to those when the phone is driven by a Stax amp or better.

Arnaud


----------



## eric65

Arnaud,
  
 If the transformer (1:50 of the Wee box) is indeed seriously rolling off the mid highs with the RKV-II amp and SR-009 headphones, how we explain that we obtain the same results of measurement (at the microphone), under the same conditions, with the amplifiers for electrostatic headphones Stax : SRM-007t 2 and SRM-727 (a priori devoid of transformers)?
  
  
 B: comparison of  *009 headphones* with amps *RKV-WEE / SRM 727 / SRM 007t2* (NB: level benchmark standard for amplifiers: 73 dBA SPL at 1 kHz with the 009)
 free-field measurements :
  
500 Hz : 73,2 dBA / 73,0 dBA / 73,3 dBA
1 KHz : 73,0 dBA / 73,0 dBA / 73,0 dBA
2 KHz : 75,0 dBA / 75,0 dBA / 75,5 dBA
5 KHz : 71,5 dBA / 67,7 dBA / 68,2 dBA
10 KHz : 76,5 dBA / 69,9 dBA / 71,0 dBA
*12.5 KHz : 62,0 dBA / 56,0 dBA / 61,0 dBA*
  
Conclusion : *significant roll-of **at 12.5 KHz* (relative to the frequency control 1 KHz) with the *three amplifiers* *RKV-WEE / SRM 727 / SRM 007t2* *+ Stax 009*.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/2820#post_10759879
  
  
 My results are as follows: for 6 distinct frequencies (250 Hz 500 Hz 1 KHz; 2 KHz; 5 KHz; 10 KHz)
 Voltage measured, depending on the frequency, in input of the Wee (and therefore in output of the RKV) with the transformers 1:50 of the Wee, and with for load an electrostatic headphones Stax SR-009 145000 Ohm of impedance.
  
Signal sinus 250 Hz : 0.205 V (relative gain : 0 dB)
Signal sinus 500 Hz : 0.203 V (relative gain : 0 dB)
Signal sinus 1 KHz :  0.201 V (relative gain : 0 dB)
 Signal sinus 2 KHz :  0.193 V (relative gain : - 0.3 dB) (to compare to the +2 dB of your graph, but with best ratio transformers for you : 1:6 vs 1:50)
Signal sinus 5 KHz :  0.160 V (relative gain : - 1.9 dB) (to compare to the -4 dB of your graph, but with best ratio transformers for you : 1:6 vs 1:50)
Signal sinus 10 KHz : 0.115 V (relative gain : - 4.8 dB) (to compare to the -17 dB of your graph, but with best ratio transformers for you : 1:6 vs 1:50)
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/2820#post_10760957
  
 Eric


----------



## AngryAudiophile

In terms of technical and raw data, the 009 is better than the 007s.  However, I still enjoy the 007s more when it boils down to musicality and pure enjoyment.  I found the 009 to be too harsh and too boring with tone.  I've now owned all the 007 revisions and the 009s and decided to keep the 007 MK 2.5.  Found it to be the most enjoyable out of the entire bunch.


----------



## kevin gilmore

guess I will just have to build one to verify that my synthesis is correct.
  
http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/rkvboard.jpg


----------



## eric65

kevin gilmore said:


> guess I will just have to build one to verify that my synthesis is correct.
> 
> http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/rkvboard.jpg


 
  
Information relayed on HCFR
 http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178202430.html#p178202430


----------



## rgs9200m

I think it's more appropriate to compare something like the Hifiman 560 to a Stax, rather than the Senn 800 which still is well within the dynamic camp to my ears. 
 Stax and Hifiman emphasize texture and speed and intimacy and closeness and microscopic insight, while the 800 is more about continuousness, flow, and the wide open spaces.
 And the HD800 is a bit, sort of, uh, jazzy.
 (In my stable: HD800, HE560, SR009.)


----------



## complin

So have HiFiMan fixed the fatal flaws with the 560 as it was withdrawn for a while?
  
 Quote:


rgs9200m said:


> I think it's more appropriate to compare something like the Hifiman 560 to a Stax, rather than the Senn 800 which still is well within the dynamic camp to my ears.
> Stax and Hifiman emphasize texture and speed and intimacy and closeness and microscopic insight, while the 800 is more about continuousness, flow, and the wide open spaces.
> And the HD800 is a bit, sort of, uh, jazzy.
> (In my stable: HD800, HE560, SR009.)


----------



## davidsh

Yes, they have fixed the flaws. Now there's just the usual QC issues.
Microscopic insight and HE-560 doesn't sit too well with me by the way.


----------



## mechgamer123

Anyone here have any idea how much a pair of original SR-Lambdas in mediocre condition (pads need to be changed, headband is falling apart, foam is deteriorating, the cable has had some repairs done on it and still cuts out sometimes in the left driver) is worth with a SRD-7 SB amplifier? I'm looking to buy one but honestly I have no idea how much it's worth and neither does the seller. The 6 pin standard bias plug looks to be fine, contrary to what I originally feared, that I would have to buy a new SB connector. It seems I need to pull apart the driver enclosure and resolder the cable, if that's even feasible that is...


----------



## davidsh

I'd pay tops 150$ considering condition. Probably worth more, I'd say 200$


----------



## Keithpgdrb

In that condition, I'd also say about $150. Should be less, but they are going for higher prices now.


----------



## Audio Jester

Has anyone had to pay for a repair to 009's due to channel imbalance? I am after a guide on cost. Thanks.


----------



## davidsh

Has anyone done testing wrt excursion, frequency response and distortion with varying volume? After all the low maximum excursion of 'stats is an issue wrt producing low bass, and it must be harder for the dirver at higher volumes.


----------



## n3rdling

Tyll et al have tested them at 90 and 100 dB...no major signs of spiked distortion.  If the drivers and amp/bias are all functioning properly distortion should never really be a problem, even at low frequencies.  In fact, they generally kill dynamic drivers in terms of bass and sub bass distortion, and the advantage becomes even greater at increased volume.  The FR also doesn't seem to change much...you will probably hear a difference naturally though due to Fletcher-Munson/loudness curves.


----------



## davidsh

I just wanted to know what planars have over stats in the bass, and thought to myself it might have to do with high tension and low excursion of the stat diaphragm.


----------



## kothganesh

Just go the 009s and going non-stop with the KGGShv. Now the light dawns about why things said about it are said indeed ! Time to shut up and go back to the music.


----------



## astrostar59

kothganesh said:


> Just go the 009s and going non-stop with the KGGShv. Now the light dawns about why things said about it are said indeed ! Time to shut up and go back to the music.




Yes I agree, but that costs a lot of money. It depends on the budget the guy has really. Maybe before the 'ultimate' Stax set-up were using the HD800s with a mid range dynamic amp, either with tubes or Solid State. Maybe that is best for mid budget, and the 009s with a DIY KGSShv or BHSE if more money? 

The 007s are not half bad either, but need a good amp, the 717 at the very least. A second hand pair of 007s MK2s plus the 717 or a modded 727 could be had for around 3 - 4K US.

A new 009 plus a good DIY KGSShv would be double that.


----------



## kothganesh

astrostar59 said:


> Yes I agree, but that costs a lot of money. It depends on the budget the guy has really. Maybe before the 'ultimate' Stax set-up were using the HD800s with a mid range dynamic amp, either with tubes or Solid State. Maybe that is best for mid budget, and the 009s with a DIY KGSShv or BHSE if more money?
> 
> The 007s are not half bad either, but need a good amp, the 717 at the very least. A second hand pair of 007s MK2s plus the 717 or a modded 727 could be had for around 3 - 4K US.
> 
> A new 009 plus a good DIY KGSShv would be double that.


 
 Oh yeah, I am truly lucky to get the 009 as part of a trade. I already had the SR 007 mk1 and Geoff's KGSShv. He, in his inimitable way, pointed out people that were using the KGSShv were also using 009s. So when this came along, I could not resist. I do have the 800 with a tube amp so some A/Bing will be done in the near future. But for now, the 009 is center stage and I've been ignoring the family for 3 hours now


----------



## SilverEars

kothganesh said:


> Oh yeah, I am truly lucky to get the 009 as part of a trade. I already had the SR 007 mk1 and Geoff's KGSShv. He, in his inimitable way, pointed out people that were using the KGSShv were also using 009s. So when this came along, I could not resist. I do have the 800 with a tube amp so some A/Bing will be done in the near future. But for now, the 009 is center stage and I've been ignoring the family for 3 hours now


 
 What I'm curious about the 009 is does it do better with wider genre of music than the 800.  800 with SS brings out it's characteristic of not tolerating other than certain types of recordings.  I sense this because of the 5-10k peak.  I don't see this with the 009 so curious if this helps.


----------



## arnaud

For me, the sr009 does not suffer from sibilance of the hd800 but it has a similar kind of non-attenuated mid-highs to upper treble. Some seem to have success with various amps to control the HD800. But I am unclear how that works out as the phone suffers from acoustic ringing right in the sibilance region (in the order of 3-4dB, what amp could possibly tame that and only that?).

Some may feel like the 009 is a bright headphone (or call it bass light / lacking body / foundations). This is more or less of an issue depending on listening preferences (music type / loudness level / preferred else accustomed voicing) and upstream gear ( amplification / source ...).

IMO, you can't have the cake and eat it, ultimate resolution comes at a cost: that of discovering the ugly part of some (hopefully a minority) of your recordings.

If you're not really after the ultimate in resolution / transparency / airyness, there are many other (possibly cheaper) options, including orthos.


----------



## 3X0

I've transitioned from my Omega to the HD 800 for general-purpose and I think the 800s get pretty close in resolution. Although the soundstage is more vast it doesn't have the ethereal qualities of the Stax -- that ethereality contributes greatly to perceived transparency and air IMHO.

The 800s are also much harsher in the treble but I'm heavily biased against electrodynamics in this area.


----------



## paradoxper

silverears said:


> What I'm curious about the 009 is does it do better with wider genre of music than the 800.  800 with SS brings out it's characteristic of not tolerating other than certain types of recordings.  I sense this because of the 5-10k peak.  I don't see this with the 009 so curious if this helps.


 
 Sure does. Especially since to my ears, the HD800's are so damn flat and boring comparative to some other top offerings. And that's regardless of what magical tube amp or wire-with-gain you pair it with. 009's are butter while the HD800's are grating.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

arnaud said:


> Some may feel like the 009 is a bright headphone (or call it bass light / lacking body / foundations). This is more or less of an issue depending on listening preferences (music type / loudness level / preferred else accustomed voicing) and upstream gear ( amplification / source ...).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  

 Soooooooo true. Let's do filthy sex together 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ali


----------



## subtle

Is Price Japan still a legit place to order a new 009 from?
  
 Also, when did the price on these drop to the ~$3300 range?  Last time I checked, which wasn't too long ago, they were $4500+.


----------



## kothganesh

arnaud said:


> For me, the sr009 does not suffer from sibilance of the hd800 but it has a similar kind of non-attenuated mid-highs to upper treble. Some seem to have success with various amps to control the HD800. But I am unclear how that works out as the phone suffers from acoustic ringing right in the sibilance region (in the order of 3-4dB, what amp could possibly tame that and only that?).
> 
> Some may feel like the 009 is a bright headphone (or call it bass light / lacking body / foundations). This is more or less of an issue depending on listening preferences (music type / loudness level / preferred else accustomed voicing) and upstream gear ( amplification / source ...).
> 
> ...




On the sibilance, you're spot on. I have a couple of recordings that are sibilant. With the 800, I instinctively reach for the volume knob but today with the 009, I was able to listen to the song without wincing. 
By the way, the 009 is not a bass light can at all,IMO. I have some Led Zep recordings that have a heavy bottom end and the 009 was very faithful to the source.


----------



## complin

Well i've been a dyed in wool Stax user for decades, but for me the Sennheiser HD800 is one of the most exciting and scalable headphones in the dynamic arena i've ever heard.
 Its ruthlessly revealing like the 009! Flat, boring and sillabent are not terms I associate with it unless the source/recording is that way inclined. Its no more selective or otherwise to genre than the 009 either IMO.
 Its definitely the most difficult, enigmatic and infuriating headphone I have ever owned. When I started to appreciate its undeniable strengths I have persevered until it sounds well truly great and is not at all put in the shade by the 009. Yes it does sound bright sometimes but I frmly believe this is mostly down to the recording or source and the HD800 does tend to accentuate hot or compressed recordings.Stats and the 009 for me will always have the edge but at its best  it is truly amazing for a $1500 headphone.
  
 Quote:


silverears said:


> What I'm curious about the 009 is does it do better with wider genre of music than the 800.  800 with SS brings out it's characteristic of not tolerating other than certain types of recordings.  I sense this because of the 5-10k peak.  I don't see this with the 009 so curious if this helps.


 
  
  


arnaud said:


> For me, the sr009 does not suffer from sibilance of the hd800 but it has a similar kind of non-attenuated mid-highs to upper treble. Some seem to have success with various amps to control the HD800. But I am unclear how that works out as the phone suffers from acoustic ringing right in the sibilance region (in the order of 3-4dB, what amp could possibly tame that and only that?).
> 
> Some may feel like the 009 is a bright headphone (or call it bass light / lacking body / foundations). This is more or less of an issue depending on listening preferences (music type / loudness level / preferred else accustomed voicing) and upstream gear ( amplification / source ...).
> 
> ...


 
  
  


paradoxper said:


> Sure does. Especially since to my ears, the HD800's are so damn flat and boring comparative to some other top offerings. And that's regardless of what magical tube amp or wire-with-gain you pair it with. 009's are butter while the HD800's are grating.


----------



## rgs9200m

Complin, (probably shouldn't ask this in a Stax thread) but what's your HD800 cable? Thanks. 1-word answer is fine.


----------



## paradoxper

complin said:


> Well i've been a dyed in wool Stax user for decades, but for me the Sennheiser HD800 is one of the most exciting and scalable headphones in the dynamic arena i've ever heard.
> Its ruthlessly revealing like the 009! Flat, boring and sillabent are not terms I associate with it unless the source/recording is that way inclined. Its no more selective or otherwise to genre than the 009 either IMO.
> Its definitely the most difficult, enigmatic and infuriating headphone I have ever owned. When I started to appreciate its undeniable strengths I have persevered until it sounds well truly great and is not at all put in the shade by the 009. Yes it does sound bright sometimes but I frmly believe this is mostly down to the recording or source and the HD800 does tend to accentuate hot or compressed recordings.Stats and the 009 for me will always have the edge but at its best  it is truly amazing for a $1500 headphone.


 
 To me, it comes down to sounding uninvolving. This was completely apparent to me with the mk 1 - which had a more natural presentation to it, while being every bit as technical. And those differences were just further revealed with the 009.
  
 I'll never dog how capable the HD800 is and I've liked it on some rigs, it's just one of those headphones that never fully did it for me though.


----------



## 3X0

complin said:


>


 
 I would agree. The HD 800 is the only dynamic member I plan to keep in my stable (orthodynamics included).
  
 I'm still not fully convinced that the HD 800s are that difficult to tame (it was pretty much plug-and-play on my gear with predictable results), but it is certainly sufficiently revealing for a daily driver.
  
 I can't bear using Stax on the daily due to durability and reliability concerns.


----------



## negura

silverears said:


> What I'm curious about the 009 is does it do better with wider genre of music than the 800.  800 with SS brings out it's characteristic of not tolerating other than certain types of recordings.  I sense this because of the 5-10k peak.  I don't see this with the 009 so curious if this helps.


 
  
 I fully understand where you are coming from. I have found this is not at all a problem with the SR-009s. That is with several amps, but even more so with the KGSSHV. For such resolving headphones, the SR-009s are quite accepting and a genre master with anything I throw at them: from Prodigy to Anathema and Rotting Christ to Verdi.
  
 They are not perfect headphones, but about as good as they get technically. And very importantly do not exhibit any "glaring" flaws. 
  
 That said, I agree the HD800s can be tamed, but this is a mission and a hobby in itself for someone like me who likes to listen to one headphone for hours and hours on end.


----------



## mulveling

negura said:


> I fully understand where you are coming from. I have found this is not at all a problem with the SR-009s. That is with several amps, but even more so with the KGSSHV. For such resolving headphones, the SR-009s are quite accepting and a genre master with anything I throw at them: from Prodigy to Anathema and Rotting Christ to Verdi.
> 
> They are not perfect headphones, but about as good as they get technically. And very importantly do not exhibit any "glaring" flaws.
> 
> That said, I agree the HD800s can be tamed, but this is a mission and a hobby in itself for someone like me who likes to listen to one headphone for hours and hours on end.


 
 Agree with negura's assertions. A good amp (e.g. full-size KGSShv, BHSE, T2) will coax enough bass & dynamics out of the 009 to make them excellent all-genre headphones for the majority of recordings. There's definitely some stuff -- e.g. thrash metal, or something particularly lean/bright sounding -- where I'd much rather pick up something like the ATH-L3000. But so far that's been the minority. The 009 are so good from top-to-bottom that they don't need to make concessions towards being forgiving. And when the recording is any better than mediocre (even just a tiny bit), the results are typically outstanding. 
  
 I've tried the HD800 now though SDS-XLR, GS-X Mk 2, Headamp Gilmore Balanced Reference, RSA Apache -- all in balanced mode from the same NAD51 source as with the 009 systems. And it's just a whole lot more difficult for me to get into it. The SDS-XLR gets me the closest, but that's probably filling in some bass more than neutral (sounds great, though). I also slightly preferred the Gilmore Balanced Reference to the GS-X Mk2 in all aspects except for that nasty HD800 treble peak, which was made worse (and kind of a deal-breaker, unfortunately). The GS-X Mk 2 is clean, neutral, and smooth from top-to-bottom, as expected; notably better than the Apache (which itself sounded pretty good in balanced mode). 
  
 Also borrowing some Lambda Pros -- they're a bit warmer and more forgiving, though (obviously) less resolving than the 009. Sounding great out of the KGSShv. Very nice; not a bad set to have around!


----------



## AngryAudiophile

The HD800 is worth keeping for live concert type recordings and classical, I do not think my 009 or 007 even remotely compare.  True, they are more clear and more realistically well defined and solid, but neither portray certain spacious genres and tracks nearly as well as the HD800.  For intimacy needs, I seek the 009.  For classical or tracks that are spaciously recorded, I swap to the HD800.  For most everything else, the 007 is on my head.


----------



## blackads

subtle said:


> Is Price Japan still a legit place to order a new 009 from?
> 
> Also, when did the price on these drop to the ~$3300 range?  Last time I checked, which wasn't too long ago, they were $4500+.





I bought a pair of 009s and a 727A a couple of weeks back from pricejapan and could not be happier with their service - ordered and paid on a Friday, had an email to say that the 727 may take a week to get, but then on the Saturday had an email to say that they had shipped. 

They arrived on the Thursday. Total price just over $5000 Au, plus import costs adding another 600. RRP of the 009 alone in Aust is $5999.

 The bundled 727 deal on pricejapan includes a 240 to 100V power transformer and the set up works perfectly. Ive modded the 727 and it sounds great.

As I said, I couldnt be happier with the service from pricejapan - I dont however have any knowledge of what they may be like to deal with for warranty claims......


----------



## jackskelly

blackads said:


> I bought a pair of 009s and a 727A a couple of weeks back from pricejapan and could not be happier with their service - ordered and paid on a Friday, had an email to say that the 727 may take a week to get, but then on the Saturday had an email to say that they had shipped.
> 
> They arrived on the Thursday. Total price just over $5000 Au, plus import costs adding another 600. RRP of the 009 alone in Aust is $5999.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I ordered from them in February of 2013 and I didn't have any problems. I made an initial deposit (for $500) for the SR-009 and then paid the remainder of the balance I owed once they were ready to ship (5 weeks or so later). They've worked perfectly so far, no issues whatsoever.


----------



## complin

APuresound and stock..... but to be honest I haven't found after-market cables make that much difference with headphones.
 I know this will be heresy to some! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


rgs9200m said:


> Complin, (probably shouldn't ask this in a Stax thread) but what's your HD800 cable? Thanks. 1-word answer is fine.


----------



## realmassy

angryaudiophile said:


> The HD800 is worth keeping for live concert type recordings and classical, I do not think my 009 or 007 even remotely compare.  True, they are more clear and more realistically well defined and solid, but neither portray certain spacious genres and tracks nearly as well as the HD800.  For intimacy needs, I seek the 009.  For classical or tracks that are spaciously recorded, I swap to the HD800.  For most everything else, the 007 is on my head.


 
 Saying the 009 can't "portray certain spacious genres and tracks nearly as well as the HD800" is quite a statement. I strongly disagree with that.


----------



## subtle

blackads said:


> I bought a pair of 009s and a 727A a couple of weeks back from pricejapan and could not be happier with their service - ordered and paid on a Friday, had an email to say that the 727 may take a week to get, but then on the Saturday had an email to say that they had shipped.
> 
> They arrived on the Thursday. Total price just over $5000 Au, plus import costs adding another 600. RRP of the 009 alone in Aust is $5999.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for the reply blackads.
  
 I had no idea the price of the 009 had dropped so much since the last time I checked on it.  I think it may finally be time to place an order.


----------



## rgs9200m

Thanks Complin. Lately in general I've been finding stock cables on newer phones have improved a lot since the old days. The phones I have with permanently attached cables sound great.
 The exception is Audeze, where I like Q-audio a lot.
 And yeah, an 009 is a steal at these prices, and anyone who could cobble together the funds should jump on this while it lasts.
 (Especially non-Stax users who will enter the wonderful world of Stax.)


----------



## Crashem

subtle said:


> Thank you for the reply blackads.
> 
> I had no idea the price of the 009 had dropped so much since the last time I checked on it.  I think it may finally be time to place an order.




More a situation where yen is fairly weak at the moment.


----------



## davidsh

What does pricejapan do wrt decalred value, and how about taxes etc. in general?


----------



## Crashem

davidsh said:


> What does pricejapan do wrt decalred value, and how about taxes etc. in general?




Where are you at? To US, I didn't pay anything as declared value was under the allowed amount. In any case, YMMV but they will work with you.


----------



## davidsh

It's just taxes alone would be some 1000$, you see..


----------



## milosz

Responding to a few comments recently on Sennheiser HD-800's with an eye (ear?) to making some comparisons with Stax sound...
  
 I used to have a pair of HD-800's. I have a kind of hyperacusis, which makes certain high frequency sounds painful at times; the HD-800's well known treble emphasis became quite unbearable for  me.  Aside from that, the sound of the HD-800 was quite transparent and wonderful and in my opinion the best non-electrostatic sound there is. HD-800's are just SUPER CLEAN.  That high-frequency exaggeration did not seem to me to be like the Lambda Signature "etch"- the HD-800's treble issue was much more pronounced, to the point where me and my hyperacusis just couldn't tolerate them.  YMMV. I tried a good many amplifiers- both tube and solid state- and while I found I liked the Bottlehead Crack/Speedball the best, I still couldn't listen to them- even with EQ applied- without suffering pain at moderate (75~80 dB SPL) levels or above.
  
 It's a shame I couldn't love them, really, because they were the only non-electrostatic 'phones I have heard that approached Stax and Koss in terms of resolution and clarity.  Just look at Purrin's CSD waterfall plots and you can see some of the good technical qualities these phones have- almost no stored energy problems, unlike so many other 'phones. http://www.head-fi.org/t/566929/headphone-csd-waterfall-plots/165#post_7776220
  
 Build quality was also nothing short of splendid, too.  Marvelously well made things.
  
 Alas they had to go.  Just too expensive to have laying around, unused.
  
 It's odd that I can listen to my Lambda Signatures at pretty high levels without this sort of pain and ear fatigue, even though there is obviously some HF emphasis in the Stax. It must be smaller in magnitude and some distance away from my hyperacussis'  most sensitive frequencies- something like that.  I can also listen to HE-6's and Beyer DT-880's without trouble, even though these both have some treble emphasis.  There was just something about the HD-800's that was actually _painful_ for me to hear.
  
 I have to say that I think my various electrostatic headphones sound even better than the very very good HD-800's, and I'm really happy for that.


----------



## negura

angryaudiophile said:


> The HD800 is worth keeping for live concert type recordings and classical, I do not think my 009 or 007 even remotely compare.  True, they are more clear and more realistically well defined and solid, but neither portray certain spacious genres and tracks nearly as well as the HD800.  For intimacy needs, I seek the 009.  For classical or tracks that are spaciously recorded, I swap to the HD800.  For most everything else, the 007 is on my head.


 
  
 Live recordings in particular are superb with the SR-009s. Even when recording quality is arguable, but not completely horrible. On nice gear (which is also a pre-requisite for the HD800s) I agree with you the SR-009s are more realistic, but this is also in respect to image projections: the SR-009s can deal with small and big much better. The HD800s can do big a bit better due to their indiscriminately wide sound stage. But yes that sounds really nice with *some *tunes.
  
 Unfortunately the more I upgraded my gear, the more I could see the limitations of the 007s in comparison to the 009s, as much as I love the former for what they do so well. As all around headphones I rate the 007s well above the HD800s.


----------



## AngryAudiophile

negura said:


> Live recordings in particular are superb with the SR-009s. Even when recording quality is arguable, but not completely horrible. On nice gear (which is also a pre-requisite for the HD800s) I agree with you the SR-009s are more realistic, but this is also in respect to image projections: the SR-009s can deal with small and big much better. The HD800s can do big a bit better due to their indiscriminately wide sound stage. But yes that sounds really nice with *some *tunes.
> 
> Unfortunately the more I upgraded my gear, the more I could see the limitations of the 007s in comparison to the 009s, as much as I love the former for what they do so well. As all around headphones I rate the 007s well above the HD800s.


 
  
 I fully agree on all points.  I find the HD800 to warp small sounding recordings too much.  Swapping between the 007 or 009 and the HD800 instantly portrays a sense of something wrong with the generalized shape of the HD800, as well as the positioning.  These faults don't exist on the Stax headphones, but are in abundance on the HD800.  As mentioned, some tracks and genres just sound better to me through the HD800 than the 009 and I am perfectly willing to sacrifice the sublime clarity in the Stax's for the sublime spaciousness in the HD800.  For example, Suite for Cello No.6 by Janos Stalker is a lively and close up sound signature in a classical venue, the 009 annihilates the HD800 with recordings like this.  However, on the very same album there are tracks with the microphone pushed back further to accommodate more instruments.  Here, the HD800 annihilates the 009s.  As we all know, it is about preference and this is entirely subjective.  In terms of raw clarity and realism, both the 007 and 009 outshine the HD800.  Classical in general is typically rarely recorded with the microphone so intimately placed near the musicians.  When I said the HD800 performs better than the 009 earlier, II was talking about the total and full meshing of headphone sound signature and the genres generalized recording sound signatures.  Classical to me plays better through the HD800 most of the time, more than sufficient in volume and percentages to label it a better classical powerhouse than the 009.  My two cents though...


----------



## complin

Yep have to agree as it comes back to the points I made earlier about the recording.
 There is these days a tendency to use closed mic techniques for many recordings. Whilst this gives oodles of detail it loses the acoustic of the performance venue and sometime the natural perspective of the instruments. In a live performance in a concert venue, unless artificially amplified you would never hear the performance in this way. The 009 will incisively reproduce this in spades. The HD800 however seems very adept at soundstage and acoustic environment but not quite up to the very fine granular analytics or the 009. This is probably why so many classical recordings of the 1960's-70's are considered as natural and soundstage kings, very little close mic stuff in those days.
 Much has been talked here about the soundstage of Stax, but for me the Jecklin float holds first place as the way it presents music is unique IMO. It does have its shortcomings as do all headphones, but with good recordings you do get an out of head experience.  
  
  
 Quote:


angryaudiophile said:


> I fully agree on all points.  I find the HD800 to warp small sounding recordings too much.  Swapping between the 007 or 009 and the HD800 instantly portrays a sense of something wrong with the generalized shape of the HD800, as well as the positioning.  These faults don't exist on the Stax headphones, but are in abundance on the HD800.  As mentioned, some tracks and genres just sound better to me through the HD800 than the 009 and I am perfectly willing to sacrifice the sublime clarity in the Stax's for the sublime spaciousness in the HD800.  For example, Suite for Cello No.6 by Janos Stalker is a lively and close up sound signature in a classical venue, the 009 annihilates the HD800 with recordings like this.  However, on the very same album there are tracks with the microphone pushed back further to accommodate more instruments.  Here, the HD800 annihilates the 009s.  As we all know, it is about preference and this is entirely subjective.  In terms of raw clarity and realism, both the 007 and 009 outshine the HD800.  Classical in general is typically rarely recorded with the microphone so intimately placed near the musicians.  When I said the HD800 performs better than the 009 earlier, II was talking about the total and full meshing of headphone sound signature and the genres generalized recording sound signatures.  Classical to me plays better through the HD800 most of the time, more than sufficient in volume and percentages to label it a better classical powerhouse than the 009.  My two cents though...


----------



## rgs9200m

Cavalli has a new Liquid Lightning version, the LL2T.
 A major change is a digital volume control. Any comments on such a thing?  (I think Malvalve has one too.) Thanks.


----------



## jackskelly

rgs9200m said:


> Cavalli has a new Liquid Lightning version, the LL2T.
> A major change is a digital volume control. Any comments on such a thing?  (I think Malvalve has one too.) Thanks.


 
  
 This sounds interesting. I went to his website a few weeks ago and only saw the old LL2. I have the original LL and I really love it. Looking forward to hear from anyone who ends up getting it...


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## astrostar59

[/quote]





rgs9200m said:


> Cavalli has a new Liquid Lightning version, the LL2T.
> A major change is a digital volume control. Any comments on such a thing?  (I think Malvalve has one too.) Thanks.




Ehh? How can we have a digital volume control with analogue signal only? It is not a DAC. Maybe you mean a circuit controlled
volume setting changing the resistance values?

Back to an Actual Digital volume, they all sound worse than analogue (shunt type resistors or old style wipers) IMO. It flattens the dynamics
and gives high frequencies an edge, as in read errors.


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## James-uk

Ehh? How can we have a digital volume control with analogue signal only? It is not a DAC. Maybe you mean a circuit controlled
volume setting changing the resistance values?

Back to an Actual Digital volume, they all sound worse than analogue (shunt type resistors or old style wipers) IMO. It flattens the dynamics
and gives high frequencies an edge, as in read errors.[/quote]

64 bit dithered digital volume control is very good. Heck even non dithered is fine if outputting 24 bit because it has bits to 'throw away' .


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## rgs9200m

jackskelly said:


> This sounds interesting. I went to his website a few weeks ago and only saw the old LL2. I have the original LL and I really love it. Looking forward to hear from anyone who ends up getting it...


 
 http://cavalliaudio.com/index.php?p=morestuff&stuffId=13
  
  
 Sorry, I got the attenuator description wrong.
 It's this (quoting):
  
 A Cavalli Audio unique processor-controlled, optically-coupled, photoresistor volume control. This entire assembly lives on a small board that sits at the rear of the amp near the input section.
 You can see the cable running to the control pot on the front panel. The control is a small TKD pot that tells the opto controller where to set the volume, but since it is a nice TKD pot it has the same smooth action as all TKD pots. We have tested and listened to this setup. It sounds really good.


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## Jones Bob

james-uk said:


> 64 bit dithered digital volume control is very good. Heck even non dithered is fine if outputting 24 bit because it has bits to 'throw away' .




Agree with this 100%.


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## kevin gilmore

There are 2 problems with Light Dependent Resistors.
 The first problem is that they drift over time and need calibration.
  
 These guys seem to be the king of in the field recalibration
http://www.tortugaaudio.com/product/ldr3x-passive-preamp-controller-version-2/#prettyPhoto
 takes 10 minutes (20 balanced) to do a full calibration.
  
 The other problem with LDR's is that they have significant THD in the range where
 you would want to use them. Nelson pass did a fair bit of work testing these things
  
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/80194-lightspeed-attenuator-new-passive-preamp-134.html#post1520243
  
 others have done the same
 scroll down to the middle of the page here
http://www.diyhifi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1892
  
 constant impedance step attenuators with very high quality resistors are one way to do it right.
 The twisted pear thing is NOT constant impedance. The sigma1 by amb IS constant impedance.
  
 The other way it seems is something like the khozmo which is only 2 resistors in the path at
 any time. But built with a switch that lasts more than a month.
  
 There is a company in Brittan that makes a really nice one, pretty big and pretty expensive.
 analogue devices, 42 steps.
  
 and if you have a bunch of room, the shallco that is also used in the ctc blowtorch, 45 steps
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/shallco_stepped_attenuator.html
  
 the ayre preamp also uses the shallco I believe, with a motor drive.


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## milosz

kevin gilmore said:


> ...There is a company in Brittan that makes a really nice one, pretty big and pretty expensive.
> analogue devices, 42 steps.....


 
  
  
 Do you know their name?
  
 What's your opinion of Goldpoint attenuators?


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## astrostar59

jones bob said:


> Agree with this 100%.




JRiver, Amarra, Audirvana+ all those volume controls are aweful. If you think they sound good you need to upgrade
your equipment. They kill the sound, and the software makers admit it, they recommend an actual pot if possible.


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## Michgelsen

What about the stepped attenuators on a chip, are these any good? I believe my Grace Design m903 uses one like that. It has a clicky dial on the front, which operates an analog stepped attenuator on a chip in steps of 0.5 dB. Channel matching is superb on all levels, and it's a joy to use, but I'm wondering if anybody can comment on the relative sound quality of such a device.? What are the trade-offs if you compare it with a high-quality pot?


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## kevin gilmore

The goldpoint uses a 23 position switch, the DACT uses a 24 position switch.
 Both seem reliable for many years but in my opinion both are too coarse and
 do not have enough positions.
  
 For the crazy out there, there is this
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/glasshouse-ladder-stepped-stereo-charcroft-seiden-p-10088.html
  
 and I do have one of these, also crazy expensive
http://www.tkd-corp.com/products/att/pdf/type-cs-e.pdf
  
 The 48 step khozmo would be great, maybe the newer ones are more reliable.
  
 The 63 step shallco are very VERY nice. Also large.
  
 way back when, Collins radio made 79 step attenuators designed for mixing boards
 for radio stations and the like. The most fantastic thing I have ever used. Also large.
 Had the best feel of anything else and lived forever. Silver contacts...
  
 The TI pga2320 is a well known and fairly decent chip based thing with a thd of .0003%
 but I have never seen a high end preamp use them.
  
 Way back when Levinson had two different solutions both of which evidently people
 really liked, and both were expensive. The first one was a 12 bit multiplying dac
 (actually 4 of them) where the audio input was the voltage reference. So you can
 consider this IC based. The other one was a standard R2R thing that used
 datageneral dg501 (now Vishay) cmos switches as the switching elements
 all on a Teflon circuit board.
  
 The nelson pass high end preamp does the same R2R attenuator with hand
 selected fets used as the switching elements, biased in a way such that they
 produce ultra low distortion.
  
 I like my 256 position .25db per step gold crosspoint relay attenuator better
 than all the above. (well if I could get the Collins radio things...)


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## astrostar59

That is very detailed information Kevin. Thank you. This subject is huge and has sonic impacts more than people realise. It might be better under it's own thread. Back my the Khozmo I have just bought one of their Passive 'pre amps', the stereo model with selector. I choose the Takman z foils version. I will post my findings in the next few weeks. It is actually going i my speaker rig, fed by a low output impadance of 10 ohms from my Tubed DAC which has 2v output and transformers on the output. 

Short interconnects then the Khozmo 10k passive, feeding my Plinius power amp which is 47k input impedance + an active sub which is 10k input impedance. So I was thinking my DAC source would see a load of around 37K? Is that more or less correct Kevin? If the passive sounds awefull due to impedance mismatch, I will need to revert back to using an active pre-amp. The Plinius can reach it's rated power on .8v input so hopefully there will be enough current.

Any thoughts on this subject Kevin. Sorry, off topic on this thread guys.


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## eric65

Hello,
  
 Here are the latest pics available of the new Energizer AudioValve Verto, who seems wanting to go further in terms of versatility and the sound quality (coupled to the amplifier of the same brand Audiovalve RKV-II or III) than its direct competitor, the Woo-Audio Wee.
  
 These photographs, taken this time from inside the case, show only two (big) transformers of the brand Pikatron, as well a series of... (?) participating in the creation of a Self Biasing (SB) from the input source (somewhat after the manner of Energizer Stax SRD-7 SB of yesteryear).
  
 The supposed superiority of the Verto compared to the Wee would come from both of the best intrinsic quality of the Pikatron transformers, as well as a lower ratio of amplification of the voltage transformers (ratio 1:5 for the Verto versus 1:50 for the Wee)  (NB: transformers optimized for the RKV-Verto combo), that which would give greater transparency and clarity to the sound, as well as less sound distortion.
  
 The Self-Biasing (SB) 580 Volt DC charging time of the Verto (if headphone Stax Pro plugged, taking as a source input Jack of Verto (connected to the RKV)) would be of the order of two minutes.
  
 A question: what is the advantage of a Self-Biasing (SB) compared to a transformer directly dedicated as 580 Volt DC bias generator?
  
 Another question, related to the first question: Spritzer seemed to say that the generator (transformers) of bias voltage (580 V DC) of the Woo-Audio Wee Energizer was a 'diaphragm killer' (because of the instantaneous voltage of diaphragm implementation?, which would not be the case of loading much more progressive and long provided by a SB device). Is this true?
 If this criticism is justified, would it not also the case of all Stax amplifiers when they are plugged and unplugged on Stax headphones on the output (outlet Stax) of the amplifier already lit, same potentiometer to zero from the amplifier?
  

  

  
_" the high-voltage cascade VERTO produced up to 1.5 kV, and is generated only by the signal voltage. It takes about 2 minutes to the charge for the bias voltage established and stable, you can see this at the white glow of theLED, it only serves to control. To establish the charge an adequate volume is required "_
  
  

  
 http://www.audiovalve.info/to/verto.php


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## milosz

kevin gilmore said:


> The goldpoint uses a 23 position switch, the DACT uses a 24 position switch.
> Both seem reliable for many years but in my opinion both are too coarse and
> do not have enough positions.


 
  
 Hahaha, not enough positions.  OK.
  
 Reminds me of a girl I used to date.


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## kevin gilmore

eric65 said:


> Another question, related to the first question: Spritzer seemed to say that the generator (transformers) of bias voltage (580 V DC) of the Woo-Audio Wee Energizer was a 'diaphragm killer' (because of the instantaneous voltage of diaphragm implementation?, which would not be the case of loading much more progressive and long provided by a SB device). Is this true?
> If this criticism is justified, would it not also the case of all Stax amplifiers when they are plugged and unplugged on Stax headphones on the output (outlet Stax) of the amplifier already lit, same potentiometer to zero from the amplifier?


 
  
 All stax made amplifiers and in fact most other amplifiers have 5 Megohm series resistors to the diaphrams from the bias supply limiting the charging current
 and thus controlling the charging time. Anything that puts any amount of capacitance after this series resistor can damage the headphones.


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## negura

milosz said:


> Hahaha, not enough positions.  OK.
> 
> Reminds me of a girl I used to date.


 
  
 Good banter. But after using a 41 steps attenuator I would not go back to 24 steps.


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## pdpark

Hi everyone. I was in e-earphone in Osaka yesterday looking to pick up some used headphones and ended up walking away with earspeakers - specifically the SRS-2170 system for 30,000 JPY. One question I have that seems to have contrasting answers - these newer Stax amps, do they need a voltage transformer? Or are they fine with just an adapter? I'll be using them in the UK.


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## davidsh

A proper adapter is fine. look out for the reversed polarity. Try doing a search in the thread on reversed polarity.


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## pdpark

Thanks for the reply David.
  
 So from what I gather, it has to be 12V, over 400ma, 2.1mm/5.5mm, reversed polarity, and linear regulated?
  
 Is that right?
  
 Where do I find such a specific plug...


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## pdpark

Would a universal mains work?
  
 Such as this http://www.amazon.co.uk/AMOS-Universal-Universally-Voltage-Replacement/dp/B004YBLD1G/ref=sr_1_12?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1407638235&sr=1-12&keywords=universal+mains


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## Ali-Pacha

Yep. As told several times, you only need 12V, correct polarity and sufficient current capacity (at least 4W / 12 V = 333 mA).

 Ali


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## milosz

kevin gilmore said:


> The goldpoint uses a 23 position switch, the DACT uses a 24 position switch.
> Both seem reliable for many years but in my opinion both are too coarse and
> do not have enough positions.


 
  
 Goldpoint also has a 47 step attenuator; The mono units cost $136 each. The stereo units cost $246 each.  Heck of a bargain compared to some of these other prices.


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## tonereef

I've posted before about a 6SN7 DIY tube amp, designed and built by a friend (partly based on the Stax T1, but with many major improvements), that I've been using for the 009s, and how it was sweeter-sounding with those phones than an otherwise more-or-less identical EL34 amp, which however did a better job of driving the 007s. Since then we've done several upgrades, including replacing the 6SN7s and the 6FQ7s in the driver stage with vintage RCAs, which really opened up the sound. But the bass, especially low bass, was still on the light side. However, replacing the coupling caps with 4 Mundorf Supremes, with a total capacitance of .68 microfarads (apparently 10x that of the Stax amps) has made a huge difference. The bass is now present pretty much all the way down, and for the first time feels like it has the right weight. And it's as fast and detailed as the rest of FR. OTOH, the 007s didn't benefit from this, they already had enough bass and the change made them too rich sounding. But, believe it or not, the Lambda Signature Pros are now putting out prodigious bass. I've never heard them sound remotely like this before.


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## NoPants

if you're coupling with 10x more than the standard capacitance, why stop there
  
 pretty sure supremes come in 22uf/1400V varieties


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## davidsh

Sure it isn't the bass getting more 'bloated' as some report with caps in the signal path?


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## tonereef

Ok, there's one thing I didn't make clear - the coupling caps that were in the amp before were already high quality and their value was .47 microfarads. And of course we didn't just randomly stick in .68 microfarad Mundorfs, it was based on circuit simulations, the aim was to lower the 3dB down point from around 20 Hz to 14 Hz, without negatively affecting the phase response and harmonics.
  
 I don't know what value the coupling caps in the T1 and its brethren are, but we think it's probably very low (.01 microfarads?) as there weren't high quality, high value, reasonable sized caps back then. And it's said that the Japanese tend to like a bright sound with rolled off bass, so maybe they were designing their amps for that taste. Anyway, the circuit of this amp is different in many ways from the T1.
  
 And no, the bass of the 009 and Lambda Sig is not at all bloated. The 007 though, as I said, doesn't benefit from this mod, its bass is already pretty full and the change makes it just a bit too much. Plus it needs the greater voltage swing of EL34s rather than 6SN7s in the output stage to sound really dynamic. The 009s do not.


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## kevin gilmore

the srm-t1 is a fully dc coupled solid state/tube hybrid

no caps in the signal path.


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## tonereef

kevin gilmore said:


> the srm-t1 is a fully dc coupled solid state/tube hybrid
> 
> no caps in the signal path.


 

 Sorry, my misunderstanding. My friend was referring to the original all-tube Stax amp design from the SRX days. Apparently there were various model numbers. It's this basic circuit that he's expanded over the years.


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## audiokid

Hi, just bought some new Stax 507 and a 323 energiser. They are hooked up and sound great. 
 One small problem though, sometime when I turn my head the 507s are crackling mostly in the right ear. 
 Does anyone know what is causing this? 
 Thanks


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## davidsh

audiokid said:


> Hi, just bought some new Stax 507 and a 323 energiser. They are hooked up and sound great.
> One small problem though, sometime when I turn my head the 507s are crackling mostly in the right ear.
> Does anyone know what is causing this?
> Thanks


 
 The kind of crackling that also happens when you push on the outside of the headphone cups towards your ears (try that)?
  
 Or just ordinary crackling from the mechanical parts?


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## audiokid

Yes - does it loads when I push on the outside! Sounds like you might be familiar with this?


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## davidsh

audiokid said:


> Yes - does it loads when I push on the outside! Sounds like you might be familiar with this?


 
 Yeah, that's the Stax fart. Search on it. Not harmful afaik, that it happens a lot just means that you have a good seal and coupling between the earpads and your head, as it is due to air pushing on the dust screen/diaphragm. Don't hope you find it too bothersome.. The original 007 mk.1 does it very badly, I hear.


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## audiokid

Ah, I see. OK, as long as they're not broken! Thanks for the quick response.
  
 No, it's not too much of a problem as it only happens if I try to make it happen. Sounding good though. 
  
 They are being fed by a Chord Hugo, and compared to Audeze LCD-X and Grado RS1i. 
  
 No contest with the Grados, they are just fun headphones for the iPad etc. 
  
 The LCD-X are exceptionally good, but first impressions are that the Stax are more transparent and also more comfortable. The LCD-X have more bass but I'm hearing some very detailed deep bass on the Stax which I hadn't identified before. Very nice indeed!


----------



## astrostar59

Hi Guys
 Thought I would post my Stax & Speaker set-up as it has been updated recently. I have finally got my 'headinclouds' built KGSShv (off-board) in situ with the 009s. Looks kinda ok on the stainless desk I designed. Marble here is real cheap, you can choose from a huge slab and have it cut. Sometimes it is better to have a desk or shelf system made, it often doesn't cost much more than an off the shelf item.
  
 My DAC is an None Oversampling and tubed Audio Note 4.1 (kit) with tweaked parts. I recently dropped my pre-amp out of the system to feed the DAC direct to my KGSShv or Plinius. The KGSShv is no problem as it has a volume pot, but the Plinius is a power amp, so I am using Audirvana+ inbuilt volume control. Digital volume is not so great, so have an incoming passive to do the same thing but in analogue on the line feed. Digital volume sounds poor when hiked right back, as is required here.
  
 My DAC is tubed, but has no USB capability, which is fine. I prefer to use outside devices for that as when I bought it there were poor implementations of USB, though more manufacturers have got it right now as they realised more clients are wanting USB feed. I have an M2Tech full stack with ex PS, which can now use Integer mode in Maveriks (finally horrah!). The Mac Mini feeding the M2Tech sounds really good, looks like spaghetti mind, I try and hide it behind the iMac. I use the iMac to screen share the Mac Mini, as I work on that on web design. 
  
 The room is actually a Conservatory which is facing the sea. I have to vent it in summer, but more or less it is controllable and a solid roof helps keep the heat out.
  
 Getting all my tunes on the Mac Mini was one of the best things I ever did. I tested at length against CD spinning on a good CEC belt drive transport, and the Mac Mini with Audirvana+ and integer mode beats the drive easy. I would say 15% quality hike at least.
  
 The 009s with the KGSShv are obviously more detailed and have a more sophisticated sound overall, but I like the speaker setup as well. It can pressurise the room so gives a different experience. Certain times of the day I need to use the 009s as I live on the top floor of an apartment, and the neighbours don't dig Ramstien!
  






  

  

  
 Hope you like my system. It's been a long journey, and might not be the best system in the world as we know it, but I dig it. Everytime I play some tunes I smile, that's what this hobby is about right?


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## negura

astrostar59 said:


>


 
  
 Looking really good!
  
 I had a friend over today and we listened to the 009s + KGSSHV, as well as the 007 MKIs on the same. One of the conclusions we drew: Yet again both of us are puzzled how this is not more talked about... For all that the 009s do really well, and that's all been thoroughly commented upon: transparency, detail, speed, transients, more needs to be said about the reproduction of the bass. It is astonishing in all of: depth, precision, extension and impact. The best we've both heard.
  
 Oh yeah, I did get to hear the Chord Hugo. Nifty little device, but I prefer the PWD2 w.PUC2 overall.
  
 Regarding speaker setup: I agree. My reference sound system ended to be my PMC speakers + dual mono Class A amplifier. Despite slightly better detail and transients on the 009. The presentation, imaging and realism on speakers is something else. However that and past 7pm with small children = no go.


----------



## astrostar59

Hi Negura
 I agree, speakers can pressurise a room, and give a 3D experience that can rival live concerts. But I also dig the Stax presentation. It is very different, more personal, and somehow seems closer to the artist. I am not sure why, I guess the microscopic detail and transient response of the 009s in particular make it so exciting. Speakers, even horns sound slow and lazy compared. Yes the bass and room experience with speakers is nice. If I had to have one or the other, I would have to take the 009s at the moment. I think they are the highest you can go without 500K on amps and speakers. I have heard a system like this one here that was close, and really lifelike, but that system costs 500K and all those tubes! I am into solid state now, apart from the tubed DAC. It fits my rather hectic lifestyle!


----------



## negura

astrostar59 said:


> Hi Negura
> I agree, speakers can pressurise a room, and give a 3D experience that can rival live concerts. But I also dig the Stax presentation. It is very different, more personal, and somehow seems closer to the artist. I am not sure why, I guess the microscopic detail and transient response of the 009s in particular make it so exciting. Speakers, even horns sound slow and lazy compared. Yes the bass and room experience with speakers is nice. If I had to have one or the other, I would have to take the 009s at the moment. I think they are the highest you can go without 500K on amps and speakers. I have heard a system like this one here that was close, and really lifelike, but that system costs 500K and all those tubes! I am into solid state now, apart from the tubed DAC. It fits my rather hectic lifestyle!


 
  
 I agree the 009s are top notch in transients. Imo this is unmatched in the headphones world. I was unfortunate enough to hear these speakers two rooms away from a 009 rig: http://hifilounge.co.uk/pmc-bb5-se-speakers
  
 They are big studio monitors (with tacky veneers - ugly screw*rs they are) and they are more than a match for the 009s in transients and detail. Something I cannot say about top end Wilson or Focal for example. Both of which were also within short reach to hear.


----------



## arnaud

Astrostar59, your setup look neat, I want to see the view on the ocean! No, one thing just doesn't sound right: you need the wireless mouse with tactile top, I really like these .

As for sr009 always seeming to extract more details than any speaker, I had a recent conversation with another headfier that was quite interesting. We always think about headphone missing crossfeed to properly render soundstage but the interesting thing is the speaker stereo reproduction isn't perfect either as both speakers talk equallly to both ears. This is bound to limit perceived resolution, especially when adding reflected sounds from the room. Headphones are the closest you can be to the recorded sound as far as transients are concerned, besides the benefits of single full range / fast transducer...

Arnaud


----------



## edstrelow

arnaud said:


> Astrostar59, your setup look neat, I want to see the view on the ocean! No, one thing just doesn't sound right: you need the wireless mouse with tactile top, I really like these
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I am always surprised that in a headphone forum people think cross-feed between speakers is a good feature.  Crossfeed is simply an artifact which  messes up the stereo cues present in the signal, which in commercial material are primarily interaural amplitude differences, i.e. loudness differences between the two signals. Speaker crossfeed creates 2 extra channels, sometimes called phantom channels in which say, the left speaker sends its signal to the left ear and then to  the right ear with a delay for the additional time to get across the head  (and vice versa for the right speaker).  Periodically someone comes up with a set-up to cancel the crossfeed /phantom channels.  Carver had an electronic system, and Polk built a series of speakers in which each box essentially has 2 speakers, one for the correct signal and the other for a cancellation signal for the opposite channel.  I have had the Polk SDA1 for years and it is quite effective over a fairly narrow listening location.  What does  it sound like?  Like headphones but in real space such that you almost think you can touch the performers.    Polk made these for about a decade and finally dropped the line in part because of resistance from audio dealers who didn't like having to handle fairly expensive speakers which made conventional speakers appear obsolete.
  
  
 For anyone interested here is a starting point http://www.polksda.com/


----------



## negura

arnaud said:


> We always think about headphone missing crossfeed to properly render soundstage but the interesting thing is the speaker stereo reproduction isn't perfect either as both speakers talk equallly to both ears. This is bound to limit perceived resolution, especially when adding reflected sounds from the room.


 
  
 THIS. Very much agreed.
  
 The speakers have an uphill battle to match resolution, but the presentation excels in realism imo. Past a certain point, however ultimate detail matters little. That said and despite this, I've heard speakers that at least match the 009s in resolution and transients.
  
 And also the mastering is done on studio monitors.


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## davidsh

edstrelow said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Never thougth of it that way, thank you for enlightening me!


----------



## realmassy

astrostar59 said:


> ...



Congratulations for the nice setup! And the sea view, of course 
I'm sure the Audio Note DAC makes a perfect match with the KGSSHV and the 009


----------



## astrostar59

Thanks Massy
  
 Yes, having some tubes in the amplification and / or rectification IMO takes it a bit closer to realism, not just looking good on the tech specs. I am not sure if I would go ALL SS, either phones or speaker systems. But you never know! I think to get to that point it would take serious money on a front end DAC like the MSB Analogue (which I have not heard) which is purported to be a none oversampling architecture. Maybe someone can chine in here about that?
  
 Tube DACs can be had for not so serious money, yet can offer a superb level of digital replay if well designed. Likewise, the KGST can do the same for not much money. Right now, I am very happy with my KGSShv, it actually sounds like a tube amp (in a good way).


----------



## djonny

Hi all ! When I tested the polarity of m-audio ie-40 to properly fix the cable I noticed that STAX SRM-007tA and SRM-212 have reverse (wrong. + and - are reversed) polarity with STAX 003, 404, 009 phones. But SRM-323A have proper polarity. I've done this tests by recording on mic negative and positive short square pulses from my acoustic system (proper polarity - from positive square pulse diaphragm moves to listener and creates pressure), STAX phones, Beyer DT770 and Senn ie-4 phones. Beyer DT770 and Senn ie-4 had proper polarity. Now when I changed the output polarity of STAX SRM-007tA and SRM-212 by resoldering + and - on output socket everything is OK! Nothing to say that I was very surprised when found this problem in STAX amplifiers!!! Also I think it's good idea to test the polarity of other amplifiers for STAX phones.


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## Farkhat

Meanwhile in Russia...
  
 Completed the second project of Dmitry aka Demograf - headphone amplifier for electrostatic headphones. 
 Amplifier is built on a tantalum tubes 3C24/24G 1943-1944 issue, USA, is constructed as a double single-ended. 
Power supply constructed on kenotron and executed in a separate unit, amp weighs approximately 15 kg., power unit weight of about 35 kg.. 
 Amplifier has separate outputs for dynamic headphone and external speaker. 
  
 The meeting was listening to all the higher models of the Stax and compare Stax sound of the new project with the amplifier/headphones Orpheus. Listening showed outstanding results of this new project. 
  
 Further details and characteristics will be later. 
  
See photos from the meting:
  
http://forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?showtopic=27179&st=75#entry655079
  
 Photos of a new project at my home, see here:
  
http://forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?showtopic=6257&st=10000#entry662560
  
 WBR,
  
 Farkhat


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## eric65

Hello, for information, here are several photographs transmitted by my Moscow friend Alex for the last production of Dmitri Gubchenko (father of the Demograf)
  
*New electrostatic amp by Dmitry Gubchenko with very powerful tantalum tubes*
  

  

  

  

  
*New electrostatic amp by Dmitry Gubchenko with very powerful tantalum tubes*
  
*Link :*
  
https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.doctorhead.ru%2Findex.php%3Fshowtopic%3D27179%26st%3D75&edit-text=
  
 and 
  
 http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178217448.html#p178217448


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## Demograf

Greetings to all the forum members of head-fi . I now have very little time, but a little later 
 I can provide information about unique projects.


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## Farkhat

demograf said:


> Greetings to all the forum members of head-fi . I now have very little time, but a little later
> I can provide information about unique projects.


 
  
 Hello, Friends! Hello, Dmitry!
  
 Let me introduce my friend - Dmitry Gubchenko aka Demograf from Moscow (Balashikha city). He is the author of amplifiers for electrostatic headphones, and many other high-end components. Last successful project Dmitry, he was working on a half-year - is built on the power of tantalum tubes.


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## JayM481

Lots of back reading here. My eyeballs are already both in one socket after a few dozen pages, let alone the many hundreds (thousands?) in the various Stax threads. 
  
 Anyway, after a lot of reading, I still have questions. They'd probably be answered with some patience and determination, but I have only so many years of life left 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm basically a speaker guy, and 'till now only use headphones rarely, and only started recently. As an electrostat speaker owner I gravitated to Stax, and managed to pick up a Lambda Pro/SRM-1/Mk2 set a while ago. A very different experience from speakers, but beguiling in it's own way. 
  
 From what I've read so far, it seems the consensus (or at least the majority view), is that amps make a significant difference with headphones, or at least that's the case with Stax earspeakers. Given that, and the combo I currently have, what would be a reasonable upgrade of the amp? I'm a bit of a valve/tube guy, though I'm not particular about it - my current preamp is valved, but my speaker amp is SS. I could see one of the Stax valve hybrids as having an advantage if driven directly from a digital source, but using my preamp? Note that I have a number of sources, so the preamp isn't negotiable.
  
 What about the earspeakers themselves? How do the Lambda Pros stand up to other Lambda variants, including the modern versions? If I'm looking to upgrade is there something to aspire to, or should I look at the new Omegas (007s, I can never justify 009s to myself or my wife)?
  
 Final question, I'm considering a second hi-fi setup for my "office" (inverted commas because it's more a closet). It's a small space, and I was originally thinking of a small pair of speakers configured nearfield, but after experiencing the above combo I think the Stax will be my choice. However, I'm limiting the budget a lot for this, as I have most of the necessary kit already. The most economical solution appears to be an energizer, rather than a full amp, as I have a couple of amp options (a 40W valve integrated, and a pair of Leak TL12+ valve monos are two options). New choices for energizers seem to be the Woo WEE (probably pushing the budget a lot for UK sourcing), with other options being vintage Stax energizers with pro bias. Are there any issues with these and valve amps? It may seem a silly question, but when it comes to hard-to-find or unobtanium output transformers this is a "better ask than try" situation.
  
 I'll undoubtedly have many more questions, and maybe some observations, as time goes by.


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## gepardcv

jaym481 said:


> What about the earspeakers themselves? How do the Lambda Pros stand up to other Lambda variants, including the modern versions? If I'm looking to upgrade is there something to aspire to, or should I look at the new Omegas (007s, I can never justify 009s to myself or my wife)?


 
 I don't have answers to most of your questions, but I will say this: there's a *huge* difference in the sound signature of the 007s compared to the 009s and the (current) Lambdas. It isn't some slight, subtle, barely audible thing: the 007 is way darker than any other Stax I heard (307, 009, original SR-Omega). I compared 007s and 009s side-by-side from a BHSE and from a LL2T prototype, and found it startling. There's far more difference between the 007 and the 009 than there is between the 007Mk1 and 007Mk2, or the 009 from a BHSE and the 009 from a KGSSHV. Honestly, I thought the 307 sounds more like the 009 than the 007.


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## davidsh

How do you like the 307 in general?


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## gepardcv

I've been thinking about the sound signature of the SR-007, and how well it would interact with older recordings. I generally prefer the brighter sound of the SR-009 and the Lambda series, but that really just extends to relatively recent, well-recorded music.
  
 When it comes to older stuff, especially pre-stereo, I find that high-end gear makes it sound even worse and more harsh than cheap speakers or earbuds. I'm thinking Yehudi Menuhin records from the 1950s, the original Rachmaninov playing Rachmaninov from the 1920s, and even older stereo recordings from the 1960s and 1970s. Perhaps a dark, non-super-revealing headphone like the SR-007 could sweeten the sound? (I don't have access to one to compare.) Does anyone here who listens to older "classical" recordings have experience on making them sound less fatiguing and more, well, "hi-fi"?


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## gepardcv

davidsh said:


> How do you like the 307 in general?


 
 It's excellent. It's a Stax, and we're on the Stax thread, so I'm obviously a fan. 
  
 I never compared it to the 407 or 507, but I can tell you that the 307 sounds great. Not out-of-this-world-spectacular like the 009, but the 307 is rich, detailed, and very pleasant to listen to. It's fairly comfortable, once you figure out how to adjust it to your head (the rectangular cups can be weird, depending on your skull's shape).


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## JayM481

gepardcv said:


> I've been thinking about the sound signature of the SR-007, and how well it would interact with older recordings. I generally prefer the brighter sound of the SR-009 and the Lambda series, but that really just extends to relatively recent, well-recorded music.
> 
> When it comes to older stuff, especially pre-stereo, I find that high-end gear makes it sound even worse and more harsh than cheap speakers or earbuds. I'm thinking Yehudi Menuhin records from the 1950s, the original Rachmaninov playing Rachmaninov from the 1920s, and even older stereo recordings from the 1960s and 1970s. Perhaps a dark, non-super-revealing headphone like the SR-007 could sweeten the sound? (I don't have access to one to compare.) Does anyone here who listens to older "classical" recordings have experience on making them sound less fatiguing and more, well, "hi-fi"?


 
 Here I can contribute, I think. The issue with older recordings is that the "master" (be it tape, shellac master disc or other master) rarely will have any musical info above 15kHz, and often nothing higher than 7kHz for the really old stuff, other than noise. In this case I think the source would be the culprit, as most modern sources, even modern LPs, will have capabilities far above that in the HF. The Stax will only reproduce what they're fed, so the "harsh" is captured in the recording. 
  
 The way I make older recordings sound less fatiguing is to use suitable playback kit - in my case it's usually a record player with a suitable cartridge/stylus/phono preamp combo playing the original big black disc. CD/digital transcriptions of the older stuff rely on the quality of the transcription, and though there are many dedicated engineers out there who do that, there are many who aren't as dedicated, and even the dedicated ones may transcribe some noise because the loss of musical content may be greater than the benefit of noise reduction. Many a wonderful recording in 78 sounds flat and lifeless when transcribed if the engineer is too heavy-handed with the de-click and other noise reduction.


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## FrankCooter

demograf said:


> Greetings to all the forum members of head-fi . I now have very little time, but a little later
> 
> I can provide information about unique projects.



 


Welcome to Head-Fi !

I'm curious about your amp. I've played around with DHT's in electrostatic amps myself. 

Perhaps it's just a translation issue, but the 3C24 is not a power tube as Eric implies. It's more like a directly-heated 6SN7.


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## n3rdling

jaym481 said:


> Lots of back reading here. My eyeballs are already both in one socket after a few dozen pages, let alone the many hundreds (thousands?) in the various Stax threads.
> 
> Anyway, after a lot of reading, I still have questions. They'd probably be answered with some patience and determination, but I have only so many years of life left
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would probably try to upgrade to the SR-007 if looking for a major upgrade.  The Lambda Pros are excellent, but they really don't sound that much different on various amps IMO.  If you find the top end a bit harsh, you can change your amp to a SRM-T1 and that could help things a little.  You'd notice a pretty drastic difference going to the SR-007 though, and the SRM-1 should be fine driving it.  If you find yourself really loving the SR-007's sound you can always upgrade your amp later, as those headphones like as much power as you can throw at them.  Try to demo a pair of 007's if you can.
  
 Quick rundown of differences:
 Lambda Pro: A little bright, medium sized soundstage with large vertical images, nice mid bass kick with sub bass roll off, slightly scooped mids
 SR-007: A little dark (especially on less powerful amps), soundstage size varies a bit with recording but for the most part it's a little smaller than the L-Pros, imaging possibly the best of any headphone, sub bass goes deep with very little roll off, mids are more forward, upper mids/lower treble has a dip that makes even poor recordings sound good but can make certain instruments sound off at certain notes (trumpet doesn't have much bite), treble is pristine.
  


gepardcv said:


> I've been thinking about the sound signature of the SR-007, and how well it would interact with older recordings. I generally prefer the brighter sound of the SR-009 and the Lambda series, but that really just extends to relatively recent, well-recorded music.
> 
> When it comes to older stuff, especially pre-stereo, I find that high-end gear makes it sound even worse and more harsh than cheap speakers or earbuds. I'm thinking Yehudi Menuhin records from the 1950s, the original Rachmaninov playing Rachmaninov from the 1920s, and even older stereo recordings from the 1960s and 1970s. Perhaps a dark, non-super-revealing headphone like the SR-007 could sweeten the sound? (I don't have access to one to compare.) Does anyone here who listens to older "classical" recordings have experience on making them sound less fatiguing and more, well, "hi-fi"?


 
  
 It's one of my favorite headphones for this exact reason.  I can listen to music on youtube all day with it and a lot of the nasties will stay in the background.  It's a pretty unique headphone in this regard...usually headphones that do this are pretty crappy, but the 007 manages to make almost anything sound pretty damn good.


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## zolkis

I should note that though the 007 mk1 sounds indeed darker than the Lambdas, they are more 'shouty' and I prefer the 007. The 009 is more open without being shouty. That said, with the modded pads my 007 sounds more open than my TH900, with better treble, too, with slightly less, but bigger feeling bass. To me it just sounds wonderful, with no trace of treble haze or shininess, super revealing and musical.

The current form of the mod is replacing the lower hard foam part of the original pad insert with 100% wool felt ring of same thickness, getting rid of the spring, eventually trimming very slightly the upper part in the front side for even more open sound, and in my case mod the leather part to allow for a slightly bigger opening. Plus, adjusting the arc correctly, starting with a shape like the arc of the 009.

I also have a hunch that the openness of the 009 is partly due to its shallower pads with bigger opening. I am waiting for a 009 replacement pad to test this hypothesis with the 007.

Of course in stock form the 009 blows others out of the water. I can only imagine what a modded 009 could do...  Judged by the direction pads seem to change sound, they could sound even better with slightly deeper pads.


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## Demograf

actually these lamps 3C24 1960 volts full amplitude in the se scheme and 3900 volts in push-pull scheme . I think that it is enough for good control of any electrostatic . when the anode voltage is applied 1380 volts .


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## milosz

edstrelow said:


> I am always surprised that in a headphone forum people think cross-feed between speakers is a good feature.  Crossfeed is simply an artifact which  messes up the stereo cues present in the signal, which in commercial material are primarily interaural amplitude differences, i.e. loudness differences between the two signals. Speaker crossfeed creates 2 extra channels, sometimes called phantom channels in which say, the left speaker sends its signal to the left ear and then to  the right ear with a delay for the additional time to get across the head  (and vice versa for the right speaker).  Periodically someone comes up with a set-up to cancel the crossfeed /phantom channels.  Carver had an electronic system, and Polk built a series of speakers in which each box essentially has 2 speakers, one for the correct signal and the other for a cancellation signal for the opposite channel.  I have had the Polk SDA1 for years and it is quite effective over a fairly narrow listening location.  What does  it sound like?  Like headphones but in real space such that you almost think you can touch the performers.    Polk made these for about a decade and finally dropped the line in part because of resistance from audio dealers who didn't like having to handle fairly expensive speakers which made conventional speakers appear obsolete.
> 
> 
> For anyone interested here is a starting point http://www.polksda.com/


 
 Look into  http://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/PureStereo/Pure_Stereose4.html   http://masisaudio.com/bacch/thesolutions/bacchsp/   etc


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## zolkis

milosz said:


> Look into  http://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/PureStereo/Pure_Stereose4.html   http://masisaudio.com/bacch/thesolutions/bacchsp/   etc


 
  
 Did you mean http://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/Publications/Pure_Stereo.pdf
 This is impressive. Especially #20.


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## milosz

zolkis said:


> Did you mean http://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/Publications/Pure_Stereo.pdf
> This is impressive. Especially #20.


 
 That also  which is the theoretical paper
  
  
http://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/PureStereo/Pure_Stereose4.html   links to http://masisaudio.com/   the Asia distributor for this system, also a US / Europe distributor as well http://www.theoretica.us/


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## djonny

davidsh said:


> How do you like the 307 in general?


 
 407 (404) much better than 307. The cable in 407 have much less capacity and much better quality of made and copper.


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## JayM481

Thanks for the answers and info so far. 
  
 One question I'm pondering is whether the adapter/energizers are neutral? In other words, do they reveal the character of the amp, or impart their own signature? Also, what sort of load do they present to valve/tube amps? 
  
 As I mentioned in my first post, I'm considering an energizer as a budget solution to using my earspeakers in a second system.


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## allets

I'm joining the Stax Mafia with the SRS-3170 system. I can't wait!


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## gepardcv

So is the SR-307 different from the 507, other than the $100 leather earpads? The Stax USA site says it has the same driver.


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## allets

gepardcv said:


> So is the SR-307 different from the 507, other than the $100 leather earpads? The Stax USA site says it has the same driver.


 
 SR-307 = 340 g, 132 Ohms, 101 dB/mW
 SR-507 = 388 g, 145 Ohms, 118 dB/mW


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## Jones Bob

SR-307 = 132k Ohms, 101dB/100Vrms@1kHz

SR-507 = 145k Ohms, 100dB/100Vrms@1kHz

FIFY


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## gepardcv

Thanks, got it. In other news, someone told me that the 323S 240V version works if you just plug it into a North American power outlet. How is this at all possible?! Does it do any harm? I found instructions on an earlier Stax thread for resoldering a 323S for 120V, but I'm not 100% confident mucking around in a high-voltage device like an electrostatic amplifier. (Or I'd just jump into building a KGSSHV.)


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## kevin gilmore

nope. However if its the 240v version then none of the wires on the transformer have been cut like
 the 100v only versions, and then you re-wire it for 120v which is easy.


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## dripf

Hi Kevin,
  
 How do we quantify the performance of an electrostat amplifier? What unit of measurement should be used?
  
 Also, as it is a seeming consensus that the SR-007 has greater amplification requirements, how do we measure this? It specifies the same 100dB / 100V r.m.s. 1 kHz and a lower capacitance relative to other models.
  
 Regards.


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## gepardcv

kevin gilmore said:


> nope. However if its the 240v version then none of the wires on the transformer have been cut like
> the 100v only versions, and then you re-wire it for 120v which is easy.



Thank you for your comment, Kevin, but I don't understand — do you mean "no, plugging the 240 V version into an American outlet won't work", or "no, it won't do any harm to plug the 240 V version into an American outlet"? If it's the latter, then I just don't understand how the amp could possibly work at all, as I have been assured (on another forum) it does.


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## kevin gilmore

The + and -350 supplies will end up at +/-175  so it will make some music.
 but the bias will be off, the voltage range will be off etc. Person obviously
 has no clue.


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## milosz

jaym481 said:


> Thanks for the answers and info so far.
> 
> One question I'm pondering is whether the adapter/energizers are neutral? In other words, do they reveal the character of the amp, or impart their own signature? Also, what sort of load do they present to valve/tube amps?
> 
> As I mentioned in my first post, I'm considering an energizer as a budget solution to using my earspeakers in a second system.


 
 I tried an SRD-7 adapter on a number of different amps - tube and solid state- using SR-007 and Lambda Signature 'phones.  I did hear differences between the amplifiers. Kind of the same differences I heard from those amplifiers when driving speakers. 
  
 Is the SRD-7 ALSO imparting a sonic character, in addition to what the amplifier brings to the party?  Yes, I would guess it does add some contribution to the sound.  Is an SRD-7 "more netural" than a Stax amp?  I don't know that you could really ever answer that. When I used the SRD-7 with a good amp, it sounded great.  That's all I could conclude.  My SRM-T1 sounds great too.  I think the T1 sounds a bit more "refined" than any of the amp-and-SRD-7 combos I tried, but I didn't do any blind A/B tests.


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## astrostar59

dripf said:


> Hi Kevin,
> 
> How do we quantify the performance of an electrostat amplifier? What unit of measurement should be used?
> 
> ...


 
 You don't need to measure it to be convinced, us your ears. Anyone who has heard the 007s against the 009s and even the 507s will hear it needs more current to sing. The design of the drivers in the 007 was the first real attempt IMHO where Stax addressed the 'rest of the world' taste for some real bass, as apposed to transparency only. Maybe this was partly why it needed more current? The 007s is a great headphone, it was possibly a problem for Stax that none of their amplifiers available to the real public (no T2) was really capable of doing it any justice.


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## kothganesh

astrostar59 said:


> You don't need to measure it to be convinced, us your ears. Anyone who has heard the 007s against the 009s and even the 507s will hear it needs more current to sing. The design of the drivers in the 007 was the first real attempt IMHO where Stax addressed the 'rest of the world' taste for some real bass, as apposed to transparency only. Maybe this was partly why it needed more current? *The 007s is a great headphone, it was possibly a problem for Stax that none of their amplifiers available to the real public (no T2) was really capable of doing it any justice. *


 
 +1. Which is when Geoff stepped in.......


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## astrostar59

> +1. Which is when Geoff stepped in.......


 
  
 True. And hats off to Kevin G for his wisdom and generousity to the DIY community. I wonder if Stax have 'given up' the desire to market a Stat amp that aligns with their 007 and 009s? Even the lower models sound MUCH better when driven well by a BHSE or KGSShv. I have not heard the Woo Audio amps or the Eddie Current, but would bet they do the same as well.
  
 Maybe Stax is still a small niche company who make probably the worlds best headphones. There are high end speaker manufacturers who don't make amplifiers, and who demo their gear with amps they deem having some synergy with their gear. I would think the market size for the 007s and 009s isn't big enough for Stax to survive, and they have to sell a 'system' with the headphones to be attractive to the general public.
  
 It is interesting, that even with their IMO poor attempts at amplifiers, their headphone systems still sell well against none stats. It shows just how good the electrostatic headphones really are IMO.


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## dripf

I esteem the 3170 I use very highly. I'm after good knowledge of what I enjoy.
  
  
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> It is interesting, that even with their IMO poor attempts at amplifiers


 
  
 Just recently you were confused over the topology of the BH. To be honest, you would be sent packing from any other hobby forum that did not involve audio.


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## astrostar59

> Just recently you were confused over the topology of the BH


 
 Ehh? The BH is a KG amplifier, seems not relevant here. You know, you don't NEED to know the technicalities of this or that amplifier if you rate them with your ears.
 The Stax 717 was not so bad an amp, but the cost v performance is not so good IMO. Better can be had IMO by going DIY or other none Stax amp routes. I spent 20 years 'stopping' at the SRM-313. I had to dig around the forums to realise there were other alternatives, and that is what makes these forums and this hobby so good.


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## 3X0

What is so fundamentally wrong with the topology of modern Stax amplifiers excepting non-NFB (727) and unregulated power supplies (virtually everything else)?

I would agree they are overpriced, but I think the same for all electrostatic driver units, first-party or third-party -- be it overhead, base cost of the BOM or some combination of the two.


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## kevin gilmore

nothing wrong with the topology of current stax amps, and the 727 can be fixed and pretty easy too.
 The issue with unreg power supplies is that of size. Cramming a fully regulated supply inside the
 same size box is a big problem. And the extra heat is a problem too. Much easier to put big
 external heatsinks on the box instead of inside the box.


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## dreame77

Hello to everyone!
 Sorry for the stupid and probably frequently asked questions. 
  
 For now I used dynamic and planar-magnetic headphones, and have interest in electrostats. 
 Currently I have Hifiman HE-400 on Schiit Modi+Magni, followed by Beyerdynamic T1 on Bottlehead Crack OTL. 
  
 I was thinking about Stax 2170 system, or 3170 as comparable headphones in price. 
 Would it be step up, or something else?


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## n3rdling

I think it'll be a pretty nice upgrade but I very much dislike the T1 so basically any electrostat would be an upgrade over that HP in my eyes.


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## djonny

dreame77 said:


> I was thinking about Stax 2170 system, or 3170 as comparable headphones in price.
> Would it be step up, or something else?


 
 I think better if you buy SR-407 and SRM-323. I have this system and it sounds good. But sometimes all stax phones needs a little bass boost at equalizer (I'm using foobar2000). I cannot recommend you 2170 system and 006 amp.


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## jcx

astrostar59 said:


> dripf said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Kevin,
> ...


 
   
 Electrostats aren't like dynamic headphones - amp current capability has nothing to do with bass - only Vswing does
  
 Quote:


jcx said:


> Electrostats do react differently to increased current than the expectation formed from experience with dynamic transducers
> 
> Bass doesn't require current to speak of in ES headphones - for electrostats more current increases slew rate - ability to push high V amplitude at high frequency - not Bass
> 
> ...


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## dripf

Thank you jcx.
  
 Would the ideal measurement be V/us @ 100 pF 20 kHz?
  
 Is it possible to calculate the peak linear SPL of these amplifiers using their stated maximum output voltage @ 1 kHz?
  
 Regards.


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## jcx

depends on your goal - its a signal you wouldn't want to listen to
  
 but it would separate out some ES amps from others
  
 that's the point of my music "power bandwidth" comment - above ~3kHz (~highest fundamental of  acoustic tonal musical instruments) the signal level in most music drops faster than the frequency rises, meaning the signal slew rate doesn't get any higher
  
 even percussion is somewhat rounded, seldom has full amplitude and instant rise time - but that is where you would listen for a difference in ES amps vs output current capability
  
  
 outputs that run at only a small fraction of their bias current can be more linear - another good reason for higher operating current than the minimum demanded by music averages
  
 but whether you can hear differences in ES amps nonlinear distortion below slew limiting, clipping is not a simple 1:1 function of output bias current


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## Ra97oR

Got my SRM-727A for a while now, just wonder what is the "fix" on the 727 all about?


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## Ali-Pacha

This : http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/15450#post_7428329
  
 Ali


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## DolphinG

Hello, I heard that STAX is going to launch a new amp model, but I could not find any information about that.
 Is there anybody who can tell me any information of new STAX amp?


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## Ali-Pacha

Follow Arnaud, Frenchman in Tokyo, who has regular contacts with Stax :
http://www.head-fi.org/t/718268/tokyo-2014-spring-fujiya-avic-headphone-festival-impressions/30#post_10543185
On a french forum, he said Stax frozes amp's developpment because far too expensive for the SQ improvement.
To be continued...

Ali


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## David1961

dolphing said:


> Hello, I heard that STAX is going to launch a new amp model, but I could not find any information about that.
> Is there anybody who can tell me any information of new STAX amp?




Birgir might be able to tell you that, but I've not seen him on head-fi for quite sometime.


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## Ali-Pacha

My bad, maybe you are talking about SRM-252s' successor, with DAC included (presented at CES 2014).

Ali


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## arnaud

Apparently, Stax Japan did not really control the display of the prototype shown at ces with integrated DAC. It would appear to be driven by the parent company. Not sure if that project went ahead finally, fall headphone festival is in October...


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## DolphinG

Thanks for the information.
 I was talking about new amp presented at CES 2014 (Amp + USB DAC)
 Well, I think that it looks awesome for me but, as you guys are talking I should wait and see a little longer.


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## astrostar59

ra97or said:


> Got my SRM-727A for a while now, just wonder what is the "fix" on the 727 all about?


 
 The mod was covered by spritzer (Birgir) a while back. It is quite simple to do, if you are ok with a soldering iron. A few connections on the boards and your done.
 It removes the None Feedback part of the circuit that wrecked the sound (not heard it, only quoting the posts by those who know / have heard it).
 I own the 717 and with the 009s it is a good amp, plenty of drive, and by modding the 727 you can make it sounds very close to the better 717 amp.
  
 BTW this would not be recommended inside the warranty period. Otherwise, I would go for it.
 Hope this helps.


----------



## astrostar59

> Electrostats aren't like dynamic headphones - amp current capability has nothing to do with bass - only Vswing does


 
 Hmm, best ask Kevin G that question. I have to disagree IMO. A KGSShv with 5.5 Ma (on board version) will sound different to the off board version at 10 Ma. Kevin confirmed that in a post on the other site. And of course voltage swing is part of the story. Component quality, resistors, transformer quality, design of the amp itself, silver wiring or not, type of Fetts used. I don't need to go on do I? It ALL matters. The KGSShv has TONS more drive and bass energy than say the Stax SRM-717 on both 007s and 009s. Is that voltage, amps, parts quality, design of the circuits. Yes to all those points I think. I am not an amp designer, but I can hear the difference.


----------



## kevin gilmore

The load is a capacitor.  So at 100hz for example the effective load of the headphones is -J13M
 but a 20khz its -J66K. So for low frequencies the current capabilities are virtually zero, but at
 20khz its about 5ma with 450V power supplies.
  
 So you want the bias to be at least 5.5ma to keep the output stage in class A at all times.
  
 my new beast is 20ma at +/-600v power supplies.


----------



## NoPants

can I mount it to my stove so I can scramble eggs with it


----------



## negura

nopants said:


> can I mount it to my stove so I can scramble eggs with it


 
  

  
 And not joking about it. With the two weeks English summer gone, I am pleased I can once again use my class A speaker amplifier at any time of the day. Even a mighty headphones beast such as this should be no problems.
  
 Mister Gilmore please do tell us how you think the 20mA beast fares sound quality wise.


----------



## astrostar59

It sounds kinda nuts doesn't it, that we need all these volts and amps to power a tiny micro thin Stax driver.
  
 The amount of heat my KGSShv pumps out is not so far behind my 125 Watt Class A speaker amp.
  
 I can only begin to understand how a power amp can be capable of driving electrostatic speaker panels?


----------



## kevin gilmore

go and find pictures of the accoustat direct drive amplifiers.
 they were about 2 feet wide, 1 foot deep and 1 foot high and
 were about 350 watts each. I owned a pair for quite a while.
 great rock and roll speakers. Played amazingly loud.


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## eric65

Hello,
  
 Believe it or not (it's your problem, but you can not know for sure until you will not listen to by yourself) the combo AudioValve RKV-Verto exceeds in term of sound quality both the two High-End amplifiers STAX SRM 007t and SRM 727, by the smoothly, beauty, fineness and fullness of sound, with a listening pleasure and a beauty of tone (timbre) quite exceptional, while remaining similar at these two STAX amps in term of transparency and clarity. 
 Besides the possibility of a future evolution towards a (hypothetical) mk2 version of the Verto box with a definition and transparency still further (ultimate?). 
 Work is underway on this. 

 (see link for more information : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178225018.html#p178225018)
  

  

  
 Eric


----------



## n3rdling

Yawn


----------



## eric65

Not curious ?


----------



## wink

Not really...


----------



## davidsh

It's a transformer.. Like all the others I suppose?


----------



## eric65

Better, much better, because optimized (coupled to an amplifier OTL as the RKV-II amp).
  
 Otherwise, leave your preconceptions about RKV amp and Verto box, otherwise you will miss something very interesting to listen.
  
 PS :
 Verto box (normal version) with 1:5.9 optimized transformers.
 Verto box mk2 (hypothetical version) with switchable transformers for even greater transparency and definition.


----------



## arnaud

And, it's hypothetically the best amplifier in the world! eh


----------



## David1961

IMO, Eric's posts will be great to read for those that suffer with insomnia.


----------



## eric65

arnaud said:


> And, it's hypothetically the best amplifier in the world! eh


 
  
 Well, Arnaud, I speak here of the combo RKV-Verto.
  
 Indeed, the "MK2 version" of the Verto box (with its switchable transformers) is, to date, hypothetical.
 Maybe you'll see one day, who knows?. I work for this purpose.
  
 On the other hand, the experimental version of Wee (Eric65 moded) is real, and its transparency, presence, definition and precision are formidable; competing amps: well must be held !
  
 Finally, the versatility of the Verto (even more with a mk2 version) is unparalleled: try to drive an Ortho or electrodynamics headphone with an amplifier Stax, you tell me the news.
  
  
 PS : the best combo in the world ? (and also the more expensive). No.
  
 Instead, look toward Sennheiser and the release of a (hypothetical) system Orpheus mk2 in 2015 for the seventieth anniversary of the brand.


----------



## RiStaR

I think why everyone is tiring is because you're continually pushing RKV stuff... It's like you're working for them?


----------



## eric65

I'm a simple amateur. I work pro bono.
 My profession is doctor.
 No harm to speak well of something good, I hope?


----------



## RiStaR

eric65 said:


> I'm a simple amateur. I work pro bono.
> My profession is doctor.
> No harm to speak well of something good, I hope?


 
  
 Well... look at it this way. If you think something is good you want it to do well. What do you think is happening with the way you're approaching this now? Don't you see that you're potentially harming RKV more than you're helping it?
  
 You're basically yelling at a group of folks who have owned Stax gear for so long and have gone through all the amplifier upgrades available (and KG has designed so many of them). You come yelling without any measurements but your ears and you demand to be taken seriously. You're not creating a religion here... everyone has their own ears in this case.
  
 Anyways, we get it. RKV is the best Stax amp you've heard. Period. Just like the Megatron is the best Stax amp I've heard. There's little need to regurgitate so many times that everyone does not want to know anything more about RKV. So it's no longer pro bono, if you think about it. It can be argued that you're a cost-centre [after my last post I just chanced upon your other thread.] instead of just 50 Euro... you're costing them potential business.
  
 Anyways no offence man... just trying to lay it out for you and basically to let you know that chilling out a tad on RKV stuff may bring you closer to your goal... I remember this quote from Ghandi ..."In a gentle way, you can shake the world." I'm sharing that with you... just cause I think it makes sense here in this case.


----------



## paradoxper

eric65 said:


> I'm a simple amateur. I work pro bono.
> My profession is doctor.
> No harm to speak well of something good, I hope? @


 
  
 Discounts! DIscounts!! DISCOUNTS!!!


----------



## eric65

> eric65 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a simple amateur. I work pro bono.
> ...


 
  
 Correction : " I'm a simple amateur. I work pro bono " --> read : " I work for free (and independently) in the audio forums (Head-Fi and HCFR) "
  
 "You come yelling without any measurements but your ears and you demand to be taken seriously "
  
 Not really. If you reread my posts you will see that I made a lot of measures; too many measures say some who think I spend more time measuring than listening...


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## JayM481

I just discovered there's a "block member" function. The SNR has improved a great deal.


----------



## RiStaR

eric65 said:


> Correction : " I'm a simple amateur. I work pro bono " --> read : " I work for free (and independently) in the audio forums (Head-Fi and HCFR) "
> 
> "You come yelling without any measurements but your ears and you demand to be taken seriously "
> 
> Not really. If you reread my posts you will see that I made a lot of measures; too many measures say some who think I spend more time measuring than listening...


 
  
 I guess you don't get the point I was trying to make on pro bono. Anyways I've said my piece. Carry on doing what you want to do.
  
 In terms of measurements... for amplifiers it's mainly to do with a scope... or something that lets you chart out freq response effectively. I don't think I've seen either of those from you. There's nothing wrong with not owning them (I can't afford to keep those handy), but I don't go round saying I've measured performance with my DMM also.
  
 Life goes on


----------



## eric65

If you are a lover of measures, here are a few: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
*Objective response : in Volt and relative gain in dB / frequency, from amplifier RKV-II, combo RKV-Wee and RKV-Verto*

*Combo RKV-Wee (unmodified)*
Output RKV = Input Wee = 0.20 Volt (at 1 kHz)
Output Wee = 0.20 Volt x 50 = 10 Volt (at 1 kHz) (with 1:50 Wee transformers)

My results are as follows: for 6 distinct frequencies (250 Hz 500 Hz 1 kHz; 2 kHz; 5 kHz; 10 kHz). Voltage measured, depending on the frequency, in input of the Wee (and therefore in output of the RKV) with the Wee transformers 1:50 connected, and with for load an electrostatic headphones Stax SR-009 145000 Ohm of impedance.

Signal sinus 250 Hz : 0.205 V (relative gain : 0 dB)
Signal sinus 500 Hz : 0.203 V (relative gain : 0 dB)
Signal sinus 1 kHz : 0.201 V (relative gain : 0 dB)
Signal sinus 2 kHz : 0.193 V (relative gain : - 0.3 dB) (to compare to the +2 dB of Kevin Gilmore graph)
Signal sinus 5 kHz : 0.160 V (relative gain : - 1.9 dB) (to compare to the -4 dB of Kevin Gilmore graph)
Signal sinus 10 kHz : 0.115 V (relative gain : - 4.8 dB) (to compare to the -17 dB of Kevin Gilmore graph)
http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/rkv.jpg


*Combo RKV-Verto*
Output RKV = Input Verto = 1.69 Volt (at 1 kHz)
Output Verto = 1.69 Volt x 5.9 = 10 Volt (at 1 kHz) (with 1:5.9 Verto transformers)

Signal sinus 250 Hz : 1.692 V (relative gain : 0 dB)
Signal sinus 500 Hz : 1.681 V (relative gain : 0 dB)
Signal sinus 1 kHz : 1.666 V (relative gain : 0 dB)
Signal sinus 2 kHz : 1.614 V (relative gain : - 0.3 dB) (to compare to the +2 dB of Kevin Gilmore graph)
Signal sinus 5 kHz : 1.354 V (relative gain : - 1.8 dB) (to compare to the -4 dB of Kevin Gilmore graph)
Signal sinus 10 kHz : 0.965 V (relative gain : - 4.7 dB) (to compare to the -17 dB of Kevin Gilmore graph)
http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/rkv.jpg


*Combo RKV-Wee (modified) (1:50 Wee transformers disabled)*
Output RKV = Input Wee = Output Wee = 10 Volt (at 1 kHz) (without 1:50 Wee transformers)

Signal sinus 250 Hz : 9.980 V (relative gain : 0 dB)
Signal sinus 500 Hz : 10.00 V (relative gain : 0 dB)
Signal sinus 1 kHz : 10.00 V (relative gain : 0 dB)
Signal sinus 2 kHz : 10.01 V (relative gain : 0dB) 
Signal sinus 5 kHz : 10.01 V (relative gain : 0 dB) 
Signal sinus 10 kHz : 10.21 V (relative gain : + 0.2 dB)
  
  
If the transformer (1:50 of the Wee box) is indeed seriously rolling off the mid highs with the RKV-II amp and SR-009 headphones, how we explain that we obtain the same results of measurement (at the microphone), under the same conditions, with the amplifiers for electrostatic headphones Stax : SRM-007t 2 and SRM-727 (a priori devoid of transformers)?

B: *comparison of 009 headphones with amps RKV-WEE (unmodified) / SRM 727 / SRM 007t2 (NB: level benchmark standard for amplifiers: 73 dBA SPL at 1 kHz with the 009)
 free-field measurements* :

Dans l'ordre des colonnes : ampli RKV-Wee (non modifié) / ampli SRM 727 / ampli SRM 007t2 
(mesures réalisées il y a un peu plus d'un an lors du prêt du sonomètre de Pierre avec son SRM 007t2)

500 Hz : 73,2 dBA / 73,0 dBA / 73,3 dBA
1 KHz : 73,0 dBA / 73,0 dBA / 73,0 dBA
2 KHz : 75,0 dBA / 75,0 dBA / 75,5 dBA
5 KHz : 71,5 dBA / 67,7 dBA / 68,2 dBA
10 KHz : 76,5 dBA / 69,9 dBA / 71,0 dBA
12.5 KHz : 62,0 dBA / 56,0 dBA / 61,0 dBA

Conclusion : significant roll-of at 12.5 KHz (relative to the frequency control 1 KHz) with the three amplifiers RKV-WEE / SRM 727 / SRM 007t2 + Stax 009.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/2835#post_10762363
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/2820#post_10759879
  
  
 Life goes on, effectively


----------



## wink

Quote:RiStaR 





> Life goes on


 
 Anything you say will be just like water off a duck's back.
 Block function is indicated here.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Have learnt an english idiom today. Stax thread rules da worldZ.

 Ali


----------



## RiStaR

Ok I don't intend to get into a discussion with someone who isn't listening.
  
 So far, you've just proven everything that I've said. You're doing things zealously and with a DMM and a microphone (have you seen the stuff arnaud models with a simulated head/listening test environment?). Really? Worse, the graphs which show how things perform are created by KG. For someone who loves to measure, you're also not even consistent with what you're doing.
  
 So what are you trying to explore? The outputs of the RKV amplifier when different step-up transformers are paired to it? Why not measure what's at the output of the transformers (I mean that's what you're using to power your headphones?) You don't expect the various transformers (built to a cost) to be perfect do you? You're also not able to measure distortion from the transformers (which I would think is a major factor since you're talking about how great it sounds?) And why can't you even keep the test parameters consistent (why all the different output voltages from your amplifier? Cherry picking the voltages that will make your case look better?)
  
 So what has your measurements accomplished except give more questions than answers? I really don't get it, I'm just some guy who derives enjoyment from things I've built (better if it performs well against commercial products). Don't worry, I won't be responding to your future posts. I'm pulling the same line from you "Megatron is the ****z. Period."


----------



## RiStaR

wink said:


> Anything you say will be just like water off a duck's back.
> Block function is indicated here.


 
  
 I'm starting to get it wink (no pun intended 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) 
  
 I won't block him... I just won't respond... I'll just have to trust myself with that


----------



## kevin gilmore

eric65 said:


> *SPECS: OTL mode: (RKV-III amp, OTL mode)*
> 
> power output:  5,8 watt - 220 ohm load - ( 1% THD )
> max. output voltage 100 VAC / 2kohms load
> ...


 
 lets look at this mess for a minute.
 max voltage 100 VAC (peak to peak!) into 2000 ohms.  This I agree with.
 I measured it. Any higher voltage swing and the amp happily violates
 the cathode to filament voltage spec for the output tubes. And from some
 of Mikhail's creations, we know what happens when you do that.
  
 power output 5.8 watts into 220 ohms load. Do the calculations and its
 the same exact 100 VAC peak to peak. Not possible. I measured it.
 Less than 1 watt. And way more than 1% THD.
  
 Which gets us to that Ri. what output level is this measured at?
 Doing the calculations and it is about 150 nanowatts. Not really
 of much use is it.
  
  
 Schiit just published their numbers for the ragnarok
 power: 60 watts rms into 8 ohms, 100 watts rms into 4 ohms
 output resistance .03 ohms.
  
 So you are a physician, with all those years of school and you
 are going to tell me that the magical RKV is capable of 1/3
 the impedance of the ragnarok.
  
 Really?
  
 How about that bandwidth spec. There is no opamp you can
 stuff in that circuit that will provide enough closed loop gain
 to make that anywhere near flat to 150khz. How many db down
 at 150khz.  60db, 70db... More useless information.
  
RiStaR is correct. You are doing way more damage to your cause
 by mixing apples, oranges and grapefruit.
  
 Your voltage measurements above are completely useless as
 no one listens that quiet.
  
 And speaking of mixing your vegetables, you cannot drive a stax
 headphone single ended as you have said in the past.
 only the RKV III which is balanced can do that. And its good for
 an absolute max of 400 volts peak to peak stator to stator in otl mode.
 way off the mark compared to many of the electrostatic amps
 out there which do 1600 to 2400 volts peak to peak stator to
 stator.
  
 And wink actually does know what he is talking about.
 That comes from some well aged brain cells.


----------



## NoPants

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the empty specs if there wasn't that first post with the ABX paper slips


----------



## Chozart

A new Stax owner here (well, actually so new it's being shipped as we speak). We're talking Vintage Stax here (SRA-3S amp and SR-X MK2 headphones).
  
 I'll share my experiences once they're here and hooked up.


----------



## John Buchanan

chozart said:


> A new Stax owner here (well, actually so new it's being shipped as we speak). We're talking Vintage Stax here (SRA-3S amp and SR-X MK2 headphones).
> 
> I'll share my experiences once they're here and hooked up.


 
 That SRA-3s is a nice amp. I preferred it to the SRA-12s I had at the time I heard it.


----------



## astrostar59

Welcome my friend to the weird and wonderful world of Stax Earspeakers! We are an odd bunch but bond very well with our love of all things Stax.
 I got my first Stax system aboput 30 years ago, a Lambda Normal Bias and an SRD-7 energiser. I sounded great, better than my speakers from the same power amp.
  
 I would check the caps in your amp are A OK. It depends on how much it's been used. Take of the top case and look for leaks or bloated cases.
 Also any other signs of damage to the boards or the transformer leaking. Are the fuses ok (no corrosion).
  
 It would in any case be cheap to re-cap it, si if it works now, you are onto a winner I would say.
  
 Check out a Spritzer post at the 'other site'. Search in Google for SRA-3S stax


----------



## milosz

Here's my new transformer-based Stax "adapter" box- (technician not included)
  

  
 ....and the amplifier to drive it


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## astrostar59

What are you eating? Can I have some?


----------



## kevin gilmore

But But, that's mono. You need 2 of them.
Given that the step up ratio would be 5 to 10, they should be
perfect, and very efficient. Designed for ultra low leakage
inductance etc...


edit: actually you need 4 because each would have only one high voltage output.
but since the input is center tapped it would work great with push pull tubes


----------



## Jones Bob

^ Now that would be a Statement Stax Amp.


----------



## davidsh

kevin gilmore said:


> But But, that's mono. You need 2 of them.
> Given that the step up ratio would be 5 to 10, they should be
> perfect, and very efficient. Designed for ultra low leakage
> inductance etc...
> ...


 
 You don't need that when you have this:


----------



## Chozart

astrostar59 said:


> Welcome my friend to the weird and wonderful world of Stax Earspeakers! We are an odd bunch but bond very well with our love of all things Stax.
> I got my first Stax system aboput 30 years ago, a Lambda Normal Bias and an SRD-7 energiser. I sounded great, better than my speakers from the same power amp.
> 
> I would check the caps in your amp are A OK. It depends on how much it's been used. Take of the top case and look for leaks or bloated cases.
> ...


 

 Thank you, and yes, I will check the condition of the amp, since it's obviously vintage. I own other vintage tube amplifiers (a Sonic Frontiers SFS-80 and a pair of Dynaco's MK-IV monoblocks, of course neither one is a headphone amp).  It's still in transit as we speak (ETA on Wednesday.. UPS Ground, and Monday is a Holiday.)  I'll keep you all posted on my experiences!


----------



## complin

And a spare room in the house to install them all in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Quote:


kevin gilmore said:


> But But, that's mono. You need 2 of them.
> Given that the step up ratio would be 5 to 10, they should be
> perfect, and very efficient. Designed for ultra low leakage
> inductance etc...
> ...


----------



## milosz

That's the Stax Mafia walking past one of the output tubes there on the gantry....


----------



## astrostar59

Please be careful if you are into DIY. Stax amps carry lethal voltages.
  
 IM view. I would seriously check out the insides for damage dude. If the unit is this old you could be faced with more parts needing replacing than worth the hassle.
 And if you go ahead and use it without doing anything, you could electrocute yourself and or blow your headphones.
  
 What is the logic in buying an older amp may I ask.


----------



## kothganesh

astrostar59 said:


> Please be careful if you are into DIY. Stax amps carry lethal voltages.
> 
> IM view. I would seriously check out the insides for damage dude. If the unit is this old you could be faced with more parts needing replacing than worth the hassle.
> And if you go ahead and use it without doing anything, you could electrocute yourself and or blow your headphones.
> ...


 
 +1. A person I know had a very scary moment during testing with the high voltages.


----------



## bearFNF

yeah, doing the "60 cycle shuffle" is no fun. :eek:


----------



## Chozart

Thanks for the concerns, and I am indeed not going to take any risks with this.  And why an old amp? Probably the same reason I own an 1897 upright Steinway & Sons piano. Logic is not a factor in my decision making processes sometimes. Do note that my main amp in my main system is fully refurbished by Parts Connexion (the people behind the original Sonic Frontiers brand), and sound just absolutely amazing with the KT99 Tubes (NOS Yugoslavia KT90A's) it is designed for.
  
 My main HeadFi system is my HiFiMan HE 400 powered by a Schiit Asgard 2, so I do have contemporary gear also.  The Stax purchase is just a bit of a gamble, and I'll at least have some fun with it, if even just looking at it (heck, if the amp isn't worth a dime, maybe the headphones are.)


----------



## tonereef

Can anyone tell me whether there are any differences in construction are between the Lambda Pro and Signature, apart from the thinner diaphragm? Specifically, does the Signature have a grill or foam on the outside side of the earspeaker with a thin layer of wool inside of that? I have a pair of Signatures that must have been modified at some point and currently have nothing to protect the drivers from dust and (presumably) damping the high frequencies a bit (it sounds brighter than the Pro).


----------



## wink

Quote:milosz 





> That's the Stax Mafia walking past one of the output tubes there on the gantry....


 
 How did they get onto the forbidden planet?


----------



## davidsh

tonereef said:


> Can anyone tell me whether there are any differences in construction are between the Lambda Pro and Signature, apart from the thinner diaphragm? Specifically, does the Signature have a grill or foam on the outside side of the earspeaker with a thin layer of wool inside of that? I have a pair of Signatures that must have been modified at some point and currently have nothing to protect the drivers from dust and (presumably) damping the high frequencies a bit (it sounds brighter than the Pro).


 
 That sounds like mine, I think they are stock. No foam or grill on the outside to dampen sound, only that black anoying foam-ish thing they used back then (acoustically transparent).


----------



## edstrelow

tonereef said:


> Can anyone tell me whether there are any differences in construction are between the Lambda Pro and Signature, apart from the thinner diaphragm? Specifically, does the Signature have a grill or foam on the outside side of the earspeaker with a thin layer of wool inside of that? I have a pair of Signatures that must have been modified at some point and currently have nothing to protect the drivers from dust and (presumably) damping the high frequencies a bit (it sounds brighter than the Pro).


 

 I believe that the first Lambda pros had mineral wool padding on the outside, as did other Stax of that era, such as the SRX series,  but later models dropped the foam.  Neither my 404 nor  Lambda Nova Signature came with  mineral wool.  BTW I prefer both of these with the outer foam removed too.  It's not as sonically transparent as you might think, and I find the sound more open without it.  Dust protection comes from thin clear plastic on the outsides of the drivers.


----------



## davidsh

My LS has a woven white net on the outside as dust protection.


----------



## eric65

Transformers box (Wee modified / Wee unmodified / Verto / Verto modified) + RKV-II amp _versus_ Stax amp (SRM 727 / SRM 007t2) :
  
 Follow here : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178230197.html#p178230197


----------



## audiokid

Hi. I recently picked up a lightly used Stax 009 / 007tII Kimik system. It's fed by a Chord Hugo. 
  
 I also have a Stax 507 / 323s system which is only a few weeks old. Same source. 
  
 Using the Hugo, I can feed both systems and easily compare the two systems by swapping the headsets over. Has anyone else compared the two systems, or similar combinations? I must say, there isn't a huge difference to me. Like I said, it's early days but my first impressions are:
  
 - Between the amps, there's a touch more delicacy in the Kimik over the 323s. It also has a warmer sound to my ears, with more bass. However, the 323s seemingly has more drive and sounds faster. The Kimik seems to have a bit more ambience and space, and it's a touch more refined, but the differences are small. 
  
 - The 507 seem to have deeper bass than the 009? I can feel it more on the 507, and they have a bit more 'bite' on the higher frequencies, whereas the 009 are softer sounding and more natural. The 507 seem to have a 'harder' overall sound, with a very slight mid/upper bass hump and a slightly harder treble. The benefit is that the 507 seem to have a bit more slam in the drums, and more immediacy all round. The 009 are perhaps a little more realistic in their tone and level of detail. 
  
 - The 009 are the comfiest headphones I have ever worn. However, the 507 are also very comfy compared to most headphones. 
  
 It would good to hear your experiences with these systems, especially over the longer term. I'm in two minds whether to keep the 009 / Kimik system, as it can be returned to the dealer after a few days. There's a huge difference in price, and there are differences in sonic signature, but it's not so clear as to whether one is better than the other. Any thoughts much appreciated!


----------



## RiStaR

audiokid said:


> Hi. I recently picked up a lightly used Stax 009 / 007tII Kimik system. It's fed by a Chord Hugo.
> 
> I also have a Stax 507 / 323s system which is only a few weeks old. Same source.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's been awhile since I heard the 507 or 009 (both on normal Stax amps), but I seem to recall fairly significant differences in sound stage. What music/files are you listening to?
  
 If you can't appreciate the difference I'm sure your wallet would be happy (and thankful!)


----------



## astrostar59

This is most odd! I had the 007s and now have the 009s and the 009s are miles ahead on everything.
  
 Before I got a KGSShv to power the 009s (which makes these phones sing for sure) I used the 009s on a Stax 717, which is as good
 or better than the current 727, and no doubt better than the 323 partly as the trans are bigger and parts quality higher.
  
 The 009s on the 717 was ok, but really revealed the limitations in the source and amp. It was not really that great IMO. When you get a world class revealing headphone like the 009s you are really digging deep into the source and revealing all it's warts and all. I would hazard a guess the extra bass you here on the 507s is bass bloat in the phone. The 009 has KILLER bass when fed a good signal and decent amp.
  
 What would I do? I would decline the KimiK amp, keep the 009s and get a KGSShv from Birgir or other source. To me, none of the current Stax amps have the quality or drive to do the 009s justice, sorry. I know this might not be what you wanted to read, but to me it is a fact. I got a DIY KGSShv for £1,700 and it kills any Stax amp. The Stax tube amps are an odd ball design, with weird and flawed current delivery, the 727 has that aweful feedback thing going on, the 323 is built to a budget but not up to the job of the 009s. 
  
 If you are really serious about a Stax system, sell the 007s and the 323, decline the Kimik and spend the money realised on a KGSShv DIY, or a WOO WES, Eddie Current or BHSE if the money stretches. There is no Stax amp that you will be happy with for long IMO. BTW I listen to Rock, Dance, Classical, Vocal, it all sounds awesome on the KGSShv with the 009s. I kept my Stax 717 amp for a portable system. It sounds brittle, cold, not real, edgy compared to the KGSShv with the 009s. It has an unatural edge to the treble that gives the perceived idea it has more detail, where the opposite is true. The rest of the Stax amps are the same or behind the 717 IMO. Drop the idea of a Stax amp if you want a top system and keep the 009s! Actually I heard the 507s on the KGSShv and they are very good for the money, but again, way behind the 009s.


----------



## audiokid

I'm listening to a range of music, all lossless FLAC files. Includes Nick Drake, Agnes Obel, Fink, Matthew Halsall, some Coltrane etc.


----------



## audiokid

astrostar59 said:


> This is most odd! I had the 007s and now have the 009s and the 009s are miles ahead on everything.
> 
> Before I got a KGSShv to power the 009s (which makes these phones sing for sure) I used the 009s on a Stax 717, which is as good
> or better than the current 727, and no doubt better than the 323 partly as the trans are bigger and parts quality higher.
> ...


----------



## audiokid

After a bit more time with the two systems, the differences are becoming more apparent. The 009 are increasingly spacious and relaxed, the 507 more immediate and 'on the ears.' 

I really rate the 507 / 323s , but the appeal of the 009 / Kimik is really growing fast. It's just so effortless and balanced.


----------



## astrostar59

> I really rate the 507 / 323s , but the appeal of the 009 / Kimik is really growing fast. It's just so effortless and balanced.


 
 Wait till you here what a good Stat amp can do. The cost of the Kimik is close / same as a KGSShv built for you. Contact Birgir (Spritzer)
 he also is making a smaller KGSShv Stax sized amp which is really great I am told. That would walk all over the Kimik. Really can't see the logic in a Stax amp full price.
 Yeah, second hand to save maybe, not new.....


----------



## muscleking

hi guys
  
 just ordered a stax 4170 on ebay. report back when i receive it. i sure hope it can cause me to sell everything else i own.


----------



## negura

audiokid said:


> After a bit more time with the two systems, the differences are becoming more apparent. The 009 are increasingly spacious and relaxed, the 507 more immediate and 'on the ears.'
> 
> I really rate the 507 / 323s , but the appeal of the 009 / Kimik is really growing fast. It's just so effortless and balanced.


 
  
 I've heard both the 507 and 009s / Kimik and while I do appreciate the 507 for what they are and I like them, even on that gear I don't think they are anywhere close to the 009s. The transients, sound stage, resolution and amazing bass control and quality of the 009s are just in another league (just to name a few aspects).
  
 But if what you're trying to say is that the 507s offer amazing value for how they sound, with that I fully agree.


----------



## muscleking

is everyone listening to their stax with their computer?
  
 i am running an asus xonar stx. right now the rca ports are used for the audioengine speakers. so for the stax just use the same ports yeah? can i connect speaker and stax at the same time?
  
 i don't see anybody mention xonar stx with stax. i don't see why, it is one of the best sound card for a computer. i read somewhere something about variable output from sound card can blow up the stax power unit? i just want to make sure everything is safe before i receive my 4170.


----------



## astrostar59

muscleking said:


> is everyone listening to their stax with their computer?
> 
> i am running an asus xonar stx. right now the rca ports are used for the audioengine speakers. so for the stax just use the same ports yeah? can i connect speaker and stax at the same time?
> 
> i don't see anybody mention xonar stx with stax. i don't see why, it is one of the best sound card for a computer. i read somewhere something about variable output from sound card can blow up the stax power unit? i just want to make sure everything is safe before i receive my 4170.


 
  
 I think you are on a PC right? I am all Mac, but would say I much prefer streaming via USB to my DAC than spinning CDs. I would say the SQ hike from CD to Mac based streaming was about 15% jump so obvious. On your sound card, what is the output? Standard output for a line level on RCA is 2 volts and about 100-500 Ohms output impedance. If your card goes higher in volts than that, then yes, it WILL overload the Stax amp input. 
  
 On connecting at the same time - you have 2 sets of RCA outs? I doubt that, so how would you do it?
 Hope this helps.


----------



## audiokid

negura said:


> I've heard both the 507 and 009s / Kimik and while I do appreciate the 507 for what they are and I like them, even on that gear I don't think they are anywhere close to the 009s. The transients, sound stage, resolution and amazing bass control and quality of the 009s are just in another league (just to name a few aspects).
> 
> But if what you're trying to say is that the 507s offer amazing value for how they sound, with that I fully agree.




Yes, they certainly are excellent VFM. Had some interesting trials by swapping the amps over. The 507 are very good on the 007tii. More detail, more texture and totally very nice.

Still undecided on which set up I prefer. I'm taking a break after a lot of listening today, I think all will be clearer tomorrow!


----------



## rgs9200m

Audiokid, if you are inclined to do such a thing, put RCA cleartops in the 007t/ii amp and bias the new setup. I've said it before here, but I'm looking no further for an amp for my SR009 with this (for now at least... never say never).
 But I'm very happy with the sound. As far as I know, I have not heard of anyone else who has heard this combination other than me. (The exception maybe being Stax themselves, who recommended this to me personally.)


----------



## MacedonianHero

astrostar59 said:


> This is most odd! I had the 007s and now have the 009s and the 009s are miles ahead on everything.
> 
> Before I got a KGSShv to power the 009s (which makes these phones sing for sure) I used the 009s on a Stax 717, which is as good
> or better than the current 727, and no doubt better than the 323 partly as the trans are bigger and parts quality higher.
> ...


 
 Agreed, the SR-007/009s absolutely sing with the KGSSHV. If you can snag one, go for it IMO. Another option if you can't find one is the LL Mk2. It's substantially better than the Mk1 and drove both headphones surprisingly very well to my ears. Now if you wanna hear both headphones at their best, then a DIY T-2 is the best amp I've come across. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I'm not a big fan of either the SRM727II or SRM007, but from what I hear, a spritzer modded SRM727II is quite good.


----------



## muscleking

astrostar59 said:


> I think you are on a PC right? I am all Mac, but would say I much prefer streaming via USB to my DAC than spinning CDs. I would say the SQ hike from CD to Mac based streaming was about 15% jump so obvious. On your sound card, what is the output? Standard output for a line level on RCA is 2 volts and about 100-500 Ohms output impedance. If your card goes higher in volts than that, then yes, it WILL overload the Stax amp input.
> 
> On connecting at the same time - you have 2 sets of RCA outs? I doubt that, so how would you do it?
> Hope this helps.


 
 thanks for the reply. yeah i am using very high end build PC. i don't normally listen to cd. i have a lot of flac and 24/96 and 24/192 ones i just got which i don't see any difference. the 16/44.1 flac is good enough. this is the sound card inputs and outputs.
  
*Analog Output*
 1 x 6.3 mm jack (1/4") Headphone out
 2 x RCA (Un-Balanced)
*Analog Input*
 1 x 6.3 mm jack (1/4") (Line-in/ Mic-in combo)
*Digital*
 1 x S/PDIF out (1 x Optical / Coaxial combo)
 1 x Front-Panel Header
 1 x Aux in (4-pin header)


----------



## davidsh

Take a look at the 006t amp. It has parallel out, meaning you connect RCA to the amp and then use parallel out to your speakers. Doesn't have to be any harder than that. And then I suggest you use the Stax amp with 100% volume on the STX as that is line output I think.
  
 Lastly, I seem to remember seeing specs that the stax amps can take somewhere around 30-35 volts on the input but please don't quote me on that I am in no way sure about it.


muscleking said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > I think you are on a PC right? I am all Mac, but would say I much prefer streaming via USB to my DAC than spinning CDs. I would say the SQ hike from CD to Mac based streaming was about 15% jump so obvious. On your sound card, what is the output? Standard output for a line level on RCA is 2 volts and about 100-500 Ohms output impedance. If your card goes higher in volts than that, then yes, it WILL overload the Stax amp input.
> ...


----------



## muscleking

Cool. Looks like I am set. Stx will act as preamp and dac, then the 006 will be the amp. The best headphone I heard so far is my Sony ma900, hopefully this stax is much better. Seller told me there is a delay in warehouse so will take 5 days to it to ship out and who knows how long to receive. Something to look forward to. 



davidsh said:


> Take a look at the 006t amp. It has parallel out, meaning you connect RCA to the amp and then use parallel out to your speakers. Doesn't have to be any harder than that. And then I suggest you use the Stax amp with 100% volume on the STX as that is line output I think.
> 
> Lastly, I seem to remember seeing specs that the stax amps can take somewhere around 30-35 volts on the input but please don't quote me on that I am in no way sure about it.


----------



## astrostar59

> Still undecided on which set up I prefer. I'm taking a break after a lot of listening today, I think all will be clearer tomorrow!


 
 I guess it comes down to how serious you are about headphones. If you are a casual user, and also use speakers, then that is different
 than if you were full on into headphones. Speaking for myself, I see it along the lines of getting the maximum enjoyment being a serious headphone user. It always ends up being a painful journey and cash spent to get to this point. I would say you WILL end up upgrading and spending more going Stax amp first IMO. I would recommend missing out the Stax amps and get a KGSShv or Woo Audio amp, or a BHSE if you can stand the delay aspect. Then at least you will end the journey, and be in musical heaven.  
  
 All the soul searching before that point, I don't get it myself. The jump to these none Stax amps is huge as regards SQ, the money not so much depending which amp you go for. Yes, if Stax went all out and designed a great amp to come close or be as good as the amps I mentioned here, but read these forums. Almost nobody is saying Stax amps get to that level, it is always a compromise. The Stax amps using tubes so me sound compressed and lack control, even with the 009s that are easier to drive than the 007s for example. They sound ok ish, bit edgy, bit synthetic, not quite high end. Yet the headphones - the 507s, the 007s and the 009s can absolutely sing on a better none Stax amp.
  
 You know, the only way you are going to find out this yourself is get to a hifi meet, or hook up with a member here that lives near you. You will be shocked and amazed - trust me. Take you top 5 or 6 RedBook tracks along with your Stax amp and choice of phones, and do a good 3 or 4 hour A/B. Then lets see where you are with that!


----------



## astrostar59

I just remembered, the chap who built my KGSShv did this exact same thing, went to a Stax dealer, fell in love with the Stax sound, and came home with an SRM-007t and the SR-007s MK2s. A week later, after much thought, took it all back, but kept the phones. He then built his own KGSShv. The thing is, the Stax sound with the phones alone can suck you in, the phones are that good. But in combo with a Stax amp, begins to grate on your nerves, you dive for the volume when harsh treble details comes through, female vocals sound shrill, other instruments sound harsh or forward, the bass gets sloppy. You end up winding down the volume and then (if you keep the amp for long enough) get bored and stop using the whole set up. It is a crying shame. I did this same thing when I had the Lambda Nova Signatures and an SRM-313, then bought a SRM-717, which was better but still not quite right. After I got to hear the BHSE, it changed me forever. I bought the 007s, then the 009s then got a DIY KGSShv. I now am back living the Stax sound again, more than I ever was. To me, the headphones are world beaters from the 507 - 007 - 009 price points. The amps are NOT.


----------



## astrostar59

macedonianhero said:


> Agreed, the SR-007/009s absolutely sing with the KGSSHV. If you can snag one, go for it IMO. Another option if you can't find one is the LL Mk2. It's substantially better than the Mk1 and drove both headphones surprisingly very well to my ears. Now if you wanna hear both headphones at their best, then a DIY T-2 is the best amp I've come across.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes MacedonianHero, a modded 727 is quite good, as I am told by Spritzer, it ends up the same or very close to my 717, which is not half bad. Until that is you here a good KGSShv or the BHSE! I am pleased to read the LLMk2 is better than the Mk1. It is good to have competition in the market place, as progress then happens and the audiophiles benefit. It was kinda weird the negatives the LLMk1 attracted from the other quarters. I haven't heard it, or taken the top off so can't say myself. It is not a cheap amp, but seems to be available on a short (realistic) delivery window. Hope Alex fixed the ridiculously tight Stax plugs!


----------



## rgs9200m

I tried both the SR007s and SR009s on a Woo Wes. The SR007s sounded great, but the SR009 sounded over-the-top with upper mids and lower highs, especially on vocals and strings, that had me cringing. The bass was full and staging was good though.
 But I much prefer my SR009s on my 007t/ii amp, and even more so with it retubed with the RCA cleartops. It is intimate, balanced, and has incredible non-hyped detail, and the highs are sweet and easy to take, which is just what the SR009 needs.
  
 Since I much prefer the SR009 to the SR007, the 009/007t-ii chain works for me, and is quite affordable too.
  
 It's also nice that the Stax amp does not generate loads of heat, tubes and all, which is great if you are sitting next to it in a desktop situation.
  
 The bass I am hearing is at least as prominent and tight and definitely more detailed and natural than my Senn HD800 (with a Pinnacle), so I am happy.
 (I have not heard a BHSE or KGSS yet, so I cannot comment on them.)


----------



## Chozart

I've got my vintage stuff! They're in good condition regarding their, and work perfectly. By the looks of things, they're stock, without any alteration or restoration. I definitely need new earpads, since there isn't even a trace of the faux leather covering left. Good thing Stax even sells earpads for headphones of this age.  Attached a few pictures (sorry for the poor quality; I do need a better camera.) The last picture is my other vintage toy: the earlier mentioned 1897 upright Steinway & Sons piano.
  
 The sound is good. A bit more 'in the head' than I have experienced with my HE-400's, but very detailed and clear. Less bass than the HE-400 delivers but the sound overall is of high quality. Of course, just first impressions for now, and I also have to get used to them pressing against my ears with the worn pads.
  
 There are some things that need attention of course. The main issue right now is a cabling issue on the left channel of the headphones, resulting in an occasional crackling. I've narrowed this down to the cabling, since it occurs with head movements and not when I sit still. And of course, those earpads (and a new camera.)


----------



## greggf

I agree with rgs re:  the STAX SRM-007tII.  It's supersweet at any normal listening level. 
  
 Read the review at  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/listening-great-headphone-amplifiers-and-stax-sr-900  The differences between STAX amps and third party ones tend to show up at higher volume levels.  The STAX amps are great and less expensive for normal listening. 
  
 My concern is that newcomers to headphones will read some of the comments from other folks above and avoid STAX headphones because of the perceived expense and difficulty of them. That would be insane. 
  
 It's like cars.  The standard engine is usually a great combo of reliability, durability, availability, fuel economy, performance, and price.  The STAX amps with the STAX phones are like premium cars with the standard engines that most people purchase.  And they're nicer than most other (dynamic headphones!) cars.
  
 Nobody can argue with headroom, as mentioned in the link above.  But for heaven's sake, don't think you need to skip over STAX just because of the ravings of us obsessive enthusiasts here.


----------



## audiokid

Interesting reading about the alternative amps. I'm not in a position to be swapping just yet, but I'll look into the various options. Thanks for recommendations!
  
 As I have become more familiar with both systems, I have grown to like the 009 system more. Saying that, there's a certain snap and 'twang' to the bass on the 507 that doesn't seem to be as present on the 009. I have tried the phones on the same amp also. 
  
 Now, here's something that you may be able to answer... The 507s are very new and the pads feel very firm on my head, and the bass can almost be felt through the firm pads. The 009 have very soft, worn in pads and the bass is softer, deeper and more rounded. 
  
 I'm guessing the phones naturally have different bass signatures, but wondered if the age of the pads is also making a difference? Might seem an absurd question, but the pads are essentially 'the room' which 'the hifi' sits inside of, so the age of the pads might make a considerable difference?


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## audiokid

...or does the 007tII Kimik need a service? It's 4 years old and hasn't been serviced yet.


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## rgs9200m

greggf said:


> I agree with rgs re:  the STAX SRM-007tII.  It's supersweet at any normal listening level.


 
 Thanks Greg! I've been using Stax amps for 15 years now (the T1W, 007t-original and the current version) with a few Stax phones and I like them and think they are always underestimated.
  
 With my new tubes, I can push the volume on my SR009 to very loud levels, as loud as to cause hearing damage if I was so inclined, and still the highs are fine and not aggressive.
  
 I've been pointing out for a while that Tyll had nice things to say about the 007t/ii amp, and if you can address any issues with the highs of the 009 in particular like I have with a tube-swap and some nice copper 
 cables (like my Cardas Golden Cross) you can get things very right ("delicate" like Tyll says, but still with good impact and bass depth).
  
 Many seem to rush to Tyll's final remarks and conclude that it a BHSE or nothing, but if you read it carefully his impressions are more nuanced than that.
 And Tyll did just use stock tubes and did not vary cables or power cords at all.
  
 If you can afford and wait for a BHSE (with, it seems, PSvane tubes from reading the forums), of course that would be nice to have. 
 But the SR009s are so brilliant that it would be a shame to pass on them if you can't have this top-of-the-line amp.


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## greggf

Yes, Tyll's comments are great.  He's walking a fine line there, and I think he's right on.
  
 Here's where I'm coming from:  I could order something like the BHSE if I wanted to.  I could stand the wait.  I could stand the heat.  I could stand the expense.   I could stand the service difficulties if, god forbid, Justin at HeadAmp were to drive straight into a tree and leave us orphans.  I've ordered STAX stuff from him, and trust him completely and think he's probably a genius. 
  
 It's just that I love the sound of the 007tII, the way you do.


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## rgs9200m

Thanks again Greg. I've have found much if any agreement on this, so I'm happy about that. Best to you.


----------



## MacedonianHero

astrostar59 said:


> Yes MacedonianHero, a modded 727 is quite good, as I am told by Spritzer, it ends up the same or very close to my 717, which is not half bad. Until that is you here a good KGSShv or the BHSE! I am pleased to read the LLMk2 is better than the Mk1. It is good to have competition in the market place, as progress then happens and the audiophiles benefit. It was kinda weird the negatives the LLMk1 attracted from the other quarters. I haven't heard it, or taken the top off so can't say myself. It is not a cheap amp, but seems to be available on a short (realistic) delivery window. Hope Alex fixed the ridiculously tight Stax plugs!


 
  
 The vice grip hold of the Stax plugs of the LLMk1 has been fixed completely with the new model. And it sounds really, really good. I'm quite impressed with what I heard on a direct A-B comparison with my KGSSHV. I wasn't a big fan of the Mk1, but the changes on the LLMk2 have really surprised me. And it's a very well built amp in the new all black case-work. Just to clarify some of my other points, I don't think the SRM727II and SRM007II are bad amps by any means and with the SR-507/307, they are very good. And they are pretty good with the SR-007/9s too.....it's just that in my experiences you're leaving a lot of cards on the table when you've heard them with amps like KGSS, LLMk2, KGSSHV, and especially the T-2.


----------



## astrostar59

Yes I agree the 727 (or at least my 717) is not so bad. But an A/B to a KGSShv, that amp is miles ahead IMO. The treble edge, synthetic sound, none realistic, cold, small sound stage, loose bass, can't go loud without having to dive for the volume when a violin or electric guitar cuts your ears up. On the KGSShv it all sounds so smooth and warmer, more accurate, bigger, masses of control. It is a different world IMO. The Stax amps on there own, and if not hearing a good amp first, can sound ok, kind of interesting, bit fatiguing. But I have many mates in the UK who bought the Stax systems and sold on the amps. The honeymoon with the amps lasts a few months at most.
  
 This to me shows how good the phones really are, and how weak the Stax amps are. The phones scale so well, even the 507s, it has to be a weakness in the Stax amps that is at fault here.
  
 I really wish more demo rooms would show the 007s or 009s with an LLMK2 at the very least, or a WOO WES. It would show the masses what is possible, as opposed to the few who read these forums or go to meets. The whole high end stat market could explode if the demo situation was sorted out. They just display the Stax systems. It reminds me of how Linn and Naim highjacked the hifi stores in the UK in the 90s. They bullied the dealers to not demo anything else. I don't think Stax do that, but the other high end Stat amps don't have a big enough exposure in these shops, so more or less the same thing.


----------



## rgs9200m

Like I said, I heard the WES at a demo and it sent me running for the hills with its chilly highs and sent me happily back to my trusty 007t. Just my ears here.


----------



## astrostar59

Odd? Must have been a horrid track to test on. The tubes and gain stages in the WES are far better quality than the Stax amps IMO.


----------



## David1961

rgs9200m said:


> Like I said, I heard the WES at a demo and it sent me running for the hills with its chilly highs and sent me happily back to my trusty 007t. Just my ears here.


 
  
 The only reason I sold my SR-007mk1's was because they were being driven by the SRM-007t which I also sold at the same time.
  
 I did have them both for 11 years though so it took me sometime to realise how bad [ IMO ] that amp drove the 007mk1's.


----------



## astrostar59

rgs9200m said:


> Like I said, I heard the WES at a demo and it sent me running for the hills with its chilly highs and sent me happily back to my trusty 007t. Just my ears here.


 
 What phones did you try the WOO WES with? In a demo room, at a show, with your own known tracks? What front end?
 I just don't believe you, sorry. Would recommend you get a home demo or spend more time with the WOO,
 KGSShv or a BHSE.
  
 Remember, the 009s reveal everything, and if the source isn't top notch, it will show it for sure. Some lower quality front ends sound better with the 507 or 407 IMO as it doesn't reveal the limitations upstream. The 009s have to be driven by a great front end to sing and provide a natural sound. It's about system synergy.


----------



## Ra97oR

More everyone take about the 727 mod, more I wanted to try it...


----------



## astrostar59

Look for the Spritzer page, an older post hear somewhere. It is pretty easy and only needs a bit of solder and wire.
 Make the 727 sound as good as the 717, which Spritzer says is the best Stax amp apart from the T2.


----------



## kothganesh

astrostar59 said:


> What phones did you try the WOO WES with? In a demo room, at a show, with your own known tracks? What front end?
> I just don't believe you, sorry. Would recommend you get a home demo or spend more time with the WOO,
> KGSShv or a BHSE.
> 
> Remember, the 009s reveal everything, and if the source isn't top notch, it will show it for sure. Some lower quality front ends sound better with the 507 or 407 IMO as it doesn't reveal the limitations upstream. The 009s have to be driven by a great front end to sing and provide a natural sound. It's about system synergy.




What is your front end for the 009?


----------



## greggf

astrostar, this thread  http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/15-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-spdif-converters-shootout-15327/  suggests that your front end sounds a bit "thin".  Is it possible that the STAX amps are simply showing you clearly what you have?


----------



## astrostar59

Ha Ha funny yes very funny. Hmm, as good as the DCS Scarlatti? 
  


> The full Evo stack on the other hand was clearly the best, having the best resolution and HF extension, great layering of instruments and sounding very refined, ultra smooth and fluid. It was even better than Scarlatti CD/SACD transport in terms of resolution, articulation and lack of grain. It lacked a bit in terms of tonal color and texture, sounding at times a little bit lightweight and 'ethereal', but in general, they were both on the same level.


 
 The USB - SPDIF is only part of a front end. You also need a good - smooth DAC and a smooth clean USB feed - read no dirty power supplies.
 My setup has tons of Bass and dynamics. In fact the 009s with the Audio Note DAC 4.1 is as good as the LCD3, but has the transparency to go with that. I have heard the 009s driven by the BHSE and the Esoteric K-01 and my setup is very close indeed. Having tubes my DAC is slightly warmer, the Esoteric a bit colder. My KGSShv kicks in the bass. It  flaws my Stax 717 which is purported by many to be the best Stax amp bar the T2. 
  
 And I was not saying my front end is over bright, rather the Stax amps are edgy and crude in the treble. Funny, with my KGSShv it is as smooth as a babe in a milk bath, deep as the Pacific and transparent as the sky in Spain. I want more folk to go out there and try / listen to more amps for thier Stax phones. IMO the headphones scale really well, which to me, says the Stax amps are the bottleneck. 
  
 Any more questions?


----------



## realmassy

I'm probably in the minority, but I disagree with the common idea of the Stax amps being poor: I've lived for one year with the 600ltd and tried on loan the 007i and they were both superb with the 009. There was no brightness or harshness, they probably are not the last word in terms of dynamics e soundstage but timbrically (which is by far for me the most important attribute) correct.
I only got a different amp because I wanted the best out of the 009 (for my budget and my musical preferences) and because these are my only headphones and I don't use speakers. I could have happily lived with a Stax amp


----------



## realmassy

And I'll add that a good source (and they tend to be more expensive than amps) will have a larger impact on the sound.


----------



## astrostar59

Ask David1961. We were at his house with my own SRM-717 amp and 009s and it was flawed by the BHSE, I mean way way behind. Dynamics, treble smoothness, everything you care to mention. David had the 007t and he didn't think much of it, sounded worse than my 717 apparently.


----------



## realmassy

I have no doubt you or David have preferred the BHSE, but that doesn't mean that the 007i is poor. We look for difference things in the musical reproduction, we have different musical tastes and, more important, we have different ears!


----------



## davidsh

realmassy said:


> I have no doubt you or David have preferred the BHSE, but that doesn't mean that the 007i is poor. We look for difference things in the musical reproduction, we have different musical tastes and, more important, we have different ears!


 
 And listen at different volumes. I think that one is underrated, esp. with 'stat amps.


----------



## greggf

astrostar, I think you're mistaking what is merely your own personal opinion with what is "the truth" for everybody!  We live in postmodern times.  There is no more Franco! There is no absolute truth!  Especially in audio!


----------



## David1961

I've mentioned that when I had the SRM-007t, it was driving the 007mk1's I once had, and I thought that amp didn't drive those 007's at all well.


----------



## greggf

davidsh, yes, I think you've put your finger on the real issue here:  the volume we listen at.  I love STAX amps, but I listen at very conservative volume levels.


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## astrostar59

Yes that's true, I like it to sound good!


----------



## complin

+1
 It usually a problem elsewhere in the audio chain IMO Stax amps are much maligned
 Yes the Boutique amps are better but they are likely to be more expensive and you have to build it too !
  
 Quote:


realmassy said:


> I'm probably in the minority, but I disagree with the common idea of the Stax amps being poor: I've lived for one year with the 600ltd and tried on loan the 007i and they were both superb with the 009. There was no brightness or harshness, they probably are not the last word in terms of dynamics e soundstage but timbrically (which is by far for me the most important attribute) correct.
> I only got a different amp because I wanted the best out of the 009 (for my budget and my musical preferences) and because these are my only headphones and I don't use speakers. I could have happily lived with a Stax amp


----------



## complin

This is hardly a fair comparison, the BHSE would cost over double that of the top end Stax amp. Paying such a premium I would expect it to be considerably better ! 
  
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> Ask David1961. We were at his house with my own SRM-717 amp and 009s and it was flawed by the BHSE, I mean way way behind. Dynamics, treble smoothness, everything you care to mention. David had the 007t and he didn't think much of it, sounded worse than my 717 apparently.


----------



## complin

The 007 mk1's require a lot of voltage swing to make them sing and the SRM-007t and 717 were just not designed to deliver that.
 They really do come alive on the SRM-T2 or BH/BHSE.
  
 Quote:


david1961 said:


> I've mentioned that when I had the SRM-007t, it was driving the 007mk1's I once had, and I thought that amp didn't drive those 007's at all well.


----------



## David1961

I've heard both the 009 and 007mk1 with both the BHSE and SRM-007t, and I found the gap wasn't as wide when using the 009, as it was using the 007.


----------



## astrostar59

Yes I agree. But Stax don't make one at that level. My point is the gap between the Stax amps and the competition. I am responding to the posts by folk saying the gap is close, the 007t is real nice etc. The gap is BIG, and yes so is the money, but my point is the 007 and 009 scale to that level, and are held back by the Stax amps, the demo that mosts folk out their will hear and think that's as good as it gets. This stat hobby is exciting for me as there IS that upper level available by using better amps. It's a pity there is not more dealers WW who carry the more exotic amps.


----------



## audiokid

audiokid said:


> Interesting reading about the alternative amps. I'm not in a position to be swapping just yet, but I'll look into the various options. Thanks for recommendations!
> 
> As I have become more familiar with both systems, I have grown to like the 009 system more. Saying that, there's a certain snap and 'twang' to the bass on the 507 that doesn't seem to be as present on the 009. I have tried the phones on the same amp also.
> 
> ...


 
 Does anyone have any thoughts on the questions above?


----------



## zolkis

audiokid said:


> Interesting reading about the alternative amps. I'm not in a position to be swapping just yet, but I'll look into the various options. Thanks for recommendations!
> 
> As I have become more familiar with both systems, I have grown to like the 009 system more. Saying that, there's a certain snap and 'twang' to the bass on the 507 that doesn't seem to be as present on the 009. I have tried the phones on the same amp also.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your impressions mirror mine. However, I consider the 009 bass better than the 507 at least when we talk about instrument realism. The 507 may make a better impression with pop/electronic genres, but that's still an impression. The softer, deeper, and more rounded bass is the better one, IMO. In another thread, I just commented this: "often the short-term listening deceives people. I only believe in a combination of short-term and extended listenings. A simple test to tell whether you ear cheats you at the first/short listening is to ask yourself, which compared device's tonality feels "deeper" (as pink-noise-deeper) at the same perceived musical resolution: usually the one with the perceived deeper/softer/more relaxed tonality is the better one, and the other is harder sounding. 
  
 In my experience, the pads age doesn't change the sound that much, if the filling doesn't shrink and the leather doesn't break. If the volume shrinks, the pads tend to sound a bit more open and lose some perceived bass, as the ears get closer to the membrane, and the sound stage may also change.


----------



## audiokid

Thanks, this is useful to read.


----------



## kevin gilmore

in the next 5 years (or less) you can be sure of at least
3 statement amps, each from a different manufacturer.
2 of the 3 are virtually guaranteed to be much north of $10k


----------



## greggf

Kevin, can you say what manufacturers?  Are there actually three sources that can pull it off?  I look forward to at least one 10k boat anchor, for entertainment purposes.


----------



## MacedonianHero

rgs9200m said:


> Like I said, I heard the WES at a demo and it sent me running for the hills with its chilly highs and sent me happily back to my trusty 007t. Just my ears here.


 
 That says more about the WES. In my experiences with that amp, I wouldn't blame you for sticking with the 007t (or 727II). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


realmassy said:


> I'm probably in the minority, but I disagree with the common idea of the Stax amps being poor: I've lived for one year with the 600ltd and tried on loan the 007i and they were both superb with the 009. There was no brightness or harshness, they probably are not the last word in terms of dynamics e soundstage but timbrically (which is by far for me the most important attribute) correct.
> I only got a different amp because I wanted the best out of the 009 (for my budget and my musical preferences) and because these are my only headphones and I don't use speakers. I could have happily lived with a Stax amp


 
 I think it comes down to priorities. I'm of the mindset that if one's going to invest in the SR009s (or SR007s), then they should really get the most they can get out of them. I think the SRM007/727II are quite good with those headphones, but at this level, I want more than "quite good"; instead I want close to the best. YMMV of course, just my perspective (and I did enjoy my SR-009s with the 727II quite a bit too).


----------



## rgs9200m

Thanks Mac for that. I should try and hear a KGSS sometime...


----------



## astrostar59

Ooh Kevin, what a tease! Now who are these guys? It would be exciting indeed to get more players in the top end stat amp market.
  
 The BHSE is a great amp, but did not suit my lifestyle. SS suits me better. That is how the Stat market is IMO, some want EL34 tubes (WOO WES or BHSE) others want SS, others may like the cheaper but apparently also very good KGST, with it's low cost tubes.
  
 Now if a statement amp that was SS could beat the BHSE, and could be built quicker than 1 year+ then that has me excited indeed. Or is it going to be a tubed T2 monster sized 2 box?
  
 I always wonder why the top end Stat market isn't bigger as in more volume sales. Think how many audio fans sit at a computer at home for leisure nowadays. It was not happening 10-15 years ago.
  
 Stax is still a relatively small company yet is the main player for electrostatic headphones. If the mass market who were serious about audio heard some of the high end Stat amps with the 007s or 009s, it would IMO get more sales through. I came to this point by error, by buying and selling various Stax models till I got the 009s and bought a KGSShv. It was not a planned strategy, or a dealer demo. I heard the 009s and the BHSE at a friends house, and read about the KGSSHv hear on this forum.
  
 So, I am thinking, yes, there is a healthy market for a top Stat amp IMO, if it can be 'out their' somehow without the dealer markups and huge advertising costs to do that. Forum links and a well designed website would probably be key. And float it out as a beta to get some reviews back in to support it as a newbie on the scene, and show it a various head-fi meets.


----------



## milosz

wink said:


> How did they get onto the forbidden planet?


 
 Megatron brought them there.  They were getting a demo of a new Krell headphone amp.....


----------



## arnaud

I don't have insider info, but we all heard sennheiser working on a an Orpheus 2 and Stax has been looking at a t2 successor for while. Third player, headamp working on a successor to the BHSE, even smaller run, double the price?

As for SS (direct drive) amp is concerned, I'd hold my horses as, apart from the electric chair silicon carbide version, I don't recall Kevin or Birgir (when he wasn't censored that is) saying that components are thriving and the future is all rosy...

I also don't believe in the democratization of stat technology, Stax certainly did not do anything to win over the largest market share but electrodynamics and especially orthos are so much easier to handle. Stats have always been and will remain the niche within the niche IMO. Components shortage will only make things worse, gotta get used to it... I think there's a reason why Stax amps are underpowered and nothing better is easily coming out under their brand...

Arnaud


----------



## David1961

kevin gilmore said:


> in the next 5 years (or less) you can be sure of at least
> 3 statement amps, each from a different manufacturer.
> 2 of the 3 are virtually guaranteed to be much north of $10k




Interesting that some amps may eventually be coming out costing above $10,000, but when it gets to that price, it's be hopes that if at a later date another amp comes out which betters the ones at $10,000, that the ones at $10,000 can be upgraded.
Because the K-01 I have wasn't cheap, rather than have to buy a new model which one has just come out called the K-01X, the old model K-01 can be upgraded to the SQ level of the new one.

I've recently heard that the old K-01 can be upgraded later this year to give the SQ of the new one, but when I first bought the K-01 ( old one ) I was told by the dealer that if there were any upgrades they could be done, at a price.


----------



## wink

Quote:milosz 





> wink said:
> 
> 
> > How did they get onto the forbidden planet?
> ...


 
 And, here I was under the delusion it was all caused by the over consumption of Robbie the Robot's synthetic single malt whiskey.
  
 Those amps look more like Halcro Super Deluxe Uber ID versions of their DM78's. Planetary power station is optional.
  
 Quote:Arnaud 





> As for SS (direct drive) amp is concerned, I'd hold my horses as, apart from the electric chair silicon carbide version, I don't recall Kevin or Birgir (when he wasn't censored that is) saying that components are thriving and the future is all rosy...


 
 It seems that in the last few years that the Silicon Carbide situation may be expanding.
  
 Maybe a return to good old CRT technology or all tube design are the only viable options.
  
 Long live the DIYT2 and Megatron.


----------



## kevin gilmore

i can assure you that a silicon carbide amp is coming.
 Boards should be here soon.
  
 With respect to the Esoteric (teac) stuff, upgrades are easy other than
 the cost of the upgrades. Remove board, replace board with new board
 that fits in the same hole. Although few actually knew about this,
 many of the krells over the years had upgradeable boards and had
 future options built into the base chassis (like the hdcd light)
  
 Much different thing with electrostatic amps. Sort of like sports cars.


----------



## Bluess

Can some one recommend me the best setup for 009 (ignore the pricetags)? I would be much appreciated.


----------



## soulreaver1

Hello all, I'm planning to buy a STAX SR-Gamma Pro + SRM-1/MK-2 PRO. This will be my first Stax setup. I'd like to know how it compare to new SRS-2170 system. I'm looking for some low budget, entry level setup.


----------



## walakalulu

One must remember that the likes of the BHSE costs nearly three times as much as the top Stax amp, at least here in the UK, so it damn well should sound better.


----------



## kevin gilmore

i believe that the T2 was about 6 times the price of the srm-t1 then.
would be at least $15k now.


----------



## davidsh

soulreaver1 said:


> Hello all, I'm planning to buy a STAX SR-Gamma Pro + SRM-1/MK-2 PRO. This will be my first Stax setup. I'd like to know how it compare to new SRS-2170 system. I'm looking for some low budget, entry level setup.


 
 I believe the srm-1 mk2 pro must be a better amp than the 252, assumming the srm-1 performes as it is supposed to. I remember hearing the gamma is a proper electrostat, though not as good as some of the lambdas. Not sure?


----------



## 3X0

macedonianhero said:


> I think it comes down to priorities. I'm of the mindset that if one's going to invest in the SR009s (or SR007s), then they should really get the most they can get out of them.



Dunno. The return per dollar from a Lambda to a SR-00X is far greater than the return per dollar from an amplifier. With a $4000 budget for instance a young gentleman would be better serviced by a SR-009 + 323S than a Lambda Nova/Signature and a KGSSHV (or arguably a SR-007 and KGSSHV, depending on taste).


----------



## MacedonianHero

3x0 said:


> Dunno. The return per dollar from a Lambda to a SR-00X is far greater than the return per dollar from an amplifier. With a $4000 budget for instance a young gentleman would be better serviced by a SR-009 + 323S than a Lambda Nova/Signature and a KGSSHV (or arguably a SR-007 and KGSSHV, depending on taste).




Agreed,but a SR009/323S is still quite a bit behind the amps I mentioned earlier and over time I think the SR009s are being held back...and I know I wouldn't be satisfied for more than a few months knowing just how better they sounded. YMMV


----------



## arnaud

You guys are such enablers, am glad I am on the list for a BHSE .

As for combo, some would argue a 007mk1 + kgsshv is a better value and performance than a 009+ any amp. I guess I will find out soon enough, but it's hard to imagine for now.

Arnaud


----------



## Sahara

Hi.
 Im curious about a couple questions:
  
 Imagine that you find a new Stax SR-4070..never opened from a order never sold about 9/10 years ago (the S/N is 2xxx of 4070 manufacured orders at time of order) . Perhaps one of the very few SR-4070 still unopened or maybe the last one...but for sure an
exceptional and rare opportunity​  
 How much could those earspekers cost?
 What's a reasonable price to buy them? 
  
 Cheers


----------



## n3rdling

I think I bought/sold my 4070s for like $1200 but that was a pretty good deal.  Those were in very nice condition, normal going rate was probably closer to $1500.  NIB I'm thinking around $2k? 
  
 I'm not really crazy about the 4070 though.  I do think it's possibly the best closed headphone ever, but then I don't think much of many closed headphones.  It has a somewhat sterile sound, but designing a closed electrostat is very difficult.


----------



## David1961

kevin gilmore said:


> i can assure you that a silicon carbide amp is coming.
> Boards should be here soon.
> 
> With respect to the Esoteric (teac) stuff, upgrades are easy other than
> ...




Thank you for that Kevin.

I do like what Teac can do though where rather than have to buy a new model, the older model can be upgraded.
 Whether they do that with just Esoteric I don't know.


----------



## zolkis

kevin gilmore said:


> i can assure you that a silicon carbide amp is coming.
> Boards should be here soon.


 
 I have high hopes for SiC and GaN technologies. Let's see when do they get to audio applications. At the moment seems like only companies can get samples, and only by having some partnership. I am trying to source some GaN devices, no chance ATM. If there are any commercial sources for these parts, please share .


----------



## soulreaver1

davidsh said:


> I believe the srm-1 mk2 pro must be a better amp than the 252, assumming the srm-1 performes as it is supposed to. I remember hearing the gamma is a proper electrostat, though not as good as some of the lambdas. Not sure?


 
 Thanks. I'm quite sure this is the cheapest way to try electrostats


----------



## Ali-Pacha

soulreaver1 said:


> Hello all, I'm planning to buy a STAX SR-Gamma Pro + SRM-1/MK-2 PRO. This will be my first Stax setup. I'd like to know how it compare to new SRS-2170 system. I'm looking for some low budget, entry level setup.


 
 Gamma pro ? These are pretty rare (and I'm looking for one btw 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
  
 Ali


----------



## audiokid

zolkis said:


> Your impressions mirror mine. However, I consider the 009 bass better than the 507 at least when we talk about instrument realism. The 507 may make a better impression with pop/electronic genres, but that's still an impression. The softer, deeper, and more rounded bass is the better one, IMO. In another thread, I just commented this: "often the short-term listening deceives people. I only believe in a combination of short-term and extended listenings. A simple test to tell whether you ear cheats you at the first/short listening is to ask yourself, which compared device's tonality feels "deeper" (as pink-noise-deeper) at the same perceived musical resolution: usually the one with the perceived deeper/softer/more relaxed tonality is the better one, and the other is harder sounding.
> 
> In my experience, the pads age doesn't change the sound that much, if the filling doesn't shrink and the leather doesn't break. If the volume shrinks, the pads tend to sound a bit more open and lose some perceived bass, as the ears get closer to the membrane, and the sound stage may also change.


 

After some lengthy listens this week, I decided not to keep the 009 / 007t kimik system. As good as it was, I thought it sounded different to the 507/323s system, better in some places but not in others. I can appreciate what the flagship system does, but the energy, snap and bounce the 507/323s have just makes them so addictive. 

Practically it suits me better too - no valves to worry about, compact amp on the desk, you can leave it powered up, and the design of the headphones is fantastic in their unique way. 

Of course, it's hard to beat the 009 for realism and tonality, and fine details, but I found them a little too soft and polite on many albums. I realise I'm probably in a minority here! 

The used 009 / 007tii kimik are going back... Unless someone wants to bag a flagship system in the London area!


----------



## zolkis

audiokid said:


> After some lengthy listens this week, I decided not to keep the 009 / 007t kimik system. As good as it was, I thought it sounded different to the 507/323s system, better in some places but not in others. I can appreciate what the flagship system does, but the energy, snap and bounce the 507/323s have just makes them so addictive.
> 
> Practically it suits me better too - no valves to worry about, compact amp on the desk, you can leave it powered up, and the design of the headphones is fantastic in their unique way.
> 
> ...




i appreciate your boldness and self consistency for listening yourself, comparing to the flagship and deciding for yourself. i am sure you will enjoy the 507 and your focus to the music will be undisturbed by upgraditis for a while


----------



## realmassy

The 507 are excellent value for money and the pairing with the 323 is just right. Used to love that combo.


----------



## arnaud

kevin gilmore said:


> i can assure you that a silicon carbide amp is coming.
> Boards should be here soon.




Changed your mind? 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/582518/electrostatic-amplifiers-voltage-ratings#post_7925872


----------



## kevin gilmore

put a fair amount of work into it, and carefully selected parts.
should know soon if the board performance matches the prototype

T2 class heatsinks!


----------



## project86

sahara said:


> Hi.
> Im curious about a couple questions:
> 
> Imagine that you find a new Stax SR-4070..never opened from a order never sold about 9/10 years ago (the S/N is 2xxx of 4070 manufacured orders at time of order) . Perhaps one of the very few SR-4070 still unopened or maybe the last one...but for sure an
> ...


 
  
  
 Having been on the hunt for a good condition SR-4070 for the past year, I have yet to see a pair go for the older prices of $1200-1400 or so. I used to see sales of that type on a semi-regular basis. But when I wanted a pair for myself, it seems the supply has dried up. $1500-2200 or more is the range I've encountered, depending on the condition. I was outbid on a near-mint pair when I refused to go higher than $2350. The seller later mentioned he got roughly $2600 for it. 
  
 As for being worth it.... that's subjective. I am really enjoying mine off a KGSShv. I can see how people find them sort of sterile though, but then again people say the same about the 009. For me, having 007 plus 4070 offers a nice contrast.


----------



## eric65

eric65 said:


> Transformers box (Wee modified / Wee unmodified / Verto / Verto modified) + RKV-II amp _versus_ Stax amp (SRM 727 / SRM 007t2) :
> 
> Follow here : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178230197.html#p178230197


 
  
 You can follow the "Hunger Games" of amplifiers here (in french): http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178234006.html#p178234006
 Normally, only one winner!
  
 Already two "tributes" out.


----------



## schorsch

Hello,

Has anyone experienced the malvalve headamp?

Regards Georg


----------



## 3X0

project86 said:


> Having been on the hunt for a good condition SR-4070 for the past year, I have yet to see a pair go for the older prices of $1200-1400 or so. I used to see sales of that type on a semi-regular basis. But when I wanted a pair for myself, it seems the supply has dried up. $1500-2200 or more is the range I've encountered, depending on the condition. I was outbid on a near-mint pair when I refused to go higher than $2350. The seller later mentioned he got roughly $2600 for it.


 
 Dang. I've wanted a SR-4070 but I wouldn't pay anywhere near that much for one. If the value on them has gone up so much I hesitate to fathom what the rarer Stax are worth now.


----------



## audiokid

zolkis said:


> i appreciate your boldness and self consistency for listening yourself, comparing to the flagship and deciding for yourself. i am sure you will enjoy the 507 and your focus to the music will be undisturbed by upgraditis for a while


 
  
 Thanks, let's hope so!
  


realmassy said:


> The 507 are excellent value for money and the pairing with the 323 is just right. Used to love that combo.


 
  
 Yes, they seem to work well together!


----------



## astrostar59

> realmassy said:
> 
> 
> > The 507 are excellent value for money and the pairing with the 323 is just right. Used to love that combo.
> ...


 
  
  
  
 I think the 507s are Stax's sweet spot, the point where high end starts and the cost is still reasonable. Beyond this level it starts to get a bit crazy. But if you fall for the Stax magic, there may be no other alternative but to go higher up the ladder. I heard the 507s through a KGSShv and it scaled really well, and the headphone came alive a lot, more dynamics, more bass, warmer. It shows they 507s are really capable. But with a nice front end and decent Stax amp it is really pretty good. I am thinking of buying a pair of 507s as a set I can lug around when I visit family in the UK, and in that case would be powered by a Stax 717.


----------



## astrostar59

3x0 said:


> Dang. I've wanted a SR-4070 but I wouldn't pay anywhere near that much for one. If the value on them has gone up so much I hesitate to fathom what the rarer Stax are worth now.


 
 I second that. Unless you are a collector I can't see the sense? Get the 007s new and your done.


----------



## project86

3x0 said:


> Dang. I've wanted a SR-4070 but I wouldn't pay anywhere near that much for one. If the value on them has gone up so much I hesitate to fathom what the rarer Stax are worth now.


 
  
  


astrostar59 said:


> I second that. Unless you are a collector I can't see the sense? Get the 007s new and your done.


 
  
  
 Well, for me anyway, the benefits of a closed back design are worth the price. I do a lot of listening at night while the family is sleeping, and blasting an open headphone just won't do. Plus I already have an 007 anyway. Would I buy a 4070 first at that price, before an 007? Probably not. But as a complementary headphone it matches quite well. 
  
 Also, the 4070 sounds way better on my KGSShv than it did when I tried a 727II and a WES. So the return on investment rather depends on your amplification strategy.


----------



## astrostar59

> Well, for me anyway, the benefits of a closed back design are worth the price. I do a lot of listening at night while the family is sleeping, and blasting an open headphone just won't do. Plus I already have an 007 anyway. Would I buy a 4070 first at that price, before an 007? Probably not. But as a complementary headphone it matches quite well.
> 
> Also, the 4070 sounds way better on my KGSShv than it did when I tried a 727II and a WES. So the return on investment rather depends on your amplification strategy.


 
  
 Gotcha. It shows to me that there is a market for a closed design. And I agree, decent amplification does have a marked improvement. I got attacked for saying this a few posts back. It seems to me the ones attacking are Stax amp only users, like I used to be.
  
_There are those that have the knowledge, those that think they have the knowledge, those that stop halfway up the mountain and think they know all the knowledge.... _


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Wiktor strikes again :
 http://www.ebay.fr/itm/STAX-SRM-T2-SPS-T2-the-amplifier-T2-2-/301305765203?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item4627391d53
 http://www.ebay.fr/itm/STAX-SRM-T2-SPS-T2-with-SR-OMEGA-T2-1-/301305757966?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item462739010e
 The first one was bought by him for 6 k€ here : http://www.casques-headphones.com/les-bonnes-affaires/381-stax-srm-t2.html
 How about "lol" ?

 Ali


----------



## realmassy

Too bad I've already a mortgage :mad:


----------



## arnaud

ali-pacha said:


> How about "lol" ? Ali


 
  
 How about 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 for the fortunate moron who is going to pay for this...


----------



## Michgelsen

astrostar59 said:


> (...) And I agree, decent amplification does have a marked improvement. I got attacked for saying this a few posts back. It seems to me the ones attacking are Stax amp only users, like I used to be.


 
  
 Yes yes, I'm sure the KGSS(HV) and Blue Hawaii (can) sound better than the Stax amps, but often, when members ask for advice or are happy with what they already have, repeating this is totally irrelevant and unnecessary. Also, Stax amps *are* 'decent'. Whether 'decent' is adequate for someone, is up to them and their wallet.
 Of course, when asked for advice on the non-Stax amps, opinions on those are very welcome and in such cases I'm glad we have members around who have heard many different amps. This post is also not strictly directed at you Astrostar, it's just that any amp-related questions often seem to escalate into posts about the 'need for' Gilmore amps. That gets boring.


----------



## mulveling

This here is the Summit-fi forum. Not the this-here-is-good-enough-and-I-get-tired-of-reading-about-better-alternatives-than-what-I-own-fi forum.


----------



## greggf

Yes, but this is "The STAX Thread", and the 727 and 007tII are not in any way, shape, or form suitable for "The Entry-Level STAX Thread".  So here (hear?) we are.  :O


----------



## astrostar59

I get both sides of this discussion. My point is the 'masses' don't get to hear any / many none Stax amps at dealers. The Stax systems are fine and for the money I agree are very good. But the advent of the 009 and the current hungry nature of the 007 has changed the Stax system offerings IMO. If we go to the 507 system and below, yes that is great value and gives the user a real taste of the high end. But if someone buys the 007 or 009, I am sorry, it doesn't have a realistic Stax system to support it i.e. no amp to match.
  
 I get the impression Stax are aware of this situation. There were rumours they may build an 007/009 amp soon. But until then, IMO anyone coming into the world of Stax and buying the 007 or 009 is not being given the right advice selling them bundled with the Stax amps - sorry if this doesn't sit well with some. To be honest, if Stax had a leading amp to do the 007/009 justice I would have bought if for sure - no hassles, with warranty, can hear it before I buy etc etc. Because this is not available, it is up the the headfi community to give out their experiences instead.
  
 Going back to the wallet and budgets, a very good KGSS or KGSShv either DIY or built by a builder can be had for around the same as an SRM-727.


----------



## David1961

Even though there are none Stax amps available, if those that aren't in the know about such amps went to a dealer to buy say the 007's or 009's, that dealer will more than likely suggest they buy a Stax amp. This is why before buying any of the top two Stax Earspeakers, the potential buyer ( IMO ) should look on headphone sites.


----------



## eric65

michgelsen said:


> Yes yes, I'm sure the KGSS(HV) and Blue Hawaii (can) sound better than the Stax amps, but often, when members ask for advice or are happy with what they already have, repeating this is totally irrelevant and unnecessary. Also, Stax amps *are* 'decent'. Whether 'decent' is adequate for someone, is up to them and their wallet.
> Of course, when asked for advice on the non-Stax amps, opinions on those are very welcome and in such cases I'm glad we have members around who have heard many different amps. This post is also not strictly directed at you Astrostar, it's just that any amp-related questions often seem to escalate into posts about the 'need for' Gilmore amps. That gets boring.


 
  
 Yes, a bit of diversity to exit the Leitmotif "KG produce = the best amps for Stax Earspeaker" can not hurt. 
  
 PS: soon have news about it (alternative amps for stax headphones).


----------



## milosz

I think in particular there is one semi-exception to the "All the Stax amps are quite good..."  concept-  for the SR-007 you really want something like a KGSSHV Blue Hawaii DIY-T2 or Megatron.  The SR-007's sound OK on Stax amps but on something able to swing more voltage they have been called "the best sounding headphone, period"  by some folks who have heard all the best electrostatic headphones ever made. Now I think that's hyperbole, but for the SR-007 you really, really want a _special_ amp. Listening to the other Stax phones and the ESP-950 on various Stax amps you hear slight differences between those Stax amps, but they all sound GREAT really. Listen to a pair of Lambdas on a KGSSHV and yes it's an improvement over a stax srm-1/mk2  but the improvement is not night vs day.  However go from an SRM-T1  to a DIY-T2 on the SR-007's  and you will hear a BIG difference.  The SR-007's really come alive with one of those special amps.
  
 Interestingly, the SR-009's seem easier to drive and I don't think the difference between a Stax amp and "special" amp on them is as great a change as on the SR-007.


----------



## eric65

eric65 said:


> You can follow the "Hunger Games" of amplifiers here (in french): http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178234006.html#p178234006
> Normally, only one winner!
> 
> Already two "tributes" out.


 
  
*Listen, listen, listen; some attention, ladies and gentlemen; Here are the results of the first Hunger games audio* (comparison of amplifiers with headphones Stax SR-009). 
  
*Six tributes at the start*: 
 District 1: WooAudio Wee Wee modified and unmodified (coupled to RKV-II amplifier) 
 District 2: Stax SRM 727 and SRM 007t 
 District 12: Audiovalve Verto unmodified and modified Verto (coupled to RKV-II amplifier)
  
*Only one winner normally*. 
  
*The winner is* .... or rather ... are both tributes from District 12, the *AudioValve Verto box *coupled to the amplifier Audiovalve RKV-II.
  
 (Nb: modification of the Verto with cutting the leg of two resistors (see photo : has not yet been achieved and it soon will be, this  modification proposed by M. Becker (of AudioVlave) aims to further improve the clarity of Verto, yet does not lack, according to the comparative monitoring done by Peter (Pierre) to this link : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/verto-le-boitier-audiovalve-pour-casques-stax-t30052030-105.html ); this change will be carried out soon). 
  
 : 
  
  
 .
*Winner : Verto box coupled to the amplifier RKV-II* (with the 009 Stax Headphone)
  
 The Verto box (coupled to the amplifier RKV-II) is the winner for the best overall sound rendering over all other competitors amps, with a better overall synergy with the 009; not to mention a much better versatility of use it is also noteworthy (ie : possible listening of Stax headphones and others (no estat) like orthodynamics and electrodynamics headphones with the RKV amp).
  
 Eric


----------



## SquireC

If the Verto box is that good, it will need to be able to be used with other power amps using the speaker out connections. Like the Wee and the Stax SRD energisers. IMHO.


----------



## eric65

squirec said:


> If the Verto box is that good, it will need to be able to be used with other power amps using the speaker out connections. Like the Wee and the Stax SRD energisers. IMHO.


 
  
 It is quite possible with the Verto box (using the HP Terminal in reverse mode), but the results may be less good than the use of the RKV- II (or III) in  OTL mode, with input jack (that use the low ratio 1:5.9 of the Verto transformers)


----------



## wink

The big frog in a small pond is not the same as the big frog in a big pond.....


----------



## paradoxper

And . . . nobody cares.


----------



## greggf

I found comments from spritzer on Tyll's Innerfidelity review of the BHSE, where spritzer said, "With electrostatics most amps are just idling at normal listening levels . . . "
  
 Can someone define "loud" listening levels for me, as opposed to "normal" listening levels?  How loud is "loud"?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

What d"you say ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ali


----------



## rgs9200m

Leitmotif... Wow, 'have not heard that word since college long ago. (I admit I had to look it up since I forgot the meaning.) I always appreciate the education I get on headfi. So thank you. (Post 3135 above.) Beautiful word by the way.


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## complin

We seem to be missing the point here in that most of the other alternatives to STAX amps are mostly DIY or boutique manufacturers who sell direct. They don't have a dealer network, marketing costs, or offer distributors/dealers a markup/profit margin or export across the world like Stax. The alternatives are mainly only available in the USA so they don't have to comply with safety and electrical standards across the EU and rest of the world. All this stuff costs and Stax want/need to sell in reasonable volumes.
 If you take these factors into account then these alternative amps would at least double in price so a BHSE would cost at least $10,000 for example! Woo and Cavaili would require similar price hikes. How many punters are willing/going to lay out this sort of money? I would suggest very few indeed!
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> I get both sides of this discussion. My point is the 'masses' don't get to hear any / many none Stax amps at dealers. The Stax systems are fine and for the money I agree are very good. But the advent of the 009 and the current hungry nature of the 007 has changed the Stax system offerings IMO. If we go to the 507 system and below, yes that is great value and gives the user a real taste of the high end. But if someone buys the 007 or 009, I am sorry, it doesn't have a realistic Stax system to support it i.e. no amp to match.
> 
> I get the impression Stax are aware of this situation. There were rumours they may build an 007/009 amp soon. But until then, IMO anyone coming into the world of Stax and buying the 007 or 009 is not being given the right advice selling them bundled with the Stax amps - sorry if this doesn't sit well with some. To be honest, if Stax had a leading amp to do the 007/009 justice I would have bought if for sure - no hassles, with warranty, can hear it before I buy etc etc. Because this is not available, it is up the the headfi community to give out their experiences instead.
> 
> Going back to the wallet and budgets, a very good KGSS or KGSShv either DIY or built by a builder can be had for around the same as an SRM-727.


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## greggf

So these boutique amps are only useful for those who listen at "above normal" volume levels?  Again, how loud is that?  I really don't know. 
  
 I wouldn't be surprised if all of you here listen to really, really high levels, but I just don't know.  Tell me.


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## karlgerman

For me, i dont. Most of the time i try to use a realistic sound level. a level a jazz quartet would sound like or a symphonic orchestra. This is the same for the stax and my martin logan summit x.
 The KGSS has more dynamic and more punch even at lower levels. Same fore the blue hawaii, i hope, but with tube sounding.
 i used a stax amp for years and was ok with that but i really have to admit that there is a improvement with the gilmore amp.
  
 Same was with my journey from stello signature dac to metrum octave and the esoteric d-02 DAC.  There was always room for improvement and the journey probably never ends!


----------



## arnaud

eric65 said:


> The Verto box (coupled to the amplifier RKV-II) is the winner for the best overall sound rendering over all other competitors amps, with a better overall synergy with the 009; not to mention a much better versatility of use it is also noteworthy (ie : possible listening of Stax headphones and others (no estat) like orthodynamics and electrodynamics headphones with the RKV amp).
> 
> Eric




I have saved you one future post, since I know the outcome already.


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## kevin gilmore

arnaud, you missed a couple of pictures

kgsshv (any one will do)
megatron
ges
wes
ll2t
eddie current

and i probably forgot a few


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## arnaud

kevin gilmore said:


> arnaud, you missed a couple of pictures
> 
> kgsshv (any one will do)
> megatron
> ...


 
  
 I know but the shelf was getting heavy, I fear it would all fall apart. Not that I care about the looks of what's on the top but I would be sad to make a big dent on that BHSE down there...


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## NoPants

I think the conclusion we can all draw from this is to glue step-up transformers to the sides of the 009 and wear a backpack with batteries for the 580V bias. After that should be trivial to test out different power amplifiers by mounting one's face to the speaker terminals


----------



## jgazal

greggf said:


> I found comments from spritzer on Tyll's Innerfidelity review of the BHSE, where spritzer said, "With electrostatics most amps are just idling at normal listening levels . . . "
> 
> Can someone define "loud" listening levels for me, as opposed to "normal" listening levels?  How loud is "loud"?


 
  
 As far as I understand, spritzer means that a class A amplifier is working in a linear region (less distortion). 
  
 If you have a more powerful electrostatic amplifier, you do not want to increase the volume, but keep it at the listening levels you are used to and it will work in a region that is even more linear than the less powerful amplifier.
  
 Consider an amplifier A (max output of 28w) and an amplifier B (max output of 280W), then in both a conservative listening level (70db?) and what you would call loud (90db?), the amplifier B has less distortion compared to amplifier A.
  
 My feeling says the more linear is the operation region the better (less THD, less IMD etc). 
  
 So then I have other question: does tenfold increase in maximum output power from an amplifier A to an amplifier B mean a tenfold decrease in distortion when hearing both amplifiers at a conservative rated volume level (70db, for instance)?
  
 I do *not* know the answer for that question.
  
 Perhaps someone with more technical knowledge could enlighten us.


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## kevin gilmore

the answer to this question is very complicated.
  
 if you look at some of the thd vs power level graphs that tyll did (I can't find at the moment)
 you will see that most amplifiers have more thd at very low power levels than they do
 at higher power levels. Some of this is because the measurement is actually thd + noise.
 Even with pure class A, the lowest thd numbers are usually at about 80% of the amplifiers
 maximum output before clipping. This usually applies to OTL solid state amplifiers.
  
 Tube amplifiers with output transformers behave differently, and it very much depends
 on the topology. Circlotrons and Futtermans for example behave very differently.


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## greggf

great answers . . . thanks guys . . .


----------



## remilio

Can anybody say - is NAD M51 a good match to HeadAmp KGSS and Stax 404LE?


----------



## realmassy

karlgerman said:


> For me, i dont. Most of the time i try to use a realistic sound level. a level a jazz quartet would sound like or a symphonic orchestra.




That's right, there's no loud, but realistic sound level: every recording has its own ideal volume, and that is the RIGHT volume. If the volume is too low you'll have a distant, sterile and uninvolving sound, if it's too loud you'll get huge instruments on the stage, violin as big as a piano for example, which makes the reproduction unrealistic. 
The 009 handle dynamics extremely well and this is also the area where Stax amps are behind compared to the boutique amps.


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## walakalulu

I'm getting the 009s next month and thought long and hard regards the energiser. In the end decided on the Stax 007tll Kimik. The guy who does the Kimik mods has further upgrades in mind so may take advantage as they become available.
 My decision was based on the fact that the shape fits my available space but more importantly I'm just not prepared to import into the UK these no doubt excellent amps that have no backup outside the USA. I don't want to have to return a product across the Atlantic should there be a problem. Luckily should I crave some powerful bass I can use my Audeze instead. Would have been nice to have it all in one package though!


----------



## realmassy

walakalulu said:


> I'm getting the 009s next month and thought long and hard regards the energiser. In the end decided on the Stax 007tll Kimik. The guy who does the Kimik mods has further upgrades in mind so may take advantage as they become available.
> My decision was based on the fact that the shape fits my available space but more importantly I'm just not prepared to import into the UK these no doubt excellent amps that have no backup outside the USA. I don't want to have to return a product across the Atlantic should there be a problem. Luckily should I crave some powerful bass I can use my Audeze instead. Would have been nice to have it all in one package though!


 
  
 Congratulations on your new 009! I'm sure you'll like and you'll be happy with the 007ii...just stay away from the forum and avoid reading about other amps!!


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## walakalulu

Wise advice that I probably won't follow despite it being the slippery road to discontent.


----------



## David1961

walakalulu said:


> I'm getting the 009s next month and thought long and hard regards the energiser. In the end decided on the Stax 007tll Kimik. The guy who does the Kimik mods has further upgrades in mind so may take advantage as they become available.
> My decision was based on the fact that the shape fits my available space but more importantly I'm just not prepared to import into the UK these no doubt excellent amps that have no backup outside the USA. I don't want to have to return a product across the Atlantic should there be a problem. Luckily should I crave some powerful bass I can use my Audeze instead. Would have been nice to have it all in one package though!




I've heard the SRM-007t ( which I once owned ) and 717 with both the 007mk1 and 009's, I've also heard both Earspeakers with the BHSE and the 009's with the KGSSHV, and I would never buy any of the current Stax amps.
If I only had the space for a Stax amp, then I'd see about getting the mini KGSSHV from Birgir which looks to be around the same size as the Stax amps, I also think it looks very nice.


----------



## astrostar59

I agree here. I know quite a few Stax users both new to the scene and upgrading from earlier models, who were
 woo'ed by the sound of the 009s in a demo with the 007t or the 727. It doesn't take long before that initial wow factor falls away to disappointment.
  
 The 009 is just too good for any of the current Stax amps IMO, as is the hungry 007. If buying the 507s, then yes, a balanced system can be had
 for a realistic price. To really enjoy the 009 and hear what it can do means looking for other amps IMO.
  
 There are a few companies selling in good numbers:
 1. Cavalli Audio.
 (the MK2 I am told is much improved over the MK1)
  
 2. WOO Audio with the WES
 Sounds great with the 009s according to many here (I have not heard it)
  
 3. Eddie Current
  
 4. Head Amp
 a. Head Amp BHSE
 b. Head Amp KGSS (now only second hand)
  
 Think that's it for the 'manufacturers'
  
 Then there are the DIY and Cottage amps
  
 3. KGSShv (various DIY builders or DIY yourself)
 4. KGST (some being built now by the DIY community
 I think there are a few more Kevin G variants? Maybe someone else can chime in?
  
 I would say for sure all the above amps will out perform any Stax amps currently available.
 My own favourite amp in this list is the KGSShv as it has a great sound plus ease of use.


----------



## project86

After trying most of the amps for myself with my 007, I thought the 323 sounded best out of all the Stax amps (possible exception was the 717, which is no longer a current model - the 323 beats a new, unmodified 727 imho).
  
 If you find yourself on the fence about getting a DIY KGSShv built, or spending big money on a BHSE, you might consider going 323 as an affordable short term solution. Run it for a few months or a few years, until you can figure out your permanent direction. The 323 will give you a decent taste of the potential on your 007 without costing very much at all.


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## zolkis

I guess some basic mods on the 323S would make it even better value, especially a better pot and better power supply parts. Is there a modded version around? Or is it not worth the trouble?


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## David1961

I believe there's a mini KGSSHV for sale on Birgir's website now ( unless he's just sold it ) priced at $2950 plus shipping.
Yes more expensive than any of the Stax amps but AKAIK the tax in Iceland is quite high, however I think there's no dealer and distributor involved like there is with Stax equipment which adds to the cost of Stax gear.


----------



## 3X0

astrostar59 said:


> I agree here. I know quite a few Stax users both new to the scene and upgrading from earlier models, who were
> woo'ed by the sound of the 009s in a demo with the 007t or the 727. It doesn't take long before that initial wow factor falls away to disappointment.
> 
> The 009 is just too good for any of the current Stax amps IMO, as is the hungry 007. If buying the 507s, then yes, a balanced system can be had
> ...


spritzer (and I believe KG as well) have gone at length to describe why the WES is a "bad" amp, and likely inferior to current Stax offerings (certainly from a design standpoint).

To be quite honest if you blindly place the WES in that list this overall opinion strikes me as functionally not dissimilar from that of a oenophile who might -- even subconsciously -- attribute price to quality.

I wonder if the minimum threshold you would consider acceptable for the upstream could be defined in dollar terms rather than concrete observed performance..


----------



## SquireC

complin said:


>


 

 That's quite right, and why some of us Head Fi-ers do care about alternatives. Getting a BHSE, for example, in the UK is fantasy land, and we also want alternatives to the Stax amps.
 So what Eric65 is telling us about may be very useful for us Head Fi-ers across the pond. (Stax user since 1975).


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## complin

Hmm... well I think the AudioValve box is trying to be all things to all men which usually means its master of none 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Regarding the 009, it must be one of the easiest to drive headphones Stax have ever produced. I love summin it listening to it on my SRM-252/SRM-XH even though I have a TOTL amp too.
  
 Quote:


squirec said:


> That's quite right, and why some of us Head Fi-ers do care about alternatives. Getting a BHSE, for example, in the UK is fantasy land, and we also want alternatives to the Stax amps.
> So what Eric65 is telling us about may be very useful for us Head Fi-ers across the pond. (Stax user since 1975).


----------



## David1961

I've read the 009's are easy Earspeakers to drive, and yet they are supposed to sound their best when driven by the DIY-T2.


----------



## kevin gilmore

like most other transformer boxes the Verto should work much better with
 Dynahi, SS Dynahi, LAu or Darkstar all of which have much higher
 damping factor than the rkv2 and similar voltage swings, or greater.


----------



## complin

Depends what you mean by best really
 Its like David (no pun intended) and Goliath. The little 252 @ $500 does a great job and yes the T2 at 10 times the cost (just for the parts) does an even better one BUT IMO its not so night and day as you would experience with a 007Mk1 and the same amplifiers.
 I just think perhaps some of the value judgements here have gotten a little out of perspective. The T2 and BH/BHSE were originally designed to drive the original Omega/007Mk1. I have no doubt that its possible to improve on a Stax amp but IMO the 009 is quite happy with much less esoteric fare. I have Stax kit which is knocking on 40 years old and works flawlessly. I doubt this will be the case with some of the alternative manufacturers offerings.   
  
 Quote:


david1961 said:


> I've read the 009's are easy Earspeakers to drive, and yet they are supposed to sound their best when driven by the DIY-T2.


----------



## astrostar59

As I said, I haven't heard the WES, but the BHSE, KGSShv beat the pants off any Stax amp. It is not subtle.
 No, I don't regard price v performance. My KGSShv cost the same as a new Stax 007t.
  
 The WES has had good reviews, Inner Fidelity, 6Moons and many others, plus many users on this forum do like it.
 Just because one person says it's design is flawed doesn't mean it is terrible. BTW have you heard the WES with the 009s?
 Thought not... listen to it first, then come back here.


----------



## astrostar59

You should be ok for a while with your Stax amp. The 009s are such a great phones, they are a blessing and a curse. They give so much information and real audiophile levels of music, but do dig deep and expose the rest of the system i.e. source and amp.
  
 Just enjoy your new system, and don't get hung up on other gear. You can sell a Stax amp easy later on if required. It all depends how drawn in you will be to high end headphone listening. If it becomes real important to you, then continue the search. I tried to stay with my 717 and my 007s but it didn't happen. It wasn't because they were poor, I liked them very much and wanted MORE of it. I am sure many here understand that thought!


----------



## eric65

complin said:


>


 

 Your opinion may change once you have listened to this combo. It also depends what you are looking for: the beauty of listening (sound full and natural) (with 009 + RKV-Verto) or very analytical listening, but a little cold, revealing the slightest imperfection of the recording (still with the 009 but with an other amp). See for yourself.


----------



## barid

Hey, has anyone heard about this RKV Verto box?  I think I saw something somewhere about it.  Is it as amazing as it looks?


----------



## greggf

astrostar, you say, "It all depends how drawn in you will be to high end headphone listening. If it becomes real important to you, then continue the search."
  
 It strikes me as if "continuing the search" is a guarantee that you will never, ever, between now and death,  be satisfied with your audio system.  Unless a person has clinical OCD, of course, in which case the impossible search for a totally subjective and totally impossible perfection is a given, often driving loved ones and forum mates insane in the process as we listen to the same statements over and over and over again lol. 
  
 If you love music, isn't "good enough" the goal?


----------



## astrostar59

We need some owners with this RKV to come on here and tell us how it sounds. I always think it's good to have new players in this hobby, as long as the SQ on offer is aligned with the price. Lets not forget, the Stax amps are good value for what you get, just can be bettered by going elsewhere.
  
 Going back to the previous posts re 009s are easy to drive. Yes, they are compared to the hungry 007s. But easier to drive (can sound full and dynamic with less current) is only part of the story. The SQ on my 717 and older 313 was cold and brittle with the 009s. The parts quality, the trans amp supply and capacity, the rails voltage in the gain stages, it all has a marked effect on the sound. I go back to what I said earlier, if buying the 009s you need a better amp to get close the the phones potential. On the other hand a 007t and a 507 would make sense to me.
  
 The other option to look at for alternative amps is use an energiser powered out the back of a decent EL34 power amp. A review on this forum found that that route had major benefits and was way better than the 007t or the 727. It would make sense if the user already had a valve power amp for example. Food for thought.


----------



## eric65

barid said:


> Hey, has anyone heard about this RKV Verto box?  I think I saw something somewhere about it.  Is it as amazing as it looks?


 
  
 Yes, me: it works very well (RKV amp (II or III) and RKV-Verto combo) with the following headphones (according to what one has reported to me or what I could hear my own ears) :

 Stax SR-009 (RKV-II or III (OTL mode) + Verto)
_Stax SR-007 mk1 or mk2 ? (maybe?) (not tried)_
 STAX Lambda (SR-507) (RKV- II or III (OTL mode) + Verto)
 JPS Abyss (RKV-III ; best in OTL mode)
 Sennheiser HD-800 (RKV-II or III (OTL mode))
 Sennheiser HD-600 (RKV-II)
 Grado PS-1000 (RKV-III : 32 Ohm) (or RKV-II + Impedencer (32 Ohm) or Verto (32 Ohm))


----------



## complin

I have used an RKV for many years for use with dynamics
 Whilst I find it a good amplifier I have found several since which I consider to be superior in many ways
 I use it primarily for powering my AKG K1000's
 The Verto is quite expensive almost the cost of a mid price Stax amplifier so I would not consider buying one to try out and doubt there will be an opportunity to hear one in the UK.
 I stand to be convinced 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quote:


eric65 said:


> Your opinion may change once you have listened to this combo. It also depends what you are looking for: the beauty of listening (sound full and natural) (with 009 + RKV-Verto) or very analytical listening, but a little cold, revealing the slightest imperfection of the recording (still with the 009 but with an other amp). See for yourself.


----------



## complin

Got it in one!!! The grass is always greener.
 Its so easy in this place to get carried away on the hype train. Just don't get on it. there will be another right along shortly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


greggf said:


> astrostar, you say, "It all depends how drawn in you will be to high end headphone listening. If it becomes real important to you, then continue the search."
> 
> It strikes me as if "continuing the search" is a guarantee that you will never, ever, between now and death,  be satisfied with your audio system.  Unless a person has clinical OCD, of course, in which case the impossible search for a totally subjective and totally impossible perfection is a given, often driving loved ones and forum mates insane in the process as we listen to the same statements over and over and over again lol.
> 
> If you love music, isn't "good enough" the goal?


----------



## complin

The WES has quite a tubey sound IMO if you like that sort of thing a bit like rose coloured spectacles. It lacks the neutrality and clarity of such as the BH/BHSE/KGSS. Tyll alluded to this in his review of electrostatic amps.
  
 You are very fortunate not to be able to worry about price vs performance.as many members on here dont have deep pockets. The KGSS and 007t are not really comparative SS vs SS/Tube hybrid. There will be a new version of the KGSS available soon which will be comparative as it too will be a SS/Tube hybrid.
 There are lots of other issues to consider when purchasing a DIY amp like future servicing, parts and build quality and resale value. These are pretty much known quantities with a Stax amp.
  
 On the positive side i'm pleased to see that Spritzer is now growing a business on the back of the likes of the KGSS and other designs. This should hopefully help to negate many of these issues in the future. I wish him every success in his new venture 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> As I said, I haven't heard the WES, but the BHSE, KGSShv beat the pants off any Stax amp. It is not subtle.
> No, I don't regard price v performance. My KGSShv cost the same as a new Stax 007t.
> 
> The WES has had good reviews, Inner Fidelity, 6Moons and many others, plus many users on this forum do like it.
> ...


----------



## eric65

complin said:


>


 
  
 Who knows, maybe one day one of your compatriots, crosses the pitch by ordering in Germany an AudioValve  RKV-Verto combo, and he will then give you the urge to listen to it.
 Or so, with a bit of luck, if you visit our beautiful capital (Paris) at the day of a new public meeting of Headphones in Paris (like the one organized by the HCFR French forum, and sponsors, March 15, 2014, with the presence of Pierre Paya (and its entire collection of amps and headphones).
 Or, more simply by following the news in forum (HCFR and Head-Fi) and news people who will try, in turn, this combo.
 Or finally, by reading a review that will test this combo (provided that it is not damaged during transport; what has already been 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## zolkis

eric65 said:


> Yes, me: it works very well (RKV amp (II or III) and RKV-Verto combo) with the following headphones (according to what one has reported to me or what I could hear my own ears) :
> 
> 
> Stax SR-009 (RKV-II or III (OTL mode) + Verto)
> ...




it would be so nice if you could write a short, or long comparative review about the headphones above... especially because they were consistently driven by the same or similar amplification. Please


----------



## complin

astrostar59 said:


> We need some owners with this RKV to come on here and tell us how it sounds. I always think it's good to have new players in this hobby, as long as the SQ on offer is aligned with the price.* Lets not forget, the Stax amps are good value for what you get*, just can be bettered by going elsewhere.
> 
> *That's precisely my point, especially if you buy used *
> 
> ...


----------



## complin

Well Eric a trip to Paris for a headphone meet sounds great - Do you post these events on this forum on the meets thread. Some of the other EU meets are posted there.
  
 Quote:


eric65 said:


> Who knows, maybe one day one of your compatriots, crosses the pitch by ordering in Germany an AudioValve  RKV-Verto combo, and he will then give you the urge to listen to it.
> Or so, with a bit of luck, if you visit our beautiful capital (Paris) at the day of a new public meeting of Headphones in Paris (like the one organized by the HCFR French forum, and sponsors, March 15, 2014, with the presence of Pierre Paya (and its entire collection of amps and headphones).
> Or, more simply by following the news in forum (HCFR and Head-Fi) and news people who will try, in turn, this combo.
> Or finally, by reading a review that will test this combo (provided that it is not damaged during transport; what has already been
> ...


----------



## eric65

zolkis said:


> it would be so nice if you could write a short, or long comparative review about the headphones above... especially because they were consistently driven by the same or similar amplification. Please


 
  
 Pierre Paya can do (it's a french reseller of all this equipment that it owns and it exposed (in demonstration) for his clients); not me: I own only the RKV-II amp, Verto box, Stax SR-009 and Sennhesier HD-600.
  
 I already spoke (as well as Pierre Paya) on these devices (combo RKV-Verto + 009 _vs_ Stax amp _vs_ Wee box) at this link : http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/3135#post_10863960  
  
 (NB: for more detailed reports and information, follow the Verto thread on HCFR french forum using your favorite translator http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/casques-haute-fidelite/verto-le-boitier-audiovalve-pour-casques-stax-t30052030.html ; it will be still better than my English bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.)


----------



## zolkis

thanks Eric! i understand French, even have some family in Paris, and if there is a meet, I could fly over and also bring some amps and cans.


----------



## georgep

greggf said:


> astrostar, you say, "It all depends how drawn in you will be to high end headphone listening. If it becomes real important to you, then continue the search."
> 
> It strikes me as if "continuing the search" is a guarantee that you will never, ever, between now and death,  be satisfied with your audio system.  Unless a person has clinical OCD, of course, in which case the impossible search for a totally subjective and totally impossible perfection is a given, often driving loved ones and forum mates insane in the process as we listen to the same statements over and over and over again lol.
> 
> If you love music, isn't "good enough" the goal?


 
  
 Totally agree with this. I get the same enjoyment from my music whether listening with my 727 or diy-t2 or Honda Odessey sound system for that matter. I have high end stuff to choose from because I felt like having high end stuff - not because I needed it.
  
 It is also worth noting that the amount of misinformation about the relative qualities and the technical aspects of the varous electrostatic amps that has been posted here in the past couple of days, and even months, is astounding. As always, caveat emptor.


----------



## wink

There is also this Stax amp from Germany
  
 http://www.high-amp.de/html/transistor_v4_eng.html
  
 I have heard the Transistoramp V3, and was quite pleased with it, although the KGSS and KGSSHV ware better.


----------



## nemomec

The german High Amps are very good electrostatic ampflifiers and superior to any stax modell (except maybe T2). Transitoramp V4 and Hybridamp V4 are on the same level like the KGSS, i heard all these amps side by side with a SR-007 MK1.


----------



## purk

nemomec said:


> The german High Amps are very good electrostatic ampflifiers and superior to any stax modell (except maybe T2). Transitoramp V4 and Hybridamp V4 are on the same level like the KGSS, i heard all these amps side by side with a SR-007 MK1.


 
 Great to learn of another amp.  Fortunately, the KGSSHV is superior soundwise to the KGSS and any stax amp out there short of the T2.  Speaking of the Stax amps, I do miss the 717 from time to time.


----------



## David1961

complin said:


> Depends what you mean by best really
> Its like David (no pun intended) and Goliath. The little 252 @ $500 does a great job and yes the T2 at 10 times the cost (just for the parts) does an even better one BUT IMO its not so night and day as you would experience with a 007Mk1 and the same amplifiers.
> I just think perhaps some of the value judgements here have gotten a little out of perspective. The T2 and BH/BHSE were originally designed to drive the original Omega/007Mk1. I have no doubt that its possible to improve on a Stax amp but IMO the 009 is quite happy with much less esoteric fare. I have Stax kit which is knocking on 40 years old and works flawlessly. I doubt this will be the case with some of the alternative manufacturers offerings.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've never heard the DIY T2 [ and probably never will ] so I'm only going by what I've read about the 009's supposedly sounding their best driven by that amp, [ best is down to the individual ] and yes the DIY T2 is a lot more expensive than any of the available stax amps, but what I was thinking of when I wrote my previous post was the DIY T2 is a very powerful amp. Sorry I should've made that clear.


----------



## complin

Thats good to know, I was always curious about these. They look the business as do some others out there, but often can have serious shortcomings through lack of real understanding of what is required an electrostat.
  
 Quote:


nemomec said:


> The german High Amps are very good electrostatic ampflifiers and superior to any stax modell (except maybe T2). Transitoramp V4 and Hybridamp V4 are on the same level like the KGSS, i heard all these amps side by side with a SR-007 MK1.


----------



## complin

Thanks for the clarification
 Yes it is a beast of an amp! I have an original SRM-T2 which was acquired specifically for the Omega/007Mk1 for which it does make a huge difference. However; whilst the 009 does have greater dynamics on the T2 the improvement is not so pronounced as with earlier generation Stax I feel. 
  
 There is one on flebay at the moment if you're feeling flush a mere £15,000 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAX-SRM-T2-SPS-T2-the-amplifier-T2-2-/301305765203?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item4627391d53
  
 Quote:


david1961 said:


> I've never heard the DIY T2 [ and probably never will ] so I'm only going by what I've read about the 009's supposedly sounding their best driven by that amp, [ best is down to the individual ] and yes the DIY T2 is a lot more expensive than any of the available stax amps, but what I was thinking of when I wrote my previous post was the DIY T2 is a very powerful amp. Sorry I should've made that clear.


----------



## astrostar59

> *Think you need to check your facts here as I think the Stax amps in this respect are pretty similar to much of the Boutique/DIY stuff. Its mainly the High End designs which differ greatly like the DIY T2 and BHSE*


 
*Err, the KGSS and KGSShv all run at higher voltage swing and have more amps in the PS than the 007t and 727.*
  
*The KGSShv (most examples) use 450v rails not Stax 350v rails.*


----------



## jackskelly

astrostar59 said:


> I agree here. I know quite a few Stax users both new to the scene and upgrading from earlier models, who were
> woo'ed by the sound of the 009s in a demo with the 007t or the 727. It doesn't take long before that initial wow factor falls away to disappointment.
> 
> The 009 is just too good for any of the current Stax amps IMO, as is the hungry 007. If buying the 507s, then yes, a balanced system can be had
> ...


 
  
 I own the 009's and run them out of a Cavalli LL1, and to me it sounds fantastic when paired with my SACD player or DAC in my current set-up. Unfortunately, the only other amp I've been able to listen to my 009's with is a HGSShv and I defititely thought the LL1 drove it better than the HGSShv (so did the others I believe who listened to both at our recent local meet), I anticipate getting a Blue Hawaii SE in the next few months from Justin, and I'll definitely compare the two amps (LL1 and BHSE), although I think I already have an idea which one I'll prefer


----------



## David1961

jackskelly said:


> I own the 009's and run them out of a Cavalli LL1, and to me it sounds fantastic when paired with my SACD player or DAC in my current set-up. Unfortunately, the only other amp I've been able to listen to my 009's with is a HGSShv and I defititely thought the LL1 drove it better than the HGSShv (so did the others I believe who listened to both at our recent local meet), I anticipate getting a Blue Hawaii SE in the next few months from Justin, and I'll definitely compare the two amps (LL1 and BHSE), although I think I already have an idea which one I'll prefer


 
  
 Around a couple of months after I received the BHSE, I got to hear the LLmk1 with my BHSE and at that time the SQ from both sounded very similar, however since that time I've started using the Psvane EL34PH's with my BHSE which to me has improved the SQ quite a lot, also when I heard the LLmk1 and BHSE together the source being used was my K-01, and I believe that source will improve any amp.


----------



## jackskelly

david1961 said:


> Around a couple of months after I received the BHSE, I got to hear the LLmk1 with my BHSE and at that time the SQ from both sounded very similar, however since that time I've started using the Psvane EL34PH's with my BHSE which to me has improved the SQ quite a lot, also when I heard the LLmk1 and BHSE together the source being used was my K-01, and I believe that source will improve any amp.


 
  
 That's interesting. After getting the BHSE, I'll probably get a better source (like a $2000-$5000 DAC), as that's the main part in my chain that will be lagging behind my amp, cables and headphones. If I could get a K-01, perhaps used, that would be fabulous, haha, but I just can't spend that kind of money yet on a DAC. I'm sure your K-01 would improve the sound of almost any set-up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I do plan on using your past posts as a guide to getting better tubes eventually on my BHSE. Thanks so much for the experimentation and documentation of your listening results over the past months. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll of course start listening to the BHSE with it's stock tubes and once I get to know their sound signature pretty well, I'll probably buy the Psvanes or something else.


----------



## David1961

jackskelly said:


> That's interesting. After getting the BHSE, I'll probably get a better source (like a $2000-$5000 DAC), as that's the main part in my chain that will be lagging behind my amp, cables and headphones. If I could get a K-01, perhaps used, that would be fabulous, haha, but I just can't spend that kind of money yet on a DAC. I'm sure your K-01 would improve the sound of almost any set-up
> 
> I do plan on using your past posts as a guide to getting better tubes eventually on my BHSE. Thanks so much for the experimentation and documentation of your listening results over the past months.
> 
> I'll of course start listening to the BHSE with it's stock tubes and once I get to know their sound signature pretty well, I'll probably buy the Psvanes or something else.




If you ever decided to get a K-01, then I'd suggest you have a look on PriceJapan.com

The Psvane EL34PH tubes are the best I've heard with my BHSE, but some that's heard those tubes and have also heard NOS Mullard's, say be Mullard's sound better than the PH's.


----------



## jackskelly

david1961 said:


> If you ever decided to get a K-01, then I'd suggest you have a look on PriceJapan.com
> 
> The Psvane EL34PH tubes are the best I've heard with my BHSE, but some that's heard those tubes and have also heard NOS Mullard's, say be Mullard's sound better than the PH's.





So you've never heard the NOS Mullards? Do you plan on doing so eventually? Are they particularly rare or expensive?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Both, I think.
 The PSVane EL34PH are easily found around the net @ 350-370 $. Which is a steal considering the amount of money We (Stax addicts) can spend in this hobby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## Golfnutz

ali-pacha said:


> Both, I think.
> The PSVane EL34PH are easily found around the net @ 350-370 $. Which is a steal considering the amount of money We (Stax addicts) can spend in this hobby
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I would trade 2 brand new reliable quads of the Psvane EL34PH for 1 used quad that tests good of the Mullard xf2 in a heartbeat.


----------



## David1961

jackskelly said:


> So you've never heard the NOS Mullards? Do you plan on doing so eventually? Are they particularly rare or expensive?




No I've never heard the NOS Mullard's but I'd like to, however I've got two quads of PH's, a quad of SED's and those stock Mullard's that came with the BHSE, so if I did decide to get any NOS Mullard's it won't be for quite along time, but by the time I'd be ready to get some there might be none available.

Another tube I'd like to try is the NOS Philips Holland Metal Base.


----------



## complin

I believe the 727 and 717 are both 450 volts which is a comparable amp to the KGSS/hv
  
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> *Err, the KGSS and KGSShv all run at higher voltage swing and have more amps in the PS than the 007t and 727.*
> 
> *The KGSShv (most examples) use 450v rails not Stax 350v rails.*


----------



## Golfnutz

david1961 said:


> No I've never heard the NOS Mullard's but I'd like to, however I've got two quads of PH's, a quad of SED's and those stock Mullard's that came with the BHSE, so if I did decide to get any NOS Mullard's it won't be for quite along time, but by the time I'd be ready to get some there might be none available.
> 
> Another tube I'd like to try is the NOS Philips Holland Metal Base.


 
 One of the reasons I would do the 2-for-1 swap is the first quad of PH tubes I had (very reliable) started to fail after 10 months (2500 hours). My feeling is the Mullards would probably out last 2 quads of PH's. I also think the better the source, the better one would hear the difference between the two. Not that my source is end game, but I think it's good enough to allow me to hear enough of a difference to know which one is clearly better. As a reference, when I first heard the PH tubes I had the same experience that David has been posting. However, with the Mullards, I had even more of the same experience. So ShuguangTreasures (6CA7) to PH = WOW what a difference, then PH to Mullard = holy crap, I've been an idiot.


----------



## astrostar59

complin said:


>


 
 Err wrong dude:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/582518/electrostatic-amplifiers-voltage-ratings


----------



## complin

All I can say is that Stax state 450 volts in their specification for the 727.
 Also as Kevin also says* "For solid state amplifiers, the output voltage is usually very close to the power supply rails"*
  
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> Err wrong dude:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/582518/electrostatic-amplifiers-voltage-ratings


----------



## astrostar59

Kevin also states the swing is much lower on the Stax amps. And then we have the amps reserves in the power supply, the 727 is around 4 MA, the off-board KGSShv 10Ma and can go up to 14Ma. I can hear myself that my 717 is on the limit with even the 009s, never mind the 007s. Wind it up a bit and loose bass and edgy treble are the norm. The sound changes in pitch, it just sounds rough on any material with decent bass and dynamics in.
  
 Aside from all this, are you saying the 727 is a great sounding amp that is as good as say a KGSShv off-board, or the BHSE? I don't see the logic in this discussion. I have the 717 here, and used it last week on my same system, and let say for the last time, it sounds crude, cold and sterile compared to the KGSShv. It doesn't suck, but it is night and day. Well behind IMO, on both the 007 MK2s and the 009s. These phones sound lame on the 717/727 sorry. With the 507s however, that is a decent system, and makes nice music and costs a sensible amount for the phones and amp. A pair of 009s powered by the 727, it is not good value for the SQ on offer.


----------



## David1961

golfnutz said:


> One of the reasons I would do the 2-for-1 swap is the first quad of PH tubes I had (very reliable) started to fail after 10 months (2500 hours). My feeling is the Mullards would probably out last 2 quads of PH's. I also think the better the source, the better one would hear the difference between the two. Not that my source is end game, but I think it's good enough to allow me to hear enough of a difference to know which one is clearly better. As a reference, when I first heard the PH tubes I had the same experience that David has been posting. However, with the Mullards, I had even more of the same experience. So ShuguangTreasures (6CA7) to PH = WOW what a difference, then PH to Mullard = holy crap, I've been an idiot.




As I say, I'd very much like to try the NOS Mullard's and especially the NOS Philips Holland Metal Base, but just supposing I did get to try them both with my BHSE and preferred them to the Psvane PH's, either still wouldn't be the next audio gear I'd get after my new kitchen and conservatory are done, that next piece of audio equipment would be a new headphone amp, assuming the builder was to do that amp because at the moment it's only in the pipeline.


----------



## greggf

astrostar,
  
 I have a simple question for you:
  
 At what volume levels do you listen to music on STAX headphones?


----------



## astrostar59

Quiet, loud, it depends how I feel and the material type. My point is the way to test (review) stat amps has always been to listen to the upper level of normal, as Inner Fidelity realised (and was recommended technique by the head-fi community they talked to at the time of that big review). Tyler kinda thought the 007t was well behind the other amps ....


----------



## Moonhead

Astrostar 

Be carefull Playing too loud, eventually you will damage your hearing. 

Read this 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/loud-music-sucks


----------



## Michgelsen

I have a question. I feel like a sinner because of it, and don't let the mafia know:
  
 What dynamic cans most closely resemble the SR-007 in tonal balance and presentation? Must be relatively easy to drive, in production and open (not closed). Price should not exceed that of an SR-007.
  
 I'm thinking of building a compact (backup) rig around my m903, which has a decent dynamic amp inside, but it's obviously not K1000 capable or anything like that. It does have crossfeed however, which I would like to try.
  
 Would something like the HD600 or HD650 be an option? I have little experience with dynamic cans, so I could use some advice. I did own the HD650 years ago, but remember thinking it had a bit too much bass. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## georgep

astrostar59 said:


> Kevin also states the swing is much lower on the Stax amps. And then we have the amps reserves in the power supply, the 727 is around 4 MA, the off-board KGSShv 10Ma and can go up to 14Ma. I can hear myself that my 717 is on the limit with even the 009s, never mind the 007s. Wind it up a bit and loose bass and edgy treble are the norm. The sound changes in pitch, it just sounds rough on any material with decent bass and dynamics in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Just a few comments:

Don't know the current rating for the 727, but the KGSSHV outboard is not 10ma without modification. Besides, Spritzer has commented numerous times that there is no audible difference between stock (which I believe is 5.5ma) and higher current ratings.

The 727 with the feedback mod (changing two resistors) has received Stax mafia approval and is a bit better than the 717 post-mod. With the transistor mod (slightly more intensive work), the 727 is essentially a lower powered KGSSHV. Justin of HeadAmp has also commented (either here or at the other site) that the current Stax amps are great value for the money and that he could not compete with the prices they charge. That is not to say that a KGSSHV might not be better for a greater premium, but the 009 does not sound lame on a 727 (modded or un-modded) or a 323s. As well the KGSS and 717 are very similar amps.

I think Milosz in an earlier post was quite spot on about the differences between the Stax branded amps and the cottage/diy amps. The solid-state Stax amps are a great bang for the buck (I cannot speak about the tubed ones though as I have never heard them).


----------



## Moonhead

michgelsen said:


> I have a question. I feel like a sinner because of it, and don't let the mafia know:
> 
> What dynamic cans most closely resemble the SR-007 in tonal balance and presentation? Must be relatively easy to drive, in production and open (not closed). Price should not exceed that of an SR-007.
> 
> ...




HD650 with a neutral AMP or ortho if you are willing to go in that direction. 
Alternatives could be LCD2 or HE500.


----------



## kevin gilmore

srm-007t, srm-006t,srm717,srm727  are all +/-350V power supplies
 caps are usually 400V caps and the supply is unregulated, so there
 has to be room for high line.
  
 The stax spec is Volts RMS stator to stator
  
 kgsshv is either +/-450v or +/-500v power supplies
  
 T2 is +/-500V power supplies
  
 koss is +/-600V power supplies


----------



## astrostar59

Great post. I had read that article before. A friend of mine got Tinnitis during the years of being a DJ
 in his left ear (mixing ear).
  
 My point was Tyler tried the stat amps at higher volume levels to check if they could handle the dynamics
 and started clipping. It wasn't a normal listening recommendation. Listen to the 007s are 'normal'
 listening levels, and you will still hear the 717/727 or 323 amp at it's limits on dynamic music. It is quite obvious.
  
 I can hear it at 12 o'clock on an RCA line input with 2v max line feed from a source.
  
 I would not recommend anyone to listen at high volume on any headphones.
  
 Another point on this subject, a cheap or poor sounding speaker or headphone system can do more damage
 due to 2nd order distortion and artefacts, especially in the higher frequency region as we often get with low budget
 IEMs.


----------



## greggf

So, as I quoted earlier, spritzer says that most stat amps are idling at "normal" listening levels.  And Tyll says that he was advised to crank up the volume beyond "normal" listening levels in order to hear any differences between the amps.
  
 And, therefore, the STAX amps sound as good as anything else at "normal" listening levels, eh?
  
 Cool.  So boutique amps only sound better when you're deliberately going out of your way to damage your hearing in a systematic fashion?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Stax amp's are great value for the money...looking at US prices, and of course japanese prices.
 In France, think about a ridiculous 3000 € (3850 $) for an official SRM-727II 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 BTW, when I compare this last one to my old (but re-capped) SRM-1/mk2 pro, everything is better (dynamics, details, extension, power, soundstage, etc...), except two things :
 - Linearity. When pushing the SRM-727II, high-mids can become shouty. Noticeable on acoustic music with low recording volume
 - Bass texture. Bass on the SRM-727II is a kind of over-the-top / bloating mixture, when it remains very tight (but one-could-find-it-meager) on the SRM-1/mk2 pro
  
 Ali


----------



## astrostar59

> Don't know the current rating for the 727, but the KGSSHV outboard is not 10ma without modification. Besides, Spritzer has commented numerous times that there is no audible difference between stock (which I believe is 5.5ma) and higher current ratings.


 
 Wrong. The max Ma for the on-board KGSShv is 5.5Ma due to the heat dissipation. The Off-board as standard is 10Ma, but many have tweaked it up to 14Ma.
  
 Not sure if the 727 is better than the 717, but it would need to be WAY better IMO. I am not saying the Stax amps are not any good, they are for the price point, I am saying a Stax amp built to a budget of £1800 - 50% dealer commission and you are talking a £900 amp. So yes, the 727 is really good for a £900 amp! BTW many DIY KGSShv's have been bought for round £1600 with good quality parts. If you are brave, you can do one for a lot less than that.
  
 The KGSS is similar in design, but I am informed by those who heard both the Justin amp is better, probably as it has better parts quality.
  
 I wish there were more demo's available to spread the word. It is too difficult to do this with words, your ears will tell you more than this forum. However, the Stat amp world is quite small and if outside of the states, not much chance to hear alternatives. 
  
 Don't you know anyone with a BHSE or KGSShv to try out?


----------



## jcx

michgelsen said:


> I have a question. I feel like a sinner because of it, and don't let the mafia know:
> 
> What dynamic cans most closely resemble the SR-007 in tonal balance and presentation? Must be relatively easy to drive, in production and open (not closed). Price should not exceed that of an SR-007.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 there's always EQ - much cheaper to get one decent, mostly flat full range response with low distortion headphone - then make it sound like you want
  
 EQ can be done at a much higher quality and level of sophistication than many appreciate - just doesn't get you the name dropping, conspicuous consumption, audiophile connoisseur points
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/612665/how-far-can-eq-really-go-towards-truly-equalizing-headphones#post_8429154 below
  
 Quote:


udauda said:


> FYI:
> http://www.cpt.univ-mrs.fr/~briolle/11thAESpart1.pdf
> http://www.cpt.univ-mrs.fr/~briolle/11thAESpart2.pdf
> 
> Indeed, we can certainly save some money.


 
  
  
 for more fun think about what the Smyth SVS Realizer is doing when it makes your headphones sound like the loudspeaker/room system you calibrated in - you can also calibrate, use different headphones with the same personal HRTF room calibrations
  
http://smyth-research.com/
  
 what makes you think "the headphone's soundstage" can't be manipulated?
  
  
  


jcx said:


> "minimum phase" linear filters - like most analog EQ, and DSP IIR filters actually compensate for the minimum phase shift associated with amplitude variations in the transducer - EQ for flat frequency response and you improve the phase response
> 
> multi-driver transducers and the output above cone breakup at higher frequencies aren't "minimum phase" so linear EQ doesn't fully correct the "excess phase" part of the response
> 
> ...


----------



## paradoxper

Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> Wrong. The max Ma for the on-board KGSShv is 5.5Ma due to the heat dissipation. The Off-board as standard is 10Ma, but many have tweaked it up to 14Ma.



  
 You can build out the HV to whatever flavor you truly desire. As Kevin has said that's the beauty of *DIY* you can use the overpriced RK50 and silver wire or
 crank the bias to all hell. So there's no real standard.


----------



## doyouknowSBmean

What's the price of a pair of omega I?


----------



## georgep

astrostar59 said:


> Wrong. The max Ma for the on-board KGSShv is 5.5Ma due to the heat dissipation. The Off-board as standard is 10Ma, but many have tweaked it up to 14Ma.
> 
> .....
> 
> Don't you know anyone with a BHSE or KGSShv to try out?



 


Sorry, could you tell me how many KGSSHVs you have built? I have built two off-board and one on-board (uncased). I have also built a DIY-T2. I think I know what I am talking about when I tell you that 10ma is not the "standard" for the offboard - it is a modification, though a very easy modification any diy-er can do as they build. Diy'ers were encouraged not to up the curent for the on-board because of heat dissipation issues. And for the most part the parts quality is the same for these diy builds as most people tend to use the same resistors and caps as everyone else (the pot being the only real differentiator). I get the sense you are just parroting inaccuracies. As well, I did not get the sense that you have heard the 727, yet you keep making statements about it.


----------



## negura

paradoxper said:


> Quote:
> 
> You can build out the HV to whatever flavor you truly desire. As Kevin has said that's the beauty of *DIY* you can use the overpriced RK50 and silver wire or
> crank the bias to all hell. So there's no real standard.




Agreed re the beauty of DIY. As per a couple of pages ago Kevin himself is rocking a 20mA 600v supplies HV. I would not say no to hearing one of those if however possible.


----------



## loligagger

doyouknowsbmean said:


> What's the price of a pair of omega I?


 

 Anywhere from $3k to $6k (give or take), depending on the condition.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

doyouknowsbmean said:


> What's the price of a pair of omega I?


 
 Ask wiktor 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## kevin gilmore

negura said:


> Agreed re the beauty of DIY. As per a couple of pages ago Kevin himself is rocking a 20mA 600v supplies HV. I would not say no to hearing one of those if however possible.


 
  
 That is a completely different gain and output stage. Off board only and very large heatsinks


----------



## complin

Sorry I just don't get it !!
 So you criticise an amp for clipping at volumes way way above normal listening levels that would damage your hearing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Its like playing a speaker amp so you can annoy the neighbours 1/2  a mile away and then complaining thats clipping too
  
 Sorry but I just don't hear and have never heard the Stax amplifiers you list being at their limits on dynamic music at normal listening levels. You must have issues elsewhere in your audio chain or are playing music at insanely high levels.
  
 I don't dispute the KGSShv with outboard power supply can handle musical dynamics much better, but then we are comparing apples with oranges, not apples with apples, so an unfair comparison
  
  
  
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> Great post. I had read that article before. A friend of mine got Tinnitis during the years of being a DJ
> in his left ear (mixing ear).
> 
> My point was Tyler tried the stat amps at higher volume levels to check if they could handle the dynamics
> ...


----------



## NoPants

there is a bit too much hyperbole thrown around when mentioning current delivery numbers, not to mention voltages


----------



## complin

Yes the voltage swing is lower
 However; you keep trying to compare stuff that is not comparable in both topology and technology. Its very important to compare like with like.
 I would sure hope the KGSShv off-board is superior but then Stax only ever produced a very few amps like this the T2 being one of them
 You are entitled to your opinion but I doubt you will find many Stax users here who would describe the 717 as crude, cold and sterile. However; I would agree that the Stax SS amps don't help with the bright top end of the 009.  
   
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> Kevin also states the swing is much lower on the Stax amps. And then we have the amps reserves in the power supply, the 727 is around 4 MA, the off-board KGSShv 10Ma and can go up to 14Ma. I can hear myself that my 717 is on the limit with even the 009s, never mind the 007s. Wind it up a bit and loose bass and edgy treble are the norm. The sound changes in pitch, it just sounds rough on any material with decent bass and dynamics in.
> 
> Aside from all this, are you saying the 727 is a great sounding amp that is as good as say a KGSShv off-board, or the BHSE? I don't see the logic in this discussion. I have the 717 here, and used it last week on my same system, and let say for the last time, it sounds crude, cold and sterile compared to the KGSShv. It doesn't suck, but it is night and day. Well behind IMO, on both the 007 MK2s and the 009s. These phones sound lame on the 717/727 sorry. With the 507s however, that is a decent system, and makes nice music and costs a sensible amount for the phones and amp. A pair of 009s powered by the 727, it is not good value for the SQ on offer.


----------



## complin

Well I would be the first to say that a decent power supply and good "power" delivery will make a huge difference to any audio system
 If you have been around audio for any length of time, especially in two channel speaker audio its often the quality of the power supply which is the differentiating factor in terms of providing top audio quality and being able to reproduce something like the dynamics of the original music. 
  
 Quote:


nopants said:


> there is a bit too much hyperbole thrown around when mentioning current delivery numbers, not to mention voltages


----------



## jackskelly

moonhead said:


> Astrostar
> 
> Be carefull Playing too loud, eventually you will damage your hearing.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is a very important topic. I always try to be conscious of the volume level when listening to my rig, but sometimes inevitably I find myself listening to my system too loud (especially when I'm really enjoying the music of course). The problem (maybe not really a problem) I've found with STAX rigs (and maybe this goes for most or all high-end headphones rigs) is that you can easily turn the volume up to dangerous levels without realizing it at first, just because the distortion is so low and the sound is so crystal clear.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

jackskelly said:


> The problem (maybe not really a problem) I've found with STAX rigs [...] is that you can easily turn the volume up to dangerous levels without realizing it at first, just because the distortion is so low and the sound is so crystal clear.


 
 This. Indeed.

 Ali


----------



## edstrelow

astrostar59 said:


> Kevin also states the swing is much lower on the Stax amps. And then we have the amps reserves in the power supply, the 727 is around 4 MA, the off-board KGSShv 10Ma and can go up to 14Ma. I can hear myself that my 717 is on the limit with even the 009s, never mind the 007s. Wind it up a bit and loose bass and edgy treble are the norm. The sound changes in pitch, it just sounds rough on any material with decent bass and dynamics in.
> 
> Aside from all this, are you saying the 727 is a great sounding amp that is as good as say a KGSShv off-board, or the BHSE? I don't see the logic in this discussion. I have the 717 here, and used it last week on my same system, and let say for the last time, it sounds crude, cold and sterile compared to the KGSShv. It doesn't suck, but it is night and day. Well behind IMO, on both the 007 MK2s and the 009s. These phones sound lame on the 717/727 sorry. With the 507s however, that is a decent system, and makes nice music and costs a sensible amount for the phones and amp. A pair of 009s powered by the 727, it is not good value for the SQ on offer.


 
 Kevin Gilmore notes that the E-9 on the  Koss ESP 9 system has the highest voltage swing and yet by common consent and my personal experience it is a crappy amp. So is this measurement any kind of reliable indicator of sound quality?
  
2400 volts peak to peak stator to stator (+/-600 power supplies)
koss esp950
  
a


----------



## NoPants

^ this is of what I'm getting at, you can't just slap X ma on the output stage, or cite Y volts swing.


----------



## kevin gilmore

edstrelow said:


> Kevin Gilmore notes that the E-9 on the  Koss ESP 9 system has the highest voltage swing and yet by common consent and my personal experience it is a crappy amp. So is this measurement any kind of reliable indicator of sound quality?
> 
> [COLOR=1F497D]2400 volts peak to peak stator to stator (+/-600 power supplies)[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=1F497D]koss esp950[/COLOR]
> ...




you should look at the esp950 schematic to know why it sounds so lousy.
one item is the massive amounts of feedback courtesy of a front end opamp.
another is the 25 microamps of bias current.

what you want is enough current in the output stage to keep the amp in class
A all the way to clipping with a sine wave at 20khz into 120pf


----------



## n3rdling

astrostar59 said:


> Kevin also states the swing is much lower on the Stax amps. And then we have the amps reserves in the power supply, the 727 is around 4 MA, the off-board KGSShv 10Ma and can go up to 14Ma. I can hear myself that my 717 is on the limit with even the 009s, never mind the 007s. Wind it up a bit and loose bass and edgy treble are the norm. The sound changes in pitch, it just sounds rough on any material with decent bass and dynamics in.
> 
> Aside from all this, are you saying the 727 is a great sounding amp that is as good as say a KGSShv off-board, or the BHSE? I don't see the logic in this discussion. I have the 717 here, and used it last week on my same system, and let say for the last time, it sounds crude, cold and sterile compared to the KGSShv. It doesn't suck, but it is night and day. Well behind IMO, on both the 007 MK2s and the 009s. These phones sound lame on the 717/727 sorry. With the 507s however, that is a decent system, and makes nice music and costs a sensible amount for the phones and amp. A pair of 009s powered by the 727, it is not good value for the SQ on offer.


 
  
 Can't agree with much of anything you say. 
  
 The 717 is actually one of the warmest sounding SS electrostatic amps there is. 
  
 Don't agree that the 007 or 009 sounds lame on the 717 or 727 (which it seems like you haven't even heard).  The 007/717 pairing is a classic and generally well regarded.  A modded 727 sounds even better.  In fact I would easily take a 717 or modded 727 over a number of expensive 3rd party amps, notably the WES and LLmk1.  The 009 isn't as difficult a load and sounds marvelous from something like a T1, let alone the 717/727. 
  
 The headphone makes a much, much, much bigger difference to the sound than the amp, so saying a 507 with one of these amps is good yet a 007/009 with one of these amps sounds lame just makes no sense to me.  I'd take the 009 out of basically any amp over the 507 with a DIYT2.


----------



## yawg

michgelsen said:


> I have a question. I feel like a sinner because of it, and don't let the mafia know:
> 
> What dynamic cans most closely resemble the SR-007 in tonal balance and presentation? Must be relatively easy to drive, in production and open (not closed). Price should not exceed that of an SR-007.
> 
> ...


 

 When I first auditioned a Stax Lambda Nova Classic and compared it to a HD-600 the difference was appaling. I went for the Stax of course.
  
 The difference was like day and night. I had a good friend with me who  had never used cans before and his reaction was exactly the same ...
  
 Fuggedabout all the dynamic "crap" is my advice. Anyway when I'm travelling with my bicycle I still keep my trusty ole Sony CD-777 ready to listen to the music on my netbook ...


----------



## David1961

I have the HD-600's ( I use a silver custom cable with those headphones ) which after selling the GS-Xmk2 I now use with my Pico Slim ( but not often ), and I once had the SR-007mk1 which at the time was driven by the SRM-007t.
While the 007's were more airy, when it comes to detail I much prefer the HD-600 even with the Pico Slim over the 007 / SRM-007t. However when I had that Stax combo the source I had was the Esoteric X-03se not the K-01.


----------



## walakalulu

I borrowed the 009 + 007tll kimik for a week last month. I used the energiser single ended driven by my Nagra cdp with an output of only 1v at 0db. Whilst I needed to crank up the volume to 7 or 8 for my fairly loud listening level I didn't hear any harshness or flatlining at all. Admit it wasn't as 'gutsy' as my Audeze setup but didn't detect any distortion. In fact I ordered it. I preferred single ended to balanced but I'm weird that way...


----------



## 3X0

astrostar59 said:


> As I said, I haven't heard the WES, but the BHSE, KGSShv beat the pants off any Stax amp. It is not subtle.
> No, I don't regard price v performance. My KGSShv cost the same as a new Stax 007t.
> 
> The WES has had good reviews, Inner Fidelity, 6Moons and many others, plus many users on this forum do like it.
> ...


The Texas sharpshooter will stress the opinions that are consistent with his/her perceptions, and reject any opinions running contrariwise (even if those opinions are from the same respected thought leaders).

Then of course we have kettle logic where the subject uses an appeal to authority to defend an opinion he/she admittedly has no firsthand experience with, then criticises his/her opponent on the false assumption that his/her opponent also has no firsthand experience.

The WES is audibly flawed against Stax offerings.


----------



## complin

This is what Tyll @ innerfidelity thought of the WES
  
_"Unfortunately, while the WES was superb with sweet acoustic music, *it tended towards a bit sloppy when faced with driving dynamic tracks, and slightly confused with large orchestral works. Running the volume control up only served to make matters worse.*_
_I'll recommend the Woo WES for all *those who love the lush sound of tubes*. Its creamy delivery combined with the brilliant articulation of the SR-009 is a great combination for acoustic chamber and jazz ensembles. But if your tastes run the gamut into driving rock, EDM, and large orchestral works the improved driver control of the next two amps (BHSE, LL) might better suit you."_
 


astrostar59 said:


> As I said, I haven't heard the WES, but the BHSE, KGSShv beat the pants off any Stax amp. It is not subtle.
> No, I don't regard price v performance. My KGSShv cost the same as a new Stax 007t.
> 
> The WES has had good reviews, Inner Fidelity, 6Moons and many others, plus many users on this forum do like it.
> ...





  
  
  
 Quote:


3x0 said:


> The Texas sharpshooter will stress the opinions that are consistent with his/her perceptions, and reject any opinions running contrariwise (even if those opinions are from the same respected thought leaders).
> 
> Then of course we have kettle logic where the subject uses an appeal to authority to defend an opinion he/she admittedly has no firsthand experience with, then criticises his/her opponent on the false assumption that his/her opponent also has no firsthand experience.
> 
> The WES is audibly flawed against Stax offerings.


----------



## rgs9200m

walakalulu said:


> I borrowed the 009 + 007tll kimik for a week last month. I used the energiser single ended driven by my Nagra cdp with an output of only 1v at 0db. Whilst I needed to crank up the volume to 7 or 8 for my fairly loud listening level I didn't hear any harshness or flatlining at all. Admit it wasn't as 'gutsy' as my Audeze setup but didn't detect any distortion. In fact I ordered it. I preferred single ended to balanced but I'm weird that way...


 
 Hey, I had this bizarre result myself. My 009 sounds better, a bit warmer, with single-ended input to my 007t amp vs. balanced with the exact same interconnect cable type. 
 I tried it many times, thinking I was imagining things, but found it strange but true. I have an EMM Xds1 v1. The EMM output is 2.5v single ended, but 5v balanced, if that makes any difference, but I wouldn't know.


----------



## astrostar59

Balanced implementation often sounds worse than single ended, as the manufacturer of an amplifier has to spend a lot of the available budget to make it true balanced. That is, a second winding on the transformer. If you are avoiding long interconnects, I also found single ended sounds better on my 717 amp. Also if possible, use the sources volume and set Stax amp as direct (bypass the pot). I am not sure if that feature is on the 007t/ It is on the 727/717.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## eric65

complin said:


>


 
_" Well Eric a trip to Paris for a headphone meet sounds great - Do you post these events on this forum on the meets thread. Some of the other EU meets are posted there."_
  
 Hello,
  
 I talked on forum HCFR (thread Stax and Verto) for your interest in a new day "headphones and amps" (public meeting) on Paris (in 2015?) for a presentation of the latest headphones and amplifiers high-end as for example the combo AudioValve RKV II -Verto + Stax SR 009 or RKV III + JPS Abyss.
 Pierre Paya (who has all this equipment) is now ready to start for a new day "headphones and amps" (as already carried out March 15, 2014 in a hotel in Paris).
 The question is asked also to the organizers and directors of the HCFR forum to renew such a day in 2015 on Paris (ongoing reflection).
 As soon as I know a little more for the date (If date, there is a day in 2015), I would say to you, as well as the Head-Fi members, by opening a section in the events topic of Head-Fi.
 Links:  http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178240578.html#p178240578 (thread Stax) and http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178240561.html#p178240561 (thread Verto)
  
  
 Otherwise, if you are interested, here's a link to a small comparison (by Pierre Paya) between two amplifiers AudioValve RKV II and the RKV III, but also the Rudistor RP030 on the headphones JPS Abyss (quite demanding in amplification) : link: http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178242347.html#p178242347
  
 Eric


----------



## wink

What?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

No BHSE owner or waiting for this grail ? We've also prepared an entertaining stoning session at this forthcoming parisian meet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (You could use lundahl transformers if you want).

 Ali


----------



## Golfnutz

wink said:


> What?


 
 Pierre Paya went to a Hotel in Paris, to reflect. I think.


----------



## complin

No I think he is a business seller of headphone http://www.casques-headphones.com/index
  





  
 Quote:


golfnutz said:


> Pierre Paya went to a Hotel in Paris, to reflect. I think.


----------



## eric65

complin said:


>


 
 It is true, as well as it's a friend and also a very good tester of headphones (in blind or not)
  
 See our meeting of 7-8 September 2013 at my home, with Karim, Frederic, Pierre and I (Eric)
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/681814/amplifiers-shootout-for-stax-009-eddie-current-electra-audiovalve-rkv-wooaudio-wee-stax-srm727-srm007t2


----------



## eric65

eric65 said:


> *Listen, listen, listen; some attention, ladies and gentlemen; Here are the results of the first Hunger games audio* (comparison of amplifiers with headphones Stax SR-009).
> 
> *Six tributes at the start*:
> District 1: WooAudio Wee Wee modified and unmodified (coupled to RKV-II amplifier)
> ...


 
  
  
  
*Verto 1 vs Verto 2 (following the confrontation)*
  

  
  
*One Winner : District 12 : Verto 2 Box *(with RKV II amp and Stax SR-009 or SR-507) 
  
 Link : http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178243864.html#p178243864


----------



## barid

so like....i guess youre a fan of the verto box?  please tell us some more details i'm very interested.


----------



## blubliss

go away, please.


----------



## eric65

barid said:


> so like....i guess youre a fan of the verto box?  please tell us some more details i'm very interested.


 
  
 I discovered, just like you. 
  
 A test translation (partial):
  
 " The gap is widening a little more with the SRM727 and the Woo Audio Wee. 

 Anecdote: 
 Before announcing here that the best extension of Verto 2 at high frequencies do not cause hardness, I left my SR-009 and tried my SR-507. 
 The 507 is  less soft than the 009. 
 Then I connected the 507 and I listened. 
 Time passed and it was only after a while, I do not know, maybe 20/30 minutes, I realized that I still had the 507 on the ears ... I forgot ... 
 Finally I kept it still a good time and I loved the beautiful sounds of all RKVII / Verto 2 / SR-507. 
 The SR-009 of course brings me further than the SR507, but frankly, this is the best cession of listening I made to date with a 507, headphone that yet I know by heart. 
 I heard among many, the piece of anthology: Mediterranean Sundance, from the album "Friday Night in San Francisco" and played among others by the late Paco de Lucia. 
 Both guitars have best contours with Verto 2 ; attacks strings sharper, more accurate. 
 Overall I feel I have been a light veil over all when I return to the Verto 1.  
 I heard these criteria better highlighted with Verto 2 of all the songs I listened to. 
 Listening to classical music, ditto, more accuracy and transparency, but the violins will not fail over so far towards a more sound "slender" or 'leaner' 
 They are better defined, rise above with more energy and are at the same time more purposes, just as soft, and 'fluffy '. "
  
 http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178243864.html#p178243864


----------



## kevin gilmore

I guess it was time, but the stax mafia is working hard on a circlotron for electrostatics.
 I have 2 versions, one of which is all solid state, and fully dc coupled, and the
 other uses a pair of 6s4's for the gain stage, and either triodes, or ultra low
 capacitance silicon carbide fets for the outputs and is also fully dc coupled.
  
 circlotrons make my brain hurt.  Its all Jason's fault.


----------



## edstrelow

kevin gilmore said:


> I guess it was time, but the stax mafia is working hard on a circlotron for electrostatics.
> I have 2 versions, one of which is all solid state, and fully dc coupled, and the
> other uses a pair of 6s4's for the gain stage, and either triodes, or ultra low
> capacitance silicon carbide fets for the outputs and is also fully dc coupled.
> ...


 
  
  
 Don't know much about these designs but will it look like this one?


----------



## kevin gilmore

not going to be that big.

The atmaspheres are AC coupled and into high impedance can probably
only do 100 vpp

mine are dc coupled and 2000 vppss


----------



## arnaud

eric65 said:


> Hello,
> 
> [Incomprehensible metaphysical question or assersion made in this bracket]
> 
> Eric


 
  
 The answer is 42 eric.


----------



## Ra97oR

All that talk on a modded 727 sounding nice... decisions decisions.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

arnaud said:


> The answer is 42 eric.


 
 And Abyss are still better phones than 007 and 009. Period.

 Ali


----------



## kothganesh

Listening to the Led Zep on the 007 mk1 and the KGSShv. A simple increase of the volume pot brings out detail and resolution in all its glory ! I've been shy of turning the pot past 8 but not any more


----------



## astrostar59

I think having a new design of Stat amp on the scene is great news. Especially with input from the Master himself. We will be waiting in anticipation.


----------



## kevin gilmore

maybe the next version of the verto will chuck the music driven bias and the improper loading of the transformer
that attempts to control the ringing. And then it will be just like a srd7

first version of the electrostatic circlotron actually works and no flying parts. There is some output
stage crossover distortion due to me running at a 1ma bias, which i will change later.

Not sure that many of the diyers will like the 4 x 1000V floating output stage power supplies plus
2 x 500V and 2 x15 supplies.

circlotrons move the amplifier complexity from the amp to the power supply.


----------



## Currawong

So are you going to post details of your electrostatic circlotron in the DIY forum here once it is ready?


----------



## kevin gilmore

here is the preliminary amp schematic.
http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/kgsshvcirc.pdf

I'm definitely going to change the output stage bias to the
nelson pass opto isolator thing.

there is no power supply schematic yet.


i have not started on the boards yet either and this
is definitely going to be a 2 box thing.

all current version boards and some schematics (its a work in progress) here
http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/boards/


----------



## n3rdling

ra97or said:


> All that talk on a modded 727 sounding nice... decisions decisions.


 
 You should definitely do it if you have one.  It's a really easy mod.


----------



## jcx

Circlotron is different, but is it a win when the 4 output Q you save cost <$4 each
  
 I'd guess you end up spending more on the custom xmfr(s?) for the floating supplies
  
 do mind the pri-sec, sec-sec winding coupling - shield reduces noise coupling but adds C   - like to see what Mister uV supply noise does with this


----------



## Ra97oR

n3rdling said:


> ra97or said:
> 
> 
> > All that talk on a modded 727 sounding nice... decisions decisions.
> ...


 

 Running a modded 404 on it, quite happy with it. I listen to music quite quiet most the time. It's a JP ver 727A, should be the same internal right?
  
 Shame that I haven't heard a modded one against it, no idea what I am going to get after the mod.
  
 Warranty is still active. =/


----------



## blackads

ra97or said:


> Running a modded 404 on it, quite happy with it. I listen to music quite quiet most the time. It's a JP ver 727A, should be the same internal right?
> 
> Shame that I haven't heard a modded one against it, no idea what I am going to get after the mod.
> 
> Warranty is still active. =/




Ive modded my 727a, the mod is identical, and very straightforward, just unsolder the end of the relevant resistors which is closest to the card edge connector, levering up slightly with a thin bladed screwdriver while you unsolder, then solder resistor lead to the free end of the resistor and solder the other end to the relevant edge connector. Put a bit of insulating tape under each so it doesnt short and you are done. 

I had my 727a for two weeks unmodded, it sounded just plain weird, with a vague and hollowish sound and little bass. After the mod there is an appreciable bass increase and a clear improvement. Ive rebiased and reset dc offset after the mod, as I read a spritzer post which suggested this should be done. 

Had the amp for a few months now and it is no slouch, yes I want a bhse or kgsshv, but Im not feeling I HAVE to upgrade, current sound with 009s is incredibly good...


----------



## astrostar59

Wow, it sound very radical. Kevin, what is the design strategy of the new amp? Is it a different direction to get a T2 kind of amplifier without the heat issues?
 And do you think it will be up there as regards sound quality?
  
 Complexity of build and parts cost would be the main brake for most DIY'er maybe. I was too scared to do my own build of the KGSShv, but plenty of others have tried and had success. The KGSShv parts tally and off the shelf case was about a fifth of the cost of a BHSE for example.


----------



## Sweden

What's the cheapest you guys have seen a used SR-009 sell for? (Japan and Korea included)
 I'm having a big itch.


----------



## astrostar59

I haven't seen many at all. It seems most hang on to them as they are the best headphone in the world IMO.
 Good luck with your search. I would recommend buying new myself, you won't regret owning this phone, as long as you have a decent front end.


----------



## kothganesh

astrostar59 said:


> I haven't seen many at all. It seems most hang on to them as they are the best headphone in the world IMO.
> Good luck with your search. I would recommend buying new myself, you won't regret owning this phone, as long as you have a decent front end.


 
 I was very lucky with the 009. I traded for it on this forum for my Audez'e LCD 3. Price came down considerably...Listening to it now with my KGSShv and Boston playing...don't get any better than this...


----------



## arturo71

I want one cyclotron under my garden


----------



## kevin gilmore

jcx said:


> Circlotron is different, but is it a win when the 4 output Q you save cost <$4 each
> 
> I'd guess you end up spending more on the custom xmfr(s?) for the floating supplies
> 
> do mind the pri-sec, sec-sec winding coupling - shield reduces noise coupling but adds C   - like to see what Mister uV supply noise does with this


 
  
 This has nothing to do with money. Nothing I do is cost effective.
  
 This is like timepieces.  There are timepieces, complicated timepieces, and grand complications.
  
 This thing is a grand complication. Just like the diy T2.
  
 Yes the transformers are a significant issue, and run of the mill stuff is going to arcy-sparky across
 the secondary to the primary. This will require transformers that have 4KV wire and isolation.
  
 And I won't be doing microvolt noise 1000V power supplies. Just not possible with today's parts.
 Simple one stage zener feeding a Sic fet.


----------



## bearFNF

sweden said:


> What's the cheapest you guys have seen a used SR-009 sell for? (Japan and Korea included)
> I'm having a big itch.



$3600 from a head-fi member.


----------



## Jones Bob

FYI... a new SR-009 is US$3259 delivered to US on Price Japan's current website.


----------



## Sweden

jones bob said:


> FYI... a new SR-009 is US$3259 delivered to US on Price Japan's current website.


 
  
 Great price. That makes me think there should be a second hand SR-009 in Japan for roughly 2500. 
 How do the second hand market in Japan look for these items? Any interesting forums? Do you have to know someone in Japan to make it happen?


----------



## barid

sweden said:


> What's the cheapest you guys have seen a used SR-009 sell for? (Japan and Korea included)
> I'm having a big itch.




There was one for $2600 a few weeks ago. Other than that mostly $3100 or higher


----------



## Sweden

barid said:


> There was one for $2600 a few weeks ago. Other than that mostly $3100 or higher


 
 Where was that $2600?


----------



## barid

sweden said:


> Where was that $2600?



It was here on the FS forum. They sold very quickly. I asked some questions about them like an hour after they were posted and the seller responded they were sold. He said he picked them up off audiogon originally.


----------



## NoPants

Damn, an electrostatic circlotron? I mentioned it as a joke some months back, didn't think it would become a real thing


----------



## TheAttorney

jones bob said:


> FYI... a new SR-009 is US$3259 delivered to US on Price Japan's current website.


 

 That price does not include import duties and tax levied by the receiving country. The amount will vary with the country and on how honest the information is on the shipping documents.


----------



## Michgelsen

And, if you need your warranty you will have to ship back to Japan. I've read some SR-009s still develop a channel imbalance (correct me if I'm wrong), so having warranty locally could be something you'd want to pay extra for.


----------



## Moonhead

Some say that 009 have imbalance issues, maybe coming from the same few people, but nonetheless it worries me some, 
That I'm considering getting some 007 for backup. 

Are there some stax experts the can confirm that 007 is more reliable and doesn't suffer the same issues as 009 ???


----------



## PedroH

When listening to the SR009, if you shake your head do you listen to noise? My SR009 does an unpleasant noise if I tilt my head... maybe the cable pushed against my shoulders... is this normal?


----------



## arnaud

Maybe a FAQ is in order. 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/439657/headamp-blue-hawaii-special-edition/5970_30#post_10883235


----------



## wink

Quote:kevin gilmore 





> circlotrons make my brain hurt.  Its all Jason's fault.


 
    ....and that's always a good thing for the DIY community..


----------



## troymadison

Is a KGSS/KGSSHV considered a big upgrade over a Woo Wee/Beta 22 combo that I am using now? I kinda maybe wanna build more amplifiers. I'm not doing tubes, at least not yet.


----------



## davidsh

pedroh said:


> When listening to the SR009, if you shake your head do you listen to noise? My SR009 does an unpleasant noise if I tilt my head... maybe the cable pushed against my shoulders... is this normal?


The Stax fart?


----------



## MacedonianHero

troymadison said:


> Is a KGSS/KGSSHV considered a big upgrade over a Woo Wee/Beta 22 combo that I am using now? I kinda maybe wanna build more amplifiers. I'm not doing tubes, at least not yet.


 
 Yes! The Woo WEE is fine as a short term stop gap, but hardly a "long term" solution IMO.


----------



## barid

macedonianhero said:


> Yes! The Woo WEE is fine as a short term stop gap, but hardly a "long term" solution IMO.


 

 I have a wee now.  Its good with lambda's, but the 007 mk1's sound a bit harsh up top and don't punch as tight down low as the kgss did.


----------



## antonyfirst

This last week I have been listening to a SR-009, bought by a friend of mine who also owns an AMR DP-777 DAC, as well as a SR-007 and SRM-007t.
We invited another friend who owns a Headamp KGSS and another SR-007, which is brighter than the first one, more dynamic and detailed (and I'd say superior.
 
I think the SR-009 are a fantastic headphone. I don't hear them as analytical, they are just fantastic. Very involving, full sounding, they have all frequencies. In the system I described, with the KGSS amplifier, the 009 are simply perfect. They are fantastic even with just the SRM-007t, although they get a bit flabby in bass. They are much better than both the Stax SR-007, by a very big margin. Even the better Omega 2 have an emptyness in the lower midrange, which the 009 don't.
 
The better 007 of the two, still retain spatial qualities which are superior to those of the SR-009 (less wide, but with exceptional capabilities of expanding-collapsing sound and projecting instruments far away), but still lose on every other aspect.
 
Now, the AMR is a vinyil like sounding and tube based source. I am being told that it also pairs greatly with the Metrum Hex (another friend of mine in Leeds - and fellow headfier - currently owns the combo). I will also have a chance to try the 009 with a Lector Digicode S192, which is another analogue sounding source.
To be honest, even if the SR-007 can scale with better amps, I am hardly convinced they will start showing those midrange qualities I am missing with them, and close the gap. Up to the KGSS, the gap between the SR-009 and any SR-007 (I have heard 8 or 9 different samples until this day) is just too wide... I am almost nannoyed, given the 009 are so expensive and out of my budget, but if had the money I'd surely get them.
 
You put a great, analogue sounding source with the SR-009 and the sound is magical. You put a great, analogue sounding source behind the SR-007, and someone will tell you that your amp is the problem (might be half true), and/or your source is not enough.


----------



## astrostar59

> Now, the AMR is a vinyil like sounding and tube based source. I am being told that it also pairs greatly with the Metrum Hex (another friend of mine in Leeds - and fellow headfier - currently owns the combo). I will also have a chance to try the 009 with a Lector Digicode S192, which is another analogue sounding source.


 
I have heard the AMR at a show and it is nice. Another analogue and smooth sounding source I would recommend, every bit as good as the AMR would be the Audio Note 4.1 DAC. It is none oversampling and uses tubes in the PS and output stages. It is as close as I have ever heard to a top vinyl rig IMO. UK finished product is £10k but the kit of the DAC 4.1 can be had for 3.5 US. I built mine in 10 hours and it comes with everything, basically the finished product in bits ready for assembly.
  
Yes The 009s are superb. I had the 007 Mk2.5s and they are also great, but the finesse and detail of the 009s is addictive. Once you hear it (especially with a none Stax amp, there I said it) you will hear what it is capable of. The 009 with the Stax 007t or 717/727 is ok, but is limited. That becomes obvious once you hear other amps. In fact, as well as detail retrieval, I would say the 009 can be a bass monster as well with the KGSShv, it is an incredible headphone. 
  
My issue for years with the Stax sound was it was a bit cold and analytical. Yes, impressive transparency with the Lambda models over the years, yes decent bass (at last) with the 007s. But it wasn't till the 009 landed for me, that it took off into the stratosphere. It's a one way road, find the cash and get it, or don't listen to it. Only way IMO.
  
Actually, I think it comes down to how serious one is about headfi. If you use phones a lot and music is part of your life, then almost everyone can 'find' the money somehow. Eat cheap for a month, cancel a holiday, work some extra hours, ask mum, borrow it. I think everyone into serious headfi should get them.
  
It will be interesting to see how the Abyss fairs. I have a friend who is going to a hifi fair this weekend. If it is the equal of the 009s, I am glad. It is good to have new players in this hobby. My issue with the Abyss is:
1. Weight (I find I get a bit of neck ache after a long session even with the light 009s
2. Looks (I just don't get the design, if it costs that much, it should look at least ok)
3. The adjustment design of the headband is flawed I am told. One of my friends couldn't get a good seal.
  
Watch this space....


----------



## FrankCooter

I've heard the SR-009's many times, mostly with top-tier amplification and relatively high-end sources. Until recently I was disappointed. Instead of returning to the classical open and slightly warm sound of the original Omega's , it seemed Stax had opted for a more "modern" voicing with an emphasis on detail and extension at the expense of a harsher treble and slightly thinner mids. Basically they reminded me of a more refined 507 (which I own).  I recently got the chance to hear the 009's on my own system, which is a sort of "East meets West" marriage of  Metrum Hex source / DIY 845 DHT amp / SR-007. In this system the 009 was clearly superior to the 007.


----------



## gooky

Just wanted to share my experience with the EL34PH.  I heard bad things about them, but I figured it's been about a year, so I thought I give it a shot.  One pair of the quad started humming nonstop the second time I had a listen.  Sent that back to Grant Fidelity for a replacement.  I've listened to them a total time of about six hours now; the other pair now hums, on and off. At times, you can hear humming in between tracks; at times you hear it during the music.  Sometimes, its dead quiet.  Splendid.  I'm just going to use them until they die and dump them.  Just wanted to share my experience with members who are considering it; hope it helps.  They do sound very good though, better than xf4 tubes and around the level of xf2 tubes, in my head.


----------



## antonyfirst

frankcooter said:


> I've heard the SR-009's many times, mostly with top-tier amplification and relatively high-end sources. Until recently I was disappointed. Instead of returning to the classical open and slightly warm sound of the original Omega's , it seemed Stax had opted for a more "modern" voicing with an emphasis on detail and extension at the expense of a harsher treble and slightly thinner mids. Basically they reminded me of a more refined 507 (which I own).  I recently got the chance to hear the 009's on my own system, which is a sort of "East meets West" marriage of  Metrum Hex source / DIY 845 DHT amp / SR-007. In this system the 009 was clearly superior to the 007.


 
  
 Fantastic, Frank. That's what I was hoping to hear.


----------



## TheAttorney

gooky, my PH's hummed quite badly when new, sometimes the hum came and went, sometims continuous. I found the hum could be silenced simply by holding the tube (using a cloth!) or gently prodding the base.
 But gradually this hum subsided to silence over time (100+ hours). Even after this, they always still hummed in the first few minutes of start up, just like my current Mesa Boogies do, as did the stock JJs. It's seems quite common really amongst new production tubes.
  
 In short, don't worry too much about the hum. It's the dying bit that you really need to worry about.


----------



## realmassy

The hum is definitely related to any new production EL34, being PH, JJ or Tungsol, same experience.
 The RFT on the contrary are TOTALLY silent.


----------



## Golfnutz

theattorney said:


> gooky, my PH's hummed quite badly when new, sometimes the hum came and went, sometims continuous. I found the hum could be silenced simply by holding the tube (using a cloth!) or gently prodding the base.
> But gradually this hum subsided to silence over time (100+ hours). Even after this, they always still hummed in the first few minutes of start up, just like my current Mesa Boogies do, as did the stock JJs. It's seems quite common really amongst new production tubes.
> 
> In short, don't worry too much about the hum. It's the dying bit that you really need to worry about.


 

 I wonder if this is amp related? I've never had humming of any sort with any of the tubes I've tried.


----------



## yawg

realmassy said:


> The hum is definitely related to any new production EL34, being PH, JJ or Tungsol, same experience.
> The RFT on the contrary are TOTALLY silent.


 

 In my experience the older the tubes the better (sound, resolution and reliability). The best driver tubes I have are all pre-1960 and have triple mica and black plates. I never heard an EL34 amp with a neutral sound. I liked the warm sound of my old Klimo Linnet (6 x EL34/100W per channel) monos with certain types of music but sold them after some years because I don't like "colored" sound after all.
  
 It's a pity all the know-how of the old tube factories is lost. IMO the JJs are the worst you can buy now. If you need new EL34s go for the "Mullard" ones. They are not real Mullards but Russian Svetlanas. Svetlana bought the brand name. BTW many good old brands are sold to other companies and their gear is often developed by free-lance engineers, like Mark Levinson. I listened to their new "high-end" mono amps and was very disappointed. It's a jungle out there. I always go for the old original 2nd hand stuff ...


----------



## realmassy

yawg said:


> It's a pity all the know-how of the old tube factories is lost. IMO the JJs are the worst you can buy now. If you need new EL34s go for the "Mullard" ones. They are not real Mullards but Russian Svetlanas. Svetlana bought the brand name. BTW many good old brands are sold to other companies and their gear is often developed by free-lance engineers, like Mark Levinson. I listened to their new "high-end" mono amps and was very disappointed. It's a jungle out there. I always go for the old original 2nd hand stuff ...


 
 Are the new Mullard reliable? I'm looking for a quad to use during the week, a couple of times a week, a couple of hours per session, in a very relaxed way, ie not caring much about sound quality. I'd like to keep my best quads for the longer weekend sessions.


----------



## yawg

realmassy said:


> Are the new Mullard reliable? I'm looking for a quad to use during the week, a couple of times a week, a couple of hours per session, in a very relaxed way, ie not caring much about sound quality. I'd like to keep my best quads for the longer weekend sessions.


 

 I got the info about the Mullards from the German forum:
  
 http://www.roehren-und-hoeren.de
  
 I've been a member of that forum for years and read some posts about the Mullards. Never heard bad things about those tubes. But as always YMMV. You could look for yourself using Google translate.


----------



## realmassy

yawg said:


> I got the info about the Mullards from the German forum:
> 
> http://www.roehren-und-hoeren.de
> 
> I've been a member of that forum for years and read some posts about the Mullards. Never heard bad things about those tubes. But as always YMMV. You could look for yourself using Google translate.




Thanks for the info and the link.


----------



## yawg

realmassy said:


> Thanks for the info and the link.


 

 There is at least one guy on that tube forum that claims that instead of EL34 one can also use  KT77 and 6CA7 if one changes the whole set and readjusts the bias.


----------



## kevin gilmore

el34 and 6ca7 are identical items.  kt77 is a bit different, rated more for extra current than voltage, I would
 not use those in a BHSE, bad things have happened in the past.


----------



## Golfnutz

kevin gilmore said:


> el34 and 6ca7 are identical items.  kt77 is a bit different, rated more for extra current than voltage, I would
> not use those in a BHSE, bad things have happened in the past.


 
 In the BHSE thread, I noticed JHellow saying how much he liked the KT77's in his amp, and doubt there would be a need for another set of tubes (page 164).
  
 Then I noticed he also posted something asking if Justin was able to find out what's wrong with his amp (page 392).
  
 I wonder if there's any coincidence to this?


----------



## gooky

theattorney said:


> gooky, my PH's hummed quite badly when new, sometimes the hum came and went, sometims continuous. I found the hum could be silenced simply by holding the tube (using a cloth!) or gently prodding the base.
> But gradually this hum subsided to silence over time (100+ hours). Even after this, they always still hummed in the first few minutes of start up, just like my current Mesa Boogies do, as did the stock JJs. It's seems quite common really amongst new production tubes.
> 
> In short, don't worry too much about the hum. It's the dying bit that you really need to worry about.


 

 I noticed that too!  What is it about ringing tubes that makes you want to touch them?  I'm probably going to put my tube dampers on them.  And yes, I was gullible enough to buy dampers at one point.  Thanks for your experience, glad to hear your tubes work; hopefully, that'll be the case with mine, at least for a while.  I purchased it mainly out of curiosity, but I don't expect it to be very durable.
  
 I don't think it's amp related, been using xf2 tubes on and off for about three years, and never had a problem (knock on wood.)


----------



## dude_500

gooky said:


> I noticed that too!  What is it about ringing tubes that makes you want to touch them?  I'm probably going to put my tube dampers on them.  And yes, I was gullible enough to buy dampers at one point.  Thanks for your experience, glad to hear your tubes work; hopefully, that'll be the case with mine, at least for a while.  I purchased it mainly out of curiosity, but I don't expect it to be very durable.


 
  
 Tube dampers make my Svetlana's ring a lot less, good enough that it doesn't interfere with listening (it did before, super loud ringing)


----------



## muscleking

finally received my stax 4170. however the seller included the transformer is rated for 35w. it shuts down after less than 10 minutes. scare the hell out of me first. the transformer is extremely hot when it shut down. I didn't realized it was underpowered.
  
 so I couldn't test it too long. but I listened to sarah brightman's eden and yeah I really liked the sound. heard more stuff then my sony ma900. so the longest I run the tube is 3 minutes. I gave to my mom to listen not a good song and she said I got ripped off. I said the tube is not heated up yet and there is like 200 hours break in period.
  
 the crappy power supply transformer is TI-101, see pic, I ordered a TI-351 which is 120w on amazon.ca for 33 bucks shipped. but that will be received by like November. I packed the headphone away and put the amp on my desk with the plastic bag back on.
  
 you guys should try the sony ma900. the stax is definitely not 13 times better. ma900 cost me only 120 bucks. this one 1600 bucks, Canadian dollar. you guys will see me talking about the 4170 in the next little while. definitely getting rid of that ad700 you see in the first picture. but again that thing is 80 bucks damn good value.


----------



## TheAttorney

gooky said:


> I noticed that too!  What is it about ringing tubes that makes you want to touch them?  I'm probably going to put my tube dampers on them.  And yes, I was gullible enough to buy dampers at one point.  Thanks for your experience, glad to hear your tubes work; hopefully, that'll be the case with mine, at least for a while.  I purchased it mainly out of curiosity, but I don't expect it to be very durable.
> 
> I don't think it's amp related, been using xf2 tubes on and off for about three years, and never had a problem (knock on wood.)


 
 Over on the BHSE thread I posted a mini review of the Herbie Halo tube dampers. They had absolutely no effect whatsoever on the tube hum/buzz, but they did improve the SQ heard through the headphones, whether the tubes were buzzing or not.Go figure. I can't comment on any other tube damper as I've only ever tried one model.
  
 My Treasures were one example of new production tubes that didn't hum/buzz at all on the BHSE. But they didn't sound anywhere near as good as the PHs or MBs - even when the latter two were buzzing loudly. Go figure.


----------



## David1961

The noise I hear from the PH tubes is kind of hissing / crackling sound when I first turn on the power to my BHSE, but this noise is only slight and after a few minutes it goes to virtually no noise at all, there is still a slight noise after those first few minutes, but in order for me to hear it I have to put my ears within inches from the tubes.


----------



## yawg

david1961 said:


> The noise I hear from the PH tubes is kind of hissing / crackling sound when I first turn on the power to my BHSE, but this noise is only slight and after a few minutes it goes to virtually no noise at all, there is still a slight noise after those first few minutes, but in order for me to hear it I have to put my ears within inches from the tubes.


 
 I wonder about all that tube noise. Are the heaters in the tubes AC or DC?


----------



## David1961

yawg said:


> david1961 said:
> 
> 
> > The noise I hear from the PH tubes is kind of hissing / crackling sound when I first turn on the power to my BHSE, but this noise is only slight and after a few minutes it goes to virtually no noise at all, there is still a slight noise after those first few minutes, but in order for me to hear it I have to put my ears within inches from the tubes.
> ...




Sorry, but I don't know anything about the technical side of audio, but I'm sure someone will be able to answer your question.


----------



## Jones Bob

muscleking said:


> finally received my stax 4170. however the seller included the transformer is rated for 35w. it shuts down after less than 10 minutes. scare the hell out of me first. the transformer is extremely hot when it shut down. I didn't realized it was underpowered.
> 
> so I couldn't test it too long. but I listened to sarah brightman's eden and yeah I really liked the sound. heard more stuff then my sony ma900. so the longest I run the tube is 3 minutes. I gave to my mom to listen not a good song and she said I got ripped off. I said the tube is not heated up yet and there is like 200 hours break in period.
> 
> ...




I would STRONGLY advise against ever setting a bottle of water on top of a tube amplifier that puts out 900vpp. Respect the lethal voltages! Even if unplugged at the time, dripping condensation, or a spill could put you at risk went powering up.


----------



## astrostar59

I was just about to say that!


----------



## astrostar59

Why do you need the transformer? Can't you adjust the taps inside the Stax amp to suit your home voltage?


----------



## Jones Bob

Should not need a transformer for the US. The SRM-006tS (seen in the photo) is the 117VAC export version.


----------



## muscleking

That's an empty water bottle just for size comparison when I put it on Facebook lol. Yeah I won't put anything on there when it's hooked up for sure. 



jones bob said:


> I would STRONGLY advise against ever setting a bottle of water on top of a tube amplifier that puts out 900vpp. Respect the lethal voltages! Even if unplugged at the time, dripping condensation, or a spill could put you at risk went powering up.


----------



## muscleking

jones bob said:


> Should not need a transformer for the US. The SRM-006tS (seen in the photo) is the 117VAC export version.




I ordered it from Yokohama, on the back there is a sticker says AC100v



astrostar59 said:


> Why do you need the transformer? Can't you adjust the taps inside the Stax amp to suit your home voltage?




I saw some thread people modifying the amp. I don't really want to open something this expensive even though I solder pretty good and knows OK on electronics. But I will look into it. 

I ordered the 120w kashimura transformer should be here like November. Someone said transformer will mess with sound if loaded more then 50%? So 50w on 120w transformer should be OK yeah?

Also btw my xonar stx playing music on stax is quite impressive. All flac files I use. Some are 24/192. Do you guys use something better then computer?


----------



## Jones Bob

muscleking said:


> I ordered it from Yokohama, on the back there is a sticker says AC100v




Hmmmm..... I thought the SRM-006tA were 100VAC for the domestic Jaoanese market. The SRM-006tS was the export version. I saw the outside box in your post. If it says AC100V on the back of the amp, of course it uses AC100V. 

Happy listening.


----------



## muscleking

Oh there is a TA? 
Mine when start up it goes to input 2. Is that right? There are 3 line input on back input2, then input1, then another one called parallel out. Makes a click sound like in my sound card when starting computer. 

Going to Alaska for a week back next Monday. Less wait for the transformer. Lol.


----------



## jgazal

kevin gilmore said:


> el34 and 6ca7 are identical items. (...)


 
  
 Is there any problem using a 6ca7 with beam confining electrode instead of a more traditional suppressor grid?


----------



## yawg

I'd like to share some tidbits from a tube expert on the Hongkong Tube Audio forum about clean power for tube audio gear here. He only uses double shielded industrial power chords with big plugs:
  
 "I ran two dedicated circuits from my distribution box to my AV room. (I put that cable I showed some of you in my roof and wall, so it is getting much-more-correct-than-audiophile-power-cord in my wall at an affordable price.)

 One circuit is dedicated to solid state diode power supplies. The other is dedicated to vacuum tube diode power supplies. Never the twain shall meet. There is no chance for switching SS diodes corrupting my tube power supplies this way. The speed matters as well. Tube diodes are fast. SS diodes are slow.

 If anything has a switch mode power supply, I run that through an industrial isolation transformer. It's not about making switch mode sound good (iso transformer can help) but more about stopping switch mode from polluting everything else.

 Heater technology is one of the most massive advances in vacuum tube hi-fi. The conventional hi-fi world is in the Middle Ages because they have not even conceived of heater technology. Where I have separated my heater power from high tension (separate transformers) I also run separate power cords for heater and high tension. And I group the heaters together (away from high tension power cords) so that they have special handling within my power layout."
  
 I hope this helps ...


----------



## Jones Bob

muscleking said:


> Oh there is a TA?




The original 006t was released a while back, don't recall when. Then it was made ROHS compliant and released as the 600tA for the 100V Japanese market, and as the 120/240V 006t Mk2 for export. 

Latest is the 006tS. The spec sheet lists it also as an export 120/240VAC model. 
http://www.stax.co.jp/Export/SRM006tS.html


----------



## milosz

yawg said:


> I'd like to share some tidbits from a tube expert on the Hongkong Tube Audio forum about clean power for tube audio gear here. He only uses double shielded industrial power chords with big plugs:
> 
> "I ran two dedicated circuits from my distribution box to my AV room. (I put that cable I showed some of you in my roof and wall, so it is getting much-more-correct-than-audiophile-power-cord in my wall at an affordable price.)
> 
> ...


 
 Do you have separate transformers from your power company for your "solid state power line" and your "tube power line" too?  If not, every glitch, noise burst, and transverse-mode disturbance on your "vacuum tube power line" is present on your "solid state power line," and vise versa.  These things propagate at near the speed of light. If your your solid state amp generates some kind of noise or spike, it will travel up your power line to the power company's connection and then back down along your vacuum tube power line and into your vacuum tube amp in less than 0.0000002 seconds.  Or in other words, instantly.


----------



## yawg

milosz said:


> Do you have separate transformers from your power company for your "solid state power line" and your "tube power line" too?  If not, every glitch, noise burst, and transverse-mode disturbance on your "vacuum tube power line" is present on your "solid state power line," and vise versa.  These things propagate at near the speed of light. If your your solid state amp generates some kind of noise or spike, it will travel up your power line to the power company's connection and then back down along your vacuum tube power line and into your vacuum tube amp in less than 0.0000002 seconds.  Or in other words, instantly.


 

 I just quoted that Chinese "expert". Personally I found that since I power all my gear except my power amps via a big isolation transformer my overall sound experience has improved a lot.
  
 I also use an AC filter before my digital gear, CD-player, DAT-recorder and DAC. This seemed to improve the sound, too.


----------



## milosz

My bad.  It didn't register in my senile that you were quoting someone.


----------



## greggf

I'm having a problem with my 007tII amp, and was wondering if anybody here can help me with it.
  
 The amp is new-ish.  I got it directly from Yama's.  At random times, one channel - usually the right, but sometimes the left, and never at the same time - will develop a hum.  It does it with both my 407 and 009 headphones.  (Although it's a higher-end hum with the 009 lol.)  It's not just a minor aesthetic issue; it's loud enough to disrupt listening.
  
 I've discovered that I can modify the sound of the hum - make it softer - by resting my hand on the top of the amp.  I can make it go away completely by lightly tapping the side of the 007tII's casework.  Sometimes it goes away on its own after a few seconds or minutes.
  
 There's a possibly-related second issue.  About 20% of the time, upon turn-off, there's a residual hum and/or crackling sound in one channel only (usually the right one) for up to a minute after turn-off.  It slowly peters out. 
  
 Any ideas?


----------



## davidsh

If the hum is reduced while touching the case it might be some kind of grounding problem. Could also be the tubes picking up noise somehow, vibration, radio signals, grounding problems.. Just some suggestions


----------



## rgs9200m

Send it back to Yama and insist on a new one. If the new one does it, you have some issue with your setup, but I doubt it.
 Try all different cables and a different circuit and inputs 1 and 2 and a different input source first just to be sure.
 Those guys at Yama are good to deal with and I'm pretty sure they will just replace it.


----------



## greggf

Thanks.  I never thought to try different inputs.  Will get out my RCA cables and try tonight.  Different sources produce the same effect, btw.


----------



## rgs9200m

Good luck. Very nice system you have there by the way. Also make sure there are no dimmer switches active on anything on the power circuit; they can cause havoc.
 And of course, if I wasn't clear, try it with an outlet somewhere else in your place. Again, best to you. FWIW, after 3 Stax amps (a T1W both 007t versions), I never had any defects,
 even after biasing my current one.


----------



## blackads

greggf said:


> I'm having a problem with my 007tII amp, and was wondering if anybody here can help me with it.
> 
> The amp is new-ish.  I got it directly from Yama's.  At random times, one channel - usually the right, but sometimes the left, and never at the same time - will develop a hum.  It does it with both my 407 and 009 headphones.  (Although it's a higher-end hum with the 009 lol.)  It's not just a minor aesthetic issue; it's loud enough to disrupt listening.
> 
> ...




A few things, does it hum at all when no source is connected? If so, best bet is probably warranty service.

 If it only hums with a source, and if swapping cables doesnt help, then the suggestion from the manual is to try connecting the earth on the 007 with the earth on the other equipment - there is an earth terminal on the back, just use the terminal to run a wire to the source, and find a ground point ( eg a case screw you can loosen and retighten to hold the wire). 

I have a 727 that I tried with my wa22 as a preamp for a while, when the wa22 was connected via the balanced inputs it hummed noticeably throug the 727 but the common earthing suggestion stopped the hum completely -


----------



## greggf

Doesn't seem to be cables/inputs.  I should mention that the hum is sometimes a light crackle, and also that it's a very random thing.  99.9% of the time, everything sounds fine.  The gear goes to a dedicated audio outlet that is wired straight back to our fuse box.  But our electricity is very strange out here.  We live in a town of about 5,000 people, and we are at the very end of the line - the last folks.  The lights are forever flickering, dimming, etc.  We've had everything checked.  It's not the house, it's the "grid", as such.  Is STAX electrostatic gear perhaps more sensitive to power irregularities?
  
 Time for a trip to Yama..........


----------



## davidsh

greggf said:


> Doesn't seem to be cables/inputs.  I should mention that the hum is sometimes a light crackle, and also that it's a very random thing.  99.9% of the time, everything sounds fine.  The gear goes to a dedicated audio outlet that is wired straight back to our fuse box.  But our electricity is very strange out here.  We live in a town of about 5,000 people, and we are at the very end of the line - the last folks.  The lights are forever flickering, dimming, etc.  We've had everything checked.  It's not the house, it's the "grid", as such.  Is STAX electrostatic gear perhaps more sensitive to power irregularities?
> 
> Time for a trip to Yama..........


 
 Power conditioning might be wortwhile in your case.


----------



## arnaud

greggf said:


> Doesn't seem to be cables/inputs.  I should mention that the hum is sometimes a light crackle, and also that it's a very random thing.  99.9% of the time, everything sounds fine.  The gear goes to a dedicated audio outlet that is wired straight back to our fuse box.  But our electricity is very strange out here.  We live in a town of about 5,000 people, and we are at the very end of the line - the last folks.  The lights are forever flickering, dimming, etc.  We've had everything checked.  It's not the house, it's the "grid", as such.  Is STAX electrostatic gear perhaps more sensitive to power irregularities?
> 
> Time for a trip to Yama..........


 
  
 Isn't that one or more tubes going south?


----------



## complin

Yes my thoughts exactly, especially with the associated crackling. Maybe they need just reseating or have become loose or the contacts a little dirty, perhaps damaged during shipping?
  
 Quote:


arnaud said:


> Isn't that one or more tubes going south?


----------



## rgs9200m

Yep, cracking, or a bubbly/burping sound points to a bad tube.  I have heard that many times in many tube amps and new tubes always clears that up. Since your amp is not brand new, that makes sense.
 Try new tubes (you can do biasing later or send it to Yama for that) just to see what happens if you want to play with it before sending it off. But I guess Yama is responsible for the tubes at this early stage too.


----------



## greggf

Thanks, guys!!


----------



## anil

Has any one used the SRE-950S extension cables with the SR-009 phones?  I was wondering if 5 meters is too long for extension cables.  I was planning on putting my headphone amp along with the rest of the stereo gear and use the long extension cable to my normal listening spot.
  
 Thanks
 Anil


----------



## n3rdling

It'll work just fine.  You can also use one of the older extension cables if you want to save money.


----------



## anil

n3rdling said:


> It'll work just fine.  You can also use one of the older extension cables if you want to save money.


 
 Thanks.  Do you mean the 750S cables, or is there an older version of the 950 cables?


----------



## ericfarrell85

Can anyone comment on the Lambda Signature + KGSS synergy? I'm thinking about giving this headphone a go as I've never heard a Lambda.


----------



## georgep

anil said:


> Thanks.  Do you mean the 750S cables, or is there an older version of the 950 cables?


 
 The old cable is round instead of flat.


----------



## n3rdling

anil said:


> Thanks.  Do you mean the 750S cables, or is there an older version of the 950 cables?


 
  
 Any 5 pin extension will work.  You can search ebay beforehand if you want to save money.


----------



## ALSO

Hoping for some help with a used set of 4070s I picked up recently.  I've posted three photos below, but basically, the headphones do not extend beyond a ridge that restrains their movement.  In looking at other sets online, it's clear the headphones are supposed to swivel outward, but this set has a restraint built in that prevents a full extension.  Not sure how to wear these, since the don't "open up." Hope I am making sense, and that someone could weigh in with some advice.


----------



## project86

Weird. Mine are not like that, and I can see how it would be a problem for fit. As I browse online, most pics are like my set, but I do see a few like yours. I wonder if it was the first batch or something. Not sure I see a way around that short of modifying the cups (which you obviously don't want to do on a rare item like this).


----------



## bearFNF

The lambda's have a "stop" built-in to keep them from over rotation.


----------



## ALSO

project86 said:


> Weird. Mine are not like that, and I can see how it would be a problem for fit. As I browse online, most pics are like my set, but I do see a few like yours. I wonder if it was the first batch or something. Not sure I see a way around that short of modifying the cups (which you obviously don't want to do on a rare item like this).


 

 Thanks for the quick responses, not sure how to go about this. I suppose I could try to remove the brackets, and then reattach them so the cups swivel, but wondered if I'm missing something simpler.


----------



## bearFNF

From your pictures it looks like they do swivel but just don't go past the frame toward your head at the top. which is exactly what I was trying to show you with the 507. which is by design, the way it should function.


----------



## ALSO

Thank you bearFNF. If so then these are a little different than other 4070 models?


----------



## project86

Just do a google image search for "Stax 4070" and you'll notice most are like this:
  
  
  

  
 While his are like this:

  
  
 See the difference? There's a sort of "cutout" section on the cups which seem to block rotation - you'll never get the pair above to rotate like the pair in the top pic. Interesting. 
  
 Can any Stax historians chime in on this? Spritzer?


----------



## ALSO

project86 said:


> Just do a google image search for "Stax 4070" and you'll notice most are like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Exactly, and I have to say in this state, the really don't fit.


----------



## n3rdling

Have you tried to adjust the metal arcs?


----------



## ALSO

n3rdling said:


> Have you tried to adjust the metal arcs?


 

 It seems the only way to adjust them would be to remove them, and then reattach them on the other side of the blocks.  Not sure it would work even then.


----------



## n3rdling

You can bend them to make the arc wide/narrow.


----------



## ALSO

Sorry, not sure I'm following your suggestion.


----------



## project86

Seems to me you'd require a massively wide head in order to make that pair fit - my "forks" are always in a position outside the range of motion your set allows for. You'd have to actually bend things around "Audio Technica style" to possibly make that work, which doesn't sound fun on a rare set like the 4070.
  
 Do you have a serial number? I wonder if that style is like a prototype or something. Surely Stax would have quickly discovered the flaw in that design and not allowed many of them to ship.


----------



## ALSO

Right, exactly.  I bought this pair used in Japan.  It came with a lot of the accessories, but no serial number.  I changed the earpads and headband and overall it seems in decent shape.  It sounds good, as far as I can tell, but can't figure out the block.


----------



## n3rdling

Meant to post this a while back.  I ended up finding a Stax DAC-X2t.  As far as I can tell it's the exact same thing as a DAC-X1t.  I've always been very happy with my Accuphase DP-75, but the X1t is one of the only DACs I told myself I'd try to hunt down and own one day.  It really sounds amazing.  I think this thing went for something like $20k new back in 1989.  It uses 12AX7 tubes on the input and two Ultra Analog D20400 DAC chips.  Weighs about 65 lbs.  Took me years to get my hands on one but well worth the wait


----------



## davidsh

Can't you just reattach the 4070 cups so that the blocking mechanism is on the opposite side of the cup. Then it will further in-wards.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Maybe an adequate ring / washer (size / material / color) you insert beetween the fork's pins and the cups. It could stretch the fork enough it'll allow the cup to swivel as well as the units without this restraint.

 Ali


----------



## project86

n3rdling said:


> Meant to post this a while back.  I ended up finding a Stax DAC-X2t.  As far as I can tell it's the exact same thing as a DAC-X1t.  I've always been very happy with my Accuphase DP-75, but the X1t is one of the only DACs I told myself I'd try to hunt down and own one day.  It really sounds amazing.  I think this thing went for something like $20k new back in 1989.  It uses 12AX7 tubes on the input and two Ultra Analog D20400 DAC chips.  Weighs about 65 lbs.  Took me years to get my hands on one but well worth the wait


 
  
  
 Sweet! I had a friend with one of those back in the day (or was it the X1t.... not sure) and I recall being very impressed with it. Those Ultra Analog DACs are something special.


----------



## yawg

project86 said:


> Sweet! I had a friend with one of those back in the day (or was it the X1t.... not sure) and I recall being very impressed with it. Those Ultra Analog DACs are something special.


 

 I think in the first place it's the tubes that make the difference, not the DAC chips. Now you can roll them and eventually even improve the already awesome sound. Try to find some US made blackplates, the best IMO.You could also look for some German ECC83 made by Telefunken or Siemens/Halske. I use those in my EAR 549 power amps.
  
 I own a tubed DAC myself and found the perfect sound after some tube rolling. I always missed something with even the best SS DACS which use a class A line stage.
  
 I made a mistake: the Telefunken and Siemens I use are actually ECC85 and the phase splitters. The E83CC - or 12AX7 - are GE 5751 triple mica black plates with extra support rods, the drivers in my amps. Those triple mica black plates were made in the 50s and come in different flavours like Sylvania, RCA, Heintz & Kaufman etc, all very good and some excellent. The best of the best are the ones with extra stainless steel support rods IMO.
  
 BTW the 5751s have about 30 percent lower mu than the 12AX7 but when used as drivers that's often an advantage - less noise and the volume pot works more effective in its higher range, beyond "12 o'clock" ...


----------



## astrostar59

Yes I agree, the tubed DACs do sound better IMO. I also found I prefer non oversampling + tubes. The Lampizator 4 is nice.
 I have an Audio Note 4.1 tube regulated PS and tubed output, I am very happy with it. There seems to be a LOT of folk who 
 endlessly buy DACs (Delta-Sigma mainly) looking for the analogue smooth sound. R-2R sound smoother and less digital
 in my rig.


----------



## kothganesh

Listening to JJ Cale and Eric Clapton " Danger" from the Road to Escondido on the SR 009 and the KGSShv. My 16 year old daughter listened to it for 2 minutes and then asked me "Why are you bothering with other headphones and amps?" No answer friends, no answer.


----------



## astrostar59

Plus that on the KGSShv.
  
 JJ Cale, Sad loss indeed. You know he wrote many of the songs that Eric Clapton then made 'his own' and made
 lots of money of course. JJ was a shy bloke who didn't like the stage much, but wrote many great songs and could 
 play a mean guitar.
  
 I think for me the KGSShv and 009s does it all. I like the BHSE for it's vocals and transparency, but alas I am falling out of
 love with tubes. I still have a tubed DAC which has small long life tubes, but the days of Power amps with tubes for me is over.
  
 The KGSShv gets real close to the BHSE and possibly surpasses it in bass and dynamics, but I dig the hassle free aspect of it.
 The amp does get warm, but not much, nothing like my Plnius Class A 125 watt, I can fry an egg on that!


----------



## muscleking

Came back from Alaska Sunday and look what I found, some vintage transformer that looks like a tank. Got it for 20 bucks.

headphone stand from aliexpress somehow sent from Netherland. 32 bucks. Very high quality, smooth no smell.


----------



## kothganesh

astrostar59 said:


> Plus that on the KGSShv.
> 
> JJ Cale, Sad loss indeed. You know he wrote many of the songs that Eric Clapton then made 'his own' and made
> lots of money of course. JJ was a shy bloke who didn't like the stage much, but wrote many great songs and could
> ...


 
 I was just getting into JJ and he's gone...I bought the album that Clapton put out in remembrance of JJ...its outstanding. Back on the thread, I am glad that the people who have listened to the BHSE concur generally that the KGSShv is pretty close. I can stop chasing the former. The amazing thing with the latter is the amount of headroom I still have when I crank it up to my levels of loudness.... I cannot go past 10 on the dial...And as you crank it up, the 009 becomes more transparent and ethereal...


----------



## davidsh

Headroom on the volume pot means practically nothing wrt sound quality. Just saying.


----------



## Advert

Hi, im new here with 007mk2 and WEE woo audio
Im using many speaker amps (change it frequently - maranz, old denon, cambridge, tube amps) and using optional cables such as chord, jpslabs, wireworld, monster, etc for speaker cables
I found it change sound signature quite much when inchange the speaker cable 

I still looking for "better amp" and a good value for my 007mk2 

Should i use "stax amp" or i can continue use woo audio wee with speaker amp?

Thank you


----------



## kothganesh

davidsh said:


> Headroom on the volume pot means practically nothing wrt sound quality. Just saying.


 
 Maybe I should clarify...I have seen posts of people cranking it up to even 1 or 2 on the pot....IME, I don't listen that loud and it is unnecessary for me to go anywhere close to those levels on the KGSShv to get the refinement and detail I need...I did not want to imply anything else.


----------



## astrostar59

It depends how much you want to spend. If budget is restricted, you may only have the Stax 727 or second hand 717 as an option.
 I would avoid any other Stax amps, they will run out of stream too quickly on your 007s. I had the 007s and they worked well with my
 717 amp, which by the way is the same as the 727 but without the feedback thing. You can buy a new 727 and do the mod to make it sound
 as good as the 717.
  
 After that, you would be looking at a second hand KGSS originally built by Headamp. Or a good KGSShv from Spritzer or other DIY'er that
 knows what he is doing.
  
 I have yet to hear a speaker amp that sounds as good as a KGSS or KGSShv. Besides, you would need a really good tube power amp
 to then run an energiser after, which is more devices messing with the sound (and more money).
  
 Good luck.


----------



## Lonely_Rider

Hi!
  
 Quick question: is it safe disconnect or connect Stax-phones to amplifier, when the amplifier power is on?


----------



## davidsh

lonely_rider said:


> Hi!
> 
> Quick question: is it safe disconnect or connect Stax-phones to amplifier, when the amplifier power is on?



Yes, just turn down the volume if you want to be on the safe side


----------



## cucera

.

Another upgrade option are the German High Amps you find more information at www.high-amp.de (best builder were Rille and the Designer himself)


----------



## JayM481

Looking for a budget try at the Stax tube hybrid amps, what are the ones to look for? I see that the 006 is essentially an update of the T1, so is the former a better choice all else equal? This is with Lambda Pros.


----------



## NoPants

kgst seems like one of the cheaper options when considering the all-in parts cost and the simplified PSU


----------



## Lonely_Rider

davidsh said:


> Yes, just turn down the volume if you want to be on the safe side






 


Thanx!


----------



## spurdo

First post. Is there a recommended amplifier to pair with an SR-Lambda Signature?
  
 I hear about the SRM-T1, Exstata Hybrid and KGSS.


----------



## n3rdling

T1 is a classic


----------



## Jonathan66100

n3rdling said:


> Meant to post this a while back.  I ended up finding a Stax DAC-X2t.  As far as I can tell it's the exact same thing as a DAC-X1t.  I've always been very happy with my Accuphase DP-75, but the X1t is one of the only DACs I told myself I'd try to hunt down and own one day.  It really sounds amazing.  I think this thing went for something like $20k new back in 1989.  It uses 12AX7 tubes on the input and two Ultra Analog D20400 DAC chips.  Weighs about 65 lbs.  Took me years to get my hands on one but well worth the wait


 
 Congratulation for your X2T : P 
 I wish you good listening : )


----------



## n3rdling

Thanks   I was a little worried about it having tubes as a lot of tube DACs I've heard sound too smooth to me, but this is probably the best sounding DAC I've heard.


----------



## Jonathan66100

This is one reason why I want to try it ( the tubes)
 ( I prefer the tubes amps at the transistor for example )
 I believe also the design is symmetrical and is designed from chips UA : P
 and it's a Stax : D
 I find always strange that the people are not too interested in DAC of this brand, yet the Stax Dac Talent ( and BD ) are great so I dare not imagine a X1T : D


----------



## arnaud

But it's not like you can find used stax dac at every corner of the web, is it? Especially of the kind that n3rdling found, this got to be as rare as the t2 no? Btw, congrats, n3rdling!


----------



## Jonathan66100

Hi Arnaud : ) 
 Yes i believe : D
 But the T2 is more sought while X1T (X2T) must bring as much as a T2 (IMHO)


----------



## David1961

AFAIK, Stax no longer service the DAC's they once built, so I'm not sure what will happen for those that own a Stax DAC when serviicing needs to be done.


----------



## Jonathan66100

Servicing a T2 and a Omega (with originally driver ) should not be easy either : )


----------



## Ali-Pacha

http://www.stax.co.jp/Japan/service-J.html
http://www.stax.co.jp/Pdf/Service/Service-J_2014-08-20.pdf
Out of SRM-1 and very old stuff (SRD-1/2/3, SRA-x), T2 is the only amp you can't have any service from Stax.
Same thing with DAC, phono cartridges, ES Loudspeakers.

Ali


----------



## gusGGG

Wooooowww, I didn't know that Stax made a dac, it had to be amazing!! Better said, it's still great for sure.


----------



## n3rdling

arnaud said:


> But it's not like you can find used stax dac at every corner of the web, is it? Especially of the kind that n3rdling found, this got to be as rare as the t2 no? Btw, congrats, n3rdling!


 
 I think it's actually rarer than a T2.  I've seen them come up for sale less often, that's for sure.  I remember reading that there were only 20 made, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.


----------



## NoPants

should be fairly straightforward to service the dac compared to the amplifiers by oneself, no hv


----------



## Jonathan66100

@ gussGGG​
 Stax have made 3 DAC, STAX DAC Talent STAX DAC Talent BD and STAX DAC X1T : ) 
  
 ​@ n3rdling​
 I think Stax have made much more than 20 unity : )​
 But i do not know where have they are xD
 maybe than the owners keeps them jealously
  
  
 @ NoPants
 I think too but the X1T appear to have a diagram complicated.
  
 @ alipacha
 ​I believe Stax no longer has the drivers preceding those of the ** 7 series 
 (207, 307, 007 ect ... )


----------



## astrostar59

n3rdling said:


> Thanks   I was a little worried about it having tubes as a lot of tube DACs I've heard sound too smooth to me, but this is probably the best sounding DAC I've heard.



I can say with experience that the Audio Note DACs which have tubed regulation and output DO NOT sound smooth as in flat or veiled. In fact they are incredibly realistic and detailed. For anyone looking for another (better) digital source wirh no digititous or treble edge, then get hold of an Audio Note DAC. The 3.1 and 4.1 are at the sweet spot performace v cost. Or go for a 4.1 kit, it is a giant killer and only costs 3k US. You have to assemble the kit but it is real easy. I did mine in 10 hours.


----------



## astrostar59

Kgst is my advice.


----------



## Jonathan66100

@ astrostar
 It's possible to have a pictures of your audio note and KGST 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ?


----------



## Jonathan66100

Double post sorry.


----------



## milosz

As far as servicing Stax electrostatic speakers, there is at least one company out there who offers service on them -  Electrostatic Solutions.  See =>  http://www.estatsolution.com/
  
 I don't know anything about them, except that a web search turned up their name for repairing Stax ESL's.  
  
 In addition, I imagine that folks who offer service for Quad speakers might also be able to fix problems with the Stax panels, the bias supplies, etc.


----------



## astrostar59

And here is an interior photo of the DAC 4.1 (kit) taken off the ANK Audiokits website.
  


  
 Here is my DAC 4.1 kit (back case back front)


----------



## Jonathan66100

@ milosz
 it would be good that he can repair the omega: P
  
 @ astrostar59
 I'm really intrigued by the KGST.
  
 Thank for the inside of DAC 4.1 : p 
 I found here more accurately http://www.thresholdlovers.com/articles.php?lng=en&pg=1399


----------



## Hun7er

@Jonathan66100 : I'm into the KGST project. It is based on SRM007 with higher part ! I can send you more information if you want


----------



## David1961

A KGST can be found on Mjolnir-Audio in the products section, however I believe Birgir doesn't build them commercially.


----------



## astrostar59

You got a budget? If so, I would recommend going for a DIY KGSShv rather than sink money on the Cavalli amp IMO. You will get better SQ for the buck for sure.
 On upgrading your Stax amp, it may be worthwhile if money is tight. Though having heard my old Lambda Nova Signatures, and the 507, plus the 009s on a 007t and my 717 Stax amp, I left the idea of using Stax amps behind. The extra jump in SQ is not subtle, even on the Lambdas.
  
 IMO it shows 2 things.
  
 1. The Stax amps are not so hot
 2. The headphones have unrealised potential i.e. can scale when partnered with a better amp.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## kevin gilmore

hun7er said:


> @Jonathan66100 : I'm into the KGST project. It is based on SRM007 with higher part ! I can send you more information if you want


 
  
 The 6s4A output tube, the fet current source, and the higher and regulated voltages make a substantial difference.
  
 And coming VERY soon a much easier to build T2 in a standard chassis
 (that said, its still a massive amount of work)


----------



## spurdo

astrostar59 said:


> You got a budget? If so, I would recommend going for a DIY KGSShv rather than sink money on the Cavalli amp IMO. You will get better SQ for the buck for sure.
> On upgrading your Stax amp, it may be worthwhile if money is tight. Though having heard my old Lambda Nova Signatures, and the 507, plus the 009s on a 007t and my 717 Stax amp, I left the idea of using Stax amps behind. The extra jump in SQ is not subtle, even on the Lambdas.
> 
> IMO it shows 2 things.
> ...


 

 It's good to know that the KGSS is good for the Lambda models. I was torn between solid-state and tubes, but I now have a better idea of how my upgrade path will look. I'll recap my SRM-1 Mk1 with similar rated ones, and then look at the KGSS-HV. Thanks.


----------



## davidsh

I find the hate on the Stax amps interesting. Several times I have heard that Stax (apparently) aren't making much money on the amps they sell, which'd lead me to think that they _should_ be good bang for the buck, at least compared to many other non-DIY boutigue offerings.


----------



## kensonic

astrostar59 said:


> You got a budget? If so, I would recommend going for a DIY KGSShv rather than sink money on the Cavalli amp IMO. You will get better SQ for the buck for sure.




What is the advantage of the KGSShv against the LL2 ?


----------



## astrostar59

I have mates who have the LL1 and it is not so hot compared to the BHSE or my KGSShv. The LL2 is I am told, very similar, even identical as regards circuit and parts count. Unless anyone can chip in here, I would say the LL2 is not as good as an off-board KGSShv.
  
 I would ask around, and PM 'you know who' over at the other place who has dissected an LL1 and found some horror stories inside. It is obvious the PCB is thin and soldered badly, that is obvious to a none engineer.
  
 The problem I think is folk can't get to hear the KGSShv or KGST without going to the big meets. The LL is easier to demo or buy off the shelf. I thought about an LL before I got to do more research and talk to owners who have one.


----------



## MacedonianHero

astrostar59 said:


> I have mates who have the LL1 and it is not so hot compared to the BHSE or my KGSShv. The LL2 is I am told, very similar, even identical as regards circuit and parts count. Unless anyone can chip in here, I would say the LL2 is not as good as an off-board KGSShv.
> 
> I would ask around, and PM 'you know who' over at the other place who has dissected an LL1 and found some horror stories inside. It is obvious the PCB is thin and soldered badly, that is obvious to a none engineer.
> 
> The problem I think is folk can't get to hear the KGSShv or KGST without going to the big meets. The LL is easier to demo or buy off the shelf. I thought about an LL before I got to do more research and talk to owners who have one.


 
  
 Actually the LL2 is a good step up from the LL1 (which I wasn't a big fan of), but the LL2 has certainly stepped it up. With the SR-007s, I still prefer the KSSSHV (mine is the 1968SA offboard up'd to 10mA), but with the SR-009s, it's a tight race to my ears really and it would depend on preferences or music listened to.
  
 The improvements are more than just sonic, it finally now has balanced loop outputs and the all black casework is top shelf.


----------



## astrostar59

I see. Is the PCB design and parts count any different from the LL1? I read Alex said it was basically the same, case only and cosmetics?


----------



## preproman

Peter,  was that the new LL2T?


----------



## arnaud

I am also surprised this is the standard LL2 Peter is referring to. We had one circulating here in Japan last year and it was nothing to write home about, in particular in comparison to a factory SRM727 amp. I was disappointed to say the least. I can search for the post to put details but what I recall was just really weird, felt like strong over shoot on the transient and overdamped decay. The sub-bass wasn't present, not any better than the Stax amp with the SR009, regardless of the terrible reputation of the stock version in that register. Imaging wasn't any better than the stax amp either, especially poor sense of room ambiance (partly due to the weird transients I think - it messes up attack and decay).
  
 One thing that never got clarified though is if the unit was really made for Japan 100V as I think it was a standard US voltage unit. Else could have been messed up in transit although I think it went somewhere else in Asia after that and the next tester waxed lyrical about it I think. Maybe my hearing is off .
  
 Arnaud


----------



## MacedonianHero

astrostar59 said:


> I see. Is the PCB design and parts count any different from the LL1? I read Alex said it was basically the same, case only and cosmetics?




That's what I thought, until I actually heard it side by side.  Sonically they are quite different and I think the capacitance has been reduced dramatically on the LL2 through various changes (and that can have a dramatic effect on the sound of stats). A few others have reported as such. I was also skeptical, but actual first hand experiences have changed my mind. It is a really good sounding amp to my ears. While the LL1 left me a bit wanting, the LL2 didn't.



preproman said:


> Peter,  was that the new LL2T?




Hi Daryl: This is the solid state version I'm referring to, not the tubed version.


----------



## MacedonianHero

arnaud said:


> I am also surprised this is the standard LL2 Peter is referring to. We had one circulating here in Japan last year and it was nothing to write home about, in particular in comparison to a factory SRM727 amp. I was disappointed to say the least. I can search for the post to put details but what I recall was just really weird, felt like strong over shoot on the transient and overdamped decay. The sub-bass wasn't present, not any better than the Stax amp with the SR009, regardless of the terrible reputation of the stock version in that register. Imaging wasn't any better than the stax amp either, especially poor sense of room ambiance (partly due to the weird transients I think - it messes up attack and decay).
> 
> One thing that never got clarified though is if the unit was really made for Japan 100V as I think it was a standard US voltage unit. Else could have been messed up in transit although I think it went somewhere else in Asia after that and the next tester waxed lyrical about it I think. Maybe my hearing is off .
> 
> Arnaud




I find evaluating amps/dacs is very difficult in a meet setting. Rather having them in home for a few days with your upstream gear and music really helps. The LL2 is a great sounding amp after I got the chance to do that; while the LL1 wasn't up to it's standard. The lack of sub bass was certainly there with the LL1 (even though many disagreed with me when I mentioned as much), but I specifically paid close attention to the LL2 and it was there to my critical satistfaction. At least to my ears, in my home, with my gear. 

But we both very well know that the SR-009s sound best through an uber priced European OTL tube amp and the Woo WEE.


----------



## Advert

hi guys
  
 just want to ask
  
 is the woo WEE become a bottle neck compare to stax 007 amp?
 i am using stax 007 mk2
  
  
 thank you
 and sorry for my bad english


----------



## cucera

The SRM 007t is not the Best Match for the Omega 2(007). It is too weak, but when upgraded to 6s4a tubes it is quite nice (measured 40% output power). The 717 or even 727 is a much better option


----------



## Michgelsen

Or an even better option to unleash the full potential of the SR-007, according to many around here, is dropping a few grand on an aftermarket amp.
  
 I wonder however, if a good transformer box is an option. I haven't heard much about this for a long time now, but I remember that some years ago it was taken seriously. Can anybody shed some light on this? How much would a good transformer box cost? I have absolutely no idea. How would for example a $2000 transformer box compare to a Stax SRM-717 or 727, given that one would already own a fine speaker amp. What would be its strong points?


----------



## AnalogSavior

I'm curious if anyone has experience with the Woo GES. It's a one of the Dr. Gilmore designs I never hear about, and I don't know of anyone else building them.


----------



## kevin gilmore

Actually, a balanced version of the GES board will be available soon.
  
http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/gesbal.jpg


----------



## AnalogSavior

Thanks for the reply!


----------



## Advert

cucera said:


> The SRM 007t is not the Best Match for the Omega 2(007). It is too weak, but when upgraded to 6s4a tubes it is quite nice (measured 40% output power). The 717 or even 727 is a much better option


 
 ah, yes
 i mean the 727 amp 
  
 is the WEE would become bottle neck if i pair with speaker amp? compare to 727?
  
  
 thank you


----------



## cucera

advert said:


> ah, yes
> i mean the 727 amp
> 
> is the WEE would become bottle neck if i pair with speaker amp? compare to 727?
> ...




Yes, the 727 is better than any transformer solution.


----------



## 3X0

Is there any recommendation for a safe solvent to use to clean the housings of Greater Stax?
  
 There's a smudge of something on the housing of one of my Omega drivers and I've been contemplating gently rubbing it away with 98% isopropyl.
  
 They haven't been used for about three months now so I believe they're free of any errant charges.


----------



## yawg

3x0 said:


> Is there any recommendation for a safe solvent to use to clean the housings of Greater Stax?
> 
> There's a smudge of something on the housing of one of my Omega drivers and I've been contemplating gently rubbing it away with 98% isopropyl.
> 
> They haven't been used for about three months now so I believe they're free of any errant charges.


 
 I would recommend that you only use ethanol not isopropyl alcohol. I used to clean my records with ethanol after some other user told me that isopropyl alcohol was cheaper and as good as ethanol I used that stuff. Afterwards I realized that isopropyl alc. damaged about 5 percent of my vinyl LPs., I get awful hiss with those. So I would advise you to use only ethanol, not isopropyl alcohol.
  
 Just my 2 ¢ ...
  
 Good luck, Jörg.


----------



## davidsh

Isopropyl alcohol is often used for electronics. I think there's a good reason for it, can't remember..


----------



## n3rdling

Because it's not conductive.  Get 99% if you can.


----------



## eric65

cucera said:


> Yes, the 727 is better than any transformer solution.


 
  
 Not always !
  

  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/681814/amplifiers-shootout-for-stax-009-eddie-current-electra-audiovalve-rkv-wooaudio-wee-stax-srm727-srm007t2
  
 Some solutions marketed (with better transformers than the Wee) even exceed in performance and sound quality the amplifier Stax SRM 727 (do your research with pikatron transformers).


----------



## cucera

Yes Eric we are well aware of your shootout , but you have a minority opinion here. And I know another influential headfier in Germany who prefers his Accuphase/Lundahl even to the 717.

But most of us don't think the coloration of a transformer to be desirible with a 007. Maybe it helps those who want to tame the bright 009.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/727630/audiovalve-rkv-ii-otl-amp-2014-version-audiovalve-box-adapter-verto-for-stax-headphone-and-for-low-impedance-orthodynamic-eletrodynamic-headphone/15


----------



## eric65

cucera said:


> Yes Eric we are well aware of your shootout , but you have a minority opinion here. And I know another influential headfier in Germany who prefers his Accuphase/Lundahl even to the 717.
> 
> But most of us don't think the coloration of a transformer to be desirible with a 007. Maybe it helps those who want to tame the bright 009.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/727630/audiovalve-rkv-ii-otl-amp-2014-version-audiovalve-box-adapter-verto-for-stax-headphone-and-for-low-impedance-orthodynamic-eletrodynamic-headphone/15


 
  
 OK for the 009, but the combination SRM 727 + SR 007 is not optimal (bass poorly controlled)
  
 Eric


----------



## cucera

> OK for the 009, but the combination SRM 727 + SR 007 is not optimal (bass poorly controlled)
> 
> Eric




i agree so far that the 717 and aftermarket amps are much better in this regard.


----------



## Mahay

Does anyone know the difference between these SRM-T1? Which one is the older and which sounds better?
  

  
 This one seems to have two power transformer and it's an SRM-T1,
  

 This one seems to have only one and this is another SRM-T1
  
 The SRM-T1S seems to have the same circuit to this latter. Is that mean the first one is the older version? Also does the SRM-T1S better sounding than the older version?


----------



## nemomec

mahay said:


> Does anyone know the difference between these SRM-T1? Which one is the older and which sounds better?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 First picture is the older version of SRM-T1 with a separate transformer for the heat voltage of the tubes. SRM-T1 and SRM-T1S has in my ears the same sound quality, but the SRM-T1S has also balanced inputs.


----------



## mangler

Hi guys. I was planning to build a KGST, so I bought 2 sets of boards, 2 matched quads of 6S4a, a teflon Stax socket from Justin, and an SR-40 for testing. However, I'm selling off my Stax setup, so I won't be needing these anymore. I've posted the pieces in the FS forum: http://www.head-fi.org/t/738904/fs-parts-for-kgst-electrostatic-amp-pcb-tubes-socket-sr-40
  
 I really don't normally broadcast that I'm selling stuff, but I figure the only people that would like to build a KGST are here, and that if I don't say anything the pieces might get lost in the forum.


----------



## Jones Bob

Thanks for one set of your KGST PCBs, mangler.  I needed a spare set for a future build.

From the short listen to my own KGST it is an awesome electrostatic headphone amp. Highly recommended and fairly easy to DIY.


----------



## mangler

No problem! By all accounts it sounds like a killer amp, and I image it those 009 sing with it


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Could someone tell me why this went for such little money?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/201189485558?nav=WATCHING_ENDED


----------



## alcyst

Not an expert; the seller seems to get reasonable prices on many units, they are 20+ year old units, the photos weren't great.


----------



## RAZRr1275

So I need a bit of help regarding buying Stax gear. My situation is this -- I"m an HE-6 owner and while I love the HE-6 for their technical abilities, there's something missing -- they don't give me the sense of closeness and involvement in the music that my HD650s do due to their more dry monitor ish presentation. I've been told that Stax cans could give me a nice compromise of an organic, involving sound and high amounts of clarity. So that brings me to my question - what do I need to buy and can I get it under $1k? I've been told to look at the SR-407 model as well as the vintage Lambdas (there seems to be a pro and normal model - what's the difference between those?). Also what do I need to amplify these things? I noticed the SRM-323S, SRD-7 (I do have a 25 wpc speaker amp to use it with), SRM-1/MK-2, and Woo Wee come up a lot - what's the difference in sound between these?
  
 Thanks for the help - there's just a lot to sort out with the stax line


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Go get an SRS-2170 system on pricejapan 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ali


----------



## RAZRr1275

ali-pacha said:


> Go get an SRS-2170 system on pricejapan
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Any particular reason why? What does it sound like?


----------



## Michgelsen

If you want to stay under 1k, you can forget about the SR-007 or SR-009, and only pick on of the Lambda models.
  
 'Pro' (580V) or 'Normal' (230V) refers to the bias voltage of the membrane. The amp must supply this voltage, along with the (balanced) music signal for the earspeakers to work, hence three wires per channel: two for balanced audio, one for bias. This is just like on a condenser microphone, which is a reverse electrostatic speaker. Read up on how electrostats work if this doesn't make any sense to you. Either way, for the last twenty years or so, Stax has only used Pro bias, meaning that you only need an amp with Normal bias if you buy very old vintage Stax. In all other cases you need a Pro bias amp or transformer box. Pro bias uses a five-pin connector, with a combined bias pin for both channels, and Normal bias uses the older six-pin connector. Note that you can plug in a Pro bias earspeaker in a Normal bias socket, which works but isn't optimal, but not the other way around, as that could damage the earspeaker.
  
 I cannot comment on the differences between amplifiers and transformer boxes, as I haven't ever used the latter. Amps are much more popular. Make of this what you want.
  
 If the sound of a SR-202 is any indication of the SR-207, then I say follow Ali-Pacha's advice and get a SRS-2170 system via pricejapan, or locally if warranty is important to you. It's incredibly good for the money, and can possibly make you never want to use dynamic headphones again. Remember that when importing from Japan via pricejapan, you need to replace the adapter of the amp to suit the voltage in your country. This is easy, but pay attention to the polarity of the plug. For more information, search the forums, since this has been explained many times.
 If you want to go second-hand, the older SRS-2050 system which includes the SR-202 is very good. I haven't heard the SR-207, but own the SR-202 (for many years now) and have used it with multiple Stax amps, including the (bundled) SRM-252 amp. The amp is plenty good for the easy to drive SR-202 or other Lambda's. Stax tube amps are also a very good match, from memory a bit better than my SRM-717 to be honest.
  
 What does the SR-202 sound like? A very spacious, open and dynamic sound, quite neutral, but with a slight punchiness in the lower bass, and a slight emphasis in the midrange around 2 kHz. The highs are incredibly precise and detailed, yet smooth and not overblown but (for me) in perfect balance with the rest. I am generally very sensitive to harshness in the upper midrange or highs and do not find the SR-202 harsh or too bright, but just right. For example a HD800 is quickly fatiguing for me. Downsides are a bit of a diffuse soundstage (like all Lambda's: wide but diffuse) and the mentioned emphasis around 2 kHz. Strong points are their overall tonal balance and effortless, clear, highly detailed sound without distortion anywhere. I hope and read that the SR-207 is similar, but unfortunately I haven't heard it (yet).
  
 The 407 and 507 have a good reputation as well, but supposedly have a more U-shaped tonal balance. I have a SR-507 incoming, so can hopefully find out very soon. Don't know about the SR-307. Some say it's equal to the higher models, others say it's not.
 If you ask me, Stax should stop making it. Then they have the cheap 207, a medium 407 and a top 507.
  
 Conclusion: the SR-202 and/or SR-207 make a perfect entry into the Stax world and have an outstanding price/performance ratio. For these, the cheap SRM-252 amp or older variants are very capable; Stax tube amps recommended as possible upgrade.
  
 Let us know what you decide.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Yeah, SR-2170 is quite a steal. And despite its entry level status, it has some kind of mafia approval.

  
 Ali


----------



## Tachikoma

Also consider the various vintage models, i.e. SR-5, SR-X, SR-Gamma (the Gamma being the most Lambda like). Those cans don't have the soundstaging or frequency response of the Lambdas, but generally sound more involving and maybe more "organic", depending on your definition of the word anyway. I've always liked the older headphones better than the Lambdas for some reason.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I do agree for "regular" SR-5, tons of mids and the most grado-ish Stax out there...but I find SR-5 Gold / SR-X mk3 a bit sterile compared to Lambda NB.
 Anyway, don't you have some vintage round-shaped pro stuff to sell ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ali


----------



## RAZRr1275

Thanks so much -  All of this info has been super helpful. I've done some probing to see what's available for me to buy and at what price and I was curious what you guys think of my thought process so far as far as options
  
 Option 1) Stax SR-X MKIII with the SRD-7 - I could get this for $400. It seems as if it would be the least detailed/soundstaged headphone but the most smooth and involving (maybe the most forward sounding?) I'm curious how it is for rock that gets a bit noisier/more busy? I love acoustic stuff too so its still an option if it excels at that. I'd use my 25 WPC Temple Audio Bantam Gold speaker amp as the amplifier (does the SRD-7 attach to the speaker amp via spades or bare wire?)
  
 Option 2) Stax SRS-2170  (SRS-207 with SRM-252S amplifier) - I could get this for about $660. Seems like it would still be pretty warm but less so than the SR-X but with the bonus of more detail retrieval/soundstage and more extension on both ends
  
 Option 3) Stax SRS-207 with SRM 323 or SRM-1/MKII (if I go this route I think I'd prefer the SRM-1 since it can power the vintage normal and pro bias cans as well as the modern ones and supposedly sounds similar to the 323) - This would be about $800
  
 Option 4) Stax SR-407 and Woo Wee, SRM-323 or SRM-1/MKII - This would run me all the way to my 1K budget ceiling - This seems to be the most detailed/most soundstagey but also the brightest/least involving
  
 Am I right in terms of my impressions? Would Stax stuff be a good all arounder? Any more comments on sonic differences between these options?


----------



## NoPants

The brightness of the [345]07 is fairly overstated in my opinion, but there's no compelling reason to invest in these more expensive models over the 207. You would probably find a long-term solution in the 323s and 207- the amp choice would allow you to explore other models without upgrading everything else.


----------



## AnalogSavior

That's what I've read during my research on the current Stax line.  Though I wont be able to audition the 207 myself, I'll likely get to listen to a 507 and 404LE at an upcoming meet.  If they work for me, I intend on grabbing the 2170 system for the exact reason you stated.
  
 I don't know how I feel about the dual volume control on the 323S, but I do know it is considered one of, if not the best Stax amp currently available.  Anyone have experience with it?


----------



## NoPants

I own the 323s, it's capable for the lamda series. the dual volume control allows for imbalance adjustment should it occur in the headphones


----------



## AnalogSavior

Thing is I just know I'll spend more time trying to make sure I've got my balance perfect than listening to music! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Do the two channels happen to track together once you get them where you want them?


----------



## NoPants

Yes the main volume knob tracks both channels, and the knob for balance adjustment can be set independently


----------



## AnalogSavior

That's actually really good to know.  Thanks for answer my questions.


----------



## Michgelsen

Yes the knob is pretty clever. The two parts stick together firmly during normal use, so you're unlikely to change the balance accidentally, but when you need to it can be done.


----------



## gepardcv

The 2170 is a great Stax system, for sure. I compared the 207 and 407 side-by-side closely, and found them nearly indistinguishable. (Replacing the 207's pads with the leathers from the 507 might even tip the balance to the 207 for comfort reasons — the stock 207 can get a little warm after an hour or so.)

Incidentally, if you find yourself in Tokyo, the 2170 set can easily be found for under 500 USD (including consumption tax, currently 8%).


----------



## AnalogSavior

Thanks for commenting. I've seen it on Price Japan for about $550 I think. I'd just have to find a good tutorial on switching it to the correct voltage. Since Yamas is notorious for bad service, I'm not too worried about losing the 1 year warranty.


----------



## Michgelsen

There's no switching the voltage internally on the SRM-252s, since it uses an extenal adapter. You just buy a new adapter with the correct plug and that's it.
  
 Only on the bigger Stax amps, you have to switch the voltage by changing a selector on the back (older amps), resoldering jumpers internally (not-so-old amps), or resoldering transformer windings (newest amps).


----------



## AnalogSavior

That's right, I had forgotten that the 252S had the external adapter. Thanks.


----------



## gepardcv

This is the adapter I use for the 252S in the US: http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?KeyWords=T1135-P5N-ND — works perfectly. I double-checked that the pin has a negative center and that it delivers 12V before plugging in the amplifier.


----------



## RAZRr1275

I've decided that after I move my HE-6 I'm going to go for the 2170 setup. From what I've read I need a transformer to fit USA voltage since the kit I'd be buying would be an import from japan.. If someone could link me to such a product for a decent price that would be great. Thanks!


----------



## Tachikoma

Dude, the  3 posts before yours were just talking about that...


----------



## RAZRr1275

Sorry - I had a glitch with the website where it was showing an archived version of the site


----------



## milosz

I've read a number of people mentioning channel imbalance with Stax 'phones.
  
 I've had 2 Lambda's - a Lambda Pro and a Lambda Signature -  and I've had two SR-007's - a mk II  and my current mk I.  I have not heard any imbalance in any of these, and they were all purchased used.
  
 I'd say that if you are worried about buying a Stax headphone because you fear a quality issue in terms of channel  imbalance- well, while I'm sure it can happen, none of the four pair I've owned had any issues with channel imbalance. (Neither do my Koss SEP-950s, by the way.)
  
  
 Just my 2 cents worth.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

My SR-5 Gold has noticeable imbalance, right channel takes 2-3 min to get as hot as left one.
 My SR-5 is very (very) slightly hotter on the left. But I'm used to, since I've been living with this one since more than 30 years.
 My SR-X/mk3 is toasted : crackle sounds on both sides, most likely holes in the drivers. My father certainly used to hear it far too loud with SRD-7 box. Thus too much voltage, arcing, end of the story.
 No problem with SR-009, SR-Lambda and SR-Sigma Pro.

 Ali


----------



## rx79ez08

milosz said:


> I've read a number of people mentioning channel imbalance with Stax 'phones.
> 
> I've had 2 Lambda's - a Lambda Pro and a Lambda Signature -  and I've had two SR-007's - a mk II  and my current mk I.  I have not heard any imbalance in any of these, and they were all purchased used.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What you are saying is like I heard of people being struck by lightning, but I never been struck so it is all good.
  
 I think it is fairly to say this is a known issue and risk with Stax headphones, particularly older one. It is not necessarily easily fixable once that happen. So while older Stax are widely accepted as being better than those in the current generation, there are certain known risk in buying them.
  
 To a certain extend it is a risk that you have to take with any vintage gears that are no longer manufactured. Then it is up to others to decide whether it is right for them.
  
 I am speaking as a person who do have Stax headphones with balance problem.


----------



## milosz

rx79ez08 said:


> What you are saying is like I heard of people being struck by lightning, but I never been struck so it is all good.
> 
> I think it is fairly to say this is a known issue and risk with Stax headphones, particularly older one. It is not necessarily easily fixable once that happen. So while older Stax are widely accepted as being better than those in the current generation, there are certain known risk in buying them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I wonder if channel imbalance is 1 in 10, 1 in 100, 1 in 1,000.....
  
 How many dB is your imbalance? 
  
 Oh, and by the way, I HAVE been struck by lightning.


----------



## rx79ez08

I have not measure the problem as analytically, but it is noticeable.
  
 The probability of imbalance happening is probably not high, given a lot of the headphones are still going strong after more than a decade or two. But there are enough reports out there that I think people should be aware that it is a real potential problem.


----------



## 3X0

rx79ez08 said:


> I have not measure the problem as analytically, but it is noticeable.
> 
> The probability of imbalance happening is probably not high, given a lot of the headphones are still going strong after more than a decade or two. But there are enough reports out there that I think people should be aware that it is a real potential problem.


 
 The number of cases of temporary imbalance far outweigh the number of cases of permanent imbalance.
  
 Given the former, I simply could not do without an energizer with independent channel control.


----------



## Michgelsen

milosz said:


> Oh, and by the way, I HAVE been struck by lightning.


 
  
 By a DIY T2 perhaps?
  
  
 More on topic, none of my four second-hand Staxen have ever had an imbalance problem. My HE60 did, very very little, but once you hear it, it becomes very distracting because voices aren't centered in your head anymore, and you go searching for a possible imbalance everytime you listen, even though sometimes a voice is purposely recorded louder in one channel.


----------



## milosz

> Originally Posted by *milosz*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hahaha
  
 Although I have had my share of "bites" from tube gear -  most recently from my Citation II -  _YEOUCH  that hurt!-_  the lighting thing was meteorological, not electronic-
  
 I was driving a car in a storm in 1987 and the car was struck by a lightning bolt as I crested a hill.  It shut the car off, but it started right back up.  Left a little burn on the roof of the car.
  
 Since that day, I've  preferred electrostatic speakers / headphones... maybe the voltage gave me a bias....


----------



## rgs9200m

I'm on my 3rd Stax (Lambda Nova, SR007 mk 1, now SR009) and never noticed an imbalance (this is over 15 years).


----------



## David1961

I had the 007mk1's for 11 years before letting them go, and the only problem I had with them was with the cable which occurred after about 7 years. I also got my 009's in 2011 from PJ and have had no problems with those Earspeakers.


----------



## paradoxper

Forgive me. Can anyone provide a thorough comparison of the T2, BHSE and KGSSHV. Using either/both 009/mk1.


----------



## gepardcv

On an unrelated note: does anyone know if the 507 pads are compatible with 207 and 307? The pads all look the same size, but for some reason Yama's site says the pads are compatible with the 407s and 507s, no mention of the 207 or 307.


----------



## Michgelsen

Yes they are compatible.


----------



## remilio

Is there anywhere in the net a video tutorial which shows how to disassembly the top part of Lambda's arc? I mean this thing - https://www.staxusa.com/parts/head-band/stax-signature-headband.html


----------



## Jonathan66100

Hi all : ) 
  
 I'm not even sure that the Stax amps, with XLR inputs are really Full Symmetric. 
  
 Kevin Gilmore seems to confirm that the kgss, kgsshv, kgbh, T2 and all other Stax amps are not entirely symmetrical. 
 http://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/8327-im-on-a-roll-the-kgsshv/page-14#entry387893
  
 "kgss, kgsshv, kgbh, T2 and Every Other Stax amp are balanced and-have differential inputs, goal 
 are not symmetric and definitely not complementary Either. One of the results is That power supply 
 noise and drift are now a Significant outcome. "
  
 Or even impossible, for electrostatic amps to be fully symmetric. 
 http://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/8327-im-on-a-roll-the-kgsshv/page-14#entry387740

 "Fully differential amps fully complementary symmetry are the best. Unfortunately not 
 be in electrostatic amps UNLESS you want to do serious transistor stacking. "
  
 Spritzer says that all Stax amps after MK2 SRM1 are fully symmetric (Fully Balanced) provided they have XLR inputs. 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/17445#post_8175985

 "SRM-1 Mk2 Is Where things get tricky since There Are So Many variations of it. The first ones Were Some weird Mk1 / Mk2 fully DC coupled hybrid though later purpose units are much more similar to the current crop of Stax amps like the 313 . Now the amps are fully balanced from input to output only though MOST-have RCA inputs. "
  
 And resellers of stax says the amp is balanced with her XLR input, but they no talk about full balanced or symmetrical.
  
 Symmetrical and balanced is the same thing ?
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Michgelsen

From my limited understanding, symmetrical and balanced are often used as synonyms, but a distinction can be made in amps.
  
 In any case, Stax headphones are always driven balanced, that is from both sides of the membrane, thus by both a + and - signal at the same time from different sides, and thus need four-channel amps for stereo audio. If you look at internal photos of electrostatic amps, you often see four-channel pots being used (or 2×2), meaning that the amps are four-channel throughout. Apparently, if I understand the posts you quoted correctly, the four channels of the amp do not have to be or cannot always be exact copies of each other, which is what would make a fully symmetrical amp. I have never seen an electrostatic amp that operates as two-channels, but is splitted to four only at the output.
  
 Please correct me if I'm wrong; I know nothing of amplifier design.


----------



## Jonathan66100

Thank you for taking the time to answer me Michgelsen ! 
 They it is played to nearly full symmetric.
  
 KG also speaks of power supply noise and drift.
 It's complicated : D


----------



## FrankCooter

michgelsen said:


> I have never seen an electrostatic amp that operates as two-channels, but is splitted to four only at the output.
> 
> Please correct me if I'm wrong; I know nothing of amplifier design.


 
  
 No commercial designs that I'm aware of, but occasionally done in the DIY world. The signal is run single-ended all the way until the last stage, where it is split into a balanced output via a phase-splitting transformer.
  
 Like all other amp topologies, a series of trade offs is involved. The big negative is the transformer, which if done right, is heavy, bulky, expensive, and no matter how good, will not have the technical measurements of a balanced direct-coupled design.
  
 The biggest advantages are the elimination of the neg. HV rail,which allows much greater flexibility in power supply design. the ability to use unusual tubes such as DHT's in the output, and simpler overall circuitry that produces an inherently balanced output that is not subject to drift or variation.


----------



## eric65

frankcooter said:


> No commercial designs that I'm aware of, but occasionally done in the DIY world. The signal is run single-ended all the way until the last stage, where it is split into a balanced output via a phase-splitting transformer.
> 
> Like all other amp topologies, a series of trade offs is involved. The big negative is the transformer, which if done right, is heavy, bulky, expensive, and no matter how good, will not have the technical measurements of a balanced direct-coupled design.
> 
> The biggest advantages are the elimination of the neg. HV rail,which allows much greater flexibility in power supply design. the ability to use unusual tubes such as DHT's in the output, and simpler overall circuitry that produces an inherently balanced output that is not subject to drift or variation.


 
  
 See also : http://www.head-fi.org/t/727055/diy-tube-amp-for-electrostats-transformer-coupling-vs-dc-coupling#post_10730457
  
  
 Hello FranckCooter, 
  
 Your publications (rare) are highly appreciated for their quality and pedagogy. 
  
 You explain unprejudiced the advantages and disadvantages of electrostatic headphone amplifiers using transformers step up behind a tube amplifier operating in OTL mode. 
  
 If I understand correctly, the theoretical performance of such an amplifier (with transformers step up) will always priori inferior to those of direct-coupled amplifiers do not use output transformers. I want to believe. 
  
 However, and this may seem paradoxical, hearing performance may be different due to the inherent imperfections of transformers that can sometimes make it more enjoyable to hear  (by coloration ?) with electrostatic headphones (overall synergy?) at least on some music sound with the SR-009 Stax headphone. 
  
 This is what we discovered by chance in a comparative test (with a rigorous protocol) using two headphone Stax SR-009 (two testers in blind, six audio criteria and five musical choice (60 votes for each A / B amp comparison)) with 3 amplifiers direct drive (Stax SRM-727, Stax SRM-007t and Eddie Current Electra) compared to a tube amplifier OTL (Audiovalve RKV-II) coupled to the transformer box WooAudio WEE (via an adapter) (see the results of this study the following links : http://www.head-fi.org/t/681814/amplifiers-shootout-for-stax-009-eddie-current-electra-audiovalve-rkv-wooaudio-wee-stax-srm727-srm007t2/60#post_10976349 ; and : http://www.head-fi.org/t/681814/amplifiers-shootout-for-stax-009-eddie-current-electra-audiovalve-rkv-wooaudio-wee-stax-srm727-srm007t2 (page 1))
  
 This study seems to have inspired Mr. Becker Helmut, the German manufacturer of tube amplifiers (AudioValve brand), who produced, in June 2014, a step up voltage transformer box optimized for operation with own headphone amplifier OTL of the mark (RKV -II) : code name : "Verto".
 (NB: the ratio step-up voltage amplification of the Verto box is lower than the Wee : ratio 1: 5.9 (against 1:50 for the Wee) 
 (NB bis: the RKV can get 80-100 Volt RMS (AC) out of an load estimated at 2000 Ohm ; the transformer box Audiovalve (named from the Latin name "Verto") are Pikatrons transformers, manufactured specifically to specifications, according to the manufacturer). 
  
 Listening results (subjective) of combo OTL RKV-II amp + Verto transformer box, look very promising, especially for listening through headphones Stax SR-009. 
 http://www.open-end-music.de/vb3/showthread.php?p=166271#post166271 (german) and http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178235362.html#p178235362 and http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/post178238699.html#p178238699 (french)
 Dynamics does not seem constrained; no known treble attenuation (at least up to 10 KHz) for listening to a normal level of 75-80 dB, with peaks of 95-100 dB level. 
 Timbre (tone) seem very natural, both sweet, precise and just tone. 
  
 Recently, I learned that Mr. Becker would get an integrated solution of its Verto transformer box with their OTL amp (RKV-II) : all elements (OTL tube amp + transformers) are integrated in a single box : tube amplifier OTL (+ step-up transformers (1: 5 or 1: 6 ?), probably the same as those of the Verto?) who should be appointed from the Latin name (or Italian?) "Luminare"). 
 (last known link of the AudioValve "Luminare" amp : http://www.attsaar.de/Rechts/KHV-Audiovalve.html (german))
  
 All this to say, it's with some enthusiasm, your ideas and concept of combining an integrated amplifier tube amplifier + transformers step up voltage) seem took days, not in a DIY form, but a commercial form, which will be available to lovers Stax headphones in the same manner as the direct current amplifiers driving already sold. 
  
 I found your interesting idea ; our tests with transformers box (Wee and Verto) showed the feasibility and the reality of such concept audio.

 Finally, Mr. Becker obviously interested in the application of this concept now seems to bring out the DIY to apply industrially (commercial design).
  
 I just wanted to keep you informed of all these the latest developments (June and October 2014) you might be interested, in the small world of electrostatic headphones. 
  
 Yours.
  
 Eric


----------



## kevin gilmore

actually there is an unbalanced commercial design that drives the loudspeaker single sided with
 one of the stators at ground, and the bias voltage fluctuating with the music.
  
 Beveridge.  They were very impressive speakers in their day. Probably still are if there are any
 left that still work.


----------



## Jonathan66100

Hi Eric, FrankCooter and Kevin : ) 
 Thank for your reply FrankCooter and Kevin : )
 If I understand correctly, the fact that the stax amps are not completely symmetrical, they have nevertheless of big advantage not be.


----------



## eric65

kevin gilmore said:


> actually there is an unbalanced commercial design that drives the loudspeaker single sided with
> one of the stators at ground, and the bias voltage fluctuating with the music.


 
  
 Nothing heard nefarious about sound quality.
  
 The bias is regulated and stored by buffer capacitors; It remains stored for tens of minutes, even in the absence of music input signal.
  
 And the "Luminare"? (amplifier built-in)  http://www.attsaar.de/Rechts/KHV-Audiovalve.html
  
  
  
 Hi, Jonathan
  
 There are advantages and disadvantages for each technology (amps with direct drive or with step up transformers)
  
 Eric


----------



## NoPants

I think any impressions involving the RKV Mk3 should be discredited on account of how hideous it is


----------



## preproman

paradoxper said:


> Forgive me. Can anyone provide a thorough comparison of the T2, BHSE and KGSSHV. Using either/both 009/mk1.


 

 Also add The KGST to that as well.


----------



## eric65

nopants said:


> I think any impressions involving the RKV Mk3 should be discredited on account of how hideous it is


 
  
_As is probably the case of __the headphones JPS Abyss..._
And yet, the two coupled have a sound particularly good together ...
  
  
NB: RKV-II amp is not so ugly that it (you can choose the color silver for the feets)


----------



## kevin gilmore

a fully symmetric,complementary and differential electrostatic amp is possible.
 you need a pile of 2sa1968's and a pile of 2sc4686a's. You have to limit
 the power supplies to +/-450V.  and you need a fancy floating output stage
 control circuit to exactly control the output stage bias.  Think something
 along the lines of the computer that controls the Ragnarok.
  
 you will blow up lots of parts before you get the bias control exactly right.
 Maybe when Jason has nothing else to do for a few weeks.
  
 Don't forget the "Carbon"    (kgst with silicon carbide fets as the output stage)
  
 and "NanoTube"   (Silicon Carbide Circlotron)
  
 I have at least one each of diyt2,kgsshv,kgst,kgss,bh,bhse,ges,es1,megatron and probably a few more
 that I forgot.
  
 its really hard to figure out which amp/headphone to listen to every day.


----------



## FrankCooter

eric65 said:


> See also : http://www.head-fi.org/t/727055/diy-tube-amp-for-electrostats-transformer-coupling-vs-dc-coupling#post_10730457
> 
> 
> Hello FranckCooter,
> ...



 


While I appreciate your complement, there's a little misunderstanding going on here that is probably my fault. The transformer-coupled topology I was referring to (and use myself) is not the type employed by the Stax,Woo, or Verto boxes, where a low voltage, low impedance speaker level signal is stepped up to electrostatic headphone levels via an additional high winding ratio transformer. The transformers I use are very much like any other tube amp output transformer, except that the secondary winding is wound for a 1:1-1 ratio. Unlike Stax-type boxes, the high impedance of the amplifier output transformer primary is preserved, and there is no voltage step-up at all. All amplification is via the tubes, and the headphones are driven directly off the secondary of the amplifier output transformer.

Having never heard any transformer boxes except for the Stax, I'm not really qualified to render an opinion on them. I will say that the lower the winding ratio, the better the chance to build a quality unit. In a high level signal transformer such we're talking about here, as step-up increases, so does stray capacitance. The greater the stray capacitance, the greater the high frequency roll off. If you cut the primary turns to decrease the number of required secondary turns, you decrease the bass. A 1:5 step-up sounds a lot more promising than 1:50.


----------



## arnaud

frankcooter said:


> eric65 said:
> 
> 
> > See also : http://www.head-fi.org/t/727055/diy-tube-amp-for-electrostats-transformer-coupling-vs-dc-coupling#post_10730457
> ...




You mean Eric cannot leverage your ever more amazing diy work to help push his verto business? Now that's unfortunate.
Arnaud


----------



## antonyfirst

Hi, sorry for high-jacking the thread. I am going to try custom molds on my SR-003, and I was wondering if someone has already try that.
 In my understanding, the custom earmold shouldn't be too deep, since "air passage" might otherwise become too tight compared to how the 003 output the sound (they normally have a large nozzle and wide tips, compared to regular in-ears).
  
 I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice: ideally, I like the sound better when they are used without the headband (with the headband, the midbass is more abundant and the drivers are farther from the ear).
 From a sonic point of view, the only real limitation of the SR-003 (with standard tips) is the lack of deep bass. I'd like to achieve this with custom tips, without screwing the rest of the tonal balance, nor making them dark (like it happens, instead, with the tips that Stax put out lately, which resemble more those of a Sony iem).
 Any clues?
 I have already taken the ear canal impressions, so I only need to decide on depth before taking the plunge.


----------



## Jonathan66100

kevin gilmore said:


> a fully symmetric,complementary and differential electrostatic amp is possible.
> you need a pile of 2sa1968's and a pile of 2sc4686a's. You have to limit
> the power supplies to +/-450V.  and you need a fancy floating output stage
> control circuit to exactly control the output stage bias.  Think something
> ...


 
 Thank Kevin for this clarification.
 Therefore build a fully symeterique electrostatic amp this is forego most of the qualities they have when they are not fully symeterique.
 Thank at you Kevin, Franck and Michgelsen for helping me to better understand : )


----------



## eric65

frankcooter said:


> eric65 said:
> 
> 
> > See also : http://www.head-fi.org/t/727055/diy-tube-amp-for-electrostats-transformer-coupling-vs-dc-coupling#post_10730457
> ...


 
  
 Thank you very much for these latest information, very clear.


----------



## arnaud

antonyfirst said:


> Hi, sorry for high-jacking the thread. I am going to try custom molds on my SR-003, and I was wondering if someone has already try that.
> In my understanding, the custom earmold shouldn't be too deep, since "air passage" might otherwise become too tight compared to how the 003 output the sound (they normally have a large nozzle and wide tips, compared to regular in-ears).
> 
> I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice: ideally, I like the sound better when they are used without the headband (with the headband, the midbass is more abundant and the drivers are farther from the ear).
> ...



I have read about this kind of customization a year back or so. I believe the OP relied on sensaphonics custom molds.

More recently, it may have been Tyll at inner-fidelity who interviewed Stax US distributor (ces 2014 maybe) where he mentionned that custom molds were coming for the stax iems. Or I have dreamed and it was only a remodeling of the ear tip. 

Anyhow, adding silicon shells has been done, I have read it here, maybe you can do a search on the stax model number + sensaphonics, it should come up...

Arnaud


----------



## Jonathan66100

Hi all, Hi n3rdling : ) 
  
 That's it, 
 I have my X1T : D
  
 What to say except that often we think to have the best, but there have always better, he surpasses the Stax Dac Talent BD with update IVC 01 and of far: $ 
 it makes a bit more tribute to my Omega in pending SRM T2 ( I must take absolutely the SRM T2, seen the good quality that brought me the X1T ) 
  
  
 Here are some pictures : )
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## cucera

Hm I am thinking about this custom sleeves for 003 for a while, but the experiences here on headfi where mixed.

Anyway I view the 003 and 003 MK2 as the 2 most underrated headphones by Stax. On a good amp I prefer them tonaly to any Lambda- the deep bass is stunning. But the reason could be my ears are compatible.


----------



## schorsch

Congratulations,
I'm still looking for a X1t and a ca-x pro

Regards Georg

PS: i can swap a CA-Y, SRA14S with extra cards or Even a SRA 12S


----------



## n3rdling

Congrats Jonathan! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Pretty amazing sound, right?


----------



## Jonathan66100

Thank you Mike : )
  
 Incredible sound xD
 I would do a little more precise report when I would have time
 But now I anyway have to go at  bed: /
 It's late in France xD
  
 PS : sorry Georg : / i keep the mine and for long time :$
 I sincerely wish you to find one one day. it's hard but it's possible !


----------



## Ali-Pacha

frankcooter said:


> While I appreciate your complement, there's a little misunderstanding going on here that is probably my fault. The transformer-coupled topology I was referring to (and use myself) is not the type employed by the Stax,Woo, or Verto boxes, where a low voltage, low impedance speaker level signal is stepped up to electrostatic headphone levels via an additional high winding ratio transformer. The transformers I use are very much like any other tube amp output transformer, except that the secondary winding is wound for a 1:1-1 ratio. Unlike Stax-type boxes, the high impedance of the amplifier output transformer primary is preserved, and there is no voltage step-up at all. All amplification is via the tubes, and the headphones are driven directly off the secondary of the amplifier output transformer.


 
I dare a newbie / stupid question : no impact on output impedance, no voltage multiplier...so what are the transformers for ?

Ali


----------



## kevin gilmore

To isolate from B+, typically 400 to 600 vdc. Otherwise you have to use capacitors
 from the plates of the tubes, or lift the bias 580v above the DC voltage.


----------



## NoPants

Frank whatever became of your 845 amplifier?


----------



## FrankCooter

nopants said:


> Frank whatever became of your 845 amplifier?


 
  
 It's in daily use. There are still improvements to be made, but I'm pleased with the project.  I'm building a second one for a friend (mock up in lower photo).


----------



## Hun7er

God just beautiful !
 I pm you


----------



## NoPants

maybe you'd be interested in the gm70 tube- I've heard it's a cheap Russian 845? I noticed you ditched the first chassis, I was a real fan of the copper.


----------



## FrankCooter

nopants said:


> maybe you'd be interested in the gm70 tube- I've heard it's a cheap Russian 845? I noticed you ditched the first chassis, I was a real fan of the copper.



 


I'm a great fan of the GM70, particularly the copper plate version. I've used it extensively in speaker amps and once used it in a headphone amp designed for the K1000. I would have used it here except for it's tremendous filament requirements (20V@3A). The larger filament power supply would have required a third chassis. On the other hand, it's pretty hard to go wrong with an 845. It's one of the most linear high level voltage amplifying devices of ever built. I'm using metal plate versions that were briefly built a couple of years ago. They sound excellent but they were subject to failure at full 845 power ratings. Running them here at 700V@60mA, which is about half rated power. Never heard NOS, which is probably just as well considering their stratospheric costs.

I like copper chassis work too. It's just gotten too expensive. Years ago I bought a stock of .125" copper plate at below scrap prices . It's pretty much gone now. Copper plates for the two chassis of the 845 amp would have run over $400.00 plus finishing. These days I'm using powder coated aluminum. It's also a LOT easier to work than the copper.


----------



## Jonathan66100

It must be a little "trader" when making amp : D


----------



## yawg

schorsch said:


> Congratulations,
> I'm still looking for a X1t and a ca-x pro
> 
> Regards Georg
> ...


 
 I had the CA-X Pro for a couple of years, great gear with very impressive shunt power supply. Its achilles heel are the air condensers which died on mine. I sold it to another Stax enthousiast who apparently got US-made military air condensers for it.


----------



## milosz

Frank - cosmetics question for you-  what are you using for that black edge around the  chassis top plate?
  
 And- it's hard to see from the photo - but what is the chassis top plate?  Copper?  Looks kind of like copper.  It's hard to capture the color of polished metal on a photo, just like you can't convey the chatoyance of certain woods in a picture.


----------



## milosz

Kevin-
  
The SiC devices like amazing parts, do they have linear enough regions to use as amplifiers? ​  
  
GA08JT17-247

Drain to Source Voltage (Vdss)1700V (1.7kV)Current - Continuous Drain (Id) @ 25°C8A (Tc) (90°C)
  
GA04JT17-247

Drain to Source Voltage (Vdss)1700V (1.7kV)Current - Continuous Drain (Id) @ 25°C4A (Tc) (95°C)
  
They have a max dissipation around 9~15 watts, ​and seem to work happily up to 125 C  and higher in certain pulse uses...
  
  
 The Cree SiC parts are lower in cost and some have higher dissipation, I haven't really looked at these yet to see if they will work as amplifiers.


----------



## kevin gilmore

they are very linear and low distortion as long as you use enough current.
 which is why they need bigger heatsinks


----------



## NoPants

Sounds like these would work well in a dht application too


----------



## FrankCooter

milosz said:


> Frank - cosmetics question for you-  what are you using for that black edge around the  chassis top plate?
> 
> And- it's hard to see from the photo - but what is the chassis top plate?  Copper?  Looks kind of like copper.  It's hard to capture the color of polished metal on a photo, just like you can't convey the chatoyance of certain woods in a picture.


 
  
 The black edge is Gabon ebony. The top plate is a two-tone textured powder coat consisting of aged copper and a sort of dark coffee color. The wood is quilted maple, which although you can't tell it from the photograph, has an almost three dimensional depth to the figure.


----------



## NoPants

feel like posting a schematic?


----------



## FrankCooter

nopants said:


> feel like posting a schematic?


 
  
 If someone is really interested, I'm  happy to share any information, including schematics via PM. However I'm a little hesitant  to post a public schematic of something with an 850V power supply.
  
 It's really a fairly simple three stage SET amp. First stage is a CCS loaded type 76 triode that is directly connected to a 6V6. Second stage is the 6v6 driving an interstage transformer. Output is an 845 DHT driving a high level phase-splitting transformer. Only things unusual about the design is that the 845 runs on "fixed" bias (unusual in an SET amp) and that all of the power supplies, including the B+, are regulated. Eventually I'll probably try a directly-heated heated driver. The Russian 6P21S looks like an interesting candidate to replace the 6V6.
  
 Appreciate your interest.


----------



## milosz

frankcooter said:


> The black edge is Gabon ebony. The top plate is a two-tone textured powder coat consisting of aged copper and a sort of dark coffee color. The wood is quilted maple, which although you can't tell it from the photograph, has an almost three dimensional depth to the figure.


 
  
 I thought that might be Gaboon ebony. But, I thought, perhaps it's some sort of plastic or oxidized metal or who knows. Nice contrast.
  
 Powder coat?  Do you do your own powder coat? I've been trying to develop my own aesthetic as I build things, and powder coat was something I considered, but local shops want a ton for small jobs. Same for anodizing.  I've used bead blasting and polishing on metals, but I haven't been able to figure a way to get powder coat or anodizing done without spending a fortune.
  

 [NOTE: I build amps, including amps for STAX - hence this post is vaguely Stax - related.  The more I learn about fabrication, the prettier my electrostatic amp can look.]


----------



## milosz

kevin gilmore said:


> they are very linear and low distortion as long as you use enough current.
> which is why they need bigger heatsinks


 
 Ah.  Thanks.


----------



## gradohead123

What are people's opinions on how the new Stax range compares to the older models? I'm very happy with my Lambda Pro Signatures but wandering how much of an improvement I would see if I invested in a modern pair.


----------



## davidsh

gradohead123 said:


> What are people's opinions on how the new Stax range compares to the older models? I'm very happy with my Lambda Pro Signatures but wandering how much of an improvement I would see if I invested in a modern pair.



Not any if you feel content with the LS. That's my experience as a owner of LS and 307.


----------



## AnalogSavior

No first hand experience, but I read the 207 sounded similar to the 404LE.


----------



## astrostar59

I had the LNS as well, and loved them. They were getting a bit old but still worked ok.
 I sold them and got the 007s MK2s which struggled with power on my 323, so I bought the 717
 second hand. That worked fine, and it was a big jump from the LNS particularly the Bass.
  
 Then I bought the 009s and now use a KGSShv. However, the 009s do sound really good on the
 717, better than the 007s due to being easier to drive.
  
 Recently I borrowed a pair of 507s, and they also sound very good, closer to the LNS is sound
 but the bass is still much stronger and they are more dynamic.
  
 So, going back to your question, the current crop of 407/507 will beat the LNS IMO,
 the 007 and 009 blow them away. If you like the Stax sound you can't really go wrong.
 It is how much you want to spend really.
  
 The next jump is to use a better amp than the Stax amps IMO. But the money gets a bit silly
 unless you go DIY route.
  
 Good luck and hope this helps you.


----------



## cucera

davidsh said:


> gradohead123 said:
> 
> 
> > What are people's opinions on how the new Stax range compares to the older models? I'm very happy with my Lambda Pro Signatures but wandering how much of an improvement I would see if I invested in a modern pair.
> ...




I would simple say in the New Lambda Series they are all messed up tonally (too much boom bass and off hights) I agree with the Stax Mafia that the 207 with the old Diaphragm is the best of the bunch but still much worse than the best ones like
 Lambda Signature, LNS and 404ltd.


----------



## n3rdling

Keep the LS.  It and the LNS are much better than any modernish Lambda.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

I thought the original lambda beat out the signature? But the LNS bested them both?


----------



## astrostar59

Hmm, not sure. I heard the 507s and really thought they were an improvement over my LNS.
  
 However, if I was looking at the LNS and wanted to move up, I would say get the 007s. I had
 the Mk 2.5s, and they kicked in the bass and finally I had a realistic representation of live music.
  
 The Lambda series was kind of nice, etherial, spacial but lost out in too many other areas
 that just bugged me too much to be a realistic 'high end' system.
  
 1. The Lambda treble edge (early models worst IMO)
 2. Weak bass in 'hey where is the bass?'
 3. Weedy frames and construction
 4. Can rattle at higher volumes
 5. OK on classical, not so good on Jazz, weak on Rock
  
 If you use them on a calmer front end like a vinyl stage they may be acceptable
 to a point. On a highly resolving and less forgiving digital front end - not so hot.
  
 I found I liked them but almost never used them, so that tell you something. The 007s were
 never of my head......


----------



## n3rdling

keithpgdrb said:


> I thought the original lambda beat out the signature? But the LNS bested them both?


 
 The original SR-Lambda and the SR-Lambda Pro are both great as well.  I think I like the LS and LNS a little more though.


----------



## Michgelsen

I didn't like the Lambda Signature at all when I owned it, because of the infamous etch. The 202 and 507 don't have it, so I like them much more. The 507 has both more and better bass, which is good, but it is fairly bright. However, the brightness is tolerable for me (HD800 highs are too much for me as comparison) and the highs are smooth at least. The midrange of the 202 and 507 are identical sounding. I'd say their midrange is their weakest point and for the rest they are superb headphones. With the better bass, the 507 for me becomes an outstanding pair of headphones for EDM, with punchy bass, smooth etherial highs, and the slight midrange emphasis around 1-2 kHz that works well for synths and stuff.
  
 I'm very curious to hear the LNS one day. How is its midrange? Same Lambda bump around 1-2 kHz?
  
 The strong point of the 007mk1 for me is definately its midrange. Even though it's recessed, it's very lifelike and involving.


----------



## n3rdling

I think LNS has the best midrange/tone of any Lambda.  That's its strength.


----------



## padam

I think the original NB Lambdas are the best, it is difficult to say why, but all the rest seem to have a lack of life (veil if you like) in the midrange in comparison. All seem to have it to an extent besides the SR-009. These however, are crystal clear and very musical. You get the feeling that you are actually listening music, and that is quite hard to pull off.
 One trouble is that on digital the are somewhat thin and bright at times, but recently I've tried them on a good full-sounding analog system and they seem to be perfect (even rock seems to be fine).


----------



## Ra97oR

I love how the slightly edgy Lamda sound myself, so the new X07 series was a step down for me. However, what I found on the Lamda is that it really don't do soundstaging that well. It sounded somewhat vague compared to my other full-sizes and the A2000X and SA5000 certainly does portray the sense of sound coming in front of you much better.
  
 STAX did have a solution called the Sigma, loved it but can't find them...


----------



## davidsh

ra97or said:


> I love how the slightly edgy Lamda sound myself, so the new X07 series was a step down for me. However, what I found on the Lamda is that it really don't do soundstaging that well. It sounded somewhat vague compared to my other full-sizes and the A2000X and SA5000 certainly does portray the sense of sound coming in front of you much better.
> 
> STAX did have a solution called the Sigma, loved it but can't find them...


 
 Agreed, the sound stage is rather flat, lacking depth and not too big in general.
  
 The sigma solves that, though. I really like mine, even on the lowly T1 tube amp. 
  
 I actually bought mine for dirt cheap from an owner who couldn't find the going price online. No wonder as they are rare.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Same for me. Almost mint Sigma pro for under 400 € (shipping included), I've only had to change the headpad, too loose for my small head.

 Ali


----------



## davidsh

ali-pacha said:


> Same for me. Almost mint Sigma pro for under 400 € (shipping included), I've only had to change the headpad, too loose for my small head.
> 
> 
> Ali



120 € for lambda NB in good condition (also got a srd-6 and the ugly stand, though no packaging)


----------



## Ali-Pacha

You mean Sigma NB, right ? 120 € is a steal, indeed.

 Ali


----------



## davidsh

ali-pacha said:


> You mean Sigma NB, right ? 120 € is a steal, indeed.
> 
> 
> Ali



Of course, that one slipped.


----------



## Hun7er

davidsh : you prefer Sigma normal bias than pro bias ?


----------



## davidsh

hun7er said:


> davidsh : you prefer Sigma normal bias than pro bias ?



Never tried pro bias, sorry.


----------



## padam

hun7er said:


> davidsh : you prefer Sigma normal bias than pro bias ?


 
  
 The are more similar than different the Pro is slightly more extended and a bit better behaved at the bass. They are really "love or hate" kind of headphones, sadly, in the end I ended up in the latter camp.
 As the internal damping material starts to age the sound may change, at one time I had two NB Sigmas, one like new and one in good condition and the mint one sounded better.

 Personally, I think the soundstage "problem" is a bit overrated, if something is really well recorded and mixed (there are some limitations here) it will have a very good natural soundstage and no real "muddiness" in the imaging.
 Or is somebody is really into speaker-like presentation, the Realiser A8 is incomparably superior to the Sigmas (or AKG K1000s) in my opinion. Although, admittedly, this system is more expensive and has its own limitations/quirks as well.


----------



## antonyfirst

I must say I prefer the Lambda Normal bias to the Lambda Nova Signature. The LNS are fuller and have a better overall tonality, but lose out in treble extension, resolution, transparency, and have slightly better midrange.
 The Lambda like a warm, analoguish source behind them (Museatex, Audionote, Metrum, Eximus, AMR, etcetera) in order to shine, but at that point they have far higher potential than the LNS, which are blurrier in comparison.


----------



## Moonhead

Guys.. Anyone tried comparing Stax 007 MKI vs HD800.

I Guess details are more obvious with HD800, but which is most forgiving with bad Masters ?

I have owned HD800, Never tried 007.

I know the a very different, but thinking of down scaling to either of em.


----------



## padam

moonhead said:


> Guys.. Anyone tried comparing Stax 007 MKI vs HD800.
> 
> I Guess details are more obvious with HD800, but which is most forgiving with bad Masters ?
> 
> ...


 
 The SR007s are more forgiving, not necessarily because they are darker but because they present details in a more subtle way. Source is also a big factor.
 They are very diferrent to the HD800s, but if you don't like them, re-selling shouldn't be too hard.


----------



## Moonhead

Cheers Padam.. 
  
 I might just get some 007 then


----------



## mulveling

moonhead said:


> Guys.. Anyone tried comparing Stax 007 MKI vs HD800.
> 
> I Guess details are more obvious with HD800, but which is most forgiving with bad Masters ?
> 
> ...


 
 I don't like the HD800 all that much; I find it bright in the wrong ways and generally presenting obstacles to my enjoyment of music. These can be mitigated somewhat with amp pairings, but I like them best with amps that significantly change their natural signature (yes I've heard them with GS-X Mk 2), which is of course a slippery slope.
  
 I really love the 007 Mk I, but only with the right amp paring, which is even more tricky than with the HD800. With the right amp, it can beautifully walk the line between forgiving and detailed. The BHSE or a DIY T2 will make it sing, obviously. A KGSShv can get me quite close to that as well -- but here slight tonal differences between builds can have a large overall impact on my enjoyment of the 007 Mk I (unlike with the 009, here you don't want one with a sense of sweetness or warmth). The 007 Mk I are way darker than HD800, and if you pair it with a warm or underpowered amp it will sound dull and basically unenjoyable. In fact below a KGSShv I'd probably rather give the HD800 a go. I've heard the 007 with a Stax 727 and it was awful beyond words...I'd rather listen to Apple's ear pods.
  
 Now the SR-009 is an example of a "bright" phone that doesn't bother me in the typical bright ways...and it's a bit more forgiving of amp, though you'll still want at least a nice KGSS (it's VERY mediocre when paired with an un-modded 727), and here's where a slightly warm/sweet amp voicing makes for a great pairing. The SR-009 has been my choice of headphone for the last few months, and will remain so until I get an amp better optimized for the 007 Mk I again -- at which point I'll probably go to a 50/50 split between them. I've heard the HD800 a number of times now on nice gear, and if I liked them enough I'd have already bought a pair.


----------



## Moonhead

Thanks for chiming in, Guys.
  
 Well I have a KGSSHV right now.. 
  
 009 plays multiple genres better than HD800, but again I never listen to 007. 
  
 To me cymbals doesn't sound right on 009, actually better on HD800, maybe 007 will be perfect!


----------



## paradoxper

I think Mulveling pretty much covered it. I will say though I enjoyed the mk 1 and HV much more than anything I've heard from the HD800. I also feel the mk 1 pulls more detail out of a recording, it just doesn't do it in a in your face way. For dynamics the HD800 has impressive technical ability, but compared to Stax I just don't think it compares at all.
  
 With the 009 being so revealing and a bit bright, I think your source will play an important role. So before you decide it's the 009 consider trying some other sources.


----------



## negura

moonhead said:


> Guys.. Anyone tried comparing Stax 007 MKI vs HD800.
> 
> I Guess details are more obvious with HD800, but which is most forgiving with bad Masters ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The 007 MKIs are directly responsible for me selling my HD800s and that was on a SET tube amplifier (very close to neutral sound signature and actually quite solid state sounding) + Woo Wee. This was in part because the 007s were much more enjoyable headphones and I didn't have to work hard to "please" the headphones to be able to enjoy them. That said on the KGSSHV I have at the moment, the 007s have scaled tremendously, to a point were sometimes they are very close to the 009s. Sometimes.
  
 Oh btw - I thought the KGST drives them very nicely too and it may be cheaper.


----------



## Moonhead

Thanks Guys, your input is much appreciated. 
  
 Seems lige the differences between 007 and 009 and quite subtle!


----------



## gepardcv

moonhead said:


> Seems lige the differences between 007 and 009 and quite subtle!


 
  
 Not subtle at all, in my opinion. I've compared them on a KGSSHV and on a BHSE. They don't sound similar at all. The HD800 is closer to the 009, but not quite at the same level. The 007 is quite dark compared to the 009. Comparing the two side-by-side isn't even fair to the 007, as it sounds downright muffled.


----------



## Moonhead

Roger that


----------



## negura

In a less than subtle comparison with dynamic headphones:
 The 009s are what Sennheiser wish the HD800s would have been. But perhaps that's why they're working on an electrostatic flagship. The SR007s in terms of sound signature are the superhero ancestor of Hifiman and Audeze.


----------



## davidsh

Sennheiser working on a stat.. Isn't that just a rumour that has been running for years?


----------



## Moonhead

Well in some ways i felt LCD3 sounded more natural that HD800, IMO.
007 Might be what Im lookin for


----------



## eric65

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moonhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Seems lige the differences between 007 and 009 and quite subtle!
> ...


 
  
 +1
  
 Not subtle at all, in my opinion (also). I've compared them on a RKV-II amp + Verto. They don't sound similar at all. 
 The SR-007 mk3 (SR-007 mk2 with blocked vent) is quite dark compared to the SR-009. 
 Comparing the two side-by-side isn't even fair to the 007, as it sounds downright muffled.
 The sound of the 009 is much clearer and readable than 007.


----------



## wink

Doesn't mean it's not true.
  
 Word on the ground is it will be ready for Sennheiser's 70th anniversary in 2015.
  
 They were founded in June 1 1945.


----------



## gepardcv

moonhead said:


> Well in some ways i felt LCD3 sounded more natural that HD800, IMO.
> 007 Might be what Im lookin for


 
  
 Quite likely. I thought the SR-007 is rather like the LCD3 done right, though, to be fair, I never compared them side-by-side. I'm rather biased, as I'm not fond of the Audeze house sound, whereas I really like Stax (and Sennheiser).


----------



## Michgelsen

davidsh said:


> Sennheiser working on a stat.. Isn't that just a rumour that has been running for years?


 
  
 Yes, it has been running for years, even before the HD800 was out. But maybe, they have indeed been working on a stat for all those years...
  
  


moonhead said:


> To me cymbals doesn't sound right on 009, actually better on HD800, maybe 007 will be perfect!


 
  
 I can't say how the cymbals will sound to *you* via the 007, but something that's typical of the SR-007mk1 is that it has, generally speaking, a recessed midrange AND recessed highs (but it's not overly bassy, so I wonder what's left?), yet it has a peak around 10 kHz that seems to give the impression that there are more highs than there actually are. It works, but it's still a peak that can sometimes distract a little bit, though it's not in an annoying part of the frequency spectrum for most people. For example, it cannot be compared to the infamous Lambda etch. Still, all headphones have their peaks I guess. The SR-007mk1 is a very real sounding pair of headphones, but the highs are technically a bit less neutral, yet still good sounding luckily. To me, cymbals sound very real. 
  
 Maybe some people don't even notice the 10 kHz peak, as I've not seen it mentioned many times. The opposite in fact: people often compliment the SR-007mk1 on its smooth highs. I can only partially agree with that. At least the quantity of the highs is not too much; a common flaw of other headphones unfortunately.
  
  


paradoxper said:


> For dynamics the HD800 has impressive technical ability, but compared to Stax I just don't think it compares at all.


 
  
 I completely agree. I recently auditioned an HD800 again (second time), but found the gap between it and Stax unacceptably large. Going back to the HD800 or any dynamic, you loose too much of the incredible clarity and cleanliness of stats.


----------



## georgep

Just a general comment on the 007 as it would be more useful if people indicated which one they are talking about as there are at least 3 that sound very different from one another - mk1 (and there are about three versions, debateable as to which is best), mk2 (with sz2 serial) and mk2 (with sz3 serial, also referred to as the mk2.5). The mk2.5 is the least desirable of the 3 and port modding it reportedly does not help its sound much (have not had one so can't say 1st hand). On the other hand, port modding and changing the springs on the mk2 sz2 brings it's sound in line with the mk1.

Also, from how Kevin Gilmore describes the functionality of the rkv/verto combo, I would expect the 007 (any version) to sound terrible with it - which is in line with what Eric65 has said.


----------



## Moonhead

Thanks a bunch guys..

Well Im beginning to appreciate or get to known these 009 better.
Only reason for this confusion is money and family relations, so I might keep 009 I might get 007!

Very helpful Michgelsen on 007 and I agree with Paradox too, that HD800 is a dynamic has a very different sound all together, nonetheless technical impressev.

Couldn't play a lot of genres with HD800, can play almost anything on009, don't known about 007.

I guess I just had to let that transparency get under the skin


----------



## eric65

georgep said:


> Just a general comment on the 007 as it would be more useful if people indicated which one they are talking about as there are at least 3 that sound very different from one another - mk1 (and there are about three versions, debateable as to which is best), mk2 (with sz2 serial) and mk2 (with sz3 serial, also referred to as the mk2.5). The mk2.5 is the least desirable of the 3 and port modding it reportedly does not help its sound much (have not had one so can't say 1st hand). On the other hand, port modding and changing the springs on the mk2 sz2 brings it's sound in line with the mk1.
> 
> Also, from how Kevin Gilmore describes the functionality of the rkv/verto combo, I would expect the 007 (any version) to sound terrible with it - which is in line with what Eric65 has said.


 
  
 I agree that headphone Stax 007 (family) probably sound better with an amp made ​​by Kelvin Gilmore than with my combo. (NB : for the 009, it's a different story: see dedicated post and "my" paintings by Claude Monet http://www.head-fi.org/t/727630/audiovalve-rkv-ii-otl-amp-2014-version-audiovalve-box-adapter-verto-for-stax-headphone-and-for-low-impedance-orthodynamic-eletrodynamic-headphone/150#post_11020997 ). 
 With the other amp I know (Stax SRM 727 stock): the association SRM-727 + SR-007mk2 (or mk3) is even worse.


----------



## DairyProduce

Just when I was thinking of buying a 009, Sennheiser's getting ready to come out with another stat? Guess I have to wait a bit longer to see...


----------



## arnaud

And replenish your wallet if it is indeed like 15kUSD...


----------



## DairyProduce

Meh. At that price I'd rather spend my money on something other than headphones


----------



## n3rdling

HD800 is great for videogames, 007/009 are great for music. 
  
 The only dynamic I'd put up there with the best electrostats is a very good condition/restored R10, and that's because the mids are so good.


----------



## NoPants

HD800 is too artificial sounding for my tastes, one caveat I have about 007 is that I end up listening at levels that are way too high


----------



## Moonhead

HD800 Good for video games, Good one guys


----------



## NoPants

I don't think he's joking


----------



## Moonhead

Sounds like a joke to me.. Come on guys!
I know this is the Stax thread, but HD800 is a very good can, nonetheless.


----------



## arnaud

With HD800's expansive soundstage, I can imagine it works well for video games. Its clean response is a good match for electronic music too.


----------



## NoPants

I would also use the HD800s for gaming because I don't have to turn on a space heater to run them


----------



## davidsh

Besides, they are very comfy...


----------



## Ra97oR

For someone that takes video games seriously, I can say precise soundstaging will give you a large advantage in many competitive shooters.


----------



## milosz

Has anyone noticed the HE90's on Audiogon?  http://app.audiogon.com/listings/in-ear-sennheiser-orpheus-he90-headphones-2014-11-06-headphones-n15-5lh
  

  
  
 This seller must have HUGE ears, if he thinks these are 'in-ear' 'phones.
  
 Maybe the seller is clearing his headphone rack for the new Sennheiser electrostatics rumored to be coming....


----------



## Ra97oR

Hmm, What. $3400? I can see this gone in no time.


----------



## cucera

Scam!!!! Bank transfer only!!!!


----------



## georgep

Cut the seller some slack. He is throwing in the Orpheus remote control at no extra cost and is offering free shipping...


milosz said:


> Has anyone noticed the HE90's on Audiogon?  http://app.audiogon.com/listings/in-ear-sennheiser-orpheus-he90-headphones-2014-11-06-headphones-n15-5lh
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Cut the seller some slack. He is throwing in the Orpheus remote control at no extra cost and is offering free shipping...


----------



## Ra97oR

cucera said:


> Scam!!!! Bank transfer only!!!!


 

 I am in London at least 3 days a week, tempted to ask to just do a face to face trade. But yes, that really does sounds fishy, 0 rep too.


----------



## shipsupt

The fact that the exact pictures can be found in threads on the internet dating back to 2011 does not bode well for it being a real seller.


----------



## themad

shipsupt said:


> The fact that the exact pictures can be found in threads on the internet dating back to 2011 does not bode well for it being a real seller.


 
 You can add the fact he registered yesterday...


----------



## mulveling

Guys, this is a pattern that's been going on for a while on audiogon. They are all scams. It's always some desirable item that's listed at least half of the going market rate, coming out of England or Europe with no feedback record. I've also seen it on SME V tonearm (listed at under $1500, way too low) and most recently a Koetsu Rosewood Platinum (reusing the same photo from a LEGIT audiogon seller that I happened to remember from YEARS ago; something like $1400, again way too low). Inevitably they'll ask for a wire transfer payment.
  
 The combination of too-good-to-be-true, no feedback, and coming outside USA flags it as a scam period; no need for further discussion. I'd advise you to not even waste your time trying to work out something "safe" with the seller or asking for more pics, etc -- it's simply a waste of time as they do not have the item and have no intentions other that to steal your money.


----------



## Jobbing

mulveling said:


> The combination of too-good-to-be-true, no feedback, *and coming outside USA flags it as a scam period*; no need for further discussion. I'd advise you to not even waste your time trying to work out something "safe" with the seller or asking for more pics, etc -- it's simply a waste of time as they do not have the item and have no intentions other that to steal your money.


 
  
 What?


----------



## Michgelsen

Although to be fair, within Europe it's not unusual to use bank transfer, since it's quick and free. I have personally used this a few times with reputable sellers without problems. On an expensive item, 3.4% fee or what is it does add up.
 Not that this makes the mentioned ad legit, but bank transfer does not necessarily equal scam.


----------



## n3rdling

Hope nobody actually fell for that...


----------



## project86

Bank transfers or out of USA locations in and of themselves are not the issue, it's the totality of the risk factors that matter.


----------



## Hun7er

Hi,
  
 I received a Sigma 404 and Spritzer KGST. This combinaison is awesome. It has powerful bass like an Audeze with finesse, smoothness and liquidity of an Stax.


----------



## kothganesh

project86 said:


> Bank transfers or out of USA locations in and of themselves are not the issue, it's the totality of the risk factors that matter.


 

 Agreed. I live in India and have used bank transfers to pay for my purchases (albeit 3 transactions).  I have also gotten bit by transacting with a person on Head fi and using Paypal. The money has vanished. Counterparty comfort level is very important. In our hobby more so.


----------



## milosz

Geez I didn't see all these issues...  wow.
  
 In fact, that listing is gone now  with  "This seller's listing has been suspended"​replacing it.​  
I've seen those clearly bogus listings on eBay  where some seller's account has gotten hijacked- someone with 561 trades and a 100% feedback  selling a pair of Focal Grande Utopias, an MBL amplifier, a pair of Wilson Alexia's, a Magico A7, a Caliburn Turntable, big Pass Labs amp.... then you look and all their previous sales have been comic books or collectible barbie dolls, no audio gear at all.....​


----------



## Ali-Pacha

hun7er said:


> Hi,
> 
> I received a Sigma 404 and Spritzer KGST. This combinaison is awesome. It has powerful bass like an Audeze with finesse, smoothness and liquidity of an Stax.


 
 Pics or it didn't happen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## Jonathan66100

Hi all : )
  
 Regarding my STAX DAC-X1T (it's really beautiful object) I confirm that the low frequencies are exceptional, they go down lower and earn much impact and therefore of presence, this it isn't negligible when we know that this is the weaknesses of STAX headphones.
 The soundstage is more pronounced and extended, complex instruments like the saxophone and piano are extremely well made.
 Albums "piano collection" is now a real treat to listen to.
 The voices are also better made (no sssss, tttsss, ssshhh or other) and are not too far forward or too far back this which reinforces the natural of the scene. They are fair and without adding masquerade,just the emotion has desired transmit the interpreter.
  
 No frequency eats another and when a new instrument made its appearance we hear immediately and clearly.
 He remains neutral and musical, it certainly have not this enchanting side that have the sigma NB on voice, but it's an advantage for the other instruments which can be appreciated at their true value, of simple and discreet triangle or a few bass notes to this strong cymbals or rhythmic drumbeats.
  
 I repeat myself, but I did not expect have a so great improvement with a DAC.
 I can not imagine what would make me one SRM T2.
  
 Some measures STAX DAC-X1T for those interested :


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## xrobbo

Hello to everybody in this Stax Thread. I own a Stax system made of SR 407 + SRM007t II. I am planning to drive it through my Imac, and to that extent I need a DAC.
 I am a bit in trouble in deciding what to buy. 
 My question is pretty simple: considering that in this rig the pride of place will be given of course to the Stax system, which DAC would be adequate for letting it do its job in the best conditions?
 This means that I look for neutrality, and would avoid to buy something which is either above or below the quality level of the Stax.
 I have no idea what this means in terms of budget. If this will not diminish the performance of the Stax, I would be happy to remain below the 1000$ psychological threshold.
 So far I have considered the following: Schiit Gungnir and Audio-gd NBF1. They should work well with the Stax but I have not the opportunity to try them before buying. But certainly there are also other options worthy exploring.
 Hopefully someone here can give me good advice on this point.
 Thanks


----------



## kothganesh

xrobbo said:


> ................
> So far I have considered the following: Schiit Gungnir and Audio-gd NBF1. They should work well with the Stax but I have not the opportunity to try them before buying. But certainly there are also other options worthy exploring.
> Hopefully someone here can give me good advice on this point.
> Thanks


 
 I use the Gungnir and pair it with the KGSShv. It is a value-laden DAC. While not the greatest in resolution, it has very good extension either way and the vocals are very very good. It is upgradeable as well. I got it with the USB and I highly recommend it.


----------



## Jonathan66100

There are also sometimes the DAC Stax Dac Talent who are really not bad for 500 euros.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/701755/fs-stax-dac-talent-price-drop-worldwide-shipment


----------



## xrobbo

seems to be pretty old though - early '90 production or am I wrong?
 I fear that innovation in technology could make this option a little outdated and outperformed by today's DAC's in the same price range.


----------



## Jonathan66100

It all depends on what you search
 I have a STAX DAC TALENT BD and for me it is anything except outdated.
 it makes a lot more music compared others that I tried.
 But it may have a bit less details.

 16bit 44hz enough for me : )
  
 PS: and if you do not love it, you do not lose money on resale.


----------



## kothganesh

xrobbo said:


> seems to be pretty old though - early '90 production or am I wrong?
> *I fear that innovation in technology could make this option a little outdated and outperformed by today's DAC's in the same price range.*


 

 Well my friend, you will be surprised about how certain vintage DACs(not necessarily all) are better than the most modern ones. For further reading check the "Thoughts on a bunch of DACs......." thread on Head fi.


----------



## levap

Couple of words about metal music + Stax 009 and 007MK2. (Summary on impressions on metal + almost 60 cans is here http://www.head-fi.org/t/715478/headphones-for-metal-music-ultimate-solution)
  
*Stax 009*
 We welcome one more headphones which talents lie outside metal genres. Alas, Stax SR-009 for me are among "great, but non-metal headphones". It's rather sad for the person spoiled by a bass volume of many of top contemporary dynamic and isodynamic cans to find such a problem, actually the only problem, in a supertop headphones. 009 just don't provide enough of bass pressure for metal. Other technical parameters of 009 surely bypass most of competitors. 
  
 Couple of words about technical performance. I listened 009 with Wooaudio WES (tubes used - Tesla EL34, Sylvania 6SL7GT). Also tried 009 on Headamp KGSS, but its powerful and brawny character, considerably concealed pluses of 009, but but could not cope to conceal the only minus (bass performance). With WES 009 possess the stunning, huge scene. Exciting, detailed, with no trace of fatiguing brightness. Natural, stunningly realistic mids, originally - dead neutral, with tubes used - slightly warm. A bass - fast, detailed, extended, but compared to many top cans, not too large in volume.
  
 That was pleasant on metal:
*Progressive*: Slightly pale, but nevertheless extremely impressive reflection of abilities 009 to play a prog-rock (The genre created for headphones, the headphones created for a genre. Behind each turn, the new line - an invariable new portion of endorphins. Wide, airy. Ideal contact of 009 signature with music material.)  …
*Heavy Metal*: The vocal hypnotizes and moves you far beyond. Instrumental parts flow like clouds in the sky. Above than "simply perfect". But shoot me at my foot - it seems that it's is possible to perform Hard Rock even better.
*Symphonic*: Symphonic and vocal fragments are at such a level… The endorphin volume quite replaces the easiest failure of the drive (compared to 007). Better than many of the best, but not absolute top perhaps.
*Goth*: And this is perhaps not "simply the best", but "the best of the best". The abundance of voice parts allows to clear up, reveal in the full grew key pluses, generally slow tempo with no need in bass shock doesn't allow minus to creep out.
  
 That was pleasant less:
*Industrial*: Pressure of a metal wall has to smear you methodically on a floor. Doesn't smear. There is no massage of liver on the infra-bass.
*Sludge, Stoner*: Where power and light-hearted enthusiasm are necessary - 009 give in, alas. Lack of bass pressure and lack of crazy energy.
*Power*: Technically perhaps quite okay - soundstage is wide, the vocal is great, a lack of a bass isn't too bad. But atmosphere... 009 play too serious and even for Power metal.
*Black*: Very precise and accurate. But bomehow toy-like... On a bass - as if you you look at the tiny dwarfs through magnifying glass. But it supposed to be a terrible giant, arousing fear.
*Death*: Impressions on Black repeated. The little man behaves violently representing the titan.
*Grindcore*: Accurately, but not impactful enough. Filigree, but not brutal. Seemingly razor-sharp, but razor doesn't cut a throat.
*Doom*: Not so bad as could follow from abstract bass volume shortage analysis. The bass after all has excellent extent, the infra-bass is present. But the level of low frequency fat is really low to recreate impressive Doom atmosphere.
*Alternative*: Technically everything is almost okay, but for top top level cans - not ideal. Not enough of slam, not so desperate as in other metal subgenres, but nevertheless. Lack of "spark", 009 play too even and true.
  
 Grand total. If the considerable part of music preferences of yours consusts of nonmetallic genres, with a highest probability minuses noted in the review can be irrelevant for you. It is possible to ignore them safely and to considet 009 best cans for metal also. If there is no wish or it is impossible for you to ignore more bass-heavy dynamic/orthodynamic cans, alas, in my opinion - 009 on metal are niche players, one of the of the best however for these niches.
  
*Stax 007MK2*
 On non-metal genres I listened 007 on WES, on a meatal - KGSS. Alas, on both amplifiers there was a feeling that 007 are under-amplified. On non-metal genres with WES such a feeling perhaps even makes the certain flavour, that a right for existence. KGSS plays fast and powerful metal better, than WES, but... Impression that 007 can play better, much better does not leave me.
  
 KGSS + 007 have well controlled, dense bass. Euphoric electrostatic air on  mids and highs is blown off a bit - welcome to solidstate amplification. Mids of 007 are a little more flat compared to 009. The soundstage is much less, than 009's scene. But, the most amusing - 007's minuses manage to turn to pluses on some genres. 
  
 Joy:
*Heavy Metal*: If 009 were made as lethal weapon for progressive rock, 007 MK2 were created as hard rock lethal weapon. Add some more of "meat", "brutality" and even reduced soundstage (in comparison with 009) - everything in 007 sound signature develops in pluses on a genre, realizing outstanding result.
*Doom*: Somewhat unexpected. Strangely enough, even on going to an overload (hello, Monolord) 007 don't give in neither on density nor on power. The pure mids gives special, fauvorable for Doom flavour.
*Sludge, Stoner*: Genre is a mix of Doom and Heavy metal and so are results.
*Alternative*: Well. The vocal fascinates in an ordinary electrostatic manner. PRAT drives. The bass slam is more than enough for the genre. Above than "an average excellent".
*Thrash*: If cans are magnificent on vigorous rock, is it the reason to give them top marks for every rock-ish genre? On Thrash - definitely. Energy whips, speed impresses, detail level id striking, but not straining.
  
 Grieve:
*Black, Death, Grindcore*: I listened 007 on Black for a long, I was thinking, I was looking for an answer on forum threads. What's the problem?, It seems like everything is accurate and balanced, technical abilities of 007 fit Black metal very well. But. Anyway. On Black, Death and Grindcore after couple of minutes of listening subconscious message doesn't allow to take full pleasure from music. A bass. Drums sound as if at peaks of signals sinusoidal tops are cut off plainly. Or in poles between "humps" of peaks of signals sand is filled up. Terribly unpleasant. The most probable reason for this - KGSS (not hv version) under-amplifies 007 MK2. At least on on fast extreme genres.
*Power*: No. Not enough of space for power-metal soul to take off. Too seriously it thumps, too heavy for a flight.
*Progressive, Symphonic*: Excessively heavy, especially on contrast with 009, there is no the wide and ringing emptiness, magical "nowhere" from which sounds of music appears. A closet - not a soundstage for Progressive and Symphonic metal.
*Goth*: Typically mediocre for vigorous cans. It is not a right time for and joyful run. It is better to sit and grieve in a cold of the night.
  
 With a regret I has to note that if 009 on nonmetallic genres unambiguously make absolutely indelible impression, 007 on metal don't make such radical impression. Certainly 007 are among top of the top headphones, but they're not top of the top of the top )) I had no time for adaptation to 007 sound signature, couple of weeks is not enough? Perhaps. Not my sound? Possibly. But feelings from 009 listening were like "Wow...", from 007 it was more loke "Hmm, somehow something isn't perfect, it seems like cans XXX play it better". And even thus that as a rule XXX played at the similar level, but in a different way, 007 were by default considered as catching up...
 Planning to try 007 later on more appropriate amplification.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Have you tried JPS Labs Abyss ? At least torture / gothic / medevial design should match 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ali


----------



## xrobbo

Well, (in reply to Kothganesh and Jonathan6610), I was conjecturing that in a sector in which technological advances has been tremendous in the last 15 years, perhaps these advances have implied better quality at a much lower price.
 But this is a conjecture: meaning I'm asking for feedback by those who have had the opportunity to compare.
 I wonder for example how a 16bit 44ghz would fare with files with a higher sampling.
 but certainly buying-trying-reselling if not satisfied makes a lot of sense, provided one finds one somewhere....


----------



## levap

ali-pacha said:


> Have you tried JPS Labs Abyss ? At least torture / gothic / medevial design should match
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Impressive image is not the only virtue of Abysses on metal )) I hope to try them vs HE-6 for a couple of weeks starting this weekend.


----------



## Rossliew

I've listened to death/back/doom/thrash on a variety of cans, namely HE-6/500, Audeze LCD-XC, HD600/650/800, Koss ESP950 (with E90 amp and with KGST), Grado RS1/225i/60i (both woody mod) and i find the dynamic cans to be best for metal. The electrostats not so great due to a lack of bass body although the speed and airiness is impressive. 
  
 The LCD-XC are not so good (for me) with metal as the mid bass is lacking leading to a less than fun factor. Hence, the Grados do metal very well for me, so do the Hifimans. Mid-bass punch makes it all the more fun to listen to metal with.


----------



## paradoxper

I'll say it again, the 009 stomps out just about every phone with metal. The HE-6 is probably the only other headphone that definitely has more body, but loses out
 in speed, resolution and overall magic. That is, it doesn't suck me into the music. Then again, I'm not a bass head who craves schitty boomy over emphasized crap.


----------



## remilio

paradoxper said:


> I'll say it again, the 009 stomps out just about every phone with metal. The HE-6 is probably the only other headphone that definitely has more body, but loses out
> in speed, resolution and overall magic. That is, it doesn't suck me into the music. Then again, I'm not a bass head who craves schitty boomy over emphasized crap.


 
 Amen! Unfortunately, there are way too many fans of denon/fostex crap sound...


----------



## n3rdling

It's interesting that people always assume more bass is automatically a good thing.  It's almost never looked at as a negative for some reason.


----------



## levap

paradoxper said:


> I'll say it again, the 009 stomps out just about every phone with metal. The HE-6 is probably the only other headphone that definitely has more body, but loses out
> in speed, resolution and overall magic. That is, it doesn't suck me into the music. Then again, I'm not a bass head who craves schitty boomy over emphasized crap.


 
 I can't say, that "overall magic" of 009 is the resource of critical importance on metal. It can be synergic to one genre (i.e. progressive) or can be almost anti-synergic for another (i.e. industrial). And other headphones can have their own "magic" (i.e. LCD-3 are extremely "magical" cans).
 The same can be told about "speed and resolution". "Speed and resolution" can have almost no importance on Doom, but they're critical i.e. for Grindcore. But. If headphones do not have enough bass power to apply to every detail on Grindcore (to have enough energy to hammer a nail in you head)), overall performance on genre gets far from perfect. 009 just lack energy needed here.
 Too much of bass also can be a drawback even on metal (there is a lot of examples in my thread).
  
 I understand, that deep involvment in sound signature of headphones can make it possible to listen every given genre with deep emotional responce. But. My enterprise is to exlpore objective reasons for headphones/music genres synergy. And objectively 009 are not the best choice for metal.


----------



## zolkis

remilio said:


> Amen! Unfortunately, there are way too many fans of denon/fostex crap sound...




Careful . I also like more a stock 007 mk1 than a stock TH900. It was bassy, slower, less clean and clear. My new 007 pads made the 007 sound more open, with larger sound stage and improved bass as well. My TH900 mods made the Fostex sound almost like the 007, except in the bass where it's even better and a costant flow of wow feeling, beating the HE6 and LCD3, I think it may even beat the Abyss too, although never compared directly. Dangerous claims aside, put in a more reserved way, my modded TH900 is better with rock/metal than my 007 with either stock or modded pads. That visceral, hard hitting, subterranean bass has such an energy Stax can't make the same way at the moment, and there is no way back once you heard it rumbling and thundering. The 007 is absolutely enjoyable though, with advantages over the TH900, and I wouldn't miss much - if anything - had I not have the modded TH900 as well.

However, I would agree that in general, stat bass would be more natural, and preferable over most closed basshead phones sound.

As for one, I liked the 009 bass more than the stock 007mk1, because the larger sound stage and better definition, but with the better pads the gap is much less, if not reversed (at least in the bass area).


----------



## CharlesJohnson

zolkis said:


> Careful
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for your comparison of the th900 against 007! How would you say the 007mk2.5 fares against the fostex flagship? The newer stax revision, although less neutral sounding, seems to have higher bass spl before the 30hz and below infrasonic range, and many have attributed its sound signature to a more lively sounding balance, making the mk1 somewhat anemic in comparison. 
 I am also interested in what mods have been applied to your fostex headphones. Is it the lawton mods that many are talking about in the th900 thread?
 I am new to this headphone world, so I don't know much about the sound signatures and qualities of different headphones, but I do appreciate a more analogue-like sound with a generous serving of bass. I have the 009 with a DIY Blue Hawaii amp, as well as the lcd-3 fed by the Objective2, both setups receiving a signal from the resonnessence labs invicta dac. However, the 009 sound too bright for me as I hate treble, particularly in the 6-8khz region. So will something like the th900, modded, with a good amp sound closer to an an analogue sounding speaker like the B&W 801D, which I have and really like for its hefty bass and lack of sibilant treble?
 Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## xrobbo

> Well my friend, you will be surprised about how certain vintage DACs(not necessarily all) are better than the most modern ones. For further reading check the "Thoughts on a bunch of DACs......." thread on Head fi.


 

 Thanks for the suggestion, I went through a large part of the thread and found surprising things about new and old DACs. Wonder if what is being told about not new ones applies to PS Audio too. I have found an old model on sale close to where I live, the PS Audio superlink, but could not find any information about how it supposedly sound.
 Any idea?


----------



## zolkis

I don't have possibility to directly compare a 007 mk2 now to the Fostex, but at the time I listened to all Stax phones, the mk2 made the least impression of the bunch, in fact I liked the 507 more at first (definitely more lively), but it's true that I haven't spent enough time with it, which is absolutely critical for Stax headphones. Liveliness is perhaps not a good criterion for lasting first impression. The 007 mk1 didn't impress me either at first, but after one week it was magical . It taught me listening to the music in a different way, and I found it immensely satisfying. "Magical" is the word used when you cannot really quantify why something clicks in so good? Then yes it's magical .
  
 I love clean and well defined extended bass (I have full range speakers as well, plus REL Stadium subwoofers), and I am completely fine with the Stax bass, not really missing anything. However, in tonality the modded TH900 comes close to my main system, without room problems... I will post a thread about the TH900 mods, as it's something I've been working on for about half a year now together with another head-fier. Yes, it also uses a part of the basic Lawton mod (which has a little effect, but it's like the last drop in a glass rather than game-changing). If someone needs one all-purpose headphone, this would be the one I'd recommend, because the rather big improvement opportunities, and it doesn't sound bad to start with. However, this is still not good enough reason to move away from Stax . I mainly use the TH900 at the office (leaks much less) and the Stax+TH900 at home.
  
  
 The modded 007mk1 comes much closer to the 009 from my memory (I need to compare them head to head again, which looks to be difficult in this forgotten northern corner of the world), has very good bass and no treble issues at all, albeit it has more treble than the slightly reserved stock version, so that may be a good compromise as well. The 007 ear pad mod is quite simple compared to the TH900 mod, sets a nice open and large sound, but in bass department the TH900 is king. I should receive soon 009 replacement pads, want to try them with the 007, watch this space for updates.


----------



## levap

charlesjohnson said:


> I am new to this headphone world, so I don't know much about the sound signatures and qualities of different headphones, but I do appreciate a more analogue-like sound with a generous serving of bass. I have the 009 with a DIY Blue Hawaii amp, as well as the lcd-3 fed by the Objective2, both setups receiving a signal from the resonnessence labs invicta dac. However, the 009 sound too bright for me as I hate treble, particularly in the 6-8khz region. So will something like the th900, modded, with a good amp sound closer to an an analogue sounding speaker like the B&W 801D, which I have and really like for its hefty bass and lack of sibilant treble?
> Any help would be appreciated.


 
 If you're looking for "more analogue-like sound with a generous serving of bass", are not LCD-3 an answer? If you have LCD-3 version with no fazors you could inject some Fostex-like clarity into them if you move to fazors.
  
 And if you find 009 too bright I'm afraid 900 are no cure, they make one more step into bright territory, compared to 009. If you want sound to move closer to speakers, one of the most speaker-like headphones are HE-6 (alas, the're not too dark also...)
  
 What do you miss now in 009 and LCD-3, what way they're not "analogue-like" enkugh?


----------



## Moonhead

Im you dont Like 009 bright signature Stick With LCD3 or get 007


----------



## cucera

Or get a new SR-009 they have reduced the treble quite significantly, but a SR-007 MK1 is never wrong except the amp


----------



## realmassy

cucera said:


> Or get a new SR-009 they have reduced the treble quite significantly, but a SR-007 MK1 is never wrong except the amp


 
  
 Where is this claim coming from?


----------



## cucera

I heard some rumors. The Stax Mafia confirmed on the other Site.

Now I found some measurements on Tylls site that look to me like a prove of that claim.

Old Version:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR009SZ91278.pdf

New Version?:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR009SNSZ92251KGSS.pdf


Up to 5dB difference 6-8 kHz


----------



## Rico613

I was listening to the new Cavalli Liquid Lightning 2T over the weekend using my SR009's.  I really like the sound coming from that amp - very clear and detailed with a touch of smooth tube warmth.  As for the 009's brightness, I've been using equalizers to tame those trebles.  There is a very good EQ thread on head-fi _here._


----------



## alcyst

cucera said:


> I heard some rumors. The Stax Mafia confirmed on the other Site.
> 
> Now I found some measurements on Tylls site that look to me like a prove of that claim.
> 
> ...


 
 You have done something odd with those links. Whatever was intended they actually to head-fi pages.
  
 Looks like your second is to this page;
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/stax-mafia-makes-unrefusable-offer-and-i-begin-electrostatic-headphone-measurement-program
  
 This page is probably the best source;
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-data-sheet-downloads
  
 It lists 4 SR009 of which the KGSS sample looks different, the other 3 seem similiar?


----------



## cucera

alcyst said:


> You have done something odd with those links. Whatever was intended they actually to head-fi pages.
> 
> Looks like your second is to this page;
> 
> ...




Weird! That worked in my browser in my browser. 

I have edited my post and pasted the links again. Now they should work.

No matter we see two SR -009 with different SN seperated by roughly 1000 and The second one being totally new. The differences are so big that normal variations within a series can be ruled out. But it is not unusual for Stax to change the drivers within a series without notification.

yes all the measurements are they are unther data sheets. And it is true that the last one was made with another amplifier the review version of for KGSS. But no solid state amp in the world can do differences of 5dB in this frequency range.


----------



## rgs9200m

rico613 said:


> I was listening to the new Cavalli Liquid Lightning 2T over the weekend using my SR009's.  I really like the sound coming from that amp - very clear and detailed with a touch of smooth tube warmth.  As for the 009's brightness, I've been using equalizers to tame those trebles.  There is a very good EQ thread on head-fi _here._


 
 Was this the tubed or solid state version? Any more comments on the 2T would be welcome. There is not much reported on it.
 Of course the sonics are the most important thing, but also: does the stepped volume control have fine enough gradations?
 How much heat does it generate? Thanks in advance.


----------



## MacedonianHero

cucera said:


> Weird! That worked in my browser in my browser.
> 
> I have edited my post and pasted the links again. Now they should work.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah...sorry, but they look rather identical to me and well within measurement variations.
 Furthermore, the older unit has it's FR shifted up at 1kHz (where it's typically should be set to 0dB) by about 3dB over the newer one. As well, if you look at the the same older unit with some "burn-in" applied, you will notice some shifting for that same reason AND the FR responses are pretty much identical older unit (w/ burn-in) and the newer one






.
  
 Plus, the newer one was tested on a proper KGSS and I'm not sure what Tyll used to measure the older one. If it was a Stax amp, then all bets are off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For variations on measurements, please have a look here:
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/expert-tests-innerfidelitys-headphone-measurement-repeatability-and-reproducibility


----------



## Super Pang

Hi fellas
  
 I fancy some STAX for Christmas. These will be my first electrostatic headphones. I was looking at the SR-507 and SRM-006tS as that combination fits my budget and I fancy trying valves. Slightly concerned to hear the 507 are bright though. Are the 407 less so? How fussy are they about source components?
  
 I'm thinking of buying from PriceJapan as the prices are so much cheaper than here in the UK. Am I right in thinking the 006tS sold here has an internal 230V power supply though? I'm no stranger to step-down transformers but it'll look a lot tidier without one I suppose. How often do these amps develop a fault? The lack of warranty would be a concern too. It's literally half the price though!
  
 Thanks


----------



## Michgelsen

Yes, if bought in the UK, the amp will be set up for 230V. Changing a Japanese import amp to 230V nowadays involves soldering and is tricky. Stax amps are reliable though, at least that's the impression I get around here. Only very sporadically a report surfaces from a malfunction. I have had a very old Stax amp malfunction once, but the problem was easily fixed by a local technician. I wouldn't worry about it. To be completely honest, I would worry more about the headphones malfunctioning before the amp.
  
 Differences between 507 and 407 are reported to be minimal and/or entirely caused by the slightly different pads. The headband is different however. Some people (with large heads for example) do not like the new 507 headband; others (like me) like it, because it clamps a bit better, providing a better seal, and actually remembers its size setting.
 The 507 is bright, but smooth, and also has good bass. I have a bad tolerance for sharp, bright highs, but somehow I can enjoy the 507, although it did need some getting used to.
  
 I think the 006tS is a good choice. I had a SRM-T1 in the past which is (almost completely) identical, and it was very good with Lambda's, which the 507 is too.
  
 All Stax are fussy about source components, as they are very transparent and detailed.
  
 Remember: with shipping, pricejapan fee, and most of all VAT, pricejapan will probably only be cheaper by 25% or so. I don't know about customs in the UK, but here in the Netherlands I have never had a package 'slip through' without having to pay VAT. It's up to you, but having warranty and being able to try before you buy is worth something too. If you can persuade the shop owner to lower the price a bit, the gap decreases even further. However, Japanese import remains attractive. See the 507 appreciation thread for a story about pricejapan and warranty/repairs though. Know that it is a risk.


----------



## cucera

macedonianhero said:


> Yeah...sorry, but they look rather identical to me and well within measurement variations.
> Furthermore, the older unit has it's FR shifted up at 1kHz (where it's typically should be set to 0dB) by about 3dB over the newer one. As well, if you look at the the same older unit with some "burn-in" applied, you will notice some shifting for that same reason AND the FR responses are pretty much identical older unit (w/ burn-in) and the newer one  .
> 
> Plus, the newer one was tested on a proper KGSS and I'm not sure what Tyll used to measure the older one. If it was a Stax amp, then all bets are off.




Sorry, you seem to look at totally different measurements. It is not so that the burned in is different at 7-8kHz. But definitly the new one.

I am posting a screenshot of the critical frequency 


old




new



And I see even 7 dB at 7-8kHz in this area a differenz at least as pronounced as the difference in a SR-007 MK1 to MK2.5, where everybode agrees upon those.

 This is my definition of a much brighter phone it is very unlikely the measurement and even impossible amp influence, the Mafia agrees with me. And as the older one was measured with a BHSE that should be even brighter than KGSS due to higher voltage swing and more current.


----------



## cucera

super pang said:


> Hi fellas
> 
> I fancy some STAX for Christmas. These will be my first electrostatic headphones. I was looking at the SR-507 and SRM-006tS as that combination fits my budget and I fancy trying valves. Slightly concerned to hear the 507 are bright though. Are the 407 less so? How fussy are they about source components?



If you are concerned about brightness take a 207 IMHO the best sub 009 in the current line as I don't like bright cans too.


----------



## MacedonianHero

cucera said:


> Sorry, you seem to look at totally different measurements. It is not so that the burned in is different at 7-8kHz. But definitly the new one.
> 
> I am posting a screenshot of the critical frequency
> 
> ...


 
  
 I strongly recommend that you read the article that I published and linked earlier from innerfidelity.com? Measurements in the treble region are not very repeatable:
  
_" ...the variability really begins to become strongly affected. The average standard deviation in this region is now almost 5dB. So yet again, variations of +/-5dB are to be expected in this region. The maximum variability is approximately 18dB, higher still. So it appears that the slightest headphone placement on the head can significantly change the high frequency resonances in the dummy head and drastically reduce the measurement system's ability to precisely measure higher frequencies."_
  
 As I also noted, please compare the older serial number AFTER burn-in (which is the exact same headphone...just with some more hours on it) and you'll see that it doesn't look the same as before burn-in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As well, look at the lower graphs of the individual measurements....they support the statement above with variations exceeding 10dB. As found in the data (this article used the HD800s), one standard deviation was 5dB. If we assume a Gaussian distribution, then one can expect 950 measurements out of 1000 to contain deviations to be within 10dB.
  
 And the amps were different! The latter one had the benefit of a "proper" amp (the KGSSHV) and the older one didn't.


----------



## cucera

macedonianhero said:


> I strongly recommend that you read the article that I published and linked earlier from innerfidelity.com? Measurements in the treble region are not very repeatable:
> 
> _"[COLOR=333333] ...the variability really begins to become strongly affected. The average standard deviation in this region is now almost 5dB. So yet again, variations of +/-5dB are to be expected in this region. The maximum variability is approximately 18dB, higher still. So it appears that the slightest headphone placement on the head can significantly change the high frequency resonances in the dummy head and drastically reduce the measurement system's ability to precisely measure higher frequencies."[/COLOR]_
> 
> ...




BHSE not a "proper" amp? And the Review unit is a KGSS with HV output transistors.

I have read the article, but that is why Tyll averages a few measurements. Still let's settle this with we agree to disagree.


----------



## MacedonianHero

I don't think it was a BHSE that he used for the measurements. And again, please look at the before and after burn-in measurements of the exact same headphone and how they differ. 

Plus my analysis was with Tyll's data that was averaged and that results show how much variation you got even while it was averaged.


----------



## cucera

OK the difference after burn in with the same phone is 3db, but the peaks keep their shape. So statistically it is not impossible that serial and measurement variations might add up to such an difference.

 Thank you, for your perseverance . As an engineer I wanted to find proof but the new revision of the SR-009 stays anecdotical with the data from Tylls measurement (as does burn in).


----------



## MacedonianHero

Nice to meet another engineer.


----------



## bearFNF

Engineers are hard to get along with sometimes, we need details and data...


----------



## MacedonianHero

bearfnf said:


> Engineers are hard to get along with sometimes, we need details and data...


 
  
 ERTW.


----------



## wink

Engineers designed and built the Titanic, and it went into liquidation.....
  
 A layman built Noah's Ark, and it floated a company.


----------



## headinclouds

super pang said:


> Hi fellas
> 
> I fancy some STAX for Christmas. These will be my first electrostatic headphones. I was looking at the SR-507 and SRM-006tS as that combination fits my budget and I fancy trying valves. Slightly concerned to hear the 507 are bright though. Are the 407 less so? How fussy are they about source components?
> 
> ...


 
 I tried the SR-507 with my KGST last evening.  They go together very well. I would like to try the less expensive phones such as -207 with the KGST to see how far this synergy can go..
 At a recent show I was impressed with the 207 and SRM 252.  A value package available in the UK for £745 with good support. It is not a valve amp though


----------



## cucera

headinclouds said:


> I tried the SR-507 with my KGST last evening.  They go together very well. I would like to try the less expensive phones such as -207 with the KGST to see how far this synergy can go.




So you have done your first built of a KGST, could you please post a picture?


----------



## headinclouds

cucera said:


> So you have done your first built of a KGST, could you please post a picture?


 
 I’m using it in wood case prototype at the moment.  The final case version is in the works and some weeks away.


----------



## milosz

> So far I have considered the following: Schiit Gungnir and Audio-gd NBF1. They should work well with the Stax but I have not the opportunity to try them before buying. But certainly there are also other options worthy exploring.
> Hopefully someone here can give me good advice on this point.
> Thanks


 
 I have owned a number of Audio-Gd products: headphone amps, headphone amp / DAC combos, preamp, and DACs.  I've always been impressed with their products.
  
 In particular I like their PCM1704UK- based DACs. Their current PCM1704 DAC is pricey, but you can often pick up a DAC-19 for under $500 on the used market (Head-Fi, US Audio Mart, eBay, Audiogon.)  I prefer the sound of my DAC-19 to any Wolfson WM8741 or Sabre ES9018  DAC I've heard. I prefer the PCM1704 R2R sound over the sigma-delta DACs.


----------



## gepardcv

headinclouds said:


> I would like to try the less expensive phones such as -207 with the KGST to see how far this synergy can go..
> At a recent show I was impressed with the 207 and SRM 252.



When I build my KGST, I'll post my take on this, since 207+252 is my only Stax setup right now (still gathering parts, waiting for a volume pot from Japan, need to order a transformer, haven't even started with casework — might take a while). Anyway, while demoing the 207, I thought it sounded slightly better from a 006t, a kind of richer and more involving sound than with the 252 (an impressive unit for its size, to be sure). I expect (and hope) that the KGST sounds better still.

FWIW, I also compared the 207 and 407 side-by-side from the 006t. Subtle differences at best, IMO.


----------



## Rico613

> Originally Posted by *rgs9200m* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Was this the tubed or solid state version? Any more comments on the 2T would be welcome. There is not much reported on it.
> Of course the sonics are the most important thing, but also: does the stepped volume control have fine enough gradations?
> How much heat does it generate? Thanks in advance.


 
 I had the LL2T  which has 4 6S4A driver tubes recessed into the case.  The tops of the tubes are not flush with the case they are recessed below so they are well protected, but are still accessible from the top.  With the lights off there is still a nice red glow through the grill; the case is well ventilated and it fit nicely on the 7" second shelf of my rack.  The tubes do warm up but heat is not a problem given a couple inches of clearance above the case.  I don't think the unit I had was fitted with the new optic volume control so I can't comment about that.  The installed volume control was very smooth, I assume it was a potentiometer.  I heard the LL2 (solid state) about a year ago and I think the addition of tubes adds a bit of smoothing and warmth which is needed for SR009's.  Another warming type upgrade, that may work wonders, would be the Audio Magic Super Premium fuse, (a step up from A/M's Super Fuse).  I was amazed when I tested the Super Fuse in my DAC.


----------



## Rossliew

gepardcv said:


> When I build my KGST, I'll post my take on this, since 207+252 is my only Stax setup right now (still gathering parts, waiting for a volume pot from Japan, need to order a transformer, haven't even started with casework — might take a while). Anyway, while demoing the 207, I thought it sounded slightly better from a 006t, a kind of richer and more involving sound than with the 252 (an impressive unit for its size, to be sure). I expect (and hope) that the KGST sounds better still.
> 
> FWIW, I also compared the 207 and 407 side-by-side from the 006t. Subtle differences at best, IMO.


 
 As i understand the KGST is very revealing of its source (as told to me by Spritzer). So, if your source is mostly lossy files, you will hear it as such. I know. I have a KGST and my music files are mostly mp3s up to 320kbps at best and they sound at best, average. Sad but true.


----------



## rgs9200m

Thank you very much Rico for taking the time for those nice observations. Best to you.
 Rich


----------



## Rico613

^ any time!


----------



## Jones Bob

headinclouds said:


> I tried the SR-507 with my KGST last evening.  They go together very well. I would like to try the less expensive phones such as -207 with the KGST to see how far this synergy can go..
> At a recent show I was impressed with the 207 and SRM 252.  A value package available in the UK for £745 with good support. It is not a valve amp though




I bought a pair of SR-207s to try first on my KGST. Made for a very enjoyable pairing.  

Have not tried the 307, 407, 507 or O2 to compare. 009 is quite a bit better.


----------



## NoPants

I recommend the KGST, very easy to build. Only sort of tricky part would be sourcing the JFETs, but even this is fairly tractable across diyaudio/ebay/linear systems. I booted mine up with -/+ 362V and everything is pretty stable.


----------



## MacedonianHero

wink said:


> Engineers designed and built the Titanic, and it went into liquidation.....
> 
> A layman built Noah's Ark, and it floated a company.


 
  
 Only difference is one of those boats was actually real.


----------



## Rossliew

jones bob said:


> I bought a pair of SR-207s to try first on my KGST. Made for a very enjoyable pairing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Can you share some brief impressions on the 207/KKGST pairing? Do you find them lean sounding? Somehow, i dont really dig my ESP950/KGST combo..it is very lean sounding to my ears..


----------



## Jones Bob

rossliew said:


> Can you share some brief impressions on the 207/KKGST pairing? Do you find them lean sounding? Somehow, i dont really dig my ESP950/KGST combo..it is very lean sounding to my ears..




To my ear the SR-207/KGST combo is very rich and robust sounding. A bit forward sounding. I'm using a Schitt Gungnir as a DAC and balanced copper ICs. I enjoyed it very much coming from my LCD-3F.

Edit: Listening to the SR-207 right now. Lovely midrange. Bass slightly tubby and missing the bottom octave. Slightly sharp/strident in the lower treble, but otherwise nicely proportioned and controlled upper frequencies. Flat soundstage. Very listenable but colored. Overall a great bargain I original bought for $350 from Elusive Disc.


----------



## wink

> Only difference is one of those boats was actually real.


 
 Why, because an engineer didn't design the supposedly fictional one?


----------



## MacedonianHero

wink said:


> Why, because an engineer didn't design the supposedly fictional one?




It was bit of a joke. 

In other news, while my SR-007s are more affected by a change in amplification, I gotta say that my SR-009s are more revealing of DAC/source changes. Case in point, the differences between my new Metrum Hex and Bryston BDA-2 are more apparent with the SR.-009s.


----------



## Failed Engineer

macedonianhero said:


> It was bit of a joke.
> 
> In other news, while my SR-007s are more affected by a change in amplification, I gotta say that my SR-009s are more revealing of DAC/source changes. Case in point, the differences between my new Metrum Hex and Bryston BDA-2 are more apparent with the SR.-009s.


 
  
 Interesting.  My SR-009 is inbound so I'll be able to check out the differences between my Anedio and the Hex.  The Hex is clearly better but honestly not triple the price better than the Anedio, so I was thinking of getting rid of it.  Maybe the 009 will change my mind.


----------



## Rossliew

jones bob said:


> To my ear the SR-207/KGST combo is very rich and robust sounding. A bit forward sounding. I'm using a Schitt Gungnir as a DAC and balanced copper ICs. I enjoyed it very much coming from my LCD-3F.
> 
> Edit: Listening to the SR-207 right now. Lovely midrange. Bass slightly tubby and missing the bottom octave. Slightly sharp/strident in the lower treble, but otherwise nicely proportioned and controlled upper frequencies. Flat soundstage. Very listenable but colored. Overall a great bargain I original bought for $350 from Elusive Disc.


 
 Thanks for the impressions..perhaps the KGST pairs better with Stax headphones rather than other e-stats..


----------



## Jones Bob

rossliew said:


> Thanks for the impressions..perhaps the KGST pairs better with Stax headphones rather than other e-stats..




Sorry couldn't help you more. I don't have experience with other 'stats. I was a Stax virgin until recently. Guess I might be in the honeymoon stage now, but I really like what the KGST does with Stax.


----------



## walakalulu

cucera said:


> I heard some rumors. The Stax Mafia confirmed on the other Site.
> 
> Now I found some measurements on Tylls site that look to me like a prove of that claim.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I've ordered 009's to be delivered this month. Given I based my decision on a demo pair over a year old, will I be getting a set of cans that sound different?


----------



## Super Pang

How warm do Stax amps/energisers get? I assume the SRM-OO6tS wouldn't be suitable to place on a rack because of the valves.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Class A is the deal. SS amps get very hot too.

 Ali


----------



## cucera

walakalulu said:


> I've ordered 009's to be delivered this month. Given I based my decision on a demo pair over a year old, will I be getting a set of cans that sound different?




 Well if you followed the discussion there is no way to determin when Stax made the change, that the rumors are telling. Even if, The difference will be subtile in the highs and will liklzy only be noticed be experts who know the headphone well. So don't worry no chance you will end up with a completely different dark can


----------



## MacedonianHero

failed engineer said:


> Interesting.  My SR-009 is inbound so I'll be able to check out the differences between my Anedio and the Hex.  The Hex is clearly better but honestly not triple the price better than the Anedio, so I was thinking of getting rid of it.  Maybe the 009 will change my mind.


 
  
 I think you will end up missing the Hex in the long run. I sold my BDA-2 pretty quickly after hearing the Hex for a few days...there was no going back.


----------



## astrostar59

macedonianhero said:


> I think you will end up missing the Hex in the long run. I sold my BDA-2 pretty quickly after hearing the Hex for a few days...there was no going back.


 
 I agree. The source is as important as the headphones when you get to this level. IMO the reason the HEX sounds so good is the No Oversampling architecture of it, plus the parts qualities in the PS and output boards. I gave up on the over sampling BS a few years ago, it makes the sound so synthetic and plastic. NOS DACs get closer to the source IMO.
  
 The Audio Note DACs are also amazing NOS types, plus they have tubes, which I think gets them to an even higher level.


----------



## richard51

dear "connoisseurs" of Stax,i had 2 questions: the first  what is your impressions of the_ Lambda nova basic _headphone and of the amp SRM-Xh ? what is a right pricing for that compared to the new basic stax system and what is the difference in sound between the two ....  i had also the occasion to purchase the _stax sr 5 _, and i want to know if some of you liked it really and what is the amp that you recommended with it?


----------



## Tachikoma

I like the SR-5   which isn't picky as far as amplification goes, as long as it has a normal bias port.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

SR-5 is a lovey "all-for-the-mids" pair of cans. My first Stax ever, BTW, listened to them in 1979 at first.
 Just got my hand on SR-Gamma pro pair : extension, kick, details...love them ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Ali


----------



## marcoarment

In case anyone's interested — I know it's been months since I posted in this thread — I decided to leave the electrostatic world and sell my SR-009 and KGSSHV. Good deal if you're looking for a cheap(er) way into that setup.
  
 Thanks for all of the help and advice earlier this year.


----------



## paradoxper

How that didn't sell at the meet. NY's bunch of cheapos.


----------



## marcoarment

paradoxper said:


> How that didn't sell at the meet. NY's bunch of cheapos.


 

 Yeah, I was really hoping not to have to ship them. Oh well. Everyone seemed to think my prices were great, but nobody had the money for it right now. (Can't really blame them.)


----------



## jhellow

golfnutz said:


> In the BHSE thread, I noticed JHellow saying how much he liked the KT77's in his amp, and doubt there would be a need for another set of tubes (page 164).
> 
> Then I noticed he also posted something asking if Justin was able to find out what's wrong with his amp (page 392).
> 
> I wonder if there's any coincidence to this?


 

 Unclear what the cause of the fault was.  I had gone back to the Big Bottle GE 6CA7s to listen to differences.  Shortly thereafter, the right warm up light would not come on and output became non-existent.  I waited for Justin to open a spot in his schedule and shipped the amp out.  He never really could trace the problem and this week ended up replacing the main board.  I should have the amp back in a week or so.  Ended up upgrading to the RK50 from the DACT as those were on the boards he had available.  So we'll see, but per Justin's request I won't be reinstalling the KT77s although they measure perfectly.  Perhaps real KT77s push the BHSE a bit to hard.  But not worth taking the chance.  The original GE 6CA7s test fine as well.
  
 I went with the DACT originally because it seemed the cleaner signal path.  But I never did like the attenuation characteristic and almost always listened at the 6-7 PM position.  
  
 Justin went above and beyond on this folks so no would should worry about support.  It may take a while, but with Justin its always first rate construction and service.
  
 Now shopping for tubes.  Suggestions welcome.  Thinking about the Pavane 6CA7TIIs.  Read that the Pavane EL34sPHs have reliability issues.  I also have a pair of original EL34 XF 2s single getter and may try to find a similar pair to use with them.


----------



## mulveling

If you're concerned about tube reliability I wouldn't consider Chinese power tubes -- even the "good" ones. The Great Britain Mullards or Holland Amperex/Philips, even used when screened by a trusty tube dealer, are amazingly reliable and long-lived and sound awesome.


----------



## Golfnutz

My understanding is there's very little difference between the single and double XF2 getter's. Some claim the OO have a bit better bass, but I haven't heard the single O's to compare. I have a feeling you'd have a hard time telling the two apart. I agree with the above post, the NOS tubes are really the way to go (or good used NOS). My EL34PH's lasted 2500 hours before they died. By comparison that would be 4 quads of them to equal the 10,000 hour rating for NOS as some people claim they're capable of. If you do the math, the NOS should be cheaper in the long run (obviously there's no guarantee you'll get 10,000 hours). NOS tubes sound better than the newer made tubes as well (IMO).


----------



## georgep

jhellow said:


> Unclear what the cause of the fault was.  I had gone back to the Big Bottle GE 6CA7s to listen to differences.  Shortly thereafter, the right warm up light would not come on and output became non-existent.  I waited for Justin to open a spot in his schedule and shipped the amp out.  He never really could trace the problem and this week ended up replacing the main board.  I should have the amp back in a week or so.  Ended up upgrading to the RK50 from the DACT as those were on the boards he had available.  So we'll see, but per Justin's request I won't be reinstalling the KT77s although they measure perfectly.  Perhaps real KT77s push the BHSE a bit to hard.  But not worth taking the chance.  The original GE 6CA7s test fine as well.
> 
> I went with the DACT originally because it seemed the cleaner signal path.  But I never did like the attenuation characteristic and almost always listened at the 6-7 PM position.
> 
> ...




Measuring perfectly on a tube tester doesn't mean they didn't ruin your bhse. From what I have read kt77 are not identical to the el34 spec-wise, and second that you act at your own peril when you drop in Chinese or Russian made kt77s. Stick with what is spec'd and you should be fine. Go ahead and try the older el34s, but don't stray from the spec. Even some 6ca7 have a different internal structure to a true el34.


----------



## jhellow

These are not Russian or Chinese copies of KT77s. They are the real deal.  But I am not taking a chance.  Justin seems fine with 6CA7s.  But I am going to end up with some original EL-34 XF2s if I can find a good quad.


----------



## georgep

Sure but "real deal" kt77 are still not identical to el34.


----------



## jhellow

I get that.  But in the old days,  Marantz Model 9s and 8bs, in every instance where I have used vintage KT77s instead of EL-34s the improvements were consistent and the choice of tube never an issue.  There are numerous articles from the period that indicate they are drop in replacements.  But you are right, there are differences.  In the case of my BHSE, Justin was not able to identify a tube related issue and never could specifically identify the fault, even after months of looking.  So we don't know what caused the problem, but I am certainly not going to take a chance with it.


----------



## georgep

Yeah, there are a lot of drop in replacements that still have different voltage attributes. The thing with the bhse is that it wasn't designed for tube rolling - people should just be aware of the risks.


----------



## NoPants

The configuration of the BHSE output stage is more temperamental than in the standard transformer-coupled power amplifier.


----------



## jackskelly

failed engineer said:


> Interesting.  My SR-009 is inbound so I'll be able to check out the differences between my Anedio and the Hex.  The Hex is clearly better but honestly not triple the price better than the Anedio, so I was thinking of getting rid of it.  Maybe the 009 will change my mind.


 
  
 The SR-009 will almost certainly change your mind; The detail retrieval is too good to be true.


----------



## richard51

hello stax friends, i wil buy a stax amp srm-xh this week and i want to know what will be the best solution for a power supply....what kind of power supply will be the best for the sound?


----------



## kevin gilmore

a 12V car battery


----------



## Lan647

Gotta say, after listening to the O2s (mk1 and modified mk2) for a few hours in a home environment, they are STUNNING. Certainly better than the SR-009 to my ears. Needs to be driven with authority though. What a sound... refined... natural... powerful... musical.....


----------



## eric65

lan647 said:


> Gotta say, after listening to the O2s (mk1 and modified mk2) for a few hours in a home environment, they are STUNNING. Certainly better than the SR-009 to my ears. Needs to be driven with authority though. What a sound... refined... natural... powerful... musical.....


 
  
 Hello,
  
 Which of these two headphones Stax is the fairest (faithful) in terms of truthfulness (trueness) of tone (timbre) of a musical instrument, the Piano : Stax SR-007 mk1 or SR-009 ?.

  Not both together; this is not possible.


----------



## kothganesh

eric65 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Which of these two headphones Stax is the fairest (faithful) in terms of truthfulness (trueness) of tone (timbre) of a musical instrument, the Piano : Stax SR-007 mk1 or SR-009 ?.
> 
> Not both together; this is not possible.


 

 IMO SR 009...I have the 007 mk1 as well.... Although the decay in the 007 will probably give more of a visceral feel


----------



## Rossliew

kothganesh said:


> IMO SR 009...I have the 007 mk1 as well.... Although the decay in the 007 will probably give more of a visceral feel




Ganesh, have you had any problems with your O07's cable connection at the ear cups?


----------



## Lan647

eric65 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Which of these two headphones Stax is the fairest (faithful) in terms of truthfulness (trueness) of tone (timbre) of a musical instrument, the Piano : Stax SR-007 mk1 or SR-009 ?.
> 
> Not both together; this is not possible.


 

 The SR-007 mk1 is better at everything in my opinion


----------



## Hun7er

lan647 said:


> The SR-007 mk1 is better at everything in my opinion


 
  
 I think too. Try an Sigma Pro/404 with an good amp and it will even better than SR007MKI.


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> Ganesh, have you had any problems with your O07's cable connection at the ear cups?


 

 No..


----------



## zolkis

eric65 said:


> Which of these two headphones Stax is the fairest (faithful) in terms of truthfulness (trueness) of tone (timbre) of a musical instrument, the Piano : Stax SR-007 mk1 or SR-009 ?.
> Not both together; this is not possible.


 
  
 For piano, in stock form, likely the 009... However, with many instruments (wind, cello, double bass, etc) the 007 Mk1 IMO sounds more realistic or more natural already in stock form. With a slightly more shallow pad in the back part, and with slightly bigger opening, I am not sure if it's not actually better overall than the 009, since with shallower pads it sounds more open, with slightly more elevated treble and more perceived resolution, but I could not directly compare them yet. I have modified a 007 pad for this, but in 2-3 days time I can report on how does the 007 sound with a 009 pad (which I consider the best). I know that the larger opening changes the loading of the driver, but it does sound more open, without losing bass.
  
 But overall the 009 should be still better if you're compatible with its treble (and I think it has very good bass). I was deeply impressed with it, it provides more than the sum of parts.


----------



## Lan647

I think there is a lack of organic quality to the music using the 009, compared to the 007.


----------



## schorsch

Hello ,
 I'm still looking for someone to transfer one of my Sigmas into a Sigma 404.
 Can you give me a hint?
  
 Regards Georg


----------



## Hun7er

Hello,
  
 You can try to contact Julez. He lives in Germany.
 BTW you have 2 Sigma Pro ?


----------



## schorsch

Thanks for that hint.
I have 3 Sigmas
One modified normal to pro
One Pro 
One reworked pro I got in ebay with too much Wadding and modified cable

Regards Georg


----------



## Hun7er

Did you sell of them ?
  
 Regards


----------



## richard51

I have caught the stax virus..... No remedy for that! And worse i dont want to heal....He 400 hifiman
  
 very well drive by the Ember amp are no match for the basic stax system lambda nova basic... I use the Ember pre amp function with the Smr-xh amp and its very good...


----------



## richard51

kevin gilmore said:


> a 12V car battery


 

 what do i need except the battery : cable etc.... Adaptor of what kind? in one word what do i need to know for that, i am not a stax scientist nor very informed about amp headphones etc....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thanks for your time.......


----------



## negura

Quote:

  
 More or less discordant with some of my former impressions, one of the most important factors in reproducing a natural timbre/tonality of the instrument is the source. There were times where I felt the SR-007s were closer to the natural sound of a violin or piano. With the Theta Gen V, the SR-009 are damn impressive realistic. More so than the SR-007s.


----------



## zolkis

negura said:


> More or less discordant with some of my former impressions, one of the most important factors in reproducing a natural timbre/tonality of the instrument is the source.


 
  
 You agree on that with Ivor Tiefenbrum of Linn and I also subscribe  But is the Theta Gen V an absolute source? People could argue, and cite good sources "for" the 007 too. The question really comes down to everyone's most reasonable context, which is both subjective and cost sensitive. Given a "reasonable setup", I think most people would say the 009 reproduces piano better, with a considerable amount still preferring the 007, but I would bluntly say that neither of them is really that good as their hype would suggest. We just happen to have this choice at this point of time, but when new stats will come to strike a better compromise for our personal context, we will treat both the 009 and 007 closer to reality. And I don't think we'll soon get to the point we won't assemble our "dream" headphone from 2-3 other headphones, e.g. the bass of Audeze, the mids of Stax Omega and the treble of R10 - pick your own choices.
  
 Back to the choice we have now, the question for me is similar to whether preferring higher lens resolution with some color fringing and coldish color balance to a tiny bit less resolution but more coherent lines with a slight sepia color shift. Or look elsewhere? Moving back to audio domain, our brain tries to correct both kinds of distortion, the slight treble haze of the 009, and the dark caramel sweetness of the 007. I think my brain corrects more easily the 007, at least for me, and with a wider range of sources, so that gets the gap somewhat narrower, but still leaving the dilemma of hard choice. The 007 Mk1 was good enough to convey a sense of realism that touched me the same way as the 009, it's twice cheaper, and I could further close the gap by making my own "voiced" ear pads. So far, so good. If the 009 costed $2K (used), that would be closer to the comparative reality, but for now I will agree the 009 is the better one in piano reproduction, at least it strikes a faster satisfaction curve, i.e. you like it more at the first hearing... But then you get unsure about it when you spend 3 weeks with them because the 007 grows on you. Funny thing, this high end audio: most of it is about our brain, which fools/satisfies us in different ways over time.


----------



## negura

I would not disagree that on a lot of nowadays sources, the SR-007s can sound more realistic. Hence, but not limited to, I own both headphones.
 I am comparatively quite disappointed by some of those same sources on my speaker setup.
  
 In particular it is the treble haze point where I agree with you. But I don't think it's a trait of the 009s, but more to do with the sources. Yet, yes the SR-009s are more resolute.


----------



## arnaud

negura said:


> I would not disagree that on a lot of nowadays sources, the SR-007s can sound more realistic. Hence, but not limited to, I own both headphones.
> I am comparatively quite disappointed by some of those same sources on my speaker setup.
> 
> In particular it is the treble haze point where I agree with you. But I don't think it's a trait of the 009s, but more to do with the sources. Yet, yes the SR-009s are more resolute.


 

 This. Especially the treble haze comment, that gets me pointing toward the source immediately.
  
 007 is much more accommodating with regards to source and material sub-par quality, but requires serious amplification.
  
 SR009 is driven more easily but can sound shrill if you don't pay attention the rest of the upstream gear (and to amplification to a lower extent imo). 
  
 Having both the 007 and 009, there's no question which one is more resolved, and it's not a question of treble forwardness as some want to the paint the 009 like.
  
 Listening to acoustic instruments / classical, 009 is my choice any day of the week, we'll see if the BHSE can reverse that trend...
  
 Arnaud


----------



## Rico613

Every time I make a major upgrade to the system it seems the most immediate audible difference is in treble frequencies.  Maybe because the shorter wave lengths are no longer overlapping and blurred, but rather becoming more precise thus sounding louder - what we call brightness.  I think the 009's follow this pattern.  They sound bright but they also sound clearer, more distinct, with better separation in the mid-range and bass as well.  imho . . .


----------



## vortrex

Are the 507's a MUCH better match with the 323s compared to the SR-007 Mk.1's?  I have the 007/323s combo now, and while it is my first headphone rig, it is kind of lackluster.  Judging by the volume control it seems to be under powered.  Could I "downgrade" to the 507's at a much cheaper price and possibly increase the performance due to better amp matching?


----------



## zolkis

Vortrex, that depends on your perception of music, so you need to try that one out yourself. I would choose the 007, but I would understand why people would prefer the 507. Better spend the money on better amp, it's safer path to the future.


----------



## cucera

vortrex said:


> Are the 507's a MUCH better match with the 323s compared to the SR-007 Mk.1's?  I have the 007/323s combo now, and while it is my first headphone rig, it is kind of lackluster.  Judging by the volume control it seems to be under powered.  Could I "downgrade" to the 507's at a much cheaper price and possibly increase the performance due to better amp matching?




Only if you like the more "modern" sound of the 507 (slightly boomy and zzzingly treble). Otherwise the 007 mk1 is king, but maybe you need to have owned more cans to appreciate it fully. Did you adjust the fit? That makes a huge difference with the O2.


----------



## zolkis

Arnaud, once you have both the 007 and 009, it's hard to argue. my point was that short term comparisons will always prefer the 009 since the brain takes longer time to adapt to the 007 (but once done, it's a new magic), so for me it's no wonder you prefer the 009. But spend 3 weeks with the 007 and bhse only and tell yourself what are you missing. Then 3 weeks only with the 009 and tell the final verdict .

I agree on the source point, but let's be honest, a tendency is a property in a practical context. I am one of those the treble haze (an overstatement per se) doesn't bother, and I agree it's remedied by source selection, but IMO it would be an overstatement as well to say the problem lies completely at the source.

I think we all agree the 009 has better potential, but needs a source more expensive than itself, and an amp of similar quality as the 007 needs anyway. The 007 needs special amps for its own limitations, but you can use a wider source range, ending up with third to quarter of total system cost, providing similar level of musical enjoyment if your brain adapts to it (at least by my theory, which may prove false).


----------



## cucera

With my BHSE I clearly prefer te 007MK1 to the 009 even though the new flagship will allways win on first comparison. But It is because of the suboptimal Tracks that I like to listen, when the music is great but the recording quality poor the older model is the winner overall. If I would just listen to audiophile music I reverse my choice. But keeping both seems waste to me even though that would be the kings choice.


----------



## arnaud

@zolkis and @cucera, time will tell as I am yet to hear the 007 at its full potential. I don't doubt it sounds good out of the BHSE given the number of people that prefer that combo to the sr009. 
You're also probably right the 007 is a more cost effective plan when considering the quality of upstream gear. 
In the end, it's pretty difficult to have a phone for all music genres and moods so I still think both phones are complementary rather than waste keeping both.
Cheers, arnaud


----------



## zolkis

Arnaud, actually I am very interested in your long term experience, since you have both, and will be able to spend long enough time with both. I occasionally have the opportunity to listen to a 009, so much of my opinion is based on long term tests with the 007 but only short tests with the 009. To be fair, a lot of people prefer the 009 with does not matter what amp. For those of us who don't have the means to test long enough, these opinions are very helpful.


----------



## preproman

Are there any 007 / Electra rigs out there?  How does that rig compare to the BHSE / 007?


----------



## negura

zolkis said:


>


 
  
 Due to being busy/lazy I sometimes just get on with whichever headphone is connected and at hand. On the 14mA/450V offboard KGSSHV I always prefer the SR-009 with both short and long term listening. I would also think the amp is more than capable driving the SR-007s.
  
 The time it takes to "adapt" to the SR-007 is in my opinion because it's that much less transparent and more colored sounding. The latter of which may be very pleasing, but it's an artifact. There isn't any time needed to "adapt" back to the SR-009s. That's always the case in my experience when switching to more colored/less transparent headphones.
  
 Outside this, both headphones are highly transparent to downstream gear. So any system choices/matches would have direct impact.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

@ Arnaud
You are part-responsible for my BHSE order, please don't push the SR-007 mk1 too much...it would hurt my wallet again 

Ali


----------



## eric65

Hello,
  
 My appreciation of the SR-009 versus SR-007mk2 (on the combo RKV-Verto, better than the SRM 727 amp) for the reproductive of the Piano timbre (tone) (Nb: my mother is a pianist and plays 1-2 hours per day on a piano Bösendorfer 200)
  
 Well with the 009, the restitution of the timbre (tone) of a Steinway or a Bösendorfer is credible (relatively realistic) ; with the 007mk2, I do not recognize the sound of these two pianos, as if the sound was muted (with a certain lack of clarity); the 007mk2 sounds like a pretty dull piano, that does not exist yet commercially for the prestigious pianos.


----------



## zolkis

negura said:


> On the 14mA/450V offboard KGSSHV I always prefer the SR-009 with both short and long term listening. I would also think the amp is more than capable driving the SR-007s.


 
  
 Thanks, this is useful. I have also heard the same comment from another head-fier, so there is a preference pattern this way, too. BTW both of you were using the KGSSHV. That's probably my choice for the 009 as well, but the 007 may be better with the BHSE, so still waiting for Arnaud's verdict too .
  
 I also agree with the comment of longer adaptation is needed with the 007 because it's darker. However, the 007 can be made sound more open, by the means of ear pad mods, and that bit changes a lot. However, until these mods are non-standard, this is not widely helpful. Tomorrow hopefully I will get my 009 pads which I expect improving the sound of 007 in similar way my own pads do. It likely won't become a 009, but let's see how far it goes. If it's a dead end, I will post that too.


----------



## TheAttorney

Interesting how we've had a whole spate of posts saying they prefer the 007s over the 009s. Made me smile in a wry sort of way.
  
 I've held onto my 007s (now with BHSE) for years since the 009s were announced - primarily because of my aversion to over bright recordings.
 I don't go in for different headphones for different occasions. I want one headphone for all occasions.
  
 A few weeks ago I succumbed and a booked an entire half day at highendheadphones' showroom where I was was able to compare the two at my leisure with my BHSE and the shop's pretty decent Bryston CDP and DAC. Apart from the fact I still prefer the 007's overall tonal balance (Dark has always been the new Black for me), I felt the 009s won on every single other parameter I could think of. And that included some difficult tracks (eg close miked female vocals bordering on sibilance) that I thought might trouble the 009s.
  
 So I've ordered the 009s, to be delivered next month. Time will tell if the 3-week rule mentioned above will apply to me. As has already been mentioned, a lot depends on source synergy and IMO just about every cable and tweaky thingy in between.
  
 Incidentally, while I had all the high end dynamic headphones at my disposal, at the end of the Stax comparison I did a quick round robin try of Abyss, LCD3. HE6, HD800 and new kid that sounds something like Obravo. All driven by the McIntosh headamp and an unidentified CDP. It was only a quick check for fun, but none of these other headphones caused me to question my long term electrostatic choice. Of these, the Abyss came closest to challenging the BHSE/009s on SQ, but I'd never buy something that looks like a medieval instrument of torture. The Obravos were very disappointing in this company


----------



## zolkis

theattorney said:


> the Abyss came closest to challenging the BHSE/009s on SQ


 
  
 Can you tell more about this? Abyss-bass vs Stax-tux?


----------



## negura

theattorney said:


>


 
  
 Did the dealer try to accommodate fitting the Abyss for you? When I heard them I had to keep the headphones pressed to my head to get any proper seal.


----------



## TheAttorney

I often read posts that the 009s are bass-_light._ On the evidence of my comparison session, I'd say that the 009s are bass-_right_, in that every other headphone I tried after, including the Abyss, sounded slightly bass-_obvious_, with varying degrees of bass bloat/boom.
 So although I'd still prefer the 009s to slightly tilt the bass upwards (and treble slightly downwards), what bass they did produce was unparalleled in terms of transparency, texture and timbre.
  
 Although I didn't think the Abyss had quite the same level of openness and transparency as the 009s (at any frequency), the Abyss did sound very good indeed (especially rock music). The bass was a touch bloated, but I'm sure that could have been improved with a better fit. The Abyss were a loose fit on my head. After a few seconds looking at the design, I couldn't work out how to adjust them closer. The whole structure is completely rigid and I couldn't be bothered to find the instructions manual or ask the showroom owner (who was busy listening to my BHSE at the time).
  
 So I'm sure that the Abyss could be better still with appropriate adjustment and synergy. But that wasn't the point of my visit. Had my jaw dropped to the floor then I may have investigated further, but as it was I saw no compelling reason to make the huge investment to jump ship to the dynamics world. My trusty HD600s remain just fine as a back-up headphone for occasional non-critical listening.


----------



## AnakChan

preproman said:


> Are there any 007 / Electra rigs out there?  How does that rig compare to the BHSE / 007?


 
  
 When Arnaud receives his BHSE, I hope to compare my Electra (XF2 tubes with EH & Tung Sol 6SN7s). with his. And we both have slightly different 007Mk1's too (his are brown pads, mine are black).


----------



## vortrex

zolkis said:


> Vortrex, that depends on your perception of music, so you need to try that one out yourself. I would choose the 007, but I would understand why people would prefer the 507. Better spend the money on better amp, it's safer path to the future.


 
  
 In general I understand the 007 is better than the 507, but I was really only concerned about that pair with the 323s.  It seems the 007's need a lot more power, which the 323s cannot provide.  I am at half volume and it really isn't that loud.  Bass control seems pretty bad with the 007/323s combo.  I am guessing the 507's are much more efficient and therefore could perform better with the 323s?


----------



## Rossliew

Can anyone advise if the 007 Mk II would be a good e-stat can for metal? I have a KGST to pair with if that is of any help. Many have said the Mk I is superior in sound but I've also heard reliability issues with the cable connection at the ear cups so I don't want to spend a huge amount of money only for parts to fail several weeks/months down the road. Any advice/feedback is much appreciated!


----------



## Rico613

I recently compared an excellent Cavalli 2T electrostatic amp with 009's to my dynamic setup, (LCD-3s / Eddie Current 445 with EML mesh plate tubes).  The electrostatics sounded very clear, more detailed, and more spacious, but not as dramatic and "emotional" as the dynamic setup.  So I'm curious is anyone has the impression that the SR009 or electrostatics in general are somewhat flat in overall response?  Maybe the difference is in the mesh tubes which are known drama queens!


----------



## zolkis

vortrex said:


> In general I understand the 007 is better than the 507, but I was really only concerned about that pair with the 323s.  It seems the 007's need a lot more power, which the 323s cannot provide.  I am at half volume and it really isn't that loud.  Bass control seems pretty bad with the 007/323s combo.  I am guessing the 507's are much more efficient and therefore could perform better with the 323s?


 
  
 I may be minority here, but when I had both the 507 and the 007 Mk1 and the 323S, and I tried them many times, I preferred the 007 even if it wasn't the best amp match. However, somebody else may prefer the 507 because it's:
 - much more open sounding
 - more efficient/loud on the 323S
 - big, deep bass with somewhat bigger slam on the 323S than the 007, though the 007 went deeper and had more of a midbass emphasis vs the 507's lower bass emphasis
 - midrange of 007 was calmer and better to my ears, but the 507 was much more clear sounding
 - treble was smoother on the 007, but subdued; the 507 was more clear.
 - 007 sound stage was wider, the 507 was higher, both with good depth.
 Sounds funny, but I thought the 507 has too much treble, mids and bass... how come? it's somehow the texture of the music flows more natural with the 007.
  
 The 507 bears most resemblance to the HD800, with more fluid midrange, better treble and bigger bass, vs the Senn's bigger sound stage and more neutral/accurate sound. Or an AKG812, with better mids and losing on the rest.
  
 The 007 is more like a Stax version of Fostex TH900/ Denon 7000 sound, with less deep bass and otherwise better everything. It comes down to personal preference which tonality one likes more.
  
 If you are bothered by the dark creamy caramel sound of the 007 after a longer period of accomodation, it's not for you. For making it sound more open, you can alternatively try other ear pads, and set the head band wider and bend the drivers inwards a bit, but not too loose, and pressure should be equal around the ears.
  
 When you go up to the 009, it's similar open tonality of the 507/HD800, only with larger sound stage, higher musical resolution, smoother sound, and better, deeper bass as well (this last bit is contradicting a few others' experience). Also, more sensitive, which may be misleading during A/B comparisons.


----------



## negura

theattorney said:


> I often read posts that the 009s are bass-_light._ On the evidence of my comparison session, I'd say that the 009s are bass-_right_, in that every other headphone I tried after, including the Abyss, sounded slightly bass-_obvious_, with varying degrees of bass bloat/boom.
> So although I'd still prefer the 009s to slightly tilt the bass upwards (and treble slightly downwards), what bass they did produce was unparalleled in terms of transparency, texture and timbre.


 
  
 On the KGSSHV, I certainly don't think the SR-009s are bass light. In fact I am impressed by the bass attack and quality, all while staying very neutral in the bass region. With the KGSSHV/Theta, I prefer the SR-009 treble response just as it is - I think it's spot on. Even with bright recordings. With the PWD2 newer firmwares - I could do with a bit less, but I have a good idea about the culprit here. 
  
 Regarding the Abyss... I fully agree regarding the awkwardness of the fitting mechanism. However I am not convinced that the McIntosh amplifier is in the BHSE (or KGSSHV) league. I actually slightly preferred the Abyss on the Bryston amplifier which seemed to give a more neutral/correct response. I would see them as a good complement to the 009s for anyone who doesn't have to worry about funds.


----------



## vortrex

Zolkis - That is great info, thanks a lot for posting all of that!  I am going to try and 507's and see what happens.  My 323s is also brand new.  Maybe that needs some break in time?  This setup is really only for secondary listening, as I am an analog with speakers type of guy.  Just looking for something on those occasions where I cannot use the main system.


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## preproman

anakchan said:


> When Arnaud receives his BHSE, I hope to compare my Electra (XF2 tubes with EH & Tung Sol 6SN7s). with his. And we both have slightly different 007Mk1's too (his are brown pads, mine are black).


 
  
 Looking forward to hearing impressions from that mini meet.


----------



## preproman

rico613 said:


> I recently compared an excellent Cavalli 2T electrostatic amp with 009's to my dynamic setup, (LCD-3s / Eddie Current 445 with EML mesh plate tubes).  The electrostatics sounded very clear, more detailed, and more spacious, but not as dramatic and "emotional" as the dynamic setup.  So I'm curious is anyone has the impression that the SR009 or electrostatics in general are somewhat flat in overall response?  Maybe the difference is in the mesh tubes which are known drama queens!


 
  
 So the 445 has enough juice for the LCD-3s?  I was thinking they would be better with a SS amp a la Ragg..


----------



## negura

rico613 said:


> I recently compared an excellent Cavalli 2T electrostatic amp with 009's to my dynamic setup, (LCD-3s / Eddie Current 445 with EML mesh plate tubes).  The electrostatics sounded very clear, more detailed, and more spacious, but not as dramatic and "emotional" as the dynamic setup.  So I'm curious is anyone has the impression that the SR009 or electrostatics in general are somewhat flat in overall response?  Maybe the difference is in the mesh tubes which are known drama queens!


 
  
 How do you define "dramatic" and "emotional"?


----------



## Lan647

theattorney said:


> Interesting how we've had a whole spate of posts saying they prefer the 007s over the 009s. Made me smile in a wry sort of way.
> 
> I've held onto my 007s (now with BHSE) for years since the 009s were announced - primarily because of my aversion to over bright recordings.
> I don't go in for different headphones for different occasions. I want one headphone for all occasions.
> ...


 

 I listened to the Abyss and found it mediocre. Nice bass and huge, open staging but the treble was way off. Also, the fit was among the worst I've ever experienced. The company should be ashamed of that headphone.


----------



## Nitori

negura said:


> On the KGSSHV, I certainly don't think the SR-009s are bass light. In fact I am impressed by the bass attack and quality, all while staying very neutral in the bass region. With the KGSSHV/Theta, I prefer the SR-009 treble response just as it is - I think it's spot on. Even with bright recordings. With the PWD2 newer firmwares - I could do with a bit less, but I have a good idea about the culprit here.


 
 Agreed.....sr009's bass on the KGSSHV is phenomenal....


----------



## Rico613

preproman said:


> So the 445 has enough juice for the LCD-3s?  I was thinking they would be better with a SS amp a la Ragg..


 
  
 It turns out the LCD-3 is relatively easy to drive and sounds fabulous with either the EC Balancing Act or EC 445.  The 445 was designed to drive speakers or headphones and is supposed to be especially good with HD800s which are difficult to drive.  
  


negura said:


> How do you define "dramatic" and "emotional"?


 
 Yea . . . I wish I knew how to describe it.  It seems to be a kind of acceleration of tone or volume as if the musician were putting more emphasis and  drama into the performance.  Of course the recording is the same, it just sounds more dramatic and interesting on the dynamic setup.  Maybe that kind of sound comes from all tube amps like Eddie Current or as I said maybe with the EML Mesh Plate tubes.  I'm just wondering if others have noticed that difference with stats vs. dynamics.


----------



## Taistelu-Jaska

First time poster in the mighty Stax-thread so please be gentle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
 How does the older SRS 4040-II system compare to the newer SRS-4170 system? Is the older system still a viable option in the ~500€ range?


----------



## cucera

taistelu-jaska said:


> First time poster in the mighty Stax-thread so please be gentle  .
> How does the older SRS 4040-II system compare to the newer SRS-4170 system? Is the older system still a viable option in the ~500€ range?




I would prefer the old one and 500€ for Amp and Can? Take it right away, you can sell it anytime for that price.


----------



## levap

rossliew said:


> Can anyone advise if the 007 Mk II would be a good e-stat can for metal? I have a KGST to pair with if that is of any help. Many have said the Mk I is superior in sound but I've also heard reliability issues with the cable connection at the ear cups so I don't want to spend a huge amount of money only for parts to fail several weeks/months down the road. Any advice/feedback is much appreciated!


 
 Once again about 007 on metal )  Table wth marks on subgenres is here http://www.head-fi.org/t/715478/headphones-for-metal-music-ultimate-solution
  
*Stax 007MK2*
 On non-metal genres I listened 007 on WES, on a meatal - KGSS. Alas, on both amplifiers there was a feeling that 007 are under-amplified. On non-metal genres with WES such a feeling perhaps even makes the certain flavour, that a right for existence. KGSS plays fast and powerful metal better, than WES, but... Impression that 007 can play better, much better does not leave me.
  
 KGSS + 007 have well controlled, dense bass. Euphoric electrostatic air on  mids and highs is blown off a bit - welcome to solidstate amplification. Mids of 007 are a little more flat compared to 009. The soundstage is much less, than 009's scene. But, the most amusing - 007's minuses manage to turn to pluses on some genres. 
  
 Joy:
*Heavy Metal*: If 009 were made as lethal weapon for progressive rock, 007 MK2 were created as hard rock lethal weapon. Add some more of "meat", "brutality" and even reduced soundstage (in comparison with 009) - everything in 007 sound signature develops in pluses on a genre, realizing outstanding result.
*Doom*: Somewhat unexpected. Strangely enough, even on going to an overload (hello, Monolord) 007 don't give in neither on density nor on power. The pure mids gives special, fauvorable for Doom flavour.
*Sludge, Stoner*: Genre is a mix of Doom and Heavy metal and so are results.
*Alternative*: Well. The vocal fascinates in an ordinary electrostatic manner. PRAT drives. The bass slam is more than enough for the genre. Above than "an average excellent".
*Thrash*: If cans are magnificent on vigorous rock, is it the reason to give them top marks for every rock-ish genre? On Thrash - definitely. Energy whips, speed impresses, detail level id striking, but not straining.
  
 Grieve:
*Black, Death, Grindcore*: I listened 007 on Black for a long, I was thinking, I was looking for an answer on forum threads. What's the problem?, It seems like everything is accurate and balanced, technical abilities of 007 fit Black metal very well. But. Anyway. On Black, Death and Grindcore after couple of minutes of listening subconscious message doesn't allow to take full pleasure from music. A bass. Drums sound as if at peaks of signals sinusoidal tops are cut off plainly. Or in poles between "humps" of peaks of signals sand is filled up. Terribly unpleasant. The most probable reason for this - KGSS (not hv version) under-amplifies 007 MK2. At least on on fast extreme genres.
*Power*: No. Not enough of space for power-metal soul to take off. Too seriously it thumps, too heavy for a flight.
*Progressive, Symphonic*: Excessively heavy, especially on contrast with 009, there is no the wide and ringing emptiness, magical "nowhere" from which sounds of music appears. A closet - not a soundstage for Progressive and Symphonic metal.
*Goth*: Typically mediocre for vigorous cans. It is not a right time for and joyful run. It is better to sit and grieve in a cold of the night.
  
 With a regret I has to note that if 009 on nonmetallic genres unambiguously make absolutely indelible impression, 007 on metal don't make such radical impression. Certainly 007 are among top of the top headphones, but they're not top of the top of the top )) I had no time for adaptation to 007 sound signature, couple of weeks is not enough? Perhaps. Not my sound? Possibly. But feelings from 009 listening were like "Wow...", from 007 it was more loke "Hmm, somehow something isn't perfect, it seems like cans XXX play it better". And even thus that as a rule XXX played at the similar level, but in a different way, 007 were by default considered as catching up...
 Planning to try 007 later on more appropriate amplification.


----------



## MacedonianHero

zolkis said:


> Arnaud, once you have both the 007 and 009, it's hard to argue. my point was that short term comparisons will always prefer the 009 since the brain takes longer time to adapt to the 007 (but once done, it's a new magic), so for me it's no wonder you prefer the 009. But spend 3 weeks with the 007 and bhse only and tell yourself what are you missing. Then 3 weeks only with the 009 and tell the final verdict
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've had my SR-007 Mk1s for almost a year now and really love what they can do. They truly shine as some of the very best headphones I've heard. But in the end, the SR-009s are just a cut above to my ears. While I haven't heard the SR-007Mk1's on a BHSE (I own both the KGSSHV and LL2 and both sound truly excellent with both headphones), I have heard them on my friend's DIY T2.
  
 In the end though, the solution was quite simple....both.


----------



## Mahay

Hello everyone,
 Is it possible to add 1.4" jack to a stax amplifier so then one can compare a dynamic phone with electrostatic using the same amplifier. If yes, how do you mod your stax amplifier.
 Thanks in advance


----------



## kevin gilmore

mahay said:


> Hello everyone,
> Is it possible to add 1.4" jack to a stax amplifier so then one can compare a dynamic phone with electrostatic using the same amplifier. If yes, how do you mod your stax amplifier.
> Thanks in advance


 

 NO!


----------



## zolkis

macedonianhero said:


> I've had my SR-007 Mk1s for almost a year now and really love what they can do. They truly shine as some of the very best headphones I've heard. But in the end, the SR-009s are just a cut above to my ears. While I haven't heard the SR-007Mk1's on a BHSE (I own both the KGSSHV and LL2 and both sound truly excellent with both headphones), I have heard them on my friend's DIY T2.
> In the end though, the solution was quite simple....both.


 
  
 Thank you! Things are converging. I would be still interested to know that if all things made as equal as possible, how different is the 009 membrane from the 007.
  
 I would like to ask you and Arnaud, negura and others who have both the 007 Mk1 and 009, could you please try the 009 pads on the 007?
  
 For my part, I have ordered 009 replacement pads to try them on my 007 Mk1. I received them today, and spent a few hours with them. 
  
 For the record, I have many pads for the 007: the original brown one, the black Mk2, a modified original brown with bigger opening and a bit shallower. The latter sounded more open than the rest. Based on dimensions, I expected the 009 pad improving in the same way. And it does...
  
 The 009 pads are very easy to assemble on the 007. You don't need the spring any more (I tried with it as well but it sounds better without it), and for the duration of the experiment you can skip mounting the dust filter as well, so just put on the pads themselves, by aligning the edge of the mounting strip into the gap with a finger sliding through the perimeter from the inside opening. It took a few seconds for me. It fits very nicely on the 007, despite it's slightly bigger diameter than the 007 pads.
  
 The good news is that the bass is maintained, the sound is more open and clear, and treble is better too. There is no hint of darkness in its sound any more. I was trying to get this kind of sound out of the 007 with my own built pads, and I am glad the stock 009 pads are even better, because it gives opportunity for more people to verify it. If I want to find some critical points, there is perhaps a little bit more prominent midrange now, but still sounds good and natural to my ears. Obviously the driver is still the same, so the musical resolution limit is still there compared to the 009, but from my memory the difference is smaller now.
  
 At some point I may be able to compare directly with a 009, but if any of you is willing to take the burden of verifying this finding, it would be very helpful. Thanks!


----------



## arnaud

Interesting findings Zolkis!
  
 My 009 pads are starting to show their age as a matter of fact (the pad is compressing / getting a bit larger in diameter) so I was thinking to get replacement pads at some point.
  
 My 007k1 pads are brown ones, very stiff (I wonder if they're supposed to be like or the foam deteriorated with age / got stiffer?). So, trying the current 009 pads on it would seem like a good try (009 pads are so much more comfortable).
  
 The change in pads can be as if not even more drastic than the change in diaphragm so you're probably onto something here...
  
 cheers,
 arnaud


----------



## MacedonianHero

zolkis said:


> Thank you! Things are converging. I would be still interested to know that if all things made as equal as possible, how different is the 009 membrane from the 007.
> 
> I would like to ask you and Arnaud, negura and others who have both the 007 Mk1 and 009, could you please try the 009 pads on the 007?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The SR-007Mk1's sound very natural, fast and clean with a slight tendency to the darker side of neutral (when properly amped). When the amping is insufficient, they can come off as overly dark and a bit on the slow side (I think that's because the bass is less responsive). The SR-009s, can extract every last detail in a recording like to other headphone and still sound very musical and not clinical. The imaging is also better on the SR-009s to my ears in my setup. But as mentioned, owning both is a win-win IMO.


----------



## zolkis

arnaud said:


> My 007k1 pads are brown ones, very stiff (I wonder if they're supposed to be like or the foam deteriorated with age / got stiffer?). So, trying the current 009 pads on it would seem like a good try (009 pads are so much more comfortable).
> The change in pads can be as if not even more drastic than the change in diaphragm so you're probably onto something here...


 
  
 That is my experience too: it's unbelievable how much change different pads can do. Of course the diaphragm is an invariant, and imposes natural limits to the headphones, but pads can change the sound significantly, and eventually change the game for the given headphone.
  
All the 007 pads I have are quite different. The old-old brown type is made from thicker leather, rather soft. The foam insider got smaller and more soft over time. The sound is round and soft in comparison with the others.
 The newer brown 007 Mk1 type is from thinner and finer leather, very soft too, like the best expensive gloves. This is the one I modified, and they are the most comfortable of all. It had somewhat stiffer internal foam, and had a pretty good sound to start with, and with the mods it became rather excellent.
 The black Mk2 pads are again from stiffer leather and stiffer foam; they are also thicker, not so comfy as either of the old ones. But these do sound perhaps the best in the stock form, maybe a bit deeper bass, and somewhat more open sound. IIRC Spritzer is using these pads (and Mk2 assembly with Mk1 drivers).
  
 The 009 pads are from higher quality thick leather, and the leather ring securing the headphone is actually reinforced with lining from inside (or it's pleather), making it much more durable to pad changes. This is the best Stax pad design to this date (I only wish they would also experiment with felt, wool and open cell carbon foam instead of using the same closed cell foams for 20-30 years). The leather is not as soft as the newer brown 007 Mk1 pads mainly because the thickness. It may be possible to treat it to become softer, but I agree they are rather comfortable as they are.
 The foam inside is rather soft and quite shallow. With the 007 that causes the front of the driver getting a tad too close to the ear, resulting in some midrange elevation. My ears are a few dB's more sensitive to the 1-3 kHz region than the normal (I know everyone is more sensitive to this region, but I do have an anomaly, corrected by my brain and aging to most extent, but still a tendency), so it actually may be fine with most people. For myself, I will experiment with assembling a 2 mm thick felt ring inside the pad on the top of the foam (this is non-destructive) to see if it helps.
  
 The improvement over the stock 007 Mk1 is quite evident, but not as dramatic as with the Fostex TH900, which became a different class of a headphone after the mods (carbon foam ear pad insert, felt ring damper and cup damping). That is one's dream headphone for personal tuning headroom . Still, the 007 improvements may be a game changer for many people.
  
 Beware that after mounting the 009 pads you need to adjust the head bands as well! Uniform pressure over the ear with slightly-slightly more pressure in the bottom (so need to change the shape), setting it the pressure against the ears not too tight and not too loose either. There is a sweet spot when the sound stage and the tonality is the best. Once you find that spot, will know what to be after and how to set the head bands next time .
  
 I listened to them this morning too (my morning ears are the best), and it was a fresh experience, pure pleasure, confirming the findings. Anyone having a 007 Mk1 should hear it with the 009 pads (I know it's a big statement, but that's why the invitation to try it out). Then, once you get a taste how big difference pads can make, perhaps you'll feel more inclination to experiment with different materials . Which I ended up doing during the past year. Now I am nearly done, only hoping I could get the 007 a deep bass with a visceral impact similar of the modded TH900. Once you hear that there is no way back. Though the 009 may have better potential for achieving it via pad mods. Ehh, so pity I can't listen to a 009 in my area easily.


----------



## Michgelsen

I do not recall hearing a significant difference when I replaced the earpads with black mk2 pads on my mk1 SR-007. Maybe a tiny bit, but I'm not sure if it's real or imaginary. Either way, the nature of the headphones didn't change at all.


----------



## Mahay

mahay said:


> Hello everyone,
> Is it possible to add 1.4" jack to a stax amplifier so then one can compare a dynamic phone with electrostatic using the same amplifier. If yes, how do you mod your stax amplifier.
> Thanks in advance


 


kevin gilmore said:


> NO!


 
  
 The reason I asked is because I notice that there are some amplifier out there that can handle both electrostatic and dynamic headphones at the same time like the vostok sound for instance or the one in this picture 
  

  
 So I was just curious if it is possible to mod a stax amplifier


----------



## kevin gilmore

that amplifier has a multiple tap output transformer to drive both kinds of headphones.
  
 stax amps have no such transformer.
  
 there are a couple of other amps that are built like this.
 I would stay away from all of them.


----------



## Lan647

macedonianhero said:


> The SR-007Mk1's sound very natural, fast and clean with a slight tendency to the darker side of neutral (when properly amped). When the amping is insufficient, they can come off as overly dark and a bit on the slow side (I think that's because the bass is less responsive). *The SR-009s, can extract every last detail in a recording like to other headphone and still sound very musical and not clinical. *The imaging is also better on the SR-009s to my ears in my setup. But as mentioned, owning both is a win-win IMO.


 

 This pretty much sums up the greatness of the 009 to me. While I do think it lacks the midrange magic of the O2, the overall sound is quite enjoyable to listen to. I actually find myself jamming to some of my tunes with this headphone, while I am simultaneously spoiled by the resolution of fine detail. It's not a dull sound at all to my ears, unlike the HD 800 which just sounds sterile and uninviting. The O2 is in a league of its own in my humble opinion, wiping the floor with everything else I have heard (I have not heard the R10 or Orpheus yet, though). But the 009 is probably number two in my book.


----------



## edstrelow

Got an email this AM from Stax USA aka Yamasinc that they are having a Black Friday sale. This is the first Stax sale I can ever recall.  Looking at the site there do appear to be some major prices drops and free shipping, even on the 009, plus free shipping.   Anyone who is looking for a new Stax might want to check it out.


----------



## zolkis

zolkis said:


> The 009 pads are from higher quality thick leather, and the leather ring securing the headphone is actually reinforced with lining from inside (or it's pleather), making it much more durable to pad changes. (...)
> The foam inside is rather soft and quite shallow. With the 007 that causes the front of the driver getting a tad too close to the ear, resulting in some midrange elevation. My ears are a few dB's more sensitive to the 1-3 kHz region than the normal (I know everyone is more sensitive to this region, but I do have an anomaly, corrected by my brain and aging to most extent, but still a tendency), so it actually may be fine with most people. For myself, I will experiment with assembling a 2 mm thick felt ring inside the pad on the top of the foam (this is non-destructive) to see if it helps.


 
  
 OK, done with experimenting. The slope of the foam inside the 009 pads is a bit too steep for the 007 IMO. In principle I tried elevating the front part a bit. From my Fostex TH900 experiments I knew which kind of felt to use and about how much. So started with a crescent shaped 3 mm thick and about third outer perimeter long felt piece. Sounded with more bass, bigger stage, and darker. OK, I wanted something near the other end, so I started reducing the size proportionally, until only that much change was audible that reduced the midrange to my comfortable level, and also improved the sound stage and bass. The sound got a bit deeper tone (clicked in to natural from being too forward to my taste), midrange and treble calmed down, but didn't sound dark. It sounds now like a 007 should, just more open and more musical and dynamic resolution (not to be confused with treble information). Also, now I can hear amp and source differences much more clearly with the 007.
  
 I can recommend this procedure to all 009 owners too, especially if you want to dial back a bit the treble and increase a bit the bass slam and sound stage. I have not tried this on a 009, but my experience so far tells it will cause similar effect. You don't even need to take the pad off.
 On my 007 I have ended up assembling the piece of felt inside the pad, as the picture shows, but the same audible effect was obtained by placing the felt between the pad and the assembly, making it removable without removing the pad. 
  

  
  
 You may ask what's the deal with this size of small felt. Believe me, I am confident to clearly hear the difference in a double blind test, at least if you allow me selecting the recording . 
 If you assemble the felt inside the pad, the correct way of opening it is illustrated above, i.e. you need to fold out the leather part completely, then fold in again (on the picture I pushed in one end to make the felt piece better visible). You can see that the sides are real leather, and the parts with no direct skin contact are pleather.
  
  
 If you are adventurous and want to trade off some treble volume for more bass (actually, deeper tone) on the 009, you can also do a full ring shaped after the internal foam of the 009, and place on top of the foam. Perhaps that will do too much change, but maybe it's worth trying, the 009 has a lot of headroom for that.
  
 I have used these felt sources:
http://www.meervilt.nl/winkel/wolvilt/wolvilt-3-mm/
http://www.createdbymascha.nl/c-1361241/wolvilt-dikte-3-mm/
https://www.etsy.com/listing/166846959/3mm-thick-wool-felt-9-x-18-in-23-colors?ref=related-0
  
 For cutting proper circles in felt, I recommend you buy a tool like the Olfa cutter, but a sharp, rigid, tight, thin blade scissor is also sufficient.
http://www.amazon.com/1057028-CMP-3-Rotary-Circle-Cutter/dp/B001CEAMCY/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1417288659&sr=8-7
  
 Finally here is a pic of my 007 with new head pad and the new 009 ear pads.
  

  
 For 009 owners, this experiment costs just a few dollars and some experimentation, even if it sounds incredible it's worth any trying. For 007 owners it's more since the 009 pads are needed. But if you will need new pads for the 007 at some point, I heartily recommend getting the 009 pads for a bit more money (much more easy to assemble as well), and enjoy your reborn 007 as much as I do .


----------



## MacedonianHero

lan647 said:


> This pretty much sums up the greatness of the 009 to me. While I do think it lacks the midrange magic of the O2, the overall sound is quite enjoyable to listen to. I actually find myself jamming to some of my tunes with this headphone, while I am simultaneously spoiled by the resolution of fine detail. It's not a dull sound at all to my ears, unlike the HD 800 which just sounds sterile and uninviting. The O2 is in a league of its own in my humble opinion, wiping the floor with everything else I have heard (I have not heard the R10 or Orpheus yet, though). But the 009 is probably number two in my book.


 
 Actually I still prefer the mid-range of the SR009s...they are effortless and work equally well with male and female voices. The SR-007s; while very strong in this regard, don't seem to have that magic with female voices.


----------



## cucera

macedonianhero said:


> I've had my SR-007 Mk1s for almost a year now and really love what they can do. They truly shine as some of the very best headphones I've heard. But in the end, the SR-009s are just a cut above to my ears. While I haven't heard the SR-007Mk1's on a BHSE (I own both the KGSSHV and LL2 and both sound truly excellent with both headphones), I have heard them on my friend's DIY T2.
> 
> In the end though, the solution was quite simple....both.  :evil:





I habe now the 009 as a loan too and I have to agree with our Macedonian hero: I need both to have the best possible sound for every music type. 

The 009 is technically superiour and I prefer it with classical music. But with pop/rock my 007 wins because of the warmer tone and more magical voices. Now there is no way I can afford both and the BHSE and keep my Smyth Realiser. So makes me thinking to get the 009 and simulate the 007 MK1. I will see.


----------



## eric65

I also have a 009 and a 007 mk3 (= mk2 with vents blocked)

 As amplification, I had  the SRM 727 since replaced by the combo RKV-Wee then the combo RKV-Verto, and soon the Luminare amp (which could be even higher quality than the previous combos on some details (better OP-Amp in particular)).
  
 Results: for all types of listening:
 I do use only the 009 (and sometimes the HD 600 for home theater); 007 sleeps in a drawer (NB: I should soon give it to a family member with a decent amp).
 I criticized the 007 because is its false tone (not true) for the reproduction of the human voice or a classical instrument like the piano; it bothers me enough to permanently remove this headphone.

 For fun (with even more dynamic bass), I'll direct me to other headphones (particularly orthodynamics)


----------



## TheAttorney

zolkis said:


> I can recommend this procedure to all 009 owners too, especially if you want to dial back a bit the treble and increase a bit the bass slam and sound stage. I have not tried this on a 009, but my experience so far tells it will cause similar effect. You don't even need to take the pad off.


 
 Firstly, I'm impressed (again) with the level of detail and effort you've put into these experiments.
  
 As someone who has never gone beyond sewing a button on a shirt, I've not tried any of your earlier suggestions that require the 007 pad to be broken open and then stitched up again - I doubt the the pads would ever be the same again. However, the 009 pads appear to be easier to to experiment with. Are you saying that you can insert the felt into an 009 pad without need ing to do any stitching or unstitching? Just roll them back?
 Can you clarify what you mean by "you don't need to take the pad off"?
  
 My 009s will be arriving in a couple of weeks, so I'll be able to see for myself then.


----------



## zolkis

theattorney said:


> Are you saying that you can insert the felt into an 009 pad without need ing to do any stitching or unstitching? Just roll them back?
> Can you clarify what you mean by "you don't need to take the pad off"?




Just lift a little bit the inner front part of the pad, and insert the felt piece between the pad and the dust grill (cloth). I recommend starting with a bigger crescent shaped piece, like quarter perimeter long, and trim until sounds good. The Type of felt influences the sound. The Etsy felt, 3rd link is pretty good. Overseas order takes like 2 weeks.

[edit] 
I would like to add that actually it is better to use that piece of felt between the pad and the grill (i.e. not placing inside the head pad), since it gives more freedom, and sounds the same. I tried moving the felt piece around the pad circumference, and I found that the best effect was at the bottom of the pads.

However, I guess many people won't need this for the 007 when used with the 009 pads. In turn it may be interesting to 009 owners.


----------



## Lan647

macedonianhero said:


> Actually I still prefer the mid-range of the SR009s...they are effortless and work equally well with male and female voices. The SR-007s; while very strong in this regard, don't seem to have that magic with female voices.


 

 I disagree.


----------



## Tachikoma

Not entirely relevant to the current discussion, but I use 007 pads on all of my headphones except the gamma pros/ The 007 pads improves the bass on any vintage electrostatic compared to the original pads, and are so much more comfortable.


----------



## VandyMan

I took advantage of the sale at Stax USA and ordered a 009. I'm really excited! The sale price (w/ free shipping) is still more than PriceJapan, but less than any other US website that I found. Now I need to figure out what amp to get. I'd like a BHSE, but I'm going to start with something less expensive. Probably a STAX amp, but which one?


----------



## cucera

vandyman said:


> I took advantage of the sale at Stax USA and ordered a 009. I'm really excited! The sale price (w/ free shipping) is still more than PriceJapan, but less than any other US website that I found. Now I need to figure out what amp to get. I'd like a BHSE, but I'm going to start with something less expensive. Probably a STAX amp, but which one?




Stax SRA 717 is the only one I would recommend without modding. Otherwise Amps from other vendors especially KGSS and KGSSHv


----------



## Jones Bob

Or DIY a KGST.


----------



## cucera

eric65 said:


> I also have a 009 and a 007 mk3 (= mk2 with vents blocked)
> 
> Results: for all types of listening:
> I do use only the 009 (and sometimes the HD 600 for home theater); 007 sleeps in a drawer




Sure you've got the worst possible version of the 007 (called MK2.5 here). And maybe if you are lucky you will hear a good version of it on a decent amp (the 007 needs much more power than the 009). Please report back in that case.


----------



## VandyMan

> Stax SRA 717 is the only one I would recommend without modding. Otherwise Amps from other vendors especially KGSS and KGSSHv


 
  
 Would this SRA-727ii w/ mods be a good choice? http://www.head-fi.org/t/743476/stax-srm-727ii-with-feedback-mod-done-by-head-amp#post_11086305
  
 I'd buy a KGSS or KGSSHv if I could find one for sale. Building one is beyond both my ability and free time.


----------



## cucera

vandyman said:


> Would this SRA-727ii w/ mods be a good choice? http://www.head-fi.org/t/743476/stax-srm-727ii-with-feedback-mod-done-by-head-amp#post_11086305




Yes, this can easily be recommended and will make a wait for the BHSE quite easy.


----------



## astrostar59

cucera said:


> Stax SRA 717 is the only one I would recommend without modding. Otherwise Amps from other vendors especiallz KGSS and KGSSHv


 
 I agree. Other Stax amps just don't get close to what the 009s are capable of. The 717 is good, and if you like it, made do with that, and save for a DIY KGSShv later. A good one can be built for the same price as a new SRM-727 and will get real close to the BHSE.
  
 You need to have a smooth and high quality front end though, the 009s will reveal warts and all, and be fairly unforgiving on a cheap DAC. The 007s hide that a bit, but at the expense of ultimate quality and detail.


----------



## VandyMan

astrostar59 said:


> I agree. Other Stax amps just don't get close to what the 009s are capable of. The 717 is good, and if you like it, made do with that, and save for a DIY KGSShv later. A good one can be built for the same price as a new SRM-727 and will get real close to the BHSE.
> 
> You need to have a smooth and high quality front end though, the 009s will reveal warts and all, and be fairly unforgiving on a cheap DAC. The 007s hide that a bit, but at the expense of ultimate quality and detail.


 
  
 Thanks everyone for the advice. I decided to buy a used modded SRM-727ii to get me started. I got a good deal and am picking it up in person tomorrow. Something better in the future, perhaps.

 My front-end will be Mac Mini->Auralic Vega, so I think I'm all set for when my new 009s arrive. Can't wait!


----------



## Lan647

cucera said:


> *Sure you've got the worst possible version of the 007 (called MK2.5 here)*. And maybe if you are lucky you will hear a good version of it on a decent amp (the 007 needs much more power than the 009). Please report back in that case.


 

 If the vent is blocked, the SZ3 007 is great as well. The presentation is more intimate and assertive, more "fun" than the mk1 which is a bit more laid-back. Same awesome quality level though, apart from down very low where the mk1 is ever so slightly superior.


----------



## cucera

Yes the sz3 are more "fun" and "modern" sounding (= boomy bass and strange hights) but that is just my ears . Look at the innerfidelity measurement and you will see with one glance what I mean.


----------



## georgep

Port mod unfortunately does not bring the mk2.5 even close to the sz2 (mk2), let alone the mk1. It is like a completely different headphone ( still better than a lot of other stuff out there).


----------



## Jones Bob

If I am not mistaken, the mk2.5 even has a different diaphram too.


----------



## Advert

cucera said:


> Sure you've got the worst possible version of the 007 (called MK2.5 here). And maybe if you are lucky you will hear a good version of it on a decent amp (the 007 needs much more power than the 009). Please report back in that case.


 
  where is the vent? do you have picture of that?
 i also 007mk2 user, but i dont even know that there is mk 2.5 hehehe
 now im curious mine is mk2 or mk2.5
  
 is there much differences between mk2 and mk2,5?
  
  
 thank you!


----------



## cucera

Ok here are the different versions of the SR-007 or Omega2:

Mk1 with early SN 70xxx the most neutral and best

Mk1 middle period SN71xx verry good

Mk1 with late SN SZ1 xxxx
 not constantly the best mixed bag

Mk2 with SN SZ2 xxxx (around 2007-2009) better cable strain relieve .A port and spring mod can bring them up to MK1 level

Mk2 with SN SZ3 xxxx starting from about 2010 (even though some earlier SZ3 were sold in Europe and are still MK2, complicated) .Those were called by the Mafia MK2.5 even though Stax is not calling them that way officially. 

 Stax changed the diaphragm and tweaked some other aspects so it just won't work as good as older versions.
Even Spritzer tried to mod a Mk2.5 but it just won't take to it.

Now that doesn't mean the new MK2.5 is a bad phone it is still better than any dynamic and most planar magnetic cans. But not up to the MK1 level that rivals on good amps with the 009, SR-Omega and Orpheus (HE90) for the title of the best headphone ever made.

another aspect is all the old MK1 cables will fail some day and most need new pads to sound best.


----------



## eric65

cucera said:


> Sure you've got the worst possible version of the 007 (called MK2.5 here). And maybe if you are lucky you will hear a good version of it on a decent amp (the 007 needs much more power than the 009). Please report back in that case.


 
  
 The company Stax is completely stupid to continue producing SR 007 mk2.5 (SZ3) if they are as bad as this, when it could well revive production of SR 007 original mk1 if it so wished (if they are as good as that) ; unless it be to avoid concurrency SR-009 to 1.5 x more expensive?


----------



## cucera

eric65 said:


> The company Stax is completely stupid to continue producing SRM 007 mk2.5 (SZ3) if they are as bad as this, when it could well revive production of SRM 007 original mk1 if it so wished (if they are as good as that) ; unless it be to avoid concurrency SDR-009 to 1.5 x more expensive?




That is exactly what they are as the MK1 is sold used for more money than they get for a new MK2.5 in Japan. And they managed to screw up the Lambda series as well. At least they have one real good product right now and thus is the SR-009 and some entry level amps are excellent for the price.


----------



## Michgelsen

cucera said:


> Mk1 with early SN 70xxx the most neutral and best
> 
> Mk1 middle period SN71xx verry good
> 
> ...


 
  
 Source? Have you heard all these versions?
  
  


cucera said:


> another aspect is all the old MK1 cables will fail some day


 
  
 Don't exaggerate. All you have to do is not step on them while you're wearing the headphones, and you will be fine.


----------



## cucera

michgelsen said:


> Source? Have you heard all these versions?
> 
> 
> 
> Don't exaggerate. All you have to do is not step on them while you're wearing the headphones, and you will be fine.




Source is Spritzer who has heared all of them, but I have listened to a few different ones too (well not all MK1 variations).

Regarding Cable of MK1 if you take care it can surely last long. That is why I use an extension cable most of the time.


----------



## georgep

Mk2.5 have SZ3 serial number while the earlier MK2 have SZ2 serial number. Officially both are "007 MK2" or "007A", but the SZ2 serial will have MK1 drivers while the SZ3 drivers are new and have a very different sound. The SZ2 housing can be modded to sound like a MK1 while the SZ3 cannot.


----------



## Lan647

cucera said:


> Yes the sz3 are more "fun" and "modern" sounding (= boomy bass and strange hights) but that is just my ears . Look at the innerfidelity measurement and you will see with one glance what I mean.


 

 You have to do the port mod first to fix the bass hump/roll-off issue. After that, it's more a matter of which character you prefer.


----------



## cucera

lan647 said:


> You have to do the port mod first to fix the bass hump/roll-off issue. After that, it's more a matter of which character you prefer.




It is more than that if you really talk about mk2.5. Even Spritzer was not able to tweak it to neutral. But you might be among the minority here who prefers the MK2.5 and that is fine. No arguing about taste.


----------



## Lan647

cucera said:


> It is more than that if you really talk about mk2.5. Even Spritzer was not able to tweak it to neutral. But you might be among the minority here who prefers the MK2.5 and that is fine. No arguing about taste.


 

 I do prefer the mk1 and yes, it's more neutral. But I actually like the modified SZ3 (I guess it's mk2.5?). It's very different indeed but not much less fantastic in my humble opinion. I prefer both (and every other revision of the O2) to everything else out there that I've heard, including the SR-009.


----------



## Advert

cucera said:


> Ok here are the different versions of the SR-007 or Omega2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


thank you for the information


----------



## Hun7er

Hi,
  
 I have an SR007MKI SN70xxx and SN71xxx and they sound exactly the same. I'm agree that is one the best headphone and definitely a keeper over HD800, Audeze LCDX.... It manages to have a flat measurement without being overly analytical or shrill.
 It remains to my headphone pantheon with the Stax Sigma and JPS Abyss.


----------



## Michgelsen

BTW, there are also SR-007s with serial number 7*2*xxx. I have one. Probably sounds exactly the same too.
  
 Edit: I don't agree with the the SR-007 having a 'flat measurement', but nonetheless the midrange is very lifelike. Their true-to-life midrange together with their non-offensive sound make it a superb all-rounder for me. Imaging and the layering of the soundstage is also superb, and it is here that they show most their superiority over the Lambdas.


----------



## zolkis

I think they are also tonally superior over the Lambdas. Mine is 703xx, I heard another 703xx vs the 009 and I much preferred the 009 that time (at first listening), off a 727, which doesn't do justice to the 007, and sounded a bit rough with the treble of the 009. Since then I came to appreciate my 007 very much, especially with the 009 ear pads.


----------



## zolkis

hun7er said:


> I have an SR007MKI SN70xxx and SN71xxx and they sound exactly the same. I'm agree that is one the best headphone and definitely a keeper over HD800, Audeze LCDX.... It manages to have a flat measurement without being overly analytical or shrill.
> It remains to my headphone pantheon with the Stax Sigma and JPS Abyss.


 
  
 How do you find the 007 midrange compared to the Abyss, and how do you perceive their differences in bass? (hmm.... deja vu... have I asked this before???


----------



## n3rdling

There's no comparison.  The 007 has one of the better midranges out there, while the Abyss' midrange is pretty bleh.  Strings sound very off, and the midrange in general just has this sort of distant and somewhat scooped sound to it.  The higher in frequency you go, the worse the Abyss gets.  The bass is phenomenal, but the treble is flat out terrible.  Really a jeckll and hyde kinda headphone.  I could see it being really good for electronic music, but the overall sound signature doesn't really work for me where instruments are the reference.


----------



## Lan647

There is no comparison in my opinion either! Call me harsh but the Abyss sucks compared to the SR-007. Fun bass but uneven response and awful treble. Not to mention all the issues with regards to build and ergonomics.


----------



## Decoy

cucera said:


> That is exactly what they are as the MK1 is sold used for more money than they get for a new MK2.5 in Japan. And they managed to screw up the Lambda series as well. At least they have one real good product right now and thus is the SR-009 and some entry level amps are excellent for the price.


 
 What entry-level amps would you say pairs well with the sr-009?


----------



## zolkis

decoy said:


> What entry-level amps would you say pairs well with the sr-009?


 
  
 Discussed so many times . All of them will work (e.g. a 323S), but expect a bit rougher treble, less bass, less clarity than with a KGSSHV for instance. The price of an extremely revealing headphone . While the 009 will work with more amps than the 007, in practice everyone here seem to end up getting a very good amp and source with the 009. Why not save the time, and start with the right thing? Unless of course your reasoning needs longer time to get used with the idea of spending so much on a headphone system.


----------



## cucera

Agree with Zolkis but I think the 323s is a verry decent amp and as good or even better than The current unmodded Stax Totl. Until you can affird something like KGSSHv or Bhse you should be fine with it.


----------



## Nitori

I have used a 323s for my sr009 for a bit more than 6 months before I switched to a KGSShv. Differences were breathtaking, especially in the bass region. Still the 323s drove them very well so if you really want an entry level amp first, I would go for it.


----------



## Tachikoma

I haven't had any cable trouble with my 007 since I replaced the last cable, but out of curiosity, will the current mk2.5 cable fit on the mk1?


----------



## georgep

No, the cable entry is very different. 

And you shouldn't have any trouble with the mk1 cable if you are not putting undue stress on it - pretty much like any other stax.


----------



## crazychile

Hi Guys,
  
 I own a pair of Koss ESP950s and I want to convert the cable so I can use them with a modern 5 pin Stax amp. Does anyone know of a connector part number from Amphenol, Neutrik, etc so I can DIY a Stax connector for my Koss cable?
  
 I saw one available from moon-audio, but wasn't sure if there were better options out there.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## cucera

Moon is the only comercial option.


----------



## Decoy

vandyman said:


> Would this SRA-727ii w/ mods be a good choice? http://www.head-fi.org/t/743476/stax-srm-727ii-with-feedback-mod-done-by-head-amp#post_11086305
> 
> I'd buy a KGSS or KGSSHv if I could find one for sale. Building one is beyond both my ability and free time.


 
 I have a 727ii in the mail to me and I too have been considering possible mods.  There are two very simple mods (feedback and gain) here: 
  
 http://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/8703-the-srm727-thread/
  
 Are there any other straightforward (easy/inexpensive) mods that should be considered?


----------



## n3rdling

There's a more extensive mod that brings the amp closer to the KGSSHV design also.  It requires removing boards temporarily and swapping transistors.


----------



## georgep

decoy said:


> I have a 727ii in the mail to me and I too have been considering possible mods.  There are two very simple mods (feedback and gain) here:
> 
> http://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/8703-the-srm727-thread/
> 
> Are there any other straightforward (easy/inexpensive) mods that should be considered?




That is the easy/inexpensive mod. Though I seem to recall that the gain mod caused some unforeseen issues. I don't think it was recommended.

The mod n3rdling referenced is more like major surgery so not for the faint of heart. Though I understand from at least one person who has done it is that it brings it close to the level of a KGSSHV. You also need to get your hands on some out of production transistors (which are still available).


----------



## okw3188

What about any mod for SRM-006TS?


----------



## astrostar59

Hmm, seems daft. Why not sell the 727 and commission / build a decent KGSShv. The cost can be as low as the new price
 for a 727 and you get:
  
 1. More current
 2. Better quality parts
 3. Better output board design and chips
 4. More dynamic headroom
 5. Real Bass!
 6. Smoother treble and more realistic sound
 7. Audiophile level of music (not the 727/717 - ok, is quite nice - but... I find it fatiguing, unrealistic, metallic)
  
 I have a mint 717 and it is NO WAY near to my KGSSHv, sorry dude, I just don't believe that a 727 mod
 can bring that tinny box close. Besides the (presumed) increased current and spec would produce more heat
 which would probably blow it up. My KGSShv off-board has serious heatsinks.
  
 Sell the Stax amp and move onto a better design IMO.


----------



## georgep

astrostar59 said:


> Hmm, seems daft. Why not sell the 727 and commission / build a decent KGSShv. The cost can be as low as the new price
> 
> 
> for a 727 and you get:
> ...



 


The only thing daft here is your opinion about the mod which shows you have no knowledge of the mod or the KGSSHV. The mod n3rdling referenced was a mod Kevin Gilmore came up with. He himself has indicated it essentially turns the 727 into a lower powered KGSSHV. Not sure what technical knowledge you are relying on to suggest that the 727 would probably blow up - Kevin Gilmore didn't think so. Also not sure why you are trying to contrast the KGSSHV with a modded amp you have never heard. Do you know what the modifications are? And a KGSSHV does not have better "chips" or "better quality parts" - were there any specific ones you had in mind? It is certainly fair to say the KGSSHV is superior to the 717 and 727 (have you even listened to the 727?), but what you state above is completely made up. Please stop, it doesn't help anyone.

The feedback mod (also recommended by Kevin Gilmore and originally executed by Spritzer/Birgir) is a no-brainer and easily makes the 727 a clear excellent choice at its price point.


----------



## Rossliew

Just get a KGSSHV would be the best bet. 
  
 Currently listening to my 007 Mk 2 with the KGST - BLISS!


----------



## georgep

Just get a T2 would be the best bet. If you build it yourself, it doesn't cost a ton more than buying a KGSSHV from a builder. 

Last night listening to my 007mk1 with the DIY-T2 - BLISS!


----------



## Rossliew

georgep said:


> Just get a T2 would be the best bet. If you build it yourself, it doesn't cost a ton more than buying a KGSSHV from a builder.
> 
> Last night listening to my 007mk1 with the DIY-T2 - BLISS!


 

 Where can one find a decently built T2 for sale?


----------



## georgep

Not for me to say. But if that will be your route you will need to muster some serious cash.


----------



## astrostar59

Hmm, my 717 is basically the same as the 727 with the feedback mod. The 717/727 is way way behind my KGSShv - sorry dude not buying your point on that.
  
 Next points, my KGSShv has an audio grade Torroidy transformer, and Panasonic Capacitors, tantalum resistors, silver plated copper wiring on the HT.
  
 Do I need to go on?
  
 The trans in the 717 is really cheaply made. The volume pot is even more basic and has a big impact on the sound loss, my KGSShv has a 41 step Acoustic-Dimension quad series attenuator - miles better, and the stax socket is made by HeadAmp.
  
 Next point, I went from a years solid use on my 717 to the KGSShv and the jump in SQ is not subtle.
  
 The Kevin mod may be worthwhile. I respect Kevin, as the top guy in stat amp designs, he designed the 717 and the KGSShv.
 True, the mod will improve the 727 if you follow Kevin's directions, but I can't see it would be worth the mod myself. You are effectively trying to upgrade a cheaply made Stax amp into something else. Remember, DIY built amps don't have the 100% mark-up to worry about.
  
 As I said, you can get a great KGSShv for the new price of the 727.
  
 Then you have  the parts in the 727 mod to buy, and the risk of messing the process up, and possible resale.
  
 All this obvious to me.


----------



## paradoxper

georgep said:


> Just get a T2 would be the best bet. If you build it yourself, it doesn't cost a ton more than buying a KGSSHV from a builder.
> 
> Last night listening to my 007mk1 with the DIY-T2 - BLISS!


 
 Just get this done at any freakin' costs !


----------



## astrostar59

Hi Paradoxper
 Yes, I agree, at any cost. I spend so much this last year on my headphones and speaker system, but it gives me miles
 more enjoyment than anything I can think of. Spend as much as a good car - hell yes - the hifi will still sound good years after the car is worn out....
  
 Paradoxper, have you heard a T2 DIY? I am thinking you have the bug for one, so must have?
 If yes, what was the jump from your KGSShv?
  
 I am loving my KGSShv built by you know who - solid performance.


----------



## paradoxper

astrostar59 said:


> Hi Paradoxper
> Yes, I agree, at any cost. I spend so much this last year on my headphones and speaker system, but it gives me miles
> more enjoyment than anything I can think of. Spend as much as a good car - hell yes - the hifi will still sound good years after the car is worn out....
> 
> ...


 
 My viewpoint is pursue a DIY commissioned build - there's such great value there. Plus, you get to customize the build (if wanted) to your satisfaction.
  
 Never heard a T2, but am pursuing one hard. It's a very, very not easy thing to find a builder. So when you do, cough it up big. 
  
 I am immensely enjoying my HV - it's just one heck of an amp.


----------



## astrostar59

Yes the KGSShv is one heck of an amp. The thing that some on this forum don't get, aside from the amp design is the parts qualities. The production Stax amps are built to a price.
 Ok, the design is to function v price point, but the 727 retailed at £1800 will be a £900 amp at best. Take a look inside guys, it is all there to see. Like, where do we start, taking out all the
 cheap parts, what is left? Even the RCAs on the back are cheaply made on thin plastic boards.
  
 I believe as many audiophile manufacturers do, that the SQ is part design of the amp, and part qualities. It is entirely possible to build a top shelf KGSShv that could sound bette
 than any before it by using silver transformers, blackgate caps, silver wiring, best transformers, shortest possible wiring paths, best attenuators.


----------



## georgep

astrostar59 said:


> Hmm, my 717 is basically the same as the 727 with the feedback mod. The 717/727 is way way behind my KGSShv - sorry dude not buying your point on that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


You don't have to buy my point on anything, "dude". My point is for you to stop making stuff up. Why do say the transformers Stax uses are "cheaply made"? They could use larger ones sure, they could use better ones, sure, but they are trying to stay within a certain footprint and price range. There is nothing wrong with their transformers. Why is the pot "even more basic"? It is an ALPs RK27 - some people say it is great, some think it is not so great. It is not a cheap part at all (I believe Stax also used it in their SRM-T2 and it is used in many other high-end audio components) and costs more than the Alpha pot that Head Amp uses. The 727 with feedback mod is also not basically the same as the 717 - where are you getting that from? The circuits are quite different.

In North America you cannot buy a KGSSHV for the price of the new 727 - check Price Japan or even Stax USA these days - there is just no comparison (I can't say anything about eurozone though). Why are you saying the Stax amps are "cheaply made" - that is simply not true. Please identify the parts that you say are "cheap" and why. What is wrong with the XLR sockets that Stax uses? I would also expect there is more markup in price with KGSSHVs then there is with Stax amps - even Justin has commented that he is of the view that Stax sells their amps at a loss and that he could not compete in that price range. And I like the Head Amp teflon sockets too, but why do you think they are better than the sockets that Stax makes? HeadAmp doesn't think the teflon ones are better as they used the Stax ones in the past and continue to use black Amphenol sockets in addition to the white teflon ones. Maybe you should recable you earspeakers as that must be the weakest link in the chain now - it was made by Stax after all. Oh dear, and those diaphrams, etc. - nasty stuff.

And sure, your KGSSHV may have some fancy shmancy "boutique" parts that distinguishes it from the norm (Toroidy excepted, as they are simply a good producer of reasonably priced transformers in Europe - nothing special though). And I hope your 48-step pot isn't a khozmo - you will need to toss it at some point in the near future as every person I know who has used one experienced noise or failure at some later point. I would take a RK27 over that thing any day of the week.

All that said, I don't believe anyone recommended that people go out and buy a 727 for the purpose of performing the significant KG mod on it. But to crap on it for completely inaccurate reasons just isn't helpful.



(Edit: Just so no one thinks otherwise, nothing I have said is meant to demean in any way Geoff's KGSSHV work (Headinclouds). His work is excellent and his casework is well beyond what most buidlers can achieve - I think he provides excellent value and I wish I was as accomplished at DIY as Geoff is)


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Well said. Stax amps have very (very) good build quality, and are hard to beat considering SQ vs. price vs. footprint...at least when keeping you hands far off the european prices.
 An SRM-727A through pricejapan + mod is a real bargain. You may also have an SRM-727II with mod directly from Justin.
  
 Ali


----------



## greggf

Yes, forget about audio and facts and alleged parts quality and costs and economics.  If anybody has any psychological explanations for why some people feel an obsessive need to slam STAX amps over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, I'd like to hear them!


----------



## NoPants

astrostar59 said:


> Yes the KGSShv is one heck of an amp. The thing that some on this forum don't get, aside from the amp design is the parts qualities. The production Stax amps are built to a price.
> Ok, the design is to function v price point, but the 727 retailed at £1800 will be a £900 amp at best. Take a look inside guys, it is all there to see. Like, where do we start, taking out all the
> cheap parts, what is left? Even the RCAs on the back are cheaply made on thin plastic boards.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Most of your parts criticism is just based on material composition, there's nothing wrong with using these- commercial or otherwise. Would you put an RK50 into your unit when it costs as much as the amplifier itself? Why didn't you opt for caddock MK132s everywhere? 
  
 Also the majority of blackgates are so old that they'd give worse performance than new non-blackgate capacitors. Does one still use them if they posed a danger to operating the amplifier? 
  
 The KGSSHV itself is designing to a certain level of performance so I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here. Is it that if you stuff a KGSSHV with boutiques to the parts cost of a run-of-the-mill BH, you're going to get BH performance?


----------



## blackads

ali-pacha said:


> Well said. Stax amps have very (very) good build quality, and are hard to beat considering SQ vs. price vs. footprint...at least when keeping you hands far off the european prices.
> An SRM-727A through pricejapan + mod is a real bargain. You may also have an SRM-727II with mod directly from Justin.
> 
> Ali





If you mod your 727 you are voiding the warranty anyway, so it's a no brainer to buy one for US$1120 from pricejapan - modded its a very decent amp, it may not be endgame but it's highly listenable and if you do decide to upgrade its well suited as a stop gap whil your bhse is built... And it can easily be on sold at little to no loss....


----------



## astrostar59

Jeeze, this is getting silly. Lets go back to basics. Have you actually heard this Modded 727 against a KGSShv off-board. I doubt you have.
  
 I have the 717 and a KGSShv here, and let me assure you they are MILES APART, it is NO CONTEST.
  
 If I go back to my 717 now, it is synthetic, steely, unnatural, flat, closed in, weak bass, edgy treble. Just way behind driving the 009s which 
 are supposed to be ok with less current.
  
 In the UK the 727 is £1800, and a good DIY KGSShv can be built for that, less if you build it yourself.
  
 Back to one of the points in the other post, I have heard the BHSE v my KGSShv and it was very close, the BHSE had more feel in the vocals,
 the KGSShv more bass and dynamics. But these machines were off the scale compared to my 717.
  
 Going back to my earlier point, the Stax amps have 100% mark up as does most commercial hi-fi products. There are builders who charge
 less than than, or build one yourself for parts cost only. So on that basis the 727 is technically a £900 amp with a £1800 price.
  
 On the pot, I got it wrong, my pot is a 41 step Acoustic-Dimension quad series attenuator, which is as straight through as you can get, not
a typical loss making trad pot. The use of resistors looses less sonically, it is well written about.
  
On the RCAs on Stax amps, they are very poorly made. They broke loose on my 323, and are mounted on weedy plastic boards.


----------



## greggf

You must feel awful having to drive a Ford or a VW instead of driving "The Car That Doug Made Next Door In His Basement Of Superior New Old Stock Parts That Make The Car So Special Compared To What Proles Drive."


----------



## Ali-Pacha

_*Everything that's excessive is insignificant*_
 Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord 






 Ali


----------



## astrostar59

Dude, listen to a good KGSShv build, then come back. That's what I did, and I seen (heard) there light.
  
 All the other talk is BS.


----------



## georgep

astrostar59 said:


> Jeeze, this is getting silly. Lets go back to basics. Have you actually heard this Modded 727 against a KGSShv off-board. I doubt you have.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


This is quite silly, you don't even know or understand what is in your own KGSSHV. You went from having a 48 stepped "pot" to a 41 stepped attentuator, Mundorf caps to Panasonics (which are good by the way), silver wiring to silver plated copper in only some parts of the amp. So other than the tantalum, which in checking your pics posted previously, appear to be used sparingly, you seem to have a standard KGSSHV with elevated current and what appears to be a nice ladder/stepped attenuator.

I never said or suggested I heard the two amps together. What I said was I had discussed the mods with someone who has heard both the extensively modded 727 and a KGSSHV (on board/ off board makes no difference). He is a well respected headfier, and I put a lot of stock in his view when he says that it brings it close to the level of of KGSSHV. KG has indicated as much as well in designing the mod. Why does this offend you so much? You should tell KG that he must be off his rocker because you have never heard a 727, a modded 727 or a heavily modded 727, but you have heard a 717, so it must be impossible.

And 1800 british pounds is obscene, I agree. But that does not assist your overpriced and 100% mark up argument when that is not the price in most other major markets (plus you do have access to price japan).

And I cannot speak to what you did to your 323, or whether your RCAs are the death-grip kind that like to rip RCAs out of amps, but that is unusal and I have never heard of any issues before you. Besides, your original point of contrast with your KGSSHV was the superiority of its XLR connectors - what is your problem with the Stax XLR connectors?

I am not saying that the KGSSHV amp does not sound amazing or that it is not better than the current production Stax amps. To my ears, it is superior to the 323, 727 and some of the out of production amps that I have heard, like the 717. But you aren't just saying that, you are saying stuff that is totally made up and shows you don't know what you are talking about. It really is perplexing.

But I must not know what I am talking about. I have only built two off-board KGSSHVs, one on-board, and my lowly DIY-T2. And I won't be selling my 727 any time soon even if in its present non-heavily modded state, it does not sound as good.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Someone is wrong on the internet, I presume 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ali


----------



## NoPants

astrostar59 said:


> Dude, listen to a good KGSShv build, then come back. That's what I did, and I seen (heard) there light.
> 
> All the other talk is BS.


 
 I've built a kgsshv and I'm on the cusp of completing my second, what are you trying to say?


----------



## bearFNF

'nuff said...


----------



## richard51

i have the smr-xh amp... is anyone know how to upgrade the external power supply? I dont want  a _"diy_" solution but i want to know if i can buy something more interesting than the standard power supply...what are the different option? thank for your time ...


----------



## richard51

is a power cord will be useful with the smr-xh stax amp ?


----------



## Earspeakers

richard51 said:


> is a power cord will be useful with the smr-xh stax amp ?


 

 Definitely. The amp doesn't sound good without power.


----------



## Rico613

earspeakers said:


> richard51 said:
> 
> 
> > is a power cord will be useful with the smr-xh stax amp ?
> ...


 

 I must agree with Earspeakers.  Power comes in handy with many amps out there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seriously, when you think about it, every electron driving a transducer and speaker (yes even electrostatics), has to come through a wall socket, power cord, power distributor, and fuse.  I found that upgrading those makes a difference if the rest of the setup can deliver.


----------



## Earspeakers

rico613 said:


> I must agree with Earspeakers.  Power comes in handy with many amps out there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Wonk! I've done those experiments too and found absolutely nada, plus there's zero theory* as to why electrons delivered through romex and aluminum HT wires and then through a pure copper sake-soaked power cord would make a zit of difference. To each his own 

* I'm a Physicist and Engineer


----------



## Rico613

> Wonk! I've done those experiments too and found absolutely nada, plus there's zero theory* as to why electrons delivered through romex and aluminum HT wires and then through a pure copper sake-soaked power cord would make a zit of difference. To each his own
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Zealot!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'd encourage people to do their own tests.


----------



## astrostar59

georgep said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > Jeeze, this is getting silly. Lets go back to basics. Have you actually heard this Modded 727 against a KGSShv off-board. I doubt you have.
> ...


 
 First point, it is recognised that the off-board KGSShv shifts more current and will sound different to the on-board (Kevin quote).
 Second point, the 717 is way behind my KGSShv. It is insane to say the 727 is close. The 727 is regarded by Spritzer to sound worse than the 717 FYI.
 Third, what is the sense in ripping out a weak 727 amp adding new parts and basically wrecking the warranty and risking blowing it up. There are high voltages, they can kill. Yes if a pro dies
 the mod like Kevin, but otherwise....
 Fourth point, the 727 costs £1800 in the UK. Price Japan is a grey import, has no officially warranty and the voltage is 110v. Makes sense to buy from them then?
  
 My post was corrected in half an hour as regards parts spec, and I got mixed up with another build. It don't change my view, the 727 is a weak amp that is over priced, then a major mod can make it into a nearly great amp, when you can have a really great amp (KGSShv) for the same money. 
  
 My advice to anyone wanting an amp that powers the 507s, 007s, 009s to their full potential, don't buy a production Stax amp - period. The phones are leading edge, the amps are NOT.
  
 That reminds me, I heard the 007t and that sounded even worse on the 009s. It is a crying shame there is not more access to Stat amps generally, demo's say it all, or better take it home fopr a few days. Talking to others and reading forums is only good to a point....


----------



## n3rdling

You're getting less credible with each post, just stop.


----------



## astrostar59

I see you have a Stax amp - not.


----------



## georgep

n3rdling said:


> You're getting less credible with each post, just stop.




This.

It really is getting embarrassing.


----------



## Earspeakers

rico613 said:


> Zealot!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Probably. Agree with you otherwise, if it tastes good then drink it.


----------



## astrostar59

So you got a Stax amp you listen to then? You are clearly recommending others to do the 727 mod. If you believe in it, why don't you have a Stax amp? Clearly you dig your own KGSShv, so why slag my opinions for suggesting buying a DIY KGSShv instead of ripping apart a 727.
  
 Are egos coming into this.... 
  
 I believe in my own ears, what I hear. 
  
 Besides, I found the Birgir thread about that mod, and he wasn't saying it was as good as a KGSShv, only better than it was originally. And the mod entailed ripping out glued on resistors and other fairly risky work for anyone other than a pro.


----------



## Rico613

earspeakers said:


> rico613 said:
> 
> 
> > Zealot!
> ...


----------



## georgep

astrostar59 said:


> So you got a Stax amp you listen to then? You are clearly recommending others to do the 727 mod. If you believe in it, why don't you have a Stax amp? Clearly you dig your own KGSShv, so why slag my opinions for suggesting buying a DIY KGSShv instead of ripping apart a 727.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I am assuming the above is directed towards me, but I am not entirely sure since a lot of your posts are difficult to follow.

I will try this more simply.

I said this before and am saying it again: I do not recommend people do the transistor mod, it is major surgery.

I said this before and I am saying it again: I own the 727, I have owned other Stax amps, I also have owned 2 KGSSHVs and still have one, I have owned a KGSS, and I also own a DIY-T2.

I never slagged opinions that people consider buying a KGSSHV instead of ripping apart a 727, just that you add so much made up stuff that your posts are misleading and wrong.

Yes, your ego does clearly appear to be coming into this. 

I am glad you found the Birgir thread about the mod, but that is not the transistor mod, that is the feedback mod. This mod does not bring the 727 to the level of a KGSSHV - no one ever said that it would. I am convinced you have trouble reading and that is why you post the stuff that you post. I don't believe the transister mod is fleshed out in a thread anywhere - just pm communications as far as I am aware.

There is nothing risky about the feedback mod - it is as easy as they come. I never soldered before making my first KGSSHV, and yes, there are people who would not be comfortable with this - they will not do the mod. But if you can or are able to find someone to do it for cheap, it is highly worthwhile and makes the 727 an excellent choice for people who do not live in the eurozone and who are unable to source it through other than local retail means. This simple mod, as Birgir stated in the thread I believe you referred to, gave the 727 "Stax Mafia approval".


----------



## astrostar59

> There is nothing risky about the feedback mod - it is as easy as they come. I never soldered before making my first KGSSHV, and yes, there are people who would not be comfortable with this - they will not do the mod. But if you can or are able to find someone to do it for cheap, it is highly worthwhile and makes the 727 an excellent choice for people who do not live in the eurozone and who are unable to source it through other than local retail means. This simple mod, as Birgir stated in the thread I believe you referred to, gave the 727 "Stax Mafia approval".


 
  
 Hang on, is this is the feedback mod that Birgir said made the 727 like (as good as) the 717. If so, the 717 is still way behind a 727, thus the 'easy' mod is kinda pointless. You can still buy or build a KGSShv for less and it will be a much better amp. 
  
 The transistor mod you are talking about is by your own admission radical, and not for a novice or none pro - am I correct? Then why do it or recommend it? If it gets the 727 close to a KGSShv why bother, just get a KGSShv - clean build - nice transformers, new PS, new boards etc, not some half used ripped up 727. Besides, such an amp could damage the (expensive) phones.
  
 I stand by my advice, get a KGSShv in that budget range, don't bother with any Stax amps, at least, not powering the 007s or 009s.


----------



## NoPants

Well in the interest of extracting something educational out of all this (there definitely isn't much to go around), what are the circuit differences between the kgsshv and the 727? I haven't had a chance to see the schematic myself, but I'd first guess they're more similar than not. 
  
 To set the record straight for those new to things, if you open up a modern stax amplifier there's nothing wrong with the innards. Some places where they outshine DIY efforts are in their use of MELF resistors and PCB card inserts. The 727 mod is straightforward, and stax was nice enough to leave feedback traces in there for you.
  
 There's no need to spread misinformed misinformation, misinformedly


----------



## NoPants

astrostar59 said:


> Hang on, is this is the feedback mod that Birgir said made the 727 like (as good as) the 717. If so, the 717 is still way behind a 727, thus the 'easy' mod is kinda pointless. You can still buy or build a KGSShv for less and it will be a much better amp.
> 
> The transistor mod you are talking about is by your own admission radical, and not for a novice or none pro - am I correct? Then why do it or recommend it? If it gets the 727 close to a KGSShv why bother, just get a KGSShv - clean build - nice transformers, new PS, new boards etc, not some half used ripped up 727. Besides, such an amp could damage the (expensive) phones.
> 
> I stand by my advice, get a KGSShv in that budget range, don't bother with any Stax amps, at least, not powering the 007s or 009s.


 
  
 You say this as if it's trivial to pay someone minimum wage to have a maxed out kgsshv built, like you can pick it up from the store. This isn't even touching upon the subject of commissioning a build from someone who is reputable enough not to botch the job. You're just as likely to damage the headphones from an HV or an 727 if things are done poorly.
  
 If you can commission an HV for the cost of a 727 please let the masses know. Until then you can't beat that modded unit at the current price, even if you discount the yen weakness.


----------



## georgep

astrostar59 said:


> .... The transistor mod you are talking about is by your own admission radical, and not for a novice or none pro - am I correct? Then why do it or recommend it? ...



 


You must be kidding. I just wrote in the post you quoted from: "I said this before and am saying it again: I do not recommend people do the transistor mod, it is major surgery."

Please start reading things properly. As I said, I think the reason you spout out so much misinformation is because you have difficulty reading.


----------



## astrostar59

I still say forget the Stax amps. Here they are £1800 for a 727. You can get a good KGSShv built for that.....
  
 Then there is the KGST, which I am told sounds great, but I confess to not have heard it yet.
 That uses really low cost tubes, so would be a good bet for tube lovers wanting to avoid tube
 replacement costs.
  
 That is kinda it in the sub £2k bracket for none stax amps (new). There are still some old KGSS headamps around
 if you look hard enough. 
  
 In my view, it is too easy to rock up and buy a Stax amp with the phones as a system. Newbies then get a system
 that is not taking their phones to a decent level. I have heard the 507s on my KGSShv and my older LNS and both scaled
 remarkably well. IMO Stax build great phones but the quality of their amps can be bettered for the same money.


----------



## georgep

Sure, instead of paying $3382 (the equivalent of me buying a 727 in your neck if the woods) for a 727, I would get a kgsshv first. That would be a no brainer. But buying a 727 for $1200-1500... that is a very different story.


----------



## arnaud

georgep said:


> Sure, instead of paying $3382 (the equivalent of me buying a 727 in your neck if the woods) for a 727, I would get a kgsshv first. That would be a no brainer. But buying a 727 for $1200-1500... that is a very different story.


 

 Indeed, in Japan, Stax amps are a better value proposition, even the TOTL.
 With the exchange rate ever worsening, US or even E.U. made boutique amps become even less accessible.
 We're talking 4-5x price difference with what we find locally, better be good products .
 Arnaud


----------



## greggf

Many pages ago, I think I went over this with astro.  It's hard to remember, it's like waves of nausea coming back and washing over you, ceaselessly.  But if the differences between stat amps - ANY stat amps - show up only at high listening volume levels, this entire subject is pointless, right?  I mean if you listen at low or normal sound levels.


----------



## NoPants

greggf said:


> Many pages ago, I think I went over this with astro.  It's hard to remember, it's like waves of nausea coming back and washing over you, ceaselessly.  But if the differences between stat amps - ANY stat amps - show up only at high listening volume levels, this entire subject is pointless, right?  I mean if you listen at low or normal sound levels.


 
  
 I wouldn't say there aren't differences, but obviously perception depends on the SPL.


----------



## greggf

OK, thanks!


----------



## NoPants

Just got my onboard KGSSHV working, so I figured I'd say...stuff
  
 setup, bracketed in order of decreasing importance
  
 2SA1968
 350V
 Wimas
 2SC4686
 BH power supply
 STN3960
 K170
 no servo installed (bought wrong footprint cap)
 ---------------------------
 Antek Transformers
 ---------------------------
 SILVER PLATED COPPER w/ TEFLON
 BLACK CASE
 BLACK CABLES
 RED CABLES
 PLASTIC STANDOFFS
 A FUSE THAT I FOUND ON THE FLOOR
 FURUTECH XLR JACKs
  
 Basically I hijacked my KGST power supply while I get some remaining parts for the 400V version. Using the O2 mk1
  
 soundstage is noticeably smaller than what I've been using as of recent (Megatron, KGST, BHSE) but it's not significant, or even a bad thing. A lot of sparkle in the treble, which is something I remember also being the case with the offboard version. It's a plus for the office (where I've been powering up and testing it) because the FR balance allows me to listen at lower volumes. 
  
 I don't know if the gain is higher or something (I forget) but it's louder than the other amplifiers I have at a given pot position.


----------



## David1961

I had the SRM-007t for 11 years and never had a problem with the running of it, however I was never happy with how it drove the SR-007mk1's I had along with that Stax amp, I was so unhappy that I didn't hesitate in using them both as part exchange for the source I now have.
I've since heard the SR-007mk1's with my BHSE ( using the stock mullard tubes ) and I was regretting letting the 007mk1's go until I started using the PH tubes with my BHSE driving the 009's I now have.
After hearing the BHSE and KGSShv, I'd never get another Stax amp.
Also in the UK ( AFAIK ) Stax gear can only be got via a retailer which they get from a distributor, both of which will probably add quite a bit to the cost of Stax gear.


----------



## realmassy

greggf said:


> Many pages ago, I think I went over this with astro.  It's hard to remember, it's like waves of nausea coming back and washing over you, ceaselessly.  But if the differences between stat amps - ANY stat amps - show up only at high listening volume levels, this entire subject is pointless, right?  I mean if you listen at low or normal sound levels.




Agree. It's funny because people keep mentioning every detail of the setup (source, amp, power cords, fuses, software player, even XLR sockets or toroids LOL) but there's no mention to the music used for comparison and average listening levels. And do people match them when comparing amps?
And to be honest the endless debate between STAX amps and 'boutique' amps is getting annoying, as if you can compare two products only on the base of the parts used.
Do you measure the quality of a restaurant only on the ingredients being used?


----------



## astrostar59

greggf said:


> Many pages ago, I think I went over this with astro.  It's hard to remember, it's like waves of nausea coming back and washing over you, ceaselessly.  But if the differences between stat amps - ANY stat amps - show up only at high listening volume levels, this entire subject is pointless, right?  I mean if you listen at low or normal sound levels.


 
 I disagree. I have the 717 and at any levels it is miles behind my KGSShv. It is well known in speaker amps, particularly tube SET amps, that they sound remarkable at low volumes as well as higher volumes. The 717 is sort of ok at low levels, but is no way as good on SQ as my KGSShv. Then as you rack up the volume to normal - higher levels we are presented with yet another problem -  it runs out of steam very quickly and the dynamics get compressed and the sound slows down, becomes muchy. So I don't agree, at ANY volumes the Stax amps are not up to scratch on an 007 or 009 as compared to other offerings.
  
 In response to another post, the PriceJapan thing is ok for US? In the UK we need 230v so possible for us.


----------



## astrostar59

Hi realmassy
 I agree with you, and I did listen to the EXACT SAME TRACKS WITH THE SAME SYSTEM FRONT TO BACK FOR 4 MONTHS SOLID. I found my KGSShv blew my Stax 717 out of the water - no contest. However these guys who are attacking me on this - well bring it on!
  
 It is washing over me as utter Bull, it is in the listening that counts, as this hobby should always be. Yes, talk to others, but folk here who make claims and have not done a true A / B of their Stax amp v a KGSShv at home - same music. And meets don't count - as there is always too many variables and exterior noise.
  
 Anyway, haven't you bought your tube amp because it sounds better than a Stax amp?
  
 I say it again, Stax headphones, particularly the 007 and 009s are superb pieces of equipment, and the Stax amps are holding them back, like their sipping drops of fuel instead of pedal to the metal.


----------



## milosz

rossliew said:


> Where can one find a decently built T2 for sale?


 
 I've never seen one for sale.  I would expect the price would be over $10,000  for a well made DIY T2- the parts alone cost a ton-


----------



## astrostar59

I would talk to Kevin G or Birgir. I believe Kevin recently built a working 2 box T2.
  
 The problem I think you may have (that is if you are serious about buying such an amp) is the heat problems
 and ongoing reliability issues. Stax dropped the T2 for those reasons and it nearly made then go bankrupt.
  
 IMO it would be simpler and not far behind as regards SQ to buy a new BHSE from Justin or commission a KGSShv
 off-board. With your budget, you could build a superb example.


----------



## georgep

astrostar59 said:


> I would talk to Kevin G or Birgir. I believe Kevin recently built a working 2 box T2.
> 
> The problem I think you may have (that is if you are serious about buying such an amp) is the heat problems
> and ongoing reliability issues. Stax dropped the T2 for those reasons and it nearly made then go bankrupt.
> ...


 
  
 Just to be clear, there is no comparison between a KGSSHV and a DIY-T2. To use your hyperbolic approach, "it was like pulling cotton out of my ears".
  
 Look, "dude", I get it. You have a very very nice KGSSHV and you want to believe it is the best of the best, and trouncing other options makes you feel better. I am just glad you don't have a T2 as the thread would be flooded with comments like "just get a T2, the bhse is utter crap in comparison", or "I had a KGSSHV before my T2, but now I see the KGSSHV is so clearly flawed, you might as well get a Stax amp", and so on and so on.


----------



## kevin gilmore

I finished my T2 almost exactly 5 years ago. There are 22 out there with my chassis.
  
 There is another run of chassis from someone else, may or may not be issues
 with that one, I'm not keeping track.
  
 Someone I know well will be producing a run of about 10 with newer parts.
 And incorporating all that we have learned in 5+ years on the T2.
 Board files and schematics in the usual places if you want to build yourself.
  
 Its a bunch of work.


----------



## georgep

kevin gilmore said:


> I finished my T2 almost exactly 5 years ago. There are 22 out there with my chassis.
> 
> ....
> 
> Someone I know well will be producing a run of about 10 with newer parts...


 
  
 Stampede.... at least for those with the cash....


----------



## astrostar59

Look dude, you are getting this all mixed up in your silly head. I said to the original poster that for the price he has i.e. 727 budget, he can get better SQ with a KGSShv.
 That is fact.
  
 I don't intend ever buying a T2, nor do I lust after one. If I had one I would definitely not be saying the BHSE or the KGSShv is crap.
 I listen and make my own views public. You or others can use that, I don't really care either way.
  
 My view on Stax amps is they are over sold with the headphones, and thus regular folk don't get to hear what their 007s or 009s, or even the 507s are capable of.
  
 The T2 is in another price bracket, so not relevant to my discussion or the original poster. Clearly it is YOU who think the T2 is the best thing in the world and everyone should have one.
  
 BTW I think the BHSE is a fabulous amp, so I would NEVER slag it off, you got that wrong mate.


----------



## paradoxper

I'll only interject here that Geoff was building the HV for a great price. A standard build ran around $2400 (which is what the KGST is going for.) Further, he's no longer doing HV runs. So I'd say good luck finding a HV built for that price. More than that, good luck finding a HV builder in general.
  
 The problem Astro is your hyperbole and overblown comments. The 727 modded could be a great thing if you can't find a builder or stand the possible long wait time,
 or just want a smaller footprint that 727 could provide. Yes, there are better amps, some better values, that doesn't make those other "lesser" amps worthless as you imply.


----------



## VandyMan

astrostar59 said:


> I said to the original poster that for the price he has i.e. 727 budget, he can get better SQ with a KGSShv.
> That is fact.


 
  
 Since I'm the one who originally asked about using a modded 727ii w/ 009s, let me correct you. I purchased a used 727ii w/ the feedback mod for $1,300. Someone offered to build me a KGSS for $2,100. I gather that the KGSShv costs quite a bit more.
  
 So, I could have had a KGSS for only a little more than the retail price of an unmodded 727ii, but NOT a KGSShv. Plus, I would have had to wait for the KGSS to be built and would not have a traditional warranty. Additionally, the builder was not in the USA, so there would have been shipping changes, etc. Your math may be correct for UK pricing for those paying retail, but it is not true in other regions or for those who buy on the used market.


----------



## georgep

vandyman said:


> Since I'm the one who originally asked about using a modded 727ii w/ 009s, let me correct you. I purchased a used 727ii w/ the feedback mod for $1,300. Someone offered to build me a KGSS for $2,100. I gather that the KGSShv costs quite a bit more.
> 
> So, I could have had a KGSS for only a little more than the retail price of an unmodded 727ii, but NOT a KGSShv. Plus, I would have had to wait for the KGSS to be built and would not have a traditional warranty. Additionally, the builder was not in the USA, so there would have been shipping changes, etc. Your math may be correct for UK pricing for those paying retail, but it is not true in other regions or for those who buy on the used market.


 
  
 This, and what paradoxper set out.
  
 Plus, I would say the feedback mod brings the 727 to the level of the original KGSS - for less money. It does not bring it to the level of the KGSSHV, but then again, the KGSSHV is in a completely different price bracket for most people. Just like the T2 is in a completely different price bracket for people who bought a BHSE with RK50.
  
 Astro, nothing you ever said was relevant to the original poster, as he just confirmed. Plus what really happened was you flew off with your hyperbole when n3rdling mentioned the transistor mod - saying how Stax amps are made with garbage parts, and how it defied reality to mod the 727 to approach the KGSSHV - this threatened your reality for some reason. On this, you were not just talking about your subjective perception - you were speaking out of your posterior.
  
 And I don't think everyone should have a T2 - but I do think I should have one (or perhaps two). And I don't stand alone on the placement of the T2 in the hierarchy of stat amps.


----------



## VandyMan

georgep said:


> Astro, nothing you ever said was relevant to the original poster, as he just confirmed.


 
  
 Well, I did ask for opinions, so I think him for sharing his original comments even though I did not find his arguments  convincing.


----------



## astrostar59

> Astro, nothing you ever said was relevant to the original poster, as he just confirmed. Plus what really happened was you flew off with your hyperbole when n3rdling mentioned the transistor mod - saying how Stax amps are made with garbage parts, and how it defied reality to mod the 727 to approach the KGSSHV - this threatened your reality for some reason. On this, you were not just talking about your subjective perception - you were speaking out of your posterior.


 
 Fair enough, the original poster had already bought a USED 727 and was in the USA. Pity he didn't find a USED KGSShv. Thing is, a used and modded 727 has no warranty either. I read from Birgir that the modded 727 is basically the same SQ as the older 717 (which I still have), so I can say it won't be so hot with either the 007s or 009s and not even close to a KGSShv.
  
 I speak for the European market, and the 727 is the same price as a good DIY KGSShv. Even you can see my point on that. Stax amps are overpriced v the DIY market. A KGST can be had for less.
 PriceJapan is out for the amps, as the voltage is wrong for us.
  
 What gets me hotted up, is the amount of naive posts from people who think Stax amps are the only way to go. It comes down to the lack of getting to hear the real alternatives and fear of DIY or buying from a builder. If more folk heard the alternatives, the DIY amps may not be so hard to come by.
  
 ​I see it as insane to go to all the trouble of modding a 727 to get 'close' to a KGSShv. I prefer a new build or new amp, not a ripped up unit. The 009s are 3.5k here, I don't want to damage them.


----------



## astrostar59

I am not sure about the amount of DIYer's out there, so I take you advice on that Paradoxper. My point is the 717 I have is way behind, and not giving the 007s or 009s anywhere near their potential. It is a shame that more alternatives aren't readily available. I have mates in the UK who had Stax amps for their 007s and 009s. And like me, they didn't hear the difference until they got their hands on alternative amps to the Stax offerings.
  
 If there was a really great Stax amp that was as good as the KGSShv for example, I reckon more folk would take the plunge and buy the 007s or 009s. With the LCDs and HD800s for example, there are so many good amp commercially available.it is a more convincing offering in a hifi store. Realistically Stax dealers can't sell the 009s partnered with the current amps IMO - a 3.5k world beating headphone with a 727? 
  
 I have bought 4 Stax amps over the years, I they are either sold them or they are gathering dust....


----------



## greggf

Well.


----------



## georgep

Just amazing.
  
 My lesson is to stop arguing with fools... I just hope others can see through the garbage.


----------



## VandyMan

astrostar59 said:


> Fair enough, the original poster had already bought a USED 727 and was in the USA. Pity he didn't find a USED KGSShv.


 
  
 It is not a pity. I got a great deal on a very good amp. Besides that, getting a good used KGS-anything takes patience and luck. Not that many were ever made, they don't get sold that often, and they usually sell fast, if fairly priced. The whole point was to get something very good right now and save money so that I can get a TOL amp in the future (as I said in my original post). I don't have my 009s yet, but I've heard the 727ii amp and am quite happy. I happen to have also heard the BHSE on several occasions, so I have a good idea what the best sounds like. We are talking degrees here, not night and day differences.
  
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> What gets me hotted up, is the amount of naive posts from people who think Stax amps are the only way to go.



  
 I've read most of this topic and also exchanged mails with a bunch of people to get advice. Not one person ever said anything like that. Quite the opposite, in fact. I'm really not sure why you are "hotted up." (Is that a Britishism? I kinda like it.)


----------



## bearFNF

Wow, a lot of posts to skip over that last few days. What a waste of space...
  
 On another note, any new news/rumors of the "new" amps being worked on? KG?


----------



## NoPants

refreshing the t2
electrostatic circlotron 
kgsshv with silicon carbide outputs


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## bearFNF

It that the list?  I think it was the circlotron that I had heard about.


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## NoPants

Were you expecting more? those are all the major projects that I'm aware of but I'm not part of the mafia


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## bearFNF

No not really. Just curious.


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## lojay

Wow. I was searching for the Stax SRM T2 and found a broken T2 sold by auction on Yahoo Japan last month: http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w114872340. Wonder if it is a head-fier who bought this?


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## Hun7er

> Wow, a lot of posts to skip over that last few days. What a waste of space...
> 
> On another note, any new news/rumors of the "new" amps being worked on? KG?


 
  
 There is a new version of the Eddie Current Electra with 300b expected to 2015


----------



## NoPants

Does that mean anything in the context of electrostatic headphones?


----------



## Hun7er

I answer on bearFNF message and edited my previous message.


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## AnakChan

lojay said:


> Wow. I was searching for the Stax SRM T2 and found a broken T2 sold by auction on Yahoo Japan last month: http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w114872340. Wonder if it is a head-fier who bought this?


If you translate the title carefully, that T2 is listed as "junk" and therefore buyer has to repair it even (I.e. Not functioning properly). I believe the description (or Q&A to the seller) that Stax won't repair it either...so buyer has to find his own specialist to fix it.

The last -working- 2nd hand T2 went for ¥801,000 (Still a "reasonable" $6600...comparable to a new BHSe price).

http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w113384723


----------



## lojay

anakchan said:


> If you translate the title carefully, that T2 is listed as "junk" and therefore buyer has to repair it even (I.e. Not functioning properly). I believe the description (or Q&A to the seller) that Stax won't repair it either...so buyer has to find his own specialist to fix it.
> 
> The last -working- 2nd hand T2 went for ¥801,000 (Still a "reasonable" $6600...comparable to a new BHSe price).
> 
> http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w113384723




Yes I was aware of that, hence I said "broken T2" in my post. If you read the post there is a link to a pdf document that says Stax no longer provides repairs to the T2. That was what the auction entry meant when it says even Stax will not repair it.

That previous second hand T2 seems like an excellent deal for such a legendary amp, but the lack of technical support and repair is worrying.


----------



## wink

Quotearadoxper 





> So I'd say good luck finding a HV built for that price. More than that, good luck finding a HV builder in general.


 
 There are a few KGSSHV & KGST in the for sale forums if you look carefully
  
 Also Spritzer/Birgir has some for sale on his site. link below:-
  
 http://mjolnir-audio.com/?page_id=14


----------



## astrostar59

I have seen some for sale periodically on the other site as well. I would recommend talking to Birgir at any rate, he often has pre-built amps he may sell on if you ask the right questions. I would love to build some KGSShv myself. I have build a few amp kits and DACs. But the casework would bug me, I would not enjoy that bit so much. Off the shelf cases look a bit naff. It would be great to have a lathe to make my own cases for sure.
  
 If anyone is really serious, they could put up a post asking if anyone is selling. There are many folk on here with so much gear, you might get lucky.


----------



## Axel

Hey, an LCD3->Stax question:
  
 Enjoying my lovely pair of LCD3s with my ifi amplifier, while reading the jaw-dropping reviews about the Stax SR-009, created an itch...
  
 I can get a good deal on the SR-009 (close to japan price), and thought of combining the Woo audio WEE with a cheap (~$1000) s/h tube integrated amplifier (EL84 or similar).
 Will I be able to get the same silky smooth sound from this combination compared to the LCD3s? Or am I better off upgrading my dedicated headphones amp for my LCD3s (with a Leben/Woo WA22/Woo WA6SE)?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Axel

rhamnetin said:


> I have heard the LCD-3 and SR-009 at their best, but I don't know how it sounds with the WEE + a cheap integrated amp.  I will say that at their best, the SR-009 does not have the same kind of relaxed, laid back feel that the LCD-3 has.  You're more likely to get this kind of sound with the Stax SR-007Mk1 paired with the right amplifier (on the HeadAmp BHSE the SR-007Mk1 sounds far more neutral than the LCD-3, just slightly laid back in certain treble regions at best but I'm going off memory).
> 
> Both the SR-007 and SR-009 sound much more natural to me than the LCD-3.  They're just so much more transparent, they really are unbelievable especially the SR-009.  Even though its sound signature isn't similar to the LCD-3's, I wouldn't be surprised if a well driven one blows your socks off.


 
  
 So, in fact, you're saying the SR-007 is more laid back and easy-on-the-ear than the SR-009?
 If that's the case, maybe I should try going for the SR-007.
 You're mentioning the SR-007Mk1, what about the current incarnation, the SR-007A - how different is it from the Mk1?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Rhamnetin

axel said:


> So, in fact, you're saying the SR-007 is more laid back and easy-on-the-ear than the SR-009?
> If that's the case, maybe I should try going for the SR-007.
> You're mentioning the SR-007Mk1, what about the current incarnation, the SR-007A - how different is it from the Mk1?
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 I do consider the SR-007Mk1 to be slightly laid back in the treble region compared to the SR-009. Not that I'd ever call the SR-009 hard on the ears and overly aggressive or forward, it strikes me as the perfect neutral middle ground.  There seem to be two newer versions of the SR-007, noted by Tyll.
  


> SR-007A/SR-007Mk2 - S/N SZ2-xxxx, Stax change the earpads, how they sit and introduce a port to the earcups. Sound is a mixed bag depending on fit but can be fixed to sound pretty much like the Mk1.
> 
> SR-007A/SR-007Mk2 - S/N SZ3-xxxx, often called the Mk2.5, Stax supposedly change the diaphragm which results in a much more forward sound signature.


 
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-stax-sr-007
 
I have yet to hear those two newer revisions, but the "Mk2.5" seems to be almost the opposite of what you want.  The Mk1 is the highest regarded version overall, I see a lot of people in agreement with the impressions listed here.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13#user_SR007MKI
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13#user_SR007MKII


----------



## Rico613

axel said:


> Hey, an LCD3->Stax question:
> 
> Enjoying my lovely pair of LCD3s with my ifi amplifier, while reading the jaw-dropping reviews about the Stax SR-009, created an itch...
> 
> ...


 

 I'd put the money into the dynamic setup supporting the LCD-3.  (Silver dragon cable, new amp, DAC, power supply, etc.)   It's a fabulous headphone where as the SR009 is an excellent headphone if driven with the right high-end amp.  Even then I'm not sure electrostatics have the kind of dynamic response and musicality of a good tube amp with LCD-3's.  Suggest you find a way to listen to the STAX before taking the plunge.


----------



## NoPants

axel said:


> Hey, an LCD3->Stax question:
> 
> Enjoying my lovely pair of LCD3s with my ifi amplifier, while reading the jaw-dropping reviews about the Stax SR-009, created an itch...
> 
> ...


 
  
 For the price of the energizer and integrated amplifier you can just buy the 323s or the 727, I wouldn't recommend using dynamic amplification for this.


----------



## Axel

rico613 said:


> I'd put the money into the dynamic setup supporting the LCD-3.  (Silver dragon cable, new amp, DAC, power supply, etc.)   It's a fabulous headphone where as the SR009 is an excellent headphone if driven with the right high-end amp.  Even then I'm not sure electrostatics have the kind of dynamic response and musicality of a good tube amp with LCD-3's.  Suggest you find a way to listen to the STAX before taking the plunge.


 
 Interesting.
 It seems that most regard the SR-009 the current best in the world.
 What do you think I'll miss with the SR-009? Musicality? Dynamic range?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Axel

nopants said:


> For the price of the energizer and integrated amplifier you can just buy the 323s or the 727, I wouldn't recommend using dynamic amplification for this.


 
 I've read that those will sound very lackluster compared to the WEE with a speakers amp.
 Do you think the SR-009/007 with the 323/727 will beat my LCD3 setup? Is it a worthy investment?


----------



## NoPants

it's what you want, you're outlining spending a ton of money with which you could just buy a dedicated electrostatic amplifier. 323s is a good enough intro amp that drives all the models. The 009 will be easier to drive than the 007. 727 is a good step up that's around the price of the amount you specified for an integrated. There's not much of a discussion to be had, the dedicated amplifiers are just better
  
 I've only used the LCD2 with a beta22 and krell ksa5, I wasn't impressed


----------



## Moonhead

Axel.. 

You May Want to listen to 007, they Should be somewhat similar to the LCD3.

009 dont Sound anything like LCD3, so you May not like Them that much. 

I for one are letting My 009 go to purchase some 007.


----------



## cucera

moonhead said:


> Axel..
> 
> You May Want to listen to 007, they Should be somewhat similar to the LCD3.
> 
> ...




Total agreement, the SR-009 is on the BHSE the King of classical and the SR-007 MK1 rules with Rock/pop.


----------



## Earspeakers

cucera said:


> Total agreement, the SR-009 is on the BHSE the King of classical and the SR-007 MK1 rules with Rock/pop.



 


Well good, I have a BHSE on order and will get the 009's, and all I listen to is classical music.


----------



## David1961

Some of the best sounding songs I have in my collection are by German band Rammstien, and that's with my 009/ BHSE. I once had the SR-007mk1's but I now don't miss them one bit.


----------



## Rossliew

@David1961 , did you find the 007s to be darker sounding and losing that extra bit of soundstage width, not to mention the airiness as a result of a stronger treble extension? I thought Stax were pretty much the kings of "out-of-yet-hear" listening experience on headphones but my 007s don't seem to sound as such.


----------



## Lan647

axel said:


> Interesting.
> It seems that most regard the SR-009 the current best in the world.
> What do you think I'll miss with the SR-009? Musicality? Dynamic range?
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 The LCD-3 is a bit "creamier" and has heftier, richer bass. The SR-009 is certainly better technically though, as are most of the STAX electrostats compared to the "competition". More open and clear sounding above all. 
  
 If you like the LCD-3s sound but want an upgrade without spending huge $$$ I would go with SR-007 mk1 and 323s. I personally prefer the SR-007 to the SR-009. It's a more authentic, more involving sound.


----------



## David1961

rossliew said:


> @David1961
> , did you find the 007s to be darker sounding and losing that extra bit of soundstage width, not to mention the airiness as a result of a stronger treble extension? I thought Stax were pretty much the kings of "out-of-yet-hear" listening experience on headphones but my 007s don't seem to sound as such.




I haven't owned the SR-007mk1's since 2011, but at the time I had them they were driven by the SRM-007t I also owned.
To what I recall they did sound quite dark, and their soundstage was OK, but nothing like say the HD-800's.
The best thing I did like about the mk1's was their airiness, but I very much disliked the veiled SQ,

In 2012 I got to hear the 007mk1's with my BHSE and that amp turned them into completely diiferent 
Earspeakers.

I could go on but I've mentioned my thoughts between the 007mk1's / mk'2 and 009's driven by the BHSE probably too many times, so I don't want to bore anyone with them again.


----------



## Rossliew

david1961 said:


> I haven't owned the SR-007mk1's since 2011, but at the time I had them they were driven by the SRM-007t I also owned.
> To what I recall they did sound quite dark, and their soundstage was OK, but nothing like say the HD-800's.
> The best thing I did like about the mk1's was their airiness, but I very much disliked the veiled SQ,
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the impressions - sorts of validates my own listening experience with them. Currently listening with the KGST and I'm sure this amp has sufficient muscle to power them but yes, they still sound veiled. I am now thinking if the 009s would fare better. I love the soundstage of the HD800s and i had believed the Staxes to equal if not better the 800s.


----------



## Axel

lan647 said:


> The LCD-3 is a bit "creamier" and has heftier, richer bass. The SR-009 is certainly better technically though, as are most of the STAX electrostats compared to the "competition". More open and clear sounding above all.
> 
> If you like the LCD-3s sound but want an upgrade without spending huge $$$ I would go with SR-007 mk1 and 323s. I personally prefer the SR-007 to the SR-009. It's a more authentic, more involving sound.


 
  
 I see, thanks! Sounds like the SR-007 is more in the right direction.
 As the SR-007 is cheaper (considerably) than the SR-009, I could spend a bit more on an amplifier, say ~$2000-$2500 - what should be on my 'wish list' for this budget (for the SR-007)?


----------



## Lan647

axel said:


> I see, thanks! Sounds like the SR-007 is more in the right direction.
> As the SR-007 is cheaper (considerably) than the SR-009, I could spend a bit more on an amplifier, say ~$2000-$2500 - what should be on my 'wish list' for this budget (for the SR-007)?


 

 You'll have to ask someone else that question as I've really just heard the SR-007 with stock and modified (some heavily) STAX amps. I can tell you though that the STAX tube amps in stock form just won't cut it in terms of power supply for the 007 and the 727II in stock form is not too great, so if you want to spend the higher $$$ and modding is out of the question you probably have to look at third-party amps or DIY. Quite a few around here who have experience with those, luckily.


----------



## Rossliew

I have the KGST which i believe has sufficient grunt to power the 007s properly. Music is fast and punchy through the 007s but soundstage width is a tad too small for my taste. But i qualify this as my source is not balanced, only the Bifrost Uber at this moment. Once the Gungnir arrives and I can listen fully balanced, i hope to have more impressions on the pairing.


----------



## Rico613

axel said:


> nopants said:
> 
> 
> > For the price of the energizer and integrated amplifier you can just buy the 323s or the 727, I wouldn't recommend using dynamic amplification for this.
> ...


 

 Recently, I experimented with my 009's, a Wee, and Cavalli LL2T.  I'd been using LCD-3F's (silver dragon) on the EC445 (an all tube amp) and the combination sounds fabulous.   When I tried the SR009 on the Wee driven by the EC445 the sound was more detailed and had the crisp somewhat harsh sound on treble frequencies.  It didn't have any of the warm lush tones of my LCD-3F's and it was somewhat uneven and muddled across the response curve.  
  
 The 009's sounded great on the Cavalli LL2T.   Very clear, detailed, great sound stage, and some warmth from the tube drivers.  I would consider the LL2T to be the Ferrari of headphone amps.  I simply heard instrumentation I'd never heard before.  It is a great amp.  But overall the LCD'3F's (silver dragon) with the EC445, (EML 45 Mesh Plate output tubes), had more warmth and emotion.  I'm still seriously considering the Cavalli 2T for my stats amp, or maybe EC Electra.  I was promised my BHSE for the comparison, but it didn't show up . . .


----------



## TheAttorney

After 3 nights with my new 009s, I already have a strong preference, but  I've stopped comparing with my 007 mk1s on BHSE now and will just enjoy listening to music for an extended period (rather like the 3-week comments made earlier). But here are some initial observations:
  

Comparing 007/009 at home showed up much stronger and varied differences than I had heard at other times at meets etc - maybe not so much a surprise.
These 009s pads have really soft and smooth leather, much like my brown 007 pads. All 009s (and recent black 007s) I had previously tried had much stiffer leather.
The 009s clamp more firmly on my head than the 007 - the latter having already been adjusted to be a light fit. 
Possibly because of the above 2 points, my right (larger) ear just slightly touches the inside grill, which is not nice, but I can live with it. Question: can the (rather cheap feeling) plastic top frame be safely bent out slightly to give a less clampy fit?
Calling the 009s bright and the 007s dark is a gross oversimplification of these two 'phones. I wouldn't call the 009s bright at all, but they are more "open" at a number of levels. There's forum talk that current 009s are less bright than earlier versions, although no one knows if this is a gradual change over the years, or one or two step changes along the way. Whatever, any concerns I may have had about wanting to tilt the 009 treble down (and bass up) are completely quashed. Thet are just very neutral. My 009s are about as recent as they can be, as the UK importer has been waiting weeks for the latest batch to be built.
  
 No Attorney review would be complete without some level of angst or complication ) and so it proved again:
 When I first listened to the 009s, after they had warmed up a few hours after their travels, their sound signature had one aspect that was disconcerting, exemplified by: Female voices sounded both muffled and with a peaky colouration, resulting in an effect miles from "a real person is singing live directly to me" sensation I get with my 007s on the same tracks. At this point I was checking the returns policy. But when I came back to them later that evening, that colouration had gone. Was this burn-in or imagination? Whatever,  I'll report back in a few weeks time.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks for the impressions. Can i ask if the 009's soundstage is as out-of-the-head as a HD800?


----------



## Moonhead

009 soundstage is not that enormous as HD800, but to my ears a lot more natural or lifelike if you will.
009 sounds more natural all around and a lot more versatile playing almost every genre great, sadly the same can't be said about HD800.
I can see the similarities between the two being very revealing and giving you lots of details, but then again they present the music so very different.


----------



## astrostar59

Hmm, I want to give advice on this, as I have been through exactly this process with my 717 and hearing the 007t then a KGSShv and BHSE with booth the 007s and 009s.
 If you want my view, PM me, I don't post public here anymore, there are to many egos and morons to make it worth the flack.....


----------



## astrostar59

Hi TheAttorney.
  
 I am glad you haver the 009s running. A lucky man, a BHSE and the 009s.
  
 Don't worry about the first few days. There are almost no posts about run ins, but I DID notice my new UK sourced 009s got faster and bassier after a week or so. I ran them in with some bass heavy trance tracks. It is a stretched transducer, so it would make sense it will open up.
  
 What I did for my comparisons, I listened to about 10 tracks I knew really well and that were great recordings, a spread of female vocals (Cranberries, Beyonce), Orchestral, and Trance (Alex Morphe) on my 007s for a week. Then I used the 009s, and right away I heard new things, more detail, more dynamics, more low end bass, more realism. I tend to listen at the higher end of the volume range, at it becomes more obvious to hear the differences. It was easier to hike up the volume, so be careful.
  
 After a couple of weeks, I went back to my 007s, and it sounded veiled, more distant and less alive somehow. The ears can trick you, and you can get used to the sound, i.e. the improvement. Going back to the 007s makes it more obvious. Anyway, it seemed to work for me, might not for everyone.
  
 I sold my 007s the following week.


----------



## Rhamnetin

axel said:


> I see, thanks! Sounds like the SR-007 is more in the right direction.
> As the SR-007 is cheaper (considerably) than the SR-009, I could spend a bit more on an amplifier, say ~$2000-$2500 - what should be on my 'wish list' for this budget (for the SR-007)?


 
  
 I recommend focusing on Kevin Gilmore's amps and other custom built ones.


----------



## Moonhead

+1 

http://mjolnir-audio.com/?page_id=14


----------



## georgep

axel said:


> I see, thanks! Sounds like the SR-007 is more in the right direction.
> As the SR-007 is cheaper (considerably) than the SR-009, I could spend a bit more on an amplifier, say ~$2000-$2500 - what should be on my 'wish list' for this budget (for the SR-007)?




At your stated budget, your best bang for the buck would be a used KGSSHV or a KGST. I can't comment on other amps in that price range. 

For the 007, are you getting a mk1, mk2 or mk2.5? All three are different ( and some would say there are even 3 iterations of the mk1).


----------



## Hun7er

Axel I have an Spritzer KGST for sell if you want


----------



## Axel

georgep said:


> At your stated budget, your best bang for the buck would be a used KGSSHV or a KGST. I can't comment on other amps in that price range.
> 
> For the 007, are you getting a mk1, mk2 or mk2.5? All three are different ( and some would say there are even 3 iterations of the mk1).



Thanks!
Regarding the 007 version, I was thinking of buying a new (which means mk2.5?), I'm less enthusiastic of digging a second hand model and in general prefer buying new with headphones (amps are a different story...).


----------



## Rhamnetin

axel said:


> Thanks!
> Regarding the 007 version, I was thinking of buying a new (which means mk2.5?), I'm less enthusiastic of digging a second hand model and in general prefer buying new with headphones (amps are a different story...).


 
  
 I'm guessing there's no way for you to audition an SR-007?  The Mk2.5 is said to be forward, compared to the more laid back LCD-3.


----------



## Jones Bob

theattorney said:


> [*] The 009s clamp more firmly on my head than the 007 - the latter having already been adjusted to be a light fit.
> [*] Possibly because of the above 2 points, my right (larger) ear just slightly touches the inside grill, which is not nice, but I can live with it. Question: can the (rather cheap feeling) plastic top frame be safely bent out slightly to give a less clampy fit?




Yes you can bend the SR-009 arc to get less clamping force. Just don't try to bend too much at one time. I found the best acoustic fit with a very light clamp. Lifting or compressing the pads 1/8" and the bass diminishes. But when it is right, I do not miss my LCD-3F bass. You may find differently adjusting to your own head/ears.


----------



## NoPants

adjusting for comfort is usually the best known method for getting the best performance out of the 007s, I don't expect it to be much different for the 009s.


----------



## Axel

rhamnetin said:


> I'm guessing there's no way for you to audition an SR-007?  The Mk2.5 is said to be forward, compared to the more laid back LCD-3.


 
 Unfortunately, no. The local dealer does not hold the top Stax models in demo/stock.
  
 I could live with forward, as long as it will be smooth sounding, musical and will not 'sting' my ears with its treble.
 How much different is it compared to the Mk1? Is it night-and-day or subtle?


----------



## realmassy

My head is small and initially I was wearing the 009 very tightly, i think the first or the second notch on the band. Then I tried to wear them loosily (they are almost hanging over my ears) and I found out they sound even better, at least to my ears: the midrange is particularly smooth and liquid, although you loose a bit of pinpoint accuracy. And they are obviously more comfortable to wear, I don't feel the clamp at all.


----------



## cucera

axel said:


> Unfortunately, no. The local dealer does not hold the top Stax models in demo/stock.
> 
> I could live with forward, as long as it will be smooth sounding, musical and will not 'sting' my ears with its treble.
> How much different is it compared to the Mk1? Is it night-and-day or subtle?




Well I guess it is subtile for most people but night and day for extreme MK1 fanboys like me.

look at the graph differences here and they will tell you much.

MK 2.5
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR007SZ31576.pdf

MK1 late Version
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR007.pdf


----------



## georgep

Even the sz2 MK2 (the earlier non 2.5) is very different. It is still a top of the line headphone, but you immediately notice the slightly flabbier bass and the top end is not as smooth. For the sz2, this can be cured with the port mod (and better still with mk1 earpad springs). I have never heard the 2.5.


----------



## NoPants

Those graphs probably make the problem seem worse than it really is, but I've only heard two versions of the mk1


----------



## Lan647

axel said:


> Unfortunately, no. The local dealer does not hold the top Stax models in demo/stock.
> 
> I could live with forward, as long as it will be smooth sounding, musical and will not 'sting' my ears with its treble.
> How much different is it compared to the Mk1? Is it night-and-day or subtle?


 

 It's not subtle. Even when you take away the very noticeable midbass-hump that it has (can be fixed by covering the ports in the membrane that are there to prevent vacuum) the mk2,5 is a much more forward sounding headphone. I like it though (with the port mod), but I still prefer the more laid-back mk1 that also has slightly better bass extension. As I understand it, the japanese mk2 version (the silver one) is much more similar to the mk1. Still have to do the port mod though.


----------



## TheAttorney

jones bob said:


> Yes you can bend the SR-009 arc to get less clamping force. Just don't try to bend too much at one time. I found the best acoustic fit with a very light clamp. Lifting or compressing the pads 1/8" and the bass diminishes. But when it is right, I do not miss my LCD-3F bass. You may find differently adjusting to your own head/ears.


 
 Very helpful. Thank you.
 Bending just a bit at a time does the trick without resuting in any obvious stress to the plastic. It doesn't take much to reduce the clamping effect. Can't take this too far, as the 009s seem to wobble more than my 007s when lightly clamped - heavy metal headbanging is out of the question )


----------



## barid

cucera said:


> Well I guess it is subtile for most people but night and day for extreme MK1 fanboys like me.
> 
> look at the graph differences here and they will tell you much.
> 
> ...


 

 I've had both the mk1 and mk2.5.  I didn't think the mk2.5 was bad, but to me it actually felt more like it was trying to be a LCD with worse bass (of the vice versa)...the mk1 I still own and do prefer quite a bit. 
  
 Has Stax ever gave a reason for the 'new' sound of the 007?  Would be kind of cool if they started producing the mk1 voicing again, though I suppose they're onto the 009 now.


----------



## arnaud

barid said:


> Has Stax ever gave a reason for the 'new' sound of the 007?  Would be kind of cool if they started producing the mk1 voicing again, though I suppose they're onto the 009 now.


 
  
 My gut feeling was that they wanted a more lively sound so snap out more when paired with Stax amps (e.g. 100% of the configurations in Japan and probably most overseas resellers).
  
 In particular, one could make a case the 007mk1 sounds pretty anemic out of stax amps (that used to turn we away from Stax long time ago, I systematically was more wowed by electro-dynamic stuff, I was a young idiot though, now I am a wiser idiot).
  
 Nowadays, orthos are all the rage, and for good reason so there's hoping Stax house sound might shift again some time in the future, at least offer some alternative to the non-compromising SR009.
  
 Another explanation for the rather "forward" nature of recent offerings (as a result of the new diaphragm material supposedly) was the maturing age of the decision makers at Stax for the voicing of products. I don't quite believe this but in any case, recent Fujiya headphone festivals in Japan have shown the younger generation is getting ready to take over at Stax .
  
 arnaud


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Long live Stax earspeakers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ali


----------



## Michgelsen

ali-pacha said:


> Long live Stax earspeakers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hear, hear!


----------



## paradoxper

arnaud said:


> Nowadays, orthos are all the rage, and for good reason so there's hoping Stax house sound might shift again some time in the future, at least offer some alternative to the non-compromising SR009.
> 
> arnaud


 
 Does this imply that you feel the 009 can't be improved upon? I know Spritzer is like the only one who feels the 009 is meh/flawed while the vast majority of us feel it's a clear step up from everything else.


----------



## NoPants

arnaud said:


> My gut feeling was that they wanted a more lively sound so snap out more when paired with Stax amps (e.g. 100% of the configurations in Japan and probably most overseas resellers).
> 
> In particular, one could make a case the 007mk1 sounds pretty anemic out of stax amps (that used to turn we away from Stax long time ago, I systematically was more wowed by electro-dynamic stuff, I was a young idiot though, now I am a wiser idiot).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I believe the revisions were to deal with the cable entry strain relief, though I'm not sure what has become of the recent versions


----------



## Lan647

paradoxper said:


> Does this imply that you feel the 009 can't be improved upon? I know Spritzer is like the only one who feels the 009 is meh/flawed while the vast majority of us feel it's a clear step up from everything else.


 

 IMHO, the technical qualities of the SR-009 are close to exemplary. No issues with regards to coherency, frequency extension or refinement. I do however think that the presentation is a bit dull compared to the SR-007 which _I_ personally feel is a clear step up from everything else.


----------



## Earspeakers

ali-pacha said:


> Long live Stax earspeakers
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Agree. I spent years in planers, horns and the like, and finally gave up when I couldn't get any of them to do a good enough reproduction of a symphony orchestra. Sold it all off and bought a nice grand piano. On a whim I bought a pair of Stax (recently - this is years later) and found the reproduction I was looking for. Where have you been all my life??


----------



## arnaud

paradoxper said:


> Does this imply that you feel the 009 can't be improved upon? I know Spritzer is like the only one who feels the 009 is meh/flawed while the vast majority of us feel it's a clear step up from everything else.


 
  
 Let say I am a firm believer that any phone design is a matter of compromise, can't have the cake and eat it.
 - For instance, I would not want my 009 to sound like my 007mk1 or some other LCD headphone, I like too much it's transparency and soundstage
 - Maybe I am the minority but I much prefer strong focus / realistic placement than very expansive stage like HD800 throws at you.
 - There's a relationship between tonal balance of the phone and how open it sounds, I feel the 007mk1 does sound somewhat closed in relative to the 009 does and I am guessing it's because of the "scooped" out upper midrange (again relative to the 009)
 - The O2mk1 is more accommodating of poor quality masters / deafening level listening habits but I find the 009 treble more natural actually (007mk1 is the most balanced of all O2 versions imo but it still has this treble peak at 10kHz or so which is not really annoying but certainly not sounding like the real thing to me)
 - For some recordings, the 009 does not do any good and I switch to the O2mk1 in that case. I am happier with several high performance phones than one do it all with compromise.
 - I may change my mind if the upcoming BHSE turns the O2mk1 around as the reputation has it but for now that's how I feel.
  
 Never say never though, one only realises what he missed when he listens to it so if Stax comes up with an improved SR009mk2, I am all for it .


----------



## Rhamnetin

arnaud said:


> Let say I am a firm believer that any phone design is a matter of compromise, can't have the cake and eat it.
> - For instance, I would not want my 009 to sound like my 007mk1 or some other LCD headphone, I like too much it's transparency and soundstage
> - Maybe I am the minority but I much prefer strong focus / realistic placement than very expansive stage like HD800 throws at you.
> - There's a relationship between tonal balance of the phone and how open it sounds, I feel the 007mk1 does sound somewhat closed in relative to the 009 does and I am guessing it's because of the "scooped" out upper midrange (again relative to the 009)
> ...


 
  
 I very much agree with this assessment of the SR-009.  I think you'll be impressed by the BHSE with both of your headphones.  
  
 I have a hard time imagining an improved SR-009; while it's possible that some headphones may be better in certain aspects, as a whole I'll actually be surprised if I find something that I consider "better" than the SR-009.  It's just so amazing on a technical level, while still remaining musical.  So close to perfection to my ears.


----------



## cucera

Well even Spritzer likes his new version of the 009. 

Nevertheless I would regard a headphone with the technical ability of the 009 and the voicing of an early 007 MK1 the ultimate step up.


----------



## astrostar59

I wonder if the 'improved' 009 might be the response of buyers saying it is a bit bright. To me, that is due to the source. Many modern DACs are just to bright and cold sounding IMO.
 I moved from the 007 to the 009 and it was a major moment for me. But I never heard any brightness issues, only more of everything.
  
 The 007 is kinder and has the ability to smother a revealing front end to an extent, something that might have been built in for the outside of Japan market, not sure. I have heard from amplifier manufacturers outside of Japan, that the Japanese taste is on the cold/detailed side of things. And I guess the Stax way is detail detail detail. After years of other Stax models, IMO the 009 finally achieves that, but has everything else as well. And so it should! - it is the most expensive headphone they have ever made.
  
 Regardless if this is true, it is obvious once you have the 009s in the house for a few weeks, then go back to the 007s. I can't go back, but others might like both sides?


----------



## Axel

So, I found out I could get the SR-009 with one of their SRM-727/007 amps for less than $5000.
 I know most of you recommended not to go with the Stax amps, even with a, relatively, low budget 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 For this kind of price, should I take one of the Stax amplifiers or get a Woo WEE or the new AudioValve Verto and connect them to my speakers amplifier (Luxman)?
 If going for the Stax amplifier is what you recommend, should I go for the 727 or the 007t? (in general I tend toward tubes, but I don't know how Stax implemented those and if they can drive the SR-009s properly)
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## NoPants

727 is a better amplifier than the 007t, both require modification to perform at their best based on others' accounts
  
 the 009 is an easier load to drive than the 007 and if you are actually on a budget you could certainly get by with a 323s, no modification necessary here. I've used it with the 007s for an extended period of time and it's a nice stopgap which can be obtained for a fairly low price from pricejapan
  
 it doesn't matter what your speaker amplifier is, the transformers will be a limiting factor


----------



## paradoxper

astrostar59 said:


> I wonder if the 'improved' 009 might be the response of buyers saying it is a bit bright. To me, that is due to the source. Many modern DACs are just to bright and cold sounding IMO.
> I moved from the 007 to the 009 and it was a major moment for me. But I never heard any brightness issues, only more of everything.
> 
> The 007 is kinder and has the ability to smother a revealing front end to an extent, something that might have been built in for the outside of Japan market, not sure. I have heard from amplifier manufacturers outside of Japan, that the Japanese taste is on the cold/detailed side of things. And I guess the Stax way is detail detail detail. After years of other Stax models, IMO the 009 finally achieves that, but has everything else as well. And so it should! - it is the most expensive headphone they have ever made.
> ...


 
 It is a bit bright comparatively. The same however could be said for you saying the 007 is too dark when you're running a warmer less detailed source. 
 Of course, these are just generalizations. I only say this because of your crusade against everything PCM. It's annoying.
  
 It is interesting though about older/newer 009's. I know in the past the 009 just never stroked me - it was what I felt was overly bright, which was fatiguing.
 There seems to be a consensus with different S/N 007's, so perhaps there is some validity with the 009 as well. I doubt we'll ever truly know.


----------



## Axel

nopants said:


> 727 is a better amplifier than the 007t, both require modification to perform at their best based on others' accounts
> 
> the 009 is an easier load to drive than the 007 and if you are actually on a budget you could certainly get by with a 323s, no modification necessary here. I've used it with the 007s for an extended period of time and it's a nice stopgap which can be obtained for a fairly low price from pricejapan
> 
> it doesn't matter what your speaker amplifier is, the transformers will be a limiting factor


 
This reviewer thinks otherwise about the 727 vs the 007t...
  
 What kind of modifications? Is it something simple or requires a professional-hand? In your opinion is the 323 better than the 727/007t (since you mention it does not require any modifications)?
  
 By transformers, you mean the step-up transformers in the voltage converting unit (in the Woo WEE and the Verto)?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## NoPants

axel said:


> This reviewer thinks otherwise about the 727 vs the 007t...
> 
> What kind of modifications? Is it something simple or requires a professional-hand? In your opinion is the 323 better than the 727/007t (since you mention it does not require any modifications)?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The 007t doesn't use the proper tubes, its modification basically turns it into something resembling the KGST, which uses a 6s4a quad. There are some pictures which outline what needs to be done, I don't remember the exact procedure.
  
 The 727 needs feedback implemented, the traces are present but there need to be some resistor additions and/or swaps. Also has pictures available.
  
 I think the price/performance for the 323s is hard to beat if you're strictly trying to minimize total cost. If you want to spend more than 5k all-in spritzer has the standard DIY options available on his site, as well as some unique ones which may appeal to you. Having built the KGSSHV and several other options I would encourage you to start small, but definitely within the realm of dedicated ES amplification.
  
 Yes when I say transformer I mean the step-up variety. I used to own an SRD7, your speaker amplifier isn't going to cut it.


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> It is a bit bright comparatively. The same however could be said for you saying the 007 is too dark when you're running a warmer less detailed source.
> Of course, these are just generalizations. I only say this because of your crusade against everything PCM. It's annoying.
> 
> It is interesting though about older/newer 009's. I know in the past the 009 just never stroked me - it was what I felt was overly bright, which was fatiguing.
> There seems to be a consensus with different S/N 007's, so perhaps there is some validity with the 009 as well. I doubt we'll ever truly know.


 
 What??? I never said the 007 was too dark. I actually really enjoyed my time with my 007 Mk2.5s. What is clear to most here, is after hearing the 009s, they realise the extra layer that has been peeled away. But that can come at a price i.e you need a very smooth front end. A revealing front end, and revealing stat amp and a revealing 009 headphone = an element of treble fatigue coming your way. Possibly the issue some have had with the BHSE - dunno, I have heard the amp but don't own one, only read the posts. Tube choice seems to fix that for most folk i.e. system synergy again.
  
 On DACs, yes I admit I prefer None Oversampling types with tubes, but I have heard David's K-01 and it was as good for sure. Of the previous 9 Delta-Sigmas I have had, I liked them for a while, but got fatigue / bored of them. It is what makes this hobby interesting, we can't all like the same thing.
  
 I have bought lots of gear over the years, and it all had a footprint, and if the synergy is going one way (bright/cold) it is possible to bring that back by careful component matching. The better amplifier manufacturers do this already by demoing and selling their amps with sympathetic speakers. So low power SET amps use efficient 2 way or horn speakers.
  
 I would say IMO that the 009 is so open and revealing, it imparts NO signature on the music - Tyrell's review confirmed this aspect - thus I believe it opens up the source with all it's warts and all - if the synergy is right it can sound amazing.


----------



## paradoxper

It was implied by your 'smothering' comment. 
 You can like what you like - you just constantly harp about PCM's inferiority.


----------



## walakalulu

My 009s have 2 hours on the clock since yesterday and don't sound bright to me. How many hours required for break in and what changes can I expect please?


----------



## n3rdling

Stax breaks them in during QA.  They should stay the same unless you wear the earpads down really fast or have a faulty diaphragm.  Enjoy your new headphones.


----------



## NoPants

did they ever root cause the imbalance issues?


----------



## Axel

nopants said:


> The 007t doesn't use the proper tubes, its modification basically turns it into something resembling the KGST, which uses a 6s4a quad. There are some pictures which outline what needs to be done, I don't remember the exact procedure.


 
 Thanks.
 So if I can tweak the 007t to use the 6s4a tubes - will this suffice?
 What is the KGST? (I've heard of the KGSShv, and seen it in Mjolnir Audio website - is it as-good/better than the KGST?)


----------



## NoPants

axel said:


> Thanks.
> So if I can tweak the 007t to use the 6s4a tubes - will this suffice?
> What is the KGST? (I've heard of the KGSShv, and seen it in Mjolnir Audio website - is it as-good/better than the KGST?)


 
  
 KGST is one of the newer designs where it uses CCS-loaded 6s4a tubes on the output. I forget what the acronym stands for, single triode? Having heard the ST and HV side by side I think they handle music equally well with different presentations. I'm not entirely sure if the 6s4a mod will suffice for the 009s unfortunately, maybe someone that has done the mod/had the mod done can chime in. I think it should be fine given that it's easier to drive.
  
  


astrostar59 said:


> It's this kind of lack of knowledge and luddite responses that are damaging this hobby... listen to a NOS DAC and then come back, or talk to Audio Note.


 
  
 You should educate us if you're convinced that there isn't any HF distortion in an NOS filterless design. Should be easy to explain to us simpleton *luddites* who opt for OS and OS digital filters.


----------



## AnakChan

> axel said:
> 
> 
> > So, I found out I could get the SR-009 with one of their SRM-727/007 amps for less than $5000.
> ...


 
  
 When I bought my SR-009 (2+? yrs back) I borrowed my friend's SRM-007tA and brought it to the shop to compare back 'n forth to the SRM-727A. I bought the SRM-727A as my preferred amp but continued to borrow my friend's SRM-007tA for a few more weeks.
  
 To me the 007tA had great imaging but felt somewhat "laggy" compared to the 727A. And I continued to own the 727A for a further 1.5 years before switching to the Electra. Whilst the 727A may not have brought out the most of the 009, it was still quite satisfying.


----------



## eric65

axel said:


> So, I found out I could get the SR-009 with one of their SRM-727/007 amps for less than $5000.
> I know most of you recommended not to go with the Stax amps, even with a, relatively, low budget
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hello, in my opinion, for use with the 009:
  
 Speaker amplifier (less 20 Watt per channel) + Wee  <  Speaker amplifier (upper 20 Watt per channel) + Verto < SRM 007t < SRM 727 A (= combo RKV-Wee) < combo RKV-Verto (= or < Electra ?) (= or < Luminare ?) 
  
 (NB: good synergy with 009 of the tube amps solution devoid of step-down transformers (OTL amplifiers) with step-up transformer low ratio (1: 5 or 1: 6))


----------



## Decoy

Hi, I just got my SR-007 Mk.1 headphones in the mail today and if you tap or push down gently on or near the grill there is a sort-of-white-noise-clicky-thing (It's a technical term.) for just a moment.  It also happens if I am repositioning the headphones on my head or messing with the cable where it attaches to the headphones.  Is this normal?


----------



## rgs9200m

Not sure how it fits in here, but my EMM xds1 is extremely fine (and my favorite after trying others) with my dynamic system and my humble SR009 system.


----------



## edstrelow

I have no opinion about the DAC issues being discussed here.  It all seems very interesting but I am wondering why it is in the STAX THREAD?


----------



## Michgelsen

Ok, I'm done now.
  
 Let me just add a Stax question:
 Do any of you notice any sound quality when your amp (Stax or other maker) powers one or two headphones at the same time? I for one cannot hear any difference at all. I don't know if this is to be expected or weird. Opinions?


----------



## MacedonianHero

decoy said:


> Hi, I just got my SR-007 Mk.1 headphones in the mail today and if you tap or push down gently on or near the grill there is a sort-of-white-noise-clicky-thing (It's a technical term.) for just a moment.  It also happens if I am repositioning the headphones on my head or messing with the cable where it attaches to the headphones.  Is this normal?


 
  
 Welcome to the Stax "fart". Totally normal...we even gave it a really cool name.


----------



## AnakChan

Chaps, back to Stax, please.


----------



## Earspeakers

I've got a newbie Stax question. I left mine on all night on my 323S amp by accident - any downsides to doing that?


----------



## Michgelsen

No, shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## Earspeakers

Another question: dealer recommendations to buy a 009 mail order, not in California?


----------



## Lan647

macedonianhero said:


> Welcome to the Stax "fart". Totally normal...we even gave it a really cool name.




Shouldn't it be avoided though in order to ensure the longitivity of the membrane? 

It's one of the downsides of the 007 mk1. It "farts" like crazy!


----------



## loligagger

The stax fart is due to the dust cover, not the diaphragm. It's pretty harmless.


----------



## Lan647

loligagger said:


> The stax fart is due to the dust cover, not the diaphragm. It's pretty harmless.




What's causing it exactly? Is it not due to vacuum?


----------



## chinsettawong

lan647 said:


> What's causing it exactly? Is it not due to vacuum?


 
  
 In SR007, the distance between diaphragm and stator is only 0.5 mm.  When there is a change in the pressure inside the cup, it's possible to make the diaphragm bounce somewhat.  If there is too much pressure change, the diaphragm hits the stator.  Imagine that you're wearing the headphones.  The earpads make a perfect seal between your ears and your headphones.  When you move the headphones around even a tiny bit, the pressure inside the seal changes.
  
 The fart sound is actually the sound of diaphragm hitting the stator.  
  
 Wachara C.


----------



## Lan647

chinsettawong said:


> In SR007, the distance between diaphragm and stator is only 0.5 mm.  When there is a change in the pressure inside the cup, it's possible to make the diaphragm bounce somewhat.  If there is too much pressure change, the diaphragm hits the stator.  Imagine that you're wearing the headphones.  The earpads make a perfect seal between your ears and your headphones.  When you move the headphones around even a tiny bit, the pressure inside the seal changes.
> 
> The fart sound is actually the sound of diaphragm hitting the stator.
> 
> Wachara C.


 

 Thanks, this is what I originally assumed also. And to the big question; can this induce damage to the diaphragm over time? It's very easy to make this happen on the SR-007, you basically just have to press it slightly while it's on your head.


----------



## Michgelsen

In the box of the SR-007 there's a little paper note from Stax saying that it's harmless.


----------



## Hun7er

Hi,
  
 I want more confortable (thicker) pads for my Sigma. Which pads should I buy ?


----------



## davidsh

Re: running several Stax off an amp: this might stress the amp at high frequencies as the impedance will fall with higher frequency. Eventually the amp might not be able to deliver enough current.
I don't think this is a problem generally speaking, though.


----------



## padam

hun7er said:


> Hi,
> 
> I want more confortable (thicker) pads for my Sigma. Which pads should I buy ?


 
 207 pads will fit no problem (but there might be a change in sound)


----------



## astrostar59

*NEW STAX 009?*
 Hi all. I had a chat with David61 and he heard the recent released 009 that has a tamed treble. Is this the same direction Stax tried with the 007 Mk2s? I think that was partially successful IMO.
  
 Any thoughts?
  
 FWIW I am MEGA happy with my 6 month old 009s UK sourced. I don't real the need to back off the treble energy. IMO it might be good to have a few more subtle setting in Audirvana+ for example, to shelf down the treble if required. There is a Mode 1 and Mode 2 which does that now. I use Mode 1 which is flat. It would be better to let the user do that in software, than have a 'fix' that is permanent.


----------



## cucera

I was the one who reported that here and Spritzer confirmed it, Nobody knows when Stax made the change so there is a good chance your unit has a tamed treble. But It is definitly not what Stax did with the SR-007 because the treble became worse with every revision.


----------



## David1961

I was wanting to find out how the new version of the 009 compared to the old one, and I'm glad I did because with my amp ( with the tubes I'm using ) and source I prefer the old version.


----------



## rgs9200m

So now we have a bass-heavy 009, like the R10?


----------



## n3rdling

I'll wait for the measurements.


----------



## astrostar59

Hi David. My 6 months old UK sourced 009 is the same signature  as yours, so I am thinking the change came very recently.
  
 As I said in an earlier post, I wish Stax would leave minor adjustments to the treble response to system adjustments like in Audirvana+ has. If they change the 009 for the worse then that is wrong. Innerfidelity in their review said it was as straight through as you could get i.e. no signature, just what is in the source. I tend to agree. The 007 Mk2s was darker and a bit veiled, also slower. But those things may be the older design and lower tech of those phones, not sure. It is agreed by most that the later 007s had a bit of a mid bass hump. Not sure about the treble levels though, I was under the impression both the 007s Mk1 and 007 Mk2 had the same treble responses.
  
 Anyone who has both can chine in here to confirm that please.
  
 I am wondering for the masses though, if the later 009 with lower treble energy might suit more modern DACs that tend towards detail and brightness?


----------



## David1961

astrostar59 said:


> Hi David. My 6 months old UK sourced 009 is the same signature  as yours, so I am thinking the change came very recently.
> 
> As I said in an earlier post, I wish Stax would leave minor adjustments to the treble response to system adjustments like in Audirvana+ has. If they change the 009 for the worse then that is wrong. Innerfidelity in their review said it was as straight through as you could get i.e. no signature, just what is in the source. I tend to agree. The 007 Mk2s was darker and a bit veiled, also slower. But those things may be the older design and lower tech of those phones, not sure. It is agreed by most that the later 007s had a bit of a mid bass hump. Not sure about the treble levels though, I was under the impression both the 007s Mk1 and 007 Mk2 had the same treble responses.
> 
> ...




Hi Julian,

The new 009's might be preferred by some if not most to the old version, but from using the PH tubes with my BHSE with the source being the K-01, I preferred the SQ of the old version.

Because I changed the tubes from stock Mullard's to the PH's well before myself and Mark heard my BHSE with my K-01, we didn't heard both the 009's with the stock Mullard's while the K-01 was being used.
So if we'd have heard his new version 009's using the stock Mullard's with my source then his 009's might've sounded better than the old version.
I myself are not keen on how some of the songs in my collection sound while using the stock Mullard's with my BHSE while that source of mine is being used, but with the PH's I couldn't be happier.

After hearing the old and new 009's, and also hearing the 007mk1's, ( although that was sometime ago ) I would guess that the new version of the 009's could be something between the old 009's and 007mk1's.


----------



## astrostar59

Interesting. I think you are correct, the new version 009 might fit more (bright) DACs out there. I am very happy with mine with my source,
 the detail and transparency is everything to get closer to the music. I would miss loosing any of it, it would be like going back to the treble of my 007s.
  
 I wonder if anyone knows when the change happened i.e. Stax started shipping? Of course, we won't hear shi* out of Stax as usual, but it might be 
 possible to work it out by users who have both versions or have mates who just bought them.
  
 I think Birgir is happy with the 009s now? (finally). Maybe his are the new versions. Again, makes me think his DAC is brighter than mine.


----------



## Rossliew

I have a pair of 007 Mk II and they do sound noticeably darker, not as dark as the HD650 but noticeable. The soundstage is more intimate and I hear less airiness surrounding instruments. Then again, I am pairing it with the KGST which is hybrid and a tad warmish sounding due to the tubes present. From your experience with the 009s, are the newer ones darker? I'm actually looking for a brighter set to complement the 007s.


----------



## RiStaR

rossliew said:


> I have a pair of 007 Mk II and they do sound noticeably darker, not as dark as the HD650 but noticeable. The soundstage is more intimate and I hear less airiness surrounding instruments. Then again, I am pairing it with the KGST which is hybrid and a tad warmish sounding due to the tubes present. From your experience with the 009s, are the newer ones darker? I'm actually looking for a brighter set to complement the 007s.


 
  
 I'd be careful with generalizations like that. Tubes (well designed and executed) don't automatically mean a warm sound. From my experience, the stuff that comes out of Kevin's schematics definitely don't steer that way.


----------



## Rossliew

ristar said:


> I'd be careful with generalizations like that. Tubes (well designed and executed) don't automatically mean a warm sound. From my experience, the stuff that comes out of Kevin's schematics definitely don't steer that way.


 

 Fair point but if you'd check Birgir's website now, he has a KGST newly built for sale and it does mention in the description that it is warm sounding and therefore a better match for the 009. I do recall reading reviews that the WA6SE, although tube based, is solid state sounding.


----------



## RiStaR

rossliew said:


> Fair point but if you'd check Birgir's website now, he has a KGST newly built for sale and it does mention in the description that it is warm sounding and therefore a better match for the 009. I do recall reading reviews that the WA6SE, although tube based, is solid state sounding.


 
  
 Okay... I just wanted to address the tube vs ss generalization, that's all.  For my Mk1... moving from the KGSSHV to the megatron, the big change for me was how holographic and involving the tube amp was, and that gain is offset by losing a bit of the bass "slam" that I got used to from the KGSSHV. 
  
 That said, it does sound like you have an issue somewhere. So I've never heard a Mk2 before, but based on what you're describing that's a strange response from the headphone? It's losing "air"/treble compared to which amp - same source (what source)? Hopefully someone else (Geoff, Nopants or Birgir maybe?) can jump in with comments on how the KGSTs does with the 007s. 
  
 From the accounts I've been reading while all the KGSTs were being built, it seems to sound pretty good and seem to have pretty good drive? I know the treble or "air" on my mk1s are okay even on the really weak SRM-252 (it wasn't ideal on a lot of ways and I didn't spend much time on it but treble was not among any of the issues I remember or noticed).


----------



## cucera

astrostar59 said:


> I think Birgir is happy with the 009s now? (finally). Maybe his are the new versions. Again, makes me think his DAC is brighter than mine.




He was the first that gave me the hint when I bought my BHSE from him and he ownes a new one.


----------



## mulveling

I too think we're jumping awful fast into the conclusion of Mk I/Mk II versions for SR-009. I remain very sceptic until we see further proof. Mine were purchased from PJ in July this year and they're what I'd consider very slightly on the bight side of neutral. That said, I wouldn't change them a bit, as they sound brilliant -- plus they don't irritate my ears like other bright(er) cans such as the HD800. Purk's pair of 009 is older than mine (by a year or two, I think) and sound ever so slightly _warmer_ than mine, but I'd attribute that to pad condition and headband compression before anything else.


----------



## Rossliew

ristar said:


> Okay... I just wanted to address the tube vs ss generalization, that's all.  For my Mk1... moving from the KGSSHV to the megatron, the big change for me was how holographic and involving the tube amp was, and that gain is offset by losing a bit of the bass "slam" that I got used to from the KGSSHV.
> 
> That said, it does sound like you have an issue somewhere. So I've never heard a Mk2 before, but based on what you're describing that's a strange response from the headphone? It's losing "air"/treble compared to which amp - same source (what source)? Hopefully someone else (Geoff, Nopants or Birgir maybe?) can jump in with comments on how the KGSTs does with the 007s.
> 
> From the accounts I've been reading while all the KGSTs were being built, it seems to sound pretty good and seem to have pretty good drive? I know the treble or "air" on my mk1s are okay even on the really weak SRM-252 (it wasn't ideal on a lot of ways and I didn't spend much time on it but treble was not among any of the issues I remember or noticed).


 

 I'm just worried it confirms what everyone else is saying i.e. the Mk II sucks? Anyway, I'm still waiting for my balanced interconnects to arrive so i can use the setup on a fully balanced mode. Maybe that might help...i hope. Unfortunately I don't have another Stax amp or can to compare with but from memory, the humble SR-407 with a matching Stax amp (can't recall which model) gave a more realistic out of the head sound and bass was no lacking either. So, that's that then..


----------



## astrostar59

If we are comparing the 407 or 507 withy the 007 MK2s don't worry. The 007s are a lot more sophisticated and have more dynamics and bass than the lower models (if you power it with a BHSE/KGSS/KGSShv). The 007s are not bad at all, far from it. It is just they are a tad dark compared to the 507s treble and of course the 009s. 
  
 The Stax range is about right, more money spent = better SQ IMO. Though you need a better front end to go with the jump. It is not a good idea to stick a revealing 'show me everything' 009s onto a cheap DAC or amp.


----------



## Michgelsen

Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> It is not a good idea to stick a revealing 'show me everything' 009s onto a cheap DAC or amp.


 
  
 Although the SR-007 still sounds *really* good out of a SRM-252, so it's all very relative in the land of audiophiles...


----------



## Tachikoma

astrostar59 said:


> The Stax range is about right, more money spent = better SQ IMO. Though you need a better front end to go with the jump. It is not a good idea to stick a revealing 'show me everything' 009s onto a cheap DAC or amp.


 

 Well.... a lot of people do prefer the 207 over the more expensive Lambdas.


----------



## Rossliew

astrostar59 said:


> If we are comparing the 407 or 507 withy the 007 MK2s don't worry. The 007s are a lot more sophisticated and have more dynamics and bass than the lower models (if you power it with a BHSE/KGSS/KGSShv). The 007s are not bad at all, far from it. It is just they are a tad dark compared to the 507s treble and of course the 009s.
> 
> The Stax range is about right, more money spent = better SQ IMO. Though you need a better front end to go with the jump. It is not a good idea to stick a revealing 'show me everything' 009s onto a cheap DAC or amp.


 
 Have you tried either the 407 ot 307 (or even a lower range lambda) with the KGSSHV/KGST? Would you reckon they make a good pairing?


----------



## NoPants

michgelsen said:


> Quote:
> 
> Although the SR-007 still sounds *really* good out of a SRM-252, so it's all very relative in the land of audiophiles...


 
 It's also fine out of the 323S, just underwhelming at lower volumes.


----------



## RiStaR

nopants said:


> It's also fine out of the 323S, just underwhelming at lower volumes.


 
  
 May not exactly be your point but I've found the 007s need to hit a certain volume to really be foot tapping. While on the Lambdas... I do think the SR-202s is THE value buy. It is wonderful in making music - I haven't found the newer models to better really. It hardly gets any head time nowadays but I'm just too unwilling to let it go especially with rock - some of my less music-inclined friends even think it sounds better than my 007s [it's likely to do with the volume, really... but it's easy to just nod your head with it]


----------



## Rossliew

ristar said:


> May not exactly be your point but I've found the 007s need to hit a certain volume to really be foot tapping. While on the Lambdas... I do think the SR-202s is THE value buy. It is wonderful in making music - I haven't found the newer models to better really. It hardly gets any head time nowadays but I'm just too unwilling to let it go especially with rock - some of my less music-inclined friends even think it sounds better than my 007s [it's likely to do with the volume, really... but it's easy to just nod your head with it]


 
 Hmm...this show that value buys may not be inferior in quality : ) i shall need to search for some lambdas hehehe..


----------



## Michgelsen

ristar said:


> I do think the SR-202s is THE value buy. It is wonderful in making music - I haven't found the newer models to better really. It hardly gets any head time nowadays but I'm just too unwilling to let it go especially with rock


 
  
 I couldn't agree more, although I finally let mine go recently. Let's hope I won't regret it. In the end though, I always came back to the SR-007, so that was the reason I sold them.


----------



## NoPants

ristar said:


> May not exactly be your point but I've found the 007s need to hit a certain volume to really be foot tapping. While on the Lambdas... I do think the SR-202s is THE value buy. It is wonderful in making music - I haven't found the newer models to better really. It hardly gets any head time nowadays but I'm just too unwilling to let it go especially with rock - some of my less music-inclined friends even think it sounds better than my 007s [it's likely to do with the volume, really... but it's easy to just nod your head with it]


 
 I don't really have a problem with 007s at a lower level, that's what I have to do at work. I use the Megatron for that though, not the most fair comparison


----------



## Michgelsen

NoPants, do you have two 007s: one for the office, one at home? Or do you take it with you in its suitcase? It would be pretty awesome to see someone walking on the streets actually using the 007 suitcase for that purpose.


----------



## NoPants

yeah I currently own two pairs. my amplifiers don't get used enough unless I keep them at the office. doubles as a heater


----------



## Michgelsen

Nice, first world decadence, love it.


----------



## Earspeakers

There's something very "first world" about using the expression "first world" in a sentence. 

Just poking fun, though I is getting overused.


----------



## zolkis

Few realize that the changes described between the "old" and "new" 009 _may_ also be caused by slightly different ear pad materials (leather, pleather, foam) as a result of a possible change in sourcing. This would more plausible then a latent diaphragm or driver change. I definitely hear differences between the old (softer) and new 007 pads, the 007 Mk II pads, and the (new?) 009 pads. Bass, treble, midrange - all can change.
  
 It is also possible there are small manufacturing shifts, and few people can check many 009's in the same conditions in order to verify manufacturing tolerances. Now that number is rising, and we see the same phenomenon like with the alleged HD800 differences (there too, the most criticised area, the treble was claimed to be addressed), but whether this is random, or a tendency, could not be determined with the HD800, and I bet it will be the case with the 009 as well. But at least now we have one more variable to handle in testimonies coming from various sources.


----------



## NoPants

ristar said:


> Okay... I just wanted to address the tube vs ss generalization, that's all.  For my Mk1... moving from the KGSSHV to the megatron, the big change for me was how holographic and involving the tube amp was, and that gain is offset by losing a bit of the bass "slam" that I got used to from the KGSSHV.
> 
> That said, it does sound like you have an issue somewhere. So I've never heard a Mk2 before, but based on what you're describing that's a strange response from the headphone? It's losing "air"/treble compared to which amp - same source (what source)? Hopefully someone else (Geoff, Nopants or Birgir maybe?) can jump in with comments on how the KGSTs does with the 007s.
> 
> From the accounts I've been reading while all the KGSTs were being built, it seems to sound pretty good and seem to have pretty good drive? I know the treble or "air" on my mk1s are okay even on the really weak SRM-252 (it wasn't ideal on a lot of ways and I didn't spend much time on it but treble was not among any of the issues I remember or noticed).


 
  
 KGST + 007 is a nice combination, certainly at the KGSSHV level. I prefer the treble presentation to the HV, but I might be biased...@ 10ma. 
  
 I used the QB9 between both of them.


----------



## Rossliew

A little update on my part to sorta clear the air a bit. Finally got my balanced interconnects in yesterday and am now running fully balanced from Gungnir to the KGST with a 007 Mk II. It definitely sounds airier now and soundstage has expanded. Even with lossy files. So, i guess on single ended inputs, the quality of sound was compromised to a certain extent or rather the full potential of the Gungnir/KGST was not realised.
  
 The 007s are still on the warmer side of neutral but i get improved treble reproduction now. Need more listening time and as the cables burn in, i'm hoping for more improvements to come.
  
 I'm now curious if a KGSSHV will be able to provide more bass slam (although it is not lacking with the current set-up). Some people just like to have more of everything : )


----------



## MacedonianHero

zolkis said:


> Few realize that the changes described between the "old" and "new" 009 _may_ also be caused by slightly different ear pad materials (leather, pleather, foam) as a result of a possible change in sourcing. This would more plausible then a latent diaphragm or driver change. I definitely hear differences between the old (softer) and new 007 pads, the 007 Mk II pads, and the (new?) 009 pads. Bass, treble, midrange - all can change.
> 
> It is also possible there are small manufacturing shifts, and few people can check many 009's in the same conditions in order to verify manufacturing tolerances. Now that number is rising, and we see the same phenomenon like with the alleged HD800 differences (there too, the most criticised area, the treble was claimed to be addressed), but whether this is random, or a tendency, could not be determined with the HD800, and I bet it will be the case with the 009 as well. But at least now we have one more variable to handle in testimonies coming from various sources.


 
  
 Call me skeptical...but I've heard the same thing about the HD800s and I've heard them from 6000 - 22 000 (serial numbers) and they all sounded the same.


----------



## walakalulu

This debate about 009's and any changes. Can't somebody just ASK THEM! Or are Stax one of these folk who just don't pick up?


----------



## cucera

Well I guess it will be more than a year from now before we can confirm this assuption if the change was recently. Even when someone buys a new one now, nobody will now weather it is the newest charge or has been at the distributor for a while as Stax is not using linear SN.


----------



## TheAttorney

walakalulu said:


> This debate about 009's and any changes. Can't somebody just ASK THEM! Or are Stax one of these folk who just don't pick up?


 

 Manufacturers in general wouldn't necessarily answer such a question honestly. They'll give you the answer that fits in with whatever communications policy they may have.
  
 Secondly, the person you ask will not know all that is going on in the lab.
  
 Thirdly, some changes might be considered inconsequential to SQ by the company (eg. change of quality of leather on pads, as per Zolkis comments).
  
 Finally, it may be nothing to do with old or new. There may be a level of sample variation. I.e. this is a precision instrument at least partly hand made. So it is quite conceivable that sometimes one will be slightly different to others.
  
 Finally, finally, this may all just be over imagination. All I can say is that my brand spanking new (not been waiting in a distributors warehouse) 009s do not suffer from over brightness compared to my 007 Mk1s. I'm delighted with that aspect. I should add that my hearing tails off after 13kHz, although in the past all "brightness" issues for me have come in at much lower frequencies than this, starting with the upper mids.


----------



## cucera

Stax especially is secretive with the changes. They even didn't acknowledge the massive change of the 007 in 2011 when they used a new Diaphragm material and still call it MK2 instead of mk3. It is practically a new headphone as much changed as 404 to 407.


----------



## padam

But they did change the series to SZ3 instead of SZ2.


----------



## Michgelsen

And do they even speak English over at Stax..?


----------



## NoPants

That's not really an issue for a handful of people here, but it's more that no one's going to admit to intentionally creating variability and changes in their product.


----------



## Earspeakers

Undocumented minor product revisions are a fact of life folks, everybody does them. 
  
 At my job we invent and sell hardware devices (I write the software for them) that cost 20X the 009's, and they frequently get unannounced changes and improvements in between major revs.


----------



## Jones Bob

It may be as simple as thier prime vendor discontinuing supply of the diaphragm raw material. Going to another source with a near equivalent material could lead to a slightly altered SQ. Unplanned unexpected consequences.


----------



## n3rdling

Very unlikely that they ran out of super engineering plastic.  Minimum quantity with the places that make this stuff is at least a roll, which is usually over 3,000 ft...in most cases way more.  I also don't think we should state that the diaphragm on the 007 SZ3 is a different material than the SZ2 unless we have evidence, as far as I know it's still simply speculation.


----------



## Currawong

If there was a change, it would most definitely be deliberate I reckon.


----------



## Earspeakers

jones bob said:


> It may be as simple as thier prime vendor discontinuing supply of the diaphragm raw material. Going to another source with a near equivalent material could lead to a slightly altered SQ. Unplanned unexpected consequences.


 

 Exactly, particularly with small time manufacturers like this. Only the big ones like Apple can really secure their supply chain, small guys are much more subject to obsolescence issues. 
  
 That's particularly the case with electronic components but less so with Stax though, I would think.


----------



## HemiSam

I posted the following in the entry level Stax thread also, so please forgive if you're seeing this twice:
  
 I don't know if I'm posting in the right thread, so apologies up front if I'm in the wrong place.
  
 I took a dive into electrostat hp's with the purchase of Koss ESP-950's along with the E/90 amp.  Been very much enjoying the detail, highs and mids since I purchased them a few weeks ago.  Currently revisiting my Led Zep collection...sounds great   I've not been listening to my other rig since then and have been looking at an amp upgrade for the e-stats.  The Stax SRM-1/MK-2 looks to be a good one based on several threads I have been reading through.
  
 My question:  is this indeed a good choice for an amp upgrade without breaking the bank and if so, the Stax amps I have seen obviously have quite a few years on them.  Is there a trustworthy technician/elctronics store in the U.S. that specializes in tune-ups and restorations so I can have a purchased SRM-1/MK-2 refreshed to ensure I have a good working unit?  I would also ask the shop to modify the Koss extension cord with a Stax plug to allow me to use the ESP-950s with the upgraded Stax amp.  
  
 Thanks for any thoughts/recommendations.
  
 HS


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Sorrodje has precisely this pitch of yours...except he's from France. You may find him on the HD-800 thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## HemiSam

ali-pacha said:


> Sorrodje has precisely this pitch of yours...except he's from France. You may find him on the HD-800 thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Thank you, Ali.  Sorrodje and I have communicated on this topic...very kind and helpful gentleman.  Given he is located in Europe, he is taking a path that would be too pricey for me (i.e. sending my equipment to Europe from Texas).  So I'm hoping I can find a good tech/shop domestically.
  
 I have found a thread on how to change the caps here, and while I do have a soldering iron and do some electrical work on my race car, I am a bit of an oaf/rough with the equipment...much better with mechanical items.  So I would prefer to find someone that knows what they're doing and has a more delicate touch.
  
 HS


----------



## b0bb

hemisam said:


> I posted the following in the entry level Stax thread also, so please forgive if you're seeing this twice:
> 
> I don't know if I'm posting in the right thread, so apologies up front if I'm in the wrong place.
> 
> ...


 

 The SRM-1 is getting quite old and will at least need to have the capacitors replaced and the balance and offset re-adjusted to account for ageing.
  
 An alternative is the SRM-323s, this is a current production model and a used model can be had for about $150-$200 more than the SRM-1 based on a quick look on Ebay.
 A new SRM-252s for about the same price from places like PriceJapan.
  
 The SRM-252s runs at a lower voltage and does not play as loud as the 323s, works well if the 12V wall wart is replaced with a real regulated PSU.
  
 I own both of them.


----------



## AnakChan

walakalulu said:


> This debate about 009's and any changes. Can't somebody just ASK THEM! Or are Stax one of these folk who just don't pick up?


I did just now at the e-earphone Headphone Festival. As others have alluded to, Stax official stance is "No change".


----------



## Sorrodje

ali-pacha said:


> Sorrodje has precisely this pitch of yours...except he's from France. You may find him on the HD-800 thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Damned. i'm Spied 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So it's time to emerge from the Shadows and subscribe to this famous thread.  New Stax owner here. I bought a SR404 + SRM1/mkII combo indeed.  Firstly , i bought the amp to drive the KOSS ESP950 I'm waiting too and I thought to sell the SR404 quickly in order to fund the a part of the amp and a full service at INEXXON.com  but I'll wait a bit before taking my decision.
  
 Have a good day


----------



## HemiSam

b0bb said:


> The SRM-1 is getting quite old and will at least need to have the capacitors replaced and the balance and offset re-adjusted to account for ageing.
> 
> An alternative is the SRM-323s, this is a current production model and a used model can be had for about $150-$200 more than the SRM-1 based on a quick look on Ebay.
> A new SRM-252s for about the same price from places like PriceJapan.
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for your post, b0bb.  I have concluded the same about the caps, balance and offset so that is an incremental expense...good point.  It looks as if the SRM-323s is as powerful as the SRM-1/MK-2 on paper unless I'm missing something.  Interesting about the 323s and the 252s, including the need for an upgraded power supply for the 252.  
  
 The 323s looks like a good option.  Have you compared the 323 to the SRM-1 and did you have a preference?  Also, how are you powering your 323s if you don't mind sharing?
  
 HS


----------



## NoPants

323s has its own built-in power supply, 252 has a wallwart


----------



## richard51

b0bb said:


> The SRM-1 is getting quite old and will at least need to have the capacitors replaced and the balance and offset re-adjusted to account for ageing.
> 
> An alternative is the SRM-323s, this is a current production model and a used model can be had for about $150-$200 more than the SRM-1 based on a quick look on Ebay.
> A new SRM-252s for about the same price from places like PriceJapan.
> ...


 

  What is the site that sell your regulated PSU for stax?  I want to buy one.... but i dont know what nor where.....thanks  I have a srm 252s


----------



## b0bb

richard51 said:


> What is the site that sell your regulated PSU for stax?  I want to buy one.... but i dont know what nor where.....thanks  I have a srm 252s



 


The 252s pinout on the power connector is *reversed*
Apart from STAX, there are no ready made PSUs for the 252s that I am aware of.

I bought a basic 12V PSU from Ebay and modified it.

I also installed output protection diodes on my PSU.


----------



## b0bb

hemisam said:


> Thank you for your post, b0bb.  I have concluded the same about the caps, balance and offset so that is an incremental expense...good point.  It looks as if the SRM-323s is as powerful as the SRM-1/MK-2 on paper unless I'm missing something.  Interesting about the 323s and the 252s, including the need for an upgraded power supply for the 252.
> 
> The 323s looks like a good option.  Have you compared the 323 to the SRM-1 and did you have a preference?  Also, how are you powering your 323s if you don't mind sharing?
> 
> HS



 


The 323s comes with the power supply built in.

The comparisons I have done between the 323s and the SRM-1/MK is limited to the history and the evolution of the circuit design.
Schematics are available for both units on HF and elsewhere if you are interested in the details.

The 323s was launched in 2010, the SRM-1 in 1979 and the SRM-1/Mk2 in 1982

Personally I will hold on to stuff as long as parts for maintenance is available, the Achilles heel of these type of amps is the available supplies of the specialized high voltage transistors.
These transistors are even more rare than vacuum tubes.


----------



## HemiSam

b0bb said:


> hemisam said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for your post, b0bb.  I have concluded the same about the caps, balance and offset so that is an incremental expense...good point.  It looks as if the SRM-323s is as powerful as the SRM-1/MK-2 on paper unless I'm missing something.  Interesting about the 323s and the 252s, including the need for an upgraded power supply for the 252.
> ...


 
  
  
 Thanks again, b0bb.  I'm doing some research to see if there are schools of thought regarding one being better than the other.  All being equal, it's hard to argue with the points you've made.  I think, in terms of reliability, perhaps technology (can't say yet) and servicing.
  
 HS


----------



## HemiSam

P.S. - I'm going to need to convert a Koss extention cable to take a Stax plug for the Pro connection.  Does anyone know where I can purchase the plug?
  
 HS


----------



## gepardcv

b0bb said:


> Apart from STAX, there are no ready made PSUs for the 252s that I am aware of.


 
  
 I use this one, and it works perfectly: http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?pv1376=2&pv48=2&pv2=105&pv2=173&pv52=6&FV=fff40009,fff8004a&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25
  
 It's regulated, has the Stax-style center negative polarity, and a somewhat higher power rating than the stock one. No idea if it sounds any different, and I wouldn't have bothered with it, but I like brining back Stax gear from Japan, and needed a PSU with a North American voltage.


----------



## richard51

gepardcv said:


> I use this one, and it works perfectly: http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?pv1376=2&pv48=2&pv2=105&pv2=173&pv52=6&FV=fff40009,fff8004a&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25
> 
> It's regulated, has the Stax-style center negative polarity, and a somewhat higher power rating than the stock one. No idea if it sounds any different, and I wouldn't have bothered with it, but I like brining back Stax gear from Japan, and needed a PSU with a North American voltage.


 
 is this one is ok for the srm 252 s ?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEGATIVE-CENTER-PIN-5-5mm-12V-1A-500mA-200mA-AC-DC-Adapter-Power-Supply-Charger-/400815931957?pt=US_MP3_Player_Chargers_Cradles&hash=item5d527dc235


----------



## n3rdling

hemisam said:


> P.S. - I'm going to need to convert a Koss extention cable to take a Stax plug for the Pro connection.  Does anyone know where I can purchase the plug?
> 
> HS


 
 Search the Koss 950 thread, I know it's been linked to in there a few times.


----------



## HemiSam

n3rdling said:


> Search the Koss 950 thread, I know it's been linked to in there a few times.


 
  
 Thanks...
  
 http://www.moon-audio.com/stax-cable-mount-5-pin-din.html#
  
 I'm trying to read through that entire thread....all 102 pages 
  
  
 HS


----------



## gepardcv

richard51 said:


> is this one is ok for the srm 252 s ?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEGATIVE-CENTER-PIN-5-5mm-12V-1A-500mA-200mA-AC-DC-Adapter-Power-Supply-Charger-/400815931957?pt=US_MP3_Player_Chargers_Cradles&hash=item5d527dc235




The specs looks okay, but I would not trust the pin polarity, or that it's regulated, without double-checking the output voltage with a multimeter. I checked the one from digikey before plugging it into my 252.


----------



## yaluen

gepardcv said:


> richard51 said:
> 
> 
> > is this one is ok for the srm 252 s ?
> ...


 
  
 Make sure it has a 2.1mm inner diameter barrel plug or it won't make proper contact with the socket.


----------



## richard51

gepardcv said:


> The specs looks okay, but I would not trust the pin polarity, or that it's regulated, without double-checking the output voltage with a multimeter. I checked the one from digikey before plugging it into my 252.


 

 thank you very much for your time and reply


----------



## richard51

yaluen said:


> Make sure it has a 2.1mm inner diameter barrel plug or it won't make proper contact with the socket.


 
 thanks for your advise


----------



## Sleepow

Hello,

I am planning on upgrading my headphone equipment and will need a DAC, amp and headphones.
My favorite headphones to buy would be the 009. My problem is that where I live (Japan) I seem to only locally find the Stax amps and cannot find any better stats amp.
The alternative to the 009 are the Senn HD800, paired with the Luxman DAC DA-06 and Luxman amp p-700u.
So would, with the same source (or similarly priced and available in Japan) the 009 and Stax amp be as good as, or better, than the HD800 set-up.

For now I could only listen to the Stax combo (007ta amp) with a lesser source, and the HD800 with the HDVD600 with the same source. They both had pros and cons and with the noisy background, it was difficult to decide what is the best overall sound for me.

Cheers,
Cédric


----------



## NoPants

323s


----------



## Moonhead

Sleepow.. 

Well only you Can choose what do get and i Would recommend listening to both several times. 

I had HD800 before i upgraded to Stax 009 and they both Got there pros and cons. 

To me HD800 sounds very unnatural with there treble tilt and couldnt compete with my active highend speakers. 

009 Sound a lot more natural to me they are quite fare apart technical, eventhough the Sound slightly Bright at times, 
Even David Mahler States that. 

Well My speakers are some of the Best ive heart, but the get trumfet by Stax.
Ive sold My 009 and downgraded to 007mkI, but i really couldnt go back to HD800 aften listening to Electrostates.


----------



## Sleepow

moonhead said:


> Sleepow..
> 
> Well only you Can choose what do get and i Would recommend listening to both several times.
> 
> ...




I understand what you mean, and indeed the 009 sounded more natural (or musical) to me, but I felt maybe a little less resolving, which could be due to the not so great amp.

If I could get a Blue Hawaii for a total cost of the price in US, I would most likely go for the Stax. But here I would pay a lot for shipping and import taxes. And also I would buy sound unheard, which is a little scary at this price.

So if I go for Stax, it will have to be with a Stax amp, which I am concerned about.


----------



## Moonhead

You could also consider a KGSSHV from Spritzer.

Birgir where friendly to make a recieve with a adjusted Price, so taxes where not so bad 

http://mjolnir-audio.com/?page_id=14


----------



## b0bb

sleepow said:


> I understand what you mean, and indeed the 009 sounded more natural (or musical) to me, but I felt maybe a little less resolving, which could be due to the not so great amp.
> 
> If I could get a Blue Hawaii for a total cost of the price in US, I would most likely go for the Stax. But here I would pay a lot for shipping and import taxes. And also I would buy sound unheard, which is a little scary at this price.
> 
> So if I go for Stax, it will have to be with a Stax amp, which I am concerned about.


 

 If you found the SR009 on the SRM007t not as resolving as the HD800, that is my opinion as well, in stock form the SRM007t is quite average, it falls apart if you crank up the volume past the 2o'clock position.
  
 I find the best stock amp STAX makes is the SRM323S, it can be bettered by the SRM007t if the stock tubes are replaced. The SRM727 needs a feedback mod to exceed the 323.
 The KGSSHV is about 4x of the cost of the 323 before taxes and shipping. KGSSHV and Blue Hawaii are my DIY projects for 2015.
  
 I think Japan is the best place if you are looking to purchase STAX.
  
 I spent much of 2014 sorting out the DAC and headphone amp for the HD800, my conclusion from this work, is that the HD800 is quite good at pointing out the deficiency of the reproduction chain and most especially the source.
 Once this is fixed, the HD800 does live up to its reputation of performance that can rival an electrostatic. (Getting there was a pain, I had to change the DAC's master clock 6 times!)
  
 I used the Yulong DA8/A28 combo as a starting point and some of it is documented in the respective threads for the DA8 and A28 here.
  
 The difference between the SR009/SRM007t and the HD800/ModdedA28 is not night day, instead differences are traded on specific points such as soundstage width and mid range presentation.
 If the DAC is changed to a less capable device, in my case, a stock M2Tech Hiface DAC then all the common complaints about the HD800 returns.
  
 The closest off the shelf amp the my modded A28 is the Schiit Mjolnir, it does a good job of keeping the HD800 under control.
  
 I bought the DA8 as an experiment to check out the Sabre32 DAC as Yulong's implementation is good, I am looking at the Accuphase DC-37 as the final long term source
  
 Since you are in Japan, I think it is worth checking out with either the SR009 or HD800 preferably both if you can manage it.
 http://www.accuphase.com/model/dc-37.html


----------



## Moonhead

I would not recommend Schiit Mjolnir as it is very bright Amp With a somewhat bright headphone Like HD800, IMO.

Questyle cma800r are one excellent Amp With HD800, striking synergy and not that exspensive too. 
Still kind of fare from the performance of 009 + KGSSHV.

If money is low HD800 are exceptional value, but everybody knows that


----------



## Lan647

b0bb said:


> If you found the SR009 on the SRM007t not as resolving as the HD800, that is my opinion as well, in stock form the SRM007t is quite average, *it falls apart if you crank up the volume past the 2o'clock position.*
> 
> I find the best stock amp STAX makes is the SRM323S, it can be bettered by the SRM007t if the stock tubes are replaced. The SRM727 needs a feedback mod to exceed the 323.
> The KGSSHV is about 4x of the cost of the 323 before taxes and shipping. KGSSHV and Blue Hawaii are my DIY projects for 2015.
> ...


 

 Holy moly. I have the SR-009 with the 006TS here and unless the recording is very low in level, I very rarely crank the volume past 11 o' clock. Plenty loud to my ears.


----------



## Sleepow

lan647 said:


> Holy moly. I have the SR-009 with the 006TS here and unless the recording is very low in level, I very rarely crank the volume past 11 o' clock. Plenty loud to my ears.




I think when I tried the 009 with the 007ta, I was at 3+ o'clock, as being in an audio shop I needed that to really be able to not be distracted by outside noise.
I am not sure how loud I would use it at home, but maybe 2 o'clock is not a stretch.

I noticed on the 727 that I did not need to crank the volume as high.


----------



## Sleepow

b0bb said:


> I find the best stock amp STAX makes is the SRM323S, it can be bettered by the SRM007t if the stock tubes are replaced. The SRM727 needs a feedback mod to exceed the 323.
> The KGSSHV is about 4x of the cost of the 323 before taxes and shipping. KGSSHV and Blue Hawaii are my DIY projects for 2015.




I will have to try the 323 then.
Here it would cost me around USD500, so all things included, we are looking at a 15* price ratio for the BHSE.
Money is a deciding factor, but the convenience of a locally sourced product (for service) might matter more than just the cost.
I am starting to regret not paying attention in my electrical engineering classes....


----------



## davidsh

lan647 said:


> b0bb said:
> 
> 
> > If you found the SR009 on the SRM007t not as resolving as the HD800, that is my opinion as well, in stock form the SRM007t is quite average, *it falls apart if you crank up the volume past the 2o'clock position.*
> ...


 
 006 has 60 dB gain while the 007 has a gain of 54 dB I think.
  
 On my t1 I listen at 10 o'clock, give or take, depending on earspeaker. At a meet I listened between 12-1 o'clock when listening loud with the sr-009 on 727 and 007t.


----------



## b0bb

lan647 said:


> Holy moly. I have the SR-009 with the 006TS here and unless the recording is very low in level, I very rarely crank the volume past 11 o' clock. Plenty loud to my ears.


 

 My listening level on the 007t is a little past 12 o'clock, on the 323 it is around 10 o'clock.
  
 The break up check is to see how much real headroom I have on a particular amp.


----------



## Lan647

b0bb said:


> My listening level on the 007t is a little past 12 o'clock, on the 323 it is around 10 o'clock.
> 
> The break up check is to see how much real headroom I have on a particular amp.


 

 In my experience, my ears start to complain before the 006TS runs out of steam with the 407/009.


----------



## Scottsmrnyc

Hi everyone at Headfi. I just wanted to let you know that I am still enjoying all my Stax headphone and amplifier equipment. I have been absent from headfi for a couple of months; but now I am back. I look forward to getting into the swing of things again and blogging with all of you soon.


----------



## arnaud

Hi Scott, when are you coming back to Japan, maybe Stax wants an interview again 
 hope you're well,arnaud


----------



## Ali-Pacha

And whenever you want to sell one of your 4070...well... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## Scottsmrnyc

Hi Arnaud and all my other friends. I was just in Sydney, Australia for ten days. This was my vacation of the year. I looked for some audio stuff to do in Sydney but could only find a cd/vinyl record store chain and a nice guitar shop in the downtown shopping area. I was right on the corner for the Sydney Hostage Seige on my last day in Sydney. I am thinking Shanghai for my next big trip; but not in 2015.  I am not up date on the latest and the greatest in headphone audio. Because of all my travels for audio, Peter Bruenninger of AV Showrooms has nominated me to one of the candidates for Audiophile Of The Year. Nothing further has happened with this award so far. I do remain humble.


----------



## cucera

ali-pacha said:


> And whenever you want to sell one of your 4070...well...
> 
> Ali




Yes the 4070 is really a special thing. For me simply the best closed headphones.


----------



## dukeskd

When did we last see a 4070 on sale?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

2-3 units each year on HF...and don't talk about price !

Ali


----------



## Ali-Pacha

cucera said:


> Yes the 4070 is really a special thing. For me simply the best closed headphones.


 
 Don't be cruel... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## Sorrodje

Hello all,
  
 So ,I have my SR404 for two weeks now and I enjoy what I hear 
  
 I jsute noticed a bass increase when I move apart slightly the bottom or the upper part of the cups of my head. Did somenone noticed the same effect ? Does that signify my pads are a bit too worns despite they seem to look good ?  Does anyone knows Which Lambdas' pads are deepest ?
  
 Thks


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Well known effect, indeed. Used in Sigma's to get kind of loudness FR.
 Deepest pads are old synthetics ones (Lambda NB, Lambda Pro), but I'm not quite sure SR-202/207 ones are exactly the same. http://www.electromod.co.uk is your source, BTW.

 Ali


----------



## kothganesh

sorrodje said:


> Hello all,
> 
> So ,I have my SR404 for two weeks now and I enjoy what I hear
> 
> ...


 

 Have the same experience with my 009....Glad to know I was not losing my mind !


----------



## Sorrodje

Thks Mates 
  
 @Ali-Pacha ! yep that's exactly this : Kind of Loudness effect. Not really accurate but fun ! .
  
 I was just afraid that mt SR404 had some flaws which denaturate its stock Soungd sig but if it's not the case, it's ok. I much prefer to listen headphones at their vanilla state.


----------



## Jodet

Question for folks who may have heard both: 
  
 Are current production 407's about the same as the 507's?    Or are the 507's still noticeably better?  
  
 All comments welcome.


----------



## Mikenet

I have a pair of Stax SR-5 Gold that recently developed a 'honky midrange' in the right channel. If I tap on the left cup, it sounds normal/dampened. If I tap on the right cup, it resonates and has a similar honkey sound to when music is played. So it seems (and I'm hoping) it's just an old cup that can be fixed up, rather than the driver itself. 
  
 I can't figure out though, for the life of me, how to open the things. There are a few screws I can remove, but after that, I can't get the cups open. I might just be too gentle/paranoid, but if anyone has any tips, I'd appreciate them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Got some fresh pads recently...so hopefully I can bring them back to working order and get those on, too.
  
 - Michael


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Take off the pads. You may have two small glue squares that hold them.
 Then 3 screws to unscrew. It opens without any problem.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/7965#post_4685791
  
 On my SR-5, drivers are glued on the grid, but there's no glue on my SR-5 NB, and they look like on the previous link (SR-3 BTW).

 Ali


----------



## edstrelow

zolkis said:


> Few realize that the changes described between the "old" and "new" 009 _may_ also be caused by slightly different ear pad materials (leather, pleather, foam) as a result of a possible change in sourcing. This would more plausible then a latent diaphragm or driver change. I definitely hear differences between the old (softer) and new 007 pads, the 007 Mk II pads, and the (new?) 009 pads. Bass, treble, midrange - all can change.
> 
> It is also possible there are small manufacturing shifts, and few people can check many 009's in the same conditions in order to verify manufacturing tolerances. Now that number is rising, and we see the same phenomenon like with the alleged HD800 differences (there too, the most criticised area, the treble was claimed to be addressed), but whether this is random, or a tendency, could not be determined with the HD800, and I bet it will be the case with the 009 as well. But at least now we have one more variable to handle in testimonies coming from various sources.




You may be correct here. My experiments with sorbethane show that even adding a bit of this for damping can give notable changes in sound. I would expect that even minor construction changes could cause detectable sound changes.


----------



## padam

dukeskd said:


> When did we last see a 4070 on sale?


 
 Well, there is one right now at yahoo auctions, don't expect them to end up cheaply, it's been quite a few months since I saw a pair...


----------



## Don Quichotte

Talking about earpads... Does anybody know why the open cell foam of the old style lambda series earpads disintegrates over time? More specifically, does it happen somehow in relation to the usage (bacteria taken from the scalp or something...), or it disintegrates just as well by just sitting in the box without having ever been used? I want to buy a pair of old style replacement pads (they just sound better to my ears) and I was wondering if buying 2 pairs would make sense or I would risk finding the second pair, several years from now, sitting in its box with the foam all rotten?
  
 I would appreciate any info on this. Thanks!


----------



## Scottsmrnyc

The only thing I can say about the deterioration of the foam like earpads in the Lambda or Sigmas is that these headphones are well over 35 years in age. If I am not mistaken the Lambdas and the Sigmas started in the late 1970s. I think the deteriortion is just the natural decay of the materials used. It is unrealistic to think that they should survive for so long in their original condition.


----------



## Michgelsen

I think it is likely that the thin walls or pipes forming the foam structure become brittle over time and therefore collapse under the slightest pressure during use. So while you could use old foam that still looks like new, I think the foam would probably disintegrate immediately when you start using it. Storing it in the dark and in a constant climate would probably help in preserving it.


----------



## padam

don quichotte said:


> Talking about earpads... Does anybody know why the open cell foam of the old style lambda series earpads disintegrates over time? More specifically, does it happen somehow in relation to the usage (bacteria taken from the scalp or something...), or it disintegrates just as well by just sitting in the box without having ever been used? I want to buy a pair of old style replacement pads (they just sound better to my ears) and I was wondering if buying 2 pairs would make sense or I would risk finding the second pair, several years from now, sitting in its box with the foam all rotten?
> 
> I would appreciate any info on this. Thanks!


 
 Yes they will crumble over time although a bit slower. No big deal as long as debris does not get into the driver (you can gently blow those  off the dust cover)


----------



## Don Quichotte

scottsmrnyc said:


> The only thing I can say about the deterioration of the foam like earpads in the Lambda or Sigmas is that these headphones are well over 35 years in age. If I am not mistaken the Lambdas and the Sigmas started in the late 1970s. I think the deteriortion is just the natural decay of the materials used. It is unrealistic to think that they should survive for so long in their original condition.


 
  No, of course, but it already happened twice for me in less than 10 years (since I bought my (new) SR-303).
  


michgelsen said:


> I think it is likely that the thin walls or pipes forming the foam structure become brittle over time and therefore collapse under the slightest pressure during use. So while you could use old foam that still looks like new, I think the foam would probably disintegrate immediately when you start using it. Storing it in the dark and in a constant climate would probably help in preserving it.


 
  
 That's what I think too. Except for the last part, because I've been storing a pair of (used, but with the foam in good condition initially) earpads for a couple of years in their box only to find them with the foam crumbled a few weeks ago when I needed to use them as replacements. Dark and constant climate and all.
  


padam said:


> Yes they will crumble over time although a bit slower. No big deal as long as debris does not get into the driver (you can gently blow those  off the dust cover)


 
  
 That was my experience indeed. I was just hoping that maybe with a never used pair of pads things would turn out differently. So I'll just buy a single pair of old style pads (they are NOS, so this is probably going to be the last time I find them available anywhere) and resign myself to the inevitable hunt for the replacing foam 4 or 5 years from now (or finding another material that would sound just as well - rather unlikely, I've already tried a few with no success; I dislike Stax' own woven cloth replacement, it's acoustically less transparent). As many have already stated, the pads make a very significant sound difference in my experience too. IMO, YMMV and all.
  
 Well, thank you all for your help!


----------



## schorsch

Hello SROO7 MK2 owners

I personally was satisfied after I got my Pawel HP-1. This Unit makes a bigger difference than every amp I own.

Regards Georg


----------



## gilency

Where did you purchase your Pawel?


----------



## schorsch

Hello,

I bought it in Saarbrücken in Germany.

Regards Georg


----------



## VandyMan

I received my 009s a few days before Christmas. I am using an Auralic Vega DAC and a modded Stax 727ii amp. I could not be happier! Maybe I'll get a tube amp in the future, but it feels like a very low priority right now. I feel so lucky to have this setup. Truly wonderful.


----------



## realmassy

vandyman said:


> I received my 009s a few days before Christmas. I am using an Auralic Vega DAC and a modded Stax 727ii amp. I could not be happier! Maybe I'll get a tube amp in the future, but it feels like a very low priority right now. I feel so lucky to have this setup. Truly wonderful.




Recommendations to buy a better amp coming in 3...2...1 

Don't worry about them, enjoy your new toy and congrats on your purchase! Happy new year


----------



## Sleepow

Hello,

So after months of thinking over it, I have decided to go with the 009 over the HD800.
From the beginning the amp wad my issue as I can only get stock Stax amps at the moment. But I decided to go for it and upgrade the amp whenever it is easier, or I become ok with the pain of getting a better amp.

So the question remains, what is the better stax stock amp to get? Is there any consensus?
I will also have to investigate the source, but there are more choices there, so that is a question for later.

Cheers,
Cedric


----------



## davidsh

sleepow said:


> Hello,
> 
> So after months of thinking over it, I have decided to go with the 009 over the HD800.
> From the beginning the amp wad my issue as I can only get stock Stax amps at the moment. But I decided to go for it and upgrade the amp whenever it is easier, or I become ok with the pain of getting a better amp.
> ...


 
 Consensus: Modded 727 (or stock 717), else the 323


----------



## Sleepow

davidsh said:


> Consensus: Modded 727 (or stock 717), else the 323




Thank you,
Modded is not an option either for me, so I guess it should be the 323 until I decide how to proceed, which will also make it less painful to just replace few months down the line as it is rather cheap (for an amp used with top of the line headphones ).


----------



## n3rdling

If you guys have a soldering iron, you can do the SRM-727 mod for a clear upgrade.  It's easy to do and doesn't take long.


----------



## rgs9200m

I still recommend the 009 with the 007t/ii amp, start with stock, then upgrade to the RCA clear-top tubes. So not quite a consensus yet...
 I've had this for several months now and feel that it is a live and natural sound, nice and musical with very clear somewhat deep bass (deeper than HD800s to me), and it does not make me cringe at all at any volume (even very high volume).
 I also hear a tube signature with this setup (hard to put into words, but it's like some inner light and fullness and expansion in each note that makes me a tube fan).
 I have not heard the 009 driven by a purely solid state amp, but I speculate that this phone benefits from tube bloom.
 The staging has some decent layering in a smallish front-to-back plane (the z-axis), but it's not cavernous. Maybe a better amp can achieve this. But for me, I can live without this and accept the unmatched (to me so far)
 realistic tonality and speed of the 009 as all the greatness I need.
 The 009 reminds me of my old Apogee Stage ribbon speakers I used to own in the 1990s [before they self-destructed  ...] in that they sounded one step closer to the musical objects being right there and not behind any shield of any sort.
  
 (Note: I've had the 009s with this amp for about 2 years now, but I upgraded the tubes a few months ago. The new tubes were a big improvement, especially in the highs, mellowing them out so now they sound just right.)


----------



## Michgelsen

sleepow said:


> Thank you,
> Modded is not an option either for me, so I guess it should be the 323 until I decide how to proceed, which will also make it less painful to just replace few months down the line as it is rather cheap (for an amp used with top of the line headphones ).


 
  
 Don't rule out a second-hand 717. It's the former top-of-the-line Stax amp, or maybe it still is. And if you do upgrade within a few months, you'll also be able sell it at (almost) no loss. There are also some 717's available with a voltage selector on the back, making an international resale here on head-fi very easy.


----------



## astrostar59

I recommend finding a second hand 717. Then when you are ready sell it on and get a none Stax amp.
 The 717 is better than the stock 727 and the 323.


----------



## Lan647

SRM-T1, 006T/TS should work fine as well for the 009.


----------



## rgs9200m

By the way, there is talk that the newest SR009 is more mellow, so it might be better with the amps that could be problematic with the highs. So a stock Stax amp could work well-- just speculating here.


----------



## n3rdling

That rumor was shot down by Stax.  We'll have to wait for more community measurements to see if there is a change or not.  I'm guessing the drivers are exactly the same but the pads are a little different.


----------



## Michgelsen

n3rdling said:


> That rumor was shot down by Stax.


 
  
 Could you please provide a link to the source for that?


----------



## arnaud

See anakchan's post, he talked to them at a recent e-earphone festival here.


----------



## bearFNF

michgelsen said:


> Could you please provide a link to the source for that?


 
  
  


arnaud said:


> See anakchan's post, he talked to them at a recent e-earphone festival here.


 

 here's a link to it, post #4007
http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/4005#post_11148380


----------



## Keithpgdrb

What is the going fair price for the SR-5 Gold by itself?  Looking to make an offer and I don't want to be the A-hole lowballer. Supposed to be in great condition and work correctly. (assuming no imbalance)


----------



## Michgelsen

bearfnf said:


> here's a link to it, post #4007
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/4005#post_11148380


 
  
 Thank you!


----------



## jaycalgary

Sure the 009's treble isn't mellowing out on its own with age?


----------



## HemiSam

Has anyone used a Woo WEE to allow a dynamic amp to power their electrostats?  The amp in question is 50W per channel.  Wondering if this would be a good solution vs say an SRM-323s.
  
 Thanks.
  
 HS


----------



## n3rdling

You can get a SRD7 for much less on eBay and it does the same thing. If you have 500 to spend though, you can buy a pretty nice stax amp.


----------



## HemiSam

n3rdling said:


> You can get a SRD7 for much less on eBay and it does the same thing. If you have 500 to spend though, you can buy a pretty nice stax amp.


 
  
 Thanks for posting this.  Did not realize Stax produced adapters.  I was looking into several Stax amps and the SRM-323s came recommended and looks to be a good option.  The 323 new from Japan and a transformer is clearly a solid option for not a lot of money.  Then I came upon an interesting option where the WEE became viable so thought I would ask.  
  
 HS


----------



## edstrelow

anakchan said:


> I did just now at the e-earphone Headphone Festival. As others have alluded to, Stax official stance is "No change".y would say that wouldn't they.


 
 As a famous British tart put it, they would say that wouldn't they.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

SR-009 and Lambda line-up do sound very good out of Stax amps, but SR-009 will obviously scale up with better amplification.
 Omega and SR-007mk1 (you may also add Sigma Pro) are very power hungry, and you need at least an 717 / 727 (preferably modded) to move them.
 Stax did change the SR-007 to mk2 with a more boomy FR. Maybe it was a way to get something more engaging on lesser amps : SR007mk1 can sound pretty flat out of small amps.

 Ali


----------



## NoPants

hemisam said:


> Thanks for posting this.  Did not realize Stax produced adapters.  I was looking into several Stax amps and the SRM-323s came recommended and looks to be a good option.  The 323 new from Japan and a transformer is clearly a solid option for not a lot of money.  Then I came upon an interesting option where the WEE became viable so thought I would ask.
> 
> HS


 
  
 I've heard the SRD-7 out of both tube and solid-state power amplifiers and I would recommend the latter, but I might be biased.
  
 In general I would avoid them, but I've gotten good results out of simple class-d amplification and those transformer boxes.
  
 For under 1k you can build your own step-up transformer with whatever iron you like and a fancy bias supply. I haven't gone down this route but someone out there owns spritzer's lundahl box. Makes me wonder if there's an amplifier topology out there specifically for step-up transformer loads. Makes me think back to college days of LNA design...before I dropped that haha


----------



## zolkis

Quote:


nopants said:


> I've heard the SRD-7 out of both tube and solid-state power amplifiers and I would recommend the latter, but I might be biased.



  
 I also heard them and I prefer the tubes - however, it depends a lot on the tube selection. SS sounded pretty nice, but with somewhat reduced sound stage. If you already have a good speaker amp, the SRD-7 is surprisingly good, despite the tiny plain looking transformers. I wonder how high bandwidth transformers would sound, but they are quite expensive, which defies the purpose of a transformer solution, especially when compared to a used or DIY built KGSSHV.
  
 Quote:


nopants said:


> For under 1k you can build your own step-up transformer with whatever iron you like and a fancy bias supply. I haven't gone down this route but someone out there owns spritzer's lundahl box. Makes me wonder if there's an amplifier topology out there specifically for step-up transformer loads. Makes me think back to college days of LNA design...before I dropped that haha


 
  
 I am actually waiting for such a HP amp+source switcher, circlotron-like circuit with GaAs or hopefully GaN transistors (awaiting samples, a long process), custom transformers (not sure about the ratio), and RK50 volume control, still around $1K in cost for the proto, in hardwood box. I hope to compare it to a KGSSHV when I get it.
 With GaAs/GaN transistors, a high voltage amp could also be made, IIRC Dr Gilmore has such a design in cooking. Also, there was an interesting post about transformer coupling with 1:1 or 1:2 ratio instead of the 1:20-1:25 of the SRD-7. Finally, we heard that Eric had good results with the Verto box, quite cost efficient solution - but you need a good speaker amp, and even then this suits people who primarily listen to speakers.
  
 For sole headphone usage, I would target a used KGSSHV, and be done.


----------



## HemiSam

Thanks for the input, gents!  I only recently took the dive into e-stats and have been reading all I can here.  I was surprised by how much I have enjoyed the Koss ESP-950's.  Not a Stax but it has been an eye opener all the same.  My gut is telling me they would improve, especially down low, with more amplification.  Unfortunately, I am a bit space limited so I have been looking for solutions that are not too large and the Stax amps fit the bill.
  
 The quesiton about the Woo WEE came up as I was looking at a one box solution that has speaker outs and thought that may also be viable.  The Stax transformers were a revelation so thank you for that.  They are not all that common apparently as I don't see all that many for sale, especially with the Pro out.  If I go with the solution that has speaker outs, then the Stax transformer will definitely be a great cost effective option with not a big foot print.
  
 Learning a lot from this thread...thanks to all for sharing your experiences and knowledge!
  
 HS


----------



## Michgelsen

Spritzer used to offer some little PCBs for sale to upgrade the normal bias Stax transformer boxes to pro bias. I don't know if he still has them; maybe you could ask him, for example via Mjölnir Audio. The normal bias transformer boxes were (in the past at least) much cheaper than the pro ones.


----------



## headinclouds

The KGST is a very acceptable addition to the ranks of amps for Staxes.  My version is now finished.
  
 This one has been built with the same approach as used on my KGSShv builds and it sounds very good indeed. 
  
 It runs cooler as it has a bigger heat-sink inside.  The appearance has received favourable comments and is the result of the design input of www.incredibledesign.co.uk


----------



## cucera

headinclouds said:


> The KGST is a very acceptable addition to the ranks of amps for Staxes.  My version is now finished.
> 
> This one has been built with the same approach as used on my KGSShv builds and it sounds very good indeed.
> 
> It runs cooler as it has a bigger heat-sink inside.  The appearance has received favourable comments and is the result of the design input of Julian Hoyes of incredibledesign.co.uk




Beautiful!!!


----------



## mulveling

Damn, that is one beautiful KGST build -- and I *love* that purple indicator light!
  
 From what I've heard from the KGST so far, I love its midrange, as it's slightly warmer and fleshier than the KGSShv there. However, I also prefer the KGSShv's smoother treble when paired with the SR-009. My ears are particularly sensitive around the brightness region, which is one reason I can't deal with the HD800. Wish I could combine these two excellent Stax amps' attributes into one.


----------



## Michgelsen

Wow headinclouds, that really is a beautiful build! Do you like it better than the KGSSHV?


----------



## headinclouds

Thank you  for your kind comments.  The short answer is I like it just as much as the KGSShv.  It is not the same but similarly musically satisfying to me.
 I listen to music and some radio and TV drama.  I forget I am listening to an amp and get very engrossed.
 I have not yet built a rack for my amps so I do not compare them  directly.  When listening to the KGST for the past few months I have not longed to hear the others , but when I warm up a KGSShv  I am thrilled with that too.


----------



## HemiSam

That amp is a stunner, HIC.  Kudos for having the wherewithal to put together something effective, as well as, aesthetically appealing...very professional looking.
  
 I am capable mechanically.  On the other hand, my soldering iron and meter and I feel no love...chuckle.  I do what I need to with my hobby car electronically, especially as it's a late model car that's hellishly complex from a systems perspective, but the mechanical is far more intuitive for me.  
  
 Golf clap....
  
  





  
 HS


----------



## n3rdling

Really nice build, what chassis is that?
  
 mulveling, get a Megatron


----------



## Michgelsen

headinclouds said:


> (...) but when I warm up *a* KGSShv (...)


 
  
 As in: one of many!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Edit: this seems appropriate...


----------



## Faithless

Hi guys...

Anyone can help me with one question.
007 MK2 SZ3 + SRM 323A is a good matching?

Thanks...


----------



## mulveling

n3rdling said:


> mulveling, get a Megatron


 
 Yes...much as I love my KGSShv, visions of a Megatron or a T2 or even a BHSE torture me at night. Haven't actually heard a Megatron yet (it's about the only cool thing Purk doesn't own), but I imagine it would be somewhere between a BHSE and T2 on the awesomeness spectrum, at least.
  


michgelsen said:


> As in: one of many!?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks to Purk, I've now heard *five* different builds of KGSShv. All the major variants: IXYS 500V, Sanyo 450V, 400V mini, 400V almost mini, off-board, on-board, high current, etc. The KGSShv is simply a wonderful design.


----------



## Rossliew

@mulveling , regarding the KGSSHv, were you able to hear discernible differences between a 400V and 450V, for example?


----------



## TheAttorney

> After 3 nights with my new 009s, I already have a strong preference, but  I've stopped comparing with my 007 mk1s on BHSE now and will just enjoy listening to music for an extended period..... I'll report back in a few weeks time.


 
  
 After 3-ish weeks of living solely with my new 009s, I went back to my much loved 007 Mk1s to confirm the winner (as a one-headphone-fits-all kinda guy, there can only be one winner). My impressions of the two 'phones at the end of this "trial" were the same as at the beginning: the 009s are clearly better on just about any SQ parameter I can think of (bar one consideration). I mentioned before that comparing these two in terms of tonal brightness/darkness is a gross oversimplification, so here I'll cover a couple of parameters not mentioned as often:
  
 The 009's have simply stunning lower mid to bass performance. They're pretty stunning higher up too, but the clarity and focus in the lower mid to bass regions really highlights the 007s main weaknesses IMO, making the latter seem thick and muddy in comparison - in fact, quite hard to go back to. It's not a tonal thing, it's about clarity, focus, transparency, dynamics.
  
 Others have said that the 009s have a bigger sound stage, which is true, but what I particularly noticed was how clearly all the secondary images were laid out within that larger sound stage, which gave them more equal billing with the main central vocal image. This leads me to the one consideration: It's quite easy to get  distracted by all that extra secondary detail - and thereby forget to listen to the actual musical performance. With the 007s (and just about every other 'phone I've heard) the secondary images recede relatively backstage to the central vocals, so are less likely to distract.
  
 The solution is quite simple: stop marveling at the details and start following the musical performance - I've made this mental switch a number of times mid-track and the extra detail then merely serves to enhance the performance.
  
 So, are the 009s perfect? Not quite. I'd still like them to have a slightly darker overall presentation, and I'm not the only one who's unimpressed by that over-sized plastic arc mechanism. And highly panned left or right images feel like they're being directly injected into my ear. But for the foreseeable future, they're perfect enough for me. My 007s have been long-term relegated to their storage case, as the best emergency back-up headphones ever.
  
 YMMV. I listen at modest levels (mid-70s-80s db), my hearing tails off after 13KHz, and the rest of my system has been carefully chosen to control excessive brightness. As others have said, the 009s are transparent enough to show up deficiencies elsewhere in the chain.


----------



## negura

theattorney said:


>


 
  
 I agree with the majority of your impressions. I would however not prefer the 009s to be darker sounding. But this is, I guess, as much preference as it is system dependent. If there's a comparative downside to the 009s, for me, it's not a comparison within the electrostatic headphones realm. I would prefer them to be more visceral sounding, more akin to speakers or some planar headphones. Not easy to describe.


----------



## gilency

Megatron sounds better than the KGSSHV. I have listened to the BHSE many times, but have not compared it directly with the BHSE, although I believe they are equals.


----------



## mulveling

rossliew said:


> @mulveling , regarding the KGSSHv, were you able to hear discernible differences between a 400V and 450V, for example?


 
 Yes; my favorite with SR-009 is the 450V. It's not night-and-day, but it's notably the warmest of them. Paired with a slightly warm DAC (Eximus DP-1), the cumulative result has the 009 nailing my ideals of neutrality, whereas other setups have it as various shades of mildly bright (still very good though). It's definitely debatable whether this is something you want to do to the 009 -- fighting a transducer's natural tonality too much is almost always a bad thing -- but I've been liking the result for a while now.
  
 As you can imagine, this setup is quite suboptimal for the 007 Mk I -- way too warm/dark. I do like the 500V builds I've heard with that headphone (and also a NAD M51 over Eximus there too), but the optimal 009 pairing is a higher priority for me because I like the 009 best. 007 is where the BHSE really shines, though.


----------



## Lan647

gilency said:


> Megatron sounds better than the KGSSHV. I have listened to the BHSE many times, but have not compared it directly with the BHSE, although I believe they are equals.




To which version of Megatron are you referring? 






(Sorry, couldn't resist )


----------



## David1961

theattorney said:


> So, are the 009s perfect? Not quite. I'd still like them to have a slightly darker overall presentation, and I'm not the only one who's unimpressed by that over-sized plastic arc mechanism.




I was also unimpressed with that plastic arc mechanism, not so much with how it works, but with how it looks, which is why I did something about it.


----------



## NoPants

Megatron is certainly a step up from the KGSSHV, and I think it's better suited for the 009s
  
 Also a space heater, but what isn't


----------



## astrostar59

I can't comment on the Megatron, but I am very happy with my KGSShv 450v 10 amp off-board. It is quite a warm amp as I compared it directly to David's BHSE and they were very close tonally, but with different flavours. Both were top SQ. The 009s are so transparent I think you need not so much a warm source, though that may help, but a very smooth source especially in the treble region. I guess the same would apply to big expensive speakers, a revealing transducer to play what is there, no compromises or masking of the source.
  
 IMO a lot of DACs may be at fault on 009 rigs. I had problems with my system for years before I got the 007s then then 009s. It was just too digital sounding. There are some great DACs out there, but many that are so so, too Hi-fi sounding IMO. The stat amp plays a big part, but once you get to the level of the BHSE or KGSShv it gets to be less of an issue than the source I think. No doubt others will disagree, but it is what I have experienced myself in this absorbing (and expensive) hobby. FWIW I would look at that, the DAC, the 009s to me are perfect, the sound can be changed a lot or tweaked a bit with a source change, it depends what you are after or how far away it is to your idea of perfection for your type of music.
  
 The 009s just seem to bang it out no matter what type of music is fed to them. I think they are a remarkable device, possibly a milestone in music products, as big as the original Orpheus was in it's day, maybe bigger, as more people are buying and enjoying the 009s. It is not the mile high exclusive club, rather the regular music lover who buys such a headphone. And unlike that headphone, it is being enjoyed on various stat amps.


----------



## negura

I agree DACs have an essential role to the results out of very transparent headphones/amps. My experience with the same KGSSHV but swapping the PWD2 with the Theta Gen V A (R2R DAC), I am finding the 009s react immediately and the textures and tonality are at a whole different level. It is a very musically satisfying experience.
  
 That said I still like the PWD2 for all it does well.


----------



## astrostar59

negura said:


> I agree DACs have an essential role to the results out of very transparent headphones/amps. My experience with the same KGSSHV but swapping the PWD2 with the Theta Gen V A (R2R DAC), I am finding the 009s react immediately and the textures and tonality are at a whole different level. It is a very musically satisfying experience.
> 
> That said I still like the PWD2 for all it does well.


 
 I agree Negura.
  
 On the Theta DAC, Im not sure it is R-2R?
 http://hometheaterreview.com/theta-pro-gen-v-a-digital-to-analog-converter-reviewed/


----------



## Failed Engineer

negura said:


> I agree DACs have an essential role to the results out of very transparent headphones/amps. My experience with the same KGSSHV but swapping the PWD2 with the Theta Gen V A (R2R DAC), I am finding the 009s react immediately and the textures and tonality are at a whole different level. It is a very musically satisfying experience.
> 
> That said I still like the PWD2 for all it does well.


 
  
 I could not possibly agree more.  I recently picked up a vintage R2R DAC, the Proceed PDP-2 with replaced caps and other various upgrades, and while it was never considered TOTL when it was originally manufactured, it absolutely beats the pants off of all the delta-sigma DACs I've rolled through and it is clearly better than the Metrum Hex, which I recently sold.
  
 My SR-009 through my KGSSHV was a completely different beast in terms of tonality and texture-wise on the PDP-2.  My HD800 (driven by the ECP L-2) was better but not all that different.  I originally thought there was little difference between the SR-009 and HD800 on the Hex and Anedio D2, but with a better DAC the gulf has widened significantly, IMO.


----------



## zolkis

theattorney said:


> After 3-ish weeks of living solely with my new 009s, I went back to my much loved 007 Mk1s to confirm the winner
> (...)
> The 009's have simply stunning lower mid to bass performance. They're pretty stunning higher up too, but the clarity and focus in the lower mid to bass regions really highlights the 007s main weaknesses IMO, making the latter seem thick and muddy in comparison - in fact, quite hard to go back to. It's not a tonal thing, it's about clarity, focus, transparency, dynamics.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This aligns with my impressions of the 009 vs the stock 007 Mk1. I really appreciate that you have spent long enough time with both for making a verdict, and I think this makes it quite valuable. Now the way you expressed the differences triggered a thought... You may remember that I am using 009 pads on the 007. The differences you describe here apply pretty well to the pad change from 007 pads to 009 pads. I am not saying that the 007 becomes like a 009 by using a 009 pad- the 009 has a larger and thinner membrane and different driver, and it's logically expected to have more resolution, better stage and better bass; what I am saying is if someone likes the 007 but wants it more open, with wider and more clear imaging, with a slightly different but still better bass, try the 009 pads. It's a move in the right direction. I know that it changes to volume the 007 membrane has to move, etc - but it just sounds better to me.
  
 I didn't stop at that, and after some hesitation, I have changed the internal foam of the 009 pads to a similar shape carbon foam pad filling I "developed" for my Fostex TH900. This is a fully reversible mod on the otherwise horribly expensive 009 ear pads. The sound changed in the same direction it did with the TH900, a veil was lifted, and the sound became so open and detailed that it was almost too much midrange detail. I was fine with it, discovering new layers and lights of the music, and bass improved too, but I was missing the speaker-like physical low end punch of the TH900. I could trade-off some midrange for more and deeper bass impact. After many days, I managed to form a foam size/shape that does what I hoped for: the bass now had much more perceived low end energy compared to what it was, and the overall sound was still very transparent and open. What I want to mention here: in the process of cutting off half mm chunks of material from the carbon foam, I noticed a strangely big sound stage change around a certain threshold, and that I could describe it very much alike you did with the "secondary images": the sound stage just snapped open, as previously isolated lateral sound information blended into the whole, creating a huge, wide, deep and tall, contiguous, very enjoyable sound stage. The effect depends on recording, but with some recordings (e.g. Stockfisch label) the difference was kind of on/off.
  
 I intended to make a post about this, with pictures, but let me still test it for a longer while.
  
 The question begs to be asked, how far is now my modded 007 Mk1 from the 009, and it's no easy one - I hope to find out soonish, the nearest head-fi buddy is a flight away from me, but it's hard to find time. However, my 007 sounds so good now that I don't feel much inclination to just find out that I need to double my headphone investment , when I am still in a new honeymoon with my 007. At least I would not like to trade this kind of bass I am hearing for what I remember from the 009, even though it was better than the stock 007... My TH900 and my speakers are not getting much listening time nowadays.
  
 In turn, and that's likely even more interesting question: how would the 009 sound with my modded 009 pads? Both on the TH900 and 007, the carbon foam seems to change the sound in a similar direction, which most 009 owners may like: more extended, faster and even more transparent bass, bigger and much better defined sound stage, much improved microdynamics (small percussions attack/impact/decay, clarity of piano key hits, body of cello, etc), less muffled and more open sound (which may not be needed for the 009).
  
 I have no idea when I will travel to England next time (I actively avoid traveling nowadays), but if any of you 009 owners come near Helsinki, remember you are welcome to an audition.


----------



## paradoxper

nopants said:


> Megatron is certainly a step up from the KGSSHV, and I think it's better suited for the 009s
> 
> Also a space heater, but what isn't


 
 I've been way curious about the Megatron, but the T2 has engulfed my wallet.  
 Do you like the MT more than KGST with the 009?


----------



## n3rdling

Good to see more people getting and enjoying R2R DACs, feels like some of us have been shouting about them on deaf ears for a few years now.


----------



## NoPants

paradoxper said:


> I've been way curious about the Megatron, but the T2 has engulfed my wallet.
> Do you like the MT more than KGST with the 009?


 
 I prefer the megatron with the 009 because it handles vocals and treble well, as far as I can tell. Might run a bit too hot to use outside of winter though.


----------



## astrostar59

failed engineer said:


> I could not possibly agree more.  I recently picked up a vintage R2R DAC, the Proceed PDP-2 with replaced caps and other various upgrades, and while it was never considered TOTL when it was originally manufactured, it absolutely beats the pants off of all the delta-sigma DACs I've rolled through and it is clearly better than the Metrum Hex, which I recently sold.
> 
> My SR-009 through my KGSSHV was a completely different beast in terms of tonality and texture-wise on the PDP-2.  My HD800 (driven by the ECP L-2) was better but not all that different.  I originally thought there was little difference between the SR-009 and HD800 on the Hex and Anedio D2, but with a better DAC the gulf has widened significantly, IMO.


 
 I agree here. R-2R none oversampling ladder type DACs can beat the pants of many of the later top of the line Delta-Sigma offerings. More folk should give it a try, it changed my system in a big way for the better. NOS DACs with tubes can sound remarkable IMO.


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


>


 


> Yes...much as I love my KGSShv, visions of a Megatron or a T2 or even a BHSE torture me at night. Haven't actually heard a Megatron yet (it's about the only cool thing Purk doesn't own), but I imagine it would be somewhere between a BHSE and T2 on the awesomeness spectrum, at least.


 
 IMO the KGSShv off-board Sanyo 450v is really close to the BHSE as regards SQ level attained. They are different animals, I thought the KGSShv better on rock and dance, the BHSE better on classical and acoustic material. But it was close. I could live with either and be happy. The big deal about a KGSShv for me is I can leave it on, and have less tube hassles. Also it can cost a lot less to build or commission than a BHSE, though not to take away from that amp, it is a classic and timeless piece. If I was drowning in cash I would have both, or I would find the money somehow if the BHSE was a big enough sound upgrade.


----------



## Tachikoma

How hot do the KGST and KGSSHV run? Can either unit be used in a small room in summer?


----------



## astrostar59

Yes it can.
  
 This is a good question, as aside from the heat aspect on the case, the internal heat generated by an amplifier has an impact on component life. For example capacitors are rated at voltage and heat tolerance, the higher the heat in an amplifier, the shorter the life of the component. Both the KGSShv and KGSS designed by Kevin G as well thought out in this regards, as long as the specs and design of the case are followed.
  
 The exact case temperature depends though on the value of the amps set on the PS for the particular amp. It is that that creates the heat. Also if it has on-board heat sinks or off-board. The on-board cannot put out as many amps because of this. My KGSShv off-board 10 amp 450v gets warm in winter, and warm-hot in summer but is not too hot to hold your hand on it (I live in South Spain). 
  
 As long as your amp is built to specs and you have it on a rack (top shelf) and away from windows (sun or radiator) it is fine. It is far far away from the scare stories of the original T2. My Stax SRM-717 gets about as hot as my KGSShv even though the later is pumping out a lot more amps. I would estimate the KGSS (Head-amp version) runs about the same temp on the case as my SRM-717.


----------



## HemiSam

I committed to a KGST and I'm stoked.  Loved the design I saw not only of the boards (thanks to Kevin and Birgir) but of the execution of their designs...the quality components used, the inclusion of a heat sink and the case...just a few examples...I was sold.  In my unit the rails will be regulated to 350v, so with that and the sink it should be pretty darn manageable from a heat perspective. Should make my plastic Koss sing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I need to make up an adapter cable now so I can take full advantage of the amp once it arrives.
  
 Can't wait to get my paws on it...
  
  
 HS


----------



## Rossliew

hemisam said:


> I committed to a KGST and I'm stoked.  Loved the design I saw not only of the boards (thanks to Kevin and Birgir) but of the execution of their designs...the quality components used, the inclusion of a heat sink and the case...just a few examples...I was sold.  In my unit the rails will be regulated to 350v, so with that and the sink it should be pretty darn manageable from a heat perspective. Should make my plastic Koss sing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats on your purchase of a very capable and top tier electrostatic amp! I have one myself, bought from Birgir but with higher current output - it runs REAL warm but i'm not complaining  I used to pair it with the ESP950 but you really will not do the amp justice until you have paired it with a Stax, honest to goodness


----------



## HemiSam

rossliew said:


> Congrats on your purchase of a very capable and top tier electrostatic amp! I have one myself, bought from Birgir but with higher current output - it runs REAL warm but i'm not complaining  I used to pair it with the ESP950 but you really will not do the amp justice until you have paired it with a Stax, honest to goodness


 
  
 Dammit...I set myself up for that one...LOL.  That may very well be where I end up eventually.  I listen predominatly to 16/44 through a couple of Senns (my preferred pair are the HD 650's...the 700's are OK but I prefer a warmer/smoother signature) and the Koss.  I don't like sibilance...sharp high end.  I very much enjoy the detail from the Koss and the clarity of the highs and mids.  The low end is OK, and I'm thinking the amp may make it a bit more full but I won't know till I know.
  
 If I were to jump into a pair of Stax, they need to not make my ears bleed up top and be full through the mids and lows...I don't need crazy bass but too thin down low isn't my flavor either.
  
 Feel free to recommend a pair if you have a thought given what I'm looking for if I've communicated my preference clearly.  Thanks.
  
 HS


----------



## Rossliew

hemisam said:


> Dammit...I set myself up for that one...LOL.  That may very well be where I end up eventually.  I listen predominatly to 16/44 through a couple of Senns (my preferred pair are the HD 650's...the 700's are OK but I prefer a warmer/smoother signature) and the Koss.  I don't like sibilance...sharp high end.  I very much enjoy the detail from the Koss and the clarity of the highs and mids.  The low end is OK, and I'm thinking the amp may make it a bit more full but I won't know till I know.
> 
> If I were to jump into a pair of Stax, they need to not make my ears bleed up top and be full through the mids and lows...I don't need crazy bass but too thin down low isn't my flavor either.
> 
> ...


 

 With the hybrid configuration of the KGST, it will tend to sound warmer than perhaps the KGSSHV (this was mentioned by Birgir in his website). And i have paired mine with the SR-007 Mk II, which is also a warmish headphone. I would say you won't hear sibilant highs unless your recording it such. Other than that, the mids and low end is there in spades. It won't boost it but it will show it to all if the recording has it. Sorry my description may not be good enough but this is a transparent set-up but it doesn't sound sterile or flat. It has fulsome sound and i can attest to this even with low-res files. I listen to a lot of Mp3s and 320 kbps rips and they all sound fine to my ears. I was very pleasantly surprised that an electrostatic set-up does not sound thinnish or bass-less


----------



## HemiSam

rossliew said:


> With the hybrid configuration of the KGST, it will tend to sound warmer than perhaps the KGSSHV (this was mentioned by Birgir in his website). And i have paired mine with the SR-007 Mk II, which is also a warmish headphone. I would say you won't hear sibilant highs unless your recording it such. Other than that, the mids and low end is there in spades. It won't boost it but it will show it to all if the recording has it. Sorry my description may not be good enough but this is a transparent set-up but it doesn't sound sterile or flat. It has fulsome sound and i can attest to this even with low-res files. I listen to a lot of Mp3s and 320 kbps rips and they all sound fine to my ears. I was very pleasantly surprised that an electrostatic set-up does not sound thinnish or bass-less


 
  
 Thanks for sharing.  I spent the last few days reading through KGST info which motivated me to pull the trigger.  Impressive stuff.
  
 There's so many Stax cans options and thoughts on them that I have to admit I was getting lost.  I have not spent sufficient time getting educated on them and have no experience with them directly.  I'll have a harder look at the SR-007 Mk II's and see what I can see.
  
 HS


----------



## Rossliew

You could start from the entry level Stax cans and progress from there. The SR-207 is highly regarded but not sure if you can find the cans only as it is usually sold with the matching amp. In any case, good luck and enjoy your audio journey!


----------



## astrostar59

rossliew said:


> You could start from the entry level Stax cans and progress from there. The SR-207 is highly regarded but not sure if you can find the cans only as it is usually sold with the matching amp. In any case, good luck and enjoy your audio journey!


 
 I would go directly to the 007s IMO. The 507s are ok (not too bass shy) but quite a bit behind the 007. The lower models more the other way. I used to have various Lambda models and they were all a bit thin, though open and transparent. If you want to avoid a cold treble, I would go 007s for sure. Great SQ for the money.


----------



## Moonhead

I agree with majority.. Get som 007 

Pretty much matches what you describe.

I'm running some 007 MKI with KGSSHV.


----------



## HemiSam

Thanks for the input, gents!  I've started a bit of reading on the Omegas.  Damn they look sexy...
  
 HS


----------



## Moonhead

This might help you, remember there is 4 different version of the 007.

And be sure to listen to them, before purchasing 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-stax-sr-007


----------



## georgep

moonhead said:


> This might help you, remember there is 4 different version of the 007.
> 
> And be sure to listen to them, before purchasing
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-stax-sr-007




Listening to them can be a challenge. Spent over an hour with another headfier with three different 007 mk1 and my diy-t2, trying discern any differences - 70xxx 71xx and sz1. In the end we could not discern any differences between the 71xx and the sz1, but the 70xx showed a very slight difference (ever so slightly superior to my ears), but then only on a couple of tracks. All three were great, but there is a possibility that variability in the pads (age, wear, etc) was responsible for any differences that were heard. So in all likelihood, unless you have golden ears, you will have a hard time hearing any differences without having other pairs to compare them with for an extended period of time. The mk2 (sz2) on the other hand are immediately different, and not as accurate in the low to mid bass, but nonetheless still a great headphone.


----------



## Moonhead

I was not suggestion listening to them all  

There's is a lot of different opinions on this particular headphone, but almost everybody says that MKI are superior to the MKII, but Spritzer also says MKII is the most reliable version eventhough he clearly prefers His MKI even to the Omega or 009.

I most admit I have not listen to the MKII version myself, but use to own 009 and now own 007 MKI.


----------



## cucera

astrostar59 said:


> I would go directly to the 007s IMO. The 507s are ok (not too bass shy) but quite a bit behind the 007. The lower models more the other way. I used to have various Lambda models and they were all a bit thin, though open and transparent. If you want to avoid a cold treble, I would go 007s for sure. Great SQ for the money.




I would prefere the 207 anyday to the 507 especially when someone is sensitive to treble. But the 007 MK1 is the best warmish can out there (the current MK2.5 sounds off to my ears)


----------



## georgep

moonhead said:


> I was not suggestion listening to them all
> 
> ...




Yes, I know. Just pointing out that they all sound fantastic, and if you are looking for a specific trait that reportedly belongs to one of the fabled versions of the mk1, you will need to do a lot of listening to find it (unless you are already extremely familiar with the sound and are somehow able to pick it up on a single listening session).


----------



## HemiSam

This is useful info for a rook.  Thanks for the link to the review...I'll have a read.
  
 Clearly the MkII's are readily available.  Are the MkI's easy to get a hold of should one want to go in this direction?
  
 HS


----------



## zolkis

There are a couple of them for sale now, check the forums. There seems to be a tendency to upgrade them to 009's, though I'll stick with my 007 a little longer .


----------



## georgep

Yeah, I don't consider the move to 009 to be an upgrade so much as a side-grade from the 007mk1 (when fully amped). They are different and each does some things better than the other. I bought and sold the 009 twice before buying it a third time (still have the third one). I could live without it, but not if I don't have to. Not sure I could live without having a mk1 on hand.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

There's also a tendency to get some 007mk1 to complete a collection with 009. Dough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> IMO the KGSShv off-board Sanyo 450v is really close to the BHSE as regards SQ level attained. They are different animals, I thought the KGSShv better on rock and dance, the BHSE better on classical and acoustic material. But it was close. I could live with either and be happy. The big deal about a KGSShv for me is I can leave it on, and have less tube hassles. Also it can cost a lot less to build or commission than a BHSE, though not to take away from that amp, it is a classic and timeless piece. If I was drowning in cash I would have both, or I would find the money somehow if the BHSE was a big enough sound upgrade.


 
  
 I feel the same way. With an SR-009, the BHSE is more detailed, and the 450V KGSShv is warmer and musical as hell. The typical tubes vs. SS stereotypes need not apply here -- I do still like what tubes do for the midrange, however it's a subtle contrast in this case. However with an SR-007 Mk I, the BHSE makes a perfect pairing that definitely exceeds the KGSShv -- the latter pairing is way too much of a good thing (too warm, dark).
  
 I still feel strongly that the 009 is the better headphone, but the 007/BHSE pairing is a pretty epic sound to have on tap for change of pace.


----------



## HemiSam

The amp I am committed to (and I write this with a smile as I'm pumped about the purchase) is a KGST 350v which will have a Pro 580 bias.  Any opinions on that being a good pairing for the 007 MkI or MkII?  I haven't a clue what a Mk2.5 is yet...I'm assuming the newest MkII but I clearly need to get educated.
  
 HS


----------



## Jon L

ali-pacha said:


> There's also a tendency to get some 007mk1 to complete a collection with 009. Dough
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 So THAT's how I ended up with both


----------



## Moonhead

If you aiming at 007 you May have to reconsider in the amp departement. 

007 are very demanding in clean volts, so maybe you outha get a 450V KGST.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

jon l said:


> So THAT's how I ended up with both


 
 True. Now I've both, and my recently purchased SR-007mk1 makes me understand the need for ironfist amplification. My Sigma Pro are quite easy to move compared to them.
 I placed a BHSE order last may, maybe I'll get it before the end of 2015 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ali


----------



## Jones Bob

moonhead said:


> If you aiming at 007 you May have to reconsider in the amp departement.
> 
> 007 are very demanding in clean volts, so maybe you outha get a 450V KGST.


 

No such animal. Spritzer build the first couple of KGST with +/-400V supplies and found it ran too hot. He and Kevin Gilmore's settled on design is for +/-350V (unless you with go off board heat sinks).


----------



## NoPants

I think there is actually one 450V version out there but that guy knows what he's doing


----------



## Jones Bob

nopants said:


> I think there is actually one 450V version out there but that guy knows what he's doing




That's good to know. 

I don't need it with my SR-009. Volume knob rarely goes to 10:00.


----------



## Rossliew

Agree with Astrostar. Them 007s are really something


----------



## HemiSam

So is the general concensus that the 007 Mk1 and Mk2 need more than 350v to drive properly?  I don't see much point going in that direction if my amp isn't going to support the cans.  Hell...I started simply wanting to beef up the Koss to see what they could do...LOL.
  
 HS


----------



## purk

hemisam said:


> So is the general concensus that the 007 Mk1 and Mk2 need more than 350v to drive properly?  I don't see much point going in that direction if my amp isn't going to support the cans.  Hell...I started simply wanting to beef up the Koss to see what they could do...LOL.
> 
> HS


 
 I think the KGST running at 400v has plenty of power to drive the 007 MK1.  Better yet get the KGSSHV 500v IXY parts.  IMO, the 450V KGSSHV sanyo is a tad too warm and lush for the 007 MK1.  Spritzer's KGSSHV mini is also a good choice for the SR007 MK1.


----------



## HemiSam

purk said:


> I think the KGST running at 400v has plenty of power to drive the 007 MK1.  Better yet get the KGSSHV 500v IXY parts.  IMO, the 450V KGSSHV sanyo is a tad too warm and lush for the 007 MK1.  Spritzer's KGSSHV mini is also a good choice for the SR007 MK1.


 
  
 Thank you, purk.  I have a 350v KGST being built for me.  That's what I have to play with for now.  I committed to it and it is coming my way.
  
 HS


----------



## rgs9200m

So is Mjolnir the primary source for commissioning a KGSS or KGST build?


----------



## MacedonianHero

georgep said:


> Listening to them can be a challenge. Spent over an hour with another headfier with three different 007 mk1 and my diy-t2, trying discern any differences - 70xxx 71xx and sz1. In the end we could not discern any differences between the 71xx and the sz1, but the 70xx showed a very slight difference (ever so slightly superior to my ears), but then only on a couple of tracks. All three were great, but there is a possibility that variability in the pads (age, wear, etc) was responsible for any differences that were heard. So in all likelihood, unless you have golden ears, you will have a hard time hearing any differences without having other pairs to compare them with for an extended period of time. The mk2 (sz2) on the other hand are immediately different, and not as accurate in the low to mid bass, but nonetheless still a great headphone.


 
  
 Great comments George! I was always curious (I'm assuming this was you and zare?) of the differences.
  
 Happy New Year!


----------



## MacedonianHero

purk said:


> I think the KGST running at 400v has plenty of power to drive the 007 MK1.  Better yet get the KGSSHV 500v IXY parts.  IMO, the 450V KGSSHV sanyo is a tad too warm and lush for the 007 MK1.  Spritzer's KGSSHV mini is also a good choice for the SR007 MK1.


 
  
 I don't know about that...I seem to prefer the 450V Sanyo version...I did have the 500V IXYS version, but it sounded a tad on the "cold" side to me. But the differences were very close. Plus, the 450V sanyo version is quite a bit better with the SR-009s (my primary headphones).
  
 That said, my 450V sanyo KGSSHV amp has the current cranked up beyond the typical IXYS version, not sure how much that affects what I'm hearing?


----------



## mulveling

For like 5 different builds now, I've heard absolutely no discernible correlation between high/low current and sound quality on a KGSShv. However there may be a correlation between each of the 400V/450V/500V versions and the resulting sound. I think the 450V Sanyo is da bomb when paired with a 009, but I also think the 500V IXYS does a great job with both 009 and 007 Mk I. I agree that the 500V is "colder" in comparison to the 450V.
  
 Like I said before, a warm 450V with 007 Mk I is just too much for me some days. Other days, it's fine and quite enjoyable. A neutral source is a must in that pairing; a slightly bright source might even help a bit.
  
 And yeah, any good KGSShv build is going to be a great amp. We're just picking nits here.


----------



## MacedonianHero

mulveling said:


> For like 5 different builds now, I've heard absolutely no discernible correlation between high/low current and sound quality on a KGSShv.


 
  
 The differences were quite small and the "most" apparent using the SR-007s...but still slight. I would say the 450V is a bit sweeter sounding...but again, not by much to my ears. YMMV.


----------



## NoPants

I'm running my kgsshv onboard at 350V and voltage/volume isn't an issue


----------



## HemiSam

WINNING!
  
  





  
 HS


----------



## Rossliew

jones bob said:


> No such animal. Spritzer build the first couple of KGST with +/-400V supplies and found it ran too hot. He and Kevin Gilmore's settled on design is for +/-350V (unless you with go off board heat sinks).


 

 Mine runs hot but it has extra holes on the top chassis. No issues with it whatever


----------



## purk

macedonianhero said:


> The differences were quite small and the "most" apparent using the SR-007s...but still slight. I would say the 450V is a bit sweeter sounding...but again, not by much to my ears. YMMV.


 
 For your reference, Mike and I spent quite a bit of time going back and forth between various different builds of the KGSSHVs and they are all excellent.  IMO, the full-sized 450V Sanyo is match made in heaven to the SR009 due to warmer and relaxing sound.  I personally think the full-sized 500V IXY is more neutral and leaner sounding compared to the full-sized 450V Sanyo.  These traits make it work better with the SR007 due to more neutral approach to sound that also to work well with the SR009 too.


----------



## astrostar59

purk said:


> For your reference, Mike and I spent quite a bit of time going back and forth between various different builds of the KGSSHVs and they are all excellent.  IMO, the full-sized 450V Sanyo is match made in heaven to the SR009 due to warmer and relaxing sound.  I personally think the full-sized 500V IXY is more neutral and leaner sounding compared to the full-sized 450V Sanyo.  These traits make it work better with the SR007 due to more neutral approach to sound that also to work well with the SR009 too.


 
 I concur with that. My KGSShv 450v full size off-board is a great match with my 009s. I wonder how fat that amp could go? I think I read Kevin G was looking at a Carbon version?


----------



## Gneiss

Does anyone know what sort of price one might pay for an SR-009 if actually in Japan? Could one expect to get a better deal than on PriceJapan.com?


----------



## zolkis

Would be hard but not impossible, if you live there for a while. As a tourist, I doubt. You'd be lucky to find some discounted 009 on stock somewhere.


----------



## MacedonianHero

purk said:


> For your reference, Mike and I spent quite a bit of time going back and forth between various different builds of the KGSSHVs and they are all excellent.  *IMO, the full-sized 450V Sanyo is match made in heaven to the SR009 due to warmer and relaxing sound.*  I personally think the full-sized 500V IXY is more neutral and leaner sounding compared to the full-sized 450V Sanyo.  These traits make it work better with the SR007 due to more neutral approach to sound that also to work well with the SR009 too.


 
 Which is why I prefer it...my SR-009s are my main "go to" headphones. Plus it depends on the current level as the Sanyo can be cranked up a bit more (mine is set to 10mA) and I find it's got an iron fist control of both the SR-009 and SR-007 drivers. That said, both sound VERY close to my ears and the differences are far from significant IMO. Funny, I found the IXYS a bit on the colder side of things (and just a wee bit) while the sanyo was a wee bit on the other side. Maybe a 475V in between and split the difference?


----------



## mulveling

I haven't really noticed a crank-ability difference between a 10mA 450V and 5.5mA 500V. Both can do way more than plenty, even with a 007, and I *do* like it quite loud. The sonic difference between these builds is not night-and-day, but it's also more than subtle when you become very familiar with the gear -- as we have. Yeah, the warmth from the 450V Sanyo is _really_ nice with a 009. It's the right kind of warmth to get from good SS, without spilling into overbearing and thus losing detail (e.g. 1997 Headroom Max, e.g. Aragon 47K phono stage -- both way too warm/dark and dropping loads of detail in the process).


----------



## gepardcv

gneiss said:


> Does anyone know what sort of price one might pay for an SR-009 if actually in Japan? Could one expect to get a better deal than on PriceJapan.com?


 

 Yobodashi Camera (to pick one large store) sells the SR-009 for a somewhat higher price than PriceJapan. You might be able to do better if you check a few other stores in Akihabara, but if the really cheap dealers are outside of Tokyo, finding them will be more difficult. The advantage of buying directly is that you can substantially reduce the risk of the channel imbalance problem. Since it's most likely caused by temperature and humidity swings during air shipping, you (1) check the headphone at the store for an hour or so, either before buying or while still in Japan where the warranty applies, and (2) keep it in your carry-on luggage, in a climate-controlled cabin.
  
 You'll have to pay import tariffs at customs, obviously, but the whole deal is still way cheaper than the official retail markup. Plus, you get a trip to Japan, which is an amazing and lovely place.


----------



## Gneiss

Thank you for the advice.


----------



## MacedonianHero

mulveling said:


> I haven't really noticed a crank-ability difference between a 10mA 450V and 5.5mA 500V. Both can do way more than plenty, even with a 007, and I *do* like it quite loud. The sonic difference between these builds is not night-and-day, but it's also more than subtle when you become very familiar with the gear -- as we have. Yeah, the warmth from the 450V Sanyo is _really_ nice with a 009. It's the right kind of warmth to get from good SS, without spilling into overbearing and thus losing detail (e.g. 1997 Headroom Max, e.g. Aragon 47K phono stage -- both way too warm/dark and dropping loads of detail in the process).


 
 The "crank" term I used was that the current was cranked up to 10mA on the 450V version vs. the 5.5 mA on the 500V.


----------



## esimms86

I recently had the unbelievable good fortune to purchase a KGBH (a Justin build but not the BHSE) which had been sold to spritzer as a nonfunctioning unit which spritzer subsequently brought roaring back to life. I have to say, it's a match made in heaven when paired with my recently acquired SR009's which don't seem to have the overly bright sound signature that so many people speak of. Perhaps the newer SR009's _do_ have less coloration; I wouldn't know since these are the only SR009's that I have ever listened to. I also have a KGSSHV (spritzer build) which is wonderful with my 009's as well as with my 007Mk1's(serial number 72xxx - not among the most coveted of the mk series but still no slouch) but, once I plug the 009's into the KGBH it's game over for me. It's cured me of craving the BHSE which I've never had the chance to listen to but at this point have diminished desire to meet in person. I know that not a lot of KGBH's were ever made but I'm still surprised that I don't have opportunity to read more about them here or elsewhere. I'm actually curious to read about the experiences of others who heard them both and, particularly, the experiences of head-fiers who may have sold their KGBH to purchase a BHSE.
  
 Esau


----------



## Earspeakers

gepardcv said:


> Yobodashi Camera (to pick one large store) sells the SR-009 for a somewhat higher price than PriceJapan. You might be able to do better if you check a few other stores in Akihabara, but if the really cheap dealers are outside of Tokyo, finding them will be more difficult. The advantage of buying directly is that you can substantially reduce the risk of the channel imbalance problem. Since it's most likely caused by temperature and humidity swings during air shipping, you (1) check the headphone at the store for an hour or so, either before buying or while still in Japan where the warranty applies, and (2) keep it in your carry-on luggage, in a climate-controlled cabin.
> 
> You'll have to pay import tariffs at customs, obviously, but the whole deal is still way cheaper than the official retail markup. Plus, you get a trip to Japan, which is an amazing and lovely place.


 

 Been to Japan too many times for work, no thanks  I have a friend in Japan who could get it and send to me, but really would rather buy online. 
  
 So where is a good place to purchase online? Is PriceJapan.com a reputable vendor? 
  
 WooAudio wants $4300, where PriceJapan lists it at 2,879 (probably reflecting a more current exchange rate)


----------



## georgep

Yes, PriceJapan is reputable, and realy the only option outside of authorized dealers. Some dealers can do a bit better than list from what I have heard but pretty sure none can get close to PJ pricing.


----------



## subtle

With the dollar so strong at the moment that $2879 price from PriceJapan is quite tempting.


----------



## okw3188

georgep said:


> Yes, PriceJapan is reputable, and realy the only option outside of authorized dealers. Some dealers can do a bit better than list from what I have heard but pretty sure none can get close to PJ pricing.


 
 I have a very bad experience with PriceJapan. Bought a pair of SC-21, the headphone was still defective, after the 1st repair. Since then, they choose not to answer my email at all. So, please be careful when warranty is needed. For me, my painful experience costs me US$1500 and there's no way, I am going to buy anything from them.


----------



## Earspeakers

okw3188 said:


> I have a very bad experience with PriceJapan. Bought a pair of SC-21, the headphone was still defective, after the 1st repair. Since then, they choose not to answer my email at all. So, please be careful when warranty is needed. For me, my painful experience costs me US$1500 and there's no way, I am going to buy anything from them.


 

 Sorry to hear that! But I'm confused, what do you mean by "the headphone was still defective, after the 1st repair"? Was it defective when you bought it, or what happened exactly?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I've bought several Stax items from PJ, and I've even had to send one of them back to Japan for warranty. They've made a mistake when shipping it back (they swapped it to another customer), but everything went fine eventually.

 Ali


----------



## Michgelsen

earspeakers said:


> Sorry to hear that! But I'm confused, what do you mean by "the headphone was still defective, after the 1st repair"? Was it defective when you bought it, or what happened exactly?


 
  
 That story begins here.


----------



## okw3188

earspeakers said:


> Sorry to hear that! But I'm confused, what do you mean by "the headphone was still defective, after the 1st repair"? Was it defective when you bought it, or what happened exactly?


 
 I bought the SC-21 from them and it took 3 months for delivery, due to limited stock. The left side was defective just about after a day of listening. So, I sent them back for repair. It took them 4 months to sort it out and claim that the supplier Airbow has changed the entire left side of the headphone. But after listening for another day, the problem still exists. 
  
 I was so upset about the issue and demand an explanation, so they said they have done their best as a "middle man" and then no further email reply.


----------



## cs098

Massdrop has the STAX SRS-3170 for $1100 which goes down to 1000 with 4 purchases.
  
 Is that worth it?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Japanese set, voltage transformer needed. The same is around 900$ shipped (without customs) from pricejapan, so no big deal.
 Things would be different whether it'd have been an official american set.

 Ali


----------



## Earspeakers

cs098 said:


> Massdrop has the STAX SRS-3170 for $1100 which goes down to 1000 with 4 purchases.
> 
> Is that worth it?


 

 I was in the last time that dropped, just a few months ago actually. First time I heard a Stax and knew I found what I wanted all these years. 
  
 At any rate it can be had cheaper elsewhere, but there's some level of support through MD at least. If it comes with any issues they'll set it straight (had it happen with a tube headphone amp I got through them). It also came with a transformer (wall wart kind of thing) for North American use. But you have to wait for the drop to end and for it to ship (and they use slow shipping) so it takes a long time to get to you, plus if in California you pay tax.


----------



## Sleepow

Hi,

So I posted before about my search for an amp suitable for the 009 that I could get in Japan. I kind of decided to go with the middle ground between the best (BHSE) and the just ok (Stax amp) and go for a KGSSHV. 
However yesterday I got a reply from Birgir, and the voltage in Japan (100V) make it not prefect as the power supply would not be regulated anymore.

So I contacted Stax to ask them if the could do the tube upgrade on the 007ta or the feedback upgrade on the 727a, and I am still waiting for a reply. However this being Japan, I doubt they will do it (good service, but near impossible to bend the rule).

So I am now looking for specialized shops that could help me with the modifications or upgrade.

Since it might be tough to find someone experienced with such specific request, I will need really detailed instructions (preferably in Japanese, since I do not speak the language, but for that I have little hope).

Could anyone direct me to the best online resource to find detailed information on what is needed for those two upgrades? 

Thanks in advance,
Cheers,

Cedric


----------



## astrostar59

I would recommend buying from the real importer in your country. If you do have issues, it can be a problem. It removes the worry.
 It is what I did with my 009s, which broke the bank. Never looked back though, I love them..


----------



## rgs9200m

I used this thread (below) about the 006t, did the 007t rebiasing, and posted some photos in this thread from my efforts. Some say you can just change out the tubes w/o biasing, so that may be worth a try.
 I'm sure you could find some electronics shop to do the biasing task once you have the tubes later.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/415385/tube-change-biasing-a-stax-006t-ii


----------



## rgs9200m

Here are the instructions for the 006t amp (with 2 tubes), easy enough to apply to the 007t (with 4 tubes).
_Turn off and unplug the SRM-006t II
 Open up the SRM-006t II
 Remove the two 6FQ7 (6CG7) tubes
 Replace the tubes with the new tubes
 Plug-in and turn on the SRM-006t II letting it warm up for 30 minutes
 Adjust DC balance to zero
 Adjust DC offset to zero.
 ***Since changes in DC balance will change DC offset and vice versa the adjustments will probably be repeated and checked several times.***
 Turn off and unplug the SRM-006t II
 Close the SRM-006t II
 Connect to source and listen to music.........

 If I face the front of the amplifier the pins of the connector should be as follows – AGAIN this is looking at the front of the amplifier towards the back and looking INTO the “female” connector

 ____3____

 4_______2

 __5____1__

 (underlines being used to keep spacing)

 To measure the DC balance I put my voltmeter probe into 2 (right +) and 5 (right -) and adjust potentiometer TVR1 for the right channel to read zero. I then move the probes to 3 (left +) and 4 (left -) and adjust potentiometer TVR1 for the left channel to read zero.


 To measure DC offset I connect one probe to 2 (right +) and the ground post at the back of the amp and adjust TVR2 for the right channel to read zero. I then move the probe to 3 (left +) and leave the other probe on the ground post and adjust TVR2 for the left channel to read zero._
  
 Left and right channels are identified on the circuit board (written).


----------



## Tachikoma

okw3188 said:


> I bought the SC-21 from them and it took 3 months for delivery, due to limited stock. The left side was defective just about after a day of listening. So, I sent them back for repair. It took them 4 months to sort it out and claim that the supplier Airbow has changed the entire left side of the headphone. But after listening for another day, the problem still exists.
> 
> I was so upset about the issue and demand an explanation, so they said they have done their best as a "middle man" and then no further email reply.


 

 FWIW, if there is an underlying problem which caused damaged to the diaphragm (misaligned stators?), replacing the diaphragm wouldn't solve the problem.
  
 For some reason, I don't think I've ever heard of any complaints about the reliability of Stax headphones, until the SR-507 and SR-009 were released, with the exception of the original SR-Omega.


----------



## okw3188

tachikoma said:


> FWIW, if there is an underlying problem which caused damaged to the diaphragm (misaligned stators?), replacing the diaphragm wouldn't solve the problem.
> 
> For some reason, I don't think I've ever heard of any complaints about the reliability of Stax headphones, until the SR-507 and SR-009 were released, with the exception of the original SR-Omega.


 
 Well, I am indeed the unlucky one..


----------



## okw3188

By the way, I am using a SR-507 for the past 2 months, no problem at all. This set was purchased locally in Australia, as I don't want to deal with PriceJapan anymore.


----------



## gepardcv

> However yesterday I got a reply from Birgir, and the voltage in Japan (100V) make it not prefect as the power supply would not be regulated anymore.


 
 Is this in reference to running a 117V unit at 100V? That sounds problematic, but I would have expected an amp with a custom 100V transformer to work.


----------



## barid

Awful lot of 007 MK1's for sale these days.  People finally moving en mass to 009 setups perhaps?


----------



## complin

barid said:


> Awful lot of 007 MK1's for sale these days.  People finally moving en mass to 009 setups perhaps?


 
  
 Probably a good time to buy if the price is not over inflated as IMO they are still one of the greatest headphones ever made


----------



## Ali-Pacha

barid said:


> Awful lot of 007 MK1's for sale these days.  People finally moving en mass to 009 setups perhaps?


 
 SR-009 is clearly better out of any Stax amp, so it's the easier way. Things seem to be more debatable when you have some KGSS(HV) or BHSE...depends on one's taste.
  
 Ali


----------



## Sleepow

gepardcv said:


> Is this in reference to running a 117V unit at 100V? That sounds problematic, but I would have expected an amp with a custom 100V transformer to work.




Yes, he was referring to running a 117V unit on 100V.


----------



## Sleepow

Hi,

So while I continue to try to sort out the amp, (most likely will start with a 323, before adding as soon as possible a 727ta with upgraded tubes or a KGsomething), it is time to look at the source for my 009 setup (which will be the newer build I guess).

At the moment I am considering 3 DACs, none that I can listen to:
Luxman DA-06
Auralic Vega
eXasound e22

Any suggestion between those, or any other recommendation?
(I will limit myself to what I can get in Japan, and DSD is a serious plus)

Cheers,
Cedric


----------



## gepardcv

Concero HD?


----------



## Jones Bob

Schiit Yggdrasil?


----------



## esimms86

sleepow said:


> Hi,
> 
> So while I continue to try to sort out the amp, (most likely will start with a 323, before adding as soon as possible a 727ta with upgraded tubes or a KGsomething), it is time to look at the source for my 009 setup (which will be the newer build I guess).
> 
> ...


 

 I have the Auralic Vega connected via it's balanced inputs(of course) to my KGBH tube amp, listening through Stax SR009 headphones. Yes, it does DSD, and it sounds fantastic.
  
 Esau


----------



## Sleepow

jones bob said:


> Schiit Yggdrasil?


 
  
 Yes, this is one serious contender, but its size and lack of DSD put it at a disadvantage for me.
 The price however is really appealing, and so is the philosophy behind the product.
 And also, it is not available yet...


----------



## icebear

sleepow said:


> Hi,
> 
> So while I continue to try to sort out the amp, (most likely will start with a 323, before adding as soon as possible a 727ta with upgraded tubes or a KGsomething), it is time to look at the source for my 009 setup (which will be the newer build I guess).
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL, see my Avatar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .... it's "only" the e20 but I'm very happy with it.


----------



## icebear

*Lambda FUN ...*
  
 I was very close to selling my Stax set up
 Lambda Pro, SRD7MkII, ED-1 
  
 It had already been boxed up sitting in the basement and I was just dusting it off and for whatever reason I thought, OK one last time listening to a Stax before parting with it. So I hooked it up to my First Watt M2. Put the ED-1 in between pre-amp and M2 and started to listen. And I compared it to the HD800 and positively the old Stax is more fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The HD800 gives more ambient information but for sure is more analytical. I had a couple of albums that I haven't been listening to (anymore) since I have the HD800. One of my favorites is Santana "Abraxas" which I don't like on the HD800. With the LambdaPro powered by the M2, this is a joyride, cranking up the volume and let the hair out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 I won't be selling the Lambda or I will for sure regret it.


----------



## Sleepow

icebear said:


> LOL, see my Avatar  .... it's "only" the e20 but I'm very happy with it.




The e22 is at the top of my list for now.
What equipment are you using the e20 with and hire would you describe the sound?
If you tried, how is the headphone out with the HD800?


----------



## icebear

Until recently I had a Krell CD-DSP which I used as transport. Now I have a Marantz SA11s3 and don't really need the e20 anymore. I can reliably tell a difference although the don't sound identical with 16/44 as source. I have a Sonata NP20 for webradio streaming and it was close to being unlistenable before I got the e20. Hooked up to the external DAC it now can play music
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 The e20 is highly detailed, has great bass definition (much better than the Krell analog out), gives fantastic ambient information but most importantly : you will quickly forget about it and just listen to the music. I haven't experimented a lot with high-rez files to discern any differences between the e20 and the SA11s3 as I am too busy to listen to my CD's and SACD's (the latter often being significantly cheaper than DSD downloads).
  
 The headphone output of the e20 seems to power the HD800 absolutely fine. I can't follow any of the complaints that the HD800 was aggressive in the treble region and has weak bass, not in my set up. My e20 has the 82fs clock upgrade and I got a Teddy Pardo psu. The e22 has a full size USB port and higher max voltage for the headphone output vs the e20 but it about $500 more if I'm not mistaken. It comes with 30 days money back guaranty, so you can try if you like it with no risk and sent it back in case you are not happy. I would be curious how many times that actually happened ... I guess they can count that on one hand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Ra97oR

I guess it is about time for me to quit the STAX mafia, don't send anyone after me!

With my new dynamic amp, the STAX have been getting less and less head time, now the W3000ANV arrived and sounding better than expected even... Been a fun ride still.


----------



## mulveling

Impossible! You must be doin it wrong. Stop doin it wrong.


----------



## Ra97oR

Sadly I have fallen to the intense brain washing from my Audio Technicas. Blame them!


----------



## headinclouds

ra97or said:


> I guess it is about time for me to quit the STAX mafia, don't send anyone after me!
> 
> With my new dynamic amp, the STAX have been getting less and less head time, now the W3000ANV arrived and sounding better than expected even... Been a fun ride still.


 

 Y' bu**er - it was your system that got me into this


----------



## Failed Engineer

You can be both!  There would have to be something really unusual happen for me to sell my W3000ANVs.  But the Stax gets most of my headtime.


----------



## purk

complin said:


> Probably a good time to buy if the price is not over inflated as IMO they are still one of the greatest headphones ever made


 
 Totally, especially with the BHSE.  Anyone with the BHSE should own the SR007 MKI.


----------



## n3rdling

ra97or said:


> I guess it is about time for me to quit the STAX mafia, don't send anyone after me!
> 
> With my new dynamic amp, the STAX have been getting less and less head time, now the W3000ANV arrived and sounding better than expected even... Been a fun ride still.


 
  
 You just need to get one of the Omegas and you'll be back


----------



## kothganesh

headinclouds said:


> Y' bu**er - it was your system that got me into this


 

 Eh Geoff, you're missing a couple of "g"s maybe?


----------



## astrostar59

ra97or said:


> I guess it is about time for me to quit the STAX mafia, don't send anyone after me!
> 
> With my new dynamic amp, the STAX have been getting less and less head time, now the W3000ANV arrived and sounding better than expected even... Been a fun ride still.


 
 Don't do it, you may (probably will) regret it.... Move up to the 007s or 009s and leave the orthos for dead.


----------



## Rossliew

I must agree with astrostar, them 007s wipe the dust off any surface with orthos, in my case, the LCD2.


----------



## complin

astrostar59 said:


> Don't do it, you may (probably will) regret it.... Move up to the 007s or 009s and leave the orthos for dead.


 
  
  


rossliew said:


> I must agree with astrostar, them 007s wipe the dust off any surface with orthos, in my case, the LCD2.


 
  
 Have to agree once you have tasted Stats IME there is no going back. You might have a dalliance with something else for a while but inevitably as Arnie would I'll be back
  
 I fell in love with the Audeze for a while but found them in comparison to lack substantially in the top few octaves, detail and finesse. In fact much of what was recorded was simply not audible when compared with even with the entry level Lambda.


----------



## cucera

complin said:


> Have to agree once you have tasted Stats IME there is no going back. You might have a dalliance with something else for a while but inevitably as Arnie would I'll be back
> 
> I fell in love with the Audeze for a while but found them in comparison to lack substantially in the top few octaves, detail and finesse. In fact much of what was recorded was simply not audible when compared with even with the entry level Lambda.




I habe made a similar experience. For a while I thought the HE-6 on a Accuphase amp could compete, but espeacially with the Smyth Realiser I found nothing is as capable to show the smallest details as an Stax.


----------



## Jones Bob

About the Stax mafia......you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave. 

We won't let you.

Remember the old British TV show from the 60's, The Prisoner?


----------



## complin

jones bob said:


> About the Stax mafia......you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.
> 
> We won't let you.
> 
> Remember the old British TV show from the 60's, The Prisoner?


----------



## Lan647

complin said:


> Have to agree once you have tasted Stats IME there is no going back. You might have a dalliance with something else for a while but inevitably as Arnie would I'll be back
> 
> *I fell in love with the Audeze for a while but found them in comparison to lack substantially in the top few octaves, detail and finesse. In fact much of what was recorded was simply not audible when compared with even with the entry level Lambda.   *


 

 I've had a similar experience. As nice and inviting as orthos can be, they are no match for a STAX (that includes even the lower-end lambdas) when it comes to refinement and delicacy in the treble. If you go up to the 007 or 009, they will give the orthos a pretty good fight when it comes to bass response as well. While the good orthos can still sound heavier and more impactful, you get superior bass texture with the 007 and 009.

 So what I'm really trying to say here is that unless you crave that really forceful, physical bass there is still no comparison IMHO between dynamics and electrostatics. The 007 simply wipes the floor with something like an LCD-3.


----------



## HPiper

complin said:


> Have to agree once you have tasted Stats IME there is no going back. You might have a dalliance with something else for a while but inevitably as Arnie would I'll be back
> 
> I fell in love with the Audeze for a while but found them in comparison to lack substantially in the top few octaves, detail and finesse. In fact much of what was recorded was simply not audible when compared with even with the entry level Lambda.


 

 Would you say that is true even for the lower tier Stax phones for example the 507/407 phones?


----------



## Moonhead

To me 007 is the most natural lifelike headphone there is surpasing 009 and Many others. 
It has about the details on same level of HD800 if not a smitch more, there are just not throw in your face and soundstage are perfect to. 

007 sounds like a live concert not any other headphone could provide that for me and if i ever find one i Would Buy it in a heartbeat.


----------



## Hun7er

I agree with you, it doesn't throw the details into your faces, it subtly present the details. But I can't say it is better than the planars magnetic because it didn't posses that visceral presentation. In fact I like them both, it depends my mood and the type of music. The reason why I like the Sigma it's because it has less ethereal sounds, more weighty and finally had mid-bass hump.
  
 The Audeze LCD-X which I test with an EC BA lacks on finess and the treble was gritty. HE6 or HE500 had cavernous sound but it seems they open up with severals mod.


----------



## kothganesh

Hun7er:
  
 Which of your 3 Sigmas do you find the most visceral?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Hun7er

kothganesh said:


> Hun7er:
> 
> Which of your 3 Sigmas do you find the most visceral?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 All of them


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Sigma are easier to drive, too. Out of an average Stax amp like my SRM-1/mk2, my Sigma Pro have more dynamics than my SR-007, even if they have less details and show a far from neutral FR (loudness everywhere).
  
 Ali


----------



## Hun7er

I think these review sum up in a good manner what I think about the Sigma http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13#user_SRS.


----------



## complin

hpiper said:


> Would you say that is true even for the lower tier Stax phones for example the 507/407 phones?


 
  
 I was thinking of the 207 or the older 202's 
 The 507/407 are top of the Stax Lambda range
  
 The LCD orthos have a very narrow soundstage unlike the Stax and it you do an A/B comparison with some music which has a fair amount of higher frequencies and ques, say snare drum, hi-hat and cymbals you find almost all of this information missing on the Orthos. On the Stats its all laid bare, the rasp of the snare, the shimmering decay of the cymbals and is coherent with everything else thats going on.


----------



## Moonhead

I just don't understand why Mahler gives 007 such a hard time and rate them behind LCD3.
It's obvious he takes price into consideration, but it would cost almost the same to get dissent power to either 007 and LCD3.


----------



## complin

ali-pacha said:


> Sigma are easier to drive, too. Out of an average Stax amp like my SRM-1/mk2, my Sigma Pro have more dynamics than my SR-007, even if they have less details and show a far from neutral FR (loudness everywhere).
> 
> Ali


 
  
 Actually I have not found the Sigma Pros thats easy to drive, they have always seemed much less efficient than a Lambda. They do seem to need a bit of oomph to bring them to life.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

complin said:


> Actually I have not found the Sigma Pros thats easy to drive, they have always seemed much less efficient than a Lambda. They do seem to need a bit of oomph to bring them to life.


 
 Easier than SR-007 <> Easy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I can drive my SR-007 at ear-bleeding level out the SRM-1/mk2, but they still lack dynamics / excitement.
 I think Sigma's need of power comes from volume / damping effect of the enclosure, you "just" have to turn up the volume (compared to my other Staxens), they still have rather efficient Lambda drivers.
 SR-007 low efficiency looks like something intrinsic of drivers, maybe a special need of current / high slew rates.

 Ali


----------



## astrostar59

complin said:


> I was thinking of the 207 or the older 202's
> The 507/407 are top of the Stax Lambda range
> 
> The LCD orthos have a very narrow soundstage unlike the Stax and it you do an A/B comparison with some music which has a fair amount of higher frequencies and ques, say snare drum, hi-hat and cymbals you find almost all of this information missing on the Orthos. On the Stats its all laid bare, the rasp of the snare, the shimmering decay of the cymbals and is coherent with everything else thats going on.


 
 IMO the Stax 407/507s have the magic that my old LNS had. The issue with them is they lack realistic bass and dynamics low down to provide the foundation for the music. This further exasperates the treble emphasis they appear to have. The LCD2 and 3, and HifiMan HE-6 models IMO offered real bass and close to mid range Stax transparency. But go to the 007 or 009 and show is over.
  
 Finally we have the rest of the spectrum to back up the (expected) transparency and fast / sensitive transients of a Stax headphone. The 007 IMO may suit mid range digital front ends as it is more forgiving. When I had my 007s I wondered if that was designed in. Anyway, the 009 takes that off and gives you all the information in the incoming signal. Anyone who finds they don't like the 009 I suspect may have issues elsewhere. I don't believe it emphasises anything, just gives you it all, pure music. It is fairly easy to tweak downstream gear for that perfect sound we all need / require (and expect ) at this level.


----------



## complin

ali-pacha said:


> Easier than SR-007 <> Easy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would say the Sigmas are between the 007 and Lambdas regarding efficiency. The 007 Mk1 needs a really serious amp to make it sing properly and only the SRM-T2 can do this IME. Alternatives are the BH/BHSE and DIY T2. Possibly the KGSSHV/KGSST not having tried either with the 007 Mk1 I can't comment.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

astrostar59 said:


> Finally we have the rest of the spectrum to back up the (expected) transparency and fast / sensitive transients of a Stax headphone. The 007 IMO may suit mid range digital front ends as it is more forgiving. When I had my 007s I wondered if that was designed in. Anyway, the 009 takes that off and gives you all the information in the incoming signal. Anyone who finds they don't like the 009 I suspect may have issues elsewhere. I don't believe it emphasises anything, just gives you it all, pure music. It is fairly easy to tweak downstream gear for that perfect sound we all need / require (and expect ) at this level.


 
 SR-009 presentation may be seen as bright, unnatural, too much "in your face", high-mids etched, lacking a kind of bond beetween bass and mids, etc...but there's an immediate wow ! factor with them, you can easily experience it with almost any non-audiophile folk. And it won't be so obvious with SR-007 or lower e-stats.
 BTW, I do prefer SR-009 and don't agree with weaknesses list above. But I haven't extendely heard SR-007 with T2 / KG-something amps.
  


complin said:


> I would say the Sigmas are between the 007 and Lambdas regarding efficiency. The 007 Mk1 needs a really serious amp to make it sing properly and only the SRM-T2 can do this IME. Alternatives are the BH/BHSE and DIY T2. Possibly the KGSSHV/KGSST not having tried either with the 007 Mk1 I can't comment.


 
 I'm in line for batch #4... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## Hun7er

astrostar59 said:


> IMO the Stax 407/507s have the magic that my old LNS had. The issue with them is they lack realistic bass and dynamics low down to provide the foundation for the music. This further exasperates the treble emphasis they appear to have. The LCD2 and 3, and HifiMan HE-6 models IMO offered real bass and close to mid range Stax transparency. But go to the 007 or 009 and show is over.
> 
> Finally we have the rest of the spectrum to back up the (expected) transparency and fast / sensitive transients of a Stax headphone. The 007 IMO may suit mid range digital front ends as it is more forgiving. When I had my 007s I wondered if that was designed in. Anyway, the 009 takes that off and gives you all the information in the incoming signal. Anyone who finds they don't like the 009 I suspect may have issues elsewhere. I don't believe it emphasises anything, just gives you it all, pure music. It is fairly easy to tweak downstream gear for that perfect sound we all need / require (and expect ) at this level.


 
  
 I think the problem is that you didn't understand people are not always obsessed about performance and didn't care about hear a fly fart.
 It's a matter of preferences, I like Sigma even they're not neutral and subdued certains some details. I want to hear in the way I like the music even with coloration and romantiscim added. We are not talking about 0-60 mph that you can measure exactly. Our passion for music and headphone is more subjective.
  
 Subjectively I didn't hear much differences between on SR007MKI and SR009. My preferences comes to the SR007 because it has bit more weighty sounds and bit more relaxed.
 Subjectively I didn't hear much differences between SRM007T retubed, KGSSHV 500v, KGST, Headamp KGSS and SR727. 
 Yes maybe I need to change or clean my ears or update my brain but as I said it's subjectively and it saves my wallet.


----------



## Rico613

complin said:


> jones bob said:
> 
> 
> > About the Stax mafia......you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.
> ...





 Number Two has spoken !!


----------



## Ali-Pacha

hun7er said:


> I think the problem is that you didn't understand people are not always obsessed about performance and didn't care about hear a fly fart.


 

  
 Quote:


hun7er said:


> It's a matter of preferences, I like Sigma even they're not neutral and subdued certains some details. I want to hear in the way I like the music even with coloration and romantiscim added. We are not talking about 0-60 mph that you can measure exactly. Our passion for music and headphone is more subjective.


 
 This 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## astrostar59

hun7er said:


> I think the problem is that you didn't understand people are not always obsessed about performance and didn't care about hear a fly fart.
> It's a matter of preferences, I like Sigma even they're not neutral and subdued certains some details. I want to hear in the way I like the music even with coloration and romantiscim added. We are not talking about 0-60 mph that you can measure exactly. Our passion for music and headphone is more subjective.
> 
> Subjectively I didn't hear much differences between on SR007MKI and SR009. My preferences comes to the SR007 because it has bit more weighty sounds and bit more relaxed.
> ...


 
 Dude, if you can't hear the difference maybe you shouldn't be on this forum?


----------



## Hun7er

astrostar59 said:


> Dude, if you can't hear the difference maybe you shouldn't be on this forum?


 
 I can't, I like to read you


----------



## Ali-Pacha

astrostar59 said:


> Dude, if you can't hear the difference maybe you shouldn't be on this forum?


 
 I do respect your thoughts, but hey ! How do you manage to regularly go to the confrontational side of things ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ali


----------



## Moonhead

Chillax Astro dude, its only


----------



## complin

astrostar59 said:


> Dude, if you can't hear the difference maybe you shouldn't be on this forum?


 
  
 Well thats a sweeping statement if ever I heard one !! I must say rather an arrogant comment too, as each individual has their own experience, priorities and preferences.
 Each individual has different hearing capabilities and you are forgetting the most important thing of all, the grey matter between your ears. which has a huge influence on how you compared to someone else perceives sound


----------



## cucera

Many of us here especially in the Stax thread tend to exaggerate the differences between the amps. Yes the BHSE is better, but I could easily live with a KGSS or 717 with the SR-007 (the 009 sounds good even out of lesser amps). As allways you pay a lot for those last few % of sound quality (for BHSE and more so for T2). But for some thats exactly what this hobby is about.


----------



## John Buchanan

complin said:


> I would say the Sigmas are between the 007 and Lambdas regarding efficiency. The 007 Mk1 needs a really serious amp to make it sing properly and only the SRM-T2 can do this IME. Alternatives are the BH/BHSE and DIY T2. Possibly the KGSSHV/KGSST not having tried either with the 007 Mk1 I can't comment.


 

 Having owned the SR-007 Mk1, the Sigma Pro and the Sigma/404 as well as the Lambda Nova Signature, the efficiency of the sets goes like this:
 LNS is more efficient than the Sigma Pro, Sigma/404 and SR-007Mk1, all of which are approximately the same efficiency.
 Distance of the driver from the ears is the most likely difference between the Lambda and Sigma (using the same drivers), but also the mineral wool absorption and reflection. The SR-007 driver is less efficient than the Lambda/Sigma type driver, as well as possibly being a bit further away from the ear.


----------



## Lan647

astrostar59 said:


> IMO the Stax 407/507s have the magic that my old LNS had. The issue with them is they lack realistic bass and dynamics low down to provide the foundation for the music. This further exasperates the treble emphasis they appear to have. The LCD2 and 3, and HifiMan HE-6 models IMO offered real bass and close to mid range Stax transparency. But go to the 007 or 009 and show is over.
> 
> Finally we have the rest of the spectrum to back up the (expected) transparency and fast / sensitive transients of a Stax headphone. The 007 IMO may suit mid range digital front ends as it is more forgiving. When I had my 007s I wondered if that was designed in. Anyway, the 009 takes that off and gives you all the information in the incoming signal. Anyone who finds they don't like the 009 I suspect may have issues elsewhere. I don't believe it emphasises anything, just gives you it all, pure music. It is fairly easy to tweak downstream gear for that perfect sound we all need / require (and expect ) at this level.




The 007 is certainly superior to me. It's pure, ultra-transparent and doesn't mask anything in the music. Neither does it emphasis anything to give the impression of greater clarity. While the added treble presence and leaner bass of the 009 may make it seem more neutral and detailed to some ears, that's not what I've found. To my ears, instruments like violins and trumpets sound beautifully organic through the 007 while it still sounds like a really, really good recording through the 009.


----------



## dreamwhisper

cucera said:


> Many of us here especially in the Stax thread tend to exaggerate the differences between the amps. Yes the BHSE is better, but I could easily live with a KGSS or 717 with the SR-007 (the 009 sounds good even out of lesser amps). As allways you pay a lot for those last few % of sound quality (for BHSE and more so for T2). But for some thats exactly what this hobby is about.


 
  
For me variety beats having one perfect set-up.
 I don't know about the 717 though, I personally don't feel that amp powers the 007 enough.


----------



## MacedonianHero

lan647 said:


> The 007 is certainly superior to me. It's pure, ultra-transparent and doesn't mask anything in the music. Neither does it emphasis anything to give the impression of greater clarity. While the added treble presence and leaner bass of the 009 may make it seem more neutral and detailed to some ears, that's not what I've found. To my ears, instruments like violins and trumpets sound beautifully organic through the 007 while it still sounds like a really, really good recording through the 009.


 
  
 The SR-009's bass hits just as hard as the 007s with greater "punch" and definition. The innerfidelity graphs pretty much support this too. I suggest you give them both a thorough in-home listen before making such "succinct" statements. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love the 007s, but in the end the 009s are just a cut above. I can understand how some members can prefer the 007Mk1s, heck sometimes with certain genres it is really close with me too; but in the end the tactility, transparency, speed, detail retrieval and holographic nature of the 009s have them coming out on top for me.


----------



## Rossliew

I find the 007s to be dark sounding (not HD650 dark but darker than the lambdas i've heard before - 307/407) but it is still able to ruthlessly reveal details. Would definitely like to try the 009s one day. If, as MH says, the bass hits with greater punch, then that is all that is required for me


----------



## MacedonianHero

rossliew said:


> I find the 007s to be dark sounding (not HD650 dark but darker than the lambdas i've heard before - 307/407) but it is still able to ruthlessly reveal details. Would definitely like to try the 009s one day. If, as MH says, the bass hits with greater punch, then that is all that is required for me


 
  
 The amount of bass is just about the same (maybe a wee bit more on the 009s), but the speed and tactility of the bass on the 009s is truly something. Again, my 007mk1s ain't going anywhere...they are in my top 3-4 headphones of all time for very good reason.


----------



## edstrelow

I find the continuing discussion of minor sound differences between various top phones to be beside the point since I have been playing with damping the  earcups with sorbothane. For the longest time   I preferred my Sigma/404 and 007a above all else, but now  I find I am enjoying my damped LNS and 404 lambdas and SRX111 pro so much that I dont 'listen to these earlier favorites. I have has some good sounds coming out of the damped Sigma 's and 007a but I haven't yet got what I think is right. At any rate, beffore you plunk a few grand down on an upgrade, you might buy $10.00 worth of self-stick sorb on ebay or amazstick some on the earcups of whatever you have and see what you think.


----------



## fuzzzy

I have been out of the loop of these discussions for about 10 years. I was quite active on Headwize. I spend much  time discussion Staxes. I am not sure what my username was back then but I am sure it was fuzzy as well. I have a bunch of Staxes. I have been using them since the early 80s.
  
  
 Is anyone familiar with the binaural and diffuse field research Stax did in the 70s and 80s? This seems to have an impact on how they tuned the frequency response of their then future models in the following years. I saw some references to dark sounding and frequency response of the different Omega sets but did not read all 1500 pages 
  
 So, anyone into the beauty of binaural, recording, playback and Stax in particular?
  
 Is Darth still around?
  
 Is there really a "Fuzzy" (with 2 zees )  on this forum (I want my old userid back, lol).
  
  
 Best, Fuzzy.


----------



## dripf

Hi Fuzzy,
  
 Rin Choi and MLudovic on HF have done great work around the ED-1 diffuse field equalization developed by Stax and IRT in the 80s. Rin Choi on his blog has analyzed the ED-1 thoroughly and MLudovic has obtained the parameters for DF EQ so that you may reproduce it in software.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/675545/stax-ed-1-and-ed-5-eqs-emulation/30
  
 Stax's policy remains not in favour of EQ.

 Regards,
  
 dripf


----------



## Lan647

macedonianhero said:


> The SR-009's bass hits just as hard as the 007s with greater "punch" and definition. The innerfidelity graphs pretty much support this too. I suggest you give them both a thorough in-home listen before making such "succinct" statements.   I love the 007s, but in the end the 009s are just a cut above. I can understand how some members can prefer the 007Mk1s, heck sometimes with certain genres it is really close with me too; but in the end the tactility, transparency, speed, detail retrieval and holographic nature of the 009s have them coming out on top for me.




Guess we're just gonna have to agree to disagree.


----------



## Moonhead

Well I can go somewhate on board with Mac that 009 have greater punch and tiny bit better definition in the bass, everything else goes to 007 MKI, IMO. 

But it really doesn't matter what is 'best' because it will always be subjective and hats off to you if you are lucky to have your end game headphone.


----------



## David1961

I've recently ordered the SR-003mk2's from the same place I got my 009's, PriceJapan.
I got my 009's from PJ in 2011 and haven't had a problem with them, so I'm confident the 003's will be OK.

I've read the 003's aren't that comfortable after so long of wearing, but I'm going to try out some spare comply foam ear tips I have for my Shure se535's.

Kaneda of PriceJapan has informed me that they'll be shipped on the 20th, so I look forward to hearing how they sound driven by my BHSE.


----------



## astrostar59

Yes Complin, it is, but did you see the post I was replying to? That was a statement saying there is basically no difference between amps and phones. Well if we all think that, why not pack this forum in and go home.....


----------



## astrostar59

david1961 said:


> I've recently ordered the SR-003mk2's from the same place I got my 009's, PriceJapan.
> I got my 009's from PJ in 2011 and haven't had a problem with them, so I'm confident the 003's will be OK.
> 
> I've read the 003's aren't that comfortable after so long of wearing, but I'm going to try out some spare comply foam ear tips I have for my Shure se535's.
> ...


 
 Hi David. I would be interested in your review of the SR-003s myself. I heard Ian bought some Oppos recently. I guess they are for a portable setup?


----------



## walakalulu

I've reduced the slight lean tendency of the 009s bass response by changing the power cord. Quite surprised how large an effect different cables can have.


----------



## Sorrodje

hun7er said:


> Subjectively I didn't hear much differences between on SR007MKI and SR009. My preferences comes to the SR007 because it has bit more weighty sounds and bit more relaxed. Subjectively I didn't hear much differences between SRM007T retubed, KGSSHV 500v, KGST, Headamp KGSS and SR727.
> Yes maybe I need to change or clean my ears or update my brain but as I said it's subjectively and it saves my wallet.


 
  
  


astrostar59 said:


> Yes Complin, it is, but did you see the post I was replying to? That was a statement saying there is basically no difference between amps and phones. Well if we all think that, why not pack this forum in and go home.....


 
  
  
 I don't personaly see any absolute statement in what Hun7er said. I feel it's sometimes safer to admit that we can hear much difference thant to always overemphasize subtle differences and transform it in overstatements. Hyperbole is a real pleague in audio.
  
 My 2 cents.
  
  
 BTW . I'm still enjoying my SR404 despite of some FR issues ( slightly shouty mids for my tastes) . This Lambda have a very unique charm I enjoy a lot and the SR404 stays on my desk while the K812 and the KOSS ESP 950 stay boxed.  I've just sent my SRM1/MkII to Sören Schultze from Inexxon.com for a full service.  Hope to get it back soon in order to compare my KOSS ESP950 and this SR404 on the same amp. thus far , I enjoyed more the Stax combo than the Koss one. I hope the Stax Amp will help to improve my ESP950 sound


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Join the Stax side...we have cookies 

Ali


----------



## Sorrodje

ali-pacha said:


> Join the Stax side...we have cookies
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Juste notice I didn't talk about my HD800. I would'nt like to receive poisoned cookies


----------



## cucera

david1961 said:


> I've recently ordered the SR-003mk2's from the same place I got my 009's, PriceJapan.
> I got my 009's from PJ in 2011 and haven't had a problem with them, so I'm confident the 003's will be OK.
> 
> I've read the 003's aren't that comfortable after so long of wearing, but I'm going to try out some spare comply foam ear tips I have for my Shure se535's.
> ...




I own this combo (BHSE/003 MK2) too and It sounds spectacular. Sure The Soundstage is smaller than SR-007/009 but the rest is nearly as good.


----------



## Rico613

dripf said:


> Hi Fuzzy,
> 
> Rin Choi and MLudovic on HF have done great work around the ED-1 diffuse field equalization developed by Stax and IRT in the 80s. Rin Choi on his blog has analyzed the ED-1 thoroughly and MLudovic has obtained the parameters for DF EQ so that you may reproduce it in software.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I do a lot of EQ on my system and it works great with dynamic headphones.  I think stats headphones will require special techniques to get it right.  I'm working on it !


----------



## David1961

cucera said:


> I own this combo (BHSE/003 MK2) too and It sounds spectacular. Sure The Soundstage is smaller than SR-007/009 but the rest is nearly as good.




The main reason I've ordered the SR-003mk2's, is because June / July in the UK can get hot, and when that happens the 009's with their leather ear-cups get quite warm. 
So with the 003's I won't have that, or I shouldn't, and as you say the soundstage is smaller than the 007/009's, but they should give me an open sound I don't get from using my CIEM's which is what I listen to more when it's hot.


----------



## fuzzzy

There was also Günther Thiele, the German researcher and sound engineer.

I have the ED-1 in my collection. It is directly related to the Neuman KU series microphones ( also in my collection). Most importantly the ED-1 only works with Lamda Pro, the original model and all the following had a slightly differing frequency response, one way or the other. Those that have the original setup are blessed.

Has someone here done some serious listening sessions in binaural and in particular with Stax?

I shall read your link now.


----------



## fuzzzy

davidsh said:


> That was OT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It is true that Mercedes benz was using the Neuman KU81i and KU100 dummy head and Stax phones for their research of enviromental noise in their cars but i don't think that has anything to do with the development of the Lamda headset. It was a continuation of the development after the Sigma and this happened for Mercedes even entered into the picture. I have a couple of early 80s Lamdas and Mercedes car were noisy terrible vehicles to my ears.


----------



## fuzzzy

So I read that thread but I will keep it here. The important part there is the fact that the Stax EQs where only meant for a particular headset and there the attempt was made to translate that to different headsets.
  
 What I miss the the experiment of actually listening rather then play with computers. Of course the testing equipment is good for something (studying HRTFs). For example take the early Omegas and compare them to the equalized Lamda Pro with 2 channel or preferably well recorded binaural recordings. Anyone has done this?


----------



## fuzzzy

You can EQ Stax like anything else as long as you know what you are looking for.
  
  
 Edit: sorry this post should have had a quote in it regarding equalizing dynamic headphones vs Stax headphones.


----------



## fuzzzy

dripf said:


> Hi Fuzzy,
> 
> Rin Choi and MLudovic on HF have done great work around the ED-1 diffuse field equalization developed by Stax and IRT in the 80s. Rin Choi on his blog has analyzed the ED-1 thoroughly and MLudovic has obtained the parameters for DF EQ so that you may reproduce it in software.
> 
> ...


 

 Stax abandomed the expensive and potentially sound degenerating EQs in favor of making a df equalized headphone, the Omega. IMHO a equalized Lamda Pro is still better then the Omega listening to binaural recordings. Obviously there is a market for the Lamda style phones so those stayed in the line up. This is only an observation but the sound signature of the Omega is obvious in its intent.


----------



## dripf

fuzzzy said:


> Stax abandomed the expensive and potentially sound degenerating EQs in favor of making a df equalized headphone, the Omega. IMHO a equalized Lamda Pro is still better then the Omega listening to binaural recordings. Obviously there is a marked for the Lamda style phones so those stayed in the line up. This is only an observation but the sound signature of the Omega is obvious in its intent.


 
  
 Is this the case? The O2 shows further distance from DF target than lambdas.
  
 The ED-1, by the way, is still compatible with all the lambda range. The resulting response just has a slight downward slope compared to the lambda pro. I switch between using EQ and native when listening to my 307. The ED-1 notch at 10.5 kHz is too strong for my taste and I prefer -3.3 dB instead of -6.3 dB. The native sound is great to my ears except with uncontrolled electronic music and vocals which haven't been de-essed.
  
 But that's the case with any good headphone.


----------



## fuzzzy

dripf said:


> Is this the case? The O2 shows further distance from DF target than lambdas.
> 
> The ED-1, by the way, is still compatible with all the lambda range. The resulting response just has a slight downward slope compared to the lambda pro. I switch between using EQ and native when listening to my 307. The ED-1 notch at 10.5 KHz is too strong for my taste and I prefer -3.3 dB instead of -6.3 dB. The native sound is great to my ears except with uncontrolled electronic music and vocals which haven't been de-essed.
> 
> But that's the case with any good headphone.




My comment is based on extended listening session with most of these phones and also extended recording experience and being there at the recording locations. 
Electronica? How was this recorded? Seems to be hard to have a binaural electronica session, would you elaborate on that. This is very much about how was recorded as well and my comments in this case are based on binaural recording techniques which are generally diffuse field and proper frequency response would help to overcome the limitations of recording and playback technologies combined and trying to make the psychoacoustic switch between a recording and being there. In this regard extended listening has shown that the ED-1/Lamba Pro combination came closer then anything else in their ability to recreate the sound field in a believable way. Obviously there was a reason for creating a Signature version of the ED as the Lamda Signature was quite different. Not to mention the Lamdas that followed.

Are you using the previously published equalization curves rather then an actual ED-1 and modify these as per your post? That would mean they are not compatible??


----------



## fuzzzy

dripf said:


> Is this the case? The O2 shows further distance from DF target than lambdas.


 
 Is this based on graphs or based on listening?


----------



## dripf

Rin Choi 's blog investigates the pro, signature and 207 models combined with ED-1, so please take a look. The signature EQ is not a diffuse field equalization.  I've reduced the 10k notch and introduced a low Q bass boost but at this moment I am using the native because of JACK issues. ED-1 is not exclusively for binaural applications. with respect to electronic stuff, I am talking about simple stereo works.  No matter how creative the work is, there always seems to be a careless treble ski jump. 
  
 I am referring to measurements of the O2. Most thoughts broadly agree with the graphs.


----------



## lojay

Hey guys, gonna ask a newbie question.

What is the absolute best amp for the SR009, listening preferences being as broad as rock/ pop/ jazz/ classical/ hifi reference material? I prefer in the following order: naturalness, accurate tone and timber, body and midrange weight, resolution and imaging. It has to do all of that without sacrificing the ridiculous transients and speed of the 009 as well.

I will be using the MSB Analog, waiting for the Schiit Yggy.

I'm in the line for the BHSE, but I wonder how it compares with say the DIY T2, KGSSHV and KGST. Thoughts appreciated!


----------



## Moonhead

009 With KGSSHV are a nice pairing with all the power 009 Need, but it Can be somewhat bright in the top.

So maybe BHSE or KGST would be better match, i haven't tried does two but Spritzer recommend them for 009.


----------



## NoPants

I preferred the 009 out of the KGST over the BHSE for longer listening sessions


----------



## fuzzzy

dripf said:


> Rin Choi 's blog investigates the pro, signature and 207 models combined with ED-1, so please take a look. The signature EQ is not a diffuse field equalization.  I've reduced the 10k notch and introduced a low Q bass boost but at this moment I am using the native because of JACK issues. ED-1 is not exclusively for binaural applications. with respect to electronic stuff, I am talking about simple stereo works.  No matter how creative the work is, there always seems to be a careless treble ski jump.
> 
> I am referring to measurements of the O2. Most thoughts broadly agree with the graphs.


 
 I read his blog, in fact I printed it out and added it to my files. Having said that I don't agree with you. I was there, in those days, in Germany, directly involved in the listening (and recording ) part of this journey. Its not about close but it is about spot on (one of my Lamda Pro's is brand new and in a safe for a reason). That is not the case with the other models of the Lambda. Stax has also stated what the objective of the Omega was but unfortunately I can not produce the proof right now but neither can you. The Rin Choi blog is far from proof.


----------



## crazychile

So I've read about how some of you recommend ordering Stax gear from pricejapan.com. I have a couple of questions:
  
 1. Does using a Japanese Stax amp with a voltage converter have any sonic disadvantages compared to a USA model?
 2. If servicing is needed (warranty or not) can Stax USA fix an amp or does it have to go back to Japan?
 3. I'm assuming the price quoted from pricejapan.com does not include import duties when shipping to the US. What will I pay for duties on an SRM-323?
  
 I'm considering buying an SRM-323 to use with Koss ESP-950s sometime this summer. I know I'll also need to make a Koss-Stax adapter cable.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## fuzzzy

I am sure that dropping down the line voltage to an acceptable level for Stax amps will not hurt sound quality.
  
  
 They generally don't charge duty but you are legally required to and sometimes they will pull your package out and you will have to pay. That has happoened to me a few times over then year. Would I buy from Japan again. Yes.


----------



## fuzzzy

fuzzzy said:


> I am sure that dropping down the line voltage to an acceptable level for Stax amps will not hurt sound quality.
> 
> 
> They generally don't charge duty but you are legally required to and sometimes they will pull your package out and you will have to pay. That has happoened to me a few times over then year. Would I buy from Japan again. Yes.


 
 Also, I got several Stax units from Japan years ago and they were all international with switchable voltage. Has this changed?


----------



## schorsch

Diffuse Field Equalizers for Stax

ED-1 Monitor
ED-1 Signature
SRM-1 Monitor

And the Pawel HP-1
Can be set for all stax Modells
Omega, 007, 009

Regards Georg
PS: I use the SRM Monitor Maiblumenweg with my Sigma!!!


----------



## NoPants

crazychile said:


> So I've read about how some of you recommend ordering Stax gear from pricejapan.com. I have a couple of questions:
> 
> 1. Does using a Japanese Stax amp with a voltage converter have any sonic disadvantages compared to a USA model?
> 2. If servicing is needed (warranty or not) can Stax USA fix an amp or does it have to go back to Japan?
> ...


 
 don't use the jp version out of a us socket without a conversion transformer
  
 stax usa is not good for repairs, don't send them anything without asking for a breakdown of the estimated costs first
  
 pricejapan price is inclusive, save for any overhead such as wire transfer fees, paypal etc.


----------



## HemiSam

I do not recommend the Stax style plug sold by Moon Audio.  It's a POC.  To their credit, they are allowing me to return it.  
  
 Fortunately, I was kindly offered a better alternative for purchase which I used to make my adapter from the Koss extension cable.  Just waiting on my KGST to show up next month to help raise the ESP's to a new level.
  
  
 HS


----------



## Michgelsen

fuzzzy said:


> Also, I got several Stax units from Japan years ago and they were all international with switchable voltage. Has this changed?


 
  
 Yes, nowadays all Stax amps require resoldering of transformer leads to change the voltage. A step-down transforme is probably easier.


----------



## fuzzzy

michgelsen said:


> Yes, nowadays all Stax amps require resoldering of transformer leads to change the voltage. A step-down transforme is probably easier.


 

 NO doubt if the transformer has multiple taps I would resolder it. Much more efficient!


----------



## georgep

fuzzzy said:


> NO doubt if the transformer has multiple taps I would resolder it. Much more efficient!




The leads are cut though so it is not just a simple resolder job. You need to replace the removed connections to the transformer.


----------



## laevi

I'm a bit confused on whether or not the SRM-1/MK2 pictured below comes with any PRO bias outputs?
  

  
 I've seen versions of the SRM-1/MK2 on the web that come in different colors, with and without PRO bias outputs labeled on the front faceplate. I'm a bit confused and would appreciate any clarification. Thanks.


----------



## Sorrodje

There're different versions of this SRM1-mKII : see http://kenrockwell.com/audio/stax/srm-1-mk-2.htm .


----------



## Michgelsen

laevi said:


> I'm a bit confused on whether or not the SRM-1/MK2 pictured below comes with any PRO bias outputs?
> 
> I've seen versions of the SRM-1/MK2 on the web that come in different colors, with and without PRO bias outputs labeled on the front faceplate. I'm a bit confused and would appreciate any clarification. Thanks.


 
  
 The one on the picture only has six-pin outputs, meaning that it's normal bias only. Pro bias outputs would not have the center hole.


----------



## fuzzzy

Stax eye candy.


----------



## fuzzzy

georgep said:


> The leads are cut though so it is not just a simple resolder job. You need to replace the removed connections to the transformer.


 

 I wonder if someone could take a picture of the inside of one of these. I have been in a few Stax amps but like to see what this looks like.


----------



## b0bb

fuzzzy said:


> I wonder if someone could take a picture of the inside of one of these. I have been in a few Stax amps but like to see what this looks like.


 
 This one is from the 323, follow that thread below for more pictures.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/15720#post_7530298


----------



## fuzzzy

b0bb said:


> This one is from the 323, follow that thread below for more pictures.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/15720#post_7530298


 

 Thank you for this post. For me it is for sure a fix it item. as expected. I would rather have my stuff work correctly then with some attachment dangling of it. I presume that is not for everyone with lesser skills though. I suggest if you like this stuff then get a soldering iron and learn how to use it. I liked this stuff and started building kits and I build many. That was after endless fixings. Stax gear does break. With these nice instructions on this board that is a no brainer .


----------



## georgep

b0bb said:


> This one is from the 323, follow that thread below for more pictures.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/15720#post_7530298




That is a 323 before stax cut the leads - and super easy to do. The current ones aren't that simple. Try searching "727 cut leads" or something similar.


----------



## n3rdling

That 007 looks like it needs new pads


----------



## Ali-Pacha

fuzzzy said:


> Stax eye candy.


 
 So much worn items and so much dust, my heart hurts.
  
 Ali


----------



## NoPants

nothing wrong with components that get regular use


----------



## HemiSam

LOL.  The OCD are bubbling up to the top...
  
  




  
 HS


----------



## fuzzzy

nopants said:


> nothing wrong with components that get regular use


 

 I was going to comment and I still will, but you sum it up.
  
 Interesting statement about the dirty gear, completely unexpected, and maybe worth a comment.
  
 If I get into a car and drive a 100000 miles, summer winter, get my use out of it. Then it is likely that no one would warranty it anymore, not even Lexus warrants their cars at 100k, not even with an extended warranty. Why? They were actually used, so much in fact that they will have worn parts, are probably dirty and have worn out leather seats. 
  
 I have owned some of this since over 30 years. Many for 20. Stax came out with a component. I bought it. This stuff gets used typically 2 hours a day sometimes more sometime s little less of listening time but  no less.  Over 30 years would make 10000 hours or more, at 55mph that would be 600000 miles or more on a vehicle. Obviously that would be split up between different components but still. Several of them have completely worn out. The SRM1/Pro I had to rebuild twice. The tube gear are no good for extended times. It changes too much. The foams in many of the headphones are gone and the cables are twisted all over. Broke the headbands and glued them with super glue. I broke many extensions over and over. One thing I can tell you, I have a lot of time on these headphones. Beauty quickly doesn't matter. The vol knobs are downright dirty. The newer gear is going the same way, downhill. I have send 3 HD800 headsets to Sennheiser for repair. my first HD800 has a serial of less then 500, has been to Sennheiser twice, now on its 3rd trip and they respect it and rebuild it rather then send me a new one. Several of the Stax amps also have very low serial numbers.
  
 That is why they are so dirty and it is sad but they still make music.


----------



## realmassy

What's wrong with cleaning and dusting your equipment, even if they get a lot of use?
I used to have a old FIAT, made more than 100k KM and it was still looking nice...and that was a FIAT, sort of entry level


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I've some very old gear I'm using almost every day, but I make a point of keeping them in the best condition possible. It's indeed pretty easy with Stax gear, considering the build quality, and I like the idea of very old gear that look almost like new. Every time I buy some old gear, cleaning and replacing some parts are the second thing I do, just after a quick listening session to ensure everything's ok.
  
 I acknowledge it's part of my Monk / OCD side 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Ali


----------



## Earspeakers

I'm the farthest thing from anal retentive, but after many years of working in laboratories with lots of dirty electronics equipment I'm the same way. I have a 3M antistatic electronics vacuum I use to go over everything once a week, then do a wash down (special cleaning kits for keyboards and monitors). This is for my office where I have my audio gear and all my computers. The Stax gear just gets a wipedown with a microfiber cloth, since it's in a cabinet and under plastic hood (for the headphone) it doesn't pick up any dust (it gets the special treatment). 
  
 No fun using dusty or dirty equipment.


----------



## Rico613

lojay said:


> Hey guys, gonna ask a newbie question.
> 
> What is the absolute best amp for the SR009, listening preferences being as broad as rock/ pop/ jazz/ classical/ hifi reference material? I prefer in the following order: naturalness, accurate tone and timber, body and midrange weight, resolution and imaging. It has to do all of that without sacrificing the ridiculous transients and speed of the 009 as well.
> 
> ...


 

 I had a chance to audition a Cavalli LL2T a couple months ago.  I thought it sounded absolutely stunning.  The detail was amazing and went well beyond what I could hear with EC-445 with EML Mesh, and LCD3F's.  It really separated poorly recorded CD's from good ones.  I was amazed that some 1975 recordings sounded better than more recent SACD recordings.  Other recordings (1950's) that sounded okay on dynamics were just awful on stats.  There was some lack of depth compared to the LCD3's, but I think this is characteristic of the 009's rather than the amp.  I've got a KGSSHV coming so I may be able to do a comparison, but it's been a while since I heard the LL2T.  I'm also waiting for an all tube EC-Electra later this spring.  It will have 300b output tubes so it may be more musical than other stats amps.  At least that's what I'm hoping for.


----------



## astrostar59

> There was some lack of depth compared to the LCD3's, but I think this is characteristic of the 009's rather than the amp.


 
 I don't find that. The 009s are very wide as regards soundstage width and depth to me. I once thought the HD800s were wide, but since realised it was a false image i.e. as though the speakers were distant from the ears and created a kind of 'hole' in the middle.
  
 Maybe it is part down to the listener, ears are all different I guess, and the brain has to reposition everything and create a 'projection' in the head that replicates a true in front of the listener soundstage. If I am doing something at the same time on the computer, that messes things up, but if I relax and close my eyes, it all takes on a very big 3D image....


----------



## st3al

I'm planning to buy a pair of SR-407, but I found some kind of deal in my country (a pair of electret Stax SR-40 and the adapter srd-4) the price is not that good, but, hey it's a vintage pair of Stax. According to Tyll measurements, they lack some bass. I listen to proggresive metal and rock, mainly: dream theater, deep purple, david bowie, iron maiden, led zeppelin, metallica and nirvana.

I'm trying to help my wallet, but my heart says BUY IT! BUY IT!


----------



## Rico613

astrostar59 said:


> > There was some lack of depth compared to the LCD3's, but I think this is characteristic of the 009's rather than the amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I agree, the sound stage was second to none with the 009's.  I was referring to something like tonal depth, (hard to describe).  Listening to string quartets the cello just sounded so much deeper and richer on the LCD3s.  Someone said it was lack of bass from the 009's compared to LCD3s.  I was thinking maybe it was the EML Mesh Plate output tubes on my EC-445 and ECBA amps combined with the LCD3s.


----------



## Jones Bob

rico613 said:


> I agree, the sound stage was second to none with the 009's.  I was referring to something like tonal depth, (hard to describe).  Listening to string quartets the cello just sounded so much deeper and richer on the LCD3s.  Someone said it was lack of bass from the 009's compared to LCD3s.  I was thinking maybe it was the EML Mesh Plate output tubes on my EC-445 and ECBA amps combined with the LCD3s.




Have you fit the SR-009 your your individual head size? Makes a big difference with the reproduction of bass.


----------



## Rico613

jones bob said:


> rico613 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree, the sound stage was second to none with the 009's.  I was referring to something like tonal depth, (hard to describe).  Listening to string quartets the cello just sounded so much deeper and richer on the LCD3s.  Someone said it was lack of bass from the 009's compared to LCD3s.  I was thinking maybe it was the EML Mesh Plate output tubes on my EC-445 and ECBA amps combined with the LCD3s.
> ...


 

 None beyond the usual adjustments.  Maybe you can explain how that would work?


----------



## icebear

st3al said:


> I'm planning to buy a pair of SR-407, but I found some kind of deal in my country (a pair of electret Stax SR-40 and the adapter srd-4) the price is not that good, but, hey it's a vintage pair of Stax. According to Tyll measurements, they lack some bass. I listen to proggresive metal and rock, mainly: dream theater, deep purple, david bowie, iron maiden, led zeppelin, metallica and nirvana.
> 
> I'm trying to help my wallet, but my heart says BUY IT! BUY IT!


 
  
 ??? Given your music preference I'd say you will not end up happy with a Stax headphone.
 Your music calls for slamm and bass impact and not for revealing details, your call, just my $0.02


----------



## Moonhead

St3al 
I agree with icebear

Since you listen to a lot of Rock my bet is Audeze LCD2 might be up your alley.


----------



## Jones Bob

rico613 said:


> None beyond the usual adjustments.  Maybe you can explain how that would work?


 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/3900#post_11112805

Be advised that I have a head the size of a basketball.


----------



## Rico613

jones bob said:


> rico613 said:
> 
> 
> > None beyond the usual adjustments.  Maybe you can explain how that would work?
> ...


 
  I've got a 7-5/8" hat size so maybe that explains it!!  I know I max out the adjustments on the headband so I'll give it a try.  Sounds too easy though !!


----------



## st3al

icebear said:


> ??? Given your music preference I'd say you will not end up happy with a Stax headphone.
> Your music calls for slamm and bass impact and not for revealing details, your call, just my $0.02







moonhead said:


> St3al
> I agree with icebear
> 
> Since you listen to a lot of Rock my bet is Audeze LCD2 might be up your alley.





Thanks for your replies. Wanted to be part of the stax mafia :rolleyes:


----------



## Rico613

> Thanks for your replies. Wanted to be part of the stax mafia


 
  
 I'm sure you'd qualify as an honorary member since you ask intelligent questions !!


----------



## paradoxper

I primarily listen to metal, progressive, etc blah and found the 009 to be among the best headphones for that genre.
  
 IMO if you want more body, slam and impact the HE-6 is the only headphone I'd recommend you go for.


----------



## negura

st3al said:


> I'm planning to buy a pair of SR-407, but I found some kind of deal in my country (a pair of electret Stax SR-40 and the adapter srd-4) the price is not that good, but, hey it's a vintage pair of Stax. According to Tyll measurements, they lack some bass. I listen to proggresive metal and rock, mainly: dream theater, deep purple, david bowie, iron maiden, led zeppelin, metallica and nirvana.
> 
> I'm trying to help my wallet, but my heart says BUY IT! BUY IT!


 
  
 I listen to a lot of metal and rock. The SR-009s are one of the best headphones for metal and the 007 MKIs are not far off. That may be counter-intuitive going by description or until they're heard on an amp that can do great bass and slam.


----------



## Jones Bob

negura said:


> I listen to a lot of metal and rock. The SR-009s are one of the best headphones for metal and the 007 MKIs are not far off. That may be counter-intuitive going by description or until they're heard on an amp that can do great bass and slam.


 

Listening as I type to the 96k/24 bit remaster of Jethro Tull's A Passion Play. I have only heard my SR-099s with my KGST and it makes me feel like when I heard it in concert in 1973. Pure bliss.......


----------



## Dopaminer

For gereral interest, STAX mono-block amps from 1980 for sale at a used shop in Japan : 
  
http://www.hifido.co.jp/KWstax/G1--/P/A10/J/0-10/S0/M0/C14-83168-21129-00/


----------



## Rossliew

paradoxper said:


> I primarily listen to metal, progressive, etc blah and found the 009 to be among the best headphones for that genre.
> 
> IMO if you want more body, slam and impact the HE-6 is the only headphone I'd recommend you go for.


 

 Would the 009/BHSE pairing be good for metal as well? I noticed in your sig stating you have the KGSSHV driving your 009s. Wondering if the tubes will "tame" the attack needed for metal. TIA


----------



## Rossliew

negura said:


> I listen to a lot of metal and rock. The SR-009s are one of the best headphones for metal and the 007 MKIs are not far off. That may be counter-intuitive going by description or until they're heard on an amp that can do great bass and slam.


 

 My 007 Mk IIs with the KGST is also great for metal and rock. Now wondering if the 009/KGST combo would be even better...


----------



## paradoxper

rossliew said:


> Would the 009/BHSE pairing be good for metal as well? I noticed in your sig stating you have the KGSSHV driving your 009s. Wondering if the tubes will "tame" the attack needed for metal. TIA


 
 It wasn't until the HV that I was happy with the 009. In the past the BHSE/009 was too fatiguing for me. Now there's speculation that there are variances between
 older S/N 009 and new ones. So I don't know. I'd not say the BHSE blunts anything though, it's always been the better technical amp per vs KGSSHV.


----------



## lojay

rico613 said:


> I had a chance to audition a Cavalli LL2T a couple months ago.  I thought it sounded absolutely stunning.  The detail was amazing and went well beyond what I could hear with EC-445 with EML Mesh, and LCD3F's.  It really separated poorly recorded CD's from good ones.  I was amazed that some 1975 recordings sounded better than more recent SACD recordings.  Other recordings (1950's) that sounded okay on dynamics were just awful on stats.  There was some lack of depth compared to the LCD3's, but I think this is characteristic of the 009's rather than the amp.  I've got a KGSSHV coming so I may be able to do a comparison, but it's been a while since I heard the LL2T.  I'm also waiting for an all tube EC-Electra later this spring.  It will have 300b output tubes so it may be more musical than other stats amps.  At least that's what I'm hoping for.


 Hey thanks, good to hear from you again.

I have just bought the Teton and am comparing it with the EC 445. Very different amps and I still love the 445 for classical. I think it is hard to improve on detail for the 445 & HD800 combo so it may be the LCD3F that's the limiting factor.

That being said, the SR009 presents resolution like no other pair of cans. I just need the right amp to drive it. Having lived with the EC 445 for a while I think I like a straight wire with gain sound with a slight added warmth and with no harshness. The Woo amps are out of the question. Tube amps are preferable. Perhaps I will just need to wait for the BHSE!


----------



## lojay

paradoxper said:


> It wasn't until the HV that I was happy with the 009. In the past the BHSE/009 was too fatiguing for me. Now there's speculation that there are variances between
> older S/N 009 and new ones. So I don't know. I'd not say the BHSE blunts anything though, it's always been the better technical amp per vs KGSSHV.


 Hey Cory, what DAC were you using when you came to the view that the BHSE was fatiguing?


----------



## paradoxper

lojay said:


> Hey Cory, what DAC were you using when you came to the view that the BHSE was fatiguing?


 
 Jason, It was never the source. Heard it extensively with an AN kit I think. 2.7 or 3. And PWD. And the tubes were basic. I never got to roll with popular SED Winged, etc.


----------



## lojay

paradoxper said:


> Jason, It was never the source. Heard it extensively with an AN kit I think. 2.7 or 3. And PWD. And the tubes were basic. I never got to roll with popular SED Winged, etc.


I see. Those should be smooth sources. I read that tube rolling helps.
 This is always a pain - lean and detailed amps make certain recordings sound magnificent but others unlistenable.


----------



## paradoxper

lojay said:


> I see. Those should be smooth sources. I read that tube rolling helps.
> This is always a pain - lean and detailed amps make certain recordings sound magnificent but others unlistenable.


 
 I am more inclined to believe there may have been variances in the 009 than the BHSE being inherently fatiguing itself. Then again, with the HV I'd 
 still say the 009 is somewhat bright, but it just is no where near fatiguing.


----------



## Rossliew

paradoxper said:


> It wasn't until the HV that I was happy with the 009. In the past the BHSE/009 was too fatiguing for me. Now there's speculation that there are variances between
> older S/N 009 and new ones. So I don't know. I'd not say the BHSE blunts anything though, it's always been the better technical amp per vs KGSSHV.


 
 Thanks..it is probably a matter of personal taste but seeing as how expensive the BHSE is, it would be a very, very difficult choice to make as to whether I should purchase the BHSE or just get the 009 to pair with my existing KGST.


----------



## Rossliew

paradoxper said:


> I am more inclined to believe there may have been variances in the 009 than the BHSE being inherently fatiguing itself. Then again, with the HV I'd
> still say the 009 is somewhat bright, but it just is no where near fatiguing.


 

 Sorry, is your 009 a more recent version or an older one?


----------



## paradoxper

rossliew said:


> Thanks..it is probably a matter of personal taste but seeing as how expensive the BHSE is, it would be a very, very difficult choice to make as to whether I should purchase the BHSE or just get the 009 to pair with my existing KGST.


 
 If possible, give it a listen yourself. I believe there could be many factors to my experience, but yours may be different. For whatever it's worth, I am still pursuing a BHSE path
 with the DIY T2, which should add a touch more warmth and perhaps be more like the HV or even KGST. Ask someone with all the gears, purk or maybe Spritzer on 
 how they view the KGST vs BHSE.


----------



## paradoxper

rossliew said:


> Sorry, is your 009 a more recent version or an older one?


 
 Yea, mine is a recent S/N. I haven't compared old vs new, but there seems to be strong speculation they sound different ala 007 mk 1 variances.


----------



## Rossliew

paradoxper said:


> Yea, mine is a recent S/N. I haven't compared old vs new, but there seems to be strong speculation they sound different ala 007 mk 1 variances.


 

 What Birgir mentioned was that newer 009s are supposedly more tolerable in the treble region. You're right, i will check with the others for some impressions. No chance in auditioning the combo here in Malaysia - i hardly hear or seen anyone with these gears.


----------



## negura

paradoxper said:


> Yea, mine is a recent S/N. I haven't compared old vs new, but there seems to be strong speculation they sound different ala 007 mk 1 variances.


 
  
 Could it be the older ones had burn-in whereas the newer didn't?
  
 Just saying:
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR009SZ91278.pdf
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR009SZ91278afterburnin.pdf


----------



## paradoxper

negura said:


> Could it be the older ones had burn-in whereas the newer didn't?
> 
> Just saying:
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR009SZ91278.pdf
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR009SZ91278afterburnin.pdf


 
 I don't know. Same with the 007 mk 1, I haven't compared different S/N to come to my own conclusion.


----------



## Golfnutz

Over the past 4 months I’ve been using the brown based ‘DD’ getter tubes with my SR=009/BHSE. If I had to describe the sound of these tubes in one word, it would be ‘Analog’. As long as I’ve owned my BHSE, I’ve never experienced fatigue. My normal usage is 40+ hours per week at typical volume levels.


----------



## negura

Which DAC are you using?


----------



## Rossliew

Speaking of DACs, I will be using the Gungnir - anyone have experience using this DAC with 009/BHSE or KGSSHV combo?


----------



## Golfnutz

negura said:


> Which DAC are you using?


 
 MSB Platinum III


----------



## negura

The MSBs are particularly smooth R2Rs. Not heard the III though.


----------



## Golfnutz

negura said:


> The MSBs are particularly smooth R2Rs. Not heard the III though.


 

 To be honest, I think the BHSE/DD tubes have a bigger impact than the DAC. I hear the same differences with my Oppo BDP-95.
  
 It's quite evident why there's claims the brown based DD getter tubes are one of the all time best EL34. You only need to use them with the BHSE to find out why.


----------



## yawg

dopaminer said:


> For gereral interest, STAX mono-block amps from 1980 for sale at a used shop in Japan :
> 
> http://www.hifido.co.jp/KWstax/G1--/P/A10/J/0-10/S0/M0/C14-83168-21129-00/


 
 I had them some years ago powering my Martin Logan full range electrostatic speakers. Great amps, especially for colder climates, they are generating a lot of heat. 100W RMS class-A. But you can also run them in A/B mode, switching to class-B at over 10W with high-efficiency speakers.


----------



## Jones Bob

rossliew said:


> Speaking of DACs, I will be using the Gungnir - anyone have experience using this DAC with 009/BHSE or KGSSHV combo?




I'm using the Gungnir balanced to a KGST and SR-009. Enjoying it immensely, but will get a Yggy when it become available.


----------



## astrostar59

rossliew said:


> Would the 009/BHSE pairing be good for metal as well? I noticed in your sig stating you have the KGSSHV driving your 009s. Wondering if the tubes will "tame" the attack needed for metal. TIA


 
 Worry not my friend. The BHSE rocks hard! I love the sound of it with rock such as Ramstien, it is like having your head inside a Marshal amp. My friend has that system and I have heard it many times. I also love the sound of the KGSShv with the 009s on rock as well (which I own). They are both tops amp combos with the 009s. You can't go wrong IMO.


----------



## Rossliew

astrostar59 said:


> Worry not my friend. The BHSE rocks hard! I love the sound of it with rock such as Ramstien, it is like having your head inside a Marshal amp. My friend has that system and I have heard it many times. I also love the sound of the KGSShv with the 009s on rock as well (which I own). They are both tops amp combos with the 009s. You can't go wrong IMO.


 
  
 Cheers, bro! Tough choices there..the 009s are cheaper than the BHSE but somehow the BHSE seems more attractive, calling me towards it hahaha..
  
 Here's a question to you - would you shell out for a BHSE since you've heard what they can do and taking into account you already have the KGSSHV?


----------



## fuzzzy

I like the post about the Stax power amps above. What memories!
  
  
 Is anyone aware of the Stax binaural record label of the 80s or has any of the recordings?


----------



## yawg

fuzzzy said:


> I like the post about the Stax power amps above. What memories!
> 
> 
> Is anyone aware of the Stax binaural record label of the 80s or has any of the recordings?


 
  
 Yeah, they are great amps.
  
 My EAR 549 tube monoblocks beat them, though. Those are a 200W/ch. symmetrical design designed by Tim de Paravicini to drive record cutting lathes in the studio. Driver and phase splitter tubes are NOS German gray plates from the 60s and US triple mica black plates from the 50s. Bi-amping they power the treble and mids of my 3.6R Maggies, a real delight.


----------



## Michgelsen

fuzzzy said:


> Is anyone aware of the Stax binaural record label of the 80s or has any of the recordings?


 
  
 I had one such double cd on the Stax label, made by the German distributor. It was classical music, but the performance wasn't good, so I sold it.


----------



## John Buchanan

The Stax Space Sound Cd is a wonderful collection of binaural recordings. Pick it up if you ever see one - seriously real sounding. Been out of print for at least 20 years, though.


----------



## astrostar59

rossliew said:


> Cheers, bro! Tough choices there..the 009s are cheaper than the BHSE but somehow the BHSE seems more attractive, calling me towards it hahaha..
> 
> Here's a question to you - would you shell out for a BHSE since you've heard what they can do and taking into account you already have the KGSSHV?


 
 Hi Rossliew
 No, though the BHSE is a great amp, it is not that better than my KGSShv. I would say they are equals actually. The KGSShv is slightly waker (oddly) and possibly has better dynamics and bass. The BHSE slightly better transparency on vocal and classical for example. But it is real close. Too close IMO for me to consider spending 3 times the money on a BHSE. Plus I have had valve gear for years, and still use my valve DAC, but wanted an easier to use amp for my Stax system. i.e. leave it on when I go out with the dogs, not have to spend on valves, not worry about heat etc.
  
 If I was you, I would get the 009s, and find a DIY builder or finished KGSShv to match up with it. They go so well together. The BHSE is reported to some to be a better match with the 007s Mk1s, but I found the 009s and the BHSE (with David's PSVane tubes) sounds fabulous.


----------



## Rossliew

astrostar59 said:


> Hi Rossliew
> No, though the BHSE is a great amp, it is not that better than my KGSShv. I would say they are equals actually. The KGSShv is slightly waker (oddly) and possibly has better dynamics and bass. The BHSE slightly better transparency on vocal and classical for example. But it is real close. Too close IMO for me to consider spending 3 times the money on a BHSE. Plus I have had valve gear for years, and still use my valve DAC, but wanted an easier to use amp for my Stax system. i.e. leave it on when I go out with the dogs, not have to spend on valves, not worry about heat etc.
> 
> If I was you, I would get the 009s, and find a DIY builder or finished KGSShv to match up with it. They go so well together. The BHSE is reported to some to be a better match with the 007s Mk1s, but I found the 009s and the BHSE (with David's PSVane tubes) sounds fabulous.


 

 Laws of diminishing returns setting in I suppose. But yes, you have a valid point - a lot of it also depends on the type of music one listens to. For me, i would value dynamics and bass over vocal transparency. Presently, my 007 Mk II/KGST combo is ticking all the right boxes and should I move up the chain to the 009/KGSSHV or BHSE, i would naturally expect a move up in the sonics department as well. Like you, i am also tired of bidding/buying tubes for rolling. Thankfully i have no need to do so with the KGST.
  
 I will take your advice to heart and mull over my options then : )


----------



## astrostar59

rossliew said:


> Laws of diminishing returns setting in I suppose. But yes, you have a valid point - a lot of it also depends on the type of music one listens to. For me, i would value dynamics and bass over vocal transparency. Presently, my 007 Mk II/KGST combo is ticking all the right boxes and should I move up the chain to the 009/KGSSHV or BHSE, i would naturally expect a move up in the sonics department as well. Like you, i am also tired of bidding/buying tubes for rolling. Thankfully i have no need to do so with the KGST.
> 
> I will take your advice to heart and mull over my options then : )


 
  
 I have heard from folk who own a recent build KGST it is a great amp. I have not directly compared it yet to my KGSShv or the BHSE. Now seeing you have a KGST I would say you will have major gains by using the 009s as opposed to the 007s. The 009s have more of everything and that includes dynamic headroom and bass power / slam. I would guess (you need to talk to folk who have both) that the KGST is close to my KGSShv or the BHSE as regards level of sound quality on offer. You can also buy nice NOS tubes for that amp really cheap. 
  
 Get the 009s and then see. You may well find it is your end game. I have stopped where I am, I am enjoying the 009s with my amp too much....


----------



## Rossliew

astrostar59 said:


> I have heard from folk who own a recent build KGST it is a great amp. I have not directly compared it yet to my KGSShv or the BHSE. Now seeing you have a KGST I would say you will have major gains by using the 009s as opposed to the 007s. The 009s have more of everything and that includes dynamic headroom and bass power / slam. I would guess (you need to talk to folk who have both) that the KGST is close to my KGSShv or the BHSE as regards level of sound quality on offer. You can also buy nice NOS tubes for that amp really cheap.
> 
> Get the 009s and then see. You may well find it is your end game. I have stopped where I am, I am enjoying the 009s with my amp too much....


 

 Sounds from the KGST are rock solid with good foundation, great bass impact and treble extension as well. Really end game and it is also tolerant of less than stellar recordings, which is a plus point for me. Oh, and a slight hint of tube lushness, very slight : ) I'm not too brave to tube roll in these high voltage amps so i'll leave em be LOL. Birgir calls them the mini-BHSE, so i presume they will lean towards the sound of the BHSE. But i am keen to try a SS amp for the Stax but due to the prohibitive costs, i can only afford the luxury of one more item, be it an amp or the headphones. Speaking of the 009s, i worry about channel imbalances, feedback seems to make them sound like a regular occurrence  - what's your take on that, if any?


----------



## mulveling

I agree with astrostar59's thoughts on this. In your position I'd get the 009 and run them happily from KGST. But of course, transducer changes can be traumatic depending on how entrenched the predecessor's sound has become in your audio mind-space -- even if the new one is superior (which it is, in this case). I've gone through that before with headphones, MC cartridges, and speakers. Your KGST is a good pairing with the 009; tonally it balances out nicely. However, you'll get a marked decrease in lushness compared to what you're used to with the 007. What I love about the 009 is the sense of a _complete_ absence of distortion and other artifacts over the full FR spectrum, even into higher volumes.


----------



## Jones Bob

rossliew said:


> Sounds from the KGST are rock solid with good foundation, great bass impact and treble extension as well. Really end game and it is also tolerant of less than stellar recordings, which is a plus point for me. Oh, and a slight hint of tube lushness, very slight : ) I'm not too brave to tube roll in these high voltage amps so i'll leave em be LOL. Birgir calls them the mini-BHSE, so i presume they will lean towards the sound of the BHSE. But i am keen to try a SS amp for the Stax but due to the prohibitive costs, i can only afford the luxury of one more item, be it an amp or the headphones. Speaking of the 009s, i worry about channel imbalances, feedback seems to make them sound like a regular occurrence  - what's your take on that, if any?


 

On Birgir's website he comparing the KGST to the BHSE "Sound wise they are very similar but the KGST is warmer and more forgiving making it a better match to the SR-009."

The KGST is an easy build. It could be built for well under $1000. But if tubes ain't yo thang, Birgir is cooking up a variation using new Silicon Carbide FETs.


----------



## HemiSam

Can't wait to get my paws on my KGST....
  

  
  
  





  
 HS


----------



## Rossliew

mulveling said:


> I agree with astrostar59's thoughts on this. In your position I'd get the 009 and run them happily from KGST. But of course, transducer changes can be traumatic depending on how entrenched the predecessor's sound has become in your audio mind-space -- even if the new one is superior (which it is, in this case). I've gone through that before with headphones, MC cartridges, and speakers. Your KGST is a good pairing with the 009; tonally it balances out nicely. However, you'll get a marked decrease in lushness compared to what you're used to with the 007. What I love about the 009 is the sense of a _complete_ absence of distortion and other artifacts over the full FR spectrum, even into higher volumes.


 
 I'm ok with the loss of lushness so long as dynamics, bass impact/slam is there. The 007s provide a very decent amount and quality of bass impact and i'm just wary if the "leanness" of the 009 (possibly due to its more neutral character) will dilute the bass impact somewhat. Over time, i suppose our ears and mind will adjust to the sound sig.
  


jones bob said:


> On Birgir's website he comparing the KGST to the BHSE "Sound wise they are very similar but the KGST is warmer and more forgiving making it a better match to the SR-009."
> 
> The KGST is an easy build. It could be built for well under $1000. But if tubes ain't yo thang, Birgir is cooking up a variation using new Silicon Carbide FETs.


 
  
 Yes, i read that as well. Let's see when the variant will be unleashed 
  


hemisam said:


> Can't wait to get my paws on my KGST....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You will not be disappointed, my friend!


----------



## mulveling

rossliew said:


> I'm ok with the loss of lushness so long as dynamics, bass impact/slam is there. The 007s provide a very decent amount and quality of bass impact and i'm just wary if the "leanness" of the 009 (possibly due to its more neutral character) will dilute the bass impact somewhat. Over time, i suppose our ears and mind will adjust to the sound sig.


 
  
 Yeah, the impact/slam is all there my friend. Definitely *not* a lean headphone (e.g. I find the Sennheiser Orpheus and Sony R10 -- even "bass heavy" versions -- to be lean in a way that significantly reduces my enjoyment of them). Overall bass quality is the best you'll hear out of anything, anywhere. What it's got is a slightly raised presence the in upper mids, but not to any troubling degree (just don't pair it with bright upstream gear). Yours is a good move -- get the 009 now, get used to them, get happy.
  
 Pretty curious about the new SiC KGSShv variant myself, though the old ones are so good (basically only a T2 decisively beats them in my opinion) it's hard to imagine further improvement.


----------



## Rossliew

mulveling said:


> Yeah, the impact/slam is all there my friend. Definitely *not* a lean headphone (e.g. I find the Sennheiser Orpheus and Sony R10 -- even "bass heavy" versions -- to be lean in a way that significantly reduces my enjoyment of them). Overall bass quality is the best you'll hear out of anything, anywhere. What it's got is a slightly raised presence the in upper mids, but not to any troubling degree (just don't pair it with bright upstream gear). Yours is a good move -- get the 009 now, get used to them, get happy.
> 
> Pretty curious about the new SiC KGSShv variant myself, though the old ones are so good (basically only a T2 decisively beats them in my opinion) it's hard to imagine further improvement.


 
 Advice will be taken seriously


----------



## dripf

Hmm, looking at off-site measurements of the Omega, they indeed do appear to be diffuse field equalized as fuzzzy suggested. They must sound very distinct compared to the rest of the range.


----------



## Tachikoma

rossliew said:


> Sounds from the KGST are rock solid with good foundation, great bass impact and treble extension as well. Really end game and it is also tolerant of less than stellar recordings, which is a plus point for me. Oh, and a slight hint of tube lushness, very slight : ) I'm not too brave to tube roll in these high voltage amps so i'll leave em be LOL. Birgir calls them the mini-BHSE, so i presume they will lean towards the sound of the BHSE. But i am keen to try a SS amp for the Stax but due to the prohibitive costs, i can only afford the luxury of one more item, be it an amp or the headphones. Speaking of the 009s, i worry about channel imbalances, feedback seems to make them sound like a regular occurrence  - what's your take on that, if any?


 

 I would wait until Stax figures its **** out before buying the 009s, or possibly only buy them in person in Japan - hell, its probably cheaper that way once you factor in customs.


----------



## negura

As described on several accounts the problems don't always come outright. It sometimes takes several weeks in user's possession for the SR-009s to develop a fault. Not sure getting them in Japan then flying elsewhere is a substitute for warranty.


----------



## Tachikoma

There are no Stax dealers in Malaysia, so warranty is moot one way or another. Buying it in person allows you to deal with someone who isn't PriceJapan/some other deputy service I guess.


----------



## negura

The way I understand it warranties are only valid in Japan, so unless one would be planning multiple trips for warranty purpose, relying on an intermediary would be required anyway. Caveat emptor is if anyone actually has a trusted associate in Japan, then yes, that might work. I would assume most people don't.
  
 OTOH PJ does seem to provide warranty service going again by multiple reports here.
  
 Like with any more or less fault prone headphones, (which includes some Audeze, Hifiman etc), it would be advisable to purchase with a worst case scenario in mind. The exception that seems to consistently apply to the SR-009s is that if they did not develop a fault for a number of months since purchase, they tend to stay good.
  
 I know if I was going to buy a pair of SR-009s tomorrow, I would look for used ones, at least 2-3 months old.


----------



## Rossliew

I would take negura's advice and get a used pair which has been used without trouble over  3 month period or longer. Its cheaper and you also get the benefit of some sort of running in, for whatever its worth.


----------



## Dopaminer

Like this SR-009 ?  US$2500.  Look newish, and this shop is great.  I bought my FOSTEX speakers here.  
  
 http://www.hifido.co.jp/KWstax/G1--/P/A10/J/0-10/S0/M0/C15-85980-37484-00/


----------



## Rossliew

dopaminer said:


> Like this SR-009 ?  US$2500.  Look newish, and this shop is great.  I bought my FOSTEX speakers here.
> 
> http://www.hifido.co.jp/KWstax/G1--/P/A10/J/0-10/S0/M0/C15-85980-37484-00/


 

 Are these used? they look pristine.


----------



## Rossliew

Ok found the English translation. It's on Hold - does that mean reserved?


----------



## Dopaminer

rossliew said:


> Are these used? they look pristine.


 

 They are probably an open-box deal, never actually used by anyone. Or they were purchased by someone who just has to have everything, never used, and then traded in for something else.  I see high-end gear like this all the time in Japan. My Fostex GX250 and G1300 speakers, from the same store, were also like-new.  They gave me 5% discount for no apparent reason, too.  
  
 I don`t see anything about them being on hold . . .   
 Anyway, 009s and 007s come up all the time like this, here.   
  
 I don`t want to temp you, but I fly between Japan and Southeast asia several times a year (BKK and KL) and there are some seriously cheap flights these days . . . . . .  (devilsh laughter)


----------



## Failed Engineer

rossliew said:


> Are these used? they look pristine.


 
  
 That's a pretty high serial number.  Mine are 29XX and just got them a couple months ago.  So probably a demo.


----------



## Lan647

Edit: Never mind


----------



## Earspeakers

I'm considering getting a pair of the 009's with my BHSE from HeadAmp. If these develop an issue will Justin be able to take care of it? Other thoughts?
  
 Unfortunate that such an expensive piece of equipment is apparently having these issues.


----------



## bearFNF

earspeakers said:


> I'm considering getting a pair of the 009's with my BHSE from HeadAmp. If these develop an issue will Justin be able to take care of it? Other thoughts?
> 
> Unfortunate that such an expensive piece of equipment is apparently having these issues.


 

 He should be able to, as he is an authorized dealer.


----------



## Rossliew

dopaminer said:


> They are probably an open-box deal, never actually used by anyone. Or they were purchased by someone who just has to have everything, never used, and then traded in for something else.  I see high-end gear like this all the time in Japan. My Fostex GX250 and G1300 speakers, from the same store, were also like-new.  They gave me 5% discount for no apparent reason, too.
> 
> I don`t see anything about them being on hold . . .
> Anyway, 009s and 007s come up all the time like this, here.
> ...


 
  
 That's almost as good as new. Wonder if it has the dreaded channel imbalance issue..
  
 As for tempting me, you already DID ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Now i need to do something about it short of flying over to Tokyo. Getting a visa is a big hassle so despite the low fares, it's a non-starter for me LOL
  
 If you happen to swing by the shop, could you have a listen (if they allow auditions) and see if it's all fine?


failed engineer said:


> That's a pretty high serial number.  Mine are 29XX and just got them a couple months ago.  So probably a demo.


 
 Good point there. Demos should be working units without any issues...


----------



## NotaLefty

How does an entry level Stax system compare to a similarly priced dynamic headphone?


----------



## Dopaminer

rossliew said:


> That's almost as good as new. Wonder if it has the dreaded channel imbalance issue..
> 
> As for tempting me, you already DID !
> 
> ...


 

 Hey, sorry: I forgot about Japan`s ridiculous, basically racist visa issues.  They recently dropped it for Thais, who can now come for 2 weeks without visa, but I guess Malaysia is still not on the list.  I had to sponsor some Malaysian friends who came here for shopping, and the papers I had to sign were absurd.   Considering Japan`s huge investmentst in SEA, it`s bizarre to me that they let basically any westerner waltz into the country no questions asked, but make the neighbors jump through so many hoops.  
  
That shop, btw, is the Osaka branch; I`m in Tokyo . .     
  
But like I said, 009s and 007s are regularly available at large discounts in either Tokyo or Osaka (I know this because I am constantly on the edge of finally entering the STAX matrix and graze the online sellers far more than is healthy).  With the prices these go for overseas, I would seriously consider a trip to Japan if I were going to invest in an 009.  The yen lost 30% in 2012-13 so in Japan the 009 + cheap flight + cheap hotel is less than the overseas prices, even if you biuy one new ! 
  
 This one just sold for us$2400 with 6month warranty:
 http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/products/detail74873.html
  
 New they`re us$3000 or less:
 http://kakaku.com/item/K0000236482/?lid=ksearch_kakakuitem_image


----------



## Rossliew

dopaminer said:


> Hey, sorry: I forgot about Japan`s ridiculous, basically racist visa issues.  They recently dropped it for Thais, who can now come for 2 weeks without visa, but I guess Malaysia is still not on the list.  I had to sponsor some Malaysian friends who came here for shopping, and the papers I had to sign were absurd.   Considering Japan`s huge investmentst in SEA, it`s bizarre to me that they let basically any westerner waltz into the country no questions asked, but make the neighbors jump through so many hoops.
> 
> That shop, btw, is the Osaka branch; I`m in Tokyo . .
> 
> ...


 
  
 Such are the hassles facing us. But the yen has depreciated some what so it's quite a good deal purchasing direct from Japan except for the language barrier. Does the Osaka shop ship international? I would seriously consider getting a pair at that price but would be good if i knew beforehand if there is any channel imbalance.


----------



## paradoxper

The issue is a channel imbalance doesn't show itself right out of the box. I believe most reports
 are an imbalance develops within the first couple of days to couple of weeks.
 It seems like if you make it past a month it won't be a problem.


----------



## Michgelsen

notalefty said:


> How does an entry level Stax system compare to a similarly priced dynamic headphone?


 
  
 That depends whether 'similarly priced' includes the amp, since you need a special amp for Stax. Still, in my opinion the SRS-2050 system (now 2170 system, same should apply) trounces the HD800.
 A second-hand SR-202 without amp goes for about €200, so is MUCH better value than a second-hand HD800 or any dynamic for that matter. The speed, detail, clarity, freedom from distortion, and overal tightness of the sound can't be matched by any dynamic. A lot of people don't go back after hearing Stax, although some do for some reason.
 If you're considering going Stax, I'd suggest to start with entry-level SRS-2170 system, and only upgrade if you can go for a SR-007 or SR-009, or maybe the Koss ESP-950 as a small upgrade or sidestep. The Lambdas in between are not that much better (if at all) than the entry-level system, I think. For me, this includes the vintage ones.


----------



## Amarphael

I too have enjoyed my time with a sr-202 out of the srm717 much more than the hd800+spl auditor, not that the basic lambdas were technically superior (hd800 offered noticeably more detail and spatial rendering) but because of the natural effortlessness and timbre to the sound, it just felt much more true to the source.

Same applies to the sr007A out of a KGSS I have now, minus the technical deficiencies


----------



## Earspeakers

notalefty said:


> How does an entry level Stax system compare to a similarly priced dynamic headphone?


 

 Personally I don't think there's a comparison. I ran the gamut of SET's/horns, planers, OTL's and dynamic headphones but was never satisfied with any of them, until I finally tried the $1k 407/323S combination. Of course this all somewhat subjective. If you don't like speciality amps, or headphones (some people like big speakers) then these won't work. Also if you like coloration you won't like Stax so much. However if you like absolute accurate reproduction then Stax is your package. I'm a life long classical musician and that's all I listen to, nothing before these could adequately reproduce strings, a large ensemble, or piano (to name a few). They always muddy it up. These headphones are the closest thing to being there I've ever heard. I just got the complete Callas Remastered set and my god, she's come alive again, and the orchestra and other soloists. 
  
 I'm perfectly happy with my 407's/323S frankly, but just because I'm stupid I'm on order for a BHSE and probably a 009 as well. With Stax it seems like people either don't like them, or instantly fall in love and never leave.


----------



## Rossliew

paradoxper said:


> The issue is a channel imbalance doesn't show itself right out of the box. I believe most reports
> are an imbalance develops within the first couple of days to couple of weeks.
> It seems like if you make it past a month it won't be a problem.


 

 OK, so it's pretty much a gamble buying the 009s unless the seller can vouch for it after having owned them for more than 2 months.


----------



## negura

rossliew said:


> OK, so it's pretty much a gamble buying the 009s unless the seller can vouch for it after having owned them for more than 2 months.


 
  
 Pretty much so. And previous owner should have used them rather than kept them in the box for 2 months.  The pads are a give-away to that.


----------



## Earspeakers

To anybody considering buying in Japan, don't forget you have to pay tax in that case, 10% IIRC, and it's going up shortly. 
  
 I used to work in Japan and have a friend there still who would buy it for me. But I'm thinking against that. Once you add in tax, shipping, his time and the fact that you're not dealing with a shop (any issues and I'd have to send them back to my friend, etc), the savings aren't quite so good.


----------



## paradoxper

rossliew said:


> OK, so it's pretty much a gamble buying the 009s unless the seller can vouch for it after having owned them for more than 2 months.


 
 At least in the U.S. I think any way you slice it there is always a risk. Unless someone like Headamp could just swap out an imbalanced pair for another,
 it's pretty hard getting ahold of Yama's for repair or whatever.


----------



## Staxi

Anybody tried the 009s with the original T2 combo? If so how to describe the experience in comparison with the 009s using other top amps such as kgsshv, bhse. Reason for asking is that after a long wait it is now possible to acquire a fine looking T2 combo on eBay.


----------



## NoPants

You shouldn't purchase the original T2 amplifier, this has been discussed at length


----------



## Staxi

Thx. Would you mind summarize just a few pointers as to why not. Thx in advance.


----------



## cucera

staxi said:


> Thx. Would you mind summarize just a few pointers as to why not. Thx in advance.




Simply, because they tend to catch fire, and I am not talking about burn in (except literal)


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Reliability. PSU. Brittle PCB toasted by heat.

 Ali


----------



## Tachikoma

rossliew said:


> As for tempting me, you already DID !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Japan did grant us visa-free access for 90 days, as long as you have a new-ish passport. My passport is expiring soon so that will be perfect for me, at least


----------



## Rossliew

tachikoma said:


> Japan did grant us visa-free access for 90 days, as long as you have a new-ish passport. My passport is expiring soon so that will be perfect for me, at least


 
 I believe granting of the visa is not an issue. There's the hassle of proving your personal networth and a supporting letter from your current employer as part of the submission just to show them that you are financially able to support yourself whilst in Japan without the need to obtain employment there (usually illegally).
  
 So, will you be heading to Japan soon?


----------



## n3rdling

staxi said:


> Anybody tried the 009s with the original T2 combo? If so how to describe the experience in comparison with the 009s using other top amps such as kgsshv, bhse. Reason for asking is that after a long wait it is now possible to acquire a fine looking T2 combo on eBay.


 
 That T2 is massively overpriced.  I've seen them sell for $4k-7k in the past few years.  Really there's no reason not to get a BHSE at that price point.  Better components, more reliable, serviceable and easier to troubleshoot, you don't lose money if you decide to sell it, a better power supply, and higher bias current.  If you have that $20k to spend, get a DIY T2.


----------



## Dopaminer

earspeakers said:


> To anybody considering buying in Japan, don't forget you have to pay tax in that case, 10% IIRC, and it's going up shortly.


 
  
  
 Just to clarify :  Japan`s sales tax is 8%, but most prices you see include that tax.  There is a plan to raise the sales tax to 10% later this year but it looks like it won`t happen.  Anyway, the tax is so massively unpopular that most retailers are including it in the prices, rather than adding it at the register.  
  
 And there is no sales tax if you buy used.  
  
 For a new SR-009, to take the most mainstream option possible, here is the Yodobashi Camera page: 
  
 http://www.yodobashi.com/STAX-スタックス-SR-009-イヤースピーカー-静電型イヤースピーカー/pd/100000001001357319/
  
 You can see the price is 358,510 yen.  That includes the sales tax.  You an also see there is 35,851 yen written is smaller text under the price.  This is `Yodobashi Points` - these points are 1:1 yen, so you now have 35,000 yen to spend in the store on whatever - and Yodobashi Camera sells every thing you can think of that plugs in or takes batteries.  Often, you can negotiate an exchange of these points for a corresponding reduction in price.  In other words 358,510 - 35,851= 322,659yen.    
  
 Other, smaller sellers, to compete with Yodobashi, will usually set their prices to match the Price -minus - Points of Yodobashi, in other words 322,659yen.  These prices of course will not be advertised, which is why almost all the on-line prices you see will be very near to the initial 358,510 price of Yodobashi.  In reality, you never have to pay that much, because the smaller sellers know that everyone else knows the Yodobashi Points price.  So, the salesman will pull out his calculator and say, how about this price? - showing almost exactly the same price-minus-points of Yodobashi.    
  
Then there are the regular open-box deals, mystery `USED` but never actually used deals, etc at all the small audio-maniac shops in the electronics towns of Tokyo and Osaka. It`s easy to get primal, hunter-gatherer in these areas . . .     I would pay 300,000 for a brand new sealed SR-009 with factory warranty, but then again I have the time to keep foragging and grazing.  If you showed up for a 3 to 5 day hop, you could pick up an SR-009 for the above Yodobashi prices, or less.  
  
 Also, in case anyone is interested, any used shop will definitely allow you to demo anything before buying, and all of them offer a warranty.  If there is no warranty they label the item as `JUNK`.  I got my Beyer T5P in a `JUNK` bin, like new, because the 3.5mm plug was broken.  .   .


----------



## NotaLefty

What is the cheapest way for me to amplify a pair of Stax headphones? I was looking at a pair of 207 - 507 headphones, but don't want to purchase the amplifier with them. I have a Cambridge Audio Topaz AM10 speaker amplifier right now. I have read that you can use a transformer box, but I'm not exactly sure where to find that or if it'll work well (if at all). Could anyone point me in the right direction?


----------



## NoPants

the transformer boxes can be found on ebay, SRD6 or SRD7 I forget which is which. Cheapest solution, but still a stopgap


----------



## Rossliew

dopaminer said:


> Just to clarify :  Japan`s sales tax is 8%, but most prices you see include that tax.  There is a plan to raise the sales tax to 10% later this year but it looks like it won`t happen.  Anyway, the tax is so massively unpopular that most retailers are including it in the prices, rather than adding it at the register.
> 
> And there is no sales tax if you buy used.
> 
> ...


 
 Great advice there, D. Thanks ! Shall keep the above in mind should i, one day, make my way to Tokyo for a holiday or something. Having said that, do these electronics shops ship stuff out internationally? Or do they only entertain walk in sales?


----------



## bearFNF

notalefty said:


> What is the cheapest way for me to amplify a pair of Stax headphones? I was looking at a pair of 207 - 507 headphones, but don't want to purchase the amplifier with them. I have a Cambridge Audio Topaz AM10 speaker amplifier right now. I have read that you can use a transformer box, but I'm not exactly sure where to find that or if it'll work well (if at all). Could anyone point me in the right direction?


 
  
  


nopants said:


> the transformer boxes can be found on ebay, SRD6 or SRD7 I forget which is which. Cheapest solution, but still a stopgap


 
 Yep, energizers are cheap and a good starting point. Just make sure you get the Pro version for the earspeakers you listed.


----------



## NotaLefty

bearfnf said:


> Yep, energizers are cheap and a good starting point. Just make sure you get the Pro version for the earspeakers you listed.


 
 I'm not seeing anything on eBay. Which should I be looking for to pair with a 207, 307, or 407?


----------



## bearFNF

notalefty said:


> I'm not seeing anything on eBay. Which should I be looking for to pair with a 207, 307, or 407?



SRD7 Pro would do it.


----------



## Hun7er

Hi there,
  
 Does this SR007 is an MKI ?
 http://www.cjm-audio.de/kopfh%C3%B6rer/#cc-m-product-10129128012
 Serial is 72xxx
  
 Thanks


----------



## Michgelsen

Yes, that appears to be a SR-007BL, meaning the version of the Mk1 with black leather parts and cable. This is an advantage when you put on Mk2 pads, which are also black.


----------



## David1961

I received the SR-003mk2's yesterday which I got from PriceJapan, and although I'm using them with my BHSE / K-01, they are the best valued phones I've ever heard.
Like cucera mentioned about the 003's, the soundstage is smaller than the 009's, but for what they cost me I find the SQ is incredible.

I did get the 003's to mainly use when the weather gets hot in the UK ( which isn't that often ) because when listening to my 009's ( that I also got from PJ ) the ear-cups get warm after so long, but because I'm so impressed with the 003's I'm going to be listening to them all year round, and maybe as often as the 009's.

I listened to the 003's for several hours yesterday and after about an hour they did start to feel slightly uncomfortable to which I had a break, but when I listened to them again I didn't insert them as far into my ears and they were much better.

As I agree with cucera, the soundstage doesn't match the 009's, and I find there's less separation of instruments, but the detail and transparency is still very good and the SQ sounds like it's coming from the back of the head which for me is very enjoyable.

I tried the 003's with and without the headband and I prefer them without.

The amp and source I'm using are considered being high end audio equipment so I'm not sure how the 003's would sound with different equipment, but as I mention, I find they are definitely the best valued phones I've ever heard.


----------



## rx79ez08

bearfnf said:


> SRD7 Pro would do it.


 

 SRD7 Pro are quite hard to come by.
  
 If you really insist on transformer try a Woo Audio Wee. But you are probably much better off buying something like a SRM-252S, a second hand SRM-Xh or other low end Stax amp.


----------



## Tachikoma

rossliew said:


> I believe granting of the visa is not an issue. There's the hassle of proving your personal networth and a supporting letter from your current employer as part of the submission just to show them that you are financially able to support yourself whilst in Japan without the need to obtain employment there (usually illegally).
> 
> So, will you be heading to Japan soon?


 

 I would like to go to Japan in May, for the World Kendo Championship... if I finish my work in time. According to the Japanese embassy's website (http://www.my.emb-japan.go.jp/English/visit/visa25062013.html), we don't need to apply for anything in advance to go to Japan as long as we hold a biometric passport that conforms to ICAO standards, i.e. a new-ish passport.


----------



## Earspeakers

david1961 said:


> I received the SR-003mk2's yesterday which I got from PriceJapan, and although I'm using them with my BHSE / K-01, they are the best valued phones I've ever heard.
> Like cucera mentioned about the 003's, the soundstage is smaller than the 009's, but for what they cost me I find the SQ is incredible.


 
  
 That's an interesting option for me at work. Stax has spoiled me, dynamic cans just aren't the same. 
  
 Can you tell me, how isolating are they, can people around you hear them? Also do they go in the ear, or sit outside somewhat?


----------



## David1961

earspeakers said:


> david1961 said:
> 
> 
> > I received the SR-003mk2's yesterday which I got from PriceJapan, and although I'm using them with my BHSE / K-01, they are the best valued phones I've ever heard.
> ...




The 003's are open Earspeakers so there is no isolation, and I can hear the music from the side that doesn't fit in the ear, ( obviously when I don't have them in my ears ) so I'm sure someone else would be able to hear them while someone is listening to them.

They also fit in the ear canal, however in order to rest their ear tips on the end of the ear canal, the headband needs to be bent outwards.
I've tried that because I've no plans on using the headband, so if I'd have broken it I wouldn't have been bothered, but I didn't break it and found it's easy to bend back.

If you're after very good isolation, then IMO you need to look at a CIEM, although I have a CIEM and I find it has a closed SQ, whereas the SR-003mk2 has ( IMO ) an open SQ, which is another reason why I got one, just not as open as the 009's. ( IMO )


----------



## Earspeakers

david1961 said:


> If you're after very good isolation, then IMO you need to look at a CIEM, although I have a CIEM and I find it has a closed SQ, whereas the SR-003mk2 has ( IMO ) an open SQ, which is another reason why I got one, just not as open as the 009's. ( IMO )


 
  
 Thanks. I've got the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro which are isolating (both for them and me!) and they sound pretty OK,  but as I said the Stax sound (or lack of it) is addicting. Ideally I'd want a closed ear cup form of the 407's, I'm not a fan of in ear phones.


----------



## tg123

I am thinking about purchasing the SR-009, but I cannot find any information about the warranty. How long is Stax warranty?


----------



## negura

1 year.


----------



## Rossliew

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]





tachikoma said:


> I would like to go to Japan in May, for the World Kendo Championship... if I finish my work in time. According to the Japanese embassy's website (http://www.my.emb-japan.go.jp/English/visit/visa25062013.html), we don't need to apply for anything in advance to go to Japan as long as we hold a biometric passport that conforms to ICAO standards, i.e. a new-ish passport.




That's a new development. Shall have to check it out. Thanks for the info!


----------



## walakalulu

tg123 said:


> I am thinking about purchasing the SR-009, but I cannot find any information about the warranty. How long is Stax warranty?


 

 1 year BUT your UK statutory rights would be valid if they packed up within a reasonable time. I would say within 5 years given the price. Warranties aren't worth the paper they're written on.


----------



## VandyMan

Is the channel imbalance problem still a current issue?

 I imagine that a lot of 009 were sold in the USA this year when they were discounted in Nov/Dec by Stax USA. I know they had some in stock, but ended up back ordered. Mine arrived just before Christmas and still had that new leather smell. I've had no problems at all. That is just one experience, but I don't see any recent posts by anyone complaining about channel imbalance on new 009s. Maybe the problem has been solved?


----------



## astrostar59

vandyman said:


> Is the channel imbalance problem still a current issue?
> 
> I imagine that a lot of 009 were sold in the USA this year when they were discounted in Nov/Dec by Stax USA. I know they had some in stock, but ended up back ordered. Mine arrived just before Christmas and still had that new leather smell. I've had no problems at all. That is just one experience, but I don't see any recent posts by anyone complaining about channel imbalance on new 009s. Maybe the problem has been solved?


 
 IMO the problem was always a few cases. The cases that cropped up with buyers from dealers got sorted on the quiet. We hear on this forum more about the cases with grey imports as that cash be problematic to sort out. I know 5 users who have had the 009s for more than 3 years and are heavy users, with no issues. Mine are ok too after 6 months use. Buy from a dealer and you will be ok. The problem if it does crop up seems to happen in a week from new.


----------



## astrostar59

walakalulu said:


> 1 year BUT your UK statutory rights would be valid if they packed up within a reasonable time. I would say within 5 years given the price. Warranties aren't worth the paper they're written on.


 
 Wrong. The UK warranty is 24 months. I got a verbal promise from Synergy that they would honour 36 months. If there was an imbalance issue, it usually happens in a week from new. So as long as it works fine after say 4 weeks, should be good for years as long as you look after them. BTW it has to be used on a Stax amp only, so if you had to claim and you had a BHSE (for example) you would need to be quiet about that...


----------



## astrostar59

Hi David
 I am glad you are pleased with the new 003s. I fancy getting the 507s as a second set to use in the UK when I visit, along with my old Stax amp and my Metrum Octave DAC. Hooked up to a PowerBook Pro it is a small in house system.


----------



## David1961

earspeakers said:


> Thanks. I've got the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro which are isolating (both for them and me!) and they sound pretty OK,  but as I said the Stax sound (or lack of it) is addicting. Ideally I'd want a closed ear cup form of the 407's, I'm not a fan of in ear phones.




Stax did a closed Earspeaker called the 4070, but I believe they stopped making them.
I've also never heard them so I don't know what their isolation is like or SQ.


----------



## Rico613

astrostar59 said:


> vandyman said:
> 
> 
> > Is the channel imbalance problem still a current issue?
> ...


 
 I seem to recall when the channel imbalance first came up 3-4 years ago, that PJ said they would send headphones back to STAX if warranty repairs were needed.  I assume they would do the same thing for buyers to get out of warranty repairs done as well.


----------



## arnaud

astrostar59 said:


> Wrong. The UK warranty is 24 months. I got a verbal promise from Synergy that they would honour 36 months. If there was an imbalance issue, it usually happens in a week from new. So as long as it works fine after say 4 weeks, should be good for years as long as you look after them. BTW it has to be used on a Stax amp only, so if you had to claim and you had a BHSE (for example) you would need to be quiet about that...


 

  It is 12 months in Japan actually for the SR009. Interesting the Europe dealers managed to get this x 3.


----------



## cucera

arnaud said:


> It is 12 months in Japan actually for the SR009. Interesting the Europe dealers managed to get this x 3.




24 months is EU law.


----------



## arnaud

I guess I can make a small rant: customer is supposedly king in Japan however, the vendors are unbelievably protected:
 - No return policy, sales are final, defective products replaced under warranty no return (although amazon japan manages to work around this, I guess by selling open box after taking product back)
 - Typically 1 year warranty no more (for a headphone costing multiple thousands of dollar, that got to make one anxious a bit)
  
 arnaud


----------



## David1961

astrostar59 said:


> Hi David
> I am glad you are pleased with the new 003s. I fancy getting the 507s as a second set to use in the UK when I visit, along with my old Stax amp and my Metrum Octave DAC. Hooked up to a PowerBook Pro it is a small in house system.




As I've mentioned Julian, I mainly got the 003's to use when it gets hot in the UK, but because I'm so impressed I'll be using them all year round.
I'm using them with my BHSE so I don't know how they'd sound with a Stax amp, but with you having a KGSSHV ( which imo is an excellent amp ) and living in Spain, it would be a very good idea for you to try them out with your KGSSHV.


----------



## AnakChan

arnaud said:


> I guess I can make a small rant: customer is supposedly king in Japan however, the vendors are unbelievably protected:
> - No return policy, sales are final, defective products replaced under warranty no return (although amazon japan manages to work around this, I guess by selling open box after taking product back)
> - Typically 1 year warranty no more (for a headphone costing multiple thousands of dollar, that got to make one anxious a bit)
> 
> arnaud


 
  
 Small?? Small? That's one of my biggest pet peeve living here in Japan! There is also no "try before you buy". One clarification about return though, some shops do allow you to return assuming you've not opened it up (i.e. still shrink wrapped) and return was done within a week but they do a lot of questioning before accepting the returns (e.g. did the sales guy gave incorrect information that eventually lead to the sale).


----------



## astrostar59

arnaud said:


> It is 12 months in Japan actually for the SR009. Interesting the Europe dealers managed to get this x 3.


 
 All electrical goods beyond a certain value in the EU have to have 24 months warranty. The UK was 12 months, but had to abide by EU regulation.


----------



## edstrelow

I think that  the isolation effects of the 003 are underated.  I have used the 003 for years in bed while my wife sleeps and never a complaint, so they don' t blast that much sound.  Also I take the portable rig to the beach and don t find the surf noise a problem. However they do not keep out the noise sufficiently when I travel by plane.  
  
 You might want to.look into my simple damping mod for these phones that I have reported in another thread.  A bit of 1 mm sorbothane makes these phones a good deal better.
  
  
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/damping-stax-phones-with-sorbothane-lambdas-srxiii-pro-and-sr003


----------



## headinclouds

Just for your interest my second build of KGST with blue lighting.
 If anyone wants to try building one I have posted some parts for sale.
  
 BTW the KGST sounds great with Stax 007 particularly Mk1, and fantastic with 009.


----------



## Michgelsen

Thanks for sharing! Lovely work, again.


----------



## Rossliew

That's beautiful work, @headinclouds ! I can also say the KGST works very well with the 007 Mk II


----------



## HemiSam

headinclouds said:


> Just for your interest my second build of KGST with blue lighting.
> If anyone wants to try building one I have posted some parts for sale.
> 
> BTW the KGST sounds great with Stax 007 particularly Mk1, and fantastic with 009.


 
  
 Beautiful!
  
  





  
 HS


----------



## headinclouds

rossliew said:


> That's beautiful work, @headinclouds ! I can also say the KGST works very well with the 007 Mk II


 

 You're absolutely right.  I haven't listened to the MkII for a week as have been so busy since I was loaned a -009. The MkII are also a great experience.  OK different flavours but all good.


----------



## Sleepow

headinclouds said:


> Just for your interest my second build of KGST with blue lighting.
> If anyone wants to try building one I have posted some parts for sale.
> 
> BTW the KGST sounds great with Stax 007 particularly Mk1, and fantastic with 009.




Beautiful; .... If only I could have one to make use of what is for now just an expensive piece of home decoration, my SR-009


----------



## Sleepow

sleepow said:


> Beautiful; .... If only I could have one to make use of what is for now just an expensive piece of home decoration, my SR-009




Ok, no pressure headinclouds; in know mine is going to be on your work bench in a few weeks...
Took 6 months to pull the trigger, I can wait a couple more.


----------



## paradoxper

headinclouds said:


> Just for your interest my second build of KGST with blue lighting.
> If anyone wants to try building one I have posted some parts for sale.
> 
> BTW the KGST sounds great with Stax 007 particularly Mk1, and fantastic with 009.


 
 Beautiful work as always, Geoff.


----------



## Jbmorrey

I recently purchased a Stax SR-34 setup and hooked it up to my Receiver at home, The sound is very muffled, like the mids are taking over all of the sound. I am thinking the culprit is the fact that I do not think I have a great amplifier, my setup it a Technics SU-V4 I have all of the specs, just not sure what counts. it reads 20hz-20khz 2x60W @ 4 ohms   2x65W @ 8 Ohms 0.02THD  . I know these headphones must sound better than this, what do I need to look for in my amp, or is there some more info you need to determine if it's my amp causing the issue?
  
 Thanks
  
 James


----------



## edstrelow

I would check the Stax with another amp to see if the problem is really with the amp. If the Stax still sound off then there is an issue with them. Are these the electret model, because if so the bias on the diaphragms could have gone off. I have seen some discussion of this but don' t recall what the solution may be.


----------



## Jbmorrey

thanks, I have a home stereo system, a Harmon Kardon 5.1 modern receiver that I will hook them up to.

James


----------



## Earspeakers

FYI cross post, I'm looking at doing a KGST PCB group buy, if interested post here
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/753825/kgst-pcb-group-buy-interest-check


----------



## icebear

You don't wanna get yourself in trouble do you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/a/group-buys


----------



## Earspeakers

icebear said:


> You don't wanna get yourself in trouble do you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Apparently not ...
  
 On a different topic I wear eyeglasses and the most comfortable headphone pads I've used are the Beyerdynamic style. Soft, plush pads that softly mold over the eyeglass stems and are comfortable for long periods of time. Has anybody tried a variation like this with Stax, is it possible? Any thoughts on how it might (if it does) alter the sound?


----------



## Advert

Hi guys.

How are you guys saving you stax?

I live in Indonesia, country with high humidity
I always save my 007mk2 into the original box (carrying case) and put few silica gel inside

Is it safe enough?



Thank you


----------



## zolkis

I have joined the club of SR-009 + SR-007 Mk1 owners.
  
 Guess what, I tried to improve the 009...
 You may remember that I use custom pads with the 007 Mk1's, using a 009 ear pad and some custom stuffing.
 The standard 009 and 007 earpad stuffing is made of normal foam, plus a 3 mm thick base, from a denser, rubbery foam.
 I have figured out 2 optimum configurations for the 007:
  
*Pad1*. full carbon foam pads, 105/73 mm diameters, about 15mm high in the back and about 10 mm high in the front
 Origin: 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B007NYQDMK/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AV0WDM2FFQCUE
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005AK9FQ0/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AV0WDM2FFQCUE
  
*Pad2*. wool felt ring replacing the 3mm thick base foam ring. That means I have separated the base from the foam part with the help of a sharp cutter and a lot of care. I have tried many kinds of felt, and this one sounded the best:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/127274609/3mm-100-merino-wool-felt-7-x-11-20x30cm?ref=shop_home_active_1
 (note the colour, other colours sounded more muffled, this was quite clear).
  
 Since I anyway had the modded 009 ear pads, I tried Pad1 on the 009. Not much change, I actually I preferred the original ones.
 Then I tried Pad2, and behold, the 009 has transformed:
 - much deeper bass with great clarity and slam
 - larger and better sound stage
 - no noticeable treble "haze", highs sounded very clear this time.
 If you thought the 009 is lacking some bass, now it has it in spades, with excellent control and resolution.
 I also have a Fostex TH900 - which I very successfully modded to sound way much better than the stock one - and actually the modded 009 gets quite close to the slam, without the slight overhang. Not bad from a 'stat, huh?
  
 I figured out the 007 and 009 pad optima are different. It was the turn for the 007. I ended up with:
*Pad3*. 3mm wool felt ring base and a carbon foam pad 3 mm thinner  than in Pad1.
  
 That worked like a charm. Now the 007 sounded very close to the 009, embarrassingly close, with the following differences:
 - more bass slam, about the same extension, but the 009 has a bit better mid-bass and better bass control; however, with instruments, the 007 sounded better in the bass
 - more euphonic midrange, some people would prefer it over the 009, some would not
 - slightly better defined treble, with cymbals having more attack and decay, the 009 was somehow flatter, but feels more airy and extended
 - sound stage is deeper, a tiny bit wider, but less high; also, a tiny bit less focused; however, quite minor difference. Depending on different music I preferred the sound stage of one or the other, but more times the 007.
  
 My personal subjective ranking is the following:
stock 007 Mk1 << stock 009 <= 007 + Pad1 << 009 + Pad2 <= 007 + Pad3. 
 Details:
 - the stock 007 Mk1 sounds rather dark (but not Audeze-dark) compared to the rest, and there is a rather big quality difference to the stock 009
 - the stock 009 sounded more open, but sometimes a bit artificial in comparison; there was some musicality in the 007 sound that went dry with the 009;
 - the 007 with Pad1 (the carbon foam pad) was a bit more musical/euphonic than the 009, and sounded more natural with string instruments and percussion, but wind instruments were somewhat more preferable with the 009
 (a big jump here)
 - the modified 009 with Pad2 was so much better then the stock 009 (I played them many times back and forth), there is no way back
 - the modified 007 with Pad3 again sounded a bit more musical, in the way described above, but this is matter of taste. I am sure many people would prefer the 009 + Pad2, which is also easier to drive, and about 3 dB's (a lot) louder, which makes comparisons very difficult. I tried to tell if the modded 009 is also more resolving (in bass, mids and highs), but I concluded they are pretty much similar in resolution. Perhaps I could give the nod to the 009, but mainly out of politeness. Because the more perceived "air", many people would prefer the modded 009.
  
 Just for fun, I tried using a parametric equalizer to see if I could "simulate" the sound of one with the other.
 The 009+Pad2 sounded like the 007+Pad3 if I bumped +3 dB at 30 Hz, and notched down -3dB at 16 kHz.
 The 007 needed a small bump of 2 dB at 8 kHz and 3-4 dB at 16 kHz to sound like the modded 009, but with better bass slam and more velvety mids.
  
 An important *note* here.
 The sound quality of the 007 is so much dependent on the shape and fitting of the head band, that it's nearly impossible to get consistent results from people to people. What works for me, doesn't necessarily work for others: it depends on head shape, ear shape etc. The sound described here was obtained with 007 head bands adjusted wide/flat and turning in like the 009 headband does. Moreover, I didn't use the circular spring for the 009 earpad mounted on the 007. 
 Removing and assembling the 009 pads on the 007 takes only seconds. By rotating the pads on the 007, the sound changes. I use the front part turned upwards a bit (about 10 degrees), this provides the most open sound and best sound stage.
 The best ear pads for the 007 are a bit more shallow than the stock pads, so it won't fit everyone.
 There are none of these problems with the 009, they are consistent sounding and more comfortable. 
  
*Note #2*. If you have never taken off a 009 ear pad, don't try it yourself unless you know what you are doing. I will post pictures later, but it goes like this: 
 1. remove the inner dust grill through the ear pad opening (by gently bending inwards and pulling out)
 2. by pushing the ear cushions aside with a precision Phillips screwdriver, gently open 4 turns on each of the 6 screws, going round and in diagonal like with car wheel change
 3. pull the internal metal ring outwards a bit, and gently take off the pad.
 Assembly is in reverse order. 
  
*Note #3*. All of these pads sound quite flat with a frequency sweep, but I cannot do proper measurements. To my ears it's very clear which sound better, but I oubt the waterfall would measure fundamentally different.
  
 Since the modded 009 are still more neutral, more comfortable, and easier to adjust, they are likely the better choice to keep.
 Also, the 009 mod is very straightforward, and will give consistent results, whereas the 007 can be set in so many ways that it's easy to get it suboptimal.
 However, it is absolutely worth doing it.
 The mod *steps*:
 1. Order a replacement 009 ear pad from Stax e.g. through your local Stax dealer. That costs 140 euros, quite steep.
 2. Meanwhile order the wool felt, it's cheap. The colour matters . 
 3. Take the stuffing out of the replacement 009 ear pads. Then, cutting off the foam base is quite easy. Start from outside, with a small, precise cut, gently pull apart, get deeper, then through the whole width, then advance slowly around the perimeter. 
 4. Cut 2 felt rings of 105 mm external, and 73 mm internal diameter, using an Olfa circular cutter or similar. This is a size optimum for both the 007 and 009 for the given felt type. I have tried a lot of other sizes, including the elliptical original form.
 5. Put the foam ring from step 3 and the felt rings from step 4 together, and assemble into the ear pads. Take care of orientation of the thinner part to the front. The felt ring comes to bottom and the foam is closer to the ear.
 6. Mount the ear pads, or if you just want to test, it is enough to hold it on the headphones without mounting them (sounds the same and saves from a lot of hassle, especially with the 009).
  
 For the 007, in step2 order also the carbon foam, and in step3 cut a similar size ring: 105/73, then trim it by a slant plane thinning towards front, about 10 mm high in the back and 7 mm in the front. It has to be thin enough, otherwise will sound more muffled and dark.
 As a last step, for the 007 only: adjust the head band and ear pad orientation.
  
 My wife solved the issue by liking the modded 007 more, perhaps sound-wise too, but mainly because of the price .
 I have preferred the modded 007 almost every time, but that's telling about my taste, not necessarily the sound quality. Also, it is a very personal headphone, adjusted to my own head...
 Since I am primarily a speaker guy, I will be content with the modded 007 Mk1 (and modded TH900), hopefully for a long time.
 I have a prospective local buyer for the 009 with either stock or modded ear pads, but if it doesn't go through, one of you may get world's allegedly best 009 soon .
 I will repeat the whole experiment with an incoming BHSE, in a couple of weeks.
  
 I am thinking about making a separate thread about modding ear pads for different headphones, so far the 007, 009, TH900. They make a lot of difference. Now I wonder what could I make of an LCD-3, since they seem to have the darkest and worst sounding ear pads, but that's another story... The best stock pads I've seen on a headphone are with the HD800 and to somewhat lesser extent the K812. I wouldn't even try improving those.  Anyway the modded Stax sound way much better (IMHO and YMMV .


----------



## NoPants

I inserted foam between the cloth mesh cover and the leather pads of the 009, seems to help with some of its shortcomings.


----------



## edstrelow

zolkis said:


> I have joined the club of SR-009 + SR-007 Mk1 owners.
> 
> Guess what, I tried to improve the 009...
> You may remember that I use custom pads with the 007 Mk1's, using a 009 ear pad and some custom stuffing.
> ...


 
 Some photos of what you were doing would be helpfull. I am heavily into modding Staxen myself, although mostly using  sorbothane damping material. I noted quite some time back that the metal headband arcs on the 007 ring. I recommend damping the arcs one way or another.


----------



## astrostar59

lots of work in this sybject. My opinion is the 009s excel with a great front end, otherwise the jump from the 007s is reduced. IMO the 007s are more forgiving of the source, so see the dilema. I found the 009s beat the 007s in all areas, bo contest.


----------



## georgep

You mean 007mk2.5, just for clarity.


----------



## edstrelow

Those of us who are electrostatic enthusiasts are  used to thinking that the nature of the driver is the only significant determinant of the sound quality of headphones.  And Stax has encouraged this, touting the thinness of new diaphragms, new stator designs and the like.
  
  However I believe that there are other factors, less well understood in headphone design, that may be playing as big a role in sound quality. Based on my observations of how even small amounts of sorbothane on an earcup can create  audible improvements, I think there is a lot of mechanical energy travelling around earcups in many if not all headphones which is not dissipating effectively and is causing coloration. As I have argued before we can't do the sort of things we do with speakers to get rid of these resonances i.e. make the phones rigid, heavy, mount them on spikes and the like. So headphones have an inherent problem in this regard compared to speakers. Of course they have their own advantages too.
  
 Headphone designers have relied on the earpads  to dampen the mechanical  energy.   And as Zolkis has found out, you can improve on existing designs,  Actually I think he and I are doing much the same thing,  adding damping materials such as foam, felt and in my case sorbothane.  We are also.adding some mass to the cups. If I recall my physics correctly, you cannot actually destroy energy but you can transform it and the according to the sorbothane website, their product converts it to heat,  
  
 Years ago, Koss used liquid filled earpads on their early stats (Esp 6 and Esp 9)   This insured a good seal and I suspect their liquid had better damping properties than foam.  Unfortunately these pads always puffed up after a year or so and Koss gave up on them.


----------



## cucera

edstrelow said:


> Those of us who are electrostatic enthusiasts are  used to thinking that the nature of the driver is the only significant determinant of the sound quality of headphones.  And Stax has encouraged this, touting the thinness of new diaphragms, new stator designs and the like.
> 
> However I believe that there are other factors, less well understood in headphone design, that may be playing as big a role in sound quality.




I agree 100%. Take for example the 009, its strength is not the Driver, but the stiffer frame and most important the pads. 

Spritzer says the same, it is not the driver that makes a headphone superiour. He once transplanted a lowly 303 driver in an Orpheus frame and prefered it to the original uber Headphones.


----------



## Earspeakers

cucera said:


> I agree 100%. Take for example the 009, its strength is not the Driver, but the stiffer frame and most important the pads.
> 
> Spritzer says the same, it is not the driver that makes a headphone superiour. He once transplanted a lowly 303 driver in an Orpheus frame and prefered it to the original uber Headphones.


 

 Not surprised. Frequently in engineering it becomes difficult to differentiate for a product line with the technologies used. For example, it is very likely more expensive to offer the old films in the drivers of the lower end Stax cans than to have the same across the whole line. In addition to getting cheaper base costs, they might not be able to get the old films, and they might have other undesirable issues such as higher failure rates and such. So they offer essentially the same driver technology across the line and differentiate on fit, finish and end design. Sounds like a typical product line.
  
 I'm quite happy with my 307's/323s frankly, so why would I upgrade to a BHSE/009? Why not, it'll be marginally better, but I'm not expecting vast changes.


----------



## arnaud

Earpad is critical indeed but it's only one part of the equation. I certainly do not believe all the difference between the 007 and 009 is coming from the pad exclusively. The enclosure differs, the drivers size differs, the stators differ, the membrane material differs, the DS gap differs. Most of all, one is miles more resolving (007 treble is a 10kHz peak, 009 is more even there and doesn't rely on one resonance to resolve treble). Sounstage layering is so much more precise on the 009, a pad can't possibly be the only factor for this.

I am not saying pad doesn't matter, far from it. Heck, I even showed the hughe influence of pad design on stat phone tonal balance some time back in the diy thread. i also think zolkis work is fantastic / really worth exploring to fine tune the phone to ones taste. 

The distance from the driver to the ear, the orientation, the amount of leakage through the pad, the volume of the earpad cavity, all these parameters have a huge influence on any headphone response, and stat phones in particular as they very much rely on this loading effect (more so than typical massive ortho or dynamic phones driver).
But saying all the 009 innovation lies in the pad is silly.

Arnaud


----------



## georgep

Arnaud, which 007 are you referring to with respect to the treble peak?


----------



## zolkis

arnaud said:


> Earpad is critical indeed but it's only one part of the equation. I certainly do not believe all the difference between the 007 and 009 is coming from the pad exclusively. The enclosure differs, the drivers size differs, the stators differ, the membrane material differs, the DS gap differs. Most of all, one is miles more resolving (007 treble is a 10kHz peak, 009 is more even there and doesn't rely on one resonance to resolve treble). Sounstage layering is so much more precise on the 009, a pad can't possibly be the only factor for this.
> 
> I am not saying pad doesn't matter, far from it. Heck, I even showed the hughe influence of pad design on stat phone tonal balance some time back in the diy thread. i also think zolkis work is fantastic / really worth exploring to fine tune the phone to ones taste.
> 
> The distance from the driver to the ear, the orientation, the amount of leakage through the pad, the volume of the earpad cavity, all these parameters have a huge influence on any headphone response, and stat phones in particular as they very much rely on this loading effect (more so than typical massive ortho or dynamic phones driver).


 
  
 These are indeed valid factors. The 009 has better technology for sure. The increased efficiency alone may be enough reason to prefer it. Also, I noticed that the 009 is far less sensitive to ear pad changes than the 007 Mk1. And it's easier to adjust to head, and more comfortable. And the sound is more neutral (the modded 007 Mk1 is still warmer and more euphonic).
  
 I think it is safer to say that it was the 007 Mk1 which was held back because the ear pad. Even with the stock 009 earpads it sounds much more open, but then the small change in stuffing elevated it to a new level. It became more open for sure. The felt ring helped the treble, midrange and bass resolution. The sound stage layering IMO is on par with the modded 009 and better than the stock 009. The 009 has all the reasons to sound better, and perhaps it needs a more educated ear and precise measurements to tell which is objectively better. However, based on my auditive perception and a wide range of music I listen to, both the 009 and 007 Mk1 sound much better now, and are on about the same level of "enjoyability". Yes, there are small differences here or there, mainly coming from the different optimal stuffing, and in rest, to smaller extent, from structural differences. And when it comes to the subjective terms of musicality, I slightly prefer the modded 007 Mk1 overall, albeit I like many things with the 009 more. I am sure there would be people to keep both, but I am fine with the modded 007 Mk1.
  
 Please note that I said that I have found the stock 007 Mk1 quite much inferior to the 009. But then the modded 009 is much better in my opinion than the stock one, especially in the bass (extension, resolution, resonance), in the deeper sound stage and in the clarity of tones.
  
 I would advise adventurous 009 owners to try my mod, it will cost them about 5-6 euros for the wool felt pad, 15 euros for the Olfa circular cutter, and 10-30 minutes of work. It's hard for me to imagine someone won't like the results more than the original, but in that case the mod can be reversed. There is no better test than verifying the claims by independent parties.
  
 For 007 Mk1 owners the situation is more complex, since a replacement 009 pad is needed, and even small changes in the carbon foam part have audible effects. I will start a thread with steps, exact dimensions, and pictures.


----------



## zolkis

nopants said:


> I inserted foam between the cloth mesh cover and the leather pads of the 009, seems to help with some of its shortcomings.


 
  
 I imagine that improved the bass impact and made the sound slightly more distant, to an extent which depends very much on the material and thickness of the foam you have used.


----------



## edstrelow

Could you post a link to the diy thread about pad modifications? I am having trouble finding it.


----------



## Jones Bob

Where to get Stax SR-009 replacement earpads? PriceJapan says they are not available in Japan, the owner must send in his earspeaker to Stax to get them fitted.


----------



## zolkis

edstrelow said:


> Could you post a link to the diy thread about pad modifications? I am having trouble finding it.


 
  
 Sorry, I meant that I would create the thread. Now this is done, so we could move the earpad mods discussion here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/754839/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods


----------



## zolkis

jones bob said:


> Where to get Stax SR-009 replacement earpads? PriceJapan says they are not available in Japan, the owner must send in his earspeaker to Stax to get them fitted.


 
  
 I ordered them through my local Stax dealer/importer. There is no other source that I've found, but none other is needed, really.


----------



## edstrelow

At one time the local US Stax distributer, Yamasinc, was refusing to sell parts for gray market phones.


----------



## arnaud

georgep said:


> Arnaud, which 007 are you referring to with respect to the treble peak?


 

 The mk2.5 I had previously was pretty obvious but my current mk1 (early series so one of the more even / tonally warm versions) also has it in milder proportion but still easy to spot when switching to / from the SR009. It's at ~10kHz so it just comes as a bit more sizzle, nothing hissy or shouty, but it does sound a tiny bit "fake" to me (all is relative, for a stat I mean  ) coming from the 009. If the 007mk1 did not have this 10k peak, it would sound totally muffled and even more closed in like ... an old LCD2. 
  
 Also, mind you I am driving my O2 with underpowered amp, the treble response will hopefully improve with the upcoming BHSE.
  
  
 arnaud


----------



## edstrelow

arnaud said:


> Earpad is critical indeed but it's only one part of the equation. I certainly do not believe all the difference between the 007 and 009 is coming from the pad exclusively. The enclosure differs, the drivers size differs, the stators differ, the membrane material differs, the DS gap differs. Most of all, one is miles more resolving (007 treble is a 10kHz peak, 009 is more even there and doesn't rely on one resonance to resolve treble). Sounstage layering is so much more precise on the 009, a pad can't possibly be the only factor for this.
> 
> I am not saying pad doesn't matter, far from it. Heck, I even showed the hughe influence of pad design on stat phone tonal balance some time back in the diy thread. i also think zolkis work is fantastic / really worth exploring to fine tune the phone to ones taste.
> 
> ...


 
 Can you also give us a link to this earlier post?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Stax prices on used market are inflating dangerously...what is it all about ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## HPiper

ali-pacha said:


> Stax prices on used market are inflating dangerously...what is it all about ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I noticed the same thing, just in the last 4 to 6 months the prices are half again higher than they were. Did the whole world suddenly get interested in Stax gear.


----------



## arnaud

edstrelow said:


> Could you post a link to the diy thread about pad modifications? I am having trouble finding it.


 

 Took some effort to dig this up: http://www.head-fi.org/t/498292/my-diy-electrostatic-headphones/585#post_8738868
  
 cheers,
 arnaud


----------



## JustinBieber

So, just how stupid would it be to get an SR-009 and then run it off an energizer or cheaper Stax amp (SRM-1 MK2, SRM-252S)?  I'm about 3/4 done saving for a used pair and honestly I can't spare enough for BHSE/KGSSHV, ever. An energizer or older amp would probably be used until I get something better like an SRM-323. 
  
 I searched and haven't found anyone who has done this. I actually did try the cheapo 252S with an 009 a long time ago and it wasn't too bad, just not loud enough (wasn't on my source so maybe that was the issue).


----------



## JustinBieber

ali-pacha said:


> Stax prices on used market are inflating dangerously...what is it all about ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yup.... not even a year ago I got an SRM-313 for less than $300, now they are going for ~400-$450.


----------



## edstrelow

arnaud said:


> Took some effort to dig this up: http://www.head-fi.org/t/498292/my-diy-electrostatic-headphones/585#post_8738868
> 
> cheers,
> arnaud


 
 Thanks. Am I correct that this is all simulations rather than actual measurements?


----------



## arnaud

edstrelow said:


> Thanks. Am I correct that this is all simulations rather than actual measurements?




That's correct, feel free to ignore, I might have no idea what I am talking about


----------



## gilency

Thats funny; I think you are actually one of the few around here who really really know what they are talking about.


----------



## Michgelsen

justinbieber said:


> So, just how stupid would it be to get an SR-009 and then run it off an energizer or cheaper Stax amp (SRM-1 MK2, SRM-252S)?  I'm about 3/4 done saving for a used pair and honestly I can't spare enough for BHSE/KGSSHV, ever. An energizer or older amp would probably be used until I get something better like an SRM-323.
> 
> I searched and haven't found anyone who has done this. I actually did try the cheapo 252S with an 009 a long time ago and it wasn't too bad, just not loud enough (wasn't on my source so maybe that was the issue).


 
  
 It's better than nothing, so go for it. And, the headphones are by far the most decisive factor for overall sound quality of your system, compared to amp or source.


----------



## David1961

michgelsen said:


> justinbieber said:
> 
> 
> > So, just how stupid would it be to get an SR-009 and then run it off an energizer or cheaper Stax amp (SRM-1 MK2, SRM-252S)?  I'm about 3/4 done saving for a used pair and honestly I can't spare enough for BHSE/KGSSHV, ever. An energizer or older amp would probably be used until I get something better like an SRM-323.
> ...




I disagree, I believe source comes first, then amp, and then headphones.

I'm fortunate enough to have the 009's and BHSE, and I got the SR-003mk2 about three weeks ago to use with my BHSE.
 I mainly got the 003's to use when it gets hot in the UK, but because they sound so good driven by the BHSE I'm going to be using them as much as the 009's.
The SQ from 003's isn't as open as the 009's while driven by the BHSE, but to me the 003's still sound pretty amazing.
I've also heard my 009's with two Stax amps ( SRM-007t and 717 ) and if I had to choose between either the 003mk2/BHSE or 009/ Stax amps mentioned, then without doubt I'd choose the 003/BHSE.


----------



## n3rdling

Headphones make by far the biggest difference, I don't even see how that's a debate.  The measurements show huge differences as well.  Give me a SR-009 with a cheap Stax amp and a soundcard over the most expensive source with ibuds any day.
  
 JustinBieber, check out the old SRM-1 and SRM-T1 amps.  They're vintage amps that will serve you well with the 009s and shouldn't be too expensive.


----------



## Sorrodje

n3rdling said:


> out the old SRM-1 and SRM-T1 amps.  They're vintage amps that will serve you well with the 009s and shouldn't be too expensive.


 
  
 That's a good thing to know. Do you Think my old SRM1 would serve well for a 007 mkII too ?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

n3rdling said:


> Headphones make by far the biggest difference, I don't even see how that's a debate.  The measurements show huge differences as well.  Give me a SR-009 with a cheap Stax amp and a soundcard over the most expensive source with ibuds any day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

How true.

Ali


----------



## Lan647

n3rdling said:


> Headphones make by far the biggest difference, I don't even see how that's a debate.




Agreed.


----------



## wink

Some would debate anything.


----------



## n3rdling

sorrodje said:


> That's a good thing to know. Do you Think my old SRM1 would serve well for a 007 mkII too ?


 
 The 007 is more picky about amping than the 009, so the bass might be a bit loose but try it out and see what you think.  It should do an OK job.


----------



## Sorrodje

Thks n3rdling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .


----------



## astrostar59

michgelsen said:


> It's better than nothing, so go for it. And, the headphones are by far the most decisive factor for overall sound quality of your system, compared to amp or source.


 
 I don't agree wit that. You can put a remarkably good headphone like the 009 on the end of a remarkably weak front end, and what do you get? You get a microscope to what is wrong with your front end - edgy treble, flabby bass, flat dynamics and soundstage i.e remarkably poor and irritating sound.
  
 It is about system synergy. You need to get roughly equal parts in the chain to have a balanced system that doesn't irritate in long listening sessions. Otherwise, you will not use it, and it will gather dust. The 507s hide some failures upstream, as do the 007s in the treble region (not the bass as those headphones need lots of juice from a decent amp).
  
 I would say yes, buy the 009s, but be aware you will quickly be saving up for a better amp and smoother DAC. As long as that is the long term plan, fine.
  
 Dig around this forum, ask 009 users. Look at the profiles of 009 users. It is no mistake that most have a BHSE, KGSShv or similar amps, and good front ends....


----------



## pataburd

I agree with astrostar59.  Overall synergy from the front end all the way to the headphones is what matters in the end, and this is particularly telling when you have highend gear on either end of the chain.


----------



## realmassy

I'm using a 252 when I don't want to turn on my main tube amp and it drives my 009 just fine. I connect the 252 to the RCA output of my Hex and there are obvious differences but the 009 is very enjoyable anyway.


----------



## scottiebabie

does anyone have an idea if the 404LE pads will fit the 407? thanks


----------



## John Buchanan

scottiebabie said:


> does anyone have an idea if the 404LE pads will fit the 407? thanks


 

 Yes they will


----------



## negura

justinbieber said:


> So, just how stupid would it be to get an SR-009 and then run it off an energizer or cheaper Stax amp (SRM-1 MK2, SRM-252S)?  I'm about 3/4 done saving for a used pair and honestly I can't spare enough for BHSE/KGSSHV, ever. An energizer or older amp would probably be used until I get something better like an SRM-323.
> 
> I searched and haven't found anyone who has done this. I actually did try the cheapo 252S with an 009 a long time ago and it wasn't too bad, just not loud enough (wasn't on my source so maybe that was the issue).


 
  
 A very good moderate power speaker amp with something like a Woo Wee is actually in my experience a very respectable solution with high-end Stax headphones. Yes, I would always prefer my KGSSHV, but value for money and audio rarely go hand in hand.


----------



## Downrange

Or you could get an SRM-007tII, like I did, even with the U.S. voltages, and warranty.  Seriously, I've never understood the prejudice evinced by so many for this truly decent tube amp - Stax's flagship.  I had this and an early KGSS, ran them side-by-side, and sold the KGSS.  Yes.  Still running the Stax amp.
  
 Something about the midrange of these amazing Omega II's.
  
 Or, sure get the 009s, and enjoy with whatever you want to drive them.


----------



## scottiebabie

john buchanan said:


> Yes they will


 
  
 thanks for answer. im looking forward to my 1st foray with stax


----------



## JustinBieber

Thanks for the help and feedback everyone. I really appreciate it. 
  
 @Michgelsen I agree the driver makes the most difference. That's what I've experienced with planars and dynamics. Just wondering if it's much more crucial with stats as I have little experience with them. 
  
 @realmassy That's good to know. Guess it was just a source issue, wasn't on my laptop. 
  
 @n3rdling I forgot the SRM-T1 even existed, looks to be fairly priced too. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## David1961

I stand by what I think, that in a headphone system, ( or speaker ) the most important audio piece is the source, followed by the amp, with headphones / speakers last, after all headphones only reproduce what the amp gives, same with the amp from the source.


----------



## Lan647

astrostar59 said:


> I don't agree wit that. You can put a remarkably good headphone like the 009 on the end of a remarkably weak front end, and what do you get? You get a microscope to what is wrong with your front end - edgy treble, flabby bass, flat dynamics and soundstage i.e remarkably poor and irritating sound.
> 
> It is about system synergy. You need to get roughly equal parts in the chain to have a balanced system that doesn't irritate in long listening sessions. Otherwise, you will not use it, and it will gather dust. The 507s hide some failures upstream, as do the 007s in the treble region (not the bass as those headphones need lots of juice from a decent amp).
> 
> ...


 

 The thing is though, you'd have to make some pretty buying poor decisions if you end up with a system _that_ poor. While your point is sound, I really think you are blowing things up quite a bit just to prove it.


----------



## astrostar59

I was responding to the guy who wanted an opinion on using a Stax SRM-212 with err the 3,500 US 009 headphone. To me this is just plain bonkers. Now if you think that is a balanced system good luck...
  
 I get fed up with folk who try to blow out any advice and bang on about this subject. Lets just go out and buy a Ferrari then put Onyo skiing tyres on it - good luck with that as well.


----------



## negura

Talking low money for Stax, I was actually quite pleased with the Woo Wee as long as the speaker amp behind it was good quality. It was no KGSSHV, but better than some would make of it, if reading these forums. That is assuming some folks would have a good speaker amp around, which is not unlikely.


----------



## scottiebabie

astrostar59 said:


> You can put a remarkably good headphone like the 009 on the end of a remarkably weak front end, and what do you get? You get a microscope to what is wrong with your front end - edgy treble, flabby bass, flat dynamics and soundstage i.e remarkably poor and irritating sound.


 
  
 being a proponent of the GIGO theory, i cant argue with a having a great front end to compliment a great transducer.
  
 that said, i read somewhere (forgot where & whom but its a pretty well known guy in the audio industry) that he recommends starting with the speaker u want & then build a system around it. i have to admit there's something to that as i havent heard a really bad (modern) dac but i have heard some really really bad speakers/headphones.
  
 to my ears, a better transducer is one of the best (if not the best) bang for dollar upgrade.


----------



## FrankCooter

Every link of the chain is important, but if you have to prioritize, it should be 1st transducer, 2nd source, 3rd amp, and 4th peripherals.
  
 I have some borrowed 009's in-house. Eventually they will be mated to a tube amp of my own design. Right now they are paired with a Stax 323s and a Metrum Octave. Sounds more than decent. The DAC and the amp were both purchased used (but in essentially new condition) in the "classifieds" for about  $1k total. I'll loose very little money when I resell them.


----------



## georgep

This.


----------



## Sleepow

I think people also need to distinguish quality from price.
A bad source cannot sound good, or will even sound worse, on a good amp and headphones, but a decent source can nowadays be had for not that much money. Cost of quality digital products has deceased at a much much faster pace that cost of quality electrical products.

Years ago it was often said that you need to spend an equal amount on each link. If we make the assumption that this was true, purely based on technological advancements, one would now conclude that money should be spent on amp > transducer > source.

Of course the initial assumption is probably wrong, and as I am now buying a new system, I am doing exactly the opposite....


----------



## NoPants

frankcooter said:


> Every link of the chain is important, but if you have to prioritize, it should be 1st transducer, 2nd source, 3rd amp, and 4th peripherals.
> 
> I have some borrowed 009's in-house. Eventually they will be mated to a tube amp of my own design. Right now they are paired with a Stax 323s and a Metrum Octave. Sounds more than decent. The DAC and the amp were both purchased used (but in essentially new condition) in the "classifieds" for about  $1k total. I'll loose very little money when I resell them.


 
  
 What are your initial thoughts Frank? I've spent a lot more time with the 009s recently and I can't help but feel that something is missing, almost a literal dead spot in the bass region. This is compared to the 007s.
  
 Are you thinking of doing another DHT affair for the 009s? In general I'm interested in how you make decisions on what tubes to use.


----------



## mulveling

Transducer is always first. With the Stax 007 and 009, there seems to be a significantly larger performance gap between the decent amplifiers and the very good ones, compared to my experience with dynamic headphones. So I place amp 2nd in the context of 007/009. These days there are (finally) some very good DACs at very reasonable prices (we've come a long ways since the Bel Canto DAC 2 and Benchmark DAC 1 days), and thus I like the result of putting more money into a 009 and a better amp. If you hear garbage from your source with the 009 and a good amp, then you need to ditch that source -- the 009 is highly resolving but also pretty damn musical; it's not a nightmare to match to sources (I would advise against pairing with bright gear, though).
  
 With a vinyl source things get more nebulous because the cartridge itself is a transducer after all, and the arm & suspension system are its acoustic environment -- so here source investment becomes a bigger priority again. Vinyl sources can get VERY good, but usually also require a LOT of money to hit at or near the top echelon. Though, enjoyable vinyl playback can start at reasonable costs.


----------



## Rossliew

mulveling said:


> Transducer is always first. With the Stax 007 and 009, there seems to be a significantly larger performance gap between the decent amplifiers and the very good ones, compared to my experience with dynamic headphones. So I place amp 2nd in the context of 007/009. These days there are (finally) some very good DACs at very reasonable prices (we've come a long ways since the Bel Canto DAC 2 and Benchmark DAC 1 days), and thus I like the result of putting more money into a 009 and a better amp. If you hear garbage from your source with the 009 and a good amp, then you need to ditch that source -- the 009 is highly resolving but also pretty damn musical; it's not a nightmare to match to sources (I would advise against pairing with bright gear, though).


 
 I currently have an 007 Mk II and a KGST sourced from a Gungnir. Would you advise I upgrade to a 009 or a better DAC or maybe a KGSSHV? I listen to mostly metal, which for all intents and purposes, are generally not recorded hi res  But they sound excellent with my current set-up.


----------



## FrankCooter

nopants said:


> What are your initial thoughts Frank? I've spent a lot more time with the 009s recently and I can't help but feel that something is missing, almost a literal dead spot in the bass region. This is compared to the 007s.
> 
> Are you thinking of doing another DHT affair for the 009s? In general I'm interested in how you make decisions on what tubes to use.


 
  
 The 009's are the most resolving, detailed, and precise headphones I've ever had in my system. I will probably buy a pair of my own at some point. That said, I find them somewhat of a disappointment. I totally agree with you about the deficient bass compared to the 007. They are also too hot on top for my tastes. The soundstage is unremarkable, and at least subjectively, there seems to be a bit of flatness in the mids, particularly noticeable with female vocals. I want everything the 009 has, but in addition I want the the bass , impact , and midrange tonality of the LCD-3, plus the openess and soundstage of the K1000 or HD-800.  All this is completely subjective of course, and my tastes (basically high-end vintage analog) are very much a minority position within this forum. I would have liked to have seen a Stax flagship modeled more on the original Omega or the HE-90. A bit less neutral perhaps, but hopefully a bit more warm and musical. I think it's no accident that most of the top-tier Stax enthusiasts music tastes seem to run to classical or jazz. Wanking aside, we're living in a golden age of headphone development. It's an exiting time to be a headphone enthusiast. When I first started, it was pretty much the Grado RS-1 and Sennheiser HD600 ( both of which I owned), and neither was comparable to any of today's flagships.
  
 I'm currently building another DHT (845) amp for the 009's. This amp  will go through a series of evolutions and will probably be my "swan song" before I ride off into the sunset. Since becoming involved in HF, I've probably built 50 different tube headphone amps (most of which never saw the light of day).  I like to use unusual, and often little known tubes. Mostly it doesn't work, but every once in a while you discover a hidden gem. I leave it to others to work with EL34's, 6SN7's, and 300B's.
  
 The 845 (and eventually the GM70) are by far my favorite output tubes for the kind of electrostatic amps I build. Take a look at the plate curves for the 845. No other even remotely practical tube comes close to it's ability to swing the huge linear voltage required for electrostatics.


----------



## gilency

I happen to think DAC's are the least important in the chain.
 Transducer first, amplifier second; DACs, they are more similar than not.


----------



## eric65

frankcooter said:


> The 009's are the most resolving, detailed, and precise headphones I've ever had in my system. I will probably buy a pair of my own at some point. That said, I find them somewhat of a disappointment. I totally agree with you about the deficient bass compared to the 007. They are also too hot on top for my tastes. The soundstage is unremarkable, and at least subjectively, there seems to be a bit of flatness in the mids, particularly noticeable with female vocals. I want everything the 009 has, but in addition I want the the bass , impact , and midrange tonality of the LCD-3, plus the openess and soundstage of the K1000 or HD-800.  All this is completely subjective of course, and my tastes (basically high-end vintage analog) are very much a minority position within this forum. I would have liked to have seen a Stax flagship modeled more on the original Omega or the HE-90. A bit less neutral perhaps, but hopefully a bit more warm and musical. I think it's no accident that most of the top-tier Stax enthusiasts music tastes seem to run to classical or jazz. Wanking aside, we're living in a golden age of headphone development. It's an exiting time to be a headphone enthusiast. When I first started, it was pretty much the Grado RS-1 and Sennheiser HD600 ( both of which I owned), and neither was comparable to any of today's flagships.
> 
> I'm currently building another DHT (845) amp for the 009's. This amp  will go through a series of evolutions and will probably be my "swan song" before I ride off into the sunset. Since becoming involved in HF, I've probably built 50 different tube headphone amps (most of which never saw the light of day).  I like to use unusual, and often little known tubes. Mostly it doesn't work, but every once in a while you discover a hidden gem. I leave it to others to work with EL34's, 6SN7's, and 300B's.
> 
> The 845 (and eventually the GM70) are by far my favorite output tubes for the kind of electrostatic amps I build. Take a look at the plate curves for the 845. No other even remotely practical tube comes close to it's ability to swing the huge linear voltage required for electrostatics.


 
  
 Hi Franck (if you allow)
  
 I completely agree with your analysis on the headphones that you have listened to (007; 009 and LCD-3)
  
 Build a specific amplifier for the 009 might be a good idea to improve the two weaknesses of the 009: lack of bass and impact in the low; flatness of the midrange lacking wealth and "sex appeal".
  
 Recently I wrote to a member of Head-Fi this little message regarding the headphones you talk about
 " Hi Dave, and thank you for your appreciation of the 009 with very good amps produced by KG.
  009 is exceptional and, in my opinion, much better than the 007 mk1 and mk2; also better than the HD800 and very much higher than the HD-600.
  I recently discovered the LCD3-F and I was very pleasantly surprised by the quality of this headphones with my audio system, particularly by using the mode OTL of my amplifier. Even if it is a little less fine, slower, less accurate and less neutral than the 009, it brings two things that do not bring enough the 009: a midrange mesmerizing, and a real impact in the lower (more than the level) very pleasant to give rhythm and life.
 Both headphones are complementary and I have just as much fun to listen to one another (two different and complementary pleasures).
 Otherwise, my source is also very good (very analog) and unfortunately also very expensive (dac Audiomat Maestro reference (10 K Euros) + CD drive Audiomat D1 (6 K Euros) ; my two favorite headphones perfectly exploit the all dynamic, nuances and capabilities such a source. "
  
 In my opinion, failing to find the perfect headphones, bringing together the best of the 009 (precision and fineness) LCD3-F (sumptuousness of the medium, and impact in the low) and HD-800 (width of the sound stage), the best choice is the solution to keep at least this two headphones (009 and LCD3-F) (perfectly complementary) by choosing either two specific amplifiers (without compromise?) for each of these headphones, or find a versatile amplifier (therefore inevitably with compromises) with a very good synergy with these two headphones.
(nb: one exist, now: link: http://www.head-fi.org/t/745270/audiovalve-luminare-an-universal-headphone-amp-with-three-operating-modes-low-impedance-high-impedance-otl-and-stax/150#post_11332412)
  
 Eric


----------



## arnaud

There's a thread already for you Eric...


----------



## eric65

Here, it is matter of the Stax 009, LCD3 (F) (in comparison) and an amplifier adapted to the peculiarities of the 009.

 I give my opinion. That's it.
  
 You do not like these two headphones ?


----------



## scottiebabie

frankcooter said:


> I'm currently building another DHT (845) amp for the 009's. This amp  will go through a series of evolutions and will probably be my "swan song" before I ride off into the sunset.


 
  
 frank im betting your swansong amp will be a beast & a thing of beauty! i too am working my way up to a 009. wish i have the knowledge & diy skills to do something close to the work of art u come up with


----------



## astrostar59

Don't hear that sorry. My 009s with the KGSShv kicks hard in the bass. I have no complaints anywhere in the spectrum. I would think folk who find the 009s lacking anywhere need to look at the amp or DAC.


----------



## eric65

Listen in comparison the 009 and the LCD-3F headphones, with a good amp and a good dac, and you will immediately understand what we are talking.


----------



## astrostar59

Eric, try a tubed NOS DAC with the KGSShv or BHSE and the 009s. It has the midrange magic you might be missing in your setup? I really can't hear any loss
 anywhere, I am sorry to disagree with you. But that is why this hobby is so great.
  
 I have had many many Delta-Sigma DACs and almost stopped listening to music, finding the digital sound too irritating and plastic. A tubed DAC with the 009s is a match made in heaven - trust me. The 009 is very fast and transparent, but hooked up to a smooth and less 'Hifi' (plastic) DAC and it moved up to heaven level. My DAC used Tungsol 5687 New Old Stock valves and C-Core output transformers, and I run it direct to my KGSShv i.e. no pre-amp. I haven't heard anything better yet. True, I haven't heard the LCD3-3F, but I have heard the LCD2 and it wasn't for me. It struck me as a slower version of the 007 sound, muddy bass and lazy.


----------



## eric65

My 16 K EUR Dac + Drive Audiomat is comparable to that as the very good dac TotalDac D1 Dual; maybe a little less defined, but also "analog " if not even more. 
 The energy released in the bass is great, especially with the LCD-3F (with more impact).

  With my audio system, nothing muddy in the reproduction of the bass, both with the 009 and the LCD-3F. Bass faster but more reserved with the 009; strong bass with more impact with the LCD3-F (not including the splendor of the midrange, mesmerizing of the LCD3-F).


----------



## negura

astrostar59 said:


> Eric, try a tubed NOS DAC with the KGSShv or BHSE and the 009s. It has the midrange magic you might be missing in your setup? I really can't hear any loss
> anywhere, I am sorry to disagree with you. But that is why this hobby is so great.
> 
> I have had many many Delta-Sigma DACs and almost stopped listening to music, finding the digital sound too irritating and plastic. A tubed DAC with the 009s is a match made in heaven - trust me. The 009 is very fast and transparent, but hooked up to a smooth and less 'Hifi' (plastic) DAC and it moved up to heaven level. My DAC used Tungsol 5687 New Old Stock valves and C-Core output transformers, and I run it direct to my KGSShv i.e. no pre-amp. I haven't heard anything better yet. True, I haven't heard the LCD3-3F, but I have heard the LCD2 and it wasn't for me. It struck me as a slower version of the 007 sound, muddy bass and lazy.


 
  
 The planars also benefit something like an R2R DAC. I don't disagree with you, especially having a very similar KGSSHV to yours at home. Yes it does kick the 009s more into shape in the bass and treble regions, with some very organic mids. That said, there's still a gap to the planar sound weight that the 009 does not fill, and I will be surprised if it ever will whatever is thrown at it. That's not to say they are not technically better than headphones like the LCD-3Fs. At least based on what I am hearing right now


----------



## pataburd

How do the LCD-3F do in the upper frequencies?  Rolled off, like the LCD-2.2?  
 If I had to choose, I would trade that last bit of LF extension for that last bit of HF extension.
 One headfier I know admitted to preferring the LCD-3F, w/Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 cable, to the SR-009.


----------



## negura

pataburd said:


> How do the LCD-3F do in the upper frequencies?  Rolled off, like the LCD-2.2?
> If I had to choose, I would trade that last bit of LF extension for that last bit of HF extension.


 
  
 Treble and soundstage are some of the significant "fixes" on the new version. The mids no longer seem scooped out vs 3C. It's no Stax treble, but it's clearly better than previous LCD-numbers. It no longer seems to take me half a day to "forget" how the 009s sound so I can listen to the 3s. I actually like the 3Fs, but will see how long the fun lasts.


----------



## astrostar59

pataburd said:


> How do the LCD-3F do in the upper frequencies?  Rolled off, like the LCD-2.2?
> If I had to choose, I would trade that last bit of LF extension for that last bit of HF extension.


 
 YES me too! Lets face it, detail and ambiance makes you think you are 'there' bass boom or louder bass makes you think you are in the lava lounge hearing the main system through the walls.
  
 Seriously, I used to think the 007s had better bass, but only for a day or so of owning the 009s. The bass on the 007s was slower and with a mid bass hump. Also the treble had a roll off above say 12k which emphasised the bass. And these aspects were more forgiving of a detailed or bright sounding DAC or brighter (poor) recordings. If I jump back to the 007s from the 009s, the bass on the 009s has more depth (3D), it's deeper (lower Hz response) and it is more detailed and textured. Plus it is faster. I think the faster aspect probably fools some to think it is curtailed. The 007s were slower and had 'bass lag' thus gave the impression of more weight and volume of the bass.
  
 Sorry, this is hard to describe. But to get such detail and speed in all registers is an amazing feat in my book. I have stopped looking. The 009 gives me the classic Stax detail and speed and sensitivity PLUS bass wallop, unlike the 507 and the older Lambda ranges. Not sure how Stax can improve it really. 
  
 Even though the 009s are more sensitive (need less juice from the amplifier) they still need power reserve to perform and sound dynamic and not compressed, like any headphone or speaker does. The more powerful (ticking over) the amplifier is at normal volumes the better is does in this aspect. My SRM-717 is ok, but very quickly you realise it is at the limit and compressing the dynamics, even with the 009s. The bass looses a lot of impact and slam.


----------



## HemiSam

"bass wallop".  Wow.  that's the first time I've seen that posted referencing the 009's.  Interesting...
  
 HS


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Wallop may be kind of exagerative compared to badass orthos, but yes, there's something special *for a Stax* about the bass punch / tightness of the SR-009...and I believe Stax did communicate about this achievment
 007 may be the most bassy Stax, but slower and softer in this area.
  
 2 cents / YMMV

 Ali


----------



## HemiSam

I was headed towards a 007 once I receive my amp as I like a warmer sound sig and a bit more bass.  I don't need clinical highs.  If the 009 was that meaty on the low end, then I wouldl likely rethink that choice.  I believe I'm back on track now....
  
 HS


----------



## s1rrah

Could anyone here that has heard both, please comment on the perceived differences between the Stax SRM-600LE and the Stax SRM-007TII amplifiers?
  
 I've recently had a chance to demo a SRM-600LE amplifier and really enjoyed it; coming from a 323S, I found the 600LE to be far more musical, more lush and with much better bass and easier, sweeter highs ... while also being very detailed and retaining a really great mid range. With my 404LE headphones, I vastly preferred the 600LE over the 323S.
  
 I've had to give the 600LE back for various reasons and am currently looking for another one but they are slim pickings at best ...
  
 And so I've been considering the 007tii amplifier as it's so readily available ...
  
 Any comments regarding the sound of these two Stax tube amps?
  
 thanks,
 Joel


----------



## Ali-Pacha

hemisam said:


> I was headed towards a 007 once I receive my amp as I like a warmer sound sig and a bit more bass.  I don't need clinical highs.  If the 009 was that meaty on the low end, then I wouldl likely rethink that choice.  I believe I'm back on track now....
> 
> HS


 
 I don't think "clinical" is the right word when speaking of Stax. You may dislike the FR, the lack of bass slam (specifically around 80-100 hz), but "clinical" sounds like unforgiving dynamic cans with mediocre amplification. HD800 come to mind, but some AKG (K812) and Beyerdynamic (T1) may be part of this. Even with the brighter Stax (Lambda Signature ?), highs are sweet and never irritating.
  
 Yes, SR-009 is brighter than SR-007, but the latter has something peaky around 10-12 khz that allows them excellent detail retrieval...they sound like "super HD600" to me. Maybe too polite with dynamics and kind of veiled in the (high)mids, but they are kings of long listening sessions.

 Ali


----------



## negura

ali-pacha said:


> I don't think "clinical" is the right word when speaking of Stax. You may dislike the FR, the lack of bass slam (specifically around 80-100 hz), but "clinical" sounds like unforgiving dynamic cans with mediocre amplification. HD800 come to mind, but some AKG (K812) and Beyerdynamic (T1) may be part of this. Even with the brighter Stax (Lambda Signature ?), highs are sweet and never irritating.
> 
> Yes, SR-009 is brighter than SR-007, but the latter has something peaky around 10-12 khz that allows them excellent detail retrieval...they sound like "super HD600" to me. Maybe too polite with dynamics and kind of veiled in the (high)mids, but they are kings of long listening sessions.
> 
> Ali


 
  
 Exactly this. On the KGSSHV the 009s treble is amongst the most detailed and as inoffensive as the new Audeze. Which is quite a feat for Stax considering how much more detailed the treble is.


----------



## HemiSam

ali-pacha said:


> I don't think "clinical" is the right word when speaking of Stax. You may dislike the FR, the lack of bass slam (specifically around 80-100 hz), but "clinical" sounds like unforgiving dynamic cans with mediocre amplification. HD800 come to mind, but some AKG (K812) and Beyerdynamic (T1) may be part of this. Even with the brighter Stax (Lambda Signature ?), highs are sweet and never irritating.
> 
> Yes, SR-009 is brighter than SR-007, but the latter has something peaky around 10-12 khz that allows them excellent detail retrieval...they sound like "super HD600" to me. Maybe too polite with dynamics and kind of veiled in the (high)mids, but they are kings of long listening sessions.
> 
> Ali


 
  
 Communicating via a forum is tough at best, so I'll take your point.  It was an attempt at characterizing a lot of neutral detail in the upper range and perhaps a bit too much up top for me, personally.  I don't mind a bit of roll-off way up top as long as there's a good/reasonable level of detail.  I'm older now and sadly it came with age and/or my hobbies.  I couldn't live with something like HD800's...that's not even a start for this camper.  That much I've learned. 
  
 HS


----------



## mulveling

hemisam said:


> "bass wallop".  Wow.  that's the first time I've seen that posted referencing the 009's.  Interesting...
> 
> HS


 
  
 Check out Tyll's "Comparing World-Class Headphones" review on inner-fidelity. On SR-009 Bass Slam, he writes: "Holy moly! These hit amazingly hard. Yes, the lowest two octaves are a bit shelved down, but my goodness they rock!"
  


hemisam said:


> Communicating via a forum is tough at best, so I'll take your point.  It was an attempt at characterizing a lot of neutral detail in the upper range and perhaps a bit too much up top for me, personally.  I don't mind a bit of roll-off way up top as long as there's a good/reasonable level of detail.  I'm older now and sadly it came with age and/or my hobbies.  I couldn't live with something like HD800's...that's not even a start for this camper.  That much I've learned.
> 
> HS


 
  
 Though many/most might consider the HD800 and SR-009 to be similar in signature and quality, to me they're worlds apart. I would be *very* unhappy if forced to live with the HD800. I don't like them. The SR-009 are my favorite headphones, and that's including consideration of Orpheus, R10, Qualia 010 (which I do still admire), L3000 (which I still like), K1000, HP-1000, SR-007, etc. Sure the 009 has raised upper mids that give its slightly bright flavor, but its treble is perfectly smooth and non-fatiguing. The midrange is gorgeous. And the bass, I think, is close to as perfect as can be achieved in headphones. Whenever I attempt to listen to HD800, I'll only last more than a minute with a warm amp, and inevitably I'll end up thinking "gosh, I wonder if an even _warmer_ amp could make these sound almost bearable". However, I've enjoyed the 009 with a range of amplifiers from warm, to neutral, to even slightly bright.
  
 Still, you may find them not to your liking. But I'm sure there are more example of folks like me that hate the HD800 and love the SR-009.


----------



## negura

It's exactly why I sold the HD800s. There was little reason I wanted to carry on with crazy system matching and modding to "fix" it's treble and bass flaws, when the Stax SR009s are around and not only show how treble should be done, in such an effortless way, but were actually better in bass slam than the HD800s too. Not to mention the mids. The HD800s have bigger stage width but the letterbox sound stage format that doesn't scale down well, didn't tickle my fancy in the same way as it seems to work for others. That soundstage does work well with some music though.


----------



## purk

mulveling said:


> Check out Tyll's "Comparing World-Class Headphones" review on inner-fidelity. On SR-009 Bass Slam, he writes: "Holy moly! These hit amazingly hard. Yes, the lowest two octaves are a bit shelved down, but my goodness they rock!"
> 
> 
> Though many/most might consider the HD800 and SR-009 to be similar in signature and quality, to me they're worlds apart. I would be *very* unhappy if forced to live with the HD800. I don't like them. The SR-009 are my favorite headphones, and that's including consideration of Orpheus, R10, Qualia 010 (which I do still admire), L3000 (which I still like), K1000, HP-1000, SR-007, etc. Sure the 009 has raised upper mids that give its slightly bright flavor, but its treble is perfectly smooth and non-fatiguing. The midrange is gorgeous. And the bass, I think, is close to as perfect as can be achieved in headphones. Whenever I attempt to listen to HD800, I'll only last more than a minute with a warm amp, and inevitably I'll end up thinking "gosh, I wonder if an even _warmer_ amp could make these sound almost bearable". However, I've enjoyed the 009 with a range of amplifiers from warm, to neutral, to even slightly bright.
> ...


 
 I think you will like the HD800 a good bit better out of the Balanced Super Symmetry Dynahi.  Unlike you Mike, I do like the HD800 a great deal (of course I also find the SR009 to be more superior).  We usually agree on anything headphones wise but the HD-800 is where we differ the most.  You always find them unbearable while I always think highly of them given their price tag.  They also do work really well with my kind of music.  Heavy & hard rocks are hardly on the HD-800's repertiore.


----------



## edstrelow

I have not been too enthusiastic about the 009 based on the complaints about its high frequency response, the recurring complaints about reliability and then, of course, the price.  This and the fact that I am sending rather large monthly cash transfusions to 2 girls who are in college in the Bay Area. 
  
 So I hope to have a good listen to the 009 at the March Canjam.  Possibly someone will let me put  self-stick sorbothane on the earcup 009 earcups. While I have generally been putting it closer to the drivers on my other Stax phones, you can usually hear an effect sticking it just about anywhere.  For the 007, that even means the metal headband arcs. I would predict a slight increase in bass and a reduction in treble harshness even from  small strips of sorb.
  
 So far, as I have noted in my thread, I have been happiest with the sound of my LNS  and 404 Lambdas, treated with sorb, to the point that I preferred them to the untreated  007. Although finally I have what I think is a good 007 sorb mod which surpasses the treated Lambdas.
  
 I should have these on display at Canjam.


----------



## dripf

s1rrah said:


> Any comments regarding the sound of these two Stax tube amps?
> 
> thanks,
> Joel


 
  
 Now if only someone had a wide range of Stax amps that they could loan to someone like Tyll. Tyll could produce a chart recording the FR variation of all these amps relative to the KGSSRE at 90, 100 and 106 dB. It'd make an interesting article.


----------



## barid

So what are the current thoughts on the SRM-727II (with feedback mod done).  Anyone have any opinions of how it compares to the old KGSS (not the HV) with an old lambda pro, 007mk1, or 009?  I know it's not regarded well vs the newer KGSSHV etc.
  
 Used to have a KGSS but sold it to fund some other gear a while back.  I see a lot of nice KGSSHV's on the For Sale board now, but I don't know if I'm ready to swing the price tag for one of those at the moment. 
  
 Mainly wondering if it would be a significant step up/down vs my old KGSS.


----------



## n3rdling

dripf said:


> Now if only someone had a wide range of Stax amps that they could loan to someone like Tyll. Tyll could produce a chart recording the FR variation of all these amps relative to the KGSSRE at 90, 100 and 106 dB. It'd make an interesting article.


 
  
 I highly doubt you'd see any FR variation in the audible band between any of these amps.  They should all measure flat in FR.
  
 barid, I think you'll like the modded 727.  It should be really similar to the KGSS but smaller and more convenient in most cases.


----------



## theboch

edstrelow said:


> I have not been too enthusiastic about the 009 based on the complaints about its high frequency response, the recurring complaints about reliability and then, of course, the price.  This and the fact that I am sending rather large monthly cash transfusions to 2 girls who are in college in the Bay Area.
> 
> So I hope to have a good listen to the 009 at the March Canjam.  Possibly someone will let me put  self-stick sorbothane on the earcup 009 earcups. While I have generally been putting it closer to the drivers on my other Stax phones, you can usually hear an effect sticking it just about anywhere.  For the 007, that even means the metal headband arcs. I would predict a slight increase in bass and a reduction in treble harshness even from  small strips of sorb.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have the SR-009 with a KGST amp.
  
 I had the HD-800 and the LCD-2.
  
 All I can say is that the SR-009 with the KGST does not have a problem with high frequency or missing bass (in my opinion).
  
 They just sound right. Every frequency area seems to be just right... nothing overly accentuated!
  
 While I loved the HD-800, the SR-009 is just overall the better headphone and for me personally more suitable and versatile.
  
 The LCD-2's are also great, but their kind of coloration of the sound ist just too much for my taste.


----------



## n3rdling

I think the people who say something to the effect of the SR-009 having no/weak bass basically went into listening with a preconceived idea of "how electrostats sound" and clung to it.  They quite obviously hit pretty damn hard in the bass.


----------



## theboch

n3rdling said:


> They quite obviously hit pretty damn hard in the bass.


 
  
 Absolutely. I went through a listening session with some "the XX" tracks which feature a wide variety of deep bass in every track and was so surprised by the bass quantity and quality that I initially was really shocked what the SR-009 can deliver in terms of bass...


----------



## Sorrodje

SR009 provides tight and impactful bass. It's not for people who like warm bass. the only Stax I heard before the SR009 was a SR303 and the first thing i thought when I discovered the SR009 (My reference headphone is the HD800) was "its does not have the typical Stat sound" . impact, meat and body are there.
  
 I have a SR404 and a Koss. the Koss is warmer and provides a bit more bass but IMO the 404 offer tighter bass and more impact . The KOSS is in the FS board while the SR404 is on my desk. 
  
 Full and warm bass are not for everyone


----------



## eric65

I love my 009;  it is my best headphone; its first quality is its versatility: it is good to very good in all. The level in the bass is sufficient (better than the HD-800) ; the bass is very tight, detailed, textured, fast ; treble are not brilliant, they are rather soft, but it is clear that he has less impact in the bass than the LCD-3F. This is evident when listening to a piano.


----------



## gammarayson

I am rather fond of my Stax SR 007 mk 2s driven by the SRM 007t  (the so called Kimik version available from the uk). I also own some Sennheiser HD800s run by Oppo's HA-1. The 2 headphones compliment each other nicely, and as I have had both for around 6 years, I feel that I know them very well. Neither combination is perfect, but both have great qualities. I listen mostly to classical music and find that in demanding orchestral passages and some piano recordings, the Stax amp is under strain and in extreme cases distorts. I have been considering upgrading to a KGSShv amp which I have read about here which I believe is very highly regarded. I am curious to hear from other SR007 or 009 users who have upgraded from a Stax amp to a KGSShv about the sonic improvements they have experienced. Have the differences been dramatic or subtle? I have heard my HD800s on 2 amps, a Meier Audio Corda Concerto and my present Oppo HA-1. I couldn't hear much difference, slightly preferred the Oppo, but I'm also using a balanced cable which is a bit louder. However, the received wisdom here seems to be that the SRM 007t doesn't have enough "oomph" to drive the SR007s. 
 Birgir kindly replied when I wrote to him:- 
  
 As for the difference between the KGSSHV and the 007t II there will be more
 of everything and the amp won't mind it at all when you push up the volume.
 More control, more neutrality, more treble extension  and deeper bass.  This
 email I got from a new KGSSHV owner a few weeks ago sums it up nicely:

 Dear Birgir

 I got the KGSSHV today - thank You very much! Much better than the modified
 727: Much more articulation and authority with complex music, like
 orchestras - where the 727 always gave up. Hard bass and soft treble -
 that's how it should be!

 Thanks again for the wonderful amp!
  
 Have others also experienced the same?
 PS Not really much chance of auditioning as I am in Denmark. I believe Moorhead has sold his.


----------



## dripf

n3rdling said:


> I highly doubt you'd see any FR variation in the audible band between any of these amps.  They should all measure flat in FR.


 
  
  
 How do we then find the difference?


----------



## n3rdling

dripf said:


> How do we then find the difference?


 
  
 Probably by listening while the amp is trying to power dynamic loads, instead of the typical THD @ 1kHz/Xvolts static load in the manual.  If you believe everything that characterizes an amp's performance lies in the standard measurements, that's fine and I have no problem with that, but there are probably other forums where you'll be more welcomed honestly.  I say this because it seems you're baiting a tired argument.


----------



## lojay

n3rdling said:


> I think the people who say something to the effect of the SR-009 having no/weak bass basically went into listening with a preconceived idea of "how electrostats sound" and clung to it.  They quite obviously hit pretty damn hard in the bass.


 
  
 I agree that the SR009 has amazing bass. I really enjoyed the bass that the SR009 had with the Woo WA5 and Woo WEE combo. I would not even say its taut or lean in the bass - as compared to the HD800 it clearly has more bass quantity and hits harder. I can only imagine it'd get better with better amps.
  
_However_, compared to the HE-6, it is noticeable that the SR009's bass tends to "hit and run" and has a slight "fluffiness" to it, in the sense that it sounds less tactile and solid. It is hard to describe. While it goes probably just as low as the HE-6, and there is probably even more bass quantity than the HE-6 sometimes, it seems that the HE-6 pushes a thick chunk of air against your ear while the SR009 pushes air in a more "porous" manner leaving a quicker decay and less solid sustain in the bass. 
  
 One would be right to say that the bass of an SR009 is _different _in nature to the planars, but not necessary weaker. The bass is there but presented in a different manner. Some may think that the SR009's bass is quicker and like that, some might prefer the HE-6 for a more impactful and tactile bass response that has sustain.


----------



## dripf

n3rdling said:


> Probably by listening while the amp is trying to power dynamic loads, instead of the typical THD @ 1kHz/Xvolts static load in the manual.


 
  
 Just yesterday I believed I had an EQ applied when the master was off. It took me fifteen minutes to realise.


> If you believe everything that characterizes an amp's performance lies in the standard measurements, that's fine and I have no problem with that,


 
  We haven't applied the standard measurements yet. They may well be inadequate.
  
 Quote:


> I say this because it seems you're baiting a tired argument.


 
 There has been no argument made previously about testing the behaviour of different electrostatic amps. Rather strange that you found my idea to be a good flashpoint to begin baiting the audio camps to war.


----------



## n3rdling

I was making an assumption based on your posting history.  If this isn't the case then I hope my responses were adequate.


----------



## pataburd

All this and I am STILL on the fence between the SR-007 and SR-009!
 : )


----------



## negura

There was no contest for me. Buy both and decide later.


----------



## NoPants

n3rdling said:


> I think the people who say something to the effect of the SR-009 having no/weak bass basically went into listening with a preconceived idea of "how electrostats sound" and clung to it.  They quite obviously hit pretty damn hard in the bass.


 
  
 I wouldn't go that far, there's just a frequency region where you don't perceive as much bass compared to above and below it. It's disconcerting when you're switching between the 007/009, even in my use case which isn't side by side


----------



## edstrelow

theboch said:


> I have the SR-009 with a KGST amp.
> 
> I had the HD-800 and the LCD-2.
> 
> ...


 
   I don't dispute your opinion I merely suggest that a super easy mod with 50 cents worth of sorbothane might be worth listening to. So far I have worked on a half dozen Stax phones and they are all sensitive to this stuff.   I suspect so are dynamics, but I have only tried one so far.


----------



## Earspeakers

negura said:


> There was no contest for me. Buy both and decide later.


 

 I like that one. 
  
 Personally I wouldn't bother, just buy the one you can afford and enjoy. People get way too obsessed by the most fabulously minor stuff IMO. But if you _like_ getting obsessed by minor stuff, then go for it.


----------



## robeeert1

...


----------



## robeeert1

...


----------



## Ali-Pacha

negura said:


> There was no contest for me. Buy both and decide later.


 
 Bought both, waiting for my BHSE.
 With "entry-level" (ok, just nonsense with Stax 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) amplification, SR-009 is way ahead its older sibling.

 Ali


----------



## mulveling

purk said:


> I think you will like the HD800 a good bit better out of the Balanced Super Symmetry Dynahi.  Unlike you Mike, I do like the HD800 a great deal (of course I also find the SR009 to be more superior).  We usually agree on anything headphones wise but the HD-800 is where we differ the most.  You always find them unbearable while I always think highly of them given their price tag.  They also do work really well with my kind of music.  Heavy & hard rocks are hardly on the HD-800's repertiore.


 
 I still don't think I'll like the HD800 even out of that. However I do look forward to hearing the b-SUSY Dynahi, and expect it to be a phenomenal amp 
  
 The name is disconcerting, however. "Susie"s in women are bad news!!


----------



## purk

Speaking of the SR009's bass, it is really depending on which amps you are driving them with.  The best bass I've heard out of the SR009 is certainly with the DIY T2 following by a full-sized KGSSHV 450V Sanyo part.  The BHSE is also able to bring out a really tight bass response from SR009, but it lack a little in volume (but not in quality) compared to the KGST.  What you are giving up on the KGST is some resolving power, resolution, and width/depth of soundstage when compared to the full-size KGSSHV & BHSE.  I still take the full-size KGSSHV 450V Sanyo over the KGST for SR009 IMO.  The full-sized KGSSHV done right is quite an amazing amp.


----------



## Rossliew

purk said:


> Speaking of the SR009's bass, it is really depending on which amps you are driving them with.  The best bass I've heard out of the SR009 is certainly with the DIY T2 following by a full-sized KGSSHV 450V Sanyo part.  The BHSE is also able to bring out a really tight bass response from SR009, but it lack a little in volume (but not in quality) compared to the KGST.  What you are giving up on the KGST is some resolving power, resolution, and width/depth of soundstage when compared to the full-size KGSSHV & BHSE.  I still take the full-size KGSSHV 450V Sanyo over the KGST for SR009 IMO.  The full-sized KGSSHV done right is quite an amazing amp.


 

 May I ask if the 007s will pair well with BHSE, more specifically Birgir's version of the BHSE?


----------



## karlgerman

The 007 will have a great benefit of any "stronger" amp than original Stax amps. They are a little bit harder to drive.
  
 Speaking of bass on the stax headphones in my experience, it also depend strongly on the soundfile- quality and how it will be processed by the sound engineer.
  
 For me, there is a rage from less to way to much bass in some soundfiles.
 For sure, a better amp like the BHSE or KGSS/hv always sound better / more controlled and with less distortions and will always be the best choice for any STAX headphone.
  
 This might be, if one like to reproduce originally sound in jazz or classical music, a big problem.
 Same for the clipping in some files if the sound engineer tried to master as loud as possible, also known as "loudness war"
  
 A reason for hearing so many failures is that a headphone, especially the STAX, are a lot better than some studio monitor system´s.


----------



## Downrange

gammarayson said:


> I am rather fond of my Stax SR 007 mk 2s driven by the SRM 007t  (the so called Kimik version available from the uk). I also own some Sennheiser HD800s run by Oppo's HA-1. The 2 headphones compliment each other nicely, and as I have had both for around 6 years, I feel that I know them very well. Neither combination is perfect, but both have great qualities. I listen mostly to classical music and find that in demanding orchestral passages and some piano recordings, the Stax amp is under strain and in extreme cases distorts. I have been considering upgrading to a KGSShv amp which I have read about here which I believe is very highly regarded. I am curious to hear from other SR007 or 009 users who have upgraded from a Stax amp to a KGSShv about the sonic improvements they have experienced. Have the differences been dramatic or subtle? I have heard my HD800s on 2 amps, a Meier Audio Corda Concerto and my present Oppo HA-1. I couldn't hear much difference, slightly preferred the Oppo, but I'm also using a balanced cable which is a bit louder. However, the received wisdom here seems to be that the SRM 007t doesn't have enough "oomph" to drive the SR007s.
> Birgir kindly replied when I wrote to him:-
> 
> As for the difference between the KGSSHV and the 007t II there will be more
> ...


 
  
 I had both my 007TII and an early KGSS on hand here about 7 years ago.  I did very exhaustive testing of my 007s (earlier model, not IIs) with both amps.  I found the KGSS gave a more "solid state" rendering of the music I liked best - classical, "soft" jazz and rock, vocals.  Without exception, when I put the Stax tube amp back in, the midrange was better - female vocals, especially, were much better.  Only on the most dynamic passages did the KGSS sound better to me, so for most music I liked, the Stax tube amp was the better choice.  I sold the KGSS and still enjoy the 007s with the Stax 007TII.  Now, I'd probably be a fan of the BHSE if I had one, pretty sure about that, but the cost and the wait didn't balance out for me - I actually listen to speakers mostly, finding the overall rendition to be better through the big Maggies and sub for most musical occasions.  Long story short, hold out for a higher power tube amp, or be content with the Stax, just mho.


----------



## gammarayson

Thanks for your useful comments. I too don't have the commitment to go the BHSE route, not to mention lack of patience waiting for delivery. I have also considered auditioning the 009s as many find them satisfactory on the Stax amp, being easier to drive. I have been offered an advantageous part-exchange price from my dealer for my 007s and Lambda Pros plus cash. That would be about the same that an KGSSHV amp costs. In other words, I'm wondering if it would be better to upgrade to the 009s, or keep the 007s and try a new amp. Obviously I need to hear the 009s. Or just save money and learn to love my present gear


----------



## realmassy

My vote goes for a 009 and a cheap amp like the 252, there's always time to get a better amp, but the combo is already very very good.


----------



## Michgelsen

gammarayson said:


> Or just save money and learn to love my present gear


 
  
 Yes, that's probably the best idea. I sometimes ask myself: is the enjoyment I get out of my current system much higher than when I started with an HD650 and a Musical Fidelity X-Can v3 amp? A little maybe, but not much, to be honest. At that time, I was incredibly happy with that setup. But, I couldn't go back now that I've tasted the Stax fruit, unfortunately.
  
 In any case, the SR-007 is an excellent all-rounder. In my opinion, a lot of headphones subtly steer your musical preference to the music that comes out best with that particular set of headphones, and away from music that doesn't sound as good on them. The SR-007 is special to me, precisely because it does not favour any type of music in particular at all. I can enjoy every genre the same, setting me free to choose any music I feel like listening to at that time. That's very valuable freedom to me that I've not found in any other set of headphones. However, I haven't heard the 009 yet...
 So, even if you decide not to go for the 009, you can and should be very happy with the 007. At least it has cured my upgraditis for years now.


----------



## realmassy

michgelsen said:


> I sometimes ask myself: is the enjoyment I get out of my current system much higher than when I started with an HD650 and a Musical Fidelity X-Can v3 amp? A little maybe, but not much, to be honest. At that time, I was incredibly happy with that setup. But, I couldn't go back now that I've tasted the Stax fruit, unfortunately.




This is a very good point. I know I'm saying something very obvious, but we should always remember the real art, the actual amazing part of this hobby is the music reproduced by our rigs.
I like forums like head-fi, I like discussing about headphones, amps and DACS but often the reality is pretty different from the impressions we share, as we are obviously biased by the money spent and the pleasure of owning something unique.
There are clearly noticeable differences between a basic STAX amp and a BHSE, but are these differences really preventing us from enjoying the music? To be honest I don't think so. While I'm typing I'm listening to the Quartetto Italiano playing Beethoven, on a so-so recording and using the cheap 252 (with a 009 though!) and all I can hear is pure bliss.

And most important guys: keep your ears honest and spend more time with live concerts...believe it or not that is even better than STAX


----------



## gammarayson

realmassy said:


> This is a very good point. I know I'm saying something very obvious, but we should always remember the real art, the actual amazing part of this hobby is the music reproduced by our rigs.
> I like forums like head-fi, I like discussing about headphones, amps and DACS but often the reality is pretty different from the impressions we share, as we are obviously biased by the money spent and the pleasure of owning something unique.
> There are clearly noticeable differences between a basic STAX amp and a BHSE, but are these differences really preventing us from enjoying the music? To be honest I don't think so. While I'm typing I'm listening to the Quartetto Italiano playing Beethoven, on a so-so recording and using the cheap 252 (with a 009 though!) and all I can hear is pure bliss.
> 
> And most important guys: keep your ears honest and spend more time with live concerts...believe it or not that is even better than STAX


 

 I agree wholeheartedly! By the way, although not state of the art, I find the recording quality on the Quartetto Italianos Beethoven recordings very atmospheric, specially on Pentatone's sacd reissues. Sublime music-making


----------



## realmassy

Ah! I've seen the Pentatone edition, but never listened to it, thanks for the suggestion!
And you're right the recording is not bad, but very different from the modern close miked standard, with great instrument separation and plenty of details 'in your face'


----------



## purk

rossliew said:


> May I ask if the 007s will pair well with BHSE, more specifically Birgir's version of the BHSE?


 
 I have not auditioned Birgir KGBH, but knowing that his favorite headphones is the SR007 then his KGBH should be a perfect match to the SR007.  Short of the T2, I'll take the BHSE (or probably Birgir KGBH) following by the full-szied KGSSHV 500V IXY parts b/c it is the more neutral/leaner of the two full-sized KGSSHV.  His KGSSHV mini is also able to drive the SR007 really well.  The KGST is certainly too lush sounding for the SR007 and it doesn't have the same driver control compared to the other mentioned amps.


----------



## astrostar59

purk said:


> I have not auditioned Birgir KGBH, but knowing that his favorite headphones is the SR007 then his KGBH should be a perfect match to the SR007.  Short of the T2, I'll take the BHSE (or probably Birgir KGBH) following by the full-szied KGSSHV 500V IXY parts b/c it is the more neutral/leaner of the two full-sized KGSSHV.  His KGSSHV mini is also able to drive the SR007 really well.  The KGST is certainly too lush sounding for the SR007 and it doesn't have the same driver control compared to the other mentioned amps.


 
 Interesting. I wonder if my KGSShv 450v Sanyo is warmish? That and my tubed NOS DAC might be the reason I like my 009s so much. Dunno, but I am glad it seems to work. System synergy again, I think there is a lot of mileage in that subject. And it is why I believe this hobby is so fascinating, all the variables, you can either love the thrill of the search or jump off a cliff. It's quite crazy when the money gets to this level....


----------



## NotaLefty

I'm having a really hard time right now. I'm on the verge of buying SR-007's, but I couldn't justify owning both the HD800 and Stax, unless it was a lower model like the 2020 or similar. There's nothing that I find wrong with my current setup, I am just so curious as to how the SR-007's sound, and I have never heard an electrostatic headphone. 
  
 I know I'm likely to get a biased answer here, but is the SR-007 a worthy upgrade over the HD800, or even an upgrade at all? The model I'm looking at is the current MK2, just because I feel more comfortable buying a unit that is still in production in the event that I have technical problems with it.


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. I wonder if my KGSShv 450v Sanyo is warmish? That and my tubed NOS DAC might be the reason I like my 009s so much. Dunno, but I am glad it seems to work. System synergy again, I think there is a lot of mileage in that subject. And it is why I believe this hobby is so fascinating, all the variables, you can either love the thrill of the search or jump off a cliff. It's quite crazy when the money gets to this level....


 
 If your 450V Sanyo is anything like mine (which it probably is), then yes it's warm. And it's a perfect match with the 009. It's a less than ideal match with the 007 Mk I (haven't heard the Mk II), though of course it still sounds very good there -- just a bit too thick.


----------



## purk

notalefty said:


> I'm having a really hard time right now. I'm on the verge of buying SR-007's, but I couldn't justify owning both the HD800 and Stax, unless it was a lower model like the 2020 or similar. There's nothing that I find wrong with my current setup, I am just so curious as to how the SR-007's sound, and I have never heard an electrostatic headphone.
> 
> I know I'm likely to get a biased answer here, but is the SR-007 a worthy upgrade over the HD800, or even an upgrade at all? The model I'm looking at is the current MK2, just because I feel more comfortable buying a unit that is still in production in the event that I have technical problems with it.


 
 That is depending on which amp you are planning to use with the SR-007.  Unless you have the KGSSHV, KGBH, BHSE, or T2...then it may not be a clear upgrade over the HD800.  The SR007 can sound bloated and slow with less than ideal amps.


----------



## NotaLefty

purk said:


> That is depending on which amp you are planning to use with the SR-007.  Unless you have the KGSSHV, KGBH, BHSE, or T2...then it may not be a clear upgrade over the HD800.  The SR007 can sound bloated and slow with less than ideal amps.


 
 I was planning on just using a Woo Wee, or possibly an SRM-323s.


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## NoPants

The 323s is fine, you typically need to crank the volume up a bit more than usual to get good results in my experience


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## purk

nopants said:


> The 323s is fine, you typically need to crank the volume up a bit more than usual to get good results in my experience


 
 It is fine but hardly optimal though.  The 007 really needs a good amp to sound their best and I'm not sure if it will be much better than the HD800 with just the SRM-323S.


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## NoPants

if his signature is to be believed I think it would a net positive upgrade
  
 but I've heard a different set of electrostatic amplifiers compared to you so my opinion probably diverges a bit.


----------



## purk

nopants said:


> if his signature is to be believed I think it would a net positive upgrade
> 
> but I've heard a different set of electrostatic amplifiers compared to you so my opinion probably diverges a bit.


 
 Ultimately I think the SR007 will be able to scale better than the HD800 when he pairs it with a better amp.  However given the similar budget, his HD800 may sound better given that he can upgrade the amp to the Ragnarok for about the same price as SR007 MKI + SRM-323S.  The HD800 does really well too especially with a powerful sounding solidstage amp in balanced mode.  
  
 I would love to hear your megatron one of these days.  I bet it sound awesome with the SR007 MKI.


----------



## Michgelsen

notalefty said:


> I'm having a really hard time right now. I'm on the verge of buying SR-007's, but I couldn't justify owning both the HD800 and Stax, unless it was a lower model like the 2020 or similar. There's nothing that I find wrong with my current setup, I am just so curious as to how the SR-007's sound, and I have never heard an electrostatic headphone.
> 
> I know I'm likely to get a biased answer here, but is the SR-007 a worthy upgrade over the HD800, or even an upgrade at all? The model I'm looking at is the current MK2, just because I feel more comfortable buying a unit that is still in production in the event that I have technical problems with it.


 
  
 Yes, I would say it's definitely an upgrade, although its sound signature is quite different from the HD800. The Lambda series are more like the HD800 in that regard. Personally, I prefer the 2050 system (SR-202 + amp) to the HD800. But, you said you would like to try the SR-007, which is different, but overall better and more sophisticated.
  
 I don't know how well you've followed this and older Stax threads, but amping the SR-007 is a topic of endless debate, and also an endless effort of always bringing more powerful amps to the table.
 To summarise, a lot of people feel that Stax' own amps are not up to the job, and you need an aftermarket or DIY solution to fully bring it to life. However, there are also folks who seem content with the SR-007 driven by Stax transistor amps. I am one of those people. Although it's possible you might like it out of a Stax tube amp, generally I would recommend not to use those with the SR-007, as this can result in loose bass and a bit of a dark, wooly sound (but good midrange).
 The SRM-323 gets a lot of recommendations as a solid beginner amp. You can get one easily second-hand, and also sell it again easily. Therefore I would recommend this if you're just trying out the SR-007, rather than immediately spending big bucks on one of the aftermarket Kevin Gilmore designed amps, only to find out that the SR-007 wasn't really what you wanted. As a middle ground, the SRM-717 or a modded 727 are the most powerful transistor amps Stax made/make, and from my own experience I can say that the 717 certainly powers the SR-007 well enough to deliver awesomeness in spades.


----------



## Downrange

michgelsen said:


> Yes, I would say it's definitely an upgrade, although its sound signature is quite different from the HD800. The Lambda series are more like the HD800 in that regard. Personally, I prefer the 2050 system (SR-202 + amp) to the HD800. But, you said you would like to try the SR-007, which is different, but overall better and more sophisticated.


 
 The 202s sound a whole lot better than they have any right to, especially through the flagship Stax SRM-007-II.  The one time I plugged my 007s into the little Stax solid state amp (SRM-212) I didn't listen too long.  Love the 202s and would only want Lambda Pros now to complete my trifecta.
  
 That said, I really can't stress enough how different the Lambdas are from the Omega 007s.  I haven't heard the Sennheiser 800s yet, but from what I've read, would worry that moving to the 007s from that platform, one would think the sound a bit "veiled."  It's not really, but it takes some adjusting to the 007s response curve (no big upper mid, lower treble peak - they actually measure down a few db).  The more mellow sound may at first sound "less exciting" - I get this at first whenever I switch from Lambdas to Omegas - but after a few minutes, my ears adjust and the Lambdas sound unnaturally bright when I switch back to them.  The point is all the music is there with the 007s, but ears do adjust.  The 007s have this incredible midrange that just sounds like a real concert to me.  The Lambdas seem to push the highs at me, like a "hi fi recording."  Just my .02.


----------



## Michgelsen

downrange said:


> (...) it takes some adjusting to the 007s response curve (no big upper mid, lower treble peak - they actually measure down a few db).  The more mellow sound may at first sound "less exciting" - I get this at first whenever I switch from Lambdas to Omegas - but after a few minutes, my ears adjust and the Lambdas sound unnaturally bright when I switch back to them.  The point is all the music is there with the 007s, but ears do adjust.  The 007s have this incredible midrange that just sounds like a real concert to me.  The Lambdas seem to push the highs at me, like a "hi fi recording."  Just my .02.


 
  
 I fully agree. You need to give the SR-007 a bit of time on your head to really appreciate it. If you go quickly switching between Lambdas and the 007, you may feel that the Lambdas are better, because they're airier, throw a bigger soundstage and shove the details more in your face. Once the SR-007 settles in however, or your brain settles in, you'll know that the SR-007 is both technically and subjectively/musically the better pair of headphones. Indeed its midrange is it's strongest point.


----------



## Hun7er

michgelsen said:


> I fully agree. You need to give the SR-007 a bit of time on your head to really appreciate it. If you go quickly switching between Lambdas and the 007, you may feel that the Lambdas are better, because they're airier, throw a bigger soundstage and shove the details more in your face. Once the SR-007 settles in however, or your brain settles in, you'll know that the SR-007 is both technically and subjectively/musically the better pair of headphones. Indeed its midrange is it's strongest point.


 
  
 Michgelsen what is the serial of you BL ?


----------



## Michgelsen

Exactly 72000. Why, just curious?


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## Hun7er

Yes just curious. I just received an 71xxx BL.


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## Michgelsen

Nice! I think it's better looking than the brown ones, and the black mk2 pads look good on them too. It goes well with my black 717 as well.


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## NotaLefty

Thanks for the help everyone. Maybe this isn't the place for it - but would anyone be willing to do a temporary trade of systems? It would help this decision tremendously if I could listen to the SR-007 before fully investing in it.


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## Hun7er

I just take the SR007 over any HD800 rigs (WA5, Balancing Act...). To my ear SR007 seems more accurate and real tone and HD800 more artificial. Yes it doesn't have the wow effect but and you must listen for hours to fully appreciate. In fact it is very details but doesn't throw them, it is subtle.


----------



## Rossliew

purk said:


> I have not auditioned Birgir KGBH, but knowing that his favorite headphones is the SR007 then his KGBH should be a perfect match to the SR007.  Short of the T2, I'll take the BHSE (or probably Birgir KGBH) following by the full-szied KGSSHV 500V IXY parts b/c it is the more neutral/leaner of the two full-sized KGSSHV.  His KGSSHV mini is also able to drive the SR007 really well.  The KGST is certainly too lush sounding for the SR007 and it doesn't have the same driver control compared to the other mentioned amps.


 

 I find the 007 Mk II with the KGST pretty awesome - not sure if driver control is inadequate or not but am pretty curious about the KGSSHV. He seems to have several iterations of the HV - would the one with + 450V be preferred over the one with just 400V/8mA?


----------



## zolkis

SR-009 and SR-007 mods thread updated.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/754839/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods
 In summary, carbon foam pads discarded for the Stax, and 2 more pad types added, mainly for the 007.
  
 Both mods consists of 009 earpads (involving buying one for the 007 and modifying the existing one on the 009), where in the internal foam the lower 3mm thick white polyurethane part was replaced with 3mm wool felt ring. This mod also works on the 007 original pads, with less benefits than the 009 pads, which sound far better on the 007.
  
 As a result of the mod, on the 009 the bass and sound stage becomes better, and it remains the neutrality king of natural realism.
  
 The 007 becomes more open, bass and sound stage improved, and treble evened out while also being elevated a bit. This makes it very close to the 009, with a bit more warmth and more bass slam, at ~3 dB less sensitivity than the 009.


----------



## martin778

What can I use to reattach the earpads on a Lambda Nova?


----------



## astrostar59

I had the glue fail on mine (I live in Spain and it got warmer than maybe other climes).
  
 I used alcohol to remove the sticky residue on the leather and the frames (take care to use a soft cloth and dampen that
 with the alcohol, not put alcohol directly on the frames.
  
 Then I used thin double sided mirror pads cut to size. It stuck for 4 year no problems before I sold them.
  
 BTW the later pads like the 507 ones are better than the older LNS pads.


----------



## martin778

I have the cheaper ones, the Nova Basics and the glue failed not only on the earpads but also the drivers came loose...even the dust covers were about to fall off so I repaired everything with epoxy.
  
 Only the earpads are left and I don't think epoxy would be good to attach them


----------



## purk

rossliew said:


> I find the 007 Mk II with the KGST pretty awesome - not sure if driver control is inadequate or not but am pretty curious about the KGSSHV. He seems to have several iterations of the HV - would the one with + 450V be preferred over the one with just 400V/8mA?


 
 From my experience the KGSSHV 500V with IXY part do work the best with the SR007 among the several KGSSHVs I've tried.  I'm not sure what is the current on it.  The KGST is a fine sounding amp but the tonality of the amp does work better on the 009 than the 007.  What tube are you using on your KGST?  I've found the RCA to be a tad bright for the SR009 while the GE is great with it.  To think of it, the RCA tubes would probably work better with the SR007 though.


----------



## Rossliew

purk said:


> From my experience the KGSSHV 500V with IXY part do work the best with the SR007 among the several KGSSHVs I've tried.  I'm not sure what is the current on it.  The KGST is a fine sounding amp but the tonality of the amp does work better on the 009 than the 007.  What tube are you using on your KGST?  I've found the RCA to be a tad bright for the SR009 while the GE is great with it.  To think of it, the RCA tubes would probably work better with the SR007 though.


 
 Birgir doesn't seem to have any 500V HVs in his stable. Anyway, need to save up if indeed i plan to get one.
  
 As for the KGST's tubes, i've never really bothered to open the casing to check it out. I believe tube rolling in an e-stat amp is not so straightforward? I think Birgir mentioned before that any change of tubes may require re-biasing, which to me, is quite a hassle as I;ve never done it before. Most of my tube rolling experience has been on plug n play basis


----------



## NoPants

I imagine that's because Birgir has a large amount of 1968s in his possession, and those only work up to -/+ 450V. From a device perspective the IXYS would generally be considered inferior to the Sanyo
  
 If the tubes are reasonably well-matched there is no hassle when it comes to balancing the outputs and zeroing the offset on the KGST. There's also a servo to handle things.


----------



## georgep

Pretty sure Birgir uses IXYS as well. You would really need to clarify on any particular build whether he used IXYS or 1968. Guessing the on-board ones with the 450v or less and 8ma are IXYS versions because they have greater thermal drift than the 1968 while the amp is warming up. But again, you would need to confirm with Birgir.


----------



## NoPants

georgep said:


> Pretty sure Birgir uses IXYS as well. You would really need to clarify on any particular build whether he used IXYS or 1968. Guessing the on-board ones with the 450v or less and 8ma are IXYS versions because they have greater thermal drift than the 1968 while the amp is warming up. But again, you would need to confirm with Birgir.


 
 if they have higher thermal drift (which I myself have experienced with those parts @ 500V) why would he use them over the 1968s?


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks for the info guys. Will remember to double check with him when i'm ready to buy.


----------



## georgep

nopants said:


> if they have higher thermal drift (which I myself have experienced with those parts @ 500V) why would he use them over the 1968s?


 
  
 Because even with a higher thermal drift, which is really only a factor during warm-up, they are still 100% up to the task of the KGSSHV (whether on-board or off-board). Plus regardless of how many 1968s he may or may not have, they are unobtanium now (and worth between 4-5 times the IXYS part).


----------



## Earspeakers

Question for those who have a SR-009 and a SR-007, why both?


----------



## MacedonianHero

earspeakers said:


> Question for those who have a SR-009 and a SR-007, why both?


 
  
 Because both are wonderful headphones and I love owning both. They are different enough to justify having both; that said, I do prefer the SR-009s, but my SR-007Mk1s get a lot of head time too.


----------



## taddraughn

Im about to (hopefully at least) be joining the ranks of stax owners. The amp im looking at is the SRM-313, and has both normal and pro bias outputs, so it has the capability to drive both new and old stax earspeakers. However, I was wondering about the quality of this amp when paired with headphones that are better/more expensize than the SR-303 I plan to first use them with.
  
 Say i was to buy a SR-007 later on. Would this amp pair well with those headphones? I just want to future proof myself to some degree if possible


----------



## purk

earspeakers said:


> Question for those who have a SR-009 and a SR-007, why both?


 
 For me the SR009 & SR007 compliment one another really well.  The SR-009 is ultra revealing and super transparent nature can be bad for bad or bright recording.  The SR007 is much more forgiving and energetic thus making it a perfect compliment to the SR009.  I personally like the SR009 better on the KGSSHV & KGST, but the SR007 on the BHSE is just as good for less money.


----------



## Sorrodje

Hi,
  
 I have the SR-404 for 2 month now and after hours and hours of listening, I still have problems with its tonality. I really appreciate it for many things, it's fast and clean as I could expect from a stat , the soundstage is not great but it's good enough to be enjoyable for me ( I really dig HD800 or Abyss Soundstage capabilities) , I can even stand the Brightness  but I stil have problem with the slight midrange shout. Nothing really bothersome but I still find this upper midrange annoying , especially for Classical.  I'm currently using my Stax combo during hours and hours while my HD800 is at Colorware for a paint job.
  
 So after my HD800 will be back, I think I'll sell my SR-404. I need money to fund another DAC. but I would like to keep my SRM1-mkII
  
 Could you advice me a sidegrade in the lambda family ? . SIdegrade who does not have this upper midrange coloration ? . I don't want warmth and brightness is not a problem . for example, The ESP 950 is too soft/warm to my taste and I'm currently selling mine.
  
 I thought to the SR207 or SR507 ? is it good idea considering my experience with the SR404?  What could be the best option for me in the Lambda family ?
  
 I would really appreciate to keep a Stax combo in my CD rig


----------



## Michgelsen

sorrodje said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have the SR-404 for 2 month now and after hours and hours of listening, I still have problems with its tonality. (...) but I stil have problem with the slight midrange shout. (...)
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 The Lambda's I owned all had this weakness (202, 507, Lambda Signature). I would advise against a sidegrade to the 507. It would cost you a lot and won't solve your problem. I will be testing a 207 this weekend, but I'm pretty sure it does the same thing. It's a family trait I'm afraid.
 The only Lambda of which I've read a lot of good things about its midrange, is the original normal bias Lambda, but it's very old and a bit harder to come by second-hand. Disclaimer: haven't heard it myself. Your amp does have a normal bias output, right?
  
 If you really want a great midrange for classical, the 007 can deliver that. (Haven't heard the 009.)


----------



## Sorrodje

Yup my SRM1-mkII has a pro and normal bias output. Omegas are a bit expensive for a secondary rig. It would be an option If I decide to get rid of my HD800 but it's definitively not my plan as the Senn is still my favourite and most used headphone. I tried the 009 but not the 007 though but I doubt I'd prefer the 007 over the 009.
  
 I'd really appreciate to keep a Stat rig though. I really like a lot this specific kind of sound. I thought the Koss would be my best bet but I was wrong. I prefer the SR-404 despite this upper midrange slight shout.


----------



## rx79ez08

Try the Lambda Nova Signature, it is more neutral and would probably suit you more.
  
 If you like the HD800 you should probably also look into a Lambda Signature. It is probably one of the fastest and clearest sounding headphones around. It is quite like the HD800 that way, except with Stax sound throw in and not as lay back (not that HD800 is very lay back).
  
 I have a 407 and don't like it as much as I like the older Lambda. It seem to be more tuned like modern headphones and quite different to what other Lambda headphones sound like. Don't get me wrong it is still a pair of Stax, but at the same time it sounds a bit off and seem like something is not quite right with it. To me it sound a bit more muddy than other Stax with a little too much bass. The word on the street is the 507 use the same driver as the 407, but a different frame and ear pad.


----------



## Earspeakers

purk said:


> For me the SR009 & SR007 compliment one another really well.  The SR-009 is ultra revealing and super transparent nature can be bad for bad or bright recording.  The SR007 is much more forgiving and energetic thus making it a perfect compliment to the SR009.  I personally like the SR009 better on the KGSSHV & KGST, but the SR007 on the BHSE is just as good for less money.


 
  
 So do you mainly use one headphone versus another depending on the recording? That is do you have them connected to the same amp, and pull out one or another based on what you're listening to?
  


macedonianhero said:


> Because both are wonderful headphones and I love owning both. They are different enough to justify having both; that said, I do prefer the SR-009s, but my SR-007Mk1s get a lot of head time too.


 
  
 What makes you do one versus another, variety? That is do you pull out one or another depending on your mood or some such?

 Curious, thanks.


----------



## cucera

Since I have one of the first SR007 MK1 ever made I clearly prefere that headphone on my BHSE to any SR009 I had ever heared. But if Birgir is right there and there are more of the different toned 009 out here as he has one, that might change. Still curious hearing one of those. the last was from the first half this year and sounded on the BHSE as allways. I am aware this is audiophilia nervosa and splitting hair, because both are different flavours of the best.


----------



## edstrelow

sorrodje said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have the SR-404 for 2 month now and after hours and hours of listening, I still have problems with its tonality. I really appreciate it for many things, it's fast and clean as I could expect from a stat , the soundstage is not great but it's good enough to be enjoyable for me ( I really dig HD800 or Abyss Soundstage capabilities) , I can even stand the Brightness  but I stil have problem with the slight midrange shout. Nothing really bothersome but I still find this upper midrange annoying , especially for Classical.  I'm currently using my Stax combo during hours and hours while my HD800 is at Colorware for a paint job.
> 
> ...



Check out my sorbethane mod for the lambdas in this forum.  I found the modified 404 and LNS sounded better than my unmodified 007. $10 will get you a sheet of 1/8 in thick  40-50 duro self stick sorbothane on ebay

http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/damping-stax-phones-with-sorbothane-lambdas-srxiii-pro-sr003-sr007-and-finally-the-sigma


----------



## Michgelsen

sorrodje said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have the SR-404 for 2 month now and after hours and hours of listening, I still have problems with its tonality. I really appreciate it for many things, it's fast and clean as I could expect from a stat , the soundstage is not great but it's good enough to be enjoyable for me ( I really dig HD800 or Abyss Soundstage capabilities) , I can even stand the Brightness  but I stil have problem with the slight midrange shout. Nothing really bothersome but I still find this upper midrange annoying , especially for Classical.  I'm currently using my Stax combo during hours and hours while my HD800 is at Colorware for a paint job.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I just thought of another pair of headphones that might suit your taste really well: the Sennheiser HE60. Hard to come by and expensive when in good condition, but I absolutely loved its midrange for classical music, and its very airy presentation. It is bright though, but you said that's not a problem. It's a bit HD800-like.
  
 By the way, I disagree with rx79ez08: I think a Lambda Signature still wouldn't give you the midrange quality you're searching for.


----------



## Sorrodje

Dunno if I really l really look for a so specific midrange. I just would like something more neutral , less emphasized around 2 khz , less shouty.  The HE60 is like omegas... a bit expensive for what I really need right now.  If I had 1500€ to spend in a stat, I think I'd save more €€€ and purchase a SR009. 
  
 Indeed , I thought to try some mods of my 404. Spritzer mod or sorbothane why not. this Lambda seems easy to open and mod.
  
 I'll try a Lambda signature pro and a SR007 mkII  tomorrow. I'll give you some feedback if I have something interesting to say.


----------



## Earspeakers

Does anybody have a link for sanitary headphone covers for Stax 407's, and for 009's they like? I saw a review where the user felt they didn't change the sound at all, and would ward against sweat and wear which I think is a great idea.


----------



## s1rrah

sorrodje said:


> Dunno if I really l really look for a so specific midrange. I just would like something more neutral , less emphasized around 2 khz , less shouty.


 
  
 I know *exactly* what you mean when you talk about "shouty" midrange and specifically with the Lambdas (I've always thought of this as mid range "glare") ... my SR-404LE's are the least "shouty" in the mids that I've tried, especially with the Stax tube amps ... but my previous SR-307's were *really* bad ... it's always in particular female vocal areas and often times with classical piano music (especially classical piano music) and I've never really heard anybody describe it as well as you with that term (shouty).  It's a really fatiguing/annoying quality when it occurs...
  
 I've never heard the SR-507's and so I'm not sure how they fair in this regard ... but like I said, the SR-404LE's are the least problematic I've heard in regards to this...


----------



## pataburd

The SR-507, IMHE, can sound brittle or shouty in the upper midrange on some recordings.  At first, I thought it might be my amping [Woo WEE and Qinpu A-1.0X integrated].
 Aside from that, I am pretty happy with the timbres.  Bass extension could stand some improvement, although I deem the overall bass impact ample/adequate.  Uber HF resolution/balance could also stand some improvement [for my tastes, anyway--not the "last word" in transparency].
 Drums are a real treat with the 507!


----------



## ericfarrell85

How are the 507's with rock, specifically recordings that are not the pinnacle of recording quality?


----------



## MacedonianHero

earspeakers said:


> What makes you do one versus another, variety? That is do you pull out one or another depending on your mood or some such?
> 
> Curious, thanks.


 
  
 Depends on the recording...if it's a poorer one, then I reach for my SR-007s more often than my SR-009s. Plus variety is the spice of life...and since I've been happily married for 19 years now (all to the same woman), I need a little variety in my audio at least.


----------



## NotaLefty

Just took the plunge and bought a pair of 007 MKII's....now the wait begins!


----------



## Leporello

sorrodje said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have the SR-404 for 2 month now and after hours and hours of listening, I still have problems with its tonality. I really appreciate it for many things, it's fast and clean as I could expect from a stat , the soundstage is not great but it's good enough to be enjoyable for me ( I really dig HD800 or Abyss Soundstage capabilities) , I can even stand the Brightness  but I stil have problem with the slight midrange shout. Nothing really bothersome but I still find this upper midrange annoying , especially for Classical.  I'm currently using my Stax combo during hours and hours while my HD800 is at Colorware for a paint job.
> 
> ...


 
 Try some eq - even if it is not an audiophile approved solution. 2 - 3 db down around 1 - 2 Khz region tamed the shoutiness nicely in my SR-303's.
  
 Regards,
  
 L.


----------



## Sorrodje

leporello said:


> Try some eq - even if it is not an audiophile approved solution. 2 - 3 db down around 1 - 2 Khz region tamed the shoutiness nicely in my SR-303's.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> L.


 
  
 Good advice indeed but I prefer not to use Eq. I know myself and I would be mad enough to spend my time to try to set eq instead of listening to my music 
  
  
 Briefly tried the Lambda Signature pro today. The etch is still there but less than with my SR404. I found the lambda signature pro much more open and airy too. I've really appreciated this Lambda. Take this with a big grain of salt I tried it very briefly.


----------



## NotaLefty

What is the cheapest amp (diy or otherwise) that will be suitable with the 007? I'm not really sure what the differences between the different electrostatic amps are.


----------



## NoPants

srm 323s


----------



## NotaLefty

nopants said:


> srm 323s


 That is the amp I am planning to get, just wondering what the alternatives may be. I was doing some reading and saw that people said that the 323s is not powerful enough for the 007, leaving it with a weak and loose bass.


----------



## HemiSam

You got a solid answer to the question you posed.  Slippery slope...
  
  




  
 HS


----------



## Failed Engineer

The 007 definitely sounds like a 007 from the 323.  It's a little sleepy and lazy for my taste, but still sounds really really good driven by it.
  
 I wouldn't bother with anything in the price range between a 323 and a KGSSHV for an 007.  There's just not that much improvement until you hit the KGSSHV.


----------



## ericfarrell85

failed engineer said:


> The 007 definitely sounds like a 007 from the 323.  It's a little sleepy and lazy for my taste, but still sounds really really good driven by it.
> 
> I wouldn't bother with anything in the price range between a 323 and a KGSSHV for an 007.  There's just not that much improvement until you hit the KGSSHV.




A KGSS is between the two and a substantial improvement over the 323 (not to mention a safer match with the 009 than the HV).


----------



## NotaLefty

How would an SRD7-Pro (with a Cambridge AM10) do with the 007 in comparison to the 323s?


----------



## Downrange

notalefty said:


> What is the cheapest amp (diy or otherwise) that will be suitable with the 007? I'm not really sure what the differences between the different electrostatic amps are.


 
 Not the cheapest, but the best price point is probably the SRM-007Tii.  Blows the 323 out of the water, and also bests the transistor 727s I've heard.  They can be had used, for U.S. voltage in the 1500 dollar range.  The nearest thing to it is the Blue Hawaii at many times more money.  The KGSS is OK, but you will lose midrange detail compared with the tube amp from Stax.


----------



## purk

failed engineer said:


> The 007 definitely sounds like a 007 from the 323.  It's a little sleepy and lazy for my taste, but still sounds really really good driven by it.
> 
> I wouldn't bother with anything in the price range between a 323 and a KGSSHV for an 007.  There's just not that much improvement until you hit the KGSSHV.


 
 I agree with this.  For the price is the 323S is a great place to start.  It is very neutral and work well with the Lambda, SR007 MKI, and even the SR009.  I had the T1W in the past and from what I understand it isn't much different than the Stock SRM-007II and the 323S should better it especially with the SR007 MKI.  The SRM-717 is also a really good amp for the Omega II.  Its is a little more resolved sounding than the 323S and able to portray deeper and more layered soundstage compared to the 323S.  However its tonality maybe too dark for some owners and it is twice the price of the 323S in a used market.  Heck I think the 717 is one of the darkest (but very smooth) sounding amp Stax ever made.  I would not touch the SRM-727ii unless it is mod especially if you want to use it with the SR007 MKI.  The SR007 MKI really opened up and able to compete with the best of best when paired with full-size KGSSHVs though .  The KGST is also able to drive the SR007 very well but the KGSSHV just is a better match IMO.


----------



## Amarphael

I dont agree on the consensus of the 323S+007 pairing. the amp maybe very neutral but the end result was not nearly as linear as i hear out of the KGSS. The Omega2 load is just too big for this little amp and the sound turns out very colored and syropy, especially the bass, but the lower midrange somewhere is also pushed forward which makes for a congested presentation. 
 SRM-717 is the very minimum  IMO.


----------



## purk

amarphael said:


> I dont agree on the consensus of the 323S+007 pairing. the amp maybe very neutral but the end result was not nearly as linear as i hear out of the KGSS. The Omega2 load is just too big for this little amp and the sound turns out very colored and syropy, especially the bass, but the lower midrange somewhere is also pushed forward which makes for a congested presentation.
> SRM-717 is the very minimum  IMO.




I agree with you but you are talking about twice or not triple the price here. I am simply saying that the 323s is a really good little amp that is also able to drive the 007 well, tho not optimum. The difference between the 323s and 717 isn't as large as u think as I compared the two side by side before. Yes I liked the 717 better and sold the 323s afterward but the 717 is at least $400 more than the 323s if you are lucky to find one.


----------



## David1961

If I was looking for another stats amp ( which I am eventually ) then I'd look on Birgir's website ( Mjolnir-Audio.com ).
Yes the ones he's selling are more expensive than the 323, but he has one that's going for $1200.
 I don't know how the 007's would sound driven by that amp, but I'm sure Birgir would say if asked.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

A re-capped SRM-1/mk2 pro may also be a good choice for lower bucks, not so different from 323S as far as I know.

 Ali


----------



## Rossliew

david1961 said:


> If I was looking for another stats amp ( which I am eventually ) then I'd look on Birgir's website ( Mjolnir-Audio.com ).
> Yes the ones he's selling are more expensive than the 323, but he has one that's going for $1200.
> I don't know how the 007's would sound driven by that amp, but I'm sure Birgir would say if asked.


 

 Here's Birgir's feedback on using the dual differential tube amp to drive the 007s :
  
"The dual diff amp can drive the 007’s but it is limited in power compared to the KGST.  It will sound a bit looser and warmer but better than any of the stock Stax amps.  Nothing to adjust in this one so just install new tubes as you’d see fit." 
  
It's good for tube rollers too - no bias adjustment each time you roll tubes


----------



## subtle

I wish PriceJapan had a better reputation because that current price ($2879) has me wanting to place an order today.
  
 Does anyone know of an authorized seller in the States that has a price close to that?


----------



## theboch

subtle said:


> I wish PriceJapan had a better reputation because that current price ($2879) has me wanting to place an order today.
> 
> Does anyone know of an authorized seller in the States that has a price close to that?


 
  
 Better reputation?
  
 I just had my SR-009 and a 727 amp delivered a few weeks ago. Everything was perfect.


----------



## subtle

theboch said:


> Better reputation?
> 
> I just had my SR-009 and a 727 amp delivered a few weeks ago. Everything was perfect.


 
  
 Well that's great news then.  I've read quite a bit of negative feedback in this thread over the last few months from people having bad experiences with them.
  
 I assume if they ever needed to be serviced and/or have a warranty issue that they have to back through PriceJapan, or would we be able to ship them directly to Stax?


----------



## theboch

subtle said:


> I assume if they ever needed to be serviced and/or have a warranty issue that they have to back through PriceJapan, or would we be able to ship them directly to Stax?


 
  
 Yes thats absolutely correct and everyone should be aware of this fact before doing a grey import.
  
 And this is not PriceJapan's fault - they are only a buying/shipping agent and at that they are great!
  
 Also the warranty in Japan is only 1 year.
  
 I think most of the "bad" feedback for PriceJapan was in correlation with warranty issues...


----------



## zolkis

notalefty said:


> What is the cheapest amp (diy or otherwise) that will be suitable with the 007? I'm not really sure what the differences between the different electrostatic amps are.


 
  
 An SRD-7 Pro connected to a good speaker amp was quite much better with my 007 than the 323s (which in turn worked nicely with the 507).
 Or get a better transformer solution (e.g. Verto box). The quality of the speaker amp is essential, and if you don't already have a good one, then I would recommend a real amp: a KGST, KGSSHV or BHSE. One could also modify a Stax amp, e.g. improve the power supply and the volume control of the 323s. Modifying the more expensive Stax amps would land near the second-hand prices of the Kevin Gilmore amps.


----------



## NotaLefty

zolkis said:


> An SRD-7 Pro connected to a good speaker amp was quite much better with my 007 than the 323s (which in turn worked nicely with the 507).
> Or get a better transformer solution (e.g. Verto box). The quality of the speaker amp is essential, and if you don't already have a good one, then I would recommend a real amp: a KGST, KGSSHV or BHSE. One could also modify a Stax amp, e.g. improve the power supply and the volume control of the 323s. Modifying the more expensive Stax amps would land near the second-hand prices of the Kevin Gilmore amps.


 My speaker amp is a Cambridge Audio Topaz AM10. The SRD7-PRO and 007's should be arriving tomorrow. Is that amp enough do you think?


----------



## mulveling

theboch said:


> Yes thats absolutely correct and everyone should be aware of this fact before doing a grey import.
> 
> And this is not PriceJapan's fault - they are only a buying/shipping agent and at that they are great!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Agree; PriceJapan is just a bare-bones middleman, but they're excellent at it. The 5% fee is incredibly small, and for that they do provide excellent value/service. It's hard to ignore PJ when the Yen exchange rate is favorable. Over the years I've bought three 2K+ items from them; items always shipped fast and arrived problem-free. The SR-009 early failures are very concerning for sure, but I'd be surprised if this affected more than say 3% of new stock (i.e. it's a reasonable gamble). And the US distributor doesn't exactly have a great reputation towards providing additional value (for that ~$1.5K markup) in terms of support.


----------



## zolkis

notalefty said:


> My speaker amp is a Cambridge Audio Topaz AM10. The SRD7-PRO and 007's should be arriving tomorrow. Is that amp enough do you think?


 
  
 I don't know that amp, but the SRD-7 has limitations itself, so it may be good enough. I have used a PrimaLuna Prologue 2 with Valve Art EL34 tubes, and a Leben CS300. I have also used a prototype 100W transistor amp with circlotron circuit, and that was better than the tubed designs, despite the slightly smaller sound stage. I will try an expensive GaN design with a special transformer solution, but the price is already close to the Gilmore amps, so if you won't be happy with the SRD7 and your amp, you may need to invest in a Gilmore amp - as also other have pointed out.
  
 I also recommend getting the 009 ear pads for the 007 - see http://www.head-fi.org/t/754839/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods .


----------



## Lan647

downrange said:


> Not the cheapest, but the best price point is probably the SRM-007Tii.  Blows the 323 out of the water, and also bests the transistor 727s I've heard.  They can be had used, for U.S. voltage in the 1500 dollar range.  The nearest thing to it is the Blue Hawaii at many times more money.  The KGSS is OK, but you will lose midrange detail compared with the tube amp from Stax.




No, the 007TII is not a good match for the SR-007. Not enough power.


----------



## astrostar59

lan647 said:


> No, the 007TII is not a good match for the SR-007. Not enough power.


 
 I agree, the 007TII and the older variations of will not drive the 007s well at all. Only if you listen really low in level, it starts to get strained and compressed real quick.
  
 I would look at at KGSShv built by a decent DIYer, or a Birgir built amp. Also the KGST is getting good feedback from those who have built one or bought one built for them.
  
 Basically, if you want your 007s to sing, look beyond the Stax amps IMO. My 717 is sort of OK with my previous 007s and my current 009s, but it is cold, compressed, lacking warmth or realism, too synthetic and strained, small soundstage. The Stax amps are ok built for the price (50% markup probably). But IMO the 717 beats the tube amps from Stax, unless again you listen to low levels and classical. There again, classical has wild dynamic swings..... Get a DIY, better sound, more value for money. Or if you have deep pockets, the BHSE.


----------



## pataburd

ericfarrell85 said:


> How are the 507's with rock, specifically recordings that are not the pinnacle of recording quality?


 
 Eric,
 Listened to Supertramp and Loggins and Messina last night.
 Not the worst, but not the best recordings, either.
 Still getting uncomfortably bright upper mids/lower treble with the Stax/Woo WEE.
 For less-than-stellar R&R recordings, the Oppo PM-1 with velour earpads and paired with the Lehmann BCL EASILY better--in fact, they "clobber"-- the Stax SR-507 paired with the Woo WEE/Qinpu A-1.0X integrated.
 Color me unimpressed with the SR-507 thus far.  Nice speed, adequate detail, decent extension, but a bit too sharp with less-than-stellar recordings.  So-so soundstage (the K812 do notably better paired with the [modded] hybrid Bada PH-12).  
 If I don't undergo a radical transformation after further headtime with the SR-507, I am returning to my PM-1 and/or K812 and/or Mikros 90.  
 I am currently listening to ELO via the [modded] Martin Logan Mikros 90 paired with the unassuming KMF amp and an older Oppo DVD player.  A lot more enjoyable than the SR-507, too.
 Lastly, from what I recall from my short-lived and defect-spoiled experience with the KingSound H-03/M-10 electrostatics gear, I would prefer the KingSound to the Stax as well.  The KS impressed me as being more transparent, more detailed and better balanced overall.


----------



## NoPants

Wasn't the original question asking for the cheapest amplifier that could do a satisfactory job? 
  
 I don't know what kind of reading resources are out there but from what I've read, built, etc. it goes something like
  
 Below srm 323s: 313, 252, 212, xh, some other amplifiers I'm probably missing
  
 Above srm 323s: srm 717 (?), 727 (with/without FB mods), KGSS, KGSSHV, KGST, KGcarbon, KGcirclotron, BH, BHSE, T2, Megatron, BATE, etc.
  
 I would pass over the 007t/etc. amplifiers unless you're willing to change from 6cg7 tubes to 6s4a's, at which point they become KGST's, or KGST's with resistive loads? Someone smarter can chime in
  
 There are probably still some amplifiers I'm missing on top of this, because I don't keep up with other manufacturers. Should give someone an idea of where things fall as far *specifically within the context of driving the 007*.
  
  
  
 Feel free to shift things around to whatever is hip these days


----------



## NotaLefty

What about the Woo Audio amps? How do they fit into the rankings?


----------



## Downrange

The prejudice on this forum against the Stax flagship amp is amazing!  How loud do you listen to your music, anyway?  The SRM007Tii simply blew away the KGSS I owned.  I've been living with this amp since 2009.  It is absolutely a GREAT choice with the Omega IIs, unless all you listen to is hard rock at high volumes.  
 I'll admit freely I like to listen to classical and soft jazz more than hard rock.  There are very few occasions where the Omega IIs were driven into distortion through the "inadequate" voltage swings of the Stax flagship amplifier. 
 I ran through the gamut in shaking this out. I had the Stax converter box that you use an amp with (SRD-7, or something like that), it sucked big time, even with multi-kilobuck amps,  compared with the delicacy and resolution of the electrostatic headphone amp that was MADE FOR THESE HEADPHONES.
  
 Give the Stax flagship a chance - unless your eardrums have been badly damaged from listening to a beggar's banquet of sorry rock recordings, you'll appreciate what they do for these great headphones.  Oh, and if you want to hear what good rock should sound like - give a listen to some truly well-mastered rock like Wilco.


----------



## greggf

I agree with Downrange.  The 007tII is fabulous, as long as you aren't into loud, loud rock. 
  
 The prejudice is either clearly loud volume issues-related, as even Tyll points out at Innerfidelity, or else it's just the urge to DIY/mod/seek something "more perfect".  Which, btw, is great, and I do to a certain extent myself.
  
 But geez, at moderate/normal/safe listening volumes the 007tII is wonderful.


----------



## HemiSam

Wilco counts as rock?
  
  
  





  
 HS


----------



## wink

Quote:HemiSam 





> Wilco counts as rock?


 
 Nah....!
  
 This counts a ROCK....!!!


----------



## purk

nopants said:


> Wasn't the original question asking for the cheapest amplifier that could do a satisfactory job?
> 
> I don't know what kind of reading resources are out there but from what I've read, built, etc. it goes something like
> 
> ...


 
 I am pretty much on board with your ranking.  However, I'll drop the stock 727 even below the 323S unless it is modded.  The T1S/T1W is not as good at driving the SR007 compared to the 323S either.  The T1S/T1W is probably better at driving lambdas though.


----------



## David1961

I wonder how much Stax amps would be, if they could be bought directly from Stax, with no Distributor and Retailer taking their share ( I've nothing against Retailers because IMO in most cases they are needed, Distributors ? )


----------



## theboch

Well the price in Japan for end-customers is already only 1/3 of the prices in Europe for example... that gives you a direction


----------



## purk

david1961 said:


> I wonder how much Stax amps would be, if they could be bought directly from Stax, with no Distributor and Retailer taking their share ( I've nothing against Retailers because IMO in most cases they are needed, Distributors ? )


 
 I'm sure but Birgir can chime in.  In any event, their case work beside the front face plate are not too great.  The paint job are prone to scratches and blemishes.  The parts used are are more economical compared to the one commonly used in DIY amp such as the KGSS, and KGST.


----------



## Sorrodje

purk said:


> I am pretty much on board with your ranking.  However, I'll drop the stock 727 even below the 323S unless it is modded.  The T1S/T1W is not as good at driving the SR007 compared to the 323S either.  The T1S/T1W is probably better at driving lambdas though.


 
  
 For my own : where does sit my SRM1-mk2 in the ranking ?


----------



## n3rdling

I listen at pretty low volumes to a number of genres that aren't rock, and I don't think the 007t is a good pairing with the 007 particularly.


----------



## Lan647

downrange said:


> The prejudice on this forum against the Stax flagship amp is amazing!  How loud do you listen to your music, anyway?  The SRM007Tii simply blew away the KGSS I owned.  I've been living with this amp since 2009.  It is absolutely a GREAT choice with the Omega IIs, unless all you listen to is hard rock at high volumes.
> I'll admit freely I like to listen to classical and soft jazz more than hard rock.  There are very few occasions where the Omega IIs were driven into distortion through the "inadequate" voltage swings of the Stax flagship amplifier.
> I ran through the gamut in shaking this out. I had the Stax converter box that you use an amp with (SRD-7, or something like that), it sucked big time, even with multi-kilobuck amps,  compared with the delicacy and resolution of the electrostatic headphone amp that was MADE FOR THESE HEADPHONES.
> 
> Give the Stax flagship a chance - unless your eardrums have been badly damaged from listening to a beggar's banquet of sorry rock recordings, you'll appreciate what they do for these great headphones.  Oh, and if you want to hear what good rock should sound like - give a listen to some truly well-mastered rock like Wilco.




Not saying it's not a good amp, but in my experience it just can't drive the 007 well. It can drive the 009 pretty well, but not the 007. Through the STAX tube amps the 007 sounds veiled/slow and not very controlled in the bass.


----------



## DolphinG

I recently got a STAX SR-1.. very vintage headphone as you all know.
 The problem is I don't know its bias voltage.
 I heard that its bias voltage changed from 150V to 200V.
 I think that it will be OK to connect 200V version SR-1 to Normal bias output. (which I know as 230V)
 However is it OK to test with Normal bias output, if it's one of the first ones ever made? (150V)
  
 Also, as this headphone does not have earpad, I have to get one.
 It looks very hard to get original earpad for SR-1, so I am trying to use earpad for SR-3/5.
 I saw photos of SR-1 taken by Spritzer, and I if pad for SR-3/5 can easily be applied to SR-1 or should be modified specially for this one.
 Is there is anyone who can help me with this problem?


----------



## David1961

I did have the SRM-007t driving the SR-007mk1's for 11 years, and was never happy with how that amp drove those Earspeakers, I only kept that amp for so long because of my income, as soon as I had some money saved though, I ordered the BHSE.
Letting that Stax amp go didn't bother me one bit, and after hearing the BHSE and KGSSHV with both the 007 and 009, I'd never get another Stax amp, unless maybe they were to start building the SRM-T2, but if they did it would probably be very expensive.


----------



## astrostar59

Hmm, I think you need to get a clean DAC source and a decent power amp to drive your Stax before bailing IMO. The other phones may be more forgiving / less revealing, but the get the Stax magic you NEED a clean front end and decent amp.
  
 True in every sense, the 507s and earlier Lambda models are not the most forgiving headphones. I never had a problem with the treble as I always used tube front ends, but the bass was a bit lacking. The 007s and of course the 009s are in another league. The current 507 though is a good compromise re cost v performance, and gets you some of the Stax magic without breaking the bank.
  
 The Stax 717 can drive the 507s really well and can be had second hand for 900 US or less. Lower Stax amps are so so, the Stax tube amps are not my favourites. Don't give up yet, audio nirvana awaits with the right front end.
  
 If money is tight I would do this:
 507s + SRM-717 (second hand) + Non Over Sampling DAC (Audio Note Kit or Lampizator).
  
 Actually if you bought the Audio Note DAC 3.1 Kit at 2000 US and a second hand 717 you would be all set for less than 3k US. Amazing sound at that point.


----------



## NoPants

downrange said:


> The prejudice on this forum against the Stax flagship amp is amazing!  How loud do you listen to your music, anyway?  The SRM007Tii simply blew away the KGSS I owned.  I've been living with this amp since 2009.  It is absolutely a GREAT choice with the Omega IIs, unless all you listen to is hard rock at high volumes.
> I'll admit freely I like to listen to classical and soft jazz more than hard rock.  There are very few occasions where the Omega IIs were driven into distortion through the "inadequate" voltage swings of the Stax flagship amplifier.
> I ran through the gamut in shaking this out. I had the Stax converter box that you use an amp with (SRD-7, or something like that), it sucked big time, even with multi-kilobuck amps,  compared with the delicacy and resolution of the electrostatic headphone amp that was MADE FOR THESE HEADPHONES.
> 
> Give the Stax flagship a chance - unless your eardrums have been badly damaged from listening to a beggar's banquet of sorry rock recordings, you'll appreciate what they do for these great headphones.  Oh, and if you want to hear what good rock should sound like - give a listen to some truly well-mastered rock like Wilco.


 
 It's not really prejudice, just that the amplifier uses the wrong tubes by default. It's been documented elsewhere.
  
 The DIY efforts generally bubble up to the top because kevin and spritzer don't spare expense when it comes to their designs. It's hard to compete when commercial offerings are built to a specific price point.


----------



## NotaLefty

Can anyone comment on how the Woo GES perfoms?


----------



## n3rdling

The GES is a very good amp for the price.  In that price range (it was ~1600 last I checked), it and the modded 727 are no brainers.  People looking to get the 007t may want to check out the GES instead, just don't bother with the upgrades.


----------



## rgs9200m

lan647 said:


> No, the 007TII is not a good match for the SR-007. Not enough power.


 
 I agree. (I had this combo for 7 years when the 007 was first introduced.) With the SR009 it's a different story, far better, like a completely different amp.


----------



## Lan647

rgs9200m said:


> I agree. (I had this combo for 7 years when the 007 was first introduced.) With the SR009 it's a different story, far better, like a completely different amp.




Yep, the SR-009 is no heavier on the amplifier than the recent lambda series.


----------



## Sorrodje

michgelsen said:


> I will be testing a 207 this weekend, but I'm pretty sure it does the same thing. It's a family trait I'm afraid.


 
  
  
 Looking forward your impressions. I trade my 404 for a 307 during the next days and would be pleased to cross my own impressions with yours 
  


rx79ez08 said:


> Try the Lambda Nova Signature, it is more neutral and would probably suit you more.
> 
> If you like the HD800 you should probably also look into a Lambda Signature. It is probably one of the fastest and clearest sounding headphones around. It is quite like the HD800 that way, except with Stax sound throw in and not as lay back (not that HD800 is very lay back).


 
  
 Spot on !  I really appreciated the Lambda Signature pro I tried. Stil this etch but much less in my face with a great airy and wide presentation.  I wonder if the Lambda pro could provide a similar experience ?
  
 F.ck... I'm afraid to be affected by the stat bug 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . My wallet just proclaimed its independance and left the house to seek asylum in a safer place.


----------



## rx79ez08

dolphing said:


> I recently got a STAX SR-1.. very vintage headphone as you all know.
> The problem is I don't know its bias voltage.
> I heard that its bias voltage changed from 150V to 200V.
> I think that it will be OK to connect 200V version SR-1 to Normal bias output. (which I know as 230V)
> ...


 
  
 What are you planning to drive the SR-1 with? If you are using a SRM-1 MK2 with normal bias then the bias voltage is somewhere between 150 - 160 V, which should be fine for all intend and purpose. I was checking the bias voltage on my unit a few days ago, and it was lower than I expected. The pro socket bias voltage is about 350 V in case anyone is wondering.
  
 If you got a multimeter just check the voltage yourself. With a Stax amp you can do that by checking the voltage between the center pin of the normal bias socket and the ground terminal at the back of the amp. Just make sure you don't electrocute yourself in the process, best thing to do is to setup both probes then power the amp up without touching the probes.
  
 Where did you find the SR-1?


----------



## DolphinG

rx79ez08 said:


> What are you planning to drive the SR-1 with? If you are using a SRM-1 MK2 with normal bias then the bias voltage is somewhere between 150 - 160 V, which should be fine for all intend and purpose. I was checking the bias voltage on my unit a few days ago, and it was lower than I expected. The pro socket bias voltage is about 350 V in case anyone is wondering.
> 
> If you got a multimeter just check the voltage yourself. With a Stax amp you can do that by checking the voltage between the center pin of the normal bias socket and the ground terminal at the back of the amp. Just make sure you don't electrocute yourself in the process, best thing to do is to setup both probes then power the amp up without touching the probes.
> 
> Where did you find the SR-1?


 
  
 Well, I only have SRM-X PRO to drive normal bias electrostatic, so I should try SR-1 with it.
 I wonder if it would be OK to use SRM-X PRO for it.. as I do not have adequate equipment to measure bias voltage.
 I've got it from Japan, and it does not have earpad, so I'm trying to replace it with earpad for SR-3/5.
 Here is photo of it.
 I should take more picture of it later.
  
 .


----------



## Michgelsen

rx79ez08 said:


> What are you planning to drive the SR-1 with? If you are using a SRM-1 MK2 with normal bias then the bias voltage is somewhere between 150 - 160 V, which should be fine for all intend and purpose. I was checking the bias voltage on my unit a few days ago, and it was lower than I expected. The pro socket bias voltage is about 350 V in case anyone is wondering.
> 
> If you got a multimeter just check the voltage yourself. With a Stax amp you can do that by checking the voltage between the center pin of the normal bias socket and the ground terminal at the back of the amp. Just make sure you don't electrocute yourself in the process, best thing to do is to setup both probes then power the amp up without touching the probes.
> 
> Where did you find the SR-1?


 
  
 No you cannot check the bias voltage this way. This has been explained many times before, but of course people can't be expected to read all (old) Stax-related threads, so here you go: http://www.head-fi.org/t/447304/stax-srm-1-mk-2-pro-bias-voltages-only-measuring-350v


----------



## Earspeakers

michgelsen said:


> No you cannot check the bias voltage this way. This has been explained many times before, but of course people can't be expected to read all (old) Stax-related threads, so here you go: http://www.head-fi.org/t/447304/stax-srm-1-mk-2-pro-bias-voltages-only-measuring-350v


 

 I don't know the details of the SRM-1, but wouldn't using a high voltage (i.e. higher impedance) probe do the same thing and be easier and safer? I'm talking something like the Fluke 80k-6.


----------



## rx79ez08

michgelsen said:


> No you cannot check the bias voltage this way. This has been explained many times before, but of course people can't be expected to read all (old) Stax-related threads, so here you go: http://www.head-fi.org/t/447304/stax-srm-1-mk-2-pro-bias-voltages-only-measuring-350v


 

 You are right, the bias voltage is applied open circuit.


----------



## kevin gilmore

no it is not an open circuit.
  
 It is the impedance of air over that distance.
 Its several hundred megohms.
  
 There are voltmeters with 1G input impedance, and these
 work just fine.
  
 Or measure the bias before the 5M or 10M resistor


----------



## wink

Quote:Earspeakers 





> I don't know the details of the SRM-1, but wouldn't using a high voltage (i.e. higher impedance) probe do the same thing and be easier and safer? I'm talking something like the Fluke 80k-6.


 
 Yes, they have an input impedance of 1 Gigohm.


----------



## Earspeakers

wink said:


> Yes, they have an input impedance of 1 Gigohm.


 
  
 Right! Anybody testing Stax voltages should get one, with the long handle and safety ground it's much safer. 
  


kevin gilmore said:


> no it is not an open circuit.
> 
> It is the impedance of air over that distance.
> Its several hundred megohms.


 
  
 I don't grok this. What air over what distance? I thought he surely is measuring at the Stax sockets. Further the resistivity of air is 10E23 ohms meter approximately, far above a few hundred MOhms. I believe what he's really seeing is that the lower impedance of the DVM excessively loads the output which can't supply much current, so the voltage droops. But again I'm not familiar with the circuit in question.


----------



## kevin gilmore

the resistance of the headphones measured at the headphones, disconnected
and discharged is something like 700 megohms. Mainly due to typically
30% relative humidity plus other particulates.


----------



## NotaLefty

Just received my SR-007 and SRD7-Pro after what seemed like a years wait. 
  
 A few issues... I can't seem to get a good seal on the bottom of the pads, and there is a really bad crackling coming from both drivers. Any ideas?


----------



## NotaLefty

notalefty said:


> Just received my SR-007 and SRD7-Pro after what seemed like a years wait.
> 
> A few issues... I can't seem to get a good seal on the bottom of the pads, and there is a really bad crackling coming from both drivers. Any ideas?


 
 Nevermind, everything fixed itself. Happy listening


----------



## Earspeakers

kevin gilmore said:


> the resistance of the headphones measured at the headphones, disconnected
> and discharged is something like 700 megohms. Mainly due to typically
> 30% relative humidity plus other particulates.


 

 How so? The scalar _resistance_ of a capacitor should be effectively infinite, 10E23 or some variant. The complex _impedance_ is another matter of course. I just measured my 307's and get no resistance measurement (insulator, effectively infinite) as I would expect. 
  
 So I'm corn-fused (as my advisor used to say in grad school) as to what you mean here.


----------



## walakalulu

downrange said:


> The prejudice on this forum against the Stax flagship amp is amazing!  How loud do you listen to your music, anyway?  The SRM007Tii simply blew away the KGSS I owned.  I've been living with this amp since 2009.  It is absolutely a GREAT choice with the Omega IIs, unless all you listen to is hard rock at high volumes.
> I'll admit freely I like to listen to classical and soft jazz more than hard rock.  There are very few occasions where the Omega IIs were driven into distortion through the "inadequate" voltage swings of the Stax flagship amplifier.
> I ran through the gamut in shaking this out. I had the Stax converter box that you use an amp with (SRD-7, or something like that), it sucked big time, even with multi-kilobuck amps,  compared with the delicacy and resolution of the electrostatic headphone amp that was MADE FOR THESE HEADPHONES.
> 
> Give the Stax flagship a chance - unless your eardrums have been badly damaged from listening to a beggar's banquet of sorry rock recordings, you'll appreciate what they do for these great headphones.  Oh, and if you want to hear what good rock should sound like - give a listen to some truly well-mastered rock like Wilco.


 

 Agreed. I find the Kimik modded Stax amp just fine with the 009's unless you want to blow your ears off. If you really need gut thumping bass, buy some speakers. Experience tells me a decent design with cost effective parts can best a fair design with top specd inards.


----------



## Lan647

In my experience, you will achieve quite satisfying results with the 009 using the better STAX tube amps... on low to medium volume. When you crank it up a bit (and I'm still talking comfortably loud here, not ear-bleeding levels of insanity) it sounds as if the amp runs out of steam. It starts to sound kind of strained and the bass doesn't seem to get louder or weightier anymore.

So while one can certainly make do with a STAX amp for the 009, it's not optimal. Same goes with the current gen x07 Lambdas, really.

With the SR-007, you can forget about the STAX tube amps. It's a far heavier headphone to drive than the 009. A 323 is better in that case.


----------



## preproman

If I was waiting for a TOTL stats amp to be built.  Would the WOO GES be a good stop gap for the money $1500 or so?


----------



## Hun7er

Does anybody had compared an Headamp KGSS vs KGSSHV 450 volts Sanyo parts ?


----------



## gilency

downrange said:


> The prejudice on this forum against the Stax flagship amp is amazing!  How loud do you listen to your music, anyway?  The SRM007Tii simply blew away the KGSS I owned.  I've been living with this amp since 2009.  It is absolutely a GREAT choice with the Omega IIs, unless all you listen to is hard rock at high volumes.
> I'll admit freely I like to listen to classical and soft jazz more than hard rock.  There are very few occasions where the Omega IIs were driven into distortion through the "inadequate" voltage swings of the Stax flagship amplifier.
> I ran through the gamut in shaking this out. I had the Stax converter box that you use an amp with (SRD-7, or something like that), it sucked big time, even with multi-kilobuck amps,  compared with the delicacy and resolution of the electrostatic headphone amp that was MADE FOR THESE HEADPHONES.
> 
> Give the Stax flagship a chance - unless your eardrums have been badly damaged from listening to a beggar's banquet of sorry rock recordings, you'll appreciate what they do for these great headphones.  Oh, and if you want to hear what good rock should sound like - give a listen to some truly well-mastered rock like Wilco.


 
 Is not they don't sound good. They do, only not as good as DIY alternatives.
 The Megatron sounds even better than the KGSSHV, which sounds better than Stax amps. For one, may be that could be a reason to get some of you into DIY.
 Nothing equals the satisfaction of building your own.


----------



## Downrange

For me, it's a question of the price point.  As I've posted, I had an early KGSS that did _some_ things better than the SRM007Tii.  I extensively a/b'ed both with all kinds of music I listened to at the time, and I chose the Stax to keep.  Both amps at the time costed about the same.  At the time I could have gotten a BHSE for much less than they cost now, with less wait than now.  But, even then, it was several thousand more dollars to put into what is, after all a headphone system.  If money were no object, I'd have several expensive amps and a couple more pair of Stax phones.  Choices, folks.
  
 For my money, the 007Tii gets a bad rap here that is undeserved.  The Head-Fi meme is that it's inadequate for its intended purpose; some of us here disagree.  It is the amp Stax sold then (and now) to be used with the best headphones they make.  Critical listening has revealed to me it's up to the task, for me, and with the music I like most.  That's it.


----------



## astrostar59

downrange said:


> For me, it's a question of the price point.  As I've posted, I had an early KGSS that did _some_ things better than the SRM007Tii.  I extensively a/b'ed both with all kinds of music I listened to at the time, and I chose the Stax to keep.  Both amps at the time costed about the same.  At the time I could have gotten a BHSE for much less than they cost now, with less wait than now.  But, even then, it was several thousand more dollars to put into what is, after all a headphone system.  If money were no object, I'd have several expensive amps and a couple more pair of Stax phones.  Choices, folks.
> 
> For my money, the 007Tii gets a bad rap here that is undeserved.  The Head-Fi meme is that it's inadequate for its intended purpose; some of us here disagree.  It is the amp Stax sold then (and now) to be used with the best headphones they make.  Critical listening has revealed to me it's up to the task, for me, and with the music I like most.  That's it.


 
 Fair enough. But this hobby is about comparing and finding better equipment, which you did but you then stopped there. I have the SRM-717 and have heard the 007Ti on various occasions. It was not as good in many ways as my 717 IMO. It had a bit of tube midrange magic that I love in SET amplifiers, but the general sound to me was slow and smeared. It also sounded congested, lacking dynamics and detail. Possibly driving the 009s and listening at below normal levels it might pass ok. 
  
 The jump to a KGSShv with the 007s and 009s was enormous, not subtle. More of everything including detail, bass power, soundstage width, realism and dynamics. I don't understand why you found the KGSS the same or not as good as the Stax amp. Was it an early HeadAmp model? I still have my 717 and can vouch for the SQ drop from my KGSShv. It is not a demo in a shop. I have lived with both amps for some time with my 009s.
  
 I had the 007s MK2.5s and my 717 started to congest and compress real quick. It was passable with the 009s, but then raised more questions over the treble quality and cold character of that amp. The 007s are warm and forgiving, but veiled IMO. They can hide upstream issues or bright recording, but they are hungry and the bass gets flabby quickly.
  
 Stax IMO has a problem with their 009s and the current amp line. They don't have an amp to leverage what that headphone can do. Inner Fidelity realised that in the first reviews against other amps with the 009s. I was happy with the 009 jump on my 717 amp from the 007s, but it didn't last long. The Stax amp is just too cold, compressed and 'hi-fi' sounding. It never gives you the feeling it is real music. I don't know why, but the KGSShv is warmer than the BHSE and is a superb pairing with the 009s. It just sounds right, real, dynamic and kicks hard in the bass. The BHSE is probably the best amp available for the 007s or 009s, they are very close but take a different slant on the sound.
  
 Anyway, each to their own. I can enjoy my 717 in isolation, and be content more or less. But after hearing the KGSShv, no going back I am afraid....


----------



## Downrange

I haven't hear the HV model - my KGSS was one of the first, so I don't want to compare apples to oranges.  KG could undoubtedly explain the differences.  Don't get me wrong, I loved the early KGSS, especially on more dynamic material, but I liked the midrange sweetness of the 007Tii better for my musical tastes.  I had to choose which to keep, and the KGSS was a LOT easier to sell.  
 It really is a matter of how much you want to invest, isn't it?  I just (along with a couple of others here) want to sound a note for the benefit of those whose pockets aren't deep enough to get BHSE or KGSS/HV model - the Stax amp works very well.  BTW, I heard the 717 and did not favor what it did for my music.


----------



## greggf

astrostar sez, "But this hobby is about comparing and finding better equipment..........."
  
 No it's not.  It's about finding musical satisfaction and pleasure at a price you can afford.  And then listening to music and not thinking about gear for a few years or so.
  
 Continual comparisons and a seeking of "perfection" are surefire paths to a living hell.  There are two great books out there on this:  THE NARCISSISTIC PURSUIT OF PERFECTION,  by Rothstein and THE PARADOX OF CHOICE:  Why More is Less, by Schwartz. 
  
 The essential argument is that shooting for some mythical "perfection" - it's mythical because it doesn't exist, and, in fact, you may have noticed that in audio precious little "better" even exists, just "different" - masks depression in most people. 
  
 How can you tell? 
  
 Give up the chase of comparing equipment and looking for "better" or "best", and you'll feel . . . depressed. 
  
 That's because audio isn't about music for many people here.  It's about the ultimately empty and unsatisfying chase. 
  
 Go ahead.  Try it.  Go away, and just listen to the gear you have now for a few weeks.
  
 You'll find your mind invaded by thoughts of, "But what if something out there sounds better than this?"  "What if my source has been made outdated by some other type of source?"  "What if someone has mega-loaded the cyclo with those unobtanium tubes from Outer Mongolia?"  "Would some amp with more power - MOAR POWER! - be better?"
  
 The LAST thing you'll be thinking and obsessing about ............. will be the music!  lol


----------



## eric65

To go in the direction of greggf, remember : "The best is the enemy of the good...".
  
 Nota: 
 Meaning of this quote:
 (translation) http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Discussion:le_mieux_est_l%E2%80%99ennemi_du_bien
 " It is not a saying but a quote (from Montesquieu; Charles-Louis de Secondat of la Brède Montesquieu), but poorly transcribed. The exact phrase is "the better is the mortal enemy of the good".
 It means obviously that the quest for perfection is a major defect in all things, harmful to the goal that it continues. According to Montesquieu, the search for the best is not a completion of the search of the property, but a fatal trap where any beneficial company can get bogged down, sink, turn to failure. "


----------



## DolphinG

I got SR-1 today.
 As I do not have equipment to measure bias voltage of SRM-X PRO.. I just tested it.
 Amazingly, it works very well without balance problem or other problems.
 It's sometimes very amazing to find this old headphones are working.
 It does not have earpad and has some rust on the headband (metallic part), leather part and housing are in great condition considering their production age.
 I upload some picture here.


----------



## astrostar59

greggf said:


> astrostar sez, "But this hobby is about comparing and finding better equipment..........."
> 
> No it's not.  It's about finding musical satisfaction and pleasure at a price you can afford.  And then listening to music and not thinking about gear for a few years or so.
> 
> ...


 
 Hook up the 009s to a better amp than a Stax model, then tell me I am wrong..... Yes it is about finding satisfaction. But there is no harm in listening to your own headphones with alternative amps. The 09s sales so well, it is a remarkable device. Stax amps are bottling it IMO. A DIY built KGSShv can be had for not a lot more than the current 007Ti, less if you have the courage to built one, and half or less than half the cost of a BHSE.


----------



## Tachikoma

No one is denying that the KGSShv is a lot better than a current production stax amp, its just that there's always going to be something better out there, outside your reach. At some point you just have to wonder, why bother at all?


----------



## NoPants

That's why we build T2s, so the only thing we have to bother with is the electric bill


----------



## NotaLefty

Is it possible to get the "weighty" sound out of my SR-007 MKII that I can get out of planars and some dynamics? I'm not sure if the lack of slam and weight is due to poor amplification or if it is just the nature of the headphones. That is really my only issue with them, hopefully it can be resolved with different amplification!


----------



## astrostar59

tachikoma said:


> No one is denying that the KGSShv is a lot better than a current production stax amp, its just that there's always going to be something better out there, outside your reach. At some point you just have to wonder, why bother at all?


 
 You can get a good KGSShv for the same money as the 007Ti. Look around the community and you should find one. One tube amps, the recent KGST is superb I am told by mates who have heard it, and is cheap to maintain re tubes. Don't give up. Stax amps are near the car parks, better things are further up the track....


----------



## edstrelow

"Is it possible to get the "weighty" sound out of my SR-007 MKII that I can get out of planars and some dynamics? I'm not sure if the lack of slam and weight is due to poor amplification or if it is just the nature of the headphones. That is really my only issue with them, hopefully it can be resolved with different amplification!"    NotaLefty
  
 Answer: Sorbethane damping.  See my thread in this forum.


----------



## purk

tachikoma said:


> No one is denying that the KGSShv is a lot better than a current production stax amp, its just that there's always going to be something better out there, outside your reach. At some point you just have to wonder, why bother at all?


 
 Very true, but when the KGST can be had for less than $2200 (heck one is available used right now for $1700), why would you bother with Stax amps for higher price.
  


nopants said:


> That's why we build T2s, so the only thing we have to bother with is the electric bill


 
 Very true!  I didn't build my own but got luck and own one.
  


notalefty said:


> Is it possible to get the "weighty" sound out of my SR-007 MKII that I can get out of planars and some dynamics? I'm not sure if the lack of slam and weight is due to poor amplification or if it is just the nature of the headphones. That is really my only issue with them, hopefully it can be resolved with different amplification!


 
 This is what I was trying to warn you about getting into the SR-007 MKII and get the MKI.  The MKII is bloated in bass response and need a hefty amplification to clean that up.  You can certainly try snappier sounding amp.
  


astrostar59 said:


> You can get a good KGSShv for the same money as the 007Ti. Look around the community and you should find one. One tube amps, the recent KGST is superb I am told by mates who have heard it, and is cheap to maintain re tubes. Don't give up. Stax amps are near the car parks, better things are further up the track....


 
 Yup, why pay for the 007TII or 727II when you can get the KGST for a little more or at the same price.


----------



## Tachikoma

nopants said:


> That's why we build T2s, so the only thing we have to bother with is the electric bill


 
 Now you'll need to build FrankCooter's all DHT amp, and KG's DHT amp if he ever publishes the design


----------



## NoPants

tachikoma said:


> Now you'll need to build FrankCooter's all DHT amp, and KG's DHT amp if he ever publishes the design


 
 I would seriously consider frank's amplifier if I could get proper output transformers. I've got a new DAC coming in that only does single ended, so I wanted to build a system around that
  
 I think I already know that I can't afford to build Kevin's DHT, even though I haven't seen the design


----------



## lojay

purk said:


> Very true, but when the KGST can be had for less than $2200 (heck one is available used right now for $1700), why would you bother with Stax amps for higher price.
> 
> Very true!  I didn't build my own but got luck and own one.
> 
> ...


 Interesting. How far behind is the KGST from the KGSSHV and BHSE when driving the SR009? Is it another case of the law of diminishing returns?


----------



## NoPants

the KGST is on par when it comes to current output, and I think it does certain things better than the SSHV. I'm in the process of building a SiC to compare
  
 I enjoy the BHSE more than these but I no longer own mine


----------



## lojay

nopants said:


> the KGST is on par when it comes to current output, and I think it does certain things better than the SSHV. I'm in the process of building a SiC to compare
> 
> I enjoy the BHSE more than these but I no longer own mine


 
 Thanks. I think it should be warmer than the BHSE, but does it lack the resolution and holographic soundstage of the BHSE? I have heard neither so I'd much appreciate your comments.


----------



## astrostar59

The KGSShv IMO is on par with the BHSE on many of my preferred quality points. They are different flavours. The BHSE oddly is colder but has the tube holographic mid range and vocal bliss. The KGSShv is a bit more hefty, warmer and possibly better on electronic / rock tracks. I could live with either amp, but the factor that swayed the KGSShv for me was the no tubes leave it on aspect. I leave tubed pre-amps on all then time, but not power amps. I also had a bad 300B tube blow out my Power amps (speaker amps) so I am not a big tube power amp fan as much as I used to be.
  
 On KGSS v KGSShv, I can't comment as I haven't heard it. The design and specs of the PS section and current and output boards in the KGSShv are superior so I guess it might be a big jump. There are also so so KGSShv amps and great KGSShv amps. IMO the off-board design is better sonically than the on-board. And the transformer quality, the resistors, if 1968 Chips and the quality of the volume pot all have an impact on the SQ level attained.
  
 The BHSE being built by Justin are all going to be the same level of SQ I would guess. Though changing the EL34s to various makes can slant the signature to fine tune your system, I call that 'system synergy' and once done right it results in musical heaven - no fatigue - and of course more listening!
  
 Anyway, I am pleased I have some back up posts above. Stax amp guys can get a bit heavy. I kept my 717 as it is not a disaster, and worth more to me than the cash I would get for it. But really, Stax needs a new top of the line amp to mate with the 009s. (I think they know it) a new unit is rumoured to be in the pipeline....


----------



## preproman

astrostar59 said:


> *There are also so so KGSShv amps and great KGSShv amps. IMO the off-board design is better sonically than the on-board. And the transformer quality, the resistors, if 1968 Chips and the quality of the volume pot all have an impact on the SQ level attained.*


 
  
 So it's safe to say you have heard multiple HVs...... On board and Off board and those with different parts?


----------



## Earspeakers

Something I've noticed with Stax compared to any other open backed headphones I've used, which is they subjectively are more sensitive to environmental noise than others I've used such as Sennheiser. The best listening is in a totally quiet environment, add even a little environmental noise and it falls apart. Actually I'd not even say best, I'd say they really _require_ a quiet environment. 
  
 If true I see two possible causes, one the Stax open design allows in more environmental noise than others. Two, the headphones are more involving (at least for me) and realistic, so I'm more annoyed by intrusion. 
  
 I actually think the latter is the explanation, these headphones are so holographically real, deeper into the 'uncanny valley' that I'm less tolerant of intrusion as it knocks me out of that place. Anyhow curious of other thoughts on this.


----------



## David1961

Although the BHSE is more expensive than any of the available Stax amps, IMO it's a lot better value.
This is because ( IMO ) it has a lot better built quality, sounds better, and there's only one person ( Justin ) to pay, unlike Stax amps.
Like what Julian ( astrostar59 ) said though, the only problem with the BHSE or any amp that use tubes, is I'd never leave it on unattended, I've had my BHSE on for 9 hours and it ran faultlessly, but I didn't go out anywhere.
That's one of the reasons I plan on eventually getting a KGSSHV Carbon though.


----------



## FrankCooter

nopants said:


> I would seriously consider frank's amplifier if I could get proper output transformers. I've got a new DAC coming in that only does single ended, so I wanted to build a system around that
> 
> I think I already know that I can't afford to build Kevin's DHT, even though I haven't seen the design


 
  
 The output transformers are built by Jack Eliano of Electra-Print. They are a modified version of a high level phase-splitter. Cost was about $450.00 for the pair. As far as I know, they are still available.
  
 My amplifier uses an 845 DHT for the output, but the first two stages are an indirectly-heated 76 and 6V6. The 76 is CCS loaded with LED bias. The 76 is directly connected to the 6V6 driver, and the 6V6 drives the 845 via an interstage transformer. It's a pretty straight forward design. The only things a little unusual about it is that the 845 employs "fixed" bias (cures a lot of the bass "flabbieness" often associated with DHT amps) and that the  B+, including the HV for the 845, is fully regulated..
  
 After years of listening and owning most the high-end headphones out there, I have finally permanently settled into "Stax mode". It wasn't always that way. I've always appreciated their detail and precision, but found them lacking in bass, impact, and a bit too harsh on top for my tastes. This amp, together with 009's and a Metrum Hex, is my attempt to build an "end-game" system reflecting my classical analog tastes. It's still a work in progress, but I feel I'm getting there. This system will be at the upcoming SoCal Canjam. Come check it out.
  
  
 .


----------



## astrostar59

preproman said:


> So it's safe to say you have heard multiple HVs...... On board and Off board and those with different parts?


 
 I asked KG and he said the off-board was a bigger sound for the reasons of more current in the PS due to the heat sinking.
  
 As regards parts quality, are you trying to say all amps with the same circuit design sound the same? Let see, resistor quality,
 transformer quality, wiring quality, capacitor quality. Think I got most of them. Maybe you should buy cheap Chinese copies
 for those parts, and say it sounds the same......
  
 I also trust owners on this forum who have or previously owned both off and on board who confirm those findings.


----------



## Michgelsen

Wow, what a beast! What kind of veneer is that? I've never seen that figure/pattern before.
  
 Quote:


frankcooter said:


> .


----------



## preproman

First you shouldn't assume anything, you know what they say about that.  That's why I asked "was it safe to say"  I'm not trying to say anything.  I was asking...
  
 So what's really going on here is that you have "NOT" heard multiple HVs - you're just talking out the side of your neck.  
 "KG said"
   
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> I asked KG and he said the off-board was a bigger sound for the reasons of more current in the PS due to the heat sinking.
> 
> As regards parts quality, are you trying to say all amps with the same circuit design sound the same? Let see, resistor quality,
> transformer quality, wiring quality, capacitor quality. Think I got most of them. Maybe you should buy cheap Chinese copies
> ...


----------



## astrostar59

preproman said:


> First you shouldn't assume anything, you know what they say about that.  That's why I asked "was it safe to say"  I'm not trying to say anything.  I was asking...
> 
> So what's really going on here is that you have "NOT" heard multiple HVs - your just talking out the side of your neck.


 
 No, I am saying that the off board is better IMO and many others than the on board. Then I am saying (another subject) that consumate parts quality affects the final sound.
 For example, now you seem to be not understanding these basics, I will go back to primary school here.
  
 Lets look at volume pots. There are bog standard 3 resistor with a brass wiper can be had for 20US typically, and are ok but do degrade the sound. It is a fact.
 Then we have series or ladder type resistor pots that have a resistor specifically used for that level of gain. They DO sound better and loose less in sonics, but cost more.
 There are other types and the cost climbs further. But you get my drift here. Parts quality = SQ. Yes the design of the amp is important, very much so. But parts quality can extract more from that same design. Many audio manufacturers (the better ones) are already doing this with their level of products. The higher the level, the better parts used, for example Black Gates used to be the standard in top amplification, and they are now making a comeback. This is because they SOUND better.


----------



## preproman

astrostar59 said:


> No, I am saying that the off board is better IMO and many others than the on board. Then I am saying (another subject) that consumate parts quality affects the final sound.
> For example, now you seem to be not understanding these basics, I will go back to primary school here.
> 
> Lets look at volume pots. There are bog standard 3 resistor with a brass wiper can be had for 20US typically, and are ok but do degrade the sound. It is a fact.
> ...


 
  
 Ha...OK...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I was talking about your "IMO" without actually hearing multiple HVs.  
  
 Ok so lets get back to people giving their opinions without hearing what they're giving their opinion on.


----------



## georgep

preproman said:


> Ha...OK...
> 
> I was talking about your "IMO" without actually hearing multiple HVs.
> 
> Ok so lets get back to people giving their opinions without hearing what they're giving their opinion on.




Don't waste your time with this guy. He just says whatever and is 100% correct all the time. I asked KG, and he told me so.


----------



## NoPants

How dare you George, his time is clearly wasted on us plebeians
  
 Anyways I think astrostar59 has made it excruciatingly clear that he likes the KGSSHV. To wax on about it in the same way isn't all that constructive and after the Nth time it really just feels like you're trying to validate your purchase over other options at different price points. To address a more practical concern, anyone thinking about building the KGSSHV (or any other electrostatic amplifier) should stick to *parts that are properly rated, and parts that aren't fakes*. Beyond that you can spend as much or as little as you want, and the chances are it will *still sound like a KGSSHV/etc. in the end*. 
  


frankcooter said:


> The output transformers are built by Jack Eliano of Electra-Print. They are a modified version of a high level phase-splitter. Cost was about $450.00 for the pair. As far as I know, they are still available.
> 
> My amplifier uses an 845 DHT for the output, but the first two stages are an indirectly-heated 76 and 6V6. The 76 is CCS loaded with LED bias. The 76 is directly connected to the 6V6 driver, and the 6V6 drives the 845 via an interstage transformer. It's a pretty straight forward design. The only things a little unusual about it is that the 845 employs "fixed" bias (cures a lot of the bass "flabbieness" often associated with DHT amps) and that the  B+, including the HV for the 845, is fully regulated..
> 
> ...


 
 Frank, do you have a specific part number/specs for your output transformer? Are there any specs that you'd care to improve on after using them in several designs? I probably won't build this in the near future until I get rid of a few of my amplifiers, and even then I certainly wouldn't attempt any woodwork. I think I have a shoebox that would suit this build nicely
  
 Some other considerations that popped into my head after staring at this:
 What was your choice of interstage transformer?
 How did you implement the heater for the 845?


----------



## pataburd

The SR-507 and/or the Woo WEE are going up on the FS forum.
 Maybe I should pick up a dedicated Stax amplifier, like the 323S.  I fear that all the extraneous stuff between my source and the SR-507--(a) Qinpu A-1.0X integrated, (b) JW Audio cryoed jumpers from speaker outs to Woo WEE, then (c) the WEE itself--bungled the pure signal.  Should I try the SR-507 w/the 323S before throwing in the towel?
 I swapped in my hybrid Fitz-improved Bada PH-12 and the AKG K812 dynamics and Tchaikovsky's 4th Symphony sounded A LOT better!!!


----------



## NoPants

I think the lamdas will do fine out of a 252S if you don't want to drop as much money.


----------



## pataburd

nopants said:


> I think the lamdas will do fine out of a 252S if you don't want to drop as much money.


 
 OK.
 Thank you for the feedback.


----------



## Michgelsen

@pataburd: If I could choose, I would pick a Stax tube amp for Lambdas. They match very well in my opinion.
  
 By the way, I listened to the SRS-2170 system last weekend, and I was very impressed. It's been two (?) months since I sold my 202 and 507, so I couldn't compare directly, but from memory I would say the 202 and 207 are very very similar (which is a good thing). The 507 is most of all brighter than the 207, and also has a bass that goes a bit deeper and is tighter/punchier, but this could also be because I used to drive the 507 with a 717 and better source and never heard it out of a 252s. Anyway, I found that the 207 has a nice, balanced signature, with not too much or too little of anything, although with the familiar Lambda forward mids. The 2170 system is certainly awesome for the money.
 Furthermore, I find the SRM-252s to be very well built. It has a small and simple case, but looks well finished nonetheless, and the volume pot feels very solid.


----------



## xantus

earspeakers said:


> Something I've noticed with Stax compared to any other open backed headphones I've used, which is they subjectively are more sensitive to environmental noise than others I've used such as Sennheiser. The best listening is in a totally quiet environment, add even a little environmental noise and it falls apart. Actually I'd not even say best, I'd say they really _require_ a quiet environment.
> 
> If true I see two possible causes, one the Stax open design allows in more environmental noise than others. Two, the headphones are more involving (at least for me) and realistic, so I'm more annoyed by intrusion.
> 
> I actually think the latter is the explanation, these headphones are so holographically real, deeper into the 'uncanny valley' that I'm less tolerant of intrusion as it knocks me out of that place. Anyhow curious of other thoughts on this.




100% agree. also cover your eyes.. and relax your face. these things bone conduct


----------



## Dopaminer

xantus said:


> 100% agree. also cover your eyes.. and relax your face. these things bone conduct


 

 But first, unplug refrigerator, turn off all fans/air conditioners, stop all clocks, throw the purring cat outside.  It`s amazing how much ambient noise we live with.  Every time the power goes out in Bangkok, this enormous silence crashes down, opens up . . .   Only problem is the mild tinitus starts ringing.....


----------



## headinclouds

frankcooter said:


> The output transformers are built by Jack Eliano of Electra-Print. They are a modified version of a high level phase-splitter. Cost was about $450.00 for the pair. As far as I know, they are still available.
> 
> My amplifier uses an 845 DHT for the output, but the first two stages are an indirectly-heated 76 and 6V6. The 76 is CCS loaded with LED bias. The 76 is directly connected to the 6V6 driver, and the 6V6 drives the 845 via an interstage transformer. It's a pretty straight forward design. The only things a little unusual about it is that the 845 employs "fixed" bias (cures a lot of the bass "flabbieness" often associated with DHT amps) and that the  B+, including the HV for the 845, is fully regulated..
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is such impressive work Frank, thank you for posting it.  It must be an inspiration to others. Respect!


----------



## Don Quichotte

pataburd said:


> The SR-507 and/or the Woo WEE are going up on the FS forum.
> Maybe I should pick up a dedicated Stax amplifier, like the 323S.  I fear that all the extraneous stuff between my source and the SR-507--(a) Qinpu A-1.0X integrated, (b) JW Audio cryoed jumpers from speaker outs to Woo WEE, then (c) the WEE itself--bungled the pure signal.  Should I try the SR-507 w/the 323S before throwing in the towel?
> I swapped in my hybrid Fitz-improved Bada PH-12 and the AKG K812 dynamics and Tchaikovsky's 4th Symphony sounded A LOT better!!!


 

 I cannot comment on the specific headphones you are talking about, only about their relatives. I have the AKG K501, AKG K1000 (bass light version - I'm aware that it's probably very different to the K812, at least tonally-wise) driven by a lowly t-amp (but I've heard it with a few mid-fi amps in the past) and Stax 303 driven by the 313 amp. My Stax phones have old style pads, deeper and with open cell foam between the ear and the driver instead of the current woven cloth; to my astonishment, my pads themselves have a softer  and darker colored pleather and are a bit deper than the last (!) version of "old style pads" (which I've bought a pair of last month from here) and sound slightly different: a bit more spacious, more relaxed  and focused / less congested, and bass goes a bit deeper. Nonbelievers may smile as much as they wish.
  
 As to your question, my K1000 do sound more impressive at first, going from them to the Stax makes everything sound more closed in. But after a few minutes of adaptation I realize how subtle and (for me) satisfying the Stax phones sound. More balanced (although perhaps more colored too), easier to hear several melodic lines / instruments at the same time, the musical gestalt is richer as you hear all the notes of a complex symphonic score and everything makes sense from a musical standpoint. The K1000 have their strong(-er) points, but also more obvious drawbacks. For a piano recording (especially a bassier one such as George Winston - Night Divides the Day) I'd usually choose the K1000; for orchestral music, the Stax.
  
 For what it's worth...


----------



## Earspeakers

dopaminer said:


> But first, unplug refrigerator, turn off all fans/air conditioners, stop all clocks, throw the purring cat outside.  It`s amazing how much ambient noise we live with.  Every time the power goes out in Bangkok, this enormous silence crashes down, opens up . . .   Only problem is the mild tinitus starts ringing.....


 

 True. I hear a 60 Hz low hum coming from the urban area where I live. The house is very quite otherwise, but there's this throb which permeates everything on the edge of hearing.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

The answer is certainly out there...but I do ask BTW.
  
 I've two pairs of SR-X/mk3. One with a kind of resistor on the driver, like this one :
  

  
 The other pair without, like this one :
  

  
 Why this difference, and what is the difference ?
  
 Thanks.

 Ali


----------



## edstrelow

Do they sound different?


----------



## NotaLefty

Well, it's been a short ride, but I think I'm hopping off of the Stax train.


----------



## nick n

ali-pacha said:


> The answer is certainly out there...but I do ask BTW.
> 
> I've two pairs of SR-X/mk3. One with a kind of resistor on the driver, like this one :
> 
> ...


 
 I believe that is a Thermistor , though I could be wrong. Had one in something else here but I can't recall exactly what.


----------



## Earspeakers

notalefty said:


> Well, it's been a short ride, but I think I'm hopping off of the Stax train.


 

 I'm always curious why one would leave Stax for dynamic headphones.


----------



## pataburd

notalefty said:


> Well, it's been a short ride, but I think I'm hopping off of the Stax train.


 
 Me, too, for the time-being.
 The SR-507 will be going up for sale soon.


----------



## Michgelsen

earspeakers said:


> I'm always curious why one would leave Stax for dynamic headphones.


 
  
 The only thing I could think of, is when there isn't any electrostat that precisely suits your taste sound signature wise, or an upgrade to one that would, would be too expensive. There simply isn't enough choice in stats to suit everybody's wishes at all price points. Going back to dynamics, you get stuck with inferior technology and sound, yet this compromise may be necessary to get closer to the overall sound you're looking for.
  
 If you don't like the Lambdas, but don't want to or cannot make the jump to the 007 or 009, then it ends there. I myself don't want to spend the money on an 009. Luckily I like the 007 enough, and could happily live with a cheaper Lambda, but that's not for everyone. I would sure miss the finesse, airiness, details and effortlessness of stats, so I think I can never go back to dynamics unless a dynamic would be the best I could have.


----------



## arnaud

Actually, if all I could get was a recent lambda, I'd probably leave the boat too as its treble etch doesn't do it for me. Especially bad if the source or recording doesn't help.
That's what kept me away from stax for years actually. Now, if one can find 2nd hand older lambdas, that'd probably be a different story but that these things are becoming rather expensive / highly sought after.

I read somewhere else that the omega 2 may have gone through another invisible revision recently and its mid/treble is more behaved. The 009 is also supposedly slightly warmer now so, if all that is real and not just manufacturibg variations, then it's only a matter of time till the lambda gets retuned too...

Arnaud


----------



## realmassy

earspeakers said:


> I'm always curious why one would leave Stax for dynamic headphones.




Blaming STAX amps coming in 3...2...1


----------



## Earspeakers

michgelsen said:


> The only thing I could think of, is when there isn't any electrostat that precisely suits your taste sound signature wise, or an upgrade to one that would, would be too expensive. There simply isn't enough choice in stats to suit everybody's wishes at all price points. Going back to dynamics, you get stuck with inferior technology and sound, yet this compromise may be necessary to get closer to the overall sound you're looking for.


 


arnaud said:


> Actually, if all I could get was a recent lambda, I'd probably leave the boat too as its treble etch doesn't do it for me.


 
  
 To my ears the Stax are so above everything else in reproduction that any treble etch is a tiny price to pay. _Tiny_. The 307's have been the greatest difference I've ever heard in audio so in comparison they sound flawless to my ears. But then I only listen to classical music so its not surprising, I should have tried these years ago. 
  
 Well, since you mentioned it (_thanks_ for that  I guess the treble is a little shimmery. Piffle, it's mouse nuts. At any rate I have a 4070, SR-007 and SR-009 coming in the next few weeks. Oh and a SR-003, yeah I've fell off the deep end hard.


----------



## Lan647

I have a 407 here and it's slightly hard and bright sounding in the upper mids and lower treble relative to the 009. Still, it's a fantastic treble performance compared to pretty much everything else out there. Listening to an HD 800, AKG K812 and not to mention a T1 after it just sounds ridiculous. Apart from a somewhat inferior bass (not as tight, not as extended) and the mentioned treble hardness, the 407 isn't all that different from the 009. Supposedly a similar membrane is being used and it shows. The 009 is a little better at everything (and sounds bigger), but they are quite similar tonally, especially in the midrange.
  
 Pretty much every STAX headphone I've listened to (apart from maybe the 507 which I heard as lacking warmth, but I can't say for sure) have had a fantastic, neutral, natural midrange with the 007 mk1 still king to my ears. If you get a STAX system, it will most likely give you a fantastic midrange. The bass and treble will have greater variances.


----------



## Earspeakers

Now you've got me wondering, _is_ there a treble etch? If you hear it I'm not arguing (honestly), but bear with me for a moment. 
  
 I happen to be listening to Harpsichord sonatas when I wrote that. The harpsichord is the most treble etched instrument on the planet. Thin steel wires that get plucked; a harpsichord double concerto sounds like a cat fight where the two cats have PMS. But I love the instrument and have heard and played it live, but I've _never_ been able to listen to it recorded unfortunately. It just comes across all wrong. Horns, planers, dynamics, headphones all no difference (the one speaker I never tried was a 'stat so don't know about that).
  
 But on the 307's? Flawless. Some recordings are more trebly, some are less, they all fall well within the range of Harpsichords I've heard. All different venues too - some halls are more bright and trebly than others. The size of the audience matters too! Most recordings are in an empty hall which is brighter without all those bodies to reflect and absorb! I'm a classical musician and have experienced this first hand many times. 
  
 Add in different recording techniques, condenser mikes are all different and some tend to be edgier than others. Which I'm hearing in all these recordings, but again it's really, really small differences. 
  
 So I can't say the headphones are trebly honestly, except compared to dynamics which artificially warm out the sound. But if you like that no worries, it wrecks havoc with classical recordings. Planers (if you can handle the amp requirements) are great in this regards, lots of accuracy with (albeit artificial) warmth. Horns too but are finicky. 
  
 Will be interesting to compare to the higher end ones.


----------



## Earspeakers

> Originally Posted by *Lan647* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *the 407 isn't all that different from the 009*. Supposedly a similar membrane is being used and it shows. The 009 is a little better at everything (and sounds bigger), but they are quite similar tonally, especially in the midrange.
> 
> Pretty much every STAX headphone I've listened to (apart from maybe the 507 which I heard as lacking warmth, but I can't say for sure) have had a fantastic, neutral, natural midrange


 
  
 That's a telling point I've heard before. Sure the Stax use a similar membrane, but dynamic headphones use similar magnets, cones, wires and spiders too, and greater differences are reported over in that land. What does that tell you? The electrostatic headphone technology is so good already that even with cheaper ones you get performance nearly as good as the best is a reasonable conclusion.
  
 Just consider all those things that go into a dynamic, where a 'stat couldn't be simpler (an open air capacitor). The complexity with stats is in the amplifier, which requires more than a op-amp which is the minimum to drive a dynamic.

 Well anyhow, not beating the point but it piqued my interest. I have a huge collection and listen for 8 hours a day while I work on the computer. I won't get back to a recording for years usually, with exceptions I'm typically listening to new material all the time. So I'm not sensitive to getting "a particular sonic signature" as these recordings are all wildly different. It does however I think let me zero in on any added sonic signature of the Stax, which is essentially nil as far as I can tell. The differences in recording technology wash it all out. 
  
 If you just listened to a smaller set of non classical music I could see where that would be more important, you'd be more like the Three Little Bears


----------



## Sorrodje

arnaud said:


> Actually, if all I could get was a recent lambda, I'd probably leave the boat too as its treble etch doesn't do it for me. Especially bad if the source or recording doesn't help.
> That's what kept me away from stax for years actually. Now, if one can find 2nd hand older lambdas, that'd probably be a different story but that these things are becoming rather expensive / highly sought after.


 
  
  
 That match my own impressions. I had the SR307 on my desk those last days and was not impressed. It seems I prefer the SR404 by a consistent margin. Did not compare them side by side yet. I will bring back the two lambdas at home and will finalize my opinion before selling the SR404.


----------



## pataburd

For me, the SR-507 are hard/harsh/glary in the critical upper midrange/lower treble.  And that is precisely why I am getting rid of them.  Period.
  
 After tearing down my [albeit not top shelf] Stax gear and switching in the modest Yamaha MT220, I immediately recovered a fuller sense of musical satisfaction.
  
 I guess for me, the bar is raised significantly higher under the branded name "Stax", but--for me--the SR-507 did not rise to level of my expectancy for the highly touted "Stax" name.
  
 Granted, my exposure to electrostatics has been limited overall, but my favorite flavor to date have been the KingSound H-03: for me a much more transparent and engaging listen without the slightest trace of harshness compared to the SR-507.


----------



## edstrelow

pataburd said:


> For me, the SR-507 are hard/harsh/glary in the critical upper midrange/lower treble.  And that is precisely why I am getting rid of them.  Period.
> 
> After tearing down my [albeit not top shelf] Stax gear and switching in the modest Yamaha MT220, I immediately recovered a fuller sense of musical satisfaction.
> 
> ...


 
 Before you do you might want to try some sorbothane damping. I had very good results putting strips of 1/8 in self stick sorb on the inside baffle.  I was especially happy with what it did to my Lambda 404 and LNS. See my thread in this forum.  Damping done right raises  phones to a whole different level of performance.  I don't know the 507,  but the Lambda is a good basic design.  So far I have worked with 6 different Stax and all have been significantly improved with sorbothane damping. Others have confirmed some of these results and also that the problems are not just with Stax or other electrostatics. No headphone maker, as best I can tell, , electrostatic or dynamic has so far addressed the damping problem. Fortunately sorbothane is cheap and easy to play with.


----------



## edstrelow

arnaud said:


> Actually, if all I could get was a recent lambda, I'd probably leave the boat too as its treble etch doesn't do it for me. Especially bad if the source or recording doesn't help.
> That's what kept me away from stax for years actually. Now, if one can find 2nd hand older lambdas, that'd probably be a different story but that these things are becoming rather expensive / highly sought after.
> 
> I read somewhere else that the omega 2 may have gone through another invisible revision recently and its mid/treble is more behaved. The 009 is also supposedly slightly warmer now so, if all that is real and not just manufacturibg variations, then it's only a matter of time till the lambda gets retuned too...
> ...


 
 Retuning can come, in my experience from damping on the earcup with sorbothane and you can look at my thread in this forum. (I will also be demonstrating damped phones at Canjam in 2 weeks)   But I am sure there are other ways too, including adding mass of material so that there is just more stuff for the  energy to dissipate in the cups. Presumably if it gets dissipated  it ends up as heat, certainly that's what the Sorbothane people contend their stuff does.
  
 My first introduction to electrostatics was the old Koss ESP6, a brute of a phone, weighing almost 2 lbs, because it had transformers built into the earcups.  When I first listened to Stax, I thought how harsh they sounded, but their other virtues eventually  outweighed this concern and I sold the ESP 6 and have been a happy Stax camper for a long time now.
  
 However a few years back, I  refurbished an old 6 http://www.head-fi.org/t/234504/koss-esp6-refurbished-vintage-electrostatics  and  listening again a while back, noted that they were sweeter than any Stax I have, Lambdas 404 and LNS, SRXIII low and high bias, 007, 003 and Sigmas, Pro, 404 and low bias ( but certainly not as resolving although that hinges to a large extent on whatever power amp you drive them with.
  
  

  
 Recently I have been fiddling with damping of phones with Sorbothane which does  a lot of nice things to the sound including reducing harshness. After a while I realized that there might be  a connection between these 2 experiences.  The ESP 6 are so massive,  as i suggest, their mass can probably dampen more vibration in the earcups than a lighter phone. Also the 6's originally came with liquid filled earpads which may have also been better at damping than current foam-filled pads. Unfortunately they either leaked or puffed up and became solid after a year or two 2 and were abandoned by Koss. Also the 6 was a closed circumaural phone which would have had lower diaphragm displacement and would not have caused as much energy to get into the earcups to cause a problem in  the first place.
  
 Stax has put out some great products including the Lambda line.  But as far as I am aware, neither they nor any other company has seriously addressed the resonance issue.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Hey everyone,
  
 My brother in law is going to Osaka, Japan on wednesday.  Are there stax deals to be had?  if so, where?  what I would like, is a set of lambda nova signatures, or regular signatures as a second choice.  These would need to come from a used electronics store I assume.  I'm not terribly interested in the new line of stax.  although an old 202 system might be sweet.  I already have the NB sr-lambda with the srm1mk2 though.  so not sure how the 202's compare.
  
 Where should I tell the guy to go?  I'm also trying to talk him into getting stax for himself, but he would likely go brand new.


----------



## AnakChan

Try searching Stax in e-earphone.jp. This means Osaka 大阪日本橋店. So far only this available 2nd hand (I assume when you say "deals" you mean 2nd hand since prices for new don't really vary that much in Japan) :-

http://www.e-earphone.jp/shop/shopdetail.html?brandcode=000000056385&search=STAX&sort=brandname

P.S. If you see 秋葉原店, that means Akihabara (Tokyo)


----------



## Dopaminer

keithpgdrb said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> My brother in law is going to Osaka, Japan on wednesday.  Are there stax deals to be had?  if so, where?  what I would like, is a set of lambda nova signatures, or regular signatures as a second choice.  These would need to come from a used electronics store I assume.  I'm not terribly interested in the new line of stax.  although an old 202 system might be sweet.  I already have the NB sr-lambda with the srm1mk2 though.  so not sure how the 202's compare.
> 
> Where should I tell the guy to go?  I'm also trying to talk him into getting stax for himself, but he would likely go brand new.


 

 To add to AnakChan said :  I second going to E-earphone in Nipponbashi area. Start there. The area is a grid of electronics shops, Osaka`s version of Tokyo`s more famous Akihabara. I was just there a month ago, STAX shopping myself in fact, and if your brother-in-law walks North from E-earphone, he will pass by several very old-school hi-fi shops (the kind that have mostly disappeared in Tokyo) and a lot of them have STAX.  Not a lot of English will be spoken, but there`s no real need as the sales guys all pack large calculators to show the day`s prices. 
  
 d


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Thanks guys.  from what Ive read, not a lot of deals to be had on the new stuff.  the stuff I want isn't made anymore, so there might be some wiggle room in the shops?.  Its a long shot, but maybe I'll (he'll) get lucky.  He will dig the electronics area regardless.  Appreciate the help.


----------



## Downrange

I've been spending significant listening time under the 007s (with the EXCELLENT Stax SRM-007Tii tube amp) lately.  The 202's just aren't in the ballpark, really.  The Omega IIs just get that midrange right - and... I'm beginning to understand just how important that midrange clarity, delivered through the electrostatic ear speakers through a good tube amplifier, is to getting the ESSENCE of music just RIGHT.  When I plug the 202's in, I get hi-fi "etched" sound.  When I go back to the Omega IIs, I get the REAL thing.  
 Honestly, save your money on headphone purchases and go right to the source if you can possibly do so.  Get some Omega IIs.  And forget about the meme here that you MUST spend another 4-6K for an amplifier. Trust Stax.  They know what they're doing with tube amps.  If you're loaded, go ahead and get the BHSE, but don't let the lack of bux prevent you from enjoying the 007's or 009's.  Just get the GREAT SRM-007Tii and enjoy the MUSIC.


----------



## Amarphael

Fellas, I'm looking for a KGST/KGBH PSU board to replace in my KGSS. If someone could help me out i'd very much appreciate it. I already contacted the "immediate suspects" but unfortunately they aren't able to help me out right now.


----------



## Earspeakers

downrange said:


> And forget about the meme here that you MUST spend another 4-6K for an amplifier. Trust Stax.  They know what they're doing with tube amps.  If you're loaded, go ahead and get the BHSE, but don't let the lack of bux prevent you from enjoying the 007's or 009's.  Just get the GREAT SRM-007Tii and enjoy the MUSIC.


 
  
 I agree with that. If you have the money and interest then upgrade, but the low end Stax aren't low end at all, and neither are the amps. My 323S/307 kills everything else I've heard. Of course it didn't stop me from getting a BHSE/009


----------



## astrostar59

earspeakers said:


> I agree with that. If you have the money and interest then upgrade, but the low end Stax aren't low end at all, and neither are the amps. My 323S/307 kills everything else I've heard. Of course it didn't stop me from getting a BHSE/009


 
 I agree. The Stax sound is addictive. It just gets more real, more information, more acoustic, more depth. It is this that hooked me back in after 30 years of owning the Lambda range models, and periodic use. After I went part time, I got to use them more, and got the bug again (big time).
  
 The ambiance aspect of Stax is the thing I haven't heard in other phones. Yes the LCD2/3 are great, maybe more bass QUANTITY but to me that is only part of the story. 
 On Stax amps, yes I agree to an extent guys. But the jump to the BHSE and other amps is quite marked, you get more of everything you are hearing right now (and like) IMO. 
  
 Yes the alternate amps can be expensive and waiting times for the BHSE are very long. But compare that cost with a top level speaker set-up, you are looking at 100K upwards to get anywhere near the 007/009s IMO. It is possible for a regular guy to own the best headphone system on the planet for 10th the price of a speaker setup. Now that is good news in my book.
  
 If you want to get to the maximum from the 007s or 009s it is worth the extra cost. BTW it is possible to purchase / DIY the KGST or KGSShv to around the same cost as a new 007Ti. Not far off anyway depending where you are located. 
  
 IMO the 009s have it all and scale so well, a remarkable Stax achievement.


----------



## Lan647

astrostar59 said:


> I agree. The Stax sound is addictive. It just gets more real, more information, more acoustic, more depth. It is this that hooked me back in after 30 years of owning the Lambda range models, and periodic use. After I went part time, I got to use them more, and got the bug again (big time).
> 
> The ambiance aspect of Stax is the thing I haven't heard in other phones. Yes the LCD2/3 are great, maybe more bass QUANTITY but to me that is only part of the story.
> On Stax amps, yes I agree to an extent guys. But the jump to the BHSE and other amps is quite marked, you get more of everything you are hearing right now (and like) IMO.
> ...


 
  
 And apart from sounding great, it's a tremendously well engineered and expensive looking headphone as well. While this factor is certainly secondary to the sonics, I really do appreciate it as there aren't many expensive headphones out there really that exude this kind of premium quality. It looks and feels like serious business.


----------



## astrostar59

lan647 said:


> And apart from sounding great, it's a tremendously well engineered and expensive looking headphone as well. While this factor is certainly secondary to the sonics, I really do appreciate it as there aren't many expensive headphones out there really that exude this kind of premium quality. It looks and feels like serious business.


 
 I wonder if Stax can go to another level with a product combo? There was a rumour they may be designing a new top of the line amp. That could bring out the 007 / 009 performance to the masses. Unless folk are really keen and go to meets, or have audiophile buddies, the alternative amps seem a bit hidden to me. I guess there are some dealers who stock the Woo range and could demo an 009 and the Woo Wee? For me in the UK it was down to buddies who were already on the hunt and had top line gear.
  
 If Stax did get a new amp out, it could get the price down of the unit if they sold volume, and get it 'out there' That is if Stax can handle the volume - guess that is another subject. I am thinking the top of the line Stax gear generates more profit to them? Just a thought.
  
 Going back to the lower models in the line up, they are not half bad either. I am after a 507 at some point for a second setup. The 507s seemed to be a smaller version (of the sound) to the 009s rather than a different take like the 007s. Plus the 507s are (for the SQ) good value.


----------



## Earspeakers

astrostar59 said:


> I agree. The Stax sound is addictive. It just gets more real, more information, more acoustic, more depth ... The ambiance aspect of Stax is the thing I haven't heard in other phones.


 
  
 It's remarkable. I spent years with planars, horns, developed and made my own amps. Finally ended up on a crazy vinyl rig, a RIAA preamp I designed (you know I used to work with Sigfried Linkowitz? Funny old guy), line stage and amp. All crazy high end, but I gave up as nothing I did could really reproduce a string orchestra. Or a harpsichord, or an opera with orchestra, soloists and chorus. It all fell apart, so I gave it up, sold off and bought a new grand piano. Then on a whim I decided to try these Stax headphones I heard about and found the first reproduction that actually reproduces real instruments and real voices in real halls.
  
 Anyhow, I'd characterize them as the following head and shoulders above all else
  

*Detail and Accuracy* This is the root source of everything else. The only thing that comes close to this is a high end horn system, but those suffer from other artifacts (shout) and other issues (big, scary looking, ears/speaker alignment is small and finicky)
*Ambiance* Yes, certainly. For concert hall music (not popular which is usually miked and processed to remove all of that) it sounds like you're in the hall. Usually they try their best to minimize the hall effects but they still necessarily come through, and all other systems wash most of this away. 
*Instrument reality* Best test for a system is massed strings, it falls apart for most all of them including _all_ speakers I've heard (planers, 'stats, horns, high end dynamics)
*Large group reality* Symphony, opera, chorus, all the details fuzz together into a brash smeared texture. Oh on cursory listen most systems will sound OK - your brain will fill in the detail, but if you know what these groups really sound like only Stax does it correctly
  
 All the other audiofool stuff I could care less about. Bass slam? Whats that? An artifact of amplified kick drums at rock concerts*. Treble/midrange etch? OK, whatever ... try hearing a concert on a dry day, or in a lightly loaded hall with lots of reflecting surfaces. Pfffffffftttttttt .....
  
 I digress 
  
 * Though I am investigating _true_ bass slam (according to my world  ) which is the sound of a 6' bass drum in a real hall. For example, early in _*La damnation de Faust*_ he uses one of these monsters. If you've never heard a real bass drum live you don't know what bass slam is, these things cause earthquakes. The percussionist has to warm the drum head up (quiet tapping) before hitting it so as to prevent it from flying apart. They can put out 25W whereas the orchestra is around 67W! Anyhow I'm not impressed with how Stax does this compared to earlier solutions, but I'm investigating as I don't know yet if perhaps those solutions were artificially pumping it, or if the Stax can't quite pull this off.


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## walakalulu

I've just made an improvement to the 007tll kimik by plugging it into a mains conditioner. More depth and body now. I guessed the power supply section wasn't great given the price so gave it a helping hand. Much improved.


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## FrankCooter

A little off-topic, but I'm curious about your RIAA preamp. I'm working on one now.
  
 I listen to headphones exclusively  these days ( Stax 007's and 009's), but have built a number of large scale horn systems in the past. I used primarily vintage Altec studio components ( dual 515g woofers, 1005 multicell horns, JBL bullet tweeters, and a Carver Sunfire subwoofer on the bottom) Total cost of components , including cabinet materials around $5k. More or less the system you would have seen in a mid-sized movie theater in the 1950's. The system was large, and it needed a large room to come together in. As much as I appreciate Stax and other headphones, there was no comparison of this type speaker system to any headphone system.  The headphones, especially the Stax, will bring you detail, imaging, speed, etc., but will never bring you the sense of scale, space, and power that a top level speaker system is capable of. It's apples and oranges. I wouldn't call one inherently superior to the other.


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## Earspeakers

frankcooter said:


> A little off-topic, but I'm curious about your RIAA preamp. I'm working on one now.


 
  
 A simple one, 2s170Bl input FET to a two stage tube with RIAA RC filter I developed between the two. the tubes were 6ER5's. Small signal so relative non-linearity of the 6ER5s didn't matter but they have nice high gain. Quiet as heck, simple, with just a couple of teflon coupling caps in between them. On and lm317 CCS plate loads on both. 
  


> The headphones, especially the Stax, will bring you detail, imaging, speed, etc., but will never bring you the sense of scale, space, and power that a top level speaker system is capable of. It's apples and oranges. I wouldn't call one inherently superior to the other.


 
  
 Hmm, not for my ears. Too many years sitting on the stage no doubt, but large scale speakers just sound like, loud speakers to me. I did like the Maggies though in that regards. To each his own ..


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## gilency

frankcooter said:


> A little off-topic, but I'm curious about your RIAA preamp. I'm working on one now.
> 
> I listen to headphones exclusively  these days ( Stax 007's and 009's), but have built a number of large scale horn systems in the past. I used primarily vintage Altec studio components ( dual 515g woofers, 1005 multicell horns, JBL bullet tweeters, and a Carver Sunfire subwoofer on the bottom) Total cost of components , including cabinet materials around $5k. More or less the system you would have seen in a mid-sized movie theater in the 1950's. The system was large, and it needed a large room to come together in. As much as I appreciate Stax and other headphones, there was no comparison of this type speaker system to any headphone system.  The headphones, especially the Stax, will bring you detail, imaging, speed, etc., but will never bring you the sense of scale, space, and power that a top level speaker system is capable of. It's apples and oranges. I wouldn't call one inherently superior to the other.


 
 Frank:
 you got the 009's?
 I thought you did not like them


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## FrankCooter

gilency said:


> Frank:
> you got the 009's?
> I thought you did not like them


 
 Greetings Enrique.

 I have a pair of 009's on extended loan. I do not own them. They were generously provided as a reference to assist in the further development of my 845 DHT electrostatic amp.
  
 You are right in that my initial impressions of them were not entirely favorable.  The treble (particularly with some solid-state electronics) was too hot for my tastes. I was also hoping for a little more similarity to the original Omegas, which have a subjectively larger and fuller sound than the Omega 2. Kind of surprisingly, the 009's seem to mate better than the 007's with the kind of tube based electronics I build. In this situation, I now prefer them to the 007's. I don't think the difference between the 009's and the 007's is huge, and I wouldn't pay $5k (even if I had it which I don't) for the 009's. On the other hand, with the 009's now at $2800, I'm tempted to see what I can do to get a pair of my own.
  
 Hope to see you and the Megatron at Canjam!


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## gilency

I will be on a business trip to Chicago I could not avoid, otherwise I would go.
 The Megatron and the 009 do sound better to my ears than with the KGSSHV though.
 Hopefully I will be able to attend the next meet. I am having some issues with the amplifier case getting toasty and will make a few holes on the case next week if I have time.


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## FrankCooter

Sorry to miss you. Hope to see you next time.
  
 How hot does your case get? If the case stays below 125F I wouldn't worry about it. Some temperature rise is to be expected, especially if you have enclosed power transformers. Hopefully vent holes will fix the problem. You might want to think about some sort of fan arrangement in the bottom of the case if the vent holes alone are insufficient.
  
 Those 8 El34's are drawing a lot of filament current. How much draw are your transformers rated for? As a personal rule of thumb for capacitor input filters, I de-rate power transformers by a factor of three or four.
  
 Like your color scheme, although I'd probably make the front panel black as well so as not to break from the overall "two-tone" theme.


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## Amarphael

amarphael said:


> Fellas, I'm looking for a KGST/KGBH PSU board to replace in my KGSS. If someone could help me out i'd very much appreciate it. I already contacted the "immediate suspects" but unfortunately they aren't able to help me out right now.


 
  
 I've been offered a universal mini-PSU, which seems the be about right, only caveat is- Can someone please tell me if the 2sa1968's that i have currently coupled to the same double-sided heatsinks as the power mosfets, can they be coupled to the smaller sinks that are used in the mini-PSU:


----------



## Earspeakers

Just got in my pair of SR-009's! Initial thoughts ...
  
 I've been on a 307 + SRM-323S system for some time, which I've throughly enjoyed. I'm building a KST, KGSSHV, Megatron and have a BHSE on order, but at the moment obviously the 009's are on the 323S. 
  

Beautiful piece of workmanship. I love how they sit on the Stax headphone stand. 
Comfort level is way up. The Lambdas press against my ear, rather painfully (but the sound is so good I don't care.)
These things are ******* polite compared to the 307's!
Initially they are actually _less_ involving as the 307's play more aggressively and demanding of my attention
Basic character - detail, speed and such are all there, but it's more contained and less hot than the Lambdas. 
The bass region seems flabby and indistinct (need to A/B this). Cellos, basses and such don't have a lot of detail. 
Expansiveness and breadth of the sound field has increased quite a bit
The two channels seem more separated and farther apart thereby
Also, _interestingly_, the sound stage now actually seems to be in front of me a bit. It's rather like being in the conductor position (where I've spent a lot of time actually)
  
 I also have a bunch other Stax coming in so will eventually post the Uber-review of all these amps with all these headphones. For now the 009's are sounding good, the only concern point would be the lower frequencies. My guess is that the 323S isn't up to driving these headphones down there.


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## NoPants

the 009 has a gap/shelf/suckout in the bass region, pretty consistent across amplifiers


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## Earspeakers

nopants said:


> the 009 has a gap/shelf/suckout in the bass region, pretty consistent across amplifiers


 

 Yeah that's what it sounds like. Like they're receded. 
  
 Oh god, that's funny. To make them less aggressive they probably had to pull back the whole presentation. My first guess would be by greater ear-transducer separation, which helps with comfort too. But, unfortunately that shelves the bass too!
  
 Ahhhh, Stax. You found the perfect transducer, or at least the best that technology can produce. How to improve it? You have to take something away. 
  
*Edit*: there's definitely more detail pulling out too, the most I've heard of any transducer, ever. Sounds from the instruments (keys clacking and so fort), shuffles and snorts from the musicians, and so forth. The 307's didn't get this much, just buried in the music with these others. 
  
 Initial guess is that these might like a slightly aggressive amp, for me, maybe the KGSSHV.


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## negura

That is why I like the Sanyo parts KGSSHV with the 009s. It produces strong deep bass, has good density and it's a very musical sounding solid state amp.
  
 The main weakness is imo, its soundstage size and depth, especially with vanilla components, but I am not going to get into more details on this topic here.


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## Earspeakers

First day with the 009's conclusion. First impressions above. 
  
 Well Stax could produce a total bomb and I'd still listen to it, so I'm not disappointed. Also because I got this pair at a good price, But I think that if I had bought it at full US retail, or (gasp) the release price which was $6k or something, or if this was meant to be my end all be all headphones, I might be upset. The recessed bass isn't something I had picked up from reading about them, and I probably would have discounted it. I'm a classical only listener, but it sounds wrong with the cellos and such being recessed. I'm actually thinking I'll have to eq this back to normalcy, something I've _never_ done before. 
  
 I've heard a lot about how people don't like that the Lambdas are so "treble etched", and yes in comparison they certainly are. But I'd say these are so laid back that it's like both are hitting opposite sides around the bullseye. Is there a yet to be released Stax headphone that hits the bullseye? 
  
 Anyhow, at the moment they'd be my _relaxing_ headphones, I think I'll listen to them at the end of a hard day where I don't want a challenge. They a relaxed, crooning, and don't challenge me in any way. My 307 Lambda does challenge me which I love for listening when I'm working on the computer (programming). Maybe I just need a little oomph. The 009s are the evening smoking jacket headphones. But I'll obviously continue to listen, adjust to them and try these other amps as soon as they're finished. 
  
 Based on this I'd recommend people who just want one Stax to try them all for sure before they buy, as I suspect the flagship is definitely not the ultimate for everybody. 
  
 Tomorrow I should be getting in a pair of 4070's, 007's in another week or two and 404LE too. Plus a Sigma I'm rebuilding, so I'll have lots to compare to


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## paradoxper

So is this sucked out bass a product of older/newer S/N? Gotta say my 009 hits as
 hard as anything out there barring the HE-6. Wondering if there's even further sample variances.
  
 Edit: This was a question posed more to Nopants as he has what I feel are competent amplifiers, etc.


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## arnaud

paradoxper said:


> Edit: This was a question posed more to Nopants as he has what I feel are competent amplifiers, etc.


 
  
 - The bass on my 009 is on the bloated side, most likely because it's driven by a stock SRM727
 - My recollection of trying the 323S shortly with the 009 a few years back and comparing back to back with the SRM727 was that the sub-bass was missing with the 323S
 - I will be curious to hear what the BHSE brings to the table, it's apparently shipping any day now, finally !


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## paradoxper

arnaud said:


> - The bass on my 009 is on the bloated side, most likely because it's driven by a stock SRM727
> - My recollection of trying the 323S shortly with the 009 a few years back and comparing back to back with the SRM727 was that the sub-bass was missing with the 323S
> - I will be curious to hear what the BHSE brings to the table, it's apparently shipping any day now, finally !


 
 I'd expect that sort out of a Stax amp.
 Nopants feels there is recessed bass and considering the slew of top notch amplifiers he's had at his disposal, which is further convoluted by Spritzer claiming/confirming/speculating there are now 009 variances, It makes things curious.
  
  
  
  
 Congrats, dude! Exciting times ahead. The wait is worth it I'm sure.


----------



## mulveling

I've now heard 3 examples of 009 in close proximity of each other -- one from more than 2 years ago, one from 8 months ago, and one from a couple months ago (all from PJ), and they're all *very* consistent in sound quality. If anything, the oldest example is the warmest, though I believe any such discrepancies can be attributed to pad conditioning/firmness (the oldest is the softest). 
  
 All 3 also have absolutely dead-on perfect L/R sound balance; it's rare to find that kind of consistent perfection in transducers. I definitely would never claim any of these eras of 009 has more/less bass or treble than the other. And still I think the 009 is the best all-around headphone I've ever heard, bar none. These are not only superb headphones, but seem to be consistent ones as well. Amps easily make FAR more difference than unit-to-unit or even pad variances on 009 can explain; even within flavors/builds of KGSShv.
  
 So in summary: 009? Cool! It's a 009! It sounds GREAT!! KGSShv? Cool bro -- which one?


----------



## Jones Bob

Fitting the SR-009 to your individual head size optimizes the bass response. Try slowly pulling out the ear cups with music playing to find the sweet spot. I found a position and bent my arc that yields bass similar to my LCD-3Fs but with zero mud. They have a very loose fit, but moving the earpads +/- 1-2mm in or out, the bass is diminished. Now it is damn near perfect.


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## Lan647

The f...? The SR-009 certainly doesn't have bloated bass to my ears. It is TIGHT.


----------



## Earspeakers

jones bob said:


> Fitting the SR-009 to your individual head size optimizes the bass response. Try slowly pulling out the ear cups with music playing to find the sweet spot. I found a position and bent my arc that yields bass similar to my LCD-3Fs but with zero mud. They have a very loose fit, but moving the earpads +/- 1-2mm in or out, the bass is diminished. Now it is damn near perfect.


 
  
 Ah good, I'll try that, thanks.
  


lan647 said:


> The f...? The SR-009 certainly doesn't have bloated bass to my ears. It is TIGHT.


 
  
 Yes the bass isn't bloated at all. And on the shelving remember these are just preliminary tests, with new owner excitement. As I'm listening today I don't hear it as before. Of course I slept on it, and at night our brains rewire and repair themselves (they turn the chemical memories into permanent wiring). And with our hearing, this means they adapt. Listener self bias, we can't avoid it, which is great for people who want to sell audio voodoo 
  
 By accident I also have a 207 a seller sent me, so of course I tried it out. Sounds exactly like the 307, and I'll bet the 507. Doesn't have gold pins, the cable is narrower, and overall feels cheaper, but I can't hear any difference. What about with the top end 009?
  
 I did direct A/B by plugging them both in the 323S. Difference? Very little frankly. Wasn't exhaustive testing, but while the 009 had more air, separation, delicacy and such _it wasn't much_. Certainly not 20X the price as much, just based on the audio IMO. 
  
 The point being that the Lambdas are a _steal_. For anybody wanting to get into Stax, or try them out, pick up a Lambda 207!


----------



## TheAttorney

jones bob said:


> Fitting the SR-009 to your individual head size optimizes the bass response.... but moving the earpads +/- 1-2mm in or out, the bass is diminished. Now it is damn near perfect.


 
 You can also move the earpads out in a different way to bending out the arc:
  
 You can put some stuffing between the pad and driver. It's very easy to do with this design. I used strips of 1-2mm thick stiff sheet foam - the kind that's sometimes used  to wrap round components in shipping. Easy to take in or out without having to take the pads off or undo any stitching. And this method doesn't loosen the overall fit - in fact it makes it fractionally tighter, but this can be balanced out by bending the arc if necessaary.
  
 Furthermore, borrowing an idea from the Other Site, you can stuff only the back half of the pads, which changes the angle of the drivers pointing into the ears. This changes the soundstage. I haven't finished experimenting, but overall it seems that the greater the angle, the more focused the images become, along with narrower soundstage. No right or wrong, you dial in the sound you prefer, focused or airy. At the moment, the foam strips have a tendency to slide out a bit, so longer term I may cut felt shapes exactly to size. At this point I need Zolkis to run with this idea and report back with exactly the best stuffing material to use 
  
 PS. I'll echo a few others to say that Bass Bloat is the last description I would apply to the 009s, which I think have the tightest, cleanest, most transparent bass around - this based solely on using them with my BHSE.


----------



## Earspeakers

theattorney said:


> You can also move the earpads out in a different way to bending out the arc ...


 
  
 The 009's are definitely more sensitive to placement than the Lambdas, which you can just toss on your head and get basically the same result every time. I've noticed that the 009 is much more sensitive to my hands being up near the drivers, or how exactly they're placed on the head. Some or much of this is probably due to this greater sensitivity. 
  
 I probably won't mess with it much and won't eq.


----------



## xantus

earspeakers said:


> Ah good, I'll try that, thanks.
> 
> 
> Yes the bass isn't bloated at all. And on the shelving remember these are just preliminary tests, with new owner excitement. As I'm listening today I don't hear it as before. Of course I slept on it, and at night our brains rewire and repair themselves (they turn the chemical memories into permanent wiring). And with our hearing, this means they adapt. Listener self bias, we can't avoid it, which is great for people who want to sell audio voodoo
> ...


 
  
 this was my experience exactly.  I first heard the 007 on a BHSE thru a fancy sacd..
 then i got a 202 system and realized I was 95% there...and made up the extra 5% by being able to afford a vinyl collection


----------



## kugino

so the strong dollar means that a brand new sr007A from Japan will cost around $1400. a used sr007 mk.1 is also around that price. eondering if I should just get a new mk.2.5 from Japan or look around for a good used mk.1. any thoughts?


----------



## NoPants

get the new one, plug the port


----------



## edstrelow

nopants said:


> get the new one, plug the port


 
 I tried plugging the port of my 007A some years back.  It certainly increased the bass, but made it intolerably boomy.  Possibly you could adjust the amount of plugging and get something you like.  These days I am on a sorbothane damping jag.


----------



## Earspeakers

Day two with the SR-009's: an investigation into the bass. 
  
 Today in addition to recordings I know very well, I did some frequency specific listening tests to take a look at that bass response. Such as the pipe organ scale on the Dr Chesky disk. Also looked at the charts for the 009 compared to, say the 507 on Inner Fidelity. 
  
 First, the audio tests. I can't hear any issues. Scales going up and down in the bass region sound even. This is isolated scale tests, so do not test the bass in music, just a audio perception of a equal volume scale (assuming the pipe organ is calibrated as they usually mostly are). 
  
 The I listened to more music, and frankly while on some pieces the bass seemed a little receded, in others it didn't seem so. Inconclusive, and certainly not at clear as it seemed yesterday when I initially heard it. 
  
 Finally look at the Inner Fidelity 009 chart. Compare to the 507 chart. Yes, there is a 2.5-3 dB shell starting at 100 Hz. Of course the 507 drops like a rock below about 30 Hz, but not much is down there. So look at the chart for musical instruments, the -3 dB point on the 009 is actually around 40Hz, then is flat to 10 Hz. There's very little that goes below 40 Hz!
  
 So, this isn't it folks. The bass is _not_ shelved according to measurements, but perceptually it does seem a little receded. I think the answer is that - it's perceptual. The presentation is so relaxed and "not in your face" that the bass (which is generally non directional and not in our faces anyhow) _seems_ to recede just a bit more. And not always, just on some pieces.


----------



## edstrelow

earspeakers said:


> Finally look at the Inner Fidelity 009 chart. Compare to the 507 chart. Yes, there is a 2.5-3 dB shell starting at 100 Hz. Of course the 507 drops like a rock below about 30 Hz, but not much is down there. So look at the chart for musical instruments, the -3 dB point on the 009 is actually around 40Hz, then is flat to 10 Hz. There's very little that goes below 40 Hz!


 
 To my eyes, both of these phones look to have  very good bass.  The lower limit of human hearing is normally considered to be 20 Hz  so the exetnsion to 10 Hz is not especially important.  The *009 shows about a 4dB drop below 70 Hz*, but that is not much at all and it is very level rather than going up and down.  The *507* shows about a 3 dB* rise *from 70 to 30Hz and then a slight decline but at 20 Hz it is  shows about the *same bass level as at 70 Hz*.  The peak at 30 Hz might make it sound a bit more bassy.


----------



## Earspeakers

edstrelow said:


> To my eyes, both of these phones look to have  very good bass.  The lower limit of human hearing is normally considered to be 20 Hz  so the exetnsion to 10 Hz is not especially important.  The *009 shows about a 4dB drop below 70 Hz*, but that is not much at all and it is very level rather than going up and down.  The *507* shows about a 3 dB* rise *from 70 to 30Hz and then a slight decline but at 20 Hz it is  shows about the *same bass level as at 70 Hz*.  The peak at 30 Hz might make it sound a bit more bassy.


 

 Yes agree, that's what I was trying to say. On the basis of measurement they both look equivalent and quite good, so I don't think we can't point to measurement of the cause of any possible bass issues.


----------



## Earspeakers

Well, as if this isn't fun enough a pair of 4070's just landed. 
  
*First impressions. *
  
 First the physical. These were designed to accommodate people with fat heads. The head band is attached with an elastic band, and the headphones kind of "float" on top of my head. Otherwise the circumference feels much larger, they don't grip my head very much. I'll ask my son later but I suspect that to get good isolation you'd actually need to hold both sides with your hands to press them against your ears. 
  
 Now the music. Compared to the 009 the sound is "flatter". That's the best description of it. The depth, perhaps in soundstage that I hear with the 009's, and even the Lambdas is less so here. Still has air, still has detail, but is flatter and less 'musical'. Certainly more analytical in that sense, which is what you'd expect for a studio monitor, but I wouldn't consider them analytical per-se. Just somewhat less colorful and natural. 
  
 Objectively the bass sounds about the same as the 009's, again the perceptual thing. 
  
 Well there it is, impressive technical feat, making a 'stat closed headphone that sounds this good. From my small tests the drivers really just need near field freedom. I think how they accomplished it here is to put the driver up near your hears, with a _just big enough_ damped cavity surrounding it. And it works. 
  
 Probably not a cup of tea for most folks, but I like them.


----------



## gordie

earspeakers said:


> Well, as if this isn't fun enough a pair of 4070's just landed.
> 
> *First impressions. *
> 
> ...


 

 I've been listening to my 4070s a lot these days (with the Stax 727II, and a Burson Conductor DAC), they are one of my favorite headphones (with some EQ - see below).
  
 I found I had to wear a baseball cap to get them to fit nicely, which isn't a big deal for me since I pretty much walk around in a baseball cap all day anyway.
  
 Also, I found a little bit of bass boost and some upper-mid cut made them sound much tighter and more musical (out of the box, they can get a little snappy with snare drum/etc).
  
 The EQ I use is slight: +2.5/64Hz, +1.5/128Hz, -1.5/2KHz, -2.5/4KHz, -2/8KHz. Even if you are averse to EQ, I'd be interested to hear what you think of the tonality on the 4070 if you have a chance to try those settings.
  
 And the hat is an easy tweak to try too.
  
 -- Gordie


----------



## rgs9200m

You listen to the Carpenters? I thought I was the only one here that did. I keep it to myself. (I even have the SACDs.)


----------



## gordie

rgs9200m said:


> You listen to the Carpenters? I thought I was the only one here that did. I keep it to myself. (I even have the SACDs.)


 
  
 No shame, I listen to pretty much every style of music, actually most of what I listen to is pretty far from the Carpenter's Wheelhouse. But to my ears and my heart, Karen Carpenter has the voice of an angel, and anything with her singing is just amazing. 
  
 Then there's this:
  
 http://dangerousminds.net/comments/karen_carpenters_voice_listen_to_her_isolated_vocal
  
 Sorry for the tangent, although then again, given Stax's great reputation for midrange and vocal presentation - Karen Carpenter's voice on a nice Stax setup is serious magic.
  
 -- Gordie


----------



## rgs9200m

Thanks for that link! Yep, I listen on my 009s.


----------



## astrostar59

xantus said:


> this was my experience exactly.  I first heard the 007 on a BHSE thru a fancy sacd..
> then i got a 202 system and realized I was 95% there...and made up the extra 5% by being able to afford a vinyl collection


 

 Oh dear, I think you guys need to do more listening with better front ends / amps. The jump from my Lambda Nova Signatures to my 007 Mk2s was big.
 At last, real bass, better dynamics, smoother treble ext ext, yet even more detail but and keeping the classic Stax sound. So I would say 35% jump at least. Then moving onto the 009s it was the same jump again, really big.
  
 I don't understand what you don't hear it? Maybe spend more time with the 007s or 009s and good front ends. Both those phones scale so well, it is incredible.
  
 The Stax sound is in all their current models I agree, as in ambiance, air, detail. But the levels in the respective phones is BIG IMO.


----------



## Lan647

All is relative, man.


----------



## Earspeakers

gordie said:


> I found I had to wear a baseball cap to get them to fit nicely, which isn't a big deal for me since I pretty much walk around in a baseball cap all day anyway.
> 
> Also, I found a little bit of bass boost and some upper-mid cut made them sound much tighter and more musical (out of the box, they can get a little snappy with snare drum/etc).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great tips Gordie, I'll try them. I like the idea of wearing some kind of hat (not baseball though  ), I'm rather fanatical about keeping my gear clean. 
  
 These were supposed to have been made for Japanese Broadcast. So I'm wondering how all those Japanese Broadcast guys felt about this enormous headband on their small Japanese heads? They like baseball over there, so maybe you've discovered the secret!


----------



## Earspeakers

Does anybody have a suggestion for a good Normal bias active amp? This is for a Stax SR-5 Gold. I have a SRD-6SB to go with it but would prefer an amplifier.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I've got a black SRM-1/Mk2 pro rev. C (with new caps). It works beautifully with my pro cans and with my normal bias cans (SR-5, SR-5 Gold black / ribbon cable, and SR-Lambda) as well.
 If the step from my SRD boxes is not subtle (more extension, more transparency and more details), transformer boxes do keep some foot-tapping character, with their more constraint (then easier) soundstage and low-mid bump
 My BHSE order includes a normal bias jack, I'll make a report about it...next year 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## Earspeakers

ali-pacha said:


> I've got a black SRM-1/Mk2 pro rev. C (with new caps). It works beautifully with my pro cans and with my normal bias cans (SR-5, SR-5 Gold black / ribbon cable, and SR-Lambda) as well.
> If the step from my SRD boxes is not subtle (more extension, more transparency and more details), transformer boxes do keep some foot-tapping character, with their more constraint (then easier) soundstage and low-mid bump
> My BHSE order includes a normal bias jack, I'll make a report about it...next year
> 
> ...


 

 Oh, didn't know you could get a normal bias on the BHSE. I've got one on order too, does it have normal and pro bias? What are the mods involved?


----------



## wink

When I built my KGSSHV, I put in 2 pro bias socket
  
 s and 1 normal bias socket.      Simple.


----------



## Earspeakers

wink said:


> When I built my KGSSHV, I put in 2 pro bias socket
> 
> s and 1 normal bias socket.      Simple.


 
  
 But what is the circuit mod?
  
 Speaking of which, for multiple outputs in a Staxen amp, are they simply paralleled? If so that doubles the load capacitance of a already high capacitance driver (it is a capacitor!)


----------



## wink

The rail voltages are +450v and -450v.
  
 So, all is needed is 2 resistors of equal value (say, 500 Kilohms) in sereies between the +450V rail and the 0V rail. Then you take the centre of those resistors to the normal bias connections on the socket through another 5 Megohm resistor.


----------



## VandyMan

What I hear from my Dec-2014 009s is clarity and transparency, top to bottom. No bloat in the bass unless it is in the music. No brightness unless it is in the music. Certainly not bright like an older AKG or Bayer. I can understand how some might consider this sound a tad analytical, but to me it is simply uncolored. That is not always a good thing with headphones; I sometime enjoy a more lush sound. With the 009 I feel I am hearing the truth of the recording. When the recording has that special magic, it is communicated thru the 009 like no other headphone, IMO.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

earspeakers said:


> Oh, didn't know you could get a normal bias on the BHSE. I've got one on order too, does it have normal and pro bias? What are the mods involved?


 
 It's very simple technically (see wink's post), and you just have to ask Justin. But you won't have three outputs on a Headamp's BHSE since front plate design (and layout as well) would be too different from the basis.

 Ali


----------



## Earspeakers

So, like so?


----------



## kugino

i don't have the luxury of listening to a lot of headphones prior to purchasing them since i live in a tiny island in the middle of the pacific...but the strong dollar has me thinking about purchasing the sr009 and selling off my cadre of headphones (hd800, th900, he6) to do so. i'd probably have to start off with a cheaper amp but then go up from there...
  
 my rationale to get the sr009 is the following: i can only listen to one headphone at a time...so why not go for the "best"...after all, any two of my headphones sit in my closet for months at a time while i'm listening to the third...if i don't like it, i can re-sell it at minimal loss because i can get a new sr009 now for cheaper than used ones go for...the headphones i currently have can be had in the future quite easily if i ever want to go back to dynamics. 
  
 so, what say you?


----------



## NoPants

It depends on how long your average listening sessions are- if you don't listen for more than an hour or two at a time the 009 might be better. For extended listening the 007 is way more enjoyable in my experience. 
  
 What amplifier were you planning to use with them?


----------



## Golfnutz

nopants said:


> It depends on how long your average listening sessions are- if you don't listen for more than an hour or two at a time the 009 might be better. For extended listening the 007 is way more enjoyable in my experience.
> 
> What amplifier were you planning to use with them?


 
 Pretty much for the last 2.5 years I've been listening to the SR-009's 8hrs a day, 5 days per week. 1-3 times per week during the evenings, and little use on the weekends (give or take a couple of weeks per year for travel and what not). I've never experience any fatigue what's so ever.


----------



## Earspeakers

> Originally Posted by *kugino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> but the strong dollar has me thinking about purchasing the sr009 and selling off my cadre of headphones (hd800, th900, he6) to do so. i'd probably have to start off with a cheaper amp but then go up from there...
> 
> ...


 

 Question is, whether the 009 is "the best"? Do you have a Stax already? Have you heard it? 
  
 Something to think about. If I had only one Stax (I don't - I only like Stax and have a collection and I enjoy listening to them all) I'm not sure the 009 is the best. Especially if money is tight then a Lambda will give you 95% (or something) of the same sound as the 009.


----------



## kugino

thanks for the input, everyone.
  
 so i don't know if the sr009 is the best...which is why i put "best" in quotes. i'm just going off what i've been reading in various threads and comparison pieces. of course it's not a consensus belief, but many seem to think that it is at least one of the best headphones out there. at least in the top 5. i'm totally willing to go for the cheaper sr007, either mk.1 used or the sr007A. i know some find the mk.1 to be more enjoyable than the sr009...i suppose i'd have to take people's word on it as i don't have the luxury of testing a bunch of headphones.
  
 so maybe here's another question: sr007/sr007A now with a really good amp...or sr009 with a starter amp that can be upgraded in the future?
  
 or, another specific pairing that might whet my appetite? thanks for the thoughts...


----------



## NoPants

KGST should work for both 007 and 009, they are the current popular choice for the headphones. I've no data to cite, but the KGSSHV is kind of getting phased out because all non-mosftet devices are getting hard to find. I'm currently working on a KGST that will accept 9RA6 tubes and I plan to use that with the 009.
  
 A while back I made some text wall of the various choices if you want a full range of options.


----------



## Lan647

kugino said:


> thanks for the input, everyone.
> 
> so i don't know if the sr009 is the best...which is why i put "best" in quotes. i'm just going off what i've been reading in various threads and comparison pieces. of course it's not a consensus belief, but many seem to think that it is at least one of the best headphones out there. at least in the top 5. i'm totally willing to go for the cheaper sr007, either mk.1 used or the sr007A. i know some find the mk.1 to be more enjoyable than the sr009...i suppose i'd have to take people's word on it as i don't have the luxury of testing a bunch of headphones.
> 
> ...




Well, my 2 cents? The 007 wipes the floor with the 009. 

Some agree with this, some absolutely do not. In my view, the 007 mk1 is the closest I've heard to live music. What's certain is that they're different. As has been said, you can get a pretty good idea of how the 009 will sound (overall) by purchasing a much cheaper lambda system, while the 007 is quite a different beast. I'm afraid you'll just have to try both for yourself (it is essential that the 007 is fed lots of clean power, the 009 is easier to drive) or just purchase blindly and hope for the best. 

Cheers!


----------



## kugino

lan647 said:


> Well, my 2 cents? The 007 wipes the floor with the 009.
> 
> Some agree with this, some absolutely do not. In my view, the 007 mk1 is the closest I've heard to live music. What's certain is that they're different. As has been said, you can get a pretty good idea of how the 009 will sound (overall) by purchasing a much cheaper lambda system, while the 007 is quite a different beast. I'm afraid you'll just have to try both for yourself (it is essential that the 007 is fed lots of clean power, the 009 is easier to drive) or just purchase blindly and hope for the best.
> 
> Cheers!


 

 haha...this is the kind of advice i love. someone who doesn't mince words. i'm actually leaning toward the mk.1 if i can find a good used pair...at about half the price of the sr009 it seems like the way to go...and i can pair it with a good amp as well. now, to find that mk.1...anyone? anyone?


----------



## Lan647

kugino said:


> haha...this is the kind of advice i love. someone who doesn't mince words. i'm actually leaning toward the mk.1 if i can find a good used pair...at about half the price of the sr009 it seems like the way to go...and i can pair it with a good amp as well. now, to find that mk.1...anyone? anyone?




Seems reasonable. It will either way be superior to your dynamic cans so I doubt you'll be disappointed. If you feel the signature is not to your liking then you can always go down the 009 route later on. 

The 007 mk1 is quite common on the headfi sales forum, look there regularly and it should show up soon (if there's not one there already, that is). Be aware that there are different revisions out there (70xxx, 71xxx and 72xxx serial numbers all sound different). The one I've heard that I like the most is a 709xx serial number.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Page 301 may help you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## nemomec

In my opinion every Stax model has their own magic and i think there are many various user prefers. But in my experience the SR-009 with a very good amp and a very good source is the Stax topline on pair with the SR Omega and followed very close by the SR-007 MK1 701xxx. Then comes the SR-007 MK1/MK2, SR 4070, SR Sigma´s (Pro, NB, 404) and for me the best Lambda model Nova Signature. The Lambda series is for the money very good but makes in realistic view only 70-80% performance of a good driven SR-009. There are also some older models SR-3, SR-5, SR-X they sounds very good and are incredible for the asked price on used market.


----------



## Earspeakers

nemomec said:


> In my opinion every Stax model has their own magic and i think there are many various user prefers. But in my experience the *SR-009 with a very good amp and a very good source is the Stax topline* on pair with the SR Omega and followed very close by the SR-007 MK1 701xxx. Then comes the SR-007 MK1/MK2, SR 4070, SR Sigma´s (Pro, NB, 404) and for me the *best Lambda model Nova Signature*. The Lambda series is for the money very good but makes in realistic view only 70-80% performance of a good driven SR-009. There are also some older models SR-3, SR-5, SR-X they sounds very good and are incredible for the asked price on used market.


 
  
 Ah, but I think you prove the point I was trying to make. Now I haven't heard a Lambda Nova Signature yet (have one coming in so will find out), but reviews say it is on the dark side. People use words differently to describe what they hear, I don't personally think "bright" and "dark" apply to Stax (they're all tonally neutral in that way I think) but rather "aggressive" or "laid back". Above, you picked the two most "laid back" (or dark, or whatever) phones of the lineup, showing that you have a preference for that sound. 
  
  
 Regardless of terms, I'm finding that I prefer a more aggressive Stax headphone (I only listen to classical music btw). If I had to choose only one, and considering the price difference, I'd likely pick a modern Lambda over the Omega line. 
  
 My point is that I think they're all perfect and which one you like depends on your taste 
  
 Edit: tldr elaborating the point
  
 With most audio, well most any product line, as you go up the lineup the items do get better. Most often the top end is marginal improvements too. But, the flagship is usually generally recognized as the best of the line. Same goes for audio, the top models usually have more features, better designs and/or parts. With Stax however I'm not sure this really applies. I mean the difference between a entry level dynamic can and the top of the line Sennheiser is huge, and in fact you can easily point to components (cheap versus expensive magnets, etc) as to the cause. But Stax?
  
 What do we have? A air capacitor. For manufacturing efficiency they seem to use essentially the same membranes across the lineup. What does that leave for differentiators across the lineup?
  

*Cable.* With these voltages (AC/DC) I'm dubious cable matters at all. And in fact, you can do a simple test (which I did) which is add extension cables and see if it sounds different. I can't hear any. So any better cable is probably just look and feel. 
*Frame materials.* Big differences here physically (e.g. plastic vs aluminum), but does leather make much difference compared to vinyl? At most it might slightly affect it tonally
*Structural* This makes a big difference? How far away the driver is from your ear, the shape, etc, but again I'd maintain this _mostly_ changes the tonal characteristics
  
 Shrug ... I'd be frustrated as a Stax engineer, I mean what can you really change and improve?


----------



## edstrelow

earspeakers said:


> *Cable.* With these voltages (AC/DC) I'm dubious cable matters at all. And in fact, you can do a simple test (which I did) which is add extension cables and see if it sounds different. I can't hear any. So any better cable is probably just look and feel.
> *Frame materials.* Big differences here physically (e.g. plastic vs aluminum), but does leather make much difference compared to vinyl? At most it might slightly affect it tonally
> *Structural* This makes a big difference? How far away the driver is from your ear, the shape, etc, but again I'd maintain this _mostly_ changes the tonal characteristics
> 
> Shrug ... I'd be frustrated as a Stax engineer, I mean what can you really change and improve?


 
 You can and should change a lot. Try my sorbothane mods and you will see.  I have been on this jag for almost 2 years now and it is clear to me and at least some others who have also tried sorbothane damping that there there is a big opportunity/need to redsign stax phones to get rid of the resonance issues. The sorbothane cleans up the sound so much that I would say you are hearing lots of resonance in addition to the drivers. The discussions  I read here of the sonic differences between Lambdas, 007's and 009's just strike me as beside the point. My sorbothane modded 404 and LNS lambdas sounded better than my unmodified 007.
  
 So,  far neither I nor anyone else has tested sorb  much with other headphone  makes, but so far as we have, this looks like a general problem in headphone design.
  
 I haven't heard an 009 but expect to do so next week at Canjam. I will be curious to see if it outperforms my sorbothane modified phones.


----------



## n3rdling

The earpads and cavity make a huge difference to the sound.  The raw drivers probably measure pretty similarly besides having different modes, but once you put them in a cup with an earpad that doesn't really matter.  The Lambdas don't even get a true seal, so their sub bass performance can't compare to the flagship models.


----------



## Earspeakers

edstrelow said:


> You can and should change a lot. Try my sorbothane mods and you will see.


 
  
 I'm planning on that, probably next year after I finish building a few amps here 


n3rdling said:


> The earpads and cavity make a huge difference to the sound.  The raw drivers probably measure pretty similarly besides having different modes, but once you put them in a cup with an earpad that doesn't really matter.  The Lambdas don't even get a true seal, so their sub bass performance can't compare to the flagship models.


 
 Agree to you and edstrelow. I'm not saying that design changes don't make a difference, but that since, as you say, the drivers are probably quite similar, different designs would indicate different results, not necessarily better results. This is generally true, but seems more the case with Staxen.


----------



## kugino

any thoughts on a mk.1 + 717 combo?


----------



## Moonhead

I second Lan647 opinion..

To my ears 007 MKI is as close you will get to the original live performance. 

Use to own 009, then switched to 007 MKI, tested both with KGSSHV.

Sadly I do not own any Stax gear now, because of financial reasons.


----------



## astrostar59

kugino said:


> any thoughts on a mk.1 + 717 combo?


 

 Yes, my 007 Mk2.5 was really nice with my 717. I solid my 007 to get the 009 but still have the 717.
 Many say the 717 is better than the stock 727, if you look around the forum and the 'other place'.
  
 007 and 717 = very strong system for the money IMO.


----------



## kugino

astrostar59 said:


> Yes, my 007 Mk2.5 was really nice with my 717. I solid my 007 to get the 009 but still have the 717.
> Many say the 717 is better than the stock 727, if you look around the forum and the 'other place'.
> 
> 007 and 717 = very strong system for the money IMO.


thanks for the info. seems like the going rate for a good pair of mk.1 is skyrocketing. I may prefer either a mk.2 or mk.2.5, which are relatively affordable given the strong dollar at the moment. what is the consensus between these models? I'd prefer to get one of these over the mk.1 if it's going to be $400-500 cheaper.


----------



## Lan647

kugino said:


> thanks for the info. seems like the going rate for a good pair of mk.1 is skyrocketing. I may prefer either a mk.2 or mk.2.5, which are relatively affordable given the strong dollar at the moment. what is the consensus between these models? I'd prefer to get one of these over the mk.1 if it's going to be $400-500 cheaper.




The SR-007 mk2s have a port in the transducer which prevents vacuum suction, unfortunately it also ruins the bass response. To get a good sound from
the mk2s you need to cover the port, I'm sure instructions are available for this somewhere. 

The mk2.5 is massively different from the other 007s, it's far more forward. The japanese mk2 (007A) is more true to the original 007 sound.


----------



## astrostar59

lan647 said:


> The SR-007 mk2s have a port in the transducer which prevents vacuum suction, unfortunately it also ruins the bass response. To get a good sound from
> the mk2s you need to cover the port, I'm sure instructions are available for this somewhere.
> 
> The mk2.5 is massively different from the other 007s, it's far more forward. The japanese mk2 (007A) is more true to the original 007 sound.


 

 I had the 007s Mk 2.5 for 1 years hard use, and loved the sound. I took them to David's who owned the MK1 007s for 11 years. He said at that time the sound was very similar. I replaced my lead on the 007s and I could;d see blocking off the bass port is really easy. I didn't do it as I sold them and got the 009s. IMO I would get the 007 Mk2 / 2.5s. The MK1s are getting to old, and no doubt if the seller is asking big money he will have hammered them over the years - solid use, no a casual listener. Also the cups on the Mk2s are better than the Mk1s, and the input fixing method of the leads is much improved over the Mk1s, it is too easy to snag and damage the cable on that model. Thing is, the 007s MK2 / 2/5s are still such a good headphone, and paired with a decent DAC will sound great. The 717 will drive them fine unless you listen to higher volumes (very loud). And they will scale well, if you went for a more powerful amp later on (KGSShv).
  
 The 007s are also quite forgiving of DACs and source. The 009s is not so much.


----------



## Lan647

astrostar59 said:


> I had the 007s Mk 2.5 for 1 years hard use, and loved the sound. I took them to David's who owned the MK1 007s for 11 years. He said at that time the sound was very similar. I replaced my lead on the 007s and I could;d see blocking off the bass port is really easy. I didn't do it as I sold them and got the 009s. IMO I would get the 007 Mk2 / 2.5s. The MK1s are getting to old, and no doubt if the seller is asking big money he will have hammered them over the years - solid use, no a casual listener. Also the cups on the Mk2s are better than the Mk1s, and the input fixing method of the leads is much improved over the Mk1s, it is too easy to snag and damage the cable on that model. Thing is, the 007s MK2 / 2/5s are still such a good headphone, and paired with a decent DAC will sound great. The 717 will drive them fine unless you listen to higher volumes (very loud). And they will scale well, if you went for a more powerful amp later on (KGSShv).
> 
> The 007s are also quite forgiving of DACs and source. The 009s is not so much.




With all due respect, the mk2,5 doesn't sound at all like any of the mk1s. Like I said, it's much more forward. 

I like the mk1s more, but I like the mk2,5 as well. It's a fun listen, kind of an O2 with a Grado twist. Mk1 is certainly a more "proper" sounding headphone though.


----------



## David1961

lan647 said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > I had the 007s Mk 2.5 for 1 years hard use, and loved the sound. I took them to David's who owned the MK1 007s for 11 years. He said at that time the sound was very similar.
> ...




When I said the 007mk1's sounded similar to the mk2.5's, this was while using the mk1's with the SRM-007t, and the mk2's with the BHSE.

The mk1's ( IMO ) are much better than the mk2's while both driven by the BHSE, and using the stock Mullard tubes with the BHSE the mk1's sounded better with some songs than the 009's, the PH tubes though have ( IMO ) taken the 009's to another improved level.


----------



## Earspeakers

Speaking of the 'high end' versus 'low end' Staxen, I happen to have a Lambda basic system SRS-2170. I had ordered the in-ear SR-003MK2​ system, but PJ mistakenly sent off the Basic. Which is fine, I'll use it to test out my amps where you don't want first music to be on a 009!
  
 So this morning I'm listening to a 4070 & SRM-323S​, then fired up the basic system 207 & SRM-252S​. Huge difference. The 207/252S is considerably warmer, livelier, three dimensional and involving. All the same detail seems to be there. On the downside, it _seems_ like there's less isolation between channels. On spiky passages I hear interference between the two channels. Artifact of a small low end amp, the 323S doesn't have this. 
  
 At any rate in a blind test I'd say the Lambda Basic/252S spanks the 4070/323S in a second! You might argue the 4070 is a speciality ear speaker and I'd agree, but I think the point is made. Yes I like my 009's better than the Basic, but how much? This is wholly unlike dynamic cans, the low end Sennheiser are clearly not as good as the top drawer units.


----------



## Moonhead

I have Never listen to mk2, but is has better pads plus the cable shouldnt have any issues as the MKI has, 
And that is Stated from Birgir himself, who clearly prefer the more delicate MKI. 

http://mjolnir-audio.com/?page_id=9

Other than that some have the Stax fart more that others, i had that a lot with 009, but not with MKI. 
So the MK2 seems to be one of the most reliable Stax without any issues, IMO.


----------



## astrostar59

earspeakers said:


> Speaking of the 'high end' versus 'low end' Staxen, I happen to have a Lambda basic system SRS-2170. I had ordered the in-ear SR-003MK2​ system, but PJ mistakenly sent off the Basic. Which is fine, I'll use it to test out my amps where you don't want first music to be on a 009!
> 
> So this morning I'm listening to a 4070 & SRM-323S​, then fired up the basic system 207 & SRM-252S​. Huge difference. The 207/252S is considerably warmer, livelier, three dimensional and involving. All the same detail seems to be there. On the downside, it _seems_ like there's less isolation between channels. On spiky passages I hear interference between the two channels. Artifact of a small low end amp, the 323S doesn't have this.
> 
> At any rate in a blind test I'd say the Lambda Basic/252S spanks the 4070/323S in a second! You might argue the 4070 is a speciality ear speaker and I'd agree, but I think the point is made. Yes I like my 009's better than the Basic, but how much? This is wholly unlike dynamic cans, the low end Sennheiser are clearly not as good as the top drawer units.


 
  


earspeakers said:


> Speaking of the 'high end' versus 'low end' Staxen, I happen to have a Lambda basic system SRS-2170. I had ordered the in-ear SR-003MK2​ system, but PJ mistakenly sent off the Basic. Which is fine, I'll use it to test out my amps where you don't want first music to be on a 009!
> 
> So this morning I'm listening to a 4070 & SRM-323S​, then fired up the basic system 207 & SRM-252S​. Huge difference. The 207/252S is considerably warmer, livelier, three dimensional and involving. All the same detail seems to be there. On the downside, it _seems_ like there's less isolation between channels. On spiky passages I hear interference between the two channels. Artifact of a small low end amp, the 323S doesn't have this.
> 
> At any rate in a blind test I'd say the Lambda Basic/252S spanks the 4070/323S in a second! You might argue the 4070 is a speciality ear speaker and I'd agree, but I think the point is made. Yes I like my 009's better than the Basic, but how much? This is wholly unlike dynamic cans, the low end Sennheiser are clearly not as good as the top drawer units.


 
 What you driving your 009s with? It makes a bigger difference than the lower models IMO. The 009s has massive potential, the lower models less so, but still sound better well amplified.


----------



## Earspeakers

astrostar59 said:


> What you driving your 009s with? It makes a bigger difference than the lower models IMO. The 009s has massive potential, the lower models less so, but still sound better well amplified.


 

 Absolutely I agree, at the moment all I have is the 323S, but there's a KGST almost finished (just need a few more resistors), plus a lineup of KGSSHV, Megatron, T2 and BHSE. 
  
 I'm expecting the 009 will spank everything else with one of these amps, and these observations are hardly exhaustive yet. But still, the 'lowly' Basic system has more music in it than anything else on the planet IMO.


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## lojay

Pulled a trigger on a Sanyo parts KGSSHV. Quickest decision I have made on Headfi yet. Very looking forward to joining the properly amped SR009 camp! Let's see how much it beats my HD800 + Teton / EC445 combo.


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## Michgelsen

kugino said:


> any thoughts on a mk.1 + 717 combo?


 
  
 I have been running that combo for years now, and have not felt the urge to upgrade since. A few months ago I even sold my 202 and 507, because in the end I always quickly came back to the SR-007 for its lifelike midrange and detailed, layered soundstage.
 Can it be improved upon? Yes, I think it could sound a bit tighter and more dynamic, and this is what I imagine a more expensive amp would give me, but I'm not willing to pay more for that, because the 717 + 007mk1 is already so good that I don't really care about that last bit. The longing for that last bit will probably never completely go away anyway.
  
 I find the 717 beautifully designed by the way, and it's not too large nor does it get very hot. I hope I will be able to enjoy the combo for many years to come.


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## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> Amps easily make FAR more difference than unit-to-unit or even pad variances on 009 can explain; even within flavors/builds of KGSShv.
> 
> So in summary: 009? Cool! It's a 009! It sounds GREAT!! KGSShv? Cool bro -- which one?


 
 Be carful, I got attacked here for even suggesting there may be KGSShv and KGSShv's as regards parts quality, sound of the on-board and off-board versions. Some folk here have no clue...


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## kugino

michgelsen said:


> I have been running that combo for years now, and have not felt the urge to upgrade since. A few months ago I even sold my 202 and 507, because in the end I always quickly came back to the SR-007 for its lifelike midrange and detailed, layered soundstage.
> Can it be improved upon? Yes, I think it could sound a bit tighter and more dynamic, and this is what I imagine a more expensive amp would give me, but I'm not willing to pay more for that, because the 717 + 007mk1 is already so good that I don't really care about that last bit. The longing for that last bit will probably never completely go away anyway.
> 
> I find the 717 beautifully designed by the way, and it's not too large nor does it get very hot. I hope I will be able to enjoy the combo for many years to come.


cool. thanks for this info. I'm still mulling how much I'm willing to spend on a pair of mk.1 or whether a new mk.2 for a few humdred less is a better investment...


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## astrostar59

michgelsen said:


> I have been running that combo for years now, and have not felt the urge to upgrade since. A few months ago I even sold my 202 and 507, because in the end I always quickly came back to the SR-007 for its lifelike midrange and detailed, layered soundstage.
> Can it be improved upon? Yes, I think it could sound a bit tighter and more dynamic, and this is what I imagine a more expensive amp would give me, but I'm not willing to pay more for that, because the 717 + 007mk1 is already so good that I don't really care about that last bit. The longing for that last bit will probably never completely go away anyway.
> 
> I find the 717 beautifully designed by the way, and it's not too large nor does it get very hot. I hope I will be able to enjoy the combo for many years to come.


 
 I have the 717 and won't be selling it.I used it with a 007 MK2.5 and was very happy. Then I heard the BHSE with it, and ;later the 009. IMO it is all good stuff. I will use it as a second system for when I visit my folks. The 009 does go another level though, especially on detail and bass slam and bass detail. The 007 IMO is very forgiving of front ends, so maybe easier to get a balanced setup? It was weird with my 007 + 717, most tracks were very nice, but some where outstanding, as though they suited the 007. With the 009s the spread widens, it is hard to explain. The cost of the 009s is nuts, but once you get the Stax bug, it is difficult to avoid going for them IMO.


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## astrostar59

kugino said:


> cool. thanks for this info. I'm still mulling how much I'm willing to spend on a pair of mk.1 or whether a new mk.2 for a few humdred less is a better investment...


 
 Get the 007 Mk2s. Newer, probably less used and will last a long time once you look after them. An 007 MK1 at big prices will have been round the block, be very 'used' and could have problems later. They may be 10 years old at least.
  
 Besides, if it did have a problem later, the drivers would be replaced with MK2s anyway. The lead entry is weak, the pads not as good etc. Yes there are Mk1 fans, but I was very happy with my Mk2s. I bought them second hand and they were mint, as new, low use. Look enough and you will find some owned by a casual user I am sure. Try not to get hung up on the MK1 thing is my advice. Good luck


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## kugino

astrostar59 said:


> Get the 007 Mk2s. Newer, probably less used and will last a long time once you look after them. An 007 MK1 at big prices will have been round the block, be very 'used' and could have problems later. They may be 10 years old at least.
> 
> Besides, if it did have a problem later, the drivers would be replaced with MK2s anyway. The lead entry is weak, the pads not as good etc. Yes there are Mk1 fans, but I was very happy with my Mk2s. I bought them second hand and they were mint, as new, low use. Look enough and you will find some owned by a casual user I am sure. Try not to get hung up on the MK1 thing is my advice. Good luck


hi. thanks for the sensible advice. that is the way I am leaning...I guess you read enough from mk.1 advocates and you start to think the mk.2s are no good, which I know is not the case. I understand well the power of nostalgia and that this often factors in to our biases about certain products. 

the strong dollar also makes getting a new pair very attractive...


----------



## Ali-Pacha

There's no mistake when you get some Stax 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## Lan647

There is obviously some confusion here and I'm going to clear it out right now. 

No, it's not as simple as the mk2s being more modern, more accessible and more reliable. Both of the mk2 models (SZ2, SZ3 = mk2, mk2,5 = japanese black/silver and international all black) have a sub-par bass response by highend standards unless you plug the ports. This is a very audible and very measurable fact. See below. 






Now, if you are willing to do the basic modification of plugging the port, the japanese mk2 is probably the safest bet. The mk2,5 is as I said very different, it's much more direct and forward sounding and not typical STAX at all. You may like this and you may not, but be aware that most people prefer the mk1s (and the japanese mk2) to it. That people tend to recommend the mk1s has nothing to do with either nostalgia nor other fantasy biases. They're still the best sounding Omegas produced to most ears, including my own.

Frankly, it's no wonder astrostar thinks the 009 is a massive improvement over the 007 if he's only lived with a factory-state SZ3.


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## Earspeakers

lan647 said:


> There is obviously some confusion here and I'm going to clear it out right now.


 
  
 Look again, the mk2 -3dB is at _30 Hz_. What is going on down at 30Hz and below? Not a lot, other than rumble from the street outside the concert hall. It's the bottom few notes on a few instruments down to maybe 25 Hz, I've never even played a piece that uses those bottom few notes on my grand piano*. For good reason too, music gets really muddy when you go down that low and it robs the rest of the more important parts (like the solo lines)
  
 No it's purely perceptual in the minds and ears of some people. Is it true for everybody? Who knows, doubtful. I'll note that audiofphilia is filled with examples of obsolete parts 'being considered' better than newer ones, for some reason or another. Personally I agree with the other poster to go with the latest rev. Chasing a mk X versus mk Y seems pointless to my mind. 
  
  
 * The bosendorfer concert grand is special in that it has a few extra even lower no other piano has. For no good reason, I think only one or two pieces actually were written for them. Actually there probably was a good technical reason, being that with those being the bottom notes, the other normal bottom end notes would be that much better, since they're no longer the boat anchors.


----------



## kugino

I have a Japanese sz2 model coming soon so I'll be happy to listen to it stock and then mod them down the line and see how they change. it'll be my first stax so I'm excited...


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## Earspeakers

I'd add that you can't be serious that Stax engineering would be so stupid as to roll off the bass in their top end models


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## MacedonianHero

lan647 said:


> There is obviously some confusion here and I'm going to clear it out right now.
> 
> No, it's not as simple as the mk2s being more modern, more accessible and more reliable. Both of the mk2 models (SZ2, SZ3 = mk2, mk2,5 = japanese black/silver and international all black) have a sub-par bass response by highend standards unless you plug the ports. This is a very audible and very measurable fact. See below.
> 
> ...


 
 I happen to own a SR-007Mk1 (in fact I'm listening to it right now) and damn this is one fine headphone. I am always so very satisfied when I put them on and think there can't be a better headphone out there...until I put on my SR-009s that is. Not a huge massive improvement, but enough for me to put them alone atop my list of "favourite headphones".


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## nemomec

lan647 said:


> There is obviously some confusion here and I'm going to clear it out right now.
> 
> No, it's not as simple as the mk2s being more modern, more accessible and more reliable. Both of the mk2 models (SZ2, SZ3 = mk2, mk2,5 = japanese black/silver and international all black) have a sub-par bass response by highend standards unless you plug the ports. This is a very audible and very measurable fact. See below.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don´t know where you get this charts, but in my experience the second is from the SR-009 not from the SR-007 MK2!?
  
 I have heard many SR-007 versions over the last years and the SR-007 A/MK2 SZ2xxx is a very good model and i prefer it over the SR-007 MK1 SZ1xxx. The best ist for me the SR-007 MK1 70xxx, the weakest the actual SR-007 A/MK2 SZ3xxx.


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## edstrelow

nemomec said:


> I don´t know where you get this charts, but in my experience the second is from the SR-009 not from the SR-007 MK2!?
> 
> I have heard many SR-007 versions over the last years and the SR-007 A/MK2 SZ2xxx is a very good model and i prefer it over the SR-007 MK1 SZ1xxx. The best ist for me the SR-007 MK1 70xxx, the weakest the actual SR-007 A/MK2 SZ3xxx.


 
  I concurr that the 007A does not have great extreme bass. On first getting mine I made exactly that comment , that compared to my 404 they has less at the bottom end. That is confirmed with the 404 charts.  I also remember being told by the likes of Spritzer that I was quite wrong.
  
 I also tried plugging the port, as was suggested by Spritzer and it definitely increased the bass. However the bass was boomy and unlistenable. Possibly a partial block could be tried. These days, the mod I am mainly interested in is damping with sorbothane.
  
 However I take issue with the interpretation of these charts. Customarily a frequency response is measured from 20 kHz to 20Hz, not 10 Hz because you can't hear below 20 so  I doubt that one can draw any meaningfull conclusion about  any response below 20 Hz and there may be an advantage in not having much response there.


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## astrostar59

lan647 said:


> There is obviously some confusion here and I'm going to clear it out right now.
> 
> No, it's not as simple as the mk2s being more modern, more accessible and more reliable. Both of the mk2 models (SZ2, SZ3 = mk2, mk2,5 = japanese black/silver and international all black) have a sub-par bass response by highend standards unless you plug the ports. This is a very audible and very measurable fact. See below.
> 
> ...


 

 I have heard the 007 MK1s actually. It was close in signature. The hang up on this is getting silly. To plug the ports is dead easy, takes 10 minutes with Blutac. And I am suspicious of your facts on the Japanese MK2s being different from the UK imported Mk2s? Mine were second hand, but originally imported via the UK main dealer Synergy who confirmed to me that they were the same model as the Japans versions albeit in black. If the buyer is worried here, maybe listen to both versions first (if possible). Over at the other place, folk seem to say by plugging the ports they get close. I actually really liked the 007s, and on my system they were not 'forward or direct at all' quite the opposite. Compared to the LNS, 507s and the 009s, they were darker, more laid back but full in the bass. I didn't have a problem with bass bloat or mid bass. If it was there, is was subtle. The 507s and 009s have more air and more obvious treble.
  
 IMO the 007s suite many digital systems as they are quite forgiving, whereas the 507, LNS and 009s less so. By buying the Mk2s IMO you are getting a great headphone, one of the best in the world. Don't get hung up on history. My advice. Good luck. PM me if you want more direct chat.


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## Lan647

earspeakers said:


> I'd add that you can't be serious that Stax engineering would be so stupid as to roll off the bass in their top end models


 
  
 You can clearly hear the difference in both bass extension and bass definition, at least I did. As you can see on the graphs I think it's very obvious that the mk2 has a roll-off. What the graph doesn't show so well is that you also get a noticeable mid-bass hump with the mk2s instead of a flat, sub-extended bass response. If you don't like what I'm trying to bring forth here then that's up to you. But you shouldn't go against it just on speculation alone, especially since I have experience with all the 007s mentioned and you don't.  
  
 There are several respected long-time STAX enthusiasts on these forums that I'm certain will back me up regarding the 007 vs 007 debate. 
  
  


nemomec said:


> I don´t know where you get this charts, but in my experience the second is from the SR-009 not from the SR-007 MK2!?
> 
> I have heard many SR-007 versions over the last years and the SR-007 A/MK2 SZ2xxx is a very good model and i prefer it over the SR-007 MK1 SZ1xxx. The best ist for me the SR-007 MK1 70xxx, the weakest the actual SR-007 A/MK2 SZ3xxx.


 
  
 The second graph is from the mk1, the first is from the mk2,5 SZ3. The SZ1 is the model I've had the least experience with but I agree with you on the 70xxx (709xx in my case) being the best. 
  
  


macedonianhero said:


> I happen to own a SR-007Mk1 (in fact I'm listening to it right now) and damn this is one fine headphone. I am always so very satisfied when I put them on and think there can't be a better headphone out there...until I put on my SR-009s that is. Not a huge massive improvement, but enough for me to put them alone atop my list of "favourite headphones".


 
  
 We've been here before Mac and you know my stance on the matter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. To me the extra "resolution" and "detail" of the 009 is not an improvement, I just find it to be brighter and less warm in the mid-bass region. To my ears the 009 is tuned more to the modern reference ideal, a sort of HD 800-ish signature which goes -1 on the warmth chart and +1 on the treble chart in order to wow you with greater "detail" and "air". Mind you, I do still enjoy the 009 with especially well-recorded music (far more than the mentioned HD 800) but the 007 connects me to the music in a way no other headphone has ever done. We obviously have different preferences and while the majority seems to prefer the 009 I also know there are those around here who agree with me. 
  
 A friend of mine is preparing a no-holds-barred KGSSHV that will hopefully be complete by the end of the summer. I will run both the 007 and the 009 out of it and see whether or not the game stats have changed.


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## Lan647

astrostar59 said:


> I have heard the 007 MK1s actually. It was close in signature. The hang up on this is getting silly. To plug the ports is dead easy, takes 10 minutes with Blutac. And I am suspicious of your facts on the Japanese MK2s being different from the UK imported Mk2s? Mine were second hand, but originally imported via the UK main dealer Synergy who confirmed to me that they were the same model as the Japans versions albeit in black. If the buyer is worried here, maybe listen to both versions first (if possible). Over at the other place, folk seem to say by plugging the ports they get close. I actually really liked the 007s, and on my system they were not 'forward or direct at all' quite the opposite. Compared to the LNS, 507s and the 009s, they were darker, more laid back but full in the bass. I didn't have a problem with bass bloat or mid bass. If it was there, is was subtle. The 507s and 009s have more air and more obvious treble.
> 
> IMO the 007s suite many digital systems as they are quite forgiving, whereas the 507, LNS and 009s less so. By buying the Mk2s IMO you are getting a great headphone, one of the best in the world. Don't get hung up on history. My advice. Good luck. PM me if you want more direct chat.


 

 If I'm not mistaken, the silver/black mk2 is the SZ2 and the all-black international model is the SZ3. I'll copy a few lines from an Innerfidelity review here: 

SR-007 Mk1 early version - different driver frame plus some minor material changes, older style carbon fiber box.
  
SR-007 Mk1 late version - the version tested here and the most common of the Mk1's, S/N either 7xxxx or SZ1-xxxx
 
SR-007A/SR-007Mk2 - S/N SZ2-xxxx, Stax change the earpads, how they sit and introduce a port to the earcups. Sound is a mixed bag depending on fit but can be fixed to sound pretty much like the Mk1.
 
SR-007A/SR-007Mk2 - S/N SZ3-xxxx, often called the Mk2.5, Stax supposedly change the diaphragm which results in a *much more forward sound signature.*

 EDIT: I'll drop this ball now, hehe. I feel I've taken up enough space now on this matter and I've shared what I wanted to share. I just think buyers should be aware of this stuff.


----------



## Earspeakers

lan647 said:


> You can clearly hear the difference in both bass extension and bass definition, at least I did. As you can see on the graphs I think it's very obvious that the mk2 has a roll-off. What the graph doesn't show so well is that you also get a noticeable mid-bass hump with the mk2s instead of a flat, sub-extended bass response. If you don't like what I'm trying to bring forth here then that's up to you. But you shouldn't go against it just on speculation alone, especially since I have experience with all the 007s mentioned and you don't.


 
  
 Sigh ... I said you can't prove there is no bass extension by the charts, so that therefore at most it's a subjective issue. The previous post claimed to have _proof_ of the apparent lack of bass, but it didn't. In other words, I'm not disagreeing with you, but neither am I agreeing with you because I haven't heard them all as you delightfully point out.


----------



## astrostar59

> A friend of mine is preparing a no-holds-barred KGSSHV that will hopefully be complete by the end of the summer. I will run both the 007 and the 009 out of it and see whether or not the game stats have changed.


 
 Dude, you are telling folk off here for saying the 007 MK2/2./5 is ok, but I see you are now admitting your own perceptions on this are based on your setup i.e. Stax 600 amp. Please come back here later when you have the KGSShv or heard a WOO WES or BHSE. The 009 is massively ahead, it SCALES with the amps and front end. That is the fantastic thing about those headphones. I agree, the 009s through my 717 amp is not so much a jump from the 007s, more detail but can reveal SQ issue upstream. What we are doing (as an example) is putting a 300K speaker on the end of a 10K amp and source setup. High end speakers can and do sound worse in such a system. The lower end speakers can be more forgiving.
  
 Going back to the 007s, I liked the Mk2.5s in my setting, and the warm and darkish signature was fine on digital, and very forgiving. And the sub bass was very good. The response was there, I would say it was a bit slower and less detailed in the bass than the 009s, and the slam was less, but it was NOT bass shy, sub or mid bass. Remember the 007 is quite hungry, and the Stax tube amps struggle with it IMO. The 717 I found had more dynamics in that area.
  
 I went for the 009s finally as I got more detail without the harshness. I believe this is because I have been careful in DAC choice and the KGSShv is quite a warm amp remarkably for a SS design. As loud as I like, no digital fatigue, but tons of detail and ambiance.


----------



## Earspeakers

Speaking of bass, I've spent more time with my new 009's. 
  
 This time I listened to Nielson 5 with the San Francisco Sym Orchestra. I'm very familiar of the group, having played with them and played in Davis Hall for many years. I'm also quite familiar with this recording, listening to it on nearly every system and experiment I've done over some 20 years. In addition to enjoying the music, it's a great test of how well a system can take the paint off the walls. A full orchestra at their peak, wonderfully recorded, and this symphony goes from small chamber sections to full bore in every movement.
  
 How did the SR-009 handle it? Perfectly. I mean _perfectly_. I've never heard the recording performed so well, it's flawless. Or at least it's so perfect that I can't detect what if anything it does wrong. Certainly not the bass, I don't know what I was saying before. Either I've adjusted to it (likely), something was wrong like I had my new headphones on backwards, or something, but there's zero bass issues. Zero. This is the first time I've heard a recorded symphony at full bore (volume) without distortion, which is one reason I use it for a test. 
  
 So, love the 009's, can't hear anything they do wrong.


----------



## Lan647

astrostar59 said:


> Dude, you are telling folk off here for saying the 007 MK2/2./5 is ok, but I see you are now admitting your own perceptions on this are based on your setup i.e. Stax 600 amp. Please come back here later when you have the KGSShv or heard a WOO WES or BHSE. The 009 is massively ahead, it SCALES with the amps and front end. That is the fantastic thing about those headphones. I agree, the 009s through my 717 amp is not so much a jump from the 007s, more detail but can reveal SQ issue upstream. What we are doing (as an example) is putting a 300K speaker on the end of a 10K amp and source setup. High end speakers can and do sound worse in such a system. The lower end speakers can be more forgiving.
> 
> Going back to the 007s, I liked the Mk2.5s in my setting, and the warm and darkish signature was fine on digital, and very forgiving. And the sub bass was very good. The response was there, I would say it was a bit slower and less detailed in the bass than the 009s, and the slam was less, but it was NOT bass shy, sub or mid bass. Remember the 007 is quite hungry, and the Stax tube amps struggle with it IMO. The 717 I found had more dynamics in that area.
> 
> I went for the 009s finally as I got more detail without the harshness. I believe this is because I have been careful in DAC choice and the KGSShv is quite a warm amp remarkably for a SS design. As loud as I like, no digital fatigue, but tons of detail and ambiance.


 

 Sorry, I think I should have pointed out that my comparisons were done using another rig at a friend's place. He has an extensively modified 007TII with lots of parts switched out in favor of expensive, premium ones and it drives two 007s with serious authority. I have NOT however heard the 007s or 009s out of a KGSSHV or BHSE, but in my experience the 007 scales just as well and the 009 never changes to the (imo) superior tonal signature and musical satisfaction of the 007. 
  
 I presume you know that the KGSSHV is essentially based on the 727 but has a superior power supply, and the BHSE is based on the old STAX T2 I think. In the heart of it, they are all STAX designs from the beginning and while I won't comment on the difference a KGSSHV would make to the 009, I'm a bit on the fence as to it being THAT massive. I've seen people who, even with the BHSE driving both, still prefer the 007. I won't speculate to much though, you might be right who knows. We'll see what the KGSSHV does to both. 
  
 I also don't think the extreme price = extreme performance idea is necessarily as black/white in practice as you make it out to be, but that's another discussion. Unfortunately in hi-fi I'm more of a sceptic than an optimist and sometimes, what some consider to be massive differences I consider to be minor and even non-existant.


----------



## astrostar59

> SR-007A/SR-007Mk2 - S/N SZ3-xxxx, often called the Mk2.5, Stax supposedly change the diaphragm which results in a *much more forward sound signature.*


 
  
 Yes, I read that before I bought my 007s. It didn't put me off one bit. If forward meant (to Inner Fidelity) midrange, then I liked it. If it meant less bass bloat, then I also liked it. Dude, I really like the Mk2.5s. With my 717 they sounded great, really a big jump up from my LNS and previous LN models I had, and a demo 507 I tried in the UK. 
  
 Ok, lets say we go with your 'massive' difference in the Mk1 v Mk2.5, (which I say is slight and IMO not a deal breaker, or that important) then the guy will be buying a really old and probably well used (hammered) unit. Lets face it, if the 0007 mK1 is highish price, then the seller will have killed it for sure. 10-13 years hard use, on and off the head, dropped, dust, cable entry snagged a few times, drivers may or may not be worn or damaged, frames may vibrate on bassy tracks, the cups may need replacing, the headband may have metal fatigue, the plug may have corrosion. Oh I could go on and on.... hey they might have hair glow ingrained into the cups like a pair of LNS I bought from Walrus UK.
  
 IMO buy buy BUY the NEW 007 MK2.5s with a warranty, have them from new, or do like I did, and find an as new pair hardly used. Many folk buy Stax gear and don't find much time to use it. I sold my 007s Mk2.5 for the same price I paid for them. It is a no brainer IMO.
  
 Yeah, lets bang on about the Mk1s. But they are a really OLD model, replacement drivers would be the 2.5 now, the cups are worse than the 2.5, the cable entry is weaker than the 2.5. I would have kept my 007s if I had the liquid cash.
  
 This is exhausting. I am going to put on my 009s now and listen to some Ramsmtein Ha Ha.


----------



## astrostar59

> I don't know what I was saying before. Either I've adjusted to it (likely), something was wrong like I had my new headphones on backwards, or something, but there's zero bass issues.


 
 I think they run in. My 009s were great off the bat but a bit tight or light in the bass. I am convinced they run in and loosen up. Maybe the diagram, maybe the glue, dunno. But I concur the 009s are superb.


----------



## astrostar59

lan647 said:


> Sorry, I think I should have pointed out that my comparisons were done using another rig at a friend's place. He has an extensively modified 007TII with lots of parts switched out in favor of expensive, premium ones and it drives two 007s with serious authority. I have NOT however heard the 007s or 009s out of a KGSSHV or BHSE, but in my experience the 007 scales just as well and the 009 never changes to the (imo) superior tonal signature and musical satisfaction of the 007.
> 
> I presume you know that the KGSSHV is essentially based on the 727 but has a superior power supply, and the BHSE is based on the old STAX T2 I think. In the heart of it, they are all STAX designs from the beginning and while I won't comment on the difference a KGSSHV would make to the 009, I'm a bit on the fence as to it being THAT massive. I've seen people who, even with the BHSE driving both, still prefer the 007. I won't speculate to much though, you might be right who knows. We'll see what the KGSSHV does to both.
> 
> I also don't think the extreme price = extreme performance idea is necessarily as black/white in practice as you make it out to be, but that's another discussion. Unfortunately in hi-fi I'm more of a sceptic than an optimist and sometimes, what some consider to be massive differences I consider to be minor and even non-existant.


 

 This is getting interesting. I know the 717 / 727 was a KG design yes, but did you know Stax wrecked the sound with the feedback mod which KG didn't want? The 727 is a very scaled back design if you compare it with a 450v off-board KGSShv. More current, bigger PS, better parts, more volts on the rails, bigger heat sinks, in fact not much is the same really dude. Yes they are amplifiers, that's about it.
  
 Listen to the KGSShv off-board or the BHSE with the 009s v 007s and then come back here.


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## Ali-Pacha

I haven't waited for such endless debates to choose my path : to get as much Stax models as I can, and enjoy all of them so far 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


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## arnaud

I find reducing the differences between the 009 and any 007 to just tonality to be very reducing. I'd make such judgement from short term listening or if I only owned very crappy records with no soundstage. But spending these past few years with the 009 and various iterations of the omega 2 have me far from thinking of the 009 as a bling bling version of the O2 with elevated mid/treble. 
Its dynamics, its precision in terms of instrument layering / placement in both width and depth, its virtual lack of any obvious coloration, its clean transients / chameleon like characteristics make the 009 far ahead from the O2mk1 in my rig. The only time I reach for the O2 is when the recording calls for it. It almost never happens nowadays with my source.

Of course ranking is likely to evolve once the bhse gets here (any day apparently), but given the traights of the O2, it's hard to imagine it would come up ahead of the 009. I expect the 007 to scale much more than the 009 with the bhse but not a total transformation in all the intrinsic phone characteristics.

Arnaud


----------



## Earspeakers

astrostar59 said:


> I think they run in. My 009s were great off the bat but a bit tight or light in the bass. I am convinced they run in and loosen up. Maybe the diagram, maybe the glue, dunno.


 
  
Doubtful
  


> Drivers are run in with pink noise over one week prior to shipment to the assembly facility. When the assembled headphone comes back, it goes through another one week phase of run in with music and performance checks. In any case the assembled product QC is done at Stax and shipment done by the Stax office. During the run in of the drivers, there are sometimes early failures so this is how we ensure the shipped product will perform in a stable manner.
 
  
 Certainly the 009's get this treatment, if not even more. Additionally I've only had them less than a week and I haven't played them a lot. The only thing that can change in that time with this is my brain, and in fact our brain does rewire itself in response to audio stimulus.


----------



## astrostar59

earspeakers said:


> Doubtful
> 
> 
> Certainly the 009's get this treatment, if not even more. Additionally I've only had them less than a week and I haven't played them a lot. The only thing that can change in that time with this is my brain, and in fact our brain does rewire itself in response to audio stimulus.


 

 It is fascinating. I think you may be right there. For example when adding a new component to a hifi system, I found the difference is often quite marked, or a wow factor. Then you get accustomed to that, and it becomes the norm. BUT if you go back to your old gear, it can prove disappointing, well we hope that happens! In my case, going back to my 717 amp is like that, but after a while you start enjoying it again. Also if I listen to (for example) Genesis trick of the Tail, it sounds nice but not better than my recollection of it when I was 18 and listening on a cassette player with old Pioneer headphones. We get to expect more, closer to the source, get greedy and demand it. Imagine going back on a PC or Mac from the 90s with a dail-up modem, Ha Ha, see how long it is before you sling it out of the window.
  
 IMO I like music so much, I don't care if I get used to the SQ level on offer, it just IMO gets me closer to the master tape, the artist. The other thing is it gets me using it more. I had years of a love and hate of digital, or digititous some call it. Finally I seem to be relaxed and happy. The 009s and the 007s just become less hifi and more music, forget the electronics, and enjoy yourself.
  
  
 Seriously though, my LNS sounded very good before I sold them 3 years back. The level Stax generally attained from the start was already very high. The challenge for me was finding a way around the Lambda treble emphasis or edge, exasperated by digital sources as opposed to decent vinyl (smoother?) sources. Finally I think the 007s and 009s get around that, but still need a good (smooth) source. A bright DAC + a bright amp + the 009s/.507s = no fun. The 007s tames such sources a bit. Maybe that was the design direction of that model? The Japanese are detail crazy, it seems a lot of their tube amps are leaning towards a brighter balance, on the ones I had come across that is (Audio Note Japan) whereas European and US customers less so? It seems that way in the hifi press and reading forums over the last decade or so.


----------



## Earspeakers

astrostar59 said:


> It is fascinating. I think you may be right there.


 
  
 Yes it's well established. At night our brains turn chemical memories into long term storage (neural nets), in addition to repairing itself. With audio, any musician will tell you that our brains adapt to sound over a few days. Whatever you hear at first will change as your brain rewires itself. This is all in the neocortex (new cortex) which only mammals have. This is why animals possessing only a cortex (e.g. lizards) are not capable of individual learning. 
  
 Which is why I chuckle at much of audiophila, poor folks don't realize how much their self rewiring brain is costing them. For me, my brain is permanently wired to how music sounds _within_ a group, which is why I need detail and accuracy. Sound staging? It actually sounds _wrong_ to me, believe it or not. I'm used to hearing music from within the group, not the audience. Which is why I like headphones so much. 
  
 Having said that I've got a Stax Sigma being repaired and am very curious how it sounds. I'm expecting for it not to be my favorite, but we shall see.


----------



## MacedonianHero

lan647 said:


> We've been here before Mac and you know my stance on the matter
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The SR-007s are warm, no doubt...that is a colouration. Yes, the SR-009s are brighter, but not bright per say (especially depending on your amp/DAC/source; not just the amp!...which many forget to include). I'd suggest you review both FR response graphs on innerfidelity.com...might help sort things out for you a bit. If the warmer colouration (with less detail and air) of the SR-007 gets you going, then great. But as stated, my position owning both with 2 amps that drive them very well and a DAC that I am exceedingly happy with (and I've heard the SR-007 Mk1 from a DIY T2/PWD2 rig), there is no doubt in my mind which are the superior headphone. As I mentioned, I love the SR-007s and put them in my top 5 headphones of all time...just not #1.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Old round drivers (SR-5, SR-X, SR-Gamma) all share the same kind of sound. Lots of mids, small soundstage, and some variations on extension and details. Fun all the way, especially the oldest ones, but Pro ones are the best IMO (I love my Gamma Pro).
 Lambda series are more airy / diffuse, with more details and sometimes more bass slam. They sound more like the idea of "ethereal electrostatic sound" one may have.
  
 For me, SR-009 are the sum of all the advantages of Lambda / old SR-xx series as they share the family sound, but they go further in every way (details, extension, bass slam, soundstage). On the other hand, SR-007 have a very unique sound : kinda laid back and tinted (sound seems to come from a kind of distance), plenty of bass but needing an ironfist control, relaxing but very detailled, and maybe the best soundstage / layering if you consider this particular distance to the sound as a part of it.
  
 Sigma are completely different because of their very bumpy FR, but they are more alive than SR-007 with low-end amplification (Lambda drivers BTW).
  
 2 cents / YMMV.

 Ali


----------



## paradoxper

arnaud said:


> *Its dynamics, its precision in terms of instrument layering / placement in both width and depth, its virtual lack of any obvious coloration, its clean transients / chameleon like characteristics make the 009 far ahead from the O2mk1 in my rig. The only time I reach for the O2 is when the recording calls for it. It almost never happens nowadays with my source.
> 
> Of course ranking is likely to evolve once the bhse gets here (any day apparently), but given the traights of the O2, it's hard to imagine it would come up ahead of the 009. I expect the 007 to scale much more than the 009 with the bhse but not a total transformation in all the intrinsic phone characteristics.*
> 
> Arnaud


 
 Explains it all for me as well. Further, it would seem with either a BHSE/T2 the 009 is superior to the mk 1, which I think will make us both very happy.


----------



## Lan647

macedonianhero said:


> The SR-007s are warm, no doubt...that is a colouration. Yes, the SR-009s are brighter, but not bright per say (especially depending on your amp/DAC/source; not just the amp!...which many forget to include). I'd suggest you review both FR response graphs on innerfidelity.com...might help sort things out for you a bit. If the warmer colouration (with less detail and air) of the SR-007 gets you going, then great. But as stated, my position owning both with 2 amps that drive them very well and a DAC that I am exceedingly happy with (and I've heard the SR-007 Mk1 from a DIY T2/PWD2 rig), there is no doubt in my mind which are the superior headphone. As I mentioned, I love the SR-007s and put them in my top 5 headphones of all time...just not #1.


 
  
 You speak almost as if your word is law and you have a stone table to prove it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Comparing measurement data rarely tells the whole story in my experience, that I included them earlier was really just to give a visual representation of the difference between the 007s.
  
 It is true though that the 009 indeed has a slight upper hand on paper. They appear much more similar to me though on paper than they are in practice. And Innerfidelity doesn't have data of the earlier mk1s (which I like the most), so it's kind of irrelevant I think. 
  
 Anyway, the 009 may very well be the slightly more technically accurate driver. I don't put much thought into that though. The SR-007 are warmer, yes. A little darker, yes. But to me they are more natural sounding than the SR-009. I simply like the warmer, more old-school sound I guess and find that it is not only more pleasing to listen to, but more realistic as well. I do NOT however find the SR-007 any less detailed. It's just that it's more subdued treble and upper midrange make it appear so. Neither do I find the 007 to be an immediately colored sounding headphone. 
  
 As I said, I'm not the only one who prefers the 007 to the 009. Just deal with it my man


----------



## karlgerman

But if you want to hear the aggressive tone of a Saxophone solo or Cello string, its almost impossible with my 007 mk2.
 Older omegas might sound better but after some serious hearing competitions the 009 is the one for me.
  
 I was hoping that there will be a increase of accuracy with a KGSS or a BHSE.
 And it is, but the 009 is still way beyond the 007 to my ears.
  
 I liked the 007 very much for many years and it was fine for easy listening. Maybe i try a mod-thing, otherwise i will have sell it.
 I dont want him to end in bitter fate like my SR-404 Earspeakers in a box in the attic.


----------



## MacedonianHero

lan647 said:


> You speak almost as if your word is law and you have a stone table to prove it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have absolutely no issues with anyone preferring anything over anything here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...this is all personal preferences in the end too. But my point of view is from someone who owns both now and has for 2+ years gone back and forth hundreds of times (and as recently as last night) on amps that are more that up to the task to drive both and with a source to match. I was sharing my point of view...isn't that what we do around here?
  


karlgerman said:


> But if you want to hear the aggressive tone of a Saxophone solo or Cello string, its almost impossible with my 007 mk2.
> Older omegas might sound better but after some serious hearing competitions the 009 is the one for me.
> 
> I was hoping that there will be a increase of accuracy with a KGSS or a BHSE.
> ...


 
  
 Pretty much somes up my experiences.


----------



## Lan647

macedonianhero said:


> I have absolutely no issues with anyone preferring anything over anything here  ...this is all personal preferences in the end too. But my point of view is from someone who owns both now and has for 2+ years gone back and forth hundreds of times (and as recently as last night) on amps that are more that up to the task to drive both and with a source to match. I was sharing my point of view...isn't that what we do around here?




Great! 

I'm actually considering a KGSSHV myself, just waiting to start working so the $$$ fill up. I have a 009 on loan and it would sure be nice to spend some time with the combo.


----------



## Downrange

Thanks, LAN for posting that info about the porting.  I think I see what happened there.  Stax got some complaints about the Stax "fart" in the O2s and stupidly put a port in.
  
 Didn't know that, but always thought the bass on my SZ1s was phenomenal, and glad I bought in when I did!


----------



## Ali-Pacha

downrange said:


> Stax got some complaints about the Stax "fart" in the O2s and stupidly put a port in.
> 
> Didn't know that, but always thought the bass on my SZ1s was phenomenal, and glad I bought in when I did!


 
 SR-009 do fart too, but less than SR-007 SZ1 (I own both)
 Maybe because they have less clamping. Don't know if there's a port on them.

 Ali


----------



## negura

A lot of "romantic" SR007 love in some of the last few posts. That's fine and yeah they are great headphones and very pleasant. I enjoyed them a lot. I have no doubt though that the SR009s are imo the more transparent transducers and allow a deeper insight into the music. The clarity, detail and articulation are at a whole other level and a benchmark. Neither of them is perfect, but which transducers really are.


----------



## Downrange

Music, romance, what's not to like?  Personally, I've never heard the 009s and would love to hear them on my systems.  But not enough to buy them.  All's I know is the 007s are miles better than anything else I have for a comparison, and I'm keeping them.


----------



## Earspeakers

karlgerman said:


> But if you want to hear the aggressive tone of a Saxophone solo or Cello string, its almost impossible with my 007 mk2.


 
  
 So then, what is the most aggressive Stax earspeakers? 507?


----------



## Michgelsen

The HE60 does the aggresive tone of some instruments well, I recall. It has a really good tone for classical, better than the 507. (from memory)
  
 Edit: but maybe I shouldn't say that to you, Earspeakers, because then you'd have to buy it like every other Stax out there!


----------



## Earspeakers

michgelsen said:


> The HE60 does the aggresive tone of some instruments well, I recall. It has a really good tone for classical, better than the 507. (from memory)
> 
> Edit: but maybe I shouldn't say that to you, Earspeakers, because then you'd have to buy it like every other Stax out there!


 

 Sennheiser? No that's safe from my predations ...


----------



## kugino

507 vs 407? about $200 price difference between the two. have read that the 507 sound signature is more similar to the sr009 (as compared to the sr007)...been thinking about picking up a pair. would appreciate some thoughts from those who've heard both. thanks.


----------



## Michgelsen

Sorry, have not heard both, but have owned the 507 and other Lambdas. I can say that for me, with my average sized head, the new head band with clicks is an improvement over the standard headband, providing a better fit and seal, and the leather earpads are nice as well. There's also the more expensive cable. If the difference is only $200 (at the dealer!) as you say, I think it's safe to say that the price difference goes mainly (or only?) into the build quality. You can make your own conclusions about the sound difference, I think...
  
 There are a few comparisons between the 407 and 507 in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/592797/the-stax-sr-507-appreciation-thread


----------



## NoPants

only difference is the headband


----------



## Michgelsen

earspeakers said:


> Sennheiser? No that's safe from my predations ...


 
  
 Why is that? The HE60 can sound truly, amazingly wonderful with classical music. It's a bit bright, and very airy and detailed. It has little bass, too little to be an all-rounder for me, and it can be subject to dust problems, but its midrange tone is sublime IMO. Don't dismiss it because it's not a Stax. Feel free to dismiss it because of its weaknesses, of course.


----------



## karlgerman

earspeakers said:


> So then, what is the most aggressive Stax earspeakers? 507?


 
 I don´t know them all.
 When i compared my Martin Logan´s ReQest loudspeakers to the 007 at the time, i often remarked a softness on the 007 that i felt too unrealistic.
 And that was before the 009 was on the market. So i am very pleased the 009 came out, that could handle this and a other frequencies, a lot better.
 Lambdas are nice and you get a lot of airy sound the Stax is known for. 
  
 A example, on the Anna Maria Jopek /Pat Metheny CD "UPOJENIE", which is in superb sound quality by the way,
 the song "Zupelnie Inna Ja (Always and Forever)" at 2:43 the Sax solo should have the harshness i missed with the 007 Stax.
  
 Now i upgraded the Logans to the Summit X, with much better Bass performance and a better mid/ high Electrostatic Panel. Yes, it will go on and on and on.
 But the sound level on both systems is acceptable for now and the most criticism i do is recording quality of some music i like.


----------



## Tachikoma

For anyone who finds the O2 too "hi-fi" and polite, try removing the springs under the pads. The pads won't rotate as easily anymore, but I like the result.


----------



## arnaud

> Originally Posted by *karlgerman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Now i upgraded the Logans to the Summit X, with much better Bass performance and a better mid/ high Electrostatic Panel. Yes, it will go on and on and on.
> But the sound level on both systems is acceptable for now and the most criticism i do is recording quality of some music i like.


 
  
 I haven't listened to ML's in years. It used to not be much my cup of tea with disjointed bass and disjointed treble while we're at it. You seem to be satisfied with the Summit X, which is saying something if you have a BHSE/SR009 (many speakers sound tonally off to me except for the few good ones here and there). Did ML evolve for good in the past 15 years?


----------



## edstrelow

earspeakers said:


> So then, what is the most aggressive Stax earspeakers? 507?


 
 I find all the Stax aggressive until they have been damped with sorbothane. That at least is what I hear and I hope others will as well when I show some at Canjam. I have come to believe that there is a lot of audible resonance in headphones, not just Stax. Sorbothane is one of the few materials which actually gets rid of it effectively, by converting it to heat.  The resonance adds a false ambience to the sound plus a harshness. Get rid of it and everything sounds sweeter, more open and more dynamic.


----------



## karlgerman

arnaud said:


> I haven't listened to ML's in years. It used to not be much my cup of tea with disjointed bass and disjointed treble while we're at it. You seem to be satisfied with the Summit X, which is saying something if you have a BHSE/SR009 (many speakers sound tonally off to me except for the few good ones here and there). Did ML evolve for good in the past 15 years?


 
 The Summit, Summit X, Montis and the new Monolith are the "009" in Martin Logans development.
  
 My Summit X for example has two Bass units in every loudspeaker, driven with a own digital Amp for each bass speaker.
 This is, comparing to the slow and queasy bass punch performance of the old ReQuest, a different story.
 The panel presentation airy and fast, close to the Stax, but still a loudspeaker.
  
 Sometimes i enjoy the stage-presentation more than the analytic of the headphone. 
 It depends on the mood i´m in and i´m really thankful to have the opportunity to choose.


----------



## Earspeakers

michgelsen said:


> Why is that? The HE60 can sound truly, amazingly wonderful with classical music. It's a bit bright, and very airy and detailed. It has little bass, too little to be an all-rounder for me, and it can be subject to dust problems, but its midrange tone is sublime IMO. Don't dismiss it because it's not a Stax. Feel free to dismiss it because of its weaknesses, of course.


 
  
 Because I already have a 207, 307, 009, 007, 4070, Sigma, Lambda Nova Sig, 404 Sig, 404LE, 003mk2 and SR-5 Gold. Not interested in chasing other brands on top of it. I also get the impression they have different pinouts and amping requirements, ugh, no thanks. I'm finishing up a KGST, KGSSHV, Megatron and T2 to boot.
  


edstrelow said:


> I find all the Stax aggressive until they have been damped with sorbothane. That at least is what I hear and I hope others will as well when I show some at Canjam. I have come to believe that there is a lot of audible resonance in headphones, not just Stax. Sorbothane is one of the few materials which actually gets rid of it effectively, by converting it to heat.  The resonance adds a false ambience to the sound plus a harshness. Get rid of it and everything sounds sweeter, more open and more dynamic.


 
  
 Hm, not me. In the past I've found the following to be aggressive
  

Beyerdynamic cans
Oris Horns, in a soft punching bag sort of way
Many various dynamic speakers
  
 Stax just sound like music


----------



## Lan647

I may be wrong here, but from my memory the 507 is more aggressive sounding than the 407. They have the same drivers but the 507 uses different earpads (always makes a difference to some degree), headband arc and cable. 
  
 Anyways, I have a 407 and it's a nice headphone for sure. Compared to the 009 it's a tad less refined with less extended and controlled bass and it's a bit brighter up top. The 009 also sounds bigger with more precise imaging. But overall, quite similar (I believe they use a very similar diaphragm).


----------



## Earspeakers

lan647 said:


> I may be wrong here, but from my memory the 507 is more aggressive sounding than the 407. They have the same drivers but the 507 uses different earpads (always makes a difference to some degree), headband arc and cable.


 
  
 Something generally overlooked is how the headphone feels on your head, and how that affects the sound subjectively. 
  
 For example, the 207 Basic and 307 sound almost exactly the same on an objective basis, however the listening experience _subjectively_ is quite different due to the difference in construction. The 207 is much more comfortable. Lighter (at least it _feels_ lighter) smaller and lighter cable, a nice black instead of the brown, etc. I like them better than the 307's despite identical drivers. 
  
 In comparison the 009 does sound different objectively, but subjectively the vastly superior construction also enhances the overall sound.


----------



## georgep

The 207 has different drivers than the 307, 407 and 507 (which all share the same driver).


----------



## Earspeakers

georgep said:


> The 207 has different drivers than the 307, 407 and 507 (which all share the same driver).


 

 Ah, good to know, I thought they were the same on the whole lineup. Maybe it's not subjective after all then, do you know what the difference is?


----------



## Tachikoma

earspeakers said:


> Because I already have a 207, 307, 009, 007, 4070, Sigma, Lambda Nova Sig, 404 Sig, 404LE, 003mk2 and SR-5 Gold. Not interested in chasing other brands on top of it. I also get the impression they have different pinouts and amping requirements, ugh, no thanks. I'm finishing up a KGST, KGSSHV, Megatron and T2 to boot.
> 
> 
> Hm, not me. In the past I've found the following to be aggressive
> ...


 

 Well, the HE60 is supposed to be OK with Stax's pro bias (580V) although its spec'ed a bit lower.


----------



## wink

The HE60 bias is 600v, but should have a 5 megohm resistor placed in the bias line to work on the Stax 580V output.


----------



## Earspeakers

I'm on fire with an out of control addiction and you guys are like "Here, have some lighter fluid". 
  
 Nope. Not gonna touch. nope nope nope


----------



## wink

Quote:Earspeakers 





> I'm on fire with an out of control addiction and you guys are like "Here, have some lighter fluid".
> 
> Nope. Not gonna touch. nope nope nope


 
 Get a Senn HE60 - You know you want to..........


----------



## Earspeakers

wink said:


> Get a Senn HE60 - You know you want to..........


 

 Even if I wanted to they appear to be unobtanium.


----------



## wink

Then, how come I have 2?
  
 btw, they're NOT for sale.....


----------



## kothganesh

wink said:


> Then, how come I have 2?
> 
> btw, they're NOT for sale.....


 

 You're wicked dude


----------



## Michgelsen

wink said:


> The HE60 bias is 600v, but should have a 5 megohm resistor placed in the bias line to work on the Stax 580V output.


 

  560V I believe. (The ESP 950 is 600V) Anyway, they do work fine with pro bias.


----------



## David1961

The HE-90 is the best looking headphone I've ever seen, followed by the HE-60 and my 009.

There was talk that Senn might be coming out with stats headphones again, but I haven't heard anything for sometime.
The ugliest headphone I've ever seen is the, well I don't think I need to mention what that headphone THING is.


----------



## Earspeakers

david1961 said:


> The HE-90 is the best looking headphone I've ever seen, followed by the HE-60 and my 009.


 
  
 Who cares what it looks like? All that matter is the music   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


> There was talk that Senn might be coming out with stats headphones again, but I haven't heard anything for sometime.
> The ugliest headphone I've ever seen is the, well I don't think I need to mention what that headphone THING is.


  

 The Sigma? Goofy looking for sure. Or maybe the oddball in my avatar. Anyhow, the Lambdas don't get points either. Wouldn't stop me from wearing either to my workplace though, of course the problem being the open back nature. It's OK to scare the inmates, as long as you don't disturb them. 
  
 I've got a 005 and 002 on order for the workplace, if they're still too loud I'll try making a mini-4070 with some ear muffs.


----------



## Lan647

Not to make this thread a discussion about looks (god forbid) but I kind of like how the Lambdas look. There is a charm to the aesthetics and the plastic construction is quite solid actually, it can take a hit. The sigmas though, basically look and feel like plastic toys. 
  
 The SR-009 may be the most impressive headphone construction I've ever come in contact with though. Gorgeous, precision cut metal assembly with beautiful chamfering and combined with the detail of the electrode within the cup it is just fantastic to behold in my opinion. It's a very graceful industrial design and it just looks like an expensive, statement product. And it feels so great, the heft and solidness of the ear cups along with the fine leather... STAX really nailed this one from an engineering perspective. While the price is high, if there is one headphone that justifies a price like that then it's this one.

 Certainly can't say that about that Abyss crap which looks like it comes straight from Dr Frankenstein's terror chamber or Tony Stark's Afghan cave workstation...


----------



## Earspeakers

lan647 said:


> Not to make this thread a discussion about looks (god forbid) but I kind of like how the Lambdas look. There is a charm to the aesthetics and the plastic construction is quite solid actually, it can take a hit. The sigmas though, basically look and feel like plastic toys.


 
  
 I like the Lambda cold war Soviet Union look too. Sigs are fine, not much different other than the size. 
  
 009 looks great, but would have been nice if the head band was leather covered metal as in the 4070 or 007. More elegant and sturdy, not sure why they took a step backwards into plastic. Theoretically it could have a sonic effect but I doubt it. For that matter I like the 007 look better all around.


----------



## Michgelsen

Jecklin Floats are high on the list of ugliest headphones ever.
  
 Generally, I like the looks of most of the Stax equipment, be it headphones, amp, or other. The rectangular (Japanese) late 80s / early 90s look really does it for me. That's why I also dig the looks of the HEV70, and of the Lambdas.


----------



## David1961

Looks on headphones aside, most of the discussion on this thread is about the 009's and 007's, but I got the SR-003mk2's to mainly use in summer, and I'm using those baby Stax almost as much as my 009's.
Those 003's are being driven by my BHSE, so I don't know how they'd sound driven by a Stax amp, but for what they cost, then IMO they are a bargain.
The only downside I find with the 003's, is after about an hour they start to feel slightly uncomfortable, however when that happens I just switch to my 009's.


----------



## NoPants

Quote:


frankcooter said:


> The output transformers are built by Jack Eliano of Electra-Print. They are a modified version of a high level phase-splitter. Cost was about $450.00 for the pair. As far as I know, they are still available.
> 
> My amplifier uses an 845 DHT for the output, but the first two stages are an indirectly-heated 76 and 6V6. The 76 is CCS loaded with LED bias. The 76 is directly connected to the 6V6 driver, and the 6V6 drives the 845 via an interstage transformer. It's a pretty straight forward design. The only things a little unusual about it is that the 845 employs "fixed" bias (cures a lot of the bass "flabbieness" often associated with DHT amps) and that the  B+, including the HV for the 845, is fully regulated..
> 
> ...


 
  
 Have you looked at the push-pull DHT in morgan jones' book, the Electrostatic Beast? I've been toying with making that for Stax, but it sounds like there'd be too much power on tap.


----------



## Earspeakers

david1961 said:


> Looks on headphones aside, most of the discussion on this thread is about the 009's and 007's, but I got the SR-003mk2's to mainly use in summer, and *I'm using those baby Stax almost as much as my 009's. *Those 003's are being driven by my BHSE, so I don't know how they'd sound driven by a Stax amp, but for what they cost, then IMO they are a bargain.
> The only downside I find with the 003's, is after about an hour they start to feel slightly uncomfortable, however when that happens I just switch to my 009's.


 
  
 Yes, the amazing thing about Stax is how good they all sound, and all similar. Looking at the physics of the driver it makes sense, but it still surprises me. 
  
 Speaking of which, 2014 CES Stax said they were coming out with new products at the lower end, any news on that? Supposed to be out last year.


----------



## FrankCooter

nopants said:


> Have you looked at the push-pull DHT in morgan jones' book, the Electrostatic Beast? I've been toying with making that for Stax, but it sounds like there'd be too much power on tap.


 

 It's been a while, but  I'm familiar with the Morgan Jones designs.  The "Electrostatic Beast", designed as a speaker amp, is overkill for headphones. If I remember right, there is also "Daughter of the "Beast", which is essentially the "Beast" design minus the 845 output stage.
  
 I've toyed with the idea of building  an all DHT push-pull electrostatic amp with balanced inputs.  As far as I can tell, the application of DHT's to electrostatic headphones is a very underexplored design possibility. I think the Gilmore DHT design is based on the very expensive and unique EML tubes. I would use the cheap and plentiful Soviet military types. The 4P1L and 6P21S are DHT's .  Designed in the 1950's for field radio use, they were probably the last DHT's ever built. The advantage of DHT's in a field radio is that unlike an indirectly heated tube, you can key the filaments, thus saving battery life. An unintended benefit of these tubes is that they work very well for audio purposes.
  
 If I was to build a balanced input push-pull amp it would probably look like one of Lynn Olson's designs. Three stage, transformer coupled, and transformer output. Main cost would be in the transformers.
  
  
 To answer your questions about the 845 amp, the interstage transformers are stock Electra-Print units. The 845's are heated with a simple non-regulated supply with an LCLC filter. Using chokes in a filament supply goes a long way towards closing the gap with a regulated supply. A friend of mine is working on a large scale high frequency AC filament supply. I would have liked to have used it here, but there are still some long term dependability issues to be worked out. The other alternative was something like a Tentlabs regulated supply. Regulated filament supplies for big triodes have their own set of issues, so I went for simplicity . Again, chokes are key to performance here.
  
  Here's a photo of the underside of the power supply in its not quite finished state. Even with a 12"x 17" chassis, there's not a lot of extra room for the large heat sinks  required for regulated supplies. Filament chokes (stock Hammonds) are the 2 black units screwed into the chassis sides.
  
  
 :
  
  
 I see you live in California. I live in Santa Barbara and often go to the Bay Area. If you're ever interested in an unusual tube based electrostatic amp project , l'd be happy to help.


----------



## Earspeakers

On the new product releases, I wrote Stax USA and heard back that while there's no official answer, they think Stax Japan might be releasing them towards the end of the year. Big caveat and all that.


----------



## pataburd

Might give the SR-507 another trial with the SRM-323S.
 Did not like the pairing with the Woo WEE.


----------



## Earspeakers

edstrelow said:


> I find all the Stax aggressive until they have been damped with sorbothane ... I have come to believe that there is a lot of audible resonance in headphones, not just Stax. Sorbothane is one of the few materials which actually gets rid of it effectively, by converting it to heat.  The resonance adds a false ambience to the sound plus a harshness. Get rid of it and everything sounds sweeter, more open and more dynamic.


 
  
 If that theory were true then the tone would get warmer/less harsh as the volume went down, due to less energy from the drivers, same effect for quieter music (plastic is quite well damped as it is). Easy to test, just push the volume around and pay attention to the quality of the tone and the "false ambience" you hear. I just did that experiment with the 207, 207, 404LE and Nova - no difference on any. Strings tend to sound the most harsh on any sound system, and with this experiment I'm not detecting it at low or high volumes, but importantly no change as volume changes.
  
 Further, you would expect more harshness with the Stax with more metal - such as the 007 & 009, as metal is obviously highly resonant. Not arguing that you like Sorbothane, but it's a weak case to blame it on resonance.
  
 In general I don't understand the complaint - most of my collection was unlistenable with everything I've tried so far - _except_ planers/Maggies (which have other problems). Horns and certainly the dynamics I've tried do it. Only Stax makes them listenable. 
  
 It could also be theoretically due to ear shape differences, but we have no theory or basis to blame that either unfortunately.


----------



## troymadison

dammit someone sell me a sigma asap


----------



## edstrelow

earspeakers said:


> If that theory were true then the tone would get warmer/less harsh as the volume went down, due to less energy from the drivers, same effect for quieter music (plastic is quite well damped as it is). Easy to test, just push the volume around and pay attention to the quality of the tone and the "false ambience" you hear. I just did that experiment with the 207, 207, 404LE and Nova - no difference on any. Strings tend to sound the most harsh on any sound system, and with this experiment I'm not detecting it at low or high volumes, but importantly no change as volume changes.
> 
> Further, you would expect more harshness with the Stax with more metal - such as the 007 & 009, as metal is obviously highly resonant. Not arguing that you like Sorbothane, but it's a weak case to blame it on resonance.
> 
> ...


 
 I have no particular allegiance to any theory except that I need something to explain the surprising effect of sorbothane damping.  .  Something is happening here.  I certainly had no concept of it until I started playing with sorb. My first assumptions were that adding sorb  would have no effect whatsoever other than adding a bit of mass to the earcups and that the acoustic effects would be minimal.
  
 The term "resonance"  means several different things as applied to headphones and in my thread I have said that I should probably just have used the term "vibration."   The problem is I just go back to using this term.
  
 Every object has a resonant frequency at which it will tend to vibrate.  soren_brix talks about the bell ringing.  I got started on this this problem because I could hear a ringing from the metal arcs of the 007.  As well, each part of the earcup may have a different resonant frequency.
  
 There is also a resonance of the air spaces in headphones, which may not be the same frequencies as the physical earcup.  Metal and plastic earcups both have resonant frequencies although I would bet the metal ones have a more prominent resonant/bell ringing effect and the plastic ones probably dampen vibrations somewhat like sorb does although far less effectively.
  
 While such such ringing/resonance is  a part of the earcup problem, I am  concerned with all the energy, of all frequencies, getting into the earcups.  Basic physics tells us that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. As applied to headphones this means that as much vibration energy is going into the earcups as into the air, in essence a copy of the headphone vibrational signal. Furthermore, since energy cannot be destroyed but can only change its form it's going to stay in the cups until eventually it will dissipate as heat or get channelled to the ground.   With speakers we use things like spikes to do this.  Earpads don't appear to work as effectively.
  
 As  regards your explanation about increased resonance with greater volume I don't think this matters because the vibrational energy is always equal to the sound energy being createed.  I.e. the proportions stay the same.
  
 I am neither  a phsyicist nor mechanical engineer and I think the phenomenon here is fairly complicated. I am not wedded to any theory but Ithink I understand some of the basic phsyics at work. Having not tried damping you would not see the need for such an explanation.


----------



## Earspeakers

edstrelow said:


> I have no particular allegiance to any theory except that I need something to explain the surprising effect of sorbothane damping.  .  Something is happening here.  I certainly had no concept of it until I started playing with sorb. My first assumptions were that adding sorb  would have no effect whatsoever other than adding a bit of mass to the earcups and that the acoustic effects would be minimal.
> 
> I am neither  a phsyicist nor mechanical engineer and I think the phenomenon here is fairly complicated. I am not wedded to any theory but Ithink I understand some of the basic phsyics at work. Having not tried damping you would not see the need for such an explanation.


 

 I'm a physicist by degrees and an engineer by half my working career so can help out on that
  


> As  regards your explanation about increased resonance with greater volume I don't think this matters because the vibrational energy is always equal to the sound energy being createed.  I.e. the proportions stay the same.


 
  
 No, if the drivers are the source of the resonance it will increase if the volume increases 
  


> While such such ringing/resonance is  a part of the earcup problem, I am  concerned with all the energy, of all frequencies, getting into the earcups.  Basic physics tells us that every action has an equal and opposite reaction.


 
  
 Unless it's a non linear system, then tensors will help
  


> As applied to headphones this means that as much vibration energy is going into the earcups as into the air, in essence a copy of the headphone vibrational signal. Furthermore, since energy cannot be destroyed but can only change its form it's going to stay in the cups until eventually it will dissipate as heat or get channelled to the ground.   With speakers we use things like spikes to do this.  Earpads don't appear to work as effectively.


 
  
 Sorry but that doesn't say anything useful for us here, just a statement of some basic ideas but that means nothing unless we know what is happening in these circumstances. 
  


> The term "resonance"  means several different things as applied to headphones and in my thread I have said that I should probably just have used the term "vibration."   The problem is I just go back to using this term.


 
  
 Either one is fine and I understood you. 
  
 Look - again the blaming of resonance isn't getting you anywhere. If we had a measurement (maybe we could do it with a simple MEMS) that would tell us. Or if we had a decent theory, but we have neither. So - sure you like the sound of the Sorb in there - nobody is going to argue with what you hear, but I don't see a rational explanation for it yet. 
  
 EDIT: Just to be clear I'm not trying to pick an argument, but my training can't help but pick apart poor theories


----------



## edstrelow

earspeakers said:


> "Unless it's a non linear system, then tensors will help"
> 
> You are not saying anything here.  This certainly doesn't contradict my point just adds a "well maybe something else is going on."
> 
> ...


----------



## Earspeakers

edstrelow said:


>


 

 Sounds like your affronted - apologies that wasn't my intent. I'll repeat it, *I'm not saying you don't hear something*, but I don't see a good reason a reason to blame resonances. OK? Peace ...


----------



## edstrelow

earspeakers said:


> Sounds like your affronted - apologies that wasn't my intent. I'll repeat it, *I'm not saying you don't hear something*, but I don't see a good reason a reason to blame resonances. OK? Peace ...


 
 No problem, just a scholarly debate going on here.


----------



## arnaud

- Headband vibration is difficult to believe but I guess we can hear very very tiny colorations.
 - Sennheiser actually claimed the visco-elastic treatment on the HD800 was especially aimed toward attenuating those resonances in the headband
 - On a mechanical standpoint, it is correct that any sound in the earcup / vibration of the earcup will somewhat transmit to the gimbal and other mechanical parts and they will vibrate in turn especially at  specific frequencies we refer to as modes.
 - Now this vibration might feedback to the earcup and radiate back into the earcup cavity (structure borne path)
 - One could also imagine a thin metal headband to actually radiating sound as it vibrates, this sound then propagating back to the ear (airborne path)
 - Yes another "flanking" path would be structure borne transmission to the skull
 - I have always assumed that any of these secondary radiation paths in a headphone are negligible since they're orders of magnitude lower than the direct field from the driver itself
 - But then again, people claim different earcup materials sound differently despite having absolutely negligible difference in sound reflection / absorption properties
 - So I guess, however tiny these forms of distortion are, they're nevertheless noticeable?
 - To conclude: yes, applying vibration absorber will effectively drop contributions from headband by anywhere between 3dB and 20dB depending on the engineering behind
 - As for the measurable aspect, I bet it would be challenging. It would be invisible in a frequency response function, possibly visible in a THD plot I guess...


----------



## edstrelow

arnaud said:


> -
> "- Sennheiser actually claimed the visco-elastic treatment on the HD800 was especially aimed toward attenuating those resonances in the headband"
> 
> Interesting about the Sennheiser HD800. The only phones I have heard to have a similar headband problem are the 007A. At least 2 other headfiers who have looked into damping these phones have confirmed this. It was trying to dampen the 007A arcs that got me looking into the more general problem, i.e. what energy is getting to the arcs and how, since they won't ring until they are driven by something. "Visco elastic" could even be sorbothane.
> ...


 
  
 Your discussion of paths, , makes me wonder how the distortion which appears to be damped by sorbothane  is getting back to the ear. Is it because the earcups are vibrating and thus stimulating the eardrum or is it getting back to the drivers and interfering with their operation, or if I follow your argument even based on bone conduction.
  
 I fully understand that persons who haven't heard the phonomenon in person  can't imagine it being especially significant.


----------



## Downrange

Y'know, there really is this think known as "audio truth."  Recently, I 've been reintroduced to it through the platform of the Stax Omega IIs and their flagship tube amp.  This, in contradistinction to a 15K amp and speaker combo here, that just can't quite equal the O2s, fed with balanced input from the old Dell running Asio 4all into the silly little cheap-azz VLink 192.  First, let's dispense with any confusion about the O2s vs. the Lambda (much less the ear-torture line) line - it's no contest.  The O2s are in a class by themselves.  Anyone with a sufficiently resolute front end will discern this with a very few minutes of listening.  
 Lately, I've taken to employing a mix of 96/24 DLs and just old-fashioned rips of CD(to Wav. of course) to try to parse the gauge of what's happening.  Here's the thing:  you have to develop your own objective standard to then place all the media on a scale.  That's what I'm in the process of doing.  First, set the objective measuring apparati, including the the SZ1 O2s and the fantastic SRM-007Tii U.S. spec amp I use.  Now, all you folks with BHSE's feel free to use your set-ups, of course, but I'm reporting what I hear here.  The Lambdas are for "entertainment purposes only."  Not even in the same ballpark. So.... first order of business is to acquire a decent amp (hint: the SRM-007Tii is the cheapest suitable amp) and then set forth your own listening reports.
 I'm reporting tonight on the amazing material of Lisa Gerrard and Dead Can Dance.  For some amazing head=FI experiences give a listen to Anastasis and Spiritchase.  Throw in some spice in the form of East of the Full Moon, or any of the Diana Krall 24/96 material from HD tracks, and get back to me on what audio Should sound like.  Not necessarily through expending 10K on a headphone system, either.


----------



## edstrelow

Again re: Sennheiser HD800 this is from their webpage: "Metal headband with inner-damping element"
  
 http://en-us.sennheiser.com/dynamic-headphones-high-end-around-ear-hd-800
  
 This phone, like the Stax SR007 uses a metal band across the top, (or Stax used 2 metal bands.) Sennheiser seems to have recognized the problem this causes and used their own damping system. Stax only used a leather cover.
  
 This you tube video shows the headband in more detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlA84jbTkxk
  
 I have felt for 2 years now that the Stax 007 band caused problems. http://www.head-fi.org/t/671314/stax-sr007-resonance-problems


----------



## xantus

downrange said:


> Y'know, there really is this think known as "audio truth."  Recently, I 've been reintroduced to it through the platform of the Stax Omega IIs and their flagship tube amp.  This, in contradistinction to a 15K amp and speaker combo here, that just can't quite equal the O2s, fed with balanced input from the old Dell running Asio 4all into the silly little cheap-azz VLink 192.  First, let's dispense with any confusion about the O2s vs. the Lambda (much less the ear-torture line) line - it's no contest.  The O2s are in a class by themselves.  Anyone with a sufficiently resolute front end will discern this with a very few minutes of listening.
> Lately, I've taken to employing a mix of 96/24 DLs and just old-fashioned rips of CD(to Wav. of course) to try to parse the gauge of what's happening.  Here's the thing:  you have to develop your own objective standard to then place all the media on a scale.  That's what I'm in the process of doing.  First, set the objective measuring apparati, including the the SZ1 O2s and the fantastic SRM-007Tii U.S. spec amp I use.  Now, all you folks with BHSE's feel free to use your set-ups, of course, but I'm reporting what I hear here.  The Lambdas are for "entertainment purposes only."  Not even in the same ballpark. So.... first order of business is to acquire a decent amp (hint: the SRM-007Tii is the cheapest suitable amp) and then set forth your own listening reports.
> I'm reporting tonight on the amazing material of Lisa Gerrard and Dead Can Dance.  For some amazing head=FI experiences give a listen to Anastasis and Spiritchase.  Throw in some spice in the form of East of the Full Moon, or any of the Diana Krall 24/96 material from HD tracks, and get back to me on what audio Should sound like.  Not necessarily through expending 10K on a headphone system, either.




try spiritchaser on mfsl vinyl. I didn't believe in audio truth until I spent years aligning my needle with Stax..


----------



## karlgerman

edstrelow said:


> Again re: Sennheiser HD800 this is from their webpage: "Metal headband with inner-damping element"
> 
> http://en-us.sennheiser.com/dynamic-headphones-high-end-around-ear-hd-800
> 
> ...


 
 Maybe "David 1961" could tell us something about headband influences. He has a real nice modding of his 009. Look for some of his oder post´s where he explained the whole process of doing this.


----------



## kugino

have an sr007 mk.2 coming in. debating between a 717 at a really good price vs. kgsshv at almost 3x the cost. it's my first stax setup. will the 717 keep me happy until I'm ready to upgrade in the future? or will I be disappointed with the 717?


----------



## Moonhead

Get one KGSSHV, thats a safe bet. 

Birgir has a clone between the mini and the original for 2500$
Standard version for 3300$ 

http://mjolnir-audio.com/?page_id=14


----------



## wink

GET THE KGSSHV   (Yes, I AM shouting.)


----------



## David1961

karlgerman said:


> edstrelow said:
> 
> 
> > Again re: Sennheiser HD800 this is from their webpage: "Metal headband with inner-damping element"
> ...





I find there to be no difference, or at least very little in the SQ between using the Stax 009 headband, and the one I did for my 009's. ( which can be seen in my Avatar ) 
I also find my 009's with that headband are just as comfortable if not more so than the Stax one.
However the main reason I did it was because I can't do with the look of the Stax 009's with the original headband, but I very much like the look of my 009's with the one I did.

Rather than take my word on me finding to be no difference or very little in SQ between the two headbands, why not ask head-fiers " astrostar59 " and " Bonesy Jonesy " to whom have both heard my 009's with that headband.

( That's only to those that are interested ) 

P.S. That headband wasn't cheap, altogether it cost me around £130, and I did everything myself apart from the brackets being made, they were done by a local metal engineer.


----------



## Earspeakers

david1961 said:


> *I find there to be no difference*, or at least very little in the SQ between using the Stax 009 headband, and the one I did for my 009's. ( which can be seen in my Avatar )


 
  
 That says a lot, as you went with extensive modifications. Indeed it's easy to test any affects of the headband on your Stax. Since they're not contacting the head, just take your hands and grip them! That should provide better damping than many other things you can do. 
  
 I've done this on the Lambda line, Omega line and 4070, verdict? No difference. Interestingly however you can feel vibrations from the music, at least in the lower frequencies. Listening to Corelli at the moment, when the cello rips out a nice low line you can feel the headband vibrate in response. Interestingly, the cello's are off to the _right_, yet I feel the low frequency vibrations off to the _left_. No reason to doubt it, vibration patterns are complex and you really have to measure them. 
  
 The vibrations can be felt in the ear cup grill too but to a much lesser degree. Which makes some sense, that grill is complex and should damp vibrations quite well. 
  
 The talk about vibrations and damping is interesting. It's not necessarily that you want to damp them out. The 4070 appears to be highly damped and it's the most 'dead' sounding of the Stax. Any good acoustician knows that you don't want a completely damped hall.


----------



## David1961

I did a similar headband with the LCD-XC's I had, but I sold them to a head-fier after I started using the PH tubes with my BHSE, I did this because I was hardly listening to the LCD's which were driven by the GS-Xmk2 which I also sold.
When I was using the stock Mullard's though I was listening to the LCD-XC / GS-X as much as the 009 / BHSE.

Feel wise, the difference between the headband on the 009's, and the LCD-XC, is with the 009's there's not a lot of pressure around my ears from the ear pads, but with the LCD's there was more pressure from the ear pads, but I meant that to happen on both.

As I've mentioned, I did the headband for my 009's because of looks, but with the LCD-XC I did it because of comfort.


----------



## edstrelow

arnaud said:


> -
> - To conclude: yes, applying vibration absorber will effectively drop contributions from headband by anywhere between 3dB and 20dB depending on the engineering behind
> -


 
  
 Also the amount and type of sorbothane (or other material) used?  Sorb comes in different shapes, thicknesses and softness (which they call "duro.")   I have used sheets of sorb in my phones ranging from 1mm thick for the SR003 to 1/4 inch thick for the SR007.  I assumed that the more you use the more damping there would be.  However, in practice I find the results somewhat unpredictable and one of the ads I have seen for sorb notes that "more is not always better"  and that several small sections are better than large sheets.  For me it has largely come down to trial and error.  If the sound gets worse, cut down on the amount, if it sounds good add more and see if it sounds better.


----------



## graben

earspeakers said:


> Yes, the amazing thing about Stax is how good they all sound, and all similar. Looking at the physics of the driver it makes sense, but it still surprises me.
> 
> Speaking of which, 2014 CES Stax said they were coming out with new products at the lower end, any news on that? Supposed to be out last year.




  
 Wow new products from Stax. I can't wait to try them out. Too bad I am leaving the land of Stax.


----------



## troymadison

Just pulled the trigger on a SR-507. Just as I thought I was getting rid of my headphones, I get a SRM-1/MK2 out of total impulse.


----------



## kugino

have an sr007 stuck in customs here...hope it gets delivered in the next few days. looking to add an sr-407 as a change of pace headphone...still debating which dynamic/ortho headphone is should hold on to...


----------



## astrostar59

kugino said:


> have an sr007 stuck in customs here...hope it gets delivered in the next few days. looking to add an sr-407 as a change of pace headphone...still debating which dynamic/ortho headphone is should hold on to...


 

 You decide on the 717 or the KGSShv. In my view the 717 is very good with the 007 as I had that setup. Yes,the KGSShv is bigger, more of everything including bass power and dynamics, and slightly warmer. But if money is tight, get the 717 and save for later. You won't be disapointed.
  
 Unless you near a portable set-up, and your orthos are top drawer I would sell all that, and go BIG on Stax IMO.


----------



## kugino

astrostar59 said:


> You decide on the 717 or the KGSShv. In my view the 717 is very good with the 007 as I had that setup. Yes,the KGSShv is bigger, more of everything including bass power and dynamics, and slightly warmer. But if money is tight, get the 717 and save for later. You won't be disapointed.
> 
> Unless you near a portable set-up, and your orthos are top drawer I would sell all that, and go BIG on Stax IMO.


I've not settled on the 717 or kgsshv dilemma yet. if I want to keep a dynamic/ortho setup, it'll have to be the 717. but if I do decide to go "all in" on a stax setup, I can get a good kgsshv. I'm seriously thinking about getting rid of my dynamic/ortho gear. I've been looking at the new ortho offerings from mr speakers so could get that and keep my taurus. but waiting to hear a few more impressions first.


----------



## David1961

Maybe you should have a look on Birgir's website, he's selling one stats amp in his used gear section for $750+ shipping.


----------



## kugino

david1961 said:


> Maybe you should have a look on Birgir's website, he's selling one stats amp in his used gear section for $750+ shipping.


 
 yeah, it's an exstata...i think i'd prefer the 717 over it based on things i've read. unless someone can convince me otherwise.


----------



## David1961

kugino said:


> yeah, it's an exstata...i think i'd prefer the 717 over it based on things i've read. unless someone can convince me otherwise.




I believe it's Birgir's take on the exstata, but whether it drives like one then I'm sure Birgir would let know.
I haven't heard an exstata, but I have a 717, and both the 007's and 009's didn't sound that bad driven by that Stax amp, but IMO not to the same level as the BHSE or the KGSSHV.


----------



## Ikarios

For those with SRM-313 or similar amps, how is the outer (smaller length) volume knob attached? The SRM-313 I recently sold did not seem to have any connection between the outer and inner volume knobs, and if tilted even slightly it would pretty much fall out. Is this normal? Is it secured some way? The volume adjustment functionality worked just fine, it's just that it had a tendency to fall out.


----------



## brokenthumb

First impression listening to Stax... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Why have I been wasting all this time and money on dynamics and orthos.  Two songs in and I'm already wanting a 007 or 009.  I went with the SR-507 and SRM-323S.


----------



## Tachikoma

Hmmm, nevermind, more research to do.


----------



## Earspeakers

brokenthumb said:


> First impression listening to Stax...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds like a familiar story. 
  


> Two songs in and I'm already wanting a 007 or 009.  I went with the SR-507 and SRM-323S.


 
  
 That's a great set up - live with it and enjoy. You can take your time, I have both those other ear speakers, plus a dozen others. You're in the big league, going for the summit won't get you that much further and will cost a fortune. Not discouraging you to do it eventually but spend a honeymoon with the 507.


----------



## kugino

i'm leaning toward a 717 for my sr007A...while i know it won't be as amazing as a kgsshv, i want to also upgrade my source. @spritzer has a modified exstata on his site that i'm also interested in, but waiting to hear about how it compares with the 717 powering the sr007A before making a final decision...


----------



## n3rdling

The 717 is a very solid amp.


----------



## Don Quichotte

ikarios said:


> For those with SRM-313 or similar amps, how is the outer (smaller length) volume knob attached? The SRM-313 I recently sold did not seem to have any connection between the outer and inner volume knobs, and if tilted even slightly it would pretty much fall out. Is this normal? Is it secured some way? The volume adjustment functionality worked just fine, it's just that it had a tendency to fall out.


 

 I cannot tell how is it attached, but mine doesn't leave its place at all (I have a rather old SRM-313 with one normal bias and one pro bias output)..


----------



## Michgelsen

@kugino Don't worry, the 717 works well with the 007. It's a good amp. I haven't heard an Exstata, but for me it would be very simple to choose between the two: the 717 has got a lot more recommendations than the Exstata, which has received quite some criticism over the years, although surprisingly, most people raved about it in the very beginning. Still, the 717 has always been a dead cert.


----------



## kugino

n3rdling said:


> The 717 is a very solid amp.


 
  
  


michgelsen said:


> @kugino Don't worry, the 717 works well with the 007. It's a good amp. I haven't heard an Exstata, but for me it would be very simple to choose between the two: the 717 has got a lot more recommendations than the Exstata, which has received quite some criticism over the years, although surprisingly, most people raved about it in the very beginning. Still, the 717 has always been a dead cert.


 

 that's the impression i've been getting about the 717. and someone at the other place also made the comment that the 717 would be much easier to re-sell later on if/when i want to try something else. so i'm most likely going to pick up the 717. my other choice would have been to get the kgsshv, but i think i want to spend money to upgrade my source as well, so i don't want to spend all of it on the amp.


----------



## rx79ez08

ikarios said:


> For those with SRM-313 or similar amps, how is the outer (smaller length) volume knob attached? The SRM-313 I recently sold did not seem to have any connection between the outer and inner volume knobs, and if tilted even slightly it would pretty much fall out. Is this normal? Is it secured some way? The volume adjustment functionality worked just fine, it's just that it had a tendency to fall out.


 

 I have similar problem with the 323. The nose of the volume knob seem to be only connected to the body of the volume knob via friction of the gear. Tipping the amp forward almost always cause the nose to fall out.
  
 The 717, SRM-1MK2 and T1 that I have don't have that problem though.


----------



## pataburd

Can the KingSound M-20 amplifier drive the Stax SR-407/507?


----------



## kevin gilmore

pataburd said:


> Can the KingSound M-20 amplifier drive the Stax SR-407/507?


 

 yes, but there are no safety resistors in that amp, so if you play it too loud
 and it clips hard it might damage the headphones.


----------



## pataburd

Thank you, Kevin!


----------



## Ikarios

rx79ez08 said:


> I have similar problem with the 323. The nose of the volume knob seem to be only connected to the body of the volume knob via friction of the gear. Tipping the amp forward almost always cause the nose to fall out.
> 
> The 717, SRM-1MK2 and T1 that I have don't have that problem though.


 
  
 Interesting. Do you know how old each of your amps are? I'm curious as to whether or not this is a new development, because I've had two people with older SRM313s say they haven't had the problem. Is your 323 a newer model?


----------



## astrostar59

Is it possible to glue the thing on? A bit of Epoxy mix glue should work.


----------



## astrostar59

CRAZY IDEA?
  
 I live in Spain and get an invasion of ants for the hot months. Normally they just hit the Kitchen and not much else, but being a bit paranoid, I have spotted the odd one in my Studio where I have my system.
  
 Hmm, got me thinking after watching Game of Thrones. Lets have some serious Castle fortifications going. Well, a moat in miniature actually. I will get a Stainless Steel circular tray, and a slightly smaller one to sit in it. Then fill the inner area with water, and set my headphone stand on the middle tray. Check the water every other day or so, and bingo, Ants Free Zone!! Ha Ha.
  
 I thought of electrifying the headphone stand, but I might forget and kill myself instead... 
  
 It's alright having £3,500 headphones, but they need protecting!


----------



## Downrange

The SRM-717 is a very solid (state) amp.  There. FIFY.  Get the SRM-007Ti.  Tubes rule.


----------



## Earspeakers

astrostar59 said:


> CRAZY IDEA?
> 
> I live in Spain and get an invasion of ants for the hot months. Normally they just hit the Kitchen and not much else, but being a bit paranoid, I have spotted the odd one in my Studio where I have my system.


 
  
 Be careful, there's a guy here "antsinmystax" or some such who did get an ant takeover of his 009's. Do a search.


----------



## kugino

astrostar59 said:


> CRAZY IDEA?
> 
> I live in Spain and get an invasion of ants for the hot months. Normally they just hit the Kitchen and not much else, but being a bit paranoid, I have spotted the odd one in my Studio where I have my system.
> 
> ...


 

 you forgot about capillary action. most ants are light enough that they can "walk" on water...your moat might not deter them!


----------



## bearFNF

kugino said:


> you forgot about capillary action. most ants are light enough that they can "walk" on water...your moat might not deter them!



You're going to need alligators in your moat.


----------



## b0bb

astrostar59 said:


> CRAZY IDEA?
> 
> I live in Spain and get an invasion of ants for the hot months. Normally they just hit the Kitchen and not much else, but being a bit paranoid, I have spotted the odd one in my Studio where I have my system.
> 
> ...


 
 Liquid ant baits made with borax and sugar are extremely effective, it takes about 2 weeks, let the ants invade and feed on the baits, cordon off the rest of the kitchen with insect spray, keep kids and pets at bay and wait.
  
 3 bait cannisters will take down a small colony permanently. If that happens the invasion the following year will be much less or not at all.
  
 The example below is from Terro, see if you can find something locally


----------



## chinsettawong

What about just simply put your headphones in a zip lock bag?


----------



## Jones Bob

Or buy a housebroken anteater.


----------



## wink

Candied ants...
  
 http://www.candywarehouse.com/occasions/extreme-gross-and-funny-candy/products/chocolate-covered-ants-candy-24-piece-box/
  
 You might as well enjoy exterminating them.......


----------



## rx79ez08

chinsettawong said:


> What about just simply put your headphones in a zip lock bag?


 

 I like your thinking.
  
 Lavender oil might also work, might be better than chemical alternatives.


----------



## Tachikoma

@anyone who has drivers "falling off the baffle" on older lambdas, try re-sealing them against the baffle with Teflon tape. I just did that for my Nova Sigs, and boy did the deep bass improve.


----------



## Scottsmrnyc

I have opened up the inards of a pair of failed Sigmas. My biggest problem is that the connection between the cables and earspeaker(s) become unstable and begin to cut out the sound. I currently have a pair of Sigmas that are in this condition and in the past I have gone through at least two pair of Sigmas with this exact problem. I have cleaned the dirt or dust out of the some Sigmas with air in a can and I have changed the foam padding within them. I have even replaced one Sigma ear speaker with another by splicing both earspeaker wires together- this did not work at all. I would be curious to know what type of tape you used to improve your bass response? Additionally, I wonder where you placed the tape within the earspeaker?


----------



## rx79ez08

ikarios said:


> Interesting. Do you know how old each of your amps are? I'm curious as to whether or not this is a new development, because I've had two people with older SRM313s say they haven't had the problem. Is your 323 a newer model?


 

 The 323 was probably purchased at about 2012.


----------



## Tachikoma

scottsmrnyc said:


> I have opened up the inards of a pair of failed Sigmas. My biggest problem is that the connection between the cables and earspeaker(s) become unstable and begin to cut out the sound. I currently have a pair of Sigmas that are in this condition and in the past I have gone through at least two pair of Sigmas with this exact problem. I have cleaned the dirt or dust out of the some Sigmas with air in a can and I have changed the foam padding within them. I have even replaced one Sigma ear speaker with another by splicing both earspeaker wires together- this did not work at all. I would be curious to know what type of tape you used to improve your bass response? Additionally, I wonder where you placed the tape within the earspeaker?


 
 The Nova Signature at least, has this raised bit in the baffle where the driver is mounted. I just wrapped some teflon tape around it. Its sometimes known as plumber's tape http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_seal_tape
  
 I'm not sure what you mean by splicing the earspeaker wires together, maybe you should just buy a new set of cables? The Stax Lambda cables should work just fine with the Sigma chassis: http://www.electromod.co.uk/stax-spares.asp?C=1
  
 Edstrelow's thread on sorbothane damping has a few good pictures: http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/lightbox/post/11330590/id/1304702 The tape wraps around the part highlighted in green.


----------



## Earspeakers

Got a pair of 007mk1's - the early carbon box. Holy grail of Stax? Considered so by many, but I'd say it depends on your perspective. I'd rate the 009's as more comfortable for one thing. They easily and incredibly comfortably go on my head, I've never tried a headphone this comfortable. The 007 depends on a stretchy headband to make it work so I have to pull them down to fit right. Oddly where the 4070 is much too big for most heads, this is too small. It doesn't want to quite sit well on my American (larger than a Japanese) head. 
  
 The sound? Different. There's a sliding scale with Stax designs which goes between distinct/nearness and indistinct/distant, for lack of a better term I'll call them "near/far". A "near" Stax is probably what accounts for the (mythological in my view) 'Stax edge'. Near sounding Stax make it sound like you're up close with a group. Front row seats, the sound doesn't get modulated by intervening distance. This is a real phenomenon too, spend time in a hall like I have as both the performer, in the front row, and in the back. In a good hall, the _detail_ of the sound will be mostly the same, but the sound is more distinct up close. With recorded music this can be interpreted as "edgy", but remember that recorded music is coming from a close miked situation, especially for Rock. Dynamic drivers, by their poor reproductive nature, fuzz out the sound and thus cover up more of the sins. A close up Stax design puts your _right at_ the microphone. A far Stax design will place you in the middle or towards the back of a hall. With Rock that's a good thing as they mike those instruments far too closely. They do that so they can isolate them and then mix to their taste. 
  
 At any rate the latest 009 is a _near_ Stax design, and the early 007mk1 is a _far_ design. The detail is approximately the same (the 009 does have more detail but not too much more), but the 007mk1 is more relaxed in a way because it puts you farther from the musicians. Which is better? Objectively I'd have to say the 009. The stated intention of Stax design is accurate reproduction (see the Stax factory tour posts) and the 009 is head and shoulders above the 007 in that regards. But maybe that's not what you want, maybe you don't really want to hear exactly what the original microphone heard. In that case you might prefer the 007. At any rate, I think the 007 ambiance can probably be reproduced in other parts of the chain. I'd like to try a 009 with a transformer coupled amp and see if it gives a 007mk1 like performance. 
  
 If I had to pick one I'd go for the 009 easy, I don't subscribe to the idea that the 007 is the best. But I like sitting in different seats in a hall, so I love having a 007mk1 too. I listen to music all day while I work and need change.


----------



## pataburd

How much headtime with the 007 so far?
 It sounds like you came into the "review" with a bias pro-009.


----------



## wink

You need to listen to any headphone for at least 10 minutes to get it's tonality.


----------



## Earspeakers

pataburd said:


> How much headtime with the 007 so far?


 
  
 A couple of days. Initial impressions of course, I'll update after a year of owning it. I don't listen at a showroom or a meetups - I don't see how you can evaluate under those circumstances. I just buy what I'm interested in, spend time with it in my house in my system - the only way to tell. At that I can usually form an accurate impression after an hour or two, which is the time it takes to run through a set of standard test pieces I have
  
  


> It sounds like you came into the "review" with a bias pro-009.


 

 And it sounds like your "unhappy" I didn't favor the 007. See? Impressions can be faulty. 
  
 In this case I own some 12 Stax headphones (all different models, 404, 404LE, 4070, Sig, 007mk2, 007mk1, 009, 003, 5 Gold, etc etc) and listen to them all on a weekly basis. Calling me biased is laughable. In this case as I said I like the mk1 for many reasons, but objectively I'm rating the 009 higher.


----------



## astrostar59

earspeakers said:


> In this case as I said I like the mk1 for many reasons, but objectively I'm rating the 009 higher.


 
 I concur. I really like the 007s and on classical and rock they were great, really great. But the 009 spoils me. It has the bass, better detailed bass AND gives more ambiance and treble detail. However, this comes at a cost. It is not IMO the 009s at fault, it is the source used.
  
 I was unsure while I was using the 009s with my Metrum Octave II and the SRM-717 amp, but when I got back home 2 months later, and hooked up my Audio Note DAC and the KGSShv, WOW amazingly better.
  
 So IMO the 007 is great, but put the 009 on a smooth front end and drive it with a decent amp and it leave the rest behind. I would say the 007 is more forgiving and will work very well in a mid cost front end setup or dare I say it a Delta-Sigma DAC along the lines of many I have auditioned over the last few year. A brightish and 'hi-fi' sounding DAC paired with the 009s = fatigue and sterile sound IMO.
  
 My DAC History: I owned a (superb) Sharp 18 bit DAC back in 1990 which cost 5K second hand and it was very good, and a Pioneer PD91 modded. After that it all went downhill for me: Meridian, Chord, Musical Fidelity, Pink Triangle, Naim, Marantz and some modded DACs.
  
 More recently I head David's Esoteric K-01 with the BHSE and 009s and my own KGSShv and it was very good, probably on par with my Audio Note DAC 4.1 but with a different flavour, possibly colder? I am not sure as I haven't heard them together.
 Anyway, for anyone looking for a very detailed and smooth DAC that sounds realistic I would look at the Non oversampling DACs. They just seems to work for me.
  
 Sorry off topic there, but related, as we talk a lot here about the phone here naturally, it is the Stax thread, but whith Stax phones being so detailed and 'close' to the music, the source becomes very important IMO.


----------



## preproman

earspeakers said:


> A couple of days. Initial impressions of course, I'll update after a year of owning it. I don't listen at a showroom or a meetups - I don't see how you can evaluate under those circumstances. I just buy what I'm interested in, spend time with it in my house in my system - the only way to tell. At that I can usually form an accurate impression after an hour or two, which is the time it takes to run through a set of standard test pieces I have
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I have no skin in this game.  However, how can this be an objective rating?  Where is the data to support an objective rank.  Maybe it's best to say you're subjectively rating the 009 higher.  
  
 btw - I happen to like the 009s better as well.


----------



## troymadison

I'd imagine I'd like the 009 better than the 007


----------



## wink

Any brighter headphone can sound more impressive initially.
  
 The test is to listen to one for a few days exclusively, then the other.
  
 That's the only way to get a proper perspective of each can.


----------



## Earspeakers

preproman said:


> I have no skin in this game.  However, how can this be an objective rating?  Where is the data to support an objective rank.  Maybe it's best to say you're subjectively rating the 009 higher.


 

 I have no skin in it either, other than I own them all. Additionally I'll note that I paid a lot for my rare mk1's, and so am doing myself no favors for resell value (I'm not planning on selling them).
  
 On objective - whatever. I keep a list of notes on each, comfort, clarity, accuracy, etc for my objective rating. Further, I have recordings of orchestras I've played with (San Francisco Sym Orch), in halls I spent years playing in (Davies Sym hall), recorded when I was doing this (Nielson 5th). I personally know the hall, I know the group, I know the music, and heard both from on stage and in audience, and have recordings. Finally I have world class musical training which teaches you to listen objectively. So yeah, I call it objective, and people can take that for whatever they want.


----------



## Earspeakers

wink said:


> Any brighter headphone can sound more impressive initially.
> 
> The test is to listen to one for a few days exclusively, then the other.
> 
> That's the only way to get a proper perspective of each can.


 
  
 Yeah, I know. You might find it interesting that orchestra tuning has steadily increased by a cent or two over the last 300 years. Why? It gives a slightly brighter sound that people like better. 
  
 SFO tunes to 442.


----------



## wink

Quote:Earspeakers 





> I have no skin in it either,


 
 If you own the headphones, you have some skin in this game.
  
 In fact, you have more than I do.   Congratulations...


----------



## wink

Quote:Earspeakers 





> Don't try to teach your grandpa........


 
 To be my grandpa, you'd be older than the oldest living person on this mortal coil.
  
 Interesting info on orchestra tuning.
  
 A good read.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_pitch


----------



## preproman

earspeakers said:


> I have no skin in it either, other than I own them all. Additionally I'll note that I paid a lot for my rare mk1's, and so am doing myself no favors for resell value (I'm not planning on selling them).
> 
> On objective - whatever. I keep a list of notes on each, comfort, clarity, accuracy, etc for my objective rating. Further, I have recordings of orchestras I've played with (San Francisco Sym Orch), in halls I spent years playing in (Davies Sym hall), recorded when I was doing this (Nielson 5th). I personally know the hall, I know the group, I know the music, and heard both from on stage and in audience, and have recordings. Finally I have world class musical training which teaches you to listen objectively. So yeah, I call it objective, and people can take that for whatever they want.


 

 Whatever?  Well - Whatever then.  WTH??  I can take notes and listen to the same things you do - What does that mean? Other than we can come up with different opinions (subjective).  Like I said - where is your objective data? If you have none it's purely a subjective opinion "NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT"  
  
 Dude - you should check your little attitude at the door.


----------



## Earspeakers

wink said:


> To be my grandpa, you'd be older than the oldest living person on this mortal coil.


 
  
 Apologies, I edited that out. See below ...
  


preproman said:


> Dude - you should check your little attitude at the door.


 
  
 Well I'm feeling a little attacked here. I write down my review - not intending it to be exhaustive but just what I'm hearing on getting a pair of headphones, just for interest sake and people are jumping all over it. I get a little heated, and that gets some criticism too. 
  
 I have every major Stax headphone and was planning a meta-review to help people who like such things, but now I'm not sure if I should. I would think it's obvious that there's a context for everything, but if people take up arms because they don't like what you say, well I'm not paid to do this. 
  
 Peace otherwise -


----------



## wink

Quote:Earspeakers 





> was planning a meta-review to help people who like such things, but now I'm not sure if I should


 
 Go ahead, do it.
  
 Your opinion is just as valid as anyone elses'
  
 It helps when you set it out in a cohesive manner though.
  
 Check out some of the other comparison threads for some pointers.
  
 The classic is this one:-
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13#post_8827188
  
 I look forward to your effort.
  
  
 btw, when are you gonna spring for an Omega..?


----------



## astrostar59

> I have no skin in this game.  However, how can this be an objective rating?  Where is the data to support an objective rank.  Maybe it's best to say you're subjectively rating the 009 higher.


 
 Ehh? There are graph readouts showing the 007s non linear response v the 009 very flat (almost perfect). Inner Fidelity published them way back...


----------



## preproman

earspeakers said:


> Apologies, I edited that out. See below ...
> 
> 
> Well I'm feeling a little attacked here. I write down my review - not intending it to be exhaustive but just what I'm hearing on getting a pair of headphones, just for interest sake and people are jumping all over it. I get a little heated, and that gets some criticism too.
> ...


 
  
 Man I just pointed out one thing.  Objective vs. Subjective and you freaked out.  I just made a suggestion.  People here like myself like to hear others opinions on different things.  But when you state things as fact i.e.. objective with no data i.e... measurements and such just seems like you think - whatever you say goes.
  
  
Objective : Scientific facts are objective as are mathematical proofs; essentially anything that can be backed up with solid data. 
  
Subjective : Personal opinions, interpretations, and any type of marketing presentation are all subjective.
 
Do the review.  I would love to read it..


----------



## preproman

astrostar59 said:


> Ehh? There are graph readouts showing the 007s non linear response v the 009 very flat (almost perfect). Inner Fidelity published them way back...


 

 Bingo. That's my point..  It was just all in a different context..


----------



## astrostar59

preproman said:


> Bingo. That's my point..  It was just all in a different context..


 

 Yes, and anyway, I don't need paper printouts or measurements to KNOW the 007s have a bass hump and a mid treble drop.
 I think (my view not fact) that Stax designed that in, to give the 007s a healthy bass response and warmer sound / less bright for mid range (mass market) systems. It sounds 'better' in a demo room with affordable gear. I say 'better' not accurate or better IMO. 
  
 Most DACs post 2000 have gone all hi-fi and detail mad IMO.


----------



## preproman

astrostar59 said:


> Yes, and anyway, I don't need paper printouts or measurements to KNOW the 007s have a bass hump and a mid treble drop.
> I think (my view not fact) that Stax designed that in, to give the 007s a healthy bass response and warmer sound / less bright for mid range (mass market) systems. It sounds 'better' in a demo room with affordable gear. I say 'better' not accurate or better IMO.
> 
> Most DACs post 2000 have gone all hi-fi and detail mad IMO.


 

 Very well put.


----------



## Earspeakers

preproman said:


> Man I just pointed out one thing.  Objective vs. Subjective and you freaked out.  I just made a suggestion.


 
  
 Hardly freaked out, slightly annoyed is more like it   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And mostly to the other posts that had already come up, don't sweat it. Internet posts magnify things. 
  


> Ehh? There are graph readouts showing the 007s non linear response v the 009 very flat (almost perfect). Inner Fidelity published them way back..


 
 Despite being a measurement scientist for 20 years (after leaving a professional music career) I'm cautious about graphs and the ears. Is a few dB noticeable? Do I care? The standard is 3 dB down for filters and rolloff. Besides, even though I design spectrum analyzers for a living, my ears aren't a spectrum analyzer. 
  
 I'll be careful here ... JUST MY OPINION.


----------



## bearFNF

No where in either of these definitions is there a requirement for presenting data. They only reference how the person considers and presents the thing being discussed or looked at.

*objective* - (of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

"historians try to be objective and impartial"

synonyms:impartial, unbiased, unprejudiced,nonpartisan, disinterested, neutral,uninvolved, even-handed, equitable,fair, fair-minded, just, open-minded,dispassionate, detached, neutral

"I was hoping to get an objective and pragmatic report"

*subjective*.-existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought (opposed to objective ). pertaining to or characteristic of an individual; personal; individual: a subjective evaluation.


----------



## troymadison

What I like about the SR-507 compared to the SR-407 and SR-303 I had before, there seems to be less stax fart on the SR-507. I barely moved my jaw and the SR-407 would rip ass, but not with the SR-507. I really like the combo with the SRM-1 MK2. I am wondering if it would be worth recapping the amp. I am getting a normal bias lambda just to see how the original lambda compares to the newest. What strikes me the most after listening for a short while is that the imaging is real impressive compared to my dynamic collection. I am getting real curious about the SR-009.


----------



## edstrelow

astrostar59 said:


> Ehh? There are graph readouts showing the 007s non linear response v the 009 very flat (almost perfect). Inner Fidelity published them way back...


 
 These measurements are very useful for comparisons but as to whether or not they represent your hearing, that is another matter. If you read the details of the procedures there are two corrections for frequency, one to correct for the effect of the head and ear on frequency, and another to make the sound comparable to room listening. The correction for the former may not match your hearing and the latter is questionable.
  
 As I say, the measurements provide a basis for camparisons, because they are done consistently across different phones. However they may be misleading as to whether a phone shows the right amount of bass or treble. Certainly you are going to have to listen and decide if any phone works for you.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> No where in either of these definitions is there a requirement for presenting data. They only reference how the person considers and presents the thing being discussed or looked at.
> 
> *objective* - (of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
> 
> ...


 

 This has been over and done with.  No need to start a new discussion about it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I can pull other definitions that has the words "supporting data" in it.  that's not hard at all.


----------



## Earspeakers

preproman said:


> This has been over and done with.  No need to start a new discussion about it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes thanks. I didn't take up the argument about the words, seemed little point. 
  
 By objective I simply meant without my personal preferences. I like both cans, prefer one, taking out that preference feel that the capabilities of one exceed the other. No need to get anal on definitions, the sense should be clear and if you disagree then fine.


----------



## Earspeakers

edstrelow said:


> These measurements are very useful for comparisons but as to whether or not they represent your hearing, that is another matter.


 
  
 Sure, that's what I said (or meant at least). Certainly I didn't imply that measurements are useless.


----------



## kugino

sr007A arrived yesterday...717 coming in next week. yay!


----------



## edstrelow

kugino said:


> sr007A arrived yesterday...717 coming in next week. yay!


 
 A good combo. This was one of the set-ups I used at Canjam last week to demonstrate the effects of damping phones by sorbothane.


----------



## Earspeakers

How about some Lambda Love on the thread? I've been listening to a 207 Basic, 307 Signature, 404 Sig, 404LE Sig and Lambda Nova Signature. I've got a Lambda Signature coming in too - reputably the thinnest diagram in the lineup (1 um), and the source of the supposed "Stax Etch". Am very curious to hear. 
  
 The 207 is quite thick and punchy. They're also accident prone. I got this pair by accident from PJ, and instead of sending them back he gave me a deal on them to keep, so I use them for test headphones with my new amps. They also had the only 'snap crackle pop' I've heard with Stax. Shortly after I got them, I'd take my eyeglasses off while listening and got crackling from it. Yikes! It wasn't moving around that much and I didn't poke anything. I think they don't get a lot of QA at the factory. But you get a helluva lot of Stax love even with these guys, I like the rough and tumble punch they give. They fit better than any of the others too, and the black looks better (plus it has a narrower no-nonsense cable). Probably good with a KGSSHV (will find out). 
  
 The 307 was my first Stax. Listening to it now on a KGST as I wring out the bugs (the amp graduated from the 207.) Not as thick and punchy as the 207, a clear step up. But it has lots of punch in general, and also a slight thick warm in a very good way. Great all around contender, I heartily recommend it for somebody looking for an entry into Stax. Does everything well and nothing poorly, good with any amp. 
  
 The 404 and 404LE are practically the same. Oh there's some _slight_, very slight differences, hardly worth mentioning. To be truthful I like the 404 a bit more. The difference between them and other Lambdas is refinement. They're more refined than the others, but with that they get more thin. That's the tradeoff, with all the Stax I'm hearing this sliding scale. But anyhow I like the straight 404 a bit more as it's got enough refinement without being too thin, and the 404LE goes just a little too far in the refinement/thin axis for my taste. At any rate for my music (classical) I like these the best of the Lambda's (I'm guessing the Lambda Sig will be even more in this direction). KGST probably a good match (will find out). 
  
 Finally the Nova. This is the warmest and thickest of the lot. So much that it ventures into getting 'blobby' and indistinct. I believe they did this in response to the Lambda Sig to fix the "etch" complaints from customers. Well they went too far in the other direction, and cleared it up in later headphones. Probably my least favored, but I listen to it when I just want some relaxing music, kind of like kicking back in a lounging chair to take an afternoon map. Don't try Rachmaninov with this headphone. KGSSHV would probably be a good match (will find out).
  
 Just some notes on my thoughts about these cans from living with them.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Only one pair of Lambda in my collection, the original normal bias. Love them, tough.

 Ali


----------



## Earspeakers

My only real complaint is how they press against the ear lobes. Obviously nearness to the ears is one of the parameters they can easily adjust, and I would suspect it's the close distance that gives them their punch. The Omegas are farther away giving a more relaxed presentation I believe.


----------



## xantus

I've had my 404s for 11 years now.. original headband and pads still holding strong... that arc of green oxidation on the grills where it touches my ear.. I like the closeness. you feel the music while you hear it.. when i get haircuts I shave an inch around my ears cause I feel a good portion of the sound comes through bone conduction.

ive heard Orpheus, 007 on blue Hawaii... I know more refinement is possible.. but life has surface noise. I gained a new level of respect for how resolving these things are when i started aligning stylus with them.


----------



## David1961

astrostar59 said:


> More recently I head David's Esoteric K-01 with the BHSE and 009s and my own KGSShv and it was very good, probably on par with my Audio Note DAC 4.1 but with a different flavour, possibly colder? I am not sure as I haven't heard them together.
> Anyway, for anyone looking for a very detailed and smooth DAC that sounds realistic I would look at the Non oversampling DACs. They just seems to work for me.
> 
> Sorry off topic there, but related, as we talk a lot here about the phone here naturally, it is the Stax thread, but whith Stax phones being so detailed and 'close' to the music, the source becomes very important IMO.




I like a tube / SS combo, which in my case is the BHSE / K-01 ( I know the BHSE is hybrid, but it still uses tubes ) and Julian's is the Audio Note DAC 4.1 and KGSSHV.
So while I haven't heard Julian's DAC, I feel with it having tubes it will probably sound better with his KGSSHV, than my K-01 would with that amp.
While I like a tube SS combo, when I first heard my K-01 / BHSE with my 009's, I wasn't happy with certain songs in my collection, in fact I was so disappointed I was going to sell my 009's and get some 007's, but since using the PH tubes I couldn't be happier with my 009's.

In hearing Julian's KGSSHV with my K-01 along with my BHSE driving the 009's, the KGSSHV sounded very good, but because I'm not a basshead I prefer the BHSE.


----------



## astrostar59

david1961 said:


> I like a tube / SS combo, which in my case is the BHSE / K-01 ( I know the BHSE is hybrid, but it still uses tubes ) and Julian's is the Audio Note DAC 4.1 and KGSSHV.
> So while I haven't heard Julian's DAC, I feel with it having tubes it will probably sound better with his KGSSHV, than my K-01 would with that amp.
> While I like a tube SS combo, when I first heard my K-01 / BHSE with my 009's, I wasn't happy with certain songs in my collection, in fact I was so disappointed I was going to sell my 009's and get some 007's, but since using the PH tubes I couldn't be happier with my 009's.
> 
> In hearing Julian's KGSSHV with my K-01 along with my BHSE driving the 009's, the KGSSHV sounded very good, but because I'm not a basshead I prefer the BHSE.


 
 I agree 100% David. And I think, well in my listening over the years and various systems I have built up, having tubes somewhere in the chain is required to sound 'right'. Digital is so detailed, and possibly slightly to bright? or at least cold, without tubes it all gets too much.
  
*System Synergy*
 And this theory of 'system balancing' or 'system synergy' IMO is what ends up getting you a system that you looks forward to coming home to use, as opposed to casual listening. It also applies as much to a top end speaker system as well. Mid range and lower end gear has speakers that are 'kind' to the source or 'designed to fit', and have a softening built in. Manufactures won't admit it, but having heard sub 2k speakers and 20k speakers invariably you get more detail and less smear with the higher end gear. This in turn presents problems if you bolt it to a mid to low end source i.e it grates on your nerves.
  
 Which comes full circle, it makes perfect sense to spend equal amounts on the headphones, the amp and the DAC. Otherwise a fatiguing system may be the result IMO.
  
*Where to put the tubes?*
 That is an interesting subject. I had 300B SET power amps for my speakers, but they generated a lot of heat and I had some tubes damage the amps, thus got fed up and sold them. Tubes in the BHSE are not driven as hard I don't think, so a different situation. Tubes in a pre-amp can be good, to tame and humanise a DAC. Or tubes in the DAC can be great as well. Pre-amp and DAC tubes last years, so less hassle, and they have a dramatic effect on the sound as they are at the source when the signals are tiny.
  
 My speaker set-up has a tubed DAC then a passive pre then a solid state Plinius amp and sounds great.
 The 009s have the same DAC then drive directly the KGSShv and then 009s (no pre-amp).
  
 David has the K-01 driving his BHSE direct so again no extra pre-amp, only the Esoteric unit gain stage and it just works brilliantly.
 The less components in the chain the better, and if one of those has tubes, it seems to work.


----------



## kevin gilmore

someone asked me a question a while back about dacs that output a bit of dc.
  
 finally got around to testing it.
  
 kgsshv in balanced mode ONLY, has a common mode rejection range of +/-2.5v
 maybe a bit more.
  
 So if your balanced dac sits at 1.3V, and both sides are identical, it should actually work.


----------



## edstrelow

earspeakers said:


> How about some Lambda Love on the thread? I've been listening to a 207 Basic, 307 Signature, 404 Sig, 404LE Sig and Lambda Nova Signature. I've got a Lambda Signature coming in too - reputably the thinnest diagram in the lineup (1 um), and the source of the supposed "Stax Etch". Am very curious to hear.
> 
> The 207 is quite thick and punchy. They're also accident prone. I got this pair by accident from PJ, and instead of sending them back he gave me a deal on them to keep, so I use them for test headphones with my new amps. They also had the only 'snap crackle pop' I've heard with Stax. Shortly after I got them, I'd take my eyeglasses off while listening and got crackling from it. Yikes! It wasn't moving around that much and I didn't poke anything. I think they don't get a lot of QA at the factory. But you get a helluva lot of Stax love even with these guys, I like the rough and tumble punch they give. They fit better than any of the others too, and the black looks better (plus it has a narrower no-nonsense cable). Probably good with a KGSSHV (will find out).
> 
> ...


 
  
 And they turn into.much better phones when damped with sorbothane.  They Lambda LNS and 404 were the first phones I reported, when  I started damping the earcups of phones. These sounded better than the undamped 007A' s and I hardly listened to anything else for weeks.


----------



## s1rrah

I've had a vintage SRM-007T amp and a set of SR-007 Mk2/5's for about three weeks now ... 
  
 This is my first listen to such a set up, having only 323S/Lambda experience up to this point and although I'm still not sure what my feelings are regarding piano music and classical in general (which I listen to a lot of) ... I do know this: the 007T/Mk2 combo is one of the best rock music set ups I've ever heard. The guy I bought the MK2's from described them as a cross between the Senn HD650 and the Grado RS1's and I would have to agree, nearly a perfect rock music combination.
  
 I've read around the intrawebz that the newer SRM-007Tii amplifier is prone to distortion in the bass at higher listening levels but I can confirm without a doubt that this is not the case with this particular, older SRM-007T amplifier.  The volume levels this combo can reach and with excellent clarity/control is mind boggling.
  
 I have a head-fi acquintance here in Houston that has a Blue Hawaii and we're planning on having a little comparative listening session here soon (she also has some 007 Mk1's) and I'm really looking forward to it as I'm uber curious to see what the higher end, non-stax electrostatic amplifiers sound like.


----------



## Downrange

s1rrah said:


> I've had a vintage SRM-007T amp and a set of SR-007 Mk2/5's for about three weeks now ...
> 
> This is my first listen to such a set up, having only 323S/Lambda experience up to this point and although I'm still not sure what my feelings are regarding piano music and classical in general (which I listen to a lot of) ... I do know this: the 007T/Mk2 combo is one of the best rock music set ups I've ever heard. The guy I bought the MK2's from described them as a cross between the Senn HD650 and the Grado RS1's and I would have to agree, nearly a perfect rock music combination.
> 
> I've read around the intrawebz that the newer SRM-007Tii amplifier is prone to distortion in the bass at higher listening levels but I can confirm without a doubt that this is not the case with this particular, older SRM-007T amplifier.  The volume levels this combo can reach and with excellent clarity/control is mind boggling.


 
 Actually, the newer Tii is a vastly superior amp.  The thing is, you do not need to run gain very high for the O2s, as they can project the full range of dynamics at lower gain levels than you might believe (try turning them down, you may be shocked), unlike many other ear speakers and their amps.  I rarely ever crank my Tii above about 11 o'clock, regardless of the subject material, and the audio experience is close to "real time/space" (TAS, iow) for, especially, acoustic material that is miked correctly (see Mohr Layton, et al) and not micro-miked and mixed.  There is an unfortunate Head-Fi meme about Stax amps in general, and the 007T series in particular, that is, I assure you, quite false for TAS music lovers, as opposed to the pop/rock enthusiasts, who wouldn't know a sound stage if it hit them upside the head like a two-by-four.  Of course, it's hard to sell more expensive SS and Tube ($$$$$!) amps by folks with vested interests here if common folks figure out the T series does exactly what Stax engineered it to do!
 Just my .02!  Keep your 007T!


----------



## s1rrah

downrange said:


> Actually, the newer Tii is a vastly superior amp.  The thing is, you do not need to run gain very high for the O2s, as they can project the full range of dynamics at lower gain levels than you might believe (try turning them down, you may be shocked), unlike many other ear speakers and their amps.  I rarely ever crank my Tii above about 11 o'clock, regardless of the subject material, and the audio experience is close to "real time/space" (TAS, iow) for, especially, acoustic material that is miked correctly (see Mohr Layton, et al) and not micro-miked and mixed.  There is an unfortunate Head-Fi meme about Stax amps in general, and the 007T series in particular, that is, I assure you, quite false for TAS music lovers, as opposed to the pop/rock enthusiasts, who wouldn't know a sound stage if it hit them upside the head like a two-by-four.  Of course, it's hard to sell more expensive SS and Tube ($$$$$!) amps by folks with vested interests here if common folks figure out the T series does exactly what Stax engineered it to do!
> Just my .02!  Keep your 007T!


 
  
 I totally agree with your suggestion of "try turning them down" ... really .. in fact, I've found that turning the volume down solves 99.9% of my occasional issues with electrostatics (speaking strictly of classical, jazz, chamber, etc.) .. if the volume is set too high, then the mid range becomes way too forward, and *especially* with piano.
  
 With rock music this is not an issue .. things sound perfect from zero to max ... 
  
 But with delicate stuff .. chamber music with piano, especially .. I find the 007T/007Mk2 combo to be a bit too forward. Yet if I dial back the volume a bit .. I'd say .. to be more appropriate to what one would hear in a live performance .. then things come together quite nicely. And so again, I totally agree with you.


----------



## lojay

downrange said:


> Actually, the newer Tii is a vastly superior amp.  The thing is, you do not need to run gain very high for the O2s, as they can project the full range of dynamics at lower gain levels than you might believe (try turning them down, you may be shocked), unlike many other ear speakers and their amps.  I rarely ever crank my Tii above about 11 o'clock, regardless of the subject material, and the audio experience is close to "real time/space" (TAS, iow) for, especially, acoustic material that is miked correctly (see Mohr Layton, et al) and not micro-miked and mixed.  There is an unfortunate Head-Fi meme about Stax amps in general, and the 007T series in particular, that is, I assure you, quite false for TAS music lovers, as opposed to the pop/rock enthusiasts, who wouldn't know a sound stage if it hit them upside the head like a two-by-four.  Of course, it's hard to sell more expensive SS and Tube ($$$$$!) amps by folks with vested interests here if common folks figure out the T series does exactly what Stax engineered it to do!
> Just my .02!  Keep your 007T!




I do not see the need to attack those who have been vocal about the differences between the non Stax amps and Stax amps. In fact I share the views of many others on this thread who you are criticising. I had the Stax SRM007TA some time ago driving the SR009. It sounded thin, flat, muddied and veiled, lacking in bass and soundstage etc compared to the KGSSHV. I lived with both amps. 

The 007TA was quite delicate sounding and intimate, if you like that sound. I find it a colouration. I soon moved on to the Woo WEE and even that was better, but still unsatisfactory. But pairing the 009 with the KGSSHV was the first time I heard the 009 open up. I seldom say this having been on Headfi for 10 years, and I often say that differences are subtle at best, but sorry, I disagree with you and must say that the SRM007TA is much inferior to the KGSSHV. How much so? It sounded so bad (for the price) I wanted to sell my 009s with the amp once I got them.

PS I mainly listen to acoustic, jazz, ambient electronica, classical, pop and a little bit of rock. So no, it is not a thing about musical preferences. And I know I proper soundstage when I hear one. In fact I prefer the HD800 for its soundstage (driven by the EC445) than the 009, unless the recording is intimate and is supposed to be listened to in the front row.


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## s1rrah

I still think the SRM-007T/SR-007 Mk2.5 is among the best headphone listening systems I've ever heard in regards to general sonic retrieval and especially with rock music (though not exclusively) .. the system sounds really fine with almost everything .. certain classical piano works still bug me but as a previous post person suggested, it's generally a matter of volume ... interesting ...


----------



## lojay

s1rrah said:


> I still think the SRM-007T/SR-007 Mk2.5 is among the best headphone listening systems I've ever heard in regards to general sonic retrieval and especially with rock music (though not exclusively) .. the system sounds really fine with almost everything .. certain classical piano works still bug me but as a previous post person suggested, it's generally a matter of volume ... interesting ...


The problem with this hobby is that you don't know what you are missing until you hear it, so maybe I should shut up and save you some money.


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## greggf

lojay, what volume level do you use when you listen?


----------



## lojay

greggf said:


> lojay, what volume level do you use when you listen?


 60-80 max dB.


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## David1961

When I listen to my headphones, I like to listen at a certain volume, ( although I don't know what that is in dB's ) whether that's with my HD-600's or 009's, and this volume isn't too low or too high.

When I had the SRM-007t, I was listening at around the same volume with that Stax amp, as I do with the BHSE, and all I can say is I'd never got back to the SRM-007t.


P.S. With the BHSE I have the volume knob at around 10.30.


----------



## kothganesh

My God, David 10:30 ? With the KGSShv, I cannot go past 9. Had an extended 5 hour session with that amp and the SR 009 yesterday. Found myself turning down the volume a tad as time progressed. Could be my age as well.


----------



## David1961

kothganesh said:


> My God, David 10:30 ? With the KGSShv, I cannot go past 9. Had an extended 5 hour session with that amp and the SR 009 yesterday. Found myself turning down the volume a tad as time progressed. Could be my age as well.




10.30am, the BHSE's volume knob goes to around 5.00pm.


----------



## kothganesh

david1961 said:


> 10.30am, the BHSE's volume knob goes to around 5.00pm.


 

 Same with my amp as well... never mind, I was genuinely astonished at that level, should try it some day


----------



## David1961

kothganesh said:


> david1961 said:
> 
> 
> > 10.30am, the BHSE's volume knob goes to around 5.00pm.
> ...




There are some that have listened to my 009/BHSE at a lot higher volume than I do.


----------



## lojay

david1961 said:


> When I listen to my headphones, I like to listen at a certain volume, ( although I don't know what that is in dB's ) whether that's with my HD-600's or 009's, and this volume isn't too low or too high.
> 
> When I had the SRM-007t, I was listening at around the same volume with that Stax amp, as I do with the BHSE, and all I can say is I'd never got back to the SRM-007t.
> 
> ...


 
   
 Quote:


david1961 said:


> There are some that have listened to my 009/BHSE at a lot higher volume than I do.


  

 I cited my dB levels because when I compare gear I make sure my comparisons are SPL matched. That is important because different gain levels are known to affect one's perception of sonic differences. I use my iPhone app to measure the dB levels on each headphone. 
  
 How far your volume attenuator is turned is not always reflective of the actual volume (measured in dB). That is because your DAC may have a different voltage output than other DACs and you may have other pre-amp components in between. 
  
 I think for most 70dB average is the normal listening level. Anything more than 80 dB average is considered loud and more than 90 dB causative of hearing loss.


----------



## David1961

I've read somewhere that to get the optimum SQ, a certain volume needs to be got to, but because our hearing is different that volume level will be different.


----------



## xantus

david1961 said:


> I've read somewhere that to get the optimum SQ, a certain volume needs to be got to, but because our hearing is different that volume level will be different.




there is more to this statement than most headfiers will ever find... your ear is a muscle, if you lifted nothing but 3 lb barbells you'd not get very far..


----------



## Jones Bob

Have you verified that your sources both put out the same maximum voltage? My Schiit Gungnir puts out 4V RMS and I barely get to 8:30 on the volume knob on my KGST.


----------



## kothganesh

jones bob said:


> Have you verified that your sources both put out the same maximum voltage? My Schiit Gungnir puts out 4V RMS and I barely get to 8:30 on the volume knob on my KGST.



JB, I have the Gungnir as well. Looks like we have similar listening levels


----------



## Earspeakers

Most of the Stax put out equivalent SPL except the 4070. I have to crank it up another 30-45 degrees to get an equivalent volume level out of those cans. The Omegas take a bit more too, and the Lambdas the least.


----------



## Earspeakers

Note on stands, for my money the factory Stax version is the one to get. I just got a Sieveking Omega stand from a Massdrop sale. Looks really nice, but frankly isn't that practical. It stretches out my Stax headphones, _out_ of their natural resting state. The Stax cover also doesn't fit on as well. The Stax stand is made from Hokkaido wood (and looks better in my opinion), and has the Stax logo to boot. The Sieveking comes with a useless cloth bag you throw in a drawer. The 009 in particular loves to be on a Stax stand. The two ear cups naturally clamp onto the stand. 
  
 I also have a vintage Store front Stax stand I use for when I step away for a moment. Maybe I'm just a Stax guy at heart


----------



## brokenthumb

I use JRiver's volume leveling that keeps the differences between tracks on the same album so I don't need to keep messing with the volume knob when changing albums.  The SRM-323S goes from 0-10 and I listen dead on 4 or what would be 11:00 on a clock.  That measures 76 dB average on a pink noise track using a SPL meter from radio shack.  This is using a Gungnir single ended to the 323S into a SR-507.
  
 If I use Spotify or iTunes I have to keep playing with the volume pot because I'm not going to use their volume leveling.


----------



## brokenthumb

earspeakers said:


> Note on stands, for my money the factory Stax version is the one to get. I just got a Sieveking Omega stand from a Massdrop sale. Looks really nice, but frankly isn't that practical. It stretches out my Stax headphones, _out_ of their natural resting state. The Stax cover also doesn't fit on as well. The Stax stand is made from Hokkaido wood (and looks better in my opinion), and has the Stax logo to boot. The Sieveking comes with a useless cloth bag you throw in a drawer. The 009 in particular loves to be on a Stax stand. The two ear cups naturally clamp onto the stand.
> 
> I also have a vintage Store front Stax stand I use for when I step away for a moment. Maybe I'm just a Stax guy at heart


 
  
 Thanks for this, been looking for a stand for my 507.  Was going to go with a Omega stand but will probably go instead with the Stax one and dust cover from Elusive disc.  Should have ordered it with the 507 and got 10% off.  Crap.


----------



## vinyllp33

Peter Walker, the founder of Quad, used to say that the volume control should be used almost like a focus control (much like that of a camera lens) to 'place' the sound stage correctly relative to the listener; in other words, there is a 'right' volume for each recording.


----------



## Earspeakers

brokenthumb said:


> Thanks for this, been looking for a stand for my 507.  Was going to go with a Omega stand but will probably go instead with the Stax one and dust cover from Elusive disc.  Should have ordered it with the 507 and got 10% off.  Crap.


 

 Good, I had a feeling somebody would benefit from this. The one benefit with the Omega is that it is slightly more stable, but overall I don't like it and wish I hadn't gotten one. I'll probably sell it.


----------



## astrostar59

kothganesh said:


> JB, I have the Gungnir as well. Looks like we have similar listening levels


 
 I think 2v is standard at an output impedance of 500k. My DAC puts out 2v but output impedance is very low at 10 ohms as it has output transformers at the last stage.
  
 Also if the user has got RCA or XLR (single ended or balanced). Standard balanced can be 6v at least.
  
 I noticed the 009s are quite a bit more efficient (louder) than the 007 MK2s.
  
 The other thing is the music genre and how it was recorded. If you open up an AIFF and check for highest level at 0 db, look at the lower levels. In some music the lower levels are really not low at all, around -4 db for example on Rammstein or Alex M.o.r.p.h. (for example) The modern trend to pump up the lower levels to close on the peak levels which makes the recording sound a LOT louder.
  
 So, not a science IMO. Lots of variables going on. I have my KGSShv set to 11 o'clock.
  
 BTW I hate digital volume. I hav tried Audirvana+ and Amarra volume and it is horrid, lots of SQ loss. It seems miles better to run them 100% volume out then use a really high quality pot on a pre-amp or passive IMO.


----------



## HemiSam

I received my new SR-007A's about a week ago.  Playing them via my KGST.  They were quite a bit warmer and with more low end than I expected.  Tons of detail.  I loved them right away and fell asleep listening to them on the recliner a few nights within a week.  Couldn't get enough of them.
  
 Unfortunately, a channel imbalance manifested itself....crap.  Lost a good bit of the sound out of the right side.  What a dip, especially for what should be a high-end product.  Back they have to go...
  
 HS


----------



## Earspeakers

hemisam said:


> I received my new SR-007A's about a week ago.  Playing them via my KGST.  They were quite a bit warmer and with more low end than I expected.  Tons of detail.  I loved them right away and fell asleep listening to them on the recliner a few nights within a week.  Couldn't get enough of them.


 
  
 Yes the 007's are quite warm - too warm for my taste, especially the mk1's, but many people like it. Falling asleep with them is common! I'm fine with it though. 
  
 On your KGST, did you build or buy? How stable is your balance and bias? I'm not sure if I'm having issues with this or not. 
  


> Unfortunately, a channel imbalance manifested itself....crap.  Lost a good bit of the sound out of the right side.  What a dip, especially for what should be a high-end product.  Back they have to go...


 
  
 Unfortunate! I wonder what physically would cause such an imbalance. It's just a capacitor, perhaps the coating reacting to a new environment?


----------



## HemiSam

earspeakers said:


> Yes the 007's are quite warm - too warm for my taste, especially the mk1's, but many people like it. Falling asleep with them is common! I'm fine with it though.
> 
> On your KGST, did you build or buy? How stable is your balance and bias? I'm not sure if I'm having issues with this or not.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have been following your build on head case.  No issues such as you are having.  headinclouds built mine.  Exceptional amp...really.  The detail and power (it's a 400v unit) with control is pretty darn impressive.  I was listening with the Koss ESP's for a good while before the 007's arrived.
  
 Have you tried a Japanese made SR-007A?  I thought they were great while they worked properly.  Then again, I am a big fan of the HD650's.  The 007A's were brand new...none of the Mk1 stuff as I didn't want any issues yet I managed to run into a problem despite buying new.  I posted it here in case anyone runs into similar channel imbalance issues with their newer 007's.  I had read that was an 009 issue, but it appears it may be a broader problem for Stax.  
  
 I found the 007A's very engaging and will be missing them while I sort out getting a replacement pair.  Damn shame, really.  I don't do bright very well...more of an analog guy so didn't see much point in buying the 009's.  I can always try them later if I get bored, but I really didn't see that happening...was very happy with the purchase until they failed.  
  
 HS


----------



## Earspeakers

hemisam said:


> I have been following your build on head case.  No issues such as you are having.  headinclouds built mine.  Exceptional amp...really.  The detail and power (it's a 400v unit) with control is pretty darn impressive.  I was listening with the Koss ESP's for a good while before the 007's arrived.


 
  
 The first bug was easy, a mislabeled silk screen. I can't say as I'm having trouble with calibration now, but I can't say I'm not. 
  


> Have you tried a Japanese made SR-007A?  I thought they were great while they worked properly.  Then again, I am a big fan of the HD650's.  The 007A's were brand new...none of the Mk1 stuff as I didn't want any issues yet I managed to run into a problem despite buying new.  I posted it here in case anyone runs into similar channel imbalance issues with their newer 007's.  I had read that was an 009 issue, but it appears it may be a broader problem for Stax.
> 
> I found the 007A's very engaging and will be missing them while I sort out getting a replacement pair.  Damn shame, really.  I don't do bright very well...more of an analog guy so didn't see much point in buying the 009's.  I can always try them later if I get bored, but I really didn't see that happening...was very happy with the purchase until they failed.


 
  
 I've got a new Japanese pair (not that it makes any difference) of 007's coming in this or next week.


----------



## NoPants

The board isn't mislabeled if you use a 400V supply, the original value used to design the amplifier


----------



## Earspeakers

nopants said:


> The board isn't mislabeled if you use a 400V supply, the original value used to design the amplifier


 

 Ha! Got me on that one, I concede.


----------



## kugino

got ine





earspeakers said:


> The first bug was easy, a mislabeled silk screen. I can't say as I'm having trouble with calibration now, but I can't say I'm not.
> 
> 
> I've got a new Japanese pair (not that it makes any difference) of 007's coming in this or next week.


 got one last week as well...but waiting for my 717 to come in later this week before giving them a listen. will report if I find any imbalance.


----------



## HemiSam

Hopefully no one else suffers the joy of channel imbalance on a new 007.  The KGST is a rocking good amp, regardless.  I very much like what it does for the Koss and what it did for my short-lived stint with the 007A's.
  
 HS


----------



## troymadison

I'm getting pissed that I like the SR-507 so much that I'm thinking about getting a KGSSHV


----------



## wink

Just do it..


----------



## Earspeakers

wink said:


> Just do it..


 

 My God man, what he says, just do it!!! I got a 307/323S as an experiment. Ended up selling an extensive photography hobby to fund an extensive Stax hobby. Honestly though I'd be very happy with just a 307 and a KGST. 
  
 I was listening to some of my old dynamic cans the other day. I could only use them for about a half hour before I get tired and have to put away. Not Stax which I'll happily use all day. Oddly, there's really not that much difference between them in a way, but there's an enormous difference too. Stax just steps over the Uncanny Valley.


----------



## dripf

earspeakers said:


> My God man, what he says, just do it!!! I got a 307/323S as an experiment. Ended up selling an extensive photography hobby to fund an extensive Stax hobby. Honestly though I'd be very happy with just a 307 and a KGST.
> 
> I was listening to some of my old dynamic cans the other day. I could only use them for about a half hour before I get tired and have to put away. Not Stax which I'll happily use all day. Oddly, there's really not that much difference between them in a way, but there's an enormous difference too. Stax just steps over the Uncanny Valley.


 
  
 I've gotta tell you, my thoughts match yours. I bought the 3170 because I was suffering less with EQed Samsung buds than my dynamic pair. I was going to feed the Stax a DF EQ and be happy with an accurate, channel matched system that was free of complaints.
  
 It didn't turn out that way. The 307 was reproducing music with a phenomenal and novel level of quality. String instruments were inherently pleasurable. I stopped using EQ.
  
 I'm not sure what is happening here. Is the electrostatic transducer genuinely leaving dynamic in the dust? Or is it all a matter of frequency response? Are Audio-Technica headphones just inferior, where some dynamics perform equal to Stax?


----------



## Earspeakers

dripf said:


> String instruments were inherently pleasurable. I stopped using EQ.
> I'm not sure what is happening here. Is the electrostatic transducer genuinely leaving dynamic in the dust? Or is it all a matter of frequency response? Are Audio-Technica headphones just inferior, where some dynamics perform equal to Stax?


 
  
 Yes agree that strings most easily show the differences between 'stat and dynamics. Large ensemble also. 
  
 I don't think it has anything to do with freq response but rather transient response. My take is that the transducer element (the diaphragm) is 'locked' to the electrical signal, unlike dynamics which are more loosely coupled through a magnetic field. The amount of engineering it takes is pretty amazing, two inversely driven plates with a very high voltage bias and AC amplified signal, combined with an extremely low mass vibrator, only a couple square inches and all within an inch or two of your ear. Basically they threw everything they could at it to have absolute control over that transducer. 
  
 The only dynamic I've heard that comes close is horns, but those have other issues I personally didn't like. But at that, it would be interesting if somebody combined a electrostatic driver with horn loading to match the impedance of air. Might be simple, just take a Omega driver and put it at the throat of say an Oris horn (I'd try it if I still had them). That would have to be the absolute pinnacle of transient response transducers.


----------



## xantus

bigger is better... the pure size of sound being emitted goes to the Stax driver. 
planar magnetics are getting close... but even an EL-8 open into a chord Hugo .. while nice.. still wasn't quite there.


----------



## Cortes

Hi,
  
  I've a 2nd hand SRM 727A to run a new SR-007A. I bought a very nice neotech AG/AU wires and  some good XLR oyaide connectos to do my own XLR interconnector from DAC to SRM 727A.  But before of that.. 
  
 Do I build a regular pair of XLR intereconnectos to run the 727A, or do I solder  a side of the cables to the amplifier?.  In case soldering to the amplifier is a better idea, where to do, in the large black cable to goes to the board, or directly I solder into the board?.
  
 Thanks!.


----------



## Advert

no one use woo audio GES here?


----------



## Earspeakers

I've got a couple of the old Stax transformer 'amps'. Haven't used them much, keeping an eye out for a good cheap amplifier to drive them. If anybody has suggestions I'm all ears.


----------



## Advert

earspeakers said:


> I've got a couple of the old Stax transformer 'amps'. Haven't used them much, keeping an eye out for a good cheap amplifier to drive them. If anybody has suggestions I'm all ears.




What kind of transformer? Woo audio WEE perhaps?
I use WEE also


----------



## Earspeakers

advert said:


> What kind of transformer? Woo audio WEE perhaps?
> I use WEE also


 

 I just said it was Stax.


----------



## Advert

Sorry, i dont quite understand... What is stax transformer amp? Is it an original stax amp? Or something like "energizer" to drive stax from speaker amp just like woo audio WEE?


----------



## FrankCooter

As far as I know, there's no such thing as a "Stax transformer Amp" in the usual way one thinks of amplifiers. What is being referred to here is the SRD "energizer", which is simply a step-up transformer with a bias source. Same as your WEE.
  
 The "energizer" assumes the character of whatever amplifier is driving it, only with a rolled off frequency response and the resolution of the driving amplifier knocked down a notch.
  
 It was built as a cheap way to get around the need for a dedicated electrostatic amp.  The Japanese are capable of building superb transformers ( Tango Tamura), they certainly didn't do it here.
  
 I keep one because it's fun to try out different speaker amps with electrostatic headphones. Want to see what your 200W home theater amp or your vintage McIntosh sounds like with your Stax?  The "energizer" is the answer.


----------



## troymadison

I'm not of a fan of energizers, at least not the Woo Wee


----------



## kevin gilmore

actually stax did make a transformer amp I don't remember the model number at the moment.
  
 it was a chip amp driving a transformer.
  
 it was awful.


----------



## rx79ez08

kevin gilmore said:


> actually stax did make a transformer amp I don't remember the model number at the moment.
> 
> it was a chip amp driving a transformer.
> 
> it was awful.




Are you referring to the srd-x?

The one with the automotive opamps?


----------



## Advert

troymadison said:


> I'm not of a fan of energizers, at least not the Woo Wee


 
  
 yes, i also think that the energizers is a "bottle neck" to stax capability (maybe)
 but what is wrong with the WEE? is there another better energizers?
  
  


frankcooter said:


> As far as I know, there's no such thing as a "Stax transformer Amp" in the usual way one thinks of amplifiers. What is being referred to here is the SRD "energizer", which is simply a step-up transformer with a bias source. Same as your WEE.
> 
> The "energizer" assumes the character of whatever amplifier is driving it, only with a rolled off frequency response and the resolution of the driving amplifier knocked down a notch.
> 
> ...


 
  
 what if i use WEE to drive stax007mk2 with "high end" home audio amp? like Karan acoustic KA M 2000 (plus preamp robert koda Takumi K-10)
 i am affraid if the power from the amp is too big for stax to handle and broke the headphone.. ?


----------



## Tachikoma

Yeah, that can happen, which is why many vintage Stax sets have holes in the diaphragm. But that's mainly from people being careless, you won't damage the headphone as long as you are careful with the volume control.


----------



## kugino

does this look like the proper jumper settings on my 717 for 120V?


----------



## Downrange

advert said:


> yes, i also think that the energizers is a "bottle neck" to stax capability (maybe)
> but what is wrong with the WEE? is there another better energizers?
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Just my experience - had the Stax hi-bias jobbie (SRD-7?) and tried it with both a really smooth Dynaco Stereo 70, modified, with a set of original Mullards, as well as a high-ish end SS amp, and the SRM-007Tii handily bested it.  Really, unless you want to spring for a BH, there's no point in spending more on an amp than the Stax four-tube model.  It also bested an original KGSS (not HV) for all but the most dynamic recordings, easily besting it for low level detail in classical and softer jazz.  Still using it, as there is a limit to how much I want to spend on headphones.  YMMV, especially if you like things really LOUD.


----------



## Advert

downrange said:


> Just my experience - had the Stax hi-bias jobbie (SRD-7?) and tried it with both a really smooth Dynaco Stereo 70, modified, with a set of original Mullards, as well as a high-ish end SS amp, and the SRM-007Tii handily bested it.  Really, unless you want to spring for a BH, there's no point in spending more on an amp than the Stax four-tube model.  It also bested an original KGSS (not HV) for all but the most dynamic recordings, easily besting it for low level detail in classical and softer jazz.  Still using it, as there is a limit to how much I want to spend on headphones.  YMMV, especially if you like things really LOUD.


 
 i am hearing at normal volume level 
  
 but, in my country it is so hard to find stax amplifier, and in my place, high end home audio is very popular (i joined in very high and home audio community), thats why i can try a lot high end amplifier. and if it possible, i would try it connect to stax  but i am affraid if the power is too much to stax to handle
  
 also i am VERY curious what sound stax can produce with more than 75,000$ setup include cables
 just curious


----------



## Senes

Hi guys

 I recently had the opportunity to hear the SRS 2170 and I found it amazing (well, it was my first high end headphone so...., now I want to try high end audio technica...)
 And I was wondering:
 Is there huge differences between the 2170 and the 3170 (307 + 323s) ?
 'cuz I think if I buy a Stax headphone I could'nt afford more than the 3170 (well, MAYBE SR 407 + 323s...)
  

 I hope i'll get some great answers


----------



## n3rdling

They should be close to identical; I'd just get the cheaper one.


----------



## Senes

Seriously 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Well, so I should get sr 207 if you're right

 And for the amps? Because I can't find SR 207 alone (only with SRM 252s) on amazon.jap, so is there a huge difference between 252S, 323S and 006ts?
 (And well, I believe you for the headphones, but I would be a lot surprised if it's the same case with 252S vs 323S)


----------



## yawg

arnaud said:


> - Headband vibration is difficult to believe but I guess we can hear very very tiny colorations.
> - Sennheiser actually claimed the visco-elastic treatment on the HD800 was especially aimed toward attenuating those resonances in the headband
> - On a mechanical standpoint, it is correct that any sound in the earcup / vibration of the earcup will somewhat transmit to the gimbal and other mechanical parts and they will vibrate in turn especially at  specific frequencies we refer to as modes.
> - Now this vibration might feedback to the earcup and radiate back into the earcup cavity (structure borne path)
> ...


 


edstrelow said:


> Your discussion of paths, , makes me wonder how the distortion which appears to be damped by sorbothane  is getting back to the ear. Is it because the earcups are vibrating and thus stimulating the eardrum or is it getting back to the drivers and interfering with their operation, or if I follow your argument even based on bone conduction.
> 
> I fully understand that persons who haven't heard the phonomenon in person  can't imagine it being especially significant.


 

 Interesting discussion but it's getting way too esoteric IMO. Everytime I listen to my LNS (upgraded with the 507 leather pads) I'm amazed how they "disappear" as transducers. I feel I'm right there. Although their bass response is quite lean compared to my custom 3.6 Maggies.
  
 You guys are on an eternal search for the perfect thing. No such thing exists in the dialectics of solid matter. I have made my peace with that fact.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## arnaud

Don't drag me in, I'm not the sorbothane man!


----------



## wink

He's the Stax and sushi man - Electrostatic fish fillets.


----------



## edstrelow

yawg said:


> Interesting discussion but it's getting way too esoteric IMO. Everytime I listen to my LNS (upgraded with the 507 leather pads) I'm amazed how they "disappear" as transducers. I feel I'm right there. Although their bass response is quite lean compared to my custom 3.6 Maggies.
> 
> You guys are on an eternal search for the perfect thing. No such thing exists in the dialectics of solid matter. I have made my peace with that fact.
> 
> Good luck!


 
 I showed  sorbed phones for 2 days at the recent Canjam in SoCal to 50-70 persons (I didn't count but I was so occupied that I didn' get to see much of the rest of the program.) Very few people said they couldn't hear the difference, most commented on the improvements, some were amazed and a few said I had the best sound in the place.  It's not a trivial effect, more to the point it shows that headphone designers, with the possible exception of Sennheiser, have missed a major design problem, the dissipation of energy in the earcups. 
  
 I don't know how much you paid for upgraded earpads for the LNS but I I use about 50 cents worth of sorbothane in my LNS  and the sound change is a revealation. Actually, I think part of the reason some pads help sound is the same reason as why sorb works. It acts to dissipate energy by converting it to heat, in accordance with Newtonian principles.


----------



## yawg

Got my leather pads from AudioCubes Japan. Imports from Japan are a bitch in the Netherlands. I had to pay 132 € for them plus the Dutch customs let me wait more than two weeks. When I buy from private I have them declare a lower value, up to 55 US$ are import tax free plus I get the stuff in less than a week. The original pleather pads were worn out anyway.
  
 I'd love to see some detailed photos of your mod. Thanks.


----------



## edstrelow

yawg said:


> Got my leather pads from AudioCubes Japan. Imports from Japan are a bitch in the Netherlands. I had to pay 132 € for them plus the Dutch customs let me wait more than two weeks. When I buy from private I have them declare a lower value, up to 55 US$ are import tax free plus I get the stuff in less than a week. The original pleather pads were worn out anyway.
> 
> I'd love to see some detailed photos of your mod. Thanks.


 
 This is a picture of what I did with the LNS and 404 Lambdas.  soren_brix has also tried putting sorbothane along the edegs of the drivers. Feel free to experiment.  This has been a trial and error activity.
  

  
 Here is the thread in which I discuss these mods in greater detail.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/cleaning-up-the-sound-of-stax-phones-with-sorbothane-lambdas-srxiii-pro-sr003-sr007-and-finally-the-sigma


----------



## n3rdling

It should be noted that the test Ed setup at CanJam wasn't very scientific at all, so "hearing the difference" I think is still under question.  Unless I missed something, no two headphones were the same model, so testing the effects of sorbothane damping (with vs without) wasn't really possible.  I could see it making a difference, but I'd probably do the mounting a little differently.  I'm actually pretty stupid because I had a LNS in a box at the meet the whole time and didn't think to leave it at Ed's table so people could at least compare a LNS with sorbothane damping vs stock.  Next time.
  
 I did get a chance to bring my O2mk1 over and compare it to the O2mk2 with sorb, and preferred the O2mk1 FWIW.  The bass was more linear and the mids weren't so upfront.  Both excellent headphones though.


----------



## edstrelow

n3rdling said:


> It should be noted that the test Ed setup at CanJam wasn't very scientific at all, so "hearing the difference" I think is still under question.  Unless I missed something, no two headphones were the same model, so testing the effects of sorbothane damping (with vs without) wasn't really possible.  I could see it making a difference, but I'd probably do the mounting a little differently.  I'm actually pretty stupid because I had a LNS in a box at the meet the whole time and didn't think to leave it at Ed's table so people could at least compare a LNS with sorbothane damping vs stock.  Next time.
> 
> I did get a chance to bring my O2mk1 over and compare it to the O2mk2 with sorb, and preferred the O2mk1 FWIW.  The bass was more linear and the mids weren't so upfront.  Both excellent headphones though.


 
 I  didn't see any scientific experiments on display at Canjam.  In other equipment displays,  you were only given the chance to listen to what was set up or in some situations possibly plug your own phones into someone else's system.
  
 In fact  I set up a direct comparison of similar damped and undamped phones to allow people to make their own comparisons.  I did not have 2 identical phones  to compare but I did put the 2 most similar, a Sigma pro and a Sigma 404. running off the separate SRM1 Mk2 amps but running running off the same cd system so you could her the same music on the different damped and undamped phones just by taking them off and on your head.
  
 I recall that n3rdling came over for about 10 minutes,  brought over his 007 mk1  and commented about the different frequency responses of the two 007 phones.  I didn't listen to his phones.  His opinion is a fair comment and I do not argue with people about what they hear and/or prefer.
  
 This is a cheap tweak, easily reversible and I suggest anyone with an interest  in improving the sound of their current equipment give it a shot.  I stand by the mods I have reported in my other thread. Sorbothane may not be the ultimate solution to headphone ills, there may be better products out there or better cup design may be able to eliminate the resonance issues  but I maintain this issues have not been properly dealt with by virtually any company so far, other than Sennheiser whose description of the HD800 discusses what look like the same issues.  They even talk about damping the  HD800 metal headband, which was the problem I noted with the 007A which got me started on this issue.


----------



## n3rdling

Right, I'm just saying that in order to have a good idea about what a mod does you should try to eliminate as many other factors as possible.  Ideally one would be able to test the exact same headphone unit with and without mods, as you did in your initial experiments, but that's obviously not the easiest thing to do at a meet and also introduces auditory memory factors.  The next best thing would be to have the same model of headphone with and without mods side by side, but that introduces unit variability problems.  Stax probably has close to the best unit to unit variability marks in the industry though, which is why I wish I left my LNS at your table.  I think once you start using different models for the tests, things fall apart quickly though.  The Sigma Pro and Sigma 404 should be similar, but I don't think I've ever heard an owner, including yourself, say they sound the same.  With the upstream chain remaining the same and the phones being similar, I think you did the best you could, but it still wasn't a valid test to me.


----------



## Earspeakers

I'm having something happen with my pair of 307's - haven't verified or tested it with any other pair. 
  
 I'll be listening to some vocal piece, recordings of the Bach Cantatas for example. Rarely a strong soloist will reach the peak of their line, and one or both of my drivers will fall apart. It turns into a buzzing, mostly in the left, but sometimes is in the right a little bit too. But usually ends in the left earpiece sounding like it's over driven and can't go any further. 
  
 I'm not which is causing it. This is with a KGST, either the amp can't handle the signal, or the 307 can't handle it. Thoughts?


----------



## dripf

earspeakers said:


> I'm having something happen with my pair of 307's - haven't verified or tested it with any other pair.
> 
> I'll be listening to some vocal piece, recordings of the Bach Cantatas for example. Rarely a strong soloist will reach the peak of their line, and one or both of my drivers will fall apart. It turns into a buzzing, mostly in the left, but sometimes is in the right a little bit too. But usually ends in the left earpiece sounding like it's over driven and can't go any further.
> 
> I'm not which is causing it. This is with a KGST, either the amp can't handle the signal, or the 307 can't handle it. Thoughts?


 
  
 I had a buzzy distortion when listening to the 307 at high loudness. I swapped the headphones back to front and it remained on the left side only. It's actually my left ear's acoustic reflex causing it to what I can tell.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

edstrelow said:


> I  didn't see any scientific experiments on display at Canjam.  In other equipment displays,  you were only given the chance to listen to what was set up or in some situations possibly plug your own phones into someone else's system.
> 
> In fact  I set up a direct comparison of similar damped and undamped phones to allow people to make their own comparisons.  I did not have 2 identical phones  to compare but I did put the 2 most similar, a Sigma pro and a Sigma 404. running off the separate SRM1 Mk2 amps but running running off the same cd system so you could her the same music on the different damped and undamped phones just by taking them off and on your head.
> 
> ...


 
 have you tried this with the original sr-lambda?  I was considering it.  where did you get the sorbothane you've been using?  and what thickness?


----------



## Don Quichotte

keithpgdrb said:


> where did you get the sorbothane you've been using?  and what thickness?


 
 Edstrelow kindly gave me this link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SORBOTHANE-SHEET-6X6x1-8-150mmx150mmx2-4mm-PAD-SELF-STICK-SHEET-AUDIOQUEST-/251852273912?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa390b8f8 
 I have bought one sheet, arrived yesterday but I haven't got the time to try the mod on my 303's yet. Next week - and I will post impressions in his thread.


----------



## edstrelow

keithpgdrb said:


> have you tried this with the original sr-lambda?  I was considering it.  where did you get the sorbothane you've been using?  and what thickness?


 
 Both ebay and amazon offer a good variety of sorb at reasonable prices. If you check my thread you will see I have tried several types but mostly 1/8 inch thick of 40-50 duro (hardness)


----------



## VoodooSamurai

Does the Stax SR007 have more musicality than sr009?


----------



## NoPants

yes


----------



## zolkis

voodoosamurai said:


> Does the Stax SR007 have more musicality than sr009?


 
  
 Define musicality. This cannot be a simplistic yes/no answer. I have both, an early series 007 Mk1 with the old style box (supposed to be from the best bunch), and a newer 009. IMO the 009 sounds definitely more musical than the stock 007 Mk1. More true to the timbre, instruments just sound right, in a sound stage that is right.
  
 I have modded both the 007 and the 009 (ear pads). The 009 mod made the bass lines more clear, more deep and more punchy, which sounded very musical and pleasant, but after a time I thought the slight change in neutrality actually subtracts from the original value. Behold, I prioritized neutrality over "musicality" despite I am more like an emotional listener than an intellectual one. The 009 has some magic indeed.
  
 The 007 mod brought it very close to the 009 tonality, and with some music is even preferable, generally it's a beautiful, smooth, slightly sepia tone, but still the midrange is more recessed, and so is the treble, when compared with the 009. The presence of the 009 sounds just more real. Resolution is similar (you hear similar amount of details and dynamic gradations with both), even though the difference in presence elevation makes some things more evident with the 009.
  
 In turn, in the treble I think the 007 has more realistic tonality, despite being slightly recessed. The 009 sounds thinner (and somehow more artificial) in comparison, but a KGSSHV and proper sources help that.
  
 So the problem of the 007 is the midrange recess, which cannot be cured with my ear pad mods - I guess the membrane needs to be changed for that. A BHSE can cure that to some extent.
  
 So both are musical, and both are nowhere from live acoustic concert. They are situated at different sides of reference, the 007 a bit farther than the 009. This was a deliberate choice Stax made. From there it's only question of money and priorities. You'd likely be happy with the [modded] 007, and likely even happier with the 009 if you wanted to spend a lot more on that extra musical neutrality and realism. 
  
 The 009 also has a deceiving property that it changes a lot according to what you feed to it. The 007 sounds more consistent vs sources. A lot of reviews may be affected by a certain choice of sources with the 009.


----------



## zxathlon

Got my first Stax: a Lambda Signature and it sounds amazingly good. Super balanced, detailed and lifelike sound.
 Are the modern Stax models even better?
 How is SR507 compared to Lambda Signature?


----------



## edstrelow

zolkis said:


> Define musicality. This cannot be a simplistic yes/no answer. I have both, an early series 007 Mk1 with the old style box (supposed to be from the best bunch), and a newer 009. IMO the 009 sounds definitely more musical than the stock 007 Mk1. More true to the timbre, instruments just sound right, in a sound stage that is right.
> 
> I have modded both the 007 and the 009 (ear pads). The 009 mod made the bass lines more clear, more deep and more punchy, which sounded very musical and pleasant, but after a time I thought the slight change in neutrality actually subtracts from the original value. Behold, I prioritized neutrality over "musicality" despite I am more like an emotional listener than an intellectual one. The 009 has some magic indeed.
> 
> ...


 
 My sorbothane mods to the 007 bring the midrange up somewhat.  What is still not ideal is that the bass is slightly boomy.  This was the hardest aspect of these phones to get working, however I did at least get them to the point where I was able to present them to the public at Canjam. I  am hoping some more experimentation  may get the bass down a bit more.
  
 I has about 10 minutes to spend with Frank Cooter's big amp comparing the 009 and my 007 and  wasn't persuaded to buy the 009. I thought it had a flatter frequency response with a slightly better treble. However the modded O07 had slightly better dynamics, although I doubt that would be true of an unmodded version.


----------



## n3rdling

zxathlon said:


> Got my first Stax: a Lambda Signature and it sounds amazingly good. Super balanced, detailed and lifelike sound.
> Are the modern Stax models even better?
> How is SR507 compared to Lambda Signature?


 
  
 Lambda Sig >> SR-507 IMO.  If you want to upgrade you'll have to go to the Omega line, but that will probably require an additional investment in an amp upgrade.


----------



## zolkis

edstrelow said:


> My sorbothane mods to the 007 bring the midrange up somewhat.  What is still not ideal is that the bass is slightly boomy.  This was the hardest aspect of these phones to get working, however I did at least get them to the point where I was able to present them to the public at Canjam. I  am hoping some more experimentation  may get the bass down a bit more.
> 
> I has about 10 minutes to spend with Frank Cooter's big amp comparing the 009 and my 007 and  wasn't persuaded to buy the 009. I thought it had a flatter frequency response with a slightly better treble. However the modded O07 had slightly better dynamics, although I doubt that would be true of an unmodded version.




I need to try that sorbothane thing . The 009 pads really transformed the 007, as described in the Stax mod thread, more open, better treble. Even with that, it's still more recessed than the 009. I also hear the same things as you, the 007 being more colorful, with better dynamic impression (likely because the added body in low treble) but the 009 is more accurate. It's a matter of taste, really. BTW my big surprise is how my TH900 caught up on the big Stax after extensive mods - similarly colored as the 007, and not as smooth, but boy it has bass like no other.


----------



## electrostatics

Sorry to hijack this thread. I own an SR-507 driven by an SRM1 T1 ECC99 energizer. What I'm looking for is a second headphone (dynamic/planar or electrostatic) that offers more soundstage depth for classical symphonies and something that is also a good genre generalist. I find the 507 a bit lacking in both departments. Heard the Sennheiser HD800 the other day at a meet driven by an OTL amp and although it was pretty nice resolution-wise, I found it a bit cold and analytical. But I couldn't spend too much time with them so it may not be a fair judgement. So I was thinking about the Beyer T1, AKG K712 (didn't like the K812 when I tried them briefly) or any other headphone (maybe an older Lambda?). Unfortunately, the SR-007 and SR-009 are not within my budget at this time.
  
 What secondary can would you recommend to someone who has been using STAX for years?


----------



## kugino

electrostatics said:


> Sorry to hijack this thread. I own an SR-507 driven by an SRM1 T1 ECC99 energizer. What I'm looking for is a second headphone (dynamic/planar or electrostatic) that offers more soundstage depth for classical symphonies and something that is also a good genre generalist. I find the 507 a bit lacking in both departments. Heard the Sennheiser HD800 the other day at a meet driven by an OTL amp and although it was pretty nice resolution-wise, I found it a bit cold and analytical. But I couldn't spend too much time with them so it may not be a fair judgement. So I was thinking about the Beyer T1, AKG K712 (didn't like the K812 when I tried them briefly) or any other headphone (maybe an older Lambda?). Unfortunately, the SR-007 and SR-009 are not within my budget at this time.
> 
> What secondary can would you recommend to someone who has been using STAX for years?


you might want to look into the he-6. properly driven, it's a wonderful headphone, much more preferable to the hd800, IMHO. while dedicated headphone amps that can properly drive the he-6 are ridiculously pricey, a good integrated amp via speaker outs works wonderfully.


----------



## Senes

Well, maybe if your amp and/or DAC is on the dark side the HD800 would become less cold no?


----------



## zolkis

electrostatics said:


> What I'm looking for is a second headphone (dynamic/planar or electrostatic) that offers more soundstage depth for classical symphonies and something that is also a good genre generalist.
> What secondary can would you recommend to someone who has been using STAX for years?


 
  
 So, classical, sound stage depth, good general headphone.
 I also recommend the HE6+EF6. Very nice indeed, natural, extended, effortless dynamics.
 Also, the AKG K812 is very good (like the HD800, but more musical/less cold) and some Beyer (DT990, 880, etc) are pretty good for classical.
 Then, personally I find my modded TH900 even better than the above (using own cup damping, ring dampers, and ear pad filling), and far more practical: I can take it to office, use it on higher volume when the kids are sleeping (the Stax are just leaking too much), and take it on the go (a portable amp and/or DAC can drive it). Obviously this also applies to the TH600.
  
 The Stax 007 and 009 are smoother, more fluid, and more accurate, with less body and bass impact.


----------



## Earspeakers

I don't want one, but anybody know anything about this?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stax-headphone-amp-electrostatic-step-up-transformer-/131490998959?
  
 I like this picture with a big X through the T2 and BHSE, maybe I shouldn't get that BHSE and quit building a T2, I have an alternative! Phew ... lol


----------



## Tachikoma

Its a transformer box for Stax headphones (and also dynamics, I think). Look up eric65's posts.


----------



## Earspeakers

electrostatics said:


> Sorry to hijack this thread. I own an SR-507 driven by an SRM1 T1 ECC99 energizer. What I'm looking for is a second headphone (dynamic/planar or electrostatic) that offers more soundstage depth for classical symphonies and something that is also a good genre generalist. I find the 507 a bit lacking in both departments. ...
> 
> What secondary can would you recommend to someone who has been using STAX for years?


 
  
 My collection is exclusively classical and I can't recommend anything better than Stax. Of course I'm not the world expert and haven't heard everything out there, but I've owned a lot and these are far above everything else to my ears for classical in particular. Other headphones (my opinion) will give you other things you may like, but you'll lose out on detail and ambiance which is essential for classical. Nearly all of that symphonic music is recorded in a concert hall and the Stax brings in the ambiance like no other. 
  
 I'd recommend exploring the Stax lineup if you want more soudstage depth. If you can afford a SR-009 ($2800 from PJ at todays exchange rate) then that will do it. The drivers are farther away (as for all the Omegas) and brought forward/angled backward. This appears to give less of a headphone sound and more soundstage speaker sound - it sounds like you're at the conductor position. You can also try to find some Sigmas which do that to an extreme.


----------



## preproman

earspeakers said:


> My collection is exclusively classical and I can't recommend anything better than Stax. Of course I'm not the world expert and haven't heard everything out there, but I've owned a lot and these are far above everything else to my ears for classical in particular. Other headphones (my opinion) will give you other things you may like, but you'll lose out on detail and ambiance which is essential for classical. Nearly all of that symphonic music is recorded in a concert hall and the Stax brings in the ambiance like no other.
> 
> I'd recommend exploring the Stax lineup if you want more soudstage depth. If you can afford a SR-009 ($2800 from PJ at todays exchange rate) then that will do it. The drivers are farther away (as for all the Omegas) and brought forward/angled backward. This appears to give less of a headphone sound and more soundstage speaker sound - it sounds like you're at the conductor position. You can also try to find some Sigmas which do that to an extreme.


 

 With classical music have you listened to the HD800s?  If so how do you compare them to the 009s


----------



## Earspeakers

preproman said:


> With classical music have you listened to the HD800s?  If so how do you compare them to the 009s


 
  
 No haven't heard those, like I say haven't tried everything. I have heard most of the rest of the Sennheisers, it being my main headphone before Stax. To be truthful I have no interest in even trying the 800, considering that the lowest end Stax (207) is already so far beyond the HD700/HD600 to my ears.


----------



## Michgelsen

I prefer the 207 and 202 to the HD800.


----------



## Tachikoma

electrostatics said:


> Sorry to hijack this thread. I own an SR-507 driven by an SRM1 T1 ECC99 energizer. What I'm looking for is a second headphone (dynamic/planar or electrostatic) that offers more soundstage depth for classical symphonies and something that is also a good genre generalist. I find the 507 a bit lacking in both departments. Heard the Sennheiser HD800 the other day at a meet driven by an OTL amp and although it was pretty nice resolution-wise, I found it a bit cold and analytical. But I couldn't spend too much time with them so it may not be a fair judgement. So I was thinking about the Beyer T1, AKG K712 (didn't like the K812 when I tried them briefly) or any other headphone (maybe an older Lambda?). Unfortunately, the SR-007 and SR-009 are not within my budget at this time.
> 
> What secondary can would you recommend to someone who has been using STAX for years?


 

 I don't think any other Lambda will offer a significantly deeper soundstage, and the O2's soundstage isn't particularly large either. Give Dolby headphones a try, maybe?
  
 I think this configuration works extremely well with my Lambdas: http://www.head-fi.org/t/555263/foobar2000-dolby-headphone-config-comment-discuss


----------



## Senes

Thanks you for the thread Tachikoma.


----------



## zolkis

edstrelow said:


> I has about 10 minutes to spend with Frank Cooter's big amp comparing the 009 and my 007 and  wasn't persuaded to buy the 009. I thought it had a flatter frequency response with a slightly better treble. However the modded O07 had slightly better dynamics, although I doubt that would be true of an unmodded version.


 
  
 I realized this was an important point. I started to value the neutral or reference quality in the SR-009 after spending a lot of time with it. In the first week I thought that my 009 pad mods are final - they are evidently better, however they slightly change the tonality. After already having the 007 which is a slight departure from neutral, I started to crave for neutrality as it is - translated to instruments sounding more true to the timbre. This is mostly for people craving for instrumental and classical music. Jazz lovers for instance may well prefer the 007, but I prefer that too on the 009.
 Remember it is still possible to "merge" them: do my 009 mod, and you get a very slight departure from neutral midrange, with deeper and punchier bass lines, and better defined treble; isn't that most 009 owners are seeking? To get that "musical" touch of the 007? At least for the first week?


----------



## HemiSam

I'm missing my SR-007A's out of the KGST.  What a dip to have a channel imabalance rear its head within a week of receiving them brand new.  They went back and now I'm awaiting a new replacement pair.  Hopefully no more drama with the replacements.  I was really liking what I was hearing out of the 007A's.
  
 So I bought some TH900's to hold me over....screw it.
  
  





  
 HS


----------



## Earspeakers

hemisam said:


> I'm missing my SR-007A's out of the KGST.  What a dip to have a channel imabalance rear its head within a week of receiving them brand new.  They went back and now I'm awaiting a new replacement pair.  Hopefully no more drama with the replacements.  I was really liking what I was hearing out of the 007A's.
> 
> So I bought some TH900's to hold me over....screw it.


 
  
 Sorry to hear that. Sadly I can't listen to anything else, nothing is close enough. Which is why I have multiple ear speakers and amps, gotta have redundant backups


----------



## HemiSam

The Stax are exceptional....no doubt about it.  Especially with the chain I'm using.  I wouldn't go as far as you have, though.  I still very much enjoy my dynamics out of my Woo WA7.  There's a lot of goodness there...
  
 HS


----------



## kugino

so the 717 I had bought used is going back to the owner as it has a L/R channel tracking issue and there was substantial damage to the casing that was only visible once I opened it up. 

but it seems that the only way to bring out the best of my sr007A is to go with a kgsshv, which means at least a $2000+ investment for a one-trick pony (only use with stax ear speakers). I have an he-6 and a th900 that I'd been trying to sell. I might actually sell the sr007A and pick up a ragnarok and stay with dynamic/planars. while I loved the short time I had with the stax setup, I do miss the variety that dynamics and planars bring, and my music tastes lean more toward rock/pop/jazz so I don't find the sr007A to be the best for it. anyway, just a thought...haven't made up my mind yet, though...


----------



## HemiSam

I thought the SR-007A sounded mighty good with rock and bluesy jazz tunes, but that's just me.  They're damn sexy sounding to these ears, but I was listening out of a KGST.  Can't speek to the 717 personally.
  
 HS


----------



## paradoxper

kugino said:


> so the 717 I had bought used is going back to the owner as it has a L/R channel tracking issue and there was substantial damage to the casing that was only visible once I opened it up.
> 
> but it seems that the only way to bring out the best of my sr007A is to go with a kgsshv, which means at least a $2000+ investment for a one-trick pony (only use with stax ear speakers). I have an he-6 and a th900 that I'd been trying to sell. I might actually sell the sr007A and pick up a ragnarok and stay with dynamic/planars. while I loved the short time I had with the stax setup, I do miss the variety that dynamics and planars bring, and my music tastes lean more toward rock/pop/jazz so I don't find the sr007A to be the best for it. anyway, just a thought...haven't made up my mind yet, though...


 
 Just go all in. Or get out!


----------



## Tachikoma

And that's why I've been hunting for a decent transformer solution. The Lundahl LL1689 looks good, decent turns ratio and enough secondary resistance that it won't act like a virtual short for any DC offset, but does anyone know if it has a center tap?


----------



## kugino

paradoxper said:


> Just go all in. Or get out!


haha! yeah, I hear ya. I told myself the same thing!


----------



## astrostar59

Just get it (Stax system that is). I had the SR007 MK2.5s and they were great with Rock and Electronic. The bass is very strong and they are quite a forgiving and warm phone IMO. If you want more of everything then the 009 will do that of course. But the 007 driven well (with a KGSShv) will be a superb setup.


----------



## astrostar59

A different subject, but any of you Stax guys using Audirvana+ version 2.
 I just upgraded from 1.5.1 and it is really nice. I posted my quick take here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/734465/audirvana-plus-2-0/45#post_11548906


----------



## karlgerman

As it goes for switching the Dac setting with highresolution data, oversampling possibilities and some nice EQ sets, those software add ons are nice.
 For Redbook, Itunes is good enough for me, as is bitperfect for playing music and flawless reading data from CD to Apple lossless.
 I spend some money in top rank like Puremusic 1 and 2, Audirvana, Bitperfect, Amarra ...  and my decision is, if you don´t want to manipulate the original data, its not worth the money. Sometimes one want to hear improvement after reading some post´s, reviews, but for me as i was testing software for some years i´m more likely to hear no sound advantage. 
  
 And if the recording is good, there will be no reason for manipulating and if it´s not, there will be no way to convert it to a really higher level.
 Using my Stax equipment with Esoteric D02, Metrum octave and BHSE, KGSS...009..007 made me to this enlightenment.


----------



## aphex27

Any 009 owners who are classical fans here? 
 I need some advice...I'm trying to listen to some pieces with my new 009s but they are almost unbearable with this headphone..
  
 For example, at the moment I'm listening to the 2nd half of the 1st movement of Schubert's 8th (Abbado & Chamber Orchestra of Europe / Deutsche Grammophon) and I'm terrified of every oncoming forte..I have to turn the volume way down..the violins are piercing my brain
  
 Same thing with some Grieg string quartets..
  
 I'm using lossless->McIntosh D100->727A->009..
  
 Is the headphone just not for me or is something wrong with my chain?
  
 Paradoxically, I'm really enjoying some hip-hop tracks..


----------



## NoPants

d100 probably sucks (or is very mundane, from what glances google images gives), general recommendation is to apply feedback mods to the 727


----------



## aphex27

Yeah, my bad, I forgot about the safest way to judge an audio component: glance at it's google images.


----------



## karlgerman

In my opinion Solid state amps sound a little bit to sharp with the 009. I prefer my KGSS with a 007.
 A tube amp should sound smoother without loosing detail.
 I used a *SRM-006tII *for some time and it has a more natural sounding but not enough power for a real bass punch.
 A BHSE fix this problem and was the right choice for my 009.
 Maybe a DAC with upsampling possibilities could remove the harshness of the strings.
  
 Puremusic as a addon software for itunes has upsampling feature which could do the job too.
 I think they have a Demo for tryout.


----------



## Earspeakers

aphex27 said:


> Any 009 owners who are classical fans here?
> I need some advice...I'm trying to listen to some pieces with my new 009s but they are almost unbearable with this headphone..
> 
> For example, at the moment I'm listening to the 2nd half of the 1st movement of Schubert's 8th (Abbado & Chamber Orchestra of Europe / Deutsche Grammophon) and I'm terrified of every oncoming forte..I have to turn the volume way down..the violins are piercing my brain
> ...


 
  
 Odd you'd have that with a Grieg quartet. I listen to the 009 (only classical) with a 323S (SS) and a KGST (SS + tube), both sound sublime. The KGST having more of everything. Maybe it's just an adjustment, did you just get them?


----------



## arnaud

aphex27 said:


> Any 009 owners who are classical fans here?
> I need some advice...I'm trying to listen to some pieces with my new 009s but they are almost unbearable with this headphone..
> 
> For example, at the moment I'm listening to the 2nd half of the 1st movement of Schubert's 8th (Abbado & Chamber Orchestra of Europe / Deutsche Grammophon) and I'm terrified of every oncoming forte..I have to turn the volume way down..the violins are piercing my brain
> ...


 
  
 - I get that when I push the volume too high on my SRM727, which presumably, is a proof the amp falls apart when asked for too much (see InnerFidelity stat amps comparison review posted a couple years back)
 - The other thing I recall from comparing my SRM727 to a friends Electra is the upper mids / high can sound a bit strident on the stock stax amp
 - The other obvious thing is lack of bass control (all relative, I still like the 009 better than many dynamic phones)
 - Still no sign of my BHSE actually shipping but I would be able to get back to you then in regards to how much the amplification is at fault.
 - In regards to potential issue with source / cabling, I will listen to the piece of music you tested, but how loud do you listen at?
  
 cheers,
 arnaud


----------



## NoPants

aphex27 said:


> Yeah, my bad, I forgot about the safest way to judge an audio component: glance at it's google images.


 
 You asked if there was something wrong with your chain and I gave two possibilities
  
 I can cite black magic if it makes you feel better
  
 Or the circuit, but who would do that


----------



## b0bb

aphex27 said:


> Any 009 owners who are classical fans here?
> I need some advice...I'm trying to listen to some pieces with my new 009s but they are almost unbearable with this headphone..
> 
> For example, at the moment I'm listening to the 2nd half of the 1st movement of Schubert's 8th (Abbado & Chamber Orchestra of Europe / Deutsche Grammophon) and I'm terrified of every oncoming forte..I have to turn the volume way down..the violins are piercing my brain
> ...


 
  
 If your source material is below 192kHz/176.4kHz you could might be able resample it up to this to get around some of the internal DSP processing in the D100.
 The D100 uses the ES9016 Sabre DAC, it will resample everything up to 192/176.4 as part of the D/A conversion, so it becomes a matter of who does the resampling, there is no getting around it.
  
 Audirvana on the Mac or Foobar/SOX on the PC will do the resampling, start with a linear phase filter with a 90-95% bandwidth as these have the least objectionable top end. The screeching violins is a symptom of ringing, reducing the output bandwidth will fix that at the expense of some of the width of the soundstage
  
 I use both Audirvana and SOX on my 009/727a combo into a couple of ES9018 Sabre32 DACs, the ES9018 is an incremental development of the ES9016


----------



## aphex27

b0bb said:


> If your source material is below 192kHz/176.4kHz you could might be able resample it up to this to get around some of the internal DSP processing in the D100.
> The D100 uses the ES9016 Sabre DAC, it will resample everything up to the 192/176.4 as part of the D/A conversion to , so it becomes a matter of who does the resampling, there is no getting around it.
> 
> Audirvana on the Mac or Foobar/SOX on the PC will do the resampling, start with a linear phase filter with a 90-95% bandwidth as these have the least objectionable top end. The screeching violins is a symptom of ringing, reducing the output bandwidth will fix that at the expense of some of the width of the soundstage
> ...


 

 Thanks Bobb! Are you sure that the D100 will automatically resample to 32/192? I can't seem to find anything about it in the manual..
  
 I use mainly two ways to listen to music:
  
 one is through Audirvana, which if I understand correctly, sends the actual frequency/bitrate of the track to the DAC (unless one chooses upsampling in the audirvana preferences). So, what you are saying is that if the D100 receives for example a 24/96, it will convert it to 32/192 and that it is preferable instead to upsample inside audirvana? 
  
 second is through Tidal lossless..this is CD quality and because it's a web player, you can manipulate the frequency/bitrate from the audio midi setup. I set it at 16/44.1 because I had read somewhere that it's better if the output matches the track frequency/bitrate. In this case (listening with Tidal), are you suggesting that I set the computer's output at 32/192?
  
 Thanks,
 G


----------



## aphex27

nopants said:


> You asked if there was something wrong with your chain and I gave two possibilities
> 
> I can cite black magic if it makes you feel better
> 
> Or the circuit, but who would do that


 

 Ok, no worries, thanks..


----------



## headinclouds

aphex27,
 Classical music should sound very good indeed with the highly resolving -009.
 Until you can do a comparative test we have to assume the DAC is quite decent and the phones are working correctly. I suspect the amplifier is a weak link as reported by arnaud
  
 Quote:


arnaud said:


> - I get that when I push the volume too high on my SRM727, which presumably, is a proof the amp falls apart when asked for too much (see InnerFidelity stat amps comparison review posted a couple years back)
> - The other thing I recall from comparing my SRM727 to a friends Electra is the upper mids / high can sound a bit strident on the stock stax amp
> - The other obvious thing is lack of bass control (all relative, I still like the 009 better than many dynamic phones)
> - Still no sign of my BHSE actually shipping but I would be able to get back to you then in regards to how much the amplification is at fault.
> ...


 

 In my experience with KGSShv, KGST and an Arcam D33 the results are superb and piano, orchestral forte and opera are as they should be.


----------



## aphex27

arnaud said:


> - I get that when I push the volume too high on my SRM727, which presumably, is a proof the amp falls apart when asked for too much (see InnerFidelity stat amps comparison review posted a couple years back)
> - The other thing I recall from comparing my SRM727 to a friends Electra is the upper mids / high can sound a bit strident on the stock stax amp
> - The other obvious thing is lack of bass control (all relative, I still like the 009 better than many dynamic phones)
> - Still no sign of my BHSE actually shipping but I would be able to get back to you then in regards to how much the amplification is at fault.
> ...


 

 Hi Arnaud,
  
 Thanks for replying! I read all 339 pages of this thread before asking, so I know you know what you're talking about.
 I had the knob at around 12-1 oclock on the 727. 
 This symphony has some pianississimo and some fortississimo passages so one needs to have the volume relatively high in order to appreciate the quiet parts.
 I find that with most music, louder than 11-12 o'clock means very annoying strings, horns and voices. (Quieter than this is amazing though...)
 Would you also do me the favor of testing this track and letting me know if you find the horn section annoying through the 009s?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ99OMlI5cg
  
 (even better if you have Tidal and can hear it in lossless)


----------



## b0bb

aphex27 said:


> Thanks Bobb! Are you sure that the D100 will automatically resample to 32/192? I can't seem to find anything about it in the manual..
> 
> >>The conversion is an integral part of how delta-sigma DACs work, sometimes people react negatively as it is no longer "bit perfect" so most manufacturers keep quiet unless prodded. Resampling has been around almost since day one of Redbook. Philips sold the SAA7220 resampling digital filter with the TDA1541 DAC as set , that took the early CD players to 176.4kHz actual sampling rate within 18months of the launch of the CD way back in 1982.
> 
> ...


 
 My comments inline above.


----------



## aphex27

headinclouds said:


> In my experience with KGSShv, KGST and an Arcam D33 the results are superb and piano, orchestral forte and opera are as they should be.


 

 Thanks! As I said to Arnaud above, I do indeed find the resolution, timbre etc fantastic at low listening levels.
 However a lot of classical pieces have huge dynamic ranges and the loud passages of a piece can become very piercing..
  
 You don't have this problem (at relatively high listening levels) with the above amps?


----------



## aphex27

b0bb said:


> My comments inline above.


 

 Many thanks for your detailed and very helpful explanation!


----------



## headinclouds

aphex27 said:


> Thanks! As I said to Arnaud above, I do indeed find the resolution, timbre etc fantastic at low listening levels.
> However a lot of classical pieces have huge dynamic ranges and the loud passages of a piece can become very piercing..
> 
> You don't have this problem (at relatively high listening levels) with the above amps?


 

 No, as I said the results are superb and as they should be.  I mean this gear creates a reproduction of classical music that can be acceptably convincing. I have enjoyed the real thing on many occasions.
  
 I should add that it is stunning on rock and blues, jazz, etc too.


----------



## aphex27

earspeakers said:


> Odd you'd have that with a Grieg quartet. I listen to the 009 (only classical) with a 323S (SS) and a KGST (SS + tube), both sound sublime. The KGST having more of everything. Maybe it's just an adjustment, did you just get them?


 

 Yeah, I got them last week..maybe my ears need adjustment..my brain does however try to block the sound in high/loud passages..does the KGST mellow it out?
 On a side note, since you like Grieg quartets, I highly recommend this recording from 2L
  
 http://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/schubert-string-quartet-no-14-grieg-string-quartet-op-2?utm_expid=32540977-5.-DEFmKXoQdmXwfDwHzJRUQ.0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.gr%2F
  
 One of the best recordings I've ever heard in terms of sound quality..


----------



## aphex27

headinclouds said:


> No, as I said the results are superb and as they should be.  I mean this gear creates a reproduction of classical music that can be acceptably convincing. I have enjoyed the real thing on many occasions.
> 
> I should add that it is stunning on rock and blues, jazz, etc too.


 

 Understood..actually, I prefer them for more bass oriented music so far..
 I think I have to start looking into these amps then..


----------



## Ali-Pacha

It's a bit difficult to find the right volume with stock SRM-727 + SR-009, especially when listening to music with a broad dynamic range.
 I've had the same problem at the beginning, pushing the volume too far (12 - 1 o'clock), then disturbed by some harshness in the sound.
 Absolutely no problem with my SRM-1/mk2 Pro or SRD-7/SBmk2. Loud is loud, quiet is quiet.
 Because of that (and some bloating bass) I'm considering the mod on my SRM-727II...and I'm also in line for a BHSE (around half the path, my order is "only" one year old 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )
  
 Ali


----------



## Sorrodje

@Ali-Pacha : Did you notice significant results between the SRM1-mk2 and the SRD7 with the Lambda NB ?  
  
 I bought Ali's Lambda NB + his SRD7 and I'm really happy with the result but I wonder if upgrading my speaker amp ( a cheap Tangent EXEO )  is a good option or if I should better save money for a SRM1/MkII (or ideally a SRM-T1)


----------



## negura

aphex27 said:


> Thanks! As I said to Arnaud above, I do indeed find the resolution, timbre etc fantastic at low listening levels.
> However a lot of classical pieces have huge dynamic ranges and the loud passages of a piece can become very piercing..
> 
> You don't have this problem (at relatively high listening levels) with the above amps?


 
  
 No such thing for me with either of the KGSSHV or KGST and 009s either. I do not believe either of these amps can be the cause of this and nor should they have to do something about it. Or Stax amps for the matter.
  
 When I read your comments I went to look straight off the bat at the DAC used... As it turns out the McIntosh D100 appears to use a Sabre chip.
  
 Some comments here:
  
*Fifth Place: McIntosh D100*

 DAC Utilized: Sabre ES9016
  
 http://www.audioaficionado.org/cd-players-digital-music-servers/18874-dac-shootout-mcintosh-mcd1100-mda1000-d100-amr-dp-777-music-hall-dac25-3-a.html
  
 But on to the sound quality… Surprisingly enough – it did attempt to mimic the sound characteristics of the MCD1100. However, the presentation was still sub-par compared to the competition. It appeared bright and tinny. As one listener put it: “it’s like glass shattering.”


----------



## aphex27

yeah, I've read that whole thread..it's claims have been taken down several times, with many users thinking that there was something wrong with the specific unit.
  
 A more reliable review is here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/698941/review-the-stunning-mcintosh-d100


----------



## aphex27

ali-pacha said:


> It's a bit difficult to find the right volume with stock SRM-727 + SR-009, especially when listening to music with a broad dynamic range.
> I've had the same problem at the beginning, pushing the volume too far (12 - 1 o'clock), then disturbed by some harshness in the sound.
> Absolutely no problem with my SRM-1/mk2 Pro or SRD-7/SBmk2. Loud is loud, quiet is quiet.
> Because of that (and some bloating bass) I'm considering the mod on my SRM-727II...and I'm also in line for a BHSE (around half the path, my order is "only" one year old
> ...


 

 Ali, can you let me know who does the 727 mod?
  
 Thanks,
 G


----------



## Ali-Pacha

sorrodje said:


> @Ali-Pacha : Did you notice significant results between the SRM1-mk2 and the SRD7 with the Lambda NB ?
> 
> I bought Ali's Lambda NB + his SRD7 and I'm really happy with the result but I wonder if upgrading my speaker amp ( a cheap Tangent EXEO )  is a good option or if I should better save money for a SRM1/MkII (or ideally a SRM-T1)


 

 SRM-1/mk2 : more extension, more details, larger soundstage.
 SRD7 : more low mids, more "fun" with rock/pop/electro (simpler sound, more forgiving)
  
 Ali


----------



## Ali-Pacha

aphex27 said:


> Ali, can you let me know who does the 727 mod?
> 
> Thanks,
> G


 

 Anyone with some soldering skills and a multimeter to adjust offset / balance.

 Ali


----------



## Earspeakers

So I've been enjoying a pair of Sigmas recently. I found a pair of broken Sigma normals (from a fellow member, though listed on eBay) and had them professionally repaired with NOS Professional Lambda drivers, along with pads, cable and headband. 
  
 They're quite interesting. I was expecting exceptional imaging but that's not at all what I'm experiencing. I believe the 009's image better than the Sigmas. Instead it gives a, well _softening_ isn't the right word but something like that, to the sound. It does calm the music down a bit, as speakers do in a room, or as occurs in a concert hall with a performer some distance from you. Other Stax seem to attempt to do this. The Nova which loses detail and becomes fuzzy (but does gain softness.) The 007 mk 1 and mk 2, which becomes flabby and too soft - to my ears at least. None of them stay as true to Stax as do these IMO, in addition to calming them down, without gaining much of anything bad. 
  
 Quite nice, the 009 is still king in my book, but despite looking absolutely ridiculous these are up there, for when you just want to relax and enjoy some good music.


----------



## David1961

Deleted.


----------



## Earspeakers

david1961 said:


> Deleted.


 

 I meant that the Sigma looks absolutely ridiculous, not the 009 which is the best looking of the Stax IMO


----------



## David1961

earspeakers said:


> david1961 said:
> 
> 
> > Deleted.
> ...




That's why I deleted my post because I was unsure.


----------



## edstrelow

Quote: 





earspeakers said:


> So I've been enjoying a pair of Sigmas recently. I found a pair of broken Sigma normals (from a fellow member, though listed on eBay) and had them professionally repaired with NOS Professional Lambda drivers, along with pads, cable and headband.
> 
> They're quite interesting. I was expecting exceptional imaging but that's not at all what I'm experiencing. I believe the 009's image better than the Sigmas. Instead it gives a, well _softening_ isn't the right word but something like that, to the sound. It does calm the music down a bit, as speakers do in a room, or as occurs in a concert hall with a performer some distance from you. Other Stax seem to attempt to do this. The Nova which loses detail and becomes fuzzy (but does gain softness.) The 007 mk 1 and mk 2, which becomes flabby and too soft - to my ears at least. None of them stay as true to Stax as do these IMO, in addition to calming them down, without gaining much of anything bad.
> 
> Quite nice, the 009 is still king in my book, but despite looking absolutely ridiculous these are up there, for when you just want to relax and enjoy some good music.


 
  
 I like the openness of sound of the Sigma high bias phones. They also sound a lot cleaner and dynamic with sorbothane damping.  As regards their looks, back in the day they were big kooky boxes. However, a lot on new phones are as big or bigger,  eg the 009's and many of the planars.  This is a shot I took of my Sigma/404 being used at the recent Canjam.  I don't think they look that bad.  Also see an original Stax poster.


----------



## Jones Bob

They look like Borg.


----------



## HemiSam

LMAO...they do like kind of wonky.
  
 I really dug the SR-007A's.  I'm with Birgir on them.  Perhaps they've made some recent changes...I would not call them flabby down low when amped properly.  The do dig deep and are pretty damn visceral for e-stats.
  
 HS


----------



## Earspeakers

edstrelow said:


> This is a shot I took of my Sigma/404 being used at the recent Canjam.  I don't think they look that bad.  Also see an original Stax poster.


 
  
 I think the picture proves my point, big old box cars, lol ... I should say though, I don't care what they look like, I'd use them regardless. 
  
 The poster is interesting - "Spatial Reality'. Again I'm not hearing tremendous imaging. I just switched back to the 009's which do it better for me at least.
  


hemisam said:


> I really dug the SR-007A's.  I'm with Birgir on them.  Perhaps they've made some recent changes...I would not call them flabby down low when amped properly.  The do dig deep and are pretty damn visceral for e-stats.


 
  
 There appears to be two camps, those who prefer 007 and those who prefer 009. The 007's do 'dig deep' as you say, but is sounds artificial to my ears. It also might be a music preference, I'm a classical only listener and perhaps they do better with popular music. I like them all though and still enjoy my 007's.


----------



## arnaud

aphex27 said:


> Hi Arnaud,
> 
> Thanks for replying! I read all 339 pages of this thread before asking, so I know you know what you're talking about.
> I had the knob at around 12-1 oclock on the 727.
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for the link to the interesting music references .
  
 I actually listened to:
 1. Crieg's String quartet (Qobuz CD quality)
 2. The Shubert 8th 1st mouvement (Qobuz CD quality)
 3. The you tube video you posted
  
 - While I do not find any of these recordings strident, I did lower the volume after initially trying at around 11AM-12PM. 
 - My typical listening level is 9AM on this amp and any recording typically sounds good in that position.
  
 - I am not sure this is an increase in distortion, some kind of dynamic compression or just the voicing of the phone being targeted towards moderate listening, but basically I don't enjoy pushing the volume excessively.
 - I agree it is problematic for some wide dynamic range orchestral pieces like 2.
 - As for 3, the bass is borderline loose / bloomy but I've had this thing happening several times over since the arrival of the D1 dac (a bass monster it would seem  ).
 - I am hoping beefing up the amplification will clear all these issues as has been reported by other members...
  
 Conclusion: I'd look into the DAC direction if you notice some shrillness even at moderate volumes, otherwise I would encourage you to try a different amp (see Mjolnir Audio's website and Headinclouds builds). There are many options to choose from at all prices among the DYI builders. For me the wait for the BHSE is getting excruciating, I would have bought a KGSSHV from headinclouds or spritzer if it had been available at the time I placed my order for the BHSE and called it a day. Having waiting 30 months now, it would be silly to cancel the order though .
  
 cheers,
 arnaud


----------



## edstrelow

earspeakers said:


> I think the picture proves my point, big old box cars, lol ... I should say though, I don't care what they look like, I'd use them regardless.
> 
> The poster is interesting - "Spatial Reality'. Again I'm not hearing tremendous imaging. I just switched back to the 009's which do it better for me at least.
> 
> ...


 
 The point of the Sigma is to get the driver ahead of the ear so that the sound comes from the front of the head , rather than from the side as happens with other phones.  With the driver at the front, you will get reflections from the pinna similar to what you would get from a sound source in front of you. This was what Stax was getting at with the term "spatial reality." I don't find it fully compelling, but now and again I think my speakers are on when I am only wearing the Sigmas. Generally though I do get a good sensation of openness of the sound with the Sigmas. When I demonstrated the Sigmas at Canjam a few people described it as a "big" sound, which I think meant that they perceived the sound as coming from outside the head rather than inside the head.
  
 Imaging is a different matter. This refers to the positioning of sound sources from left to right. This requires firstly some decent channel separation, i.e. if the left and right channel are mixed there is reduced stereo because there is not enough difference between the channels. In the extreme case where the 2 channels have the same signal, you would get no imaging because it would be monaural.. I suspect that the reason the 009 and even the 007 give superior imaging is that the two drivers are fairly flat and very well matched, i.e. either  the manufacturing process gives very little variation in frequency response from one driver to another, and/or Stax tests the drivers and chooses those that have most similar responses.  Thus there is little variation in directional cues caused by the drivers (a sort of directional noise) and you get a better image. However this costs time and work to achieve and is one of the factors in the high cost of these phones.


----------



## Earspeakers

edstrelow said:


> The point of the Sigma is to get the driver ahead of the ear ...


 
  
 Yes I understand the mechanics thanks. The positioning of the drivers is similar as for speakers obviously, with the important exception that there's no spatial mixing between left and right channels. In other words the right channel isn't being heard by the left and vice versa, as they are with speakers, so the two channels are isolated. Recording and mixing is designed so that on reproduction this mixing does occur, and we get a sense of positioning of the musicians. Of course a recording can be mixed for headphones, as in the Dr Chesky's "Binaural Technologies" (which I guess is Binaural recording using a dummy head such as the Neumann KU 100)
  
 At any rate, regardless of what Stax may have intended (Spatial Reality implies imaging to me), it seems they have a hybrid, or something new depending on how you look at it. Placed somewhat like speakers in front but with isolation between channels, so neither normal headphones nor speakers. I think you put your finger on it for me ...
  


> a few people described it as a "big" sound, which I think meant that they perceived the sound as coming from outside the head rather than inside the head.


 
  
 That's what it sounds like, more out of the head, but the imaging sounds wrong, so it's kind of big and diffuse. Regardless I like 'em


----------



## aphex27

arnaud said:


> Thank you for the link to the interesting music references .
> 
> I actually listened to:
> 1. Crieg's String quartet (Qobuz CD quality)
> ...


 

 Glad you liked them Arnaud 
  
 Agreed about 9AM..everything sounds great there but unfortunately that's too low for me..I need it a bit higher in order to get immersed in the music..
  
 Regarding the DAC, I have to admit that I'm a sceptic..I don't think I would ever be able to tell DACs apart in blind tests..
 I think I'm going to buy the new Hifiman headphones first and then explore the amplifier options for the 009 if I'm not happy with them..
 I have to say though that I'm slowly falling in love with the 009s..I had a 10-hour session yesterday..I couldn't take them off my head
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 In any case, many thanks for the advice and good luck with the wait! (I really hope it's worth it!)


----------



## edstrelow

earspeakers said:


> Yes I understand the mechanics thanks. The positioning of the drivers is similar as for speakers obviously, with the important exception that there's no spatial mixing between left and right channels. In other words the right channel isn't being heard by the left and vice versa, as they are with speakers, so the two channels are isolated. Recording and mixing is designed so that on reproduction this mixing does occur, and we get a sense of positioning of the musicians. Of course a recording can be mixed for headphones, as in the Dr Chesky's "Binaural Technologies" (which I guess is Binaural recording using a dummy head such as the Neumann KU 100)
> 
> At any rate, regardless of what Stax may have intended (Spatial Reality implies imaging to me), it seems they have a hybrid, or something new depending on how you look at it. Placed somewhat like speakers in front but with isolation between channels, so neither normal headphones nor speakers. I think you put your finger on it for me ...
> 
> ...


 
 Re: the hybrid that's why Stax called them "earspeakers."
  
 Over the last 2 years as I have been experimenting with sorbothane damping , my preferences in headphones have changed, generally in favor of whatever phone I had most recently got a successful damping arrangement.  Now that all of my stable is damped I am back where I was previously in preferences: the 007A for orchestral/ instrumental and the Sigma/404 for vocal although the advantages of either phone are less clear-cut now and each does everything better.


----------



## gilency

As far as DAC's I am also a sceptic. Above a certain amount, I don't believe there is a whole lot of a difference unless you have the mythical golden ears.


----------



## edstrelow

gilency said:


> As far as DAC's I am also a sceptic. Above a certain amount, I don't believe there is a whole lot of a difference unless you have the mythical golden ears.


 
 Ok but what is that "certain amount.?"
  
 I think there are still a lot of problems with digital audio and there remain times when my trusty turntable is preferable (except for clicks, pops scratches, surface noise and the like, at least for  speakers.   My own experience was that merely upgrading my cd transport from an old belt driven CEC model, to Woo's cd transport made  a big difference to the sound , without even changing any of my DAC's.  I don't know what Woo did but it showed that even digital read-out is a problem and any dac which could potentially get around that sort of problem could possibly be an improvement.  I liked the Woo so much that I went ou and bought another one right away.
  
 As regards DACs, I am using a couple of old Musical Fidelity XDAC's V3 with outboard power supplies and having listened to some other top set-ups at the recent Canjam, see no need to upgrade them.


----------



## troymadison

Stax SR-507 is my favorite lambda so far after trying the SR-404, SR-407, SR-303 and Nova Basic. I like it when an electrostatic headphone just happens to be really bassy.


----------



## Earspeakers

troymadison said:


> Stax SR-507 is my favorite lambda so far after trying the SR-404, SR-407, SR-303 and Nova Basic. I like it when an electrostatic headphone just happens to be really bassy.


 

 Yeah the recent production Lambdas are nice and heavy. I happen to prefer the 404/404LE for my tastes, more refinement in some fashion. The Nova Signature is heavy too, not with the weight of the modern ones, but more wooly. A nice in between is the NOS Lambda pro converted Sigma I have.


----------



## Lan647

The Lambda Signature is the finest Lambda I've personally heard.


----------



## JustinBieber

I'm going to change the tubes in my T1s. Mine has some no name Americans, which some said may be the source of brightness/etch in my Lambdas.
  
 I have the choice of a Japnese ITT 6CG7 short or long plate. Also, a Raytheon 6CG7 pair but they are almost double the price of the ITTs. Has anyone had experience with these? 
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Tachikoma

Erm, nah, the Lambda's etch isn't going to be solved by a tuberoll. Try the sorbothane mods, or hell, wrapping some cling film around the sides of the drivers if you're really cheap.
  
 The Japanese (short plate) 6CG7s seem very similar to each other, construction wise. They might all be the same tube, the Raytheon and the normally recommended Toshibas look really similar to each other.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

I picked up a b version of the srm1-mk2 professional amp. I'd like to restore it to top performing condition. I was going to replace the caps resistors and diodes to start. Is there anything else I can do to this amp to boost its performance? Also, is there a parts list anywhere?


----------



## Michgelsen

justinbieber said:


> I'm going to change the tubes in my T1s. Mine has some no name Americans, which some said may be the source of brightness/etch in my Lambdas.
> 
> I have the choice of a Japnese ITT 6CG7 short or long plate. Also, a Raytheon 6CG7 pair but they are almost double the price of the ITTs. Has anyone had experience with these?
> 
> Thank you.


 
  
 Instructions for adjusting the bias after a tube change can be found here and here.


----------



## HemiSam

My replacement SR-007A's finally showed up after having to return the last pair for a channel imbalance.  I need to spend more time with them to get re-acclimated.  It's good to have them back and plugged into the KGST where they belong.
  
 Was listening to some Grant Green again last night....nice
  

  
 HS


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Picked up this srm1-mk2 professional unit.  No idea if it works or not.  I'm told the power light comes on.  planning on doing a full restore to put it in tip top shape.  Anyone have a parts list for this model?  That sure would speed up the process.  Also, any known upgrades?
  
 I was going to replace the caps, resistors and diodes.  anything else I should upgrade?  I replaced the balance and offset pots on my last restore that was much older.  is that overkill?  Any advice greatly appreciated.


----------



## rgs9200m

What's this about revised 727 and 007t amps?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/766651/2015-tokyo-fujiya-avic-spring-headphone-festival-report#post_11606743
 from Arnaud:
  
 Last stop was *Stax,* having my traditional chit chat with Sasaki-san (director of sales):
 - Nothing new at the show but we may expect something at the fall festival in the entry level (portable gear)
 - No news about the T2 return but the project isn't completely canned at least
 - We may see a refresh of the existing driver line, in particular the SRM727 and / or SRM007t2
 - About the rumour in regards to changes to the SR007 and SR009: there's no such thing! (what do you expect them to say  ).
 - About the pads: there might have been alterations to the foam material but that is admittedly out of Stax control / something that sometimes happens at the supplier.
 - Also sasaki-san commented that all their pads are made by hand by a small artisan. No two pads are identical to the others so these manufacturing variations may partly explain differences in sound perceived by some with some recent batches.
 - Conclusion: Stax remains Stax, it's business as usual there .


----------



## edstrelow

rgs9200m said:


> What's this about revised 727 and 007t amps?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/766651/2015-tokyo-fujiya-avic-spring-headphone-festival-report#post_11606743
> from Arnaud:
> ...


 
 My guess is that the reported changes in sound quality in the 007 and 009 are explained by the changes in pads and foam material noted. zolkis has reported that he was able to change the sound quality of these two phones this way.
 I also suspect that all, or a large part of the change is due to better damping of mechanical resonance distortion by the different foam materials. In my own reports even, sticking small amounts of sorbothane, a material designed specifically for mechanical damping, to earcups was able to markedly change the sound signature, generally for the better.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

This thread is sleeping. Let's go for some SR-X/mk3 pro love :
  

  
 Got rid of a small dust on the mylar within the left driver (there initially was some slight buzzing sometimes when bias comes in), new pads arrived today from audiocubes and in place.
 They are now what I call "mint". Maybe the coolest looking headphones I have, and great sound too.
 Just my 2 cents of happiness for today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## NoPants

SR307 = Gamma Pro < Lamda Sig < HE60 < 009 = Sigma Pro ~= 007mk2  < 007mk1


----------



## edstrelow

ali-pacha said:


> This thread is sleeping. Let's go for some SR-X/mk3 pro love :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Tachikoma

nopants said:


> SR307 = Gamma Pro < Lamda Sig < HE60 < 009 = Sigma Pro ~= 007mk2  < 007mk1


 

 I don't think there's a huge difference in performance between the left and right ends of that chart, and I own both the GP and 007mk1. The Sigmas are truly polarising, however.


----------



## cucera

My current Stax Rating on my BHSE or KGSSHV except the normal Bias can.

1) Stax SR007 MK1 (SN701xx) Carbon Box and one of the first ever imported to EU
2) Stax SR-007 MK1 (SZ1xxx) 
2) Stax SR-009 
3) Stax SR-007 MK2 (SN SZ2xxx) 
3) Stax SR-X MK3 pro 
4) Stax 4070 
4) Stax Sigma Pro 
5) Stax Lambda Signature with 507 Leather Pads 
6) Stax SR-003 MK2 
6) Stax SR-003 MK1
6) Stax Lambda pro 
6) Stax Lambda Nova Basic 
7) Stax SR202 
8) Stax SR-Gamma pro
8) Stax Lambda NB
9) Stax SR-303
10) Stax SR-507


----------



## Ali-Pacha

For those I own, my ranking for all rounders :
 1) SR-009
 2) SR-Gamma Pro and SR-Lambda NB
 3) SR-X/mk3 Pro and SR-5
 4) SR-5/NB
  
 Others are specialty heaphones to me :
 - SR-007mk1 are distant / laid back. Great details, great bass, great soundstage, but music is behind a tainted glass and not as engaging as all rounders
 - SR-Sigma Pro are ambient and loudness kings. Kind of mushy compared to SR-007mk1, but with more impact
 - SR-Lambda Signature are crystal clear to bright, masters of air but without mercy for bad recordings. Avoid them when you have a headache

 Ali


----------



## NoPants

tachikoma said:


> I don't think there's a huge difference in performance between the left and right ends of that chart, and I own both the GP and 007mk1. The Sigmas are truly polarising, however.


 
  
 It seems it's not half as polarizing as the 007/009. Those mids are no joke though


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Seems that I will not have the time right now to start my recap on the srm1mk2.  I would however like to test the amp to see if its working.  the dc offset and balance dial in without a problem.  Can I assume then that it is safe to plug in my NB lambdas?


----------



## NoPants

if dc offset, balance, bias all check out then that's the the dc conditions are- you can't damage the headphones


----------



## Keithpgdrb

balance and offset are fine on the pro socket. I forgot I need to check the normal socket still.  the bias is a separate check?  how is this done?


----------



## NoPants

Measure the voltage between bias and ground, before whatever output resistor there is.
  
 At the jack it should be less than 230V if it also comes out of a 4.7M resistor.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

nopants said:


> Measure the voltage between bias and ground, before whatever output resistor there is.
> 
> At the jack it should be less than 230V if it also comes out of a 4.7M resistor.


 

 hmm.  looks like I need to do the restore.  Normal bias pin reads 148V, pro bias pin reads about 332V.  those should be about 230V/580V yes?


----------



## arnaud

I don't think you'll get the full bias voltage reading at the phone jack because of the voltmeter used. Someone technically capable should explain but, in practice, it's more like 360V read at the pro bias socket.


----------



## NoPants

I said before the jack/ before the resistor- the voltage at the jack is lower because the multimeter's probe resistance is dragging it down. The reading becomes load dependent. Someone else might have a more accurate way to measure but I don't know how Stax implements their bias. Everything I have on hand is the spritzer/gilmore/headamp implementation, which might be different. At the very least you can't damage your headphones by running them at too low a bias. 
  
 long story short you might be and probably are fine, but someone who has more experience with actual stax equipment should chime in. I can't measure anything atm
  
 google-
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/447304/stax-srm-1-mk-2-pro-bias-voltages-only-measuring-350v


----------



## cucera

keithpgdrb said:


> hmm.  looks like I need to do the restore.  Normal bias pin reads 148V, pro bias pin reads about 332V.  those should be about 230V/580V yes?




Quite normal outcome as the standard meter has an impedance (~6MOhm in this case) that is too low compared to the Output resistor. You build a voltage divider with the meter and the protection resistor. To be sure measure with an Voltmeter with >100MOhm or simply before the 4.7M resistor.


----------



## wink

> hmm.  looks like I need to do the restore.  Normal bias pin reads 148V, pro bias pin reads about 332V.


 
 That looks good.  Plug in the phones and ENJOY.....


----------



## crazychile

I currently have a pair of Koss ESP-950 that I use with the stock energizer. My plan has been to move up to a Stax or other electrostatic amplifier, like the latest Srm-727, and then potentially upgrade the Koss' to SR-007s when budget allows. But the more I read these threads the more I get confused. The SRM-727 seems to be good but best with mods, and Ive read that the recent production '007s aren't as good as the originals.

I want to buy new, don't have the time or desire for a DIY project, and the KGST availability is dependent on someone to build one, has options that need to be decided...etc. I also don't want to spend more than 2.5-3k For both when I finally get done. What should I be looking at for my next 'stat upgrade path?

thanks in advance...


----------



## Keithpgdrb

crazychile said:


> I currently have a pair of Koss ESP-950 that I use with the stock energizer. My plan has been to move up to a Stax or other electrostatic amplifier, like the latest Srm-727, and then potentially upgrade the Koss' to SR-007s when budget allows. But the more I read these threads the more I get confused. The SRM-727 seems to be good but best with mods, and Ive read that the recent production '007s aren't as good as the originals.
> 
> I want to buy new, don't have the time or desire for a DIY project, and the KGST availability is dependent on someone to build one, has options that need to be decided...etc. I also don't want to spend more than 2.5-3k For both when I finally get done. What should I be looking at for my next 'stat upgrade path?
> 
> thanks in advance...


 

 buy one of these amps.
  
 http://mjolnir-audio.com
  
 You won't find a better deal for the quality.  hold on to the koss.


----------



## edstrelow

The older Stax 717 is very good and doesn't need modding. They are a bit hard to find but seem to sell for about $1K. As regards the 007 , check out my thread on the use of sorbothane. My modded 007 beats the 009.


----------



## Scottsmrnyc

Well, I only heard them on one occassion; that being the Munich High End Audio Show that just pasted. But I was impressed with the SR- 507s. They are very reasonably priced. I did an informal AB test between the SR 007s, SR009s and the SR507s and I actually prefered the 507s. I am now awaiting the delivery of the 507s and will keep you posted on any additional incites. All the best.


----------



## crazychile

keithpgdrb said:


> buy one of these amps.
> 
> http://mjolnir-audio.com
> 
> You won't find a better deal for the quality.  hold on to the koss.


 

 Thanks, I need to bookmark that site as I can never find it using a Google search.
 Looks like Spritzer has one amp on his site right now that fits my price range. And I do like tubes....


----------



## David1961

crazychile said:


> keithpgdrb said:
> 
> 
> > buy one of these amps.
> ...




I haven't heard any of Birgir's stats amps, but I do have the Dynalo mk1 built by him which drives my HD-600's extremely well, I also think it looks very good a feels very well built.


----------



## allets

My last deal for Stax fell through but I'm still interested in a setup. As a fan of something like the HD600, which setup would appeal to me the most? 507 looks good. They will be connected to a Marantz CD6005. Cheers!

Edit: Apologies, it seems this should have been asked in The Entry Level Stax thread.


----------



## AudioCats

Can anyone give a quick review of how the 307 (or 407) sound vs. SR-303? ( or a link to such review)
  
 I have tried various searches and could only find indirect comparisons.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thanks!


----------



## HemiSam

audiocats said:


> Can anyone give a quick review of how the 307 (or 407) sound vs. SR-303? ( or a link to such review)
> 
> I have tried various searches and could only find indirect comparisons.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Check out the entry level Stax thread.
  
 HS


----------



## AudioCats

no direct comparison there either.
  
  
  
  
 one question about the 507 leather pads: will they fit 303? I have read that they will fit 407 which is the same size as 307 which then is the same size as 303. Have anybody tried 507 pads on 303 before? any good/bad results?


----------



## Don Quichotte

I remember reading several times about such "transplants", so yes, SR-507 pads would certainly fit the SR-303 headphones (and people reported improved sound). I think all the Lambda's have interchangeable pads.


----------



## Lan647

Been using the 009 for quite a while now with a modified SRM-006TS (superior driver- and output capacitors resulting in far more capable driving authority and improved refinement) and gotta say, while it sounds really great and I've spent many nights enjoying the heck out of the sound, I still find the O2 mk1s to be more up my ally. The 009 is as clear and resolving as I've ever heard a headphone to be but it doesn't put you "there" in the same magical way an O2 can do with a fine and powerful amplifier. Even with my finest recordings, the SR-009 never quite nails the organic live-feel of the O2. It just sounds a tad sterile. And maybe a tad pronounced in the upper mids, which adds a forwardness to the sound that I find unnatural. 
  
 That being said, I can see how one would prefer the 009. Especially if you're a treble person. It's awesomely detailed without fatigue and the amount of texture it can dig out compared to even the best of dynamic cans (particularly in the bass) can be breathtaking at times. If one wants the very best in the headphone world, I can think of no headphone that matches the 007 or 009.

 And the build is just exquisite, what a beautiful product.


----------



## kazcou

I have a pair of SR-507 pad on my old lambda pro and they perfectly fit on it and Lambda pro are 100% compatible with SR-203/204/207/303/304/307 ...
 The real difference is the SR-507 pad use real leather and SR-203...307 synthetic one.
  
 I will go for  the real leather one, because if you take care,  they will last 10 or 20 years.
  
 Is there any sound difference, I would say no


----------



## Keithpgdrb

I'm recapping my srm1-mk2 professional.  are these caps specs ok for this?  the panasonics I wanted are not available.  They seem almost identical but for the ripple current.  and I have no idea what that is.
  
 http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/LGU2G221MELA/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22TrbYqu733Ay8JPh1A%252boc8w%3d


----------



## kazcou

you can read this http://www.head-fi.org/t/648596/stax-srm-1-mk2-re-cap
  
 or only this


spritzer said:


> You can safely use 220uf/400V caps in this amp, it is what Stax would put in there if they were doing the refurb (only value they have in stock).  For the low voltage caps I'd use Panasonic FM or FC series.  Not a big difference but these caps have excellent specs.


----------



## funkforfood

Hi all!
 I'm in trouble with my SRM-3, any chance to get the schematic?
 Thanks!


----------



## Keithpgdrb

kazcou said:


> you can read this http://www.head-fi.org/t/648596/stax-srm-1-mk2-re-cap
> 
> or only this


 

 I read all that already.  the caps spritzer recommended are not available anymore.  the one I pointed to seems to be the same, but I don't know if the differences matter or not.


----------



## NoPants

It won't matter for your purposes


----------



## kazcou

yes, you can use http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/LGU2G221MELA/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22TrbYqu733Ay8JPh1A%252boc8w%3d


----------



## AudioCats

funkforfood said:


> Hi all!
> I'm in trouble with my SRM-3, any chance to get the schematic?
> Thanks!


 

 I am interested in such schematic as well ( I have the Xh and supposedly the amp section is the same as SRM-3's)


----------



## AudioCats

keithpgdrb said:


> I'm recapping my srm1-mk2 professional.  are these caps specs ok for this?  the panasonics I wanted are not available.  They seem almost identical but for the ripple current.  and I have no idea what that is.
> 
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/LGU2G221MELA/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22TrbYqu733Ay8JPh1A%252boc8w%3d


 

 what panasonic do you want? Is _ this_ good enough? on sale, $3 a pop, at partsconnexion. I just ordered one for recapping my SRM-1/MK2 (using it in the pre-filter position, the middle cap; I have JJ's for the +/- rails)


----------



## funkforfood

audiocats said:


> I am interested in such schematic as well ( I have the Xh and supposedly the amp section is the same as SRM-3's)


 
 What kind of issue do you have on your Xh?


----------



## AudioCats

my Xh is fine. But it will be easier to do mods with a schematic.


----------



## HemiSam

lan647 said:


> Been using the 009 for quite a while now with a modified SRM-006TS (superior driver- and output capacitors resulting in far more capable driving authority and improved refinement) and gotta say, while it sounds really great and I've spent many nights enjoying the heck out of the sound, I still find the O2 mk1s to be more up my ally. The 009 is as clear and resolving as I've ever heard a headphone to be but it doesn't put you "there" in the same magical way an O2 can do with a fine and powerful amplifier. Even with my finest recordings, the SR-009 never quite nails the organic live-feel of the O2. It just sounds a tad sterile. And maybe a tad pronounced in the upper mids, which adds a forwardness to the sound that I find unnatural.
> 
> That being said, I can see how one would prefer the 009. Especially if you're a treble person. It's awesomely detailed without fatigue and the amount of texture it can dig out compared to even the best of dynamic cans (particularly in the bass) can be breathtaking at times. If one wants the very best in the headphone world, I can think of no headphone that matches the 007 or 009.
> 
> And the build is just exquisite, what a beautiful product.


 
  
 I have been listenting to my 007A's < KGST < ygg.  Great stuff, but all this talk of the MkI's had me wondering and it got the better of me.  I hope to have a pair of the highly lauded cans in hand in a few weeks.  Will be intersting to see if I can hear much difference.  
  
 I have held back on buying the 009's for fear they're a bit too much for my ears up top and not enough down low.  I expect I'll own a pair of them too before long at this rate.  It's like crack...
  
  
 HS


----------



## Earspeakers

hemisam said:


> I have been listenting to my 007A's < KGST < ygg.  Great stuff, but all this talk of the MkI's had me wondering and it got the better of me.  I hope to have a pair of the highly lauded cans in hand in a few weeks.  Will be intersting to see if I can hear much difference.


 
  
 I have a pair of the mkI's (early carbon box). I like them - I like every Stax I've heard, but I don't think they deserve the reputation they have. The reason is, to my ears at least, they sound the most like dynamic headphones that I've heard, and the least like the rest of the Stax (except the 4070 which is truly in a place by itself). If true, maybe that's why people like it. 
  
  


> I have held back on buying the 009's for fear they're a bit too much for my ears up top and not enough down low.  I expect I'll own a pair of them too before long at this rate.


 
  
 If I had to choose one I'd take the 009. Listening to it right now on a KGST, just replaced a Sigma with NOS Pro drivers I listened to earlier today. Clarity and presence to die for. 
  


> It's like crack...


 
  
 Yup


----------



## HemiSam

I like my TH900 cans out of my Woo WA7 fed by the ygg....a lot.  I'd put them right there with the 007A's albeit they're a bit more forward up top and a bit more visceral down low but that's cool by me.  Not a startling difference between the two IMO, but they are different.
  
 I think you're way more into the uppers and mids that I am reading your many posts.  I would hang on to my ESP-950's and the Koss to Stax cable if my tastes ran in that direction.  Not my thing personally, but hey...that's what makes the world go round.  Different strokes.
  
 HS


----------



## AudioCats

hemisam said:


> ..
> ..
> It's like crack...
> 
> ...


 
 no it is not.
 It is not exactly some kind of consumable, you get to resell it and get a large % of $$ back, more like an investment ... it is like, err, whatchamacallit, get to have your cake and eat it as well, best of many worlds! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 There are many pairs of 009 on ebay, some are only $3200 shipped from Japan, one of them probably have your name engraved on it in invisible gold ink... hurry and get it while the $ is strong.....
  
 ( blatantly enabling)


----------



## HemiSam

audiocats said:


> no it is not.
> It is not exactly some kind of consumable, you get to resell it and get a large % of $$ back, more like an investment ... it is like, err, whatchamacallit, get to have your cake and eat it as well, best of many worlds!
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 LMAO...I'm glad I'm enjoying a cocktail or I might not have had a clue what you posted 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I could have picked up a new pair for less than that earlier this week with the FX rate being what it was.  I scored a mint MkI first.  
  
 As for this stuff being an investment, that really made me chuckle.  So are my race cars.......belly laugh ensues.
  
 HS


----------



## wink

Get the SR-009's     
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 [Blatantly shilling]
  
 The true Stax afficionado should have both the SR007 Mk1 and SR009.
and the Omega and 4070


----------



## AnakChan

Last Friday, I went to Stax office (they're shifting end of the month!!) to pick up spare headbands for (Arnaud's &) my SR-009 & on the way home dropped by Arnaud's. I had the pleasure of listening to TotalDAC/BHSE setup & left his place staining my pants. The setup was unbelievable that (subjectively) put my Invicta/Electra to shame. We're supposed to have a Stax meet end of the month with another colleague who has the KGST...and I'm almost wondering what's the point .

Really though the SR-009 is scalable & my setup has hardly begun to show what the SR-009 is capable of. We'll have the SR-007Mk1 (early & late) & the SR-007A there too at the meet end of the month. Dying to hear the 007s off the TotalDAC/BHSE.


----------



## purk

anakchan said:


> Last Friday, I went to Stax office (they're shifting end of the month!!) to pick up spare headbands for (Arnaud's &) my SR-009 & on the way home dropped by Arnaud's. I had the pleasure of listening to TotalDAC/BHSE setup & left his place staining my pants. The setup was unbelievable that (subjectively) put my Invicta/Electra to shame. We're supposed to have a Stax meet end of the month with another colleague who has the KGST...and I'm almost wondering what's the point .
> 
> *Really though the SR-009 is scalable & my setup has hardly begun to show what the SR-009 is capable of. We'll have the SR-007Mk1 (early & late) & the SR-007A there too at the meet end of the month. Dying to hear the 007s off the TotalDAC/BHSE.*


 
 Speaking of a scalability, you will be even more impressed with the SR007 MKI than the SR009.  Picking between the SR009 and SR007 MKI out of the BHSE is quite a tough choice.  The SR009 is always take an upper hand on lesser amps though including the KGST & KGSS.


----------



## David1961

purk said:


> Picking between the SR009 and SR007 MKI out of the BHSE is quite a tough choice.




I've only heard the 007mk1's with the BHSE while the stock Mullard's were being used, to which I heard the 009's at the same time, and the mk1's sounded better with some songs, whereas the 009's sounded better with others, however the PH tubes ( which I've never heard the mk1's with ) to my hearing have taken the SQ of the 009's to another level, and much better than the 007mk1's sounded when using the stock Mullard's.


----------



## mulveling

The 009 are more scalable than 007 Mk I (I have a pair of the 71xxxx), as well as being easier to drive. The Headamp BHSE+007 pairing (Holland-made EL34) is just sort of an outlier in that this amp is superbly voiced for the 007. On every other good amp I've heard -- numerous KGSShv, KGST, T2 -- the 009 wins. Only on the BHSE would the choice of 007 vs. 009 be somewhat difficult for me (Psvane tubes may change this). But the best system I've heard is clearly the 009 + DIY T2.
  
 Also the 009 is only mildly bright, and it's like no other "bright" transducer I've heard. I experience *no* listening fatigue with this headphone, even at loud volumes. This is a rare, especially for such a resolving _headphone_. Even with the MUCH warmer sounding beta-HE1000, I experienced some listening fatigue after only a short time. Go with the 009 unless you absolutely must have a warm signature. And the yen is so weak right now, it's an awesome deal to import from Japan.


----------



## MacedonianHero

wink said:


> Get the SR-009's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Very wise words indeed!
  
 The SR-007s are less efficient and I don't think I would say that makes them more scalable as to me it seems on just efficiency. I've heard them through a T-2 (DIY version) and own a pair of Mk1's and love them to death. But for me the SR-009s are a very special headphone that still sit atop of the hill for me.


----------



## jcx

100 dB vs 101 dB re 100 Vrms? - not that big a difference - enough to have to control for in a serious listening test but a 1 dB difference is well below what anyone telling you to turn the music up/down is going to credit you with doing anything at all
  
 and remember that it is always only a 1 dB SPL difference even turned all the way up if each earspeaker sees the same V due to the way logarithms work - and it only requires a 12% difference in drive V level to match them
  
 from Tyll's measurements they both seem to have similar relative flatness/peaking  at 1 kHz and below - but frequency response differences could give bigger subjective loudness impressions than just the spot SPL #
  
 the 009 @ 110 pF is a heavier load than the 007's 94 pF - by more than the 1 dB sensitivity difference


----------



## Jones Bob

Quote:


jcx said:


> 100 dB vs 101 dB re 100 Vrms? - not that big a difference - enough to have to control for in a serious listening test but a 1 dB difference is well below what anyone telling you to turn the music up/down is going to credit you with doing anything at all
> 
> and remember that it is always only a 1 dB SPL difference even turned all the way up if each earspeaker sees the same V due to the way logarithms work - and it only requires a 12% difference in drive V level to match them
> 
> ...


 
  
 Experience with the SR-007 and SR-009 says otherwise, than reading off a spec sheet..


----------



## Aquanote

I've been reading up on the Lambda Pro for hours now and find a lot of conflicting opinions regarding their qualities. Some say its one of the best headphones of all time, even rivaling the high-end Omega's. Others find them to be inferior to beginner Staxes like the SR-207 with reasons such as being old technology and having piercing highs. I would like to hear some more insight from users who had the opportunity to compare them to other, newer models.


----------



## astrostar59

anakchan said:


> Last Friday, I went to Stax office (they're shifting end of the month!!) to pick up spare headbands for (Arnaud's &) my SR-009 & on the way home dropped by Arnaud's. I had the pleasure of listening to TotalDAC/BHSE setup & left his place staining my pants. The setup was unbelievable that (subjectively) put my Invicta/Electra to shame. We're supposed to have a Stax meet end of the month with another colleague who has the KGST...and I'm almost wondering what's the point .
> 
> Really though the SR-009 is scalable & my setup has hardly begun to show what the SR-009 is capable of. We'll have the SR-007Mk1 (early & late) & the SR-007A there too at the meet end of the month. Dying to hear the 007s off the TotalDAC/BHSE.


 

 If a warm signature is appealing, or should I say a non hi-fi or more organic sound with the 009s and the BHSE, the front end or DAC is very important indeed. At this level you are going to hear everything which is both good and bad. I have heard David's K-01 and it suits the system well and sounds amazing, I loved it. It convinced me to buy the 009s and sell my 007 (Mk2.5s). The gap was big in my book.
  
 I have a KGSShv and the 009s and use an Audio Note DAC which is non oversampling and tubed. The TotalDAC is also join oversampling and uses R-2R chip sets. I would recommend those looking to get away from a 'digital' sound and towards a more 'realistic' sound to look at NOS DACs IMO. They have an incredible ability to just play music so naturally, no spinning tracks and favourite bits here and there, I find I just listen to whole albums now. More real and less 'hifi' IMO.
  
 They can / do compete with the very best Delta-Sigma multi dollar products but come in a different flavour especially the ones with tubes and NO filter. It might just be your cup of tea!


----------



## kugino

so what's the preferred amp for the sr007A?


----------



## AudioCats

aquanote said:


> I've been reading up on the Lambda Pro for hours now and find a lot of conflicting opinions regarding their qualities. Some say its one of the best headphones of all time, even rivaling the high-end Omega's. Others find them to be inferior to beginner Staxes like the SR-207 with reasons such as being old technology and having piercing highs. I would like to hear some more insight from users who had the opportunity to compare them to other, newer models.


 
  
 Kind of depending on your amp.
 The Lambda pro has better detail than the SR-Lambda due to the higher bias but the sound is a bit sharper, might be too shoutty for some. If you have a transformer box the Lambda pro has advantage (better detail); if you are using something like a T1 (itself has some kind of mid-range problem, mostly voice region) the SR-Lambda might sound better.


----------



## Lan647

The finest Lambda ever made IMO is the Lambda Signature. The Pro is a bit too bright and edgy sounding to my memory. 

None of the Lambdas can match the 007 or 009 in overall performance. The 00X are the leading duo in the headphone world IMO when it comes to refinement and transparency.


----------



## Earspeakers

They're all good. What is best depends on what you like, as there are small differences between them (I rotate through my headphones and like them all).
  
 To my ears the 404/404SE would be my 'one pair' of Lambdas. Clean, refined, transparent yet with body and presence.
  
 Lambda Signature is excellent, transparent to the Nth degree (only the 4070 could be more transparent), yet will sound a bit thin to most folks probably. 
  
 The current production Lambdas above the 207 are wonderful. Good for rock and popular music probably, lots of weight, presence and oomph.
  
 The 007mk1/mk2 is fine but yes the 009 is the pinnacle IMO.


----------



## Michgelsen

Funny. Before the x07 series existed, the 303 and 404 were not well liked at all. Now that they're 'vintage' Lambdas, they seem to get a bit more popular. I never tried them, because I figured I wouldn't like them, since I couldn't stand the Lambda Signature etch and the 404 is also supposed to have the Lambda etch. The 202 doesn't, which makes it so good.


----------



## kugino

michgelsen said:


> Funny. Before the x07 series existed, the 303 and 404 were not well liked at all. Now that they're 'vintage' Lambdas, they seem to get a bit more popular. I never tried them, because I figured I wouldn't like them, since I couldn't stand the Lambda Signature etch and the 404 is also supposed to have the Lambda etch. The 202 doesn't, which makes it so good.


 

 yeah, i think there's a name for this phenomenon. there are a lot of things (not just headphones) that people hated at the time, but 10 years later when they're rare, they suddenly become "vintage" and great.


----------



## uchihaitachi

What's the best Japanese site to buy Stax from?


----------



## Jones Bob

uchihaitachi said:


> What's the best Japanese site to buy Stax from?




Be aware they will all be grey market and you will not have a warranty. The sellers act as only as middlemen. So you will be on your own if there are any unbalance problems in the earspeakers you recieve. 

That said, I have had very good experiences buying several Stax from PriceJapan.


----------



## ssrock64

This is my first time on this particular thread, but I'm not a newcomer to the world of electrostats or to Stax. I'm a longtime ESP950 owner and I've auditioned most of the current Stax range (not including in-ears) up to the SR007MK2, but yesterday I joined the Stax owner club by complete accident and I felt like posting about it here, since I knew the thread existed.
  
 I was helping a friend clear some space in the back of his car last night, and a very familiar-looking black box poked out of one corner of a seat underneath some shirts. It turned out to be an SRD-4 speaker amp adaptor, with a pair of SR-30 electrets attached. I know that they're pretty much forgotten low-end Stax stuff from the 80s, but my interest was piqued regardless and I couldn't say no when I was told that my friend had no idea what they were and asked me to take them from him. Imagine the look on my girlfriend's face when I came back from trivia night with yet another pair of headphones and what appeared to her to be a new amp, too.
  

  
  
 Listening to them fed by my modest speaker amp, I've actually been pretty surprised at how the combo sounds coming from my experience with my ESP950 and limited time with some Stax gear. I started my listening session with some acoustic works (Nick Drake, Alison Krauss, Michael Hedges, etc.), expecting guitar and vocals to be a strong suit. However, I found that they sounded too harsh for my liking and couldn't really make the genre work. Turning next to rock just to confirm my suspicions, I found that they pretty much lost any listenability for heavily layered electric guitars, which is a shame since rock derivatives make up the majority of my listening. However, my next genre foray led to some very interesting revelations. I put on the latest AWOLNATION album on a whim, and found that these actually make quite a nice basshead set for casual pop/electronic listening, especially with a little EQ from my preamp. They seems to excel with midrange synths and low drums, and I've been really enjoying them with heavily electronic albums which feature live instrumentation as well, such as Daft Punk's _Random Access Memories_. I've also liked them a lot with bare-bones, stripped down garage rock, though there's a line at which the sound becomes too clustered.
  
 It's a very selective headphone, but when it gets into its groove it sounds quite astounding. I find this SR-34 chain significantly more compelling for synth-heavy music than my HD650, and about on par with my ESP950. For classical, neoclassical, and experimental drum performances, they again fall in between the HD650 and ESP950. However, for acoustic music and rock, they lag behind both of my other main headphones. They have a very hard to please sound signature, but one worth playing with to find that sweet spot.
  

  
 I'm not electret or electrostat expert by any means, but I've never heard anything quite like this combo before. I'm going to keep it around just so I can listen to the amazing way it synergizes with a few particular albums, like Animal Collective's _Feels_ or La Dispute's _Rooms of the House_. There's not a lot of info out there about the way these sound, so I wanted to write something down to get a little more out there. If anyone wants to suggest an upgrade that would bring out the most for these, please let me know.


----------



## Earspeakers

michgelsen said:


> Funny. Before the x07 series existed, the 303 and 404 were not well liked at all. Now that they're 'vintage' Lambdas, they seem to get a bit more popular. I never tried them, because I figured I wouldn't like them, since I couldn't stand the Lambda Signature etch and the 404 is also supposed to have the Lambda etch. The 202 doesn't, which makes it so good.


 

 I don't like them because they're vintage, and I'm not sure others do either. Don't know why they supposedly weren't well liked before, they're a fine Lambda. But come to think of it, it does often happen that something is disliked when it's released, and later people realize how good it really was. I'm also not a fan of the supposed "Stax etch" theory. The only one that could be said of having that might be the Lambda Signature Pro with its thin membrane. I think the etch is just what reality sounds like to people used to the sound of magnets.


----------



## TheAttorney

earspeakers said:


> I'm also not a fan of the supposed "Stax etch" theory....I think the etch is just what reality sounds like to people used to the sound of magnets.


 
 My first Stax was an SR-202. Compared to my previous dynamics it was a revelation, and no etch that I noticed.
 Purely due to upgraditis, I then upgraded to SR-404 Signature, which _did _have an etch (upper mid emphasis that, for example, made female vocals sound thin). In fact, I couldn't bear it after a while and went on to 007s, which were a revelation again, and no etch.
  
 So I don't think this is simply a matter of listeners getting used to dynamics vs electrostatic sound signatures.


----------



## Earspeakers

theattorney said:


> My first Stax was an SR-202. Compared to my previous dynamics it was a revelation, and no etch that I noticed.
> Purely due to upgraditis, I then upgraded to SR-404 Signature, which _did _have an etch (upper mid emphasis that, for example, made female vocals sound thin). In fact, I couldn't bear it after a while and went on to 007s, which were a revelation again, and no etch.
> 
> So I don't think this is simply a matter of listeners getting used to dynamics vs electrostatic sound signatures.


 
  
 Maybe ... I won't argue. I have a pile of Staxen I listen to weekly (009, various 007, various Sigmas, many many lambdas, 4070) and I don't hear anything that sounds like an etch on any of them. Thin - yes, some are thin. The Lambda Sig Pro like I said is the thinnest sounding, does the 003 and 4070, but not etch. But then I don't listen to frequency bumps, I design spectrum analyzers for a living, I know my ears aren't expensive enough to be a pair


----------



## negura

jones bob said:


> Be aware they will all be grey market and you will not have a warranty. The sellers act as only as middlemen. So you will be on your own if there are any unbalance problems in the earspeakers you recieve.
> 
> That said, I have had very good experiences buying several Stax from PriceJapan.


 
  
 They will be grey market as far as Stax may be concerned, but unless anything changed PriceJapan is including a one year warranty policy. You are as much on your own or not as with any other retailers (based on the reputation and business continuity of that retailer). Nowhere overseas a buyer deals directly with Stax afaik. In some countries in Europe an extended warranty is offered by some dealers, for the (much higher) purchase price. It's up to anyone to decide what's better value for them.


----------



## HemiSam

I purchased brand new 007A's from a retailer via FromJapan.  A channel imbalance developed after less than a week.  I had to return them on my dime and they had the retailer provide a new replacement pair.  I was also charged shipping back to me.  The new pair I have been using for weeks without drama.
  
 I'm still ahead of the game, but it was a PITA.  IMO, Stax has a quality control issue.  Statistically, too many of their high end cans are having channel imbalance issues and some dealers are talking about it.
  
 HS


----------



## Jones Bob

negura said:


> They will be grey market as far as Stax may be concerned, but unless anything changed PriceJapan is including a one year warranty policy. You are as much on your own or not as with any other retailers (based on the reputation and business continuity of that retailer). Nowhere overseas a buyer deals directly with Stax afaik. In some countries in Europe an extended warranty is offered by some dealers, for the (much higher) purchase price. It's up to anyone to decide what's better value for them.


 
  
 Thanks for clearing that up. That's good to know. 
  
 Fortuneately, I have had no issues with the Stax headphones I have bought from them.


----------



## uchihaitachi

What explains the massive price differential. Even if you take into consideration of import duties and shipping fees, why do sellers in the (say UK and the US), charge a significantly higher premium than what it costs to buy in Japan?


----------



## DougD

uchihaitachi said:


> What explains the massive price differential. Even if you take into consideration of import duties and shipping fees, why do sellers in the (say UK and the US), charge a significantly higher premium than what it costs to buy in Japan?


 
  
 I'd guess that Price Japan mostly buys things when they have an order (and cash) in hand, and ships quickly. So no investment in inventory to speak of. The retail price of Stax is probably lower in its homeland than in other places ... Stax may even try to enforce pricing rules in overseas markets, as many high-end equipment manufacturers seem to do ... and Price Japan can make a living by working those price differentials. They don't need as much markup per unit if they're selling at volume. I doubt many US-based headphone retailers average selling one Stax unit per week.


----------



## Jones Bob

uchihaitachi said:


> What explains the massive price differential. Even if you take into consideration of import duties and shipping fees, why do sellers in the (say UK and the US), charge a significantly higher premium than what it costs to buy in Japan?




The Yen rate is falling making the dollar cost buying from Japan much more attractive. Plus if any distributor maintains stock on hand, they bought at a higher price months ago.


----------



## nassq8

astrostar59 said:


> If a warm signature is appealing, or should I say a non hi-fi or more organic sound with the 009s and the BHSE, the front end or DAC is very important indeed. At this level you are going to hear everything which is both good and bad. I have heard David's K-01 and it suits the system well and sounds amazing, I loved it. It convinced me to buy the 009s and sell my 007 (Mk2.5s). The gap was big in my book.
> 
> I have a KGSShv and the 009s and use an Audio Note DAC which is non oversampling and tubed. The TotalDAC is also join oversampling and uses R-2R chip sets. I would recommend those looking to get away from a 'digital' sound and towards a more 'realistic' sound to look at NOS DACs IMO. They have an incredible ability to just play music so naturally, no spinning tracks and favourite bits here and there, I find I just listen to whole albums now. More real and less 'hifi' IMO.
> 
> They can / do compete with the very best Delta-Sigma multi dollar products but come in a different flavour especially the ones with tubes and NO filter. It might just be your cup of tea!


 
 +1
  
 KGSShv +  009 +  NOS Dac (Neko Audio D100 MK2) = sound flows as a liquid gold (warm, real, stunning)
 KGSShv +  009 + OS DACs (I owned) = sound's brittle, thin almost destroy 009 capability


----------



## AnakChan

There's a multitude of reasons :-
  

[as per Jones Bob] timing of the order by the local distributor of that region
local distributor has to cover for upkeep of running the business (water/electricity/accounting fees/infrastructure for stock take, (self?) employee salaries)
local distributor of that region still have to house it somewhere and therefore at the mercy of the local rental rates there
local distributor would cover the international shipping costs of repairs (the kind HemiSam had to pay for)
[already noted by OP] local distributor is also liable for any local import taxes
authorised resellers would buy only from the local distributors (in Stax case in the US/UK I think only one per country therefore only one source?)
Price Japan is more a broker than an online retailer.
Price Japan can obtain from multiple sources (presumably whichever that has the best price at that moment of intended purchase)
[as per Jones Bob] local prices generally are cheaper. In Japan if you're a business sending off something more than 200,000 yen you'll need to fill in proper forms and may require export licenses
etc.etc.etc.
  
 The discussion of buying via PJ vs local sources has been debated here quite a few times. There's a dedicated Stax Channel Imbalance thread where there's a unanimous split on some feeling it's still worthy to take the risk of buying online and fingers crossed all are fine whilst others who prefer not to take the risk, spend more and buy locally and let the local retailer/distributor handle the risk mitigation.


----------



## uchihaitachi

anakchan said:


> There's a multitude of reasons :-
> 
> 
> [as per Jones Bob] timing of the order by the local distributor of that region
> ...


 
 Doesn't price japan still offer a one year warranty?
  
 Also, would the STAX SRM-007tA be have to be modified to work in the UK?


----------



## realmassy

nassq8 said:


> +1
> 
> KGSShv +  009 +  NOS Dac (Neko Audio D100 MK2) = sound flows as a liquid gold (warm, real, stunning)
> KGSShv +  009 + OS DACs (I owned) = sound's brittle, thin almost destroy 009 capability


 
  
 I had the D100 for an year, it's a great DAC but not NOS. You're comparing the wrong things, a good DAC, costing $1500 and a not-so-good DAC.


----------



## nassq8

realmassy said:


> I had the D100 for an year, it's a great DAC but not NOS. You're comparing the wrong things, a good DAC, costing $1500 and a not-so-good DAC.




I stand corrected; digging more info, it does do oversampling, but not upsampling. 

Sure, it seems incorrect comparison. But overall, the warm flow given by this DAC makes me wondering if there is a couple of tubes hidden under its hood. Works beautifully with 009 and KGSShv.


----------



## realmassy

Totally agree with that, the Neko is a very nice sounding dac and a good match with STAX. My note was just to highlight the fact that OS DACs can sound good and warm, it doesn't have to be NOS or tubed to sound good with the 009


----------



## preproman

nassq8 said:


> I stand corrected; digging more info, it does do oversampling, but not upsampling.
> 
> Sure, it seems incorrect comparison. But overall, the warm flow given by this DAC makes me wondering if there is a couple of tubes hidden under its hood. Works beautifully with 009 and KGSShv.


 
  
 What was the OS DAC you owned and didn't like?


----------



## AnakChan

uchihaitachi said:


> Doesn't price japan still offer a one year warranty?
> 
> Also, would the [COLOR=333333]STAX SRM-007tA be have to be modified to work in the UK?[/COLOR]


i believe they offer a warranty but I don't know if that one year starts when you pay PJ or when PJ pays the shop.

If you buy any SRM amp from PJ, take a look at their page, they offer an external Churi transformer option (I.e. It's still still a 100V amp).


----------



## nassq8

preproman said:


> What was the OS DAC you owned and didn't like?


 
 Burson Audio DA-160 and iFi micro. For my listening taste, the latter is nice for anything but 009, it is so brutal and steely with 009. Burson is decent and bearable, but not optimal.  Other I have, are asus U7 and SB FX pro, both should be avoided with 009 IMO.


----------



## Jones Bob

anakchan said:


> i believe they offer a warranty but I don't know if that one year starts when you pay PJ or when PJ pays the shop.
> 
> If you buy any SRM amp from PJ, take a look at their page, they offer an external Churi transformer option (I.e. It's still still a 100V amp).


 
  
 I believe that PJ does not offer a warranty per se, but acts as the go between the original seller and their buyer to honor that distributor's warranty.
  
 The buyer must pay shipping both ways and sometimes wait while it is passed thru several hands. .
  
 More as a service to their customers on PJ's part and not directly responsible, I'd say.


----------



## negura

jones bob said:


> I believe that PJ does not offer a warranty per se, but acts as the go between the original seller and their buyer to honor that distributor's warranty.
> 
> The buyer must pay shipping both ways and sometimes wait while it is passed thru several hands. .
> 
> More as a service to their customers on PJ's part and not directly responsible, I'd say.


 
  
 PJ calls it 'Warranty'. The buyer's relation and the responsibility for this policy is with PJ. What happens behind the scene is interesting to PJ, but not so much for the buyer. This is little different from a dealer who might pass an item to a distributor/service center/RMA for repairs etc.
  
 T&Cs for warranty seem to me stated quite clearly:
 http://pricejapan.com/front/e_warranty.php
  
 If I was to comment on my experience with PJ's warranty process is that the communication is functional, but not great, also due to language/cultural barriers. If one is not prepared for it, it can come as a surprise to western expectations.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Hey everyone.  Odd request here, but it never hurts to ask.
  
 I've put together a Chicago area headphone meet for June 27th.  Going to be a few stax heads there this time.  I just found out that someone is going to bring the Koss 950 setup, but they are using the stock amp to drive them.  I would love to hear these driven properly out of the few stax amps that will be there, as they have been on my radar.
  
 so the question is, would anyone who has it, be willing to let me borrow their Koss 950 to Stax pro adapter?  I'll pay for any shipping, and even pay a few bucks to you for rental via paypal gift.  Or I'll donate some monies to head-fi.  whatever.  I know its a long shot, but it never hurts to ask.  I've been around here a while, and I think that I am trusted.
  
 Thank you for considering.  It would be nice to have this as another listening option at the meet.


----------



## racer11

never heard of stax but dying to know how it sounds. elecst speakers like summit x sounded so good, but cans would be bass deficient wouldnt they be?


----------



## uchihaitachi

racer11 said:


> never heard of stax but dying to know how it sounds. elecst speakers like summit x sounded so good, but cans would be bass deficient wouldnt they be?


 
 The SR009 is most definitely not bass deficient in my opinion.


----------



## racer11

id consider if they sounded like the summit x, my fav speakers of all time, probably. i thought bass was an issue with elect headphones, thats why planar magnetic came to market to take over


----------



## Moonhead

Racer11

You Can only decide for Youself by listening, but Stax 007 & 009 are more 'soft hidding' in the bass compered to something like HD800, just a different presentation, one Thing for sure nothing Can beat Stax for vocals.


----------



## Lan647

The bass of the SR-009 is faster, better extended, more impactful and more textured than with the HD 800. Compared to a planar like the LCD-2/3 or HE500, the SR-009 may not give you the same sense of weight/heft, but it will go as deep and it will kick as hard, with even better precision.


----------



## NoPants

there's a dead spot in the 009 around 50-60 hz compared to the 007, but you probably just need to try them out side by side to notice, let alone care
  
 that difference is less obvious compared to how each of those headphones handle treble


----------



## Moonhead

Well that was for I where trying to refer to, that 009 doesnt provide the same sense of weight/heft, but its sounds more natural, lifelike if you will. 
 009 has a beautiful and very precise bass and extended treble, I personally like the 007 better, but it doesnt go as low as 009 and doesn't have that sprakly treble as 009.
 Both world class end-game headphones/earspeakers.


----------



## thinker

ordered just for fun the Verto and got it from Audiovalve and had a brief  listen with SR-OO9 and Stax Lambda signature,......wait a minute
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.........this device trumps easily every Stax amp out there and is better than the DIY amp wich i have.This unit is very musical and powerful and airy,Verto caused now a problem because i prefer now Lambda signature to SR-OO9... heh...


----------



## paradoxper

Get a better amp, thinker.


----------



## thinker

paradoxper said:


> Get a better amp, thinker.


 

 that ugly two chassis amp is amb with strong power supply ,not bad at all


----------



## paradoxper

thinker said:


> that ugly two chassis amp is amb with strong power supply ,not bad at all


 
 Sir, I was referring to that atrocious Verto.


----------



## georgep

thinker said:


> that ugly two chassis amp is amb with strong power supply ,not bad at all



Is there an AMB electrostatic amp design out there? Or were you referring to some other DIY electrostatic amp?


----------



## NoPants

I think he's just feeding the transformer box, it doesn't really matter what's in front


----------



## NoPants

to bring it back to actual amplifiers:







need some spiked feet to reduce the temperature inside the case. 

also in the spirit of Kevin, needs a wooden knob


----------



## HemiSam

nopants said:


> to bring it back to actual amplifiers:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Extremely phallic....
  
  




  
 HS


----------



## thinker

paradoxper said:


> Get a better amp, thinker.


 

  The picture has only one amp AMB the other is a transformer box for Stax phones.I have had many Stax amps including Transistoramp V4 the Verto trumps easily all of them.The Verto is dead silent no AC noises etc. it produces a very large soundstage now i get also a front stage for Lambdas wich is interesting.The Verto is very detailed and smooth at the same time with excellent treble i miss no details, very musical violons ,female voices crystal clear .The sound is quite a bit different what you get from 727 or 007 it's more relaxed like a big tube amp.I was stunned when i heard the first notes yesterday, just.. wow ..that tiny black box.


----------



## David1961

thinker said:


> I have had many Stax amps including Transistoramp V4 the Verto trumps easily all of them.The Verto is dead silent no AC noises etc. it produces a very large soundstage now i get also a front stage for Lambdas wich is interesting.The Verto is very detailed and smooth at the same time with excellent treble i miss no details, very musical violons ,female voices crystal clear .The sound is quite a bit different what you get from 727 or 007 it's more relaxed like a big tube amp.I was stunned when i heard the first notes yesterday, just.. wow ..that tiny black box.




I haven't heard an SRM-727, but have a 717 and 007t with both 007 and 009, and saying the Verto trumps Stax amps doesn't mean a lot IMO. Now if the Verto trumped an SRM-T2, ( although I've never heard a T2 ) then that would probably be a different matter.


----------



## kevin gilmore

nopants said:


> need some spiked feet to reduce the temperature inside the case.
> 
> also in the spirit of Kevin, needs a wooden knob


 
  
 funny that, I'm doing a pair of African blackwood knobs probably next week


----------



## Earspeakers

nopants said:


> to bring it back to actual amplifiers:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Looks beautiful, and it looks like a Megatron?
  
 Where did you get the case/how did you do it? I have a Megatron in progress and the chassis is (as always) the issue.


----------



## Tachikoma

david1961 said:


> I haven't heard an SRM-727, but have a 717 and 007t with both 007 and 009, and saying the Verto trumps Stax amps doesn't mean a lot IMO. Now if the Verto trumped an SRM-T2, ( although I've never heard a T2 ) then that would probably be a different matter.


 

 Why should a $600-700 transformer box be compared to an $10K dedicated electrostatic amp?


----------



## wink

Because they can both drive the same headphone.
  
 If one barely does the job and the other does a supurb job, it proves one is better than the other.
  
 Although, it must be said that some tin-eared tone-deaf and totally disinterested listeners may not be able to discern any difference between toe two.
  
 Hearing acuity and interest in better reproduction of sound are not universally equal in the human species.


----------



## thinker

wink said:


> Because they can both drive the same headphone.
> 
> If one barely does the job and the other does a supurb job, it proves one is better than the other.
> 
> ...


 

 Who have heard Verto? i am not interested what the source is for Stax phones is it BHES or T2 or whatever i am only interested what is delivered to my ears .All i can say that Verto is much better on every area than any Stax amp.Maybe there are better sources somewhere i don't know let me know if there are.


----------



## wink

Quote:thinker 





> All i can say that Verto is much better on every area than any Stax amp


 
  
 Are you talking about Stax's own amps or the Kevin Gilmore designed Stax amps?


----------



## paradoxper

thinker said:


> Who have heard Verto? i am not interested what the source is for Stax phones is it BHES or T2 or whatever i am only interested what is delivered to my ears .All i can say that Verto is much better on every area than any Stax amp.Maybe there are better sources somewhere i don't know let me know if there are.


 
 Are you implying you've heard all Stax amps? I'd imply you're shilling for Audiovalve. Surprise surprise.


----------



## thinker

wink said:


> Are you talking about Stax's own amps or the Kevin Gilmore designed Stax amps?


 

 Stax own amps ,i own Transistoramp V4 but Verto source is much better,are Kevins amps much better than V4 i don't know.


----------



## wink

YES


----------



## thinker

paradoxper said:


> Are you implying you've heard all Stax amps? I'd imply you're shilling for Audiovalve. Surprise surprise.


 

 I have 717,727,007mk2 ,323 i hope you will have the opportunity to hear somwhere Verto and make an objective judgement.I am not interested who has done Verto only the component or source is important.


----------



## Tachikoma

wink said:


> Because they can both drive the same headphone.
> 
> If one barely does the job and the other does a supurb job, it proves one is better than the other.
> 
> ...


 

 Would you consider a comparison between an Asgard and a GS-X or Ragnarok meaningful then?
  
 Just because someone posts something positive about an Audiovalve product does not automatically make them a shill.


----------



## thinker

wink said:


> YES


 

 Have you heard Verto? if you are sure they are better amps so i maybe order one for my collection.


----------



## Tachikoma

wink said:


> YES


 

 The transistoramp v4 that KG and Spritzer think is roughly the same thing as the KGSS...?


----------



## paradoxper

thinker said:


> I have 717,727,007mk2 ,323 i hope you will have the opportunity to hear somwhere Verto and make an objective judgement.I am not interested who has done Verto only the component or source is important.


 
 I've actually heard the Verto. I don't feel the need to bash it (feeling it's not very good,) but all you fanboys are on a mission to shill it to the top.


----------



## thinker

paradoxper said:


> I've actually heard the Verto. I don't feel the need to bash it (feeling it's not very good,) but all you fanboys are on a mission to shill it to the top.


 

 I have too many amps in my collection to be fanboy of something but nice to have your opinion


----------



## paradoxper

thinker said:


> I have too many amps in my collection to be fanboy of something but nice to have your opinion


 
 Sure.


----------



## wink

There should always be room for some more top quality amps.


----------



## David1961

tachikoma said:


> david1961 said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't heard an SRM-727, but have a 717 and 007t with both 007 and 009, and saying the Verto trumps Stax amps doesn't mean a lot IMO. Now if the Verto trumped an SRM-T2, ( although I've never heard a T2 ) then that would probably be a different matter.
> ...






 I didn't think that much of the SRM-007t + 717 especially driving the 007, which is why I said a Verto trumping those Stax amps didn't mean a lot IMO, which is also why I added IF it trumped a T2 then that would be a different matter.

It's good those that have a Verto are enjoying it, but that's what they should be doing, and let others with different amps enjoy theirs.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Quick question for your stax experts... I've been gone a very, very long time lol. 
  
 I just picked up an HE60 for the second time, and I have a SRM1 on the way. This will have to do until I can order a BHSE or Wes (leaning towards the WES). I'm also thinking of picking up a pair of 007 mk1s. Would the stax amp be able to decently drive them for the meantime? 
  
 Also for anyone that's owned or heard the HE60 and the MK1, are these somewhat complimentary? If they are relatively similar, I don't see the point of owning both--although it seems they may be a darker phone? I've been reading up on as much as I can, but because they are both stats and discontinued, I'm not finding much..


----------



## n3rdling

Thinker, is the verto even better than the malvalve (which you claimed was the best amp in the world here )?
  
  
 Quote:


number1sixerfan said:


> Quick question for your stax experts... I've been gone a very, very long time lol.
> 
> I just picked up an HE60 for the second time, and I have a SRM1 on the way. This will have to do until I can order a BHSE or Wes (leaning towards the WES). I'm also thinking of picking up a pair of 007 mk1s. Would the stax amp be able to decently drive them for the meantime?
> 
> Also for anyone that's owned or heard the HE60 and the MK1, are these somewhat complimentary? If they are relatively similar, I don't see the point of owning both--although it seems they may be a darker phone? I've been reading up on as much as I can, but because they are both stats and discontinued, I'm not finding much..


 
  
 They're really different headphones and I think they'd compliment each other quite well.  The HE60 is like a faster, less veiled version of the HD600 and the SR-007 is like a faster, less veiled version of the LCD-2.  I'd highly recommend getting the BHSE over the WES.  The SRM1 should do fine in the meantime.


----------



## NoPants

earspeakers said:


> Looks beautiful, and it looks like a Megatron?
> 
> Where did you get the case/how did you do it? I have a Megatron in progress and the chassis is (as always) the issue.


 
 by hand, chassis punches
  
 HE60 is a nice headphone to have around, I prefer it to the lamda series because of how it handles mids


----------



## Earspeakers

nopants said:


> by hand, chassis punches


 
  
 Nice work. Can you tell us where you got the chassis itself? Did you paint it yourself?


----------



## thinker

> Originally Posted by *n3rdling* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Thinker, is the verto even better than the malvalve (which you claimed was the best amp in the world here )?


 
 That was two years ago, Malvalve was slightly better than Stax amp (007) it had nice soundstage otherwise typical tube amp.Verto has wide tubelike soundstage with blackest background (no tube noise or AC) dead silent and allows to hear better inner dimensions or distance between instruments especially deepness. Verto is sweet and liquid and has complete absence of harsh or hot treble wich is good for SR-009 and Lambda Pro signature.I can't hear any areas wich is pronounced from bass to highs this is not the case with many tube amps Verto is linear but it has tube like signature it's a nice mix.Verto is more dynamic than Malvalve or like a typical tube amp it has Solid State dynamics and speed for instance guitar strings are lightning fast and when they pop up from black ground you get the real feel.Vertos soundstage is like a perfect cube all directions are equal you hear it on SR-009 better than on Lambdas.I tried different amps with Verto on reverse config. and there exists minimal difference don't know if it is caused by the feeding current.On stringed instruments you hear the complite doppler effect symmetrical waves without blockage or bias in notes this is the case where most amps fail .When hearing Verto first time you will notice at first the open wide soundstage and secondly the sweetness of tones.
  
 Verto
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and on most tube amps the wave isn't symmetrical


----------



## David1961

@ thinker,

I've only read the odd comment made about the Verto so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't an intergrated amp or some kind of amp need to be used along with the Verto for it to work, and if so wouldn't that other amp have an effect on the SQ coming from the verto ?


----------



## thinker

david1961 said:


> @ thinker,
> 
> I've only read the odd comment made about the Verto so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't an intergrated amp or some kind of amp need to be used along with the Verto for it to work, and if so wouldn't that other amp have an effect on the SQ coming from the verto ?


 

 The Verto has an odd headphone plug in front where you can hook it up with amps with headphone output and take current of it and drive headphones but this plug configuration i don't recommend for Stat phones,i think Eric did use this plug.You have to have at least an amp/intergrated wich output is minimal 30W up to 60W to drive Staxes to good levels.The connection for amps (reverse) are speaker tabs and the Verto automatically adjust the current needed for Staxes but Verto needs juice... if i understood right.There should be no influence how the amp sounds you will only "hear" Verto,... again if i understood right.


----------



## funkforfood

I'm looking for a 6 pins NB socket for my DIY amp project.
 On ebay is no more available, where can i find one?
 Thanks!


----------



## number1sixerfan

n3rdling said:


> They're really different headphones and I think they'd compliment each other quite well.  The HE60 is like a faster, less veiled version of the HD600 and the SR-007 is like a faster, less veiled version of the LCD-2.  I'd highly recommend getting the BHSE over the WES.  The SRM1 should do fine in the meantime.


 
 Thanks for the note. That definitely helps. I've owned the HE60 before and I know for a fact it's the best headphone I've ever heard for my ears. I think a darker sounding headphone could compliment, but I've read that the 007's may lack a little punch/excitement? And yea, I've read almost any and everything on the wes and BHSE, here and elsewhere. If I only keep the HE60, I'm going to go with the WES, but if I get the 007 as well, I'll probably go the BHSE route--just not to keen on the year plus weight. 
  
 Thanks for the advice.


----------



## EveTan

Trying to decide between a mint SR-007 MK1 and a new SR-007A from PJ. 
 Both around the same price, when factoring shipping and everything. 
  
 I've heard that the MKII changes the tuning for the worst, but it fixes up alot of issues that might affect longevity, like cable strain relief and whatnot. 
  
 Interested in hearing your opinions on this.


----------



## Earspeakers

I've got both (the mk1 is a early carbon box). I like the current production/mk2 better. More well defined and balanced, the early ones are rather like the Lambda Nova in that they're warm and fuzzy.


----------



## georgep

earspeakers said:


> I've got both (the mk1 is a early carbon box). I like the current production/mk2 better. More well defined and balanced, the early ones are rather like the Lambda Nova in that they're warm and fuzzy.



Hey Dan, thinking you might want to try new pads on your mk1 as that is the first I heard of the mk1 being compared to any lambda. I get that we all hear differently, so who knows? Personally, I have trouble choosing a favorite between the 009 and the mk1, but as between the mk1 and mk2, the mk1 is the more balanced and well defined (that said, you can't go wrong with the mk2 as it is clearly a totl headphone).


----------



## Earspeakers

> thinking you might want to try new pads on your mk1 as that is the first I heard of the mk1 being compared to any lambda.


 
  
 I don't mean to really compare it to a Lambda as they're obviously quite different. What I mean is that across the line I hear the SQ move along several axis. One of them is warm<->clear. I think it makes sense, there's only so much they can control here and it's not like they can twiddle a dial to "tune in" some kind of tone (another axis I hear is fuzzy<->detailed). 
  
 At any rate I'd characterize the Nova as the warmest of the Lambdas*, and the 07mk1 as the warmest of the Omegas. On the other end, the Lambda Signature Pro being the clearest (or even more the 4070 if you want to call it a Lambda), with the 009 the clearest of the Omega line. 
  
 * The modern production Lambda (at least the 307 I have) is also quite warm, but in a different way, a more punchy and alive sort of way


----------



## astrostar59

Hi All
 I finally went ahead and ordered the 507s from Price Japan to complete my second system. I live in Spain but spend some time in the UK and I don't want to drive over with my 009s and the KGSShv every year (all the vibrations and temperature hikes in the car).
  
 So my second system will be: MacBook Pro and Audirvana+ (no iTunes) into Metrum Octave MKII DAC (NOS sampling) and a trusty SRM-717 driving the 507s. All my music is in AIFF format as RedBook resolution 44.1. The little Metrum DAC is no slouch but not as good as my Audio Note DAC. I would recommend the Metrum to folk looking for a smooth and realistic sounding DAC in the sub £1000 category.
  
 Way back I have had various Lambdas, the last one being a Lambda Nova Signature. The sound of the latter was very transparent and airy, but it had limited bass power and the mounting of the drivers was a bit suspect. It was however IMO better than dynamics at the time for the price as I major on ambiance and detail rather than boosted bass response.
  
 Anyway, here's hoping the current model 507 is better as regards construction and bass response.
  
 I'll report back later...


----------



## paulpaul

I have been using my SRM-006ts with 407 earphone. Recently I would like to upgrade my earphone to 007Mk2. Do I need to replace my 006ts as well?


----------



## Lan647

paulpaul said:


> I have been using my SRM-006ts with 407 earphone. Recently I would like to upgrade my earphone to 007Mk2. Do I need to replace my 006ts as well?


 

 YES. There is absolutely no chance of the 006ts driving the 007 (any revision) well. Even the 007TII can't do that.


----------



## yawg

So I'm on no. 5 in listening experience, not too bad for the money ...


----------



## milosz

kevin gilmore said:


> funny that, I'm doing a pair of African blackwood knobs probably next week


 
  
 One of my latest things...
  

  
 Red tigers-eye stone knob
 Polished-then-anodized aluminum panel machined from 1/2" aluminum billet
 Bloodwood trim


----------



## kevin gilmore

please point me to a place to buy the stone.
  
 I have all the tools now to start doing stone knobs
  
http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/knobs7.jpg
  
 two are African blackwood, one is ebony, hard to tell the difference.
  
 about 5 more to do, then on to other materials.


----------



## milosz

kevin gilmore said:


> please point me to a place to buy the stone.


 
  
 I get the raw stone from eBay. You need a piece of 3~5 lb size to get a decent 2-inch dia. knob out of it.
  
 The chatoyance comes from asbestos fibers embedded in quartz.  Iron compounds give the color.
  
 Because of the asbestos, it has to be cut while immersed in water or cutting oil, etc.  Same is true for initial stages of grinding / polishing.
  
 This one is normal yellow tigers eye (It's a knob for a DIY T2 so, yeah, this is a STAX discussion....)
  

  
 I've got a couple of nice hunks of blue tigers eye I can probably get two decent knobs out of. I've also got some moonstone, some carnelian, some agate and a few other things that I might try.  I think it's kind of hard to beat tigers eye, though. The fire and depth fascinate. I might like to do one of etched meteoric iron / nickel maybe ...


----------



## paradoxper

Want to see how those stones pop on a amp. Have any further pics of a finished build with it?


----------



## EveTan

Might be unrelated... but I'm wavering between the choice a 007 and a W3000ANV.
  
 I know they're considered two different beasts, but I was wondering what the opinion is on this thread as it has been brought up a bit on the W3000 thread.


----------



## astrostar59

I can't speak for the W3000ANV but on the 007s I had, they need a good amp to get near to the potential. This IMO might mean a non Stax amp, though that is another controversial story.
 If on a budget the second hand SRM717 will get closer IMO than the Stax tubed amps that are current products and possibly the SRM727 and 323. I got some compression but only at big volumes. Otherwise the bass and soundstage was very good. It gets you in the Stax door so to speak, then you will be hooked forever Tee Hee. Welcome to the weird world of the Stax audiophile....
 Try and get a loan pair before you buy with at least a new SRM727. Stax are not 'wow' phones in a demo that lasts 30 minutes, so be careful. Bass boosted dynamics can do that, but the true accuracy and sensitivity of Stax phones win hands down for me, but it takes a few days to realise it..... the connection to the music, it is priceless.


----------



## EveTan

astrostar59 said:


> I can't speak for the W3000ANV but on the 007s I had, they need a good amp to get near to the potential. This IMO might mean a non Stax amp, though that is another controversial story.
> If on a budget the second hand SRM717 will get closer IMO than the Stax tubed amps that are current products and possibly the SRM727 and 323. I got some compression but only at big volumes. Otherwise the bass and soundstage was very good. It gets you in the Stax door so to speak, then you will be hooked forever Tee Hee. Welcome to the weird world of the Stax audiophile....
> Try and get a loan pair before you buy with at least a new SRM727. Stax are not 'wow' phones in a demo that lasts 30 minutes, so be careful. Bass boosted dynamics can do that, but the true accuracy and sensitivity of Stax phones win hands down for me, but it takes a few days to realise it..... the connection to the music, it is priceless.


 
 Hmm, I've always been curious about how "bad" a not well amped Stax would sound. I mean I understand that they need good amps to reach their potential, but how big is this gap? I think it would be kind of interesting to see Stax out of a, for example, SRM252 and see how that goes >.<. I can always get someone to build me a KGSSHV in the future, but as of now, I will have to use a loaner SRM252. Due to budget constraints. 
  
 I'm not a big fan of bass. But I guess the main reason why I'm putting the two together is that I want something with very smooth sounding vocals. Smooth...yet forward? Maybe forward is not the right word, but I kind of want that feeling that I don't have to crank up the volume just to hear the singer's voice a bit more.


----------



## astrostar59

Someone else may need to chime in re 252 amp, but I for one would not get an 007 with that amp. IMO you would be better going second hand for a 717 if you fancy starting with an 007. The 507 will be fine driven by any Stax amp, as to an extent the 009, though the latter will reveal any shortcoming upstream. I would not worry too much about hearing smooth vocals, with any of the current Stax phones you will hear more IMO than most of the better planers or dynamics. The challenge I have found with Stax is the drive and bass element to the sound. I didn't hear really good bass realism until I got up to the 007.
  
 I would recommend you get the 007 with a second hand 727 or 717 amp. That will get you closer to the holy grail of the Stax world, leaving you the opportunity to move up on an amp later if you find you really use them a lot. It is not unlike high end speaker systems, you can get really top end speakers but they need a good front end as in DAC or turntable and a high end Amp to realise their potential.
  
 From what little I know about the W3000 it is designed to be easily driven, i.e. out of an iPod or basic amp of lower power output. Stax headphones are not in this area at all i.e not portable and need a specialist amplifier. So it is hard to compare then IMO. If a static sit down at home system is what you are after, and the best sound re detail retrieval, ambiance and getting closer to the source, then Stax might be right up your street. If you are a bass head go with the LCD2.
  
 Get a demo and you can decide for yourself...


----------



## David1961

Having had a 007mk1 driven by an SRM -007t, and hearing a 007mk1 with a 717, I'd never again get a Stax amp to drive a 007, and if I only had the money to get a Stax amp, I'd wait until I'd saved enough for a non Stax amp, probably a KGSSHV or KGST.


----------



## gameon

I have a Stax 323 that I was using with the 009's and they sounded good, I just picked up a KGST and it took it too a whole new level, have had me eye on some 007Mk1's used that I would like to try


----------



## EveTan

david1961 said:


> Having had a 007mk1 driven by an SRM -007t, and hearing a 007mk1 with a 717, I'd never again get a Stax amp to drive a 007, and if I only had the money to get a Stax amp, I'd wait until I'd saved enough for a non Stax amp, probably a KGSSHV or KGST.


 
 Exactly my plan. 
  
 I would use a loaner SRM252 just for first usage, and then wait for my friend to build me a KGSSHV


----------



## David1961

Having written what I did in my previous post, KGSSHV's and KGST's done by a certain builder can be around the same price as a Stax 007t or 717, or not much more, although I believe he's only doing KGST's ATM.


----------



## Earspeakers

The 252 is nice, head and shoulders above any dynamic headphone headphone amp I've heard. The 323S is good too. Going to a KGST will give better low end, more clarity, oomph and presence overall and is so naturally better, but the Stax amps are excellent too.


----------



## astrostar59

earspeakers said:


> The 252 is nice, head and shoulders above any dynamic headphone headphone amp I've heard. The 323S is good too. Going to a KGST will give better low end, more clarity, oomph and presence overall and is so naturally better, but the Stax amps are excellent too.


 

 Would a 252 have enough drive for a (hungry) 007? I found some compression and loose bass. I would get him started though and great things around the corner with a better amp...


----------



## Earspeakers

astrostar59 said:


> Would a 252 have enough drive for a (hungry) 007? I found some compression and loose bass. I would get him started though and great things around the corner with a better amp...


 
  
 Loose base, less oomph, yes as I mentioned even the 323S suffers in the low end and power compared to a KGST/etc. I'd think it's due to the unregulated supplies they use in Stax amps to meet a price point. I think the amp circuit is quite good in Stax amps, there are certain minimums that all Stax headphone circuits generally follow. Where they fall down mostly is in the power supply I believe. 
  
 But like I say it's all better than magnetics IMO.


----------



## astrostar59

earspeakers said:


> Loose base, less oomph, yes as I mentioned even the 323S suffers in the low end and power compared to a KGST/etc. I'd think it's due to the unregulated supplies they use in Stax amps to meet a price point. I think the amp circuit is quite good in Stax amps, there are certain minimums that all Stax headphone circuits generally follow. Where they fall down mostly is in the power supply I believe.
> 
> But like I say it's all better than magnetics IMO.


 

 I agree. The PS in the Stax amps I have had (and popped the cover on) look a bit near the limits. My KGSShv has a Toroidy that is quite big, and the voltage swings are set at 450v / 10A.
 Also Stax amps are 100% margins when bought in the UK. So a good DIY can be had for more or less the cost of a new 727 or 007t IMO.
  
 My 717 amp is I am told a Kevin design that was more or less a success, although Stax tweaked the sound a bit. IMO Stax should get an amp out that does the 007/009 justice. It would be more expensive than the 727, maybe double at least, but remember the Orpheus system amp was around the price of a BHSE, bit more if I remember rightly. The point is there is a market out their for users who are not comfortable / in the market for DIY or taking any 'risks'. They prefer Finished Products at the dealers. That IMO is the market for such a top of the range Stax offering to sell alongside the 009s. Would it be tubes or SS. Dunno, SS may be less risky as regards warranty...


----------



## Earspeakers

astrostar59 said:


> I agree. The PS in the Stax amps I have had (and popped the cover on) look a bit near the limits. My KGSShv has a Toroidy that is quite big, and the voltage swings are set at 450v / 10A.
> Also Stax amps are 100% margins when bought in the UK. So a good DIY can be had for more or less the cost of a new 727 or 007t IMO.


 
  
 Well yes it's much more than the transformer of course, mainly the regulation
  


> My 717 amp is I am told a Kevin design that was more or less a success, although Stax tweaked the sound a bit. IMO Stax should get an amp out that does the 007/009 justice.


 
  
 According to the Stax factory tour writeup they're working on it, though I suspect that their owners (a Chinese consumer audio company) is encouraging them to also target the low end portable market, so no ETA. This year probably they'll be coming out with a couple 252 type amps.


----------



## Earspeakers

I have some of the old transformer bias Stax units I'd like to listen such as the SRD-4/7 etc (think Woo-Wee if you haven't seen them). However I don't have a power amp to drive them, any suggestions? I want something cheap and small, only for this application.


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## bearFNF

earspeakers said:


> I have some of the old transformer bias Stax units I'd like to listen such as the SRD-4/7 etc (think Woo-Wee if you haven't seen them). However I don't have a power amp to drive them, any suggestions? I want something cheap and small, only for this application.



I used a Toppings T32 for a while, it's pretty cheap, 15W, and it even has a remote.


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## Earspeakers

bearfnf said:


> I used a Toppings T32 for a while, it's pretty cheap, 15W, and it even has a remote.


 
  
 Thanks for the reply, but it looks like class T? I read a post by Birgir who said that class T amps wouldn't like driving these transformers (IIRC). Thoughts?


----------



## astrostar59

I would recommend a Musical Fidelity Class A SS power amp. I have had 3 in the past and they are great. 2 of the later ones I used with an SRD7 and the Lambda Nova Signatures. Sounded very good, great bass and dynamics.


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## astrostar59

I am sick......

  
 I can't stop buying stuff, well anyway I WAS going to get the 507s for my second system in the UK but couldn't resist getting the silver 007s instead. I had the black UK 007 MKII before I got my 009s, and even though the 007s were darker and slower than the 009s, I did like them a lot. Here are some of the plus points that swayed me as regards the 507 v 007s (my opinion).
  
 1. The bass is close to Planers
 2. They are quite forgiving (my DAC and Stax 717 is a bit brighter than in my main system)
 3. The ear cups sit over the ears as opposed to on, so my ears don't get so hot.
 4. They are more comfortable
 5. They are smoother with vocals and kinder in the highs, though I do admit to liking the Lambda presentation / soundstage.
 6. I like the look of them better than the 507s
 7. They are built better with more metal parts
 8. I can rest easy and not pander later on for the 007s.
 9. There is a carry / dust case
  
 So that is my logic, my wallet is now nackered, but my passion for music is greater than cars or food or pretty much anything else I can spend hard earned on..... Ha Ha.
  
 Anyway, there are a lot of guys on here that have heaps of Stax gear, so I am an amateur.....


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## bearFNF

earspeakers said:


> Thanks for the reply, but it looks like class T? I read a post by Birgir who said that class T amps wouldn't like driving these transformers (IIRC). Thoughts?


 

 Birgir probably has more refined taste in presentation than I do, unless he was trying to say they functionally don't like each other??? Not sure what he is talking about, it worked just fine for me for a few years, SRD7/SB with my Lambda Normal Bias. I even used an old Sony MHC-1500 (mini hifi compenent system) to drive the SRD7 for about five years back in college.
  
 I have also used my Woo WEE with the toppings and my Taboo MKIII all seem to work just fine.
 As far as how it (the toppings/srd7) sounds...whenever I brought the rig to a meet everyone seemed to like it, FWIW.
  
 I am getting a BHSE with normal bias and Pro bias (whenever it is done), so I will be able to do direct comparisons then. My view may change then I suppose.


----------



## bearFNF

astrostar59 said:


> 3. The ear cups sit over the ears as opposed to on, so my ears don't get so hot.


 
 Nice decision tree there.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ok, technically not a tree but...justification list??
 However, aren't both of these phones over ear?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what am I missing here???


----------



## preproman

Are those the 007As (MK II) or the 007s MKIs ?


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## astrostar59

bearfnf said:


> Nice decision tree there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The 007s are over ear, and the 507 sit on top. The cup size of the 007 also has a flat at the back to fit the ear shape. It makes a very good seal and improves bass response IMO.


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## HemiSam

The big shortfall with the 007 design IMO is that the cups do not rotate laterally, allowing them to adjust to the shape of the head.  Yes, the leather ear cushions themselves rotate around the cups and are shaped, but that is no substitute for being able to rotate the cup back and forth like any other headphone I own.  That's my only real complaint about them ergonomically and it's a pretty material one.
  
 HS


----------



## TheAttorney

You can bend the 007's front arcs such that the front of the cups move away or towards the front of head.
 Same applies to the rear arcs, but it's the front ones most people need to adjust, in most cases to bend the front away from the head for a looser fit. This typically sounds better, as well as getting a more comfortable fit for big headed people.


----------



## bearFNF

astrostar59 said:


> The 007s are over ear, and the 507 sit on top. The cup size of the 007 also has a flat at the back to fit the ear shape. It makes a very good seal and improves bass response IMO.


 

 Hmm, interesting I always thought the 507 were just like my Lambda NB, which are around the ears...
  
 Personally, I like the fit of the 009 the best. 007 are close second.


----------



## Lan647

bearfnf said:


> Hmm, interesting I always thought the 507 were just like my Lambda NB, which are around the ears...
> 
> Personally, I like the fit of the 009 the best. 007 are close second.




I second that. The 009 is the most comfortable STAX ever, and at least on the top 3 most comfortable headphones I've worn period. The 007 is really comfortable too but it's hard to get a great fit as there is not much flexibility in terms of earcup adjustment. And I prefer the fixed arc of the 009 as opposed to the self-adjusting headband of the 007. Sound wise I don't think it's as simple as the 009 being all together superior, but construction wise the 009 is much fancier and more ergonomic. 

Lambdas are also quite comfortable but they can touch your ears, as the earpads are smaller and shallower than those of the 007/009.


----------



## preproman

lan647 said:


> I second that. The 009 is the most comfortable STAX ever, and at least on the top 3 most comfortable headphones I've worn period. The 007 is really comfortable too but it's hard to get a great fit as there is not much flexibility in terms of earcup adjustment. And I prefer the fixed arc of the 009 as opposed to the self-adjusting headband of the 007. Sound wise I don't think it's as simple as the 009 being all together superior, but construction wise the 009 is much fancier and more ergonomic.
> 
> Lambdas are also quite comfortable but they can touch your ears, as the earpads are smaller and shallower than those of the 007/009.


 

 +1
  
 I wonder if anyone takes the round spring out of the 007s?  I prefer them that way more, less turning all the time and more fixed.


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## geemo4

Hello
  
 i am referring to an old post on page 53 of the former Stax Thread. May be somebody can help.
  
 Thread an post : (Its Post 791 by audiod)
http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/780#post_2785425
  
 Member "audiod" postet a "Stax High Voltage Supply" for normal and High Bias. I copied the circuit and build it on a new neutral circuit board.
  
 I have an Stax SRD-6/sb
  
http://bilder.hifi-forum.de/medium/526956/stax-srd-6-sb-schaltplan_559890.jpg
  
 Moreover i followed the instuction of a member and removed the speakeroutput part and connected the transformers directly. Also i placed a needed extra 230V~ cable from the outside and installed a main switch to  switch this 230V~.
  
 But then problems started. My local dealer didnt know what "audiod" ment with the Z1100. He knew it is a bidirectional diode but values ?? He gave me one and i tried it but i could only measure 100V LB and 200V HB. (I know that with the inner resistance of the Measurement tool it might be a little more in real but just about +1/3. And it sounded not good (distorted, no bass)
  
 Then i was exploring what was wrong:
  
 - Measured parallel after "my" Zenerdiode and got 55V (which again might be a lack of measurement tool)
 - Then i removed the Zener and wow - i got a klling maschine. 580V LB and 1000+ at the HB (measured at the connector)
  
 Knowing that this again might be more i might have 880V and 1000++
  
 I now run the maschine on the LB with 580V/880V (measured/real) which is at the edge of what my earspeakers can handle (SR-003).
  
 I´d really appreciate to come back to the diagram with an zener but with overall correct values. So - can anybody translate this (audiod´s) circuit diagramm to 230V~ input setting and tell me which Zener to use ? May be i have to change the place where i connect the LB/HB output part to the cascade tree ?
  
 I would like to have in the end a proper 230V and 580V probias"signal"
  
 Thanks


----------



## goobicii

did anybody heard Carbon or Cyclotron? I am really curious how it compares to T2 diy,BHSE and kgssHV


----------



## astrostar59

geemo4 said:


> Hello
> 
> i am referring to an old post on page 53 of the former Stax Thread. May be somebody can help.
> 
> ...


 

 You need to ask Kevin G and Birgir about this kind of 'advanced' DIY. Beware there are lethal voltages besides wrecking your Headphones. IMO you are insane for altering the bias current.....


----------



## astrostar59

goobicii said:


> did anybody heard Carbon or Cyclotron? I am really curious how it compares to T2 diy,BHSE and kgssHV


 

 Oooh ME TO!!. I have read on some posts 'at the other place'  that the Carbon may be better for the 009 than the KGSShv standard amplifier
 or maybe even the BHSE!! If this proves true it will be great for the Stax community, as clearly having a top of the tree SS Electrostatic amp alongside the BHSE / Eddie Current/WOO has to be a good thing. It's what keeps this community interesting IMO. Having said that, a factory produced Carbon will probably never happen, so it will not hit the mainstream Stax users who want to buy from dealers at demo's, rather the audiophiles on this forum and the other place.
  
 I am not a tech but as I understand it the Carbon uses radically different FETs on the output that can be run above 10A maybe up to 50A. Chime in if this is not the case folks. However that can't be the whole story, as I also read just adding more amperage capability does not guarantee better sound. 
  
 Of course, all this generates extra heat, even though the carbon can handle more, so it will no doubt get pretty hot, hotter than a KGSShv.
  
 And close to the power / voltage swings on the BHSE and closer to a valve output stage which dissipates it's heat from the tube. I find it dead interesting
 that we are talking about leading edge Carbon Fets and still asking if it is better than a 1930's EL34 tube Ha Ha. This hobby is so fascinating indeed.
  
 I would be interested in the Carbon if it was built by a good DIYer, and the casework was good.
 I don't have the knowledge to try a build myself. My respect to anyone who takes it on and wows everyone with the results. 
 I am sure once a few non builders buy one a review will pop up mighty quick, hopefully driving the 009s.
  
 KGSShv - Exciting times ahead then.


----------



## mulveling

LOL at "mainstream Stax users". I think there's enough production from Mjolnir Audio plus other smaller builders to satisfy demand for those looking to drive the 009 near its potential. The fit/finish and overall quality of these amps is excellent. Honestly the situation is FAR better than if there were commercial builders -- basically we're in small niche/community focusing on extremely high performance (best in the headphone world, really) at extremely low (if not altogether nonexistent) profit margins. What could be better than that? The other segments of the market can KEEP their commercial amp builders, and those under-engineered amps in pretty boxes for $5K+. With warranty! (i.e. you're guaranteed the same level of low-performance for X years)
  
 I agree the Carbon KGSShv is pretty exiting, and I'm already plenty happy with the KGSShv/KGST level of amps. Hope to hear one sometime.


----------



## goobicii

mulveling said:


> I agree the Carbon KGSShv is pretty exiting, and I'm already plenty happy with the KGSShv/KGST level of amps. Hope to hear one sometime.




and how about cyclotron? Kevin said it will be even better than carbon,everybody talks about carbon but not much talk going on about cyclotron.


Spitzer will make carbon for aproximately 5000 and cyclotron for 10000,cyclotron amps are fukin epic,like Ragnarok or that Atmasphere OTL triode amp,this will be first cyclotron electrostatic amp,i believe its going to be best esl amp ever made


----------



## paradoxper

goobicii said:


> and how about cyclotron? Kevin said it will be even better than carbon,everybody talks about carbon but not much talk going on about cyclotron.
> 
> 
> Spitzer will make carbon for aproximately 5000 and cyclotron for 10000,cyclotron amps are fukin epic,like Ragnarok or that Atmasphere OTL triode amp,this will be first cyclotron electrostatic amp,i believe its going to be best esl amp ever made


 
 You need to give it time. The Carbon boards are just being made for GB. Circlotron is down the line.


----------



## preproman

goobicii said:


> and how about cyclotron? Kevin said it will be even better than carbon,everybody talks about carbon but not much talk going on about cyclotron.
> 
> 
> Spitzer will make carbon for aproximately 5000 and cyclotron for 10000,cyclotron amps are fukin epic,like Ragnarok or that Atmasphere OTL triode amp,this will be first cyclotron electrostatic amp,i believe its going to be best esl amp ever made


 
  
 Ragnarok is Epic?? When did that happen?


----------



## goobicii

I want to know,whitch force falls of with distance less,HE 6 lcd 3 H1K with its magnetic force or stax sr 009 with its electrostatic force

for example lets theoreticaly imagime electromagmetic and electroststic driver of similiar size,peak to peak excursion 3mm...... now when that plastic diagram is at the peak of that peak 3mm excursion,its 3mm away from one of the stators,how much less force there is becose of that distance.... 90%? I have no idea,now the planar headphone,when its 3mm away same question,what is the force loss?

I dont know whitch one suffers less non linearity becose of peak distance from stator/magnet....



also if anybody knows whitch force have stronger grip om the diagram that I would also like to know


----------



## Michgelsen

Interesting question, but does it matter? When the diaphragm is farther away from one stator, it gets closer to the other one, balancing out the effect. Electrostatic earspeakers are always driven from both sides. From my limited physics knowledge, I recall that the electrostatic force decreases exponentially with increasing distance. Summing two opposing (if that's the right word) but otherwise similar exponential equations, you get a straight line, meaning that the increasing and decreasing forces from both stators are always balancing each other out. So, taking into account both stators acting on the diaphragm at the same time, there is no 'peak distance': the effective distance from the 'driving element' (= both stators) is always the same.
  
 Please correct me if I'm wrong!


----------



## Earspeakers

To know the answer to that question you'd have to have the physical dimensions of the two examples and calculate it, so basically don't bother; you can't know the answer. However you can bet that the engineers designed it for linear excursion through it's range (either the coil in the pole gap or the diaphragm between the stators.) 
  
 Taking a guess however, I'd think that any effects would be 2nd/more likely 3rd order ones from non-linearities coming from the spider/membrane edge. Given that the differential signal is inherently a better approach as Michgelsen says. Noise rejection doesn't matter at these signal levels, but you might expect that a push pull driver design performs better than any single ended. 
  
 To me the main difference is analogous to say transformer coupling versus capacitive coupling in electrical circuits. Transformers have a large effect on the sound and introduce all sorts of artifacts - like a magnetic driver. Caps also affect the sound, but to a much lesser degree. This is a false analogy so don't take it seriously, but it conveys the idea; the worst 'stat is better than the best magnet. 
  
 To my ears 'stats, like any Stax with a good amp, sounds like the membrane is just locked to the electrical signal. I mean we're talking several hundred volts, and that membrane doesn't have much to say about it. A magnetic driver sounds much looser to me, a lot of information is lost and some new artifacts added.


----------



## goobicii

earspeakers said:


> To know the answer to that question you'd have to have the physical dimensions of the two examples and calculate it, so basically don't bother; you can't know the answer. However you can bet that the engineers designed it for linear excursion through it's range (either the coil in the pole gap or the diaphragm between the stators.)
> 
> Taking a guess however, I'd think that any effects would be 2nd/more likely 3rd order ones from non-linearities coming from the spider/membrane edge. Given that the differential signal is inherently a better approach as Michgelsen says. Noise rejection doesn't matter at these signal levels, but you might expect that a push pull driver design performs better than any single ended.
> 
> ...




what planar headphome you had in mind? imo the he 6 is like electrostat with bass,its very fast it can go to 60000hz +..


----------



## kevin gilmore

michgelsen said:


> Electrostatic earspeakers are always driven from both sides.
> 
> Please correct me if I'm wrong!


 
 you are wrong. although I can only think of this one example, and if you have ever heard them,
 they are spectacular
  
 beveridge loudspeakers
  
 just a single diaphragm (albeit over 5 feet long) and a single stator.
  
 both the stator and the diaphragm are actively driven.
  
 then there is the acoustic lens...


----------



## AudioCats

evetan said:


> ....
> I think it would be kind of interesting to see Stax out of a, for example, SRM252 and see how that goes >.<. I can always get someone to build me a KGSSHV in the future, but as of now, I will have to use a loaner SRM252. Due to budget constraints.
> 
> ...


 
 some have mentioned that the 252 is the updated (read: using currently availalble devices) version of SRM-212. I don't have a 252, but with the 212, if you are willing to really pump up the output stage current, the sound opens up quite a bit. The factory setting is around 1.2mA (D4 voltage at 1.54V), increase it to 1.6mA (D4 voltage 1.8v) made almost no difference; push it further to 3.3mA (D4 at 3.1V) the sound stage opened up a bit, and it really opened up at 5.1mA (D4 at 4.5V). The price to pay is the voltage rails getting drag down a bit (1.2mA output stage (factory setting) -> +/-200v rails; 5.1mA output stage --> +/-170V rails), but if you don't listen too loud there is still plenty of voltage swing. I suppose one can try increasing the DC power input voltage to increase the HV rails back to +/-200v but I never bother to try that.
  
 Of course the eight 2sc5466's will get hot, heatsinks are mandatory ( I used some small clip-on heatsinks plus a small fan during testing). If this kind of mod is to be finalized, the 2sc5466's should be attached directly to the aluminum housing  in some way.


----------



## edstrelow

kevin gilmore said:


> you are wrong. although I can only think of this one example, and if you have ever heard them,
> they are spectacular
> 
> beveridge loudspeakers
> ...


 
 Some years ago I auditioned a cheap hybrid electrostatic speaker (don't recall the name but it was not Beveridge) which did not use 2 stators. It didn't sound too bad either. I also spent several years in an EE Department on a research project that built small electrostatic transducers that ran in the ultrasonic range. Again these did not use 2 stators.


----------



## astrostar59

audiocats said:


> some have mentioned that the 252 is the updated (read: using currently availalble devices) version of SRM-212. I don't have a 252, but with the 212, if you are willing to really pump up the output stage current, the sound opens up quite a bit. The factory setting is around 1.2mA (D4 voltage at 1.54V), increase it to 1.6mA (D4 voltage 1.8v) made almost no difference; push it further to 3.3mA (D4 at 3.1V) the sound stage opened up a bit, and it really opened up at 5.1mA (D4 at 4.5V). The price to pay is the voltage rails getting drag down a bit (1.2mA output stage (factory setting) -> +/-200v rails; 5.1mA output stage --> +/-170V rails), but if you don't listen too loud there is still plenty of voltage swing. I suppose one can try increasing the DC power input voltage to increase the HV rails back to +/-200v but I never bother to try that.
> 
> Of course the eight 2sc5466's will get hot, heatsinks are mandatory ( I used some small clip-on heatsinks plus a small fan during testing). If this kind of mod is to be finalized, the 2sc5466's should be attached directly to the aluminum housing  in some way.


 

 Noooooo, that looks like a great way to kill yourself Dude. Please take care, and also please be careful advising folk to do such a thing. Pro DIY'er maybe, but those voltages can stop a heart. Anyway, that could blow up the phones and will certainly kill any warranty, might kill your kids or the cat.... I understand you are no doubt very experienced in such mods, but that is a rare thing indeed.


----------



## kevin gilmore

all the bruel&kjaer electrostatic microphones are also single stator.
  
 but at least some of the Neumann electrostatic microphones are dual stator.


----------



## Earspeakers

Here's an oddball story ... I rescued a broken Normal Stax Sigma from eBay (turned out to be a fellow Head Fi member actually and came from here in the US). I had the drivers replaced with NOS Lambda drivers and fully restored, now it's a beautiful set. So wishing to have a backup/second pair, I bought a second Normal->Pro pair from another member who lives in France. Great! Two wonderful pairs, I'm set. 
  
 Imagine my surprise when I looked closer and noticed that the serial numbers are consecutive. Early, 1200 kind of numbers (I think Stax made a total of 9k-10k). So these headphones were together when manufactured at the Stax factory in Japan in the 60's probably, got sent around the world, used and loved by their owners, and somehow managed to end up in my hands together again. Odd coincidence.


----------



## wink

JPS Labs Abyss


> Proprietary planar magnetic transducer design (Patent Pending) utilizing our very thin, very low mass diaphragm. Amazing bandwidth and low level detail retrieval in the bass, mids, and highs. *No rear magnet structure typical of planar designs* eliminates annoying reflections from behind allowing for a completely open sound.


----------



## NoPants

audiocats said:


> some have mentioned that the 252 is the updated (read: using currently availalble devices) version of SRM-212. I don't have a 252, but with the 212, if you are willing to really pump up the output stage current, the sound opens up quite a bit. The factory setting is around 1.2mA (D4 voltage at 1.54V), increase it to 1.6mA (D4 voltage 1.8v) made almost no difference; push it further to 3.3mA (D4 at 3.1V) the sound stage opened up a bit, and it really opened up at 5.1mA (D4 at 4.5V). The price to pay is the voltage rails getting drag down a bit (1.2mA output stage (factory setting) -> +/-200v rails; 5.1mA output stage --> +/-170V rails), but if you don't listen too loud there is still plenty of voltage swing. I suppose one can try increasing the DC power input voltage to increase the HV rails back to +/-200v but I never bother to try that.
> 
> Of course the eight 2sc5466's will get hot, heatsinks are mandatory ( I used some small clip-on heatsinks plus a small fan during testing). If this kind of mod is to be finalized, the 2sc5466's should be attached directly to the aluminum housing  in some way.


 
 looks like you're better off just recasing the entire thing in something a bit more presentable
  
 will give you some surface to mount the 4686's to as well, and maybe you could upgrade the power supply
  
 sounds like I'm describing a kgss/hv unfrotunately


----------



## goobicii

why are electrostatic headphones tensioned very lightly so resonate at 50hz vs supertight tension of planar magnetic headphones that ring at 5000 to 8000hz


I asked it many times in many threads,so far nobody could answer whitch force is stronger,Tyll from innerfidelity said the magnetic force is much stronger in planar magnetic headphones like he 6 or lcd3 than stax sr 009 electrostatic force ... if the 009 was tensioned like planar it would loose the 50hz hump but it would not play loud enough and if you rise the juice you run into the plasma arc problem


----------



## Earspeakers

goobicii said:


> I asked it many times in many threads,so far nobody could answer whitch force is stronger,


 
  
 How high is up?
  


> Tyll from innerfidelity said the magnetic force is much stronger in planar magnetic headphones like he 6 or lcd3 than stax sr 009 electrostatic force


 
  
 lol ... yeah he doesn't know either


----------



## arnaud

goobicii said:


> why are electrostatic headphones tensioned very lightly so resonate at 50hz vs supertight tension of planar magnetic headphones that ring at 5000 to 8000hz
> 
> 
> I asked it many times in many threads,so far nobody could answer whitch force is stronger,Tyll from innerfidelity said the magnetic force is much stronger in planar magnetic headphones like he 6 or lcd3 than stax sr 009 electrostatic force ... if the 009 was tensioned like planar it would loose the 50hz hump but it would not play loud enough and if you rise the juice you run into the plasma arc problem




Don't confuse the first resonance of tensioned diaphragm with the famous "ortho" wall as these are two very different mechanisms.

Tensioned ortho diaphragms are loaded very similarly to stat diaphragms afaik. 50-75Hz "sealed" earpad resonance is typical. One big difference is that some of the orthos may not be as sensitive to breaking the seal because the (comparatively) much larger mass / stiffness of the tensioned membrane. 

Along the same line, you don't always see the 50-75Hz resonance because it's a couple mechanical/acoustic resonance of the diaphragm-earcup-earpad system so not just a single (damped) peak. As a matter of fact, a sealed system like most stats are orthos extends flat below even this first resonance.

Now, the ortho wall is something different alltogether and I am not sure you'll find anyone to tell you with exactitude the phenomenon. Maybe some smarty pants at audeze and somewhere else knows but does not tell. My hypothesis is that it's either acoustic resonances across the magnets slits or "pocket" modes between traces of the diaphragm or a combination of both.


----------



## AudioCats

astrostar59 said:


> Noooooo, that looks like a great way to kill yourself Dude. Please take care, and also please be careful advising folk to do such a thing. Pro DIY'er maybe, but those voltages can stop a heart. Anyway, that could blow up the phones and will certainly kill any warranty, might kill your kids or the cat.... I understand you are no doubt very experienced in such mods, but that is a rare thing indeed.


 

  aw!!
 how can you suggest such horrible possibility, all cats ought to be safe at all times!
  
 Anyway, the info I posted was intended to give somebody (who is already modding the stax amp) an idea on what to try, it certainly doesn't contain enough detail to make a beginner to want to do the mod.  The photo of the test rig was to show the kind of heatsink I was using, as there are many different kinds.
  
 As always, respect the voltage and observe all safety precautions ( like any high voltage tube amp ).


----------



## AudioCats

nopants said:


> looks like you're better off just recasing the entire thing in something a bit more presentable
> 
> will give you some surface to mount the 4686's to as well, and maybe you could upgrade the power supply
> 
> sounds like I'm describing a kgss/hv unfrotunately


 
  
 The photo was taken during the all-out experiment (main intention was to remove the 212's mid-rang glare), hence all the over sized stuff. Batteries for providing reference voltages, motor caps for HV rail. It was certainly not  to be used as-shown.
  
 I suppose all essential mods can be finalized and packed into the case of a 252. (Has to be a a 252, as its one-piece aluminum case can server as a large enough heatsink. The 212's thin sheet steel case doesn't cut it.) 
  
 5mA at the output stage is around the same level of what is in a 313, it might be enough to turn the 252 into a high power transportable amp (say, for car use, powered from the cigarette lighter socket), to drive something like the O2.


----------



## EveTan

audiocats said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > Noooooo, that looks like a great way to kill yourself Dude. Please take care, and also please be careful advising folk to do such a thing. Pro DIY'er maybe, but those voltages can stop a heart. Anyway, that could blow up the phones and will certainly kill any warranty, might kill your kids or the cat.... I understand you are no doubt very experienced in such mods, but that is a rare thing indeed.
> ...


 
 Haha, alot of times when I pop on here, it feels like everyone chatting is a professional DIY-er.


----------



## yawg

astrostar59 said:


> I would recommend a Musical Fidelity Class A SS power amp. I have had 3 in the past and they are great. 2 of the later ones I used with an SRD7 and the Lambda Nova Signatures. Sounded very good, great bass and dynamics.


 

 Yep, I got a pair of MF MA-50x, 50W Class A-ish and they sound superb, like good tubes. They go into A/B mode when driven hard but that won't happen with Staxen I guess.


----------



## NoPants

yawg said:


> Yep, I got a pair of MF MA-50x, 50W Class A-ish and they sound superb, like good tubes. They go into A/B mode when driven hard but that won't happen with Staxen I guess.


 
 I would advise against using the transformers to drive stax, has been discussed at length


----------



## goobicii

can you use speaker amp for Stax? becose the electrostatic speakers like SoundLab and Martin Logan use normal speaker amps and not special ones like electrostatic headphones.... image some big 1000w Krell,could that power the SR-009?


----------



## NoPants

not about the power


----------



## edstrelow

goobicii said:


> can you use speaker amp for Stax? becose the electrostatic speakers like SoundLab and Martin Logan use normal speaker amps and not special ones like electrostatic headphones.... image some big 1000w Krell,could that power the SR-009?


 
 You'll still need a transformer between the amp terminals and the headphones. electrostatic speakers will; have these in already.   There are various  adapter boxes for this purpose.  Stax stopped making them years ago but I know that Woo makes one.


----------



## kevin gilmore

the krell master reference amps will do about 400 vpp and would drive the stax directly (add bias)
  
 a bit expensive, big,heavy, no longer made, and when they were, about $110k per pair
  
 acoustat had direct drive tube amps capable of about 5kvpp


----------



## milosz

earspeakers said:


> Here's an oddball story ... I rescued a broken Normal Stax Sigma from eBay (turned out to be a fellow Head Fi member actually and came from here in the US). I had the drivers replaced with NOS Lambda drivers and fully restored, now it's a beautiful set. So wishing to have a backup/second pair, I bought a second Normal->Pro pair from another member who lives in France. Great! Two wonderful pairs, I'm set.
> 
> Imagine my surprise when I looked closer and noticed that the serial numbers are consecutive. Early, 1200 kind of numbers (I think Stax made a total of 9k-10k). So these headphones were together when manufactured at the Stax factory in Japan in the 60's probably, got sent around the world, used and loved by their owners, and somehow managed to end up in my hands together again. Odd coincidence.


 
  
  
*                  "Offered for your consideration......"*


----------



## milosz

kevin gilmore said:


> you are wrong. although I can only think of this one example, and if you have ever heard them,
> they are spectacular
> 
> beveridge loudspeakers
> ...


 
 According to the Beveridge web site, Beveridge speakers have two stators and one diaphragm like most ESL's http://www.bevaudio.com/technical_details.html.  
  
  
 There are single-stator electrostats that are driven single-ended.  For treble not really bad, but for lower frequencies- not so linear.  Treble is high enough you probably can't hear the harmonics of the distortion and large excursions are not required anyway.  But getting down into the midrange and certainly the bass, you WILL hear the THD and  the lower you go the more the diaphragm needs to move... and with a single stator, since electrostatic force falls off at the square of the distance, the relationship between diaphragm movement and applied voltage is not linear. With small excursions it's close enough to linear, but farther away- not so much.  In a two-stator design as the diaphragm moves away from one stator it is moving closer to the other, and assuming the diaphragm is exactly centered when at rest, and the stator-to-diaphragm spacing is the same all over the diaphragm for both stators, well, that's a pretty linear transducer.  As long as charge mobility on the diaphragm is kept to a minimum.... there's quite a few things to consider in order to make a GOOD electrostat.
  
 I think there have been single-stator electrostatic headphones, I seem to recall  Supraphon were made this way but maybe my memory has suffered cosmic ray damage.
  
 I think the old Realistic "add on" electrostatic tweeter, and the tweeters in the Realistic Electrostat 2A speaker were single ended.  Cheaper to make.
  
 A fair number of German tube tabletop radios from the 1950's had electrostatic tweeters. Grundig, Siemens, Normende, possibly others.  I think Zenith also had some...  these little jobs were single-stator I believe and I  **THINK** they were driven right off of a tube's plate. Single-stator designs tend to have more THD but if you're crossing over at 6 KHz the lowest harmonic is 12 kHz so not SUCH a big deal, especially for listening to a tabletop radio.  Also, as long as the diaphragm excursion isn't too great the thing will be fairly linear. 
  
 Generally speaking the highs produced by these radios were pretty nice. Not "high end" by any stretch of the imagination, but _Schön für Vater und Mutter und die Kinder im Wohnzimmer am Sonntag zu hören._
  
 Some Philco hi-fi sets also had electrostatic tweeters, again single-stator I believe. They had a 15" woofer driven mono and two "satellites" consisting of small oval speakers (2 x 4"?)  in little enclosures topped by a curved electrostatic tweeter.  I've seen these but never heard one that still worked.  
  
 They looks like Quads but not nearly so large - these would fit on a bookshelf.


----------



## jcx

I've seen a JAES article on a single ended curved ES full range panel that put a small electrode out front of the membrane as a sensor for diaphragm displacement feedback - gave documented harmonic reduction
  
 don't think it was ever comerciallized


----------



## astrostar59

nopants said:


> I would advise against using the transformers to drive stax, has been discussed at length


 

 Hi NoPants
 I am interested in this subject. Do you have a post link to the discussion?
  
 I heard that 'possibly' a Woo Wee may be one of the guilty parties?


----------



## milosz

jcx said:


> I've seen a JAES article on a single ended curved ES full range panel that put a small electrode out front of the membrane as a sensor for diaphragm displacement feedback - gave documented harmonic reduction
> 
> don't think it was ever comerciallized


 
 Oh yeah I think that would work.  Less costly to build I think. Getting the diaphragm spacing right for two stators over a large area takes precision, which costs money especially for production R&D and tooling.


----------



## AudioCats

astrostar59 said:


> Hi NoPants
> I am interested in this subject. Do you have a post link to the discussion?
> 
> I heard that 'possibly' a Woo Wee may be one of the guilty parties?


 
  
 hmm, how is a WEE bad? It is not that different from a Stax box.
  
 Interested in a link as well.  Or a google search phrase.


----------



## NoPants

i was saying both the woo and stax transformers are not that great. there are posts in this thread and probably the earlier ones that show the waveforms that come out of a transformer box.

in the interest of preserving the integrity of my ad I'm going to dump info here about the megatron compared to the kgst kgsshv and bhse


----------



## richard51

nopants said:


> i was saying both the woo and stax transformers are not that great. there are posts in this thread and probably the earlier ones that show the waveforms that come out of a transformer box.
> 
> in the interest of preserving the integrity of my ad I'm going to dump info here about the megatron compared to the kgst kgsshv and bhse


 

 if the woo wee is so bad how do you explain the results in this thread ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/681814/amplifiers-shootout-for-stax-009-eddie-current-electra-audiovalve-rkv-wooaudio-wee-stax-srm727-srm007t2


----------



## arnaud

richard51 said:


> if the woo wee is so bad how do you explain the results in this thread ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No need to wear a helmet, you can simply ask the participants of the test how confident they are with the results and how much they trust the interpretation that was made of the results...
  
 BTW, some people do actually like what transformer boxes do to the SR009 but there's a reason why Stax stopped over 30 years ago. 
  
 Talking about amp comparisons, I forgot to link here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/612247/eddie-current-electra-electrostatic-amplifier/435#post_11730747
  
 See also earlier post from Anakchan in that thread. Hopefully, @Donnyhifi will post his impressions at some point.
  
 cheers,
 arnaud


----------



## richard51

arnaud said:


> No need to wear a helmet, you can simply ask the participants of the test how confident they are with the results and how much they trust the interpretation that was made of the results...
> 
> BTW, some people do actually like what transformer boxes do to the SR009 but there's a reason why Stax stopped over 30 years ago.
> 
> ...


 

 thanks very much for your  helpful point... i am intered by the woo wee ....i keep off my helmet i salute you ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 i cannot afford higher price amp and i want to try woo wee with a thousand dollars amp..... perhaps the microzotl...but almost nobody know this amp i think....


----------



## thinker

thinker said:


> That was two years ago, Malvalve was slightly better than Stax amp (007) it had nice soundstage otherwise typical tube amp.Verto has wide tubelike soundstage with blackest background (no tube noise or AC) dead silent and allows to hear better inner dimensions or distance between instruments especially deepness. Verto is sweet and liquid and has complete absence of harsh or hot treble wich is good for SR-009 and Lambda Pro signature.I can't hear any areas wich is pronounced from bass to highs this is not the case with many tube amps Verto is linear but it has tube like signature it's a nice mix.Verto is more dynamic than Malvalve or like a typical tube amp it has Solid State dynamics and speed for instance guitar strings are lightning fast and when they pop up from black ground you get the real feel.Vertos soundstage is like a perfect cube all directions are equal you hear it on SR-009 better than on Lambdas.I tried different amps with Verto on reverse config. and there exists minimal difference don't know if it is caused by the feeding current.On stringed instruments you hear the complite doppler effect symmetrical waves without blockage or bias in notes this is the case where most amps fail .When hearing Verto first time you will notice at first the open wide soundstage and secondly the sweetness of tones.
> 
> Verto
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, the Verto needs power at least 100W i have to correct myself by this finding,10-60W is not enough.I was rolling amps and found the ML 27.5 to be excellent match,actually i have never heard Staxes sound this good.The old Stax Lambda Signature sounds phenomenal smooth with very large soundstage ,the SR-009 sounds also phenomenal smooth without any harshness ,very dynamic tight bass and with excellent imaging and airiness and I think no planars or dynamic headphone can reach this level.The ML/Verto combo is way above any Stax amps.I use only silver symmetrical 6N cabling


----------



## NoPants

definitely need the 6n cabling, better rewire your amplifier with it too, and your house grid


----------



## wink

And it definitely needs power from a nuclear reactor instead of a coal burner or hydroelectric  etc.
  
 Wind turbines cause too much sinewave distortion due to vane flexing under load.......


----------



## milosz

wink said:


> And it definitely needs power from a nuclear reactor instead of a coal burner or hydroelectric  etc.
> 
> Wind turbines cause too much sinewave distortion due to vane flexing under load.......


 
 I actually read a post on Audiokarma or Audio Asylum or Audio-whatever where a guy claimed that the best sound was achieved using power from hydroelectric generation.... power from nuke plants "added grain"   
  
 RE: six nines copper or silver cabling: ask the manufacturer for a copy of the independent assay - traceable to NIST of course-  that shows it's six nines purity.  They can't provide anything of the sort, because claims of six nines purity are so much horse-hockey.


----------



## Pokemonn

Hi all! sorry for my bad english.
 I have read a rumor which say STAX is currently designing a special amp for SR-009.
 Is that rumor real?!?!Have you ever heard rumor something like that?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## astrostar59

pokemonn said:


> Hi all! sorry for my bad english.
> I have read a rumor which say STAX is currently designing a special amp for SR-009.
> Is that rumor real?!?!Have you ever heard rumor something like that?
> 
> Thanks!


 
 A very intesting question, and one many here will be hot on. I have read posts that were rumours, not seen any definites, someone else may know. It would be great to see Stax make an amp to match the heady heights of the 009, or dare I say unleash the potential of the 009. The price may be the issue.
  
 Aside from the fairly healthy DIY stat amp community, for me it would be great to get a top amp out into the mainstream i.e. in the demo rooms. It would promote the top end of this hobby to the masses IMO which is good to possibly bring the prices down, that is if Stax can handle any increase in volumes?


----------



## Pokemonn

astrostar59 said:


> A very intesting question, and one many here will be hot on. I have read posts that were rumours, not seen any definites, someone else may know. It would be great to see Stax make an amp to match the heady heights of the 009, or dare I say unleash the potential of the 009. The price may be the issue.
> 
> Aside from the fairly healthy DIY stat amp community, for me it would be great to get a top amp out into the mainstream i.e. in the demo rooms. It would promote the top end of this hobby to the masses IMO which is good to possibly bring the prices down, that is if Stax can handle any increase in volumes?


 

 Thank you astrostar59 for reply!
 anyway I will telephone call to STAX Japanese HQ today to confirm that rumor is whether true or not.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## uchihaitachi

pokemonn said:


> Thank you astrostar59 for reply!
> anyway I will telephone call to STAX Japanese HQ today to confirm that rumor is whether true or not.
> 
> Thanks!


 
 Do let us know!!!


----------



## astrostar59

pokemonn said:


> Thank you astrostar59 for reply!
> anyway I will telephone call to STAX Japanese HQ today to confirm that rumor is whether true or not.
> 
> Thanks!


 
 I hope you get some info. I doubt very much Stax will admit anything before it is ready for release, as it will affect sales of the rest of their amps and their new amp (if it ever existed) may not be ready or good enough for release yet. They got burned with the T2..... It could be an interest check? Who knows? Stax do but we won't know until it is out I reckon.


----------



## Pokemonn

Hi astrostar59 and uhihaitachi!
 I did telephone to STAX Japanese HQ sales department today.
 They say that new amp for 009 are currently under development. They admitted it.
 I asked about price and tube or SS etc? STAX said specifications are still unknown!
 but some Japanese rumors say special amps price will hit between 500K yen to 1000K yen and released late 2015?!
 anyway STAX recommend to purchase current amps such SRM-007tA and SRM-727A.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## wink

Quote:astrostar59 





> They got* burned *with the T2.....


 
 Those amps got more than hot enough to burn anyone except, perhaps, Asbestos Man.


----------



## wink

Quoteokemonn 





> but some Japanese rumors say special amps price will hit between 500K yen to 1000K yen and released late 2015?!


 
 So, ballpark figure is between US$4000 to US$9000.......


----------



## astrostar59

wink said:


> So, ballpark figure is between US$4000 to US$9000.......


 
 Sounds about right. The BHSE is US$5600 and WOO WES bit more. If it is valve it will be head to head against those amps.
 If SS it will pitch against the LL2. Excluding the DIY market which is different.
  
 I think if they make one AND it is really good, it can be only good news for the Stat market. It is very niche this high end stuff, and a top amp sat in a demo room will suck newbies in, increase sales volumes and promote more products to market, even if Stax can't make them any faster. It may even push Senn to do a new top end system Ha Ha, that would really hot up this hobby!!!!
  
 I must admit, I was nervous buying a KGSShv as DIY, it is a leap of faith. I don't regret it one bit, but many simply won't do that. It iOS the same in the DIY tube amp mart, kit or DIY products appeal to a niche, as some just don't feel comfortable.
  
 Thinking about it, I would be surprised if Stax go for a 'big valve' amp like an EL34. Also will it be SS for simplicity and warranty? Interesting subject!!!!!!!


----------



## astrostar59

*007A's are back in the house*

  

  
 Ha Ha, I now have a spare setup with the 007A's. I used to have a MK2 pair last year for my main system, but had to trade them in to get the 009s. BUT I have since managed to scrape the funds together to get some 007A's from PJ. They just arrived this morning.
 No issues with imbalance, box was sealed, no damage to outer carton. Communication from Kanada at PJ was incredible, replies to my email (UK time) was 15 minutes average. No import duty.
  
 So very happy.
  
 Back to the sound. I have had a year with my 009s and a KGSShv and my Audio Note DAC 4.1 at home in Spain. Back at my parents now in the UK for a few months,  I have an SRM-717 and a little Metrum Octave II DAC fed by a MacBook Pro and Audirvana+ direct (no iTunes).
  
 Well, an hour in, all I can say is NICE. Very happy. Yes, not the 009 detail, a bit slower, bass not as textured, soundstage smaller, a bit more asleep, bit darker and further back from the stage. BUT still very very good. If I didn't have the 009s I would feel I am not missing much, and this is a setup I could live with. It has a nice happy sound to it, foot tapping, easy going, dunno, it is hard to describe. There is a bit missing in the last bit of detail and ambiance to the 009, it is just a more relaxed sound, bit like our Rough Collie who looks as beautiful as our Border Collie, just doesn't go as fast! Maybe that is not a problem? The 007s certainly satisfy a lot and tick most of my boxes. I am unsure if Stax has changed the MK2s in the last 3 years? Anyway I think these sound the same as my last pair which were 2012 and the Black export model.
  
 I think the 007s are great for a huge variety of systems IMO, because they are very forgiving. Yes they can give more with a BHSE or KGSShv and other amps, but in real world priced systems and with a 717 or 727 they fit so well, no fatigue. I know many on here will not like this, but I really think Stax designed this in in IMO. Many modern DACs are detail detail detail but to get that to sound right (no fatigue) the rest of the gear needs to bring it back to reality, less 'hifi' more organic or it can sound cold and plastic. IMO the 007 does this very well.
  
 I am even more convinced now that many of the complaints against the 009s are problems residing in other parts of the system, or at least bright DACs or amps. IMO the 009s are so good and so front row, all is apparent, any weaknesses are right there, bit like when you plaster a ceiling on an evening and it looks fine, but the morning sun comes up and it shows all the lumps and bumps, the 009s do that, it is all there. The 009s to me are a 507 sound on steroids, more advanced but very alive. The 007s are in another direction for Stax. Still, it gives that choice for audiophiles, what suits there system and tastes.
  
 I can see why some here have a cluster of phones, none Stat even. It is kinda nice to have that option. 
 I agree with some comments here that your brain needs time to adjust to a phone at this level. I was not madly in love with the 009s off the bat I have to admit. I liked them a lot but was nervous for a while about the kind of presentation, it seems to be going back to Lambda days but without the treble etch. After a few weeks that was forgotten. I got to handle the information and live with it, it can be overwhelming until you get used to it I think. If you  are into photography for example, you tend to 'see' more in your environment, because you are actively looking for it. With the 007s or 009s you learn to do that and become experts. I have seen none Stat users who demo gear and just don't get it. Not exciting, no big deal, unrealistic. I think many folk are used to happy 'V' profile IEMs, one note unrealistic bass levels with no detail in it - budget headphones, they expect more of that. It is not like real music. To me the 007s and 009s are as real as I have heard aside from Live music events.
  
 Sum up, I love both the 007 and 009!
  
 Fascinating hobby.
  
 BTW using Audirvana+ direct without the iTunes database over the top of it for me is a jump in SQ, more detail and smoother sound. And it costs nothing (once you bought the software that is).


----------



## Earspeakers

Stax is working on releasing a couple of low end amps for portable/computer desktop Stax use, probably this year. 
  
 The 009 matched amp has been in the works for some time, it's been mentioned here and there. Curious what they will do, surely
  

Regulated B+/HV
Regulated bias PS (not like some of the goofy things they do, I couldn't even get a measure of the bias voltage on my 323S)
Tube output/EL34 - most likely. High end stuff has tubes for show and EL34's are current production
Silicon front stage - yeah of course
  
 I'd be surprised if it wasn't a BHSE type unit with a more complicated circuit


----------



## Arthrumus

What's up guys, I have been lurking here on head-fi for years and I finally decided to make an account the other day. I have a question for you Stax experts. I recently picked up an SRM-1/MK2 amplifier on ebay to replace my SRD-6/T-amp combo for driving my SR5s. It was supposed to be a normal bias amp, but when I looked under the hood I found that it has the Pro Bias circuit area silk screened onto the board, and it appears to be fully populated with components. The only thing it doesn't have is a wire running to either of the sockets up front. I went ahead and posted a video to YouTube about it which will show what I'm talking about.
  

  
 I'm curious if any of you have seen this before, and if it was something that Stax did at the factory, possibly for some late model normal bias amps? 
  
 Also I went ahead and checked the voltage off of R304 on the Pro Bias circuit and found it to read 478V instead of the 580V I was expecting. Am I missing something here? I would like the option to upgrade this amp to pro bias if I ever pick up some pro bias headphones. Also where do I probe to check the normal bias voltage. Even though the amp sounds great to my ear, this pro bias voltage discrepancy has me worried about it's health in general. Any opinions would be appreciated.


----------



## fire2368

I'm looking for a second headphone to pair with my Abyss and I'm thinking on going to its polar opposite and getting the SR-009. I don't have the money to go out and buy a full stax set at the moment, but what I can do is get a Woo Wee + SR-009, I'm probably going to pair it with the Schiit Ragnarok or my Pass Labs INT-30a. Does anyone have any input on this, am I wasting my money buying the SR-009 if its going to be paired with the Woo Wee?


----------



## astrostar59

fire2368 said:


> I'm looking for a second headphone to pair with my Abyss and I'm thinking on going to its polar opposite and getting the SR-009. I don't have the money to go out and buy a full stax set at the moment, but what I can do is get a Woo Wee + SR-009, I'm probably going to pair it with the Schiit Ragnarok or my Pass Labs INT-30a. Does anyone have any input on this, am I wasting my money buying the SR-009 if its going to be paired with the Woo Wee?


 
 It depends. I have read some issues with the Woo Wee, you might need to do your own research. Also obviously the quality you would get will be dependent on the power amplifier quality and type. I would say if you can see a time soon to be able to afford a Stax 727 or DIY stat amp, or even a BHSE then get the 009s. If not, I think you would be better getting a current SR-007 (which is really good) and get a 727. That will get you closer to the Abyss (though I haven't heard the Abyss, only read reviews).
  
 The problem is the 009 is so good, IMO the best headphone available period - you have to face spending on a very good Stat amp as well. It is not going to get there without that. The other thing IMO is the 009 is so transparent (not bright or harsh but is revealing) it will expose any issues in the rest of your system. The 007 on the other hand is very forgiving but less transparent in Stat terms. We are talking high end here, IMO the 007 and 009 beat pretty conventional phones hands down, it is the last bit of SQ that 007 and 009 users are after (and get).
  
 If you got an 007 and 727, you could trade in later for an 009 when you can afford a Stat amp to do it justice.


----------



## preproman

fire2368 said:


> I'm looking for a second headphone to pair with my Abyss and I'm thinking on going to its polar opposite and getting the SR-009. I don't have the money to go out and buy a full stax set at the moment, but what I can do is get a Woo Wee + SR-009, I'm probably going to pair it with the Schiit Ragnarok or my Pass Labs INT-30a. Does anyone have any input on this, am I wasting my money buying the SR-009 if its going to be paired with the Woo Wee?


 
  
 I had the 009 / INT-30A / Woo Wee setup for a few months, until I got the KGST.  It was solid and well worth it.  Just use the wee as a stop gap with plans on getting a better amp down the road.  I haven't heard the Rag so I won't coment on it.


----------



## richard51

the price of all your amps are to high for me..... i will try with the stax+ the microzotl 2 directly from the speakers taps with a woo wee....and a high power supply ( http://www.mojo-audio.com/joule-v-power-supply/  ) total cost : 2,600 dollars for all + the cost of the stax..... I bet on the microzotl2 because of the designer ....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and the price....


----------



## NoPants

that power supply looks pretty silly
  
 I've been interested in the original zotl but I'm not sure how well contained the hf modulation is


----------



## richard51

nopants said:


> that power supply looks pretty silly
> 
> I've been interested in the original zotl but I'm not sure how well contained the hf modulation is


 

 i dont know for that but Bernings is a physicist who design tube amps for 50 years by himself and by his hand...that says a story about his design... His design is not an engineering variation as good as it be ....its a complete new concept of tube amp ...at 1100 dollars when i look the competition.... there is none.....this is not supposed to be a very good amp but one of the best in the world ratio quality /price.... i have no doubt that perhaps the viva egoista at 12000 is better but by what margin ?


----------



## NoPants

I wasn't saying anything about the berning amplifier just that power supply you linked. I've also looked at the berning zotl 1 some years back, as it seemed like an interesting design. Nothing "completely new" but certainly a fresh approach.


----------



## richard51

nopants said:


> I wasn't saying anything about the berning amplifier just that power supply you linked. I've also looked at the berning zotl 1 some years back, as it seemed like an interesting design. Nothing "completely new" but certainly a fresh approach.


 

 i dont critisize you , i want to make a point....known


----------



## mulder01

I think I saw a Stax fan in the traffic this morning....


----------



## catspaw

Hi guys, quick question:
 The stax sets, 2170, 3170, 4170.... there is no 5170, right?
  
 The price seem to differ quite a lot, and from waht I understand they all use the same driver.
 Is the price difference only in the AMP and the materials used around the driver for the HPs?


----------



## wink

> Also I went ahead and checked the voltage off of R304 on the Pro Bias circuit and found it to read 478V instead of the 580V


 
 If you checked it with a normal multimeter, then it seems about right.


----------



## Arthrumus

wink said:


> If you checked it with a normal multimeter, then it seems about right.


 
 Sweet! So if I want to upgrade one of the sockets to pro bias all I need to do is run a new wire from that contact?


----------



## astrostar59

*Music software*
*Sorry, new subject and may need to post in Computer Audio BUT!*
  
 I posted on computeraudiophile and asked Damian who makes the Audirvana+ software when his IOS remote will be out. He is working on it now, and has been for a few months. It will be out soon, but I am trying to get an ETA.
  
 A few things I have worked out based on using my 009s and KGSShv. Two years back I used a CEC belt drive transport which was silly money at the time, then I moving to the Mac Mini. Lets me rate these changes in the front end as part of an ultimate 100 score not yet achieved to leave room for new developments. The ratings below are using a separate DAC and SPDIF input with M2Tech 3 box USB convertor.
  
 1. CD transport v iTunes is I would say Transport = 70, iTunes = 65.
  
 2. Mac mini with Audirvana+ 1.5 and iTunes underneath (using iTunes to show albums and find the tracks but Audirvana+ to play them in a window over the top = 75
  
 3. Audirvana+ new version 2.0 with Audirvana+ and iTunes underneath = 78
  
 4. Audirvana+ 2.0 standalone i.e. all other software closed down, and Audirvana+ showing albums in it's own window (this is a recent feature not possible in version 1.5) = 85
  
 As you can see, dropping my transport and using the Mac Mini plus Audirvana+ & iTunes integrated gave me a jump from 65 to 75. This is why I raved about it and was so excited to get a Mac Mini.
  
 However going without iTunes at all is another big leap as big as before. The biggest change to the sound is clarity in complex passages, I can hear separate instruments better. Also the treble is much cleaner and contains even more separation and detail (but is not elevated as in more treble level). The bass is faster and more textured, and vocal are more natural and the voices sound closer to reality - less hi-fi.
  
 How it this happening? It is because Audirvana+ has hard wired itself to Apple Core Audio, there is less processing path to get to your amp and phones, it is a layer removed (iTunes is GONE).
  
 The jump from 75 to 85 has made my second system I am using now (007A and Stax 717) a mini version of my 009 system, not as good, but closer and very very enjoyable. Remember I am on the 007 powered by the 717 amp. 
  
 I haven't heard my 009s and KGSShv with Audirvana+ standalone yet, only as iTunes integrated. So I expect to be blown away when I try that in September. Exciting.
  
 Here is my main system but using Audirvana+ in iTunes integrated mode.
  
 I know this applies to any music system not just Stax systems, but the 007s and 009s dig out so much information, it is crucial in my view to get all the layers off and get closer to the source.
  

  
 I bought my current 007As from PJ and got them last week. They are an improvement over my previous 007MK2.5s which were a 2012 model. They sound cleaner and faster, less bass bloat, which makes me think Stax has (again) tweaked the drivers. I am not complaining.....


----------



## Jones Bob

OT reply to astrostar59:
Be sure to try using each USB port to your DAC for best SQ. 
On my 2013 mini, works best on the USB closest to the Thunderbolt ports.


----------



## Rayzilla

I have an interest in getting a mid-level electrostatic headphone system. The three systems that I have found used are as follows:
 1) Stax SR-407 with SRM-323s (110v) 
 2) Stax SR-407 with SRM-006ts (100v)
 3) Kingsound KS-H3 with M-10 (110v)
  
 Now that I am living in Hong Kong, I will need to get a step-up transformer for these systems. Is there any risks/drawbacks to using transformers, i.e. failure leading to frying the system, sound issues?
  
 The 006ts system will cost about $300 more than the 323s system but many members on here seem to favour the 323s over the 006ts. To give you an idea of my sound preference, my favourite headphone by far right now is the HD 800. There is almost nothing that I do not like about the HD 800, including the treble. I easily chose it over the HE1000 because of the treble, which I found to be not as present in the HE1000. This is the reason why I chose not to consider the SR-007, based on my research.
  
 Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## NoPants

No risks to using transformers they just sound bad
  
 get the 323s over the 006, it will scale better if you like what you hear and decide to upgrade


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Finally got my SRM-727II modded.
  
 First impressions :
 - no more issue finding the "right" volume. There's something shouty but dynamically compressed with the stock amp, you push up the volume, then you turn it down gradually because of this harshness
 - as a consequence, the low gain of the amp is more audible. Avoid RCA with 2V only
 - finally a tight control with my Sigma's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sound has lost some of its "Beats" characteristics...still loudness FR, but far less mud around music
 - yeah, it's a bit on the warm side compared to my SRM-1/mk2, but I like it.
  
 Ali


----------



## VandyMan

>>No risks to using transformers they just sound bad

 I think it would be more accurate to say that they don't sound as good as the best electrostatic amps. How a transformer sounds would presumably be heavily dependent on the amp driving it.


----------



## Rayzilla

What about the the step-up transformer that I would connect the Stax amp to because the amp is 110v but the voltage in Hong Kong is 220V? 

And would the Stax 407 work with the new Kingsound portable amp?


----------



## jcx

what's difficult is a full audio bandwidth 20 Hz-20 kHz transformer with high step up ratio with low distortion - won't come cheap at half decent quality due to core materials and exotic (labor intensive) winding techniques
  
  
 the 50/60 Hz mains power step up transformer could improve your system with better rejection of mains noise


----------



## John Buchanan

nopants said:


> No risks to using transformers they just sound bad
> 
> get the 323s over the 006, it will scale better if you like what you hear and decide to upgrade


 

 Simply not true.


----------



## AudioCats

rayzilla said:


> I have an interest in getting a mid-level electrostatic headphone system. The three systems that I have found used are as follows:
> 1) Stax SR-407 with SRM-323s (110v)
> 2) Stax SR-407 with SRM-006ts (100v)
> 3) Kingsound KS-H3 with M-10 (110v)
> ...


 
 you need a step-_*down*_ transformer to drop the voltage from 220 to 110.


----------



## AudioCats

catspaw said:


> Hi guys, quick question:
> The stax sets, 2170, 3170, 4170.... there is no 5170, right?
> 
> The price seem to differ quite a lot, and from waht I understand they all use the same driver.
> Is the price difference only in the AMP and the materials used around the driver for the HPs?


 

 207 drivers are reported to be different;
 307/407 drivers are reported to be the same; cables are different
 507.... who knows, maybe the driver is the same as 407, but maybe not.


----------



## Rayzilla

audiocats said:


> you need a step-_*down*_ transformer to drop the voltage from 220 to 110.



Thanks for the correction. Do these transformers affect the sound? How much are these and are there good ones/brands versus bad ones/brands? Do they ever fail and then cause damage to the audio equipment?


----------



## catspaw

audiocats said:


> 207 drivers are reported to be different;
> 307/407 drivers are reported to be the same; cables are different
> 507.... who knows, maybe the driver is the same as 407, but maybe not.


 
 Can you point me to your source of information?
 I get conflicting information in this regard.


----------



## Pokemonn

astrostar59 said:


> *Music software*
> *Sorry, new subject and may need to post in Computer Audio BUT!*
> 
> I posted on computeraudiophile and asked Damian who makes the Audirvana+ software when his IOS remote will be out. He is working on it now, and has been for a few months. It will be out soon, but I am trying to get an ETA.
> ...


 
  
 Hi astrostar59!
 I confirmed your mention on Audirvana+. Audirvana sure did improves my 009 sound. makes much wider soundstage and clarity etc.
 Thank you for your information! astrostar59 you help me lot!


----------



## Rayzilla

rayzilla said:


> I have an interest in getting a mid-level electrostatic headphone system. The three systems that I have found used are as follows:
> 1) Stax SR-407 with SRM-323s (110v)
> 2) Stax SR-407 with SRM-006ts (100v)
> 3) Kingsound KS-H3 with M-10 (110v)
> ...



I've been doing some more reading... Original plan was to upgrade my amplifier for the HD 800 with something like the Ragnarok. Now I am considering passing on the amp, and instead of going mid level on the Stax as mentioned above, go all the way to the 009 but that means I will have to settle for something like the SRM-007tII. 

Will I be satisfied with the 407 and 323s if my primary HP now is the HD 800?


----------



## preproman

rayzilla said:


> I've been doing some more reading... Original plan was to upgrade my amplifier for the HD 800 with something like the Ragnarok. Now I am considering passing on the amp, and instead of going mid level on the Stax as mentioned above, go all the way to the 009 but that means I will have to settle for something like the SRM-007tII.
> 
> Will I be satisfied with the 407 and 323s if my primary HP now is the HD 800?


 
  
 If you go the 009 route would an amp like the KGST for around $2K to $2.5K fit in the budget?


----------



## negura

preproman said:


> If you go the 009 route would an amp like the KGST for around $2K to $2.5K fit in the budget?


 
  
 I'd also suggest try to get a KGST for the 009s. But I don't know whether this is closed game or not for the OP. We all know this hobby is mostly a closed game once we've acquired what we were originally after. (LOL).


----------



## Rayzilla

preproman said:


> If you go the 009 route would an amp like the KGST for around $2K to $2.5K fit in the budget?







negura said:


> I'd also suggest try to get a KGST for the 009s. But I don't know whether this is closed game or not for the OP. We all know this hobby is mostly a closed game once we've acquired what we were originally after. (LOL).




Are you guys divorce lawyers by any chance? lol, because I am going to need one if I follow your advice.

My original total budget was about $3,000. I could pick up a used 009 with 007tII for a couple over $,3,000. I would consider upgrading to a TOTL amp for the 009 about a year or so later. So the 007 amp will have to be pretty acceptable since it will be a long wait until then.


So Rag and mid level Stax or the above? I do not plan on ever selling off my HD 800.


----------



## paradoxper

preproman said:


> If you go the 009 route would an amp like the KGST for around $2K to $2.5K fit in the budget?


 
 A HV can be had for $2k just as well. And "conceding" for a mk 1 instead of the 009 isn't a bad option either.


----------



## Earspeakers

rayzilla said:


> Are you guys divorce lawyers by any chance? lol, because I am going to need one if I follow your advice.


 
  
 A Stax 009 setup is cheaper than a divorce, at least in California.


----------



## Rayzilla

paradoxper said:


> A HV can be had for $2k just as well. And "conceding" for a mk 1 instead of the 009 isn't a bad option either.


 
 Sorry, I am still new to the STAX and electrostatic line but is the HV short for KGSSHV or something like that? The $3,200 budget that I am talking about is for he SR-009 and the STAX 007 amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 Is the mk1 another STAX headphone model? Sorry for my ignorance here too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


earspeakers said:


> A Stax 009 setup is cheaper than a divorce, at least in California.


 
 It would be if I were the breadwinner of the family. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  We were pretty equal at one point but since our relocation to Hong Kong and my recent career change, that is far from the case now. Although my future is taking a turn for the better, thus part of the green light for this purchase, I still feel a guilty when spending on these kind of things. But I am not too bad; most of my spending these days is limited to hobby and ice-hockey. So I am a pretty good 'boy'.


----------



## paradoxper

rayzilla said:


> Sorry, I am still new to the STAX and electrostatic line but is the HV short for KGSSHV or something like that? The $3,200 budget that I am talking about is for he SR-009 and the STAX 007 amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes. And it's the 007 mk 1. Now, being in HK, I'm not sure if you'd deal with getting taxed buying from the US, etc.
  
 But it's just another option, if you can stretch your budget. The mk 1 can be had for $1500-2k. So it can help give a little more wiggle room over the 009.


----------



## Rayzilla

This is the portable Kingsound amp that I was asking about earlier. 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/729831/lightbox/post/10996598/id/1224558
  
 Does anyone know if the STAX headphones will work with it? It has been reported that the STAX headphones have worked with Kingsound's desktop amps like the M-10 and M-20. They are based in Hong Kong, so if I do get any STAX, I can bring them to the Kindsound showroom and find out and report back to you guys.


----------



## Rayzilla

paradoxper said:


> Yes. And it's the 007 mk 1. Now, being in HK, I'm not sure if you'd deal with getting taxed buying from the US, etc.
> 
> But it's just another option, if you can stretch your budget. The mk 1 can be had for $1500-2k. So it can help give a little more wiggle room over the 009.


 
 Thanks for filling in the blanks for me and for providing me with options. I have read about the 007 and based on what I was reading, I didn't think it was the sound signature that pleases me. For example and correct me if I am wrong but I tested the HE1000 and I didn't like it because compared to the HD 800, I thought the HE1000 was lacking in the treble (veiled I think is the term?). For me, I instantly disliked the HE1000. My understanding is that that seems to be the main difference between the 007 and the 009. I love the detail, clarity in treble and the quick, punchiness in the bass of the HD 800. That is why I do not see myself ever getting rid of my HD 800. I just see too many selling off their HD 800 and then coming back to them again later. Trying to learn from others' mistakes.


----------



## astrostar59

rayzilla said:


> Sorry, I am still new to the STAX and electrostatic line but is the HV short for KGSSHV or something like that? The $3,200 budget that I am talking about is for he SR-009 and the STAX 007 amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have the 009s and the 007A's (007 bought from Price Japan last week) and the 007s are really nice, better than my previous 007 Black 2012 model. If you are on 3200 US I would say get a new 007A and an SRM-727 from PJ while you are in Hong Kong. If you are to go back to the US you should be able to change over the trans wires to 120v later. You don't have enough funds for the 009 let alone an amp to drive it. And DIY amps are great if you can find any second hand from a good builder originally.
  
 My SRM-717 sounds great with my 007A's. You will love it. Stress about an 009 later if you can get the funds and find you want more. The 727 and 007A's will blow your mind, trust me.


----------



## purk

astrostar59 said:


> I have the 009s and the 007A's (007 bought from Price Japan last week) and the 007s are really nice, better than my previous 007 Black 2012 model. If you are on 3200 US I would say get a new 007A and an SRM-727 from PJ while you are in Hong Kong. If you are to go back to the US you should be able to change over the trans wires to 120v later. You don't have enough funds for the 009 let alone an amp to drive it. And DIY amps are great if you can find any second hand from a good builder originally.
> 
> My SRM-717 sounds great with my 007A's. You will love it. Stress about an 009 later if you can get the funds and find you want more. The 727 and 007A's will blow your mind, trust me.


 
 Instead of getting the SRM-727, I would just buy the KGSSs that are available for less than $1500 in the FS forum.


----------



## paradoxper

rayzilla said:


> Thanks for filling in the blanks for me and for providing me with options. I have read about the 007 and based on what I was reading, I didn't think it was the sound signature that pleases me. For example and correct me if I am wrong but I tested the HE1000 and I didn't like it because compared to the HD 800, I thought the HE1000 was lacking in the treble (veiled I think is the term?). For me, I instantly disliked the HE1000. My understanding is that that seems to be the main difference between the 007 and the 009. I love the detail, clarity in treble and the quick, punchiness in the bass of the HD 800. That is why I do not see myself ever getting rid of my HD 800. I just see too many selling off their HD 800 and then coming back to them again later. Trying to learn from others' mistakes.


 
 Depends how you hear things. I feel the 007 is as detailed as the HD800 without presenting any grain or harshness. Compared to the 009 I do feel
 the mk 1 feels a bit veiled or even colored. More so see the mk 1 as complimentary to the HD800.


----------



## preproman

I don't think the 007s are veiled at all. they're very transparent and clear.  Colored, yes.  None the less IMO they sound better than most of the Planars and Dynamics out there.


----------



## paradoxper

preproman said:


> I don't think the 007s are veiled at all. they're very transparent and clear.  Colored, yes.  None the less IMO they sound better than most of the Planars and Dynamics out there.


 
 Compared to most planars and dynamics I find they reveal how colored those headphones are. Against the 009
 is where I find it evident the mk 1 is both colored and veiled. Just how I hear it, still a top notch offering.


----------



## Rayzilla

astrostar59 said:


> I have the 009s and the 007A's (007 bought from Price Japan last week) and the 007s are really nice, better than my previous 007 Black 2012 model. If you are on 3200 US I would say get a new 007A and an SRM-727 from PJ while you are in Hong Kong. If you are to go back to the US you should be able to change over the trans wires to 120v later. You don't have enough funds for the 009 let alone an amp to drive it. And DIY amps are great if you can find any second hand from a good builder originally.
> 
> My SRM-717 sounds great with my 007A's. You will love it. Stress about an 009 later if you can get the funds and find you want more. The 727 and 007A's will blow your mind, trust me.


 
 Sorry for the confusion but this is my residence situation. I am originally from Toronto, Canada where the voltage is 110v. Lived there for all of my first 41 years of my life until relocating to Hong Kong for the last almost 7 years where the voltage is 220v. My original budget was around $3,000 US but then I have a deal dangling in front of me for a SR-009 / SRM-007tII combo for $3,200 US. Sorry for my confusing residence situation. 
  
 It is about three years old. Has there been any recurring issues mentioned about 009 that are three or more years old? What do I need to look out for when checking/testing it?
  
 So for $3,200 would you still recommend the SR-007A / SRM-727 combo new, or the SR-009 / SRM-007tII combo that is three years old? Knowing that it will be at least a year before I can upgrade the SRM-007tII.
  


purk said:


> Instead of getting the SRM-727, I would just buy the KGSSs that are available for less than $1500 in the FS forum.


 
 I will take a look at that KGSS. How will I know if it was well put together? And my understanding is that using a step-down voltage transformer will not present any major problems?
  


paradoxper said:


> Depends how you hear things. I feel the 007 is as detailed as the HD800 without presenting any grain or harshness. Compared to the 009 I do feel
> the mk 1 feels a bit veiled or even colored. More so see the mk 1 as complimentary to the HD800.


 
 Thanks for your opinion on the 007. It is the 'bit veiled' comment that has me worried about going that route given my testing experience with the HE1000. I will keep this i mind.
  


preproman said:


> I don't think the 007s are veiled at all. they're very transparent and clear.  Colored, yes.  None the less IMO they sound better than most of the Planars and Dynamics out there.


 
 And given what I just posted above, now you bring back some confusion to my options. lol
  


paradoxper said:


> Compared to most planars and dynamics I find they reveal how colored those headphones are. Against the 009
> is where I find it evident the mk 1 is both colored and veiled. Just how I hear it, still a top notch offering.


 
 That is what I want compared, the 007 to the 009. I don't want to get the 007 and then trying the 009 some time later and regretting or feel that I am missing that clarity...
  
 I will try to find some more information on the SRM-007tII. The 009 is a clearer picture.
  
 Thanks and keep the opinions and recommendations coming. I really appreciate it.
  
 And any comments on the portable Kingsound amp?


----------



## EveTan

rayzilla said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > I have the 009s and the 007A's (007 bought from Price Japan last week) and the 007s are really nice, better than my previous 007 Black 2012 model. If you are on 3200 US I would say get a new 007A and an SRM-727 from PJ while you are in Hong Kong. If you are to go back to the US you should be able to change over the trans wires to 120v later. You don't have enough funds for the 009 let alone an amp to drive it. And DIY amps are great if you can find any second hand from a good builder originally.
> ...


----------



## mulveling

richard51 said:


> the price of all your amps are to high for me..... i will try with the stax+ the microzotl 2 directly from the speakers taps with a woo wee....and a high power supply ( http://www.mojo-audio.com/joule-v-power-supply/  ) total cost : 2,600 dollars for all + the cost of the stax..... I bet on the microzotl2 because of the designer ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I had an original microZOTL and it was decent, but I preferred a good dynalo implementation (e.g. a Headamp Gilmore Reference is much better). A dynahi will absolutely clobber it. I would never consider throwing transformers in front of it to drive electrostats as a good idea -- PSU or not. You should abort this plan.


----------



## purk

mulveling said:


> I had an original microZOTL and it was decent, but I preferred a good dynalo implementation (e.g. a Headamp Gilmore Reference is much better). A dynahi will absolutely clobber it. I would never consider throwing transformers in front of it to drive electrostats as a good idea -- PSU or not. You should abort this plan.


 
 I can't second that enough.  There is a really nice KGST for sale right now for 2.2K that will make any Stax sings a really sweet tune...and you choose not to buy that?


----------



## Failed Engineer

The SR-007 only get pegged as veiled because they are so often underamped.  Anything less than a KGSSHV and the SR-007 do sound veiled and "sleepy" (KGSS and all Stax production amps).  But pair them with a KGSSHV or better (I haven't heard one with the KGST) and they wake up and you get probably the best overall headphone currently in production, IMO.  Better than the SR-009 and other flagships.


----------



## purk

failed engineer said:


> The SR-007 only get pegged as veiled because they are so often underamped.  Anything less than a KGSSHV and the SR-007 do sound veiled and "sleepy" (KGSS and all Stax production amps).  But pair them with a KGSSHV or better (I haven't heard one with the KGST) and they wake up and you get probably the best overall headphone currently in production, IMO.  Better than the SR-009 and other flagships.


 
 Yes, the SR007 really starts to flex its muscle when use with the KGSSHV or higher.  It certainly sounds best when driving out of the BHSE/T2 though .  The KGST is also very good at driving the SR007, however it is a better match to the SR009 than the SR007 due to slightly warmer tonality.  I also feel that the IXY 500V does a slightly better job at driving the SR007 MKI due to its slightly less euphoric character compared to the 450V Sanyo version.  Overall I still prefer the SR009 compared to SR007 MKI as I feel it is slightly more resolving and more transparent.


----------



## richard51

mulveling said:


> I had an original microZOTL and it was decent, but I preferred a good dynalo implementation (e.g. a Headamp Gilmore Reference is much better). A dynahi will absolutely clobber it. I would never consider throwing transformers in front of it to drive electrostats as a good idea -- PSU or not. You should abort this plan.


 

 i plan to buy the microzotl2 this is better than the original one....And apparently the Mojo  psu  made a big difference... the cost of the 2 equal the gilmore amp   .And very important i dont want to pay for a very costly  electrostatic amp only , i want to use the same amp +woo wee for electrostatic and without it for my speakers and planars headphone .... If you read this thread you will discover that modulo a good amp the woowee will be a great gear :
  
_http://www.head-fi.org/t/681814/amplifiers-shootout-for-stax-009-eddie-current-electra-audiovalve-rkv-wooaudio-wee-stax-srm727-srm007t2_


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## paradoxper

richard51 said:


> i plan to buy the microzotl2 this is better than the original one....And apparently the Mojo  psu  made a big difference... the cost of the 2 equal the gilmore amp   .And very important i dont want to pay for a very costly  electrostatic amp only , i want to use the same amp +woo wee for electrostatic and without it for my speakers and planars headphone .... If you read this thread you will discover that modulo a good amp the woowee will be a great gear :
> 
> _http://www.head-fi.org/t/681814/amplifiers-shootout-for-stax-009-eddie-current-electra-audiovalve-rkv-wooaudio-wee-stax-srm727-srm007t2_


 
 That system will suck.


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## richard51

paradoxper said:


> That system will suck.


 

 your opinion is an alert signal for sure ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But why do you say so without reading the thread  about the woo wee i has indicated, without possessing this mojo psu, and whitout knowing the microzotl 2 ? perhaps you know that all and then i must listen carefully


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## paradoxper

richard51 said:


> your opinion is an alert signal for sure !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The ZOTL may be fine for dynamics and the alike. You're simply gimping the stat side. I don't care what amp you pair the WEE with, it's mediocre in performance.


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## richard51

paradoxper said:


> The ZOTL may be fine for dynamics and the alike. You're simply gimping the stat side. I don't care what amp you pair the WEE with, it's mediocre in performance.


 

 why in the world these bunch of french guy did all these systematic  blind test with the woo wee and declared it champion against the other amps ? :
  
 «Amplifiers tested:
 - Eddie Current Electra with PSVANE tubes 
 - Audiovalve RKV mark 2 + WooAudio Wee energizer using a custom adapter cable between the RKV headphone out and the Wee HP input (the RKV impedancer thus wasn't used)
 - Stax SRM 727 II (plugged into PS Audio PowerPlant P3)
 - Stax SRM 007t2 (plugged into PS Audio PowerPlant P3)»
  
  Put simply : i bet that the microzotl 2 with the Mojo psu  will be equal to the audiovalve amp...
  
 Are all this guy hearings in desesperate need for a doctor? i dont think so .... For sure i appreciated your advise but....What are the value of the advise of these french lover of Stax ?


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## paradoxper

richard51 said:


> why in the world these bunch of french guy did all these systematic  blind test with the woo wee and declared it champion against the other amps ? :
> 
> «Amplifiers tested:
> - Eddie Current Electra with PSVANE tubes
> ...


 
 That test was conducted over a 4 hour period, it is what it is. Live with the gear for a few weeks...
  
 Measuring up to the Audiovalve crap isn't really an accomplishment. I digress. Take the road you seek; live and learn.


----------



## richard51

paradoxper said:


> That test was conducted over a 4 hour period, it is what it is. Live with the gear for a few weeks...
> 
> Measuring up to the Audiovalve crap isn't really an accomplishment. I digress. Take the road you seek; live and learn.


 

 i appreciate you opinion ... i apologize if i had hurt you but i want to understand  others impressions thanks to you ... i will think about all that
  
 p.s. you call audiovalve RKV crap.... isnt a bit excessive by the way ?
  
 a review for exemple : http://www.head-fi.org/t/13794/audiovalve-rkv-mk-ii-review


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## paradoxper

richard51 said:


> i appreciate you opinion ... i apologize if i had hurt you but i want to understand  others impressions thanks to you ... i will think about all that
> 
> p.s. you call audiovalve RKV crap.... isnt a bit excessive by the way ?
> 
> a review for exemple : http://www.head-fi.org/t/13794/audiovalve-rkv-mk-ii-review


 
 I am just offering another opinion. No feelings considered. The Audiovalve stuff has been shilled to no end, it's crap.


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## Rayzilla

Strictly based on that test, I will have a lot to look forward to for at least a year after I get the system I mentioned (assuming I get it).


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## thinker

paradoxper said:


> That test was conducted over a 4 hour period, it is what it is. Live with the gear for a few weeks...
> 
> Measuring up to the Audiovalve crap isn't really an accomplishment. I digress. Take the road you seek; live and learn.


 

 I have heard almost all Stax amps with SR-009,Omega MKI,II,and Lambda series and all phones with Transistoramp V4 the Audiovalve Verto feeded with 100W amp trumps all of them,just talking with 30 years expirience with Stax and Sennheiser Stats and you are twentysomething.I may order in near future for my collection the Spritzer Carbon, not sure if this amp can rival the Verto/MLevinson combo.I already mentioned on earlier posts which are the benefits with Verto transformer,i recommend all Stax lovers to test the transformer with excellent amps.


----------



## paradoxper

thinker said:


> I have heard almost all Stax amps with SR-009,Omega MKI,II,and Lambda series and all phones with Transistoramp V4 the Audiovalve Verto feeded with 100W amp trumps all of them,just talking with 30 years expirience with Stax and Sennheiser Stats and you are twentysomething.I may order in near future for my collection the Spritzer Carbon, not sure if this amp can rival the Verto/ML combo.I already mentioned on earlier posts what are the benefits with Verto transformer,i recommend all Stax lovers to test the transformer with excellent amps.


 
 Through the years things change. Acquiring a top quality KG Design isn't very difficult. And the price is competitive. I'd pick up a KGST or HV for $2k-ish anyday over any of the transformer box crap I've heard. 
  
 I've never heard the wonders of the Transistoramp, so I simply won't comment on it. If you're happy, that's all that matters.


----------



## purk

richard51 said:


> your opinion is an alert signal for sure ! :atsmile:
> 
> But why do you say so without reading the thread  about the woo wee i has indicated, without possessing this mojo psu, and whitout knowing the microzotl 2 ? perhaps you know that all and then i must listen carefully




There is a dedicated Stax amp for a reason. Don't short change your headphones man! We are doing you a favor by warning you. Why not just get the best Stax amp that you can get, sell the Woo, and get a decent dynamic amp later. You can get the kgss for $1400 and spend the rest on the audio gd amp and be done.


----------



## purk

thinker said:


> I have heard almost all Stax amps with SR-009,Omega MKI,II,and Lambda series and all phones with Transistoramp V4 the Audiovalve Verto feeded with 100W amp trumps all of them,just talking with 30 years expirience with Stax and Sennheiser Stats and you are twentysomething.I may order in near future for my collection the Spritzer Carbon, not sure if this amp can rival the Verto/MLevinson combo.I already mentioned on earlier posts which are the benefits with Verto transformer,i recommend all Stax lovers to test the transformer with excellent amps.




Having heard Stax amps unless the legendary srm-t2 is nothing to brag about really. KG designs are much more superior sounding than anything Stax currently make. Yes and I have current top of the Stax amp as well along with the Hev-90 amplifier.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Is a SRM-717 (or a modded SRM-727) on par with, let's say, a KGSS ?
  
 Ali


----------



## EveTan

Just came back from the Sf Head-fi meet and finally got a chance to A/B the 007/009s from a BHSE. 
  
 Got some mixed feelings. On the 009 side, even though it had amazing detailing, imaging, the little extra shine from it ended up becoming fatiguing within...20 min or so? 
 The 007 MkI, while a bit duller when compared side by side were more comfortable to listen to when I played some bright tracks.
  
 Just based off memory, I prefer the 007A over the MKI, just because I like the forwardness with the 007A a bit more.
  
 Haha, finally have closure. At least for a while.


----------



## mulveling

richard51 said:


> i plan to buy the microzotl2 this is better than the original one....And apparently the Mojo  psu  made a big difference... the cost of the 2 equal the gilmore amp   .And very important i dont want to pay for a very costly  electrostatic amp only , i want to use the same amp +woo wee for electrostatic and without it for my speakers and planars headphone .... If you read this thread you will discover that modulo a good amp the woowee will be a great gear :
> 
> _http://www.head-fi.org/t/681814/amplifiers-shootout-for-stax-009-eddie-current-electra-audiovalve-rkv-wooaudio-wee-stax-srm727-srm007t2_


 
 OK, but also realize that the microZOTL 2 is not even close to meeting Woo's recommended minimum 5 Volts @ 8 ohms for an amp pairing with the WEE. The microZOTL 2 can't even push 3 Volts into 8 ohms; having binding posts (which seem to be a waste of money in this case) doesn't make it a real speaker amp. Every bit of sensible information in the world says that this will be a bad paring. But good luck!


----------



## astrostar59

evetan said:


> Just came back from the Sf Head-fi meet and finally got a chance to A/B the 007/009s from a BHSE.
> 
> Got some mixed feelings. On the 009 side, even though it had amazing detailing, imaging, the little extra shine from it ended up becoming fatiguing within...20 min or so?
> The 007 MkI, while a bit duller when compared side by side were more comfortable to listen to when I played some bright tracks.
> ...


 
 It is a difficult task. I have spent many hours with David's BHSE and my older 007 MK2.5 Black model, and my new 009s. I instantly preferred the 009s. Yes, the 007s are more forgiving but drop I guess 4db in the mid treble range but leave the upper treble as is. This makes a slightly odd presentation that masked a digital front ends lack of warmth or realism IMO. With David's BHSE and my 009s driven by his K-01 I had no fatigue and that was with the PS Vane Tubes. The standard Mullards were a little bright on some tracks.
  
 So what? I prefer the 009s with better tubes of course, the extra SQ of the 009s makes that extra effort worthwhile. It's system synergy.
 I think the BHSE is a capacitor less design, i.e. no filtering of the sound like many tube amplifiers. And I must say coming from 300B SET amplifiers for years, I am none to impressed with many re-issue tubes. Many seem to have no resemblance to the originals other than name and more or less the physical strutter. So rather than dumb things down with the 007s, find decent tubes that fit the system.
  
 Another point at this quality level, the DAC is very important. Many modern DACs are just too treble emphasised as in too bright, it seems to be the current trend. Going back to the 007s, my older MK2.5 were duller than my current recent issue 007A's, so not sure if Stax have altered the drivers again?


----------



## Todams

I have a SR-407 with a broken case holder, could anyone tell me how to remove it without breaking the headband so I could replace it with a new one?


----------



## EveTan

astrostar59 said:


> It is a difficult task. I have spent many hours with David's BHSE and my older 007 MK2.5 Black model, and my new 009s. I instantly preferred the 009s. Yes, the 007s are more forgiving but drop I guess 4db in the mid treble range but leave the upper treble as is. This makes a slightly odd presentation that masked a digital front ends lack of warmth or realism IMO. With David's BHSE and my 009s driven by his K-01 I had no fatigue and that was with the PS Vane Tubes. The standard Mullards were a little bright on some tracks.
> 
> So what? I prefer the 009s with better tubes of course, the extra SQ of the 009s makes that extra effort worthwhile. It's system synergy.
> I think the BHSE is a capacitor less design, i.e. no filtering of the sound like many tube amplifiers. And I must say coming from 300B SET amplifiers for years, I am none to impressed with many re-issue tubes. Many seem to have no resemblance to the originals other than name and more or less the physical strutter. So rather than dumb things down with the 007s, find decent tubes that fit the system.
> ...


 
 I also feel it has to do with music preferences as well. I think my library is already consisting of very bright songs. I listen to alot of jpop and some jrock which is already emphasized to be bright.


----------



## richard51

mulveling said:


> OK, but also realize that the microZOTL 2 is not even close to meeting Woo's recommended minimum 5 Volts @ 8 ohms for an amp pairing with the WEE. The microZOTL 2 can't even push 3 Volts into 8 ohms; having binding posts (which seem to be a waste of money in this case) doesn't make it a real speaker amp. Every bit of sensible information in the world says that this will be a bad paring. But good luck!


 

 the microzotl 2 can push to audible and loud level with his one watt tube power  all loudspeakers efficient 89 db at 3 hour  or at noon 92 db  loudspeakers...With the speakers output of the microzotl its simple to connect to the woo wee, and i can use his  pre amp function  for my powered speakers, and it is also an  headphone amp for my hifiman he 400...all that in one amp for 1100 dollars...plus a super Mojo Joule V power supply (999 dollars) the Kgst alone cost the price of the two and cannot drive my speakers or my planars( nor his power supply compare to the Mojo )...In the negative hypothesis where the microzotl is bad with my  stax lambda nova basic , i had an excellent amp for the planars headphones an excellent pre amp for the planar speakers and the woo wee for future experiment...Then i  will  continue to use my srm 252s amp for my lambda nova and wait for upgrade amping of the staxes in the future ...Right now my he 400 ( with sorbothane mod)well driven are on par with my  stax...different but trust me on par...this is my planning...I plan to buy he 6 in the future and stax 007 ...two different animals for my zoo...The question for me  : what is the better amp in the world for the least price ?... I bet for the microzotl2 with a great power supplies...Its simple if you had money...I dont have  and i want to drive all my gear with one amp...If you read about David Berning on the net..... You will discover no negative review...its the reason for my interest....Its easy to buy a 12 thousand dollars amp ( easy solution  with a big wallet), i want to look for the best in the 1000 dollars range... The microzotl seems the candidate....


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## mulveling

If you are happy with a 1 Watt amp driving 89dB loudspeakers, then you will probably be very happy with almost any setup at all. The one-size-fits all approach is definitely appropriate in that case. But then...what the heck are you doing in the summit-fi forum??

 Also I just gave a semi-negative review of the ZOTL. So no more zero negative reviews now?


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## richard51

«.what the heck are you doing in the summit-fi forum??»


mulveling said:


>


 
 I am only interested in opinions and experience, not in dogmas and exclusion, and for me David Berning Amp are HI- Fi , i dont understand that a discussion may end with this remark.... Perhaps my choice for amping the stax are bad....But your last remark testify for some arrogance   .... I am here to discuss with open heart not listen to inappropriate remark.... I am grateful to you for your precedent post and  tactful advise but with your last remark my discussion end here with you... Best regards


----------



## mulveling

richard51 said:


> «.what the heck are you doing in the summit-fi forum??»
> I am only interested in opinions and experience, not in dogmas and exclusion, and for me David Berning Amp are HI- Fi , i dont understand that a discussion may end with this remark.... Perhaps my choice for amping the stax are bad....But your last remark testify for some arrogance   .... I am here to discuss with open heart not listen to inappropriate remark.... I am grateful to you for your precedent post and  tactful advise but with your last remark my discussion end here with you... Best regards


 
 Good, because I am chock full of both opinions and experience!
  
 Seriously though, I am perfectly happy to have you post here and banter with me (and others). I don't mean for you to leave. It's just that for the typical Summit-fi consumer reading these forums, I wanted to voice my opinion that your route is far from optimal for the electrostatic headphone side of things. Kevin Gilmore and Spritzer (Birgir) have given us high-end headphone lovers amplification gifts on par with that of fire to early man. It would be immoral not to make that apparent to others at every possible opportunity.


----------



## richard51

mulveling said:


> Good, because I am chock full of both opinions and experience!
> 
> Seriously though, I am perfectly happy to have you post here and banter with me (and others). I don't mean for you to leave. It's just that for the typical Summit-fi consumer reading these forums, I wanted to voice my opinion that your route is far from optimal for the electrostatic headphone side of things. Kevin Gilmore and Spritzer (Birgir) have given us high-end headphone lovers amplification gifts on par with that of fire to early man. It would be immoral not to make that apparent to others at every possible opportunity.


 

 i understand.... I apologize for my quick reaction then.... I appreciate your experience and remarks and i had expose to you my reason....an amp for all my gear.... If i had more money  i will buy a 3000 dollars amp of Spritzer for sure only for  my stax ... Thanks sincerely for your advise to me and to all of us


----------



## EveTan

I was wondering, for the Sr-009s, are there ways of reducing its brightness? Maybe with an amp pairing? 
  
 Since I am a bit sensitive in the treble, it ended up pretty fatiguing on the BHSE.


----------



## mulveling

richard51 said:


> i understand.... I apologize for my quick reaction then.... I appreciate your experience and remarks and i had expose to you my reason....an amp for all my gear.... If i had more money  i will buy a 3000 dollars amp of Spritzer for sure only for  my stax ... Thanks sincerely for your advise to me and to all of us


 
 Then we are at an understanding. Cheers to you too, sir, and happy weekend!


----------



## mulveling

evetan said:


> I was wondering, for the Sr-009s, are there ways of reducing its brightness? Maybe with an amp pairing?
> 
> Since I am a bit sensitive in the treble, it ended up pretty fatiguing on the BHSE.


 
 Yes. The 450V Sanyo build of KGSShv I have supplies a good dose warmth for the 009. Pair that with a warm DAC (e.g. I have an Eximus DP-1 that's warm) and you will not get a hint of brightness nor fatigue. I had a touch fatigue with the BHSE when using Amperex/Holland EL34 and 009 -- it is slightly bright overall. However the BHSE is more resolving than even the best KGSShv, so it would be worthwhile to explore with a warmer EL34 (e.g. maybe Mullard, which are definitely a warm tube?). Personally I prefer the warmer balanced KGSShv over the Holland'd BHSE for 009, despite the slightly lower resolution. That said, the BHSE w/ 007 MK1 is far superior to the KGSShv w/ 007 -- but the 009 is clearly the better headphone!


----------



## n3rdling

I really don't understand the people that get into stats and have their mind set on just adding a Woo Wee to their system.  Their reasoning is usually that they don't want to spend thousands on an amp or want to "use one amp for everything". 
  
 First off, you don't have to spend thousands on an amp.  There are many options out there for affordable, dedicated Stax amps.  The Wee sells for $500.  You can get a Stax SRM-1, SRM-3, SRM-300, SRM-310, SRM-313, etc for less than that on the used market.  They're good SS performers, convenient, and reliable.  The SRM-1 in particular is a very good value, just make sure it has pro bias outputs.  The SRM-300/310 are interesting as they're cap-coupled and also double as a headphone stand.  If those amps are too big for your desk space, you can get one of the small SS Stax amps such as the SRM-Xh, SRM-212, SRM-252, etc for less than the price of the Wee.  If you look around you can spend about the same amount or a little more on one of the SRM-T1 amps which pair very well with the Lambda series in particular.  They're also decent with the SR-Omega and the SR-009...I just wouldn't recommend the SR-007 with them.  The current production TOTL Stax tube amps are basically the same thing as those.  Sure all these amps aren't the latest and greatest, don't have "appreciation" threads, and aren't being reviewed on CNET, but if you're truly after getting better sound instead of padding your ego you should at least give these some consideration.
  
 Addressing the second line of thought, usually when people say they want to use their dynamic HP/speaker amp to power their Stax it's because they're too into their said dynamic amp.  microZOTL and audiovalve pimping as recent case in points.  No offense, but I've seen it time and time again over the years.  I'm not saying you can't get good sound out of a transformer system or that some people don't prefer transformer systems, but the *vast *majority of Stax users use dedicated electrostatic amps as preference.  Those numbers get even more skewed with the more experienced stat users.  Specialization always bests jacks of all trades if you're after performance for one given thing.
  
 All that being said, if you want to spend less than a Wee, want to use up even less desk space than a Wee, and want to continue your personal romance with your dynamic amp: get a damn Stax SRD-7.


----------



## richard51

n3rdling said:


> I really don't understand the people that get into stats and have their mind set on just adding a Woo Wee to their system.  Their reasoning is usually that they don't want to spend thousands on an amp or want to "use one amp for everything".
> 
> First off, you don't have to spend thousands on an amp.  There are many options out there for affordable, dedicated Stax amps.  The Wee sells for $500.  You can get a Stax SRM-1, SRM-3, SRM-300, SRM-310, SRM-313, etc for less than that on the used market.  They're good SS performers, convenient, and reliable.  The SRM-1 in particular is a very good value, just make sure it has pro bias outputs.  The SRM-300/310 are interesting as they're cap-coupled and also double as a headphone stand.  If those amps are too big for your desk space, you can get one of the small SS Stax amps such as the SRM-Xh, SRM-212, SRM-252, etc for less than the price of the Wee.  If you look around you can spend about the same amount or a little more on one of the SRM-T1 amps which pair very well with the Lambda series in particular.  They're also decent with the SR-Omega and the SR-009...I just wouldn't recommend the SR-007 with them.  The current production TOTL Stax tube amps are basically the same thing as those.  Sure all these amps aren't the latest and greatest, don't have "appreciation" threads, and aren't being reviewed on CNET, but if you're truly after getting better sound instead of padding your ego you should at least give these some consideration.
> 
> ...


 
 You dont understand people who are not in a religion or a cult (stax only).... i understand you perfectLy .... «their reasoning» you said.... its not reasoning its only budget for multiple gear ( stax, planars and speakers).... I already have a srm 252s stax amp by the way ... its excellent but my Ember with 7193 tubes and sorbothane mod he 400 are better to my ears , i apologize for sure to say that here  ( what a blasphemous! )...  i welcome advise and discussion .... but its not possible with detrimental one side judgement...«Get a damn Stax SRD-7...» its very comical gesture ....ok I am stupid because i had other gear than stax... And i am a  damn idiot to want to  try  a piece of gear that is not a stax product... you made me smile ... thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  By the way i will  do no more  "pimping" of microzotl and audiovalve....its outrageous for innocent ears ... i understand... without animosity i wish you the best...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 I apologize if i had hurt your feelings by these remarks, but i cannot resist  to your patronizing , and i react with my sarcastic smile...


----------



## n3rdling

If you've researched the marketplace you'd know that Stax (and the Wee) is basically your only option for affordable electrostatic amplification, hence the Stax recommendations.  If you have access to a bunch of non Stax products in your price range that you feel I should have recommended I'm all ears since I don't know about them.  We're not zealots, this is just a really small niche - there aren't tons of options.  If your budget was $2k I would have given mention to the Woo GES and some DIY amps as well.
  
 There's nothing wrong with preferring your dynamic setup to your electrostatic setup.  If your goal is to improve the performance of your electrostatic system to get closer to or surpass your dynamic system, I'd recommend changing the electrostatic headphone before changing electrostatic amps.  Most people here would probably say you're only on your way towards taking a step backwards with your electrostatic setup (and I'd agree), but there are a couple users that prefer the transformer solutions.
  
 I think I've given you sound advice, even though you probably don't want to hear it.  The SRD-7 was recommended to help save you money.  If you want to spend 3x as much, take up more desk space, and have worse jacks, go for it.


----------



## richard51

n3rdling said:


> If you've researched the marketplace you'd know that Stax (and the Wee) is basically your only option for affordable electrostatic amplification, hence the Stax recommendations.  If you have access to a bunch of non Stax products in your price range that you feel I should have recommended I'm all ears since I don't know about them.  We're not zealots, this is just a really small niche - there aren't tons of options.  If your budget was $2k I would have given mention to the Woo GES and some DIY amps as well.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with preferring your dynamic setup to your electrostatic setup.  If your goal is to improve the performance of your electrostatic system to get closer to or surpass your dynamic system, I'd recommend changing the electrostatic headphone before changing electrostatic amps.  Most people here would probably say you're only on your way towards taking a step backwards with your electrostatic setup (and I'd agree), but there are a couple users that prefer the transformer solutions.
> 
> I think I've given you sound advice, even though you probably don't want to hear it.  The SRD-7 was recommended to help save you money.  If you want to spend 3x as much, take up more desk space, and have worse jacks, go for it.


 

 Perhaps i had misunderstood your tone and  your remarks... do you advise me to go for a srd-7 because its on the same level than the woo wee and less costly? I want to try the microZOTL 2 because i had multiple gear to serve with only ONE amp....I really like the Stax and want to explore it...but i dont want to go without my other gear also... I really like planars speakers and headphone.... Stax and planar are for me different animals...like dog and cat.... I love them all...If the SRD-7 is on the same level than the woo wee it will be a good idea then to go there and save dollars....i realize that i had supposed without ground that the srd-7 is less good than the woo wee.... what do you think?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 in a word i think that a microzotl + mojo joule V power supply+ SRD7 ( 2500 dollars) will serve right all my gear....and will be better than the srm stax 252s amp for my lambda....i dont want to invest 2000 dollars in only a stax amp...this is my option....its the srd7 is less costly and on par with the woo wee i will go for it...


----------



## n3rdling

In my limited experience with the Wee, I'd say the SRD7 is at least as good if not a bit better.  I think you're going to be hard pressed to find impressions comparing the two against each other because it doesn't seem like many people have had both at the same time and with the same speaker amp.  I only got a chance to compare them briefly because somebody had them at a meet.  This was years ago though and I'm not sure if he's even active anymore.
  
 Is there any reason you're considering getting that power supply?  That's pretty expensive for something like that.  What are the PSU requirements of the microzotl?  I think you should probably just get an amb sigma22 PSU either here on the forums or custom built.  It'll save you some $700-800 and it's a well established, very high performance, regulated PSU.
  
 With the SRD-7 and sigma22 I just saved you about $1k.  Sell the Lambda for a few hundred and you're right on the edge of getting a used SR-007, right where we want you


----------



## Ali-Pacha

And here is a very cheap SRD-7 Pro : http://www.marktplaats.nl/a/audio-tv-en-foto/luidsprekers/m946032297-stax-srd-7.html?c=a2384ef0ece270f44503df9f8598c624&previousPage=lr
 BTW, you can also have a SRM-1/mk2 Pro for very few bucks : http://www.leboncoin.fr/image_son/819783617.htm?ca=12_s
  
 Ali


----------



## Sorrodje

ali-pacha said:


> BTW, you can also have a SRM-1/mk2 Pro for very few bucks : http://www.leboncoin.fr/image_son/819783617.htm?ca=12_s


 
  
 Nice ! .. just bought a SRM-T1 for my lambda NB but I would have been tempted.  Some vintage lambda with this SRM1-mkII would surely give al lot of nowadays "Hi-end" uber expensive headphones a run for their money.


----------



## preproman

evetan said:


> I was wondering, for the Sr-009s, are there ways of reducing its brightness? Maybe with an amp pairing?
> 
> Since I am a bit sensitive in the treble, it ended up pretty fatiguing on the BHSE.


 

 The KGST might be the amp you should look for.  Pair it with your choice of matching / warm DAC and there you have it.


----------



## richard51

n3rdling said:


> In my limited experience with the Wee, I'd say the SRD7 is at least as good if not a bit better.  I think you're going to be hard pressed to find impressions comparing the two against each other because it doesn't seem like many people have had both at the same time and with the same speaker amp.  I only got a chance to compare them briefly because somebody had them at a meet.  This was years ago though and I'm not sure if he's even active anymore.
> 
> Is there any reason you're considering getting that power supply?  That's pretty expensive for something like that.  What are the PSU requirements of the microzotl?  I think you should probably just get an amb sigma22 PSU either here on the forums or custom built.  It'll save you some $700-800 and it's a well established, very high performance, regulated PSU.
> 
> With the SRD-7 and sigma22 I just saved you about $1k.  Sell the Lambda for a few hundred and you're right on the edge of getting a used SR-007, right where we want you


 
  


ali-pacha said:


> And here is a very cheap SRD-7 Pro : http://www.marktplaats.nl/a/audio-tv-en-foto/luidsprekers/m946032297-stax-srd-7.html?c=a2384ef0ece270f44503df9f8598c624&previousPage=lr
> BTW, you can also have a SRM-1/mk2 Pro for very few bucks : http://www.leboncoin.fr/image_son/819783617.htm?ca=12_s
> 
> Ali


 

 thank you for this food for thought suggestions and patience... i must think about all that... particularly the srd-7 suggestion.... The mojo joule V power supplies can accomodate two different  amp or an amp and a dac with different voltage exigence for exemple and is top notch end of the game.... my obsession with microzotl is in the perspective to buy end of the game amp for 1000 dollars value which will function from the speakers taps for the he 6 and with  pre amping function for my stax srm 252s with tube perfection... ( i dont want to buy a costly amp only for stax in the near future )
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If i had the microzotl i want to explore also the comparison between him and the srd-7 versus srm stax 252s , which by the way preamp now by the Ember is a marvel for the price, the tube pre-amp made ALL the difference for me) thanks to all of you for help best regards to all...


----------



## Rayzilla

As I am seriously considering a 3-year old used pair combined with the SRM-007tII, can I ask those of you that own or have owned the SR-009, how long have you owned it and if there were any problems with them (and how challenging was it to fix the problem)? 

Thanks, I am getting closer...


----------



## TheAttorney

SR-009 problems have already been aired on the Stax SR-009 Channel Imbalance thread. Please read it, as it also contains useful anecdotes about returns.
  
 Some people have experienced problems, most haven't. The exact proportion is not known. However, if a 3 year old model doesn't have the channel imbalance problem at this stage, then it's unlikely to develop it now - unless it's shipped by aeroplane of course


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Maybe pads flatness with time...arnaud ?

 Ali


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> Yes. The 450V Sanyo build of KGSShv I have supplies a good dose warmth for the 009. Pair that with a warm DAC (e.g. I have an Eximus DP-1 that's warm) and you will not get a hint of brightness nor fatigue. I had a touch fatigue with the BHSE when using Amperex/Holland EL34 and 009 -- it is slightly bright overall. However the BHSE is more resolving than even the best KGSShv, so it would be worthwhile to explore with a warmer EL34 (e.g. maybe Mullard, which are definitely a warm tube?). Personally I prefer the warmer balanced KGSShv over the Holland'd BHSE for 009, despite the slightly lower resolution. That said, the BHSE w/ 007 MK1 is far superior to the KGSShv w/ 007 -- but the 009 is clearly the better headphone!


 
 I am knee deep in this subject. If I had the cash I would love both a BHSE with nice tubes and a KGSShv. My own KGSShv does seem warm to me, oddly more so than David's BHSE. However the BHSE has something extra, it is hard to pin it down, a tube midrange, a little more human or realistic? It is close, but the two amps are very different. The BHSE is a capacitor less output stage right? Many tube (most) amps are coupled and the caps change or filter the sound quite a bit. This has led to many over the years thinking tubes warm the sound up or even curtail the treble response. I have heard some top end Audio Note amplifiers and they are not treble shy at all. Thing is it all costs money. The BHSE is an oddball to me, it has a quality that is so good when set up and with the right tubes for the system in it, I personally think it can't be beaten, not by much, maybe a DIY T2? My KGSShv kicks hard and is has great dynamics, it is so close. Maybe it's like flavours of coffee, they all taste good?
  
 I think I am also influenced by my hassles with 300B tubes, and a flexible lifestyle (leaving it on for instant use). I do have a tubed DAC but the tubes are tiny and last 2 years+. They are also cheap to replace.The ownership of a tube amp is a hobby in itself, it needs to be cared for (like a pet) but that has it's own rewards i.e. new tubes can tweak the sound.
  
 But another thing I realised over the years of this hobby and 300B SET systems I have owned as well, is after the demo's and bringing it home, so get used to the fit. As long as the rest of the gear is up to the quality of the BHSE / KGSShv and 009s or 007s, it becomes the norm. Not unlike a pair of great trainers, they just bend to fit your foot, and you use them and forget them, and enjoy the run. If the gear does that you are sorted. The buzz of buying and trying new gear is addictive and very nice, but splitting that away from the enjoyment of the music is required IMO.
  
 Going back to the 007s I agree, they are behind the 009s but they are more forgiving, a great sound can be had with an easier path. It depends if the user can be bothered or has the money. Also at what point they add the 009s onto an existing system. I see many start looking at front end changes post 009 purchase. Thing is the 009s are a drug, once you get addicted, that's it, nothing else will do.


----------



## Rayzilla

theattorney said:


> SR-009 problems have already been aired on the Stax SR-009 Channel Imbalance thread. Please read it, as it also contains useful anecdotes about returns.
> 
> Some people have experienced problems, most haven't. The exact proportion is not known. However, if a 3 year old model doesn't have the channel imbalance problem at this stage, then it's unlikely to develop it now - unless it's shipped by aeroplane of course


 
 Thanks. I'm going to read up on it now. There is also a thread on STAX Defects in another forum.
  
 I just sent a message to the seller to ask if the 009 has/had any channel imbalance issue or any other problems. 
  
 Seems like aeroplane flights seems to affect electrostatics? Someone with the Kingsound had an issue with his headphone or amp, except the aeroplane flight seemed to fix the problem as opposed to cause a problem. lol
  
 I will test them out when I buy them. Is there any special tests for the 009 and the 007tII, being electrostatic? Thanks.


----------



## Rayzilla

Finally read a significant portion of the STAX defects and imbalance issue threads and you kind of summed it up quite nicely. The thread didn't give me too much more. Still undetermined as to the cause of the imbalance problem. It doesn't happen to many it seems but it's more of the price and having something like this happen when you are all excited...


----------



## milosz

thinker said:


> I have heard almost all Stax amps with SR-009,Omega MKI,II,and Lambda series and all phones with Transistoramp V4 the Audiovalve Verto feeded with 100W amp trumps all of them,just talking with 30 years expirience with Stax and Sennheiser Stats and you are twentysomething.I may order in near future for my collection the Spritzer Carbon, not sure if this amp can rival the Verto/MLevinson combo.I already mentioned on earlier posts which are the benefits with Verto transformer,i recommend all Stax lovers to test the transformer with excellent amps.


 
  
 30 years+ listening experience, yeah me too; the thing is, people as old as we are lose the top end of our hearing range.  Something to be said for the 20somethings.


----------



## negura

evetan said:


> I was wondering, for the Sr-009s, are there ways of reducing its brightness? Maybe with an amp pairing?
> 
> Since I am a bit sensitive in the treble, it ended up pretty fatiguing on the BHSE.


 
  
 1. DAC 
 2. Perhaps KGSSHV Sanyo parts
  
  
 All imo. Connected to my Theta the BHSE didn't seem bright or fatiguing at all. My KGSSHV was sweeter sounding though, which is not necessarily good or bad, just how it is.


----------



## preproman

negura said:


> 1. DAC
> 2. Perhaps KGSSHV Sanyo parts
> 
> 
> All imo. Connected to my Theta the BHSE didn't seem bright or fatiguing at all. My KGSSHV was sweeter sounding though, which is not necessarily good or bad, just how it is.


 

 What tubes was the BHSE using?


----------



## negura

preproman said:


> What tubes was the BHSE using?




Nos Valvo I think.


----------



## Earspeakers

milosz said:


> 30 years+ listening experience, yeah me too; the thing is, people as old as we are lose the top end of our hearing range.  Something to be said for the 20somethings.


 

 Don't generally lose it, the sensitivity just goes down. At work a buddy and I pulled out a sig gen and hooked it up to a speaker, distressing to see 3db down at 12 kHz or something. Not like I notice from the inside, music still sounds just as good


----------



## Earspeakers

rayzilla said:


> Seems like aeroplane flights seems to affect electrostatics?


 
 I've gotten some 20 pairs of different new and old Stax from all over the world flown in. Only balance thing was one of them was bought with a channel imbalance issue, which cleared up a few weeks after I got it


----------



## HemiSam

earspeakers said:


> *Don't generally lose it, the sensitivity just goes down.* At work a buddy and I pulled out a sig gen and hooked it up to a speaker, distressing to see 3db down at 12 kHz or something. Not like I notice from the inside, music still sounds just as good


 
  
 Some say potato....
  
 HS


----------



## manywelps

So I have Koss ESP-950s.
  
 I want Stax SR-009s.
  
 I'd like to know what is an appropriate mid-low-level SS electrostatic amp is to use for the SR-009's (Woo Wee?).  (I can save up for a blue hawaii afterwards)
  
 An SRM-1/MKII perhaps?


----------



## b0bb

manywelps said:


> So I have Koss ESP-950s.
> 
> I want Stax SR-009s.
> 
> ...


 

 SRM-323s, it will drive the 009s and 950s quite well, I have them.


----------



## milosz

earspeakers said:


> Don't generally lose it, the sensitivity just goes down. At work a buddy and I pulled out a sig gen and hooked it up to a speaker, distressing to see 3db down at 12 kHz or something. Not like I notice from the inside, music still sounds just as good


 
  
 This is the average age-related hearing change for humans as they age. If you've only lost 3 db at 12 kHz, then you are about 1 in 500,000,000.
  

  
 Also, FYI signal generator and headphones not the same as an audiometric exam.


----------



## MacedonianHero

milosz said:


> This is the average age-related hearing change for humans as they age. If you've only lost 3 db at 12 kHz, then you are about 1 in 500,000,000.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, FYI signal generator and headphones not the same as an audiometric exam.


 
  
 That's depressing.


----------



## milosz

macedonianhero said:


> That's depressing.


 
 Well, just remember that these are thresholds of hearing....  which ALL decline over time, not just the highs.  But the highs do decline a bit more rapidly.


----------



## catspaw

macedonianhero said:


> That's depressing.


 
 Your eyes get worse, your muscles, your looks, your brain, your memory, your health...
  
 I hope I managed to depress you enought for the day, Cheers! .
  
 Women say that Men have 30 and 40 year old crisis when they start buying toys for themselves like Stax HPs. I say we just decide to spend out ourselves insead of them, and I am not ashamed to do that.
  
 So what if we lose hearing? We can still enjoy the music.


----------



## edstrelow

milosz said:


> This is the average age-related hearing change for humans as they age. If you've only lost 3 db at 12 kHz, then you are about 1 in 500,000,000.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, FYI signal generator and headphones not the same as an audiometric exam.


 
 This shows absolute thresholds at minimal sound  levels and is not necessarily the same as sensitivity at normal listening levels. I would be surprised if things would be as bad at higher sound levels.
  
 Hearing loss with age  is also  not normally distributed either, so a simple average can be misleading. I suspect it will show a bimodal or multimodal distribution, I.e. there's the hearing aid crowd, the noise-related hearing loss group (military, gun clubbers, and other noise abusers), those with medical conditions, and then those who are showing just basic age-related declines. It would be misleading to lump them all together as this graph appears to.
  
 Still there is no denying the reality of hearing loss, especially high frequencies in men, starting as early as 18-20.


----------



## milosz

edstrelow said:


> This shows absolute thresholds at minimal sound  levels and is not necessarily the same as sensitivity at normal listening levels. I would be surprised if things would be as bad at higher sound levels.
> 
> Hearing loss with age  is also  not normally distributed either, so a simple average can be misleading. I suspect it will show a bimodal or multimodal distribution, I.e. there's the hearing aid crowd, the noise-related hearing loss group (military, gun clubbers, and other noise abusers), those with medical conditions, and then those who are showing just basic age-related declines. It would be misleading to lump them all together as this graph appears to.
> 
> Still there is no denying the reality of hearing loss, especially high frequencies in men, starting as early as 18-20.


 
  
  
 ...military, gun clubbers, and HEADPHONE ADDICTS....
  
  
 I'm surprised at how dangerously loud many people listen.  I've measured >95 dB average on friends rigs designated by them as "normal listening level."   There is a danger with sound that isn't distorted that the listener will crank it up.
  
  

```
[color=rgb(51, 51, 51)] A-weighted Time it takes to sound level, dB damage hearing hours _________________________________________________ 80................................... 32 81................................... 27.9 82................................... 24.3 83................................... 21.1 84................................... 18.4 85................................... 16 86................................... 13.9 87................................... 12.1 88................................... 10.6 89................................... 9.2 90................................... 8 91................................... 7.0 92................................... 6.1 93................................... 5.3 94................................... 4.6 95................................... 4 96................................... 3.5 97................................... 3.0 98................................... 2.6 99................................... 2.3 100.................................. 2 101.................................. 1.7 102.................................. 1.5 103.................................. 1.3 104.................................. 1.1 105.................................. 1 106.................................. 0.87 107.................................. 0.76 108.................................. 0.66 109.................................. 0.57 110.................................. 0.5 111.................................. 0.44 112.................................. 0.38 113.................................. 0.33 114.................................. 0.29 115.................................. 0.25 116.................................. 0.22 117.................................. 0.19 118.................................. 0.16 119.................................. 0.14 120.................................. 0.125[/color]
```


----------



## Earspeakers

milosz said:


> This is the average age-related hearing change for humans as they age. If you've only lost 3 db at 12 kHz, then you are about 1 in 500,000,000.
> 
> Also, FYI signal generator and headphones not the same as an audiometric exam.


 
  
 Obviously I was being anecdotal.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote:


todams said:


> I have a SR-407 with a broken case holder, could anyone tell me how to remove it without breaking the headband so I could replace it with a new one?


 
  
 Anybody know how to do this?  I've also got a headband in the same condition?


----------



## edstrelow

milosz said:


> ...military, gun clubbers, and HEADPHONE ADDICTS....
> 
> 
> I'm surprised at how dangerously loud many people listen.  I've measured >95 dB average on friends rigs designated by them as "normal listening level."   There is a danger with sound that isn't distorted that the listener will crank it up.
> ...


 
 I have an antique Koss ESP6 electrostatic that has an led on each earcup which flashes when the sound level reaches 95 decibels. Still a pretty good idea to alert people about excessive listening levels.


----------



## n3rdling

What's a "case holder"?


----------



## MacedonianHero

catspaw said:


> Your eyes get worse, your muscles, your looks, your brain, your memory, your health...
> 
> I hope I managed to depress you enought for the day, Cheers! .
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lol, I'm in my early 40s and watching the average loss in the next decade for me wasn't very heartening to say the least. Getting old still beats the alternative though.


----------



## barid

n3rdling said:


> What's a "case holder"?


 
  
 Hold's cases.  I assume....


----------



## AudioCats

catspaw said:


> Your eyes get worse, your muscles, your looks, your brain, your memory, your health...
> 
> I hope I managed to depress you enought for the day, Cheers! .
> 
> ...


 
 on the up side, decision making might become easier due to there are less possible options left. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 say, either get your 009 before the hearing goes south (and get some real use out of it while you still can), or wait and eventually get it, after the hearing goes down.....  Get your 009's, now. Before it is too late.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 (shamelessly enabling)


----------



## kothganesh

^. Speaking of which, had an extended session with the Yggy, KGSShv and the 009. People should hear it and come back and tell me about the extended lower end. That bass is extraordinary. Used to listen to the same set up previously with the Gungnir instead of the Yggy and the latter 's lower end reproduction is just stunning.


----------



## catspaw

Regarding the listening levels and hours that it takes for damage to hearing:
  
 Are those hours in your total life or in a period of time?
  
 I as because it seems rather odd to me that at 80 db you would have 32 hours... 70 dB is after all normal conversation levels, so I wonder if even with something like 70 dB, 1000 hours damage would be enought for everyone to be basically deaf .


----------



## astrostar59

SRM-T2
 Sorry, change of subject. I was looking on Ebay and saw that SRM-T2 is still listed:
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAX-SRM-T2-SPS-T2-the-amplifier-T2-/301688800030?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item463e0dc31e
  
 A few questions. 
 Who would want to buy this based on the known reliability issues with it and the impossible task of getting it repaired, aside from the high price. I am sure Stax wouldn't repair it or have the parts anymore.
  
 Possibly a collector who just has to own it may buy. To me this is different to an audiophile who enjoys using the best equipment, not leaving it on a shelf to gather dust. I guess it is not unlike having a collection of classic cars, though if they are unused even for shows and meets I still don't see the point.
  
 I am much more interested in the DIY community who are currently making versions of the T2 that hopefully will sound amazing and be reliable. It seems the DIY community is far more exciting at the moment as regards stat amplifiers. It will be interesting to see if Stax does bring out an new amplifier designed for the 009 as some suggest.


----------



## maverickronin

n3rdling said:


> What's a "case holder"?


 
  
 That's the official name for the bale which holds the earcup on Lambdas according to the Stax USA website.
  
  





  
 Anyone know how you're supposed to detach it from the headband?


----------



## wink

Quote:astrostar59 





> SRM-T2
> Sorry, change of subject. I was looking on Ebay and saw that SRM-T2 is still listed:


 
 Obviously you have not heard of Wiktor.   Check out his other listings on fleabay


----------



## astrostar59

wink said:


> Obviously you have not heard of Wiktor.   Check out his other listings on fleabay


 
 No I admit I haven't. Why, is there something I need to know about this guy?


----------



## arnaud

He's just one of worst stax flippers the world has known. Ever. That is all...


----------



## John Buchanan

maverickronin said:


> That's the official name for the bale which holds the earcup on Lambdas according to the Stax USA website.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 There are small tubular pins that are pushed into the arc assembly that lock the case holders in position. You can see them as a small hole in the plastic with a metal open cylinder inside. You need the correct sized punch to move the pin out. Make sure you don't lose the pin - it's tiny. The case holder will be easily extracted once the pin is removed. Insert new case holder, replace the pin (it's easier to replace than remove).
 Don't whinge to me if you break your arc assembly removing the pin, however - it's all on your own head if you choose to do this yourself.


----------



## maverickronin

john buchanan said:


> You need the correct sized punch to move the pin out. Make sure you don't lose the pin - it's tiny. The case holder will be easily extracted once the pin is removed.


 
  
 Thanks.  That's what I needed to know.


----------



## n3rdling

maverickronin said:


> That's the official name for the bale which holds the earcup on Lambdas according to the Stax USA website.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Weird translation there.  Have you tried to repair it?  Epoxy, contact cement, or cyanoacrylate should work for most plastics.


----------



## maverickronin

n3rdling said:


> Weird translation there.  Have you tried to repair it?  Epoxy, contact cement, or cyanoacrylate should work for most plastics.


 
  
 I actually don't have the piece than broke off.  I got a ridiculous deal on a whole SRS-2170 plus the Stax headphone stand because one of the arms on the "case holder" was broken off.  I already had a whole spare headband anyway so I jumped on it.  I want to get around to fixing the broken one eventually though.


----------



## John Buchanan

It is an easy repair as long as you have the correct sized punch. Take the phones to a tool shop to buy the correct size. Glueing it together when new parts are $35? False economy.


----------



## astrostar59

Hi all
*Back to the SRM-T2 subject. *
 Has anyone here heard the mighty T2 against a KGSShv or BHSE? And if so, does it stack up and deserve all the hype? Obviously we are ignoring the reliability of the amplifier, only looking at it on sound quality. I asked over at the other place, but may beaten up ......
  
 It is fascinating in this hobby just how far an amplifier design can go, and also fascinating how much there is left to offer in the 007s and 009s. Those headphones never cease to amaze me.


----------



## purk

astrostar59 said:


> Hi all
> *Back to the SRM-T2 subject. *
> Has anyone here heard the mighty T2 against a KGSShv or BHSE? And if so, does it stack up and deserve all the hype? Obviously we are ignoring the reliability of the amplifier, only looking at it on sound quality. I asked over at the other place, but may beaten up ......
> 
> It is fascinating in this hobby just how far an amplifier design can go, and also fascinating how much there is left to offer in the 007s and 009s. Those headphones never cease to amaze me.


 
 I do own all three and the T2 is the best sounding amplifier of the bunch.  It has the warmth and depth of soundstage that is superior to that of the BHSE.  Bass is also punchier compared to the BHSE.  The full-sized KGSSHV is likely the best bang for the buck among the three amplifiers.  The HVs can sound vastly different depending on your parts used as well as power supply rating.  Overall it just lack that sense of transparency and resolution that the BHSE is famous for.  It is also less resolving but the 450V Sanyo part can produce really satisfying bass making it a great match for the SR009.


----------



## n3rdling

I think he's talking about the Stax SRM-T2, not the DIY T2


----------



## astrostar59

purk said:


> I do own all three and the T2 is the best sounding amplifier of the bunch.  It has the warmth and depth of soundstage that is superior to that of the BHSE.  Bass is also punchier compared to the BHSE.  The full-sized KGSSHV is likely the best bang for the buck among the three amplifiers.  The HVs can sound vastly different depending on your parts used as well as power supply rating.  Overall it just lack that sense of transparency and resolution that the BHSE is famous for.  It is also less resolving but the 450V Sanyo part can produce really satisfying bass making it a great match for the SR009.


 
  
  


n3rdling said:


> I think he's talking about the Stax SRM-T2, not the DIY T2


 
 Hi Purk, yes I was asking about the Stax T2. But I read your comments on the KGSShv Sanyo as I have a version of that. It is a great amp with my 009s. I use it with a tubed NOS DAC which I am convinced compliment the treble energy of the 009s i.e. warms it up without loosing anything up top.
  
 In that case with your T2, would you say IYO the T2 you own equals or beats the SRM-T2 original ? (if you have heard the Stax unit).
 I guess yours is a 2 box with lots of venting and bigger heatsinks. I might be wrong but I think the Stax T2 was set to 5.5Ma due to the restrictions of the chassis?
  
 Re BHSE from my listening of David61 against my KGSShv I think you are correct, the transparency and midrange of the BHSE is top drawer. Having said that I liked both amps and could live with either (if I had the cash I would probably have both).


----------



## Ali-Pacha

astrostar59 said:


> In that case with your T2, would you say IYO the T2 you own equals or beats the SRM-T2 original ? (if you have heard the Stax unit).
> I guess yours is a 2 box with lots of venting and bigger heatsinks. I might be wrong but I think the Stax T2 was set to 5.5Ma due to the restrictions of the chassis?


 
 I'm also interested in the answer : would a NOS Stax SRM-T2 be on par with a DIY T2 ? Thermal issues, current, PSU (unregulated on the original), parts, etc...? I've read some statements about original T2, but used units indeed, and reviewers were not so impressed.
  
 Ali


----------



## paradoxper

Isn't the DIY T2 the same parts as the SRM-T2 with a better power supply and thermal management?
 So everything Purk said completely relevant..
  
 And wasn't the current on the SRM-T2 20ma?


----------



## kevin gilmore

amplifier part for part identical.  lots more heatsink
  
 power supply, fully regulated vs completely unregulated.
  
 T2 original spec is 18ma per tube


----------



## NoPants

Did you bias the tubes the same way as in the original? Your schematic mentioned 10 ma. 
  
 Hopefully I can get away with putting some 4686's there, I need that isolation for peace of mind


----------



## uchihaitachi

I had a clearing out of amps a while back and now I am needing some electrostatic amplifiers again!

My conundrums it thus:
Need to drive SR009
I like/need my amplifiers to be uncoloured as possible (closer to 'wire with gain' the better)
I have great offers for SRM727 or SRM007 (very low price) but I understand they aren't fantastic performers, but they can be modded (any vendors willing to do this for me?)
Like the sound of KGSSHV or KGSS but they are so much more expensive (considering buying the Spritzer made one)
Used to own the BHSE (would like something like the BHSE's sound signature) 

Advice would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## NoPants

727 with feedback mod


----------



## uchihaitachi

nopants said:


> 727 with feedback mod




What would the reason be and are there vebdors who do the mod?


----------



## NoPants

easier to mod than the 007, can contact headamp about it


----------



## uchihaitachi

nopants said:


> easier to mod than the 007, can contact headamp about it




Doesn't it sound quite 'warm'


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I recently had my SRM-727 modded, and it's quite pleasant with SR-009 : less dynamic oddity / non-linearity, tighter bass, no more shouty high-mids.
 Warmer than my SRM-1/mk2, but it works pretty well with SR-009, which are a bit on the bright side of things (especially with too DS /sabre-y DACs)

 Ali


----------



## georgep

nopants said:


> Did you bias the tubes the same way as in the original? Your schematic mentioned 10 ma.
> 
> Hopefully I can get away with putting some 4686's there, I need that isolation for peace of mind



You don't need to worry about the 3675 if you use the ceramic pads and pps shoulder washers. Otherwise you will need to change the recipe a bit to get the 4686 to work.


----------



## NoPants

Do you have a part number? I assume whatever you used didn't require reaming the tabs, or you would have mentioned it by now.


----------



## rgs9200m

I have now a KGSS-HV mini (1st version, 400 volts) and it's very very good. The 009 can still be sort of hyped or treble-centric on vocals mainly, but some care + feeding with cables and a decent warm-up period almost eliminates that.
 I listened for hours and it was sweet and addictive and full of that one-of-a-kind 009-insight and you can sense how this amp just takes control of these phones and can take you on a wild musical ride. No, the 009 is not for the faint of heart,
 but when treated right, it's in class by itself for detail. I know the reviews say the BHSE is better, but I'm happy with this solid state beauty.


----------



## georgep

nopants said:


> Do you have a part number? I assume whatever you used didn't require reaming the tabs, or you would have mentioned it by now.


 
  
 Will pm you.


----------



## AnakChan

rgs9200m said:


> I have now a KGSS-HV mini (1st version, 400 volts) and it's very very good. The 009 can still be sort of hyped or treble-centric on vocals mainly, but some care + feeding with cables and a decent warm-up period almost eliminates that.
> I listened for hours and it was sweet and addictive and full of that one-of-a-kind 009-insight and you can sense how this amp just takes control of these phones and can take you on a wild musical ride. No, the 009 is not for the faint of heart,
> but when treated right, it's in class by itself for detail. I know the reviews say the BHSE is better, but I'm happy with this solid state beauty.


 


 What did you used to have to drive your 009's? I've been using the Electra and in Tokyo we had a Stax amp meet last month, the Electra was the most "mid-ish" of the lot. The KGST (1st prototype??) felt rather mellow, and (naturally) the BHSE bested the lot in pretty much every aspect.


----------



## rgs9200m

I have the Stax 007t/2  amp that I put new RCA cleartop tubes in and did rebiasing. It was a big improvement from the original. I wanted to go solid state since I use a tube amp for my dynamic phones, and that's enough to deal with.


----------



## MacedonianHero

rgs9200m said:


> I have now a KGSS-HV mini (1st version, 400 volts) and it's very very good. The 009 can still be sort of hyped or treble-centric on vocals mainly, but some care + feeding with cables and a decent warm-up period almost eliminates that.
> I listened for hours and it was sweet and addictive and full of that one-of-a-kind 009-insight and you can sense how this amp just takes control of these phones and can take you on a wild musical ride. No, the 009 is not for the faint of heart,
> but when treated right, it's in class by itself for detail. I know the reviews say the BHSE is better, but I'm happy with this solid state beauty.


 
  
 Congrats on youre new amp. The differences between the KGSSHV and the SRM007II or SRM727II were quite drastic to my ears (a good thing).


----------



## Rossliew

If i may chime in, a good DAC also makes a noticeable difference as to how enjoyable the sound would be. I have been using a Gungnir with my KGST/007 rig and when i swapped the Gungnir with a modest DIY battery-powered NOS Dac by Starting Point Systems, WOW! the rig sounded more musical and there was, for lack of a better word, truth of timbre? It may not sound as transparent but it sounded right and music was more engaging. I can safely say a NOS DAC upstream is truly a good idea!
  
 I missed out on a good deal for a used Metrum Hex so if anyone wants to sell me theirs (230V), please PM me!
  
 Sorry for veering off track a bit there


----------



## MacedonianHero

rossliew said:


> If i may chime in, a good DAC also makes a noticeable difference as to how enjoyable the sound would be. I have been using a Gungnir with my KGST/007 rig and when i swapped the Gungnir with a modest DIY battery-powered NOS Dac by Starting Point Systems, WOW! the rig sounded more musical and there was, for lack of a better word, truth of timbre? It may not sound as transparent but it sounded right and music was more engaging. I can safely say a NOS DAC upstream is truly a good idea!
> 
> I missed out on a good deal for a used Metrum Hex so if anyone wants to sell me theirs (230V), please PM me!
> 
> Sorry for veering off track a bit there


 
  
 Very good point...I find the SR-009s (and the HD800s) are quite revealing and picky of the DAC too.


----------



## Rossliew

Yeah Peter, the Stax rig is pretty transparent and it would make more sense to roll DACs rather than amps/cans LOL.
  
 Btw, do you mind checking if the Metrum has switchable voltage (110/230)? Thanks in advance


----------



## MacedonianHero

rossliew said:


> Yeah Peter, the Stax rig is pretty transparent and it would make more sense to roll DACs rather than amps/cans LOL.
> 
> Btw, do you mind checking if the Metrum has switchable voltage (110/230)? Thanks in advance


 
  
 Sorry, it doesn't appear to have switchable voltage (110/230).


----------



## Rossliew

ahh..too bad, i can't get the Pavane on sale here..thanks anyway, Peter.


----------



## rgs9200m

I use an EMM cdp for the Stax setup here. Thanks MacHero--'appreciate it.


----------



## 290752

Hi all,
  
 Coming from LCD's, my Stax setup is very disappointing with the lower bass.
  
 I have the SRM-727II(stock) with SR-507, and for me, the sound is very disappointing. 
  
 Apart from its very fast, detailed sound, the lower bass is very thin and lacking.
  
 Is this the Stax house sound that takes time to get used to?


----------



## astrostar59

kepler28nm said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Coming from LCD's, my Stax setup is very disappointing with the lower bass.
> 
> ...


 
 Your LCD's if the LCD2 or LCD3 are known to be bass energised so to speak. It is a sound you have come from and no doubt got used to / like.
 The SR-507 is a modern incarnation of the older Lambda range that was well known to be bass shy but had great transparency and stage width.
 These 2 systems are widely different, and I am afraid if you like the bass heavy energy of the LCDs you may need to go back to that.
  
 On the other hand, if you can go further into Stax land, and get the SR-007s then you will have the best of both worlds IMO. I don't like the 727 amp, and prefer the previous 717 as sounding better and having more drive / bass / dynamics. The rest of the current Stax amps won't do more IMO either, you need to be looking at a KGSS or other DIY amps really. What amp did you use for the LCDs?
  
 I would strongly recommend you don't give up on Stax, and buy second hand if need be, but you need to get to the 007s to beat your old LCDs IMO, plus a better amp than the 727.
  
 Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear? On a positive, once you get to 007 or even the 009s you are in world class territory, you won't be disappointed....


----------



## paradoxper

Best amp ever is the Verto piece of **** box. Just cancelled my T2.


----------



## 290752

astrostar59 said:


> Your LCD's if the LCD2 or LCD3 are known to be bass energised so to speak. It is a sound you have come from and no doubt got used to / like.
> The SR-507 is a modern incarnation of the older Lambda range that was well known to be bass shy but had great transparency and stage width.
> These 2 systems are widely different, and I am afraid if you like the bass heavy energy of the LCDs you may need to go back to that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I heard many headfier's mention the mods for the 727. Would this "save" the amp, or does this make only minor improvements that isn't worth the time and money?
  
 I was using WA7 with upgraded tubes, but I'm pairing it with Gustard H10 (its like magic for only 300!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
  
 Should I buy 009 and be done with my stax adventure? I would hate having revisiting nightmares because I stuck with 007 instead of 009.


----------



## Jones Bob

kepler28nm said:


> Should I buy 009 and be done with my stax adventure?




You would just be beginning your Stax adventure, exploring upgrading the rest of your system to match its TOTL performance.


----------



## rgs9200m

No, don't get a stax amp. Get a Mjolnir KGSS-HV (full size or mini version). Then you can get the 009 (which are incredibly cheap now due to global forces beyond your control).


----------



## 290752

Dang, I wanted to tread the last steps in my ortho journey by buying a LCD 3 and gsx. I guess I have to start saving for this expensive hobby of mine


----------



## astrostar59

kepler28nm said:


> I heard many headfier's mention the mods for the 727. Would this "save" the amp, or does this make only minor improvements that isn't worth the time and money?
> 
> I was using WA7 with upgraded tubes, but I'm pairing it with Gustard H10 (its like magic for only 300!!!
> 
> ...



 


Can you take the 507 and 727 amp back to the dealer? I don't think that was the system for you. The Stax systems are expensive once you get to 007 and 009 level.
I think you need to look hard at your budgets going forward, and go to some meets or find an 007/009 user who can demo with a KGSS or KGSShv with your favourite tracks, so you can be sure.

Then you can hear if that is what you are after long term, and start looking for a second hand 007 and a KGSS (for example). A new 009 and a Woo or other commercial stat amp is big money, you need to be committed to go that route.

If you find you are hovering after a demo, you may be best sticking with an LCD2 or LCD3 as they are cheaper to amp and buy the phones. The stats give you other things above Planars, Planars give a lot at a lower cost (on the whole). 

If it was me, I would swop out the 727 and 507s for a 007 phone and look for a second hand KGSS on this forum or if money is tight a good example SRM-717 which is better than the 727. I use that amp quite a lot with my 007As and it sounds great.

Good luck with your journey.


----------



## Moonhead

I Agree with Astrostar to swop your 727 + 507 for some Stax 007 or at least go audition some different gear. 
 Im not sure any Stax will provide that hard hitting Audeze bass, but its a very different bass bloom and much more clean and lifelike. 
 009 have more low bass and more clear with extended highs and not as forgivin as 007, which is a better all-around can that has somewhat same sound signature as Audeze just with superior detail, they shouldnt really be compared IMO.
 Just remember Stax gear can very fragile, but if you dont mind that you can get a better system with 007 or 009 + KGSSHV, than any speaker system, IMHO.


----------



## Pokemonn

kepler28nm said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Coming from LCD's, my Stax setup is very disappointing with the lower bass.
> 
> ...


 
 SRM-727II is not good amp.
 please read Tyll's articles about amps below.
  
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/listening-great-headphone-amplifiers-and-stax-sr-900


----------



## Ali-Pacha

SRM-727 can easily be modded. Once done, you have an amp at the 717´s level, with better build quality. Unfortunately, it's lot more expensive, especially in Europe. In the US, you can have it new and modded from Justin @ headamp, and the msrp isn't as silly as in Europe.

Ali


----------



## rgs9200m

From listening at a show with a Woo Wes with a real-time A/B comparison, my impression is that the Stax 009 and 007 are both great choices, but only the 009 really soars into the territory of extreme transparency and speed and detail. I own the 009 (as I  said a bit earlier in this thread) with a KGSS-HV now and I feel my setup is even better than the Woo (but of course it's with a different source than the Woo). 
  
 From what I recall of the 007 phone, I feel the Audeze LCD3 and now also the Ether and HE1000 sound just as insightful, with equivalent speed and detail, and with more profound bass and a fuller musical atmosphere and listening environment.
 I actually used to own the SR007 (mk1) for years but only with a little Stax 007t amp (version 1), so that really didn't do the SR007 justice, so I'm not basing my opinions on that experience.
  
 So,  to summarize (grossly of course), IMHO SR007 (slightly) < (new crop of flagship mag-planars) < SR009. The SR009 is in a class by itself, but you do need to treat it right with upstream input (including compatible cables and sources) to get it to sound its best without traces of fatigue in the treble. I would not trade my SR009 for anything.
  
 Maybe a BHSE or the newest generation KG amps push the SR007 to new heights, but I have not heard this so I cannot comment. (I'd actually like to hear what those who have think of this kind of setup vs. the new mag-planars in terms of detail and transparency and overall musicality).


----------



## Rossliew

I have a pair of 007 Mk II driven by a Mjolnir built KGST which i would say make a very beautiful pairing. The 007 has hard hitting bass and the treble is extended with good, airy presence. Again, source is important - a NOS DAC really builds upon the musicality IMO.


----------



## astrostar59

rossliew said:


> I have a pair of 007 Mk II driven by a Mjolnir built KGST which i would say make a very beautiful pairing. The 007 has hard hitting bass and the treble is extended with good, airy presence. Again, source is important - a NOS DAC really builds upon the musicality IMO.


 
 Actually a DIY commissioned or Mjolnir built KGST with the 007s is not so different re costs than an LCD3 and a good amp. There is also the KGST for those wanting tubes in the path. Planars are clicking on the 007s heals I agree, but if you hear the 007 and a KGSShv or KGST/KGSS I would say you will be hooked. Then the path to the 009 is a cert IMO. Planars are not going to do it IMO.
  
 Ha Ha this hobby is nuts! 
  
 Planars, the bass power of those phones can be a problem for me. Coming from the days of being a mobile DJ, you know the ears can 'close off' once exposed to a lot of bass energy, and this in turn translates to the loss of treble and detail retrieval in the midrange. i.e. after 20 minutes you are not hearing those details you crave. The 007s and 009s to me have enough of both frequency spectrum to hold that detail into longer sessions, I just think excess bass energy can 'bore your ears' it just looses it's attraction after a while. Remember most of the information in music is in the midrange and that mustn't be 'drowned out'.
  
 Planar fans can attack me now! Anyway, this is my view having 2 systems based around the 007 and 009 and 2 KGSShv amps. I do accept the LCD2 and a half decent amp is very good and low cost, Stax cannot compete at that price level, but as the stakes go up.....


----------



## preproman

rossliew said:


> I have a pair of 007 Mk II driven by a Mjolnir built KGST which i would say make a very beautiful pairing. The 007 has hard hitting bass and the treble is extended with good, airy presence. Again, source is important - a NOS DAC really builds upon the musicality IMO.


 
  
 I agree with this..  I also have the Abyss, HE1Ks and just sold the LCD-3Fs.  I also have a 70xxx 007 MK1 and a SZ3 007 MK2.  On the KGST which is a very good amp the Stax are still above the new crop of Planar's.  Of course IMO.
  
 The bass on the Abyss is a different story - other than that, total transparency or looking through a crystal clear / clean window, the Stax has more of that. 
  
 The HE1K comes close, but it still lacks the impact of the Stax and the midrange on the stax are a step above as well.


----------



## PATB

I can't give detailed listening impressions about the SR 007 MK2 because I sold mine years ago.  But I did months of  listening using a Meridian G08 as a source, comparing the SR007 driven by a headamp KGSS and my favorite dynamics at the time, HD650, Sony Qualia 010, and RS1 driven balanced by a Singlepower SDS-XLR.  My conclusion was that although the SR007 was technically superior, it was not that far ahead of the HD650 etc.  And the SR007 was the least comfortable (my ears would get hot) and most finicky (stax fart etc.).  So I sold the SR007/KGSS.  I still regret it, because there was no reason I could not have kept both systems.  Oh well, not selling headphone systems again.
  
 Fast forward 8+ years later, and I had the chance to briefly listen to a KGSSHV driving an SR009, and I could tell right off the bat that the SR009 is a different beast.  Mine is now on its way from Japan, and I will pair it with a KGSSHV from NoPants.  Would I prefer the SR009 over my present headphones?  Not so sure, I need months to decide these things.  But I wont sell the Stax system regardless .  And I might even reacquire another SR007 MK2.  This time for keeps.
  
 I have not heard the LCD3, but from what I can gather, the SR007 will be at most a side grade.


----------



## Moonhead

After i listen to 007 mkI + KGSSHV i really couldnt figure out why people went for LCD3 + Amp, because they are clearly in the same price range to get the best out of them and 007 are clearly miles ahead of LCD3 even on comfort and maybe even more reliable and they share that same warm realxed sound, but 007 is detailed, LCD3 not so much!!


----------



## rgs9200m

Uh-oh, now you people are making me think I should give the SR007 another try...


----------



## soren_brix

preproman said:


> I agree with this..  I also have the Abyss, HE1Ks and just sold the LCD-3Fs.  I also have a 70xxx 007 MK1 and a SZ3 007 MK2.  On the KGST which is a very good amp the Stax are still above the new crop of Planar's.  Of course IMO.


 
 How late a SZ3 do you have? and how does it compare to you 70xxx?


----------



## preproman

soren_brix said:


> How late a SZ3 do you have? and how does it compare to you 70xxx?


 

 I'm at SN# 1988.  The MK2 has a small mid bass bump, the MK1 seems more even across the FR.  Both have very smooth highs and pretty good bass.


----------



## soren_brix

preproman said:


> I'm at SN# 1988.  The MK2 has a small mid bass bump, the MK1 seems more even across the FR.  Both have very smooth highs and pretty good bass.


 
 So you don't hear much difference between your mkII and the SZ3 then?


----------



## Jones Bob

preproman said:


> I'm at SN# 1988.  The MK2 has a small mid bass bump, the MK1 seems more even across the FR.  Both have very smooth highs and pretty good bass.


 
 Over at The Site That Shall Never Be Mentioned On Head-Fi, do a search for: Stax SR-007Mk2/SR-007A port mod.
  
 Pretty much cleans up that bump. But will not turn a SR-007 Mk2 into an SR-009


----------



## preproman

I'm not sure what SN they're up to now, the bump on these are not offensive at all. I'm thinking the later ones are much more improved in that area compared to the earlier production units. So I can do with out the mod.  I had a pair of 007As that was modded by Spritzer.  I didn't like them as much - I sold them..


----------



## soren_brix

preproman said:


> I'm not sure what SN they're up to now, the bump on these are not offensive at all. I'm thinking the later ones are much more improved in that area compared to the earlier production units. So I can do with out the mod.  I had a pair of 007As that was modded by Spritzer.  I didn't like them as much - I sold them..


 
 Why didn't you like them?


----------



## preproman

They didn't sound as transparent as these - more on the veiled side.  These have a more open sound / more air.


----------



## soren_brix

preproman said:


> They didn't sound as transparent as these - more on the veiled side.  These have a more open sound / more air.


 
 is that in comparison to either or?


----------



## astrostar59

soren_brix said:


> So you don't hear much difference between your mkII and the SZ3 then?


 
 I am unsure if the Stax numbering can be trusted (according to Spritzer). I had an SZ3XXXX (Black UK) last year and it was not as smooth or detailed as the 007A I got a few eels back from PJ which bizarrely is marked SZ2XXXX. Go figure.
  
 But I am not complaining, my new 007A sounds great, closer to my 009, and has good bass and it is tight i.e. not flabby or boomy, but has lots f texture. I am wondering if Satx has tweaked the drivers again. Maybe they tweak the drivers at various points in production since the first MK1. It may explain the differences we seem to be hearing?
 Of course Stax don't admit anything....


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> I am unsure if the Stax numbering can be trusted (according to Spritzer). I had an SZ3XXXX (Black UK) last year and it was not as smooth or detailed as the 007A I got a few eels back from PJ which bizarrely is marked SZ2XXXX. Go figure.
> 
> But I am not complaining, my new 007A sounds great, closer to my 009, and has good bass and it is tight i.e. not flabby or boomy, but has lots f texture. I am wondering if Satx has tweaked the drivers again. Maybe they tweak the drivers at various points in production since the first MK1. It may explain the differences we seem to be hearing?
> Of course Stax don't admit anything....


 
 isn't the SZ3 export and SZ2 still continued for Japan only?


----------



## astrostar59

soren_brix said:


> isn't the SZ3 export and SZ2 still continued for Japan only?


 
 I remember seeing Black 007s with SZ2XXXX. It is all very confusing. But regardless I am absolutely convinced my later 007As SZ2XXXX sound better than the roughly 2012 Black 007 MK3s SZXXXX. I would sum up the change in sound as tighter and fuller bass, cleaner and more detailed high frequencies, mids about the same. Overall more alive and transparent. Oddly they seem more efficient as well.


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> I remember seeing Black 007s with SZ2XXXX. It is all very confusing. But regardless I am absolutely convinced my later 007As SZ2XXXX sound better than the roughly 2012 Black 007 MK3s SZXXXX.


 
  
 So how many how seen blacks SZ2? ....AFAIK the blacks are export only


----------



## EveTan

Isn't the all black 007s the MK2.5 ver whereas the 007A is considered MKII?


----------



## Jones Bob

Bought a pair of Black SR-007 Mk2 from Yama this last Memorial Day on sale. Listened to them probably 5-6 times before they were put back in their case and are sitting now in the hall closet. Way too veiled and lifeless compared to SR-009. Maybe got one from an old batch. Will check my serial number tonight. 
  
 My SR-009 on KGST sound SO MUCH better, it is not even close.
  
 Currently working on a KGSSHV-CARBON to see if that can drive the SR-007 Mk2 better.


----------



## rgs9200m

Looking forward to any Carbon comments Mr. Jones... thx.


----------



## Jones Bob

It will be awhile.


----------



## Jones Bob

Just checked. The SR-007 Mk2 have a serial number SZ3XXXX. 

Listening now, they are not as bad as I remembered or written earlier. Not bad at all, but I prefer to listen to the SR-009. Just has more "there" there with the 009.


----------



## rgs9200m

Yeah, I think everything sounds less real next to the 009. There's just something about the 009 that's puts it on an island where nothing compares. It's spellbinding and shows up new little things and facts in old recordings that I've known for decades. It's a real trip to listen to these things. And it does it without being buzzy or sandpapery like some speakers do that have a case of metal tweeteritus. It has incredible detail while also being continuous and silky and musical. I never even heard a speaker do this.


----------



## 290752

Thanks for the replies everyone, I appreciate it.
  
 I bought the 727 second hand from a HFier, so not sure if he wants to take it back...
  
 I listened to it maybe for 12 hours MAX realistically 8 hours before I gave up.
  
 I think stax is maybe not the journey I want to take as you guys mentioned its very costly...
  
 Are the modern lambda series really bad compared to the higher end models like the 007 or even the 009?
  
 I was thinking if I can keep one of the units, it would save a lot of money for me as apposed to selling it for used, and buying a different gear.


----------



## paradoxper

Sell the 507. Sell the 727. Sell your LCD's. Buy an SR-009 with 323. Put in an order for BHSE or perhaps
 pick up a KGSSHV-Carbon. Enjoy the rest of your life.


----------



## uchihaitachi

paradoxper said:


> Sell the 507. Sell the 727. Sell your LCD's. Buy an SR-009 with 323. Put in an order for BHSE or perhaps
> pick up a KGSSHV-Carbon. Enjoy the rest of your life.




By 323 do you mean 323S? Also is the 323s better than the 007 and 727?

By better I mean uncoloured and transparent. (Flat response etc.)


----------



## paradoxper

uchihaitachi said:


> By 323 do you mean 323S? Also is the 323s better than the 007 and 727?
> 
> By better I mean uncoloured and transparent. (Flat response etc.)


 
 Yes.
  
 Not a fan of the Stax amps. The 323S is very good and I don't feel is missing anything compared
 to either 007 or 727 and that's really with or without the feedback mod applied.
  
 Another level are the KG designed amps.


----------



## uchihaitachi

Could you possibly elaborate more on the merits of 323 over the other stax amps? Will be grateful for the feedback. In addition, does the 323 also offer higher voltage swing?


----------



## paradoxper

uchihaitachi said:


> Could you possibly elaborate more on the merits of 323 over the other stax amps? Will be grateful for the feedback. In addition, does the 323 also offer higher voltage swing?


 
 The 323 just sounded more transparent. It didn't lack in bass nor did vocals seem less natural or anything.
 Now, the warmer sound from the 727 can be a welcomed addition if that's your thing. Not mine.
 In other words, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
  
 I believe they are the same.


----------



## soren_brix

uchihaitachi said:


> Could you possibly elaborate more on the merits of 323 over the other stax amps? Will be grateful for the feedback. In addition, does the 323 also offer higher voltage swing?


 
 the 323 might be the best of the available Stax amps, but as Paradoxper states, the KG designs is at another level ...which is pretty much true for the KGSS, KGSShv, KGST, Carbon, and I assume (haven't heard) the KGDT, BH, Megatron and T2 DIY ....you will be far better off using an old Lambda and a KG design, if you don't want to jump to 007/009s


----------



## 290752

paradoxper said:


> Sell the 507. Sell the 727. Sell your LCD's. Buy an SR-009 with 323. Put in an order for BHSE or perhaps
> pick up a KGSSHV-Carbon. Enjoy the rest of your life.


 

 Sigh there goes my beautiful headphones collection


----------



## paradoxper

kepler28nm said:


> Sigh there goes my beautiful headphones collection


 
 For greener pastures.


----------



## uchihaitachi

I see I remember Kevin gilmore and spritz also saying the 323 is the best out of the Stax amps. If memory serves me correctly.


----------



## manywelps

Any opinions on the SRM-1/MK2 Pro while we're on the subject of amps?


----------



## soren_brix

manywelps said:


> Any opinions on the SRM-1/MK2 Pro while we're on the subject of amps?


 
 Spritzer quotes from various posts here and the other place:
 "the srm-t1, t1s and 006t are virtually identical. (solid state/tube hybrid)"
  
 "SRM-1 Mk1 was pretty much the same circuit as the SRA-12S but turned on its head.  Similar AC coupled output stage.  I recently refurbished one of these and it is a nice little amp but the SRA-12S is better over all. "
  
 "SRM-1 Mk2 is where things get tricky since there are so many variations of it.  The first ones were some weird Mk1/Mk2 hybrid though fully DC coupled but later units are much more similar to the current crop of Stax amps like the 313.  Now the amps are fully balanced from input to output though most only have RCA inputs. "
  
 "SRM-600LTD is the same basic circuit as the T1/006t but modified to take the ECC99 tube. "
  
 "The 313 and 323 are 3 stage amplifiers. Same or similar to all the transportables (srmXh,srm151,srm252)"

 Hope it clarify things a bit


----------



## Ali-Pacha

From what I've read, SRM-1/mk2 pro use to have a bit higher consideration than SRM-323...but you have to get a C version (or P.P.), and have the PS caps changed.
  
 Ali


----------



## mulveling

kepler28nm said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone, I appreciate it.
> 
> I bought the 727 second hand from a HFier, so not sure if he wants to take it back...
> 
> ...


 
 It is not appropriate to ask a private seller to take back a properly functioning amp, unless there is a _reasonable_ dispute in the description of its cosmetic condition. But if you bought it 2nd hand, then you should be able to resell it without much loss, unless you got a terrible deal (but that's on you).
  
 The old Lambda Pro is a wonderfully balanced headphone that can be obtained for far less than the cost of a 007 or 009. If you paired the Pro with a KGSS or KGSShv, then I'd be very surprised if you were anything less than extremely happy. I've heard a stock 727 and can confirm it's pretty awful. I've also heard a Lambda Signature, which has a brighter balance than the Pro, and I'm not a fan of that. So you can definitely put together a pretty awful sounding Stax system (unfortunately), and it looks like you got one of them (unfortunately). The Stax route offers the highest heights in headphones, and also some extremely good value points below that, but it does have a higher requirement towards education & research.


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> It is not appropriate to ask a private seller to take back a properly functioning amp, unless there is a _reasonable_ dispute in the description of its cosmetic condition. But if you bought it 2nd hand, then you should be able to resell it without much loss, unless you got a terrible deal (but that's on you).
> 
> The old Lambda Pro is a wonderfully balanced headphone that can be obtained for far less than the cost of a 007 or 009. If you paired the Pro with a KGSS or KGSShv, then I'd be very surprised if you were anything less than extremely happy. I've heard a stock 727 and can confirm it's pretty awful. I've also heard a Lambda Signature, which has a brighter balance than the Pro, and I'm not a fan of that. So you can definitely put together a pretty awful sounding Stax system (unfortunately), and it looks like you got one of them (unfortunately). The Stax route offers the highest heights in headphones, and also some extremely good value points below that, but it does have a higher requirement towards education & research.


 
 I agree with some of that. But I go back to my point. I would sell / take back the 507 and get an 007A from PJ. Use your 727 amp to run it. The 727 can be modded easily (Spritzer post) to be like a 717 which I have used a lot with the 007As. In fact listening right now with a little Metrum Octave DAC. No way you would be disappointed in that sound, trust me.
  
 Then later when you have some more funds, sell the 727 for minimal loss and get a KGSS or KGSShv on here in the ads and then be in heaven. Hang in there, it is worth it! IMO the latest 007A is really damb good, not far behind my 009s and they cost a 3rd of the money. The 007 has real bass power and texture, plus the famous Stax mids and treble details you are after. The 507 is getting some of that but not the rest IMO.


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> I agree with some of that. But I go back to my point. I would sell / take back the 507 and get an 007A from PJ. Use your 727 amp to run it. The 727 can be modded easily (Spritzer post) to be like a 717 which I have used a lot with the 007As. In fact listening right now with a little Metrum Octave DAC. No way you would be disappointed in that sound, trust me.
> 
> Then later when you have some more funds, sell the 727 for minimal loss and get a KGSS or KGSShv on here in the ads and then be in heaven. Hang in there, it is worth it! IMO the latest 007A is really damb good, not far behind my 009s and they cost a 3rd of the money. The 007 has real bass power and texture, plus the famous Stax mids and treble details you are after. The 507 is getting some of that but not the rest IMO.


 
 I'll defer to your experience there. The stock 727 absolutely sucks, but I know it can be modded. And the stock 727 *really sucks* with the 007 Mk I, but the 007A w/ modded 727 is hopefully a different beast altogether. I got a taste of the good lambda/bad lambda thing with Lambda Pro vs. Lambda Signature, and I'm confident that the Pro with a KGSS/KGSShv makes a damn good system. But a less-dark and more efficient 007 (as people say the 007A is) would be quite awesome -- I have a 007 Mk I and it's really quite nice, but I'm not buying into the "magic" of this particular version, unless paired with a BHSE -- I find it a bit too dark.


----------



## manywelps

ali-pacha said:


> From what I've read, SRM-1/mk2 pro use to have a bit higher consideration than SRM-323...but you have to get a C version (or P.P.), and have the PS caps changed.
> 
> Ali


 
 Thanks, is there a guide for me to figure out which version I have?


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> I'll defer to your experience there. The stock 727 absolutely sucks, but I know it can be modded. And the stock 727 *really sucks* with the 007 Mk I, but the 007A w/ modded 727 is hopefully a different beast altogether. I got a taste of the good lambda/bad lambda thing with Lambda Pro vs. Lambda Signature, and I'm confident that the Pro with a KGSS/KGSShv makes a damn good system. But a less-dark and more efficient 007 (as people say the 007A is) would be quite awesome -- I have a 007 Mk I and it's really quite nice, but I'm not buying into the "magic" of this particular version, unless paired with a BHSE -- I find it a bit too dark.


 
 Totally agree mulvelling. I think a PJ sources 007A powered by the 717 amp is really nice and gets the guy up there and on the way. Then sell the 727 on and buy a second hand KGSS. 
  
 I used to have the LNS and before that 2 versions of the LN Pro. I hated the LN Pro, it was too bright, had that dreaded treble etch and had poor bass. The LNS was much better but way behind the 007. The 507 is more or less the same IMO as the LNS, maybe a bit brighter, like a watered down 009. To me though, until he gets into 007 territory is is NOT going to be happy after the lush and bass sound of the LCDs.
  
 I just don't see any 507 or LN phones doing it for him.


----------



## manywelps

Is it that letter on the back in front of the serial?  Because I've got 2 SRM-1s, one has A, one has B.


----------



## rgs9200m

Curious about the cost comment about the SR007 being a third of the SR009 cost*. At PJ/eBay, the SR007 is about $1700+, and the SR009 is about $2700+. I *do* like (love, actually) the sound of my 009... A transcendent experience.
 (All this is not exactly cheap, as it needs a KGSSHV though. At least it doesn't really need a BHSE, so look at the bright side of life, as they say in Life of Brian.)
  
 {*footnote: post 5550 above:  "IMO the latest 007A is really damb good, not far behind my 009s and they cost a 3rd of the money. "}


----------



## AudioCats

manywelps said:


> Is it that letter on the back in front of the serial?  Because I've got 2 SRM-1s, one has A, one has B.


 

 from what I have read here, the A/B/C doesn't really matter much, though the more desirable P/P version is only available in C serial #'s.


----------



## rgs9200m

People often mistakenly think that some particular headphone will change your life. This is only true for the Stax SR009.


----------



## HemiSam

HS


----------



## manywelps

audiocats said:


> manywelps said:
> 
> 
> > Is it that letter on the back in front of the serial?  Because I've got 2 SRM-1s, one has A, one has B.
> ...


 
 That's the kind with 2 pro ports on the front?
  
 Is it more desirable due to sound?


----------



## PATB

Just received my SR-009 from PJ, and I am glad to say there is no channel imbalance
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I went home early and listened to it for 3 hours; wanted to listen longer but, unfortunately, this is a work night.
  
 My system is a Tascam CD-200 => Coax => Teac UD-301 => Cardas Golden Reference XLR => KGSSHV => SR-009.  My KGSSHV is from NoPants: Sanyo parts, BHSE power supply, +/-400V.
  
  I am just going to go over my initial concerns in getting the system, as there are much better reviews of the SR-009 on this site.
  
 1) Comfort.  This was my major concern based on my previous Stax experience.  Having used an HD650 as a primary headphone for 10+ years, the SR-009 constantly reminds me that I am wearing a headphone.  However, 1 hour into the listening session, I kind of forgot about that.  So comfort is OK but not ideal.  I am sure I will get used to this so long as I don't keep using the HD650 or the Ether that I should receive next week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 2) Treble.  I am somewhat sensitive to treble, so I like dark headphones.  I keep an RS-1 for variety, but most of my listening is with the HD650.  I am surprised that the SR-009 has extended treble without being harsh and fatiguing.  Amazing.  I could have kept listening forever, if not for my family wanting me to help out in the house 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 3) Source.  I had the impression that the SR-009 requires a killer source.  So far, I am surprised that the lowly Teac UD-301 more than hold its own (I set it to no upsampling).  My other source is being repaired and I am looking for another source. But I am in no hurry.
  
 4) KGSSHV.  Being solid state, I expected the KGSSHV to be harsh and bright.  Nope.  Thanks NoPants (for the excellent build quality and fair price) and Kevin Gilmore (for designing these amps for the community).
  
 This is a good time to get an SR-009.  The price is relatively low right now because of the strong dollar, and there are plenty of KG amps that can be had for a reasonable price.  
  
 What's next for me?  A source, an SR-007 MK2, and another KG stax amp!


----------



## Ali-Pacha

patb said:


> 1) Comfort.  This was my major concern based on my previous Stax experience.  Having used an HD650 as a primary headphone for 10+ years, the SR-009 constantly reminds me that I am wearing a headphone.  However, 1 hour into the listening session, I kind of forgot about that.  So comfort is OK but not ideal.  I am sure I will get used to this so long as I don't keep using the HD650 or the Ether that I should receive next week


 
 Your HD650 must be very (very) loose, because their strong clamping makes me feel a bit claustrophobic, like I'm wearing a too tight wooly cap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 SR-009 is heavier but more comfy IMO.
  
 Quote:


patb said:


> 3) Source.  I had the impression that the SR-009 requires a killer source.  So far, I am surprised that the lowly Teac UD-301 more than hold its own (I set it to no upsampling).  My other source is being repaired and I am looking for another source. But I am in no hurry.



 Indeed. Some say that low-fi Delta-Sigma sources are the reason why people could find SR-009 too bright / harsh in the treble.

 Ali


----------



## preproman

I use and compare two very different DACS with my 009 / KGST setup.  The Bricasti M1 and the TotalDAC Dual.  The M1 does not show any sign of hash / harsh or bright treble.  The only thing the TD dual will beat it out on is tone and timbre.  It's different but may not be better.  I like the TD better for voices and Jazz.  I like the M1 better for large scale classical music.  With both the 009s sound fantastic.


----------



## 290752

Thanks again everyone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The general consensus is: sell my 507, get 007/009 and mod the 727.
  
 I've decided to hold on to the 507 as I've already passed the 30 day return period(value wont drop too much i hope) and mod the 727. I think this is the safest route(If I still dont like the 507, I can sell it and save up for a 007). Does anyone know who can mod my 727?(I'm too scared to work with high-voltage)


----------



## astrostar59

kepler28nm said:


> Thanks again everyone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Don't bother messing with it. You could bust if for sure. Sell it and get a 717.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

mulveling said:


> I got a taste of the good lambda/bad lambda thing with Lambda Pro vs. Lambda Signature


 
 I do love Lambda Sig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Ok, it's outrageously airy, undoubtly bright, you lose some of the midrange magic of older Lambda (especially my lovely normal bias), they are somehow unnatural sounding...but hell they are fun ! When paired with regular amps (no KGxxx or BH thing), I find they kick harder in the bass than 009/007, and I've never found them fatiguing. I may be a bright head, BTW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ali


----------



## Ali-Pacha

kepler28nm said:


> I've decided to hold on to the 507 as I've already passed the 30 day return period(value wont drop too much i hope) and mod the 727. I think this is the safest route(If I still dont like the 507, I can sell it and save up for a 007). Does anyone know who can mod my 727?(I'm too scared to work with high-voltage)


 
 Justin, headamp. Period 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ali


----------



## Rayzilla

Has this been talked about here yet? I don't recall seeing anything on it and they specifically mention pairing it up with STAX amps. It is a fairly recent article. It's the Questyle CMA800P.
 http://www.inearspace.com/#!Questyles-CMA800P-Breathes-Magic-into-Stax-A-Munich-High-End-Show-2015-Report/c112t/555f24e70cf298b2d3d785e8
  
 Is the wooden box that comes with the SR-009 really nice looking and high quality in person?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

A bit surprised by that :


> Stax themselves commissioned Questyle to design a better pre for use with their reference system.


 
 Really ? I don't see any audio company saying to another : "ok, this part / piece of gear of ours is POS, please be kind to do something better". Especially the so discreet / japanese / proud / whatever Stax Ltd. company 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The wooden box is nice, but this is no oak / dense wood, so the feeling is not very sturdy. On the other head, the ultra-dense inside foam is glorious, and the overall packaging very nice. If you are used to Stax, some of their products may feel light, but they are very durable...especially the vintage ones (check old Lambda for instance).

 Ali


----------



## Sorrodje

preproman said:


> I use and compare two very different DACS with my 009 / KGST setup.  The Bricasti M1 and the TotalDAC Dual.  The M1 does not show any sign of hash / harsh or bright treble.  The only thing the TD dual will beat it out on is tone and timbre.  It's different but may not be better.  I like the TD better for voices and Jazz.  I like the M1 better for large scale classical music.  With both the 009s sound fantastic.


 
  
 Not received your GSX mkII yet ?


----------



## Tinkerer

I just have a quick question. How does this combo stack against more modern Stax offerings?
  
 SRA-12S (probias board and restored with new caps)
 SR-007 Mk I (70xxx serial)
 Source is a Pacolo DAC
  
 I really enjoy it. But it would be nice to know where it sits if I want to upgrade in the future.


----------



## preproman

sorrodje said:


> Not received your GSX mkII yet ?


 

 Not yet.


----------



## manywelps

patb said:


> Just received my SR-009 from PJ, and I am glad to say there is no channel imbalance


 
 Wait, we have to worry about brand new SR-009s having channel imbalances now?


----------



## negura

It normally creeps up in the first few weeks.


----------



## milosz

I don't always listen to headphones, but when I do, I listen to electrostatics.


----------



## georgep

rayzilla said:


> Has this been talked about here yet? I don't recall seeing anything on it and they specifically mention pairing it up with STAX amps. It is a fairly recent article. It's the Questyle CMA800P.
> http://www.inearspace.com/#!Questyles-CMA800P-Breathes-Magic-into-Stax-A-Munich-High-End-Show-2015-Report/c112t/555f24e70cf298b2d3d785e8
> 
> Is the wooden box that comes with the SR-009 really nice looking and high quality in person?
> ...




The questyle thing sounds weird. A pre that is designed to change the sound or frequency response of the stax amp/009? The stax involvement part sounds weird too.

The box is very high quality. Very light wood by design, for storage of the phones.


----------



## HemiSam

manywelps said:


> Wait, we have to worry about brand new SR-009s having channel imbalances now?


 
  
 There's a fairly lengthy thread about it on here.
  
 HS


----------



## PATB

ali-pacha said:


> Your HD650 must be very (very) loose, because their strong clamping makes me feel a bit claustrophobic, like I'm wearing a too tight wooly cap
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 To make the HD650s more comfy, find a small hardbound book (children's books are best) that approximates the size of your head, and place the book between the left and right side of the headband just above the drivers when not in use.  After a couple of days, the HD650 will be stretched to size.  It will revert back, so may need to do this a couple of times.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Mine is loose enough now (HD600, bought in 2001), but the wooly feeling (headpad, earpads) still remains...and I think this feeling has something to do with the veil myth.
  
 Ali


----------



## AudioCats

manywelps said:


> That's the kind with 2 pro ports on the front?
> 
> Is it more desirable due to sound?


 

 supposedly the p/p version has higher output voltage swing, so "more power".....


----------



## Earspeakers

ali-pacha said:


> A bit surprised by that :
> Really ? I don't see any audio company saying to another : "ok, this part / piece of gear of ours is POS, please be kind to do something better". Especially the so discreet / japanese / proud / whatever Stax Ltd. company


 
  
 http://www.questyleaudio.com/product-CMA800P
  


> Even the very best occasionally needs a little help. Presenting the Questyle Audio CMA800P, commissioned by STAX, to bring out the full potential of their Flagship SR-009 electrostatic earspeaker system. All hand made in Japan, and only available on a custom order basis, the pinnacle of the STAX line, the SR-009 provides sound with a natural clarity and exquisite detail demanded by the most discerning of audiophiles, but to bring out their full dynamics, to provide unprecedented deep, articulate and controlled bass, to remove that last bit of haze in the treble, a pre-amp was needed, and STAX felt that only Questyle Audio, had the technological expertise, and the auditory finesse to build it ... from very beginning the Questyle Audio CMA800P is defined as a purified Hi-end piece, specifically tuned to the STAX SR-009 system, to dig out the electrostatic headphone system’s full potential. Not able to attend themselves, STAX provided an SR-009 system to be displayed with the Questyle Audio CMA800P at the product launch, showing their absolute support of the Questyle Audio CMA800P / STAX SR-009 combination


 
  
 Odd
  


audiocats said:


> supposedly the p/p version has higher output voltage swing, so "more power".....


 

 I've got a SRM-T1 PP coming in I can compare against my SRM-T1W.


----------



## AudioCats

earspeakers said:


> I've got a SRM-T1 PP coming in I can compare against my SRM-T1W.


 
  please keep us posted. Very interested in this comparision.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

SRM-1/mk2 P.P. is well known, but never heard of SRM-T1 P.P. How does it look like ?

 Ali


----------



## Tinkerer

Figured I'd post my setup since nobody commented on just the text. Changed the exhaust fan since here for a slightly smaller whisper quiet model. Makes less noise than the GPU of the computer the amps are sitting on. I know mosfets are supposed to have minor distortion with all the heat but there's so much OOP stuff in here, I'd hate to stress it anymore than I have to.

I know it's nowhere near apex endgame that a lot of folks have here, but is it at least competitive with something like a MK 2.5 + 323S?


----------



## labrat




----------



## Ali-Pacha

Almost there, young padawan : you've forgotten original SRM-1, with two NB sockets 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ali


----------



## labrat

ali-pacha said:


> Almost there, young padawan : you've forgotten original SRM-1, with two NB sockets
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 ?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

SRM-1 => 2 NB sockets
 SRM-1/mk2 => 2 NB sockets
 SRM-1/mk2 Pro => 1 NB, 1 Pro
 SRM-1/mk2 P. P. => 2 Pro
  
 Ali


----------



## labrat




----------



## Ali-Pacha

Wiki is strange. As far as I know, SRM-1 Pro doesn't exist, Pro versions were all mk2. But maybe I'm wrong.
 It's the same with my original question : I've never heard about a P.P. / fully pro version of T1, that's why I've asked.
  
 I've been in Stax gear for decades (owning or used to own dozens of different models from amps to cans, through transformer boxes), so I'm not that bad at basic knowledge, like commercial specs lists, differences beetween pro an normal bias or "mainstream" amps like classic T1/T1S/T1W. But the company is well known for very limited / confidential / odd releases. Look at this for instance :
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/776176/ic-stax-lambda-pro-new-extremly-rare
 New style headband (replacement or original one ?), marking on the cups (Lambda Pro New), sticker "New" on the packaging...what the hell is that ? I've never heard about it, and you'll have some hard time asking google. So, my question may be irrelevant to you, but it isn't to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## AudioCats

I think the "SRM-T1 pp" was a typo, he meant SRM-1/ PP


----------



## Rayzilla

rayzilla said:


> As I am seriously considering a 3-year old used pair combined with the SRM-007tII, can I ask those of you that own or have owned the SR-009, how long have you owned it and if there were any problems with them (and how challenging was it to fix the problem)?
> 
> Thanks, I am getting closer...


 
 Me again. I did some checking on the Price Japan pricing and am considering the following:
  
 1) SR-009 and SRM-3232s for about $3,200 from Price Japan
 2) SR-009 and SRM-007tII for about $3,200 but 3 years old from local seller here in Hong Kong
 3) SR-009 and SRM-007tII for about $3,800 from Price Japan
  
 I figure that since I live in Asia, delivery back to Japan for warranty problems should not be that bad so worth the savings.
  
 Any comments welcomed.


----------



## uchihaitachi

rayzilla said:


> Me again. I did some checking on the Price Japan pricing and am considering the following:
> 
> 1) SR-009 and SRM-3232s for about $3,200 from Price Japan
> 2) SR-009 and SRM-007tII for about $3,200 but 3 years old from local seller here in Hong Kong
> ...


 
 Plus Hong Kong no customs duty! Luck you!
  
 I asked a similar question regarding amps recently.
 Why not the first option? The general consensus seems to be that the 323s is the 'least screwed up' of the Stax amps.


----------



## bearFNF

rayzilla said:


> 1) SR-009 and SRM-3232s for about $3,200 from Price Japan
> Any comments welcomed.



I would also say number 1 is the way to go, but I would make sure you are getting an SRM323s not sure what an SRM3232s is...


----------



## wink

I would go to Mjolnir Audio and get a KGSSHv or KGST.


----------



## astrostar59

bearfnf said:


> I would also say number 1 is the way to go, but I would make sure you are getting an SRM323s not sure what an SRM3232s is...


 
 The older SRM-717 is much better I found than the current 727. The 323 is thinner and sterile IMO and a step back. Pity the 'new' amp from Stax is not out yet (for the 009s).
 I would say get hold of a good 717 and save / commission a KGSS or KGSShv. Don't waist your hard earned cash on the current Stax amps (sorry if this sounds harsh, have spent before on the subject...).


----------



## bearFNF

astrostar59 said:


> The older SRM-717 is much better I found than the current 727. The 323 is thinner and sterile IMO and a step back. Pity the 'new' amp from Stax is not out yet (for the 009s).
> I would say get hold of a good 717 and save / commission a KGSS or KGSShv. Don't waist your hard earned cash on the current Stax amps (sorry if this sounds harsh, have spent before on the subject...).


 
 My recommendation was for the options listed, but if we are going to open it up for other options, I would add the LL2 to the list along with the BHSE. I have not heard the KGSS/HV so cant say either way on them.


----------



## Earspeakers

There are a lot of discussions on DAC's for Stax, but most of them are out of date, so sorry if it's an old topic but I could really use some suggestions as there are so many choices. 
  
 I have an extensive Stax collection, nearly every one they made new and old, same for the amps, plus the new DIY variants (KGST, T2, BHSE, etc). I've also got a Stax Quattro 1 and 2 as sources, but need a decent DAC to drive all this too (I have a pretty good Chinese one now but should upgrade). Here's what I'm looking for
  

The best I can get in transparency and detail for my price. I use the headphones/amps to match my mood and music
Ideally under $1k but can go higher
Balanced and single ended out
USB in
A DAC/Power Amp (speaker) combo would be great - that way I can drive my Stax transformer adapters
  
 Thanks for any suggestions.


----------



## Jones Bob

earspeakers said:


> There are a lot of discussions on DAC's for Stax, but most of them are out of date, so sorry if it's an old topic but I could really use some suggestions as there are so many choices.
> 
> I have an extensive Stax collection, nearly every one they made new and old, same for the amps, plus the new DIY variants (KGST, T2, BHSE, etc). I've also got a Stax Quattro 1 and 2 as sources, but need a decent DAC to drive all this too (I have a pretty good Chinese one now but should upgrade). Here's what I'm looking for
> 
> ...




A used Schiit Gungnir with USB 2 for ~$500. 

For icing on the cake, add a Schiit Wyrd for $100 or an Uptone Audio Regen for $175.


----------



## Earspeakers

jones bob said:


> A used Schiit Gungnir with USB 2 for ~$500.
> 
> For icing on the cake, add a Schiit Wyrd for $100 or an Uptone Audio Regen for $175.


 

 Thanks, I'll study that option. I'll admit I've avoided Schiit, I'm sure they're good and nice guys, but the marketing annoys me. I don't really want equipment with (to my stupid mind stupid) names like "Schiit" (what are they implying with that? duh), "Wyrd", etc. Just call it A1, B2 and be done with it. 
  
 Edit: Yeah, unfortunately in the back of my mind I'd see my 009/BHSE, or NOS Sigma Pro being driven by something named ... shiit, while listening to Mahler. Just doesn't work. Obviously that marketing has worked for them to kickstart a small company, but it's not my thing.


----------



## soren_brix

earspeakers said:


> Edit: Yeah, unfortunately in the back of my mind I'd see my 009/BHSE, or NOS Sigma Pro being driven by something named ... shiit, while listening to Mahler. Just doesn't work. Obviously that marketing has worked for them to kickstart a small company, but it's not my thing.


 
  
 As Shiit aparently are the names for followers of Shiism, I guess it could bring some new dynmaics to the great jew ...


----------



## Jones Bob

Cogito ergo Schiit.


----------



## DougD

earspeakers said:


> <snip snip>
> 
> Edit: Yeah, unfortunately in the back of my mind I'd see my 009/BHSE, or NOS Sigma Pro being driven by something named ... shiit, while listening to Mahler. Just doesn't work. Obviously that marketing has worked for them to kickstart a small company, but it's not my thing.


 
  
 The Gungnir has a logo, but the word "Schiit" doesn't appear anywhere on the visible side, per the pictures on their website.
  
 By reputation, the Gungnir is a worthy contender. (I don't have one, and have not A-B'd it vs other gear.)
  
 But no question, emotional responses play a part in our decisions on what gear to buy or pass on. Life is not entirely rational. (I'm re-reading Kahneman's "Thinking, Fast and Slow." It's pretty amazing how often and easily our intuitive/heuristic thinking takes over, rather than our rational thinking systems.)


----------



## rgs9200m

I think $1K on a DAC is not worthy of a 009/BHSE (or even something more humble). Chord or EMM or something of that caliber. It's a big imbalance of resources.


----------



## Jones Bob

rgs9200m said:


> I think $1K on a DAC is not worthy of a 009/BHSE (or even something more humble). Chord or EMM or something of that caliber. It's a big imbalance of resources.




100% agree. IMHO, it is path of upgrades best experienced and arrived at personally.


----------



## Rayzilla

uchihaitachi said:


> Plus Hong Kong no customs duty! Luck you!
> 
> I asked a similar question regarding amps recently.
> Why not the first option? The general consensus seems to be that the 323s is the 'least screwed up' of the Stax amps.


 
 The no customs duty (and sales taxes too) is a welcome change from my days in Canada where I rarely ever imported because I never knew how much the item was going to cost me in the end.
 I came to the same conclusion as you from my research on here.
  


bearfnf said:


> I would also say number 1 is the way to go, but I would make sure you are getting an SRM323s not sure what an SRM3232s is...


 
 So far this was the way I was leaning towards because of the generally positive things I am reading about the SRM-323s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My mistake on the SRM-3232s (I was testing you guys and you caught it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) but what is the SRM323s? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  


wink said:


> I would go to Mjolnir Audio and get a KGSSHv or KGST.


 
 I will check on the pricing of these but I have two concerns: I am already stretching my budget because I am also interested in getting a closed headphone for my new job (I tried the LCD-XC and really liked what I heard out of them); I assume the Mjolnir is not made in Asia, so shipping will not be cheap since amps are relatively heavy.
  
 But I will read up on this amp to see if I can somehow fit it into my current budget.
  


astrostar59 said:


> The older SRM-717 is much better I found than the current 727. The 323 is thinner and sterile IMO and a step back. Pity the 'new' amp from Stax is not out yet (for the 009s).
> I would say get hold of a good 717 and save / commission a KGSS or KGSShv. Don't waist your hard earned cash on the current Stax amps (sorry if this sounds harsh, have spent before on the subject...).


 
 Now you are putting some doubt into the 323s but then the 717 will cost quite a bit more unless I can find one used locally or nearby. Still, the option is to stick with something like the 323s before upgrading in a year or so later. I need something to run the 009 when I get them so I thought the cheapest/logical option was the 323s, which adds about $550 on the purchase of the 009 from Price Japan (this is in total shipped prices).
  


bearfnf said:


> My recommendation was for the options listed, but if we are going to open it up for other options, I would add the LL2 to the list along with the BHSE. I have not heard the KGSS/HV so cant say either way on them.


 
 I would love to get a Cavali of any kind but these two considerations are even more than my current budget. If I get one of these, I won't have a headphone to use with these amps.


----------



## EveTan

I'm curious, for those who have bought a Sr-009 from PriceJapan and had it shipped to the US, have you ever had to pay import tax on that?


----------



## Jones Bob

evetan said:


> I'm curious, for those who have bought a Sr-009 from PriceJapan and had it shipped to the US, have you ever had to pay import tax on that?




My 4 or 5 Stax orders from PJ were delivered by EMS (USPS) without import tax.


----------



## Tinkerer

I've bought lots of stuff over the $200 minimum from japan over the years. Never got hit with duties, ever, whether by SAL or EMS. The latest things I got were my SR-007 and my SRA-12S in separate packages by EMS too.


----------



## uchihaitachi

rayzilla said:


> The no customs duty (and sales taxes too) is a welcome change from my days in Canada where I rarely ever imported because I never knew how much the item was going to cost me in the end.
> I came to the same conclusion as you from my research on here.
> 
> So far this was the way I was leaning towards because of the generally positive things I am reading about the SRM-323s.
> ...


 

 Can't you try out the amps in Hong Kong somehwere?
  
 Members can make recommendations but it's always going to be down to your preference at the end of the day.
  
 I used to have the BHSE, SRM007 and SRM 727 before I got rid of all of them you mentioned (which I am regretting now dearly and searching for a new electrostatic amp) but I think it's worth for you to check them out personally.
  
 On your limited budget, I don't think it's really worth it to spend a significantly larger amount on the amps such as the BHSE, KGHSSV and etc. when you can get another pair of closed backs for that sum.


----------



## rgs9200m

KGSS-HV all the way. I fooled around w/stax amps for years and finally gave up and my little Kgssvh-mini is a revelation. 'should have done it earlier. And there's nothing like a true Stax system. It has a unique sound.


----------



## Earspeakers

I'm in the camp that Stax amps are _mighty_ fine. I think it's that Stax, as a platform, is so much better than anything else that any Stax system is gold. But with that I listen most days to a 404LE on a 006 which is sweet and mellow, and vocal music on a Sigma Normal/SRM-3S is even sweeter. When playing Wagner I tend to prefer a late edition Sigma Pro on a 323S, and a KGST for a no-nonsense presentation of Boccherini or piano sonatas. 
  
 Go Stax, it's all good


----------



## cat6man

earspeakers said:


> There are a lot of discussions on DAC's for Stax, but most of them are out of date, so sorry if it's an old topic but I could really use some suggestions as there are so many choices.
> 
> I have an extensive Stax collection, nearly every one they made new and old, same for the amps, plus the new DIY variants (KGST, T2, BHSE, etc). I've also got a Stax Quattro 1 and 2 as sources, but need a decent DAC to drive all this too (I have a pretty good Chinese one now but should upgrade). Here's what I'm looking for
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would recommend an R2R DAC.  I have a totaldac, that is above your price range, but the sound of R2R and stax are magic together.


----------



## NoPants

earspeakers said:


> I'm in the camp that Stax amps are _mighty_ fine. I think it's that Stax, as a platform, is so much better than anything else that any Stax system is gold. But with that I listen most days to a 404LE on a 006 which is sweet and mellow, and vocal music on a Sigma Normal/SRM-3S is even sweeter. When playing Wagner I tend to prefer a late edition Sigma Pro on a 323S, and a KGST for a no-nonsense presentation of Boccherini or piano sonatas.
> 
> Go Stax, it's all good


 
  
 I would recommend splitting your budget in half to go towards a USB- SPDIF and a vintage R2R DAC. Since you have some DIY skills you should be able to restore something with a NPT/PMD filter + PCM63


----------



## n3rdling

rgs9200m said:


> KGSS-HV all the way. I fooled around w/stax amps for years and finally gave up and my little Kgssvh-mini is a revelation. 'should have done it earlier. And there's nothing like a true Stax system. It has a unique sound.


 
  
 We tried to tell you this for years


----------



## NoPants

n3rdling said:


> We tried to tell you this for years


 
 Not the appropriate post to quote but I'm curious if you ere able to cleanly remove the dust cover for mk1's before? I'm having some slight balance problems and I think it's because the cover is compromised. Did you just cut it out?


----------



## Rayzilla

uchihaitachi said:


> Can't you try out the amps in Hong Kong somehwere?
> 
> Members can make recommendations but it's always going to be down to your preference at the end of the day.
> 
> ...


 
 Going the STAX route is a fairly recent move for me so I haven't spent too much time checking on places to try them here. I have been in contact with a local member that has a pair that I might get a chance to try if the stars align. I agree with you that personal experience is the best way to go. I just don't like to be an intrusion but I will try to find opportunities to try them.
  
 Regarding the budget issue, I am strongly leaning towards compromising on the electrostatic amp so that I can add another (closed) headphone to my inventory.
  
 Thanks for your advice and suggestions.


----------



## Earspeakers

cat6man said:


> I would recommend an R2R DAC.  I have a totaldac, that is above your price range, but the sound of R2R and stax are magic together.


 
  
 That's the second R2R recommendation I've gotten (the other was a PM). I do have Soekris R2R DAC board that I haven't had a chance yet to finish (just a few simple things really.)
  


> I would recommend splitting your budget in half to go towards a USB- SPDIF and a vintage R2R DAC. Since you have some DIY skills you should be able to restore something with a NPT/PMD filter + PCM63


 
  
 The third recommendation! OK R2R seems to be the cure to this problem. I wonder what it is about R2R that goes so well with Stax ...
  
 The R2R options I've heard of are

Soekris DAC (will finish soon - been busy with DIY Stax amps like the T2)
totaldac
AudioNote DAC 4.1
Something with a NPT/PMD filter + PCM63 (like ...?)
  
 Any other R2R options?
  
 Thanks so much guys.


----------



## NoPants

I don't really care for the dac 4.1 because there's a lot of fluff around the design, but you can probably assess that if you look at the internals
  
 soekris is interesting but the si570 phase noise leaves something to be desired. Let someone who is capable of measuring crystals put it into the SPDIF side for you, i.e. invest in an audiophilleo/legato
  
 classe dac 1 fits the bill, ultraanalog modules
  
 parasound dacs have a wide range of chips and output stages that you can find within your budget
  
 EAD Dac series
  
 These are all a google search away if you look for any dacs that use the pcm63, 1704, 1862, among others. I wouldn't recommend building your own at that price level just because DACs are more complicated and there are certain things which are just beyond your capabilities as a DIY-er.
  
 -----------------------
  
 there are really strong s-d implementations as well which would also fit the bill, such as the audiolab mdac which uses the 9018. The Audioquest Dragonfly is very capable from a digital POV, and the designers are fairly famous.
  
 R2R is nice but it's really just another option. There are a lot of issues that prevent it from being a real competent option in 2015 without significant expense to overcome things like digital filtering, manufacturing


----------



## Earspeakers

Agree on the DAC 4.1 - I'm sure it sounds great but why put tubes and transformer coupling in there as they're completely unnecessary? Tubes OK, but output transformer seems gratuitous. 
  


> soekris is interesting but the si570 phase noise leaves something to be desired. Let someone who is capable of measuring crystals put it into the SPDIF side for you, i.e. invest in an audiophilleo/legato


 

 Actually I'm an Test Equipment R&D engineer and have access to just about anything you could want at the lab. Maybe because of that I don't bother testing my audio equipment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Actually there's a story to this, I had a phono preamp I designed and built once that I loved and sounded wonderful. At some point I took it in and measured, to find all sorts of problems in the frequency response. Ever since then my motto is "I design spectrum analyzers for a living, and my ears aren't spectrum analyzers!"
  


> classe dac 1 fits the bill, ultraanalog modules


 
  
 Another one, unfortunately it's $$ (I've already spent way too much on vintage Stax gear)


----------



## Earspeakers

audiocats said:


> please keep us posted. Very interested in this comparision.


 

 Some short notes on what I have so far, comparing a ...

KGST
SRA-3
SRM-323S
SRM-006t
SRM-T1W
SRM-T1mk2 serial A**** (TBD)
SRM-T1mk2 PP (TBD)
SRA-12S (TBD)
  
 Tests were with an ED-1 and Sigma Pro NOS late version and I only listen to classical music. 
  
 The KGST is the most accurate of the bunch probably. It has the largest 'space' - it sounds like you kind of poke your head into the concert hall, probably due to it having the lowest noise floor (just a guess as to what I'm hearing). It also has the most headroom, big dynamic peaks (many in classical) are handled with ease. The bass is generally better defined. Given that it's also the most fatiguing. This could be due to my upstream DAC - or not, but regardless it does get tiring after a while. 
  
 The SRA-3 is a very sweet, very forgiving amp. Wonderful with Normal phones, especially shines for vocal Sonata or Lieder (e.g. Fischer-Dieskau Schuber Lieder), or Bach harpsichord. On this one I used a pair of Normal bias Sigma so some difference there. 
  
 The 323S is the most energetic of the bunch. With boom-boom music (Rachmaninov, Nielson) I prefer this one, it's a wonderful match with a Sigma as it really punches through. Some loss of detail, but conversely it's somewhat more relaxing to boot in that regards. Needs about 5-10 minutes warmup
  
 006t version 1 - the most fuzzy and warm of the bunch. This is a rare NOS one I got from a guy who bought it new as a backup. Warm, forgiving and the most fuzzed out - which doesn't detract. Great for when I just want some no-nonsense relaxing music, say Haydn string quartets. 
  
 T1W - wonderful amp. Rich, a little warmer than some others, not quite as detailed as the KGST but a little forgiving too. Excellent cup of tea for anything up to large ensemble, and there too for Classical era symphony (e.g. Mozart, Beethoven). This one takes about 30 minutes warmup before it comes together, it really does. 
  
 More to come in a few weeks ...


----------



## rgs9200m

n3rdling said:


> We tried to tell you this for years


 
 Point taken. I sit corrected.


----------



## Rossliew

I use a relatively budget DIY R2R dac by Standing Point Systems from France. Christophe builds them and sells them via eBay. Cheap but a good introduction to the NOS dac world IMO. Probably not as competent as the higher range ones but to these ears, pretty awesome sounding and stands neck to neck with my Gungnir.


----------



## Earspeakers

rossliew said:


> I use a relatively budget DIY R2R dac by Standing Point Systems from France. Christophe builds them and sells them via eBay. Cheap but a good introduction to the NOS dac world IMO. Probably not as competent as the higher range ones but to these ears, pretty awesome sounding and stands neck to neck with my Gungnir.


 
  
 Thanks, a cheaper option! But is the name "Starting Point Systems"?


----------



## Rossliew

earspeakers said:


> Thanks, a cheaper option! But is the name "Starting Point Systems"?


 

 Hahahaha...yes, you are absolutely correct - it should be Starting Point Systems..my bad ! 
  
 It's a passive DAC meaning there is no extra gain to it so you need to dial up the volume knob a fair bit depending on your source. It sounds a tad slow-ish on my Stax rig but once your ears adjust, it sounds great for the price.


----------



## FrankCooter

First rule of digital audio is to buy used. Whatever the "flavor of the moment" is today, you'll see it on Audiogon next year for about 50% off the original price.
  
 Extrapolating your tastes, and given your original price point, you might want to look at a Benchmark. If you're willing to spend a bit more, check out a used Berkeley Alpha or something from PS Audio. I've heard them all in my system.
  
 To me, most $1k DAC's sound very, very, similar. They're sonically competent, they measure well, but compared to a good analog system, they usually sound flat,  harsh, and lifeless.
  
 The last few % of digital performance comes with a much higher price. Whether the price is worth it is a matter of choice.
  
 I'm currently running a Metrum Hex. Probably not your taste, but I like it a lot. I bought it used for about 60% of retail.
  
  
 Interesting how people in this hobby, even highly experienced ones, can have totally contradictory opinions about equipment.
  
 I build all kinds of (mostly tube) audio equipment, including the occasional electrostatic headphone amp. I have a Stax 323s that I keep as a baseline amp. Most people here like this amp. To me it's a good example of what I don't want to build into my own equipment.
  
 I'm also a big fan of Audio Note DAC's. Like any other tube output stage, the transformers are there to load the plates of the output tubes, remove the DC from the signal path, and convert the high impedance of the output tubes to a low impedance amp input.
  
 The transformer output version of this DAC sounds better than the cap coupled version (which I own ) , and is a serious contender against any "state of the art" DAC.
  
  
  
 I


----------



## Earspeakers

frankcooter said:


> First rule of digital audio is to buy used. Whatever the "flavor of the moment" is today, you'll see it on Audiogon next year for about 50% off the original price.


 
  
 Thanks Frank, I appreciate your thoughts. I used to have a ginormous vinyl collection, along with a custom lead shot/oil turntable/JR Memorial tonearm, blah blah and etc. Unfortunately I can't afford the time, space and energy to maintain vinyl anymore, so it's all digital. I like them both for various reasons. 
  
 I just did an interesting experiment, which was to set up a switch box with a Stax Quattro I CDP against a Mousai MSD192 DAC I'm otherwise using. Both playing the same Redbook simultaneously, and the switchbox lets me cut from one to the other instantly to see the difference. I haven't listened to a ton of stuff, but playing a few disks I hear ... no different. Nothing I can definitively attribute to one or the other. There is some kind of micro difference, I guess, but I'm not sure if it's just my imagination. Note I even tested this with Harpsichord Sonatas which I think is probably the most brittle and caustic music you can listen to (it's great to test audio equipment on) and perfect for testing sources. 
  
 So 1986 high end against 2015 medium end and I can't hear a blessed difference. Maybe a $10K 2015 DAC will be night and day, I'd like to test but I'm not buying one anytime soon.


----------



## n3rdling

Agree with the R2R and vintage advice - almost all my DACs are vintage R2R DACs.  Check out Assemblage, Sonic Frontiers, Parasound, EAD to name a few.  This list should come in very handy when researching sources:
 http://vasiltech.narod.ru/CD-Player-DAC-Transport.htm
  
 1702/1704/63/20400A are all very good chips.  PMD100/200 are two of the better filters.
  
 I've enjoyed the Audio Note DACs I've heard in the past.  Can't say the same for any Sabre implementation...
  
 Quote:


nopants said:


> Not the appropriate post to quote but I'm curious if you ere able to cleanly remove the dust cover for mk1's before? I'm having some slight balance problems and I think it's because the cover is compromised. Did you just cut it out?


 
  
 Nope.  I've heard units with the dustcover removed and have known a couple people who run their 007s this way.  I think there were also measurements posted showing a pretty drastic difference in FR.  You might wanna PM zolkis for help with the dustcovers.


----------



## astrostar59

earspeakers said:


> Thanks Frank, I appreciate your thoughts. I used to have a ginormous vinyl collection, along with a custom lead shot/oil turntable/JR Memorial tonearm, blah blah and etc. Unfortunately I can't afford the time, space and energy to maintain vinyl anymore, so it's all digital. I like them both for various reasons.
> 
> I just did an interesting experiment, which was to set up a switch box with a Stax Quattro I CDP against a Mousai MSD192 DAC I'm otherwise using. Both playing the same Redbook simultaneously, and the switchbox lets me cut from one to the other instantly to see the difference. I haven't listened to a ton of stuff, but playing a few disks I hear ... no different. Nothing I can definitively attribute to one or the other. There is some kind of micro difference, I guess, but I'm not sure if it's just my imagination. Note I even tested this with Harpsichord Sonatas which I think is probably the most brittle and caustic music you can listen to (it's great to test audio equipment on) and perfect for testing sources.
> 
> So 1986 high end against 2015 medium end and I can't hear a blessed difference. Maybe a $10K 2015 DAC will be night and day, I'd like to test but I'm not buying one anytime soon.


 
 Interesting subject that might need to be in the Computer / DAC forum section.
 Here's my view anyway.
  
 $2K will get you an Audio Note DAC 3.1 kit. It will blow many $10K DACs away IMO. 
  
 I hovered over the CDP v Computer audio via USB and external DAC for a while back in 2005. After lengthy demos and testing gear it became pretty obvious I could beat a great CDP (CEC Belt Drive) with USB audio. I would say the jump was around 15-20%. The clarity and smoothness was the biggest jump, along with dynamics and bass texture.
  
 The key to getting the best out of computer audio is obviously a great DAC (preferably an R-2R with some tubes in it) and a very good USB to SPDIF convertor that feed the DAC with pure data to work with. Many DACs USB implementations are not great as they are built to budget. Check out the MSB thread on here, there are posts that confirm the better USB module option affects the sound a lot. A*synchronous *is most important and an external clock has benefits.
  
 Then we have the software used as well as the computer. Ideally the computer (PC or Mac for example) needs to be stripped back to be only a music server to get the best performance. I messed around a lot with software on my Mac Mini and found Audirvana+ standalone is a big jump from the other players I tried. It sounds crazy but all the elements in the chain make a BIG difference here, even though it is 'digital' as in 'should' be the same regardless.
  
 What I am trying to say is CDP v USB is a complex subject. But done well USB is remarkable, truly world class sound. And the cool thing is all your tunes at your finger tips. On the SQ level I am way beyond my turntable rig nowadays and would not go back.


----------



## NoPants

if you can't tell a difference with r2r then just get the audiolab mdac, the features and output stage are robust. There is a large body of tweaking supported by the original designer in random forums elsewhere


----------



## astrostar59

> Check out Assemblage, Sonic Frontiers, Parasound, EAD to name a few.


 
 I don't think all of those DACs are true Non oversampling as in 44.1 straight through? Might be wrong.
  
 Many of the early DACs were very blurry as to what they were doing to the data. Most, even R-2R were up sampling. It was the craze back then of course. Check out the Lampizator posts on that manufactures site, he took apart many regarded DACs and CDPs built back in the 90s and it is a shocker. Some have a chassis within a chassis and the cheapest Philips mechanism available yet were sold out as the high end of DACs and crazy money.
  
 The path to a great DAC IMO sways towards R-2R non oversampling, but also having tubes in the device helps (if implemented correct). And the parts quality, the fact it may or may not have the filter removed, the quality of the output stage. The output stage on many even 'high end' DACs is no more than a simple buffer stage built to a budget.


----------



## Earspeakers

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting subject that might need to be in the Computer / DAC forum section.
> Here's my view anyway.
> 
> $2K will get you an Audio Note DAC 3.1 kit. It will blow many $10K DACs away IMO.


 
  
 Well, $2500 more like with the USB and balanced option
  


> I hovered over the CDP v Computer audio via USB and external DAC for a while back in 2005. After lengthy demos and testing gear it became pretty obvious I could beat a great CDP (CEC Belt Drive) with USB audio. I would say the jump was around 15-20%. The clarity and smoothness was the biggest jump, along with dynamics and bass texture ...


 
  
 I prefer a DAC for the convenience. I use mocp/JackD on an older OSX computer, works for me. As a software developer I have difficulty believing the software makes any difference unless they somebody really screwed up. It's all buffered OS driver layer. Anyhow JackD is designed for realtime performance (if you want it) so that's not the bottleneck (I prefer the command line CURSES interface of MOC - I can launch it in a tmux session and reconnect later. And I can launch simultaneous copies, all pointing at different pieces I listen to)
  
 Looking at the board shots from Audio Note (of course only the DAC board doesn't have a high resolution version), it appears to be based on the AD1865, is that correct? That's an obsolete ADC and not R2R, and it's oversampling, but they claim it's a non oversampling architecture. Anybody know the circuit of the Audio Note? 
  
 One interesting thing ...
  


> Also, as with all the very latest Audio Note DAC's, the DAC 3.1 comes without an analog filter.


 
  
 With the Stax Quattro you have the choice of with or without analog filter output. Again I couldn't hear much of a difference 
  
 I rather wonder if much of the difference between DACs is simply the output stage (analog drivers). Anyhow as a side note I prefer a dedicated DAC without a headphone jack staring at me.


----------



## preproman

earspeakers said:


> *Anyhow as a side note I prefer a dedicated DAC without a headphone jack staring at me. *


 
  
 +1 on this.  I don't know why, but I hate DACs with headphone outs.  I thought it was just me..


----------



## nepherte

preproman said:


> +1 on this.  I don't know why, but I hate DACs with headphone outs.  I thought it was just me..


 

 On the other hand. The headphone out of the TotalDAC is amazing...and it's in the back


----------



## astrostar59

> Looking at the board shots from Audio Note (of course only the DAC board doesn't have a high resolution version), it appears to be based on the AD1865, is that correct? That's an obsolete ADC and not R2R, and it's oversampling, but they claim it's a non oversampling architecture. Anybody know the circuit of the Audio Note?


 
 Ha Ha I love this, throwing out complete untruths like you know it for a fact....
  
 AD1865 chips were bought in bulk by Audio Note UK a few years back, and hand selected for the best quality. They are true R-2R chips, no oversampling what so ever. They can handle 44.1 and up to 96K data. The same chips are also used in their DAC 5 Super DAC which retails for 35K. Getting a 3.1 or 4.1 DAC kits gets you close to that amazing DAC.
  
 Audio Note also removed the filter section on the boards. It is different to a selectable circuit switched filter which does some frequency 'shaping' Basically removing the filter at the chip set takes away another layer of hash and sends Redbook straight to voltage.
  
 It is best to get to listen to an Audio Note DAC. We can talk about digital theory all day, and many many folk will cling to Delta-Sigma like there life depends on it. Listening is the best way, as I found out. Before my Audio Note DAC I was buying and selling, Meridian, Naim, Musical Fidelity, McIntosh, it went on and on, demoing and listening to mates DACs. I nearly gave up and went back to my vinyl.
  
 The DAC 3.1 can be had for 2.4K US, less if you are fine with Single Ended RCA.  I have heard many DACs costing 10K+ that don't sound this good.


----------



## Earspeakers

nepherte said:


> On the other hand. The headphone out of the TotalDAC is amazing...and it's in the back


 
  
 No doubt, but is it Stax compatible? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 It's just psychological, like having a DAC from a company named after excrement.


----------



## nepherte

earspeakers said:


> No doubt, but is it Stax compatible?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No suited for electrostats. It was more of an insider joke meant for preproman. He says he hates dacs with a headphone out, but he has a Totaldac and loves it


----------



## astrostar59

earspeakers said:


> No doubt, but is it Stax compatible?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ha Ha your funny


----------



## preproman

nepherte said:


> No suited for electrostats. It was more of an insider joke meant for preproman. He says he hates dacs with a headphone out, but he has a Totaldac and loves it


 

 I'm glad it's on the back.  That way I never see it.


----------



## astrostar59

nepherte said:


> No suited for electrostats. It was more of an insider joke meant for preproman. He says he hates dacs with a headphone out, but he has a Totaldac and loves it


 
 I have heard (read) nice things about this DAC. I respect the guy making it, a very small company and a big risk, but the design of it looks very interesting. Maybe an R-2R with a twist and some MSB technology in it? I would love to hear it against my Audio Note DAC 4.1. It is very interesting how a DAC can 'change' or make a 'difference' to the final sound, it's digital, it should be the same right? For those lucky ones who have such a DAC they have found that not to be the case.
  
 I have also found the USB to SPDIF implementation makes a difference as well. If the TotalDAC has a great USB input design plus R-2R conversion I can imagine it is going to be a giant killer....
 This should probably be in Computer Audio or over at the other site that specialised in this subject. It is important however more folk realise how much a good (better) DAC can affect the system. Lets face it, with 007 or 009s we are going to hear it for sure, possibly more than a top end speaker system IMO.


----------



## Earspeakers

astrostar59 said:


> Ha Ha I love this, throwing out complete untruths like you know it for a fact....


 
  
 Relax. If "it appears" and "is that correct?" sounds like 'throwing out complete untruths like you know it for a fact', then we have a communication problem.  
  


> AD1865 chips were bought in bulk by Audio Note UK a few years back, and hand selected for the best quality. They are true R-2R chips, no oversampling what so ever. They can handle 44.1 and up to 96K data. The same chips are also used in their DAC 5 Super DAC which retails for 35K. Getting a 3.1 or 4.1 DAC kits gets you close to that amazing DAC.


 
  
 I'm just going from this data sheet from AD on the 1865 which says "Operates at 16 3 Oversampling per Channel", however I see it does mention R2R. Looking for clarification, ya know?
  
 Regards,


----------



## Jones Bob

earspeakers said:


> No doubt, but is it Stax compatible? :eek:
> 
> 
> It's just psychological, like having a DAC from a company named after excrement.




No, it's marketing. As in "With a name like Smuckers, it has to be good."


----------



## Jones Bob

earspeakers said:


> Relax. If "it appears" and "is that correct?" sounds like 'throwing out complete untruths like you know it for a fact', then we have a communication problem.
> 
> 
> I'm just going from this data sheet from AD on the 1865 which says "Operates at 16 3 Oversampling per Channel", however I see it does mention R2R. Looking for clarification, ya know?
> ...




The AD1865 is a R2R. It needs an external digital filter to provide the oversampling.


----------



## Jones Bob

astrostar59 said:


> AD1865 chips were bought in bulk by Audio Note UK a few years back, and hand selected for the best quality.




Not really. AN used lesser P grade chips in their lower DACs. In the higher end ones, they used K grade. If they needed better low level linearity than that, they could easily add a trimmer and adjust individually instead of the time and labor to sort a batch.


----------



## rgs9200m

I'm curious what kind of volume controls are used in KGSS-variety stat amps? Mjolnir Alpha potentiometer in mine and I'm very happy with it. (I get annoyed with steppers, just too coarse for me, even though they sound nice.)


----------



## Jones Bob

rgs9200m said:


> I'm curious what kind of volume controls are used in KGSS-variety stat amps? Mjolnir Alpha potentiometer in mine and I'm very happy with it. (I get annoyed with steppers, just too coarse for me, even though they sound nice.)


 
  
 The ALPHA in my KGST sounds really good, but have not compared to others yet. Will try an ALPS RK50 soon and Kevin's Digital 256 Stepped Attenuator later.
  
 Edit: My Mouser order including Phoenix Screw Terminals for my RK50 PCB was delivered today. So I will swap out the ALPHA for the RK50 tonight and give a listen.


----------



## Earspeakers

I use a Penny & Giles precision audio pot. Feels like liquid gold (and priced to match).


----------



## Jones Bob

earspeakers said:


> I use a Penny & Giles precision audio pot. Feels like liquid gold (and priced to match).




Oooooooooo.... is it one of the oil filled ones? 

Envy.


----------



## Earspeakers

jones bob said:


> Oooooooooo.... is it one of the oil filled ones?
> 
> Envy.


 
  
 Don't know, don't think so. Has absolutely zero backlash and is precise and perfect in every way though.


----------



## Jones Bob

earspeakers said:


> Don't know, don't think so. Has absolutely zero backlash and is precise and perfect in every way though.


 

 Still envy.


----------



## astrostar59

earspeakers said:


> Relax. If "it appears" and "is that correct?" sounds like 'throwing out complete untruths like you know it for a fact', then we have a communication problem.
> 
> 
> I'm just going from this data sheet from AD on the 1865 which says "Operates at 16 3 Oversampling per Channel", however I see it does mention R2R. Looking for clarification, ya know?
> ...


 
 You said:


> Looking at the board shots from Audio Note (of course only the DAC board doesn't have a high resolution version), it appears to be based on the AD1865, is that correct? *That's an obsolete ADC and not R2R, and it's oversampling, but they claim it's a non oversampling architecture*. Anybody know the circuit of the Audio Note?


 
 Part in bold is the 'fact' you are stating that I have an issue with...


----------



## astrostar59

jones bob said:


> The ALPHA in my KGST sounds really good, but have not compared to others yet. Will try an ALPS RK50 soon and Kevin's Digital 256 Stepped Attenuator later.
> 
> Edit: My Mouser order including Phoenix Screw Terminals for my RK50 PCB was delivered today. So I will swap out the ALPHA for the RK50 tonight and give a listen.


 
 I hope the ALPHA is very good, 55 US compared to 800+ US.


----------



## Jones Bob

Swapped out the ALPHA for the ALPS. 

Not a night and day drastic change in SQ. The ALPHA is indeed very good. With the RK50, I notice there is less grain, more defined and tuneful bass, more drive, more open top end. Seems more dynamic with low level details fading away into nothing. All subtle but a definite step forward. There is a reason Kondo uses it in his high end products. Whether it is worth the cost is an individual choice.

Thanks to Kevin Gilmore for the PCB layout.


----------



## manywelps

I've got a multimeter, are there offset/balancing instructions for the SRM-1 mk2 pro?


----------



## vapman

One of my good friends and a fellow 10+ year member of this site grew up with Staxes. His dad had an amazng Stax rig.
  
 I've been wanting to get into Stax ever since and I'm about  to get  both a pair of Lambda Pros and a 252S.
  
 I'll use these for listening enjoyment no doubt since I always loved how these sounded, but they are also going to find a lot of use in my recording studio, where I no longer am able to use speakers, so Staxes seemed like the next best in terms of accuracy.
  
 Usually I would just plug whatever headphones I have into the headphone out of my mixing console, since it can drive 600 ohm Beyers. However, Staxes are obviously a different situation.
  
 I see they take unbalanced RCA in. The only unbalanced out on my mixing console is a tape out, which I use for recording, however the 252S has the passthru so it seems like I should be able to plug the tape out into that, and then the output jacks from that into my recording device, right?
  
 If there is a Stax amp that takes balanced inputs, I will give it serious consideration when I have (a lot) more money to spend.


----------



## astrostar59

vapman said:


> One of my good friends and a fellow 10+ year member of this site grew up with Staxes. His dad had an amazng Stax rig.
> 
> I've been wanting to get into Stax ever since and I'm about  to get  both a pair of Lambda Pros and a 252S.
> 
> ...


 
 My old SRM-717 has balanced input. The current 323 and 727 do as well I think?
 If you can buy second hand instead of new, I would get an SRM-717, it is a great amp, better than the current lineup IMO. Also the Lambda Nova Signature is cleaner and smoother than the Lambda Pro which I had and found they were a bit bright and edgy in the treble. The 007 iOS better than the Lambdas, the 507 around the same as my old LNS.
  
 I would buy second hand, find a little used example, then build up to the 007 or 009 later.
  
  
 Good luck.


----------



## vapman

astrostar59 said:


> My old SRM-717 has balanced input. The current 323 and 727 do as well I think?
> If you can buy second hand instead of new, I would get an SRM-717, it is a great amp, better than the current lineup IMO. Also the Lambda Nova Signature is cleaner and smoother than the Lambda Pro which I had and found they were a bit bright and edgy in the treble. The 007 iOS better than the Lambdas, the 507 around the same as my old LNS.
> 
> I would buy second hand, find a little used example, then build up to the 007 or 009 later.
> ...


 

 Thanks for the hints bud! A head-fi'er responded to my Stax amp WTB post in the classifieds and turns out he only lives 20 minutes from me, so I might get try see how a lot of different amps sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I know a SRM 252S isn't the most exciting Stax amp in the lineup but if it can drive these I'll be more than happy. Plus, it doesn't seem like all Stax amps have the line out as well as line in. Balanced line in would be amazing, but I wouldn't be able to give up the built in line out. That feature will be absolutely necessary if I want to make this work in my studio setup.
  
 P.S. I'm still searching around so I'll probably find out myself before anyone says so, but what are the Stax SRM-XS mods I've heard of but not about/what they improve?
  
 I don't remember how fancy the Stax system I heard was, pretty sure it was just SR Lambda Pros and one of the nicer amps, but I'm just excited to dive into Stax world myself.


----------



## gepardcv

Many (most?) people who build DIY electrostatic amps make them with balanced inputs and balanced loop-outs. I did this with my builds. You might want to see if a KGSS or KGSSHV would suit your needs, there were several in the "for sale" section recently. If not, then don't hesitate to get the 252S. It's a great little amp.


----------



## reiserFS

Not sure if someone has posted this before, but here's a rare sight: 
  
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/STAX-SRM-T2-SPS-T2-with-SR-OMEGA-T2-Omega-/301703327239?hash=item463eeb6e07


----------



## rgs9200m

gepardcv said:


> Many (most?) people who build DIY electrostatic amps make them with balanced inputs and balanced loop-outs. I did this with my builds. You might want to see if a KGSS or KGSSHV would suit your needs, there were several in the "for sale" section recently. If not, then don't hesitate to get the 252S. It's a great little amp.


 
 I'm not sure exactly why, unless it's difficult to have both se and balanced and balanced wins when you have to choose. My Mjolnir KgssHV has both types, and both modes have their own strengths.
 Balanced is a little fuller in the bass but also has more direct treble, while the SE has smoother, a bit warmer highs, which is just what the doctor ordered for the SR009. I tried both and like the SE better.
 Also, the lower gain maybe w/SE could help if there is a stepped attenuator (I don't have this, so I'm speculating here).


----------



## Earspeakers

I've got a 252 for work. If you need a Stax amp on the cheap then it's a good option, but I like all other Stax and DIY amps quite a bit better. Keep an eye on used sales, sometimes you can get an older Stax for good prices. I'm listening to a T1/mk2 at the moment which is wonderful, I think I like it better than the 323S (this is on a Sigma/Sigma Normal which seems to need SS to 'punch through' the reticence of the Sigma)
  
 Also Stax is supposed to come out with two new desktop amps this year (i.e. not expensive)


----------



## rgs9200m

I'll probably try to sell my (black) 007t-ii  amp w/ new-ish RCA Cleartop tubes for about $1250 when I get around to it.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

reiserfs said:


> Not sure if someone has posted this before, but here's a rare sight:
> 
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/STAX-SRM-T2-SPS-T2-with-SR-OMEGA-T2-Omega-/301703327239?hash=item463eeb6e07


 
 The infamous flipper, Wiktor...who doesn't succeed in selling Stax gear for silly prices.This ad has been popping up regularly for several years 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## AudioCats

manywelps said:


> I've got a multimeter, are there offset/balancing instructions for the SRM-1 mk2 pro?


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/648596/stax-srm-1-mk2-re-cap/15


----------



## AudioCats

vapman said:


> ...
> P.S. I'm still searching around so I'll probably find out myself before anyone says so, but what are the Stax SRM-XS mods I've heard of but not about/what they improve?
> 
> I don't remember how fancy the Stax system I heard was, pretty sure it was just SR Lambda Pros and one of the nicer amps, but I'm just excited to dive into Stax world myself.


 
  
 I think the SRM-Xs mod was about installing bias circuit components onto the board so it can drive pro-bias phones (the XS is for electret phones, bias parts were not installed on the board).
 Basically converting a Xs to a Xh.


----------



## astrostar59

Different subject
 I don't see many folk here talking about the Woo GES anymore. I just sold my SRM-717 to an 009 user who also has a demo Woo GES on loan. It got me thinking - the GES is sat right in the current the Stax amp price band as opposed to 2 or 3 times that price for a BHSE, WES, LL2 or Eddie Current.
  
 Has anyone got this amp or had it with the 007s or 009s and how does it sound compared to other stat amps? I remember the WES went off the boil here a bit, seemed like many had that amp and now have moved on. I have not heard the WES but read that Innerfidelity review saying it ran out of steam and got confused on complex music. I do like the things Woo are doing with triodes and dynamics. The GES seems a simple circuit (unlike the WES with 12 tubes) as is based on a Kevin G design.


----------



## n3rdling

I think the GES is a steal for the price. A much cleaner tube sound than the stax tube amps. I like it more than the WES.


----------



## jibzilla

astrostar59 said:


> Different subject
> I don't see many folk here talking about the Woo GES anymore. I just sold my SRM-717 to an 009 user who also has a demo Woo GES on loan. It got me thinking - the GES is sat right in the current the Stax amp price band as opposed to 2 or 3 times that price for a BHSE, WES, LL2 or Eddie Current.
> 
> Has anyone got this amp or had it with the 007s or 009s and how does it sound compared to other stat amps? I remember the WES went off the boil here a bit, seemed like many had that amp and now have moved on. I have not heard the WES but read that Innerfidelity review saying it ran out of steam and got confused on complex music. I do like the things Woo are doing with triodes and dynamics. The GES seems a simple circuit (unlike the WES with 12 tubes) as is based on a Kevin G design.


 
  
 I had a ges and modded 727ii and preferred the 727ii. Mjolnir Audio has a ges type amp for sale. I would go for that over the woo ges. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## DutchGFX

Shameless plug, I'm selling my Lambda Pros, so I'll be leaving the Stax mafia soon. I sold my Stax amp a while ago so I have no real use for the headphones. I did like them quite a bit but I can't take 5 amps to college so I decided to get rid of my Lambdas


----------



## Earspeakers

Here's a new one, I've got a Siggy with a continuous noise in the right channel. It's a modulated sound, kind of like one of those old tube radios you'd get all sorts of "woops" and squeals from. It's very quiet, and I thought it was my amp until I moved the headphone to a completely different one (KGST to a 323S) and I hear the same thing. It makes this low level noise regardless of if there is music playing or not.
  
 I'm guessing some of the internal components are acting as a little RF transducer and picking up on some RF. Thoughts on fixing this?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I've had this kind of sound on my SR-X/mk3 pro. It was a small black particle (0.2 mm at most) on the mylar (maybe from the old worn pads), and generated buzzing sound sometimes. Hopefully with this driver desing, I was able to unmount the frame and get rid of it with a small paint brush.
 Which headphones are you talking about ?

 Ali


----------



## vapman

earspeakers said:


> Here's a new one, I've got a Siggy with a continuous noise in the right channel. It's a modulated sound, kind of like one of those old tube radios you'd get all sorts of "woops" and squeals from. It's very quiet, and I thought it was my amp until I moved the headphone to a completely different one (KGST to a 323S) and I hear the same thing. It makes this low level noise regardless of if there is music playing or not.
> 
> I'm guessing some of the internal components are acting as a little RF transducer and picking up on some RF. Thoughts on fixing this?


 
 Make a basic tuning coil and place it on top of your amp. would at least let you know if it's RF interference or not. are you using it on a power supply with noisy transformers nearby or something? maybe it's electical interference on the power supply's end? if i'm not mistaken both those are DC powered amps so if it's electrical interference you could try on a different outlet and/or a compatible PSU.


----------



## oorzweet

Hi, i recently obtained a nice set of SRD-4 and SR-40 stax headphone.  at the moment i don't have  a decent amplifier so i'm searching for a dac-amp combo which i can put on my desktop and connect to my computer.  Does anyone know a decent one for under 200 euro?
  
 The headphones have not been used for about 20 years,  and at some frequencys they crackle a bit. overall the detail is overwhelming, i think this is real hifi, wow!
  
 Would love some help selecting a budget dac-amp and maybe cleaning the headphones to reduce the "Crackle" . 
  
 i have heard about measuring the continuity with a multimeter, how would i do that?


----------



## rgs9200m

I really have to eat some crow here after messing around with Stax amps for years with The SR007 and SR009, tube rolling, power cord / interconnect swapping, other tweaks and getting the KGSS/hv (just the original mini).
 So my humble advice is to just stop fooling around and wasting time, email Mjolnir or comb the want-ads and get a KGSS whatever.


----------



## purk

rgs9200m said:


> I really have to eat some crow here after messing around with Stax amps for years with The SR007 and SR009, tube rolling, power cord / interconnect swapping, other tweaks and getting the KGSS/hv (just the original mini).
> So my humble advice is to just stop fooling around and wasting time, email Mjolnir or comb the want-ads and get a KGSS whatever.


 
 Yup the KGSSHV is such a great deal for the money if you have the highend Stax phones.


----------



## rgs9200m

Purk is right. I even had an R10 too for a few years (now sold) and I feel the SR009 is the new king, more musically satisfying and more natural, speedy, and resolved and less fatiguing in the highs than the Sony.


----------



## vapman

Today I was reading about electric eels and found out they can discharge up to 600 volts at 1 amp for a couple milliseconds. If you could sustain that shock and then convert it to an audio signal, you could probably hear what an electric eel shock sounds like, and you could use the eel as the source and amp?


----------



## astrostar59

vapman said:


> Today I was reading about electric eels and found out they can discharge up to 600 volts at 1 amp for a couple milliseconds. If you could sustain that shock and then convert it to an audio signal, you could probably hear what an electric eel shock sounds like, and you could use the eel as the source and amp?


 
 Hey, I want what you are smoking... Ha Ha very funny. I get stung a lot by Jelly Fish and I am scared of Snakes.
 Has anyone been kiiled by wearing Stax headphones with wet hair?


----------



## vapman

purk said:


> Yup the KGSSHV is such a great deal for the money if you have the highend Stax phones.


 
 Guys, while I would love to hear a KGSS-anything, $2200 + shipping minimum is by no means a budget option unless the Euro is a lot stronger than I thought 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






oorzweet said:


> Hi, i recently obtained a nice set of SRD-4 and SR-40 stax headphone.  at the moment i don't have  a decent amplifier so i'm searching for a dac-amp combo which i can put on my desktop and connect to my computer.  Does anyone know a decent one for under 200 euro?
> 
> The headphones have not been used for about 20 years,  and at some frequencys they crackle a bit. overall the detail is overwhelming, i think this is real hifi, wow!
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you don't mind PCI vs USB you can get some awesome deals on cards with nice quality line out. That's all you'll need. The PCI version of E-MU 0404 sells for next to nothing. All you need is the breakout cable with the audio jacks, and use one pair as output, hook into any Stax amp, and there you go. I personally have two EMU 0404 USB i use (one that goes into my Stax amp, one that stays in my recording studio for quick recordings)
  
@oorzweet I think your best option is getting some cheap and good DAC, maybe DIY, that can output a good line out signal, and then get a cheap Stax amp that is compatible. Some models seem to end on eBay fairly regularly for under $200. I think you should get one of those and a decent DAC for your computer. With headphones as good and detailed as Stax, your amplifier will be Stax as well, so the most important part of getting sound from your computer into the Stax amp will be the DAC. There are plenty of solid state Stax amps that will work well, IMO don't get into tube amps until you have ~$400+ to spend on one and can afford to replace tubes when & if necessary. Stax did a really, really nice job with the majority of their solid state amps.
  
 I don't know if both hte SRD-4 and SR-40 are normal or pro bias so make sure you don't get an amp that is normal only/pro only if you have the other.
  
 (edit: wait how are you using them if you are looking for a dac/amp combo? do you have an amp already? i don't think there are any combo dac/amps that support electrostatics!)
  


astrostar59 said:


> Hey, I want what you are smoking... Ha Ha very funny. I get stung a lot by Jelly Fish and I am scared of Snakes.
> Has anyone been kiiled by wearing Stax headphones with wet hair?


 
  
 Uh oh... I have long hair and just bought my first pair of stax!
 I guess wait to see if I stop posting, check in the obituaries near me and see if anyone got killed by their headphones...


----------



## Earspeakers

ali-pacha said:


> I've had this kind of sound on my SR-X/mk3 pro. It was a small black particle (0.2 mm at most) on the mylar (maybe from the old worn pads), and generated buzzing sound sometimes. Hopefully with this driver desing, I was able to unmount the frame and get rid of it with a small paint brush.
> Which headphones are you talking about ?
> 
> Ali


 

 Sigma normal->pro conversion. Its not a buzzing, but more like one of those old radio sets sound when you're dialing in the station (think 1940's film with somebody at a wireless set and one of those big loop antennas on top). It modulates in and out over time, sounds like an RF downconversion phenomenon. I have a 6GHz NA/SA I can use to snoop around, but I doubt I'll find much. It's on a power regenerator too.


----------



## vapman

earspeakers said:


> Sigma normal->pro conversion. Its not a buzzing, but more like one of those old radio sets sound when you're dialing in the station (think 1940's film with somebody at a wireless set and one of those big loop antennas on top). It modulates in and out over time, sounds like an RF downconversion phenomenon. I have a 6GHz NA/SA I can use to snoop around, but I doubt I'll find much. It's on a power regenerator too.


 

 Have you tried the idea I posted above? I only take a small coil made of copper. A loose one about the size of a CD twisted around 2 or 3 times would be sufficient.
 I would only think it's something dirty in the driver if it occurs during playback and not while the headphones are plugged in but not outputting a signal.
  
 Are you plugging your headphones into either amp, with nothing at all hooked up to the line in on the back? I assume you are just plugging in the headphones and turning the amp on and then hearing the buzzing. If the line in is connected disconnect it for now.
  
 Before you dig around and start trying to clean the drivers, move both amps to a completely different outlet somewhere in the house and see if the noise persists. If it does, and copper coil on top doesn't do the trick, I suppose it COULD be an improperly done job of converting the Sigmas to pro (were they sent back to Stax for modification or was it a DIY effort?)
  
 Unfortunately when dealing with such high voltages as this some AC interference could definitely make itself heard. these are very high precision tools... i would say if moving outlets seems to fix the problem somehow, your next investment should be a power conditioner - every serious recording studio has several to deal with this EXACT issue!


----------



## wink

Quote:n3rdling 





> I think the GES is a steal for the price.


 
 According to some high up in the Stax mafia, the Woo GES either hasn't the correct bias resistor of 5 megohms or, no resistor at all.
  
 This will cause problems in the long term for any earspeakers connected to a GES.
  
 Apparently Kingsound suffer from the same problem.
  
 Be aware.


----------



## Earspeakers

vapman said:


> Have you tried the idea I posted above? I only take a small coil made of copper. A loose one about the size of a CD twisted around 2 or 3 times would be sufficient.
> I would only think it's something dirty in the driver if it occurs during playback and not while the headphones are plugged in but not outputting a signal.
> 
> Are you plugging your headphones into either amp, with nothing at all hooked up to the line in on the back? I assume you are just plugging in the headphones and turning the amp on and then hearing the buzzing. If the line in is connected disconnect it for now.
> ...


 

 No, I mentioned above it's on a power conditioner already. I also have an extensive Stax and amp collection, and haven't seen this with any other pair. Also, the fact that I hear it with a highly filtered/regulated supply in the KGST, as well as in a unregulated supply of a Stax amp indicates it might not be in the power supply. 
  
 My day job is an engineer in scientific instrumentation,  the stuff used to keep airports safe and your cell phone towers working (not to mention all the A&D applications.) That's why I have a 100k network analyzer in my office which I can use to troubleshoot. I'll try your idea though - sometimes the simple things are best, but I'm seriously doubting I'll find anything this way as it's acting exactly like a non-linearity in a component can downconvert a RF signal. 
  
 Example of this, something I worked on is the software for cell tower test. You know one of the big culprits? Rusty bolts. A stupid rusty bolt on a tower will have this exact effect, with the result of messing up your cell call due to PIM (passive intermodulation distortion). 
  
 Anyhow, this is a Siggy I bought from a Head-Fi member, who got it from another head-fi member who "did a professional job", so who knows. But if it is the rusty bolt effect then it could be due to some grit, leftover deteriorated grill, or a misaligned driver. I'll do some investigating and report back.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Saw an ad for two Lambdas NB + SRD-7/SB + extension cable for...1850 $ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 "Low ballers will be ignored". No kidding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## vapman

Quote:


ali-pacha said:


> Saw an ad for two Lambdas NB + SRD-7/SB + extension cable for...1850 $
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 OG Lambdas???
 We're gonna tell us where, aren't you? Unless you just got it yourself, of course...


earspeakers said:


> No, I mentioned above it's on a power conditioner already. I also have an extensive Stax and amp collection, and haven't seen this with any other pair. Also, the fact that I hear it with a highly filtered/regulated supply in the KGST, as well as in a unregulated supply of a Stax amp indicates it might not be in the power supply.
> 
> My day job is an engineer in scientific instrumentation,  the stuff used to keep airports safe and your cell phone towers working (not to mention all the A&D applications.) That's why I have a 100k network analyzer in my office which I can use to troubleshoot. I'll try your idea though - sometimes the simple things are best, but I'm seriously doubting I'll find anything this way as it's acting exactly like a non-linearity in a component can downconvert a RF signal.
> 
> ...


 
 Curiouser and curiouser!
 I knew you had a formidable Stax collection, but not KGST-owner level.
  
 However, we work in the same sort of analog/digital wireless communications field, and while I'm not expecting my coil idea to be a surprise fix, it actually was for a couple of friend's stereo setups. One added ferries to his cables, the other just leaves the copper coil sitting on top 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And of course these are lowly dynamic headphone users, what with their puny voltage requirements and lack of heavy amplification..
  
 I digress though. I think you are very well suited to find the buzz factor here. I missed where you said you use power conditioners, so my instinct leads me to believe it's coming from the amp itself or the mod job was not as professional as said forum user claimed, although it is possible something could be making itself present just with the ~600v current flowing through them. I did not think it would be the power supply but I would firstly check if any resistors are allowing high voltage interference to pierce thru, and it not, try to shield the whole thing better.
  
 I just found out the KGSS HG is available as a DIY kit, so I can't help but think I might end up building one by the end of the year... damn these Lambda Spirits I just bought!
  
 could i bother you to post pics on your test gear? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i reaaaaaaaaaaally love test gear pics...


----------



## Earspeakers

vapman said:


> OG Lambdas???
> We're gonna tell us where, aren't you? Unless you just got it yourself, of course...
> Curiouser and curiouser!
> I knew you had a formidable Stax collection, but not KGST-owner level.


 
  
 And KGSSHV, Megatron, T2, and a Carbon, lol ... admittedly while the KGSSHV and Megatron are a day or two from being finished, the T2 is halfway while the Carbon are getting part sourced. I do like Stax gear


----------



## vapman

Well if you decide not to grab those 2x Lambdas and they're not something i missed here on classifieds... 
  
 let me know how your repair goes... my moneys still on the "professional job" of "pro bias"


----------



## manywelps

Is there a solid rundown of the SR-207vs307vs407vs507?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

vapman said:


> OG Lambdas???
> We're gonna tell us where, aren't you? Unless you just got it yourself, of course...


 

  
 Ali


----------



## vapman

1. has anyone heard bother the 323S, SRM-1 and 252S?
 2. are the difference bween the 322S and SRM-1 that big, and is the 252S as bad as people say it is?
  
 I found out KGSSHV can be DIY'd, so I will do this, but want a nice CLEAN and analytical sounding amp for recording purposes...


----------



## Ali-Pacha

vapman said:


> but want a nice CLEAN and analytical sounding amp for recording purposes...


 
 Go get HD800 + GS-X/mk2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## astrostar59

manywelps said:


> Is there a solid rundown of the SR-207vs307vs407vs507?


 
 I read they are progressively better so IMO get the 507. The extra money is small IMO but the 507 does sound nice. I had the LNS and they were nice, close to the 507. The next jump to an 007 is massive costwise. Buy a 507 from PJ or secondhand if budget is tight. My advice.


----------



## vapman

ali-pacha said:


> Go get HD800 + GS-X/mk2
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 one day.. but for now, i already know i i love the uniqque sound of  electrostatics and have pcb's to buld a kgsshv on the way. don't worry, i know what i'm doing...
  
 are the kgsshv notoriously colored? i will stick to one of the more neutral stax amps if so.


----------



## manywelps

vapman said:


> are the difference between the 323S and SRM-1 that big


 
 Or what is the difference? because now I'm curious.


----------



## gepardcv

manywelps said:


> Is there a solid rundown of the SR-207vs307vs407vs507?


 
  
 I tried all side-by-side except the 507 (which I believe is identical to the 407 except for leather pads). They just get brighter and more expensive. I personally chose the 207 — nothing about the others sounded worth the extra cost.
  


vapman said:


> is the 252S as bad as people say it is?


 
  
 Nothing wrong with the 252S. It's inexpensive, tiny, and runs cool. Unlike every other electrostatic amplifier.
  
 I compared it with the KGST and KGSSHV I recently finished building. I volume-matched each headphone (207, the recently-updated 007, and a borrowed 009) and amp by ear as best I could, and swapped them between amps playing from the same source. The 252S acquitted itself well. The KG amps both sound better, of course, with improved control and clarity, especially at higher volumes — louder than I normally listen to. They're also much larger, run hot, and were not cheap to make.


----------



## gepardcv

vapman said:


> are the kgsshv notoriously colored? i will stick to one of the more neutral stax amps if so.


 
  
 What gave you that idea? The KGSSHV is quite neutral. There may be some variation depending on the semiconductors used in the build, but it'll be minor. None of the KG designs I heard (BH, KGSSHV, KGST) have anything remotely resembling "notoriously colored" sound.


----------



## realmassy

I like the 252 too, I keep it on my desk and use it when I don't want to switch my tube amp on. It drives the 009 well, doesn't sound bright at all, all in all is enjoyable.


----------



## Tinkerer

Does anybody know if the SR-007 Mk II headband is identical to the SR-007 BL? It feels like that would be consistent with all the other black replacement parts being discontinued for the new models like the leather ear pads.


----------



## georgep

It is the same except for the "007 mk2" imprinted in large font along the top.


----------



## vapman

manywelps said:


> Or what is the difference? because now I'm curious.


 
  
 I myself have no idea.
 A member PM'd me saying that the 323S and SRM-1 were comparable models, and that the 323S was preferable.
 I have nothing to base this on. The only Stax setup I have ever heard in my life is Lambda Pros thru a SRM-1 MK2.
 I don't think i've seen anything to substantiate which is the better amp.
  


gepardcv said:


> What gave you that idea? The KGSSHV is quite neutral. There may be some variation depending on the semiconductors used in the build, but it'll be minor. None of the KG designs I heard (BH, KGSSHV, KGST) have anything remotely resembling "notoriously colored" sound.


 
  
 I honestly think it was just because I was reading so much of the KGSSHV build thread offsite that the sonic differences between different components was getting to me, and I couldn't tell if it was a neutral/natural sounding build or had a distinct "color" to the sound.


----------



## Earspeakers

vapman said:


> A member PM'd me saying that the 323S and SRM-1 were comparable models, and that the 323S was preferable.


 
  
 They sound different to my ears. And if they're different, why is one preferable?


----------



## vapman

earspeakers said:


> They sound different to my ears. And if they're different, why is one preferable?


 

 That's what I tried to find out. but, this person stated the SRM-1 would be worse sounding due to having aging capacitors.
 Yet, those caps aren't in the audio signal's path, even if they were it'd be an easy fix, so I'm going to go ahead and assume that the two are not as similar as implied


----------



## Earspeakers

vapman said:


> That's what I tried to find out. but, this person stated the SRM-1 would be worse sounding due to having aging capacitors.
> Yet, those caps aren't in the audio signal's path, even if they were it'd be an easy fix, so I'm going to go ahead and assume that the two are not as similar as implied


 

 Urrr, OK. 
  
 It depends on what you're driving, type of music you listen to, and your preferences I think. For me (classical only), I generally prefer the SRM-1/MK-2, and especially the PP version, if I had to pick one. The 323S, like all the modern Stax gear including the headphones, has more "oohm-pah", thus I enjoy the 323S with a Sigma Pro late edition as it has the drive and push to push past the reticence of those headphones well. 
  
 I prefer the SRM-1 with Normal headphones, it does wonderfully well with the very sweet and laid back 5 Gold, or SR-Xmk3 (mk2 isn't too bad either). It also does pretty well with an older Sigma Normal. Generally speaking the older Stax gear seems to do better with Normal headphones, and have a more laid back presentation. The pinnacle is the SRA-3 which is very sweet. 
  
 My 2 cents anyhow. 
  
 Edit: Oh and yeah, the 252 is better than anything non-Stax you'll listen to, but I'd find an older SRM-1 which will run the same or less.


----------



## vapman

Thanks so much for your mini-review, @Earspeakers . Your post was very helpful, it is nice to hear an unbiased opinion from someone who knows both amps well.
 I would have been very surprised if they had identical sound signatures.
 I knew I had to be wary of what I was hearing when I was told that the SRM-1 was worse than the 323S because of older parts used


----------



## Earspeakers

Not making blame, but there's seems to be a lot of attitude around Stax amps. Plenty of complaints (about build and sound) and talk about how much they this and that and so forth. It's not my experience, the build and technology is all top notch for the time and to the price point, and they all have their unique sound signature. I love 'em all, and each has a place. Another thing is how much people love to modify older Stax equipment to improve their _inferior_ design, it's sometimes hard to find original that hasn't been hacked into. Keep that in mind when you buy older Stax equipment. 
  
 I vary my headphone and amp every time I listen so my brain doesn't "lock" onto one as the gold standard. From this experience the thing I conclude is that they're all wonderful, and the only preference I have is that some headphones do generally seem go better with some amps (including the Mafia versions), for some music. And it depends on my mood too.


----------



## vapman

That's why I was hoping for some direct comparisons from people who know both amps well 
 Definitely seems like there's a lot of enthusiasm from every end of this crowd. Nothing wrong with it at all, but everyone's got their tastes!
 IMO I prefer to leave older stuff stock unless something breaks.
 One day I'll be able to hear them all for myself


----------



## Earspeakers

This morning listening to old Lambda Signature Normal on a NOS SRM-006t/v1 (2 P + 1N) I got from some crazy dentist who bought multiple backup units. At this point Stax couldn't use Toshiba tubes anymore (as they were out of business) and the stock units are Ei. The 006t has a delayed warmup relay that they started to add with, I think, the T2, and is a welcome feature I'd like in all my amps. The 006t/v1 has an easier time driving Normal than Pro, and really struggles with Sigma where you want to crank it up to the point that you'll get distortion on dynamic peaks. But it's a warm, forgiving tone that complements more direct headphones very well. They tend to get a little hot (well all Stax and Mafia amps do), so I run them with an external variable chassis fan to keep things nice and running cool.
  
 I also have a ED-1 in the signal chain which was designed to correct these headphones. Some people like this unit, others don't, for me they are _indispensable. _Without them the instrumentalists are 'smeared' across the sound stage. It does 'lift' the frequency response (to my ears) making it "lighter" (I wouldn't use the term brighter) and more accurate, but mainly the players lock into their location beautifully. 
  
 At any rate this is a very good combination, and welcome after a week or two of Sigmas, which I went to for just some relaxed listening with a good soundstage. I gather Stax had been going for thinner membranes back then which peaked with these headphones, and led to the 'Stax etch' complaint from some customers. I've talked to some who hear the etch, and others who don't. I don't hear it, other than what exists in the source material. Strings in the upper registers have an etchy sound. So do Harpsichords. These headphones reproduce that perfectly. They're also the most delicate and nuanced Stax headphone I have. Even the 009 is heavy-handed compared to these beauties. Listening to them is rather like being up in the clouds I imagine, you just float along with this delicate, perfect reproduction. Wonderful for strings and small ensemble. With large orchestral it depends on if you want to hear all the detail or not. I wouldn't try Nielson symphones with them (think of a Wagner-Beethoven mashup), but classical era Haydn or Mozart would be perfect, since those ensembles were pretty much a large String quartet with some wind hang-ons. 
  
 At any rate the slight 'syrupy thickness' from the 006 tones down the Lambda Sig just a tad, and I'm listening to the complete repertory of Boccherini while I work at the moment, which the two play perfectly as a team.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

You mean Lambda Signature, right ? They aren't normal bias....
  
 Quote:


earspeakers said:


> They're also the most delicate and nuanced Stax headphone I have. Even the 009 is heavy-handed compared to these beauties. Listening to them is rather like being up in the clouds I imagine, you just float along with this delicate, perfect reproduction.


 
 This. I may add the bass slam is pretty impressive, and these Lambda Sig make you understand that even the easy-to-drive 009 (compared to 007) need more steam than Lambda designs to really shine.

 Ali


----------



## Earspeakers

> You mean Lambda Signature, right ? They aren't normal bias....


 
  
 Actually they did both, I have a Lambda Signature Normal and a Lambda Signature Professional. "Before and after the break" is how I think of them. On my TODO list is to put them both on an amp with dual bias to directly compare. 
  
 Quote:


ali-pacha said:


> This. I may add the bass slam is pretty impressive, and these Lambda Sig make you understand that even the easy-to-drive 009 (compared to 007) need more steam than Lambda designs to really shine.


 

 Thanks for your insight, with classical music, bass slam really only comes into play when the piece has an orchestral bass drum, so I'm not very aware of that component. 
  
 Having said all this I don't think it's my place to live in the clouds all the time. So while I absolutely love how these reproduce, I seem to like to ping-pong with a more 'mitigated' ear speaker like the Sigma (the modern production is somewhere in between these too, with extras thrown in). But then I get bored of that sound after a while and come back.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

The first Lambda were normal bias (I've one of them), but I've never ever heard about normal bias Lambda Sig. How do they look ? Brown 6-pin jack ? Rockwool damping in cups or not ?

 Ali


----------



## vapman

Oh guys, while we're on the subject of tube Stax amps, someone offered me a broken T1. He said he plugged it in, something wasn't right (the thing that was not right was unclear), and some resistors related the left channel are blown. He says he can still use it but the volume level in the left side is much lower. I've fixed countless amounts of solid state gear but this would be my first time working on something tube based if I get it. Anyone have any idea what might make one channel's resistors fry, and if so if anyone's got anything I should know before attempting repair on something tube and high voltage?
  
 I'm comfortable with SMD soldering and all that, it's just I've never owned anything tube powered that wasn't a guitar amp...


----------



## mulveling

vapman said:


> I knew I had to be wary of what I was hearing when I was told that the SRM-1 was worse than the 323S because of older parts used


 
  


vapman said:


> Oh guys, while we're on the subject of tube Stax amps, someone offered me a broken T1. He said he plugged it in, something wasn't right (the thing that was not right was unclear), and some resistors related the left channel are blown. He says he can still use it but the volume level in the left side is much lower. I've fixed countless amounts of solid state gear but this would be my first time working on something tube based if I get it. Anyone have any idea what might make one channel's resistors fry, and if so if anyone's got anything I should know before attempting repair on something tube and high voltage?


 
  
 Strong logic skills.


----------



## vapman

mulveling said:


> Strong logic skills.


 

 so it's just a normal repair... i didn't know if dying T1's were a common thing or not or if there was something tube-users recognized as obviously wrong!


----------



## purk

vapman said:


> so it's just a normal repair... i didn't know if dying T1's were a common thing or not or if there was something tube-users recognized as obviously wrong!


 
 The T1 is over 20 years old man.  Stuffs can break down.


----------



## vapman

purk said:


> The T1 is over 20 years old man.  Stuffs can break down.


 

 Yeah, i know, he admitted he did something wrong that broke it though. What it was, i;m not entirely sure.


----------



## Earspeakers

ali-pacha said:


> The first Lambda were normal bias (I've one of them), but I've never ever heard about normal bias Lambda Sig. How do they look ? Brown 6-pin jack ? Rockwool damping in cups or not ?
> 
> Ali


 
  
  
 Damn, your right. I must have been thinking of something else, they're both Lambda Pro Sig. Apologies for the confusion, too many headphones to keep straight


----------



## milosz

I wonder what the average age is where you can no longer hear the "Stax etch" in the treble of the Lamda Sigatures?


----------



## Earspeakers

I suspect it's perceptual or aural memory, maybe being used to the sound of magnetic hysterisis (and anything except acoustic is produced on magnetic drivers). Anyhow my 13 year old doesn't hear it for example.  He thinks they sound fantastic, and that his dad is a little dotty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 This morning I'm listening on a new SRM-T1 (tubed with GE, don't know if factory original or aftermarket). I guess T1/T2 indicated "Tubed", while the non T later variants (SRM-1) are SS, unless it has a 't' later as in the 006t. Anyhow this guy is really a treat with the Lambda Sig. Smooth, light, nuanced, nearly perfect in that sense. I think I prefer it better to the 'thicker' 006t (Ei tubes), it just feels like a bit more music. 
  
 Of the Stax amps I've heard so far (323, SRM-1/mk2, SRM-T1W) I think like this guy the best. The SRM-T1W is a bit more harmonically rich, and has more features (and is bigger!), but this one just seems to work right. But again I like variation even more, so will be listening to them all. 
  
 Edit: Later ...
  
 You know I still often am floored at what these headphones do. Strings, in particular, are hard to reproduce for some reason. Regular speakers just never got it right - nor did planars or horns. They have crossovers, room effects, difficulties with needing to push power, air impedance matching, hysterisis effects in some designs ... the one thing I didn't try was 'stats. Too expensive maybe, or I wasn't brave enough to mess with it, but perhaps I would have been happy there. 
  
 But these headphones are a wonder. Just a single no-crossover thin membrane DC coupled to a simple two stage preamp/amplifier. It's simplicity and perfection in a bundle. And because it's a capacitor, it plays the dual role of both the transducer and the amplifier output matching device (like an output coupling cap or transformer). I used to design and build amps for those other systems, nothing approached the simplicity of a Stax amp. 
  
 Anyhow the strings are just dancing around in these Boccherini quartets, and in my experience have never heard such accurate reproduction. Pure amazing ...


----------



## rgs9200m

Etch I don't think is a frequency thing. Even if you EQ to suppress the highs, a phone or speaker with etch will still show it, esp. in vocals, where it's most irritating. Perhaps strings also.


----------



## Earspeakers

Yeah I agree, I also suspect it's not a raw frequency thing. To me it sounded like _muddled_ high frequencies. Violin in particular seems to have a lot of high frequency scratch that comes from dragging a rosin coated bow over a steel string - this is what gives it the characteristic sound we expect. This is different from the harmonic color you get from a plucked string in a Harpsichord or guitar.
  
 I just had my wife, who has long been a record collector and popular (at least non-classical) music lover. She has a discerning ear I've used over the years. Anyhow I tested her with string quartets, Lambda Signature and a SRM-1, with the ED-1 which 'lifts' the HF a bit - should be a worse case. She thought it sounded good and didn't hear anything that could be described as etch. Anecdotal ... 
  
 Anyhow speaking of HF somebody here asked for a comparison between the SRM-1mk2 and SRM-1 PP (Pro-Pro - the only SRM-1 with two Pro ports, serial numbers CXXXX). In short they're quite similar, except I have to say in this case the PP is a bit better. I've always found the HF range of the SRM-1/mk2 to be somewhat constricted. Don't know what that means, but it's the response I have from it. Not annoyingly, but noticeable. The PP however doesn't have that characteristic, it's just even and solidly good from top to bottom. Maybe the first Stax amp that sounds more like a Mafia amp, yet still retaining that Stax character. A rather nice 'tube like' SS perhaps. It also has a seriously good bottom end of course. 
  
 Don't construe too much from this, they're quite alike, but there is difference.


----------



## rgs9200m

Yep, I had the Lambda about 15 years ago and just found it parsed continuous tones too much and moved on the the SR007 then the 009. I could not go back to the Lambda (Nova Signature). However, this was just with the T1W amp, so maybe it was just the amp, not the phone, so take this with a grain of salt (or less).


----------



## milosz

Etch from a Lambda Signature is due to the thinner diaphragms (the thinnest diaphragms ever used by Stax) being somewhat underdamped; there's some ringing above 5~6 kHz which is actually excited by lower frequencies. Using an amp with better control- BHSE, T2, Megatron-  the etch from the Lambda Signatures almost disappears. It's also not too bad on the humble T1, which was designed with Lambdas in mind.
  
 Stax went back to thicker diaphragms after the Lambda Signature complaints about etch.
  
 The Lambda Signtures were the only Stax headphones to use a 1.0 micron diaphragm.  All the other earlier Lambdas  used 1.5 micron. The Nova series Lambdas went back to 1.5 micron after all the complaints about etch.
  
 The newer Lambda-like Stax headphones use 1.35 microns as well as the SR-007's and SR-009's.


----------



## edstrelow

Since I have been damping my Stax phones with sorbothane I have a totally different perspective on the sound qualities of various phones.  The issues of harshness have far more to do with the undamped resonance of earcups than things like the drivers and amps.  
  
 I should make it clear that by damping, I am not talking about damping the diaphragm with things like foam placed behind the driver.  I am talking  about vibrations of the earcups caused, I assume by simple Newtonian principles that for each action there is a corresponding reaction, so that as the driver moves in accordance with the musical signal, an equal amount of energy moves back into the earcup.   To my surprise I found, starting a few years back, that even small amounts of materials like sorbothane which are designed to convert mechanical energy to heat, could markedly change the sound of phones, when applied to parts of the earcups.
  
 This problem seems almost totally ignored in headphone design, except by Sennheiser in the design of the HD800 and even they don't seem to have got a good solution.
  
 Bottom line, unless you just like spending money, before you upgrade to things like super amps, try $1.00 worth of sorbothane (although a sheet and possibly some glue may cost you $20.00.)  
  
 My Lambda Pro and 404 become quite different and improved phones with some 1/8 or preferably 1/4 inch sorb added to the baffles.


----------



## Earspeakers

The crappiest full sized Stax (207) on the worst amp (252) sounds better than anything else I've heard. I'm happy enough without gilding the lily


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Normal bias Lambda + SRD-7 are also a cheap treat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## vapman

I went outside to get some sandwiches, walk down the street, pass a porch sale, notice some headphones, and what are they but a SR-X MK3 and a SRD-7


----------



## paradoxper

vapman said:


> I went outside to get some sandwiches, walk down the street, pass a porch sale, notice some headphones, and what are they but a SR-X MK3 and a SRD-7


 
 AND


----------



## vapman

paradoxper said:


> AND


 

 Well, does anyone know where to get replacement earpads for these SR-X's? These are so worn out I think they'll turn to dust if I look at them wrong...
 I convinced the person to not sell them to anyone else while I ran back to my apt and grabbed a little cash 
 They're making friends with my E-MU 0404 USB right now.
  
 I'll post pics in a few minutes, too busy with them on my head


----------



## paradoxper

vapman said:


> Well, does anyone know where to get replacement earpads for these SR-X's? These are so worn out I think they'll turn to dust if I look at them wrong...
> I convinced the person to not sell them to anyone else while I ran back to my apt and grabbed a little cash
> They're making friends with my E-MU 0404 USB right now.
> 
> I'll post pics in a few minutes, too busy with them on my head


 
 Did you trade your sandwich for the Stax? StaxUSA should have stock.


----------



## vapman

paradoxper said:


> Did you trade your sandwich for the Stax? StaxUSA should have stock.


 

 Oh man, I forgot all about the sandwiches. I haven't eaten all day. I was so excited about the headphones I forgot I meant to get them... Also didn't know StaxUSA was a thing so thanks =)


----------



## paradoxper

vapman said:


> Oh man, I forgot all about the sandwiches. I haven't eaten all day. I was so excited about the headphones I forgot I meant to get them... Also didn't know StaxUSA was a thing so thanks =)


 
 We've all starved for Stax. Congrats!


----------



## DougD

vapman said:


> Oh man, I forgot all about the sandwiches. I haven't eaten all day. I was so excited about the headphones I forgot I meant to get them... Also didn't know StaxUSA was a thing so thanks =)


 
  
 I bought some replacement pads for the SR-X last year from StaxUSA for $35. The old pads were original and pretty sad, the new ones made a big difference, at least cosmetically.


----------



## Earspeakers

ali-pacha said:


> Normal bias Lambda + SRD-7 are also a cheap treat


 

 I've got a stack of them that came along for the ride with other purchases. Puzzled how best to go about hooking them up, finally decided that it had to be a Stax DA-80 to do the job right. Will know in a week or so  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I just ordered three SRD-X replacement pads, but as things turned out only need two. If anybody wants to buy the spare off me PM.


----------



## Rayzilla

vapman said:


> ... They're making friends with my E-MU 0404 USB right now...




LOL. Lucky find. No yard sales where I am at.

I enjoy reading your posts. Quite entertaining. 

Hope to get into some STAX myself one day. I finally got to try the 009 on a unobtainable amp (in my case). It was set up for me with a simple Marantz dac and the Mal Valve amp. Bass is just about right on this. Still prefer the soundstage of the HD 800 but I enjoyed the 009 in the 60 minutes that I had with them. I should have tried the 800 with this same set up since it can also run dynamic, then I would have an even better comparison between the two.

My budget will enable me to get the 009 but limit the amp to low end for about a year. So I am considering the 323s. How will the sound change compared to something like the Mal Valve now that I have a reference point?

And since I have the green light to make this big purchase, I might be able to slip in another small purchase in the same order from PJ. Would the 507 just collect dust if I add that to my purchase?


----------



## vapman

I'm trying to find a good companion for the USB DAC and SRD-7... since it piggy backs on a power amp and wants at least 5V, I was hoping to find something more portable than having a stereo amp anywhere I want to use the SRD-7 
  
 I don't have any other amp with non-pro bias outputs, and it doesn't seem like there's anything terrible about the SRD-7. Just would be nice to have a better option than a Son of Ampzilla or NAD integrated.


----------



## labrat




----------



## Pokemonn

my collection of Stax amps 
 Im currently use Stax SRM323S.


----------



## gameon

pokemonn said:


> my collection of Stax amps
> Im currently use Stax SRM323S.




which earspeakers are you using with the 323s?


----------



## Pokemonn

I use


gameon said:


> which earspeakers are you using with the 323s?


 

 I use SR007mk2 recently.
 I prefer SR007 over SR009.
 I don't prefer high end brighter headphones.


----------



## Earspeakers

All those amps you have tend toward being a little bright (depending on how you define/perceive that). The 323 has a high frequency kind of itchy thing going on. Only the really old Stax tube amps don't have this or much of it, like the 3S. With something like a KGST it goes away, and then I have to pump up the 007 a bit to keep from falling asleep. The Pawel 007 equallizer works well here. 
  
 Listening to 007mk2, KGST and Pawel at the moment with Beethoven string quartets, a great combination. While the 007 isn't my favorite headphone by far I've made my peace with it


----------



## Pokemonn

Thank you for your advice! @Earspeakers!
 I didn't know that Stax amps are bright until now. Thanks for info!
 I have never heard non-stax amps yet. 
 Now I really want a KGST or non-Stax amp...


----------



## Rayzilla

pokemonn said:


> Thank you for your advice! @Earspeakers!
> I didn't know that Stax amps are bright until now. Thanks for info!
> I have never heard non-stax amps yet.
> Now I really want a KGST or non-Stax amp...


 

 You could send one of those STAX amps over here to carry me over for about a year before I can get a KGST or KGSSHV or something like that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just a question for you since you live in Japan. Can you get the STAX gear at near to PJ prices but without the PJ Service Fee and Shipping Fees? And I guess sales taxes would apply?


----------



## Pokemonn

rayzilla said:


> You could send one of those STAX amps over here to carry me over for about a year before I can get a KGST or KGSSHV or something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Those Stax amps runs at Japanese AC100V only. maybe can be mod? I don't know well about voltage mod.
 I checked PJ, I think Japanese price are not different from outside Japan price.
 I think it good timing to buy Japanese products cheaply due to very weak yen and very strong US$.
 Sales tax is currently 8% now in Japan.
 Domestic shipping fee in Japan is about 10$(about 800 yen).


----------



## Rayzilla

pokemonn said:


> Those Stax amps runs at Japanese AC100V only. maybe can be mod? I don't know well about voltage mod.
> I checked PJ, I think Japanese price are not different from outside Japan price.
> I think it good timing to buy Japanese products due to very weak yen and very strong US$.
> Sales tax is currently 8% now in Japan.
> Domestic shipping fee in Japan is about 10$(about 800 yen).


 
 Should be able to use a step down transformer (I think that is what it is called) to bring the local 220v down to 100v.
  
 Do you mean that the price that you have to pay is close to what the members in the US have to pay? Does the sales tax in Japan work the same as most countries in that export sales are not subject to the tax?


----------



## Pokemonn

yes transformer can work.
 and yes I mean I guess that there are no big difference between Japanese pay and US payment.
 I'm not familiar with tax. Im sorry! I am not smart enough. lol
 but my prejudice to HKer are very smart and super rich! They have much US$ assets! lol
 Singaporians too!


----------



## Earspeakers

pokemonn said:


> Thank you for your advice! @Earspeakers!
> I didn't know that Stax amps are bright until now. Thanks for info!
> I have never heard non-stax amps yet.
> Now I really want a KGST or non-Stax amp...




Not so much bright, especially in the Stax tube versions, but "itchy". Except with Normal headphones all which sound great on Stax amps. I think Stax didn't really push the amp design when they went Pro, especially with the Sigma, and except in the T2


----------



## astrostar59

earspeakers said:


> Not so much bright, especially in the Stax tube versions, but "itchy". Except with Normal headphones all which sound great on Stax amps. I think Stax didn't really push the amp design when they went Pro, especially with the Sigma, and except in the T2


 
 Dunno, my Lambda normal phones sounded etched on every godam amp it was attached to...


----------



## Earspeakers

Yes that discussion keeps popping up. Some hear etch, some don't, I'm a don't. Anyhow I'm talking about something different I called "itch". SRM-1/mk2 has it the worst, and the 323 carries it forward, but less so.


----------



## astrostar59

earspeakers said:


> Yes that discussion keeps popping up. Some hear etch, some don't, I'm a don't. Anyhow I'm talking about something different I called "itch". SRM-1/mk2 has it the worst, and the 323 carries it forward, but less so.


 
 I see. That sounds even worse. Is it that 'itch' that makes you want to err, change the amp i.e. upgrade-itice?


----------



## Earspeakers

I don't upgrade, I collect. They all sound wonderful when given a chance in the right context.


----------



## preproman

"I don't upgrade, I collect"  An instant classic quote.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I've listened to Lambda Sig + SRM-1/mk2 for hours (and also to a lot of other Stax'en), and I don't really understand this "etch" thing
 Undoubtly bright (though very solid bass), kind of faked transparency with way too much air around the sound, but never ever irritating.
 For me, an etch in treble is something gritty, grainy, fatiguing, like a bad-driven HD800.

 Ali


----------



## rgs9200m

earspeakers said:


> I don't upgrade, I collect. They all sound wonderful when given a chance in the right context.​


 
 Even better, you curate.


----------



## Earspeakers

ali-pacha said:


> kind of faked transparency with way too much air around the sound, but never ever irritating.


 
  
 It's a real transparency, but that doesn't always mean it's good. Lambda Normal to Lambda Pro era really shine I think with small ensemble. String quartet, classical era symphony (e.g. Mozart). These are usually miked simply, like some XY variation in a empty concert hall. With Diffuse field equalization (ED-1 type) you heard _almost_ precisely what it sounds like to be 5 feet from a string quartet, chair shuffle and scrapes, groans, breathing, bow rosin and all. Without the Diffuse field the Cello is 'smeared' across the sound field, and there is an artificial midrange warmth added (this is the natural headphone). 
  
 But in some contexts that's too much reality, say while listening to the Damnation of Faust by Berlioz. Big music, big ensemble, big boom-boom dynamics. You'll hear every bit of it, but it's too much reality. In a real concert you wouldn't be that close to it, not as close as they place the mics, so while it's interesting to me as a musician to hear that much detail (it sounds rather like being in the orchestra), it's not a natural audience experience. It beats me down after about five minutes anyhow. 
  
 And with non-classical/non acoustic like rock/popular music, well those are recorded specially. Many channels, and the job of the recording engineer is to separate the musicians as much as possible, then bring them together in the Console into something that makes sense. I don't think you want to peer too closely into that mix. That's a hard problem as a listener as you're trying to also create reality, so you end up being a recording (or playback) engineer a bit too. This seems to give rise to much of the audiophile hobby. 
  
 Anyhow, the 009 has this kind of 'too much reality' too sometimes for me (but in a different way), I'll have to admit it intimidates me a bit and I haven't really found yet a place for it. There however it's not as much transparency as 3D imagery. 
  
 2 cents


----------



## edstrelow

ali-pacha said:


> I've listened to Lambda Sig + SRM-1/mk2 for hours (and also to a lot of other Stax'en), and I don't really understand this "etch" thing
> Undoubtly bright (though very solid bass), kind of faked transparency with way too much air around the sound, but never ever irritating.
> For me, an etch in treble is something gritty, grainy, fatiguing, like a bad-driven HD800.
> 
> Ali


 
 You may be onto something here.  I have noticed that damping phones with sorbothane eliminates a sort of pseudo-airiness.  Here is what I wrote in another thread:http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/damping-mechanical-resonance-distortion-of-stax-and-other-phones-with-sorbothane
  
 "One of my earliest experiments like this involved pulling off a sorb strip from a Stax Sigma. Removing the sorb *increased* the volume quite noticeably. I.e. the sorbed phones need to have the volume turned up a bit. But what you heard was a sort of added ambience in the unmodded phone. It was not unpleasant but it is not the real music either, rather I am now convinced it is a general grunge as the earcups are driven to vibrate as much as the driver and thus adding their own signature sound to that of the driver. Newton's laws of physics state that energy equal and opposite to that coming through the drivers is getting into the earcups."
  
 However this effect is not limited to Stax phones although the transparency of the Stax may make it more obvious.  Others have reported in the above  thread that the damping effects are quite marked for various dynamics as well.
  
 One of the more notable effects of damping phones is that I now hear the studio/hall ambience which was covered up by the resonance in the earcups.


----------



## wink

Quote:Earspeakers 





> I don't upgrade, I collect.


 
 I  have your affliction/curse/asset/talent/whatever.


----------



## astrostar59

wink said:


> I  have your affliction/curse/asset/talent/whatever.


 
 It can be a nice release of sorts, to be able to 'let stuff go' a sort of simplification of life, when it is getting to complicated.
  
 I dig that part, plus I prefer to part fund the next piece so I can come to terms with the loss from list price of that item.
 If an amp is really damb good, it should trounce all previous amps anyway IMO. Yes I dig the 'flavours' thing, not sure if it is worth the cost in monetary terms?


----------



## vapman

Can anyone tell me if the *STAX SR-30/40 Earpad *from STAX USA is the same as the SR-X Pads? The SR-X pads were in stock a few days ago, now they're sold out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The picture for both is the same, but I'm not sure if that's STAX USA being lazy or if they're actually the same things. Couldn't really decide from google images if the SR-30's looked to be the same size as my SR-X's.
  
 I'm going to refrain from posting pics of my SR-X MK3's until I get new pads on them, or at least the current pads taken off. It's seriously not safe for your brain to see the pads as they are right now. I would break some sort of rule, if not a forum rule than a general moral one. In fact, I've been refusing to try them on for real until I get new pads on them, so I really need to get my pad situation alleviated.
  
 Likewise, if any kind soul has a spare set of SR-X pads they could manage to part with at least until the SR-X pads come back in stock, please PM me!
  
 On a semi-related know if anyone knows how to safely remove the headband of a SR-X for cleaning, I am too worried about breaking anything to try and figure it out. I'll let the pros tell me where to start.


----------



## Earspeakers

Lambda being driven by a SRD-7 coupled DA-80.
  
 Seriously Stax


----------



## HemiSam

Does that DA-80 run as hot as I'm thinking it does?  Looks great.
  
 HS


----------



## Earspeakers

Notice the cooling fans on the top?


----------



## HemiSam

I'll take that as a yes...LOL.  Good stuff.
  
 HS


----------



## Earspeakers

The only active Stax gear that doesn't get hot is the equalizers. I guess they figured that in the winter it would warm up the paper walled traditional Japanese houses, and in the summer it wouldn't make any difference anyhow with the humidity 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I always did my best to visit in the Fall or Spring. 
  
 Though to be fair the Mafia amps get hotter.


----------



## HemiSam

Not my KGST.  I can run it half a day and lay my hand on top of where the tubes stand indefinitely.  Not all the designs are the same outside of the boards.
  
 HS


----------



## vapman

What is the origin of the quote I read somewhere that Stax intentionally use hard leather on their pads? Is there a reason cloth pads for certain models just don't exist anymore?


----------



## Earspeakers

My stock KGST gets 100++ at the top of the case which is a generous 6" above the tubes (most KGST builds I see are 3U-4U variants). So I pull the cover, given the tall design of mine the back electronics is well hidden. Even then it's throwing off more heat than any Stax amp (except the T2 of course.). A regulated supply and twice the tubes will do that. Oh well the 727 probably is about the same since it has four tubes. 
  
 Something to consider since the ratings on electrolytics plummet at around 100 degrees.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Just some thoughts about bass and seal with stax gear.
 I've a bald head. One time with my Lambda Sig, because of summer heat, I did try some very thin paper tissues beetween my ears and the cups. Avoiding sweat on earpads look like a good idea.
 Or not : bass slam was almost gone.
 I knew seal was critical considering bass on Stax...but I never expected it would be THAT much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## HemiSam

earspeakers said:


> My stock KGST gets 100++ at the top of the case which is a generous 6" above the tubes (most KGST builds I see are 3U-4U variants). So I pull the cover, given the tall design of mine the back electronics is well hidden. Even then it's throwing off more heat than any Stax amp (except the T2 of course.). A regulated supply and twice the tubes will do that. Oh well the 727 probably is about the same since it has four tubes.
> 
> Something to consider since the ratings on electrolytics plummet at around 100 degrees.


 
  
  
 The heatsinking Geoff did (headinclouds) is exceptional.  The man really knows his stuff on the design and fit and finish.  Perhaps he can share his thoughts with you.  I have pics of the internals, but I don't post those out of respect.
  
 I did a google on the Stax da-80 and "you can fry an egg on top of it" pops up....LOL.  Class A amp FTW.
  
 http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1056077807&&&/Stax-amplifiers-experiences
  
 Good thing you installed the fans.
  
 HS


----------



## Earspeakers

Geoff does first rate work, for sure, external mounted heat sinks will help. But I'm not saying I have a problem, just pointing out that the stock KGST with board mounted sinks generate a lot of heat.


----------



## rgs9200m

I have not heard a KGST, but although I really like tube sound (and own tube amps for dynamic phones), my Mjolnir KGSS-HV (mini) sounds nice and bloomy and well-textured and not shrill w/SR009 phones.
 I could be fooled into thinking this amp was a tailor made custom match for the 009.
 I've heard the 009 at a show with an expensive tube amp and with my Stax amp and always thought I would need to put up with the 009 fatigue factor, but the KGSS-HV makes the 009 engaging and sweet and musical, with a great see-through bass that is full of natural detail.
 I mention this because if the heat reported with a KGST is an issue, I would try a solid state KG amp from Mjolnir. It's just a really great amp.


----------



## vapman

Is it okay for me to ask if anyone in here has built a KGSSHV? I've read the build thread twice and feel like I can build it but I also feel like there's something I don't understand about the KGSSHV I don't. I apologize if this is not discussion intended for this thread.
  
 still amp-less, but one day I will have one 
  
 P.S. SRD-7 owners, when I got it at first I didn't realize the Stax transformer boxes and assumed it was a tiny amp. I thought I'd probably replace the power cord with a grounded one and redo the caps, but obviously the caps are not present here! Still, is there any benefit to adding a grounded power cord to this unit? I can't imagine anything else that would be good for it except to maybe clean out the knobs and replace the audio in cable - it has the old stock terminal to plug all your stereo wires into, and even though I know it uses crappy thin wire, I can't bring myself to chop it off! Anyone here own multiple versions of the SRD-7? I only have an early model of the oldest version.
  
 It would be really wonderful to own a SRD-7 MK2 one day. I hate that I have one not-real amp for normal bias phones and no amp for pro bias, even though I own Lambdas! This should change soon though...


----------



## Earspeakers

vapman said:


> Is it okay for me to ask if anyone in here has built a KGSSHV?


 
  
 It's OK to ask, doesn't mean <fill in the blank>. 
  
 I just finished one. Hard to source silicon now, some parts have seemingly dried up (1968's or 1986's, I forget). Plus it's an optioned board with a fair number of parts. If you haven't done a build yet I'd suggest to do a KGST. 
  


> P.S. SRD-7 owners, when I got it at first I didn't realize the Stax transformer boxes and assumed it was a tiny amp. I thought I'd probably replace the power cord with a grounded one and redo the caps, but obviously the caps are not present here! Still, is there any benefit to adding a grounded power cord to this unit?


 
  
 Small safety benefit to grounding the case. However I'm of the camp that says leave Stax gear alone unless you have to fix something. Too many folks running around doing stupid upgrades and tearing old gear apart, for no good reason. 
  


> I can't bring myself to chop it off! Anyone here own multiple versions of the SRD-7? I only have an early model of the oldest version.


 
  
 I've got a variety
  


> It would be really wonderful to own a SRD-7 MK2 one day. I hate that I have one not-real amp for normal bias phones and no amp for pro bias, even though I own Lambdas! This should change soon though...


 
  
 Not sure it really matters that much. If I really wanted to go transformer coupling on a Pro I'd get a Woo-Wee.


----------



## vapman

earspeakers said:


> I just finished one. Hard to source silicon now, some parts have seemingly dried up (1968's or 1986's, I forget). Plus it's an optioned board with a fair number of parts. If you haven't done a build yet I'd suggest to do a KGST.
> 
> 
> Small safety benefit to grounding the case. However I'm of the camp that says leave Stax gear alone unless you have to fix something. Too many folks running around doing stupid upgrades and tearing old gear apart, for no good reason.
> ...


 
 Sourcing silicon and the rest of the high voltage parts was my biggest concern.
 Do you think there's much of a sonic difference between the various SRD-7's?
 I plan to use my SRD-7 with a Crown D60 for as long as I can handle not buying a Stax amp. the Woo-Wee looks very cool but part of me thinks that if i'm spending $499 I could just get an amp that drives Pros and Normals both.
  
 Edit: by "do a build first" do you mean any amp build or a KG design specifically? I just finished repairing an old vector monitor for a Sega G-80, so i'm not scared of the voltages or the building it aspect.. a friend bought the boards a while back and wants to build it as a team effort. I want to build it with him, but if the advice is to not mess with the KGSSHV until you've done something else I will heed that advice.
  
 edit 2: Okay, now I really want a Wee-Woo.


----------



## HemiSam

earspeakers said:


> Geoff does first rate work, for sure, external mounted heat sinks will help. But I'm not saying I have a problem, just pointing out that the stock KGST with board mounted sinks generate a lot of heat.


 
  
 OK.  I thought we were comparing the heat put out by the KGST vs the DA-80.  Glad you're enjoying your Stax portfolio.
  
 I love that a new and highly reliable amp in the $2K range has a reasonable sized footprint, solid state/tubey (i.e. hybrid) goodness and makes my SR-007A's sound so damn good...makes the scream at the turn of a knob w/o being at all harsh.  Married up with the Ygg....homerun for a reasonable investment.
  
 Been listening to the SR-003's courtesy of a kind friend and I have to say I'm pretty impressed.  I don't find them comfortable over a long period, but the sound is WAY better than I would have ever expected.  Definitely great value for $.
  
 HS


----------



## preproman

I can vouch for Geoff's work on the KGST, they are just so damn beautiful.  It get's warm but not hot as my Pass Labs amp.  That aside.  I've heard a few KGSSHV in years past - I would take the KGST with the 009s, just my preference I guess.


----------



## HemiSam

preproman said:


> I can vouch for Geoff's work on the KGST, they are just so damn beautiful.  It get's warm but not hot as my Pass Labs amp.  That aside.  I've heard a few KGSSHV in years past - I would take the KGST with the 009s, just my preference I guess.


 
  
 Listening to acoustic Zeppelin tracks at the moment...The Battle of Evermore and now Going to California.  Life is good after a long work week....
  
 EDIT:  I'm several hours in now and temps up.  I'm reading ~30 degrees above ambient at the vented top plate above the tubes.  Say 80 degrees above ambient if I shoot down into the tip top of the tubes via the vented grid with the infrared thermometer.  You seeing similar or a delta to that?
  
 Beautiful stack you have there, pre.  
  
 HS


----------



## Rayzilla

rayzilla said:


> ....  My budget will enable me to get the 009 but limit the amp to low end for about a year. So I am considering the 323s. How will the sound change compared to something like the Mal Valve now that I have a reference point?
> 
> And since I have the green light to make this big purchase, I might be able to slip in another small purchase in the same order from PJ. Would the 507 just collect dust if I add that to my purchase?


 
 Every time I come back and read this thread, I start to inch closer and closer towards dropping the idea of a TOTL amp for my dynamic HPs and going for a STAX system. And like I said, since I have the green light to go ahead, I was thinking of the 009, 323s, 507 and now I thought about adding something like the SRD-7 so that I can also use the 009 or 507 at work or wherever there is a regular amp. Is there any difference in the sound when using one model from another (of those transformer adaptor boxes, i.e. SRD-7, or 4 or 6 or whatever model)? Any recommended with the system I am considering.
  
 I will most likely be buying from Price Japan but I couldn't find the SRD-7 on their website. I find that their website is not very user friendly.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Earspeakers

SRD-7 is EOL - obsolete. No longer made. Try the Woo Wee for modern production.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Too bad, I used to have an almost NOS SRD-7/mk2 for sale some months ago : http://www.head-fi.org/t/766616/fs-stax-srd-7-mk2





  
 Ali


----------



## Rayzilla

ali-pacha said:


> Too bad, I used to have an almost NOS SRD-7/mk2 for sale some months ago : http://www.head-fi.org/t/766616/fs-stax-srd-7-mk2
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 And it would have worked here in Hong Kong without requiring a step down transformer. I guess it was just not meant to be.
  
 BTW, I went to the local HP shop today to try out some TOTL amplifiers for my HD 800. That is the cross-roads I am at in terms of my next purchase: to upgrade my dynamic HP system or to try a new path with STAX. I have to say, I was mightily impressed with the Bryston BHA-1 with my HD 800. I also tried this other amp by Aurorasound called HEADA. It is exactly as Currawong described it in his review so I won't bother repeating it here. Also tried the Violectric V281. All of them were running from my MBA to Stello DA100 to the various amps.
  
 BTW, he mentioned that a few of his customers have STAX and that they had to send them back to Japan after about six months to repair because of the humidity issue in Hong Kong. I do have an electronic dry box, the type that is used for camera equipment. I would have to constantly store them in there when they are not used, which would be inconvenient, but I WILL do it. But when I use them, and sometimes leave them around on occasion, will the humidity thing be an accumulating issue, or will putting them in the dry box return them back to the 'original' dry state? Have any of you had problems with humidity that they had to be returned for repair?


----------



## vapman

i was unaware of any humidity issue. guess its just another reason i need to buy a dehumidifier... my poor staxes, i live close to the water


----------



## gepardcv

earspeakers said:


> My stock KGST gets 100++ at the top of the case which is a generous 6" above the tubes (most KGST builds I see are 3U-4U variants). So I pull the cover, given the tall design of mine the back electronics is well hidden. Even then it's throwing off more heat than any Stax amp (except the T2 of course.). A regulated supply and twice the tubes will do that. Oh well the 727 probably is about the same since it has four tubes.
> 
> Something to consider since the ratings on electrolytics plummet at around 100 degrees.


 

 I finally decided to check the temperature on my KGST. It's a 2U build, with the tubes just a few millimeters away from the fully-vented top panel. I never thought it ran particularly hot — I wouldn't keep my hand on it indefinitely, but it certainly doesn't burn. The temperature probe that comes with the Fluke 179 measured around 45degC tucked just inside a vent above one of the amp boards, between the two tubes, or around 20degC above ambient. FWIW, I run the PSU at 350V, and I used the largest Aavid heatsinks that fit in the available footprint where needed.


----------



## rfan8312

This is obviously a very beginner Stax post.

But, I just watched this very informative video which flows effortlessly and informs completely imo just what the Stax 009 is.

Until now I didn't realize exactly why the 009 is so highly regarded, but I'm starting to understand.

https://youtu.be/afkYRJU0Dlw


----------



## Earspeakers

gepardcv said:


> I finally decided to check the temperature on my KGST. It's a 2U build, with the tubes just a few millimeters away from the fully-vented top panel. I never thought it ran particularly hot — I wouldn't keep my hand on it indefinitely, but it certainly doesn't burn. The temperature probe that comes with the Fluke 179 measured around 45degC tucked just inside a vent above one of the amp boards, between the two tubes, or around 20degC above ambient. FWIW, I run the PSU at 350V, and I used the largest Aavid heatsinks that fit in the available footprint where needed.


 
  
 Looks right, 45C = 113F. Those 'lytics are rated for a shortened lifetime at 100F.
  
 You're right in that it doesn't feel particularly hot on top, but neverthless is quite hot inside. I put a PC rear vent chassis fan on all my amps as a simple solution. It blows the heat away on top, giving the heat inside an easier time to come out keeping the whole unit cooler.


----------



## astrostar59

earspeakers said:


> Looks right, 45C = 113F. Those 'lytics are rated for a shortened lifetime at 100F.
> 
> You're right in that it doesn't feel particularly hot on top, but neverthless is quite hot inside. I put a PC rear vent chassis fan on all my amps as a simple solution. It blows the heat away on top, giving the heat inside an easier time to come out keeping the whole unit cooler.


 
 I you sure re 100F? That sounds a bit low, most caps are ok till 85°C which is 185F. A typical cap that has 2000 hours at 85°C should have (for example) 10,000 plus at 45°C.
 IMO it is not good to have components hitting their temperature safe zone in normal usage.
  
 In many tubed amplifiers the heat generated and the way a design negates that has a marked effect on reliability and life of the component i.e. nobody wants to spend 3K + plus on a product and have it fail inside say 5 years minimum. Besides, components start to tank out of spec as the temp reaches their limits, so the SQ goes to all to hell .....


----------



## Earspeakers

astrostar59 said:


> I you sure re 100F?


 
  
 No not sure, I'm probably shooting my mouth off. But I did look into this a few weeks ago as I was trying to source some 10k hour caps. On checking again you are right, they were specifying in C and I think I mentally thought of it as F.


----------



## vapman

earspeakers said:


> Looks right, 45C = 113F. Those 'lytics are rated for a shortened lifetime at 100F.
> 
> You're right in that it doesn't feel particularly hot on top, but neverthless is quite hot inside. I put a PC rear vent chassis fan on all my amps as a simple solution. It blows the heat away on top, giving the heat inside an easier time to come out keeping the whole unit cooler.




Does the pc fan bother you noise level wise! I tend to use louder/faster fans that push a lot of air but I feel like it could go either way on being audibly distracting or not


----------



## Earspeakers

vapman said:


> Does the pc fan bother you noise level wise! I tend to use louder/faster fans that push a lot of air but I feel like it could go either way on being audibly distracting or not


 
  
 It's variable, on the lowest setting it gives a nice cooling breeze and is basically silent. Comes with a 12V adapter so just plug into the wall.


----------



## vapman

Nice idea. I'm excited to start helping friend build his KGSSHV but mostly hung up on enclosure options and cooling ideas.


----------



## milosz

astrostar59 said:


> Dunno, my Lambda normal phones sounded etched on every godam amp it was attached to...


 
 Wait a few years, or decades,  you won't be able to hear it as your hearing declines.....


----------



## Earspeakers

Somebody(s) is obsessing about getting old 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Doesn't bother me. Other than Beethoven all musicians keep going into their late years with no apparent loss of enjoyment or skill. It's all about the midrange anyhow, the upper freqs are for overtones you don't hear much anyhow.


----------



## audiokid

Hi guys, as a previous Stax owner, I'm reunited with a new set. I'm working from home a bit more at the moment, so a good desktop system is very much appreciated. 
  
 I own the new Stax 5170 system: 507s with the Kimik version of the 006ts. First impressions are good. 
  
 Previously I owned some 507s with the 323s. I was very fond of this system at the time, but circumstances changed and I wasn't so desk bound, so I moved them on. 
  
 It's hard to say from memory, but the 006ts could be a little smoother than the 323s. I had a similar experience when I owned the 007tii Kimik and 009 (a dealer purchase / extended demo that I couldn't justify at the time, and they were a bit scratched and worn too). With this flagship system I remember a more delicate, more refined sound but seemingly with less punch and groove than the 507/323s combo. Bizarre, I know. Ultimately the 007tii / 009 system was better, but thousands better? I was undecided, so I returned them
  
 Today, listening to the (Probably yet to run in) 006ts Kimik, I think overall it's better than the 323s, with the 507 (after all, I guess Stax have matched this system) but there was something about the 323s that I also liked. Maybe this is just from memory, and a comparison today may be very different. 
  
 Has anyone compared the 006ts Kimik with the 323s with the 507, or any similar comparisons and experiences? I guess it comes down to a 'valve vs solid state' debate. Any thoughts much appreciated, and wondering whether to give the 323s another go just to be sure the 006ts Kimik is the right choice.


----------



## Earspeakers

Had to look up what the 006ts "Kimik" was ... cryo tubes. Well whatever  ...
  
 The 006 is a nice amp, I have the first version with a Normal port. Mine happens to be sitting next to my 323. With a 507 I think it would be a better match than the 323. Late edition Stax amps and 'speakers tend to be more punchy and energetic than the earlier ones. The latest Lambdas have plenty of energy at any rate, no need to augment that with a 323 in my opinion.


----------



## vapman

Is the 323s a particularly bright amp compared to older Stax designs? I enjoy the sound of it but I'm wondering if that's why some older Lambdas are punchier than I remember


----------



## Zhaocx01

Hello there,
  
 I just bought a STAX SRM 717 amp. It was originally set to 100 V input.
  
 I heard that by changing the position of fuses it could be set to 110 or 115V input. Now the fuses are positioned in 1,3,6 position, could someone tell me how to change it to get it to a 115V input? Thanks!


----------



## Earspeakers

I wouldn't call the 323 particularly bright. It's got some punchy energy, and some top end scratchy that you don't find with others. But some older ones do it took, like the SRM-1/MK2. Interestingly the SRM-1 and the SRM-1/MK2 PP (Pro-Pro) don't have this either. With the SRM-T1 (S/W) it's a different story, but I think some of that characteristic is there too. 
  
 They're all somewhat different and it's hard to find words.


----------



## PATB

I would like to share my noob experience with the SR009.  I am driving it with a KGSSHV and this setup is probably the most revealing chain I ever owned.
  
 With a new Schiit Gungnir Multibit, I am now hearing faint artifacts (crackles/pops) on most of my CDs.  I thought something is wrong with this setup, so I used the same CDs (using a TASCAM CD-200 as a transport or ripped to FLAC) on my TEAC UD-301/SinglePower SDS-XLR/HD650 and, to my surprise, I can also hear the exact same artifacts on the exact same spot in the recording, but to a level that I never noticed before.  This occurs even on my "good CDs".  Now that I heard the artifacts with my SR009, I also notice them with the HD650.  The artifacts are not that bad, except that the GMB/KGSSHV/SR009 seem to accentuate them. I am putting up with this because with a perfect recording, the sound is glorious.  I do not remember the same problem with my Meridian G08/Head Amp KGSS/Stax Omega II MK1 (now sold).
  
 I am getting used to the extra resolution of the system but will probably be on the lookout for a more forgiving source once my wallet recovers.


----------



## edstrelow

Could it just be that the 009 is brighter than what you are used to.  It seems that several persons have commented about this. On the other hand better resolution means that you will start to hear the various artifacts on recordings, electrical as well as human. With some of my upgrades have come an increase is audibility of studio noises such as conductors flipping pages, trucks and planes in the background, etc.


----------



## PATB

The treble extension is good but it is not bright -- very smooth; I can listen to the SR009 for hours.  I consider the Grado RS-1 bright, but very musical, so I like it too.  
  
 When I stop listening for artifacts (and light drum tap, hand rasp on the guitar, moving position relative to the microphone, etc), I forget about them and just enjoy the music.  I just need to get used to this level of resolution.  I have an HD800 on the way, so  will probably give the SR009 a break to recalibrate my ears


----------



## astrostar59

patb said:


> The treble extension is good but it is not bright -- very smooth; I can listen to the SR009 for hours.  I consider the Grado RS-1 bright, but very musical, so I like it too.
> 
> When I stop listening for artifacts (and light drum tap, hand rasp on the guitar, moving position relative to the microphone, etc), I forget about them and just enjoy the music.  I just need to get used to this level of resolution.  I have an HD800 on the way, so  will probably give the SR009 a break to recalibrate my ears


 
 I think the 009s needs a source close to the budget of those phones i.e. 3K really. I am not saying your Gungnir is not good, those guys make great DACs for the money. What I am saying is you can't beat a high quality source. The 009s are the equivalent of adding 50K speakers onto your system, you get my drift.
  
 I would try and save or source a second hand very good DAC. I prefer R-2R with tubes in, but there are other great DACs about for 3K, Metrum Pavane, mid level Lampizator, Audio Note Kit DAC 4.1. All are around 3K US. Then the balance of your system will be correct IMO. I have a KGSShv and depending on the fets used, it can be a warm sounding amp, which is good for the 009s and digital generally IMO.
  
 Good luck, and welcome to the crazy and exciting world of high end headphones!


----------



## PATB

astrostar59 said:


> I think the 009s needs a source close to the budget of those phones i.e. 3K really. I am not saying your Gungnir is not good, those guys make great DACs for the money. What I am saying is you can't beat a high quality source. The 009s are the equivalent of adding 50K speakers onto your system, you get my drift.
> 
> I would try and save or source a second hand very good DAC. I prefer R-2R with tubes in, but there are other great DACs about for 3K, Metrum Pavane, mid level Lampizator, Audio Note Kit DAC 4.1. All are around 3K US. Then the balance of your system will be correct IMO. I have a KGSShv and depending on the fets used, it can be a warm sounding amp, which is good for the 009s and digital generally IMO.
> 
> Good luck, and welcome to the crazy and exciting world of high end headphones!


 
  
 Thanks Astrostar.  I am saving my pennies for the Pavane or the ANK 4.1.  I saw the new ANK 5.1 at the California Audio Show: ANK wants $5.5K for the kit.  Now that I have a semi-decent source, I am actually thinking of getting the 4.1 kit and build it on my spare time.  I just need to get my Meridian G08 back from repair and try that first before making any decision on the source.  The Meridian G08 has the traditional Meridian house sound, which I believe will pair well with the SR009.


----------



## astrostar59

patb said:


> Thanks Astrostar.  I am saving my pennies for the Pavane or the ANK 4.1.  I saw the new ANK 5.1 at the California Audio Show: ANK wants $5.5K for the kit.  Now that I have a semi-decent source, I am actually thinking of getting the 4.1 kit and build it on my spare time.  I just need to get my Meridian G08 back from repair and try that first before making any decision on the source.  The Meridian G08 has the traditional Meridian house sound, which I believe will pair well with the SR009.


 
 I would say the DAC 4.1 will beat the Pavane. You are getting R-2R, no filter for the best Non Oversampling sound possible. Then you have a great over specified power supply, tube regulation and a great output stage with twin 5687s. I use Tungsols 1960s, they sound amazing.
  
 I have build 3 DAC kits, 2 x 3.1s and 1 x 4.1. It takes maybe 10-12 hours to build, so 3 big slots. You can't go wrong with that DAC. I have heard the factory DAC 4.1 and they sound the same to me, very close in both design and sound. The UK DAC 4.1 costs £10K, thus the kit is a bargain IMO.


----------



## purk

patb said:


> The treble extension is good but it is not bright -- very smooth; I can listen to the SR009 for hours.  I consider the Grado RS-1 bright, but very musical, so I like it too.
> 
> When I stop listening for artifacts (and light drum tap, hand rasp on the guitar, moving position relative to the microphone, etc), I forget about them and just enjoy the music.  I just need to get used to this level of resolution.  I have an HD800 on the way, so  will probably give the SR009 a break to recalibrate my ears


 
 Glad you are enjoying the SR009.  You will really love the HD800 out of your SDS-XLR, speaking from another SDS-XLR owner.  Despite bad track records, the SDS-XLR continue to be best sounding dynamic amp in my collection.


----------



## Michgelsen

zhaocx01 said:


> Hello there,
> 
> I just bought a STAX SRM 717 amp. It was originally set to 100 V input.
> 
> I heard that by changing the position of fuses it could be set to 110 or 115V input. Now the fuses are positioned in 1,3,6 position, could someone tell me how to change it to get it to a 115V input? Thanks!


 
  
 I can't help you, but I know that this has been discussed many times before. Do a thorough search here, also using google with site:head-fi.org, and perhaps also on the other forum.


----------



## PATB

purk said:


> Glad you are enjoying the SR009.  You will really love the HD800 out of your SDS-XLR, speaking from another SDS-XLR owner.  Despite bad track records, the SDS-XLR continue to be best sounding dynamic amp in my collection.


 
  
 Yeah, I am looking forward to the HD800.  I auditioned it with the GS-X Mark II and it is much better than the reviews.  I can interpolate from the audition that it will be perfect for the SDS-XLR.


----------



## purk

patb said:


> Yeah, I am looking forward to the HD800.  I auditioned it with the GS-X Mark II and it is much better than the reviews.  I can interpolate from the audition that it will be perfect for the SDS-XLR.




Your interpolation is correct. I run mine with Tungsol round plate and it is quite excellent. The size and depth of the soundstage is where the SDS really rules. Bass is stellar as well.


----------



## karlgerman

Hi astrostar59,
 As you might remember, i was planing to test the TotalDac after my friends are ready to give it to me.
 Situation changed as they send it back to France after they finally got the Pavane. All of them realized the Pavane as best sounding DAC in the test cycle.
  
 Comparing to the TotalDac there is explicit less distortion on the Pavane as it was told to me.
 Next thing was that a cd-drive was better in sound quality than the Windows and the Mac Computer.
  
 This is very surprising but i know that some of them has similar hearing preferences so i will accept this statement for now.
 Now i wait to get the Pavane as a competitor to the Esoteric D-02 in near future.


----------



## bearFNF

zhaocx01 said:


> Hello there,
> 
> I just bought a STAX SRM 717 amp. It was originally set to 100 V input.
> 
> I heard that by changing the position of fuses it could be set to 110 or 115V input. Now the fuses are positioned in 1,3,6 position, could someone tell me how to change it to get it to a 115V input? Thanks!


 
 Try this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/45#post_9730764


----------



## rx79ez08

There is also a hand drawn note that someone made a while ago on this forum that tell you exactly what you need to do.
  
 I have used it to rewire my 717.
  
 Will dig it out tonight when I get home.


----------



## Earspeakers

I just bought a 717 from Japan (have a friend over there who navigated the auction). Even though it was a domestic version it has the jumper block on the back


----------



## bearFNF

earspeakers said:


> I just bought a 717 from Japan (have a friend over there who navigated the auction). Even though it was a domestic version it has the jumper block on the back


 
 Is it just my eyes or does that look like it needs a good cleaning?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Nice buy though.


----------



## Earspeakers

bearfnf said:


> Is it just my eyes or does that look like it needs a good cleaning?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Probably just the picture, it comes from a high end audio store which verifies the condition and operation. And thanks, the 717 has been the hardest to find.


----------



## audiokid

earspeakers said:


> Had to look up what the 006ts "Kimik" was ... cryo tubes. Well whatever  ...
> 
> The 006 is a nice amp, I have the first version with a Normal port. Mine happens to be sitting next to my 323. With a 507 I think it would be a better match than the 323. Late edition Stax amps and 'speakers tend to be more punchy and energetic than the earlier ones. The latest Lambdas have plenty of energy at any rate, no need to augment that with a 323 in my opinion.




Thanks, good to know. The last day or so listening to the 5170 system has been fantastic, maybe it's settling in as its only a few days old.


----------



## rx79ez08

zhaocx01 said:


> Hello there,
> 
> I just bought a STAX SRM 717 amp. It was originally set to 100 V input.
> 
> I heard that by changing the position of fuses it could be set to 110 or 115V input. Now the fuses are positioned in 1,3,6 position, could someone tell me how to change it to get it to a 115V input? Thanks!


 
  
 Try this post:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/23625#post_9627206
  
 I have followed that instruction and it seem to work quite well.


----------



## Michgelsen

Nice one! Mine has the jumper block as well. I have a black 717, which was even harder to find, but I've been very happily using it for the past five years with my 007.
 Design-wise, I really like the rectangular and simple front panel. It's too bad Stax switched to using round buttons, leds and corners.
  
 Quote:


earspeakers said:


> Probably just the picture, it comes from a high end audio store which verifies the condition and operation. And thanks, the 717 has been the hardest to find.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

earspeakers said:


> I wouldn't call the 323 particularly bright. It's got some punchy energy, and some top end scratchy that you don't find with others. But some older ones do it took, like the SRM-1/MK2. Interestingly the SRM-1 and the SRM-1/MK2 PP (Pro-Pro) don't have this either. With the SRM-T1 (S/W) it's a different story, but I think some of that characteristic is there too.
> 
> They're all somewhat different and it's hard to find words.


 
 Is C-version of SRM-1/mk2 Pro that different from P.P. version ?

 Ali


----------



## preproman

karlgerman said:


> Hi astrostar59,
> As you might remember, i was planing to test the TotalDac after my friends are ready to give it to me.
> Situation changed as they send it back to France after they finally got the Pavane. All of them realized the Pavane as best sounding DAC in the test cycle.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Audible distortion in the TotalDAC??  That's interesting.    The TD is one of the cleanest sounding DAC's I've heard.  Cleaner than any DAC with tubes I've heard thus far.  That includes the AMR DP-777 (non SE), the La Scala MKII, the Lampizator L4 G4, the Audio Note kit 4.1 (Built by Digital Pete).  Only the Audio Note 5 Signature sound more clean.  
  
 The Pavane looks like it's engineered really well, so is the TotalDAC.  I suspect they returned the DAC because the Pavane gave them enough enjoyment at a much lower cost rather than it has less audible distortion.  The TotalDAC side by side with my Bricasti M1 (that measures very, very well) shows no signs of distortion at what's normal listening levels for me.
  
 I would like to hear both DAC's side by side.


----------



## Earspeakers

ali-pacha said:


> Is C-version of SRM-1/mk2 Pro that different from P.P. version ?


 

 Oddly all the SRM-1's are different. Some subjective notes, but remember while I'll call some out as technically better they're all really good
  

*SRM-1 (Normal-Normal)* Technically up at the top of the lot, but Normal only naturally. Very different transistor and design from V2, I don't have the details but noticed when I cleaned inside. It's smooth and even, not punchy and a little scratchy like the later ones, competes with the PP below. Love it. 
*SRM-1/MK-2 Professional (**Pro-Normal)* Technically probably the bottom of the bunch. Has an aggressiveness to it that I'm not entirely fond of. This is A and B versoins
*SRM-1/MK-2 PP (Pro-Pro)* Best of the MK2's, smooth, even, everything you want from SS with little to detract. Version C - I don't know if there is a version C that isn't PP, and if it's the same as the PP C or not. A friend who has heard them all says the PP C version is technically the best of the MK2's
  
 Dats what I know


----------



## Earspeakers

michgelsen said:


> I have a black 717, which was even harder to find, but I've been very happily using it for the past five years with my 007. Design-wise, I really like the rectangular and simple front panel. It's too bad Stax switched to using round buttons, leds and corners.


 
  
 Agree, I like the older rectangular buttons too. Color wise my favorite is the champaign, next aluminum and black last (but not that I don't like it). The most beautiful in my book are the SRM-T1M's which are a darker champaign, and the biggest (widest) of the amps. In aluminum the DA-80 looks the best, rack mount with a polished front panel and handles, next best are the old aluminum, like the 12S/3S and early SRM-1's. 
  
 Edit: AFAIK the SRM-T1M is the same color as the famed T2, and the only two with that color (though I haven't seen a T2 in person).


----------



## Michgelsen

I like black because it matches my 007BL very well. I don't like the brown leather and cable on the normal 007, so I had to go black all the way.
  
 I think you mean the SRM-T1W instead of M? I have never seen one in person, nor have I seen a SRM-T1S, which I think has the same color too. From the photos I've seen, I think I prefer the 'normal' champaign. On the photos they often get a bit of a purple or green haze over them.


----------



## TheAttorney

preproman said:


> Audible distortion in the TotalDAC??  That's interesting.
> 
> The Pavane looks like it's engineered really well, so is the TotalDAC.  I suspect they returned the DAC because the Pavane gave them enough enjoyment at a much lower cost rather than it has less audible distortion.


 
 I would guess that "audible distortion" is a language translation issue.
  
 One advantage the Pavane  has over TotalDAC is that there is only one Pavane model.
 There are far too many TotalDAC variants and options for me. Whichever one I chose, I'd be forever fretting about upgrades etc.
 Of course, for some people this choice would be very attractive.


----------



## preproman

theattorney said:


> I would guess that "audible distortion" is a language translation issue.
> 
> One advantage the Pavane  has over TotalDAC is that there is only one Pavane model.
> There are far too many TotalDAC variants and options for me. Whichever one I chose, I'd be forever fretting about upgrades etc.
> Of course, for some people this choice would be very attractive.


 
  
 Well, that for certain is not a sound quality advantage.  Some may look at that as a disadvantage.  Whatever ever the case may be.  For me Budget helps to drive decisions.  If it fits in the budget I will consider it, if it does not I won't even think about it.


----------



## Earspeakers

> I think you mean the SRM-T1W instead of M? I have never seen one in person, nor have I seen a SRM-T1S, which I think has the same color too. From the photos I've seen, I think I prefer the 'normal' champaign. On the photos they often get a bit of a purple or green haze over them.


 
  
 Wups, correct I meant W. And yes I forgot about the SRM-T1S which appears to have the same color, I have one on the way so will be able to compare directly. For the normal champaign I have a 006T mk1 which is really light. So much so that it doesn't really give an impression of anything, really just looking like a dusky aluminum. The 717 looks (in pictures, it's also on the way) to be a darker 'normal' champaign. 
  
 The T1S/T1W/T2 are the ones that stand out. I agree with the purple/green haze but it's probably just a photographic artifact or monitor, in real life they look great.
  
 With black I like the SRM-1/MK2 PP/SRM-T1 the best, as having the deepest, darkest black. Some of the others (e.g. ED-1/Signature) it's a lighter black. Just different because of who they used to anodize, or also it might be that they tried a matte black versus a gloss deep black (the style I like better)
  
 Edit: speaking of which, I really dislike the brushed aluminum of the modern variants (323S). Don't know why, it looks unfinished to me, maybe because the amps are so small. The highly polished aluminum of the older ones (12S) look so much better.


----------



## vapman

I can't think of anything recent that has the same kind of high quality aluminum like the SRD-7 or 12S. I don't think my 323S looks bad by any means, I just don't think it looks like the same grade of metal, but I can't really fault Stax for that since I haven't seen _anything_ made in the last 25 years with that kind of metal seen on the 12S and such (at least according to memory) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Remember at that point in time Sovtek was making guitar pedal enclosures out of recycled tank metal. a different time for sure.


----------



## kugino

anyone know if the 407 are being discontinued? or why it's really cheap right now on PJ? just ordered one for $254 shipped to the USA...cheaper than the 307, actually...and less than half the price of the 507. hmmm....


----------



## Rayzilla

kugino said:


> anyone know if the 407 are being discontinued? or why it's really cheap right now on PJ? just ordered one for $254 shipped to the USA...cheaper than the 307, actually...and less than half the price of the 507. hmmm....




I don't know why.... but thanks to you, my wallet just sprung a small leak. THANKS a lot!!! lol

I just ordered the 407 along with the 323s. I need something to drive them and this combination should be a decent system to get me started on STAX.

Now, where can I get 507 replacement pads? I remember reading that that is the main difference between the 407 and 507. Does anyone have a pair, even a little used that they wouldn't mind selling?

Now, if you ever spot such a discount on the 009, you gotta let me know and I'll be in like Flynn.


----------



## Rayzilla

Oh, I forgot to add that the price came out to $714 delivered and I won't have to worry about customs duties and taxes biting me in the rear end. I can't wait to try them out.


----------



## bertp1

kugino said:


> anyone know if the 407 are being discontinued? or why it's really cheap right now on PJ? just ordered one for $254 shipped to the USA...cheaper than the 307, actually...and less than half the price of the 507. hmmm....


 
  
 Which shop is "PJ"?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

kugino said:


> anyone know if the 407 are being discontinued? or why it's really cheap right now on PJ? just ordered one for $254 shipped to the USA...cheaper than the 307, actually...and less than half the price of the 507. hmmm....


 
 You bas****, PJ just got my order 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## Rayzilla

bertp1 said:


> Which shop is "PJ"?


 
 That would be Price Japan.
  


ali-pacha said:


> You bas****, PJ just got my order
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I would have thought that you already have one of these. So did you just put in an order for one?
  
  
 What should I expect from the 407 with the SRM-323s compared to the HD 800 with a pretty transparent system?


----------



## Earspeakers

rayzilla said:


> I would have thought that you already have one of these. So did you just put in an order for one?


 
 I ordered one for the collection, that's a crazy good price. 
  


> What should I expect from the 407 with the SRM-323s compared to the HD 800 with a pretty transparent system?


 
  
 Worlds within worlds.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

rayzilla said:


> I would have thought that you already have one of these. So did you just put in an order for one?


 
 I've two old Lambdas, original normal bias + pro signature, but I wanted to taste the current range in a longer run. Like Earspeakers said, crazy price, I neither could resist for the collection.

 Ali


----------



## Earspeakers

I'd like a 507 also to round things out but not willing to pay $600, even though its a great price due to the exchange rate.


----------



## Rayzilla

rayzilla said:


> I don't know why.... but thanks to you, my wallet just sprung a small leak. THANKS a lot!!! lol
> 
> I just ordered the 407 along with the 323s. I need something to drive them and this combination should be a decent system to get me started on STAX.
> 
> ...


 
 So I looked at the webpage on my mobile again a little later and realized that I never did the final step to make the payment through PayPal. So I went on my computer and started a fresh new order but this time I included the wooden STAX headphone stand and the dustcover.
  
 I contacted PJ to ask if I could add the stand to my order when I thought I had already put it through. They got back to me reasonably quickly and told me that I may have to wait a week for the 323s to get there. So I guess I should get my whole order in about 8-10 days.
  
 I just received a confirmation of payment email from PJ. The wait begins.


----------



## Amarphael

rayzilla said:


> That would be Price Japan.
> 
> I would have thought that you already have one of these. So did you just put in an order for one?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've had this 407/323s and the HD800/SPL Auditor, not in the same time. Each had it's coloration and "etch" up-top, I think the HD800's was more annoying but still it was more transparent to my ears than the 407 driven by the 323s. Probably the amount of staging space and treble extention gave that impression. Staxen still sound more rhythmically fluid than any dynamic I've heard though.


----------



## kugino

haha. I'm glad I got a few of you to depart with some of your cash. that's what this site is all about! 

I've heard the 407/507 can be a tad shrill up top. I have a kgst being built for me at the moment so hopefully it'll help smooth it out. not sure there are very many dynamics/planars in the $250 range that can compete with the 407.


----------



## astrostar59

karlgerman said:


> Hi astrostar59,
> As you might remember, i was planing to test the TotalDac after my friends are ready to give it to me.
> Situation changed as they send it back to France after they finally got the Pavane. All of them realized the Pavane as best sounding DAC in the test cycle.
> 
> ...


 
 This is fascinating indeed! I wonder what Arnauld thinks about it? I can only guess as I haven't heard the TotalDAC. Distortion? It is odd, the TotalDAC has no tubes so unless the design is weak or the bandwidth of the transformers is poor? I wonder if by distortion they mean 'not realistic'? If the Pavane wins I would be surprised but delighted, as it is quite cheap in relative terms. Going back to my little Metrum Octave Mk II it is way behind my Audio Note 4.1. I can only guess the Pavane is in another league to it.
  
 Odd about the transport. I wonder if it is the fact sound via SPDIF from a transport sounds cleaner / smoother than via USB input. The Pavane uses the Amanero USB or the M2Tech USB board. Both are very good IMO. I have tried various transports up to a CEC belt drive 10K transport, and my Mac Mini with Audirvana+ in standalone beat it by around 15-20%. In Audirvana+ iTunes mode it was worse than the transp.
  
 Right now I am upgrading all the capacitors in my DAC 4.1 with Audio Note Kaisia and Elna Silmic II. It will max that design out to as far as it can go. I'll report back later on that.
  
 Good luck with your search. I think you can get the Pavane on buy / return. If it beats your expensive D-02 that would be crazy but possible.


----------



## yaluen

kugino said:


> anyone know if the 407 are being discontinued? or why it's really cheap right now on PJ? just ordered one for $254 shipped to the USA...cheaper than the 307, actually...and less than half the price of the 507. hmmm....


 
  
 If you click through to the merchant site that's actually selling them, you'll notice that everything is suspiciously discounted. A whois of the domain http://www.earphone-home.com/ reveals that the registrar is Chinese. I suggest exercising caution as it looks very much fraudulent.


----------



## paradoxper

I've never heard of PJ being fraudulent like Cattylink, for example.


----------



## yaluen

No no, not PJ themselves as they're just a middleman service, but the merchant they're sourcing the 407 from, "earphone-home.com"
  
 Follow the link at the bottom of PJ's 407 page (http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=1033&category=10 → http://www.earphone-home.com/order/item/6572.html)


----------



## Earspeakers

Ah, yeah their source is running a 50% off sale on the 407's for whatever reason. Too many in stock probably. Middle child syndrome, people probably gravitate either to the high or low end leaving the 407 alone maybe.


----------



## kugino

thanks for the heads up. I figured the purchase is protected via PayPal and my CC company. will see if they're the real deal when they arrive. I'll let people know.


----------



## yaluen

They also have the SR-009 at 80% off for 31794yen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://www.earphone-home.com/order/item/6260.html


----------



## Michgelsen

kugino said:


> (...) not sure there are very many dynamics/planars in the $250 range that can compete with the 407.


 
  
 I guess not, at that INSANE price.
  
 Yes, the 507 have a lot of highs, but for me they're even highs, which is less of a problem than a single etch. It was easier for my eyes to adapt to the highs of the 507 than to the etch of the Lambda Signature or the highs of the HE60. I think it helps that their bass is awesome, acting as a counterbalance.


----------



## kugino

yaluen said:


> They also have the SR-009 at 80% off for 31794yen
> 
> 
> 
> ...


haha. yeah. but PJ didn't have those listed...we shall see.


----------



## paradoxper

yaluen said:


> No no, not PJ themselves as they're just a middleman service, but the merchant they're sourcing the 407 from, "earphone-home.com"
> 
> You can see the link at the bottom of PJ's 407 page (http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=1033&category=10)


 
 Not sure about the implication of fraudulent then. PJ takes the risk whatever that is with the sources not the customer. 
  
 And Stax services units from PJ so it doesn't seem to affect much as far as being 'grey market.'


----------



## yaluen

Right, to be clear, I wasn't accusing PJ of being fraudulent. As I understand it, PJ simply search for the cheapest price online for the products they export and source them from whichever merchant that may be. It just so happens that in this case, their source for the 407 seems to be fraudulent. What I'm wondering is if PJ do due diligence on their sources.


----------



## paradoxper

yaluen said:


> Right, to be clear, I wasn't accusing PJ of being fraudulent. As I understand it, PJ simply search for the cheapest price online for the products they export and source them from whichever merchant that may be. It just so happens that in this case, their source for the 407 seems to be fraudulent. What I'm wondering is if PJ does due diligence on their sources.


 
 And to bait you with semantics. You say they're fraudulent yet PJ uses them as a source. So..


----------



## yaluen

You know what I mean


----------



## paradoxper

yaluen said:


> You know what I mean


 
 I do. I wouldn't personally contact earphone-home to purchase direct, but I also don't see how earphone-home is fraudulent per se if PJ is able to source Stax through them.


----------



## yaluen

Possible PJ has yet to order anything from earphone-home. Also, a telephone number for earphone-home is nowhere to be found on their site. AFAIK, one is required by Japanese law.


----------



## paradoxper

yaluen said:


> Possible PJ has yet to order anything from earphone-home. Also, a telephone number for earphone-home is nowhere to be found on their site. AFAIK, one is required by Japanese law.


 
 True. And to bring things full circle, I trust PJ - have personally dealt with them and you get what you paid for. I don't understand how the sources work in China/Japan,etc
 but I think it's not unfounded to be skeptical when we see prices too good to be true. The whole Cattylink scam Negura experienced is real curious.


----------



## yaluen

I'm sure PJ will take care of their customers if earphone-home does turn out to be a scam. About sourcing, it looks like PJ simply buy retail so they're just as susceptible to fall victim to these types of scams as any of us.
  
 Haven't heard about Cattylink, I'll have to look that up.
  
 Edit: Had a look and I wouldn't be surprised if earphone-home's MO is the same. I would urge people who have placed orders for the 407 with PJ to ask if PJ has verified the legitimacy of earphone-home. Payment for online purchases is usually made through bank transfer within Japan, so should PJ pay via bank transfer, they would have no recourse. It looks like earphone-home does take CC though, so at least request PJ pay for anything from earphone-home via CC or COD for their benefit.


----------



## kugino

yaluen said:


> I'm sure PJ will take care of their customers if earphone-home does turn out to be a scam. About sourcing, it looks like PJ simply buy retail so they're just as susceptible to fall victim to these types of scams as any of us.
> 
> Haven't heard about Cattylink, I'll have to look that up.
> 
> Edit: Had a look and I wouldn't be surprised if earphone-home's MO is the same. I would urge people who have placed orders for the 407 with PJ to ask if PJ has verified the legitimacy of earphone-home. Payment for online purchases is usually made through bank transfer within Japan, so should PJ pay via bank transfer, they would have no recourse. It looks like earphone-home does take CC though, so at least request PJ pay for anything from earphone-home via CC or COD for their benefit.


 
 i'm sure PJ is more knowledgeable about their suppliers or the sites they purchase from. and i'm sure they have their methods of obtaining the items without undue harm to their business...so, if it is indeed a shady site that cannot fulfill PJ's orders, i'm sure PJ will notify us and refund our purchases. if not, paypal certainly will...


----------



## bertp1

Got this in response from PriceJapan:
  


> we are doubt about the reliability of that seller.
> we are trying to buy some item as test base.
> 
> I think they are very suspicious.


----------



## dramakon

I've got a set of 407s on order from price Japan. Out for delivery today or on tuesday. Ordered last week. Anything I should look for when I open them? Will update


----------



## Rayzilla

dramakon said:


> I've got a set of 407s on order from price Japan. Out for delivery today or on tuesday. Ordered last week. Anything I should look for when I open them? Will update


 

 Did you get them for the same price that they are listed for now? Is this your first STAX or like many of us, the deal was too good to pass up.
  
 Personally, I never thought about being suspicious in this case because of the positive reputation of PJ. Let's hope there will be nothing to tarnish their reputation because I will be considering getting the 009 from them down the road if I have a good STAX experience here.


----------



## dramakon

rayzilla said:


> Did you get them for the same price that they are listed for now? Is this your first STAX or like many of us, the deal was too good to pass up.
> 
> Personally, I never thought about being suspicious in this case because of the positive reputation of PJ. Let's hope there will be nothing to tarnish their reputation because I will be considering getting the 009 from them down the road if I have a good STAX experience here.


 
 First Stax. Got an amp of eBay too. Got them for the listed price now 37,500. Am worried


----------



## Rayzilla

dramakon said:


> First Stax. Got an amp of eBay too. Got them for the listed price now 37,500. Am worried


 

 Which amp did you get? I ordered the SRM-323s from PJ.
  
 Uh-oh. I just noticed that PJ raised the price of the 407 back up to $390. (oh. I guess that is what you meant. First I thought you meant that you bought them for the list price of 37,500.)
  
 I hope that they will still honour the prices that some of us ordered it for yesterday. It would be the right thing for them to do.   I haven't received any email from them yet.


----------



## Earspeakers

rayzilla said:


> I hope that they will still honour the prices that some of us ordered it for yesterday. It would be the right thing for them to do.   I haven't received any email from them yet.


 
  
 If you paid for it of course. Since PJ is a redistributor with a low margin they can't very well buy it at a new cost then eat the difference to sell to you below cost. Obviously the 50% reduction would be temporary until the source sold off the extra stock. I paid right away and got confirmation from Kaneda. 
  
 The 323S is a great amp - that's a great combination for a great price. My first Stax was a 307/323S which I bought for over $1k. 
  
 Edit: I bought a 009, 007, 003, 002 (the portable and five pin IEM's), and now a 407 from PJ, he's first rate. He screwed up an order, I ordered a 212S amp for the 003 (for work), he sent a 207/212S by accident. Sold the 207 to me for a mere $100, I use it for testing new electrostatic circuits. 
  
 Not that it needs mentioning, but avoid the 207. It's perfect for testing but has a tendency to arc and isn't anything like the 307.


----------



## Rayzilla

earspeakers said:


> If you paid for it of course. Since PJ is a redistributor with a low margin they can't very well buy it at a new cost then eat the difference to sell to you below cost. Obviously the 50% reduction would be temporary until the source sold off the extra stock. I paid right away and got confirmation from Kaneda.
> 
> The 323S is a great amp - that's a great combination for a great price. My first Stax was a 307/323S which I bought for over $1k.
> 
> ...


 
 I received a confirmation from Kaneda as well last night. He was fairly quick to reply to most of my email. After putting the order through, I later went to tell my wife about my purchase. She didn't have much of a reaction to it at all. So I added in that "I didn't make the big purchase that I mentioned to her a few weeks ago yet. She didn't say anything about that either. After that, I shot another email to Kaneda asking how much more to add the EP-5 ear pads and how much more to add the SR-009 to my order. He replied and I thought long and hard about adding the 009 but in the end, I didn't because it should stay at that price for some time to come...
  
 That is my next dilemma, one headphone (009) or one headphone (probably LCD-XC closed HP) AND an amp (probably Schiit Ragnarok or Bryston BHA-1). I heard my HD 800 with the BHA-1 last week and I was quite impressed. I would like to try the Rag because it could then also drive my Dynaudio speakers but there is no where around here that I can audition it. If any place gets them, they are sold right away, so not available for testing. What would you do?
  
 Good to hear your comment on the 323s. Thanks.


----------



## Earspeakers

rayzilla said:


> That is my next dilemma, one headphone (009) or one headphone (probably LCD-XC closed HP) AND an amp (probably Schiit Ragnarok or Bryston BHA-1). I heard my HD 800 with the BHA-1 last week and I was quite impressed. I would like to try the Rag because it could then also drive my Dynaudio speakers but there is no where around here that I can audition it. If any place gets them, they are sold right away, so not available for testing. What would you do?


 
  
 I have 20+ headphones and 20+ amps, all Stax. Wrong person to ask. 
  
 Back story is I only listen to classical (am a musician) and spent years trying to get decent (accurate) reproduction of an Opera or a string quartet. Tried planars (speakers), SET's, Oris horns etc. Finally found true accuracy with (and only with) Stax. I have the collection because I love them so much, and I like variety. 
  
 Amazing how difficult it is to simply get an accurate reproduction of a violin. Massed strings gets smeared and etched across the board. While speakers do nice things none of them I heard managed to pull them off. They sacrifice tonal accuracy for placement/soundstage. 
  
 Stax do it the best, but to really get it right in addition you need diffuse field equalization.


----------



## gepardcv

earspeakers said:


> Not that it needs mentioning, but avoid the 207. It's perfect for testing but has a tendency to arc and isn't anything like the 307.



What tendency to arc are you talking about?


----------



## Earspeakers

gepardcv said:


> What tendency to arc are you talking about?


 
  
 For example I wear glasses, and frequently if I take them off with the headphone on I'll sometimes get a loud crackle from the driver. Also heard it in other circumstances, probably some six times. Otherwise I've never gotten a crackle/arc from any other headphone. I'm guessing they don't do a lot of burn in or QA on the 207.
  
 I've never heard anything like it even from the bottom end IEMs, but it might not be a fair comparison. The IEMs are so much smaller I imagine they're easier to manufacture, unlike a big Lambda driver which might have more opportunities for something to go wrong.


----------



## wink

That crackle is sometimes called the Stax fart.
  
 My Stax Alpha Pro does it a lot when I move them.


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## gepardcv

Sounds to me like you're describing the "Stax fart". It happens to all of them, with the plastic Lambda housing being more prone than, e.g., the metal 007. I've tried a couple of older Lambdas that did it way more than the 207. It's completely innocuous.


----------



## Earspeakers

Ah, the infamous fart. I've seen references and didn't know what it was exactly. 
  
 Let's check though. I have a NOS 404 I bought off some crazy dentist (had backups he stuck in his closet). The plastic housing crackles quite a bit on that one, due to it not being worn in and what not. All of my old stock headphones (most of them) don't have this, presumably from being used and worn in. It's purely the plastic, and the recent vintage Lambdas don't have it in my experience. 
  
 This is very different, it's a snap-crackle-pop, definately electronic and coming from the earpiece, not the surrounding plastic. Sounds exactly like electrical arcing. I've heard that 'stats will can that due to impurities and imperfections, it's harmless. It just fries a bit of the coating or whatnot. My guess is that Stax does the extensive burn in to literally 'burn off' these before they get to the customer, who would freak out.


----------



## bearFNF

The "fart" can be heard just by moving your jaw, like when chewing gum. It is a crinkling/popping sound.  My lambda normal bias do this a lot. The 009 do not do this. IME


----------



## Earspeakers

This morning listening to Don Giovanni. First up was one of the last Sigma Professionals ever made, high 9000's serial number. Near NOS condition from somebody in Finland that rarely used it. This was fed by a KGST and a ED-1 diffuse field equalizer. 
  
 The music was recorded before an audience who would twitter occasionally at the jokes. The vocalists walk around the stage, just as they do during the production and the recording was really well done. The hall they used was well damped so not too much of that, and best of all it's _insulated_. All the old halls have thin walls, with La Scala recordings you can hear the Vespas and auto's buzzing around the hall (when you listen on Stax at least). 
  
 On this combination the imaging is excellent, it's like a very close oval with you positioned in the prompter box, or perhaps the conductor. The KGST has a large relaxed cleared space to it that the Stax amps don't have, those generally being more immediate. It also has the drive necessary for the Sigma. However the Siggy also rolls off the top end, making it sound like a rather warm and relaxed hall on a warm day. 
  
 For the final acts I switched to a SRM-1 (mk1 Normal-Normal), ED-1 and Lambda Normal. This is a sleeper amp, it's basically as relaxed, but more 'present' than the KGST. Slightly more energetic too, the KGST is so sanguine that I often like to go somewhere else for some excitement. The presentation is quite different, now it's definitely in the prompters box. The orchestra sounds like it's 'in my head' (e.g. I'm in the group or just in back of it) and the vocalists are quite close. The stage is more compressed too, only opening up when the distant audience titters. As far as I can tell it has equivalent resolution and detail of the KGST, perhaps a touch more. 
  
 I haven't looked into the circuit of the SRM-1 but it appears quite different (layout, transistors) than the MK2.


----------



## paradoxper

Best description for the fart I've heard is PSHHWT PSHHWT. It can be disconcerting not knowing what it is at first, though.


----------



## uchihaitachi

earspeakers said:


> I have 20+ headphones and 20+ amps, all Stax. Wrong person to ask.
> 
> Back story is I only listen to classical (am a musician) and spent years trying to get decent (accurate) reproduction of an Opera or a string quartet. Tried planars (speakers), SET's, Oris horns etc. Finally found true accuracy with (and only with) Stax. I have the collection because I love them so much, and I like variety.
> 
> ...


 
 Musician as well, most headphones utterly fail to reproduce a piano accurately, Stax is also the closest I have gotten.


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## rgs9200m

Earspeakers: just wanted to say that post you made above (#5861) about Stax vs. Speakers was a great read. Very intriguing impressions and fascinating about the massed strings. Thanks.


----------



## Earspeakers

uchihaitachi said:


> Musician as well, most headphones utterly fail to reproduce a piano accurately, Stax is also the closest I have gotten.


 

 Yes! I've done time as a recording engineer as well. The piano is one of the hardest things to record, the sound comes from so many parts of a large object. I don't know of anybody who feels like they've nailed it, it's just black magic to find some less bad mic arrangement. Stax mostly just gives you what the mics are doing so is as good as it gets there.


----------



## Earspeakers

rgs9200m said:


> Earspeakers: just wanted to say that post you made above (#5861) about Stax vs. Speakers was a great read. Very intriguing impressions and fascinating about the massed strings. Thanks.


 

 Thanks. If you want details here are my thoughts
  
 Speakers 
*Planers* (Magnepans). I had 3.6's, actually was the guy who started the first online MUG (Maggies Users Group), I think it's still going on. Got to know Wendell and the Magnepan mgmt too. Anyhow it's a wonderful speaker, lots of detail, somewhat warm and smoothed over, but good accuracy and detail nonetheless. On the downside while the imaging is great, it's too big. A close miked instrument sounds like it's 6 feet tall. Working with a room is a nightmare due to back reflections (radiates out the front and the back), as is driving them. You need some big booted SS amp like Bryston. I actually was crazy enough to use them with Atmasphere's (OTL tube Circlotron) a good amount of time which worked well enough. But the difficulties in room and driving and overly large (but good) sound stage wasn't good enough. Also the tri-driver design with crossover screwed something up. Easy to see with say a cello which cross all three drivers, the upper harmonics get smeared so you lose complete accuracy. 
  
*Horns* (Oris) Designed and built my own SET's - well entire chain including RIAA preamp and turntable. Excellent detail retreival, great for everything within the horns frequency range, but once you drop to the sub it gets out of wack. Plus there is always some degree of horn shout, and head-in-a-vice. Ultimately it was the shout which drove me away, though Oris shouts the least. 
  
*Regular speakers* (various). All variations on a theme, and all more or less the same. 2 or three drivers, crossovers, this alignment, that alignment. You know I used to work with Sigfried Linkowitz as a fellow engineer at HP before he retired? Nice old guy, but to my ears no crossover can really do it. They all screw up the tonal accuracy (like the sound of a plucked or massed string) with accuracy. 
  
 '*Stats* The one thing I didn't try, but I think they'd suffer from crossover, driving and room issues as detailed above. But I probably would have liked those the best. 
  
 Headphones
*Sennheiser* I had them all except the 800. Relaxing on the ears but huge loss of detail. Never tried nor interested in their one foray into 'stats (now two). 
  
*Others* Beyer, etc. More or less the same
  
*Planars(Audeez)* These are an interesting choice, I'd guess they come in second place, but haven't heard them. Guessing they'll be somewhat like Maggies, but not interested enough to bother trying. 
  
*Stax* Technically these solve all the problems outlined above. Single driver, no room issues, no accuracy issues (due to the thin film in a strong ES field), easy to drive (one-box stereo solutions) and lots of options for taste. On the downside is imaging (alleviated with Diffuse field solutions via Sigma or ED-1, or 009 with built in 3D diffuse field imaging) and single driver non linearities (fixed via ED-1 style equalization). Music-wise they _nail_ it.


----------



## gepardcv

If I understand it correctly, the fart happens when the diaphragm touches the stators. You can reproduce it on any Stax by gently pushing the earcup into your ear. Plastic housings deform more easily, so it happens more easily on Lambdas.


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## rgs9200m

Thanks again Earspeakers. For the record, I had Apogee Stages for a long time back in the 1990s (until one of the speakers failed). I remember them fondly, especially for piano and vocals.
 You worked with Linkwitz? Wow, he's a pioneer. The Orion is a classic from what I have read (I might have heard it at a show, but I'm not sure).


----------



## rgs9200m

Just one more speaker comment: I used to have Kharma 3.2 CRMs; I had no feeling there was a crossover at all, or even that there were drivers at all (or even speakers) (and felt the same about the Apogees).
 This was the Stax equivalent of imaging and transparency and the disappearing act in the speaker world to me.


----------



## uchihaitachi

earspeakers said:


> Thanks. If you want details here are my thoughts
> 
> Speakers
> *Planers* (Magnepans). I had 3.6's, actually was the guy who started the first online MUG (Maggies Users Group), I think it's still going on. Got to know Wendell and the Magnepan mgmt too. Anyhow it's a wonderful speaker, lots of detail, somewhat warm and smoothed over, but good accuracy and detail nonetheless. On the downside while the imaging is great, it's too big. A close miked instrument sounds like it's 6 feet tall. Working with a room is a nightmare due to back reflections (radiates out the front and the back), as is driving them. You need some big booted SS amp like Bryston. I actually was crazy enough to use them with Atmasphere's (OTL tube Circlotron) a good amount of time which worked well enough. But the difficulties in room and driving and overly large (but good) sound stage wasn't good enough. Also the tri-driver design with crossover screwed something up. Easy to see with say a cello which cross all three drivers, the upper harmonics get smeared so you lose complete accuracy.
> ...


 
 You should really post this as a performer's guide for seeking fidelity. Opinions seem to divulge a lot between listeners and performers on what sounds accurate. Other musicians I have talked to tend to reach the same conclusions as yourself regarding what's the truest reproduction. I have had the same experiences as yourself. God knows the amount of equipment and money I wasted reaching Stax.
  
 If I may add a few things
  
 For regular speakers, my father owns the Focal Grande utopia EM, these are hands down the best speakers I have heard for imaging. Can reproduce orchestras better than anything I have heard, you can pinpoint exact instrument locations it's that good!
  
 'Stats speakers (father also owned the martin logan): they suffer what stats headphone users sometimes complain about, lack of visceral bass when it's needed but on a bigger scale.
  
 Had the HD800: HD650 and HD600 were the most true to real headphones I heard. The HD800 due to the treble spike makes violins tin like :S
  
 Big fan of Audeze, had the LCD2 LCD3 and LCD-X but it's just for fun and other than for mid range and bass, it's far cry from 'fidelity'. They sound similar to Maggies from my experience.
  
 Regarding Stax, that was what I felt too. Just 'Eureka!' the harmonic content seems balanced out etc.


----------



## kugino

so the 407 price is back up to US $390...and at the bottom of the page they say that they're checking the reliability of the earphone website listed previously. i'm sure once they find out that it's a sham/scam, those of us who ordered it will get our money refunded. oh well, as they say, if it sounds too good to be true...


----------



## Earspeakers

uchihaitachi said:


> You should really post this as a performer's guide for seeking fidelity. Opinions seem to divulge a lot between listeners and performers on what sounds accurate. Other musicians I have talked to tend to reach the same conclusions as yourself regarding what's the truest reproduction. I have had the same experiences as yourself. God knows the amount of equipment and money I wasted reaching Stax.


 

 Good thoughts, thanks for posting. I've had similar thoughts but wonder if it's actually a classical/Jazz or acoustic music versus amplified. Rock musicians seem to like dynamic headphones, its what they use anyhow when they're in the studio. And audience members for popular/amplified/electronic music seem to like it too. Many of them also like Stax. For me actually I haven't performed in decades (went in to engineering) but still play for myself. I mostly get my music through recordings now and go to live concerts, so have been on both sides of the stage. I'd still say that Stax supplies the best performance I've heard from both a performers and a audience members perspective. 
  
 And I wonder what really _is_ amplified music anyhow? People experience it in huge stadiums with big speaker walls usually. I sometimes wonder if much of audiophila is people trying to recapture some feeling or mood when they were younger and listened to their music. 


kugino said:


> so the 407 price is back up to US $390...and at the bottom of the page they say that they're checking the reliability of the earphone website listed previously. i'm sure once they find out that it's a sham/scam, those of us who ordered it will get our money refunded. oh well, as they say, if it sounds too good to be true...


 
  
 Hmm, well I paid and got a note from Kaneda confirming and saying he'll be shipping them out soon. I wouldn't pitch a hissy fit if it doesn't come through, but that would be that an order would get that far and not make it.


----------



## uchihaitachi

earspeakers said:


> Good thoughts, thanks for posting. I've had similar thoughts but wonder if it's actually a classical/Jazz or acoustic music versus amplified. Rock musicians seem to like dynamic headphones, its what they use anyhow when they're in the studio. And audience members for popular/amplified/electronic music seem to like it too. Many of them also like Stax. For me actually I haven't performed in decades (went in to engineering) but still play for myself. I mostly get my music through recordings now and go to live concerts, so have been on both sides of the stage. I'd still say that Stax supplies the best performance I've heard from both a performers and a audience members perspective.
> 
> And I wonder what really _is_ amplified music anyhow? People experience it in huge stadiums with big speaker walls usually. I sometimes wonder if much of audiophila is people trying to recapture some feeling or mood when they were younger and listened to their music.
> 
> Hmm, well I paid and got a note from Kaneda confirming and saying he'll be shipping them out soon. I wouldn't pitch a hissy fit if it doesn't come through, but that would be that an order would get that far and not make it.




For me I just use the piano as a point of reference and as I have recorded on it, I always use my own recordings to check realism and to me the 007 and 009 are in a different league to other headphones. I Will PM you sometime about diffuse equaliser!!!


----------



## astrostar59

theattorney said:


> I would guess that "audible distortion" is a language translation issue.
> 
> One advantage the Pavane  has over TotalDAC is that there is only one Pavane model.
> There are far too many TotalDAC variants and options for me. Whichever one I chose, I'd be forever fretting about upgrades etc.
> Of course, for some people this choice would be very attractive.


 
 I see your point. I was /thinking at some point in looking to upgrade my Audio Note DAC 4.1 kit. However so far I haven't heard anything that makes me jump. So I am upgrading pretty much all the parts count in my DAC to max it out. I feel happier with tubes in my system chain, I went all solid state before and it wasn't for me, even with R-2R.
  
 I am sure the Pavane is much better than the little Octave MK2 I have.  One of my problems is the Pavane has no volume pot. My Audio Note DAC has transformers on the output thus very low impedance so can run longer interconnects. This has allowed me to use a passive pre-amp and miss out a stage and the SQ loss of that.
  
 I think Metrum should bump up the output and add the volume pot like on their headphone amp. Most folk have one source nowadays.
  
 The TotalDAC has volume option and a good amp stage I read.
  
 Back to the review by Kalgerman's buddies, I am wondering if the input method affected the SQ? I find it odd how a CDP sounds better than a well setup Mac or PC on USB. I have bettered my CDP by at least 20% or more, and it was a 10K CEC belt drive unit. 90% of the users on computeraudiophile.com agree.
  
 It may be the guys liked Delta-Sigma better, it can come across as more exciting and 'hi-fi' IMO, but R-2R as non oversampling on RedBook sounds right to me and wins in long session with less fatigue or more realism. If the data is up sampled at the input or by the PC software, it will wreck the sound IMO. Too many variables here to know. We need more info to judge. Maybe other users can chime in?


----------



## Michgelsen

Can we cut the dac-cr*p and get back to Stax? It's unbelievable how this thread is half-filled, or half-polluted I should say, with the constant nagging about r2r/nos/filterless/whatever dacs. Feel free to start a 'suitable sources for a stax system' thread in the sources forum. The only dacs discussed here should be Stax dacs. If you don't have anything 'Stax' to add, then don't add.


----------



## Earspeakers

I'm on it!
  
 A Stax DA-80 driving a SRD-7, with a SRM-T1W as the passive volume control
  

  
  
 Serious Stax.


----------



## Michgelsen

Great, with pics as well! Next step: Stax monoblocks with a transformer box?


----------



## DougD

earspeakers said:


> I'm on it!
> 
> A Stax DA-80 driving a SRD-7, with a SRM-T1W as the passive volume control
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have an SRD-7, it came new with my SR-X Mk3 cans, and I've never made a decision on how I want to upgrade. Happily both still work fine.
  
 But given the lowly reputation/status of the mere energizers, and knowing that you have a collection of Stax gear that possibly runs second to only the Stax Museum in Japan, I am TOTALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING why you ever bothered to hook this up as you have. 
  
 Could you explain ?


----------



## Earspeakers

Because I could 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Actually there is some logic to it. I got some SRD-7's that came along for the ride with headphones, so figured I should try them out. But I didn't have an amp having ditched all my regular amps. Options seemed to be ....
  

*Get some cheap SS amp* like a class T
 Rebuttal: Why bother with a cheap amp? Maybe it would sound fine but it seemed odd to be running such high end stuff with a $50 amp
*Get a nice cheap tube amp*
 Rebuttal: Having built too many of these I didn't want to do another and didn't want to spend too much money. There are some relatively inexpensive ones on eBay but reviews seem mixed on quality. Technically having two transformers in the chain, one on tube output and one to match to headphone seemed like a poor solution
*Get an OTL amp*
 Not too many of these, I used to have an Atmasphere but didn't want to go that route again
*Get a high end (maybe class A) SS amp*
 Overkill, but technically few detractions
  
 The last seemed to be the best option since the silicon might be balanced by the transformer. Since I like Stax it's a natural combination. 
  
 Sound wise is something quite unlike the active amps. They (energizers) have a slight/more than slight hyper quality - even the low key KGST, that I'm not hearing with this combination. It's immensely powerful yet with presence. Doesn't sound like SS or tube either but something of both maybe. 
  
 I'm using adjectives that make it seem more different than it is. It's not hugely different, but it is quite different from the rest of the pantheon. I think the transformer couplers are sleepers and I'd like to find a Woo Wee too one day.


----------



## soren_brix

Even though it's a rather old post, it might still be a good read in context of the latest postings:


spritzer said:


> I've spent a lot of time comparing transformers vs. dedicated amps and the good dedicated amps always win out.  These are transformers far superior to the Stax/WEE units and much, much bigger.  Some of them even cost more for a single unit then a Blue Hawaii costs to build.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
From the WEE - new product from Woo Audio thread


----------



## vapman

dougd said:


> I have an SRD-7, it came new with my SR-X Mk3 cans, and I've never made a decision on how I want to upgrade. Happily both still work fine.
> 
> But given the lowly reputation/status of the mere energizers, and knowing that you have a collection of Stax gear that possibly runs second to only the Stax Museum in Japan, I am TOTALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING why you ever bothered to hook this up as you have.
> 
> Could you explain ?


 

 I've actually been really enjoying my SR-X MK3 / SRD-7 combo being fed by a Crown D-75A.
 Enough to the point the Woo WEE is slowly climbing its way down my priority list.
 Clean, clear uncolored amp which works very nicely with the transformer box IMO. Plus the volume dials are stepped, so channel imbalance isn't a concern.


----------



## Rayzilla

rayzilla said:


> ...
> Personally, I never thought about being suspicious in this case because of the positive reputation of PJ. Let's hope there will be nothing to tarnish their reputation because I will be considering getting the 009 from them down the road if I have a good STAX experience here.


 
  
  


rayzilla said:


> ...
> I hope that they will still honour the prices that some of us ordered it for yesterday. It would be the right thing for them to do.   I haven't received any email from them yet.


 
 So I got the bad news email from PJ. Here is what they said and are offering me:
  
_"Lowest shop of STAX SR-407 (who sells SR-407 with 20314 Yen price) turned out fraudulent.
 We could not provide SR-407 based on the price of the fraudulent shop.
 If SR-407 price is normal price (37500 Yen), it will lift total amount by US$150._
_You can cancel your order and get full refund, or you can keep your order by additonal US$100 payment ( we will be resposinble for the remaining $50 )_
_Please select one between two options;_
_1. You can cancel your order and get full refund,
 2.  you can keep your order by additonal US$100 payment to our paypal account"_
  
 So unfortunately the, if it's too good to be true... saying applies here.
  
 I am somewhat disappointed here because I was hoping that they would still honour their price. This shouldn't be the first time that they would be encountering possible fake suppliers, so they should have a system of checking them out before posting the sale price. The reason I am disappointed is that even though they offer a full refund, I will be hit with the exchange rate spread that PayPal charges when they convert from US$ back to HK$. I was already hit with and interest rate spread when I made the original payment, as they converted my HK$ to US$. And this spread will be on my FULL purchase price, which includes the amp, HP stand and HP cover.
  


earspeakers said:


> ...
> Hmm, well I paid and got a note from Kaneda confirming and saying he'll be shipping them out soon. I wouldn't pitch a hissy fit if it doesn't come through, but that would be that an order would get that far and not make it.


 
 I received the confirmation email as well but I guess it doesn't mean much. Have you received an email from Kaneda?


----------



## Earspeakers

soren_brix said:


> Even though it's a rather old post, it might still be a good read in context of the latest postings:
> 
> From the WEE - new product from Woo Audio thread
> I've spent a lot of time comparing transformers vs. dedicated amps and the good dedicated amps always win out.


 
  
 Yeah I know Birgir feels this way. For whatever reason I keep finding myself disagreeing with his assessment of SQ. For the record, Birgir is a wonderful person who has done a great service for the community, and I've personally received lots of help from him. It's not about that, but I do keep finding that his opinion on the SQ is opposite mine. For example, he thinks the 007mk1 is the best, I have one and think its, well among the worst. He has issues with the 009, I have none. He has issues with most all of the Stax amps, I find good music in all of them, he thinks transformers lose out, I think in the right context they sound great. And so forth. Maybe its our musical tastes, or ears or who knows what. 
  
 My point is form your own conclusion, don't think that Birgir, myself or anybody who has heard a lot of Stax gear has a definitive opinion. 
  


rayzilla said:


> So I got the bad news email from PJ. Here is what they said and are offering me:
> 
> _"Lowest shop of STAX SR-407 (who sells SR-407 with 20314 Yen price) turned out fraudulent._Have you received an email from Kaneda?


 
  
 Yeah same deal. Well if it was too good to be true I guess.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

earspeakers said:


> My point is form your own conclusion, don't think that Birgir, myself or anybody who has heard a lot of Stax gear has a definitive opinion.


 
  Quote of the day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I think I'm somewhere in beetween about SQ. But I definitely like the variety Stax has to offer, and I'm not looking to dynamic side of this hobby. Or almost : I'll end with some HD800 one day, for sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


earspeakers said:


> Yeah same deal. Well if it was too good to be true I guess.


 
 Yep. No exchange rate / fees problem by my side (bank transfer), the price switches to "insanely affordable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




" to "mmh, not so bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




" with this 50$ cut, so I'm continuing on this path 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## soren_brix

earspeakers said:


> Yeah I know Birgir feels this way. For whatever reason I keep finding myself disagreeing with his assessment of SQ. For the record, Birgir is a wonderful person who has done a great service for the community, and I've personally received lots of help from him. It's not about that, but I do keep finding that his opinion on the SQ is opposite mine. For example, he thinks the 007mk1 is the best, I have one and think its, well among the worst. He has issues with the 009, I have none. He has issues with most all of the Stax amps, I find good music in all of them, he thinks transformers lose out, I think in the right context they sound great. And so forth. Maybe its our musical tastes, or ears or who knows what.
> 
> My point is form your own conclusion, don't think that Birgir, myself or anybody who has heard a lot of Stax gear has a definitive opinion.


 
 The posting was not about how Spritzer feels about this.
 The point being, that Spritzer makes some valid points about using a transformer for driving stats. Facts ... not feelings. 
 As far as I know the Woo box turned out to be not so glorious when looking under the hood; still some people might choose the Woo anyways.
 Knowing what one is buying or using when listing to music will give you a far better understanding on what to look for.


----------



## uchihaitachi

earspeakers said:


> Yeah I know Birgir feels this way. For whatever reason I keep finding myself disagreeing with his assessment of SQ. For the record, Birgir is a wonderful person who has done a great service for the community, and I've personally received lots of help from him. It's not about that, but I do keep finding that his opinion on the SQ is opposite mine. For example, he thinks the 007mk1 is the best, I have one and think its, well among the worst. He has issues with the 009, I have none. He has issues with most all of the Stax amps, I find good music in all of them, he thinks transformers lose out, I think in the right context they sound great. And so forth. Maybe its our musical tastes, or ears or who knows what.
> 
> My point is form your own conclusion, don't think that Birgir, myself or anybody who has heard a lot of Stax gear has a definitive opinion.
> 
> ...


 
 Don't the 007mk1 vary a lot from pair to pair?


----------



## Arthrumus

earspeakers said:


> Yeah same deal. Well if it was too good to be true I guess.




I just got the same message. It's a bummer, but isn't that $353 price still a pretty good deal for the 407? I'm still considering paying the extra $100.


----------



## Earspeakers

soren_brix said:


> The point being, that Spritzer makes some valid points about using a transformer for driving stats.


 
  
 Got it


uchihaitachi said:


> Don't the 007mk1 vary a lot from pair to pair?


 
 Don't know, I haven't heard that. 
  


arthrumus said:


> I just got the same message. It's a bummer, but isn't that $353 price still a pretty good deal for the 407? I'm still considering paying the extra $100.


 
 All the Stax gear from Japan is a fantastic price right now due to the exchange rate. If anybody is thinking about getting a 009 from PJ I'd jump on it. This incident is unfortunate but not surprising given how his business works. I personally wouldn't let it deter me.


----------



## soren_brix

uchihaitachi said:


> Don't the 007mk1 vary a lot from pair to pair?


 
 News to me at least.
 As far as I have read - postings from various people - there seems to be a consensus that the 70xxx is a bit more refined in comparison to the SZ1's ....but that is subtle differences ... as far as my own experience, I own both and have noticed the same.
 The two are more similar than different to my ears.


----------



## yawg

> I rather wonder if much of the difference between DACs is simply the output stage (analog drivers).


 
 That is my experience exactly.
  
 My Arcam CD 23 has the famous RingDAC developed by dCS and great resolution but flabby bass because the analog output is just a chip. My Cayin DA-2 has a nice tubed linestage with two E88CC. It was already great with the original Sovtecs but with old German Siemens/Halske CCa's it truly sings.
  
 Don't know what DAC chip it has - the model number was scratched off by Cayin, apparently. My techie friend who fixes my audio gear joked that Cayin doesn't want their customers to know what cheap stuff they use in their "hi-end" gear ...


----------



## Earspeakers

soren_brix said:


> News to me at least.
> As far as I have read - postings from various people - there seems to be a consensus that the 70xxx is a bit more refined in comparison to the SZ1's ....but that is subtle differences ... as far as my own experience, I own both and have noticed the same.
> The two are more similar than different to my ears.


 

 I just have a 70xxxx (have to check, anyhow it's one of the early carbon fiber box types) and a one bought recently. The early one sounds more warm, loose and relaxed than the already warm and relaxed recent vintage. Too much so to my ears. I've been meaning to pair it with the SRM-1/MK2 as that might be a good counterbalance, as it tends to be a little shrill or something.


----------



## astrostar59

To throw something else in the mix, my 2012 007 Mk2.5s were a bit middle and muffled with flabby bass. My 2015 007As from PJ are really great, a LOT better, more like my 009s but not as fast or detailed. I heard the 007 MK1s at Geoff's a few weeks back and they sounded close to my 007As. 
  
 I think Stax have done various line tweaks in production as they go along, not telling anyone. I am not even sure the serial numbers can be trusted according to the Stax mafia. Anyway, very happy with my 007As from PJ, would recommend them, and cheaper than a typical second hand (and probably well used) 12 year old MK1s....
  
 The MK1s had a weak cable entry which I hate.


----------



## audiokid

Hi guys, has anyone any experience of driving the SR-009s with a 006ts Kimik? I'm currently using the 006ts Kimik with the 507.


----------



## astrostar59

I liked my 009s with my 717, they were easier to drive than my 007s. Only issue may be the extra detail and brightness may throw up some edge or problems upstream. Make sure the tubes are ok and biased.


----------



## audiokid

Thanks. Yes, the tubes should be ok. The 006ts Kimik is only a couple of weeks old. The 007t is just going to be too big for my home office desk, so hoping I can do the 009s justice with the smaller amp.


----------



## yawg

vapman said:


> Yeah, i know, he admitted he did something wrong that broke it though. What it was, i;m not entirely sure.


 
 I had the same problem with my big EAR monoblocs. Usually it's a bad tube with a short in the high-voltage department. This will burn the resistors in the path and the track(s) on the board. No big thing.
  
 You can put a fuse in the path to avoid that, I did and since I had only once to replace the fuse and a tube, no damage otherwise. The EARs are a fully balanced PP design (output 200 W RMS) that use four PL519 broadcast tubes that can put out 7000 V max. They were also used in older color TVs as line generators IIRC.


----------



## kugino

arthrumus said:


> I just got the same message. It's a bummer, but isn't that $353 price still a pretty good deal for the 407? I'm still considering paying the extra $100.


 
 same here. still debating whether or not i want to pay the extra $100...is it a good price at $353? probably...someone tell me. please. i need help.


----------



## astrostar59

kugino said:


> same here. still debating whether or not i want to pay the extra $100...is it a good price at $353? probably...someone tell me. please. i need help.


 
 I might not help much but, I would save for the 007A from PJ at 1000 US. It is so good. I just can't live with the 407/507 series anymore. I had Lambdas before that as well. It is the treble quality I don't like in the whole series. And the fake bass effect, it dos not convince me sorry.
  
 Yes, they are Stax and ok on some classical material. It gives a 'taste' of what Stax can do. For me the real deal starts with the 007.
  
 Also, even though they tried to get a wider soundstage on the Lambda series with the on ear cups and angled frame, the over ear bigger drivers on the 007 are in another league. trust me, you will be back selling later. Get the 007A now and your done.....
  
 Now I am ready for the avalanche of die hard Lamda / 307/407/507 users. Don't bother, I am gone, you are wasting time trying to convince me, 20 years of Lamdas. It was fun, but like an old girlfriend, err, you kinda move on....


----------



## kugino

astrostar59 said:


> I might not help much but, I would save for the 007A from PJ at 1000 US. It is so good. I just can't live with the 407/507 series anymore. I had Lambdas before that as well.
> It is the treble quality I don't like in the whole series. Also, even though they tried to get a wider soundstage with the on ear angled frame, the over ear bigger drivers on the 007 are in another league. test me, you will be back selling later. Get the 007A now and your done.....


thanks for the info. I actually already have the 007A but was looking for another pair of cheaper stax for fun. I'm having a kgst built for me by headinclouds so it should help with the top end of the 407...but it's not something I desperately want or need. I may just cancel and put that money toward an ether or something.


----------



## paradoxper

You definitely need the SR-009 for a little fun in your life.


----------



## astrostar59

kugino said:


> thanks for the info. I actually already have the 007A but was looking for another pair of cheaper stax for fun. I'm having a kgst built for me by headinclouds so it should help with the top end of the 407...but it's not something I desperately want or need. I may just cancel and put that money toward an ether or something.


 
 Ahh, I see. That is cool, maybe I went of on one? Hey, I have 2 x headinvlouds KGSShv's, one of them is pumping into my 007As right now! I designed the faceplate for Geoff on the KGST. He is the dude. You will be happy I am sure. The build quality is top notch.
  
 Yeah, if you want portable you could look at the 303 is it? PM David61, he has a set.


----------



## PATB

For fun, I highly recommend the SR-009
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It is actually priced really good right now, with the Yen on the decline.  Maybe you guys can ask Kaneda-san to give you a discount on the SR-009 instead.


----------



## David1961

astrostar59 said:


> Yeah, if you want portable you could look at the 303 is it? PM David61, he has a set.




I have an SR-003mk2 which can't be used with Stax's SRM-002 portable amp, to work with that portable amp an SR-002 is needed.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote:Originally Posted by *Earspeakers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
    
  
 A Stax DA-80 driving a SRD-7, with a SRM-T1W as the passive volume control
  
 ________________________________________________________________
 I am curious how the SRM-T1W acts as a passive volume control, since it is an active preamp.


----------



## rgs9200m

patb said:


> For fun, I highly recommend the SR-009
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Absolutely this is the way to go.


----------



## Earspeakers

rgs9200m said:


> I am curious how the SRM-T1W acts as a passive volume control, since it is an active preamp.


 
  
 No it's both. Second switch from the right, "variable" or "fixed". Some kind of oddball arrangment (checking my docs as I have original ones for this)
  


> For utilizing the volume control function of this set, set hte OUTPUT selector on the front panel to "VARIABLE", in which state no sound is output from teh earspeaker (even when the POWER switch is set to "ON").


 
  
 So when variable you get passive volume control out the back and nothing from the headphone, when fixed it's straight through (so be careful when switching, if you have speakers on they'll get full volume). 
  
 I have a second one available for trade if anybody is interested.


----------



## Earspeakers

I find myself getting angry at Stax for the first time ...
  
 Got my 717 - lovely amp. I gather it's a KGSS variant licensed by Stax. If anybody knows, what was the deal with the license? Just a comment from Birgir, did they pay Kevin to license it? Just curious. 
  
 Anyhow on the voltage select on the back they did something nasty ...
  

  
 I find this horrible little beast clamped down tight and holding down the voltage select cover, which clearly allows me to go 117 if I could get the cover off. As evidenced by the scratches I got this one off, but the bottom one is much harder. 
  
 What's the deal? Anybody know what type this is? Why would they do this? It has the voltage select, it looks like it's set up to change voltages, yet they labeled the back of this one 100V and put these awful screws on to prevent me from doing it. 
  
 I have 100-120 transformers but prefer going native.


----------



## bearFNF

earspeakers said:


> I find myself getting angry at Stax for the first time ...
> 
> Got my 717 - lovely amp. I gather it's a KGSS variant licensed by Stax. If anybody knows, what was the deal with the license? Just a comment from Birgir, did they pay Kevin to license it? Just curious.
> 
> ...


 
 It kinda looks like an inverted torx screw can't tell from the angle of the picture though.
 Like this:


 You need a socket of the right size like this:


----------



## arnaud

Quote:


earspeakers said:


> Got my 717 - lovely amp. I gather it's a KGSS variant licensed by Stax. If anybody knows, what was the deal with the license? Just a comment from Birgir, did they pay Kevin to license it? Just curious.


 
  
 This one's a bit of a chicken and egg thing. Depending on who you talk to, you'll get a very different story and I don't think it's worth pursuing discussion.
    
 Quote:


earspeakers said:


> I find this horrible little beast clamped down tight and holding down the voltage select cover, which clearly allows me to go 117 if I could get the cover off. As evidenced by the scratches I got this one off, but the bottom one is much harder.
> 
> What's the deal? Anybody know what type this is? Why would they do this? It has the voltage select, it looks like it's set up to change voltages, yet they labeled the back of this one 100V and put these awful screws on to prevent me from doing it.


 

  
 These screws are the result of grey market and distribution channels complaining to Stax about it.
  
  
 BTW, about your comment on the SR007mk1 sounding horrible, you must be mistaken in the series. As has been reported, between the mk1 and mk2, there have been at least 5 official or unofficial alternations to the design. If we're to believe recent hearsay, the latest change in the mk2 occurred in the last year and for the better (no longer "boomy" bass and slight shrill). I haven't experienced it myself but am curious. I know at least that pads may have changed. But, officially, Stax puts it on the manufacturing variabilities, such as between batches of pad foam...
  
 cheers,
 arnaud


----------



## Earspeakers

arnaud said:


> BTW, about your comment on the SR007mk1 sounding horrible, you must be mistaken in the series. As has been reported, between the mk1 and mk2, there have been at least 5 official or unofficial alternations to the design. If we're to believe recent hearsay, the latest change in the mk2 occurred in the last year and for the better (no longer "boomy" bass and slight shrill). I haven't experienced it myself but am curious. I know at least that pads may have changed. But, officially, Stax puts it on the manufacturing variabilities, such as between batches of pad foam...


 
  
 Well I didn't say it sounded _horrible_, just one of my lesser favorites 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Mines a 705XX


----------



## Rayzilla

david1961 said:


> I have an SR-003mk2 which can't be used with Stax's SRM-002 portable amp, to work with that portable amp an SR-002 is needed.


 

 Can any of the portable STAX amps run the SR-009? What is the most transportable amp that can work decently with the 009?


----------



## Earspeakers

rayzilla said:


> Can any of the portable STAX amps run the SR-009?


 

 SRM 212s
  


> What is the most transportable amp that can work decently with the 009?


 
  
 SRM 212s
  
 I wouldn't recommend it though.


----------



## David1961

rayzilla said:


> Can any of the portable STAX amps run the SR-009? What is the most transportable amp that can work decently with the 009?




If you're asking this to hopefully use the 009's for portable purposes, then I can't see the point, simply because with the 009's being open headphones, they'll let-in a lot of outside noise.
Even the SR-002's are open phones so I assume they'd have the same problem, but probably not to the same extent as the 009's.


----------



## soren_brix

earspeakers said:


> For example, he thinks the 007mk1 is the best, I have one and think its, well among the worst.


 
  
  


earspeakers said:


> Well I didn't say it sounded _horrible_, just one of my lesser favorites
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 so what are you actually saying?
  


earspeakers said:


> SRM 212s
> 
> I wouldn't recommend it though.


 
 based on what? in order for your recommandation to provide any help, I guess that would be helpful.


----------



## Rayzilla

rayzilla said:


> Can any of the portable STAX amps run the SR-009? What is the most transportable amp that can work decently with the 009?


 
  
  


david1961 said:


> If you're asking this to hopefully use the 009's for portable purposes, then I can't see the point, simply because with the 009's being open headphones, they'll let-in a lot of outside noise.
> Even the SR-002's are open phones so I assume they'd have the same problem, but probably not to the same extent as the 009's.


 

 No, I wasn't asking for portable purposes. I have the HD 800 and the RS-2, which are about as open as they get so I know how bad they would be in public places. Especially in a bustling city like Hong Kong. I was thinking more about taking them to work on weekends when no one else is around. So on the transportable side as opposed to strictly portable.


----------



## Earspeakers

soren_brix said:


> so what are you actually saying?


 
  
 I've blathered my opinion enough on this board, not sure why you're giving me a hard time. I've said multiple times ...
  

I like all the Stax amplifier and all the Stax headphones
Of those headphones, I like the 007mk1 the least
Doesn't mean I hate it, just means it's my least favorite of all the Stax stuff
Besides which, who cares what my opinion is? I said a few posts back to ignore everything I say and form your own opinion. But if you like to hear it for statistical purposes then I'll chatter about what I hear. 
  


> based on what? in order for your recommandation to provide any help, I guess that would be helpful.


 
  
 Based on owing both and trying them, the 212 _sounds good_ but is the worst of the Stax amps, and the 009 is the best of the headphones, it's champaign and spam.
  
 That's my thoughts, now you can ignore them


----------



## Rayzilla

So it is semi-official now. I kept my order with Price Japan but I upgraded the purchase from the SR-407 to the SR009. It will be paired with the SR-323s until my wallet recovers. I also added the Stax headphone stand and the dust cover, although I will be storing the 009 in my electronic dry box.
  
 Any recommendations or comments on the step-down transformer that I will need for the SRM-323s? The voltage here in Hong Kong is 220v and the 323s will be the Japanese version of 100v. I prefer to buy locally, maybe in the Mong Kok area of Hong Kong, but open to online purchase if the selection is better.


----------



## soren_brix

earspeakers said:


> I've blathered my opinion enough on this board, not sure why you're giving me a hard time. I've said multiple times ...
> 
> 
> I like all the Stax amplifier and all the Stax headphones
> ...


 
 If your opinion doesn't matter why state them? I think your opinion matters. There might be some people who have the same experience as you, and can benefit from your view on other matters when recognizing that you have similar experiences.
  
 I guess your recommandation against the 212 is more based on the fact that your impression is that it is the worst Stax amp and less to do with the fact that the requirement was the amp to be portable.


----------



## Earspeakers

rayzilla said:


> So it is semi-official now. I kept my order with Price Japan but I upgraded the purchase from the SR-407 to the SR009. It will be paired with the SR-323s until my wallet recovers. I also added the Stax headphone stand and the dust cover, although I will be storing the 009 in my electronic dry box.


 

 So he gave you a $50 credit for the 009 then? I've been kicking it around.
  


> Any recommendations or comments on the step-down transformer that I will need for the SRM-323s? The voltage here in Hong Kong is 220v and the 323s will be the Japanese version of 100v. I prefer to buy locally, maybe in the Mong Kok area of Hong Kong, but open to online purchase if the selection is better.


 
  
 For 120->100 I really like VCT, heavy duty, doesn't strain and good price. They do a variety of power converters, check if they have one you are looking for.


----------



## Earspeakers

soren_brix said:


> If your opinion doesn't matter why state them?


 
  
 I try to soft pedal it. I'd happily write volumes on what I think about Stax but sometimes people get pissed because they don't agree or whatever, which I don't want to deal with. 
  


> I guess your recommandation against the 212 is more based on the fact that your impression is that it is the worst Stax amp and less to do with the fact that the requirement was the amp to be portable.


 
  
 OK here goes ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 If I wanted portability I'd actually consider the 3S as being the smallest of the Stax tube amps (its a cute little bugger). One of the best sounding too, but rare and hard to find. Doesn't have tremendous drive though, I'd keep it to light music and the 009 probably isn't a great match drive wize (haven't tried the combo myself yet and probably won't bother as I prefer Normal headphones with Stax amps _generally_). The ideal would be a mini-KGST - Birgir has some for sale. Pretty small/portable, and would drive the 009 just fine. If that's too spendy then sure the 212s/009 would work and sound _OK_, but is compromised. But you get your portability and would get music.  Or, I'd wait for a SiC, those are looking like they can be done small. 
  
 If you want portable there will obviously be compromises. I asked Birgir once if he was interested on working on a SOTA portable Stax amp but he isn't going in that direction. Someday if I have time I'd like to try it, but time is short.


----------



## vapman

How do you define any Stax amp as portable  (with the exception of the SRD-X)?
 You'd need a hell of a battery pack to keep these juiced up!
 Really loving my SRM-323S and I have been using VCT transformers for a while. I have one in use currently (not with my Stax, but with some other 100v gear)


----------



## soren_brix

earspeakers said:


> If I wanted portability I'd actually consider the 3S as being the smallest of the Stax tube amps (its a cute little bugger). One of the best sounding too, but rare and hard to find. Doesn't have tremendous drive though, I'd keep it to light music and the 009 probably isn't a great match drive wize (haven't tried the combo myself yet and probably won't bother as I prefer Normal headphones with Stax amps _generally_). The ideal would be a mini-KGST - Birgir has some for sale. Pretty small/portable, and would drive the 009 just fine. If that's too spendy then sure the 212s/009 would work and sound _OK_, but is compromised. But you get your portability and would get music.  Or, I'd wait for a SiC, those are looking like they can be done small.
> 
> If you want portable there will obviously be compromises. I asked Birgir once if he was interested on working on a SOTA portable Stax amp but he isn't going in that direction. Someday if I have time I'd like to try it, but time is short.


 
 I guess that answer will help a bunch of people a lot more - they might not agree - but since you provide different perspectives from your point of view ;o)


----------



## Rayzilla

earspeakers said:


> So he gave you a $50 credit for the 009 then? I've been kicking it around.
> 
> 
> For 120->100 I really like VCT, heavy duty, doesn't strain and good price. They do a variety of power converters, check if they have one you are looking for.


 
 They gave me some kind of discount but it is not easy to calculate the amount because of exchange rate conversions and the fact that my first payment included the cost of the 407 and then payment of additional amounts and such. I think it should be in the neighbourhood of that amount. They emailed me early this morning and then followed up just a few hours ago; wanting an answer sooner than later it seemed. So I just figured that I had already gotten this far, I might as well go for it since my wife already gave me the green light last night. So that means no new amp for my HD 800.
  
 The VCT looks pretty heavy duty. I will see if that brand is available in my area or not. I will want it soon since my STAX system shouldn't be too far behind.
  
 BTW, I always appreciate your advice on STAX, so keep 'em coming. 


vapman said:


> How do you define any Stax amp as portable  (with the exception of the SRD-X)?
> You'd need a hell of a battery pack to keep these juiced up!
> Really loving my SRM-323S and I have been using VCT transformers for a while. I have one in use currently (not with my Stax, but with some other 100v gear)


 
 I was thinking about using the amp as a desktop amp but looking for a small one that I can take to wherever I am working away or abroad. So not to be used while I am moving around.


----------



## vapman

actually yeah Earspeakers I like to hear your opinions on things, so please don't not post them because other people have different opinions. that's the point of a discussion board 
  
 Quote:


rayzilla said:


> I was thinking about using the amp as a desktop amp but looking for a small one that I can take to wherever I am working away or abroad. So not to be used while I am moving around.


 
  
 Ah I understand now! Well, there a range of DC powered small footprint amps. I don't know how the SRM 252S is myself but what about tracking down a SRM-Xh? sounds ideal for that purpose.


----------



## rgs9200m

If it's portable enough for you, a Mjolnir KGSS-HV mini is the way to go. It's just plain superb with the 009. I can't praise it enough. There's better, but I feel this is sufficient endgame performance with a top-notch DAC or cdp. And no tubes that need care and feeding.
 OTOH, these days there are remarkable choices for a take-it-with-you situation that I would say are much more practical, such as a Chord Hugo with an Ether.
 This combo is extremely musically satisfying with echoes of Stax immediacy and even a longtime Stax owner like me (over 15 years) recommends it to Stax fans w/o hesitation.


----------



## Earspeakers

rayzilla said:


> I was thinking about using the amp as a desktop amp but looking for a small one that I can take to wherever I am working away or abroad. So not to be used while I am moving around.


 
  
 OK then the 212S is the only one I'd consider for when working away or abroad, the others being too bulky and delicate. But in that case I absolutely wouldn't be carting my 009 around, I'd get a Lambda 307 which is a fantastic headphone.
  
 For work I use a 212 and the IEM (003mk2 I think the number is). It's not great music, but not horrible, but to keep from bothering my neighbors the only Stax (including the 4070) which others won't hear. You might wonder why not go with a conventional closed back magnet headphone. I do - I use those for computer stuff (videos etc). I have a Beyer at work. Just not the same, even compared to the 003.


----------



## rgs9200m

Well, there is the Ether C available soon (closed). I never liked Beyers either, even the T1, but I love my Ether, light as a feather, even with its case included.


----------



## audiokid

audiokid said:


> Hi guys, has anyone any experience of driving the SR-009s with a 006ts Kimik? I'm currently using the 006ts Kimik with the 507.




Hi guys, does anyone have any further thoughts on this pairing? I'm considering the 009, and hoping to get some further advice. Thanks in advance!


----------



## soren_brix

audiokid said:


> Hi guys, does anyone have any further thoughts on this pairing? I'm considering the 009, and hoping to get some further advice. Thanks in advance!


 
 You might want to read this in rgrds to 006t and tubes; basically the conclusion is that different manufactores of the same tube will give you a different flavor and that the tubes used in 006t are driven at too high voltage (if this is the case in rgrds to the latest 006t model, I don't know ...) ... also the thread points to a better tube for the job 6s4a, that is being used in the KGST Earspeakers mentioned. (the KGST was 'design' to drive the 009's (if you have similar impressions from various equipment as Spritzer, you might find the KGST to be of your liking)


----------



## audiokid

soren_brix said:


> You might want to read this in rgrds to 006t and tubes; basically the conclusion is that different manufactores of the same tube will give you a different flavor and that the tubes used in 006t are driven at too high voltage (if this is the case in rgrds to the latest 006t model, I don't know ...) ... also the thread points to a better tube for the job 6s4a, that is being used in the KGST Earspeakers mentioned. (the KGST was 'design' to drive the 009's (if you have similar impressions from various equipment as Spritzer, you might find the KGST to be of your liking)



Thanks, I'll check that out.
I'm not looking to change the energiser (although may swap for a 323s if that was better), so my dilemma is:
- Keep my 507 with the 006ts Kimik (ie the 5170 system)
- Upgrade the 507 to the 009, pairing with the 006ts Kimik or the 323s. 
Does anyone have thoughts on this? Am I best sticking with the 5170 system if I'm not looking to upgrade the energiser?


----------



## rgs9200m

I never heard a Kimik, but is there any reason to believe a Kimik 006t is that much better or different from an 007t, which was only fair with the 009?


----------



## Tinkerer

Had a question about my SR-007 Mk I. I was getting some intermittent static in one channel where I knew the cord was going bad so I replaced it with my spare. The noise is still there with the DAC and everything turned off but the amp. It will be perfectly quiet with a black background but then every minute or two you'll hear a little pop or two of static. It occurs at the exact same volume in the headphones no matter where the volume of the amp itself is.
  
 Does that sound like the problem is the amp or the headphones? Neither had any problem for the last month I've been using them.


----------



## audiokid

rgs9200m said:


> I never heard a Kimik, but is there any reason to believe a Kimik 006t is that much better or different from an 007t, which was only fair with the 009?



I'm guessing not, if anything it wouldn't be as good as it's a lower spec model. So, with that in mind, in the same situation, would you stick with the 507 or upgrade to the 009?


----------



## rgs9200m

I'd still get the 009, as it's a brilliant phone, and IMHO there is no overall more truthful and lean-into headphone sound than a well-driven 009. So, I would go that path and look to upgrading your amp later. The 007t2 is decent, but the KGSShv is MUCH better (I still have my 007t2 w/upgraded tubes).
 Since the journey is half the fun, get the 009. If you like Stax, eventually you will get one, so better to get one now that they are cheap and avoid the drag of trading back and forth along the way.


----------



## Tinkerer

tinkerer said:


> Had a question about my SR-007 Mk I. I was getting some intermittent static in one channel where I knew the cord was going bad so I replaced it with my spare. The noise is still there with the DAC and everything turned off but the amp. It will be perfectly quiet with a black background but then every minute or two you'll hear a little pop or two of static. It occurs at the exact same volume in the headphones no matter where the volume of the amp itself is.
> 
> Does that sound like the problem is the amp or the headphones? Neither had any problem for the last month I've been using them.




Update on this. It quit doing that and is working perfectly again. But I would still like to know the cause.


----------



## audiokid

rgs9200m said:


> I'd still get the 009, as it's a brilliant phone, and IMHO there is no overall more truthful and lean-into headphone sound than a well-driven 009. So, I would go that path and look to upgrading your amp later. The 007t2 is decent, but the KGSShv is MUCH better (I still have my 007t2 w/upgraded tubes).
> Since the journey is half the fun, get the 009. If you like Stax, eventually you will get one, so better to get one now that they are cheap and avoid the drag of trading back and forth along the way.




Ok thanks, points duly noted!


----------



## rgs9200m

Sure and good luck!


----------



## Rayzilla

Just picked up a step-down transformer locally. Goes 220V down to 100v or 110v. Handles up to 200 watts. Does that sound sufficient?


----------



## potkettleblack




----------



## Rayzilla

Is this OK?


----------



## Pokemonn

rayzilla said:


> Is this OK?


 

 ACコンバアーター　is wrong Japanese usage. ACコンバァーター is right.
 that product is little bit shady. must be not made in Japan.


----------



## Tinkerer

rayzilla said:


> Just picked up a step-down transformer locally. Goes 220V down to 100v or 110v. Handles up to 200 watts. Does that sound sufficient?


 

 Probably. I got a 500watt on mine just to be safe. It was still only about $30.


----------



## bearFNF

pokemonn said:


> ACコンバアーター　is wrong Japanese usage. ACコンバァーター is right.
> that product is little bit shady. must be not made in Japan.


I don't see any difference in what you posted. 

Did you mean to put: ACコンバーター ?


----------



## AnakChan

bearfnf said:


> I don't see any difference in what you posted.
> 
> Did you mean to put: ACコンバーター ?


 

 It's the little ァ as opposed to the big ア. And it's actually コンバーター (konba-ta-), not コンバァーター as Pokemonn has written, nor is it コンヴァーター (konva-ta-) as on the box/print label. Mind you even in Japan _occasionally_ katakana could be written differently so don't rule it out as a misbranded Japanese product yet.


----------



## bearFNF

anakchan said:


> It's the little ァ as opposed to the big ア. And it's actually コンバーター (konba-ta-), not コンバァーター as Pokemonn has written, nor is it コンヴァーター (konva-ta-) as on the box/print label.



Ah, gotcha, it was a little hard to see on my phone. Thanks.


----------



## Michgelsen

tinkerer said:


> Update on this. It quit doing that and is working perfectly again. But I would still like to know the cause​


 
  
 How loud are these sounds? Very faint? If so, they could be dust particles in the driver, although this is very unlikely with Stax stats because they have good dust covers on the drivers. Sennheiser and Koss stats can be vulnerable to dust entering the drivers, because their dust covers are worse or even (partly) absent. Dust in the drivers sounds like faint hissing or squealing, which can definitely be of intermittent nature.
  
 If the sounds are of a normal to louder volume, then the cause is not dust. Are you familiar with the 'Stax fart' and can you rule this out as the cause? If not, the sounds you were hearing can be just that. The Stax fart sounds like a short burst of a crackling noise. It happens a lot when people are wearing the 007 (all models are susceptible, but 007 more so because of the good air seal between head and earcups) and is completely harmless. It can be frightening, because you may think that there's something wrong with your headphones, but in reality, the cause is the changing air pressure inside the earcups pressing the diaphragm against the stators. This can happen when you eat while wearing your earspeakers, or when you move your head in a sudden way, or it can be provoked by (gently) pressing the earcups against your head. Try this and see if the sound you get by doing that is the same as what you were hearing before.
 The Stax fart can be seen as a confirmation of wearing your headphones right. When you hear it, you get confirmation that you have achieved a good seal between head and earcups, which is needed for the best sound quality. Try lifting the earcups from your head a bit while listening to music, and you will hear the bass getting much worse.


----------



## astrostar59

tinkerer said:


> Update on this. It quit doing that and is working perfectly again. But I would still like to know the cause.


 
 What amp you using? That kind of sound could be failing capacitor letting DC through.


----------



## Tinkerer

michgelsen said:


> How loud are these sounds? Very faint? If so, they could be dust particles in the driver, although this is very unlikely with Stax stats because they have good dust covers on the drivers. Sennheiser and Koss stats can be vulnerable to dust entering the drivers, because their dust covers are worse or even (partly) absent. Dust in the drivers sounds like faint hissing or squealing, which can definitely be of intermittent nature.
> 
> If the sounds are of a normal to louder volume, then the cause is not dust. Are you familiar with the 'Stax fart' and can you rule this out as the cause? If not, the sounds you were hearing can be just that. The Stax fart sounds like a short burst of a crackling noise. It happens a lot when people are wearing the 007 (all models are susceptible, but 007 more so because of the good air seal between head and earcups) and is completely harmless. It can be frightening, because you may think that there's something wrong with your headphones, but in reality, the cause is the changing air pressure inside the earcups pressing the diaphragm against the stators. This can happen when you eat while wearing your earspeakers, or when you move your head in a sudden way, or it can be provoked by (gently) pressing the earcups against your head. Try this and see if the sound you get by doing that is the same as what you were hearing before.
> The Stax fart can be seen as a confirmation of wearing your headphones right. When you hear it, you get confirmation that you have achieved a good seal between head and earcups, which is needed for the best sound quality. Try lifting the earcups from your head a bit while listening to music, and you will hear the bass getting much worse.





I had a SR-207 before this, and I know the stax fart sound, and I've heard it on the SR-007 but that wasn't this. This was an actual static sound about 60db in the right channel but not a burst, just a handful of individual pops that would happen every thirty seconds to a minute. Signal into the amp had no effect on the volume, and even the amp volume itself didn't. It was always consistent. It's been working fine since that post though and I've used it several hours today.




astrostar59 said:


> What amp you using? That kind of sound could be failing capacitor letting DC through.




Just an old pro bias modded SRA-12S that was recapped over a decade ago. I got a PM from another very helpful guy that suggested it was probably the same thing. I'm looking at a 727 soon though, and if it wins out significantly in A/B before modding then I'll probably leave recapping the 12S to the next owner. Right now it's still ticking along flawlessly at least.


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

Hi, I hope this is the right place for this. At the moment I own the Lambda Nova Basic and an SRM-Xh. I would like to move up the stax ladder by buying used gear, piece by piece. By budgeting 250 pound per piece of equipment, what can I expect to get for my money, in terms of hardware and in sound improvement? Also what should I buy first, earspeakers or energizer if that matters? I would like to improve my set up yearly say, should I follow a well worn path of stax ownership, or buy when the price is a bargain, and maybe have one piece thats well ahead SQ wise of the other. Maybe you done it how i ask, were there pitfalls along the way? Any info would be gratefully recieved, or redirecting to another thread for that matter.  Thanks in advance.


----------



## soren_brix

My first Stax 006t did make some strange noise in one channel; sounded like dry leaves ratteling in the wind ....not very loud though ....
 exchanging the tubes  right to left, left to right revealed that the noise remaind in the same channel.
 The Stax seller sent me a new pair of tubes. Didn't solve the problem, and afterwards he just ship a new 006t.


----------



## Armaegis

Not looking for a definitive answer, just some impressions... I have an incoming 007. It should be brand new, so whatever the latest revision is. Long story short: it was a trade with a dealer for a used 007 but it was damaged en route. Many months have passed fighting wth the post office, and I should hopefully be receiving a brand new 007 soon.
  
 The dealer gave me the option to upgrade to a new 009 for roughly the equivalent of $1.5k USD, with a possibility to trade in more stuff to reduce the cash amount. I'm not hurting for money, but that's still a mortgage payment and then some.
  
 I have a Woo WEE (I modded one of the jacks to bypass the transformers; partially due curiosity but also done to test when the broken 007 arrived the first time to make sure it wasn't the WEE that was broken). I'm not sure I want to go down the path of dedicated stax amps, though I realize that may be a limiting factor for me.
  
 My only experience with stax so far has been with the older lamba models (I think?... they all kinda look the same to me). For reference, my primary headphones are the HE-6 driven from a speaker amp.
  
 So what do you guys think... take the plunge on the 009? Ditch the WEE for something else? I'm all ears. To be honest, after this entire ordeal with the post office I almost feel like selling it new-in-box when it finally arrives and wipe my hands of it.


----------



## rgs9200m

009 + KGSShv is the way to go. Sell everything else. And use FedEx and stay away from the US post office whatever you do.


----------



## paradoxper

All in with the 009 and a KG amp.


----------



## Armaegis

I haven't quite got enough to go all-in for an amp too. The Canadian exchange rate is brutal right now so buying from the US is pretty much out of the question.


----------



## paradoxper

Then swing a KG amp and go with the 007 and perhaps look at the 009 in the future.


----------



## astrostar59

Not sure if your 007 was broken on tryout, or after / later. I have read about problems with the WEE design damaging Stax phones.
  
 Back to the 007, I have the 007A which I bought 6 weeks ago from Price Japan, and it is great, much better than the black 007 UK version 2013 I used to have. If yours is the same as my 007A you will be happy indeed. 
  
 I would look for another amp, maybe a KGSShv or an Eddie Current 2A3. That would be a great system. 
  
 Woo amps, I have not owned one so I am going on stories from the Stax Mafia.


----------



## Michgelsen

paradoxper said:


> Then swing a KG amp and go with the 007 and perhaps look at the 009 in the future.​


 
  
 Bad advice. Always put most of the money towards the transducer.


----------



## paradoxper

michgelsen said:


> Bad advice. Always put most of the money towards the transducer.


 
 Well, he can't swing $2k on top of the 1.5k. So keeping that 1.5k and the 007 and going for a HV sounds very good. I'd take that over a 323 and 009, for example. I don't enjoy gimped Stax.


----------



## Armaegis

astrostar59 said:


> Not sure if your 007 was broken on tryout, or after / later. I have read about problems with the WEE design damaging Stax phones.


 
  
 Can you elaborate on this? I searched a bit but didn't find anything...


----------



## Rayzilla

Is Mal Valve the only amplifier that can run electrostatic headphones AND 'the other' headphones?
  
  


paradoxper said:


> Well, he can't swing $2k on top of the 1.5k. So keeping that 1.5k and the 007 and going for a HV sounds very good. I'd take that over a 323 and 009, for example. I don't enjoy gimped Stax.


 

 As mentioned in my earlier post, after getting in on the 407 (and 323s) at PJ deal that never came to fruition, I transferred that '407 down payment' amount towards a 009. It should be arriving in a few days. I am in a similar boat in that I can't swing an 009 and TOTL amp, so I stayed with the lowest priced amp that had reasonably favourable reviews to hold me over until I get the green light to upgrade the amp.
  
 Prior to going STAX, I was set to upgrade my amp for the HD 800. So with both of these goals in mind, is Mal Valve the only amplifier that can run electrostatic headphones AND 'the other' headphones? Are there any planned in the future by KG or Birgir? I really hope so. Excuse my noob questions and comments if this has been discussed before.


----------



## Tinkerer

There's some homemade ones that do both. I don't know how good they are. I've never seen a review of them. They cost about 1/3 what the Mal Valve does though. Check in the stax section of yahoo!japan.


----------



## Armaegis

armaegis said:


> I have a Woo WEE (*I modded one of the jacks to bypass the transformers*; partially due curiosity but also done to test when the broken 007 arrived the first time to make sure it wasn't the WEE that was broken). I'm not sure I want to go down the path of dedicated stax amps, though I realize that may be a limiting factor for me.


 
  
 While we're on the subject, there's no harm in the mod right? The speaker taps go directly to the headphone jack (well the two +'s come from the rotary switch, the -'s are straight from the back). As I understand it, it's basically a 1:50 step up transformer, so I can connect directly to a normal amp but I just need to really crank it high to get any appreciable volume. The other jack is wired up to the transformers as normal. I have no intention to run two stax headphones simultaneously.


----------



## wink

The problem is that the Woo wee and the Kingsound amps is that the bias circuit doesn't have the 5 megohm resistor in the circuit.
  
 This results in the eaespeaker eventually failing due to the coating on the diaphragm being destroyed.


----------



## Armaegis

wink said:


> The problem is that the Woo wee and the Kingsound amps is that the bias circuit doesn't have the 5 megohm resistor in the circuit.
> 
> This results in the eaespeaker eventually failing due to the coating on the diaphragm being destroyed.


 
  
 So... does one simply insert a resistor in series? I'm looking at some circuits on google images and it looks that way. Is the 5 Mohm value crucial or can it differ a bit?


----------



## chinsettawong

5 Mohm doesn't have to be exact. I used 20 Mohm in my early DIY amp with no problem.


----------



## NoPants

just make sure it's rated for the proper voltage, shouldn't matter too much. If you're mucking around in there you might as well swap out the entire bias supply while you're at it
  
 the regulated stuff is pretty nice


----------



## Armaegis

Hmm, I think the only ones I've got on hand at the moment are 1/8W 1Mohm... good enough?
  
 I didn't want to get *too* involved with this project, especially considering I don't even have the stupid headphones yet...
  
 What kind of bias circuits have people been building? I feel like if I'm going to the trouble to build a whole regulated supply, I might as well be building an entire amp.


----------



## astrostar59

wink said:


> The problem is that the Woo wee and the Kingsound amps is that the bias circuit doesn't have the 5 megohm resistor in the circuit.
> 
> This results in the eaespeaker eventually failing due to the coating on the diaphragm being destroyed.


 
 That's what i rad over at the other place. PM Spritzer for more info on that.


----------



## Michgelsen

rayzilla said:


> Are there any planned in the future by KG or Birgir? I really hope so. Excuse my noob questions and comments if this has been discussed before.


 
  
*Extremely* unlikely. There really is no such thing as amplifiers that can power both types of headphones. Amps that appear to do so, have internal transformers for the electrostatic output. This would be the same as using a speaker amp with a Stax or Wee transformer box, but few people do so because - long story short - the dedicated electrostatic amps are better.


----------



## preproman

armaegis said:


> Not looking for a definitive answer, just some impressions... I have an incoming 007. It should be brand new, so whatever the latest revision is. Long story short: it was a trade with a dealer for a used 007 but it was damaged en route. Many months have passed fighting wth the post office, and I should hopefully be receiving a brand new 007 soon.
> 
> The dealer gave me the option to upgrade to a new 009 for roughly the equivalent of $1.5k USD, with a possibility to trade in more stuff to reduce the cash amount. I'm not hurting for money, but that's still a mortgage payment and then some.
> 
> ...


 

 I've had the 007A and an older black pair of 007 mk2.  I now have a 2015 production 007 mk2 (Black) that I like better than any other mk2s I've had.  So the newer ones does sound better IMO.
  
 I have a (Headinclouds built) KGST I can sell you for a really good price.


----------



## Rayzilla

tinkerer said:


> There's some homemade ones that do both. I don't know how good they are. I've never seen a review of them. They cost about 1/3 what the Mal Valve does though. Check in the stax section of yahoo!japan.


 
 I'll check on that but I am not that familiar with how the Yahoo!japan website operates. I guess I will look into that registration process too. Thanks.
  


michgelsen said:


> *Extremely* unlikely. There really is no such thing as amplifiers that can power both types of headphones. Amps that appear to do so, have internal transformers for the electrostatic output. This would be the same as using a speaker amp with a Stax or Wee transformer box, but few people do so because - long story short - the dedicated electrostatic amps are better.


 
 That's unfortunate. Prior to the 407 non-deal, I was quite close to pulling the trigger on the Ragnarok or the BHA-1 for the HD 800. First choice was the Rag but I had to buy it undemoed, so I passed. I did get to test the BHA-1 with my HD 800 and I really liked what I heard but wanted to wait until I could try the Rag first (because it can run my speakers too). Then the false deal on the 407 came up and I jumped at it without hesitating too much. Once that far into the deal, it was easier to pull the trigger on the switch to the 009.
  
 I don't know if I would be at this stage if not for the false 407 offer. I hope I have little regrets. I am not expecting it to be much better than my HD 800, or may not even surpass it since I will be limiting its potential due to the 323s. So my expectations are not that high, so I shouldn't be disappointed.


----------



## Michgelsen

rayzilla said:


> I am not expecting it to be much better than my HD 800, or may not even surpass it since I will be limiting its potential due to the 323s. So my expectations are not that high, so I shouldn't be disappointed.


 
  
 Don't let head-fi get into your head too much, specifically the widespread illusion that whatever amp you have now isn't big enough. Enjoy what you have. The superb transducer of the SR-009 has a much larger effect on the total sound quality than the amp, and the 323 is a very capable amp already. If you are disappointed, it will be because the SR-009 doesn't suit you, not because your amp can't drive it, because it can. If you want to squeeze the last bit out of your headphones, then yes, buy an expensive non-Stax amp. But will your enjoyment of the music be that much higher? I doubt it.
 While I haven't heard the SR-009 myself, I am confident it will surpass your HD800 out of even the cheapest Stax amp. In my opinion even the SR-202 and SR-207 do.


----------



## paradoxper

Michgelsen,
  
 I think it would be more conductive if you first spent time with the 009 and perhaps some associated amps before speaking on its behalf.
 We would all love to hear your thoughts on the 009 and Stax amps pairings. Without hearing the 009 or even some KG designed amplifiers I feel
 it's not very productive or helpful.
  
 I sincerely hope you and all my peers don't find my post offensive in any way.
  
 Really very kind regards,
  
 Cory


----------



## Armaegis

preproman said:


> I've had the 007A and an older black pair of 007 mk2.  I now have a 2015 production 007 mk2 (Black) that I like better than any other mk2s I've had.  So the newer ones does sound better IMO.
> 
> I have a (Headinclouds built) KGST I can sell you for a really good price.


 
  
  
 Hrmm... maybe? But I kinda doubt I have enough funds for that...
  
 I'm not well read on electrostatic amps, and I'm a little befuddled over the seemingly endless variants of KGSS, KGSS-A, KGSS-DX, KGST, KGSSHV, all of the above with or without mods and/or various upgrades and/or clones.


----------



## Tinkerer

armaegis said:


> I'm not well read on electrostatic amps, and I'm a little befuddled over the seemingly endless variants of KGSS, KGSS-A, KGSS-DX, KGST, KGSSHV, all of the above with or without mods and/or various upgrades and/or clones.


 
  
 To add my own question to this. The SRM-717 is basically a KGSS with a slightly more anemic power supply right? And the SRM-727 is basically an SRM-717 with some higher quality components and the feedback removed (that can be added back with a simple mod)?


----------



## David1961

I owned the SR-007mk1 and SRM-007t for 11 years, but now have the 009's and BHSE.
I've also heard my 009's with two Stax amps, SRM-007t + 717, and although I thought the 717 sounded the better of the two Stax amps, it still couldn't compete with the BHSE.
So I would never get another Stax amp, unless maybe they were to come out with a new version of the SRM-T2.

P.S. I've heard my 009's driven by a KGSSHV, and that also made those Earspeaker's sound much better than the two Stax amps.


----------



## AnakChan

Years back when I first got into Stax I borrowed my friend's SRM-007tA, walked into Fujiya and camped out there for a few hours comparing the 007tA to the 727A and the 323S with a pair of SR-009's. I walked out of the shop buying the SR-009 & SRM-727A. As my friend was out for a few weeks, I hung onto his 007tA for an extended period of time and managed to compare the two - whilst the 007tA had a decent depth with vocals, it was simply slow compared to the 727A for pop/rock. So I lived with my 727A for about 1.5 years before upgrading to the Electra.
  
 Back in late June, a few folks of us here in Tokyo had a Stax meet where one of our friends had just received his BHSE and the other his KGST. We also had that trusty old 007tA join the meet (just to be fair). All 3rd party amps were ahead of the 007tA from the perspective of dynamics & speed. Each of the 3rd party amp had their own tastes and I think without a doubt the BHSE took the crown for the day. The KGST was likeable but to my surprise it didn't win me as easily as I had expected considering all the talk about KG amps. To -MY- years, having the Electra next to the KGST, the Electra had a strong midrange focus whilst the KGST almost felt the opposite of a shy midrange.
  
 I may play around with my 1st & 2nd stage tubes of my Electra to see if I can tone down the midrange a tad and I think the KGST can be further "fine tuned" with some tube rolling.
  
 Meanwhile with regards to @Michgelsen's comment, I have @Currawong's HD800 with my Zana Deux side-by-side my SR-009 & Electra at this particular moment. I won't really say the SR-009 is an easy landslide win over the HD800. Despite my preference of the SR-009. the HD800 is still somewhat sublime.


----------



## Michgelsen

paradoxper said:


> Michgelsen,
> 
> I think it would be more conductive if you first spent time with the 009 and perhaps some associated amps before speaking on its behalf.
> We would all love to hear your thoughts on the 009 and Stax amps pairings. Without hearing the 009 or even some KG designed amplifiers I feel
> ...


 
  
 No problem, and no offense taken. You are right. However, for newcomers into the Stax world, it can seem as if the only way to go is all-in with multi-thousand dollar amps. Sometimes I feel I have to emphasize that this is not the case, and that it is possible to get tremendous enjoyment with budget amps/systems. Often, when people looking to start a Stax journey come here, the discussion soon escalates into the same thing, that is: 'buy a KGSSHV'. That's not very helpful either, and can be discouraging.


----------



## vapman

All I've heard are the SRM-1, SRM-323S and SRD-7 but between those alone there is so much variety in sound signatures. To limit it to one amp is crazy.


----------



## paradoxper

michgelsen said:


> No problem, and no offense taken. You are right. However, for newcomers into the Stax world, it can seem as if the only way to go is all-in with multi-thousand dollar amps. Sometimes I feel I have to emphasize that this is not the case, and that it is possible to get tremendous enjoyment with budget amps/systems. Often, when people looking to start a Stax journey come here, the discussion soon escalates into the same thing, that is: 'buy a KGSSHV'. That's not very helpful either, and can be discouraging.


 
 My rebuttal would be, this is the Summit. Barring that, really - Armaegis is coming from HE-6 off taps, which is really quite ******* good. 
 The KGST or a HV can be had for $2k - not far off from a 727. It's not like we're all ranting about how good the $6k BHSE is comparatively.
  
 And more importantly as has been hashed before this isn't 2012 where the HV, for example was priced at $3-5k, IIRC. Times change the Stax stuff
 is ok from a performance perspective but today, it's a poor value. IMO.


----------



## Earspeakers

michgelsen said:


> However, for newcomers into the Stax world, it can seem as if the only way to go is all-in with multi-thousand dollar amps. Sometimes I feel I have to emphasize that this is not the case, and that it is possible to get tremendous enjoyment with budget amps/systems. Often, when people looking to start a Stax journey come here, the discussion soon escalates into the same thing, that is: 'buy a KGSSHV'. That's not very helpful either, and can be discouraging.


 

 Couldn't agree more, I don't like how much bashing the Stax amps get, and much people modify them to 'improve' the _obviously_ bad design. Sometimes hard to find a stock Stax unit that some guy hasn't 'improved'. 
  
 OK, Stax goes for an unregulated power supply. Is that a bad thing? Why? A regulated supply presents an extremely high impedance, effectively removing the power supply from the circuit. Is that always good? What about a circlotron design, such as the one Kevin just revealed. This is SOTA and the very latest in Stax amplifier design and not for the inexperienced, but this design has the power supply _as a direct part of the output circuit_. Clearly there's no reason to say that a high impedance PS is the only way to make an amplifier. 
  
 Sonically what I hear is that an unregulated supply gives a nice looseness and warmth to the music. Stax are 'hyper-reality', and a Stax on a 717 is super-hyper reality. A Lambda Signature on a KGSS is 'super-hyper-trans' reality. I swear I'm hearing the microphone and recording chain as much as the music. Get my drift? I think a case could be made that total accuracy isn't always what you want. 
  
 And so to taste ... I like variety so have the various Stax amps and headphones in my collection, along with the Mafia lineup. They're all good, but not all the time in my book. 
  
 2 cents -


----------



## Tinkerer

What about the 727 specifically? Worth the feedback mod?


----------



## PATB

Rayzilla, you are almost there.  I have the HD 800 (and $$$ balanced tube amp, with NOS Ken Rads, Tungsol 5687s, Cardas Clear XLR,  etc.) and by the time you make it sing to approach the SR-009, you would have spent a lot of money.  The KGSS-something (around $2K) plus SR-009 ($2600 at PJ) plus a source of your choice (I use a $299 TEAC UD-301, with Amazon rebate) will be a much cheaper proposition.  I acquired most of my dynamic gear 10 years ago.  If I were to build an endgame setup right now, I will head straight to the SR-009/KG Amp and forget head-fi.  Wash the dishes, get an extra job, take care of the kids, whatever it takes, to get a decent amp now.  Much cheaper in the long run.
  
 My 1 dollar on the topic


----------



## rgs9200m

The SR009 is extremely amp-dependent. It can sound like it's screaming at you or has missing bass with the wrong amp (or even the wrong source). You will think the phone has some malfunction with the wrong chain driving it. I would have to agree with what Cory said a couple of hours ago here:
 "Without hearing the 009 or even some KG designed amplifiers I feel
 it's not very productive or helpful."


----------



## rgs9200m

michgelsen said:


> No problem, and no offense taken. You are right. However, for newcomers into the Stax world, it can seem as if the only way to go is all-in with multi-thousand dollar amps. Sometimes I feel I have to emphasize that this is not the case, and that it is possible to get tremendous enjoyment with budget amps/systems. Often, when people looking to start a Stax journey come here, the discussion soon escalates into the same thing, that is: 'buy a KGSSHV'. That's not very helpful either, and can be discouraging.


 
 Why would you think you could drive a multi-thousand dollar state of the art phone that rests on 40 or 50 years of research and development with a cheap amp? An amp is very complex combination of art and technology, and two or three thousand for such an amp is totally appropriate. If it's out of your budget, that's a different issue. And dynamics/orthos have come a long way and you get really fine sound with an Ether or something else, but there is still something that sets Stax apart, especially the 009. Whether the higher cost is worth it is a philosophical question that has no objective answer. You must decide that in your own personal value system.


----------



## Armaegis

chinsettawong said:


> 5 Mohm doesn't have to be exact. I used 20 Mohm in my early DIY amp with no problem.


 
  
  


armaegis said:


> Hmm, I think the only ones I've got on hand at the moment are 1/8W 1Mohm... good enough?


 
  
 Poked around in my box of supplies, all I've got are some 1Mohm resistors. Is that high enough? or is this one of those "the higher the better" kind of things?
  
 My local shops don't have anything higher than 1M


----------



## b0bb

armaegis said:


> Poked around in my box of supplies, all I've got are some 1Mohm resistors. Is that high enough? or is this one of those "the higher the better" kind of things?
> 
> My local shops don't have anything higher than 1M


 
  
 When dealing with high voltage circuits keep an eye on the margin of safety. The resistor should be rated at least 700V and 1/2W, this takes into account line surges and transients.
  
 The resistor should come from a known source with known specs as the margin for error is less with HV circuits
  
 If you have space in your box, the Caddock MG721 5M will do the job, not cheap but they are among the best.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm//161532736132


----------



## b0bb

rgs9200m said:


> The SR009 is extremely amp-dependent. It can sound like it's screaming at you or has missing bass with the wrong amp (or even the wrong source). You will think the phone has some malfunction with the wrong chain driving it.


 
 Agreed, this goes to the 009s reputation of being ruthless in revealing the flaws in the upstream chain, especially the DAC.
 Same with the HD800 except it can be quite rude about the whole thing.
  
  
 Once the flaws are addressed the two are more similar than different.


----------



## Armaegis

b0bb said:


> When dealing with high voltage circuits keep an eye on the margin of safety. The resistor should be rated at least 700V and 1/2W, this takes into account line surges and transients.
> 
> The resistor should come from a known source with known specs as the margin for error is less with HV circuits
> 
> ...


 
  
 Seems decent, but argh I'd pay more for shipping than the actual components...


----------



## b0bb

armaegis said:


> Seems decent, but argh I'd pay more for shipping than the actual components...


 

 It is a decent cost even if you have to pay $30 in shipping.
  
 Mouser (available in Canada on special order) sells these, click to find out on a similar MG721 (...if you dare 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Caddock/MG721-500K-1/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu61qfTUdNhG%2fWFB3%252b%252b97U4B94cTNPUNtNjbvxQqwY%2fWQ%3d%3d


----------



## chinsettawong

armaegis said:


> Poked around in my box of supplies, all I've got are some 1Mohm resistors. Is that high enough? or is this one of those "the higher the better" kind of things?
> 
> My local shops don't have anything higher than 1M




The whole purpose of having the resistor here is for limiting the current going through. In case of accident, the resistor can save your life. 

If you have a few 1M resisters, why don't you series them together to get the value closer to 5M? Yes, the resistor should be rated for the working voltage though. 

Wachara C.


----------



## Armaegis

I guess I just want to know how much to limit current by to reach "safe" (whatever that may be) levels. I suppose since the WEE doesn't even have anything, that even 1M is better than nothing. BUT... the ones I have are only rated for 1/8W. D'oh, if I need to withstand 700V then I'm at almost half a watt there. I could string maybe 4 of them in a row... hmm...ugly and crowded but it could work


----------



## Rayzilla

michgelsen said:


> ... However, for newcomers into the Stax world, it can seem as if the only way to go is all-in with multi-thousand dollar amps. Sometimes I feel I have to emphasize that this is not the case, and that it is possible to get tremendous enjoyment with budget amps/systems. Often, when people looking to start a Stax journey come here, the discussion soon escalates into the same thing, that is: 'buy a KGSSHV'. That's not very helpful either, and can be discouraging.


 
 I understand this position because it reflects my situation right now. I want to get into the world of STAX but unfortunately my budget is limited to about $3,500. After my experience with the HD 800 and seeing what it can do with low and mid level amps, I would like to go in that direction again with STAX. After trying many other high end HP after I had the HD 800 for a little while, I confirmed to myself that I really enjoy a lot of detail, a lot of treble and sound stage. I find that these are the most important aspects that I require before I would even go any further. I found that I did not like HPs like the HE1000, LCD 2 and some other high end HPs because they lacked one, two or all three of these key elements.
  
 With this experience, I would like to start with the 009 and work my way up with the amps.
  


vapman said:


> All I've heard are the SRM-1, SRM-323S and SRD-7 but between those alone there is so much variety in sound signatures. To limit it to one amp is crazy.


 
 I think I want to try adding one of these earspeaker adaptors too so that I can use them with various amps that I have for my HD 800. Which one is recommended or best bang for the buck to use with the 009?
  


paradoxper said:


> My rebuttal would be, this is the Summit. Barring that, really - Armaegis is coming from HE-6 off taps, which is really quite ******* good.
> The KGST or a HV can be had for $2k - not far off from a 727. It's not like we're all ranting about how good the $6k BHSE is comparatively.
> 
> And more importantly as has been hashed before this isn't 2012 where the HV, for example was priced at $3-5k, IIRC. Times change the Stax stuff
> is ok from a performance perspective but today, it's a poor value. IMO.


 
 Cory, thanks for your input too. Now having heard the HD 800 with some nice amps like the EC BA and Bryston BHA-1, I have an idea of the difference one could expect between low and high end amplifiers on TOTL HPs. I will keep this in mind when I get the 323s and dream about the KG amps and BHSE. I have seen some nice deals on KGSSHV amps. I really wish I could get one of them now but I will just have to enjoy the journey starting with the 323s for now. If only your amp was 220v and shipping wasn't going to be a ton of bucks, I would like to consider your amp that you mentioned. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And thanks as always for your advice.
  


earspeakers said:


> Couldn't agree more, I don't like how much bashing the Stax amps get, and much people modify them to 'improve' the _obviously_ bad design. Sometimes hard to find a stock Stax unit that some guy hasn't 'improved'.
> 
> .... And so to taste ... I like variety so have the various Stax amps and headphones in my collection, along with the Mafia lineup. They're all good, but not all the time in my book.
> 
> 2 cents -


 
 I like a lot of variety too, which is one of the reasons I am even considering going the STAX route because I am very content with the HD 800 as it is. I think it does everything so well and I haven't been fair to it in terms of the amps that I have been pairing with it. I was about to pair it with something nice but STAX has nixed that plan. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I see myself adding some mid level STAX HPs to my 'collection' just for the variety too. Against my wife's wishes, I like to collect things too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


patb said:


> Rayzilla, you are almost there.  I have the HD 800 (and $$$ balanced tube amp, with NOS Ken Rads, Tungsol 5687s, Cardas Clear XLR,  etc.) and by the time you make it sing to approach the SR-009, you would have spent a lot of money.  The KGSS-something (around $2K) plus SR-009 ($2600 at PJ) plus a source of your choice (I use a $299 TEAC UD-301, with Amazon rebate) will be a much cheaper proposition.  I acquired most of my dynamic gear 10 years ago.  If I were to build an endgame setup right now, I will head straight to the SR-009/KG Amp and forget head-fi.  Wash the dishes, get an extra job, take care of the kids, whatever it takes, to get a decent amp now.  Much cheaper in the long run.
> 
> My 1 dollar on the topic


 
 PATB, I couldn't say it any better. Going straight to the 009 this time around, just not with the KG stuff yet. Slowly but surely, I will get there. Thanks for the inspirational words. Now I really can't wait for the 009 and 323s to get here. It's in transit through Guangzhou before coming to Hong Kong. I was hoping that it would come directly to Hong Kong since we have so many ports here. Should be here soon and I will let you know when it does. Thanks!


----------



## Pokemonn

Wow! Mr.Katz choose Stax SR007 as #1! must read and watch video!
  
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-biting-bullet-bob-katz


----------



## Moonhead

Yeah just saw that to, all his Big Sound reviews are interesting as they are blind testing. 
I for one like 007 way more than 009 and somewhat agree with him, but couldn't afford keeping Stax, 
So I'm at HD800 again, could be worse


----------



## Earspeakers

007 doesn't beat the 009 in my book - well I'd not rank them but just say they do things differently. Otherwise I completely agree with him on equalization, philosophically theres no reason not to equalize, and if it improves the frequency response then where's the problem? The trick is just getting the right eq. 
  
 Quote from the video 
 "OK guys, if you like the (009), then you must be deaf"
  
 lol ... OK


----------



## uchihaitachi

It makes sense that he would prefer the 007 over the 009. He is a mastering engineer after all, the SR009 is the HD800 of electrostats in my experience. 007 sounds tonally very true to life with a bit of EQ.
  
 What I find funny in the video is that, tyll has quite extensive write ups where he worships the SR009, and is frankly quite harsh on the SR007. But he is there in agreement with everything mr katz is saying...


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Positive 'murican style 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ali


----------



## greggf

I agree with, "What I find funny in the video is that, tyll has quite extensive write ups where he worships the SR009, and is frankly quite harsh on the SR007. But he is there in agreement with everything mr katz is saying..."
  
 Hmm.


----------



## n3rdling

Going by his rankings it's clear Katz prefers a darker sounding HP.  I agree with much of what he says, especially regarding EQ, but his comments on the SR-009 really don't make sense to me.  He briefly said something about it sounding "bright and thin" but then lauds the Ether, which is brighter and thinner sounding.  I have a feeling he's parroting spritzer's early comments on the SR-009, especially after hearing his comments on the KGSSHV and 007 spritzer mod.  It's hard to imagine a professional recording engineer who has all those HPs in front of him and thinks the 009 is tonally off.  I know LFF here does remastering work and holds the frequency response of the SR-009 in high regard, and I'm in agreement with him - it's one of the best there is in this regard.  The Smyth guys and every measurement I've ever seen are in agreement as well.  Good video though.


----------



## uchihaitachi

n3rdling said:


> Going by his rankings it's clear Katz prefers a darker sounding HP.  I agree with much of what he says, especially regarding EQ, but his comments on the SR-009 really don't make sense to me.  He briefly said something about it sounding "bright and thin" but then lauds the Ether, which is brighter and thinner sounding.  I have a feeling he's parroting spritzer's early comments on the SR-009, especially after hearing his comments on the KGSSHV and 007 spritzer mod.  It's hard to imagine a professional recording engineer who has all those HPs in front of him and thinks the 009 is tonally off.  I know LFF here does remastering work and holds the frequency response of the SR-009 in high regard, and I'm in agreement with him - it's one of the best there is in this regard.  The Smyth guys and every measurement I've ever seen are in agreement as well.  Good video though.


 
 Wasn't the test blind?


----------



## Sorrodje

uchihaitachi said:


> Wasn't the test blind?


 
  
 Not for headphones. Bilnd test is for DAC or AMP only. 
  
 Definitely +1 @n3rdling about Bob Katz tastes . Good vid and good work though


----------



## paradoxper

n3rdling said:


> Going by his rankings it's clear Katz prefers a darker sounding HP.  I agree with much of what he says, especially regarding EQ, but his comments on the SR-009 really don't make sense to me.  He briefly said something about it sounding "bright and thin" but then lauds the Ether, which is brighter and thinner sounding.  I have a feeling he's parroting spritzer's early comments on the SR-009, especially after hearing his comments on the KGSSHV and 007 spritzer mod.  It's hard to imagine a professional recording engineer who has all those HPs in front of him and thinks the 009 is tonally off.  I know LFF here does remastering work and holds the frequency response of the SR-009 in high regard, and I'm in agreement with him - it's one of the best there is in this regard.  The Smyth guys and every measurement I've ever seen are in agreement as well.  Good video though.


 
 Agreed that he clearly has a preference for a darker signature. I'm a little curious though about the source used and perhaps the possibility of unit variations.


----------



## Earspeakers

Another +1 to nerdling! I thought too it seemed like was parroting Spritzer. I also wondered about the pairing with the KGSS special reviewers edition. My KGSSHV is almost done but I have a 717 which is based on the design. I wouldn't it's bright, but it's ... a bit too much reality? The 009 is a bit like that too sometimes. Anyhow maybe the pairing wasn't the best, but he claims to have spectrum analyzer ears. 
  
 Edit: from the wall of Fame
  


> 009
> Simply put, this is the world's best headphone.
> 
> Read more at http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame-full-size-open#SEMMy3XvIJRrCkBO.99


----------



## rgs9200m

uchihaitachi said:


> What I find funny in the video is that, tyll has quite extensive write ups where he worships the SR009, and is frankly quite harsh on the SR007. But he is there in agreement with everything mr katz is saying...


 
 I'd be curious to read any of these comments from Tyll. Any link would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


----------



## uchihaitachi

rgs9200m said:


> I'd be curious to read any of these comments from Tyll. Any link would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


 
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-stax-sr-007#56CCMRPFoxjozrxK.97
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-stax-sr-009#dCtGHeHW1Y347MgQ.97


----------



## rgs9200m

Thanks *uchihaitachi*!!
 It's funny, but Tyll's comments on the 007 and 009 mirror my own impressions closely. (I had the same 007 version he mentions for several years, but only with a Stax amp, though.)
 I also recommend anyone browsing here read Tyll's Stax comments linked above.


----------



## Earspeakers

Here's part two
  
Big Sound 2015 Bob Katz EQing Headphones with the Harman Target Response

 I'd question what the Harmon target curve is the gold standard. Why no diffuse field theory? Why not use the Neumann KU 100 to test the eq?


----------



## jgazal

Then why not Smyth Research Realiser equalization that accounts the room, headphone and user idiosyncrasies? Automatically.


----------



## bmichels

As I wrote else where, at CanJan London last week, I have been able to listen for the first time to BHSE+Stax009 and.... WHAOOOWWW !

This was for me the " best sound of the show" and may be the only combo that will justify me buying a complete new system Amp + headphone 

I already have an EddyCurrent 445 tube amp + 3 TOL Headphones (TH900/Ed5/lcd-X) and I find that my EC445 lack musicality and warm because it is too analytical 

but... the strange thing is that the BHSE+009 seems to be even more precise while... being able to also provide musicability !?? Is it possible ? Am I under the " new toy syndrome"  ?


----------



## rgs9200m

One thing I note is that he is using a power-regenerator. I tried one on my Stax system a long time ago and it made the SR007 go from laid back to bright and fatiguing. Heaven knows what it would do the the SR009. It had a similar affect on dynamics at the time. I never went back to a regenerator again and just use a passive Hydra power conditioner.


----------



## mulveling

Nope, that's a combination only the 009 with high level amplification (BHSE qualifies, of course) can pull off convincingly. And it wasn't new toy syndrome for me either; it lasts. You should sell off some dynamic gear 



bmichels said:


> As I wrote else where, at CanJan London last week, I have been able to listen for the first time to BHSE+Stax009 and.... WHAOOOWWW !
> 
> This was for me the " best sound of the show" and may be the only combo that will justify me buying a complete new system Amp + headphone
> 
> ...


----------



## kazcou

I find this on Taobao
http://world.taobao.com/item/44186651831.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.Ktb2wD#detail
  
 inside component look good :  RK50, Jensen Vcap, Dale resistor


----------



## audiokid

Bit of an update for those interested. I have been enjoying more hours on the latest Stax 5170 system - the 507 Earspeakers with the 006ts Kimik Energiser. 
  
 Not sure what has happened, but I think I have experienced them 'coming on song'. It's an absolutely astounding system tonight. I was enquiring earlier about upgrading the 507 to 009, but I'm going to stay with this system for a while, as it's only a few weeks old and it just keeps getting better. I have owned Audeze LCD-X, Grado throughout the range, HD800, and Stax in the past – 507 with a 323s, and also the 009 / 007tii Kimik system for a few weeks on a long term demo. Wasn't sure, so I didn't stay with them, and kept the 507 323s for a while. 
  
 Anyway back to the 5170 system and the way it's sounding tonight, it's the probably the best I have heard to date (except the 009/007tii, but I think it would be a close contest!)
  
 I'm playing lossless files on the iMac, via two DACs - the Chord Hugo, and the mighty but little Halide DAC HD, one of my all time faves. The Hugo probably has the edge though. 
  
 Glad to be back with a desktop headphone system, namely Stax!


----------



## labrat




----------



## astrostar59

earspeakers said:


> Another +1 to nerdling! I thought too it seemed like was parroting Spritzer. I also wondered about the pairing with the KGSS special reviewers edition. My KGSSHV is almost done but I have a 717 which is based on the design. I wouldn't it's bright, but it's ... a bit too much reality? The 009 is a bit like that too sometimes. Anyhow maybe the pairing wasn't the best, but he claims to have spectrum analyzer ears.
> 
> Edit: from the wall of Fame


 
 I read from Spritzer the KGSS is a bit behind a good KGSShv. It is supposed to be a warm sounding amp, bit like the 717. I can however confirm the 717 is well behind the KGSShv, that amp really kicks in the bass and has more dynamics. It is also smoother and has a cleaner treble. Going back to the 007s, I have heard the MK1s and have a recent 007A which is better than my previous 007 2012 MK2.5 Black version, and my 009s kill all those phones. I am sorry, it is miles ahead on all fronts including bass depth and detail / slam and treble detail. midrange realism. I don't agree the 009 is bright or harsh, or has a 'rough' top end needing taming (Spritzer quote). I don't find any of that in it at all. My DAC is an Audio Note R-2R tubed unit, which has great extension. Spritzers DAC is an MSB Analogue with (I think) a Quad USB input and separate power base. No idea if that is relevant, but I disagree on the 009 summary. To me the 007 is weaker in these aspects compared to the 009s:
  
 1. Soundstage width
 2. Bass output (yes it has good bass but it is slow and overblown around 80-120Hz)
 3. Has a thickness to the lower midrange and sounds a bit boxy, as though the supporting frames are resonating
 4. Is recessed or laid back, from a distance, veiled, dark, asleep (which can be suppressed by high energy dance music for example, but compounded by rock or acoustic music, i.e. loss of energy and ambiance)
 5. Treble extension, strangely the very upper treble is ok, it is the middle treble that seems to drop to -3db or more in output.
 6. Can be quite forgiving a specially on some bright DS DACs, can sound samey or boring as well.
  
 To fully experience the 009s it needs a great amp even though it is easier to drive, it's microscopic detail and depth reveals weaknesses upstream. Would you listen to 50K speakers on a 1K amp or DAC? A great DAC is required IMO, or fatigue and a cold / technical presentation will result.
  
 The best sound I have ever heard was at David61 with his K-01, BHSE and 009s. My system of Audio Note DAC, KGSShv and 009s is very close but has a different flavour. I can live with either.
  
 Back to the 007s, it is still a great headphone, is great value IMO and can cover some warts in a front end. It unfortunately is power hungry so presents another problem, and ultimately has limits. To get beyond those, you need the 009s IMO.


----------



## gepardcv

I wish people would stop comparing the 007 and 009 side-by-side. The 007 will always lose. Almost no one does this comparison volume-matched. From one amp, the less-sensitive 007 runs quieter, which always sounds worse. Even if done with two amps (or a rare one with dual volume controls), brighter sounds more impressive in a brief session. At the very least, give your brain a few minutes to adjust before comparing the same tracks. Better yet, give each headphone a week.


----------



## rgs9200m

For me, the 009 is great because I don't hear the bass (or the upper highs for that matter) as a separate entity at all. Each musical object just has its own high and low component, and those highs and lows have their own character. In other phones,
 the bass is fine and tight and tuneful but is not as attached to the musical components generating them as the 009 does. It's more of a separate bass foundation underlying the music in other phones. 
  
 Sometimes multiple instruments on the 009 (like a drum or a bass guitar) each have their own type of bass and I can hear each one with its own bass character simultaneously. This is a real trip.
 That is why I like the 009 bass better than even the HE1000 bass.
  
 I don't think many speakers achieve this either (perhaps Kharmas can, or Quads). Only the SR009 to my ears can do this, and they can do this even with a moderate-priced KGSS-HV amp. 
 (I even heard this with my Stax 007t2 amp, but it was not at all as controlled or sweet in the highs as the KG or as well integrated or deep in the bass as the fine KG.)
  
 And this is all solid state using an EMM dac driving the KGSShv(mini).
 And just to add here, there is no fatiguing brightness. I don't feel it is bright at all, just neutral and natural (and I hate brightness when I hear it). I sold off my R10s (bass light) because they were bright in vocals.


----------



## Earspeakers

From what I could see (or at least what was reported) the main thing was frequency response, like his ears are a spectrum analyzer. No mention of other factors which might or might not have had a role in his review. 
  
 The main thing for me is probably the transient speed which gives micro detail. Microphones have small diaphragms and low mass and are typically placed close to the musicians - closer than an audience member. So you'd expect that all that detail is getting recorded. Yet I've not heard a system to date that could really extract it except Stax. A really large ensemble, such as in the Damnation of Faust/Berlioz has always been muddied, but most the Stax headphones pull everything out (the 007 is one of the least in this respect). The strings don't get smeared, the mens chorus is clear and so on. 
  
 My point is here is the problem with reviews - I design spectrum analyzers, I don't want to listen like I'm one, but since he's a recording engineer I guess he thinks that way and reviewed that way. Something to take into account.


----------



## preproman

I own both at the moment.  I think people should hear a 2015 production of the 007 mk2 (Black).  They do sound different and to me better than the 007A and a older 007 mk2 I owned before.


----------



## Pokemonn

Hello, I need your advices.
 I have 4 stax amps. I'm currently going to sell off them 3 of 4.
 I notice tube stax amps kill resolution and airyness. so I will sell tubes 007 and 006.
 but i can't decide which SS amp should I sell off between 727A and 323S.
 Should I sell 727??


----------



## NoPants

keep the 727 and add feedback


----------



## Pokemonn

T


nopants said:


> keep the 727 and add feedback


 

 Thank you NoPants for your advice! I will try mod too! Thanks!


----------



## Rayzilla

The wait will come to an end soon. Received a message from home that two big boxes have been delivered. On my way home now and will need to do some important errands before I get to test the system out.


----------



## Rayzilla

My new toys arrived!


A little dent. 


The SRM-323s and headphone accessories.


----------



## Rayzilla

The STAX HPS-2 headphone stand and the STAX CPC-1 dust cover.


SRM-323S and accessories.


SR-009 box.


----------



## pedalhead




----------



## Rayzilla

The unboxing in action...






ght/400[/IMG]


----------



## Rayzilla

At the bottom of the HP stand. A nice thought.


The final stand... I mean shot.


----------



## Earspeakers

^ Yeah it's very Japanese. Packaging is as important as the item!


----------



## Pokemonn

@Rayzilla any impression on SR009?


----------



## Rayzilla

earspeakers said:


> ^ Yeah it's very Japanese. Packaging is as important as the item!


 
 It did put a smile on my face after I read it.
  


pokemonn said:


> @Rayzilla any impression on SR009?


 
 My very early impressions:
 1) DETAIL: I have a preference for as much detail as possible. I think this WILL be as good as it gets. Easily more than the HE1000. The HD 800 is still pretty close to this but I suspect that when I upgrade the amp, whenever that may be, I will be very happy in this area.
  
 2) BASS: I like the bass to be tight and punchy. I think the 323S (now that I have the box, I realize that the s is capitalized) is not giving me that kind of bass. Right now it is a little more bloated than the bass coming out of my HD 800. The quantity of bass on the 009, even through the 323S is a little more than the HD 800.
  
 3) Treble: I have a preference towards more treble than the average Head-fier, I think. I have no problems with the HD 800 treble, in fact I haven't tried any headphone that has better treble than the HD 800, in my opinion. The treble on the 009 is very smooth, in my opinion. It is there for sure and it is pretty sweet already, even with the 323S. To me, both HD 800 and SR-009 are pretty even with a slight edge to HD 800 but I think I might be alone on this one because of my personal preference in this area.
  
 4) Comfort: I have a pretty small head based on the complaints by many Head-fiers that a variety of HPs are too small but to me I often need to go almost to the smallest setting. With the 009, I am not quite at the smallest setting but getting there. The headband is quite comfortable so far but not quite a comfortable as the HD 800. It has a little more clamping force than the HD 800 so the HD 800 will be more comfortable for long listening sessions. The pads on these are leather so they feel a little on the warm side but I think this is because I am spoiled by the pads on the HD 800. Nothing beats the HD 800 on comfort... NOTHING!
  
 5) Cable: I like this flat cable. It is very flexible. I like the pin connectors.
  
 No doubt these are keepers. I know that I am just scratching the surface on what these earspeakers (I need to get used to this) can do. Looking forward to the long journey. 
  
 Feel free to ask any questions.


----------



## Armaegis

armaegis said:


> I have a Woo WEE (I modded one of the jacks to bypass the transformers; ...


 
  
 I mentioned this earlier, but I'd just like to get some confirmation from the kind folks here on whether this is safe to do.
  
 I've modded the right jack on my WEE so it bypasses the transformers (the left jack is normal though). I've got extra wires to connect the negatives from the speaker inputs to the L- and R- of the stax jack.
  
 The L+ and R+ are connected to the switch, so essentially I've run two extra wires from the "Stax" position to the L+ and R+. When the knob is on "speaker", only the speakers play. When the knob is on "Stax" then my input goes both to the transformers and directly to the right jack.
  
 So the question I'm asking is... sending signal to the transformers and directly out to one jack simultaneously is ok right? (obviously I'm not plugging in two headphones simultaneously)
 I feel like it should all be fine, but with expensive gear on the line and dealing with one broken headphone already, I'm doubting myself.


----------



## n3rdling

Why not just leave the extra L+ and R+ heatshrinked and disconnected?


----------



## Armaegis

I'm not sure I understand...?
  
 I wanted the ability to try both with and without transformers, but I also wanted the switch to disengage both jacks when I switch to speakers.


----------



## Pokemonn

Hello!
 I can't get info about how to mod SRM727...
 Please someone let me know how to or info links?


----------



## kazcou

I don't know if that can help


----------



## blackads

kazcou said:


> I don't know if that can help




The photos of the circuit boards in that thread show you the relevant resistors, but note that if you work carefully you dont have to replace the existing resistors as they are the correct values, just desolder the ends closest to the board edge, lift gently and solder a wire or a cut off resistor leg to the lifted end of the resistor and the other end to the board edge. Makes the mod easily reversible.


----------



## bertp1

I might be able to get a used SRS-2020 system for about $200, worth it?


----------



## Jones Bob

If in good shape, a no brainier. Buy it,


----------



## richard51

i had pay that for the same system and its better than many more expansive one


----------



## Rayzilla

My gosh, how can anyone say that the bass is lacking on the 009? I think one time long ago I may have been a minor bass head. These headphones coming out of only the 323S has more than enough bass in my opinion. I know that the amount of bass is a subjective matter and that it is different for everyone but I am almost finding that there is a little more than I even want. Now I suspect that I may be feeling this way because the 323S is not cleaning up the bass and leaving it a little too muddy(?) for my tastes. I guess I will have to deal with this for some time before I can upgrade the amp.   Who knows when a deal on a KGSS-variant of any kind will pop up here in Hong Kong. It could be a long wait so I may as well not think about it. That was my original plan anyway.


----------



## mulveling

rayzilla said:


> My gosh, how can anyone say that the bass is lacking on the 009? I think one time long ago I may have been a minor bass head. These headphones coming out of only the 323S has more than enough bass in my opinion. I know that the amount of bass is a subjective matter and that it is different for everyone but I am almost finding that there is a little more than I even want. Now I suspect that I may be feeling this way because the 323S is not cleaning up the bass and leaving it a little too muddy(?) for my tastes. I guess I will have to deal with this for some time before I can upgrade the amp.   Who knows when a deal on a KGSS-variant of any kind will pop up here in Hong Kong. It could be a long wait so I may as well not think about it. That was my original plan anyway.


 
 Any KGSS variant will be a nice upgrade, but if possible then wait for a full-size KGSShv; it will blow your mind. I remember hearing a 007 for the first time years ago with a Headamp KGSS and being _completely_ underwhelmed. The HV was a game-changer.


----------



## Jones Bob

Taobao
  
http://world.taobao.com/item/44186651831.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.Ktb2wD#detail


----------



## NoPants

not the best choice for the 009s

and the 009s are lacking in bass, just need to compare with the 007 side by side but it's just a preference thing


----------



## dripf

I've noticed a quiet hum coming from my 323S that I don't recall having heard before. Sound output is unaffected. It is powered from a 240-100 V 100 W rated toroidal transformer.

Should I be concerned?


----------



## Michgelsen

Through the headphones, or coming from the device itself?
  
 Could be simple, harmless transformer buzzing if it's coming from the device itself.
  
 If it's a faint hum through the headphones, then it's most likely a grounding problem. To check whether this is the case, try touching the case with your fingers while wearing the headphones and see if the level of hum changes. You are grouding the case a bit this way. If the volume of the hum changes by doing that, it's clear that you have a grounding problem. The solution is to ground the case via the screw terminal on the back, making sure that this is the only connection to ground in your whole system. You should ground your system in one place only, by either connecting a wire from the mentioned screw terminal on your amp to a real ground (if difficult to find, try water or heating pipes, but this may not be sufficient), or for example via another device with a grounded cord/plug/outlet, or alternatively via a coax cable connection if you have a tuner in your system. This ground is then shared by your whole system via the audio interconnect cables, or possibly also via the power strip with grounded outlets that is itself not connected to a grounded outlet.
  
 I hope this helps.


----------



## Rayzilla

jones bob said:


> Taobao
> 
> http://world.taobao.com/item/44186651831.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.Ktb2wD#detail




I wonder if they have a demo room and whether you can buy direct instead of via direct delivery. It shouldn't be too far from here.


----------



## Jones Bob

I think the seller is in Beijing. Pretty far away from HK. 

On another site, he details the construction. He did a bang up job building this amp. Filling it with Teflon coupling capacitors and an expensive Alps RK50 volume potentiometer.

Also check the similar sales at the bottom of the Taobao page. A couple of DIY KGST and KGSSHV builds and an original HeadAmp KGSE Blue Hawaii. Lots to look at there.


----------



## Rayzilla

When I was looking at this link, I was on my phone and it said Shenzhen. One of my students, I made a career change to teaching a few years ago, has just read the webpage for me and he said that the vendor is in Shenzhen and Google Translate states the same. I will try to find out some more about this.
  
 I noticed the similar sales at the bottom of the page. I thought they were all from the same supplier but it appears not to be the case.


----------



## NoPants

It's a one-off builder, he has posted pictures of his work on other sites if you're interested. It's a Megatron amplifier, bit of overkill for the 009s
  
 You would probably be fine with a KGST for your headphones, maybe get someone to build you the new version with the cascode CCS


----------



## dripf

michgelsen said:


> Through the headphones, or coming from the device itself?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Hi Michgelsen,

The hum is coming from the unit while the sound output is completely clean. I just want to make sure the 323S transformer is not delaminating or something. Do Stax amps quietly hum or are they typically silent?


----------



## Tinkerer

The transformer in my SRA-12S hums a little, but you have to put your ear right up near the vent to hear it. I don't think it affects performance.


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

vgoghs earfrmsc said:


> Hi, I hope this is the right place for this. At the moment I own the Lambda Nova Basic and an SRM-Xh. I would like to move up the stax ladder by buying used gear, piece by piece. By budgeting 350 pound per piece of equipment and selling old , what can I expect to get for my money, in terms of hardware and in sound improvement? Also what should I buy first, earspeakers or energizer if that matters? I would like to improve my set up yearly say, should I follow a well worn path of stax ownership, or buy when the price is a bargain, and maybe have one piece thats well ahead SQ wise of the other. Maybe you done it how i ask, were there pitfalls along the way? Any info would be gratefully recieved, or redirecting to another thread for that matter.  Thanks in advance.


 

 bump


----------



## Michgelsen

dripf said:


> Hi Michgelsen,
> 
> The hum is coming from the unit while the sound output is completely clean. I just want to make sure the 323S transformer is not delaminating or something. Do Stax amps quietly hum or are they typically silent?​


 
  
 My 717 is silent, but the transformer of the T1 I had before also buzzed a little. It could very well be that a segment of the transformer has lost its glue contact, or in other words: yes, a segment has likely delaminated. Is this a problem? Not really, I think. Obviously Stax amps cannot be built to the same high standards as some of the beautiful DIY amps around here, so transformer quality is likely not top notch, but good enough.


----------



## NoPants

vgoghs earfrmsc said:


> bump


 
 lamda signature then 323S


----------



## loligagger

Figured I should share the amp I've been building for the past months. Excuse the phone camera quality.


----------



## NoPants

nice job, what peek screws are you using?


----------



## loligagger

nopants said:


> nice job, what peek screws are you using?


 
  
 Thanks. The peek screws are M3/15mm socket head ones, here on solidspot.


----------



## Jones Bob

loligagger said:


> Figured I should share the amp I've been building for the past months. Excuse the phone camera quality.




Nice build!


----------



## Rayzilla

loligagger said:


> Figured I should share the amp I've been building for the past months. Excuse the phone camera quality.


 

 Are all of you guys that are building these electrostatic amps very experienced at this? At my school, one of the science teachers does an after school activity where they solder circuit boards. Can I give a go at one of the more simpler amps, or do you need a lot of experience to be playing around with these?
  
 On a side note, the 009 are good for my health. I can see that I will be eating less junk food while working away with them on because I keep 'farting'. And it is because of the snacks but also not because of the snacks. lol
  
 I am really enjoying them now and will stop thinking about the KGSSHV until the timing becomes more realistic.


----------



## NoPants

any of the amplifiers can be built if you know how to solder and you use the proper tools for the important stuff. simplest one I can think of is the octave? maybe the original kgst design as well. 

someone built the t2 as their first amplifier but it's not recommended without assistance. if you don't know how to solder I recommend you get someone to hold your hand because working with hv isn't trivial

not sure about what other conceptions you might have but don't expect to save money by building these


----------



## kugino

nopants said:


> any of the amplifiers can be built if you know how to solder and you use the proper tools for the important stuff. simplest one I can think of is the octave? maybe the original kgst design as well.
> 
> someone built the t2 as their first amplifier but it's not recommended without assistance. if you don't know how to solder I recommend you get someone to hold your hand because working with hv isn't trivial
> 
> not sure about what other conceptions you might have but don't expect to save money by building these


 
 yep, like nopants says, if you have some soldering skills, can follow directions, and know how to use a MM, you should be able to build most of the DIY stax amps. i was going to build one myself, but decided to commission someone to build mine as 1) i don't have enough time to build one at the moment and 2) i wanted the casing to look nice. casework is probably the most difficult part of the build, especially if you want it to look "professional" and neat. 
  
 and to reiterate what nopants says, DIY in this case does not mean inexpensive. these amps are pricey, whether you build it yourself or have someone build it for you.


----------



## Michgelsen

vgoghs earfrmsc said:


> bump


 
  
  
 If you go around shopping for different (vintage) Lambdas, remember that these steps will be mostly 'sidegrades' instead of upgrades. Upgrades would be stepping up to the 007 or 009.
 For amps, there is a clearer upgrade path from small to medium to bigger Stax amps, and finally to biggest DIY monsters. If you do decide to go try different Lambdas, I would strongly suggest that you try them with one of the Stax tube amps somewhere along the way.


----------



## Earspeakers

Any consensus on Stax break-in?
  
 I find myself liking my used units better than the new ones. Smoother, refined and more integrated. Could easily be my imagining as those are conveniently the terms I'd use to describe an older, broken in unit. However I happen to have an anomaly, a NOS/NIB 404 Sig. Now I'm very familiar with the 404 as its one of my favorite, being a near perfect match for chamber music which is a large part of my diet. I have a 404LE and 404Sig, both used and well broken in. 
  
 This 404 NOS however sounds somewhat rough compared to the other two. It also has a lot of "Stax farting" (plastic frame noises). But without doing a blind A/B I think I can say it does sound younger than the other two, which if true lends credence to the theory that Stax do break in.


----------



## Earspeakers

loligagger said:


> Figured I should share the amp I've been building for the past months. Excuse the phone camera quality.


 
  
 Nice, looks like the one I'm building (we probably got the chassis from the same source?) You might be aware there's some theory that a Delrin volume shaft extension is preferred over metal, due to the heats involved. I'm going metal at first, possibly Delrin if it proves an issue.


----------



## astrostar59

karlgerman said:


> Hi astrostar59,
> As you might remember, i was planing to test the TotalDac after my friends are ready to give it to me.
> Situation changed as they send it back to France after they finally got the Pavane. All of them realized the Pavane as best sounding DAC in the test cycle.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Karlgerman
 Do you know which DACs your friends had in the house? I see you said the Pavane and the TotalDAC but any Esoteric or DS DACs? I find it interesting how the Pavane and TotalDAC are different, both are R-2R. Did they run them as Non Oversampling 44.1? The key to get the best out of Redbook I have found is feed the R-2R DAC with pure 44.1 bit perfect from the transport or PC software. *Let the DAC do the digital processing only. I use Audirvana+ in standalone and it kills my transport (CEC belt drive CDP).*
  
 Let me know if you know!


----------



## yawg

dripf said:


> michgelsen said:
> 
> 
> > Through the headphones, or coming from the device itself?
> ...


  

 This seems like mechanical hum to me. I had some, too from the transformer in my Cayin DA-2 DAC. Just removed the mounting screws of the tranny and wrapped it in bubble foil. No more hum.
  
 Both my Stax amps (SRM-3 and SRM-T1S) are totally quiet.


----------



## karlgerman

Hi astrostar59,
  
 Latest news they told me  - PAVANE  is best on their system.
 As i know no HIGHRES data is involved so it should be all 44,1 redbook.
 .At the beginning of the hearing sessions a CD transport was best sounding but after checking cable stuff, Computer was even or better.
  
 Don`t know which software is used by them but for me, owning almost all software versions for a MAC and testing for some time,
 add-on software for Itunes or stand alone is not that important any more.(except for switching a dac automatically or modify sound with a implemented EQ.)
  
 As you know i use a D-02 which is on paper a little bit better to the DAC inside the K-01.
 K-01(i had also) to D-02 is no difference in sound to my ears, i just don´t need a transport any more. But that´s a personal preference of mine.
  
 Tested Dac´s for example where Totaldac (standard version), a modded Stello Signature, Wavedream Rockna DAC, Metrum Octave and Pavane.
 Totaldac had some distortion problem vs. the Pavane. Rockna some problems with USB connection.
  
 Next will be a Metrum Musette, a kind of low level Pavane.
 They don´t asked for my Esoteric by now and as i was not invited to a hearing session i´m also happy with that.
 The system they use is in fact different to my equipment which is all electrostatic stuff.


----------



## preproman

karlgerman said:


> Hi astrostar59,
> 
> Latest news they told me  - PAVANE  is best on their system.
> As i know no HIGHRES data is involved so it should be all 44,1 redbook.
> ...


 
  
 Was that the TotalDac D1-Dual?  It would be nice if you could discribe "some distortion problem".   Sounds like it could be related to "That" particular Dac.


----------



## karlgerman

No, i think it was a D1-single Dac -- the entry level of totaldac series.
 My friend said that the Pavane sounded clearer vs the Totaldac????
 All i can say right now.
 I hope they will get a higher level Totaldac also.
 Only a Dac with a volume option is suitable to my system.
  
 It is just a exciting experiment to see them testing best part´s for a new Hifi system and Money is not an issue.
 But for my taste some selections will be different so i will not overrate what they decide.


----------



## loligagger

earspeakers said:


> Nice, looks like the one I'm building (we probably got the chassis from the same source?) You might be aware there's some theory that a Delrin volume shaft extension is preferred over metal, due to the heats involved. I'm going metal at first, possibly Delrin if it proves an issue.


 
 Probably, I got the chassis from georgep (who's been nothing but helpful with my build).
  
 Yea, I kept the delrin rod just in case. But the stainless steel doesn't bend at either extreme of the RK50's rotation.


----------



## astrostar59

karlgerman said:


> No, i think it was a D1-single Dac -- the entry level of totaldac series.
> My friend said that the Pavane sounded clearer vs the Totaldac????
> All i can say right now.
> I hope they will get a higher level Totaldac also.
> ...


 

 This is really interesting. I think we should have an R-2R thread for talks about non oversampling DACs. I will start one later today with some photos of my DIY Audio Note DAC 4.1.
  
 Karl, I think when you get chance you should hear an R-2R in your system as a home demo over say 3 days+. The sound of a non oversampling DAC (bit perfect ladder DAC) can be quite a shock. They sound less 'in your face' and less 'hi-fi'. In a demo in a show room you may like a DS DAC better for the 'wow factor' and over detailed or forced presentation. I couldn't be relaxed about DS. It always sounded  manufactured and never fooled me to realise the music or emotion. I never felt in a concert or sat in front of a musician. Is was like a well recorded copy to me, it is hard to describe. The hidden magic of an R-2R is the closeness to the source, as though IMO the electronics have vanished and you hear the performance as it would be with no effects or emphasis, EQ or forced treble energy.
  
 The truth is I find I play louder and listen longer since I went R-2R, so that must mean it fits my own emotional connection with the music.
  
 My theory behind all the digital era we have all gone through is the obsession of manufacturers with detail retrieval and 'fixing' the flaws in RedBook. I watched a seminar by a guy who actually worked on the DS chips in the 90s to 2010. He said they NEVER listened with their ears! Only looked at wave analysers and testing equipment. Of course they 'saw' stepped wave forms in RedBook, and measured high frequency reflections in the upper band. Thus they began engineering these out, by adding heavy handed filters and incredibly, chips that guessed the wave form gaps called 'apodizing'. I firmly believe this is where everyone went wrong. The connection with the Redbook data was lost, it was compromised, altered, changed, up sampled and filtered.
  
 So IMO we have come full circle, and R-2R is having a revival. It is all good IMO, and the more manufacturers who design audiophile level R-2R DACs (which are more expensive by far to build the DS) the better. The current crop using multi resistors to convert data to analogue is good as it allows the conversion of higher sampled music i.e. beyond 44.1.
  
 Regardless I am very happy with my RedBook files through an R-2R DAC. Feed it a great USB/SPDIF signal and you are done.
  
 BTW my DAC is an Audio Note 4.1 but is a kit version which I have upgraded with higher spec parts. Audio Note Kits has just released a new DAC 5.1 with shunt regulated power supply and separate PS for the output boards and digital board. It is an amazing piece of kit and is very affordable.
  
 Of course talk about an alternative to DS will rock many boats and the investment over the years of many audiophiles. For the record, the best DS DAC I have heard so far is the K-01. I could live with that. But I do prefer my R-2R.
  
 Karl, your love of Panel speakers, I get that, they will be fast and delicate, very sensitive  and 3D, not unlike the 009s in fact.


----------



## preproman

http://www.head-fi.org/t/777597/vintage-current-r2r-dac-owners-discussion-insight-and-review-thread


----------



## ahnafakeef

Hello everyone.
  
 Could someone please provide me with a comparison between the SR-007 and the SR-009 (preferably when paired with an SRM-323S)?
  
 What would I be missing out on by going with the SR-007 instead of the SR-009?
  
 Thank you.


----------



## NoPants

treble


----------



## ahnafakeef

nopants said:


> treble


 
 Thanks for the prompt response.
  
 I appreciate your brevity, but a little more info would help. For example, how much?
  
 And what else is different about the two headphones? I'm guessing there's something else besides treble that justifies the almost double price tag of the SR-009?


----------



## rgs9200m

nopants said:


> treble


 
 LOL.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Also, an extension to my question - what DAC is recommended for a SR-009 + SRM-323S setup?


----------



## rgs9200m

EMM DAC2X.


----------



## ahnafakeef

rgs9200m said:


> EMM DAC2X.


 
 I was thinking something less pricey. Maybe in the range the SRM-323S is?


----------



## rgs9200m

Chord Hugo. Nothing less.


----------



## ahnafakeef

rgs9200m said:


> Chord Hugo. Nothing less.


 
 You say nothing less. But I'd like some lesser recommendations please.
 -------------------------------------
 What about the Schiit Gungnir (either the standard or the multi bit version)? Does it synergize well with SR-009s?


----------



## wink

Dacmagic


----------



## Armaegis

Finished... at first glance you can't even tell I did anything... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  
 - added 15M ohm resistors in line with the bias pins of both jacks
 - right jack is disconnected from the transformers (although original wires/config were retained and capped with heatshrink)
    - two extra wires to connect the negative binding posts directly to the corresponding negative pins
    - two extra wires from the switch at the "STAX" setting going to the corresponding positive pins
  
 Some close-ups: http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/1007684/woo-wee-mod/
 (but ugh, the flash makes my soldering look awful... I'm better than that, I swear!)


----------



## Tinkerer

Nice to see I wasn't the only one doing some soldering tonight.
  
 I got my SRM-727A in the mail today, and it really did not sound good with the 007, like at all compared to the 12S. So I took a couple of hours and did the feedback mod and it's much much better. I'm just glad that it's so simple to do.
  
 Speaking of the 12S though, it started crackling again same channel. I was able to determine those couple of pops I was hearing before are on the output board for the right channel. I reflowed the solder on both the output boards just in case it was a bad joint. No dice. Something in there is obviously giving out. But while I was looking at them, I realized the main transistors had been replaced with more modern 2SC3148 and lifted offboard with custom cut heat sinks. So unlike a regular 12S, it looks like I should be able to source any parts I need.
  
 I should probably get it all fixed up. I don't think anybody would pay much for something that's not working perfectly even if all it needs is a $10 part.


----------



## astrostar59

ahnafakeef said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> Could someone please provide me with a comparison between the SR-007 and the SR-009 (preferably when paired with an SRM-323S)?
> 
> ...


 

 Detail, soundstage width, dynamics, higher quality sound basically. The advantage of the 009 with that amp is it is easier to drive so dynamics are more acceptable. The disadvantage is the 009s will reveal failings in your DAC and the amp itself i.e. the 007 can mask those. But you get a sluggish and masked sound with the 007s unless you power it with a powerful amp such as the KGSShv.
  
 My view, get the 009s and then later review your other gear and the 323. If you go 007s, it may not work out IMO with that amp.


----------



## ahnafakeef

astrostar59 said:


> Detail, soundstage width, dynamics, higher quality sound basically. The advantage of the 009 with that amp is it is easier to drive so dynamics are more acceptable. The disadvantage is the 009s will reveal failings in your DAC and the amp itself i.e. the 007 can mask those. But you get a sluggish and masked sound with the 007s unless you power it with a powerful amp such as the KGSShv.
> 
> My view, get the 009s and then later review your other gear and the 323. If you go 007s, it may not work out IMO with that amp.


 
 Thank you. I'm becoming more inclined towards the SR-009 now.


----------



## rgs9200m

Good idea. The SR009's in a class by itself among all headphones (OK, just speculating since you can't hear all headphones, but it sounds better than the Orpheus I heard at a show a long time ago). So continuous and real and full of truth. The only true end-game. Needs at least a KG though. You just hear right through it into some real space and real sound-generating objects. Sometimes irritating with a stax amp. All of the above imho of course.


----------



## manywelps

I just got my SR-009s.
  
 So the only comparable headphones I have are the ESP-950s, and to be fair, the $500 ESP-950s hold their own in the midrange and the bass.  The SR-009 is slightly better.
  
 However, for soundstage, sub bass, and treble, the SR-009 laughs at basically every other headphones I've ever heard.
  
 If the ESP-950 seemed like it was effortless when it was playing complex musical pieces, the SR-009 makes it seem like a joke.
  
 Very happy with my purchase, $2200 well spent.
  
 (running it from an SRM-1/MK2 Pro)


----------



## ahnafakeef

rgs9200m said:


> Good idea. The SR009's in a class by itself among all headphones (OK, just speculating since you can't hear all headphones, but it sounds better than the Orpheus I heard at a show a long time ago). So continuous and real and full of truth. The only true end-game. Needs at least a KG though. You just hear right through it into some real space and real sound-generating objects. Sometimes irritating with a stax amp. All of the above imho of course.


 
 Thanks. Achieving end-game is my goal this time around. However, since the SR-009 is so pricey, I'm attempting to keep the amp/dac price to a minimum and I'll probably end up upgrading them later.
  
 The BHSE's price was saddening especially after I read some people's experiences with the SR-009 and it.


----------



## Rayzilla

ahnafakeef said:


> Thanks. Achieving end-game is my goal this time around. However, since the SR-009 is so pricey, I'm attempting to keep the amp/dac price to a minimum and I'll probably end up upgrading them later.
> 
> ...


 
 This is what I did. I just picked up the 009 and pairing now with the 323S until something else comes up. I am very happy with this as my starting point and I can tell that there is great potential with the 009.


----------



## ahnafakeef

rayzilla said:


> This is what I did. I just picked up the 009 and pairing now with the 323S until something else comes up. I am very happy with this as my starting point and I can tell that there is great potential with the 009.


 
 What DAC are you pairing them with?


----------



## gepardcv

ahnafakeef said:


> The BHSE's price was saddening especially after I read some people's experiences with the SR-009 and it.


 
  
 Two KGSTs currently on the amplification section of the HF sale forum, at outrageously low prices. Amazing no one has snapped them up yet. Believe me, you'll have no reason to complain about how the 009 sounds with the KGST.


----------



## manywelps

I should probably listen to the KGSS(or KGSSHV) before dropping that much money on them.
  
 It's going to have to be pretty drastic against the SRM-1/MK2 pro...


----------



## crazychile

manywelps said:


> I just got my SR-009s.
> 
> So the only comparable headphones I have are the ESP-950s, and to be fair, the $500 ESP-950s hold their own in the midrange and the bass.  The SR-009 is slightly better.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for this comparison. I own ESP-950s that I run with an upgraded Exstata Amp from Mjolnir Audio.  I think it sounds fine but have been contemplating a jump to the SR-007 or SR-009 for the very reasons you mention: treble extension and soundstage. Maybe Christmas bonus this year goes towards a pair of SR-009s.


----------



## Pokemonn

I got pic of new stax driver?


----------



## paradoxper

What you done started.


----------



## Pokemonn

pokemonn said:


> I got pic of new stax driver?


 
 I found some rumor at local japanese sites, which say this SR-??? unit cost lambda level but perform SR-009 level.
 If this rumor is true, this SR-??? will be a total destruction for high-end headphone industry?


----------



## Armaegis

Is there any area in the 007 that you guys would say is better than the 009?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Stiffening the stators won't hurt, but Lambda drivers aren't bad at all. On the other hand, I hope they'll release an new housing eventually.
  
 Anyway, got my hands on some SR-407. Can't compare to Novas or other SR-x0x Lambdas, but they are undoubtly more forward than my old normal bias and Signature. Very (very) dynamic, lots of "ooomph" on low mids, less airy, soundstage a bit constricted (thinner pads ?), more sensitive. They are definitely voiced to approach electrodynamics sound signature. Not bad per se, but some of the e-stat magic is a bit lost on the way.

 Ali


----------



## Michgelsen

pokemonn said:


> I found some rumor at local japanese sites, which say this SR-??? unit cost lambda level but perform SR-009 level.
> If this rumor is true, this SR-??? will be a total destruction for high-end headphone industry?


 
  
 Very interesting, but not very surprising that technology from the top-of-the-line model is adapted for the cheaper models. I am curious already how a new model will sound. I hope the 'oomph', as Ali-Pacha calls it, will not be lost, as I found that a welcome improvement when I had the 507.
  
 Besides this new Lambda model, I am also curious about the rumoured new amp Stax is supposedly working on. Do you have any info on that from your Japanese sources?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Maybe Arnaud has something to say 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ali


----------



## astrostar59

armaegis said:


> Is there any area in the 007 that you guys would say is better than the 009?


 

 It makes hideously bright DACs sound normal...


----------



## astrostar59

Sorry that sounds a bit abrupt. I can't think of any angle the 007 can equal the 009 to be honest. The only reason you would want the 007 instead of the 009 would be budget constraints or to mask or calm down a bright front end. Such a bright front end would really need to be resolved by other means. The 009 says how it is, hides nothing, reveals all those ambient details we crave to get closer to the source and realism of live music.
  
 I don't find the 009 bright. I know some (not saying who) claim it has a 'rough treble' or 'harsh top end'. I absolutely disagree. People that do IMO need to look at the rest of their equipment as IMO they headphone is the most ruler flat response and has an ultra fast grip on the music. Everything else including high end speakers sound slow to me.


----------



## manywelps

The 009 does sound bright to me.  I'm not sure if that's just because it's accurate.  The 007 sounded dark and significantly less detailed than the 009.
  
 It nearly bothers me, it might be the AKM chip in the bifrost uber... the AKM4396 is famously harsh, but I never heard that with the AKM4399 in the Bifrost.


----------



## Rayzilla

rayzilla said:


> This is what I did. I just picked up the 009 and pairing now with the 323S until something else comes up. I am very happy with this as my starting point and I can tell that there is great potential with the 009.


 
  
  


ahnafakeef said:


> What DAC are you pairing them with?


 
 I am pairing my set up with the Line Magnetic 502CA dac, which has the sabre chip but it also has the option to run tubes. I don't have a lot of experience with dacs other than the portable FiiO dac/amps and the Headstage Arrow. Compared to the FiiO, the LM is very transparent, no colouration of the sound. It probably allows the 009 to be as clean as can be. When selecting the tube option, it is less clean but I generally do not use this option because I like as much detail as possible. Sorry that I can't really say too much more since I haven't tried too many other dacs with my own amp.


----------



## Arthrumus

So I got my SR-407s today and WOW! My beloved SR-5s are officially obsolete, everything that they could do the 407s can do better. The 407 even trades blows with my ESP-950 as far as bass quality, and to my ears the 407 just sounds more controlled. I seem to be in the minority on the ESP-950, but I really don't think it's actually all that detailed. I suppose my copy could be defective (or perhaps my ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) but they sound veiled to me. Not so with the 407, and unlike the SR-5 the 407 provides satisfying bass without sacrificing any of the detail and clarity, they're just so freaking good at every genre I throw at them!
  
 These are my first lambdas, and I find the ergonomics to be great. I was a bit concerned when I first put them on, because the clamp is much tighter than my other headphones, but after hours of listening I've experienced no discomfort. In fact these are less fatiguing to me than the ESP-950. The 950s have almost no clamp at all, but something about their sound signature just rubs my ears the wrong way, causing me pain after relatively short listening sessions. I'm gonna go ahead and say it... think I've found my end game headphones... for now.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I've had my SR-5 for over 35 years, got my hands on SR-407 few days ago, and I don't feel one is better than another. Especially considering mids, which are truly lovely on SR-5. Dynamics and details are better on 407, but not sure bass extension is so much better on 407 (slight weakness of 407 among Lambdas). BTW, I haven't done any side by side comparison on my SRM-1/mk2 Pro, only Lambda Sig vs 407 on my modded 727, and Lambda NB vs 407 on SRM-1/mk2 Pro...
  
 Which amps / transformers do you have ?

 Ali


----------



## n3rdling

arthrumus said:


> So I got my SR-407s today and WOW! My beloved SR-5s are officially obsolete, everything that they could do the 407s can do better. The 407 even trades blows with my ESP-950 as far as bass quality, and to my ears the 407 just sounds more controlled. I seem to be in the minority on the ESP-950, but I really don't think it's actually all that detailed. I suppose my copy could be defective (or perhaps my ears
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The 950s are definitely veiled for a stat.  Using a better amp for them helps though.
  
 Armaegis, it's hard to name one area where the 007 bests the 009, but if your preference is warmer sounding gear then you'll probably prefer them.  They're definitely better for listening to poor recordings with.  Imaging precision might be a hair better as well.


----------



## astrostar59

manywelps said:


> The 009 does sound bright to me.  I'm not sure if that's just because it's accurate.  The 007 sounded dark and significantly less detailed than the 009.
> 
> It nearly bothers me, it might be the AKM chip in the bifrost uber... the AKM4396 is famously harsh, but I never heard that with the AKM4399 in the Bifrost.


 

 DS DACs can sound great as many R-2R DAC can, but the failings in many DACs IMO is the poor (cheap parts, after though in design) of the power supply and output stage. Many 3K+ DACs have pathetic power supplies and opp amps / buffer stage, it kills the sound signature regardless of the integrity of the digital PCB and chip type / architecture.


----------



## zolkis

armaegis said:


> Is there any area in the 007 that you guys would say is better than the 009?


 
  
 In stock form, none, if not for the bass, but IMO that as well is better on the 009.
 Now I mostly preferred my modded 007 to my 009 in liveliness, musicality, bass and treble, and also in stage.
 But it took insane amount of time to find that exact setting, and it's not an easy mod.
 However, the 009 continues to be more neutral, still more open, with more emphasized mids.
 I recommend getting the 009 with an amp you can afford at the moment and grow on that later.
 Moreover, though I managed to make my 009 sound warmer and with more bass with a slight mod to the pads, after all I think it's best kept in stock form and used with a proper amp.
 With all the HE1000 and Abyss hype, I think the 009 is still the best and most true-to-the-music headphone that is available.
 But it also depends on your musical preferences.


----------



## manywelps

astrostar59 said:


> manywelps said:
> 
> 
> > The 009 does sound bright to me.  I'm not sure if that's just because it's accurate.  The 007 sounded dark and significantly less detailed than the 009.
> ...


 

 The treble is so bright it's on the edge of annoying.  It give me listening fatigue after an hour or two if I'm at normal levels.
  
 I'm really confused because the ESP-950 doesn't do it, but the innerfidelity charts show the ESP-950 as having a treble spike, and the SR-009 not.
  
 Edit: It's been bothering me so much over the past 3 days, I just swapped out my uberfrost for my NFB-15.  The WM8741 is one of my favorite DACs for being smooth and non-fatiguing.


----------



## NoPants

detailed doesn't have to mean bright, or vice versa


----------



## Michgelsen

armaegis said:


> Is there any area in the 007 that you guys would say is better than the 009?


 
  
  


manywelps said:


> The treble is so bright it's on the edge of annoying.  It give me listening fatigue after an hour or two if I'm at normal levels.
> 
> I'm really confused because the ESP-950 doesn't do it, but the innerfidelity charts show the ESP-950 as having a treble spike, and the SR-009 not.
> 
> Edit: It's been bothering me so much over the past 3 days, I just swapped out my uberfrost for my NFB-15.  The WM8741 is one of my favorite DACs for being smooth and non-fatiguing.


 
  
  
 Here I am listening to and enjoying my 007 with all different kinds of music for a long time without any fatigue, and suddenly wondering whether there is a connection between these two quoted posts and mine.


----------



## manywelps

michgelsen said:


> Here I am listening to and enjoying my 007 with all different kinds of music for a long time without any fatigue, and suddenly wondering whether there is a connection between these two quoted posts and mine.


 
 I've listened to the 007, it's much darker than the 009.  It is ALSO less detailed.  I'd put it in the same level as HE-6's and TH900s.


----------



## MacedonianHero

manywelps said:


> I've listened to the 007, it's much darker than the 009.  It is ALSO less detailed.  I'd put it in the same level as HE-6's and TH900s.


 
  
 I agree with your first comments...but the 007 is a harder "nut to crack" than the 009 power wise. Get that right and I'd take it any day over the HE-6s and TH900s (I'd still put the SR-009s ahead). YMMV of course.


----------



## HemiSam

I own the TH-900's and the 007a's, amongst some others.  Both powered properly and fed by an ygg.  I can't say I prefer one significantly to the other looking back on many listening sessions.  They are both very good for me and equally enjoyable.  The TH900 is more v-shaped but won me over after I gave it a week or two of listening.  At first, it did not move me...I found it a bit harsh especially up top.
  
 They both have their strengths and for me they have more in common than not.
  
 HS


----------



## MacedonianHero

hemisam said:


> I own the TH-900's and the 007a's, amongst some others.  Both powered properly and fed by an ygg.  I can't say I prefer one significantly to the other looking back on many listening sessions.  They are both very good for me and equally enjoyable.  The TH900 is more v-shaped but won me over after I gave it a week or two of listening.  At first, it did not move me...I found it a bit harsh especially up top.
> 
> They both have their strengths and for me they have more in common than not.
> 
> HS


 
 Can I ask what your STAT amp is?

 I'm using a GS-X MK2 with my TH900s (now sold though) and for the SR007s (Mk1), I've heard them through KGSSHV, LL2 and DIY T2. There really is no comparison. The treble on the TH900s was too sizzly and the bass a bit too much north of neutral. The mids were also pulled back as a result. The SR007s are quicker and better balanced tonally speaking.
  
 (My DACs were Bryston BDA2, Metrum Acoustics Hex and now the Chord Hugo TT)


----------



## HemiSam

macedonianhero said:


> Can I ask what your STAT amp is?
> 
> I'm using a GS-X MK2 with my TH900s (now sold though) and for the SR007s (Mk1), I've heard them through KGSSHV, LL2 and DIY T2. There really is no comparison. The treble on the TH900s was too sizzly and the bass a bit too much north of neutral. The mids were also pulled back as a result. The SR007s are quicker and better balanced tonally speaking.
> 
> (My DACs were Bryston BDA2, Metrum Acoustics Hex and now the Chord Hugo TT)


 
  
 I'm using a 400v KGST with the stats and a Woo WA7 with the 900's.  I've swapped a few DAC's but have been happy with the ygg.  It feeds both setups.
  
 I felt the same way about the 900's until I settled into them.  No such issue for me now.
  
 They each have their strengths and weaknesses but for me they have a lot in common.  I lean towards a warmer signature with some detail.
  
 HS


----------



## MacedonianHero

hemisam said:


> I'm using a 400v KGST with the stats and a Woo WA7 with the 900's.  I've swapped a few DAC's but have been happy with the ygg.  It feeds both setups.
> 
> I felt the same way about the 900's until I settled into them.  No such issue for me now.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The KGST is more of a SR009 amp...the KGSSHV/BHSE would be more of an SR007 amp. But as I mentioned...YMMV.


----------



## HemiSam

macedonianhero said:


> The KGST is more of a SR009 amp...the KGSSHV/BHSE would be more of an SR007 amp. But as I mentioned...YMMV.


 
  
 It's interesting that you post that as I've had others that are Stax vets indicate the KGST goes very well with the 007's as they used it with both them and the 009's.  Can't speak to it personally as I've only heard the 007a's (the new versions) with the 400v KGST I had made.  My impression of the amp is that despite the tubes it comes across as a hybrid in flavor.  Similar to the WA7....not full blown tubey.
  
 HS


----------



## MacedonianHero

hemisam said:


> It's interesting that you post that as I've had others that are Stax vets indicate the KGST goes very well with the 007's as they used it with both them and the 009's.  Can't speak to it personally as I've only heard the 007a's (the new versions) with the 400v KGST I had made.  My impression of the amp is that despite the tubes it comes across as a hybrid in flavor.  Similar to the WA7....not full blown tubey.
> 
> HS


 
  
 To clarify, I wasn't saying the KGST wasn't a great amp for the 007s, just that it's more in line for the 009s. Now on a DIY T-2, the 007s are truly glorious (though I still prefer the 009s).


----------



## manywelps

The NFB-15 took the edge off the SR-009s as I suspected.  They really are unforgiving...
  
 Of course I lost some resolution between the AKM4399 and dual WM8941s, but it's pleasant now.


----------



## HemiSam

macedonianhero said:


> To clarify, I wasn't saying the KGST wasn't a great amp for the 007s, just that it's more in line for the 009s. Now on a DIY T-2, the 007s are truly glorious (though I still prefer the 009s).


 
  
 I'll see if I can get my hands on a heftier estat amp but my gut is telling the more is more thing has its limitations with my hearing.  It'll need to be at least a week long rental or trade as I can't relate to wrapping my head around a device in an hour or two.  I need more seat time to formulate a meaningful opinion.
  
 I'll likely purchase the 009's before too long despite my satisfaction with my rigs and the risk of a channel imbalance or the like.  Had my share of Stax drama.
  
 HS


----------



## ahnafakeef

I'm currently leaning towards a Bifrost Uber with USB Gen2 for a DAC for a SR-009 + 323S setup. Any input about your experience with such a setup vs with other DACs would be extremely appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## manywelps

ahnafakeef said:


> I'm currently leaning towards a Bifrost Uber with USB Gen2 for a DAC for a SR-009 + 323S setup. Any input about your experience with such a setup vs with other DACs would be extremely appreciated. Thank you.


 
 No.  The AKM4399 in the Bifrost is too harsh for the SR-009's for me.  The NFB-15 sounds fine, I'm going to have to inspect some of the R2R stuff...


----------



## ahnafakeef

manywelps said:


> No.  The AKM4399 in the Bifrost is too harsh for the SR-009's for me.  The NFB-15 sounds fine, I'm going to have to inspect some of the R2R stuff...


 
 So what DAC would you recommend?


----------



## manywelps

ahnafakeef said:


> manywelps said:
> 
> 
> > No.  The AKM4399 in the Bifrost is too harsh for the SR-009's for me.  The NFB-15 sounds fine, I'm going to have to inspect some of the R2R stuff...
> ...


 

 I'm working on that same issue right now.  I can tell you that the uberfrost is too harsh for the SR-009 (with the SRM-1/MK2 Pro, which is VERY similar to the 323S from what I understand).


----------



## purk

macedonianhero said:


> The KGST is more of a SR009 amp...the KGSSHV/BHSE would be more of an SR007 amp. But as I mentioned...YMMV.


 
 The KGSSHV is actually more of an all rounder IMO compared to the KGST.  The BHSE with the right tubes is quite sublime with the SR009.  The KGST doesn't quite have enough the resolving power and sheer sense of power compare to the KGSSHVs & BHSE.  However, it is a very sweet sounding amplifier.


----------



## ahnafakeef

manywelps said:


> I'm working on that same issue right now.  I can tell you that the uberfrost is too harsh for the SR-009 (with the SRM-1/MK2 Pro, which is VERY similar to the 323S from what I understand).


 
 Is the situation same if I switch to a 006tS amp?
  
 If yes, what DAC is recommended for SR-009 with 006tS amp?


----------



## manywelps

ahnafakeef said:


> manywelps said:
> 
> 
> > I'm working on that same issue right now.  I can tell you that the uberfrost is too harsh for the SR-009 (with the SRM-1/MK2 Pro, which is VERY similar to the 323S from what I understand).
> ...


 
 I don't know about that amp.  I have no idea how it pairs with DACs and the SR-009


----------



## ahnafakeef

Thank you @manywelps
 ------------------------------------------------------------------
 Guys, could you please provide me with opinions on the SR-009 with a 323S vs with a 006tS? I am currently in the midst of deciding between the two. Thank you.


----------



## astrostar59

manywelps said:


> The treble is so bright it's on the edge of annoying.  It give me listening fatigue after an hour or two if I'm at normal levels.
> 
> I'm really confused because the ESP-950 doesn't do it, but the innerfidelity charts show the ESP-950 as having a treble spike, and the SR-009 not.
> 
> Edit: It's been bothering me so much over the past 3 days, I just swapped out my uberfrost for my NFB-15.  The WM8741 is one of my favorite DACs for being smooth and non-fatiguing.


 

 What amp are you using? The lower Stax amps can sound bright with the 009. I find many DS DACs sound edgy in the treble anyway. Can you hook up your front end to a speaker system? Turn it up loud and see how it sounds, I would guess you have trouble upstream...
  
 My 009s are perfect on my Audio Note DAC, and perfect on my friends K-01. Basically putting a 5K phone which is comparable to a 50K speaker on the front of a low end front end will not be a good outcome. Better to go with the (masking) 007s if you want to stay with that front end.
  
 IMO you need a 5K DAC at least and a better amp if a Stax amp.


----------



## rgs9200m

Astrostar is right on. Don't people do their due diligence and read any more? All you need to know has been said over and over in the forums for years now. It's not hidden like Hillary's emails. You don't need to subpoena these posts. It's not that hard.
  
 People need to read these forums and do some research. It seems obvious they have not read about this here before asking or buying something. Spending half a day or so plowing through the last few years of the Stax threads here and elsewhere (at least read Tyll's epic 009 test) would save a lot of time and money.
  
 The strong consensus is that the Stax amps do not work well with the 009 (or the 007 for that matter) and can make the 009 sound shrill up top and anemic down low and flat in the middle. I keep reading about people trying this or that Stax amp and then saying things don't sound good. And then they incredulously keep asking about getting some other type of Stax amp. And they the continue down the same rabbit hole and get into more trouble and then complain about Stax phones. Give it up.
  
 You will clearly get an idea of what to get and what not to get for the Stax phones. Basic reading comprehension will make the consensus obvious. There are a some outliers among the posts but that's always true. But look at the (vast) majority opinion for the truth. Look for people who have heard the major players in stat amps and take them seriously. There's an abundance of posts by experienced people like this.


----------



## purk

manywelps said:


> I don't know about that amp.  I have no idea how it pairs with DACs and the SR-009




Just get the 323s and save up to get the kgsshv or kgst. The 323s is a great amp for the current going price. You can get the 717 as well but why not just save a little more and grab the kgss. You can find several kgss amps now for less than $1500 and that's a good deal.


----------



## Michgelsen

Is a non-HV KGSS worth it over a 717?


----------



## manywelps

Or is an HV worth it over a normal KGSS.  They're understandably difficult to audition.


----------



## purk

michgelsen said:


> Is a non-HV KGSS worth it over a 717?


 
 Yes, the KGSS use better parts than Stax SRM-717 as well as better transformer.  The 717 is a dark sounding amp while the KGSS is very neutral.  I personally don't think the KGSS and 717 can drive the SR007 MKI optimally.  The KGSS should do a very good job at driving the SR009 however.
   
 Quote:
  


manywelps said:


> Or is an HV worth it over a normal KGSS.  They're understandably difficult to audition.


 
 I personally prefer the HV over the regular KGSS.  I never own the KGSS but had auditioned it with the SR-007 MKI and thought that the combo was good but not great.  The KGSS still doesn't quite have enough voltage swing to drive the SRM-007 MKI properly.  The KGSSHVs that I've tried all did a better job at driving both the SR009 & SR007.


----------



## manywelps

purk said:


> michgelsen said:
> 
> 
> > Is a non-HV KGSS worth it over a 717?
> ...


 

 What are fair price ranges for new and used KGSS and KGSS-HV's?
  
 I see used KGSS ("clones") below $1000.


----------



## HemiSam

purk said:


> The KGSSHV is actually more of an all rounder IMO compared to the KGST.  The BHSE with the right tubes is quite sublime with the SR009.  The KGST doesn't quite have enough the resolving power and sheer sense of power compare to the KGSSHVs & BHSE.  However, it is a very sweet sounding amplifier.


 
  
 Out of curiosity, is the KGST you are referring to the 350v or 400v version or both?
  
 I only have the 400v built by headinclouds and it's synergizes very well with the current 007a's.  
  
 HS


----------



## purk

Mine is 350V Sam, so the 400V may make all the difference.  Yes, Jeff's built is quite awesome.  I wish I went for one when I had the chance.  I now want to get the KGSSHV Carbon.


----------



## yaluen

pokemonn said:


> I got pic of new stax driver?


 
  




 A few more shots of the mystery new driver. This was from a headphone show held in Guangzhou last weekend.
  
 http://sound.zol.com.cn/541/5410271.html


----------



## n3rdling

Interesting how the charge ring press fits into the stator assembly.


----------



## vapman

I finally overcame my fears and ripped the stock pads off the SR-X MKIII.
 I actually laughed out loud for a second... all that anxiety and they were easy to remove as stickers off a sticker steet.
 I have a set of real leather (pleather?) pads for the SR-X, but I'm actually really enjoying using them with some velour pads that fit.
 They sound beautiful with the SRD-7 and my Crown amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 very unforgiving to bad recordings of course though not as bad as I expected! I can enjoy high quality MP3's through these.
  
 The adapter for you to stick speaker wires into on the SRD-7 is so annoying... i can see why people have chopped it off, but I'm not ever going to do such a thing... really makes me think twice about selling them, but ugh...
  
 Just look how comfy they look! I know all of you with expensive leather pads are grumbling right now while thinking about how often you have to peel them off your face


----------



## kugino

hemisam said:


> Out of curiosity, is the KGST you are referring to the 350v or 400v version or both?
> 
> I only have the 400v built by headinclouds and it's synergizes very well with the current 007a's.
> 
> HS



I think Geoff is finished with my kgst and hopefully I'll have it within a week or two. it'll be paired with an 007A that I used for a short time with a 717 that I had to return to the owner because it was slightly damaged. so I haven't had an amp for the 007A in 5 or 6 months and am looking forward to finally settling down with this stax setup. in the meantime I've been listening to my he-6, which isn't too shabby.


----------



## paradoxper

Congrats! Geoff is an amazing gentleman. And a pretty darn good builder.


----------



## manywelps

astrostar59 said:


> manywelps said:
> 
> 
> > The treble is so bright it's on the edge of annoying.  It give me listening fatigue after an hour or two if I'm at normal levels.
> ...


 
 I'm using an SRM-1/MK2 Pro as in my sig.
  


rgs9200m said:


> Astrostar is right on. Don't people do their due diligence and read any more? All you need to know has been said over and over in the forums for years now. It's not hidden like Hillary's emails. You don't need to subpoena these posts. It's not that hard.
> 
> People need to read these forums and do some research. It seems obvious they have not read about this here before asking or buying something. Spending half a day or so plowing through the last few years of the Stax threads here and elsewhere (at least read Tyll's epic 009 test) would save a lot of time and money.
> 
> ...


 
 Does you have a link to Tyll's test?


----------



## astrostar59

manywelps said:


> I'm using an SRM-1/MK2 Pro as in my sig.
> 
> Does you have a link to Tyll's test?


 

 I would look to buy a KGSS second hand, or commission one. Even better find a good KGSShv, they are about if you keep looking. Then you start to get a serious sounding system and those 009s will blow your mind - trust me. Forget the Stax amps, they are ok-ish for the 307/407/507 but once you get serious i.e. 007 and 009 and get into real depth and transparency / attack you need to fead them a similarly good amp. Lets face it, there is NO sense whatsoever in feeding your 009 3.5K headphones with an old 1K Stax amp that is marked up 100%. Basically you are feeding a world leading headphone, the equivalent of a 50K speaker with a budget run of the mill 500 US basic amp. It makes no sense, think about it.
  
 You are posting here, so are excited about the Stax sound, and are keen to have more, or find a more balanced setup. Don't give up!
  
 Your dream (sensibly priced system) IMO would be:
  
 Mac running Audirvana+ or a PC equivalent
 A good DAC (Yiggy / Pavane / Audio Note DAC 3.1 kit)
 KGSS or KGSShv
 009s
  
 Ha Ha Job done. You will be rushing home from work to listen to that I can promise you.... and staying up till 3am plenty.


----------



## rgs9200m

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UGtjJYVew4
  
 Tyll's Amps for Stax SR009 video.
 Such a great phone with a KGSShv. Truly endgame and it does things like no other phone... Good luck.
  
 And totally off topic, this is a great read on Innerfidelity if you missed it ( I found it when looking for the SR009 video there) :
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/busted#TojSQtYuPkRhIWxI.97


----------



## karlgerman

One of the "Experts" Tyll or his well known Mastering Audio Engeneer friend Bob Katz, must have a little hearing problem.
 Katz didn´t like the 009 at all!
 Nice to see Tylls reaction in the video as Katz told him his opinion.
  
 So who´s right?


----------



## vapman

The SRM-1 MK2 and SR-009's are not a good match IMO.
 SRM-1 MK2 is much stronger with "lower end" and older Stax phones.
 I've heard a friend's SR-009, even the 323S compliments it much more than the SRM-1 MK2.
 However, if I were to upgrade from the SRD-7 based setup I have, I might consider a SRM-1 MK2 unless I come across a nice normal-bias tube amp.


----------



## astrostar59

vapman said:


> The SRM-1 MK2 and SR-009's are not a good match IMO.
> SRM-1 MK2 is much stronger with "lower end" and older Stax phones.
> I've heard a friend's SR-009, even the 323S compliments it much more than the SRM-1 MK2.
> However, if I were to upgrade from the SRD-7 based setup I have, I might consider a SRM-1 MK2 unless I come across a nice normal-bias tube amp.


 
  


vapman said:


> The SRM-1 MK2 and SR-009's are not a good match IMO.
> SRM-1 MK2 is much stronger with "lower end" and older Stax phones.
> I've heard a friend's SR-009, even the 323S compliments it much more than the SRM-1 MK2.
> However, if I were to upgrade from the SRD-7 based setup I have, I might consider a SRM-1 MK2 unless I come across a nice normal-bias tube amp.


 

 IMO Stax has NEVER made an amp suitable for the high end attained by the 009s, might never build one. The T2 probably, but it nearly bankrupt them.
 Just because Stax make a range of amps, and made many many different amps in the past doesn't mean they fit the 009. It is a lost cause IMO. The 009 is a world class headphone that can beat or equal any domestic speaker system. Can the Stax amps equal or beat any Stat amplifier out their? You have you answer....


----------



## vapman

astrostar59 said:


> IMO Stax has NEVER made an amp suitable for the high end attained by the 009s, might never build one. The T2 probably, but it nearly bankrupt them.
> Just because Stax make a range of amps, and made many many different amps in the past doesn't mean they fit the 009. It is a lost cause IMO. The 009 is a world class headphone that can beat or equal any domestic speaker system. Can the Stax amps equal or beat any Stat amplifier out their? You have you answer....


 

 Much better said than I was trying to put it. Unless you can get a T2 or similar I think we should thank all who brought us such incredible products as the KGSSHV 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 After all if you have headphones worth $3000, why would you surprised that trying to drive them out of a amp worth $300 tops isn't quite cutting it. To me, it's like getting a really nice amp and really nice headphones but using your laptop's headphone out.


----------



## paradoxper

It's not just Stax. Ever heard the Elektra or LL. Going with KG is the way and the truth and the life.


----------



## HemiSam

purk said:


> Mine is 350V Sam, so the 400V may make all the difference.  Yes, Jeff's built is quite awesome.  I wish I went for one when I had the chance.  I now want to get the KGSSHV Carbon.


 
  
 Geoff has been great, including with follow-up.  One of the best audio purchase decisions I've made.
  
 The HV Carbon looks to be a really nice amp.  Would very much like to see what you think if you decide to jump in.
  
 Cheers,
 Sam


----------



## HemiSam

kugino said:


> I think Geoff is finished with my kgst and hopefully I'll have it within a week or two. it'll be paired with an 007A that I used for a short time with a 717 that I had to return to the owner because it was slightly damaged. so I haven't had an amp for the 007A in 5 or 6 months and am looking forward to finally settling down with this stax setup. in the meantime I've been listening to my he-6, which isn't too shabby.


 
  
 I think you'll be pleased as punch when you get your hands on your KGST.  Please let us know what you think once you've had a chance to live with it.  I know it's been a long while since you drove your 007A's with the 717, but any reflections would be good to see.
  
 I find it very interesting how varied people's experiences are.  Not altogether surprising given all the different music, setups and reference points.
  
 Best of luck.
  
 HS


----------



## vapman

paradoxper said:


> It's not just Stax. Ever heard the Elektra or LL. Going with KG is the way and the truth and the life.


 
 Hmm, haven't heard the Elektra or LL... remind me where you live again?


----------



## purk

hemisam said:


> Geoff has been great, including with follow-up.  One of the best audio purchase decisions I've made.
> 
> The HV Carbon looks to be a really nice amp.  Would very much like to see what you think if you decide to jump in.
> 
> ...


 
 I hope to have mine by early December so I will definitely let you know.  I hope Geoff is back in game building the amp again.  His builds are very inspiring and first class.


----------



## paradoxper

Geoff claims he has retired.


----------



## purk

paradoxper said:


> Geoff claims he has retired.


 
 That's why I said that.


----------



## paradoxper

purk said:


> That's why I said that.


 
 And that's why I said claims. Ha.


----------



## John Buchanan

It wasn't the T2 that nearly bankrupt Stax. They had very diverse product lines that were way too expensive - the profit making lines (the ear speakers and amplifiers cheaper than the T2) were dragged down by the loss making more expensive lines. They had virtually every component imaginable except a turntable for building a system. They were excellent products, but far too expensive. The reorganisation of Stax cut their product line back to a headphone and amp centred line, with a few accessories.


----------



## purk

john buchanan said:


> It wasn't the T2 that nearly bankrupt Stax. They had very diverse product lines that were way too expensive - the profit making lines (the ear speakers and amplifiers cheaper than the T2) were dragged down by the loss making more expensive lines. They had virtually every component imaginable except a turntable for building a system. They were excellent products, but far too expensive. The reorganisation of Stax cut their product line back to a headphone and amp centred line, with a few accessories.


 
 Probably true.  The original Lamba pro was quite expensive during its time.  The SRM-T2 along with the SR-Omega were one of the last products Stax released before going under.


----------



## Earspeakers

> Just because Stax make a range of amps, and made many many different amps in the past doesn't mean they fit the 009. It is a lost cause IMO. The 009 is a world class headphone that can beat or equal any domestic speaker system. Can the Stax amps equal or beat any Stat amplifier out their? You have you answer....


 

  
 I agree with all of this. I've got just about every Stax amp and first of all they're lovely, but I'm consistently hearing that they really only shine on the Normal headphones, or on a Pro paying relatively quietly. Their amps don't innovate that much and the design really only works well on the Normals IMO. 
  
  
Mysterious Upcoming Stax
  
 Exciting, a new line! My prediction; they are discontinuing the venerable Lambda design (the black/brown plastic grill) in an attempt to modernize it. The headphone is really looking dated. This design appears to be have 009 design elements in an oval design; clearly a new Lambda, either a high end Lambda or replacement of the line. 
  
 Interesting to pre-announce it by showing the bare drivers.


----------



## vapman

Maybe this is why Price Japan had that crazy sale out of nowhere... trying to get rid of leftover lambda shells?


----------



## manywelps

There's a weird KGSS clone for $750 on the classifieds, but it's the wrong voltage.
  
 There's even a weird stax 727A KGSSHV variant or something in there...
  
 What are fair prices for KGSS's and KGSSHV's?


----------



## astrostar59

Is that a new Stax amp I see there? Looks kinda KGSS sized?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

T1-W, 1994.

 Ali


----------



## Earspeakers

Actually SRM-T1W, just to be stupidly picky  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 A beautiful Stax, with unusual rounded top knobs (all the rest are flat top including the SRM-T1S, except I think the T2 has the same rounded top), same unusual color as the T2 and T1S, the only one with a user adjustable bias, and the only amp that doubles as a passive preamp. Rest of the pics show discontinued items like the 404LE/600LE. Only new bit is the driver, which I hope means it'll release soon.


----------



## astrostar59

earspeakers said:


> Actually SRM-T1W, just to be stupidly picky
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting. Is it anywhere near the SQ of the T2 or is it just another Stax ok'ish amp?


----------



## Tinkerer

earspeakers said:


> doubles as a passive preamp


 
 Can't you use the tape function in the SRA-12S for that, and by extension I think the 10S?


----------



## Earspeakers

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. Is it anywhere near the SQ of the T2 or is it just another Stax ok'ish amp?


 
  
 I'm almost finished with my T2 and haven't heard one so don't know, but I'd say no. It sounds like a somewhat richer T1. Personally I don't rate the Stax amps as OK-ish though, it really depends on the headphone and music context. I'm listening to the Haydn canon on a SRM-T1 with a 404 and it's lovely - perfect I'd say. Haydn used a classical orchestra which is a rather small one, and these acoustical recordings work wonderfully with the combination. 
  


tinkerer said:


> Can't you use the tape function in the SRA-12S for that, and by extension I think the 10S?


 
  
 True (yes the 10S is just a Japanese 100V 10S), and the 3S too (mine is on the bench for repair but I'm pretty sure it has tape out). But tape out acts as a splitter I believe? With the T1W it's either headphones or preamp, you don't get both (when in headphone mode it's full out on the preamp out, and when in preamp mode I think it's silent on the headphone side).


----------



## Tinkerer

Speaking of splitters, is there a particular recommended phase splitter circuit for unbalanced inputs for estat amps? Seems like 90% of the diy amp builds are balanced only and it would be nice to have the flexibility of rca as well.


----------



## Michgelsen

Phase splitter is not needed on estat amps. Usually the minus is grounded and you're good to go.


----------



## Tinkerer

Well that makes life a lot easier and also explains the grounding scheme at the jacks of my Stax preamp. Thanks. Still getting a handle on all this stuff.


----------



## zolkis

Did someone hear the new Stax SR-507 II?
http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/stax-sr-507-ii-earspeakers-and-srm-006ts-kimik-energiser/
 Very curious about its midrange vs the old version of the 507.


----------



## headinclouds

paradoxper said:


> Geoff claims he has retired.


 
 I have not actually said that; what I am doing is stopping building for others. I have enjoyed this hobby and had much nice feedback from people who listened to the KG amps. 
  
 As always I thank Kevin, Birgir and the others who provide input for these superb designs.  The amps have all proved to be untemperamental and great sounding.
  
 May I say how I got started? A few years back I had a good dynamic set up but decided to audition a Stax system (SR407 and SRM006Ts).  The list price of this from an official dealer in England is now about £1600/ $2480, so is a modest system.
  
 I thought it had very attractive qualities but was let down by the weak amplifier (cue astrostar!)  I read KG’s article on the KGSS/hv and decided to build a KGSShv.
  
 I was suitably impressed and at the London meets was asked to build more.  So I have spent a lot of time over the last couple of years seeing how nice (and small) I could make KGSShv and KGST. I have decided I want to stop that now to spend time on my own things. I will sell one of my KGST shortly and that is it.
  
 Re Hi Fiplus review mentioned above,  it is good to hear that the 507, which I enjoy a lot, has been improved but the reviewer specifically mentions that system’s lack of volume and the suitability for small scale music.  So overall the reason for needing a KG amp has not changed.


----------



## Earspeakers

zolkis said:


> Did someone hear the new Stax SR-507 II?
> http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/stax-sr-507-ii-earspeakers-and-srm-006ts-kimik-energiser/
> Very curious about its midrange vs the old version of the 507.


 
  
 Exciting. The plastic looks like what they're using on the 207, which is much better IMO than what is used in the higher end ones. Say goodbye to the 'Stax Fart'. So this is the new mysterious driver, or not? by the sound of the article this is an iteration; new plastic, new touches, new membrane plastic but otherwise the same.


----------



## rgs9200m

I was always curious about what the Kimik mod was precisely. The Kimik mod on the 006t as described in the Hifiplus article consists of:
 1. New Tubes (cryo'd ones) and the necessary biasing.
 2. Tube Dampers.
 3. A new fuse.
 Interesting.


----------



## Earspeakers

Basically, really minor stuff.


----------



## manywelps

Speaking of which, is there a place on this forum for KGSS/KGSSHV builders or similar?


----------



## rgs9200m

earspeakers said:


> Basically, really minor stuff.


 
 Yeah, that's what I was thinking.


----------



## kugino

purk said:


> I hope to have mine by early December so I will definitely let you know.  I hope Geoff is back in game building the amp again.  His builds are very inspiring and first class.


what number is your amp? mine is 09...I thought Geoff said he might be finishing with 10. mine is scheduled to arrive tomorrow so I'm pretty stoked about that. after making sure all is working I will put up some impressions on the weekend.


----------



## kugino

manywelps said:


> Speaking of which, is there a place on this forum for KGSS/KGSSHV builders or similar?


there might be in the diy section. or better yet, visit the other site where you'll get all the info you need on the kgss/hv


----------



## rgs9200m

I would give my support to Birgir (aka spritzer, aka Mjolnir audio). My gear from him is built like a Rolls Royce and sounds unbelievably good. And he always responds quickly and comprehensively to email questions. He's a blessing to the Stax world and I think he deserves our business. He really cares about quality and takes pride in his work. He's not in this for the money and is a throwback to an age of great craftsmen. 
 If budget is an issue, I highly recommend a KGSS-HV Mini. This small marvel qualifies as an endgame amp. This and an 009 and a really good DAC or CD player is affordable in high-end terms and IMO in the league of as good as it gets for natural sound in the headphone world. I have this chain.


----------



## mulveling

If you have a 007 or 009, just don't even bother with a KGSS. Go for the HV. Or maybe really nice deal on a KGST. They're available, even plentiful, for good builds at good prices if you have the slightest bit of patience and ability to deal like a sane human being* in the used market. 
  
 *OK I know some here do NOT have this ability; in that case you really shouldn't enjoy such nice things anyways.


----------



## purk

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. Is it anywhere near the SQ of the T2 or is it just another Stax ok'ish amp?




The t1w is nothing special for the sr007 but maybe ok with the sr009. It's basically the t1s with a preamp output and source selector. I had one in the past and it was quite a good with my lambda pro and signature.


----------



## vapman

mulveling said:


> *OK I know some here do NOT have this ability; in that case you really shouldn't enjoy such nice things anyways.


 
  
 If only people who knew how to safely work with 600 volts and build one of these were allowed to post in this thread, it would be like three pages, and you know that.
 Do you think this thread's average Stax fan can just throw together a KGSSHV on a whim gven enough time?


----------



## loligagger

Pretty sure he means the ability to deal in the used market, not build amplifiers.
  
 Speaking of builds, I'm still troubleshooting this but it does play music.


----------



## milosz

loligagger said:


> Pretty sure he means the ability to deal in the used market, not build amplifiers.
> 
> Speaking of builds, I'm still troubleshooting this but it does play music.


 
  
 What problems are you having?  Stax Mafia giving you any help?


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> If you have a 007 or 009, just don't even bother with a KGSS. Go for the HV. Or maybe really nice deal on a KGST. They're available, even plentiful, for good builds at good prices if you have the slightest bit of patience and ability to deal like a sane human being* in the used market.
> 
> *OK I know some here do NOT have this ability; in that case you really shouldn't enjoy such nice things anyways.


 

 There are those who try to ignore the facts i.e Stax made the 009 to run with a none Stax amp. There is no other alternative. If I had to use a Stax amp,I would go for the second hand 717 as it is the closest to a KG design i.e. half decent. Anyone investing in a 3.5K headphone really needs to understand that the rest of the gear has to be about the same budget, so DAC 3K, amp 3K+ IMO.
  
 There are no hidden Stax gems that are going to get your 009 to sing at its best period.


----------



## comzee

Got my 009, using it with my Mjölnir made Carbon. Also got confirmation that my Yggy shipped. 
Today is a good day.


----------



## preproman

comzee said:


> Got my 009, using it with my Mjölnir made Carbon. Also got confirmation that my Yggy shipped.
> Today is a good day.


 

 Lets see some photos of that carbon...


----------



## comzee

preproman said:


> Lets see some photos of that carbon...


 
 I took some quick macro shots of the electronics when I got it, nothing special, but it gives you an idea. 
 http://imgur.com/a/ckfdJ


----------



## kugino

new toy in the house thanks to @headinclouds haven't given it a listen yet...still cleaning and rearranging the listening station. just wanted to gloat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 it really is a beautiful piece of work by geoff...


----------



## astrostar59

kugino said:


> new toy in the house thanks to @headinclouds haven't given it a listen yet...still cleaning and rearranging the listening station. just wanted to gloat
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nice, congratulations. I designed the faceplate for Geoff, and bought 2 of his KGSShv off-boards. Top bloke and a credit to the Stax community. Where are you located? I think Geoff delivered some of his builds, I picked mine up as he is only 2 hours away. He has a great DIY 'den', very jealous.


----------



## kugino

astrostar59 said:


> Nice, congratulations. I designed the faceplate for Geoff, and bought 2 of his KGSShv off-boards. Top bloke and a credit to the Stax community. Where are you located? I think Geoff delivered some of his builds, I picked mine up as he is only 2 hours away. He has a great DIY 'den', very jealous.


 
 thanks! nice job with the faceplate design. the whole thing is very beautiful. my correspondence with geoff has been top-notch. he's been very helpful...
  
 i think he shipped it on sunday and i got it half way around the world on wednesday.
  
 now, the only problem...it seems my 007A has a channel imbalance. vocals localize at around 1:00. sigh...not sure what to do yet, but it's put a damper on things for a bit. anyone have any ideas?


----------



## astrostar59

kugino said:


> thanks! nice job with the faceplate design. the whole thing is very beautiful. my correspondence with geoff has been top-notch. he's been very helpful...
> 
> i think he shipped it on sunday and i got it half way around the world on wednesday.
> 
> now, the only problem...it seems my 007A has a channel imbalance. vocals localize at around 1:00. sigh...not sure what to do yet, but it's put a damper on things for a bit. anyone have any ideas?


 

 When did this happen? Was it apparent on your old amp before the KGST?


----------



## kugino

astrostar59 said:


> When did this happen? Was it apparent on your old amp before the KGST?


 
 i got these 007A earlier this year second-hand. i bought a used 717 that i paired with the 007A for a few weeks, but the 717 was damaged and i heard the imbalance then, but didn't know whether it was the 007A or the 717. i returned the 717 and haven't had an amp for around 6 months and then decided to buy one of geoff's kgst. so, it seems like it's the 007A and it probably had this imbalance from the very beginning, but i didn't test it well enough when i received it so i'm stuck with it. just looking to see how i might go about getting them repaired...without spending an arm and a leg.


----------



## astrostar59

kugino said:


> i got these 007A earlier this year second-hand. i bought a used 717 that i paired with the 007A for a few weeks, but the 717 was damaged and i heard the imbalance then, but didn't know whether it was the 007A or the 717. i returned the 717 and haven't had an amp for around 6 months and then decided to buy one of geoff's kgst. so, it seems like it's the 007A and it probably had this imbalance from the very beginning, but i didn't test it well enough when i received it so i'm stuck with it. just looking to see how i might go about getting them repaired...without spending an arm and a leg.


 

 I would approach PJ and ask for a price for 2 x current 007A drivers. I took my 007 MK2.5 apart when I replaced the cables, and it is quite easy. You could do it. The biggest hassle is getting the ear cups back onto the frames, I took a few hours and plenty of swearing!
  
 BTW my 007As which I bought from Pj 8 weeks back, they sound magic, much better than my previous 007 MK2.5s. If you bought new drivers you would get I expect, a better sound as well, depending how old the drivers are in your 007As. I suspect Stax updated the drivers for the 007s quite recently...


----------



## Tinkerer

Or he could, you know, adjust the balance pot of the weaker channel in the amp with a $4 ceramic screwdriver and not spend another thousand + dollars. It could even be drift in the amp after warm up or something going on with one of the tubes. He could check the balance and offset himself on the amp with a $10 multimeter.
  
 There's a real straightforward description of how to read it right here http://www.head-fi.org/t/648596/stax-srm-1-mk2-re-cap/15
  
  
 I just think checking the obvious cheap stuff or doing a simple adjustment would be better than diving right into the deep end of driver replacement.


----------



## astrostar59

tinkerer said:


> Or he could, you know, adjust the balance pot of the weaker channel in the amp with a $4 ceramic screwdriver and not spend another thousand + dollars. It could even be drift in the amp after warm up or something going on with one of the tubes. He could check the balance and offset himself on the amp with a $10 multimeter.
> 
> There's a real straightforward description of how to read it right here http://www.head-fi.org/t/648596/stax-srm-1-mk2-re-cap/15
> 
> ...


 

 I would get to a Stax dealership and try your 007As on a Stax (new) amp. Then you will know for sure. The imbalance could be in your front end or cables or the amp or the headphone.
 Only way to know for sure is try a different system that is known to be balanced.


----------



## Tinkerer

Yeah, figuring out for certain where the problem lies would be top priority.


----------



## labrat




----------



## Earspeakers

I hear frequent imbalance in my Stax amps, only to try a different headphone or different volume for it to change. One thing is the Alps pots they use often have a large tracking imbalance as you go to high attenuation/low volume. I don't know if it's built in, or develops over time due to heating in the chassis, but at any rate it's a good thing they have a built in imbalance.


----------



## labrat




----------



## headinclouds

Some of you might like to try a simple experiment.  Connect a signal generator to both inputs of your amp.  Running through the frequencies you should find that the tone stays stable and central in your head at all volumes.  (don’t overdo the volume as it can hurt your ears or blow the amp/phones).    Mono music should give the same effect.
  
 I have tried this with all my phones with consistent results.


----------



## astrostar59

Good idea Geoff. I downloaded some Flac files off the web with tones from 18hz to 20k. I did it to test my room acoustics.
  
 On room acoustics, it is a complex subject. All rooms have standing waves and room nodes. Basically the bass response especially is very dependant on how far back you sit from the 2 speakers. Imagine a power boat and the wake, the wake is an exact distance ratio v speed to the length of the boat. No matter how fast it goes. Audio waves do the same thing, and as the frequency goes lower the distance between the waves or 'dead areas' widens. 
  
 So, if you have a nice speaker system, and want to impress your friends, mark the hot spot on the floor first!
  
 Obviously a headphone doesn't have such issues which is nice.


----------



## headinclouds

Thanks for pointing out that you can get the tones off the web.  Not every one has a sig-gen.


----------



## karlgerman

Make your Speakers near field, and you might get the best of both world´s! imo


----------



## kugino

astrostar59 said:


> Good idea Geoff. I downloaded some Flac files off the web with tones from 18hz to 20k. I did it to test my room acoustics.
> 
> On room acoustics, it is a complex subject. All rooms have standing waves and room nodes. Basically the bass response especially is very dependant on how far back you sit from the 2 speakers. Imagine a power boat and the wake, the wake is an exact distance ratio v speed to the length of the boat. No matter how fast it goes. Audio waves do the same thing, and as the frequency goes lower the distance between the waves or 'dead areas' widens.
> 
> ...


 
 yeah, i'll check with some mono tones off the web. after i check my dac's xlr outputs...i've already been in touch with geoff. i'm 99% certain it isn't the amp. i'll have to find a stax dealer here to check the 007A if the rest of the equipment turns out ok. thanks all for your input.


----------



## HemiSam

kugino said:


> thanks! nice job with the faceplate design. the whole thing is very beautiful. my correspondence with geoff has been top-notch. he's been very helpful...
> 
> i think he shipped it on sunday and i got it half way around the world on wednesday.
> 
> now, the only problem...it seems my 007A has a channel imbalance. vocals localize at around 1:00. sigh...not sure what to do yet, but it's put a damper on things for a bit. anyone have any ideas?


 
  
 My fairly new 007A's from Japan developed a channel imbalance....once side much louder than the left.  Had to return them.  The new pair fortunately has exhibited no such problem after many hours of use.  It's a dip, but it happens...
  
 HS


----------



## milosz

karlgerman said:


> Make your Speakers near field, and you might get the best of both world´s! imo


 
 One of appeals of tall  planar speakers (Speakerlab, Magneplanar) and the various multi-driver tall arrays is that their SPL falls off  at 3 dB per doubling of distance as opposed to 6 dB for a point source; in addition reflections from floor and ceiling are much lower in amplitude at the listener's vicinity than the direct sound; hence the "nearfield" listening area of such vertical arrays is larger than typical monitor (point source) type speakers.
  
 With such tall speakers imaging is different - it's usually TALLER!  hahaha- and  some people don't like this effect, saying it portrays "giant violins"  etc.   Personally I prefer sound from tall arrays, for me the benefits of a bigger nearfield - less interaction with the room at mid and high frequencies - makes for a more detailed and involving experience.  But that's just me.
  
 That is, I prefer the sound during the daytime when I can listen to speakers.... at night I listen to Stax.


----------



## uchihaitachi

milosz said:


> One of appeals of tall  planar speakers (Speakerlab, Magneplanar) and the various multi-driver tall arrays is that their SPL falls off  at 3 dB per doubling of distance as opposed to 6 dB for a point source; in addition reflections from floor and ceiling are much lower in amplitude at the listener's vicinity than the direct sound; hence the "nearfield" listening area of such vertical arrays is larger than typical monitor (point source) type speakers.
> 
> With such tall speakers imaging is different - it's usually TALLER!  hahaha- and  some people don't like this effect, saying it portrays "giant violins"  etc.   Personally I prefer sound from tall arrays, for me the benefits of a bigger nearfield - less interaction with the room at mid and high frequencies - makes for a more detailed and involving experience.  But that's just me.
> 
> That is, I prefer the sound during the daytime when I can listen to speakers.... at night I listen to Stax.




Symphonic works on speakers are in their own league


----------



## Peti

Endless apologies for just interrupting the peaceful flow of this thread but I happened to have a chance to get ahold of a Stax combo for a relatively bargain pricetag and I thought that, for the first time in my life, would venture into the world of electrostatic headphones. I reside in the US and planning to purchase the SRM-1/MK-2 amp along with the 007, both second hand, straight from Nippon.
  
 (I'm aware that this particular amp is by far not the best match with the 007 but my other option would be some Stax tube amp and I, for reason I don't wish to go into, don't want to deal with tubes). My question is how can I make sure the amp will be suitable to be used from my eletric outlet over here? What device you folks use to get around this problem? I was told it makes a difference how one solve this aforementioned issue.
  

  
 Your opinions are much appreciated as I'm quite rookie when it comes to this subject. Thank you very much indeed!
  
 Enjoy your music,
  
 Peter


----------



## manywelps

peti said:


> Endless apologies for just interrupting the peaceful flow of this thread but I happened to have a chance to get ahold of a Stax combo for a relatively bargain pricetag and I thought that, for the first time in my life, would venture into the world of electrostatic headphones. I reside in the US and planning to purchase the SRM-1/MK-2 amp along with the 007, both second hand, straight from Nippon.
> 
> (I'm aware that this particular amp is by far not the best match with the 007 but my other option would be some Stax tube amp and I, for reason I don't wish to go into, don't want to deal with tubes). My question is how can I make sure the amp will be suitable to be used from my eletric outlet over here? What device you folks use to get around this problem? I was told it makes a difference how one solve this aforementioned issue.
> 
> ...


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/550284/stax-srm-1-mkii-ver-c-100v-220v-voltage-change-question
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/13830#post_6828663
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/13980#post_6926318


----------



## Tinkerer

manywelps has the best solution if you can solder at all. Changing the mains voltage of the SRM-1 Mk II is well documented. You just need to swap a couple of wires around in the back that go to the transformer. But it's also worth mentioning that you can use a stepdown transformer if you need an external solution. An okay one will cost you an extra $30-$40.


----------



## Peti

Very interesting. If I don't want to deal with soldering (lack of accessories & knowledge) a "stepdown transformer" would do the job without effecting negatively the sound of the headphones? If so, is there any such product in particular you guys would offer or all of them on the market would get the job done the same way?
  
 Thank you for the replies!
  
 P


----------



## Tinkerer

peti said:


> Very interesting. If I don't want to deal with soldering (lack of accessories & knowledge) a "stepdown transformer" would do the job without effecting negatively the sound of the headphones? If so, is there any such product in particular you guys would offer or all of them on the market would get the job done the same way?
> 
> Thank you for the replies!
> 
> P


 
  
 This was the one I got for my modded 12S amp, mostly because I'm not sure what they did with the replacement internal transformer and I didn't want to screw up the order of the jumpers. It's rated about 15 times what you need but it's built well and quiet and cheap.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000J1ANSY


----------



## audiokid

Re the 'new 507', I asked Symmetry in the UK (the distributer) and they informed me that there isn't a new 507 model, there's only one model, so perhaps the HiFi + review is incorrect?


----------



## astrostar59

peti said:


> Endless apologies for just interrupting the peaceful flow of this thread but I happened to have a chance to get ahold of a Stax combo for a relatively bargain pricetag and I thought that, for the first time in my life, would venture into the world of electrostatic headphones. I reside in the US and planning to purchase the SRM-1/MK-2 amp along with the 007, both second hand, straight from Nippon.
> 
> (I'm aware that this particular amp is by far not the best match with the 007 but my other option would be some Stax tube amp and I, for reason I don't wish to go into, don't want to deal with tubes). My question is how can I make sure the amp will be suitable to be used from my eletric outlet over here? What device you folks use to get around this problem? I was told it makes a difference how one solve this aforementioned issue.
> 
> ...


 

 I would say walk away. Another step-up transformer will affect the SQ and add problems of it's own. An oldSRM1 and an old 007 may well be knackered by now, no doubt used for years. The 007 if it is a MK1 has weak cable entry and the Stax fart issue. My advice, buy a new 007A from PJ (sounds great with the recent drivers BTW) and source a less old Stax amp locally than runs on your voltage.


----------



## labrat




----------



## astrostar59

labrat said:


> There was a new model introduced around 2011, that is the current model.
> Information received from the retailer here in Norway.


 

 Yes, but Stax DO change the drivers and don't tell anyone. I have seen photos of Lambda sized drivers looking like they are using the technology handed down from the 009. So,  maybe a new 507 'unofficially' 
  
 To underline this, I bought a recent 007A from PJ and it kills my 007 UK MK2 for sure. No reason from Stax, no fanfare. BUT it sounds much much better....


----------



## kazcou

peti said:


> Endless apologies for just interrupting the peaceful flow of this thread but I happened to have a chance to get ahold of a Stax combo for a relatively bargain pricetag and I thought that, for the first time in my life, would venture into the world of electrostatic headphones. I reside in the US and planning to purchase the SRM-1/MK-2 amp along with the 007, both second hand, straight from Nippon.
> 
> (I'm aware that this particular amp is by far not the best match with the 007 but my other option would be some Stax tube amp and I, for reason I don't wish to go into, don't want to deal with tubes). My question is how can I make sure the amp will be suitable to be used from my eletric outlet over here? What device you folks use to get around this problem? I was told it makes a difference how one solve this aforementioned issue.
> 
> ...


 
 It is a SRM-1 MK2 PP :
 For voltage mod/check you can use this link :
http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/5835#post_3902577


----------



## Peti

astrostar59 said:


> Another step-up transformer will affect the SQ and add problems of it's own.


 
 Yes, that's what I was worrying about. I've read about it already but without any further explanation. So, please, can you elaborate?
  
 P


----------



## Tinkerer

This whole conversation made me get up off my butt and finally look at my SRA-12S transformer seriously, especially since I'll have to do something similar when I hook up a DIY amp transformer in the future. The old transformer was replaced by a much bigger one, about the size that was in my SRM-727A or maybe a bit larger, which is good really, much higher quality than the original. Secondary windings were already hooked up properly so I just needed to figure out the right combination of primary windings. Turns out it had dual 117's so I just had to hook the two primaries in parallel and instant US voltage. Took like two minutes to fiddle with after I figured out what I had to do.
  
 I don't hear a lick of difference on my SR-007 personally, but it's one less thing to have plugged in.
  
 Long story short, that leaves me with a stepdown transformer I don't need anymore. Shoot me a PM and you can have it for nothing+shipping if you want.


----------



## Peti

Well, thank you guys for all the infos. I've learned a lot already.


----------



## preproman

Does anyone besides Peter have any impressions of the LL2T (Solid State)?  Peters impressions was great, I just want to know if more people feel the same as he does.


----------



## arnaud

It's official! 
http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/blog/?p=20418


----------



## crazychile

arnaud said:


> It's official!
> http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/blog/?p=20418


 
 SR-L700 cut sheet says 145,800 yen. That's about $1218 USD currently. That's not a bad price point, except STAX USA will probably have them priced around $2k.


----------



## yaluen

arnaud said:


> It's official!
> http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/blog/?p=20418


 
  
 Interesting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Looks like the housing is reworked and back foam/damping is no longer used?


----------



## Keithpgdrb

can't wait to hear about it.


----------



## mulveling

Awesome!! I know people smarter than me have explained how the plastic casing is going to problematic no matter how sweet the new driver elements are -- but I'm still excited to hear about how this sounds. Even though I have 009 and 007, I'd probably buy a pair if they sound great and have a good balance (e.g. not too bright).


----------



## labrat




----------



## Earspeakers

No loss on the internal foam (as long as the SQ is better overall), they deteriorate after some years and get in the drivers. 
  
 Driver takes design cues from the 009 I believe with the machined aluminum frame. Case looks like a much improved version in plastics and such. 
  
 Looking forward to getting one! The Lambda is a favorite of mine, I haven't had a compelling reason to get a 507 since I have a 307 which is the same driver, but a L700 looks like a worthwhile addition. Given the substantial price increase this is will share many qualities with the 009, but in a Lambda form factor.


----------



## PATB

Group buy!


----------



## Ali-Pacha

SL-500 looks like a SR-507 with rounder forks, no foam and deeper pads.
 SL-700 adds a new driver.
 SRM-353x = 30W, same as SRM-323s...looks like XLR are the only new feature.

 Ali


----------



## yaluen

On closer examination, the pads are now flat and not angled. Instead, the baffles are now angled.


----------



## Earspeakers

PriceJapan didn't know about it, Kaneda appreciated the heads up. He thinks it'll take 1-2 weeks to get an 'actual price' and be able to sell it. 
  
 I'm guessing it'll take longer than that.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Ha ha, you've asked him already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 SR-L500 looks like SR-507 price (74 kYen), but SR-L700 is far more expensive (146 kYen).

 Ali


----------



## Jones Bob

earspeakers said:


> PriceJapan didn't know about it, Kaneda appreciated the heads up. He thinks it'll take 1-2 weeks to get an 'actual price' and be able to sell it.




I'm waiting on the PJ queue too.


----------



## Earspeakers

I want one! I love the Lambdas (and the Omega, Sigma, 4070 is OK, 003, ennhhhhh)
  
 Yeah SR-L500 seems to be the new 507, SR-L700 the new top end, where does that leave 207/307/407/507?
  
 Traditionally I think Stax just drops the old lines (e.g. 303, 404, etc) in favor of new. But this would leave a hole in the line. I also assume they can't afford to have too many production lines.
  
 Otherwise I'd guess the 407/507/etc coalesce into just a 207 equivalent and a 407 equivalent for the low end.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

BTW, Stax has a new home since july 2015 : 
 http://www.stax.co.jp/relocate.html
 https://plus.google.com/112793682222078790955/about
 Google Streetview pictures are from march 2015, the building doesn't have any Stax mention.
  
 Former location :
It's here
  
 Ali


----------



## Earspeakers

Assuming it's the entire brick building (seems like it's not dual occupancy) then I think it's actually a larger building than the last one. Arnaud was at the last for the Stax factory tour, he could tell us. I'm just judging but the outside looks. If true then that's good news for their business. 
  
 Actually a picture from July is in there showing the new lettering on building, probably taken by somebody from Stax


----------



## Rossliew

So, the new lambdas are not for sale yet? Got a mate heading to Japan this month..


----------



## FUJIYAAVIC

STAX New models available end of October -

 STAX SR-L700 /SR-L500 /SRM-353X /SRS-5100

 Check our Blog

 http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/blog/?p=20418

 include STAX official press release PDFs(but Japanese).


----------



## catspaw

I hope the other models get cheaper due to this .
 I want to try an entry electrostat but price in Poland are hilariously high compared to Japan.


----------



## Rossliew

End October means 31 oct or can it be ordered earlier?


----------



## Michgelsen

earspeakers said:


> Yeah SR-L500 seems to be the new 507, SR-L700 the new top end, where does that leave 207/307/407/507?
> 
> Traditionally I think Stax just drops the old lines (e.g. 303, 404, etc) in favor of new. But this would leave a hole in the line. I also assume they can't afford to have too many production lines.
> 
> Otherwise I'd guess the 407/507/etc coalesce into just a 207 equivalent and a 407 equivalent for the low end.


 
  
 I think it actually makes sense to have a bit larger holes in the line, as you put it.
  
 Right now, the 2170 system or the 207 is the low-end model, which is fantastic for its money and I think it sells well. At least here in the Netherlands you see them for sale (second hand) quite often, and a lot of shops selling Stax have them on display.
 However, between the 307/407/507, there is a bit too much choice and a too large price difference for too little sound quality difference. For the customer, it doesn't really make sense to upgrade within the Lambda line. You see it often around here too: people own a Lambda system, want to upgrade and ask for advice, but then the only logical step is to jump to the 007 or 009. Hunting down different Lambda models will only move you sideways, not up.
 IMO, it would make much more sense for Stax to go back to three Lambda models: entry level (good, 207), better (L500) and best (L700), with hopefully some real improvements in sound quality when you go up the ladder.
  
 Then later, Stax could maybe also find a way to make fewer amp models. I think the 007t is a bit superfluous. Maybe they could have the entry-level 252s, the better 353X, then as an upgrade to that a better tube model than both the 006t and 007t, and maybe a high-end transistor model again, basically an upgraded 727. To bad the rumours around a new high-end amp have gone quiet. That would get them to four models instead of five, which should save some costs I guess. I don't know how well the different models are doing for Stax, so this might not make much sense to them. However, I do think it would get them a more coherent product line.


----------



## rgs9200m

Stax should just hire Spritzer at any cost, maybe move him to Japan, hire an assembly staff that he could oversee, slap a Stax badge on his amps, and drop their own amps.


----------



## wink

^  This...   in spades....


----------



## astrostar59

rgs9200m said:


> Stax should just hire Spritzer at any cost, maybe move him to Japan, hire an assembly staff that he could oversee, slap a Stax badge on his amps, and drop their own amps.


 
 I think mass producing high volage Stax amps at 50% mark-up is part of the problem. That, and the fact Stax is a relatively small company. But I do agree, they need some KG designs in there! The old 717 was loosely based on a KG design right (KGSS)?
  
 Or Stax should just admit they can't make an amp to match up to the 007 or 009. I am not sure if Senn can do it either looking at the 40K Marble block thingy they are playing with, - real world prices please.


----------



## zolkis

If they managed to make the new top Lambda sound less hard and fuller in the mids, more fluid on the highs, and more defined in the sub-bass, I am interested (yeah, and what else do I want for that price?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 [ Slightly offtopic: this news about the new Lambda line came just when I managed to have a breakthrough with my 007 earpad mods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 Bass at a new level of definition and impact, larger sound stage, more open mids and highs, much improved timing and rhythm, higher perceived musical resolution.
 When listening to the bare drivers I never thought this was possible. The 009 drivers seemed so much better - and I could not improve the 009 much with earpads, except slight bass improvement on the expense of neutrality.
 I've spent the past nights rediscovering my music. Goosebumps on the beauty of tones, harmonic naturalness, resolution, and that tactile, deep, physical bass. I barely wait the evenings .
 I risk saying it's now better than the HE-1000 in all areas, including sub-bass, where the HE-1000 is much less defined, although a bit higher in volume. I still prefer my 007 there, since it tricks me better for hearing instruments and not recording. It sounds more dynamic and better in the bass than my modded TH900, which is no weakling at that. I also like it more than the 009, which has only one advantage left for me: it's slightly more open still, and more neutral. But much less fun. Speakers are much less fun as well nowadays - the purity and richness of tone through the 007 is shocking. Will update the mods thread soon. So all this is possible with electrostatic tech. I am deeply impressed. I hope one can get all, or much of these goods with the new models... ]
 So the Lambda upgrade is good news on its own, but especially because hopefully the 009 will also get an upgrade soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## rgs9200m

Stax is stuck in a situation where the lack of brand-name amps hampers their Headphone sales. They really need a good amp or 2 with the Stax name on it. It would be different if a company like Luxman or Accuphase or even McIntosh offered one, but they don't, so the consumer who wants a system from a company with a decent commercial footprint is left in an awkward position and can end up with a sub-par Stax amp or probably avoids Stax phones entirely, which is a shame, because they are so good. Where is Elon Musk when you need him?


----------



## zolkis

Stax is a niche market, no one expects high volumes with Stax energizers, so not many reasons for doing that for Luxman, Accuphase and others. DIY territory. We can be so grateful to KG.


----------



## rgs9200m

zolkis said:


> Stax is a niche market, no one expects high volumes with Stax energizers, so not many reasons for doing that for Luxman, Accuphase and others. DIY territory. We can be so grateful to KG.


 
 Amen.


----------



## Jones Bob

rgs9200m said:


> Stax should just hire Spritzer at any cost, maybe move him to Japan, hire an assembly staff that he could oversee, slap a Stax badge on his amps, and drop their own amps.




Then who would bake the bread to feed the people of Iceland?


----------



## comzee

jones bob said:


> Then who would bake the bread to feed the people of Iceland?


 
 I think Dunkin' Donuts has that covered 


Spoiler: Pic


----------



## rgs9200m

Well, maybe for some people headphones are the staff of life.


----------



## En_R

astrostar59 said:


> . But I do agree, they need some KG designs in there! The old 717 was loosely based on a KG design right (KGSS)?.




I laughed so hard at this


----------



## bmichels

zolkis said:


> .....but especially because hopefully the 009 will also get an upgrade soon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I hope also


----------



## Earspeakers

I disagree with the sentiment that "Stax Stuff Suxs". I love the Mafia designs and am building every single one, but I don't see them as the end all. Don't forget that the T2 is still considered the pinnacle of Stax amplifier design. For the common Stax amplifiers, if you aren't hearing what good SQ they have to offer than you're not using a well matched headphones, or I'd say your not appreciating what they are doing well. Stax is not trying to sell us crappy amplifiers!
  
 The second point is that people don't appreciate what it takes to produce a commercially viable product at a price point. With these volumes Stax has to have probably a 50% markup. So a $1k amplifier has to be less than $500 in parts and labor. That's not easy! Certainly Stax couldn't hire Birgir "at any price". At any rate you can bet that Stax has engineering/design expertise equal if not better than anybody else. 
  
 Finally I'd point out that why should Stax be producing a lot of ultra high end products, when there's a thriving 3rd party marketplace? There's the Mafia amps, BHSE, Woo, and I know of a third high end amp being designed right now by another party. And these offerings cost many thousands of dollars and serve a niche of the ultra-high end deep pocketed listeners. Before anybody mentions the KGST I'll point out that uses obsolete parts (6S4 for one). 
  
 /soapbox


----------



## dogrelata

Hi,
  
 I’ve been stalking Head-Fi for some months now and am neither an audiophile nor techie, so feel a bit guilty about finally joining, as I have nothing to contribute in terms of knowledge or expertise.  I am a respectably good runner, though; so may be able to offer some tips in return for the advice I’m about to seek
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 I’m a long time Lamba Pro owner, having bought them way back in 1990.  About 12 or 13 years they went out of commission and I only started using them again about 3 years ago, by which time I’d stopped listening to vinyl and become another victim of the ‘sitting at my computer with itunes shuffle running in the background’ brigade.  As a non-audiophile I make no excuses for that and can say I’m enjoying listening to music as much as I ever have.  To compound matters, there are no hi-res files lurking on my hard drive; only CD rips and MP3s. 
  
 I am currently running the following kit.  A 10-year-old PC, Chordette Qute DAC, Ion Nexus SP1 per-amp along with X-Pak 2 power supply, SRD-X pro energizer and the Lambda pros.  The SRD-X has a dodgy volume control so it is now set to full and the Nexus controls volume.
  
 In the most part I’m really happy with the sound, listening mostly to the broad genre that is rock/indie.  But I’m getting to that age where my hearing is starting to deteriorate and find that if I want to turn the volume up on occasion, ‘chasing the detail and dynamics’ on a darker, denser rock track, the sound can become too harsh, with some of the (digital?) glare I’ve read about on some posts.  As a point of reference, the Nexus volume control is stepped to 30.  I generally listen at around 5, maybe going as high as 8 if my ears can stand it.
  
 Aside from the PC and itunes, I imagine the weakest link in the chain is the SRD-X.  I was wondering if an SRM-323S would be worth considering.  I live in the Scottish Highlands, hundreds of miles from any ‘proper’ hi-fi dealers so any purchase I decide to make will almost certainly be made ‘blind’.  I should also say I have an irrational aversion to anything tube – all heat and hassle to my uninitiated mind.
  
 I should also have mentioned I’ve never really had any issues with the frequently referred to e-stat ‘deficiencies’ – brightness and lack of bass weight.  I do have a set of HD-650, which are decent phones, but for me they are no match for the Lambdas.  Incidentally, I note from reading parts of this thread there doesn’t appear to be an awful lot of love for these old Lambdas, even among the ‘Stax community’, so maybe I’m easy to please in that respect
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 My non-techie thoughts were that the additional power offered by the 323S might eke out more detail, especially at lower listening levels with the darker/denser sounds mentioned earlier.  Might that be the case?
  
 Whilst the above is my first upgrade option, I have to ask myself if I should be spending any money at all on a pair of 25 year old cans.  The alternative is to look at the Mr Speakers Ethers, which are just about affordable.  If it’s not heresy to mention non-Stax, does anyone have any thoughts about these as a possible replacement?
  
 Thanks in advance for anyone who wishes to offer any thoughts.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Most of my Stax are vintage, so... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If your Lambda Pro are flawless, maybe you don't need to look for something else. Stax gear is pretty durable.
 A propos amplifier, have a look at SRM-252s. Small, far better than SRD-X/P, and cheap.
  
 Ali


----------



## dogrelata

Thanks Ali.
  
 What would you say are the differences that might be heard with the 252S?


----------



## milosz

JansZen developing electrostatic headphones - crowdfunding discount info...  
See  http://www.head-fi.org/t/782955/janszen-developing-electrostatic-headphones-crowdfunding-info


----------



## DougD

The iFi Audio Pro iCan amplifier, which is apparently very close to release, has long had a teaser about having an electrostatic add-on.
  
 Quote: "Optional Electrostatic Headphone Energiser in separate Box will be introduced, 1,700V Peak-Peak maximum output, Bias selectable for Stax HiFi/Pro, Sennheiser and others, Output Levels selectable, 3 * Stax Pro & HiFi Sockets fitted" .... which is the only description I've seen. A picture released 5 days ago of the backpanel shows a connector annotated as being the "Connector for Electrostatic module." No ETA for this module AFAIK. 
  
 This thing is described as an "energizer." I have a Stax SRD-7 energizer that drives my SR-X Mk 3, and the combo sounds very good to me. But I have never heard a designed electrostatic amp in a comparative listening setting, so I very literally don't know what I'm missing.
  
 Has anyone ever published measurements of a TOTL conventional amp in its natural mode vs adding an energizer into the loop? I haven't looked hard but I've not seen anything on this. The conventional wisdom is pretty clear, but I'm curious about what any actual measurements says about the degradation of SQ. (Not that I think all aspects of listenable amp quality is necessarily directly attributable to measurements.)  
  
 My thought in asking this is basically wondering "for the budget-constrained music lover aspiring to TOTL Stax cans, can an energizer provide a decent interim solution for a couple of years, while saving funds for a great dedicated amp like a KG* or the BHSE" ?


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Just saw the new Lambda series link, and I can only think one thing: maybe the SR-009 will have a successor soon


----------



## Jodet

I called elusivedisc.com to ask about the SR-L700 and SR-L500.  
  
 They didn't know anything about them.    
  
 Supposedly they're supposed to be out in October.    
  
 I sold my 507's three or four years ago for HD800's, no regrets.   But I like the Stax sound and could be persuaded to get another pair if the reviews on these are good and the price isn't too crazy. 
  
 Who else is a good Stax dealer?


----------



## comzee

jodet said:


> Who else is a good Stax dealer?


 
 If you want a US warranty here
 If you want to save money here


----------



## Jodet

comzee said:


> If you want a US warranty here
> If you want to save money here


 
  
 That's a LOT of money to save.   I'd be tempted to go the 'save money' route except that I wonder about even getting paid service for gray market goods.  Or does pricejapan have its own service department? 
  
 And did Stax ever fix the 'channel imbalance' problems they were having a while back?


----------



## labrat




----------



## Music Alchemist

I really, really love STAX, so I might as well join in here.
  
 I've shared some of this info elsewhere, so please bear with me if you've seen my posts in the past. I don't mean to make this another one of those annoying "wish list" posts; it's mainly for future reference for those who are not familiar with my experiences.
  
 Even the SR-207 sounded more transparent and realistic to me than the most expensive non-electrostats like the AB-1266, HE1000, HE6, and HD 800. For a long time I had wanted to simply collect them all, but since I honestly wasn't all that impressed by these summit-fi headphones (from very powerful high-end amps and using my own test tracks in most genres, mind you), yet was in awe of entry-level STAX (SR-30 too), it makes more sense for me to just focus on high-end electrostats save for a handful of more affordable headphones that excel at specific things.
  
 Seriously considering getting both the SR-009 and SR-L700 sometime in the next month or two. Lambdas hold a special place in my heart. Even if it's nowhere near as good as the SR-009 (though I heard it has a similar sound signature), I may end up preferring it with some music, and more importantly, it's good to have a backup.
  
 Next year and beyond, I'd like to add the SR-007, SR-007MK2, SR-Ω, SR-Σ Pro, QUAD Jecklin Float QA, Sennheiser Orpheus HE 90, and Sennheiser Orpheus 2 (whatever it ends up being called) to the collection. I feel that I would personally get more enjoyment from this than diversifying with planar magnetics and so on.
  
 Although I would only start out with a STAX SRM-323S amp, I have no problem with eventually upgrading to the TOTL electrostat amps like the BHSE, DIY T2, and Nanotube. I'm drooling over that original STAX SRM-T2 (sold together with an SR-Ω for over $20K) on eBay too.
  
 Oh, and the only reason I would even dream of spending so much money on headphone systems is that I prefer headphones over speakers.
  
 I for one hope the SR-009 is not replaced soon, and I see no evidence to indicate such a development.
  


jodet said:


> Or does pricejapan have its own service department?


 
  
 If you need warranty service for a product purchased from PriceJapan.com, you would have to send it to PJ, who then sends it to STAX for repair or replacement. This process can take weeks or months. That's another reason why I think it's a good idea to have at least one backup electrostat. For those who live in the US, buying from PJ is a convenient alternative to paying a premium to STAXUSA.com, and we don't have outrageous import fees like some countries do.


----------



## richard51

i prefer my Fostex th7b ( 60 dollars) to my basic  lambda nova Stax headphone +srm 252s.... that illustrate well the disparities of opinions here... Someone prefer to the HEK the stax basic system... and me i prefer  the cheap Fostex to the  Basic Stax...question : is the HEK inferior to the  cheap Fostex ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i hope someone will not throw me in the jail of the barbarian headfier ...
  
  
 Perhaps i am a bit provocative about all that.... evidently the stax are the better system, but the rendering of the instrumental timbre by Fostex th 7 b is extraordinary for the price...i can listen to them without reverse to the Stax... Its simply another world... Each of us had the tendencies to prefer something and not other thing... Why? objective reasons?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The truth is that.... my 3 systems are so good now... i listen to them typing that, i cannot choose between the Fostex , the stax, the he 400, too much different , too much  likeable for distinct reasons...i want to choose, i cannot....Where is the perfect headphone please ?


----------



## Tinkerer

music alchemist said:


> I really, really love STAX, so I might as well join in here.
> I'm drooling over that original STAX SRM-T2 (sold together with an SR-Ω for over $20K) on eBay too.




That T2 is blown way out of normal price. That's the very same one that sold on yahoo!japan for less than $3500 earlier this year. The guy is flipping it for crazy money. There's been three or four original omegas sold there this year for $2000 and less too.


----------



## Music Alchemist

tinkerer said:


> That T2 is blown way out of normal price. That's the very same one that sold on yahoo!japan for less than $3500 earlier this year. The guy is flipping it for crazy money. There's been three or four original omegas sold there this year for $2000 and less too.


 
  
 Good to know! (Though I did know in a general sense that the Japanese Yahoo! Auctions was one of the best sources for rare STAX.)
  
 Don't know of any other original T2s out there, though, do ya? (Oh, the cruelty of the market.)


----------



## SoliloCey

Is that guy who fixes STAX cables still around?


----------



## Tinkerer

solilocey said:


> Is that guy who fixes STAX cables still around?




I think the way the strain relief is molded to the cables, you can only replace the cable completely. But anyone who can solder half decently should be able to do that if they know how to open up the headphones. When I replaced the one in my SR-007's, I know the hardest part for me was getting over the fear of opening up something so expensive and delicate. But once I did, it was actually all laid out nice and neat on the inside.


----------



## SoliloCey

tinkerer said:


> I think the way the strain relief is molded to the cables, you can only replace the cable completely. But anyone who can solder half decently should be able to do that if they know how to open up the headphones. When I replaced the one in my SR-007's, I know the hardest part for me was getting over the fear of opening up something so expensive and delicate. But once I did, it was actually all laid out nice and neat on the inside.


 
  
 I don't trust myself with soldering in the slightest.


----------



## Tinkerer

Yeah, I didn't exactly mean it that way. Just saying that anyone who can solder should be up to the job if they have the information on how the headphone is put together. You don't need a specialist.


----------



## SoliloCey

tinkerer said:


> Yeah, I didn't exactly mean it that way. Just saying that anyone who can solder should be up to the job if they have the information on how the headphone is put together. You don't need a specialist.


 
  
 Oh ok. I use to remember a guy that re-cabled anyone's STAX back here in 2008-09. I think he lived in Iceland, and had Brian Griffin as his avatar. _*shrugs*_
  
 You mentioned that you had the lovely SR-009's while I have a SR-303, so I don't know how different they are. Well I'll see what I can do or find. The real issue is the cable has been left on an angle over the years that it now has to be in that position for both sides to work, if I alter it I lose the whole right side. That's what's bothering me. This tends to happen to me often. At least with my DT-250 you can just buy replaceable cables which I'm really happy about.


----------



## Tinkerer

Basically you need one of these http://www.electromod.co.uk/stax-spares/cables/cord-assembly-sr303/ and somebody to solder it on for you. And some double sided tape to remount the ear pads or new ear pads. Hell, I'd do it for you for free but the shipping back and forth to Australia would be half as much as the cable itself. And that's slow mail.

EDIT: The black cable version is about half that price but then the color won't quite match.


----------



## labrat




----------



## SoliloCey

labrat said:


> I think you might be referring to user "spritzer" in Iceland, he is still around!
> Or you can get a new cable as you have been guided to get, and go ask an electronic repair shop in your own home area, they should be able to replace the cable for you at a cost.
> Depending how old and worn your earpads are, maybe you should also buy new ones and have them replaced at the same time?
> These are also available at the same site as the cable replacements.
> But do ask the people in the repair shop if they do know about STAX first, if not call another shop!


 
  
 That name rings a bell actually. My ear pads are okay but the left one is getting a habit of moving a little. I sort of logged back in for this, and to see if there is any good deals in the classifieds. 
  
 Also is it suppose to be Lab Rat or La Brat? I thought it was latter first.


----------



## labrat




----------



## n3rdling

Are there any places in the US or Japan that sell Stax cable assemblies?  So far I've only found them at electramod.


----------



## vapman

tinkerer said:


> Yeah, I didn't exactly mean it that way. Just saying that anyone who can solder should be up to the job if they have the information on how the headphone is put together. You don't need a specialist.


 
  
 if you think the average person capable of soldering is up to the job of repairing stax cables you're dead wrong. that'll go over real nicely as someone's first or second soldering job


----------



## astrostar59

vapman said:


> if you think the average person capable of soldering is up to the job of repairing stax cables you're dead wrong. that'll go over real nicely as someone's first or second soldering job


 

 Whoaaa calm down. I have replaced the cables on my 007MK2s and it was fiddly and small wires, but very possible for anyone who has decent eyesight and a steady hand.
  
 Nobody with those attributes would be lost on that, so please please, don't scare people.
  
 To be really scared, a woman in the UK (is 85) was in a light 2 man aircraft. The pilot passed out, and she had to take the controls and be talked down by the air traffic. Bear in mind she didn't have a pilots license, not even a driving license! Anyway, after nearly 20 tries she made a perfect landing.
  
 Try DIY stuff, don't be scared.....


----------



## vapman

astrostar59 said:


> Whoaaa calm down. I have replaced the cables on my 007MK2s and it was fiddly and small wires, but very possible for anyone who has decent eyesight and a steady hand.
> 
> Nobody with those attributes would be lost on that, so please please, don't scare people.
> 
> ...


 

 My point is maybe you shouldn't tackle fine pitch solder point wire which lets ~500 volts flow through it right right next to your face unless you can solder & desolder thru hole with ease. If you can't install a capacitor comfortably, you SHOULD be scared of soldering to a Stax wire, if you have any concern for your or your headphones' safety. He said he's not comfortable with soldering and I don't blame him for not wanting to do a dozen projects first just so he can do his Stax comfortably.
  
 Heck i'm confident enough to build my own KGSS and I don't want to mess with Stax cable. Actually, i probably don't want to do my own stax cable because I know what's at risk!


----------



## labrat




----------



## sensui123

preproman said:


> Does anyone besides Peter have any impressions of the LL2T (Solid State)?  Peters impressions was great, I just want to know if more people feel the same as he does.


 
  
 I'd like to see if anyone has anything further to add about this subject.  I'm wanting to moving onto electrostats (stepping out of my comfort zone) and would like to do it right.  Wanting to get the Sr-009 but am deciding what to pair with....the BHSE or the LL2T/LL2TU.  If anyone has comments/experiences please weight in.  It's been a tough search with random tidbits left and right on the internet....nothing I can definitely piece together comparing the 2.  Thanks in advance.


----------



## bmichels

sensui123 said:


> I'd like to see if anyone has anything further to add about this subject.  I'm wanting to moving onto electrostats (stepping out of my comfort zone) and would like to do it right.  Wanting to get the Sr-009 but am deciding what to pair with....the BHSE or the LL2T/LL2TU.  If anyone has comments/experiences please weight in.  It's been a tough search with random tidbits left and right on the internet....nothing I can definitely piece together comparing the 2.  Thanks in advance.


 
  
 At CanJam London, I heard the SR009 with the BHSE, and for me it was clearly the BEST SOUND of the Show... So If I ever buy a SR009, it will be with a BHSE.


----------



## Jodet

Is anyone else extremely whomped up about the SR-L700?    Trickle down tech from the 009 for $1500?   Cannot wait till these start shipping....


----------



## potkettleblack

jodet said:


> Is anyone else extremely whomped up about the SR-L700?    Trickle down tech from the 009 for $1500?   Cannot wait till these start shipping....


 

 Can you link any reviews or comparisons for these mate?


----------



## Jodet

They're not out yet.   Google finds some pics and some Japanese stores selling them, but no hard details yet.  
  
 What I've heard is end of October.


----------



## preproman

bmichels said:


> At CanJam London, I heard the SR009 with the BHSE, and for me it was clearly the BEST SOUND of the Show... So If I ever buy a SR009, it will be with a BHSE.


 

 Check with Justin, there might be some still available.


----------



## bearFNF

potkettleblack said:


> Can you link any reviews or comparisons for these mate?


 

@longbowbbs put up some pictures and a short impression of the new phones from Stax in the CanJam impressions thread.
 Start here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/782818/2015-canjam-rmaf-impressions-thread-october-2-4-2015/45#post_11967268
 and read the next few posts of his for all the info he posted.


----------



## Music Alchemist

jodet said:


> Is anyone else extremely whomped up about the SR-L700?    Trickle down tech from the 009 for $1500?   Cannot wait till these start shipping....


 
  
 Like I mentioned earlier, I was considering getting one along with the SR-009...but now I think it might be better to just wait until any potential issues arise with the SR-009, in which case I actually would need a backup. All the impressions I've read so far say that it basically sounds like the SR-009, except obviously not as good.


----------



## labrat




----------



## Music Alchemist

labrat said:


> How do you know " ..it basically sounds like the SR-009, exept obviously not as good.  "  ??
> No one have listened to it so far, no one have tried to compare?


 
  


longbowbbs said:


> I was listening to it on the same 727 that the 009 was plugged into. It has a smaller soundstage than the 009. Similar detail and presentation. I bet they sell a bunch of them.


 
  




  
 Also, it uses the driver technology from the SR-009, but altered to fit into the Lambda frame.


----------



## mangler

Love it if they would use the 007 driver tech in a lambda too


----------



## Music Alchemist

mangler said:


> Love it if they used the 007 driver tech in a lambda too


 
  
 I got excited about this post and didn't notice the "if" part. XD


----------



## rgs9200m

Yep, the 009 is a phone where I say I can't live without this phone. Not sure exactly why, but that's the way it is; gut feeling here... (Maybe this counts as a twitter review. Was that < 240 characters?)


----------



## comzee

Not sure if the S-002 gets any praise, but I friggin love these things.
 I ordered them before ordering my 009's, to get a feel for estats. I wanted to get a general idea before taking a multi-thousand dollar plunge.
 Funny thing is, I got impatient and ordered the 009's before even getting the 002's.
  
 I don't have a ton of perspective, because I've owned a limited number of headphones.
 For example, I should be comparing them to headphones in the $200-$400 range, although I've never listened to any headphones in that range.
  
 A few things that are kinda similar in price I've extensively tried, the HD598 and ATH-M50.
 The 002's clearly blow these out of the water. The clarity is, craaaazy. More dynamics, a bit more soundstage, better tonality. Basically patently better in all ways, some things better then others. Better bass too! They have a precision that nothing can even come close to in this price range.
  
 The surprising thing for me, is they have *slightly *better mid range *clarity* over my HD800's. The 800's have better everything else in mid range, tonality, soundstage etc..
 Highs and lows, the 800s do have better clarity, and everything else of course. Even this small victory for the 002's is crazy, to me at least.
  
 I use them exclusively at work, which they're exceptional for. Small footprint, portable if need be, unassuming, coworkers aren't going to hassle you about it (to a layman they look like any other IEM). Unless you're listening to them at extremely loud volumes, they surprisingly don't let any sound out, being an open design.
  
 There's one crippling thing about them... for most people they won't be comfortable for long listening sessions, or at all. The way they're designed for an IEM is bad. I can't blame STAX, assumed, they are required to have that huge circle back to accommodate an estat driver. Another caveat, is they absolutely need to be completely sealed in your ear. Zero air can escape, or it will significantly reduce bass and general listenability. Again, because of the design, this would be quite hard for most people. Oh, and forget about using the tips they come with, worst tips I've ever seen.
  
 They do come with a headband, that will keep them in your ears. Two things about them, they actually increase the IEM footprint, because they add a few mm on all sides, making them (at least for me) too big to fit into my ear, and hurt if wearing more then 10 minutes. They also (probably because I have a giant head) push them into your hears, which also hurts. Basically the only good thing they're for, is if you really don't want them falling out of your ears, good for working out etc..
  
 My roommate with smaller ears (I would say more average) couldn't wear them with or without the headband for longer then 20 minutes.
  
 Luckily for me, they almost perfectly fit into my ears without the headband. The outer ridge of the circle actually locks into my earlobe, crazy. This pictures illustrates


Spoiler: here






 
 A few more pics:


Spoiler: here



 



  


Spoiler: and here



 



  
 I was motivated to write this, because the 002s don't seem to get any attention.
 I mean, my 009s are what I expected. 10% better soundstage, clarity, etc.. then my HD800. It didn't blow me away, because honestly the 800s are already top tier. It's like going from a Porsche 911 to a Ferrari 598. Yea it's better, but it's not the same as the first time you ever stepped into a super car. I don't have these just an example 
 There are things the 800s do better then the 009s, I'll leave it at that


----------



## PATB

How does the lambda series (e.g., SR-L700 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) compare to the SR-009 in terms of size?  I am currently at the maximum setting of the headband for the SR-009.  While I find the SR-009 very comfortable (second only to my HD650/HD800), anything smaller would not fit my noggin.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rgs9200m said:


> Yep, the 009 is a phone where I say I can't live without this phone. Not sure exactly why, but that's the way it is; gut feeling here... (Maybe this counts as a twitter review. Was that < 240 characters?)


 
  
 I read your positive impressions of cables in the past. Would you care to share some thoughts about how various cables (for example, Stefan AudioArt Endorphin) perform with a transducer as resolving as the SR-009? Oh, and specify which type of cables you are referring to, if you please.
  
 (To any "objectivists" reading this, I am well past the point of wasting time caring about "everything sounds the same" claims.)
  


comzee said:


> Not sure if the S-002 gets any praise, but I friggin love these things.
> 
> [...]
> There are things the 800s do better then the 009s, I'll leave it at that


 
  
 By the way, "S-002" is a typo on STAXUSA.com. It actually does have the "SR-" in front like the others.
  
 Do tell! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


patb said:


> How does the lambda series (e.g., SR-L700
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


 The SR-009, SR-507, SR-L500, and SR-L700 all have the click-style headband, whereas more affordable Lambdas have a suspension headband without the clicks. The ear pads of the Lambdas are naturally more narrow, but also taller, as you can see. The size and shape of your ears will determine your comfort level.


----------



## comzee

music alchemist said:


> Do tell!


 
 It's actually two advantages that have the potential to be disadvantages, soundstage and resolution.
  
 On some recordings it unnaturally separates instruments.
  
 On other recordings it resolves too much, revealing things you don't want to hear, and can almost make a recording unlistenable. Things like peaks in volume can go staticy, most likely came out of the studio and never tested with speakers that resolved like the 009s, so they missed it. Again, because of resolution, apart from mixing/mastering defects, you can simply hear things that were never intended to be heard.
  
 A really good example is solo piano works (which I listen to quite often). Excuse my laymans terminology, but it's the felt part hitting inside the piano.
 Avril 14th by Aphex Twin intentionally exaggerates this, if you want to know what I'm talking about. That sound shouldn't be heard in a normal piano recording.
  
 Bottom line, there's songs I simply don't want to listen to with the 009s. The 800s at least have the potential to sound good on any song, I've spent easily 2000+ hours listening to the 800s, so many different songs / genres.
  
 On the flip side, there's songs on the 009s that sound simply magical like I've never heard before.


----------



## Jones Bob

The SR-003 plugged in a KG amp is a surprisingly good sounding HP too.


----------



## Music Alchemist

comzee said:


> It's actually two advantages that have the potential to be disadvantages, soundstage and resolution.
> 
> On some recordings it unnaturally separates instruments.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for offering your perspective.
  
 Personally, I'm not much of a fan of the HD 800. I auditioned it on a MOON Neo 430HA and also briefly on a Sennheiser HDVD 800. Both amp/DACs sounded the same to me. I listened for hours using my own test tracks in most genres. My main problem with the HD 800 is brightness and harshness. I was in physical pain whenever there was high frequency content in the music. Never in real life do instruments have this type of artificial brightness and harshness. As for digital instruments, well, very few producers would be so incompetent as to make certain high frequencies sound as overly emphasized as the HD 800 makes them sound. In fact, on one STAX system I owned in the past, I turned the treble knob _all the way up_ on the speaker amp I was using to drive it with, and it _still_ wasn't as painfully bright and harsh as the HD 800 was. I would definitely have to use EQ, modifications, and/or perhaps even a warm tube amp to make the HD 800 tolerable for me. Aside from that, it sounded excellent, though it was missing a bit of mid-range and the bass was on the weak side. I read about how with some amps, the bass can be stronger. Not sure how that works, because the amps I used were extremely powerful.
  
 The STAX SR-207 (which I owned) is easily more neutral than the HD 800. (I can provide an in-depth analysis of the measurements upon request.) Doesn't have _any_ of the frequency response issues the HD 800 does. More importantly, the SR-207 sounded far more transparent to me. What it gave up on technicalities was hardly noticeable, simply because it sounded so much more realistic. I liked the SR-207 far, far more than the HD 800 with virtually all music.
  
 Anyway, all headphones can benefit from EQ, modifications, and so on. From my experience, more people say the SR-009 has the best resolution, so it would be interesting to compare them under more equal conditions, ie after both headphones have been equalized to have a frequency response as close to neutral as possible. I have no problem with resolution. I want to get as close as I can to hearing everything that is in the recording, but without mistaking artificial detail for resolution. (I'm not necessarily implying that the HD 800 is not more resolving, though; just that it has problems in the FR that can distract from that.)
  
 I see that you also have the JVC HA-SZ2000. What a coincidence! I already got the HA-M55X in order to use its pads for the SZ2000. Looks like you could be a full-time audiophile / part-time basshead like me!


----------



## comzee

music alchemist said:


> [...]
> Looks like you could be a full-time audiophile / part-time basshead like me!


 
 Not to offend, but the SZ2000 are the worst headphones I've ever listened to. I bought them based on the massive bass headphones thread here on Head-fi, listened to them for about 4-5 hours total, I've owned them for over a year. I bought the upgraded ear pads for them too. It's like putting a wool blanket over your eyes.... I mean I love bass that's why I bought them. But yea....

 I previously owned a pair of Denon D1100 (One of their models before they sold out) and those were amazing for bass.
  
 As far as the remarks on the HD800s, I agree with all your assessments, although I think you had a bad beat with them. The HDVD specifically (even though it's made by Sennheiser) is a trash amp for them. Waaaay to bright.
  
 Also, the HD800 are hyper finicky. Amp+source makes such a massive difference.
 For example, for a long time I used a PCM5102 dac implementation with them, so bad.
 R2R dacs with the hd800 are magic, simply put. Tube amps for the HD800 are magic, simply put.
  
 I feed mine through my Maser7 + WA7 tube amp, not an ounce of sharpness or fatigue.
 It doesn't hurt that I've burned them in forever, I think they really started to lose the harshness around 500+ hours of use.
  
 Just so I don't derail this STAX thread, a bit more comparison.
 Logically, estat drivers wouldn't need the same level of burn in as dynamic drivers, if at all. So what you hear is what you get right out of the box.
  
 Right now, my 009s are brighter (but not fatiguing) to my 800s.
 It's funny actually, everybody online says the 800s are clinical, I find this to be much truer of the 009s.
 I mean, HDVD + delta-sigma dac + low burn in 800s sound like torture.


----------



## Music Alchemist

comzee said:


> Not to offend, but the SZ2000 are the worst headphones I've ever listened to. I bought them based on the massive bass headphones thread here on Head-fi, listened to them for about 4-5 hours total, I've owned them for over a year. I bought the upgraded ear pads for them too. It's like putting a wool blanket over your eyes.... I mean I love bass that's why I bought them. But yea....
> 
> I previously owned a pair of Denon D1100 (One of their models before they sold out) and those were amazing for bass.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Even the most dedicated SZ2000 owners (actually, especially them) can tell you that it's worthless without EQ. Most of them at least boost the bass, but with more pinpoint EQ, it can improve the overall sound beyond just having ultimate bass impact.
  
 Well yeah, of course the SR-009 from a neutral-ish solid-state amp is going to be brighter than the HD 800 from a warm tube amp. You'd have to use neutral electronics to properly compare the stock tuning of the headphones themselves. (And if you want to test their absolute capabilities, you'd then have to get into EQ, mods, and so on.) But it's certainly a good thing that the HD 800 can improve so much from certain components.


----------



## sensui123

Yeah.  I can't give any real feedback to STAX but I'll comment on what I know about the HD800.  Once upon a time I had a Schiit Mjolnir/Gungnir combo and ran the HD800 with that....was pretty horrified.  I shelfed my HD800 into the closet and it never saw the light of day until I sold off the Schiit stuff and moved on to other sources and amps.  Right now the HD800 is paried with the DNA Stratus and I used to (moved the Hex to work, still waiting for replacement @ home) listen to it with a Metrum Hex.....this sounds REALLY great.  Definitely a beast that can be tamed and the best part of it is, the analytical parts are all there still for the details.  I did also go with a pure OCC Copper cable as well for the HD800 and that actually did seem to help also to my surprise (I was a real skeptic on this one).  I enjoy the HD800 out of the Liquid Glass amp also but the favorite pairing by far is with the DNA stratus....it's as if that amp is made for that headphone imo.


----------



## Jodet

sensui123 said:


> Yeah.  I can't give any real feedback to STAX but I'll comment on what I know about the HD800.  Once upon a time I had a Schiit Mjolnir/Gungnir combo and ran the HD800 with that....was pretty horrified.  I shelfed my HD800 into the closet and it never saw the light of day until I sold off the Schiit stuff and moved on to other sources and amps.  Right now the HD800 is paried with the DNA Stratus and I used to (moved the Hex to work, still waiting for replacement @ home) listen to it with a Metrum Hex.....this sounds REALLY great.  Definitely a beast that can be tamed and the best part of it is, the analytical parts are all there still for the details.  I did also go with a pure OCC Copper cable as well for the HD800 and that actually did seem to help also to my surprise (I was a real skeptic on this one).  I enjoy the HD800 out of the Liquid Glass amp also but the favorite pairing by far is with the DNA stratus....it's as if that amp is made for that headphone imo.


 
  
 I see the DNA Stratus is $2700 now.   Good God.   Didn't it used to be under $1500????


----------



## sensui123

jodet said:


> I see the DNA Stratus is $2700 now.   Good God.   Didn't it used to be under $1500????


 
  
 Not to my knowledge....maybe you're thinking of the Sonnett?  Donald actually is working on a refined version of the Stratus called the Solaris for next year.....supposed to be $6k hah.  I'm lucky I'm close to him so that's definitely something I'd have to audition to see the improvements over the Stratus.


----------



## Jodet

sensui123 said:


> Not to my knowledge....maybe you're thinking of the Sonnett?  Donald actually is working on a refined version of the Stratus called the Solaris for next year.....supposed to be $6k hah.  I'm lucky I'm close to him so that's definitely something I'd have to audition to see the improvements over the Stratus.


 
  
 The Sonnett at $1500 gives way to $2700 which gives way to $6k?  
  
 Yikes.   Donald thinks very highly of his gear.   I miss the days when $1500 was an expensive headphone amp.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Glad I'm focusing totally on electrostats now when it comes to high-end stuff. Otherwise, it would be even more costly to build separate "ultimate" systems.


----------



## comzee

sensui123 said:


> I enjoy the HD800 out of the Liquid Glass amp also but the favorite pairing by far is with the DNA stratus....it's as if that amp is made for that headphone imo.


 
 Yea, tubes amps really are what's good for it. Tyll said it best, the HD800+good amp is a beast setup, if you really want the 10% more, you'll have to pay 3x more. Think he mentioned this in his Bigsound 2015.
  
 I mean, he1000 for $3k, lcd-4 for $4k, 009 for $4.6k (ignoring PJ).
 Price versus performance out the door.
  
 HD800 is not only the best headphones for $1500, it really stands its own against anything out there.
 I think in these high end forums they're simply underrated.
  
 HD800 $1.5k + Good source $1k + Good amp $1k = world class system for roughly $3.5k.
  
 Or you could spend $2.3k for dac + $3-4k for an amp + $3k for 009, and get maybe 10% overall better quality, for roughly $9k, yea... If you're rich it's all fun and games, otherwise I hold more respect for the HD800 then anything out there.


----------



## sensui123

Yeah....I realized the potential of the HD800 through some respected head fi'ers (well by me anyway lol) opinions and started to follow suit because I didn't want it to go to waste.  The first step was the cable....went with the Copper Venom from Toxic Cable and thought skeptical...I noticed an immediate difference in the overall tonality of the headphone on the Mjolnir.  Still was't enough though and I knew I had to change up my gear in a major way to take advantage of things.  That's when I fell in love with the Metrum dacs for their smooth/easy listening signature and funded the Liquid Glass to roll different tubes for the HD800.  The Stratus was a blind buy (never heard but one head fi'er that's very critical swore by it with his hd800) but it paid off big time and Donald's been a gentleman to deal with when we met up.  My mother inlaw that knows nothing about this gear listened to the HD800+Stratus+Hex combo for hours on a recliner comfortably so I think it's safe to say I've tamed that beast.  
 The recent expenses of totl headphones like Abyss and LCD-4 almost sold me....but the more impressions I read the more I was let down and decided to follow the electrostat rabbit hole like the rest of you.  Might as well if you're spending that kind of $$ and I'm always down for new experiences.  I'd hate to pay that much $$ on the Abyss or LCD-4 to only get a 5% increase in enjoyment over my current headphones......
 Please continue your discussions, I'll be quietly reading and learning whatever I can.  Thanks!


----------



## preproman

comzee said:


> Yea, tubes amps really are what's good for it. Tyll said it best, the HD800+good amp is a beast setup, if you really want the 10% more, you'll have to pay 3x more. Think he mentioned this in his Bigsound 2015.
> 
> I mean, he1000 for $3k, lcd-4 for $4k, 009 for $4.6k (ignoring PJ).
> Price versus performance out the door.
> ...


 
  
 Yes, the HD800 is a real bargain at it's price point.  However, it doesn't seem fair to say the HD800 + a $1K source + $1K for an amp is a world class system?  Surely that system won't be considered world class.
  
 Then you give the 009s a DAC that cost $2.3K - why?  Sure the amp will cost you more.  However, for a would class system both the HD800 and the 009 will require an amp that cost more than $1K for sure.  So the cost is really between the "cans"


----------



## nassq8

comzee said:


> Yea, tubes amps really are what's good for it. Tyll said it best, the HD800+good amp is a beast setup, if you really want the 10% more, you'll have to pay 3x more. Think he mentioned this in his Bigsound 2015.
> 
> I mean, he1000 for $3k, lcd-4 for $4k, 009 for $4.6k (ignoring PJ).
> Price versus performance out the door.
> ...


 
  
 Sure as long as your disposable income is allowing, audiophile quest will never end. Otherwise, this game can end at a relatively cheaper level, for me at least:
  
 $1600 = Mr. Alpha prime/HE-400 + HiFi-M8 LX 
  
 At such price,  a respectable level of audiophile experience for both open and close worlds can be achieved.


----------



## purk

comzee said:


> Yea, tubes amps really are what's good for it. Tyll said it best, the HD800+good amp is a beast setup, if you really want the 10% more, you'll have to pay 3x more. Think he mentioned this in his Bigsound 2015.
> 
> I mean, he1000 for $3k, lcd-4 for $4k, 009 for $4.6k (ignoring PJ).
> Price versus performance out the door.
> ...


 
 I personally think that you need a better amp than that before the HD800 can start competing with the SR009.  However, if you know what you are looking for then you can buy a used flagship amp from yesteryear for around $1.5K that make the HD800 really shine.
 Also, you don't really need to spend $3-4K to amp the SR009.  The KGST is pretty stellar at or around $2000.  That alone will bring the price down a good bit.  When you compared a total price of difference system, the cost of the front end source should be the same.  So difference is now $2000 less.  I'm in an agreement with you though that the HD800 is quite a bargain at the asking price, especially when compared to the HE1000.  I did audition the Ether and it was a really good headphones but the HD800 is better in my book if you have the right amp for it.  Now you can even get a refurblished HD800 from Headroom now for less than $1000 shipped with full warranty.


----------



## comzee

Yea, without a doubt you can go cheaper on a Stax amp. The KGST was a great example. 
  
 As for having a world class system at 3.5k, I think it is very possible. One thing that does help, is Audio-GD just released a "Master 11". It's a Master 7 (Their best DAC) and Master 10 (Their best amp) together for $2k. 
  
 They actually took the tech from those top end devices too, they didn't compromise. The word is that the M11 has exactly the same SQ, if not better, then the M7, and it comes with a damn good amp. I have an M7, I have a Yggy, the M7 is world class. You can name the best on one hand, Theta/Audio-GD/Schiit/MSB Tech all world class, some better then others. 
  
 I would pit a M11 + HD800 against any system.
 It might not have the extreme resolution of Stax, or the bass impact of Audaze, the purity of HiFiMan, but god damn does it come close. Relative to the entire ecosystem of headphones that is. Some people will say the difference between HD800s and 009s is miles, but if you're comparing only hyper cars, that BMW M5 doesn't look so good. I mean, 3.6 seconds 0-60 for $100k, or 3.1 second 0-60 for $500k?


----------



## purk

comzee said:


> Yea, without a doubt you can go cheaper on a Stax amp. The KGST was a great example.
> 
> As for having a world class system at 3.5k, I think it is very possible. One thing that does help, is Audio-GD just released a "Master 11". It's a Master 7 (Their best DAC) and Master 10 (Their best amp) together for $2k.
> 
> ...


 
 Also don't forget that you also left the SR007 out of the equation here.  The SR007 is not any lesser than the SR009 when you able to get some good amp behind it.  That alone places the the SR007 as the real deal in term of the bargain in headphones world IMO.  After owning the HE1000 for the last couple of months, I actually gain a lot more respect toward the HD800.  Of course, I have a great amplifiers  to drive them.  I would take a hard look at the ECP DSHA-2 whenever it becomes available.  I have the DSHA-0 (prototype) and it such a great amp, exceeding the GSX-MKII by a noticeably margin.  It better than the ECP L2 as well..


----------



## Music Alchemist

comzee said:


> I would pit a M11 + HD800 against any system. It might not have the extreme resolution of Stax


 
  
 Didn't you say you think the HD 800 has better resolution than the SR-009?


----------



## comzee

music alchemist said:


> Didn't you say you think the HD 800 has better resolution than the SR-009?


 
 No, I said an advantage of the 009s was it had the best resolution, but on some recording it can be a negative.


----------



## Music Alchemist

comzee said:


> No, I said an advantage of the 009s was it had the best resolution, but on some recording it can be a negative.


 
  
 Oh, my bad. I misinterpreted what you said. It's just that I was originally asking about things you felt the HD 800 does better than the SR-009, to which you replied: soundstage and resolution.
  
 That's a good thing for me, then. I want maximum resolution.


----------



## MacedonianHero

music alchemist said:


> Oh, my bad. I misinterpreted what you said. It's just that I was originally asking about things you felt the HD 800 does better than the SR-009, to which you replied: soundstage and resolution.
> 
> That's a good thing for me, then. I want maximum resolution.


 
  
 No other headphone will give you that "maximum resolution" like the SR-009s. At least none that I've come by.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

macedonianhero said:


> No other headphone will give you that "maximum resolution" like the SR-009s. At least none that I've come by.


 
  
 It's crazy talk like that that scares me!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've managed to steer clear of Stax so far, and it hasn't been easy.  One day, one day.


----------



## MacedonianHero

bigfatpaulie said:


> It's crazy talk like that that scares me!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## preproman

comzee said:


> Yea, without a doubt you can go cheaper on a Stax amp. The KGST was a great example.
> 
> As for having a world class system at 3.5k, I think it is very possible. One thing that does help, is Audio-GD just released a "Master 11". It's a Master 7 (Their best DAC) and Master 10 (Their best amp) together for $2k.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry to say, but the Master 11 is a compromise.  The Master 7 has 8 DAC chips, the Master 11 only has 4.  He stacks the DAC chips for a reason.  I owned the Master 7 on two different occasions  and I would take the Master 7 over the Master 11 any day.  The Master 11 is not a Master 7..
  
 Audio-gd does not fit under the world class umbrella, they fit more under the value umbrella - just like Schiit audio.   There's way more stuff out there to consider them world class.


----------



## Music Alchemist

preproman said:


> Sorry to say, but the Master 11 is a compromise.  The Master 7 has 8 DAC chips, the Master 11 only has 4.  He stacks the DAC chips for a reason.  I owned the Master 7 on two different occasions  and I would take the Master 7 over the Master 11 any day.  The Master 11 is not a Master 7..
> 
> Audio-gd does not fit under the world class umbrella, they fit more under the budget umbrella - just like Schiit audio.   There's way more stuff out there to consider them world class.


 
  
 Here's my silly/crazy DAC plan.
 Now: nothing! =D (Because I didn't hear a difference between my laptop and a Schiit Modi 2.)
 Soon: JDS Labs The Element (Because it's an amp/DAC I can use with non-electrostats too.)
 Next year or perhaps later this year: Schiit Yggdrasil (Because I've heard so many great things about it that I can't ignore it.)
 When I'm rich: MSB SELECT DAC + Femto 33 Clock + 2 Single SELECT Power Bases (Because it's "the best"...supposedly. For ~$120K, it better be! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## comzee

preproman said:


> Sorry to say, but the Master 11 is a compromise.  The Master 7 has 8 DAC chips, the Master 11 only has 4.  He stacks the DAC chips for a reason.  I owned the Master 7 on two different occasions  and I would take the Master 7 over the Master 11 any day.  The Master 11 is not a Master 7..
> 
> Audio-gd does not fit under the world class umbrella, they fit more under the budget umbrella - just like Schiit audio.   There's way more stuff out there to consider them world class.


 
 Based on your post count, and the gear you have and have owned, I'll say you have a better grasp on this.
  
 I read reviews all day because I haven't owned many things myself. I'm just going by the general consensus. 
 I know a few people were saying the SQ on the M11 was the same as the M7, and even a few more people were saying it was better over in those threads.
 They also specifically mentioned the subtraction of 4 pcm chips didn't effect it?
  
 As far as the world class title, semantics? I'm always finding new audio companies, so I could be off base here.
 I don't know anything about turntables or other devices, but in the DAC world, I've researched quite a bit.
  
 Unless there's some other company out there doing crazier stuff, I've heard MSB Tech dacs are the best?
 I read a review between the MSB select IV / MSB Analogue / Yggdrasil, the reviewer said the MSB stuff was better, but nothing to write home about.
 Based on my experiences between the M7 and Ygg, I'd say the M7 is one of the best out there? Yea Ygg / theta / msb is better, but is there anything else?
  
 I mean, I haven't heard a fraction of stuff out there, just lots o' reviews. Depending on the people that wrote those reviews, I could very well have a skewed outlook.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

comzee said:


> Based on your post count, and the gear you have and have owned, I'll say you have a better grasp on this.


 
  
 Well, as long as you approve his message.


----------



## joseph69

Hello,
  
I'm possibly interested in buying the Stax SR-009…can anyone tell me if they are made in Japan or in China these days?
 From what I've researched a Chinese company took them over in May 2011 but I'm still not sure if the current (NEW) SR-009 is made in Japan or China and a Chinese company owns them. If they are now made in China is there any difference in SQ/BQ from the SR-009 made in Japan?   
  
 Thank you,
 Joseph


----------



## wink

Japan.


----------



## Music Alchemist

joseph69 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm possibly interested in buying the Stax SR-009…can anyone tell me if they are made in Japan or in China these days?
> From what I've researched a Chinese company took them over in May 2011 but I'm still not sure if the current (NEW) SR-009 is made in Japan or China and a Chinese company owns them. If they are now made in China is there any difference in SQ/BQ from the SR-009 made in Japan?
> ...


 
  
 The only thing that is different now is the ownership, basically. As far as the operation of the company (a small group in Japan) goes, nothing has changed.


----------



## joseph69

wink said:


> Japan.


 


music alchemist said:


> The only thing that is different now is the ownership, basically. As far as the operation of the company (a small group in Japan) goes, nothing has changed.


 
 Thank you both very much for the information!


----------



## Sorrodje

Seems there's more truth about the HD800 in the Stax thread than in the HD800 thread . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . World's getiing crazy !


----------



## wink

Quote:Sorrodje 





> Seems there's more truth about the HD800 in the Stax thread than in the HD800 thread .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The Stax SR007 and SR-009 are better than the HD800 overall as long as the Staxen are driven by a top class amp. But what would I know..?   This is the HD800 thread, and the HD800 is one of my favourite headphones.


----------



## Music Alchemist

wink said:


> The Stax SR007 and SR-009 are better than the HD800 overall as long as the Staxen are driven by a top class amp. But what would I know..?   This is the HD800 thread, and the HD800 is one of my favourite headphones.


 
  
 Sorry for turning the STAX thread into the HD 800 thread, guys.


----------



## Amleth

Could someone please link me to a post or page detailing the "Spritzer mods" for the 727 I've heard mentioned here and there? I tried searching but only turn up posts about modded amps for sale in the classifieds. Someone pointed me to the Head-Fi search engine linked at the start of the "Orthodynamic Roundup" thread to try that, but the linked page doesn't load for me (or possibly anyone else anymore?).


----------



## Tinkerer

It's really simple.
  
 http://i.imgur.com/mUlKf4y.jpg


----------



## catspaw

Hmmmm,
 My plan was to wait for the multibit Bifrost and get it after I got my Steam VR and a Stax 2010-4010, but unfortunatelly I expected the multi bifrost on 2016.
 The train came a bit too fast.
 Good thing I am a patient guy, or Id be counting the hours left to be able to afford the multi brifrost. (as It is, I only count months .).


----------



## Music Alchemist

catspaw said:


> Stax 2010-4010


 
  
 Never heard of "STAX 2010/4010"...closest I know of are the SRS-2170, -4170, -2020, and -4040 systems.
  
 Here are the in-production ones:
  
 https://www.staxusa.com/system/


----------



## Amleth

> Originally Posted by *Tinkerer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> It's really simple.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/mUlKf4y.jpg


 
  
 Thanks. So I wouldn't need to buy any components? Only needs two short lengths of solid wire and solder to perform?
  
 I'm living in Japan for a bit and the prices here v.s. back home have me thinking of jumping into high-end Stax. From what I can gather, buying a used 727 on Yahoo Auctions and modding it would be the most affordable option to drive a set of 009s "well"? With VR about to be a thing I feel I can finally justify splurging on a really nice headphone setup, and it would seem a waste not to take advantage of the local pricing given this stuff is about twice as much back home new, and the used market is essentially non-existent...


----------



## Tinkerer

Yeah, just be careful not to damage the resistors or you will need to buy new ones.


----------



## mulveling

comzee said:


> I read reviews all day because I haven't owned many things myself. I'm just going by the general consensus.
> 
> Unless there's some other company out there doing crazier stuff, I've heard MSB Tech dacs are the best?
> I read a review between the MSB select IV / MSB Analogue / Yggdrasil, the reviewer said the MSB stuff was better, but nothing to write home about.


 
 I was new to head-fi around 2003-ish, and I remember reading a review/impressions of an RME sound card vs. a Meridian 508 CD player -- and I'm paraphrasing from memory, but basically it said the RME sounded about as as good as the Meridian, the latter of which seemed impossibly expensive and high-end to me at the time. So I bought that RME sound card and fiddled with all the ASIO/etc hoops you had to jump through to get bit perfect playback on Windows 2000; to this day I remember it as one of the worst sounding sources I've ever heard. A year later I heard a Meridian 588 CD player, and to my ears at the time it was absolutely sublime -- the first good sounding digital I'd experienced.
  
 Now whenever I read a reviewer's claim that a piece of budget gear sounds "almost as good as" or "doesn't get embarrassed by" or "holds its own" against some high-water mark high-end gear, I just laugh out loud. Longer-term impressions from hobbyists (i.e. no real financial interest) who've experienced a lot of gear are usually the only ones of value. E.g. I listen to Purk


----------



## ahnafakeef

Probably should have asked before placing the order, but is the delta-sigma Gungnir a good enough match for an SR-009 and an SRM-323S? Thank you.


----------



## Jones Bob

ahnafakeef said:


> Probably should have asked before placing the order, but is the delta-sigma Gungnir a good enough match for an SR-009 and an SRM-323S? Thank you.


 

I listened to my SR-009 with a D-S Gungnir and KGST for 6 months before I got my Yggy. The D-S Gungnir was very enjoyable with that combo.


----------



## Jodet

Anyone using a Woo GES to run their Stax? 
  
  
http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wastax.html
  
  
 It's only about $750 more than a 323s.   I'm thinking of the new SR-L700.


----------



## preproman

jodet said:


> Anyone using a Woo GES to run their Stax?
> 
> 
> http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wastax.html
> ...


 

Schematic re-engineering is based on Dr. Gilmore's design.

 Interesting.


----------



## Jodet

preproman said:


> Schematic re-engineering is based on Dr. Gilmore's design.
> 
> Interesting.


 
  
 Dr. Gilmore?   That's a dead link, FYI....


----------



## preproman

The link being dead is not what's interesting.  It's what it says.  I've heard a while back that the amp was not that good.  What are the impressions of the amp after the re-engineering?


----------



## mulveling

ahnafakeef said:


> Probably should have asked before placing the order, but is the delta-sigma Gungnir a good enough match for an SR-009 and an SRM-323S? Thank you.


 
 The 323 will be the weak link in that system by a long-shot. And the 009 will do just fine with delta-sigma DACs unless it or your amp is bright sounding -- that said, the new multi-bit Gungnir looks tasty.
  
 Once you get 009, then you should be immediately focused on acquiring any KG<anything other than plain SS>-type amp, unless you can spring for a BHSE (in which case lucky you, and I hope you're either going used or are extremely patient).


----------



## VandyMan

purk said:


> Also don't forget that you also left the SR007 out of the equation here.  The SR007 is not any lesser than the SR009 when you able to get some good amp behind it.


 
 For me, on the BHSE, the 007 sounds rather veiled compared to the 009.


----------



## Music Alchemist

jodet said:


> Anyone using a Woo GES to run their Stax?
> 
> http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wastax.html
> 
> It's only about $750 more than a 323s.   I'm thinking of the new SR-L700.


 
  
 Here's a great thread to read through:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/569024/question-about-amps-for-the-stax-sr-009
  
 If you're not planning on upgrading to the SR-009, then a TOTL amp is less important. However, for the price of the GES, you'd be better off getting a better amp on the used market.
  


mulveling said:


> The 323 will be the weak link in that system by a long-shot. And the 009 will do just fine with delta-sigma DACs unless it or your amp is bright sounding -- that said, the new multi-bit Gungnir looks tasty.
> 
> Once you get 009, then you should be immediately focused on acquiring any KG<anything other than plain SS>-type amp, unless you can spring for a BHSE (in which case lucky you, and I hope you're either going used or are extremely patient).


 
  
 *raises hand* I'm springing for a BHSE! (And possibly DIY T2, Nanotube, and the list goes on.)
  
 ...Except I want to get one brand new with no wait period from the international market. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 (Before then, I'm just gonna use an SRM-323S as well. Don't mind not having the best sound right off the bat.)
  
 Oh, and in case many people here aren't aware of the Nanotube, it's Kevin Gilmore's newest DIY design!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/774767/nanotube-the-newest-electrostatic-amp-by-kevin-gilmore
  


vandyman said:


> For me, on the BHSE, the 007 sounds rather veiled compared to the 009.


 
  
 Ya know, I've read all the comparisons between those two headphones that I could find, and there seem to be two camps of thought, even in the context of TOTL amps. One (the majority) says that the SR-009 is far superior. The other (the minority) says that the SR-007 is better despite the aspects that some view as inferior. The way I see it, if you're getting the SR-009, getting the SR-007 too (even multiple versions of it) is easy enough. In terms of aesthetics, I like the gold champagne one with brown pads, and the black SR-007MK2 even more, although it's not supposed to sound as good.


----------



## Jodet

Got an email from Stax USA this morning.   They say the new stuff will be here early November, price info soon. 
  
 The SR-L700 will replace the 507's 'in a few months' by which I'm guessing you'll be able to buy either for awhile but long term no more 507's. 
  
 The 500 will replace 'the lambda line' - I'm guessing they mean the 407? 
  
 The 323X has better s/n, more extended frequency response and xlr - will replace the 323S. 
  
 And so we wait.


----------



## VandyMan

> Ya know, I've read all the comparisons between those two headphones that I could find, and there seem to be two camps of thought, even in the context of TOTL amps. One (the majority) says that the SR-009 is far superior. The other (the minority) says that the SR-007 is better despite the aspects that some view as inferior. The way I see it, if you're getting the SR-009, getting the SR-007 too (even multiple versions of it) is easy enough. In terms of aesthetics, I like the gold champagne one with brown pads, and the black SR-007MK2 even more, although it's not supposed to sound as good.


 
  
 If you get a chance, go to the HeadAmp table at a meet. They usually have the 007 and 009 being driven by a BHSE. Great opportunity to hear them side by side. I think that the clarity/transparency I hear is the same quality that other hear as brightness, but that is just a guess. I don't personally hear any brightness except if it is from the source material. I do agree that the 007 has _slightly _better bass.  If you have the money, by all means get both. I'd rather spend the dough elsewhere like on on my BHSE (on order) or better headphones for use at work, rather than having two TOTL headphones in my living room fighting for time on my head. But those are my own priorities, of course. I'm not a collector and I find the idea of switching headphones for different music, about as appealing as switching speakers would be.


----------



## karlgerman

The only reason i still own a 007 is that i read in some user reports the 007 could be a better pairing to a BHSE.
 I also have a KGSS from spitzer which sound brighter than my BHSE and i thought that maybe is a upgrade in detail for the 007. 
  
 But really, for my taste the 009´s clarity is outstanding. No way to achieve this with any amp i own on a 007mkII.
  
 So its nice to use both big STAX headphones for comparing and do some testing on your own.
 But in the end the 009/BHSE is my favorite choice and as i got used to this quality of sound all the other (007, 4040 lambda) Headphones had to stay in their case.


----------



## Music Alchemist

jodet said:


> Got an email from Stax USA this morning.   They say the new stuff will be here early November, price info soon.
> 
> The SR-L700 will replace the 507's 'in a few months' by which I'm guessing you'll be able to buy either for awhile but long term no more 507's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you want to save some money, you should email PriceJapan.com about the SR-L700.
  
 The SR-507 will allegedly be replaced by the SR-507 II. Perhaps you could ask STAXUSA.com whether this is true.
  
 http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/stax-sr-507-ii-earspeakers-and-srm-006ts-kimik-energiser/
  
 (Disregard the nonsense in that article about STAX not being loud enough for metal. LMAO)
  
 SRM-3_5_3X. Here's the link again:
  
 http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/blog/?p=20418
  


vandyman said:


> If you get a chance, go to the HeadAmp table at a meet. They usually have the 007 and 009 being driven by a BHSE. Great opportunity to hear them side by side. I think that the clarity/transparency I hear is the same quality that other hear as brightness, but that is just a guess. I don't personally hear any brightness except if it is from the source material. I do agree that the 007 has _slightly _better bass.  If you have the money, by all means get both. I'd rather spend the dough elsewhere like on on my BHSE (on order) or better headphones for use at work, rather than having two TOTL headphones in my living room fighting for time on my head. But those are my own priorities, of course. I'm not a collector and I find the idea of switching headphones for different music, about as appealing as switching speakers would be.


 
  
 Yeah, we all have different priorities. I only listen to music at my computer desk, so I don't need to compromise. But I don't go to meets. I just buy stuff. hehe


----------



## mulveling

karlgerman said:


> The only reason i still own a 007 is that i read in some user reports the 007 could be a better pairing to a BHSE.
> I also have a KGSS from spitzer which sound brighter than my BHSE and i thought that maybe is a upgrade in detail for the 007.
> 
> But really, for my taste the 009´s clarity is outstanding. No way to achieve this with any amp i own on a 007mkII.
> ...


 
 To me, a KGSS or KGSShv that sounds brighter than a BHSE has gone awry somewhere in the build. I've heard KGSShv builds with a subtle warmth to them (both 500V and 450V versions) that pairs sublimely to the 009 -- and then others builds which are not so much that (and of course these builds pair relatively better with the 007). I still like the 009 with those amps mind you, just not nearly as much (I just really really like the 009). It wouldn't surprise me if the Inner Fidelity Big Sound results not being heavily in favor of the 009 are the result of a brighter-sounding ES amp -- it's sad that they have a bajillion freaking dynamic amps and only one Stax amp (with a bajillion jacks); my experience is that electrostatic amp selection is more critical than with dynamics. And of course the 009 paired with a bright amp is not going to sound neutral -- it's going to sound bright!
  
 The Headamp BHSE is a known consistent quality and a badass amp, no doubt. It is not an inherently warm sounding amp, though (lovely midrange, though).


----------



## purk

mulveling said:


> To me, a KGSS or KGSShv that sounds brighter than a BHSE has gone awry somewhere in the build. I've heard KGSShv builds with a subtle warmth to them (both 500V and 450V versions) that pairs sublimely to the 009 -- and then others builds which are not so much that (and of course these builds pair relatively better with the 007). I still like the 009 with those amps mind you, just not nearly as much (I just really really like the 009). It wouldn't surprise me if the Inner Fidelity Big Sound results not being heavily in favor of the 009 are the result of a brighter-sounding ES amp -- it's sad that they have a bajillion freaking dynamic amps and only one Stax amp (with a bajillion jacks); my experience is that electrostatic amp selection is more critical than with dynamics. And of course the 009 paired with a bright amp is not going to sound neutral -- it's going to sound bright!
> 
> The Headamp BHSE is a known consistent quality and a badass amp, no doubt. It is not an inherently warm sounding amp, though (lovely midrange, though).


 
 I'm with you completely on the whole Innerfidelity thing.  Justin's BHSE would definitely yield better outcomes for those two Stax headphones.  His BHSE+Stax pairing often get The best of the Show awards.  Of course, a full sized KGSSHV (not KGSS) will likely able to drive the SR009/007 better than what Tyll had on hand.  I don't know the extent of that soup-up KGSS, but I think the KGSSHV full-size might be a better match to those headphones.  Only Birgir can fill us in on that.  Of course, Its Birgir's generosity in the first place for offering that amp to Tyll..otherwise he would have nothing beside the SRM-727II on hand to drive them....and both Stax headphones will definitely do much much worst.


----------



## mulveling

purk said:


> I'm with you completely on the whole Innerfidelity thing.  Justin's BHSE would definitely yield better outcomes for those two Stax headphones.  His BHSE+Stax pairing often get The best of the Show awards.  Of course, a full sized KGSSHV (not KGSS) will likely able to drive the SR009/007 better than what Tyll had on hand.  I don't know the extent of that soup-up KGSS, but I think the KGSSHV full-size might be a better match to those headphones.  Only Birgir can fill us in on that.  Of course, Its Birgir's generosity in the first place for offering that amp to Tyll..otherwise he would have nothing beside the SRM-727II on hand to drive them....and both Stax headphones will definitely do much much worst.


 
 Well they certainly went all out sourcing different dynamic amps and DACs (which as blind tests confirm, sound more similar to each other than amps do). Why not a similar effort sourcing ES amps, especially when ES headphones are generally regarded as top-of-the-heap?


----------



## purk

mulveling said:


> Well they certainly went all out sourcing different dynamic amps and DACs (which as blind tests confirm, sound more similar to each other than amps do). Why not a similar effort sourcing ES amps, especially when ES headphones are generally regarded as top-of-the-heap?


 
 Very true.  The retail price of that soup-up KGSS is probably less than Justin's GSX MKII alone.  That alone validateshow great Stax really are given that it can keeps up with more expensive dynamic system.


----------



## ahnafakeef

jones bob said:


> I listened to my SR-009 with a D-S Gungnir and KGST for 6 months before I got my Yggy. The D-S Gungnir was very enjoyable with that combo.


 
  
  


mulveling said:


> The 323 will be the weak link in that system by a long-shot. And the 009 will do just fine with delta-sigma DACs unless it or your amp is bright sounding -- that said, the new multi-bit Gungnir looks tasty.
> 
> Once you get 009, then you should be immediately focused on acquiring any KG<anything other than plain SS>-type amp, unless you can spring for a BHSE (in which case lucky you, and I hope you're either going used or are extremely patient).


 
 Thanks for your responses, guys.
  
 How much are the KG** amps? And on which site are they listed for sale?
  
 Also, which amps (that don't cost an atrocious amount) are the best for an SR-009? I'd like a top ten list sort of thing, if that's not too much of an imposition to ask for.
  
 Thanks again.


----------



## mangler

ahnafakeef said:


> Thanks for your responses, guys.
> 
> How much are the KG** amps? And on which site are they listed for sale?
> 
> ...




Check out http://www.mjolnir-audio.com . He and Kevin Gilmore (KG) work on the amp designs together (I believe), so his amps are the real deal, and build quality is top notch. I used to have one, but sold it after selling off my Stax, but I've been kicking myself ever since, especially now that the L700 sounds promising


----------



## ahnafakeef

mangler said:


> Check out http://www.mjolnir-audio.com . He and Kevin Gilmore (KG) work on the amp designs together (I believe), so his amps are the real deal, and build quality is top notch. I used to have one, but sold it after selling off my Stax, but I've been kicking myself ever since, especially now that the L700 sounds promising


 
 Say what you will, but the product listing on that site is very ambiguous. They've just highlighted the prices, but I can't tell which price is for which product.
 ----------------------------------------------------
 Anyway, where can I get wooden headphone stands and a cover for an SR-009? I've seen their official site but they have it listed for $200. Can I get the same thing for less from some other site?

 Thank you.


----------



## preproman

ahnafakeef said:


> Say what you will, but the product listing on that site is very ambiguous. They've just highlighted the prices, but I can't tell which price is for which product.
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Anyway, where can I get wooden headphone stands and a cover for an SR-009? I've seen their official site but they have it listed for $200. Can I get the same thing for less from some other site?
> 
> Thank you.


 

 You can try ebay..


----------



## Jones Bob

Or for less money, Price Japan.


----------



## rgs9200m

ahna-- get the KGSS-HV mini. It sounds really great with the 009. This amp + 009 is a truly great system and a real bargain for it's combination of musicality, resolution, natural sound, and lack of fatigue. A forever system IMO. I *hate* brightness or screaming upper mids/vocals and this system pass this test with flying colors. (The Stax amp did not pass this test.)


----------



## Jones Bob

Stax SR-L700 now on presale at PJ. Shipping October 23rd.


----------



## Jodet

jones bob said:


> Stax SR-L700 now on presale at PJ. Shipping October 23rd.


 
  
 Well that's a tad discouraging.   PJ lists the 507 at $568, so the U.S. price is about 40% more.  
  
 If we add 40% to the $1207 they're asking for the SR-L700 that puts it at about $1700.    A tad more than I was hoping but what the heck.  
  
 Stax USA told me updates to their webpage were coming in a week so maybe we'll know soon.  
  
 I'm looking at either the 700's or a pair of Ether C's.


----------



## Music Alchemist

ahnafakeef said:


> Say what you will, but the product listing on that site is very ambiguous. They've just highlighted the prices, but I can't tell which price is for which product.
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Anyway, where can I get wooden headphone stands and a cover for an SR-009? I've seen their official site but they have it listed for $200. Can I get the same thing for less from some other site?
> 
> Thank you.


 
  
 The photos are shown, then the corresponding description for that product is listed below each set of photos.
  
 The HPS-2 and CPC-1 are available from PriceJapan.com for lower prices than from STAXUSA.com, but you have to order them as add-ons at the time of purchasing other STAX items. From what I understand, you already purchased the SR-009 and SRM-323S from them. Perhaps you could email them and say that you would like to add those items to your order, if it's not too late.
  
 Also, STAXUSA.com is the site of their American distributor, Yama's Enterprises. STAX.co.jp is the official STAX website.
  
 But where is this $200 price you're getting?
  
 https://www.staxusa.com/accessory/stax-hps-2.html
 https://www.staxusa.com/accessory/stax-cpc-1.html
  
 They're $145 altogether from those links.
  


jones bob said:


> Stax SR-L700 now on presale at PJ. Shipping October 23rd.


 
  
 Not much higher than I was anticipating.
  


jodet said:


> Well that's a tad discouraging.   PJ lists the 507 at $568, so the U.S. price is about 40% more.
> 
> If we add 40% to the $1207 they're asking for the SR-L700 that puts it at about $1700.    A tad more than I was hoping but what the heck.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The savings isn't the same for each product. For example, one day, awhile ago, I compared the savings for all the products.
  
 SRM-007tII (as SRM-007tA): 2150 - 1183 = 967 = 44.97% off
 SRS-2170: 790 - 452 = 338 = 42.78% off
 SRM-006tS: 1325 - 783 = 542 = 40.9% off
 SRM-323S: 875 - 528 = 347 = 39.67% off
 SR-009: 4450 - 2717 = 1733 = 38.94% off
 SR-507: 925 - 576 = 349 = 37.73% off
 SRS-4170: 1775 - 1117 = 658 = 37.07% off
 SRS-3170: 1250 - 791 = 459 = 36.72% off
 SRS-005SMK2: 725 - 473 = 252 = 34.76% off
 SR-003MK2: 350 - 245 = 105 = 30% off
 SR-407: 520 - 381 = 139 = 26.73% off
 SRS-002: 565 - 416 = 149 = 26.37% off
 SR-307: 425 - 322 = 103 = 24.24% off
  
 The prices fluctuate due to currency exchange rates.
  
 You'll have to wait until the product is live on STAXUSA.com to know the US price. But why not just import from Japan?


----------



## n3rdling

Don't expect the L700 to sound like "a mix between the 009 and Lambdas" just because it looks that way.  It'll still sound very much like a Lambda because the driver shape is the same, the enclosure is basically the same, and the pads are basically the same.  The stator bracing will help a bit in reducing distortion and improving imaging precision.  Personally, I'm not too excited about the new products.


----------



## preproman

So is there going to be a SR-507 MKII and the SR-L700, SR-L500 as the new models?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Way I see things :
 - SR-207 hold still
 - SR-L500 replace SR-507, 307 and 407 flushed away
  
 SR-L700 are by far the most expensive Lambdas of all time, and pricing dangerously next to SR-007A/mk2. Not sure it's very wise from Stax since Lambda enclosure is still there and has its flaws.

 Ali


----------



## Ali-Pacha

preproman said:


> So is there going to be a SR-507 MKII and the SR-L700, SR-L500 as the new models?


 
 507mk2 are a typo mistake.

 Ali


----------



## Jodet

n3rdling said:


> Don't expect the L700 to sound like "a mix between the 009 and Lambdas" just because it looks that way.  It'll still sound very much like a Lambda because the driver shape is the same, the enclosure is basically the same, and the pads are basically the same.  The stator bracing will help a bit in reducing distortion and improving imaging precision.  Personally, I'm not too excited about the new products.


----------



## Music Alchemist

jodet said:


>


 







 I made this myself.


----------



## arnaud

It seems the drivers in the l700 are slightly angled, much less than the sigma but a few mm. If so, I'd expect them to sound a bit different from the rest.
Arnaud


----------



## Jodet

arnaud said:


> It seems the drivers in the l700 are slightly angled, much less than the sigma but a few mm. If so, I'd expect them to sound a bit different from the rest.
> Arnaud


 
  
 Until I hear different I'm assuming it's going to be like an 009 and a Lambda went through a matter transmitter together.    And the result is wonderful.


----------



## Jones Bob

music alchemist said:


> The HPS-2 and CPC-1 are available from PriceJapan.com for lower prices than from STAXUSA.com, but you have to order them as add-ons at the time of purchasing other STAX items. From what I understand, you already purchased the SR-009 and SRM-323S from them. Perhaps you could email them and say that you would like to add those items to your order, if it's not too late.




In my experience, one can order the wood stand and plastic cover separately from an Earspeaker order. 

Simply request a quote from Kaneda-san at PJ. That's what I did and it was around $100 delivered. Please note, that was a while ago, and the dollar to yen ratio has changed quite a bit.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Thanks @Music Alchemist and @rgs9200m for your advice.
  
 I'll probably order the stand and cover from STAX's US site. As for the KGSSHV Mini, not happening this time around. Already ordered the SRM-323S.
 ------------------------------------------------
 Anyway, I was wondering if I need to order any extra cable to connect the devices to each other (Computer>Gungnir>323S>009). Or will the required cables be included with the amp/DAC? Any information on this matter would help.
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Jones Bob

You'll need single ended RCA cables between the Gungnir and SRM-323s.


----------



## Music Alchemist

ahnafakeef said:


> Anyway, I was wondering if I need to order any extra cable to connect the devices to each other (Computer>Gungnir>323S>009). Or will the required cables be included with the amp/DAC? Any information on this matter would help.


 
  
 You will need an A male to B male USB cable, RCA cables, and something for the amp to safely work in your country. (I keep forgetting where you are, if you ever told me.) A voltage transformer, polarity inverter, or modified power supply could all work.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Thank you @Jones Bob and @Music Alchemist
  
 I've already ordered a voltage transformer with the amp from PriceJapan. So that's covered.
  
 As for the cables, I've found these cables on Schiit's site (http://schiit.com/products/pyst-cables).
  
 Which ones and how many of each should I order?
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Music Alchemist

ahnafakeef said:


> As for the cables, I've found these cables on Schiit's site (http://schiit.com/products/pyst-cables).
> Which ones and how many of each should I order?


 
  
 If you want the best value, I would recommend these cables:
  
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030301&p_id=5437&seq=1&format=2
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814&p_id=5346&seq=1&format=2
  
 You only need one set of each. (The RCA cables come with two, as in one for both channels.)


----------



## ahnafakeef

music alchemist said:


> If you want the best value, I would recommend these cables:
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030301&p_id=5437&seq=1&format=2
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814&p_id=5346&seq=1&format=2
> ...


 
 Thank you. I wonder why Schiit charges so much higher for their cables.
  
 Anyway, so here's my accessory/cable order list.
 1. http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030301&p_id=5437&seq=1&format=2
 2. http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814&p_id=5346&seq=1&format=2
 3. https://www.staxusa.com/stax-hps-2.html
 4. https://www.staxusa.com/stax-cpc-1.html
  
 I should be all set on the accessories side. Please let me know if I should get some other accessory/cable as well. Thank you.


----------



## Music Alchemist

ahnafakeef said:


> Thank you. I wonder why Schiit charges so much higher for their cables.


 
  
 Some companies charge thousands of dollars for a cable. Don't worry about it for now. If you become wealthier and have such an inclination, you can play around with stuff like that in the future. Some people say high-end cables are worth it. Others say all properly designed cables sound the same. Only you can decide what's best for you.


----------



## ahnafakeef

music alchemist said:


> Some companies charge thousands of dollars for a cable. Don't worry about it for now. If you become wealthier and have such an inclination, you can play around with stuff like that in the future. Some people say high-end cables are worth it. Others say all properly designed cables sound the same. Only you can decide what's best for you.


 
 I think I'll start off with the Monoprice cables you linked me to. I'll have to conduct an in-depth research on what might benefit my particular setup. After that I can decide if I want better cables or not.
  
 But it's surprising that Schiit/STAX don't provide these cables with their equipment, especially because of the abysmally low price of the cables.


----------



## Jones Bob

Not surprising. In order to sell the maximum performance product for the least amount, they leave cable selection to the buyer. Instead of including a cable that most people would toss for their favorite flavor.


----------



## ahnafakeef

jones bob said:


> Not surprising. In order to sell the maximum performance product for the least amount, they leave cable selection to the buyer. Instead of including a cable that most people would toss for their favorite flavor.


 
 'Favorite flavor'? Are you saying that cables can actually and significantly change sound signature and flavor? If yes, could you please link me to something that clearly explains how each cable affects the sound?
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Music Alchemist

ahnafakeef said:


> But it's surprising that Schiit/STAX don't provide these cables with their equipment, especially because of the abysmally low price of the cables.


 
  
 It's surprising that car companies don't sell a selection of gas options with their cars. ...Oh, wait, no it's not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


ahnafakeef said:


> 'Favorite flavor'? Are you saying that cables can actually and significantly change sound signature and flavor? If yes, could you please link me to something that clearly explains how each cable affects the sound?


 
  
 This is the STAX thread. Ask here instead:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/f/21/cables-power-tweaks-speakers-accessories-dbt-free-forum
  
 Or just look at the cables on my wish list on my profile, then go to Google and look up reviews for them, if you want examples.


----------



## Jones Bob

ahnafakeef said:


> 'Favorite flavor'? Are you saying that cables can actually and significantly change sound signature and flavor? If yes, could you please link me to something that clearly explains how each cable affects the sound?
> 
> Thank you.




Yes, in my experience.

Music Alchemist gave you a good start.


----------



## ahnafakeef

music alchemist said:


> It's surprising that car companies don't sell a selection of gas options with their cars. ...Oh, wait, no it's not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


jones bob said:


> Yes, in my experience.
> 
> Music Alchemist gave you a good start.


 
 Thank you both very much. I guess I'll have to look into cables just as much as any other audio component.


----------



## Music Alchemist

ahnafakeef said:


> Thank you both very much. I guess I'll have to look into cables just as much as any other audio component.


 
  
 Just don't buy high-end cables until after you already have a high-end amp, DAC, etc. You can also eventually look into power management and vibration control.


----------



## astrostar59

Seen this? This is what music is all about...
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNZKwKRUb7U


----------



## Jodet

So how often do we get new models from Stax?   Haven't the 407/507 models been around over a decade or more?


----------



## HemiSam

comzee said:


> Not sure if the S-002 gets any praise, but I friggin love these things.
> I ordered them before ordering my 009's, to get a feel for estats. I wanted to get a general idea before taking a multi-thousand dollar plunge.
> Funny thing is, I got impatient and ordered the 009's before even getting the 002's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was fortunate to have a kind member loan me his SR-003MK2 and I was surprised how good they sound.  Your points on being uncomfortable, though, are spot on.  I could not wear them for extended listening sessions...at all.  After 20 or so minutes they were unbearable for me personally, and they were never comfortable.  Really glad I got to check them out, though.  Provided some insights into the SR-009's.  I like my SR-007A's powered by a KGST and I was curious about the 009's.  I personally like a bit warmer sound signature so I'm undecided about the 009's.  Don't need them at all...just curiousity that will likely drive me to buy them one day.  
  
 HS


----------



## ahnafakeef

music alchemist said:


> Just don't buy high-end cables until after you already have a high-end amp, DAC, etc. You can also eventually look into power management and vibration control.


 
 By that statement, I assume you're implying that the D-S Gungnir isn't a high-end DAC? 
  
 But yes, I will probably want an amp that is more fitting for an SR-009. The BHSE at ~$6K is way too much in my opinion, especially since I can get a complete system that will be 4K/60Hz ready for the price.
  
 Hence I asked for a top ten amp list for the SR-009. Maybe I'll get something less exorbitantly priced a while later.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

SRM-727A from pricejapan + AC adapter + feedback mod.

 Ali


----------



## Music Alchemist

jodet said:


> So how often do we get new models from Stax?   Haven't the 407/507 models been around over a decade or more?


 
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stax_products
  
 2011. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But the Lambda range (which the SR-407 and SR-507 are a part of) has been around since the '70s.
  


ahnafakeef said:


> But yes, I will probably want an amp that is more fitting for an SR-009. The BHSE at ~$6K is way too much in my opinion, especially since I can get a complete system that will be 4K/60Hz ready for the price.
> Hence I asked for a top ten amp list for the SR-009. Maybe I'll get something less exorbitantly priced a while later.


 
  
 What's your budget limit for your endgame electrostat amp? The KGSSHV Carbon and Cavalli Liquid Lightning 2 are under $5K. Some people like the SR-009 more with the LL2 than the BHSE. (But don't get me wrong. I'm not "recommending" anything. You'll have to do your own research and, ideally, audition stuff before making a final decision. Me, on the other hand...I may just end up collecting all these amps, since I lost interest in high-end non-electrostats.)


----------



## Jodet

music alchemist said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stax_products
> 
> 2011.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well that couldn't be more wrong.   I have a photo on my PC of my brand new in a box 507's - taken in 2010.


----------



## Music Alchemist

jodet said:


> Well that couldn't be more wrong.   I have a photo on my PC of my brand new in a box 507's - taken in 2010.


 
  
 That's what I get for relying on Wikipedia. XD
  
 For what it's worth, this link says revised in 2011:
  
 http://www.stax.co.jp/Export/SR507e.html
  
 Guess that just means they tweaked it the next year...or just updated that web page. haha


----------



## ahnafakeef

music alchemist said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stax_products
> 
> 2011.
> 
> ...


 
 I was thinking more along the lines of $2K actually. Guess that won't suffice for an endgame amp.
 ---------------------------------------------------------
 Anyway, I can't order the HPS-2 and CPC-1 from StaxUSA. What other site sells them and ships from the USA? I've already tried Amazon and ebay, but to no avail.


----------



## vapman

ahnafakeef said:


> Anyway, I can't order the HPS-2 and CPC-1 from StaxUSA. What other site sells them and ships from the USA? I've already tried Amazon and ebay, but to no avail.


 
 Whats wrong with StaxUSA?


----------



## ahnafakeef

vapman said:


> Whats wrong with StaxUSA?


 
 They declined the credit card I tried to use. I'm using a service to import it, so I'm not exactly sure which card they're using. Might be PayPal.
  
 So I need a recommendation on which other site I can purchase it from.
  
 Thank you.


----------



## vapman

ahnafakeef said:


> They declined the credit card I tried to use. I'm using a service to import it, so I'm not exactly sure which card they're using. Might be PayPal.
> 
> So I need a recommendation on which other site I can purchase it from.
> 
> Thank you.


 

 Have you tried calling your CC company and asked about the transaction being denied? It's happened to me before with other import based vendors. Once I tell them to allow the transaction it almost always lets me do the purchase within 30 mins.


----------



## Lan647

hemisam said:


> I was fortunate to have a kind member loan me his SR-003MK2 and I was surprised how good they sound.  Your points on being uncomfortable, though, are spot on.  I could not wear them for extended listening sessions...at all.  After 20 or so minutes they were unbearable for me personally, and they were never comfortable.  Really glad I got to check them out, though.  Provided some insights into the SR-009's.  I like my SR-007A's powered by a KGST and I was curious about the 009's.  I personally like a bit warmer sound signature so I'm undecided about the 009's.  Don't need them at all...just curiousity that will likely drive me to buy them one day.
> 
> HS


 

 TBH, while many disagree (for some reason...), I think the SR-007 mk1 (not the 007A and not the black SZ3, at least before modifications) is superior to the SR-009 in every way. It has a naturalness and a purity of tone that no other headphone can match, if it's driven well. The 009 by comparison just lacks that organic quality and is more towards the clinical HD 800-ish side of things.


----------



## preproman

lan647 said:


> TBH, while many disagree (for some reason...), I think the SR-007 mk1 (not the 007A and not the black SZ3, at least before modifications) is superior to the SR-009 in every way. It has a naturalness and a purity of tone that no other headphone can match, if it's driven well. The 009 by comparison just lacks that organic quality and is more towards the clinical HD 800-ish side of things.


 

 Interesteing that you say this.  I'm curious about the amps you used to come to this conclusion.  
  
 I say this because.  
  
 On the KGST i like the 009s better - it's far from clinical on that amp.  The KGST IMO is too laid back for the 007s MK1.  On the BHSE I like the 007 MK1s better, on this amp I can see how some may consider the 009s more towards the clinical side (I don't).  The BHSE knows how to bring the best out the 007 MK1s.  I don't know about the LL2 yet with either - it's incoming.  
  
 Overall for me the KGST was to laid back for both.  
  
 I'm hoping the LL2 is somewhere in-between the BHSE and the KGST with the 009s.  ie.  More lively than the KGST and not as aggressive as the BHSE.


----------



## comzee

preproman said:


> Overall for me the KGST was to laid back for both.


 
  
 I have the KGSSHV-Carbon specifically made for the 009s by Spritzer. It's sublime, but I would say it's clinical. Although, it's less harsh in the treble then my HD800s, and I'm running those off a tube amp!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

comzee said:


> I have the KGSSHV-Carbon specifically made for the 009s by Spritzer. It's sublime, but I would say it's clinical. Although, it's less harsh in the treble then my HD800s, and I'm running those off *a tube amp*!


 
  
 A WA7?


----------



## ahnafakeef

vapman said:


> Have you tried calling your CC company and asked about the transaction being denied? It's happened to me before with other import based vendors. Once I tell them to allow the transaction it almost always lets me do the purchase within 30 mins.


 
 Like I said, I'm availing a service provider to import it. So I can't contact the credit card company myself. My only option is to find another US site that sells the HPS-2 and CPC-1.
  
 Any information on where I might be able to make the purchases (other than from StaxUSA obviously) would be highly appreciated.


----------



## bearFNF

Try amazon they have the stand listed for $55. 





ahnafakeef said:


> Like I said, I'm availing a service provider to import it. So I can't contact the credit card company myself. My only option is to find another US site that sells the HPS-2 and CPC-1.
> 
> Any information on where I might be able to make the purchases (other than from StaxUSA obviously) would be highly appreciated.


----------



## ahnafakeef

bearfnf said:


> Try amazon they have the stand listed for $55.


 
 I know. But they all ship from Japan. I need a vendor who can ship from the US.


----------



## bearFNF

ahnafakeef said:


> I know. But they all ship from Japan. I need a vendor who can ship from the US.



You could try headamp to see if they can get them for you. They got me cables...in time.


----------



## Lan647

preproman said:


> Interesteing that you say this.  I'm curious about the amps you used to come to this conclusion.
> 
> I say this because.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I wouldn't say the SR-009 is clinical like _so._ But it certainly is more to that direction than I think is ideal. 
  
 About amping, there really isn't a HUGE difference between these electrostatic amps, at least not tonally. The better STAX amps sound only marginally different (with the 727 being the exception IME stock), and the KGSS and KGST are based on the high-end transistor and tube amps from STAX, respectively. Most of em sound great more or less and great results can be achieved by simply modifying the STAX amps and replacing some components with higher quality ones. Basically, they are all STAX designs, just beefed up/perfected to different degrees. 

 And although I have not used the 009 or the 007 with the BHSE, my experience has always been that the SR-009 is great in its own way, but I consider it more of a "perfected" version of the Lambda sound (which has always been a little to the bright side of things). The 007 varies much more from amp to amp simply because most of em just aren't powerful enough and bottleneck the headphone to different degrees. But driven well, it's pure, organic, powerful, realistic...


----------



## mulveling

I've heard now 5 different KGSShv builds (always next to at least 1 or more other builds for direct comparison), and even within that one amp type there were significant tonal differences. The warmest was a 450V Sanyo build, and it was far from clinical or bright when paired with 009 -- but yeah, it was a bit too much warmth with the 007 Mk I (though it still sounded good). The brightest hv build was tonally a lot like a BHSE, except maybe a bit more bright (and obviously a bit less detailed vs. the excellent BHSE), and it was just not a great mix with the 009. The IXYS 500V builds are a bit more clinical than 450V but don't go too far in that direction and aren't bright -- this is usually my favorite of the hv amps for BOTH 009 and 007 Mk I, with the 009 giving the superior sound.
  
 The KGST I have is a good tonal match with the 009, and a very nice sounding amp, but it loses out to the hv amps on soundstage, dynamics, bass impact, and detail.
  
 If the folks complaining about 009 clinicality/brightness heard the 009 out of a nice 450V Sanyo with a warm or neutral source, I think they'd be shocked.


----------



## PATB

I read that KGSSHVs are not all the same, and I am sensitive to bright (my favorite headphone of all time is the HD650), so definitely needed an audition before purchasing.  As chance would have it, I live a few miles from NoPants and he had for sale a KGSSHV with Sanyo parts, +/- 400V BHSE power supply, and Edcor Transformer.  Resolving, but definitely not bright with his SR-009, SR-007 and Lambda pro, so I purchased it on the spot.


----------



## Music Alchemist

ahnafakeef said:


> I know. But they all ship from Japan. I need a vendor who can ship from the US.


 
  
 You _could_ just get a different headphone stand if the STAX one doesn't work out.
  


lan647 said:


> And although I have not used the 009 or the 007 with the BHSE, my experience has always been that the SR-009 is great in its own way, but I consider it more of a "perfected" version of the Lambda sound (which has always been a little to the bright side of things).


 
  
 I actually know someone who likes the SR-207 more than the SR-009, partially because she thinks the SR-009 is too bright. Would you say the SR-009 is less bright than the SR-207? I thought the SR-207 was only _slightly_ bright, but still easily the most neutral headphone I've heard so far.


----------



## Jones Bob

The single WOO Headphone stand is very nice.
  
http://www.amazon.com/Woo-Audio-HPS-RS-Universal-Adjustable/dp/B006KLD2I0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1444675024&sr=8-1&keywords=woo+headphone+stand
  
 Tonally, the SR-207 has a little more body and is more upfront than the SR-009, while the SR-009 has gobs more detail and an expansive sound stage in comparison. I like my SR-207 compared to other headphones, but find them boring in regards to my SR-009. The SR-009s seem to live and breathe.


----------



## bearFNF

I have and like the Woo stands. The is also the omega stand that would work well.
http://www.amazon.com/Wooden-Omega-Headphones-Hanger-Holder/dp/B00F2L1NOO


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> I've heard now 5 different KGSShv builds (always next to at least 1 or more other builds for direct comparison), and even within that one amp type there were significant tonal differences. The warmest was a 450V Sanyo build, and it was far from clinical or bright when paired with 009 -- but yeah, it was a bit too much warmth with the 007 Mk I (though it still sounded good). The brightest hv build was tonally a lot like a BHSE, except maybe a bit more bright (and obviously a bit less detailed vs. the excellent BHSE), and it was just not a great mix with the 009. The IXYS 500V builds are a bit more clinical than 450V but don't go too far in that direction and aren't bright -- this is usually my favorite of the hv amps for BOTH 009 and 007 Mk I, with the 009 giving the superior sound.
> 
> The KGST I have is a good tonal match with the 009, and a very nice sounding amp, but it loses out to the hv amps on soundstage, dynamics, bass impact, and detail.
> 
> If the folks complaining about 009 clinicality/brightness heard the 009 out of a nice 450V Sanyo with a warm or neutral source, I think they'd be shocked.


 

 Interesting. I have the 'headinclouds' built 450v KGSShv which has Sanyo parts. Yes, mine is warm, but because of that it compliments the 009s just right. I also have another KGSShv from 'headinclouds' exactly the same except the pot is an Alpha as opposed to a 48 Step. This amp also sounds great with the 007A, I think, because that version of the 007 is livelier and more alive than my previous 007 MK2.5. So, to me the 009 is NOT bright. It is revealing, just like any great high end speaker would be. If you have a brightish DS DAC that cost less than say 6K you will have problems. I glaze over when I read folk trying to put the 009 on the end of a Stax amp and budget DAC, it is insane IMO. Just like any mid to low end 'hifi' system, the matching speakers will cover up failing in the front end because they are less revealing, they would be (if the manufactures wants to sell systems) design that in. When you get a really smooth and high quality source, then let it rip, have revealing speakers or the 009, hear everything in all it's glory. If you have the 009 with a budget front end, all that you get will be more warts and distortions, you will hear them more and it will distract from the music. It is obvious to me....


----------



## barid

Haven't tried a KGSSHV or BHSE yet, but I did have an old headamp KGSS, feedback modded 727, and an old wee energizer. 
  
 Sure there are differences between them but I never thought any of them sounded like garbage.  Someday I'll get my hands on one of these amps that gets hyped so much.  Then I can read about how my source isn't good enough and move onto that upgrade....


----------



## Lan647

mulveling said:


> *I've heard now 5 different KGSShv builds (always next to at least 1 or more other builds for direct comparison), and even within that one amp type there were significant tonal differences. *The warmest was a 450V Sanyo build, and it was far from clinical or bright when paired with 009 -- but yeah, it was a bit too much warmth with the 007 Mk I (though it still sounded good). The brightest hv build was tonally a lot like a BHSE, except maybe a bit more bright (and obviously a bit less detailed vs. the excellent BHSE), and it was just not a great mix with the 009. The IXYS 500V builds are a bit more clinical than 450V but don't go too far in that direction and aren't bright -- this is usually my favorite of the hv amps for BOTH 009 and 007 Mk I, with the 009 giving the superior sound.
> 
> The KGST I have is a good tonal match with the 009, and a very nice sounding amp, but it loses out to the hv amps on soundstage, dynamics, bass impact, and detail.
> 
> If the folks complaining about 009 clinicality/brightness heard the 009 out of a nice 450V Sanyo with a warm or neutral source, I think they'd be shocked.


 

 Interesting... not surprising though. Can't speak much about it as I've not heard any KGSSHVs nor the BHSE. Hope I'll get the chance one day.


----------



## ahnafakeef

music alchemist said:


> You _could_ just get a different headphone stand if the STAX one doesn't work out.


 
 I want a STAX stand, and fortunately, it's available on Amazon UK and I'm ordering from there.


----------



## Lan647

music alchemist said:


> You _could_ just get a different headphone stand if the STAX one doesn't work out.
> 
> 
> *I actually know someone who likes the SR-207 more than the SR-009, partially because she thinks the SR-009 is too bright. Would you say the SR-009 is less bright than the SR-207? I thought the SR-207 was only slightly bright, but still easily the most neutral headphone I've heard so far.*


 
  
 Don't know about the 207 but the 407 definitely sounds brighter than the SR-009. 207 is supposed to be different though.


----------



## astrostar59

barid said:


> Haven't tried a KGSSHV or BHSE yet, but I did have an old headamp KGSS, feedback modded 727, and an old wee energizer.
> 
> Sure there are differences between them but I never thought any of them sounded like garbage.  Someday I'll get my hands on one of these amps that gets hyped so much.  Then I can read about how my source isn't good enough and move onto that upgrade....


 
 IMO that is the wrong way around. You will not need to read about it, you will basically hear everything, and then you can make your own judgment. Folk on here can only say what they experience.
 There is logic in budget matching a system and system synergy. It is also entirely possible to spend shed loads of money and have a terrible sound.
  
 For example: Source - A DS DAC that could be bright (not all are) - a bright Stat amp (I won't name those, I don't want the hassles of the attacks that will follow) - 009s.
 You will have a pretty bad match there. and have spent at least £12K.
  
 On the other hand: Metrum Octave MK2 - KGSShv - 007A that is a good match, will have cost you £3.5K.
  
 Obviously that is a summary to illustrate what I am trying to explain. IMO get the 009, but expect to blow another 3-5K on a DAC and 2K+ on a DIY amp or 5K on a factory made Stat amp.


----------



## Music Alchemist

jones bob said:


> Tonally, the SR-207 has a little more body and is more upfront than the SR-009, while the SR-009 has gobs more detail and an expansive sound stage in comparison. I like my SR-207 compared to other headphones, but find them boring in regards to my SR-009. The SR-009s seem to live and breathe.


 
  
 So the SR-207 is more upfront, yet boring despite being more upfront? Your wording is a little confusing. I thought the SR-207 was slightly lacking in bass, impact, and the weight of the instruments (which I'm assuming is what you mean by body) but otherwise the best headphone I've heard so far...and always read about how the SR-009 has _more_ bass and body.
  
 What does everyone else think? Do you think the SR-009 has proper "weight" to the instruments? Some people say planar magnetic headphones have proper weight while electrostats are too ethereal, thin, weightless, or whatever. I don't agree with this, however. Electrostats sound more realistic to me overall.
  


astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. I have the 'headinclouds' built 450v KGSShv which has Sanyo parts. Yes, mine is warm, but because of that it compliments the 009s just right. I also have another KGSShv from 'headinclouds' exactly the same except the pot is an Alpha as opposed to a 48 Step. This amp also sounds great with the 007A, I think, because that version of the 007 is livelier and more alive than my previous 007 MK2.5. So, to me the 009 is NOT bright. It is revealing, just like any great high end speaker would be. If you have a brightish DS DAC that cost less than say 6K you will have problems. I glaze over when I read folk trying to put the 009 on the end of a Stax amp and budget DAC, it is insane IMO. Just like any mid to low end 'hifi' system, the matching speakers will cover up failing in the front end because they are less revealing, they would be (if the manufactures wants to sell systems) design that in. When you get a really smooth and high quality source, then let it rip, have revealing speakers or the 009, hear everything in all it's glory. If you have the 009 with a budget front end, all that you get will be more warts and distortions, you will hear them more and it will distract from the music. It is obvious to me....


 
  
 How will it be "warts and distortions" when even $99 DACs can easily have a neutral frequency response and distortion far below the threshold of audibility?


----------



## Lan647

music alchemist said:


> So the SR-207 is more upfront, yet boring despite being more upfront? Your wording is a little confusing. I thought the SR-207 was slightly lacking in bass, impact, and the weight of the instruments (which I'm assuming is what you mean by body) but otherwise the best headphone I've heard so far...and always read about how the SR-009 has _more_ bass and body.
> 
> What does everyone else think? Do you think the SR-009 has proper "weight" to the instruments? Some people say planar magnetic headphones have proper weight while electrostats are too ethereal, thin, weightless, or whatever. I don't agree with this, however. Electrostats sound more realistic to me overall.
> 
> ...


 

 The bass of the SR-009 is really quick with great impact (it can punch!) and extension but it certainly doesn't have the body and weight of an Audeze headphone. The 007 is a better bet if you want more warmth and weight to the sound overall. 

 Compared to my 407, the 009 has better defined and more linear bass with superior extension.


----------



## Tinkerer

music alchemist said:


> So the SR-207 is more upfront, yet boring despite being more upfront? Your wording is a little confusing. I thought the SR-207 was slightly lacking in bass, impact, and the weight of the instruments (which I'm assuming is what you mean by body) but otherwise the best headphone I've heard so far...and always read about how the SR-009 has _more_ bass and body.
> 
> What does everyone else think? Do you think the SR-009 has proper "weight" to the instruments? Some people say planar magnetic headphones have proper weight while electrostats are too ethereal, thin, weightless, or whatever. I don't agree with this, however. Electrostats sound more realistic to me overall.
> 
> ...


 
  
 SR-007 is said to have the best bass of the current crop of Omegas. SR-009 is supposed to beat it in other areas. Like somebody else said, a perfection of the lambda type sound.
  
 I'm not really sold on how DAC prices feather into things either. Even the best headphones and amps don't let people reliably tell something like the gungnir from the yggdrasil in blind tests. I've had DAC's at various pricepoints up to around $700 and my current favorite is the internal one in an old Denon AVR-3300 I got for ten bucks. Sure it was a thousand dollar unit back in the day but it's nothing special now. Not that I won't play around with my source some more when I get my KGSSHV up and running in a week or two.


----------



## mulveling

I generally agree with what Astrostar's saying, but I've had good experience pairing the 009 with modestly priced DS DACs: NAD M51, Eximus DP1 (ok, that one not as modestly priced thanks to its useless/crapy built-in headamp). But if you do haplessly pair the 009 with bright DAC or amp, then yeah you're basically screwed. I'd be curious to hear the new Gungnir multi-bit; I'm optimistic that might be a good budget pairing for 009 -- the money could be better put into a better amp.
  
 I still don't consider the 009 to be more than very slightly bright. I've heard a lot worse from HD800 and Lambda Signature, for example...but even those are serviceable with warm amp pairings. That old classic bowl-pad Grado sound, though, ugh...and as for the king of brightness, ever heard the old silver sr-325?


----------



## Lan647

mulveling said:


> I generally agree with what Astrostar's saying, but I've had good experience pairing the 009 with modestly priced DS DACs: NAD M51, Eximus DP1 (ok, that one not as modestly priced thanks to its useless/crapy built-in headamp). But if you do haplessly pair the 009 with bright DAC or amp, then yeah you're basically screwed. I'd be curious to hear the new Gungnir multi-bit; I'm optimistic that might be a good budget pairing for 009 -- the money could be better put into a better amp.
> 
> *I still don't consider the 009 to be more than very slightly bright. I've heard a lot worse from HD800 and Lambda Signature*, for example...but even those are serviceable with warm amp pairings. That old classic bowl-pad Grado sound, though, ugh...and as for the king of brightness, ever heard the old silver sr-325?


 
  
 +1 
  
 To be fair, I think the SR-009 has great, coherent treble overall. Clearer than any dynamic I've heard and more refined than any Lambda I've heard. But very slightly forward as you say. And sometimes I experience fatigue when listening to them, I think there is some sort of ringing phenomenon somewhere in there that I don't hear on the 007. Not sure though, it could just be brightness.


----------



## astrostar59

music alchemist said:


> How will it be "warts and distortions" when even $99 DACs can easily have a neutral frequency response and distortion far below the threshold of audibility?


 
 You got to be kidding me, so you really think a DAC is just a digital conversion device? It is actually a pre-amplifier with digital conversion circuits. So we have all the problems of a pre-amplifier to consider. Now, when was the last time you heard a truly great pre-amplifier for 99 US? Hmm, to be honest I haven't heard a great pre-amplifier without tubes. Yes, some good ones are SS but you are still talking 3K and up.
  
 So, we have the digital circuits, the power supply and regulation, the analogue output and everything in-between, and everything after i.e. the output impedance and power to drive the next stage (device). It is incredible how many DACs are made with simply awful opp amp circuits as an after thought. It is not all about the chip....


----------



## comzee

astrostar59 said:


> You got to be kidding me, so you really think a DAC is just a digital conversion device? It is actually a pre-amplifier with digital conversion circuits. So we have all the problems of a pre-amplifier to consider.


 
 An active pre-amp that is. You can get basically best in world passive pre-amp for $500ish
 For example, I just bought this here 99.x% transparent as a cable.
  
 It's funny, the two DACs I bought (M7 / Ygg) both have their active pre-amps set to max power, with no way to control......
 I was forced to buy that goldpoint -_-
  
 I wholeheartedly agree, the DAC chip itself is a useless way to tell if a DAC is good or not. Everything else is uber important.


----------



## ahnafakeef

mulveling said:


> I generally agree with what Astrostar's saying, but I've had good experience pairing the 009 with modestly priced DS DACs: NAD M51, Eximus DP1 (ok, that one not as modestly priced thanks to its useless/crapy built-in headamp). But if you do haplessly pair the 009 with bright DAC or amp, then yeah you're basically screwed. I'd be curious to hear the new Gungnir multi-bit; I'm optimistic that might be a good budget pairing for 009 -- the money could be better put into a better amp.
> 
> I still don't consider the 009 to be more than very slightly bright. I've heard a lot worse from HD800 and Lambda Signature, for example...but even those are serviceable with warm amp pairings. That old classic bowl-pad Grado sound, though, ugh...and as for the king of brightness, ever heard the old silver sr-325?


 
 Sorry for the intrusion, but I'm getting an SR-009 setup, so please entertain my curiosity if you will.
  
 i) Is there a chance that a D-S Gungnir might be a "bad" match for an SR-009? If so, how?
 ii) If the Gungnir's money could be put into a better amp, which one would be recommendable considering the initial setup was based on an SRM-323S?
  
 Thank you for your time.


----------



## mulveling

ahnafakeef said:


> Sorry for the intrusion, but I'm getting an SR-009 setup, so please entertain my curiosity if you will.
> 
> i) Is there a chance that a D-S Gungnir might be a "bad" match for an SR-009? If so, how?
> ii) If the Gungnir's money could be put into a better amp, which one would be recommendable considering the initial setup was based on an SRM-323S?
> ...


 
 I can't answer about the Gungnir as I haven't heard those DACs; to be clear I was only speculating that the new multi-bit version seemed very interesting and could possibly be a nice low-cost alternative. But I've found the 009 to be superb combined with either of the two D-S DACs I own (neither is exorbitantly priced) and then paired with _most_ KGSShv builds, or the KGST (though to a lesser degree of excellence on that one) -- and we're talking below BHSE and DIY T2 levels, here (because if you can go for that then do so). The amp pairing is most critical, in my experience, and you do need to get to a certain level before you can properly experience the 009. I did not like the 323 or stock 727 (though there is an easy mod that supposedly makes it much better); it would be *impossible* for me to enjoy those pairings after all the other amps I've experienced, as the performance gap is that large. I heard an old Head-amp KGSS with 007 Mk I a few times several years ago, and though that was long ago I remember being extremely disappointed each time -- my impression is that the 007 Mk I sounds _much_ better with _any_ KGSShv, and therefore that the "hv" versions are far superior amps. Honestly, hearing that old KGSS/007 combo put me off of electrostats for _years_. 
  
 If I were you I'd look for a nice looking full-sized 450V or 500V KGSShv build on the used FS forum -- OR for less money, a screaming deal on a nice KGST could also be a good buy. They come up pretty regularly and there are a number of DIY builders known to do high-quality work. If you must feel like you're buying a new/commercial amp then I'd suggest looking at Mjolnir Audio.


----------



## purk

mulveling said:


> I can't answer about the Gungnir as I haven't heard those DACs; to be clear I was only speculating that the new multi-bit version seemed very interesting and could possibly be a nice low-cost alternative. But I've found the 009 to be superb combined with either of the two D-S DACs I own (neither is exorbitantly priced) and then paired with _most_ KGSShv builds, or the KGST (though to a lesser degree of excellence on that one) -- and we're talking below BHSE and DIY T2 levels, here (because if you can go for that then do so). The amp pairing is most critical, in my experience, and you do need to get to a certain level before you can properly experience the 009. I did not like the 323 or stock 727 (though there is an easy mod that supposedly makes it much better); it would be *impossible* for me to enjoy those pairings after all the other amps I've experienced, as the performance gap is that large. I heard an old Head-amp KGSS with 007 Mk I a few times several years ago, and though that was long ago I remember being extremely disappointed each time -- my impression is that the 007 Mk I sounds _much_ better with _any_ KGSShv, and therefore that the "hv" versions are far superior amps. Honestly, hearing that old KGSS/007 combo put me off of electrostats for _years_.
> 
> *If I were you I'd look for a nice looking full-sized 450V or 500V KGSShv build on the used FS forum -- OR for less money, a screaming deal on a nice KGST could also be a good buy. They come up pretty regularly and there are a number of DIY builders known to do high-quality work. If you must feel like you're buying a new/commercial amp then I'd suggest looking at Mjolnir Audio.*


 
 I second that.  I would look into the FS/FT forum first.  The full-size KGSSHVs either versions are such a great great amp for the money.


----------



## Music Alchemist

astrostar59 said:


> You got to be kidding me, so you really think a DAC is just a digital conversion device? It is actually a pre-amplifier with digital conversion circuits. So we have all the problems of a pre-amplifier to consider. Now, when was the last time you heard a truly great pre-amplifier for 99 US? Hmm, to be honest I haven't heard a great pre-amplifier without tubes. Yes, some good ones are SS but you are still talking 3K and up.
> 
> So, we have the digital circuits, the power supply and regulation, the analogue output and everything in-between, and everything after i.e. the output impedance and power to drive the next stage (device). It is incredible how many DACs are made with simply awful opp amp circuits as an after thought. It is not all about the chip....


 
  
 No, I mean, if the THD, IMD, etc. are a tiny fraction of a percent, and you are saying it still has audible distortion, then what type of distortion is it and at what percentage is it? Show me the measurements.


----------



## purk

music alchemist said:


> No, I mean, if the THD, IMD, etc. are a tiny fraction of a percent, and you are saying it still has audible distortion, then what type of distortion is it and at what percentage is it? Show me the measurements.


 
 Not only that but...there are such thing as a great output stage.  I mean you need a good sounding output stage for the DAC to sound any where half decent.


----------



## joseph69

Funny the question was asked about the Gungnir. I was going to purchase the GS-Xmk2/HE-1K combo, so I bought the Gungnir-USB2 so I could run my system in balanced mode…I've since changed my mind, and ordered the BHSE/SR-009 instead (which I'm waiting for) and was wondering how it is going to pair with this combo myself.


----------



## preproman

joseph69 said:


> Funny the question was asked about the Gungnir. I was going to purchase the GS-Xmk2/HE-1K combo, so I bought the Gungnir-USB2 so I could run my system in balanced mode…I've since changed my mind, and ordered the BHSE/SR-009 instead (which I'm waiting for) and was wondering how it is going to pair with this combo myself.


 
  
 Just for ****s and giggles...

 If you were to return the Gungnir what would your DAC budget be?


----------



## joseph69

preproman said:


> Just for ****s and giggles...
> If you were to return the Gungnir what would your DAC budget be?


 
 Thats a hard question to answer because I don't believe it is the price of the DAC which makes it better, I believe its the pairing of the DAC/entire chain which should all compliment each other along the way, no?
 What DAC are you going to pair with your BHSE/SR-009 combo?
 One thing I have to say is that I have a 1990 Meridian-203 DAC and in its own different ways it is just as good or better for my sound preference's in some ways. It may not be as detailed as my Rega DAC or the Gungnir, and may not have the separation/sound-stage these have, but it definitely amazing bass slam/tightness/full sound over the Rega/Gungnir. Also I bought the Gungnir because I'm using balanced in the new set-up not SE, so I can't use the others. I'm not saying any are better than the others that I have, but they definitely have different presentations…for sure.


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## preproman

I have the ENM Labs DAC2X waiting for the BHSE. 

I ask that because if you're able to trade up to the Yggdrasil i think it would be a better match.

In this case staying with the same company, I would say the higher priced DAC is the better DAC.


----------



## joseph69

preproman said:


> I have the* ENM Labs DAC2X *waiting for the BHSE.
> I ask that because if you're able to trade up to the Yggdrasil i think it would be a better match.
> In this case staying with the same company, I would say the higher priced DAC is the better DAC.


 
I just checked this DAC's price tag out!!! 




 
 [size=x-small]I don't really need to stay with the same company[/size]…[size=x-small]lets say about $1.5-2K range.[/size]


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## rgs9200m

You might want to look up David1961's posts. His system : Esoteric K-01 ==> BHSE w/upgraded tubes from Psvane or Mullard ==> SR009. He and friends have done some experimenting with the Stax 009 system.
 Some examples to start out with:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/439657/headamp-blue-hawaii-special-edition/7320#post_11718406
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/439657/headamp-blue-hawaii-special-edition/6795#post_11289510


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## joseph69

rgs9200m said:


> You might want to look up David1961's posts. His system : Esoteric K-01 ==> BHSE w/upgraded tubes from Psvane or Mullard ==> SR009. He and friends have done some experimenting with the Stax 009 system.
> Some examples to start out with:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/439657/headamp-blue-hawaii-special-edition/7320#post_11718406
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/439657/headamp-blue-hawaii-special-edition/6795#post_11289510


 
 Thank you very much for the info/links, I appreciate it.


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## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> I can't answer about the Gungnir as I haven't heard those DACs; to be clear I was only speculating that the new multi-bit version seemed very interesting and could possibly be a nice low-cost alternative. But I've found the 009 to be superb combined with either of the two D-S DACs I own (neither is exorbitantly priced) and then paired with _most_ KGSShv builds, or the KGST (though to a lesser degree of excellence on that one) -- and we're talking below BHSE and DIY T2 levels, here (because if you can go for that then do so). The amp pairing is most critical, in my experience, and you do need to get to a certain level before you can properly experience the 009. I did not like the 323 or stock 727 (though there is an easy mod that supposedly makes it much better); it would be *impossible* for me to enjoy those pairings after all the other amps I've experienced, as the performance gap is that large. I heard an old Head-amp KGSS with 007 Mk I a few times several years ago, and though that was long ago I remember being extremely disappointed each time -- my impression is that the 007 Mk I sounds _much_ better with _any_ KGSShv, and therefore that the "hv" versions are far superior amps. Honestly, hearing that old KGSS/007 combo put me off of electrostats for _years_.
> 
> If I were you I'd look for a nice looking full-sized 450V or 500V KGSShv build on the used FS forum -- OR for less money, a screaming deal on a nice KGST could also be a good buy. They come up pretty regularly and there are a number of DIY builders known to do high-quality work. If you must feel like you're buying a new/commercial amp then I'd suggest looking at Mjolnir Audio.


 

 Totally agree with all that. But I would add my quest for fatigue free musical enjoyment and feeling it was real as opposed to 'hifi' was entering the R-2R DAC scene. DS did not sound right to me, it was an ear bleed and left me cold. If you want music that sounds and touches the soul, get an R-2R DAC (with some tubes in if possible). Sorry if that is not what you wanted to read, it is my findings and my personal journey that spread 20 years post my vinyl rig.... Back to the original question, get a KGSShv, then look for a better DAC.


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## astrostar59

Get an R-2R DAC with tubes. Can you stretch to this?
  
 http://www.ankaudiokits.com/Non-Oversampling-Valve-Rectified-Tube-DAC.html


----------



## David1961

Mentioning about DAC's here, does anyone know for sure whether it's Delta-Sigma or Sigma-Delta ?


----------



## Music Alchemist

david1961 said:


> Mentioning about DAC's here, does anyone know for sure whether it's Delta-Sigma or Sigma-Delta ?


 
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-sigma_modulation


----------



## astrostar59

I has been quoted both ways, but I think it is Delta-Sigma.


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## Music Alchemist

astrostar59 said:


> I has been quoted both ways, but I think it is Delta-Sigma.


 
  
 Yup, almost always referred to as Delta-Sigma.
  
 ...Ya know, I get the feeling that most STAX fans here aren't into extreme metal like I am (for the record, I love nearly all music)...because all this talk about electronics to mitigate harshness and so on is a moot point when the music itself is harsh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Funny thing is, I always felt that STAX excelled at the uncanny task of reaching deep into the heart of recordings while at the same time giving a better sense of just how good the recordings really are. (Recordings I thought were harsher based on hearing them in the past on inferior headphones, I mean.) And this is using entry-level amplification connected directly to my laptop! I'm sure the SR-009 and SR-007 on TOTL systems will be on an entirely different level. As you surely know by now, I ultimately don't care what it costs to get ultimate sound, so I am by no means trying to downplay the importance of high-end components...but it's still very nice to get such great experiences even with affordable electrostatic equipment.


----------



## preproman

joseph69 said:


> [size=x-small]I don't really need to stay with the same company[/size]…[size=x-small]lets say about $1.5-2K range.[/size]


 
  
 If you can stretch that a little.  Go for the Yggdrasil.  That would make for a pretty good rig.  There will be a few others building that same rig I know of.


----------



## David1961

I asked whether it's D-S or S-D, because with what Julian's ( astrostar59 ) posted about R2R DAC's, I decided to read up on what the difference was between R2R's and D-S/S-D, and the best explanation I found was on mother-of-tone.com , to which they'd put Sigma-delta.


----------



## joseph69

preproman said:


> If you can stretch that a little.  Go for the Yggdrasil.  That would make for a pretty good rig.  There will be a few others building that same rig I know of.


 
 Thanks, going to have to look into that and keep an open mind on some others. I'm still going to try the Gungnir first being I bought it used in *MINT* condition so it can't be traded/returned to Schiit...I'd have to sell it.


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> Totally agree with all that. But I would add my quest for fatigue free musical enjoyment and feeling it was real as opposed to 'hifi' was entering the R-2R DAC scene. DS did not sound right to me, it was an ear bleed and left me cold. If you want music that sounds and touches the soul, get an R-2R DAC (with some tubes in if possible). Sorry if that is not what you wanted to read, it is my findings and my personal journey that spread 20 years post my vinyl rig.... Back to the original question, get a KGSShv, then look for a better DAC.


 
  
 Hey I have a vinyl rig too, a pretty nice one at that: Clearaudio Innovation, Graham Supreme, Ortofon Cadenza Bronze and Koetsu Onyx Platinum, a couple nice tube phono stages, 1131 SUT -- admittedly I haven't tried that hooking it up to the Stax yet; I love having 2 separate systems: speaker setup w/ exclusively vinyl for the couch, and Stax w/ exclusively digital for the desk. When I have hooked the M51 / DP1 DACs up to the speaker rig they don't compare well at all, and I quickly pluck them right out -- but strangely somehow they don't seem to impede my enjoyment of the Stax 009, even though these are lower distortion transducers than my Tannoy Canterbury speakers. I dunno, maybe if hook up the Stax to vinyl I'd be completely blown away -- but for now I'm taking it easy and enjoying the cheap digital while I can, because it opens up a whole new avenue of music and to be honest I'm extremely hesitant to drop a lot of money on a digital anything (with vinyl my big $$$$ focus; I can only afford 1 and not even really 1). Also I don't experience _any_ fatigue with the 009 even on these DACs, even at high volumes for duration, when paired with a good amp -- I do get fatigued by lots of other stuff, like HD800 with many amps, supertweeters on my Tannoys, Grado headphones in the same room, certain super high-end MC carts (e.g. Ortofon Windfeld), lots of speakers (e.g. Tannoy Definition 10A) etc.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Another rather obvious solution for anyone who doesn't have or can't afford high-end electronics, and those who do, for that matter: a free parametric equalizer can do far more to change the sound, though it may not be as refined as the type of changes brought about by high-end amps, DACs, and so on. EQ is essential if you want a frequency response as close to neutral as possible. A few guides:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/587703/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial-part-2
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/615417/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-advanced-tutorial-in-progress
  
 Also, here are some modifications, for those who haven't seen them:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/754839/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/damping-mechanical-resonance-distortion-of-stax-and-other-phones-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

Has anyone got news of these anywhere.
  
 http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/blog/?p=20418
  
 Can't find much, are they for Japanese market and different voltage to the UK?


----------



## Peti

music alchemist said:


> Yup, almost always referred to as Delta-Sigma.
> 
> ...Ya know, I get the feeling that most STAX fans here aren't into extreme metal like I am (for the record, I love nearly all music)...because all this talk about electronics to mitigate harshness and so on is a moot point when the music itself is harsh.
> 
> ...


 

 Oh, finally someone who loves Metal music and has experience with various Stax models. I'm planning to get the 007 since I was told it pairs well with Metal music. can you confirm that? What do you think about it?
  
 Best, Pete


----------



## Music Alchemist

vgoghs earfrmsc said:


> Has anyone got news of these anywhere.
> 
> http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/blog/?p=20418
> 
> Can't find much, are they for Japanese market and different voltage to the UK?


 
  
 We've only been talking about it in this thread since the beginning of the month. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The release date is October 23rd. PriceJapan.com is selling them now. The headphones work with any Pro bias electrostatic amps. As for the amp, I believe its voltage is determined by where you get it from. You'll probably want to get a voltage transformer to safely use it in your country.
  


peti said:


> Oh, finally someone who loves Metal music and has experience with various Stax models. I'm planning to get the 007 since I was told it pairs well with Metal music. can you confirm that? What do you think about it?
> 
> Best, Pete


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/715478/headphones-for-metal-music-ultimate-solution
  
 Personally I'm more interested in the SR-009, but want the SR-007 too.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Is the SRM-353X much better than the SRM-323S? For an SR-009, in case that matters.
 --------------------------------------------------------------
 Also, I don't know the appropriate thread to ask this, but is there a thread where people post images of their PC+audio gear and how they've set it up on a desk? I'm definitely gonna need to get new desk(s) for my incoming audio equipment, so examples would help.
  
 My apologies for the off-topic question.


----------



## mulveling

Practically nobody has even heard the 353X yet, but I wouldn't bet on it. The 009 deserves a far better amp than what Stax stuffs into those little boxes and prices.
  
 And as for 007 pairing relatively better with metal -- well I've seen just that one person's opinion / preference. I'd hazard that most who prefer the 009 over 007 prefer it for all genres of music, myself included. I certainly don't find the 007 MK I relatively better in any particular genre. The 007 does improve a WHOLE lot across the board if you get to the BHSE or DIY T2 level. We'll see how it does with the Carbon, but I'm way more interested in the 009 pairing.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulveling said:


> And as for 007 pairing relatively better with metal -- well I've seen just that one person's opinion / preference.


 
  
 Who would that be?


----------



## Lan647

IMO, the 007s slightly fuller tone is more enjoyable with metal. It just gives more weight and body to the guitars.


----------



## astrostar59

lan647 said:


> IMO, the 007s slightly fuller tone is more enjoyable with metal. It just gives more weight and body to the guitars.


 

 IMO the 007 was designed to mask bright front ends and DACs (the mass market situation). Also the Stax amps are bright / thin / cold with the 009s and Lambdas, less with the 007s.
 To get the best from the 007 IMO it needs a smoother and more lively amp (more juice, better parts count). Then it opens up a LOT. I enjoy the 007A with a KGSShv.
 TBH the 009 and the 007A have positives. But the killer blow with the 009 is pace, detail and soundstage width. The 007 for all it's warm and fuller (I would say tubbier) bass
 it mask the inner truth too much and sound to slow in comparison. It does have enough great points to keep on owning it, just not in the top tier IMO.
  
 The 009 requires a really good source and a better amp than Stax can provide. It them leaves the Planars in the dust IMO.


----------



## Earspeakers

If you listen along the line of Stax headphones they walk a line between clarity and warmth. Leaving out the electrets, early on in the Normal line (e.g. SR-3) you hear a nice balance between clarity and warmth. Later with the Lambdas they went for thinner diaphragms, and incidentally greater clarity. Some perceived this as 'etch' and so then they seemingly backpedaled on the Nova and early Omegas, including the 007. Later in the line you can hear them striking a better balance, to my ears the 404 (in particular the LE) is the pinnacle. The 404LE and SRM-600LE is an extraordinary combination, probably the best for general listening if I had to pick. The 007 and Nova are the warmest, artificially so in my opinion, almost like a dynamic. 
  
 This leaves out the 4070, Sigma and 009 (and T2) which are in classes by themselves. The 009 is of course remarkable, but I still haven't found how to tame it quite. 
  
 Edit: I should say, the 007mk1 (Carbon Box) is even more warm and 'flobby' compared to the 007mk2, and you hear the same in the Lambda line. So again you can hear them trying to strike a balance between clarity and warmth and is supportive of that timeline. With the modern Lambdas and the 009 you hear a new factor being introduced which is energy, or 'oohm-pah'. Don't know what they did that enabled this, probably the diaphragm coating and tension, but the modern phones are less refined than the older. It could also be aging, I'm not sure, as my older phones were obviously used. One bit in support of this theory is that I did get a NOS 404 Signature, which also has that ooh-pah character to a lesser degree. So it could also be that Stax headphones relax and refine as they get older, not sure.


----------



## astrostar59

earspeakers said:


> This leaves out the 4070, Sigma and 009 (and T2) which are in classes by themselves. The 009 is of course remarkable, but I still haven't found how to tame it quite.


 
 What DAC are you using? What amplifier? The 009 is very transparent, and gives everything anyone could want IMO BUT it requires a rock solid (read smooth) front and, it you will suffer the consequences. To me, it is only delivering what it in the source, plain and in your face. It is a bit like listening to 100K speaker near field - load. Sounds amazing till the source let you know where the warts are....
  
 Back to Stax amps, (wish we didn't have to) but anyway, I noticed a change in timbre and dynamics as the volume was advanced on both my 007s and my 009s with both my SRM-323 and SRM-717. It says to me that the power reserve and voltage swing is suffering. The whole design is built to a budget IMO and strangling the phones. I don't see any Stax amps avoiding that IMO, old or current (apart the T2 - which I haven't heard, but am trusting those who have).


----------



## Earspeakers

astrostar59 said:


> What DAC are you using?


 
  
 A great variety, including vintage Stax CDP's. I hear little differences in DAC's, compared to easily heard characteristics of amps and headphones. 
  


> What amplifier?


 
  
 amplifier*s*, basically almost every one Stax made, and most of the Mafia (still finishing the T2 and haven't started the Carbon yet). 
  
  


> The 009 is very transparent, and gives everything anyone could want IMO BUT it requires a rock solid (read smooth) front and, it you will suffer the consequences. To me, it is only delivering what it in the source, plain and in your face. It is a bit like listening to 100K speaker near field - load. Sounds amazing till the source let you know where the warts are....


 
  
 For absolute transparency the Lambda Signatures (several around that vintage) reign supreme. The 009 brings in dynamics and 3D holographic projection. 
  


> Back to Stax amps, (wish we didn't have to) but anyway, I noticed a change in timbre and dynamics as the volume was advanced on both my 007s and my 009s with both my SRM-323 and SRM-717. It says to me that the power reserve and voltage swing is suffering. The whole design is built to a budget IMO and strangling the phones.


 
  
 The 717 is an interesting beast, the least Staxen of them all. A hybrid Mafia-Stax design and has characteristics of both, probably from the Stax PS and Mafia front end. The 323 is pure modern Stax. 
  


> I don't see any Stax amps avoiding that IMO, old or current (apart the T2 - which I haven't heard, but am trusting those who have).


 
  
 The 600 AFAI can tell, and most of the amps with Normal headphones. I get the feeling that Stax never quite transitioned their amps from Normal to to Pro in terms of drive. It's highly source dependent though so am still forming an opinion on this. 
  
 This discussion highlights why I scoff at Sennheiser making a 'stat. Who cares? They've got what, 2 or 3 of them now? All one offs. Stax has been researching and doing this for 70 years.


----------



## astrostar59

earspeakers said:


> A great variety, including vintage Stax CDP's. I hear little differences in DAC's, compared to easily heard characteristics of amps and headphones.


 
 I disagree. Many do as well, some don't. It comes down to exposure to higher end DACs or R-2R IMO. DS mid range do I agree sound the same i. 'hifi' cold and harsh ( IMO).
  
 Ask the Yggy guys or TotalDAC over on the other threads, see what they think about how good (better) a DAC can sound and the affect on the final music you hear.
  
 IMO the DAC + The Amplifier + The Phones all affect the sound in equal measure. The DAC has a huge influence on treble quality and soundstage, dynamics. In fact anything that is relevant to an amplifier also applies to a DAC, because basically a DAC is a pre-amplifier with a digital board added. The problem is many manufacturers don't get it, they design a half decent digital board with pathetically weak gain stage and poor power supplies. We all know how that affects the sound.....


----------



## Lan647

earspeakers said:


> If you listen along the line of Stax headphones they walk a line between clarity and warmth. Leaving out the electrets, early on in the Normal line (e.g. SR-3) you hear a nice balance between clarity and warmth. Later with the Lambdas they went for thinner diaphragms, and incidentally greater clarity. Some perceived this as 'etch' and so then they seemingly backpedaled on the Nova and early Omegas, including the 007. Later in the line you can hear them striking a better balance, to my ears the 404 (in particular the LE) is the pinnacle. The 404LE and SRM-600LE is an extraordinary combination, probably the best for general listening if I had to pick. The 007 and Nova are the warmest, artificially so in my opinion, almost like a dynamic.
> 
> This leaves out the 4070, Sigma and 009 (and T2) which are in classes by themselves. The 009 is of course remarkable, but I still haven't found how to tame it quite.
> 
> Edit: I should say, the 007mk1 (Carbon Box) is even more warm and 'flobby' compared to the 007mk2, and you hear the same in the Lambda line. So again you can hear them trying to strike a balance between clarity and warmth and is supportive of that timeline. With the modern Lambdas and the 009 you hear a new factor being introduced which is energy, or 'oohm-pah'. Don't know what they did that enabled this, probably the diaphragm coating and tension, but the modern phones are less refined than the older. It could also be aging, I'm not sure, as my older phones were obviously used. One bit in support of this theory is that I did get a NOS 404 Signature, which also has that ooh-pah character to a lesser degree. So it could also be that Stax headphones relax and refine as they get older, not sure.


 

 If you hear the 007 mk1 as flobby, then you aren't driving them well... even with the 717 I have here, they sound very good. With a modified 717/727/007T or even better they sound fantastic and better than the 009 to my ears. Both headphones are great with fantastic detail and refinement, but the 007 is just more involving IMO.


----------



## astrostar59

lan647 said:


> If you hear the 007 mk1 as flobby, then you aren't driving them well... even with the 717 I have here, they sound very good. With a modified 717/727/007T or even better they sound fantastic and better than the 009 to my ears. Both headphones are great with fantastic detail and refinement, but the 007 is just more involving IMO.


 
 I was saying flabby in the bass. By that I mean (driven by my KGSShv) as slight bass bloat and hump, I guess around 80-120hz. Listen to the speed and texture of the bass in the 009. It is ruler flat to me, more texture and more tuneful. The 007 is lethargic and laboured compared. In isolation, the 007A sounds great on my KGSShv I agree. It is just the 009 has more transparency in the bass, along with texture. If we go into the midrange and treble it is the same.
  
 I am convinced (I won't be swayed) that the 007 was designed around the DAC sound of the 1990-2000 era. The majority of DS DACs in use from that era are slightly bright and digital sounding. The 007 pulls them back to neutral and a warmer stance. But with a smooth and transparent DAC it is another layer in the way to me.
  
 Anyway, it is great to have so many different views here. IMO it is taste, but also system synergy, as as you go up the levels the signature of each component gets more important and has more impact. The 007 is at a lower level than the 009 i.e. less resolving and less of everything - except the bass hump...


----------



## preproman

lan647 said:


> If you hear the 007 mk1 as flobby, then you aren't driving them well... even with the 717 I have here, they sound very good. With a modified 717/727/007T or even better they sound fantastic and better than the 009 to my ears. Both headphones are great with fantastic detail and refinement, but the 007 is just more involving IMO.


 
  
 I agree hear.  With the 007 mk1s on the BHSE there is no flabby bass at all that I've heard.  In fact, for the times I heard both the 007 mk1 and the 009 on the BHSE at the same time - I kinda liked the 007 mk1s on that amp best.  I still think the 009s are a superior headphone.  But it seems the BHSE was made for the 007 mk1s because they go together like a hat and a glove.
  
 I have to reevaluate the 007 mk2s again once my amps get in, but if IIRC the 007 mk2 were more on the warm side compared to the 007 mk1s.  I will see, just how they differ.  
  
 As far as DACs goes, once you get to a certain level of high end - In ways it really doesn't matter if it DS or R2R.  The Bricasti M1 is DS DAC and is no slouch not by far.


----------



## astrostar59

Try the Audio Note DAC 5 or the TotalDAC Dual. That is the next level IMO. Yes, some high end DS, but they leave me cold. But we all have different tastes....


----------



## Lan647

astrostar59 said:


> I was saying flabby in the bass. By that I mean (driven by my KGSShv) as slight bass bloat and hump, I guess around 80-120hz. Listen to the speed and texture of the bass in the 009. It is ruler flat to me, more texture and more tuneful. The 007 is lethargic and laboured compared. In isolation, the 007A sounds great on my KGSShv I agree. It is just the 009 has more transparency in the bass, along with texture. If we go into the midrange and treble it is the same.
> 
> I am convinced (I won't be swayed) that the 007 was designed around the DAC sound of the 1990-2000 era. The majority of DS DACs in use from that era are slightly bright and digital sounding. The 007 pulls them back to neutral and a warmer stance. But with a smooth and transparent DAC it is another layer in the way to me.
> 
> Anyway, it is great to have so many different views here. IMO it is taste, but also system synergy, as as you go up the levels the signature of each component gets more important and has more impact. The 007 is at a lower level than the 009 i.e. less resolving and less of everything - except the bass hump...


 

 My comment was in response to "Earspeakers". 

 Two things. One, 007A and 007 mk1 are NOT the same. Secondly, you and I have had this conversation before and we'll just have to conclude that we have different views on the subject. If you like the 009 more, that's fantastic and I have zero problems with it. But if I'm not mistaken you're using a tube DAC, which in my head means there is a good chance you have a different-flavored front end than mine. At the end of the day, there is not a HUGE difference between the 007 mk1 (again, not 007A or 007 SZ3, different headphones) and the 009 when comparing the two directly, and a tonal shift in the signal chain may make wonders for the 009, filling up that bass a little bit and toning down the brightness a little bit. The same rig may have a negative effect on the 007, causing it too sound too dark and full, muffling up some detail maybe.


----------



## preproman

I owned the TotalDac Dual at the same time I owned the Bricasti M1.  The TotalDac Dual cost more than the M1.  Both does things better than the other.  Being harsh, hard, strident, shrill is not something that either does.
  
 I heard the Audio Note 5 signature at an audio show in DC.  At the time it was one  the best DAC I ever heard.  The cost of that DAC is more than I'm willing to pay.  Today the EMM DAC2X is the best DAC I've heard.  That's saying something, because I've had more than a few to come across my door step.


----------



## Earspeakers

lan647 said:


> If you hear the 007 mk1 as flobby, then you aren't driving them well... even with the 717 I have here, they sound very good. With a modified 717/727/007T or even better they sound fantastic and better than the 009 to my ears. Both headphones are great with fantastic detail and refinement, but the 007 is just more involving IMO.


 
  
 Using them with KGST/KGSSHV/717/600/*DA-80* (transformer coupled) etc etc, and with a Pawel HP-1 mk2 and mk3. Hard to argue to I don't have enough Stax amps  to test with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Anyhow flobby is just a word, could mean anything. I use it in comparison to the other Stax. Listening to them all on a large variety of equipment as I do I hear the 007's and Nova in a niche that Stax otherwise stayed out of. The polar opposite of that is the 4070 which they also only did once. Regardless the point being on the Stax factory tour the leadership expressed that their aim is transparency, and if you listen to all of their gear I think it's clear that has been their goal, with the 007/Nova in a category of their own.   
  
 The 007 1/2 and Nova aren't my absolute favorites but I listen to them a lot, along with the rest. Obviously many others like them quite a lot more.


----------



## Music Alchemist

astrostar59 said:


> I disagree. Many do as well, some don't. It comes down to exposure to higher end DACs or R-2R IMO. DS mid range do I agree sound the same i. 'hifi' cold and harsh ( IMO).
> 
> Ask the Yggy guys or TotalDAC over on the other threads, see what they think about how good (better) a DAC can sound and the affect on the final music you hear.
> 
> IMO the DAC + The Amplifier + The Phones all affect the sound in equal measure. The DAC has a huge influence on treble quality and soundstage, dynamics. In fact anything that is relevant to an amplifier also applies to a DAC, because basically a DAC is a pre-amplifier with a digital board added. The problem is many manufacturers don't get it, they design a half decent digital board with pathetically weak gain stage and poor power supplies. We all know how that affects the sound.....


 
  
 So the Yggdrasil lives up to your standards? Because that's the only higher-end DAC I plan on getting, until I can afford the MSB SELECT DAC in the distant future. I'm also wondering about which specs I should be looking at as regards the preamp issue.


----------



## sensui123

It's kinda of strange to see so many of the STAX crowd not be privy to the advantages of high end DACs.  Yes it makes a huge difference especially when you play at these levels as the tonality of high end DACs differ.  It goes far beyond the design of the DAC or the chips to say whether a DAC is good or not.  You'd have to audition yourself and see if it makes sense in your specific chain to yield the best results.


----------



## David1961

Although this post probably belongs on a different thread, in it does involve the use of my 009/BHSE, which is.
  
 When first getting my source which is an SACD/DAC, I planned only to use it with Discs, however after a suggestion and help from friend astrostar59, I started using a MacMini as music server with that sources DAC, and since doing that I've only been listening to CD's occasionally, so I feel my next audio piece will more than likely be a DAC only.
  
 Now while somewhat premature, I've been looking at different DAC's and the one that is said to surpass my SACD/DAC [ K-01 ] in SQ, that I also like the look of is the CH Precision C1.
 Apparently that DAC users 4 Burr-Brown 1704 R-2R chips, and will also work with my MacMini.
  
 The UK distributor of CH Precision is in Sheffield, which is around 25 miles from where I live, so I've been in contact with them and have arranged a home audition with the CH-P C1 on the 23rd of this month, so I'll be using that C1 DAC with my 009/BHSE.
 In this audition I'll obviously be comparing the C1 with my K-01, but I'm doing it mainly to find out whether the C1 is worth saving for, and if it is,  then I've got some saving to do, and for sometime, however headphone listening is a very big passion of mine, so I'd be more than happy to start saving.


----------



## joseph69

david1961 said:


> Now while somewhat premature, I've been looking at different DAC's and the one that is said to surpass my SACD/DAC [ K-01 ] in SQ, that I also like the look of is the* CH Precision C1*.
> Apparently that DAC users 4 Burr-Brown 1704 R-2R chips, and will also work with my MacMini.


 





$
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




$
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




$


----------



## Music Alchemist

joseph69 said:


> $
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 http://www.msbtech.com/products/dacSelectDetail.php?Page=dacSelect


----------



## bigfatpaulie

david1961 said:


> Although this post probably belongs on a different thread, in it does involve the use of my 009/BHSE, which is.
> 
> When first getting my source which is an SACD/DAC, I planned only to use it with Discs, however after a suggestion and help from friend astrostar59, I started using a MacMini as music server with that sources DAC, and since doing that I've only been listening to CD's occasionally, so I feel my next audio piece will more than likely be a DAC only.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This should prove to be a very interesting comparison.  Looking forward to it!


----------



## joseph69

music alchemist said:


> http://www.msbtech.com/products/dacSelectDetail.php?Page=dacSelect


 
 RIDICULOUS!


----------



## Music Alchemist

joseph69 said:


> RIDICULOUS!


 
  
 The descriptions make me want them so bad, though. haha
  
 http://www.msbtech.com/products/dacSelect.php
 http://www.msbtech.com/products/femto.php


----------



## comzee

music alchemist said:


> The descriptions make me want them so bad, though. haha
> 
> http://www.msbtech.com/products/dacSelect.php
> http://www.msbtech.com/products/femto.php


 
  
 28.5 Effective bits
 Femto 33 clock
 Quad rate USB
 Hybrid DAC modules
 Dual select Power Base
  
Damn


----------



## Lan647

Let's see, a stupid DAC or a Ferrari... not a particularly difficult choice


----------



## Music Alchemist

lan647 said:


> Let's see, a stupid DAC or a Ferrari... not a particularly difficult choice


 

 Not difficult at all. I'd choose the DAC in a heartbeat. Only the best DAC for my lo-fi black metal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (Though Ferraris and other supercars cost far more. I stopped caring about fancy cars a few years ago, anyway. I work from home and don't even use a car now.)


----------



## Jodet

I bought a Chord 2Qute to use in my main 2-channel system and it sounds so good on my headphone setup that I just keep it there.


----------



## David1961

joseph69 said:


> $
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've seen the CH-Precision C1 DAC priced at $32,975, however the USB board needed in order to use the MacMini is an optional extra, which will obviously add to that cost.
  
 For a lot of us [ myself included ]  $32,975 is a large amount of money, and for me would take a long time saving, but I would sooner save that money needed and get something I really wanted.
  
 I also had a look at the Trinity DAC, but at around $60,000 I'd have to win the lottery, that won't happen though because I no longer do it.
  
  
 P.S. This audition with the C1 isn't because I'm unhappy with the K-01, because I am, it's just that while the K-01 is extremely detailed and transparent, I would say it could do with being a little more musical, which apparently the C1 is, as well as supposedly being very detailed and transparent.


----------



## milosz

Interesting to see a DAC claiming over 170 dB dynamic range.   ( http://www.msbtech.com/products/dacSelect.php )
  
 A typical symphony hall has a background noise level between 35 and 50 dB.  5 meters in front of a typical symphony orchestra, max SPL is almost never above 100 dB.  And, of course, further back, say at row 25, it would be lower.
  
 So if a symphony has a dynamic range of 60 to 50 dB, how exactly does a 170 dB dynamic range add to the reproduction of music?
  
 It's remarkable to create such a DAC, but I'm not convinced that this approach will lead to the best sound.


----------



## Music Alchemist

david1961 said:


> I also had a look at the Trinity DAC, but at around $60,000 I'd have to win the lottery, that won't happen though because I no longer do it.


 
  
 I've read a lot about the TRINITY DAC. Some like it more than the dCS Vivaldi!
  


milosz said:


> Interesting to see a DAC claiming over 170 dB dynamic range.   ( http://www.msbtech.com/products/dacSelect.php )
> 
> A typical symphony hall has a background noise level between 35 and 50 dB.  5 meters in front of a typical symphony orchestra, max SPL is almost never above 100 dB.  And, of course, further back, say at row 25, it would be lower.
> 
> ...


 
  
 DR is but one of countless factors. At any rate, having more than enough won't hurt anything.


----------



## astrostar59

music alchemist said:


> The descriptions make me want them so bad, though. haha
> 
> http://www.msbtech.com/products/dacSelect.php
> http://www.msbtech.com/products/femto.php


 

 I hate the design of that website, it looks totally amateurish. I do respect MSB for leading the charge in DAC technology, but to me it yet another company that has some good products at sane prices, then start taking chemicals and goes all ballistic on pricing. How the hell they can say they spent that much on parts and development on that DAC. It makes no sense. It is for oil shieks,  footballers, or rappers on even more chemicals.
  
 Sorry, I hate this part of our hobby. I love companies like TotalDAC that lead a different charge and ask fair money for a great product.
  
 TBH if anyone was to buy that MSB thing, they are beyond help IMO.


----------



## karlgerman

As i know a r2r DAC like PAVANE, maybe MUSETTE or a TOTALDAC will be best counterpart ti your K-01.
 Most of the reviews about those dac´s desribe as smoother/"more musical" (whatever that means) without loosing any detail in music.
  
 The ultimate would be a MSB for sure. But all of that glorious description about this DAC i read in every review about any expensive DAC on the market.
 After reading i was always in a mood for a change!
 Already having a 24.000 $ DAC i might be too influenced by fancy companies!!!


----------



## astrostar59

karlgerman said:


> As i know a r2r DAC like PAVANE, maybe MUSETTE or a TOTALDAC will be best counterpart ti your K-01.
> Most of the reviews about those dac´s desribe as smoother/"more musical" (whatever that means) without loosing any detail in music.
> 
> The ultimate would be a MSB for sure. But all of that glorious description about this DAC i read in every review about any expensive DAC on the market.
> ...


 

*karlgerman*
 I would be fascinated in your opinion on hearing an R-2R DAC. I swopped to this type a few years ago and have never looked back. I can hear and appreciate what great DS DACs done right can do. However, IMO they sound a bit technical and false somehow. It is the treble quality I find inaccurate. To make matters worse IMO most DS DACs are solid state with poor amplifier sections. I am not saying SS can't sound great, but tubed units seems to get closer to the music IMO. Regardless of the tube v SS argument, I think most high end systems need a tubed unit in the chain i.e tubed DAC or pre-amplifier. If we go SS right through IMO it all goes a bit plastic and cold, it leaves me emotionless.
  
 Going back the the R-2R V DS subject.
  
*So, IMO there are 3 aspects to this subject:*
  
 1. The conversion method on the digital board
  
 2. The type, design and quality of the power supplies
  
 3. The quality and care taken in the amplification section, dealing with the fragile and low level signal to bring it up to line level to correctly drive the next stage.
  
 A perfect amplifier stage would have limitless power reserve and zero output impedance. Believe it or not, way to many (expensive) DACs have a pitifully poor and badly designed amplification section, instead obsessing about the chip board and 'tech specs' such as SNR and dynamic range. Pretty meaningless if the amplifier is not doing it's job....
  
 I would question any high end DAC (10K+) and look if that same company, see if it makes great pre-amplifiers as well. If not, how can they make a great DAC, as a DAC is essentially a pre-amplifier with a digital board inside.
  
 Also, in the serious money bracket, is that company going to be around in 3 or more years? What about warranty and repairs? What about firmware updates and even hardware updates.
  
 Complicated but also fascinating subject.


----------



## icebear

milosz said:


> ...
> So if a symphony has a dynamic range of 60 to 50 dB, how exactly does a 170 dB dynamic range add to the reproduction of music?
> ...


 
 LOL, this is not about the music, it's about the numbers and the bigger the better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Do you decide on your gear by listening or do your buy the best specs?
 Trust the marketing


----------



## barid

icebear said:


> LOL, this is not about the music, it's about the numbers and the bigger the better
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Shhh...just got buy a $6,000 DAC.  Anything less would be a joke.


----------



## bearFNF

barid said:


> Shhh...just got buy a $6,000 DAC.  Anything less would be a joke.



You mean $60,000 DAC right?


----------



## Music Alchemist

astrostar59 said:


> I hate the design of that website, it looks totally amateurish. I do respect MSB for leading the charge in DAC technology, but to me it yet another company that has some good products at sane prices, then start taking chemicals and goes all ballistic on pricing. How the hell they can say they spent that much on parts and development on that DAC. It makes no sense. It is for oil shieks,  footballers, or rappers on even more chemicals.
> 
> Sorry, I hate this part of our hobby. I love companies like TotalDAC that lead a different charge and ask fair money for a great product.
> 
> TBH if anyone was to buy that MSB thing, they are beyond help IMO.


 
  
 Yup, I'm pretty hopeless. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But is there a _better_ (as in more accurate) DAC than that one? That is the question.


----------



## astrostar59

music alchemist said:


> Yup, I'm pretty hopeless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I would say probably. Lets put the digital conversion circuit to one side for a moment. What is the power supply like? What is the line board (analogue amplifier section) like?
 Could this be a world class pre-amplifier is my point. If it can, then yes, those MSB digital boards could make this a world leader.
  
 Myself, I doubt it, I am thinking it could be yet another great digital board in a poorly designed pre-amplifier (in a fancy case).
 To prove me wrong, lets see some interior photos and a schematic, show that massively over spec'ed power supply and those incredible gain stages...
  
 Please prove me wrong someone, show me how this 80K DAC is the best thing ever!


----------



## NoPants

You have no idea what you're talking about


----------



## Music Alchemist

astrostar59 said:


> I would say probably. Lets put the digital conversion circuit to one side for a moment. What is the power supply like? What is the line board (analogue amplifier section) like?
> Could this be a world class pre-amplifier is my point. If it can, then yes, those MSB digital boards could make this a world leader.
> 
> Myself, I doubt it, I am thinking it could be yet another great digital board in a poorly designed pre-amplifier (in a fancy case).
> ...


 
  
 Please link me to documentation supporting this claim of yours that the preamp in a DAC is so important.
  
 There are _two_ power supplies, all with supposedly better specs than the power supplies in their other DACs, and MSB DACs are regarded as among the best, so...


----------



## bigfatpaulie

<Yawn>


----------



## Jones Bob

Back to Stax please.


----------



## edstrelow

milosz said:


> Interesting to see a DAC claiming over 170 dB dynamic range.   ( http://www.msbtech.com/products/dacSelect.php )
> 
> A typical symphony hall has a background noise level between 35 and 50 dB.  5 meters in front of a typical symphony orchestra, max SPL is almost never above 100 dB.  And, of course, further back, say at row 25, it would be lower.
> 
> ...


----------



## Music Alchemist

So does anyone feel that STAX have accurate weight and body to the instruments while planar magnetics have too much?


----------



## comzee

music alchemist said:


> So does anyone feel that STAX have accurate weight and body to the instruments while planar magnetics have too much?


 
 Depends on the source I'd figure


----------



## Music Alchemist

comzee said:


> Depends on the source I'd figure


 
  
 Let's assume all conditions are ideal. Do you feel that STAX have more accurate "weight" than planar magnetics?
  
 Here's what my best friend had to say on the issue:
  


> It probably stems from the fact that planar magnetics use a thicker and heavier membrane in their drivers than the lighter membranes in electrostats. It's reasonably well accepted that with proper engineering and all else being equal, the thinner the membrane, the more accurate the sound. So how does one defend their precious planar magnetic headphones? By suggesting that their headphones provide a "weightier" sound. That's like waving your hand through water compared to air, or watching Usain Bolt sprint against you or myself. Yes, we could do a good job, but in comparison, we'd be much slower and technically non-proficient. Personal experience has demonstrated to me time and time again that electrostats can produce rich and most liquid sound when required and is far from airy whereas planar magnetics can never reach the heights of clarity and transparency that an electrostatic headphone can offer... but that's just one man's opinion.


----------



## comzee

music alchemist said:


> Here's what my best friend had to say on the issue:


 
 The source part was actually jesting about all the DAC talk in this thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As for that comparison, I'd have no idea. I've never heard a planar magnetic driver.
  
 Although, I hate the comparison. The only reason to use a simile in the first place is that it makes sense. His does not.
 I'm not saying it's right/wrong, just doesn't make sense.
  
 It's like saying using thinner strings on a guitar are better, because they can produce a more accurite sound.................. I can't type enough dots, it's just how ridiculous that simile was.............


----------



## Keithpgdrb

music alchemist said:


> So does anyone feel that STAX have accurate weight and body to the instruments while planar magnetics have too much?


 

 Depends I suppose.  does anyone really KNOW what the album they are listening is "supposed" to sound like?  You would have to be the engineer to know that.  So we pretty much just make sure the areas that we feel are important are dialed in.  we can compare cans to each other, but we never really know which one is right.
  
 having said that, I have always preferred the tonality of electrostats in giving me a true representation of what i feel instruments should sound like.  I enjoy that planar fat sound though.


----------



## Music Alchemist

comzee said:


> The source part was actually jesting about all the DAC talk in this thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I see what you mean. I'm a guitarist (and vocalist, pianist, trombonist...) myself. Maybe I should ask him for more documentation concerning this "thinner is more accurate" issue.
  


keithpgdrb said:


> Depends I suppose.  does anyone really KNOW what the album they are listening is "supposed" to sound like?  You would have to be the engineer to know that.  So we pretty much just make sure the areas that we feel are important are dialed in.  we can compare cans to each other, but we never really know which one is right.


 
  
 Well, this relates more to listening to a lot of music and gaining insights from the general sound, without having to know exactly how a given recording is supposed to sound like. All I know is that electrostats sound much more transparent to me. My philosophy is that if it sounds more realistic to me, then it's more accurate, assuming the recording is of sufficient quality. However, the SR-207 for example _was_ lacking a bit of weight to the instruments, but only slightly.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

music alchemist said:


> I see what you mean. I'm a guitarist (and vocalist, pianist, trombonist...) myself. Maybe I should ask him for more documentation concerning this "thinner is more accurate" issue.
> 
> 
> Well, this relates more to listening to a lot of music and gaining insights from the general sound, without having to know exactly how a given recording is supposed to sound like. All I know is that electrostats sound much more transparent to me. My philosophy is that if it sounds more realistic to me, then it's more accurate, assuming the recording is of sufficient quality. However, the SR-207 for example _was_ lacking a bit of weight to the instruments, but only slightly.


 

 you may have said this already, but what amp did you use the 207 with?  I think the stock packaged amp is lacking.  I use the srm1mk2 with my lambdas.


----------



## Music Alchemist

keithpgdrb said:


> you may have said this already, but what amp did you use the 207 with?  I think the stock packaged amp is lacking.  I use the srm1mk2 with my lambdas.


 
  
 Yeah, I wasn't able to use it with a higher-end amp. Only an SRM-212. Still sounded phenomenal!
  
 Although the sound quality of the SR-30 was nowhere near as good as the SR-207, I thought the SR-30 rocked harder.


----------



## astrostar59

music alchemist said:


> Please link me to documentation supporting this claim of yours that the preamp in a DAC is so important.
> 
> There are _two_ power supplies, all with supposedly better specs than the power supplies in their other DACs, and MSB DACs are regarded as among the best, so...


 

 I see, so you don't think getting the signal into analogue then amplifying it and sending it to the next device is important. Maybe we just put a great digital board into a 99US preamplifier then, and save all the money.
  
 Dude, the signals at ground level i.e. at the start of the conversion is absolutely important. The signal are tiny, and then have to get amplified to make it out to line out. Some DACs don't even bother with a gain stage, or an pre-amplifier as such, rather a buffer stage or pop amp. We all know what they sound like....
  
 Think of every device creating music as having a gain stage, then you will understand.


----------



## ahnafakeef

What kind of differences can be expected on an SR-009 when used via XLR balanced vs single-ended RCA? Thank you.
 -----------------------------------------
 Also, I found this on hifiplus.com. I'm new to audio gears, but I've always been told to focus on the headphones over everything else. So, how much of the following excerpt about the SR-009 is true?


> One point to be aware of, though, is that the Stax has very little sound of its own, so that it behaves much like a sonic chameleon, reflecting the various tonal colours and characteristics of the components used to drive it.


----------



## milosz

edstrelow said:


> It might prevent clipping of dynamic peaks of the orchestra or even individual instruments.  I once sat in a symphony concert with a high quality Bruell and Kjaer sound level meter and was struck by how uneven the momentary sound levels were, especially  compared to listening to recorded music through loudspeakers.  Even individual instruments could cause brief massive  swings in volume level.  If you set the dynamic range too low you might lose these peaks, even though the average sound levels are within lower limits.   I see nothing wrong with some over-engineering as long as it doesn't cost too much.
> 
> What exactly would you recommend, a dynamic range of 50-60 dB?


 
  
 No, but pointing to a 170 dB dynamic range and claiming it makes the DAC audibly superior to typical ~120 dB DACs is a marketing lie. 
  
 You said that having a 170 dB dynamic range prevents clipping on orchestral peaks, so you're saying that orchestral peaks exist that are beyond the 110~120 dB dynamic range of a typical good DAC. Can you please tell me which orchestra is capable of such SPL's? If you need 170 dB of dynamic range to reproduce the peaks, I'd like to point out that exposure of even a few milliseconds to a 150 dB SPL will result in total deafness to any listener so exposed.
  
 In addition, in order to use the full 170 dB dynamic range of such converters, you would need to be playing recordings that are at least 30 bits wide throughout their entire recording chain-history.  There is no microphone / preamp combination made that has a dynamic range wider than about 120 dB. So, no recordings exist of acoustic sounds with dynamic range beyond 120 dB, no matter the bit width.  Electronic music - generated by digital means directly to a bit stream- certainly could have a 170 dB dynamic range. (In fact it could have any bit width)
  
 Given that even the best home systems struggle to achieve outputs much higher than about 100~110 dB across the entire audio band, a recording with 170 dB of dynamic range would have to be set for it's max level to be at the max level that the playback system is capable of, let's say 120 dB (probably achievable by a good headphone setup) so the 0 dB level of the playback system would be 50 dB above the 0 dB level of the 170 dB DAC, meaning 50 dB of dynamic range that isn't possibly audible.
  
 We need also to consider background noise levels. In a quiet home, background noise is about 40 dB, maybe as low as 30 dB. (http://www.industrialnoisecontrol.com/comparative-noise-examples.htm) so, with a playback system capable of 120 dB maximum, we actually have 80~90 of AUDIBLE DYNAMIC RANGE. 
  
 ALL OF THIS points to the fact that the ~120 dB dynamic range of modern DACs is perfectly adequate, and 170 dB dynamic range provides no audible benefit.
  
 It COULD be argued that a DAC which shows a 170 dB dynamic range is so well engineered that all other kinds of distortion must be essentially also eliminated.  However, I don't think this follows at all.  170 dB S/N is the figure quoted and ONLY represents dynamic range capability, there's no _objective_ reason to think that other kinds of distortion are of a similarly low order.
  
 I will bet you, however, that if someone believes their DAC has a 170 dB dynamic range that it will sound better to them, thanks to placebo effect.  Of course the placebo effect vanishes in blind listening comparisons, but most audiophiles willing pay large sums to be convinced their gizmo sounds better and so discount any blind listening comparisons.
  
 Since this is a STAX thread, I will now point out that a Stax transducer has about a 100 dB dynamic range over which it is linear.


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

Let's assume all conditions are ideal. Do you feel that STAX have more accurate "weight" than planar magnetics?
  
 Here's what my best friend had to say on the issue:
  


> It probably stems from the fact that planar magnetics use a thicker and heavier membrane in their drivers than the lighter membranes in electrostats. It's reasonably well accepted that with proper engineering and all else being equal, the thinner the membrane, the more accurate the sound. So how does one defend their precious planar magnetic headphones? By suggesting that their headphones provide a "weightier" sound. That's like waving your hand through water compared to air, or watching Usain Bolt sprint against you or myself. Yes, we could do a good job, but in comparison, we'd be much slower and technically non-proficient. Personal experience has demonstrated to me time and time again that electrostats can produce rich and most liquid sound when required and is far from airy whereas planar magnetics can never reach the heights of clarity and transparency that an electrostatic headphone can offer... but that's just one man's opinion.


 
 Hifiman HE1000 has a membrane of 1 nanometre, isn't stax's larger than that.


----------



## Music Alchemist

vgoghs earfrmsc said:


> Hifiman HE1000 has a membrane of 1 nanometre, isn't stax's larger than that.


 
  
 The HE1000 is a planar magnetic headphone. No matter how thin its diaphragm is, it has _metal_ on it, making it far more dense and heavier than electrostats. (Which have diaphragms that weigh less than the air around it!) To my ears, even low-end STAX sounds more transparent than the HE1000. Also, I have not seen confirmation of this "one nanometer" figure. All I see is marketing that says "nanometer grade thickness"...


----------



## Jones Bob

But the HE1000 has a 1.5T magnet flux. Stax has a 0.0T flux! 

Seriously, agree with you about the misleading spec of diaphragm thickness between orthodynamics and electrostatics. Apples and oranges, mentioned only to deceive.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

What does thickness have to do with anything?  Sounds like marking mumbo-jumbo...
  
 WEIGHT, for sure.  If something has less mass (read: weight) it has less inertia so it would be easier to accelerate/decelerate making it, I suppose, more receptive to quick changes in frequency.


----------



## Music Alchemist

bigfatpaulie said:


> What does thickness have to do with anything?  Sounds like marking mumbo-jumbo...
> 
> WEIGHT, for sure.  If something has less mass (read: weight) it has less inertia so it would be easier to accelerate/decelerate making it, I suppose, more receptive to quick changes in frequency.


 
  
 Right on. (Though mass and weight are technically two different things.)
  
 On a related note, the main reason I mentioned the "weight" of instruments and whether electrostats or planar magnetics got closer to being the most accurate at this is that many people perceive electrostats as sounding weightless, ethereal, thin, or whatever. Some have even outright insisted that planar magnetic headphones have accurate weight to the instruments while electrostats (including the SR-009) sound weightless, etc. I don't agree with this, but it's a common impression that people have. I wonder if there's a way to measure how much "body" the sound is supposed to have in a similar way that we can measure frequency response.


----------



## MacedonianHero

lan647 said:


> IMO, the 007s slightly fuller tone is more enjoyable with metal. It just gives more weight and body to the guitars.


 
 I find it (007) a bit too laid back and sluggish (in comparison) and doesn't have the attack that the 009s have (especially with guitars).


----------



## bigfatpaulie

music alchemist said:


> Right on. (Though mass and weight are technically two different things.)
> 
> On a related note, the main reason I mentioned the "weight" of instruments and whether electrostats or planar magnetics got closer to being the most accurate at this is that many people perceive electrostats as sounding weightless, ethereal, thin, or whatever. Some have even outright insisted that planar magnetic headphones have accurate weight to the instruments while electrostats (including the SR-009) sound weightless, etc. I don't agree with this, but it's a common impression that people have. I wonder if there's a way to measure how much "body" the sound is supposed to have in a similar way that we can measure frequency response.


 
  
 I realize that, hence, "If something has less mass (read: weight _{as in they are different but in this case will just use the term for consistency}_) it has less inertia".  We all learned that weight and mass are different in grade 8.
  
 I'm not entirely sure on the issue of "weight" in relation to sound, however.  I think I understand what people are referring to when they talk about "weight of instruments" - a certain tangible aplomb to the sounds: that added 'it sounds like it is really real quality'.  I personally don't know what causes that in this case per-say but there was in interesting article a while back in Scientific America (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/skin-hearing-airflow-puff-sound-perception/) that talks about it an easy to digest manner.  Basically, we feel the air and pressure differences with our skin so, I guess, perhaps, a headphone like a SR-009 (and headphone that has less "presence") moves less air than something like a AB-1266 (a headphone that has more "presence") to produce the same SPL and the skin on out ears perceives that.
  
 The drivers on the 9's may have less travel than the drivers on the Abyss.  But I'm just guessing because I'm not an audio engineer.
  
  
  
 But this is something probably better suited to the sound science part of Head-Fi.


----------



## Music Alchemist

By the way!!!
  
 Since you own the LL2...
  
 I recall talking with you in the past about electrostat amps. I believe you said you ranked the DIY T2 slightly above the BHSE...but I don't remember if you went into detail on the LL2 vs BHSE etc. with the SR-009. I did read your LL2 reviews, though, but they didn't focus on comparisons.
  
 I mostly lost interest in non-electrostats, thus it would be somewhat easier to collect the TOTL electrostat amps over time instead of settling on only one. The LL2 is appealing as a potential first choice due to the fact that it's cheaper and more readily available than the competition, it's solid-state so no worry over tube rolling, the second headphone output's voltage can be configured to be compatible with other electrostats, and that stealth black look is oh-so-sexy!
  
 Anyway, if you can write up a comparison (or link to any you've already published) of the LL2 to other high-end electrostat amps, it would be very helpful to myself and many others. (I've read many comparisons, including ones from prominent Head-Fi'ers who prefer the LL2 over the BHSE for various reasons, but your input holds even more...weight. haha)


----------



## MacedonianHero

music alchemist said:


> By the way!!!
> 
> Since you own the LL2...
> 
> ...


 
  
 It was the DIY T2 over the KGSSHV...yes it was clearly better, but the latter held its own.


----------



## Music Alchemist

macedonianhero said:


> It was the DIY T2 over the KGSSHV...yes it was clearly better, but the latter held its own.


 
  
 So can you post a comparison of the LL2 to the BHSE, etc.?


----------



## MacedonianHero

music alchemist said:


> So can you post a comparison of the LL2 to the BHSE, etc.?


 
 Not enough experience with the latter...plus there's tube rolling to consider which I have had zero experience with that and the BHSE.


----------



## Music Alchemist

macedonianhero said:


> Not enough experience with the latter...plus there's tube rolling to consider which I have had zero experience with that and the BHSE.


 
  
 Do you have "enough experience" with any of the other TOTL amps? Just trying to get a feel for how you think the LL2 compares to any of them, even if you weren't able to spend a lot of time with them. I remember reading your old thread about liking the KGSSHV a lot more than the LL1, but I'm assuming this has changed with the LL2.


----------



## MacedonianHero

music alchemist said:


> Do you have "enough experience" with any of the other TOTL amps? Just trying to get a feel for how you think the LL2 compares to any of them, even if you weren't able to spend a lot of time with them. I remember reading your old thread about liking the KGSSHV a lot more than the LL1, but I'm assuming this has changed with the LL2.


 
  
 It's all there...just read away! I did like the KGSSHV considerably more than the LL1, but the LL2 is something quite different (I was rather shocked when I heard it as I was very skeptical of the differences). If you read my LL2 review there are some comparisons there with the KGSSHV. Seems that some want to know which is better, this TOTL amp/headphone or that...but my experiences have shown that this isn't black and white...but a lot of grey depending on personal priorities, preferences, music genres, etc...


----------



## Music Alchemist

macedonianhero said:


> It's all there...just read away! I did like the KGSSHV considerably more than the LL1, but the LL2 is something quite different (I was rather shocked when I heard it as I was very skeptical of the differences). If you read my LL2 review there are some comparisons there with the KGSSHV. Seems that some want to know which is better, this TOTL amp/headphone or that...but my experiences have shown that this isn't black and white...but a lot of grey depending on personal priorities, preferences, music genres, etc...


 
  
 Ah, yes, now I remember your brief comparison. Looks like you slightly prefer the LL2 over the KGSSHV with the SR-009.


----------



## MacedonianHero

music alchemist said:


> Ah, yes, now I remember your brief comparison. Looks like you slightly prefer the LL2 over the KGSSHV with the SR-009.


 
  
 Correct...and the KGSSHV slightly with the 007. As the 009s are my primary headphones I kept the LL2...but both amps are great and can't go wrong with either IMO.


----------



## Lan647

vgoghs earfrmsc said:


> Let's assume all conditions are ideal. Do you feel that STAX have more accurate "weight" than planar magnetics?
> 
> Here's what my best friend had to say on the issue:
> 
> Hifiman HE1000 has a membrane of 1 nanometre, isn't stax's larger than that.


 

 Both STAX and the planar manufacturers have/are experimenting with thinner diaphragms... but the planars still have metal conductors on them, which ups the weight a whole lot (relatively speaking) compared to the electrostatics. 

 About that weight/power to the sound, planars really have a LOT more driving force with those neodymium magnets.


----------



## Music Alchemist

lan647 said:


> About that weight/power to the sound, planars really have a LOT more driving force with those neodymium magnets.


 
  
 And that's the question: which is more accurate? We all know planar magnetics have _more_, but more could in fact be less, in terms of accuracy. Electrostats certainly sound more transparent overall, at least to most of us. But higher transparency doesn't necessarily mean the "weight" of the instruments is the most accurate too. I suppose at this point in time, all we have are various opinions. Don't know how to go about measuring such a thing in an objective manner.


----------



## astrostar59

lan647 said:


> Both STAX and the planar manufacturers have/are experimenting with thinner diaphragms... but the planars still have metal conductors on them, which ups the weight a whole lot (relatively speaking) compared to the electrostatics.
> 
> About that weight/power to the sound, planars really have a LOT more driving force with those neodymium magnets.


 

 Yes, I had heard that is the case. I have not heard myself the Abyss or the LCD-3s, but have heard the LCD-2s. I think IMO the 007 and 009 are above that phone, well above. It is the decay and transparency, the detail and smoothness. I get the impression the planars may be slower and more sluggish? Someone else who owns both the 009 and the Abyss (well amped of course) could tell you for sure. I have read the Stax way has always been transparency, it seems to be a Japanese trait (in a good way). I note the Kondo Audio Note high end amplifiers had a similar signature, it was all about delicacy and detail, with bass as a foundation but not overloading or slowing things down.
  
 Coming from a DJ background in my distant past, I realised that in a club, after an hour or so, the loudness of the music, even in a great system begins to get lost as the ears start to get tired and shut down i.e the hairs in the inner ear start to lay flat. In other words, the frequency response tails of dramatically in the higher resters as a protection mechanism.
  
 So IMO if a sound from any system has too much energy or is played to loud, your ears are going to take that out of the equation anyway. If Planars add bass impact bayond what I am hearing in my 009s right now, I wonder if it will kill the higher frequencies anyway, slow everything down and make it muddy. The only way to really test Planars against the 009s for example, is have a LONG session with both and swop between the same tracks you know really well. Then you will hear the differences.
  
 I am all for speed and transparency number 1, as long as it has the bass foundation and texture (tuneful bass) to go with that. I don't want too much bass energy to flood the sound, or a 'one note' bass. I hope you can understand what I am trying to explain.
  
 Regardless I would love to hear the Abyss, but to have any chance of making sense of that, it would need to be in my system, not at a show.


----------



## Music Alchemist

astrostar59 said:


> Yes, I had heard that is the case. I have not heard myself the Abyss or the LCD-3s, but have heard the LCD-2s. I think IMO the 007 and 009 are above that phone, well above. It is the decay and transparency, the detail and smoothness. I get the impression the planars may be slower and more sluggish? Someone else who owns both the 009 and the Abyss (well amped of course) could tell you for sure. I have read the Stax way has always been transparency, it seems to be a Japanese trait (in a good way). I note the Kondo Audio Note high end amplifiers had a similar signature, it was all about delicacy and detail, with bass as a foundation but not overloading or slowing things down.
> 
> Coming from a DJ background in my distant past, I realised that in a club, after an hour or so, the loudness of the music, even in a great system begins to get lost as the ears start to get tired and shut down i.e the hairs in the inner ear start to lay flat. In other words, the frequency response tails of dramatically in the higher resters as a protection mechanism.
> 
> ...


 
  
 For what it's worth, I've heard the Abyss, and although I enjoyed it, I thought it was nowhere near as transparent as any STAX I've heard.


----------



## Lan647

astrostar59 said:


> Yes, I had heard that is the case. I have not heard myself the Abyss or the LCD-3s, *but have heard the LCD-2s. I think IMO the 007 and 009 are above that phone, well above.* It is the decay and transparency, the detail and smoothness. I get the impression the planars may be slower and more sluggish? Someone else who owns both the 009 and the Abyss (well amped of course) could tell you for sure. I have read the Stax way has always been transparency, it seems to be a Japanese trait (in a good way). I note the Kondo Audio Note high end amplifiers had a similar signature, it was all about delicacy and detail, with bass as a foundation but not overloading or slowing things down.
> 
> Coming from a DJ background in my distant past, I realised that in a club, after an hour or so, the loudness of the music, even in a great system begins to get lost as the ears start to get tired and shut down i.e the hairs in the inner ear start to lay flat. In other words, the frequency response tails of dramatically in the higher resters as a protection mechanism.
> 
> ...


 

 Finally something we agree on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 There is just something to the STAX sound... that effortlessness and transparency. To be fair, I think the LCD-2/3 play great bass, very much in proper tune with the midrange. A bit more weighty and powerful than the STAX 007/009 but not by a lot. 
  
 My friend once took his HE500 with him and we compared it to the SR-009 with the Meridian Prime driving the Hifiman. The HE500 had fuller bass but impact were about the same and the SR-009 actually went lower. 

 About that Abyss thingy, tried it once and didn't like it. It had some impressive qualities, soundstage was very wide and the bass had something special to it... it sounded very fast, firm and "bouncy", sort of like a great subwoofer in a great room. But midrange and treble sounded way off. And the fit/ergonomics are absolutely terrible.


----------



## Lan647

music alchemist said:


> And that's the question: which is more accurate? We all know planar magnetics have _more_, but more could in fact be less, in terms of accuracy. Electrostats certainly sound more transparent overall, at least to most of us. But higher transparency doesn't necessarily mean the "weight" of the instruments is the most accurate too. I suppose at this point in time, all we have are various opinions. Don't know how to go about measuring such a thing in an objective manner.


 

 I suppose nothing is perfect. While the higher-end planars will always have way more headroom for heavy bass slammin' at extreme volumes, at normal volumes I think it's mostly a matter of the SR-007/009 simply having a couple of decibels less energy below 50hz than the LCD-2/3 have (you can see this in Tyll's measurements). Using a great EQ (like Equilibrium) to bring up those lowest octaves (or, rather, bring everything else down by a hair to safely avoid distortion), you can narrow the gap between the 007/009 and Audezes almost entirely, bass impact wise. 

 It's a much easier thing to do (normally I'm against the concept of EQ but I am playing with it as we speak) than to bring out the same level of transparency from the planars that the STAXes have. Which is impossible.


----------



## Music Alchemist

lan647 said:


> I suppose nothing is perfect. While the higher-end planars will always have way more headroom for heavy bass slammin' at extreme volumes, at normal volumes I think it's mostly a matter of the SR-007/009 simply having a couple of decibels less energy below 50hz than the LCD-2/3 have (you can see this in Tyll's measurements). Using a great EQ (like Equilibrium) to bring up those lowest octaves (or, rather, bring everything else down by a hair to safely avoid distortion), you can narrow the gap between the 007/009 and Audezes almost entirely, bass impact wise.
> 
> It's a much easier thing to do (normally I'm against the concept of EQ but I am playing with it as we speak) than to bring out the same level of transparency from the planars that the STAXes have. Which is impossible.


 

 By the way, when I talk about the weight of instruments, I'm not referring to bass quantity/impact so much. For me, the mid-range is more important in this context. STAX is far more neutral in the upper frequencies than Audeze. I suspect this involves something other than frequency response.


----------



## VandyMan

music alchemist said:


> For what it's worth, I've heard the Abyss, and although I enjoyed it, I thought it was nowhere near as transparent as any STAX I've heard.


 
  
 I agree. I've gotten to hear the Abyss on a few occasions. Maybe I'm just not getting a proper fit, but to me the only exceptional things about it are the lack of comfort and the price.


----------



## hpz

As a former owner of both TOTL stax and planar headphones, I think I can add some value to the conversation at hand.
  
 I have done extensive comparison between the 009s + BHSE vs WA5 + Abyss combo.  (  plus some HEK comparisons)
  
 From here on, it is totally IMO.  
  
 I have found that the treble on the 009s world class.  No headphone can touch it and yes it is better than the HEK treble. The Abyss treble is still quite good, but it can sometimes become alittle too lively and 'steely.'  I have combated this issue with various tubes and a felt mod, which does resolve some of the extra energy, but ends up not quite as refined as the Stax.
  
 For the mids, the 009s have a very intimate sound. Vocal imaging is large and up close with a hint of warmth, where as the Abyss feels a little more distant which may end up sounding hollow on some recordings, but it does give a sense of space around the vocalist.
  
 Bass is a no brainer, Abyss wins by a land slide, BUT only when adjusted and fitted on the head properly.  I have taken a good 2-3 weeks to perfect my technique of putting the abyss on to my head and getting that perfect light seal. Bass on the Abyss is punchier, meatier and to me feels like I can definitely hear the last few octaves in much better balance than the 009s.
  
 For now you may think the 009s win 2 of 3, so therefore I would rate the 009s ahead of the abyss, but there are several other key areas which the abyss win it over for me.
  
 Soundstage is larger (ie, more depth and width) and more precise on the Abyss.  The 009s on the other hand, is smaller and again more intimate, but alittle fuzzy by comparison.
  
 Lastly, the most important attribute for me, speed.  The Abyss is quicker than the 009s on all accounts.  This is a trait that I picked up on almost immediately when comparing the two headphones.  The 009s have a ethereal quality which can make them slightly forgiving on recordings, however the abyss does not hide any truth, it is truly ruthless in extracting the tiniest details, much like the hd800s.  The 009s sound a little rounded by comparison, which can be a good or bad thing depending on your tastes.  The HEK is more rounded than both the Abyss and the 009s.
  
 Both headphones will have their followers and haters. I would rate both headphones on the same league, but for difference reasons.
  
 In the end, I sold the 009s and bhse and kept the Abyss combo. Hope this info helps garner some perspective on the two very different sounding headphones.


----------



## karlgerman

I would agree 99% to that comparison.
 Just for the Headphones a very good description which gives my personal experience more evidence. Thanks.


----------



## zolkis

hpz said:


> I have done extensive comparison between the 009s + BHSE vs WA5 + Abyss combo.  (  plus some HEK comparisons)
> ...
> Bass on the Abyss is punchier, meatier and to me feels like I can definitely hear the last few octaves in much better balance than the 009s.
> ...
> ...


 
  
 I think the last point about speed tells that the Abyss is the better headphone. How is it possible it sounds faster than the 009, I don't know, but it's a good thing.
 I hope I will be able to hear the Abyss once in this forgotten corner of the world.
  
 But the rest of the sentence (ethereal and forgiving vs being ruthless) may be a good or bad thing, depending on what did you mean.
 When you wrote about the Abyss, it was like you described my modded 007 Mk1, only that it never sounds ruthless - however, it has better micro and macrodynamics than the 009, and bigger sound stage as well, with more bones to the sound. It's also more explosive in the bass than my TH900 with an extension to match.
  
 However, all things may be change if the Abyss doesn't sound as true to instruments timbre as the 009. Everyone pick their flowers. 
  
 Then, a headphone sounding more rounded and soft is not necessarily a bad thing, quite the contrary, if it has the extension and dynamic range to match it. Natural sound is round and soft (not spongy, but opposite of being hard), yet much more dynamic and resolved than transducers. My problem with the HE1000 is that dynamic properties are somehow too much frequency dependent: the lower end feels extended but compressed on attacks, and the highs as well, losing from lifelike dynamics, whereas the mids are too hard when compared to Stax. Splitting hairs perhaps, and likely missing a good amp for the HE1000.
  
 I have high hopes with the new Stax L700. Does anyone know when they become available in Japan?


----------



## Pale Rider

hpz said:


> <SNIP>
> 
> In the end, I sold the 009s and bhse and kept the Abyss combo. Hope this info helps garner some perspective on the two very different sounding headphones.


 

 Sigh. If they weren't so ugly.


----------



## potkettleblack

hpz said:


> *Lastly, the most important attribute for me, speed.  The Abyss is quicker than the 009s on all accounts.  This is a trait that I picked up on almost immediately when comparing the two headphones.*  T


 
 This.
  
 They don't get enough credit for what they do in this department. I think it's incredible for electronic music and is the fastest headphone on the market.


----------



## potkettleblack

I read they were shipping at the end of this month and sound very close to the 009's.
  
  
*'WAITS FOR 009'S OWNERS TO SAY THAT'S NEVER GONNA HAPPEN'*


----------



## comzee

hpz said:


> Bass is a no brainer, Abyss wins by a land slide, BUT only when adjusted and fitted on the head properly.


 
 Key point. Every single person at Tyll's Bigsound2015 hated the Abyss. Although, every single one of them tried to create a tight seal around there head with them, like you normally would with any other headphones.
  
 You have to wear them like speakers on your head, I've heard. Light seal like you said.
 In the same vain, they're specifically designed to wear like that. More space between the driver and your ear = more soundstage, obviously.
 I wouldn't be surprised if other manufacturers created a similar design (in terms of spacing between ears and how you wear them) they could create something very similar.
  
 For me, headphones like this would never work, even though I'm quite intrigued by your review of them.
 I USE my headphones, when I listen to my HD800s I wear them to sleep.... 
  
 Using my 009s I've had to give up some usability with them, what I can do. Idk if this is just planar headphones in general, but they seem hyper subjected to where they are placed on your head.
 Yea with dynamics it's important, but if my HD800s moved a bit here or there, swiveling my head, it's w/e. The 009s have a big difference (in comparison) in sound relative to where they are placed on your head. A few minutes of micro adjustments to make them sound best. Swivel my head to talk to somebody, or really anything, boom they're off again.
  
 In addition, as anybody in this thread knows, you lose pressure on your ear, and they pop. I can't even eat with my 009s on without them doing this -_-
  
 The 009s are at my limit of being finicky, I think if I had to live with the Abyss I would get annoyed quick.


----------



## Jodet

StaxUSA said there would be information on the webpage today but..... no.   Disappointing, I'm really interested in the price on the new models.   I've pretty much decided to either get the SR-L700's or the Ether C's.   It's a hard choice when you can't hear either.


----------



## PATB

comzee said:


> Using my 009s I've had to give up some usability with them, what I can do. Idk if this is just planar headphones in general, but they seem hyper subjected to where they are placed on your head.
> Yea with dynamics it's important, but if my HD800s moved a bit here or there, swiveling my head, it's w/e. The 009s have a big difference (in comparison) in sound relative to where they are placed on your head. A few minutes of micro adjustments to make them sound best. Swivel my head to talk to somebody, or really anything, boom they're off again.
> 
> In addition, as anybody in this thread knows, you lose pressure on your ear, and they pop. I can't even eat with my 009s on without them doing this -_-
> ...


 
  
 This is exactly how I feel with my SR-009 too, and what is keeping me so far from going "crazy" building a system around it.  I love the sound better than any headphone I have owned and tried in my system.  However, it takes time for me to adjust them on my head for the best comfort and sound.  At this point, I have a routine on how I position the SR-009 to find the sweet spot, but I have to do it all over again when I have to talk to someone, take a bathroom break, etc.  My HD650/HD800, on the other hand, are way more comfortable and ergonomic.


----------



## preproman

I to did a comparisons of those same headphones.  The Stax 009s was on the KGST the Abyss and HE1K was on a Pass Labs INT-30.  I guess we really do hear things different as I sold all my dynamics / planars and Pass Labs INT-30 in favor of the 009s / 007s with the soon to be BHSE and LL2.
  
 I *"Do Not"* feel the Abyss, HE1K or any other headphone is faster or has more speed compared to the 009s.  I "Do" feel the 009s are the ultimate headphone when it comes to transparency - They are the only headphone that I can honestly say just "Gets out the way" and is a real clear window into the music.  
  
 Bass yes the Abyss and HE1K has a lot of it.  However, the 009s bass is very "toneful" or "tuneful" whatever you call it.  
  
 The midrange on the 009 just totally smashes the mids of the Abyss and the HE1K.
  
 I use to think the HE-6 on a really good speaker amp had the best treble.  Boy was I wrong.  The 009s treble is one of it's best attributes.
  
 By comparison the 009s are the cleanest, clearest headphones I've heard.  The 007s are next.


----------



## potkettleblack

preproman said:


> I to did a comparisons of those same headphones.  The Stax 009s was on the KGST the Abyss and HE1K was on a Pass Labs INT-30.  I guess we really do hear things different as I sold all my dynamics / planars and Pass Labs INT-30 in favor of the 009s / 007s with the soon to be BHSE and LL2.
> 
> I *"Do Not"* feel the Abyss, HE1K or any other headphone is faster or has more speed compared to the 009s.  I "Do" feel the 009s are the ultimate headphone when it comes to transparency - They are the only headphone that I can honestly say just "Gets out the way" and is a real clear window into the music.
> 
> ...


I completely agree on the treble. Nothing comes close to 009's treble imo. Just godly. I also don't see how people can put the hd800 close to it
In that respect.

The 009's bass is also severely underrated imo. I'd like a little more thickness higher up but the bass quality itself is very, very good - not woolly like I'd read a few times. It also goes lower than what many reviewers would have you believe. How does the blue Hawaii affect the bass in comparison to the higher stax amps?
If you know.

Also, as I disagree with you about the speed vs the Abyss can I ask which tracks you used to compare the two?

I could see the argument for the stax having a much more natural decay. I believe it does - but the 'snap' from the abyss, on drum and bass tracks specifically was unlike anything id ever heard.

I thought the midrange on the Abyss was god awful though.


----------



## preproman

potkettleblack said:


> Also, as I disagree with you about the speed vs the Abyss can I ask which tracks you used to compare the two?


 
  
 All kinds of music...  All sorts of Jazz, Classical, Classical scores..  All kinds of vocals, Hip hop and R&B, Some electronic music.  Pretty much all kinds.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Argh. Must...resist...the Abyss!
  


jodet said:


> StaxUSA said there would be information on the webpage today but..... no.   Disappointing, I'm really interested in the price on the new models.   I've pretty much decided to either get the SR-L700's or the Ether C's.   It's a hard choice when you can't hear either.


 
  
 Just curious, what is your reason for not wanting to save money by importing from Japan? Easier warranty service?
  

  
 Every time you post those pics, I get aroused inspired.


----------



## Jodet

music alchemist said:


> Argh. Must...resist...the Abyss!
> 
> 
> Just curious, what is your reason for not wanting to save money by importing from Japan? Easier warranty service?
> ...


 
  
 I'm concerned about out of warranty service being denied on gray market goods.  Say a year out of warranty I have a problem - will StaxUSA fix it (for a charge, of course?  
  
 And then there's the voltage adapter you need for the amp.   How does that work?


----------



## mulveling

If you buy PJ then you absolutely can't go through StaxUSA. You go through PJ, and if the 1 year warranty has expired then you hope that they're still charging some nominal fee (~$50 last I heard) to forward the unit back to Stax Japan for out-of-warranty service; you're responsible for all repair fees and return shipping incurred that point. From my viewpoint the ~40% savings is well worth the small % risk, and from what I've read the Stax USA service isn't often stellar anyways -- so they're adding very little value for a 40% markup. PJ gives a lot of value for a ridiculously small 5% markup. I don't hesitate to buy from PJ.
  
 As for the Japan => USA amp voltage conversion...you avoid that mess altogether by buying a vastly superior KG amp that's native to USA voltages.


----------



## Jodet

mulveling said:


> If you buy PJ then you absolutely can't go through StaxUSA. You go through PJ, and if the 1 year warranty has expired then you hope that they're still charging some nominal fee (~$50 last I heard) to forward the unit back to Stax Japan for out-of-warranty service; you're responsible for all repair fees and return shipping incurred that point. From my viewpoint the ~40% savings is well worth the small % risk, and from what I've read the Stax USA service isn't often stellar anyways -- so they're adding very little value for a 40% markup. PJ gives a lot of value for a ridiculously small 5% markup. I don't hesitate to buy from PJ.
> 
> As for the Japan => USA amp voltage conversion...you avoid that mess altogether by buying a vastly superior KG amp that's native to USA voltages.


 
  
 KG amp?   Aren't those five grand?


----------



## purk

jodet said:


> KG amp?   Aren't those five grand?


 
 Most are under 3K.   Well worth it too!  Try the KGST, KGSSHV, and even a KGDT.


----------



## Jodet

purk said:


> Most are under 3K.   Well worth it too!  Try the KGST, KGSSHV, and even a KGDT.


 
  
Mjölnir-Audio?   This is the first I've heard of it....... 
  
 And the only thing I see under 3k here is a transformer and a tube amp that isn't going to win any beauty prizes. ..


----------



## purk

jodet said:


> Mjölnir-Audio?   This is the first I've heard of it.......
> 
> And the only thing I see under 3k here is a transformer and a tube amp that isn't going to win any beauty prizes. ..


 
  
 Have you check anything in the FS/FT forum?  I would start there first.  Highly recommended the KGSSHV for sure.


----------



## sensui123

@ preproman.  Thanks for your summary/impressions.  I think I will follow suit and skip on the Abyss and buy a SR-009 and a SR-007 mk1 to pair with the BHSE I have on order when the time comes.  Don't know if I'm abandoning all my dynamic/planar stuff completely just yet though.  We shall see heh.


----------



## comzee

jodet said:


> Mjölnir-Audio?   This is the first I've heard of it.......
> 
> And the only thing I see under 3k here is a transformer and a tube amp that isn't going to win any beauty prizes. ..


 
  
 FYI there are many builders out there that do KGSS and its variations, but Birgir (is it argued?) is the best. He works with Kevin Gilmore (I believe the original/main designer of KGSS) to design the new models. HV / Carbon / KGST etc.....
  
  
 From all the reading I've done, this is what I've come up with.
  
 KGSS for anything below 007/009
 KGSSHV for the 007/009 (because the HV = more power)
 KGST for if you want tubes
  
 I personally bought the KGSSHV Carbon from him, a tweak on the HV specifically designed around making the 009s shine.


----------



## purk

comzee said:


> FYI there are many builders out there that do KGSS and its variations, but Birgir (is it argued?) is the best. He works with Kevin Gilmore (I believe the original/main designer of KGSS) to design the new models. HV / Carbon / KGST etc.....
> 
> 
> From all the reading I've done, this is what I've come up with.
> ...


 
 I think the KGST is also a fine amp for the SR-009 too.  May people do like this amp with the SR009 and I do as well.  Just that I prefer the KGSSHV over it.


----------



## ufospls2

Man I want to join the Stax club so badly. I didn't know about Price Japan when I bought my HE1000's, so I thought I would be in over $5.5k Canadian for an SR-009 PLUS a decent amp, so they were a dream that would never happen. I actually tested the SR-009 the day I bought me HE1000's, and was blown away by them. There is a smoothness that they have when transitioning between notes that I have never heard before. They are just fantastic, right up my alley. Now I am aware of Price Japan, and some decent amps in the used for sale section here, I realize I could have done it for about the same price as my HE1000's! If there is anyone out there reading this deciding between the HE1000 and the SR-009.....don't be an idiot like me! Go for the Stax!
  
  
 Anyone out there fed up of their 009's and want to trade for a pair of HE1000s? Haha.


----------



## mulveling

comzee said:


> FYI there are many builders out there that do KGSS and its variations, but Birgir (is it argued?) is the best. He works with Kevin Gilmore (I believe the original/main designer of KGSS) to design the new models. HV / Carbon / KGST etc.....
> 
> 
> From all the reading I've done, this is what I've come up with.
> ...


 
 He is definitely a good designer _and_ builder, but there are other good DIY builders whose amps can be had for less. My favorite sounding KGSShv of the 5 I've heard (including 2 mjolnir minis) was built by Wachara (sp?), the same guy who did those DIY electrostat headphones Tyll raved about. Yes I do own that amp, but it really is the best sounding one -- sounds kind of like a poor man's T2, and I'm thrilled to have it (it was previously Purk's like 4th string amp). I'm also looking forward to getting my Carbon from yet another good builder.


----------



## Music Alchemist

jodet said:


> And then there's the voltage adapter you need for the amp.   How does that work?


 
  
 If you import one of the STAX amps, you would just need a voltage transformer. You could also use a modified power supply. The SRM-212 I owned had a modified power supply that was basically an aftermarket wall wart with the STAX cord soldered on. A polarity inverter may work as well.


----------



## bmichels

potkettleblack said:


> ...,The 009's bass is also severely underrated imo. I'd like a little more thickness higher up but the bass quality itself is very, very good - not woolly like I'd read a few times. It also goes lower than what many reviewers would have you believe. How does the blue Hawaii affect the bass in comparison to the higher stax amps?
> .




Like you I consider the BHSE+SR009 the best Headphone experience I ever heard. 

Since you have the TotalDAC, have you had TotalDAC's "bass boost" option implémented ? 

Don't you think that *TotalDAC's "bass boost" option may be the cure to the SR009 bass weakness* ( for those who think the STAX lack bass) ?


----------



## preproman

sensui123 said:


> @ preproman.  Thanks for your summary/impressions.  I think I will follow suit and skip on the Abyss and buy a SR-009 and a SR-007 mk1 to pair with the BHSE I have on order when the time comes.  Don't know if I'm abandoning all my dynamic/planar stuff completely just yet though.  We shall see heh.


 

 I understand.  No problem there from me.  It's just that once you go Stax you'll never go back. You can also get a Solid State E-Stat amp as well to go with the BHSE - a KGSSHV or a LL2..


----------



## Music Alchemist

bmichels said:


> Don't you think that *TotalDAC's "bass boost" option may be the cure to the SR009 bass weakness* ( for those who think the STAX lack bass) ?


 
  
 An alternative is to just boost the bass for free with a parametric equalizer.


----------



## hpz

I have spent counteless hours trying to to equalise the stax bass so that it is similar to the Abyss, but could never get that to happen.  Likewise, I 've tried to get the Abyss treble to sound similar to the stax treble.  I feel that I get closer to the goal adjusting the Abyss as opposed to adjusting the stax.  The electrostatic drivers physically just can't seem to move that volume of air no matter how much you EQ them.


----------



## Music Alchemist

hpz said:


> I have spent counteless hours trying to to equalise the stax bass so that it is similar to the Abyss, but could never get that to happen.  Likewise, I 've tried to get the Abyss treble to sound similar to the stax treble.  I feel that I get closer to the goal adjusting the Abyss as opposed to adjusting the stax.  The electrostatic drivers physically just can't seem to move that volume of air no matter how much you EQ them.


 
  
 Well yeah, you're not going to get the type of bass that planar magnetic and (some) dynamic headphones can do...but it's easy to get the same quantity in terms of frequency response. That's all I meant. Personally I feel that electrostats have higher quality bass anyway. Modifications can help too. I linked to some earlier. And the headphone that is capable of the most bass impact (JVC HA-SZ2000) is only around $200, so that's another option for some who want crazy bass.


----------



## lojay

hpz said:


> I have spent counteless hours trying to to equalise the stax bass so that it is similar to the Abyss, but could never get that to happen.  Likewise, I 've tried to get the Abyss treble to sound similar to the stax treble.  I feel that I get closer to the goal adjusting the Abyss as opposed to adjusting the stax.  The electrostatic drivers physically just can't seem to move that volume of air no matter how much you EQ them.




I'm interested in your insight into this but need more context.
What are your music preferences and source/DAC?


----------



## Music Alchemist

Sexiness.


----------



## joseph69

ufospls2 said:


> I realize I could have done it for about the same price as my HE1000's! If there is anyone out there reading this deciding between the HE1000 and the SR-009.....don't be an idiot like me! Go for the Stax!


 
 I did this exactly…I had placed an order for the GS-Xmk2/HE-1K then realized for not much more (at that point) I could go for the BHSE/SR-009 so I canceled my order and placed an order for the BHSE and purchased the SR-009 from PJ which should be here next week.


----------



## Music Alchemist

joseph69 said:


> I did this exactly…I had placed an order for the GS-Xmk2/HE-1K then realized for not much more (at that point) I could go for the BHSE/SR-009 so I canceled my order and placed an order for the BHSE and purchased the SR-009 from PJ which should be here next week.


 
  
 So what're you gonna use with the 009 while waiting for the BHSE?


----------



## joseph69

music alchemist said:


> So what're you gonna use with the 009 while waiting for the BHSE?


 
 Nothing…I'm just going to leave them on a stand until I receive the BHSE.


----------



## Music Alchemist

joseph69 said:


> Nothing…I'm just going to leave them on a stand until I receive the BHSE.


 
  
 Nice. One of my headphones is just hanging on a stand because I only bought it to use its pads for a future headphone. It's one of the coolest-looking headphones I've seen and doesn't sound good enough to use, so using it as eye candy works out just fine. ^‿^
  
 ...But still...I'd hate to have an SR-009 without being able to use it. There are affordable amps available, if you get impatient. Some people had to wait *years* to receive their BHSE, after all.


----------



## n3rdling

You can try to find a used SRM-T1.  They're for sale constantly and a unit should run you ~$600 or less.  The voicing is a pretty decent match with the SR-009.  When your BHSE arrives, sell the T1 for little to no loss.


----------



## joseph69

music alchemist said:


> Nice. One of my headphones is just hanging on a stand because I only bought it to use its pads for a future headphone. It's one of the coolest-looking headphones I've seen and doesn't sound good enough to use, so using it as eye candy works out just fine. ^‿^
> 
> ...But still...I'd hate to have an SR-009 without being able to use it. There are affordable amps available, if you get impatient. Some people had to wait *years* to receive their BHSE, after all.


 


n3rdling said:


> You can try to find a used SRM-T1.  They're for sale constantly and a unit should run you ~$600 or less.  The voicing is a pretty decent match with the SR-009.  When your BHSE arrives, sell the T1 for little to no loss.


 
 Yes, they'll look good just hanging around for a while. I'm not in a rush to buy any other amps just to try them…this is why I went for the BHSE, so I didn't buy an amps them want the BHSE and end up spending more money in the end. I'm also in the current batch
 # 4 which is a good thing.


----------



## Amleth

Spotted this searching "SRM-T2" on Yahoo Auctions Japan:
http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m95216502
  
 To the DIY cognoscenti, does this looks like an actual T2 clone? Just in one box?
  
 Or is the seller just using the name in his auction title to lure searchers to his different DIY design?
  
 (He also has another, slightly more expensive version up claiming compatibility with dynamic headphones too...)


----------



## mulveling

amleth said:


> Spotted this searching "SRM-T2" on Yahoo Auctions Japan:
> http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m95216502
> 
> To the DIY cognoscenti, does this looks like an actual T2 clone? Just in one box?
> ...


 
 Doesn't look at all like a T2 clone. Way too small, inadequate heat dissipation. Looks more like a cheap/crappy 30 Watts/ch integrated amp. And with a combo dynamic/electrostatic amp also on offer, you might well be looking at a Japanese Mikhail-wannabe. Stay far away.


----------



## kugino

mulveling said:


> Doesn't look at all like a T2 clone. Way too small, inadequate heat dissipation. Looks more like a cheap/crappy 30 Watts/ch integrated amp. And with a combo dynamic/electrostatic amp also on offer, you might well be looking at a Japanese Mikhail-wannabe. Stay far away.


haha. you might need to explain who mikhail is to the newer members...


----------



## Music Alchemist

Further down the money-burning hole we go, complete with an endorsement from STAX themselves!
  
 http://www.questyleaudio.com/product-cma800p
  
 I know this was briefly discussed here before. This preamp was "commissioned by STAX, to bring out the full potential of their Flagship SR-009 electrostatic earspeaker system", but apparently this is in the context of STAX's own amps. Not sure what the improvements would be like when used in conjunction with top-of-the-line amps. Very interesting description on that page, at any rate. ...But I can't find info on what the price is! I'm assuming no one here has tried it...?
  
 Oh. I had a question about the original SR-007...
  
 Does the version with the brown pads and headband always have this gold finish?
  

  
 I think it looks gorgeous and wanted to make sure to get that one. Don't really like the one with black pads/headband and silver finish (SR-007BL, not to be confused with the also black/silver SR-007A, which is the Japanese version of the all-black SR-007MK2) nearly as much. However, some photos of the brown pad version almost look like the finish is silver instead of gold. Could it just be the lighting? Or is there also a version with brown pads/headband and silver (instead of gold) finish?


----------



## Peti

This company is just sooo mysterious. Firstly, I thought there's only two colour versions of the mkII 007 such as the silver for the japanese public and the black one for the rest...


----------



## Tinkerer

With the Mk I's? It's lighting, just like sometimes the pads look very light brown or very dark brown when they're all the same color in reality. Saturation looks to have been mucked with on that picture for example. Looking at mine, I'd say the real color is closer to champagne than outright gold.

 EDIT: And as far as I can tell, the metal parts of the BL are the same color as all the rest of the MK I's, just with black pads instead. It's the 007A Mk II that's silver.


----------



## Music Alchemist

peti said:


> This company is just sooo mysterious. Firstly, I thought there's only two colour versions of the mkII 007 such as the silver for the japanese public and the black one for the rest...


 
  
 That is correct. There are two main versions of the SR-007MK2: the silver/black SR-007A for the Japanese market and the all-black SR-007MK2 for the international market. They reportedly sound different, with the SR-007A having more potential—when modified—to sound more like the original SR-007. There have also been unannounced revisions of the all-black SR-007MK2 that sound different, with unofficial designations such as MK2.5 and so on. The original SR-007 (commonly referred to as SR-007 MK1) had at least two versions, but they could be merely cosmetic.


----------



## Music Alchemist

tinkerer said:


> With the Mk I's? It's lighting, just like sometimes the pads look very light brown or very dark brown when they're all the same color in reality. Saturation looks to have been mucked with on that picture for example. Looking at mine, I'd say the real color is closer to champagne than outright gold.
> 
> EDIT: And as far as I can tell, the metal parts of the BL are the same color as all the rest of the MK I's, just with black pads instead. It's the 007A Mk II that's silver.


 
  
 Zoom in on that image I posted. Then look at this image. The first looks very gold while the second looks very silver. But perhaps it is just lighting...


----------



## Tinkerer

music alchemist said:


> Zoom in on that image I posted. Then look at this image. The first looks very gold while the second looks very silver. But perhaps it is just lighting...


 

 Like I said, somebody messed with the saturation on the first one. The second one is a lot closer to the true color, kind of a champagne.


----------



## Music Alchemist

tinkerer said:


> Like I said, somebody messed with the saturation on the first one. The second one is a lot closer to the true color, kind of a champagne.


 
  
 Thanks for your insight. I always did see the color referred to as champagne.
  
 So are you planning on adding the SR-009 to your collection?
  
 I really miss that SR-207 you sold me. It will always have a special place in my heart. haha


----------



## mulveling

music alchemist said:


> Further down the money-burning hole we go, complete with an endorsement from STAX themselves!
> 
> http://www.questyleaudio.com/product-cma800p
> 
> I know this was briefly discussed here before. This preamp was "commissioned by STAX, to bring out the full potential of their Flagship SR-009 electrostatic earspeaker system", but apparently this is in the context of STAX's own amps. Not sure what the improvements would be like when used in conjunction with top-of-the-line amps. Very interesting description on that page, at any rate. ...But I can't find info on what the price is! I'm assuming no one here has tried it...?


 
 It makes absolutely no sense. You don't need to insert and extra preamp into a Stax chain. And is that an RK27 pot they're showing? That's not a stellar volume control. My 007 Mk I is definitely champagne color.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulveling said:


> It makes absolutely no sense. You don't need to insert and extra preamp into a Stax chain. Especially not one with the RK27 pot shown there, which is a crappy volume control.


 
  
 Well then! That settles that. ...But I'm still really curious about it! I wouldn't imagine that they were lying when they said STAX themselves commissioned this preamp. Do you think they were lying about that as well as the technical info on the link?


----------



## mulveling

I have no reason to believe they're lying about the low THD measurements. But it can be nothing more than a 5th wheel in a high performance Stax system. It doesn't matter how great that 5th tire is...it can only get in the way. I'm completely baffled as to why it's being associated with Stax, especially the 009. And from the nice looking photos, you can be sure that preamp will cost a hell of a lot -- probably more than enough to furnish a sensible high-end Stax system on its own.


----------



## Tinkerer

music alchemist said:


> Thanks for your insight. I always did see the color referred to as champagne.
> 
> So are you planning on adding the SR-009 to your collection?
> 
> I really miss that SR-207 you sold me. It will always have a special place in my heart. haha


 
  
 Currently trying to get my KGSSHV 500v up and running. It's fun and a pain at the same time. Totally rebuilt the output boards on my SRA-12S with new caps and fancy Dale and Xicon resistors to let me keep listening in the meantime though. I'm not sure if I'll get an SR-009. I really love my SR-007, and it's the kind of sound I enjoy coming from the old planar end of the pool. Though I do want to audition them with my new amp at some point. It might just change my mind. SR-207 was a great headphone too, and a steal for the money they go for nowadays. Used entry level STAX is really some of the best bang for the buck before people start getting flagship fever.


----------



## mynameisdan

I'm headed to Japan in the next three weeks and there's about a 50% chance that I'm going to fly back with a pair of 009s. With new pairs selling for around $2600 without import fees if I can find the right deal over there, I just don't know how I can keep saying no.
  
 Between the weak yen, strong dollar, and news from Justin that the BHSE is only having one more run before getting discontinued, it's going to be a rough couple of months for my savings account.


----------



## mangler

music alchemist said:


> That is correct. There are two main versions of the SR-007MK2: the silver/black SR-007A for the Japanese market and the all-black SR-007MK2 for the international market. They reportedly sound different, with the SR-007A having more potential—when modified—to sound more like the original SR-007. There have also been unannounced revisions of the all-black SR-007MK2 that sound different, with unofficial designations such as MK2.5 and so on. The original SR-007 (commonly referred to as SR-007 MK1) had at least two versions, but they could be merely cosmetic.




 Is it true that the 007A and 007Mk2.5 are different? I was under the impression that both are SZ3 models, just different colors for different markets. Can anybody with a recent 007A confirm this? I ask because I used to own an SZ3 model, but if the 007A is actually different I might try to get one. Can anybody with a recent 007A confirm this? I ask because I used to own an SZ3 model, but if the 007A is actually different I might try to get one. Also, does anybody have a link about posts

EDIT: I found this info on innerfidelity ( http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-stax-sr-007#TyZ2641QrmHQ78jB.97) about the different versions:


Stax SR-007 Late Mk. 1 (~$2600)
Description - This is a full size, open, electrostatic headphone. I'll quote one of the Stax Mafia here:

SR-007 Mk1 early version - different driver frame plus some minor material changes, older style carbon fiber box.
SR-007 Mk1 late version - the version tested here and the most common of the Mk1's, S/N either 7xxxx or SZ1-xxxx

SR-007A/SR-007Mk2 - S/N SZ2-xxxx, Stax change the earpads, how they sit and introduce a port to the earcups. Sound is a mixed bag depending on fit but can be fixed to sound pretty much like the Mk1.

SR-007A/SR-007Mk2 - S/N SZ3-xxxx, often called the Mk2.5, Stax supposedly change the diaphragm which results in a much more forward sound signature."

So, I have to admit I'm skeptical that the current 007A and 007Mk2 actually sound different


----------



## zolkis

mangler said:


> EDIT: I found this info on innerfidelity ( http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-stax-sr-007#TyZ2641QrmHQ78jB.97) about the different versions:
> 
> Stax SR-007 Late Mk. 1 (~$2600)
> Description - This is a full size, open, electrostatic headphone. I'll quote one of the Stax Mafia here:
> ...


 
  
 FWIW I have 7xxxx with the older style carbon box. The early version. So this classification is wrong at least on one specimen.


----------



## preproman

mangler said:


> SR-007 Mk1 early version - different driver frame plus some minor material changes, older style carbon fiber box.


 
  
 "Different driver frame and some minor material changes"   From what?


----------



## Music Alchemist

mangler said:


> So, I have to admit I'm skeptical that the current 007A and 007Mk2 actually sound different


 
  
 I've read posts by people who have heard both. At least a few times, it was mentioned that, when modified, the SR-007A can get closer to the original SR-007 than the SR-007MK2 can. I suggest researching this if you want to learn more.


----------



## mangler

preproman said:


> "Different driver farm and some minor material changes"   From what?




Haha, good point! I haven't dug through all of the Stax threads so the info on that page is all I "know", but I THINK that description might be in regards to the comparison of the early Mk1 to the late Mk1 (the one under review). That is, the early one has a different driver frame and material changes compared to the late Mk1. Just guessing though


----------



## mangler

music alchemist said:


> I've read posts by people who have heard both. I suggest spending more time researching this if you want to learn more.




Could you share any links then? I am genuinely curious if they sound different. As I said above, I've owned the US Mk2.5 so I'd be interested to know how the 007A sounds different, and if it is better I may eventually order one from PJ.

Also, I have done a fair amount of research as well, and I am aware that one can do the spritzer mod to the SZ2 007A and Mk2 to make it sound more like the Mk1. From what I understand, a similar mod is not possible on the SZ3 "Mk2.5" or 007A models. So, that is why I'm wondering how the current 007A and Mk2.5 are different. All of this info is from the "maffia", whom I'm inclined to believe in


----------



## Lan647

To clear out some confusion! 
  
 There are SR-007 mk1s (they range from SN 70xxx to 72xxx or 73xxx I think, and then SZ1) which are (I think) mostly the same. STAX may have done some material or structural changes through the years which may or may not have altered the sound signature slightly, but I can't say for sure. Someone else will have to do that. I've only spent a reasonable amount of time with late 70xxx or early 71xxx ones.
  
 The mk1s all have champagne housings with brown leather. 

 The SR-007A and SR-007 mk2 SZ2 are the same thing, just different names. They are different sounding from the mk1s because they have different earpads and most importantly because of that port in the ear cup. The port prevents vacuum (thus eliminating the infamous STAX "fart" sound from the drivers) but ruins the bass. This can be clearly seen in measurements and you hear it. It causes a strong bass roll-off with a mid-bass hump instead, which makes the bass sound (comparably) thick and unnatural. To make the SR-007A play bass correctly, the port hole has to be tightened. But the drivers are mostly the same I think as the mk1s, so if you do the port mod and put mk1 ear pads on them there shouldn't be too much difference. 
  
 They have silver housings with black leather. 
  
 The all-black SR-007 mk2 SZ3 (or mk2.5) is a completely different beast though from the other SR-007s however as it uses a different driver. It's NOT just a mk2 SZ2/007A painted in black. It sounds different from the others too, it's much more forward and "direct" sounding than the others. If you take a mk1 and mix some Grado in there, you pretty much have a SZ3 007. 
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## mangler

Lan647 thanks for the info and clarification! So, the current black SZ3 Mk2 is completely different than the current silver SZ3 007A (which is more like the SZ2 models)? If so, does that mean if I got a current production 007A I could do the spritzer mod to make it sound more like the Mk1? If so, that's something I may have to seriously consider doing.


----------



## yaluen

Easy replacement of pads on the new lambdas, and a better view of the angled enclosures.


----------



## Jones Bob

yaluen said:


> Easy replacement of pads on the new lambdas, and a better view of the angled enclosures.




Are those your SR-L700? How do they sound?


----------



## Jones Bob

mangler said:


> Lan647 thanks for the info and clarification! So, the current black SZ3 Mk2 is completely different than the current silver SZ3 007A (which is more like the SZ2 models)? If so, does that mean if I got a current production 007A I could do the spritzer mod to make it sound more like the Mk1? If so, that's something I may have to seriously consider doing.




Birger has a black SR-007 Mk2 SZ3 that he claims sounds very good. 

I've got a recently black SR-007 Mk2 SZ3 that I am not too fond of. Even after blocking the bass ports and bending the pad spring per the Spritzer mod. Maybe I got spoiled by my SR-009. Or my KGST is lacking on the 007. I don't have a lot of experience with the 007 and other amps.


----------



## yaluen

jones bob said:


> yaluen said:
> 
> 
> > Easy replacement of pads on the new lambdas, and a better view of the angled enclosures.
> ...


 
  
 Nope, this and a few previous photos are reposts from a home theatre exhibition that took place in Tokyo this weekend. The new lambdas should be on display at the big Tokyo HP Festival next weekend, so I'm sure a few HFers will have something to say then. And from new owners as well since they're shipping later this month


----------



## Music Alchemist

lan647 said:


> The mk1s all have champagne housings with brown leather.


 
  
 Very helpful post. Just one correction, though: there _is_ a MK1 with black cable/pads/headband, called the SR-007BL.
  
 http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=SR-007


----------



## Jones Bob

yaluen said:


> Nope, this and a few previous photos are reposts from a home theatre exhibition that took place in Tokyo this weekend. The new lambdas should be on display at the big Tokyo HP Festival next weekend, so I'm sure a few HFers will have something to say then. And from new owners as well since they're shipping later this month




Mine are scheduled for PJ to ship on October 23.


----------



## joseph69

I'm hoping to get my SR-009 sometime this week…but can't hear them until the BHSE comes in.


----------



## joseph69

jones bob said:


> Mine are scheduled for PJ to ship on October 23.


 
 Congratulations, enjoy!


----------



## Music Alchemist

joseph69 said:


> I'm hoping to get my SR-009 sometime this week…but can't hear them until the BHSE comes in.


 
  
 Not can't; won't. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (Since you could easily get an affordable amp to use with it in the meantime. Like I mentioned before, I got an SRM-212 for just $150, for example.)


----------



## joseph69

music alchemist said:


> *Not can't; won't. *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 True.
 Thank you for the suggestions, but I'll wait for the BHSE…I'm in no rush, nor do I feel the need to spend anymore money just to hear them temporarily then have to sell the amp when I do receive the BHSE.


----------



## Music Alchemist

joseph69 said:


> True.
> Thank you for the suggestions, but I'll wait for the BHSE…I'm in no rush, nor do I feel the need to spend anymore money just to hear them temporarily then have to sell the amp when I do receive the BHSE.


 
  
 Well, you wouldn't _have_ to sell the amp. You could always keep it as a backup. But I respect that you don't want to bother getting an amp now, even if it means waiting for a long time. I wonder what Justin's gonna do in the realm of electrostats once he discontinues the BHSE.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Know somethin' else I like about STAX? You don't have to worry about aftermarket headphone cables.


----------



## joseph69

music alchemist said:


> *Well, you wouldn't have** to sell the amp.* *You could always keep it as a backup.* But I respect that you don't want to bother getting an amp now, even if it means waiting for a long time.


 
 You do have a good point for a back-up, but I have other HP's/amps that I can listen to/enjoy if I had any unfortunate issues and was without the amp for a while. I feel I already have too much and would like to possibly downsize to just a couple of amps/HP's to leave out ready to listen to, and put away which ever I decide not listen to for a while…or possibly sell, but I doubt I could part with anything...depending on how much I enjoy the BHSE/SR-009 that is of course! Sometimes I feel its a hassle having too many choices, and while what I already have may not be too many for some, it is too many for me, so basically I'm trying to find the perfect combo for my preference (which I know is almost impossible) but this is what I'm aiming for with this purchase.


----------



## Music Alchemist

joseph69 said:


> You do have a good point for a back-up, but I have other HP's/amps that I can listen to/enjoy if I had any unfortunate issues and was without the amp for a while. I feel I already have too much and would like to possibly downsize to just a couple of amps/HP's to leave out ready to listen to, and put away which ever I decide not listen to for a while…or possibly sell, but I doubt I could part with anything...depending on how much I enjoy the BHSE/SR-009 that is of course! Sometimes I feel its a hassle having too many choices, and while what I already have may not be too many for some, it is too many for me, so basically I'm trying to find the perfect combo for my preference (which I know is almost impossible) but this is what I'm aiming for with this purchase.


 
  
 I hear ya. Look at all the stuff I used to own, listed on my profile!


----------



## ufospls2

joseph69 said:


> I'm hoping to get my SR-009 sometime this week…but can't hear them until the BHSE comes in.


 
 Why don't you get something small, used, and hopefully cheap whilst you wait for your BHSE? I know I would find it mighty hard to sit with SR-009's in the house and have no way to listen to them!


----------



## Music Alchemist

ufospls2 said:


> Why don't you get something small, used, and hopefully cheap whilst you wait for your BHSE? I know I would find it mighty hard to sit with SR-009's in the house and have no way to listen to them!


 
  
 He's been answering that question here repeatedly over the past week or so.


----------



## astrostar59

mangler said:


> So, I have to admit I'm skeptical that the current 007A and 007Mk2 actually sound different


 
 It is true. I have a new pair of 007As from PJ 4 months back, and they sound MUCH better than my previous 2013 all black 007s UK sourced via a dealer.
  
 The all black ones were boomy, sluggish and sound just off to me. The 007As sound nearer to the 009s, i.e. faster, more alive and the bass has much better control, less flab.
 No idea why, but it is a dead cert, I ran both hose 007s on the same amp and source, and had the black ones for 2 years....


----------



## Music Alchemist

By the way, @astrostar59, what are your thoughts on that Questyle preamp?


----------



## cucera

I have heared quite a number of 007 and even among MK1s there is variation (roughly said carbon box ones are more neutral SN<705xx) the best is my actual one a verry early SN701xx. 

But the new one I heard was really good too, a bit more exciting sound as my neutral reference one. So I agree with Spritzer that Stax sorted out the problems they had with the so called MK2.5 (SN SZ3xxx). Two questions remain unanswered: Should the new one be called MK2.75 and when did the change occure?


----------



## Music Alchemist

cucera said:


> I have heared quite a number of 007 and even among MK1s there is variation (roughly said carbon box ones are more neutral SN<705xx) the best is my actual one a verry early SN701xx.
> 
> But the new one I heard was really good too, a bit more exciting sound as my neutral reference one. So I agree with Spritzer that Stax sorted out the problems they had with the so called MK2.5 (SN SZ3xxx). Two questions remain unanswered: Should the new one be called MK2.75 and when did the change occure?


 
  
 That's good, then, since I wanted to get an SR-007MK2 from STAXUSA.com in addition to the SR-009 and SR-007. I wonder whether all the ones they have in stock are the newest revision. The black SR-007MK2 might be my favorite headphone in terms of aesthetics.


----------



## astrostar59

music alchemist said:


> That's good, then, since I wanted to get an SR-007MK2 from STAXUSA.com in addition to the SR-009 and SR-007. I wonder whether all the ones they have in stock are the newest revision. The black SR-007MK2 might be my favorite headphone in terms of aesthetics.


 

 The only way to know for sure, is test it on your system before you buy. It is fairly obvious the jump in SQ to the Silver Japanese sourced 007A, it sound to me like a smaller 009, possibly slightly warmer and less treble energy, but defiantly moved away from the softer sounding 007MK2.5 and that blobby bass. I also noticed the frame on the MK2.5s seems to interact with the bass output, it is odd, there seems to be a kind of strange sucked out response it is hard to describe, but is apparent on a good source and amp. I came to the 007MK2.5s from an older pair of LNS so I had no real idea what to expect i.e thought my MK2.5 were good. They are actually good at bass output compared to the LNS and other Lambdas, and go louder, but the rest of the sound is off too much to live with them. IMO Stax finally did something about it, or at least in the Japanese market version.


----------



## preproman

cucera said:


> I have heared quite a number of 007 and even among MK1s there is variation (roughly said carbon box ones are more neutral SN<705xx) the best is my actual one a verry early SN701xx.
> 
> But the new one I heard was really good too, a bit more exciting sound as my neutral reference one.* So I agree with Spritzer that Stax sorted out the problems they had with the so called MK2.5 (SN SZ3xxx). *Two questions remain unanswered: Should the new one be called MK2.75 and when did the change occure?


 
  
 IMO - this is true for the 2015 productions units of the (Black) SZ3 SR-007 MKII.  According to Stax there is not such thing as a 2.5.  There are only Mk2s.   This is my second 2015 production pair of the Black SZ3 MK2.  They both sound much better than the pair of 007As I got from Spritzer with the mod he put on them.
  
 I'm going to order a pair of 007A from PJ just to see how they fair.  So at that point I will have the latest 007A and the latest 007 MK2.  There may not be any difference at all - I'll see.


----------



## astrostar59

preproman said:


> IMO - this is true for the 2015 productions units of the (Black) SZ3 SR-007 MKII.  According to Stax there is not such thing as a 2.5.  There are only Mk2s.   This is my second 2015 production pair of the Black SZ3 MK2.  They both sound much better than the pair of 007As I got from Spritzer with the mod he put on them.
> 
> I'm going to order a pair of 007A from PJ just to see how they fair.  So at that point I will have the latest 007A and the latest 007 MK2.  There may not be any difference at all - I'll see.


 
 Jeeze, don't trip over the headphone mountain in the middle of your house! (Jealous) But you only have 2 ears.....


----------



## Music Alchemist

astrostar59 said:


> The only way to know for sure, is test it on your system before you buy.


 
  
 Neverrr! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I (almost) always buy things before hearing them. It adds to the excitement. I decided long ago that I want the three I listed, anyway. (Among other non-STAX electrostats.) If I'm going to be buying all these crazy amps, might as well amass a collection of electrostats to use with them.


----------



## DougD

Anybody have insights into WHY Justin is halting production of the BHSE after Run 5 ?
  
 Possibilities that have occurred to me:
 * parts just too hard to get
 * hassle & effort not worth rewards
 * switching to a KGSSHV-Carbon (or something like it.)
 * has an entirely different design in the wings
 * we're a persnickety unappreciative collection of baboons
 * pure business decision, there's better ROI in cranking out lower price gear
 * may make more batches in the future, but wants to escape the pressure of having pre-paid units always in the queue 
  
 Also, does anyone have a feel for the total number of BHSE units produced so far ?


----------



## bearFNF

I'd guess bullets 1 and 2 have something to do with it. But bullet 5 comes in to play, also.


----------



## joseph69

music alchemist said:


> I hear ya. Look at all the stuff I used to own, listed on my profile!


 




  


ufospls2 said:


> Why don't you get something small, used, and hopefully cheap whilst you wait for your BHSE? I know I would find it mighty hard to sit with SR-009's in the house and have no way to listen to them!


 
 I'll wait, it adds to the excitement!
  


dougd said:


> Anybody have insights into WHY Justin is halting production of the BHSE after Run 5 ?
> 
> Possibilities that have occurred to me:
> * parts just too hard to get
> ...


 
 Maybe he had in his mind to stop production after a certain amount of BHSE's were built (what ever the # is) and after this, thats it, no more, move onto something else.


----------



## Music Alchemist

joseph69 said:


> I'll wait, it adds to the excitement!


 
  
 Pretty sure you subconsciously worded this, because I used the exact same phrase just a few posts ago! XD


----------



## preproman

astrostar59 said:


> Jeeze, don't trip over the headphone mountain in the middle of your house! (Jealous) But you only have 2 ears.....


 
  
 Ha..  You have to hear them all to find out witch ones are for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 2 ears..  Like 2 eyes?  Many people have multiple TVs at home - should they just have 1?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




     Of course you can listen to all of them at the same time.  However, you can listen to all of them at different times - right?


----------



## rgs9200m

Yep, it would be very intriguing if Justin could do a KGSS-design/solid-state stat amp, if only for those who for practicality or convenience or care-and-feeding reasons prefer not to use a tube amp.


----------



## astrostar59

I think he would enjoy the challenge / new design aspect of a Carbon KGSShv I would think (hope). Now THAT would have me running for my credit card.
  
 My only reservation in a Carbon is the heat. IMO if it was me, I would do a 2 box, and have the hot bitts well away from the other caps and parts.
  
 I am no engineer, but I have seen heat issues with tube amps, so I can appreciate the trouble heat can cause, and reduction of capacitor life.
  
 Ha Ha, my 300B SETs were so flakey, they sounded off in the first hour, great for 4 hours, then flabby and loose after that. I am thinking the heat was
 the issue? God knows, what do I know.
  
 Anyway the big attraction of a Carbon being SS is the lack of power amp valves, i.e. those needing 400v plus current and the cost of said valves (good quality NOS versions). The BHSE has 20amps right? I wonder if that is the holy grail, the way a carbon could challenge the BHSE?
  
 The ONE thing a tube amp does have above SS regardless of price or design, is the ability to 'tune' the sound to an extent to your own system. How many times do you read that folk buy and sell, or moan about the treble in the 009s? It is that last bit of resolution we all crave for,but demand that silky treble as well, it is a difficult path, many amp designers bail out and bung components in that kill the higher details and decay, calm stuff down for easier system matching. The BHSE is capacitor less, and was (maybe) designed around the 007? No idea for sure, but the 009 came out after the BHSE was selling, so a 'system match' at any rate would be not possible.
  
 In an ideal world stuff from various sources and designs 'should' work together right. We audio freaks know different. It is why we do this, the journey to audio nirvana, or is it 'audio hell'?


----------



## preproman

I also think it would be great if Justin could do a Solid State amp Carbon or come up with an entirely new one.  Also using the already good looking BHSE two chases would be great.


----------



## David1961

preproman said:


> I also think it would be great if Justin could do a Solid State amp Carbon or come up with an entirely new one.  Also using the already good looking BHSE two chases would be great.




+1


----------



## rgs9200m

I don't know about the Carbon, but the kgss-hv mini (400v) makes the SR009 sound sweet and musical with very well defined bass AND it runs definitely warm but not hot like class-A dynamic amps. 'wonderful amp.
 So although I have not heard a Carbon with an 009, I'm not sure if the extra heat would be worth it. A regular HV version would be fine in my book.


----------



## Jones Bob

preproman said:


> IMO - this is true for the 2015 productions units of the (Black) SZ3 SR-007 MKII.  According to Stax there is not such thing as a 2.5.  There are only Mk2s.   This is my second 2015 production pair of the Black SZ3 MK2.  They both sound much better than the pair of 007As I got from Spritzer with the mod he put on them.
> 
> I'm going to order a pair of 007A from PJ just to see how they fair.  So at that point I will have the latest 007A and the latest 007 MK2.  There may not be any difference at all - I'll see.




I bought my SR-007 Mk2 from Yamas on his last Labor Day sale. Do you know of a way to tell what year they were manufactured?


----------



## mangler

Wow, very interesting about the new Mk2/007A! For various reasons I sold off my STAX about a year ago, so I guess I haven't kept up with all of the recent news  So, sorry for any confusion, but hopefully others found the discussion as useful and interesting as I did.
  
 The release of the L700 re-sparked my interest in STAX  (which is why I started following this thread again), and so I've been considering giving it another go. This info makes that even more likely. I'll probably wait to see what the feelings on the L700 are, and what preproman finds regarding the recent 007s, before making a purchase decision. Needless to say, I'm very excited and look forward to the coming months!


----------



## preproman

jones bob said:


> I bought my SR-007 Mk2 from Yamas on his last Labor Day sale. Do you know of a way to tell what year they were manufactured?


 
  
 Was that the 2014 Labor Day sale?  Your SN should be in the 14XX or 15XX.  I'm just guessing.


----------



## Jones Bob

It was Labor Day 2015 sale. Pretty good price, so I bought 'em. The s/n is SZ3 2069

First 007 I ever heard, so cannot compare with others. Only to my SR-009, which do a lot more for me on my KGST. Even did the Spritzer mods. 

Keeping them to try on my DIY Carbon.


----------



## gepardcv

After Tyll's recent praise for the blu-tack Spritzer mod, I finally applied to to my (recent model) 007A. Hint to anyone attempting it: go easy on the blu-tack. It should be visible through the black plate that you take off during disassembly, but should not stick to the earpads.
  
 The first thing I noticed is that the headphones became more prone to the Stax fart. They were nearly immune stock, and now it happens more than half the time when I adjust the headphones. Not actually sure if that's related to the filled ports or if I slightly changed the earpad spring while putting them back. Luckily, I find the 007 very comfortable, so don't need to adjust it often.
  
 Sound: it's difficult to tell without having a stock 007A to compare it to, but I'm cautiously optimistic about the effects of the mod. The differences are subtle. I was very happy with the stock 007A sound, the mod might have opened it up a smidgen in the treble? Bass was really good before, and it's really good now.


----------



## Music Alchemist

jones bob said:


> I bought my SR-007 Mk2 from Yamas on his last Labor Day sale. Do you know of a way to tell what year they were manufactured?


 
  
 I would ask them to be sure. While you're at it, you could ask for details on the chronology of all the revisions of the SR-007. Might have to contact someone at STAX Japan for the full story, though.


----------



## Jones Bob

music alchemist said:


> I would ask them to be sure. While you're at it, you could ask for details on the chronology of all the revisions of the SR-007. Might have to contact someone at STAX Japan for the full story, though.




I'll give that a try. Yamas is notorious about not answering emails. So is Stax. Maybe I'll get lucky.


----------



## ahnafakeef

So if the BHSE gets phased out, will the KGSSHV Carbon be the 'best' amp in existence for an SR-009?


----------



## rgs9200m

Does anyone with both an SR007 and an SR009 think it's worth having both?


----------



## Music Alchemist

ahnafakeef said:


> So if the BHSE gets phased out, will the KGSSHV Carbon be the 'best' amp in existence for an SR-009?


 
  
 Most people who have heard the DIY T2 say it's better than the BHSE. There is also the new Nanotube. But both of those amps are practically unobtainium.
  


rgs9200m said:


> Does anyone with both an SR007 and an SR009 think it's worth having both?


 
  
 I know some who do, and I recently mentioned (oh heck, I mention it all the time all over the place) that I want the SR-009, SR-007, _and_ SR-007MK2...but I'm crazy. Don't listen to me. haha


----------



## Kiats

music alchemist said:


> Most people who have heard the DIY T2 say it's better than the BHSE. There is also the new Nanotube. But both of those amps are practically unobtainium.
> 
> 
> I know some who do, and I recently mentioned (oh heck, I mention it all the time all over the place) that I want the SR-009, SR-007, _and_ SR-007MK2...but I'm crazy. Don't listen to me. haha




Heheh! I do. And, yes, I am probably crazy. Is it worth having all 3? Absolutely!


----------



## karlgerman

Sometimes i check the 007 if there is any favour over the 009 to me. But no, every time no.
 Since the 009 is on the market, i did not use the 007 any more.
  
 So 009 and the MartinLogans, thats it.
  
 I have to say i´m just a music listener and not a hardware collector.


----------



## Music Alchemist

kiats said:


> Heheh! I do. And, yes, I am probably crazy. Is it worth having all 3? Absolutely!


 
  
 Care to write up a comparison between the Abyss, SR-009, SR-007, and SR-007MK2?


----------



## Amleth

Anyone know where I might be able to audition Stax gear in Fukuoka? I've found a couple Hi-Fi shops (Max Hi-Fi and Hif-Fi Do), but neither carry much in the way of headphones. I need more leads.
  
 Does anyone know if the Bic Camera in Fukuoka city carries Stax? I remember the one in Akihabara had a very impressive selection of headphones and related equpment (Japanese, American and European, not so much Chinese), but I suspect the Fukuoka shop is a lot smaller than that one. Sadly it's still the nearest major city to me right now, stuck out in the Kyuushu boonies. Hopefully being a Japanese brand, someone somewhere stocks it...


----------



## mulveling

Has anyone who's given both the DIY T2 and BHSE more than a cursory listen ever chosen the BHSE as best? I'd be _extremely_ surprised at that, barring issues with the T2 unit. In fact beyond surprise, I'd be outright _suspicious_ to hear of such.
  
 As owner of 009 and 007 Mk I -- meh, sorta worth it to own both with a good non-bright KGSShv. I listen to the 009 almost exclusively, but on rare days my ears do seem to like something warmer. The 007 can be nice for the occasional different perspective, and it can impress the hell out of the Stax-less uninitiated if I don't want them to touch my precious 009. I'd listen to the 007 a lot more if I had a BHSE or a bright KGSShv...and less again if I had a T2. If I needed cash for some reason, the 007 would be gone and the 009 would leave much later, and even then only forcibly.


----------



## jcx

I understand that the original Stax T2 amps actually have audible power supply hum - at least one thing KG obsession with uV noise level regulated power likely fixes


----------



## AnakChan

amleth said:


> Anyone know where I might be able to audition Stax gear in Fukuoka? I've found a couple Hi-Fi shops (Max Hi-Fi and Hif-Fi Do), but neither carry much in the way of headphones. I need more leads.
> 
> Does anyone know if the Bic Camera in Fukuoka city carries Stax? I remember the one in Akihabara had a very impressive selection of headphones and related equpment (Japanese, American and European, not so much Chinese), but I suspect the Fukuoka shop is a lot smaller than that one. Sadly it's still the nearest major city to me right now, stuck out in the Kyuushu boonies. Hopefully being a Japanese brand, someone somewhere stocks it...


 

 Ask @Currawong. He lives there.


----------



## David1961

ahnafakeef said:


> So if the BHSE gets phased out, will the KGSSHV Carbon be the 'best' amp in existence for an SR-009?




Probably the best SS stats amp, and I would assume not just for the 009's, but don't know about best in existence


----------



## Music Alchemist

david1961 said:


> Probably the best SS stats amp, and I would assume not just for the 009's, but don't know about best in existence


 
  
 I also wonder how the KGSSHV Carbon and Cavalli Liquid Lightning 2 compare, especially since they're both solid-state.


----------



## David1961

music alchemist said:


> I also wonder how the KGSSHV Carbon and Cavalli Liquid Lightning 2 compare, especially since they're both solid-state.




When I'm looking towards what I think may be the best, which in this case is a SS stats amp, I look for build quality and reliability as much as SQ.
Now when I'm seeking advice on stats gear, I mostly ask one person who IMO is very knowledgable on that, but it's best I don't mention what he thinks of Cavalli gear.


----------



## Currawong

amleth said:


> Anyone know where I might be able to audition Stax gear in Fukuoka? I've found a couple Hi-Fi shops (Max Hi-Fi and Hif-Fi Do), but neither carry much in the way of headphones. I need more leads.
> 
> Does anyone know if the Bic Camera in Fukuoka city carries Stax? I remember the one in Akihabara had a very impressive selection of headphones and related equpment (Japanese, American and European, not so much Chinese), but I suspect the Fukuoka shop is a lot smaller than that one. Sadly it's still the nearest major city to me right now, stuck out in the Kyuushu boonies. Hopefully being a Japanese brand, someone somewhere stocks it...


 

 Artcrew has, or had a Stax rig there. In the back home theatre room they had a headphone set-up. Sometimes the Stax gear is in the front. I'm overdue to visit there if you'd like to go there one weekend.
  
 Bic Camera definitely doesn't have a Stax rig set-up. Yodobashi might, but it'd be a long shot. They used to have a high end room with Stax gear but even though everything has been redesigned a million times over, with much better headphone listening choices, they still don't have any Stax except in cupboards last I remember. 
  
 Best Denki in Tenjin has a very nice headphone listening table with high-end models, but, again, no Stax.


----------



## Lan647

rgs9200m said:


> Does anyone with both an SR007 and an SR009 think it's worth having both?


 
  
 Both are really nice-looking, really great sounding luxury headphones. If you like both and have money to spare, why not? I could settle for either one of them alone, but I do prefer the tonality of the 007.


----------



## wink

It's better to have 2 of each........


----------



## Amleth

currawong said:


> Artcrew has, or had a Stax rig there. In the back home theatre room they had a headphone set-up. Sometimes the Stax gear is in the front. I'm overdue to visit there if you'd like to go there one weekend.
> 
> Bic Camera definitely doesn't have a Stax rig set-up. Yodobashi might, but it'd be a long shot. They used to have a high end room with Stax gear but even though everything has been redesigned a million times over, with much better headphone listening choices, they still don't have any Stax except in cupboards last I remember.
> 
> Best Denki in Tenjin has a very nice headphone listening table with high-end models, but, again, no Stax.


 
  
 Thanks. Actually, it might have been a Yodobashi in Akiba now I think of it. I looked online for a Yodobashi in Fukuoka a while back but for some reason came the conclusion there wasn't one. Guess I need to check again. Best Denki and Artcrew are new to me too. I'll have to check them all out, but it's a few hours drive north so I don't know when I will, exactly. I'm only one or two paychecks away from a 009 rig but I want to see what the L700 can do first in case I can be satisfied setting my sights a little lower. I could get a halfway decent used motorbike with the difference...
  


wink said:


> It's better to have 2 of each........


 
  
 Well duh, that's the only way to run a _truly_ balanced setup. Separate, DAC, amp and headphone per ear, using only one cup of each and holding them in position the whole time. It's what all the hardcore audiophiles do. It's the only way you can be absolutely sure there's _no_ channel crosstalk.


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> I also wonder how the KGSSHV Carbon and Cavalli Liquid Lightning 2 compare, especially since they're both solid-state.


 
  
 Based on impressions I've read I wouldn't expect the LL2 to be close.  I'd expect a well built regular KGSSHV to be a step above the LL2.  But I'll never know for sure!


----------



## rgs9200m

LOL, these comments are starting to sound like the 'other' site.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Can anyone share their opinions on this retailer?
  
 http://www.elusivedisc.com/STAX/products/1212/
  
 Says authorized Stax, although the very outdated Stax website only shows Staxusa as the authorized Stax web dealer in the US.  Their price for the SR-L500 is barely any higher than Pricejapan, and the SRM-353X is only a tiny bit more pricey than the SRM-323S.


----------



## Pale Rider

rhamnetin said:


> Can anyone share their opinions on this retailer?
> 
> http://www.elusivedisc.com/STAX/products/1212/
> 
> Says authorized Stax, although the very outdated Stax website only shows Staxusa as the authorized Stax web dealer in the US.  Their price for the SR-L500 is barely any higher than Pricejapan, and the SRM-353X is only a tiny bit more pricey than the SRM-323S.


 

 Have never bought hardware from them, but they provide great service on discs. Lots of dealers in the USA, including Woo, HeadAmp, TTVJ, and many retailers.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

rhamnetin said:


> Can anyone share their opinions on this retailer?
> 
> http://www.elusivedisc.com/STAX/products/1212/
> 
> Says authorized Stax, although the very outdated Stax website only shows Staxusa as the authorized Stax web dealer in the US.  Their price for the SR-L500 is barely any higher than Pricejapan, and the SRM-353X is only a tiny bit more pricey than the SRM-323S.


 
 Don't know for the US (although I'm in Seattle right now), but Europe's official prices are said to be severely lowered. SR-L500 is @ 750 € for example in France (1250 € for comparable SR-507), and prices of all the current models should follow this trend very soon.

 Ali


----------



## preproman

david1961 said:


> When I'm looking towards what I think may be the best, which in this case is a SS stats amp, I look for build quality and reliability as much as SQ.
> Now when I'm seeking advice on stats gear, I mostly ask one person who IMO is very knowledgable on that, but it's best I don't mention what he thinks of Cavalli gear.


 
  
 We all know Kevin and Birgir don't really care for Alex electrostat designs.  Both Kevin and Birigir are very knowledgeable but here's the kicker - So is Alex.  They just have a different outlook on how to achieve the same thing - Good sounding amps.  
  
 Everyone is not hung up on aesthetically and we all know Sound Quality is most important and I fully understand that.  However, I love me some good looking gear.  You take a Cabon and put in a BHSE enclosure - I'll be all over it like white on rice..


----------



## Rhamnetin

pale rider said:


> Have never bought hardware from them, but they provide great service on discs. Lots of dealers in the USA, including Woo, HeadAmp, TTVJ, and many retailers.


 
  
 Right, although Woo and Headamp won't carry the SRM-353X.  I'm leaning toward the SR-L500 and SRM-353X combo.


ali-pacha said:


> Don't know for the US (although I'm in Seattle right now), but Europe's official prices are said to be severely lowered. SR-L500 is @ 750 € for example in France (1250 € for comparable SR-507), and prices of all the current models should follow this trend very soon.
> 
> Ali


 
  
 Yeah I'm seeing the same thing for US prices.  The SR-L500 is over $200 less than the SR-507.


----------



## preproman

rhamnetin said:


> Based on impressions I've read I wouldn't expect the LL2 to be close.  I'd expect a well built regular KGSSHV to be a step above the LL2.  But I'll never know for sure!


 
  
 Not so fast my friend.  I'm sure many have read this by now.  The reviewer owned both sold his KGSSHV and kept the LL2.  I guess that means something.  
  
  
 The Other Black Beauty:
  
 http://headphone.guru/cavalli-audio-liquid-lightning-2t-the-other-black-beauty/


----------



## ctemkin

rhamnetin said:


> Can anyone share their opinions on this retailer?
> 
> http://www.elusivedisc.com/STAX/products/1212/
> 
> Says authorized Stax, although the very outdated Stax website only shows Staxusa as the authorized Stax web dealer in the US.  Their price for the SR-L500 is barely any higher than Pricejapan, and the SRM-353X is only a tiny bit more pricey than the SRM-323S.


 

 I bought my 009 from them.  I haven't had any issues with the 009, so I can't report on getting warranty service.  They regularly have store-wide discounts, and they applied to the 009 when I bought it from them, so I would wait until they are offering the discount.  I have also bought the portable STAX headphone and assorted CDs from them.  I have never had a problem with delivery times or anything else.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Thanks for your inputs, @Music Alchemist and @David1961
 --------------------------------------------------------------
 Pondering of a newbie to audio gears: what warrants the sky-high price of the massively exorbitantly priced equipment (HPs, amps, DACs etc.) like $5000 (and higher) HPs/amps? Is it because of the high production cost, proper scaling of audio quality with price (which I highly doubt), or simply because there are customers who are willing to splurge so much?
  
 I mean, even with my familiarity with cutthroat CPU/GPU prices of $1000 apiece in the PC gaming realm, I am finding the prices on high-end/flagship (or 'summit-fi', if you will) audio gears to be truly overwhelming.
  
 Apologies for the rant. But I'd really appreciate an explanation.


----------



## rgs9200m

Elusive Disc has been around forever and I've used them and they are great and reliable.
 And ahnafakeef, hi end audio has always been like this, 50+ years at least, where things can cost as much as a house. Read audio gon or asylum. Headphones and headphone amps are relatively cheap in general compared to this. The high end is its own world and is kind of a parallel universe that a surprisingly huge part of the population don't know about at all or even that it exists.


----------



## Jones Bob

rhamnetin said:


> Can anyone share their opinions on this retailer?
> 
> http://www.elusivedisc.com/STAX/products/1212/
> 
> Says authorized Stax, although the very outdated Stax website only shows Staxusa as the authorized Stax web dealer in the US.  Their price for the SR-L500 is barely any higher than Pricejapan, and the SRM-353X is only a tiny bit more pricey than the SRM-323S.




Bought my SR-207 from them on sale. Highly recommended.

Just checked and very reasonable price on the new SR-L700 with US warranty. Only around $200 difference delivered vs Price Japan.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Thanks to everyone who replied.  I'll likely get the SR-L500 and SRM-353X from them.  The price difference vs Pricejapan for the L500 is less than $100, and if I ever encounter problems with it I'll be glad I bought it from a US retailer.


----------



## ahnafakeef

rgs9200m said:


> Elusive Disc has been around forever and I've used them and they are great and reliable.
> And ahnafakeef, hi end audio has always been like this, 50+ years at least, where things can cost as much as a house. Read audio gon or asylum. Headphones and headphone amps are relatively cheap in general compared to this. The high end is its own world and is kind of a parallel universe that a surprisingly huge part of the population don't know about at all or even that it exists.


 
 Is there any particular article/thread you'd recommend on those sites? Any indication as to where an uninitiated can start from would be helpful.
  
 Who are these high-end manufacturers, and why do people not know about them? Is it a lack of advertising/marketing on the companies' part, or a lack of interest on the users' part?
  
 I sincerely apologize for discussing off-topic stuff here.


----------



## crazychile

rhamnetin said:


> Thanks to everyone who replied.  I'll likely get the SR-L500 and SRM-353X from them.  The price difference vs Pricejapan for the L500 is less than $100, and if I ever encounter problems with it I'll be glad I bought it from a US retailer.


 
  
 I'm wondering if PriceJapan is high compared to their normal discounts because the models are new and demand is high, or is it that in the US we caught a break and managed some lower, introductory pricing?


----------



## Rhamnetin

crazychile said:


> I'm wondering if PriceJapan is high compared to their normal discounts because the models are new and demand is high, or is it that in the US we caught a break and managed some lower, introductory pricing?


 
  
 It looks like the latter.  US and Europe are catching a break finally.  The SR-L500 for example seems as if it's going to replace the SR-507, and in the US the former is over $200 cheaper even at this very moment.


----------



## rgs9200m

Here's a good thread that's been going on since 2009:
 http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ymisc&1233959924
  
 Here's a good  thread that's been active for ~15 years:
 http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ymisc&978488055
  
 Here's good book by some pioneers in the field
 http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Guide-High-End-Audio/dp/0978649362/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1JF1BJKS4JZ5ATE92QE8


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> Based on impressions I've read I wouldn't expect the LL2 to be close.  I'd expect a well built regular KGSSHV to be a step above the LL2.  But I'll never know for sure!


 
  
 Based on the many posts I've read by them, purrin and MuppetFace both like the LL2 more than the BHSE and KGSSHV. purrin used to own the DIY T2 as well. I don't recall what he said about DIY T2 vs LL2. And as preproman said and has been discussed here recently, MacedonianHero likes the LL2 more than the KGSSHV. This is all in the context of driving the SR-009, though. The SR-007 is a different story.


----------



## bmichels

music alchemist said:


> Based on the many posts I've read by them, purrin and MuppetFace both like the LL2 more than the BHSE and KGSSHV. purrin used to own the DIY T2 as well. I don't recall what he said about DIY T2 vs LL2. And as preproman said and has been discussed here recently, MacedonianHero likes the LL2 more than the KGSSHV. This is all in the context of driving the SR-009, though. The SR-007 is a different story.


 
  
 OK but may be the new  KGSShv Carbon is better than the KGSShv and therefore can favorably compeat with the BHSE ?


----------



## Music Alchemist

bmichels said:


> OK but may be the new  KGSShv Carbon is better than the KGSShv and therefore can favorably compeat with the BHSE ?


 
  
 Yeah, it's definitely better than the normal KGSSHV, but personal taste will determine which one you prefer. (If you can hear them all, that is.)


----------



## comzee

bmichels said:


> OK but may be the new  KGSShv Carbon is better than the KGSShv and therefore can favorably compeat with the BHSE ?


 
 I wish I had access to more amps. I have the Carbon but have no bearing on how good it is, because it's the only estat amp I've heard.
 There's a Minneapolis meet coming up soon, hopefully someone will have another estat amp.
  
 I can make a comparison between my 009+Carbon and my HD800+WA7. The 009 is less harsh in the treble then the 800, although I'm thinking that's because the 800s have that 6khz spike, which there's a common mod to fix that.


----------



## Music Alchemist

comzee said:


> I wish I had access to more amps. I have the Carbon but have no bearing on how good it is, because it's the only estat amp I've heard.
> There's a Minneapolis meet coming up soon, hopefully someone will have another estat amp.
> 
> I can make a comparison between my 009+Carbon and my HD800+WA7. The 009 is less harsh in the treble then the 800, although I'm thinking that's because the 800s have that 6khz spike, which there's a common mod to fix that.


 
  
 The cool thing about electrostats (at least in my experience) is that you can turn up the treble like crazy with EQ and it still doesn't sound harsh in the way that dynamics can.


----------



## comzee

music alchemist said:


> The cool thing about electrostats (at least in my experience) is that you can turn up the treble like crazy with EQ and it still doesn't sound harsh in the way that dynamics can.


 
 Kanye West "I Am A God" at around 2:12 there's a screaming I always hated. The piercing treble killed my ears. Although, on my Stax that part is completely controlled.
 I do have to say, I think a big reason is the DAC I'm using as well. I find Delta-Sigma dacs tend to butcher treble in particular.


----------



## Music Alchemist

comzee said:


> Kanye West "I Am A God" at around 2:12 there's a screaming I always hated. The piercing treble killed my ears. Although, on my Stax that part is completely controlled.
> I do have to say, I think a big reason is the DAC I'm using as well. I find Delta-Sigma dacs tend to butcher treble in particular.


 
  
 What about _this_ song?


----------



## HemiSam

music alchemist said:


> Yeah, it's definitely better than the normal KGSSHV, but personal taste will determine which one you prefer. (If you can hear them all, that is.)


 
  
 So you have had the opportunity to listen to both of these amps?
  
 HS


----------



## HemiSam

music alchemist said:


> Well, if/when I get the LL2, BHSE, DIY T2, and so on, I'll let you know how I think they compare. I only care about the sound. Doesn't have to have all the best technical stuff. purrin, MuppetFace, and MacedonianHero are all very experienced well-respected members. If they say something sounds good, I believe them.
> 
> 
> *No, just research.*


 
  
 Ah....OK.
  
 HS


----------



## Lan647

Tuesday night spent in the best of ways. Switching from the 009 to the 007 is a sad story... for the 009


----------



## Music Alchemist

lan647 said:


> Tuesday night spent in the best of ways. Switching from the 009 to the 007 is a sad story... for the 009


 
  
 hahaha
  
 ...Wanna know why I'm laughing?
  
 Because I just set this photo as my desktop wallpaper. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 By the way, since you are one of the few who likes the SR-007 more than the SR-009 in every way, can you go into detail about the ways you prefer it? Also, do you listen to all styles of music or only some? I ask because if you don't listen to all the genres you can, your exposure to a headphone's capabilities will be limited. The majority consensus is that the SR-009 is far superior technically, and it definitely has a more neutral frequency response, so it's interesting to read about different perspectives.


----------



## gepardcv

music alchemist said:


> The majority consensus is that the SR-009 is far superior technically, and it definitely has a more neutral frequency response, so it's interesting to read about different perspectives.


 
  
 The "majority consensus" was formed by people who AB-tested the 007 and 009 side-by-side, probably plugged into the same amp. That amp almost certainly did not have separate volume controls for its outputs. The higher sensitivity of the 009 made it play louder. Louder always sounds better in AB-testing. The 009 also happens to also be somewhat brighter, which also sounds more impressive in AB-testing. Double-whammy against the 007. It would be more fair to compare the two headphones running from one source but using two separate amps, volume-matched as well as possible.
  
 I _like_ the 009, but I prefer to listen to the 007.


----------



## Lan647

music alchemist said:


> hahaha
> 
> ...Wanna know why I'm laughing?
> 
> ...


 

 In my view it's as simple as the 007 sounding more real/authentic than the 009. If you come from the 009, the 007 may seem less detailed and less impressive at first listen. But after you are used to the 007, the 009 simply sounds a little too bright and thin and it's a step back from a live performance. I don't go to a whole lot of live music events but I'm very used to the sound of a choir or an organ in a church environment. The organ sounds so much more real through the 007.
  
 I listen to a lot of music (jazz, classical, soul, rock, electronic, pop) and there is not a single genre where I prefer the 009. 

 Also, there is some real truth I think to this comment above me ^


----------



## Music Alchemist

gepardcv said:


> The "majority consensus" was formed by people who AB-tested the 007 and 009 side-by-side, probably plugged into the same amp. That amp almost certainly did not have separate volume controls for its outputs. The higher sensitivity of the 009 made it play louder. Louder always sounds better in AB-testing. The 009 also happens to also be somewhat brighter, which also sounds more impressive in AB-testing. Double-whammy against the 007. It would be more fair to compare the two headphones running from one source but using two separate amps, volume-matched as well as possible.
> 
> I _like_ the 009, but I prefer to listen to the 007.


 
  
 I don't think that's the reason. I mean, people are free to move the volume knob to whatever level they want. It's easy to tell the differences between headphones regardless of volume level. (I do know volume-matching is ideal, though.) Some who auditioned them did so on various amps. And many have owned them (along with various amps) instead of merely auditioning them. I have text files chock-full of comparisons (from across the Internet) between these two headphones under all sorts of conditions, and the general consensus is...consistent. haha
  
 As for brightness, the SR-009 is measurably more neutral than the SR-007.
  
 http://cdn.head-fi.org/8/8d/8d765f27_STAX_SR-009SNSZ92251_Frequency_Response_HRTF.png
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR009SNSZ92251KGSS.pdf
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR007.pdf
  
 The first graph is mislabeled, but look how closely it follows the green line, then compare the two sets of measurements to see what I mean.
  
 Anyway, I respect each individual's preferences. In my opinion, if one is investing in high-end electrostatic amps, it only makes sense to get both headphones.


----------



## Music Alchemist

lan647 said:


> In my view it's as simple as the 007 sounding more real/authentic than the 009. If you come from the 009, the 007 may seem less detailed and less impressive at first listen. But after you are used to the 007, the 009 simply sounds a little too bright and thin and it's a step back from a live performance. I don't go to a whole lot of live music events but I'm very used to the sound of a choir or an organ in a church environment. The organ sounds so much more real through the 007.
> 
> I listen to a lot of music (jazz, classical, soul, rock, electronic, pop) and there is not a single genre where I prefer the 009.
> 
> Also, there is some real truth I think to this comment above me ^


 
  
 Very cool. I look forward to hearing it. By the way, what's the story behind getting to borrow an SR-009?


----------



## Lan647

music alchemist said:


> Very cool. I look forward to hearing it. By the way, what's the story behind getting to borrow an SR-009?


 

 It belongs to a friend of mine (STAX collector) who got it for a bargain price. He don't fancy it much, like me he much prefers the 007 and the 009 just rested there in its fancy box. I saw it as such a pity that such a pretty headphone would just lie there to no use so I offered to give it some love. 
  
 Now - a year later ha-ha - that I finally have a 007 myself I don't know what we will do with the damn thing


----------



## potkettleblack

I would really like some advice from some experienced Stax users please.
  
 My dealer has the below deals:
  
 http://www.highendheadphones.co.uk/headphones/stax-sr-727-ii-omega-reference-system
  
 http://www.highendheadphones.co.uk/stax/stax-sr-007-mk2-omega-reference-system-kimik-modified?page=2
  
 Are these amps really suited for the 007's?
  
 Are these good deals?
  
 Is the more expensive option with the kimik  'worth' it?
  
 With the announcement of the LCD4 I have released just how far I am willing to go with this hobby.
  
 Current options: LCD4. HEK, LCD X (considering owning again), SR007.
  
 I will be auditioning all of these soon for an entire day and just wondered what you all thought.
  
 Many thanks


----------



## ufospls2

lan647 said:


> It belongs to a friend of mine (STAX collector) who got it for a bargain price. He don't fancy it much, like me he much prefers the 007 and the 009 just rested there in its fancy box. I saw it as such a pity that such a pretty headphone would just lie there to no use so I offered to give it some love.
> 
> Now - a year later ha-ha - that I finally have a 007 myself I don't know what we will do with the damn thing


 
 Please consider charity..........to me.......haha. I should never have listened to the 009, it ruined me.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Let's say I have a little over $3,000 set aside in the near future, as projected. If I got an SR-007 (instead of SR-009) first, I could afford a much better amp!
  
 So...which are the best amps under $1,500? (Bear in mind that I might use an SR-009 with it too.)
  
 If anyone can describe the sound of various amps in that price range, particularly with the SR-007, that would be great!
  


lan647 said:


> It belongs to a friend of mine (STAX collector) who got it for a bargain price. He don't fancy it much, like me he much prefers the 007 and the 009 just rested there in its fancy box. I saw it as such a pity that such a pretty headphone would just lie there to no use so I offered to give it some love.
> 
> Now - a year later ha-ha - that I finally have a 007 myself I don't know what we will do with the damn thing


 
  
 Send it to me, of course!


----------



## sensui123

I have really no experience (I can't count demo'in in a small shop in akihabara experience) with STAX, but I'm preparing to jump to the electrostat game here very soon as soon as I finish up with my other silly hobbies like watches and collectables.  Reason being that I just can't see the planar/dynamic game get much better with the current lineup and TOTL equipment.  I am listening right now the HE-1000 I just received and while I am in the honeymoon phase of lovin it to death (only just got it)......realistically if you asked me is it that huge of a jump from a well chained HD800....I would honestly have to say no.  I do think the HEK is head and shoulders above the Audeze stuff I've heard though as an all arounder.
  
 Back to STAX, the reason for jumping head first is because I want something completely different.  I feel like I've exhausted the playing field for the most part on the planar/dynamic side minus the abyss....which I'm decided to pass over due to many of the recessed mids account.....that's something that I really don't like for the headphone game but strangely something I'm ok with for IEMs hah.  
  
 IMO, I'd try to be happy and satisfied with the Audeze, Hifiman, Senn lineups first before jumping to STAX.  They are already quite capable with the right equipment.  Best of luck.


----------



## Music Alchemist

sensui123 said:


> IMO, I'd try to be happy and satisfied with the Audeze, Hifiman, Senn lineups first before jumping to STAX.  They are already quite capable with the right equipment.  Best of luck.


 
  
 Ya know, you should really quote people...'cause it almost looks like you're giving _me_ advice.


----------



## Lan647

music alchemist said:


> Let's say I have a little over $3,000 set aside in the near future, as projected. If I got an SR-007 (instead of SR-009) first, I could afford a much better amp!
> 
> *So...which are the best amps under $1,500? (Bear in mind that I might use an SR-009 with it too.)*
> 
> ...


 

 You could always order a 727 from pricejapan or joynetmall or something (joynetmall sells it for under 1300 dollars now, so it's cheaper than ever) and fix it up. It has to be modified a little but after that many agree it's the finest amp STAX currently makes and it will drive the 007 pretty well.


----------



## sensui123

music alchemist said:


> Ya know, you should really quote people...'cause it almost looks like you're giving _me_ advice.


 
  
 Yes this is a good idea.....this thread moves too quick and I type too slow lol.  I was talking to potkettleblack since he asked.  No one can stop your STAX quest I'm sure.


----------



## Music Alchemist

lan647 said:


> You could always order a 727 from pricejapan or joynetmall or something (joynetmall sells it for under 1300 dollars now, so it's cheaper than ever) and fix it up. It has to be modified a little but after that many agree it's the finest amp STAX currently makes and it will drive the 007 pretty well.


 
  
 What about DIY KG designs? Aren't some of those available for under $1,500? I may be able to go to $2,000 or more, in which case I could perhaps go for a KGST, but let's just assume I can't go over $1,500.
  


sensui123 said:


> No one can stop your STAX quest I'm sure.


 
  
 Many have tried, but now...*insert supervillian catch phrase here* lol


----------



## nassq8

music alchemist said:


> What about _this_ song?


 
  
 Damn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ..... This thing is a guaranteed recipe for ear tinnitus . Just be careful.


----------



## Lan647

music alchemist said:


> What about DIY KG designs? Aren't some of those available for under $1,500? I may be able to go to $2,000 or more, in which case I could perhaps go for a KGST, but let's just assume I can't go over $1,500.
> 
> 
> Many have tried, but now...*insert supervillian catch phrase here* lol


 

 The KGST is the STAX 007T amp design on steroids. If you can find one for that price then sure it should sound very good with the 007s. I've heard a modified 007TII and it drove the 007 very well, so a well-built KGST will probably be at least as good.


----------



## Music Alchemist

nassq8 said:


> Damn
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm blasting it right now just to see my body's reaction again. Doesn't even hurt! In fact, I find it quite pleasurable. Ha. I'm used to crazy stuff like this. (But yeah, I'm sure it could at least temporarily increase the tinnitus levels in anyone.) My tastes in music are more diverse than just about anyone else I know of. I might listen to an opera piece after this raw black metal. haha
  


lan647 said:


> The KGST is the STAX 007T amp design on steroids. If you can find one for that price then sure it should sound very good with the 007s. I've heard a modified 007TII and it drove the 007 very well, so a well-built KGST will probably be at least as good.


 
  
 Think it'll sound better than the first amp you recommended?


----------



## bearFNF

Ack!! that's an, um, *interesting?*, track.


----------



## Lan647

music alchemist said:


> I'm blasting it right now just to see my body's reaction again. Doesn't even hurt! In fact, I find it quite pleasurable. Ha. I'm used to crazy stuff like this. (But yeah, I'm sure it could at least temporarily increase the tinnitus levels in anyone.) My tastes in music are more diverse than just about anyone else I know of. I might listen to an opera piece after this raw black metal. haha
> 
> 
> *Think it'll sound better than the first amp you recommended?*


 

 No clue. Ask the STAX mafia


----------



## Music Alchemist

bearfnf said:


> Ack!! that's an, um, *interesting?*, track.


 
  
 Perhaps you should consider changing your listed music preferences from "almost everything" to...you decide. ^_^ But that's a pretty raw recording even for extreme metal. I'm sure you know that metal is one of the most diverse types of music.


----------



## Music Alchemist

lan647 said:


> No clue. Ask the STAX mafia


 
  
_Oh Mafiaaa, where art thou?_
  
 lol. Today I actually watched a Futurama episode starring the Robot Mafia. XD


----------



## ufospls2

Obviously it wouldn't be ideal, but as a cheap stand in until being able to afford proper amplification, would a SRM-252S drive the 009...decently? I'm guessing no as it outputs a lot less power than say the 727? Im new to the electrostatic world and needing help!


----------



## Jones Bob

The 1st rule of Stax Mafia: You do not talk about Stax Mafia. At least on Head-Fi :wink_face:


----------



## Music Alchemist

So I mentioned an opera piece earlier. To anyone who wants to test out an amazing dramatic opera track on their STAX: look up "Diva" from the Blood+ Original Soundtrack 1! My god...such a majestic masterpiece. Gives me goosebumps. The soundtrack for that anime was composed and produced by Mark Mancina and Hans Zimmer, who also did the soundtracks for The Lion King, The Dark Knight, Twister, and other popular films.
  


ufospls2 said:


> Obviously it wouldn't be ideal, but as a cheap stand in until being able to afford proper amplification, would a SRM-252S drive the 009...decently? I'm guessing no as it outputs a lot less power than say the 727? Im new to the electrostatic world and needing help!


 

 It will make sound. Can't guarantee anything else. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The SRM-212 has the same specs as the SRM-252S, and I got plenty of volume when using an SRM-212 to drive an SR-207. For what it's worth, the SR-009 has the same sensitivity as the SR-207, though that's only one factor to consider. I'm certainly not implying that you'll get anywhere near the SR-009's potential with an entry-level amp.
  
 What is your budget? If you let everyone here know what you're working with, you'll get better help.
  
 Oh, and I'm assuming you're already importing the SR-009 from PriceJapan.com to save tons of money.


----------



## Lan647

ufospls2 said:


> Obviously it wouldn't be ideal, but as a cheap stand in until being able to afford proper amplification, would a SRM-252S drive the 009...decently? I'm guessing no as it outputs a lot less power than say the 727? Im new to the electrostatic world and needing help!


 

 The 009 isn't any harder to drive than the Lambdas. But such a low-end amp for the very much high-end 009 seems a little like pushing it... why not go for a used 006T or T1 and a used Lambda Nova Signature instead while you save up for the 009?


----------



## comzee

music alchemist said:


> I'm blasting it right now just to see my body's reaction again. Doesn't even hurt! In fact, I find it quite pleasurable. Ha. I'm used to crazy stuff like this. (But yeah, I'm sure it could at least temporarily increase the tinnitus levels in anyone.) My tastes in music are more diverse than just about anyone else I know of. I might listen to an opera piece after this raw black metal. haha


 
 That song isn't terribly treble heavy. I think the reason it might be piercing, is the subpar production. The instruments are all smashed together on one microphone it sounds like. Shove that threw a bad DAC, and you have a brick wall of sound.

 If you want something with real harsh treble try this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa-8GsMhznc
 Which admittedly still doesn't hurt my ears with the 009s, but sucks to listen to.


----------



## Music Alchemist

comzee said:


> That song isn't terribly treble heavy. I think the reason it might be piercing, is the subpar production. The instruments are all smashed together on one microphone it sounds like. Shove that threw a bad DAC, and you have a brick wall of sound.
> 
> If you want something with real harsh treble try this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa-8GsMhznc
> Which admittedly still doesn't hurt my ears with the 009s, but sucks to listen to.


 
  
 Yeah, the production is lo-fi, but that's what makes it so great in the context of raw black metal. When BM is overproduced, it loses its evilness. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (But I do enjoy well-produced BM as well, including bands that hire orchestras.)
  
 I like Aphex Twin! As far as electronica (for the readers, not to be confused with the many other genres of electronic music) goes, I also love Amethystium, Boards Of Canada, Cybo, and Autechre. But yeah, the high frequencies in that track are annoying.


----------



## rgs9200m

I'm just speculating, but now that the Carbon has growing availability there may be some good deals on KGSS-HVs in the near future as people upgrade. If I was looking for a tight-budget solution, I would keep my eyes open. That's how I got my KGSS-HV from a user I think was heading in that direction. Don't settle. Get a genuine KGSS-HV. Now that I have it, I don't feel the need for anything better. As I see it, you are much better off diverting resources to your DAC, which is all-important with something as revealing as an SR009. The 009 lets you hear every DAC quality like a microscope.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rgs9200m said:


> I'm just speculating, but now that the Carbon has growing availability there may be some good deals on KGSS-HVs in the near future as people upgrade. If I was looking for a tight-budget solution, I would keep my eyes open. That's how I got my KGSS-HV from a user I think was heading in that direction. Don't settle. Get a genuine KGSS-HV. Now that I have it, I don't feel the need for anything better.


 
  
 How much was the cheapest KGSSHV you've seen on the used market in the past?
  
 P.S. Looks like you haven't updated your profile in a long time. I've read so many of your posts talking about having all this stuff, yet most of it isn't listed on your profile.


----------



## rgs9200m

Nah, my profile is old. If you start making offers, I think you can get in under $2400 for a full size, or even lower for a mini, which is a great amp. I changed a lot. I started with a Lambda Nova phone / Stax T1W amp back in 1998,
 then, for 8 years, SR007s w/ 007t amps (both versions) and tried a 727 amp for a short time, then an SR009 w/ the 007t/ii amp. I upgraded to more expensive tubes in the amp.
 I finally got the SR009 w/a KGSS-HV mini (400v version w/single-ended and balanced inputs) and now I'm happy and done. The DAC is from the EMM folks.
 I fooled around w/Stax amps way too long because I was stupid. Please learn from my mistakes and don't mess around with the Stax amps, modded, cheap, combo deals or whatever.
 It'll just lead to heartache and thrashing.
 But I would not wait too long to get one from Spritzer because he's the most reliable source and who knows when he'll get tired of doing this.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Here's a question for those of you who like the SR-007 more than the SR-009: Do you listen to extreme metal and electronic music? If so, please elaborate on what you like more about the SR-007 with these genres.
  


rgs9200m said:


> Nah, my profile is old. If you start making offers, I think you can get in under $2400 for a full size, or even lower for a mini, which is a great amp. I changed a lot. I started with a Lambda Nova phone / Stax T1W amp back in 1998,
> then, for 8 years, SR007s w/ 007t amps (both versions) and tried a 727 amp for a short time, then an SR009 w/ the 007t/ii amp. I upgraded to more expensive tubes in the amp.
> I finally got the SR009 w/a KGSS-HV mini (400v version w/single-ended and balanced inputs) and now I'm happy and done. The DAC is from the EMM folks.
> I fooled around w/Stax amps way too long because I was stupid. Please learn from my mistakes and don't mess around with the Stax amps, modded, cheap, combo deals or whatever.
> ...


 
  
 Intriguing story! So did you ever try the SR-007 on some of the best amps?
  
 Ehh...I'm kind of...blacklisted by him. (Don't ask.)


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

Come on folks, do you have to be so sober and patient?  theres two new stax HPs coming out in 48 hours and hardly any sp[eculation or hopes written about them.  See Fiio x7 or Chord Mojo, to see the other extreme.
 Doesn't anyone care or look forward to their outcoming. How about some informed guessing re there sound signature, or thoughts about materials, anything please.


----------



## Music Alchemist

vgoghs earfrmsc said:


> Come on folks, do you have to be so sober and patient?  theres two new stax HPs coming out in 48 hours and hardly any sp[eculation or hopes written about them.  See Fiio x7 or Chord Mojo, to see the other extreme.
> Doesn't anyone care or look forward to their outcoming. How about some informed guessing re there sound signature, or thoughts about materials, anything please.


 
  
 The new STAX headphones have been discussed here. Do you not keep up with the thread? I also shared some authentic info (not guessing) pertaining to the sound and construction.
  
 Anyway, many owners of the SR-009 and/or SR-007 don't really care about the lower-end models.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I own both 007mk1 and 009 (and Lambda Sig, and SR-X/mk3 Pro...and so on...).
 Out of modded SRM-727II, I do prefer 009 by a very large margin. The only "drawback" of 009 are bass quantity. Altough bass slam and quality are way above on 009 IME.
 007mk1 are somehow dull sounding "out of the box", you want to kick them in the ass in order to get some real dynamic. I think that's why BHSE does exist 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 On the other hand, they are very relaxing, maybe better on very long listening sessions. But I like my music with energy...considering some HD800 in the future.
  
 Sensitivity and dynamics are also two different stories IMO. To picture it :
 - Sigma Pro and 007mk1 have the same sensitivity, but the latter has less slam on "regular" amps (and that includes modded SRM-727II)
 - Lambdas (for instance Lambda Signature) and SR-009 have the same sensitivity, but even if the latter is far more dynamic than 007mk1, you do feel they need a strong amp to really shine on dynamics. Lambda Signature out of a regular amp have more dynamics than 009
  
 2 cents, YMMV, and so on.
  
 Ali


----------



## Music Alchemist

ali-pacha said:


> I own both 007mk1 and 009 (and Lambda Sig, and SR-X/mk3 Pro...and so on...).
> Out of modded SRM-727II, I do prefer 009 by a very large margin. The only "drawback" of 009 are bass quantity. Altough bass slam and quality are way above on 009 IME.
> 007mk1 are somehow dull sounding "out of the box", you want to kick them in the ass in order to get some real dynamic. I think that's why BHSE does exist
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's the main thing that concerns me with the SR-007. I don't want it to be too laid-back, smooth, warm, polite, boring, etc. And some people do describe it that way. But I looooved the SR-207, which is merely an entry-level model, so perhaps the SR-007 would be plenty exciting for me. (I favor accuracy above all else. I don't want my ideal headphones to be too exciting or too boring.) I'm definitely getting both it and the SR-009; just brainstorming whether it may be a better move to get the SR-007 + better amp first rather than the SR-009 + lesser amp.


----------



## HemiSam

So much drivel on here.  Any way to block someone's posts to keep this thread interesting?
  
 HS


----------



## Music Alchemist

hemisam said:


> So much drivel on here.  Any way to block someone's posts to keep this thread interesting?


 
  
 Go to profile and click block member. ^‿^
  
 (But I have seen no drivel...)


----------



## HemiSam

music alchemist said:


> Go to profile and click block member. ^‿^
> 
> (But I have seen no drivel...)


 
  
 Thank goodness.  A useful post.
  
 (can't imagine why...)
  
  




  
 HS


----------



## Music Alchemist

hemisam said:


> Thank goodness.  A useful post.
> 
> (can't imagine why...)
> 
> ...


 
  
 ehehe. Seems I define drivel as "stuff that is false and nonsensical" while you define it as "stuff I don't like."


----------



## rgs9200m

A few years ago I went to the Axpona show and Woo Audio had the big stat amp (the Wes) with an A/B comparison setup with the SR007 and the SR009. This was the first time I heard an 009.
 I was able to go back and forth for some time, adjusting volume as I wanted.
 The 007 was quite nice, but I kept feeling I liked my own LCD3 at home better, as it was more vibrant with better fleshed out images. But the 009 was a different story. It sounded darn real, not like a "better 007",
 but like something I had never heard before. But it was sort of bright in the upper mids on this amp. Anyway, based on this, I ended up getting an 009 and with now with the KG amp there is basically no brightness or fatigue.
 I did however feel the SR007 was more comfortable with its cushy ear pads, and I miss that with the more basic formation of the 009.
 All this for what it's worth to the reader, just my impressions.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rgs9200m said:


> A few years ago I went to the Axpona show and Woo Audio had the big stat amp (the Wes) with an A/B comparison setup with the SR007 and the SR009. This was the first time I heard an 009.
> I was able to go back and forth for some time, adjusting volume as I wanted.
> The 007 was quite nice, but I kept feeling I liked my own LCD3 at home better, as it was more vibrant with better fleshed out images. But the 009 was a different story. It sounded darn real, not like a "better 007",
> but like something I had never heard before. But it was sort of bright in the upper mids on this amp. Anyway, based on this, I ended up getting an 009 and with now with the KG amp there is basically no brightness or fatigue.
> ...


 
  
 It's so interesting how people feel that one sounds much more realistic than the other, with opinions going both ways. At the moment I'm re-reading through this and this review by Asr, for the SR-009 vs SR-007 and KGSS vs BHSE.


----------



## Tinkerer

music alchemist said:


> Here's a question for those of you who like the SR-007 more than the SR-009: Do you listen to extreme metal and electronic music? If so, please elaborate on what you like more about the SR-007 with these genres.


 
  
 SR-007 has slightly better bass which is nice in power metal, especially when the step around 60hz is fixed in an equalizer. My real problem is I can tell you what I like about it but not compare it to the SR-009 well.
  
 But metal is notoriously poorly mastered. I remember the first time I noticed some random burst of static in a track was with my old rebuilt ESP-6's, my very first electrostatic headphones. I spent several hours rechecking all my work and getting a rip of the CD I was listening to. It was the music itself. You'll also notice a lot of crappy copypaste blaats and blobby whumps from poorly recorded brass and drums in all sorts of non-orchestral stuff too for some reason. And don't forget the overdriven tube crunch of some guitars. Definitely makes you get a couple of reference tracks after that to listen to and see what your system is doing vs. the recording.


----------



## rgs9200m

Well, it's the same phenomenon with the HD800. That's an extremely polarizing phone. Some people really love it, some really hate it. Some audio components (especially speakers and headphones) seem to trigger the opposite of consensus about whether they are "good" or not.
 I think Wilson speakers fall into this category.


----------



## n3rdling

hemisam said:


> So much drivel on here.  Any way to block someone's posts to keep this thread interesting?
> 
> HS


 
  
 Heh, in the matter of about a week he's already 3 posts away from surpassing my post total in this thread over a period of 26 months.
  
 Stax threads I and II were the best threads for years on HF, bar none.  This one has been hijacked by a handful of people who either want to discuss DACs or ask people to repeat posts they've made dozens of times already.


----------



## Music Alchemist

n3rdling said:


> Heh, in the matter of about a week he's already 3 posts away from surpassing my post total in this thread over a period of 26 months.
> 
> Stax threads I and II were the best threads for years on HF, bar none.  This one has been hijacked by a handful of people who either want to discuss DACs or ask people to repeat posts they've made dozens of times already.


 
  
 Meowww. I'm sorry. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I know I annoy people with my incessant enthusiasm. I just  STAX and can't help getting into all sorts of related discussions. It is my ardent hope that the following photo warms your heart enough to forgive me. (=^‥^=)


----------



## Sorrodje

music alchemist said:


> Meowww. I'm sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Could I suggest to see a psychologist ?


----------



## Music Alchemist

sorrodje said:


> Could I suggest to see a psychologist ?


 
  
 I'm the same as anyone else here...I love talking about headphones and music. I'm just...a little too enthusiastic for some people, I guess...


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Long term lurker here, but wish spritzer, kg and rest of stax mafia would return to this thread. Otherwise I am drawn to the stax thread on the other site. Until then, I am immensely enjoying my 007s on no pant's built kgst.


----------



## Tinkerer

potkettleblack said:


> I would really like some advice from some experienced Stax users please.
> 
> My dealer has the below deals:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I had the 727A and it was terrible stock with the SR-007 mk I. After the spritzer mod it improved quite markedly. And that only takes less than an hour of work with a bit of wire and a solder iron. I don't know how to describe the stock sound exactly. It has a lot of fine detail but everything sounds 'soft' like the notes are being rounded off. Might be a little different with the MK II. I wouldn't know. Honestly, I liked my probias SRA-12S better, and you can get one of those done for less than $500.
  
 As has been said before too, the prices are pretty high. You can get a used 727A or 727 II for under $1k or a little more than that for new. Same for the SR-007A or MK II. You could grab that system they want 3200 pounds for less than 2000 pounds if you bought it from the classifieds here or price japan or something. Though I don't know what kind of charges customs might slam you with.


----------



## Music Alchemist

The name's Double O Seven. SR-007. (Just made this.)


----------



## Tinkerer

Always liked that old Japanese advertisement campaign. The lambda one looks kind of goofy though.
  
 EDIT: Anybody got a current price and source on the Pawel Diffuse Field HP-1 for the SR-007 without having to translate my emails with terrible machine code?


----------



## Music Alchemist

tinkerer said:


> Always liked that old Japanese advertisement campaign. The lambda one looks kind of goofy though.


 
  
 Wait, you mean they actually made James Bond references like I just did? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Feel free to link me.


----------



## Michgelsen

potkettleblack said:


> I would really like some advice from some experienced Stax users please.
> 
> My dealer has the below deals:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your questions could all have been answered by searching and reading, but since there's a huge volume of posts in the several Stax threads I'll give you a bit of advice.
 - The 727 is suitable for the 007 when modded. If not, it doesn't sound very good, or so I've read. Haven't heard it. The cheapest suitable amp for the 007 would be a second-hand 717 (which I own), or a modded 727.
 - European (including UK) prices for Stax are never a good deal. Good deals can be had second hand, or via pricejapan. Still, local warranty or the chance to audition before buying can be a reason to pay full price.
 - No, the Kimik option is not worth it. You're paying more for cryo treated tubes (with questionable results), a few tube dampeners, and finally 'careful set up', which a Stax amp should have anyway and probably does. If it doesn't, you can easily do this yourself with a multimeter. See various posts about biasing Stax amplifiers if you need to know how, for example after changing the tubes.


----------



## astrostar59

gepardcv said:


> The "majority consensus" was formed by people who AB-tested the 007 and 009 side-by-side, probably plugged into the same amp. That amp almost certainly did not have separate volume controls for its outputs. The higher sensitivity of the 009 made it play louder. Louder always sounds better in AB-testing. The 009 also happens to also be somewhat brighter, which also sounds more impressive in AB-testing. Double-whammy against the 007. It would be more fair to compare the two headphones running from one source but using two separate amps, volume-matched as well as possible.
> 
> I _like_ the 009, but I prefer to listen to the 007.


 

*Can I suggest and experiment?*
 Run the same system you use for the phones through a good speaker set up (if possible). Play a track with strings, female vocal, or electric guitar on it. Play it loud, at a level the neighbours may come knocking. Sit in your listening chair for 15 minutes. What does it sound like? I thought so - bright and harsh, electrical and 'hi-fi' not like a real voice or instrument. This is what you are doing with the 009, even if you listen at 'normal' levels, they reveal EVERYTHING.
  
 It hugely matters what the source is. As we go higher up the quality levels, you get more of everything and that includes detail (information). That extra detail comes at a cost, it requires a smooth DAC which in today's world IMO is not so easy to find. Most modern DACs are DS and sound 'impressive' but not accurate, you always know it is an electrical device, not a real instrument. To me digital has gone too far away from Vinyl and even tape, it sounds clinical.
  
 The 009 and a good tube amp with a Vinyl rig will sound sound fantastic IMO, much more real, and as close as possible to the master tape (or the digital master).
  
 I recommend folk try an R-2R DAC, preferably with tubes in the PS band Line Stage, it gets much closer to how real music can sound IMO.
  
 The other thing is the 009 is technically a 50K+ speaker in reality. It requires at lest a 6K DAC and 4K amp to do it justice, why put a 1K amp and DAC in front of it, makes no sense to me. The 007 is great at 'hiding' issues. I agree, the 007 is a great and warm sounding (quite natural) headphone, but in a balanced system that is not required IMO. I find it looses too much detail and decay, it is too slow, if that makes sense. It also sounds slightly boxy, even the later (better 007As.


----------



## Music Alchemist

astrostar59 said:


> It requires at lest a 6K DAC and 4K amp to do it justice, why put a 1K amp and DAC in front of it, makes no sense to me.


 
  
 Do you feel the Yggdrasil doesn't do it justice?


----------



## bmichels

For those who did not see it before, here is an interesting interview (from 2013) of the STAX team


----------



## potkettleblack

michgelsen said:


> *Your questions could all have been answered by searching and reading, but since there's a huge volume of posts in the several Stax threads I'll give you a bit of advice.*
> - The 727 is suitable for the 007 when modded. If not, it doesn't sound very good, or so I've read. Haven't heard it. The cheapest suitable amp for the 007 would be a second-hand 717 (which I own), or a modded 727.
> - European (including UK) prices for Stax are never a good deal. Good deals can be had second hand, or via pricejapan. Still, local warranty or the chance to audition before buying can be a reason to pay full price.
> - No, the Kimik option is not worth it. You're paying more for cryo treated tubes (with questionable results), a few tube dampeners, and finally 'careful set up', which a Stax amp should have anyway and probably does. If it doesn't, you can easily do this yourself with a multimeter. See various posts about biasing Stax amplifiers if you need to know how, for example after changing the tubes.


 
 I had no intention of doing that. I will make sure you're my number one contact going forward. You and music alchemist.


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

Come on folks, do you have to be so sober and patient?  theres two new stax HPs coming out in 48 hours and hardly any sp[eculation or hopes written about them.  See Fiio x7 or Chord Mojo, to see the other extreme.
 Doesn't anyone care or look forward to their outcoming. How about some informed guessing re there sound signature, or thoughts about materials, anything please.
  
 The new STAX headphones have been discussed here. Do you not keep up with the thread? I also shared some authentic info (not guessing) pertaining to the sound and construction.
  
 Anyway, many owners of the SR-009 and/or SR-007 don't really care about the lower-end models.
  
 Yes I read your reply and hence this thread, did you read my post?  "Folks" or people is a plural.  I am asking the many who read this thread to pipe in, if they wish. It seems you have appointed yourself their spokesman and would rather this didn't happen.  Your last snobbish comment on their behalf speaks for itself.
 The L700 may be challenging the 007 range sound wise, and certainly value wise, so your remark may look even more foolish come friday.
 Anyway, if there is anyone who reads this thread, who would like to speculate on the L700 or even the L500, I for one would like to hear it.


----------



## Sorrodje

vgoghs earfrmsc said:


> like to *speculate* on the L700 or even the L500, I for one would like to hear it.


 
  
 Why do you want us to speculate. we just wait to hear it and then maybe we'll have something to say. Anything else would be useless noise. Period. 
  
 What else ?


----------



## crazychile

Speculation doesn't do me much good, but once someone has an L700 in their possession, I'd love to know how that compares to the '007 and '009. I've got a pair of Koss ESP-950s that I want to upgrade to something Stax, and the top two Stax models are kind of out of reach for now.


----------



## bearFNF

I'd suggest, if you want speculation, go to the Orpheus thread. There's plenty of it going around over there. I for one, am just going to wait for them to arrive and listen to them before making any judgment of them.


----------



## Golfnutz

vgoghs earfrmsc said:


> Come on folks, do you have to be so sober and patient?  theres two new stax HPs coming out in 48 hours and hardly any sp[eculation or hopes written about them.  See Fiio x7 or Chord Mojo, to see the other extreme.
> Doesn't anyone care or look forward to their outcoming. How about some informed guessing re there sound signature, or thoughts about materials, anything please.
> 
> The new STAX headphones have been discussed here. Do you not keep up with the thread? I also shared some authentic info (not guessing) pertaining to the sound and construction.
> ...


 
  
 Sorry buddy, but this thread is reserved for the following:
  
 Audio Note 4.1 R-2R tube kit DAC – nothing under 10k can touch it. And definitely do not post anything about D-S DACs.
 Any Solid State Stat amp, but it cannot be made by Stax. Preferably KGSShv. Don’t mention tube amps because tubes are unreliable and cause issues.
 The only HP that can be mentioned is the SR-009. Nothing else is comparable.
  
 If anything else other than the above is posted, negative comments will be written.
  
 At least this is what I’ve noticed on a daily basis for the last 6 months or so…


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

golfnutz said:


> Sorry buddy, but this thread is reserved for the following:
> 
> Audio Note 4.1 R-2R tube kit DAC – nothing under 10k can touch it. And definitely do not post anything about D-S DACs.
> Any Solid State Stat amp, but it cannot be made by Stax. Preferably KGSShv. Don’t mention tube amps because tubes are unreliable and cause issues.
> ...


 

 Yes i've noticed some as well. It's not all people though.
 Rather than me say it, let me use a post from the first page
  
 As Carl said back in 2007:
  
 Quote:


> Keeping a broad scope with regards to subject matter has served us well up to now, so feel free to discuss anything related to Stax and electrostatic/electret headphones and their amplification in general.
> 
> It seems some folks think its for TOTL HPs only.


  
  


>


----------



## Music Alchemist

vgoghs earfrmsc said:


> Yes I read your reply and hence this thread, did you read my post?  "Folks" or people is a plural.  I am asking the many who read this thread to pipe in, if they wish. It seems you have appointed yourself their spokesman and would rather this didn't happen.  Your last snobbish comment on their behalf speaks for itself. The L700 may be challenging the 007 range sound wise, and certainly value wise, so your remark may look even more foolish come friday.
> Anyway, if there is anyone who reads this thread, who would like to speculate on the L700 or even the L500, I for one would like to hear it.


 
  
 I (and others) linked to impressions of the SR-L700 written by someone who heard it right next to the SR-009. Confirmed information pertaining to its design has also been provided. I am not appointing myself as a spokesman or being snobbish; just sharing info I found in order to help people out. As for my "foolish remark", that is a simple fact. Some people are not interested in the SR-L700 and have explicitly stated as much. I was not referring to its sound in that statement, but only the fact that some people are not interested in it.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Is any silent lurker owning Lambda Nova Signature ? Got my hands on Corvettegarage's pair (I know, weird way to say it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) out of curiosity, as they are said to be the more neutral Lambda out there.
 They are on their way to my home, I have already read all the scarce reviews here and there, but maybe another owner is brave enough to pop out the woods, ignore the terribly bad S/N ratio of this thread and write some comments about them.
 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

Fair enough Music Alchemist, I wasn't on the bandwagon of criticism thats come your way lately.  I only read subsequent posts after I'd replied to yours, So I move on.


----------



## gepardcv

astrostar59 said:


> It hugely matters what the source is. As we go higher up the quality levels, you get more of everything and that includes detail (information). That extra detail comes at a cost, it requires a smooth DAC which in today's world IMO is not so easy to find. Most modern DACs are DS and sound 'impressive' but not accurate, you always know it is an electrical device, not a real instrument. To me digital has gone too far away from Vinyl and even tape, it sounds clinical.


 
  
 You might be right. Who knows how I'd feel if I lived with a top-notch DAC for a while... So if you have an MSB you'd be willing to lend me for a week, let me know. I can send you one of my KG builds as collateral. A KGST, perhaps?


----------



## gepardcv

gepardcv said:


> After Tyll's recent praise for the blu-tack Spritzer mod, I finally applied to to my (recent model) 007A. Hint to anyone attempting it: go easy on the blu-tack. It should be visible through the black plate that you take off during disassembly, but should not stick to the earpads.
> 
> The first thing I noticed is that the headphones became more prone to the Stax fart. They were nearly immune stock, and now it happens more than half the time when I adjust the headphones. Not actually sure if that's related to the filled ports or if I slightly changed the earpad spring while putting them back. Luckily, I find the 007 very comfortable, so don't need to adjust it often.
> 
> Sound: it's difficult to tell without having a stock 007A to compare it to, but I'm cautiously optimistic about the effects of the mod. The differences are subtle. I was very happy with the stock 007A sound, the mod might have opened it up a smidgen in the treble? Bass was really good before, and it's really good now.


 
  
 Replying to my own post, since this might be useful information for someone. I ended up reversing the mod. Didn't like it after using it for a while. I felt like I lost clarity in mids and treble with the ports plugged. The mod was conceived years ago, so there might be something different now about applying it to the latest 007A runs, since Stax tends to change things without telling anyone. The stock 007A sounds pretty sublime to me, and I'm glad to have it back.


----------



## Rhamnetin

I don't think I could ever bring myself to modding an SR-007.  I'm not surprised you ended up reverting it.


----------



## comzee

music alchemist said:


> The name's Double O Seven. SR-007. (Just made this.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's awesome, but having the hands in that position will effect SQ


----------



## HemiSam

As an add, strongly recommend Deezer Elite streaming service fed to the ygg via digital coax into the KGST (400v version built by headinclouds) powering the SR-007A's.  A lot of goodness going on there and a grand variety of music.  No downtime to speak of.
  
 HS


----------



## sensibus

Music Alchemist, have you thought about contacting Stax directly to see if they could use your artistic skills in their marketing campaigns?  I love your photoshop skills!
  
 Honestly, you could submit some of these to them and offer to start off pro bono, eventually when they fully appreciate your talent they may pay you with headphones and amps!


----------



## labrat




----------



## PATB

Could we please stop talking about MA? 
  
 Here's my self-portrait on what I have been building the last three months.  It is modest by Summit-Fi standards, but I am glad I followed the general advice in this thread.  SR-009 (from PJ), KGSS-HV (from the FS section), Audio Note Kit DAC 4.1 LE (from Audiogon), and a CEC TL5 Belt-drive CD transport (from Mutine).


----------



## joseph69

I just received notice from PJ that my SR-009 has been shipped! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Now…can't wait to receive the notice from HeadAmp my BHSE has been shipped!


----------



## ufospls2

patb said:


> Could we please stop talking about MA?
> 
> Here's my self-portrait on what I have been building the last three months.  It is modest by Summit-Fi standards, but I am glad I followed the general advice in this thread.  SR-009 (from PJ), KGSS-HV (from the FS section), Audio Note Kit DAC 4.1 LE (from Audiogon), and a CEC TL5 Belt-drive CD transport (from Mutine).


 
 Beautiful! Love the understated look of the KGSS-HV.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

patb said:


> Could we please stop talking about MA?
> 
> Here's my self-portrait on what I have been building the last three months.  It is modest by Summit-Fi standards, but I am glad I followed the general advice in this thread.  SR-009 (from PJ), KGSS-HV (from the FS section), Audio Note Kit DAC 4.1 LE (from Audiogon), and a CEC TL5 Belt-drive CD transport (from Mutine).


 
  
 Nothing modest about that!!  What a fantastic setup!


----------



## astrostar59

I used to use a Stax 717 with my 007s and later my 009s for a short period. It was ok, kind of entertaining, but it was never realistic or particularly right for my taste. It was still better than many headphone systems no doubt, but the 009 can scale so well, it has that much more to offer. I try to encourage folk to find that, especially if they have shelled out 5K for the 009s already....
 The 007A is damb good as well. I think it comes down to the Stax sound, it is a drug, I am hooked for sure, and I want as much of it as I can get..... unfortunately IMO that means a good front end.. damb I can't help myself. Sorry I will shut up now.
  
 Actually that reminds me, I know a guy who has a John Kenny battery DAC that costs less then 1K and sound damb good... it's those horrid mains nasties messing up our DACs.


----------



## Music Alchemist

vandyman said:


> Music Alchemist has added new life to what was a stagnant topic. Sure he posts an awful lot, but I can't say it bothers me much since he usually has something new to say (though sometimes off-topic.) What does bother me are the insults, the relentless discussion of DACs, the exaggerated importance of the source quality (read cost), and the navel gazing posts (like this one, I suppose).


 
  
 Yes, I try to at least add something when I post. I'm not _trying_ to bug anyone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I spend far too much time on Head-Fi, though...my career is partially to blame. I work from home on the computer, so it's easy to have a second life here.
  


comzee said:


> That's awesome, but having the hands in that position will effect SQ


 
  
 ahaha. True.
  


sensibus said:


> Music Alchemist, have you thought about contacting Stax directly to see if they could use your artistic skills in their marketing campaigns?  I love your photoshop skills!
> 
> Honestly, you could submit some of these to them and offer to start off pro bono, eventually when they fully appreciate your talent they may pay you with headphones and amps!


 


labrat said:


> You do understand the picture is not his?
> Just copied from some Japanese manga site.
> And the text as well as the logos too?
> I hardly see what this may offer STAX in terms of artistic superiority!


 
  
 This. haha. I didn't mean that I created the image from scratch; I just took existing images and put them all together.
  


patb said:


> Could we please stop talking about MA?


 
  
 Yeah, I'm sick of being the center of attention. I just wanna talk (and read) about STAX!
  


astrostar59 said:


> I think it comes down to the Stax sound, it is a drug, I am hooked for sure, and I want as much of it as I can get..... unfortunately IMO that means a good front end..


 
  
 I feel the same way. After I heard STAX, everything else paled in comparison. However, although I don't disagree that high-end components can significantly improve the experience, I also felt that electrostats from low-end components already sounded better than non-electrostats from high-end components.


----------



## PATB

By the way guys, don't forget that Todd the Vinyl Junkie is a Stax dealer and can get you any model you want (including the SR-L700 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  He also has deals from time to time, so it is best to call him. 
  
 Todd is not only a head-fi supporter, but is also extremely helpful when you run into a problem with your purchase.  I do not want to get into the details of what happened, but let's just say I am so glad I bought my HE1000 from him.


----------



## Jones Bob

jones bob said:


> I'll give that a try. Yamas is notorious about not answering emails. So is Stax. Maybe I'll get lucky.




Following up, Tats at Stax USA replied to my email. My SR-007 Mk2 s/n was manufactured between December 2014-January 2015.


----------



## AnakChan

Guys, I've cleaned up some posts. Please keep this ON topic - Stax. Further play nice. this thread doesn't belong to any individual, doesn't belong to any private members Stax club, etc. Be respectful to new subscribers, and likewise new subscribers be respectful to long term contributors. Last but not least, there's a a search. Please use it.


----------



## walakalulu

potkettleblack said:


> I would really like some advice from some experienced Stax users please.
> 
> My dealer has the below deals:
> 
> ...





Personally I felt the upgrade was worth it -my 009's sounded sweeter with more depth but that's just me. There is also a Synergistic Research internal fuse added.
If Stax seems the way to go be advised that a UK manufacturer is working on a new energiser for next year. Let your ears decide without preconceptions and Paul at the high end headphones will give you all the time you need. All day if needed.


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

So two new headphones about to come into the world,[no news yet] looking forward to this. I'm even thinking of names for them.


----------



## vapman

patb said:


> Could we please stop talking about MA?
> 
> Here's my self-portrait on what I have been building the last three months.  It is modest by Summit-Fi standards, but I am glad I followed the general advice in this thread.  SR-009 (from PJ), KGSS-HV (from the FS section), Audio Note Kit DAC 4.1 LE (from Audiogon), and a CEC TL5 Belt-drive CD transport (from Mutine).


 
 I like this setup. I imagine if you could hear the difference with a belt drive cd player it would be with the 009's. So, how does it sound, versus a non-belt CD transport?


----------



## PATB

vapman said:


> I like this setup. I imagine if you could hear the difference with a belt drive cd player it would be with the 009's. So, how does it sound, versus a non-belt CD transport?


 
  
 I have not done a direct A/B comparison, but I had a Tascam CD-200 in there prior to receiving the CEC and, just from casual listening and memory, can't discern an audible difference between the two.  I highly recommend the Tascam CD-200 ($229 at Amazon) if one is just looking for a reliable and quiet transport.  I really did not expect a difference because the Tascam was already sounding good in the setup.  The KGSS-HV and SR-009 sound good even from a TEAC UD-301 ($299 at Amazon, with rebate) driven by an old laptop with jRiver.
  
 The primary reason I bought the CEC was that I have always wanted to have a top loading CD player with a puck to get that fake vinyl playing experience 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  I enjoy placing the CD on the spindle, placing the puck over the CD, and closing the door; adds a little bit more fun to my listening sessions.  Unfortunately, Japan-made CEC's have always been expensive.  There is a broken CEC TL2 at Audiogon right now for $700.  However, this last May 2015, CEC released the TL5, which is made in Japan but without the superlink  (CEC proprietary DAC connection).  The NA version is around $1350 and comes with a large diameter/heavier TL1N puck (the NA distributor is Mutine of Canada).  The Japan version has a smaller puck and can be had for around $1000 USD.  I thought the pricing is reasonable, and I can see this type of product being discontinued with the popularity of streaming, so decided to indulge in one.


----------



## ufospls2

If one was to buy a SRM-323S from PJ as a cheap means of driving a 009 whilst saving for a TOTL amp, would you require a step down transformer to run it off 120V mains? I know it says 100V only on the rear, but some people say the 20v difference makes no difference and it is fine to run without a transformer, while some say the transformer is necessary. Also, does anyone here have any experience with the 323S driving the 009? It seems like it would be the cheapest decent option as a stand in whilst recovering from a 009 purchase, until being able to afford something good from the used section.


----------



## purk

ufospls2 said:


> If one was to buy a SRM-323S from PJ as a cheap means of driving a 009 whilst saving for a TOTL amp, would you require a step down transformer to run it off 120V mains? I know it says 100V only on the rear, but some people say the 20v difference makes no difference and it is fine to run without a transformer, while some say the transformer is necessary. Also, does anyone here have any experience with the 323S driving the 009? It seems like it would be the cheapest decent option as a stand in whilst recovering from a 009 purchase, until being able to afford something good from the used section.


 
 I don't think you want to do that because this could cause the bias voltage not being correct.  I hope someone more knowledgeable can chime in here.


----------



## Tinkerer

ufospls2 said:


> If one was to buy a SRM-323S from PJ as a cheap means of driving a 009 whilst saving for a TOTL amp, would you require a step down transformer to run it off 120V mains? I know it says 100V only on the rear, but some people say the 20v difference makes no difference and it is fine to run without a transformer, while some say the transformer is necessary. Also, does anyone here have any experience with the 323S driving the 009? It seems like it would be the cheapest decent option as a stand in whilst recovering from a 009 purchase, until being able to afford something good from the used section.


 

 You need the step down. Otherwise it will run hot and and you will damage the windings and insulation of the internal transformer.
  
  
 Fortunately, the internal transformer itself has the dual primary windings for 120v as well. You just need to connect them in parallel. http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/srm323s.pdf
  
 And the instructions http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/15720


----------



## astrostar59

ufospls2 said:


> If one was to buy a SRM-323S from PJ as a cheap means of driving a 009 whilst saving for a TOTL amp, would you require a step down transformer to run it off 120V mains? I know it says 100V only on the rear, but some people say the 20v difference makes no difference and it is fine to run without a transformer, while some say the transformer is necessary. Also, does anyone here have any experience with the 323S driving the 009? It seems like it would be the cheapest decent option as a stand in whilst recovering from a 009 purchase, until being able to afford something good from the used section.


 
 I would try and find a used 717 in the voltage you need, as that will sound better, in fact give you a taste of what a better amp will sound like. The 717 is the bast sounding Stax amp bar the T2 IMO.
 The 323/727 IMO are not good. I would also say using a step up transformer will have even more negative effects on the sound.


----------



## Tinkerer

> I would also say using a step up transformer will have even more negative effects on the sound.


 
  
 As someone who has used the same amp with a step down transformer and without one after rewiring, it doesn't make a lick of difference. It's like saying the transformer on the telephone pole outside your house has a negative effect on the sound. As long as it's built well and can put out the current needed then it's no problem at all.


----------



## astrostar59

tinkerer said:


> As someone who has used the same amp with a step down transformer and without one after rewiring, it doesn't make a lick of difference. It's like saying the transformer on the telephone pole outside your house has a negative effect on the sound. As long as it's built well and can put out the current needed then it's no problem at all.


 
 Unless you use a seriously well built (expensive) transformer you are going to inject extra RF and hash into the line. Regardless, if the transformer you are describing is any cost at all, it makes no sense to spend on a redundant item, why not just get a used 717 or a new 323 if you really want it? There are shed loads of used 323s on the market.....


----------



## Tinkerer

astrostar59 said:


> Unless you use a seriously well built (expensive) transformer you are going to inject extra RF and hash into the line. Regardless, if the transformer you are describing is any cost at all, it makes no sense to spend on a redundant item, why not just get a used 717 or a new 323 if you really want it? There are shed loads of used 323s on the market.....


 
  
 When you can get custom transformers for less than $100 of the grade used in much higher end amps, quality step downs for $30 or less and when mains voltages can be up to 10v off anyway, do you really think it's an audible difference. Come on now. Not with a 323s. Maybe something like a BHSE, maybe.


----------



## ufospls2

astrostar59 said:


> Unless you use a seriously well built (expensive) transformer you are going to inject extra RF and hash into the line. Regardless, if the transformer you are describing is any cost at all, it makes no sense to spend on a redundant item, why not just get a used 717 or a new 323 if you really want it? There are shed loads of used 323s on the market.....


 
 Where are these shed loads of used 323s? I can't find any that are current, nor any 717's. I am still thinking that SR-009 and a 323s from PJ might be the best and most cost effective way to get into 009 listening, until being able to afford better amplification. 
  
 As a side note, how big of a difference would one see going from a 323s to say a KGSShv. Is it a HUGE difference? Or just a subtle improvement. I have only heard the SR009 on the 727, so I don't know what I'm getting myself into. I am also worried about channel imbalance issues, but that is another story.


----------



## Rhamnetin

ufospls2 said:


> Where are these shed loads of used 323s? I can't find any that are current, nor any 717's. I am still thinking that SR-009 and a 323s from PJ might be the best and most cost effective way to get into 009 listening, until being able to afford better amplification.
> 
> As a side note, how big of a difference would one see going from a 323s to say a KGSShv. Is it a HUGE difference? Or just a subtle improvement. I have only heard the SR009 on the 727, so I don't know what I'm getting myself into. I am also worried about channel imbalance issues, but that is another story.


 
  
 Everyone says something like the KGSSHV is a huge difference compared to Stax amps, and the 323S is not close to Stax's best amp (ever made that is).  I've only heard the SR-009 with a WES and BHSE so I can't say for sure.


----------



## mulveling

ufospls2 said:


> Where are these shed loads of used 323s? I can't find any that are current, nor any 717's. I am still thinking that SR-009 and a 323s from PJ might be the best and most cost effective way to get into 009 listening, until being able to afford better amplification.
> 
> As a side note, how big of a difference would one see going from a 323s to say a KGSShv. Is it a HUGE difference? Or just a subtle improvement. I have only heard the SR009 on the 727, so I don't know what I'm getting myself into. I am also worried about channel imbalance issues, but that is another story.



It is a HUGE difference. You have no idea.


----------



## wink

ufospls2 said:


> If one was to buy a SRM-323S from PJ as a cheap means of driving a 009 whilst saving for a TOTL amp, would you require a step down transformer to run it off 120V mains? I know it says 100V only on the rear, but some people say the 20v difference makes no difference and it is fine to run without a transformer, while some say the transformer is necessary. Also, does anyone here have any experience with the 323S driving the 009? It seems like it would be the cheapest decent option as a stand in whilst recovering from a 009 purchase, until being able to afford something good from the used section.


 

 Don't chance it...  Get a transformer and avoid the tears....


----------



## uchihaitachi

ufospls2 said:


> If one was to buy a SRM-323S from PJ as a cheap means of driving a 009 whilst saving for a TOTL amp, would you require a step down transformer to run it off 120V mains? I know it says 100V only on the rear, but some people say the 20v difference makes no difference and it is fine to run without a transformer, while some say the transformer is necessary. Also, does anyone here have any experience with the 323S driving the 009? It seems like it would be the cheapest decent option as a stand in whilst recovering from a 009 purchase, until being able to afford something good from the used section.


 

 Might be worth waiting for some info on how the srm353x is?


----------



## dogrelata

A few weeks have passed since my original post and what started out as a fairly modest venture appears to be morphing into something a bit more ambitious.  I’ve started to explore the possibility of buying second hand and at the upper end of my (new) budget, around £1.5k, might just be a KGSSHV.  I appreciate that’s a big departure from where I am right now and might be seen as overkill in terms of pairing it with 25 year old Lambda Pros but, looking a year or two down the road, offers the further possibility of upgrading to an SR-007 or L700, should that turn out to be ‘interesting’.
  
 I’m guessing not all KGSSHV builders are necessarily equal in terms of quality of product.  Reading through this thread makes it clear that Mjolnir Audio is very highly regarded and tends to build with a 230V option.  I’ve seen a couple of his offerings for sale second hand but have been a bit outside my budget. 
  
 Are there any other DIY builders I could check out with confidence regarding build quality, etc, ideally with 230V option? 
  
 Thanks.


----------



## kevin gilmore

The srm323 uses a 600V part and voltages are calculated as nominal ac input voltage +10%
 running a 100V transformer on 120V would push that part beyond its ratings. Not a great idea.
  
 The srm717/727 can handle more, but gets pretty hot. Also not a great idea.
  
 rewire the transformer if you can, or get a 120V to 100V transformer.
 you can use a buck/boost 20V transformer if you know how.


----------



## ahnafakeef

I'm getting a 323S + 009 setup very soon. Could you please be kind enough to tell me which of the following transformer I might need?
  
 1. http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=100&category=12
 2. http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=99&category=17
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Music Alchemist

ahnafakeef said:


> I'm getting a 323S + 009 setup very soon. Could you please be kind enough to tell me which of the following transformer I might need?
> 
> 1. http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=100&category=12
> 2. http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=99&category=17
> ...


 
  
 You should list your country in your "location" so people can give you an answer to that question.


----------



## ahnafakeef

music alchemist said:


> You should list your country in your "location" so people can give you an answer to that question.


 
 Done.


----------



## ufospls2

kevin gilmore said:


> The srm323 uses a 600V part and voltages are calculated as nominal ac input voltage +10%
> running a 100V transformer on 120V would push that part beyond its ratings. Not a great idea.
> 
> The srm717/727 can handle more, but gets pretty hot. Also not a great idea.
> ...


 
 Cool. I will get a 120V to 100V transformer. Do you have any opinions on the srm323's sound?


----------



## thinker

We shipped your Stax L-700 Oct.24....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I will compare it with older Lambdas and SR-009


----------



## mulveling

dogrelata said:


> A few weeks have passed since my original post and what started out as a fairly modest venture appears to be morphing into something a bit more ambitious.  I’ve started to explore the possibility of buying second hand and at the upper end of my (new) budget, around £1.5k, might just be a KGSSHV.  I appreciate that’s a big departure from where I am right now and might be seen as overkill in terms of pairing it with 25 year old Lambda Pros but, looking a year or two down the road, offers the further possibility of upgrading to an SR-007 or L700, should that turn out to be ‘interesting’.
> 
> I’m guessing not all KGSSHV builders are necessarily equal in terms of quality of product.  Reading through this thread makes it clear that Mjolnir Audio is very highly regarded and tends to build with a 230V option.  I’ve seen a couple of his offerings for sale second hand but have been a bit outside my budget.
> 
> ...


 
 I borrowed a Lambda Pro for a while and enjoyed it immensely out of my favorite KGSShv (not a Mjolnir build btw, they are good builds but do tend to run at a premium). The 009 and 007 are more refined and resolving, but the Lambda Pro is just a beautiful listen. I was sad to see them go and honestly if I still had it I think it might take the #2 slot behind the 009 and ahead of the 007 Mk I.


----------



## thinker

rhamnetin said:


> Everyone says something like the KGSSHV is a huge difference compared to Stax amps, and the 323S is not close to Stax's best amp (ever made that is).  I've only heard the SR-009 with a WES and BHSE so I can't say for sure.The


 
 The 323s i actually the best sounding amp from Stax(T2 not included)) to drive SR-009 and i think the new 323X wich i ordered for my collection might be even better.If you choose amps from other brands it's not the original "Stax sound" anymore.


----------



## Rhamnetin

thinker said:


> The 323s i actually the best sounding amp from Stax(T2 not included)) to drive SR-009 and i think the new 323X wich i ordered for my collection might be even better.If you choose amps from other brands it's not the original "Stax sound" anymore.


 
  
 I'm surprised the 353X's price on Pricejapan is almost the same as the US price.  Same for the SR-L500.  I might get the 323S just to save $200, along with a step down transformer, unless the 353X is a huge improvement.


----------



## ufospls2

thinker said:


> The *323s i actually the best sounding amp* from Stax(T2 not included)) to drive SR-009 and i think the new 323X wich i ordered for my collection might be even better.If you choose amps from other brands it's not the original "Stax sound" anymore.


 
 This is what really interests me. I have only heard the SR-009 with the 727 (which was great...really great), and if the 323 is better but half the price, then wow!


----------



## purk

thinker said:


> The 323s i actually the best sounding amp from Stax(T2 not included)) to drive SR-009 and i think the new 323X wich i ordered for my collection might be even better.If you choose amps from other brands it's not the original "Stax sound" anymore.


 
 I actually think the 717 is a better choice to drive the SR009 than the 323S.  Same can be said with the SR007 as well.  The 717 has slightly darker tonality but the presentation is more refined and layered compared to the 323S.  The 323S is no doubt the more neutral of the two.


----------



## joseph69

Received my SR-009 this afternoon!
 Just waiting for the BHSE so I could use them…but they look good!


----------



## Music Alchemist

ahnafakeef said:


> I'm getting a 323S + 009 setup very soon. Could you please be kind enough to tell me which of the following transformer I might need?
> 
> 1. http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=100&category=12
> 2. http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=99&category=17
> ...


 
  
 Looks like the voltage in Bangladesh is 220V.
   


rhamnetin said:


> I'm surprised the 353X's price on Pricejapan is almost the same as the US price.  Same for the SR-L500.  I might get the 323S just to save $200, along with a step down transformer, unless the 353X is a huge improvement.


 

  
 I anticipated something like this would happen. Makes it a sexy, tempting option. (Also because I think the SRM-353X looks sexier than the SRM-323S.)
  


joseph69 said:


> Received my SR-009 this afternoon!
> Just waiting for the BHSE so I could use them…but they look good!


 
  


Spoiler: Commence electrostatic epicness!



 







Spoiler: ...Oh wait...


----------



## ufospls2

Hey all, if you have gone the Price Japan route in the past, could you check this out please. Thanks for the help!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/785661/your-price-japan-experience


----------



## arnaud

So, I had a very short time at the Fujiya festival today in Tokyo and did my ritual with the inevitable visit to Stax and chit chat with sales director Sasaki-san.

We talked a bit about the new lambda phones and I could inspect the L-700 up close. The driver is ever so slightly angled, not quite like the old sigma but certainly more than the regular lambda series. The L700 electrode has bracing similar to the SR009 and, as I understood it, using the same friction welding method. I was amazed they could keep the costs down (msrp is 130,000JPY, less than 1/3rd of the SR009). There are costs saving at other places, the gimbal / headrest are in plastic for instance.

Now onto the even bigger suprise for me: the L-700 just sounded better through the 006t than the sr009 through the 007t2! Similar staging/openess, similar highs extension but smoother/sweeter/fuller sounding. Really really really nice voicing. The 507 through the 727A sounded like a 009 gone wrong (too lightweight / trebly) in comparison. We were joking with Sasaki-san that we were entering a tough time for the SR009 and he admitted they need to work on it to raise the bar again .

I expect a lamdba, not my cup of tea, I was very very very pleasantly surprised. I don't need another phone but I will give this one another try in the future for sure.

I suspect Stax is going to do very well with this one. You might also have heard they are working on rectifying the price differential between europe and japan (probably same is happening in the us)? If so, I can only imagine Stax is going to get really busy in the coming months!

Great great time today for me .

Arnaud


----------



## Jones Bob

Wow! Great first impression Arnaud! 

PJ shipped mine last Friday. Should be at my home early next week. But I'm stuck in Shenzhen for two weeks. Life's a bitch.....


----------



## Music Alchemist

arnaud said:


> Now onto the even bigger suprise for me: the L-700 just sounded better through the 006t than the sr009 through the 007t2! Similar staging/openess, similar highs extension but smoother/sweeter/fuller sounding. Really really really nice voicing. The 507 through the 727A sounded like a 009 gone wrong (too lightweight / trebly) in comparison. We were joking with Sasaki-san that we were entering a tough time for the SR009 and he admitted they need to work on it to raise the bar again .


 
  
 So the SR-L700 really does complement the SR-009! I know some people had assumed it would merely be an inferior version of the same sound, but now, it has been shown to have the potential to sound even better! (At least with one person's preferences and on particular equipment.) For those who are planning on buying the SR-009, would you go so far as to say that the SR-L700 could serve as an alternative to the extent of forgoing the former entirely in favor of the latter? Or do you feel that the SR-009 still sounds better, even to your preferences, on the best amps? (Since many would dismiss a comparison using the aforementioned STAX amps, insisting that the SR-009 needs a TOTL amp to reach its potential.)


----------



## arnaud

It was a very short listen so I could be off the charts (has happened to me before). Having said that, there's no question the new lambda seems easier to driver than the omega 2 or even sr009 and paired really well with the 006t. 
So, if on a budget and assuming you will only go the stax amp route, from my experience today, the L-700 is certainly preferable to the SR-009.

Anakchan was saying he felt the L-700 voicing was midway between the Omega 2mk2 (darkest) and the SR009 (brightest). It might be the best effort to date from Stax to strike a balance between resolution and body and making it efficient enough to not sound underpowered by a current production Stax amp.

Btw, we briefly talked about new high end stax amp but that will be longer... Sasaki-san mentionned about the issue with discontinued parts and impossibility for them to order custom parts. They need to ensure parts for 20 years (life span of a product from launch to retirement including servicing) and it complicate things a bit for product development. Sasaki-san thought shared hope with these new high voltage transistors (like the ones used in the kgsshv carbon).

Cheers,
Arnaud


----------



## Taizo

Thank you for your first impression, Arnaud! I noticed the change in the materials for the earpiece yoke in the images that are around the internet and was wondering what that was about. 
 Now I feel kind of foolish for jumping on getting my SR-507s last summer... Perhaps I should have waited out!


----------



## purk

Thank you for your impression.


----------



## arnaud

@Taizo, you could not know about the new lamdba development. i would never have guessed they were working on this. If anything, I expected them to release a portable amp/dac update for the in ear. They are quite secretive and nobody had any clue on this, mafia members or not .


----------



## bmichels

I Will be very interested in a comparaison between the new *STAX SR-L700 **and the "king" SR-009. *


----------



## mangler

Thanks for the write-up arnaud! if the L700 really does strike a balance between the 009 and 007 it will a dream come true. Will almost certainly have to pickup a pair, but that will have to wait until the new year.

One quick question. Is there any chance you were also able to listen to them off the 353x? If so, what did you think?

Edit: ok, 1 more question. How was comfort compared to the 507? I found that my ears rubbed against the inside of the 507, so I'm hoping the angled case of the L700 will provide more space inside. Did you find that to be the case?


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

Many thanks arnaud, that is the first bit of info on the L700 sound that i've read. Any info or hearsay on the L500 by any chance?


----------



## Music Alchemist

arnaud said:


> It was a very short listen so I could be off the charts (has happened to me before). Having said that, there's no question the new lambda seems easier to driver than the omega 2 or even sr009 and paired really well with the 006t.
> So, if on a budget and assuming you will only go the stax amp route, from my experience today, the L-700 is certainly preferable to the SR-009.
> 
> Anakchan was saying he felt the L-700 voicing was midway between the Omega 2mk2 (darkest) and the SR009 (brightest). It might be the best effort to date from Stax to strike a balance between resolution and body and making it efficient enough to not sound underpowered by a current production Stax amp.


 
  
 If you had to guess, would you say that the SR-L700 would sound better (and/or more accurate) than the SR-009 if both were driven by the SRM-353X? (I still find it hard to believe that the SR-L700 would outperform the SR-009 if both were used on the same TOTL amp, but the fact that it can sound so good at a fraction of the price is exciting in itself regardless.)


----------



## Ali-Pacha

@arnaud
 Greats news ! Maybe they've foud the best balance, somewhere beetween modern Lambda dynamics and vintage Lambda midrange, and without any high-mids etch. Once that said...isn't it a Lambda Nova voicing ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Large omega drivers do need lots of power, without any consideration about sensitivity...SR-009 may have hard time in bass slam and midrange texture compared to my Lambda Signature on everything below my modded SRM-727II, so I do completely understand your feelings.
  
 BTW, it's impressive how good the basic Lambda driver design is. I know someone who did put some LNS driver in HE90 cups and find it one of the best headphones ever 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## ahnafakeef

music alchemist said:


> Looks like the voltage in Bangladesh is 220V.


 
 So which one am I going to need - CCW100W or CCW200W? I can't quite tell the difference from the specs on PJ. Thanks.


----------



## Music Alchemist

ahnafakeef said:


> So which one am I going to need - CCW100W or CCW200W? I can't quite tell the difference from the specs on PJ. Thanks.


 
  
 Well, it says "any voltage OK" on both pages, so perhaps either could work. But I'd ask PJ themselves for clarification.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Hmm... soon I will have to decide between the SR-L700 and SR-007Mk2 (the silver one from Japan).  Unless I find a sweet deal on the SR-007Mk1 that is.  Now I just need to see comparisons of the SRM-353X vs SRM-323S.
  
 - EDIT: Based on some of these early impressions I wouldn't be surprised if the SR-L700 sounds better than the SR-007 out of either of these amps, due to how hard the SR-007 is to drive.  Definitely leaning toward the L700.


----------



## Jones Bob

This is really great first news on the SR-L700. A new contender based on trickle down technology from their TOTL statement product. And at close 1/3 the cost. 

If this were Audeze, the SR-L700 would be half again more than the price of the SR-009.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

I missed the price point on the 700. What is it?


----------



## Jones Bob

US$1207 plus S/H at Price Japan.


----------



## Jones Bob

arnaud said:


> @Taizo, you could not know about the new lamdba development. i would never have guessed they were working on this. If anything, I expected them to release a portable amp/dac update for the in ear. They are quite secretive and nobody had any clue on this, mafia members or not .




The Stax Yazuka are tighter lipped.


----------



## dogrelata

mulveling said:


> I borrowed a Lambda Pro for a while and enjoyed it immensely out of my favorite KGSShv (not a Mjolnir build btw, they are good builds but do tend to run at a premium). The 009 and 007 are more refined and resolving, but the Lambda Pro is just a beautiful listen. I was sad to see them go and honestly if I still had it I think it might take the #2 slot behind the 009 and ahead of the 007 Mk I.


 

 Cheers mulveling.  I’ve been simultaneously tracking the latest posts and gradually working through back posts from earlier this year and came across similar sentiments you expressed in the summer, along with those of a couple of other members, which have suggested the Lambda Pros can sound really good (great?) with the KGSSHV, so you’ve already had some influence upon the way this venture is shaping up…
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 A Mjolnir built Mini appeared in the Sales forum a few days ago at $2,299 including shipping, pretty much £1,500, but the seller is based in Kuwait.  Import duty and VAT to get them into the UK is 31%, taking the total up to £2k.  So, yes, a £1.5k model might be a long shot but not necessarily a hopeless one.
  
 I’m not ruling out other builds either.  It’s just that I don’t have the knowledge, or experience to feel confident about pursuing those at the moment.  Plus I’m really looking for something built to a European spec, in terms of voltage, so that’s another constraining factor.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## wahsmoh

Is this the last frontier for me on Head-fi? I guess I am going to see if the upcoming Stax SL-L700 will be my last foray into expensive headphones. I have decided I'm going to stop while I'm ahead of myself and aim my sites on different headphone technologies. I have been enjoying my dynamics and planar headphones and I think this may be the opportunity I've been waiting for to buy an electrostat.
  
 Rather than continue down the long spiral of finding out that planars and dynamics all sound pretty similar just different in resolution when compared to each other. I want something to listen to that is airy and natural and I'm not looking for a "basshead" headphone, just a relaxing and natural listen. Is this the right place for me to be?


----------



## Sorrodje

arnaud said:


> Now onto the even bigger suprise for me: the L-700 just sounded better through the 006t than the sr009 through the 007t2! Similar staging/openess, similar highs extension but smoother/sweeter/fuller sounding. Really really really nice voicing. The 507 through the 727A sounded like a 009 gone wrong (too lightweight / trebly) in comparison. We were joking with Sasaki-san that we were entering a tough time for the SR009 and he admitted they need to work on it to raise the bar again .


 
  
 Seems this one and the HD800s just topped up my wish list.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Dramatic week end for my wallet.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

jones bob said:


> US$1207 plus S/H at Price Japan.


 

 with or without amp?


----------



## Rhamnetin

keithpgdrb said:


> with or without amp?


 
  
 Without.  I don't see amp bundles for the L700 yet.


----------



## Yubacore

How much do you guys reckon that proper amping is going to set one back for the new Stax SL-L700? I didn't backread very long so sorry if this has already been discussed at length.
  
 I get the impression that a well matched amp typically costs a little more than the actual headphone.


----------



## JimL11

Although I am not usually in the habit of tooting my own horn, as it turns out my two part article on a modified DIY Stax amp is coming out in the November and December issues of AudioXpress magazine.  It is called the SRX Plus, and is a modification of the Stax SRX circuit first published in the 1970s.  This is the same basic circuit that the SinglePower ES-1 and 2 tube amps were based on, except that my version is is modified to perform better.  It has relatively few parts, so is less expensive than most of the other DIY amps out there (other than the basic TubeCAD circuit, which does not perform as well), and uses no exotic parts.  There is an extended discussion on the other web site in the DIY Section, under the title SRX revisited.  I think it does a very good job of driving my SR-007 and Lambda Nova Signatures, so should be fine for driving the new Stax phones as well.


----------



## thinker

Nice amp for Stax phones, according to Malvalve it has a lot of power


----------



## Rhamnetin

yubacore said:


> How much do you guys reckon that proper amping is going to set one back for the new Stax SL-L700? I didn't backread very long so sorry if this has already been discussed at length.
> 
> I get the impression that a well matched amp typically costs a little more than the actual headphone.


 
  
 Well, someone said it sounds great out of the SRM-006ts.  I'm sure it's way easier to amp than the SR-007 and SR-009, but I also wonder how much it scales with top tier amps.


----------



## padam

For now it is more like speculation but the SR009 does quite decently on lower end Stax amps(very good on the 717/modded 727), so it is not too likely that the L700 is very different (the sensitivity looks to be the same as well). Of course it is probably best on the top-tier amps, but whether that is worth all that extra expense is a different matter.
  
 It has been a while since I've become interested in something hp-related but this is something that I will keep an eye on (if it is still standing proudly even after the hype dust has been settled)
  
 Maybe later on the 727 amp will receive a refresh as well, possibly adopting a switch for adjusting the feedback.


----------



## Music Alchemist

jones bob said:


> US$1207 plus S/H at Price Japan.


 
  
 I like how the prices fluctuate. Now it's $1,186 USD shipped to the US, 1086 EUR shipped to Europe, and 1,654 AUD shipped to Australia...or a bit more for faster shipping.
  


wahsmoh said:


> Is this the last frontier for me on Head-fi? I guess I am going to see if the upcoming Stax SL-L700 will be my last foray into expensive headphones. I have decided I'm going to stop while I'm ahead of myself and aim my sites on different headphone technologies. I have been enjoying my dynamics and planar headphones and I think this may be the opportunity I've been waiting for to buy an electrostat.
> 
> Rather than continue down the long spiral of finding out that planars and dynamics all sound pretty similar just different in resolution when compared to each other. I want something to listen to that is airy and natural and I'm not looking for a "basshead" headphone, just a relaxing and natural listen. Is this the right place for me to be?


 
  
 Yes. ^_^
  


yubacore said:


> How much do you guys reckon that proper amping is going to set one back for the new Stax SL-L700? I didn't backread very long so sorry if this has already been discussed at length.
> 
> I get the impression that a well matched amp typically costs a little more than the actual headphone.


 
  
 My experience is that you can get great sound even from the most affordable amps. In case you never saw any of my posts about this: to me, even the most affordable electrostatic systems sound better (especially in terms of transparency and realism) than the most expensive non-electrostatic systems.
  
 Here are a few examples of affordable pricing. I got a used SRM-212 for $150. It has the same circuit as the SRM-252S, which originally sold for $500 in the US and, according to the person I bought from, sounds the same as the SRM-212. This makes sense since both amps have the same specs. The SRM-323S has higher output power than the two more affordable amps and even the much more expensive SRM-006tS and SRM-007tII, was originally sold for $1,000 in the US, is now about $540 from PriceJapan.com, and can be found on the used market for $300-500. The new revision of this amp, the SRM-353X, is currently $736 on PJ and $925 from ElusiveDisc.com.
  
 Of course, it scales from there for even better sound, but Lambdas generally don't scale as much as the SR-009 and SR-007. Who knows, though...perhaps this new one will scale more than previous Lambdas. As far as specs go, the SR-L700 and SR-009 have the same impedance and sensitivity.
  
 You definitely don't have to buy an expensive amp, but it could be worth it in the long run, depending on your tastes and other factors.


----------



## Yubacore

Thanks for all these answers guys. Very informative, and good news too!


----------



## Amleth

Another one for the DIY-savvy:
http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k198919751?wr=1&iref=wlr_6
  
 What the hell is that thing? It seems to have a Stax plug on it and what look like decent parts and point to point wiring inside? Did I just miss a bargain seeing as it sold for about US$250? Or was I rightfully wary?
  
 (I actually meant to ask while the auction was still ongoing, but due to tracking too much stuff forgot about it 'til Yahoo reminded me it had ended. :/ )


----------



## catscratch

arnaud said:


> So, I had a very short time at the Fujiya festival today in Tokyo and did my ritual with the inevitable visit to Stax and chit chat with sales director Sasaki-san.
> 
> We talked a bit about the new lambda phones and I could inspect the L-700 up close. The driver is ever so slightly angled, not quite like the old sigma but certainly more than the regular lambda series. The L700 electrode has bracing similar to the SR009 and, as I understood it, using the same friction welding method. I was amazed they could keep the costs down (msrp is 130,000JPY, less than 1/3rd of the SR009). There are costs saving at other places, the gimbal / headrest are in plastic for instance.
> 
> ...




Man, all of that is very good news. The price differential across the world is really hurting their business IMO. Who wants to decide between paying an unfair surcharge vs not having a warranty? As Gabe Newell said, if you want to stop piracy, provide a superior product. If they let their regional distributors charge the same as the grey market guys, then nobody will buy grey market. And if they're at last going about addressing this, then it seems like there's an influx of cash at Stax that lets them finally start taking care of their problems. Very, very good.

Have you had a chance to hear the new 007a (the one that went back to the SZ2 serial numbers)? I find it less mellow and dull than the Mk1, with some very noticeable extra top end, and I'm wondering if this is the version you're comparing the L700 to, or the older Mk2 which was a bit woolly. Balance-wise the new 007a is pretty much spot on.


----------



## Music Alchemist

catscratch said:


> Have you had a chance to hear the new 007a (the one that went back to the SZ2 serial numbers)? I find it less mellow and dull than the Mk1, with some very noticeable extra top end, and I'm wondering if this is the version you're comparing the L700 to, or the older Mk2 which was a bit woolly. Balance-wise the new 007a is pretty much spot on.


 
  
 He compared the SR-L700 to the SR-009 and SR-507, not (any version of) the SR-007.


----------



## arnaud

Actually I put on the 007A (forgot the amp driving it) very briefly and it sounded quite dark (not what I remember from my SZ3) and totally underpowered (slow).
@anakchan has spent more time checking out the noew stax gear so I think you can trust his impressions more than mine... His issue now is probably recovering from the outings with @jude, @currawong et al lol .

Arnaud


----------



## Music Alchemist

arnaud said:


> Actually I put on the 007A (forgot the amp driving it) very briefly and it sounded quite dark (not what I remember from my SZ3) and totally underpowered (slow).
> @anakchan has spent more time checking out the noew stax gear so I think you can trust his impressions more than mine... His issue now is probably recovering from the outings with @jude, @currawong et al lol .
> 
> Arnaud


 
  
 Ah. But I just meant in the comparisons you wrote.
  
 (It seemed that he misinterpreted "007t2" as "SR-007MK2" instead of the SRM-007tII amp.)


----------



## comzee

Quick impressions update.
 I posted earlier about my sr-002 being better in the mid range than my HD800s, I now know why.
  
 When I first got my 009s, I did some A/B listening between them and my 800s, I didn't notice any amazingly crazy differences. I think this was because I didn't have time to listen to the 009s, quick A/B isn't the best etc....
  
 I shelved the 800s for a full month, and hadn't listened to them once.
 I plugged them back in, and my mind was metaphorically blown.
  
 It was like putting a blanket between my ears and the headphones. The 800s were garbled, instruments getting lost, sounds smashed together, shallow soundstage, uncontrolled bass.
 I can't even believe it, and still have reeling from the results. The 800s that I praised, sound so bad.
  
 I can only chalk this up to my WA7 amp. It just must be bad. I can't readily believe the 800s are that much worse then the 009s.
  
 It makes sense too, because I bought a kgsshv-carbon for my 009s. That amp has zero comparison between the WA7, and I'm not talking about one being a dynamic amp vs estat.
 The Carbon must be leagues ahead. From the comparisons I've read, with a comparable amp, for example this, I bet it would be a fair fight.
  
 It's funny, because I remember getting the WA7 for my 800s, and how amazing they were versus driving them off my FiiO E12. I thought it was probably 90% of what the 800s could do, guess I was wrong. Can't wait for a Minneapolis head-fi meet so I can hear the 800s on something that gives them justice.
  
 As of right now, the difference is as big, as listening to my friends HD598 vs HD800s, to the HD800s vs SR-009s. I'm not hyperbolizing that. It's literally the difference between listening to headphone, and listening to ear speakers, I guess there's a reason they're called that.


----------



## purk

comzee said:


> Quick impressions update.
> I posted earlier about my sr-002 being better in the mid range than my HD800s, I now know why.
> 
> When I first got my 009s, I did some A/B listening between them and my 800s, I didn't notice any amazingly crazy differences. I think this was because I didn't have time to listen to the 009s, quick A/B isn't the best etc....
> ...


 
 No doubt but even with the best dynamic amplifier the HD800 may still fall a little short of measuring up to the SR-009.  The 009 is just a better headphones IMO.  The HD800 still have bigger soundstage however, but the precision is better on the SR009.


----------



## Rhamnetin

The best amp I've heard the HD 800 with is the Woo Audio WA22 in balanced configuration, and it sounds great!  For a dynamic headphone.  The SR-009 paired with the BHSE still slaughters it in just about every aspect in my opinion, except for sound stage width and imaging.


----------



## n3rdling

Once you get used to hearing stats nonstop for a while, going back to a dynamic can be eye opening.


----------



## joseph69

n3rdling said:


> Once you get used to hearing stats nonstop for a while, going back to a dynamic can be eye opening.


 
 If you don't mind me asking, why do you say this and what stats are you using and what dynamics did you return to that were eye opening?
 Thanks.


----------



## Taizo

joseph69 said:


> If you don't mind me asking, why do you say this and what stats are you using and what dynamics did you return to that were eye opening?
> Thanks.


 
 I couldn't guess what n3rdling means, but personally after listening to my SR-507s for a while, going back to my Grado SR-325s for a spell can be kind of refreshing. The Grados have such a warm, lovely midrange... something about them is a somewhat more intimate with some music than my Stax's are to me... Not to say that the Stax are lacking in the mids (or in any way for that matter
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) they just feel more clinical and sterile; I'd have to do some more careful listening between the two to be more specific.


----------



## greggf

I can guess what  n3rdling means.  He means that after stats, all dynamic headphones sound broken lol.
  
 But, Taizo, I agree with you, too.  Stats can be kind of . . . .sterile.  Cold.  I want some meat back.


----------



## joseph69

taizo said:


> I couldn't guess what n3rdling means, but personally after listening to my SR-507s for a while, going back to my Grado SR-325s for a spell can be kind of refreshing. The Grados have such a warm, lovely midrange... something about them is a somewhat more intimate with some music than my Stax's are to me... Not to say that the Stax are lacking in the mids (or in any way for that matter
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


greggf said:


> I can guess what  n3rdling means.  He means that after stats, all dynamic headphones sound broken lol.
> But, Taizo, I agree with you, too.  Stats can be kind of . . . .sterile.  Cold.  I want some meat back.


 
 Thanks guys.
 Thats doesn't sound too good to me being I love the Grado sound-signature and they are much less expensive than the SR-009.
 Well, I'm waiting for a KGSSHV to arrive so I could listen for myself.


----------



## Rhamnetin

greggf said:


> But, Taizo, I agree with you, too.  Stats can be kind of . . . .sterile.  Cold.  I want some meat back.


 
  
 Or rather, Stax or just Stax Lambdas can be rather sterile.  I've never seen anyone call the Orpheus sterile.  I wouldn't call the SR-007 or SR-009 sterile, although I could see someone who is used to Audeze warmth for example call the SR-009 that.


----------



## comzee

rhamnetin said:


> Or rather, Stax or just Stax Lambdas can be rather sterile.  I've never seen anyone call the Orpheus sterile.  I wouldn't call the SR-007 or SR-009 sterile, although I could see someone who is used to Audeze warmth for example call the SR-009 that.


 
 This is key. The first few days I listened to my 009s, I thought they were more clinical and sterile then my 800s. What it actually was, is that the 009s removed the veiled sound I'd come accustomed to with my 800+wa7 setup. Even more than that, while removing the veil, it also reduced the harshness of treble.
  
 I can truly appreciate unadulterated sound, with that said, everyone has preferences. Just because a song is suppose to sound one way, doesn't mean everybody's going to like it like that.
 I believe the 009s are the closest you can get (with headphones) to getting a non-colored sound of music.
  
 If you want color in your music, that's fine. I just don't see at as an advantage over the 009s, I see it as a preference.


----------



## Rhamnetin

comzee said:


> This is key. The first few days I listened to my 009s, I thought they were more clinical and sterile then my 800s. What it actually was, is that the 009s removed the veiled sound I'd come accustomed to with my 800+wa7 setup. Even more than that, while removing the veil, it also reduced the harshness of treble.
> 
> I can truly appreciate unadulterated sound, with that said, everyone has preferences. Just because a song is suppose to sound one way, doesn't mean everybody's going to like it like that.
> I believe the 009s are the closest you can get (with headphones) to getting a non-colored sound of music.
> ...


 
  
 I agree 100%.  The SR-009 is the most technically correct and realistic sound I've heard from a headphone, but that's just not what everyone wants.  I know it's what I want though!  Speaking of sterile sounding headphones, the HD 800 on a neutral solid state amp certainly strikes me as sterile and boring.  It needs a warm tube amp to shine in my opinion.  I heard a similar veil when swapping between the HD 800 and SR-009 at an audition.  I relate the veil to transparency; the SR-009 (and even SR-007) is just so much more clear.


----------



## zolkis

I think the 009 is neutral, but not sterile.
 Sterile in my vocabulary means somewhat thinner than neutral, both in mids and bass. The HD800 can be sterile at times. The K812 is not. The 009 is not. 
 Dry for me means no extra warmth in the sound, but otherwise neutral, and may be a good thing.
 My adjective ranking about tonality and the amplitudes of Fourier transform in general (or should I say harmonic composition) is something like this:
 sterile < dry < neutral < musical < warm < dark.
  
 Ethereal vs meaty are expressing an orthogonal property that can be characterized by the density distribution of the Fourier transform components, if that makes sense, or should I say harmonic structure.
  
 Another property is time domain behavior, waterfall if you like. Dry-neutral sound tends to be also with fast decay, another good thing.
  
 It is interesting that while I give all credit to neutral sound, I like headphones slightly on the musical and fleshy side, something that probably has to do with the Fletcher-Munson curve so I am likely not alone.
  
 BTW the 009 subjectively seems to have a "lit up" midrange in the 4-6 kHz region, at least compared to most headphones (well, likely the other way around, most headphones have a dip there). If I EQ that down (for experiment, since I hate EQ because it smears things), the 009 sounds more meaty and musical. I could do that also with an earpad mod, but after all left the 009 in original form, it is perfectly voiced. I had similar experience with the AKG 601, which was a very linear and neutral performer, but it sounded dry, even sterile. It is a bit tricky since the equal loudness curves across dynamic range make it clear that no headphone can be tuned perfectly for all loudness levels. However, it is enough to be good enough here. Our brain comes to help, with personal variable compensation capabilities, and I think that is why some people prefer e.g. the 007 over the 009, despite the 007's obvious midrange dip. I for example have higher than normal sensitivity to midrange dynamics, making me sensitive to headphones which sound "lit up" like the 009.
  
 The 507 is dry and ethereal, but its midbass bump and 30 Hz bump makes it out of sterile zone. However, it sounds a bit harder in the upper mids and treble than the 007 and the 009. Tonally it is closer to the 009, but it is not neutral. It has a slight coloration in the upper mids which makes the 007 more relaxed sounding. The HD800 is both more dry and more neutral than the 507, otherwise they sound very similar, although the 507 is more ethereal.
  
 The 007 has a somewhat velvety, caramel, sepia, bloomy tone, both transparent and meaty e.g. on saxophone and wind instruments, and also on violin, more so than the dynamic headphones like Grado, HD800, or then even the 009. Funny thing that my modded 007 sound more meaty and more dynamic than my modded TH900 (down to about 30 Hz where the TH900 takes the lead), which is more meaty and more dynamic than the Grado RS1 and the HD800 at the expense of being too colored. 
 The 007 is colored when compared to the 009, but not more so than a conrad johnson tube amp vs an Audio Research tube amp, just enough to make more things sound musical.
 The 009 is unforgiving both to equipment and recording.
  
 The main quality of my modded 007 is to make instruments sound wonderfully real. I melt when I hear my 007 play the saxophone or double bass or cello or violin, and the percussion hit fast, hard, deep and clean, with great cymbal dynamics, decay and resolution. The 009 is tonally more correct, but the modded 007 feels dynamically better and also less dry and ethereal (the stock 007 IMO doesn't even play in the same league as the 009 in making instruments real). The 007 changes so much with ear pads, pad fillings and headband adjustment that I just hate it. The 009 is much more consistent, and not much to tune there. But the 007 is perfectly good for metal and electronica too, for which the 009 is a bit dry in the bass.
  
 By n3rdling's @arnaud's description, the L700 may hit a perfect balance. I am very curious to try it against my modded 007. Since I don't recommend the modded 007 to normal people (modded 009 pads too shallow to be comfortable for most people, but fortunately it is borderline with my ear lobes), it may be that the LS700 checks most musical goodies for most people. However, in general, the Lambdas are not more comfortable than my modded 007, so it comes down to sound anyway.
  
 I just wonder when the 009 update will come - perhaps next year? Stax definitely seems to know what they are doing, as things seem to go the right direction, and price didn't change.
 Will it be called the Omega 900?


----------



## Rhamnetin

zolkis said:


> I think the 009 is neutral, but not sterile.
> Sterile in my vocabulary means somewhat thinner than neutral, both in mids and bass. The HD800 can be sterile at times. The K812 is not. The 009 is not.
> Dry for me means no extra warmth in the sound, but otherwise neutral, and may be a good thing.


 
  
 This sounds right to me.


----------



## Taizo

zolkis said:


> Sterile in my vocabulary means somewhat thinner than neutral, both in mids and bass. The HD800 can be sterile at times. The K812 is not. The 009 is not.
> Dry for me means no extra warmth in the sound, but otherwise neutral, and may be a good thing.
> My adjective ranking about tonality and the amplitudes of Fourier transform in general (or should I say harmonic composition) is something like this:
> sterile < dry < neutral < musical < warm < dark.
> ...


 
 Perhaps I was incorrect in my choice of adjective. I used the word "sterile" as to mean neutral. I don't have a ranking for adjectives, I just picked the first word that came to mind. I should create a ranking as you've done for describing audio equipment.
 I'm also relatively new to the whole high end headphone thing so my interpretations are based on the smaller, (and accordingly) more far-flung sample of headphones that I've owned and auditioned. I'm probably a little out of my league to be making critical statements in this thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I do appreciate your description of the 507 as being "ethereal". I sought out the 507 over the 407, et al. based on peoples' descriptions of it as being tonally similar to the 009 ("out of the sterile zone"). To my misfortune there are no Stax dealers in my location so I was out of luck as far as an audition was concerned while I was 'on the hunt.' In the end I had to choose based on folks' reviews and descriptions online to make a decision.


----------



## Jodet

Sure would be nice if we could have a new threat dedicated to the SR-L700, 500 instead of having to wade through EVERYTHING Stax.


----------



## crazychile

jodet said:


> Sure would be nice if we could have a new threat dedicated to the SR-L700, 500 instead of having to wade through EVERYTHING Stax.


 
  
 Done.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/785949/the-stax-sr-l500-and-sr-l700-impressions-thread


----------



## Music Alchemist

joseph69 said:


> Thats doesn't sound too good to me being I love the Grado sound-signature and they are much less expensive than the SR-009.
> Well, I'm waiting for a KGSSHV to arrive so I could listen for myself.


 
  
 You've undoubtedly read my posts about how I think electrostats sound more realistic to me than other headphone types, to the point that I've lost interest in all but a few non-electrostats.
  
 The tonal balance of most Grados is much further away from neutral than other audiophile-oriented headphones, so I never gave them the time of day. I always read about some of 'em being great for rock and metal, though, so perhaps I'll try them eventually.
  
 I had a feeling you'd cave in and get another amp sooner!
  


zolkis said:


> BTW the 009 subjectively seems to have a "lit up" midrange in the 4-6 kHz region, at least compared to most headphones (well, likely the other way around, most headphones have a dip there)
> 
> By n3rdling's description, the L700 may hit a perfect balance.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's the latter.
  

  
 (The graph is mislabeled, but just use the green line as your reference.)
  
 Don't you mean arnaud's description? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If the SR-009 successor is significantly better than the original, many people (especially those who purchased the SR-009 shortly before the hypothetical update) are going to be angry. (Whereas crazy loons such as myself would be inclined to simply buy both.)
  


crazychile said:


> Done.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/785949/the-stax-sr-l500-and-sr-l700-impressions-thread


 
  
 I thought there was an unwritten rule: "Discuss STAX here." There aren't many other STAX threads, and I think that's for a reason.


----------



## zolkis

taizo said:


> Perhaps I was incorrect in my choice of adjective. I used the word "sterile" as to mean neutral. I don't have a ranking for adjectives, I just picked the first word that came to mind. I should create a ranking as you've done for describing audio equipment.
> I'm also relatively new to the whole high end headphone thing so my interpretations are based on the smaller, (and accordingly) more far-flung sample of headphones that I've owned and auditioned. I'm probably a little out of my league to be making critical statements in this thread


 
  
 Sorry I didn't mean to be corrective or paternal with these terms, and probably my terms could be further refined, and may need corrections here and there. It's true that a lot of discussions on this forum come from different usage of words and the feeling of having to chime in with some correction, or shedding some new light on things. It's business as usual, happens everywhere. Especially with music, where one's preferred genres and live musical experiences influence a lot the taste. But sooner or later usually a consensus seems to form about things, and that is good. What amazes me, a speaker guy, is the level of involvement and spark of life on these headphone forums . Speakers sound very, very different from each other, but nowhere near I see this level of discernment as on these HP forums .


----------



## joseph69

music alchemist said:


> You've undoubtedly read my posts about how I think electrostats sound more realistic to me than other headphone types, to the point that I've lost interest in all but a few non-electrostats.
> The tonal balance of most Grados is much further away from neutral than other audiophile-oriented headphones, so I never gave them the time of day. I always read about some of 'em being great for rock and metal, though, so perhaps I'll try them eventually.
> 
> I had a feeling you'd cave in and get another amp sooner!


 
 Well only time will tell how I like the stats…*I *personally haven't heard a HP that *I *prefer over Grado and I've heard/had many highly regarded HP's, but while I had them I kept reaching for my Grado's. The reason I'm getting into the stats is because I'm just looking for something different for a change, with the hope of enjoying them so much that I could down size my Grado HP's…I have too many as far as I'm concerned. "Caved in" isn't even the word! It took a little over 1-day from receiving the 009 to look for a temporary amp after saying I had no problem waiting for the BHSE and I was in no rush…yea right...I'm dying to hear the 009!!!


----------



## Music Alchemist

Spoiler: More photos of the SR-L700




 




  
 Is the housing plastic this time around? I know the SR-507 was metal.


----------



## labrat




----------



## Music Alchemist

labrat said:


> How would you know?
> Have you ever touched it?
> The housing of the SR-507 is plastics, not metal.
> The case-holder is metal.
> You have had the entry-level model , yet you throw around all your "experience" and parroting anything you find on the net, from here or anywhere!


 
  
 I would have sworn I read that it was made of metal. So the rectangular frame is plastic while the yoke (or baffle or whatever it's called) is metal?
  
 On this link:
  
 http://adairacoustic.tumblr.com/post/68477245766/one-mans-journey-through-the-stax-range-part2
  
 It says this:
  


> The other instantly noticeable change is that the grills are now made from metal as opposed to plastic.


----------



## mangler

Thanks for sharing the pics of the L700 Music Alchemist  it's been a while since I owned them, but if I recall correctly the housing of the 507 is indeed plastic.


----------



## labrat




----------



## Music Alchemist

labrat said:


> The housing of the SR-507 is injection molded plastics.
> The grills between the sound elements and your ears are some fiber reinforced , rubberized cloth; soft to touch and very transparent.


 
  
 Thanks for clearing that up. Not sure why people I talked to who used it said the housing was made of metal...or why that reviewer thought the same thing.


----------



## labrat




----------



## AnakChan

arnaud said:


> Actually I put on the 007A (forgot the amp driving it) very briefly and it sounded quite dark (not what I remember from my SZ3) and totally underpowered (slow).
> @anakchan has spent more time checking out the noew stax gear so I think you can trust his impressions more than mine... His issue now is probably recovering from the outings with @jude, @currawong et al lol .
> 
> Arnaud


 
  
 I'm gonna have to echo 's impressions. Tonally to me they felt more balanced than the 009s & 007s granted that each of those headphones were paired with different amps - and the way they layed out the cables too tucking it under the amp, it wasn't as simple as just unplugging it and plugging it into your desired amp and each setup rig had a seat, so it would have been intrusive to the listener next to you.
  

  
 Anyway, back to the to the L700, as Arnaud had expressed about the highs, I'd like to further add on that I personally felt it had a deeper extension to the bass to and (to me) tighter than my 007Mk1' at least. To me tonally it fit between the 009s and 007s. I've never picked up a Lambda before therefore I can't say if this is the typical Lambda signature or not but I like it quite a lot.

 If there was anything i'd nitpick, sonically my sentiments is the SR-series still has a slight edge over the L700 in terms of resolution but I'd probably need to be able to listen in a more controlled environment to be sure (like in the comfort of my home with my other rig). Also another nitpick would be the housing, it did feel rather plasticky & somewhat cheap. But I have no complaints about the weight of the headphone naturally.


----------



## Music Alchemist

anakchan said:


> I'm gonna have to echo 's impressions. Tonally to me they felt more balanced than the 009s & 007s granted that each of those headphones were paired with different amps - and the way they layed out the cables too tucking it under the amp, it wasn't as simple as just unplugging it and plugging it into your desired amp and each setup rig had a seat, so it would have been intrusive to the listener next to you.
> 
> Anyway, back to the to the L700, as Arnaud had expressed about the highs, I'd like to further add on that I personally felt it had a deeper extension to the bass to and (to me) tighter than my 007Mk1' at least. To me tonally it fit between the 009s and 007s. I've never picked up a Lambda before therefore I can't say if this is the typical Lambda signature or not but I like it quite a lot.
> 
> If there was anything i'd nitpick, sonically my sentiments is the SR-series still has a slight edge over the L700 in terms of resolution but I'd probably need to be able to listen in a more controlled environment to be sure (like in the comfort of my home with my other rig). Also another nitpick would be the housing, it did feel rather plasticky & somewhat cheap. But I have no complaints about the weight of the headphone naturally.


 
  
 So although the SR-L700 sounded more balanced to you than the SR-009 and SR-007 from those particular STAX amps, would you say that the SR-L700 from the STAX amp(s) sounded better to you in any way than the SR-009 and SR-007 from the best amps? (I don't recall which ones you've used.) As far as tonal balance goes, this isn't as much of an issue for me, due to the fact that a parametric equalizer will do more to achieve an accurate frequency response than anything else. I prefer to focus on aspects you can't tweak with EQ.


----------



## AnakChan

music alchemist said:


> So although the SR-L700 sounded more balanced to you than the SR-009 and SR-007 from those particular STAX amps, would you say that the SR-L700 from the STAX amp(s) sounded better to you in any way than the SR-009 and SR-007 from the best amps? (I don't recall which ones you've used.) As far as tonal balance goes, this isn't as much of an issue for me, due to the fact that a parametric equalizer will do more to achieve an accurate frequency response than anything else. I prefer to focus on aspects you can't tweak with EQ.


 
  
 I wouldn't dare speculate on how the L700 would sound on amps I'm familiar with. (e.g. my opinions vary most of the folks that post here - I think the SR-009 is a real sloth driven by the SRM-007tA, and much better on the SRM-727A. Likewise, I feel the/DonnyHifi's KGST decently nice over the SRM-727a but not as glorifying as how I've read about it on the forums here & elsewhere. I however do agree the/Arnaud's XF4 driven BHSE stands on its own). I have an Electra with XF2 on the output stage (Tung Sol & Electro Harmonix 6SN7s in the 2nd & 1st stages respectively).
  
 Personally, I don't EQ.


----------



## Music Alchemist

anakchan said:


> I wouldn't dare speculate on how the L700 would sound on amps I'm familiar with. (e.g. my opinions vary most of the folks that post here - I think the SR-009 is a real sloth driven by the SRM-007tA, and much better on the SRM-727A. Likewise, I feel the/DonnyHifi's KGST decently nice over the SRM-727a but not as glorifying as how I've read about it on the forums here & elsewhere. I however do agree the/Arnaud's XF4 driven BHSE stands on its own). I have an Electra with XF2 on the output stage (Tung Sol & Electro Harmonix 6SN7s in the 2nd & 1st stages respectively).


 
  
 That's not what I meant. I mean, based on your memory, would you say that the SR-009 driven from the best amps sounds better than the SR-L700 from the STAX amp? Or does the SR-L700 do certain things better? Just trying to get a better feel of your experiences.


----------



## Jones Bob

Let's slow down the hype train, please.


----------



## AnakChan

music alchemist said:


> That's not what I meant. I mean, based on your memory, would you say that the SR-009 driven from the best amps sounds better than the SR-L700 from the STAX amp? Or does the SR-L700 do certain things better? Just trying to get a better feel of your experiences.


 

 I'm rather conservative when it comes to "based on memory" which to me would lead to "speculation" and as mentioned before, I wouldn't dare speculate.
  
 If I get a loaner/the L700 at home one fine day, I'd be more than happy to provide a comparison thoughts the same setup in a more controlled environment.


----------



## Jodet

FYI, Elusivedisc.com is having a 12% off everything sale till Halloween.   I called and was told the new Stax stuff is included.  
  
 Time to pre-order that SR-L700 and 353X?


----------



## kugino

jodet said:


> FYI, Elusivedisc.com is having a 12% off everything sale till Halloween.   I called and was told the new Stax stuff is included.
> 
> Time to pre-order that SR-L700 and 353X?


do they have a price for the l700?


----------



## Jodet

kugino said:


> do they have a price for the l700?


 
  
 $1399.   Amp is $950.  
  
 Very tempting.


----------



## Earspeakers

Got my SR-L700 and am listening. Interesting, quite a different Lambda. More room in the earpieces, no more ear pressing against the grill I think, yay! Also oddly I can't find any markings for L-R, I have too use the dashed line on the cord to determine. Maybe it's there somewhere but I can't find it. 
  
 Initial impressions? SR-009 crossed with a Lambda. Three dimensional holographic presentation a-la 009, yet with the Lambda presentation. More L-R distance and seperation than with any Lambda I've heard (i.e. all of them). Also doesn't seem to have the energy of the 009 which I've not gotten used to. More like a traditional Lambda in this respect. 
  
 Good stuff!


----------



## potkettleblack

jodet said:


> $1399.   Amp is $950.
> 
> Very tempting.


 

 Can you provide a link please? I can't find it on the Stax site.


----------



## Jodet

potkettleblack said:


> Can you provide a link please? I can't find it on the Stax site.


 
  
  
http://audiophile.elusivedisc.com/search?w=stax&x=0&y=0


----------



## Music Alchemist

The new stuff is live! (But only available for pre-order until next month.)
  
 SR-L700: $1,400
 https://www.staxusa.com/earspeaker/stax-sr-l700.html
  
 SR-L500: $700
 https://www.staxusa.com/earspeaker/stax-sr-l500.html
  
 SRM-353X: $925
 https://www.staxusa.com/driver/stax-srm-353x.html
  
 SRS-5100 (SR-L500 + SRM-353X): $1,650
 https://www.staxusa.com/system/stax-srs-5100.html
  
 Not _too_ much higher than PriceJapan, but I'd still go with PJ, personally.


----------



## PATB

earspeakers said:


> Got my SR-L700 and am listening. Interesting, quite a different Lambda. More room in the earpieces, no more ear pressing against the grill I think, yay! Also oddly I can't find any markings for L-R, I have too use the dashed line on the cord to determine. Maybe it's there somewhere but I can't find it.
> 
> Initial impressions? SR-009 crossed with a Lambda. Three dimensional holographic presentation a-la 009, yet with the Lambda presentation. More L-R distance and seperation than with any Lambda I've heard (i.e. all of them). Also doesn't seem to have the energy of the 009 which I've not gotten used to. More like a traditional Lambda in this respect.
> 
> Good stuff!


 
  
 How is the comfort compared to the SR-009?  For example, does the SR-L700 have more clamping force, or are the pads too thin that your ears touch the driver?  Thanks!


----------



## Rhamnetin

earspeakers said:


> Initial impressions? SR-009 crossed with a Lambda. Three dimensional holographic presentation a-la 009, yet with the Lambda presentation. More L-R distance and seperation than with any Lambda I've heard (i.e. all of them). Also doesn't seem to have the energy of the 009 which I've not gotten used to. More like a traditional Lambda in this respect.
> 
> Good stuff!


 
  
 Yep, this is my next headphone.  Well... not counting the one I'm getting tomorrow.  I'm going to go with PriceJapan, since I'd still save a few hundred bucks.


----------



## Earspeakers

patb said:


> How is the comfort compared to the SR-009?  For example, does the SR-L700 have more clamping force, or are the pads too thin that your ears touch the driver?  Thanks!


 

 Less clamping, more room, more wiggle room. The 009 kind of suction onto your ears and are a perfect fit (but they feel _first class_), these are more loosey-goosey. Which you prefer is personal, I like both for different reasons. I like the 009 initially, but long term listening it starts to feel a little constrictive. Conversely these don't feel as comfortable when I first put them on but seem to work better after an hour or two. 
  
 As I said above unlike every other Lambda I've tried, these are the first ones where my ear lobes do _not_ touch the driver grills. Overall there seems to be more room. The plastic is quite different too, much like the 207 plastic, no more Stax fart. 
  
 So far listening on a KGST + ED-1, classical music. The sound stage is _much_ wider/bigger than any Lambda. I have a 307, but never felt the need to get a 507 since the driver is the same AFAIK. So when this was introduced as a "Professional Lambda" I jumped on it.


----------



## Music Alchemist

earspeakers said:


> The plastic is quite different too, much like the 207 plastic, no more Stax fart.


 
  
 Aside from the SR-007 and SR-009, which models have the fart? I didn't notice it with the SR-207.


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> Aside from the SR-007 and SR-009, which models have the fart? I didn't notice it with the SR-207.


 
  
 I didn't notice any with the SR-007Mk1 and SR-009, although I've been told that modded SR-007Mk2s have it.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Lambda may fart with good seal. Especially with soft leather pads. SR-X/mk3 with new pads do fart. Sometimes SR-3/5 do fart.
 No fart on Gamma from my experience, and obviously no fart on Sigma.

 Ali


----------



## labrat




----------



## Earspeakers

Maybe I misunderstood what people generally mean by the Stax Fart. I don't get it from ear pad seals but plastic which squeaks and grates. I have a NOS pair of 404 Sigs which do it horribly. Just the type of old plastic they used, before it wears in it makes all sorts of noises. 
  
 Anyhow trying it on a ED-1/SRM-600 now. This is my favorite of the Stax amps, the best performer IMO. This is really a _crazy_ good headphone, if finances were tight I wouldn't hesitate at all to 'settle' with this guy, because it really wouldn't be settling at all. I'm going by memory on the 009, and haven't gone head-to-head (which I will do one of these days), but I believe I do prefer this over the 009.   The immediacy and presence is remarkable, certainly among the best if not the best of the Stax lineup. Accuracy is stellar, as is the 009 type '3D holographic presentation'. If anything however I am noting that the stereo separation seems to be a bit much, with the 009 at least it's closer together and more integrated. 
  
 I _have_ to do a head-to-head with a old Lambda Sig, the one with the thinnest diaphragm, I bet these equal it on detail without the Stax 'shout' (which I don't hear anyhow).


----------



## Music Alchemist

earspeakers said:


> Maybe I misunderstood what people generally mean by the Stax Fart. I don't get it from ear pad seals but plastic which squeaks and grates. I have a NOS pair of 404 Sigs which do it horribly. Just the type of old plastic they used, before it wears in it makes all sorts of noises.
> 
> Anyhow trying it on a ED-1/SRM-600 now. This is my favorite of the Stax amps, the best performer IMO. This is really a _crazy_ good headphone, if finances were tight I wouldn't hesitate at all to 'settle' with this guy, because it really wouldn't be settling at all. I'm going by memory on the 009, and haven't gone head-to-head (which I will do one of these days), but I believe I do prefer this over the 009.   The immediacy and presence is remarkable, certainly among the best if not the best of the Stax lineup. Accuracy is stellar, as is the 009 type '3D holographic presentation'. If anything however I am noting that the stereo separation seems to be a bit much, with the 009 at least it's closer together and more integrated.
> 
> I _have_ to do a head-to-head with a old Lambda Sig, the one with the thinnest diaphragm, I bet these equal it on detail without the Stax 'shout' (which I don't hear anyhow).


 
  
 Ah, yes, the SR-207 and SR-30 squeaked a bit, if I recall, but that's different from the "fart" involving the pads, air, suction, etc.
  
 Impressive! And from what I've read from your posts, you build some of the best electrostat amp designs for yourself. Last time I checked, you were even trying to build a Nanotube! So from memory, do you prefer the SR-L700 from the STAX amp over the SR-009 from the much more expensive amps? Does it really sound more accurate to you overall? If so, this is great news for those who don't want to spend big bucks. Any insights on how the SR-L700 compares to the SR-007?
  


earspeakers said:


> Also oddly I can't find any markings for L-R, I have too use the dashed line on the cord to determine. Maybe it's there somewhere but I can't find it.


 

 Oh. Forgot to mention that the L and R are right above the rectangular black part above the STAX logo.


----------



## Music Alchemist

For those who plan on adding the new STAX to their lists, publishing reviews, and so on, I created product pages in the Head Gear section. Some interesting technical info is provided as well.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/stax-sr-l700
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/stax-sr-l500
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/stax-srm-353x


----------



## Earspeakers

music alchemist said:


> Ah, yes, the SR-207 and SR-30 squeaked a bit, if I recall, but that's different from the "fart" involving the pads, air, suction, etc.
> 
> Impressive! And from what I've read from your posts, you build some of the best electrostat amp designs for yourself. Last time I checked, you were even trying to build a Nanotube!


 
  
 Pretty much everything
  


> So from memory, do you prefer the SR-L700 from the STAX amp over the SR-009 from the much more expensive amps?


 
  
 Don't know what your asking. On a Stax amp the SQ leaps significantly. It seems to show that there's more SQ in the amp (and DAC) chain to be pulled out, proving yet again the transducer has the greatest effect on the SQ. Also could mean that it's easier to drive, so Stax amps sound significantly better. I haven't tested with all my Stax amps yet however. 
  


> Does it really sound more accurate to you overall?


 
  
 Initially it sounds like the most accurate Stax headphone, and very smooth too. Possibly a _little_ shy in the lower freqs than other Stax, but take that with a grain of salt at this point as I need more listening. 
  


> Any insights on how the SR-L700 compares to the SR-007?


 
  
 I think it spanks it, but I'm not a huge fan of the 007mk1/mk2. Even with a Pawel 007 equalizer. However again the one downside that keeps coming forward is that the sound stage is really a bit too side. Right recorded instruments are fully to my right, left fully to my left. Other Stax bring them together and forward. The 009 really does this well, making it sound like you're the conductor. These are more like ... something else. 
  
 Of course this is with an ED-1 pro, A/B that out and the instruments come together a bit. Trying with a ED-1 Signature - ah that is better. OK this seems to respond more strongly to which ED-1 unlike the other Stax, the Signature was meant for modern Staxen. 
  


> Oh. Forgot to mention that the L and R are right above the rectangular black part above the STAX logo.


 
  
 Hard to find ... on the headband loop, center part, just above the rectangular part just above the harness. Faint white letters - thanks.


----------



## lojay

I have recently joined a very exclusive club - the DIY T2 club that is. 
  
 It is a magnificent pairing with the SR-009, especially for vocals and more intimate types of recordings. 
  
 I must say, it is not the last word on clarity and precision. The HD800s (modded) and the EC 445 are superior in that regard. But for almost any other criteria, the DIY T2 / SR-009 reigns supreme. 
  
*For those who own a T2*: what is your favourite headphone with the T2?


----------



## negura

lojay said:


> I have recently joined a very exclusive club - the DIY T2 club that is.
> 
> It is a magnificent pairing with the SR-009, especially for vocals and more intimate types of recordings.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What are your thoughts in regards to resolution comparatively?


----------



## astrostar59

lojay said:


> I have recently joined a very exclusive club - the DIY T2 club that is.
> 
> It is a magnificent pairing with the SR-009, especially for vocals and more intimate types of recordings.
> 
> ...


 

 Dude, congraduations. 
  
 I find this interesting. A few 'ideas'. What DAC are you using. What EL34 types (NOS?). Not sure what the input tubes are.
 Have you burned it in, all those capacitors in the PS may take 4 weeks+.
 Is it fed clean mains? I am experimenting with this now, and have found a cleaner mains supply lifts the transparency of a Stat amp and my DAC, and still keeps it smooth (in fact smoother).
  
 Hope this helps lojay. Regardless, we need more active T2 users on here, this is all good.


----------



## lojay

negura said:


> What are your thoughts in regards to resolution comparatively?




Raz great to know that my 1,000 post is in reply to you. Resolution is a fuzzy word. I think the SR009 does micro details noticeably better, such as the inner texture and surrounding air or reverberations of voices and instruments. Voices have better inner definition and far more natural inflections. This is due to its superior transient response. Distance or front to back layering between sonic cues is also rendered more accurately. 

The HD800 with the EC445 is better at macro details, given a blacker background and more precise imaging or definition of spatial cues: This is most evident with mass strings or complex rock arrangements. The SR009 will tend to harmonise and lump together mass strings. The HD800 will emphasise the contours of instruments, even when performing in unison, much more precisely.

Because of their different strengths, I feel that the SR009 is better suited towards pop and vocals, jazz music, solos, quartets and live music in more intimate settings; the HD800 is better suited for orchestral works, choir music and aggressive types of music like dance music or metal.


----------



## lojay

astrostar59 said:


> Dude, congraduations.
> 
> I find this interesting. A few 'ideas'. What DAC are you using. What EL34 types (NOS?). Not sure what the input tubes are.
> Have you burned it in, all those capacitors in the PS may take 4 weeks+.
> ...




Hi Astrostar

I am using the MSB Analog with a custom PSU upgrade. It is fed by a SoTM server with AES outputs. This source and DAC is a good match for the SR009 tonally. I might get a Quad USB like Negura at some stage.

My power conditioning is extensive and probably extreme overkill. I use an independent power line to my room, through a Furutech GTX-D specialised power outlet. That in turn is fed through a Shunyata Triton V1 power conditioner into a Shunyata Sigma analog power cable into the DIYT2. 

The EL34s are stock Russian Mullard reissues. Am aiming to upgrade those soon. The driver tubes are real NOS Telefunken E88CC quads.

I think the DIYer who built this for me (I better not disclose who) has put about a week or two of burn in. I have just added a couple of hours more.

I am looking forward to receiving my EC Studio with the modded HE6/ HD800 for comparison purposes. Fun and exciting times!


----------



## theboch

lojay said:


> The HD800 with the EC445 is better at macro details, given a *blacker background* and more precise imaging or definition of spatial cues: This is most evident with mass strings or complex rock arrangements. The SR009 will tend to harmonise and lump together mass strings. The HD800 will emphasise the contours of instruments, even when performing in unison, much more precisely.


 
  
 What do you mean by a blacker background? Do you speak of noise when "no signal" is on the input? I can crank up the volume to "deadly" levels on the BHSE with the SR-009 and get not a little bit of "noise". It just is still dead silent. No noise or any sound.
  
 If you do not experience the same there might be something wrong somewhere in your chain which generates noise.
  
 I mean how can something be *blacker than black*?


----------



## mulveling

Well done lojay, what a rig (or rather, plural) you've got there!! DIY T2 w/ 009 ranks #1 as my ultimate headphone experience, and on par with great speaker rigs in terms of overall enjoyment (and superior in full-spectrum resolution, especially bass). And that, without a DAC as good as you've got there (burning in a new Yggy, but your MSB Analog looks so tasty). The one I heard ran vintage Mullard EL-34, so that's possibly relevant to the resultant sound quality (not sure which 6922, actually). From what I've heard in speaker amps, the warm-as-hell but still extended and extremely 3D-sounding Mullard EL34 seems like it would be a fabulous match with a 009.
  
 I'm not even gonna ask how you scored that DIY T2, because it will inevitably make me feel sad about my life


----------



## lojay

theboch said:


> What do you mean by a blacker background? Do you speak of noise when "no signal" is on the input? I can crank up the volume to "deadly" levels on the BHSE with the SR-009 and get not a little bit of "noise". It just is still dead silent. No noise or any sound.
> 
> If you do not experience the same there might be something wrong somewhere in your chain which generates noise.
> 
> I mean how can something be *blacker than black*?


 It's not background noise that one can hear when no music is playing, but rather the contrast between the natural noise floor in a recording with the music. There is less contrast with the SR009 than the HD800. The SR009 is fuzzier around the edges. That's what I understand most audiophiles to mean by referring to a blacker background.

I'm quite certain that my setup does not generate noise as you can see from my response to Astrostar.


----------



## theboch

lojay said:


> It's not background noise that one can hear when no music is playing, but rather the contrast between the natural noise floor in a recording with the music. There is less contrast with the SR009 than the HD800. The SR009 is fuzzier around the edges. That's what I understand most audiophiles to mean by referring to a blacker background.
> 
> I'm quite certain that my setup does not generate noise as you can see from my response to Astrostar.


 
  
 Ok, then we are speaking of the same. I just was not completely sure.


----------



## lojay

mulveling said:


> Well done lojay, what a rig (or rather, plural) you've got there!! DIY T2 w/ 009 ranks #1 as my ultimate headphone experience, and on par with great speaker rigs in terms of overall enjoyment (and superior in full-spectrum resolution, especially bass). And that, without a DAC as good as you've got there (burning in a new Yggy, but your MSB Analog looks so tasty). The one I heard ran vintage Mullard EL-34, so that's possibly relevant to the resultant sound quality (not sure which 6922, actually). From what I've heard in speaker amps, the warm-as-hell but still extended and extremely 3D-sounding Mullard EL34 seems like it would be a fabulous match with a 009.
> 
> I'm not even gonna ask how you scored that DIY T2, because it will inevitably make me feel sad about my life


 Thanks let's just say I'm a very lucky man! It took a while to build but it is made very professionally.

Spot on about the bass. I must say the bass resolution is awe inspiring. Never have I heard such impactful but yet detailed bass with such natural decay. It makes the 009's bass on the KGSSHV sound rather "one-note" like. I can even hear the air surrounding the bass, and the resonance felt by the instrument.


----------



## Music Alchemist

earspeakers said:


> Pretty much everything
> Don't know what your asking. On a Stax amp the SQ leaps significantly. It seems to show that there's more SQ in the amp (and DAC) chain to be pulled out, proving yet again the transducer has the greatest effect on the SQ. Also could mean that it's easier to drive, so Stax amps sound significantly better. I haven't tested with all my Stax amps yet however.


 
  
 Thanks for going to the trouble of discussing this with me.
  
 Looks like there's a communication barrier for the moment, so I'll try elaborating.
  
 I mean, you've heard all these top-of-the-line aftermarket/DIY amps with the SR-009 and other headphones. So far, your published impressions of the SR-L700 have been from STAX amps, not aftermarket/DIY amps. But now I'm even more confused. When you talk about the sound quality improving on STAX amps, what are you referring to specifically? Are you just saying that, when using the same STAX amp, switching from the SR-009 to the SR-L700 results in an increase in sound quality? Because that's not what I'm most interested in. I meant, when you compare the sound of the SR-L700 driven by the STAX amp(s) to the sound of the SR-009 driven by the best amps out there, does the SR-L700 still sound more accurate (again, only from a STAX amp) than the SR-009 (again, using the best amps you've heard, and from memory, since you haven't been able to do a direct comparison) to you? I'm very impressed how people who have lots of experience listening to the SR-009 on really high-end systems are liking the SR-L700 so much, and even more surprised how many like it more than the SR-009. But so many spectacular things have been said about the SR-009 + [insert TOTL amp here] that I feel the need to inquire further, in case I'm missing something. (I do know direct comparisons are ideal, though.)
  


> I think it spanks it, but I'm not a huge fan of the 007mk1/mk2.


 
  
 Well, I was looking for a more in-depth description of the differences in sound between the SR-L700 and SR-007; not merely the fact that you prefer one over the other. But thanks anyway. Although sound is most important to me and I don't dislike the looks of the SR-L700 per se, the SR-007MK2 is by far my favorite headphone in terms of aesthetics. It speaks to my soul in a way that no Lambda can. hehe
  


> Hard to find ... on the headband loop, center part, just above the rectangular part just above the harness. Faint white letters - thanks.


 
  
 Yeah, it's on the same place on the headband as the other click-stop headbands.
  


lojay said:


> I have recently joined a very exclusive club - the DIY T2 club that is.
> 
> It is a magnificent pairing with the SR-009, especially for vocals and more intimate types of recordings.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Jealous!!
  
 Care to post some amp porn tasteful photos of your DIY T2?
  
 I understand that you want to keep certain details secret, such as the builder, but would you be willing to reveal how much it cost and how long it took to build?
  
 This is one of the most desirable electrostatic amps, and according to some people, it's even harder, longer, and more expensive to get one nowadays. I tracked down a list of DIY T2 owners and was planning on networking with them once I'm ready for one. One guy told me only a few people in the world would be able to build it now. I do know another guy who is building one for himself. It's taking him years, but he's lazy. haha
  


lojay said:


> Raz great to know that my 1,000 post is in reply to you. Resolution is a fuzzy word. I think the SR009 does micro details noticeably better, such as the inner texture and surrounding air or reverberations of voices and instruments. Voices have better inner definition and far more natural inflections. This is due to its superior transient response. Distance or front to back layering between sonic cues is also rendered more accurately.
> 
> The HD800 with the EC445 is better at macro details, given a blacker background and more precise imaging or definition of spatial cues: This is most evident with mass strings or complex rock arrangements. The SR009 will tend to harmonise and lump together mass strings. The HD800 will emphasise the contours of instruments, even when performing in unison, much more precisely.
> 
> Because of their different strengths, I feel that the SR009 is better suited towards pop and vocals, jazz music, solos, quartets and live music in more intimate settings; the HD800 is better suited for orchestral works, choir music and aggressive types of music like dance music or metal.


 
  
 Can you go into more detail about what you dislike about metal with the SR-009? (Although I listen to nearly everything, I listen to a lot of metal. I adored the SR-207 and SR-30 with all genres, including metal, and had serious problems with the HD 800...though, as covered earlier, this was likely due to using a stock HD 800 on solid-state amps and DACs. I bet the new HD 800S will be more pleasing in stock form, since they mentioned that the peakiness in the frequency response has been improved upon. But since I've lost interest in non-electrostats for the most part, I'm not sure whether I would ever bother building dynamic and planar magnetic summit-fi systems just for the sake of certain aspects of sound.)


----------



## JeffA

Stax fans,
 I am interested in the SR-L700 as an introduction to electrostatic headphones. I currently have a Senn HD800 rig. Is the Woo Wee converter a viable solution to amplification, or to get the true Stax experience is it necessary to dive all in on a dedicated Stax amp?


----------



## Rhamnetin

jeffa said:


> Stax fans,
> I am interested in the SR-L700 as an introduction to electrostatic headphones. I currently have a Senn HD800 rig. Is the Woo Wee converter a viable solution to amplification, or to get the true Stax experience is it necessary to dive all in on a dedicated Stax amp?


 
  
 The WEE is not an amp, it's an energizer.  It needs to be connected to a power amp.  There are other energizers too, I don't know how they compare to decent electrostatic headphone amplifiers though.  There are also much better amps than ones by Stax.


----------



## JeffA

rhamnetin said:


> The WEE is not an amp, it's an energizer.  It needs to be connected to a power amp.  There are other energizers too, I don't know how they compare to decent electrostatic headphone amplifiers though.  There are also much better amps than ones by Stax.


 

 Thank you for the quick reply. Let me be more clear. I have amps for my HD800 (grace m920 and DNA Sonnet 2). The question is whether a Wee (or some other energizer) combined with my HD800 amps is a decent combination for a Stax headphone, or whether it is much better to go with a dedicated electrostatic amplifier. I am aware that Headamp makes great (and very expensive) electrostatic amplifiers. Not aware of others that make them at lower price points, though. I will do some searching.


----------



## preproman

lojay said:


> I have recently joined a very exclusive club - the DIY T2 club that is.
> 
> It is a magnificent pairing with the SR-009, especially for vocals and more intimate types of recordings.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats Jason.   Show off some of those pictures.


----------



## Rhamnetin

jeffa said:


> Thank you for the quick reply. Let me be more clear. I have amps for my HD800 (grace m920 and DNA Sonnet 2). The question is whether a Wee (or some other energizer) combined with my HD800 amps is a decent combination for a Stax headphone, or whether it is much better to go with a dedicated electrostatic amplifier. I am aware that Headamp makes great (and very expensive) electrostatic amplifiers. Not aware of others that make them at lower price points, though. I will do some searching.


 
  
 Well, you have two headphone amps.  Energizers like the WEE need to be connected to a speaker power amp.  See the speaker taps in this picture:
  

  
 So you're probably better off getting a dedicated electrostatic headphone amplifier, unless you have some good power amps lying around, but then I don't know how an energizer + good power amp compares to various electrostatic headphone amps.
  
 You might want to look around for a used KGSS amp from a reputable seller.  It's one of the more popular starter amps, being thought of as a step up over Stax without approaching the price of many other amps.


----------



## Music Alchemist

jeffa said:


> I am aware that Headamp makes great (and very expensive) electrostatic amplifiers. Not aware of others that make them at lower price points, though. I will do some searching.


 
  
 I've read bad things about the WEE. You can certainly use it, but the price of it plus a decent speaker amp could be more than an entry-level electrostatic headphone amp.
  
 Here are some links to check out. Of course, conduct due diligence before making a decision.
  
 https://www.staxusa.com/driver
 http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_result_goods.php?in_category=&in_maker=25
 http://www.cavalliaudio.com/index.php?p=product_details&pId=4
 http://www.mjolnir-audio.com/products
  
 The Kevin Gilmore designs (BHSE, KGSSHV, DIY T2, Nanotube, etc.) are generally held in the highest regard.


----------



## preproman

lojay said:


> Raz great to know that my 1,000 post is in reply to you. Resolution is a fuzzy word. I think the SR009 does micro details noticeably better, such as the inner texture and surrounding air or reverberations of voices and instruments. Voices have better inner definition and far more natural inflections. This is due to its superior transient response. Distance or front to back layering between sonic cues is also rendered more accurately.
> 
> The HD800 with the EC445 is better at macro details, given a blacker background and *more precise imaging or definition of spatial cues:* This is most evident with mass strings or complex rock arrangements. The SR009 will tend to harmonise and lump together mass strings. The HD800 will emphasise the contours of instruments, even when performing in unison, much more precisely.
> 
> Because of their different strengths, I feel that the SR009 is better suited towards pop and vocals, jazz music, solos, quartets and live music in more intimate settings; the HD800 is better suited for orchestral works, choir music and aggressive types of music like dance music or metal.


 
  
 I'm I the only one who thinks the HD800 has defused imaging?  IMO there's no way the HD800 image better than the 009s.  


lojay said:


> It's not background noise that one can hear when no music is playing, but rather the contrast between the natural noise floor in a recording with the music. There is less contrast with the SR009 than the HD800. *The SR009 is fuzzier around the edges*. That's what I understand most audiophiles to mean by referring to a blacker background.
> 
> I'm quite certain that my setup does not generate noise as you can see from my response to Astrostar.


 
  
 Fuzzier around the edges? * I haven't heard the T2*, It sounds like it does some things not as good as the BHSE.  On the BHSE the 009s don't have a black background.  They have no background on that amp - they get out off the way better than any other headphone I've heard.
  
 I notice a granier sound on the HD800 while the 009s are as transparent as transparent can get.  
  
 I really need to hear the T2.  Is it a hybrid amp or a full blown tube amp?


----------



## Music Alchemist

preproman said:


> I really need to hear the T2.  Is it a hybrid amp or a full blown tube amp?


 
  
 Hybrid. The DIY version has a better power supply than the original STAX SRM-T2.


----------



## Rhamnetin

preproman said:


> Fuzzier around the edges? * I haven't heard the T2*, It sounds like it does some things not as good as the BHSE.  On the BHSE the 009s don't have a black background.  They have no background on that amp - they get out off the way better than any other headphone I've heard.


 
  
 "Fuzzier around the edges" also made me think of transparency, where the SR-009, SR-007, and even lower end electrostats stomp on a well driven HD 800 to my ears.  The HD 800 is definitely "grainier" and still sounds like a headphone, while with the SR-009 it's just me and the music.  No background sounds about right for the SR-009 + BHSE.


----------



## bmichels

lojay said:


> I have recently joined a very exclusive club - the DIY T2 club that is.




CONGRATULATION !

Could you post* pictures of your T2 please* ? 
Thanks in advance


----------



## Rhamnetin

I wouldn't mind pictures of that T2 either.  That has to be the most intimidating looking headphone amplifier of all time though.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> I wouldn't mind pictures of that T2 either.  That has to be the most intimidating looking headphone amplifier of all time though.


 
  
 I don't think it looks all that intimidating, honestly.
  


Spoiler: Various DIY T2 photos, for reference






  
 What's truly intimidating is the schematic. (Click...if you dare.)


----------



## Rhamnetin

Well, none of those are very intimidating that's for sure.  The original Stax one, and DIY ones that strongly resemble it, look very intimidating, like they'd run me over easily.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> Well, none of those are very intimidating that's for sure.  The original Stax one, and DIY ones that strongly resemble it, look very intimidating, like they'd run me over easily.


 
  
 I see your point there...but still, I just want to caress it.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






  
 I don't recall if you saw this post about an eBay listing of an original T2 + SR-Omega for like $20K:
  


tinkerer said:


> That T2 is blown way out of normal price. That's the very same one that sold on yahoo!japan for less than $3500 earlier this year. The guy is flipping it for crazy money. There's been three or four original omegas sold there this year for $2000 and less too.


----------



## joseph69

All this talk about amps, I received my KGSSHV this afternoon and temporarily just finished setting it up in my system so I could finally listen to my 009 tonight until my BHSE arrives. I can't wait to listen to the 009 for a sufficient amount of time (burn-in) and get used to they sound-signature before posting my impressions.


----------



## PATB

joseph69 said:


> All this talk about amps, I received my KGSSHV this afternoon and temporarily just finished setting it up in my system so I could finally listen to my 009 tonight until my BHSE arrives. I can't wait to listen to the 009 for a sufficient amount of time (burn-in) and get used to they sound-signature before posting my impressions.


 

 I did not notice any burn-in in the three months I have been using my SR-009.  Oh, and your Grados will sound VERY DIFFERENT after listening to the SR-009 exclusively for a week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## mulveling

patb said:


> I did not notice any burn-in in the three months I have been using my SR-009.  Oh, and your Grados will sound VERY DIFFERENT after listening to the SR-009 exclusively for a week
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yep and yep. 009 sounded amazing right out of the box. And just lol at grados


----------



## Rhamnetin

patb said:


> I did not notice any burn-in in the three months I have been using my SR-009.  Oh, and your Grados will sound VERY DIFFERENT after listening to the SR-009 exclusively for a week
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hmm, maybe Stax or certain retailers burn them in.  And lol, I can only imagine how much different other headphones will sound after listening to the SR-009 exclusively for a week.


----------



## mulveling

rhamnetin said:


> Hmm, maybe Stax or certain retailers burn them in.  And lol, I can only imagine how much different other headphones will sound after listening to the SR-009 exclusively for a week.


 
 Back when there was a big hubbub about the driver imbalance issue, I believe it was mentioned that Stax runs in new headphones for 150 hours and then re-tests before sending them out -- and I think it was said that hour total was an increase in response to the imbalance issue (which seems to develop in the first week or two of use). The imbalance issue does seem to still occur, which is unfortunate and at least a bit concerning, but for what it's worth Stax does seem to have excellent quality control. I've heard 3 different 009's and all have had absolutely PERFECT L/R balance -- I mean this must be matching within to 0.1dB -- which is not a level of consistency and precision you can count on with the vast majority of transducer manufacturers.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulveling said:


> Back when there was a big hubbub about the driver imbalance issue, I believe it was mentioned that Stax runs in new headphones for 150 hours and then re-tests before sending them out -- and I think it was said that hour total was an increase in response to the imbalance issue (which seems to develop in the first week or two of use). The imbalance issue does seem to still occur, which is unfortunate and at least a bit concerning, but for what it's worth Stax does seem to have excellent quality control. I've heard 3 different 009's and all have had absolutely PERFECT L/R balance -- I mean this must be matching within to 0.1dB -- which is not a level of consistency and precision you can count on with the vast majority of transducer manufacturers.


 
  
 Which reminds me...those dual volume knobs on some of their amps could have been developed with this issue in mind. Although I've researched the whole imbalance thing for hours, I still never got a grasp of what is really going on, how prevalent it is, which models are affected, etc.


----------



## Pale Rider

jodet said:


> FYI, Elusivedisc.com is having a 12% off everything sale till Halloween.   I called and was told the new Stax stuff is included.
> 
> Time to pre-order that SR-L700 and 353X?


 

 This may have been covered already, but ordering on the website and using the 12% discount code produces no discount on the L700 or the 323 amp. It does produce a discount on the wooden stand. A phone call might be necessary, but the email announcing the discount contains this disclaimer: "Some equipment not eligible for discount, please call for details: 1-800-782-3472."


----------



## Jodet

pale rider said:


> This may have been covered already, but ordering on the website and using the 12% discount code produces no discount on the L700 or the 323 amp. It does produce a discount on the wooden stand. A phone call might be necessary.


 
  
 Ask for Jason.


----------



## lojay

preproman said:


> I'm I the only one who thinks the HD800 has defused imaging?  IMO there's no way the HD800 image better than the 009s.
> 
> Fuzzier around the edges? * I haven't heard the T2*, It sounds like it does some things not as good as the BHSE.  On the BHSE the 009s don't have a black background.  They have no background on that amp - they get out off the way better than any other headphone I've heard.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think you are probably one of the few who think the HD800 images worse than the SR009. I think you've read David Mahler's 58 flagship review and Tyll's reviews on Innerfidelity. The mods help focus the imaging too.
  
 About fuzzy edges, perhaps I am misunderstood for saying that the SR009 has fuzzy edges. It is still more precise than say the HE1000. With the DIY T2 the precision and clarity of the SR009 is the best I have ever heard with these headphones. It is just that in comparison with the HD800, the HD800 delineates multiple instruments playing in unison or harmony, like mass strings in orchestral works, clearer and with pinpoint accuracy. But the SR009 resolves inner details and "air" better than the HD800, for sure. It also does front-back layering between instruments with more precision.
  
 Apart from orchestral works, I prefer the SR009 / T2 over the HD800 on almost everything else. You are right on the granier sound - even when modded, the HD800s will never be as effortless and free of grain as the 009. 
  
 I've not heard the BHSE, but I genuinely cannot see how the SR009 can get better than this. I cannot fault anything with the amp.


----------



## joseph69

patb said:


> I did not notice any burn-in in the three months I have been using my SR-009.  Oh, and your Grados will sound VERY DIFFERENT after listening to the SR-009 exclusively for a week
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I just started listening, and if these need burn-in I can't even imagine how they would sound afterwards!
 I started out listening to some Barbra Streisand, and for the first time eve I heard her inhale through her nose…literally!
 I usually always go back to my Grados after listening to a new/different HP…this gives me a much better evaluation of each.


mulveling said:


> Yep and yep. 009 sounded amazing right out of the box. And just lol at grados


 
 Yes, they do to my surprise…I would have thought all HP's would need burn-in but as @mulvelinghas mentioned about Stax
 burning-in their HP's before releasing them to make sure there are no issues makes total sense as to why they sound so good right out of the box.


----------



## Rhamnetin

lojay said:


> With the DIY T2 the precision and clarity of the SR009 is the best I have ever heard with these headphones. It is just that in comparison with the HD800, the HD800 delineates multiple instruments playing in unison or harmony, like mass strings in orchestral works, clearer and with pinpoint accuracy. But the SR009 resolves inner details and "air" better than the HD800, for sure. It also does front-back layering between instruments with more precision.


 
  
 Sounds like you're describing imaging, particularly L-R imaging where the HD 800 is probably #1 of all time.


----------



## lojay

music alchemist said:


> ....
> I understand that you want to keep certain details secret, such as the builder, but would you be willing to reveal how much it cost and how long it took to build?
> 
> This is one of the most desirable electrostatic amps, and according to some people, it's even harder, longer, and more expensive to get one nowadays. I tracked down a list of DIY T2 owners and was planning on networking with them once I'm ready for one. One guy told me only a few people in the world would be able to build it now. I do know another guy who is building one for himself. It's taking him years, but he's lazy. haha
> ...


 
  
 While I would not like to disclose the price I paid, I can say that the DIY T2 is very expensive, much more than the BHSE, even if you get hold of someone to build it.  
  
 Listening to In Flames right now. The SR009/T2 does the melodic parts better but when the electric guitars start playing, while they play very fast and nothing is lost in the detail, it lacks the visceral impact of say the HE6. The slightly tipped up treble makes it sound quite fatiguing as well, but some may well like this sort of sound.


----------



## lojay

rhamnetin said:


> Sounds like you're describing imaging, particularly L-R imaging where the HD 800 is probably #1 of all time.


 
  
 Correct... but the SR-009 takes the cake for front back imaging


----------



## lojay

One photo for now


----------



## Ali-Pacha

The out-of-this-world dryness of HD800 does produce a blacker background than SR-009, whatever the amp.
 The latter let a liquid-like feeling of ringing you won't ever have with the rigorist cutting/damping of "Mr. technical" HD800.
 Speaking of this comparison, the very AKG-ish / left-right soundstage of HD800 does help in detail retrieval, making them more separated from each other. From my experience, HD-800 are still the most detailed headphones out there.
 2 cents.
  
 Ali


----------



## Rhamnetin

lojay said:


> Correct... but the SR-009 takes the cake for front back imaging


 
  
 That's good to know.  I couldn't really tell which had better front-back imaging just from the auditions I had, that sort of thing takes more time.  Front-back is more important to me.


----------



## lojay

ali-pacha said:


> The out-of-this-world dryness of HD800 does produce a blacker background than SR-009, whatever the amp.
> The latter let a liquid-like feeling of ringing you won't ever have with the rigorist cutting/damping of "Mr. technical" HD800.
> Speaking of this comparison, the very AKG-ish / left-right soundstage of HD800 does help in detail retrieval, making them more separated from each other. From my experience, HD-800 are still the most detailed headphones out there.
> 2 cents.
> ...


 
  
 Spot on- you've described it better than I do. The way the HD800 images is dry and rougher, but with sharp edges. The way the SR009 images is liquid and wet.
  
 Now about detail. The HD800 sounds clearer and "detailed" in the imaging/macro sense, but I think the SR009 is obviously more detailed throughout the frequency response within each voice and instrument with its superior transient response. The SR009 is head and shoulders above the HD800 in bass resolution, for instance.


----------



## Music Alchemist

lojay said:


> While I would not like to disclose the price I paid, I can say that the DIY T2 is very expensive, much more than the BHSE, even if you get hold of someone to build it.
> 
> Listening to In Flames right now. The SR009/T2 does the melodic parts better but when the electric guitars start playing, while they play very fast and nothing is lost in the detail, it lacks the visceral impact of say the HE6. The slightly tipped up treble makes it sound quite fatiguing as well, but some may well like this sort of sound.


 
  
 How ironic: In Flames is my favorite band!
  
 Personally, I'm not impressed by even the best planar magnetic headphones. Only electrostats sound real to me. Go figure.
  
 As for the treble...this and this graph show how neutral the SR-009 and SR-207 are. Both are mislabeled, but look how closely the raw grey measurements follow the green line. The SR-207 wasn't fatiguing for me at all, and it has a bit more treble than the SR-009 in some frequencies. The HE6, on the other hand, sounded brighter (but not excessively so) to me, and this corresponds with the measurements.


----------



## lojay

music alchemist said:


> How ironic: In Flames is my favorite band!
> 
> Personally, I'm not impressed by even the best planar magnetic headphones. Only electrostats sound real to me. Go figure.
> 
> As for the treble...this and this graph show how neutral the SR-009 and SR-207 are. Both are mislabeled, but look how closely the raw grey measurements follow the green line. The SR-207 wasn't fatiguing for me at all, and it has a bit more treble than the SR-009 in some frequencies. The HE6, on the other hand, sounded brighter (but not excessively so) to me, and this corresponds with the measurements.


 
  
 To give you a bit of perspective, to my ears the HE6's treble is highly offensive if unmodded. My pair is heavily modded, with a Fuzzor-like mod where the underside of the Vegan pads are covered with foam.
  
 The treble of the SR009 is probably unparalleled. However, modern recordings are often treble tilted, and are not mastered to sound natural or "live". That's why on the SR009 some recordings may sound too trebly.


----------



## Music Alchemist

lojay said:


> To give you a bit of perspective, to my ears the HE6's treble is highly offensive if unmodded. My pair is heavily modded, with a Fuzzor-like mod where the underside of the Vegan pads are covered with foam.
> 
> The treble of the SR009 is probably unparalleled. However, modern recordings are often treble tilted, and are not mastered to sound natural or "live". That's why on the SR009 some recordings may sound too trebly.


 
  
 Now things make more sense. I do know that it's common for HE6 owners to modify it, and am also painfully aware that many modern recordings are bright and/or harsh. But when it comes to metal, I don't mind all that, most of the time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Oh, and about the DIY T2...I heard nowadays the cost for the out of production parts is over $10K! Hope it's just a rumor.


----------



## Sorrodje

ali-pacha said:


> The out-of-this-world dryness of HD800 does produce a blacker background than SR-009, whatever the amp.
> The latter let a liquid-like feeling of ringing you won't ever have with the rigorist cutting/damping of "Mr. technical" HD800.
> Speaking of this comparison, the very AKG-ish / left-right soundstage of HD800 does help in detail retrieval, making them more separated from each other. From my experience, HD-800 are still the most detailed headphones out there.
> 2 cents.
> ...


 
  
 You heard my HD800 from a Modi/Vali combo my friend. HD800 is a different story from a better system.   .  We will do more listening when your BHSE and my DNA Stratus will be here.


----------



## thinker

I'm charging up the drivers and then i try to compare the L-700 to SR-009 and to other Lambdas,the feel of these phones are more robust than earlier Lambdas and the fit to the head is perfect Dumboears are welcome
 Very interested about transparency and resolution against SR-009


----------



## karmazynowy

@thinker, what other Lambdas do you mean? Can you compare L700 to LNS or Professional? Thanks. What amplifier?


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> Now things make more sense. I do know that it's common for HE6 owners to modify it, and am also painfully aware that many modern recordings are bright and/or harsh. But when it comes to metal, I don't mind all that, most of the time.


 
  
 The HE-6's treble can also sound hot when not given enough juice.  But I would really like to hear a heavily modded HE-6 (grill mod, aftermarket pads or jergpad mod, fuzzor mod, sorbo/damping mods) on a great, powerful (speaker) amp.  Not that I expect it to give high end Stax a run for it's money for my tastes.


----------



## Michgelsen

thinker said:


> I'm charging up the drivers and then i try to compare the L-700 to SR-009 and to other Lambdas,the feel of these phones are more robust than earlier Lambdas and the fit to the head is perfect Dumboears are welcome


 
  
  
 Did you ever try on the 507? Because the more robust feeling could be due to the new headband that the 507 also has. For me it works better than the old headband which all other Lambdas have.


----------



## Lan647

lojay said:


> Spot on- you've described it better than I do. The way the HD800 images is dry and rougher, but with sharp edges. The way the SR009 images is liquid and wet.
> 
> Now about detail. The HD800 sounds clearer and "detailed" in the imaging/macro sense, but I think the SR009 is obviously more detailed throughout the frequency response within each voice and instrument with its superior transient response. The SR009 is head and shoulders above the HD800 in bass resolution, for instance.


 
  
 I agree somewhat. The HD 800 is more detail-forward, and very tight and dry sounding. The SR-009 sounds softer... more "wet"... but with superior texture resolution throughout the range. 
  
 I think both are too bright but the SR-009 is superior certainly. It's a smoother and more refined sounding headphone.


----------



## rgs9200m

I had a funny experience with my 009. I tried a new version of my dac and my 009 became almost unlistenable, with glare in vocals and upper mids and sustained notes. (There were no other upstream changes. Even the same recordings.)
 I switched back to my old dac version which is more mellow and now the 009 is sounding glorious and totally non-fatiguing again.
 It just seems that the 009 is incredibly sensitive and synergy is all important and you have to take impressions with a grain of salt.
 I still think it is miraculous with the right upstream chain. It also shows how critical a dac is, as it can change everything.
 I also think the lesson is for those who try and 009 and have issues (especially digital glare), to hang in there and do some tweaking (not necessarily expensive, maybe even cheaper, or just a warmer cable somewhere in the system), and you will be fully rewarded.


----------



## ufospls2

thinker said:


> I'm charging up the drivers and then i try to compare the L-700 to SR-009 and to other Lambdas,the feel of these phones are more robust than earlier Lambdas and the fit to the head is perfect Dumboears are welcome
> Very interested about transparency and resolution against SR-009


 
 When you say you are charging up the drivers, what do you mean exactly? Is it necessary to plug in new stax headphones and power up the amp to charge them before the first time you use them, out of the box?


----------



## thinker

L-700 vs.SR-009 very short review because my new laptop sucks and i have listened only 1hour and the L-700
 should be break more in
  
 The presentation between these phones is different.
 Resolution and transparency is better on SR-009, the 009 has almost microscopic like resolution thats why the source is important when driving 009 and the reason why so many different opinions about 009 some call it too neutral or cold i can only imagine how good it sounds for instance with Frank Cooters amp.
 First thing i noticed that the L-700 sounds warmer and fuller especially on midrange , the bass is also fuller and somehow tighter with L-700 and it has more layerings.The upper midrange peak wich 009 sometimes has is gone .The presentation of 009 is although much airier than l-700 and you hear more subtle articulation and air between instruments with SR-009.The l-700 background is somehow very dark and i get the feeling that the presentation could be livelier like 009 is wich makes the music more alive.Soundstage or headstage on 700 is as wide as 009 to LR direction but as a whole the soundstage appear smaller with L- 700.It's easier or more relaxing to listen with l-700 because there is nothing wich pop on you face.The highs are articulated and somehow "seemless" because you don't make attention to them i think it's because the whole presentation is very balanced
 When comparing to older Lambdas the l-700 is not as euphonic as the old but definitely better than Lambda pro
 Comparing to Lambda signature i find the signature to be more musical but the sig.is far from to be as balanced as 700.
 Comparing to Omega i quess Omega has now tough times because the 700 is very close to Omega and might be better.The sound is quite similar what you hear from Omegas warm and articulated.I think you can't really compare it to SR-009 they are different in many ways the same analogy between HD-800 and HD-650.
 If the L-700 get's more air when breaking in it will be the second after 009


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Comparison through a Verto ?
  
 Ali


----------



## thinker

ali-pacha said:


> Comparison through a Verto ?
> 
> Ali


 

 Transistoramp v4 and verto and ​323


----------



## thinker

ufospls2 said:


> When you say you are charging up the drivers, what do you mean exactly? Is it necessary to plug in new stax headphones and power up the amp to charge them before the first time you use them, out of the box?


 
 yes


----------



## potkettleblack

Great update thanks. Any comparisons on detail retrieval?


----------



## ufospls2

thinker said:


> yes


 
 For how long?


----------



## thinker

potkettleblack said:


> Great update thanks. Any comparisons on detail retrieval?


 
 Detail articulation is excellent when comparing to 009 i miss nothing, the ground for details is warmer so you don't make too much attention in them


----------



## thinker

ufospls2 said:


> For how long?


 
 i don't know exactly some hours i guess


----------



## ufospls2

thinker said:


> i don't know exactly some hours i guess


 
 Cool, Thanks!


----------



## bearFNF

Still breaking in my lambda normal bias ~28 years and counting...


----------



## joseph69

ufospls2 said:


> For how long?


 
 This is the first time I've heard of "charging" the HP's, so I looked in my 009 user manual but can't read Japanese and there was only a description in English pointing out the construction of the HP itself e.g. ARC/headband/adjusters/cups/pads and thats it. I'm curious to know about this "charging" also, being the first time I used the 009 I just plugged them into the amp and listened to them at low volumes, So does anyone know if they NEED to "charge" initially when "new" or before listening each time?
 Thanks.


----------



## joseph69

thinker said:


> i don't know exactly some hours i guess


 
 Did you read this somewhere/know for a fact, or are you just guessing?
 Thanks.


----------



## ufospls2

joseph69 said:


> This is the first time I've heard of "charging" the HP's, so I looked in my 009 user manual but can't read Japanese and there was only a description in English pointing out the construction of the HP itself e.g. ARC/headband/adjusters/cups/pads and thats it. I'm curious to know about this "charging" also, being the first time I used the 009 I just plugged them into the amp and listened to them at low volumes, So does anyone know if they NEED to "charge" initially when "new" or before listening each time?
> Thanks.


 
 I think I read a Kevin Gilmore  post that mentioned burn in not existing but the headphones needing 1-2 days charge time. I'm not sure what that entails. I have some guesses about it but I don't want to post them as I don't know for sure. I will let someone more experienced chime in.


----------



## joseph69

ufospls2 said:


> I think I read a Kevin Gilmore  post that mentioned burn in not existing but the headphones needing 1-2 days charge time. I'm not sure what that entails. I have some guesses about it but I don't want to post them as I don't know for sure. I will let someone more experienced chime in.


 
(HERE) is what I found with a quick search.
 Apparently the Stax are charged (at least mine were) enough to hear them right out of the box, but may still ned more charging, I don't know? According to this link there would be no sound or a distorted sound coming from them without a charge.


----------



## edstrelow

Electrostatics  need to charge up their bias before they can operate.  That's why each driver has three contacts   In that respect they are unlike dynamics which just need a signal and ground to operate and just have two contacts. It could take some time for the stats  to charge up properly.  I recall getting both an SR007 and SR003 from Japan which sounded terrible on first use but settled down after a few hours. 
  
 As far as run-in or breakin, I find nothing implausible about a mechanical system such as a speaker or diaphragm needing at least some flexing before it loses some stiffness. Also the mechanical flexibility of a driver  may very well change after  long use.  But that doesn't mean that this is true of every phone or that it's always a big deal.   It's one of those things you consider if you do not like what you are hearing with a new phone.  Before you send it back,  let it run at least a few hours.
  
 However, I think the greater issue with stats is bias problems. One issue is that If the electrostatic forces that drive the diaphragm are not at their full capacity or evenly spread across the diaphragm and/or the outer plates, then the phones will not run up to spec. So longer use of the phones could settle this. I haven't seen any measurements to back this up however but it seems possible.
  
 The problem which is better established is what some people call a "parasitic charge," or the "electret effect."  Some materials can hold static charges for very long times, and that is the basis of the electret phone and microphone, which is a near relative of electrostatics.  These phones are more or less permanently biased and don't need the third contact.   The problem is that a true electrostatic   may also end up holding a charge which in some situations, like an electret,  which could be detrimental to its correct operation.  I worked in an EE department years ago which made electrostatic drivers for ultrasonic research and I recall the senior technician discussing the problem.  He found that sometimes the diaphragm of a newly made driver  unit held a charge of opposite polarity to its intended charge and that the driver  accordingly did not measure up to spec in use.  He was able to measure this charge, which he called the electret effect, with a high impedance probe. He  was concerned that he would have to remake the  entire driver units since they weren't fit for the job.  
  
 I  personally find that the Stax phones can sometimes sound "off" if not used for a long time and it may take  a few hours use, possibly over some days before they get back to their best sound.  I recall that Gilmore suggested shorting the pins of the phones after they were removed from the amp, to alleviate this problem.  I generally leave my stats plugged in when not in use and this seems to help avoid the issue too. 
  
 And of course the amp may also need to warm up and charge its capacitors.  Stat amps are generally class A and run very hot. If they are cold, I suspect they run off spec.  From my earliest days of listening to Stax, I have been hearing that the systems sound best after 45 or more minutes of use. I find that if the amp has been used throughout the day, it doesn't seem to need as much warm- up, even if it has cooled down. I wouldn't demonstrate them to show their advantages, if the system was stone cold and hadn't been used that day.


----------



## Music Alchemist

thinker said:


> I'm charging up the drivers and then i try to compare the L-700 to SR-009 and to other Lambdas,the feel of these phones are more robust than earlier Lambdas and the fit to the head is perfect Dumboears are welcome
> Very interested about transparency and resolution against SR-009


 
  
 Awesome photos!
  


thinker said:


> L-700 vs.SR-009 very short review because my new laptop sucks and i have listened only 1hour and the L-700
> should be break more in
> 
> The presentation between these phones is different.
> ...


 
  
 This comparison has been more helpful to me, because it seems more realistic as to the advantages each headphone has.
  
 When you say Omega, don't you mean the SR-007 (Omega II) instead of the original SR-Omega?
  
 As for warmth...if the SR-L700 is more warm than the SR-009 and SR-207, it seems to me that it would be less neutral, despite how many feel that it sounds more balanced.
  
 Here's the question of the hour: if budget isn't an issue, would you still say that the SR-009 is ultimately more accurate?


----------



## rgs9200m

Thinker, how is the comfort and overall feel when wearing them? Thank you.


----------



## Kiats

music alchemist said:


> Awesome photos!
> 
> 
> This comparison has been more helpful to me, because it seems more realistic as to the advantages each headphone has.
> ...




I'm just waiting for them to arrive in Singapore. Once I have it, I'll be able to compare them against my 007 MK1, MK2 and 009.


----------



## Music Alchemist

kiats said:


> I'm just waiting for them to arrive in Singapore. Once I have it, I'll be able to compare them against my 007 MK1, MK2 and 009.


 
  
 And Abyss!


----------



## Kiats

music alchemist said:


> And Abyss!




But of course.  and the HE1000. I recall someone asking for a comparison. Apologies about not having the time to embark on that venture at this stage though.


----------



## Music Alchemist

kiats said:


> But of course.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 In case you didn't see my posts about it, I was able to compare the Abyss, HE1000, HE6, and HD 800 side by side with my own music, and personally like the STAX SR-207 quite a bit more overall. The fit of the Abyss is pretty tricky, though...


----------



## Kiats

Yes I did, Music Alchemist.  Someone has asked about the 2 007s and the Abyss. Yes, the Abyss is a creature that needs plenty of love. And once you give it such love, the dividends are fantastic!


----------



## joseph69

Thank you very much for the thorough explanation…I found it to very helpful/interesting.


----------



## thinker

music alchemist said:


> Awesome photos!
> 
> 
> This comparison has been more helpful to me, because it seems more realistic as to the advantages each headphone has.
> ...


 
 Compared it to Omega 2. The l-700 has somehow more weight than 009 and is warmer than 009 maybe not as neutral as 009.Macrodynamics are mayby better with L-700.Yes i feel the 009 is more accurate in the end.
 But i guess there are many people who feel the l-700 is better it's a grown up Lambda.I charged up the phone whole night and it feels now more airy.Vocals are excellent
 it's a meatier presentation than 009 somehow it has an oldstyle retro sound like a tubeamp versus transistor


----------



## thinker

rgs9200m said:


> Thinker, how is the comfort and overall feel when wearing them? Thank you.


 
 The l-700 is very comfotable better than 507 and older Lambdas.The 507 is too tight and older Lambdas almost too loose.The Lambskin is quite soft around your ears and the clamping force is excellent.They don't feel heavy at all ofcourse older Lambdas feel lighter


----------



## rgs9200m

Thanks Thinker. Yep, I remember how tight and grippy and underpadded the old Lambda was that I used to own a long time ago. The new one does look cushier thankfully.


----------



## Music Alchemist

thinker said:


> Compared it to Omega 2. The l-700 has somehow more weight than 009 and is warmer than 009 maybe not as neutral as 009.Macrodynamics are mayby better with L-700.Yes i feel the 009 is more accurate in the end.
> But i guess there are many people who feel the l-700 is better it's a grown up Lambda.I charged up the phone whole night and it feels now more airy.Vocals are excellent
> it's a meatier presentation than 009 somehow it has an oldstyle retro sound like a tubeamp versus transistor


 
  
 Before anyone else beats me to it, I'm going to call it Super Lambda! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 With the SR-L700 and SR-009, I think the main issue for people is either going to be deciding whether to get one or the other, or timing, for those who want both. (Not counting those who already own the SR-009, of course.)


----------



## soren_brix

has this thread become a conversation between "Music Alchemist" and "Astrostar" discussing anything Stax related only based on pure speculation?


----------



## Music Alchemist

soren_brix said:


> has this thread become a conversation between "Music Alchemist" and "Astrostar" discussing anything Stax related only based on pure speculation?


 
  
 I haven't even replied to any of his posts in some time now, as far as I remember...


----------



## soren_brix

music alchemist said:


> I haven't even replied to any of his posts in some time now, as far as I remember...


 
 on the other hand you have been so very generous on speculating on your own, as far as I remember ...


----------



## Music Alchemist

soren_brix said:


> on the other hand you have been so very generous on speculating on your own, as far as I remember ...


 
  
 What are you referring to specifically?


----------



## thinker

After listening today several hours with L-700 and comparing it to SR-009 i found the 700 to be more controlled and sounding little bit like a closed headphone.
 And there is also another thing wich is hard to explain,when you listen to 009 it doesn't show you anything especially you have pick up or choose what you like to hear. .The l-700 is presenting for you,this feature came up when i noticed "new" things on recordings the l-700 "showed"me what i have to listen.Upper bass on l-700 is slightly prominent it gives the piano size or ground.I noticed on some recording that lower highs are also slightly prominent but this has to be investigated further


----------



## FrankCooter

This thread has gone flat. It's a shame, because in my opinion, after trying everything else, Stax makes the finest headphones ever produced.
  
 So here is my contribution: a DHT based electrostatic headphone amp. As far as I can tell, this is uncharted territory.  I'll be posting full schematics in the next few days, will take part in any discussion anyone wishes, and will do my best to answer all questions.
  
 As anyone familiar with electrostatic amplifier design will immediately recognize, this is not a traditional design. I am primarily a vacuum tube hobbyist and neither an audiophile or engineer, but I do like projects that go against convention.
  
 I spent the better part of a year and essentially the cost of a top-tier commercial product building this amp. I don't regret it, but there won't be another.
  
 The design is my own, but I've drawn heavily from the work of Pete Millet, Audio Note, Andrea Cuiffoli, and many others. This project could not have been done without the substantial help and custom transformers from Jack Elliano of Electra-Print Audio. And although we have different audio perspectives, the encyclopedic contributions of "Spritzer" and Dr. Kevin Gilmore have been the foundation of my understanding of electrostatic headphones and essentially enabled me to chart my own course.
  
 I make no claims about it's performance except that I am pleased with the result. The intent of the project was to offer a DHT perspective to the 009. Most that have heard it agree that for better or worse, it succeeds in that area.
  
 So if anyone is interested, fire away.


----------



## Jones Bob

Now that woke me up! 

Looking forward to the schematic Frank.


----------



## Music Alchemist

I've heard very impressive things about your amps, including from friends who have heard them. How does one go about purchasing an amp from you? From what little I've read about it, it seems that you only make amps for a few people.
  
 Also, is that quilt maple? It looks gorgeous, like designs I see on guitars.


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

Congratulations Frank


----------



## georgep

frankcooter said:


> This thread has gone flat. It's a shame, because in my opinion, after trying everything else, Stax makes the finest headphones ever produced.


 
  
 Agreed. And in fairness, I think most of the useful discussion on electrostats has moved to other the site - unfortunately it is mostly useless drivel here for the most part. Hoping that will change at some point.
  
 Looking forward to you publishing your project, maybe that will jump start things. Might want to cross post this one.


----------



## chinsettawong

Looking forward to seeing your schematics, Frank.


----------



## purk

Thank you for showing the innards of the amp...wow...what a beautiful P2P wiring!


----------



## mulveling

music alchemist said:


> What are you referring to specifically?


 
 You constantly talk about Stax models, e.g.  007 009 and L700, like you have experience with them. But you don't, as far as I'm aware. That's not even getting into amps. I appreciate your enthusiasm for the Stax models you've heard, but your post ratio is so high that your enthusiasm is probably mistaken for hard experience by a lot of lurkers in this forum. That's what we're not so thrilled about. Stax headphones are great because they sound so amazing both technically and musically. They don't need hype or speculation to muddy the waters.
  
 Also, an R2R dac is not required to enjoy the 009. That's stupid.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulveling said:


> You constantly talk about Stax models, e.g.  007 009 and L700, like you have experience with them. But you don't, as far as I'm aware. That's not even getting into amps. I appreciate your enthusiasm for the Stax models you've heard, but your post ratio is so high that your enthusiasm is probably mistaken for hard experience by a lot of lurkers in this forum. That's what we're not so thrilled about. Stax headphones are great because they sound so amazing both technically and musically. They don't need hype or speculation to muddy the waters.
> 
> Also, an R2R dac is not required to enjoy the 009. That's stupid.


 
  
 Fair enough. For the record, I have only heard the SR-207 and SR-30. When I talk about other models, I try to keep it relevant. For example, if someone posts a comparison, I might ask questions to learn more. At the moment, I don't have the luxury of buying them, so I resort to doing what I can to get a better feel for them until my budget is higher.


----------



## theboch

frankcooter said:


> This thread has gone flat. It's a shame, because in my opinion, after trying everything else, Stax makes the finest headphones ever produced.
> 
> So here is my contribution: a DHT based electrostatic headphone amp. As far as I can tell, this is uncharted territory.  I'll be posting full schematics in the next few days, will take part in any discussion anyone wishes, and will do my best to answer all questions.


 
  
 Wow. Can not wait to see the schematics - thank you


----------



## theboch

music alchemist said:


> I've heard very impressive things about your amps, including from friends who have heard them. How does one go about purchasing an amp from you? From what little I've read about it, it seems that you only make amps for a few people.
> 
> Also, is that quilt maple? It looks gorgeous, like designs I see on guitars.


 
  


frankcooter said:


> I spent the better part of a year and essentially the cost of a top-tier commercial product building this amp. I don't regret it, *but there won't be another*.


----------



## thinker

This Morning when i woke up the 700 has been charged up for 2 days now this phone appear to be frightening close to 009,it has now much more air and the darkness wich i described earlier is gone.I think you can hear now a wider scale the 700 goes deeper than 009 and the highs are almost invisible no piercing highs very articulated and the feeling that's a closed phone disappeared.Liquidness has also increased this is excellent phone one of the best i have heard.


----------



## Pier Paolo

I really can't believe in this charging needs. It should charge in a fraction of second.
Maybe it is now burned-in.


----------



## mulveling

pier paolo said:


> I really can't believe in this charging needs. It should charge in a fraction of second.
> Maybe it is now burned-in.


 
 It's because of the verto. Charging doesn't apply to any reasonable amp.


----------



## potkettleblack

music alchemist said:


> Fair enough. For the record, I have only heard the SR-207 and SR-30. When I talk about other models, I try to keep it relevant. For example, if someone posts a comparison, I might ask questions to learn more. At the moment, I don't have the luxury of buying them, so I resort to doing what I can to get a better feel for them until my budget is higher.


I dread to think how much you will be posting after you hear the higher models. 
You might want to start your own thread.


----------



## Tinkerer

Got my KGSSHV up and running finally. Lovely sound for sure.


----------



## soren_brix

thinker said:


> This Morning when i waked up the 700 has been charged up for 2 days now this phone appear to be frightening close to 009,it has now much more air and the darkness wich i described earlier is gone.I think you can hear now a wider scale the 700 goes deeper than 009 and the highs are almost invisible no piercing highs very articulated and the feeling that's a closed phone disappeared.Liquidness has also increased this is excellent phone one of the best i have heard.


 
 Why don't you post a pic of your 009 and L700 side by side ... maybe showing the amps you're using in the background?


----------



## headinclouds

frankcooter said:


> This thread has gone flat. It's a shame, because in my opinion, after trying everything else, Stax makes the finest headphones ever produced.
> 
> So here is my contribution: a DHT based electrostatic headphone amp. As far as I can tell, this is uncharted territory.  I'll be posting full schematics in the next few days, will take part in any discussion anyone wishes, and will do my best to answer all questions.
> 
> ...


 
 Hugely impressive work Frank.  Kudos for doing it and thank you for showing us the results.


----------



## gepardcv

georgep said:


> Looking forward to you publishing your project, maybe that will jump start things. Might want to cross post this one.



I agree with George. Please cross-post your work so we don't have to read through pages of unrelated conversation. Very excited to learn about your design.


----------



## thinker

Quote: 





soren_brix said:


> Why don't you post a pic of your 009 and L700 side by side ... maybe showing the amps you're using in the background?


 

 T​his is one of the pictures other pics you get later just let you know the Verto/ ML27,5 trumps Stax amps and Transistor v4 by far margin i recommend to try you can buy verto with 800 euros that's not much but you have to run it with a excellent amp
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I get the SRM-323X next week Wednesday i expect that amp suits 700 .


----------



## thinker

mulveling said:


> It's because of the verto. Charging doesn't apply to any reasonable amp.


 
 No it isn't i have charged it with 727 and tested it with verto/ml27.5, Stax headphones need charging up to 1-2 days, when you get them new they sound little bit muffled out of the fresh box.The 1 hour review is not accurate that's why i have updated the 700 review it's frightening close to 009


----------



## soren_brix

thinker said:


> No it isn't i have charged it with 727 and tested it with verto/ml27.5, Stax headphones need charging up to 1-2 days, when you get them new they sound little bit muffled out of the fresh box.The 1 hour review is not accurate that's why i have updated the 700 review it's frightening close to 009


 
 Considering how rigid the 009 construction is, and bigger diaphragm of the 009, the L700 seems to be less solid build and have the usual Lambda diaphragm size, it is a bit surprising that the sound is "frightening close" ... might it be that what you actually hear is that your amps is just not up for the task?


----------



## Pale Rider

soren_brix said:


> Considering how rigid the 009 construction is, and bigger diaphragm of the 009, the L700 seems to be less solid build and have the usual Lambda diaphragm size, it is a bit surprising that the sound is "frightening close" ... might it be that what you actually hear is that your amps is just not up for the task?



I had the same reaction. Now, I haven't heard the L700 yet, though I am considering ordering one. I have a soft spot in my heart for the original Lambda. But the likelihood that Stax would undercut its preeminent product with a "bargain" one strikes me as slim. Yes, manufacturers often market "trickle down" or "same characteristics" as a way to entice buyers who cannot afford the TOTL. and it may well be that on an amp which drives the L700 well, the 009's advantages (whatever they may be) may or may not be as easily discernible. One could argue that the superior phone should be superior in all sources. Maybe. But that ideal is not always realized.


----------



## thinker

soren_brix said:


> Considering how rigid the 009 construction is, and bigger diaphragm of the 009, the L700 seems to be less solid build and have the usual Lambda diaphragm size, it is a bit surprising that the sound is "frightening close" ... might it be that what you actually hear is that your amps is just not up for the task?


 
 I'am leaving the comparison for now and let other Head-fier to compare it with "better" amps


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Stax considers 009 as their greatest achievement to date. OK, they are far more sensitive than previous Omegas, but large drivers do need powerful amp with lots of current to really shine. So they began to work on a TOTL T2/BHSE/Carbon like amp.
  
 Problems :
 - parts availability (ask the mafia...)
 - price...considering they do pretty much no benefits from amp's selling
  
 Looks like they've set this amp on standby to apply some of the 009's tricks on Lambda drivers / enclosure with L700.
 From my experience, a good old Lambda Signature trumps 009 on regular amps on some aspects. Needing at least modded 727 for 009 to stand above Lambda Sign IMO.
  
 So Stax's choice through L700 looks the most effective one for Q/P ratio and company's health. Unless Stax reveals their TOTL amps pretty soon, tough times are coming for 009 (and moreover 007), indeed.
  
 My 2 cents of speculation for today.
  
 Ali


----------



## soren_brix

pale rider said:


> I had the same reaction. Now, I haven't heard the L700 yet, though I am considering ordering one. I have a soft spot in my heart for the original Lambda. But the likelihood that Stax would undercut its preeminent product with a "bargain" one strikes me as slim. Yes, manufacturers often market "trickle down" or "same characteristics" as a way to entice buyers who cannot afford the TOTL. and it may well be that on an amp which drives the L700 well, the 009's advantages (whatever they may be) may or may not be as easily discernible. One could argue that the superior phone should be superior in all sources. Maybe. But that ideal is not always realized.


 
  
 "One could argue that the superior phone should be superior in all sources" ...  I guess the result will be the weakest link in the chain


thinker said:


> I'am leaving the comparison for now and let other Head-fier to compare it with "better" amps


 
  
  
 As for my own experience neither the 323 nor the 006t can drive the 007mki nor the Sigmas. Although the 009 is significantly easier to drive it doesn't mean you get the most from the 009 driving them from a 323 ...not even if a suffix is added to the model name - I don't think an "x" gonna change much if anything at all.


----------



## Tinkerer

ali-pacha said:


> Stax considers 009 as their greatest achievement to date. OK, they are far more sensitive than previous Omegas, but large drivers do need powerful amp with lots of current to really shine. So they began to work on a TOTL T2/BHSE/Carbon like amp.
> 
> Problems :
> - parts availability (ask the mafia...)
> ...




You know, for as much as STAX amps get hammered, I'd still say things like an old 10S/12S do just fine for what they are. Better than even the 727A modded or the 717. Something like the KGSSHV is better, and noticeably so, but it's a game of inches past a certain point. Even Spritzer said how much he loved his rebuilt 10S with the SR-009 way back.

Also, pretty sure all the older KG amps were designed with the 007 in mind. The KGBHSE dates back to the Mk I and even the version 1 KGSSHV was something like 6 months before the 009 was announced, and that was mostly a higher voltage/current KGSS with a new power supply based on the one for BHSE if I remember right. The DIY T2 is basically a T2 (designed for the Omega).

I can't really think of a non-stax estat amp designed specifically for the SR-009. It's more like they piggyback off stuff made for hungrier phones.


----------



## soren_brix

tinkerer said:


> ...I and even the version 1 KGSSHV was something like 6 months before the 009 was announced, and that was mostly a higher voltage/current KGSS with a new power supply based on the one for BHSE if I remember right.
> 
> I can't really think of an estat amp designed specifically for the SR-009. It's more like they piggyback off stuff made for hungrier phones.


 
 main difference between KGSS and KGSShv is the PSU which is *not *based on the BHSE PSU, and the currrent sources in the amp.
  
 The KGST was an attempt to design an amp for the 009 specifically.


----------



## Tinkerer

soren_brix said:


> main difference between KGSS and KGSShv is the PSU which is *not* based on the BHSE PSU, and the currrent sources in the amp.
> 
> The KGST was an attempt to design an amp for the 009 specifically.




Right, I was thinking about the mini PSU. And I always forget about the KGST. My bad.


----------



## Rhamnetin

tinkerer said:


> I can't really think of a non-stax estat amp designed specifically for the SR-009. It's more like they piggyback off stuff made for hungrier phones.


  

  
 Quote:


soren_brix said:


> The KGST was an attempt to design an amp for the 009 specifically.


 
  
 Also, according to spritzer's store the KGSSHV Carbon was designed/tweaked for the SR-009 specifically.


----------



## soren_brix

rhamnetin said:


> Also, according to spritzer's store the KGSSHV Carbon was designed/tweaked for the SR-009 specifically.


 
 Not as far as I know.
 "Sound wise they are very similar but the KGST is warmer and more forgiving making it a better match to the SR-009", taken from Spritzer own website


----------



## joseph69

thinker said:


> I'am leaving the comparison for now and let other Head-fier to compare it with "better" amps


 
 Even though I just started my journey into estats and have never heard another amp than the 
 KGSSHV (spritzer build) I have to say that my 009 sounds amazing to me…but like I said, I have nothing to compare it to and ignorance is bliss. I'm waiting for my BHSE to arrive so then I'll compare both amps.


----------



## FrankCooter

Here are the schematics for my 845 electrostatic amp. Sorry for the hand drawings, but it's the way I've done this stuff for 40 years so it's a little late in the game to change
  
 Electrically it's a pretty basic design. A simple 3 stage zero feedback single-ended design with a phase-splitting 1:1-1  1kV rated interstage transformer as the output device. Only things slightly unusual are the use of "fixed" bias on the output tube, the interstage transformer driving the 845, and perhaps the CCS/LED set up of the first stage.
  
 The power supply is a little more complex. The HV is solid-state rectified but passes through cascaded series tube regulators. The bias supply passes through a relay that powers the B+ supply transformer. If the bias fails, the relay drops out and shuts down the amp. The 845 filament voltage comes from a simple "brute force" CLCLCRC supply. Haven't had much luck with regulated filament supplies at these (6.6A) current levels. First and second stage filament voltage is sourced from a small Pete Millett regulated supply.
  
 In subsequent posts I'll discuss construction details and the reasons behind design and component choices.


----------



## jgazal

soren_brix said:


> Considering how rigid the 009 construction is, and bigger diaphragm of the 009, the L700 seems to be less solid build and have the usual Lambda diaphragm size, it is a bit surprising that the sound is "frightening close" ... might it be that what you actually hear is that your amps is just not up for the task?







ali-pacha said:


> Stax considers 009 as their greatest achievement to date. OK, they are far more sensitive than previous Omegas, but large drivers do need powerful amp with lots of current to really shine. So they began to work on a TOTL T2/BHSE/Carbon like amp.
> (...)
> So Stax's choice through L700 looks the most effective one for Q/P ratio and company's health. Unless Stax reveals their TOTL amps pretty soon, tough times are coming for 009 (and moreover 007).




Considering Stax portfolio evolution, what would be next step?

An improved SR-007 adopting the 009/L700/L500 metal arc and multi layer electrodes, while retaining the current SR-007 ear cups, ear pads and its peculiarities, such as rotating ear cups, unperforated stator edges and thicker spacers?

So in order to unleash full performance of such hypothetical new headphone, does Stax need first to develop the high power amplifier you mentioned?


----------



## Rhamnetin

soren_brix said:


> Not as far as I know.
> "Sound wise they are very similar but the KGST is warmer and more forgiving making it a better match to the SR-009", taken from Spritzer own website


 
  
 You were reading the description of the KGST vs the BHSE.  For the KGSSHV Carbon he says:
  


> The original design concept for this amp was born to tame the rough top end of the SR-009 but it grew from there to become the best solid state amplifier we have designed.


----------



## joseph69

Can anyone tell me if the 007 ear pads are thicker than the 009 are pads…also are they compatable?
 Thank you.


----------



## Music Alchemist

potkettleblack said:


> I dread to think how much you will be posting after you hear the higher models.
> You might want to start your own thread.


 
  
 LOL at the reputation comment about starting my own forum. XD
  
 I've actually been considering starting one of those blog/journal threads for some time. Believe it or not, I have a rather large "fan club".
  


ali-pacha said:


> large drivers do need powerful amp with lots of current to really shine.


 
  
 Which reminds me...how does this "lots of current" thing work? Most technical sources say that electrostats require high voltage, but barely any current. But I also hear about how they generally sound better with a better power supply. Does this only involve the power supply, or other aspects as well?
  


joseph69 said:


> Can anyone tell me if the 007 ear pads are thicker than the 009 are pads…also are they compatable?
> Thank you.


 
  
 Check this out:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/754839/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods


----------



## Tinkerer

joseph69 said:


> Can anyone tell me if the 007 ear pads are thicker than the 009 are pads…also are they compatable?
> Thank you.


 
  
 That info should be in the SR-007 ear pad mod thread, but IIRC the 009 are a slightly larger diameter meaning you can put them on the SR-007 but not vice versa


----------



## joseph69

music alchemist said:


> Check this out:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/754839/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods


 


tinkerer said:


> That info should be in the SR-007 ear pad mod thread, but IIRC the 009 are a slightly larger diameter meaning you can put them on the SR-007 but not vice versa


 
 Thank you for the information, I appreciate it.


----------



## soren_brix

rhamnetin said:


> You were reading the description of the KGST vs the BHSE.  For the KGSSHV Carbon he says:


 
  
 Spritzer quotes from the other site:
 May 2014:
 "_I haven't had enough time with this version yet but the design offers a nice middle ground between the BH and the KGSSHV.  That's also why we picked it as a starting point to do a 009 amp... _ 





"
 May 2015:
 "_Now with it sitting in my main rack for a couple of hours it's time for some impressions.  



  The basic concept of this amp came from me wanting to tame the SR-009 artificial top end and doing it in a cool way.  End result is the continued refinement of older circuits but the changes here will no doubt migrate to the older circuits at some point.  As better SiC units became available and the new SR-009 showed up it rendered this amp unnecessary but then it became clear that it could melt together the superb technical nature of the KGSSHV and the musicality of the KGST into one package.  So we basically have a lot of power, with plenty of detail and a tube like sound from a solid state amp. _
 
_Now I'm using it with my modified SR-007Mk2 which have pretty much outshone all my other cans.  Nothing can touch the bass these dish out or the sheer control over the entire sound spectrum.  The Carbon just adds to this as the detail they dig out is simply astounding, placing instruments in their own fixed place in the soundstage which the 009 can't really do as well_. "
 
If you have a look at the schematics of the KGST and the Carbon you'll see that it's a the Caron is a KGST with silicon carbide output devices in place of the triode...sort of ....where as the KGST runs at 10mA at the output stage the Carbon runs at 20mA ...pretty close to the 25mA the BHSE runs ...


----------



## soren_brix

jgazal said:


> Considering Stax portfolio evolution, what would be next step?


 
 ...and how useful would that be to anyone speculating on this?


----------



## arnaud

BHSE bias current is 18mA afaik (Kevin's input), maybe differences between the commercial version and some diy builds?

Also a link for MusicAlchemist before we beat yet another dead horse: http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/18570_30#post_8458789


----------



## soren_brix

music alchemist said:


> LOL at the reputation comment about starting my own forum. XD
> 
> I've actually been considering starting one of those blog/journal threads for some time. Believe it or not, I have a rather large "fan club".


 
 undoubtely true ... what holds you back?


----------



## soren_brix

arnaud said:


> BHSE bias current is 18mA afaik (Kevin's input), maybe differences between the commercial version and some diy builds?


 
 Believe you are right. The original Blue Hawaii was set at 25mA ...but I guess that current has been lowered due to heat problems.


----------



## joseph69

BHSE batch #4 (current)
  
*SPECIFICATIONS*

*Device Type*Solid State with Vacuum Tube Output*Frequency Response* *Signal-to-Noise Ratio* *Total Harmonic Distortion* *Gain*500x / 54dB*Input Impedance*50K ohms*Output Voltage*1600V peak-to-peak*Inputs*2 RCA, 1 XLR*Outputs*1 RCA and 1 XLR loop output, 2 headphone jacks*Bias Voltage*580V (adjustable)*Operating Voltage*100VAC, 120VAC, or 230VAC*Power Consumption*200 Watts*Chassis Dimensions (Amp)* *Chassis Dimensions (PSU)* *Weight (Amp)* *Weight (PSU)*


----------



## soren_brix

frankcooter said:


> Here are the schematics for my 845 electrostatic amp. Sorry for the hand drawings, but it's the way I've done this stuff for 40 years so it's a little late in the game to change
> 
> Electrically it's a pretty basic design. A simple 3 stage zero feedback single-ended design with a phase-splitting 1:1-1  1kV rated interstage transformer as the output device. Only things slightly unusual are the use of "fixed" bias on the output tube, the interstage transformer driving the 845, and perhaps the CCS/LED set up of the first stage.
> 
> ...


 
 Doesn't this deserve a thread on its own? Thanks for sharing.


----------



## bmichels

Can we consider that With A SR009, the *KGSSHV Carbon* can be better than a *BHSE* ?  
  
 (it is easier to get and cheaper, but... is it at least as good as the BHSE ?)


----------



## astrostar59

bmichels said:


> Can we consider that With A SR009, the *KGSSHV Carbon* can be better than a *BHSE* ?
> 
> (it is easier to get and cheaper, but... is it at least as good as the BHSE ?)


 

 Only way to know is get to hear both for yourself. Understand that is almost impossible however. Thing is, comparing a SS amp with a tube amp, they are so different. The tubes in the BHSE impart a sonic character that you will probably never get from a SS design, even though the BHSE only has the tubes on the 4th final stage. And having those tubes can help balance the system, whereas an SS amp is fixed, take it as is.
  
 My guess (probably wrong) but the BHSE would be more transparent and organic, the Carbon more punchy and have more bass output. That seems logical to me. Maybe wait for more Carbon users to post here and at the 'other place'. Some will buy the Carbon and already have the BHSE so that will help. Having said that though, even if they use the 009s on both amps, the DAC they use will also change the sound i.e. if the DAC is a bit bright, the Carbon may be the better sounding amp in that particular system.
  
 Regardless, I bet the Carbon will be superb. I would buy one for sure if my wallet could stretch....


----------



## Tinkerer

arnaud said:


> BHSE bias current is 18mA afaik (Kevin's input), maybe differences between the commercial version and some diy builds?
> 
> Also a link for MusicAlchemist before we beat yet another dead horse: http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/18570_30#post_8458789



 
The amount of current you can push through is usually limited by what heat you can dissipate from the sand or the triodes. Like on the KGSSHV, the current would be about 5.5ma x2 per amp card with the normal onboard, but the heatsinks handle a little more just fine. And the offboard handles even more.


----------



## jgazal

soren_brix said:


> ...and how useful would that be to anyone speculating on this?


 
So forgive me. Not useful. Just genuine curiosity. Would like to grasp what designers can do to improve electrostatic transducers.


----------



## kevin gilmore

somewhere here there was a part of a thread where a couple of people did calculations
 of how much current you need at the voltage swing you desire into a standard electrostatic load (120pf)
 etc. (someone else can probably find the links)
  
 But the result is roughly 20ma for full voltage swing with +/-400v power supplies at 20khz.
  
 Every solid state or solid state/tube hybrid that's fully dc coupled (i.e no output transformers)
 has to be a pure class A device, and while balanced, is not push pull.
  
 My circlotron is a version of push pull, 25ma of bias, capable of 100ma or more current delivery.
 (for those people that want full voltage swing at 50khz)
  
 you can do push pull at lower voltages to reduce power and maintain frequency response
 (likely the sure kse1500 does this because it gets way better battery life than the srm001)
  
 recently I have received samples of "P" type devices rated at 1200V that are going to make
 a standard complementary bridged amplifier possible.
  
 Please thank the Solar and Wind industries for generating the need for these new devices.
 (and the demand for these devices is going only one way, at least until cold fusion happens)


----------



## rgs9200m

joseph69 said:


> Can anyone tell me if the 007 ear pads are thicker than the 009 are pads…also are they compatable?
> Thank you.


 
 In terms of comfort only, I find the 007 Mk 2 to be significantly more comfortable than the 009; the 007 Mk2 pads feel more cushy and pillowy, whereas the 009 pads are spartan and basic, with sharper edges and just barely thick enough for me.
 Personally, I would love a thicker more rounded pad on the 009, but it is what it is. I put up with it because of the great sound (KGSSHV-mini driven).
 (In contrast, the original 007 Mk 1 that I owned starting in 1999 had pads so thin they just collapsed and felt unacceptable to me. Just my experience here. I actually sold them because of this discomfort.)


----------



## joseph69

rgs9200m said:


> In terms of comfort only, I find the 007 Mk 2 to be significantly more comfortable than the 009; the 007 Mk2 pads feel more cushy and pillowy, whereas the 009 pads are spartan and basic, with sharper edges and just barely thick enough for me.
> Personally, I would love a thicker more rounded pad on the 009, but it is what it is. I put up with it because of the great sound (KGSSHV-mini driven).
> (In contrast, the original 007 Mk 1 that I owned starting in 1999 had pads so thin they just collapsed and felt unacceptable to me. Just my experience here. I actually sold them because of this discomfort.)


 
 Thanks for the input.
 I find the 009 pads extremely comfortable…no issues.
 I was asking because when I pull the 009 cups* ever so slightly* away from my ears (without blocking the grills with my hands) the bass response/warmth is tremendously increased. I was just wondering if there were thicker pads available to move the drivers away from my ears to hear how it would sound. I may look into the pad mod #2 (HERE) and hear because it seems to describe what I'm hearing when pull the cups away from my ears and see how I like it. 
 also by all means, I'm not complaining about the sound in any way…at all.


----------



## Music Alchemist

soren_brix said:


> _Now I'm using it with my modified SR-007Mk2 which have pretty much outshone all my other cans.  Nothing can touch the bass these dish out or the sheer control over the entire sound spectrum.  The Carbon just adds to this as the detail they dig out is simply astounding, placing instruments in their own fixed place in the soundstage which the 009 can't really do as well_. "


 
  
 Wow, thanks for sharing that. I had no idea he liked his modified SR-007MK2 more than the original SR-007. Great news for me, since the SR-007MK2 is the only headphone I have nothing to complain about in terms of aesthetics.
  
Do you know if he did mods other than the port mod and springs? (Looked up the post and found those were the only mods involved.)
  


arnaud said:


> BHSE bias current is 18mA afaik (Kevin's input), maybe differences between the commercial version and some diy builds?
> 
> Also a link for MusicAlchemist before we beat yet another dead horse: http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/18570_30#post_8458789


 
  
 Well, I was aware of some of the figures (such as from this thread), but just didn't have a technical understanding of how electrostats benefit from current. All I know is that they need high voltage.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

tinkerer said:


> You know, for as much as STAX amps get hammered, I'd still say things like an old 10S/12S do just fine for what they are. Better than even the 727A modded or the 717. Something like the KGSSHV is better, and noticeably so, but it's a game of inches past a certain point. Even Spritzer said how much he loved his rebuilt 10S with the SR-009 way back.
> 
> Also, pretty sure all the older KG amps were designed with the 007 in mind. The KGBHSE dates back to the Mk I and even the version 1 KGSSHV was something like 6 months before the 009 was announced, and that was mostly a higher voltage/current KGSS with a new power supply based on the one for BHSE if I remember right. The DIY T2 is basically a T2 (designed for the Omega).
> 
> I can't really think of a non-stax estat amp designed specifically for the SR-009. It's more like they piggyback off stuff made for hungrier phones.


 
 I'm not the kind of guy who will slam Stax amp's. I own two lovely units (SRM-1/mk2 pro rev. C and modded 727II, both black), and they are maybe the best you can get for the (japanese) price, considering enclosure, regulations, reliability, performances, etc... We have to praise them, considering how much overpriced crap you may find in this hobby. I won't give brand names, but you know what I mean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Birgir is obviously one of the most skilled guy out there regarding Stax / e-stats technology, with his Doppelgänger Herr Gilmore. Their technological statements won't give them any diplomatic awards, but as rude as the mafia could be, it has been (and still is) one of the most useful community to this hobby.
 Considering Birgir's personal statements about sound, they are his, and I'm not always on the same wavelength, so I won't argue...let's say I do love 009, and won't be as hyperbolic (to say the least) on differences beetween amps.
  
 From my experience, Lambdas do pretty well out of any Stax amp, but large Omegas drivers do benefit from extra current, whatever the sensitivity. So BHSE/T2 class are a good way to go when you want ultimate dynamics and tight response, not only beautiful tones. Sigmas are somewhere in the middle...easy to drive, but enclosure's damping has to be taken into account.
  
 Obviously, Frank's pieces of art / madness are out of this world, and my only feeling about his work would be 
 (And that's what Jude did, indeed)
  
 Maybe I should stop parroting myself for a while, now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## Ali-Pacha

rgs9200m said:


> In terms of comfort only, I find the 007 Mk 2 to be significantly more comfortable than the 009; the 007 Mk2 pads feel more cushy and pillowy, whereas the 009 pads are spartan and basic, with sharper edges and just barely thick enough for me.
> Personally, I would love a thicker more rounded pad on the 009, but it is what it is. I put up with it because of the great sound (KGSSHV-mini driven).
> (In contrast, the original 007 Mk 1 that I owned starting in 1999 had pads so thin they just collapsed and felt unacceptable to me. Just my experience here. I actually sold them because of this discomfort.)


 
 Metal springs within 007 pads, no springs in 009 pads.
 Brown pleather on 007mk1, black lambskin leather on 007mk1 BL, 007mk2/A and 009.
 Looks like springs were gone on your 007mk1....?

 Ali


----------



## Jones Bob

music alchemist said:


> Wow, thanks for sharing that. I had no idea he liked his modified SR-007MK2 more than the original SR-007. Great news for me, since the SR-007MK2 is the only headphone I have nothing to complain about in terms of aesthetics. Do you know if he did mods other than the port mod and bending the metal frame?
> 
> 
> Well, I was aware of some of the figures (such as from this thread), but just didn't have a technical understanding of how electrostats benefit from current. All I know is that they need high voltage.




Electrostatic headphone present a load to the amp of a large plate capacitor, and will have a decreasing impedance at increasing frequency. Means that more current is required to fully drive them out to to 20kHz (or beyond).


----------



## Jones Bob

joseph69 said:


> Thanks for the input.
> I find the 009 pads extremely comfortable…no issues.
> I was asking because when I pull the 009 cups *ever so slightly* away from my ears (without blocking the grills with my hands) the bass response/warmth is tremendously increased. I was just wondering if there were thicker pads available to move the drivers away from my ears to hear how it would sound. I may look into the pad mod #2 [COLOR=FF0000](HERE)[/COLOR] and hear because it seems to describe what I'm hearing when pull the cups away from my ears and see how I like it.
> also by all means, I'm not complaining about the sound in any way…at all.




I have gently bent/modified the arc of my SR-009 to: 
1) Better fit with less clamping on my pumpkin sized head.
2) Get the most natural and deep bass response. In my case, there is very little clamping force now. An almost sloppy fit . 

One can try this easily while slowly pulling the earspeakers out (relieving clamping force) while playing music. For me there was a location window of within 3mm where SQ just came together. I bent the arc and retest/rebend to make sure the SQ results are set at optimum.


----------



## joseph69

jones bob said:


> I have gently bent/modified the arc of my SR-009 to:
> 1) Better fit with less clamping on my pumpkin sized head.
> 2) Get the most natural and deep bass response. In my case, there is very little clamping force now. An almost sloppy fit .
> One can try this easily while slowly pulling the earspeakers out (relieving clamping force) while playing music. For me there was a location window of within 3mm where SQ just came together. I bent the arc and retest/rebend to make sure the SQ results are set at optimum.


 
 Thanks, so I take it you hear the same as I do when the cups very slightly pulled away from the ears.
 I did this to all of my Grado HP's also, so I know exactly what/how you are saying to do this, I just didn't realize the arc was metal/aluminum, I thought it was plastic, otherwise it would have been done already. Thanks!


----------



## Jones Bob

Yup. In my case barely a seal with the SR-009. Monster low, tight and layed bass now. Slays my old LCD-3F


The Stax SR-009 arc is all plastic. Just GENTLY over-bent it, so that it springs back to a wider relaxed condition. Do it slowly, multiple times (don't overstress the plastic) and retest by listening until you find the sweet spot is set when you just put on the headphones. 

Cautiously using a;hair dryer at the arc bends can help too. Just do not overdo it all at once.


----------



## joseph69

jones bob said:


> Yup. In my case barely a seal with the SR-009. Monster low, tight and layed bass now. Slays my old LCD-3F
> The Stax SR-009 arc is all plastic. Just GENTLY over-bent it, so that it springs back to a wider relaxed condition. Do it slowly, multiple times (don't overstress the plastic) and retest by listening until you find the sweet spot is set when you just put on the headphones.
> Cautiously using a;hair dryer at the arc bends can help too. Just do not overdo it all at once.


 
 I already found out the hard way that the arc was plastic…I snapped it in half!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Just kidding. I thought it was plastic and I'm gently pulling the arc outward (horizontally) evenly a little bit at a time which I will repeat as needed. Your correct, I used the word warmth to describe the sound difference when its actually the bass depth that increases substantially. Thanks again, I appreciate it!


----------



## joseph69

I'm just about where I want the headphones to just slightly rest over my ears by slowly but surly bending the arc. What a difference in the overall bass presence/depth…WOW!
 Is this a commonly known mod to do to the 009?
 Thanks.


----------



## thinker

Update on Stax website
 Stax SRM-323X
  
 Original low-noise dual FET at first stage as well as all-stage
  
 direct coupling class-A DC amplifier configuration with no
 coupling capacitor has realized natural tone quality with much amount of information.
 ●
*Further improved emitter follower at output stage has enabled*
*wide-range reproduction resulting in both the extended*
*dynamic range at high frequency and the improved tone quality.*
  
*Carefully selected high-quality parts of an audio grade further*
*improved the tone quality, and re*
*-examination of circuit detail*

 ●
 In addition to RCA input terminal, XLR balanced input terminal is provided to connect to wide range of audio
 equipment.
 ●
 Custom-made 2-axis 4-gang volume controller is employed.
 ●
 Extravagant non-magnetic aluminum alloy
 chassis of STAX tradition is adopted.
 ●
 Components with little aging characteristics are selected ca
 refully in consideration of tone quality and performance.
 The SRM-353X is the exclusive driver unit (amplifier) produc
 ed in order to drive STAX electrostatic type Earspeaker much
 more ideally.
 ●
 Frequency response: DC - 90kHz (when used with one SR-L series Earspeaker)
 ●
 Rated input level: 100mV (at 100V output)
 ●
 Gain: 60dB
 ●
 Harmonic distortion: 0.01% or less (with o
 ne SR-L500 at 100Vr.
 m.s. / 1kHz output)
 ●
 Input impedance: 50k
 Ω
 (RCA) / 50k
 Ω
 x 2 (XLR)
 ●
 Input terminal: RCA x 1 or XLR x 1 (alternative)
 ●
 Maximum output voltage:
 400Vr.m.s. / 1kHz
 ●
 Standard bias voltage: DC580V
 ●
 Mains voltage: Different depending on the
 area.
 ●
 Power consumption: 30W
 ●
 Operating temperature / humidity: 0 to 35
 degrees C / less than 90% (non condensing)
 ●
 Dimension: 150 (W) x100 (H) x360 (D) mm (protruding portion included)
 ●
 Weight: 3.0kg
 ●


----------



## thinker

and L-700
   
  
Skilled technology with years of experience


 Top-quality sound element
 As in the SR-009, strictly selected thin
 -film diaphragm as well as fixed electrodes
 machined through three-layer stainless etch
 ing using
 heat diffusion has also been employed for the SR-L700. Thus
 rich deep bass-response, delicate
 high-frequency and soothing mid-
 range have been realized in a balanced manner.


----------



## zolkis

joseph69 said:


> I'm just about where I want the headphones to just slightly rest over my ears by slowly but surly bending the arc. What a difference in the overall bass presence/depth…WOW!
> Is this a commonly known mod to do to the 009?
> Thanks.


 
  
 At least with the 007 works in similar way. There is an optimal pressure and angle, difficult to find.
 With the 009 differences were much less, at least for me.


----------



## zolkis

tinkerer said:


> That info should be in the SR-007 ear pad mod thread, but IIRC the 009 are a slightly larger diameter meaning you can put them on the SR-007 but not vice versa


 
  
 That is right. The difference is small (~2 mm perhaps), but it would make it difficult to fit the 007 pads on the 009. While the 009 pads on the 007 did wonders (shallower pads, larger opening, no spring), I haven't even tried the other way. I'd avoid "suffocating" the 009 (change the loading) with a smaller diameter pad. It didn't work (sound-wise) for instance when fitting the TH900 pads on the 007. Looks like Stax e-stats can handle somewhat bigger (and more shallow) inner openings than they were designed to, but not that much the smaller openings.
  
 Also, making the 009 internal stuffing higher, or changing the foam material have made the bass somewhat bigger, but the neutral appeal of the 009 was reduced, making it a nice warmer sounding headphone, but losing a bit of "this gets every tone right" magic. I think the 009 is pretty much optimally tuned by the factory. There are reasons to thing that probably the L700 will share that treat of being optimally tuned by factory.
  
 The really big possibilities are there with the 007 Mk1 in turn. The only issue is that the modded 009 pads on the 007 are too shallow to be comfortable to most. That gives the L700 the advantage, even though I consider the 007 design much better for fitting the phones to ones head to an optimal setting. While tedious process, it makes a huge difference.


----------



## joseph69

zolkis said:


> At least with the 007 works in similar way. There is an optimal pressure and angle, difficult to find.
> With the 009 differences were much less, at least for me.


 
 For me, the difference is huge with the 009 IMO…it sounded great before this, but now with the deeper/warmer bass, I just can't believe how they sound. After doing this simple mod to the arc, I walked away from the HP's after listening in awe, and just kept looking back at the HP's and saying to myself WOW over and over again, literarily!


----------



## zolkis

joseph69 said:


> For me, the difference is huge with the 009 IMO…it sounded great before this, but now with the deeper/warmer bass, I just can't believe how they sound. After doing this simple mod to the arc, I walked away from the HP's after listening in awe, and just kept looking back at the HP's and saying to myself WOW over and over again, literarily!


 
  
 Enjoy it then I know what you feel . I had similar experience with the modded 007.
 (I think the reason for less change with the 009 may be our difference of head form .
  
 With the pad mod, I experienced an improvement in similar direction as you, if not with that extent. After 2-3 weeks I changed back to the original pad settings and it was then I found that despite the warmer  and deeper bass, I prefer the original neutral signature. I wonder what you'd say after 3 weeks when you change back to the original (it also depends on your musical genre preferences).
 And let's not forget mine was only a (reversible) pad mod.
  
 I am afraid that 009 arc mod is difficult to undo. Though the arc should be metal, covered in plastic, the plastic part looks fragile. You need to remain in the flexible zone of the plastic, while achieving a permanent, stable bend. Sounds tricky, and with some risk. Gone wrong it may affect the resale value of the headphones. Also, once done, you can't undo and redo it many times, so you'd need to know for sure.
  
 Could someone test this arc mod by slightly pulling the headphones wider, away from the ear, while not obstructing the back side of the drivers (e.g. using the cable joints)? Then people could make an approximate test before starting to change the arc.


----------



## Jones Bob

The SR-009 arc mods are easy to undo if one takes their time. Although after hearing them modded, I doubt anyone would want to undo it. 

If worse comes to worse and the arc gets cracked, a replacement arc assembly is around $80.


----------



## georgep

jones bob said:


> The SR-009 arc mods are easy to undo if one takes their time. Although after hearing them modded, I doubt anyone would want to undo it.
> 
> If worse comes to worse and the arc gets cracked, a replacement arc assembly is around $80.




Thanks for the schematic. But where do you see the assembly for $80?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Average bald heads rule 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## joseph69

zolkis said:


> Could someone test this arc mod by slightly pulling the headphones wider, away from the ear, while not obstructing the back side of the drivers (e.g. using the cable joints)? Then people could make an approximate test before starting to change the arc.


 
 This is exactly what I did, with the exception of pulling the cups away from my ears by the cable…I pulled the cups out ever so slightly without blocking the grills from the bottom of the cups with my forefingers and thumbs. This is what made me hear the difference which I thought was incredible and lead me to ask about the 007 pads to find out if they were thicker and were compatible with the 009 so I could move the drivers away from my ears, thats when @Jones Bob chimed in and advised me to bend the arc (with caution) being it is made from plastic (which is why I didn't do it in the first place, although initially I thought the arc was metal/aluminum, so I was a bit skeptical being when he said it is plastic. After reading that he had bent his arc with success, I tried it a little bit at a time with excellent results.
  
EDIT: Credit to Jones Bob
Thanks again!


----------



## georgep

Can't take credit for the bending idea - that was someone else. In fact, I have not had fit issues with any of my stax earspeakers and so have not had to do any fit mods such as arc bending.


----------



## joseph69

georgep said:


> Can't take credit for the bending idea - that was someone else. In fact, I have not had fit issues with any of my stax earspeakers and so have not had to do any fit mods such as arc bending.


 
 My mistake…credit goes to @Jones Bob.


----------



## Lan647

To be honest... I can't change the sound of the 007/009 much at all no matter how I twist and turn them on me noggin'. Of course the bass changes with seal but naturally, a good seal provides the best results. At least for me.


----------



## joseph69

lan647 said:


> To be honest... I can't change the sound of the 007/009 much at all no matter how I twist and turn them on me noggin'. Of course the bass changes with seal but naturally, a good seal provides the best results. At least for me.


 
 Did you pull the cups very slightly off your ears and hear the bass difference?
 It is a nigh/day difference to me.


----------



## Jones Bob

joseph69 said:


> My mistake…credit goes to @Jones Bob




I can't take the credit. Like everything, it all been done before. Got the idea of playing with the SR-009 arc after Spritzer posted about adjusting the SR-007 for "a perfect fit". Could not find further instructions, so I experimented. It's probably what he was doing. As others before him.


----------



## joseph69

jones bob said:


> joseph69 said:
> 
> 
> > My mistake…credit goes to @Jones Bob
> ...


 
 Wel, I thank you anyway.


----------



## Jones Bob

georgep said:


> Thanks for the schematic. But where do you see the assembly for $80?




The whole assembly is shown in exploded format. The only thing not included is the leather head band. 

I bought one "just in case". Saving it in case I ever sell the SR-009.Tats at Stax US was as usual, unresponsive. Ended up buying from a Stax dealer in Hong Kong on a business trip. They bent over backwards trying to help, even though they spoke/wrote very little English. And my guangzhouhua and putonghua is bu hao. Every thing worked out well.


----------



## Jones Bob

lan647 said:


> To be honest... I can't change the sound of the 007/009 much at all no matter how I twist and turn them on me noggin'. Of course the bass changes with seal but naturally, a good seal provides the best results. At least for me.




Ah... there is a difference between "a good seal" and "an optimum seal".


----------



## arnaud

Breaking the seal on the SR007 or SR009 will yield a bass boost (a bump in response between 175-200Hz depending on the model) and bass roll-off below that.
  
 It may be enjoyable initially but not my cup of tea personally. Someone who likes this kind of response should try a grado phone as it may fit their tastes.
  
 Some measurements to illustrate the point ( original post ):


----------



## mulveling

arnaud said:


> Breaking the seal on the SR007 or SR009 will yield a bass boost (a bump in response between 175-200Hz depending on the model) and bass roll-off below that.
> 
> It may be enjoyable initially but not my cup of tea personally. Someone who likes this kind of response should try a grado phone as it may fit their tastes.
> 
> Some measurements to illustrate the point ( original post ):


 
 I tried it last night and yeah, there was more bass but it was horribly boomy and sluggish, which is a no-go here. Best sound by for me is with a normal seal; my head is probably average adult male size in US.


----------



## Jones Bob

Arnaud, I don't see the same conclusion as you do from your posted free air response chart above.

And on the other graphs on the linked post, would you be so kind as to share the conditions that you used to obtain them? A diagram or photo of your setup would help a lot.

By the way, I do not believe anyone is talking of breaking the seal. Only fine tuning and adjusting by ear to optimize (and not go overboard) the fit and SQ preference of a Stax SR-009 to an individual's head. As always.....YMMV.

TIA


----------



## Jones Bob

mulveling said:


> I tried it last night and yeah, there was more bass but it was horribly boomy and sluggish, which is a no-go here. Best sound by for me is with a normal seal; my head is probably average adult male size in US.




Which goes to show we all hear things differently. Glad to see you experimented and found what works for you.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulveling said:


> I tried it last night and yeah, there was more bass but it was horribly boomy and sluggish, which is a no-go here. Best sound by for me is with a normal seal; my head is probably average adult male size in US.


 
  
 Reminds me of the HE1000. Worn normally, it's somewhat bassy, with a subdued type of impact...but with the pads held slightly away, the bass is monstrous.


----------



## joseph69

mulveling said:


> I tried it last night and yeah, there was more bass but it was horribly boomy and sluggish, which is a no-go here. Best sound by for me is with a normal seal; my head is probably average adult male size in US.


 
 IME the bass was incredibly tight/impactful/deep/warm…it just blew me away!
 I didn't "break the seal" in any way, the pads are sill sealed, just with less force. 
 All of my other HP's are Grado, and I'm not hearing a Grado due to this, more like the LCD-X deep type of bass, but not as overwhelming IMO/IME.


----------



## arnaud

jones bob said:


> Arnaud, I don't see the same conclusion as you do from your posted free air response chart above.
> 
> And on the other graphs on the linked post, would you be so kind as to share the conditions that you used to obtain them? A diagram or photo of your setup would help a lot.
> 
> ...




I added a link in my signature. It's was a very basic rig without any compensation, aim was to validate acoustic simulations I was working on... 

The free air resonance is en extreme perhaps but I quickly loose the seal on my phones when I pull them outward. I have small size head though.

 Cheers,
Arnaud


----------



## Jones Bob

arnaud said:


> I added a link in my signature. It's was a very basic rig without any compensation, aim was to validate acoustic simulations I was working on...
> 
> The free air resonance is en extreme perhaps but I quickly loose the seal on my phones when I pull them outward. I have small size head though.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Appreciate the link.
  
 An excellent repeatable measurement methodology. Good science, impressively done!
  
 Did you get a chance to corrolate measurements to perceived response?
  
 That whole post on DIY Electrostatic Headphones will give me A LOT to chew on in the coming days/months.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## mulveling

Got the L700 in today to join my nice little Stax collection: a KGST, two full sized KGSShv, 009, and 007 Mk I. Sources on hand are an Eximus DP1 and NAD M51, driven by an iMac and Audiophilleo 2 with the PSU. I've also had a new Yggdrasil running in for a few days, but just lent it to a friend (and now I wait for the philanthropy awards which are surely headed my way). Also I have a very nice analog setup -- Clearaudio Innovation, Graham Phantom, Koetsu Onyx, Rogue Ares, Cinemag 1131 SUT -- but that's tethered to the big Tannoy Canterbury system and I haven't felt the need to cross-pollinate yet. 
  
 About myself: I'm a hardcore 009 lover. I think that once you get to the KGSShv amp level, this is *the* best headphone. I understand how the warmth of the 007 Mk I is appealing, especially with the BHSE, which is perfectly voiced for it. But the 009 is my ultimate headphone, and when paired with a DIY T2 I think it pushes the limits of what headphones can achieve (best I've ever heard, certainly). I easily prefer the 009 over: Sony R10 (bass heavy and light), Qualia 010, Sennheiser Orpheus he90 w/ hev90, HE1000 (only heard the prototype, but was not terribly impressed), Sennhieser HD800, Grado HP1000, Audio Technica L3000, AKG K1000, etc. I've heard a number of dynamic amps too, in case you were wondering.
  
 I didn't notice any significant burn-in with the 009, so for now I'm operating on the assumption that this also holds with the L700. I started out with my 500V KGSShv, which is the most neutral and resolving of all the KGSShv units I've heard -- and is easily my favored paring for both the 009 and 007 Mk I. To be frank -- with the L700 it yields good sound, with a nice neutral balance, but it's fairly disappointing next to the 009. The L700 is less detailed. The bass is voluminous, but it's slightly bloated and uncontrolled compared to the 009's bass perfection. And some might find the L700's treble slightly less offensive than the 009, but then I'm not one who finds any offense in anything the 009 does (with at least a full-sized KGSShv). The soundstage is just like how I hear other lambdas (I've had the Lambda Pro and Lambda Signature): tall, not great in back-to-font depth, and not particularly wide, but with a stronger left/right division than is optimal. The 009 by comparison is nicely large, spherical, and perfectly uniformly distributed within that space. The L700 midrange is very good (as with all Stax), but slightly hollow and lacking palpability (i.e. mildly soul-less) when compared to the 007 or 009 on the same amp. In short, the 009 w/ KGSShv is superior to the L700 in virtually all aspects, technical and musical.
  
 At this point it was time to try the KGST -- nothing to lose, right? I had to dust the poor damn thing off: the KGST was supposedly designed as a match for the 009, but I found it to be far from that. A nice amp, to be sure, but compared to a KGSShv (or better) it restricts the 009 in detail, soundstage, and bass impact. Its one advantage over the KGSShv is a slightly more organic, palpable midrange -- presumably bequeathed by the tubes. And this lovely midrange was the one reason I held out some hope for an L700 pairing. Still not expecting much, the result was instantly surprising and pleasing! It's a wonderful musical balance. NONE of the relative weaknesses of these two components are additive: neither the detail nor the soundstage of either is reduced further in the pairing. Furthermore, in the case of the bass, it seems as if two wrongs actually make a right: the resultant bass has excellent impact and is nicely controlled to boot. Most interestingly, the midrange of the L700 benefits a LOT from the tubed KGST (more than it benefits the 009), and the result is beautiful. Whereas I feel that the KGST brings the 009 backwards vs. the KGSShv, I also feel that it equally pushes the L700 forward.
 To be clear, the 009 w/ KGSShv is still the better technical performer. However, the L700 w/ KGST is a good technical performer with excellent musicality, and encroaches upon the 009 system there -- in fact I can assure you that some will prefer the L700/KGST, though I don't count myself among them (at least not yet). 
  
 It's only been a few hours so far, but this has been enlightening experience. I think the KGST and L700 is a wonderfully balanced system -- and I would never have guessed that at the start, given the KGSShv's clear superiority over KGST with both 007 and 009. Crappy pics because I'm lazy but hey at least I can show I have this stuff


----------



## arnaud

jones bob said:


> Appreciate the link.
> 
> An excellent repeatable measurement methodology. Good science, impressively done!
> 
> ...




Much appreciate the feedback . This diy stat thread in itself is really neat actually. I did not go very far myself but it was quite instructive already .

Arnaud


----------



## Music Alchemist

Awesome. Possibly my favorite comparison so far! You have my gratitude.


----------



## loligagger

I recognize those two amps at the top.


----------



## mulveling

loligagger said:


> I recognize those two amps at the top.


 
 Indeed -- you build beautiful amps!


----------



## Jones Bob

Impressive first impression, Mulveling.


----------



## purk

loligagger said:


> I recognize those two amps at the top.


 
  They both have a great home that for sure.  Mike is my old pal and he deserves your wonderful sounding KGSSHV/KGST amps.
  
@mulveling 
  
 Thanks for writing.  Great impressions for sure!  I'll let you borrow my Lamba Pro & Signature for a little old school lambda vs. L700 shootout.


----------



## Sorrodje

purk said:


> I'll let you borrow my Lamba Pro & Signature for a little old school lambda vs. L700 shootout.


 
  
  
 I'm VERY insterested in those impressions. Thks in advance for sharing


----------



## thinker

purk said:


> They both have a great home that for sure.  Mike is my old pal and he deserves your wonderful sounding KGSSHV/KGST amps.
> 
> @mulveling
> 
> Thanks for writing.  Great impressions for sure!  I'll let you borrow my Lamba Pro & Signature for a little old school lambda vs. L700 shootout.


 

 I made some comparisons yesterday between sig. and 700, the sig. is airier more open a la 009 more musical or alive and soundstage appear slightly better.I have friends who occasionally have a listen to sig. many prefer sig to 009...hah.
 When you switch from 700 back to sig. i call it music,the sig.is not as balanced as 700 or 009 but who cares...hah.


----------



## mulveling

When I had the Lambda Signature, I only ran it out of a KGSShv. I thought it had some nice features to its sound, but it was just too tipped up for me in the upper part of the spectrum. To be clear, it was not harsh or fatiguing -- all the Stax models I've tried are so clean up top that I don't find them fatiguing, even if the amount of treble energy is more than my preference (heck, I got some listening fatigue after only 15 minutes with the warm sounding HE1000 prototype!). I had the Lambda Pro some time before that, and found it to be a very good match to the same KGSShv (for its used prices I thought the Pro to be a bargain). Driven from a KGSShv, the sonic balance of the L700 is *a lot* closer to that of the Pro. 
  
 That said, I'm pretty stoked now about the musicality of the KGST and how it might match with Stax models other than the 007 and 009. I also think I read here (Ali Pacha?) that the Signature was a lovely match with a Stax tube amp -- I can see how that might be so. I'm definitely a huge fan of the KGSShv, BHSE, DIY T2 amps for the ultimate pursuit of resolution and perfection when paired with 009 (or 007 for those who prefer a warmer sound), but now I can also see the value in other pairings -- very enjoyable, and with still better technical performance than the vast majority of high end dynamic systems in most areas!
  
 And of course I'd like to get all 3 lambdas in at once to more thoroughly explore the differences (thanks Purk!!). 
  
 I'll also state, perhaps to my discredit, that I hear *much* more significant differences amongst electrostatic amps than with DACs (even from one KGSShv to another). It's really a hell of a lot of fun to sort out the nuances of various amps with a good 2 or more Stax headphones. And a proper pairing here is obviously crucial. It's been a LOT less fun to try to sort out the relatively minor differences between the DACs I've tried so far -- as far as I'm concerned the three I have right now are all pretty good sounding (Eximus DP1, NAD M51, Yggy). I know sources can make a hell of a difference, but my experience with them _actually_ making a huge difference has been mostly in the vinyl & speakers world.
  
 Also to my discredit -- I like to listen pretty loud (I don't do it like this every day, and not for long stretches) -- though this probably also helps make amp differences more apparent. I find that Stax are the only headphones where you can listen pretty loud without fatigue.


----------



## Music Alchemist

My heart just skipped a beat.
  
 Sennheiser's new electrostatic headphone system (successor to the legendary Orpheus, out next year) will _actually_ cost...around 50,000 Euros. O_O
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/786512/sennheiser-orpheus-successor-the-sennheiser-he1060-hev1060-first-look
  
 Due to its controversial nature, this will inevitably be nicknamed the "STAX killer" even if some people don't like it as much as the best STAX. My best friend wants it too. haha


----------



## labrat




----------



## Music Alchemist

labrat said:


> You have not put up a new "revised" Whish List for purchases next year already?
> To include this?


 
  
 Nah, everything is in the relevant sections on my profile now.
  
 But guys...if you don't want this thread to be about me, don't _make_ it about me.


----------



## mulveling

This new Sennheiser stuff will force the high-end speaker makers to up their pricing game. I mean we've been at the point of $200K speakers being the new 100K speaker for a good while. Now with $65K+ headphones in the game, the speaker guys are lagging dangerously behind the cutting edge. Nobody in that market segment will want to buy pleb 120K speakers when it's _only_ _twice_ as expensive as some headphones.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulveling said:


> This new Sennheiser stuff will force the high-end speaker makers to up their pricing game. I mean we've been at the point of $200K speakers being the new 100K speaker for a good while. Now with $65K+ headphones in the game, the speaker guys are lagging dangerously behind the cutting edge. Nobody in that market segment will want to buy pleb 120K speakers when it's _only_ _twice_ as expensive as some headphones.


 
  
 I'm honestly glad I prefer headphones over speakers. I've seen speaker systems that cost well over a million dollars.


----------



## edstrelow

I am  dubious about the fact that the new Sennheiser is  "system,"  and curious as to whetherthey  have really come up with a better "headphone" or rather a "system"  where we do not know what is the respective contribution of the parts of the system. Whereas the original Orpheus could be run on other systems, this one may very well not be compatible with other equipment.  As such Sennheiser may not have actually produced a better headphone, but rather a very refined and expensive  "system."
  
 It may very well be that some or all of the apparent quality of this system has more to do with the amp and dac  than with the phones themselves. If it is  not possible to test the phones away from the rest of the system it may be impossible to find out .  Because  the phones have  some kind of built-in amplification in the earcups  we may end up not knowing what is truly going on. 
  
 The use of  amplification in the earcups  is not a new idea,   Koss did this in the 60's with its ESP 6 which had  step-up transformers in the
 earcups.  Not quite identical but a definite conceptual  resemblance.
 .
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/234504/koss-esp6-refurbished-vintage-electrostatics


----------



## potkettleblack

music alchemist said:


> My heart just skipped a beat.
> 
> Sennheiser's new electrostatic headphone system (successor to the legendary Orpheus, out next year) will _actually_ cost...around 50,000 Euros. O_O
> 
> ...



Why don't you hop over to the sennheiser thread? I know you've only heard the HD598, but the new Orpheus is clearly the one for you.


----------



## Music Alchemist

edstrelow said:


> I am  dubious about the fact that the new Sennheiser is  "system,"  and curious as to whetherthey  have really come up with a better "headphone" or rather a "system"  where we do not know what is the respective contribution of the parts of the system. Whereas the original Orpheus could be run on other systems, this one may very well not be compatible with other equipment.  As such Sennheiser may not have actually produced a better headphone, but rather a very refined and expensive  "system."
> 
> It may very well be that some or all of the apparent quality of this system has more to do with the amp and dac  than with the phones themselves. If it is  not possible to test the phones away from the rest of the system it may be impossible to find out .  Because  the phones have  some kind of built-in amplification in the earcups  we may end up not knowing what is truly going on.


 
  
 You raise valid points. The onboard DAC _can_ be bypassed when you connect an external DAC via the analog inputs.
  


potkettleblack said:


> Why don't you hop over to the sennheiser thread? I know you've only heard the HD598, but the new Orpheus is clearly the one for you.


 
  
 While I agree that this thread _should_ be about STAX, and the new Orpheus should be primarily discussed in its own thread, other electrostats are highly relevant and should at least be mentioned, especially something like this.
  
 No, in the HD series, I owned the 280, 590, 650, and 700, and auditioned the 558 and 800. Never heard the 598.


----------



## edstrelow

music alchemist said:


> You raise valid points. The onboard DAC _can_ be bypassed when you connect an external DAC via the analog inputs.


 
 But I don't think the earcup amps can be bypassed.


----------



## Music Alchemist

edstrelow said:


> But I don't think the earcup amps can be bypassed.


 
  
 That is correct. The proprietary system cannot be entirely bypassed.


----------



## labrat




----------



## Music Alchemist

labrat said:


> Have you become the leading expert here on Sennheiser "Orpheus" too?


 
  
 No, I just read the available information and watched the videos too. Anyone who did the same would know that there are amplifiers "integrated directly into the cups of the headphones."


----------



## Yubacore

Get a room, guys.
  
 Mods?


----------



## Jones Bob

A padded room.


----------



## Jones Bob

loligagger said:


> I recognize those two amps at the top. :rolleyes:




Since you are the builder of mulveling's beautiful amps, was wondering if his KGST is based on the earlier group buy PCBs with simple CCS 6S4A loads. Or did you build with the later design with cascode CCS? 

TIA


----------



## loligagger

jones bob said:


> Since you are the builder of mulveling's beautiful amps, was wondering if his KGST is based on the earlier group build PCBs with simple CCS 6S4A loads. Or did you build with the later design with cascode CCS?
> 
> TIA


 

 It's the earlier version of the CCS. The cascode CCS boards are slightly larger. It would be a very tight fit in that chassis.


----------



## zxathlon

Hello guys I need some help.
 I just got a new 727II. When I test the bias voltage I found between R/L to GND they are all above 10V. I believe it shouldn't read like this. The power cord is already grounded. Do I need to adjust the OFFSETS? I am so confused since it is brand new. Is it supposed to be like this? Or I'd better return it for the possibility of part defects? 
  
 Also when I use the bypass mode that 727 offers, even the voltage imbalance between R+/L+ and R-/L- grows large and unbelievably oscillating. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Who knows it? Please help...


----------



## Michgelsen

zxathlon said:


> Hello guys I need some help.
> I just got a new 727II. When I test the bias voltage I found between R/L to GND they are all above 10V. I believe it shouldn't read like this. The power cord is already grounded. Do I need to adjust the OFFSETS? I am so confused since it is brand new. Is it supposed to be like this? Or I'd better return it for the possibility of part defects?
> 
> Also when I use the bypass mode that 727 offers, even the voltage imbalance between R+/L+ and R-/L- grows large and unbelievably oscillating.
> ...


 
  
 10V is not that much in the range of hundreds of volts in which the amp is operating. If you like, you can adjust the offset to compensate, but do so with the amp on for a few hours (with the top already off, so that you don't have to fiddle with that later with the amp on), so that it's fully warmed up and stabilized. When I did this on my SRM-T1, warming up the amp for a few hours helped decrease the oscillating.
 There's no need to return the amp, unless you are unable to adjust the offset to 0V, for example when you max out a trimpot and you still measure more than 10V offset. Then maybe there's something wrong, but I wouldn't worry for now.
  
 I don't know about the imbalance between left and right oscillating. Do you have a source with a steady, for example 60Hz, test tone connected? Or could it be your multimeter that's not measuring steadily?


----------



## Tinkerer

zxathlon said:


> Hello guys I need some help.
> I just got a new 727II. When I test the bias voltage I found between R/L to GND they are all above 10V. I believe it shouldn't read like this. The power cord is already grounded. Do I need to adjust the OFFSETS? I am so confused since it is brand new. Is it supposed to be like this? Or I'd better return it for the possibility of part defects?
> 
> Also when I use the bypass mode that 727 offers, even the voltage imbalance between R+/L+ and R-/L- grows large and unbelievably oscillating.
> ...


 
  
 Seconding that you should definitely make sure you let it warm up for a couple hours before measurements. They can drift a bit.


----------



## chinsettawong

It's normal that the output DC drifting somewhat. I wouldn't worry about 10-20V drifting.


----------



## hpeter

frankcooter said:


> So here is my contribution: a DHT based electrostatic headphone amp. As far as I can tell, this is uncharted territory.  I'll be posting full schematics in the next few days, will take part in any discussion anyone wishes, and will do my best to answer all questions.


 
 Hey man, that´s awesome! I think we have  common taste, interested to hear more about component selection.
 Are those a 845 or 211 Shuguangs ?? Power supply on left? Not familiar with those tubes.


----------



## okw3188

My SRM-727A measures about 3V on both channel after turning on for 2 hours.


----------



## soren_brix

okw3188 said:


> My SRM-727A measures about 3V on both channel after turning on for 2 hours.


 
 < 10V offset is no biggi


----------



## preproman

Having a really good session with this:


----------



## soren_brix

preproman said:


> Having a really good session with this:


 
  


preproman said:


> Having a really good session with this:


 
 Chick and Herbie are always good company ;o)


----------



## ctemkin

preproman said:


> Having a really good session with this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## kugino

anyone here try the l500? it's about the same price as a 507...wondering which sounds better...


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

I wish someone would review the L500, I'm gagging to hear about them.  Also the L500 will be much cheaper than the 507 and hopefully much better.


----------



## preproman

ctemkin said:


>


 
  
 The amp is the Cavalli Audio Liquid Lightning 2T (Solid State) 
  
 The support unit comes from Ikea Furniture.  It's really cheap..


----------



## Rhamnetin

Has anyone ever compared the Liquid Lightning 2T (tube hybrid one) to the HeadAmp Blue Hawaii SE?  I'm guessing the Cavalli is a bit warmer and more forgiving but I'd like to know.


----------



## kugino

vgoghs earfrmsc said:


> I wish someone would review the L500, I'm gagging to hear about them.  Also the L500 will be much cheaper than the 507 and hopefully much better.


on pricejapan the l500 and 507 are about the same price...to the USA at least...


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> Having a really good session with this:


 
  
 Beautiful setup! I love the all-black motif!


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

Yes PJ does even it up a bit, on E-bay there's a pair of 507s for £550 plus £12 for p&p, and a used pair for £595, for heavens sake.


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

Yes PJ does even it up a bit, on E-bay there's a pair of 507s for £550 plus £12 for p&p, and a used pair for £595, for heavens sake.


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

kugino said:


> on pricejapan the l500 and 507 are about the same price...to the USA at least...



 

Goes with post above 7109


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

kugino said:


> on pricejapan the l500 and 507 are about the same price...to the USA at least...



 

Goes with post above 7109


----------



## ctemkin

preproman said:


> The amp is the Cavalli Audio Liquid Lightning 2T (Solid State)
> 
> The support unit comes from Ikea Furniture.  It's really cheap..


 

 It is probably a violation of the spirit of this particular forum, but the support unit's being really cheap doesn't mean that it won't work for me.  Are you happy with it?  Is it sturdy?
  
 Thanks for the information.


----------



## kugino

ctemkin said:


> It is probably a violation of the spirit of this particular forum, but the support unit's being really cheap doesn't mean that it won't work for me.  Are you happy with it?  Is it sturdy?
> 
> Thanks for the information.


 
 with the gear preproman has, i'm pretty sure he wouldn't trust something unstable/unsteady...so i think it's more than sturdy enough


----------



## preproman

ctemkin said:


> It is probably a violation of the spirit of this particular forum, but the support unit's being really cheap doesn't mean that it won't work for me.  Are you happy with it?  Is it sturdy?
> 
> Thanks for the information.


 

 Yes, works really well.  By cheap - I mean the price is very good.


----------



## ctemkin

Preproman,
  
 Sorry to keep asking questions, but I didn't see the support unit on Ikea's website.  Do you remember what it was called?
  
 Thanks again.


----------



## preproman

ctemkin said:


> Preproman,
> 
> Sorry to keep asking questions, but I didn't see the support unit on Ikea's website.  Do you remember what it was called?
> 
> Thanks again.


 
  
 Going to PM.


----------



## wink

Going to pot...      oops, this thread, I mean.


----------



## thinker

The new 323X is excellent match with L-700  very musical full sounding combo but with SR-009 it's not as good


----------



## Rhamnetin

thinker said:


> The new 323X is excellent match with L-700  very musical full sounding combo but with SR-009 it's not as good


 
  
 353X.  But that's good to know, since I'm going to be getting either the 353X or 323S which are basically the same thing anyway according to spritzer and others (the 353X just offers balanced input).


----------



## thinker

rhamnetin said:


> 353X.  But that's good to know, since I'm going to be getting either the 353X or 323S which are basically the same thing anyway according to spritzer and others (the 353X just offers balanced input).


 
 The 323x is slightly different it's an improvet version of 323s,Spritzer belongs to Stax Mafia so you can take some reservations what he says


----------



## Jones Bob

thinker said:


> The 323x is slightly different it's an improvet version of 323s,Spritzer belongs to Stax Mafia so you can take some reservations what he says




Eh? You gotta problem with Mr. Spritzer? What do you say we's take a ride in the Cadillac limo outside. That's an offer you can't refuse bub, or his wise guys will gladly do some persuadin' .


----------



## wink

When you're dealing with the top echelon of electrostatic design and manufacture, the normal Stax amps, excluding the T2, are just not there as far as performance goes.
  
 Don't get me wrong, I own a 323S, and used in isolation, I really like it.
 But........... In comparison to a KGSSHV, BHSE or DIYT2, it just doesn't cut it.


----------



## Rhamnetin

wink said:


> When you're dealing with the top echelon of electrostatic design and manufacture, the normal Stax amps, excluding the T2, are just not there as far as performance goes.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I own a 323S, and used in isolation, I really like it.
> But........... In comparison to a KGSSHV, BHSE or DIYT2, it just doesn't cut it.


 
  
 Yeah... too bad top tier electrostat amps will be out of my price range for a long time.  I'll have to stick with the 323S or 353X for a while.


----------



## lojay

Just curious, how does the BHSE compare to the T2? What are the differences between the two?


----------



## mulveling

rhamnetin said:


> Yeah... too bad top tier electrostat amps will be out of my price range for a long time.  I'll have to stick with the 323S or 353X for a while.


 
 Why? Troll the used FS forums often and you may be surprised what comes up. If you can afford an L700, you can afford a good used amp. That said, I have not tried a Lambda series with 323. But a 007 or 009 paired with 323 is definitely not a great match; it squanders the talents of those headphones.


----------



## mulveling

lojay said:


> Just curious, how does the BHSE compare to the T2? What are the differences between the two?


 
 A good DIY T2 is more better in every way. Furthermore, the BHSE paired with 009 can be a bit on the bright side -- and puts much more pressure on you to pair it with a warm source, or at least one that is neutral and VERY smooth up top. The BHSE is still such a good performer that it shines above lesser amps despite the brightness tendencies -- but the T2 with 009 is perfect. The 007 Mk I w/ BHSE is also an epic pairing, though the T2 is still better (though not by nearly as much as with the 009).


----------



## mulveling

.
 My bad guys, I replied to myself instead of editing a post. Girl troubles!!
  
 Stax rules, eh??


----------



## lojay

mulveling said:


> A good DIY T2 is more better in every way. Furthermore, the BHSE paired with 009 can be a bit on the bright side -- and puts much more pressure on you to pair it with a warm source, or at least one that is neutral and VERY smooth up top. The BHSE is still such a good performer that it shines above lesser amps despite the brightness tendencies -- but the T2 with 009 is perfect. The 007 Mk I w/ BHSE is also an epic pairing, though the T2 is still better (though not by nearly as much as with the 009).


 
  
 Thanks Mulveling. Is this immediately noticeable? I do not feel that the T2/SR009 pairing is bright at all, though I have read accounts of brightness (from a Thailand meet) with an unknown DAC/source. No brightness at all with my MSB Analog.  
  
 That said, I do think that my dynamic rig is slightly less fatiguing than the electrostatic rig. There is less detail and less engagement. The SR009's front row/intimate presentation can be fatiguing at times.
  
 Next step- tube rolling.


----------



## joseph69

mulveling said:


> Troll the used FS forums often and you may be surprised what comes up. talents of those headphones.


 
 This is exactly what I did. I think it took me 2-days watching the F/S forums and I found a beautiful full size KGSSHV (spritzer build).


----------



## mulveling

lojay said:


> Thanks Mulveling. Is this immediately noticeable? I do not feel that the T2/SR009 pairing is bright at all, though I have read accounts of brightness (from a Thailand meet) with an unknown DAC/source. No brightness at all with my MSB Analog.
> 
> That said, I do think that my dynamic rig is slightly less fatiguing than the electrostatic rig. There is less detail and less engagement. The SR009's front row/intimate presentation can be fatiguing at times.
> 
> Next step- tube rolling.


 
 Wait, you have a DIY T2 and an MSB Analog DAC, and you're asking about BHSE? I would kill a man for your setup!! But everyone's ears are different, and if you find fatigue with that I don't think there's a good chance to find relief with the BHSE, unless there is a problem with the T2 or the tubes are just awful (some Russian EL34 can be bright, in my experience with them in speaker amps) -- yes the BHSE is brighter than the DIY T2 I heard, with 009. Personally, I experience fatigue with a number of dynamic/planar models, but not with Stax -- even when they are bright.


----------



## lojay

mulveling said:


> Wait, you have a DIY T2 and an MSB Analog DAC, and you're asking about BHSE? I would kill a man for your setup!! But everyone's ears are different, and if you find fatigue with that I don't think there's a good chance to find relief with the BHSE, unless there is a problem with the T2 or the tubes are just awful (some Russian EL34 can be bright, in my experience with them in speaker amps) -- yes the BHSE is brighter than the DIY T2 I heard, with 009. Personally, I experience fatigue with a number of dynamic/planar models, but not with Stax -- even when they are bright.


 
  
 As I said, I was curious... the builder for my T2 never heard a BHSE so I couldn't ask from him.
 I was originally in the BHSE queue but I had a chance to get a T2 built. That was a no-brainer for me. Justin did give me a quick refund, so kudos to him.
 Perhaps that is the problem. I'm using Russian made rebranded Mullards at the moment. 
  
 Dynamic/planar models can sound bright, but the brightness can be ameliorated (in my case, completely) by modding. Still, they don't have that degree of engagement and technical superiority of the SR009.


----------



## purk

lojay said:


> As I said, I was curious... the builder for my T2 never heard a BHSE so I couldn't ask from him.
> I was originally in the BHSE queue but I had a chance to get a T2 built. That was a no-brainer for me. Justin did give me a quick refund, so kudos to him.
> Perhaps that is the problem. I'm using Russian made rebranded Mullards at the moment.
> 
> Dynamic/planar models can sound bright, but the brightness can be ameliorated (in my case, completely) by modding. Still, they don't have that degree of engagement and technical superiority of the SR009.


 
 Man step up to some real NOS tubes for your T2 and you won't look back.  I personally can't identify any weakness on the T2 beside it can gets hot.


----------



## Rhamnetin

mulveling said:


> Why? Troll the used FS forums often and you may be surprised what comes up. If you can afford an L700, you can afford a good used amp. That said, I have not tried a Lambda series with 323. But a 007 or 009 paired with 323 is definitely not a great match; it squanders the talents of those headphones.


 
  
 Yeah I've been keeping an eye on the FS forums.  My budget for an amp is under $1000, although I actually did just find something particularly interesting in the FS forums that I'll have to follow up on. 
  
 All this talk of the BHSE vs the T2... I really need to hear the SR-009 on a T2 with good tubes and a good DAC.  I think the SR-009 + BHSE combo I heard was perfect, I could never ask for more out of headphones.


----------



## Jones Bob

Any opinions how the KGSSHV Carbon relates to the BHSE and T2?


----------



## purk

rhamnetin said:


> Yeah I've been keeping an eye on the FS forums.  My budget for an amp is under $1000, although I actually did just find something particularly interesting in the FS forums that I'll have to follow up on.
> 
> All this talk of the BHSE vs the T2... I really need to hear the SR-009 on a T2 with good tubes and a good DAC.  I think the SR-009 + BHSE combo I heard was perfect, I could never ask for more out of headphones.


 
 The T2 is sweeter sounding of the two amps.  It is more resolving in details and able to represent the sound in a more relaxed fashion.  The bass hits deeper and soundstage goes deeper.
  


jones bob said:


> Any opinions how the KGSSHV Carbon relates to the BHSE and T2?


 
 Hopefully soon.  My Carbon should land in the next 4-6 weeks.  mulveling and I have the same builder and I'm sure that he will stop by to do a side by side comparison between the T2, BHSE, and KGSSHV carbon and post some impressions then.


----------



## astrostar59

lojay said:


> As I said, I was curious... the builder for my T2 never heard a BHSE so I couldn't ask from him.
> I was originally in the BHSE queue but I had a chance to get a T2 built. That was a no-brainer for me. Justin did give me a quick refund, so kudos to him.
> Perhaps that is the problem. I'm using Russian made rebranded Mullards at the moment.
> 
> Dynamic/planar models can sound bright, but the brightness can be ameliorated (in my case, completely) by modding. Still, they don't have that degree of engagement and technical superiority of the SR009.


 

 Hello lojay
 If the BHSE experience with tube rolling is going to apply to the T2, then I would STRONGLY suggest trying tube rolling in earnest. I have heard David61's BHSE with stock mullard re-issies, and then NOS XF4. The difference is big, especially in the treble department. It just sounds more sophisticated and cleaner, less technical. more real with NOS Mullard.
  
 The thing is with the T2, it has double the tubes, i.e. 4 tubes on the first stage I believe, then the same 4 x EL34s on the final stage. The T2 is thus more tube design than the BHSE. This should allow much more tweaking of the sound and getting it just right for your system IMO. I don't think the MSB Analogue is overly bright? So basically you need to concentrate on tube selection in the T2. Do the smaller 4 tubes first, as they are cheaper, get the best you can for those. Then when that is close, do the big EL34s.
  
 I have an SS KGSSHv, but have tweaked the sound of my system a LOT by rolling tubes in my DAC. It has 2 tubes in the power supply, and 2 in the output stage. What surprised me a lot was rolling the smallest tube in the power supply to a NOS Mullard, that had a big difference in the level of treble energy and midrange sweetness. That tube cost me £35 and made a massive difference to my whole system (in a positive way).
  
 Hope this helps you.....


----------



## Rhamnetin

purk said:


> The T2 is sweeter sounding of the two amps.  It is more resolving in details and able to represent the sound in a more relaxed fashion.  The bass hits deeper and soundstage goes deeper.
> 
> Hopefully soon.  My Carbon should land in the next 4-6 weeks.  mulveling and I have the same builder and I'm sure that he will stop by to do a side by side comparison between the T2, BHSE, and KGSSHV carbon and post some impressions then.


 
  
 Thanks.  More resolving and sweeter/more relaxed at the same time?  Interesting.  I look forward to your comparison with the Carbon as well.


----------



## RAZRr1275

Does anyone know a good place to source a SRD-7 with a pro bias output rather than the usual places like here or ebay? They seem kinda difficult to find since the market is saturated with normal bias ones. I'm looking for something to drive my Koss ESP-950 better with and was looking at a SRD-7 and Parasound Zamp setup


----------



## thinker

update: the new SRM-323X sounds excellent with SR-009,very extended smooth highs not harsh at all very open with quite large soundstage/XLR and tremendous amount of details definitely better that 727


----------



## labrat




----------



## Music Alchemist

purk said:


> The T2 is sweeter sounding of the two amps.  It is more resolving in details and able to represent the sound in a more relaxed fashion.  The bass hits deeper and soundstage goes deeper.
> 
> Hopefully soon.  My Carbon should land in the next 4-6 weeks.  mulveling and I have the same builder and I'm sure that he will stop by to do a side by side comparison between the T2, BHSE, and KGSSHV carbon and post some impressions then.


 
  
 In your opinion, which has better dynamics and a more accurate level of "relaxation": the DIY T2 or BHSE?
  
 Did you test this with all genres or only a few?
  
 (I listen to just about all types of music and can't stand overly laid-back sound.)
  


thinker said:


> update: the new SRM-323X sounds excellent with SR-009,very extended smooth highs not harsh at all very open with quite large soundstage/XLR and tremendous amount of details definitely better that 727


 
  
 Have you compared the SRM-353X to the SRM-323S with the SR-009? Are you one of those people who thinks the SRM-323S sounds bad with the SR-009? Which other amps have you heard the SR-009 with? (I don't recall and wanted better context.)


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> (I listen to just about all types of music and can't stand overly laid-back sound.)


 
  
 You're going to have to pick both your DAC and amp carefully.  I see you are being very methodical about the latter.  I know you want the Yggdrasil, it seems like it would pair better with something a bit more laid back than the BHSE based on its reputation (or rather my memory of its reputation).


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> You're going to have to pick both your DAC and amp carefully.  I see you are being very methodical about the latter.  I know you want the Yggdrasil, it seems like it would pair better with something a bit more laid back than the BHSE based on its reputation (or rather my memory of its reputation).


 
  
 My only real concern in this context is that the sound isn't _too_ laid-back. I don't mind if it sounds energetic, as long as it's not bright and harsh when the recording isn't that way. I want ultimate accuracy, however that may be achieved.


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> My only real concern in this context is that the sound isn't _too_ laid-back. I don't mind if it sounds energetic, as long as it's not bright and harsh when the recording isn't that way. I want ultimate accuracy, however that may be achieved.


 
  
 It is worth considering that the T2 uses more tubes than the BHSE and may allow for greater fine tuning of the sound.  Perhaps you can get it to sound right where you want it.


----------



## mulveling

My first impressions of the Yggy with Stax are that it's very very detailed and not bright, but there is a bit of something going on the the upper mids that makes it harder to listen to with less-than-stellar recordings. My other local audiophile friend (not Purk, who gets the Yggy next) calls this a "shoutiness", I call it a slight "hardness". He said it's dissipated a bit with continued run-in, but I'm sceptic of the transformational run-in claims. Also, I wish for more bass impact. Everything else about it is great (e.g. big soundstage), so I'm holding out hope for this one. I get it back tonight.
  
 And T2 -- dude, don't worry about it being too laid back. Just worry about finding a good one for sale. There is nothing yet I've heard from it that could be interpreted as any less than audio bliss.


----------



## purk

music alchemist said:


> My only real concern in this context is that the sound isn't _too_ laid-back. I don't mind if it sounds energetic, as long as it's not bright and harsh when the recording isn't that way. I want ultimate accuracy, however that may be achieved.


 
 Not too laid-back for sure.  It just sound more organic and delicate compared to "sharp" & "focus" sound of the BHSE while able to render space between each instrument better.  Soundstage is deeper and wider with better layering as well.  It also render imaging better than  the BHSE.  It is an ultimate amplifier that bring out the very best in all of electrostatic headphones.  For instance, the BHSE isn't able to drive the HE90 as well as the HEV90 but the T2 completely exceeded the HEV90 by a noticeable margin.  And please don't confuse the T2 as being diffused as it isn't the case here.  Good luck finding one though.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mulveling said:


> And T2 -- dude, don't worry about it being too laid back. Just worry about finding a good one for sale. There is nothing yet I've heard from it that could be interpreted as any less than audio bliss.


 


purk said:


> Not too laid-back for sure.  It just sound more organic and delicate compared to "sharp" & "focus" sound of the BHSE while able to render space between each instrument better.  Soundstage is deeper and wider with better layering as well.  It also render imaging better than  the BHSE.  It is an ultimate amplifier that bring out the very best in all of electrostatic headphones.  For instance, the BHSE isn't able to drive the HE90 as well as the HEV90 but the T2 completely exceeded the HEV90 by a noticeable margin.  And please don't confuse the T2 as being diffused as it isn't the case here.  Good luck finding one though.


 
  
 Very helpful, thank you. Do either of you happen to know about the best tubes for the DIY T2? @TheAttorney told me that the EL34 Philips Miniwatt Holland metal base tubes were the best-sounding ones he's heard with the BHSE.


----------



## lojay

purk said:


> Man step up to some real NOS tubes for your T2 and you won't look back.  I personally can't identify any weakness on the T2 beside it can gets hot.


 

  
 Quote:


purk said:


> Not too laid-back for sure.  It just sound more organic and delicate compared to "sharp" & "focus" sound of the BHSE while able to render space between each instrument better.  Soundstage is deeper and wider with better layering as well.  It also render imaging better than  the BHSE.  It is an ultimate amplifier that bring out the very best in all of electrostatic headphones.  For instance, the BHSE isn't able to drive the HE90 as well as the HEV90 but the T2 completely exceeded the HEV90 by a noticeable margin.  And please don't confuse the T2 as being diffused as it isn't the case here.  Good luck finding one though.


 
  
 I am using Telefunken diamond E88CC's from Jacmusic, who has been supplying me with the best new production / NOS tubes for a number of years. He doesn't sell any EL34s apart from Tesla's so I will need to look to eBay or local sellers. Unfortunately, there seems to be an abundance of EL34 fakes or used tubes marketed as "NOS". Have you got a reputable source I could rely on? 
  
 I agree that the sound of the T2 is absolutely organic. Purk, are you saying that the BHSE has sharper edges and better definition than the DIYT2? While I think the sonic cues and images on the T2 + SR009 sound more "solid" and "real" than any other amp I have heard before, there is no denying that the EC 445 + HD800 has sharper edges around instruments. Of course, excessive sharpness can sound unnatural and usually is not a good thing. I just wonder how the BHSE and T2 both fare in the "sharpness" aspect.


----------



## purk

lojay said:


> I am using Telefunken diamond E88CC's from Jacmusic, who has been supplying me with the best new production / NOS tubes for a number of years. He doesn't sell any EL34s apart from Tesla's so I will need to look to eBay or local sellers. Unfortunately, there seems to be an abundance of EL34 fakes or used tubes marketed as "NOS". Have you got a reputable source I could rely on?
> 
> I agree that the sound of the T2 is absolutely organic. *Purk, are you saying that the BHSE has sharper edges and better definition than the DIYT2?* While I think the sonic cues and images on the T2 + SR009 sound more "solid" and "real" than any other amp I have heard before, there is no denying that the EC 445 + HD800 has sharper edges around instruments. Of course, excessive sharpness can sound unnatural and usually is not a good thing. I just wonder how the BHSE and T2 both fare in the "sharpness" aspect.


 
 Yes, the BHSE has slightly sharper edge and "brighter" compared to the DIY T2.  However, I'm not saying that it is better.  Some may prefer it but overall presentation belong to the DIY T2 that's for sure.  I totally agreed with your on the sonic cues and images on the DIY T2 + SR009.  It just sound more "live" and "there" than anything else that I've tried.  Another amp that able to pull this off is the Single Power SDS-XLR.


----------



## thinker

music alchemist said:


> In your opinion, which has better dynamics and a more accurate level of "relaxation": the DIY T2 or BHSE?
> 
> Did you test this with all genres or only a few?
> 
> ...


 
 Yes i have the 323s it's not bad with 009 it's quite good but the 323X is a advanced version of 323S i would say it's more musical fuller mids, soundstage is larger with XLR connection and the mids are balanced,highs are not piercing maybe almost invisible like on the L-700 headphone.Bass hit's quite low also in very balanced way and ​somehow the x is smoother than s the x is also very liquid there is nothing wich pulls my attention wich i don't like.The x also sounds more powerfull and dynamics are increased.First i thought that it's not good with 009 and was hearing in upper mids some pronaunce but this has settled down maybe burn in or something else.Like the L-700 is a grown up Lambda the same_​ with X it's grown up amp from the Stax amp line up_


----------



## lojay

purk said:


> Yes, the BHSE has slightly sharper edge and "brighter" compared to the DIY T2.  However, I'm not saying that it is better.  Some may prefer it but overall presentation belong to the DIY T2 that's for sure.  I totally agreed with your on the sonic cues and images on the DIY T2 + SR009.  It just sound more "live" and "there" than anything else that I've tried.  Another amp that able to pull this off is the Single Power SDS-XLR.


 Hmmm I might need to get the BHSE one day. I like "sharpness" for some types of music, like orchestral works or electronica. But then I have my HD800 for that. 

All in all, I must say the T2 is really something to behold. I hope the upgraded tubes will help add to resolution and clarity (not that I feel these aspects are lacking in any way).


----------



## Music Alchemist

thinker said:


> Yes i have the 323s is not bad with 009 it's quite good but the 323X is a advanced version of 323S i would say it's more musical fuller mids, soundstage is larger with XLR connection and the mids are balanced,highs are not piercing maybe almost invisible like on the L-700 headphone.Bass hit's quite low also in very balanced way and ​somehow the x is smoother than s the x is also very liquid there is nothing wich pulls my attention wich i don't like.The x also sounds more powerfull and dynamics are increased.First i thought that it's not good with 009 and was hearing in upper mids some pronaunce but this has settled down maybe burn in or something else.Like the L-700 is a grown up Lambda the same_​ with X it's grown up amp from the Stax amp line up_


 
  
 Thanks for the info. Looks like a good starter amp for the SR-009, then. But the name is SRM-3_5_3X, not SRM-3_2_3X.


----------



## thinker

music alchemist said:


> Thanks for the info. Looks like a good starter amp for the SR-009, then. But the name is SRM-3_5_3X, not SRM-3_2_3X.


 
 I have been rolling amps from other brands with Stax phones but i like to stick with Stax amps because i want to keep the original Stax sound there is some wickedness in it particularly with 353X.The L-700 headphone sounds couple of days little bit dark but opens up soon after that,the midrange of this phone is magical but of course you have to have a good source to reach that point


----------



## mulveling

lojay said:


> I am using Telefunken diamond E88CC's from Jacmusic, who has been supplying me with the best new production / NOS tubes for a number of years. He doesn't sell any EL34s apart from Tesla's so I will need to look to eBay or local sellers. Unfortunately, there seems to be an abundance of EL34 fakes or used tubes marketed as "NOS". Have you got a reputable source I could rely on?
> 
> I agree that the sound of the T2 is absolutely organic. Purk, are you saying that the BHSE has sharper edges and better definition than the DIYT2? While I think the sonic cues and images on the T2 + SR009 sound more "solid" and "real" than any other amp I have heard before, there is no denying that the EC 445 + HD800 has sharper edges around instruments. Of course, excessive sharpness can sound unnatural and usually is not a good thing. I just wonder how the BHSE and T2 both fare in the "sharpness" aspect.


 
 Are those E88CC's vintage German, or the "Black Diamond" made by JJ? I think you mean the former, but if the latter I'd definitely look into vintage. And as for fake EL34 -- simply familiarize yourself with the genuine Mullard/Amperex/Phillips construction, as the "counterfeits" are just superficial re-labels of less valuable tubes. They can't copy the construction's features and quality. First thing you're looking for is a glass bottle that's almost exactly the same diameter as the base. And event to top of the tube has a flattened curvature and smoothness that's unlike modern production. The internals are substantial and every part within them is placed aesthetically and consistently -- these old tubes simply ooze quality and attention to detail. Then look at the Russian tubes with a high incidence of crooked bottles and/or plates, lol (certain re-issue brands are much better though). Plenty of detailed pics online, and this is the best way to make sure you're getting the tube you paid for.
  
 I dunno man, it sounds like you're looking for a reason to justify the BHSE vs. T2 because you want one -- and I don't blame you as the casework is stunning. I have a lot less experience comparing the two vs. someone like Purk, so I should defer to him, but so far I just can't find anything about it sonically that tackles the DIY T2. The BHSE is a bit brighter, so if you're looking for that then maybe -- but I can't see that being a good move on a 009-based system. And this is not really a knock on the BHSE -- it's a LOT more affordable than a DIY T2, and it was released in the time of 007 Mk I, before the 009, the former of which it is a PERFECT voicing match for. 
  
 Also I can see what you're getting at with the "sharpness" of the HD800. And I can somewhat understand the appeal to that, but for me it's no-go because it does strike me as unnatural compared to the 009. I probably wouldn't say the BHSE will give you much more sharpness though, just more brightness...but again I think I'm due for a re-listen of the two amps.


----------



## mulveling

Hmm, so I'm not sure that the Yggy is an ideal match for the 009. We all know how the 009 has a bit of a shelf upwards starting in the upper mid/lower treble region. Well, the Yggy has just a touch of shoutiness in around this area. It's not bad, and I'm waiting to see if it further subsides with burn-in. And the detail rendered by the Yggy combined with a 009 (KGSShv or better amp) is thrilling to hear. But the net result is that some recordings are fantastic and others (mainly the average or less than stellar pop/rock/metal recordings) are still more enjoyable on the Eximus DP1 (with 192k up-sampling engaged) or M51, despite the step backwards in resolution.
  
 However the Yggy is a GREAT match for the KGST/L700 system; it gels right in there perfectly, and the detail boost provided by the Yggy is very nice. Just to be clear though, a Yggy/KGST/L700 is still decisively out-resolved by a Eximus/KGSShv/009 system. The two systems are both really enjoyable as all hell, each in their own ways.
  
 Now kind of curious how the 007 Mk I does with the Yggy/KGSShv -- seems like it would a a great pairing. But the 007 don't get much love from me these days


----------



## Rhamnetin

The Yggy + SR-009 may be okay with a more laid back amp (I wouldn't know), but with the BHSE I'd shoot for the Ayre Acoustics QB-9 to counteract the brighter, edgier BHSE and SR-009 sound.


----------



## Music Alchemist

thinker said:


> I have been rolling amps from other brands with Stax phones but i like to stick with Stax amps because i want to keep the original Stax sound there is some wickedness in it particularly with 353X.The L-700 headphone sounds couple of days little bit dark but opens up soon after that,the midrange of this phone is magical but of course you have to have a good source to reach that point


 
  
 Which aftermarket amps have you listened to with the SR-009? If you've heard some of the best high-end ones, I'm surprised you still prefer STAX amps.
  


mulveling said:


> We all know how the 009 has a bit of a shelf upwards starting in the upper mid/lower treble region.


 
  
 Where?
  

  
 I don't see it. It follows the (mislabeled) green line quite closely and is even recessed slightly at a few frequencies. (Of course, it's _supposed_ to curve upwards at certain points.)
  


rhamnetin said:


> The Yggy + SR-009 may be okay with a more laid back amp (I wouldn't know), but with the BHSE I'd shoot for the Ayre Acoustics QB-9 to counteract the brighter, edgier BHSE and SR-009 sound.


 
  
 Or just use EQ...for free. You'd have to use EQ anyway if you want the frequency response to be as accurate as possible.


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> Or just use EQ...for free. You'd have to use EQ anyway if you want the frequency response to be as accurate as possible.


 
  
 EQ can only do so much and there is no guarantee whether or not you'll find desirable results.  Tube rolling is at least an option for both amps in question too.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> EQ can only do so much and there is no guarantee whether or not you'll find desirable results.  Tube rolling is at least an option for both amps in question too.


 
  
 True, but we're talking about making things less laid-back or more laid-back, depending on preference. This can be achieved via EQ. I'm not saying that's the only or the best option, of course. But I'd rather not collect a bunch of DACs for that purpose. Like I said, I don't mind energy; I just don't want too much treble, and reducing the treble with EQ is a trivial matter.


----------



## edstrelow

I like what people are saying about the SRL700. Could be a fantastic phone with the sorbothane damping I have used on older Lamdas. Even more interesting, I still have an old low bias Sigma. I wonder if Tats at Yamasinc would be willing to install the drivers from this phone into the Sigmas, as he did for me for the first Sigma/404? I would add the sorb. It would be Sigma/700(S)


----------



## McNubbins

I'm looking at putting together either an SR-L700 or SR-009 system eventually...

I have an Audio-gd NFB-1 (based on the Sabre ES9018) that I currently pair with Ultrasone headphones. The Ultrasones have a reputation for brightness and so does the ES9018, but all I hear is clarity when the recording is decent.

Does anyone care to speculate whether my current DAC would hold back a KGSSHV + SR-009 or SR-L700 system?


----------



## Rayzilla

jones bob said:


> ...Ended up buying from a Stax dealer in Hong Kong on a business trip. They bent over backwards trying to help, even though they spoke/wrote very little English. And my guangzhouhua and putonghua is bu hao. Every thing worked out well.


 
 Do you recall which shop in Hong Kong you purchased the leather strap from? Just wondering...


----------



## astrostar59

LoJay
  
 How long have you run the T2? IMO the caps in the PS and other parts will need 4-8 weeks to born in easy.
  
 As I said in a previous post, try upgrading the smaller tubes first, they will make a big difference. Then when you are happy
 with those, try an EL34 NOS set. I would think NOS Mullards will calm the top end and give a great mid-range. If you want more top end transparency
 you may need to try Sylvanias or RCAs for example. Realise a full set of NOS EL34 is not cheap, but they will IMO take it to another level (as it should sound).


----------



## Jones Bob

rayzilla said:


> Do you recall which shop in Hong Kong you purchased the leather strap from? Just wondering...




I purchased the SR-009 arc assembly, not the leather headband from Steven Tsang at:

http://www.stax.co.jp/Export/Distributor-HongKong.html

I emailed and made arrangements first.

Pretty sure they can get any Stax part. English is minimal, but really go out of thier way to help. Good people.


----------



## paradoxper

Way late to the party, but congrats on your freakin' badass T2, Jason! I'm jelly.


----------



## soren_brix

edstrelow said:


> I wonder if Tats at Yamasinc would be willing to install the drivers from this phone into the Sigmas, as he did for me for the first Sigma/404? I would add the sorb. It would be Sigma/700(S)


 
 Probably not - isn't the new driver construction similar to th x07's (apart from the stators) ?


----------



## Jones Bob

Finally got back home from a business trip last Friday to find my delivered SR-L700 earspeakers. 

First impressions listening to them: very nice!


----------



## edstrelow

soren_brix said:


> Probably not - isn't the new driver construction similar to th x07's (apart from the stators) ?


 
 I have not seen that design. Do the parts just clip together? That would seem pretty casual for a good stat design.
  
 I am thinking about Tatts again because he has just put a new cord in my 404(S). You have probably not had to deal with the US distributors but they are pretty erratic at times. However he was pretty good this time and since my youngest graduates college in May, there may be some money available for new directions in headphones..
  
 I am not that impressed by the SR009 compared to the Sr007 . It was not as good as the SR007(S)  although I suspect it would be better sorbed. And its price has come down a lot in US dollars. Still I think that if you could give a Sigma a more even frequency response and a tad better definition, you would have the world's best headphone, even compared to Senn's new effort, which is still just a conventional circumaural phone.


----------



## potkettleblack

jones bob said:


> Finally got back home from a business trip last Friday to find my delivered SR-L700 earspeakers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 https://33.media.tumblr.com/7fdf6e6ffea8c93de68e51a0d729a0b6/tumblr_mo6xnjso1U1s1k7bmo1_500.gif


----------



## thinker

Removed original pads from L-700 and installed old Lambda pads instead like it much more it's clearer cleaner with more soundstage now it sounds almost equal or better than 009.The 353 amp sounds better with RCA input


----------



## vapman

ufospls2 said:


> If one was to buy a SRM-323S from PJ as a cheap means of driving a 009 whilst saving for a TOTL amp, would you require a step down transformer to run it off 120V mains? I know it says 100V only on the rear, but some people say the 20v difference makes no difference and it is fine to run without a transformer, while some say the transformer is necessary. Also, does anyone here have any experience with the 323S driving the 009? It seems like it would be the cheapest decent option as a stand in whilst recovering from a 009 purchase, until being able to afford something good from the used section.


 

 You can run a 100V amp off of 120V AC. It will run warm though and add a little stress to the transformer as it has to pull down ~125v to ~100 instead of ~110 to ~100. Won't be the end of the world but if it's something you'll lose sleep over you can get a nice 100v-120v step down for about $40 on amazon.
  
 I am almost done with my KGSSHV build. I have sold off my last working Lambda and am planning on investing fairly heavily in something new. I am hoping to get a new Stax earspeaker that is close to the SR-X Mark III in sound signature though. I did not like how bright the Lambdas could be, plus the SR-X MKIII has much nicer bass IMO.


----------



## zolkis

thinker said:


> Removed original pads from L-700 and installed old Lambda pads instead like it much more it's clearer cleaner with more soundstage now it sounds almost equal or better than 009.The 353 amp sounds better with RCA input


 
  
 Which Lambda pads did you install, and how are they different from the L700 pads? Height? Opening? Stuffing?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

L700/L500 pads are flat (could be interesting for Sigma), Angle is done trough a plastic part.
 Previous Lambda pads are angled, with the thickest part on the low-back corner.
 Thinker did increase the angle and the volume. The more closed volume beetween drivers and ears, the more loundness FR you get (extreme = Sigma)
  
 Ali


----------



## soren_brix

edstrelow said:


> Still I think that if you could give a Sigma a more even frequency response and a tad better definition, you would have the world's best headphone, even compared to Senn's new effort, which is still just a conventional circumaural phone.


 
 As far as I know the enclosure is responsible for most of the un-even fq response ... however it seems, to me at least, that an amp with lots of control gets the most from the Sigmas ... somehow it sounds like any lack of behavior or a like is sort of amplified by the enclosure ..so everytime you get more control, you also are rewarded by a far better sound from the Sigmas.


----------



## edstrelow

soren_brix said:


> As far as I know the enclosure is responsible for most of the un-even fq response ... however it seems, to me at least, that an amp with lots of control gets the most from the Sigmas ... somehow it sounds like any lack of behavior or a like is sort of amplified by the enclosure ..so everytime you get more control, you also are rewarded by a far better sound from the Sigmas.


 
 This is probably true.  I keep hoping that I can find a sorbothane cure for some of this, maybe some way of targeting specific frequencies.  Certainly my most recent mods with 1/4 inch sorb have cleared up these frequencies somewhat.  However Sorbothane, the company, has very little information on frequency performance and I have spoken directly with some of their engineers.
  
 Even though the Sigma enlosure does create some problems, I am still impressed that these phones work at all.  For example, take some  Lambda earcups out of their yoke and put them up against your head in the same pozition as the Sigma drivers. You get minimal sound and certainly no bass.   However the Sigma uses these same drivers, in the same location and gets a very good and comparatively balanced sound. Possibly this is just due to the "mineral wool" batting they use. Still it is quite amazing that the Stax founder came up with  such a good headphone from such a seemingly impossible situation.  
  
 BTW here is a picture of the SRL 700 and it looks like the driver looks more like the traditional Lambda driivers.
  
 http://www.stax.co.jp/Pdf/Export/Web_News_SR-L700-E.pdf


----------



## drexler007

I've heard that the balanced input on stax amps are usually not as good as the RCA. That being the case, have you heard how the cans perform with a 323s? It would be great if we can use the old (cheaper) amps. 
  
 Quote:


thinker said:


> Removed original pads from L-700 and installed old Lambda pads instead like it much more it's clearer cleaner with more soundstage now it sounds almost equal or better than 009.The 353 amp sounds better with RCA input


----------



## thinker

>


  
  
  
  
  


zolkis said:


> Which Lambda pads did you install, and how are they different from the L700 pads? Height? Opening? Stuffing?


 
_I use Lambda signature pads instead ,on the rear the thickness is close to 700 pads but in front the sig.pads are much flatter so the 700 driver is now even more angled ,this cleans up the midrange but the upper bass is still slightly prominent but you get now more__ lower bass +the old musical Lambda sound is back. The 700 is overall a lot more weightier than older Lambdas.I find with the original 700 pads the midrange to be slightly recessed maybe also little bit too warm for my taste. With the sig.pads the 700 is excellent i listened several hours and enjoyed it ,the slightly prominent L/R soundstage has moved towards to the front stage and the staging appear now quite balanced._


----------



## zolkis

This is in line with my experience with the 007 pad mods. However, it seems there is an optimum overall height for a given driver: deeper pads will only elevate the loudness point/boominess in frequency and lose on low bass; shallow pads will shout too much. Also, there is an optimal difference between the height at the back and the front. And there are complications, too: lowering the back height will also open up the mids, and slighly elevating the front doesn't make it darker, only with better impact and sound stage (!). So the rule is not only about increasing the angle. Small physical changes may induce pretty amazing sound quality differences.
  
 Aside from pad height, the stuffing material makes even bigger difference. The current stuffing in my 007 has been cut from the acoustic foam used in a Harbeth HSL5 loudspeaker I have modified for a friend (as a part of that, I removed a part of the original foam and replaced that and the polyfill with non-carded wool, for cleaner and much deeper bass and better slam). That foam is less dense and a bit more strong than the one used in the 007 and 009 pads, and when cut to the optimal dimensions it made my 007 have similar bass slam as my modded TH900, only cleaner, and opening up the mids in the same time. Sounds like honey. However, walking further in the same direction, e.g. using active carbon foam, did not bring the same benefits as with the TH900 for instance. One can spend a lot of time with this hobby.
  
 Of course, for any account, this _is_ equalization.
 Anyway, it sounds like the L700 is a true winner. I appreciate that one can fine-tune the sound with different pads.


----------



## Michgelsen

drexler007 said:


> I've heard that the balanced input on stax amps are usually not as good as the RCA.


 
  
 And where did you hear this nonsense? RCA inputs are all automatically converted into a balanced signal, since an electrostatic amp is fully balanced internally and outputs a balanced signal to the earspeakers.
  
 It could be that the balanced *output* of your source is inferior to its unbalanced output, but the Stax amp is not to blame here.


----------



## soren_brix

drexler007 said:


> I've heard that the balanced input on stax amps are usually not as good as the RCA. That being the case, have you heard how the cans perform with a 323s? It would be great if we can use the old (cheaper) amps.


 
 Here we go again ... the only thing that kind of discussion is good for would be people want a 323S or prior to an even lower price, since most seems to be fool into believing that the new 323X is a quantum leap towards better sound ... might even surpass the T2 sort of impression.
 Take a look at the schematic for the 323S:


----------



## drexler007

Thank you for sharing this. I unfortunately do not understand anything about electronic schematics. The source of the allegation I quoted, that RCA inputs in Stax amps (with T2 as the exception) are better than the XLR ones, is also based on schematics, that is, the alps are 4 way or sth...  
  
 Quote:


soren_brix said:


> Here we go again ... the only thing that kind of discussion is good for would be people want a 323S or prior to an even lower price, since most seems to be fool into believing that the new 323X is a quantum leap towards better sound ... might even surpass the T2 sort of impression.
> Take a look at the schematic for the 323S:


 
  


michgelsen said:


> And where did you hear this nonsense? RCA inputs are all automatically converted into a balanced signal, since an electrostatic amp is fully balanced internally and outputs a balanced signal to the earspeakers.
> 
> It could be that the balanced *output* of your source is inferior to its unbalanced output, but the Stax amp is not to blame here.


----------



## Tinkerer

drexler007 said:


> Thank you for sharing this. I unfortunately do not understand anything about electronic schematics. The source of the allegation I quoted, that RCA inputs in Stax amps (with T2 as the exception) are better than the XLR ones, is also based on schematics, that is, the alps are 4 way or sth...


 
  
 What he was saying about the inputs is the only difference between RCA and XLR input on a STAX amp is whether the negative wire and shield are connected and grounded (RCA) or not (XLR). That's what the little switch for source on the back of the amp does. The only differences should a higher possibility of picking up a ground loop on the RCA and higher gain on the XLR. Basically, you can put either on almost any STAX amp ever made without changing any parts of the actual amp circuit.
  
 So it could only really be a source problem.


----------



## catspaw

soren_brix said:


> Here we go again ... the only thing that kind of discussion is good for would be people want a 323S or prior to an even lower price, since most seems to be fool into believing that the new 323X is a quantum leap towards better sound ... might even surpass the T2 sort of impression.
> Take a look at the schematic for the 323S:


 
 Like I understand any of that .


----------



## soren_brix

catspaw said:


> Like I understand any of that .


 
 your point being?


----------



## joseph69

Are there any other differences between these two SR-007 MKll's besides their colors?
  
http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=536&category=10
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STAX-SR-007MK2-Electrostatic-Earspeaker-US-Warranty-/171997169190?hash=item280bd48626:g:Z9sAAOSwPcVVlt83
  
 Thank you,
 I appreciate any information.


----------



## Michgelsen

joseph69 said:


> Are there any other differences between these two SR-007 MKll's besides their colors?
> 
> http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=536&category=10
> 
> ...


 
  
 No


----------



## wink

Well, perhaps a definite "maybe", or possibly a definitive "possibly" but not an authorative 'yes" which may occasion the consumption of your words at a later date......   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There is such a concept as production variability to contend with.


----------



## joseph69

michgelsen said:


> No


 
 Thank you.
  


wink said:


> Well, perhaps a definite "maybe", or possibly a definitive "possibly" but not an authorative 'yes" which may occasion the consumption of your words at a later date......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Do you know which out of the two are the currently produced?
 Thank you.


----------



## joseph69

So does anyone know if the newer 007MK2 is silver or black…or is there a choice of color?
 I'm asking because I'm going to purchase a 007 and I see both Stax USA/PJ show the 007 in silver with no color choice, Thanks.


----------



## brokenthumb

I think the USA version is black and Japan is Silver.


----------



## joseph69

brokenthumb said:


> I think the USA version is black and Japan is Silver.


 
 Thank you…I'm actually bidding on a *NEW* black SR-007MK2 and the ad states that it comes with a U.S. warranty so that would make sense.
 Thanks again.


----------



## Jones Bob

The SR-007A is the domestic Japan version in silver. The SR-007 Mk2 is the export version in all black. Supposedly all the same drivers.


----------



## joseph69

jones bob said:


> The SR-007A is the domestic Japan version in silver. The SR-007 Mk2 is the export version in all black.* Supposedly all the same drivers.*


 
 Thank you.
 I guess this dosen't apply to the SR-009?
 Also, has anyone heard both the domestic/export version and claim to hear differences in sound?


----------



## Music Alchemist

joseph69 said:


> So does anyone know if the newer 007MK2 is silver or black…or is there a choice of color?
> I'm asking because I'm going to purchase a 007 and I see both Stax USA/PJ show the 007 in silver with no color choice, Thanks.


 
  
 Wha?
  
 https://www.staxusa.com/earspeaker/stax-sr-007mk2.html
 http://pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=536&category=10
  
 The SR-007MK2 is black and for the international market whereas the SR-007A is silver and for the Japanese market. Both are still in production. STAXUSA.com does not sell the latter; they only sell the black version.
  


joseph69 said:


> Also, has anyone heard both the domestic/export version and claim to hear differences in sound?


 
  
 There are impressions all over the Internet from people who have heard both the SR-007MK2 and SR-007A and heard differences between them. There are reportedly various unannounced revisions of both that sound different too. For example, some have nicknamed them the SR-007MK2.5 or SR-007MK2.75. Just do some creative Google searching and you'll find a wealth of info.


----------



## soren_brix

music alchemist said:


> There are impressions all over the Internet from people who have heard both the SR-007MK2 and SR-007A and heard differences between them. There are reportedly various unannounced revisions of both that sound different too. For example, some have nicknamed them the SR-007MK2.5 or SR-007MK2.75. Just do some creative Google searching and you'll find a wealth of info.


 
  


joseph69 said:


> Also, has anyone heard both the domestic/export version and claim to hear differences in sound?


 
  
  


music alchemist said:


> There are impressions all over the Internet from people who have heard both the SR-007MK2 and SR-007A and heard differences between them. There are reportedly various unannounced revisions of both that sound different too. For example, some have nicknamed them the SR-007MK2.5 or SR-007MK2.75. Just do some creative Google searching and you'll find a wealth of info.


 
  
 There are no reason to believe Stax has a line up of a hundred japanese golden ears that spend all day dividing the production of drivers into export and home market.
 Even though a number of people claim that there are variations in sound it doesn't mean that one is definetely better than another ... just a bit different that's alll


----------



## joseph69

music alchemist said:


> Wha?
> https://www.staxusa.com/earspeaker/stax-sr-007mk2.html
> http://pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=536&category=10
> The SR-007MK2 is black and for the international market whereas the SR-007A is silver and for the Japanese market. Both are still in production. STAXUSA.com does not sell the latter; they only sell the black version.
> There are impressions all over the Internet from people who have heard both the SR-007MK2 and SR-007A and heard differences between them. There are reportedly various unannounced revisions of both that sound different too. For example, some have nicknamed them the SR-007MK2.5 or SR-007MK2.75. Just do some creative Google searching and you'll find a wealth of info.


 
 I figured I would try them out, I'm very curious how they sound. Thanks for the information, but Stax USA shows the (silver) color not the black as well as PJ.
  


soren_brix said:


> There are no reason to believe Stax has a line up of a hundred japanese golden ears that spend all day dividing the production of drivers into export and home market.
> Even though a number of people claim that there are variations in sound it doesn't mean that one is definetely better than another ... just a bit different that's alll


 
 Thank you very much.


----------



## bearFNF

I like to base my judgment on first hand experience (mine or a trusted source), not rumors and innuendo by people with no direct experience with the products being asked about... citing things the way they have been lately on this thread is pretty useless IMO.


----------



## Music Alchemist

joseph69 said:


> Stax USA shows the (silver) color not the black as well as PJ.


 
  
 No it doesn't...?
  


Spoiler: screenshots






  
 If you are seeing silver on STAXUSA.com, please take screenshots and post them here in a spoiler box.


----------



## paradoxper

Music Alchemist, you're clearly not looking hard enough. Look again and then again and then refresh or come back in 5 minutes after a breathe of fresh air. Don't give up.


----------



## joseph69

bearfnf said:


> I like to base my judgment on first hand experience (mine or a trusted source), not rumors and innuendo by people with no direct experience with the products being asked about... citing things the way they have been lately on this thread is pretty useless IMO.


 
 I also like to base my own judgement which is why I want to hear the 007MK2 for myself being I have the 009.
 I take impressions with a grain of salt.




  


music alchemist said:


> No it doesn't...?


 
 Your right…I meant PJ dosen't show them in black which was already explained why to me...and I would like black being my 009 is silver but I don't want to pay Stax USA prices which is why I'm bidding on (THESE). Otherwise I would have ordered them from PJ.
 If I lose the bid I will then order them from PJ in silver.


----------



## Music Alchemist

joseph69 said:


> Your right…I meant PJ dosen't show them in black which was already explained why to me...and I would like black being my 009 is silver but I don't want to pay Stax USA prices which is why I'm bidding on (THESE). Otherwise I would have ordered them from PJ. If I lose the bid I will then order them from PJ in silver.


 
  
 hehe. Gotcha. I like the black more as well.
  
 Just make sure to bid within the last three seconds to increase your chances of winning!


----------



## joseph69

music alchemist said:


> hehe. Gotcha. I like the black more as well.
> That's a nice price. Just make sure to bid within the last three seconds to increase your chances of winning!


 
 I already have my max bid in.
 PJ wants $1574.00 so I'm not going to go nuts for the black.


----------



## Jones Bob

The black sound better.


----------



## joseph69

jones bob said:


> The black sound better.


 
 Just increased my max bid…only kidding


----------



## soren_brix

joseph69 said:


> Just increased my max bid…only kidding


 
 Looking at your extensive list of equipment: "*Headphones:*Stax SR-009/*Grado GH1/RS1i/SR325is/SR80i*" ...I'd be surprised if you'd find any enjoyment from the 007 (not speaking of the black one, that would obviously match your interior ... )


----------



## joseph69

soren_brix said:


> Looking at your extensive list of equipment: "*Headphones:*Stax SR-009/*Grado GH1/RS1i/SR325is/SR80i*" ...I'd be surprised if you'd find any enjoyment from the 007 (not speaking of the black one, that would obviously match your interior ... )


 
 Why are they dark sounding?
 Keep in mind I'm waiting for the BHSE.


----------



## soren_brix

joseph69 said:


> Why are they dark sounding?
> Keep in mind I'm waiting for the BHSE.


 
 I'd say neutral and well balanced


----------



## joseph69

soren_brix said:


> I'd say neutral and well balanced


 
 Oh, well that makes me want to hear them even more then being I set out to have  something different than the Grado sound. Do you own or have you heard the 009?
 If so, whats your impressions on their differences?
 Thanks.


----------



## Jones Bob

With my own preferences, I prefer the SR-L700 over the SR-007 Mk2 that I have. Both do not come close to the sound I get out of my SR-009.

That is only with my lowly DIY KGST. No experience yet with other TOTL Stax amps, like a KGBH, BHSE, or T2 (or soon to be completed DIY KGSSHV Carbon). .


----------



## joseph69

jones bob said:


> With my own preferences, I prefer the SR-L700 over the SR-007 Mk2 that I have. Both do not come close to the sound I get out of my SR-009.
> That is only with my lowly DIY KGST. No experience yet with other TOTL Stax amps, like a KGBH, BHSE, or T2 (or soon to be completed DIY KGSSHV Carbon). .


 
 What is it you prefer with the L700 over the 007MK2?


----------



## Jones Bob

I think the KGST doesn't put out enough current to properly drive the SR-007 Mk2. Whereas the SR-L700 in comparison seems a breeze to drive. 

Hard to explain, the SR-L700 just reproduces better, more natural sound. Especially in the mids. Very magical. A little out of balance with the extremes. Still very listenable. Can't say that about my SR-007 Mk2 with my KGST. I get bored with those in no time. No amount of tube rolling will cure that for me. 

The SR-009 are amazing by comparison. The L700 makes every detail very interesting, but kicks my brain into a more analytical state. After a while it sounds like reproduced music. Very good reproduced music, but still ultimately "reproduced". Listening to the 009s, my brain imediately slips into Alpha or even Theta state and I am drawn into the performance. I like to listen in the dark, with no one home. Sometimes, a person coughing or talking/laughing in a recording will cause me to jump almost out of my chair. I could actually feel "someone" else was beside me in my dark empty house. Spooky. Spooky good.


----------



## soren_brix

jones bob said:


> I think the KGST doesn't put out enough current to properly drive the SR-007 Mk2. Whereas the SR-L700 in comparison seems a breeze to drive.
> 
> Hard to explain, the SR-L700 just reproduces better, more natural sound. Especially in the mids. Very magical. A little out of balance with the extremes. Still very listenable. Can't say that about my SR-007 Mk2 with my KGST. I get bored with those in no time. No amount of tube rolling will cure that for me.
> 
> The SR-009 are amazing by comparison. The L700 makes every detail very interesting, but kicks my brain into a more analytical state. After a while it sounds like reproduced music. Very good reproduced music, but still ultimately "reproduced". Listening to the 009s, my brain imediately slips into Alpha or even Theta state and I am drawn into the performance. I like to listen in the dark, with no one home. Sometimes, a person coughing or talking/laughing in a recording will cause me to jump almost out of my chair. I could actually feel "someone" else was beside me in my dark empty house. Spooky. Spooky good.


 
 What version of the KGST are you using? early/late? is it equipped with the 'usual' PSU?


----------



## preproman

jones bob said:


> I think the KGST doesn't put out enough current to properly drive the SR-007 Mk2. Whereas the SR-L700 in comparison seems a breeze to drive.
> 
> Hard to explain, the SR-L700 just reproduces better, more natural sound. Especially in the mids. Very magical. A little out of balance with the extremes. Still very listenable. Can't say that about my SR-007 Mk2 with my KGST. I get bored with those in no time. No amount of tube rolling will cure that for me.
> 
> The SR-009 are amazing by comparison. The L700 makes every detail very interesting, but kicks my brain into a more analytical state. After a while it sounds like reproduced music. Very good reproduced music, but still ultimately "reproduced". Listening to the 009s, my brain imediately slips into Alpha or even Theta state and I am drawn into the performance. I like to listen in the dark, with no one home. Sometimes, a person coughing or talking/laughing in a recording will cause me to jump almost out of my chair. I could actually feel "someone" else was beside me in my dark empty house. Spooky. Spooky good.


 
  
 +1
  
 That's the reason I sold my KGST it just didn't sound good with either the 007s Mk1 or Mk2 IMO.  It did sound damn good with the 009s though.  
  
 The LLMK2T is a different story with the 007s.


----------



## astrostar59

preproman said:


> +1
> 
> That's the reason I sold my KGST it just didn't sound good with either the 007s Mk1 or Mk2 IMO.  It did sound damn good with the 009s though.
> 
> The LLMK2T is a different story with the 007s.


 

 Interesting. My KGSShv kicks hard with my 007A's 2015 model. Maybe the current delivery on the KGST is a bit lower? It was probably designed from the start around the 009? Might be wrong, I think I read it somewhere in a Birgir post?


----------



## joseph69

jones bob said:


> I think the KGST doesn't put out enough current to properly drive the SR-007 Mk2. Whereas the SR-L700 in comparison seems a breeze to drive.
> Hard to explain, the SR-L700 just reproduces better, more natural sound. Especially in the mids. Very magical. A little out of balance with the extremes. Still very listenable. Can't say that about my SR-007 Mk2 with my KGST. I get bored with those in no time. No amount of tube rolling will cure that for me.
> The SR-009 are amazing by comparison. The L700 makes every detail very interesting, but kicks my brain into a more analytical state. After a while it sounds like reproduced music. Very good reproduced music, but still ultimately "reproduced". Listening to the 009s, my brain imediately slips into Alpha or even Theta state and I am drawn into the performance. I like to listen in the dark, with no one home. Sometimes, a person coughing or talking/laughing in a recording will cause me to jump almost out of my chair. I could actually feel "someone" else was beside me in my dark empty house. Spooky. Spooky good.


 
 Thanks for explaining why you may not be enjoying the 007 as much as you could be. If I win the bid I'll run them through the KGSSHV and write a short impression of my opinion.


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> Thanks for explaining why you may not be enjoying the 007 as much as you could be. If I win the bid I'll run them through the KGSSHV and write a short impression of my opinion.


 

 I would be careful. The 007 is a complex animal, I have heard about 4 versions so far, and they ALL sound very different i.e. all crap except the latest 007A I got this year. A MK1 I heard was better, probably just below my 007A? I can't understand it, but the whole phone seems very different in my later version. maybe Stax changed the diaphragms. I read Birgir has noted a recent change to the current 007s as well, as he got hold of a later unit. Before that, he only like the Mk1.
  
 It is odd, but the MK2.5s I had, and the other 2.5s I heard the frame seemed to be energised as well, it was somehow muddling the sound. It defiantly has a bass hump and a tailed of treble, almost like an EQ'd source, and didn't sound right. I am very happy with the latest 007A (I got them from PJ). 
  
 This 'may' explain some of the issues folk have noticed with their particular version. Dunno. It seems to me no matter how powerful an amp is, some versions of the 007 will never be right, not by my ears anyway. Totally confusing situation, and I sympathise with folk who have bought a version that seems to them not right.... My advice, sell it and get the current 007A.


----------



## preproman

Oh yes I do.  Just wanted to get your take on it.


----------



## Jones Bob

soren_brix said:


> What version of the KGST are you using? early/late? is it equipped with the 'usual' PSU?




Early boards from the Headinclouds GB. So no cascode on the CCS. I measured and set the individual current to a spot on 9.0 mA. Also uses the simplified KGBH PSU. 

Sounded really good when I first powered up with an Alpha pot from Birgir. Took 2 big steps up when replaced with an Alps RK50. Also using balanced silver ribbon interconnects. Never liked silver ICs before, but in this application is uber-magic. As far as tube rolling, I like the various brand "Made in Japan" labeled 6S4A . They are easy to spot with flag isolators under the getters similar to an EL-34. Looks like Toshiba used early Tungsol tooling and I suspect they may really be internally repinned 6RA6. Those 6RA6 Japanese tubes have higher plate dissipation and a 40% lower Rp. I don't have a tube curve tracer so that is pure speculation. The 6RA6 does also have higher spec'd current draw for the heaters, which I confirmed in circuit with the Japanese 6S4A.

And Herbie's Tube Dampeners helps a bit too.


Dry fitting the KGSSHV Carbon.

Depending on how much the heat sinks can dissipate, can run up to 40 mA.


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> I would be careful. The 007 is a complex animal, I have heard about 4 versions so far, and they ALL sound very different i.e. all crap except the latest 007A I got this year. A MK1 I heard was better, probably just below my 007A? I can't understand it, but the whole phone seems very different in my later version. maybe Stax changed the diaphragms. I read Birgir has noted a recent change to the current 007s as well, as he got hold of a later unit. Before that, he only like the Mk1.
> It is odd, but the MK2.5s I had, and the other 2.5s I heard the frame seemed to be energised as well, it was somehow muddling the sound. It defiantly has a bass hump and a tailed of treble, almost like an EQ'd source, and didn't sound right. I am very happy with the latest 007A (I got them from PJ).
> This 'may' explain some of the issues folk have noticed with their particular version. Dunno. It seems to me no matter how powerful an amp is, some versions of the 007 will never be right, not by my ears anyway. Totally confusing situation, and I sympathise with folk who have bought a version that seems to them not right.... My advice, sell it and get the current 007A.


 
 Hmm, this seems to worry me now…I had the same issue with 3 different PS1K's.
 Your almost making me want to withdraw my bid being I am the highest bidder so far and the auction ends Wednesday.


----------



## mulveling

joseph69 said:


> Hmm, this seems to worry me now…I had the same issue with 3 different PS1K's.
> Your almost making me want to withdraw my bid being I am the highest bidder so far and the auction ends Wednesday.


 
 Haha...please don't compare Grado quality to Stax's on the Stax thread; it's insulting 
  
 Sometime I think the community goes a little crazy assigning new versions to various Stax models -- that said, Stax doesn't help the situation as they do in fact change things unannounced. So yeah, if I were you I'd be wary of any ebay purchase unless you're getting a significant discount off the PJ price (which is what, under 1600 now?).


----------



## joseph69

mulveling said:


> Haha...please don't compare Grado quality to Stax's on the Stax thread; it's insulting
> 
> Sometime I think the community goes a little crazy assigning new versions to various Stax models -- that said, Stax doesn't help the situation as they do in fact change things unannounced. So yeah, if I were you I'd be wary of any ebay purchase unless you're getting a significant discount off the PJ price (which is what, under 1600 now?).


 
 Wasn't comparing the brands, just saying I had the same issue.
 The ones I'm bidding on (HERE) must be from Stax USA being they are black and come with a U.S. warranty.
 Yes, PJ sells them for $1574.00 U.S. but I do like the black being my 009 is silver. I Don't know what to do now.


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> Wasn't comparing the brands, just saying I had the same issue.
> The ones I'm bidding on (HERE) must be from Stax USA being they are black and come with a U.S. warranty.
> Yes, PJ sells them for $1574.00 U.S. but I do like the black being my 009 is silver. I Don't know what to do now.


 

 I would run away as fast as possible. IMO the black 007s sound very poor, way behind the current 007A (silver) from Japan or the 007Mk1. Get the 0007A from PJ, I did and it is a great phone. My previous back MK2s / 2.5s were not good.....


----------



## Jones Bob

Stax are sold with a US warranty from a number of sellers other than Yamas. Elusive Disc is the first one off the top of my head.


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> I would run away as fast as possible. IMO the black 007s sound very poor, way behind the current 007A (silver) from Japan or the 007Mk1. Get the 0007A from PJ, I did and it is a great phone. My previous back MK2s / 2.5s were not good.....


 




 The MK1 is no longer available *NEW* correct?


----------



## preproman

joseph69 said:


> The MK1 is no longer available *NEW* correct?


 
  
 If it's a current Black MK2 with a high SN - I would get those. They sound pretty good.  However, if you like a brighter style headphone you might not like either.
  
 I have 2 pair of the MK1s one with the SN of 705xx.  I might be willing to let it go.


----------



## Music Alchemist

preproman said:


> The LLMK2T is a different story with the 007s.


 
  
 The Liquid Lightning 2T is the tube version. The solid-state version is just Liquid Lightning 2, without the T.
  
 (I know he revised it so he can start making both versions with the same "base".)
  


astrostar59 said:


> I would run away as fast as possible. IMO the black 007s sound very poor, way behind the current 007A (silver) from Japan or the 007Mk1. Get the 0007A from PJ, I did and it is a great phone. My previous back MK2s / 2.5s were not good.....


 
  
 Isn't the SR-007MK2 Birgir likes so much now a black one?
  
 People have posted in this thread about the black one being revised again to sound better than the "MK2.5", nicknaming it the "MK2.75".
  


joseph69 said:


> The MK1 is no longer available *NEW* correct?


 
  
 Correct.
  


preproman said:


> I have 2 pair of the MK1s one with the SN of 705xx.  I might be willing to let it go.


 
  
 Man, you have owned so many MK1s!


----------



## preproman

music alchemist said:


> The Liquid Lightning 2T is the tube version. The solid-state version is just Liquid Lightning 2, without the T.
> 
> (I know he revised it so he can start making both versions with the same "base".)


 
  
 Nope.  Both are LLMK2T  
  
 One is Solid State and one is tube.  I talked to Alex in depth about this.


----------



## paradoxper

Such selective reading, eh.


----------



## joseph69

preproman said:


> If it's a current Black MK2 with a high SN - I would get those. They sound pretty good.  However, if you like a brighter style headphone you might not like either.
> I have 2 pair of the MK1s one with the SN of 705xx.  I might be willing to let it go.


 
 Now I'm all %#@*&^-up!
 I just retracted my bid.


----------



## preproman

joseph69 said:


> Now I'm all %#@*&^-up!
> I just retracted my bid.


 
  
 Just buy directly from Justin if you want the Black.  I think he has the current model in.  Also owning a pair of Mk1s is worth it as well IMO.


----------



## Sorrodje

Received a SR-507 yesterday and thus far I'm really happy with what I hear. Besides usual Stat qualities I really appeciate that this 507 provides deep and clean basse, a very good overall impact and slam , no midrange forwardness. Even the treble sizzle does not bother me that much ( my SRM-T1 and my Theta DS pro Gen Va probably help) . The plan was to discover how this SR-507 sounds while I'm saving money for the L700 but right now I wonder if the L700 would fit better my tastes than the  507.   Seems the SR-507's slightly U shaped Sound sig matches my tastes. 
 Did anyone hear both in direct A/B comparison and could provide impressions ?  Thks


----------



## bearFNF

Wow,  another example of someone speaking out without first hand experience.
 Just to put this to rest here is what it says on the back of mine:


 Guess what amp I own...


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Solid State
 And wonder of wonders it says its a Liquid Lightening 2T


----------



## Jodet

sorrodje said:


> Received a SR-507 yesterday and thus far I'm really happy with what I hear. Besides usual Stat qualities I really appeciate that this 507 provides deep and clean basse, a very good overall impact and slam , no midrange forwardness. Even the treble sizzle does not bother me that much ( my SRM-T1 and my Theta DS pro Gen Va probably help) . The plan was to discover how this SR-507 sounds while I'm saving money for the L700 but right now I wonder if the L700 would fit better my tastes than the  507.   Seems the SR-507's slightly U shaped Sound sig matches my tastes.
> Did anyone hear both in direct A/B comparison and could provide impressions ?  Thks


 
  
 Yeah, I'd be very interested in 700 507 comparisons as well.


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> Nope.  Both are LLMK2T
> 
> One is Solid State and one is tube.  I talked to Alex in depth about this.


 
  
 Gents...just for clarification, the differences between the LL2 and LL2T solid state versions are very, very small. A different volume setup as the LL2 wouldn't allow for the tubes as the shaft runs front to back right through were the tubes would be...and the PCBs have been changed to allow for a quick swap out for either the tubes or ss PCBs. Sonically I really like both the solid state version and tube version FWIW. But as I have the SR007Mk1s here as well as my SR009s, I preferred the solid state version and it was better suited for the 007s. And the LL2/LL2T is a big step up from the LL (also used to own).


----------



## wink

paradoxper said:


> Such selective reading, eh.


 
 This really defies logic.....    
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I can't see why someone would have to go to all this trouble to determine what is what.
  
 It seems that there has been a modicum of shooting from the hip in naming the amps, rather than a bit of thought being injected into the process.
  
 It really makes things confusing to the average punter.


----------



## edstrelow

astrostar59 said:


> I would be careful. The 007 is a complex animal, I have heard about 4 versions so far, and they ALL sound very different i.e. all crap except the latest 007A I got this year. A MK1 I heard was better, probably just below my 007A? I can't understand it, but the whole phone seems very different in my later version. maybe Stax changed the diaphragms. I read Birgir has noted a recent change to the current 007s as well, as he got hold of a later unit. Before that, he only like the Mk1.
> 
> It is odd, but the MK2.5s I had, and the other 2.5s I heard the frame seemed to be energised as well, it was somehow muddling the sound. It defiantly has a bass hump and a tailed of treble, almost like an EQ'd source, and didn't sound right. I am very happy with the latest 007A (I got them from PJ).
> 
> This 'may' explain some of the issues folk have noticed with their particular version. Dunno. It seems to me no matter how powerful an amp is, some versions of the 007 will never be right, not by my ears anyway. Totally confusing situation, and I sympathise with folk who have bought a version that seems to them not right.... My advice, sell it and get the current 007A.


 
  
 It doesn't take much in the way of mechanical damping to change the sound of most headphones as I and others have noted.  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/damping-mechanical-energy-distortion-of-stax-and-other-phones-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials
  
 Even minor changes in the structure of the phones, the earpads and the like are probably going to give you sonic differences at least in part because they will change the mechanical damping characteristics of phones. I have heard the claim, mostly from Spritzer, that Stax may have changed the drivers of the 007 but I have yet to see any evidence, i.e. do the drivers look different or has Stax told someone about a re-tensioning of the diaphragms. 
  
 BTW if you want my best attempt at damping the 007A it looks like this:

  except now I cut the ring of sorb seen here into 8 sections, since smaller  pieces seem to be more effective that large ones.
  
 The 007 also has a problematic headband which because it is rigidly fastened to the earcups seems to pass vibrations between the two earcups. I use additional damping on the band just to deal with this problem. I believe the 4070 is the only other Stax phone to use this type of band.  I guess that Stax chose it for its rigidty. My solution to that problem looks like this  where there are sorbothan pads under the plastic clamps.:
  

  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/671314/stax-sr007-resonance-problems


----------



## astrostar59

edstrelow said:


> It doesn't take much in the way of mechanical damping to change the sound of most headphones as I and others have noted.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/damping-mechanical-energy-distortion-of-stax-and-other-phones-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials
> 
> ...


 

 I agree, I noticed (heard / felt) the resonance transfer from the panels to the frame. I think it is why the 009s have the central swivel point, to reduce that. Also the 009s don't vibrate as much even at the circular frame edges when touch by your fingers even on a bass heavy track. Another aspect with the 007A's is they feel a bit more claustrophobic wearing them, even without music, dunno why. Maybe the cups of the way they don't swivel like the 009s. With all the issues though, I still have a soft spot for my 007A's, they were the first 'high end' Stax phones I bought after the years with the Lambda units. And IMO the current (improved again) 007A 2015 units sound really damb good, not so far behind the 009 making them IMO a bargain.


----------



## soren_brix

edstrelow said:


> I have heard the claim, mostly from Spritzer, that Stax may have changed the drivers of the 007 but I have yet to see any evidence, i.e. do the drivers look different or has Stax told someone about a re-tensioning of the diaphragms.


 
 I have 70xxx and SZ1 - 1xxx ... the drivers are different .... they do sound a bit different like Spritzer has noticed and said: "_but these are small differences_"


> *Mk1 early version:*  Super smooth sound with the best midrange and bass of any headphone, top end a bit dark unless you drive it properly.
> 
> *Mk1 later version:*  Not quite a smooth and the bass is a bit uneven but these are small differences.  Better materials all around so these will last longer.
> *Mk2 SZ2 version:*  Same basic sound signature but with a slight upper midrange/lower treble coloration and the bass is all over the place depending on how the earpads are placed.  Once you plug the port and lower the earpad height they are very close to the later Mk1 but a bit more forward.
> ...


----------



## astrostar59

soren_brix said:


> I have 70xxx and SZ1 - 1xxx ... the drivers are different .... they do sound a bit different like Spritzer has noticed and said: "_but these are small differences_"


 

 Hmm, I think it is a bigger change myself. I had the MK2.5 Black 007s mid 2013 model, thought they were ok sounding, then got the 009 2014 model and realised they were quite bad actually, boxy, dark, slow, bass hump. Later I bought the 007As from PJ 2015 model and they sounded MUCH better, like a lot closer to the 009 sound i.e more efficient, more alive, more transparent, less mid bass bump, less boxy. Just plain better. If I rated the difference I would say the 007A is 10 and the 007 2.5 2013 model is 7, then the 009 would be about 12. That is how I heard it on the same source and same KGSShv amp. TBH the 007A is not so far behind the 009 now IMO, making it a real steal.


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> Hmm, I think it is a bigger change myself. I had the MK2.5 Black 007s mid 2013 model, thought they were ok sounding, then got the 009 2014 model and realised they were quite bad actually, boxy, dark, slow, bass hump. Later I bought the 007As from PJ 2015 model and they sounded MUCH better, like a lot closer to the 009 sound i.e more efficient, more alive, more transparent, less mid bass bump, less boxy. Just plain better. If I rated the difference I would say the 007A is 10 and the 007 2.5 2013 model is 7, then the 009 would be about 12. That is how I heard it on the same source and same KGSShv amp. TBH the 007A is not so far behind the 009 now IMO, making it a real steal.


 
 I don't know about the later 007's ....I've heard the 2.5 but only on 323/006t so I wouldn't parrot anything about that ....but the 70xxx or SZ1-1xxx, on a scale from 1 - 10, where 10 is the absolut best, I'd say they are really good! ;o)


----------



## RAZRr1275

Would a Srd-7 and Parasound Zamp power amp be sufficient to drive the 007?


----------



## soren_brix

razrr1275 said:


> Would a Srd-7 and Parasound Zamp power amp be sufficient to drive the 007?


 
 don't know about the amp, but driving the SRD-7 from my amp sure sounded a lot better in comparison to 323 ...you won't get the full potential from the 007 though


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> Now I'm all %#@*&^-up!
> I just retracted my bid.


 
 Don't panic. Now contact PJ and get that 007A. It is a great phone. My Black 2.5 sounded way behind, it is like another model (lower SQ) just plain slow and bloomy.
  
 Keep us posted.
  
 On warranty,. obviously no guarantee, but the 007 has been manufactured for years, so it has less risk factor. I would not worry too much.


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> Now I'm all %#@*&^-up!
> I just retracted my bid.


 
 Congrats. Now get the 007A from PJ.


----------



## wink

Get the 007A from PJ.... Time's a wasting.......


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> Don't panic. Now contact PJ and get that 007A. It is a great phone. My Black 2.5 sounded way behind, it is like another model (lower SQ) just plain slow and bloomy.
> Keep us posted.
> On warranty,. obviously no guarantee, but the 007 has been manufactured for years, so it has less risk factor. I would not worry too much.


 


astrostar59 said:


> Congrats. Now get the 007A from PJ.


 


wink said:


> Get the 007A from PJ.... Time's a wasting.......


 
 Thank you for the advise, I'll keep you posted.


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> Thank you for the advise, I'll keep you posted.


 
 Please do. My dealings with Kaneda were great, really quick to respond via email, item shipped as promised, arrived in a sealed Stax case. Only difference is the warranty card sticker on the box says Japan only. Having said that, I know of some where if they had an issue, PJ sorted it out regardless of location.
  
 The current 007A is a bargain IMO. It i now not far behind the 009 and has shrugged off the sluggish sound it had with the older versions. These comparisons are with a Stax 717 amp and a KGSShv. Out of the 717 they still sounded great.


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> Please do. My dealings with Kaneda were great, really quick to respond via email, item shipped as promised, arrived in a sealed Stax case. Only difference is the warranty card sticker on the box says Japan only. Having said that, I know of some where if they had an issue, PJ sorted it out regardless of location.
> The current 007A is a bargain IMO. It i now not far behind the 009 and has shrugged off the sluggish sound it had with the older versions. These comparisons are with a Stax 717 amp and a KGSShv. Out of the 717 they still sounded great.


 
 Yes, I've already purchased the 009 from PJ and everything went as smooth as could be!
 They are also very quick to respond to me e-mails also. I'm not worried one bit about the warranty as I do believe they would resolve any issues if needed.


----------



## Hauge

Hi!

 As a new Stax electrostatic earspeaker owner, i'm sorry if i repeat a former question.

 A couple of weeks ago i stumbled over a set of Lambda (normal bias/1979-84) with SRD-6/SB.
 - And I'm very pleased with them. But they need to be played a little louder, than my ears want, to open up.
 I'm pretty sure its down to the way the bios is generated, and the efficiency of the driver transformers.

 Thus, i'we been thinking if there's some interesting diy tube projects, that are "worth going after"?
 I have several tubes laying around, including 12B4, 6N6P-E, 6080 and more...

 Best regards
 And thank You very much for any thoughts and advises!
 Tonni


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

have you included the DIY section with this question?


----------



## bearFNF

hauge said:


> Hi!
> 
> 
> As a new Stax electrostatic earspeaker owner, i'm sorry if i repeat a former question.
> ...



If the earspeakers sat unused for a while it may take some time to get them charged. 
When I took mine out of storage I had to run them for a few days before they started sounding like I remembered them to sound back in the 80s when I bought them. Even then it takes a while and higher volume to get them going for a listening session. I use an SRD7/SB or a Woo Wee with mine. The WEE seems to get them going faster. It may also depend on the amp you are using.

Read this thread for more info,
http://www.head-fi.org/t/588716/vintage-stax-repair-and-maintenance


----------



## Hauge

No i haven't. "VGoghs" 
 - As i thought this were where the specialists were... 
 But i surely will do...  Thanks for the tip!


----------



## Hauge

bearfnf said:


> If the earspeakers sat unused for a while it may take some time to get them charged.
> When I took mine out of storage I had to run them for a few days before they started sounding like I remembered them to sound back in the 80s when I bought them. Even then it takes a while and higher volume to get them going for a listening session. I use an SRD7/SB or a Woo Wee with mine. The WEE seems to get them going faster. It may also depend on the amp you are using.
> 
> Read this thread for more info,
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/588716/vintage-stax-repair-and-maintenance


 
 The Lambda's had been playing for around tree full days, night and day. But the problem remains the same "BearFNF". But also my ears are very sensitive and starts to hurt around 95 - 98 dB SPL. Therefore a setup with a active amp seemed to be a great solution...
 I have tried both a Leak Stereo 20 and a Kenwood 7090 driving the SRD-6/SB. And thou liking the sound, it became to loud before opening. Today i were given a SRD-7 (mains powered), and probably will have it in the mail at the end of the week. Maybe that will do the trick? Else ill go the direct tube driven way.

 But thank You wery much for the link to the maintenance thread. I surely will have a look at it! 

 By the way. The system its going to work with consist of:
 Thorens 320 / Goldring 1022 / DaliRIAA
 Thorens 124 / Ortofon AS212 / AT-OC9 / diy ARC PH-3
 Nad S100
 Marantz CD 63 SE / LClock / AD op-amps
 Leak Stereo 20
 And Snell E/III, AN/J or Lowther PM6A in SuperACE horns.

 Not High-end but i like it a lot!!!


----------



## JimL11

hauge said:


> Hi!
> 
> As a new Stax electrostatic earspeaker owner, i'm sorry if i repeat a former question.
> 
> ...


 

 As it turns out, I just published a DIY tube project in AudioXpress Nov and Dec 2015.  It is a modification/updating of the Stax SRX DIY electrostatic headphone amp originally published in the 70s, adding solid state current sinks and loads to improve balance and efficiency.  It uses 12AT7 and 6SN7GTA/B tubes.  You can do a Google search for AudioXpress Nov 2015 or Dec 2015 for more details, or "SRX revisited."
  
 One person who built it felt it was comparable in sonic quality to other DIY amps he built like the Gilmore KGSSHV and Gilmore Megatron, and superior to the DIY Egmont.


----------



## Judgment

Would it be possible to convert the Japanese Stax SRM-727II 100 Volt model to operate on 230 Volt mains outlet? Not scared of doing soldering. Does the frequency difference 50/60hz make any difference?


----------



## wuwhere

judgment said:


> Would it be possible to convert the Japanese Stax SRM-727II 100 Volt model to operate on 230 Volt mains outlet? Not scared of doing soldering. Does the frequency difference 50/60hz make any difference?


 
  
 Why not just use a transformer?


----------



## Judgment

That might actually be a good idea. Saves a lot of trouble.. but I still wonder if the mains frequency makes any difference.
  
 Transformers aren't too expensive either: http://www.ebay.com/itm/300W-AC-AC-Power-Converter-300-Watt-220V-230V-240V-Step-Down-100V-110V-120V/261293848245?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3Db4a23e7c962f4bcf8e4f7b25622bbdc0%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D271284293340


----------



## wuwhere

That's just the voltage carrier frequency which most transformers can handle unless you have a motor that only works at a certain frequency.


----------



## Hauge

Above. Except in cases where the transformers are really marginal, and thus runs wery hot, it can be a theoretical problem to go from 60 to 50 Hz.
 The other way around no worry...


----------



## Hauge

jiml11 said:


> As it turns out, I just published a DIY tube project in AudioXpress Nov and Dec 2015.  It is a modification/updating of the Stax SRX DIY electrostatic headphone amp originally published in the 70s, adding solid state current sinks and loads to improve balance and efficiency.  It uses 12AT7 and 6SN7GTA/B tubes.  You can do a Google search for AudioXpress Nov 2015 or Dec 2015 for more details, or "SRX revisited."
> 
> One person who built it felt it was comparable in sonic quality to other DIY amps he built like the Gilmore KGSSHV and Gilmore Megatron, and superior to the DIY Egmont.


 

 Thanks JimL11!

 Ill se if i can find a place here in Denmark, where they sell audioXpress! - As the holidays are just a month away, its not time for a subscription right now...


----------



## Music Alchemist

Can one (or more) of you describe the differences you hear between the RCA and XLR inputs of STAX amps?


----------



## Michgelsen

judgment said:


> Would it be possible to convert the Japanese Stax SRM-727II 100 Volt model to operate on 230 Volt mains outlet? Not scared of doing soldering. Does the frequency difference 50/60hz make any difference?


 
  
 Yes this is possible, but difficult, since Stax cuts the wires very short on the transformers to prevent this. Therefore you will definitely have to do soldering. Your question has been asked many times before, and as is the unfortunate nature of this kind of fora, the answers are spread out across many posts. The best advice I can give you right now, is to do a thorough search, here, and on the other forum.
  
 The frequency difference shouldn't matter. Stax amps used to have a voltage selector, and even though they don't have that anymore, the transformers for all voltages are the same I think. That's why they cut the windings for voltages they don't need and it is still possible to reconnect them. Stax doesn't use specific transformers for specific voltages and frequencies as far as I know.


----------



## potkettleblack

Gentleman (specifically UK users),
  
  
 SR-009’s are now down to £3195 
  
 The price for the new Stax L700’s will be £995
  
 The 353X is going to be £895
  
 There is also going to be a L500 + 353X package for £1395.
  
  
  
  
**takes a bow* *
  
 (Not that I played a part in anything)


----------



## David1961

potkettleblack said:


> Gentleman (specifically UK users),
> 
> 
> SR-009’s are now down to £3195
> ...




Look on PriceJapan.com, excluding the 353X.


----------



## JimL11

For Judgment, the difference between 50 and 60 Hz does not make a difference.  My understanding is that Stax uses the same transformer for different markets, but just wires it up differently depending on the voltage.  Here is a post by Spritzer from 2008 describing how to change the voltage:
  
 "This is posted without any guaranty but should work. There are two 0-100-120v windings on the transformer so you want to change from a parallel wired 0-100 over to parallel wired 120v configuration.

 100v should be Gray and White connected together (they are the 0v points of the windings) and then Brown, Green and the other white wire (which is connected to the power socket) connected together.

 117v should be White and Gray connected together (0v point) and then Blue, Purple and the other white wire connected together.

 240v should be Blue and the other white wire connected together and then Purple and Gray connected together.

 That means you have to move the jumpers as well as the white wire (not the one connected to the fuse!!!!!) over to the spot above the purple wire. You were dead on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 One thing to note is that Stax does sometimes cut the 120 windings on the transformer making this change almost impossible. Check and measure the primary windings before proceeding."


----------



## potkettleblack

david1961 said:


> Look on PriceJapan.com, excluding the 353X.


 
 Yup. Looked already.
  
 These are prices given to me by Hifi Lounge.


----------



## Tinkerer

jiml11 said:


> For Judgment, the difference between 50 and 60 Hz does not make a difference.  My understanding is that Stax uses the same transformer for different markets, but just wires it up differently depending on the voltage.  Here is a post by Spritzer from 2008 describing how to change the voltage:
> 
> "This is posted without any guaranty but should work. There are two 0-100-120v windings on the transformer so you want to change from a parallel wired 0-100 over to parallel wired 120v configuration.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Basically what this says without the color stuff which changes from amp to amp, is that there are always 2 primary 0-100-120 windings on the transformer. You either connect them in parallel to keep the voltage the same, 0-120 and 0-120 for 120VAC USA for example, or connect them in series to add the voltages together. So then 0-120 and 0-120 in series works for 240VAC. And then anything about within 10volts falls within each range. What makes it bit more tricky is often stax has a daughter board with various bar fuses that might need to be changed out for the correct rating as well.


----------



## Richard941

potkettleblack said:


> Gentleman (specifically UK users),
> 
> 
> SR-009’s are now down to £3195
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info.
  
 Also:
 SR-L500 for £545.00
 http://hifilounge.co.uk/stax-sr-l500


----------



## potkettleblack

richard941 said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Also:
> SR-L500 for [COLOR=474747]£545.00[/COLOR]
> http://hifilounge.co.uk/stax-sr-l500


I forgot to provide their website, thanks


----------



## Judgment

tinkerer said:


> Basically what this says without the color stuff which changes from amp to amp, is that there are always 2 primary 0-100-120 windings on the transformer. You either connect them in parallel to keep the voltage the same, 0-120 and 0-120 for 120VAC USA for example, or connect them in series to add the voltages together. So then 0-120 and 0-120 in series works for 240VAC. And then anything about within 10volts falls within each range. What makes it bit more tricky is often stax has a daughter board with various bar fuses that might need to be changed out for the correct rating as well.


 
  
  
 Ok, external transformer it is Too much hassle after all to start rewiring the unit.


----------



## JimL11

hauge said:


> Ill se if i can find a place here in Denmark, where they sell audioXpress! - As the holidays are just a month away, its not time for a subscription right now...


 
  
 So if for some reason you can't find it for sale, you can also see an extended discussion on the internet - actually more detailed due to word count limits for the AudioXpress articles.  Do a Google search for "kevin gilmore SRX revisited."  The AudioXpress article has nicer looking schematics.  If you don't want to build it point-to-point there are board files on Kevin Gilmore's website under srx6 - this is just for the amp.  They can be sent to a professional board maker to make the board.  I am going to try to design a board for the power supply but I will have to download board design software first, and learn how to use it.


----------



## Hauge

jiml11 said:


> So if for some reason you can't find it for sale, you can also see an extended discussion on the internet - actually more detailed due to word count limits for the AudioXpress articles.  Do a Google search for "kevin gilmore SRX revisited."  The AudioXpress article has nicer looking schematics.  If you don't want to build it point-to-point there are board files on Kevin Gilmore's website under srx6 - this is just for the amp.  They can be sent to a professional board maker to make the board.  I am going to try to design a board for the power supply but I will have to download board design software first, and learn how to use it.


 

 Hi again JimL11!

 Thank You for Your very kind help! The amp look very well designed, and reading the tread gives a perfect insight of how it works. Im really grateful, for You and the other contributors great work!
 Let the hunt go in for the needed parts!


----------



## SquireC

potkettleblack said:


> Gentleman (specifically UK users),
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 



Thanks potkettleblack,

Keeping an eye on the L700 reviews.

I have Lambda Sigs, LNS, 207's and 507. Something may have to be sold for the L700's.


----------



## potkettleblack

Hi all,
  
  
 Would love some more opinions (or revised/recent opinions) on the 353X paired with the 009's.
  
  
 Thanks in advance


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

potkettleblack said:


> Hi all,
> 
> 
> Would love some more opinions (or revised/recent opinions) on the 353X paired with the 009's.
> ...


 
  
 I'm interested in that too!


----------



## PATB

To those who have both the SR-009 and L700.  Could someone confirm that the L700 pad openings are longer than the SR-009's (in the vertical direction)?  I'm just wondering if I will run into fit issues, as I am already at the top end of the SR-009 slider setting.


----------



## mulveling

patb said:


> To those who have both the SR-009 and L700.  Could someone confirm that the L700 pad openings are longer than the SR-009's (in the vertical direction)?  I'm just wondering if I will run into fit issues, as I am already at the top end of the SR-009 slider setting.


 
 Looks about 1 to 1.5 cm longer in the vertical opening, yes.
  
 However the top pad opening seems to ride higher, relative to the headband, vs. the 009 -- so I'm not sure how much that will help you if you need to open the slider to the largest setting? Lol I have both my 009 and L700 click-stopped close to the smallest setting!


----------



## PATB

mulveling said:


> Looks about 1 to 1.5 cm longer in the vertical opening, yes.
> 
> However the top pad opening seems to ride higher, relative to the headband, vs. the 009 -- so I'm not sure how much that will help you if you need to open the slider to the largest setting? Lol I have both my 009 and L700 click-stopped close to the smallest setting!


 

 Thanks.  I am between the top and the next lower slider setting!  I need something in-between, so thinking of getting a custom head-pad, but that can wait.


----------



## audiokid

I now own the L-700, and I think they're great. Paired with the 006ts Kimik Energiser. 
  
 More detailed, open and spacious than the 507, which I have always been very fond of too. They're easier to drive, more frequency extremes, wider sound stage. The L-700 are lighter to wear, but on the downside, I like the metal construction on the 507, they feel more sturdy. 
  
 I don't know whether the new 853x would be a better match than the 006ts Kimik, although some have said the latter is an excellent pairing. I think they sound sublime, but haven't heard them with anything else yet. 
  
 FWIW, I think the L-700 are very close to the 009, which I once owned. Perhaps I prefer the L-700 but the 009 were a while back. Prefer the 009 build though.


----------



## sonorsnoopy

Better amp or phone?
  
 Would you recommend L700+ 353X  or  L500 / 407 + better amp?.
  
 Is the balanced XLR input better than the RCA with the STAX amps?


----------



## Rhamnetin

sonorsnoopy said:


> Better amp or phone?
> 
> Would you recommend L700+ 353X  or  L500 / 407 + better amp?.
> 
> Is the balanced XLR input better than the RCA with the STAX amps?


 
  
 Definitely the L700, even though I've heard none of those.  The phone is just more important and the 323S/353X are enough to show the difference between the L700 and a lesser Lambda.
  
 XLR and RCA input on Stax amps are the same.  If you have a DAC that has RCA and XLR outputs however, you'll want to use whichever one is better on that particular DAC (if none are better then it doesn't matter, I'd just use XLR since the cable design is better).


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

brbttyl said:


> Hi everybody. I'm considering purchasing a STAX 4170 system (SR-407 & SRM-006tS) for use in the USA. From what I've read on these forums, older STAX amps were convertible for different voltages, but newer systems are built country-specific to thwart the grey market.
> 
> Can anyone with one of these units (SRM-006tS) tell me if they can run on 120V out of the box?
> 
> ...


 
 Have you considered  price japan?  http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_result_goods.php?in_maker=25&in_category=10&search_value=&orderby=&asc_desc=0&pg=2
 also read this, it will answer some questions.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/627144/buying-stax-sr-009-from-pricejapan-com/15


----------



## Rhamnetin

vgoghs earfrmsc said:


> Have you considered  price japan?  http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_result_goods.php?in_maker=25&in_category=10&search_value=&orderby=&asc_desc=0&pg=2


 
  
 Yeah I can't answer that question about the amp, but you can save a lot of money from Pricejapan.  Even if the amp can't run at 120v out of the box, you can get a 100v step up transformer which is not expensive at all (about $40).


----------



## edstrelow

STAX COUNTRY
  

  
 I spent a few days off road on the California desert over Thanksgiving. My Stax SRM 001mk2 made it all the more enjoyable.  With these, I could live in a tent.    It was especially nice hearing Copland's western music in this setting.


----------



## Kiats

The L700 has landed


----------



## Music Alchemist

So aside from the KGSSHV Carbon and Liquid Lightning, which electrostatic amps would you guys say are the best ones under $5,000?


----------



## astrostar59

music alchemist said:


> So aside from the KGSSHV Carbon and Liquid Lightning, which electrostatic amps would you guys say are the best ones under $5,000?


 

 Who said the LL was good?


----------



## paradoxper

MacedonianHero seems to enjoy his. Again, what's best according to other people's ears. MA hasn't heard anything in that realm.


----------



## Music Alchemist

I said _aside from those two, as in not counting them regardless of how good they are_, which are the best ones in that price range, in your opinion?


----------



## paradoxper

music alchemist said:


> I said _aside from those two, as in not counting them regardless of how good they are_, which are the best ones in that price range, in your opinion?


 
 Why aside from those two. You have no reference of any of those amplifiers. And you can crawl the threads to gather data points and people's preferences on gear.
  
 No desire to get into a ****ting fest, you seem a bit lazy.


----------



## Music Alchemist

paradoxper said:


> Why aside from those two. You have no reference of any of those amplifiers. And you can crawl the threads to gather data points and people's preferences on gear.
> 
> No desire to get into a ****ting fest, you seem a bit lazy.


 
  
 My reasons are my own. I want to know the best alternatives in that price range.
  
 If you're not going to answer my question, don't reply to my post.


----------



## paradoxper

I understand you're so incredibly busy and don't have the time to read around.
  
 For those truly interested there's some great info in all the Stax threads and around the internet.


----------



## Music Alchemist

paradoxper said:


> I understand you're so incredibly busy and don't have the time to read around.
> 
> For those truly interested there's some great info in all the Stax threads and around the internet.


 
  
 I've spent countless hours reading about electrostatic amps. All I can recall off the top of my head (in this context) are the DIY designs like the KGSSHV, KGSS, KGST, etc. I figured people in this thread may know of more.


----------



## MacedonianHero

paradoxper said:


> MacedonianHero seems to enjoy his. Again, what's best according to other people's ears. MA hasn't heard anything in that realm.


 
 LL2 to clarify.


----------



## Music Alchemist

macedonianhero said:


> LL2 to clarify.


 
  
 Yeah, when I said Liquid Lightning, I just meant any version of it. It's sold out until sometime next year, unfortunately.


----------



## MacedonianHero

music alchemist said:


> Yeah, when I said Liquid Lightning, I just meant any version of it. It's sold out until sometime next year, unfortunately.


 
  
 The first wasn't the greatest to my ears (owned it too), but the LL2 and LL2T (tubed version) really kicked things up a few notches!


----------



## Music Alchemist

macedonianhero said:


> The first wasn't the greatest to my ears (owned it too), but the LL2 and LL2T (tubed version) really kicked things up a few notches!


 
  
 So I heard—from you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I kind of want a full-size KGSSHV Carbon, but don't know how to get one. Perhaps when the time comes, I could post a wanted ad in the amplification for sale section to either commission a build or get a used one. I also heard about a Circlotron edition, which would be preferable, but I have no clue about the cost or wait period.
  
 Since by all accounts the HE 1060 is a lot better than the SR-009, my strategy has been revised. Now I'm not worried about collecting high-end electrostat amps to use with STAX; instead, getting just one excellent one to tide me over should be enough.


----------



## Tinkerer

I've been collecting the parts for my KGSSHV Circlotron "Nanotube". Got the boards and 90+% components. Cut and drilled the brackets myself. Have the case picked out but waiting for the store to get new stock. Still gotta grab the transformers and a few more bits of hardware. Looks to be about a $1600-1700 build. Call it $2k with odds and ends. But then I'm using a cheaper RK27 pot with a bypass switch to control volume directly from my preamp instead of a RK50. The main advantage of the RK50 being perfect tracking, no real point to me using it when I've got a perfectly serviceable digital attenuator upstream.
  
 Very high voltage and pretty labor intensive. Ten boards compared to what, four on an offboard KGSSHV? And those floating power supplies necessitate a big ass case to fit everything in one box. I don't imagine them being made regularly due to all that. But then BHSE's are so what do I know.


----------



## Music Alchemist

tinkerer said:


> I've been collecting the parts for my KGSSHV Circlotron "Nanotube". Got the boards and 90+% components. Cut and drilled the brackets myself. Have the case picked out but waiting for the store to get new stock. Still gotta grab the transformers and a few more bits of hardware. Looks to be about a $1600-1700 build. Call it $2k with odds and ends. But then I'm using a cheaper RK27 pot with a bypass switch to control volume directly from my preamp instead of a RK50. The main advantage of the RK50 being perfect tracking, no real point to me using it when I've got a perfectly serviceable digital attenuator upstream.
> 
> Very high voltage and pretty labor intensive. Ten boards compared to what, four on an offboard KGSSHV? And those floating power supplies necessitate a big ass case to fit everything in one box. I don't imagine them being made regularly due to all that. But then BHSE's are so what do I know.


 
  
 Wow, only $2K?! That's dirt cheap compared to what I thought it was going to be!
  
 But I thought the Nanotube was a different amp entirely...?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/774767/nanotube-the-newest-electrostatic-amp-by-kevin-gilmore
  
 Or perhaps the Nanotube is a design that can be incorporated into different amps?
  
 Is this amp you're building still a KGSSHV Carbon even though it has Circlotron and Nanotube in the name?
  
 What would you estimate the build time to be? I hope I can find someone to make one for me! I have no knowledge or skill when it comes to building amps...


----------



## Tinkerer

Yeah, it's that one, though the PSU is not dual. It's split into two boards for easier placement in a case. Even all the files say KGSSHV Circlotron in the linked thread. It's at the stage where some people are successfully testing the 900 HV boards and the driver boards so it's coming along. Someone will probably have one up and running by Christmas. I'm not in a rush for mine. I just want to make sure everything is done right the first time.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

music alchemist said:


> So I heard—from you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 why are you not shopping at spritzers website?


----------



## wink

You mean this place?
 http://www.mjolnir-audio.com/


----------



## Keithpgdrb

wink said:


> You mean this place?
> http://www.mjolnir-audio.com/


 

 yep.  Thats the only place I would shop for a non stax amp.  personally.


----------



## paradoxper

music alchemist said:


> So I heard—from you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Spritzer is the only one putting out commercial Carbon's. And I recall him saying he wasn't going to do Circlotrons for the general public. Could be wrong, though.


----------



## Music Alchemist

tinkerer said:


> Yeah, it's that one, though the PSU is not dual. It's split into two boards for easier placement in a case. Even all the files say KGSSHV Circlotron in the linked thread. It's at the stage where some people are successfully testing the 900 HV boards and the driver boards so it's coming along. Someone will probably have one up and running by Christmas. I'm not in a rush for mine. I just want to make sure everything is done right the first time.


 
  
 Really? So the Nanotube is actually a KGSSHV Circlotron?
  
 *looks at my own thread* Wow, how did I miss that? XD (Multitasking will be the death of me...)
  
 Look at this part of the outboard board!
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






  
 It says "Nanotube" KGSSHV Carbon Circlotron. So it has everything in the name. But I don't know whether the "proper name" should have Nanotube at the end or what. I asked him on the thread what the full proper name of the amp is.
  


keithpgdrb said:


> why are you not shopping at spritzers website?


 
  
 I want a full-size KGSSHV Carbon, plus I want it to be the supposedly better Circlotron/Nanotube version. He only sells mini KGSSHV Carbons now. Plus he blacklisted me because I shared something he said. (Horror of horrors. haha)
  


paradoxper said:


> Spritzer is the only one putting out commercial Carbon's. And I recall him saying he wasn't going to do Circlotrons for the general public. Could be wrong, though.


 
  
 I'll just have to find a DIY builder who can craft something to my specifications, including an all-black chassis. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 He told me he isn't going to build a Nanotube, but then, on this page, he says this:
  


> I will also build at least one Circlotron but it is one scary amplifier so it is firmly on the back burner.


 
  
 So I dunno...


----------



## paradoxper

Good luck finding a builder. Do your homework on the vast array of DIY'ers out there.
  
 I thought he said something to the effect of 'I'm not putting Circlotrons in the hands of stupid people.'


----------



## soren_brix

music alchemist said:


> So aside from the KGSSHV Carbon and Liquid Lightning, which electrostatic amps would you guys say are the best ones under $5,000?


 
 That is indeed an interesting question *Music Alzheimist*, I'd be especially interested in amps at $4,660 or $4.940 - I believe they will fit the piano concert in mol by Mozart the best ...


----------



## Ali-Pacha

MA, I will be rude, but can't you really help your Jack-Russel-like enthusiasm flooding this thread ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I mean, I do respect the passion, I do understand you want to share it with people, and that's what head-fi is all about (enthusiasm, passion...and hype), but it looks like you are always asking the same questions and never take answers into account (thus sarcastic joke from soren). Far west style, I would say "write first, understand next" (or never ?)
  
 Stax world is pretty simple and consistent over the years, we are not talking ortho FOTM (sometimes FOTW !) or iteration n°7853421 of some Audio-GD DAC. I won't play the old fart (subscribed 2013) that praises good ol' days, but hey, Stax thread used to be the most useful ressource in the hobby, and I can assure your compulsive way of posting is kind of a reppellent to people who may provide well documented infos, or simply could give well-known answers but hoping it'll be taken into account (useful, to sum-up) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## soren_brix

music alchemist said:


> Plus he blacklisted me because I shared something he said. (Horror of horrors. haha)


 
 That is so very hard to believe Musick Alchemist


----------



## Music Alchemist

ali-pacha said:


> MA, I will be rude, but can't you really help your Jack-Russel-like enthusiasm flooding this thread ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Fair enough, but this whole Circlotron thing is worth discussing.


----------



## soren_brix

music alchemist said:


> Fair enough, but this whole Circlotron thing is worth discussing.


 
 I totally agree ... it is so totally worth discussing whether it is called "Nanotube" or Circlotron or what ever ...
  
 To cut to the bone and being very simplistic: the Circlotron is a topology - look it up, there are several articles to be found.
 Kevin has done an amp based on that topology and used the Carbon as the driver (not entirely true but close enough) for an output circuit based on a Circlotron topology.
 You can hook up the Circlotron driver as an amp (not recommended though, requires a few tweaks).
 The Circlotron comprises a full Carbon + 4 PSU similar to the Carbon PSU (being simplistic here) and a pair of output boards
 10 boards + 3 transformers and quite a bit of real estate


----------



## Music Alchemist

soren_brix said:


> I totally agree ... it is so totally worth discussing whether it is called "Nanotube" or Circlotron or what ever ...
> 
> To cut to the bone and being very simplistic: the Circlotron is a topology - look it up, there are several articles to be found.
> Kevin has done an amp based on that topology and used the Carbon as the driver (not entirely true but close enough) for an output circuit based on a Circlotron topology.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the explanation. I was aware that Circlotron is a topology. (For example, it's in the Schiit Ragnarok.) I just get worked up when I can't figure out what the name for a product is. The outboard board says "Nanotube" KGSSHV Carbon Circlotron...but until I receive official confirmation, I'm just gonna put the Nanotube part at the end.


----------



## soren_brix

music alchemist said:


> Thanks for the explanation. I was aware that Circlotron is a topology. (For example, it's in the Schiit Ragnarok.) I just get worked up when I can't figure out what the name for a product is. The outboard board says "Nanotube" KGSSHV Carbon Circlotron...but until I receive official confirmation, I'm just gonna put the Nanotube part at the end.


 
 Mayby if the amp was called Dildo-lube, it would be appropriate to at it in the end


----------



## Sorrodje

@soren_brix: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  ... use the ignore button... you'll see how it helps to keep calm.


----------



## georgep

paradoxper said:


> Spritzer is the only one putting out commercial Carbon's. And I recall him saying he wasn't going to do Circlotrons for the general public. Could be wrong, though.




Whether it is a safety issue or not, the cost/price ratio of a circlotron or t2 doesn't even come close to that of a carbon. For the time it takes to successfully build one t2 you could probably build 10 or more carbons. Haven't started my circlotron yet so not sure what the labour side would be - guessing it would be pretty steep, though not quite the amount of work a t2 takes.


----------



## soren_brix

georgep said:


> Whether it is a safety issue or not, the cost/price ratio of a circlotron or t2 doesn't even come close to that of a carbon. For the time it takes to successfully build one t2 you could probably build 10 or more carbons. Haven't started my circlotron yet so not sure what the labour side would be - guessing it would be pretty steep, though not quite the amount of work a t2 takes.


 
 Well, haven't build a T2, but have build a Circlotron and as you say, the time it takes is considerably more than building a Carbon - there are so much more that potentially can go wrong building something like T2 or Circlotron.


----------



## Jones Bob

sorrodje said:


> @soren_brix
> :    ... use the ignore button... you'll see how it helps to keep calm.




Serenity Now!


----------



## paradoxper

georgep said:


> Whether it is a safety issue or not, the cost/price ratio of a circlotron or t2 doesn't even come close to that of a carbon. For the time it takes to successfully build one t2 you could probably build 10 or more carbons. Haven't started my circlotron yet so not sure what the labour side would be - guessing it would be pretty steep, though not quite the amount of work a t2 takes.


 
 I really do think the focus was being a safety issue. Last I heard Spritzer was suppose to do a T2 run. However with all the projects going on who knows if/when it happens.
 I'd surmise the same could go for a Circlotron run. Yes, an exorbitant build, but that's not an issue for some of us.


----------



## Rhamnetin

georgep said:


> Whether it is a safety issue or not, the cost/price ratio of a circlotron or t2 doesn't even come close to that of a carbon. For the time it takes to successfully build one t2 you could probably build 10 or more carbons.


 
  
 And then when you consider that Birgir likes the KGSSHV Carbon better than the T2 every way, you'll see why he won't bother building many.  Also does anyone have any ideas as to what HeadAmp will do without the BHSE?  Will they start producing another electrostatic amp in its place?


----------



## georgep

rhamnetin said:


> And then when you consider that Birgir likes the KGSSHV Carbon better than the T2 every way, you'll see why he won't bother building many.  Also does anyone have any ideas as to what HeadAmp will do without the BHSE?  Will they start producing another electrostatic amp in its place?


 
  
 Well, there are a few things to consider with your first point - 1) so far he is alone in that view among those who have heard both, 2) his T2 to my understanding is still not trouble-free, and 3) if I were building and selling amplifiers I would steer far away from the T2.
 On your second point, only time will tell and certainly people can speculate all they want. So far, Justin has indicated there will be another run of BHSE which likely means another year or two at least.


----------



## joseph69

georgep said:


> Justin has indicated there will be another run of BHSE which likely means another year or two at least.


 
 Correct, the current is batch #4 and there will be a batch #5 which will be the final batch.


----------



## clovisclover

Help!
 I received my 2170 system yesterday from Japan. I listened them for a couple of hours throughout the day and they sounded fine. I listened to one song just before going to bed, then left music playing at a very low volume overnight. Today when I went to listen to them, there is significant channel volume imbalance. The right channel plays at the normal level while the left channel is severely attenuated. I troubleshooted with my friends set up (older amp with dual channel pot) and determined that the headphones are the problem and that if the right channel were at 9 o'clock, the left channel would have to be at 12 o'clock to sound even.
  
 What should I do?


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Uh. They are new. Return them.


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

clovisclover said:


> Help!
> I received my 2170 system yesterday from Japan. I listened them for a couple of hours throughout the day and they sounded fine. I listened to one song just before going to bed, then left music playing at a very low volume overnight. Today when I went to listen to them, there is significant channel volume imbalance. The right channel plays at the normal level while the left channel is severely attenuated. I troubleshooted with my friends set up (older amp with dual channel pot) and determined that the headphones are the problem and that if the right channel were at 9 o'clock, the left channel would have to be at 12 o'clock to sound even.
> 
> What should I do?


 

 Contact the seller first thing, before you do the return. Usually sellers say you return item at your expense, but some may pay the postage, amazon for one.
 PS keep them running in to see if there are anymore changes.


----------



## joseph69

Where were they purchased from?


----------



## bearFNF

You might also try grounding the pins on the headphone cable to discharge the diaphragms, could be one side has built up an abnormal charge. Then let them sit for few days unplugged to let any residual charge dissipate. 

If they are still not working after that then you may need to return/exchange/repair the earspeakers.


----------



## soren_brix

bearfnf said:


> Then let them sit for few days unplugged to let any residual charge dissipate.


 
 not sure this is a good advice. It probably won't discharge without being shorted
 Unplug it, short it using a finger or some metal ... I've had a few with an imbalance and the cure was to unplug it a few times, short the pins and re-plug it ...


----------



## bearFNF

soren_brix said:


> not sure this is a good advice. It probably won't discharge without being shorted
> 
> Unplug it, short it using a finger or some metal ... I've had a few with an imbalance and the cure was to unplug it a few times, short the pins and re-plug it ...



The sitting for a few days was in case these got shipped via air to the OP. It will allow the diaphragms to equalize and relax if there is a pressure issue also. There were instances of the diaphragms getting stuck due to pressure differential during shipping. 

May not need this step according to the situation and results of shorting the pins. 

Just suggestions, no guarantees. ..


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

Del


----------



## clovisclover

Thanks for the advice, I will try shorting the pins, letting the headphones sit unplugged for a few days, and then seeing what happens. I let them play for most of today until I got back home, and it seems like the imbalance issue has gotten marginally better, but I could also just be imagining it. 
  


joseph69 said:


> Where were they purchased from?


 
 I purchased them from ebay. I will get in contact with the seller and let him know what's going on, hopefully there isn't too bad of a language barrier. Hopefully the issue can be resolved and I won't have to mail anything back to Japan.


----------



## bearFNF

labrat said:


> How can pressure differences during air freight make diaphragms cling to stators?
> Please explain?


 
 I did not say anything about diaphragms clinging to stators.
  
 But I should have put that these were the theories at the times when there has been a lot of churn on the imbalance issues.
 Was on my phone and did not elaborate where the statement came from. I am not going explain it. Some one else can do that. or you can go back and read all the posts on it.
  
 However, I have seen similar issues with products we use, when something that is pressurized and sealed is assembled at sea level and then goes to, say, Denver or somewhere in the mountains, and it is not working properly due to the difference in altitude. Also, I have firsthand experience with damage to sealed chambers due to the altitude during flight.


----------



## soren_brix

bearfnf said:


> I did not say anything about diaphragms clinging to stators.
> 
> But I should have put that these were the theories at the times when there has been a lot of churn on the imbalance issues.
> Was on my phone and did not elaborate where the statement came from. I am not going explain it. Some one else can do that. or you can go back and read all the posts on it.
> ...


 
 so basically what you're saying is that a flight may damage only one side of the driver? ... could happen but I don't believe it would be a common issue ...if it should be the case I guess it would be visible at the protection film ... should it be suck'ed in due to lower pressure ...I'd stick  a small hole in the dust protection film and repair it with a small piece of tape....


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

Dl


----------



## Keithpgdrb

clovisclover said:


> Thanks for the advice, I will try shorting the pins, letting the headphones sit unplugged for a few days, and then seeing what happens. I let them play for most of today until I got back home, and it seems like the imbalance issue has gotten marginally better, but I could also just be imagining it.
> 
> I purchased them from ebay. I will get in contact with the seller and let him know what's going on, hopefully there isn't too bad of a language barrier. Hopefully the issue can be resolved and I won't have to mail anything back to Japan.


 

 having the cans play constently over a period of days is a good idea, as is shorting the pins.  I dont think your hearing is playing tricks on you.   I have heard of many instances where this solves the imbalance problem.  Leaving them unplugged and not playing is not something I have heard of.


----------



## soren_brix

labrat said:


> There are no sealed chambers in an electrostatic panel.
> No pressurized compartments.
> So that would be a myth only.


 
 to my knowledge most Stax drivers are sealed front and back to prevent dust from entering the driver.
 If for some reason there is a slight vaccum inside I guess it would visible from  the film being very tight. Usually the dust protection film is a bit loose.


----------



## clovisclover

keithpgdrb said:


> having the cans play constently over a period of days is a good idea, as is shorting the pins.  I dont think your hearing is playing tricks on you.   I have heard of many instances where this solves the imbalance problem.  Leaving them unplugged and not playing is not something I have heard of.


 
 UPDATE:
 For today, I've been using the balance in my music playing software to compensate for the attenuation from the left channel. I've noticed that the attenuation gets smaller and smaller the longer I keep listening to them, and I can track/measure this because I have to adjust the balance closer to center. For a few glorious moments this evening, everything was centered.
 However, after I put them down for a bit (without turning the amp off) and then returned to them, the left channel was attenuated again. I short the pins every couple of hours just to see if it changes anything, and it usually doesn't make a noticeable change, but I keep doing it anyways.
  
 My hunch, after my experience today, is that they are just breaking in as the diaphragm works its way to the voltage it's supposed to be at. Hopefully that's all it is. I'm going to leave them playing for a few days, messing with the balance whenever I actually want to listen to them, and hopefully, everything should fix itself.
  
 While it hasn't been totally fixed yet, at the very least, I've discovered that my issue isn't completely permanent right?


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

Del


----------



## soren_brix

labrat said:


> So no changing air-pressure will deteriorate anything permanent, maybe just immediately then air will enter or leave to adjust.


 
 BearFNF suggested an un-even air pressure causing the imbalance due to his personal experience, and I don't recall BearFNF saying anything about the problem being permanent.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

clovisclover said:


> UPDATE:
> For today, I've been using the balance in my music playing software to compensate for the attenuation from the left channel. I've noticed that the attenuation gets smaller and smaller the longer I keep listening to them, and I can track/measure this because I have to adjust the balance closer to center. For a few glorious moments this evening, everything was centered.
> However, after I put them down for a bit (without turning the amp off) and then returned to them, the left channel was attenuated again. I short the pins every couple of hours just to see if it changes anything, and it usually doesn't make a noticeable change, but I keep doing it anyways.
> 
> ...


 
 I suggest you return them. This kind of behavior is something you could understand for some vintage set (right channel on my Sigma Pro needs around one minute of complete charging for instance), but bias charging should be instantaneous on a new unit.
  
 Ali


----------



## soren_brix

ali-pacha said:


> I suggest you return them. This kind of behavior is something you could understand for some vintage set (right channel on my Sigma Pro needs around one minute of complete charging for instance), but bias charging should be instantaneous on a new unit.
> 
> Ali


 
 you are probably giving the right advice here.
 I just find it puzzeling that the system worked right out of the box - according to the poster - and then suddenly over night there's an imbalance issue?
 Also, "For a few glorious moments this evening, everything was centered" ....
 Can a channel imbalance caused by the earspeakers come and go just like that?


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

Del


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

Del


----------



## soren_brix

labrat said:


> This does not indicate a personal experience.


 
 Agree; my bad I read the post wrongly.


> Originally Posted by *labrat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> And a state of reduced sensitivity a few days after receiving them does indicate some sort of permanent problem.


 
 Agree. But the fluctuation in the magnitude of the problem doesn't excatly point to a charging problem, does it?
  


labrat said:


> This is just myth building, and should not be encouraged.


 
 Agree.
  


> Originally Posted by *labrat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> I too would recommend the OP to return these to the seller, even if having to pay return shipping is a hard lesson against buying on the net instead of from a retailer.


 
 I'd had my fair share of problems buying from local retailer's and as far as I know a lot of people are very satiesfied about PJ.
  


> Originally Posted by *labrat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My headband assy for the 507 did break up just a few weeks after starting to use them, and a new one from Stax USA costs USD420!
> I don't know shipping from here to Japan, but it is not cheap!
> Luckily a new headband is on it's way from Stax in Japan already, as the national retailer here did just order a new one when I shoved him the problem.


 
 Now, that's a story- but don't you forget to take the retail price into account here?


----------



## soren_brix

labrat said:


> If these were not new, according to spritzer, electrostatic panels may experience loss of conductivity over the surface of the diaphragm over time.
> Not for everyone to do a fix of!
> There might also be a case of poor connection where the signal transfer from the diaphragm to the wire, just a case of oxidation there.
> This can be fixed, but I would not recommend if you are not sure you have the skills to do it!


 
 Well, if you have a driver that lost its breath due to the coating having evaporated it probably can get worse than that.
 If you have a bit of patience, a sharp Stanley knife, some glue, and a bottle of antistatic spray you can fix that - not as complicated as some seems to think it is.
 Although I wouldn't try to fix a new pair still on warrenty.


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

Del


----------



## Keithpgdrb

RETURN THEM.  and just be done with it.  my opinion.  you dont have time to waste on this.  there's music to listen to.


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

georgep said:


> Yes, PriceJapan is reputable, and realy the only option outside of authorized dealers. Some dealers can do a bit better than list from what I have heard but pretty sure none can get close to PJ pricing.


 
 I have a very bad experience with PriceJapan. Bought a pair of SC-21, the headphone was still defective, after the 1st repair. Since then, they choose not to answer my email at all. So, please be careful when warranty is needed. For me, my painful experience costs me US$1500 and there's no way, I am going to buy anything from them.

  
 The above was post no 4169 of this thread dated 1/9/15, by  okw3188   Hope it helps.


----------



## Rhamnetin

vgoghs earfrmsc said:


> I have a very bad experience with PriceJapan. Bought a pair of SC-21, the headphone was still defective, after the 1st repair. Since then, they choose not to answer my email at all. So, please be careful when warranty is needed. For me, my painful experience costs me US$1500 and there's no way, I am going to buy anything from them.
> 
> 
> The above was post no 4169 of this thread dated 1/9/15, by  okw3188   Hope it helps.


 
  
 This post and other recent ones are making me reconsider buying from PriceJapan.  I'd save $300, but even if they do provide actual support for me it would take a while to RMA something.  I might just spend the extra money and buy from elusivedisc or Woo Audio.


----------



## Jones Bob

I've bought a bunch of Stax from PJ. 

My last purchase was a SR-L700. Paid thier price two weeks early, before Stax released them. One day after the release, when PJ actulally shipped them the posted price was a lot less. PJ would not refund the difference. Kaneda is dishonest. Last time I will buy from him.


----------



## paradoxper

jones bob said:


> I've bought a bunch of Stax from PJ.
> 
> My last purchase was a SR-L700. Paid thier price two weeks early, before Stax released them. One day after the release, when PJ actulally shipped them the posted price was a lot less. PJ would not refund the difference. Kaneda is dishonest. Last time I will buy from him.


  

  
  
I don't believe you can pre-order like that through PJ. Because the Yen fluctuates daily. Don't you have a 24 hour window from the time you reserve your order to pay at
the listed price. If you don't, it defaults to the current currency rate.
  
 So you did reserve a pair in advance. But you're bitching because they didn't refund you a difference two weeks from
 the price you paid. That goes with the territory of dealing with fluctuating currency rates.


----------



## clovisclover

keithpgdrb said:


> RETURN THEM.  and just be done with it.  my opinion.  you dont have time to waste on this.  there's music to listen to.


 
 Yeah I think this is my best course of action. Thanks for the help though everyone


----------



## Jones Bob

paradoxper said:


> I don't believe you can pre-order like that through PJ. Because the Yen fluctuates daily. Don't you have a 24 hour window from the time you reserve your order to pay at
> the listed price. If you don't, it defaults to the current currency rate.
> 
> So you did reserve a pair in advance. But you're bitching because they didn't refund you a difference two weeks from
> the price you paid. That goes with the territory of dealing with fluctuating currency rates.




A fair quibble. But as a customer, I still feel it was dishonest will not be dealing with him again.


----------



## paradoxper

jones bob said:


> Fair quibble. But I still feel it was dishonest will not be dealing with him again.


 
 Why was he dishonest? Do you feel that way because you were charged a higher price before PJ established a baseline?
  
 I had a similar experience, not really.
  
 PJ does indeed have 24 hour window for payment, though.
  
 Day 1 009 was listed at, say, $2500
 Day 2 009 was listed at, say, $2800
 Day 3 009 was listed at, say, $3000
  
 I reserved my 009 on Day 1. I did not make payment within that 24 hour window.
 So I ended up paying the day 2 price of $2800.
  
 The way this works is logical to me. Now, if you preordered through Elusive Disc and their was some price differential I may
 be a little peeved. Only because I perceive ED as establishing fixed pricing..


----------



## potkettleblack

paradoxper said:


> I don't believe you can pre-order like that through PJ. Because the Yen fluctuates daily. Don't you have a 24 hour window from the time you reserve your order to pay at
> the listed price. If you don't, it defaults to the current currency rate.
> 
> So you did reserve a pair in advance. But you're bitching because they didn't refund you a difference two weeks from
> the price you paid. That goes with the territory of dealing with fluctuating currency rates.


 
 Something that would be honored by my dealer and many others.
  
 Also a little silly because they've now lost a potential returning customer - that and news travels fast.
  
 But yeah, he's just 'bitching'.
  
 You joker, lol.


----------



## paradoxper

potkettleblack said:


> Something that would be honored by my dealer and many others.
> 
> Also a little silly because they've now lost a potential returning customer - that and news travels fast.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm only sharing my understanding of how Kaneda explained they do business. 
  
 "
sorry, because our price going up down based on currency change, our order-mail is valid only for 24 hours.
 
If payment do Not come within 24 hours, order will be cancelled automatically.
 
Please place your order again when you are ready to pay it."


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

Del


----------



## Jones Bob

paradoxper said:


> I'm only sharing my understanding of how Kaneda explained they do business.
> 
> "
> [COLOR=222222]sorry, because our price going up down based on currency change, our order-mail is valid only for 24 hours.[/COLOR]
> ...




Not to beat a dead horse too much. For the sake of clarity there was a drop in the actual Yen value advertised on PJ's website from the presale price to the price shown when the headphones were actually available for them to sell. I find that dishonest.

Lost a customer due their overcharging on the presale, if I would have waited until they actually had product to sell.


----------



## Jones Bob

potkettleblack said:


> But yeah, he's just 'bitching'.


----------



## comzee

Glasgow Kiss from the album Live in Tokyo.
 With my Carbon+009 I feel like this is the first time I've been speechless, just wow.


----------



## potkettleblack

labrat said:


> A marketing strategy would be to advertize that " .. you will be refunded the lower price margins if prices go down.. ".
> And if so I agree you should receive a refund.
> But what if the prices go up?
> I do not see why anyone should feel bad against a seller for the reason Jones Bob do.
> ...


 
 More transparency would be a start. I just think it's a little cheap of them to do. And for sure that is more serious (imo) - but only because it's more blatant. I think both situations can cause an equal amount of distress (for want of a better word) and bitterness.
  
 It's all about trust really. I don't like the thought of a company doing that or having to tread carefully when I order something online.


----------



## shabta

potkettleblack said:


> More transparency would be a start. I just think it's a little cheap of them to do. And for sure that is more serious (imo) - but only because it's more blatant. I think both situations can cause an equal amount of distress (for want of a better word) and bitterness.
> 
> It's all about trust really. I don't like the thought of a company doing that or having to tread carefully when I order something online.



 


Personally, I think you are being too unrealistic. The price they charge is transparent: It is the best price they can find at the time you order, with all the risks that currencies fluctuate, and retailers could at any time raise or lower their price. I don't really get what your beef is, except that if the price goes down you think you deserve a refund. But if the price goes up I guess you wouldn't want to pay them any more. It isn't like they know ahead of time what's gonna happen with retail prices or currencies. It is transparent already. They tell you the cheapest price they can find at the time you order AND pay, and then charge a handling fee. Sheesh.


----------



## sensui123

Heh, I'm guessing most of you guys don't buy regularly from Japan and are accustomed to their business practices.  I've been into many hobbies that require proxy buying and buying from shops in Japan for the last 7 years or so.....yeah....this is how it goes....and the norm.  You celebrate when the exchange rate is awesome and cry when the exchange rate terrifies your wallet.  But the shops themselves aren't to blame.  From what I've seen, I'll most definitely pick up my 009 from PJ.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

PJ is a middle man service, not a company. Bought several things from them, flawless so far, even with warranty.

 Ali


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

Del


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Them, sorry, bit late here !
 Repair or replacement => back to japan.

 Ali


----------



## potkettleblack

shabta said:


> potkettleblack said:
> 
> 
> > More transparency would be a start. I just think it's a little cheap of them to do. And for sure that is more serious (imo) - but only because it's more blatant. I think both situations can cause an equal amount of distress (for want of a better word) and bitterness.
> ...


 
 That 'sheesh' was a great ending to what you said. Really hit it home.
  
 I may have got this round my neck. It was my understanding that he reserved them under a specific price, ordered them and then they tried to charge more after. But If he was only made aware when he went to the checkout (before any money was passed) - that's still piss-poor service. They could have at least sent a notification email. I'm well aware the prices can change. Does the site not have something in place to keep members who have reserved products aware of these changes?


----------



## potkettleblack

After reviewing all of the comments again I'd like to remove myself from this conversation as abruptly as I entered it. I clearly don't know enough about this website to give as strong opinions as I have been giving, and I can only ask that, I or my family are not punished by the Stax mafia for doing so.
  
 I'm drinking beer tomorrow night and going to see the new movie 'Krampus'. So I have a lot to live for. All of this drama is not worth it.


----------



## okw3188

vgoghs earfrmsc said:


> I have a very bad experience with PriceJapan. Bought a pair of SC-21, the headphone was still defective, after the 1st repair. Since then, they choose not to answer my email at all. So, please be careful when warranty is needed. For me, my painful experience costs me US$1500 and there's no way, I am going to buy anything from them.
> 
> 
> The above was post no 4169 of this thread dated 1/9/15, by  okw3188   Hope it helps.


 
 Yes, my bad experience is still haunting me, if I should even recommend anyone to deal with PJ. On the contrary, I bought a pair of SRM-507 from my local dealer, after PJ episode and I have been happy with it on my modified SR-717.


----------



## Michgelsen

Modified 717? What kind of modifications?


----------



## Nemeske88

Dear Forum,
 I am now looking to buy a vintage set of Stax SR3 or SR5 Gold earspeakers. I would like to take the older model, the SR3 but I am afraid of that the membrane of the model is more likely perforated by overdriving or is inferior compared to it's newer model.
 Can you help me to describe the main differences between the two models,  which one is more preferable to obtain? Which one is more comfortable, detailed and reliable etc.? I am well aware of electrostatics sound signature. (I have two Lambdas)


----------



## okw3188

michgelsen said:


> Modified 717? What kind of modifications?


 
*1) De-solder the 2 x 150Kohm resistor on the board and use 2 pieces of* *DALE RN60D 150K 1% instead, then connect it to the gold finger of the board for final stage feedback, based spritzer method.*
  
*2) To increase the input gain sensitivity, solder 2 x VISHAY BCcomponents MRS25 330R 0.6W 1% resistor in parallel to the smd resistor, also base on spritzer method. *


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Aren't you confused with 7*2*7 ? When yes, gain mod is not recommended by Spritzer AFAIK 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## okw3188

Yes, you are right, it's meant for 727. And I can't hear any bad effect on the gain mod.


----------



## georgep

vgoghs earfrmsc said:


> I have a very bad experience with PriceJapan. Bought a pair of SC-21, the headphone was still defective, after the 1st repair. Since then, they choose not to answer my email at all. So, please be careful when warranty is needed. For me, my painful experience costs me US$1500 and there's no way, I am going to buy anything from them.
> 
> 
> The above was post no 4169 of this thread dated 1/9/15, by  okw3188   Hope it helps.




You are quoting one experience, and my recollection was that this fellow demanded a refund and was no longer willing to pay for shipping to have the warranty service performed (because Airbow apparently didn't fix the problem the first time). Price Japan cannot deal with refunds in these circumstances. Don't care one way or the other whether people buy from them, but to date the only issue that caused some concern for me was one highlighted by Arnaud some time ago dealing with a faulty amp.


----------



## Michgelsen

okw3188 said:


> Yes, you are right, it's meant for 727. And I can't hear any bad effect on the gain mod.


 
  
 Ah yes, that doesn't surprise me, and also the reason why I was extra curious about 7*1*7 mods.


----------



## rgs9200m

Just for the record, the SR007 (newest version) sounds quite awesome with a KGSS-HV. I highly recommend this combination. It's especially good with SACD. It's also very comfortable, more so as I feel it than the 009. (And it's far more comfy than the old 007 mk1 version that had thin pads). I have no desire to mod this phone. I kind of like it better overall than the 009, I have to admit, now that I've spent some time with it.


----------



## astrostar59

rgs9200m said:


> Just for the record, the SR007 (newest version) sounds quite awesome with a KGSS-HV. I highly recommend this combination. It's especially good with SACD. It's also very comfortable, more so as I feel it than the 009. (And it's far more comfy than the old 007 mk1 version that had thin pads). I have no desire to mod this phone. I kind of like it better overall than the 009, I have to admit, now that I've spent some time with it.


 

 Ha Ha, YES, I was batting on about this since July 2015 when I got my 007A's from PJ. The KGSShv is a warm sounding amp possibly, but has the dynamics and drive to 'wake up' the 007s and to me it makes a great system. I bought a KGSShv off-board from 'headinclouds' for my 007As for my little system back in the UK and also have another identical KGSShv from headinclouds for my bigger system and my 009s in Spain. I am not sure if the 007 surpasses the 009 though. The 009 has more detail and decay, just more clues to the source. In some cases the warm and smoother treble of the new 007s may suit some DACs and just slot into a system better. The 'brighter' and 'faster' 009s can cause issues with some front ends IMO. Detail comes at a cost, as I have found out by messing with my own DAC and upgraded parts. That detail needs to come through as clean and clear as possible, or listening fatigue is the name of the game. But get it right, and you have landed in 'Audio Nervana' which is exactly where everyone wants to be right?
  
 It is great that Stax have finally 'fixed' the 007s. I had an 2013 007 MK2.5 model which was very lazy and boxy, a difference animal entirely. And if you think the 007 is less than half the cost of the 009, it makes a great high end system for accessible to the wider audiophile market. To me, the 007 and 009 are so good, it kinda spoils things on the speaker front TBH.


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

Del


----------



## georgep

labrat said:


> Why do you try to muddle up the situation told by someone who was not satisfied with using PJ as a seller?
> Your version here does not seem equal to the one you will find if you do investigate the posts made when this situation happened.
> Using PJ is just using a "broker" to find a good deal in a market few people outside of Japan is able to navigate in.
> Once a problem occurs, you are on your own!
> ...




Not muddling anything. Just adding some more detail to the random out of context post that other person made. Your other points are old news - pj is not the same as an authorized dealer and you will not get the same level of service. And yeah, my real name is Kaneda.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

georgep said:


> And yeah, my real name is Kaneda.


 
 I knew it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

Del


----------



## TheAttorney

I've stated in the past that I rate highly the _quality_ of the 009's bass, but could do with a touch more _quantity_. Just a little bit more.
 Also, we occasionally get posts (including from me) about bending out the arc for a lighter pad pressure.
  
 Well, I've taken the latter point out a bit further than before to get a looser fit, which results in an extra touch of deep bass (where it exits in the recording), without impacting overall bass definition.
 Before you try this at home kids, remember that plastic has a habit of snapping if stressed too far, so I'm doing this slowly in stages: bending the arc and holding for several seconds, then seeing how much it reverts back by the next day and then I repeat the exercise. To give an idea, when I originally suspended the 009s using finger/thumb at the top of the arc, the pads would lightly brush against each other. Now the pads are about 1cm apart.
  
 There'll obviously come a tipping point where the pad seal is completely broken and the bass loses control, but I'm enjoying what I'm hearing so far. With the added bonus of a more comfortable fit.
 However, listening to Status Quo albums is now out of the question, obviously.
  
 I do wonder if some of the opposing reactions to the 009's is to do with how "big headed" the person is?


----------



## bmichels

theattorney said:


> I've stated in the past that I rate highly the _quality_ of the 009's bass, but could do with a touch more _quantity_. Just a little bit more...


 
  
 Using a KGSShv Carbon  Amp might bring you that extra bass you are looking for with the SR009


----------



## TheAttorney

Whilst playing around with the 009's pad pressure, I took some time out to try to answer a question that occasionally pops up here: Is there any SQ difference between the different Stax cables?
  
 Well, I think I have the answer for the 925 and 725 2.5m extension cables (designed for 009 and 007 respectively). 
  
 With each extension cable side by side into the two BHSE sockets, I could quickly swap my 009 and 007 Mk1s onto either extension.cable.
 Not completely ideal, as my main test was effectively testing "2.5m 925 + 2.5m 725) against "2.5m 725 + 2.5m 725".
 With such a compromise, I wasn't sure what to expect, but as it turns out I could repeatedly tell the slight difference, which was:
  
 The 925 was slightly clearer and more open, with sharper transients and better image definition. The clarity/openness was 90% a good thing, but did also did show up brighter recordings sometimes.
 In a way, this was like a mini-me version of the differences between the 009s and 007s themselves.
  
 This was by no means a conclusive test (although it was unintentionally an informal blind test, as I couldn't tell the two cables apart in subdued lighting).
 But I'm confident enough of my findings to post the following memo to self:
  
 If ever I have to re cable either the 009 or 007, it's worth the extra cost to get the 925 cable (assuming the pre-cut terminations do actually fit the 007, worth checking).
 But the subtle improvement is not worth the cost and faff of getting the 007 re-cabled if the original cable isn't broken.


----------



## Tinkerer

Mk I's have a different termination from the Mk II and SR-009. I know because it was a bit of a pain to find a replacement cable when I changed mine. Piece of cake to swap out though, minus getting the ear pads back on right. The pads aren't hard once you figure out the trick to it, but it took me a bit to do so the first time.


----------



## vapman

Is it possible to get nice strong bass on the 009 with EQ'ing and a STAX amp or is a KGSSHV pretty much the only way to get enough bass through these?
  
 I am a basshead thru and thru so one man's bass overload is probably my not enough bass.


----------



## purk

bmichels said:


> Using a KGSShv Carbon  Amp might bring you that extra bass you are looking for with the SR009


 
 The KGSSHV Carbon is definitely your answer.  My SR-009 has plenty of bass response out of the Carbon.  It is able to match the HE-1000 bass head on and then some.  The HE-1000 bass is very impressive but it could definitely use an improvement in term of tightness.  With the Carbon, the SR009's bass is rendered with plenty of authority and come at you at greater sense of speed.  If you prefer a "bass bloom" then this may not be the amp for you.  I've been listening to my Carbon for a week now and it has been nothing but an audio nirvana.  One of the Carbon's strongest point is its ability to render huge, deep, and layered soundstage.   It is even slightly outclassed the DIY T2 in the width department and basically match the T2 in depth, but the T2 still has an upper hand in term of term of tonality and textured of the sound.  The biggest improvement going from the full-size KGSSHV amplifier to the Carbon is its resolve ability of inner musical details together with the way it renders them in the sound space.  This combination yields more air/space between each instrument, and very solid spatial cues and imaging.


----------



## Tinkerer

vapman said:


> Is it possible to get nice strong bass on the 009 with EQ'ing and a STAX amp or is a KGSSHV pretty much the only way to get enough bass through these?
> 
> I am a basshead thru and thru so one man's bass overload is probably my not enough bass.


 

 Honestly if you want bass, the SR-007 Mk I or modded Mk II are the best in that department. Or if you want a big dose of midbass, have an unmodded Mk II. I don't really see why you'd be going after something often considered a tad bright if you want bass.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Are SRM-353X reviews out yet? How does it compare to SRM-323S?
  
 Also, where can I find information pertaining to the KGSS amps? As far as my little knowledge of them goes, the same KGSS amps are available from different builders with somewhat different specs? An explanation (link or otherwise) on how the same amp - particularly the KGSShv Carbon - differs in various aspects from one builder/vendor to another would be highly appreciated.
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Michgelsen

ahnafakeef said:


> Are SRM-353X reviews out yet? How does it compare to SRM-323S?
> 
> Also, where can I find information pertaining to the KGSS amps? As far as my little knowledge of them goes, the same KGSS amps are available from different builders with somewhat different specs? An explanation (link or otherwise) on how the same amp - particularly the KGSShv Carbon - differs in various aspects from one builder/vendor to another would be highly appreciated.
> 
> Thank you.


 
  
  
 Because these are DIY amps, there can be some variation between them, because of the ongoing improvements to the design or the need to substitute parts that have become obsolete. This is why you see some KGSS(HV)s with different transistors used, in which case there have been reports of differences in sound. There is, as far as I know, no log kept or centralized documentation available. Information is scattered across various builder threads, or it's in the heads of the Stax Mafia.
 This being said, very few builders design their own PCBs (AFAIK, this only very rarely happens), meaning that almost all of the amps use the 'standard' PCB designs and hence there is a certain unity you can expect between the amps of different builders, provided they use the same board version of course.
 Personally I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## bmichels

purk said:


> The KGSSHV Carbon is definitely your answer.  My SR-009 has plenty of bass response out of the Carbon.  It is able to match the HE-1000 bass head on and then some.  The HE-1000 bass is very impressive but it could definitely use an improvement in term of tightness.  With the Carbon, the SR009's bass is rendered with plenty of authority and come at you at greater sense of speed.  If you prefer a "bass bloom" then this may not be the amp for you.  I've been listening to my Carbon for a week now and it has been nothing but an audio nirvana.  One of the Carbon's strongest point is its ability to render huge, deep, and layered soundstage.   It is even slightly outclassed the DIY T2 in the width department and basically match the T2 in depth, but the T2 still has an upper hand in term of term of tonality and textured of the sound.  The biggest improvement going from the full-size KGSSHV amplifier to the Carbon is its resolve ability of inner musical details together with the way it renders them in the sound space.  This combination yields more air/space between each instrument, and very solid spatial cues and imaging.


 
  
 Will you say that the Carbon is (In your opinion  better than the BHSE for the SR009 ?


----------



## vapman

tinkerer said:


> Honestly if you want bass, the SR-007 Mk I or modded Mk II are the best in that department. Or if you want a big dose of midbass, have an unmodded Mk II. I don't really see why you'd be going after something often considered a tad bright if you want bass.


 

 I had the opportunity to hear both generation 007's but not the 009's yet. I was curious if the 009's were bass anemic compared to the 007's either way.
  If it simply isn't capable of reproducing the same amount or greater bass I'll stick with one of the 007's and skip the 009's.
  
 My KGSSHV is almost done building. I am using my SR-X to hold me over but increasingly going towards IEMs in the meantime. When the KGSSHV is done I will get either the 007 or 009. Hopefully I will have the chance to hear an 009 before I buy one or the other.
  
 I will likely try and integrate a bass boost circuit in it somewhere before it's done. i might steal some cues from the Project Polaris design as well to modify a few parts of the design. the KGSSHV is coming along very nicely but slowly. very very little free time with work... part of the reason i'm increasingly focusing on IEMs. but i must have an electrostatic setup.


----------



## MacedonianHero

vapman said:


> I had the opportunity to hear both generation 007's but not the 009's yet. I was curious if the 009's were bass anemic compared to the 007's either way.
> If it simply isn't capable of reproducing the same amount or greater bass I'll stick with one of the 007's and skip the 009's.
> 
> My KGSSHV is almost done building. I am using my SR-X to hold me over but increasingly going towards IEMs in the meantime. When the KGSSHV is done I will get either the 007 or 009. Hopefully I will have the chance to hear an 009 before I buy one or the other.
> ...


 
  
 Both my SR-007Mk1 and SR-009s have the same amount of bass. It's just that the treble is a bit pushed back on the 007s that makes them sound warmer. But when you focus on the bass, both headphones can bring it equally in terms of thump. But the quality goes to the 009s.


----------



## vapman

macedonianhero said:


> Both my SR-007Mk1 and SR-009s have the same amount of bass. It's just that the treble is a bit pushed back on the 007s that makes them sound warmer. But when you focus on the bass, both headphones can bring it equally in terms of thump. But the quality goes to the 009s.



 


Wonderful! this is just what i was hoping for. now i can spring for the 009's feeling confident 
whats your amp of choice if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## MacedonianHero

vapman said:


> macedonianhero said:
> 
> 
> > Both my SR-007Mk1 and SR-009s have the same amount of bass. It's just that the treble is a bit pushed back on the 007s that makes them sound warmer. But when you focus on the bass, both headphones can bring it equally in terms of thump. But the quality goes to the 009s.
> ...


 
  
 For which the 007s or 009s? What's your budget? Are you adverse to tubes?


----------



## vapman

macedonianhero said:


> For which the 007s or 009s? What's your budget? Are you adverse to tubes?



 


I guess either one. i didn't realize you might have different amp choices for both.
I'm nearing completion of my KGSSHV.
I'm not rich, but I can save up for stuff I want 
I like tubes a lot!


----------



## MacedonianHero

vapman said:


> macedonianhero said:
> 
> 
> > For which the 007s or 009s? What's your budget? Are you adverse to tubes?
> ...


 
  
 Your KGSSHV will be brilliant with both. Keep to it!


----------



## astrostar59

macedonianhero said:


> Your KGSSHV will be brilliant with both. Keep to it!


 

 I agree! You could look at your DAC to take your front end up to the level of the 009/007s and your amp.


----------



## Nemeske88

I don't know if I am posting to the correspondent forum, but I am asking the following:
 I have read once that there is a significant difference between SB (Self-biasing) and non-self biasing transformers regarding the sound quality.
  
 I am asking if this information true and if yes, can anyone tell me in which aspects one can percieve the difference?


----------



## potkettleblack

*Hello all,*
  
I have spoken to somebody in private about this issue, but I would also like as many people as possible to chip in if that's ok.
  
The 009/007's are becoming a very real possibility for me next year; including a few other high-end cans.
  
Since the 009/007's have become a possibility I have been looking into their reliability and to my surprise the more I search the more I am reading about channel imbalance - especially with the 009.
  
Now I know this must be a bit of an eye-rollin' question, and many of you are burnt out talking, stressing, debating about it - but I would like to know or hear a few opinions about the following:
  
1. Has this problem and the cases of this happening shown a reduction?
  
2. Are there many repeat failures?
  
3. Was this issue with older units only? i.e; pre 2014/2015?
  
4  What is the meaning of life?
  
5. Why am I being asked to donate to lions and tigers, when given the opportunity both would eat me with no hesitation.
  
  
Thanks in advance
  
Lee


----------



## Michgelsen

Did you read this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/555908/stax-sr-009-channel-imbalance-trouble-driver-problem ?​
 According to the last posts, it still happens sometimes on recently made units.


----------



## astrostar59

My route was buy the 009s from a UK dealer or your country dealer, (and swallow the cost) or buy the 007As from PJ as they seem to have fewer cases of Channel imbalance and thus less risk.
  
 Having said that, I have heard on here about around 10 cases. They all seemed to malfunction inside a few weeks, so a return was no issue. 
 You get 2 years cover in the UK or Europe.
  
 Get the 009s is my view. Then see if you 'need' anything else. The thing is, to see what the 009s can do, you need a good amp (non Stax) and a good DAC. So factor that in. You can't realistically put the 009s on the end of a mid-fi and expect it to sound remarkable. Remember the 009s are like a 100K speaker, so they need to be driven by good gear.


----------



## potkettleblack

I did thank you - I just wanted to gather some info from here as well in case others has missed that thread.


----------



## potkettleblack

I would like to hear them with the new 353x amp if I'm honest. I've heard them on two Stax amps (I can't remember which one was which), one was very good (to my ears) and the other one really wasn't.
  
 My source would be a macbook - something I strongly believe I would be happy with until I decide to upgrade. I understand the value of a good DAC, but when I heard them (the time they amazed me), it was with a macbook DAC. I'm sure they get a lot better, but if I'm gunning to be 'amazed' that's a good start.
  
 I have a big choice of the totl cans in around Feb and the 009's are a big consideration.
  
 Maybe the L700'S would be a safer option...


----------



## astrostar59

potkettleblack said:


> I would like to hear them with the new 353x amp if I'm honest. I've heard them on two Stax amps (I can't remember which one was which), one was very good (to my ears) and the other one really wasn't. I would try and get a second hand KGSS at least. A Stax amp won't hack it IMO.
> 
> My source would be a macbook - something I strongly believe I would be happy with until I decide to upgrade. I understand the value of a good DAC, but when I heard them (the time they amazed me), it was with a macbook DAC. I'm sure they get a lot better, but if I'm gunning to be 'amazed' that's a good start. Not sure what you mean? If you use AIFFs and Audirvana+ out via USB to even a 1K DAC you will be getting there. Look at the Schlit Audio DACs for high quality at bargain prices.
> 
> ...


----------



## potkettleblack

I have replied to your pm. Thanks.


----------



## vapman

I would never buy a new 007 or 009 (or any other very high end stax for that matter) from somewhere that didn't offer really, really good warranty.
 I would buy a used set from a fellow Head-fi'er, but only if it was treated well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 For the amount of money being spent, and no other reason, I would want pretty good warranty.
 When buying high end electrostatics like the 007 or 009 you have to expect some amount of inconsistency from model to model. It is like a rolls royce.


----------



## paradoxper

And what is your expectation of really good warranty?


----------



## astrostar59

I would NOT buy from another headier here, as they will be WORN OUT! Seriously, buy the 009s from your country dealer, buy the 007As from PJ. PJ have taken back and sorted some 009s in the past, but the 007As are much less prone to imbalance as far as I have read to date. Unless someone here knows different?
  
 Warranty is 2 years legally for all consumer electronics in Europe, it may be only 1 year in the USA? 
  
 In my view, aside from the few issues in the 009s, headphones in general are quite fragile things and get thrown about and dropped, as they are a wearable item, unlike an amp (unless you are really weird and wear your amps as well Ha Ha.
  
 Aside from all this OCD stuff, just buy the thing. It makes me smile when I wake up, and makes me rush home after work, and makes me happy listening to my music, what more do you want? I don't remember doing that for any woman I have ever known..... and they don't come with a return policy Ha Ha. Plus sex doesn't tend to last as long as a CD either.....


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> *I would NOT buy from another headier here, as they will be WORN OUT!* Seriously, buy the 009s from your country dealer, buy the 007As from PJ. PJ have taken back and sorted some 009s in the past, but the 007As are much less prone to imbalance as far as I have read to date. Unless someone here knows different?
> 
> Warranty is 2 years legally for all consumer electronics in Europe, it may be only 1 year in the USA?
> 
> ...


 
 You can say that again!
 I'm waiting on a 007A MKll from PJ which is where I purchased my 009 from (which I sold) and I have no problem with dealing with them…at all.


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> I would NOT buy from another headier here, as they will be WORN OUT! Seriously, buy the 009s from your country dealer, buy the 007As from PJ. PJ have taken back and sorted some 009s in the past, but the 007As are much less prone to imbalance as far as I have read to date. Unless someone here knows different?
> 
> Warranty is 2 years legally for all consumer electronics in Europe, it may be only 1 year in the USA?
> 
> ...


 
 shaking your hand as fast as you post I understand why it doesn't last as long as a CD ...


----------



## Michgelsen

astrostar59 said:


> I would NOT buy from another headier here, as they will be WORN OUT!


 
  
 Bollocks. Stax headphones do not 'wear out'. Yeah, the pads maybe, but they are easily replaced.


----------



## vapman

It's not like I'd buy a 009 from someone with 0 feedback. I don't think many people with 0 feedback even own a 009 to sell. Additionally, I seriously doubt any 007/009 owners leave these models lying around, get dropped, abused, whatever. If there was someone like that, it's their headphone. I would gladly pay a lower price for a cosmetically beat up one, I'm not looking at it when it's on my head 
  
 also buying things in the used domain has no warranty, of course. yes you get buyer protection that you received what you bought in the shape it was supposed to arrive in... but if i bought used 009s and something happened to them I'd be busting out the soldering station.
  
 I've seen & heard a lot of vintage Stax that all works absolutely perfectly and without a flaw. I always buy new pads when I buy used headphones, anyway. I've never used pads that shipped on headphones I bought.
  
 You can bet if I see a dinged up 009 missing pads for a nice price I'd buy it though!
  
 Anyway, I'm glad I have a wife I can't wait to come home to every day, and I'm glad to have electrostatics too, and I've switched to computer based playback as CD's don't suit my needs @astrostar59. speak for yourself though


----------



## Tinkerer

A main advantage of buying a used one is you're even less likely to have one with imbalance issues since they seem to always crop up in the warranty period of the new ones. So the defective ones get replaced. It's funny that used are a safer buy in that respect.


----------



## vapman

tinkerer said:


> A main advantage of buying a used one is you're even less likely to have one with imbalance issues since they seem to always crop up in the warranty period of the new ones. So the defective ones get replaced. It's funny that used are a safer buy in that respect.


 

 Haha, hadn't thought of this, but it's also a very good point.
 Thing is, I would rather get a new one than a used one, it's just that if I see a 009 used for the right price I wouldn't hesitate to buy one someone's already burned in 
  


paradoxper said:


> And what is your expectation of really good warranty?


 
  
 Sorry, I didn't see this earlier.
 Sounds like from reading the thread there's a decent number of people who reached out to PJ for warranty support and got radio silence.
 I'm not terribly surprised a middleman service like PJ can only do so much to facilitate warranty and sometimes has no way of doing that.
  
 So, what I mean by "really good warranty" is if I shell out the $$$$ for a new 009, that if I even think I have channel imbalance I can send it back and have someone verify if mine or okay or not. Should they break during the warranty period, I would expect a response from the dealer the same week to make arrangements for me to send mine back and have it serviced or replaced.
  
 In my opinion that doesn't sound like terribly much to ask for if i'm working with a dealer who only sells headphones in the four digit number price range. If I had to wait 2 or more weeks even for a reply, well, I'd rather save the money buying used and depend on myself to fix anything that goes wrong.
  
 I'm not scared of repairing anything myself, but if I'm paying full price I would at least want to know if anything happens I will be taken care of.
  
 I don't have unrealistic expectations of warranty. I wouldn't spill a drink on my 009's or knock them off a table and try to claim warranty service...


----------



## mulveling

LOL at all those poor worn out 009's. 
  
 Anyone who throws around my 009 will soon find themselves thrown around. I think 009s are one of the least likely headphones to be mishandled, aside from running it out of one of the known flawed amps. You must be thinking of Beats by Dre?


----------



## mulveling

vapman said:


> Sounds like from reading the thread there's a decent number of people who reached out to PJ for warranty support and got radio silence.
> I'm not terribly surprised a middleman service like PJ can only do so much to facilitate warranty and sometimes has no way of doing that.
> 
> So, what I mean by "really good warranty" is if I shell out the $$$$ for a new 009, that if I even think I have channel imbalance I can send it back and have someone verify if mine or okay or not. Should they break during the warranty period, I would expect a response from the dealer the same week to make arrangements for me to send mine back and have it serviced or replaced.


 
 Make sure you buy yours from a place with a return policy, for when you get your buyer's remorse.


----------



## joseph69

mulveling said:


> Make sure you buy yours from a place with a return policy, for when you get your buyer's remorse.


 
 Return policies for Stax only apply to an un-opened box.


----------



## purk

I suggest you guys to buy my well used but fully working SR-009 if you worry so much about buying it from Pricejapan. My SR009 has been sounding better than most 009s since it has spent most of its life out of the socket of the DIY T2 and BHSE with NOS tube. Plus I purchased mine before the took over period. The frame is made out of a Japanese T1061 aluminum and not the Chinese equivalent. It will continue to sound better than other SR009 as I also paid nearly 4K for it.......I kid...I kid. 

Seriously though, just contact Justin Wilson and buy it from him to get a full US warranty if you guys are worried about the imbalanced issue. He maybe able to provide a discount if you ever get a hold of him.


----------



## vapman

@purk who is Justin Wilson? is he StaxUSA?


----------



## purk

vapman said:


> @purk who is Justin Wilson? is he StaxUSA?


 
 He is an owner of headamp.com...the guy who handcrafts every BHSE.


----------



## rgs9200m

You can still get Stax phones from the extended elusive disc 15% off sale at $3782 w/full American warranty. I think it ends very shortly, like midnight today.
 This is as reliable as it gets.


----------



## Rhamnetin

mulveling said:


> LOL at all those poor worn out 009's.
> 
> Anyone who throws around my 009 will soon find themselves thrown around. I think 009s are one of the least likely headphones to be mishandled, aside from running it out of one of the known flawed amps. You must be thinking of Beats by Dre?


 
  
 The funny thing is, I would think the SR-009 would handle such abuse better than most other headphones.  It's one of the best built headphones I've come across.


----------



## vapman

Didnt


purk said:


> He is an owner of headamp.com...the guy who handcrafts every BHSE.


 

 I didn't realize he sold earspeakers too. That's neat, and good to know, thanks.


----------



## bearFNF

The headband clips are the 009's Achilles heal. I have seen about four of them broken at meets. Even have looked into making my own clips out of steel.

PS if you follow the directions in the manual for adjusting the headband you shouldn't have any problems. It is when someone pushes up from the bottom of the clip instead of pinching the sides that it breaks IMO.


----------



## Currawong

michgelsen said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > I would NOT buy from another headier here, as they will be WORN OUT!
> ...


 
  
 With the 009s though, the ear pads are considered a part that needs to be sent back for servicing. The last person I spoke to (in the USA) was told they had to pay something like $700 to replace arcs, head-pad and ear pads.


----------



## Michgelsen

I have read before that a replacement arc is very costly, which I don't really get, and $700 for the whole bunch sounds outrageous. Does anybody here have experience with replacing the pads on the 009 by yourself? Is it easily done?


----------



## astrostar59

michgelsen said:


> Bollocks. Stax headphones do not 'wear out'. Yeah, the pads maybe, but they are easily replaced.


 

 Bollocks, the lead can get strain injury (my 007s needed a new cable). The frames can get damaged, the joints can wear loose. The plug and cable unit can get loose. They can be dropped. The drivers can get dust problems. They can get damp problems. Have I missed any? I have read some drivers do fail due to age as well, though I agree, some old Lambdas still work ok.
  
 Oh yes, the drivers can get damaged by an amp, i.e. pumping out too much bias, shorting, going out of spec. A tube Stax amp may fail and damage the phones? A power surge. My dog jumped on my lead and broke the cable entry on my old 007s. Ants may eat the membrane. 
  
 Want more?
  
 basically, buy a well used phone and you get, err, a well used phone. Find a little used phone, you get, err, a newer phone!


----------



## Michgelsen

Yes, you're right, when you're careless, you can do all kinds of damaging things to your headphones. However, if you use them normally and by that I mean normally carefully like most of us here, they will be fine. They do not degrade by playing music or 'wear out' in that sense. Plenty of 007s never get any cable problems. Just don't step on the cable when you're wearing them and you should be fine.
  
 Buying used around here often gets you almost-as-new quality for half the price. I would never have got my 007 via a regular dealer here in the Netherlands for the silly money they ask for it. I hope the rumours turn out to be true that Stax is trying to make the prices more uniform around the globe. That would change the situation for me, which is good for the local dealers as well. That reminds me, I should go and ask what a L700 costs here...


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> Bollocks, the lead can get strain injury (my 007s needed a new cable). The frames can get damaged, the joints can wear loose. The plug and cable unit can get loose. They can be dropped. The drivers can get dust problems. They can get damp problems. Have I missed any? I have read some drivers do fail due to age as well, though I agree, some old Lambdas still work ok.
> 
> Oh yes, the drivers can get damaged by an amp, i.e. pumping out too much bias, shorting, going out of spec. A tube Stax amp may fail and damage the phones? A power surge. My dog jumped on my lead and broke the cable entry on my old 007s. Ants may eat the membrane.
> 
> ...


 
 do you really need to rub your bollocks with the Stax so fast, hard and relentlessly ... does NB last longer by the way, errrrrr?


----------



## potkettleblack

anymore opinions on the L700?


----------



## edstrelow

astrostar59 said:


> Bollocks, the lead can get strain injury (my 007s needed a new cable). The frames can get damaged, the joints can wear loose. The plug and cable unit can get loose. They can be dropped. The drivers can get dust problems. They can get damp problems. Have I missed any? I have read some drivers do fail due to age as well, though I agree, some old Lambdas still work ok.
> 
> Oh yes, the drivers can get damaged by an amp, i.e. pumping out too much bias, shorting, going out of spec. A tube Stax amp may fail and damage the phones? A power surge. My dog jumped on my lead and broke the cable entry on my old 007s. Ants may eat the membrane.
> 
> ...


 
 I bought my first Stax phone, a used SRX MK III in 1978 which I have since sold to a friend and it still runs. While some things can get broken, generally this is the result of misuse , eg. stepping on the cable which wrecked a Sigma, although as the case was fine, I had it rebuilt as the first Sigma/404.
  
 I agree that used is a good way to go. If it is ok when you buy it, you should get a long period of use.


----------



## astrostar59

Fair enough. Like all things buyer be careful. And the same applies to Stax amps that are longish in the tooth. Caps go and transformers melt. Sorry, I am going all doom and gloom again. Just be sensible when buying stuff. Nowadays mobile phones take great photos. If you can't get a hi res photo of it from the seller, don't buy it, period. And for amps, that should include the insides.


----------



## rgs9200m

I had 4 Staxes over the last 15+ years and have never experienced any defect ever. No channel imbalance, nothing physically breaking, and no repairs ever needed. So I would feel confident buying one.


----------



## Jones Bob

potkettleblack said:


> anymore opinions on the L700?




I prefer my SR-L700 to my SR-007 Mk2 off of my KGST. Great sound. 

Never listen to the 007 anymore. They are in the hall closet. 

Either mostly listen to the 009 or sometimes the L700. (or SR-003 Mk2).


----------



## HemiSam

jones bob said:


> I prefer my SR-L700 to my SR-007 Mk2 off of my KGST. Great sound.
> 
> Never listen to the 007 anymore. They are in the hall closet.
> 
> Either mostly listen to the 009 or sometimes the L700. (or SR-003 Mk2).


 
  
 I wish you hadn't posted that.  I very much enjoy the 007A out of my KGST.  Trouble maker...
  
  





  
 HS


----------



## purk

jones bob said:


> I prefer my SR-L700 to my SR-007 Mk2 off of my KGST. Great sound.
> 
> Never listen to the 007 anymore. They are in the hall closet.
> 
> Either mostly listen to the 009 or sometimes the L700. (or SR-003 Mk2).


 
 My pal @ Mulveling is very much in agreement with you.  The SR-L700 and KGST is a great combo.


----------



## sensui123

jones bob said:


> I prefer my SR-L700 to my SR-007 Mk2 off of my KGST. Great sound.
> 
> Never listen to the 007 anymore. They are in the hall closet.
> 
> Either mostly listen to the 009 or sometimes the L700. (or SR-003 Mk2).


 
  
 This is one of those things I'm wondering as I'm learning and slowly waiting for my amps to be ready (BHSE and a KGSSHV Carbon on hold).  I know I'm buying a SR-009 but was thinking if I should pair with a SR-L700 or the SR-007 (one of the variants) as something that complements each other in the electrostat game.  Seems like people are moving toward the new L700.


----------



## vapman

Hmm. maybe I should go straight for the L700 instead of the 009 if i'm buying new.


----------



## Sorrodje

For those who compared the SR-507 and the SR-L700 : How is the bass impact of the L700 compared to the 507 ?


----------



## purk

sensui123 said:


> This is one of those things I'm wondering as I'm learning and slowly waiting for my amps to be ready (BHSE and a KGSSHV Carbon on hold).  I know I'm buying a SR-009 but was thinking if I should pair with a SR-L700 or the SR-007 (one of the variants) as something that complements each other in the electrostat game.  Seems like people are moving toward the new L700.


 
 I have not tried the L700 but can sample one soon enough.  For what's it worth though, the SR-007 is pretty spectacular out of both the BHSE & KGSSHV Carbon.  I would still own it if you have those two amps.


----------



## kugino

anyone want to buy my 007A with channel imbalance? it's in immaculate shape other than the whole, um, imbalance thing. :/

the L700 might be my next buy...hope these aren't prone to imbalance like the 007/009...


----------



## MattTCG

After a very long, and enjoyable journey, I have finally arrived with my first Stax purchase. I bought a very nice condition sr-007 mki and will soon have a nicely fashioned KGSShv. 
  
 Many thanks @purk for all your coaching and guidance.


----------



## astrostar59

matttcg said:


> After a very long, and enjoyable journey, I have finally arrived with my first Stax purchase. I bought a very nice condition sr-007 mki and will soon have a nicely fashioned KGSShv.
> 
> Many thanks @purk for all your coaching and guidance.


 

 NICE. Who built your KGSShv if you don't mind me asking? Enjoy your new (high end) entry point into the weird and wonderful world of Stax headphones.


----------



## Michgelsen

matttcg said:


> After a very long, and enjoyable journey, I have finally arrived with my first Stax purchase. I bought a very nice condition sr-007 mki and will soon have a nicely fashioned KGSShv.
> 
> Many thanks @purk for all your coaching and guidance.


 
  
 Congratulations! I'm sure the 007 will bring many hours of enjoyment.


----------



## MattTCG

astrostar59 said:


> NICE. Who built your KGSShv if you don't mind me asking? Enjoy your new (high end) entry point into the weird and wonderful world of Stax headphones.


 
 Not sure on the build...Spritzer? 
  


michgelsen said:


> Congratulations! I'm sure the 007 will bring many hours of enjoyment.


 
 Hope so too. If not, I blame Purk for everything.


----------



## astrostar59

matttcg said:


> Not sure on the build...Spritzer?
> 
> Hope so too. If not, I blame Purk for everything.


 
 I have a KGSShv (headinclouds) driving my 007As 2015 issue. It sound bloody marvellous....


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Has spritzer or Kevin shared any comments on the l700 yet?


----------



## kugino

astrostar59 said:


> I have a KGSShv (headinclouds) driving my 007As 2015 issue. It sound bloody marvellous....


I wish my 007A were working properly. my kgst that Geoff built is sitting unused. that needs to be remedied soon...


----------



## Rhamnetin

keithpgdrb said:


> Has spritzer or Kevin shared any comments on the l700 yet?


 
  
 Not on Head-Fi.


----------



## potkettleblack

rhamnetin said:


> Not on Head-Fi.


On superbestfriendsforlifeaudiofriends ?


----------



## joseph69

WOW I just received my 007 MKll from PJ which I ordered 12/05/15…that was fast!!!


----------



## Rhamnetin

potkettleblack said:


> On superbestfriendsforlifeaudiofriends ?


 
  
 Last time I checked they were more active on Head-case.org


----------



## yawg

music alchemist said:


> And that's the question: which is more accurate? We all know planar magnetics have _more_, but more could in fact be less, in terms of accuracy. Electrostats certainly sound more transparent overall, at least to most of us. But higher transparency doesn't necessarily mean the "weight" of the instruments is the most accurate too. I suppose at this point in time, all we have are various opinions. Don't know how to go about measuring such a thing in an objective manner.


 
 This is not about headphones but about speakers. I used to love my Martin Logan full range CLS IIz electrostatic speakers but when I needed volume they were lacking. On certain bass frequencies I would get the "kazoo effect", the whole panel resonating at a certain bass frequency.
  
 So I switched to Magnepans, the 3.6R, planar magnetic loudspeakers. They need a lot of "juice", I power them with 200 W/ch. tube mono amplifiers for the mid panels and the treble ribbons plus 300 W/ch. transistor monos for the bass panels. But now they deliver, plenty of "weight" and volume for my taste. It's like being at a live concert but without the ambient noise.
  
 Perhaps the same is true for headphones? I love my Stax Lambda Nova Signatures but prefer to listen to my speaker setup.


----------



## karlgerman

The Martin Logan Summit X don´t have that problem as they use a active double bass unit dome loudspeakers on each side.
 The Magneplans are also tending to some distortion at high level loudness. Full range planars all has to suffer to this.
  
 Headphones don´t do that, maybe because of the smaller panel size?! imo
  
 Love my 009/BHSE.... and my Summit too. So i´m in to electrostatic  all the way. 
  
 Best to have them both, nice speaker setup and headphones so i change my preference from time to time.


----------



## joseph69

If the springs in the 007 MKll are removed, does this prevent* both* the ear-pads and outer cups where the cable enters from rotating, or just the ear-pads from rotating?
 Thanks.
  
 EDIT:
 Also, does removing the springs change the sound-signature?
 If so, can anyone give a brief description with/without springs on the sour-signature?
 Thanks.


----------



## MattTCG

Got the amp last night. Just waiting for the Monday delivery of the headphone.


----------



## joseph69

matttcg said:


> Got the amp last night. Just waiting for the Monday delivery of the headphone.


 
 Very nice!
 Who was the builder?


----------



## purk

joseph69 said:


> Very nice!
> Who was the builder?


 
 It was Greg and he only built two of them.  This one has exotic resistors on the audio boards as well as a Gold-point attenuator.  Definitely a Head-in-cloud level of built.  500V IXY tuned to work really well for either the SR007 or SR009.  Its the best sounding KGSSHV I've come across beside the KGSSHV Carbon.  I sampled almost 5 KGSSHVs (both 500V & 450V units including Mjolnir Mini) and this is the best sounding one.  I have the Carbon now and I tricked Matt into getting one.  Seriously though, this is a great sounding KGSSHV.


----------



## joseph69

purk said:


> It was Greg and he only built two of them.  This one has exotic resistors on the audio boards as well as a Gold-point attenuator.  Definitely a Head-in-cloud level of built.  500V IXY tuned to work really well for either the SR007 or SR009.  Its the best sounding KGSSHV I've come across beside the KGSSHV Carbon.  I sampled almost 5 KGSSHVs (both 500V & 450V units including Mjolnir Mini) and this is the best sounding one.  I have the Carbon now and I tricked Matt into getting one.  Seriously though, this is a great sounding KGSSHV.


 
 Thanks you for the information. 
 It is a really nice looking build…for sure!


----------



## purk

joseph69 said:


> Thanks you for the information.
> It is a really nice looking build…for sure!


 
 No problem.  It has the best combination of a lot of things.  I still would put Headinclouds chassis work at slightly better though.  Jeff builds are just a tad shy of Headamp IMO.  Gotta love his custom build chassis.


----------



## paradoxper

No DIY builder has Geoff's quality. What's under the hood is important, though.


----------



## joseph69

purk said:


> No problem.  It has the best combination of a lot of things.  I still would put Headinclouds chassis work at slightly better though.  Jeff builds are just a tad shy of Headamp IMO.  Gotta love his custom build chassis.


 
 I misunderstood your post, I though Greg was "Headinclouds" now I understand…Jeff is.
 Good to know their just a tad shy of the BHSE which I'm waiting on.
 Thanks again.


----------



## soren_brix

joseph69 said:


> If the springs in the 007 MKll are removed, does this prevent* both* the ear-pads and outer cups where the cable enters from rotating, or just the ear-pads from rotating?
> Thanks.
> 
> EDIT:
> ...


 
  
 removing the spring will make the pad able to rotate more freely; the pads without spring are loosely mounted on the flat black round plate which in turn is attached to the cup.
 Having mounted the spring will make pad, black plate and cup act more like one unit and it will be more difficult to rotate the pad independently.
  
 Removing the spring does change the signature; You might find some answers here


----------



## joseph69

soren_brix said:


> removing the spring will make the pad able to rotate more freely; the pads without spring are loosely mounted on the flat black round plate which in turn is attached to the cup.
> Having mounted the spring will make pad, black plate and cup act more like one unit and it will be more difficult to rotate the pad independently.
> 
> Removing the spring does change the signature; You might find some answers here


 
 OK, thank you for the reply, I thought the pads-cups would be stationary if the springs were removed.
 Thanks for the information also.


----------



## soren_brix

joseph69 said:


> OK, thank you for the reply, I thought the pads-cups would be stationary if the springs were removed.
> Thanks for the information also.


 

  
 Fig 1 show the spring mounted in the pad underneath the mesh ... the edge being covered by the thin leather flap that needs to "grab"  the "pad attachement plate" ... the latter is the hardest part ... my experience is that one has to be as gentle and patient as posible, sort of "let the leather flap find it's own way".
 Removing the pad is actually just by grabing the pad and pull it off.


----------



## joseph69

soren_brix said:


> Fig 1 show the spring mounted in the pad underneath the mesh ... the edge being covered by the thin leather flap that needs to "grab"  the "pad attachement plate" ... the latter is the hardest part ... my experience is that one has to be as gentle and patient as posible, sort of "let the leather flap find it's own way".
> Removing the pad is actually just by grabing the pad and pull it off.


 
 I had found this diagram afterwards, thanks for the tips, but I'm not going to touch anything because I was under the impression that removing the springs would stop the pads from rotating, which I'm not such a fan of…my 007MKll is brand new, and going to stay that way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thank you.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

rhamnetin said:


> Not on Head-Fi.


On the stax thread on HC? I'm subscribed and have not seen those yet. Hmm


----------



## Jones Bob

purk said:


> It was Greg and he only built two of them.  This one has exotic resistors on the audio boards as well as a Gold-point attenuator.  Definitely a Head-in-cloud level of built.  500V IXY tuned to work really well for either the SR007 or SR009.  Its the best sounding KGSSHV I've come across beside the KGSSHV Carbon.  I sampled almost 5 KGSSHVs (both 500V & 450V units including Mjolnir Mini) and this is the best sounding one.  I have the Carbon now and I tricked Matt into getting one.  Seriously though, this is a great sounding KGSSHV.




Hmmm...... Is there a name for these exotic resistors? Curious minds need to know!


----------



## wink

PRP, Takman REX, Vishay Z-foil, Caddock and Dale will get you started......


----------



## buffalobill

Is the a new SR-L300 coming?
  
  
 http://www.erji.net/simple/index.php?t1859804.html


----------



## Michgelsen

buffalobill said:


> Is the a new SR-L300 coming?
> 
> 
> http://www.erji.net/simple/index.php?t1859804.html


 
  
 What makes you say that? Can you read that? I can't. But let me speculate:
  
 It would make sense for Stax to revamp the Lambda line like that, adding a lower-end L300 if the L500 is indeed meant as the replacement for the 507. Then the L300 could replace the 307 and 407. However, if you look closely to the three headphones in the pictures, you can see that they all use the wide plug with the wide cable. Traditionally, the lower-end 'phones use the thinner cable which fits into the plug directly, without the need for the 'wings' on the plug if you know what I mean. So possibly we're looking at a L500 and two L700s here (or two L500s and a L700).


----------



## buffalobill

Google translate


----------



## Michgelsen

You're right, there is a L300 mentioned there, I didn't read it well. However, Google Translate doesn't give me anymore info than that really...


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

michgelsen said:


> What makes you say that? Can you read that? I can't. But let me speculate:
> 
> It would make sense for Stax to revamp the Lambda line like that, adding a lower-end L300 if the L500 is indeed meant as the replacement for the 507. Then the L300 could replace the 307 and 407. However, if you look closely to the three headphones in the pictures, you can see that they all use the wide plug with the wide cable. Traditionally, the lower-end 'phones use the thinner cable which fits into the plug directly, without the need for the 'wings' on the plug if you know what I mean. So possibly we're looking at a L500 and two L700s here (or two L500s and a L700).


 

 Stax say in their specs, that the L-500 replaces upto the 407 model.


----------



## potkettleblack

Has anybody got themselves the 353x yet?

(I know Stax amps aren't that great, but I read somewhere that this one is very good for the price).


----------



## greggf

STAX amps are fine as long as you listen at normal volume levels.


----------



## ahnafakeef

I'm not sure if it's possible to explain it to someone who's heard neither, so pardon me if it's not, but could someone please explain the difference between a STAX amp and a KGSS variant amp (everything else remaining constant) in terms of sound quality? I've never heard either, but I'm eager to understand as to why STAX amps are considered inferior to the KGSS amps.
  
 Thank you.


----------



## karlgerman

As i experienced, KGSS / BHSE got more punch on bass and sound with more clarity, even on lower loudness level.
 The 007MK II is harder to drive and has some improvement from a 3rd party amp.


----------



## vapman

ahnafakeef said:


> I'm not sure if it's possible to explain it to someone who's heard neither, so pardon me if it's not, but could someone please explain the difference between a STAX amp and a KGSS variant amp (everything else remaining constant) in terms of sound quality? I've never heard either, but I'm eager to understand as to why STAX amps are considered inferior to the KGSS amps.
> 
> Thank you.


 

 I would not say Stax amps sound bad. i would say inferior.
  
 I hope my example is a little helpful. I can make other analogies if not...
  
 My E-MU 0404 USB, same D/A as the Modi 2, has a very nice sounding amp in it. It's not exceptional and it won't blow your mind, but it sounds pretty nice. Better than plugging in the 1/4 jack of your non-electrostats right into your stereo receiver, but not as good as a headphone amp worth a couple hundred bucks.
  
 I think Stax amps are, until you get to a certain price point, kind of like that. They'll give you the detail and the power you want without being noisy or otherwise objectionable in any particular way, but at the same time you realize it isn't the best thing in the world and there's room for improvement. but at the same time,  you're not dis-satisfied with what you're hearing, you just know it probably gets better.
  
 Then you try out a $300-500 headphone amp and you're like, oh, I didn't realize what I was missing out on! But if you still go back to the other headphone amp, it's not like it's unlistenable, it just leaves something to be desired.
  
 Anyway, that's my 2 cents, maybe someone else can explain it better.


----------



## MacedonianHero

vapman said:


> I would not say Stax amps sound bad. i would say inferior.
> 
> I hope my example is a little helpful. I can make other analogies if not...
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree with this, but a spritzer modded 727II is really, really good! Not KGSSHV good, but still impressive.


----------



## vapman

I hope to have the opportunity to hear a modded 727II one day, maybe something else of that caliber, but aside from that I just need the time to finish my KGSSHV


----------



## paradoxper

You mean the feedback mod?..


----------



## MacedonianHero

paradoxper said:


> You mean the feedback mod?..


 
  
 Yes, that's the one. Brought the 727II to a whole new level.


----------



## okw3188

macedonianhero said:


> Yes, that's the one. Brought the 727II to a whole new level.


 
 Yes, indeed. I de-solder the 2 smd resistor and use 2 dale resistor to solder directly to the gold-finger of the board and also did the mod on increasing the input sensitivity. It really sounds like a different amp!


----------



## MacedonianHero

okw3188 said:


> Yes, indeed. I de-solder the 2 smd resistor and use 2 dale resistor to solder directly to the gold-finger of the board and also did the mod on increasing the input sensitivity. It really sounds like a different amp!


 
  
 Agreed! I owned the SRM727II and got to hear the spritzer-modded version...the former was a "nice" amp and the latter was really, really good with my SR-009s.


----------



## harjac

I have stax headphone and my setup comprises a McIntosh 2200 pre-amp and Sonic Frontiers power amp.considering buying the Woo WEE or should I go for the full WOO stax amp ?
  
 Harold


----------



## Rhamnetin

harjac said:


> I have stax headphone and my setup comprises a McIntosh 2200 pre-amp and Sonic Frontiers power amp.considering buying the Woo WEE or should I go for the full WOO stax amp ?
> 
> Harold


 
  
 Full fledged, high end electrostatic amps are generally viewed as better than energizers + power amps.  Woo Audio has two amps, the GES and WES.  Which were you considering?  For the price of each I'd choose something else.


----------



## aalleexxii

Hi, short question. I bought the SRS-3170 last weekend. When I listen to classical I usually play with the knob a lot and vary from 7-9 mostly. My concern is that with some (badly produced) orchestral recordings the headphones start to crackle harshly at loud parts, could this be damaging to the headphones? Can you guys maybe shed some light if the recording quality has anything to do with this?


----------



## harjac

Thanks for replying so quickly !
  
 I was thinking in terms of GES vs WEE
 spending 4.5K was not my  aim.


----------



## Rhamnetin

harjac said:


> Thanks for replying so quickly !
> 
> I was thinking in terms of GES vs WEE
> spending 4.5K was not my  aim.


 
  
 spritzer of Mjolnir audio has his own amp inspired by the GES, listed near the bottom of this page:
  
 http://www.mjolnir-audio.com/products/
  
 But not many people use either, so I doubt you can find a comparison.  The Stax SRM-323S is far more popular than both and a lot cheaper, but I don't know how they compare.  Which Stax headphone do you have?


----------



## Michgelsen

aalleexxii said:


> Hi, short question. I bought the SRS-3170 last weekend. When I listen to classical I usually play with the knob a lot and vary from 7-9 mostly. My concern is that with some (badly produced) orchestral recordings the headphones start to crackle harshly at loud parts, could this be damaging to the headphones? Can you guys maybe shed some light if the recording quality has anything to do with this?


 
  
 Do a search for the 'Stax fart' and see if that could explain it. It would mean that certain of your movements cause it. If not, then I think your headphones or amp are faulty, because this should not happen.


----------



## aalleexxii

michgelsen said:


> Do a search for the 'Stax fart' and see if that could explain it. It would mean that certain of your movements cause it. If not, then I think your headphones or amp are faulty, because this should not happen.


 

 Sorry for posting in Dutch for a bit but it's easier to explain: Dat geluid heb ik wel als ik oren lichtjes naar binnen laat klappen. Maar waar ik het eigenlijk over heb is iets totaal anders, het klinkt als een knarsend, pijnlijk geknetter. Het gebeurt bij hoge volumes en tot nu toe enkel met klassieke opnamens waarvan ik weet dat ze op andere koptelefoons ook serieus kunnen vervormen. Maar ik heb de neiging om dat veel te luid te zetten dan misschien bedoeld is. Meeste opnamens gaan prima op hoogste volume, maar dan zijn die vaak wat zachter (en correcter) opgenomen.

 But I read in the other thread that the membrane is pretty solid. It doesn't seem to have lasting affect or anything. Just worried I might be damaging them in the long term, can't really predict that well when it happens.


----------



## Michgelsen

And are you sure the crackling sounds are not in the recording, simply played differently than on other headphones? They could be played differently than what you're used to, if you were using dynamic headphones before. If that's also not the case, then I don't know what's wrong with your system, unfortunately. I can't imagine that simply playing them too loud would lead to distortions of that order, unless you play them incredibly, deafeningly loud.


----------



## vapman

aalleexxii said:


> But I read in the other thread that the membrane is pretty solid. It doesn't seem to have lasting affect or anything. Just worried I might be damaging them in the long term, can't really predict that well when it happens.


 

 It's very possible it's in the recording. especially older recordings.
 If you hear it even with recordings where you know there should be no crackling, you would have to troubleshoot and find if the amp or the headphones are responsible.
 The crackling sounds will not damage the headphone any more than any other sound it makes


----------



## paradoxper

Hear the crackling. Backtrack in the song to repeat the crackling. If not, it's the Stax Fart.


----------



## Fearless1

karlgerman said:


> As i experienced, KGSS / BHSE got more punch on bass and sound with more clarity, even on lower loudness level.
> The 007MK II is harder to drive and has some improvement from a 3rd party amp.




How much improvement would you say is "some improvement"? 

I'm asking in complete sincerity because my next adventure in this money pit of a hobby was to experiment with the 007.


----------



## astrostar59

Try and stay with the current 007A, the older MK2 is terrible, the original 007 probably the same? - but is now too old really. IMO the current 007A is very good, much more transparent and still good bass response. I got mine from PJ and is the Japanese silver version. It is closer to a slightly darker version of the 009 as opposed to the boomy and lazy direction the Mk2 went in. If you can get hold of a KGSShv or even an LL2 it is a cheaper route to a great system than the 009s. The 007 is not nice without a powerful amp though, which rules out all of the Stax amps.


----------



## karlgerman

fearless1 said:


> How much improvement would you say is "some improvement"?
> 
> I'm asking in complete sincerity because my next adventure in this money pit of a hobby was to experiment with the 007.


 
 I would say, if you like to hear live jazz recordings or classical music in it´s original loudness, that means somehow the loudness the musicians in the assemble are in real, you will recognize a better clarity  and a remarkable increase of dynamic. I hear a better separation of the instruments due to the better dynamic range and more solid performance at peak impulses, also a exceptional stronger, more exact bass. (does not mean louder bass)
  
 I this situation i find my STAX amp kind of collapse which can be heard as little distortion. As you compare the amp´s next to each other you won´t go back to the original STAX amp.
 You will know for sure that the recording has to meet the standard for good performance and a nice DAC will contribute to a optimized result.
 Especially a DAC with a not too warm sounding would be my choice with the 007 Headphone.
  
 karl


----------



## astrostar59

Good advice there. Look for a second hand KGSS or even a KGST. Pity, the last headinclouds KGST was sold this week. But there are other good amps around. I would avoid the LL1 but the LL2 has better following. PM some ones on here for more info on that if you want to buy new. The GES won't drive the b007 very well, so Woo Audio is probably out. And of course the KGSShv in either of it's guises will power the 007 for sure, in fact I voter the KGSShv first in that list.


----------



## Rhamnetin

This talk makes me glad I snagged a KGSS for a great price, since it looks like I'll be getting an SR-007Mk1.  If the ones I'm eyeballing are sold before I can buy them, I might just have to go for the L700.  I have no experience with the SR-007A but I don't want a "thick" sound (bloated mid bass obscuring the mid range).  How do you SR-007A owners think it fares with classical/orchestral?


----------



## astrostar59

rhamnetin said:


> This talk makes me glad I snagged a KGSS for a great price, since it looks like I'll be getting an SR-007Mk1.  If the ones I'm eyeballing are sold before I can buy them, I might just have to go for the L700.  I have no experience with the SR-007A but I don't want a "thick" sound (bloated mid bass obscuring the mid range).  How do you SR-007A owners think it fares with classical/orchestral?


 

 My 007A which I bought 4 months ago from PJ is superb. It is fast, detailed and has a wide soundstage. Basically it sounds very different to the 007 MK2. I have heard the 007 MK1 and I would say they are close. Personally I would go for the new 007A. The 007 Mk1 is ancient now, and no doubt the person selling is asking too much and it is well used. Also the ear pads on the 007A current issue are better, the cable entry is a stronger design (weak point on the 007 MK1). The 007A current issue is slightly behind the 009 in treble energy but is no slouch, it is definitely not slow or dark (thick). You will not be disappointed, trust me.


----------



## aphex27

astrostar59 said:


> My 007A which I bought 4 months ago from PJ is superb. It is fast, detailed and has a wide soundstage. Basically it sounds very different to the 007 MK2. I have heard the 007 MK1 and I would say they are close. Personally I would go for the new 007A. The 007 Mk1 is ancient now, and no doubt the person selling is asking too much and it is well used. Also the ear pads on the 007A current issue are better, the cable entry is a stronger design (weak point on the 007 MK1). The 007A current issue is slightly behind the 009 in treble energy but is no slouch, it is definitely not slow or dark (thick). You will not be disappointed, trust me.


 

 Hi, when did this new SR-007 start coming out and how can someone know that they're buying the new one (and not the Mk2)?
 Thanks


----------



## astrostar59

aphex27 said:


> Hi, when did this new SR-007 start coming out and how can someone know that they're buying the new one (and not the Mk2)?
> Thanks


 

 I don't know when it was released. Birgir has noticed though, he used to slag off the newer 007 and stick to the first 007 from way back. Now he admits they are much better.
  
 But I can say if you buy a new 007A from a dealer or from PJ it will be like the one i have (and love so much). I used to have a Mk2.5 007 (black) which I thought was ok. It was a bit dark and the mid bass had a hump and some bloom. It sounded boxed. That was on a Stax SRM-717 which is probably the better of the recent crop of Stax amps for that phone. Then I bought the 009s and sold my Mk2.5s. Later I then decided to have a second system and bought the 007As from Pj.
  
 Even running from my Stax 717 I knew these were much faster and more alive than the previous version. However, on dance and reggae for example, they ran out of juice pretty quickly and sounded strained/compressed. It was not the 007s, it was the Stax amp. So I bought another KGSShv and WOW, now they were much closer in character to my 009s i.e. more transparent, faster, smooth bass response, wider soundstage, more decay details, better vocals etc than my older Mk2.5s.
  
 As long as you buy a new pair of 007As you will be A OK. Stax never admits to any changes and never says what date that change may be. Even the serial numbers don't seem to say much either. Really IMO the current 007A is a bargain in high end Stat land IMO.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## aphex27

Helps a lot! Thanks for the very informative response!
 I'm trying to decide what to get for less than pristine recordings I might listen to..
 Good records sound spectacular on my 009s, but flaws on average records drive me nuts, that's the price of perfection I guess 
 I was thinking about the L-700 but your advice has me thinking about the 007s now..


----------



## Fearless1

I think mine is a newer model, I got in a trade with a colleague for some home theatre equipment I had lying around. I have had them almost a year and not used them much.

I currently use the SRM-007T II with it, I like what I hear, but I think it can do better based on what I read on this thread and around the net. Hence my question about the difference a higher end amp makes. (Btw thanks for the answers)


----------



## buffalobill

aphex27 said:


> Good records sound spectacular on my 009s, but flaws on average records drive me nuts, that's the price of perfection I guess


 
  
 Interesting point, maybe they are too good sometimes


----------



## wink

They just show up the bad recordings for what they are.   Don't blame your gear.


----------



## astrostar59

aphex27 said:


> Good records sound spectacular on my 009s, but flaws on average records drive me nuts, that's the price of perfection I guess


 
  

 I think the incredible transparency of the 009 and indeed a Stax system has it's benefits but also comes at a price. The treble edge and aggression in some recordings can be a disappointment. And it carries into recent recordings which sadly the mastering is pretty awful on many. The current trend to push the midrange up into the 60% and above DB range is ridiculous. It makes the track play louder, but invariably start clipping and of course crushes the dynamic range reducing the 'live event'  illusion. 
  
 My own path to get a sound that I can enjoy as much as possible on all recording, is to find a smooth sounding DAC and then tweak the surrounding gear to tame the upper treble energy or any digititous without loosing detail or transparency. It is a tricky thing, but can be done and will reward with an amazing sonic experience and stop the buy / selling decease IMO.
  
 The good thing about bad recordings if there is any, is they tend to be in the early digital year i.e. in the 90's and as I said some howler in descent issues. Most of the pre 90's recording are actually pretty good, probably as they were on open real and the engineer actually looked to keep the saturation level in check.


----------



## aphex27

wink said:


> They just show up the bad recordings for what they are.   Don't blame your gear.


 






 When did I blame them? I'm grateful for them.
 I just don't want to restrict my listening to records with excellent production values.
 There is a lot of music out there..


----------



## astrostar59

aphex27 said:


> When did I blame them? I'm grateful for them.
> I just don't want to restrict my listening to records with excellent production values.
> There is a lot of music out there..


 

 The 007s are more forgiving, but then you don't get the level of the 009s on the better recordings.
  
 Maybe don't play the poor recordings as loud. In Audirvana+ there is a high shelf filter than can reduce high frequency response that can help.
 I use it sometimes, and it doesn't loose quality like may EQ functions tend to.
  
 The other thing is, what is your source? And are you playing music non compressed?


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> ... push the midrange up into the 60% and above DB range ...


 
 care to explain what that means?


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> And are you playing music non compressed?


 
 you mean wearing one of these while listing?


----------



## astrostar59

soren_brix said:


> care to explain what that means?


 
 Ok, here goes. The dynamic range of a recorded track lets say (as an example for this exercise) ranges from -55 DB (loudest instrument sound not the noise floor) to 0 DB, 0 DB being the loudest passages before clipping. Digital recording clipping is really badly as opposed to analogue saturation (in a tape). And as a general guide most of the information in the music is in the midrange frequencies. Lets assume these are around -20 DB in a 'normal' recording of classical music or even pop. Thus the limit to a perceived 'loudness' to the listener on a radio or hifi will be on average -20 DB at a given volume level on the amplifier. However, if the studio mix the track to bring the midrange up into the upper dynamic range let say -15 DB then the track now sounds a lot louder for the same volume setting on the amplifier, yet the peaks in the music are the same level as before.
  
 There is a studio mastering forum on the web with many posts by studio technician. They actually list the worst cases as a kind of 'black list'. I guess it is like being a Chef and using ready made ingredients, the studio is basically trying to cheat the system. What we end up with on a good quality sound system is obvious compression and lack of dynamic contrast, the whole thing sounds like a noise basically, a wall of sound if you like. Pop on the radio works well as does music played in a car or on an iPhone with mid range IEMs. But in a 'normal' stereo system it is not good IMO.
  
*My rogue list for mass clipping and compression includes:*
 Metallica- Death Metallic (the fans even demanded a remastering on this album. Strangely the DVD music extraction sounds better).
  
 There are many more. But we are basically fed this auditory outrage and supposed to go along with it. I guess most folk out there don't realise it or care a damb. Lets face it, 95% of the population think MP3s are as good as CDs. Many of my buddies have just got lazy with music, they would rather stream MP3s off the cloud and play through wifi satellite speakers in various places in the house. The 'dedicated' music room is gone it that situation.


----------



## soren_brix

Thanks for the explanation, although not really answering my question:


astrostar59 said:


> ... push the midrange up into the 60% and above DB range ...


 
 What does: "into the 60% and above DB range" means?
  
 However, I am not sure your explanation is right.
 first of all, where do you get the 55dB range from? the dynamic range of an lp might be around 55-60dB. The digital source has a dynamic range which is tied to the bit depth, and can be further enhanced by noise shaping, over sampling: 16bit ~ 96dB.
 The dynamic range of a tape recording is a more complex matter but seems depending on type of tape, size of the tape, speed of tape and how sophisticated the recording equipment being used. As far as I know, 80dB dynamic range is possible without using Dolby, High Com or DBX.

 In terms of the Classical orchestra the dynamic range can be as much as ~70dB. Listning to an uncompressed recording will require your gear to be able to produce ~70dB on top of the noise from the environment - not pratical in most situations, thus the recordings are compressed.
 According to Bob Katz, the use of compression when mastering took off during the eighties aiming at getting the recording to sound 'loud' enough. As far as I understand this is mostly a problem in regards to popular music, and is not so much a problem in regards to jazz and classical music.
 As I understand it, the use of heavy compression and so forth is mainly driven by the use of music in situations where the noise floor is much worse than in a normal home listning situation; in the car, on the go or in the gym.
 If its clipped and distorted doesn't seem to be a problem in most of those situations anyway.
  
 I guess music being produced like that will sound equally bad on what ever Stax you may use including a 2020.
 In fact my own experience is that some old Kempff and Lipatti recordings tends to be a lot less annoying when listen to using good equipment ... I suspect that good equipment just add less to the final sound than not so good equipment.
 Listing to a real Steinway, Bösendorfer or Fazioli from time to time also seems to improve the listning situation quite a bit ;o)
  
 In rgrds to the "so-called" bad 007, I don't really get all the fuzz. There are quite a lot of people being very satiesfied about their so-called 'bad' 007.
 Even some who have tried the Spritzer-mod, and revert to the original ...
 I've only seen a very few people (I guess only one actually) who has been able to A/B testing a 'good' 007 with a 'bad' 007 .... and Zolkis even claims to have a 007 trimmed to sound almost like a 009, a blooming bass might stem from wrong adjustment of pads
  
 The 007 is a heavy phone to drive, get a proper amp and forget about the so-called 'bad' 007.


----------



## aphex27

astrostar59 said:


> The 007s are more forgiving, but then you don't get the level of the 009s on the better recordings.
> 
> Maybe don't play the poor recordings as loud. In Audirvana+ there is a high shelf filter than can reduce high frequency response that can help.
> I use it sometimes, and it doesn't loose quality like may EQ functions tend to.
> ...


 

 I'm not giving up the 009s, I was asking about a complementary headphone for the worse recordings.
 My source is 80% Tidal in HiFi (16/44.1) and 20% 24/96 and 24/192.
 The format is much less of an issue than the actual quality of the recording.
 A well recorded album will sound better in mp3 than a badly recorded album in DSD256.


----------



## aphex27

astrostar59 said:


> Go gotta be kidding? Ok, here goes. The dynamic range of a recorded track lets say (as an example for this exercise) ranges from -55 DB to 0 DB, 0 DB being the loudest passages before clipping. Digital recording clipping is really badly as opposed to analogue saturation (in a tape). And as a general guide most of the information in the music is in the midrange frequencies. Lets assume these are around -20 DB in a 'normal' recording of classical music or even pop. Thus the limit to a perceived 'loudness' to the listener on a radio or hifi will be on average -20 DB at a given volume level on the amplifier. However, if the studio mix the track to bring the midrange up into the upper dynamic range let say -15 DB then the track now sounds a lot louder for the same volume setting on the amplifier, yet the peaks in the music are the same level as before.
> 
> There is a studio mastering forum on the web with many posts by studio technician. They actually list the worst cases as a kind of 'black list'. I guess it is like being a Chef and using ready made ingredients, the studio is basically trying to cheat the system. What we end up with on a good quality sound system is obvious compression and lack of dynamic contrast, the whole thing sounds like a noise basically, a wall of sound if you like. Pop on the radio works well as does music played in a car or on an iPhone with mid range IEMs. But in a 'normal' stereo system it is not good IMO.
> 
> ...


 
 You can stream 16/44.1 on wi-fi. In general I agree with you regarding wi-fi speakers but there is one exception, the Naim mu-so. I got it a few weeks ago and it's nothing short of a revelation.


----------



## astrostar59

soren_brix said:


> As I understand it, the use of heavy compression and so forth is mainly driven by the use of music in situations where the noise floor is much worse than in a normal home listning situation; in the car, on the go or in the gym.
> If its clipped and distorted doesn't seem to be a problem in most of those situations anyway.


 
 You will find heavy compression (of the available dynamic range) exists in many modern pop, rock and heavy metal in particular. It is also fairly obvious in 'club' mixes of dance the trance genders too. The same applies, trying to get the maximum volume out for a given maximum level.
  
 My example was an example, I know Redbook at 16 bit has a theoretic dynamic range of 96db, but most recording don't use it IMO.


soren_brix said:


> The 007 is a heavy phone to drive, get a proper amp and forget about the so-called 'bad' 007.


 
 Not what I found. My previous MK2.5 007s were (I thought) ok sounding until I later sold them and got some more recent issue 007As from PJ. From the exact same Stax amp, they sounded faster, more transparent and less of a mid bass bump. In fact the bass is much more textured. And as they are more transparent they appear easier to drive. My MK2.5 also had an odd boxy coloration as though the frame were interacting with the drivers. They were not faulty, in fact I replaced the cable myself as it broke, so I know they were A OK as regards the drivers and the frame mountings.
  
 So, I go back to my statement, there are poor 007s around, some great early 007s and some great late 007As, I aren't the only one to notice this. If you don't believe me, set a loan pair home of the current 007A and you will see (if you already have the black 007 MK2-MK3).


----------



## astrostar59

aphex27 said:


> I'm not giving up the 009s, I was asking about a complementary headphone for the worse recordings.
> My source is 80% Tidal in HiFi (16/44.1) and 20% 24/96 and 24/192.
> The format is much less of an issue than the actual quality of the recording.
> A well recorded album will sound better in mp3 than a badly recorded album in DSD256.


 

 In that case maybe the 007s are more forgiving as they are slightly less excitable in the upper treble and can 'hide' problems, or at least, not accentuate them. I would still say try some high frequency EQ, it can reduce the nasties on those problem albums.
  
 Funny, some old recording actually suit the faults of that time, as in Led Zeppelin One and the first Fleetwood Mac album. The tape hiss and saturation of those masters helps IMO.


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> You will find heavy compression (of the available dynamic range) exists in many modern pop, rock and heavy metal in particular. It is also fairly obvious in 'club' mixes of dance the trance genders too. The same applies, trying to get the maximum volume out for a given maximum level.
> 
> My example was an example, I know Redbook at 16 bit has a theoretic dynamic range of 96db, but most recording don't use it IMO.


 
 Seems like you are arguing that a synthesizer doesn't sound like an acoustic instrument, and so what? most dance and 'club' mixes is produced to sound excatly like they do.
 BTW Redbook has nothing to do with 16bit giving a dynamic range of ~96dB


astrostar59 said:


> Not what I found. My previous MK2.5 007s were (I thought) ok sounding until I later sold them and got some more recent issue 007As from PJ. From the exact same Stax amp, they sounded faster, more transparent and less of a mid bass bump. In fact the bass is much more textured. And as they are more transparent they appear easier to drive. My MK2.5 also had an odd boxy coloration as though the frame were interacting with the drivers. They were not faulty, in fact I replaced the cable myself as it broke, so I know they were A OK as regards the drivers and the frame mountings.
> 
> So, I go back to my statement, there are poor 007s around, some great early 007s and some great late 007As, I aren't the only one to notice this. If you don't believe me, set a loan pair home of the current 007A and you will see (if you already have the black 007 MK2-MK3).


 
 you changing cable on a non-faulty pair doesn't prove anything other than you changed a cable on a non faulty pair.

 Even though you relentlessly repeat the same story of your so called 'bad' 007 and now being the proud owner of a 'very good' latest 007 doesn't make it true in the sense that the difference between the 'so called 'bad' and 'good' is so significant that people having a 'bad' one should go for the new'er one ... and furthermore use Spritzer as part of the argument since he in your words has "admit" the newest version being the best ever, seems so desperate ...  
  
 ... you are simply blowing things out of proportion and babbling from memory ... as far as I know you haven't had neither a 70xxx nor a SZ-1xxx ...


----------



## astrostar59

soren_brix said:


> Whaty
> ... you are simply blowing things out of proportion and babbling from memory ... as far as I know you haven't had neither a 70xxx nor a SZ-1xxx ...


 
 Dude, you need some happy pills.
  
 I was explaining the process of recording compression in recordings, and my (simple) example clearly has set you off on one heap of anger.
  
 Lets rewind this subject. I am saying there is a lot of recording compression in modern music which is plainly done to make the music sound louder on a radio or iPhone (for example)
 You can't deny this is a fact.
  
 Ok, lets move on.....
  
 Next subject
 I can't remember the serial number of my 2 007s. My recent issue 007A is at my parents house in my second system. I KNOW it sounds a lot better than my older black 007 MK2.5 which I estimate at around 2011 model. I had both those phones with the same source and Stax amp for lots of hours, so it is not my imagination.
  
 I have heard the 007 MK1s alongside my 007As on the same amp and same tracks which I know very well. The newer 007A was very close to the (good) 007 MK1, but was way better than my old 007 MK2.5.
  
 This is my experiences with those headphones. Maybe some other 007s earlier vintage are different, dunno. I am saying how I found those models which I bought and knew very well indeed.
  
 I don't care if you believe me, I also don't care what others have said about there own 007s either. However, I feel I need to put out there my experiences so others can head towards the newer 007A and not obsess that the only good 007 is the first model, because it isn't. As to when Stax modded the 007A I have no idea, hence the dilemma...


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> Dude, you need some happy pills.
> 
> I was explaining the process of recording compression in recordings, and my (simple) example clearly has set you off on one heap of anger.
> 
> ...


 
 I recon that you seems all  jolly from eating those pills you recommend, from your record references I'd understand your need for those.
  
 Does those pills get you so very compulsive in rgrds to relentlessly recommend the new 007 and try to give people the impression that old 007s are not worth what people may ask, and be 'worn' out as you put it?  obviously I don't know why your dog attacked your old 007s - maybe the dog prefer life without being forced  to wear a pair ...


----------



## aphex27

soren_brix said:


> I recon that you seems all  jolly from eating those pills you recommend, from your record references I'd understand your need for those.
> 
> Does those pills get you so very compulsive in rgrds to relentlessly recommend the new 007 and try to give people the impression that old 007s are not worth what people may ask, and be 'worn' out as you put it?  obviously I don't know why your dog attacked your old 007s - maybe the dog prefer life without being forced  to wear a pair ...


----------



## AnakChan

OK @soren_brix & @astrostar59 best both of you take this offline.


----------



## harjac

Hi Sorry for replying later as I was refurbishing the kitchen until now !
  
 Ok so I have a SR-207 with the basic amp SRM-252S and I'm quite sure I can get more out of these earphones with a better amp.
  
 Harold


----------



## aphex27

[Edited by Mod]
  
 So anyway, my chain is MacBook->Macintosh D100->SRM727II->SR-009
  
 The Mcintosh is a preamplifier with a DAC inside. To be honest I have no idea if the amplification part is utilised when I connect it to the SRM727 or if it is bypassed.


----------



## potkettleblack

Christmas tree oh Christmas tree!


----------



## astrostar59

aphex27 said:


> [Edited by Mod]
> 
> So anyway, my chain is MacBook->Macintosh D100->SRM727II->SR-009
> 
> The Mcintosh is a preamplifier with a DAC inside. To be honest I have no idea if the amplification part is utilised when I connect it to the SRM727 or if it is bypassed.


 

 [Edited by Mod]
  
 May I offer an angle? I would say your Stax amp is not doing your 009s justice. I had the SRM-717 which some say (Birgir) is better than the 727 as it has no feedback. But I quicky realised my 717 was not great on the 007s and later on my 009s either. It drove the 009s better as they are more efficient, but the sound was cold, edgy, not realistic, lifeless, poor bass texture, narrow soundstage. It just seems to highlight female vocals, edges of interment notes, basically was fatiguing. In a hifi shop demo it passed ok, but get it home and have a day with it and it does not convey the illusion of real music to me. It was not a disaster, and compared to most planers still ahead, but the 009 is a special animal, feed it with a good source and amp and it will amaze.
  
 The 009 scales so well. I have heard them on the BHSE fed by an Esoteric K-01 and I use mine on my KGSShv off-board 450v amp fed by an Audio Note tubed DAC.
 If you want to stay with the 009s (I would say it is worth it) then try an locate a KGST or KGSShv DIY amp, or next best thing a Liquid Lightning 2 if you want commercially made amps. You may find an LL2 second hand. I would avoid the LL1, it is not as good or as well made.
  
 Maybe try and get to a meet, or find someone on here close to you for a demo who has one of those amps. Really, your 009 will be in another league then. My KGSShv is quite warm for a solid state amp, very transparent but liquid smooth as well, and has killer dynamics and bass texture, quite a difficult thing to achieve. Any of the KG designs are great. It kills the idea Stax can't play real bass, that is NOT true. For example, most tracks I listen to are what you would describe as normal balance top to bottom. But on some tracks such as some club mixes or modern reggae the bass is incredible, really deep and powerful, and the 009 can pull this off while conveying the finest high frequency details at the same time. As good a sound as I have ever heard including top speaker setups at hifi shows to be honest.
  
  
 Good luck.


----------



## aphex27

I didn't apologise
 Anyway doesn't matter, so back on topic..
  
 I think you're maybe being a bit hyperbolic..you really think an amp makes that much of a difference?
 I remember seeing a blind test from some French guys on this thread last year and the 727 did pretty well against much more expensive amps..to be honest, the preference seemed random to me.
 At best I can think that source accounts for 70% and headphones for 30%.
 At worst, source 70%, headphones 29.5%, amp 0.5%, dac 0%, cables 0%.


----------



## joseph69

aphex27 said:


> I didn't apologise
> Anyway doesn't matter, so back on topic..
> 
> I think you're maybe being a bit hyperbolic..you really think an amp makes that much of a difference?
> ...


----------



## aphex27

Which part didn't you quite get Joseph?


----------



## astrostar59

aphex27 said:


> I didn't apologise
> Anyway doesn't matter, so back on topic..
> 
> I think you're maybe being a bit hyperbolic..you really think an amp makes that much of a difference?
> ...


 

 I think you mean the review gang which included Arnauld who now has the BHSE. Yes, a tube power amp with a transformer can be better than a Stax amp but it is not designed for that, and is risky and a waste of money / wrong route unless you already have a tube power amp.
  
 I can say categorically, the Stax amps don't drive the 009s or the 007s well as any of the KG desings I have heard. They are way behind IMO. To get a better idea, I recommend getting hold of someone who has a KGSShv or demo an LL2. The 009 scales so well it is incredible. It is the voltage swing, the current, the components, the design of the amp, everything. The Stax amps are ok for the Lambdas maybe, or the 507 and down. Though, having said that the 507 on a KGSShv comes alive as well.
  
 It is an odd ball, it is not like speaker amps, where as you say the difference is smaller possibly. Anyway, don't take my word for it, or anyone else's, get a demo or get to a meet. It is another world beyond the Stax amp IMO.
  
 What we have really is the 009 is comparable to a 50K+ speaker, and must have a great amp and source. Otherwise it is ruthless, and of course strangled at the same time. And lets face it, kind of annoying as well, as you have found out.....


----------



## joseph69

aphex27 said:


> Which part didn't you quite get Joseph?


 
 I don't get your percentage priority…headphones/speaker are always first priority.
 Amplifiers/DAC's definitely make a difference.


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> I don't get your percentage priority…headphones/speaker are always first priority.
> Amplifiers/DAC's definitely make a difference.


 

 Agree. If we put am amazing speaker on the end of a weak DAC or amplifier it will sound awful. Basically it will revel the systems warts and all, making for a fatiguing and enjoyable experience.
  
 Most of the better manufacturers design levels of components that compliment each other. I know what I will get now, every compliment should be transparent  etc etc. But in the real world and in budget constants it doesn't happen.
  
 I say again, get a demo or to a meet. Your ears do the deciding. Clearly offering advice if it doesn't give the answer he wants, will get attacked / discredited. Lost cause I feel....


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> Agree. If we put am amazing speaker on the end of a weak DAC or amplifier it will sound awful. Basically it will revel the systems warts and all, making for a fatiguing and enjoyable experience.
> 
> Most of the better manufacturers design levels of components that compliment each other. I know what I will get now, every compliment should be transparent  etc etc. But in the real world and in budget constants it doesn't happen.
> 
> I say again, get a demo or to a meet. Your ears do the deciding. Clearly offering advice if it doesn't give the answer he wants, will get attacked / discredited. Lost cause I feel....


 
 Its always been first priority for HP's/speakers then build upstream to compliment accordingly. Lesson 101!


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Modded 727 is better than 717. Deal with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## soren_brix

aphex27 said:


> So anyway, my chain is MacBook->Macintosh D100->SRM727II->SR-009
> 
> The Mcintosh is a preamplifier with a DAC inside. To be honest I have no idea if the amplification part is utilised when I connect it to the SRM727 or if it is bypassed.


 
 Look here for a brief summary of 717/727/KGSS, and from the Dr. Gilmore himself here if you want a bit of fact rather.


----------



## rgs9200m

Yeah, the KGSShv is leagues ahead of the Stax (007t/II in my case) on both the SR007 and SR009. (Personal experience here. Using Birgir's mini version.)


----------



## AnakChan

astrostar59 said:


> I think you mean the review gang which included Arnauld who now has the BHSE. Yes, a tube power amp with a transformer can be better than a Stax amp but it is not designed for that, and is risky and a waste of money / wrong route unless you already have a tube power amp.
> 
> I can say categorically, the Stax amps don't drive the 009s or the 007s well as any of the KG desings I have heard. They are way behind IMO. To get a better idea, I recommend getting hold of someone who has a KGSShv or demo an LL2. The 009 scales so well it is incredible. It is the voltage swing, the current, the components, the design of the amp, everything. The Stax amps are ok for the Lambdas maybe, or the 507 and down. Though, having said that the 507 on a KGSShv comes alive as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 There's been a few tests by eric65 & his friends in the French forum 2 years ago. @arnaud provided a translation of that here, and back then he hadn't had the BHSE yet.
  
 On the other hand, if @aphex27 was referring to a test this year after arnaud had received his BHSE, that test was performed in Tokyo in late June and I was a party to that test (along with @Donnyhifi & @Wallabee. In that test we had a BHSE, KGST, Electra, and SRM-007tA. DACs used were the TotalDAC, Invicta (v1.0), Master 7, and Lavry DA11. The tests were controlled by Arnaud - (i.e. one DAC feeding into all amps, each amp was volume matched to the other, etc.). We had some "old" SR-009s and a newly purchased SR-009, an "old" SR-007a, SR-007Mk1 pre-Z and Z versions.

 Hereafter it would be -my- thoughts about the tests. Arnaud's BHSE felt it was a big improvement over both the Electra & KGST. The BHSE just did everything "better" over the other two - it sounded more "effortless" in creating the bigger sound. To me personally, tonal FR the Electra & BHSE were grouped together (but not the same, the Electra had more midrange bloat but somehow a little dry), whilst the KGST was somewhat more relaxed and somewhat more "Hi-Fi"-ish.

 Both the BHSE and the KGST bested over the Electra in terms of musicality but overall, the BHSE seemed a distant #1 on its own whilst the KGST & Electra were  closer #2 & #3 respectively. However, I think the tables between the KGST & Electra could turn from tube-rolling. I recently changed the Stage 1 & 2 on the Electra and really enjoying it immensely. I hope I can convince my colleagues for another shoot out.

 At the end of the 1/2 day session, I felt the BHSE was justified in it's reputation although the long wait times and its QC in Arnaud's case concerned me. The KGST to be honest was a little bit of a let down. After all the talk about KG designs, I expected more from it. The Electra, I think is somewhat versatile with tube rolling - not being a hybrid there's lots that can be played with it. Whilst I don't think it'll ever best the BHSE, I think it's a firm competitor to the KGST at least - I can't speak for the KGSSHv nor Carbon as I have no experience on them. I do have hopes to build the Carbon though.
  
 And, my final thoughts about the SRM-727A of which both Arnaud & I had owned for many years. Can't speak for Arnaud,  but personally for me, I think it's a decent -to start off- amp. Was it so bad that it made me want to sell my SR-009? Nope. I enjoyed my SR-009 then as I do now. I didn't and wouldn't stomp on the SRM-727A as it served me well for the 20 months I had it.


----------



## Pokemonn

astrostar59 said:


> What we have really is *the 009 is comparable to a 50K+ speaker,*


 
 After I read this, i re-ordered a SR-009 which i once sold......lol
 and I noticed SR-009 need EQing a bit after checking SR009 FR graph today.
 I will post my EQ setting on 009 later.


----------



## astrostar59

anakchan said:


> At the end of the 1/2 day session, I felt the BHSE was justified in it's reputation although the long wait times and its QC in Arnaud's case concerned me. The KGST to be honest was a little bit of a let down. After all the talk about KG designs, I expected more from it. The Electra, I think is somewhat versatile with tube rolling - not being a hybrid there's lots that can be played with it. Whilst I don't think it'll ever best the BHSE, I think it's a firm competitor to the KGST at least - I can't speak for the KGSSHv nor Carbon as I have no experience on them. I do have hopes to build the Carbon though.
> 
> And, my final thoughts about the SRM-727A of which both Arnaud & I had owned for many years. Can't speak for Arnaud,  but personally for me, I think it's a decent -to start off- amp. Was it so bad that it made me want to sell my SR-009? Nope. I enjoyed my SR-009 then as I do now. I didn't and wouldn't stomp on the SRM-727A as it served me well for the 20 months I had it.


 
 Lots of great in depth detail here, thanks. I have the KGSShv and have listened to it alongside David1961s BHSE for a full day session on tracks I know really well. The source was an Esoteric K-01 and the BHSE had Mullards XF4s in the second session, the first session PS Vanes all with the 009s.
  
 They are both really great amps. I agree, the BHSE was number one, but not in all areas. That is often the case with hifi I guess. It's midrange was superb (tubes?) and the soundstage wider than my KGSShv. However the bass on my amp was a bit stinger, and strangely the overall signature of the KGSShv is warmer than the BHSE, maybe as my amp has the Sanyo parts? Maybe on some systems with there 009 it may calm the treble energy a bit. I came away from both sessions very happy that my amp was up there with such a great amp as the BHSE. One of my reasons for going solid state was tube hassles and I can leave it on all day which suits my lifestyle. However, if I was loaded I would have both amps! (who wouldn't). TBH you can't go wrong with either IMO.


----------



## nassq8

rgs9200m said:


> (Personal experience here. Using Birgir's mini version.)



 


I sold it (Black mini-KGSShv)! That was one of many stupid decisions I've made recently


----------



## aphex27

anakchan said:


> There's been a few tests by eric65 & his friends in the French forum 2 years ago. @arnaud provided a translation of that here, and back then he hadn't had the BHSE yet.
> 
> On the other hand, if @aphex27 was referring to a test this year after arnaud had received his BHSE, that test was performed in Tokyo in late June and I was a party to that test (along with @Donnyhifi & @Wallabee. In that test we had a BHSE, KGST, Electra, and SRM-007tA. DACs used were the TotalDAC, Invicta (v1.0), Master 7, and Lavry DA11. The tests were controlled by Arnaud - (i.e. one DAC feeding into all amps, each amp was volume matched to the other, etc.). We had some "old" SR-009s and a newly purchased SR-009, an "old" SR-007a, SR-007Mk1 pre-Z and Z versions.
> 
> ...


 
 Ah, thanks! I was indeed referring to the test 2 years ago. I wasn't aware of the second one. Could you direct me to it? Thanks


----------



## David1961

astrostar59 said:


> They are both really great amps. I agree, the BHSE was number one, but not in all areas. One of my reasons for going solid state was tube hassles and I can leave it on all day which suits my lifestyle. However, if I was loaded I would have both amps! (who wouldn't). TBH you can't go wrong with either IMO.





One of the reasons I plan on getting a KGSSHV Carbon Julian, is because I feel ( like you ) SS amps can be left on without worries, whereas I'd never leave the BHSE on unattended.

Regarding the K-01, as you know I no longer have it, but I'm not missing that source because the DAC I now have is extremely good, and to say it cost me £1850, it's without doubt the best bargain I've come across in audio, and by some margin.


----------



## astrostar59

david1961 said:


> One of the reasons I plan on getting a KGSSHV Carbon Julian, is because I feel ( like you ) SS amps can be left on without worries, whereas I'd never leave the BHSE on unattended.
> 
> Regarding the K-01, as you know I no longer have it, but I'm not missing that source because the DAC I now have is extremely good, and to say it cost me £1850, it's without doubt the best bargain I've come across in audio, and by some margin.


 

 Yes, the Yggy sounds like a winner form what you and many others have said. I wonder what else there is 'out there' beyond this point in a DAC? I have one last tweak to my Audio Note DAC 4.1, then it is maxed out, I can't do more to it. It is already superb. I can imagine that CH Precision C1 was 'better' as is an MSB IV stack and a Nagra, it goes on and on. But my question is, by how much are they better. I have a theory / idea that your brain gets used to the new increase in sound quality, and it becomes the norm, a new reality. And like a nice looking car, looks wear off, and the sound may to become no big deal anymore. And of course, those rogue tracks many of which were mastered in the 90's and sound so horrible will still sound, well horrible... No DAC in the world no matter how good will make those badly recorded albums sound good IMO. In fact, the gap between the best recordings and the worst just gets even wider. But those great recordings, they are something.
  
 I think it comes down to the idea that we are missing something, a tiny bit of detail maybe, or an extra bit of realism to the illusion of a hifi playing real music. I have nearly pulled the trigger on a few occasions on an Audio Note DAC 5 going second hand for £12K, and there is a C1 on Audiogon right now for 20K USD also tempting. But we have to stop somewhere and just enjoy the music, or bankruptcy will result! Now to go back and chill out to some Rammstein.


----------



## clovek

hello, i am trying to rewire my japan version srm 323s and transform it to 240v. my question is how can i open plastic cup/case on transformer where i need to solder new wires. cut wires are too short to solder new wires directly to them without opening plastic case. i follow instructions from post http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/15720#post_7530298
 trying to open it but without success. don't want to apply power unless needed. i expect opened case would look like this http://cdn.head-fi.org/3/3a/350x700px-LL-3a493192_photo1.jpeg
 thanks


----------



## AnakChan

aphex27 said:


> Ah, thanks! I was indeed referring to the test 2 years ago. I wasn't aware of the second one. Could you direct me to it? Thanks


 
  
 I don't think there ever was a dedicated thread to that. You may find snippets of it in the Electra, BHSE, or even this thread unfortunately. We all kinda got lazy and didn't really post our thoughts in full a dedicated thread.


----------



## Pokemonn

wow with my EQed 009, I can hear differences of DACs...In terms of resolution, benchmark DAC2 is one of the best for 009.
 I am tempting to buy a Yggy....oh my wallet..


----------



## wink

david1961 said:


> One of the reasons I plan on getting a KGSSHV Carbon Julian, is because I feel ( like you ) SS amps can be left on without worries, whereas I'd never leave the BHSE on unattended.
> 
> Regarding the K-01, as you know I no longer have it, but I'm not missing that source because the DAC I now have is extremely good, and to say it cost me £1850, it's without doubt the best bargain I've come across in audio, and by some margin.


 

 That would have to be a Yggdrasil.......


----------



## David1961

wink said:


> That would have to be a Yggdrasil.......    :wink_face:




Yes :regular_smile :


----------



## purk

david1961 said:


> Yes :regular_smile :




Definitely! I just finished Enjoying my yggy as well. Plus 5 years warranty is pretty awesome!


----------



## Pokemonn

Hi I post my EQ settings for 009.
 with this EQ setting, 009 sounds darker and smoother/richer and analogue and completely fatigue-free
 at same time remove thinness and brightness and add boldness
 but this setting doesn’t sound electrostatic STAX house sound.so some people may not prefer this setting.
 I personally prefer darker and smoother sound.
  
 iPad
 CDP: Marantz CD6005 optical out
 EQer: Behringer DEQ2496 optical Toslink in/out
 DAC: Marantz SA11S3 built in DAC with optical in
 amp: Stax 727
 phone: Stax SR-009
  
 Graphic EQ(GEQ) bass boost settings
 20hz: +5db
 25hz: +5db
 31.5hz: +5db
 40hz: +5db
 50hz: +5db
 63hz: +5db
 80hz: +5db
 100hz: +3.5hz
 125hz: +2db
 160hz: +1db
 >200hz: +0db

  
  
 Parametric EQ(PEQ) treble cut settings
 center FREQ: 17825hz
 gain: -12db( you may change this number for your preference)
 BW/OCT: 5( you may change this number for your preference)

  
 ofcouse you can change any settings for your preference.
 Thank you!
  
 FYI some links.
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-bob-katz-eqing-headphones-harman-target-response
http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-data-sheet-downloads


----------



## Pokemonn

ah I forgot to mention one point.
 why I cut 009's treble is because I found that stock SR009's treble level are too much over Harman target response curve about +5 to +15db(@19khz).
 i guess this is one of the reason why 009's treble tend to sound hard and too bright and weird?.
 so i did cut 009 treble. please check 009 raw FR graphs. then compare with Harman target response curve. pencil and paper and printer may needed.
 you can find same thing if you check raw FR graph of 009.
 thanks.
 FYI some links you must read.
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-bob-katz-eqing-headphones-harman-target-response
http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-data-sheet-downloads you can download 009 raw FR graph here


----------



## Rotijon

nopants said:


> any of the amplifiers can be built if you know how to solder and you use the proper tools for the important stuff. simplest one I can think of is the octave? maybe the original kgst design as well.
> 
> someone built the t2 as their first amplifier but it's not recommended without assistance. if you don't know how to solder I recommend you get someone to hold your hand because working with hv isn't trivial
> 
> not sure about what other conceptions you might have but don't expect to save money by building these


 

 Just a quick question.

 Im pretty decent with a solder, but im complete rubbish at reading circuits etc etc as i did not do any electrical engineering whatsoever. I pretty much only completed the Torpedo 3 because the instructions by Doug makes it so that a 5 year old could theoretically complete it.

 Would it be possible for me to build say a Carbon with golden reference psu? Given the boards?

 Electrostastic amps seem to be less "Plug and play" compared with stuff like the bottlehead or T3. Alot more troubleshooting seem to be required.


----------



## Pokemonn

I found EQ setting which add to sound Senhhiser house sound! aaaI finally reached headfi Nirvana lol.
 (now I can save my wallet. i don’t need upgrade anymore lol I now can end this hell lol)
 this EQ setting for 009 sound ultra yummy/scary real&musical/euphonic.
 ps you need to set my post #7553 EQ setting too at same time.
  
 parametric EQ(PEQ)
 center Freq: 158hz
 gain: +3dB
 BW/OCT: 5 (its very wide from 20Hz to 2kHz wide)
  
 EQer: DEQ2496 optical in/out
 DAC: Chord Hugo with cross feed on(max)
 amp: Stax 727
 phone: Stax SR-009
 picture:
  
  

 I checked HD600/650/800 FR curve graph. They all have bass peak(about 200Hz +3db very wide).
 and as we know HD650/600/800 rank #1,#2,#3 in headfi over ear headphone ranking.
 so we have to admit that so many people prefer HD600/650/800 type FR curve.
 this EQ setting add HD600/650/800 type bass&mid boldness/richness.
 If you prefer HD600/650/800 then you may also prefer this EQ setting too. but every one have different preference so YMMV.
 I personally think SR-009s FR curve is too flat for human ear/brain preferences IMO.
 I think EQing is needed for SR-009 IMO.
  
 B&K optimum curve for HIFI also have +3db bass boost and treble cut.

  
 http://www.bksv.com/doc/17-197.pdf
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurements-explained-frequency-response-part-two
  

  
 EDIT: please ignore my previous settings. now i use different setting.
 please read below link. there is 009 FR curve which compensated Harman target FR curve. then EQ it to FLAT. thats my current settings.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/first-test-estimated-harman-target-response-curve-various-headphones


----------



## Rhamnetin

rotijon said:


> Just a quick question.
> 
> Im pretty decent with a solder, but im complete rubbish at reading circuits etc etc as i did not do any electrical engineering whatsoever. I pretty much only completed the Torpedo 3 because the instructions by Doug makes it so that a 5 year old could theoretically complete it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Probably not.  We sound like we're on roughly the same level as far as electrical engineering goes (I've done simple stuff, took one college course for it, I know I can make the Bottlehead Crack and Amp Camp Amp for example especially due to the excellent instructions around for both).  I wouldn't attempt a regular KGSSHV let alone a Carbon.


----------



## Lonely_Rider

Hi!
 It is always interesting read opinions here about different amps with SR-009. I think I'm only one here who thinks, that SR-009 sounds better with SRM-727 (unmodded), than with KGST. And I'm owner of both.

  
 Yes, bass have more kick with KGST, but that's all. With SRM-727, SR-009 have better sound stage (more deep), and far less sharp sound in mids and highs, when using Lynx Hilo as source. Even with my Linn Klimax DS, KGST sound is too edging.


----------



## arnaud

There must be variations between builds as the birgir built kgst I heard sounds nothing like what you're describing. We were comparing it to stock srm727, level matched and kgst was significantly smoother sounding with the sr009. 
Main main issue with it was lack of dynamics relative to electra and bhse. 

Yesterday, anakchan brought his electra over to my place and we did another round between his amp with rolled 6sn7 tubes and my bhse (xf4 DD nos el34s). Here again, bhse felt more dynamic, actually sounded almost louder than electra even though levels were matched.

 I liked the electra's midrange, very rich but to a fault as I felt the bhse extending at both ends of the spectrum, having more kick and sparkle and sounding more expansive (deeper , more air between instruments).

Cheers,
Arnaud


----------



## purk

lonely_rider said:


> Hi!
> It is always interesting read opinions here about different amps with SR-009. I think I'm only one here who thinks, that SR-009 sounds better with SRM-727 (unmodded), than with KGST. And I'm owner of both.
> 
> 
> Yes, bass have more kick with KGST, but that's all. With SRM-727, SR-009 have better sound stage (more deep), and far less sharp sound in mids and highs, when using Lynx Hilo as source. Even with my Linn Klimax DS, KGST sound is too edging.


 
  
 Is your 727 modded?  I couldn't stand listening to my SR009 out of the 727, in fact, I prefer listening to the 717 over the 727II that I have by a long short.  The bass is very flabby and lacking in definition and really bleed into other spectrum.  The KGST is really a good amp that falls just short to the very best amp in resolution, details, resolve ability, and soundstage.  It is however is very smooth and very enjoyable to listen to.  It is definitely a clear step up against the 727 when I had them side by side.  
  
 Quote:


arnaud said:


> There must be variations between builds as the birgir built kgst I heard sounds nothing like what you're describing. We were comparing it to stock srm727, level matched and kgst was significantly smoother sounding with the sr009.
> Main main issue with it was lack of dynamics relative to electra and bhse.
> 
> Yesterday, anakchan brought his electra over to my place and we did another round between his amp with rolled 6sn7 tubes and my bhse (xf4 DD nos el34s). Here again, bhse felt more dynamic, actually sounded almost louder than electra even though levels were matched.
> ...


 
 Glad you are enjoying the BHSE finally.  It really is a great amp!


----------



## Lonely_Rider

purk said:


> Is your 727 modded?
> ...


 
  
 No, it is not modded. I'm considering to modify it. To me, KGST sound stage is very wide, and all instruments in it are wide too. There is little depth. With 727, instruments can pinpointed, and there is clear depth in sound stage. Bass is not floppy, but it is not as strong, as bass in KGST,


arnaud said:


> There must be variations between builds as the birgir built kgst I heard sounds nothing like what you're describing. We were comparing it to stock srm727, level matched and kgst was significantly smoother sounding with the sr009.





> ....


 
  
 Mine is from Birgir.
  
 IMHO, SRM-727II with Lynx Hilo is just right. With Linn Klimax DS, 727 is little too dark sounding, too smooth, but listenable, even enjoyable. With NAD M51, 727 is too bright, and some kind "metallic sounding".
  
 If there is variatoins between KGST builds, then maybe there is different sounding 727 too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 If I try to describe KGST sound with SR-009 in one word, "fatiguing" is right word.


----------



## bmichels

I wish you all a very good 2016 year.  
  
 May be this year will bring us a SR011 ?


----------



## Pokemonn

bmichels said:


> I wish you all a very good 2016 year.
> 
> May be this year will bring us a SR011 ?


 

 Happy New Year!!! I will buy SR011 too!


----------



## purk

lonely_rider said:


> No, it is not modded. I'm considering to modify it. To me, KGST sound stage is very wide, and all instruments in it are wide too. There is little depth. With 727, instruments can pinpointed, and there is clear depth in sound stage. Bass is not floppy, but it is not as strong, as bass in KGST,
> 
> Mine is from Birgir.
> 
> ...




Have u done any tube rolling? Also spritzer favorite phones is the sr007, so he may have voiced it for the sr007 or a darker sounding Mark 2. Are u running GE or RCA tubes on kgst? I think rolling tubes will take care of fatigue problems for you.


----------



## Lonely_Rider

purk said:


> Have u done any tube rolling? Also spritzer favorite phones is the sr007, so he may have voiced it for the sr007 or a darker sounding Mark 2. Are u running GE or RCA tubes on kgst? I think rolling tubes will take care of fatigue problems for you.


 
  
 I don't know, what tubes there are in my KGST. I'm living in temporary apartment right now, and KGST is in my own apartment, but I'll check it, when I'm back to my "own home" in February. I even didn't care to take kgst with me here, only SRM-727 and SRM-313. 
  
 I was thinking the same: maybe my KGST is currently better suitable to SR-007, than 009.
  
 I find it interesting, that someone hears KGST more smooth, than SRM-727. To me 727 is too smooth with Linn Klimax DS, and KGST is not smooth enough with Linn. 
  
 What tubes are you recommend with KGST? How much different tubes affect the sound?  I'm totally novice with tubes myself.


----------



## Pokemonn

Im not sure but i will share a japanese rumor.
 some local guy said Stax will release new Stax amp successor of 727/007 this year.
 the guy said he heard this rumor from Stax guy(really??).
 but again I'm not sure at all.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

https://www.facebook.com/STAXJapan/?fref=ts
  
 Look at the last publication by Stax on facebook (Consumer Electronics show 2016), one guy asks if we'll se an SR-009 successor, and Stax answers: "You'll have to come visit us!"
  
 Maybe they'll lunch the SR-009 successor this year


----------



## astrostar59

torofiestasol said:


> https://www.facebook.com/STAXJapan/?fref=ts
> 
> Look at the last publication by Stax on facebook (Consumer Electronics show 2016), one guy asks if we'll se an SR-009 successor, and Stax answers: "You'll have to come visit us!"
> 
> Maybe they'll lunch the SR-009 successor this year


 

 No it can't be, my bank account is a train wreck....


----------



## purk

torofiestasol said:


> https://www.facebook.com/STAXJapan/?fref=ts
> 
> Look at the last publication by Stax on facebook (Consumer Electronics show 2016), one guy asks if we'll se an SR-009 successor, and Stax answers: "You'll have to come visit us!"
> 
> Maybe they'll lunch the SR-009 successor this year


 
  
 Should the launch be in Japan first?
  


astrostar59 said:


> No it can't be, my bank account is a train wreck....


 
 No more gears....no more...repeat after me!


----------



## Lonely_Rider

pokemonn said:


> Im not sure but i will share a japanese rumor.
> some local guy said Stax will release new Stax amp successor of 727/007 this year.
> the guy said he heard this rumor from Stax guy(really??).
> but again I'm not sure at all.


 
  
 It would be great.


----------



## astrostar59

purk said:


> No more gears....no more...repeat after me!


 
 I know, but that sound, it is so addictive!
  
 Seriously Purk, you never get temped to sell some amps, you are amassing some pile there...


----------



## purk

astrostar59 said:


> I know, but that sound, it is so addictive!
> 
> Seriously Purk, you never get temped to sell some amps, you are amassing some pile there...


 
 I sold off all of my KGSSHVs and KGST.  Now I only have the KGSSHV Carbon, BHSE, and DIY T2.  Yup, I have to do a better job get ridding of more dynamic amps.


----------



## wink

lonely_rider said:


> I don't know, what tubes there are in my KGST. I'm living in temporary apartment right now, and KGST is in my own apartment, but I'll check it, when I'm back to my "own home" in February. I even didn't care to take kgst with me here, only SRM-727 and SRM-313.
> 
> I was thinking the same: maybe my KGST is currently better suitable to SR-007, than 009.
> 
> ...


 

 The KGST only uses 6S4A tubes.
  
 I don't know of any brand differences as far as sound reproduction is concerned.


----------



## Rotijon

purk said:


> I sold off all of my KGSSHVs and KGST.  Now I only have the KGSSHV Carbon, BHSE, and DIY T2.  Yup, I have to do a better job get ridding of more dynamic amps.


 
 Well, in any event, if you decide to sell off the carbon, do think of me.


----------



## Kiats

rotijon said:


> Well, in any event, if you decide to sell off the carbon, do think of me. :wink_face:



Sadly, Purk said that iro dynamic amps... If not, BHSE or the T2 would be interesting indeed...


----------



## Rotijon

Hmm,

 Any thoughts on the SRM-600 Limited here?

 There's a unit for sale but i cant seem to find much info or comparisons on em.


----------



## astrostar59

purk said:


> I sold off all of my KGSSHVs and KGST.  Now I only have the KGSSHV Carbon, BHSE, and DIY T2.  Yup, I have to do a better job get ridding of more dynamic amps.


 

 Purk, you sure your Carbon is fully burnt in yet? I am thinking 4 weeks plus for the big caps and transformer. Previous experiences with various amps both tube and SS has been 4-8 weeks before the sound signature settled down i.e. the ultimate level. Before 4 weeks for example it can be a roller coaster with crushed dynamics and weaker bass amongst other strange sonic changes.
  
 I have also found running them 24/7 then a few switch offs, back on the next day helps as well.
  
 I now use a power regenerator for the whole systems mains supply. I can now can get 3 am quality (possibly better) all day as my mains here is a bit rough at peak times.


----------



## Lonely_Rider

wink said:


> The KGST only uses 6S4A tubes.
> 
> I don't know of any brand differences as far as sound reproduction is concerned.


 
  
 So it does not matter, if there is GE or RCA tubes?


----------



## rgs9200m

Birgir convinced me to try the SR007 (current 2.5) saying that it would beat the 009 and he was right. The 007 is just about as insightful as the 009 without the fear factor of the sudden twinge of something going over the top.
 The SR007 is relaxing in the sense that I can just concentrate on every little detail and focus and stare right into the musical components and appreciate the details and stat-quickness and musicality w/o having to worry about pain and suffering.
 If I go back and forth, the 007 always wins over the 009 now.
 I use his Kgss-hv mini w/the Sanyo 400V core. It's very comfortable and light too, and I really like the physical design as it fits nicely  like an good old familiar pair of shoes.
 I think the 15 years of tweaking Stax has done on the SR007 shows. (I actually was one of the 1st purchasers of the original 007 back in 1999, but sold it several years later since it was sort of uncomfortable with too-thin pads.)


----------



## Rhamnetin

rgs9200m said:


> Birgir convinced me to try the SR007 (current 2.5) saying that it would beat the 009 and he was right. The 007 is just about as insightful as the 009 without the fear factor of the sudden twinge of something going over the top.
> The SR007 is relaxing in the sense that I can just concentrate on every little detail and focus and stare right into the musical components and appreciate the details and stat-quickness and musicality w/o having to worry about pain and suffering.
> If I go back and forth, the 007 always wins over the 009 now.
> I use his Kgss-hv mini w/the Sanyo 400V core. It's very comfortable and light too, and I really like the physical design as it fits nicely  like an good old familiar pair of shoes.
> I think the 15 years of tweaking Stax has done on the SR007 shows. (I actually was one of the 1st purchasers of the original 007 back in 1999, but sold it several years later since it was sort of uncomfortable with too-thin pads.)


 
  
 That's the silver Japanese imported SR-007?  This does seem to be the consensus now.  I think I'm pretty much settled on the SR-007A from PJ then.


----------



## rgs9200m

The black USA one is the one I'm talking about. But I think that's just cosmetic.


----------



## AnakChan

> > aphex27 said:
> >
> >
> > > Ah, thanks! I was indeed referring to the test 2 years ago. I wasn't aware of the second one. Could you direct me to it? Thanks
> ...


 
  
@aphex27, you may be interested in arnaud's quick thoughts  of the Electra vs the BHSE as compared on New Year's Eve  few days back. This time I had the following on my Electra, ECC32 for 1st stage (new NOS matched), STC CV1988 for 2nd stage (new NOS matched), and the output stage are XF2s (same as per June's comparison). Personally I found moving from the EH & Tung Sol 6SN7s to the Mullards & STC were more fluid and dynamic whilst the EH & Tung Sols were somewhat more dry. I've now stolen arnaud's unused Ken Rad VT-231s for the 2nd stage to compare against the STC and the trebles are extended with more shimmer and air.
  
 Although with tube rolling I personally feel the gap between the Electra and BHSE have narrowed, as per arnaud, the BHSE still has the extension on both ends of the spectrum, sounds more expansive and has a greater impact on the notes whilst the BHSE with Mullard/STC/XF2s were more "mellow lush".

 However the lesson learnt for me is the Electra is quite scaleable with tube rolling on so many of its stages. So is the BHSE too though with the different EL34 tubes available - but arnaud can comment more about that.


----------



## aphex27

Thanks for the detailed post and advice @AnakChan  Highly appreciated..
 However, since my last post I've received the Abyss and at the threat of being stoned to death in this thread  I have to reluctantly (I love the Stax aesthetic/philosophy) but categorically admit that the Abyss is a far superior headphone in every single respect IMO. So, unfortunately no more Stax (or anything else) for me


----------



## arnaud

aphex27 said:


> Thanks for the detailed post and advice @AnakChan  Highly appreciated..
> Since my last post I've received the Abyss and at the threat of being stoned to death in this thread  I have to reluctantly (I love the Stax aesthetic/philosophy) but categorically admit that the Abyss is a far superior headphone in every single respect IMO. So, unfortunately no more Stax (or anything else) for me


 

 That's certainly a sign you haven't done your homework properly while exploring stats world lol .
  
 Enjoy your Abyss, to each his own jewel .
  
 arnaud


----------



## aphex27

arnaud said:


> That's certainly a sign you haven't done your homework properly while exploring stats world lol .
> 
> Enjoy your Abyss, to each his own jewel .
> 
> arnaud


 

 Oh Arnaud...you've invested too much in this, I would never hope my words would change your mind


----------



## paradoxper

Begone heathen.


----------



## aphex27

paradoxper said:


> Begone heathen.


 

 Sorry Stax-cult-master  I'm gone


----------



## paradoxper

aphex27 said:


> Sorry Stax-cult-master  I'm gone


 
 You Abyss'ers are a punch of pansies.


----------



## aphex27

paradoxper said:


> You Abyss'ers are a punch of pansies.


----------



## arnaud

aphex27 said:


> Oh Arnaud...you've invested too much in this, I would never hope my words would change your mind


 

 Been in this hobby for ~ 15 years, have owned and sample a fair share of headphones and am fairly confident with the choices I've made over the years...
 Also, as added bonus, it's nice to be able to buy a phone and not have to worry about paying half the cost of the can or more for a friggin cable upgrade .


----------



## aphex27

arnaud said:


> Been in this hobby for ~ 15 years, have owned and sample a fair share of headphones and am fairly confident with the choices I've made over the years...
> Also, as added bonus, it's nice to be able to buy a phone and not have to worry about paying half the cost of the can or more for a friggin cable upgrade .


 

 I understand completely, and I've thoroughly enjoyed your posts and admired your depth of knowledge on this hobby of ours over the years..
 I'm just stating my opinion..the Abyss fixes everything that is wrong with the 009..it's faster, cleaner, deeper and most importantly: the music is not next to your eyes, it's in front of you.


----------



## arnaud

aphex27 said:


> I understand completely, and I've thoroughly enjoyed your posts and admired your depth of knowledge on this hobby of ours over the years..
> I'm just stating my opinion..the Abyss fixes everything that is wrong with the 009..it's faster, cleaner, deeper and most importantly: the music is not next to your eyes, it's in front of you.


 

 No worries, I appreciate your point of view and there are certainly many abyss lovers out there, especially those who just found the stat were missing low end / impact.
  
 Having now sampled various amps, I'd say half of it is due to the nature of the phones (can't ask for something that's resolving / distortion free whilst at the same time embellishing any music one listens to) and half the battle is in the upstream gear (both amplification and source). All in all, it's an expansive proposition and there are plenty of cost worthy / more convenient alternatives nowadays.
  
 If you still have your 727 amp and haven't tried it, give the L700 a shot, it truly shines with Stax amps, in particular the tube versions.
  
 cheers,
 arnaud


----------



## Rossliew

Can anyone share if the new stax headphones will pair well with the kgsshv /Kgst ?


----------



## Rhamnetin

rossliew said:


> Can anyone share if the new stax headphones will pair well with the kgsshv /Kgst ?


 
  
 Someone here wrote detailed impressions about the SR-L700 and said the KGST was magic with it.  A perfect pairing and he liked it better than the KGSSHV.  I think this was in the SR-L500 and SR-L700 thread.


----------



## Rossliew

Great, thanks!


----------



## purk

astrostar59 said:


> Purk, you sure your Carbon is fully burnt in yet? I am thinking 4 weeks plus for the big caps and transformer. Previous experiences with various amps both tube and SS has been 4-8 weeks before the sound signature settled down i.e. the ultimate level. Before 4 weeks for example it can be a roller coaster with crushed dynamics and weaker bass amongst other strange sonic changes.
> 
> I have also found running them 24/7 then a few switch offs, back on the next day helps as well.
> 
> I now use a power regenerator for the whole systems mains supply. I can now can get 3 am quality (possibly better) all day as my mains here is a bit rough at peak times.


 
  
 I hope mine is and I do enjoy the sound of it a great deal.  It is a very neutral sounding amp with pretty amazing ability to do soundstage.  However, I do prefer the BHSE tonality & sense of liquid to it.  I'm running my BHSE with NOS EL34 XF4 Holland.  I can see the Carbon indeed surpassing the BHSE with a stock tube for sure.


lonely_rider said:


> So it does not matter, if there is GE or RCA tubes?


 
 I think the RCA is the one with more treble energy compared to the GE.  The GE however is a little more intimate soundwise but it lacks sense of airiness that the RCA brings to the table.  I wish there are more tubes to roll on the KGST as well.
  


rhamnetin said:


> Someone here wrote detailed impressions about the SR-L700 and said the KGST was magic with it.  A perfect pairing and he liked it better than the KGSSHV.  I think this was in the SR-L500 and SR-L700 thread.


 
 I think that was Muveling.  I need to get together with him to check out the SR-L700.


----------



## Jones Bob

purk said:


> Have u done any tube rolling? Also spritzer favorite phones is the sr007, so he may have voiced it for the sr007 or a darker sounding Mark 2. Are u running GE or RCA tubes on kgst? I think rolling tubes will take care of fatigue problems for you.




I believe Spritzer was using 14mA current in his KGSTs and that should complement his SR-007s. I use 9mA with good results with my SR-009s. Seems to tame the highs, as I hear no problems like that. 

I also use Japanese 6S4As. I've found them more balanced top to bottom than the usual GE, Sylvania, RCAs. 

I suspect the Japanese tubes are really repinned 6RA6s as their internals look identical and the heaters take more current in circuit than domestic 6S4As. If so, their Rp would be 40% lower too -which would be a nice bonus.


----------



## joseph69

purk said:


> However, I do prefer the BHSE* tonality & sense of liquid to it.*  I'm running my BHSE with NOS EL34 XF4 Holland.


 
 Are you getting this sense of tonality/liquid due to using the NOS EL34 XF-4?
 I'm interested in purchasing these tubes (Mullard) for when my BHSE arrives, but I don't know the sound differences between the 
 XF-1 through 4 (if any) by any chance would you happen to know?
 Thanks.


----------



## purk

joseph69 said:


> Are you getting this sense of tonality/liquid due to using the NOS EL34 XF-4?
> I'm interested in purchasing these tubes (Mullard) for when my BHSE arrives, but I don't know the sound differences between the
> XF-1 through 4 (if any) by any chance would you happen to know?
> Thanks.


 
 I'm using Holland EL34 XF4 tubes on mine which I slightly prefer over the NOS Mullard XF3/4 combination.


----------



## joseph69

purk said:


> I'm using Holland EL34 XF4 tubes on mine which I slightly prefer over the NOS Mullard XF3/4 combination.


 
 Are the Holland tubes your preference due to the tonality/liquid sound?
Also I take it that the XF3-4 are more expensive than the XF1-2 tubes?
Thanks.


----------



## purk

joseph69 said:


> Are the Holland tubes your preference due to the tonality/liquid sound?
> Also I take it that the XF3-4 are more expensive than the XF1-2 tubes?
> Thanks.


 
 From what I remember, it is a little more open and airy as well as slightly more resolving.  I have done the comparison in a long long time but I just remember that I prefer the combination of the Holland XF4 more albeit the Mullard XF3/4 combination was also excellent.  If you read @ Attorney tube rating for BHSE, he also ranks the Holland XF4 as the best tube for his BHSE.  Obviously, I'm not alone on this.


----------



## joseph69

purk said:


> From what I remember, it is a little more open and airy as well as slightly more resolving.  I have done the comparison in a long long time but I just remember that I prefer the combination of the Holland XF4 more albeit the Mullard XF3/4 combination was also excellent.  If you read @ Attorney tube rating for BHSE, he also ranks the Holland XF4 as the best tube for his BHSE.  Obviously, I'm not alone on this.


 
 Thanks very much for the information…I'm going to give it a read.


----------



## Rossliew

Can anyone share if a Megatron is worth the time and money to build ?


----------



## n3rdling

Impressions from the few who have built one have been very, very positive.


----------



## Rossliew

Someone on here has built one before but I can't recall his name. Was put up for sale as well and I recall it being very hot running which may suite our tropical weather .


----------



## astrostar59

rossliew said:


> Someone on here has built one before but I can't recall his name. Was put up for sale as well and I recall it being very hot running which may suite our tropical weather .


 

 Try asking over at the 'other forum' I am sure someone will reply.
  
 The heat issue may be problematic though? Capacitor life and other component life is directly related to how hot the 'normal' operating temperature inside the amp and at the component positions. Top respect for anyone undertaking the build mind.


----------



## astrostar59

> Between the BHSE and KGSSHV with the SR-009, which pairing is more suitable for metal?


 
  
 Hi Guys
  
 I thought I would repeat this from the Carbon thread, in this thread, as I think it is a good topic.


> Not sure what server what server / CDP you use, but on my Mac in Audirvana+ there are EQ filters which are 32/64 bit and don't appear to affect sound quality in the usual negative way EQ can. So you could technically set the EQ to suit your personal tastes.
> 
> Headphones IMO can and do reproduce excellent bass, and Stats are capable of it as well such as the 007 and 009. But the speed of the drivers in Stats can give the impression of less bass. I was a DJ for some years, and big speaker systems are slow and create overhang, giving the impression of bigger bass depth and impact. There is also 'pressurising the room' When you have a system big enough or a mid sized system in a smaller room you can easily get a real pressure going on. It gives the 'in the chest' type of bass impact and gets you fired up so to speak, well not on Barbara Streisand, but in Rammstein YES. This pressurising a room is what happens in a car with even a basic sound system.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I've assumed something similar there : http://www.head-fi.org/t/786512/sennheiser-orpheus-successor-the-sennheiser-he1060-hev1060-first-look/615#post_12063102
  
 With this perspective, acoustic music is indeed more accurate in the bass on e-stat...but you're still lacking the body feeling.
 Considering artificial music, slow bass with more emphasis are more accurate, since amplifiers (concert, guitar, bass, etc...) have always dynamic speakers and the bass level on this kind of music makes the body feeling very important.
  
 But that's no more than one random dude (me) assumption, YMMV, and so on...
  
 Ali


----------



## Pokemonn

I can feel real air pressure like bass from EQed 009.
 I was really surprised how deep EQed 009 bass sounds. EQed 009 bass are very very good IMO.
 BEST bass I have ever heard from any headphones IMO.


----------



## comzee

pokemonn said:


> I can feel real air pressure like bass from EQed 009.
> I was really surprised how deep EQed 009 bass sounds. EQed 009 bass are very very good IMO.
> BEST bass I have ever heard from any headphones IMO.


 
 You like that DEQ2496 ?
 I have a Carbon + 009, been thinking about trying out EQ.
  
 I also notice you put the DEQ in front of your DAC, is this recommended? Also, I can only assume that the DEQ can both EQ a digital + analog signal? I ask, because if the DEQ is in front of the DAC, it must have digital passthrough..?


----------



## Crashem

rossliew said:


> Can anyone share if a Megatron is worth the time and money to build ?


 
  
 Do you already have a builder or capable of building it yourself?  It is more along the lines of a complicated/dangerous amp to build.  If you don't, I think it might be tough to find someone and, at that point, you will probably have a tuff time of finding someone.  If you can do the megatron, you might as well consider going DIY T2 and spend a little extra time tracking down some of the harder to obtain parts.  If you don't have someone, you might put both the megatron and DIY T2 out of your mind


----------



## paradoxper

Nopants had/has a Megatron. And I do believe has started a T2. He's also a nice dude so perhaps hook up with him and see if he'll do a commissioned build.


----------



## Lonely_Rider

jones bob said:


> I believe Spritzer was using 14mA current in his KGSTs and that should complement his SR-007s. I use 9mA with good results with my SR-009s. Seems to tame the highs, as I hear no problems like that.
> ...


 
  
 I wish I knew this before I bought KGST.


----------



## Jones Bob

lonely_rider said:


> I wish I knew this before I bought KGST.




I do not know for sure what you bought, but it can be easily remedied with a 100 ohm potentiometer on each CCS to dial in the desired current. Best to email Birgir and inquire with him.


----------



## kevin gilmore

all the kgst boards have a pot to adjust the plate current.
  
 to adjust them requires a voltmeter (preferably a pair of voltmeters) and after adjusting the current you have to
 adjust the offset to ground and possibly touch up the balance.
  
 same thing for the kgsshv-carbon


----------



## Rossliew

crashem said:


> Do you already have a builder or capable of building it yourself?  It is more along the lines of a complicated/dangerous amp to build.  If you don't, I think it might be tough to find someone and, at that point, you will probably have a tuff time of finding someone.  If you can do the megatron, you might as well consider going DIY T2 and spend a little extra time tracking down some of the harder to obtain parts.  If you don't have someone, you might put both the megatron and DIY T2 out of your mind




Good point there. To be honest I'm quite put off by the number of tubes required to drive the Megatron considering the tropical climate in Malaysia! And yes I have neither the skills nor the time to attempt a build myself but was actually asking on behalf of a friend of mine. Thanks for the advice anyway


----------



## Rossliew

paradoxper said:


> Nopants had/has a Megatron. And I do believe has started a T2. He's also a nice dude so perhaps hook up with him and see if he'll do a commissioned build.




That would be something worth considering..thanks!


----------



## Pokemonn

comzee said:


> You like that DEQ2496 ?
> I have a Carbon + 009, been thinking about trying out EQ.
> 
> I also notice you put the DEQ in front of your DAC, is this recommended? Also, I can only assume that the DEQ can both EQ a digital + analog signal? I ask, because if the DEQ is in front of the DAC, it must have digital passthrough..?


 

 yes I use DEQ2496 as a digital EQer. DEQ2496 have optical Toslink in and out.
 I can recommend to use DEQ2496 for 009. you can make 009 sound very very yummy!
 DEQ2496 have digital EQ bypass on/off switch, you can hear difference of EQ on and off.
 DEQ2496 can do both analog XLR in/out and digital Toslink in/out. I recommend to use digital in/out. due to less distortion.
 ofcouse You can hear the difference of DAC/amps with EQed  009.


----------



## Jones Bob

kevin gilmore said:


> all the kgst boards have a pot to adjust the plate current.
> 
> to adjust them requires a voltmeter (preferably a pair of voltmeters) and after adjusting the current you have to
> adjust the offset to ground and possibly touch up the balance.
> ...




He might have one of Burgir's with first run non-cascode KGST boards (like mine).Those did not have your latest bias adjust feature. Even so, easy enough to add.


----------



## astrostar59

kevin gilmore said:


> all the kgst boards have a pot to adjust the plate current.
> 
> to adjust them requires a voltmeter (preferably a pair of voltmeters) and after adjusting the current you have to
> adjust the offset to ground and possibly touch up the balance.
> ...


 

 Hi Kevin
 So the latest version of the full size Carbon boards has an adjustment pot for the Ma? I read in various posts the Ma affects the upper frequency response.
 So using a Carbon with the 009s for example, such a feature would be really useful.


----------



## kevin gilmore

latest version of the full size carbon board has adjustable cascade current sources
 98 millimeter board for vertical mounting in a 3U, or the other board for horizontal mounting in a 2U
 buildable as 400 or 450v version with golden reference high voltage power supply, or 500v version with the older power supply with stacked caps
  
 carbon board available with 6ca7/el34 as the outputs replacing the cree sic-fets also with adjustable cascade current sources
 horizontal mounting with the tubes sticking up.
 same power supply options
 for those people that want to roll tubes as well as rolling plate currents.
  
 current kgst boards with adjustable cascade current sources, 6s4a or 6ra6 (different boards)
  
 either carbon board usable as the nanotube driver board, second rev of nanotube output with local current adjust
 feedback either local or global from work by sorenb (thanks) there will be a 6ca7 version of the circlotron output stage
 board.
  
 diy-t2 with current production parts testing now obsolete fets 2sj79/2sk216 replaced with ksa1220/ksc2690 and 2sa1486 replaced with stn9360
  
 kgbh with current production parts testing now obsolete fets 2sj79/2sk216 replaced with ksa1220/ksc2690 and cascade
current sources.
  
 2016 going to be a good year for diy electrostat amplifiers


----------



## rgs9200m

I like to support Birgir (aka, Mjolnir stat amps). He's an irreplaceable asset to the Stax phone community and deserves our business. We'd all be left high and dry for a reliable source of good amps, much less great ones like the ones he builds. (This especially true since even the BHSE is going away.) He's also a great and trustworthy guy personally. So I suggest buying from him just on principle.


----------



## Rhamnetin

rgs9200m said:


> I like to support Birgir (aka, Mjolnir stat amps). He's an irreplaceable asset to the Stax phone community and deserves our business. We'd all be left high and dry for a reliable source of good amps, much less great ones like the ones he builds. (This especially true since even the BHSE is going away.) He's also a great and trustworthy guy personally. So I suggest buying from him just on principle.


 
  
 For sure, he's extremely helpful.  I currently have a Chinese clone KGSS which he upgraded into a respectable KGSS (not while it was under my ownership though).  I'm eager to see how it handles an SR-007.  It won't be perfect obviously, but considering I'm coming from a K7xx and DT 880 I think I'll be pleased.  I fully suspect my end game amp to be whatever his top tier available amp is at the time.


----------



## rgs9200m

Yep. I just have his 1st generation kgssHV mini and it's a #$%&*!! great amp and built like a tank and runs nice and cool to boot. Very very nice w/007 and 009. Leagues above Stax amps, no kidding.
 No straining, boom, sizzle, screaming or artificial notes. Just nice control and refinement. It's so musical I don't even have the upgrade bug for this.


----------



## crazychile

rgs9200m said:


> I like to support Birgir (aka, Mjolnir stat amps). He's an irreplaceable asset to the Stax phone community and deserves our business. We'd all be left high and dry for a reliable source of good amps, much less great ones like the ones he builds. (This especially true since even the BHSE is going away.) He's also a great and trustworthy guy personally. So I suggest buying from him just on principle.


 

 Yep. Birgir is a great guy and knows his stuff. I bought a used Exstata from him last year that he upgraded with a BHSE power supply. For now I just use it with a set of Koss', but I'll get a better amp from him when I finally upgrade to a pair of L700 or SR-007. Shipping from Iceland to the US is also quick and pretty reasonable.


----------



## gilency

Agree. Unless you want to build your own amps, buy from Spritzer  at MjolnirAudio.
 No reason to buy Stax amps or anything else, really.


----------



## paradoxper

I'd disagree. Not because I don't respect Birgir. More choices for the 'consumer' is a good thing. We should all be very appreciative of the mafia and the fact
 that Birgir has on offer a sort of stock of amplifiers.


 


There are however, quite a few great builders, which offer variety, customization and better pricing.


----------



## astrostar59

gilency said:


> Agree. Unless you want to build your own amps, buy from Spritzer  at MjolnirAudio.
> No reason to buy Stax amps or anything else, really.


 

 Not on that subject, but the none Stax amplifiers I have heard do tend to sound better. Having said that, the availability of the Stax amps and reliability and simplicity still appeals to the masses I guess. It is just, if you want more, you have to look elsewhere. The guys who are serious usually end up following that route.


----------



## purk

paradoxper said:


> I'd disagree. Not because I don't respect Birgir. More choices for the 'consumer' is a good thing. We should all be very appreciative of the mafia and the fact
> that Birgir has on offer a sort of stock of amplifiers.
> 
> There are however, quite a few great builders, which offer variety, customization and better pricing.


 
 I also respect Birgir as well and agree that his build quality is first rated.  However, there are several others builders who are just as capable...so don't rule them out.  I sure wish we can replay KG some how.  I really like to buy him couple of really good meals when I finally meet him.  Without him, our beloved stats headphones will never sound this nice...and many will dismiss them as overpriced and not as good sounding as some highend dynamic headphones.


----------



## Rhamnetin

paradoxper said:


> There are however, quite a few great builders, which offer variety, customization and better pricing.


 
  
 Do these other builders even publicly offer their services?  If someone could post some contact information that'd be much appreciated, unless these are the people who you have to know and don't build amps for just anyone (in which case mentioning them wouldn't really be worthwhile in this discussion).


----------



## paradoxper

They are not on Head-Fi.


----------



## crazychile

paradoxper said:


> They are not on Head-Fi.


 

 I was also referred to UK based Head-fier "headinclouds"  when I was looking for my first 'stat amp. Supposedly his work is also first rate, although I don't know what he's building these days, or if he just builds to order, etc.


----------



## paradoxper

crazychile said:


> I was also referred to UK based Head-fier "headinclouds"  when I was looking for my first 'stat amp. Supposedly his work is also first rate, although I don't know what he's building these days, or if he just builds to order, etc.


 
 Yup. Geoff is a great dude. I believe his KGSShv and KGST runs are over but he may be doing a Carbon run.


----------



## soren_brix

rhamnetin said:


> Do these other builders even publicly offer their services?  If someone could post some contact information that'd be much appreciated, unless these are the people who you have to know and don't build amps for just anyone (in which case mentioning them wouldn't really be worthwhile in this discussion).


 
 Look at the other place, and while you're at it do help yourself by reading the "I'm on a roll KGSShv" thread as a minimum before reaching out for a builder. Besides from making you a qualified buyer, it will also give you some insight to and knowledge on various things that you didn't know of, but is important to you none the less ...
 if you don't give a ****, and just want an amp, find 5 grant and be done with it ... basically you only need to choose between SicFet/rk27 or EL34/rk50 then ...


----------



## comzee

I look at Birgir and Kevin like AMD. They headway r&d and sell their own stuff. Third parties can take the designs, and are able to tweak / maybe find cheaper / alternative parts. 
 Other builders would be kin to xfx, msi, evga, taking the main boards and designs from AMD, packing it at a cheaper price, with bonuses like factory oc etc...


----------



## Rhamnetin

soren_brix said:


> Look at the other place, and while you're at it do help yourself by reading the "I'm on a roll KGSShv" thread as a minimum before reaching out for a builder. Besides from making you a qualified buyer, it will also give you some insight to and knowledge on various things that you didn't know of, but is important to you none the less ...
> if you don't give a ****, and just want an amp, find 5 grant and be done with it ... basically you only need to choose between SicFet/rk27 or EL34/rk50 then ...


 
  
 I've actually read those threads and was just making a point.  Those people don't have a website like Mjolnir-audio and they probably don't have many already-built amps (even HeadAmp doesn't).  Trying to purchase an amp from many other builders requires you to be well known on that forum or just PMing them at the right time (if you can guess when that is).  Also paradoxper said "better pricing" than Birgir, but your statement of "5 grand and be done with it" contradicts that (every single amp on Mjolnir-audio.com is under $5k).
  
 So the point I'm trying to make is that options are good, I do agree with paradoxper on that and so should everyone else (even Stax amps have a place) but most DIY builds aren't that easy to acquire.  There's a big difference between a store versus a DIYer you have to stalk on forums and meet certain requirements in order to make a purchase.
  
 Quote:


comzee said:


> I look at Birgir and Kevin like AMD. They headway r&d and sell their own stuff. Third parties can take the designs, and are able to tweak / maybe find cheaper / alternative parts.
> Other builders would be kin to xfx, msi, evga, taking the main boards and designs from AMD, packing it at a cheaper price, with bonuses like factory oc etc...


 
  
 That's true.  They (especially Kevin Gilmore) create the initial design, others take this design and do what they want with it.


----------



## Rossliew

There's Jose C here on the forums who can build one for u


----------



## Pokemonn

Tyll will report about Stax's new can next week.
  
  
 Stax was _inside_ the Edifier booth this year, and their set-up was very nice. I'll have pix and more details of their new cans in my full report next week
 Read more at http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/ces-2016-day-one


----------



## Rotijon

paradoxper said:


> Yup. Geoff is a great dude. I believe his KGSShv and KGST runs are over but he may be doing a Carbon run.


 
 He wont be doing enough carbons other than for his friends and himself.


----------



## paradoxper

rotijon said:


> He wont be doing enough carbons other than for his friends and himself.


 
 Geoff enjoys challenges. I'm sure if there is demand he's up to do a run. Unless I hear otherwise from him.


----------



## rgs9200m

I'm sure 99% of the diy people are fine and reputable; I'm just paranoid about getting into a singlepower situation.


----------



## soren_brix

rhamnetin said:


> I've actually read those threads and was just making a point.  Those people don't have a website like Mjolnir-audio and they probably don't have many already-built amps (even HeadAmp doesn't).  Trying to purchase an amp from many other builders requires you to be well known on that forum or just PMing them at the right time (if you can guess when that is).  Also paradoxper said "better pricing" than Birgir, but your statement of "5 grand and be done with it" contradicts that (every single amp on Mjolnir-audio.com is under $5k).
> 
> So the point I'm trying to make is that options are good, I do agree with paradoxper on that and so should everyone else (even Stax amps have a place) but most DIY builds aren't that easy to acquire.  There's a big difference between a store versus a DIYer you have to stalk on forums and meet certain requirements in order to make a purchase.


 
 so how much do you think an amp is worth then? parts for a carbon is probably 1 grant ... probably 2,5 grant for the BHSE(rk50/NOS)


----------



## paradoxper

That's pretty stupid.


----------



## Rhamnetin

soren_brix said:


> so how much do you think an amp is worth then? parts for a carbon is probably 1 grant ... probably 2,5 grant for the BHSE(rk50/NOS)


 
  
 I have no idea.  Your estimates are also lower than every other I've seen, but I wouldn't know.  I'd never try to make statements about these things as I'm not knowledgeable enough.


----------



## astrostar59

soren_brix said:


> so how much do you think an amp is worth then? parts for a carbon is probably 1 grant ... probably 2,5 grant for the BHSE(rk50/NOS)


 

 It is almost impossible to value, as any DIY builder will charge (probably) different rates. Also the complexity of the case, and there are some variances in the parts and make of the Transformer for example. Best thing is find a builder and get a quote with specifics. No point in trying to guess here I would say. The only listing I know of that has prices up is Birgir's website.
  
 The other option is look for a second hand unit, they do come up now and then.


----------



## bearFNF

Also supply and demand comes into play along with the builders opinion of the value of his time and effort.


----------



## soren_brix

Come on guys, this is not a science project.
 Of course you can go nuts on parts and what not ... but a carbon build from Vishay/Wima/Panasonic/Nichicon/silver plated Belden etc. stuff...a Modushop chassie and some decent XLR/IEC and an Alps rk27 or TKD + a ToroIDY trafo probably stay below 1 grant total build cost ... at least mine did 
 Doing a BH is nothing different, however the tubes makes a huge impact on the final build; I use brown xf2's but I've seen several reporting good results (comparing it to the carbon) using a lot less expensive tubes.
  
 Buying from Spritzer is a safe bet. No hassle, no fancy chassie, excellent build quality, stuff is working as its supposed to and if you, for some reason run into trouble my experience is that he does everything he can to help you out. From various posting it looks like Justin is just about the same.
  
 If you for some reason really cannot find someone to build your amp, and want cheaper then look at the classifieds, or grab an iron and DIY ...


----------



## paradoxper

This discussion devolved into convolution.
  
 Birgir is a purveyor of these great designs, as such, we can all submit that the Carbon is worth up to $4600. Further, the point was
 other builders can target in at an even lower price point and that would include more exotic parts and involved casing.
  
 Again, this isn't to rail against Birgir, simple fact that he's in Iceland and has higher costs. It's all reasonable.
  
 So let's drop the DIY BS and use our critical thinking skills. 
  
 Remember when Justin said he'd build T2's for $20k+ or that his HV would cost the difference of EL34's tubes.


----------



## HemiSam

Seems like a lot of poop being tossed out as fact all the sudden, but perhaps I'm mistaken.  I'd be interesting to see your $1K carbon and hear more about it, soren-brix.  Care to post some pics for us?
  
 HS


----------



## soren_brix

paradoxper said:


> This discussion devolved into convolution.
> 
> Birgir is a purveyor of these great designs, as such, we can all submit that the Carbon is worth up to $4600. Further, the point was
> other builders can target in at an even lower price point and that would include more exotic parts and involved casing.
> ...


 
 ... indeed a show case of "critical thinking" ... honestly I can't really get my dense head around this targeting a lower price point while including more exotic parts and involved casing ....do you mean assembling being on the southern hemisphere while actually sitting in the chassie?


----------



## soren_brix

you'll find pics at the other place


----------



## paradoxper

Just walk away.


----------



## kevin gilmore

here is a way to get the parts cost up.
  
 latest kgsshv-carbon-tube board
 cut the filament lines between the 2 tubes
 add transformer with separate filaments for the 4 tubes
  
 insert a pair of emission labs 20B-V4 per channel
 pin compatible in this circuit with el34
 (don't you dare try this in anything else)
  
 add over $2k parts cost for the 4 tubes
  
 no tube rolling!


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Pictures of new Stax amp at CES 2016, looks very interesting!
  
 http://ces.zol.com.cn/5622104.html


----------



## kevin gilmore

must buy new srm002
 now.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Translated from the bottom of the web, the last text:
  
  

```
[color=rgb(33, 33, 33)] "Also on the traditional products still bring its flagship SR-009, and with the SR-009 represents Cruiser flagship amp has entered the development stage at the end , in 2016 it is expected to meet with consumers ."[/color]
```
  
 So, T2 successor this year too 
  
 Now they only need european dealers with similar prices to japan and warranty


----------



## HemiSam

soren_brix said:


> you'll find pics at the other place


 
  
 Good stuff.  Help me out.  I've been through the KGSSHV Carbon thread and didn't see any.  Somewhere else?
  
 HS


----------



## comzee

kevin gilmore said:


> must buy new srm002
> now.


 
 I absolutely adore my srs-002 system. Now they're putting a dac with it, with an undoubtedly upgraded amp, heaven.
 I notice they're using the portable 5pin, which means it must only work with the sr-002?
  
 Is it possible to convert an sr-003 pro 5pin end, to the portable type?
 I'm also thinking the sr-003 might specifically be designed for more power, so it might need a full size amp... not sure.


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

Del


----------



## comzee

labrat said:


> The SR-003 is a SR-002 with a full-size Stax 5-pin connector.
> If you can make the connector yourself, there is no problem doing the conversion you want.
> It has been done before, someone here had pictures of his home-made connector.
> You should also be able to buy the complete cable as a spare from Stax, if they want to sell it to you.


 
 I wasn't aware the sr-003 was identical to the sr-002 aside from the connector, good info.


----------



## icebear

torofiestasol said:


> Pictures of new Stax amp at CES 2016, looks very interesting!
> 
> http://ces.zol.com.cn/5622104.html


 

 What's that DAC/amp ??? No model code ...


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

Del


----------



## Tinkerer

I think he means the homemade-looking one with the internal DAC and VU meter, not the 727A, 007tII, or portable 003 that are also there.


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

Del


----------



## 3X0

torofiestasol said:


> Translated from the bottom of the web, the last text:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds more like an SRM-737 or SRM-008tS than anything else TBH.


----------



## lojay

That translation is ok but allow me to do a better translation, which might be more interesting: 

"Also, for traditional products, [Stax] still brought with them their flagship SR-009, besides that, Edifier represented that a flagship amplifier specifically designed to drive the SR-009 has entered into the final stage of development, and is hopeful that it would be released to consumers and the public in 2016."

"另外传统产品上，依然带来了旗舰SR-009，并且漫步者表示搭配SR-009的旗舰级耳放已经进入开发末尾阶段，在2016年就有望与广大消费者见面。"


----------



## icebear

tinkerer said:


> I think he means the homemade-looking one with the internal DAC and VU meter, not the 727A, 007tII, or portable 003 that are also there.


 

 Indeed, yes this is the one I was referring to :


----------



## Lan647

Interesting to hear STAX is producing an amplifier specifically for the SR-009. Hopefully, it will be tuned so that it will attenuate the (IMO, quite significant) flaws of the 009 and bring it closer to the 007 mk1, which I definitely feel is a superior headphone. Something along the lines of what Sennheiser did with the HDVD800 + HD 800.


----------



## Michgelsen

Damn that new amp looks sexy!!


----------



## aphex27

lan647 said:


> Interesting to hear STAX is producing an amplifier specifically for the SR-009. Hopefully, it will be tuned so that it will attenuate the (IMO, quite significant) flaws of the 009 and bring it closer to the 007 mk1, which I definitely feel is a superior headphone. Something along the lines of what Sennheiser did with the HDVD800 + HD 800.


 

 lol


----------



## Pokemonn

EQing 009 can easily mimic 007 sound. please try EQ. its not difficult.


----------



## Lan647

pokemonn said:


> EQing 009 can easily mimic 007 sound. please try EQ. its not difficult.


 

 While in theory I can imagine that would work pretty well, why would you bother? There is nothing the 009 does better IMO and the 007 can be had for half the price. 
  
 And before anyone jumps in and talks about "detail" and "air" and "soundstage width"... it's just more treble, guys. It's just more treble.


----------



## arnaud

Actually, the omega 2 (mine's an early mk1 but my previous 007A was even more pronounced) has a spike in treble at 10kHz or so and, as such, I actually find it more trebly than the 009 because this sticks out (especially when I put the omega 2 on right after the 009).


----------



## Lan647

arnaud said:


> Actually, the omega 2 (mine's an early mk1 but my previous 007A was even more pronounced) has a spike in treble at 10kHz or so and, as such, I actually find it more trebly than the 009 because this sticks out (especially when I put the omega 2 on right after the 009).


 

 It varies with model. The 70xxx ones I've heard don't have it. Mine (71xxx) has a little bit of it, but I happen to like it actually. Never gets bright to my ears but does add a little bit och sparkle and "fun" compared to the earlier 70xxx model. 

 I find the SR-009 much more bothersome, having what I hear as a raised upper midrange/low treble. It makes the sound more immediately "detailed" but really it just sounds unnatural to me.


----------



## potkettleblack

lan647 said:


> it's just more treble, guys. It's just more treble.


 
 You spelt better wrong.


----------



## rgs9200m

The 007 is fine and insightful and fast, but if the recording, especially vocals, has some dryness or gravelyness to it, I find the 009 has more liquidity and makes these vocals or other sustained notes sound more liquid and continuous and is just what the doctor ordered.
 Maybe a tube sound with the BHSE can do this with the 007, but I have not heard that amp. BUT, you have to be careful that the recording does not have too much digital glare, because then the 009 gets notoriously peaky and can be shrill and fatiguing.
 I find good recordings, especially SACDs, are great with the 009, as these recordings are generally excellent and analog-like with the upper mids/treble and free from the dreaded digital glare that I can't stand.
 So I think both phones have their merits and flaws. (But I'm still addicted to the lifelike Stax sound for the record. I just think you need both the 007 and 009. But if you can only have one, the 007 is the one to have and is most versatile.)


----------



## Pokemonn

FYI digital EQer DEQ2496 is $299 at Amazon. much cheaper than 007.
 to 009 owner, if you have SQ issue, try software/hardware EQer. Plus you can tweak bad recordings too.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-DEQ2496-BEHRINGER-ULTRACURVE-PRO/dp/B000CCN152


----------



## Ali-Pacha

lan647 said:


> While in theory I can imagine that would work pretty well, why would you bother? There is nothing the 009 does better IMO and the 007 can be had for half the price.
> 
> And before anyone jumps in and talks about "detail" and "air" and "soundstage width"... it's just more treble, guys. It's just more treble.


 
 The best amp I've used so far with 007mk1 and 009 (I own both) is a modded SRM-727II...obviously no T2/BHSE level, but that should'nt be that far from a KGSS. The source is an Yggy.
  
 For me, 007 clearly lacks impact and upper mids compared to 009. Considering bass, 009 has a bit less amount of it, but the impact / tightness is better.
 Considering treble, the 9-10 khz spike on 007 and the lack of upper-mids give me the feeling of a less well-integrated FR, and sounds like a kind of "trick" to enhance details in spite of the somehow distant sound of 007.
 Soundstage is better on 007, a bit wider and deeper, but it's partly a consequence of this distant sound IMO.
  
 Until now, even if I do like my 007 for relaxing yet refined listening sessions, I feel the 009 as technically superior, but mostly it does better suit my tastes sonically.
 Even if I don't praise mafia's sonical tastes that much, I acknowledge they are the most technically skilled guys out there concerning e-stat amping. So I'm in line for a BHSE (should be this year 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) which is well-accepted as the real kick-in-the-arse amp for 007.
 Time will tell 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## karlgerman

If one use a mac, there is a nice EQ implemented. Easy to get there using PureMusic for example.
  
 As we know, DAC´s and Amps manipulate the sound and if all parts fit to your personal taste a 009 is still best for me.
 Same for my loudspeaker system, which is electrostatic also.
  
 Leaving my Esoteric-DAC switched on for more than 5 hours optimized the treble performance so there is a warm easy listening sound and no reason for EQ-ing any more.
 That remind me how a precise clock could be so important to treble and midrange, maybe as influential as DS or R2r processors.


----------



## Lan647

ali-pacha said:


> The best amp I've used so far with 007mk1 and 009 (I own both) is a modded SRM-727II...obviously no T2/BHSE level, but that should'nt be that far from a KGSS. The source is an Yggy.
> 
> For me, 007 clearly lacks impact and upper mids compared to 009. Considering bass, 009 has a bit less amount of it, but the impact / tightness is better.
> Considering treble, the 9-10 khz spike on 007 and the lack of upper-mids give me the feeling of a less well-integrated FR, and sounds like a kind of "trick" to enhance details in spite of the somehow distant sound of 007.
> ...


 

 I'm personally using a modded 717, I would guess it's somewhere around the level of your modded 727. Caps replacements did a great job tightening up the low-end of the 007. In its original state, the bass was a tad loose compared to the 009. Now, the bass of the 007 is just as fast and tight as the 009 but richer and a little weightier. With the BHSE, I'm sure it will be even better. 

 With the treble I guess it's just preferences. I've never found the vocals of the 009 to be realistic even on very high quality recordings, because of that (to my ears) upper mid emphasis and overall lack of warmth and richness in tone. I don't know whether or not the 007 is ideal, but it certainly gives the most transparent and authentic vocal reproduction I've heard from any headphone. 
  
 But again, preferences I guess.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Yep, matter of tastes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The mod is about feedback, which is lacking on 727's last stage.
 717 has global feedback, 727 with mod has local feedback(s), but it's commonly accepted that both are very very close :
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/17445#post_8174660
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/13935#post_6885201
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/616260/stax-srm-323s-or-srm-717-for-driving-the-sr-007#post_8523207
  
 If you like the way 007k1 presents vocals, you should try some Sigma Pro's...mids absolutely to die for, and impact 007mk1 can't compete with on our "lesser" amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## Lan647

ali-pacha said:


> Yep, matter of tastes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah. The 717 needs no such mod. But all the STAX amps benefit from high-end caps in the different amplification stages. It does give an improvement across the board, with the 007 most notably in the low-end. 

 I've tried most STAX headphones there are... a friend of mine is a collector. The 007 mk1 is king 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The very old SR-5 also has a gorgeous midrange. Bass and treble aren't the best, but the mids are sweet as candie.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

lan647 said:


> I've tried most STAX headphones there are... a friend of mine is a collector. The 007 mk1 is king
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I do know this kind of collecting disease, indeed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For me, 009 is king, head and shoulders above anything else. Nothing to do with price tag, BTW, Lambda Sig and Lambda NB are my other preferred ones.
  
 007mk1 might be the first one to leave my collection, not that far behind Lambda Nova Signature, which is the most technically achieved of the Lambda I've had / tried. But LNS has the same kind of problem as 007 : as refined as it may be, it sounds a bit flat and lacks excitement / engagement when listening to anything else than chamber music / audiophile female vocals. OTH, recent Lambdas (SR-X0X or SR-X07) sound too harsh and in you face for my tastes, reducing extension and soundstage. Lambda Signature is my preferred one among Lambdas (and second to 009 IMO) : bright, yes, but never fatiguing, not as detailed as LNS, sure, but not that far, wider soundstage (pads...), better bass, and real dynamics.
 009 really sounds like the best synthesis of all.
  
 Definitive statements (and classified !) will wait for my BHSE, but I've the feeling 007mk1 is somehow over-hyped. The quest for an amp to get some dynamics from it gave us some really gorgeous pieces of gear, but I definitely agree with Tyll or D. Malher on relative ranking. 
  
 And yes, SR-5 is one of the most euphonic Stax out there (not that far behind Sigma Pros), the first one I've had...it also has some dynamics which make 007 sounding a bit flat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 YMMV, 2 cents.

 Ali


----------



## Sorrodje

ali-pacha said:


> but I've the feeling 007mk1 is somehow over-hyped.


 
  
  
 Blasphemy !


----------



## rgs9200m

The SR007 mark 2 (current model) is more lively and engaging and resolute than the mark 1 I had (but that mk 1 was a few yrs ago with a diff. amp, so take that comparison with a grain of salt).
 But in any case, the SR007 knocks on the 009's door in terms of a compelling, live character. 009 fans really owe it to themselves to hear the newest SR007. I have both.


----------



## astrostar59

lan647 said:


> I'm personally using a modded 717, I would guess it's somewhere around the level of your modded 727. Caps replacements did a great job tightening up the low-end of the 007. In its original state, the bass was a tad loose compared to the 009. Now, the bass of the 007 is just as fast and tight as the 009 but richer and a little weightier. With the BHSE, I'm sure it will be even better.
> 
> With the treble I guess it's just preferences. I've never found the vocals of the 009 to be realistic even on very high quality recordings, because of that (to my ears) upper mid emphasis and overall lack of warmth and richness in tone. I don't know whether or not the 007 is ideal, but it certainly gives the most transparent and authentic vocal reproduction I've heard from any headphone.
> 
> But again, preferences I guess.


 

 I would try and get a demo with a better amp. I had the 717 and it was ok with both the 007 and 009, but ultimately the 009 had outgrown it and as you say the treble was a bit cold / too much. It is a different animal with a better amp, and would recommend you try that. To me it is like putting a 50K speaker on the end of a mid range amplifier, it often doesn't work out. The 007 is more forgiving but also more 'veiled'.
  
 As regards bass, the 009 to me goes both lower and offers more texture and musical cues. The 009 scales so well, it has almost no limits I can hear, out of a BHSE or my KGSShv. It also has more soundstage width and depth. I can't fault it. Having tubes in a DAC or the amp can help leave the 'digital' signature behind somewhat. My 007 is a 2015 007A which appears to be an improvement on my earlier issue MK2.5 black model.
  
 BTW my 007 is a 2015 007A which appears to be an improvement on my earlier issue MK2.5 black model. I have both 009s and 007s to hand and use the 009 in my main system so 90% of the Of course all in my own experience, others may differ as is this hobby.


----------



## Lan647

astrostar59 said:


> I would try and get a demo with a better amp. I had the 717 and it was ok with both the 007 and 009, but ultimately the 009 had outgrown it and as you say the treble was a bit cold / too much. It is a different animal with a better amp, and would recommend you try that. To me it is like putting a 50K speaker on the end of a mid range amplifier, it often doesn't work out. The 007 is more forgiving but also more 'veiled'. As regards bass, the 009 to me goes both lower and offer more texture and musical cues. The 009 scales so well, it has almost no limits I can hear, out of a BHSE or my KGSShv. I can't fault it. Having tubes in a DAC or the amp can help leave the 'digital' signature behind somewhat. Of course all in my own experience, others may differ as is this hobby.


 

 My 717 is superior to a factory 717 though, so have that in mind. Also, it doesn't matter if you pay 100k for an amp. Unless it has a specific tuning, it won't make those treble dBs in the 009 go away. It's mostly just a matter of FR, and I don't like the FR of the 009. 
  
 Also have in mind that well respected enthusiasts such as Bob Katz, Tyll Hertsens and Birgir all prefer the 007 to the 009, and that's with amps like the KGSSHV and BHSE.

 Not surprised your new 007 is an improvement, the mk2,5 SZ3 is by far the least impressive of the O2s.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

sorrodje said:


> Blasphemy !


 
 I doubt it, but whenever the BHSE changes my mind about this ranking, I'll admit it.
  
 Yes, some are mafia's followers by essence
 Yes, some are trashing on mafia by principle
 Yes, some are biased by price, so their ranking
 Yes, some are biased by demonstrative sound
 Yes, some are OTH biased in reaction by unimpressive sound (more "real" because unimpressive)
 Yes, some are biased by the image they have of such reviewer / hobbyist / company
 Yes, I'm biased and influenced like everyone in this hobby.
  
 But until now and in the end, I do prefer 009, and I think there's no objectivity nor truth in this hobby.
  
 Now free hugs for everyone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## VandyMan

lan647 said:


> Also have in mind that well respected enthusiasts such as Bob Katz, Tyll Hertsens and Birgir all prefer the 007 to the 009, and that's with amps like the KGSSHV and BHSE.


 

 That is not totally correct. They used a special version of the KGSS in the latest listening test. In previous reviews, Tyll had used the BHSE and called the combo the best he had ever heard. He can change his mind, but it bothered me that when he met with Bob Katz he did not use the same amp as his original review.

 The only comparison that *really* matters to me is my own. I compared the 007 and 009 side by side out of the BHSE at a Head-Fi meetup. I bought the 009.  The 007 sounded veiled in comparison. The great thing is that most of us can do this test because HeadAmp brings this setup to lots of shows. I don't find my late-2014 009 too bright except when listening to  overly bright source material. Certainly not as bright at the HD-800 or older AKGs.

 As far as the earlier post that expressed the hope that a very expensive amp would make the 009 sound like the 007... Wouldn't that be a total waste of money? If you prefer the 007, great, you just save $2000 or more. Why would you buy the more expensive headphone, add on an expensive amp, all to make it sound like a cheap model? The logic eludes me.


----------



## bearFNF

That's what it really comes down to. What you personally like. All the "expert" opinions and measurements are good for reference only, IMO. 

I listened to the 007 MK1, MKII, and 009, in addition to the rest of the line on as many setups as I could. I liked the 009's the best. End of story. YMMY, IMNSHO, etc etc...


----------



## mulveling

vandyman said:


> That is not totally correct. They used a special version of the KGSS in the latest listening test. In previous reviews, Tyll had used the BHSE and called the combo the best he had ever heard. He can change his mind, but it bothered me that when he met with Bob Katz he did not use the same amp as his original review.
> 
> The only comparison that *really* matters to me is my own. I compared the 007 and 009 side by side out of the BHSE at a Head-Fi meetup. I bought the 009.  The 007 sounded veiled in comparison. The great thing is that most of us can do this test because HeadAmp brings this setup to lots of shows. I don't find my late-2014 009 too bright except when listening to  overly bright source material. Certainly not as bright at the HD-800 or older AKGs.
> 
> As far as the earlier post that expressed the hope that a very expensive amp would make the 009 sound like the 007... Wouldn't that be a total waste of money? If you prefer the 007, great, you just save $2000 or more. Why would you buy the more expensive headphone, add on an expensive amp, all to make it sound like a cheap model? The logic eludes me.


 
 Yep, and that "special" KGSS looks like just a regular KGSS with a ton of jacks and lots of words in its name. A KGSS won't hold a candle to a KGSShv or especially a BHSE. Pretty crappy to handicap the Staxes so much when there were gobs of high-end dynamic amps on tap. Especially since amp selection is more crucial  with electrostats vs. dynamics. And there's definitely no point to trying to make a 009 sound like a 007 Mk I...I'd get rid of any such amp immediately!
  
 I think Tyll would be shocked..._shocked_ if he heard that KGSS next to a BHSE again -- with both 007 and 009 (also get some decent tubes in that BHSE, not Russians...why skimp at this level?).


----------



## Lan647

It's kind of funny to see people trying sooo hard to defend the 009. Some people just can't accept that there are actually preferences, and that's it. The 007 and the 009 are two different beasts of the same caliber, take your pick and be happy. 
  
 About Tyll's KGSS, I'll quote his quote from the builder. 

_"...a slightly leaner sounding amp that either the KGSSHV or the BHSE so the bass is not as prominent and perhaps a bit more "honest", whatever that might mean... This one was a bit more advanced as it uses the same output transistors as the KGSSHV and runs on +/-415V rails instead of the stock KGSS +/-350V. The power supply is a simplified version of the KGSSHV unit but superior to the ones found in any normal KGSS.

 ...This one is truly unique though, nothing like it in the world. It uses the same amplifier PCB as Justin (Wilson of HeadAmp) used in his KGSS amps but this one has better output and gain transistors, larger heatsinks to accommodate the extra standing power and every component is hand selected/matched. The power supply is a play off the T2DIY and the KGSSHV design which followed it. It has only been used in this amp and contains five supplies, all of them regulated. +/-15V, +/-415V and the bias supply of +580V." _
  
 It seems to me like it would be closer to a KGSSHV than to a KGSS. But I may be wrong.


----------



## VandyMan

> Originally Posted by *Lan647* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> It's kind of funny to see people trying sooo hard to defend the 009.


 
  
 I see you trying to make the case that the 009 is bad by quoting various semi-famous people and the rest of us stating our personal preference which happens to disagree with you.
  


> Originally Posted by *Lan647* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Some people just can't accept that there are actually preferences, and that's it. The 007 and the 009 are two different beasts of the same caliber, take your pick and be happy. .


 
  
 Really? Because it seems to me that we are all in agreement that one should hear both and then get the one you prefer.


----------



## TheAttorney

You beat me to it VandyMan. Lan's first two sentences were so unnecessary. And personal preference is already a given.
  
 One great thing recently coming out of the never ending 007/009 debate is that some have said that the current production 007 is the _best _007 (after the port mod), which should make life easier for those not wanting second hand headphones.


----------



## Lan647

vandyman said:


> *I see you trying to make the case that the 009 is bad by quoting various semi-famous people and the rest of us stating our personal preference which happens to disagree with you.*
> 
> 
> Really? Because it seems to me that we are all in agreement that one should hear both and then get the one you prefer.


 

 I think you should go back a few pages and read again. I'm just politely pointing out to certain users (no names) who, instead of just accepting my opinion, are quick to complain about my choice of amp, source or whatever it may be - that I'm not the only one sharing that opinion. How is that wrong? 

 Whatever, I'll just keep my mouth shut from now on.


----------



## ufospls2

Hey guys,
  
 I asked this question in the Abyss thread, but I thought I might as well ask the Stax guys as well, and see what the responses are. I am trying to decide between the SR-009 and the Abyss. I would be pairing the SR-009 with a 323s at first, then later down the road a kgsshv most likely, or another solid state amp of similar quality. I would be pairing the Abyss with my Auralic Taurus Mk2. I have heard the SR009 before, and loved it. I'm not a bass head, but I do love good bass, and the SR009 had great bass to me. Perhaps with a tiny bit of eq to bring up the low end it would be perfect. I mostly listen to electronic stuff, metal, rock, some pop, and jazz. I won't be able to try out the Abyss it looks like sadly, so I'm trying to get as much info as I can online first. What do you guys think? Thanks for the help!


----------



## icebear

Given your music preference, I'd say ... get the Abyss.


----------



## joseph69

ufospls2 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I asked this question in the Abyss thread, but I thought I might as well ask the Stax guys as well, and see what the responses are. I am trying to decide between the SR-009 and the Abyss. I would be pairing the SR-009 with a 323s at first, then later down the road a kgsshv most likely, or another solid state amp of similar quality. I would be pairing the Abyss with my Auralic Taurus Mk2. I have heard the SR009 before, and loved it. I'm not a bass head, but I do love good bass, and the SR009 had great bass to me. Perhaps with a tiny bit of eq to bring up the low end it would be perfect. I mostly listen to electronic stuff, metal, rock, some pop, and jazz. I won't be able to try out the Abyss it looks like sadly, so I'm trying to get as much info as I can online first. What do you guys think? Thanks for the help!


 
 There was an Abyss on the F/S forum about 1 week ago (don't know if it sold?) for I believe half it retail price…just letting you know incase you decide to go with the Abyss.


----------



## soren_brix

icebear said:


> Given your music preference, I'd say ... get the Abyss.


 
 don't know why you recommend an old Cameron movie when the guy obviously wants a decent pair of headphones?


----------



## VandyMan

lan647 said:


> I think you should go back a few pages and read again. I'm just politely pointing out to certain users (no names) who, instead of just accepting my opinion, are quick to complain about my choice of amp, source or whatever it may be - that I'm not the only one sharing that opinion. How is that wrong?
> 
> Whatever, I'll just keep my mouth shut from now on.


 
  
 Sorry, did not realize that. Thought you meant my post and the ones around it. I hope you *don't* keep your mouth shut, but the whole 009 vs 007 debate is getting a bit overdone, IMO.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Lots of debate concerning Stax are overdone when looking at former Stax threads, that used to be...so useful, precisely. Golden age from the past...

 Ali


----------



## soren_brix

vandyman said:


> the whole 009 vs 007 debate is getting a bit overdone, IMO.


 
 blown out of proportions ... some posters relentlessly jump on every oppertunity to repeat themself - like they need the world to approve what ever headphone they might have


----------



## ufospls2

icebear said:


> Given your music preference, I'd say ... get the Abyss.


 
  
 Hm, interesting. Thank you. 


joseph69 said:


> There was an Abyss on the F/S forum about 1 week ago (don't know if it sold?) for I believe half it retail price…just letting you know incase you decide to go with the Abyss.


 
 Sadly it has sold. It was not meant to be I suppose 
  


soren_brix said:


> don't know why you recommend an old Cameron movie when the guy obviously wants a decent pair of headphones?


 
 Uwotm8. Do you dislike the Abyss? If so, what do you dislike about them?


----------



## soren_brix

ufospls2 said:


> Uwotm8. Do you dislike the Abyss? If so, what do you dislike about them?


 
 ...why don't you spent just a few hours reading the various threads before posting and asking for opinions on some old junk movie


----------



## ufospls2

soren_brix said:


> ...why don't you spent just a few hours reading the various threads before posting and asking for opinions on some old junk movie


 
 Because I have read all the threads. Yes, all of them. Why the hostility?


----------



## bmichels

ufospls2 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I asked this question in the Abyss thread, but I thought I might as well ask the Stax guys as well, and see what the responses are. I am trying to decide between the SR-009 and the Abyss. I would be pairing the SR-009 with a 323s at first, then later down the road a kgsshv most likely, or another solid state amp of similar quality. I would be pairing the Abyss with my Auralic Taurus Mk2. I have heard the SR009 before, and loved it. I'm not a bass head, but I do love good bass, and the SR009 had great bass to me. Perhaps with a tiny bit of eq to bring up the low end it would be perfect. I mostly listen to electronic stuff, metal, rock, some pop, and jazz. I won't be able to try out the Abyss it looks like sadly, so I'm trying to get as much info as I can online first. What do you guys think? Thanks for the help!


 
  
 I understood that the KGSShc *Carbon* is supposed to have beed designed specifically for the SR009 to offer better bass than the KGSShc (and I guess the BHSE) ? Is it correct ? 
  
 --> For the SR009 specifically, which is the best amp: the KGSShc *Carbon* or the BHSE (SQ wise,  all price consideration and delivery delay put aside) ?


----------



## Rhamnetin

bmichels said:


> --> For the SR009 specifically, which is the best amp: the KGSShc *Carbon* or the BHSE (SQ wise,  all price consideration and delivery delay put aside) ?


 
  
 Haha.  There's no clear answer for that one.  Both are said to be pretty much equal with regard to sound quality in most ways.  The KGSSHV Carbon is known to have more bass, and it tones down the upper mids/lower treble so says everyone.  So if you're afraid of treble brightness go with the Carbon.  The BHSE is said to have a more liquid, engaging mid range.  I have no experience with the KGSSHV Carbon but that's what the consensus seems to be, if you want to say there is a consensus at all.


----------



## RAZRr1275

Would 110 WPC from a Pioneer SX-1010 be too much power to throw into a SRD-7?


----------



## DougD

razrr1275 said:


> Would 110 WPC from a Pioneer SX-1010 be too much power to throw into a SRD-7?


 
  
 Start with the volume control rotated all the way counter-clockwise, then adjust as necessary.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That's about what my receiver puts out, and I never experienced any overload problems.
  
 I always left my SRD-7 powered and the Staxen plugged in 24x7 except when I was listening to regular speakers. (*) With my ancient SR-X Mk 3, it takes a while sometimes for both membranes to fully "charge up" to the point of sounding balanced and full. And by "a while", I mean not a few seconds, but maybe an hour before I'm sure I'm hearing the full glory.
  
 HTH
  
 (* I recently acquired a Stax SRA-12s integrated amp from Tinkerer, and have retired the SRD-7.)


----------



## Moonhead

Ufospls2

With your Music taste i Would recommend Stax 007, Read somewhere that Birgir mention stax323 would do just fine with 007.
I have owned 009 and 007mkI with KGSSHV and i differently prefered 007, which is a better suited for mutiliple genres, IMO. 

Surely miss some 007.


----------



## purk

bmichels said:


> I understood that the KGSShc *Carbon* is supposed to have beed designed specifically for the SR009 to offer better bass than the KGSShc (and I guess the BHSE) ? Is it correct ?
> 
> --> For the SR009 specifically, which is the best amp: the KGSShc *Carbon* or the BHSE (SQ wise,  all price consideration and delivery delay put aside) ?


 
 It is a tough question to answer.  The Carbon is a very neutral amp that able to cast a massive soundstage.  It is very resolving amplifier but the BHSE with NOS tube does sound more liquid and has a better tonality.  I may prefer the BHSE by just a hair overall but it isn't a clear cut at all.  I still say that the BHSE has better flexibility due to its ability to roll and response well with different tubes.  However, you will have to wait a long time for the BHSE.  Can you find someone to build you a Carbon?  It highly recommended the member Jose C.  I need to look around for his contact but this guy is a master builder just like Headincloud.


----------



## David1961

ufospls2 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I would be pairing the Abyss with my Auralic Taurus Mk2. I have heard the SR009 before, and loved it. I'm not a bass head, but I do love good bass, and the SR009 had great bass to me. Perhaps with a tiny bit of eq to bring up the low end it would be perfect. I mostly listen to electronic stuff, metal, rock, some pop, and jazz. I won't be able to try out the Abyss it looks like sadly, so I'm trying to get as much info as I can online first. What do you guys think? Thanks for the help!





I like you am also not a bass head, and the none Stax amps I've heard with the 009's are my BHSE and astrostar59's two HVSSHV's. 
Between the BHSE and KGSSHV I much prefer the BHSE, but my guess is bass heads would prefer the KGSSHV, I've never heard a Carbon.
From what's been written about the Abyss that too has supposed to have a strong bass, but Abyss owners will be able to say more about that.

The downside ( IMO ) with the BHSE while driving 009's are the stock tubes, myself and I believe other have found the 009's sound uncomfortable, but I'm now using Mullard xf4's and the 009's aren't fatiguing at all, the Yggy has also helped with that.
Lastly, with you not being a bass head, you should ( IMO ) go with the 009's and not the 007's, however to be sure it would be better for you to try both Earspeaker's.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Damn, Birgir's moving sale is so tempting.
  
 http://www.mjolnir-audio.com/sample-page-2/
  
 $2,550 shipped worldwide for a mini KGSSHV.


----------



## 3X0

rhamnetin said:


> Damn, Birgir's moving sale is so tempting.
> 
> http://www.mjolnir-audio.com/sample-page-2/
> 
> $2,550 shipped worldwide for a mini KGSSHV.


Get the mini and toss your KGSS.

His amps hold value and at those prices you'll barely be out shipping if you ever decide to sell.


----------



## Rhamnetin

3x0 said:


> Get the mini and toss your KGSS.
> 
> His amps hold value and at those prices you'll barely be out shipping if you ever decide to sell.


 
  
 Hah, I would if I could.  I could only sell this KGSS for around 1/3 the price of that KGSSHV mini most likely.  I didn't even order the SR-007A yet.  But to anyone in need of electrostatic amps, there you are.


----------



## rgs9200m

To everyone quibbling about 727s and diy things here, get that khsshv-mini in that link above brand new for ~$2500. A no-brainer if you need a stax amp and can beg/borrow/steal the funds. It sounds great on my 007 and 009. I'm not even tempted by the carbon or bhse [OK, just a little to be honest], even though they may be better (I'm not fixing what's not broken.)


----------



## 3X0

rgs9200m said:


> I'm not even tempted by the carbon or bhse [OK, just a little to be honest], even though they may be better *(I'm not fixing what's not broken.)*


That's what I thought about my humble 323S, but I'm taking the leap...


----------



## vapman

3x0 said:


> That's what I thought about my humble 323S, but I'm taking the leap...




You won't regret it. You'll only regret not ditching the 323S sooner!


----------



## axle_69

Hi guys,
  
 Any thoughts about the 353X? And the L700?
 Already went through both threads and still there isn't much information available (or enough opinions to spot a trend).
 Cheers,


----------



## Ali-Pacha

For those using HPS-2 for their Stax, I propose the ultimate mod :

 The toilet paper roll 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Cut it in lengthwise, put it on the top of the stand :
 - it fits perfectly, almost unnoticeable at first sight
 - you'll avoid folding marks on headbands
 - it'll absorb hair's grease...
 - ...and you'll see the grease on it, telling when to change it
  

  
 Ali


----------



## purk

3x0 said:


> Get the mini and toss your KGSS.
> 
> His amps hold value and at those prices you'll barely be out shipping if you ever decide to sell.


 
 Also bare in mind that Birgir's favorite headphone is the SR007, so he has a tendency to voice the amp to sound best with the SR007 and not the SR009.  I have auditioned two KGSSHV mini with one being warmer (prototype) and another is the current mini with greater emphasis on treble.  I would check with him first which is the amp to buy if you prefer the SR009 over the SR007.  Just my take on it.  And the full-size KGSSHVs that I've tried (not Mjolnir units) do sound better compared to the current KGSSHV mini.  So you have to sacrifice some performance by going with the mini, but man it is such a beautiful amp that sounds good to boot.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

purk said:


> Also bare in mind that Birgir's favorite headphone is the SR007, so he has a tendency to voice the amp to sound best with the SR007 and not the SR009.


 
 He won't express it that way, methinks. More likely "C'mon you bunch of halwits, I'm about linearity and transparency, so I DO NOT voice amps. And it's obvious to anyone whith more than one neuron 009 are screw** up, those who prefers 009 to 007 are just deaf morons who have absolutely no screw** clue about it".
 And I'm sure I've forgotten lots of F words and sweet-to-the-hear icelandic cursing on the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Anyway, moving sale so tempting...I've to resist...yes...damn... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## koonhua90

I don't always post, but when I do.
  
 I have been away for a long time now, since I sold the 007 MkI, which I regretted dearly. So last year I made the HV, albeit with much explosions. I couldn't have completed the build if not for the fact that I received tremendous help from the Stax mafia, specifically Victor Chew. It's another 1 year before I finally made the plunge. I asked my friend who's traveling in Tokyo right now to pick up a pair for me. The last pair in stock at E-earphone. I am picking it up 3 days from now.
  
 Another friend of mine got me itchy again. I got a pair of Dynaudio recently, and have just auditioned the Maggies 1.7 powered by the incredible Sanders ESL amp (capable of almost 800W into 4 ohm). I will be checking out the Soltanus Acoustics ESL speakers too. Safe to say that, my dream speakers build is just a pair of Maggie 3.7i with the Sanders Magtech amp, which cost less than $10k. Or I might consider the Sanders ESL speakers, or the Soltanus Acoustics ESL speakers. I do like Quad, but I have heard that their quality has not been where it was during their heyday.
  
 There's too many dynamic cans out there, too many amps, Stax makes it easier to pick. Sometimes less choices is better for me. I like planar headphones and speakers a lot. But even then there's too many planar magnetic cans out there. For speakers, there are less choices so easier to choose. If one day after getting the speakers, and I still find myself having too much money lying around, which is highly unlikely (and rather impossible) I would take a look at the gorgeous yet priced over-the-line Orpheus II.
  
 Many thanks to many people, Kevin Gilmore, Spritzer (Birgir), Lil Knight, Victor Chew, Kerry, RiStaR, the lot of Stax mafias, and Currawong, Shigzeo, and AnakChan, and the rest of whom I might have missed. I can't be too happy yet, not 100% sure my HV is working. But from measurements it should be alright. Voltage swings to Vpp of 1.8kV, bias voltage is alright.
  


  
 Cheers.


----------



## Lan647

Congrats man! Beautiful wrapping you've got there.


----------



## koonhua90

I waited for this for 4 years. Heartfelt thanks to Stax mafias.
  
 I have had much explosions when making the HV, this time I plugged the 009 into it and it.....
  
  
 exploded into some great music. The downside is, I seem to hear a lot of background details which I hadn't heard before. All the hisses and cracks, all the flaws in the recordings...
  
 The next big purchase would be a better DAC with pre-amp out. Then will be the Soltanus Acoustics ESL speakers, and then the Sanders Magtech power amp.


----------



## astrostar59

koonhua90 said:


> I waited for this for 4 years. Heartfelt thanks to Stax mafias.
> 
> I have had much explosions when making the HV, this time I plugged the 009 into it and it.....
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats, I am glad you got your KGSShv going. I have 2 and they are both great amps and sound superb with the 009s. I assume you built the amp yourself?


----------



## axle_69

koonhua90 said:


> I waited for this for 4 years. Heartfelt thanks to Stax mafias.


 
  
 Congratulations!
 I may have understood it wrong. Did it take you 4 years to build it? I was planning to build an amplifier and get a 009 in the long run but that day may have to come sooner than planned (the way things are going my L700+353X are at risk of being speakernapped by my daughter). If it did, nothing wrong with it, just wanted to know when to start (study, learn, buy components, measure, takes a lot of time but is great fun, took me almost a year to build a 300B PSE).
 Cheers.


----------



## koonhua90

axle_69 said:


> Congratulations!
> I may have understood it wrong. Did it take you 4 years to build it? I was planning to build an amplifier and get a 009 in the long run but that day may have to come sooner than planned (the way things are going my L700+353X are at risk of being speakernapped by my daughter). If it did, nothing wrong with it, just wanted to know when to start (study, learn, buy components, measure, takes a lot of time but is great fun, took me almost a year to build a 300B PSE).
> Cheers.


 
  
 I built it last year and waited a year before pulling the trigger. Now JPY is going up, I figured I should get one before it goes up more.
  
 I used to have the Omega Mk1 with SRM-T1 which was modified by Spritzer, a Stax 507,  LCD-3 and ATH-W3000ANV close to 4 years ago. With the Omega Mk1 I sold the others and never look back. I then sold the Mk1 as I thought that I needed the cash, which eventually I didn't anyway. Ever since I have regretted selling the 007, thus I decided to one day DIY a Stax amp so I could get the 009. I learned and stumbled along the way, but eventually with the help I received from the community I managed to complete it.
  
 Even just now I have to troubleshoot and found out that I have a lemon volume pot. I am running pot-less now. Sound is perfect, or as pristine as it could be. I had a session listening to the Soltanus Acoustics ESL Virtuoso (full range crossover-less) yesterday, powered by a Magtech amp, and the ESL was one class above the Maggies I heard. The 009 I am hearing now is very consistent with my impression of the Soltanus ESL, except the 009 hits harder down low, and have a much linear bass extension.
  
 The DIY forum is quite friendly, provided you know what you are doing and saying. Have fun learning and building.


----------



## zolkis

I have spent about 2 hours with the following gear:
  
 (Energizers)
 Stax SRM-007t II
 Stax SRM-353X
 Nebuchadnezzar:  http://knob.planet.ee/amps/staxneb1/staxneb1.htm
 (I will call it Nezzar for shorter name).
  
 (Ear speakers)
 Stax SR-L500
 Stax SR-L700
 Stax SR-007 Mk 1 (modified)
 Stax SR-007 Mk II
 Stax SR-009
  
 Thanks to Audelec (http://www.audelec.fi) for the opportunity. The reason I went there was to hear Erik Konka's Nezzar amp, compared to some Stax amps I know. The Nezzar has recently been reviewed in a Finnish Hi-Fi magazine, and the test unit was still lingering there before going back to Estonia, so I took the opportunity.
  
 Disclaimer: I have no interest, nor conflict of interest and no financial gains in doing this short review.
  
 Since 2 hours is enough just for a first impression, I tried to minimize variables, and used gear that I know. To determine how things scale, I included the L500 and L700 as well. Then, I had well known classical, instrumental and jazz music that I used for testing for many years. Anyway, take all this with much salt: too short time, and too many genres missing. I'd make only a few subjective comments now about the gear above.
  
 The 353X was a positive experience again, it could actually drive all present Stax headphones, and the sound quality was closer to the 007t II than the price difference would suggest.
 I would definitely recommend the 353X over the 323S.
  
 The L500 sounded like any other nice headphone, a bit more confined stage than the L700. It's a good (the best) entry level Stax headphone, and good match with the 353X, but I would go and get the L700 instead.
  
 The L700 was closer to the 009 than to the L500, and it is likely the sweet spot of all current Stax headphones. It sounds like a better 507, spacious, relaxed, ethereal, without the 507's problems, and with better sound stage and more solidity in midrange. Of course you get what you pay for, the 009 is more exact, has yet fuller midrange, and better stage, but still, you're not losing much music with the L700. Especially when going from the 353X to the SRM-007t II, or even better, the Nezzar. If you are contemplating the L700, I think the Nezzar would make the best synergy from the amps above. But if you trust Stax more, you'd be happy with the 353X + L700, or with a tube amp and the L700.
  
 The 007t II is like a more harmonically rich 353X, and the Nezzar is somewhat richer and perhaps a bit more refined than the SRM-007t II. The 353X is not much behind these two, though, but the difference is there. The Nezzar makes the 009 sound really sweet and musical, with nicely layered stage and powerful, resolving bass.
  
 I didn't spent much time with the SR-007 Mk II, as IMHO the L700 sounded better, unless you prefer darker sounding headphones with somewhat deeper tonality.
  
 The 007 Mk1 sounded softer than the L700 (in the musical sense, i.e. less hard, though I wouldn't call the L700 hard sounding), with more colors and resolution in the mids and bass. It was more pleasant listening experience anyway. In addition, I like the fact that I can meticulously adjust the headband of the 007 Mk1 to the right fit on my head, something impossible with the new Stax headbands. So no, I would not trade the L700 for my trusty (modified) 007 Mk1.
  
 I don't know if the Nezzar is among the best amps for the notoriously difficult 007 Mk1, but I was happy how it has driven it -- let's call it sufficiently powerful. Again I could not decide if I liked the 009 or the 007 Mk1 more. Each had their strong sides, and no weak sides really.
  
 Anyway the end of the story is that I was quite happy with the Nezzar, reminding me to Leben sound signature: highly musical, resolving, nice layered sound stage, rich in harmonics, yet closer to neutral than to being warm. I'd give it that I liked it more than the SRM-007t II, though for such statement a lot more testing would be needed.
 Note that the Nezzar unit I tested looked more like a prototype, but I understood that production versions are on the way. I don't know the exact price, but AFAIK it is quite reasonable. Well done.


----------



## Drumonron

Pulled the trigger and just ordered the SR-007 MK2, I looked over many impressions and I'm taking the plunge.  I was struggling with either the 007 or 009 but I decided to go with the 007.  Wish me luck.  PS.  Been a long time since I posted!  Let me just say I have no intentions of ordering a 5 - 10k amp for it.  Gonna use what I have been using and see what I think.  Good to see this community is still thriving.


----------



## koonhua90

astrostar59 said:


> Congrats, I am glad you got your KGSShv going. I have 2 and they are both great amps and sound superb with the 009s. I assume you built the amp yourself?


 
  
 Built it myself with the help from the DIY community.


----------



## David1961

drumonron said:


> Pulled the trigger and just ordered the SR-007 MK2, I looked over many impressions and I'm taking the plunge.  I was struggling with either the 007 or 009 but I decided to go with the 007.  Wish me luck.  PS.  Been a long time since I posted!  Let me just say I have no intentions of ordering a 5 - 10k amp for it.  Gonna use what I have been using and see what I think.  Good to see this community is still thriving.




Seeing how you've ordered an SR-007mk2 but have no intentions of getting an amp like the BHSE, and probably don't want to try building an amp yourself, I would suggest you have a look on mjolnir-audio.com


----------



## purk

david1961 said:


> Seeing how you've ordered an SR-007mk2 but have no intentions of getting an amp like the BHSE, and probably don't want to try building an amp yourself, I would suggest you have a look on mjolnir-audio.com


 
 Yup, a great recommendation on mjolnir audio.  Also, pay attention to the FS forum as well.  I saw a great sounding KGSSHV full-size on sale there too for $2500.


----------



## paradoxper

Unapologetically and shamelessly plugging myself.  My KGSSHV, which is full size and built by Geoff is For Sale.


----------



## David1961

paradoxper said:


> Unapologetically and shamelessly plugging myself.  My KGSSHV, which is full size and built by Geoff is For Sale for $2600 shipped.




I've heard two KGSSHV's built by Geoff owned by astrostar59 with my 009 and Julian's 007mk2, and both Earspeaker's sounded very good with both amps. 
The build quality was/is also very good, IMO.


----------



## rgs9200m

It's a very good idea to get the SR007. Lots of folks who jump into Stax for the first time with no previous experience and start with the SR009s have problems because these take a lot of work to get right and are very revealing, to say the least.
 The SR007 is a very absorbing headphone that lets you focus on the music and represents Stax at its best.
 The worst situation is for someone who is not familiar with high-end headphones at all to jump into the 009 and discover they are not plug-and-play when the 009s do their thing.
 I just spent most of last evening going through some favorite SACDs with the SR007 and was yet again astounded at their sweet detail and impact and musicality and truth (with a KGSSHV mini).
 As a side note, for some reason, I find Stax phones and SACDs are an extremely good match, like they were made for each other, with a real synergy going on there.


----------



## bmichels

> Originally Posted by *rgs9200m* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...the SR009s have problems because these take a lot of work to get right and are very revealing, to say the least....they are not plug-and-play...


 
  
 what do you mean ?  What type of work is needed to make the SR009 work ? some type of tuning ?


----------



## purk

paradoxper said:


> Unapologetically and shamelessly plugging myself.  My KGSSHV, which is full size and built by Geoff is For Sale.


 
 Please someone buy this amp!  The volume control is sick so as a custom chassis.  Worth every penny IMO and I'm not affiliated with the seller.  If I don't already have the KGSSHV Carbon, I'll be all over this.  Plus it is a full-size KGSSHV in a smaller chassis.  Tough to beat that.


----------



## Rhamnetin

purk said:


> Please someone buy this amp!  The volume control is sick so as a custom chassis.  Worth every penny IMO and I'm not affiliated with the seller.  If I don't already have the KGSSHV Carbon, I'll be all over this.  Plus it is a full-size KGSSHV in a smaller chassis.  Tough to beat that.


 
  
 Someone, give me the funds so I can buy this KGSSHV!
  
 Quote:


bmichels said:


> what do you mean ?  What type of work is needed to make the SR009 work ? some type of tuning ?


 
  
 He means the SR-009 is too bright for him and a few others.


----------



## rgs9200m

The 009 will transmit loud and clear any digital upper-mid emphasis that is in the recording or digital source and this can easily be fatiguing or worse if you are sensitive to this. If the amp adds to this too (like the Stax amps do to my ears, and apparently to people like Tyll), you are in trouble.


----------



## sensui123

purk said:


> Please someone buy this amp!  The volume control is sick so as a custom chassis.  Worth every penny IMO and I'm not affiliated with the seller.  If I don't already have the KGSSHV Carbon, I'll be all over this.  Plus it is a full-size KGSSHV in a smaller chassis.  Tough to beat that.


 
  
 If I didn't have a build with Birgir currently I'd be all over that piece of art.  Best luck with sale paradoxper......spectacular amp.


----------



## mulveling

sensui123 said:


> If I didn't have a build with Birgir currently I'd be all over that piece of art.  Best luck with sale paradoxper......spectacular amp.


 
 I'd dump it and get that one, lol.


----------



## sensui123

mulveling said:


> I'd dump it and get that one, lol.


 
  
 Hah.....maybe I should have consulted with paradoxper prior to the purchase....but I am commited for a KGSSHV Carbon already so I'll wait for that one.  Awesome looking build regardless.


----------



## purk

sensui123 said:


> Hah.....maybe I should have consulted with paradoxper prior to the purchase....but I am commited for a KGSSHV Carbon already so I'll wait for that one.  Awesome looking build regardless.




High quality stepped attenuator can go a long way as well as high purity wiring. Just saying.


----------



## David1961

sensui123 said:


> I am commited for a KGSSHV Carbon already so I'll wait for that one.




A KGSSHV Carbon will be my next stats amp, but hopefully Justin will start building his version of that amp, I could then put a deposit down, and save the rest while it's being built.


----------



## mulveling

sensui123 said:


> Hah.....maybe I should have consulted with paradoxper prior to the purchase....but I am commited for a KGSSHV Carbon already so I'll wait for that one.  Awesome looking build regardless.


 
 Ah, it's a Carbon, so you're good there, at least 
 But yeah, that HV looks awesome.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Uncommon Stax porn : http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Ensemble-Micro-Seiki-STAX-/252258638515
  
 Ali


----------



## mulveling

ali-pacha said:


> Uncommon Stax porn : http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Ensemble-Micro-Seiki-STAX-/252258638515
> 
> Ali


 
 Wow -- was unaware! If Stax made electrostatic cartridges today, I can pretty much guarantee I'd be dumping my overpriced MC carts in a heartbeat.


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> Unapologetically and shamelessly plugging myself.  My KGSSHV, which is full size and built by Geoff is For Sale.


 

 I can vouch for this amp. I bought the next unit from Geoff and then another later to use in a second system. They both sound superb. The build is first rate, the insides actually look better than the outsides. It is a solid amp with attention to detail, it doesn't look DIY at all IMO.
  
 Anyone wanting feedback on my KGSShv amps PM me. Buy it, you won't be sorry.


----------



## Bjmjpl

Hello all, 

Noob but been reading for the last couple years. 

Have been saving up. Stax 009 and temp stax amp landed last year. Amazing. 

Bhse finally shipping soon from Justin. 

All this based on my reading of these threads so thank you all! 

Have pono... What is best cable (balanced) for the set up I am going to have when Justin ships my beautiful dark purple Bhse? 

Any other recommendations? 

Thank you all again... 

VERY excited!


----------



## Michgelsen

Best cable? Don't know as I'm not a believer, but bluejeanscable make very high quality cables for reasonable prices.


----------



## sensui123

bjmjpl said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Noob but been reading for the last couple years.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Personally a very big fan of toxic cable.  I'd give Frank on the forums a PM and he'll let you know your options.  Would pair beautifully I'm sure with the BHSE with your source.


----------



## rgs9200m

I suggest a Cardas Golden Cross. It's nice and warm and full and silky and makes a nice counterpoint to the 009, and it's not too pricey and you can often get them used if you look around. It's stood the test of time for a couple of decades now.
 It's a thick cable, but very flexible.


----------



## zolkis

> Have pono... What is best cable (balanced) for the set up I am going to have when Justin ships my beautiful dark purple Bhse?


 
  
 Copper, high purity, low tension crystalline structure (comes from how the cable is pulled), solid core, multiple strands with variable cross section and woven pattern. Insulation should ensure homogeneous electromagnetic field across the cable (a complex topic). At least that's the mambo-jumbo I heard from the company that makes by far the best cables I've tested, the Alisca Black Line (BL) series. Yeah, I thought so, you never heard about them .
  
 The story was that I was looking for woofer cable in one of my projects, came across the guy in a mailing list who was bragging to have made world's best cables (as everyone else does) and for some strange impulse I gave these cables a chance. I didn't expect but it went way deeper than my former reference Nordost cables, and had cleaner sound with deeper bass and better dynamics than Transparent Audio Reference series cables. Jaw on the floor for the difference they made, it was like the last door opened and last veil torn, never thought my speakers and headphones could go this low with this kind of energy. And the price was only a fraction of what the big names cost.
  
 The interconnects made more difference than the speaker cables, especially in sound stage and dynamics. The speaker cables made less cumulative difference, but about the same difference as the power cables and digital cables. They all made the same kinds of differences, on slightly different scale. Actually all equipment they make, DAC, amp etc make the same differences: more relaxed, effortlessly dynamic, lifelike  sound. I have bought from them all the cables that I ever needed, be it internal or external wiring. Made by Alisca Orange in Budapest, (see email here, the brain's name is Attila, and looks like Doc from the Back to the Future). 
  
 Then it happened that my rather cable-skeptic friend from Iceland (not Birgir) took my cables on the loan for a week to electrify his rather huge Dunlavy speakers... and he ended up buying them too and smirked at me like "I know they should not sound better, but they do". 
  
 Mind you this was not a small investment, but was worth it. Prices were IIRC ~320 euros for 2x75 cm RCA pair (the best ones with 12 strands, type name BL12.NS) but ~220 euros for 2x75 cm BL9.S balanced interconnect which only needs 9 strands. Speaker cable and power cable much cheaper, for about 150 euros for a 2x200 cm pair of BL6.NS speaker cable and same meter price for power cables.
  
 Beware these cables are heavy and hard to bend as they contain much more copper than your average ultra high end cable, and even many transformers; you can bend them but slowly; they are meant for permanent installations. Yet I am shamelessly advertising them, they absolutely deserve it.
  
 Because the hardness it's probably not really good for light players like the _pono,_ as they would keep the player in mid air . However, I bet their cheaper OR line of cables would be good enough and those are more flexible too, and only cost 60 euros for 60cm RCA interconnect pair. The price difference comes from the number, diameter, and woven structure of the solid copper strands, and also from the (patented) special insulation.
  
 If that is still too much dark magic for you, then go and buy your needed length of solid core copper cable from your hardware store, 3 different gauges, 2 thinner and one thicker, weave them together with 3x3 (2 thin and one thick) strands for balanced, terminate them and enjoy. You will end up with pretty good sound for quite cheap, and knowing that you have made them will only make them sound sweeter .
  
 OK guys, I am done with cables on this forum . Don't start a war on me, I have just expressed my real and long term validated experiences .


----------



## zolkis

rgs9200m said:


> I suggest a Cardas Golden Cross. It's nice and warm and full and silky and makes a nice counterpoint to the 009, and it's not too pricey and you can often get them used if you look around. It's stood the test of time for a couple of decades now.
> It's a thick cable, but very flexible.


 
  
 Yeah, for the given _pono_ application Cardas GC makes sense. IIRC it's solid core copper with rectangular cross section, side dimensions in golden ratio.


----------



## paradoxper

LMAO.


----------



## rgs9200m

Thanks Zolkis.


----------



## HemiSam

Is there a Cliffs Notes version?
  
  





  
 HS


----------



## wink

Can I get one with unicorn feather coating...?


----------



## scotsstax

sorry to buttt in but i just fixed i hope a pair o sr404 sigs with srm3 driver amp i usrd 1 micron mylar phey what a job!!will i get more sound qual and r esponse fropm pc anti static gel also splitting thosse brass ring stators removing old glue mate..............!!!!will some overnight burn in tine benefit them gradualy ??wil addin ink tothe gel help sensitivity and sound m8  ps what s the best to remove the glue? im using evo stik contact and its quite thick m8, im new to this , ive done quad 57s , but holy god this is mental!!!! cheers guys


----------



## Lonely_Rider

rgs9200m said:


> The 009 will transmit loud and clear any digital upper-mid emphasis that is in the recording or digital source and this can easily be fatiguing or worse if you are sensitive to this. If the amp adds to this too (like the Stax amps do to my ears, and apparently to people like Tyll), you are in trouble.


 
  
 For me, there is no upper mid range emphasis in 727 with, like with KGST, when using SR-009.


----------



## zolkis

> Originally Posted by *rgs9200m*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 IMHO the 009 (at least mine) does have a slight upper mids emphasis around 4 kHz, and if the recording or upstream equipment has it as well, it may become too much. With normal recordings it comes through as enhanced clarity, sounding musical, and doesn't make the music sound any harder.


----------



## Pokemonn

zolkis said:


> IMHO the 009 (at least mine) does have a slight upper mids emphasis around 4 kHz, and if the recording or upstream equipment has it as well, it may become too much. With normal recordings it comes through as enhanced clarity, sounding musical, and doesn't make the music sound any harder.


 

 I bought 009 twice lol..my first 009 was very bright.that was almost unlistenable. 2nd pair of 009 (which I own now) is OK and bit need EQ in treble.


----------



## AnakChan

pokemonn said:


> I bought 009 twice lol..my first 009 was very bright.that was almost unlistenable. 2nd pair of 009 (which I own now) is OK and bit need EQ in treble.


 

 Wonder if there was something wrong with your 1st 009. Was it new or 2nd hand? Last June arnaud, donnyhifi, wallabee & myself got together for a Stax afternoon and we had 3xSR-009s (2x from 2012 and 1x from 2015, 2 weeks old) and although there were subtle differences, they weren't as drastically different that one could be listened to whilst the others not.
  

  
 P.S. We also had SR-007Mk1s (& one SR-007Mk2) there of different ages. Also slight differences here and there - in fact the differences between the SR-007Mk1s were bigger than the differences in the SR-009's


----------



## joseph69

anakchan said:


> Wonder if there was something wrong with your 1st 009. Was it new or 2nd hand? Last June arnaud, donnyhifi, wallabee & myself got together for a Stax afternoon and we had 3xSR-009s (2x from 2012 and 1x from 2015, 2 weeks old) and although there were subtle differences, they weren't as drastically different that one could be listened to whilst the others not.
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. We also had SR-007Mk1s (& one SR-007Mk2) there of different ages. Also slight differences here and there - in fact the differences between the SR-007Mk1s were bigger than the differences in the SR-009's


 
 In short how did the afternoon go?
 Which combo/s did most of you prefer?
 Thanks


----------



## AnakChan

joseph69 said:


> In short how did the afternoon go?
> Which combo/s did most of you prefer?
> Thanks


 
  
 That day was really more an amp/DAC comparison with a curiosity of whether the new production SR-009 really was an improvement over the older 2012 (or 2011?) ones. Not too sure if I should be speaking on behalf of my colleagues (they are members here afterall) but the BHSE stood out clearly from the KGST, Electra, and SRM-007tA. For the headphones, there were small but noticeable differences between the new and old SR-009's however at least to me not as much as had been expressed in here and other forums. We were speculating it was the pads that were the differences however at $240 for a pair, at least I wasn't prepared to spend that much for that difference and would rather wait till my current SR-009 pads were truly well/worn out before considering changing.

 The differences in the SR-007Mk1s were also noticeably different and again we think it could be the pads.

 For me,  if I were able to nitpick, then yes it would be the new SR-009, BHSE (with XF4? tubes?), & TotalDAC was my sonic bliss for that day.

 P.S. it's been more than 6 months a little too long to articulate the differences in detail but if you search around the forums here, I think you may read a few snippets here and there (possibly in the Electra, KGST, or BHSE threads) from the various members who were at the gathering.


----------



## joseph69

anakchan said:


> That day was really more an amp/DAC comparison with a curiosity of whether the new production SR-009 really was an improvement over the older 2012 (or 2011?) ones. Not too sure if I should be speaking on behalf of my colleagues (they are members here afterall) but the BHSE stood out clearly from the KGST, Electra, and SRM-007tA. For the headphones, there were small but noticeable differences between the new and old SR-009's however at least to me not as much as had been expressed in here and other forums. We were speculating it was the pads that were the differences however at $240 for a pair, at least I wasn't prepared to spend that much for that difference and would rather wait till my current SR-009 pads were truly well/worn out before considering changing.
> 
> The differences in the SR-007Mk1s were also noticeably different and again we think it could be the pads.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you.
 I was asking because I to have had the 009 which I purchased a few months ago paired with a KGSShv (spritzer) and a PWDll and found the 009 to be quite bright so I sold off the 009/KGSShv. Long story short, I had a BHSE (expected sometime in March/April) on order at the time and I have now purchased another 009 and a quad matched set of NOS Amperex EL34's…hopefully my experience is different this time around with the BHSE/NOS tubes because I really liked the 009 but they were unbearable at times…even at low volumes.
 Thank for the info!


----------



## astrostar59

anakchan said:


> Wonder if there was something wrong with your 1st 009. Was it new or 2nd hand? Last June arnaud, donnyhifi, wallabee & myself got together for a Stax afternoon and we had 3xSR-009s (2x from 2012 and 1x from 2015, 2 weeks old) and although there were subtle differences, they weren't as drastically different that one could be listened to whilst the others not.
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. We also had SR-007Mk1s (& one SR-007Mk2) there of different ages. Also slight differences here and there - in fact the differences between the SR-007Mk1s were bigger than the differences in the SR-009's


 
 Oh my, what headphone porn! Love it. I am glad to hear that most likely the 009s are consistent. Stax do seem to almost deny any tweaking which I guess is the '_manufacturers exercise the right to update or modify this products without notice_' which is the common statement we see a lot on almost any hifi product specification sheet. It gives them the freedom to improve them going forward.
  
 Not sure, but that MK2 looks like a later Japanese version? The exports were black. I have a late 007A Japanese issue and it is very good, a lot better than my previous MK2 black unit and close to a 007 MK I have heard at a friends house.


----------



## bmichels

joseph69 said:


> Thank you.
> I was asking because I to have had the 009 which I purchased a few months ago paired with a KGSShv (spritzer) and a PWDll and found the 009 to be quite bright so I sold off the 009/KGSShv. Long story short, I had a BHSE (expected sometime in March/April) on order at the time and I have now purchased another 009 and a quad matched set of NOS Amperex EL34's…hopefully my experience is different this time around with the BHSE/NOS tubes because I really liked the 009 but they were unbearable at times…even at low volumes.
> Thank for the info!


 
  
 Interesting.
  
 And will the BHSE/NOS solve the "too bright" issue you experienced with the KGSShv ?   Do you think that the Carbon could also solve this issue ?


----------



## noxa

Anyone have experience of the Woo Wee? Any thoughts of it vs a Stax amp say the 323S?


----------



## bmichels

anakchan said:


> .... if I were able to nitpick, then yes it would be the new SR-009, BHSE (with XF4? tubes?), & TotalDAC was my sonic bliss for that day.


 
  
 AnakChan, did you (or the fellows at the meet) expressed any concern about the BHSE+SR009 being a little too bright (in the long run) ?


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> Thank you.
> I was asking because I to have had the 009 which I purchased a few months ago paired with a KGSShv (spritzer) and a PWDll and found the 009 to be quite bright so I sold off the 009/KGSShv. Long story short, I had a BHSE (expected sometime in March/April) on order at the time and I have now purchased another 009 and a quad matched set of NOS Amperex EL34's…hopefully my experience is different this time around with the BHSE/NOS tubes because I really liked the 009 but they were unbearable at times…even at low volumes.
> Thank for the info!


 

 Interesting. I to have the 009s with a KGSShv Off-board with Sanyo parts. I don't find it too bright at all, in fact my amp if anything is slightly warm.
 And if anything the same or less bright / transparent than the BHSE when I have heard that amp.
  
 I have (read) on this forum some KGSShvs can be brighter than others, though I can't confirm that myself. Possibly those 'brighter' amps were voiced for the darker 007s?
 Of course the DAC used can have an impact as well, it needs be as good as the 009s basically i.e. probably not a budget DAC.
  
 So, I wouldn't worry about it, with the BHSE and the 009s and good EL34s you will be fine.


----------



## AnakChan

bmichels said:


> AnakChan, did you (or the fellows at the meet) expressed any concern about the BHSE+SR009 being a little too bright (in the long run) ?


 
  
 Nope. However I think the SR-009 in general seems to get more love in Japan than Stax fans in other countries.


----------



## bmichels

anakchan said:


> Nope. However I think the SR-009 in general seems to get more love in Japan than Stax fans in other countries.



Thanks got the reply. 
But.... since I have no possibility to compare the BHSE and the Carbon before purchase,* for the SR009*, will you recommande buying a BHSE or a Carbon ? Which is the "safest" buy ?


----------



## astrostar59

bmichels said:


> Thanks got the reply.
> But.... since I have no possibility to compare the BHSE and the Carbon before purchase,* for the SR009*, will you recommande buying a BHSE or a Carbon ? Which is the "safest" buy ?


 

 That is difficult. The Carbon is a DIY amp, and like the KGSSHv (also DIY) there are builds and parts count / variations on the PCBs that affect the sound. Clearly reading posts from owners who have had 3 or 4 KGSShv's they are saying different.
  
 I have not heard the Carbon yet, but I can say I would be very happy *with either a BHSE or a KGSShv (sanyo parts) and the 009s*. That is what I have heard and like so much. If you can wait for the build time, I would say go for a BHSE while Justin is still building them. I can't say on the Carbon yet as I have not heard it, so won't offer advice on that yet.


----------



## bearFNF

noxa said:


> Anyone have experience of the Woo Wee? Any thoughts of it vs a Stax amp say the 323S?


I have Wee and used it for a year or so. Not using it now as I have a LL2 and my BHSE is almost here. But you can't really compare the Wee to an amp as it really depends on the speaker amp you hook it up to. If I were to do it again I'd would buy an amp as apposed to the Wee. It's more convenient to only have to deal with one component instead of two. Just my thoughts on the issue.


----------



## joseph69

bmichels said:


> Interesting.
> And will the BHSE/NOS solve the "too bright" issue you experienced with the KGSShv ?   Do you think that the Carbon could also solve this issue ?


 
 I don't know the answers to your first questions…but will find out when I receive the BHSE.
 And as for the second question...I have no idea.
  


astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. I to have the 009s with a KGSShv Off-board with Sanyo parts. I don't find it too bright at all, in fact my amp if anything is slightly warm.
> And if anything the same or less bright / transparent than the BHSE when I have heard that amp.
> I have (read) on this forum some KGSShvs can be brighter than others, though I can't confirm that myself. Possibly those 'brighter' amps were voiced for the darker 007s?
> Of course the DAC used can have an impact as well, it needs be as good as the 009s basically i.e. probably not a budget DAC.
> So, I wouldn't worry about it, with the BHSE and the 009s and good EL34s you will be fine.


 
 It is interesting because my combo was bright. 
 I wouldn't consider the PWDll to be a budget DAC, and also the reason I'm giving the 009/BHSE combo a go is because maybe it won't be as bright as the KGSShv…there was only one way for me to find out so, I'll keep you posted when the BHSE arrives.


----------



## sensui123

bmichels said:


> Thanks got the reply.
> But.... since I have no possibility to compare the BHSE and the Carbon before purchase,* for the SR009*, will you recommande buying a BHSE or a Carbon ? Which is the "safest" buy ?




I can offer insight when my bhse is finished. The carbon and bhse will be my electrostat game starters. I couldn't decide which either and figured you need both tube and solid state anyway.


----------



## mulveling

I've heard a mjolnir mini kgsshv that has the distinction of being the brightest stat amp I've ever heard. So yeah, that's definitely not a "bright" idea to pair with a 009.


----------



## Rhamnetin

mulveling said:


> I've heard a mjolnir mini kgsshv that has the distinction of being the brightest stat amp I've ever heard. So yeah, that's definitely not a "bright" idea to pair with a 009.


 
  
 Yeah I assume he voices them for the SR-007 since that's his preferred Stax.


----------



## karlgerman

Same for my mjolnir kgss that sound bright, but pairing with a SR-007 does not have the resolution of my 009.


----------



## nemomec

joseph69 said:


> It is interesting because my combo was bright.
> I wouldn't consider the PWDll to be a budget DAC, and also the reason I'm giving the 009/BHSE combo a go is because maybe it won't be as bright as the KGSShv…there was only one way for me to find out so, I'll keep you posted when the BHSE arrives.


 
 I had also last year the PWDII Dac here in my electrostatic setup. The PS Audio sounds to bright with all my E-Stats, especially SR-009 with a very technical unatural sound signature. The SR-009 is in my experience a extrem transparent headphone without own signature and the performance scales and depends on your source setup (amp, dac, etc.).


----------



## Pokemonn

didn't know that kgss are bright... I'm still newb of stax. 
  
 Does Tyll's KGSSSRE sound bright?
  
 Do you stax mafias think Big Sound 2015 project's 009 setup(DAC amp etc.etc.) was something wrong to evaluate 009 properly?
  
 about KGSSSRE
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/stax-mafia-makes-unrefusable-offer-and-i-begin-electrostatic-headphone-measurement-program


----------



## purk

pokemonn said:


> didn't know that kgss are bright... I'm still newb of stax.
> 
> Does Tyll's KGSSSRE sound bright?
> 
> ...


 
 Could be but I can't say for 100%.  It really depends on the parts used as well as voicing.  Heck I used to have three KGSSHVs at one point in time and they don't sound the same.  Even a different attenuator can affect the sound.


----------



## lojay

purk said:


> Could be but I can't say for 100%.  It really depends on the parts used as well as voicing.  Heck I used to have three KGSSHVs at one point in time and they don't sound the same.  Even a different attenuator can affect the sound.


 
 Do you think that different DIY T2's are likely to sound different?


----------



## joseph69

nemomec said:


> I had also last year the PWDII Dac here in my electrostatic setup. The PS Audio sounds to bright with all my E-Stats, especially SR-009 with a very technical unatural sound signature. The SR-009 is in my experience a extrem transparent headphone without own signature and the performance scales and depends on your source setup (amp, dac, etc.).


 
 So which DAC do/did you use with the 009 that wasn't bright in your opinion?
 Thanks.


----------



## nemomec

joseph69 said:


> nemomec said:
> 
> 
> > I had also last year the PWDII Dac here in my electrostatic setup. The PS Audio sounds to bright with all my E-Stats, especially SR-009 with a very technical unatural sound signature. The SR-009 is in my experience a extrem transparent headphone without own signature and the performance scales and depends on your source setup (amp, dac, etc.).
> ...


 

 There are different good ones like the Audio-GD Devices with PCM1704 chip like Master 7or NFB 10.32. For best results i use now after the very good Audiobyte Black Dragon DAC, the outstanding Rockna Wavedream II Dac.


----------



## joseph69

nemomec said:


> There are different good ones like the Audio-GD Devices with PCM1704 chip like Master 7or NFB 10.32. For best results i use now after the very good Audiobyte Black Dragon DAC, the outstanding Rockna Wavedream II Dac.


 
 Thanks for the suggestions, I'll have to wait and hear how the PWDll/BHSE sound together with the 009 before anything. The Audio GD-7/NFB 10.32/Black Dragon would be more within my price range then the Wavedream ll DAC.


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions, I'll have to wait and hear how the PWDll/BHSE sound together with the 009 before anything. The Audio GD-7/NFB 10.32/Black Dragon would be more within my price range then the Wavedream ll DAC.


 

 I would recommend an Audio Note Kit DAC 4.1. It is easy to build (all included) and is a great non oversampling DAC with tubed output and tube regulated power supply. Smooth as silk and very realistic.


----------



## comzee

Regarding Audio-GD stuff, and the DAC 4.1, I wouldn't recommend either.
 I own a Master 7, it's fantastic, and has a darker signature (as far as DACs go).
 The DAC 4.1 is fantastic too. 
  
 Although, I would highly recommend the Yggdrasil. It is a magical device, far outpacing the M7 and (from what I've read) the DAC 4.1 (and the DAC 4.1 is almost 1k more + you have to assemble yourself).
  
 I've even read reviews from people comparing the Ygg to Analog DAC (by MSB). Ygg seems to be better there too.
 I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Ygg is the best DAC is the world right now. The things it does for my 009 is really unreal every time I turn it on.
 (don't get caught up in, it costs more, it must be better, MSB flagship is 100k, and I've seen comparisons between that and the Ygg too, same level if not Ygg is better). 
  
 my 2 cents.


----------



## joseph69

> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > I would recommend an Audio Note Kit DAC 4.1. It is easy to build (all included) and is a great non oversampling DAC with tubed output and tube regulated power supply. Smooth as silk and very realistic.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the suggestions, but as I said, I need to hear the PWDll with the BHSE first.
 I find theta the PWDll is a very nice DAC…the best *I've* ever heard (with my current set up). Also the seller of my PWDll mentioned that there is slightly more bass with the Yggy which he purchased after I bought his PWDll. He also mentioned he may otherwise not have even purchased the Yggy because it is very close in sound to the PWDll. Everybody hears differently. I'm in no rush at all to buy another DAC until I hear my combo. And I know very well that more money doesn't mean that something is better. I'll just have to wait and hear for myself, but I do appreciate the suggestions for the future incase I need them.


----------



## astrostar59

comzee said:


> Regarding Audio-GD stuff, and the DAC 4.1, I wouldn't recommend either.
> I own a Master 7, it's fantastic, and has a darker signature (as far as DACs go).
> The DAC 4.1 is fantastic too.
> 
> ...


 

 You owned the Audio Note 4.1 or heard it?


----------



## purk

lojay said:


> Do you think that different DIY T2's are likely to sound different?


 
 More of less to a minor degree I believe.  I only have one T2 and can't afford another


----------



## lojay

purk said:


> More of less to a minor degree I believe.  I only have one T2 and can't afford another


Fair enough  I just wonder why different builds of KGSSHVs sound so different. The headinclouds build I had was hardly bright, but it seems from what I read that other models are much brighter.


----------



## Rhamnetin

lojay said:


> Fair enough
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 There are so many variations of KGSSHVs (not even counting the Carbons) with different parts.  People like to fine tune theirs a certain way.


----------



## DougD

rhamnetin said:


> There are so many variations of KGSSHVs (not even counting the Carbons) with different parts.  People like to fine tune theirs a certain way.


 
  
 Do we think (or know) if in general people build them with different parts with the deliberate intent of shaping the sound, or do they more often make some part choices and discover after-the-fact that the net result is a somewhat different sound ? (compared to some hypothetical reference KGSSHV build)


----------



## Rhamnetin

dougd said:


> Do we think (or know) if in general people build them with different parts with the deliberate intent of shaping the sound, or do they more often make some part choices and discover after-the-fact that the net result is a somewhat different sound ? (compared to some hypothetical reference KGSSHV build)


 
  
 I'd say experienced builders like headinclouds and Birgir and others are usually deliberately shaping the sound.


----------



## mulveling

lojay said:


> Fair enough
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Definitely true that there's a lot of variables in the KGSShv builds, and therefore sound. It evolved/changed over a few years too:
  

Power Supply: Full or minified
Transistors: IXYS, Sanyo
Voltage Rails: 400V/450V/500V
Bias current (5mA to 14mA+)
On-board vs. off-board heatsink version
DC Servo vs. no servo
Passive Parts (e.g. attenuator: Alpha pot vs. DACT/Goldpoint vs. RK50)
  
 So, lots of variables over lots of builders. Hearing various head-to-head match-ups between 5 different KGSShv builds, over time, is pretty striking. They do sound different.
  
 Amp selection here is a much bigger determinant of overall tonal balance than the DAC. Headphone selection being first of course. So try to hear a 007 and/or 009 before you buy. Or take a shot at one with the idea that you can resell if it doesn't work out (let's be honest -- if you made it here, you're dedicated enough to do this much at least). To be honest, I love the 009 so much that I still like it a lot even out of a too-bright amp/DAC -- it's just that the 009 is much better with an ideal match. Haven't heard a modern 007, but from what I've read I'd almost certainly prefer it over my Mk I. I prefer my L700 over the 007 Mk I, even though the latter is better at detail and soundstage (I don't give my 007 much love anymore) -- the L700 is pretty much dead neutral to my ears; great balance and musical.
  
 I've heard three 009's (spanning at least a few years of makes) and two 007 Mk I's at the same time (between Purk and myself); unit/vintage variability is very small -- the oldest 009 happens to be the warmest, actually. The channel balance is always perfect. My impression is that Stax is extremely consistent -- especially versus other non-Sennheiser manufacturers.
  
 Here's a rundown of my thoughts on various amps:

KGSShv Carbon (17mA bias, Goldpoint): Very close to neutral; slightly laid-back in the upper mids and treble, which pairs well with the 009 and Yggdrasil. Absolutely huge soundstage; amazing imaging. 
KGSShv onboard IXYS 500V full size (5mA, Goldpoint, old version KGSShv): Close to neutral but ever so slightly forward in the upper mids/lower treble -- and this adds to the same slight accentuations from the 009/Yggy, but the combo still sounds so, so good (though it will be too hot for some). Surprisingly beautiful mids and dynamics; best of the non-Carbon KGSShv. Maybe even a tad sweeter mids versus the Carbon..maybe. Very good amp for the 007 Mk I as it adds some needed zip there. Bigger soundstage and dynamics, and more detail than any other non-Carbon KGSShv (Carbon wins on these points).
KGSShv off-board 450V Sanyo full-size (11mA bias, Alpha pot): Surprisingly warm and lush. Not as detailed as the IXYS KGSShv or Carbon, but maybe some of that is the Alpha pot vs. Goldpoints. Still very detailed and dynamic, with great bass impact and soundstage (kills the KGST in these areas). This will be the perfect 009 pairing for those who find the latter slightly too bright/strident; it reins in the top-end more than any of these other amps (stereotype of tube amps being the warmest does not hold here). Not an ideal match for the 007 Mk I; things get a bit wooly there.
KGSShv mini (400V, Alpha pot, smallest chassis): Less dynamic sounding than the full-size units, and with slightly more mechanical mids. Can also be bright (similar in overall tonal balance to a BHSE, but slightly more fatiguing), but those units will pair nicely with a 007 Mk I. Still very good amps, but opt for the full-size units unless you get a great deal or live in a phone booth.
KGSShv mini prototype (400V, 11-14mA?, Alpha pot, larger chassis): Less bright than the smaller/newer mini, but also less detailed. Similar issues with midrange and dynamics (maybe even more so on the latter point). Still a good sounding amp, and provided a lot of enjoyment as my first Stax system w/ 009.
KGST (350V, RCA tubes, Alpha pot): A lot less soundstage than the KGSShv and better amps -- less bass impact and detail too. But this amp has very liquid/organic tube mids that the SS amps can't replicate. I like this amp a lot with the L700 for some reason (itself a soundstage restricted headphone with gorgeous mids). It's also a very good pairing with the 009.
BHSE (Amperex/Holland EL34 XF4/XF5, RK50 pot); pulling from long memory on this one): More detailed than even the Carbon, but a bit brighter too. Gorgeous tube mids. Insanely good for the 007 Mk I -- this is the asterick on my dislike for that headphone; I REALLY like them when paired with a BHSE. But I still like the 009 better, hah (even if a bit bright in this pairing). I would rate this amp as slightly better overall than my Carbon (but again, from memory).
DIY T2 (vintage British/Mullard EL34, long memory here too): Perfect. Better than the best aspects of all the above amps combined, and then some.
Un-modded Stax 727: No comparison to any of the above amps. After listening to the better amps, all the magic of Stax headphone seems to disappear as soon as this amp is hooked up. Very muddled and confused sound. This may still have been a good experience w/009 had I listened to it before exposure to the above amps, but now I'll never know 
  
 These days I still get excited to listen to the Carbon or IXYS KGSShv -- and obviously the BHSE, DIY T2 if I had daily access to those -- and sometimes even the little KGST for its mids. Those amps still project a thrilling level of high-fidelity and musicality.


----------



## lojay

mulveling said:


> Definitely true that there's a lot of variables in the KGSShv builds, and therefore sound. It evolved/changed over a few years too:
> 
> ...So, lots of variables over lots of builders. Hearing various head-to-head match-ups between 5 different KGSShv builds, over time, is pretty striking. They do sound different.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It can't get more informative than this. I have had the KGSSHV off-board 450V Sanyo built by Headinclouds. I can confirm that it is warm and lush, with little stridence or brightness when paired with the SR009. In fact I confirm it is slightly less bright than the DIYT2 (with metal base EL34 from Holland), but it does sound a bit woolly with the SR009 when compared to the T2 - there was a loss of resolution across the board and it lacked the airiness and openness that the SR009 is renowned for. In fact I sold it because I thought the HD800 setup I had resolved so much better in comparison.
  
 Compared to my old KGSSHV the T2 has a much wider soundstage, holographic imaging, better extension in highs and bass, perfectly tuned and intimate sounding midrange, the best micro-detail and possibly macro-detail (save as against the HD800 on a top end amp) I have heard _on any amp, _tighter and better defined bass... I could go on. Most importantly, it does the trick of completely getting out of the way when paired with an excellent live recording. 
  
 The only downside to the T2 is that poorly mastered recordings will sound "wrong", though I do not think the SR009 when paired with the T2 is _anywhere near_ how picky the HD800 is with recordings. Bad recordings sound wrong but are still enjoyable on the T2, as the treble is oh-so smooth and delicate, but you know the recording sounds "off" once you play a good recording that sounds right. Another point to note that it does have less bass bloat and quantity compared to the KGSSHV but that's what you expect from tubes. Still the bass goes deeper, is more tuneful and has more precise impact.


----------



## Tebe

Thanks for amp comparison  what do you guys think about nekoaudio dac for 009/bhse?


----------



## Pokemonn

Thank you mulvering! very very informative and helpful for us!
 I found that I need to start building DIY T2 with best parts + Alps RK50.
 since my home is not far from electric parts town Akihabara.


----------



## purk

pokemonn said:


> Thank you mulvering! very very informative and helpful for us!
> I found that I need to start building DIY T2 with best parts + Alps RK50.
> since my home is not far from electric parts town Akihabara.




I strongly suggest you to read up the t2 on the other site before begin the part sourcing process. Using exotics resistors could cause problems with added noise so stick with what recommended resistor.


----------



## Rotijon

pokemonn said:


> Thank you mulvering! very very informative and helpful for us!
> I found that I need to start building DIY T2 with best parts + Alps RK50.
> since my home is not far from electric parts town Akihabara.


 
 Any chance you are willing to make 2 of em? =)


----------



## paradoxper

rhamnetin said:


> I'd say experienced builders like headinclouds and Birgir and others are usually deliberately shaping the sound.


 
 I'd say no. And this comes down to preference, hearing,etc. I don't believe KG finds much difference between IXY parts and Sanyo. I know Birgir has said
 he finds no difference between Alpha vs Alps RK50. I'd say those are some of the main things in the design choices.
  
 But just because Birgir, Kevin, Geoff or whomever else feels one way about a part of the build, doesn't mean we all agree or hear things the same.


----------



## kevin gilmore

its a bit more complicated than that, even if the sound is very similar.
  
 the ixys parts drift with temperature, the 2sa1968 does not. So for the ixys part the servo needed to be a little more aggressive.
  
 and the big difference between the alpha and the rk50 is the accuracy of tracking of the elements.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

purk said:


> I strongly suggest you to read up the t2 on the other site before begin the part sourcing process. Using exotics resistors could cause problems with added noise so stick with what recommended resistor.


 
 I'm salivating on georgep DIY T2 chassis on sale forum.  But affraid couldn't get all the transistors to build it.  Wonder if Dr. Gilmore and the Stax crew will come up with an updated T2 using in-production transistors.


----------



## paradoxper

There are modern updates.


----------



## kevin gilmore

Kerry has a new board with mostly current production parts, lots of surface mount.
 That board won't fit in the standard chassis.


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> I'd say no. And this comes down to preference, hearing,etc. I don't believe KG finds much difference between IXY parts and Sanyo. I know Birgir has said
> he finds no difference between Alpha vs Alps RK50. I'd say those are some of the main things in the design choices.
> 
> But just because Birgir, Kevin, Geoff or whomever else feels one way about a part of the build, doesn't mean we all agree or hear things the same.


 

 I read many posts that say the KGSShv's sound different to the various builds / parts count / Sanyo and IXY. Purk said the Sanyo was probably the warmest KGSShv, and my amp and your is that type. I have no idea if this applies to the T2 build based on KG's design. If there are more than one version around I would guess they will sound different.
  
 But if I was commissioning a T2 I would probably try and stay standard parts or chaos may happen with unexpected results. Many amplifier manufacturers test and test again many part combinations and values to get the sonic signature or accurate and transparent sound they are after. Plus for reliability the recommended parts are a safer bet I would think.


----------



## paradoxper

astrostar59 said:


> I read many posts that say the KGSShv's sound different to the various builds / parts count / Sanyo and IXY. Purk said the Sanyo was probably the warmest KGSShv, and my amp and your is that type. I have no idea if this applies to the T2 build based on KG's design. If there are more than one version around I would guess they will sound different.
> 
> But if I was commissioning a T2 I would probably try and stay standard parts or chaos may happen with unexpected results. Many amplifier manufacturers test and test again many part combinations and values to get the sonic signature or accurate and transparent sound they are after. Plus for reliability the recommended parts are a safer bet I would think.My po


 
 There is a recommended part list for the HV. Most stick to it, some play. That is really on the resistor side of things. I see the biggest departure with volume control.
 Bigir uses the Alpha as his standard, I swayed Geoff to use the Acoustic Dimension and some like the DACT.
  
 To me, the full-size vs mini distinction needs to be known more because that's the bigger departure regarding HV variations.
  
 More to the point, Kevin and Birgir develop these designs to a certain standard point. If anything, any other builders deviating from that design path are deliberately coloring the sound.
  
 And it's important as Kevin pointed out to understand why some part choices are made the way they are.
  
 Pots, trannies, PS versions,resistors, current. What influences the sound the most...


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> Definitely true that there's a lot of variables in the KGSShv builds, and therefore sound. It evolved/changed over a few years too:
> 
> 
> Power Supply: Full or minified
> ...


 
 Hi Mulveling
 I have a Sanyo KGSSHv and as you describe it is quite warm and a bit lush, but works well with the 009 IMO. How much brighter is your Carbon than that KGSShv version would you estimate? I can live with a bit more brightness but not too much. What I am after mainly with my KGSShv v a Carbon is more soundstage width like the BHSE has. Treble and bass are ok otherwise. I don't notice bass flab or any softening. Maybe the Carbon is faster and has more bass texture? I would be worried if the bass output dropped off much, this aspect of my KGSShv and 009s is where I am finally really excited in Stats after years of 'distant and weak' bass in Lambdas. My 007s have good bass output but are a bit loose and slow / lazy to be called a reference phone. Any insight would be very useful.


----------



## purk

astrostar59 said:


> Hi Mulveling
> I have a Sanyo KGSSHv and as you describe it is quite warm and a bit lush, but works well with the 009 IMO. How much brighter is your Carbon than that KGSShv version would you estimate? I can live with a bit more brightness but not too much. What I am after mainly with my KGSShv v a Carbon is more soundstage width like the BHSE has. Treble and bass are ok otherwise. I don't notice bass flab or any softening. Maybe the Carbon is faster and has more bass texture? I would be worried if the bass output dropped off much, this aspect of my KGSShv and 009s is where I am finally really excited in Stats after years of 'distant and weak' bass in Lambdas. My 007s have good bass output but are a bit loose and slow / lazy to be called a reference phone. Any insight would be very useful.


 
 I personally don't think that the Carbon is a bright sounding amp.  It is more neutral than the 450V/500V/Mini in fact.  Going from your KGSSHV to the Carbon will likely yield a considerably wider soundstage (wider than the BHSE or even the T2), better depth, and a more resolving ability with better layering.  Bass may has less bloom than what you are used to but it is extremely tight and fast.  That was my take but I no longer own the regular KGSSHV any more.  Mulveling should be able to address that question better than I can.  Our Carbons are identical beside the volume control used however.  Personally, I find the KGSSHV Carbon quite impressive sound wise hence I sold off my last KGSSHV 500V to another friend.


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> Hi Mulveling
> I have a Sanyo KGSSHv and as you describe it is quite warm and a bit lush, but works well with the 009 IMO. How much brighter is your Carbon than that KGSShv version would you estimate? I can live with a bit more brightness but not too much. What I am after mainly with my KGSShv v a Carbon is more soundstage width like the BHSE has. Treble and bass are ok otherwise. I don't notice bass flab or any softening. Maybe the Carbon is faster and has more bass texture? I would be worried if the bass output dropped off much, this aspect of my KGSShv and 009s is where I am finally really excited in Stats after years of 'distant and weak' bass in Lambdas. My 007s have good bass output but are a bit loose and slow / lazy to be called a reference phone. Any insight would be very useful.


 
 Firstly, my Carbon is 17mA, and since you seem very interested in Carbons it might be wise to ask builders who have tweaked that setting about its effect on the sound.
  
 I think it's extremely unlikely that you'd be displeased in moving from your 009/450V to a Carbon like the one I have. Especially since you report your DAC to be warm. It should be a perfect pairing, and you'll gain a notable bump up in resolution and soundstage. Again, the Carbon I have is slightly laid back if anything. Just not as warm and thick as the 450V/Sanyo. Nobody can give you a guarantee over the internet, but I think you'd be happy with a Carbon.
  
 It seems like you fear brightness. Does this come from your own experience with the 009 on other gear, or from reading opinions of those who dislike the 009?
  
 Hah, I feel the same way about the 007 Mk Is...but especially when paired with the 450V/Sanyo. Also the L700 are truly excellent Lambdas; certainly not suffering from the bass ailments you describe. They also pair extremely well with the Carbon (though they can't fully take advantage of the Carbon's great soundstage).


----------



## purk

paradoxper said:


> There is a recommended part list for the HV. Most stick to it, some play. That is really on the resistor side of things. I see the biggest departure with volume control.
> Bigir uses the Alpha as his standard, I swayed Geoff to use the Acoustic Dimension and some like the DACT.
> 
> To me, the full-size vs mini distinction needs to be known more because that's the bigger departure regarding HV variations.
> ...


 
 The crazy thing is we (Mulveling and I) share the same reference point right down to the source.  His amps used to be mine except the Carbon including Rrs9200m's prototype Mjolnir Mini KGSSHV.  And I can confirm that each KGSSHV do indeed sound different from one to another including the prototype Mjolnir Mini (RGS9200m) and current Mini.  They are all excellent sounding amplifiers in my opinion and I'm pretty much in agreement with his earlier post outlining the sound of each amp.  Mike has continued to turn down my invitation to do a BHSE vs. KGSSHV Carbon comparison/shoot out, so I figure he has a much better things to do.


----------



## paradoxper

purk said:


> The crazy thing is we (Mulveling and I) share the same reference point right down to the source.  His amps used to be mine except the Carbon including Rrs9200m's prototype Mjolnir Mini KGSSHV.  And I can confirm that each KGSSHV do indeed sound different from one to another including the prototype Mjolnir Mini (RGS9200m) and current Mini.  They are all excellent sounding amplifiers in my opinion and I'm pretty much in agreement with his earlier post outlining the sound of each amp.  Mike has continued to turn down my invitation to do a BHSE vs. KGSSHV Carbon comparison/shoot out, so I figure he has a much better things to do.


 
 It's definitely an interesting topic of discussion.
  
 Ha. I am shocked he hasn't come up with that excuse just to steal some time with your T2.


----------



## martin778

I just bought myself the SR-4170 signature package with SR-407's and SRM-006tS.
 Totally different story than the budget models with srm-xh!
  
 I wonder what's the difference between the old 006T and TII? The tS looks more like a scaled down 007T on the outside.
 Also, are the RCA 'cleartop' tubes a worthwile upgrade over the tubes supplied by Stax?


----------



## astrostar59

purk said:


> The crazy thing is we (Mulveling and I) share the same reference point right down to the source.  His amps used to be mine except the Carbon including Rrs9200m's prototype Mjolnir Mini KGSSHV.  And I can confirm that each KGSSHV do indeed sound different from one to another including the prototype Mjolnir Mini (RGS9200m) and current Mini.  They are all excellent sounding amplifiers in my opinion and I'm pretty much in agreement with his earlier post outlining the sound of each amp.  Mike has continued to turn down my invitation to do a BHSE vs. KGSSHV Carbon comparison/shoot out, so I figure he has a much better things to do.


 
  


mulveling said:


> Firstly, my Carbon is 17mA, and since you seem very interested in Carbons it might be wise to ask builders who have tweaked that setting about its effect on the sound.
> 
> I think it's extremely unlikely that you'd be displeased in moving from your 009/450V to a Carbon like the one I have. Especially since you report your DAC to be warm. It should be a perfect pairing, and you'll gain a notable bump up in resolution and soundstage. Again, the Carbon I have is slightly laid back if anything. Just not as warm and thick as the 450V/Sanyo. Nobody can give you a guarantee over the internet, but I think you'd be happy with a Carbon.
> 
> ...


 

 Hey, thanks guys. I am coming to a realisation that indeed a Carbon KGSShv could be a step up from my much loved KGSShv Sanyo. The soundstage comments and fast pace has me excited indeed. If the Carbon is a step up, how has this been achieved I wonder? Is it the fact the Fetts can take much more heat and thus more amps, with typically 10 amps on an off-board KGSShv bumped up to 17 amps or even 20 amps with the Carbon. I believe the BHSE is 20 amps. Also I note the KGSShv has 8 Fetts per side, and the Carbon only 4 on the heatsinks or is it 6 with the 2 vertically mounted. And do these have higher gain with less parts thus less 'loss'? I have no idea, no doubt should be asking Kevin G. I also note the Carbon iOS typically 400V and my KGSShv is 450V.


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> Hey, thanks guys. I am coming to a realisation that indeed a Carbon KGSShv could be a step up from my much loved KGSShv Sanyo. The soundstage comments and fast pace has me excited indeed. If the Carbon is a step up, how has this been achieved I wonder? Is it the fact the Fetts can take much more heat and thus more amps, with typically 10 amps on an off-board KGSShv bumped up to 17 amps or even 20 amps with the Carbon. I believe the BHSE is 20 amps. Also I note the KGSShv has 8 Fetts per side, and the Carbon only 4 on the heatsinks or is it 6 with the 2 vertically mounted. And do these have higher gain with less parts thus less 'loss'? I have no idea, no doubt should be asking Kevin G. I also note the Carbon iOS typically 400V and my KGSShv is 450V.


 
 I believe my Carbon is 450V (HV Golden Reference PSU). Other versions of the PSU may be 400V. I am definitely not the one to ask the technicalities, and this is oversimplified, but I was under the impression that the Carbon uses new(er) silicon carbide transistors (SiC FETs, with I think the Cree make currently preferred?) -- more linear devices that more closely match the linearity of a good triode than traditional silicon transistors.


----------



## comzee

mulveling said:


> I believe my Carbon is 450V (HV Golden Reference PSU).


 
 I have no idea of this means mine is 500v or not, but my Carbon has 500v capacitors.
 If someone can tell me where to look, I can see what volt my Carbon is for frame of reference.


----------



## mulveling

comzee said:


> I have no idea of this means mine is 500v or not, but my Carbon has 500v capacitors.
> If someone can tell me where to look, I can see what volt my Carbon is for frame of reference.


 
 Probably going to be lower than 500V. I don't think very many Carbons are 500V.


----------



## purk

mulveling said:


> Probably going to be lower than 500V. I don't think very many Carbons are 500V.


 
 I think our units are set at 400V.  According to my builder, "there is very little headroom  on the unregulated side to run at 450V".


----------



## kevin gilmore

The 450V units need to use the 550V capacitors which are a bit more money. mine is a 450v unit.
 The 500V units need to use the older supply with the stacked capacitors which is physically a bit bigger.
  
 If someone finds 600V electrolytics, let me know.


----------



## Pokemonn

MSB's stax amp plan?!
  
https://m.facebook.com/MSBTech/photos/a.241125072621119.65523.161361487264145/1109150979151853/
  

  
 http://www.msbtech.com


----------



## martin778

Nice! SR507?


----------



## astrostar59

pokemonn said:


> MSB's stax amp plan?!
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/MSBTech/photos/a.241125072621119.65523.161361487264145/1109150979151853/
> 
> ...


 
 That's odd, looks like some parts just set on a table, transformer and some caps... If I was listening to that Select DAC I would insist on the 009s for sure.


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

Del


----------



## dharma

Most important living composer Arvo Pärt has at home STAX SR-009 (not sure about amp)
  
 5th year running: Arvo Pärt continues to be the most performed contemporary concert composer, leagues ahead of John Adams and John Williams.
  
 one photo (Pärt monitoring recordings with STAX Lambda) from his music recording session here:
http://www.efis.ee/en/film-categotries/movies/id/17558/photos-and-galleries
  
 by the way... Arvo Pärt worked, after finishing music studies, as audio/recording engineer...


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Arvo is one of my favorites. His choral stuff is really beautiful. Amongst his other beautiful offerings.


----------



## JimL11

Just a comment from the peanut gallery.  There seems to be a fair amount of misunderstanding about the whole notion of "voicing" amps.  As I understand it, neither kevin gilmore or spritzer (birgir) voice their amps. They try to design/build their amps to be as close to wires with gain as possible.  In fact, if you think about it, it doesn't make a lot of sense to "voice" amps, given that an amp designer/builder doesn't have any idea which headphone the end user is going to have, since all headphones sound somewhat different.  When the KGSS was designed, the best Stax headphone was the SR-007, so the KGSS was "designed" to drive that headphone in the sense that it was designed to be the best possible amp with the most drive capability.  That does NOT mean it was designed to complement any perceived defects in that headphone, which is what "voicing" an amp implies, i.e. it was not designed to be a bit bright to "compensate" for the SR007s "darkness."  If some perceive it to be bright, that could be due to a problem in the source, or in the headphone (some perceive the SR009 to be a bit bright), or in the listener's perception of what is neutral, or because no design is perfect and in comparison with another design it could sound brighter.  But that is not the same as saying it was designed ("voiced") to be bright - it wasn't, it was designed to be neutral.
  
 The best an amp designer can do is design an amp to be as neutral as possible, then the end user can choose what source and headphone best fits his or her sonic preferences.


----------



## joseph69

jiml11 said:


> Just a comment from the peanut gallery.  There seems to be a fair amount of misunderstanding about the whole notion of "voicing" amps.  As I understand it, neither kevin gilmore or spritzer (birgir) voice their amps. They try to design/build their amps to be as close to wires with gain as possible.  In fact, if you think about it, it doesn't make a lot of sense to "voice" amps, given that an amp designer/builder doesn't have any idea which headphone the end user is going to have, since all headphones sound somewhat different.  When the KGSS was designed, the best Stax headphone was the SR-007, so the KGSS was "designed" to drive that headphone in the sense that it was designed to be the best possible amp with the most drive capability.  That does NOT mean it was designed to complement any perceived defects in that headphone, which is what "voicing" an amp implies, i.e. it was not designed to be a bit bright to "compensate" for the SR007s "darkness."  If some perceive it to be bright, that could be due to a problem in the source, or in the headphone (some perceive the SR009 to be a bit bright), or in the listener's perception of what is neutral, or because no design is perfect and in comparison with another design it could sound brighter.  But that is not the same as saying it was designed ("voiced") to be bright - it wasn't, it was designed to be neutral.
> 
> The best an amp designer can do is design an amp to be as neutral as possible, *then the end user can choose what source and headphone best fits his or her sonic preferences.*


 
 I would say headphones always, as well as speakers, so you could choose what brand/sound-signature you enjoy the best, then proceed.


----------



## gilency

Jim is right.


----------



## JimL11

To elaborate a bit, I would say the only time that voicing an amp makes sense is for an active speaker, where the amp and speaker are designed as a unit so the amplifier(s) can compensate for any shortcomings of the drivers, contouring frequency response and doing active crossovers..  There have been a number of them over the years: the Powered Advent, the Meridian M1, etc., but most of them have not been great commercial successes, at least in the home hi fi market, as the number of active speaker manufacturers could probably be counted on the fingers of both hands, or maybe just one hand.  I am leaving headphones out of it because AFAIK, nobody has even attempted to design an active amp/headphone system where the headphone can only be used with its dedicated amp (possibly the new Sennheiser stat phone is an exception but AFAIK if you've got the right socket you could run it with a BHSE).
  
 I am not quite advocating the late Peter Walker's position that all properly designed amps running within their limits sound the same, but I would argue that the differences between amps are relatively small, and the differences between samples of the same amp design are at least as likely to be inadvertent (random parts variations) as deliberate.
  
 Now if you want to try "voicing" an amp for your particular source and transducer, it would seem to me that a tube amplifier is the way to go, as tubes of the same type from different manufacturers may sound different and can easily be unplugged and replaced (i.e. tube rolling), whereas with a solid state amp everything is soldered in place so unless you go in for desoldering and soldering in different transistors and resistors you're kind of stuck with what you have.  Personally I'd rather listen to music, but to each his own.


----------



## paradoxper

I'd say semantics. I agree about 'voicing'. I believe the designs are intended to be transparent, however, the 007 surely was optimized with the then KGSS, HV, BH, T2. Likewise, it was planned (at least at some point) to have the Carbon be optimized with the 009. 
  
 I'd rather prefer we substitute the term voicing with gimping so we understand the true context.


----------



## dharma

zolkis said:


> I have spent about 2 hours with the following gear:
> 
> (Energizers)
> Stax SRM-007t II
> ...


 
  
  
 CUSTOM AUDIO 'NEBUCHADNEZZAR' seems to have great sound (mentioned audio-test in Finnish HiFi magazine was made by notoriously critical grand-oldman of Finnish HiFi society). In magazine, it was mentioned, that it is about 1000 euro cheaper than other comparable amps. To whom You suggest to have it (as first or second 'serious' amp, etc..)?


----------



## martin778

Can I install ECC88 / E88CC / 6922 / 6DJ8 in an SRM006tS without risking a meltdown of either the amp or the tubes?
  
 (Personally I don't think so but I just want to be sure).


----------



## zolkis

dharma said:


> CUSTOM AUDIO 'NEBUCHADNEZZAR' seems to have great sound (mentioned audio-test in Finnish HiFi magazine was made by notoriously critical grand-oldman of Finnish HiFi society). In magazine, it was mentioned, that it is about 1000 euro cheaper than other comparable amps. To whom You suggest to have it (as first or second 'serious' amp, etc..)?


 
  
 I'd recommend it over any Stax-labeled amps except the T2, especially at the price, and the number of options one can negotiate directly with Erik (e.g. normal or Pro sockets, balance, volume controls etc). If someone contemplates the 353X, should already definitely consider this one instead. At its price, I think it may give a good run for money to at least some of the KG amps as well, though I have not yet managed to make direct comparisons.
  
 Of course until someone like Tyll and/or a sufficiently large number of educated head-fi users have tested it, this is still unreliable basis of comparison. However, I am sure this is not a budget amp at all: it has high-end sound with a bit of hand-made 'bouquet' on the finish level, but I guess few people would mind that, given the record cheap price for this level of sound quality. And this trend will continue: in about a month or two I will also get another new high-hopes Stax amp from Europe. Good times for Stax lovers.


----------



## dharma

zolkis said:


> I'd recommend it over any Stax-labeled amps except the T2, especially at the price, and the number of options one can negotiate directly with Erik (e.g. normal or Pro sockets, balance, volume controls etc). If someone contemplates the 353X, should already definitely consider this one instead. At its price, I think it may give a good run for money to at least some of the KG amps as well, though I have not yet managed to make direct comparisons.
> 
> Of course until someone like Tyll and/or a sufficiently large number of educated head-fi users have tested it, this is still unreliable basis of comparison. However, I am sure this is not a budget amp at all: it has high-end sound with a bit of hand-made 'bouquet' on the finish level, but I guess few people would mind that, given the record cheap price for this level of sound quality. And this trend will continue: in about a month or two I will also get another new high-hopes Stax amp from Europe. Good times for Stax lovers.


 

 OK thanks... ... From capital of Finland Helsinki to capital of Estonia Tallinn it's about 80 km + 180 km to Tartu (second biggest city in Estonia). Not far for You to go and test some of Your hp's for longer than 2 hours??....


----------



## joseph69

gilency said:


> Jim is right.


 
 No, I wasn't saying Jim was wrong…I was saying I believe you should build your system around your preferred headphone.


----------



## soren_brix

paradoxper said:


> I'd say semantics. I agree about 'voicing'. I believe the designs are intended to be transparent, however, the 007 surely was optimized with the then KGSS, HV, BH, T2. Likewise, it was planned (at least at some point) to have the Carbon be optimized with the 009.
> 
> I'd rather prefer we substitute the term voicing with gimping so we understand the true context.


 
 You really seem to know your stuff.
 Can you please shed some light on how the various amps was "optimized"?


----------



## paradoxper

soren_brix said:


> You really seem to know your stuff.
> Can you please shed some light on how the various amps was "optimized"?


 
 Your sarcasm is poor.
  
 Perhaps KG can provide his thoughts on how he develops his designs. One aspect I'd see as optimized would be voltage requirements or
 looking at the output stages. 
  
 I also find it interesting how Birgir always felt the 009 had faults and in that, the Carbon was posed as a solution. Within that thinking,
 I'm curious about the design choice in regards to 'voicing' the Carbon for the 009, or, er optimizing an amplifier with the 009 in mind.


----------



## JimL11

paradoxper said:


> I'd say semantics. I agree about 'voicing'. I believe the designs are intended to be transparent, however, the 007 surely was optimized with the then KGSS, HV, BH, T2. Likewise, it was planned (at least at some point) to have the Carbon be optimized with the 009.


 
 Um, actually no.  What you're saying is exactly the opposite of what I'm saying.  What I'm saying is that the 007 was NOT optimized for the KGSS, HV, BH or T2.  Those amps were designed to be as powerful and neutral as possible.  They were not designed to be optimal for the 007, they were designed to do the best job of driving any headphone.  Likewise the 007 was not designed to be optimal for the KGSS, HV or BH, all of which came out AFTER the 007.  To say that the 007 was optimized for those amps would be to say that Stax designed a phone to work best with amps that were not even in existence when it was designed, which is clearly ridiculous.  The 007 was designed to be the best phone that Stax could make.  Ditto with the 009, Stax designed it to be the best, but as we know, not everyone agrees that it is, at least tonally.  Likewise the Carbon was NOT designed to be optimized with the 009, it was designed to be the best solid state amp for stat headphones.  It was HOPED that it would work well with the 009 but it was not INTENDED to be optimal for it, except in the sense that the best amp gives any headphone the best chance to show what it can do, both good and bad.  For example, when the 009 first came out, spritzer reported that, in comparison with the KGBH and KGSS,  the best amp he had found for his 009s was the Stax SRA12, which is one of Stax's early solid state designs, even though as an amp it is not as good as the BH, T2, or even KGSS - a less-than-best amp's "voice" matched best with the "best" Stax headphone.  
  
 The difference, in short, is this.  The notion of voicing is to design an amp to be optimal with a specific transducer.  This is as opposed to designing the best possible (i.e. most powerful and neutral) amplifier, which should do the best job of driving ANY transducer, but may or may not be the best match for any specific transducer.   What I am saying is that KG and spritzer's approach is the latter and NOT the former.  The two approaches are philosophically completely opposite.    Saying that's semantics is like saying that left vs right, up vs down and yes vs no is semantics.
  
 Now, it may be that one amp designer's notion of what is neutral is different from another designer's, so one designer's amps may sound somewhat warmer, and another's more transparent, etc.  But that is different from saying an amp is voiced for a specific headphone or speaker.  And as I said, why would an amp designer limit his "market" by designing an amp for one speaker or headphone?


----------



## JimL11

joseph69 said:


> No, I wasn't saying Jim was wrong…I was saying I believe you should build your system around your preferred headphone.


 
  
 Yeah, I took your comment as agreeing with me.


----------



## paradoxper

jiml11 said:


> Um, actually no.  What you're saying is exactly the opposite of what I'm saying.  What I'm saying is that the 007 was NOT optimized for the KGSS, HV, BH or T2.  Those amps were designed to be as powerful and neutral as possible.  They were not designed to be optimal for the 007, they were designed to do the best job of driving any headphone.  Likewise the 007 was not designed to be optimal for the KGSS, HV or BH, all of which came out AFTER the 007.  To say that the 007 was optimized for those amps would be to say that Stax designed a phone to work best with amps that were not even in existence when it was designed, which is clearly ridiculous.  The 007 was designed to be the best phone that Stax could make.  Ditto with the 009, Stax designed it to be the best, but as we know, not everyone agrees that it is, at least tonally.  Likewise the Carbon was NOT designed to be optimized with the 009, it was designed to be the best solid state amp for stat headphones.  It was HOPED that it would work well with the 009 but it was not INTENDED to be optimal for it, except in the sense that the best amp gives any headphone the best chance to show what it can do, both good and bad.  For example, when the 009 first came out, spritzer reported that, in comparison with the KGBH and KGSS,  the best amp he had found for his 009s was the Stax SRA12, which is one of Stax's early solid state designs, even though as an amp it is not as good as the BH, T2, or even KGSS - a less-than-best amp's "voice" matched best with the "best" Stax headphone.
> 
> The difference, in short, is this.  The notion of voicing is to design an amp to be optimal with a specific transducer.  This is as opposed to designing the best possible (i.e. most powerful and neutral) amplifier, which should do the best job of driving ANY transducer, but may or may not be the best match for any specific transducer.   What I am saying is that KG and spritzer's approach is the latter and NOT the former.  The two approaches are philosophically completely opposite.    Saying that's semantics is like saying that left vs right, up vs down and yes vs no is semantics.
> 
> Now, it may be that one amp designer's notion of what is neutral is different from another designer's, so one designer's amps may sound somewhat warmer, and another's more transparent, etc.  But that is different from saying an amp is voiced for a specific headphone or speaker.  And as I said, why would an amp designer limit his "market" by designing an amp for one speaker or headphone?


 
  
 I have to think the flagships got a little special consideration. And perhaps I'm wrong in that thinking. Part of this stems from conversations I've had with Birgir. The Carbon may not have ended up being optimized for the 009 or any other headphone, but it was at one time the direction of the design, at least for one.


----------



## soren_brix

paradoxper said:


> Your sarcasm is poor.
> 
> Perhaps KG can provide his thoughts on how he develops his designs. One aspect I'd see as optimized would be voltage requirements or
> looking at the output stages.
> ...


 
 so basically you don't know, but are rather speculating.


----------



## paradoxper

soren_brix said:


> so basically you don't know, but are rather speculating.


 
 Not exactly. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/476891/does-anyone-else-think-the-stax-007-has-a-constricted-soundstage#post_6466437


----------



## mulveling

I don't believe that builders are actively "voicing" their amps to a high degree. That gets too far into the tweaky magic fuses/cables/footers sector of audiophillea for me, and this kind of thinking generally does damage to the hobby -- and it especially doesn't mix with the brand of no-nonsense DIY amp builders in the KG/Stax world. But the different amp designs and implementation configurations discussed here do sound meaningfully different; yes, even the good solid-state designs. And besides the major configuration choices, there are at least a few meaningful things to tweak that are within the builder's control -- e.g. mA bias, PSU size, etc.
  
 But while we're on the topic of opinions/ideas that are hard to justify, it's always bugged me that parts of the Stax mafia were so eager/quick to ratify a "new" 009 version without (to my knowledge) having had multiple 009 units of different vintages on hand at any one time to evaluate. I've had 3 units in one place, and they all sound like the same 009 (I love them all) -- with accommodation for some sonic differences due to pad conditioning.


----------



## comzee

mulveling said:


> But while we're on the topic of opinions/ideas that are hard to justify, it's always bugged me that parts of the Stax mafia were so eager/quick to ratify a "new" 009 version without (to my knowledge) having had multiple 009 units of different vintages on hand at any one time to evaluate. I've had 3 units in one place, and they all sound like the same 009 (I love them all) -- with accommodation for some sonic differences due to pad conditioning.


 
 This concept really popped out at me going to a few meets for the first time.
 For anybody that hasn't gone, I would try and get out to local meetups, they really give you a better understanding of how head-fi works. 
  
 I'm not saying this is necessarily the case within the Stax Mafia, but people love to regurgitate what they read on here as fact.
 In combination with people stating their "first hand" "experience" with products, which is actually them again regurgitating someone else's real first hand experience.
  
 #1 Real world reviewer, which is all ymmv, based on countless factors (physiological/day to day/specific setup chain/ etc... on and on and on.
 #2 Person reads that review, and purports that as their own experience in another thread.
 #3 Real world meet ups with people perpetuating #2's opinion.
 #4 Is there really different ratifications of the 009? We might never know 
  
 It's like the kids game telephone, we all know how that is


----------



## soren_brix

paradoxper said:


> Not exactly.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/476891/does-anyone-else-think-the-stax-007-has-a-constricted-soundstage#post_6466437


 
 designing an amp to be able to deliver enough current has nothing to do with "voicing" an amp


----------



## paradoxper

soren_brix said:


> designing an amp to be able to deliver enough current has nothing to do with "voicing" an amp


 
 I didn't say anything about voicing.


----------



## astrostar59

jiml11 said:


> I am leaving headphones out of it because AFAIK, nobody has even attempted to design an active amp/headphone system where the headphone can only be used with its dedicated amp (possibly the new Sennheiser stat phone is an exception but AFAIK if you've got the right socket you could run it with a BHSE).


 
 No, the new Sennheiser phone has a last amplification stage in the headset frame itself, so it has to be amplified by only that new Senn amp. It lis a shame, as they look nice and it would be great to have another 009 in the market.


----------



## jgazal

Is there an impedance vs. frequency graph for the 009, 007 and lambdas? Does the 007 have higher impedance at higher frequencies?


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

Del


----------



## JimL11

My mistake.  I didn't pay a lot of attention to the new Sennheiser because it is so far out of my price range that I didn't look at the details.


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

Del


----------



## jgazal

labrat said:


> You are stating a lot of "facts" around here, but most , if not all, is just parroting other posts.
> The above quote, which already have been pointed out just earlier, do show that you don't understand the electrostatic headphone principle very much.




This statement seems unfair to me considering:



jiml11 said:


> I just published an electrostatic headphone amplifier design in AudioXpress magazine November and December, 2015 issues. It is based on the classic Stax SRX DIY design from the 1970s, with the additions of cascoded MOSFET current sources and a shunt regulated power supply. The articles include an analysis of the original SRX circuit and a rationale for the use of current sources in electrostatic headphone amplifiers.




On the other hand,



jiml11 said:


> My mistake.  I didn't pay a lot of attention to the new Sennheiser because it is so far out of my price range that I didn't look at the details.




You are a gentleman in the old-fashioned way. Thank you for posting here.


----------



## astrostar59

labrat said:


> We all make mistakes.
> 
> The thing Sennheiser does with it's new electrostatic headphone, is that there is no high voltage in the cable from the driver to the headphones, and by that a reduced loss of energy.
> The cable only transfer low voltage power and signal.
> The high voltage is generated "locally" in each of the "earcases".


 

 It that fact? Are you sure. I can't understand how a low voltage signal can generate a high voltage bias or signal at the phones. As I read it, the phones have a final Fett stage in each frame, but the supporting circuits and current feed and down stream (fed by the amp).


----------



## martin778

Maybe through a small transformer since th current flow is very low?


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

Del


----------



## Ali-Pacha

AFAIK, DC bias is generated by the marble-amp (never heard of the figures, probably not that far from standard 580V), but signal is below 5V, last stage amplification are those mosfets in the cups.
 Main assumptions on the other place are it's a derivative from HEV-70, and we'll never see schematics from Sennheiser since they could pick over them...then make a rough statement about the design, to say the least 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## Sorrodje

@JimL11 : Thanks for your work on the SR-X plus. I just asked a build of one for my own use an I'm super  excited to try it with my HE-60. I wondered if that SR-X plus would be a good match for a 007 as well. I'm not acknowledged enough to estimate that myself so your opinion would be warmly welcomed


----------



## Michael T

comzee said:


> This concept really popped out at me going to a few meets for the first time.
> For anybody that hasn't gone, I would try and get out to local meetups, they really give you a better understanding of how head-fi works.
> 
> I'm not saying this is necessarily the case within the Stax Mafia, but people love to regurgitate what they read on here as fact.
> ...


 

 Couldn't agree more. The amount of crap that is regurgitated is hilarious.
 How many people have their own thoughts on this board? Not many.
 Too much emphasis on gear and not music.


----------



## astrostar59

michael t said:


> Couldn't agree more. The amount of crap that is regurgitated is hilarious.
> How many people have their own thoughts on this board? Not many.
> Too much emphasis on gear and not music.


 

 Naa, don't agree. There are some *VERY* experienced Stax users and DIY Stat amp builders on this forum. And many of the opinions on here major on personal demos or own gear. Some guys here have such a long list of Stax models in stock or previously owned. I come here for that, and at the other place as well. Yeah a few talk up stuff and re-quote. However there are the forum guys here I totally trust like Purk and Paradoxper for example. Newbies can generalise and miss quote, talk stuff up, agree on that. But on the whole the content here is unbeatable. Other forums (any hifi subjects) as much lower quality of posting IMO and get too political and or abusive. I have got bollocked on here a few times, and I seas upset about that. Damb, I post all sorts of articles and my experiences to help others. But I got over it because I like this place a lot.
  
 On music v gear, this is a gear forum to discuss equipment choices that result in more enjoyment of music. If you want to discuss music you need to be on a specialist music forum.


----------



## vapman

No amount of research is worth as much as going to a meet and hearing for yourself! That's why meets are so great and efficient.


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> Naa, don't agree. There are some *VERY* experienced Stax users and DIY Stat amp builders on this forum. And many of the opinions on here major on personal demos or own gear. Some guys here have such a long list of Stax models in stock or previously owned. I come here for that, and at the other place as well. Yeah a few talk up stuff and re-quote. However there are the forum guys here I totally trust like Purk and Paradoxper for example. Newbies can generalise and miss quote, talk stuff up, agree on that. But on the whole the content here is unbeatable. Other forums (any hifi subjects) as much lower quality of posting IMO and get too political and or abusive. I have got bollocked on here a few times, and I seas upset about that. Damb, I post all sorts of articles and my experiences to help others. But I got over it because I like this place a lot.
> 
> On music v gear, this is a gear forum to discuss equipment choices that result in more enjoyment of music. If you want to discuss music you need to be on a specialist music forum.


 
 Ditto. Let's not get into the business of bashing this forum; there's plenty enough of that going on in that other place -- which itself can't seriously be labelled as a headphone enthusiast forum anymore, other than its Stax thread and DIY section. And certainly, this forum is a place primarily for the GEAR aspect of our music reproduction enthusiasm. I tire of seeing this kind of post: "I'm going to claim the moral high ground here, because for me it's ALL ABOUT THE MUSIC".
  


vapman said:


> No amount of research is worth as much as going to a meet and hearing for yourself! That's why meets are so great and efficient.


 
 Meets aren't nearly as good as having the gear in-home. They also tend to develop group-think opinions pretty quickly that carry through the meet. They are however better than just reading reviews and acquiring 2nd hand opinions.


----------



## vapman

I fully agree. I didn't mean to imply they didn't have similar flaws but they beat a written review any day.


----------



## comzee

mulveling said:


> Meets aren't nearly as good as having the gear in-home. They also tend to develop group-think opinions pretty quickly that carry through the meet. They are however better than just reading reviews and acquiring 2nd hand opinions.


 
 That's pretty much it. If I want to critically listen for hyper detail or nuanced differences, I need extraordinarily low DB levels in my listening room. Even a 120mm desktop fan creates too much noise for me. I mean, this isn't the case so much with closed, but all I use is open headphones.
  
 Meets are so noisy, it can definitely give a beginner a good infrastructure of knowledge about the general sound for the different equipment. If you're trying to critically review the difference between similar performance dacs/amps, good luck.
  
 Even at home, I mention the "day to day" differences. I saw someone else here mention it, but I'm not aware of how many people are "in tune" with their own physiological hearing properties.
 Small things like how much caffeine I intake in a day, or how much sleep I got, effect my day-to-day hearing differences.
  
 That means even extremely experiences users with 10+ years of living with Stax day-to-day, can here things or purport differences nobody else can sync up with.
 Now when I saw differences, I mean nuances. Obviously regardless of the above factors, most people could tell the difference between main phones, like 007/009.
 What I'm talking about, is when people say "There are different 009 version, that sound extremely similar, but different), like, ok, yea......


----------



## astrostar59

Personally, I am connected to this hobby by the emotion I feel in listening to the music at such a high level of realism and transparency, I never get the negative vibe.
  
 On another note, I have realised a big jump in sound quality this last week by upgrading my Mac Mini power supply. It cost me about 600 US for a HDPlex and the Uptone Audio MMK board to replace the SMPS inside the Mac Mini. The difference is WOW, seriously good upgrade. It was better than a CDP before, now it is light years in front. The bass energy and smoothness of the treble is just incredible. It makes me think it is coming off a master tape not 44.1 material. Very happy, and for those with a Mac Mini I would look at this upgrade.
  
 Powering a PC music server with pure DC and going fanless can have a similar result.


----------



## gilency

LOL


----------



## Michael T

astrostar59 said:


> There are some *VERY* experienced Stax users and DIY Stat amp builders on this forum. And many of the opinions on here major on personal demos or own gear. Some guys here have such a long list of Stax models in stock or previously owned. I come here for that, and at the other place as well. Yeah a few talk up stuff and re-quote.
> 
> On music v gear, this is a gear forum to discuss equipment choices that result in more enjoyment of music. If you want to discuss music you need to be on a specialist music forum.


 
  
 Agreed, it's the 80/20 rule.


----------



## JimL11

sorrodje said:


> @JimL11 : Thanks for your work on the SR-X plus. I just asked a build of one for my own use an I'm super  excited to try it with my HE-60. I wondered if that SR-X plus would be a good match for a 007 as well. I'm not acknowledged enough to estimate that myself so your opinion would be warmly welcomed


 

 Thanks.  I am using mine to drive my 007s and I think it does a good job, but I haven't compared it to anything else (i.e. BHSE, KGSS, etc.).  Objectively, it has a similar voltage and current capability to the KGSS so it should do OK with the 007.  Some of the people who are participating in the group buy on the other site do have some of these other amps so I am hoping after a few samples are built that they will be able to report their experiences comparing the SRX plus with other amps.


----------



## Sorrodje

@jiml11 : thks. Will check that.


----------



## Spirulina780

If high quality Stax headphones can convey music of quality equivalent of the most expensive hi-fi speakers there is, shouldn't the Dac, cables and other accessories be of very high quality then?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Very skeptic about the cable thing, but the matter is probably the best s(c)hi(i)tstorm-generator in audio world 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Ali


----------



## martin778

Are stax tube amps AC heated?? I was rebiasing mine after installing RCA cleartops and noticed that DC balance swings from -0.8 to +0.5V (measured with a Keithley 199 DMM). Even after 60 mins of warmup - absolutely no way to keep it within 0.2V.
  
 Has anyone tried running a power conditioner on them?
  
 +
 By the way - Cleartops took the grain in the HF from stock 6CG7EH's nicely.


----------



## icebear

ali-pacha said:


> *Very skeptic about the cable thing,* but the matter is probably the best s(c)hi(i)tstorm-generator in audio world
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hmmm, no need to be skeptic about the thing, you need cables, that's for sure.
 And if you pay more than 10% of what the total price of your set up is, then you have been had, pretty simple


----------



## Ali-Pacha

icebear said:


> Hmmm, no need to be skeptic about the thing, you need cables, that's for sure.
> And if you pay more than 10% of what the total price of your set up is, then you have been had, pretty simple


 
 My RCA cables come from mainstream gears bought over the last 30 years, and last time I bought cables, that was those XLR babies : http://www.woodbrass.com/cable-microphone-eagletone-mc20-xlr-xlr-1-5m-p158349.html
 I'm also skeptic about price ratio / balance among components 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ali


----------



## purk

It





ali-pacha said:


> My RCA cables come from mainstream gears bought over the last 30 years, and last time I bought cables, that was those XLR babies : http://www.woodbrass.com/cable-microphone-eagletone-mc20-xlr-xlr-1-5m-p158349.html
> I'm also skeptic about price ratio / balance among components
> 
> 
> Ali


 

It doesn't hurt to try really. If you don't like your new cables, just return them and get your money back. I personally don't own a super expensive cable but I tested out moon audio black dragon and it clearly superior to my mogami gold xlr cable. With electro stats, your system is quite transparent so testing out cables and detecting any improvement should be easy.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I think I'm not hobbyist enough...with my BHSE coming, I'll probably be done. Even if I could go down the tube-rolling rabbit hole.
 Never say never, BTW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## astrostar59

spirulina780 said:


> If high quality Stax headphones can convey music of quality equivalent of the most expensive hi-fi speakers there is, shouldn't the Dac, cables and other accessories be of very high quality then?


 

 I would say yes, to get the best out of them, and to avoid digital fatigue by having a very revealing transducer on the end of a mid-fi system IMO.


----------



## soren_brix

spirulina780 said:


> If high quality Stax headphones can convey music of quality equivalent of the most expensive hi-fi speakers there is, shouldn't the Dac, cables and other accessories be of very high quality then?


 
 if the opposite question doesn't make sense, the answer to your question is probably trivial or of insignificant value ...


----------



## Michgelsen

martin778 said:


> Are stax tube amps AC heated?? I was rebiasing mine after installing RCA cleartops and noticed that DC balance swings from -0.8 to +0.5V (measured with a Keithley 199 DMM). Even after 60 mins of warmup - absolutely no way to keep it within 0.2V.
> 
> Has anyone tried running a power conditioner on them?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't know about AC heating, but a bias within -0.8 to +0.5 is already very very good. You shouldn't even have to worry if it stays within a few volts + or -, because it's on a scale of hundreds of volts.


----------



## gilency

This.
 Invest your money in Headphones, amplifier and DAC in that order.
 Buy well made cables because they last longer not because they sound better.
 Before you believe me or somebody else who disagrees, do some research on it.
 There is a lot of money riding on cables, and unfortunately it has become embedded in the audio psyche like gospel.
  
 Quote: 





ali-pacha said:


> Very skeptic about the cable thing, but the matter is probably the best s(c)hi(i)tstorm-generator in audio world
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## joseph69

Quote:  
*"This.*
*Invest your money in Headphones, amplifier and DAC in that order".*
  
 When I stated this you sort of disagreed with me, no?


----------



## mulveling

I'm definitely down with the headphones, then amp, then DAC priority. Pursuing exotic interconnects is not required (though I do have some). But I do love my tube-rolling, when the amp allows.


----------



## catspaw

ali-pacha said:


> Very skeptic about the cable thing, but the matter is probably the best s(c)hi(i)tstorm-generator in audio world
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Me 2.
 I have been in this game for just a few years and in blind testing I can hear everything except cable differences.


----------



## crazychile

mulveling said:


> I'm definitely down with the headphones, then amp, then DAC priority.


 
  
 With electrostatics this was the order I followed initially to have a very modest (by electrostatic standards) system. However, I've come to realize how important the source is. My next upgrade will be a DAC that I'm hoping to have for a very  long time. Then I'll jump into some better headphones and finally a better amp. I have two systems, dynamic and electrostatic, and the DAC is connected to both. I probably split my time 50/50 between both systems. Since electrostatic system upgrades would be at least $2k and up for me, I'm probably going to focus on my dynamic rig for the next year and then finally jump back into electrostatic upgrades.
  
 Where I am now:
 Schiit Bifrost MB -> Mjolnir ExStata-> Koss ESP-950
 Schiit Bifrost MB -> Schiit Lyr 2 -> Assortment of $150ish cans
  
 Where I want to be:
 Schiit Yggdrasil -> KGxxx -> Stax SR007 or 009
 Schiit Yggdrasil-> Schiit Ragnarok-> Senn HD-800S


----------



## astrostar59

catspaw said:


> Me 2.
> I have been in this game for just a few years and in blind testing I can hear everything except cable differences.


 
 My opinion a few years ago was the same as yours. However over the last 2 years I have upgraded my interconnects to Audio Note Silver and there is a definite improvement in transparency.
  
 I have not found speaker cables to do as much though, as long as there is enough gauge copper in the cables and they are not too long. I actually use mains cable 30 amp x 2 for my speakers, sound great.


----------



## catspaw

astrostar59 said:


> My opinion a few years ago was the same as yours. However over the last 2 years I have upgraded my interconnects to Audio Note Silver and there is a definite improvement in transparency.
> 
> I have not found speaker cables to do as much though, as long as there is enough gauge copper in the cables and they are not too long. I actually use mains cable 30 amp x 2 for my speakers, sound great.


 
 If you do hear the difference in blind testing, then there is a difference.
 My problem is that most people dont realize how placebo and bias works on your brain, and they can be fooled into spending more money.
 I have nothing against people who want to buy expensive cables. I have something to say about those who try to fool customers into it.


----------



## zolkis

> > Originally Posted by *Ali-Pacha*
> >
> >
> > Very skeptic about the cable thing, but the matter is probably the best s(c)hi(i)tstorm-generator in audio world
> ...


 
  
 High ball: you've probably only tried _bad_ cables
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 Joke aside, I think good equipment should be largely insensitive to cables that respect certain impedance matching requirements, have low capacitance, low attenuation[, proper shielding] and have fairly good/homogeneous/consistent quality.
 There are exceptions, though:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/02/google-engineer-finds-usb-type-c-cable-thats-so-bad-it-fried-his-chromebook-pixel/
  
 I fully agree with the KG priority order: headphone, amp, source[, cables].
  
 Nevertheless, in the last 10+ years, only cables have been the same in my systems: a good reason to set the bar and choose once, choose well.
  
 When/if I noticed differences between cables, it was around perceived transparency - the same that Astrostar noted - especially bass transparency and timing/group delay.
  
 I am pretty much against the idea of _compensating_ problems with cables (mix-and-match), and against spending huge amount of money to eliminate 0.1% of the problems - it will be still a fraction of the total length of cables in the system (transformers, internal cabling etc). If one is so serious about cables, use the 'good' ones (whatever 'good' means for you) in _every_ element of the audio chain[, including power lines . Hey, what sounds better, wind or water or nuclear energy? Which atoms are better, the ones originating from closer or farther supernovae?].
 Even then, it's the last mile in quality and won't make your components' _design_ better. That is why I have a deeper respect towards _system_ designers than towards _component_ designers.
  
 I've been laughing my socks off reading some sections of 
The Absolute Sound Buyer's Guide to Cables, Power Products, Accessories, and Music 2015.
 Enjoy .


----------



## Ali-Pacha

The storm is raging...keeping us away for Stax 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Anyway, I've never seen anyone playing with Stax cables, especially trying to reduce the inductance. That difficult ?

 Ali


----------



## 3X0

Edit: nevermind. I don't care enough about this subject anymore to get involved.


----------



## nemomec

I have used over the last years some rca, xlr and usb cables in my system and i heard in my chain small but over a long listening time for me importand differences. The most expensive cables was not the best choice and i ended with middle priced PC-OCC cooper cables, for me the right combination is the goal. I think sources and their interaction/combination is very importand if you have a nearly transparent amp and such a transparent headphone like a SR-009. But on the other side there are some listeners they don´t hear this differences, i think it is a blessing for them or a downside, your choice.


----------



## ardacer

Which would you guys consider more detailed, transparent, and "reference", stax 3030 system or the new 2170? Thx


----------



## axle_69

Maybe it would be interesting to continue another cable discussion on another thread, but for fun here is a link, see the pictures in the middle of the page, it's a speaker cable but it illustrates what is going on with some esoteric cables. http://www.high-endaudio.com/magaz.html
 Interconnects are passive components, they should let the signal pass without attenuating the signal, allowing noise to be added, or filtering the signal. It gets better with increasing price but when reaches 3 figures it is just ...
 I'm happy with my Vovox Sonorus and since amplifiers are inherently balanced (finally some Stax related content) microphone cables in the Pro-Audio market may be a more sensible choice than interconnects in the High-End market. And thinking about it, these are the cables that were used to record the sound we listen.


----------



## ardacer

Ah also forgot to add, which would you consider thechnically superior with better build quality, and which would have less issues with arcing?


----------



## nemomec

ardacer said:


> Which would you guys consider more detailed, transparent, and "reference", stax 3030 system or the new 2170? Thx


 

 Take the SRM-323 amp from the 3030 set and the SR-207 from the 2170 set and you have a good Stax setup. Technical they are nearly the same, the SR-207 has more risk of driver failures (channel imbalance etc.) but sounds maybe a little bit better/smoother than the SR-303. The SRM-323 is technical superior with more headroom to the SRM-252S with his poor power supply.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

crazychile said:


> Where I want to be:
> Schiit Yggdrasil -> *KGxxx* -> Stax SR007 or 009


 
  
  You mean *KG*BHSE? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 four x's...


----------



## crazychile

sko0bydoo said:


> crazychile said:
> 
> 
> > Where I want to be:
> ...


 

 Probably never a BHSE....It's taking me a year just to save for a Yggdrasil DAC. But maybe a KGST, KGSV, KGDT, or possibly even a KGSSHV. but at this rate it would be a few years down the road.


----------



## ardacer

Great guys thx


----------



## dharma

as was writtem in one german blog:

 [google translated] iFi Audio [...]  iCan Pro will be able to drive any headphone (even electrostatics: such as Stax When An additional special external Energiser module is added). Optional Electrostatic Headphone Energiser in separate box will be Introduced, 1,700V peak-peak maximum output, selectable bias for Stax HiFi / Pro, Sennheiser and others, Output Levels selectable, 3 * Stax Pro & HiFi sockets fitted


----------



## martin778

Interesting, I hope it will be able to swing 1700V in decent quality.
  
 I just finished reading through 40+ pages of the 009 channel imbalance thread and I wonder whether Stax already have admit and fixed the error or is buying the 009s still a gamble?


----------



## dharma

martin778 said:


> Interesting, I hope *it will be able to swing 1700V* in decent quality.
> 
> I just finished reading through 40+ pages of the 009 channel imbalance thread and I wonder whether Stax already have admit and fixed the error or is buying the 009s still a gamble?


 
 don't know tech details, overview here
 as far as I know, iFi guys are very helpful and answer to all questions addressed to them


----------



## xrobbo

Hi, received my sr-l700 a couple of days ago and let them burn in for some 30 hours. I find them rather dark and a bit close. I'm using a sr-007tII amplifier.  Is this related to the initial burn in period. Shall I expect some significant change on these two features with use?


----------



## dharma

xrobbo said:


> Hi, received my sr-l700 a couple of days ago and let them burn in for some 30 hours. I find them rather dark and a bit close. I'm using a sr-007tII amplifier.  Is this related to the initial burn in period. Shall I expect some significant change on these two features with use?


 

 some user ideas here too, related to L700 and amps


----------



## DolphinG

Is there anyone who recently bought SRM-727A or SRM-353X?
 I wonder if I can adjust voltage of recent STAX amp.
 I heard that some 727A and 323S are not adjustable, so I wonder if this means that STAX prevents private voltage change of their amp.


----------



## Shiki

Does the SR007 MK2 headpad fit on an MK1? I know that the earpads fit but not sure about the headpad.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

dolphing said:


> Is there anyone who recently bought SRM-727A or SRM-353X?
> I wonder if I can adjust voltage of recent STAX amp.
> I heard that some 727A and 323S are not adjustable, so I wonder if this means that STAX prevents private voltage change of their amp.


 
 You mean, even with internally soldering job ? This kind of thing ( http://www.head-fi.org/t/679447/stax-727-voltage-conversion-100-to-117-help ) would be inoperative right now ?
 The external selector thing began around 15 years ago, I guess, to prevent from grey market. You may even see some SRM-T1 without voltage selector.
  
 Ali


----------



## DolphinG

ali-pacha said:


> You mean, even with internally soldering job ? This kind of thing would be inoperative right now ?
> The external selector thing began around 15 years ago, I guess, to prevent from grey market. You may even see some SRM-T1 without voltage selector.
> 
> Ali


 
  
 The link you gave me is leading back to this thread.
 But I know what you're saying by 'internally soldering job' and yes, I'm saying that that kind of thing (rewiring to other voltage) is inoperative.
 I heard it from my friend who usually repairs STAX gears that some newer SRM-727A and SRM-323S cannot be modified to other voltage. (in this case, 100V to 220V)
 He said that he was not able to rewire it to other voltage as internal cables were different from older STAX amps.
 I cannot understand accurately what he said as I didn't do the job by myself, but he said that the colored cables that must be rewired for voltage change were not available.
 It's said that not all amps are like that but some amp that are produced recently have that kind of problem.
 I wonder if there is other people who experienced this kind of problem (unable to change voltage by rewiring STAX amp) and if this also shows in SRM-353X as I think that STAX amps use common internal transformers.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I've edited the link, it doesn't work with embedded link, and I don't understand why... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## martin778

I've been doing some research on the 007 (probably my next step from the 407's, it will be either 007 or L700) but I still don't see how many versions of the 007 there are, for now I've seen;
  
 - 007 Omega II - champagne color
 - 007 Omega II Mk2 - Black with gold/champagne covers
 - 007A - Silver earcups / covers
  
 I know that some prefer ther first 007mk1's and others the 007mk2 but what about the 007A?
 Are they the same as MK2 internally but meant for JDM?


----------



## Tinkerer

martin778 said:


> I've been doing some research on the 007 (probably my next step from the 407's, it will be either 007 or L700) but I still don't see how many versions of the 007 there are, for now I've seen;
> 
> - 007 Omega II - champagne color
> - 007 Omega II Mk2 - Black with gold/champagne covers
> ...


 
  
 Yeah. The SR-007A is to the Mk II as the SR-007BL was to the Mk I.


----------



## martin778

Thanks for the lightning fast reply  All clear now!


----------



## edstrelow

A word to anyone who wants to get into a good Stax set-up cheaply. richard 51 pointed out in the mechanical damping thread that the 45 year old, low bias SR5 sounds amazingly good after you slide 10 small pieces of  self- stick sorbothane under the earpad. I can confirm this, it is a beautiful sounding phone and actually better sounding from its SRD6 transformer than from a SRM1mk2 amp.
  
 Even though I have been pushing the use of sorbothane to mechanically dampen earcups, I would not have guessed that a low bias phone could sound this good and I was ignoring my old set until richard51 pointed this out. I am running mine from a Sherwood 100 w/ channel  receiver that I paid less than $200.00 for. I see a couple of SR5's on ebay for $150-175.00 right now.  I don't think much of them undamped, but with this simple and reversible mod you can into this business for what in Stax terms is next to nothing.


----------



## astrostar59

martin778 said:


> Thanks for the lightning fast reply  All clear now!


 

 The current 007A Japanese issue jus superb, very close to the (now very old) 007 MK1. The Black 007 MK2-2.5s is not so hot IMO. I would buy a new 007A from a dealer or get a Japanese issue 007A from Price Japan.


----------



## Pokemonn

Does anyone try/use AC noise isolation transformer for your stax rig?
 Does it affect sound quality IYO?
 I tried over 20 ferrite clamps for my stax AC power lines. wow it remove hardness and sound so smooth...
  
 Thank you


----------



## astrostar59

Quote:


pokemonn said:


> Does anyone try/use AC noise isolation transformer for your stax rig?
> Does it affect sound quality IYO?
> I tried over 20 ferrite clamps for my stax AC power lines. wow it remove hardness and sound so smooth...
> 
> Thank you


 

  
 Photo shows my P10 plus the smaller Linear power supply just powering my Mac Mini and external Clock.

 Hi Pokemonn
 I have never tried ferrite clamps? I think are are sometimes used on power leads coming out of wall wart supplies.
  
  
 I do however use a PS Audio P10 Mains Regenerator which may be the same thing you are talking about (AC noise isolation transformer)
 It is a big transformer that takes my 230V -258V AC 50Hz and regenerates it back out as clean 230V AC Multi Wave 50hz. I get a big increase in sound quality from this unit. Mt mains is quite noisy, it reads 2.5% at least distortion and can be 230V up to 258V depending on the time of day and demand (other houses). I get 230V bang on output and 0.1% distortion now.
  
 So YES a mains regenerator can make a BIG difference. I put all my system through it, my DAC, Mac MINI and power supply, KGSSHv and my (Speaker amp) Plinius Power Amplifier, so everything gets an upgrade. It is not cheap but is worth it IMO. I would say passive filters, distribution boxes and other gizmos don't do so much. To get rid of the AC noise you need to regenerate from scratch.


----------



## Pokemonn

Hello astrostar59! Thank you very much for your reply and advice!
  
 Wow your regeneratar is so cool!  OK I will try Power Plant 3(smaller version), I can afford it for my stax rig. fortunatly those products are sold in Japan too. Thanks god.
  
 Thank you astrostar59, you help me a lot!
  
  
 I will try this one.


----------



## martin778

I'd rather try a regenerator / mains filter meant for laboratories / medical system - they usually don't sell snake oil like some audio companies do.


----------



## Kiats

pokemonn said:


> Does anyone try/use AC noise isolation transformer for your stax rig?
> Does it affect sound quality IYO?
> I tried over 20 ferrite clamps for my stax AC power lines. wow it remove hardness and sound so smooth...
> 
> Thank you




I use the Isotek Aquarius for my rig. For the NAS, external HDD into the Auralic Aries and the switch, I have LPS. The Auralic Aries comes with its own LPS. Not sure if this is what you are asking about.

If so, yes, to my ears.


----------



## astrostar59

pokemonn said:


> Hello astrostar59! Thank you very much for your reply and advice!
> 
> Wow your regeneratar is so cool!  OK I will try Power Plant 3(smaller version), I can afford it for my stax rig. fortunatly those products are sold in Japan too. Thanks god.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes that will work on your amp and DAC. I only got the bigger P10 because my power amp for my speakers is a monster.
  
 To clarify, the P3, P5 and P10 are amplifiers, in that they take the AC and take it back to DC, clean it and then regenerate it out to perfect AC 230V or what ever your voltage is.
  
 Other devices that are not doing that, i.e. passive filters may or may not help, but will never have the impact of regeneration of the mains. In some cases the mid to budget filters can make things worse and throttle the power and actually add problems.
  
 Also look at the plugs and IEC connectors and use hifi fuses. Also run a dedicated ring main back to the consumer unit so you have no fridges of AC on that line. It is hassle, but I did it and it was better for it. Cost peanuts for the 45 amp cable and wall plug. Then all my system powers off the P10. You can set the P3/P5/P10 to reboot after a power cut or not. You can control it over the web or via a remote. You can set the voltage the Sine Wave (Sine or Multiwave). I use Multiwave which sounds better, and has the effect of putting bigger capacitors in your DAC / Amplifiers.
  
 To prove this is not snake oil, I get the best sound at any time of day. Before I got a good sound at 2am but not during the day (quite rough). And the soundstage is wider and the treble smoother. Plus it is more dynamic and the bass is stronger. I can feel the frames on my 009s vibrate more at the same volume as without it, so yes, it is a fact.


----------



## Spirulina780

martin778 said:


> I'd rather try a regenerator / mains filter meant for laboratories / medical system - they usually don't sell snake oil like some audio companies do.


 
 Where do you buy something like that?


----------



## rgs9200m

Shunyata Triton here.


----------



## peterb123

ali-pacha said:


> You mean, even with internally soldering job ? This kind of thing ( http://www.head-fi.org/t/679447/stax-727-voltage-conversion-100-to-117-help ) would be inoperative right now ?
> The external selector thing began around 15 years ago, I guess, to prevent from grey market. You may even see some SRM-T1 without voltage selector.
> 
> Ali


 

 I bought a 353X from Japan recently. The power supply section is similar to the 323 - no switch, meaning fixed to 100V input, and cutted wires on the transformer, so hardly possible to change voltage by soldering.
  
 Peter


----------



## edstrelow

pokemonn said:


> Does anyone try/use AC noise isolation transformer for your stax rig?
> Does it affect sound quality IYO?
> I tried over 20 ferrite clamps for my stax AC power lines. wow it remove hardness and sound so smooth...
> 
> Thank you


 
 I found that the Audioprism and PS Audio plug-in line filters were more effective than ferrite clamps. They are  more expensive at about $30-50 each, and you want 3 or more, but still a lot cheaper than regenerators and the like.


----------



## martin778

spirulina780 said:


> Where do you buy something like that?


 
  
 Mostly second hand stuff websites, estate sales etc.
 I'm not trying to say that PS Audio is selling snake oil, since they don't, I had their DAC's and they were pretty good.
 For me a lot of non-audiophile gear just gives more bang for buck.


----------



## Crashem

astrostar59 said:


> Yes that will work on your amp and DAC. I only got the bigger P10 because my power amp for my speakers is a monster.
> 
> To clarify, the P3, P5 and P10 are amplifiers, in that they take the AC and take it back to DC, clean it and then regenerate it out to perfect AC 230V or what ever your voltage is.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just want to say I agree with Astrostar. The rational behine why the PS Audio Regen products work make sense to me.  We reproduce your power so that it is within tight specs so you can better ignore the stuff up the chain.  I have them for both my headphone setup and HT setup and I recognize it made a difference.  With passive and active power filtering solutions, it is hard for me to judge where real effects end and snake oil begins.  A couple/few caveats:
  
 1) It reproduces your power.  So if your power was clean and consistent before, the PS Audio stuff won't make as much a difference.  Obviously, if your power is inconsistent and dirty, it will make a huge difference.
 2) I believe the current PS Audio line does not do any filtering. As such, if you have noise coming from one piece of equipment, I think it can cause problems.  This may be why a few are reporting better performance with their older models with filtering.
 3) Some have argued that they have heard reduced dynamics from their AMPs.  I haven't personally noticed this effect.  But these same people often will argue AMPs should be plugged directly into wall socket with minimal filtering.


----------



## DolphinG

peterb123 said:


> I bought a 353X from Japan recently. The power supply section is similar to the 323 - no switch, meaning fixed to 100V input, and cutted wires on the transformer, so hardly possible to change voltage by soldering.
> 
> Peter


 
  
 Thanks! That's the information that I was finding.
 I must stop thinking about 353X and keep on using my 727A.


----------



## astrostar59

dolphing said:


> Thanks! That's the information that I was finding.
> I must stop thinking about 353X and keep on using my 727A.


 

 You know Paradoxper is selling his awesome KGSShv. Would blow a Stax amp away for sure. I have the same amp from the same builder.


----------



## Dres

After using my srm717 for years, on a hot humid day when powering down I noticed arcing and minor smoke from near Q34. After powering down for several days I tested it again, the amp seems to be working correctly but powering on or off will reproduce the arcing. A close inspection noticed the fault between the two traces (see the attached picture). Is there are safe way to fix this?


----------



## astrostar59

dres said:


> After using my srm717 for years, on a hot humid day when powering down I noticed arcing and minor smoke from near Q34. After powering down for several days I tested it again, the amp seems to be working correctly but powering on or off will reproduce the arcing. A close inspection noticed the fault between the two traces (see the attached picture). Is there are safe way to fix this?


 
  


dres said:


> After using my srm717 for years, on a hot humid day when powering down I noticed arcing and minor smoke from near Q34. After powering down for several days I tested it again, the amp seems to be working correctly but powering on or off will reproduce the arcing. A close inspection noticed the fault between the two traces (see the attached picture). Is there are safe way to fix this?


 

 Hmm, looks odd. Normally Stax amps are really reliable especially the non tube versions. It looks like a blob of solder has been dropped on the traces and gone black. Can you get a scalpel blade and carefully scrape that debris off? If you can get the resin section between those tracers metal free it should be A OK. Only do this after a good few hours of power down., The caps scan hold lethal charges.  If you are not confident take it to a repair shop. Actually you might be better posting this to Spritzer over at the other forum, he will know more than me. It might be a part failure causing an overload?


----------



## labrat (Apr 1, 2018)

[
Del


----------



## martin778

Agreed, also do not use the amp until you get this fixed. It can only get worse.


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> Photo shows my P10 plus the smaller Linear power supply just powering my Mac Mini and external Clock.
> 
> Hi Pokemonn
> I have never tried ferrite clamps? I think are are sometimes used on power leads coming out of wall wart supplies.
> ...


 
 I wonder if you have compared with/without the conditioner when all equipment has been proper grounded and maybe a common mode filter on each as well?


----------



## soren_brix

labrat said:


> Use a sharp knife and scrape away all black material until you have a clean, green surface.
> Clean with some detergent fluid made for this, or just use alcohol.
> Apply some lacquer to cover up the exposed area.
> You can get proper lacquer from any knowable shop doing this sort of business.
> ...


 
  


dres said:


> After using my srm717 for years, on a hot humid day when powering down I noticed arcing and minor smoke from near Q34. After powering down for several days I tested it again, the amp seems to be working correctly but powering on or off will reproduce the arcing. A close inspection noticed the fault between the two traces (see the attached picture). Is there are safe way to fix this?


 
 To add to the advice from Labrat: the pcb looks pretty dusty ... you might consider cleaning your entire pcb as arcing can be caused by contamination...I use this one from Kontakt Chemie.
 The spray can has a brush attached that work pretty well. Please make sure that the PCB/components are all dry before powering up again.
 Clean isopropanol/isopropyl alcohol will also do the trick.


----------



## walakalulu

Most regenerators are designed for source loads only and will work well with headlamps but not many high current power amps although some offer a bypass for high current gear.


----------



## astrostar59

walakalulu said:


> Most regenerators are designed for source loads only and will work well with headlamps but not many high current power amps although some offer a bypass for high current gear.


 

 It depends on the power rating of the amp and the regenerator max output in amps. Some Krell and similar class A power amps need more than 6 amps. My Plinius Class A power amp needs 700 watts at 230V so that = 3 amps. Remember class A amps are running flat out all the time and are very energy inefficient. Many amplifiers today are actually Class A/B or even class D which is amazingly efficient.
  
 The rest of my gear needs less than 1 amp. I have not had a problem with the regenerator strangling my Power amp. My P10 is 6.25 amps rating.
  
 I would say the BHSE / KGSShv needs less than 1 amp supply, DACs less. In fact my KGSShv off-board 450V draws 65 Watts so only 0.3 amps. As long as you keep around 50% load on the regenerator you should be fine. Beyond the amp rating, your gear is calling for pure clean power, as much as possible. This is what affects the sound I have found to a large degree. 
  
 Power supplies in DAC and amplifiers are complex beast that have a tough job to do, removing mains hash and regulating the supply to the circuits downstream. Pre-amplifiers and DAC are super sensitive to noise and mains hash. This is why IMO DACs designed to ruin on a (well designed) battery system can sound so good.


----------



## edstrelow

astrostar59 said:


> Power supplies in DAC and amplifiers are complex beast that have a tough job to do, removing mains hash and regulating the supply to the circuits downstream. Pre-amplifiers and DAC are super sensitive to noise and mains hash. This is why IMO DACs designed to ruin on a (well designed) battery system can sound so good.


 
  
 So what goes wrong with a DAC when it is fed noisey power?


----------



## karlgerman

The better the internal or external power supplies of the DAC AMP... are, the less important is the power conditioner imo.
 My D-02 has 4 excellent shielded transformer in a heavy Dac housing. Same high level quality i experienced with the HeadAmp BHSE.
  
 With those equipment i tested with and without my Furman_ITReference16Ei power conditioner and heard no difference in sound.
  
 Smaller Dac´s or my KGSS benefit from Furman´s noise filter for example.


----------



## plektret

I have an old SR-404 with a bad cable. I'm thinking of using them again.

I have to following questions:
1) When re-cabling them, what wattage soldering iron should I use?
2) I need new pads. Which compatible Stax pads are the most comfortable and best sounding to use with SR-404?
3) I used to drive them with SRM-006tII. How does SRM-323S compare to SRM-006tII?

/Thanks


----------



## rgs9200m

Long ago (about 15 years) I tried the little PS audio regenerator (the P300 I think) on my Stax 007t amp w/ my SR007 phones and it somehow made the sound extremely bright and punchy and fatiguing and I sent it back.
 I was very surprised on the major change it made in the sound, so unlike the mellow sound of this setup. I thought I would have to listen closely to hear any difference.
 In addition, it made the amp run very hot and the tubes got brighter, not a good thing.
 Ever since then, I avoid regenerators (but of course I have not tried one since then, so take this with a grain of salt).


----------



## Pokemonn

OK my Power Plant P3 arrived my home today.
 I did A/B testing between wall outlet and P3 regenerated out with Stax SRM-717 and Stax SR-009.
 my short first impression is, P3 regenerated putput sound surely darker and smoother than wall outlet. wow
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 since i live in tokyo, I am pretty sure that this kind of units are very effective. coz Tokyo is very polluted lol.
 Thank you guys for advices!


----------



## Tinkerer

plektret said:


> I have an old SR-404 with a bad cable. I'm thinking of using them again.
> 
> I have to following questions:
> 1) When re-cabling them, what wattage soldering iron should I use?
> ...


 

 1)Something not super hot. I used a 25watt on mine and just tried to be quick about it. Worked fine. The main thing is you want to be careful not to linger and overheat things.
 2)Sounds like you want the 507 pads. They're leather and comfy and provide a better seal. I think that's the combo for the old 404 limited edition anyway
 3)Haven't heard so can't say. But in general, the stax tube amps tame some of the top end of the lambdas. So you would probably like what you already have better


----------



## edstrelow

plektret said:


> I have an old SR-404 with a bad cable. I'm thinking of using them again.
> 
> I have to following questions:
> 1) When re-cabling them, what wattage soldering iron should I use?
> ...


 
 I wonder if the seal matters much on them since if I remember correctly these have a port. Have a look at my thread on sorbothane damping. While you have them open you might try some 1/4 inch sorb on the backplate. This improved mine immensely. Undamped phones are frankly going to become obsolete, and that includes Stax. Only Grado and Sennheiser seem to be working on getting rid of the mechanical vibrations in the earcups.
  

  
 h


----------



## paradoxper

Grados sure do sound super awesome.


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> Grados sure do sound super awesome.


 
 Just curious why you would say this, and which Grado are you referring to?


----------



## paradoxper

joseph69 said:


> Just curious why you would say this, and which Grado are you referring to?


 
 Sarcasm in regards to the miracle of sorbothane damping.


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> Sarcasm in regards to the miracle of sorbothane damping.


 
 Was asking because of the "STAX or DEATH" in your signature.


----------



## paradoxper

joseph69 said:


> Was asking because of the "STAX or DEATH" in your signature.


 
 I'll get to changing that. Sorbothane or OBSOLETE.


----------



## edstrelow

joseph69 said:


> Just curious why you would say this, and which Grado are you referring to?


 
 Grado e series.  Sennheisser  has also evidently used damping material in the HD800 headband.
  
 "Grado has now joined Sennheiser in dampening earcup vibrations.  I picked up a catalog from Audio Advisor today and I see a Grado SR80e  ad saying:
  
 " *the SR80e  has...a new polymer to damp resonant distortion in the plastic housing.... The way the SR80e's new driver and plastic housing move air and react to sound vibrations virtually eliminate transient distortions. " *
  
    Looking at their website I see that Grado has introduced a third series of headphones, called the e-series which use a vibration absorbing material.  *"Grado's proprietary SpaceBlack Polycarbonate is engineered to absorb excess energy and reduce secondary impulses, for a clearer tone."*
  
 In the same catalog, Sennheiser HD800 is still touting anti-resonance in its headband as they have for some time:
  
 ".*..while the sandwich-material, anti resonance headband... utilize(s) advanced technology from the aerospace industry."*
  
 I see these as parallel developments to sorbothane damping.   There may be others but it seems to me to be a new development in headphone design.
  
 "


----------



## soren_brix

plektret said:


> I have an old SR-404 with a bad cable. I'm thinking of using them again.
> 
> I have to following questions:
> 1) When re-cabling them, what wattage soldering iron should I use?
> ...


 
  
  


tinkerer said:


> 1)Something not super hot. I used a 25watt on mine and just tried to be quick about it. Worked fine. The main thing is you want to be careful not to linger and overheat things.
> 2)Sounds like you want the 507 pads. They're leather and comfy and provide a better seal. I think that's the combo for the old 404 limited edition anyway
> 3)Haven't heard so can't say. But in general, the stax tube amps tame some of the top end of the lambdas. So you would probably like what you already have better


 
 @*plektret: adding to Tinkerer :*
  

*please note the wires: one has a straight line/dotted line printed to it (left/right channel phase). Take a photo so you wire the new cable correctly.*
*please put a cover over the driver when soldering; you might have a bit of flux or solder jumping around - just a tiny bit hitting the driver might cause damage - a piece of cardboard or stiff paper. The driver is pretty solid and isn't particular fragile, but warm bits hitting the diaphragm is one thing that easily damage those.*


----------



## joseph69

edstrelow said:


> Grado e series.  Sennheisser  has also evidently used damping material in the HD800 headband.
> 
> "Grado has now joined Sennheiser in dampening earcup vibrations.  I picked up a catalog from Audio Advisor today and I see a Grado SR80e  ad saying:
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, I have read this also about the Grados…I just wasn't clear if paradoxper was being sarcastic with his post or not.
 Thank you.


----------



## DolphinG

Is there anyone who knows what this thing is?
 I was searching basic amp on Google and I found this image. (Was not able to get in high resolution)
 Looks like STAX basic amp, but I never saw STAX amp with that RCA connector and some kind of selector on the left side.
 I guess that it's some kind of basic amp someone changed RCA connectors.. etc, but not for sure.


----------



## labrat

dolphing said:


> Is there anyone who knows what this thing is?
> I was searching basic amp on Google and I found this image. (Was not able to get in high resolution)
> Looks like STAX basic amp, but I never saw STAX amp with that RCA connector and some kind of selector on the left side.
> I guess that it's some kind of basic amp someone changed RCA connectors.. etc, but not for sure.
> ...


----------



## nemomec

dolphing said:


> Is there anyone who knows what this thing is?
> I was searching basic amp on Google and I found this image. (Was not able to get in high resolution)
> Looks like STAX basic amp, but I never saw STAX amp with that RCA connector and some kind of selector on the left side.
> I guess that it's some kind of basic amp someone changed RCA connectors.. etc, but not for sure.


 

 Looks like a modified Stax SRM X Pro


----------



## plektret

Thanks for the help.
Now I just need to order the spare parts. I live in Europe so I guess electromod.co.uk is the best choice or maybe Pricejapan can provide Stax spare parts for a lower price.


----------



## astrostar59

pokemonn said:


> OK my Power Plant P3 arrived my home today.
> I did A/B testing between wall outlet and P3 regenerated out with Stax SRM-717 and Stax SR-009.
> my short first impression is, P3 regenerated putput sound surely darker and smoother than wall outlet. wow
> 
> ...


 

 Give it another 4 weeks to burn in, then you will be even more impressed. The dynamics and bass will open up, as will the soundstage.
  
 Glad you like it.


----------



## comzee

astrostar59 said:


> Give it another 4 weeks to burn in, then you will be even more impressed. The dynamics and bass will open up, as will the soundstage.
> 
> Glad you like it.


 
 What do you think about something like this as an alternative to the PWP3?
 I've really wanted to try clean power, but don't want to jump into the 2.5k range right away.


----------



## mulveling

Awww man, power conditioning talk again! Can we please get back to Stax headphones/amps and not-so-subtle Grado bashing again? (I really enjoyed the latter btw) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Also, I have not used a power conditioner in my Stax system, and it's smooth as silk.


----------



## joseph69

mulveling said:


> Awww man, power conditioning talk again! Can we please get back to Stax headphones/amps* and not-so-subtle Grado bashing again?* (I really enjoyed the latter btw)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks.


----------



## paradoxper

joseph69 said:


> Thanks.


 
 Haha. You're a Grado owner. I didn't know, poor soul.


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> Haha. You're a Grado owner. I didn't know, poor soul.


 
 How could you not know?
 Thats all I own besides the 009.
 Poor soul??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I LOVE Grados.


----------



## paradoxper

joseph69 said:


> How could you not know?
> Thats all I own besides the 009.
> Poor soul???
> 
> ...


 
 I just hadn't noticed it in your sig. The 009 tends to put blinders on my selective readings.


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> I just hadn't noticed it in your sig. The 009 tends to put blinders on my selective readings.


 
 I know…STAX or DEATH.


----------



## Pokemonn

mulveling said:


> Awww man, power conditioning talk again! Can we please get back to Stax headphones/amps and not-so-subtle Grado bashing again? (I really enjoyed the latter btw)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I am sorry for bother you! I envy your clean power lines!


----------



## Ali-Pacha

mulveling said:


> Awww man, power conditioning talk again! Can we please get back to Stax headphones/amps and not-so-subtle Grado bashing again? (I really enjoyed the latter btw)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You need to damp your power conditioner with sorbothane for best results.

 Ali


----------



## edstrelow

ali-pacha said:


> You need to damp your power conditioner with sorbothane for best results.
> 
> Ali


 
 Won't hurt!


----------



## ahnafakeef

In need of some quick help here.
  
 My country's voltage and frequency rating is 220V and 50Hz respectively.
  
 STAX SRM-323S: 100V; 50/60Hz
 Schiit Gungnir: 230VAC; (I don't know the frequency)
  
 Will I require voltage transformers for both, or just the SRM-323S?
  
 And will a voltage stabilizer work as well?
  
 Thank you very much. I really appreciate any help that you can provide.


----------



## Pokemonn

ahnafakeef said:


> In need of some quick help here.
> 
> My country's voltage and frequency rating is 220V and 50Hz respectively.
> 
> ...


 
 maybe you need convertor for 323S only IMO.
 I own some Schiit products which desighned run at AC115V (USA), But they run perfectly at Japanese AC100V(lower volt) power line.
 but its just my speculation, I recommend to email/ask Schiit audio directly.


----------



## headinclouds

ahnafakeef said:


> My country's voltage and frequency rating is 220V and 50Hz respectively.


 
 India is nominally 230vac 50Hz and the Sc***t will be fine around that voltage; see -   http://schiit.com/faq/international
  
 You can use a step down transformer 230 to 100 for the Stax,off the top of my head around 100VA would be OK.
  
 Just had another thought, if you are planning on getting any kind of regenerator you could get one which also has a 100v ac output and check if the DAC can also accept 100vac


----------



## ahnafakeef

pokemonn said:


> maybe you need convertor for 323S only IMO.
> I own some Schiit products which desighned run at AC115V (USA), But they run perfectly at Japanese AC100V(lower volt) power line.
> but its just my speculation, I recommend to email/ask Schiit audio directly.


 
  
  


headinclouds said:


> India is nominally 230vac 50Hz and the Sc***t will be fine around that voltage; see -   http://schiit.com/faq/international
> 
> You can use a step down transformer 230 to 100 for the Stax,off the top of my head around 100VA would be OK.
> 
> Just had another thought, if you are planning on getting any kind of regenerator you could get one which also has a 100v ac output and check if the DAC can also accept 100vac


 
 Thanks a lot, Pokemonn and headinclouds. I'll get a step down transformer for just the amp then.
  
 Btw, are the single-ended cables provided with the SRM-323S any good? I ordered a pair from monoprice but they're too short for my setup.
 ---------------------------------------------------
 Which step down transformer would you recommend for a SRM-323S if I were to order from Amazon or a similar website?
  
 The SRM-323S page on PriceJapan recommends the Churi CCW100W, but I don't think it's available on a US/UK site.
  
 I'll be waiting for your recommendation to place the order. Thank you.


----------



## headinclouds

Apologies, Bangladesh is listed as 220v 50Hz.  I don't normally get into these as no need for them.  If you search for them there are loads. eg  this sort of thing:   http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kashimura-TI-1002-step-down-transformer-from-AC-220V-240V-to-AC-100V-/252272320385?hash=item3abc9a1f81:g:G1YAAOSwirZTuXIz
  
 It would be handy if you can get one which plugs straight into your wall socket.   Which type of wall plug do you have. 
 pm me if I can help further.


----------



## Quixote79

I'm new to this forum and needs a bit of advice.
  
 Currently enjoying a Stax 404 using a 006t amp I've had for years and want to upgrade.
 Has been thinking of getting a 009 + 353x has read that the new 353x is superior to any stax amp so far (maybe from pricejapan, any experience with this company?)
  
 The tricky part is that I have been offered a kgsshv and a 007. the 007 is even older than my 404 so I really don't know about that.My old sr80 doesn't really work anymore but of course is much older.
 what upgrade will be the best you think?


----------



## Rhamnetin

quixote79 said:


> I'm new to this forum and needs a bit of advice.
> 
> Currently enjoying a Stax 404 using a 006t amp I've had for years and want to upgrade.
> Has been thinking of getting a 009 + 353x has read that the new 353x is superior to any stax amp so far (maybe from pricejapan, any experience with this company?)
> ...


 
  
 Is the guy offering the KGSSHV and SR-007 reputable?  Assuming it's a good KGSSHV and assuming the SR-007 isn't on the verge of falling apart, I'd go that route.


----------



## Tinkerer

quixote79 said:


> I'm new to this forum and needs a bit of advice.
> 
> Currently enjoying a Stax 404 using a 006t amp I've had for years and want to upgrade.
> Has been thinking of getting a 009 + 353x has read that the new 353x is superior to any stax amp so far (maybe from pricejapan, any experience with this company?)
> ...


 
  
 I've got a 007 and a kgsshv myself so I'm biased but the gilmore amps really are the top of the line as long as they've been built halfway decently. The only thing I'd echo about the other post is when I got my 007 Mk I, I wasn't told it had a spotty cable. A new one will cost you about $150 with shipping. So take that into account as a possible issue. But you probably already knew that as that's been documented very well. Otherwise they last practically forever. But that's typical Stax if it hasn't been abused, just like those fifty year old SR-5's and stuff still trucking along. Worst case, you can get all new headband/cushion/ear pad parts in black for about $400 if the soft parts are rough since it shares them with the Mk II. Though if it's in that shape, you might be happier with less work and just a new 007A from Japan.


----------



## astrostar59

quixote79 said:


> I'm new to this forum and needs a bit of advice.
> 
> Currently enjoying a Stax 404 using a 006t amp I've had for years and want to upgrade.
> Has been thinking of getting a 009 + 353x has read that the new 353x is superior to any stax amp so far (maybe from pricejapan, any experience with this company?)
> ...


 

 Grad that KGSShv quick, and buy new 007A from PJ as that is really good now, as good as the original MK1. There is also a very good KGSShv for sale ion this forum (US voltage) by Paradoxper. I have the same amp and it is fabulous. Forget the Stax amps IMO, you can do much better.


----------



## Quixote79

Thanks for fast respons. I don't really know how comfortable I am when it comes to changing a cable or buying new pads and so. on the other hand it might not be a problem since the seller told me now that the 007 is less than ten years old and seems mint. He also tell that he has been locking some port but that can be removed again. makes me a bit uncomfortable that the headphone has been modified. When you say it is as good as the original is that the omega one you mean then?
 But you all seem against the 009 or is that because the kgsshv is not a good enough amp to those? think I read somewhere that cavelli is superior but I have not heard that one unfortunately.
 is this paraboxer a reputable builder of those amps and does he have a web site? couldn't seem to find any with that name searching.
 thanks again.


----------



## paradoxper

quixote79 said:


> Thanks for fast respons. I don't really know how comfortable I am when it comes to changing a cable or buying new pads and so. on the other hand it might not be a problem since the seller told me now that the 007 is less than ten years old and seems mint. He also tell that he has been locking some port but that can be removed again. makes me a bit uncomfortable that the headphone has been modified. When you say it is as good as the original is that the omega one you mean then?
> But you all seem against the 009 or is that because the kgsshv is not a good enough amp to those? think I read somewhere that cavelli is superior but I have not heard that one unfortunately.
> is this paraboxer a reputable builder of those amps and does he have a web site? couldn't seem to find any with that name searching.
> thanks again.


 
 The 009 is the sure choice with the KGSSHV not the 006t. And I'm paradoxper. I've sent you a message.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Apparently this came with my amp but the guy who brought it for me forgot to deliver it when delivering the amp. 
  
 I don't know the language, so can someone please verify whether this is the correct voltage transformer for a Stax amp? This one is supposed to be by a company named Churi.
  
 Also, if it is the right one, can I plug it into a multiplug and then the amp onto it?
  
 Thank you very much.


----------



## walakalulu

I wear a Lange 1 but only in my dreams unfortunately.


----------



## walakalulu

walakalulu said:


> I wear a Lange 1 but only in my dreams unfortunately.




Sorry, wrong forum


----------



## Quixote79

Fantastic Forum!
 Got a really long pm with many photos from Astrostar59 explaining a lot of things.thanks astrostar59!
 Now I understand that the KGSShv for sale by paraboxer and the ones astrostar59 has are all built by headincluds and that he is a builder with reputation, thanks.
 I also understand from Astrostar59 that the older versions of 007 are way too old and that I be far better off with a 007a from pricejapan. I guess they probably fall apart like my old sr80.
 I might better do some more research when it comes to getting a new amp also.
 It is a bit confusing with this KGSShv and even though they are all built by headincluds they don't look the same inside.
 The one I have at hand the seller write it is onboard and in the classified for paraboxer he writes it is offboard. does it mean anything?
 Also, astrostar59 kindly explained that his kgsshv built by headincluds is even better than the famous BHSE, I must have misunderstood that for the carbon.
 all, very confusing.
 hope I don't ask too many newbie questions, please excuse me then.


----------



## Quixote79

edstrelow said:


> Won't hurt!


 

 I also use power conditioner for my all my gear, how do I apply this sorbothane to the conditioner to make everything even better? can I apply it to the outside only as I am not comfortable loosing my warrenty. thanks.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Okay I've set everything up.
  
PC>Schiit Gungnir>STAX SRM-323S>STAX SR-009
  
Question - is the SR-009 supposed to feel too loose on my head even at its tightest setting?
  
 Never mind. Found out how to tighten it further.


----------



## mulveling

quixote79 said:


> Fantastic Forum!
> Got a really long pm with many photos from Astrostar59 explaining a lot of things.thanks astrostar59!
> Now I understand that the KGSShv for sale by paraboxer and the ones astrostar59 has are all built by headincluds and that he is a builder with reputation, thanks.
> I also understand from Astrostar59 that the older versions of 007 are way too old and that I be far better off with a 007a from pricejapan. I guess they probably fall apart like my old sr80.
> ...


 
 The 007 Mk I's are not way too old. While I do prefer the L700 and 009 over my 007 Mk I, a well-kept old pair of Stax is fine. Purk has a pair of 1980's Lambda Pro that sound great. And they sure as hell don't fall apart like Grados, because they're not built like some 5th grader's first craft project with a hot glue gun.
  
 A headinclouds KGSShv is going to be a seriously great amp -- maybe only head-amp can produce a build quality above that. The KGSShv did go through a few revisions, hence the onboard vs. off-board. Both can sound great. A good KGSShv build can get reasonably close to the Carbon, and even the BHSE, in sound quality.


----------



## Quixote79

mulveling said:


> The 007 Mk I's are not way too old. While I do prefer the L700 and 009 over my 007 Mk I, a well-kept old pair of Stax is fine. Purk has a pair of 1980's Lambda Pro that sound great. And they sure as hell don't fall apart like Grados, because they're not built like some 5th grader's first craft project with a hot glue gun.
> 
> A headinclouds KGSShv is going to be a seriously great amp -- maybe only head-amp can produce a build quality above that. The KGSShv did go through a few revisions, hence the onboard vs. off-board. Both can sound great. A good KGSShv build can get reasonably close to the Carbon, and even the BHSE, in sound quality.


 

 so you recommend either a L700 or a 009 rather than a 007 that being new or old ones?
 but why is some saying that old stax is way too old and others that they are fine??? does it depend on where it has been bought originally?
  
 The best build amps is either from headinclouds or head-amp? if the kgsshv is reasonably close to the carbon end BHSE I might settle for the kgsshv I guess


----------



## David1961

quixote79 said:


> Also, astrostar59 kindly explained that his kgsshv built by headincluds is even better than the famous BHSE.




 Julian has two KGSSHV's both built by headinclouds, but whether they are better than the BHSE is IMO down to personal taste.
I've heard both of Julian's KGSSHV's and they did give the 009's a stronger bass, but to what I recall they also made the 009's sound similar to the LCD-XC I once had, in other words not as open sounding as when driven by the BHSE.

The thing to do though is to try both amps together to know for sure.


----------



## astrostar59

david1961 said:


> Julian has two KGSSHV's both built by headinclouds, but whether they are better than the BHSE is IMO down to personal taste.
> I've heard both of Julian's KGSSHV's and they did give the 009's a stronger bass, but to what I recall they also made the 009's sound similar to the LCD-XC I once had, in other words not as open sounding as when driven by the BHSE.
> 
> The thing to do though is to try both amps together to know for sure.


 

 Hi David
 Totally agree with you. This is what I said in a PM to Quixote79:


> It is very close to the amazing BHSE and better in the dynamics and bass department.


 
  
 However, the BHSE in the midrange and on female vocals it sounded more real as you would expect for a tube amp. My KGSShv is slightly warmer which may help on some DACs. But at this level it is already incredible, way way beyond any current Stax amp.


----------



## edstrelow

quixote79 said:


> I also use power conditioner for my all my gear, how do I apply this sorbothane to the conditioner to make everything even better? can I apply it to the outside only as I am not comfortable loosing my warrenty. thanks.


 
 I would try it on the underside of the unit. Since I think the problem you are trying to address is microphonics caused by transformer vibrations, you might try to get as close as possible to where the transformer sits.  Also it seems that there is some agreement among people who have tried sorbothane damping, that small pieces, i.e. less than 1 inch square are more effective than large sheets. There is a lot of 1/8 inch self-stick sorb available on Ebay and Amazon. It still takes about a day to fully bond but remains easy to remove if you decide to take it off. I have not seen any thicker sorb with self-stick and you have to use glue such as 3M 80  which is harder to remove. 
  
 There are all kinds of sorbothane footers, but I find them less effective and more expensive than little pieces. Possibly if you really know something about the interaction between mass and size and thickness of the footers, you can get them to work.  I started that way but found I was getting better results with pieces of sheet sorb.


----------



## DolphinG

Hello another question here.
 I wonder which tool should be used to remove small pins that hold 'case holder' to arc assembly.
 I know that I should push it to other side, replace case holder and replace those pins... but I think that these pins don't want to get away from their place.
 Is there specific tool size that can remove these small pins?


----------



## Quixote79

david1961 said:


> Julian has two KGSSHV's both built by headinclouds, but whether they are better than the BHSE is IMO down to personal taste.
> I've heard both of Julian's KGSSHV's and they did give the 009's a stronger bass, but to what I recall they also made the 009's sound similar to the LCD-XC I once had, in other words not as open sounding as when driven by the BHSE.
> 
> The thing to do though is to try both amps together to know for sure.


 
  
  


astrostar59 said:


> Hi David
> Totally agree with you. This is what I said in a PM to Quixote79:
> 
> However, the BHSE in the midrange and on female vocals it sounded more real as you would expect for a tube amp. My KGSShv is slightly warmer which may help on some DACs. But at this level it is already incredible, way way beyond any current Stax amp.


 

 maybe it takes the 009s to really appreciate the BHSE? and if one only has a new pair of 007 the kgsshv will be as good as the BHSE and with even better bass?


----------



## Quixote79

mulveling said:


> The 007 Mk I's are not way too old. While I do prefer the L700 and 009 over my 007 Mk I, a well-kept old pair of Stax is fine. Purk has a pair of 1980's Lambda Pro that sound great. And they sure as hell don't fall apart like Grados, because they're not built like some 5th grader's first craft project with a hot glue gun.
> 
> A headinclouds KGSShv is going to be a seriously great amp -- maybe only head-amp can produce a build quality above that. The KGSShv did go through a few revisions, hence the onboard vs. off-board. Both can sound great. A good KGSShv build can get reasonably close to the Carbon, and even the BHSE, in sound quality.


 

 Thanks, but I learned from astrostar59 that the leather pads, the frame, the cable and cable entry, all these will wear. There is dust, and other problems over years of use.
 I guess you will be able to see if the leather has worn. But how can one see or know if there is dust in the driver or the other problems astrostar59 mentions?
 It sounds more and more like one should avoid those old ones and just get new ones from PJ.
  
 A good kgsshv is one from headinclouds and other builds is not so good, and there are no real reason to opt for a carbon rather? 
 some pointed out that the cavelli amps should be superior but I don't see many comments on his amp in the stax thread why is that?


----------



## John Buchanan

dolphing said:


> Hello another question here.
> I wonder which tool should be used to remove small pins that hold 'case holder' to arc assembly.
> I know that I should push it to other side, replace case holder and replace those pins... but I think that these pins don't want to get away from their place.
> Is there specific tool size that can remove these small pins?


 
 You need an appropriately sized tool called a punch.


----------



## David1961

quixote79 said:


> maybe it takes the 009s to really appreciate the BHSE? and if one only has a new pair of 007 the kgsshv will be as good as the BHSE and with even better bass?




I found the 009's started sounding really good driven by the BHSE when I started using Psvane PH tubes and more so NOS Mullard xf4's which I have in my BHSE now. 
When I was using the stock Mullard's the 009's sounded very uncomfortable.

Yes I found astrostar59's KGSSHV's did give the 009's a stronger bass than with the BHSE, but that doesn't mean it's a better bass. I suppose it depends on whether you're a bass-head or not, which I'm not.

I prefer the BHSE to Julian's KGSSHV's, but others should try a BHSE and KGSSHV together, then draw their own conclusions.


----------



## Rhamnetin

quixote79 said:


> maybe it takes the 009s to really appreciate the BHSE? and if one only has a new pair of 007 the kgsshv will be as good as the BHSE and with even better bass?


 
  
 The SR-007 is even harder to drive than the SR-009, so it should scale more with more powerful amplifiers like the BHSE.  Also the BHSE is the perfect sonic matchup for the SR-007, whereas many feel it's too bright for the SR-009.


----------



## Michgelsen

quixote79 said:


> so you recommend either a L700 or a 009 rather than a 007 that being new or old ones?
> but why is some saying that old stax is way too old and others that they are fine??? does it depend on where it has been bought originally?


 
  
 Some people prefer the 009, some prefer the 007.
  
 It doesn't matter when Stax headphones are old. If they're still in good shape, then they're good. It's as simple as that. Also the opposite is true: if you buy a banged-up pair, that's what you get. A well-kept pair doesn't really age in any problematic way. By the way, it doesn't matter where they were bought.
 There are A LOT of 007 Mk1's still in active service, for example my own pair, and a lot of them are still in absolutely mint condition. Some members here have much older earspeakers still, such as all the different vintage Lambdas.


----------



## MacedonianHero

rhamnetin said:


> The SR-007 is even harder to drive than the SR-009, so it should scale more with more powerful amplifiers like the BHSE.  Also the BHSE is the perfect sonic matchup for the SR-007, whereas many feel it's too bright for the SR-009.


 
 Being less efficient is not a the same as scaling better. The SR-009s are a revelation into my DAC...more so than my SR-007s (Mk1) have ever been.


----------



## Rhamnetin

macedonianhero said:


> Being less efficient is not a the same as scaling better. The SR-009s are a revelation into my DAC...more so than my SR-007s (Mk1) have ever been.


 
  
 Yeah but you're talking DAC, we're talking amps.  Your principle may be technically correct though, although with regards to driving the SR-007 and SR-009 with amps, both are known to scale rather similarly, with the SR-007 fans saying it scales more.


----------



## Quixote79

michgelsen said:


> Some people prefer the 009, some prefer the 007.
> 
> It doesn't matter when Stax headphones are old. If they're still in good shape, then they're good. It's as simple as that. Also the opposite is true: if you buy a banged-up pair, that's what you get. A well-kept pair doesn't really age in any problematic way. By the way, it doesn't matter where they were bought.
> There are A LOT of 007 Mk1's still in active service, for example my own pair, and a lot of them are still in absolutely mint condition. Some members here have much older earspeakers still, such as all the different vintage Lambdas.


 

 thanks a lot.
 I find it confusing that some is saying that the old ones are way too old and point to worn out pads, weak cable entry, dust becoming a problem, and others seems to have no problems at all recommending old pairs


----------



## Quixote79

rhamnetin said:


> The SR-007 is even harder to drive than the SR-009, so it should scale more with more powerful amplifiers like the BHSE.  Also the BHSE is the perfect sonic matchup for the SR-007, whereas many feel it's too bright for the SR-009.


 

 So you say that the BHSE is more powerful than the kgsshv and others say that the kgsshv sounds as good as the BHSE even better in the bass. A stronger bass I think was mentioned. So the kgsshv should also be sonic match to the 007?
 If one for some reason find the combination too bright is there a builder who can voice the amp to get the right balance?


----------



## zolkis

quixote79 said:


> thanks a lot.
> I find it confusing that some is saying that the old ones are way too old and point to worn out pads, weak cable entry, dust becoming a problem, and others seems to have no problems at all recommending old pairs


 
  
 I have one of the earliest 007 Mk1 (in the old style carbon box with the ugly rubber corners), but I have not had any problems with it.
 I recently have changed the headband though, and also the earpads (but for modding reasons, not for their condition).
 The cable entry is rock solid. Dust is not a problem in my environment (filtered ventilation in the house).


----------



## Michgelsen

quixote79 said:


> I find it confusing that some is saying that the old ones are way too old and point to worn out pads, weak cable entry, dust becoming a problem, and others seems to have no problems at all recommending old pairs


 
  
 The 007 Mk.1 has a somewhat weaker cable entry than the later versions. Stax improved this on the Mk.2 / A to withstand more abuse. Through normal use, nothing will happen with the cable (entry) on a Mk.1, but for example if you step on the cable while wearing the earspeakers, it may break. It may also break in such a case on the Mk.2 / A, but the chance is lowered. A Mk.1 can withstand a normal snag just fine though.
  
 Worn out pads will need to be replaced on ANY used headphone at some point. No problem at all, as you can easily do this yourself.
  
 As long as the dust covers on the drivers are not punctured, which they shouldn't be unless someone has been poking trough the driver housing, you are extremely unlikely to get dust problems. Stax dustcovers are very good. On Koss or Sennheiser electrostats however, dust problems are indeed a real thing.


----------



## astrostar59

Hmm, I am not convinced it is still worth chasing a MK1 anymore, as the current 007A is hugely better than the MK2, and IMO sounds very close to the old MK1. The Mk1 is now 15 years old or more. I get what some are saying, but new is better if it cost the same surely?
  
 Also the cups on the 007A are better (deeper) and more comfy, the cable entry thing. Plus I personally like the silver looks as well.
  
 I have heard of drivers wearing out, I had a pair of Lambda Pros where one driver failed. 
  
 Anyway, I would say buy new unless the MK1 is 50% of the price of a new 007A. Sadly most MK1's seem to be inflated to almost the same price ( or even more) than a new 007A which seems daft to me....


----------



## Michgelsen

Yes if the price was the same I would buy a new one too. I guess it also depends on where you live, because with PriceJapan fee, shipping and import duties/VAT all added up, buying second-hand may still be a lot cheaper. In that case I wouldn't hesitate to buy a good condition Mk.1.


----------



## Quixote79

michgelsen said:


> Yes if the price was the same I would buy a new one too. I guess it also depends on where you live, because with PriceJapan fee, shipping and import duties/VAT all added up, buying second-hand may still be a lot cheaper. In that case I wouldn't hesitate to buy a good condition Mk.1.


 

 I see from your tag line that you are using a Stax 717 + 007, do you experience the 717 runs out of juice quickly? Have you heard the kgsshv?


----------



## Michgelsen

I have not heard a KGSSHV or other Kevin Gilmore design. The 717 is the best Stax amp I have had the pleasure of listening to.
  
 I find the 717 very good at low and moderate volumes. When you push it, it's still adequate, but you can hear that it does not have enough juice. For example, if you listen to loud EDM that has not had a lot of compression (deep house for example) with strong, clean, round bass notes yet still a clean (i.e. not filled with all kinds of sounds) and dynamic sound to it, it reaches a point at higher volumes where it becomes apparent that the 717 cannot deliver any more bass, although the other parts of the spectrum can still get louder. This is basically what clipping is all about: decreasing dynamics, increasing distortion. So, yes, in this case in can hear it clipping and running out of juice.
 When you listen to the more mainstream EDM, which has a lot of compression to it and already distorted sounds as part of the music, or a distorted hardstyle bass for example, it becomes less apparent. Listening to other genres that are much more mid-centric (classical, vocalists, blues, normal pop music), I don't experience clipping or 'running out of juice', because these types of music don't invite you to increase the volume as much, and if you do, the mids (voices, instruments) become painful to the ears much more quickly, long before you can hear clipping in the bass. I cannot hear clipping in the mids or highs, but maybe that's because I don't know what to listen for.
  
 In short, yes, I can hear the 717 running out of juice sometimes, but only at high or unhealthy volumes.
  
 Would I like some extra headroom? Sure! But for monetary reasons I don't want to upgrade. I don't feel the need/urge to upgrade, hence I cannot justify spending the money. Furthermore, I like the design and footprint of the 717 a lot, and also love its 'direct mode', bypassing the volume control. (I like to use the superb 200-stepped attenuator of my Grace m903.)


----------



## zolkis

astrostar59 said:


> Anyway, I would say buy new unless the MK1 is 50% of the price of a new 007A. Sadly most MK1's seem to be inflated to almost the same price ( or even more) than a new 007A which seems daft to me....


 
  
 The 007A costs 1523 euros delivered to EU, then 4% import tax and 24% VAT (very difficult to get around it here), ending up at ~2000 euros. The 007 Mk1 costs around 1400-1600 euros, depending on the condition and serial number. You have guarantee with the 007A, but posting back and forth between PJ and your location will cost a lot in the case of a problem. At least with a used 007 Mk1 you know what you get (or seller reputation goes down -- if that matters).
  
 As for how close they sound - I have tested the 007 Mk1 against the 007 Mk2 (official import, not from PJ), and the old ones sounded more open and a tad smoother. The difference is likely due to different pads, and perhaps different Mylar source for the diaphragm. I agree the 007 Mk2 sounds better today than it used to, but I am not sure if it's a 1:1 replacement for the old 007 Mk1's, at least the ones with the old style box. IIRC I preferred both the 009 and the L700 over the 007 Mk2, but I didn't try my modded earpads on them.
  
 I think it would be very hard to choose blindly, based on the opinions above. Indeed it would be safer to go with the 009 or the L700 (I know it's "just" a Lambda, but a good one), rather than the 007A + 009 pads (eventually modded with different filling), especially when the 007A + 009 pads would cost around 2100 euros. A second hand 009 would perhaps be a better choice then?


----------



## Quixote79

michgelsen said:


> I have not heard a KGSSHV or other Kevin Gilmore design. The 717 is the best Stax amp I have had the pleasure of listening to.
> 
> I find the 717 very good at low and moderate volumes. When you push it, it's still adequate, but you can hear that it does not have enough juice. For example, if you listen to loud EDM that has not had a lot of compression (deep house for example) with strong, clean, round bass notes yet still a clean (i.e. not filled with all kinds of sounds) and dynamic sound to it, it reaches a point at higher volumes where it becomes apparent that the 717 cannot deliver any more bass, although the other parts of the spectrum can still get louder. This is basically what clipping is all about: decreasing dynamics, increasing distortion. So, yes, in this case in can hear it clipping and running out of juice.
> When you listen to the more mainstream EDM, which has a lot of compression to it and already distorted sounds as part of the music, or a distorted hardstyle bass for example, it becomes less apparent. Listening to other genres that are much more mid-centric (classical, vocalists, blues, normal pop music), I don't experience clipping or 'running out of juice', because these types of music don't invite you to increase the volume as much, and if you do, the mids (voices, instruments) become painful to the ears much more quickly, long before you can hear clipping in the bass. I cannot hear clipping in the mids or highs, but maybe that's because I don't know what to listen for.
> ...


 

 thanks a lot for the explanation. it makes perfect sense.
  
 I was searcing for some comments on Cavellis LL2 and happen to come by some guy claiming the the 717 is a kgsshv??? 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/22410#post_9463392


----------



## Michgelsen

quixote79 said:


> thanks a lot for the explanation. it makes perfect sense.
> 
> I was searcing for some comments on Cavellis LL2 and happen to come by some guy claiming the the 717 is a kgsshv???
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/22410#post_9463392


 
  
 Spritzer is not 'some guy', he is very knowledgeable, and has a lot of Stax and DIY experience. See his website for his builds. Mind you, there's a difference between the original KGSS (Kevin Gilmore Solid State [amp]) and the KGSSHV (High Voltage). The HV is the improved and more powerful version. So while the 717 may share design traits with the KGSS, it is by no means a KGSSHV.


----------



## catspaw

Anyone here knows whenever stax hps EQ well?
 I want to get either a HD800 or a 2170 and eq them to have more bass impact (I like bass heavy hps like HE-400 and LCD 2 but they are too heavy for me).
  
 Im mostly interested in HD800 and 2170 because their distortion levels are staggeringly low.


----------



## astrostar59

michgelsen said:


> Spritzer is not 'some guy', he is very knowledgeable, and has a lot of Stax and DIY experience. See his website for his builds. Mind you, there's a difference between the original KGSS (Kevin Gilmore Solid State [amp]) and the KGSSHV (High Voltage). The HV is the improved and more powerful version. So while the 717 may share design traits with the KGSS, it is by no means a KGSSHV.


 

 I had the SRM-717 for 2 years with my 007 MK2s then my 009 briefly. It is way way behind my KGSShv, so much so it is untrue. Everything is better, night and day. It take the 007 and 009 into the high end IMO.  Before with the 717 is was 'nice' but not much better than using my Lambda Nova Signatures to be honest.
  
 Getting a good amp to power the 007 and 009 made me realise just how good a headphone they are and how much they scale. They sound like another headphone completely.


----------



## astrostar59

zolkis said:


> The 007A costs 1523 euros delivered to EU, then 4% import tax and 24% VAT (very difficult to get around it here), ending up at ~2000 euros.


 
 It depends, talk to PJ.


----------



## Quixote79

astrostar59 said:


> Into the UK I paid £20 import, as PJ marked it down.


 

 How did you get PJ to mark them down?


----------



## Quixote79

michgelsen said:


> Spritzer is not 'some guy', he is very knowledgeable, and has a lot of Stax and DIY experience. See his website for his builds. Mind you, there's a difference between the original KGSS (Kevin Gilmore Solid State [amp]) and the KGSSHV (High Voltage). The HV is the improved and more powerful version. So while the 717 may share design traits with the KGSS, it is by no means a KGSSHV.


 

 Sorry I wasn't aware. Thank you for showing me.
 Makes sense if the 717 is almost a kgss and the hv is an improved and more powerful that it is as good as the bhse.
 but why is headincloud builds considered better than the ones from spitzer?


----------



## mulveling

quixote79 said:


> Sorry I wasn't aware. Thank you for showing me.
> Makes sense if the 717 is almost a kgss and the hv is an improved and more powerful that it is as good as the bhse.
> but why is headincloud builds considered better than the ones from spitzer?


 
 Slow down man. Do more research via searches. You're requesting a lot of information fast, getting some of the answers mixed up or twisted around, and then echoing that back here for your follow-ups. You may be confusing other Stax novices and projecting the wrong idea on certain things. 
  
 Nobody said a headinclouds amps are better than spritzer amps. And there can be a lot of variation amongst builds from the same builder. Most experienced Stax users would put both headinclouds and Spritzer builds in the elite/top echelon of builds, with Spritzer also having a hand in the design of some of the finer amps we enjoy.


----------



## rgs9200m

I'm a bit mystified as why the 717 is talked about as being in a different league than the 007t and 727 amps. I owned the 007t in both versions for many years and they sounded not all that different from the 717 I heard in stores and shows. The KGSShv is much better.


----------



## Quixote79

mulveling said:


> Slow down man. Do more research via searches. You're requesting a lot of information fast, getting some of the answers mixed up or twisted around, and then echoing that back here for your follow-ups. You may be confusing other Stax novices and projecting the wrong idea on certain things.
> 
> Nobody said a headinclouds amps are better than spritzer amps. And there can be a lot of variation amongst builds from the same builder. Most experienced Stax users would put both headinclouds and Spritzer builds in the elite/top echelon of builds, with Spritzer also having a hand in the design of some of the finer amps we enjoy.


 

 sorry ...just curious to know why only headincluds was mentioned and not Spitzer when his build are equal as good


----------



## Pokemonn

catspaw said:


> Anyone here knows whenever stax hps EQ well?
> I want to get either a HD800 or a 2170 and eq them to have more bass impact (I like bass heavy hps like HE-400 and LCD 2 but they are too heavy for me).
> 
> Im mostly interested in HD800 and 2170 because their distortion levels are staggeringly low.


 
 Hi catspaw, Mr Katz's advice help me a lot on EQ. please read below link.
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-bob-katz-eqing-headphones-harman-target-response


----------



## MacedonianHero

rhamnetin said:


> Yeah but you're talking DAC, we're talking amps.  Your principle may be technically correct though, although with regards to driving the SR-007 and SR-009 with amps, both are known to scale rather similarly, with the SR-007 fans saying it scales more.




I would say both scale equally with amps, but some might confuse the less efficient sr007s as scaling more simply because they require more power due to being mote inefficient. But in terms of being more revealing of upstream gear, I'd give the nod to the sr009s. That's after owning (and very much enjoying both) for several years.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Is it normal for Kaneda of PriceJapan to be silent and unresponsive to emails while waiting for an order to ship?  Not liking my experience with this store so far.


----------



## joseph69

rhamnetin said:


> Is it normal for Kaneda of PriceJapan to be silent and unresponsive to emails while waiting for an order to ship?  Not liking my experience with this store so far.


 
 Anytime I've e-mailed PJ they resounded very promptly
 I did notice it took longer for the 009 to arrive. Both times I ordered them it took about 15+ days.
 When I ordered the 007 they were at my door in within 1-week.


----------



## Rhamnetin

joseph69 said:


> Anytime I've e-mailed PJ they resounded very promptly
> I did notice it took longer for the 009 to arrive. Both times I ordered them it took about 15+ days.
> When I ordered the 007 they were at my door in within 1-week.


 
  
 That sounds more like a proper buying experience.  I ordered an SR-007, it has been over a week without a shipping update or tracking number (or any correspondence at all).  I've sent out a few emails, If I hear nothing by tomorrow I'll have to open a dispute in PayPal.  How unfortunate.  I knew the risk going in though, so I'm not surprised by any of this.


----------



## joseph69

rhamnetin said:


> That sounds more like a proper buying experience.  I ordered an SR-007, it has been over a week without a shipping update or tracking number (or any correspondence at all).  I've sent out a few emails, If I hear nothing by tomorrow I'll have to open a dispute in PayPal.  How unfortunate.  I knew the risk going in though, so I'm not surprised by any of this.


 
 In my case, purchasing the two 009's and the 007 couldn't have went smoother.
 PJ didn't provide a tracking #…they only provided a shipping confirmation.
 I would wait before you do anything, and have some patience. As I said, I've had nothing but excellent service dealing with them and wouldn't think twice about dealing with them again.
  
 One thing…check your PP account to see if the payment was withdrawn.
 The last purchase I made I had followed all of the steps on their site to make payment via PP and for some reason they never received it, but it also wasn't taken out of my PP account either. So just check to make sure the payment was withdrawn from your PP account.


----------



## paradoxper

rhamnetin said:


> That sounds more like a proper buying experience.  I ordered an SR-007, it has been over a week without a shipping update or tracking number (or any correspondence at all).  I've sent out a few emails, If I hear nothing by tomorrow I'll have to open a dispute in PayPal.  How unfortunate.  I knew the risk going in though, so I'm not surprised by any of this.


 
 You're way impatient. A week and you plan to file a PayPal dispute. That's very unreasonable. Give it more time.


----------



## Rhamnetin

joseph69 said:


> In my case, purchasing the two 009's and the 007 couldn't have went smoother.
> PJ didn't provide a tracking #…they only provided a shipping confirmation.
> I would wait before you do anything, and have some patience. As I said, I've had nothing but excellent service dealing with them and wouldn't think twice about dealing with them again.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah I actually went through a similar PayPal experience, but that's all fine and settled.  The last update I received from Kaneda was 12 days ago, confirming he got the payment and "it may take a week for it to ship."  No actual shipping confirmation.  
  


paradoxper said:


> You're way impatient. A week and you plan to file a PayPal dispute. That's very unreasonable. Give it more time.


 
  
 I think it's reasonable.  12 days, no confirmation that any product was actually sent.  No correspondence at all either.


----------



## joseph69

rhamnetin said:


> Yeah I actually went through a similar PayPal experience, but that's all fine and settled.  The last update I received from Kaneda was 12 days ago, confirming he got the payment and "it may take a week for it to ship."  No actual shipping confirmation.
> I think it's reasonable.  12 days, no confirmation that any product was actually sent.  No correspondence at all either.


 
 They will ship…like I said, I waited 15+ days for my 007 so just be patient.
 Hell, I've had my second pair 009's now for 3+ weeks and can't even listen to them until I receive my BHSE…all I can do is be patient.


----------



## paradoxper

rhamnetin said:


> Yeah I actually went through a similar PayPal experience, but that's all fine and settled.  The last update I received from Kaneda was 12 days ago, confirming he got the payment and "it may take a week for it to ship."  No actual shipping confirmation.
> 
> 
> I think it's reasonable.  12 days, no confirmation that any product was actually sent.  No correspondence at all either.


 
 It's reasonable to be pissy that you didn't receive any update (if sourcing was taking longer, etc.) It's not reasonable to open a dispute, though.


----------



## Rhamnetin

paradoxper said:


> It's reasonable to be pissy that you didn't receive any update (if sourcing was taking longer, etc.) It's not reasonable to open a dispute, though.


 
  
 If he won't respond to emails, maybe he'll respond to a dispute.  Tomorrow will be the 13th day so that's just about two full weeks and well over two business weeks with zero responses or updates.  I'm more concerned than pissy, there are horror stories about PJ but again I saw them beforehand and knew the risk.  I may wait an extra day or two, perhaps he is simply unaware that buyers like to know what the status is of their order.
  


joseph69 said:


> They will ship…like I said, I waited 15+ days for my 007 so just be patient.
> Hell, I've had my second pair 009's now for 3+ weeks and can't even listen to them until I receive my BHSE…all I can do is be patient.


 
  
 Oh I was prepared for it to take at least a month to get here.  But no responses or updates after 12 days (in a few hours 13 actually) is a bit unnerving.  But I will wait a bit longer before a dispute.


----------



## joseph69

rhamnetin said:


> Oh I was prepared for it to take at least a month to get here.  But no responses or updates after 12 days (in a few hours 13 actually) is a bit unnerving.  But I will wait a bit longer before a dispute.


 
 I just checked how long it took from placing my order to receive my first 009…it took 24 days and that means I didn't get a shipping notice until about 19 days…so be patient. my second pair took approximately the same time. What did you order anyway?


----------



## comzee

joseph69 said:


> They will ship…like I said, I waited 15+ days for my 007 so just be patient.
> Hell, I've had my second pair 009's now for 3+ weeks and can't even listen to them until I receive my BHSE…all I can do is be patient.


 
 Yup, bought 009 from PJ, friends have bought from PJ, many on these forums have ordered from PJ without issues. Patience is key @Rhamnetin, it's international, not like ordering from Amazon.


----------



## joseph69

comzee said:


> Yup, bought 009 from JP, friends have bought from JP, many on these forums have ordered from JP without issues. Patience is key, it's international, not like ordering from Amazon.


 
 Yes, but when I received the shipping notice they arrived to the states within 1 week, which shocked me. I'm on the East coast and have ordered things from the West coast and they took much longer to arrive.


----------



## Rhamnetin

joseph69 said:


> I just checked how long it took from placing my order to receive my first 009…it took 24 days and that means I didn't get a shipping notice until about 19 days…so be patient. my second pair took approximately the same time. What did you order anyway?


 
  
 It was an SR-007, but in that case I'll definitely wait a bit longer.  Interesting that he says a week to ship, but you got the shipping notice 19 days later.  Also I order overseas very often, Japan included.  Although never from an export site so this is different.


----------



## joseph69

rhamnetin said:


> It was an SR-007, but in that case I'll definitely wait a bit longer. * Interesting that he says a week to ship, but you got the shipping notice 19 days later.*  Also I order overseas very often, Japan included.  Although never from an export site so this is different.


 
 But it does state on their site that it may take some time so...


----------



## Sko0byDoo

PJ may be late but they'll get your item out...but remind them and get confirmations (order and shipping).  They forgot my Tak300B order until I reminded them.  Once the issue acknowledged, things moved along pretty quick.


----------



## Tinkerer

Probably best to wait. Stuff might even be shipped and they just didn't send you the tracking. I got the custom transformers for my KGSSHV-C2 in from toroidy in europe today and they never even told me it shipped.
  
 I don't get worried over that sort of thing unless it's been more than a month. Paypal gives you 45 days to file so there's no rush.


----------



## Rhamnetin

sko0bydoo said:


> PJ may be late but they'll get your item out...but remind them and get confirmations (order and shipping).  They forgot my Tak300B order until I reminded them.  Once the issue acknowledged, things moved along pretty quick.


 
  
 Hah, wow.  Simply forgot your order, that's a new one I'll admit.  I'll just keep up with the weekly reminders then.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

rhamnetin said:


> Hah, wow.  Simply forgot your order, that's a new one I'll admit.  I'll just keep up with the weekly reminders then.


 
  
 I waited for a month though...before reminding/bugging them.  Do exercise patience, like someone said, they're not like Amazon.


----------



## martin778

I'm thinking of upgrading from 407 to something better, which of the two would be a better option, a) brand new SR-L700 b) Used, few years old SR-007 Mark1.
 My amp is SRM006tS.


----------



## Michgelsen

I haven't heard the L700, but do own the 007 Mk.1 and have heard it with the SRM-T1 when I still had that, which is equivalent to the 006tS. Expect a bit of a loose bass and in general a lush, not very tight sound. The 007 still sounds good (especially if you like that type of sound) out of a T1/006tS, but I think the L700 would be a better match with that amp, without having heard it. This is because I think the Stax tube amps in general work well with the Lambdas, which the L700 is.


----------



## Quixote79

michgelsen said:


> I haven't heard the L700, but do own the 007 Mk.1 and have heard it with the SRM-T1 when I still had that, which is equivalent to the 006tS. Expect a bit of a loose bass and in general a lush, not very tight sound. The 007 still sounds good (especially if you like that type of sound) out of a T1/006tS, but I think the L700 would be a better match with that amp, without having heard it. This is because I think the Stax tube amps in general work well with the Lambdas, which the L700 is.


 

 Why do Lambdas in general work better with Stax tube amps?


----------



## Michgelsen

Because they're easy to drive and the tube amps do not have much power, mainly, and because the lusher midrange of a T1 breathes a bit more life into for example a Lambda Signature or SR-202 (or Sennheiser HE60). It's a midrange thing, for me.
  
 Edit: to be honest, I find the midrange a weaker point on the Lambdas I heard/owned (LS, 202, 207, 507), although still adequate. In my opinion this is the main reason to go for a 007 over a Lambda.
 Edit 2: I'm therefore really curious to hear whether the L700 improves this.


----------



## martin778

I know that T1 is very similar to 006tS, still the later is a good 20 years newer and uses newer compontents so I expect it to be a bit better than the T1 (otherwise there would be no point to release the 006t, tII and tS, I think).
  
 I will try to audition the L700's somewhere.


----------



## nemomec

martin778 said:


> ... so I expect it to be a bit better than the T1 ...


 
 It is the other way around!


----------



## zolkis

martin778 said:


> I'm thinking of upgrading from 407 to something better, which of the two would be a better option, a) brand new SR-L700 b) Used, few years old SR-007 Mark1.
> My amp is SRM006tS.


 
  
 If you don't want to change the amp, perhaps the L700 is better match, and cheaper. 
 I slightly preferred the L700 over the 007 Mk2 (I mean recent 007 Mk2 which may or may not be the same thing in the EU as the 007A in Japan).
 However, the L700 sounds a tiny bit more coarse and more "hi-fi" in the treble -- if I may say that. Nevertheless, it didn't exhibit the problems of the e.g. 507, and I was very positively surprised by the sound.
 I have also compared the L700 with other headphones (e.g. HD800, TH900, Audeze 2/3f/X/XC) and IMHO it belongs to the top echelon.
 The 007 Mk1 may sound more open than the Mk2, but depends on the serial number (diaphragm), and the pads.
 Anyway the stock 007 Mk1 sounds darker than the L700, more fluid, with more midbass, and resolves better dynamic gradations, tone differences, small nuances etc.
 The modded 007 Mk1 (with the 009 earpads + optional filling mods) sounds similarly open as the L700, while retaining all advantages, plus adding better sound stage.
 People generally need to grow into appreciating the 007 Mk1, but almost everyone likes the 009 and the L700 right away.
 The only thing you need to make sure is that you are compatible with the treble of the 009 and the L700 -- not a problem for me, but I am approaching 50.
 Also, make sure the Lambdas are comfortable for you. The L700 is perhaps the most comfortable Lambda I have tried, but the 007 is more comfy, and the 009 is much more.
  
 Summing up, I'd recommend saving for a used 009.
 Then, I'd choose the 007 Mk1 but only if you are willing to buy 009 pads for it (another 140 euro).
 The L700 is a safe bet when coming from the 407.
  
 If you consider changing the 006t to another relatively cheap tube amp from this guy, you may choose either the L700, 007 Mk1 or the 009 as all sound good with it. In fact the L700 sounded more fluid with it than with the SRM-007t mkII. No doubt the KGSSHV and BHSE may be even better (could not check yet), but this amp is definitely an "affordable" reference.
  
 Looks like in either case you should change the amp if you'd like to scale up. But you can do it by changing the headphones first, then (eventually) the amp.


----------



## bmichels

Interesting prototype of a DAC/Amp from STAX ! Should be at Singapour CanJam !



Mentioned here by Jude


----------



## martin778

@nemomec
 It could be caused due to those crappy EH 6CG7 tubes. The RCA cleartops made a big difference, gone was the coarse treble.
 The T1 used some nice vintage Toshiba / Mazda tubes AFAIK.
  
 I thought about the 009 but the doom topics about 009 drivers going bust for no reason at all made me reconsider my decision...


----------



## Michgelsen

bmichels said:


> Interesting prototype of a DAC/Amp from STAX ! Should be at Singapour CanJam !
> 
> 
> 
> Mentioned here by Jude


 
  
  
 Jude mentions Stax from 5m18 in the video. He says he hasn't spoken to Stax about what they're bringing, so it's only a wild guess that they will be bringing this prototype, which is probably not going to be called the SRM-212 as Jude thinks, because that already exists. Edit: I stand corrected, it appears in this video that Stax is reusing the SRM-212 name for now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrXFVHIHLl4
  


martin778 said:


> @nemomec
> It could be caused due to those crappy EH 6CG7 tubes. The RCA cleartops made a big difference, gone was the coarse treble.
> The T1 used some nice vintage Toshiba / Mazda tubes AFAIK.
> 
> I thought about the 009 but the doom topics about 009 drivers going bust for no reason at all made me reconsider my decision...


 
  
 My T1 had GE tubes installed. Changed it to NOS NEC ones (likely similar to Toshiba / Mazda / other Japanese) and I remember I did find it a small improvement. However it's too long ago to recall details.


----------



## bmichels

michgelsen said:


> Jude mentions Stax from 5m18 in the video. He says he hasn't spoken to Stax about what they're bringing, so it's only a wild guess that they will be bringing this prototype, which is probably not going to be called the SRM-212 as Jude thinks, because that already exists. Edit: I stand corrected, it appears in this video that Stax is reusing the SRM-212 name for now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrXFVHIHLl4


 
 indeed


----------



## Sorrodje

zolkis said:


> If you don't want to change the amp, perhaps the L700 is better match, and cheaper.
> I slightly preferred the L700 over the 007 Mk2


 
  
 By any chance , could you please give me your impressions about L700 bass impact compared to other Stax . the SR-507 was impressing in that area and I remember good bass impact from the 009 as well. Does the L700 play well for bass ?


----------



## plektret

I currently own SR404+SRM006tA. The transformer in the amp is blown and SR404 has a bad cable. I was thinking of buying a new amp and do a recabling but I've decided to buy a new full Stax system instead since the price difference is very small.

So I was wondering, how would the new SR-L500+SRM-353X compare to SR404+SRM006tA? Would it be an upgrade or in the same class? (L700 is too expensive).
I find SR404 (with original pads) somewhat uncomfortable. Is SR-L500 more comfortable?


----------



## zolkis

sorrodje said:


> By any chance , could you please give me your impressions about L700 bass impact compared to other Stax . the SR-507 was impressing in that area and I remember good bass impact from the 009 as well. Does the L700 play well for bass ?


 
  
 I don't have the 507 any more, but based on memory the L700 is better (more extended, with more resolution and at least the same impact) in the bass than the 507 was.
 The 007 Mk1 was quite a big step-up from the 507 especially with small chamber and jazz, but the L700 is much closer. Also, the 507 had a more hollow, slightly too ethereal and a bit harder sounding midrange, which made the bass a bit detached sometimes. The L700 has no such issues and has fuller and more physical midrange, while its bass is as extended and impactful or better.
  
 The 507 was very close to the HD800, with better mids and highs, more midbass and perhaps less extension, but the L700 is a clear step up and I prefer it over the HD800 in almost every area (even soundstaging comes closer) - which is quite a feat for the price. IMHO it is also better than the Hifimans in the price range (570, 6). The L700 doesn't have any obvious flaws to my ears and until I listen to the 009 or the 007 Mk1 + 009 pads, I don't really miss anything. It does scale with amps and sources, though less than the 007 or the 009. With the amp the primary quality to look (IMHO) after is not as much the extension, dynamics or power, but creamy smoothness.
  
 I can imagine the L700 could be end of game headphone for many people, even with the 353X, but with a smooth tube amp certainly. There are benefits of going up (as described in the previous post), and I would seriously consider a used 009 over the L700, but depends on personal factors. If my 507 sounded as good as the L700, I've probably never considered stepping up. Note that the build quality of the 507 headband and driver casing seemed to be better, but the ear pads are much better quality on the L700.


----------



## zolkis

plektret said:


> I currently own SR404+SRM006tA. The transformer in the amp is blown and SR404 has a bad cable. I was thinking of buying a new amp and do a recabling but I've decided to buy a new full Stax system instead since the price difference is very small.
> 
> So I was wondering, how would the new SR-L500+SRM-353X compare to SR404+SRM006tA? Would it be an upgrade or in the same class? (L700 is too expensive).
> I find SR404 (with original pads) somewhat uncomfortable. Is SR-L500 more comfortable?


 
  
 I have only shortly tested the L500, but put it away since the L700 was much better. 
 I think you need to fix the amp and the cable anyway.
 Perhaps the best bang for the buck would be to upgrade the headphone to the L700 and keep the 006tA. Eventually since you need the overhaul the amp, you could change some parts for better ones, for instance in the power supply, or get a fully regulated power supply, and for the same money you might get a better amp than the 353X, though that is pretty good actually.


----------



## bmichels

Does the new *SRM212 works on battery *or AC ? 
  

  
  
Could become a "transportable" STAX solution if it run on Battery


----------



## icebear

Has anyone heard the L700 with Stax ED-1 equalizer?
  
 I have the orig. Lambda-pro and when I initially shelled out the money for the ED-1 and set it up, I was pretty disappointed as there was no immediate improvement. However ... there is an on/bypass switch and when I switched to bypass after a couple of days listening via the ED-1, I couldn't believe how it was possible to listen to the Lambda w/o the ED-1. Treble is harsh and spiky w/o and smooth and relaxed with the ED-1.
  
 So a couple of comments about harsh treble in the L700 make me think, when you already have the ED-1, the L700 should be interesting.
 Not sure what my wallet will say


----------



## Pokemonn

icebear said:


> Has anyone heard the L700 with Stax ED-1 equalizer?
> 
> I have the orig. Lambda-pro and when I initially shelled out the money for the ED-1 and set it up, I was pretty disappointed as there was no immediate improvement. However ... there is an on/bypass switch and when I switched to bypass after a couple of days listening via the ED-1, I couldn't believe how it was possible to listen to the Lambda w/o the ED-1. Treble is harsh and spiky w/o and smooth and relaxed with the ED-1.
> 
> ...


 

 I hope Tyll will measure/review L700 soon. Tyll's measurement will help us a lot.


----------



## mulveling

Man, I don't get the L700 harsh treble comments -- what happens when you guys listen to a Lambda Sig, HD800, or (god forbid) a Grado? And I agree with Michgelson that the L700 is probably going to be the safer bet, vs. 007 or 009, if it's to be paired with a Stax tube amp. I also agree with that the 007 Mk I is indeed a bit more detailed and has larger soundstage, but I still like the L700 better overall (out of my KGST/KGSShv/Carbon amps) -- 007 Mk I is just too dark for me to enjoy most days.


----------



## seaice

L700 and harsh treble? This is strange. I have HD-800, L700 and 009 and L700 has a really nice treble, no harshness with my Carbon. And BTW, I prefer 009 to L700.


----------



## Quixote79

nemomec said:


> It is the other way around!


 

 that T1 is better than 006t? even though the 006t is newer and probably has better components?


----------



## Quixote79

zolkis said:


> The 007 Mk1 may sound more open than the Mk2, but depends on the serial number (diaphragm), and the pads.


 
 Can you please explain how the serial number and diaphragm corresponds? also the pads please, I am on the edge of buying a 007 ...


----------



## Michgelsen

icebear said:


> So a couple of comments about harsh treble in the L700 make me think, when you already have the ED-1, the L700 should be interesting.


 
  
 What harsh treble comments? I haven't seen any. All I see is praise for the L700.


----------



## comzee

zolkis said:


> The 507 was very close to the HD800, with better mids and highs, more midbass and perhaps less extension...


 
 How does the 507 compare with the 207?
  
 I'm not sure if this is correct, but I read that the 207/307/407/507 all use the same driver, the differences being the housing between the sets?
  
 I compared a 207 to my HD800 recently, and it was no contest, I'm wondering if the 507 is that much better.


----------



## Michgelsen

I don't think that's true about the drivers. A friend of mine has the 207, and I had the 507 for a while, and the 507 has more and punchier bass, but especially more treble, as if it has had U-shaped EQing applied. No annoying peaks though, very even, but still something you need to adjust to for a while. The 207 has a more balanced frequency spectrum, more like the 202. (202 and 207 sound similar IMO.) FYI, 207 was driven by a 252s, the 507 by my 717.


----------



## Quixote79

michgelsen said:


> The 207 has a more balanced frequency spectrum, more like the 202. (202 and 207 sound similar IMO.) FYI, 207 was driven by a 252s, the 507 by my 717.


 
 could it be that the 252 is voiced for the 207 and the 507 voiced for the high end amps?


----------



## Michgelsen

I wouldn't put too much faith in 'voicing'...
  
 If anything, an inferior electrostatic amp can't deliver enough power for the high frequencies, meaning that if what you say would be true, the 507 would be 'voiced' for low-end amps.


----------



## plektret

zolkis said:


> I have only shortly tested the L500, but put it away since the L700 was much better.
> I think you need to fix the amp and the cable anyway.
> Perhaps the best bang for the buck would be to upgrade the headphone to the L700 and keep the 006tA. Eventually since you need the overhaul the amp, you could change some parts for better ones, for instance in the power supply, or get a fully regulated power supply, and for the same money you might get a better amp than the 353X, though that is pretty good actually.



 

If I save money and get the L700 does it matter if I use 353S instead of 353X if I don't need balanced input? I don't want to do that much DIY on 006tA.


----------



## Michgelsen

plektret said:


> If I save money and get the L700 does it matter if I use 353S instead of 353X if I don't need balanced input?


 
  
 No.


----------



## zolkis

The L700 treble is not harsh at all, especially when you compare to dynamic headphones. But the 007 Mk1 is smoother, and with good amp and sources the 009 treble is also a bit smoother and higher resolution. This is only when I compare them directly.
  
 Don't forget the L700 was NEW. Both the 009 and 007 Mk1 were well run in. In my experience Stax headphones tend to get smoother and better after about 6-8 months of usage.
  
 All I wanted to say the L700 has really benefited from using a smooth sounding tube amp. The difference from the 353 was not big, but it was there. Also, it may be a personal preference, don't forget that I am among those few who prefer the (modded) 007 Mk1 over the 009. It's so rich, lush, fluid, full, musical. The 009 is a bit technical in my opinion, albeit it clearly does a lot of things better. This I only say that you realize my preferences are not in the mainstream. I used to prefer conrad johnson tube amps over ARC, for the same reason. I connect to the music more emotionally than intellectually, though the latter is also there, especially with Bach, Patitucci and others.
  
 Anyway... let's not label the L700 treble harsh . Somebody starts this and people take it for granted after a while. Actually the L700 is one of the few Stax headphones that anyone could order blindly and will not be disappointed. Upgrades may happen, but that's personal thing. Certainly the L700 is among the best headphones, and surely one of the biggest bargains.


----------



## martin778

I found the L700 for €1490 locally, are they any cheaper abroad (not including japan)?
 There is also a pair of 007A's for 1750 on German ebay.


----------



## zolkis

quixote79 said:


> Can you please explain how the serial number and diaphragm corresponds? also the pads please, I am on the edge of buying a 007 ...


 
 Spritzer has a good post about this:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/613187/stax-sr-007-omega-ii-mk1-vs-mk2-vs-sr-009-making-the-jump-into-high-end/45#post_8479430. 
 Check that thread.
 Also check this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/420311/whats-the-difference-between-stax-sr-007-mk1-and-mk2
 and this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/381975/to-tweak-or-not-to-tweak-the-stax-007a-that-is-the-question
 What I (and 2-3 more people I know) have noticed in addition is that the ones in the old carbon box were the most open sounding units. I have only heard 2 of them (my own 70300 and another 703xx), so it doesn't count as a rule, but both were more open than the contemporary 007 Mk2, but still quite darker than the 009. It does not mean there could not be other specimen with similar character. 
  
 People do report good things about the current 007A (Japanese version), but I don't know how does it relate to the current EU model 007 Mk2. If the two are similar, then the old 007 Mk1 is still better to my ears. Spritzer said they were the same, 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/420311/whats-the-difference-between-stax-sr-007-mk1-and-mk2#post_5895597
 But later he said the 007A is more forward (which is a good thing, and may make the 007A the most desirable).
http://www.head-fi.org/t/420311/whats-the-difference-between-stax-sr-007-mk1-and-mk2#post_5897950
  I never heard any SZ serials.
  
 Anyway: the 009 pads work on all variants of the 007, and IMHO make them a better headphone, and definitely more open sounding. The 009 opening is larger, but the pads are more shallow. When you make mods to the inner filling, it may go one more magnitude up. Somehow I managed to hit a sweet spot with mine, it has transformed completely, and sounds more alive and with wider sound stage than the 009, yet it has such a bass impact that it competes with my modded TH900 (down to about 25-30 Hz).


----------



## purk

The l700 treble was never harsh when I listened to it out of my kgsshv carbon and BHSE.


----------



## Michgelsen

martin778 said:


> I found the L700 for €1490 locally, are they any cheaper abroad (not including japan)?
> There is also a pair of 007A's for 1750 on German ebay.


 
  
 I inquired with a local dealer in Utrecht, who mentioned a price just below €1300. I don't remember exactly when this was - two months ago? - but at that time there were no L700s in the Netherlands yet. In fact, the distributor didn't even knew yet that the L700 existed... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have requested a demo, but have not heard from them since, so I assume a demo model has not yet arrived.


----------



## martin778

michgelsen said:


> I inquired with a local dealer in Utrecht, who mentioned a price just below €1300. I don't remember exactly when this was - two months ago? - but at that time there were no L700s in the Netherlands yet. In fact, the distributor didn't even knew yet that the L700 existed...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Stassen has them listed at €1490 but no word if they are really on stock. All others either don't have them listed or don't bother to mention their prices.


----------



## arnaud

I am probably going to put my 007mk1 for sale this week end. I seldom use them and my kids are starting to learn piano, that's about the same price in Japan for a reasonable digital piano .

Cheers,
Arnaud


----------



## astrostar59

seaice said:


> L700 and harsh treble? This is strange. I have HD-800, L700 and 009 and L700 has a really nice treble, no harshness with my Carbon. And BTW, I prefer 009 to L700.


 

 Eh? Can you update your profile.


----------



## Quixote79

zolkis said:


> I have spent about 2 hours with the following gear:
> 
> (Energizers)
> Stax SRM-007t II
> ...


 
  
  


plektret said:


> zolkis said:
> 
> 
> > I have only shortly tested the L500, but put it away since the L700 was much better.
> ...


 
  
 according to Zolkis the 353x is definitely better than the 353s ... also read somewhere else that the new design of the 353x is superior to the very old 353s


----------



## zolkis

The 353X is new, the 323S is old, and I haven't seen a 353S. The new 353X is indeed better than the 323S which I owned.


----------



## zolkis

What confuses me is that I have heard the new 007 MK2 but the MK1 was better, and so was the L700. Perhaps the 007A is different, but it shouldn't, in theory. Anyway, rely on the opinion of people who have compared them directly. I don't make an opinion since I don't have enough data.


----------



## zolkis

OK, I have read the thread from March '15 onwards, and I attempt an unqualified summary.
  
 Opinions are lacking proper comparison there, but I trust Spritzer, so looks like the 007A ordered from Japan is a safe bet, and they call it the 007 Mk2.9. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Whatever. 
  
 Regarding 007 versions, there is some controversy. There is a consensus on the "early" 007 Mk1 sounding the "best", but it's hard to identify the headphone, and to quantify the statement. Some people identify them based on the old style carbon fiber box, others by serial numbers, others by driver, or sound signature. It seems that if you have found a 007 Mk1 with the old style box and/or serial numbers in the low 70xxx (at least below 708xx), it has a high chance to be one of the magical "early" 007 Mk1. Allegedly they should sound slightly better with a smoother treble than later versions. I would add that they also sound a bit more open. Later versions may have more forward mids or treble, bigger bass etc, but I think these differences may have come from the pads alone, and the differences are likely minor. All this is aggravated by the fact that the 007 scales enormously with amps and it's hard to get consistency of opinions because of this. It's quite a mess anyway.
  
 Out of that mud, it is refreshing to know there is a new consensus on the "new" 007A being good. Mind that they need the "Stax 007A port mod" (google that). What makes it even more plausible is that Tyll has listened to the modded 007 of Bob Katz and said "When I plugged them in my jaw dropped—_this_ is what I want to hear from an electrostatic can. Brilliantly articulate and fast, but smooth as a baby's buttocks". Read more at http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-finale-headphones
 That mirrors my feelings when I listen to my modded 007 Mk1.
  
 But I didn't find an answer to my question: is the new 007A the same as the new 007 Mk2 (black)? If yes, all I can say is that I liked the L700 more overall, though I can imagine why someone would prefer the new 007 Mk_2.9_, especially when coming from a 007 Mk1. My modded 007 Mk1 sounded way better than the new 007 Mk2 in stock form (and also better than the L700 and I prefer it over the 009 as well), but this has no useful information for anyone.
  
 Now it seems that Spritzer hasn't heard the L700 yet (waiting for the 'inevitable fixes'), and Tyll has not measured them yet. I can imagine Spritzer disliking it for similar reasons he disliked the 009: I also hear that it's more "technical" sound than the craved 007A/007Mk1, and IMHO inferior to the 009 on the other hand, so it's a compromise. But a very good one.
  
 Also, there was a 007 earpad mod described there, made by a Russian guy, and backed up by very revealing measurement data. Based on the picture, the new pads were very much like the 009 pads. This reinforces my findings that the 009 pads do wonders on the 007, and that can be further improved by optimizing the filling.
  
 Based on all of the above, it seems like a safe thing to buy a new 007A, do the port mod and eventually get 009 pads to it through your local Stax dealer.
 Also, it seems that so far all people here liked the L700, which is quite a feat.
 I also say (and that's mainly me saying it based on the limited information that I have) that the 007 Mk1 is at least as good a performer and subject to the pad mods as the new 007A.


----------



## Pale Rider

I applaud your efforts to make sense of this mess. I tried as well several months back when I embarked on my return to electrostatics. I gave up. Got as close as I could to an original 007 in the used market, bought a current 007 from Stax Japan direct, and an 009 domestically here in the US. I haven't modded any of them yet. But I love them all. Overall, i find the 009 most engaging.


----------



## rgs9200m

I did what you did Zolkis and also followed Spritzer's advice to get the latest (and greatest?) 007 and I'm completely happy with my decision. There is a nice robustness to the new version and it digs deep into details, even the bass details. It also is more tolerant of tipped up recordings or sources than the 009. The 009 does have a little more liquidity with highs that is very nice when everything in the path leading to it lines up, and therefore it is worthwhile having both the 007 and 009 if you can swing it. But there is nothing about the 007 that says something is missing, or that it's not getting to bottom of detail retrieval. (For the record, I owned the original SR007 from 1999 to 2008 with a Stax 007t amp.)
 I have to say that, if forced to choose, I'd keep the SR007.


----------



## Rhamnetin

zolkis said:


> OK, I have read the thread from March '15 onwards, and I attempt an unqualified summary.
> 
> Opinions are lacking proper comparison there, but I trust Spritzer, so looks like the 007A ordered from Japan is a safe bet, and they call it the 007 Mk2.9.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Spritzer's "MK2.9" is the black MK2, and he indicated that the SR-007A from Japan would likely be the same (the newest model) but he couldn't confirm this.  However as of March 2015, opinions for the SR-007MK2 and SR-007A seem consistent with each other, with most agreeing that they're better than the previous SR-007MK2 and SR-007A variants.
  
 I'm awaiting an SR-007A and curious as to how it will sound.  I never heard any other MK2 or A variant, and I've only rather briefly listened to an SR-007MK1 before.  But I'm thorough with my evaluations and I'm going to keep a close eye on bass extension, mid bass accentuation, and treble energy (the mellowness).


----------



## edstrelow

I find it interesting that the 007 mk1 (some versions at least) is now held up as a great phone. I remember that when it first came out it was widely criticized as too dark. As regards the port mod, I did try this on the 007A and found it made the bass far too prominent and boomy and I quickly removed it. 

What the 007 needs as do.most phones is mechanical damping with substances like sorbothane. Have a look at my thread. Sennheiser was been doing this on the HD800 for some time, installing damping material in the headband. This is curiously enough how I started on the 007A which has a similar band construction, where a metal band is tightly fastened to earcups. From what I can tell, the new Sennheiser superphone has a similar construction and I would be surprised if it is not damped. Grado has started using a proprietary polycarbonate in the construction of its phones, and which is supposed to have the same damping benefits. 

However the 007A needs damping in the earcups and you can see my solution in my damping thread.

Unfortunately the entire Stax line (as is true of most other phones) is obsolete because of its failure to address the damping problem. Fortunately the sorb mods can be pretty effective in getting around this.


----------



## paradoxper

Holy hell you harp more about sorbothane than Eric does about AudioValve. WE get it.


----------



## bmichels

pale rider said:


> I applaud your efforts to make sense of this mess. I tried as well several months back when I embarked on my return to electrostatics. I gave up. Got as close as I could to an original 007 in the used market, bought a current 007 from Stax Japan direct, and an 009 domestically here in the US. I haven't modded any of them yet. But I love them all. Overall, i find the 009 most engaging.




What Amp are you using wIth your SR009 ?


----------



## Quixote79

paradoxper said:


> Holy hell you harp more about sorbothane than Eric does about AudioValve. WE get it.


 

 if you and Eric have trouble getting sorbothane where you are I can recommend this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sorbothane-Sheet-100-mm-x-100-mm-x-3-00-mm-for-Enhanced-Sound-Isolation-/300790118488?hash=item46087cf858:g:uGoAAOxyA4ZRNNvE
 it is sorbothane for enhanced sound, so one might be able to use larger pieces for further improvement also. (if you have not seen that most recommend using smaller pieces)


----------



## Quixote79

rhamnetin said:


> Spritzer's "MK2.9" is the black MK2, and he indicated that the SR-007A from Japan would likely be the same (the newest model) but he couldn't confirm this.  However as of March 2015, opinions for the SR-007MK2 and SR-007A seem consistent with each other, with most agreeing that they're better than the previous SR-007MK2 and SR-007A variants.
> 
> I'm awaiting an SR-007A and curious as to how it will sound.  I never heard any other MK2 or A variant, and I've only rather briefly listened to an SR-007MK1 before.  But I'm thorough with my evaluations and I'm going to keep a close eye on bass extension, mid bass accentuation, and treble energy (the mellowness).


 
 So for getting the greatest 007 today one should opt for the black rather than one from PJ?


----------



## Michgelsen

Shouldn't matter. Stax is not going to have different production lines for the drivers based on color of the housing.


----------



## Pale Rider

bmichels said:


> What Amp are you using wIth your SR009 ?


 

 Mjolnir Audio KGSSHV Carbon Mini. I tend to listen to both the 007s on a full size Carbon.


----------



## bmichels

pale rider said:


> Mjolnir Audio KGSSHV Carbon Mini. I tend to listen to both the 007s on a full size Carbon.


 
  
 VERY interesting.  The Carbon is indeed my alternative choice to the BHSE.  Any comment between those 2 amps ? Why did you choosed The Carbon instead of BHSE ?


----------



## Quixote79

bmichels said:


> VERY interesting.  The Carbon is indeed my alternative choice to the BHSE.  Any comment between those 2 amps ? Why did you choosed The Carbon instead of BHSE ?


 

 Yes, interesting question, and why not the KGSShv offboard that is superior to both?


----------



## Pale Rider

quixote79 said:


> if you and Eric have trouble getting sorbothane where you are I can recommend this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sorbothane-Sheet-100-mm-x-100-mm-x-3-00-mm-for-Enhanced-Sound-Isolation-/300790118488?hash=item46087cf858:g:uGoAAOxyA4ZRNNvE
> it is sorbothane for enhanced sound, so one might be able to use larger pieces for further improvement also. (if you have not seen that most recommend using smaller pieces)


 

 There are many places to buy Sorbothane. Try Amazon. When I was deep into car audio, I used loads of Sorbothane throughout the vehicles I worked on; though it was not a cure-all, it could make quite a difference. Still, the notion that the entire Stax line, along with most other headphones, is "obsolete" for lack of a specific kind of damping, seems a bit of an exaggeration to me. I have yet to play with Sorbothane or other damping material on my cans, but the fact that it might help suggests something quite different from obsolescence to me.


----------



## Quixote79

pale rider said:


> There are many places to buy Sorbothane. Try Amazon. When I was deep into car audio, I used loads of Sorbothane throughout the vehicles I worked on; though it was not a cure-all, it could make quite a difference. Still, the notion that the entire Stax line, along with most other headphones, is "obsolete" for lack of a specific kind of damping, seems a bit of an exaggeration to me. I have yet to play with Sorbothane or other damping material on my cans, but the fact that it might help suggests something quite different from obsolescence to me.


 

 Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated.
 I have not tried Amazon, but since the sorbothane from eBay is especially made for enhancing audio I guess it is more appropriate for this use.


----------



## rgs9200m

edstrelow said:


> Grado has started using a proprietary polycarbonate in the construction of its phones, and which is supposed to have the same damping benefits.
> 
> However the 007A needs damping in the earcups and you can see my solution in my damping thread.
> 
> Unfortunately the entire Stax line (as is true of most other phones) is obsolete because of its failure to address the damping problem.


 
 What is this about Grado? I now have a PS1000e and I am surprised and almost shocked at how good they are, sweet and full of impact and non-fatiguing, especially in the upper-mid vocals where digital glare bothers me.
 (And this is after really not liking the old PS1000 as too boomy and shrill an unrefined and having issues with other older Grados).
 I have been wondering why this is true and read little about it, so this is news to me, so thanks for this info.
 The PS1000e is right up there with the best headphones of any type as I hear them.


----------



## joseph69

quixote79 said:


> So for getting the greatest 007 today one should opt for the black rather than one from PJ?


 
 The black SR-007MK2 is U.S. and the silver SR-007A (MKll) is from Japan…no difference in sound only cosmetics.


----------



## Quixote79

rgs9200m said:


> What is this about Grado? I now have a PS1000e and I am surprised and almost shocked at how good they are, sweet and full of impact and non-fatiguing, especially in the upper-mid vocals where digital glare bothers me.
> (And this is after really not liking the old PS1000 as too boomy and shrill an unrefined and having issues with other older Grados).
> I have been wondering why this is and read little about it, so this is news to me, so thanks for this info.
> The PS1000e is right up there with the best headphones of any type as I hear them.


 

 How would you rank them in comparison to Stax?


----------



## astrostar59

quixote79 said:


> So for getting the greatest 007 today one should opt for the black rather than one from PJ?


 

 I think he quoted that either the current Black 007 or the 007A silver from PJ is the same.


----------



## Quixote79

astrostar59 said:


> I think he quoted that either the current Black 007 or the 007A silver from PJ is the same.


 

 I read it as Spitzer said the Black 007 is the best ever 007 and he still has not heard the silver one from PJ


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> I think he quoted that either the current Black 007 or the 007A silver from PJ is the same.


 
 Yes, they are.


----------



## astrostar59

quixote79 said:


> Yes, interesting question, and why not the KGSShv offboard that is superior to both?


 

 That is incorrect. The off-board KGSShv is not reported to be better than the BHSE or Carbon. The KGSShv Sanyo off-board to some sounds nicer than some of the minis or other KGSShv versions however.


----------



## zolkis

One of the things I learned during speaker building was the under- and overestimation of the need of damping. The problem to solve is to damp the right frequency range with the right damping characteristics, which usually is a theoretical goal. I noticed the best sounding cabinets were the ones needing the least amount of damping. Only a little, of the right material, on the right place. 
  
 This has proved true also for headphones, both in damping the enclosures, and the material of the ear pads and their filling. The right type of damping in the right place can do wonders. However, they will never fix a dead sound, only  an existing resonance or ringing. 
  
 In the case of the 007, one problem was the dark and somewhat dull sound, the other was the ringing of the head bands and to lesser extent, the enclosure. In my opinion wool felt of different density and making usually has better damping properties than Sorbothane, though the latter probably gives more reproducible and more consistent results.
  
 I can also understand why people who experience considerable improvement with a certain cheap mods feel like they are not heard (a.k.a. why everybody is not trying this?), while others spend incredible amount of money on things that cause less change, and as a consequence they post it again and again (like me the use of 009 pads on the 007). I think that is fine, people do need to be reminded, and I won't throw the stone . But it's also good to tell when enough is enough .
  
_> if you and Eric have trouble getting sorbothane _
  
 This made my day


----------



## rgs9200m

The Stax flagships and the PS1000e excel in different areas, and it's hard to say which is better. There is still some more detail in the Stax, but the Grado delivers more profound bass and puts images in their own envelope and space better, with more air and overall spaciousness, and most of all, the Grado vocals have an inviting, soothing, full 3d rich texture that just draws me in to concentrate and listen intently; very intoxicating and almost unique in the headphone world, kind of like something you hear with tube amplification. I think the Grado may have as much detail and speed as the SR007 (but I need to listen more carefully to make sure here; it's mainly that, when listening to the Grados, it doesn't make me think that any more detail, plankton, or deep texture is missing to any degree, as I just lean into them and can't put them down).


----------



## Pale Rider

quixote79 said:


> Yes, interesting question, and why not the KGSShv offboard that is superior to both?


 
  
 Simple reasons really: (1) wait time for a BHSE; (2) my decision in general to move away from tubes [and all the drama that goes with them, some of which is admittedly enjoyable]. 
 I had heard a BHSE at a headphone meet previously, and liked it more than the alternatives I had heard. When I decided to get into electrostatics again, I started there. As I read through everything, and considered the various design objectives, the KGSSHV made a lot of sense to me as a reasonable solid-state alternative to the BHSE. Spritzer had a full-size Carbon available, so I bought it. When I decided I wanted another, in this case Mini, I snagged one of those.


bmichels said:


> VERY interesting.  The Carbon is indeed my alternative choice to the BHSE.  Any comment between those 2 amps ? Why did you choosed The Carbon instead of BHSE ?


 
  
 Well, see above to some degree. Availability was a big driver of my decision; as many of you know, these amps don't grow on trees, and I am past the build phase of my life. And while there might be technical reasons to prefer the off board design, I would ask [respectfully], "says who?" to the notion that the unit is sonically "superior to both." I would like to hear both side-by-side, but have not had that opportunity. Yet.


----------



## Pale Rider

quixote79 said:


> Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated.
> I have not tried Amazon, but since the sorbothane from eBay is especially made for enhancing audio I guess it is more appropriate for this use.


 

 Not sure why you would think one is more appropriate than another for audio use, just because some guy on eBay lists :audio" in his auction title. Unless it is somehow counterfeited, your primary variability is hardness [duro] and form factor. Otherwise, it's Sorbothane, and you buy how much you want in the size, thickness, and duro you want. Hopefully, for the best total price you can get. Cheers!


----------



## comzee

pale rider said:


> to the notion that the unit is sonically "superior to both." I would like to hear both side-by-side, but have not had that opportunity. Yet.


 
@Quixote79 is just confused, the Carbon is off-board by design already. Carbon is the best Gilmore design available to the public currently.


----------



## edstrelow

rgs9200m said:


> What is this about Grado? I now have a PS1000e and I am surprised and almost shocked at how good they are, sweet and full of impact and non-fatiguing, especially in the upper-mid vocals where digital glare bothers me.
> (And this is after really not liking the old PS1000 as too boomy and shrill an unrefined and having issues with other older Grados).
> I have been wondering why this is true and read little about it, so this is news to me, so thanks for this info.
> The PS1000e is right up there with the best headphones of any type as I hear them.


 
 What you describe is what I and others report from adding sorbothane to existing headphones. Grado is just trying a different tack, using their own proprietary polycarbonate.  Apparently it works well.
  
 This is why I say that Stax and most other phones are obsolete. We now have some understanding of the need for headphones to be damped.  As I understand the physics, the drivers transmit energy into the surrounding cups, not so much through the air, but as the "equal and opposite" energy that Newton talked about centuries ago.  It is not easy to dampen this energy and until fairly recently we did not have substances like sorbothane or Grado's polycarbonate to do it. So the problem was unsolvable and mostly ignored. 
  
 I still think Stax puts out great phones,  but they would be much greater if the earcups were properly damped. These effects are not small.


----------



## rgs9200m

I used to have Von Schweikert speakers and they always had very natural upper mids, vocals and highs, again (as I mentioned with the PS1000e), nicely detailed and extended but not shrill and good with digital.
 Von Schweikert mentioned to me that they did concentrate on the damping they used (I think it was cellulose).


----------



## mulveling

quixote79 said:


> if you and Eric have trouble getting sorbothane where you are I can recommend this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sorbothane-Sheet-100-mm-x-100-mm-x-3-00-mm-for-Enhanced-Sound-Isolation-/300790118488?hash=item46087cf858:g:uGoAAOxyA4ZRNNvE
> it is sorbothane for enhanced sound, so one might be able to use larger pieces for further improvement also. (if you have not seen that most recommend using smaller pieces)


 
 You broke my humor sensor. I'm not sure if this response is hilarious or not.


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> That is incorrect. The off-board KGSShv is not reported to be better than the BHSE or Carbon. The KGSShv Sanyo off-board to some sounds nicer than some of the minis or other KGSShv versions however.


 
 Agree. Not sure where anyone would get those ideas. Lately there's been a lot of bad/incorrect information getting thrown about carelessly.


----------



## bearFNF

Yes, it seems to me like there's a lot of people quoting and misquoting. We all need to stick to our first hand experience instead of trying to parrot what other people are saying. IMHO


----------



## Pale Rider

comzee said:


> @Quixote79 is just confused, the Carbon is off-board by design already. Carbon is the best Gilmore design available to the public currently.


 

 Thans for that clarification. Makes more sense to me now, and in light of discussions over in the other forum. I remain very pleased with the Carbon and Carbon mini.


----------



## edstrelow

mulveling said:


> You broke my humor sensor. I'm not sure if this response is hilarious or not.



What I find hilarious is discovering that cheap phones properly damped, outperform much more expensive ones. However the humor goes sour if you have invested an arm and a leg in phones and equipment upgrades before you realize this.


----------



## HemiSam

This thread just keeps getting better.....
  
  




  
 HS


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Maybe they like their product the way they are?


----------



## Currawong

Back on topic please. Indeed people wishing to discuss the mods should keep it to the thread about it.


----------



## DolphinG

I've been working on a Lambda Nova Basic that seldom shows noise on left driver.
 I managed to open left driver and get rid of the noise, but I lost anti-dust (or moisture) material that covers electrodes and diaphragm.
 Is there anyone who changed this super-thin material to other material?
 Or is there any idea about its thickness or what is it made from?


----------



## bmichels

After 3 years of hesitations, I JUST placed my deposit for my BHSE 5 minutes ago.  
  
 Now....the looooong wait start 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I will use it with the SR009 that impressed me so much at CanJam London last year....
  
 This was an expensive week:  Purchase of a HE-X yesterday ( YES I finally decided to kept the HE-X demo unit since I like it as much as the HE-1000: less detailled than the HE1000 but more relax) and deposit for BHSE today


----------



## empetus

Having been rolling Stax amps and found the cleanest and best Stax amp is SRM-252S with the Plixir symmetrical power supply.
  
 This amp was best with vintage Lambdas and SR-009.The 252s is ultra clean with wide soundstage and excellent dynamics with Plixir, it's just unbelievable , i compared it with 727 and 353x.


----------



## joseph69

bmichels said:


> After 3 years of hesitations, I JUST placed my deposit for my BHSE 5 minutes ago.
> 
> Now....the looooong wait start
> 
> ...


 
 Congratulations on both of your purchases.
 Were any orders left for the current batch #4 (which I'm waiting on) or are you on the queue for batch #5 which will be the last BHSE with a separate power supply being it is too long of a process to build and according to Justin the BHSE amp/power supply will be intergrated after batch #5?


----------



## richard51

empetus said:


> Having been rolling Stax amps and found the cleanest and best Stax amp is SRM-252S with the Plixir symmetrical power supply.
> 
> This amp was best with vintage Lambdas and SR-009.The 252s is ultra clean with wide soundstage and excellent dynamics with Plixir, it's just unbelievable , i compared it with 727 and 353x.


 

 i have this srm 252s ... It is interesting to know that.... i have no comparison point... by the way i am curious of this plixir? was model is it of plixir and what is the price? have you compared to some other power supply? there is an enormous difference i imagine with the standard power supply of the Stax amp ....thanks


----------



## zolkis

empetus said:


> Having been rolling Stax amps and found the cleanest and best Stax amp is SRM-252S with the Plixir symmetrical power supply.
> 
> This amp was best with vintage Lambdas and SR-009.The 252s is ultra clean with wide soundstage and excellent dynamics with Plixir, it's just unbelievable , i compared it with 727 and 353x.


 
  
 I wonder how would the 323S or 353X sound with a Plixir power supply... or for that matter, a new fully regulated power supply.


----------



## bmichels

joseph69 said:


> Congratulations on both of your purchases.
> Were any orders left for the current batch #4 (which I'm waiting on) or are you on the queue for batch #5 which will be the last BHSE with a separate power supply being it is too long of a process to build and according to Justin the BHSE amp/power supply will be intergrated after batch #5?


 
  
 Thanks.
  
 I know that Batch N°5 will be the last with the separate PSU.  This was part of the decision to jump.  I really wanted to have the "real thing".
  
 I do not know if I am batch 4 or 5.  I wait now for Justin to come back to me with this info and with the choice for colour and volume pot.


----------



## joseph69

bmichels said:


> Thanks.
> I know that Batch N°5 will be the last with the separate PSU.  This was part of the decision to jump.  I really wanted to have the "real thing".
> I do not know if I am batch 4 or 5.  I wait now for Justin to come back to me with this info and with the choice for colour and volume pot.


----------



## astrostar59

zolkis said:


> I wonder how would the 323S or 353X sound with a Plixir power supply... or for that matter, a new fully regulated power supply.


 

 I run my KGSShv and my DAC and Mac Mini server out of the same regenerated power supply. It makes a BIG difference.


----------



## catspaw

I am waiting for my paycheck this month to get a 2170+507 pads (and I intend to mod them).
 It should do good with my Schiit bifrost multibit.
  
 Cant wait!


----------



## Pokemonn

I upgraded my DAC to luxman DA-200 DAC which has tricle down tech from $5000 luxman CDP DAC.
 now Stax SR-009 sounds f!!!!!! great! sound so f!!!!!! analogue...wow...lol
 I noticed my Hugo didn't cut it for 009. I didn't expected this...wow...SR-009 demand so much.


----------



## bmichels

pokemonn said:


> I upgraded my DAC to luxman DA-200 DAC which has tricle down tech from $5000 luxman CDP DAC.
> now Stax SR-009 sounds f!!!!!! great! sound so f!!!!!! analogue...wow...lol
> I noticed my Hugo didn't cut it for 009. I didn't expected this...wow...SR-009 demand so much.




Looks like I will really now need to upgrade my Hugo.... Since I just bought a BHSE. 

May I ask what amp are you using with your Sr009 ?


----------



## Pokemonn

bmichels said:


> Looks like I will really now need to upgrade my Hugo.... Since I just bought a BHSE.
> 
> May I ask what amp are you using with your Sr009 ?


 

 I am currently using SRM717 for 009. its temporary rig. i also want to upgrade amp too. 
 Hugo is good amp/dac as a portable not as full size desktop dac IMO.
 DA-200 sounded awful first few hours. needs warmup. now its OK. needs some tweaks on AC power line etc too.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

See you in 2018 belgian chap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







  
 Ali


----------



## wink

bmichels said:


> Looks like I will really now need to* upgrade my Hugo.... *Since I just bought a BHSE.


 
 Get the Yggdrasil... repeat.....  Get the YGGDRASIL     repeat......  GET THE *YGGDRASIL   *  ad hoc*, ad nauseum, ad infinitum........   !!!!!!*


----------



## Rossliew

or the DAVE...


----------



## nepherte

You might be interested in Arnaud's setup as well.


----------



## wink

rossliew said:


> or the DAVE...


 

 Dave got the YGGDRASIL....


----------



## astrostar59

Hey, over at the Sennheiser Orphius II thread things are getting interesting. I read a good impression from an enthusiast who owns the Abyss at he reckons he prefers that phone over the Orpheus II. One odd behaviour was he reference to the vibration in the frames and also the less than black background (because of the tubes?). I can feel slight vibes in my 009 driver surrounds if I hold them on bass heavy tracks, but it doesn't transfer to my head or ears and does not affect the sound IMO.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/666765/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread/3735#post_12364442
  
 This is exciting to me, as it may show the Stax 009 and / or the Abyss driven by a top amp and DAC is indeed at the top of what is possible. Does this make me stop reading about other high end gear? Probably not. But it may stop me wanting anything better if indeed 'better' is not there to be had. Personally I think I need to read more responses from users of 009s and the Abyss to get a real handle on this subject. And the ultimate would be to hear the Orpheus II obviously. Maybe it will be at the next CanJam if that comes to London this year?


----------



## astrostar59

Damb, do I want it to be better than say the 009s and a Carbon, BHSE or T2? Maybe I do. But if it isn't, well that is good too. means I am not so far from the top of what is possible / available in headphone design.


----------



## Quixote79

astrostar59 said:


> Damb, do I want it to be better than say the 009s and a Carbon, BHSE or T2? Maybe I do. But if it isn't, well that is good too. means I am not so far from the top of what is possible / available in headphone design.


 

 based on you highly recommending the KGSShv I actually pulled the trigger on one last week, why have you changed your mind?


----------



## astrostar59

quixote79 said:


> based on you highly recommending the KGSShv I actually pulled the trigger on one last week, why have you changed your mind?


 

 As I told you, the KGSShv Sanyo Off-board IMO is the best SS amplifier I have heard for the 009s / 007s.
 When you first asked my advice you were looking at Stax amps. Now you seem to be looking (and have the budget) for the best exotica. So your situation and question has changed.
  
 A KGSShv is also cheaper and easier to purchase than a BHSE (potential time to build a BHSE). And also as I have stated any times, my KGSShv in some areas IMO beats the BHSE, but not all areas.
  
 I have read though not heard it yet, that a KGSShv Carbon surpasses the KGSShv, though it is again  more expensive and quite new so less are around second hand or built.
  
 Getting a T2 is almost impossible and extremely costly / risky IMO.
  
 Thus my advice to you stands. To back this up I own 2 x KGSShv Sanyo off-boards both built by headinclouds.


----------



## Quixote79

astrostar59 said:


> As I told you, the KGSShv Sanyo Off-board IMO is the best SS amplifier I have heard for the 009s / 007s.
> When you first asked my advice you were looking at Stax amps. Now you seem to be looking (and have the budget) for the best exotica. So your situation and question has changed.
> 
> A KGSShv is also cheaper and easier to purchase than a BHSE (potential time to build a BHSE). And also as I have stated any times, my KGSShv in some areas IMO beats the BHSE, but not all areas.
> ...


 

 well, I told you from the start that I had been offered a kgsshv + a 007 mkii at a very good price. So my situation nor question has changed.
 The only thing that has changed is that I pulled the trigger and will soon be able to replace my 006t+404 with a kgsshv+007mkii.
 Although it is built by spitzer and thus a lower build quality as you have explained, it looks fine from the pics.
  
 Just don't understand why you are suddenly praising the carbon without having even heard it yet ... makes no sense to me


----------



## catspaw

astrostar59 said:


> Hey, over at the Sennheiser Orphius II thread things are getting interesting. I read a good impression from an enthusiast who owns the Abyss at he reckons he prefers that phone over the Orpheus II. One odd behaviour was he reference to the vibration in the frames and also the less than black background (because of the tubes?). I can feel slight vibes in my 009 driver surrounds if I hold them on bass heavy tracks, but it doesn't transfer to my head or ears and does not affect the sound IMO.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/666765/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread/3735#post_12364442
> 
> This is exciting to me, as it may show the Stax 009 and / or the Abyss driven by a top amp and DAC is indeed at the top of what is possible. Does this make me stop reading about other high end gear? Probably not. But it may stop me wanting anything better if indeed 'better' is not there to be had. Personally I think I need to read more responses from users of 009s and the Abyss to get a real handle on this subject. And the ultimate would be to hear the Orpheus II obviously. Maybe it will be at the next CanJam if that comes to London this year?


 
 There is a point in this hobby when reality sets in (a.k.a. you notice you are spending so much money and you still use the cheaper headphones too).
  
 For me, that is a lot sooner than I expected. Im perfectly happy with my HE-400 except that I need something lighter. In that case I decided to get something "slightly" better and call it a day.
  
 For me that will be a Stax 207 with 507 pads for neutrality (or a hd800 if getting the Stax is too hard) and something like the oppo pm3 or audeze sine for "fun" (perhaps a HE-400i).


----------



## astrostar59

quixote79 said:


> well, I told you from the start that I had been offered a kgsshv + a 007 mkii at a very good price. So my situation nor question has changed.
> The only thing that has changed is that I pulled the trigger and will soon be able to replace my 006t+404 with a kgsshv+007mkii.
> Although it is built by spitzer and thus a lower build quality as you have explained, it looks fine from the pics.
> 
> Just don't understand why you are suddenly praising the carbon without having even heard it yet ... makes no sense to me


 

 I have read many reviews of the Carbon, and all those (many also have a KGSShv) say it is a step up. That step up might be small, but it may be worth the extra cost. I won't know for sure until I have one to hear for myself however.
  
 I would enjoy your KGSShv from Birgir, it will be magical. To get better than that you will need to spend more or find a builder.


----------



## arnaud

^
The HD600 do that to me out of cheap fostex usb controller .


----------



## Pale Rider

quixote79 said:


> Although it is built by spitzer and thus a lower build quality as you have explained, it looks fine from the pics.



You seriously believe that? I have two Carbons by Birgir and a Sanyo offboard by headinclouds on the way. The notion that spritzer's build quality is inferior is a reflection on something here, and it's not spritzer.


----------



## jjacq

I just placed an order for the L700 + an SRD7 modded to accept pro bias. I'm really excited though I don't know what to expect because this is my first time owning electrostats. Does anyone have tips on the maintenance? I have bought a dust cover as well.


----------



## Tinkerer

jjacq said:


> I just placed an order for the L700 + an SRD7 modded to accept pro bias. I'm really excited though I don't know what to expect because this is my first time owning electrostats. Does anyone have tips on the maintenance? I have bought a dust cover as well.


 

 They really don't need maintenance. Just keep the dust off them and don't crank them up so loud that you burn through the diaphragm.


----------



## Quixote79

pale rider said:


> You seriously believe that? I have two Carbons by Birgir and a Sanyo offboard by headinclouds on the way. The notion that spritzer's build quality is inferior is a reflection on something here, and it's not spritzer.


 
 Astrostar59 says the build quality of Headinclouds is superior and also that the kgsshv he has is almost as good as the BHSE and even better in some areas - maybe more a statement that Astrostar59 is happy about what he got and wants others to choose the same.
 Turned out that the advice was also pointing and pushing towards paraboxers classified.


----------



## edstrelow

jjacq said:


> I just placed an order for the L700 + an SRD7 modded to accept pro bias. I'm really excited though I don't know what to expect because this is my first time owning electrostats. Does anyone have tips on the maintenance? I have bought a dust cover as well.



 Stax are pretty durable, there are lots of 30 year old sets still running well. Don't get them wet or drive them to excessive levels which is I think easier to do with a transformer than a headphone amplifier.

Until recently, I would have said forget the transformer and go for an amp. However recently richard51 damped an old SR5 low bias set with sorbothane. (See my thread) I followed his lead and found that my 5's sounded very good sorbed, and better through their old SRD6 transformer than an SRM1Mk2 amplifier, as long as I didn't use the mains to charge the bias. The sound became somewhat lifeless when the mains bias was used. 

However, the transformer again sounded good when I damped the bottom side with small pieces of sorbothane. I suspect the mains bias system generates a lot of vibration which causes microphonics in the rest of the transformer. Possibly the SRD7 is different, but I doubt it. Vibrational problems have been overlooked for a long time, both the sonic vibrations in speaker cabinets as well as the corresponding ones in headphone earcups. Audio shops have been selling sorbothane footers for components for a long time, but my personal experience is that small pieces glued to the case work much better.


----------



## soren_brix

edstrelow said:


> Stax are pretty durable, there are lots of 30 year old sets still running well. Don't get them wet or drive them to excessive levels which is I think easier to do with a transformer than a headphone amplifier.
> 
> Until recently, I would have said forget the transformer and go for an amp. However recently richard51 damped an old SR5 low bias set with sorbothane. (See my thread) I followed his lead and found that my 5's sounded very good sorbed, and better through their old SRD6 transformer than an SRM1Mk2 amplifier, as long as I didn't use the mains to charge the bias. The sound became somewhat lifeless when the mains bias was used.
> 
> However, the transformer again sounded good when I damped the bottom side with small pieces of sorbothane. I suspect the mains bias system generates a lot of vibration which causes microphonics in the rest of the transformer. Possibly the SRD7 is different, but I doubt it. Vibrational problems have been overlooked for a long time, both the sonic vibrations in speaker cabinets as well as the corresponding ones in headphone earcups. Audio shops have been selling sorbothane footers for components for a long time, but my personal experience is that small pieces glued to the case work much better.


 
  
 What excatly does this mean: "and better through their old SRD6 transformer than an SRM1Mk2 amplifier, as long as I didn't use the mains to charge the bias" ? The SRD-6 is a self bias unit as far as I remember?
  
 "I suspect the mains bias system generates a lot of vibration which causes microphonics in the rest of the transformer", can you please explain that in more detail?


----------



## Pokemonn

Did you know that Stax HQ use Luxman universal player DU-50(discontinued) as source for their audition room for customers?
 I think its not coincidence. I found that Luxman DA-200 source match Stax rig very well.
  
 sorry below link is written in japanese, scroll down to botton, you can see "LUXMAN" and "DU-50",
 http://www.stax.co.jp/shop-listening.html


----------



## Pale Rider

quixote79 said:


> Astrostar59 says the build quality of Headinclouds is superior and also that the kgsshv he has is almost as good as the BHSE and even better in some areas - maybe more a statement that Astrostar59 is happy about what he got and wants others to choose the same.
> Turned out that the advice was also pointing and pushing towards paraboxers classified.



I believe that headinclouds' build quality is highly regarded, as is spritzer's. But tomorrow, I should be able to put them side-by-side and see how they compare.


----------



## astrostar59

quixote79 said:


> Astrostar59 says the build quality of Headinclouds is superior and also that the kgsshv he has is almost as good as the BHSE and even better in some areas - maybe more a statement that Astrostar59 is happy about what he got and wants others to choose the same.
> Turned out that the advice was also pointing and pushing towards paraboxers classified.


 

*Never said that. *I talked to Quixote79 on *PM* saying *don't quote my opinions *in personal advice to him.* *Unfortunately he has ignored that and quoted anyway, and not even quoted what I actually said or the context of it.
  
 This is what I told him privately which now has to be in the open due to a break of trust between me and him apparently:
  


> I won't say negatives about Spritzers amps, but you can make up your mind looking at the casework of the 2 builders...


 
  
 What I was saying is IMO the _casework_ of headinclouds amplifier builds is first rate, i.e. aesthetics. I am not saying that Birgirs internals and PCB works isn't first class, far from it. So please lets put that to bed right now before this gets exaggerated even more and far from beyond the truth. Birgir is a pioneer of the art and I have never heard anything negative about his builds. I was in fact going to buy one of Birgirs KGSShv's but bought from headinclouds as I could pick it up and I avoided the VAT and import from Iceland. Both of these guys are a credit to the Stat community IMO.


----------



## Pale Rider

astrostar59 said:


> <SNIP>
> Both of these guys are a credit to the Stat community IMO.
> <SNIP>


 
 Agreed. I am looking forward to having both in my home.


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> *Never said that. *I talked to Quixote79 on *PM* saying *don't quote my opinions *in personal advice to him.* *Unfortunately he has ignored that and quoted anyway, and not even quoted what I actually said or the context of it.
> 
> This is what I told him privately which now has to be in the open due to a break of trust between me and him apparently:
> 
> ...


 
 Astrostar -- I wouldn't take this too seriously, man. At this point it's clear he's either a troll or a severely challenged individual (or both).
  
 So hey -- anyone nostalgic for the Music Alchemist days yet?


----------



## HemiSam

LOL.  Couldn't agree more, mulveling.  A troll stirring the pot unnecessarily, and after he asked for and received input he was unwilling to go work out for himself.  Shame to litter the thread with that kind of material.
  
 My personal observation is I have found both Geoff and Birgir extremely helpful resources and true champions of the Stax community.  I've learned a lot from both of them and the quality of their work is impressive to say the least.  I enjoyed one of Geoff's KGST builds just last night, powering my 007A's.
  
 I've been threatening a Lambda acquisition, but have stalled as I'm not big on "bright".  Thinking perhaps an L700 or an older Lambda LE might work.  Shying away from the 009's at the moment.
  
 HS


----------



## Tinkerer

hemisam said:


> I've been threatening a Lambda acquisition, but have stalled as I'm not big on "bright".  Thinking perhaps an L700 or an older Lambda LE might work.  Shying away from the 009's at the moment.
> 
> HS


 
  
 The "not-bright" lambdas have generally been considered to be the Nova Signature, the Normal Bias, and the 207 and they're usually not too pricey. I had a 207 once, and while it was amazing for the price my 007 Mk I just does everything better so I've never really been tempted to go back except maybe to have a guinea pig for testing new amps.


----------



## HemiSam

tinkerer said:


> The "not-bright" lambdas have generally been considered to be the Nova Signature, the Normal Bias, and the 207 and they're usually not too pricey. I had a 207 once, and while it was amazing for the price my 007 Mk I just does everything better so I've never really been tempted to go back except maybe to have a guinea pig for testing new amps.


 
  
 Thanks, Tinkerer.  The advice I received was the LE and the Signature.  Also, I've read and been told the 207's are very good for what they are, an entry level set, and punch above there weight class.  Shame they come packaged with the amp in Japan, but I've also read and been informed the amp is very good for what it is.
  
 HS


----------



## jjacq

edstrelow said:


> Stax are pretty durable, there are lots of 30 year old sets still running well. Don't get them wet or drive them to excessive levels which is I think easier to do with a transformer than a headphone amplifier.
> 
> Until recently, I would have said forget the transformer and go for an amp. However recently richard51 damped an old SR5 low bias set with sorbothane. (See my thread) I followed his lead and found that my 5's sounded very good sorbed, and better through their old SRD6 transformer than an SRM1Mk2 amplifier, as long as I didn't use the mains to charge the bias. The sound became somewhat lifeless when the mains bias was used.
> 
> However, the transformer again sounded good when I damped the bottom side with small pieces of sorbothane. I suspect the mains bias system generates a lot of vibration which causes microphonics in the rest of the transformer. Possibly the SRD7 is different, but I doubt it. Vibrational problems have been overlooked for a long time, both the sonic vibrations in speaker cabinets as well as the corresponding ones in headphone earcups. Audio shops have been selling sorbothane footers for components for a long time, but my personal experience is that small pieces glued to the case work much better.


 

 Thank you for the response, does the vibration cause any issues with the headphones when used for a long time? I would like to get an amplifier though, my funds are drained right now and I feel like all the decent amps would mean spending $1000+ or so unless you can cite to me otherwise?


----------



## zolkis

hemisam said:


> I've been threatening a Lambda acquisition, but have stalled as I'm not big on "bright".  Thinking perhaps an L700 or an older Lambda LE might work.  Shying away from the 009's at the moment.


 
 Exactly: the Lambda 404 LE, or the L700. The x07 series Lambdas, and a couple of older ones have an upper midrange coloration I became allergic to. The L700 didn't strike me as having that coloration. However, as pointed out earlier, the 007 Mk1 (and likely the newer Mk2 and A) are better in smoothness, sound stage, resolving fine nuances and dynamic gradations, etc.


----------



## edstrelow

jjacq said:


> Thank you for the response, does the vibration cause any issues with the headphones when used for a long time? I would like to get an amplifier though, my funds are drained right now and I feel like all the decent amps would mean spending $1000+ or so unless you can cite to me otherwise?



Don't worry about damage here. What I am talking about is distortion. Undamped Stax phones sound very good. Properly damped Stax are better.


----------



## edstrelow

soren_brix said:


> What excatly does this mean: "and better through their old SRD6 transformer than an SRM1Mk2 amplifier, as long as I didn't use the mains to charge the bias" ? The SRD-6 is a self bias unit as far as I remember?
> 
> "I suspect the mains bias system generates a lot of vibration which causes microphonics in the rest of the transformer", can you please explain that in more detail?




My Srd6 is a mains operated unit and is not self-biased. I only know about the deleterious effects of mains biasing because it holds the bias charge well even when not plugged in and this is how I noticed that it also sounded better when not plugged in.

I am at a loss to explain some of this. I thought initially it was a problem of having a noisy vibrating mains transformer affecting the sound by microphonics. Except when I opened the unit up there is no mains transformer, rather only some kind of circuit board handles this function. I don' t know if this is true of the SRD7 too. All I can say is that my SRD6 sounds a lot better damped with sorb pieces. And better than with the SRM1Mk2. The latter observation was quite contrary to what I would have normally expected. The amp probably had a lower noise floor, but the SRD6 had better dynamics and as good, or better stereo imaging.

Looking at the Stax history site the SRD6 self-bias model came out after the mains model. Maybe this was in response to problems with it of the sort I am making.


----------



## soren_brix

mulveling said:


> So hey -- anyone nostalgic for the Music Alchemist days yet?


 
 thought being nostalgic required something to have stopped happening ...


----------



## soren_brix

edstrelow said:


> My Srd6 is a mains operated unit and is not self-biased. I only know about the deleterious effects of mains biasing because it holds the bias charge well even when not plugged in and this is how I noticed that it also sounded better when not plugged in.
> 
> I am at a loss to explain some of this. I thought initially it was a problem of having a noisy vibrating mains transformer affecting the sound by microphonics. Except when I opened the unit up there is no mains transformer, rather only some kind of circuit board handles this function. I don' t know if this is true of the SRD7 too. All I can say is that my SRD6 sounds a lot better damped with sorb pieces. And better than with the SRM1Mk2. The latter observation was quite contrary to what I would have normally expected. The amp probably had a lower noise floor, but the SRD6 had better dynamics and as good, or better stereo imaging.
> 
> Looking at the Stax history site the SRD6 self-bias model came out after the mains model. Maybe this was in response to problems with it of the sort I am making.


 
 "Except when I opened the unit up there is no mains transformer, rather only some kind of circuit board handles this function. I don' t know if this is true of the SRD7 too"; its the voltage-multiplier you see, and its the same in SRD7's
  
 Respect your experience, but not sure you're speculation is right.
 Both the SRD-6 box and the SRM-T1 amp is quite old by now, so what you experience might be down to components being old and out of adjustment.


----------



## edstrelow

soren_brix said:


> "Except when I opened the unit up there is no mains transformer, rather only some kind of circuit board handles this function. I don' t know if this is true of the SRD7 too"; its the voltage-multiplier you see, and its the same in SRD7's
> 
> Respect your experience, but not sure you're speculation is right.
> Both the SRD-6 box and the SRM-T1 amp is quite old by now, so what you experience might be down to components being old and out of adjustment.


 
  
 What needs to be explained is why mounting sorbothane fixed the sound of the SRD6.  This would not seem to be an  issue based on old components but as I say, I am not certain myself as to why it worked.  At least I have a theory as to why  sorbothane damping helps headphones.  I don't even have that as regards the transformer. 
  
 My two  SRM1 Mk2 amps are certainly old but sound very good on high bias phones. I suspect the advantage of the transformer for the SRD6 vs the amp is that it can give better voltage swing.


----------



## martin778

I decided to part with my SR4170 (006tS+SR407) system. They are in VG condition, just a small scratch on the top of the 006tS.
 The amp is upgraded with 6CG7 Cleartops. I'm asking €999 firm, shipping to EU only.


----------



## soren_brix

edstrelow said:


> What needs to be explained is why mounting sorbothane fixed the sound of the SRD6.  This would not seem to be an  issue based on old components but as I say, I am not certain myself as to why it worked.  At least I have a theory as to why  sorbothane damping helps headphones.  I don't even have that as regards the transformer.
> 
> My two  SRM1 Mk2 amps are certainly old but sound very good on high bias phones. I suspect the advantage of the transformer for the SRD6 vs the amp is that it can give better voltage swing.


 
 As far as I recall the vibration caused by a transformer is due to the core expanding/contracting in respons to the alternating magnetic field.
 If the transformer is under heavy load it might create audiable hum noise, e.g. a mains transformer humming at twice the mains frequency. That kind of vibration can be isolated using sorbothane, and thus will not impact other stuff.
 I doubt a step-up transformer is in any way under heavy load, but assuming it does actually produces vibrations how would sorbothane impact that vibration in a way that would impact the sound even slightly?
 I do respect your report of noticing a difference, but I do not understand how it can be caused by Sorbothane, nor do I understand how a pair of transformers will outperform a dedicated amp, which is why I suspect the reason is to be found somewhere else.


----------



## edstrelow

soren_brix said:


> As far as I recall the vibration caused by a transformer is due to the core expanding/contracting in respons to the alternating magnetic field.
> 
> If the transformer is under heavy load it might create audiable hum noise, e.g. a mains transformer humming at twice the mains frequency. That kind of vibration can be isolated using sorbothane, and thus will not impact other stuff.
> 
> ...



I have both set-ups and I am saying I prefer one over the other. Also note, I am talking about sorbothane damped SR5 headphones as well as damping the mains operated SRD6. I don't have a self-biased SRD6 so I can't say if damping does anything to it. I would guess not though.
I once felt like you about the inferiority of transformers for Stax and no longer do. I would tell someone who does not have the resources to spend $1-6K needed for a good amp that they can get some pretty decent performance from a transformer, especially if they are prepared to dampen the mains operated models. 
This is an empirical issue, and I would like to know if other people find benefits from damping these transformers.


----------



## jcx

> I doubt a step-up transformer is in any way under heavy load, but assuming it does actually produces vibrations how would sorbothane impact that vibration in a way that would impact the sound even slightly


 
  
 transformer core "stress" is about Volts x Time of the coil driving waveform which causes the magnetic field in the core material, so just needing high V down to 20 Hz is the usual "core limit" in audio transformers
  
 mechanical damping isolation can reduce the "sound board" effect of the transformer's core vibrations moving the sheet metal of the box, changing the sound radiation efficiency - like damping a acoustic guitar's wood panels, the guitar string still vibrates but the sound is lower


----------



## soren_brix

jcx said:


> transformer core "stress" is about Volts x Time of the coil driving waveform which causes the magnetic field in the core material, so just needing high V down to 20 Hz is the usual "core limit" in audio transformers


 
 I would suspect  the expansion/contraction to be a consequence of B which is dependent on I rather than V
  


jcx said:


> mechanical damping isolation can reduce the "sound board" effect of the transformer's core vibrations moving the sheet metal of the box, changing the sound radiation efficiency - like damping a acoustic guitar's wood panels, the guitar string still vibrates but the sound is lower


 
 the assumption being kinetic energy generated by the transformer somehow propagates to the chassie/pcb  and vice versa thus damping would result in an improvement? I doubt the energy is large enough to make this be a reality


----------



## jcx

transformer relations are fun - yes B in the core is what matters - and that is determined by the Volts x Time product in the winding which causes core excitation current through the Lm, "magnetizing Inductance", of the driven coil
  
 but that isn't directly related to coupled current between amp and load where the coupled current in the primary and secondary of the transformer cause opposed B that largely cancels in the core
  
 audio transformers, especially for electrostat drive, can have larger current flowing in the Lm at low frequency than the coupled amp to load current
  
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/alternating-current/chpt-9/mutual-inductance-and-basic-operation/
  
 read down at least to:


> At first, one might expect this secondary coil current to cause additional magnetic flux in the core. In fact, it does not. If more flux were induced in the core, it would cause more voltage to be induced voltage in the primary coil (remember that e = dΦ/dt). This cannot happen, because the primary coil’s induced voltage must remain at the same magnitude and phase in order to balance with the applied voltage, in accordance with Kirchhoff’s voltage law. Consequently, the magnetic flux in the core cannot be affected by secondary coil current. However, what _does_ change is the amount of mmf in the magnetic circuit.


 
  
  
 transformers can make acoustic noise a few ways - loose windings or core laminations can bend/flex in response to forces caused by B and B x I
  
 magnetostriction is the core material mechanically stretching/compressing in response to the internal B
  
 some transformer vibrations can be more readily coupled to the air by rigidly bolting the transformer to a "sound board" - reduce the coupling with some compliance, add some damping in the coupling and the vibration of transformer doesn't move the rest of the assembly as much
  
 transformer/chassis vibration isolation is a well know audio tweak: http://www.recordingmag.com/resources/resourceDetail/186.html
  
 the mechanical impedance mismatch of especially the magnetostriction of steel lamination vibration will be hard to damp with rubber - so the transformer won't vibrate less, but you can reduce much larger area, more efficient sound radiating panels, chassis, enclosure parts from being driven to vibrate by the transformer by compliant damping mounting


----------



## soren_brix

jcx said:


> transformers can make acoustic noise a few ways - loose windings or core laminations can bend/flex in response to forces caused by B and B x I
> 
> magnetostriction is the core material mechanically stretching/compressing in response to the internal B
> 
> ...


 
 ok, magnetostriction is caused by B, and 'load noise' from opposing mmf - both creating vibrations in core and wires.
  
 The OP, Edstrelow, have reported sound improvement from a Stax step-up unit dampened using sorbothane, thus talking about the unit itself rather.
 The article you point to talks about getting rid of acoustical noise, and as far as I can read at a glance, doesn't mention the dampening improving sound quality as such.


----------



## zolkis

I came across a site listing Stax headphones, measurements and short qualitative assessments that are pretty much in line with my subjective opinions. Probably well known here. Check inexxon dot com, Stax models menu.
  
 Based on this, the L700 is much better than the 507, and it is one of the best measuring Stax headphones, after the SR-Omega, which apart from a narrow hole around 7-8 kHz is pretty much perfect, and slightly behind the 009. Drooling after an SR-Omega .


----------



## Sorrodje

@zolkis : you mean this FR measurement for the 507 :http://www.inexxon.com/stax-modelle/stax-kopfh%C3%B6rer/sr-lambda-507/  ?  That's exemplary of how any Lambda measures when the seal is broken. It explains the "loudness" effect when you pull off a bit the earpads from you ears. 
  
 Seems the seal of the L700 is better on Inexxon's coupler. So IMO , measurements are somewhat hard to compare directly.
  
 See this FR plot ( Did it myself of my DIY measurements rig ) 
  

  
 Red one is my SR-507 with a good seal.  Mustard one is with imperfect seal.


----------



## DougD

sorrodje said:


> .....
> 
> Red one is my SR-507 with a good seal.  Mustard one is with imperfect seal.


 
  
 That is in the tip-top stratosphere of interesting and useful charts ever posted on Head-Fi. What a difference. And it's purely due to the difficulties of measuring.


----------



## zolkis

Yes, it's an eye opener. That's why one can compare only plots made with the same setup, and even then it's not sure how much the measurement setup is similar to your own environment.


----------



## Sorrodje

Some headphones are really hard beasts to measure accurately. Relative position of cup , mic and coupler can make significantly vary measured results.  Some other not that much. Depends on the design of the headphone itself.  All measuremetns should be taken with a grain of salt and we must avoid to compare measurements from different measurement rigs.


----------



## Jones Bob

sorrodje said:


> Some headphones are really hard beasts to measure accurately. Relative position of cup , mic and coupler can make significantly vary measured results.  Some other not that much. Depends on the design of the headphone itself.  All measuremetns should be taken with a grain of salt and we must avoid to compare measurements from different measurement rigs.




And how measured performance applies to perceived reproduction. Mistaking the map for the territory.


----------



## jcx

the measurement differences should give some pause as to what a person with whatever head size, bone structure, hair actually gets as sound waves at their eardrum too -  it isn't just a problem for measuring
  
 pad fit, seal, positioning of the headphones does give different sound to the eardrums by more that DBT established thresholds for reliably detecting in the "stressful" ABX test
  
  
 what does this mean for someone at a meet picking up even the same model headphone...
  
  
 at least have a "perceptual anchor", headphones/amp whatever is being reviewed that you are familiar with, acclimated to, that you can quickly switch too and from if you want to give subjective opinion hoped to be useful to others here  - "from memory" is increasingly unreliable as hours, days pass
  
 and do try to level match - even if differing headphones detailed frequency response will still give audible difference
  
  
 "map reading" is much improved if you read "the instructions" - proven Psychoacoustics, Perceptual Psychology
  
  
 the allergic reaction, put downs, dismissals on most head-fi forums to those discussing such is I think a disservice to the community


----------



## zolkis

sorrodje said:


> Seems the seal of the L700 is better on Inexxon's coupler. So IMO , measurements are somewhat hard to compare directly.
> 
> See this FR plot ( Did it myself of my DIY measurements rig )


 
  
 Thank you for this eye-opening plot!
 When you mentioned coupling: at least on my head the L700 did have a better fit indeed than the 507. I find it a lot more comfortable and better designed pad. 
  
 The differences in your plots seemed to affect not only the bass, but the midrange too. I think this is especially and explosively true with the 007 Mk1: adjusting the headbands is quintessential in getting its sound in shape. When I have done it, besides music I was also using test tones to check balance. I have also noticed the bass-reflex effect of a loose fit: peaking around 50-100 Hz and losing sub-30 Hz response. The mids are more open with a loose fit, but I ended up going with the more linear bass response. After that I modified the ear pads to get the mids more open, in the direction of shallower pads with bigger opening (keeping air volume more or less the same), ending up with a 009 ear pad with modified foam filling. I prefer the result to the 009 for the transparent and full bodied musical liveliness of the 007. Nota bene: I haven't tried Sorbothane yet, but it's coming .
  
 I wonder if could you share your measurement setup: are you using a dummy head, what kind, what mike etc. So far I've only used my own dummy head with my own built-in limited/special edition microphones 
 About methodology: how do you make sure the measured headphones fit is consistent across measurements / how do you post-process raw measurement data. 
 I am comfortable with measuring speakers, but never done it with headphones.


----------



## Sorrodje

Honestly, Inexxon's plot seems to indicate a good seal is easier to find with the L700 compared to the SR-507  and that corroborates your feelings.  
  
 I'm probably lucky enough considering I achieve to have  a very good seal with all Lambdas I owned or borrowed. 
  
 For measurements, remember all FR measurements should be taken with a grain of salt, especially small differences between two measures.


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## soren_brix

sorrodje said:


> @zolkis : you mean this FR measurement for the 507 :http://www.inexxon.com/stax-modelle/stax-kopfh%C3%B6rer/sr-lambda-507/  ?  That's exemplary of how any Lambda measures when the seal is broken. It explains the "loudness" effect when you pull off a bit the earpads from you ears.
> 
> Seems the seal of the L700 is better on Inexxon's coupler. So IMO , measurements are somewhat hard to compare directly.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


zolkis said:


> Yes, it's an eye opener. That's why one can compare only plots made with the same setup, and even then it's not sure how much the measurement setup is similar to your own environment.


 
  
 Looks like Stax's own measurements of bad/good seal using another Lambda, at least from the midrange and down:


----------



## soren_brix

jcx said:


> the measurement differences should give some pause as to what a person with whatever head size, bone structure, hair actually gets as sound waves at their eardrum too -  it isn't just a problem for measuring
> 
> "map reading" is much improved if you read "the instructions" - proven Psychoacoustics, Perceptual Psychology


 
  Good points.
  
 Quote:


jcx said:


> the allergic reaction, put downs, dismissals on most head-fi forums to those discussing such is I think a disservice to the community


 
 any suggestions how to create a better environment encouraging such discussions?


----------



## bmichels

Has someone tested already a *3rd Party cable for it's SR009...it this exist * ?  Some sort of "DHC Silver Comp" for STAX ?


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## zolkis

bmichels said:


> Has someone tested already a *3rd Party cable for it's SR009...it this exist * ?  Some sort of "DHC Silver Comp" for STAX ?


 
  
 I wonder whether shorter / lower impedance capacitance cables improve e-stats' sound to justify going through the non-trivial cable change.
 The original Stax cable lasts decades with no issues, and it's good enough that IMHO improving everything else (amp, sources, vibrations, pads, etc) makes more sense.
  
 If you really want to go into cable change game, first I'd try flat solid core copper cables like older or new Nordost speaker cables.
 Remarkably similar to Stax cables, in a more modern outfit.
http://www.nordost.com/leif/white-lightning/white-lightning-speaker-cable.php
http://www.nordost.com/leif/purple-flare/purple-flare-speaker-cable.php
http://www.nordost.com/leif/blue-heaven/blue-heaven-speaker-cable.php
  
 The Stax 009 cable is silver plated:
https://www.staxusa.com/stax-sr-009.html
 If you want that (I don't see why the Nordost would be better except for larger cross-section, but here it is):
http://nordost.com/leif/red-dawn/red-dawn-speaker-cable.php


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## Ali-Pacha

E-stats are about capacitance, not impedance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Check this : http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/18585#post_8460209

 Ali


----------



## zolkis

Yes. At least Nordost specifies the capacitance and inductance of their cables.
 Anyway I stopped using Nordost, but anyone can buy 1.5-3 m flat speaker cable and have some fun .


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## soren_brix

zolkis said:


> Yes. At least Nordost specifies the capacitance and inductance of their cables.
> Anyway I stopped using Nordost, but anyone can buy 1.5-3 m flat speaker cable and have some fun .


 
 As Ali points out the most important property in rgrds to electrostatics is the capacitance of the cable.
 The capacitance of the cable is mainly governed by the geometry and the dielectric of the isolator. 
 Probably why the more expensive Stax is using wider cables with more distance between the wires. Not much more to gain IMHO.


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## zolkis

FWIW Ali named inductance, you named capacitance. Since inductance is more or less given (cable length, AWG, etc), indeed capacitance is more important since it's comparable to that of the headphone. I wonder when Stax provides the capacitance figure for a headphone (like 110 pF for the SR-009), does that include the cable?


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## Ali-Pacha

You're right zolkis, my bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks to Sören too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ali


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## soren_brix

zolkis said:


> FWIW Ali named inductance, you named capacitance. Since inductance is more or less given (cable length, AWG, etc), indeed capacitance is more important since it's comparable to that of the headphone. I wonder when Stax provides the capacitance figure for a headphone (like 110 pF for the SR-009), does that include the cable?


 
 I've never came across a Stax specification where they didn't include the cable in the capacitance in the spec, 
  
 Look here for instance: http://www.stax.co.jp/Pdf/Export/Web_News_SR-L700-E.pdf ...so far I've only seen ~100pF or so, and since the relationship between required current and capacitance (look to the post by Arnaud Ali pointed to) for a specific slew rate is linear, a few pF does change much.


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## zolkis

Thanks. This makes cable change even more risky and with much less margin of potential options and benefits, since the capacitance should be more or less the same; amps are designed by taking this value in mind. I guess this is what Ali intended to point out as well.


----------



## potkettleblack

Just a small contribution:

I heard the L700 today with the 353X and for price - or just at all - that little black toast machine is one of the best deals in the headphone world at the minute. Absolute blinder. Highly recommended.


----------



## Quixote79

potkettleblack said:


> Just a small contribution:
> 
> I heard the L700 today with the 353X and for price - or just at all - that little black toast machine is one of the best deals in the headphone world at the minute. Absolute blinder. Highly recommended.


 

 very interesting. Do you think that you experience is also that the 353X is a superior amplifier, like Zolkis mentioned?


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## potkettleblack

quixote79 said:


> very interesting. Do you think that you experience is also that the 353X is a superior amplifier, like Zolkis mentioned?


I know there are mixed opinions on Stax amps on headfi. Do you mean superior to the other Stax amps? I experienced a little break up at very high volumes which would be no issue to me because it was well after what I would consider too loud. On a whole it was a very good experience and personally I wouldn't see myself spending more on an amp to go with the L700.
I plan to get them in the future and I will put them against the other Stax amps when I do. I did a lot of back and forths between the L700, 009 and 007.
It isn't easy but I enjoyed the presentation more on the L700 and feel you could listen to more genres with them. 
I'm a huge fan of all 3.


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## BenHolmes

Wondered if anyone knew of the best place to audition a Stax SR-009 in Sanfran, Los Angeles or New York? I'm only gunna be in each spot max 5 days, and I'm missing any cons that are on unfortunately.

I've heard the sr009 are cheapest in Japan, is that true? Who would be some of the best dealers in Japan?


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## zolkis

quixote79 said:


> very interesting. Do you think that you experience is also that the 353X is a superior amplifier, like Zolkis mentioned?


 
  
 Superior to the 323S yes, but still less refined than say the SRM-007t. However for the price, if you're in the EU, I'd rather buy Erik Konka's tube Stax amp I wrote about a few pages back.
 With the 353X the L700 was a bit more rough than the 007 and 009 (and only in comparison with the Omegas), but with the tube amp it was smooth enough. For any account I agree the 353X+L700 is one of the best bargains in the head-fi world.


----------



## Pokemonn

some may prefer 252S over 323 or more expensive stax amps.
 252S sound smooth and musical and easy to listen to. but not hifi. and very wallet friendly.


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## Quixote79

potkettleblack said:


> I know there are mixed opinions on Stax amps on headfi. Do you mean superior to the other Stax amps? I experienced a little break up at very high volumes which would be no issue to me because it was well after what I would consider too loud. On a whole it was a very good experience and personally I wouldn't see myself spending more on an amp to go with the L700.
> I plan to get them in the future and I will put them against the other Stax amps when I do. I did a lot of back and forths between the L700, 009 and 007.
> It isn't easy but I enjoyed the presentation more on the L700 and feel you could listen to more genres with them.
> I'm a huge fan of all 3.


 

 i mean superior to the 323s like zolkis says.
 i only have a 404 and 007. i like the 007 a lot with kgsshv. i like it not so much with 006t. the 404 sounds good with both but better with the kgsshv i think.


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## The Dutch Guy

I am considering purchasing a Stax 3170 system, but in the past have had some problem with Stax energizers humming when plugged into un-grounded wall sockets.
 I've spent quite some time googling/reading and it appears to be a common problem, but I am not sure if this means they all do it. (I'm talking about the 323 and up, the ones with the wall-wart never gave me trouble)
 My first thought was to simply order it, and if it would turn out to be an issue, have an electrician put in one grounded wall socket in my audio room. unfortunately it turns out this is not possible: Regulations state that if any work is done on an electrical system , the entire group should be upgraded to the latest standards, which boils down to having half my house rewired/grounded.
  
 Any experiences with this, or perhaps a workaround that does not involve grounding it to my central heating system (Which is illegal here and voids my fire insurance) or spending 1000's on having the entire upper floor of my rental house rewired?


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## Michgelsen

Can I assume that you're in the Netherlands, judging by your nickname? If so, then it is likely that you have a coax radio/television cable connection near your hifi system. You can use its shield as a ground connection. The cable shield should be properly grounded by the cable company.
 Do as follows: Connect your whole audio system to a single power strip with grounding provisions ('randaarde'). Then only connect a copper wire from the grounding terminal on the back of the Stax amp to the shield (not the core!) of the coax cable. You can thus ground your whole system at one point via the radio/television cable, because all devices share their ground via the power strip, which is grounded via the Stax amp. I have done this in multiple houses with great success.
 As long as you have a residual-current device ('aardlekschakelaar'), safety is not compromised.
  
 Quote:


the dutch guy said:


> I am considering purchasing a Stax 3170 system, but in the past have had some problem with Stax energizers humming when plugged into un-grounded wall sockets.
> I've spent quite some time googling/reading and it appears to be a common problem, but I am not sure if this means they all do it. (I'm talking about the 323 and up, the ones with the wall-wart never gave me trouble)
> My first thought was to simply order it, and if it would turn out to be an issue, have an electrician put in one grounded wall socket in my audio room. unfortunately it turns out this is not possible: Regulations state that if any work is done on an electrical system , the entire group should be upgraded to the latest standards, which boils down to having half my house rewired/grounded.
> 
> Any experiences with this, or perhaps a workaround that does not involve grounding it to my central heating system (Which is illegal here and voids my fire insurance) or spending 1000's on having the entire upper floor of my rental house rewired?


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## The Dutch Guy

Thanks Michgelsen, that actually sounds like a viable work-around: There is an antenna outlet right next to my Stereo system and fixing probably have a loose coax plug and a thin piece of speaker wire laying around to make a "plug and play"grounding cable for the Stax. (My entire system is allready on one power-strip, so I can pull the plug easily during a thunder storm)
  
 The shop has also agreed to give some time to try out the Stax (They normally don't allow returns of headphones because of hygiene concerns).


----------



## empetus

Have been comparing Stax 252s with L-700 and L-500 and SRM -353X amp.I use the 252S with Plixir or use it with voltage regulator, the result is interesting because the 252x wins everytime over 353x.I prefer the combo 252x/l-500 most of the time because it's clearer and more open and has bigger soundstage than  L-700/ 353x combo.The L-700 appear little bit too full sounding against L-500 ,the L-500 is more balanced than L-700 .The 252S/L-500 is a killer combo if you run it with a good source.The L-500 sounds like 207 but is much more open and slightly smoother, very detailed and lovely and it got also something from the old Lambda signature sound but in more balanced way.The L-500 is very musical with 252s ultra clear with added smoothness, like it very much


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## rgs9200m

quixote79 said:


> i like the 007 a lot with kgsshv.


 
 Me too.


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## nemomec

empetus said:


> The L-700 appear little bit too full sounding against L-500 ,the L-500 is more balanced than L-700 .


 
 Hear the SR-L700 after 50-100 hours and the little peak in the upper bass are gone. In the end i prefer the SR-L700 to the SR-L500, it has a cleaner and more open sound, testet on Stax SRM-T1, SRM-006t, SRM-1 MK2 Pro and SRM-353X. But the SR-L500 has a very good price performance and is for me a better choice than the other older Lambda models.


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## zolkis

empetus said:


> Have been comparing Stax 252s with L-700 and L-500 and SRM -353X amp.I use the 252S with Plixir or use it with voltage regulator, the result is interesting because the 252x wins everytime over 353x.I prefer the combo 252x/l-500 most of the time because it's clearer and more open and has bigger soundstage than  L-700/ 353x combo.The L-700 appear little bit too full sounding against L-500 ,the L-500 is more balanced than L-700 .The 252S/L-500 is a killer combo if you run it with a good source.The L-500 sounds like 207 but is much more open and slightly smoother, very detailed and lovely and it got also something from the old Lambda signature sound but in more balanced way.The L-500 is very musical with 252s ultra clear with added smoothness, like it very much


 
 That's interesting since the way I heard it the L700 had the bigger sound stage. Never heard it with the 252S + Plixir though.
 How much does the Plixir power supply cost?
 And how does the L700 sound with the 252S+Plixir?
  
 "too full sounding" -- I cannot relate to this, if it's about body, since I consider the Lambdas a touch too ethereal, except the L700, so to my brain a full sound from an e-stat is a good sign, but perhaps you wanted to say something else.


----------



## tdogzthmn

How does the SR507 fair against the newer breed of lambada?


----------



## bmichels

I have a BHSE on order (looong wait), but...now that I have a HE-X, I wonder:  IF I get a DAVE, will I still need a BHSE + SR009 ?  
  
 On the other hand,  I have been looking at this BHSE & SR009 combo since so many years that I MUST get one now that I can afford it. It is some sort of pilgrimage. I have no choice ....


----------



## bmichels

From  *Stefan AudioArt* : Endorphin High-End Umbilical Power Cable for the Justin Wilson Blue Hawaii SE
  
 This is NOT tube rolling, but a Mod that is SUPPOSED to improve the BHSE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
"_The Endorphin Ribbon Umbilical Power Cable __connects the external power supply to the amplifier offering very important improvements to the presentation of the music._
_High-end sound cannot be achieved by neglecting the quality of the power signal into a well designed component. Poorly designed power cables with heavy dielectrics and over designed connectors “pollute” the power which effects the overall performance of the component._
_The Endorphin Ribbon Umbilical Power Cable is made of an ultra-pure, extremely thin copper hybrid ribbon material consisting of the purest copper formulated with a proprietary superconductive material and incorporates an extremely efficient micro-dielectric material. We have removed 98% of the dielectric found in almost all of the high performance power cables available on the market. Stefan AudioArt’s combination of a specialized ribbon conductive surface formula along with the omission of most of the dielectric material (which dramatically pollutes the signal), results in music which is much more organic and real with a significant improvement in clarity, detail, soundstage and bass. Most importantly, the true sonic tube signature the Blue Hawaii SE is capable of delivering will be heard...... BLA....  BLA....  BLA...._"
  
 -->  Someone believe this ?


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Yiek, +$500USD hurt...save that for fx1-4


----------



## mulveling

LOL, I wonder what Justin thinks of that...


----------



## potkettleblack

So the 252s is considered a capable amp for the price ?

After reading how it pairs with L700 this is looking like something I have missed. I heard it with the 353X the other day and loved it. But if the 252 does a better job I could save myself a bit of money.

(I have little experience with Stax amps)


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## zolkis

potkettleblack said:


> So the 252s is considered a capable amp for the price ?
> 
> After reading how it pairs with L700 this is looking like something I have missed. I heard it with the 353X the other day and loved it. But if the 252 does a better job I could save myself a bit of money.


 
  
 Wait until you see the price of the required Plixir, or similar power supply - I guess it's about a grand, so close to that of the 353X, but I am waiting for confirmation. 
  
 If it's not for the price but for quality gain, why not step up and get upgraded the power supply in the 353X or get the 353X modified to have external PSU connector+switch and get the Plixir to it?


----------



## potkettleblack

zolkis said:


> Wait until you see the price of the required Plixir, or similar power supply - I guess it's about a grand, so close to that of the 353X, but I am waiting for confirmation.
> 
> If it's not for the price but for quality gain, why not step up and get upgraded the power supply in the 353X or get the 353X modified to have external PSU connector+switch and get the Plixir to it?


Thanks for the reply but what you just said to me looks like this:



I'm going to message you again at some point, closer to the time that I'm considering the 353X (if that's ok) or I'm gonna ask again in the forum - because modding amps is something I know nothing about. I've just got the AB-1266 but think they complimented each other perfectly.

If it's not ok I'm gonna do it anyway.


----------



## Tidal

I am currently using srm-007tA with SR-202. I'm looking for a new speaker, since 202 has issues about thin midrange with excessive sibilance on vocal files (while it does a great job on instrumental piece such as violin). That's a bit fatiguing.

I have heard that lambda series suit well for stax amp, which is considered inferior to KGSSHV series (yeah, the brand new one is at triple price of used 007tA). The omega, on the other hand, is unanimously said to be not suitable for the 007tA due to lack of power.

So I would like to know if the new L700 will work well on 007tA or not, compared to those KGSSHV series.

Thank you


----------



## zolkis

Yes, the L700 will work well with the 007tA, and it's the upgrade that makes most sense if you want to keep the amp. The next jump would be the 007MK1 or 007A, or 009. IMHO they still sound better with the 007tA than the L700, but will scale more with a better amp. However, the L700 is the best buy.


----------



## martyn73

Hi, I'm getting a pair of SR-L700 headphones and have a SRM-006T. Is this a good match or is a SRM-353X a better option? I often listen to female singers so a concern would be sibilance which I noticed affected the SRM-727II which was an unpleasant pairing with my recently sold SR-404 headphones and even with moderate EQ emphasised any sibilance in a track. My source is a PC with a Chord Hugo. I understand that the SRM-353X is essentially a 323S with balanced inputs which is not helpful to me. Feedback on this forum suggest that the SR-L700 is not prone to a harsh treble sound so the question is whether a valve amp is necessary to tame a harsh treble in a track.


----------



## arnaud

I recall that, out of all stax amps I tried with it (727a, 007t2, 006t, 353x), I prefered the L700 with 006t the most. There was something to it, it just paired to give the most pleasing tone and staging. It was too brief a listen to be really affirmative but I also got the exact same reaction when I heard the L700 the 2nd time around at quiet headphone store (~1h dedicated listening, but the tube amp might have been the 007t that time, not the 006t).


----------



## wink

bmichels said:


> From  *Stefan AudioArt* : Endorphin High-End Umbilical Power Cable for the Justin Wilson Blue Hawaii SE
> 
> This is NOT tube rolling, but a Mod that is SUPPOSED to improve the BHSE.
> 
> ...


 

 Snake oil and unicorn tears with a dash of pixie dust........


----------



## soren_brix

bmichels said:


> From  *Stefan AudioArt* : Endorphin High-End Umbilical Power Cable for the Justin Wilson Blue Hawaii SE
> 
> This is NOT tube rolling, but a Mod that is SUPPOSED to improve the BHSE.
> 
> ...


 
 at least he got this right: "_..... BLA....  BLA....  BLA...._"


----------



## soren_brix

martyn73 said:


> Hi, I'm getting a pair of SR-L700 headphones and have a SRM-006T. Is this a good match or is a SRM-353X a better option? I often listen to female singers so a concern would be sibilance which I noticed affected the SRM-727II which was an unpleasant pairing with my recently sold SR-404 headphones and even with moderate EQ emphasised any sibilance in a track. My source is a PC with a Chord Hugo. I understand that the SRM-353X is essentially a 323S with balanced inputs which is not helpful to me. Feedback on this forum suggest that the SR-L700 is not prone to a harsh treble sound so the question is whether a valve amp is necessary to tame a harsh treble in a track.


 
 You might look at this before you depart from your 404's - I find the mod worth while and an improvement, you'll probably find the 404 to be more pleasent and a bit more refined and tight and the 'etch' seems almost gone. That said, some find no improvement at all, while others find humongous improvements ... read the thread with a grain of salt


----------



## Pokemonn

SRM-25


tidal said:


> I am currently using srm-007tA with SR-202. I'm looking for a new speaker, since 202 has issues about thin midrange with excessive sibilance on vocal files (while it does a great job on instrumental piece such as violin). That's a bit fatiguing.
> 
> Thank you


 
 SRM-252S can tame treble very much. sounds very very smooth like $2K class A dynamic phone amp. no joke. its fact.
 please try 252S if you care sibilance or listening fatigue.
 you can also DIY 252S's 12V DC external PSU.


----------



## Tidal

zolkis said:


> Yes, the L700 will work well with the 007tA, and it's the upgrade that makes most sense if you want to keep the amp. The next jump would be the 007MK1 or 007A, or 009. IMHO they still sound better with the 007tA than the L700, but will scale more with a better amp. However, the L700 is the best buy.




Thank you zolkis for your clear comment. It's exactly about what I'm concerned. I am inclined to have the L700 now.




pokemonn said:


> SRM-25
> SRM-252S can tame treble very much. sounds very very smooth like $2K class A dynamic phone amp. no joke. its fact.
> please try 252S if you care sibilance or listening fatigue.
> you can also DIY 252S's 12V DC external PSU.




Thank you Pokemonn sann
I have already sold the 252S, but still remember a great time of SRS-2170 (SRM-252S and 207). I agree that there is no issue about sibilance at all. It's about 'more elaborate' of the system I want, that underlie the reason I change to 007tA.

However, does L700 have any issue about sibilance?


----------



## Pokemonn

Hi Tidal. you are welcome.
 I used to own ALL current stax amps(except 353X since its new product).
 my opinion is SRM-252S is most least sibilant amp among stax amps. but sadly 252S is not hifi.
 i recommend to try 252s again if you still have sibilance issue. since it one of the cheapest way to tame treble.
 i am now listening to 252S + L700 combo. no sibilance at all. i can recommend this combo.


----------



## martyn73

arnaud said:


> I recall that, out of all stax amps I tried with it (727a, 007t2, 006t, 353x), I prefered the L700 with 006t the most. There was something to it, it just paired to give the most pleasing tone and staging. It was too brief a listen to be really affirmative but I also got the exact same reaction when I heard the L700 the 2nd time around at quiet headphone store (~1h dedicated listening, but the tube amp might have been the 007t that time, not the 006t).


 
 Did you find that the 006t and 007t2 coloured or changed the sound in any way? I find my 006t helps to reduce any harshness in a Stax headphone's upper treble, but the 353X has more power.


----------



## rgs9200m

I have the 007t2 that I put RCA cleartop tubes in (that are fairly new) that I have not gotten around to selling yet since I got my kgss-hv, but if anyone is interested let me know by PM. (Good price!)


----------



## bmichels

By the way, does someone has news about *the prototype of the new SRM212 small Stax amp ?*


----------



## Quixote79

anybody know anything new about the cyclotron?


----------



## comzee

quixote79 said:


> anybody know anything new about the cyclotron?


 

 I'm pretty sure Kevin Gilmore has it spec'd out. I don't believe they have run a set of circuit boards for DIY'ers yet.
 When they do, it'll still be awhile before builders start creating them for public sale.


----------



## Quixote79

comzee said:


> I'm pretty sure Kevin Gilmore has it spec'd out. I don't believe they have run a set of circuit boards for DIY'ers yet.
> When they do, it'll still be awhile before builders start creating them for public sale.


 

 oh, thanks - you are probably right. Just saw in some other thread that he has given it some really wird name so I thought there might be something new going on


----------



## Tinkerer

There are first run boards out, and a lot of people have started building. However there are a couple small known errors in the output boards like with the first run KGSSHV and it's hard to fit the thing into a case. Nobody has finished one yet, except the original and functional prototype.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Cyclotron = DIY T2 replacement?


----------



## Rhamnetin

sko0bydoo said:


> Cyclotron = DIY T2 replacement?


 
  
 Circlotron and not really, it refers to a totally different amp.


----------



## Spirulina780

bmichels said:


> By the way, does someone has news about *the prototype of the new SRM212 small Stax amp ?*


 
  
 Stax should release this one soon, they showcased the prototype of the SRM212 on CES 2014. They also showcased dac/amp for the SRS-002 in 2014, yet non of them are available.


----------



## Pokemonn

NEWS Stax will release new SR-L300 and SRS-3100 system.
  
 http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/blog/?p=23008 (in japanese)


----------



## deuter

All,
  
 I want to get into stax, what should I get.
 My current headphones are ps1000, th900 and hd800.


----------



## potkettleblack

Are there any prices flying around for the SRM 212?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

New Stax SR-L300 : http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20160311_747788.html
  

  
 x07 range will probably be discontinued.
  
 Ali


----------



## astrostar59

deuter said:


> All,
> 
> I want to get into stax, what should I get.
> My current headphones are ps1000, th900 and hd800.


 

*It totally depends on your budget:*
  
 If under 2K USD I would get the SR-507 or the new L700 and a Stax amp.
  
 If a bit more get an SR-007 and a DIY KGSShv second hand.
  
 If over 5K then get the SR-009 and a DIY KGSShv / KGST / BHSE new.
  
 I would suggest trying a Stax system at a dealer first to ensure it floats your boat. Bear in mind though that the Stax amps are not so hot and you can get better sound 'looking around'.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## lilbthebasedgod

So my stax SRM-3 just stopped turning on.  The screws on it are stripped down so I can't open it up and take a look. 
  
 Basically I just want to know what goes wrong with stax amps usually and how costly are repairs?


----------



## ahnafakeef

This is extremely disappointing for a headphone of SR-009's stature, but mine is producing some sort of crackling noise. The closest analogy I can imagine is the noise that cheap speakers make when the volume is cranked up.
  
 Could someone please tell me what might be causing this and how I can fix it?
  
 In case it helps, I've been using it exactly for a month now.
  
 Thank you.
  
 EDIT: The only major factor that has noticeably changed is the temperature in my room because I've to crank up the AC to keep my PC cool during gaming. Is there a possibility that the lowered temperature is affecting the headphone?


----------



## Tinkerer

lilbthebasedgod said:


> So my stax SRM-3 just stopped turning on.  The screws on it are stripped down so I can't open it up and take a look.
> 
> Basically I just want to know what goes wrong with stax amps usually and how costly are repairs?


 
  
 Usually you got a short somewhere and need to clean it up, and hope it didn't blow a transistor or a cap or your transformer didn't die. Parts are cheap. Hunting down the problem is not, so best to do it yourself if you can.
  
 First thing I'd personally check is the fuse at the back though, and get it opened up so you can see if there's any obvious damage. A dremel or small hacksaw blade will cut some grip back into the screws for you to be able to get a flathead to turn them. And you can buy replacement metric screws for next to nothing.


----------



## Tinkerer

ahnafakeef said:


> This is extremely disappointing for a headphone of SR-009's stature, but mine is producing some sort of crackling noise. The closest analogy I can imagine is the noise that cheap speakers make when the volume is cranked up.
> 
> Could someone please tell me what might be causing this and how I can fix it?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Can be any of three things.
  
 Could be the stax fart, but you probably know what that sounds like by now.
  
 Could be the amp/source. Not fun hunting that down.
  
 Could be dust in the stator. This is real trouble, like hope you still have a warranty kind of trouble.
  
 Start working on process of elimination if you can. Hook it up to a different source. Measure offset and balance on the amp. That sort of thing.


----------



## ahnafakeef

tinkerer said:


> Can be any of three things.
> 
> Could be the stax fart, but you probably know what that sounds like by now.
> 
> ...


 
 The Stax fart generates from the ear pads, right? The noise I'm experiencing is definitely coming from the drivers themselves.
  
 I only have one electrostatic amplifier and only one DAC (other than my ODAC). So no way to verify if it's the amp or DAC.
  
 Dust in HPs? Unlikely, if you ask me. I've used it for only a month, and I've kept the HPs covered with a CPC-1 at all times.
  
 Please advise on my next course of action. Thank you.


----------



## AnakChan

ahnafakeef said:


> The Stax fart generates from the ear pads, right? The noise I'm experiencing is definitely coming from the drivers themselves.
> 
> I only have one electrostatic amplifier and only one DAC (other than my ODAC). So no way to verify if it's the amp or DAC.
> 
> ...


 
  
 No the Stax fart is from the drivers. Search through the term and you'll find out more about it. When do you hear the crackling? When you're moving your jaw? At least for me it only "farts" when I'm moving my jaw. If I'm not flexing my facial muscles whilst listening to my SR-009, it doesn't "fart".


----------



## ahnafakeef

anakchan said:


> No the Stax fart is from the drivers. Search through the term and you'll find out more about it. When do you hear the crackling? When you're moving your jaw? At least for me it only "farts" when I'm moving my jaw. If I'm not flexing my facial muscles whilst listening to my SR-009, it doesn't "fart".


 
 I hear the crackling when something's playing, regardless of jaw movement. I would have specified, but I thought it was implied.
 ------------------------------------------
 As for dust in the HPs, is there a way to verify whether there's dust in there, so that I can at least eliminate that possibility?


----------



## paradoxper

ahnafakeef said:


> I hear the crackling when something's playing, regardless of jaw movement. I would have specified, but I thought it was implied.
> ------------------------------------------
> As for dust in the HPs, is there a way to verify whether there's dust in there, so that I can at least eliminate that possibility?


 
 Find it hard to distinguish. Some say it's arcing while others report the fart sounds quite similar within an crinkling/popping.
  
post #5866


----------



## ahnafakeef

paradoxper said:


> Find it hard to distinguish. Some say it's arcing while others report the fart sounds quite similar within an crinkling/popping.
> 
> post #5866


 
 My experience - "like snap-crackle-pop" and "definitely coming from the earpiece" but it does not sound like electrical arcing. It's just random intermittent noise. And very distracting and disruptive in my opinion.
  
 But if it's related to burn-in, shouldn't I have experienced it since I first started using it? Why is it occurring after a month of use?
  
 This is very frustrating and is really taking everything away from my listening experience. Please let me know any and every step that I can take to possibly solve this issue. Even the most basic of probable solutions are welcome since I'm new to electrostatics and haven't really been able to do anything so far to find a fix.
  
 Thank you.


----------



## paradoxper

ahnafakeef said:


> My experience - "like snap-crackle-pop" and "definitely coming from the earpiece" but it does not sound like electrical arcing. It's just random intermittent noise. And very distracting and disruptive in my opinion.
> 
> But if it's related to burn-in, shouldn't I have experienced it since I first started using it? Why is it occurring after a month of use?
> 
> ...


 
 We all have different interpretations. To me, it's a distortion sound - it sounds exactly like arcing with that pshhwt pshhwt. I'm not aware of a 'fix', though.


----------



## ahnafakeef

paradoxper said:


> We all have different interpretations. To me, it's a distortion sound - it sounds exactly like arcing with that pshhwt pshhwt. I'm not aware of a 'fix', though.


 
 If you don't mind my asking, have you experienced this issue with your STAX HPs? If yes, what did you do about it?


----------



## paradoxper

ahnafakeef said:


> If you don't mind my asking, have you experienced this issue with your STAX HPs? If yes, what did you do about it?


 
 My current mk 1 does it. The only thing I've tried is really readjusting the fitment. It's a minor inconvenience so I'm not too bothered by it.


----------



## aalleexxii

I only have a sr-307 with a srm-323s for 2 months but I've been noticing the crackling since the beginning. The crackling is caused by volume and quality of the recording imo. I mostly listen to classical and I listen it easily at volume 7-8 and then the crackling usually happens at an orchestral outburst. It will usually not distort if you put the volume all the way up at silent/moderate playing. And then the recording of the quality will determine at what level the crackling will start, sometimes it's happens already at volume 6. I found it amazing that if I listen to commercial electronic music, the distortion rarely happens even if you put the volume super loud. But when a lot of noises happens at once, it seems that it can distort when it's badly produced. I find it amazing that the SR-009 has the same problem. Can you share your thought on this ahnafakeef?

 Edit: and it happens sooner with with the right driver, it distorts more easily. Both drivers will distort at the same moment when the volume is additionally raised. Which makes me think there is some production flaw at hand. But it also makes me wonder if, at that point when testing it, I'm even listening at a level that an actual orchestra would generate live.


----------



## zolkis

The first thing that came to mind: what is your source to the DAC? If computer, the noise may come from the PSU. I experienced that once with my office rig. Otherwise it may be clipping, or electrostatic discharge. If you can, try other sources, amp, and headphones to locate the problem. Neither my 007 nor my 009 made any crackling or popping noise ever so my guesses are just guesses.


----------



## HemiSam

Try unplugging the connector to the amplifier and touching the five prongs with your finger.  There will be no shock but you will discharge the headphones.  That can help at times.  You can also try firmly popping with an open hand (don't break it just a good stiff pop) the earspearker in question from the outside.  Finally, you can put it in a sealed back with desiccant...removes moisture.  I'm making the leap that the relative humidity in your country is high and when you introduce air conditioning you can have a condensation effect.
  
 If there is a shop that sells Stax amplifiers anywhere nearby, I would start there and ask if they have a demo unit and use your headphones.  If no problem, then you've isolated it to amp and/or DAC.
  
 HS


----------



## bearFNF

@ahnafakeef
  
 Earlier in the thread someone mentioned they had a similar issue and they found a hair in there somewhere. Might be worth a thorough inspection and cleaning.
  
 As far as the temperature goes, I have had mine in cold and warm (for me) room (55F to 76F) and had no noticeable issues.
  
 Last resort after the above suggestions is warranty?, depending on where you got them from...


----------



## lilbthebasedgod

Ok so I opened up the SRM-3 and the fuse was broken.  I just replaced it with a similar one but then the entire main board caught fire.
  
 I turned it off immediately and found this
  

  
 The bottom four resistors were burned.  Now, resistors are generic, and I can replace them easily, but I am just trying to figure out what could have caused it to burn like this in the first place.


----------



## echineko

I'm contemplating moving to a Stax setup, and I must say, these past few posts are unsettling. I'm planning to start with a Stax amp first until I can save up for an upgrade, is there any consensus on whether the tube or solid state variants are less likely to have issues? Or is it more dependent on the environment they're running in, dust, humidity etc?


----------



## Tinkerer

lilbthebasedgod said:


> Ok so I opened up the SRM-3 and the fuse was broken.  I just replaced it with a similar one but then the entire main board caught fire.
> 
> I turned it off immediately and found this
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd bet arcing from a short. Look at the traces underneath. That's where the original culprit probably is. With stuff that burned, you likely fried some of your transistors though. I'd pull everything from the right channel part of the board and test it with a multimeter. Then clean up the scorch and lacquer over the shorts on the bottom. Then get your replacement parts and install them.
  
 But look upstream and see if everything looks fine from the input side. You don't want to fry it twice. Make sure the left matches the right voltage/current-wise


----------



## potkettleblack

ahnafakeef said:


> This is extremely disappointing for a headphone of SR-009's stature, but mine is producing some sort of crackling noise. The closest analogy I can imagine is the noise that cheap speakers make when the volume is cranked up.
> 
> Could someone please tell me what might be causing this and how I can fix it?
> 
> ...


The guys on here have a lot of experience and will be able to provide tips and checks - but if they are just a month old and this isn't the notorious 'Stax fart' I suggest contacting your dealer immediately. If it's an issue/fault that is outside of the norm, you need to get it replaced asap. You shouldn't be troubleshooting and considering workarounds for something that is brand new. Try not to let it get you angry.


----------



## mulveling

ahnafakeef said:


> My experience - "like snap-crackle-pop" and "definitely coming from the earpiece" but it does not sound like electrical arcing. It's just random intermittent noise. And very distracting and disruptive in my opinion.
> 
> But if it's related to burn-in, shouldn't I have experienced it since I first started using it? Why is it occurring after a month of use?
> 
> ...


 
 It seems far more likely to be an issue with amp rather than headphones -- especially since it happens with both your 307 and 009. I've heard distortion similar to what you describe a couple times, and it's always been the amp.
  
 It's not the Stax "fart" -- which is a completely dumb name for that phenomenon, as it sound NOTHING like what you would expect from the name.


----------



## Spirulina780

So is the "stax fart" really annoying? is it a reason not to buy stax?


----------



## bearFNF

Not an issue that would keep me from my Stax.


----------



## mulveling

spirulina780 said:


> So is the "stax fart" really annoying? is it a reason not to buy stax?


 
 No. I find it to be less annoying than the microphonics from HD650 upgrade cables back when that was becoming a big deal (e.g. Clou / SAA / Zu / Cardas) -- and I still used those cables. And the Stax cables aren't microphonic.
  
 Basically, I never even think about this phenomenon until I see it mentioned on the forums again. It has 0 impact on my listening experience.


----------



## soren_brix

spirulina780 said:


> So is the "stax fart" really annoying? is it a reason not to buy stax?


 
 Some heads tends to fart more than others ...


----------



## chernobog

Good day, i have sr-303 phones with broken right case holder. Cant unpin metal connector from headband, is it even possible? Or only way to repair would be to 3d print new case holder and sticking to the pin?
 Sorry my english.


Spoiler: pics



https://i.imgur.com/7aMTJkq.jpg https://i.imgur.com/wRHwwrG.jpg
 https://www.staxusa.com/images/products/462.JPG


----------



## The Dutch Guy

A coupe of pages back I got the advice to ground my stax amp to my "CAI" (Centrale antenne inrichting, a wall outlet for TV/Radio/ Internet) And although i appreciate the help I found out it is in fact illegal and potentially dangerous to do so in the Netherlands, just like grounding to central heating systems or water/gas lines.
 I am not sure about the safety concerns, as it appears to me that the Antenna's ground will be connected to your stereo system anyway if you have a Tv or Tuner connected, but the legal issues could spell disaster if such an illegal contraption is discovered after a fire: Voiding your insurance even if it wasn't the cause of the fire.


----------



## Tinkerer

chernobog said:


> Good day, i have sr-303 phones with broken right case holder. Cant unpin metal connector from headband, is it even possible? Or only way to repair would be to 3d print new case holder and sticking to the pin?
> Sorry my english.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The pin is removable. Keep at it.


----------



## DougD

ahnafakeef said:


> This is extremely disappointing for a headphone of SR-009's stature, but mine is producing some sort of crackling noise. The closest analogy I can imagine is the noise that cheap speakers make when the volume is cranked up.
> 
> Could someone please tell me what might be causing this and how I can fix it?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I used to get a lot of crackling noises in my headphones, which I eventually realized were coming from the PC-USB. An expensive motherboard in a big tower with a lot of components, and apparently noisy. Fiddling with the buffering options in JRiverMediaCenter helped a bit. Moving to a different PC (a Windows laptop) essentially solved the problem, although the USB port on the laptop's left side has some noise, whereas both USB ports on the right side are quiet. Mysteries of the board layout, I guess.
  
 One of the things that convinced me that the PC&USB could be implicated, in my particular case, is that the crackle disappeared when I used the lineout from a DAP directly to the headphone amp, bypassing the PC and the USB connection to my DAC. 
  
 It's an easy thing to check. HTH.


----------



## Tinkerer

dougd said:


> I used to get a lot of crackling noises in my headphones, which I eventually realized were coming from the PC-USB. An expensive motherboard in a big tower with a lot of components, and apparently noisy. Fiddling with the buffering options in JRiverMediaCenter helped a bit. Moving to a different PC (a Windows laptop) essentially solved the problem, although the USB port on the laptop's left side has some noise, whereas both USB ports on the right side are quiet. Mysteries of the board layout, I guess.
> 
> One of the things that convinced me that the PC&USB could be implicated, in my particular case, is that the crackle disappeared when I used the lineout from a DAP directly to the headphone amp, bypassing the PC and the USB connection to my DAC.
> 
> It's an easy thing to check. HTH.


 
  
 This is why I'm glad my motherboard has optical and coax output.


----------



## astrostar59

T


dougd said:


> I used to get a lot of crackling noises in my headphones, which I eventually realized were coming from the PC-USB. An expensive motherboard in a big tower with a lot of components, and apparently noisy. Fiddling with the buffering options in JRiverMediaCenter helped a bit. Moving to a different PC (a Windows laptop) essentially solved the problem, although the USB port on the laptop's left side has some noise, whereas both USB ports on the right side are quiet. Mysteries of the board layout, I guess.
> 
> One of the things that convinced me that the PC&USB could be implicated, in my particular case, is that the crackle disappeared when I used the lineout from a DAP directly to the headphone amp, bypassing the PC and the USB connection to my DAC.
> 
> It's an easy thing to check. HTH.


 

 PC and Mac based USB can sound fabulous, but it needs some work. PC music servers built for the purpose are the easy option. I use a tweaked up Mac Mini and USB out. The ports on the Mac Mini are not equal, some are shared by other services inside the computer, so you need to choose the right one. Then feed that USB to a top convertor outboard, or use a DAC with a great implementation of USB input. Many DACs are not so hot on that unfortunately.
  
 I added a regulated 12V DC power supply to the Mac Mini and use the TotalDAC USB cable / filter before my USB to SPDIF convertor. It works great, no noise and no digital artefacts, very analogue sounding IMO.
  
 It can be frustrating with software and PC build options. Best way is have a dedicated PC server or Mac Mini only for music. A laptop will get to so far but will hit the buffers pretty soon IMO due to expandability and the compromised (small space lots of noise) circuits inside.
  
 I now have well beyond the sound quality from a (good and dedicated) CD transport from AIF files. It is possible with a bit of work.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## Senes

Hello
 I'm going to get a SRM-3 wired in 117v (initially wired in 100v but modded by Spritzer some years ago).
 How can I switch it to 240v?
 Is it the same as this :
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/15720#post_7530298
 ?

 Thanks you


----------



## plektret

Is 353X the best solid state amp for L700 in that price range, which is $741 at Pricejapan?


----------



## jjacq

My L700 arrived and I'm quite pleased with the sound. I had sold my Ether to "sidegrade" to an estat and I'm quite pleased with how this performs. Obviously not as airy or 3 dimensional compared to my two cans but I find it quite resolving. The midrange is extremely smooth and the decay is unmatched. It's a little bit on the bright side but it's enough to still call neutral. The downside to this is that the subbass is nothing substantial but midbass is there and it's quite enough for indie/acoustic recordings which I use them for. I bought these to get my feet wet when it comes to estats and because it was reported to have similar technology to the SR009, I figured it's something worth trying out.
If anyone's curious about the chain: Schiit GMB > Audio GD Master 9 > SRD7 > L700. Been listening to some Eric Clapton, Fleetwood Mac and all of the usual suspects.

 The Master 9 is quite an amp, it makes all my headphones very very resolving.


----------



## DougD

Interesting set-up, Jjacq. Are you running the L700 off low bias, or is that a pro-bias SRD-7 ?
  
 Doug


----------



## jjacq

dougd said:


> Interesting set-up, Jjacq. Are you running the L700 off low bias, or is that a pro-bias SRD-7 ?
> 
> Doug


 
  
 OJ has modded the internals to set it as pro bias. He used a Mjolnir 1 to run it before shipping it back to me. I'm quite pleased with how it all turned out.


----------



## DougD

jjacq said:


> OJ has modded the internals to set it as pro bias. He used a Mjolnir 1 to run it before shipping it back to me. I'm quite pleased with how it all turned out.


 
  
 Very clever. Very cost effective.
  
 I think regular Stax amps usually end up needing some refurb when they get to vintage status, but AFAICT the SRD-7 is pretty much indestructible. Not sure most "headphone amps" would drive it well, but the Audio GD Master 9 is rated as being quite powerful. 
  
Glad you're liking the L700. It seems to be hitting a sweet spot in the lineup for those of us unwilling/unable to jump up to the 007 or 009 (and the level of amps they need.) Eager to hear it myself someday. Hoping to get to Canlanta in May and that someone will have an L700 there.


----------



## zolkis

jjacq said:


> My L700 arrived and I'm quite pleased with the sound.
> Obviously not as airy or 3 dimensional compared to my two cans but I find it quite resolving. The midrange is extremely smooth and the decay is unmatched. It's a little bit on the bright side but it's enough to still call neutral. The downside to this is that the subbass is nothing substantial but midbass is there and it's quite enough for indie/acoustic recordings which I use them for.
> 
> If anyone's curious about the chain: Schiit GMB > Audio GD Master 9 > SRD7 > L700.


 
  
 With a good dedicated Stax amp both the treble smoothness and the sub/bass will improve, but your notes will be still valid. With that, I think the L700 is the best Lambda so far. Listen to it for 3 weeks and it will change the way you enjoy the music . The 009 and 007Mk1 are better (3D stage, smoother sound, better bass, more natural instrument rendering, etc), but for a big price difference.


----------



## Tinkerer

zolkis said:


> With a good dedicated Stax amp both the treble smoothness and the sub/bass will improve, but your notes will be still valid. With that, I think the L700 is the best Lambda so far. Listen to it for 3 weeks and it will change the way you enjoy the music . The 009 and 007Mk1 are better (3D stage, smoother sound, better bass, more natural instrument rendering, etc), but for a big price difference.


 
  
 L700 is actually more expensive than a 007 Mk 1 depending on where you get them.


----------



## zolkis

tinkerer said:


> L700 is actually more expensive than a 007 Mk 1 depending on where you get them.


 
  
 But the 007 Mk1 will sound dark with most amps with which the L700 will still sound good. Price comparison is not fair: used vs new, likely-remote vs likely-local, but certainly there is a combination when L700 is more expensive. The (new) 007A would be a more fair comparison point, on the same PJ it's considerably more expensive, and if we factor in the amp cost as well, it's much, way much more.


----------



## edstrelow

jjacq said:


> My L700 arrived and I'm quite pleased with the sound. I'm just gonna paste what I said about it from another place:
> 
> I had sold my Ether to "sidegrade" to an estat and I'm quite pleased with how this performs. Obviously not as airy or 3 dimensional compared to my two cans but I find it quite resolving. The midrange is extremely smooth and the decay is unmatched. It's a little bit on the bright side but it's enough to still call neutral. The downside to this is that the subbass is nothing substantial but midbass is there and it's quite enough for indie/acoustic recordings which I use them for. I bought these to get my feet wet when it comes to estats and because it was reported to have similar technology to the SR009, I figured it's something worth trying out.
> 
> ...




I am interested that you chose to use the old SRd7 transformer to drive these phones. At one point I would have said that you need a dedicated estat headphone amp but I have had very good results with a mains operated SRD6 on a SR5 and prefer this to the SRM1mk2 amp I would otherwise use for these phones. The transformer gives a lot better dynamics.

The trick was to apply 6 small pieces of self-stick sorbothane cut from a larger piece under the SRD6. Evidently there is a considerable problem of microphonics with the SRD6 and I would guess possibly the 7 as well. I don't recommend the more commonly used sorbothane footers as I have never got as much improvement as with pieces of self-stick. A small sheet can be had for less than$10.00 online,


----------



## astrostar59

Has Tyll changed his mind on the 009s?
  
 I am surprised by his review here. I agree the 009s can be a bit of a challenge in the treble energy area, but get it right with carefully chosen DAC and Stat amp and I firmly believe it is still one of the best out there. If the HE-1000 can make every recording sound good (soft?) is it stamping a warm cuddly signature over everything?
  
 Thoughts anyone who has heard both the 009s and the HE-1000s....
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-finale-headphones#KsJP65gyxctXIsmK.97


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> Has Tyll changed his mind on the 009s?
> 
> I am surprised by his review here. I agree the 009s can be a bit of a challenge in the treble energy area, but get it right with carefully chosen DAC and Stat amp and I firmly believe it is still one of the best out there. If the HE-1000 can make every recording sound good (soft?) is it stamping a warm cuddly signature over everything?
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, he totally flipped, at least from what I recall. He raved when he first heard them, paired with a BHSE -- a somewhat bright pairing, but an excellent amp. And he rated 009 much higher than 007 there (even though BHSE voicing is more tuned to 009). 2nd time it was paired with a KGSS, and the 007 that time was modded and got a special EQ treatment. I've heard amps that make the 009 sound a lot less appealing, and I can see an opinion flip due to a big time gap and an amp upheaval like that. But you know...also he's allowed to change his opinions, just like the rest of us.
  
 A while ago I heard Purk's HE1000 at my place (w/ balanced dynahi, which is a freaking AWESOME amp), and they're real nice but I didn't feel like they could supersede my 009. Maybe as an alternative system, if I had the money burning a hole in my pocket (and I kinda do now). But to be honest, I also felt like I was getting a bit of listening fatigue from them, even though tonally they're warm/lush.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

I've heard the HE-1000 at a meet last year.  May be it was the noise environment and the unfamiliar music, but I wasn't impressed with it at all.  Sounded normal, nothing remarkable.  I do agree with Tyll's ranking the HD800 mod over it.  Giving the HE1K price, I looked somewhere else.
  
 I paired the 009 with the KGSSHV and it became my best headphones, ever.  Haven't heard the Orpheuses(?) so it has to be the best for me.  Not too bright nor too forward; the bass comes out just right, not bloated or weak.  But the clarity of the 009 that floored me.  Refer 009 over 007 any day.  Anyone knows about Bob Katz Mod for the 007 mentioned by Tyll??


----------



## JimL11

There's a link to the 007 Mk2 mod in the Big Sound 2015 Finale summary post on InnerFidelity.  It's basically using BluTak to block the port that is formed by the opening next to the wiring.  The thread on the mod is on the other web site that shall not be named.


----------



## joseph69

mulveling said:


> Yeah, he totally flipped, at least from what I recall. He raved when he first heard them, paired with a BHSE -- a somewhat bright pairing, but an excellent amp. And he rated 009 much higher than 007 there (even though BHSE voicing is more tuned to 009). 2nd time it was paired with a KGSS, and the 007 that time was modded and got a special EQ treatment. I've heard amps that make the 009 sound a lot less appealing, and I can see an opinion flip due to a big time gap and an amp upheaval like that. But you know...also he's allowed to change his opinions, just like the rest of us.
> 
> A while ago I heard Purk's HE1000 at my place (w/ balanced dynahi, which is a freaking AWESOME amp), and they're real nice but I didn't feel like they could supersede my 009. Maybe as an alternative system, if I had the money burning a hole in my pocket (and I kinda do now). But to be honest, I also felt like I was getting a bit of listening fatigue from them, even though tonally they're warm/lush.


 
(HERE) is the link to the mod which was mentioned in post #8276 by @astrostar59 from Birgir.


----------



## di_andrei

Oh my - haven't been here in a few months and there's new Stax products!
  
 Went to the Stax website and looked through the brochures, can't quite figure out where the new products fit in.
  
 The SRM-353X - is it a 323S replacement? The 323 appears to still be available. Is the 353X better? Has anyone tried the new 353X with a higher-end ear speaker like a 007Mk 1 / 2 or 009? What are the impressions?
  
 The SR-L700 looks expensive, but according to some marketing blurb appears to be using the same diaphragm as a 009? (This does not appear to be the case with the SR-L500 - is this supposed to replace the SR-507?). I'm off to read the impressions thread but would appreciate some feedback on the questions above.


----------



## lojay

astrostar59 said:


> Has Tyll changed his mind on the 009s?
> 
> I am surprised by his review here. I agree the 009s can be a bit of a challenge in the treble energy area, but get it right with carefully chosen DAC and Stat amp and I firmly believe it is still one of the best out there. If the HE-1000 can make every recording sound good (soft?) is it stamping a warm cuddly signature over everything?
> 
> ...




Fed with top flight amplification, the HE1000 is not in the same league as the SR009 in terms of transient response, imaging accuracy, details, treble, and above all, transparency and naturalness. I would preface that by saying that this is my personal experience with the DIYT2 driving the SR009 and the EC445 and Teton driving the HE1000. Some like Roy suggest that the HE1000 sounds best driven directly by a DAC like the Chord DAVE and Total DACs but I have not tried that yet.

I note that SR009 needs a stellar amp, and even with the KGSSHV I found it to be too close to the HE1000 in terms of tonality, transparency and realism to justify the label "best headphone in the world". I haven't heard the BHSE, but with the T2 it is on a totally different playing field from the HE1000 even taking into account the point about brightness. The SR009's treble is simply more detailed, incisive, quick, sparkly and natural sounding, and with the T2 its tonality is spot on, with only a small but negligible hint of brightness. The HE1000 has its treble issues as well, generally I find it has a more metallic and rough sounding treble response whereas the SR009 is more natural.

My HE1000 is only better when it comes to the height of the soundstage and the subterranean bass, but the bass of the SR009 is absolutely no slouch in comparison- it's just more precise and pin pointed as opposed to HE1000's wall of bass effect.


----------



## 3X0

astrostar59 said:


> Has Tyll changed his mind on the 009s?
> 
> I am surprised by his review here. I agree the 009s can be a bit of a challenge in the treble energy area, but get it right with carefully chosen DAC and Stat amp and I firmly believe it is still one of the best out there. If the HE-1000 can make every recording sound good (soft?) is it stamping a warm cuddly signature over everything?
> 
> ...


I don't believe the sentiment to be very uncommon. There are more than a few individuals of significant repute who were initially taken with the SR-009 but grew dissatisfied over longer listening.

I agree with Tyll's opinion of the 007 vs 009, and I don't think it's an uncommon one. I think the SR-007 would have ranked higher if the listeners carefully adjusted it properly to their specific head. It's interesting Tyll only calls out the Abyss for having a temperamental fit when the SR-007 is also a pretty bad offender in this respect.

Re: the HE-1000 I thought it sounded way too polite to be interesting. I prefer a well-driven HE-6.


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> Yeah, he totally flipped, at least from what I recall. He raved when he first heard them, paired with a BHSE -- a somewhat bright pairing, but an excellent amp. And he rated 009 much higher than 007 there (even though BHSE voicing is more tuned to 009). 2nd time it was paired with a KGSS, and the 007 that time was modded and got a special EQ treatment. I've heard amps that make the 009 sound a lot less appealing, and I can see an opinion flip due to a big time gap and an amp upheaval like that. But you know...also he's allowed to change his opinions, just like the rest of us.
> 
> A while ago I heard Purk's HE1000 at my place (w/ balanced dynahi, which is a freaking AWESOME amp), and they're real nice but I didn't feel like they could supersede my 009. Maybe as an alternative system, if I had the money burning a hole in my pocket (and I kinda do now). But to be honest, I also felt like I was getting a bit of listening fatigue from them, even though tonally they're warm/lush.


 

 Thanks for that information Mulveling. I have the KGSShv Sanyo as you know, and am probably getting a KGSShv Carbon this year. This is why I was wondering if I should invest more in the 009 setup or there was a 'easy' option with the HE-1000s. By easy option I mean you can drive Planars with conventional amps and they are probably cheaper to buy for the same quality. Having said that, if the 009 is still ahead of the rest of the pack, I will stay with it. Personally I am very happy with them TBH. The gap between the better recorded material and poor stuff is wider than the 007s or any other headphone I have tried so far, and that can be a good our a bad thing. If the HE-1000 dumps a rosy glow over everything that may not be my cup of tea. I would rather have those better recording stay stratospheric. Long listening sessions last summer with my 007s was nice, but I was missing the level of detail and depth and excitement of the 009s. It is this that gets me closer to real music IMO.
  
 My hope is a Carbon will get me even higher up the ladder without adding treble energy or loosing bass. We shall see.


----------



## zolkis

IMHO the 009 does everything better than the HEK, including bass under 30 Hz, as far as music is played. To my ears, the 009 sounds more consistent, integral, natural and resolved. The HEK competes more with the 007 Mk1 and mostly betters it except that it has harder upper mids and a loose, detached bass. For that reason I preferred even my modded 007 Mk1 over the HEK. Not to say the HEK sounds bad, but it sounds off compared to the best Stax, especially with instruments. If someone would fix the HEK's problems, it would be one of the finest, the yin of the Stax' yang.


----------



## astrostar59

zolkis said:


> IMHO the 009 does everything better than the HEK, including bass under 30 Hz, as far as music is played. To my ears, the 009 sounds more consistent, integral, natural and resolved. The HEK competes more with the 007 Mk1 and mostly betters it except that it has harder upper mids and a loose, detached bass. For that reason I preferred even my modded 007 Mk1 over the HEK. Not to say the HEK sounds bad, but it sounds off compared to the best Stax, especially with instruments. If someone would fix the HEK's problems, it would be one of the finest, the yin of the Stax' yang.


 
  

  
 Interesting. I notice Steve Hoffman's review he uses the 6K USD McIntosh headphone amplifier. So in that case a BHSE is about the same if we ignore the DAC in the McIntosh. I think the 'trouble' some folk have had with the 009 is it requires a really good source and amplifier, as it is so transparent and fast. It can come across as a bit sterile and cold otherwise.
  


 Here is my tweaked up DAC 4.1. The Audio Note UK DAC 5.1 digital board is the latest update.
  
 I have 'tamed' or as I like to call it 'system matched' my own 009 with an Audio Note DAC. It is really well matched as the R-2R DAC is very smooth in the treble, and has great bass and excellent midrange, less 'hi-fi' sounding than some modern DS DACs. I would love to here the T2 to see just how far the 009 can go. It seems to grow with any system tweaks, for example any upgrades I have made to my DAC is instantly reflected in the headphones. This say to me it has more to offer yet....


----------



## krumley7882

j
 Just heard my first ever electrostat at a NC Meet today!  It was the SR009 played through this beast.  Holy.  These are incredible headphones.  I had to literally look around the room to make sure a band was not playing live.  It was a binaural recording that started with hand claps and slowly the instruments came into the song.  This was the farthest from my traditional headphone experience from anything I have heard.  Truly incredible!  I did feel like the soundstage was slightly behind my ears, but the experience was incredible.


----------



## plektret

Has anyone compared L700 with HE560? I currently own HE560 and will probably purchase L700 soon.


----------



## Pale Rider

krumley7882 said:


> j
> Just heard my first ever electrostat at a NC Meet today!  It was the SR009 played through this beast.  Holy.  These are incredible headphones.  I had to literally look around the room to make sure a band was not playing live.  It was a binaural recording that started with hand claps and slowly the instruments came into the song.  This was the farthest from my traditional headphone experience from anything I have heard.  Truly incredible!  I did feel like the soundstage was slightly behind my ears, but the experience was incredible.


 







 Yeah, that's what it's like. What was the recording?


----------



## georgelai57

Anyone use a Woo Audio Wee with their SR-507 and what would be a good affordable integrated amp below $1,000 to go with it? The amp doesn't need fancy features other than a couple of RCA input; no DAC, phono input etc. One single pair of speaker outputs is sufficient. Thanks.


----------



## purk

lojay said:


> Fed with top flight amplification, the HE1000 is not in the same league as the SR009 in terms of transient response, imaging accuracy, details, treble, and above all, transparency and naturalness. I would preface that by saying that this is my personal experience with the DIYT2 driving the SR009 and the EC445 and Teton driving the HE1000. Some like Roy suggest that the HE1000 sounds best driven directly by a DAC like the Chord DAVE and Total DACs but I have not tried that yet.
> 
> I note that SR009 needs a stellar amp, and even with the KGSSHV I found it to be too close to the HE1000 in terms of tonality, transparency and realism to justify the label "best headphone in the world". I haven't heard the BHSE, but with the T2 it is on a totally different playing field from the HE1000 even taking into account the point about brightness. The SR009's treble is simply more detailed, incisive, quick, sparkly and natural sounding, and with the T2 its tonality is spot on, with only a small but negligible hint of brightness. The HE1000 has its treble issues as well, generally I find it has a more metallic and rough sounding treble response whereas the SR009 is more natural.
> 
> My HE1000 is only better when it comes to the height of the soundstage and the subterranean bass, but the bass of the SR009 is absolutely no slouch in comparison- it's just more precise and pin pointed as opposed to HE1000's wall of bass effect.


 
 Can't agree with your more on the SR009 vs. HE1000 comparison.  Also in agreement with the SR009+T2 as well.


----------



## DivergeUnify

plektret said:


> Has anyone compared L700 with HE560? I currently own HE560 and will probably purchase L700 soon.


I found the L700s much more natural sounding


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> Thanks for that information Mulveling. I have the KGSShv Sanyo as you know, and am probably getting a KGSShv Carbon this year. This is why I was wondering if I should invest more in the 009 setup or there was a 'easy' option with the HE-1000s. By easy option I mean you can drive Planars with conventional amps and they are probably cheaper to buy for the same quality. Having said that, if the 009 is still ahead of the rest of the pack, I will stay with it. Personally I am very happy with them TBH. The gap between the better recorded material and poor stuff is wider than the 007s or any other headphone I have tried so far, and that can be a good our a bad thing. If the HE-1000 dumps a rosy glow over everything that may not be my cup of tea. I would rather have those better recording stay stratospheric. Long listening sessions last summer with my 007s was nice, but I was missing the level of detail and depth and excitement of the 009s. It is this that gets me closer to real music IMO.
> 
> My hope is a Carbon will get me even higher up the ladder without adding treble energy or loosing bass. We shall see.


 
 I hope you do go through with a Carbon. I've become increasingly impressed with its performance and musicality, over time. Lately I've been playing with the L3000 and HD650 (again) out of some very nice amplification (both tube and SS), and though they're both really nice sounding (in completely different ways), it reminds me that 1. the Stax headphones are far cleaner and more detailed and 2. the 009//007/L700 out of a top amplifier is by far the _*least*_ fatiguing listening experience I've had in head-fi. I was never bothered by 009 "brightness" with a good KGSShv, and especially not with Carbon -- in fact I can probably listen longer to 009 than with 007. Dynamics always end up wearing me down in some way or another. I get way more details with way less fatigue; can listen for hours with no worries or discomfort. I did forget that the L3000 has a *hellacious* amount of energy, when played relatively loud. It's exhilerating for a bit, but you can't do it for too long!


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> I hope you do go through with a Carbon. I've become increasingly impressed with its performance and musicality, over time. Lately I've been playing with the L3000 and HD650 (again) out of some very nice amplification (both tube and SS), and though they're both really nice sounding (in completely different ways), it reminds me that 1. the Stax headphones are far cleaner and more detailed and 2. the 009//007/L700 out of a top amplifier is by far the _*least*_ fatiguing listening experience I've had in head-fi. I was never bothered by 009 "brightness" with a good KGSShv, and especially not with Carbon -- in fact I can probably listen longer to 009 than with 007. Dynamics always end up wearing me down in some way or another. I get way more details with way less fatigue; can listen for hours with no worries or discomfort. I did forget that the L3000 has a *hellacious* amount of energy, when played relatively loud. It's exhilerating for a bit, but you can't do it for too long!


 

 I agree with the low fatigue and the 007s / 009s. I think you listen quite loud, as I do. With my setup right now I am pretty sorted on all recordings, very few have me rushing for the volume pot.
 So your KGSShv Sanyo, you don't miss it, or want to go back to it once you got the Carbon? You running your Carbon at 20A or less?


----------



## comzee

georgelai57 said:


> Anyone use a Woo Audio Wee


 
 As far as needing an integrated head-amp to go with it, I would recommend the NFB-1AMP
 Good price vs performance. Although, picking the "best" integrated head-amp to pair with an energizer, someone probably has better recommendations.
  
 Double EDIT: @georgelai57 didn't see you also mentioned needing a "phono" input for the amp. That means you're using probably using vinyl?
 Might be hard to find a "good modern" amp with a phono input. You can get phono input amps anywhere, but a "good modern" one, that's probs expensive.


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> I agree with the low fatigue and the 007s / 009s. I think you listen quite loud, as I do. With my setup right now I am pretty sorted on all recordings, very few have me rushing for the volume pot.
> So your KGSShv Sanyo, you don't miss it, or want to go back to it once you got the Carbon? You running your Carbon at 20A or less?


 
 After an initial period of going back-and forth between the Carbon, two KGSShv's, and a KGST -- with 009 and L700 -- I've settled into pretty much entirely Carbon/009 listening. It's supposed to be the best combo of the lot, it is the best, and it's the most enjoyable. I still have my other amps but haven't had any significant urges to hook them up in a while. The 450V's warmth is nice for 009, but don't over-assign value to that; the Carbon is plain better. Yeah mine is running under 20mA (and certainly _*well*_ under 20_*A*_ ); it's 17mA I believe.


----------



## rgs9200m

I would be grateful if anyone could compare the sound of the SR007 on the Carbon vs. the regular KGSS-hv. Thank you.
  
 Excuse me for rambling on in an ode to the SR007, but I just need to say this as I sit here thinking after a few nights of listening to them on my KGSShv mini...
 For some reason, I usually find myself gravitating towards my SR007 [Mark 2] because it just feels right and hits me on the right level where I just lean into the music without thinking even though I have the SR009.
  
 I may be overdoing things here, but although the SR007 may be "bettered" by other phones, nothing seems to be missing and it just gets to the heart of the music. When there is a thump in the music, it sounds just right and real. Voices just flow with sheer beauty.
  
 Instruments sound sweet and full of life. And it does all of this without going over the top with anything shrill. The SR007 is especially great to me with SACD, where I sort of feel I would not change anything to make things technically better in any area, so as not to break the spell of enjoyment.


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> After an initial period of going back-and forth between the Carbon, two KGSShv's, and a KGST -- with 009 and L700 -- I've settled into pretty much entirely Carbon/009 listening. It's supposed to be the best combo of the lot, it is the best, and it's the most enjoyable. I still have my other amps but haven't had any significant urges to hook them up in a while. The 450V's warmth is nice for 009, but don't over-assign value to that; the Carbon is plain better. Yeah mine is running under 20mA (and certainly _*well*_ under 20_*A*_ ); it's 17mA I believe.


 

 Interesting. The warmth of the Sanyo KGSShv is addictive for digital to bring things back to reality (realistic timbre, not hifi shouty). If the treble in the Carbon is smooth and not of a higher level or prominence, then I think it will be fine for me. If there is a wider soundstage and it's 'faster' then the loss of some warmth my be ok. I think I need to hear one next to my own amp to be sure.


----------



## HemiSam

mulveling said:


> I hope you do go through with a Carbon. I've become increasingly impressed with its performance and musicality, over time. Lately I've been playing with the L3000 and HD650 (again) out of some very nice amplification (both tube and SS), and though they're both really nice sounding (in completely different ways), it reminds me that 1. the Stax headphones are far cleaner and more detailed and 2. the 009//007/L700 out of a top amplifier is by far the _*least*_ fatiguing listening experience I've had in head-fi. I was never bothered by 009 "brightness" with a good KGSShv, and especially not with Carbon -- in fact I can probably listen longer to 009 than with 007. Dynamics always end up wearing me down in some way or another. I get way more details with way less fatigue; can listen for hours with no worries or discomfort. I did forget that the L3000 has a *hellacious* amount of energy, when played relatively loud. It's exhilerating for a bit, but you can't do it for too long!


 
  
 Interesting post as I recently acquired a very nice Headamp GS-1 with the Dynalo+ boards upgrade.  With the Dynalo I have rediscovered my HD650's, guitar music in particular has me smiling (was listening to Larry Carlton and Roben Ford live last night and could not put them down...).  The SS amp is good with my TH900's (probably overkill), but it particularly makes the HD650's sing.  I would not place the combination ahead of my 007A / KGST rig, but I was surprised at the synergy....very cool.
  
 HS


----------



## kevin gilmore

comzee said:


> The Wee is a design based off one from Kevin Gilmore.


 
 ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NOT.  I don't do anything (and I do mean anything) with transformers in the audio path.
 The woo wee is a srd7 done wrong.
  
 The woo ges is my design.
 And woo audio builds it very well.


----------



## bmichels

mulveling said:


> After an initial period of going back-and forth between the Carbon, two KGSShv's, and a KGST -- with 009 and L700 -- I've settled into pretty much entirely Carbon/009 listening. It's supposed to be the best combo of the lot, it is the best, and it's the most enjoyable. I still have my other amps but haven't had any significant urges to hook them up in a while. The 450V's warmth is nice for 009, but don't over-assign value to that; the Carbon is plain better. Yeah mine is running under 20mA (and certainly _*well*_ under 20_*A*_ ); it's 17mA I believe.


 
  
 too bad you could not compare them to the BHSE.  Indeed, I ordered a BHSE for my SR009, and I hope I did the right choice by choosing BHSE instead of the Carbon


----------



## mulveling

hemisam said:


> Interesting post as I recently acquired a very nice Headamp GS-1 with the Dynalo+ boards upgrade.  With the Dynalo I have rediscovered my HD650's, guitar music in particular has me smiling (was listening to Larry Carlton and Roben Ford live last night and could not put them down...).  The SS amp is good with my TH900's (probably overkill), but it particularly makes the HD650's sing.  I would not place the combination ahead of my 007A / KGST rig, but I was surprised at the synergy....very cool.
> 
> HS


 
  
 Nice -- my SS amp here is an old head-amp Gilmore Reference (2003-ish dynalo). The tube amp is an infamous (but great sounding) Singlepower SDS toaster. Especially at first, I wasn't expecting to get so much sound out of the HD650. It had been years since I'd given them a serious listen. It absolutely took be by surprise; they aren't _that_ big of a drop-off from 009/Carbon in absolute terms. Very musical headphones, and a great deal. Still, my affinity for the Stax always pulls me back before too long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 The HD650 + Dynalo pairing was a killer setup for 2003, and deservedly so. I need to get a balanced cable for the Senns to see how far they go. In all those years of searching for an endgame dynamic setup to supersede my HD650, I never felt like I found a proper "across the board" upgrade in all aspects (Qualia, R10, L3000, K1000, HP1000, Ultrasone Ed 9 (lol))...until I heard the 009 two years ago (they just work really well for me).
  


bmichels said:


> too bad you could not compare them to the BHSE.  Indeed, I ordered a BHSE for my SR009, and I hope I did the right choice by choosing BHSE instead of the Carbon


 
 I need to spend some more time with Purk's BHSE...it's been far too long. But I remember being very very impressed with its detail and of course lovely tube mids. And of course it's a work of art. To be honest I kinda want to buy one to complement my Carbon, and sell all my other electrostat amps (no point in keeping them now).


----------



## bmichels

mulveling said:


> ...I need to spend some more time with Purk's BHSE...it's been far too long. But I remember being very very impressed with its detail and of course lovely tube mids. And of course it's a work of art. To be honest I kinda want to buy one to complement my Carbon, and sell all my other electrostat amps (no point in keeping them now).


 
  OUF, I am reasured.  
  
 but what do you mean by "_want to buy one (BHSE) to complement my Carbon..._" ?  Do you expect the BHSE & the Carbon to offer a different & complementary sound ?


----------



## mulveling

bmichels said:


> OUF, I am reasured.
> 
> but what do you mean by "_want to buy one (BHSE) to complement my Carbon..._" ?  Do you expect the BHSE & the Carbon to offer a different & complementary sound ?


 
 To some degree, yes. I'm expecting a bit more mellow top end and tighter bass from the Carbon, and a more natural/beautiful midrange with the BHSE (possibly with more detail there too). But I'll have to play with them both for awhile in the same system to be sure. This would be a used-market BHSE, to be sure. You guys that wait all the way through the build cycle have the patience of a saint!


----------



## sensui123

Listening to the sr-009 that came in today with kgsshv carbon from Birgir/Mjolnir Audio....I think I need a new pair of underpants...so this is what I've been missing...I should of done this years ago...crap....real impressions will come after I unglue them from my head.


----------



## purk

sensui123 said:


> Listening to the sr-009 that came in today with kgsshv carbon from Birgir/Mjolnir Audio....I think I need a new pair of underpants...so this is what I've been missing...I should of done this years ago...crap....real impressions will come after I unglue them from my head.


 
 Get the T2 and you will never get anything done.  Congrats on the Carbon!


----------



## Pale Rider

sensui123 said:


> Listening to the sr-009 that came in today with kgsshv carbon from Birgir/Mjolnir Audio....I think I need a new pair of underpants...so this is what I've been missing...I should of done this years ago...crap....real impressions will come after I unglue them from my head.


 

 I know that feeling. Congrats.


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> I need to spend some more time with Purk's BHSE...it's been far too long. But I remember being very very impressed with its detail and of course lovely tube mids. And of course it's a work of art. To be honest I kinda want to buy one to complement my Carbon, and sell all my other electrostat amps (no point in keeping them now).


 
 I can gate crash that. I have heard David61's BHSE a few times against my KGSShv Sanyo on the same system, and it is a truly great amp. Powered by his K-01 and XF4s it sounded really special. The only bug may have been a slight coldness to the treble which I am convinced was the K-01 as David now has the Yggy and says it is better in that regard. Must be pretty perfect right now I imagine.
  
 The BHSE is quite a bit ahead of my KGSShv in midrange magic and vocals. Also crucially the soundstage is wider and the layering and 3D head stage is wider. If I had the BHSE I would probably use it instead of my amp. There is an aspect to my amp that I like though, it's warmth and the bass / dynamics. If the Carbon retains some of the Sanyo warmth, all of the bass and have a wider soundstage it may be real close to the BHSE. I won't know until I have heard one myself though. Purk is a good source for an opinion on the Carbon and BHSE. If it is as close or as good in most areas then I will be very happy indeed.
  
 From reading various recent posts at the other place, it seems the PS design on the Carbon is better than the KGSShv or KGST. I have realised the power supply is very important to the final sound by upgrading various bits in my own system and DAC. 
  
 Anyone wanting a BHSE may need to get on with it, as I think Justin is to stop on the next batch and go for a different one box amp design (not 100% sure, needs clarification).


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> Anyone wanting a BHSE may need to get on with it, as I think Justin is to stop on the next batch and go for a different one box amp design (not 100% sure, needs clarification).


 
 Justin did state after batch #5 he is going to a one box design because the two box design is too time consuming.


----------



## potkettleblack

Any more opinions about the L700 from experienced users?

Heard them twice now for short periods and seem to have it in my head that they can be little harsh or (revealing) with certain tracks to the point of being unpleasant. As we know some cans tend to brush over moments like that with a nice lick of veil paint, so I'm still unsure on what to do. I heard them with the 353x and one of the 007 amps. 

I'm very close to getting the hd800S to replace my hd650 and hd700, but don't want to regret not getting the l700! They are very special and would compliment my AB-1266 perfectly.

Take my hand, and feel my first world problem brothers.

Any opinions from people that have heard both at length would be much appreciated.


----------



## nepherte

Visited my "go-to" audio store today to audition the SR-007 and SR-009. Store turned out to be a huge disappointment. They no longer had them in stock (understandable) and were not going to continue selling, and I quote, "outdated/superceded technology". After which they tried to push my towards Audeze...Won't be visiting again any time soon.
  
 From previous listens, I'm leaning towards the SR-007. Going to pair it with a BHSE. My preferred headphone right now is the HD800 but am afraid the SR-009 will be too similar. This time, I'd like to focus on vocals and think the BHSE/SR-007 might hit that sweetspot. Any thoughts?


----------



## potkettleblack

Everyone - be sure to answer my query first as nepherte's profile picture is clearly inferior to mine.


----------



## purk

nepherte said:


> Visited my "go-to" audio store today to audition the SR-007 and SR-009. Store turned out to be a huge disappointment. They no longer had them in stock (understandable) and were not going to continue selling, and I quote, "outdated/superceded technology". After which they tried to push my towards Audeze...Won't be visiting again any time soon.
> 
> From previous listens, I'm leaning towards the SR-007. Going to pair it with a BHSE. My preferred headphone right now is the HD800 but am afraid the SR-009 will be too similar. This time, I'd like to focus on vocals and think the BHSE/SR-007 might hit that sweetspot. Any thoughts?


 
 More profit margin for them I guess.


----------



## zolkis

When I tested the 507 vs the HD800, I preferred the Stax, even though the HD800 was technically superior (more neutral, less bloom, more controlled, etc) and with better sound stage. However, the 507 had a midrange soul the HD800 did not have. I liked better how instruments sounded on the 507.
  
 The HD800S is an improved version of the HD800, but the L700 is a much improved version of the 507 (apart from the Lambda form factor they have nothing in common).
 So I guess (since I have not heard the HD800S) that I'd prefer the L700, but would need to spend time with both for making a judgement.
  
 Now it is true the L700 can be a little harsh, especially with the 353X it was, but it sounds smooth with the 007t MkII. The tube Stax amps (006, 007t) are smoother, and 3rd party tube Stax amps may be even better (the Erik Konka amp was). 
  
 I am certain though the Sennheiser can be more harsh than the L700.
  
 If you have something for the Stax (IIRC in my case it was the lifelikeness of wind instruments and trumpets that turned me to Stax), then it's enough reason to go for the L700. 
 I preferred even the Stax 207 over the HD800, and I didn't have any treble complaints with 5 of the HD800 out of the 6 pieces I have heard. So it's a personal preference.
  
 If you are going to have a good amp with the HD800S, it may be a technically superior (and more versatile) choice again, but it is you who have to make a choice, and you need to go through the decision path yourself, meaning that you need to listen to both.


----------



## nepherte

potkettleblack said:


> Everyone - be sure to answer my query first as nepherte's profile picture is clearly inferior to mine.


 
  
 Clearly inferior. No need to state the obvious


----------



## zolkis

nepherte said:


> From previous listens, I'm leaning towards the SR-007. Going to pair it with a BHSE. My preferred headphone right now is the HD800 but am afraid the SR-009 will be too similar. This time, I'd like to focus on vocals and think the BHSE/SR-007 might hit that sweetspot. Any thoughts?


 
  
 No, the 009 is nothing like the HD800.
 And in stock form, the 007 is quite much darker, and its fans are a narrow niche group compared to 009 owners. Make sure you belong there . The 009 is a safer choice to have.
  
 Although reports are the newer 007A (Japan) are much better, I am 90% sure I have heard the new version and they still sound darker. The BHSE will make them sing though.
  
 Probably I have said irritatingly too many times that I like my 007 Mk1 used with modded 009 ear pads more than the 009 most of the time, but that's only one person . Nevertheless, the 007 has a liveliness and musical soul and tactility I didn't find at this extent with the 009 with the music I like, even though the 009 sounds more true to the timbre and is a technically (i.e. concerning measurements) superior headphone.
  
 If it's between a Carbon + 009 and the BHSE + 007A, it would be a hard choice... . 
  
 One more thing, make sure the 007 is comfortable for you, I heard people who have problems with it. The 009 is in turn comfortable for most, except for the ones fine with the 007 comfort, and those would likely prefer the 007 because it's lighter.
 The 007 also has the peculiarity that you must adjust the headband to your own skull, and setting that to optimum means a lot of difference. There is no such issue with the 009.


----------



## soren_brix

zolkis said:


> Although reports are the newer 007A (Japan) are much better,


 
 How many have actually reported that?


----------



## zolkis

soren_brix said:


> How many have actually reported that?


 
  
 I have seen quite many trusted persons saying that both here and on the other sides. I trust that information (though the extent of the alleged improvement is uncertain), especially since - as I said - I am pretty sure I have heard it too, and it's indeed more listenable, but it's still dark. The good question is whether the BHSE can breath it to a better life than the old 007 Mk2.
  
 As to what extent is it more listenable - I think it does cross the line between _too dark_ and _listenable dark_, at least for me. However, the real improvement (opening up, better bass, more musical, better stage) was on my 007 Mk1 when I got right the stuffing in the 009 ear pad I am using it with.
  
 [Edit]
 I must add that I think most differences come from the pads. The Mk1 pads are quite different from the Mk2 pads. I happen to have both, and from memory I'd say the 007 Mk1 with the new Mk2 pads sounds probably the same or very similar as the new 007 with its new pad. Nevertheless Stax might (and probably are) using a different sheet (if not source) for the diaphragm as well .
  
 To conclude this: you shouldn't care about the alleged differences between 007 variants. They are from the same sound anyway. Just listen to them and judge based on that. If you see a Mk1 for sale, it's probably the same or better than the new 007. The 009 ear pads make a far bigger difference on the 007 than these small variations.


----------



## nepherte

zolkis said:


> No, the 009 is nothing like the HD800.
> And in stock form, the 007 is quite much darker, and its fans are a narrow niche group compared to 009 owners. Make sure you belong there . The 009 is a safer choice to have.


 
  
 Thanks. I am aware the 007 is darker. Based on my brief listens, I think I belong in that group. Hopefully I will be able to audition them for a longer period but these things are hard to come by in my country. Then again, that's why they invented business trips


----------



## zolkis

While here, please forgive me but I need to mention that if you want improved bass out of your 009 on the expense of very slightly less 2 kHz emphasis, try fitting a small piece of 3-4 mm thick, about 8-12 mm wide and about a quarter perimeter long Sorbothane under the ear pad and dust cloth, directly on the metallic grid, on the back lower quarter of the ear pad. You can also use a piece of 4 mm wool felt on the same spot (about 10 mm wide and crescent shape of about 1/4 perimeter long).
  
 These will effect in two ways:
 1. by elevating the ear pad a bit, pushing the driver slighly farther from the ear. The effect is much lower on the 009 than on the 007.
 2. by damping the metallic grid resonances. Sorbothane is doing that much more efficiently.
  
 You can do the back upper quarter as well, but in my experience one quarter makes a sensible improvement while not changing much the character of the sound.


----------



## HemiSam

LMAO....I was waiting for that last plug.
  
  





  
 HS


----------



## itstillworks

Hello,
  
 I got to try the Stax SR-009 headphones at the 2016 CanJam in SoCal. Since they are a start-up company, I didn't have very high expectations when I sat down to try their phones, but I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised! As a beginner audiophile maybe my opinion would be different than others, but these stuck out to me for some reason.. I really, really liked them for the superb detail and "pure"-sounding sound quality, and I was tempted to buy them even amongst the many other headphone competitors. 
  
 Another thing is.. They weren't full of themselves to the point of being rude, like some of the big brands that were there.. Which isn't relevant to the sound quality, but it was another thing that stuck out to me and made me like the company more.
  
 I recommend them.


----------



## HemiSam

Oh boy....
  

  
  
  
 HS


----------



## adrenalight

zolkis said:


> When I tested the 507 vs the HD800, I preferred the Stax, even though the HD800 was technically superior (more neutral, less bloom, more controlled, etc) and with better sound stage. However, the 507 had a midrange soul the HD800 did not have. I liked better how instruments sounded on the 507.
> 
> The HD800S is an improved version of the HD800, but the L700 is a much improved version of the 507 (apart from the Lambda form factor they have nothing in common).
> So I guess (since I have not heard the HD800S) that I'd prefer the L700, but would need to spend time with both for making a judgement.
> ...


 
 Could you share with us the detail on how the L700 is a much improved version of the 507? I have a 507 with a modded 727, and is the 700 worth considering an upgrade? The price difference in my region is huge btw, the L700's price double the 507's. I have never had a chance to listening to the L700 before, but one of my friends did listened to them at Can Jam Singapore and told me that the difference is not huge.


----------



## adrenalight

itstillworks said:


> Hello,
> 
> I got to try the Stax SR-009 headphones at the 2016 CanJam in SoCal. Since they are a start-up company, I didn't have very high expectations when I sat down to try their phones, but I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised! As a beginner audiophile maybe my opinion would be different than others, but these stuck out to me for some reason.. I really, really liked them for the superb detail and "pure"-sounding sound quality, and I was tempted to buy them even amongst the many other headphone competitors.
> 
> ...


 
 Stax is not a start-up company dude, they were aroud from like, the 40's...


----------



## bearFNF

@zolkis How can you say HD800S are better when you have not heard them. I have and did not find them better, I actually prefer the HD800. The S were not better IMO.


----------



## paradoxper

Because this is Head-Fi.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Start-up company, you made my day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## zolkis

bearfnf said:


> @zolkis How can you say HD800S are better when you have not heard them. I have and did not find them better, I actually prefer the HD800. The S were not better IMO.


 
  
  
 You may disqualify my opinion on this ground -- I gave way to that choice anyway by saying I haven't heard them and I would need to spend time with them to make a judgement. I think it was clear. 
  
 In the context of that argument, perhaps I should have said "even if the HD800S _was_ better". Thanks for reminding on that not everyone considers the S to be better.
  
 I am pretty sure though if the reports are right and the S has less 6 kHz peak and slightly more bass, and slightly more focused stage, that would mean I consider it better.
  
 Anyway, none of that changes any points I raised: I'd choose the L700 over the HD800 and S, but its a personal preference, and people should walk the decision path themselves by listen to both.


----------



## zolkis

adrenalight said:


> Could you share with us the detail on how the L700 is a much improved version of the 507?
> one of my friends did listened to them at Can Jam Singapore and told me that the difference is not huge.


 
  
 The differences I hear are mainly these:
 - the 507 sounds more ethereal in the midrange, the L700 has more body
 - the 507 sounds a bit off (or hard) in the upper midrange (compared to the 007 is obvious), but the L700 didn't seem to have that.
 - the 507 bass is a bit different, bites a slight bit more around 100 Hz but the L700 seem to go deeper with more linearity
 - I didn't have a problem with my own 507's treble, but the L700 treble seems to be finer and more extended. However, the L700 is still not at the level of the Omegas on this.
  
 Overall the L700 is more balanced and better sounding and I consider it the best Lambda ever made. However, one could say the 507 is a better buy. I don't know how the 507 compares with the L500, but from memory and extrapolation I think the 507 may be better -- but this needs to be verified.
  
 Whether the price is OK or not -- I am sure many people would prefer it over the 007 Mk2 which sounds darker. I don't like dark sounding headphones, or better said I like open sounding headphones, so if I got the L700 at the start, probably I would have never looked at the 007 and 009.
  
 It was the darkness of the 007 (while being better than the 507) that started me on exploring ear pad mods on the 007, and I got hooked on them after I could get them right (or better) and they got more head time even after I got my 009.


----------



## zolkis

itstillworks said:


> Hello,
> 
> I got to try the Stax SR-009 headphones at the 2016 CanJam in SoCal. Since they are a start-up company, I didn't have very high expectations when I sat down to try their phones, but I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised!


 
  
 It is not clear whether you referred to the demonstrating company as a startup, or to Stax. 
 Nevertheless, it may be true that however old the Stax company is, they may still work like a startup -- most Japanese high end audio manufacturers do. In the 20th century these "startups" made an audiophile paradise of horn speakers and single ended triode amps, with hundreds of different designs explored over the years. It would certainly be worth a PhD studying and evaluating that amazing heritage.


----------



## adrenalight

zolkis said:


> The differences I hear are mainly these:
> - the 507 sounds more ethereal in the midrange, the L700 has more body
> - the 507 sounds a bit off (or hard) in the upper midrange (compared to the 007 is obvious), but the L700 didn't seem to have that.
> - the 507 bass is a bit different, bites a slight bit more around 100 Hz but the L700 seem to go deeper with more linearity
> ...


 
 Thank you for the information. I have heard the 007 and 009 multiple time, and similar to your findings, find the 007 too dark for my liking, although they are a superb pair of headphones. After having the information about the L700, I guess that for me the 700 is not an optimal upgrade, the improve sound just doesn't justify the double price tag, and I love the 507's metal frame. I guess that it is time to start saving for the 009


----------



## icebear

ali-pacha said:


> Start-up company, you made my day
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 +1 LOL


----------



## Sko0byDoo

ali-pacha said:


> Start-up company, you made my day
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can I get a SR-009 thru indiegogo or kickstart, discounted?


----------



## astrostar59

Jeeze, I get really worried when we have such nonsense on here! No disinformation...


----------



## potkettleblack

astrostar59 said:


> Jeeze, I get really worried when we have such nonsense on here! No disinformation...


Thank god you're here to restore balance... We'd be doomed otherwise.


----------



## jminchoi

I also got to try the Stax for the first time at the Socal canjam, and really enjoyed the Lambda 507s. For the owners of Stax gear out there, how do the headphones hold up over time? The sound was excellent but they felt a bit fragile. Audeze were built like a tank, but way to heavy for me.


----------



## Spirulina780

jminchoi said:


> I also got to try the Stax for the first time at the Socal canjam, and really enjoyed the Lambda 507s. For the owners of Stax gear out there, how do the headphones hold up over time? The sound was excellent but they felt a bit fragile. Audeze were built like a tank, but way to heavy for me.


 
 I have read numerous times, that people take out their 30+ year old Stax headphones, to compare them to other equipment. I think Stax will outlast everything else you own.


----------



## VandyMan

I'm planning to get new headphones just for TV/movies. I'm debating between the Sennheiser 800S and the Stax L-700.  I'm leaning towards the Sennheiser 800S for comfort, bass, and sound stage.  I think great bass and sound stage benefit a lot of movies. Any opinions?

 I'm going to audition the 800S, but probably will not get a chance to try the L-700 any time soon. I use my Stax 009s on a different system for music listening.


----------



## VandyMan

jminchoi said:


> I also got to try the Stax for the first time at the Socal canjam, and really enjoyed the Lambda 507s. For the owners of Stax gear out there, how do the headphones hold up over time? The sound was excellent but they felt a bit fragile. Audeze were built like a tank, but way to heavy for me.


 
  
 I've had my Stax phones for about 1.5 years. I'm a klutz and have dropped them half a dozen times onto my carpeted floor. No issues so far. My Audeze 2.1 phones (bought new, can't remember the year) have had the cables replaced three times, the headband twice, and the ear pads once, but no problems with the drivers.


----------



## potkettleblack

vandyman said:


> I'm planning to get new headphones just for TV/movies. I'm debating between the Sennheiser 800S and the Stax L-700.  I'm leaning towards the Sennheiser 800S for comfort, bass, and sound stage.  I think great bass and sound stage benefit a lot of movies. Any opinions?
> 
> 
> I'm going to audition the 800S, but probably will not get a chance to try the L-700 any time soon. I use my Stax 009s on a different system for music listening.


I actually did this comparison with the new avengers film when I last visited my dealers shop. Both were great but the L700 won this for me. I'm still strongly considering the HD800S because of the price and it being more suited to gaming - but to hear the details and that 'Stax realism' with film effects and dialogue really impressed me. The smaller head stage really didn't seem to hold anything back either.


----------



## jminchoi

Good to know. My favorite cans of the show were the 507s. So comfy and for Stax a good bang for the buck.


----------



## soren_brix

vandyman said:


> I'm planning to get new headphones just for TV/movies. I'm debating between the Sennheiser 800S and the Stax L-700.  I'm leaning towards the Sennheiser 800S for comfort, bass, and sound stage.  I think great bass and sound stage benefit a lot of movies. Any opinions?
> 
> I'm going to audition the 800S, but probably will not get a chance to try the L-700 any time soon. I use my Stax 009s on a different system for music listening.


 
 Fully agree with your point of view.
 I watched the moon landing back then using my Stax SR-1.
 Even though the earspeakers wasn't really connected to the CRT (A Philips 23" Panorama, just aquired, at the time), the earspeakers really added to the sound stage and all. It was almost like Louis Armstrong was jumping in front of me ... he did look at bit pale though....anyways, the sound resolution was so good that I could hear control center calling him Niel ... don't think the general public really noticed that, all his records has his name as Louis! ... those Stax really reveal those small details, sweet,right?


----------



## wink

soren_brix said:


> Fully agree with your point of view.
> I watched the moon landing back then using my Stax SR-1.
> Even though the earspeakers wasn't really connected to the CRT (A Philips 23" Panorama, just aquired, at the time), the earspeakers really added to the sound stage and all. It was almost like Louis Armstrong was jumping in front of me ... he did look at bit pale though....anyways, the sound resolution was so good that I could hear control center calling him Niel ... don't think the general public really noticed that, all his records has his name as Louis! ... those Stax really reveal those small details, sweet,right?


 
 Louis, Neil...   what's the difference....?
  
 They both soared in their own right....    One was just more musical.......


----------



## fv333

Hi !

Go easy on me as I'm a newbie here. smily_headphones1.gif
I Have a pair of Stax SR507's running off a Stax SRM 310 (I know...but all I can afford at the mo').
The sound quality is actually really good...initially.....but after about 20 mins or so of playing music the left channel distorts!
Has anyone any Idea what the problem may be or how I could narrow down to either Headphones or Amp
that is causing the problem.
I only have one set of Stax Phones and One Stax Amp and don't know anyone else in the area that owns
Stax equipment to test against.

Thanks and regards,

Frank


----------



## soren_brix

wink said:


> Louis, Neil...   what's the difference....?
> 
> They both soared in their own right....    One was just more musical.......


 
 might have been musical, but also a true sportsman. How many times did he conquer Tour de France? Just saying ...
  
 Just recognized that Beats is my go to phones when watching Trump ... used to wear my 009s but I couldn't really hear what the man was saying, the 009s might be a bit too honest in their presentation I guess


----------



## wink

I'm glad you DRUG that up.
  
 It was like a lance to the kidneys.
  
 In a world of lies and deceit, the SR-009 should not be able to reproduce any political speeches.  well, almost none.
  
 I'll conced that there MAY be honest politicians, lawyers and even used car salesmen.


----------



## martyn73

Hi, My new L700 headphones arrive next week which I'll be using with my SRM-006T connected to PC. Which desktop DAC is recommended? I have a Chord Mojo but it's really designed for portable use. I thought of a Chord 2Qute but they are rarely available on eBay and slightly over-budget. That leaves my Asus STX II sound card, but an external DAC may be a better option.


----------



## dannybgoode

Good morning all

Apologies if this has been covered before but I am seriously considering a top end stax setup-the 007's or 009's and am a little confused about what is needed in the chain. 

OK you need source, energiser and phones I get that but do you need an amp in between the source and energiser? 

If so what are the general recommendations for that amp? 

Budget is not an issue (within reason - say up to $2-3k for the amp). Happy to spend less of course but don't want to skimp on SQ...


----------



## bmichels

dannybgoode said:


> Good morning all
> 
> Apologies if this has been covered before but I am seriously considering a top end stax setup-the 007's or 009's and am a little confused about what is needed in the chain.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, if you can wait 1 year, then I recommend the BHSE (*Blue Hawaii* Special Edition) amp from headAmp.  
 And for your information, at every show, HeadAmp is using a laptop + the AYRE DB9 DAC to feed his BHSE Amp.


----------



## dannybgoode

bmichels said:


> Well, if you can wait 1 year, then I recommend the BHSE (*Blue Hawaii* Special Edition) amp from headAmp.
> And for your information, at every show, HeadAmp is using a laptop + the AYRE DB9 DAC to feed his BHSE Amp.




Thank you - so I need an amp as well as the 007 energiser unit or looking at the spec of the BHSE it looks possibly capable of driving them directly?


----------



## bmichels

dannybgoode said:


> Thank you - so I need an amp as well as the 007 energiser unit or looking at the spec of the BHSE it looks possibly capable of driving them directly?


 
  
 no need for the energiser if you have a BHSE
  
  
 source>DAC>BHSE>SR007
  
 or
  
 source>DAC>Speaker amplifier>energiser>SR007


----------



## astrostar59

dannybgoode said:


> Good morning all
> 
> Apologies if this has been covered before but I am seriously considering a top end stax setup-the 007's or 009's and am a little confused about what is needed in the chain.
> 
> ...


 

 You don't need a pre-amplifier or power amplifier. You just plug your Stax energiser amp into the line out of your DAC. The standard 2 volts out is fine for that.
  
 If you have the budget I would recommend you don't buy Stax and get a KGSShv or KGST (if you like valves). That will leave a Stax amp in the dust. There are second hand amps on this forum periodically. I may be selling one of my 2 KGSShv in 3 months. PM me if you are interested. Here are my 2 amps (identical) It is the one with all black heat sinks and case. They sound awesome with the 009s. It is a slightly warm sounding amp using the Sanyo FETs which combined with the slightly colder sound of the 009 creates pure magic.


----------



## rgs9200m

dannybgoode said:


> Good morning all
> 
> Apologies if this has been covered before but I am seriously considering a top end stax setup-the 007's or 009's and am a little confused about what is needed in the chain.
> 
> ...


 
 Since you are a Stax newbie, I recommend you start with the SR007 (latest version). The 009 may be too startling to someone new to Stax (or new to high end headphones in general).
 Certainly do NOT start out with an SR009 w/o hearing them first. I feel it is fine to go for the SR007 unheard.


----------



## Pale Rider

dannybgoode said:


> Good morning all
> 
> Apologies if this has been covered before but I am seriously considering a top end stax setup-the 007's or 009's and am a little confused about what is needed in the chain.
> 
> ...


 

 Others have already chimed in, but there are a plenty of amp choices for your new Stax habit, er, passion. There are a number of amps designed and built to drive Stax cans, including some relatively inexpensive choices from Stax itself. As another member already said, amps like the BHSE, and any of the KG design builds will generally leave these Stax amps in the dust [though not all of them], there is an advantage to starting with a less expensive piece and working your way up. If you can listen to a BHSE and get your hands on one without waiting a year, that's great. But here, and on the other forum, there are many good buys for new and used electrostatic amps, and I cannot imagine waiting a year. Also check out Mjölnir Audio, for builds and used stuff by Birgir Gudjonsson, also known as spritzer. All you need is source-->electrostatic amp-->cans. But that source better be up to to delivering what those Stax will reveal. Good luck.


----------



## bearFNF

Just to clarify a little, an "energizer" needs a speaker amp, you hook it up just like your speakers. The quality of that amp will affect the sound that you hear obviously. Some are using Energizer interchangeably with amp which is incorrect. Examples of a Energizer are the Woo Wee or the Stax SRD7. 

Amplifiers can drive the Stax earspeakers directly. Examples would be the BHSE, Stax SRM-727, Liquid Lightning 2, or KGSSHV.

In each case you'll need a quality source to get the best out of the Stax ear speakers.


----------



## arnaud

rgs9200m said:


> Since you are a Stax newbie, I recommend you start with the SR007 (latest version). The 009 may be too startling to someone new to Stax (or new to high end headphones in general).
> Certainly do NOT start out with an SR009 w/o hearing them first. I feel it is fine to go for the SR007 unheard.




Actually, for someone starting with stax I'd recommend the L700 over the Omega 2 (latest version whatever) any day. Easier to drive (works wonders with stax tube amps), better tonal balance than the omega 2.

It could be the end of it for many and put an end to the constant sidegrading when from one 1000+ dollars ortho to another electrodynamic phone. 

It's still a stax / estat phone though so not guaranteed to please 100% of people byt if there's one stax can that may reconcile the most with stax, it's the L700 imo.

Cheers,
Arnaud


----------



## purk

arnaud said:


> Actually, for someone starting with stax I'd recommend the L700 over the Omega 2 (latest version whatever) any day. Easier to drive (works wonders with stax tube amps), better tonal balance than the omega 2.
> 
> It could be the end of it for many and put an end to the constant sidegrading when from one 1000+ dollars ortho to another electrodynamic phone.
> 
> ...




I will recommend the L700 over the sr007 as well. Much easier to drive and it sounds very neutral to boot.


----------



## mulveling

I agree with the above sentiment about the L700. And if paired with a KGST (from the start, or eventually), it makes for a killer system. Extremely accessible, high quality sound. With one caveat -- it is not for those who value soundstage above all else (that's what the HD800 is for, lol).


----------



## potkettleblack

I'm interested to hear what people think regarding the detail retrieval of the HD800/S vs the SR009 and L700.

Thanks.


----------



## bearFNF

Did not like the HD800S (MH100 amp), it seemed off somehow, clipped maybe? Still prefer the HD800.
 Also was MEH about the L700 (SRM353X), did not think it was for me.
 SR009 (BHSE/LL2) and HD800 (Taboo MKIII/LC/LAu) are still my preference.


----------



## potkettleblack

bearfnf said:


> Did not like the HD800S (MH100 amp), it seemed off somehow, clipped maybe? Still prefer the HD800.
> Also was MEH about the L700 (SRM353X), did not think it was for me.
> SR009 (BHSE/LL2) and HD800 (Taboo MKIII/LC/LAu) are still my preference.


In your experience how would you compare the HD800 and 009 on midrange and upper-range details?


----------



## bearFNF

potkettleblack said:


> In your experience how would you compare the HD800 and 009 on midrange and upper-range details?


 

 I'd say that both of these phones are masters of detail when amped properly, the difference I have seen is in the smoothness of the presentation.
 The SR009 takes the edges and "de-burrs" them whereas the HD800 leaves the sharp edge on and can be a little harsh at times. Not sure if that helps you or not.
  
 oh, forgot to mention this weekend I am doing a comparison of the LAu and the LC and will be also comparing the LLT2 and the BHSE against the first two for kicks using the HD800 and SR009 as the phones. If I come up with more info for your question I will post it here.


----------



## purk

bearfnf said:


> I'd say that both of these phones are masters of detail when amped properly, the difference I have seen is in the smoothness of the presentation.
> The SR009 takes the edges and "de-burrs" them whereas the HD800 leaves the sharp edge on and can be a little harsh at times. Not sure if that helps you or not.


 
 The SR009 is simply more transparent in my opinion.  The HD800 only edge out the SR009 in the soundstage department.


----------



## edstrelow

vandyman said:


> I'm planning to get new headphones just for TV/movies. I'm debating between the Sennheiser 800S and the Stax L-700.  I'm leaning towards the Sennheiser 800S for comfort, bass, and sound stage.  I think great bass and sound stage benefit a lot of movies. Any opinions?
> 
> I'm going to audition the 800S, but probably will not get a chance to try the L-700 any time soon. I use my Stax 009s on a different system for music listening.


 
 Sennheiser is in the lead in the audio filed of recognizing the need for mechanical damping in headphones and this is why I believe they get good reports for soundstage.  Their advertising claims they do this damping  in the headband and this would block crosstalk between the two earcups.     This is from a current ad in Amazon "The headband consists of a sandwich design in which a metal layer is covered with several layers of plastic. The high-tech plastic possesses incredible attenuation characteristics and ensures that oscillations are not transmitted to the headphone mountings."   ( Grado is doing something similar with its new plastic used in the e -series phones with what they claim is a proprietary plastic used in the earcups rather than the headband)
  
 To be more precise, my definition of soundstage means creating a stereo image.  To do that you need to present different signals to the two ears.  To the extent that there is crosstalk, the signals become more similar and you will shrink the stereo image.
  
 Most companies, Stax, included, behind the curve on this and are basically putting out obsolete designs. However all is not lost, you can experiment with materials like  self-stick  sorbothane pieces, preferably small pieces.  Even putting it on the headbands will give some benefit to both imaging and tonal accuracy.


----------



## potkettleblack

bearfnf said:


> I'd say that both of these phones are masters of detail when amped properly, the difference I have seen is in the smoothness of the presentation.
> The SR009 takes the edges and "de-burrs" them whereas the HD800 leaves the sharp edge on and can be a little harsh at times. Not sure if that helps you or not.
> 
> oh, forgot to mention this weekend I am doing a comparison of the LAu and the LC and will be also comparing the LLT2 and the BHSE against the first two for kicks using the HD800 and SR009 as the phones. If I come up with more info for your question I will post it here.


Thanks for your reply mate.


----------



## MacedonianHero

purk said:


> The SR009 is simply more transparent in my opinion.  The HD800 only edge out the SR009 in the soundstage department.


 
 ^ I'm with purk on this too...and I would extend this to the HD800S as well; though the HD800S has improved upon that transparency.


----------



## sensui123

purk said:


> The SR009 is simply more transparent in my opinion.  The HD800 only edge out the SR009 in the soundstage department.




Agreed night and day with me still evaluating the sr009. Without going into details (still thinking of ways to put it in words)... I am already thinking of thinning out my dynamic/ortho collection. I've never been this blown away with headphones... Speakers once... Headphones never.


----------



## VandyMan

edstrelow said:


> ...experiment with materials like  self-stick  sorbothane pieces...


 
  
 You know you replied to me a couple of days ago in the Orpheus topic with almost word for word the same spiel? And before that I've seen you drop the same post at least two other times.


----------



## bearFNF

I don't think I've seen a post yet where he hasn't mentioned that word that shall not be named...


----------



## lojay

macedonianhero said:


> ^ I'm with purk on this too...and I would extend this to the HD800S as well; though the HD800S has improved upon that transparency.


 SR009 has greater and finer resolution (esp time resolution and transients) but I do feel that the HD800 is clearer. The Sennheiser HE1 has both the clarity of the HD800 and resolution and transparency of the SR009:


----------



## MacedonianHero

lojay said:


> SR009 has greater and finer resolution (esp time resolution and transients) but I do feel that the HD800 is clearer. The Sennheiser HE1 has both the clarity of the HD800 and resolution and transparency of the SR009:


 
  
 I guess we'll have to disagree (but I agree that these two headphones are among the very best for clarity and resolution into a recording)...I hear things on the SR-009s many of my favourite recordings that the Sennheisers would otherwise just barely gloss over. The imaging of the HD800/HD800S is simply the best I've heard from any headphone.


----------



## lojay

macedonianhero said:


> I guess we'll have to disagree...I hear things on the SR-009s many of my favourite recordings that the Sennheisers would otherwise just barely gloss over. The imaging of the HD800/HD800S is simply the best I've heard from any headphone.


 I think we are actually in agreement. By clarity I mean the delineation between instruments and voices, I feel the HD800 has more contrast in its sonic images. That contributes to the better imaging (though I feel SR009 images more naturally and lifelike). It's like turning up the contrast on an image in Photoshop. By resolution I mean the level of detail and "things" one hears, I think it is obvious that the SR009 is more resolving and allows you to hear stuff that is glossed over on the HD800. It's like taking a photo with a better camera and lens but not editing it in Photoshop. Sometimes I do wish the SR009 can have a blacker background and more clarity in the sense I have mentioned, as the sonic images can sometimes sound a bit diffuse.


----------



## sensui123

No doubt the hd800 stage is huge both in width and height... Biggest problem is if it's realistic..... You start doubting it after owning it for years IMO.


----------



## rgs9200m

Several here have recommended the new L700 over the SR007. I have not heard the L700 so I can't comment on the sonics, but I can say that, just for me, it seems (and everyone please correct me here if I'm wrong) to have the same physical design as the 407/507 and the old Lambda headphone.
 I had the Lambda for several years and just could not stand the feel of it since it pressed on my temples and flattened my ears annoyingly. So I would try the L700 somehow to make sure it's comfy.
 (The 007 is extremely comfy to me, and the 009 is also pretty good, but not as nice as the 007. This is for my medium size head with ears that stick out somewhat.)
  
 I put up with the Lambda because I did enjoy the interesting transparency and speed of it. The SR007 however just left the Lambda far behind and has gotten better as I moved on from the early 1999 model to the current one.
  
 My take on the HD800 (as a 6+ year owner) is that the Stax sound is (nicely) more intimate, with the HD800 images seeming more distant, and I felt I was always trying to reach out and grab the images, but I could not reach them, like it was a dream. The Stax sound is right there and very tangible. And the SR007 and SR009 musical objects are also more silky and liquid and continuous, where sometimes on the HD800 things like vocals could be vaguely sandy, especially with a solid state amp. I'm definitely on the team-Stax side of the HD800/Stax debate. The Stax sound is more musical to me.


----------



## arnaud

Yep, I really disliked lambdas till the L700. They're comfortable, much deeper pads I recall. You basically owe yourself a listen...


----------



## rgs9200m

arnaud said:


> Yep, I really disliked lambdas till the L700. They're comfortable, much deeper pads I recall. You basically owe yourself a listen...


 
 Thanks Arnaud, I really do need to try these.


----------



## purk

rgs9200m said:


> Thanks Arnaud, I really do need to try these.




It's a smooth and neutral sounding lambda. The soundstage is typical of the Lambda design but they are a very well rounded headphones. Might need to get your wallet handy tho because you will want to own one after hearing it.


----------



## comzee

purk said:


> The HD800 only edge out the SR009 in the soundstage department.


 
 The HD800 soundstage must greatly expand with a top deck amp. I have a Lehmann BCL (mid tier) powering my HD800. While the resolution and instrument separation are fantastic, and (kinda of) close to the 009, the soundstage is quite smaller.
  
 I guess this really doesn't surprise me The Carbon/Yggdrasil combo are both huge in the soundstage department. The BCL/Master7 combo I'm using with the  hd800, not really.
 I'd love to hear what the HD800 can really do in this departments based on the reports.


----------



## nemomec

potkettleblack said:


> I'm interested to hear what people think regarding the detail retrieval of the HD800/S vs the SR009 and L700.
> 
> Thanks.


 

 My experience with the HD-800 and now with the HD-800S on different setups over the last years is, that they isn´t competitive to the SR-009. The SR-009 is much more transparent, faster, has more resolution and precision, more natural sounding and has a more realistic soundstage. The SR-009 scales also extrem huge with the source, much more than any other headphones that i know. I think also that the old Sennheisers HE-60/HE-90 and the new SR-L700 do most things better than the HD-800/S. But the HD-800/S is well built and has a very good comfort for a reasonable price and i understand that many people like this model. A well built electrostatic setup, especially with the SR-009 is more expensive and needs also some time to select the right parts.


----------



## purk

comzee said:


> The HD800 soundstage must greatly expand with a top deck amp. I have a Lehmann BCL (mid tier) powering my HD800. While the resolution and instrument separation are fantastic, and (kinda of) close to the 009, the soundstage is quite smaller.
> 
> I guess this really doesn't surprise me The Carbon/Yggdrasil combo are both huge in the soundstage department. The BCL/Master7 combo I'm using with the  hd800, not really.
> I'd love to hear what the HD800 can really do in this departments based on the reports.


 
 Yes, the HD800 is even better out of a fully balanced top-end amplifiers.  The Carbon is a very good sounding balanced amp but it falls short in the soundstage depth department when compared to better amps out there.


----------



## Kiats

bearfnf said:


> Did not like the HD800S (MH100 amp), it seemed off somehow, clipped maybe? Still prefer the HD800.
> Also was MEH about the L700 (SRM353X), did not think it was for me.
> SR009 (BHSE/LL2) and HD800 (Taboo MKIII/LC/LAu) are still my preference.




Agree on the HD800S: I think what the Engineers at Senn did was to shift the entire aural spectrum downwards leaving you with more bass but with treble roll off.

Agree with you insofar as the 009 with LL2 and the HD800 with the LAu. 

Have you tried the L700 with the LL2? I quite liked the combo.


----------



## soren_brix

vandyman said:


> You know you replied to me a couple of days ago in the Orpheus topic with almost word for word the same spiel? And before that I've seen you drop the same post at least two other times.


 
 He is in the lead in the audio filed of recognizing the need for mechanical damping in headphones and this is why I believe they get good reports for soundstage.  The advertised claims do this propagation in the head-fi and this wouldn't block crosstalk between the two posts.  This is from a current post in Head-Fi "The headband consists of a sandwich design in which a metal layer is covered with several layers of plastic. The high-tech plastic possesses incredible attenuation characteristics and ensures that oscillations are not transmitted to the headphone mountings."   ( Grado is doing something similar with its new plastic used in the e -series phones with what they claim is a proprietary plastic used in the earcups rather than the headband)
  
 To be more precise, my definition of soundstage means creating a stereo image.  To do that you need to present different signals to the two ears.  To the extent that there is crosstalk, the signals become more similar and you will shrink the stereo image.
  
 Most poster, are behind the curve on this and are basically putting out obsolete postings. However all is not lost, you can experiment with materials like  self-stick  sorbothane pieces, preferably small pieces.  Even putting it on the screen will give some benefit to both imaging and tonal accuracy of the postings.


----------



## bearFNF

kiats said:


> Agree on the HD800S: I think what the Engineers at Senn did was to shift the entire aural spectrum downwards leaving you with more bass but with treble roll off.
> 
> Agree with you insofar as the 009 with LL2 and the HD800 with the LAu.
> 
> Have you tried the L700 with the LL2? I quite liked the combo.



No I have not heard the L700 on the LL2. I'd also like to hear them on the BHSE. 
I do agree that the L700 seemed more comfortable than the original Lambda as was stated in another post.


----------



## potkettleblack

nemomec said:


> My experience with the HD-800 and now with the HD-800S on different setups over the last years is, that they isn´t competitive to the SR-009. The SR-009 is much more transparent, faster, has more resolution and precision, more natural sounding and has a more realistic soundstage. The SR-009 scales also extrem huge with the source, much more than any other headphones that i know. I think also that the old Sennheisers HE-60/HE-90 and the new SR-L700 do most things better than the HD-800/S. But the HD-800/S is well built and has a very good comfort for a reasonable price and i understand that many people like this model. A well built electrostatic setup, especially with the SR-009 is more expensive and needs also some time to select the right parts.


The price is holding me back as I've just purchased the Abyss - a headphone that is continuing to blow me away. 

When I say price I mean the amp combination mostly. I loved the L700 and thought it paired very well with the 353x, all apart from the odd amount of harshness I heard. It wasn't often, but it was enough to make me question it; which from experience would end up being an issue further down the line.

I'd like to hear the L700 with the rest of the Stax amps (heard it with the 007 and thought it took some sparkle off but removed any harshness) but again before you know it, the price is starting to rise from a £1800 deal (L700+353) to an even greater amount.

Very awkward position regarding choice to make, but I think I will go with the HD800S come payday. 

It won't be long before I return to hear the L700/009/007 again with the 353x and other Stax amps again. The blue Hawaii will unfortunately never be an option. Respectfully to those that own it - I'm never going to pay that much for an amp alone and would never be willing to wait a year for it to be delivered. I know headintheclouds and Spritzer make great amps - but I'm very paranoid about failure and long term support. This is nothing personal against those two users, and not something I have completely ruled out. 

The combinations I've heard between the Stax ear speakers (I'm using ear speakers to make it sound cooler) and the official Stax amps are something that would make me happy either way I believe.


----------



## potkettleblack

The closest example I can give to the dilemma I'm faced with, is portrayed in this movie scene.


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6RfnO6ULMQ/VIDEO]

And I actually think my decision is a lot harder.


----------



## paradoxper

The only decision is to sell the Abyss and pick up an 009 and Carbon.


----------



## lojay

paradoxper said:


> The only decision is to sell the Abyss and pick up an 009 and Carbon.



 


How are you finding the T2?


----------



## potkettleblack

paradoxper said:


> The only decision is to sell the Abyss and pick up an 009 and Carbon.


 

 Let me know when the 009's sound like a drum and bass headphone devised by Hades himself, like the Abyss does, and I'd be closer to owning a single system. Until then I require more than one setup to be satisfied '100%'. If i had one choice it would be the one I own now. But I have more choices, and I have a lot of respect and love for the Stax sound.


----------



## paradoxper

lojay said:


> paradoxper said:
> 
> 
> > The only decision is to sell the Abyss and pick up an 009 and Carbon.
> ...


 
 I am not finding the T2 as of yet.


----------



## bmichels

paradoxper said:


> The only decision is to sell the Abyss and pick up an 009 and Carbon.




A Carbon or a BHSE ?


----------



## paradoxper

bmichels said:


> A Carbon or a BHSE ?


 
 Both.


----------



## lojay

paradoxper said:


> I am not finding the T2 as of yet.


 I hope you find the T2 soon


----------



## paradoxper

lojay said:


> I hope you find the T2 soon


 
 You, Purk and the rest of you snobs just keep enjoying your T2's in the meantime.


----------



## Quixote79

dannybgoode said:


> Good morning all
> 
> Apologies if this has been covered before but I am seriously considering a top end stax setup-the 007's or 009's and am a little confused about what is needed in the chain.
> 
> ...


 

 I have recently upgraded from a sr-404 and a srm-006t to a kgsshv + sr-007mkii. also had the oppertunity to have a pair of sr-007mki on loan since.
 A major leap up in sound quality.
 Having both versions of the 007 at hand I have to say that the mkii has some sort of a bass hump that the mki doesn't. The mki also sounds more forward in comparison to the mkii.
 Its like the mki has a greater clarity in the bass.
 I am very greatful to astrostar59 who recomended the kgsshv - it is really a much, much better amplifier than the srm-006t. thanks astrostar59.


----------



## Quixote79

paradoxper said:


> Both.


 

 why two amps??


----------



## paradoxper

quixote79 said:


> why two amps??


 
 42


----------



## HemiSam

Because more is more....LOL.  If you buy everything that's recommended on this thread, let alone on head-fi, you'll soon be selling yourself on the street...
  
  




  
 HS


----------



## Quixote79

paradoxper said:


> 42


 

 so you watch a movie but whats that got to do with anything?


----------



## bearFNF

42 is the answer to the ultimate question of life the universe and everything.


----------



## Bill13

I received my Stax SR-L700 yesterday. 
 Initial impression:  Compared to my Stax 507 my L500 sounds smoother and more refined & not so harsh with bad recordings. 
 The quality of the recording is very important for these voiced-on-the-bright-side Stax headphones. 
 Both the 507 and the L500 often sound bright (though the Stax 323S amplifier) compared to my MrSpeakers Ether. If a low quality recording has overly bright trebles (like some YouTube classical music videos with their steely violins or screechy sopranos), then IMO, both  the 507 and L700 can occasionally become unpleasant (unforgiving).
 IMO, for good recordings, the L500 so far sounds more natural & 'real' than my Sennheiser 800 or MrSpeakers Ether.
 Since the Stax 323S amp has much more gain than I need, I am considering adding a passive EQ network located at the input to the amp to slightly boost the L500's lowest bass and somewhat rolloff/reduce/tame the trebles - can also add a broad (low Q) notch filter for taming a specific band of treble frequencies per the Linkwitz website (mainly covers his Open Baffle speakers, but website has a page about simple passive EQ circuits (including treble notch filters) for headphones).
 I wonder if the Stax 009 is also voiced to be relatively 'hot' in the trebles...
 Bill


----------



## zolkis

It is not clear when you are speaking about the L500 and when about the L700. You say you have received the L700, then compared the L500 to the 507, then you threw in the L700 and then spoke again about the L500.
  
 The 009 is smoother and rather different in the treble than the 507, L500 and L700: even if it has peaks it's higher up in the frequency range.


----------



## Bill13

Zolkis,
  
 Thanks for pointing out mistake in my post - embarrassing. 
  
 Where I apparently typed "L500" I always meant 'L700'.  I don't know how  'L500' got substituted for 'L700'.  
 I have no experience with the L500. 
 I have  the L700 and SR-507 phones.
  
 From reading about the Stax 009 I got the impression that the relative amount  of treble response (but not treble quality) is comparable the L700 and 507
  
 Bill


----------



## echineko

Hi guys,

I'm in the process of putting together my first Stax setup, and have been wanting to get the T2 amp to use with the eventual earspeakers I'll have. I came across an offer for a used T2 that seems pretty decent, but one of the pictures in the listing seems to show some slight dust buildup inside the amp (shown below).



From my brief read-through of this thread, it seems Stax amps can be sensitive to dust, and potentially even malfunction due to dust build-up (do correct me if I'm mistaken, as I say, I'm new to this). Am I just better of getting a new one instead of taking a chance on this?

Thanks!


----------



## arnaud

Total noob on EE but is this even a proper T2 circuit? The tubes are tubes are pin compatible with the 6dj8 but somewhat different characteristics. Does that mean the circuit was slightly modified for them (or can handle them by default)?

Arnaud


----------



## Pokemonn

looks like Stax SRM-007tA


----------



## echineko

pokemonn said:


> looks like Stax SRM-007tA


 
 Yes, my mistake. I realized I meant the Japanese variant, but got the name wrong >.< See, this is why I could use some advice.


----------



## zolkis

There is always "some" dust in amps. If the seller states it is fully functional, then the probability it's true is no less than with any other amp on sale. If you wanted a T2, this isn't one, and has nothing to do with it, but depending on price, it still may be a good buy. Clean it up before using, it should be good.


----------



## echineko

zolkis said:


> There is always "some" dust in amps. If the seller states it is fully functional, then the probability it's true is no less than with any other amp on sale. If you wanted a T2, this isn't one, and has nothing to do with it, but depending on price, it still may be a good buy. Clean it up before using, it should be good.


 
 Ok, thanks for that, I think I'm good with the overall condition. So one question, is there any difference with the TA and T2, other than the obvious Japanese voltage setting? In terms of SQ, circuitry, etc? I'm a lot more likely to be in Japan soon, rather than Singapore (nearest place to me with suitable voltage), so was planning to get a unit while there (or even earlier if possible). Am I actually missing out on something by doing so?


----------



## astrostar59

echineko said:


> Yes, my mistake. I realized I meant the Japanese variant, but got the name wrong >.< See, this is why I could use some advice.


 

 Ask the seller to take some close ups of the caps and the transformer. Make sure there is no sign of leaks and bulging caps, or the tops of the caps are bulged.
  
 Can I ask what is the price? You can buy other amps for your system that will sound better than this unit.


----------



## echineko

astrostar59 said:


> Ask the seller to take some close ups of the caps and the transformer. Make sure there is no sign of leaks and bulging caps, or the tops of the caps are bulged.
> 
> Can I ask what is the price? You can buy other amps for your system that will sound better than this unit.


 
 Sure, I'll get back to you via PM


----------



## zolkis

echineko said:


> Ok, thanks for that, I think I'm good with the overall condition. So one question, is there any difference with the TA and T2, other than the obvious Japanese voltage setting? In terms of SQ, circuitry, etc? I'm a lot more likely to be in Japan soon, rather than Singapore (nearest place to me with suitable voltage), so was planning to get a unit while there (or even earlier if possible). Am I actually missing out on something by doing so?


 
  
 Oh, you probably mean the Stax 007tA and the 007t Mk 2. The tA is fine. Of course, there are better amps, but maybe you crack a good deal on it.
 The Stax T2 is a totally different amp, around 6K$ if you can get one. When you mention T2 on this forum, people start drooling .
http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/staxt2-2.jpg


----------



## echineko

zolkis said:


> Oh, you probably mean the Stax 007tA and the 007t Mk 2. The tA is fine. Of course, there are better amps, but maybe you crack a good deal on it.
> The Stax T2 is a totally different amp. When you mention T2 on this forum, people start drooling .


 
 That would also explain the huge difference in price, from looking around  Well, the amp will take a backseat for the moment, I'm going to be spending most of the cash towards the 009, probably will wait till next year at the soonest before thinking of an upgrade.
  
 Edit: I did get a chance to listen to the T2 at the Stax setup during Canjam Singapore, would the TA/T Mk.2 be that a huge downgrade? I loved that sound, might be worth waiting a while longer instead of regretting a hasty purchase.


----------



## zolkis

echineko said:


> That would also explain the huge difference in price, from looking around  Well, the amp will take a backseat for the moment, I'm going to be spending most of the cash towards the 009, probably will wait till next year at the soonest before thinking of an upgrade.


 
  
 With the 009, I'd say you will be fine with the 007tA for a while, but you will want to upgrade the amp sooner or later... if you want to buy a better one now, this forum is half about them amps. You could also get the 007tA power supply improved (even by local technician).


----------



## echineko

zolkis said:


> With the 009, I'd say you will be fine with the 007tA for a while, but you will want to upgrade the amp sooner or later... if you want to buy a better one now, this forum is half about them amps. You could also get the 007tA power supply improved (even by local technician).


 
 Yes, probably will go that route. And I'm not very comfortable with letting local technicians mess with it, even the local dealer isn't very knowledgeable about Stax. I'd either get it sorted while in Japan, or take it down with me to Singapore when I'm next in town with work.


----------



## JimL11

That doesn't look like a SRM-007 - too many tubes.


----------



## organ_donor

jiml11 said:


> That doesn't look like a SRM-007 - too many tubes.


 
  
 SRM-007ii did come with 4 tubes....


----------



## organ_donor

echineko said:


> That would also explain the huge difference in price, from looking around  Well, the amp will take a backseat for the moment, I'm going to be spending most of the cash towards the 009, probably will wait till next year at the soonest before thinking of an upgrade.
> 
> Edit: I did get a chance to listen to the T2 at the Stax setup during Canjam Singapore, would the TA/T Mk.2 be that a huge downgrade? I loved that sound, might be worth waiting a while longer instead of regretting a hasty purchase.


 
  
 I was there too..but I didnt spot a T2 in Canjam SG. If you were referring the amp with blue faceplate, that should be a BHSE.


----------



## echineko

organ_donor said:


> I was there too..but I didnt spot a T2 in Canjam SG. If you were referring the amp with blue faceplate, that should be a BHSE.



That would be downstairs in the main hall, right? I meant in the Stax room (not with various brands) upstairs.


----------



## organ_donor

echineko said:


> That would be downstairs in the main hall, I meant in the Stax room (not with various brands) upstairs.


 
  
 Yea I am talking about the amp in the Stax room too. The 009 is driven by BSHE/Hugo TT combo when I was auditioning. Perhaps they moved the equipment during the show. If the T2 was happened at there then I really missed the rare opportunity to try that super top combo...


----------



## echineko

organ_donor said:


> Yea I am talking about the amp in the Stax room too. The 009 is driven by BSHE/Hugo TT combo when I was auditioning. Perhaps they moved the equipment during the show. If the T2 was happened at there then I really missed the rare opportunity to try that super top combo...



Yup, you missed out  I emailed Desmond afterwards to ask him what model of Stax amp it was (and what it goes for in Singapore). But that's weird,I only saw Stax equipment in the room, didn't realise they had the BHSE there as well.

Edit: I had a doubt after posting this, went back again to the email to check, and sure enough, Desmond actually said 007TII :mad: I've been confusing myself from the start, sorry for that


----------



## organ_donor

echineko said:


> Yup, you missed out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hehe too bad.
  
 Regarding the srm 007ii, if the price is good enough you may consider getting one and mod it to a mini KGST. I actually have the unmodded 007ii with me now too but I do not have the headphone yet. Thinking to get a pair of 009 and mod the amp to KGST later. I already have the 6A4S tubes standing by for the mod....


----------



## soren_brix

jiml11 said:


> That doesn't look like a SRM-007 - too many tubes.


 
 you might want to have a look here from rgs9200m's Stax 007t/ii, might be that you think of 006t though when mentioning too many tubes:


----------



## echineko

organ_donor said:


> Hehe too bad.
> 
> Regarding the srm 007ii, if the price is good enough you may consider getting one and mod it to a mini KGST. I actually have the unmodded 007ii with me now too but I do not have the headphone yet. Thinking to get a pair of 009 and mod the amp to KGST later. I already have the 6A4S tubes standing by for the mod....


 
 If you can recommend someone in Singapore you'd trust, PM me. I know for sure I won't be doing that here.


----------



## organ_donor

echineko said:


> If you can recommend someone in Singapore you'd trust, PM me. I know for sure I won't be doing that here.


 
  
 Not that I know of. I wish i can get someone to mod it properly with a fees in MY/SG as well.
 Germany is the closest I am aware of.
  
 Therefore I decided to do the modification by myself. I already studied all the available info from here and Head Case to get the concept of the mod. It is doable, required moderate eye power and has to be extra careful.


----------



## echineko

organ_donor said:


> Not that I know of. I wish i can get someone to mod it properly with a fees in MY/SG as well.
> Germany is the closest I am aware of.
> 
> Therefore I decided to do the modification by myself. I already studied all the available info from here and Head Case to get the concept of the mod. It is doable, required moderate eye power and has to be extra careful.



I'm not a DIY guy, don't think I'd be confident enough to do that on my own. I've heard from a few people here that it's relatively simple to mod the Stax amps, but it's not for me. Good luck with your mod though, let me know how it goes


----------



## Michgelsen

Come on folks, please be a little more precise when naming and identifying Stax amps (and gear). If you're not sure, then say nothing. Else it gets really confusing for everyone, and especially for any n00bs who are trying to learn about Stax.
  
 These exist:
  
 With two 6CG7/6FQ7 tubes:
 SRM-006t (small t, not T)
 SRM-006tII (not a Mk.2, not a T2, but 006tII)
 SRM-006tS (latest model)
 = Mostly the same as the older SRM-T1 (without balanced input), SRM-T1S (with balanced input), and SRM-T1W (with variable bias and pre-amp capabilities).
  
 With four 6CG7/6FQ7 tubes and thus slightly more power:
 SRM-007t (small t, not T)
 SRM-007tII (not a Mk.2, not a T2, but 007tII. Especially not a Mk.2 on this one because it's confusing when we also have the black SR-007 Mk.2 earspeakers.)
 SRM-007tS (latest model)
  
 SRM-T2, totally different beast with 4×6DJ8 and 4×EL34.
  
 SRM-600 Limited, with two ECC99 tubes, slightly more power than SRM-006t[II/S].


----------



## paulchiu

michgelsen said:


> Come on folks, please be a little more precise when naming and identifying Stax amps (and gear). If you're not sure, then say nothing. Else it gets really confusing for everyone, and especially for any n00bs who are trying to learn about Stax.
> 
> These exist:
> 
> ...


 
  
 In the US, the SRM-007tS  is STAX SRM-007tII.


----------



## Michgelsen

Ok, I stand corrected then. I see there's not yet a different SRM-007tS from tII. But there's definitely a SRM-006tII and a SRM-006tS.


----------



## soren_brix

echineko said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm in the process of putting together my first Stax setup, and have been wanting to get the T2 amp to use with the eventual earspeakers I'll have. I came across an offer for a used T2 that seems pretty decent, but one of the pictures in the listing seems to show some slight dust buildup inside the amp (shown below).
> 
> ...


 
  
  


michgelsen said:


> Come on folks, please be a little more precise when naming and identifying Stax amps (and gear). If you're not sure, then say nothing. Else it gets really confusing for everyone, and especially for any n00bs who are trying to learn about Stax.
> 
> These exist:
> 
> ...


 
 Which amp do you recognize from the OP's pics then?


----------



## echineko

soren_brix said:


> Which amp do you recognize from the OP's pics then?



It's the SRM-007tII, I made a mistake in the earlier post and (hopefully?) cleared it up after.


----------



## b0bb

echineko said:


> It's the SRM-007tII, I made a mistake in the earlier post and (hopefully?) cleared it up after.


 
  
 The easiest way to tell a T2 from other STAX amps is the T2 is 2 boxes.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/555#post_9896024
  
 The link contains internal shots, the output tubes on the T2 are EL34 which are twice as tall and twice the diameter of the 6CG7s in the 007 that was in your original photo.
  
 There are also 4x6DJ8 driver tubes on the T2, the 6CG7 on the 007 is the about the same size as the 6DJ8, seen in the right side of the picture.
  
 Some more pictures of  bunch of STAX amps all in one shelf taken at the STAX factory perhaps the one you are looking at is in there somewhere.
 http://cdn.head-fi.org/9/95/95e4e497_2012-12-12_Stax_Interview_and_Tour_DSC_7648.jpeg


----------



## bmichels

why the hell STAX isn't producing again the T2 ??


----------



## padam

Maybe they don't want to make the same mistake twice?? (They went bankrupt) One thing is producing, supporting it is another.
  
 I think it is because times are changing and it is simply not really financially feasible anymore.
 Then again, you may never know what they may come up with next time, they do have new funding now.
  
 I am somewhat more puzzled about why they keep the 727 in their product line as is, instead of fixing it (since then, they've updated the 3xx line two times)


----------



## Quixote79

bmichels said:


> why the hell STAX isn't producing again the T2 ??


 

 great news! have anyone seen pictures? is it the original design?


----------



## mulveling

They're *not* making a T2 again. They won't. Also the Stax-made T2 was apparently a flawed design anyways -- and the flaw is addressed in the DIY T2 designed by Dr. Kevin Gilmore. Which is why a DIY T2, not the Stax T2, has been considered the reference amp for Stax users.


----------



## NoPants

its quite the reference, it's hard to stop listening sometimes


----------



## lilbthebasedgod

Can a SRD-7 use a Speaker wire to RCA adapter to run it off of a headphone amp?  Or does it need a speaker amp?


----------



## Michgelsen

RCA adapter, highly unlikely, but if you have a really powerful headphone amp, such as a Beta22, it could maybe work with a jack-to-speaker-wire adapter. Edit: or better yet, a 4-pin xlr-to-speaker-wire adapter. I'm not sure whether an SRD-7 likes the shared ground on a jackplug.
  
 Edit 2: If it ever was unclear, the transformer boxes such as the SRD-7 are really meant to be used with speaker amps, if that's what you're really asking. Can it be done with a really powerful headphone amp? It might, if you own one of the type that can also power small efficient speakers. But then you almost have a speaker amp again...


----------



## astrostar59

bmichels said:


> why the hell STAX isn't producing again the T2 ??


 

 Because it was a disastrous design as regards heat and reliability. It is presumed they tried to keep the tubes inside the case for looks or certification in Japan?
  
 But that amount of heat in such a cramped and minimal heat sinked design was always going to be a time bomb. 
  
 Having said that is is supposed to sound fabulous hence the interest from the DIY community to build a modified version via KG.


----------



## zolkis

The SRD-7 [Pro] will make sound from any headphone output, but distortion may be high to very high. For curiosity I have measured it, it's like 60% THD from a typical headphone output of a small headphone amp like a portable DAC, but a powerful headamp was working fine, as good as a speaker amp (with volume limits). However, it was designed for speaker amps. If you don't have one, why bother with the SRD-7 on either short or long term: use a real Stax amp.


----------



## JimL11

Yes, organ_donor and soren b, the later photos do show the SRM-007.  I am sorry that I wasn't clear in my hurried post.  The photo I was referring to was echnieko's photo which showed a design with at least 7 tubes, unless I miscounted.  I don't think THAT is a SRM-007 - too many tubes.


----------



## potkettleblack

Can anybody give impressions on the L700 played through a KGST?


----------



## Jones Bob

I prefer my SR-L700 to SR-007 Mk2 on my KGST. I listen most of the time to my SR-009.


----------



## Tinkerer

jones bob said:


> I prefer my SR-L700 to SR-007 Mk2 on my KGST. I listen most of the time to my SR-009.


 
  
 That would make sense since the KGST is supposed to knock down the treble a bit. Good for the brighter stuff, not so much for the neutral to warm.


----------



## mulveling

tinkerer said:


> That would make sense since the KGST is supposed to knock down the treble a bit. Good for the brighter stuff, not so much for the neutral to warm.


 
 I agree with the general sentiment and conclusions here, but to me the L700 and 009 are neutral-ish while the 007 (at least Mk I) is dark -- in some ways even darker than the HD650, which for ages was widely agreed to be a dark headphone in need of some "brightening" via component matching. Sorry to be such a broken record here, but the other guys are wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I think myself, and the other few I've seen with both the L700 & KGST, agree that it's an excellent combination. I recently saw a post by someone expressing that regardless of overall level (for which the 009 will be probably more elevated vs. L700 at certain points), the 009's treble is smoother/cleaner than that of L700. I find this to be very true with my Carbon / Yggy / Audiophilleo setup, though the slight L700 roughness will probably only be apparent if you have a 007 or 009 _*and*_ a great amp/source for reference. The KGST completely smooths out this minor roughness at the expense of a little detail, and still retains a nice amount of sparkle and energy up top -- it's not dark. The KGST's weaknesses (only vs. more expensive amps) -- bass impact/extension and soundstage size -- are generally not additive with the L700 (i.e. you get decent bass and the same 'ol Lambda soundstage). The midrange of the L700+KGST is lovely; warm and liquid, even bordering on lush, but with great clarity (I love Stax for its ability to pull this off). In short, these components are splendidly well matched in both performance & price, and have strengths & weaknesses that are both complementary.
  
 That said the Carbon is overall better vs. KGST with the L700, and _*much*_ better with the 009,  but that should be a given at its higher cost tier.
  
 And though the 007 does indeed benefit from amps on brighter side, that's not to say it doesn't sound pretty great with the KGST or Carbon -- it does (especially the latter). It's just that yeah, a brighter amp is going to result in a sound closer to neutral there (BHSE and one particular KGSShv mini, in my experience).


----------



## potkettleblack

Excellent info and impressions thank you.


----------



## kugino

potkettleblack said:


> Can anybody give impressions on the L700 played through a KGST?


Geoff, aka headinclouds, builds some of the best stax amps out there. he just emailed me over the weekend and said that he loves the l700/KGST combo.


----------



## potkettleblack

kugino said:


> Geoff, aka headinclouds, builds some of the best stax amps out there. he just emailed me over the weekend and said that he loves the l700/KGST combo.


Messaged him last night to ask about pricing and life expectancy of the KGST. Thanks.


----------



## deuter

kugino said:


> Geoff, aka headinclouds, builds some of the best stax amps out there. he just emailed me over the weekend and said that he loves the l700/KGST combo.




Have you got contact email for him ?


----------



## deuter

I was on Price Japan website, there are so many headphone amp how does one decide which one to buy ?


----------



## bearFNF

Auditioning is the best. Reading recommendations is next best. Then there's trial and error...


----------



## dannybgoode

Thanks all for your thoughts and feedback. Some serious thinking to do (and hopefully some listening too)...


----------



## kugino

deuter said:


> Have you got contact email for him ?


send him a pm.


----------



## kugino

potkettleblack said:


> Messaged him last night to ask about pricing and life expectancy of the KGST. Thanks.


I don't know if he's making anymore KGST. mine might have been his last one.  he said he's building carbons now...


----------



## joseph69

Birgir has the KGST (HERE)


----------



## HemiSam

kugino said:


> I don't know if he's making anymore KGST. mine might have been his last one.  he said he's building carbons now...


 
  
 I do not believe he is selling carbons so you might want to check whether he wants this posted.
  
 HS


----------



## mulveling

kugino said:


> I don't know if he's making anymore KGST. mine might have been his last one.  he said he's building carbons now...


 
 If no more KGST, then potkettleback should get a Carbon. Probably going to be a stellar deal -- hurt once, then hear awesome sounds forever! 
  
 Also, yeah you can't assume the DIY[FSE] builders want your commission. If you land a good deal from a skilled builder, then they're doing you a favor out of their love for the hobby. You can get the goods from Birgir too, but it might be a good bit more expensive, and typically less customizable. Also I'm not a fan of the minification craze there. I have ample desktop space, so I'd prefer not to pay nearly the same money for a weaker PSU and reduced heat dissipation.


----------



## paradoxper

hemisam said:


> I do not believe he is selling carbons so you might want to check whether he wants this posted.
> 
> HS


 
 He's not. He's just doing a small run. All spoken for.


----------



## sensui123

Been listening a couple days now with the sr009 and kgsshv carbon from Birgir. Impressions are details, extension, speed, transparency blows all my orthos/planar headphones out the water. The soundstage isn't huge but at the same time natural and intimate... I think the he1000 executes the stage just right. Bass is never superfluous and very tight. There are some rough edges in the treble for certain instruments but this eased in after a couple hours. All in all, I can't wait for the bhse to come in so I can compare. All of a sudden not excited for lcd4 arrival. This is truly endgame IMO.


----------



## HemiSam

paradoxper said:


> He's not. He's just doing a small run. All spoken for.


 
  
 That's what I heard as well.  I'm sure they'll be great but I'm not getting one...LOL.
  
 HS


----------



## kugino

hemisam said:


> I do not believe he is selling carbons so you might want to check whether he wants this posted.
> 
> HS


 
 i figured he was selling them since he is building multiple boxes...but yeah, i probably shouldn't post things unless checking with him first. good to know that they're all spoken for...i think he's a tremendous builder and from all my dealings with him, a really good guy, too.


----------



## comzee

sensui123 said:


> The soundstage isn't huge but at the same time natural and intimate...


 
 The smaller soundstage might be the source you're using. I use the 009/Carbon with a Yggdrasil. I get what I would consider massive soundstage. 
 I've used my Master 7 with the 009/Carbon for quite a bit too. Although it is also an amazing dac, the soundstage is quite smaller.
  
 The the shining trait, imo, of the Ygg is soundstage, and the Carbon doesn't hold it back in any way.


----------



## Dr. T

sensui123 said:


> Been listening a couple days now with the sr009 and kgsshv carbon from Birgir. Impressions are details, extension, speed, transparency blows all my orthos/planar headphones out the water. The soundstage isn't huge but at the same time natural and intimate...


 
 Agreed whole heartedly. I was able to get a Carbon second hand. After a few sessions with the 009's I promptly sold my HE-6's and LCD-2's. They might as well go to someone who will use them. I'm done with orthos.


----------



## sensui123

Source is Metrum Pavane.... My endgame dac basically. To be fair I'm comparing with speakers and other big stage headphones like hd800 and he1000. To me, I think the he1000 positions sound the best I've heard so far out of headphones. But the sr009 is just killer across the board.


----------



## bmichels

sensui123 said:


> ... All in all, I can't wait for the bhse to come in so I can compare.


 
  
 when do you expect the BHSE to come in ?   2017 ? 2018 ? .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





     ( I have one ordered, but... I have not even heard from Justin about my colour choice, so....)
  
 BTW: did you ordered your BHSE with the upgraded ALPS RK50 volume pot ?    ( I forgot to ask for this upgrade, is it worthy ? does it improve SQ ? are there other upgrade to ask for ? )


----------



## sensui123

The bhse should come soon. Balance paid and Justin told me it's been testing since February. Yes it's with the RK50 pot upgrade. Don't want to get my hopes to since testing takes awhile too heh.


----------



## potkettleblack

I didn't realise things like this were so exclusive and weren't ongoing. I assume that there aren't many people making these worldwide? I think I'll be getting the HD800S tomorrow, but I lust after the L700 and had planned it for the start of the next year.


----------



## soren_brix

bmichels said:


> when do you expect the BHSE to come in ?   2017 ? 2018 ? ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You've ordered a BHSE, and forgot to decide whether to get the RK50 or not? and don't have a clue in rgrds to RK50 and SQ? ... however, you do know your color of choice ...


----------



## potkettleblack

soren_brix said:


> You've ordered a BHSE, and forgot to decide whether to get the RK50 or not? and don't have a clue in rgrds to RK50 and SQ? ... however, you do know your color of choice ...


If only he could be as prepared and as knowledgable as you, soren.


----------



## zolkis

Are there informative reviews between the RK50 and other good pots/attenuators? Among the ones I've found only one guy claimed it sounded less colored through the Stax 009 than other solutions.
 At least Accuphase is not using it any more, not sure if because of cost or because their AAVA attenuator sounds better.
  
 I've got the RK50, but only to my Stax amp, as it was there I wanted to maximize transparency and I haven't tried other pots there. In a speaker amp, apart from nice tracking and smooth operation, there are well built carbon film pots out there that sound as good or very near (as far as I can tell) -- though I am not really fit to judge as I was never able to make that much difference between "good enough" pots.
  
 The ~600 euros price of the RK50 made even my perfectionist audiophool mind think about returns of investment. It seems better to invest in caps, especially tweeter series caps, arguably the single most important component apart from drivers. However, once or twice in a lifetime it's probably OK, and once gotten, I will not take part of it.
  
 So the point is: if you've got it, don't look back, and if you don't have it but have e.g. a BHSE, be happy with it.


----------



## comzee

zolkis said:


> The ~600 euros price of the RK50 made even my perfectionist audiophool mind think about returns of investment.


 
 That's quite expensive for just a pot. This is the one Birgir uses in his Carbon. I searched the crap out of Google, and I can't find what this thing is apart from it being Alpha. Apparently it's a 21mm quad pot, best I could find.


Spoiler: Image






  
 I like stepped attenuators, they appear to be more transparent to me. I'm using a Goldpt V24 Quad as a passive preamp, works a treat.
  
 edit:
 TIL I guess the Goldpt is a series Attenuator, not stepped.


----------



## Pale Rider

I used to prefer quality stepped attenuators as well, until I got one of these in my speaker system:
  
Tortuga Audio Passive Preamp 
  
 The LDRs are beyond transparent, whatever that might be. Sounds like hype, I know, but in this case, completely warranted. The LDR has made me think of asking Birgir if he would build a straight Carbon, with no volume control. In my speaker system, it's as if the sound was "released."


----------



## comzee

pale rider said:


> The LDRs are beyond transparent, whatever that might be.


 
 I think a general concept is that resistor series are better then potentiometers.
 GoldPt quotes about their V24 "You can string dozens of them together and that will still sound like a single individual resistor!"
  
 It would be interesting to get an oscilloscope and pass thru 1khz sine wave through both LDRs and Thin Films.
 Not even sure if oscilloscopes exist that are sensitive enough to test the difference between the two.


----------



## Pale Rider

comzee said:


> I think a general concept is that resistor series are better then potentiometers.
> GoldPt quotes about their V24 "You can string dozens of them together and that will still sound like a single individual resistor!"
> 
> It would be interesting to get an oscilloscope and pass thru 1khz sine wave through both LDRs and Thin Films.
> Not even sure if oscilloscopes exist that are sensitive enough to test the difference between the two.


 

 With enough beer, I bet we could hear anything.


----------



## Bjmjpl

Hello all,
  
 Just received my beautiful purple amp from Justin - i have (i thought) everything i needed - including the cardas cables balanced for pono recommended by the great folks here...but i did not receive a power supply cable - i have the umbilical and i have researched to see if i was supposed to receive the cable - but i have nothing to plus the power supply into the wall...am i supposed to - can i just use a regular desktop computer cable that fits fine?
  
 In researching this i also saw this link to this video that i had no idea i was supposed to be doing....
  
  video 
  
 so this makes me nervous to use this computer cable - can somebody let me know so i can listen?!?!??!?!?!  lol - soooo ready - its been like 2 years!
  
 and ps - is there anything else i need/should be doing to maximize this equipment?
  
 thank you all for your continued learning and support!


----------



## sensui123

The GS-X nor the BHSE comes with a power cable.....supposed to supply your own.  Congrats on the amp!


----------



## Pale Rider

Any IEC-compliant cable for your power grid will work, and it won't "hurt" anything. But a better cable will get you better power, and that's one of the things that is often easiest to hear.


----------



## paulchiu

bjmjpl said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Just received my beautiful purple amp from Justin - i have (i thought) everything i needed - including the cardas cables balanced for pono recommended by the great folks here...but i did not receive a power supply cable - i have the umbilical and i have researched to see if i was supposed to receive the cable - but i have nothing to plus the power supply into the wall...am i supposed to - can i just use a regular desktop computer cable that fits fine?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Any standard IEC 15amp power cable will do.  The heavier the gauge of the cable and the quality of the wiring or design, perhaps you can get better prevention of interference and other anomalies. Some premium cables may even make your BHSE sound better.
 It's really a personal matter as many have debated the benefits of power cables over the decades.
 Why don't you listen for a bit with that computer cable and when you get a chance, order from Amazon a fancier cable.  With them, you can try and send back very easily.
  
 As for biasing the tubes, you probably need not do it now.
  
 Enjoy your new amp.


----------



## bearFNF

bjmjpl said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Just received my beautiful purple amp from Justin - i have (i thought) everything i needed - including the cardas cables balanced for pono recommended by the great folks here...but i did not receive a power supply cable - i have the umbilical and i have researched to see if i was supposed to receive the cable - but i have nothing to plus the power supply into the wall...am i supposed to - can i just use a regular desktop computer cable that fits fine?
> 
> ...



First off, CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Second, like others have said standard power cable will work. Upgrade if you feel like it.

Third, I talked to Justin about the biasing and he said no need to do it as he tested the amp with the tubes he sent. If you change tubes you should check the bias and adjust if needed.

Happy listening!!!


----------



## maximal112

Hello all, very new here first time post but been reading around for a while.
  
 I recently bought a new SRM-353x and the SR-L500s. Went to audition a pair of the Oppo pm-1s and the HD800s and ended up walking away with the Stax instead along with a Chord Mojo to pair with it from my pc.
  
 Got it home and everything set up. PC running via USB to the mojo then running to the 353x and all was running smoothly for the first hour or so. Left it running while I went to have some dinner etc and came back to hear it sounding significantly quieter than when I left. Thinking it was the song I turned it up only to notice something was wrong, everything sounded flat and harsh and there was no low end. Changed songs, changed the input problem still persisted that night so I left it for the night. Came back the next morning briefly before work to try it again. Worked fine for the first few minutes then started to notice the music fading in and out, wasn't as bad as the previous night as I didn't have long to listen but was definitely noticeable. First thought was something to do with the Mojo but I have my AV receiver/stereo set up right next to this and that was running just fine. 
  
 I called the shop I bought it from explaining the issue to them and they seem as confused as I was, so I packed everything up and took it back to them to have a listen to. Having had the issue happen to me a number of times before I took it back to them I was certain it would happen again once there, but lo and behold just to prove me wrong set everything up at the shop and all runs smoothly. Left it running while looking at other speakers while there, no problems. Ran through their CD player, no issues. Connected my mojo through both the CD player and the laptop they had there, still nothing. Narrowed it down to must be something causing the issue at my house, gave me a number of suggestions to try and change and go from there. 
  
 First suggestion was to try running power cable directly to wall outlet rather than through a power board as there may have been something restricting in there which I found odd given my tv, stereo etc all runs through it with no issues. So I tried it and after an hour or so of listening with no issues that it had worked, or so I thought. Hadn't listened to it for a few days and came back on Monday to listen again only to find the issue had resurfaced where I could hear the music fading in and out like it wasn't receiving enough power/signal. Tried everything I could think of, different usb cable, different wall outlet, different interconnect cable between Mojo and Stax amp. Even tried running from Mojo to receiver and using the headphone output on there to run to the Stax, still same issue. Then tried running some music via av receiver and ps4 removing the mojo from the equation and didn't notice the problem any more. Moved everything back to where I originally had it plugged mojo back into pc and problem started almost straight away again. I should add that through out this whole time I had been running the mojo in line level mode as recommended by the Hifi shop. Thought what the hell seeing as I was out of ideas and turned the volume up a few clicks on the Mojo, and noticed the problem disappeared. Turned it back down and the problem returned, just the music fading in and out. Tried again last night, turned everything on, turn Mojo up a little bit after, only takes 3 clicks above where its been set and had no issues the whole night. 
  
 Now I'm glad that everything seems to be working properly at the moment but would like to figure out what the main problem may actually be and whether this is just more of a band aid fix and may have issues pop up again when I least expect it. I am very new to the world of electrostats so still have plenty to learn and understand about them. I tried running both Foobar and jriver with ASIO, WASAPI and kernal streaming and all presented with the same problem. 
  
 Sorry for the wall of text, any help is appreciated
  
 Thank you


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## astrostar59

I m glad you sorted it. The Stax amp must need a certain level to work correctly? What is the line level on the Mojo? You need 2.5v really, or 6v balanced. Are you using balanced or RCA?
  
 Yes, the Stax world is an aural drug for sure, so much so I look forward to getting home to listen to music! I now it is sad, but who cares if we enjoy it. I think it is a close to a concert in your house as you can get without spending 200K on speakers and having a HASBO in the process (needs to be loud).
  
 I am close to the end game set-up now, 20 years later from my LSN and my little SRD-7. Unless of course Stax bring out an SR-011. Though I am not sure how they can improve on the 009, maybe a bit warmer, but pretty perfect in my book. IMO Stax HPs needs a great front end with a bit of warmth or some tubes to get to the higher levels of what it can do....


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## astrostar59

I just realised, your Chord Mojo is a headphone amplifier only, no line out. The Mojo should not be used as a pre-amplifier to feed your Stax.
  
 It has the wrong output level and there impedance is way too low. You will get bandwidth limiting and the sound will be coloured / constricted.
  
 I would STRONGLY recommend you source a true USB DAC with line out 2.5v. I use a Metrum Octave MK2 with my 007s which is fantastic, I would recommend that for sure.
  
 Then you will be amazed by the sound level, it will be a lot better trust me.


----------



## maximal112

In regards to the first post, this is what I was thinking it required a certain level. According to the manual the line level out is supposed to be 3v I believe. Yea I'm looking to expand slowly, think headphones was a good choice for the time being and hopefully in the future upgrading the stereo as well, nothing better than just being able to sit on the lounge and enjoy some music. Funnily enough, got to listen to the B&W 802 D3s when I was listening to speakers, quite amazing however something I'll probably never had as its hard to justify spending so much on a sound system. For now anyway, maybe if I win the lotto...
  
 Anyway, back on topic. Yes it is a headphone amplifier been using a headphone output to RCA as sold by the guys at the shop. Never thought it would be an issue, but as problems kept happening thought I would ask those with more knowledge than myself. 
 Makes sense about the output level, bit of a bummer though. Had this horrible thought that the one you suggested was going to be a $7000-$8000 piece of equipment, glad to see its not haha. Will look into it. This is the local reseller, anything on there you might recommend? prefer to buy local when possible. http://www.mirandahifi.com/collections/digital-audio-players/DACs the PRIMARE DAC 30 is around the same price range as the one you suggested, $1700 AUD although found the Metrum online for $1200 at the moment.
  
 I'll have to try and see if I can return the mojo, not really much point keeping it if it's not going to work for this as I'm unlikely to carry it around anywhere with me. Thank you for the help, much appreciated


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## Bjmjpl

THANK YOU TO ALL - GOING UNDER NOW FOR FIRST TIME!!!


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## maximal112

Well this is mildly frustrating, had a whole post typed up but wouldn't let me post because of a link. Instead of letting me remove the link deleted my whole past, lets try again.
  
 The mojo is supposed to have a line level out of 3V when put in that particular mode, but still has to run from headphone out to RCA.
 I think anything audio is rather addicting. The day I took these back to the shop to figure out the problem got to listen to the B&W 802 D3s they had set up. Were very nice, maybe one day if I win the lotto I can get some.
  
 Back on topic, Yes it is a headphone amplifier guess we just all thought it would still be appropriate, but if it's not definitely going to have to get something else. Had this horrible thought the one you recommended was going to be 7-$8000 or something but luckily much more reasonable. I'll shall have a look into it,also found PRIMARE DAC 30 on the website of the local dealer know much about it, always prefer to buy local if possible and seeing as I'll be trying to return the mojo anyway. Is there anything in particular I should be looking for with a DAC to help run these as best possible?
  
 Thank you again for all the help


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## Pokemonn

astrostar59 said:


> I just realised, your Chord Mojo is a headphone amplifier only, no line out. The Mojo should not be used as a pre-amplifier to feed your Stax.


 
 Mojo has line out put mode (3V).


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## GRod

​Neither does the Aristaeus...come with an AC power cable.


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## bearFNF

From the MOJO manual.

Line Level Mode 
Mojo has been optimised for portable use, but can also be used as a system DAC. *Please note that the design of Mojo means that power is always taken from the battery so, in certain circumstances, you may deplete the battery faster than it can recharge.* Therefore it is recommended that you switch off Mojo when not in use so the battery can have a full charge cycle ready for the next listening session. Mojo should not be permanently switched on. 
To set the output level to *3V (line level) for connection to a preamplifier press both volume buttons together when switching on the unit.* *Both volume balls will illuminate light blue.* This mode is not remembered so when you switch Mojo off it will reset back to the previous volume stored for safety reasons.


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## maximal112

Hi Bear
  
 Yea I've made sure that there is always sufficient charge in the Mojo and was aware that you need to set the line level each time I turn it on. Unless I'm doing something wrong when setting the line level which I find hard to believe given it only has 3 buttons but stranger things have happened, I even turned the volume up once before turning it off to make sure the lights were changing to the right colours for Line output. Although I feel like their light blue is more of a purplish or I'm just colourblind (I did google other people doing it to make sure I was getting the same colours)
 Beginning to feel like taking it back to get something else might be better and just spend a bit more. Seeing as I didn't get the Mojo for portability anyway, it's only going to be connected at home so I won't lose anything in that regard.


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## music4mhell

pokemonn said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > I just realised, your Chord Mojo is a headphone amplifier only, no line out. The Mojo should not be used as a pre-amplifier to feed your Stax.
> ...


 
 I am using my Mojo as a Pre Amp to my Genelec monitors from last 2 months 
 No issues till now and still feeling heavenly every day of my life


----------



## maximal112

music4mhell said:


> I am using my Mojo as a Pre Amp to my Genelec monitors from last 2 months
> No issues till now and still feeling heavenly every day of my life


 
 Question for you, I've tried both ways and seen no difference. when turning the Mojo on for line level, do you hold the two volume buttons then press the power and press all 3 at the same time?


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## music4mhell

maximal112 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > I am using my Mojo as a Pre Amp to my Genelec monitors from last 2 months
> ...


 
 Exactly, when i use my Mojo as a Pre-Amp, i press all three button together to activate 3V line level mode.
 When i take my same Mojo to office next morning, i just use the power button to turn on, as we know Mojo doesn't remember Line out mode.
  
 I like this feature, else i had to decrease the volume to such level, so that i won'y blow up my Cans/Earbuds/my own ears and i had to do it every morning 
  
 Chord engineers are really smart guys


----------



## maximal112

music4mhell said:


> Exactly, when i use my Mojo as a Pre-Amp, i press all three button together to activate 3V line level mode.
> When i take my same Mojo to office next morning, i just use the power button to turn on, as we know Mojo doesn't remember Line out mode.
> 
> I like this feature, else i had to decrease the volume to such level, so that i won'y blow up my Cans/Earbuds/my own ears and i had to do it every morning
> ...




Yea that's what I've been doing so I think no issues with getting the right mode, but it seems that when setting it to the right mode the output isn't high enough to provide consistent sound and I get the music fading in and out. Few clicks up on volume seems to fix it but instead of enjoying the music like I should I just keep worrying that something is going to go wrong again. Just to check this is the colours you're getting for the volume buttons?


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## music4mhell

maximal112 said:


> music4mhell said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly, when i use my Mojo as a Pre-Amp, i press all three button together to activate 3V line level mode.
> ...


 
 Yes this is the color of Line out mode, I am happy with this mode, i never tried to Vol Up from Line level mode, i think most PreAmp has output close to 3V anyways.


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## maximal112

Well this is the one I assumed I was supposed to be using as that's what it's supposed to be for the line output but when I do I have issues. The Stax and the mojo don't seem to like each other at that volume level it seems. 
 I'm using one of these for the connection in case there was any doubt, although a better quality one


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## music4mhell

maximal112 said:


> Well this is the one I assumed I was supposed to be using as that's what it's supposed to be for the line output but when I do I have issues. The Stax and the mojo don't seem to like each other at that volume level it seems.
> I'm using one of these for the connection in case there was any doubt, although a better quality one


 
 Yes, but try to use a bit quality cable rather than $1 cheap cable.
 I use Bluerigger, because Monoprice RCA is not available in India.
  
 I am not saying to buy all Fancy Tesla, Dragonhawk named cables($100). But also please don't use any cable which is less than $10.


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## maximal112

yea of course, that's just the picture of one I googled, wasn't home at the time and couldn't remember what I had, I've got wireworld luna 7 is what I have been using. I wouldn't touch something like the one in the picture


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## astrostar59

pokemonn said:


> Mojo has line out put mode (3V).


 
*Line Level Mode *
*Mojo has been optimised for portable use, but can also be used as a system DAC. Please note that the design of Mojo means that power is always taken from the battery so, in certain circumstances, you may deplete the battery faster than it can recharge. Therefore it is recommended that you switch off Mojo when not in use so the battery can have a full charge cycle ready for the next listening session. Mojo should not be permanently switched on. *
*To set the output level to 3V (line level) for connection to a preamplifier press both volume buttons together when switching on the unit. Both volume balls will illuminate light blue. This mode is not remembered so when you switch Mojo off it will reset back to the previous volume stored for safety reasons. *




  
  
 Maybe the issue is the battery then and it was running out before it could power the line out?
  
 Regardless I am not sure if this unit is really good enough to supply a Stax amp? There would be quality gains to be had with a better dedicated source IMO.


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## organ_donor

I used to pair my mojo with srm 007tii to demo sr009,sr007,L700. Sound sweet, no issue at all for 2-3 hours listening continuously.


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## n3rdling

Isolate the issue.  I'm sure you have a TV or blu ray player, or CD player, or sound card, or something with RCA or XLR outs.  Connect your Stax setup to that and see if the issue goes away.  If it does, then you know for sure it's either the DAC or cable acting up.  If it doesn't then it's the amp or HP.


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## martyn73

I am worried about the sound of the L700 headphones which is thin and tends to emphasise 's' and 'ch' sounds and words ending 'se', especially with female singers. It is not quite sibilance or a peaky treble like the HD800, but the treble is occasionally sparkly and can make female singers uncomfortable to listen to. My set up is a PC with Chord Mojo and SRM-006t. I have also tried my Asus STX II. Is this normal? If so, I think I've made a big mistake and preferred the L500 headphones.


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## maximal112

n3rdling said:


> Isolate the issue.  I'm sure you have a TV or blu ray player, or CD player, or sound card, or something with RCA or XLR outs.  Connect your Stax setup to that and see if the issue goes away.  If it does, then you know for sure it's either the DAC or cable acting up.  If it doesn't then it's the amp or HP.


 
 I already did, I connected to the headphone out of my AV receiver because that was easiest at the time and running some music through there that I was streaming I had no problems. Connected the Mojo back up and problems started again


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## astrostar59

martyn73 said:


> I am worried about the sound of the L700 headphones which is thin and tends to emphasise 's' and 'ch' sounds and words ending 'se', especially with female singers. It is not quite sibilance or a peaky treble like the HD800, but the treble is occasionally sparkly and can make female singers uncomfortable to listen to. My set up is a PC with Chord Mojo and SRM-006t. I have also tried my Asus STX II. Is this normal? If so, I think I've made a big mistake and preferred the L500 headphones.


 

 I would say it is your source. You need a good DAC which is smooth sounding to get the best from Stax headphones. They are so transparent, any digital edge is going to hurt TBH.
  
 A 400 USD Mojo is not good enough. Don't give up yet, the magic is there, you just need to sort your source out.... USB audio is another subject, but you need the right software and a set up PC. Off the shelf it will sound rubbish TBH.
  
 The 007s are more forgiving, but those need a better amplifier. Best bet is get a streamer / DAC combo from Naim or similar. Ditch the PC and USB if not spending decent money.


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## martyn73

astrostar59 said:


> I would say it is your source. You need a good DAC which is smooth sounding to get the best from Stax headphones. They are so transparent, any digital edge is going to hurt TBH.
> 
> A 400 USD Mojo is not good enough. Don't give up yet, the magic is there, you just need to sort your source out.... USB audio is another subject, but you need the right software and a set up PC. Off the shelf it will sound rubbish TBH.
> 
> The 007s are more forgiving, but those need a better amplifier. Best bet is get a streamer / DAC combo from Naim or similar. Ditch the PC and USB if not spending decent money.


 
 Thanks for the reply. I previously used my PC with a SR-404 and SRM-006t fed by an Asus STX and, despite the unpretentious source, the sound quality was generally impressive with good bass and a clear non-sibilant treble. The L500 did not provide a significant improvement over the SR-404 so I thought that the L700 would be a good solution. I tried both the Mojo and Asus with the L700 and the abrasive treble (rather than pure sibilance) was present. The L700 is overall brighter and seems to emphasis treble slightly more than older Lambdas (previously I owned an SR-202 Basic system) with the effect, that to me at least, many tracks are now sounding annoyingly harsh. I used to own a Chord Hugo which should have been an acceptable source but the only real difference with the Mojo is a very slightly flatter frequency response. I'm not sure that the source is the problem, but I'll experiment using just a media player with the PC shut down. The 007s are slightly out of my price range sadly and so is a fancy non-Stax amplifier. I guess my L700 headphones are now destined for another owner.


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## astrostar59

I can't say as I haven't heard the L700, but I had many Lambdas which had a slightly tilted treble edge. It was only tamed by a great source. Most modern DACs are quite bright and 'hifi' sounding.
  
 You will probably have the same issues with the HD800s.
  
 I would say it is worth keeping to Stax and trying your amp and headphones from a different source. Can you get to a demo room with a Naim DAC? Or a Metrum Octave which is R-2R which I prefer  personally. High end headphones can send you down this road I am afraid. Might be why many go Hifi-Man or LCD2 as they are warmer and less transparent (forgiving).
  
 You know you can get the 007s from Price Japan for probably what you paid for the L700.


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## maximal112

I'd be curious to know how to go with/without using the Mojo as I've been using one with my Stax as well and having a few issues with it. Have you tried running the mojo from a different source other than your computer? I have yet to try that and will do when I get home from work today, wondering if the issues I'm having are coming from the streaming between the two via USB rather than the mojo itself. Curious whether it's maybe as Astro has been saying, the Mojo isn't pushing out a good enough signal to get the best out of what we're using.
 Best of luck to you


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## martyn73

astrostar59 said:


> I can't say as I haven't heard the L700, but I had many Lambdas which had a slightly tilted treble edge. It was only tamed by a great source. Most modern DACs are quite bright and 'hifi' sounding.
> 
> You will probably have the same issues with the HD800s.
> 
> ...


 
 Would the 007s work with the SRM-006t? The difficulty with Price Japan is the inevitable customs charge.


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## astrostar59

martyn73 said:


> Would the 007s work with the SRM-006t? The difficulty with Price Japan is the inevitable customs charge.


 

 Speak via email to Kaneda, I didn't pay anything. The 007A will struggle on that amp, it isn't powerful enough. The old 717 (second hand) is better, or the current 727 with the Spritzer mod done to it.


----------



## martyn73

maximal112 said:


> I'd be curious to know how to go with/without using the Mojo as I've been using one with my Stax as well and having a few issues with it. Have you tried running the mojo from a different source other than your computer? I have yet to try that and will do when I get home from work today, wondering if the issues I'm having are coming from the streaming between the two via USB rather than the mojo itself. Curious whether it's maybe as Astro has been saying, the Mojo isn't pushing out a good enough signal to get the best out of what we're using.
> Best of luck to you


 
 Thanks, regrettably the sound was virtually identical with the Asus STX II as with the Mojo via USB. In theory the Mojo should produce a cleaner output than a PC sound card.


----------



## Michgelsen

martyn73 said:


> Would the 007s work with the SRM-006t? The difficulty with Price Japan is the inevitable customs charge.


 
  
 I agree with astrostar that the 717 is better than the 006t. More control, tighter bass, mostly, from what I remember. I tried my SR-007 with my old SRM-T1 (virtually the same as 006t) once, and yes it works, but it's not optimal.
  
 Even with import duties, it's still cheaper than buying locally. And you can always go the second-hand route. That's even cheaper. If your L700 is very new and in mint condition, you could even propose a trade for a 007 here in the For Sale section, although I don't know if people would be interested. I can imagine however that the 007 is not for everyone, especially for people with weaker amps, so you might give it a shot.


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## martyn73

astrostar59 said:


> Speak via email to Kaneda, I didn't pay anything. The 007A will struggle on that amp, it isn't powerful enough. The old 717 (second hand) is better, or the current 727 with the Spritzer mod done to it.


 
 Would this amp work well with the 007A? http://knob.planet.ee/amps/staxneb1/staxneb1.htm


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## maximal112

So just because electronics like to confuse me, gone to listen to mojo again this afternoon. As usual turn on line level and working perfectly this time again, didn't have to touch the volume. 2 hours so far and no issues, haven't changed a thing from how it was set up the other day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 also, opinions on Schiit Gungnir multi-bit still thinking of upgrading


----------



## heyyeh

Can anyone please advise where I can get replacement earpads and headband for the SR-009 headphone?  Mine are wearing out.
 Thanks.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

At the place you've bought your 009. Until now, Stax has a very strong policy for 009's spare parts, asking you to show S/N and/or invoice to ensure the country of origin.
 You can also check e-bay.

 Ali


----------



## lilbthebasedgod

So I am moving to a Stax SR-Lambda (Normal Bias) powered by a SRM-1/MK2.
  
 I have a few questions.
  
 1.  I know how to balance the voltage in a Pro-Bias socket, but how do you do that in a normal bias socket?
  
 2. Because this is older, I assume that there is eventually going to be some maintenance required.  What do you normally have to do?  The person I bought them from renewed the wool already.

 3.  What am I in for?  I'm moving from a Stax SR-404LE with a SRM-3 to a Lambda with a SRM-1/MK2.  What are the major differences?  The frequency responses are extremely similar, but people say that the Lambda is way more bass light even though graphs show slightly more bass.  I'm assuming because the 404LE has slower decay. I didn't find the 404LE bass light and really don't know what to expect.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

lilbthebasedgod said:


> So I am moving to a Stax SR-Lambda (Normal Bias) powered by a SRM-1/MK2.
> 
> I have a few questions.
> 
> ...


 

 interesting change in gear.  I would have held on to the 404LE and paired it with the srm1-mk2.  the 404LE and the normal bias lambda are "generally" considered to be a couple of the top Lambdas.
  
 as far as maintenance on the headphones themselves, there really is none.  If the pads have flattened, I suppose you can get some new pads.  renewing the wool isnt really even necessary.  some take the wool out completely.  The only thing I can think of that needs to be done if it hasnt been is to recap the srm1-mk2.  its probably one of the easiest recaps possible, so you can DIY.


----------



## lilbthebasedgod

keithpgdrb said:


> interesting change in gear.  I would have held on to the 404LE and paired it with the srm1-mk2.  the 404LE and the normal bias lambda are "generally" considered to be a couple of the top Lambdas.
> 
> as far as maintenance on the headphones themselves, there really is none.  If the pads have flattened, I suppose you can get some new pads.  renewing the wool isnt really even necessary.  some take the wool out completely.  The only thing I can think of that needs to be done if it hasnt been is to recap the srm1-mk2.  its probably one of the easiest recaps possible, so you can DIY.


 
 Pads have been replaced with the SR-Lambda Professional pads.  I assume this will add bass-response because those pads are supposed to fit better.
  
 The amp went kaput.  I still have it but the main board is dead and carbonized.  I don't know if it still has for-parts value.  I sold the 404LE after testing if they still work because of this.  I got money from something else but not enough to buy a 404LE and a new amp again so I saw the NB Lambda was cheaper and considered good and pulled the trigger.  
  
 Still don't know what to expect soundwise.  Everyone seems to be saying different things about them.  Everyone seems to like them, but just the descriptions are sometimes wildly different.  Some say its the fastest lambda up there with the signature, some say its a bit more mellow and laid back, some say warm, some say very airy, etc.

 Frequency response pretty much shows that its almost the exact same as the SR-404LE with differences in slightly less midbass, slightly less of a midrange bump, and more extended highs and the CSD seems much faster of a decay.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

lilbthebasedgod said:


> Pads have been replaced with the SR-Lambda Professional pads.  I assume this will add bass-response because those pads are supposed to fit better.
> 
> The amp went kaput.  I still have it but the main board is dead and carbonized.  I don't know if it still has for-parts value.  I sold the 404LE after testing if they still work because of this.  I got money from something else but not enough to buy a 404LE and a new amp again so I saw the NB Lambda was cheaper and considered good and pulled the trigger.
> 
> ...


 
 so which amp went kaput?  not the srm1-mk2 right?  That is a great amp, and an excellent pairing with both the LE and the NB lambda.  I would say only bested "maybe" by the new L500 and L700.  Although I have not heard those.  So I cant say that  from experience.  But ears I trust make me want the L700.  A lot.  Comparison necessary though.
  
 I have the NB lambda and the Airbow SC1 which is a lot like the 404LE, both with the srm1mk2 as well.
  
 I know what you mean about the descriptions.  so much of that is difficult to put into perspective.  Let us know what you find, and what stuff your listening to.  that means a lot.


----------



## lilbthebasedgod

No, the SRM-3 went kaput, and I know its no different than reading other people's vague and contradictory descriptions of the NB, but how do the SC1 and NB compare in terms of sound and quality?


----------



## Pokemonn

Does anyone use tube preamp/buffer amp/DACs for your Stax rig? what is your favorite tube units?
 I found tube pre amp makes sound much smoother. 
  
 Marantz SA11S3 -> Schiit Lyr2(as pre amp) -> Stax SRM-717 -> SR-009/007 = eargasm heaven!
  
 I also understand today why...
  
 * astrostar uses Audio Note UK tube DAC.
 * Senheiser HE1(aka orpheus 2) uses so many tubes.
 * hifiman shangri-la use 300B tube amp.
 * TOTL electrostatic amps are all tubes (DIYT2 BHSE etc)
 * most expensive Stax amp is also tube amp(SRM-007tII)
 * Jude loves frank cooter tube amp for stax.
 * Tyll love/recommend BHSE.
  
 Thank you very much


----------



## astrostar59

pokemonn said:


> Does anyone use tube preamp/buffer amp/DACs for your Stax rig? what is your favorite tube units?
> I found tube pre amp makes sound much smoother.
> 
> Marantz SA11S3 -> Schiit Lyr2(as pre amp) -> Stax SRM-717 -> SR-009/007 = eargasm heaven!
> ...


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Too bad Stax never did some SR-5 Pro...SR-Gamma and SR-X enclosures are not as good as SR-5 ones to me. There's one head-fier who diy-ed the transplant, maybe one day I'll butcher my SR-Gamma Pro... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ali


----------



## JimL11

pokemonn said:


> * TOTL electrostatic amps are all tubes (DIYT2 BHSE etc)
> * most expensive Stax amp is also tube amp(SRM-007tII)
> * Tyll love/recommend BHSE.


 
 Um, actually the DIYT2, BHSE and SRM-007tII are all hybrid amps.
  
 The DIY T2 has tube input and output stages, but solid state intermediate stages.
  
 The BHSE in solid state up to the output stage, which is tubed
  
 The SRM-007tII is also solid state to the output stage, which is tubed.


----------



## Pokemonn

Thank you very much for clarification! thank you Jim.


----------



## Currawong

astrostar59 said:


> Regardless I am not sure if this unit is really good enough to supply a Stax amp? There would be quality gains to be had with a better dedicated source IMO.


 
  
 The problem with the Mojo is that it is so unconventionally designed that the normal logic that we might apply to a source doesn't apply to it. It only has a single amplification stage inside and almost none of the circuitry associated with a regular DAC. Nor does it have a conventional volume control.
  
 To set up a Mojo with a Stax amp, probably the best option is to set the Stax amp's volume should to the 12 o'clock position and then the volume adjusted to a comfortable level on the Mojo. I wouldn't bother using the "line out" mode. All that does is set a 3V output volume level. It has zero other effect on the output. 
  
 IIRC a standard 2V output from the Mojo is 3 clicks on the "-" volume button from the line-out level volume. Aside from that, any suitable volume level will work. If something isn't working at a particular volume level (eg: the amplification circuit in the Stax amp or another amp is distorting) then the volume on the Mojo should be adjusted until this stops happening. Importantly, again, it absolutely doesn't matter what volume level is set at on the Mojo if everything is working without distortion.


----------



## richard51

ali-pacha said:


> Too bad Stax never did some SR-5 Pro...SR-Gamma and SR-X enclosures are not as good as SR-5 ones to me. There's one head-fier who diy-ed the transplant, maybe one day I'll butcher my SR-Gamma Pro...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 i had read all your post about the SR-5... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 thanks to you... I had one and with the sorbothane mod. i had no more upgraditis....Where is the headphone who will be better (there is some i think for sure) BUT organically musical like it ? there is also some but what is their price?


----------



## maximal112

currawong said:


> The problem with the Mojo is that it is so unconventionally designed that the normal logic that we might apply to a source doesn't apply to it. It only has a single amplification stage inside and almost none of the circuitry associated with a regular DAC. Nor does it have a conventional volume control.
> 
> To set up a Mojo with a Stax amp, probably the best option is to set the Stax amp's volume should to the 12 o'clock position and then the volume adjusted to a comfortable level on the Mojo. I wouldn't bother using the "line out" mode. All that does is set a 3V output volume level. It has zero other effect on the output.
> 
> IIRC a standard 2V output from the Mojo is 3 clicks on the "-" volume button from the line-out level volume. Aside from that, any suitable volume level will work. If something isn't working at a particular volume level (eg: the amplification circuit in the Stax amp or another amp is distorting) then the volume on the Mojo should be adjusted until this stops happening. Importantly, again, it absolutely doesn't matter what volume level is set at on the Mojo if everything is working without distortion.


 
 Thank you for the detailed reply, helps to give a bit more understanding about what is happening. From what you're saying it seems like while it can be made to work the Mojo isn't ideally suited for what I'm trying to use it for. While I know it isn't quite the intended use given its a headphone amplifier, didn't expect to encounter this kind of issue. The search continues to find a dedicated DAC
 Thanks for the help


----------



## Ali-Pacha

richard51 said:


> i had read all your post about the SR-5...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You are obviously confusing.
  
 Ali


----------



## richard51

This is one of your multiple posts about the SR-5 here... Not necessary to give the others to refresh your memory...
  
 Quote:


ali-pacha said:


> I've had my SR-5 for over 35 years, got my hands on SR-407 few days ago, and I don't feel one is better than another. Especially considering mids, which are truly lovely on SR-5. Dynamics and details are better on 407, but not sure bass extension is so much better on 407 (slight weakness of 407 among Lambdas). BTW, I haven't done any side by side comparison on my SRM-1/mk2 Pro, only Lambda Sig vs 407 on my modded 727, and Lambda NB vs 407 on SRM-1/mk2 Pro...
> 
> Which amps / transformers do you have ?
> 
> Ali


 

 i dont know if i am confusing like you say .... but anyway thank you for your help, i have much appreciated your impression of the SR-5 before buying one and i dont regret it....


----------



## Quixote79

pokemonn said:


> Does anyone use tube preamp/buffer amp/DACs for your Stax rig? what is your favorite tube units?
> I found tube pre amp makes sound much smoother.
> 
> Marantz SA11S3 -> Schiit Lyr2(as pre amp) -> Stax SRM-717 -> SR-009/007 = eargasm heaven!
> ...


 
  
 very interesting
 can you tell more on how you use the eargasm with your 009/007? ....found some eargasm at amazon  but they seems to be for concerts musicians motorcycles and more - is it the same you use?
 do you just plug them in your ears before using the 007?
 is they only necessary if one use tubes?


----------



## astrostar59

Hi All
 I have a 23 month old 009 I bought from a dealer in the UK. It has developed a marked channel imbalance. I have thus sent it to the service centre in the UK.
  
 My question, does anyone know if they would replace the problem driver, or both, or replace the whole headphone?
  
 I am unsure if a new driver would match the existing one that is ok. Stax do change production over time, and I can see a new driver would not match.
  
 I have read some guys on here had issues with their 009s and as that happened soon after purchase i.e. 2 or 3 months, they got a new pair.
  
 Any help would be great. I am hoping they don't need to go back to Japn, I am missing them already!


----------



## Michgelsen

23 months, that's quite old to develop imbalance. I always thought you'd be safe once the first few months were over. Lucky for you it's just within the two year warranty period (right?).
 It seems most logical to me that drivers are always installed as a matched set, but I don't have experience with this.


----------



## astrostar59

michgelsen said:


> 23 months, that's quite old to develop imbalance. I always thought you'd be safe once the first few months were over. Lucky for you it's just within the two year warranty period (right?).
> It seems most logical to me that drivers are always installed as a matched set, but I don't have experience with this.


 

 I thought that, as a matched set, which would be cool, 2 new drivers.
  
 Yes, I also thought the imbalance was a 3 month issue at most. This surprised me. I heard a slight crackle in the problem driver for about 3 seconds after I noticed the sound had dropped back. And again an hour later after I had discharged them and played another track. I also think it is a rare occurrence for the UK Stax repair folk from what I have heard. If I get a damage report I would be interested to know what happened.
  
 I stil want to own the 009s as they are so damb good. Anyway, have you seen the LCD imbalance thread, not pretty, and looks like a lot more cases.


----------



## plektret

Would Teac UD 503 be a suitable DAC for L700/353X, or is there a better DAC with DSD support in the same price class? I currently use the old Onkyo 200PCI soundcard.


----------



## Don Quichotte

Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> Hi All
> I have a 23 month old 009 I bought from a dealer in the UK. It has developed a marked channel imbalance. I have thus sent it to the service centre in the UK.
> 
> My question, does anyone know if they would replace the problem driver, or both, or replace the whole headphone?


 
 My - much cheaper - SR-303 needed a driver replacement a couple of times. The service guys have always replaced both drivers, they are matched. Your SR-009 will  certainly get both drivers replaced.


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> Hi All
> I have a 23 month old 009 I bought from a dealer in the UK. It has developed a marked channel imbalance. I have thus sent it to the service centre in the UK.
> 
> My question, does anyone know if they would replace the problem driver, or both, or replace the whole headphone?
> ...


 
  
  


don quichotte said:


> Quote:
> My - much cheaper - SR-303 needed a driver replacement a couple of times. The service guys have always replaced both drivers, they are matched. Your SR-009 will  certainly get both drivers replaced.


 
  
 I asked Electromod in UK, and was told the same, both drivers are replaced as they are matched.


----------



## astrostar59

soren_brix said:


> I asked Electromod in UK, and was told the same, both drivers are replaced as they are matched.


 
 Thanks guys. I hope that is the case. Thing is it isn't just the sound level but the frequency response as well, stuck pn your head you can tell really easily if they are out of parity.


----------



## goobicii

in what way is Woo Wee energizer detrimental to the sound quality? if you pair it with speaker amp that is same or better quality equivalent of things like T2 diy or kgsshv then wouldnt it be just as good as using mentioned amps?
  
 this Stax L700 looks very nice but I dont feel like dropping 4 and half K on Mjolnir Carbon amp when I already have super delicious high end speaker amp


----------



## Michgelsen

While I have never tried transformer boxes, and it goes against my principle and also against etiquette to comment on things I haven't heard myself, I'll say the following to give Stax noobs some general information: people have reported that transformer boxes do the dynamics very well, and can sound good in general, but are outclassed by the direct-drive electrostatic amps in other areas, such as details and control.
  
 I'm not sure what's up with the Woo Wee's bias resistor, and whether it is really too low in value, or whether this has been fixed in current-production models. It's always a safe bet to go with the old Stax transfomer boxes. The normal bias ones are usually much cheaper than the pro bias ones, and if you ask Birgir (a.k.a. Spritzer, via mjolnir-audio.com) nicely he could maybe sell you a small pcb to upgrade it to pro bias. He used to sell these boards in the past. You can thus upgrade a normal bias transformer box to a pro bias one. The transformers inside that do the actual work are the same. It's only the bias supply that needs to be different.


----------



## goobicii

I wonder,how many watts from conventional speaker amp would I need to run Stax headphones directly? lets say you have 1000w monoblocks,could it work?


----------



## soren_brix

goobicii said:


> I wonder,how many watts from conventional speaker amp would I need to run Stax headphones directly? lets say you have 1000w monoblocks,could it work?


 
 as Michegelsen point out many has been satiesfied with a transformer solution despites its limitations.
 The SRD-7 is a good choice.
 If you want better a pair of Lundahls LL1630 would do the trick, but you'll be looking at +300EUR (the cost of the last pair I bought) and need to add BIAS supply and chassie.
 You don't need much power ... you can wire the LL1630 to have lower ratio and thus need more, but nothing a modern amp can't supply. 100W monoblocks will do fine in either case.


----------



## goobicii

soren_brix said:


> as Michegelsen point out many has been satiesfied with a transformer solution despites its limitations.


 
  
 what kind of limitations are we talking about? will the transformer add harmonic distortion? noise? phase shift?? I still dont get what exactly in scientific terms happens to a signal from high end speaker amp that will in the end make it inferior to dedicated stax amp like bhse for example


----------



## Michgelsen

Limited frequency response at the extremes for one. Also, limited power handling. Usage with 1000W monoblocks is not advised.


----------



## Crashem

goobicii said:


> in what way is Woo Wee energizer detrimental to the sound quality? if you pair it with speaker amp that is same or better quality equivalent of things like T2 diy or kgsshv then wouldnt it be just as good as using mentioned amps?
> 
> this Stax L700 looks very nice but I dont feel like dropping 4 and half K on Mjolnir Carbon amp when I already have super delicious high end speaker amp


 
  
 The information you seek is around and the information seems obvious to experience stax guys.  Hence you are getting a bit of teasing.  To simplify things, the needs of a good electrostatic amp are different than a dynamic (current) amp.  Designed for two different things.  Think truck vs sports car.  Electrostatic amp needs to do huge voltage swings and little current.  While a good dynamic amp, needs to produce both current and voltage.
  
 So what does the energizer do?  It uses a transformer to convert current to voltage.  So if the transformer isn't good enough, it will limit things.  Again to use the truck/car comparison, just because you use device to convert the power of a big truck engine to generate speed doesn't suddenly make that truck a sports car.
  
 Read post #65 of following post from Spritzer, acknowledge expert in all things stax:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/504471/wee-new-product-from-woo-audio/60#post_6886820


----------



## bnsb

I have bought a Stax SRS 4170 Ear-speaker system by direct import from Japan. The unit I received naturally was set to 100V. Thanks to input from posters here in particularly Spritzer, I could get the input voltage changed to 230v. It took a qualified engineer 4 hours plus. Blew the fuse twice - the unit not engineer - the engineer was cool  Heard Stax for the first time in my life, Unbelievable experience. Thanks also to huge repository of knowledge shared here.


----------



## Michgelsen

It's good to hear that you like it, and that it's still possible to rewire Stax amps.


----------



## bnsb

Trust me it was 


michgelsen said:


> It's good to hear that you like it, and that it's still possible to rewire Stax amps.


 
 Trust me rewiring was tedious and nerve wracking. Luckily the guy who did it all like I said was thorough.


----------



## oogabooga

I had a chance to demo SR-407 and SR-507 at a local dealer today, using an SRM-727 amp and my Concero DAC. I could not hear a difference between the two, even after going back and forth extensively. 
  
 I have a large head (hat size 8) and the 507 were much more comfortable. I was only on position 7 of the 10-position slider, and the clamping force was just slightly more than my old Lambda-Pros, which is to say comfortable for long listening sessions. The pads are very nice, too. The 407 were quite tight on my head (not as bad as the SR-007, but close) and my right ear was just grazing the black fabric over the stator. 
  
 They sounded good - I only held off because the L700 is not so far away from the 507 in price, and I want to hear them first.


----------



## zolkis

martyn73 said:


> Would this amp work well with the 007A? http://knob.planet.ee/amps/staxneb1/staxneb1.htm




I have heard that combo and yes it works, at least as well as with the 007t.


----------



## zolkis

goobicii said:


> in what way is Woo Wee energizer detrimental to the sound quality? if you pair it with speaker amp that is same or better quality equivalent of things like T2 diy or kgsshv then wouldnt it be just as good as using mentioned amps?
> 
> this Stax L700 looks very nice but I dont feel like dropping 4 and half K on Mjolnir Carbon amp when I already have super delicious high end speaker amp




IMHO if you use a high end speaker amp together with a good quality transformer solution like Mjölnir Audio, or even the SRD7 Pro, that would be plenty good enough to drive the L700, and it would also tame the highs into a safely polite range from borderline rough.


----------



## Crashem

zolkis said:


> IMHO if you use a high end speaker amp together with a good quality transformer solution like Mjölnir Audio, or even the SRD7 Pro, that would be plenty good enough to drive the L700, and it would also tame the highs into a safely polite range from borderline rough.




I'm sure it will sound decent. But if you look at comments from Sprtizer, he has tried a transformer based solution (i.e. Energizer) with way better transformers than what is used in any energizer solution and finds them lacking as compared to amp solution. While a good speaker amp makes a difference, at end of day, it is just made for different purposes.


----------



## zolkis

Yes, transformers may lack in comparison with a good energizer, but:
 - I am not sure with what speaker amp Spritzer tried the transformer and to which energizer he did compare it to
 - the man mentioned he has a high end speaker amp and won't invest in e.g. a Carbon
 - he mentioned the L700.
  
 Based on what I've heard myself (with the 507, L700, 007 and 009), a transformer does very well from a high end tube amp.
  
 I am not sure if an entry level energizer would be as good as a high end speaker amp + transformers, for instance the 323S was clearly inferior with both the 507 and the 007.
  
 I am pretty sure Spritzer is right that a high end energizer is still better, but once the man is not going there, the question is what is the next best.
  
 Perhaps an all-tube mid-price energizer like the Konka amp would do well, I have heard that with the L700, 007 and 009, and it was smooth and nice. However, the transformer is cheaper, and likely more convenient for the use case.
  
 If he spends more time with the headphones than with speakers, I am pretty sure time will come to a dedicated high end energizer.


----------



## kevnin

@zolkis have you heard the 007 through an SRD-7 pro? I want to get an 007 but am wondering if I can get away with running it through an SRD-7 at least for a while before I move to a dedicated stat amp.


----------



## zolkis

Yes I still have an SRD-7 Pro, and it works with the 007, though I get better bass, dynamics and smoother resolution with a dedicated amp. It also depends on the speaker amp you're using. I tried cj tube amp, and Primaluna tube amp both with Valve Art EL34s, and a 120 W circlotron mosfet amp. Tube amps had bigger stage and opened the 007 more, especially the cj, but I guess it's not typical to use a 45kg amp with an octet of EL34s for driving a headphone


----------



## lilbthebasedgod

Ok, so impressions on the SR-*Λ. * These are not stock, they come with SR-*Λ *professional earpads.  In cosmetically great condition on the drivers with wear to the headband.  

 My previous stax experience was from the SR-404LE out of a SRM-3 from a Modi 2 so comparisons will be with that.  Driven by a SRM-1/MK2 and a modi 2.
  
 Bass:  The bass is definitely boomier on the 404LE.  I don't think its actually better tho.  People's measurements made me look into this and I don't see significant roll off until I get to around 40hz then from 40 on it starts to roll.  No measurements, just trying to guess based off of a tone generator.  Its a bit airier.  Not bad though at all.  Better than the newer lambdas I've heard.
  
 Midrange: Definitely fits with the rest of the sound better than the 404LE.  The 404LE has its mids a little recessed seaming while this seems smoother.  Has a bit of a highmid bump, but nothing huge. The upper mids seem more fun on the 404LE while its smoother on the Lambda.
  
 Highs: MUCH better on this.  No question.  The highs on this are perfectly placed and sound lightyears better.  
  
 Detail: Much better. I found this surprising.  Imaging and detail on this sound way better than the 404LE.  
  
 Soundstage: Very good imaging, and quite large.  Not HD800 or 009 or k1000 level, but still way above most headphones.
  
 The only real issue I have with it is not as punchy as the 404LE and most dynamics. Listening to a really agressive song sounds weaker than with a 404LE.  Less boomy bass and less upfront highmids are what I think is the issue.

 Seriously, I see people talking about this, and the general response is that its musical but has rolled off highs and lows.  I just can't hear that, and measurements posted everywhere don't show that.  This extends fairly well and is really, really good.


----------



## walakalulu

astrostar59 said:


> Hi All
> I have a 23 month old 009 I bought from a dealer in the UK. It has developed a marked channel imbalance. I have thus sent it to the service centre in the UK.
> 
> My question, does anyone know if they would replace the problem driver, or both, or replace the whole headphone?
> ...





I have heard that Stax have an increasing number of returns showing scorching of the drivers due to over voltage issues which then aren't covered by warranty. Hopefully yours have a different issue.


----------



## Jones Bob

walakalulu said:


> I have heard that Stax have an increasing number of returns showing scorching of the drivers due to over voltage issues which then aren't covered by warranty. Hopefully yours have a different issue.




Just where did you hear that?


----------



## Drumonron

walakalulu said:


> I have heard that Stax have an increasing number of returns showing scorching of the drivers due to over voltage issues which then aren't covered by warranty. Hopefully yours have a different issue.


 

 I don't know you, nor have I read any posts from you but this and I don't want to seem insensitive but this statement without any references is in itself something a troll would write.  Furthermore IMHO, posts like this should be removed from the forum altogether as it serves no purpose - heresy never does.


----------



## Cortazar

I would like to share my experiences with Stax - Transformer paired with some very good tube amplifier.
 As i have bought sr009 and heard it with 727 i knew it is something special about this HP and was ready to do everything to get the best out of them.
 I found combo 727 sr009 hyper detailed, it was really fun to hear it but... Sound felt the body, and i found bass to be a bit too shallow. 
 I have read this forum and bought kgsshv (spritzer) - much better bass and scene, much better control.
 Then i bought woo audio wes and found it even better. I thought my stax-way is over. Then i met some audiophile from Berlin who showed me his LRT (see here http://www.audiodesignguide.com/my/stax_transf.html
 http://peter.family-rill.de/Projekte/Stax-Transformator  )
 he even bettered it and named this LST.
 We had some long comparison woo audio wes vs. LST + accuphase P500 (costs used about 2500-3000 Euro) and i knew i have to sell my woo audio wes. LST + accuphase was better all the way. Incredible bass and highs, smooth mids and the control! Accuphase did whatever he wanted with sr009.
 I have tested ever since few very good amplifier with LST (kondo souga, EC 445, accuphase a70, octave v70 and some more) and found it sounds the best with powerful SET, as my ayon crossfire III or air tight ATM-300.
 This combos declasses other stax amplifier that i have heard (i have not heard blue hawaii as i do not wanted to wait 2 years )
 and it sounds better then sennheiser orpheus (yes we have compared it) I mean LST with orfpheus vs original orpheus amplifier.


----------



## Cortazar




----------



## Cortazar




----------



## zolkis

cortazar said:


> I would like to share my experiences with Stax - Transformer paired with some very good tube amplifier.
> As i have bought sr009 and heard it with 727 i knew it is something special about this HP and was ready to do everything to get the best out of them.
> I found combo 727 sr009 hyper detailed, it was really fun to hear it but... Sound felt the body, and i found bass to be a bit too shallow.
> I have read this forum and bought kgsshv (spritzer) - much better bass and scene, much better control.
> ...


 
  
 In the link above the Lundahl pdf link was broken, here is the transformer that was used in the project:
http://www.lundahl.se/wp-content/uploads/datasheets/1620_3_7_9202.pdf
  
 Nice impressions, similar to the Verto box reports.
  
 No doubt it sounds very good, but it would be still interesting to know the slew rate of a transformer solution vs e.g. the Carbon say up to 16 kHz.


----------



## padam

lilbthebasedgod said:


> Ok, so impressions on the SR-*Λ. * These are not stock, they come with SR-*Λ *professional earpads.  In cosmetically great condition on the drivers with wear to the headband.


 
  
 Excellent impressions, mirrors my opinions (although not completely fair, from what I've gathered the SRM-3 is not nearly as good as the SRM-1 Mk2)


----------



## zolkis

Some FR measurements of my 007 Mk1 used with modded 009 ear pads:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/754839/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods/30#post_12501147


----------



## Drumonron

Just a quick update: received my SR-009s on Wednesday, April 6th and have had some time with them but
 hardly enough - these are Headphone crack(early impressions).  First impressions so far: you put them on and
 enter a musical world - they put you in the music - the music is all around me and I'm in it.  This is to say that, compared
 to my highly vaunted and loved HD800s from 2008(or when they were first introduced), The Stax Sr009s allow me into
 the studio or venue as compared to the HD800s which place you in the audience.  More to follow but it is early.  Impressions
 of the build quality and comfort are unsurpassed - these headphones literally disappear.  As with all my listening sessions,
 I close my eyes and am immersed. 
  
 I'm using the following chain for my eargasmic pleasure:
 MBP (using bitperfect) -> DAC1 USB -> Stax SRM-006tII -> Stax SR-009
  
 HD800 setup:
 MBP(using bitperfect) -> DAC1 USB -> Headamp GS-1 -> HD800
  
*PICTURES!!!: cause really, what's a post in head-fi without 'em, right?*
  

  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  

  

  

  
  
  
  
*about the Stax Energiser used:*
  
Stax SRM-006tII





 The movement toward wider band ranges in the world of audio is evident. For example, in the appearance of SACD and DVD audio,
 it is much like the mega-pixel of CCD light-receiving elements in digital cameras.
 What will CCDs, which have already topped the 10 million mark, carry out?
 It isn’t simply a question of images not deteriorating as a result of enlargement.
 The real benefits come from the ability to show every single human eyelash with absolute clarity and
 from the richness of gradation of shading.Electrostatic earspeaker systems are being reassessed as next-generation
 audio systems that make it possible to achieve an astonishingly wide range and now, their real value is being recognized.
 Vacuum tube output stage transformer made possible by use of the electrostatic method, ideal pure balance operation
 with no need for an inverted circuit, a DC amplified configuration… The new SRM-006tII has evolved into a new territory with
 wider band range and detailed refinements.


----------



## soren_brix

drumonron said:


> Pulled the trigger and just ordered the SR-007 MK2, I looked over many impressions and I'm taking the plunge.  I was struggling with either the 007 or 009 but I decided to go with the 007.  Wish me luck.  PS.  Been a long time since I posted!  Let me just say I have no intentions of ordering a 5 - 10k amp for it.  Gonna use what I have been using and see what I think.  Good to see this community is still thriving.


 
 ...so not happy about the 007's?


----------



## astrostar59

soren_brix said:


> ...so not happy about the 007's?


 

 Ehh, it that really old that post? Anyway, I like the 007A but not the older MK2/2.5. I can't say so much on the MK1 as never owned that.
  
 IMO the current 007A is damb good, slays the older Mk2 versions for sure. If you think it is less the half the cost of the 009, then a bargain in it's way.
  
 It is also more forgiving with sources / brighter recordings,


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> Ehh, it that really old that post? Anyway, I like the 007A but not the older MK2/2.5. I can't say so much on the MK1 as never owned that.
> 
> IMO the current 007A is damb good, slays the older Mk2 versions for sure. If you think it is less the half the cost of the 009, then a bargain in it's way.
> 
> It is also more forgiving with sources / brighter recordings,


 
 just wish you had mention this earlier on ...


----------



## astrostar59

soren_brix said:


> just wish you had mention this earlier on ...


 

 I don't understand. Pretty much everyone agrees the 007 is more forgiving than the 009. However the 009 is the better headphone if it has a good front end and a good amplifier to drive it. This is pretty much how speakers are actually. A simple 2 way speaker is more forgiving, but a more advanced and higher quality speaker will reveal a lot more of what the source is doing, which in the case of a lesser front end is not good news, but a better front end and it will sound incredible.
  
 So there we have the audiophile dilemma, do we buy amazing headphones and skimp on the rest of the system? I would say no as it doesn't work out.


----------



## lilbthebasedgod

padam said:


> Excellent impressions, mirrors my opinions (although not completely fair, from what I've gathered the SRM-3 is not nearly as good as the SRM-1 Mk2)


 
 Yeah, that's what I was thinking.  I don't think the 404LE is particularly hard to drive at all, so I doubt it would make up all the difference, but it might some.


----------



## joseph69

I received a Mjolnir KGST this morning  from the F/S forums until my BHSE arrives, and I must say I'm enjoying the combo very much!


----------



## edstrelow

padam said:


> Excellent impressions, mirrors my opinions (although not completely fair, from what I've gathered the SRM-3 is not nearly as good as the SRM-1 Mk2)



I have both and generally agree. The key advantage of the Srm1Mk 2 is higher voltage swing, 370 volts Vs 300 for the Srm3. This translates into better dynamics.


----------



## martyn73

I've just got a SR-007A - what's the best amplifier from Stax? I've got a SRM-006t but have read postings which suggest that it's not a good pairing with the SR-007A. Does the SRM-353X produce more voltage, albeit without the typical valve sound? I cannot stand sibilance so prefer a warmer sound. Unfortunately, exotic amplifiers and Stax's own SRM-727 are not an option. I read a review on Innerfidelity which was critical of the SRM-007.
  
 So far, the SR-007A has more bass impact than the SR-L700 and SR-404LE, but I'm not entirely sure whether a solid state SRM-353X is suitable. Any advice most welcome.


----------



## Rhamnetin

martyn73 said:


> I've just got a SR-007A - what's the best amplifier from Stax? I've got a SRM-006t but have read postings which suggest that it's not a good pairing with the SR-007A. Does the SRM-353X produce more voltage, albeit without the typical valve sound? I cannot stand sibilance so prefer a warmer sound. Unfortunately, exotic amplifiers and Stax's own SRM-727 are not an option. I read a review on Innerfidelity which was critical of the SRM-007.
> 
> So far, the SR-007A has more bass impact than the SR-L700 and SR-404LE, but I'm not entirely sure whether a solid state SRM-353X is suitable. Any advice most welcome.


 
  
 The SRM-353X is said to be the best out of the box Stax amp, followed by the SRM-323S.  Both have the most power if I recall correctly which is great for the SR-007.


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## martyn73

rhamnetin said:


> The SRM-353X is said to be the best out of the box Stax amp, followed by the SRM-323S.  Both have the most power if I recall correctly which is great for the SR-007.


 
 I wonder if it's better to apply EQ to slightly reduce treble using a parametric equalizer or use a valve/valve hybrid amplifier.


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## Michgelsen

rhamnetin said:


> The SRM-353X is said to be the best out of the box Stax amp, followed by the SRM-323S.  Both have the most power if I recall correctly which is great for the SR-007.


 
  
 No, the 717 and 727 have the most power of all Stax common amps (which does not include the T2 of course). However, the 727 needs to have the feedback mod applied to sound best, and that's why you do not often see it recommended as best 'out-of-the-box' Stax amp. 717 sounds great though if you can find one second hand.


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## DolphinG

Received SR-L700 from local distributor yesterday.
 Compared it with SR-009 and SR-507 for several hours. (with SRM-300)
 More comfortable and neutral than SR-507. (But I also like SR-507 sound)
 I think that it can be compared to Nova Lambdas, and closer to SR-009 sound than other lambdas.
 Checked if metal case-holder of SR-507 works on SR-L700, and found that it fits very well.
 But opposite does not work as hinge of SR-L700 case-holder is a little bit longer than that of SR-507.
 I like SRM-300 but should test it with SRM-727A and SRM-252S.


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## soren_brix

martyn73 said:


> I've just got a SR-007A - what's the best amplifier from Stax? I've got a SRM-006t but have read postings which suggest that it's not a good pairing with the SR-007A. Does the SRM-353X produce more voltage, albeit without the typical valve sound? I cannot stand sibilance so prefer a warmer sound. Unfortunately, exotic amplifiers and Stax's own SRM-727 are not an option. I read a review on Innerfidelity which was critical of the SRM-007.
> 
> So far, the SR-007A has more bass impact than the SR-L700 and SR-404LE, but I'm not entirely sure whether a solid state SRM-353X is suitable. Any advice most welcome.


 
  


> Originally Posted by *Kevin Gilmore*  /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The 727 is a local feedback version of the 717. The 727 has a current source, the 717 has a resistor. Otherwise virtually identical.
> The 727 runs the output stage at higher power.
> ...


 
  
 So far, no hard evidence that a 353x is more than a 323s/313 with added balanced input.
 To drive your 007's you probably need 717/727/KGSS/KGSShv ...


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## martyn73

michgelsen said:


> No, the 717 and 727 have the most power of all Stax common amps (which does not include the T2 of course). However, the 727 needs to have the feedback mod applied to sound best, and that's why you do not often see it recommended as best 'out-of-the-box' Stax amp. 717 sounds great though if you can find one second hand.


 
 The SRM-727 has a power rating of 450V r.m.s./1kHz compared with 400V r.m.s/1kHz for the SRM-353X and 300V for the SRM-006t, but I don't really understand voltage swing.


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## Michgelsen

The larger the voltage swing, the louder the headphones can go. This isn't very useful by itself, but simply put: the larger the reserves of an amp, the better it can control the headphones during the extremes of the music. That's why more powerful amps have better dynamics and control, and have more headroom before they start clipping in loud passages such as bass beats.
  
 Voltage swing can be quoted in different forms, such as RMS (root mean square) or p.p. (peak to peak) or in yet other ways. You can't compare these directly, but you can convert between them.
  
 Electrostatic headphones mainly require voltage to work, and barely any amperes (current). Obviously, there must still be a small current, but I do not know how these relate to amp or headphone performance.


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## astrostar59

martyn73 said:


> The SRM-727 has a power rating of 450V r.m.s./1kHz compared with 400V r.m.s/1kHz for the SRM-353X and 300V for the SRM-006t, but I don't really understand voltage swing.


 

 The specs are a guide to what a particular amplifier can output. But the sound quality you get is not always pro-rata. My 717 was supped to be 450v but it sounded more like half the power and dynamics of my KGSShv. My amp also sits on 10mA power supply, so probably a reason it sounds so fast and alive compared to the more restricted Stax amps.
  
 I would try and get to hear a good KG amplifier before you spend on another Stax amp.


----------



## soren_brix

michgelsen said:


> Electrostatic headphones mainly require voltage to work, and barely any amperes (current). Obviously, there must still be a small current, but I do not know how these relate to amp or headphone performance.


 
  
 The current required to drive a phone depends on the phones capacitance (incl cable), the frequency and the volume.
 The higher the volume the higher the current is needed.
  
 As KG pointed out in the post I quoted a few posts back, the KGSS ~ 717, and the KGSShv ~ 727.
  
 The difference between KGSShv and KGSS is mainly the addition of current sources.
 Comparing a 717 to a KGSShv is more or less comparing the amp without/with current sources not to speak about the PSUs being very different.
 Spritzer has mentioned several times that the Stax amps are equipped with mediocre PSU's , I guess that covers the 717 and 727 as well.
  
 I'd say that current is equal as important as voltage swing, although people tend to focus on the latter.
  
 That said, doing the math considering 007 and 009, it sort of end up very much the same place, but the 007 is so much harder to drive ... so there are much more to it than just looking at voltage swing and current.
 As for my own experience the 007 never really came to life using either 323 nor 006t. Using a KGSS sort of made the 007 sing. Same experience using the Sigmas.
 The KGSShv is better in comparison to the KGSS ... and one could continue  .... although it will mainly be reports from the land of diminish returns ...
  
 For someone buying a new pair of 007s and wants to get the most of it I guess the only option is 727 or some 2nd hand 717/KGSS or similar (some also like Cavalli's)


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## astrostar59

Not sure if that is all correct.
  
 Here is the specs via Kevin Gilmour:
  
 3000 volts peak to peak stator to stator (+/-750 power supplies)
 KG TOGTE
  
2400 volts peak to peak stator to stator (+/-600 power supplies)
koss esp950
  
2300 volts peak to peak stator to stator (+/-575 power supplies)
KG’s new Silicon Carbide jfet based space heater.
  
2000 volts peak to peak stator to stator  (+/-500 power supplies)
Stax T2, DIY T2, KGSSHV (ixys parts)
  
1800 volts peak to peak stator to stator (+/-450 power supplies)
KGSSHV (sanyo parts)
 craig has said his new electra amp does 1800 volts, power supply unknown
 Ergo Jecklin
  
1600 volts peak to peak stator to stator (+/-400 power supplies)
BH, BHSE, singlepower ES1,ESX (after being modified to remove the 100V offset)
Cavalli Audio Liquid Lightning
  
1400 volts peak to peak stator to stator  (+/-350 power supplies)
KGSS,Stax T1,T1s,T1W,313,323,717,727,sra-14s,srm-1 mk2,srm-monitor
woo audio wes
  
 1300 volts peak to peak  stator to stator
 stax sra-10s/12s
  
1200 volts peak to peak (+/-300 power supplies, and +600 capacitively coupled)
KG tube #1,aristaeus,HEV70,HEV90,RSA A10,srm300,Exstata
 Egmont,Cirolan,SRM-1,srm-3,woo audio ges,srm310
  
 1100 volts peak to peak stator to stator
 stax sra-3s
 stax srm-001 (when the batterys are at full power)
  
 1000 volts peak to peak (+/-260 volt power supplies)
 Rudistor Egmont
  
 960 volts peak to peak stator to stator
 Stax srmXh, srm212
  
 540 volts peak to peak stator to stator
 Very early HEV70  (+525 volt power supply and tubes biased at 390 volts)
  
 I can say categorically the Stax 727/717 is way behind my KGSShv, I know I had the 717 at the same time on my 007As and the 009s. It is also not just the specs or voltage, the design of the power supply and the output is key here. The 717 sounds thin, strained and flat with a constricted soundstage and a cold unnatural treble. So listening is the key here, the specs try to say they are close which is afar from the truth.


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## martyn73

astrostar59 said:


> Not sure if that is all correct.
> 
> Here is the specs via Kevin Gilmour:
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks, how does the Nezzar amp compare with Stax amps?


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## Michgelsen

astrostar59 said:


> I can say categorically the Stax 727/717 is way behind my KGSShv, I know I had the 717 at the same time on my 007As and the 009s. It is also not just the specs or voltage, the design of the power supply and the output is key here. The 717 sounds thin, strained and flat with a constricted soundstage and a cold unnatural treble. So listening is the key here, the specs try to say they are close which is afar from the truth.


 
  
 I know you're very fond of the KG amps, but which Stax amps do you like best?


----------



## astrostar59

michgelsen said:


> I know you're very fond of the KG amps, but which Stax amps do you like best?


 
  
 I have heard the 007t and it was quite nice at low volume or classical material, but ran out of juice quickly on my 007s and sounded stained and compressed. The bass was also loose and lacked drive and depth.
  
 I had a 323 which was ok, but the last amp I had was the 717, much better. With the 007s it was on the limit I think, and the cold treble and thinness of the sound was irritating to me. It was clearly the best of those amps though. The 727 is not quite as good as they messed up the feedback stage. It can be reversed but why hack a new amp? Better buy a KG amp instead.


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## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> The 727 is not quite as good as they messed up the feedback stage.


 
 what does that mean?


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## astrostar59

soren_brix said:


> what does that mean?


 

 This is common knowledge on this forum. Google 727 mod.


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## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> This is common knowledge on this forum. Google 727 mod.


 
 so you haven't really compared a stock 727 with a modded 727, but rather concluded that since you don't like the stock 727 and have read that some says that Stax messed up the feedback loop this is the reason to your disliking ...


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I own a 727 (+lots of different Staxens) and had the mod done few months ago.
  
 Stock 727 is not a bad amp since it has a lot of power, but it does have some weaknesses :
 - bass is a bit bloated. Pleasing on some genre, because it brings some meat around the bone and fights e-stat trend to sound ethereal, but not very tight / precise
 - dynamic is a bit compressed. 
 - not very linear, you get some harshness in the high-mids when you push the volume
 - to sum up, I've always struggled to find the "right" volume with the stock unit. You push up the volume because you want more dynamics / engagement, and after several minutes you lower it because it sounds harsh and oddly compressed
  
 Stock SRM-727 is perfect for those looking for extra warmth at low volume listening. You'll lose this loudness / romantic presentation with the mod, but you're much closer to wire with gain.
  
 2 cents.

 Ali


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## zolkis

martyn73 said:


> Thanks, how does the Nezzar amp compare with Stax amps?


 
  
 Very well. IMHO it sounds smoother and more musical than the 007t II. In my books that beats all stock Stax amps.
 But that is only one opinion, and I haven't seen others on this forum. The same amp was favorably reviewed by a local famous and very picky reviewer, but I haven't seen other reviews.
  
 Anyway the sound was very good, and it drives the 007 fine -- of course, probably less volume than the Carbon, but dynamic range is fine as I tested with various classical and jazz recordings. A lot of options are also negotiable with the designer (input switcher, balance, etc). The Nezzar is my highest recommendation for the L700, but works well with the 007 and 009 as well. For the price it's unbeatable, but the high end Stax mafia amps probably have more dynamic headroom. If it matters to you. The dynamic range of a concert is very big, so in principle the higher the useful dynamic range, the better. Yet very, very few people listen to high dynamic range musical content, most of contemporary music and regular instruments have way less dynamics and are well covered. Myself I am listening to high dynamics concerts at a pretty low volumes, and normal music at moderate volumes. I have used the Nezzar volume control around 12pm (middle) position during testing and didn't have any problems with dynamic headroom - that is only to gauge my evaluation of the Nezzar.


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## astrostar59

ali-pacha said:


> I own a 727 (+lots of different Staxens) and had the mod done few months ago.
> 
> Stock 727 is not a bad amp since it has a lot of power, but it does have some weaknesses :
> - bass is a bit bloated. Pleasing on some genre, because it brings some meat around the bone and fights e-stat trend to sound ethereal, but not very tight / precise
> ...


 

 I agree 100% with this. There is a well documented report on the 717 v 727 and how to do the mod. IMO though, the 717 or the 727 even with the mod is still well behind the KGSShv or any other of the KG designs. I listen fairly loud and like a dynamic and realistic presentation i.e. wide soundstage and uncompressed dynamics. It is what the 007 and 009 are create at. But to get that magic you have to drive them with a great amp. Even though the b009 is more efficient it still sounds too bright and edgy out of the 007t or 727 to me, and quite a bit flatter and 2D.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

astrostar59 said:


> I agree 100% with this. There is a well documented report on the 717 v 727 and how to do the mod. IMO though, the 717 or the 727 even with the mod is still well behind the KGSShv or any other of the KG designs. I listen fairly loud and like a dynamic and realistic presentation i.e. wide soundstage and uncompressed dynamics. It is what the 007 and 009 are create at. But to get that magic you have to drive them with a great amp. Even though the b009 is more efficient it still sounds too bright and edgy out of the 007t or 727 to me, and quite a bit flatter and 2D.


 
 There are technical insights from KG, such as current sources on 727/KGSSHV vs. resistors on 717/KGSS. And of course unregulated PSU. Measurements from my SRM-727 showed bias and Vmax RMS slightly above specs (600 V / 500 V vs. 580 V / 450 V), guess because of that. But I don't know personnaly where 717/727 modded sit against KGSS(HV) because I've never had a listen to the latters.
  
 Anyway, final payment for my BHSE 2 months ago, it should be here soon...by Justin's standards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So I don't care about those lesser amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ali


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## Quixote79

astrostar59 said:


> I agree 100% with this. There is a well documented report on the 717 v 727 and how to do the mod. IMO though, the 717 or the 727 even with the mod is still well behind the KGSShv or any other of the KG designs. I listen fairly loud and like a dynamic and realistic presentation i.e. wide soundstage and uncompressed dynamics. It is what the 007 and 009 are create at. But to get that magic you have to drive them with a great amp. Even though the b009 is more efficient it still sounds too bright and edgy out of the 007t or 727 to me, and quite a bit flatter and 2D.


 
  
 Totally agree.
 I would try and find a used 717, as that will sound better, in fact give you a taste of what a better amp will sound like. The 717 is the bast sounding Stax amp bar the T2 IMO.
 The 323/727 IMO are not good. I would also say using a step up transformer will have even more negative effects on the sound.


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## oogabooga

quixote79 said:


> Totally agree.
> I would try and find a used 717, as that will sound better, in fact give you a taste of what a better amp will sound like. The 717 is the bast sounding Stax amp bar the T2 IMO.
> The 323/727 IMO are not good. I would also say using a step up transformer will have even more negative effects on the sound.


 
  
 I use the 323 with my SR-007 and would disagree with the statement that it's "not good". I find the sound quite enjoyable. I'm not saying there aren't *better* options, mind you.


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## astrostar59

ali-pacha said:


> Anyway, final payment for my BHSE 2 months ago, it should be here soon...by Justin's standards
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 IMO having heard the BHSE against my KGSSHv they are not far apart. I could be happy with either. The KGSShv (Sanyo) is warmer than the BHSE which helps with the 009s and kicks harder in the bass. The BHSE has the magic midrange of tubes. Choose your poison....
  
 Personally i have lost patience with power amps and tubes as I had some problems and I don't like the yearly cost of NOS tubes which are required to get the best out of the BHSE. It sounds too bright with the stock Mullards. I can't justify £600 a year TBH, would rather buy more music with that.


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## zolkis

astrostar59 said:


> Personally i have lost patience with power amps and tubes as I had some problems and I don't like the yearly cost of NOS tubes which are required to get the best out of the BHSE. It sounds too bright with the stock Mullards. I can't justify £600 a year TBH, would rather buy more music with that.


 
  
 OT. I had that issue with my cj power amp too (consuming an octet of tubes every few years), got fed up and tried a large number of vintage and modern and experimental SS amps, but I realized I am a tube guy. Modern SiC, GaN and GaAs transistors get closer, but still IMHO one can _more easily_ make good sound with tubes (ask Spritzer how many hours has he put in fine-tuning the Carbon). OK, the Carbon is ready and everyone says it's good, so feel free to go for it, but I'd just like to say that I don't have that tube wear-off issue any more with the auto-biasing PrimaLuna, nor with my other (modern) tube amps. After a few years of trying various tube makes, I ended up using Valve Art tubes nowadays, they sound good and last long. They are doing something right on their production line.
  
 I didn't say this to deflect anyone from SS amps, but just to provide a complementary view .


----------



## martin778

Can someone check the build date of my 006TS and SR-407 based on SN?


----------



## oogabooga

I think the oldest SRM-006t had one NORMAL bias port, if that's of any help to you.


----------



## martin778

It's not the T or the TII but the tS which was introduced with the SRS-4170 package from around 2011.


----------



## alpinemart

Has anyone tried the Stax SRM-353X with the SR-007II? I wonder if Stax has improved the SRM-353X in comparison with the SRM-323S, but the power appears to be similar.
  
 I've owned a SRM-727II previously and it didn't pair well with the SR-404; the treble was exceptionally harsh despite using EQ and the overall sound quality was analytical rather than enjoyable. However, lesser amps are apparently not suitable for the SR-007II and, unfortunately, I can't afford a BHSE, KGSShv or similar third party amp. Any advice most welcome!


----------



## Pokemonn

alpinemart said:


> Has anyone tried the Stax SRM-353X with the SR-007II? I wonder if Stax has improved the SRM-353X in comparison with the SRM-323S, but the power appears to be similar.
> 
> I've owned a SRM-727II previously and it didn't pair well with the SR-404; the treble was exceptionally harsh despite using EQ and the overall sound quality was analytical rather than enjoyable. However, lesser amps are apparently not suitable for the SR-007II and, unfortunately, I can't afford a BHSE, KGSShv or similar third party amp. Any advice most welcome!


 

 for me 727 tend to sound harsh, i recommend to audition used stax tube amps. they sound warmer and smoother and enjoyable. and you need to use EQ in treble too.
 but in term of resolution, stax tube amps are not good IMO.


----------



## goobicii

I saw on one forum I rather not mention that some dude put these pads https://www.amazon.ca/Brainwavz-Replacement-Hybrid-Memory-Earpad/dp/B00ZGGG3KY/185-4029103-2290361?ie=UTF8&tag=vglnk-ca-c584-20 on his Stax SR-007 Mk 2.5 (SZ3)  and it completly flatened out the U shaped freqency response....
  
 if you look at innerfidelity measurements,tyll measured about 4 009s and 2 007s and they all have this little weird U shaped freqency response,its only little bit,its pretty subtle,I know 007 and 009 probably arent first things when you think U freqency response,fostex TH900 and Abyss are U shaped much more,but still,the stax have it.Its like small midbass hump and louder upper mids.
  
 after using these new pads the freqency response seems so much better! its now flat from 1000hz all the way to 60hz and then very gently rolls off,it also boost the hole in lower treble on 007...... this just looks fantastic! I think tonality is biggest complain about stax 007 and 009,this fills up the midrange and fixes the bass hump and on 007 fills the treble hole,did anybody tried it?


----------



## zolkis

I have only tried the Brainwavz leather pads (flat, 30 mm high, 110x90 mm outer and 70x50 mm inner diameters).
 Warning: they are oval, and the shorter diameter is too small, so makes it a very tight fit on the 007, kind of heavily stretched.
  
 It does sound slightly better on the 007 than the black Stax EP-007 pads. However, on other headphones (such as the TH900), the Stax pads sound better.
  
 But on the 007 the 009 pads sound still better, and my modded 009 pads sound much better.
  
 Measurements are not giving things justice, since they are usable up to a few kHz, at least with the rig generally used by hobbyists (miniDSP UMIK-1 + REW + DIY coupler); nevertheless when used comparatively, they give an idea.
  

  
 As seen above, the Brainwavz leather pads have less midrange dip than stock 007 pads.
 When compared to my modded 009 pads, the difference in sound is bigger than in measurements (especially in bass where the 009 pads are much better sounding than comparative measurements would tell):
  

  
 A few notes:
 - The bass drop below 50 Hz in form of a step is a coupler thing, not noticed on my head when doing a frequency sweep: using slightly bigger pressure of the pads on the coupler make it flat, but since that is hard to control, I stay with the step.
 - The treble raggedness is mainly coming from measurement setup limitations. It gives an idea, and more or less matches with my subjective evaluation, but take it with some reservations.
 - The impulse response is slightly better with the modded 009 pads than with the Brainwavz, which is slightly better than the stock 007 pads.
 - Distortions are almost the same, the 009 pads have slightly less distortions on odd harmonics than the others, but compensate with more on even harmonics, so while the THD is nearly the same, the 009 pads will sound slightly fuller and more musical.
  
 I have asked Brainwavz whether they would make pads on my specifications (slightly angled shallow pads, slightly bigger horizontal diameters than the HM5 pads), but they don't. Of course these are replacement pads on their own headphones, and they don't want to make money on pads alone.
  
 Since the HM5 pads were not really good on the TH900 either (see this post), probably I am going to modify them myself, rather than throwing them out or selling.


----------



## zolkis

OK, I checked the "other" thread as well, and it made me think to try the hybrid version of the Brainwavz pads as well - that is the angled version. But I am skeptical about it being better than the 009 pads, which are perfect, and Stax has given up the 007 pads system for good reasons. But if one cannot get or doesn't want to pay for the 009 pads, these Brainwavz pads are cheap and very good quality. Now you have measurements about 2 versions (flat leather version here, and angled hybrid version on the "other" thread).


----------



## lilbthebasedgod

So have we ever figured out the thickness of the SR-009 driver?


----------



## Drumonron

soren_brix said:


> ...so not happy about the 007's?


 

 No, I absolutely love the 007s and the 009s....but I love my HD800s, RS-1s, HD600 and HD700s, etc (see my profile for all my babies).
  
 Truth be told, the SR007s were loved so much by me that I thought...my God - what's the SR009s like!
  
 Listen, I think the Stax earspeakers are such elegant pieces that effortlessly and elegantly output music, that you have to explore that.
 Regrets? No - the dividends continue to be paid over and over.


----------



## zolkis

lilbthebasedgod said:


> So have we ever figured out the thickness of the SR-009 driver?


 
  
 Driver, or membrane?
 The membrane is said to be under 2 microns thick (like with the 007 and other Stax headphones), but apparently it's a new type of material, not mylar.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/stax-sr-009-electrostatic-earspeaker-playback-54/
  
 The HE1000 uses sub-micron thickness of membrane material.
 Sennheiser said they looked into this and optimum thickness is about 2.4 microns, that they are using in the new Orpheus.
  
 In fact it doesn't really matter without knowing the material, the elastic modulus and other things. What matters is summarized below.
  
 Check this post (and thread):
http://www.head-fi.org/t/555908/stax-sr-009-channel-imbalance-trouble-driver-problem/60#post_7517321


chinsettawong said:


> The tension of the diaphragm affects directly with its resonant frequencies (RF).  The higher the tension, the higher the RF.  Mylar is a typical material for making diaphragms.  In order to get the same tension every time, you need to make a mechanical stretcher.  You stretch the Mylar to your desired tension, then you glue it to the spacer.
> 
> The normal and safe diaphragm width to spacer thickness is around 100:1.  For anything beyond that, you can either increase your tension or reduce the bias voltage.  That will again affect the RF.  It will take a lot of trials and errors to get everything just right.
> 
> ...


 
  
 and this one:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/555908/stax-sr-009-channel-imbalance-trouble-driver-problem/60#post_7518345


spritzer said:


> Since the diaphragms are using a new type of plastic (which we don't know what is) then that could be the issue.  I do doubt it though since nobody as experienced as Stax would mess up diaphragm tension or choose a material which isn't fix and forget like mylar.  You have to remember that once mylar is tensioned and heat treated then it will remain in that position for at least 50 years.  Why 50 years?  That's how old my still 100% functional SR-1 is and being the first electrostatic headphone, our best point of reference.
> 
> For an electrostatic transducer to be linear and have vanishingly low distortion then the diaphragm has to be ruler flat and very tight.  The Stax units certainly are, you can make them "sing" simply by lightly blowing air on them.  Given how weak the electrostatic force is then it simply isn't possible for it to stretch or dislodge the film in any way.
> 
> The max SPL limit of any electrostatic driver is set by the inherent voltage limits of the drivers and not excursion.  The voltage limit is normally around double the bias voltage which means the driver will start to burn up once it is surpassed.  Now with most of the Stax amps this isn't a problem since 1200V P-P is a lot of voltage and more than they could ever output.  Only a handful of the DIY amps can output at these levels so damaging the drivers isn't very likely.  Now with the normal bias sets it was a very different story and Stax did try a lot of different things to stop people from burning up the diaphragms.  Sadly none of them really worked...


----------



## edstrelow

I pulled this off a 6-moons review
 ​ "I The new SR-404 Signature utilizes a new diaphragm only 1.35 microns thick as compared to the 2 microns of my former Lambda Pros and the 1.5 microns of the Lambda Nova Signature. "     http://6moons.com/audioreviews/stax2/stax.html
 ​ However I am not sure it's accurate.  I am sure I have read that the SNL is 1 micron  but my googling is not pulling this information  up.


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## arnaud

I'd be curious to hear what knowing the actual thickness of the SR009 diaphragm brings to the table, considering the fact nobody knows what material is actually used 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 A driver is so many more parameters than just the diaphragm thickness, I am not really sure what one thinks can be inferred from knowing this actual property.
  
 arnaud


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## edstrelow

arnaud said:


> I'd be curious to hear what knowing the actual thickness of the SR009 diaphragm brings to the table, considering the fact nobody knows what material is actually used
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 All other  things being equal it would be a factor.


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## arnaud

In what way does the diaphragm thickness affect the sound in your experience?
Arnaud


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## richard51

thickness of the 007 : 1 .35 micron
  
 https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.inexxon.com%2Fstax-modelle%2Fstax-kopfh%25C3%25B6rer%2Fsr-007-mk2%2F&edit-text=&act=url
  
 thickness of the 009 : probably   around  1 micron  micron 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.inexxon.com%2Fstax-modelle%2Fstax-kopfh%25C3%25B6rer%2Fsr-009%2F&edit-text=&act=url


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## edstrelow

arnaud said:


> In what way does the diaphragm thickness affect the sound in your experience?
> Arnaud


 
  
 I think you are mixing up  two different aspects of evaluation,  the evaluation of a physical principle versus the subjective evaluation of a complete product.   
  
 As  regards the physics, the less mass there is to move, the more responsive a diaphragm will be.  Surely that is  a given. The ultimate transducer would be the ionophone, which  as I understand it uses a plasma to generate sound.
  
 As regards my experience of thick vs thin diaphragms, I would  say that I feel that my older Stax models, eg. SR5, SRXIII pro, and low bias Sigma have  in common the fact of thicker diaphragms than say the SR007 and also have in common a lack of detail compared to the SR007. 
  I have seen but never heard an ionophone speaker so I don't have any relevant experience.  
  
 Do I think this is the final say about this issue?  No because there are so many other factors which differentiate on phone from another that it may be wrong to attribute any particular sound quality to one factor alone.  One could of course make a direct comparison of identical phones with diaphragms of different thickness but no-one here is in the position to do that. 
  
 I did a comparison like this in the damping thread by comparing different damping materials just by swapping  covers with different damping materials on my SRXIII pro, but that type of experimental manipulation is rare.


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## lilbthebasedgod

Yeah, I'm not saying that the thickness is a huge deal, or the primary reason why an electrostat will sound good or bad, I'm just wondering what exactly is in the 009.  It seems that noone really knows what the new material is and if its better and how thick the diaphragm is.  They seemed to be more transparent in this regard before.


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## zolkis

edstrelow said:


> I have seen but never heard an ionophone speaker so I don't have any relevant experience.


 
  
 I have heard the plasma/ionic tweeters in Acapella Violin speakers, and I didn't really like them that much as I expected, compared to everyone else seemingly being blown away by them. Surely, the extension, the dynamics was there, but it felt a bit shouty "capacitor-sound" like a hearing aid in normal ears, kind of "too much air", and it's very hard to blend them nicely. There too, it's not enough to have a good principle, the devil is in the details. Perhaps it was the midrange horn blowing it too far, or the tweeters' separate blending controls were set up for people with a hearing loss in the treble, I don't know. I tried to play with them, but didn't manage to find a good setting.
  
 Dome tweeters can be nice, with a good polar pattern, but often they lack on dynamics. The famous Scan-Speak Revelator didn't cut it for me until the dome was rebuilt for me by a specialist, with new coatings. Some makers use double tweeters, with good results, but I like more small paper cone dynamic tweeters, albeit they tend to be more directed. It's bearable, good speakers are often like big headphones... (someone said the Dunlavy SC-VI are the world's biggest headphones).
  
 As far as treble goes, IMHO nothing gets even reminiscently close to real instruments (especially concerning the dynamic range, and the cleanness and clarity of the harmonic structure) -- of course that also applies to other frequencies, but treble is a beast, especially with such a wide range of tolerance by human hearing. Some get irritated easily, others are more tolerant, but humans in general don't tolerate well bad treble.
  
 In headphones, treble is usually bad. They get some aspects right, but it's very hard to make a full-range transducer right so near to the ears in a closed volume. The 009 treble is borderline compromise between extension, smoothness and dynamics; the (modded) 007 has more body and dynamics on the treble but the extension falls off quicker above 10 kHz, resulting in less "air", but also less tendency to break some people's brightness comfort zone (I am fine with the 009). Now it is the relative excess of that "air" that bothered me with the Acapella plasma tweeter. The more important question is to what our brain can adapt better, while preserving the important features of the tonal and dynamic range.


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## goobicii

plasma is awesome,problem is the crossover degrades sound,its crossed over very high so the woofer under it is practicaly interfering with the whole range dedicated to that plasma tweeter.Ad to that dac coloring the sound and even the electronics that make the plasma,the room reflections and I am not surprised your experience with plasma was not so good.


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## goobicii

correct me if I am wrong but is graphene currently theoreticaly the best material for electrostatic headphones? its only one carbon atom thick,have incredible strenght vs weight ratio and is good conductor


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## listen4joy

well, altough i dont hold stax i excited to hear about this new nanotube carboon amp, is it going to relaese this year? is it will be DIY or someone will sell it? is it iwill bring the 009 to new levels after T2 and BHSE?


----------



## Michgelsen

goobicii said:


> correct me if I am wrong but is graphene currently theoreticaly the best material for electrostatic headphones? its only one carbon atom thick,have incredible strenght vs weight ratio and is good conductor


 
  
 As electrostatic headphones are manufactured today, the diaphragm needs to be a good *insulator*, over which a conducting layer is then applied, to form what is essentially a capacitor.


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## soren_brix

michgelsen said:


> As electrostatic headphones are manufactured today, the diaphragm needs to be a good *insulator ...*


 
 Why?


----------



## jcx

"constant charge" operation gives the least distortion - to achieve that you want the diaphragm to have a ridiculously high resistance but not be perfectly insulating
  
 if the film is lower resistance the charge on the diaphragm can move to the closest point to the stator as the film stretches, giving an extra force term that depends on the signal == distortion
  
 good diaphragm plastic films are near perfect insulators as commonly supplied so using what can be easily bought and surface treating it to reach the desired resistance is the economical approach
  
 some have speculated that "the best" would be to incorporate just the right amount of "structured carbon" particles in the bulk plastic before forming the film - but there's just not enough demand when even "experimental" batch reactors/mixers for the bulk plastic would make enough film for millions of headphones - and it may take a few tries to hit the exact combo for the final film resistance properties
  
  
 with a highly conductive diaphragm it may be possible to predistort the drive V in the amplifier to cancel the moving charge nonlinearity - but its a tough problem open loop, the predistortion parameters likely need to match closer than many headphone drivers are ever made to in serial production in the 1st place - manufacturers brag about better than 1 dB R,L driver matching - and do that by sorting
  
 motion feedback adds a lot of complexity too if it could be done at headphone size


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## rgs9200m

zolkis said:


> I have heard the plasma/ionic tweeters in Acapella Violin speakers, and I didn't really like them that much as I expected, compared to everyone else seemingly being blown away by them.


 
 Yeah, a few years back I heard those plasma tweeters and I was disappointed (a little tizzy as I recall). Somehow the best tweeter highs in speaker I heard were in Von Schweikert and Dynaudio speakers, especially the big floorstanding ones.
 Ribbons are OK, but sometimes the highs in speakers with ribbon tweeters but with conventional drivers for the mids and bass seem to sound like they have a different tonality from the rest of the spectrum, like they don't fit just right.
  
 I really like the highs in my SR007 (current version) and my Senn HD650. They are Goldilocks highs and make the whole presentation sound "of a piece" and everything speaks with one voice and nothing stands out artificially.
 It's weird that I find myself a fan of these 2 phones and they are sort of favorites overall even though I have heard or owned lots of others, including flagships like the 009 and HD800 and the R10s.
  
 Maybe it's because I have owned various SR007s and HD650/600s for over 15 years and they have stood the test of time and I am very used to them and I can't find anything that I can say is absolutely better overall or more musical in every way personally.
 (KGSShv mini and Pinnacle amps here.)


----------



## zolkis

rgs9200m said:


> I really like the highs in my SR007 (current version) and my Senn HD650. They are Goldilocks highs and make the whole presentation sound "of a piece" and everything speaks with one voice and nothing stands out artificially.


 
  
 That! I hear it the same way. Personally I'd include the 009 as well with right amps, especially since it does many things better than the 007 (more neutral to start with, and midrange is more prominent and more linear, resulting in e.g. more faithful piano tonality). The HE1000 would have been also very nice if it had "one voice" over the audio spectrum and wasn't too soft on the attack.
 BTW in the HiFi+ guide to headphones I have read today there was an interview with Fang and he said they are working very hard on improving the HE1000.
  
 I wonder what Stax is cooking for the successor of the 009, I have the feeling it will be voiced midway between the 007 and 009, but this is pure speculation, and I guess we need to wait a few years for that anyway (allowing time to keep saving money for it .


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## edstrelow

zolkis said:


> As far as treble goes, IMHO nothing gets even reminiscently close to real instruments (especially concerning the dynamic range, and the cleanness and clarity of the harmonic structure) -- of course that also applies to other frequencies, but treble is a beast, especially with such a wide range of tolerance by human hearing. Some get irritated easily, others are more tolerant, but humans in general don't tolerate well bad treble.
> 
> In headphones, treble is usually bad. They get some aspects right, but it's very hard to make a full-range transducer right so near to the ears in a closed volume. The 009 treble is borderline compromise between extension, smoothness and dynamics; the (modded) 007 has more body and dynamics on the treble but the extension falls off quicker above 10 kHz, resulting in less "air", but also less tendency to break some people's brightness comfort zone (I am fine with the 009). Now it is the relative excess of that "air" that bothered me with the Acapella plasma tweeter. The more important question is to what our brain can adapt better, while preserving the important features of the tonal and dynamic range.


 
  I agree with most of this.   It seemed that when I got into electrostatics headphones and speakers , many years ago the edginess of treble was an issue.  Over the years, I seemed to have been able to tame this beast, and I should add that sorbothane damping has been very effective here.  On the other hand I am also aware that men, in particular, have diminished  high frequency hearing.   It shocked me  a few months ago when I realized that I could no longer hear a 16kHz signal.  That is not unusual.
  
   http://www.roger-russell.com/hearing/hearing.htm#age
  
 My wife and kids have always been less enthused about my audio adventures, and I suspect this is partly due to them not liking the treble of many of the phones. I also recall being given a pair of one of the higher end Grados to plug into my display at Canjam in Orange County California and finding them awfully screechy. Yet the guy who gave them to me to listen seemed to think they were something special.  I suspected that he had a serious hearing loss. 
  
 Probably no-one should be allowed to comment about high frequency performance without a recent audiogram on file with this site.


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## rgs9200m

Thanks for that Zolkis. Very insightful comments on your part also.


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## Tinkerer

listen4joy said:


> well, altough i dont hold stax i excited to hear about this new nanotube carboon amp, is it going to relaese this year? is it will be DIY or someone will sell it? is it iwill bring the 009 to new levels after T2 and BHSE?


 
  
 Initial design was released late last year. So far DIY only unless someone decides to build a couple and sell. The prototype is supposed to sound amazing, but nobody else has finished one from the first board run yet that I know of.


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## astrostar59

Curious, anyone here tried the LCD3/4 with a decent amp against an 009 rig? I am wondering how close they are in fact. I have read the LCD models are warmer and have superior bass response. I wonder how they are in other regards i.e speed, detail, soundstage etc?
  
 The obvious advantage to me of the Planars is the ability to run them off a conventional amplifier.


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## goobicii

friend want to buy budget Stax and I am not sure what to recommend to him... the srs 2170 which is SR 207 + SRM 252s  or srs 3170,SR 307 + 323s amp
  
 looking at innerfidelity the 207 measures amazing for the price,problem is you cant buy the headphone alone,it only comes with that little 252s amp and I have feeling that while 207 out of something like KGSShv might be really good,that petite amp would hold it back
  
 it have only 250v RMS
  
 so tell,me,252,vs 323s,how much better it is? should he buy 2170 or is 3170 just so much better? he listen dubstep and stuff like that,big transient peaks,alot bass,loud... I just dont feel confident in 252s,didnt heard it,it might be case of "dont judge book by its cover" sort of thing


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## astrostar59

goobicii said:


> friend want to buy budget Stax and I am not sure what to recommend to him... the srs 2170 which is SR 207 + SRM 252s  or srs 3170,SR 307 + 323s amp


 

 Where is your friend based? I use a great UK Stax dealer called Cheshire Audio who trades back in Stax gear and has a good stock of mint headphones and amps. t would get your friend a decent system for 50% of new. He has a lot of 507s right now for example.


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## goobicii

astrostar59 said:


> Where is your friend based? I use a great UK Stax dealer called Cheshire Audio who trades back in Stax gear and has a good stock of mint headphones and amps. t would get your friend a decent system for 50% of new. He has a lot of 507s right now for example.


 
 Slovakia,really? thats awesome! I was checking prices here in EU and they are like twice whats in japan,atleast the german ones.


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## Spirulina780

goobicii said:


> friend want to buy budget Stax and I am not sure what to recommend to him... the srs 2170 which is SR 207 + SRM 252s  or srs 3170,SR 307 + 323s amp
> 
> looking at innerfidelity the 207 measures amazing for the price,problem is you cant buy the headphone alone,it only comes with that faggy little 252s amp and I have feeling that while 207 out of something like KGSShv might be really good,that petite amp would hold it back
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is the thread for the Stax "entry level": http://www.head-fi.org/t/676272/the-entry-level-stax-thread
 They talk a lot about the 2170 system in that thread. If you buy from japan, there is no headphone in that price range that comes close to the same quality, but if you want to play really loud with bass thumping in your spine, you should probably look elsewhere


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## zolkis

The 207+252s is safe, especially if you replace the wall wart power supply with a better one.


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## HemiSam

2170 system punches above its weight based on the input I've received from trusted sources here and on the site that shall remain unnamed...
  
  

  
 HS


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## sensui123

astrostar59 said:


> Curious, anyone here tried the LCD3/4 with a decent amp against an 009 rig? I am wondering how close they are in fact. I have read the LCD models are warmer and have superior bass response. I wonder how they are in other regards i.e speed, detail, soundstage etc?
> 
> The obvious advantage to me of the Planars is the ability to run them off a conventional amplifier.


 
  
 I listen to the SR-009 with the KGSSHV Carbon from Spritzer right now (waiting on the BHSE still)....I've also owned Audeze lcd-2/3/Xc/X and after selling them all...the 4 now also.  Currently listening to the LCD-4 with the GS-X mk2......I do think they are TOTL material on the dynamic/orthodynamic side of things as the improvements are obvious from previous iterations....but I would really listen to Jazz and some ballads with the LCD-4 over the SR-009.  The aspects you talked about (stage, detail, speed) the SR-009 wins by a good margin in my listening but the LCD-4 retains that sweet mid/punchy bass Audeze is known for.  Overall, I'd stick with the SR-009 if you have it properly amp'ed/sourced.....really blown away by the STAX right now coming from a lot of TOTL dynamic stuff.


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## Rhamnetin

sensui123 said:


> I listen to the SR-009 with the KGSSHV Carbon from Spritzer right now (waiting on the BHSE still)....I've also owned Audeze lcd-2/3/Xc/X and after selling them all...the 4 now also.  Currently listening to the LCD-4 with the GS-X mk2......I do think they are TOTL material on the dynamic/orthodynamic side of things as the improvements are obvious from previous iterations....but I would really listen to Jazz and some ballads with the LCD-4 over the SR-009.  The aspects you talked about (stage, detail, speed) the SR-009 wins by a good margin in my listening but the LCD-4 retains that sweet mid/punchy bass Audeze is known for.  Overall, I'd stick with the SR-009 if you have it properly amp'ed/sourced.....really blown away by the STAX right now coming from a lot of TOTL dynamic stuff.


 
  
 I've listened to the LCD-3F + GS-X Mk2 and SR-009 + BHSE side by side and I very much agree with this conclusion.  The SR-009 technically superior (much more transparent, more detailed, more open/airy, better sound stage and imaging, more neutral and more natural/technically correct to my ears) but the LCD-3F sounds unique in comparison with a lush mid range and somewhat bassier sound.


----------



## zolkis

I don't know about the LCD-4 (yet), but for me the LCD-3F was less preferred than almost any decent Stax headphone (e.g. L700, 007, 009) with a reasonable amplifier, mainly because the narrower stage and the more closed-in sound, despite the buttery smooth and meaty midrange/bass. Also, I have preferred the HE-6 and HE-1000 to the Audeze LCD-3F. It's personal thing I guess.


----------



## astrostar59

I have spent some time the last few weeks reading away from this forum. What!! Yes there is a world outside head-fi. But seriously, so many non stat forums have a go about Stax gear. It is the same story, too much detail, plastic, unnatural. I disagree of course. IMO they can't handle or are not used to being hard wired to the music. The transient response and low mass of the drivers makes music so fast and detailed. 
  
 Why is this? I will try in my own pathetic way here to explain (IMO).
  
 What has most folk grown up with as regards their awareness of music and how it should sound?
  

  
*1. The radio and amplifiers*
 Well it was nice when we had those big and warm sounding radio gram monsters in the lounge. Anyone lucky enough to have parents with a Harman Kardon Citation 1? Then things went south somewhat with the '12 transistor' radios as such like. And don't forget the radio stations compressed everything down to 25 DB dynamic range.
  
*2. The speaker*
 Well, what was available when I was young and that my parents could afford? Not much, mainly 2 box infinite baffle types. If you were lucky the odd Snell thrown in or a BBC monitor. These were the 'go to' speaker if you were serious back then.
  

  
 And these were more often than not fed by a very average turntable made by Sansui or something and 70's thin (poor) quality vinyl pressings. Things have moved on, but at a certain level speakers (in the main) still sound too cold and detail driven to me and have no heart. Unless you go a bit more crazy on the budget.
  

  

  
 There are some great speaker system out there. I have heard the B&W Nautilus and it was impressive and 3D like. There is also the healthy revival of high end horn designs. But I still prefer the sound of my 009s. Maybe I am accustomed to that and it my 'safe' zone. Regardless I get so much enjoyment from it, and of course, it doesn't mean the neighbours are breaking my door in!
  
*3. The recordings*
 In a studio the mixing desk will typically have mid sized studio monitors like these:
  

  
 They are usually slightly over detailed so the mixing engineer can hear everything. They then have a low end single box speaker to check how it sounds from a portable radio (though less relevant with iPhones and IEMs). There may be a larger speaker array that handle sub bass, but many studios tend to semi ignore that aspect. Only the club mix recording I used to get when I was a DJ was it obvious they had spent some time with a sub bass mix, as you will have heard on modern club mix dance tracks.
  
 So we are actually listening to a better and more frequency wide faster speaker system than most mixing desks will have. I think this aspect has meant we can hear the micro detail stuff so well, fake record scratch samples in dance music, mixing mistakes and noise, background noises, you name it we can hear it! It may sound different to the artists impression in that studio as well. Does it matter? Maybe. Does it get us closer to the music, the artist, hell yes IMO.
  
 It takes a while to get your brain to 'accept' these aspects, the low level information that is more obvious. It is accurate or 'normal'?. Once you do accept that you are a Stax believer. Those that don't may stay with Planars or conventional speaker headphones. Dare I say it - behind the fog of conventional drivers. Maybe it is a step to far for some.
  
*4. Live Music*
 We hear from the many that the Stat sound -  'it doesn't sound like live music'. But I have been to classical concerts that sound screechy, too quite, too loud, too brassy, too soft, or just nice and natural. It depends on the acoustics in the venue, where you are stood, how many people in front of you (absorbent mass). Back in the 70's live music often sounded terrible. The mixing all over the shop, speakers not up to it, really really poor. It was often the experience of being there that made it worth it.
  

  

  
 More recently I have been to see Kraftwerk which sounded fantastic and Leftfield that made my ears bleed, well, I couldn't hear anything much for 3 days after. The bass was so strong it nearly made me levitate. So what is 'live' sound? There are many.
  
*Stax systems*
 Back to Stax systems, of course, all this extra information and insight comes at a price, as in many things in life. In this case more is more, not less is more. And it is worth the price IMO. No headphone system or even speaker system is good at everything, but to me Stats get closer in all the areas I care about. Yeah, some say we don't have that killer bass, I disagree. It is killer bass, just different bass. It is textured and detailed bass, not thumping one note head-ache and fatigue inducing bass. If I wanted that I would be driving around in a Kev'ed up motor scaring the neighbours.
  
 All this detail makes it doubly important to get the right DAC and system balance, the right source adjustments if using PC audio. The constant 'it is too bright' or 'how do I tone down the brightness'. It is IMO down to the source and amp to do that, or at least remove that problem in that source so it doesn't get realised in the detailed headphone system, not mask it with a duller sounding driver at the other end.
  
 I will shut up now. Hope you enjoyed my little report.


----------



## lilbthebasedgod

There's really no such thing as fast bass response.  Sure, you can say distorted bass response, and stax do that well, but bass is inherently slow.
  
 If you ever look at a CSD for a headphone, they never show the bass because its pointless.  A 50hz tone will stay for at least 1/50 of a second.  A 20hz for 1/20 of a second, etc.  Those are going to be well longer than the decay speed of a driver.
  
 If you send a pulse that's designed to be 20hz but cut off after 1/30 of a second to a signal analyzer, you will see its just a pulse that contains all frequencies, not a 20hz tone.
  
 Stax have relatively undistorted bass compared to dynamic headphones, but people say the HD800 has similar bass and its' way more distorted.  
  
 I fully maintain that "fast, accurate bass" is just a meme and is mostly just shelved bass response.  Which I'm fine with I guess, because I like stax headphones.


----------



## paulchiu

lilbthebasedgod said:


> There's really no such thing as fast bass response.  Sure, you can say distorted bass response, and stax do that well, but bass is inherently slow.
> 
> If you ever look at a CSD for a headphone, they never show the bass because its pointless.  A 50hz tone will stay for at least 1/50 of a second.  A 20hz for 1/20 of a second, etc.  Those are going to be well longer than the decay speed of a driver.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree bass from the top Stax is lacking but it can get high-end with the proper amping.  Adding the Nagra HD DAC to my Stax 007tii helped with the bass and the Mal Valve Head Amp Three MK3 does it by itself.
 I never did go to BHSE for the bass with 009, it was not the tool I choose for bass heavy music.
 Better solution with other conventional headphones but with the above amps and DACs, the bass from a 009/007 can almost match the top magnetics.
  
 Paul


----------



## lilbthebasedgod

I generally think stax are slightly below the best bass.
  
 If you look at the 009
 http://cdn.head-fi.org/8/8d/8d765f27_STAX_SR-009SNSZ92251_Frequency_Response_HRTF.png

 The sub bass is a little bit too low, the 6k-10k is a bit concerning, and the 1-2k is a bit low.  Generally showing that mids would be a bit emphasized.  

 But its really not far below.  As you see with the black line, people just prefer raised bass instead of neutral bass.  

 If you need an amp to color the signal, its probably distorting the signal and I just always feel that would be very dirty to do to a headphone that's known for being super clean.  I never have tried doing that.


----------



## mulveling

lilbthebasedgod said:


> There's really no such thing as fast bass response.  Sure, you can say distorted bass response, and stax do that well, but bass is inherently slow.
> 
> If you ever look at a CSD for a headphone, they never show the bass because its pointless.  A 50hz tone will stay for at least 1/50 of a second.  A 20hz for 1/20 of a second, etc.  Those are going to be well longer than the decay speed of a driver.
> 
> ...


 
 In a literal sense, sure it's silly to say a transducer's bass response is slow or fast. But by the same token, there is no literal/technical basis for calling a transducer cold vs. warm. Yet these are all perfectly reasonable ways for an enthusiast -- on a largely non-technical hi-end forum here -- to describe what they're hearing relative to other headphones, without spilling dozens/hundreds of extra words. There are other sites where we can peruse nothing but graphs & numbers.
  
 I too would call Stax 009 bass "fast and impactful". There are plenty of dynamic transducers that give you more overall heft down low, but always at some cost of distortion artifacts. What's particularly nice about the Stax is that (with proper amping) it achieves particularly satisfying and convincingly realistic levels of bass -- with virtually no distortion. It's really the best of both worlds, and only those who fall into bass-head territory will need to keep looking.


----------



## edstrelow

astrostar59 said:


> I have spent some time the last few weeks reading away from this forum. What!! Yes there is a world outside head-fi. But seriously, so many non stat forums have a go about Stax gear. It is the same story, too much detail, plastic, unnatural. I disagree of course. IMO they can't handle or are not used to being hard wired to the music. The transient response and low mass of the drivers makes music so fast and detailed.
> 
> Why is this? I will try in my own pathetic way here to explain (IMO).
> 
> ...




I generally agree with your take on the sound scene. However in recent times I have come to realize that there is another problem here and that is the mechanical vibration problems of most equipment, especially headphones. The drivers do not just blast energy into the air, they blast, according to Newtonian principles, equal and opposite energy into the earcups. If you dampen this energy, as I have been proposing for the last year or so using sorbothane, and you get a much improved sound with less edginess, better dynamics and localization.

This is not just an issue for crazy tweakers. We already know that Grado's new line of e-series phones are built with vibrational damping plastic. Sennheiser has been in this game at least since it developed the HD800, where it has acknowledged using damping materials in the headband. This fact was largely overlooked by even its fans, not helped by the sometimes obscure language of the Senn ads referring to space-age materials. And why in the headband? Because dear friends energy flows out from the earcups to the bands and can be damped there. I first noticed this with the Stax Sr007 and attributed it to the fact that unlike most phones, the band is tightly screwed to the earcups. However more recently we sorbers have found that even phones like the Lambdas can benefit from damping in their headbands.

Sennheiser has been making a big splash with their new electrostatic superphone. I would assume that they used the knowledge they gained from the HD800 to incorporate damping in these phones. If they didn't then they can be outperformed by phones like the 009 and 007 if effective damping is applied.


----------



## lilbthebasedgod

mulveling said:


> In a literal sense, sure it's silly to say a transducer's bass response is slow or fast. But by the same token, there is no literal/technical basis for calling a transducer cold vs. warm. Yet these are all perfectly reasonable ways for an enthusiast -- on a largely non-technical hi-end forum here -- to describe what they're hearing relative to other headphones, without spilling dozens/hundreds of extra words. There are other sites where we can peruse nothing but graphs & numbers.
> 
> I too would call Stax 009 bass "fast and impactful". There are plenty of dynamic transducers that give you more overall heft down low, but always at some cost of distortion artifacts. What's particularly nice about the Stax is that (with proper amping) it achieves particularly satisfying and convincingly realistic levels of bass -- with virtually no distortion. It's really the best of both worlds, and only those who fall into bass-head territory will need to keep looking.


 
 I understand.  I agree that the bass is fine on stax transducers.  I just don't think its any faster or slower in the bass.  Its just farily well positioned.  If the bass is distorted while high notes are going on at the same time, I assume the high notes will be more distorted than if they were played without bass.  Totally non scientific because I haven't tested this.
  
 I think the lack of distortion makes stax bass good in that sense.


----------



## astrostar59

lilbthebasedgod said:


> There's really no such thing as fast bass response.  Sure, you can say distorted bass response, and stax do that well, but bass is inherently slow.
> 
> If you ever look at a CSD for a headphone, they never show the bass because its pointless.  A 50hz tone will stay for at least 1/50 of a second.  A 20hz for 1/20 of a second, etc.  Those are going to be well longer than the decay speed of a driver.
> 
> ...


 

 Not sure. By fast bass response I mean instant retrieval of what is going on in the music, no speaker lag or muddy catch up. For example on one of my Stanley Clarke albums, where he slaps the bass and the notes change really quickly even though they are low frequency and a slow sound wave, they change quickly and contain grain and texture as he hits the strings. That is what I am trying to explain.


----------



## Michgelsen

I get you. For me, bass produced by dynamic headphones always sounds muddy, never as controlled and clean as with electrostats, regardless of quantity.


----------



## listen4joy

this upcoming T2 successor look cool. should b e named T3 (-:.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

listen4joy said:


> this upcoming T2 successor look cool. should b e named T3 (-:.


 
  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











 Ali


----------



## listen4joy

i meant that in my opinion, it should named T3 and not some long crappy name.


----------



## lilbthebasedgod

listen4joy said:


> i meant that in my opinion, it should named T3 and not some long crappy name.


 
 There's a T2 successor?  I didn't even know about that.  Doesn't sound like a good idea honestly.  
  
 Maybe now that expensive headphones are a bigger market they feel comfortable with it.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

listen4joy said:


> i meant that in my opinion, it should named T3 and not some long crappy name.


 
 You said it looks cool. Do you have more info about it ? Stax's update about this are very rare, and I haven't seen anything but Arnaud's reports...

 Ali


----------



## listen4joy

this from ces 2016 stax both
 http://ces.zol.com.cn/5622104.html
  
 the new amp
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/7665#post_12234772


----------



## astrostar59

lan647 said:


> It varies with model. The 70xxx ones I've heard don't have it. Mine (71xxx) has a little bit of it, but I happen to like it actually. Never gets bright to my ears but does add a little bit och sparkle and "fun" compared to the earlier 70xxx model.
> 
> I find the SR-009 much more bothersome, having what I hear as a raised upper midrange/low treble. It makes the sound more immediately "detailed" but really it just sounds unnatural to me.


 

 You need a better amp IMO to realise the potential. The 007 is more forgiving but is veiled. Get a better amp and we are talking a major leap with the 009.


----------



## listen4joy

the hd800 is also demands good amp to shine, so i imagine for stax it must, personally if i wont have the budget to buy some
 KGSSHV model, some BHSE, or other high end amp thap like T2 or cavali i wouldnt bother to buy these 009.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

listen4joy said:


> this from ces 2016 stax both
> http://ces.zol.com.cn/5622104.html
> 
> the new amp
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/7665#post_12234772


 
 I'm speaking about a T2 successor, not this well-known iteration of SRM-2xx range...still a prototype since 2014, BTW : http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/ces-2014-stax-move#EAseVrsMvjckgF4i.97

 Ali


----------



## listen4joy

So maybe there are no T2 -​ successor, in this case if the stax mafia will sell kevin gilmore new nanotube it can be intresting option.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

Unbelievable.


----------



## Quixote79

listen4joy said:


> this upcoming T2 successor look cool. should b e named T3 (-:.


 
  
  


keithpgdrb said:


> Unbelievable.


 

 a successor to the great T2 is certainly great news ... where can one read about this?


----------



## astrostar59

quixote79 said:


> a successor to the great T2 is certainly great news ... where can one read about this?


 

 Oh my, the disinformation here is incredible. I am going to read the cards and get to the truth...


----------



## arnaud

There should be a mandatory test to pass until one can post in this thread.... Test would be about stax and stats common sense, can't post until you can discern between an entry level prototype dac/amp and what would be a t2 successor for example .


----------



## potkettleblack

arnaud said:


> There should be a mandatory test to pass until one can post in this thread..


 
  
 What a pity. I don't even know what the T2 is, was or does, but I will continue to post impressions and questions on this thread as I see fit.
  
 I hope that's ok with you, Lord Farquhar.


----------



## astrostar59

potkettleblack said:


> What a pity. I don't even know what the T2 is, was or does, but I will continue to post impressions and questions on this thread as I see fit.
> 
> I hope that's ok with you, Lord Farquhar.


 

 Think simple reading on here before posting will do...


----------



## potkettleblack

astrostar59 said:


> Think simple reading on here before posting will do...


So before any questions are asked everything should be searched for using keywords, and if the desired results aren't found users should trawl through all of the pages to make sure they know what they're talking about?

If he got it wrong - either correct, assist or help him... Or just ignore him. Mocking and snobbery doesn't help anyone.

'Look at this wastrel trying to talk about DAC's!! Scoff scoff'


----------



## Ali-Pacha

You're right, no need to be rude, and I've personnaly and carefully avoided that in my first answer.
 But writing with such self-confidence that this small prototype is legacy for the insane T2 is at least chuckling...and no need to be electrical engineer nor Stax's specialist.
 Knowledge (or lack of) isn't at stake here, but the way one is positionning him/herself, turning assumptions based on lacking infos into certainties 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## potkettleblack

True. I understand that there are overlaps and it's not cool to spread the wrong information. I just think those types of responses are more common in this thread than the others.


----------



## zeid2

Are there any signals that Stax will exhibit something new at the upcoming Fujiya Avic Headphone Show (Tokyo, April 29 - 30)?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Stax is a very secretive company, SR-Lx00 range for example was a surprise.
 We know they have some low-end stuff, that has been exhibited since 2014 (DAC-Amp based on SRM-252S and DAC-Amp based on SRM-001). We also know (since 2012 - check Factory Tour) they might still be working on a TOTL amp, they once said it was on standby, Edifier would have said it'll be unveiled this year...anyway, we'll know on time, as always with Stax 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ali


----------



## Uncle E1

zeid2 said:


> Are there any signals that Stax will exhibit something new at the upcoming Fujiya Avic Headphone Show (Tokyo, April 29 - 30)?


 
  
 L300


----------



## Kiats

Pity... No amps...


----------



## Pokemonn

I went Tokyo Headphone festival 2016 today.
 and I audition Senn HE1 + esoteric X05 disk player at headphone festival.
 Not so impressed me at all.
 I listen to CD Eiji Owe, Minnesota Orc. Stravinsky Fire Bird Suite(Reference Recording).
 then I went my home and listened to same CD with SR-L700 + SRM007tA(maybe lesser amp than HE1) + Luxman DA-200(maybe lesser DAC than esoterics) combo.
 HE1 sound fuller bass(+1) and not so impressed treble(slightly muddy). not so impressed.
 L700 sound more musical and articulate treble and less bass. overall L700 sound more musical than HE1 for me IMO.
 I guess Headphone technology has already reached technological plateau.


----------



## zolkis

pokemonn said:


> I went Tokyo Headphone festival 1996 today.
> and I audition Senn HE1 + esoteric X05 disk player at headphone festival.
> Not so impressed me at all.
> I listen to CD Eiji Owe, Minnesota Orc. Stravinsky Fire Bird Suite(Reference Recording).
> ...


 
  
 First impressions often deceive. Maybe it takes more time to appreciate the HE1, but it's indeed surprising that you speak about muddy treble. Sennheiser claims they spent a lot of time on optimize the diaphragm thickness, tension and properties. Also, they spent so much effort on properly energize it... perhaps it is *them* who'd need some further optimizations to get that treble better, or could it be due to synergy with the other equipment?
  
 I think even if there is a plateau, it won't last for long. Stax has made a few breakthroughs with the 009, what I would ask for is only a slight optimization or tuning towards the 007 or HE1000, that would result in a sound as close to perfect as I can imagine from a headphone.
  
 On the other hand, when we compare the decades old SR-5 [Gold] with the current tech (007 and 009), they are not *that* far in musical enjoyment than they are in time, so you are right in a way, and actually they all are using similar diaphragms (OK, I don't know what diaphragm the 009 has, maybe not Mylar any more).
  
 But I expect new diaphragm materials will emerge and that might be a jump.


----------



## AnakChan

pokemonn said:


> I went Tokyo Headphone festival 1996 today.
> and I audition Senn HE1 + esoteric X05 disk player at headphone festival.
> Not so impressed me at all.
> I listen to CD Eiji Owe, Minnesota Orc. Stravinsky Fire Bird Suite(Reference Recording).
> ...


 
  
 That's interesting. When did you test it? Today before the crowd came in or during (you pre-booked/won the lottery to demo)? Personally I enjoyed the HE1 but I think I was expecting more from all that's been written in the past few months. However that's not the HE1's fault but mine for having expectations.


----------



## lojay

I had two private sessions with the HE1 totalling over an hour and a half. The first session was at a rather noisy venue and I had only 20 minutes. I wasn't impressed and thought I didn't hear anything better than my Stax rig. 

The next occasion was in a quiet hotel room. This time, I was very impressed by their technical ability and clarity. It certainly didn't have muddy treble compared to the SR009 but I didn't feel it's treble was necessarily better. Rather, it had a more expansive soundstage. It had much more stage height. Sonic cues were spread out wider and in a clearer fashion. The bass was on par or perhaps slightly more in quantity. Not particularly better in quality.

A colleague of mine also went with me and tested the other HE1 available in a hotel suite. We then went back to our office next to the hotel where my T2/SR009 rig was. He liked my T2 better as he felt that while the HE1 was technically impressive, the T2/ SR009 had a more natural presentation and soundstage. The HE1 makes it sound like the listener is sitting under the piano in a concerto, but the T2 puts you in the audience.

I have since come to the conclusion that, as impressive the HE1 is, it lacks the naturalness and ease and musicality that my TOTL Stax rig delivers. With the HE1 what you have is hyperrealism. With the SR009 there is realism.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

009 + DIY T2 are definitely a bargain 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Wait... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ali


----------



## zolkis

lojay said:


> It certainly didn't have muddy treble compared to the SR009 but I didn't feel it's treble was necessarily better. Rather, it had a more expansive soundstage. It had much more stage height. Sonic cues were spread out wider and in a clearer fashion. The bass was on par or perhaps slightly more in quantity. Not particularly better in quality.





> He liked my T2 better as he felt that while the HE1 was technically impressive, the T2/ SR009 had a more natural presentation and soundstage. The HE1 makes it sound like the listener is sitting under the piano in a concerto, but the T2 puts you in the audience.
> 
> I have since come to the conclusion that, as impressive the HE1 is, it lacks the naturalness and ease and musicality that my TOTL Stax rig delivers. With the HE1 what you have is hyperrealism. With the SR009 there is realism.


 
  
 Wow, that speaks volumes. I can totally relate to the naturalness of the 009. Suddenly a DIY T2 or Carbon is not that far from affordable .
 Still, I wish the 009 was a bit tuned towards the 007, if one can ask such things.


----------



## zeid2

Post cancelled.


----------



## astrostar59

Interesting and very informative though inconclusive tests (not your fault). I had the MK2.5s in Black UK about 2008. They were pretty horrid, very boxy and dull, lifeless. I then heard a MK1 and it was less boxy and the treble more clear and forward, less veiled. I later bought the 007A from PJ late 2015 and it sounded just like the Mk1, nice and clean and clear and no boxy bass hump. Also seemed to have less frame resonance and cleaner bass response. Recently I also heard another MK 2.5 black UK sourced and it also sounded the same as my 2.5. It sounded as though a graphic EQ had been applied and various areas of the frequency response were dropped out. It sounded like it was interacting with the frame as well, and had the old boxy sound again.
  
 So I would still say some of the current Silver Japanese issue 007As are really good, as good as the MK1 IMO, some could end up being a bit off though as you say, and definitely many of the 007 MK2/3s are dull and boxy sounding. Possibly the 007s you heard were early versions. IMO the 007A Mk2 got good from 2015 onwards.
  
 My experiences so far with the 007.


----------



## zolkis

zeid2 said:


> Just my two cents to the everlasting debate on various versions of the SR-007.


 
 This is really confusing... so the latest and greatest thing apostrophed "007A" on this forum is not *that* 007?
  
 I think it would make more sense identifying the SR-007's based on how they sound comparatively to each other, rather than their serial number.
 At least we've got some cues from you description for what to avoid, "shouty upper midrange/lower treble".
  
 I have quite extensive experience with various ear pads on the 007, and the differences can be (measurably) so big that I start to believe there is more to the variance in the ear pads than the variance in the drivers. 
  
 It seems that one series that sounds consistently the same (good or bad, I leave it to the reader), that is the ones coming in the old carbon box with rubber corner protectors, and brown ear pads and serials starting with 70 or 71. The port mod is not applicable on these.
  
 Now it seems we can add the SZ3 2009 batch to another consistent group (I am not judging the sound quality, just saying it's consistent). The port mod is recommended on these.
  
 Now the people who have recommended the new 007A, could you confirm which serial numbers are the "good" ones?


----------



## potkettleblack

Spent the day with the L700 and 007mk2 played through the 353X and the 006ts 

Have to say that as much of a fan I was and am of the L700 they're simply not on the same level as the 007 and tend to exhibit quite a bit of glare with certain recordings. Very impressive for the price but the 007's would be my choice.

Between the 006 and 353 - the 006 again was a clear step up when using both the L700 and 007. The 353 being grainier and less refined.


----------



## zeid2

Post cancelled


----------



## astrostar59

potkettleblack said:


> Spent the day with the L700 and 007mk2 played through the 353X and the 006ts
> 
> Have to say that as much of a fan I was and am of the L700 they're simply not on the same level as the 007 and tend to exhibit quite a bit of glare with certain recordings. Very impressive for the price but the 007's would be my choice.
> 
> Between the 006 and 353 - the 006 again was a clear step up when using both the L700 and 007. The 353 being grainier and less refined.


 

 Hmm, seems Stax still have the 'weaknesses' of the Lambda range in the new L700 then? A few things I think are at fault on the Lambdas:
  
 1. Smaller drivers not over the ears so less dynamics and less bass output
 2. The old treble 'etch' so many used to complain about
 3. Lower dynamics and bass extension / amount to the 007s
 4. Lack of bass amount emphasises the treble balance which can sound airy on some vocal and Classical recording, but off on other types such as Rock.
  
 Bear in mind a lot of the perceived weakness to the Lambda and 007 can be partly resolved on a non Stax amp IMO.
 Also you need a smooth DAC. Budget DACs or brighter DACs will never pair well with Stax headphones IMO.


----------



## potkettleblack

astrostar59 said:


> Hmm, seems Stax still have the 'weaknesses' of the Lambda range in the new L700 then? A few things I think are at fault on the Lambdas:
> 
> 1. Smaller drivers not over the ears so less dynamics and less bass output
> 2. The old treble 'etch' so many used to complain about
> ...


 

 It was certainly improved when played through the 006 but was still present. Also the stage is dramatically smaller when compared to the 007/009.
  
 Either way I still think the L700 represent great value for money. As an example I would certainly pick the l700/353X combo for the price, over something like the HE1000. Actually, as much as I like the HE1000, it makes it seem like a bit of a rip off.
  
 I'm sure there are non-Stax amps that could take both to their capable levels - but it's the support and reliability that worries me. The 006st and 007 combo would make me extremely happy. I was also quite surprised at how close the 007 and 009 were out of the 006ts, technically speaking. The muddy darkness seemed to be a lot more apparent on the 353X than with the 006ts, where the balance was quite lovely to be honest. In fact it was really, really lovely.


----------



## zolkis

astrostar59 said:


> Hmm, seems Stax still have the 'weaknesses' of the Lambda range in the new L700 then? A few things I think are at fault on the Lambdas:
> 
> 1. Smaller drivers not over the ears so less dynamics and less bass output
> 2. The old treble 'etch' so many used to complain about
> ...


 
  
 IMHO the L700 is a clear step above the 507 and much less "Lambda" sound than before. It's still a bit ethereal, the treble is fine but needs a smooth amp, the bass is fine but needs power. It sounds good with a wide range of genres, and qualifies as a fine single headphone for all kinds of music.
  
 The Omegas as smoother and have fleshier, more realistic timbre, more solid sound and better stage too. But you'd know this only when comparing them directly. On first impression, the L700 beats a lot of more expensive headphones, especially with a good tube amp or a smooth solid state. As I said before, if the 507 was as good as the L700, likely I wouldn't have stepped up to the 007 and then to the 009 and then amps after amps and mod the 007 (pads) for 2 years until I liked it more than the 009. That's the good thing about the 507 not being perfect .
  
 So the main threat I see with the L700 is that people will be fine with it and will have harder time justifying to spend more, or much more on headphones .


----------



## potkettleblack

Surely Stax are due to release a new flagship or replacements for the 009/007 soon?
  
 We will probably know a week in advance going by their track record.


----------



## zeid2

To my question Sasaki-san two days ago replied that a replacement of the SR-007 is certainly not imminent and lies further in future. But yes, of course, he would not have disclosed his company's plans even if a new headphone was to appear next week.


----------



## martyn73

astrostar59 said:


> Hmm, seems Stax still have the 'weaknesses' of the Lambda range in the new L700 then? A few things I think are at fault on the Lambdas:
> 
> 1. Smaller drivers not over the ears so less dynamics and less bass output
> 2. The old treble 'etch' so many used to complain about
> ...




Hi, what mid priced DAC (less than £700) is recommended for the SR-007A and SRM-727II? My Chord Mojo works well with this gear, but it's really a portable DAC and using a sound card like my Asus STX II is probably heresy due to noise in the PC. On my shortlist is either the Concero HD or Chord 2Qute but the Chord DAC is, according to some, quite bright and I certainly noticed that the Hugo is brighter than Mojo. However, Mojo produces a slightly narrower soundstage which could inhibit the SR-007A.


----------



## zolkis

martyn73 said:


> Hi, what mid priced DAC (less than £700) is recommended for the SR-007A and SRM-727II? My Chord Mojo works well with this gear, but it's really a portable DAC and using a sound card like my Asus STX II is probably heresy due to noise in the PC. On my shortlist is either the Concero HD or Chord 2Qute but the Chord DAC is, according to some, quite bright and I certainly noticed that the Hugo is brighter than Mojo. However, Mojo produces a slightly narrower soundstage which could inhibit the SR-007A.


 
  
 DAC's are so controversial, if someone makes an opinion, there are 10 others who prove it cannot be right .
 IMHO the Concero HD should be good: I like already the Herus+external USB battery PSU more than the Mojo.
 However, for desktop I would recommend NOS / TDA-1541 based DACs: the sound stage, focus, timbre etc is unbelievably improved.
 It's not a big difference in quantifiable terms, but instruments just sound so eerily more real than with other DACs.
 The problem is finding them or then paying for them. If you don't DIY or if you have HD sources, the Concero HD is pretty good choice.


----------



## astrostar59

Can you stretch a bit more? If yes, get the Schlit Yggy at 1850 USD. It blows away all the others below, at or and beyond that price point.


----------



## martyn73

zolkis said:


> DAC's are so controversial, if someone makes an opinion, there are 10 others who prove it cannot be right .
> IMHO the Concero HD should be good: I like already the Herus+external USB battery PSU more than the Mojo.
> However, for desktop I would recommend NOS / TDA-1541 based DACs: the sound stage, focus, timbre etc is unbelievably improved.
> It's not a big difference in quantifiable terms, but instruments just sound so eerily more real than with other DACs.
> The problem is finding them or then paying for them. If you don't DIY or if you have HD sources, the Concero HD is pretty good choice.




The Mojo indeed has a cult following on Head-fi. The Concero seems to lack galvanic isolation so presumably may be more susceptible to noise from a nearby PC.


----------



## bnsb

Read about Gustard X20U, have seen good reviews from people who have owned it. What I have is Gustard X9, with upgraded Burson Opamps SS Vs but my my needs are at much different from yours.. Both X20U and X9 have balanced XLR outs. My 2p


----------



## martyn73

bnsb said:


> Read about Gustard X20U, have seen good reviews from people who have owned it. What I have is Gustard X9, with upgraded Burson Opamps SS Vs but my my needs are at much different from yours.. Both X20U and X9 have balanced XLR outs. My 2p




Thanks, the X20U looks good and is cheaper than 2Qute. For a Stax amp like the SRM-727II with XLR inputs would the X20U provide a benefit in sound quality if connected by USB to a PC compared to say a conventional amp like a Concero or 2Qute with only RCA output? My source is a desktop PC.


----------



## bnsb

XLRs out blow RCA's out of water in clarity, coherence, separation and wider sound stage. To me at least they sound lot more natural than RCA outs. Could be the Burson opamps get major credit. Since your source is PC (Laptop) like mine here is what I have done. I have bought a Gustard U12 USB to digital converter. I use a very good quality digital co-axial cable from U12 to X9. I also use a very good quality shielded USB 2.0 cable from Laptop to U12. Then of course a pair of Supra iXLR balanced cables from X9 to the energiser. Not my original idea but full credit to people on this forum who have invested their money and time and have posted their thoughts.


----------



## astrostar59

bnsb said:


> XLRs out blow RCA's out of water in clarity, coherence, separation and wider sound stage. To me at least they sound lot more natural than RCA outs. Could be the Burson opamps get major credit. Since your source is PC (Laptop) like mine here is what I have done. I have bought a Gustard U12 USB to digital converter. I use a very good quality digital co-axial cable from U12 to X9. I also use a very good quality shielded USB 2.0 cable from Laptop to U12. Then of course a pair of Supra iXLR balanced cables from X9 to the energiser. Not my original idea but full credit to people on this forum who have invested their money and time and have posted their thoughts.


 

 The vast majority of amplification stages are not truly balanced.


----------



## bnsb

Could you explain please?


astrostar59 said:


> The vast majority of amplification stages are not truly balanced.


----------



## astrostar59

bnsb said:


> Could you explain please?


 

 There are many in the industry both hifi and studio that say this. Here is an article. I will try and find more.
  
 http://www.audionote.co.uk/articles/art_balanced.shtml


----------



## walakalulu

I used to use RCA's from my Nagra source to the headamp but swopping over to balanced made a significant improvement.


----------



## Joeybgood

I am venturing into ElectroStatLand for the first time. !! I picked up a pair of Stax SR-007 MK II. WIll the STAX-SRM-007t amp drive them nicely enough? Just wondering if it has enough power at 340V ?


----------



## AnakChan

joeybgood said:


> I am venturing into ElectroStatLand for the first time. !! I picked up a pair of Stax SR-007 MK II. WIll the STAX-SRM-007t amp drive them nicely enough? Just wondering if it has enough power at 340V ?


IMHO, if you're starting out, may wanna take a look at the SR-L700 instead. It's an "easier to start with" type electrostat that's reasonably well priced & gives you an intro to the "electrostats" sound. That's not to say the other SR-007Mk1/2 or SR-009's are difficult to appreciate but at least in my opinion you do need a heftier investment in the amp to get them to a level where you'll grasp "so this is what the fuss is all about" understanding.


----------



## Joeybgood

anakchan said:


> IMHO, if you're starting out, may wanna take a look at the SR-L700 instead. It's an "easier to start with" type electrostat that's reasonably well priced & gives you an intro to the "electrostats" sound. That's not to say the other SR-007Mk1/2 or SR-009's are difficult to appreciate but at least in my opinion you do need a heftier investment in the amp to get them to a level where you'll grasp "so this is what the fuss is all about" understanding.


 
 I see. But  I've already purchased the 007s. The SRM-007T is a $2150 msrp amp. I realize there is the Cavalli LL 2 and BHSE etc. Won't be able to fund either of those for a bit. Got a nice deal on the MKIIs so I snapped them up. Want to at least get to listen to them at a nice SQ level until I can get the higher end amp.


----------



## Joeybgood

joeybgood said:


> I see. But  I've already purchased the 007s. The SRM-007T is a $2150 msrp amp. I realize there is the Cavalli LL 2 and BHSE etc. Won't be able to fund either of those for a bit. Got a nice deal on the MKIIs so I snapped them up. Want to at least get to listen to them at a nice SQ level until I can get the higher end amp.


 
 as well as the Eddie Current Electra , of course


----------



## paradoxper

Sell the 007T, pick up a KGST/KGSSHV and call it a day.


----------



## AnakChan

paradoxper said:


> Sell the 007T, pick up a KGST/KGSSHV and call it a day.


 
  
 I could be wrong but I think he's picked up the SR-007Mk2 headphones but no amp yet and saw a good deal on the amp. Nothing to sell for the moment but I do agree on your call on a KGS<x> or used Electra if budget is a constraint. BTW, side note, am surprised seeing 2nd hand Electras for less than $2K!


----------



## paradoxper

anakchan said:


> I could be wrong but I think he's picked up the SR-007Mk2 headphones but no amp yet and saw a good deal on the amp. Nothing to sell for the moment but I do agree on your call on a KGS<x> or used Electra if budget is a constraint. BTW, side note, am surprised seeing 2nd hand Electras for less than $2K!


 
 Yes, you're correct. Few commercial electrostatic amps hold their value.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/807247/fs-mjolnir-spritzer-kgsshv
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/805494/mjolnir-audio-kgsshv


----------



## Joeybgood

Yes.I Have the cans, looking for an amp. It escaped my attn that BOTH amp and can are 007. I truly appreciate everyone's input. I've owned several nice planar and dynamic hps. Time to go see what the statics have to offer.


----------



## Joeybgood

So is it the concensus then that the KGST/KGSSHV  is THE static amp to get? Over the Electra, BHSE, Cavalli LL2 etc? I guess I am wondering what IS THE pinnacle in re to static amps? If I'm going to hold off I might as well the best(or at least ONE of the best) agreed?


----------



## Joeybgood

joeybgood said:


> So is it the concensus then that the KGST/KGSSHV  is THE static amp to get? Over the Electra, BHSE, Cavalli LL2 etc? I guess I am wondering what IS THE pinnacle in re to static amps? If I'm going to hold off I might as well the best(or at least ONE of the best) agreed?


 
 I am checking out the Mjolnir w/s. I see there is the Carbon, the Mini, the KGST , the full sized...  difference? also, what is the difference between the Normal hp output jack and the Pro ? tks


----------



## Sko0byDoo

I jumped into the eStat universe with the 007/009 with a home-cooked KGSSHV.  Super happy and satisfied with the SQ; the 009/KGSSHV combo blew me away.  Only a few amps can best the KGSSHV; get it right and get it once.


----------



## Joeybgood

Is there any reason that a KGST or KGSS would very in sound from diy'er ti diy'er? Are these two essentially the same amp but one is SS and one tube?


----------



## AnakChan

> joeybgood said:
> 
> 
> > So is it the concensus then that the KGST/KGSSHV  is THE static amp to get? Over the Electra, BHSE, Cavalli LL2 etc? I guess I am wondering what IS THE pinnacle in re to static amps? If I'm going to hold off I might as well the best(or at least ONE of the best) agreed?
> ...


 
  
 I don't know if it's consensus if the KGST/KGSSHv is 'the" static amp to get. Somehow I got in my head that you had a restricted budget. I think it's somewhat different strokes for different folks about amps. Believe it or not, I've actually come across one or two (admittedly rare) that didn't like the BHSE for example. And personally for me, the KGST although sounded nice wasn't as glorifying what the posts had made out to be (which will lead to the next point further down below). Some folks I know do actually like the LL2 too.
  
 Now about the difference, between one builder to another - sure. Not everyone uses the same components.The KGST.
  
 BTW, since you've mentioned the suite of amps above and the budget is uncertain, you could look at the Carbon & DIY T2 (if someone could build it properly).


----------



## joseph69

joeybgood said:


> So is it the concensus then that the KGST/KGSSHV  is THE static amp to get? Over the Electra, BHSE, Cavalli LL2 etc? I guess I am wondering what IS THE pinnacle in re to static amps? If I'm going to hold off I might as well the best(or at least ONE of the best) agreed?


 
 Congratulations!
 I will tell you this much…I picked up a (Mjolnir) KGST to use with my 009 until my BHSE arrives and I love the combo. It definitely took the edge off of the 009 compared to the (Mjolnir) KGSSHV *for me*. I had the 007-MK2 (for a very short time) and it is darker sounding than the 009 (and that was with the KGSSHV) so the KGST may be a bit too dark with the 007-MK2. But it all comes down to your personal/preference.


----------



## Joeybgood

joseph69 said:


> Congratulations!
> I will tell you this much…I picked up a (Mjolnir) KGST to use with my 009 until my BHSE arrives and I love the combo. It definitely took the edge off of the 009 compared to the (Mjolnir) KGSSHV *for me*. I had the 007-MK2 (for a very short time) and it is darker sounding than the 009 (and that was with the KGSSHV) so the KGST may be a bit too dark with the 007-MK2. But it all comes down to your personal/preference.


 
 So the KGSSHV would be a better pairing with the MK2. Do you have an opinion about which amp would pair best with the MK2? tks!!!


----------



## JimL11

joeybgood said:


> I am checking out the Mjolnir w/s. I see there is the Carbon, the Mini, the KGST , the full sized...  difference? also, what is the difference between the Normal hp output jack and the Pro ? tks


 

 So, ideally you would find friends who had all these different amps and would be willing to lend them to you to listen in your own home on your own system to decide which you liked best.  Like that's going to happen.
  
 So, you will have to decide based on budget and what other people say about these amps.  The general consensus is that the third party amps are better than the Stax amps, because they don't have the constraints placed on them by a commercial amp.  For example, the Stax amps all have a pretty basic, unregulated power supply whereas the Kevin Gilmore designed amps (KGSS, KGSSHV, KGSSHV Carbon, KGST and Blue Hawaii) and the Cavilli amp have regulated power supplies.  The Mjolnar minis use a more basic regulated supply compared to the full size models.
  
 The Gilmore designed amps have either solid state outputs (BJT in the KGSS and KGSSHV, Si Carbide MOSFETS in the Carbon) or tube outputs (6S4A in the KGST, triode strapped EL34 in the BHSE), the Cavilli uses MOSFETs.  The consensus seems to be that the best Gilmore amps are the Blue Hawaii and KGSSHV Carbon, with the KGSSHV slightly behind and the KGSS and KGST another step back.  The T2 DIY is sort of in a category of its own because of its cost and complexity and unavailability compared to the others but some still think it is the best overall.  If you have a preference for solid state or tube sound that may cause you to lean toward the KGSS and its successors (solid state), or tube (KGST, Blue Hawaii or T2, although all of those are actually hybrid rather than "pure" tube.
  
 Both the KG amps, the T2 DIY and the Cavilli amp use constant current loads on the outputs (as do the Stax solid state amps, but not the SRM007), which IMHO is the best way to go.  I don't know if any of the other estat amps do this.  The constant current loads really make as much or more of a difference than the mere voltage swing, because they allow the amp to use its current much more effectively to drive the headphones.
  
 If you are into DIY, the cheapest good option IMHO is the SRX Plus which is my modification of the Stax SRX circuit using constant current loads and sinks plus a simple shunt regulated power supply.  A few people have built it and find it comparable in sound quality to some of the Gilmore amps they have also built, though it has its own tube flavor.  I brought my sample to the recent Head-Fi Albuquerque meet and it impressed a number of attendees, driving SR007 Mk I phones.  Total parts cost including basic enclosure was  under $800.


----------



## Joeybgood

jiml11 said:


> So, ideally you would find friends who had all these different amps and would be willing to lend them to you to listen in your own home on your own system to decide which you liked best.  Like that's going to happen.
> 
> So, you will have to decide based on budget and what other people say about these amps.  The general consensus is that the third party amps are better than the Stax amps, because they don't have the constraints placed on them by a commercial amp.  For example, the Stax amps all have a pretty basic, unregulated power supply whereas the Kevin Gilmore designed amps (KGSS, KGSSHV, KGSSHV Carbon, KGST and Blue Hawaii) and the Cavilli amp have regulated power supplies.  The Mjolnar minis use a more basic regulated supply compared to the full size models.
> 
> ...


 
 Major tks!! THat's a TON of useful info! I picked up the SR-007 MK2 and most folks are telling me that it's probably not the best pairing with the KGST.. too warm/dark.I would prefer to stay under $3k but it if a few more bucks brings me a considerable higher degree of audio nirvana well.... why not?


----------



## Joeybgood

joeybgood said:


> Major tks!! THat's a TON of useful info! I picked up the SR-007 MK2 and most folks are telling me that it's probably not the best pairing with the KGST.. too warm/dark.I would prefer to stay under $3k but it if a few more bucks brings me a considerable higher degree of audio nirvana well.... why not?


 
 I am def not opposed to a little extra warmth in the sound signature, but don't want to sacrifice TOO much detail. I love my Senn HD650s.. as well as my AQ Nighthawks. However... this is with my Emm Labs DAC2X. With my THeta Gen V-A it was a bit too warm. So maybe Id be ok with the MK2/KGST combo with the DAC2X in the chain.


----------



## joseph69

joeybgood said:


> *So the KGSSHV would be a better pairing with the MK2.* Do you have an opinion about which amp would pair best with the MK2? tks!!!


 
  
 Well thats definitely the consensus. Please remember I'm new to the whole Stax/electrostatic amps world as well, and I have minimal experience with both. Like I said, I only had the MK2 for a very short time but do recall it being darker than the 009/KGSSHV was just too much for me, but others love this combo as well as the 007/KGSSHV (some even more). The 009 is a very revealing HP and bothered my hearing paired with the KGSSHV, but thats not to say anything bad about the combo, but it just wasn't for me. I found the 009/KGST a better combo for me. I like having a slightly warmer sound due to the tube output. So all in all one may be technically better than the other, but how they sound to for ones personal preference is a different story. I think of it as more of a side step rather than one being better than the other. For all I know I may prefer my 009/KGST combo to the 009/BHSE combo but only listening to both amp with the 009 will tell me. Sorry if I'm not much help to you, but for me its buy and try and this is how I get my experience in knowing what I prefer.


----------



## comzee

@Joeybgood
 Not sure if you're trying to get something on the cheap to try out estats, but there is this:
 http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wastax.html
  
 It's designed by Kevin Gilmore, the man that designed the KGXXX amps everyone is talking about here.
 He endorsed Woo as the builder for the GES just recently in this thread, said they did a good job. 
  
 I haven't heard much about it here, really not sure what kind of sound signature it gives. Just another amp to research I guess.


----------



## Joeybgood

comzee said:


> @Joeybgood
> Not sure if you're trying to get something on the cheap to try out estats, but there is this:
> http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wastax.html
> 
> ...


 
 Tks!! I checked out the w/s. Unfortunately it is only RCA inputs. I really want balanced. I don't see as there is an option for a balanced build version.


----------



## Joeybgood

Anyone have any love for(or lack there of) for thie Woo Audio Estat amp?
  
 http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=WAWES&variation=BLK&gclid=CjwKEAjwgbG5BRDp3oW3qdPiuCwSJAAQmoSDuTnBJ89D8Vp8bBXOHBQLghlhrhSrOcAcS2WGFIPHExoCuYLw_wcB


----------



## JimL11

comzee said:


> @Joeybgood
> Not sure if you're trying to get something on the cheap to try out estats, but there is this:
> http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wastax.html
> 
> ...


 
 This is an old design, the original article by Kevin Gilmore "All-Triode Direct Drive Amps for Electrostatic and Electret Headphones" at the now defunct HeadWize website is copyright dated 1996.  It was very good at the time, but there is a good reason why all his later designs used constant current loads in the output stage instead of the resistor loads used in his all triode design.


----------



## JimL11

joeybgood said:


> Anyone have any love for(or lack there of) for thie Woo Audio Estat amp?
> 
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=WAWES&variation=BLK&gclid=CjwKEAjwgbG5BRDp3oW3qdPiuCwSJAAQmoSDuTnBJ89D8Vp8bBXOHBQLghlhrhSrOcAcS2WGFIPHExoCuYLw_wcB


 

 The Woo Audio WES uses audio choke loads in the output stage.  This is a unique approach which has its advantages and disadvantages,  On the plus side, it is a passive load.  On the minus side, it is not nearly as effective at delivering current to an electrostatic headphone load because a choke load is generally lower impedance than estat headphone, so the bulk of the current from the output tubes is burned up in the choke rather than going to drive the headphones.  Whether you'll like the sound, who knows?  I've never heard it so I have no opinion of its sound, but here's what spritzer said about the WES and some other amps in 2010 (note that the ES-X is a version of the Stax SRX circuit using EL34 output tubes):
  

 "Well the WES bass is worse to my ears than the GES and a far cry from something like the ES-X.  Now comparing it to the BHSE/T2 isn't exactly fair since a resistive plate load (resistor or inductor as it is in the case of the WES) will never be able to supply the current needed like the constant current source on those amps.  With the ES-X you can hear the amp running out of juice as the bass is a little loose and flabby, almost if something is resonating inside the headphones.  The effect is quite mild but spend enough time with a BH and something like this screams at you...   Now the WES bass is more like the SRM-T1 driving the SR-007, overpowering on top of being loose, flabby and simply out of control.  Simply unacceptable for a $5k+ amp..."


----------



## Joeybgood

anyone have an opinion on a SR007 MK2(new version) DIY T2 pairing? would it be as good , or better , than any other amp paring for the MK2?


----------



## astrostar59

joeybgood said:


> anyone have an opinion on a SR007 MK2(new version) DIY T2 pairing? would it be as good , or better , than any other amp paring for the MK2?


 

 I can say I like the Mk2 new version very much. Any Stax headphone driven by a T2 would be the ultimate sound that particular headphone can give IMO. Have you got a T2? If not, there are cheaper and easier alternatives.


----------



## Joeybgood

astrostar59 said:


> I can say I like the Mk2 new version very much. Any Stax headphone driven by a T2 would be the ultimate sound that particular headphone can give IMO. Have you got a T2? If not, there are cheaper and easier alternatives.


 
 I do not.. Just have been informed what it's price runs.. A bit more than I wish to shell out at this point. I've sort of narrowed it down to the Carbon, BHSE and Cavalli LL2... anyone feel that either of these(or another one altogether) is the best match for the MK2 in the $3-$5K range? or if there's a particular amp that is cheaper than that but happens to pair perfectly with the MK2 for that matter. tks


----------



## rgs9200m

I thought that a T2 was un-obtanium. I see chatter here about it, but as far as I know there is no practical path to one. At least I have not seen anything feasible.
 By the way, I still think that, as a start-from-scratch approach for a Stax system,
 the current model SR007 and a KG amp is still the most realistic and reliable/risk-averse/bang-for-the-buck path to great Stax sound and any leftover resources should go into a really good non-ruthlessly-revealing musical DAC.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

joeybgood said:


> I do not.. Just have been informed what it's price runs.. A bit more than I wish to shell out at this point. I've sort of narrowed it down to the Carbon, BHSE and Cavalli LL2... anyone feel that either of these(or another one altogether) is the best match for the MK2 in the $3-$5K range? or if there's a particular amp that is cheaper than that but happens to pair perfectly with the MK2 for that matter. tks


 
  
 Head-ups on the BHSE option, the wait can be longgg...but if decide better do it now, it will not be offered for long (last batch is in the making).
  
 DIY T2 can be had if doing yourself (hence the name DIY), I haven't seen anyone sells one yet.  But won't be cheap or easy, so just get pre-built amps.


----------



## NormT

Has anyone done business with PriceJapan?I bought the SR009 from them about a month ago. I got a confirmation email from them but thats it. I've sent them a couple emails requesting an update with no response. I wonder if I should cancel my order and go through a US distributor or should I just wait. I did wait for my BHSE but it's sitting here collecting dust.


----------



## AnakChan

normt said:


> Has anyone done business with PriceJapan?I bought the SR009 from them about a month ago. I got a confirmation email from them but thats it. I've sent them a couple emails requesting an update with no response. I wonder if I should cancel my order and go through a US distributor or should I just wait. I did wait for my BHSE but it's sitting here collecting dust.


This week is Golden Week in Japan (string of vacation). I'm not certain of Price Japan's days off during this period.


----------



## astrostar59

joeybgood said:


> I do not.. Just have been informed what it's price runs.. A bit more than I wish to shell out at this point. I've sort of narrowed it down to the Carbon, BHSE and Cavalli LL2... anyone feel that either of these(or another one altogether) is the best match for the MK2 in the $3-$5K range? or if there's a particular amp that is cheaper than that but happens to pair perfectly with the MK2 for that matter. tks


 

 The BHSE is 6K USD and a wait of 8 months on this last batch. A Carbon could be had by looking for a builder or buying Spritzers at 4,600 USD. I don't like LL amps so you need to ask other for that opinion. Pity you are on US voltage, I am selling my very nice KGSShv Europe voltage. A KGSShv would be a great choice as well, and get you 90% of the BHSE IMO.


----------



## echineko

astrostar59 said:


> Pity you are on US voltage, I am selling my very nice KGSShv Europe voltage. A KGSShv would be a great choice as well, and get you 90% of the BHSE IMO.


 
 Three weeks, literally three weeks earlier, and we could have worked something out. Oh well...


----------



## JimL11

joeybgood said:


> I do not.. Just have been informed what it's price runs.. A bit more than I wish to shell out at this point. I've sort of narrowed it down to the Carbon, BHSE and Cavalli LL2... anyone feel that either of these(or another one altogether) is the best match for the MK2 in the $3-$5K range? or if there's a particular amp that is cheaper than that but happens to pair perfectly with the MK2 for that matter. tks


 

 At some point you're just going to have to listen for yourself.  At this level, personal preference is going to play a major role - as someone once said, would you ask someone else to pick your wife?  But if you want a comparative review, I suggest this:
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/listening-great-headphone-amplifiers-and-stax-sr-900#krSQkE1tYflkUmAT.97
  
 Also, although Tyll initially raved about the 009s, he had some further thoughts more recently, here:
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-finale-headphones#idQMH8RxbE1vX5Hg.97
  
 If I was laying out this amount of money I'd go with the BHSE because, not only does it sound wonderful, it also looks spectacular - the other two just look like boxes.  And considering what you get inside the box as well as the box itself, the BHSE IMHO is a bargain - most manufacturers would charge considerably more than the price Justin charges.  Downsides: 1) the wait time, but Justin is a perfectionist, and he takes the time to do everything right, 2)  it does take up significantly more room than the others which may be a consideration, and 3) it draws somewhat more power than the others because its got those EL34 tube heaters which burn up 40 watts.


----------



## 3X0

@Joeybgood I would be careful of making decisions based on opinions hereabouts. Fortunately the DIY-T2 is a five-figure amp and virtually impossible to score in the primary or secondary markets, but the other options are extremely expensive and it is easily possible to wind up dissatisfied with the wrong blind purchase.
  
 The best option is always listening for yourself by any means necessary. Not sure if there are any local meets, but even airfare to the nearest high-profile meet could save you a _lot_ of money making decisions that might not be to your taste.
  
 The secondary market for Stax is rather depressed at the moment so you might be successful in snagging a recent-production SR-007 and a decent energizer (e.g. SRM-717, SRM-727) at little risk. It has been possible to snag this type of combination at under $2000 in recency.
  
 I do hope Stax winds up being your cup of tea (it certainly is mine), but no hard feelings if you settle towards a different end especially if that's arrived by your own accord (as opposed to folks on the internet).


----------



## Joeybgood

3x0 said:


> @Joeybgood I would be careful of making decisions based on opinions hereabouts. Fortunately the DIY-T2 is a five-figure amp and virtually impossible to score in the primary or secondary markets, but the other options are extremely expensive and it is easily possible to wind up dissatisfied with the wrong blind purchase.
> 
> The best option is always listening for yourself by any means necessary. Not sure if there are any local meets, but even airfare to the nearest high-profile meet could save you a _lot_ of money making decisions that might not be to your taste.
> 
> ...


 
 Great advice!! much tks!


----------



## paradoxper

You need to narrow your choice down to the BHSE or Carbon. The DIY T2 is cost prohibitive and you'll never
 find one on the market. It's equally as challenging to find a builder.
  
 First get your feet wet. Snag a Stax amp sell it for a loss or try the KGSSHV which holds its value very well.
  
 Then, perhaps play with the 009 or other models and find what may suite your ears best. AND then, it may be reasonable to think about a BHSE with the wait times or direct to a Carbon.


----------



## Joeybgood

jiml11 said:


> At some point you're just going to have to listen for yourself.  At this level, personal preference is going to play a major role - as someone once said, would you ask someone else to pick your wife?  But if you want a comparative review, I suggest this:
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/listening-great-headphone-amplifiers-and-stax-sr-900#krSQkE1tYflkUmAT.97
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you.. I will give these a good thorough read. Much to sift through to make my decision.


----------



## astrostar59

jiml11 said:


> Also, although Tyll initially raved about the 009s, he had some further thoughts more recently, here:
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-finale-headphones#idQMH8RxbE1vX5Hg.97


 
  
 Hang on there, that test of the 009 was with the modded KGSS amp supplied by Birgir. I am not saying that is not a good amp, I am thinking it would be surpassed by the BHSE or Carbon or T2. So maybe the 009 would climb up somewhat in Tyrll's rankings as that would tame the treble and with NOS tubes in the BHSE (which Tyll hasn't heard in his reviews as far as I can see) would leave the rest for dust IMO.
  
 Ha Ha like the Abyss disaster. I still would like to hear them for myself though, and the HE-1000s maybe at CanJam in London.
  
 But, it does all the same say the HD800 is a bargain, even though it has issues. Nothing is simple in this hobby...


----------



## JimL11

astrostar59 said:


> Hang on there, that test of the 009 was with the modded KGSS amp supplied by Birgir. I am not saying that is not a good amp, I am thinking it would be surpassed by the BHSE or Carbon or T2. So maybe the 009 would climb up somewhat in Tyrll's rankings as that would tame the treble and with NOS tubes in the BHSE (which Tyll hasn't heard in his reviews as far as I can see) would leave the rest for dust IMO.
> 
> Ha Ha like the Abyss disaster. I still would like to hear them for myself though, and the HE-1000s maybe at CanJam in London.
> 
> But, it does all the same say the HD800 is a bargain, even though it has issues. Nothing is simple in this hobby...


 

 Um, maybe, maybe not.  Anyway, Tyll actually was asked that question and here's what he said:
  
 "I think there are better estat amps out there than my KGSS, but I don't think it would change much about my current opinion. Having the opportunity to hear them side-by-side with some of the other new cans changed my mind somewhat. Bob's modded SR-007 was an ear opener."
  
 Now, I haven't heard the 009. but the common opinion seems to be that the modded 007 MkII splits the difference tonally between the 007 Mk I and 009.  Earlier today, I listened to both a 007 Mk I and modded 007 Mk II (both mine so I have no vested interest) along with a couple much more experienced audiophiles using my SRX Plus tube amplifier, and it was our consensus opinion that the Mk I was a bit on the soft side and modded Mk II was tonally neutral, which seems to mirror Tyll's conclusion on the solid state KGSS.


----------



## mulveling

jiml11 said:


> Um, maybe, maybe not.  Anyway, Tyll actually was asked that question and here's what he said:
> 
> "I think there are better estat amps out there than my KGSS, but I don't think it would change much about my current opinion. Having the opportunity to hear them side-by-side with some of the other new cans changed my mind somewhat. Bob's modded SR-007 was an ear opener."


 
 But seriously...what was the deal with a mega review that features a slew of headphones, multiple dynamic amps, and then only ONE stat amp? That being an older design at least a few levels from the top of the 'stat heap (KGSShv...BHSE/Carbon...T2). Stats amp selection is even more crucial than with dynamics. And I like how the sound of dynamic/planar headphones was broken down with each amp, but then with the 'stats...oh wait, you can't do that with just one amp. Just lol at this.


----------



## paradoxper

mulveling said:


> But seriously...what was the deal with a mega review that features a slew of headphones, multiple dynamic amps, and then only ONE stat amp? That being an older design at least a few levels from the top of the 'stat heap (KGSShv...BHSE/Carbon...T2). Stats amp selection is even more crucial than with dynamics. Just lol at this.


 
 Yup. Now, it's Tyll's opinion, etc. He should have had at least 1 other amp on hand for full reference points. Bah.


----------



## JimL11

paradoxper said:


> Yup. Now, it's Tyll's opinion, etc. He should have had at least 1 other amp on hand for full reference points. Bah.


 

 It's too bad you weren't able to make the Albuquerque meet, we could have compared your stat amp and mine.  Maybe next time.


----------



## paradoxper

jiml11 said:


> It's too bad you weren't able to make the Albuquerque meet, we could have compared your stat amp and mine.  Maybe next time.


 
 I'll have the T2 in tow next time.


----------



## JimL11

paradoxper said:


> I'll have the T2 in tow next time.


 

 Super!


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> But seriously...what was the deal with a mega review that features a slew of headphones, multiple dynamic amps, and then only ONE stat amp? That being an older design at least a few levels from the top of the 'stat heap (KGSShv...BHSE/Carbon...T2). Stats amp selection is even more crucial than with dynamics. And I like how the sound of dynamic/planar headphones was broken down with each amp, but then with the 'stats...oh wait, you can't do that with just one amp. Just lol at this.


 

 Yes that is correct. The 009 has so much more to give with the right DAC and amp combo IMO.


----------



## lojay

paradoxper said:


> Yup. Now, it's Tyll's opinion, etc. He should have had at least 1 other amp on hand for full reference points. Bah.


 
  
 I am driving the HEK off the DAVE, and the SR009 off the T2 and DAVE. 
  
 I completely disagree with Tyll's findings. The SR009 is better in every respect to the HEK to my ears and others who have heard this pairing in my rig, and I am including bass and treble smoothness.


----------



## Joeybgood

Can anyone explain the difference(s) between the silver SR-007A MK2 and the  black SR-007 MK2? The stats look the same to me. tks


----------



## joseph69

joeybgood said:


> Can anyone explain the difference(s) between the silver SR-007A MK2 and the  black SR-007 MK2? The stats look the same to me. tks


 
 The "silver" one can only be purchased from Japan and the "black" one can only be purchased from the U.S. Their the same HP's just different colors.


----------



## Joeybgood

What is the full break down of all the KG amps? KG is Kevin Gilmore. I presume.. but the SSHV etc stands for?


----------



## bearFNF

joeybgood said:


> What is the full break down of all the KG amps? KG is Kevin Gilmore. I presume.. but the SSHV etc stands for?


 
 Yes, KG is (Dr.) Kevin Gilmore
 SSHV=Solid State High voltage. (450V or 500V)


----------



## Joeybgood

bearfnf said:


> Yes, KG is (Dr.) Kevin Gilmore
> SSHV=Solid State High voltage. (450V or 500V)


 
 cool... ahhhh.. yes.. figured Solid State...KGST? T is Tube or?


----------



## Jones Bob

joeybgood said:


> cool... ahhhh.. yes.. figured Solid State...KGST? T is Tube or?




KGST is a hybrid amp. Solid state front end with tube output.


----------



## Joeybgood

jones bob said:


> KGST is a hybrid amp. Solid state front end with tube output.


 
 gotcha. much tks!


----------



## velvetx

I am actually currently doing a group buy on boards for the SR-X Plus Amp as well as the JimL Shunt PSU (recently updated by KG).  Please shoot me a pm if you are interested.
  
 The group buy will be closing at 5PM PST on 5/13 which at that time I will be ordering the boards and letting people know what the final price is (currently $27.28 for PSU boards and $41.67 for amp boards).
  
Thanks


----------



## Joeybgood

I know this question is a bit OT, so feel free to respond via PM. I am new to Estats and I know that Stax is the pioneer/king of Estat cans but I'm wondering if anyone owns/owned(or at least auditioned) any other brands of Estat cans that you felt are worthy to own(or at least check out) ?. I know of Kings Sound, Koss,, Hifiman. are there others? Tks!


----------



## bearFNF

Mr Speaker's prototypes were nice. Not sure what the plan for them is yet.


----------



## comzee

joeybgood said:


> I know this question is a bit OT, so feel free to respond via PM. I am new to Estats and I know that Stax is the pioneer/king of Estat cans but I'm wondering if anyone owns/owned(or at least auditioned) any other brands of Estat cans that you felt are worthy to own(or at least check out) ?. I know of Kings Sound, Koss,, Hifiman. are there others? Tks!


 
 I've heard good things about the ESP950, but in regards to it's price/performance. If you went that route, you would want to reterminate the end to a Stax plug and use a better amp. 
  
 I'm not aware HiFiman's estat is released yet, I don't think it is. From what I heard, it's going to be around the $5k mark.....
  
 Never heard of King Sound before. Looking at this thread, they appear to be not bad.


----------



## VandyMan

comzee said:


> I'm not aware HiFiman's estat is released yet, I don't think it is. From what I heard, it's going to be around the $5k mark.....


 
  
 It is not release yet. 10K is the "special" introductory price.  Without the amp. Makes the 009 a great value; especially since the 009 bests it in build quality (by ALL accounts) and has equal or better sound quality (by most accounts). I've seen a few reports that say the Hifiman is better than the 009, but most say it is not as good or just different. I'd still like to hear for myself.


----------



## VandyMan

comzee said:


> Never heard of King Sound before. Looking at this thread, they appear to be not bad.


 
  
 I have the King Sound. It is good and gives a nice taste of the electrostatic-type sound. However, it is not in the same league as the 007. Probably the STAX L700 is better (and maybe even the L500), but i have not heard it yet. I don't use my King Sound much anymore and would be happy to sell it, if anyone wants to try it out. It has a smooth tube-amp-like sound. Lacking at the extremes, but makes up for it with a transparent mid-range and fat bass (which does not go very low).


----------



## velvetx

velvetx said:


> I am actually currently doing a group buy on boards for the SR-X Plus Amp as well as the JimL Shunt PSU (recently updated by KG).  Please shoot me a pm if you are interested.
> 
> The group buy will be closing at 5PM PST on 5/13 which at that time I will be ordering the boards and letting people know what the final price is (currently $27.28 for PSU boards and $41.67 for amp boards).
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Just got a revised quote today since we are currently at a total of 12 psu boards and 11 amp boards the pricing has changed to the following:
  
 Amp Boards went from $41.67 to $27.49
 PSU Boards went from $27.28 to $22.67
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Michgelsen

joeybgood said:


> I know this question is a bit OT, so feel free to respond via PM. I am new to Estats and I know that Stax is the pioneer/king of Estat cans but I'm wondering if anyone owns/owned(or at least auditioned) any other brands of Estat cans that you felt are worthy to own(or at least check out) ?. I know of Kings Sound, Koss,, Hifiman. are there others? Tks!


 
  
 The Sennheiser HE60 has a fabulous midrange and ambiance. Although it is a bright headphone, it's still a pleasure to listen to, and does wonderful things with classical - especially strings - and female vocalists.
 It is nowadays very difficult to find however, and probably overpriced if you do find one. Another disadvantage is that it isn't very reliable. Still, it can sound magical.


----------



## Joeybgood

michgelsen said:


> The Sennheiser HE60 has a fabulous midrange and ambiance. Although it is a bright headphone, it's still a pleasure to listen to, and does wonderful things with classical - especially strings - and female vocalists.
> It is nowadays very difficult to find however, and probably overpriced if you do find one. Another disadvantage is that it isn't very reliable. Still, it can sound magical.


 
 I'm getting them impression that many non-Stax  Estat cans have varying bias' and/or different connection plugs than Stax and thus cannot be hooked directly to Stax or KGSSHV style amps or am I'm not quite understanding this correctly?


----------



## Michgelsen

That's true. The Sennheiser HE60 officially needs a 560V bias, IIRC, so that's close enough to 580V to not be a problem. The plug is different, and many people have retrofitted a Stax plug onto the Sennheiser cable, or made adapters. I also made an adapter (more of a ghetto style thingy) back when I had the HE60, so I could use it with my Stax SRM-T1, which was a very good combination.


----------



## Sorrodje

michgelsen said:


> I had the HE60, so I could use it with my Stax SRM-T1, which was a very good combination.


 
  
 Yup. combination is good to my ears as well. Not stellar but good. bass and overall sound lack a bit of impact and heft. I hope the SRX plus will bring what I looking for.


----------



## VandyMan

joeybgood said:


> I'm getting them impression that many non-Stax  Estat cans have varying bias' and/or different connection plugs than Stax and thus cannot be hooked directly to Stax or KGSSHV style amps or am I'm not quite understanding this correctly?


 
  
 Kingsound, Hifiman, and Mr. Speaker all are using STAX bias and connectors. Others might not.


----------



## bearFNF

vandyman said:


> Kingsound, Hifiman, and Mr. Speaker all are using STAX bias and connectors. Others might not.


 

 Stax Pro bias.


----------



## HemiSam

I re-terminated my ESP950's with a Stax pro-bias plug.  Drove them with my KGST.  They didn't improve markedly from using the Koss energizer.  A bit better with the KGST, but they didn't hold a candle to my 007A's.  Buy them used if you elect to go down that path is my recommendation.
  
 HS


----------



## joseph69

@Joeybgood 
 I'm sorry but I thought you already have the 007-A MKll, no?


----------



## Joeybgood

joseph69 said:


> @Joeybgood
> I'm sorry but I thought you already have the 007-A MKll, no?


 
 I have the 007 MK2 version. black..


----------



## joseph69

joeybgood said:


> I have the 007 MK2 version. black..


 
 Do you not like it?
 Only asking because I see your possibly interested in other brands.
  
 Also there are a few highly regarded amps (which were recommended to you) on the F/S/T forums from people who have taken delivery of their BHSE's.


----------



## echineko

What's the general consensus of the Cavalli Liquid Lightning amps here? I've seen the new version is going to be launched soon, but I don't normally read about the previous models.


----------



## yates7592

I've never used a Cavalli LL but I've read a lot of negative reviews about it.


----------



## bearFNF

I have a LL2 SS and like it.





echineko said:


> What's the general consensus of the Cavalli Liquid Lightning amps here? I've seen the new version is going to be launched soon, but I don't normally read about the previous models.


 what new version are you talking about?


----------



## echineko

bearfnf said:


> I have a LL2 SS and like it.
> what new version are you talking about?



I thought the 2/2T are only estimated to be out in June, as their production only started mid-April? That's exactly the version I was talking about, didn't think they'd already be in people's hands  Was curious about the 2T myself, the design looks really slick too.

How long have you had the LL2? And I'm assuming you use an SR-009 with it?


----------



## Kiats

yates7592 said:


> I've never used a Cavalli LL but I've read a lot of negative reviews about it.




Negative reviews? Where would that be? 

I have the LL2 solid state amp and am very happy with it. I use it with the 007 Mk1 & Mk2, 009 and the L700.


----------



## Kiats

echineko said:


> I thought the 2/2T are only estimated to be out in June, as their production only started mid-April? That's exactly the version I was talking about, didn't think they'd already be in people's hands  Was curious about the 2T myself. .




I have had the LL2 solid state for a while now...


----------



## echineko

kiats said:


> I have had the LL2 solid state for a while now...



I've only been going off what's stated on their website, didn't realise they were already in the wild, as it were. So what's your impressions of it, and also what are you using it with?

Edit: never mind, just saw the other post


----------



## echineko

kiats said:


> I have the LL2 solid state amp and am very happy with it. I use it with the 007 Mk1 & Mk2, 009 and the L700.



I notice you're in Singapore, will be down again with work next week, do you of know anywhere locally where I might demo the LL2/LL2T with Stax headphones? Or did you get yours direct from the States?


----------



## Kiats

echineko said:


> I notice you're in Singapore, will be down again with work next week, do you of know anywhere locally where I might demo the LL2/LL2T with Stax headphones? Or did you get yours direct from the States?




Alex Cavalli sells his amplifiers directly.


----------



## bearFNF

echineko said:


> I thought the 2/2T are only estimated to be out in June, as their production only started mid-April? That's exactly the version I was talking about, didn't think they'd already be in people's hands  Was curious about the 2T myself, the design looks really slick too.
> 
> How long have you had the LL2? And I'm assuming you use an SR-009 with it?



Yep, 009. I've had it for a while. The batch they are starting now will be the last one. They were theoretically going to stop taking orders for them but it looks like you can still get in on the last run. Scratch that, just looked again and it says unavailable on the website.


----------



## echineko

bearfnf said:


> Yep, 009. I've had it for a while. The batch they are starting now will be the last one. They were theoretically going to stop taking orders for them but it looks like you can still get in on the last run.



That's me out of luck then, will need to save up a bit for it, or wait for a bonus, both of which won't happen till the end of the year, at least. 

Thanks for the info, I thought they were just being released. Can I ask what made you go with the 2 instead of 2T?


----------



## bearFNF

echineko said:


> That's me out of luck then, will need to save up a bit for it, or wait for a bonus, both of which won't happen till the end of the year, at least.
> 
> Thanks for the info, I thought they were just being released. Can I ask what made you go with the 2 instead of 2T?


I wanted an SS to compliment the BHSE.


----------



## Kiats

For me, it was similar. The SS LL2 complemented the VAW 8PS which a tube amp.


----------



## echineko

bearfnf said:


> I wanted an SS to compliment the BHSE.



Nice! I'm going with a starter Stax amp to start with, will only be upgrading down the line. Hoping to be in Tokyo next month to buy the 009 in person, though.


----------



## Quixote79

maceboniannero has done a review of the ll2 and seems to like it very much comparing it to the kgsshv. so it must a very good amp.
  
 http://headphone.guru/cavelli-audio-liquid-lightning-2-the-black-beauty/


----------



## joseph69

quixote79 said:


> maceboniannero has done a review of the ll2 and seems to like it very much comparing it to the kgsshv. so it must a very good amp.
> 
> http://headphone.guru/cavelli-audio-liquid-lightning-2-the-black-beauty/


 
@MacedonianHero did the review.


----------



## yates7592

kiats said:


> Negative reviews? Where would that be?
> 
> I have the LL2 solid state amp and am very happy with it. I use it with the 007 Mk1 & Mk2, 009 and the L700.




I'm sure I read at least a few comments on various threads that LL was sorely lacking in bass, maybe that's not true. Let me check. Is there another LL?


----------



## bearFNF

There is the version one LL. The version 2 is quite different. 





yates7592 said:


> I'm sure I read at least a few comments on various threads that LL was sorely lacking in bass, maybe that's not true. Let me check. Is there another LL?


----------



## ericj

Anybody have an SRD-6/SB schematic straight from Stax? Or even photos of the inside of one? 
  
 I think I'm gonna etch my own board to upgrade my SRD-7 to a MkII, using the 5-pin socket from my SRD-4 for the Pro socket. And while I'm at it, if i can tack a wire to the cut-off nub of the center tap on the SRD-4 transformers, I could convert it to an SRD-6/SB. 
  
 This schematic has been posted more than once: 
  

  
 But it has an obvious error. That first diode should be a 100v TVS device (or a pair of 100v zeners nose to nose). So i wonder if there are other errors. 
  
 I figure the bias circuit looks more like this:


----------



## soren_brix

ericj said:


> But it has an obvious error. That first diode should be a 100v TVS device (or a pair of 100v zeners nose to nose). So i wonder if there are other errors.


 
 wouldn't you get something like ~200V on the BIAS pin if the diode is replaced by a 100V zener ? but you'll need a few more steps on the ladder to achieve PRO


----------



## astrostar59

soren_brix said:


> wouldn't you get something like ~200V on the BIAS pin if the diode is replaced by a 100V zener ? but you'll need a few more steps on the ladder to achieve PRO


 

 I would talk to Birgir IMO.


----------



## astrostar59




----------



## Quixote79

bearfnf said:


> I wanted an SS to compliment the BHSE.


 

 have you compared the cavelli ss to the kgsshv? asstrostar59 thinks his kgsshv with sanyo fets is as good as the bhse and even better in the bass so i wonder if you have the same experience? also can you explain a bit how you experience the bhse to compliment the bhse?


----------



## Quixote79

kiats said:


> For me, it was similar. The SS LL2 complemented the VAW 8PS which a tube amp.


 

 can you be so kind to explain a bit on how you think the ll2 compelement the tube amp, cannot seem to find much info on that?


----------



## Kiats

quixote79 said:


> can you be so kind to explain a bit on how you think the ll2 compelement the tube amp, cannot seem to find much info on that?




Here's a comparison and write up about the VAW 8PS which was done previously: http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/1335. I hope this will be helpful to you.


----------



## ericj

soren_brix said:


> wouldn't you get something like ~200V on the BIAS pin if the diode is replaced by a 100V zener ? but you'll need a few more steps on the ladder to achieve PRO


 
  
 Since the SRD-6/SB is a normal bias energizer, isn't that generally the idea? 
  
 Were there any self-bias pro energizers?


----------



## soren_brix

-


----------



## soren_brix

ericj said:


> Since the SRD-6/SB is a normal bias energizer, isn't that generally the idea?
> 
> Were there any self-bias pro energizers?


----------



## Quixote79

kiats said:


> Here's a comparison and write up about the VAW 8PS which was done previously: http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/1335. I hope this will be helpful to you.


 

 thanks a lot. read with great interest. sprks01 seems to like the ll the most then.


----------



## bearFNF

quixote79 said:


> have you compared the cavelli ss to the kgsshv? asstrostar59 thinks his kgsshv with sanyo fets is as good as the bhse and even better in the bass so i wonder if you have the same experience? also can you explain a bit how you experience the bhse to compliment the bhse?


 
  
 I have never heard the KGSSHV, I believe that @MacedonianHero has both the LL and the KGSSHV and has posted about it, might search for it.
  
 Um, do you meant the LL2 SS to compliment the BHSE? if so it boils down to SS versus Tube, and the way they two sound to me. the LL is sharper? and crisp where the BHSE has a smooth full sound. I hope that helps. Both sound very good with the 009. Which one I use depends on my mood and what I am listening to and what I want out of the session. It's good to have options.
  
 I also have a normal bias plug on the BHSE for my Lambda NB earspeakers.


----------



## ericj

soren_brix said:


>


 
  
 I had no idea!
  
 At any rate, my normal-bias stats outnumber my pro bias stats by a large ratio. I actually own nothing that is cabled as a 5 pin pro-bias stax, since my pro bias items are an sr-001mk2 and an esp/950. 
  
 I have two SRD-7 and i figure that if i upgrade one of them to the Mk2 configuration i can use it (with adapters) with my esp/950 and baby stax, and any pro bias stats i may buy in the future. And if i upgrade the other one as well, I can sell it for substantially more money. 
  
 Converting the SRD-4 to an SRD-6/SB is just an academic exercise. 
  
 I might be amenable to selling boards after i complete my own projects but they won't be half as nice as Birgir's since they'll be home-etched and lacking the component side silkscreen and i don't have much interest for myself in supporting misc non-stax bias voltages. They might be half as spendy tho. I have a fair bit of copper clad fr4 and plenty of etchant. What is in question is my inclination to etch, cut, drill, and stuff boards. 
  
 I guess if there's interest from the entry-level stax crowd (of which i believe i am an elder statesman) in converting an srd-4 to a high bias energizer i could look into it. As was pointed out - just a few more doubling stages.


----------



## soren_brix

ericj said:


> I had no idea!
> 
> At any rate, my normal-bias stats outnumber my pro bias stats by a large ratio. I actually own nothing that is cabled as a 5 pin pro-bias stax, since my pro bias items are an sr-001mk2 and an esp/950.
> 
> ...


 
 Had one of those SRD7SB back then ... and had it replaced by a SRD7mkii at some point ... as far as I remember it turned out to be better.
 The SB-thing might be neat and tidy, but not the best option from a SQ perspective ...


----------



## ericj

soren_brix said:


> Had one of those SRD7SB back then ... and had it replaced by a SRD7mkii at some point ... as far as I remember it turned out to be better.
> The SB-thing might be neat and tidy, but not the best option from a SQ perspective ...


 
  
 Yeah. And it's not hard to drill a hole in the SRD-4 enclosure and add a cable strain relief and lamp cord for an AC supply for the bias circuit, but the rotary switch would have to be upgraded as well i think. 
  
 Academic exercise, like i said.


----------



## soren_brix

ericj said:


> Yeah. And it's not hard to drill a hole in the SRD-4 enclosure and add a cable strain relief and lamp cord for an AC supply for the bias circuit, but the rotary switch would have to be upgraded as well i think.
> 
> Academic exercise, like i said.


 
 You can do that ... though I would add an isolation transformer even though Stax didn't ...


----------



## Quixote79

bearfnf said:


> I have never heard the KGSSHV, I believe that @MacedonianHero has both the LL and the KGSSHV and has posted about it, might search for it.
> 
> Um, do you meant the LL2 SS to compliment the BHSE? if so it boils down to SS versus Tube, and the way they two sound to me. the LL is sharper? and crisp where the BHSE has a smooth full sound. I hope that helps. Both sound very good with the 009. Which one I use depends on my mood and what I am listening to and what I want out of the session. It's good to have options.
> 
> I also have a normal bias plug on the BHSE for my Lambda NB earspeakers.


 

 asstrostar59 talks about the bass being better on the kgsshv, but dunno if the same is true with the ll2 ... also asstrostar59 has sold his kgsshv so might be he changed his mind also ...i only have the 007 so it might be different with those?


----------



## ericj

soren_brix said:


> You can do that ... though I would add an isolation transformer even though Stax didn't ...


 
  
 Why? 
  
 I'm not sure that the safety of the device would be much enhanced, and in a small enclosure like a stax energizer, a wee little 1va transformer is still a 1 inch piece of steel with a 50 or 60hz field across it. It could introduce noise.


----------



## soren_brix

ericj said:


> Why?
> 
> I'm not sure that the safety of the device would be much enhanced, and in a small enclosure like a stax energizer, a wee little 1va transformer is still a 1 inch piece of steel with a 50 or 60hz field across it. It could introduce noise.


 
 to get galvanic isolation from mains


----------



## ericj

soren_brix said:


> to get galvanic isolation from mains


 
  
 Yeah, but I question the cost/benefit ratio.


----------



## JimL11

ericj said:


> Why?
> 
> I'm not sure that the safety of the device would be much enhanced, and in a small enclosure like a stax energizer, a wee little 1va transformer is still a 1 inch piece of steel with a 50 or 60hz field across it. It could introduce noise.


 

 An isolation transformer with an electrostatic shield can actually cut down transmission of noise from the power line into the power supply.  In addition, there IS a safety concern with the AC line going directly into HV circuitry.  A 1 va I:1 isolation transformer is totally incapable of transferring amps of HV current through your skull, the AC line can.  What's the cost-benefit ratio of avoiding a preventable death?


----------



## astrostar59

jiml11 said:


> An isolation transformer with an electrostatic shield can actually cut down transmission of noise from the power line into the power supply.  In addition, there IS a safety concern with the AC line going directly into HV circuitry.  A 1 va I:1 isolation transformer is totally incapable of transferring amps of HV current through your skull, the AC line can.  What's the cost-benefit ratio of avoiding a preventable death?


 
 Not totally sure of where this advice is leaning? But i can say from my own experience that a power regenerator can and does improve sound quality a LOT. I bought a PS Audio P10 which I use to power all my system inc the speaker amp. It removed the digital haze and clinical edge to my system, and everything sounds cleaner and faster. The background is also much darker and bass depth has increased.
  
 Like all things in this (complex) hobby it all costs. It is down to what is most effective for the sound improvement. My power regenerator has improved all my separates so IMO is worth the cost.


----------



## JimL11

astrostar59 said:


> Not totally sure of where this advice is leaning? But i can say from my own experience that a power regenerator can and does improve sound quality a LOT. I bought a PS Audio P10 which I use to power all my system inc the speaker amp. It removed the digital haze and clinical edge to my system, and everything sounds cleaner and faster. The background is also much darker and bass depth has increased.
> 
> Like all things in this (complex) hobby it all costs. It is down to what is most effective for the sound improvement. My power regenerator has improved all my separates so IMO is worth the cost.


 

 My post was only incidentally about improving sound.  The major point of an isolation transformer is to improve safety.  The Stax design dates back to the 1960s, before mandatory seat belt laws, etc.  I doubt it could be sold today as designed due to safety concerns - they would probably REQUIRE an isolation transformer.  You don't mess around when playing with AC lines.


----------



## Chillzone21

Looking for an amp to drive newly aquired SR-007 Mk1's, $1000 AUD is my budget.
  
 Noticed quite a lot of 727's on the market, I need 240v for Australia, is it easy to change voltage on the 727?
  
 Better to get the 717? They probably don't come up much for sale.
  
 Don't want the 323s, looking for more power to drive the Mk1's. (What about the 353X?)
  
  
 Recommendations please.


----------



## jdhore

chillzone21 said:


> Looking for an amp to drive newly aquired SR-007 Mk1's, $1000 AUD is my budget.
> 
> Noticed quite a lot of 727's on the market, I need 240v for Australia, is it easy to change voltage on the 727?
> 
> ...


 

 353X doesn't have much more power, the biggest improvement over the 323S is that it exposes the balanced inputs that the 323S apparently has internally.
  
 According to Spritzer, the 323S/353X is currently the best amp that Stax makes. The 717 and 727 can be feedback modded to sound decent and have good power, but a feedback modded one would probably be outside your price range and...I tend to assume that most people aren't good enough at electrical engineering to do it themselves...


----------



## Chillzone21

I would easily be able to do the mod myself, soldering 4 resistors is not exactly difficult.
  
 But I don't want to have to do that if I can avoid it, could balls it up. I read one person compared the 727 with a KGSS and found minimal difference. I mostly wanted to know about voltage conversion, or just use a step down?
  
 727/45w would have to be better with dynamics than the 353x/30w wouldn't it?


----------



## ericj

jiml11 said:


> My post was only incidentally about improving sound.  The major point of an isolation transformer is to improve safety.  The Stax design dates back to the 1960s, before mandatory seat belt laws, etc.  I doubt it could be sold today as designed due to safety concerns - they would probably REQUIRE an isolation transformer.  You don't mess around when playing with AC lines.


 
  
 But all we're talking about here is a bias supply. 
  
 And yeah, the designs date to the sixties but how late were they sold? 
  
 Has anyone ever been injured by one?
  
 I sincerely doubt that a galvanically isolated bias supply sounds better.


----------



## blackads

chillzone21 said:


> Looking for an amp to drive newly aquired SR-007 Mk1's, $1000 AUD is my budget.
> 
> Noticed quite a lot of 727's on the market, I need 240v for Australia, is it easy to change voltage on the 727?
> 
> ...




Just use a stepdown, I did just that for over a year with a set of 009s and a 727A bought direct from Price Japan and sent here to Australia. The 727 is fine on a stepdown. Definitely do the mod, as you say its not difficult. Without the mod the bottom end of the 727 is just plain weird sounding.


----------



## martyn73

I've got a pair of Stax SR-007A headphones and after about 45 minutes the left earpad tends to become uncomfortable despite rotating it, etc. My ears aren't large and don't stick out.
  
 Does anyone else have this problem and can the headphones be modified, e.g. such as larger earpads?
  
 Unfortunately, if there's no solution I may have to my Stax gear.


----------



## rgs9200m

Are they the Mark 1 version (the brown ones)? I had this comfort issue also and endlessly rotated the pads to no avail. My ears would touch the driver pad surface and my ear would be annoyingly crunched.
 But now I have the latest version and it is extremely comfortable not that it has the thicker pads. (I have the black ones bought domestically here in the US.)


----------



## martyn73

rgs9200m said:


> Are they the Mark 1 version (the brown ones)? I had this comfort issue also and endlessly rotated the pads to no avail. My ears would touch the driver pad surface and my ear would be annoyingly crunched.
> But now I have the latest version and it is extremely comfortable not that it has the thicker pads. (I have the black ones bought domestically here in the US.)


 
 Hi,
  
 I have the SR-007A SLZ-2080 so I guess they are fairly recent. As far as I know the only difference between the SR-007II and SR-007A is that the latter is silver coloured.
  
 Thanks,
  
 Martyn


----------



## joseph69

martyn73 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have the SR-007A SLZ-2080 so I guess they are fairly recent. As far as I know the only difference between the SR-007II and SR-007A is that the latter is silver coloured.
> 
> ...


 
 Silver = Japan
 Black = U.S.


----------



## Chillzone21




----------



## Chillzone21

martyn73 said:


> I've got a pair of Stax SR-007A headphones and after about 45 minutes the left earpad tends to become uncomfortable despite rotating it, etc. My ears aren't large and don't stick out.
> 
> Does anyone else have this problem and can the headphones be modified, e.g. such as larger earpads?
> 
> Unfortunately, if there's no solution I may have to my Stax gear.


 

  
 1 cm thick sponge mod, also sounds better to me. Comfort factor is way better. Cut a circle and put it under the pads the whole way around.


----------



## arnaud

Ouch, as if the O7mk1 needs to sound even warmer. I know you inquired about my 727 amp but, honestly, this is just going to sound dreadful...

Arnaud


----------



## Chillzone21

arnaud said:


> Ouch, as if the O7mk1 needs to sound even warmer. I know you inquired about my 727 amp but, honestly, this is just going to sound dreadful...
> 
> Arnaud


 
  
 Actually I used to own the 007mk1 with the 323s, and this was the mod I used to make them sound so much better, try it out if you like, then post back. I am using the Realiser though, and it really enhances the out of head experience. Tightens up the bass and gives you a lot better definition.
  
 And the comfort is way better.
  
 I also successfully modded my HE400i's with this method. To me it is better anyways, each to there own.
  
  
 I recently got another 007Mk1, were are the serial numbers, want to know my version?


----------



## arnaud

Sold my O7mk1 already so won't be me. For the imaging, I can imagine changing the pads depth and to some extent inclination as a major influence on the sound. 

My comment was more about killing of high frequencies with sponge like material (although what you use may be quite poor sound absorber especially if compressed). To my ears, even out of BHSE, the mk1 was too slow sounding, lacking dynamics and part of the "problem" is the voicing. 

But you're correct, some can't stand the 009 and only the 007mk1 will do so, to each his own. BTW, the SR009 with the realiser is something to behold .

Arnaud


----------



## Chillzone21

The 009 would surely be an upgrade, maybe some time soon if I could get one cheap enough on the used market, until then the MK1 will have to do.
  
 I have heard that the 009 is a fussy customer to drive, I am not into bright sounding headphones either. I did briefly hear them at a store with the MK2's, but it was not a good enough experience to go buy, can't say I was blown away. Probably need the BHSE to do them justice. A BHSE and a 009 is way above my budget.
  
 I am sure if I lived with the 009 and they were paired with the right amp, then I would see what they can do. One day.
  
 At the moment my modded 400i's are very dynamic and clean sounding with a 64w amp behind them. Shootout between the two soon, HE6 vs MK1 on the realiser coming up soon, damn that will be the showdown. Stax have the imaging and air, but the Hifiman's have the dynamics and slam factor.
  
 I remember hearing a phone ring while using the MK1's with the Realiser watching a movie, damn I thought the phone was coming from my apartment, LOL. Turned around to look for the phone and then "realised" I had been tricked by the realiser. I have not experienced that type of effect with the Hifiman's yet, hence the reason I am down the Stax road again. Just wish they had more slam for action movies, maybe stable mates are required.


----------



## martyn73

chillzone21 said:


> 1 cm thick sponge mod, also sounds better to me. Comfort factor is way better. Cut a circle and put it under the pads the whole way around.




Thanks, does the earpad extend outwards to accommodate the foam pad?

I wonder if Stax makes larger earpads. I'll be astonished if the SR-007A's earpads are smaller than the SR-007II.


----------



## Chillzone21

martyn73 said:


> Thanks, does the earpad extend outwards to accommodate the foam pad?
> 
> I wonder if Stax makes larger earpads. I'll be astonished if the SR-007A's earpads are smaller than the SR-007II.


 
  
 Yes the earpads have enough room to fit 1cm of foam underneath. Tight fit but it doesn't stretch the material.
  
 In the picture it looks as though the blue foam stops, but actually it goes the whole way round.
  
 You need to cut the foam in the right shape, slightly smaller than the outside of the earpads in a circular diameter. Really easy to do.


----------



## potkettleblack

Hi 

I understand most of you may not own stax amps and I know they aren't considered the best around here, but it's now looking very likely that my move will be to get the 007mk2 and 006t kimik. (My HD800S goes on eBay tonight).

A couple of questions if that's alright:

The significant difference the kimik upgrade makes to those that have compared both (I won't be able to)?

And is it the norm to have to 'warm' the tubes up before listening sessions or can you just switch on and go? And is there kind of a risky time frame for it to be left throughout the day because an overheating risk? It's about to be summer here in the UK, and the house I rent gets VERY hot.

Thanks


----------



## yates7592

Does anybody have any experience of pairing an Audio-GD Master 7 with SR-009? I would imagine it's a good match as Master 7 is slightly warm of neutral and SR-009 sightly bright of neutral?


----------



## oktapod

Hi there.
  
 After six or so years with an HD800 rig (and previously HD600 and other dynamic cans) I have finally made the leap to the world of electrostatic headphones with the purchase of a 404SE/006T combo.  Though I was very pleased with my HD800/SPL Phonitor rig, overall I prefer the 404SE/006T combo.  It easily out-resolves the HD800 and whilst I suspect there could have been a bit more to come from my HD800, the fact that I prefer a mid/entry-level Stax setup to a top-line dynamic set tells me I am on the right path.
  
 Though I am not in any rush, I'd now like to at least open my mind to the possibility of a 'next' move - either in terms of amp or headphones.  My question is therefore whether I would be likely to get a pair of Omega/007mk2 or even 009s to work well enough with the 006T, or would a better amp and sticking with the 404SEs make more sense.  I'm inclined to think that the former route would make the most sense and sound better (even if not optimal for those headphones) than the latter. Sadly, I can't make the jump to a better amp AND headphone in one go, and not should I IMHO as I feel it's better to get to know components first, rather than introducing multiple changes and then not knowing what contributed what.
  
 At this point, there's little that I don't like about the 404SE/006T.  It sounds very natural, transparent and uncongested.  The impact of sticks upon ride cymbal are just about bang-on, and guitars sound about right.  There might be a slight colouration to the sound - but in isolation I can't say, and up against the HD800 I wouldn't like to say which is the more coloured headphone.  Though I didn't expect to, I actually find the Stax bass to be fuller and more defined than that of the HD800 - which is pretty good to begin with.  I kinda miss my crossfeed and the other fancy features of the Phonitor, but overall it's a compromise that seems worth making.  
  
 It might be I just settle where I am, leaving that can of worms unopened.  Lots to be said for that approach - it's certainly the least expensive.  However, I get the feeling that I've been given a taster of true magic that's just around the corner, and I'm deeply tempted to dive in....


----------



## comzee

yates7592 said:


> Does anybody have any experience of pairing an Audio-GD Master 7 with SR-009?


 
 I own both the Master 7 and Yggdrasil, but exclusively use the Yggy with my Stax009 (no particular reason). 
  
 I'll throw my M7 into my Stax setup, and let you know what I think tomorrow once I've sent the day listening to it.


----------



## seaice

comzee said:


> I own both the Master 7 and Yggdrasil, but exclusively use the Yggy with my Stax009 (no particular reason).
> 
> I'll throw my M7 into my Stax setup, and let you know what I think tomorrow once I've sent the day listening to it.


 

 This would be really helpful, I just updated the following thread with my impressions of M7 in my Stax setup: http://www.head-fi.org/t/625793/audio-gd-master-7-discrete-fully-balanced-dac-pcm1704/3255#post_12587633
  
 I would like to try an Yggy one day but I am very happy with M7 in my Stax setup. However, you need a very good digital transport to achieve the full potential of M7... This proved to be true in my Stax setup as well.


----------



## rgs9200m

Is the Yggy a good match with the current version SR007? Thanks.


----------



## soren_brix

potkettleblack said:


> And is it the norm to have to 'warm' the tubes up before listening sessions or can you just switch on and go? And is there kind of a risky time frame for it to be left throughout the day because an overheating risk? It's about to be summer here in the UK, and the house I rent gets VERY hot.
> 
> Thanks


 
 tubes needs to be warmed up before they'll conduct ... takes about 10-30s depending on the tubes and probably takes about half an hour or so before the tube settles
 Leaving the amp turned on 24x7 only gonna shorten the lifetime of the amp and tubes.


----------



## potkettleblack

soren_brix said:


> tubes needs to be warmed up before they'll conduct ... takes about 10-30s depending on the tubes and probably takes about half an hour or so before the tube settles
> 
> Leaving the amp turned on 24x7 only gonna shorten the lifetime of the amp and tubes.


Thanks mate.


----------



## arnaud

oktapod said:


> Hi there.
> 
> 
> , I'd now like to at least open my mind to the possibility of a 'next' move - either in terms of amp or headphones.  My question is therefore whether I would be likely to get a pair of Omega/007mk2 or even 009s to work well enough with the 006T, or would a better amp and sticking with the 404SEs make more sense. ... Sadly, I can't make the jump to a better amp AND headphone in one go, and not should I IMHO as I feel it's better to get to know components first, rather than introducing multiple changes and then not knowing what contributed what.
> ...




In your situation, I'd recommend checking the new L700. It's a really neat pairing with Stax tube amps and less damaging to the wallet than trying to dive into Omega series now...

There was (still is?) one for sale below 1kUSD recently on this site I believe, quite a deal imo.


----------



## martyn73

potkettleblack said:


> Hi
> 
> I understand most of you may not own stax amps and I know they aren't considered the best around here, but it's now looking very likely that my move will be to get the 007mk2 and 006t kimik. (My HD800S goes on eBay tonight).
> 
> ...


 
 The recommended amps for the SR-007II are either the SRM-727II or SRM-007tII. I enquired about the Kimik mod a while ago and wasn't convinced that the frozen tubes offered a noticeable improvement for £250. You could get similar results using compatible third party tubes with an SRM-007tII provided you're happy about rebiasing the amp. Stax amps don't rebias automatically.
  
 I owned an SRM-006t for a number of years and the amp will only start working after about 5 seconds once the tubes have warmed up. I tried the SRM-006t with the SR-007A and found it lacking bass and the headphones work at their best with a Stax or Nezzar amp. I haven't tried the Kevin Gilmore or Blue Hawaii amps but they're difficult to find and much more expensive.
  
 Apologies for not getting back to you regarding the HD800S. Unfortunately, I may end up getting the HD800S headphones because I find the SR-007A headphones uncomfortable. The earpads are too small.


----------



## potkettleblack

Thanks for the input. I will be sure to try all the Stax amps they have before I buy. The 006t really did a lot for me for some reason. And as I've said to others a KGSS is something I'd really like to hear in the future. The blue Hawaii will never be a consideration.

If you're still interested in 800S I will be putting them on eBay hopefully within the next 24 hours so keep a look out. The last pair that was on there sold very quickly and I would be happier for them to go to a headfier. Either way, and if you decide to buy new - there's no need to apologise mate.


----------



## arnaud

I have also been comparing the HD800S (driven from dac's headphone out) to the BHSE/SR009 combo lately thanks to a friend's loaning his senn to me.

My impressions haven't changed over the couple weeks so far: the HD800S has a very impressive soundstage, very expansive and layered. The stat images very precisely with lots of depth but nowhere near same width as the senn.

Now, this is about the only thing I prefer about the HD800S. The stat sounds smoother, the mid-highs are better integrated to the rest of the range (still feels to me like the HD800 suffers from some coloration somwhere in upper mids and / or treble region). Simple example: cymbals stick out with the HD800, the shimmer feels more realistic to me through the stats.
Bass has more impact with the stats and possibly more extension (the HD800S definitely sounds like an open baffle / open back / open cell pads headphone).

Overall, I am still as impressed with the senn as I ever was (used to own an HD800) and it's probably as good as it get in dynamic world but still no cigar compared to properly amped SR009 ime.

Cheers,
Arnaud


----------



## Joeybgood

potkettleblack said:


> Thanks for the input. I will be sure to try all the Stax amps they have before I buy. The 006t really did a lot for me for some reason. And as I've said to others a KGSS is something I'd really like to hear in the future. The blue Hawaii will never be a consideration.
> 
> If you're still interested in 800S I will be putting them on eBay hopefully within the next 24 hours so keep a look out. The last pair that was on there sold very quickly and I would be happier for them to go to a headfier. Either way, and if you decide to buy new - there's no need to apologise mate.


so why don't you just list them here on Headfi ? No fee and a MUCH better chance they'll be purchased by a Headfier


----------



## Sorrodje

@arnaud you're talking about properly amped sr009 but what was the amp you used with this hd800S?


----------



## aksh

Any inputs from the Stax community for replacement SR-009 ear pads? These don't seem to be available on-line as after-market parts, like the 007.
 My ~2 year old headphone pads haven't visibly deteriorated, but the foam seems to be losing its springiness, the tropical weather where i stay isn't helping as well.
 Would appreciate comments...


----------



## arnaud

Hi Sorro: 
- no amp, direct from the dac's output stage (there's a headphone out at the back)
- in terms of voltage gain, there's plenty (I listen at -20dB of attenuation with the hd800)
- in terms of power, it's supposed to drive impedances above 32 ohms so the hd800 isn't too tough a load I think
- also, I recall reading the output impedance is in the range of 45 ohms (to be verified) which, if anything, should warm up the sound of the hd800 if I recall tyll's article on inner fidelity (?)
- I never went down the rabbit hole with my HD800 and settled for a lehmann bcl but, indeed, I recall the phone sounding a but better with some amps (liked the luxman p-1 at the time I recall)
- the differences in tonality and low end performance I am referring to here though are much less subtle than amplification change on the hd800 though

Cheers, arnaud


----------



## comzee

@yates7592
@seaice
  
  


Spoiler: Review



My test bed:

 Desktop with Corsair AX power supply (better caps for cleaner power)
 Spotify
 Both dacs set to 24/44.1 for all listening
  
 The two dac setups:
 Yggdrasil -> Integrated Gen3 USB -> Desktop
 Master 7 -> I2S -> DI-2014 (with upgraded clock) -> USB -> Desktop
  
  
 YMMV/IMO/etc.....
  
 When I plugged my Master 7 in, I got most of what I'm used to.
 Amazing resolution, dynamics, soundstage, clarity, presence, control.
  
 Of course if you're spending $2k+ on Dac, this is expected. The M7 in the arena of DACs is no slouch. 
  
 With that said, it seemed ... hot? Hard to explain. In direct comparison with the Yggdrasil, it seemed louder. Not in the sense of volume, just blown out. 
 Please keep in mind, when I say "blown out", it is in comparison between the two, I'm talking about nuances here. 
  
 Maybe could be the fact that the M7 XLR outputs 5v, while the Yggdrasil XLR ourputs 4.5v?
  
 I've read others reviews between the two, the general consensus was, M7 is more "liquid" and "tamer". Upon finally A/B'ing myself, I found quite the opposite to be true.
 I had to listen to songs I've been recently listening to, because that's really the only way to make even remotely good comparisons.

 Van Halen:
 Hot for Teacher - Starting drums slightly more defined (maybe not defined, but clearer...) with the Ygg
 Cymbals after the drums more articulated. Guitar itself less "blown out" with the Ygg

 Kleerup:
 Longing for Lullabies - Female focal lost it's nuances, bland with the M7.
 I don't particularly like the vocals on this song, but I was at a party  and listened to this about 20 times recently.
  
 Rone:
 Parade - More ethereal with the Ygg, better microdetail. 
  
 Slash:
 Anastasia- The opening guitar really lost it's life with the M7. After it breaks out into the louder guitar part after that, the M7 again gave me this "blown out" feeling. (please keep in mind this is still nuances in direct comparison to the Ygg). The solo starting at 3:04 is simply better with the Yggdrasil, less harsh, more articulated. 
  
  
 I'm going to a meetup this Saturday, and was going to keep the M7 in my office for a few days until that, because it's not the easiest job to swap around the audio chains. After work, I just wanted to listen, and put the Ygg back into my Stax chain, if that tells you anything... 
  
 Not sure what others have heard when they reviewed these two, but it could be because the two items below were not done:
 Keeping the Ygg on 24/7 (for at least 1 month after buying) to get it's full quality. 
 Also, some peeps over in the Yggdrasil thread said the Gen3 USB needs burning in as well.
  
 To summarize, I like the Yggdrasil much better with my Carbon+009 setup. 
 The M7 is no slouch, but yea.


----------



## yates7592

Hey thanks for your impressions. Could I ask what mode the M7 was in - NOS or some multiple of oversampling?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I've also briefly compared M7 and Yggy through some of my Stax (SRM-1/mk2 + Lambda NB and Lambda Signature, SRM-727II modded + SR-007mk1 and Sigma Pro), and did prefer the Yggy.
 M7 has more output voltage, mids are mellower, global tonality is more euphonic, but Yggy really kicks ass with its Moffat Bass, and detail retrieval /soundstage are better. I ended up buying this unit, though.

 Ali


----------



## Sorrodje

@arnaud: I got where you're coming from thanks.


----------



## oktapod

Thanks for the comment re: looking out for the L700 as an alternative to pushing for the 007A or higher.  One concern I have is that the comparison thread here on HeadFi suggests that some HD800 owners found the L700 in some ways inferior to HD800 (when HD800 driven by a good headamp).  My experience with 404SI/006T is that this combo is probably better across the board than HD800 with SPL Phonitor, and consensus would seem to suggest the L700 is quite a bit better than 404SI so what gives?  Or am I over-analysing? 
  
 What I am wondering is about running L700 with my 006T amp - at least in the short/medium term.  I could buy a pair of L700 from the proceeds of selling my HD800 & Phonitor, but unless I added money to the equation I couldn't buy a better amp to drive them.  Having spent enough money on hifi for a while, I'm therefore reluctant to pile in more money at this point in time.


----------



## PATB

My HD800 (classic/anax mod) rig and SR009 rigs are side by side, and I have been alternating between them for close to a year now.  My HD800 has a balanced Cardas Clear (dual Cardas gold connectors) cable and driven by a balanced tube amp (SinglePower SDS-XLR).  The SR-009 is driven by a KGSS-HV (by NoPants) with Sanyo parts.  My sources, which I used on both rigs, are low to mid-fi compared the ones talked about in this forum so take this with a grain of salt.   
  
 IMHO, the HD800 and the SR-009 are very close in terms of sonic signature.  It doesn't really make much sense to keep both rigs around.  But I am too lazy to sell anything these days, so they both stay!
  
 I like the HD800 for its soundstage and detail "retrieval" (this may be an illusion because of the grainer treble) and the SR009 for its ultra smooth extended treble.  The HD800 is more comfortable, so I prefer it for extended listening sessions. In contrast, the "vacuum clamping force" of the SR-009 gets to me after about an hour.  If it weren't for this comfort issue with the SR-009, I would have placed an order for a BHSE long ago.


----------



## mulveling

patb said:


> My HD800 (classic/anax mod) rig and SR009 rigs are side by side, and I have been alternating between them for close to a year now.  My HD800 has a balanced Cardas Clear (dual Cardas gold connectors) cable and driven by a balanced tube amp (SinglePower SDS-XLR).  The SR-009 is driven by a KGSS-HV (by NoPants) with Sanyo parts.  My sources, which I used on both rigs, are low to mid-fi compared the ones talked about in this forum so take this with a grain of salt.
> 
> IMHO, the HD800 and the SR-009 are very close in terms of sonic signature.  It doesn't really make much sense to keep both rigs around.  But I am too lazy to sell anything these days, so they both stay!
> 
> I like the HD800 for its soundstage and detail "retrieval" (this may be an illusion because of the grainer treble) and the SR009 for its ultra smooth extended treble.  The HD800 is more comfortable, so I prefer it for extended listening sessions. In contrast, the "vacuum clamping force" of the SR-009 gets to me after about an hour.  If it weren't for this comfort issue with the SR-009, I would have placed an order for a BHSE long ago.


 
 I agree with you on the main sonic differences of these headphones. But I consider the SDS-XLR an "outlier" amp -- it makes Sennheisers sound _*significantly*_ more musical and beautiful than they do on any other amp (even other great amps, e.g. GS-X Mk 2, Balanced Dynahi). Your KGSShv is a great amp, no doubt, but placed next to the musical pinnacle of dynamic amps for high impedance + high efficiency? Honestly you gotta hear those 009 with an amp another level-up -- I think even a good Carbon _might_ put you over the edge in favor of the Stax setup.


----------



## mulveling

@PATB
 That said, it's also possible you haven't tapped out the potential of that SDS-XLR. Tube selection is crucial. For outputs: 7044 w/ adapters or 6BX7GT (ANY 6sn7 is a bad choice here). For gain, a Tung Sol round plate 6sn7 or WE 396a w/ 2c51 adapter is a must.


----------



## ericj

mulveling said:


> @PATB
> That said, it's also possible you haven't tapped out the potential of that SDS-XLR. Tube selection is crucial. For outputs: 7044 w/ adapters or 6BX7GT (ANY 6sn7 is a bad choice here). For gain, a Tung Sol round plate 6sn7 or WE 396a w/ 2c51 adapter is a must.


 
  
 While i agree that the 6SN7 is not a realistic output tube, "tube rolling" of this nature -- substituting very different tubes without changing any values in the circuit -- is foolishness.


----------



## PATB

ericj said:


> While i agree that the 6SN7 is not a realistic output tube, "tube rolling" of this nature -- substituting very different tubes without changing any values in the circuit -- is foolishness.


 
  
 The SDS-XLR has adjustable bias and adapters, allowing it to work with 6BL7GT (what I use for output), etc.


----------



## ericj

patb said:


> The SDS-XLR has adjustable bias and adapters, allowing it to work with 6BL7GT (what I use for output), etc.


 
  
 OK, I'm not familiar with the design. 
  
 Still seems odd to roll dissimilar double triodes against bottles with two identical triodes.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Has someone expreriences with the *Nebuchadnezzar *amp from Eric Konka?
 http://knob.planet.ee/amps/staxneb1/staxneb1.htm
  
 Is it on par with KGST or maybe BHSE?


----------



## astrostar59

trance_gott said:


> Has someone expreriences with the *Nebuchadnezzar *amp from Eric Konka?
> http://knob.planet.ee/amps/staxneb1/staxneb1.htm
> 
> Is it on par with KGST or maybe BHSE?


 
 I would run away from that if I was you. I know a guy 2 months back bought one and then manically tried to return it. Birgir also said it was a poor copy of the Woo Ges which itself is not as good as the KG amps.
  
 I would look for a used KGSShv or KGST, both sound great and well designed.


----------



## Quixote79

trance_gott said:


> Has someone expreriences with the *Nebuchadnezzar *amp from Eric Konka?
> http://knob.planet.ee/amps/staxneb1/staxneb1.htm
> 
> Is it on par with KGST or maybe BHSE?


 
  
  


astrostar59 said:


> I would run away from that if I was you. I know a guy 2 months back bought one and then manically tried to return it. Birgir also said it was a poor copy of the Woo Ges which itself is not as good as the KG amps.
> 
> I would look for a used KGSShv or KGST, both sound great and well designed.


 
  
 if i remember right zolkis has actually heard the amp and is very satiesfied. asstrostar59 has not heard it and this birgir only seen a few pics of it so please dont put too much weight into asstrostar59 opinion on this


----------



## Quixote79

trance_gott said:


> Has someone expreriences with the *Nebuchadnezzar *amp from Eric Konka?
> http://knob.planet.ee/amps/staxneb1/staxneb1.htm
> 
> Is it on par with KGST or maybe BHSE?


 
 here is the impression from zolkis http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/7725#post_12263021
  


> Originally Posted by zolkis View Post
> 
> I have spent about 2 hours with the following gear:
> 
> ...


----------



## paradoxper

If there's no comparative experience with the other KG amps, that's not very meaningful. Further, a 2 hour sessions isn't enough time to give an definitive report.


----------



## Quixote79

paradoxper said:


>


 

 paraboxer it might be that two hours is not enough but it is a lot more than asstrostar59 who has not heard it and is only parroting other opinion ...zolkis actually heard it and liked it


----------



## paradoxper

quixote79 said:


> paraboxer it might be that two hours is not enough but it is a lot more than asstrostar59 who has not heard it and is only parroting other opinion ...zolkis actually heard it and liked it


 
 The question was asked if this may compare to the KGST or BHSE.  The point is Zolkis hasn't heard a KGST nor BHSE so the comparative
 perspective Trance is looking for is simply missing.


----------



## kevin gilmore

Although this is the stax thread...

The singlepower sds and sds xlr are both white cathode follower output stage circuits. A shared dual triode is the input gain
For both channels (or balanced phases of one channel) and the output of this stage is DC coupled to the top cathode follower
Output tube. A resistor between the plate of this tube and B+ is capacitvely coupled to the grid of the bottom tube resulting
In a push pull output stage. Due to voltages involved, (350,400,450 and much more) you can't use 6as7 which would make
The circuit drive low impedance headphones better. Output is capacitvely coupled, with various kinds of capacitors, some
Of which were not rated for the voltages involved. So a bad tube, the capacitor shorts, and the headphones fry...

Basically usual singlepower


----------



## Quixote79

paradoxper said:


> The question was asked if this may compare to the KGST or BHSE.  The point is Zolkis hasn't heard a KGST nor BHSE so the comparative
> perspective Trance is looking for is simply missing.


 

 actually the question was both experience which zolkis has and next question was whether it compared to kevins amps ...


----------



## paradoxper

quixote79 said:


> actually the question was both experience which zolkis has and next question was whether it compared to kevins amps ...


 
 It's the same damn thing. How can one know if it's on par with the KGST or BHSE without having heard them....


----------



## HemiSam

trance_gott said:


> Has someone expreriences with the *Nebuchadnezzar *amp from Eric Konka?
> http://knob.planet.ee/amps/staxneb1/staxneb1.htm
> 
> Is it on par with KGST or maybe BHSE?


 
 I believe one of those gems (sly smirk on face) is for sale in the For Sale forum.  Best of luck....
  
 HS


----------



## Trance_Gott

Hey stayed cool!
Thanks Mr. Gilmore to clarify the technically standpoint.
Seems it is better to live with my KGSS and maybe in future to upgrade to a Carbon.
But currently I'm in love with the KGSS driven my SR007A and SR009 powerfully.


----------



## mulveling

@Quixote79
 Be honest - are you a troll, or is it just that English is not your 1st language? Plz respond.


----------



## potkettleblack

Mulveling - are you attending CanJam London?


----------



## astrostar59

potkettleblack said:


> Mulveling - are you attending CanJam London?


 
 Hey guys, I will be there. Looking forward to it indeed. Is there a DIY table like last year?


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## potkettleblack

Yeah I asked just to see if there would be any of the DIY Stax amps there. Would love to hear what the fuss is about.


----------



## zolkis

For the record I have compared the Nebuchadnezzar with a 007t Mk2 and a 353x, and sounded better than the 353x, and a little bit better than the 007t. That's it. That defines its class pretty well, which means very good value for money. No comparison made with any KG amps, but the 009, 007 mk2 and mk1 and the L700 all sounded pretty good from the Nebuchadnezzar. I listened at low to medium volume levels, classical, jazz, instrumental, pop and electronica. For better context you'd need to buy one and compare yourself.


----------



## Trance_Gott

zolkis said:


> For the record I have compared the Nebuchadnezzar with a 007t Mk2 and a 353x, and sounded better than the 353x, and a little bit better than the 007t. That's it. That defines its class pretty well, which means very good value for money. No comparison made with any KG amps, but the 009, 007 mk2 and mk1 and the L700 all sounded pretty good from the Nebuchadnezzar. I listened at low to medium volume levels, classical, jazz, instrumental, pop and electronica. For better context you'd need to buy one and compare yourself.



Sorry I don't want to fry my SR009. Then 5000€ is from one moment to the next out of the window.


----------



## zolkis

Valid. No amp maker will give you insurance, that's why stat amps need verifiable good design and reputation coming from verified experience with them. Newcomers are in difficult position. You can ask the makers all questions you have about how the headphones are protected, but a known and tested design is always safer, albeit it may be up to several times more expensive.


----------



## crazychile

Does anyone have any experience with the Exstata amp? I bought one last year used from Birgir with an upgraded BHSE power supply which is what I have always read was the weak point of this amp. I bought it to use temporarilly with my ESP-950s, as I prepare to move up to L700s, so I would have something with the Stax plug. I was wondering how the Exstata might compare to a KGST so I can get an idea of how much of an improvement to expect.

Thanks


----------



## martyn73

zolkis said:


> For the record I have compared the Nebuchadnezzar with a 007t Mk2 and a 353x, and sounded better than the 353x, and a little bit better than the 007t. That's it. That defines its class pretty well, which means very good value for money. No comparison made with any KG amps, but the 009, 007 mk2 and mk1 and the L700 all sounded pretty good from the Nebuchadnezzar. I listened at low to medium volume levels, classical, jazz, instrumental, pop and electronica. For better context you'd need to buy one and compare yourself.


 
 I too tried the Nezzar amp with my SR-007A and it sounded much better than the SRM-006t and SRM-323S, both of which I have recently sold. The Nazzar amp provided much better bass extension without the appalling treble response of the SRM-323S. The Nezzar's sound can be characterised as sweet, powerful and well suited to a variety of genres. Whereas the SRM-007tII may lose composure at higher volume levels, the Nezzar amp remains tightly focused and acts like a SRM-727II without the treble glare which can be ruinous for female vocalists. All this is subjective, but I miss the Nezzar. A factor which influenced my decision to try the Nezzar was that the 4 triodes can be replaced without rebiasing - Stax take note. Apparently the current versions have three sockets so an electrostatic threesome is possible!
  
 Despite being entirely triode powered electronic music is no obstacle. Sadly hearing loss means high end headphones are no longer relevant to me, so my SR-007A will be sold soon.


----------



## astrostar59

Interesting about the Nezzar. IMO we could do with more amplifier manufacturers in this sector. I came from a Stax system and was never aware of a non Stax amp. That all changed when I found this forum. I think it is a leap of faith to buy DIY or without hearing gear, but so far everything I have bought via this forum has been great.


----------



## Blackmore

Guys, does it make sense to buy SRM T1 amp these days.
  
 THX


----------



## joseph69

blackmore said:


> Guys, does it make sense to buy SRM T1 amp these days.
> 
> THX


 
 No, you can buy my Moljnir KGST in a couple of months.


----------



## Blackmore

Well, for he same money T1 goes
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


joseph69 said:


> No, you can buy my Moljnir KGST in a couple of months.


----------



## joseph69

> Well, for he same money T1 goes


 
  A bit more, but I wouldn't hit you over the head either.


----------



## Michgelsen

blackmore said:


> Guys, does it make sense to buy SRM T1 amp these days.
> 
> THX


 
  
 It would be in need of a recap, if it hasn't got new caps already. Its tubes can be replaced, and rebiasing is easy. For the rest, sure, it's a fine amp with Lambdas.


----------



## Blackmore

Thanks for the info, thats what I was thinking as well, because of its  production year and if you are Lucky, it will be 20+ years old at least
  
 Quote:


michgelsen said:


> It would be in need of a recap, if it hasn't got new caps already. Its tubes can be replaced, and rebiasing is easy. For the rest, sure, it's a fine amp with Lambdas.


----------



## ericj

Some data for people building or rebuilding / repairing / upgrading energizers. Since in my research i have found that some questions get asked over and over and sometimes the answers received are wrong or a near miss. 
  
 The zener device in an SRD, marked Z1100 in the SRD-7 Mk2 datasheet, is a bidirectional TVS diode. transient voltage suppressor. You want one with a 100v breakdown voltage (not a 100v working voltage, or a 100v clamping voltage). Based on data here: http://www.datasheets360.com/part/detail/z1100/6016642548585695874/
  
 For my project i have selected an MCC brand P6KE100CA-TP, 45 cents at Mouser. 

 You can use two 100v zeners nose to nose, but, i don't want to. 
  
 For the rest of the diodes of course we mostly use 1n4007 but really anything from 1n4003-1n4007 will work. But owing to popularity, the 1n4007 may be cheaper. And within that range it hardly matters. All of these are way better diodes than ever made it into most energizers. 
  
 On the SRD-7 Pro and Mk2 schematics you see four devices represented by a big Z marked ZL01 through ZL04. It turns out that these are MOVs. Just like the devices in a "surge protector" type power strip, but at a different rating. 
  
 Spritzer tells me that some later devices used high voltage zeners instead, but the MOVs will be quieter because they lack the switching noise inherent in a zener. 
  
 The datasheet for the original device is here, but it's mostly in japanese: http://www.datasheetlib.com/datasheet/681268/enb461m-03a_fuji-electric.htm
  
 archive.org has the text of a whitepaper for another member of the "Z-Trap" line of devices here: https://goo.gl/3Tz6Nn -- it is clearly stated that they are metal oxide varistors, not zeners. 
  
 So we're looking for a very low capacitance MOV rated for about 460v. Turns out these are currently available from a few vendors. 
  
 I have selected the Littelfuse V470ZA05P -- rated at 470v vs. the 460v of the original part (close enough!) and 35pf rather than the 40pf of the original device. 64 cents at mouser. They are tiny 5mm diameter discs. 
  
 The PTH devices marked BD100N in the SRD-7 Mk2 schematic are still available. The current, full part number is PTGL07BD100N2B51BO - buck 20 each at mouser. I didn't see anything that looked like a more modern or superior device that does the same job, but since materials science has come such a long way since the 1970's, the current product is undoubtedly superior to the old one. 
  
 These are here to protect both your transformers and your amplifier so if you for some reason think thermistors are ruining the sound, please at least replace them with some power resistors which should also serve to protect your amp from the reactive nature of a transformer load (and the DC resistance of the stax transformer is around 1 ohm, so this is a concern).
  
 These are rated at 10 ohms each, used in parallel, so you'd want maybe a 5 ohm resistor in their place. The old SRD-7, fwiw, has a 4.7ohm thermistor in parallel with a 27ohm wirewound resistor. 
  
 Other than that, just keep in mind when building that most resistors are rated for maybe 350v, and in a Pro bias energizer the resistor on the bias line will be looking at 570v. Look for a resistor with a working voltage rating of 700v or 1kv for that position. Like Vishay HVR3700002204FR500.


----------



## yates7592

I'm avidly exploring the option of moving from HD800's to SR-009. After a lot of background reading and research the first practical step comes tomorrow when I'm going to a shop to audition the SR-009 amped by SRM-007tII (the only estat amp the shop has). I realise the 007tii is not the pinnacle of estat amps, so coming from a well amped HD800, I'm realistic enough not to expect to be blown away by the experience. Equally I want to remain positive about upgrading, and when/if I do it would be with either Carbon or BHSE.
 So I'm looking for people's thoughts on the 007-tii with the SR-009, what I should expect to hear out of the pairing, and what I should not expect to hear (compared to an end-game SR-009 set up). That way I won't be too disappointed and my journey will continue in the right direction!
 The audition is tomorrow, so any fast advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## astrostar59

yates7592 said:


> I'm avidly exploring the option of moving from HD800's to SR-009. After a lot of background reading and research the first practical step comes tomorrow when I'm going to a shop to audition the SR-009 amped by SRM-727tII (the only estat amp the shop has). I realise the 727tii is not the pinnacle of estat amps, so coming from a well amped HD800, I'm realistic enough not to expect to be blown away by the experience. Equally I want to remain positive about upgrading, and when/if I do it would be with either Carbon or BHSE.
> So I'm looking for people's thoughts on the 727-tii with the SR-009, what I should expect to hear out of the pairing, and what I should not expect to hear (compared to an end-game SR-009 set up). That way I won't be too disappointed and my journey will continue in the right direction!
> The audition is tomorrow, so any fast advice would be greatly appreciated.


 

 First off the 009 is an amazing headphone. Second it will sound to bright and thin with that amp.
  
 Buy the 009s but DON'T buy the amp. Then look for a Carbon or KGSShv or put down a repo for the BHSE (should be mid spring 2017 delivery). If you can't find a KGSShv or Carbon or wait for the BHSE the Eddie Current is quicker I think. Or source a used SRM-717 and wait for your BHSE.
  
 Otherwise you will do the selling and upgrading pain and not be happy till you get a decent amp. AIMO of course. Ask others on here.
  
 Do keep us posted on your progress. Don't rush the demo take your time. The detail rush can impress but thake that amp home and in 2 weeks you will be unhappy (I would be anyway).


----------



## nemomec

The combination SR-009 and SRM-727II sounds very poor to my ears, i think the SRM-007tII is a better choice. But all Stax amps (especially the SRM-T2) brings not the SR-009 on a serios and comparable level!


----------



## AnakChan

Personally I'm not so pessimistic. I had the SRM-727A for about 1.5 yrs before moving to something like the Electra. I would say that I enjoyed my time with my SR-009 throughout the time I owned the SRM-727A and even more so with the Electra. The SRM-727A didn't destroy my image of electrostats nor done any disservice to the SR-009.
  
 Of course by all means if one could start with the SR-009 and KGSSHv Carbon, or go straight to the BHSE, that's also fine. One doesn't have to go through the audio journey to appreciate the headphones.
  
 If I had started with the SR-007Mk1/2 with the SRM-727A or SRM-007tA, that's a slightly different story - at least in my opinion.


----------



## yates7592

@astrostar59- thanks for your advice.
 I have absolutely no intention of buying the Stax amp, but I'm constrained by what the shop can offer me for the trial. I've never heard SR-009 (or any estat headphones) before, so I'm very interested to get a flavour for how they sound. I won't even buy the 009's tomorrow, I will get the amp sorted first, but this is realistically my best hope of 2-3 hours with some of my favourite music and the 009's.
 "Too bright and thin" - sounds like HD800!  But I've read enough threads where many people have said the 009's are on another level compared to HD800, I just might well not see that for myself tomorrow with the 727tii.


----------



## Pokemonn

for me IMO auditioning gears at audio shops are little bit meaningless. They sound different from my homes sometimes.
 and you may not avoid to use EQ/tone controls of preamps.
 one of the biggest weird things of headphone amp world is they don't have tone controls!
 loudspeaker world use EQer/tone controls. i.e. insanely expensive TRINNOV audio EQ etc.
 even cheap marantz integrated amps have tone controls...


----------



## Ali-Pacha

My own experience :
 SRM-727 stock is a bit odd : a bit bloated bass, non linear, some harshness at high volume. Interesting for classical, but coloured.
 SRM-727 (as well as 717) modded is pretty decent (linearity, power, extension), but on the warm side of things. Think about a super SRM-1/mk2 Pro.
 BHSE is another league...at another price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My advice :
 - get a SRM-1/mk2 pro (with changed PS caps) for cheap ($350-400). The swiss army knife of Stax amps
 - you may upgrade for some modded 727 / 717 in the $ 1000-1500 range (used, of course), they're pretty nice as the end of the journey for SR-009
 - KGSS is said to be above 717 / modded 727, but it will be old headamp units or DIY (that can be very nice, think birgir-spritzer or geoff-headinclouds...think also JimL11)
 - KGSSHV is said to be above KGSS, but DIY as well, and it looks like there's variations in sound, because of different PS / components
 - KGSSHV carbon looks like another step up. In SQ and price. Still DIY
 - BHSE is said to be in the same league, but a bit more on the bright side of things + tube rolling + boutique amp with extreme waiting time (and last batch processing now)
 - T2 is still said to be the one to rule them all. But original Stax units have so-so PS, and heat may have toasted the PCB. DIY T2 is the ultimate DIY so far...unless you're looking at some new designs like grounded grid.
  
 Useful KG post :
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/17445#post_8174660
  
 Ali


----------



## PAM005

First post from a new Stax "mini" owner - SRS-002 in this thread. I think i'm gonna be addicted to the Stax sound already. Just listening to my Hugo electrostatic setup. Whoww, this mini sounds impressive, not as much slam as i used to hear with Audeze and Fostex TH-900, but airy, detailled, and easy enjoyable sound. Also comfort of this earphones aren't really bad. So for want to be Stax owners also, for pricing this SRS-002 set is really great...


----------



## yates7592

Apologies to those who already answered my query, I just checked my notes and the amp at the shop is the "SRM-007mk2" (tii?). Not sure if this makes a big difference either way compared to 727tii?


----------



## JimL11

The SRM007 Mk II is significantly better sounding than a stock 727.  You may want to read the reviews over on Inner Fidelity (The SR009 and Great amps reviews).  Also worthwhile is reading/listening to the Big Sound 2015 impressions of both the 007 and 009.  A couple of my friends have listened to my SR 007 MkII with port mod and feel it is tonally fairly comparable to a modded HD800.  Tyll Hertzens of Inner Fidelity compared a modded 007 Mk II and thought it slotted in tonally between a stock 007 an a stock 009, with the 007 being too dull, and the 000 being too bright.  This was on a KGSS.  YMMV.


----------



## ardacer

Umm.. so I got a stax 303 for free but all the foam up front got destroyed and terrible and went into the mesh, so I took it apart to clean it. I did Ok but I bent one dust cover (front side). So I have 2 questions, would it be better to straighten it up and reglue to the driver, or just flip the driver around 180 degrees and leave the unshielded side away from face and sweat? I know it wouldn work on normal drivers but electrostats should kind of produse the exact same sound on either side right? And also, anyone got any good idea for some replacment damping foam? Thanks


----------



## MacedonianHero

nemomec said:


> The combination SR-009 and SRM-727II sounds very poor to my ears, i think the SRM-007tII is a better choice. But all Stax amps (especially the SRM-T2) brings not the SR-009 on a serios and comparable level!


 
  
 I actually prefer the 727II over the SRM-007t...had better grip of the drivers. But the option I'd go with a starter SR009 amp is a spritzer modded SRM-727II...sounds really good with the SR-009s. Not KGSSHV good, but still very pleasing sound.


----------



## Pokemonn

SR-307/SR-407/SRS-2170/SRS-3170/SRS-4170/SRM-323Sは製造終了となりました。2016.5.30
http://www.stax.co.jp/index-J.html
  
 those products are officially discontinued.


----------



## ericj

First board fabbed up. Wire-for-wire drop in for the SRD-7, with SRD-7 Mk2 circuit. Pro bias pad is off by itself, to be nearest the left hand socket. 
  
 I think the pitting is because my printer is old and decrepit and doesn't print very dark anymore.


----------



## martyn73

Is it really true that the SRM-717 sounds better than a stock SRM-727II?


----------



## astrostar59

martyn73 said:


> Is it really true that the SRM-717 sounds better than a stock SRM-727II?


 

 Yes, it has a different feedback circuit. They killed the 727 by messing with that. If you want a detailed description ask over at the other place.
  
 Basically I would say get a used 717 rather than a new 727 or used 727. Get a KGSShv to better (much better) that. Get a Carbon to better that, get a BHSE to maybe better that.
  
 Hope that helps.


----------



## purk

martyn73 said:


> Is it really true that the SRM-717 sounds better than a stock SRM-727II?


 
 The stock 727II/727A was quite a disappointment for me with extremely flabby bass response as well as unusually dark tonality.  There is no tightness in the bass region what-so-ever when I paired it up with the SR009.  The 717 is considerably better but can't really compete with the KGST or even the KGSSHV.


----------



## yates7592

Are there any reviews around of the SRM-717?
And any thoughts on SRM-717 vs SRM-007 Tii Kimik?


----------



## Pokemonn

yates7592 said:


> And any thoughts on SRM-717 vs SRM-007 Tii Kimik?


 
 717 = polite solid state sound, slightly dark compare to 727 and 007t
 007t = tube lush organic yummy sound, less air and resolution compare to 717


----------



## astrostar59

yates7592 said:


> Are there any reviews around of the SRM-717?
> And any thoughts on SRM-717 vs SRM-007 Tii Kimik?


 

 There are lots of posts over at the other place and on here about the 717. i had the 717 for 2 years and it IS bester than any other Stax amp currently sold new IMO. 
  
 However, having said that, the 717 is still a bit edgy and bright in the treble with the 009s, not because it has a treble lift, but because the quality of the amp is not so great overall. I would not recommend a Stax amp to be honest. It didn't know how good the 009 and 007A was until I got a KGSShv. With that amp I got wider soundstage, real bass power and texture, tight control of the bass, smooth treble and great midrange realism. Just everything got better, it was not subtle.
  
 Going back it sounded thin, flat, 2D and not realistic. The new price for a 727 is close to a new DIY KGSShv. It is a no brainer as they say.
  
 Try and find an Eddie Current, KGSShv or even the LL2. You won't be satisfied otherwise (all IMO).


----------



## Pokemonn

why doesn't the hello kitty have a mouth??
 and why the hell Stax hesitate to release T2 successor?? annoying...lol


----------



## astrostar59

pokemonn said:


> and why the hell Stax hesitate to release T2 successor?? annoying...lol


 
 I am thinking it is the reliability issue of a more powerful amplifier, remember the T2 was a commercial disaster for the company, the development and complexibility of the design and manufacture, the failure rate.
  
 The heat dissipation is an issue if it is a one box. The general public are probably not keen on a 2 box amplifier design. Also not keen on expensive EL34 NOS tubes and general tube replacements. It is a niche market. The current Stax tube amplifiers are using very long life and low maintenance tubes so almost 'invisible' tube amps TBH.
  
 The other thing that is completely theory, is the imbalance issue of the 009 and sometimes the 007 on non Stax amplifiers. The higher level amplifiers do have more current and voltage swing, so 'possibly' it pushes the drivers harder.
  
  
 All IMO as always. Please others chine in.


----------



## paradoxper

Stax doesn't have a T2 successor.


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> Stax doesn't have a T2 successor.


 
 I my point is I don't think they ever will, that is unless they get sufficiently rattled by the HE1. Though that is a different market / niche product.


----------



## yates7592

Well I got about 2.5 hours in the shop yesterday, with SR-009 fed by SRM-007 Tii (Kimik) and a Naim DAC/server combo using Transparent RCA cables (I was surprised at RCA cables for some reason, balanced is the norm for Stax - had to crank the volume somewhat to between 6 and 8 depending on the track).
 Anyway the sound - there aren’t enough expletives to express how utterly impressed I was by the SR-009.  Even with the less than stellar amp, I felt the sound was the best I had ever heard on cans, and not by a small margin.  I took along a lot of my familiar music and whilst no direct A/B was possible at the time, based on my recent memory of HD800 and Abyss, SR-009 is easily on another level to both. I love the HD800, but SR-009 really does sound like a properly fixed HD800 – mids and treble to die for, no nasty 6kHz peak, better bass, just everything, and no EQ needed!  The frequency response was just perfectly integrated across the board. Yes soundstage is narrower than HD800 on some tracks, but equally not on others.  This tends to confirm my belief that the HD800 soundstage is over-exaggerated, as some have commented, a kind of 'letterbox' presentation.  After some time in the shop the limitations of the SRM-007 Tii amp gradually became apparent to me so it is really exciting to think that KGSSHV Carbon would likely take these headphones up a further notch or two.


----------



## Pokemonn

yates7592 said:


> I love the HD800, but SR-009 really does sound like a properly fixed HD800 – mids and treble to die for, no nasty 6kHz peak, better bass, just everything, and *no EQ needed*!


 
 it depend on your age...


----------



## mulveling

pokemonn said:


> it depend on your age...


 
  
 Thanks for the depressing chart bro -- just below that 35 line. Sadness now grips my heart. I guess I hope that the future SR-012 is significantly brighter than the SR-009


----------



## comzee

mulveling said:


> Thanks for the depressing chart bro -- just below that 35 line. Sadness now grips my heart. I guess I hope that the future SR-012 is significantly brighter than the SR-009


 
 Looks worse than it is, most music doesn't go up to the frequencies that really are effected with older age.


----------



## arnaud

Also, I think this is just a drop in hearing threshold, I am not sure it's that bad for realistic listening levels... Worse case scenario, you may be investing in louder gear as years go by to make sure you still can hear the cymbals in all their splendor


----------



## Broo0d

How does the stax 3100 compared to 2170?
  
 I have purchased 2170 from ebay then the seller did a refund and say it is not available on stock.


----------



## JimL11

pokemonn said:


> it depend on your age...


 

 No, that's a fallacy.  Your brain adapts, just like if you wear sunglasses all day everything starts to look natural - until you take the glasses off.  If your hearing rolls off at high frequencies, the decreased highs sound natural because that's what you hear ALL THE TIME.  So if you EQ back to "flat" it will sound too bright, because compared to what you hear with your "bare" ears, it IS too bright.


----------



## Pokemonn

is wear a hearing aid a fallacy? i don't think so...


----------



## JK-47

broo0d said:


> How does the stax 3100 compared to 2170?
> 
> I have purchased 2170 from ebay then the seller did a refund and say it is not available on stock.




Z reviews YouTube video did number on the available stock in Japan. Not to mention they have been discontinued. They were still listed on price Japan yesterday for $505 shipped EMS to the states.


----------



## Broo0d

jk-47 said:


> Z reviews YouTube video did number on the available stock in Japan. Not to mention they have been discontinued. They were still listed on price Japan yesterday for $505 shipped EMS to the states.



Price Japan don't have it in stock either.


----------



## zolkis

jiml11 said:


> Your brain adapts, just like if you wear sunglasses all day everything starts to look natural - until you take the glasses off.  If your hearing rolls off at high frequencies, the decreased highs sound natural because that's what you hear ALL THE TIME.  So if you EQ back to "flat" it will sound too bright, because compared to what you hear with your "bare" ears, it IS too bright.


 
  
 I agree with this. I have a friend with hearing sadly decreasing over time (following a virus infection, escalating into more problems), but he was still better at telling good sound apart, things I (with better hearing) didn't notice until given clues. Training matters. Also, it seems that (apart from really bad cases) that decreasing hearing is not really an obstacle in enjoying music - you may need different equipment, but music stays music, and our brain does wonders in adapting.


----------



## astrostar59

zolkis said:


> I agree with this. I have a friend with hearing sadly decreasing over time (following a virus infection, escalating into more problems), but he was still better at telling good sound apart, things I (with better hearing) didn't notice until given clues. Training matters. Also, it seems that (apart from really bad cases) that decreasing hearing is not really an obstacle in enjoying music - you may need different equipment, but music stays music, and our brain does wonders in adapting.


 
 Yes I agree. And there is 'audiophile' hearing aids. I never knew this until my father - in - law got some. They are custom fitted to the ear and supposed to be full frequency band, so not the squaky crap the hospital supply. Not cheap mind.
  
 On this vein, I was visiting my mother in the care home (private) and walking between room it spotted an old guy with a valve tuner/amp and a Stax headphone amp with 009s hooked up. YES, I thought, that would be me when I am 80+


----------



## PAM005

Stax SRM-002 with Mojo even looks better as with Hugo...


----------



## JimL11

pokemonn said:


> is wear a hearing aid a fallacy? i don't think so...


 

 Sorry, I should have been more specific.  Yes, hearing tends to decline as we grow older, particularly at higher frequencies.  But that does not mean that we need to compensate by boosting the high frequencies - that is the fallacy.  A natural sound balance from headphones will continue to sound natural because that's what we hear in real life.


----------



## ikkx

jk-47 said:


> Z reviews YouTube video did number on the available stock in Japan. Not to mention they have been discontinued. They were still listed on price Japan yesterday for $505 shipped EMS to the states.


 
 how good are the actual Stax SRS-2170 headphones? zeo tends to go a bit nutty on his reviews and shouldn't be taken too seriously


----------



## Sahara

I write this here. I, ve open a new thread but no good luck with my dudes and after reading a lot I have still a question which I' d like to resolve:
  
 I, ve decided to reterminate my HE-60 with Stax plug and sell the HEV70...I do not plan to sell my HE60 because they are fantastic and I'm very happy with them. Along with my SR-009 and 4070 they form a perfect trio.
  
 I ordered a Stax male & female plugs and my purpose is to cut the original cable approximately 20cm (8 inches) before the connector and place there the female plug, while on the other side put the male connector 
  
 Is absolutely necessary to put a 5 ohm resistor before the Stax plug or there is risk of damage for the headphones if I don't put it?
  
 Thanks


----------



## JK-47

ikkx said:


> how good are the actual Stax SRS-2170 headphones? zeo tends to go a bit nutty on his reviews and shouldn't be taken too seriously




Yes, he does go over the top with most of his reviews. Like it or not, he does have quite the following, and after his video was posted, all the lower priced SR-2170 systems were snapped up fast. 

On one of the the other sites, they claim the SR-207 headphone are used in a few pro studios, because of the more neutral presentation compared to their more expensive Stax siblings.


----------



## potkettleblack

Understand that it would be a hard question to answer, but does anyone know of an improvement in the failure rates for the SR009, specifically the channel imbalances?

Did Stax ever release a public statement about the issues that were happening?


----------



## astrostar59

potkettleblack said:


> Understand that it would be a hard question to answer, but does anyone know of an improvement in the failure rates for the SR009, specifically the channel imbalances?
> 
> Did Stax ever release a public statement about the issues that were happening?


 

 That is never going top happen. As regards failure rates, the only numbers are those posting on here or at dealer repair centres. Dealers don't want to shout about it, neither do Stax, so kinda a dead end street.
  
 TBH I have also had this issue with my 009s and got them repaired under warranty. I have no idea what caused it, but is was 22 months in from purchase.
 My only thought was I used to leave the amp on all the time with the phones plugged in. I have no idea if that was the issue.
  
 It would be most useful if someone could get hold of the damaged drivers of their own imbalanced headphone, and have a techie take it apart.
  
 So it's a mystery IMO. To stop the drama, I think there are maybe 5% failures? That is off the top of my head and based on the posts I have read and serial numbers (units sold). I don't think Stax is alone though, I have heard the LCD range have more problems and some owners have gone through 3 sets. I know of nobody with the 009 who has had it happen twice. I am hoping I haven't encouraged fate there....


----------



## yates7592

I remember reading somewhere that channel imbalance and other such problems were more likely if SR009 was purchased from Price Japan and other such "grey" websites. Is this borne out through experience here on Head-Fi?


----------



## astrostar59

yates7592 said:


> I remember reading somewhere that channel imbalance and other such problems were more likely if SR009 was purchased from Price Japan and other such "grey" websites. Is this borne out through experience here on Head-Fi?


 

 Not buying into that. I got my 009s from a registered dealer and they had the issue. My 007As came from PJ and so far no issue (thought different drivers to the 009s).


----------



## potkettleblack

yates7592 said:


> I remember reading somewhere that channel imbalance and other such problems were more likely if SR009 was purchased from Price Japan and other such "grey" websites. Is this borne out through experience here on Head-Fi?


Yes it's been mentioned on here a few times - some saying it was more likely and the risk would not be worth it, and to just get from your local Hifi dealer instead. I just wanted some kind of an update as to wether or not the situation has improved in general?


----------



## joseph69

yates7592 said:


> I remember reading somewhere that channel imbalance and other such problems were more likely if SR009 was purchased from Price Japan and other such "grey" websites. Is this borne out through experience here on Head-Fi?


 
 I purchased two pairs of 009's and one pair of 007A from PJ with no issues at all.


----------



## yates7592

Thanks. Do you know if Stax has solved or addressed the issue and the rate of failures is stalling, or is this just an ever-ongoing problem?


----------



## joseph69

yates7592 said:


> Thanks. Do you know if Stax has solved or addressed the issue and the rate of failures is stalling, or is this just an ever-ongoing problem?


 
 I have no idea, as I have just gotten into the world of electrostatic HP's and these were my only purchases. I currently own one 009…I sold my first 009 and 007A to another H-F member who I am in touch with and he has had no issues either. Every product *no matter what it is* have their issues sometimes, so I wouldn't sweat it.
  
 EDIT: Look (HERE) as well…see what I mean?


----------



## potkettleblack

joseph69 said:


> I have no idea, as I have just gotten into the world of electrostatic HP's and these were my only purchases. I currently own one 009…I sold my first 009 and 007A to another H-F member who I am in touch with and he has had no issues either. Every product *no matter what it is* have their issues sometimes, so I wouldn't sweat it.
> 
> EDIT: Look [COLOR=FF0000](HERE)[/COLOR] as well…see what I mean?


Oh god - I knew I shouldn't have asked this question. 

'What are you talking about?!? All headphones have issues!'

'My baby doesn't have issues!' 

*protectively hugs 009*

I'm sure everyone is aware of the LCD 3, Jospeh. I'm also not trying to say price Japan is riddled with faulty gear - I just remember when this topic came up last time that most suggested to get them from your dealer instead PJ.

I'm glad you and your friend have had no issues. And everyone else on the forum for that matter. But I know the 009 has issues and the 007 has far less - most of the 009 issues happening in the first 6 months. The question was just an equiry as to wether or not anyone has heard anything recently, or if Stax has made some form of a reassuring statement.

I was actually told by somebody on here who has a lot of experience with the 009 that roughly half he's dealt with have had an imbalance.


----------



## astrostar59

> I was actually told by somebody on here who has a lot of experience with the 009 that roughly half he's dealt with have had an imbalance.


 
 Please can you expand? Who, and what cases. Half? I don't believe it, unless he works at a repair shop.


----------



## joseph69

potkettleblack said:


> Oh god - I knew I shouldn't have asked this question.
> 
> 'What are you talking about?!? All headphones have issues!'
> 
> ...


 
 Why are you panicking? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 What do you mean you shouldn't have asked this question?
 What do you mean what am I talking about?
 I was talking about not having issues with purchases from PJ…thats all.
  
 I also don't care what it is that is manufactured (not just HP's)…things can/do have issues, thats all I'm saying.


----------



## paradoxper

There is no answer any of us could give that would be satisfactory.


----------



## potkettleblack

astrostar59 said:


> Please can you expand? Who, and what cases. Half? I don't believe it, unless he works at a repair shop.


You don't have to believe it mate, or really care. I have no reason to lie and neither does he (I think/hope).

I asked him the question after seeing this:

http://www.soundbsessive.com/horror-report-stax-sr-009/


----------



## potkettleblack

paradoxper said:


> There is no answer any of us could give that would be satisfactory.


False. If it's a yes from you, paradoxper - if you could let me know how recently the report was, that would be great. If you've heard nothing recently, or a long while, that would also be great.

Satisfied.


----------



## paradoxper

potkettleblack said:


> False. If it's a yes from you, paradoxper - if you could let me know how recently the report was, that would be great. If you've heard nothing recently, or a long while, that would also be great.
> 
> Satisfied.


 
 What report. Stax has never ever issued a report. Come on.


----------



## potkettleblack

paradoxper said:


> What report. Stax has never ever issued a report. Come on.


Oh praise the baby Jesus. Not official report. A report from a user saying theirs had failed/developed an imbalance.


----------



## astrostar59

astrostar59 said:


> Please can you expand? Who, and what cases. Half? I don't believe it, unless he works at a repair shop.


 

 One case, not hundreds....


----------



## paradoxper

potkettleblack said:


> Oh praise the baby Jesus. Not official report. A report from a user saying theirs had failed/developed an imbalance.


 
 Why would that ******* matter? You dismissed Joseph sharing his 009 experience. Why would another imbalance report give you calm. You clearly stated how you knew the 009
 had issue. 
  
 Hence why only an official report documenting failure rates, successes from Stax would give you satisfaction.


----------



## potkettleblack

astrostar59 said:


> One case, not hundreds....


Oh my goodness. Why are people so defensive? It's not an isolated case - the person that told is a respected user. 

Look, maybe forget about being protective and I'll accept your answer as 'no I haven't heard anything Mr Potkettleblack'.

Sorted


----------



## mulveling

If you're afraid of the big bad scary 009 don't buy one; nobody's forcing you. I remain a *huge* fan of this product. When someone claims up to half are defective -- BS. Sure, Sennheiser almost certainly has a lower rate of defects in their HD800, and electrostats are more finicky/delicate in nature. And yeah, I'm upset that astrostar had a defect in his; he's a good guy and that could happen to mine too. But the Senns absolutely don't sound as good, so Stax 009 are my thing even with the slightly higher risk. If you need one headphone to enjoy in your padded room for the next 40 years, then the Senns may be more your game.


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


>


 

 Maybe it would be easier to buy these. You can rap and box in these so they MUST be robust.


----------



## potkettleblack

I accepted his response but, as you and others have reacted the same way, I wanted to be clear that I wasn't just here to bad mouth the 009 and was genuinely curious as I am a fan of the headphones.

You have google at your finger tips. Type in 'sr009 channel imbalance' into Google and get stuck into your microwave dinner while you read. There isn't just one case. And the person I spoke to did see imbalances in his work shop. A lot of them.


----------



## potkettleblack

astrostar59 said:


> Maybe it would be easier to buy these. You can rap and box in these so they MUST be robust.


Nah I'm good thanks. I might just buy the 009 for Netflix and playing battlefield.

You're from the UK. Maybe I could teach you how to box in your Dre Beats.


----------



## bearFNF

LOL it's a slow day I guess.


----------



## paradoxper

potkettleblack said:


> I accepted his response but, as you and others have reacted the same way, I wanted to be clear that I wasn't just here to bad mouth the 009 and was genuinely curious as I am a fan of the headphones.
> 
> You have google at your finger tips. Type in 'sr009 channel imbalance' into Google and get stuck into your microwave dinner while you read. There isn't just one case. And the person I spoke to did see imbalances in his work shop. A lot of them.


 
 This thread has discussed the imbalance issue, the imbalance thread, so yes, there are multiple cases. That wasn't disputed.
  
 And you'd be aware that Astro reported his 009 issues, in the ******* imbalance thread. That is, uh, recent. Like you asked.
  
 Again, goes back to no answers can be given to you or any one else that may have such trepidation regarding the 009 if it isn't from Stax.


----------



## potkettleblack

mulveling said:


> If you're afraid of the big bad scary 009 don't buy one; nobody's forcing you. I remain a *huge* fan of this product. When someone claims up to half are defective -- BS. Sure, Sennheiser almost certainly has a lower rate of defects in their HD800, and electrostats are more finicky/delicate in nature. And yeah, I'm upset that astrostar had a defect in his; he's a good guy and that could happen to mine too. But the Senns absolutely don't sound as good, so Stax 009 are my thing even with the slightly higher risk. If you need one headphone to enjoy in your padded room for the next 40 years, then the Senns may be more your game.


I'm just not too hot on buying something with a known issue. No need to take my query to the extreme and assert that I'm a quivering mess worrying about this possibility. I use my 846's for Zumba; I live on the edge; no padded cells here, popeye.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Stax thread used to be informative. A long time ago. Now just popcorn time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ali


----------



## astrostar59

potkettleblack said:


> Nah I'm good thanks. I might just buy the 009 for Netflix and playing battlefield.
> 
> You're from the UK. Maybe I could teach you how to box in your Dre Beats.


 

 Hey that sounds sexy. Seriously lets get back to basics. I had a pair of 009s go wrong and it got repaired under warranty. I have mates who have had their 009s for 6 years almost since it was launched and had no issues. Most of the problems I have heard about pop up inside 6 months, maybe less.
  
 I have not heard of anyone having 2 cases of the same imbalance, so unlike LCDs who have cases of 2 or 3 failures on the same headphone.
  
 I would not buy from PJ if you are getting the 009s, but would buy from them if you are getting the 007s. 
  
 Cars break down, computers crash, bulbs blow, lifts get stuck, cameras get jammed, bikes wear out. It is life. I think the 009 is worth the 'risk' It sounds so damb good. It is a risk getting on a plane but we do it because we want that holiday in the sun. You want the sound right? Then just buy the suckers, you will thank me after.
  
 Case closed. Next.


----------



## potkettleblack

Thanks. Do you know if this is a member of headfi:

https://youtu.be/NoslWFLt6Es


----------



## 3X0

Is that a Wee I see?
  
 Didn't Birgir mention something about some Wees having messed-up bias supplies that could destroy the diaphragms?


----------



## astrostar59

3x0 said:


> Is that a Wee I see?
> 
> Didn't Birgir mention something about some Wees having messed-up bias supplies that could destroy the diaphragms?


 

 Yes you are correct, you old eagle eye you...


----------



## arnaud

MrFumier, now that's not ironic in the least... Mr manure is what it reads to my french eyes lol. Probably an account to stir s...t hahaha.

More seriously, I'd steer clear from the wee associated with 150W amp and I would put more trust into the many experiences read on this site than a random website (from a disgruntled distributor or reseller maybe? Someone stopping to sell stax and wanting some help  ? )

Arnaud

Ps: seems like a regular bloke who's behind the website (http://www.head-fi.org/u/45778/antonyfirst), I guess this is one of those sensational titles to attract audiences


----------



## VandyMan

potkettleblack said:


> I was actually told by somebody on here who has a lot of experience with the 009 that roughly half he's dealt with have had an imbalance.


 
  
 There is zero chance that the rate of this problem is 50%. There are at least a dozen of us here who have purchased the 009 in the last few years. There are hardly any reports of channel imbalance problems on Head Fi in the last couple years. astrostar59's issue developed after owning his 009s for nearly two years. That is totally atypical in how the issue has been reported in the past, so it seems likely that his headphones developed an unrelated channel imbalance issue, as can happen with any headphone.


----------



## ikkx

jk-47 said:


> Yes, he does go over the top with most of his reviews. Like it or not, he does have quite the following, and after his video was posted, all the lower priced SR-2170 systems were snapped up fast.
> 
> On one of the the other sites, they claim the SR-207 headphone are used in a few pro studios, because of the more neutral presentation compared to their more expensive Stax siblings.


 
 so how good are they? compared to >$60 headphones out there


----------



## JimL11

martyn73 said:


> I too tried the Nezzar amp with my SR-007A and it sounded much better than the SRM-006t and SRM-323S, both of which I have recently sold. The Nazzar amp provided much better bass extension without the appalling treble response of the SRM-323S. The Nezzar's sound can be characterised as sweet, powerful and well suited to a variety of genres. Whereas the SRM-007tII may lose composure at higher volume levels, the Nezzar amp remains tightly focused and acts like a SRM-727II without the treble glare which can be ruinous for female vocalists. All this is subjective, but I miss the Nezzar. A factor which influenced my decision to try the Nezzar was that the 4 triodes can be replaced without rebiasing - Stax take note. Apparently the current versions have three sockets so an electrostatic threesome is possible!
> 
> Despite being entirely triode powered electronic music is no obstacle. Sadly hearing loss means high end headphones are no longer relevant to me, so my SR-007A will be sold soon.


 

 Thanks to martyn73's ad for the Nebuchadnezzar for showing the internals of this amp.  As best I can tell based on the photo, it appears to be similar in topology to the Gilmore all triode stat amp, which is also the basis for the Woo GES.  The 6N17B dual triodes are similar in performance to the 12AX7s in the Gilmore design, and the output stage uses the same output tube and the identical output resistor load as the Gilmore, so I would expect the performance should be very similar.


----------



## Quixote79

Originally Posted by *Quixote79* 


  


astrostar59 said:


> That is never going top happen. As regards failure rates, the only numbers are those posting on here or at dealer repair centres. Dealers don't want to shout about it, neither do Stax, so kinda a dead end street.
> 
> TBH I have also had this issue with my 009s and got them repaired under warranty. I have no idea what caused it, but is was 22 months in from purchase.
> My only thought was I used to leave the amp on all the time with the phones plugged in. I have no idea if that was the issue.
> ...


 
  
  


vandyman said:


> There is zero chance that the rate of this problem is 50%. There are at least a dozen of us here who have purchased the 009 in the last few years. There are hardly any reports of channel imbalance problems on Head Fi in the last couple years. astrostar59's issue developed after owning his 009s for nearly two years. That is totally atypical in how the issue has been reported in the past, so it seems likely that his headphones developed an unrelated channel imbalance issue, as can happen with any headphone.


 
  
 might be that *astrostar59* kgsshv built by headincluds is damaging to the phone as the wee is ... only explanation really


----------



## astrostar59

> might be that *astrostar59* kgsshv built by headincluds is damaging to the phone as the wee is ... only explanation really


 
 Rubbish and untrue. I have used my 009 with a Stax 717 as much as the KGSShv as I have a spare amp for when I am not at home.
  
 I have used my 007As 2015 model with both amps and had no problems.
  
 Actually the bias is more accurate on the KGSShv than the 717 amp.
  
 Also read the posts on the imbalance thread, there are many owners who have used Stax amps with the 009 and it has still failed.


----------



## Michgelsen

ikkx said:


> so how good are they? compared to >$60 headphones out there


 
  
 Stax 207 and 202 with the small amp are both better than the Sennheiser HD800 in my opinion. They are, to me, the best bang for the buck in the audio world if you can get them for €500, for example from Japan.


----------



## Quixote79

astrostar59 said:


> Rubbish and untrue. I have used my 009 with a Stax 717 as much as the KGSShv as I have a spare amp for when I am not at home.
> 
> I have used my 007As 2015 model with both amps and had no problems.
> 
> ...


 

*VandyMan *points to your imbalance has other cause since it developed over almost two years. also you have not had your 007 for two years yet so you cannot say it is just rubbish.


----------



## astrostar59

quixote79 said:


> *VandyMan *points to your imbalance has other cause since it developed over almost two years. also you have not had your 007 for two years yet so you cannot say it is just rubbish.


 

 My point (and nobody knows as nothing is coming back from Stax) is the cause and visible damage. It needs an autopsy to know. It could be ants, static, heat, or simply a failure due to manufacture. Many electrostatic speaker manufactures such as Quad and Martin Login have also had problems for various reasons.
  
 My view is if there was an amp related reason for the failure, it would make sense it happened earlier rather than later to me.
  
 This question may never be resolved, and as I say there are failures with only Stax amps on the 009s, so to me there is a recurring issue albeit in limited numbers.
  
 Mine never had any distortion, no high pitched squeal like that video, no static noise. They just lost output level on one side. This seems to be the main symptom everyone posting here has experienced.
  
 I would personally buy the 009s again, they are that good IMO. Washing machine fail inside warranty and I don't now hand wash everything....


----------



## Quixote79

astrostar59 said:


> My point (and nobody knows as nothing is coming back from Stax) is the cause and visible damage. It needs an autopsy to know. It could be ants, static, heat, or simply a failure due to manufacture. Many electrostatic speaker manufactures such as Quad and Martin Login have also had problems for various reasons.
> 
> My view is if there was an amp related reason for the failure, it would make sense it happened earlier rather than later to me.
> 
> ...


 

 could be your amp develop a failure over time but it should not stop you from washing hands - imo it is taking it too far


----------



## AnakChan

The issue of the Stax channel imbalance is not limited to only those who drive their headphones with 3rd party amps. The's been at least one case I know of someone whose brand new SR-009 developed the channel imbalance off the SRM-323A. The percentage of Stax headphones developing channel imbalance is not known.


----------



## paradoxper

anakchan said:


> The issue of the Stax channel imbalance is not limited to only those who drive their headphones with 3rd party amps. The's been at least one case I know of someone whose brand new SR-009 developed the channel imbalance off the SRM-323A. The percentage of Stax headphones developing channel imbalance is not known.


 
 And just how many 007 (other Stax favorite) imbalances? Regardless of the amps used. Yea...


----------



## Quixote79

paradoxper said:


> And just how many 007 (other Stax favorite) imbalances? Regardless of the amps used. Yea...


 

 your point being that the 007 does not develop imbalance or only very rarely regardles od amp used?


----------



## astrostar59

quixote79 said:


> your point being that the 007 does not develop imbalance or only very rarely regardles od amp used?


 

 Yes as far as I can see re postings over the years. There are cases though.


----------



## paradoxper

quixote79 said:


> your point being that the 007 does not develop imbalance or only very rarely regardles od amp used?


 
 It's not the amplifier as your aspersions eloquently imply.


----------



## Quixote79

paradoxper said:


> It's not the amplifier as your aspersions eloquently imply.


 

 what is the matter with the woo wee then?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I still don't understand the point there.
  
 Yup, imbalance (as sh**) happens, 009, vintage, Lambda, 007, whatever...that's the very nature of e-stats. You want to be absolutetly sure you won't eve be struck by that ? Go elsewhere, that simple.
 Yup, some gears have crappy bias supply, and they're obviouysly NOT Stax amps. This is overdocumented all over the interweb, so read the stuff about it, and make what you think is the good choice.
  
 BTW, what's new about Stax today ?

 Ali


----------



## VandyMan

quixote79 said:


> *VandyMan *points to your imbalance has other cause since it developed over almost two years. also you have not had your 007 for two years yet so you cannot say it is just rubbish.


 

 To be clear, I said that based on several posts in this topic where more knowledgeable people that said the imbalance issues tends to develop with the first couple months.

 I was concerned about it when I was trying to decide if I should go with Price Japan or STAX USA for my purchase. STAX USA had a sale, settling the issue for me. In retrospect, I'd probably go with Price Japan, but it is important to understand that there is always a risk of warranty issues when making grey market purchases.


----------



## jgazal

quixote79 said:


> what is the matter with the woo wee then?




1. If mains voltage fluctuates, does the diaphragm bias supply fluctuates accordingly?
2. Is there a way to regulate the diaphragm bias supply voltage so it won't change regardless mains voltage fluctuation?
3. Is it possible to limit the current flow from the diaphragm bias supply to the diaphragm?
4. Suppose you have a source or source/preamp with a maximum line output voltage and dc peak: what is the hvlc amplifier maximum gain in order to avoid reaching the stator to stator voltage breakdown limit?
5. Now suppose you have a source/potentiometer/LVHC amplifier or a source/preamp/LVHC amplifier with a maximum output power and dc peak: what is lvhc to hvlc transformer maximum ratio in order to avoid the stator to stator voltage breakdown?
6. What are failure modes?
7. What is the failure mode number n-1 if the diaphragm is not voltage regulated neither current limited?
8. What is the failure mode number n if the diaphragm is not voltage regulated neither current limited
and the transformer has a inadequate higher ratio?
9. Are the components of your chain designed to avoid n-1 and n failure modes?
10. If you were an electrostatic transducer manufacturer, would you recommend using third party components knowing that you cannot enforce designs (or user choice of components) in order to avoid failure modes n and n-1?

Lvhc - low voltage high current
Hvlc - high voltage low current


----------



## Quixote79

jgazal said:


> 1. If mains voltage fluctuates, does the diaphragm bias supply fluctuates accordingly?
> 2. Is there a way to regulate the diaphragm bias supply voltage so it won't change regardless mains voltage fluctuation?
> 3. Is it possible to limit the current flow from the diaphragm bias supply to the diaphragm?
> 4. Suppose you have a source or source/preamp with a maximum line output voltage and dc peak: what is the hvlc amplifier maximum gain in order to avoid reaching the stator to stator voltage breakdown limit?
> ...


 

 lots of questions?? what are you trying to say?


----------



## jgazal

I am not trying to say anything, I am trying to understand. A friend has alerted me about some inconsistences in my questions. I was considering to delete my post, but since you quoted I will let it as it is. 
Sometimes I post things I regret, but that's life. Spoken words fly away, written words remain...


----------



## JimL11

quixote79 said:


> what is the matter with the woo wee then?


 

 No personal experience, but according to a post on the other site by spritzer, at least one of them was built without a ballast resistor (typically 5 megohms) to protect the diaphragm from being fried if the bias supply caps accidentally discharge into it.  Bad ju ju!


----------



## sensui123

So much drama in the stax circle lol. I'm just glad to be on the train now. After the 007 mk1 I don't miss the Audeze stuff I've bit. Just wish paradoxper turned me onto this sooner... Memories when we discussed schiit gear once upon a time. Just missing my bhse now to complete the experience.


----------



## Quixote79

jiml11 said:


> No personal experience, but according to a post on the other site by spritzer, at least one of them was built without a ballast resistor (typically 5 megohms) to protect the diaphragm from being fried if the bias supply caps accidentally discharge into it.  Bad ju ju!


 

 why in heavens name should someone omit a resistor in a design if it protect the headphone????


----------



## astrostar59

quixote79 said:


> why in heavens name should someone omit a resistor in a design if it protect the headphone????


 
 Because maybe they don't know what they are doing?


----------



## ericj

astrostar59 said:


> Because maybe they don't know what they are doing?


 
 maybe they think their ears are the most sensitive measurement devices in the universe and deemed it to sound better? 
  
 (human perception is a rubber meter stick)


----------



## ardacer

Hi guys, I have a 313 amp and a 303 headphones which i plan to mod a lot, and I also plan to buy a l700..
313 would drive these until I can get something better, but all the better energizers are damn expensive.. I'm really good with soldering iron and I've made pcb's at home with uv light before, so the question is: I've seen some folks diy some of the better amps for stax, are these designs publically available?


----------



## astrostar59

*Imbalance collated data*
  

 I decided to collate the reports in the long 009 imbalance thread to see how the numbers of cases was related to dates. My own 009s failed recently and I am the only one I can report for 2016 so far. Bear in mind some of the mainstream 009 buyers who go to dealers may not post on here. Also there is a healthy Chinese thread with more cases. I read a few times the estimated sales per year of the 009 is roughly 500. If we say there are 23 cases reported on here, and say 30 elsewhere, we come to a figure of 53. So 500 x 5 years sales = 2,500 which makes 53 failures a rate of 2%. That sound pretty good IMO. Even if it hits 5% it is still ok? A lot lower I imagine than LCD.
  
 The good news is it 'looks' as though the failure rate is going down, thus Stax may have solved most of the issues. The other point is most of the failures happened inside 3 weeks of use. A few inside 6 months. My recent failure is strangely at 23 months.
  
 Interestingly the split between Stax amp users and DIY is roughly 50/50. Though I would say more failures not reported here are probably on Stax amps as most DIY'ers post here a lot for advice and parts.
  
 Hope this helps some of you make up your mind as to wether to quit the Stax world or press on and buy the 009s.


----------



## potkettleblack

Hell of a contribution to the thread, thank you.

'More than what you contribute, Potkettleblack' mutters everyone else on the thread.


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> *Imbalance collated data*
> 
> 
> I decided to collate the reports in the long 009 imbalance thread to see how the numbers of cases was related to dates. My own 009s failed recently and I am the only one I can report for 2016 so far. Bear in mind some of the mainstream 009 buyers who go to dealers may not post on here. Also there is a healthy Chinese thread with more cases. I read a few times the estimated sales per year of the 009 is roughly 500. If we say there are 23 cases reported on here, and say 30 elsewhere, we come to a figure of 53. So 500 x 5 years sales = 2,500 which makes 53 failures a rate of 2%. That sound pretty good IMO. Even if it hits 5% it is still ok? A lot lower I imagine than LCD.
> ...


 
 nice job ;o)
  
 However, where do you get the approx 500/year of 009 sales?
 I have seen pairs of 007, SZ3  ~ 1400 bought five years ago, and some more recent SZ3 ~2000
 so give an take ~600 in four years + domestic ...say 800 in total ...200/year ...and the 009's sells 2½ as many??  so, where did you get the 500/year from?


----------



## arnaud

soren_brix said:


> nice job ;o)
> 
> However, where do you get the approx 500/year of 009 sales?




I recall from stax interview at sr009 launch that they mentionned about 20 pairs a month maximum at start. My mind is fuzzy on this but I recall the stax interview we did on site where they clarified they could then do more than 20 pairs a month (did not say how many) and still could not keep the shelves full. 

40 pairs a month is a reasonable figure imo. At least at peak of sales, it's gotta be tapering off by now though.

Arnaud


----------



## ericj

Revised boards nearly ready for etching.


----------



## astrostar59

arnaud said:


> I recall from stax interview at sr009 launch that they mentionned about 20 pairs a month maximum at start. My mind is fuzzy on this but I recall the stax interview we did on site where they clarified they could then do more than 20 pairs a month (did not say how many) and still could not keep the shelves full.
> 
> 40 pairs a month is a reasonable figure imo. At least at peak of sales, it's gotta be tapering off by now though.
> 
> Arnaud


 

 I read somewhere on here about 500 a month on the 009s. And there is a post in the imbalance thread saying the same figure.
  
 The serial numbers don't work out, and Birgir state way back. They make no sense. I think Stax also started at 1001,1002 etc.
  
 I would imagine 009 sales are better now than at the start. PJ have said it is a big part of their sales, and there are many other outlets, then the dealers. On the 007s they have sold A LOT, way more units IMO.


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> Grad that KGSShv quick, and buy new 007A from PJ as that is really good now, as good as the original MK1. There is also a very good KGSShv for sale ion this forum (US voltage) by Paradoxper. I have the same amp and it is fabulous. Forget the Stax amps IMO, you can do much better.


 
  
  


astrostar59 said:


> That is quite a lot of money for an on-board KGSShv. I think you can do better....


 
  
  
 About four month ago: "Grad that KGSShv quick" ... as I remember listed at some 2700USD
 Now you think: "That is quite a lot of money" ~ 2200USD ... 
  
 ...care to explain?


----------



## astrostar59




----------



## 3X0

IMHO a KGSSHV isn't worth more than $1500 tops*, BOM aside. It's unfortunate it's so expensive to build.
  
*For context I think _everything_ is way too expensive.


----------



## comzee

3x0 said:


> IMHO a KGSSHV isn't worth more than $1500 tops*, BOM aside. It's unfortunate it's so expensive to build.
> 
> *For context I think _everything_ is way too expensive.


 
 I asked a few builders, a full BOM for the kgsshv carbon is 1000-1200 usd. 
  
 Wouldn't be able to find one for that price for the life of you... Although I think the regular prices builders are selling them for too expensive.
 Although, if you're not DIY yourself (like me), they can charge whatever they want for labor / know how. It is how products work


----------



## JimL11

comzee said:


> I asked a few builders, a full BOM for the kgsshv carbon is 1000-1200 usd.
> 
> Wouldn't be able to find one for that price for the life of you... Although I think the regular prices builders are selling them for too expensive.
> Although, if you're not DIY yourself (like me), they can charge whatever they want for labor / know how. It is how products work


 

 So if the materials cost $1000, is 3X0 is saying that the total cost should be $1500, or in other words, the builder's time and effort is worth close to minimum wage?  Or is he/she saying that the price should be up to $1500 plus materials cost, which makes the price $2500-$2700?


----------



## comzee

jiml11 said:


> So if the materials cost $1000, is 3X0 is saying that the total cost should be $1500, or in other words, the builder's time and effort is worth close to minimum wage?  Or is he/she saying that the price should be up to $1500 plus materials cost, which makes the price $2500-$2700?


 
 I'm not quite sure what he was trying to say. I saw he owns the BHSE, which some think are the pinnacle leaving everything in the dust.
  
 From what I read, the kgsshv carbon is at the same level of the BHSE, they are just a bit different. Thus it comes down to personal taste, and not so much which one is "better".


----------



## JimL11

comzee said:


> I'm not quite sure what he was trying to say. I saw he owns the BHSE, which some think are the pinnacle leaving everything in the dust.
> 
> From what I read, the kgsshv carbon is at the same level of the BHSE, they are just a bit different. Thus it comes down to personal taste, and not so much which one is "better".


 

 Yeah, considering that there are maybe one or two score DIY T2, maybe a hundred BHSE, maybe a couple dozen KGSSHV Carbon, perhaps less than that many Megatrons, and a handful of people that have heard all of them and posted comments on them, it's hard to know what the consensus is, or even if there is a consensus.  KG seems to put them on the same level, Mulveling and Purk seem to think the T2 is best and Birgir/spritzeer seems to lean toward the Carbon.  Does four people constitute a consensus, or just anecdotal opinion?
  
 Looking from way below, with my cheap and cheerful SRX Plus, as best I can tell the DIY T2 is maybe the "best" by a small margin, and the BHSE, Carbon and Megatron are at the same level with the best depending on personal taste.  Or maybe that's true of the T2 also??  Of course I can be completely objective because I haven't heard any of them.


----------



## 3X0

jiml11 said:


> So if the materials cost $1000, is 3X0 is saying that the total cost should be $1500, or in other words, the builder's time and effort is worth close to minimum wage?


As I hinted, I wish it weren't so expensive to build. The BOM is "fairly" priced in market terms so it's not economically overpriced, but the required cost to have something that sounds nice is depressing.


----------



## paradoxper

3x0 said:


> As I hinted, I wish it weren't so expensive to build. The BOM is "fairly" priced in market terms so it's not economically overpriced, but the required cost to have something that sounds nice is depressing.


 
 This doesn't make any sense. We're not talking about Schiit entry level gear. You are using Stax. Build a HV yourself that bests most commercial options at half the cost, if not more. 
 That's a bargain.


----------



## HemiSam

3x0 said:


> As I hinted, I wish it weren't so expensive to build. The BOM is "fairly" priced in market terms so it's not economically overpriced, but the required cost to have something that sounds nice is depressing.


 
  
 It looks as if you're making the leap that every builder uses the same parts...that's far from so.  Further, the chassis vary widely and can be a good bit of the total cost of a build.
  
 HS


----------



## 3X0

hemisam said:


> It looks as if you're making the leap that every builder uses the same parts...that's far from so.  Further, the chassis vary widely and can be a good bit of the total cost of a build.
> 
> HS


 
 Where did I ever insinuate that?
  
 I am saying that even if the absolute bottom-of-the-barrel BOM cost were $1000, that's still awfully expensive. I'm not commenting about any particular KGSSHV.


----------



## HemiSam

3x0 said:


> Where did I ever insinuate that?
> 
> I am saying that even if the absolute bottom-of-the-barrel BOM cost were $1000, that's still awfully expensive. I'm not commenting about any particular KGSSHV.


 
  
 Apologies if I misunderstood.  There's been so much drivel posted on this thread of late that its getting tough to follow.
  
 HS


----------



## 3X0

hemisam said:


> Apologies if I misunderstood.  There's been so much drivel posted on this thread of late that its getting tough to follow.
> HS


 
 No worries.
  
 I should probably also clarify that I don't mean to suggest that $1500 would be a fair price for a KGSSHV (e.g. #9001), especially in consideration of your point that some units would likely cost in excess of that in BOM alone e.g. when high-quality chasses or situational importation/tariff costs are factored in.
  
 I only mean that in the context of my (limited) experience with three separate KGSSHVs, I would not personally want to spend more than $1500 on one. It does sound nice, but none of them have ever wowed me.


paradoxper said:


> This doesn't make any sense. We're not talking about Schiit entry level gear. You are using Stax. Build a HV yourself that bests most commercial options at half the cost, if not more.  That's a bargain.


 
 As clarified above, I was never really impressed with the KGSSHVs I've heard so it's hard for me to consider it a bargain.


----------



## paradoxper

3x0 said:


> No worries.
> 
> I should probably also clarify that I don't mean to suggest that $1500 would be a fair price for a KGSSHV (e.g. #9001), especially in consideration of your point that some units would likely cost in excess of that in BOM alone e.g. when high-quality chasses or situational importation/tariff costs are factored in.
> 
> ...


 
 Fair context.


----------



## astrostar59




----------



## Quixote79

astrostar59 said:


> No KGSShv will beat the BHSE IMO. Best sound that money elsewhere.


 
  
 why you say this??? you explain several time your kgsshv is almost as good as the bhse and even have better bass - and now you say it will never beat the bhse - mush confusing


----------



## astrostar59




----------



## Quixote79

astrostar59 said:


> I always said the KGSShv I had was as good in some areas and better in others (bass). I never said it was the better amp. And I you go back to the first post on this subject, the KGSShv he is asking about in an on-board which runs at 5.5mA so different animal,to the Sanyo off-board KGSShv, only the name is the same.


 

 ah! makes sense. only of board sanyo fets that is better to the bhse. very confusing amps name the same and very different at same time


----------



## astrostar59




----------



## Tinkerer

I think it's important to add that not all onboards are set that low current-wise. I remember spritzer telling me to drop down the resistor values to increase my current compared to the V5 screen values because the sinks could handle it.


----------



## astrostar59




----------



## Quixote79

astrostar59 said:


> I always said the KGSShv I had was as good in some areas and better in others (bass). I never said it was the better amp. And I you go back to the first post on this subject, the KGSShv he is asking about in an on-board which runs at 5.5mA so different animal,to the Sanyo off-board KGSShv, only the name is the same.


 
  


astrostar59 said:


> Indded, and we also have the 500v IXYS KGSShv which sounds brighter. The Sanyo is the warmest of the KGSShv's and as such IMO is a great match to the 009s. They may also be changes in the sound depending on the type of resistors used on the boards, the quality of the mains transformer (not SUM-R Chinese crap) and the quality of the wiring loom. It all affects the sound IMO. Others may disagree, but take your choice. NO WAY an off-board KGSShv will get close to that BHSE.


 
  
 now you really confuse ...is your kgsshv not of board with sanyo fets and toroidy and quality wiring loom and beat the bhse in the bass and otherwise close to the bhse????
 why does a builder use chinese crap as the sum-r mains - cant it swing 5Ma?


----------



## astrostar59




----------



## 3X0

astrostar59 said:


> I am confused. What is the logic here. The BHSE is a great amp. If you are not satisfied, try NOS tubes like the Mullard XF4s. If still not satisfied, look at a higher level DAC. The Yggy is apparently very good, but can be beaten by going up in budgets.
> 
> How are you feeding your DAC? It can make a big difference if you use a well set up server or have a decent CDP. No KGSShv will beat the BHSE IMO. Best sound that money elsewhere.


I'm happy with my current chain, and would not still own the Yggdrasil and BHSE if I was displeased with them. My hypothetical next steps are the DIY-T2 and/or an Aristaeus or Octave (Mjolnir Audio) complement.

FWIW my tubes are the Mullard XF2 double-halo but I haven't personally used anything else.

If purk was here, I am glad I stuck out with the lowly SRM-323S until the BHSE. IMHO, YMMV, etc.


----------



## Quixote79

astrostar59 said:


> No idea why a builder would use cheap parts. Better ask them. The sound you get is not just about the mA swing, it is about the quality of said parts, it does affect the sound.


 

 so you need to look for the most mA swing and toroidy mains and sanyo fets to get a super kgssvh?


----------



## Quixote79

astrostar59 said:


> No idea why a builder would use cheap parts. Better ask them. The sound you get is not just about the mA swing, it is about the quality of said parts, it does affect the sound.


 

 how does one see if the builder has use quality wiring loom?


----------



## astrostar59

quixote79 said:


> how does one see if the builder has use quality wiring loom?


----------



## Quixote79

*astrostar59 *who is you getting your incoming Carbon from?


----------



## plektret

Can the voltage of SRM-353X be changed to EU standards by soldering or do I have to purchase the Churi transformer from Pricejapan?


----------



## kevin gilmore

depends on which transformer is inside your unit.  some are actually 100v only transformers, others are the universal transformers with the wires cut.


----------



## plektret

kevin gilmore said:


> depends on which transformer is inside your unit.  some are actually 100v only transformers, others are the universal transformers with the wires cut.



 

I haven't actually purchased the amp yet so I don't know. I will probably order it from Pricejapan next week, that's why I wondered if I should add the Churi to the order.


----------



## JimL11

3x0 said:


> As I hinted, I wish it weren't so expensive to build. The BOM is "fairly" priced in market terms so it's not economically overpriced, but the required cost to have something that sounds nice is depressing.


 

 So, build an SRX Plus.  A few hundred in parts, another hundred in tubes, whatever you want to spend for a case, simple enough to wire point-to-point, which is how I built mine, and does a damn good job driving my SR-007 Mk II with spritzer mod IMHO.


----------



## rgs9200m

I very much enjoy your posts Astrostar and have been reading them for some time. Thanks for all that.


----------



## oogabooga

plektret said:


> kevin gilmore said:
> 
> 
> > depends on which transformer is inside your unit.  some are actually 100v only transformers, others are the universal transformers with the wires cut.
> ...


 

 This might help - I posted it a while back:
Rewiring the SRM-323S from 100V to 120V


----------



## Quixote79

rgs9200m said:


> I very much enjoy your posts Astrostar and have been reading them for some time. Thanks for all that.


 

 very sad to see so much knowledge leaving - *astrostar59 *taught me everything I know about stat amps, big thanks


----------



## purk

quixote79 said:


> very sad to see so much knowledge leaving - *astrostar59* taught me everything I know about stat amps, big thanks




I don't think he is leaving this site yet.


----------



## astrostar59

purk said:


> I don't think he is leaving this site yet.


 

 Maybe not yet? I got attacked over at the other place even though I rarely post there and in this case didn't. Thought, I've head enough. BUT still listening to music and TBH most of the guys on here, even though some don't know the highest technical detail of how an amp works or is designed, have golden ears and spent shed loads of time (and some money as well). In my book that personal experience is as good. Don't need to know how a 911 works but you can be great at enjoying / driving it.
  
 I have also had a lot of reputations and PMs asking me not to leave, so thanks guys for that. This is what this hobby is about (folk helping each other).
  
 Been enjoying my speakers and new DAC the last few days as my 2 x KGSShv's are sold. I miss the 009s for sure.


----------



## echineko

Does anyone here have any experience with the Audiovalve Luminare? Just came across it recently, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of information about it here. Would be interesting to try it out in person, though.


----------



## Blackmore

Havent see any on sale???
  
 You doing the right thing, just chill and listen to music, stay away for a while and come back freshy, and, just ignore idiots
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> Maybe not yet? I got attacked over at the other place even though I rarely post there and in this case didn't. Thought, I've head enough. BUT still listening to music and TBH most of the guys on here, even though some don't know the highest technical detail of how an amp works or is designed, have golden ears and spent shed loads of time (and some money as well). In my book that personal experience is as good. Don't need to know how a 911 works but you can be great at enjoying / driving it.
> 
> I have also had a lot of reputations and PMs asking me not to leave, so thanks guys for that. This is what this hobby is about (folk helping each other).
> 
> Been enjoying my speakers and new DAC the last few days as my 2 x KGSShv's are sold. I miss the 009s for sure.


----------



## Quixote79

astrostar59 said:


> Agree. I am gone, too much slag offs over at the other place. Leave you all to it, find your own advice..... don't know why I bother. Thanks for the 'Reputations' from guys here mind, appreciate that. I think I will never post ever again, too many angry people....


 
  
 Quote:


purk said:


> I don't think he is leaving this site yet.


 
 but that is what he says, leave you all to it, find your own advice


----------



## Quixote79

astrostar59 said:


> Maybe not yet? I got attacked over at the other place even though I rarely post there and in this case didn't. Thought, I've head enough. BUT still listening to music and TBH most of the guys on here, even though some don't know the highest technical detail of how an amp works or is designed, have golden ears and spent shed loads of time (and some money as well). In my book that personal experience is as good. Don't need to know how a 911 works but you can be great at enjoying / driving it.
> 
> I have also had a lot of reputations and PMs asking me not to leave, so thanks guys for that. This is what this hobby is about (folk helping each other).
> 
> Been enjoying my speakers and new DAC the last few days as my 2 x KGSShv's are sold. I miss the 009s for sure.


 
*astrostar59 *glad you still hear and listing to music. know you spent shed loads of time on this and is higly knowledge even now finer technical details ... that is so rarely.
 Glad you didn't call 911 and just works to be great and enjoying - much succes driving.
  
 Just pop the dogs and chill - dont leaf yet.


----------



## Sahara

sahara said:


> I write this here. I, ve open a new thread but no good luck with my dudes and after reading a lot I have still a question which I' d like to resolve:
> 
> I, ve decided to reterminate my HE-60 with Stax plug and sell the HEV70...I do not plan to sell my HE60 because they are fantastic and I'm very happy with them. Along with my SR-009 and 4070 they form a perfect trio.
> 
> ...


 
  




 I'd like to afford the retermination next week. Could someone help me in this question?
 Do you think there are sound differences with/without the resistor?
  
 Thanks once again


----------



## ericj

Etched and drilled. Gotta be a knack to wiping off the toner resist without smearing it all over the board, but i sure don't have it.


----------



## Michgelsen

sahara said:


> I'd like to afford the retermination next week. Could someone help me in this question?
> Do you think there are sound differences with/without the resistor?
> 
> Thanks once again


 
  
 Yes, use the resistor there. It is simply best practice, and on top of that I think there is a chance of damage to the headphones if you don't. The resistor controls the amount of power that flows to the diaphragm, to keep it charged. Because I do not have enough knowledge about electronics, I cannot say for sure what will happen if you don't use it. A resistor is so cheap however, that it would not be very smart to leave out this component if there would be a small chance you could damage your HE60 without it.
  
 While I had my HE60, I made a Stax adapter by cutting up an old Stax extension cord, and making a ghetto-style female HE60 plug at the other end, with a 4M7 resistor on it.


----------



## soren_brix

sahara said:


> I'd like to afford the retermination next week. Could someone help me in this question?
> Do you think there are sound differences with/without the resistor?
> 
> Thanks once again


 
 10M resistor is specified by Sennheiser. You need to use some resistor spec'ed at > 600V - the resistor is there as protection - using only 5M will probably damage your diaphragm long term, there are no SQ benefit to gain from using 5M rather than 10M.


----------



## Michgelsen

But there's already 5M in the Stax amp, so that's why you only need an additional 5M in the adapter (or 4M7 if easier to get: it's close enough).


----------



## Tinkerer

Probably smarter to just make an adapter cable to not damage the value of the headphones. Stax extension cables are cheap fodder for that. The question is, where can you buy an HE60 female connector? Moon has the HE90, and I saw some premade adaptors that used HE60 females but I couldn't track down a source in the few minutes I spent looking.


----------



## soren_brix

sahara said:


> I'd like to afford the retermination next week. Could someone help me in this question?
> Do you think there are sound differences with/without the resistor?
> 
> Thanks once again


 
  
  


tinkerer said:


> Probably smarter to just make an adapter cable to not damage the value of the headphones. Stax extension cables are cheap fodder for that. The question is, where can you buy an HE60 female connector? Moon has the HE90, and I saw some premade adaptors that used HE60 females but I couldn't track down a source in the few minutes I spent looking.


 
 Agree
  
 Wiktor did it a while back ... here


----------



## jibzilla

astrostar59 said:


> Maybe not yet? I got attacked over at the other place even though I rarely post there and in this case didn't. Thought, I've head enough. BUT still listening to music and TBH most of the guys on here, even though some don't know the highest technical detail of how an amp works or is designed, have golden ears and spent shed loads of time (and some money as well). In my book that personal experience is as good. Don't need to know how a 911 works but you can be great at enjoying / driving it.
> 
> I have also had a lot of reputations and PMs asking me not to leave, so thanks guys for that. This is what this hobby is about (folk helping each other).
> 
> Been enjoying my speakers and new DAC the last few days as my 2 x KGSShv's are sold. I miss the 009s for sure.


 
  
 That "other place" likes to act entitled. I wouldn't let it get to ya buddy.


----------



## kevin gilmore

for those that have never seen the real things
  
http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/he90drivers.jpg


----------



## Sahara

Thank you very much to all for your help!!!
  
  
 Quote:


tinkerer said:


> Probably smarter to just make an adapter cable to not damage the value of the headphones. Stax extension cables are cheap fodder for that. The question is, where can you buy an HE60 female connector? Moon has the HE90, and I saw some premade adaptors that used HE60 females but I couldn't track down a source in the few minutes I spent looking.


 
  
 Perhaps that is the best idea, but I don't plan to sell them ever. I've been long looking for flat response headphones but with light roll off at high frequencies and I think I have found it with the HE-60.
  
 I own a SR009 and If I had to decide to keep between one of both that would be very difficult for me. SR009 sound fantastic but HE-60 are at the same level ...
  
 I, ve trying to found a HE-60 female connectors but it's a utopia..
  
 I, ve seen those from aliexpress but currently unavailable
  


  
  
 Thanks a lot!!!


----------



## Michgelsen

A very long time ago there was someone on Head-Fi who found an automobile part that fit the HE60 plug:
  


bozebuttons said:


> Its a Park neutral position switch connector from a 1996 Saturn Sl2
> Part # 1211657 which can be ordered through The parts dept of a saturn or GM dealership List price is $33.80.
> Or you can do what I did ,I went to a local junkyard and cut it out of the wiring harness on a junk Saturn automatic of course.


 
  
 I never pursued it because there are no Saturns in Europe. (I went with little gold connectors from a demolished sound card.)
  
 Edit: the part number doesn't give any useful results, but searching for 1996 Saturn SL2 connectors does return this interesting candidate: http://www.carparts.com/details/Saturn/SL2/Replacement/Connectors/1996/Base/4_Cyl_1-dot-9L/REPB381202.html


----------



## yates7592

_*KGSS vs KGST*_
  
 OK so my search for a half-decent 'stop-gap' amp for SR-009 (until Carbon/BHSE is within sight) is narrowed down to either a used KGSS or a used KGST. I understand the basic difference between the two amps, but which is the better amp for SR-009? For me, amongst other things, I particularly value good bass response and a large soundstage. Whilst neither amp likely excels in these areas against say a Carbon or BHSE, is one better than the other in these areas? I have it in my head that KGST is generally thought to be 'better' than KGSS, but I don't know why, or even if it is true at all....


----------



## potkettleblack

Where you planning on getting the amp once you make a decision?


----------



## yates7592

From whichever Head-Fier will sell me one at a good price!


----------



## purk

yates7592 said:


> _*KGSS vs KGST*_
> 
> OK so my search for a half-decent 'stop-gap' amp for SR-009 (until Carbon/BHSE is within sight) is narrowed down to either a used KGSS or a used KGST. I understand the basic difference between the two amps, but which is the better amp for SR-009? For me, amongst other things, I particularly value good bass response and a large soundstage. Whilst neither amp likely excels in these areas against say a Carbon or BHSE, is one better than the other in these areas? I have it in my head that KGST is generally thought to be 'better' than KGSS, but I don't know why, or even if it is true at all....


 
 I recommend the KGST over the KGSS.  With the KGST, you can always roll tubes for better sound despite limited tube choices.  I find the KGST to be quite a capable amp only loosing out to the full-sized KGSSHV in term of soundstage and resolution...but it also make up with better midrange purity.


----------



## mulveling

yates7592 said:


> _*KGSS vs KGST*_
> 
> OK so my search for a half-decent 'stop-gap' amp for SR-009 (until Carbon/BHSE is within sight) is narrowed down to either a used KGSS or a used KGST. I understand the basic difference between the two amps, but which is the better amp for SR-009? For me, amongst other things, I particularly value good bass response and a large soundstage. Whilst neither amp likely excels in these areas against say a Carbon or BHSE, is one better than the other in these areas? I have it in my head that KGST is generally thought to be 'better' than KGSS, but I don't know why, or even if it is true at all....


 
 A KGSSHV (not KGSS) will be your perfect stopgap solution given that you value soundstage and bass response -- which are the KGSShv's 2 relative strengths, and the KGST's 2 greatest weaknesses compared to better amps. I've heard KGSShv's run the gamut from warm to bright depending on build, so you'd want to do some research there to hit your preferences.
  
 A KGST is what you'd go for if you valued sweet/liquid tube mids the most (vs the slightly analytical/dry mids of SS) -- yes the midrange sounds more "alive" on a good tube amp.


----------



## yates7592

mulveling said:


> A KGSSHV (not KGSS) will be your perfect stopgap solution given that you value soundstage and bass response -- which are the KGSShv's 2 relative strengths, and the KGST's 2 greatest weaknesses compared to better amps. I've heard KGSShv's run the gamut from warm to bright depending on build, so you'd want to do some research there to hit your preferences.
> 
> A KGST is what you'd go for if you valued sweet/liquid tube mids the most (vs the slightly analytical/dry mids of SS) -- yes the midrange sounds more "alive" on a good tube amp.


 

 Yes, I would take a KGSSHV, but can't justify the additional $$$, as this will only further delay the Carbon purchase. For now I just want something that will let me enjoy SR-009 at a half-decent level and at the same time let me reach a Carbon asap.


----------



## rgs9200m

I can sell you my (black) Stax 007t/ii amp with pretty new upgraded RCA cleartop tubes for $1000. It's quite acceptable with nice tubey mids/highs. I replaced it with a KGSS-HV.
 I was keeping it as a backup amp, since I was satisfied with the sound on my 009.


----------



## joseph69

purk said:


> I recommend the KGST over the KGSS.  With the KGST, you can always roll tubes for better sound despite limited tube choices.  I find the KGST to be quite a capable amp only loosing out to the full-sized KGSSHV in term of soundstage and resolution...but it also make up with better midrange purity.


 
 As per Birgir…no rolling tubes in the KGST *(6S4A ONLY)* I own one and asked him and this was his response…"it will blow up"!


----------



## purk

joseph69 said:


> As per Birgir…no rolling tubes in the KGST *(6S4A ONLY)* I own one and asked him and this was his response…"it will blow up"!


 
 Are you kidding?  You can try different brands of 6S4As.  I'm not suggesting anyone to try different tube type beside 6S4A varieties.  For instance I do know that the GE & RCA do sound different with RCA having more sparking energy up top and better sense of 3-D staging.  I actually owned one of this bad boy before.


----------



## rgs9200m

I thought that when you roll tubes, you usually use the exact same tube type, just from different origins or brands. That's what I do (except when it is absolutely certain that it a name change or branding change only).


----------



## mulveling

yates7592 said:


> Yes, I would take a KGSSHV, but can't justify the additional $$$, as this will only further delay the Carbon purchase. For now I just want something that will let me enjoy SR-009 at a half-decent level and at the same time let me reach a Carbon asap.


 
 Ah, ok -- then a KGST would be my choice. I was very underwhelmed the few times I heard a plain KGSS w/ 007 several years ago. Though I suspect that patient trolling of the FS forums would eventually yield a good KGSShv build for a price not much above the typical KGST.
  
 And yeah, as Purk said there are at least a couple brands of 6S4A, and if you believe at all in tube rolling (and I most certainly do), then they're worth rolling into a KGST to find your favorite. The KGST pairs well with the 009 and L700.


----------



## jibzilla

yates7592 said:


> Yes, I would take a KGSSHV, but can't justify the additional $$$, as this will only further delay the Carbon purchase. For now I just want something that will let me enjoy SR-009 at a half-decent level and at the same time let me reach a Carbon asap.


 
  
 I have a 727ii I would sell for a really cheap price. 120v. so no transformer/mods needed. I felt it was really nice amp with the 009's and could not pick a favorite between the 007's and 009's on the kgsshv through my Pavane where I could with the 727ii, def. the 009's. I think my kgsshv is voiced more for the 007 so it is something to consider when getting a kgsshv.


----------



## joseph69

purk said:


> rgs9200m said:
> 
> 
> > I thought that when you roll tubes, you usually use the exact same tube type, just from different origins or brands. That's what I do (except when it is absolutely certain that it a name change or branding change only).
> ...


 
 No I'm not kidding. Rolling tubes is trying different tubes as much as trying different brands, and your post seemed to have suggested different tubes other than the 6S4A (or at least I interpreted it this way) not different brands. And of course I know I can use any brand  as long as it is a 6S4A.


----------



## purk

joseph69 said:


> No I'm not kidding. Rolling tubes is trying different tubes as much as trying different brands, and your post seemed to have suggested different tubes other than the 6S4A (or at least I interpreted it this way) not different brands. And of course I know I can use any brand  as long as it is a 6S4A.




And why would I suggested that? No worries...we are on the same page now. I hope others would not blame both of us for blowing up their amps.


----------



## joseph69

purk said:


> And why would I suggested that? No worries...we are on the same page now. I hope others would not blame both of us for blowing up their amps.


 
 I just misunderstood your post…and yes, hopefully we don't get any blame for anyone blowing up their KGST!


----------



## astrostar59

yates7592 said:


> Yes, I would take a KGSSHV, but can't justify the additional $$$, as this will only further delay the Carbon purchase. For now I just want something that will let me enjoy SR-009 at a half-decent level and at the same time let me reach a Carbon asap.


 
 Then I would buy a used Stax SRM-717 for about 800 USD and save for the BHSE or Carbon. Something to bear in mind, the BHSE is on it's last production batch number 5 and I am not sure what Justin will make beyond that running out. A Carbon is down to finding a builder or a good DIY completed copy. IMO I would buy the 717 and put a repo on the BHSE if you can find the money in 6 months which is roughly when it would land / asking for the last 75% payment.
  
 If however you are 2 years away then I would get hold of a KGSShv Sanyo off-board as to me that amp sounds great with the 009 and warms it up just enough to be a balanced system. PM purk before you buy a KGSShv as he has had lots of the different versions and should be able to point you in the right direction, whereas I have only heard the Sanyo and going of others advice.


----------



## jibzilla

I'd let my 727 go for only $600. Pretty sure it is the same amp as the 717.


----------



## arnaud

I'd never sell mine at such silly low price. I'd rather risk ruining through a mod than this or I'd have to be pretty desperate about the money.
Now, for anyone on the fence, that's an incredible (did I say silly) deal, you should go ahead and rip it off jibzilla's hands 
Arnaud


----------



## JimL11

joseph69 said:


> No I'm not kidding. Rolling tubes is trying different tubes as much as trying different brands, and your post seemed to have suggested different tubes other than the 6S4A (or at least I interpreted it this way) not different brands. And of course I know I can use any brand  as long as it is a 6S4A.


 

 So the issue is that tube rolling can refer to both, because of the inexactitude of the phrase.  It can mean trying different brands and vintages of one tube type to "season to taste" - perfectly OK,. Or, it can mean shoving any tube that will physically fit or using adapters to go even further afield and judging the results based on two criteria - first, the amp doesn't blow up, and second, do you like the sound.  Here's the thing, and I'm sure both you and purk know this.  Different tube types have significant differences in operating parameters, and competent designers design for specific tubes based on those parameters.  Shoving different tube types willy nilly into a competent design will generally screw up the sound - whether you like the results or not, the result is unlikely to be a properly working circuit, unless the designer specifically took this into account and is willing to say so.  Even then, they will generally limit the selection of tube types.


----------



## joseph69

jiml11 said:


> So the issue is that tube rolling can refer to both, because of the inexactitude of the phrase.  It can mean trying different brands and vintages of one tube type to "season to taste" - perfectly OK,. Or, it can mean shoving any tube that will physically fit or using adapters to go even further afield and judging the results based on two criteria - first, the amp doesn't blow up, and second, do you like the sound.  Here's the thing, and I'm sure both you and purk know this.  Different tube types have significant differences in operating parameters, and competent designers design for specific tubes based on those parameters.  Shoving different tube types willy nilly into a competent design will generally screw up the sound - whether you like the results or not, the result is unlikely to be a properly working circuit, unless the designer specifically took this into account and is willing to say so.  Even then, they will generally limit the selection of tube types.


 
 Thanks for the input.
 Yes I understand that amps/tubes are made differently and will/will not work correctly, or worse blow your amp.


----------



## Sahara

Hi!!
 Apologizes once again . Now not only for my poor english but also for my poor technical knowledge.
  
 Imagine this situation:
  
 HE60 ---RESISTOR---STAX MALE PLUG--><---STAX FEMALE PUG---HE60 CONNECTOR===HEV70
  
 Im sure to put a 5Mohm resistor to connect the Baby Orpheus to the Stax amps and try to sell my HEV70. So the idea is to cut the HE60 original cable about 10/15 inches before the HE60 plug (the cable is too long) and install there the Stax male coonector. On the short cable putting a Stax female connector to he HE60 original plug.
  
 Something like this:
  

  
  
 After this process If I want to conect HE60 to HEV70 (with the adaptor and resistor installed in the long side of the cable) ¿What is the influence of the resistor there?
  
  
 Thank you


----------



## AdrianLukas

Hi,
  
 as many here, I'm also looking for adequate amplification of Stax 009 headphones. The Japanese Yahoo auctions website shows this T2 or kind of T2 amplifier:
  
http://yahoo.aleado.com/lot?auctionID=w78464540
  
 Now, my question is, what kind of amplifier is this? There is a posibility of corresponding with the dealer which I tried, but I got no answer. Is anyone out there to read the Japanese version of the offer and understand its technical description? What's 'chock trance drive' apart from that it sounds exciting?
  
 The Japanese version:
  
http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w78464540
  
 Thanks!
 Adrian


----------



## mulveling

adrianlukas said:


> Hi,
> 
> as many here, I'm also looking for adequate amplification of Stax 009 headphones. The Japanese Yahoo auctions website shows this T2 or kind of T2 amplifier:
> 
> ...


 
 To call that amp "T2 like" is obscene. A T2 is nothing like that; way way more complicated/sophisticated and obviously vastly superior. Would stay far away.


----------



## kevin gilmore

That amplifier is ac coupled, phase splitter driving 6ca7 output tubes. So similar to my all triode amp with 6ca7 replacing the 6s4 output tubes.
Resistive plate load.

Absolutely nothing like a T2 which is fully DC coupled and has a constant current plate load.

It probably does sound pretty good, but for that price there are a number of other amplifiers out there.


----------



## jibzilla

arnaud said:


> I'd never sell mine at such silly low price. I'd rather risk ruining through a mod than this or I'd have to be pretty desperate about the money.
> Now, for anyone on the fence, that's an incredible (did I say silly) deal, you should go ahead and rip it off jibzilla's hands
> Arnaud


 
  
 I bought my 727ii second hand at a pretty good price. It has just been collecting dust since I got my kgsshv, which has been a while now. If it helps out a fellow enthusiast and I'm not using the 727 why not offer up a deal?
  
 Still have not sold it. I think new builders like spritzer and head in clouds have driven down the prices of stax amps. Stax amps really are not that bad though imo. at least the 727 impressed me but it was half its retail when I bought it.


----------



## arnaud

jibzilla said:


> I bought my 727ii second hand at a pretty good price. It has just been collecting dust since I got my kgsshv, which has been a while now. If it helps out a fellow enthusiast and I'm not using the 727 why not offer up a deal?
> 
> Still have not sold it. I think new builders like spritzer and head in clouds have driven down the prices of stax amps. Stax amps really are not that bad though imo. at least the 727 impressed me but it was half its retail when I bought it.




Ok, I understand where you're coming from. Thinking about setting mine up in the living room if I ever get time again to watch movies at night and get myself a realiser. 

Was tempted to mod it when I had fuse issue with my BHSE but it was resolved too quickly for me to actually go ahead with this .

Arnaud


----------



## JimL11

adrianlukas said:


> Hi,
> 
> as many here, I'm also looking for adequate amplification of Stax 009 headphones. The Japanese Yahoo auctions website shows this T2 or kind of T2 amplifier:
> 
> ...


 

 Hi,
 Although the internal picture is rather fuzzy, as best I can tell, it appears the coupling capacitors (the 4 black cylinder in the middle appear to be connected between the plates of an input stage tube and the grid of the output tubes, which is how the input and output stages in the old Stax SRX DIY circuit were connected. The SRX circuit formed the topologic backbone of the Stax SRM-T2, with the coupling capacitors between input and output replaced by sophisticated DC coupled solid state circuitry, allowing the entire design to be DC coupled from input to output.  I assume this gives the seller the rationale for saying this is a "T2-type" - but the relationship is similar to a baby velociraptor vs a grown Tyrannosaurus rex.  As far as I can tell the only difference between the original SRX and this amp is the substitution of more powerful tubes (EL34?) for the outputs.  It does not appear that either the English or Japanese version list the tube complement but the original SRX used 12AT7/ECC81 input tubes.
  
 As Kevin Gilmore points out, aside from the AC vs DC coupling, another big difference is the use of current sources in the T2 vs the output resistor loads (the 4 rectangular white block-like things just below the bottom row of tube sockets). Resistor loads make the amp much less efficient at delivering the signal current to the headphones, and is a relic of the 1970s era when the original circuit was designed.
  
 I have published a couple articles on modernizing this design so I obviously like it, but I don't think that the unmodified circuit is worth what the seller is asking for it.  The price is as high or higher than the commercial Stax amps even though the circuit is significantly simpler.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

jiml11 said:


> Hi,
> Although the internal picture is rather fuzzy, as best I can tell, it appears the coupling capacitors (the 4 black cylinder in the middle appear to be connected between the plates of an input stage tube and the grid of the output tubes, which is how the input and output stages in the old Stax SRX DIY circuit were connected. The SRX circuit formed the topologic backbone of the Stax SRM-T2, with the coupling capacitors between input and output replaced by sophisticated DC coupled solid state circuitry, allowing the entire design to be DC coupled from input to output.  I assume this gives the seller the rationale for saying this is a "T2-type" - but the relationship is similar to a baby velociraptor vs a grown Tyrannosaurus rex.  As far as I can tell the only difference between the original SRX and this amp is the substitution of more powerful tubes (EL34?) for the outputs.  It does not appear that either the English or Japanese version list the tube complement but the original SRX used 12AT7/ECC81 input tubes.
> 
> As Kevin Gilmore points out, aside from the AC vs DC coupling, another big difference is the use of current sources in the T2 vs the output resistor loads (the 4 rectangular white block-like things just below the bottom row of tube sockets). Resistor loads make the amp much less efficient at delivering the signal current to the headphones, and is a relic of the 1970s era when the original circuit was designed.
> ...


 
  
 Judging from the pics, this type of amp is capable of driving both e-stat and dynamic headphones?
  
 JimL11, I'm interesting in reading your articles.  Any pointer?  Thanks.


----------



## kevin gilmore

that is what the output transformers are for, driving dynamic headphones. This is the opposite of what most amps do.


----------



## JimL11

sko0bydoo said:


> Judging from the pics, this type of amp is capable of driving both e-stat and dynamic headphones?
> 
> JimL11, I'm interesting in reading your articles.  Any pointer?  Thanks.


 
 The articles were published in AudioXpress Nov and Dec 2015.  I think back issues are available on their website.  A more extended version of the articles with a couple additions/corrections/updates are also on the other web site in the DIY section under SRX Revisited.


----------



## rgs9200m

I am thinking of adding a Stax 353 amp to my desktop to listen to my Stax phones where I don't have the space for a KGSS amp of any sort. Is the 353 amp worthy (for the 007 or 009 phone)?


----------



## purk

rgs9200m said:


> I am thinking of adding a Stax 353 amp to my desktop to listen to my Stax phones where I don't have the space for a KGSS amp of any sort. Is the 353 amp worthy (for the 007 or 009 phone)?




It can do ok with both but I like the sr009 out of it more. The sr007 won't shine with anything less than kgsshv or kgst I am afraid.


----------



## rgs9200m

Thanks purk. I think there might be a market for a KGSS-Micro if it was technically possible at any decent level of performance. (KGSS-LV, lol?)


----------



## yates7592

As far as I understand:
SRM-717 = "KGSS micro"


----------



## astrostar59

rgs9200m said:


> Thanks purk. I think there might be a market for a KGSS-Micro if it was technically possible at any decent level of performance. (KGSS-LV, lol?)


 
 The 717 is not the same as a KGSS. Have you looked at Birgirs KGSShv Minis?


----------



## yates7592

Astrostar - I read somewhere 717 was based on KGSS (or vice versa) with 717 having inferior PSU? But yes, you're right they're not the same.


----------



## purk

rgs9200m said:


> Thanks purk. I think there might be a market for a KGSS-Micro if it was technically possible at any decent level of performance. (KGSS-LV, lol?)


 
 The Mjolnir KGSSHV mini is quite a performer with the SR007, but I find it a tad bright with the SR009.  The KGST is super nice as well.


----------



## soren_brix

yates7592 said:


> Astrostar - I read somewhere 717 was based on KGSS (or vice versa) with 717 having inferior PSU? But yes, you're right they're not the same.


 
 Quote:from Kevin Gilmore here


> The 727 is a local feedback version of the 717. The 727 has a current source, the 717 has a resistor. Otherwise virtually identical.
> The 727 runs the output stage at higher power.
> 
> The kgss and the 717 are similar amplifiers. (4 stage amplifiers)
> ...


----------



## kugino

so i've lost patience with my sr007A that has a finicky right channel. i don't have the patience or the skills to fix it, so any ideas for a fix or a sell? what might i be able to sell it for or get in exchange? they're otherwise in great condition with the metal box...


----------



## joseph69

kugino said:


> so i've lost patience with my sr007A that has a finicky right channel. i don't have the patience or the skills to fix it, so any ideas for a fix or a sell? what might i be able to sell it for or get in exchange? they're otherwise in great condition with the metal box...


 
 Why wouldn't you send them to be repaired from the place of purchase?


----------



## kugino

joseph69 said:


> Why wouldn't you send them to be repaired from the place of purchase?


bought them used from a guy in Japan. past their warranty. and from all accounts repairing them out of warranty is an expensive proposition.


----------



## ericj

kugino said:


> so i've lost patience with my sr007A that has a finicky right channel. i don't have the patience or the skills to fix it, so any ideas for a fix or a sell? what might i be able to sell it for or get in exchange? they're otherwise in great condition with the metal box...


 
  
 I have no experience with stax of that calibre, but on some older staxen i have found that carefully cleaning on and around the contacts where the cable is connected to the driver has resolved issues several times. 
  
 Isopropyl alcohol on a lint-free swab, potentially followed by deoxit on a lint-free swab.


----------



## joseph69

kugino said:


> bought them used from a guy in Japan. past their warranty. and from all accounts repairing them out of warranty is an expensive proposition.


 
 Ah, I understand…sorry to hear this, I have no idea how expensive it would be to repair an 007.


----------



## rgs9200m

astrostar59 said:


> The 717 is not the same as a KGSS. Have you looked at Birgirs KGSShv Minis?


 
 I have the mini. Great amp, but small it is not.
 To poor kugino here, all I could suggest is trying to call Tats at Stax USA about a repair. He's hard to get to but he was very nice to me when I talked to him sometime back.


----------



## JimL11

yates7592 said:


> Astrostar - I read somewhere 717 was based on KGSS (or vice versa) with 717 having inferior PSU? But yes, you're right they're not the same.


 

 My understanding is that the 717 and KGSS are similar designs in the amp circuit, however the KGSS has a regulated power supply and the 717 does not.  Also, the 727 has a similar amp topology to the KGSSHV if you do the "spritzer" mod to convert it to global feedback, however the 727 runs at a lower voltage.  Also the full size KGSSHV has an improved power supply regulator compared to the KGSS, whereas the 727 has a simple unregulated power supply.  The KGSSHV mini has the same amp circuit as the full size KGSSHV but uses the simpler power supply regulator similar to that used in the original KGSS and KGBH (the BHSE uses an upgraded power supply reg).


----------



## edstrelow

kugino said:


> so i've lost patience with my sr007A that has a finicky right channel. i don't have the patience or the skills to fix it, so any ideas for a fix or a sell? what might i be able to sell it for or get in exchange? they're otherwise in great condition with the metal box...



It could be the cable. The strain relief is not great on these phones. Both my left and right channel have broken at different times where the cable feeds into the earcup and I bodged a fix, which needs mending every few months. It's not ridiculously difficult to fix but you have to be careful about the small wires inside that go directly to the drivers. I have been looking at new cables and you seem to be able to get one for less than US $200.00. I will probably fix this and get some new earpads when I finish my sorbothane experiments on these phones.


----------



## purk

rgs9200m said:


> I have the mini. Great amp, but small it is not.
> To poor kugino here, all I could suggest is trying to call Tats at Stax USA about a repair. He's hard to get to but he was very nice to me when I talked to him sometime back.


 
  

  
 Your Mini is actually a prototype so it is considerably bigger in size.  The current version is considerably bit smaller.  It is barely bigger than the BHSE PSU.


----------



## Pokemonn

I am shocked. with my SR-009 I found I can hear difference of connection between USB  input and optical digital input.
 USB input sound sharper and 3D and holographic than optical input. must be cased by jitters?
 my current DAC is Bifrost 4490.
 Is this phenomenon common for SR-009 users?
  
 Thank you very much for your advices.


----------



## landroni

pokemonn said:


> I am shocked. with my SR-009 I found I can hear difference of connection between USB  input and optical digital input.
> USB input sound sharper and 3D and holographic than optical input. must be cased by jitters?
> my current DAC is Bifrost 4490.


 

 Optical cannot be affected by electrical noise (unlike USB), so if you experience decreased performance it is likely to be related to timing errors (i.e. jitter). What cable are you using? And what source do you use to feed the DAC?
  
 For a high-quality glass cable see Lifatec:
 http://www.lifatec.com/toslink2.html


----------



## Pokemonn

landroni said:


> Optical cannot be affected by electrical noise (unlike USB), so if you experience decreased performance it is likely to be related to timing errors (i.e. jitter). What cable are you using? And what source do you use to feed the DAC?
> 
> For a high-quality glass cable see Lifatec:
> http://www.lifatec.com/toslink2.html


 

 Thank you for your reply landroni.
 I use Amazon Basics optical tosling cable. its very very cheap cable. 
 and I use 5K iMac as a source.
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I've very little use of toslink on my Yggy, but my impressions are Coax or BNC > USB > Toslink. Only impressions, no comparison with level matching.

 Ali


----------



## Pokemonn

ali-pacha said:


> I've very little use of toslink on my Yggy, but my impressions are Coax or BNC > USB > Toslink. Only impressions, no comparison with level matching.
> 
> Ali


 

 Thank you Ali. must be right. Mike Mofat of Schiit audio used to said same thing if my memory correct.
 SR-009 are ultra revealing headphone! I didn't notice this phenomenon with my HD650...
  
 http://www.cnet.com/news/the-audiophiliac-asks-the-experts-do-digital-audio-connections-sound-different/


----------



## crazychile

landroni said:


> pokemonn said:
> 
> 
> > I am shocked. with my SR-009 I found I can hear difference of connection between USB  input and optical digital input.
> ...


 

 I also have a Lifatec Toslink. If you're going to use Toslink get a decent one (Lifatec) that uses glass fiber instead of plastic (Amazon Basics). The Lifatec is still relatively affordable.
  
 Although I admit to using USB more with an Uptone Regen in the chain. Despite all the shortcomings of USB, this still sounds a little better than Toslink to me.


----------



## Pokemonn

crazychile said:


> I also have a Lifatec Toslink. If you're going to use Toslink get a decent one (Lifatec) that uses glass fiber instead of plastic (Amazon Basics). The Lifatec is still relatively affordable.
> 
> Although I admit to using USB more with an Uptone Regen in the chain. Despite all the shortcomings of USB, this still sounds a little better than Toslink to me.


 

 Thank you crazychile for your advices. I will try a Uptone Regen. Thank you!


----------



## rgs9200m

Thank you Purk again. Best to you. I will take out my tape measure again.


----------



## landroni

pokemonn said:


> I use Amazon Basics optical tosling cable. its very very cheap cable.
> and I use 5K iMac as a source.


 
  
 The Lifatec should be a worthy upgrade, then. But the reliability of data transmission will also depend on the quality of the transcievers. My understanding is that in generic laptops optical transcievers are chosen on a "race to bottom" approach so may not be of the highest quality...
  
 As for USB, many seem to be happy with a Schiit Wyrd in the signal path (and there are reports that stacking two Wyrds together improves things, but no more than two).


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Do the Audeze vegan pads fit on the 009? I'd prefer not to use lambskin if it at all possible.


----------



## Michgelsen

With electrostats swapping earpads is not as straightforward as with dynamics or planars. An airtight seal between phones and ear is very important for example. You will likely screw up the sound if you use different pads. Only proceed if you intend to modify the sound of that 3800 dollar pair of headphones on purpose for some reason.


----------



## jibzilla

Isn't there brown pleather pads?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

https://www.staxusa.com/parts/ear-pads/stax-sr-007-earpad.html
  
 I found this for the SR-007. Do they also work on 009?


----------



## bmichels

No more news about this SRM212 neat *DAC/AMP prototype from STAX *?


----------



## edstrelow

michgelsen said:


> With electrostats swapping earpads is not as straightforward as with dynamics or planars. An airtight seal between phones and ear is very important for example. You will likely screw up the sound if you use different pads. Only proceed if you intend to modify the sound of that 3800 dollar pair of headphones on purpose for some reason.


 
 With some more than others. For example the 007A has a port so it will never be airtight.  The Mk1 I believe has no port.  Some Lambdas also have ports.


----------



## Arthrumus

Pad thickness and angle can also have a significant effect on the sound. Swapping pads is not really a great idea unless you are specifically seeking to alter the sound in some way. I tried some Denon pads on my SR-5 a while back and even though they are similar to the original pads in terms of thickness, the ear opening is larger than the original pads which brought the drivers closer to my ears and killed pretty much all of what little bass the SR-5 is capable of. It's too bad too because those Denon pads were way more comfy than the stock Stax pads.


----------



## astrostar59

edstrelow said:


> With some more than others. For example the 007A has a port so it will never be airtight.  The Mk1 I believe has no port.  Some Lambdas also have ports.


 
 The port in the 007A as we know affected the bass response amongst other things. IMO the pads on Stax headphones are like the design of a speaker box, years of testing and tweaking to get a uniform frequency response. It is not as simple a swopping pads, unless a huge amount of testing and tiny adjustments are going to be tried. I would leave well alone TBH unless you are wanting to do the (required) hours.


----------



## edstrelow

astrostar59 said:


> The port in the 007A as we know affected the bass response amongst other things. IMO the pads on Stax headphones are like the design of a speaker box, years of testing and tweaking to get a uniform frequency response. It is not as simple a swopping pads, unless a huge amount of testing and tiny adjustments are going to be tried. I would leave well alone TBH unless you are wanting to do the (required) hours.


 
 Playing with Stax pads is fairly expensive but if you have the money, try it and see.  You can always go back to the originals. However, my 007A's need new pads and I intend to replace them with stock pads.
  
 I have no problem tinkering with Staxen as you can see from my thread:    http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/damping-mechanical-energy-distortion-of-stax-and-other-phones-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials    However I generally use less than $12.00 of sorbothane for each phone and these mods are fully reversible.


----------



## arnaud

Ding dong! The monthly reminder


----------



## zolkis

bosiemoncrieff said:


> https://www.staxusa.com/parts/ear-pads/stax-sr-007-earpad.html
> 
> I found this for the SR-007. Do they also work on 009?


 
  
 Yes, with a bit of stretch. But it has slightly smaller internal volume than the 009 pads, smaller opening and higher, and changes the loading of the driver.
 The 009 pads do work on the 007, but I would not put the 007 pads on the 009. IMHO the 009 pads are the best pads ever made for a Stax, and in general is one of the best pads available.
 Also, it has perfect tuning for the 009. I have experimented a lot with various pad mods for the 009, and they have much less effect than on the 007 for instance.
 Only if you cannot get 009 pad replacement you should try fitting the 007 pads on the 009.


----------



## astrostar59

zolkis said:


> Yes, with a bit of stretch. But it has slightly smaller internal volume than the 009 pads, smaller opening and higher, and changes the loading of the driver.
> The 009 pads do work on the 007, but I would not put the 007 pads on the 009. IMHO the 009 pads are the best pads ever made for a Stax, and in general is one of the best pads available.
> Also, it has perfect tuning for the 009. I have experimented a lot with various pad mods for the 009, and they have much less effect than on the 007 for instance.
> Only if you cannot get 009 pad replacement you should try fitting the 007 pads on the 009.


 
 Don't the 007 pads have that flat section for ear alignment, unlike the 009s?
  
 Also I think the 007s are thicker at one end than the 009s, though the 009s are thicker at one end as well, just not as much.
  
 I wonder wether Stax have designed this for sonic reasons?


----------



## zolkis

astrostar59 said:


> Don't the 007 pads have that flat section for ear alignment, unlike the 009s?


 
 They do.
  


astrostar59 said:


> Also I think the 007s are thicker at one end than the 009s, though the 009s are thicker at one end as well, just not as much.


 
 Thicker both in front and back.
  


astrostar59 said:


> I wonder wether Stax have designed this for sonic reasons?


 
 Of course they did. They tend to do things with good sonic reasons . And they designed the 009 pads for (updated) sonic reasons as well, discarding the spring idea, making the opening larger, and the pads flatter. In my experience with pads, these all change the sound in the same direction that I also like: more open, clearer, more spacious, more transparent. 
  
 As far as pads go, IMHO the best designs are the HD800, then a big gap, then the 009, then come the rest. The Audeze pads I consider particularly bad sounding designs: too dark, too thick, too constrained. I wonder how an LCD3 would sound with the 009 pads...


----------



## JustinBieber

Since we are discussing earpads, does anyone know how to change an SR009 earpad? I can't find any instructions.


----------



## zolkis

When installed, the 009 pads flaps are between 2 metallic disks that are held together by 6 screws and press the pad's leather flap between them. Between the outer metallic plate and the pads inner surface are the grills.

For disassembling the pads, first you need to get the cloth grill screen out. It has a reinforcement ring on the outer perimeter, and the cloth is tensioned on that. Just put your finger under the pad until you feel the edge of the grill, then bend you finger to bend the grill, until it comes out. It will bend in about 90 degrees but it's quite flexible and you can restore it later, many times. 

When the grill is out, you see the metallic grid. You can try the headphones without the cloth grill. It will sound more open and more clear in the treble, but quantity will be too much.

With a finger slightly lift and pull away the pads. That will reveal the screws that hold the metallic disks together. Loosen the screws so that the disks come 2-4 mm apart.

Now put your finger under the pad, and pull it out until the circular flap comes out from between the two disks. Do that on the circumference and the pad is off.

After the pad is off, and you want to experiment with different pads, secure the screws again temporarily so that the 2 disks are not loose any more. For testing, it is enough to change the pads and then just press them against the driver and carefully put it on your head. It does sound slightly different when the pad is fully assembled, but it's really close and much better for testing than to assemble/disassemble the pads so many times.

To assemble, do the reverse steps: loosen the screws again so that the disks are 3-4 mm apart, then insert the pads's flap into the gap, going through the circumference. After it's on, pay attention to the orientation of the pads, and the position of the masking plastic strips in the bottom of the drivers where the opening for the cable is (you will see on the spot what I am talking about). After everything is in position, secure the screws, starting with one but don't tighten it yet, then secure the opposite side, and so on, jump always to the other side, just like when you are assembling a car wheel. This is to get the pressure even.

After the pad is on, reinsert the grill cloth. This is the most tricky part . I usually lift the pads with one hand, and push one edge of the grill in place. Then I bend the grill and push the edge which is about 90-120 degrees from the previous spot. The remaining edge is badly bent by this time, but don't be afraid of just pushing it into place. It slides smoothly on the metallic grill to go under the pads. After it's pushed in, go around the circumference of the grill and even out the plastic reinforcement.


----------



## zolkis

Of course, if your Stax dealer changes the pads for free (charging only the price of pads), which I think the practice is, then the procedure above is not needed to be done by you -- unless you want to experiment with pad mods, which I don't recommend in the case of the 009. AFAIK you can only obtain a pad from a Stax dealer.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I emailed stax USA but didn't hear back about whether or not they carry vegan (i.e. synthetic) pads.


----------



## Jones Bob

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I emailed stax USA but didn't hear back about whether or not they carry vegan (i.e. synthetic) pads.




Stax offers only leather skin contact pads for the SR-009.


----------



## mulveling

jones bob said:


> Stax offers only leather skin contact pads for the SR-009.


 
 You have to be a meat-eater to enjoy the apex, whether looking at the food-chain or Stax lineup.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but it seems like one of the only places to do so. Are the below Summit-Fi STAX headphones worth buying over something like the HD650? My friend and I went to an audio meet a couple of years ago and took turns listening to the SR-407 and SR-507. We were both impressed, but I definitely heard the "plastic" timbre people talk about. I've also heard claims of cheap components used in the amp units.
  
 Anyway, I'm considering eventually buying either a Valhalla 2 and HD650 setup or a SR-407 and SRM-323S setup, but I'm afraid that I'll get the STAX and be disappointed with their ability to play a wide variety of music well. Are the claims that others have made true or just hate for STAX in general?
  
 I'd appreciate any input if you guys don't mind.


----------



## Tinkerer

They definitely are. The STAX is the superior choice. But I would give the base set a try before committing to a 407 and larger amp. As is often the case with headphones, the more expensive options are not always the superior ones. It's a matter of taste.
  
 Ironically, the 207 is the most balanced of the *07 series even though it's the cheapest. And you can always get some 507 pads if you want the top tier comfort and seal. Other older lambdas of note are stuff like the LNS, 404 (which you can convert to 404LE with 507 pads), original normal bias lambda, and a couple others not including derivatives like the sigma series or the closed series.
  
 Other than the 323 which is a fine amp, the base unit 252 amp that comes in the 207 set is actually a good little amp as well, and can be improved markedly with a good diy power supply for cheap. Other nice common STAX amps include the old 717, 727 after feedback mod, T1 and SRM-1 if properly maintained, and even the ancient 10S/12S if you add in a modern probias board and socket. Then there's the fun of the pure DIY stuff that's a whole new level.
  
 But basically, if you have experience with headphones, you know the drill. Listen, listen some more, listen with something you are intimately familiar with and compare. Then pick what you like best.


----------



## astrostar59

toddthemetalgod said:


> I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but it seems like one of the only places to do so. Are the below Summit-Fi STAX headphones worth buying over something like the HD650? My friend and I went to an audio meet a couple of years ago and took turns listening to the SR-407 and SR-507. We were both impressed, but I definitely heard the "plastic" timbre people talk about. I've also heard claims of cheap components used in the amp units.
> 
> Anyway, I'm considering eventually buying either a Valhalla 2 and HD650 setup or a SR-407 and SRM-323S setup, but I'm afraid that I'll get the STAX and be disappointed with their ability to play a wide variety of music well. Are the claims that others have made true or just hate for STAX in general?
> 
> I'd appreciate any input if you guys don't mind.


 
 I think the 'issue' with the lower Stax models is they are at a low price point but are still very transparent (accurate in the higher registers), and if used with a similar budget source can reveal the weakness in that source especially a digital front end. IMO any of the Stax headphones are begging for a mid tier DAC as a starting point or it will not go well. Many other headphones (not all) can colour the sound and hide things, but with Stax headphones that is not going to happen.
  
 I would say try and get a used 717 or a used 727 and mod it, and use a decent (smooth) DAC and you will should be happy with any of the '07 range and may want to then move up to the 007A and different amps. It depends if you get the Stax sound and get the bug. I did, and many on here as well. Good luck.


----------



## troymadison

am I weird if I like the lambdas more than the omegas so far?


----------



## Pokemonn

astrostar59 said:


> I think the 'issue' with the lower Stax models is they are at a low price point but are still very transparent (accurate in the higher registers), and if used with a similar budget source can reveal the weakness in that source especially a digital front end. IMO any of the Stax headphones are begging for a mid tier DAC as a starting point or it will not go well. Many other headphones (not all) can colour the sound and hide things, but with Stax headphones that is not going to happen.


 
  I agree with you. I just got my Yggy DAC. with my SR-009 I can't stop listening to music... its magic!


----------



## Jones Bob

troymadison said:


> am I weird if I like the lambdas more than the omegas so far?




Not at all.


----------



## jibzilla

troymadison said:


> am I weird if I like the lambdas more than the omegas so far?


 
  
 The airbow sr-sc-11 and 404le are really great sounding headphones. I could see how on a more budget oriented setup one would prefer the lambda's. You have to like the 007 for comfort though or you really are weird.


----------



## Pahani

toddthemetalgod said:


> I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but it seems like one of the only places to do so. Are the below Summit-Fi STAX headphones worth buying over something like the HD650? My friend and I went to an audio meet a couple of years ago and took turns listening to the SR-407 and SR-507. We were both impressed, but I definitely heard the "plastic" timbre people talk about. I've also heard claims of cheap components used in the amp units.
> 
> Anyway, I'm considering eventually buying either a Valhalla 2 and HD650 setup or a SR-407 and SRM-323S setup, but I'm afraid that I'll get the STAX and be disappointed with their ability to play a wide variety of music well. Are the claims that others have made true or just hate for STAX in general?
> 
> I'd appreciate any input if you guys don't mind.


 
 I don't own HD650's, but I do own HD600. I only own the CHEAPEST Stax system, but I enjoy my Stax much more.
  
 HD 600 sounds very smooth and laid-back to me, where Stax sounds like it's more excitable cousin.
  
 Stax is my daily driver since I've had them, and at least to my ears, they do everything well, but they're not bass cannons if you're looking for that.


----------



## milosz

troymadison said:


> am I weird if I like the lambdas more than the omegas so far?


 
 Yes.


----------



## yates7592

troymadison said:


> am I weird if I like the lambdas more than the omegas so far?


 

 In what way(s) do you prefer them?


----------



## LaCuffia

Anybody know how the older 404 compares to the 207? I have the 207 now and wanted to know if a 404 would be an upgrade or not really. I would likely use it with the 252s amp until I am able to purchase a better one.


----------



## jibzilla

404 is not that great. 404le is much better


----------



## LaCuffia

The limited edition is also three times the price and hard to find. Might as well save up for an L700 in that case. To put my inquiry in perspective the 207 is my first Stax and I think it's great but for many on this forum it's like a bike with training wheels. I was just curios as to whether the 404 or 407 offers an appreciable upgrade in sound at a good value. So looking to see if I can take off the training wheels so to speak without too much of an investment ....


----------



## Pahani

lacuffia said:


> The limited edition is also three times the price and hard to find. Might as well save up for an L700 in that case. To put my inquiry in perspective the 207 is my first Stax and I think it's great but for many on this forum it's like a bike with training wheels. I was just curios as to whether the 404 or 407 offers an appreciable upgrade in sound at a good value. So looking to see if I can take off the training wheels so to speak without too much of an investment ....


 
 Uh huh. Another new 2170 system owner here. I'm so impressed with my lowly baby Stax that purchases of conventional headphones are now on hold indefinitely for me......I'm only looking at Stax upgrades, like LaCuffia.
  
 The people in this thread speak nearly an entirely different language from the rest of the HeadFi site. I've been lurking for over a month, hesitant to jump in.
  
 What would be helpful is if there were, somewhere, a comparison review of multiple Stax models vs each other. Yes yes, we (Stax newbies) get that the more expensive they are, the better it will likely sound; but how MUCH better, and in what way?
  
 I, for instance, will likely never own the "round" models. I'm a man of limited means, and they're waaaaay out of my price range! For myself, I'm interested in comparisons of the different "rectangular" models which largely go ignored in this thread.


----------



## LaCuffia

pahani said:


> Uh huh. Another new 2170 system owner here. I'm so impressed with my lowly baby Stax that purchases of conventional headphones are now on hold indefinitely for me......I'm only looking at Stax upgrades, like LaCuffia.
> 
> The people in this thread speak nearly an entirely different language from the rest of the HeadFi site. I've been lurking for over a month, hesitant to jump in.
> 
> ...


 

 I couldn't have said it better myself.  That's exactly what I'm looking for too.   
  
 I am in the same boat as you - no 007 or 009 for me.   But not adverse to investing in a higher Lamda model at some point.  However, if the consensus is "stick with the 2170" and it's the best value for the money, then that's fine.


----------



## 3X0

pahani said:


> The people in this thread speak nearly an entirely different language from the rest of the HeadFi site.


Unfortunately much of the language being spoken is balderdash.

My advice would be to research mindfully and draw your own conclusions where possible. There is plenty of Stax wisdom to be found hidden in plain sight and the challenge is sifting past the noise.


----------



## chinsettawong

IMO, the difference between entry level Stax headphones and the top of the line isn't night and day. 
  
 The difference is even less when you compare say SR207 to SR407 or SR507.


----------



## astrostar59

chinsettawong said:


> IMO, the difference between entry level Stax headphones and the top of the line isn't night and day.
> 
> The difference is even less when you compare say SR207 to SR407 or SR507.


 
 Sorry, disagree. I had 4 Lambda models ending with the LNS unit, then a 507 for a short while, then the 007 MK2.5, 007A 2015 and the 009. Until I got to the 007 I hadn't been convinced of the Stax bass response at all amongst other things. Yes the Lambda frame units are airy, good soundstage width and on some music types very good indeed. But they didn't sound right / accurate to me. And the Lambda's I had all had an upper treble coldness / etch that exaggerated any DAC / Digital issues.
  
 The 007 and 009 need good amps to really deliver, and then they are miles ahead (all IMO). Having said that, the X07 units can make folk happy, as they do some things really well, just not all the things I wanted from my music.


----------



## landroni

pahani said:


> I, for instance, will likely never own the "round" models. I'm a man of limited means, and they're waaaaay out of my price range! For myself, I'm interested in comparisons of the different "rectangular" models which largely go ignored in this thread.


 

 The Entry level Stax thread may be a happier hunting ground, then:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/676272/the-entry-level-stax-thread


----------



## LaCuffia

I find the low end of the 207 to be really nice.  It has just enough heft for me.  If bass response is supposed to be a weak point of the Lambda series in general, that's good news to me.  I tried a couple of planars (PM-3, 400s) and wasn't all that wowed with the bass anyway. 
  
 The Entry Level thread doesn't get much activity, so that's why I posted here.


----------



## Pahani

landroni said:


> The Entry level Stax thread may be a happier hunting ground, then:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/676272/the-entry-level-stax-thread


 
 Ahhh! I did not know of that thread, thanks!


----------



## di_andrei

chinsettawong said:


> IMO, the difference between entry level Stax headphones and the top of the line isn't night and day.
> 
> The difference is even less when you compare say SR207 to SR407 or SR507.


 
 That's my experience as well, as a former "square" and current "round" user. My decision to get a 007 probably had more to do with fit and ergonomics than it had to do with my perception of better sound quality compared to the 407/507. To me, the differences are very small. But the 009 fits my head and ears so comfortably, I might just have to get one at some point.


----------



## landroni

di_andrei said:


> That's my experience as well, as a former "square" and current "round" user. My decision to get a 007 probably had more to do with fit and ergonomics than it had to do with my perception of better sound quality compared to the 407/507. To me, the differences are very small. But the 009 fits my head and ears so comfortably, I might just have to get one at some point.


 

 What amplification did you use with the squares and the rounds?


----------



## potkettleblack

I've read through the thread but would love some more input on the 727 unmodded when paired with 007.

I would have to buy this blind.

Any issues with volume breakup, shoutiness at higher volumes, how does it affect the treble?

I noticed when I used the 007 with the 353x it wasn't great but it made the treble (though less refined) more appealing than the 006t. I'm guessing this what happens when it's combined with a SS amp (in general I have no idea what I'm talking about).


----------



## astrostar59

Not sure about the 727, but the 717 which sounds better is so so with the 007 IMO, not enough juice. They sound a bit sloppy and lack dynamics. Winding them up more reduces the dynamics and the treble increases but not the bass i.e tipped up balance. Do you have to buy the Stax amp? 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/813110/kgss-stax-007a#post_12697240
  
 May be others for sale if you dig around. I would look for a KGSS or KGSShv TBH.
  
 Good luck


----------



## potkettleblack

It would have to be Astro I'm afraid. I would get full support from my dealer if anything were to go wrong. That's not to say guys on here that do the amps can't be trusted, but for that price I'm not too comfortable taking the risk.

Edit: there's modded 727 on his site that is very tempting for that price.

I'm in two minds to sell my Abyss and will be going to my headphone shop this Saturday to hear the L700 and 006t (again).

This game is so frustrating man.


----------



## Arthrumus

astrostar59 said:


> Not sure about the 727, but the 717 which sounds better is so so with the 007 IMO, not enough juice. They sound a bit sloppy and lack dynamics. Winding them up more reduces the dynamics and the treble increases but not the bass i.e tipped up balance. Do you have to buy the Stax amp?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/813110/kgss-stax-007a#post_12697240
> 
> ...


 
 According to spritzer once modded the 727 is better than the 717 in every way due to the the fact that it is essentially the same design except fully CCS loaded. I've never had the chance to hear a 717, but my modded 727 sounds wonderful and I think it would be safe for me to defer to spritzer's opinion on this one. I don't have a 007 yet but I bought this 727 with the goal of acquiring a 007 in the future.


----------



## rgs9200m

Has anyone gotten their Staxes "spruced up" from Stax to check for things like channel imbalance or just functioning is new-condition? How easy is it to get service from Stax (USA) if desired?


----------



## Michgelsen

potkettleblack said:


> It would have to be Astro I'm afraid. I would get full support from my dealer if anything were to go wrong. That's not to say guys on here that do the amps can't be trusted, but for that price I'm not too comfortable taking the risk.
> 
> Edit: there's modded 727 on his site that is very tempting for that price.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you buy from Headamp, you can probably get 'full support' and buy a new, modded 727, I think. Justin is a authorized Stax dealer and surely competent enough to do the mod for you. I don't know, but he may still give you full warranty if he does the mod himself. You could ask him.


----------



## JimL11

potkettleblack said:


> I've read through the thread but would love some more input on the 727 unmodded when paired with 007.
> 
> I would have to buy this blind.
> 
> ...


 

 By all accounts the unmodded 727 is worse than the 323 with the SR007 - overblown bass and bright sounding, while with the spritzer mod (basically adding overall feedback to the amp) gets rid of the bloated bass and brightnessimproves it to the best of the Stax amps for the 007, slightly warm sounding according to spritzer.  The mod itself is relatively simple, but it does void the warranty.  I did it on a used 727 and it does sound pretty good, but not as good as an SRX Plus - a couple friends and I compared the two directly using SR-007 Mk I and II with port mod.


----------



## potkettleblack

Thanks for the info mate. This is the concern really... In case something goes wrong. This boils down to my inability to take the jump (risk) despite Sritzer having a good reputation and him being very helpful to me in the past.

The predicament is basically wanting both the 007 and L700 but knowing it will most probably need two amps.

The 007 sounded great on 006t (to me) but was very dark and would always wanting me yearning for more out of the treble.

The L700 only sounded good to me on the 006t but shouty and glarey on the 353X.

The 007 sounded different on the 353X - the treble sounded less refined but more pleasing because it had clearly more sparkle, but sounded strain and lost its liquid sound when it came to vocals like it did on the 006t.

Funnily I found the 007 kimik the worst on the 009, 007 and L700 than both the 006t and 353X. Any volume adjustment just tore them all apart - even the L700.

For those that are interested the L500 sounded fantastic out of the 006t. Understanding you need a stat amp for it - for the price it was remarkable given the price of the competition out there now.

I will not be able to audition the 727 with the 007 and buying blind is risky for me, and may even actually prefer the unmodified version to the 353X and 006t... Which is a shame.


----------



## Michgelsen

Within the current and previous-generation Stax amps, a modded 727 is the safest bet for a one-amp solution. My advice would be to get that, or a 717, and try the 007 and L700 on it. Else you need to buy multiple amps second hand and sell what you don't like. Could be fun, but will be a hassle for sure.


----------



## jibzilla

I really liked the airbow sr-sc-11 and 009 with the 727. 007mk1 and 2(sz3) not so much. For the 007 I like my mjolnir kgsshv full size. At least with my Pavane I had a really hard time choosing between the 009 and 007mk1 with the kgsshv full size. With the 007mk1 winning in comfort and the fact that I could easily build a $25-50k setup around the sr-009 I went with the 007mk1.


----------



## Tinkerer

potkettleblack said:


> I've read through the thread but would love some more input on the 727 unmodded when paired with 007.
> 
> I would have to buy this blind.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had a 007 Mk I early and a 727A unmodded at the same time. Sounded awful dark and muddy compared to my restored 12S and my KGSSHV. Terrible combination. Seems more like something geared for a lambda or a 009.
  
 However, then I did the feedback mod and it improved tremendously. Still preferred the other two amps but it was more articulate than the 12S, just softer. KGSSHV did everything better than both though.


----------



## Joeybgood

I know this is OT so please respond via PM . Just wondering if anyone has heard the Senn HE-60 and what you can tell me about it? I see them popping on here and other audio resale sites and wondering what their sound is  reminiscent of in relation to  other well known, higher end Stax cans? and if folks feel they are worth the $2000+ price that they are routinely listed at. tks


----------



## Sorrodje

My thoughts about HE60 (still valid after 6 month of ownership) :
  


> - Overall very good FR with no obvious flaws. Bit brighter than HD600 though but not as bright as I read here or there. Can't talk for the Stock amp. It's still boxed and will stay so. Neutral/bright overall FR with gobs of air.
> - Does not convey so much the typical Stat coloration. very good point considering I always struggle with this when I listen to Stax Headphones.
> - Still a bit thin/light though with lack of overall impact.
> - Definitely not for people who like warmth. not to mention syrupy coloration.
> ...


 
  
  
 Measurements can be found here or there but here's some comparison on my own measurements rig ( grain of salt mandatory, Stats are hard to measure accurately) :
  

 Forget the dip in the 009 FR . it's a measurement artifact.


----------



## Joeybgood

sorrodje said:


> My thoughts about HE60 (still valid after 6 month of ownership) :
> 
> 
> 
> Measurements can be found here or there.


 
 Hugely informative and helpful. Much tks!!! I was looking at posts from around 2005 and folks were paying $700 or so for it. a HIGH asking price was $1000. MY what a difference a decade makes. Think I'll sit this one out. again.. very much appreciate your feedback.


----------



## ericj

Anyone want to suggest a gray market source for a replacement SR-001 Mk2 cable? 
  
 In hopes of it being cheaper than what Yamas wants for one, obviously. 
  
 I've enquired with pricejapan and audiocubes2 - no responses yet. Yamas got right back to me, but their price is pretty high compared to just buying another sr-001 mk2 used.


----------



## Arthrumus

sorrodje said:


> My thoughts about HE60 (still valid after 6 month of ownership) :
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Good impressions. I'm curious have you ever heard the Normal Bias Lambda? The way you describe Stax mids is certainly true of the newer Lambdas that I've heard (SR-X07 series) but midrange smoothness on the original Lambda is phenomenal. If you've never heard them I highly recommend picking up a pair when one comes up for sale. 

Also I assume that you acquired your 007 after you wrote these impressions. Do you have any thoughts about the 007 compared to the HE60?


----------



## JK-47

arthrumus said:


> Good impressions. I'm curious have you ever heard the Normal Bias Lambda? The way you describe Stax mids is certainly true of the newer Lambdas that I've heard (SR-X07 series) but midrange smoothness on the original Lambda is phenomenal. If you've never heard them I highly recommend picking up a pair when one comes up for sale.
> 
> Also I assume that you acquired your 007 after you wrote these impressions. Do you have any thoughts about the 007 compared to the HE60?




You can rest assured he has tried the normal bias lambda's as well as almost everything Stax has produced


----------



## rgs9200m

You know, when using SACD discs in my chain of an EMM CDP --> KGSShv Mini --> (current version) SR007 phones produces absolutely brilliant, breathtaking sound.
 Maybe things could be improved, but somehow this just feels like just plain super-great, for lack of a better technical term. Just my 2 cents. 
 (I do toss in some nice Stealth interconnects for best results after a lot of experimentation, along with some old Shunyata anaconda power cords FWIW for full disclosure.)
 So no tubes, a modest amp, and great results where I don't want to change a thing as long as I have an SACD (too bad there is not more DSD music of course, but there is still a tremendous amount of music to float my boat with this approach).
  
 I wanted to amend this post to say that regular 16/44 CDs sound very good to excellent also in this system, so I'm not knocking redbook too much here. The SR007 2.5 is a real gem. A decent amp and a really good DAC or player is the key it seems.
 (I did some testing after I wrote my original comment before I added this.)


----------



## Sorrodje

@Arthrumus: yes . i owned the Lambda Normal bias and it's my fav Lambda with the lambda Signature. but it still conveys a typical Stax sound I appreciate for what it is but that I'm not fond of as much as many people here. 
  
 I purchased the 007 mkII a few month after my HE60 indeed,  I applied the Spritzer mod and i now appreciate it much more than before the mod.  I still don't think my SRM-T1 does it enough justice and to be fair I'm still on the fence with that 007.  For sure, in my opinion, Omegas are much better than any Lambda, even if the 007 warmer sound sig is not my fav. I'm more into brighter sound sig and my Favorite Stax thus far is still the 009 by a fair margin. That been said, I really appreciate a lot the 007 ( imaging and Soundstage are really good imo) and I'm still considering to keep it as a nice complement for my HD800SD and my HE60 when I'm in the mood for some genre I listen less often.  Considering my musical tastes , especially modern Jazz recorded since 90s,  brighter headphones suit perfectly my needs.  Hope that makes sense for you.


----------



## Arthrumus

I get what you're saying. You're probably right about the T1. By all accounts it seems it just doesn't have quite enough guts to bring the 007 to its full potential. That's the reason I recently upgraded from an srm1-mk2 to a modded 727, an SR-007 is in my future.


----------



## Sorrodje

@Arthrumus : I have a SRX plus that will come soon  . It should help to bring the 007 closer to its full potential. @JimL11 seems to be happy with this combination.


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## Arthrumus

That's wonderful. I recently began the very slow process of building an SRX plus as well. It's my first electrostatic amp build so I plan to take it slow. I will look forward to reading your impressions of the amp when it arrives.


----------



## Michgelsen

sorrodje said:


> My thoughts about HE60 (still valid after 6 month of ownership) :
> 
> (...)


 
  
 I agree with most of this, especially that the mids are the strongest point of the HE60. It does magical things to voices and classical instruments: best I've ever heard anywhere. So touching and conveying emotions. Futhermore the amount of air is spectacular. However, I would definitely describe the HE60 as bass light. This is a relative and highly personal term, and it's fine if someone does not find it bass light, but to give people a fair impression I feel the need to add that *IMO* the HE60 is bass light and mid/high centric, and that I think a lot of people would agree with me on hearing a HE60 next to other headphones. Its bass is still enjoyable and good (tight, well-controlled), so you could definitely live with the HE60 as your only, very good pair of headphones. If you get a HE60 without hearing it first, you may be disappointed however if you expected more bass. There's less bass than a Lambda (LS, 202, 207 for example) gives you, to put things in perspective.


----------



## JimL11

sorrodje said:


> @Arthrumus : I have a SRX plus that will come soon  . It should help to bring the 007 closer to its full potential. @JimL11 seems to be happy with this combination.


 

 That's true, I do like it, but of course I designed the modification so I'm biased.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I will say that some of my friends listened to it compared to a Stax SRM-T1 and a modded SRM-727 (spritzer mod adding in global feedback) and felt it was better than either using both SR007 Mk I and modded Mk II (spritzer port mod) phones.  Hope to have some comparisons with a KGST a friend built with KGSSHV PS (better than the usual KGBH PS) and upgraded low voltage PS using Belleson regulators (designed by Walt Jung) which should be equivalent to the Golden Ref LV PS this weekend.
  
 Incidentally, on the other website, Mike (mwl168) and congo5 have said some nice things about the SRX Plus sound.  They have built a number of Gilmore designs including the KGST, KGSSHV and Carbon (Mwl168) and Megatron, KGSSHV, and KGST (congo5) for direct comparison.


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## Blackmore

What amp / driver unit SRX exactly is, anyone who can post pic of the original please, seems that I cant find any of such from this list
  
http://www.stax.co.jp/Export/History.html


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## Sorrodje

@Michgelsen : IMO and IME my HE60 is not bass light. Surely lacking heft , tautness and impact but I suspect the amp it at least partly responsible of that.  my Senn was services recently wit new O-rings though.  @Ali-Pacha heard it when we spent a whole day to compare and measure his stable of Stax  . For sure , it's not 009 bass but I don't feel bass is lacking that much. For the record, I'm surely not into warm sound sig , not to mention bassy ones so maybe i'm biased.


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## JimL11

blackmore said:


> What amp / driver unit SRX exactly is, anyone who can post pic of the original please, seems that I cant find any of such from this list
> 
> http://www.stax.co.jp/Export/History.html


 

 SRX was the name of an early top-of-the-line Stax headphones, which went through three Mk versions plus a pro version.  It is also the name of a Stax DIY headphone amp schematic which Stax published around 1968.  It was never built by Stax.  Do a Google search using "Stax SRX amplifier" and it will turn up.  This simple schematic formed the "skeleton" of the Stax SRM-T2, a highly complex, legendary amp state of the art design that was a cause of the original Stax going bankrupt.  The Stax T2 replaced the coupling capacitors in the SRX schematic with a whole bunch of solid state parts to allow the entire amp to be DC coupled from input to output.  It used a simple passive power supply, and enclosed four EL34 output tubes inside a box, allowing you to use it to fry eggs as a bonus. The DIY T2 designed by Kevin Gilmore using the exact Stax T2 amp schematic but with greatly enhanced regulated power supply is still considered state-of-the art.  The SRX Plus is my modification of the original circuit to use cascoded MOSFET current sources and a simple shunt regulated power supply.  This significantly enhances its performance while maintaining its simplicity and sonic character, and brings it up to modern standards.  It is DIY only, but is designed to achieve Stereophile Class B performance:  "the next best thing to the best for much less money."


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## kevin gilmore

birgir just got one of these, its the right idea, but at the moment is dead
https://world.taobao.com/item/529487684775.htm?fromSite=main&spm=2013.1.w4023-8303326841.4.NZ9TvG
  
 at least its cheap
  
 6c5 on the outputs with 10m90s current source
 ecc83 inputs with tail current source


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## plektret

Has anyone had any response from Pricejapan during the past month?
I ordered L700/353X from them 3 weeks ago, but there's no communication from them whatsoever.
Unfortunately I made the bank wire payment right after I placed the order. Should I be worried? Has anyone tried to fax them?


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## joseph69

plektret said:


> Has anyone had any response from Pricejapan during the past month?
> I ordered L700/353X from them 3 weeks ago, but there's no communication from them whatsoever.
> Unfortunately I made the bank wire payment right after I placed the order. Should I be worried? Has anyone tried to fax them?


 
 I ordered 3 times from PJ (PayPal) and never had any issues. 1 time I had to wait about 10 days before I received a shipping notice for the 007-A.


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## paradoxper

I believe they don't hold stock. So there may be some delay while they source whatever you ordered.


----------



## plektret

paradoxper said:


> I believe they don't hold stock. So there may be some delay while they source whatever you ordered.



 
Yes I know, but they don't respond to any of my questions. Not even when I ask for a confirmation that the payment arrived to the correct bank account. I've ordered from twice before without any problems. This is very worrisome.


----------



## paradoxper

> Yes I know, but they don't respond to any of my questions. Not even when I ask for a confirmation that the payment arrived to the correct bank account. I've ordered from twice before without any problems. This is very worrisome.


 
 Simple slack in CS, no real surprise. Hang in there.


----------



## Michgelsen

kevin gilmore said:


> birgir just got one of these, its the right idea, but at the moment is dead
> https://world.taobao.com/item/529487684775.htm?fromSite=main&spm=2013.1.w4023-8303326841.4.NZ9TvG
> 
> at least its cheap
> ...


 
  
 Looks a bit like it's made by Nagra, though I'm sure the quality is different.


----------



## juantendo8

plektret said:


> Has anyone had any response from Pricejapan during the past month?
> I ordered L700/353X from them 3 weeks ago, but there's no communication from them whatsoever.
> Unfortunately I made the bank wire payment right after I placed the order. Should I be worried? Has anyone tried to fax them?


 
  
 I actually ordered the L700 from PJ at about the exact same time as you did. And I'm in the same exact same boat. They will not respond to emails. This is my first order with them, but I have kind of resigned myself to the fact that they're either having stock and/or communication issues. I might have to step in if more than a month passes by and I still have not heard a word from them. I really would rather not have it come to that.


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## joseph69

Any time I e-mailed PJ they contacted me within 24hrs.
 Did you get a payment confirmation?


----------



## juantendo8

joseph69 said:


> Any time I e-mailed PJ they contacted me within 24hrs.
> Did you get a payment confirmation?


 
  
 I did a few hours after I ordered. They stated that the order may need a little longer to ship than normal, around 1 week. Unfortunately, that's the last that I ever heard from them.


----------



## plektret

joseph69 said:


> Any time I e-mailed PJ they contacted me within 24hrs.
> 
> 
> Did you get a payment confirmation?



 

They only response I've had from them was the automatic order confirmation (so I know the order went through). I've tried all of their 3 email addresses (mail,info,order). I'll try and fax them next week if they haven't responded.

I've found this link where a guy says he's waited 2 months without a response:
http://www.arnaques-internet.info/arnaque-9738.html


----------



## joseph69

juantendo8 said:


> Originally Posted by *plektret* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


 
 As long as the order was confirmed I would give it some time as @paradoxper recommended.


----------



## TraneTime

kevin gilmore said:


> birgir just got one of these, its the right idea, but at the moment is dead
> https://world.taobao.com/item/529487684775.htm?fromSite=main&spm=2013.1.w4023-8303326841.4.NZ9TvG
> 
> at least its cheap
> ...


 
 It will be interesting to find out how well it works once he gets it running.  It's a real looker too.  For all of Stax virtues, looks isn't one of them.  Also, the price is right!


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## Blackmore

Thank you very much for your reply, clear. And yes, I already found that scematic. Still, would be interesting to see the amp and inside work of it.
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


jiml11 said:


> SRX was the name of an early top-of-the-line Stax headphones, which went through three Mk versions plus a pro version.  It is also the name of a Stax DIY headphone amp schematic which Stax published around 1968.  It was never built by Stax.  Do a Google search using "Stax SRX amplifier" and it will turn up.  This simple schematic formed the "skeleton" of the Stax SRM-T2, a highly complex, legendary amp state of the art design that was a cause of the original Stax going bankrupt.  The Stax T2 replaced the coupling capacitors in the SRX schematic with a whole bunch of solid state parts to allow the entire amp to be DC coupled from input to output.  It used a simple passive power supply, and enclosed four EL34 output tubes inside a box, allowing you to use it to fry eggs as a bonus. The DIY T2 designed by Kevin Gilmore using the exact Stax T2 amp schematic but with greatly enhanced regulated power supply is still considered state-of-the art.  The SRX Plus is my modification of the original circuit to use cascoded MOSFET current sources and a simple shunt regulated power supply.  This significantly enhances its performance while maintaining its simplicity and sonic character, and brings it up to modern standards.  It is DIY only, but is designed to achieve Stereophile Class B performance:  "the next best thing to the best for much less money."


----------



## Blackmore

Price is scary low, cant be any good. Probably, when Birgir open up the amp, there was a little guy inside who said: "What did you expect?'
  
 Quote:


tranetime said:


> It will be interesting to find out how well it works once he gets it running.  It's a real looker too.  For all of Stax virtues, looks isn't one of them.  Also, the price is right!


----------



## jibzilla

Even today English to Japanese translation is horrible. If you ever want a laugh check out aledo (yahoo japan). Some of translations on there are hilarious to say the least. Probably why they did not respond to your email(s). Therefore junk, don't buy


----------



## greggf

I'm guessing - only guessing - that PriceJapan and AudioCubes2 go into "quiet mode" when the Yen/Dollar ratio is unfavorable to them.  They pretend to not be there until they can make money on transactions.


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## PATB

I just checked my last year's transaction with PJ to get an SR-009.  I received a total of 2 emails: 1 email/order confirmation after paying and then 1 more email/shipping notice 10 days later.


----------



## JimL11

kevin gilmore said:


> birgir just got one of these, its the right idea, but at the moment is dead
> https://world.taobao.com/item/529487684775.htm?fromSite=main&spm=2013.1.w4023-8303326841.4.NZ9TvG
> 
> at least its cheap
> ...


 

 Most likely a variation of  the Egmont/TubeCAD amp.  10M90S constant current source (CCS) is a good idea, congo5 modded an Egmont with cascoded CCS and reported good results, and a single 10M90s CCS is partway there.  But 6C5 not so good - max plate voltage 300V, plate dissipation 2.5 watts max, two output tubes combined have lower voltage and dissipation specs than a single 6CG7/6FQ7 used in the Stax tube amps, which is not exactly a powerhouse tube.  For $420 it's probably OK - if it's working.  Have to  see if the internals are adequately spec'ed so it doesn't blow up, catch fire, or other fun things.


----------



## joseph69

jibzilla said:


> Even today English to Japanese translation is horrible. If you ever want a laugh check out aledo (yahoo japan). Some of translations on there are hilarious to say the least. Probably why they did not respond to your email(s). Therefore junk, don't buy


 
 All e-mails I received from PJ were in well written English.


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## kevin gilmore

http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/dsc00034.jpg
http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/dsc00040.jpg
  
 significant output dc, and the balanced inputs don't work.
 output stage power significantly limited, 4 x 10m90s on a single piece of metal
  
 will see what modifications can be done
  
 power supply +310v, -390v


----------



## TraneTime

Just saw Birgir's comments on the Taobao on HC.  It's a lost cause.  Even the case is no good! Oh well. My 006tS may not look like much but it sure gets the job done with an L700.


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## bmichels

Jut got notice that my BHSE is almost ready   
  
 I'm very excited...  the BHSE is indeed a piece of art.  
  
 I just hope that after all those years the BHSE is still the best AMP to drive a SR009 and that the KGSShv Carbon  is not the new king in town


----------



## paradoxper

bmichels said:


> Jut got notice that my BHSE is almost ready
> 
> I'm very excited...  the BHSE is indeed a piece of art.
> 
> I just hope that after all those years the BHSE is still the best AMP to drive a SR009 and that the KGSShv Carbon  is not the new king in town


 
 Just enjoy what you have or buy a Carbon to compare. Your back and forth mentality is exhausting.


----------



## purk

bmichels said:


> Jut got notice that my BHSE is almost ready
> 
> I'm very excited...  the BHSE is indeed a piece of art.
> 
> I just hope that after all those years the BHSE is still the best AMP to drive a SR009 and that the KGSShv Carbon  is not the new king in town


 
 I think the two are very very neck to neck but you can always roll tubes on the BHSE to match your system better.  With the BHSE, you need to run some good tubes.  I can see the Carbon to exceed the BHSE with stock tube.  Of course, nothing is build like the BHSE....so be proud of that.


----------



## Blackmore

A quad of NOS metal based EL34 Philips would kick your wallet for another USD1k.
  
 Wonder if you, or any  BSHE owner, have ever tried NOS Brown baseTesla's. When I owned PrimaLuna Prolouge integrated, these Tesla's were just step behind my beloved NOS GEC KT88 and thats impressive.
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


purk said:


> I think the two are very very neck to neck but you can always roll tubes on the BHSE to match your system better.  With the BHSE, you need to run some good tubes.  I can see the Carbon to exceed the BHSE with stock tube.  Of course, nothing is build like the BHSE....so be proud of that.


----------



## bmichels

blackmore said:


>


 
  
 Are the NOS metal based EL34 Philips considered as one of the best tube choice for the BHSE ?  How does it improve on the stock tubes (for SR009) ?


----------



## AnakChan

blackmore said:


>





> A quad of NOS metal based EL34 Philips would kick your wallet for another USD1k.


 
  
 I think it's  lot more than that. Each time I search for the EL34 metal NOS, it's like $600 a pop (coming up to $2400 for 4) - matched though, naturally.


----------



## Spork67

Hey STAXophilles, I hope someone can answer a couple of questions for me.
  
 I've just bought a pair of SR-507's for what seems to be a very good price.
  
 My questions:
 1) Will my Grace Design / massdrop m9XX DAC/amp have enough power to run these?
 2) Do all of the Stax adapters work with all of the headphones, or are they model specific?
 3) Will an adapter brought from the US (110VAC) work in Australia (220-240VAC)? Are they switchable / universal, or do I need one that was made specifically for Australian or European market?
 4) If they are universal / switchable voltage, I will have a few to choose from. How does one determine what model is better / lesser than another model?


----------



## Arthrumus

spork67 said:


> Hey STAXophilles, I hope someone can answer a couple of questions for me.
> 
> I've just bought a pair of SR-507's for what seems to be a very good price.
> 
> ...


 
 The nature of your questions suggest that you probably should have done more research before buying. But since you've already bought the headphones, I'll try to get you on the right track.
  
 1) No, your M9xx is in no way compatible with electrostatic headphones except as a DAC to feed a separate amping solution. Electrostatic headphones require extremely high voltage (well in excess of +/-1Kv peak to peak) to operate so normal headphone amps can't be made to work. You specifically need either an amplifier built for electrostatic headphones or an energizer/adapter to use a loudspeaker amplifier.
  
 2) There are two bias voltage standards that Stax has used, and these are what determine compatibility. Normal Bias (230V) and Pro Bias (580V). Normal Bias headphones only work on amps and energizers that have normal bias sockets (6 pin) Pro Bias headphones work in both Pro Bias (5 pin) and Normal Bias sockets, however they will be less sensitive and generally perform poorly when plugged into a normal bias socket so it's not really recommended. Your SR-507 is Pro Bias. 
  
 3) If by adapter you mean an energizer such as the SRD-7, which is just a transformer box designed to step up the voltage of a separate loudspeaker amplifier to levels that the headphones can use then yes, they will work with any voltage standard around the world. They have zener diodes on the input which limits the power to 100V no matter what you plug them into.
  
 If you are talking about full fledged Stax amplifiers then it's a little more tricky. Some older models like the SRM-1 MK2 and SRM-T1 have a voltage switch on the back that you can change to the appropriate voltage for your country, but Stax has stopped putting that option on newer amps, and have even gone so far as to use transformers that do not have the correct windings to even be internally modified to work with voltage standards other than what was set at the factory.
  
 4) Impressions of the various amps that Stax has made are all over this and other headphone websites, but generally speaking if you are willing to buy used/vintage, you can't go wrong with the SRM-1 MK2 Professional  The SRM-T1 is also well liked, though usually more expensive. If you want to buy new the SRM-323s/353x are considered to be the best sounding amps that Stax currently makes, and they are not terribly expensive either. 
  
 In summary, you need a Pro Bias equipped amp solution, either an SRD-7 Professional energizer plus a speaker amp, or one of the dedicated amps I mentioned above. If your Grace M9XX has line out it can be used as the source in your setup, but nothing more. If you buy a non voltage switchable amp from a country other than your own you will need a step up/down transformer to use the amp in your country. That's about it. Welcome to the world of E-stats, it's a great place to be!


----------



## Blackmore

I have no idea as I never tried BHSE with any tube combination. I simply asked this question, because Purk wrote that you need best possible EL34 and Philips seems to be one of them.
  
 Quote:


bmichels said:


> Are the NOS metal based EL34 Philips considered as one of the best tube choice for the BHSE ?  How does it improve on the stock tubes (for SR009) ?


 
  
  
  If thats the situation, then trying NOS Tesla's would be my first choice, if I was looking for reasonable priced NOS EL34.
  
 THX
  
 Quote:


anakchan said:


> I think it's  lot more than that. Each time I search for the EL34 metal NOS, it's like $600 a pop (coming up to $2400 for 4) - matched though, naturally.


----------



## Spork67

arthrumus said:


> The nature of your questions suggest that you probably should have done more research before buying. But since you've already bought the headphones, I'll try to get you on the right track.
> 
> 1) No, your M9xx is in no way compatible with electrostatic headphones except as a DAC to feed a separate amping solution. Electrostatic headphones require extremely high voltage (well in excess of +/-1Kv peak to peak) to operate so normal headphone amps can't be made to work. You specifically need either an amplifier built for electrostatic headphones or an energizer/adapter to use a loudspeaker amplifier.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks.
 I thought I just needed the Stax energiser, but sounds like I also need a full size (not just headphone) amp as well.
 So: Source > m9XX (as DAC only) > (full size) amp > Stax energiser > headphones?
  
 I sold my Hi-fi gear years and years ago. Only amp's in the house now (apart from little headphone amps) are surround sound amps for the TV's. These can be used as stereo amps, so might try this (still need the Stax energiser) to see how I like it, and look at a proper stereo amp later on.


----------



## Arthrumus

spork67 said:


> Thanks.
> I thought I just needed the Stax energiser, but sounds like I also need a full size (not just headphone) amp as well.
> So: Source > m9XX (as DAC only) > (full size) amp > Stax energiser > headphones?
> 
> I sold my Hi-fi gear years and years ago. Only amp's in the house now (apart from little headphone amps) are surround sound amps for the TV's. These can be used as stereo amps, so might try this (still need the Stax energiser) to see how I like it, and look at a proper stereo amp later on.


 
 That will work. My first Stax setup was like that, an old Sony home theater receiver connected to an SRD-6. You will definitely get better sound from a higher quality amp but there's nothing wrong with starting out cheap. Also Tripath TA2020 based amps sound surprisingly good with Stax headphones and can generally be bought new for well under $100, that was my second configuration before upgrading to an SRM-1 Mk2, and I still think it sounds great.


----------



## purk

I'm running a match quad of Holland brown base EL34 XF4 and quite happy with the results.  I have never tried the metal base and will not due to price....however the difference is within 5-10% according to somone who own both set of tubes.  I paid $600 for my Quad but that was couple of years ago.


----------



## Tadamn

purk said:


> I'm running a match quad of Holland brown base EL34 XF4 and quite happy with the results.  I have never tried the metal base and will not due to price....however the difference is within 5-10% according to somone who own both set of tubes.  I paid $600 for my Quad but that was couple of years ago.


 

 I've one which I received as a gift. You can borrow it from me for a few days.


----------



## juantendo8

Well, I think I'm going to pull the plug on my PriceJapan order. There have been too many recent accounts of them never shipping or replying to recent customers. Regardless of how reliable they have been in the past for others, they have clearly been terrible recently. A month, many emails, and no replies yet, I'm afraid that I'm getting scammed here. Even the prices on their products have not been updated in quite a while. Hopefully I can get my money back quickly and easily. The premium to buy locally is worth skipping this hassle and stress.
  
 I have no vendetta against them, but I would heavily recommend steering clear of them for now. At least until they have proven that they have gotten their sh** together once again. Or that they still exist.


----------



## Pokemonn

Japanese Yen getting stronger...some economist predict Japanese Yen will rise around 1US$=50yen(now 1$=100yen) near future...
 please order your staxes quickly!


----------



## ctemkin

Bmichels,
  
 There is a lot of information on tube-rolling for the BHSE in the BHSE thread itself and also in a separate thread on BHSE tube rolling.
  
 Based on the information in those threads, I bought four vintage Valvo EL34's with DD getters.  NOS without the N.  Valvo is one the various labels that denote Phillips/Mullard, so far as I understand.  
  
 I have been delighted with them.  They do sound noticeably better to me than the stock tubes, although that could be due to my system, my ears, or self-justification, for all I know.


----------



## angeche

I have just received my new Shure 1500 KSE. They sound great, better than the Stax SRS-002 I also own (the baby Stax) and it is far more comfortable (the maximum I can stand the baby Stax is an hour!). Not sure they sound 2000 dollars better but that is, as we all know, another issue. 
  
 I also own a Stax Sr-009, coupled with a Stax SRM727II, a Sony PHA3 and an iMac (software is Audirvana). By no means and IMHO the KSE 1500 sound as good as the Stax Sr-009.
  
 The KSE 1500 is great for having the best quality on the move. when coupled with my Sony NW-ZX2 or my Onkyo DP-X1. and I love electrostatic sound. I have 3000 dollars less but I am happy. At home? No doubt, the Stax SR-009


----------



## Spork67

*STAX SRM 1-MKII*
 In keeping with the theory "the only stupid question is one you don't ask" - Do any of the STAX amp's have a built-in DAC, or are they designed to be fed an analogue signal from the source?
 I'm eyeing off an older SRM 1-MKII (with both pro and standard outputs), or for a few hundred more I could get a current model SRM-252S. If the latter has a built-in DAC (good quality) I could almost justify the extra $.
  
 Can anyone confirm that my DAC/amp (Grace Design x Massdrop m9XX DAC/Amp ) will play nicely with the SRM 1-MKII​ if used as a DAC?


----------



## Arthrumus

spork67 said:


> *STAX SRM 1-MKII*
> In keeping with the theory "the only stupid question is one you don't ask" - Do any of the STAX amp's have a built-in DAC, or are they designed to be fed an analogue signal from the source?
> I'm eyeing off an older SRM 1-MKII (with both pro and standard outputs), or for a few hundred more I could get a current model SRM-252S. If the latter has a built-in DAC (good quality) I could almost justify the extra $.
> 
> Can anyone confirm that my DAC/amp (Grace Design x Massdrop m9XX DAC/Amp ) will play nicely with the SRM 1-MKII​ if used as a DAC?


 
 No Stax amp past or present has an integrated DAC. Maybe in the future, as I believe I recall seeing something about a prototype dac amp combo being shown by Stax at a show recently, but it was a low end amp I think. 
  
 The SRM-1 MKII is exponentially better than the SRM-252s. The 252s is the bottom of the current line whereas the SRM-1 MKII was the absolute pinnacle in it's day. It is still widely regarded as one of the best sounding amps that Stax has ever produced. I know from experience, in a direct A/B comparison with the current TOTL Stax amp the SRM-727 (equipped with the spritzer mod to fix the incomplete feedback loop) the SRM-1 MkII holds it's own, only lacking that last few percent of control and refinement. The SRM-1 MkII is capable of authoritatively driving all of the Lambdas and supposedly even does a fair job of driving the SR-009. It doesn't have the oomph to drive the SR-007 though, but then again very few amps do so that's not a slight against it.
  
 As long as your Grace m9xx has line out then there shouldn't be any problems. Stax amps accept standard RCA input just like any other amp.


----------



## Spork67

Thanks for that.
 Better grab to MKII then.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Heard SR-009 out of the stax 727 (tidal, yggy) yesterday. While it was more resolving than HD800 with the WA5, I can't say that it was night and day better. It sounded a bit more refined, with a bit less bass (though with excellent extension), and all the frequencies well integrated. The soundstage placed me among the instruments rather than a bit back. I know the amp is nowhere near as wonderful as BHSE or Carbon, but such an amp would have to make the headphones fundamentally different in order to truly justify the expense for me, not just an incremental step above a well-driven HD800.


----------



## astrostar59

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Heard SR-009 out of the stax 727 (tidal, yggy) yesterday. While it was more resolving than HD800 with the WA5, I can't say that it was night and day better. It sounded a bit more refined, with a bit less bass (though with excellent extension), and all the frequencies well integrated. The soundstage placed me among the instruments rather than a bit back. I know the amp is nowhere near as wonderful as BHSE or Carbon, but such an amp would have to make the headphones fundamentally different in order to truly justify the expense for me, not just an incremental step above a well-driven HD800.


 
 Having had the previous Stax amp (717 which sounds better than the stock 727) and the 009s, IMO you are in for a treat if you can indeed hear the Carbon or BHSE. The jump is truly big, huge, immense. It is night and day.... The 009s scale incredibly well and are held back by that amp.


----------



## yates7592

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Heard SR-009 out of the stax 727 (tidal, yggy) yesterday. While it was more resolving than HD800 with the WA5, I can't say that it was night and day better. It sounded a bit more refined, with a bit less bass (though with excellent extension), and all the frequencies well integrated. The soundstage placed me among the instruments rather than a bit back. I know the amp is nowhere near as wonderful as BHSE or Carbon, but such an amp would have to make the headphones fundamentally different in order to truly justify the expense for me, not just an incremental step above a well-driven HD800.




Funny how we all hear differently. I had a 2 hour session recently using very familiar music with the SR009, SRM007t2 and a worse source than yours and to my ears the SR009 was head and shoulders above HD800. Deeper and weightier bass, full mids (not scooped), no piercing treble issue; and a more realistic 3D soundstage. Just a fixed HD800!


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## Spork67

I just bought this:
  

  
  
 A mate has a powdercoating business so I might get him to repaint the cover.
 The faceplate doesn't look too bad.
 Fingers crossed the guy selling the headphones is genuine - although I used Pay-pal so if they don't turn up I'll get a refund, but then I'm left with an amp and nothing to plug into it.


----------



## purk

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Heard SR-009 out of the stax 727 (tidal, yggy) yesterday. While it was more resolving than HD800 with the WA5, I can't say that it was night and day better. It sounded a bit more refined, with a bit less bass (though with excellent extension), and all the frequencies well integrated. The soundstage placed me among the instruments rather than a bit back. I know the amp is nowhere near as wonderful as BHSE or Carbon, but such an amp would have to make the headphones fundamentally different in order to truly justify the expense for me, not just an incremental step above a well-driven HD800.


 
 The stock 727 is such a poor sounding amp and I would advice getting the 323S way over it.   I would not judge the SR009 or SR007 out of that amp ever unless it has a feedback mod done to it.  I also owned the stock 727 in the past.


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## Arthrumus

spork67 said:


> I just bought this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I was looking at that the other day (I am in a perpetual state of watching ebay for Stax stuff.) Looks like you got a pretty good deal on it too assuming it has no problems other than the scratched paint. The front panel looks like its in good shape so a can of spray paint, or better yet powder coat, and you'll have a fine looking and sounding amp. Congrats!
  
 If the headphones do fall through there are still many other fine Staxen to choose from. I highly recommend the original Normal Bias Lambda, they sound better to my ears than any of the X07 Lambdas that I've heard. Not as dynamic or punchy as the new stuff but they have a flatter frequency response and a lovely midrange (best I've heard from an E-stat). They are a little rolled off at either end of the spectrum but IMHO they can still thump pretty hard when they need to. Best part is you can usually find them for under $300.


----------



## plektret

I've tried to fax Pricejapan morning, noon, afternoon, evening, night. No connection.


----------



## Rotijon

Just chill, they are good for it.

 Call them back in a week.


----------



## Arthrumus

plektret said:


> I've tried to fax Pricejapan morning, noon, afternoon, evening, night. No connection.


 Maybe you annoy them?


----------



## plektret

arthrumus said:


> Maybe you annoy them?



 

As I wrote earlier, they have taken my money but haven't replied to emails or shipped my order. No communication whatsoever for over 1 month. Isn't that annoying, having to worrying if you've been scammed?


----------



## Arthrumus

plektret said:


> arthrumus said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe you annoy them?
> ...


 
 That probably would be annoying, but I think PJ might actually be just a one man operation, so it's not like you have a customer service department who can answer every email right away. Their communication has never been very good, but they've always come through in the past, that's why so many recommend them. In early June they posted a notice on the front page that explains that due to a car accident they had not been able to get any work done for a little while, so they are probably still catching up from the backlog. When you consider that it can take a month or more to receive packages from PJ when things are running smoothly it doesn't seem that surprising that you haven't gotten your order yet.


----------



## Pokemonn

according to recent Japanese audiophile magazine(i lost memory which magazine it was. ill search it later,,,EDIT i found it article, it was Japanese Audiophile Magazine "Stereo" April 2016 Page.75, Stax President Mr.Nakata comment on it), Stax HQ is interested in/considering to launch global direct seles site from Japan.
 so lets wait and see.


----------



## Michgelsen

Sounds like a smart move, because I think they could make more profit and sell more units at the same time, although I think the distributors elsewhere will not be happy about it.
 Stax would have to concern themselves with a lot more and different work, i.e. direct sales and assistance to customers in English, and managing all the parcels and returns. If they do it, I hope they will hire some competent people for it. Also, while they're at it, I think a new, modern website would help. I like the current one for nostalgic reasons, but potential new customers may have more confidence in Stax if they build a new website.
  
 So far, I haven't seen any bad changes since Edifier purchased Stax, but not any good ones either...


----------



## Blackmore

I do believe that Stax dont sell that much through dealership, as the prices are sky high, at least up here they are. Besides, many folks buy directy from Japan anyway, cost you like 50% less, even include taxes. For example, Stax 009 cost here close to EUR 5000, so, what kind of sale market these ear speakers have up here? The answer is simple, none.


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## ToroFiestaSol

pokemonn said:


> according to recent Japanese audiophile magazine(i lost memory which magazine it was. ill search it later), Stax HQ is interested in/considering to launch global direct seles site from Japan.
> so lets wait and see.


 
  
 THIS ^^
  
 They need to do that, because nobody buys Stax in Europe (5000€ for SR-009).
 They've been fixing the prices with the L500 and L700 and SRM-353X, price is more or less the same than in Japan but the rest of the products are twice the price.


----------



## Rozeqloud

im saving up for a pair of Stax SR 009s
  
 i had lamdas in 80s-90s and still have the SRD-7/SB stax adapter , i was hoping to simply purchase the 009s and use that as  stop gap until i could afford and had decided on the amp 
  
 It seems the 009s are actively induced and the SRD-7/SB is passive ,so im led to believe there is no chance to have this work together 
  
 If there is a way  to use my SRD , which will mean i can go ahead soon and buy the 009s , id appreciate someone here letting me know 
  
 i am also led to believe that if there is a warranty issue with stax 009s , and i ve used a non stax amp , then i ve voided the warranty (apparently there can be an issue where seperate charges can come through , from non stax amps , and ruin the 009s , this voids warranty im told) 
 Is this true ?
  
 Same dealer also tells me the stax SRM-727 and SRM 007-T2 are unmatched in high quality for the 009s
 Its easy to believe since stax should know their own product 
  
 But people like Ty (inner fidelity ) has said in concern to 727 " it did poorly with 009s , it didnt have the poop , and it was very rolled off , and its a shame to roll off the details of 009" of the 007-T 2 he said " it sounded sweet , but was unable to drive the 009s to a very high level "
  
 im not basing this all on Ty ( tho i over the years have grown to respect his ear) ,but anywhere i go to read , the stax amps are nowhere to be seen , in a good / bad review
  
 The blue hawaii/liquid lightning/woo audio really dominate all conversation 
  
 It seems a shame to have to be limited to the stax amps for warranty concerns .
  
 i have the RSA Darkstar for my HD 800s 
  
 As great as it is , and it is  , id flog it ( as id need cash) if there was such a thing as dual electrostat/dynamic headphone amp (In the same league as Darkstar tho) .As i plan on keeping my HD 800s , unless the 009s convince me otherwise 
  
 The Thunderbolt A 10 looks a dream , but is dedicated electrostat , i cant afford to keep darkstar if im to buy that A 10
  
 Also , to fellow Canadians (or just someone who knows the details) , if i was to buy from that Japan.com ? site , i understand there are warranty concerns , and can i also ask once i pay them (add gst/ship fees) ,what other charges like duty will i face ?
  
 i ve been getting the run about trying to speak to a proper dept. at canada customs for 2 ,wasted,days now 
  
 One dept sends me to another , yet another ,and no one knows s***
  
 Apologies for so many , and even newb questions , tho i do look forward to replies
  
 Cheers


----------



## Blackmore

@Rozeqloud
  
 You can keep in the middle, for example not selling your HD800 set up by getting L700  with Stax amp like 006t both used, but from your location that were bought from official dealership, It may take some time, but you will be safe then. Of course, all depends on your own preferences, but you do have a choce this way.


----------



## Arthrumus

rozeqloud said:


> im saving up for a pair of Stax SR 009s
> 
> i had lamdas in 80s-90s and still have the SRD-7/SB stax adapter , i was hoping to simply purchase the 009s and use that as  stop gap until i could afford and had decided on the amp
> 
> *It seems the 009s are actively induced and the SRD-7/SB is passive* ,so im led to believe there is no chance to have this work together


 
  Huh?
 Quote:


> If there is a way  to use my SRD , which will mean i can go ahead soon and buy the 009s , id appreciate someone here letting me know


 
  SRD boxes work the same with the SR-009 as they do with any and every other Stax earspeaker. The technology is exactly the same. The only thing to look out for is whether you have a pro bias or normal bias SRD-7. The SR-009 is pro bias  and while it is compatible with normal bias amps and energizers it will not sound very good on them.
  
 Quote:


> i am also led to believe that if there is a warranty issue with stax 009s , and i ve used a non stax amp , then i ve voided the warranty (apparently there can be an issue where seperate charges can come through , from non stax amps , and ruin the 009s , this voids warranty im told)
> Is this true ?


 
  I think this is technically true, but I'm not sure how they would be able to prove that you used a non stax amp unless you volunteered that information. Also no amp that is built correctly will damage the headphones. If you are worried about this then be careful with Woo and RSA amps. Several products from these manufacturers have been found with incorrect ballast resistor values in the bias supplies for Stax earspeakers that could cause damage to the diaphragm coating. They might have fixed this but there's no way to know for sure.
 Quote:


> Same dealer also tells me the stax SRM-727 and SRM 007-T2 are unmatched in high quality for the 009s
> Its easy to believe since stax should know their own product


 
 lol.


> But people like Ty (inner fidelity ) has said in concern to 727 " it did poorly with 009s , it didnt have the poop , and it was very rolled off , and its a shame to roll off the details of 009" of the 007-T 2 he said " it sounded sweet , but was unable to drive the 009s to a very high level "
> 
> im not basing this all on Ty ( tho i over the years have grown to respect his ear) ,but anywhere i go to read , the stax amps are nowhere to be seen , in a good / bad review


 
 Both the 727 and 007Tii need internal modifications to sound good with anything. They are both nonlinear and underpowered. They are both nice designs, but Stax made some weird design choices that make them perform worse than they should. The 727 has an incomplete feedback loop that bloats the bass and screws up the treble, and the 007Tii just uses the wrong tubes, 6CG7s instead of 6S4As. As for why Stax does these things I have no answers, I'm inclined to believe that they know what they are doing from an engineering perspective, but that perhaps they have some strange ideology about how they voice their amps, and are willing to make significant engineering compromises to do so.


> The blue hawaii/liquid lightning/woo audio really dominate all conversation


 
 Yep.


> The Thunderbolt A 10 looks a dream , but is dedicated electrostat , i cant afford to keep darkstar if im to buy that A 10


 
 Stay far away from the A10. You can do much better for far less.The KGSSHV Carbon was specifically designed from the ground up for the SR-009. Mjolnir-Audio sells a very fine example of this amp for a couple thousand less than the A10. It's not as blingy, but that shouldn't matter if your priorities are in order.


----------



## Rozeqloud

blackmore said:


> @Rozeqloud
> 
> You can keep in the middle, for example not selling your HD800 set up by getting L700  with Stax amp like 006t both used, but from your location that were bought from official dealership, It may take some time, but you will be safe then. Of course, all depends on your own preferences, but you do have a choce this way.


 
 Thanks mate
  
 PS love the profile pic


----------



## Rozeqloud

arthrumus said:


> lol.
> Both the 727 and 007Tii need internal modifications to sound good with anything. They are both nonlinear and underpowered. They are both nice designs, but Stax made some weird design choices that make them perform worse than they should. The 727 has an incomplete feedback loop that bloats the bass and screws up the treble, and the 007Tii just uses the wrong tubes, 6CG7s instead of 6S4As. As for why Stax does these things I have no answers, I'm inclined to believe that they know what they are doing from an engineering perspective, but that perhaps they have some strange ideology about how they voice their amps, and are willing to make significant engineering compromises to do so.
> Yep.
> Stay far away from the A10. You can do much better for far less.The KGSSHV Carbon was specifically designed from the ground up for the SR-009. Mjolnir-Audio sells a very fine example of this amp for a couple thousand less than the A10. It's not as blingy, but that shouldn't matter if your priorities are in order.


 
 Cheers for that nice informed reply mate
  
 When i said
  
 "*It seems the 009s are actively induced and the SRD-7/SB is passive* ,so im led to believe there is no chance to have this work together "
  
 i was simply parroting what a dealer told me today . i cant begin to suss what it means , except it says NOPE that wont drive the 009s . Was i being misled or misinformed ?
  
  
 " The only thing to look out for is whether you have a pro bias or normal bias SRD-7. The SR-009 is pro bias  and while it is compatible with normal bias amps and energizers it will not sound very good on them."
  
How do i figure what mine is then , either normal or pro bias ?
  
id love to have the 009s to carry with me to test amps , and could still use them at home with my *SRD-7/SB *
  
*"*The KGSSHV Carbon "
  
i sensed you really dig that one . The other 2 to seriously consider are The blue hawaii/liquid lightning/woo audio ? "
  
Would you have some time to enlighten me on those amps , esp. in terms of preference for the 009s and why ?
  
i love that you said the carbon was designed specifically for the 009 , is that designed by the same Gilmore chap who designed Blue hawaii as well ?
  
Or am i crossing wires here ?
  
Cheers


----------



## Michgelsen

rozeqloud said:


> Cheers for that nice informed reply mate
> 
> When i said
> 
> ...


 
  
 Misinformed, yes. What the dealer probably meant was that the SRD-7/SB is a passive component, which always needs to be used with an active component (a speaker amp) to be able to drive Stax earspeakers. However, the SR-009 will also work with this type of transformer box, although the dealer is again somewhat right in saying that it is better to use a direct-drive electrostatic headphone amp, such as a Stax amp or one of the after-market amps, such as one of Kevin Gilmore's designs.
  


rozeqloud said:


> " The only thing to look out for is whether you have a pro bias or normal bias SRD-7. The SR-009 is pro bias  and while it is compatible with normal bias amps and energizers it will not sound very good on them."
> 
> How do i figure what mine is then , either normal or pro bias ?
> 
> id love to have the 009s to carry with me to test amps , and could still use them at home with my *SRD-7/SB *


 
  
 Look closely at the outputs where you plug in the earspeakers. If the socket has six holes, it's normal bias, and if it has five holes, it's pro bias (which you need). If it's pro bias it will also very likely say so in small print above the socket.


----------



## greggf

The 727 STAX amp is fine if you think it sounds fine, and the sound of any amp is subjective and depends greatly upon the volume levels you listen at.  For more insight about why the 727 (and 007tII) get ragged around here, check out this thread area from 2011:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/15450
  
 In other words, the folks who find the STAX amps wanting have "issues" about how an amp should sound.  Just as the STAX engineers have "issues" about the way their amps should sound.
  
 Either way, it's engineer types with "issues", and music lovers should take it all with a grain of salt and buy the cheapest amps that suit their tastes.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Best solution is getting in touch with someone who knows about amplifiers, like Kevin Gimore and ask him for a good China based builder. You can get a KGSS for less than 1k and is way better than any Stax amp.


----------



## astrostar59

greggf said:


> The 727 STAX amp is fine if you think it sounds fine, and the sound of any amp is subjective and depends greatly upon the volume levels you listen at.  For more insight about why the 727 (and 007tII) get ragged around here, check out this thread area from 2011:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/15450
> 
> In other words, the folks who find the STAX amps wanting have bugs up their arses about how an amp should sound.  Just as the STAX engineers have bugs up their arses about the way their amps should sound.
> 
> Either way, it's engineer types with bugs in bad places, and music lovers should take it all with a grain of salt and buy the cheapest amps that suit their tastes.


 
 Ehh??


----------



## astrostar59

I would do some more reading TBH, and don't jump in right away. All the information you need is on here if you look around. The other thing to do is try and find someone who has a non Stax amp to hear it for yourself, then you can cut to the chase, make you on mind up.


----------



## echineko

I jumped right in, knew I liked the 009, and decided to start with a cheaper Stax amp (SRM-007TII) to begin with. Still getting used to this setup, will slowly start planning for an upgrade amp for next year. There were a few guys on here who were very generous with their time, for sure. You know who you are, help and suggestions via PM were much appreciated.


----------



## astrostar59

rozeqloud said:


> im saving up for a pair of Stax SR 009s
> 
> i had lamdas in 80s-90s and still have the SRD-7/SB stax adapter , i was hoping to simply purchase the 009s and use that as  stop gap until i could afford and had decided on the amp


 
 I was in the same situation 3 years back. What I did was buy the 007s and a used 717 Stax amp. The 717 is better sounding than the stock 727 or 007T or 323. Or go for the 009s and have that sorted. Then when you get chance to hear other non Stax amps decide whether you want to take that next step. IMO the current 007A (not the earlier 007 MK2 and the 009 are way ahead of the other Lambda based units, so going for the full size over ear 007A and 009 gets you one the right path sonically.
  
 I would not spend the full list on a new Stax amp.


----------



## JustinBieber

@Rozeqloud @astrostar59 
  
 I'm using an SRM-323 with the 009 and it works great. Obviously it's not the best (biggest problem is a lack of bass), but I mean it's only $350-400 used. And the 727 is just as good as the 717 if you can do the resistor mod.
  
 I think a KGSS is going to be my next amp (If anyone has impressions of the KGSS/KGST/HV vs 323 I would love to read them). Next is a KGSSHV or KGST and then I'll be done for a while.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Why not just go to Carbon? Skip HV.


----------



## JustinBieber

Because college tuition 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Carbon is a bit too expensive for me right now... so I'm trying to get used amps off the classifieds.


----------



## Rozeqloud

justinbieber said:


> @Rozeqloud @astrostar59
> 
> I'm using an SRM-323 with the 009 and it works great. Obviously it's not the best (biggest problem is a lack of bass), but I mean it's only $350-400 used. And the 727 is just as good as the 717 if you can do the resistor mod.
> 
> I think a KGSS is going to be my next amp (If anyone has impressions of the KGSS/KGST/HV vs 323 I would love to read them). Next is a KGSSHV or KGST and then I'll be done for a while.


 
 Thanks
  
 is that lack of bass from amp do you suppose or the 009s ?


----------



## JustinBieber

It's from the amp. I have heard the KGSSHV and it definitely increases the bass slam of the 009 as well as the soundstage size when compared to the 323.


----------



## Rozeqloud

justinbieber said:


> It's from the amp. I have heard the KGSSHV and it definitely increases the bass slam of the 009 as well as the soundstage size when compared to the 323.


 
 Thanks again


----------



## jibzilla

kevin gilmore said:


> Although this is the stax thread...
> 
> The singlepower sds and sds xlr are both white cathode follower output stage circuits. A shared dual triode is the input gain
> For both channels (or balanced phases of one channel) and the output of this stage is DC coupled to the top cathode follower
> ...


 
  
 Although this is the stax thread...
  
 Do you mind me asking why your a "proud" SP owner? Maybe I missed it but I have never seen you say anything good about SP and plenty of bad things including this post. Is it sarcasm?
  
 You would get allot more street cred., at least from me, if your were a proud Apex owner.


----------



## Jones Bob

jibzilla said:


> Although this is the stax thread...
> 
> Do you mind me asking why your a "proud" SP owner? Maybe I missed it but I have never seen you say anything good about SP and plenty of bad things including this post. Is it sarcasm?
> 
> You would get allot more street cred., at least from me, if your were a proud Apex owner.




Bwhahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

Kevin Gilmore has designed and built more TOTL amps than you have taken bowel movements in your short life!


----------



## potkettleblack

Scoff scoff scoff, I bet he uses Stax brand amps as well, huh fellas, scoff scoff scoff 

*inserts Diana Krall cd*


----------



## Rozeqloud

astrostar59 said:


> I was in the same situation 3 years back. What I did was buy the 007s and a used 717 Stax amp. The 717 is better sounding than the stock 727 or 007T or 323. Or go for the 009s and have that sorted. Then when you get chance to hear other non Stax amps decide whether you want to take that next step. IMO the current 007A (not the earlier 007 MK2 and the 009 are way ahead of the other Lambda based units, so going for the full size over ear 007A and 009 gets you one the right path sonically.
> 
> I would not spend the full list on a new Stax amp.


 
 Thank you


----------



## jibzilla

jones bob said:


> Bwhahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
> 
> Kevin Gilmore has designed and built more TOTL amps than you have taken bowel movements in your short life!


 
  
 Yeah so what. What is your point? I'm just curious why he is a proud owner when he goes out of his way to say bad things about them. Pretty legit question and he does not have to answer if he does not want to. Glad I could make you laugh chukles.


----------



## jgazal

jibzilla said:


> question




http://www.head-fi.org/t/431581/the-single-power-es-1-2-repair-and-restoration-thread/0_50

http://www.head-fi.org/t/437708/warning-about-the-singlepower-extreme-owners-please-read/0_50


----------



## Jones Bob

jibzilla said:


> Yeah so what. What is your point? I'm just curious why he is a proud owner when he goes out of his way to say bad things about them. Pretty legit question and he does not have to answer if he does not want to. Glad I could make you laugh chukles.




My point was to ridicule your questioning of Kevin's "street cred". That's as ******* ignorant as some pathetic Millennial demanding Buzz Aldrin defend that he actually did walk on the moon 47 years ago. :rolleyes:


----------



## jibzilla

jones bob said:


> My point was to ridicule your questioning of Kevin's "street cred". That's as ******* ignorant as some pathetic Millennial demanding Buzz Aldrin defend that he actually did walk on the moon 47 years ago.


 
  
 I wasn't really questioning Kevin's street cred. My question was why give SP props.


----------



## Jones Bob

jibzilla said:


> I wasn't really questioning Kevin's street cred. My question was why give SP props.




Actually you were. Carry on.


----------



## Spork67

I have an old amp on the way.
 The outside will need fresh paint.
 Might as well clean the dust and debris out of the inside while I have the cover off.
 How long do the cap's hold power for in the old Stax amps?
 Hours? Days? Until it's discharged???


----------



## Jones Bob

spork67 said:


> I have an old amp on the way.
> The outside will need fresh paint.
> Might as well clean the dust and debris out of the inside while I have the cover off.
> How long do the cap's hold power for in the old Stax amps?
> Hours? Days? Until it's discharged???




I don't know if Stax put bleed down resistors in their circuits, but suggest you use a DVM to first test the PS caps to be sure before you dig into the amp.


----------



## jibzilla

jones bob said:


> Actually you were. Carry on.


 
  
 Actually I wasn't. Look in my sig. I own a kgsshv. Carry on.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

torofiestasol said:


> THIS ^^
> 
> They need to do that, because nobody buys Stax in Europe (5000€ for SR-009).
> They've been fixing the prices with the L500 and L700 and SRM-353X, price is more or less the same than in Japan but the rest of the products are twice the price.


 

 For that price, take a trip to the US, get them for ~$3300 on amazon/ebay, and enjoy NY, Chicago, SF, Portland...


----------



## soren_brix

spork67 said:


> I have an old amp on the way.
> The outside will need fresh paint.
> Might as well clean the dust and debris out of the inside while I have the cover off.
> How long do the cap's hold power for in the old Stax amps?
> Hours? Days? Until it's discharged???


 
  
  


jones bob said:


> I don't know if Stax put bleed down resistors in their circuits, but suggest you use a DVM to first test the PS caps to be sure before you dig into the amp.


 
 AND the BIAS pin ...


----------



## LaCuffia

Need some help from the Stax experts.  Is there any issue with hooking up an SDR 7 low bias adapter to a modern receiver?  I have a Sony DN850 7.2 channel receiver.    Thanks


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

bosiemoncrieff said:


> For that price, take a trip to the US, get them for ~$3300 on amazon/ebay, and enjoy NY, Chicago, SF, Portland...


 
  
 Yeah, I understand what's your point and is completely valid, but what I tried to say is that is always difficult to buy Stax at a "fair price", they need a more conventional sales method and pricing, like Sennheiser for example, HD800S costs more or less the same in every part of the world.
 My english is not perfect and I use posting in forums or watching movies to improve it, so I understand that sometimes is difficult to understand what I write.


----------



## Rozeqloud

torofiestasol said:


> Yeah, I understand what's your point and is completely valid, but what I tried to say is that is always difficult to buy Stax at a "fair price", they need a more conventional sales method and pricing, like Sennheiser for example, HD800S costs more or less the same in every part of the world.
> My english is not perfect and I use posting in forums or watching movies to improve it, so I understand that sometimes is difficult to understand what I write.


 
 Cheers to you for a great effort
  
 i speak only English , and your Englisk reads as well as mine mate


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

rozeqloud said:


> Cheers to you for a great effort
> 
> i speak only English , and your Englisk reads as well as mine mate


 
  
 Thank you very much


----------



## Rozeqloud

I meant English not Englisk LOL
  
 See what i mean


----------



## Pokemonn

I need your helps. I am considering to buy spritzer's amps.
 Which is the best spritzer's amp for the SR-007mark1 especially  for classical and jazz musics? I don't listen to pop and rock so much.
 I tend to like warmer sounding amps.
 please let me know your opinions.
  
 Thank you very much for your advices. Thanks.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

pokemonn said:


> I need your helps. I am considering to buy spritzer's amps.
> Which is the best spritzer's amp for the SR-007mark1 especially  for classical and jazz musics? I don't listen to pop and rock so much.
> I tend to like warmer sounding amps.
> please let me know your opinions.
> ...


 
  
 KGSSHV Carbon


----------



## Rossliew

pokemonn said:


> I need your helps. I am considering to buy spritzer's amps.
> Which is the best spritzer's amp for the SR-007mark1 especially  for classical and jazz musics? I don't listen to pop and rock so much.
> I tend to like warmer sounding amps.
> please let me know your opinions.
> ...


 

 The Octave - may be too warm with the 007Mk 1...send an email to Birgir and get his advice on a suitable pairing,


----------



## Rhamnetin

torofiestasol said:


> KGSSHV Carbon


 
  
 This.  Honestly this is probably the best amp sold on mjolnir-audio for just about any Stax and any person.


----------



## jibzilla

I think the Carbon is more meant for the 009. Kgsshv should be plenty and I love my kgsshv/007mk1 combo.


----------



## mulveling

Nonsense; my 007 Mk I is notably better out of KGSShv Carbon than any KGSShv variant. The Carbon is not warm; it's neutral. A plain KGSShv is still represents great value for the money, but the Carbon is better for both the 009 and 007 Mk I. 
  
 Tube amps are going to have a tough time properly driving the 007 until you get to a BHSE or DIY T2. The L700 is a different kettle of fish and it works brilliantly out of the smaller tube amps (of which I have a KGST and DIY balanced hev-90, the latter being better).


----------



## jibzilla

mulveling said:


> Nonsense; my 007 Mk I is notably better out of KGSShv Carbon than any KGSShv variant. The Carbon is not warm; it's neutral. A plain KGSShv is still represents great value for the money, but the Carbon is better for both the 009 and 007 Mk I.
> 
> Tube amps are going to have a tough time properly driving the 007 until you get to a BHSE or DIY T2. The L700 is a different kettle of fish and it works brilliantly out of the smaller tube amps (of which I have a KGST and DIY balanced hev-90, the latter being better).


 
  
 I do not think it is nonsense. Which is more notably better the 007mk1 or 009? A mjolnir kgsshv mini or full size is $3k+ and quite the build. To each his own.


----------



## Rhamnetin

jibzilla said:


> I do not think it is nonsense. Which is more notably better the 007mk1 or 009? A mjolnir kgsshv mini or full size is $3k+ and quite the build. To each his own.


 
  
 Well, the SR-007 is harder to drive than the SR-009.


----------



## Jones Bob

mulveling said:


> Nonsense; my 007 Mk I is notably better out of KGSShv Carbon than any KGSShv variant. The Carbon is not warm; it's neutral. A plain KGSShv is still represents great value for the money, but the Carbon is better for both the 009 and 007 Mk I.
> 
> Tube amps are going to have a tough time properly driving the 007 until you get to a BHSE or DIY T2. The L700 is a different kettle of fish and it works brilliantly out of the smaller tube amps (of which I have a KGST and DIY balanced hev-90, the latter being better).




Hey Mulveling, does your Carbon have Kevin's GR-LV replacing the stock PS boards 7815/7915 voltage regs? I tested the dual GR-LV that I built up for my Carbon in my my KGST. Geez, that really cleaned up a lot of SQ issues that I did not even know existed. So much so, my Carbon build has put been on the back burner. Maybe it's time to git 'er done.


----------



## purk

jibzilla said:


> I think the Carbon is more meant for the 009. Kgsshv should be plenty and I love my kgsshv/007mk1 combo.


 
 Actually the KGSSHV Carbon is a superior sounding amp to any KGSSHV variants out there for both the SR007 & SR009.


----------



## Rozeqloud

michgelsen said:


> Misinformed, yes. What the dealer probably meant was that the SRD-7/SB is a passive component, which always needs to be used with an active component (a speaker amp) to be able to drive Stax earspeakers. However, the SR-009 will also work with this type of transformer box, although the dealer is again somewhat right in saying that it is better to use a direct-drive electrostatic headphone amp, such as a Stax amp or one of the after-market amps, such as one of Kevin Gilmore's designs.
> 
> 
> Look closely at the outputs where you plug in the earspeakers. If the socket has six holes, it's normal bias, and if it has five holes, it's pro bias (which you need). If it's pro bias it will also very likely say so in small print above the socket.


 
   Darn , mine has 6 holes .I
 Will it still work , or is there any danger to damage 009s?


----------



## Michgelsen

Yes, those are normal bias outputs. Using your SR-009 with it will not damage the earspeakers, and it will work. However, the sound quality will not be optimal and volume will be slightly lower than with pro bias.


----------



## Rozeqloud

michgelsen said:


> Yes, those are normal bias outputs. Using your SR-009 with it will not damage the earspeakers, and it will work. However, the sound quality will not be optimal and volume will be slightly lower than with pro bias.


 
 Thank you
  
 Now if i can find a dealer within 60 minutes of Kitchener Ontario i can tote this along with me to test
  
 It may be a fill in until i decide on an amp
  
 Cheers


----------



## Golfnutz

rozeqloud said:


> Thank you
> 
> Now if i can find a dealer within 60 minutes of Kitchener Ontario i can tote this along with me to test
> 
> ...


 

 You're probably 10 minutes or less to a Stax dealer.
  
 Talk to Mark at Soundstage Fine Audio on Regina Street in Waterloo.
  
 He has a room dedicated to Headphones, including some Stax gear.


----------



## Rozeqloud

golfnutz said:


> You're probably 10 minutes or less to a Stax dealer.
> 
> Talk to Mark at Soundstage Fine Audio on Regina Street in Waterloo.
> 
> He has a room dedicated to Headphones, including some Stax gear.


 
 Thanks


----------



## JimL11

mulveling said:


> Tube amps are going to have a tough time properly driving the 007 until you get to a BHSE or DIY T2. The L700 is a different kettle of fish and it works brilliantly out of the smaller tube amps (of which I have a KGST and DIY balanced hev-90, the latter being better).


 

 Oh, I dunno.  I think my lowly SRX Plus DIY tube amp does a pretty good job of driving the 007 at non-ear-bleeding volumes, although I have to admit I haven't compared it with a BHSE, T2 or carbon level amp.  However, a couple people who have built it seem to feel it is on a similar level with Kevin Gilmore amps they have built including KGST, KGSSHV, Megatron and Carbon.


----------



## jibzilla

purk said:


> Actually the KGSSHV Carbon is a superior sounding amp to any KGSSHV variants out there for both the SR007 & SR009.


 
  
 I'm sure it is a superior energizer. It's just that from what I read it was designed with 009 in mind. Please correct me if I'm wrong. With that in mind I think it's reasonable that 007mk1/kgsshv is very end game. At least for me it is very end game, to the point where I do not regret passing on the Carbon. I was originally going to get a Carbon but fell short financially.


----------



## JimL11

jibzilla said:


> I'm sure it is a superior energizer. It's just that from what I read it was designed with 009 in mind. Please correct me if I'm wrong. With that in mind I think it's reasonable that 007mk1/kgsshv is very end game. At least for me it is very end game, to the point where I do not regret passing on the Carbon. I was originally going to get a Carbon but fell short financially.


 

 Actually, I think you misunderstand Dr. Gilmore's design process.  If you think about it, as a third party designer, it does not make sense to design ANY amp for ANY particular headphone, as the designer has no idea what headphone the end user will choose, and designing for a particular headphone significantly cuts down your "market."  
  
 His goal as I understand it, is to design as linear and neutral an amp as possible, and one that can drive any electrostatic headphone.  I believe that has been his goal since his original all-triode amp, which is the basis of the Woo GES, and it has continued through the KGSS, Blue Hawaii, KGSSHV and KGSS Carbon.  He does not design with a particular headphone in mind.  At the time the KGSS was designed the top headphone was the Stax SR007, so it was designed to drive it as well as possible, but NOT in the sense that it was designed to compensate for any perceived faults or weaknesses in that phone.  The same goes for his other designs.  The Carbon is designed to duplicate in solid state terms the output topology of the Blue Hawaii and T2 which use a grounded grid output stage, as that is the most linear way of implementing an output stage, with the hope that it might be more compatible with the 009, but again, it was not designed to address any particular subjective weaknesses in that phone.  As a result, it should drive any electrostatic headphone to its best, including the SR007, SR009, HE90, Koss 950, etc.  Now, whether you like that sound or prefer that sound to those phones being driven by other amplifiers is a subjective decision, as none of these is perfect (just as no amp is perfect), and the best subjective combination may or may not result from using the "best" amp and "best" headphone.  For example, a number of users prefer the Aristaeus driving Sennheiser HE90s even if the Blue Hawaii is objectively a "better" amp.


----------



## mulveling

jones bob said:


> Hey Mulveling, does your Carbon have Kevin's GR-LV replacing the stock PS boards 7815/7915 voltage regs? I tested the dual GR-LV that I built up for my Carbon in my my KGST. Geez, that really cleaned up a lot of SQ issues that I did not even know existed. So much so, my Carbon build has put been on the back burner. Maybe it's time to git 'er done.


 
 I actually don't know. I'd have to contact my builder to be sure, but if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that it _doesn't_ have the GR-LV (since it was an early build). I know my KGST doesn't have that, and it's a bit shy of KGSShv-level performance.
  


jibzilla said:


> I'm sure it is a superior energizer. It's just that from what I read it was designed with 009 in mind. Please correct me if I'm wrong. With that in mind I think it's reasonable that 007mk1/kgsshv is very end game. At least for me it is very end game, to the point where I do not regret passing on the Carbon. I was originally going to get a Carbon but fell short financially.


 
 Yes, what you read was speculation before the amp was finalized. Since built units have been out, *nobody* who's heard one has been saying that the Carbon is specifically matched to the 009. *Nobody*. It takes both the 007 Mk I and 009 to the next level until you take it even further (e.g. maybe BHSE and DIY T2). The 007 certainly scales beyond the capabilities of a KGSShv (though yes, that pairing sounds very good), and any reasonable listening session with a Carbon, BHSE, or DIY T2 will make that quite clear. Your setup doesn't qualify for summit-fi "end game", and neither does mine for that matter. I think hearing a 007 Mk I w/ BHSE would be an eye opener for you.
  


jiml11 said:


> Oh, I dunno.  I think my lowly SRX Plus DIY tube amp does a pretty good job of driving the 007 at non-ear-bleeding volumes, although I have to admit I haven't compared it with a BHSE, T2 or carbon level amp.  However, a couple people who have built it seem to feel it is on a similar level with Kevin Gilmore amps they have built including KGST, KGSSHV, Megatron and Carbon.


 
 I'm sure your SRX plus is an absolutely killer value, despite not yet having heard one. But to lump a KGST in with Carbon as being at a similar level might be a stretch for those who have heard both! Even a 007 w/ KGST sounds really good, coming from traditional dynamic headphone -- but for me the differences are significant as you scale further up the electrostatic food chain.


----------



## 3X0

There is such a wild variance of opinions (even those from experienced ears) that I would advocate listening for yourself to determine suitability.

Oftentimes the airfare to an appropriate meet might be less than what you stand to lose reselling a piece of equipment that does not meet expectations.

While a meet environment is rarely conducive to critical listening it is usually sufficient to determine whether you like something or not, perhaps even relative to another product when you apply sufficient controls. Unfortunately the Carbon still seems to be a somewhat rare amp at meets these days.

JimL11 I'm a little curious about the SRX Plus as it seems to be the de facto "low-cost" DIY option of today and it certainly seems to be getting much more love than the Egmont or eXStatA ever did. Despite this subtle popularity I don't even know what a completed build looks like...


----------



## JimL11

mulveling said:


> I'm sure your SRX plus is an absolutely killer value, despite not yet having heard one. But to lump a KGST in with Carbon as being at a similar level might be a stretch for those who have heard both! Even a 007 w/ KGST sounds really good, coming from traditional dynamic headphone -- but for me the differences are significant as you scale further up the electrostatic food chain.


 
 Yes, I know the general consensus is that the Carbon is the best solid state Gilmore design to date, and I'm not disagreeing with that at all.  I would note that most KGSTs in circulation have the earlier constant current source loads and use the simpler KGBH PS.  I suspect that the KGST with cascade constant current output loads and upgraded PS (KGSSHV high voltage and GRLV low voltage) would be significantly closer to a Carbon (which also uses the cascode current source loads, and most, if not all of which have the upgraded PS as well).  As you yourself have noted, the better power supplies in the full size KGSSHVs vs the mini KGSSHVs also improved the sound in terms of detail and dynamics - I would expect the same of a KGST, as Jones Bob says in his post.  Given the variation in DIY builds the only way to know how much the amp circuit contributes would be to build different amps with the best possible power supplies.  The KGST, as a "budget" amp, tends to be built with a budget PS whereas the KGSS Carbon tends to be built with a best PS as well.  
  
 As far as I know, nobody has ranked the SRX Plus vs any of Kevin GIlmore's amps directly, but the couple of people who have built a few of his amps as listed in my previous post, along with the SRX Plus, seem to like it about as well, which is really all I was claiming.  Since they didn't rank their builds, all I can do is lump them in the same general class, even though some are recognizably better than others. 
  
 I will say that a couple friends and I recently compared my SRX Plus with a KGST built by one of them - the latest version with cascode constant current loads, choke input raw power supply, KGSSHV PS and upgraded LV PS which is probably equivalent to the GRLV PS.  This PS gives it the best chance to show what the circuit can really do - I would guess it sounds better than most KGSTs out there by virtue of the upgraded PS.  Using both a SR007 Mk I and the latest SR007 Mk II with spritzer's port mod, we found them to be very similar, my amp was very subtly more "liquid", while the KGST was lower noise and maybe bigger soundstage due to the more sophisticated, quieter PS.  There is someone one state over who is building a DIY T2 so I'm hoping after it is done, that we can get together to compare a [the] state of the art amp to my lowly SRX Plus.  Of course, at 10% the parts cost, I expect to lose. The question is, by how much?


----------



## Arthrumus

jiml11 said:


> Actually, I think you misunderstand Dr. Gilmore's design process.  If you think about it, as a third party designer, it does not make sense to design ANY amp for ANY particular headphone, as the designer has no idea what headphone the end user will choose, and designing for a particular headphone significantly cuts down your "market."


 
   
 According to spritzer the Carbon design was started in an attempt to "tame the rough top end of the SR-009" but naturally grew to be what he and Kevin consider to be the best solid state amplifier they have designed and on equal ground with the Blue Hawaii and T2. It seems that it's exceptional performance in general makes it the best SS amp for any Stax headphones in spite of the fact that to some degree it was tailored to the SR-009. 
  
 I haven't happened to read Kevin's side of the story though.
  
 Quote:


jiml11 said:


> For example, a number of users prefer the Aristaeus driving Sennheiser HE90s even if the Blue Hawaii is objectively a "better" amp.


 
 And this is also a case of an amp being tailor made to compensate for the shortcomings of a particular headphone.


----------



## JimL11

3x0 said:


> There is such a wild variance of opinions (even those from experienced ears) that I would advocate listening for yourself to determine suitability.
> 
> Oftentimes the airfare to an appropriate meet might be less than what you stand to lose reselling a piece of equipment that does not meet expectations.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi,
 If you look on the other web site's DIY section under SRX revisited you can see some pictures of my build, as well as an all-the-gory-details description of the circuit design and modifications.  It's named the SRX Plus in honor of the original Stax SRX circuit which was designed as a DIY circuit in the late 60's-early 70's, and the Plus indicates the modifications to bring it up to modern standards.  It can drive any of the Stax headphones including the SR007 (which I own), and which the Egmont and eXstatA were not designed to drive.  The Egmont cannot do an adequate job due to its resistor output loads which suck up too much of the standing current, and the eXstatA simply lacks the standing current - around 6 mA per channel vs 14 mA for the SRX Plus.
  
 I also published the design in the Nov and Dec 2015 issues of AudioXpress magazine.


----------



## 3X0

Ah, I missed that one -- mostly saw just the circuit diagrams up until now.
  
 Looks pretty cute! I'm tempted.


----------



## Spork67

Well, I'm a little disappointed, but not really surprised.
 I bought a pair of SR-507's off ebay at a price that seemed too good to be true.
 It turns out that the price was too good to be true.
 The HP's haven't arrived and I haven't been sent a tracking number or any other confirmation that they have been sent.
 I will now go through the ebay  / pay-pal refund process.
 Having shelled out for a STAX amp I guess I'm committed to getting some headphones to use with it.
 The amp has both standard and pro bias output, so I'm not really limited to what HP's I get, other than my budget.
 My budget isn't huge. I was (unrealistically perhaps) hoping to join the ranks of STAX owners for < $1000 AUD) (HP's AND amp).
 On the positive side (You always have to look for the positive, right?) I may have a little time to: save more $, and to research.
 I would really like to keep the headphone $ to < $1000 (AUD). < $600 would be ideal... 
 I'm happy to buy used / second hand if they have been well looked after.
  
 So - to my question: Which STAX would you lfolks recommend for me? I listen to a wide range of genres, but mostly rock, indie and metal.
 I'd also like the option of using them for a bit of casual gaming, but music would be the primary purpose - I can keep using my ATH-AD900x for gaming if I need to.


----------



## Michgelsen

Well, for your budget it would have to be a Lambda.
  
 I would search for a (used) 202 or 207. Cheap, but very good. Best bang for the buck. Other contenders would be a Lambda Nova Signature or 404 Limited Edition, which I haven't heard but are supposed to be good.
 Although it has its followers, I personally do not like the Lambda Signature, because of its infamous treble 'etch'.
  
 You could of course also just buy a new L500 or L300, depending on budget, perhaps via PriceJapan.


----------



## joseph69

How are the people making out who ordered/e-mailed from PJ within the past month or so?  
 Has PJ shipped/responded since?


----------



## Arthrumus

spork67 said:


> Well, I'm a little disappointed, but not really surprised.
> I bought a pair of SR-507's off ebay at a price that seemed too good to be true.
> It turns out that the price was too good to be true.
> The HP's haven't arrived and I haven't been sent a tracking number or any other confirmation that they have been sent.
> ...


 
 The Normal Bias Lambda. It's my favorite Lambda out of the ones I've owned. You can usually find them for under $300 USD, and at that price they are unbeatable.


----------



## Michgelsen

The normal bias Lambda may not work with the amp he's already got. Which amp do you have, Spork67?


----------



## Arthrumus

michgelsen said:


> The normal bias Lambda may not work with the amp he's already got. Which amp do you have, Spork67?


 He's got an SRM-1 MK2 pro which will definitely work with a lambda NB.


----------



## bmichels

anakchan said:


> I think it's  lot more than that. Each time I search for the EL34 metal NOS, it's like $600 a pop (coming up to $2400 for 4) - matched though, naturally.


 
  
(


----------



## plektret

joseph69 said:


> How are the people making out who ordered/e-mailed from PJ within the past month or so?
> 
> 
> Has PJ shipped/responded since?



 

I ordered L700/353X on June 16. No email response. No products received. Their fax seems to be disconnected. I payed by bank wire, so I'm getting really worried.
When I emailed them in February regarding Stax spare parts they responded within 24 hours.
The prices on their website haven't been updated for a while, although the latest update on the Korean language section was on June 25.
Has PJ been known to ship orders without sending shipping confirmation email?


----------



## potkettleblack

@Spork

The L500 is fantastic for the price. Very close to the L700 minus the glare and occasional harshness.


----------



## yates7592

joseph69 said:


> How are the people making out who ordered/e-mailed from PJ within the past month or so?
> Has PJ shipped/responded since?




I made an enquiry on availability and pricing by email twice in the last 2 weeks but no reply.


----------



## joseph69

plektret said:
			
		

> yates7592 said:
> 
> 
> > I made an enquiry on availability and pricing by email twice in the last 2 weeks but no reply.
> ...


 
 Sorry to hear this, I thought for sure you both would have heard something by now. 
 Not in my experience, they've always e-mailed a shipping confirmation.


----------



## astrostar59

yates7592 said:


> I made an enquiry on availability and pricing by email twice in the last 2 weeks but no reply.


 
+81-3-3831-3092


----------



## jibzilla

mulveling said:


> Yes, what you read was speculation before the amp was finalized. Since built units have been out, *nobody* who's heard one has been saying that the Carbon is specifically matched to the 009. *Nobody*. It takes both the 007 Mk I and 009 to the next level until you take it even further (e.g. maybe BHSE and DIY T2). The 007 certainly scales beyond the capabilities of a KGSShv (though yes, that pairing sounds very good), and any reasonable listening session with a Carbon, BHSE, or DIY T2 will make that quite clear. Your setup doesn't qualify for summit-fi "end game", and neither does mine for that matter. I think hearing a 007 Mk I w/ BHSE would be an eye opener for you.


 
  
 I'm pretty sure that I read a fellow Pavane owner state that the Carbon was night and day better with the 009 over the kgsshv. I think nobody is a stretch.
  
 I get where you are coming from but I respectfully disagree. To me once you hit $5k for your amp and headphone, which is around what I paid for my kgsshv/007mk1, it becomes very much in the ears of the beholder as far as a summit fi end game is concerned. I demoed the Abyss on a very expensive amp for example and owned a he-1k and tried it out on amps more expensive than my kgsshv. I still thought that the hd800 and 007mk1 were better and there is not much arguing that the abyss and he1k setups I listened to qualified financially speaking for summit fi "end game".  I would also take the 007mk1 over the 009 as far as comfort goes.
  
 Just me but $5k for a headphone and amp is allot of monies. Maybe chump change for speaker guys but headphones yeah I'd say it's summit-fi endgame territory or if not at least very close.


----------



## Spork67

Thanks for the suggestions.
 Looks like several new STAX within (the higher end of) my budget, if I buy from overseas.
 PJ probably best prices - but nervous about the reliability from a few posts in this thread.
 Is there anywhere else to buy from without getting slugged with what I assume is the distributors markup in Australia?
 Of course I'm keeping an eye on  evilbay for a decent older set - but they don't seem to come up very often.


----------



## HemiSam

FromJapan has proven fine in my experience.
  
 I can't recommend the L300.  It's way too bright/forward up top for me and lacking mid-low to lows, even out of a serious amp.  I do recommend the Lambda 404 Signature.  Sounded great out of both an 006T and my KGSSHV Carbon.
  
 HS


----------



## astrostar59

plektret said:


> joseph69 said:
> 
> 
> > How are the people making out who ordered/e-mailed from PJ within the past month or so?
> ...


 

 Whois data:
Registrant Contact Name: Jinsung Kwon 

Organization:

Mailing Address: 4-6-11, Yushima, Bunkyo-ku, Tokyo, Japan, 113003 KR 

Phone: +82.238163237


----------



## sensui123

What is so special about Price Japan anyway....it is just a proxy service for specific goods.  All he does is take best pricing he finds on rakuten/amazon.co.jp etc (using kakaku.com).  I've been using my personal friend for years as a proxy in Japan (I visit regularly but when I'm away) and he has a service also that's probably 100x better in communication (from these kind of feedbacks) and could possibly work out lower rates:
  
 http://proxy.kolektakon.com/
  
 He's been doing various goods for over 5 years now with nothing but glowing feedback.  I suggest you guys look into this if you guys want not only STAX gear but anything from Japan that won't ship internationally.  You want someone experienced in packaging and proxying with good communication to handle your goods...PJ does not sound like it.....oh right, he also did proxy my SR-009 as a FYI.  =)  His name is Hiromi and he's in Machida.  Good luck gents.


----------



## arnaud

Hiromi is a girl's name though @sensui123.

About the registered address for PJ (website?), it's pretty weird: korean number and country code in the phone number but the rest of the address is actually for japan.


----------



## sensui123

arnaud said:


> Hiromi is a girl's name though @sensui123.
> 
> About the registered address for PJ (website?), it's pretty weird: korean number and country code in the phone number but the rest of the address is actually for japan.


 
  
 Arnaud, you are correct.  It can be a girl's name.  It actually is a unisex name in Japan though much like Toshi.  He's a guy I've known since we hung out together in West LA when my wife and I were just dating 13 years back.  I do have to make a correction though, he used to live in Machida but is now in Nakameguro....still Tokyo anyway and is a very convenient guy to know for proxy service in Japan as we know everything popular lands in Tokyo one way or another in the country.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

jibzilla said:


> I'm pretty sure that I read a fellow Pavane owner state that the Carbon was night and day better with the 009 over the kgsshv. I think nobody is a stretch.
> 
> I get where you are coming from but I respectfully disagree. To me once you hit $5k for your amp and headphone, which is around what I paid for my kgsshv/007mk1, it becomes very much in the ears of the beholder as far as a summit fi end game is concerned. I demoed the Abyss on a very expensive amp for example and owned a he-1k and tried it out on amps more expensive than my kgsshv. I still thought that the hd800 and 007mk1 were better and there is not much arguing that the abyss and he1k setups I listened to qualified financially speaking for summit fi "end game".  I would also take the 007mk1 over the 009 as far as comfort goes.
> 
> Just me but $5k for a headphone and amp is allot of monies. Maybe chump change for speaker guys but headphones yeah I'd say it's summit-fi endgame territory or if not at least very close.


 
  
 From a Spritzer's post on "the other forum":
  
 Question:
 *What do you think about the 009 specifically with the Carbon, I've read a lot of your opinions on the 009 over the years but I somehow failed to catch any updated thoughts from you since the Carbon came into existence. Has the Carbon made them worthy, or does the plugged port Omega 2 mk2.98735 still conquer all?*
  
 Spritzer's answer:
*That is a good question as most of the fiddling I did to the Carbon circuit after the common release was to make it work better with the 009.  Now this isn't the idiotic audiophile notion of tuning (i.e. put in some different parts) but rather seeing what actually enhances the performance of the transducer.  The end result is the best I've heard the 009's but they will never be my go to set.  They are just too ****ed to be ever taken seriously but the amp does help a lot. *
*Another point of reference are the almost 10 people who own a Carbon and a BHSE.  All of them prefer the Carbon with the 009 and that makes perfect sense from a technical point of view.  One of them even recently got a brand new BHSE and asked me what he should do with it...the Carbon was much better.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Most of this is due to the superior high frequency driving potential.  This was a large part of the design process but it naturally works just as well for the 007's.  More HF power means they aren't as dark as they used to be.  The BHSE will roll off a bit so this is a change to the better. *
 
Carbon is far better than KGSSHV and even the BHSE...so is the best option for 007 and 009, hands down without any question.


----------



## arturo71

joseph69 said:


> How are the people making out who ordered/e-mailed from PJ within the past month or so?
> Has PJ shipped/responded since?


 

 I passed one order on 1 July. PJ sent me an email with the order details and I instructions for payment. I wired them the money the same day. Afterwards nothing. I sent them an email one week later but they did not reply.
  
 I want to believe they are a small operation and they closed for summer holidays or suspended activities temporarily (e.g. accident or something). If they wanted to shut down the business they would announce in their website. It is weird if they were to run away with the customers' money after building a brand name operating for a number of years.


----------



## joseph69

arturo71 said:


> I passed one order on 1 July. PJ sent me an email with the order details and I instructions for payment. I wired them the money the same day. Afterwards nothing. I sent them an email one week later but they did not reply.
> I want to believe they are a small operation and they closed for summer holidays or suspended activities temporarily (e.g. accident or something). If they wanted to shut down the business they would announce in their website. It is weird if they were to run away with the customers' money after building a brand name operating for a number of years.


 
 Thanks.


----------



## comzee

Does anybody have opinions on shaving the foam down on 007A ear pads mod?
 Suppose to make the drivers closer to your ear, and mimic mk1 sound.


----------



## rgs9200m

I don't find my SR007 (mark 2.5) warm or rolled off at all. I've had the SR007 in some form going back to 1999, and I never found them recessed or rolled off with either Stax or KG amps.
 If anything, you have to be careful because a shrill recording and a too-revealing DAC can generate digital glare in vocals, so a good, maybe darker DAC, is better.
 (A uniquely great headphone IMHO by the way; still more musical to me than the 009, like Spritzer says. It has classic status by this time I would say.)


----------



## paradoxper

Misread.


----------



## mulveling

torofiestasol said:


> From a Spritzer's post on "the other forum":
> 
> Question:
> *What do you think about the 009 specifically with the Carbon, I've read a lot of your opinions on the 009 over the years but I somehow failed to catch any updated thoughts from you since the Carbon came into existence. Has the Carbon made them worthy, or does the plugged port Omega 2 mk2.98735 still conquer all?*
> ...


 
 Spritzer doesn't like the 009, so consider that before you take his advice on amp parings for it. I own a Carbon and don't own a BHSE -- and I call BS that 10 out of 10 owners of both prefer the Carbon w/ 009. Who are they? The Carbon (which, BY THE WAY, he has a financial interest in selling well) sounds awesome, but it doesn't have tube mids. It may be the better technical/measured performer, but there are definitely some reasons to prefer a BHSE from a _listening_ perspective. Also he shuns vintage tubes, so no big surprise that he's not a fan of tube amps...
  
 Spritzer is a super-talented & skillful guy, but has also has very, very strong opinions (which have changed over time), and he's surrounded by a forum that mostly (with a few exceptions) adapts themselves to his opinions. Things like that get skewed over time.


----------



## yates7592

Anybody here compared Carbon to BHSE with 009?


----------



## bmichels

mulveling said:


> Spritzer doesn't like the 009, so consider that before you take his advice on amp parings for it. .... I call BS that 10 out of 10 owners of both prefer the Carbon w/ 009. .....BY THE WAY, he has a financial interest in selling well......there are definitely some reasons to prefer a BHSE from a _listening_ perspective.


 
  
 +1


----------



## paradoxper

mulveling said:


> Spritzer doesn't like the 009, so consider that before you take his advice on amp parings for it. I own a Carbon and don't own a BHSE -- and I call BS that 10 out of 10 owners of both prefer the Carbon w/ 009. Who are they? The Carbon (which, BY THE WAY, he has a financial interest in selling well) sounds awesome, but it doesn't have tube mids. It may be the better technical/measured performer, but there are definitely some reasons to prefer a BHSE from a _listening_ perspective. Also he shuns vintage tubes, so no big surprise that he's not a fan of tube amps...
> 
> Spritzer is a super-talented & skillful guy, but has also has very, very strong opinions (which have changed over time), and he's surrounded by a forum that mostly (with a few exceptions) adapts themselves to his opinions. Things like that get skewed over time.


 
 He has done the same dogging with the T2. Of which, he ****ed building. I also think he has been held accountable in that regard on the other forum.
  
 I definitely wouldn't take any one persons findings as any absolute. Talk to different Cabon, BHSE, T2 owners and gleam tidbits. but always try to listen for yourself and draw your own conclusions.


----------



## arnaud

I also don't quite understand what the logic is: to his ears the sr009 is totally messed up and he used to claim it needed a specific amp to roll off the treble a bit. I recall reading this number of times since 2010.

Today, shift the other way around: the carbon works better with the 009 because it's got even higher slew rate (read, it rolls of the treble of capacitive load to a lesser extent than other amps like the BHSE which are miles ahead of stax production amps already).

Ime, the main issue one can have with the 009 is not with its treble extension (certainly not in comparison to the Omega 2 that has articifial sparkle at 10kHz), it's in the midrange that is too prominent for those who listen loud etc. There's a reason why SR009 haters typically hail the Omega 2 mk1 (or the current production omega 2 as of late).

Ime again, the SR009 does not sound best with a BHSE in stock tubes (or those previously hyped psvane metal base replica). It needs some xf2 or xf4 to indeed get that midrange magic, I concur with Purk on this one (although I am 100% birgir has a stock of nos mullards for generations to come though  ).

Cheers,
Arnaud


----------



## purk

arnaud said:


> It needs some xf2 or xf4 to indeed get that midrange magic, I concur with Purk on this one (although I am 100% birgir has a stock of nos mullards for generations to come though  ).
> 
> Cheers,
> Arnaud


 
 I certainly think less of the BHSE + SR009 until I tried the Mullard XF2 & Holland XF4 in my system.  Personally, I find the BHSE to be just as good if not slightly better than the KGSSHV Carbon because you can always dial the sound slightly to fit one system better.  There is no right or wrong here and ultimately, it is about listening and musical preference.


----------



## jibzilla

torofiestasol said:


> From a Spritzer's post on "the other forum":
> 
> Question:
> *What do you think about the 009 specifically with the Carbon, I've read a lot of your opinions on the 009 over the years but I somehow failed to catch any updated thoughts from you since the Carbon came into existence. Has the Carbon made them worthy, or does the plugged port Omega 2 mk2.98735 still conquer all?*
> ...


 
  
 I don't know about far better. To all the try BHSE, Carbon, DIY T2 with the 007 people, I pretty much feel that I have. Never listened to any of those energizers, but I listened to a TT and phono pre that costs as much as all 3 of those energizers combined with my kgsshv. Lucky enough to have a Brinkmann dealer near where I live and he was interested in what my headphones sounded like as well.
  
 The hd800/Teton and 007mk1/kgsshv scaled but nowhere near the 009/kgsshv and why I came to the conclusion that I was not just a 007mk1 fan. With my Pavane I felt the 009 and 007mk1 were even and considering how much less the 007mk1 is, I thought I just might be a bigger fan of the 007...Sadly not the case and if I were financially in better shape I would def. get the 009 and build something crazy around it. Like $50k crazy. To all the BHSE, Carbon, DIY T2 guys running a 007, I know it's better but I think you get 98% of what those energizers offer with kgsshv, 009 is a different story in my experience.


----------



## lojay

purk said:


> I certainly think less of the BHSE + SR009 until I tried the Mullard XF2 & Holland XF4 in my system.  Personally, I find the BHSE to be just as good if not slightly better than the KGSSHV Carbon because you can always dial the sound slightly to fit one system better.  There is no right or wrong here and ultimately, it is about listening and musical preference.


 

I think the varied comparisons between the T2, BHSE and Carbon can be accounted for by the difference in tubes people are using. 

My T2 really required the Holland metal based EL34s to open up, with which the amp is as transparent as I hope it could be while having liquid and sweet mids. If I used lesser tubes I could imagine comparing the KGSSHV more favourably to the T2. But with my current tube combo and especially the Chord DAVE, there is no way I'm going back to the KGSSHV. It beats it in terms of transparency and bass, aspects one would otherwise expect a solid state amp to excel in.

Haven't heard the Carbon but would love to. Anyone want to build me one?


----------



## purk

lojay said:


> I think the varied comparisons between the T2, BHSE and Carbon can be accounted for by the difference in tubes people are using.
> 
> My T2 really required the Holland metal based EL34s to open up, with which the amp is as transparent as I hope it could be while having liquid and sweet mids. If I used lesser tubes I could imagine comparing the KGSSHV more favourably to the T2. But with my current tube combo and especially the Chord DAVE, there is no way I'm going back to the KGSSHV. It beats it in terms of transparency and bass, aspects one would otherwise expect a solid state amp to excel in.
> 
> Haven't heard the Carbon but would love to. Anyone want to build me one?




Birgir can...he has made several Carbons.


----------



## paradoxper

For the masses, sure, Birgir makes nice amps. Lojay, you can find a better builder, though. And build it to whatever specs you have in mind as well. Whilst saving cash.


----------



## jgazal

http://www.ikebe-gakki.com/web-ikebe/pr_STAX_intvw/index.html


----------



## kevin gilmore

so here is how this works
  
*Required Slew Rate = 2 x π x Frequency x Peak Voltage  x K*
  
 we can argue about K later, different people have different ideas about the value
 The load is a capacitor and it takes a particular amount of current to charge/discharge the capacitor
 at a particular frequency and voltage.
  
 Lets reference the maximum peak to peak output voltage of the amplifier at 1khz as 0db.
  
 Now lets calculate what amount of current is needed to do 20khz at 0db at the same peak to peak voltage into
 one standard headphone load, 120pf
  
 Now lets figure out (and this part gets complicated) how much more current is needed to guarantee .01% thd at
 20khz at 0db. taking into account the open loop gain.
  
 Its clear that some of my earlier amplifiers with output currents in the range of 5ma to 10ma cannot do full voltage swing
 at 20khz. But will do a full flat frequency response at less than full voltage swing. So the question is how loud do you listen and
 how much actual audio content is at 20khz relative to 1khz.
  
 It is my opinion that 20ma however is enough to do full voltage swing even with 500V power supplies.
  
 2sc4686,2sc3675,2sc5466 etc, cannot do more than about 10ma before they eventually blow up. Even with lots
 of heatsinking. And ixta3n120 has so much output capacitance that even with impossible current numbers it could
 never get there from here.
  
 Cree C2m1000 however can run at at least 30ma at 500V power supplies, is ultra low output capacitance etc.
 So is the current flavor of the decade output device, till something better comes along.
  
 A couple of people think that the carbon is a bit bright at 20ma, and have turned their units down to 18ma. This is
 one way that the amplifier can be tuned.
  
 The performance of an el34 at 20ma begins to effect the lifetime of the tube. Significantly.
 emission labs 20B work fine at 20ma, but have a stupid price and questionable long term reliability.
  
 There is no free lunch.
  
  
  
  
* *


----------



## astrostar59

Oh my goodness look at all those 009s.
  


>


----------



## LaCuffia

I picked up a Stax SR-5 and an SRD-7 in really good condition forum members and I am very impressed with the sound. While it may lack the clarity of the 2170 system, it is more pleasant to listen to and has a weightier mid-range. I can't believe how a thing this old can sound like this! Stax build quality from the '70's must have been first rate.


----------



## HemiSam

One thing that doesn't seem to get air time here is how quickly the Carbon gets ready to play music and how stable it is (no tweaking needed like with the BHSE).  There is no 20 minute or greater warm-up period.  You hit the button and by the time you're sitting down it's putting out amazing music.  That's a real bonus for a lot of folks that don't have endless time or want to service their amp with some frequency.  I've heard this complaint from more than one BHSE owner.
  
 HS


----------



## astrostar59

hemisam said:


> One thing that doesn't seem to get air time here is how quickly the Carbon gets ready to play music and how stable it is (no tweaking needed like with the BHSE).  There is no 20 minute or greater warm-up period.  You hit the button and by the time you're sitting down it's putting out amazing music.  That's a real bonus for a lot of folks that don't have endless time or want to service their amp with some frequency.  I've heard this complaint from more than one BHSE owner.
> 
> HS


 

 Interesting. I need 30 mins for my DAC (tubed) 30 mins for my speaker power amp (SS). Maybe the new Carbon Fetts are not as affected? But the other parts in the amp would need a warm up like the caps I would think. I agree in a real world situation it is mighty convenient and having the option to leave it on when you have to pop out is a bonus in my lifestyle.
  
 I get my Carbon in 2 weeks now so I can try this out. Does your Carbon get hot?


----------



## HemiSam

My KGST (tubed) 400v takes a few minutes to hit the sweet spot...reasonably quick I'd argue....say 20 minutes for optimal sound although it sounds quite good well before then.  It does improve over a few minutes is my point.  
  
 My KGSSHV Carbon puts out sweet sound very quickly and it's proven to be extremely stable in the short month I've had it.  It's a 20ma 450v version and the heatsinks on the sides definitely get warm.  They do their job well.  The amp is a beast.  Built like a brick and weighs well over 30lbs.  Zero regrets having it made.  GREAT design thanks to Dr. KG and nicely executed by a good man.
  
 HS


----------



## JimL11

lacuffia said:


> I picked up a Stax SR-5 and an SRD-7 in really good condition forum members and I am very impressed with the sound. While it may lack the clarity of the 2170 system, it is more pleasant to listen to and has a weightier mid-range. I can't believe how a thing this old can sound like this! Stax build quality from the '70's must have been first rate.


 

 My only set of headphones for many years was a Stax SR-5 and SRD-6, which I bought used for $95.  They reminded me of my Quad ESLs.  Still have them (and the Quads) and they still sound very good.


----------



## mulveling

I had a nice day with Purk and got to recalibrate my ears a bit with his BHSE, DIY T2, Aristaeus, Carbon, and Mjolnir KGSShv mini on 009 and he90. Yggy source; Holland brown-base EL34 xf4/xf5 tubes on the BHSE.
  
 The BHSE/009 really impressed me this time, more than prior listens with a NAD M51 source. The Yggy is a _great_ match here. The BHSE and the T2 are a clear cut above the other amps. It's better than any of the amps I own. Yes, the DIY T2 is still better than BHSE -- it's always the best amp, and anyone who says otherwise obviously hears very differently than me. 
  
 The 009 and he90 are both insanely good on the T2 -- and honestly not that far from each other. Just amazingly perfect in all respects (I'd probably pick 009 in a toss-up there, because I love that headphone so much). The 009 w/ BHSE + Holland EL34 and he90 w/ aristaeus are just below that (I didn't try he90 on BHSE) -- but of those 2, I prefer 009 w/ BHSE. From there, the 009/Carbon (i.e. what I have) is next best. Very excellent. I would place my DIY hev90 balanced w/009 on this level, though I often prefer the latter for its gorgeous mids & tone w/ Mazda silver plate 12ax7. The 009 w/ KGSShv mini and 009 w/ Aristeaus are below that. They lose a good deal compared to the above (better) pairings. But the 009/mini is actually quite good, excellent dynamics & detail -- it's just a bit shouty in the upper mids, which will get fatiguing over longer listening sessions. 
  
 Spritzer can rant about how crappy my particular Carbon build is; fine. I think it's quite nice. But the fact is it still sounds a good deal better than *any* KGSShv build I've heard, including 3 minis from him. And the Head-amp BHSE with these particular Holland tubes sounds a good deal better than my Carbon. And the DIY T2 is better yet (no superior T2 examples from Mjolnir audio here). 
  
 If Spritzer's predications that BHSE owners will be selling them en-masse for his Carbons is true, then_ good_! Can't wait to bite on them BHSE ads -- no build wait!


----------



## Rossliew

@mulveling would you recommend the Carbon or the BHSE (with stock tubes) for the 007?


----------



## mulveling

rossliew said:


> @mulveling would you recommend the Carbon or the BHSE (with stock tubes) for the 007?


 
 I didn't hear 007 today, but based on memory and my personal experience with my 007 Mk I and Carbon, I'd definitely go BHSE there. The 007 Mk I w/ BHSE was an amazing match when I heard it. Stock tubes will probably take it down a notch. And 007 w/ Carbon is excellent. But I'd still go for BHSE there.


----------



## 3X0

mulveling said:


>


 
 I count no fewer than 6 HE90 outputs on that picture (and 6 Stax Pro), with an especially interesting output configuration of 2x Stax Pro and 1x HE90 on the Carbon. Unless my eyes are deceiving me the HE90's headband pad may also be in need of replacement.
  
@purk have you had or do you plan on acquiring the SR-Omega? It's quite an extraordinary pairing with the T2, superior to the HE90 IMHO.


----------



## purk

3x0 said:


> I count no fewer than 6 HE90 outputs on that picture (and 6 Stax Pro), with an especially interesting output configuration of 2x Stax Pro and 1x HE90 on the Carbon. Unless my eyes are deceiving me the HE90's headband pad may also be in need of replacement.
> 
> @purk
> have you had or do you plan on acquiring the SR-Omega? It's quite an extraordinary pairing with the T2, superior to the HE90 IMHO.




Haha...I hope u can lend me a pair of Omega I. Good eyes on the he90, but I have a spare parts for them. I hope to downsize my amp collection soon and I didn't realize he was going to post that picture today.


----------



## arnaud

Did you guys see @n3rdling's Orpheus clone from the wikia meet impression thread? Unfortunately, very few are reporting on it but I am still very curious to hear it...

@mulveling, @purk, I seriously envy this kind of mini meet you put together these . Really want to hear a DIY T2 someday... Thank you for sharing your impressions as usual!

Arnaud


----------



## 3X0

arnaud said:


> Did you guys see @n3rdling's Orpheus clone from the wikia meet impression thread? Unfortunately, very few are reporting on it but I am still very curious to hear it...


 
 Yes. Haven't had time to report in detail, but I can say it sounds very similar to the original HE90 (based on my experience with my own on the same BHSE).


----------



## purk

No chance to hear the clone but I am curious about it as usual. I actually do have a clone made by Mr. Chinsettawong and it sounded very very nice indeed. I am sure that Milos's version will be very similar sound wise. Did u guy able to do an AB comparison between the original and the clone? I am not sure if the clone is completely identical to the original Orpheus or not or just very close to the original. I hope Ne3dling can elaborate some. I sure wish that I am in the west coast from time to time.


----------



## Rossliew

mulveling said:


> I didn't hear 007 today, but based on memory and my personal experience with my 007 Mk I and Carbon, I'd definitely go BHSE there. The 007 Mk I w/ BHSE was an amazing match when I heard it. Stock tubes will probably take it down a notch. And 007 w/ Carbon is excellent. But I'd still go for BHSE there.




Thanks for the recommendation. Best I can afford now is the 007. By the way, where do you guys source the aftermarket xf2/4 tubes from? Don't seem to see them for sale on eBay.


----------



## Spork67

Found some 404's, as suggested by several people.
 They must be some of the ugliest damn headphones ever made!
 I hopel that their sound is at the other end of the spectrum.
 Now the hardest part - waiting for new gear to arrive.
 Hopefully, these will satisfy my audio upgrade itch, for a while at least...


----------



## yates7592

mulveling said:


> Spritzer can rant about how crappy my particular Carbon build is; fine. I think it's quite nice. But the fact is it still sounds a good deal better than *any* KGSShv build I've heard, including 3 minis from him. And the Head-amp BHSE with these particular Holland tubes sounds a good deal better than my Carbon. And the DIY T2 is better yet (no superior T2 examples from Mjolnir audio here).


 
  
 What build / spec is your Carbon? What does Spritzer not like about it?


----------



## Blackmore

Holy moly, it's like 2 years salary of my in there, amazing stuff
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Regarding tubes for BHSE, I have posted this on BHSE trhread, but will do here as well, if anyone can get NOS, Brown based Tesla's and try them on that amp, I do suspect great results. They are much cheaper, but they are great value, imo.
  
  
 Thanks for sharing.
  
  
 Quote:


mulveling said:


> I had a nice day with Purk and got to recalibrate my ears a bit with his BHSE, DIY T2, Aristaeus, Carbon, and Mjolnir KGSShv mini on 009 and he90. Yggy source; Holland brown-base EL34 xf4/xf5 tubes on the BHSE.
> 
> The BHSE/009 really impressed me this time, more than prior listens with a NAD M51 source. The Yggy is a _great_ match here. The BHSE and the T2 are a clear cut above the other amps. It's better than any of the amps I own. Yes, the DIY T2 is still better than BHSE -- it's always the best amp, and anyone who says otherwise obviously hears very differently than me.
> 
> ...


----------



## lojay

I'm very lucky to have the best sounding amp / headphone combo of the bunch


----------



## potkettleblack

Any impressions on the L300 yet?


----------



## Pokemonn

arnaud said:


> Really want to hear a DIY T2 someday... Thank you for sharing your impressions as usual!
> 
> Arnaud


 
 I am planning to build a DIY T2
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was a electronics DIY guy since teenager. probably I can build at least one unit.
 so I will let you hear yggy + DIY T2 + 009 combo when my DIY T2 is finished.


----------



## HemiSam

Thanks for sharing, Mulveling and purk.  Always good to read impressions from those that are able to do some back to back listening.  It may be subjective...imperfect, but it is indeed interesting and hopefully telling for those with similar tastes.  
  
 I look forward to reading more impressions like these with the 007A's in play.  They cater to my personal tastes.  Also, it'll be good to read more impressions from KGSSHV Carbon owners as their numbers in the wild grow.  I've been impressed with the Carbon > Ygg > 007A chain.
  
 HS


----------



## LaCuffia

Does anybody know whether the Woo Audio amp advertised for $499 can be configured to handle both normal and pro bias or just one of them ? I am looking for an economical adapter that can handle both the older and newer Stax earspeakers. 

Also, I have the SRD-7 now with the SR-5. Would there be any appreciable difference in performance with the Woo amp?


----------



## astrostar59

lacuffia said:


> Does anybody know whether the Woo Audio amp advertised for $499 can be configured to handle both normal and pro bias or just one of them ? I am looking for an economical adapter that can handle both the older and newer Stax earspeakers.
> 
> Also, I have the SRD-7 now with the SR-5. Would there be any appreciable difference in performance with the Woo amp?


 

 I would spend some time reading hear on that. There have been 'issues'.... see answer in post after mine (I don't get specific on hear anymore, let others do that).


----------



## Arthrumus

lacuffia said:


> Does anybody know whether the Woo Audio amp advertised for $499 can be configured to handle both normal and pro bias or just one of them ? I am looking for an economical adapter that can handle both the older and newer Stax earspeakers.
> 
> Also, I have the SRD-7 now with the SR-5. Would there be any appreciable difference in performance with the Woo amp?


 If you are talking about the Woo Wee then you are probably better off saving your money and sticking with your SRD 7. The Wee is just a transformer box like the SRD-7 and has been found with out of spec bias circuits that can destroy diaphragms over time.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

What's the best amp pairing for the original omega?


----------



## 3X0

T2 by a landslide for me but I've only owned the SRM-323S and BHSE before. I briefly tried it with a KGSSHV and wasn't a huge fan of what I heard.

Shouldn't be a huge surprise since SR-Omega + SRM-T2 was the statement pairing from the original Stax (before they went under).


----------



## NoPants

I also prefer the omega with the t2 over the bhse but I might just be biased


----------



## purk

The T2 is the one amp that can rule all phones for me. Everything that I've pluged in the T2 always yield a magnificent sound.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

What's the easiest way to get such an amp?


----------



## chinsettawong

purk said:


> The T2 is the one amp that can rule all phones for me. Everything that I've pluged in the T2 always yield a magnificent sound.


 
  
 Does that include my DIY phones as well?


----------



## kevin gilmore

chinsettawong said:


> Does that include my DIY phones as well?


 

 yes your headphones work great on a diy t2
  


bosiemoncrieff said:


> What's the easiest way to get such an amp?


 
  
 there is no easy way


----------



## purk

chinsettawong said:


> Does that include my DIY phones as well?


 
 For sure!


----------



## chinsettawong

kevin gilmore said:


> yes your headphones work great on a diy t2


 
  
 That's so very nice to know.  Thank you sir!


----------



## dubharmonic

I've been lurking in here for a while now, and everyone's comments have me extremely curious! Before buying though, I'd prefer to try Stax out. I've been looking around Chicago and can't find anyone with them in stock. I would have expected that the 3rd largest city in the US would have some kind of reseller..
  
 Have you all been ordering online based on faith? If not, where have you been able to audition them? I'd really appreciate any guidance. This is driving me nuts.


----------



## TraneTime

dubharmonic said:


> I've been lurking in here for a while now, and everyone's comments have me extremely curious! Before buying though, I'd prefer to try Stax out. I've been looking around Chicago and can't find anyone with them in stock. I would have expected that the 3rd largest city in the US would have some kind of reseller..
> 
> Have you all been ordering online based on faith? If not, where have you been able to audition them? I'd really appreciate any guidance. This is driving me nuts.


 
 I believe there is a big audio show in your neck of the woods every year.  Stax may attend.  You can hear them there if they do.  You might also be able to hear them at a meet.  In a huge metropolitan area like Chicago there is likely to be members who will bring in their Stax rig.  I would not buy them on faith.  Not everyone likes the Stax sound.  At CanJam SoCal I heard an SR009 and a Blue Hawaii SE and didn't like it.  I then heard an L700 and Stax SRM006tS (less than a 3rd of the cost of the 009 and BHSE) and loved it.  You should really listen to them first before you make an expensive mistake.  Good luck.


----------



## bearFNF

dubharmonic said:


> I've been lurking in here for a while now, and everyone's comments have me extremely curious! Before buying though, I'd prefer to try Stax out. I've been looking around Chicago and can't find anyone with them in stock. I would have expected that the 3rd largest city in the US would have some kind of reseller..
> 
> Have you all been ordering online based on faith? If not, where have you been able to audition them? I'd really appreciate any guidance. This is driving me nuts.


AXPONA is a good start. Or check the local meets thread.

We bought our Lambdas back in the 80s from Audio Consultants in Hinsdale, but I don't think they are a dealer anymore.

 There is, however, a picture of a Stax headphone on their product page so you might give them a call and ask.


----------



## soren_brix

dubharmonic said:


> I've been lurking in here for a while now, and everyone's comments have me extremely curious! Before buying though, I'd prefer to try Stax out. I've been looking around Chicago and can't find anyone with them in stock. I would have expected that the 3rd largest city in the US would have some kind of reseller..
> 
> Have you all been ordering online based on faith? If not, where have you been able to audition them? I'd really appreciate any guidance. This is driving me nuts.


 
 Stax isn't real, never existed in real life ... originally founded at Second Life and eventually crawled into various places where things that aren't real are subject for endless discussions.
 Some even believe they have actually heard a Stax ... pure imagination of course ... but says a lot about out the autosuggestion ability ...
 Stax sometimes turns up in the classifieds, and are sold as well. The buyer never receives anything of course, but are now caught by the conspiracy and will afterwards frequently report about impressions, usually "never heard anything like it" or similar expression, which is quite true ... the movement is actually so strong that other manufactors are even producing small pieces of plastic they put onto their drivers to mimic what isn't really there and be like Stax ... of course putting more material onto material doesn't make anything less material and won't make it disappear into the ether.
 the pros of being into Stax is that you can listen as loud as you want, it will never hurt your hearing and always sound superb assuming you have reach the level where you can imagine the perfect amp as well. It does take some practice and a fat wallet to be part of the non-existing, and to cope with all the rumors of the next thing not to be, but quite rewarding when succeeding


----------



## dubharmonic

bearfnf said:


> AXPONA is a good start. Or check the local meets thread.
> 
> We bought our Lambdas back in the 80s from Audio Consultants in Hinsdale, but I don't think they are a dealer anymore.
> 
> There is, however, a picture of a Stax headphone on their product page so you might give them a call and ask.


 
  
 My house is only blocks away from an Audio Consultants shop. When I asked them about demoing Stax equipment they got a sour look and said that their contacts at Stax recently vanished. Even the units in for repair were never seen again. It makes me nervous about buying from Stax, but at the same time I desperately want to understand what I'm missing out on.
  
 Thanks for the tips, everyone!


----------



## soren_brix

dubharmonic said:


> ... said that their contacts at Stax recently vanished. Even the units in for repair were never seen again...


 
 Wonder why ...


----------



## 3X0

I tried giving the HE90 an honest go with the T2 but it just didn't hold up.
  
 It's a bit puzzling to me since I recall really enjoying the HE90 out of the BHSE perhaps even over the Omega (I know, I know) but it could be the honeymoon days being long over.
  
 My T2 doesn't have a native HE90 output but neither did my BHSE.


----------



## purk

3x0 said:


> I tried giving the HE90 an honest go with the T2 but it just didn't hold up.
> 
> It's a bit puzzling to me since I recall really enjoying the HE90 out of the BHSE perhaps even over the Omega (I know, I know) but it could be the honeymoon days being long over.
> 
> My T2 doesn't have a native HE90 output but neither did my BHSE.


 
 My T2 is properly wired with the HE90 as well as the BHSE, and the HE90 is definitely much better out of my BHSE.  I would  rate the HE90 as being the best out of the T2, Aristaeus, Carbon = HEV90, BHSE, and KGSSHV500V version.


----------



## TraneTime

dubharmonic said:


> My house is only blocks away from an Audio Consultants shop. When I asked them about demoing Stax equipment they got a sour look and said that their contacts at Stax recently vanished. Even the units in for repair were never seen again. It makes me nervous about buying from Stax, but at the same time I desperately want to understand what I'm missing out on.
> 
> Thanks for the tips, everyone!


 
 Yama is the U.S. distributor for Stax.  It's never a paticularly satisfying experience buying from them.  Phones aren't answered, voice mail is full, e-mails get answered 10 days after the original was transmitted.  I think they're a very small operation.  However, when they have given me a approximate delivery date, I have received the items on time and in good order.  You need some patience with them.  As I said in my earlier post though, demo first.  Electrostats aren't everyone's cup of tea.


----------



## TraneTime

soren_brix said:


> Stax isn't real, never existed in real life ... originally founded at Second Life and eventually crawled into various places where things that aren't real are subject for endless discussions.
> Some even believe they have actually heard a Stax ... pure imagination of course ... but says a lot about out the autosuggestion ability ...
> Stax sometimes turns up in the classifieds, and are sold as well. The buyer never receives anything of course, but are now caught by the conspiracy and will afterwards frequently report about impressions, usually "never heard anything like it" or similar expression, which is quite true ... the movement is actually so strong that other manufactors are even producing small pieces of plastic they put onto their drivers to mimic what isn't really there and be like Stax ... of course putting more material onto material doesn't make anything less material and won't make it disappear into the ether.
> the pros of being into Stax is that you can listen as loud as you want, it will never hurt your hearing and always sound superb assuming you have reach the level where you can imagine the perfect amp as well. It does take some practice and a fat wallet to be part of the non-existing, and to cope with all the rumors of the next thing not to be, but quite rewarding when succeeding


 
 I always thought I was just imagining it.


----------



## dubharmonic

tranetime said:


> Yama is the U.S. distributor for Stax.  It's never a paticularly satisfying experience buying from them.  Phones aren't answered, voice mail is full, e-mails get answered 10 days after the original was transmitted.  I think they're a very small operation.  However, when they have given me a approximate delivery date, I have received the items on time and in good order.  You need some patience with them.  As I said in my earlier post though, demo first.  Electrostats aren't everyone's cup of tea.


 

 Obviously, you're not a golfer.
  
 I'll find a way, eventually, I was hoping for a timeline of weeks instead of months. Considering the current boom in headphone interest, I bet Stax could be doing a lot more business right now.


----------



## dubharmonic

soren_brix said:


> Wonder why ...


 

 Me too! If anyone knows more about what's going on at Stax HQ I'd love to hear about it. I also can't help but wonder if some of these American upstarts like MrSpeakers and Audeze might have a market opportunity.


----------



## soren_brix

dubharmonic said:


> Obviously, you're not a golfer.
> 
> I'll find a way, eventually, I was hoping for a timeline of weeks instead of months. Considering the current boom in headphone interest, I bet Stax could be doing a lot more business right now.


 
 I totally agree. Their color choices are impeccably and would match an experienced golfer - you wouldn't even notice hitting the balls wearing Stax .. that is how good they are


----------



## dubharmonic

soren_brix said:


> I totally agree. Their color choices are impeccably and would match an experienced golfer - you wouldn't even notice hitting the balls wearing Stax .. that is how good they are


----------



## TraneTime

dubharmonic said:


>


----------



## Tinkerer

dubharmonic said:


> Considering the current boom in headphone interest, I bet Stax could be doing a lot more business right now.


 
  
 Fun fact, they sell pretty much every omega frame they make as fast as they can crank them out. They just suffer from the not-atypical Japanese company "Not Japan? Who cares." halfassery in their dealings with the rest of the world and who they let handle their distribution.
  
 Kinda like how Germany sells more Mercedes to Germans than all North America combined when they have 1/4 the population of the US.


----------



## kevin gilmore

He90 run at a bias more than 500v is a very bad idea


----------



## purk

kevin gilmore said:


> He90 run at a bias more than 500v is a very bad idea


 
 My builder (Steve) ran mine at 500V on both the T2 & KGSSHV Carbon.  I owned the ES-1 for one week and it was indeed a pretty bad idea.


----------



## gepardcv

@purk, do your T2 and Carbon 500V outputs have Sennheiser or Stax output jacks? If the former, any idea where your builder might have found them (or made them from scratch)?


----------



## 3X0

My adapter cable has the recommended 4M7 resistor in-series with the bias wire, but I did use this with the standard 580V bias jacks of the BHSE for a while (without issue).
  
 One of the output jacks on my T2 is configured for 500V bias and that's the only one I'm using with the HE90 now and getting meh sound from.
  
 SR-Omega sounds fabulous on both outputs.
  
 P.S., @gepardcv here's the standard Fischer female jack for your DIY needs: https://www.moon-audio.com/sennheiser-headphone-chassis-mount-connector-he90.html
 The jacks on @purk's gear all seem to be using the same authentic connector. Much more easily-sourced than the stuff on the HE60/HEV70.


----------



## purk

gepardcv said:


> @purk, do your T2 and Carbon 500V outputs have Sennheiser or Stax output jacks? If the former, any idea where your builder might have found them (or made them from scratch)?


 
 Its the female HE90 mounting jack.  I bought it from Moon-Audio.


----------



## TraneTime

arnaud said:


> Did you guys see @n3rdling's Orpheus clone from the wikia meet impression thread? Unfortunately, very few are reporting on it but I am still very curious to hear it...
> 
> @mulveling, @purk, I seriously envy this kind of mini meet you put together these . Really want to hear a DIY T2 someday... Thank you for sharing your impressions as usual!
> 
> Arnaud


 

 I got to hear it at the meet and it sounds sweet.  The only problem with it was it would repeatedly cut out briefly when the volume was turned up.  It was plugged into a BHSE.  I really think Milos is on to something with this and I hope more people hear it.


----------



## touok

Hi everybody, I'd like to enter the stax club  I have Stax 007 MK1, Lambda Signature and Gamma Pro. 
 Stax sound is addicting! I can't listen to music on a dynamic headphones no more.
  
 I use them with "Lundahl Stax Transformer" and Musical Fidelity A300 amp.


----------



## Spork67

My amp arrived today.
 Ebay has refunded my 507's, and I'm waiting for some 404's from Germany.
 Gives me time to give this poor neglected thing a good clean.


----------



## LaCuffia

So what is the best Stax amp/driver to pair with both normal and pro bias ear-speakers?   The only thing I see is the Stax SRM-T1, but that seems hard to find.  What I am looking for is a jack of all trades type of amp/driver that can handle both vintage and newer models with ease.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Stax SRM-1/mk2 Pro is the swiss army knife of Stax amp. 
 It doesn't have the T1 lovely mids, but more steam (not enough for 007 nonetheless), smaller footprint, cheaper.
 Get one, check PS caps / let them change, and you're good to go.
 And maybe one day, you'll finish with some BHSE, as I did recently 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## LaCuffia

Hey thanks....wonder if it would be good enough to power a L500 or L700 if I decide to go that route eventually.  Don't think a 007 or 009 would ever be in my budget anyway.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Enough power, no doubt. Looks like L500/L700 do love pairing with SRM-006ts, which is almost the same as the T1. It's also a good choice...btw, there's no bad choice in the world of Stax 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## Sko0byDoo

> And maybe one day, you'll finish with some BHSE, as I did recently
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 No aspiration for a T2?


----------



## LaCuffia

I see that most SRM 006ts have two pro bias inputs but I thought I remembered seeing a model with both normal and pro, unless I am mistaken.


----------



## Arthrumus

The original 006t had two pro bias jacks and one normal bias. But I'm pretty sure that all 006ts units are pro only.


----------



## LaCuffia

The SR-5 / SRD-7 combo that I just got is awesome.  It's actually become one of the best systems I've heard yet - certainly beats any dynamic headphone that I've tried and I like it better than the 2170 because it's a bit less bright (although the 2170 was impressive in its own right).
  
 Maybe when it's time to graduate to a modern Stax I'll just get a pro bias driver.  From what I've read, the L700 / 006st combo seems to even come close to 009 levels of greatness.


----------



## ricercar

lacuffia said:


> So what is the best Stax amp/driver to pair with both normal and pro bias ear-speakers?   The only thing I see is the Stax SRM-T1, but that seems hard to find.  What I am looking for is a jack of all trades type of amp/driver that can handle both vintage and newer models with ease.


 

 Some models of the SRM-1/MK2 have both Pro and Normal Bias.
  

  
 Shop carefully, because I've seen models with 2 outputs the same (¿Pro?).


----------



## LaCuffia

Is $625 a good price for a SRM-T1?


----------



## JK-47

lacuffia said:


> Is $625 a good price for a SRM-T1?


 

 No, they can be had from Japan for $350-$450 shipped to the USA, depending on cosmetic condition.


----------



## LaCuffia

The problem though with Japanese import is you would need some type of transformer to use them in US? Is that a simple fix? I am a total novice with this stuff.


----------



## JK-47

lacuffia said:


> The problem though with Japanese import is you would need some type of transformer to use them in US? Is that a simple fix? I am a total novice with this stuff.


 
 You could easily get a step down transformer from ebay or amazon, or search here to show you how to rewire the transformer that's already in the unit. Either way, you're not going to have to spend an arm and a leg.


----------



## Spork67

IDK about T1, but my SRM-1/Mk2 has a voltage selector (jumper on the rear) that allows 100, 117, 220 or 240v input selections.


----------



## Michgelsen

Some T1s have that too, although I'm not sure whether all models have the selector. There are slight variations between T1s.
 Depending on location, cosmetic condition but also whether it has been recapped, I think $625 can be a fair price but is indeed on the high side. I have seen them go for 700-800 in the past, but this was more than five years ago. Nowadays I think you might almost get a 717 for that kind of money.


----------



## astrostar59

michgelsen said:


> Nowadays I think you might almost get a 717 for that kind of money.


 
 I can endorse the 717 as I had one until recently. IMO it is one of the best sounding Stax amps and better than the current 727 (without doing the circuit mod).


----------



## TraneTime

arthrumus said:


> The original 006t had two pro bias jacks and one normal bias. But I'm pretty sure that all 006ts units are pro only.


 
 The 006ts is 2 pro only.


----------



## TraneTime

lacuffia said:


> The SR-5 / SRD-7 combo that I just got is awesome.  It's actually become one of the best systems I've heard yet - certainly beats any dynamic headphone that I've tried and I like it better than the 2170 because it's a bit less bright (although the 2170 was impressive in its own right).
> 
> Maybe when it's time to graduate to a modern Stax I'll just get a pro bias driver.  From what I've read, the L700 / 006st combo seems to even come close to 009 levels of greatness.


 
 I've never had a 009.  They only reach their full potential with the super high end amps which I can't afford.  But the L700 and 006ts is KILLER!!!


----------



## LaCuffia

I decided to go for the T1. Can't wait to try it with my SR-5 and maybe next year get the L700. I've read so many good things about the T1 including that Stax used it as their reference in the factory as late as 2011 or 2012. I didn't want to take a chance with ordering directly from Japan. It also doesn't seem like the T1 comes along very often.


----------



## JK-47

lacuffia said:


> I decided to go for the T1. Can't wait to try it with my SR-5 and maybe next year get the L700. I've read so many good things about the T1 including that Stax used it as their reference in the factory as late as 2011 or 2012. I didn't want to take a chance with ordering directly from Japan. It also doesn't seem like the T1 comes along very often.




Was it the T1, T1S, or TW1 ?


----------



## LaCuffia

SRM-T1.  It has two pro bias inputs, and one normal.  That's what I wanted - something that could handle both vintage and newer Stax earspeakers.


----------



## purk

Should have gone for the T1S or T1W if price isn't much higher.  The T1W is just beautiful unit.


----------



## LaCuffia

There are a couple of T1W units on eBay now but over $900 with shipping and comes from Japan.   I am fairly new to Stax.  Even the SR-5 with the SRD-7 hooked up to a Sony mass market receiver sounded greats to me, so I am sure the T1 will more than fit my needs and impress me highly.   All I know is that I can't go back to dynamic or planar headphones for a while.  Stax is just too good.


----------



## astrostar59

My goodness, what a fabulous set up there! Dreamville actually... and all switched on at once, I can see the mains meter spinning!


----------



## purk

lacuffia said:


> There are a couple of T1W units on eBay now but over $900 with shipping and comes from Japan.   I am fairly new to Stax.  Even the SR-5 with the SRD-7 hooked up to a Sony mass market receiver sounded greats to me, so I am sure the T1 will more than fit my needs and impress me highly.   All I know is that I can't go back to dynamic or planar headphones for a while.  Stax is just too good.


 
 The T1W and T1S are identical with the 1W having a pre-out feature.


----------



## crazychile

Another place to consider is Yahoo auctions Japan. They have an English version.

The translated descriptions can be pretty cryptic, but with shipping I see these going for $400-$500 pretty regularly.

Can any of this old stuff even be fixed in the US anymore?


----------



## Michgelsen

Yes, as long as you can find a reasonably good local audio / tv technician. Here in the Netherlands they're becoming scarce.
 My SRM-T1 broke down once, but it could be fixed. Internally the amp is very simple (to service), with through-hole components everywhere.


----------



## LaCuffia

The one I purchased appears to be in really nice cosmetic condition and I'd like to think that the people that have owned it have taken good care of it too. If you are buying Stax equipment to begin with you are probably somewhat obsessive about maintaining your gear.

I wanted at least some measure of protection so that's why I went with eBay and a US based seller with a good reputation. Perhaps worth the extra $100 or so. 

I will report back with my impression when I receive it next week.


----------



## martyn73

Hi,
  
 Please can anyone advise if the SRM-727II amplifier is truly fully balanced and, if so, audibly benefits from a dual differential DAC? I have a MX-DAC by Musical Fidelity which only has one DAC chip and little else on the PCB, whereas other DACs have one DAC chip per channel, e.g. Gustard X20U. My MX-DAC is connected by XLR cables to the SRM-727II (which I have no intention of replacing) and a decent USB cable to my desktop PC. I saw this on Stax's website but not sure if it answers the question: "A pure balance DC amplifier configuration is used for the large current emitter follower Class A output stage."
  
 Thanks, 
  
  
 Martyn


----------



## Arthrumus

martyn73 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Please can anyone advise if the SRM-727II amplifier is truly fully balanced and, if so, audibly benefits from a dual differential DAC? I have a MX-DAC by Musical Fidelity which only has one DAC chip and little else on the PCB, whereas other DACs have one DAC chip per channel, e.g. Gustard X20U. My MX-DAC is connected by XLR cables to the SRM-727II (which I have no intention of replacing) and a decent USB cable to my desktop PC. I saw this on Stax's website but not sure if it answers the question: "A pure balance DC amplifier configuration is used for the large current emitter follower Class A output stage."
> 
> ...


 
 It is truly balanced, but whether it benefits from a balanced source or not has more to do with how well implemented the balanced output of the DAC is than the amp. Electrostatic headphones and by extension amplifiers are inherently balanced in nature, but well designed amps such as Stax and Kevin Gilmore amps can natively accept single ended inputs with no need for dedicated phase splitting and thus no performance loss, so a balanced source is not necessarily superior to a single ended source on these amps.


----------



## rgs9200m

I owned the T1W amp for several years and didn't think it sounded very good. I bought it new as my first Stax amp back around 1997 and used it with Lambda Novas and later with the SR007-mk1. I also tried it as a preamp with similar results.


----------



## Spork67

Before:
  

  

  
  
 and After:


----------



## purk

rgs9200m said:


> I owned the T1W amp for several years and didn't think it sounded very good. I bought it new as my first Stax amp back around 1997 and used it with Lambda Novas and later with the SR007-mk1. I also tried it as a preamp with similar results.


 
  
 They only sound good with the Lambda which is what it was made for IMO.  Beautiful unit however.


----------



## ucanuup

Never owned a stax headphone before. From what I heard, stax headphones are delicate, vulnerable to dust moisture and impact. I have a pair of koss esp950 and they indeed require extra care to make sure no dust gets in the drivers. Is this also the case for stax headphones? I am interested in the sr-009 after listening to my new kse1500 but this issue scares me. It sucks if hissing or channel imbalance happens to your $3000 headphone.


----------



## Arthrumus

ucanuup said:


> Never owned a stax headphone before. From what I heard, stax headphones are delicate, vulnerable to dust moisture and impact. I have a pair of koss esp950 and they indeed require extra care to make sure no dust gets in the drivers. Is this also the case for stax headphones? I am interested in the sr-009 after listening to my new kse1500 but this issue scares me. It sucks if hissing or channel imbalance happens to your $3000 headphone.


 
 I would not call them delicate at all, in many ways they are more robust than dynamic headphones. I have three sets Stax headphones from the 1970s all of which were not cared for particularly well by the previous owners and yet they all function flawlessly without hiss or channel imbalance. They are sensitive to prolonged exposure to high humidity, but that's about it. My 1979 Stax SR-Lambda Normal Bias was stored in a non climate controlled attic for around 20 years by the previous owner with no detriment to the performance of the headphones, that alone speaks volumes.


----------



## LaCuffia

It's hard to know how long a modern dynamic or planar headphone would last as compared to Stax. All I know is that my SR-5 is from the 70's and works fine. That in and of itself is amazing to me and is a testament to durability and reliability. There is a suggestion that Stax made after Edifier purchased them might not be built with same quality but that remains to be seen. From what I understand Edifier gives them pretty much complete automony.


----------



## JimL11

ucanuup said:


> Never owned a stax headphone before. From what I heard, stax headphones are delicate, vulnerable to dust moisture and impact. I have a pair of koss esp950 and they indeed require extra care to make sure no dust gets in the drivers. Is this also the case for stax headphones? I am interested in the sr-009 after listening to my new kse1500 but this issue scares me. It sucks if hissing or channel imbalance happens to your $3000 headphone.


 
 Agree with the other posts above, I have a pair of Stax SR-5 that I bought used in the early 80s that works perfectly, a pair of Lambda Nova Signatures that were made in the 90s that work fine, and a pair of SR007 Mk II that sound great.  AFAIK all Staxes have dust covers that protect the diaphragms from dust.  Sure, if you kick them around like a football maybe they will break, but if you abuse anything it will break.  I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## bearFNF

My Lambda normal bias, bought in the 80's, survived my ex stomping on them and they still work fine.


----------



## Jones Bob

That's just plain mean. :eek:


----------



## Pokemonn

my lambda Signature are repaird twice(cannel imbalances) at stax factory since 80s


----------



## LaCuffia

I guess you could say that, while generally more expensive than most headphones, Stax will probably outlast most of your household appliances and automobiles.  That's not a bad investment.


----------



## Spork67

You just have to look in the classified section to see STAX gear from the 70's and even earlier for sale. Not as "collectors" stuff, but as working equipment. You don't see a gear from many other manufacturers that is going on 40 - 50 years old. That doesn't sound like "delicate" to me.


----------



## TraneTime

ucanuup said:


> Never owned a stax headphone before. From what I heard, stax headphones are delicate, vulnerable to dust moisture and impact. I have a pair of koss esp950 and they indeed require extra care to make sure no dust gets in the drivers. Is this also the case for stax headphones? I am interested in the sr-009 after listening to my new kse1500 but this issue scares me. It sucks if hissing or channel imbalance happens to your $3000 headphone.


 
 Twice in the past month I've stepped on the cable while getting up from a chair which yanked my Lamda's off my head and they slammed on the floor with no damage.  They can appear flimsy but they are not.  Though I wouldn't keep doing that.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Durability isn't a problem, dust and moisture can be.  Keep your Stax under a bag though, like the Stax dust cover, and then dust shouldn't be an issue.  As for moisture, just keep all wet things away from them.  Will they be okay in a more tropical environment without special precautions taken?  I can't say.  Worst case scenario, keep them in a box/case when not using them.


----------



## Thenewguy007

spork67 said:


> Before:
> 
> [/URL]




Is the white stuff scratches or just dirt?


----------



## Spork67

Scratches.
 Nothing an orbital sander, a detail sander, and a few coats of paint couldn't fix.
  
 Inside, while dusty, looks fine.
 No bulging caps, loose solder joins, corrosion, or burnt looking bits.
  
 Won't know for sure until my HPs arrive.


----------



## Michgelsen

I would advise to replace the caps anyway, because of their age.


----------



## Tinkerer

spork67 said:


> Scratches.
> Nothing an orbital sander, a detail sander, and a few coats of paint couldn't fix.
> 
> Inside, while dusty, looks fine.
> ...


 
  
 After you clean it out, I'd still check all the usual stuff with a multimeter in the meantime like balance and offset and bias at the testpoint, both at cold start and warm. Plus it will give you something to adjust and make better while you wait for your headphones.


----------



## Spork67

michgelsen said:


> I would advise to replace the caps anyway, because of their age.


 
  
  


tinkerer said:


> After you clean it out, I'd still check all the usual stuff with a multimeter in the meantime like balance and offset and bias at the testpoint, both at cold start and warm. Plus it will give you something to adjust and make better while you wait for your headphones.


 
  
 I can clean things and visually inspect.
 I can reapply thermal paste where needed, and I can change a fuse.
 But...
 My soldering "skills" aren't much, and I don't know if I'd be confident poking probes in there with the unit powered up.
  
 What is a likely outcome if the caps are kaput due to age? I'm hoping the fuse will blow and that would be that, or is it likely to cause more damage? 
 Where abouts are these testpoints you mention? I'm not a skilled Tinkerer... 
  
 There is a good electrical appliance repairman in town, maybe I will get him to check it out and replace and doubtful components.
 Or can someone link me to a technical manual for this amp? Maybe between some good diagrams and google I could learn how to do some of this stuff myself.


----------



## Michgelsen

spork67 said:


> What is a likely outcome if the caps are kaput due to age? I'm hoping the fuse will blow and that would be that, or is it likely to cause more damage?
> Where abouts are these testpoints you mention? I'm not a skilled Tinkerer...
> 
> There is a good electrical appliance repairman in town, maybe I will get him to check it out and replace and doubtful components.
> Or can someone link me to a technical manual for this amp? Maybe between some good diagrams and google I could learn how to do some of this stuff myself.


 
  
 The caps will slowly lose capacitance when aging, especially when in a hot environment. If you replace them, you will bring the power supply back to its original specs. This means that the amp will sound like new again. A better power supply usually makes the sound tighter, better controlled and more dynamic, because it can quickly deliver the amp all the power it needs during transients in the music. Obviously, from here I can't say for sure whether your amp needs it, or that it will sound a lot better if you have it recapped. I have personally experienced what an upgraded power supply can do, and while I stay far away from snake oil in the hifi business, improving power supplies is something that definitely brings real improvements. To be on the safe side, recapping is sometimes recommended every ten years. It also depends on the quality of the capacitors and on the temperature they reach when the device is on. Either way, for a device aged 20 years or more, I would suggest to do it. It shouldn't cost much if you go to a local repairman. If you don't, it's not as if the amp will blow up someday.
  
 I do not have the schematics for the amp, but if you ask Kevin Gilmore or Spritzer, one of them can probably give them to you. The repairman may find this useful, although it is often not essential that he has them.
  
 Since electrostatic amps are always balanced, there is a trimpot inside to make sure that both + and - of the same channel are centered around 0V. Sometimes the amp drifts over time, leaving you with an offset voltage. By plugging a volt meter into the headphone outputs (when the amp is fully warmed up) you can measure whether the amp has a DC offset in a channel, and use the trimpot to correct this. An offset of a few volts is nothing to worry about, but you can try to adjust it to as close as 0 as you can get. If you have a very large offset and/or can't get it to 0V, something is wrong inside the amp.


----------



## LaCuffia

The SRM-T1 sounds really nice with the SR-5.  Probably a tad softer and less punchy than with the SRD-7 and Sony receiver, but I think a better representation of what the SR-5 should sound like.  I really don't like to mess with EQ too much anyway.  Plus, I have only used it about an hour or so, and I noticed the sound improves the longer the T1 is on.  I just didn't realize how large the T1 is, but it is in really good cosmetic condition with hardly any scratches or scuff marks.  I am pretty happy with it, and excited that I can now power both vintage and new Stax earspeakers.
  
 Question - I don't plan on keeping the T1 on for more than 2 or 3 hours at at time, but is there anything to be concerned about with the heat it generates?  I know it supposed to get warm but is there a point where it become dangerous?


----------



## astrostar59

*My KGSShv Carbon review*
 Maybe should be in the amp reviews section but may get overlooked in there?
  


  
 This is a quick review of a DIY built Stat amplifier using boards designed by Kevin Gilmour and others. It was built for me by 'headinclouds' and is a limited release (all sold).
 However, the boards are available to the DIY community, so if anyone wants to find a builder go over to the other place for details. Building one yourself is not for the faint hearted or novice as high voltages are involved and the circuit is fairly complex.
  
 Bear in mind I have my other DAC, the AMR DP-777 here for this review, not my bigger Audio Note DAC 5 Special.
  
 The first impression on the very first note was wow. Information overload, guess not helped by playing a busy trance track. Comparing how my previous KGSShv (really great amp in it's own right) sounded with my 007As or my 009s, this Carbon is more lively and has more detail. It however has no sharp sounding treble or digital / unnatural sounding with that extra information. The soundstage is super wide and 3D and the instrument separation superb and amazing layering. It is not as warm and cosy as my Sanyo KGSShv. That amp was possibly more forgiving? There is tons of information hitting you at once, all clean and in the right place, remarkable. Even when it gets super busy you can separate everything and position it in the 'head stage', no mean feet.
  
 The midrange is damb good, not sucked out or lacking information. It's all there. Vocal are very natural and piano realistic. It reminds me of a really great speaker setup with big dynamics and great timbre. The bass especially on the 009s is very fast and very textured, no muddy one note going on here. It also doesn't muddy the rest of the audio band even if it is a bass heavy track. It also goes very deep. Decay and echoes, tiny stuff in the background are all there, like a master tape. I get the feeling there is tons of spare power on hand, it is on tick over and is driving the 007s or 009s with ease.
  
 I have read the SIC Fets are a big deal in the Carbon and probably part of the reason why it sounds so good. The power supply also uses the newer more advanced GR supplies (compared to my KGSShv) and the extra 2 LV 15V DC boards may also have an impact. My experience with various power amplifiers and DACs over the years seems to confirm a better and cleaner supply = better sound. I don't go into technicalities, the info it out there for ones who want to read further.
  
 I can say thankfully my NOS AMR DAC is super smooth and no treble coldness so it is great, no issues so far. Female vocals or jazz, symbols are all fine. There is a tiny bit less bass in the Carbon than my old KGSShv, but it is faster and more textured, less one note and bloated. The amp grabs the 007s and wrings the last bit of life out of them, bit like bursting a ballon behind a Labrador and seeing it run as fast as a Border Collie.
  
 With the 009s the soundstage goes even wider and the transparency goes up a notch compared to the 007s. It is still super clean though. It is as all things, the closer to the source = the less hidden are the sources possible faults. So a good clean and balanced sounding DAC is key I think.
  
 It does get a tiny bit hotter than my old amp, about 38°C on the hottest part of the heat sinks. No big deal.
  
 I'll let others rate the Carbon against Stax amps or other amps like the BHSE. Just need to say it is the best sound I have heard so far and am super happy with this amp. It is incredible how much better the 007s and 009s can get IMO.


----------



## yates7592

Nice review Julian. IME bass is one of the last areas to fully bloom so with more burn in your bass impression WRT Sanyo KGSSHV may change?


----------



## astrostar59

yates7592 said:


> Nice review Julian. IME bass is one of the last areas to fully bloom so with more burn in your bass impression WRT Sanyo KGSSHV may change?


 

 Good point. And my AMR DAC needs some more burn in as well as even though it is an ex-demo unit it hasn't seen many hours and has been stored unused for a year at least. TBH the sound I am getting right now is the best I have heard on a headphone system.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Confirmation that Stax is still where I hope to end up...


----------



## Pahani

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Confirmation that Stax is still where I hope to end up...


 
 I wholeheartedly recommend starting with the lower-end Stax first, while saving up for 009 
  
 For reference vs your HD600, which I also own......my baby Stax 2170 system sounds to me like a W-shaped HD600. More exciting, more precise, MUCH faster, more forward....but still quite capable on delicate or laid-back tracks.
  
 2 weaknesses of the 2170 system: fairly close soundstage (though the actual imaging within their space is great), and bass quantity is only perhaps a bit better than HD600.
  
 Go ahead, get your feet wet


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I understand that approach, but I also kind of don't want to bother until I can afford the flagship—or are you suggesting that lower-end stax outperform a well-driven HD800, HE-6, K1000...?


----------



## Pahani

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I understand that approach, but I also kind of don't want to bother until I can afford the flagship—or are you suggesting that lower-end stax outperform a well-driven HD800, HE-6, K1000...?


 
 Heh absolutely not, I don't have any experience with any TOTL headphones.You can probably tell from my sig that I'm working my way from the bottom up........and the Stax 2170 system stopped me in my tracks.
  
 I'm just saying you can have a reasonable taste of the Stax sound at a quite affordable price, while still setting your sights on TOTL.


----------



## potkettleblack

Sorry for the repost, but does anybody have info on the L300 yet?


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

astrostar59 said:


> *My KGSShv Carbon review*
> Maybe should be in the amp reviews section but may get overlooked in there?
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Great write up astrostar59.  
  
 How does your Carbon sound compared to BHSE's you have heard with the 009's.  ?


----------



## HemiSam

potkettleblack said:


> Sorry for the repost, but does anybody have info on the L300 yet?


 
  
 All I can offer are impressions from a short listen at a recent local meet.  Listened out of the baby amp 252s and out of my KGSSHV Carbon.  They're bright for my taste...way too much treble etch for me, but my hearing just doesn't appreciate that.  As a comparison, there were a pair of 404 Signatures that knocked the L300's out of the park....much better IMO, both out of an 006t (I believe it was with upgraded tubes) and the KGSSHV Carbon.
  
 I also did not find them comfortable at all. 
  
 I'd recommend an older pair of the right Lambda's before the L300's.  Or....I really like the SR-003MkII's as a great bang for the buck if you can get used to the ear tips.  They're thin so I only listen to them for 20-30 minutes at a time, but the sound sign is REALLY good for the money.  I was able to pick up a pair on eBay w/o having to purchase the amp.  Delivered promptly and clearly brand new and original.  Nice option if you don't want a headband on for a shorter listening session.
  
 Good luck.
  
 HS


----------



## astrostar59

bonesy jonesy said:


> Great write up astrostar59.
> 
> How does your Carbon sound compared to BHSE's you have heard with the 009's.  ?


 
 Bonesey PM sent.


----------



## astrostar59

potkettleblack said:


> Sorry for the repost, but does anybody have info on the L300 yet?


 
 See posts below as I have not heard the L300s yet. But I would recommend the old Lambda Nova Signatures as they are one of the best Lambdas made and have less of an aggressive treble with decent bass response. Or save for the 507s or new L700s.


----------



## 3X0

Based on loose recollection I'd also like to say the Carbon is roughly close to the BHSE.
  
 I wouldn't call it better though. I also disagree with the uncommon (but vocal) sentiment that the Carbon is at or near the league of the T2. The only area I'm hearing in favor of the Carbon is the lower noise floor.


----------



## LaCuffia

I get confused with the Signature series and the order of release. There also seems to be a few 404 series versions too. 

The 404 Limited Edition seems to be the best of the bunch but it's impossible to find. I know it was limited to 1000 units but not sure if higher production models even exceed a few thousand anyway. Stax is a really small operation and they don't pump out even hundreds a month.


----------



## astrostar59

3x0 said:


> Based on loose recollection I'd also like to say the Carbon is roughly close to the BHSE.
> 
> I wouldn't call it better though. I also disagree with the uncommon (but vocal) sentiment that the Carbon is at or near the league of the T2. The only area I'm hearing in favor of the Carbon is the lower noise floor.


 

 There are various builds of the Carbon with different power supplies. The later PS has CCS and extra LV boards. I have have no idea if that makes any difference, but some say it does.


----------



## HemiSam

The V5 and V6 board runs of the KGSSHV Carbon have very little difference per a post today on the other site.  The separate GR LV boards are an iteration.  I'd argue no more different flavors than any DIY amp design that's not been out all that long.
  
 IMO minor differences get over exaggerated on the forums.  Some folks must have puppy hearing.
  
  





  
 HS


----------



## JimL11

astrostar59 said:


> The biggest downside to me on the BHSE is the need to source expensive tubes, which may last maybe 12 months. Maybe a bit longer....


 
 Where in the world did you get that idea?  The EL34 tubes in the BHSE are run at 40% of maximum plate dissipation.  Now back in the 50s when all consumer electronics were tubed, power tubes were expected to last 2000-3000 hours, but this was running them at 65-80% of rated dissipation.  That's 2-3 years of listening 3 hours every day including weekends and holidays with no breaks, which is probably more than most people.  Run as conservatively as the BHSE I would expect them to last 5000 hours at a minimum, and perhaps as long as 10,000 hours, similar to the lifetime of conservatively run 12AX7s, 6SN7s or 6DJ8s, which is quite a few years of listening.


----------



## astrostar59

jiml11 said:


> Where in the world did you get that idea?


 
 Yes you may be correct. I didn't know the BHSE ran then well under heat dissipation.
  
 My assumption was based on my experience of NOS 300B tubes in my Speaker set up being SET mono blocks which lasted a year to 16 months on average with daily use. The WE 300B however had a 5 years guarantee but were super expensive so I couldn't afford those.


----------



## Spork67

nvm
 "Double amping"= bad.


----------



## JimL11

Um, not really.  The problem is that you posted about tube life in an amp [BHSE] with which you have no experience or knowledge of ITS tube life, based on experiences with other tube amps which are not relevant because tube power amps for speakers run their tubes much harder.  IIRC, spritzer, for example, has posted tubes last for many years in the BHSE.


----------



## astrostar59

jiml11 said:


> Um, not really.  The problem is that you posted about tube life in an amp [BHSE] with which you have no experience or knowledge of ITS tube life, based on experiences with other tube amps which are not relevant because tube power amps for speakers run their tubes much harder.  IIRC, spritzer, for example, has posted tubes last for many years in the BHSE.


 
 Fair enough.


----------



## AnakChan

I've cleaned up this thread again. Stop trolling on Astrostar59. At least he's sharing. And if you see a fault in his thoughts/opinion, _*politely*_ point it out to him.


----------



## juantendo8

PriceJapan is up again. The manager was hospitalized, which accounts for the complete communication cut off. Thanks to paradoxper for the tip-off. This is what was posted on the site:
  
  
  

2016-08-05
  We will resume our work from Aig 08
  

  
  Really sorry for long-day not-working, caused by rehospitalization.
  Not-shipped order will be shipped soon ( or be refunded if preferred by customer.)
  Sorry again for causing anxiety.
  
   2016.8.5
   Kaneda


----------



## astrostar59

juantendo8 said:


> PriceJapan is up again. The manager was hospitalized, which accounts for the complete communication cut off. Thanks to paradoxper for the tip-off. This is what was posted on the site:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That is good. I had great service from Kanada in 2015 with my 007A purchase, and would recommend them.
 On that subject I had the 007 MK2s Black UK 2013 and the current issue 007A Silvers Japan are superb. No idea what Stax have done (leave that for others to argue) but the ones I have now are MUCH better, i.e. no bass boat, more transparent, faster.


----------



## Spork67

I got home from work and there was a box on the doorstep.
 My 404's had arrived!
 I connected DAC to amp and HPs to amp and powered it up.
 Full of anticipation of my first electrostatic experience I got changed out of my work clothes, made a coffee and sat down to enjoy some tunes.
  
 The left channel had nothing but static. 
  
 I wiggled cables and connections but that didn't help.
 I unplugged from the "pro bias" outlet and tried the HPs in the "normal bias" socket. The static was gone, but there was no sound at all on the left side.
 I tried swapping the (brand new) RCA leads. I crossed leads between DAC and amp, just in case the L) out on the DAC was faulty. It didn't matter what I tried - the Left channel was either silence or static depending what bias output I connected to, but NO MUSIC.
 Bugga... (My actual words at the time may have been a little stronger)...
  
 So - given these "symptoms", what would the knowledgeable people here think was the problem? The amp or the headphones?


----------



## Arthrumus

Do you have a multimeter? If so, set the multimeter to measure AC voltage and test the voltage output of the left channel by connecting the negative lead of the meter to the chassis and inserting the positive lead to the top pin of one of the output jacks. Play some music or better yet a sine wave test tone and see if you get any voltage. If you do get voltage then check the right channel by inserting The positive lead into the middle right hand pin of the output jack and see if the voltages roughly match. If they don't then the amp is at fault. If they do then the headphones are at fault, and it's probably the bias wire to the left driver that's at fault.

Based on what you describe I'm leaning towards the amp being the culprit.


----------



## astrostar59

arthrumus said:


> Do you have a multimeter? If so, set the multimeter to measure AC voltage and test the voltage output of the left channel by connecting the negative lead of the meter to that chassis and inserting the positive lead to the top pin of one of the output jacks. Play some music or better yet a sine wave test tone and see if you get any voltage. If you do get voltage then check the right channel by inserting The positive lead into the middle right hand pin of the output jack and see if the voltages roughly match. If they don't then the amp is at fault. If they do then the headphones are at fault, and it's probably the bias wire to the left driver that's at fault.


 

 TAKE CARE 580v bias here. Refer to the drawing for the pin outs: Put a bit of tape over the Bias pin to be safe while you do those tests. It sounds to me the amp board has failed. After an hour or so of no power connected, take off the top and look inside for burn marks or bulging caps etc.
  

  
 It is possible the headphones have gone, but odd how you got that static? Makes me think it is the amp letting DC through.


----------



## rgs9200m

In the last couple of years with top of the line dynamics and magplanar headphones being introduced, there is the inevitable comment that it does what stats do best, but even better (meaning Stax, of course).
 But to me, there is still a certain something, a realism, a window in front of the sound that only disappears with Stax that still exists. Even with a medium level Stax system set up right, I detect this truth-in-sound quality that is unique.
 (I have not heard an Orpheus though, but I did have Sony R10s for years.)
 I do really enjoy my non-Stax headphones and certainly they can be glorious, but they cannot be mistaken for Stax as I hear things. So every time I hear about other headphones having electrostatic-like speed or whatever, I just can't take it seriously.
 So do others here agree?
 For the record, I like my SR007 Mk. 2.5 with my good old original KGSShv mini. And this is a relatively inexpensive system too, an added bonus. But the things it does right can't be duplicated as I hear it at any price I suspect in a non-Stax system,
 even if the other system excels in other areas.


----------



## LaCuffia

The problem for me now being into the Stax systems is that I just have a "meh" reaction to all other threads on the forum regarding dynamic and planar headphones.  I read all of the praise for new headphones and it's hard to get excited about it.   Maybe I am being too prejudicial and close-minded but I just feel that there will always be a certain veil over the sound when compared to Stax.


----------



## astrostar59

lacuffia said:


> The problem for me now being into the Stax systems is that I just have a "meh" reaction to all other threads on the forum regarding dynamic and planar headphones.  I read all of the praise for new headphones and it's hard to get excited about it.   Maybe I am being too prejudicial and close-minded but I just feel that there will always be a certain veil over the sound when compared to Stax.


 

 I think we are talking transient response and speed. Stax seem to be super fast making other types of phones seem sluggish. BUT I haven't heard the latest LCD's or the Abyss on a good amplifier  in a home demo, only at shows, so maybe things are closer now? The advantage of non Stax top tier phones is the bigger availability of amplifiers I guess. Having said that when you get into the KG designs you are going to get the best the 007 or 009 can deliver IMO. And TBH the HE1000 is not far from the 009s prices, Abyss  and LCD4 about the same.
  
 The Summit-Fi of headphones available has mushroomed in size, which has to be good for consumers?


----------



## rgs9200m

astrostar59 said:


> I think we are talking transient response and speed. Stax seem to be super fast making other types of phones seem sluggish. BUT I haven't heard the latest LCD's or the Abyss on a good amplifier  in a home demo, only at shows, so maybe things are closer now? The advantage of non Stax top tier phones is the bigger availability of amplifiers I guess. Having said that when you get into the KG designs you are going to get the best the 007 or 009 can deliver IMO. And TBH the HE1000 is not far from the 009s prices, Abyss  and LCD4 about the same.


 
 I had (or still have) these you mention. My point was (amidst some rambling I did) was that these others do not mimic the sound of a Stax, no matter how good they are otherwise. You must still have a Stax to get the Stax sound from my experience. Thank you astrostar for the good comprehensive reply, as always.


----------



## jibzilla

astrostar59 said:


> The Summit-Fi of headphones available has mushroomed in size, which has to be good for consumers?


 
  
 I say nope. I think beats and bose have watered people's ears down too much. It certainly is not any better than the 1990's imo.


----------



## purk

jibzilla said:


> I say nope. I think beats and bose have watered people's ears down too much. It certainly is not any better than the 1990's imo.


 
 This is very true actually.  The SR007 MKI is continued to be very highly regarded.  Same as the R10, Orpheus, and Qualia.  I hope that the Focal is as great as Tyll thinks of them.  I sure wish that he brought out his Stax gears for a shoot out rather than relied on his auditory memory.


----------



## TraneTime

lacuffia said:


> The problem for me now being into the Stax systems is that I just have a "meh" reaction to all other threads on the forum regarding dynamic and planar headphones.  I read all of the praise for new headphones and it's hard to get excited about it.   Maybe I am being too prejudicial and close-minded but I just feel that there will always be a certain veil over the sound when compared to Stax.


 
 I recently bought my first Stax, an L700 with a 006tS amp.  As good as it is, and it's the best I have, I don't plan to get rid of my other headphones.  I'm fortunate to have a number of good ones and they all have their virtues.  I'll still listen to and enjoy all of them.  What I like the most about our mutual obsession is that it's like an Italian gelato shop, so may different flavors. I think Stax is the best. But I'll still want to listen to something different, even if it's not as good.


----------



## LaCuffia

My plan is to pair up a L700 (when I am able to purchase) with the SRM-T1 that I currently have so I suppose it would be a set up similar to yours. I don't have an extensive headphone collection and wouldn't feel the need for one anyway if I get the L700. 

For what it's worth (not much) I still like listening to my flimsy Koss PortaPro though.


----------



## JimL11

purk said:


> The SR007 MKI is continued to be very highly regarded....


 
 I would like to reinforce this.  It seems like many people on this thread view the SR009 as the "ultimate" end game Stax headphones, but a significant minority feel the SR007 is the better choice.  For example, well known mastering engineer Bob Katz prefers the SR007 Mk II with port mod to the SR009e, regardless of price, because it is tonally more neutral - and he has the advantage of comparing the two using material he has mastered himself, something that most of us cannot do, so I take his opinions very seriously. See his comments on the Inner Fidelity website under Big Sound 2015.  
  
 Obviously, shooting for the SR007 as your end game headphones has a significant financial advantage over the SR009, and the money saved on the phones can buy a better amplifier for the same overall cost.


----------



## paradoxper

Or don't rely on another persons personal preference and listen to both and come to your own conclusion.


----------



## AnakChan

jiml11 said:


> I would like to reinforce this.  It seems like many people on this thread view the SR009 as the "ultimate" end game Stax headphones, but a significant minority feel the SR007 is the better choice.  For example, well known mastering engineer Bob Katz prefers the SR007 Mk II with port mod to the SR009e, regardless of price, because it is tonally more neutral - and he has the advantage of comparing the two using material he has mastered himself, something that most of us cannot do, so I take his opinions very seriously. See his comments on the Inner Fidelity website under Big Sound 2015.
> 
> Obviously, shooting for the SR007 as your end game headphones has a significant financial advantage over the SR009, and the money saved on the phones can buy a better amplifier for the same overall cost.


 
  
 That's funny, to me from this thread (and past Stax threads), I would have thought that most ppl here would consider the SR-007Mk1 to be the more popular and the SR-009 fans are the minority. Personally, I tend to listen to the SR-009 more and my SR-007Mk1 kept in storage but I never felt the SR-009 to be mainstream for hte audience here.
  
 Agreed with @paradoxper though, reviews are merely opinions which would give the audience an idea but not necessarily the answer.


----------



## JimL11

paradoxper said:


> Or don't rely on another persons personal preference and listen to both and come to your own conclusion.


 

 Absolutely.  It just seems, at least recently, that the SR007 has been relatively neglected - but maybe I'm over-reading things.


----------



## 3X0

And then there's the subfractional minority that don't care for either the SR-009 or SR-007 (any iteration) and prefer other electrostats.
  
 The SR-009's pricing may have something to do with its perceived superiority by the average layperson. It was known as a $4-5k headphone for quite some time and some might say the relatively prohibitive cost and consequent "exclusivity" add to the allure of electrostats in general.


----------



## jibzilla

purk said:


> This is very true actually.  The SR007 MKI is continued to be very highly regarded.  Same as the R10, Orpheus, and Qualia.  I hope that the Focal is as great as Tyll thinks of them.  I sure wish that he brought out his Stax gears for a shoot out rather than relied on his auditory memory.


 
  
 The Lcd-X and Mr.Speakers Ether are two exceptions but they still do not quite reach the hd800 and 007mk1.


----------



## potkettleblack

I've read a lot of impressions for the Utopia and I don't expect to like them more than the 007mk2. 

I appreciate Jude's recent review basically saying they're not world beaters at all. 

soundstage on par with the 600 and bass quantity of the hd800?

I'm cool thanks 

Tyll suddenly calling the e-stat treble fuzzy? Hilarious when you look at his 009 review.


----------



## mulveling

purk said:


> This is very true actually.  The SR007 MKI is continued to be very highly regarded.  Same as the R10, Orpheus, and Qualia.  I hope that the Focal is as great as Tyll thinks of them.  I sure wish that he brought out his Stax gears for a shoot out rather than relied on his auditory memory.


 
 But also of note -- you and I each have very nice 007 Mk I's that largely remain planted inside their flight cases, due to the 009 (and in your case, also the he90). In fact my 007 Mk I, in its box, currently serves as a nice platform for my 009 to reside on its Stax stand 
  
 In my perception there's a roughly 60/40 split* in favor of the 009 over 007 variants (* i.e. my guesstimate perception of the popularity of each model, based on comments by people in headphone forums, not my own listening time split, which is almost 100% towards the 009). BUT they're both very good, and both have their vehement proponents.


----------



## MacedonianHero

mulveling said:


> But also of note -- you and I each have very nice 007 Mk I's that largely remain planted inside their flight cases, due to the 009 (and in your case, also the he90). In fact my 007 Mk I, in its box, currently serves as a nice platform for my 009 to reside on its Stax stand
> 
> In my perception there's a roughly 60/40 split in favor of the 009 over 007 variants. BUT they're both very good, and both have their vehement proponents.


 
  
 I'm more of an 80/20 between my SR009s and 007Mk1 in favour of the 009s.


----------



## mulveling

macedonianhero said:


> I'm more of an 80/20 between my SR009s and 007Mk1 in favour of the 009s.


 
 Ah, I meant 60/40 in terms of what I perceive the popularity of these two models to be, by those who have heard both and commented on the various forums. In terms of my own listening time, it's more like 98 / 2, *heavily* in favor of the 009 (perhaps shifting slightly more in balance when I get a BHSE).


----------



## paradoxper

jiml11 said:


> Absolutely.  It just seems, at least recently, that the SR007 has been relatively neglected - but maybe I'm over-reading things.


 
 Perhaps. At the other place, that other big mouth person whom is worshipped sways all. Hated the 009, loved the 007 and now pushes the mk II recent stock - I guess?
  
 Here it has always seemed split with some slight favor to the 007.
  
 Which regardless, you like what you like, they like what they like, I like what I like.


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## nemomec

I prefer also the SR-009 to the other top e-stats, the SR-009 is the technical best e-stat compared to the others and not a beginners headphone. Big problem is you need a descent amp and source for SR-009, on the Stax amps they sound only good but not exceptional, on a bad (not natural) source horrible.
  
 I would personal rate the top models to:
  
 Stax SR-009 (real open window to the source with no colouration)
 Stax SR-Omega (awesone bass and resolution)
 Sennheiser HE-90 (awesone mids and timbre)
 Stax SR-007 MK1 (nice timbre, bass and mids)
 Sennheiser HE-60 (awesone mids)
 Stax SR-L700 Advanced Lambda (maybe 80-90% of the SR-009 performance)
 Stax SR-007 MK2 (nice timbre and mids)
  
 I had/have also some top dynamic and magnetostatic headphones but in my opinion they can´t compete with the top e-stats especially in terms of transparency, speed and highs. But i think the most people don´t like this "real" sound they comes from a e-stat and prefer the "coloured" sound of the most dynamic and magnetostatic headphones to compensate poor recordings and sources. I like also these headphones and take it as contrast to the e-stats.


----------



## arnaud

Time for a poll . I sit firmly in SR009 camp and I also strongly believe something is not up to spec in Tyll's rig in regards to stat stuff... There is no way the O2mk1 is more neutral than the SR009, subjectively or objectively speaking. 

It often boils down to listening level and upstream gear / source material in regards to the preference for 009 or O2 because the former has significantly more midrange presence where most people are most sensitive to.

I value quality midrange and flatness over extension with dips and peaks. I value clean and quick transients over impact and hate splashy / projected sounds. I value depth and placement / separation over sheer headstage size. So, it seems I am in the end more a stat guy than anything else. Curious about the Focal phones still but not really holding my breath.

There is no question however that a world with just stax phones would be very boring for most. Some like, need or benefit from the constant downpouring of new headphones to take the place of last months shiny toy and there's always hope for truly breathrough products .

Cheers,
Arnaud


----------



## purk

I didn't mean to start this debate.  In any event, I actually prefer the SR009 over the SR007 but I also can't help but really appreciate the SR007 MKI when properly driven out of the BHSE, Carbon, or the DIY T2.  I am just glad that I have an option to choose between the two.  Like many who prefers the SR009 over the SR007, I do feel that the SR009 to be more transparent as well as having better resolution than the SR007.  Out of the my T2 and the BHSE (now Mulveling's) as well as the Carbon, the SR009's treble has never bother me.


----------



## TheAttorney

Agree with the last 3 posts, other than I differ slightly from purk in that, having got used to the 009s, I see no point in going back to my 007 Mk1's - they sound nicely "comfortable" for the first few seconds (like slippers for ears!), but then I notice the (relative) colourations and the reduced clarity and transparency and I soon get bored.
  
 The 009s are the most neutral headphones I've heard, and ones most likely to give me a "You are there!" experience. But as I've stated before, they're not quite perfect. If they had just an overall _slight_ tonal tilt in favour of the bass, then tonally they would be perfect for me.
  
 When you have such a detailed and transparent headphone, that also is _slightly _tonally forward, then there's often a fine line between "You are there!" and "In yer face!". And small details in the quality of upstream components can cause the 009's to cross that line. But if all planets are in alignment, then I think the 009's handle bright recordings better than my 007 Mk1 - because the 009's can better separate the core music from the noise and hash.
  
 Being a die hard audiophile, I'll not stop looking for something better. Now that I have an integrated headphone amp in mu DAVE DAC, it makes sense to revisit the Dynamics. So next on my list to try are the HEK V2, and inevitably now the Focal Utopia, and I may as well try the LCD4's while I'm at it.. All of these should be available in the same dealer to try in about a month's time. The Abyss is already discounted - the best sounding dynamics I've heard so far, but so ugly!


----------



## astrostar59

nemomec said:


> I would personal rate the top models to:
> 
> Stax SR-009 (real open window to the source with no colouration)
> Stax SR-Omega (awesone bass and resolution)
> ...


 
 I wonder if I can add the 007A in here as above (in bold text). I heard the 007MK1 last week out of the Carbon and then the same track on my own 007A 2015 model and they sounded *very* alike. I wonder wether my 007A sounded a bit more transparent and a bit faster as well. I would need a longer demo to know for sure, but it was real close. If this is proven by others, then it may make sense now to buy the current 007A as they are looking a really good buy TBH. I fell out with my previous 007 MK2.5s (black) so I am not a blind 007 follower.
  
 Never heard the SR-Omega but fascinating to see you rate that above the 007s.
 I agree re 009, superb headphone but does need a great source. I went for a warmer sounding DAC with enough detail. I can imagine a detail freak DAC may not gel so well on the 009s regardless of the amp used?


----------



## astrostar59

arnaud said:


> Time for a poll . I sit firmly in SR009 camp and I also strongly believe something is not up to spec in Tyll's rig in regards to stat stuff... There is no way the O2mk1 is more neutral than the SR009, subjectively or objectively speaking.


 
 Arnaud, didn't Tyll use a Stax amp for those demos? If he did he needs to do another comparison with a BHSE or Carbon.


----------



## arnaud

AFAIK, a kgss with adjustable bias voltage (hopefully properly set).


----------



## JimL11

Haven't heard the 009 but very happy with my 007 Mk II with port mod.  Could live with the Mk I (which I owned) but it sounds a bit soft to me, whereas the Mk II sounds neutral.  This is out of my SRX Plus.  A friend of mine, who I swapped my Mk I to, said the Mk I is the phone for him when he just wants to kick back and relax.  Acording to Tyll, the MkII with port mod splits the difference tonally between the Mk I and 009.


----------



## nemomec

astrostar59 said:


> nemomec said:
> 
> 
> > I would personal rate the top models to:
> ...


 

 The SR-007 has in my experience very different versions. I prefer the early version with SN 70xxx, they are closer to SR Omega and more transparent with a nice timbre and balanced signature. From SN 71xxx to SZ1-xxxx you have a range of very good sounding pieces and very slow not so good sounding pieces. The SR-007 MK2/A with serial SZ2-xxxx are constant and sounds good with not so good bass impact like MK1 versions. The newer models beginning with SN SZ3-xxxx sounds to dark and not so balanced to me, but I don´t know how the actual SR-007 MK2/A sounds.


----------



## astrostar59

arnaud said:


> AFAIK, a kgss with adjustable bias voltage (hopefully properly set).


 

 Yes, it may have been that Spritzer special! Interesting, as that would be a good amp obviously.
 I read it and didn't agree with his list, though I haven't heard many of the hall of fame Planars properly yet. I have chatted with many Abyss and LCD guys who have joined the Stax gang mind.
  
 I think the best way is take an overview of the write ups and users who have owned some of the other HPs as well as the 009s. The consensus still seems to be in the Stax camp for top tier.
 And the bass element that some complain about in the 009, I don't get that, it kicks as hard as you want when well amped IMO.
  
 Interesting to read some reviews on the HE1000 system with that insane Shangri-la 300B amp. That may rock the boat? I have a soft spot for the sound of 300Bs. I can imagine they would work well in a detailed headphones system. Anyone know when it is out? Sorry, cancel all that, I just realised it is TBC the price and aimed in the HE-1 territory. Oh well, nice idea while that lasted. Hey the 009s and a BHSE or Carbon is so damb cheap to buy right now !!!! (compared to that system anyway).


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Spritzer and Kevin said that 300B tubes are the worst possible for an electrostatic headphone amp.
 I can understand that some people can't stand that two, but they know a thing or two about what they're talking.


----------



## astrostar59

nemomec said:


> but I don´t know how the actual SR-007 MK2/A sounds.


 
 I really dig the current 007A. I was shocked and surprised by it. I had sold my 007MK2.5 and then bought the 007A silver version in 2014 from PJ. Not expecting that much it sounded closer to my 009s than the old 007s. Transparent and fast with a solid bass, less bass bloat. If I didn't have the 009s I could live with this version and not think I am missing much. 
  
 Yes the soundstage is wider on the 009, they are faster, bass has more detail and texture, but it is not night and day anymore. I also like the look of the 007As, they are a bit James Bond 1970's style, metal and solid. But they do need a stonkingly powerful amp to do this. They are really greedy with juice so need a big kick up the butt to get going. Out of a decent amp they will make many people happy and they ARE still IMO more forgiving of a brighter sounding front end.
  
 So anyone wanting a top Stax sound but can't manage the cost of the 009s can get the 007As IMO (if they already have a powerful amp) and forget about the gear, enjoy the music.


----------



## 3X0

I found the SR-Omega to scale the best out of the T2 over the Carbon vs. the SR-009 followed by the HE90. Unfortunately I did not own the SR-007 or BHSE at the time to be able to compare nor any entry-level amps.

I prefer the Omega (slightly less forward, better resolution, much more air, astonishingly complete bass from depth to texture to weight) by a rather large margin. The 009 may be preferable for classical but the I feel Omega is nearly impossible to beat for acoustic, vocal and live recordings.

I hear the 009 as having a relative disadvantage in depth into the sub-bass and bass weight. I also find the upper midrange to be a little bothersome at times in terms of emphasis and tone. It does have a sense of clarity and more precise imaging within the tighter presentation, but I heard this as being more "hi-fi" than I care for.


----------



## astrostar59

torofiestasol said:


> Spritzer and Kevin said that 300B tubes are the worst possible for an electrostatic headphone amp.
> I can understand that some people can't stand that two, but they know a thing or two about what they're talking.


 

 Interesting, I didn't know that? Wonder why? I was thinking along the lines of the sound of the 300B v EL34s in a standard power amp so probably not relevant in a Stat amp then.


----------



## 3X0

300B isn't really suited for high-voltage applications AFAIK.


----------



## LaCuffia

If I have a SRM-T1 and don't plan on upgrading the driver anytime soon since it's in good condition and am happy with it, what would be the better option in terms of performance - a L700 for around $1,400 or the SR-007a for $1,800 or so?    Just bearing in mind that my only Stax experience so far is with the 2170 system, and a SR-5 (that I used with a SRD-7 but now with the SRM-T1).  I know there are much better drivers out there, especially for the 007, but simply looking into whether it's worth the extra $400 to $500 to go above the L700.  I like a neutral sound, but probably a tad warm, with a full bass.   The most important factor on par with sound, however, comfort and weight.  How do the two compare in that respect?


----------



## astrostar59

The 007 is notorious for needing a powerful amp so IMO you would be better with the L700.
  
 If you intend going further later then the 007A is a great HP IMO with real world bass but would need a better amp to get the best out of it.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Do you have your 007A with the port mod? Difference is tremendous.


----------



## TraneTime

potkettleblack said:


> I've read a lot of impressions for the Utopia and I don't expect to like them more than the 007mk2.
> 
> I appreciate Jude's recent review basically saying they're not world beaters at all.
> 
> ...


 
 Tyll, in his video review of the Utopia, says that he has never recommended buying a high end hp, no matter how good it is.  Now he is recommending dropping 4 grand for the Utopia!  I've no doubt that he's sincere, but he also says that the Utopia is what headphones will sound like over the next 10 years.  Ok, I'll wait for that day when a $400 hp comes out that sounds as good or better than the Utopia.  Ps.  I heard the Utopia last month.  I didn't think it was that good.  It didn't beat my L700.


----------



## LaCuffia

So is the 007a supposed to be the newest version?   Is that supposed to be only available as a Japanese import?
  
 The different versions of the 007 is confusing


----------



## nemomec

lacuffia said:


> So is the 007a supposed to be the newest version?   Is that supposed to be only available as a Japanese import?
> 
> The different versions of the 007 is confusing




Take the SR-L700 with your SRM-T1. I think this combo has best performance compared to the other setups in this price range up to $3000.


----------



## Arthrumus

The newest revision is being sold as the 007A but not all 007As are the newest revision. As far as I can tell the only sure fire way to get the newest and by all accounts best 007 is to import one brand new from Japan. Yes the 007 is confusing, mostly because STAX doesn't like to acknowledge or indicate running production changes to their products.


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## LaCuffia

nemomec said:


> Take the SR-L700 with your SRM-T1. I think this combo has best performance compared to the other setups in this price range up to $3000.


 

 Thanks....that's what I thought.  From what I've read, the Lamda series seems to be a good pairing with the tube driver units. 
  
 The pad design is new and different than prior generation Lambdas.  My only complaint with the 2170 was the imperfect seal and comfort could have been better.   I am hoping the L700 is an improvement in both areas.


----------



## zolkis

lacuffia said:


> I am hoping the L700 is an improvement in both areas.




It is.


----------



## mtoc

Does the SRM-727 which bypasses the internal pot plus a scary priced high-end speaker preamp combo really outperform the BHSE completely?


----------



## arnaud

Man, you're on a roll lately mtoc


----------



## rgs9200m

Is there any info on the SR007 port mod and is it complicated or risky? And what are the sonic benefits? Does it calm the upper mids a bit if digital glare is in the system? Thanks.


----------



## Jones Bob

rgs9200m said:


> Is there any info on the SR007 port mod and is it complicated or risky? And what are the sonic benefits? Does it calm the upper mids a bit if digital glare is in the system? Thanks.




Google "SR-007 port mod Spritzer". It will spit out a link to the exact thread on That Other Site That Must Not Be Named.


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## rgs9200m

Thanks for the info. It looks too difficult for me; I'm too clumsy to risk breaking my expensive phones. I'm still not sure what the sonic improvement would be. All I would ask for is a little less upper midrange energy that happens when a recording seems to have glare in vocals.
 But overall in a good amount of my music the SR007 mk 2.5 is just fine.
 I tried a little experiment and put a small square of tape on the outside of each earcup and for some reason it sounds nice. I'm debating whether to keep this on all the time. It calms the upper mids / lower treble.
 Thanks.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Bump
  


jude said:


> No, the HE-1 Orpheus would still get the clear nod. As I said in the CanJam London video, I feel the Utopia's overall performance is matched only by a few top-performing planar magnetic headphones, and exceeded only by the very best electrostatic headphones in the world. The new Orpheus is, in my opinion, perhaps without peer right now (and I still haven't had a chance to try the HE-1 Orpheus with the Chord DAVE yet).
> 
> My Stax SR-009 and Stax SR-007 Mk1 with the Frank Cooter Custom 845 Electrostatic Amp are still, in my opinion, the better sounding, more resolving headphones (versus either the Utopia or Elear). Of course, at that point, we are talking about an electrostatic system that would be priced _significantly_ higher than even the Utopia, and it's also a system that was shipped on a pallet, because it's so large--so you can't really use it anywhere other than where it is (at my office).
> 
> Especially with the SR-007 Mk1 (which I've been using more and more lately), the bass is more present than with the Utopia, and the treble smoother and more refined, and, overall, more resolving. Both the SR-009 and SR-007 Mk1 play with beautiful body and drive through the Cooter--more than any other amp I've yet heard with them.


 
  





  
 Ali


----------



## astrostar59

mtoc said:


> Does the SRM-727 which bypasses the internal pot plus a scary priced high-end speaker preamp combo really outperform the BHSE completely?


 
 Oh my....


----------



## Spork67

astrostar59 said:


> TAKE CARE 580v bias here. Refer to the drawing for the pin outs: Put a bit of tape over the Bias pin to be safe while you do those tests. It sounds to me the amp board has failed. After an hour or so of no power connected, take off the top and look inside for burn marks or bulging caps etc.
> 
> 
> 
> It is possible the headphones have gone, but odd how you got that static? Makes me think it is the amp letting DC through.


 
  
 Got to town and picked up a multimeter today.
 Following the advice you guys have kindly given, I get a reading on the R+ and R- pins, but not a thing on either of the L channel ones.
 Guess that confirms it's the amp.
 Thanks again for the help.


----------



## astrostar59

rgs9200m said:


> Thanks for the info. It looks too difficult for me; I'm too clumsy to risk breaking my expensive phones. I'm still not sure what the sonic improvement would be. All I would ask for is a little less upper midrange energy that happens when a recording seems to have glare in vocals.
> But overall in a good amount of my music the SR007 mk 2.5 is just fine.
> I tried a little experiment and put a small square of tape on the outside of each earcup and for some reason it sounds nice. I'm debating whether to keep this on all the time. It calms the upper mids / lower treble.
> Thanks.


 

 No, it won't do anything for the mid / upper ranges. The port mod from what I have read addresses the bass bloat in the lower ranges. The mod is basically taking off the leather cups (easy) and plugging the port hole with blue tac) (easy) the putting the cups back on (which I found tricky on my MK2.5s).
  
 Maybe look at your source as the 007 (any version) is not renowned for mid / treble glare TBH. What DAC and amp are you using?


----------



## yates7592

Is the SRD-P any good? As it can work on 8 x C batteries I'm thinking of one for SR009 as a back-up amp in power cuts, or maybe even travelling.


----------



## rgs9200m

Interesting, because my SR007's bass is to die for: tight, detailed, controlled, non-smeared as anything. It's amazing when I hear a bass drum through it, with a tactile sense of each pound. My source is on the ruthlessly revealing side however,
 and it will relay every aspect of the recording (I can hear things change a lot from one recording to the next, even different pressings). It's an EMM XDS1-v2 cdp/dac.
 I kind of live on the edge with the EMM, I know. Thanks again for the help.


----------



## purk

mtoc said:


> Does the SRM-727 which bypasses the internal pot plus a scary priced high-end speaker preamp combo really outperform the BHSE completely?



 


Probably still as bad as ever. The 727 unmodified just never sound right - bloat and diffused.


----------



## Tinkerer

purk said:


> mtoc said:
> 
> 
> > Does the SRM-727 which bypasses the internal pot plus a scary priced high-end speaker preamp combo really outperform the BHSE completely?
> ...


 
  
 Even modified, the 727 gets destroyed by stuff like the KGSSHV, much less the BHSE. Plus anybody can build a similar volume pot bypass switch into any design or just omit the pot completely if they want.


----------



## astrostar59

When I had the SRM-717 I did try it for a while with a good pre-amp in front of it (Audio Note M3 tubed unit) and then direct from my Server. Thing is is you have 2V and the standard output impedance of line out there is NO point in adding a pre-amp to the front of any of the Stax amps IMO. They are designed to run off a line out from a CD plater or DAC, and not input more current. A pre-amp can output 30v depending on the design so way over the specs of any Stax amps input and may damage the amp if you feed it too much.
  
 I also tried using volume bypass on the 717 and operating digital volume in Audirvana+ but it kills the sound as in digital in that application lower the output = less resolution.
  
 You could try a passive and miss out the amps pot but then that will add more interconnects and move the pot further away from the amp circuit so may not help. Make more sense to fit a better pot to the Stax amp.
  
 It is physically impossible to get more out a set Stax amp design without changing the amp insides (mods). So if the sound is not to your liking, and assuming the HPs or source are ok to you, then you need to change your amp.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## bmichels

Still No news about this neat Stax SRM212 DAC/AMP ? 

Has anyone seen It since the proto was shown at CES 2016 In February ? ( first apparence at CES... 2014 ! )


----------



## Tinkerer

I've always wondered, how much does a good buffered VU meter affect sound in an amp like that? I've been thinking about putting one for each channel in my circlotron build.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

astrostar59 said:


> No, it won't do anything for the mid / upper ranges. The port mod from what I have read addresses the bass bloat in the lower ranges. The mod is basically taking off the leather cups (easy) and plugging the port hole with blue tac) (easy) the putting the cups back on (which I found tricky on my MK2.5s).
> 
> Maybe look at your source as the 007 (any version) is not renowned for mid / treble glare TBH. What DAC and amp are you using?


 
  
 Can the port mod be done with MK2.5? I thought I read somewhere that it was only for the MK2's. If so, I may give it a shot as I have found the bass to be bloated off the WES and 323s, but not the carbon. Thanks in advance.


----------



## astrostar59

boynamedsue said:


> Can the port mod be done with MK2.5? I thought I read somewhere that it was only for the MK2's. If so, I may give it a shot as I have found the bass to be bloated off the WES and 323s, but not the carbon. Thanks in advance.


 

 The port mod can be applied to any MK2 to current as far as I am aware. I have the 007A 2014 and don't fell the need for the port mod, whereas with my 2.5 Black units I was never happy with the bass control (but I didn't mod them).
  
 TBH you are never going to get great control of the 007s drivers with a WES or 323. The WES has history (dig around to find out). I had the 717 and it was ok but still didn't control the 007s very well (ran out of dynamics and bass control). Yes the Carbon, but more money.... I am not convinced the 2.5s can ever sound 'right' IMO. Mine didn't  and were too veiled and slow, too tubby in the bass, very un Stax. The current 007A however is a different story and as good (maybe bit more alive) than the 007 MK1. All in my listening test, ImO and others may / will disagree! Hard hat put on running away now as I speak....


----------



## Michgelsen

astrostar59 said:


> A pre-amp can output 30v depending on the design so way over the specs of any Stax amps input and may damage the amp if you feed it too much.


 
  
 The common Stax amps have a rated maximum input level of 30V.


----------



## astrostar59

michgelsen said:


> The common Stax amps have a rated maximum input level of 30V.


 

 Yes you are correct, missed that. If you look at the SRM1 manual it says connect to the record out on the preamplifier which is a pass through, no gain stage from the pre-amplifier.
  
 Having a pre-amplifier stage in the chain where a standard 2v line out can drive the Stax amplifier without doesn't make sense to me. That extra gain stage will only reduce the quality of the sound by adding yet more components in the way. You are amplify thing signal to then reduce it back down again.
  
 I did try both options, and aside from some tube warmth, the addition of a pre-amplifier reduced the speed and detail of the direct from source route.


----------



## bmichels

What Is the best ( commercial or DIY) *transportable AMP for a SR009. *( battery operated will be even better so that I can use It In my garden  ?

I can't carry my BHSE every week-end to my country villa and me and my dogs would like to improve on my curent transportable battery operated audio system...


----------



## purk

bmichels said:


> What Is the best ( commercial or DIY) *transportable AMP for a SR009. *( battery operated will be even better so that I can use It In my garden  ?
> 
> I can't carry my BHSE every week-end to my country villa and me and my dogs would like to improve on my curent transportable battery operated audio system...


 
 Get the SRM-323S and one of this baby
  
 https://www.amazon.com/MixMart-24000mAh-Laptops-Tablets-Smartphones/dp/B01HEPTD9W/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1471079604&sr=8-2&keywords=portable+110+power+supply


----------



## Mp0wer

Does anyone know if the SRM-252s driver unit can be by-passed, I want to get the SRS-3100 and want to use a different HP amp or am I stuck using Stax included amp.


----------



## astrostar59

mp0wer said:


> Does anyone know if the SRM-252s driver unit can be by-passed, I want to get the SRS-3100 and want to use a different HP amp or am I stuck using Stax included amp.


 

 Do you mean, can you buy the SR-L300 on it's own. You can. But you will need an electrostatic amp of some sort to power those (electrostatic) headphones.


----------



## Mp0wer

astrostar59 said:


> Do you mean, can you buy the SR-L300 on it's own. You can. But you will need an electrostatic amp of some sort to power those (electrostatic) headphones.




yes that answers my question, I didn't know you have to use a electrostatic amp..Thanks


----------



## Quixote79

you does not need a electrostatic amp if you use a transformer box
 some says it also sounds true good


----------



## JimL11

lacuffia said:


> If I have a SRM-T1 and don't plan on upgrading the driver anytime soon since it's in good condition and am happy with it, what would be the better option in terms of performance - a L700 for around $1,400 or the SR-007a for $1,800 or so?    Just bearing in mind that my only Stax experience so far is with the 2170 system, and a SR-5 (that I used with a SRD-7 but now with the SRM-T1).  I know there are much better drivers out there, especially for the 007, but simply looking into whether it's worth the extra $400 to $500 to go above the L700.  I like a neutral sound, but probably a tad warm, with a full bass.   The most important factor on par with sound, however, comfort and weight.  How do the two compare in that respect?


 

 Actually, it depends on some degree on how loud you listen.  I have a friend who has a modified SRM-T1 - mostly improved wiring, and input sockets, new PS caps and Goldpoint attenuator, although he may have done some other things, and it sounds pretty good driving his SR007 Mk I.  Not as good as my SRX Plus (we compared the two), but not too shabby.  Now, if you crank it up, the difference gets bigger the louder you play it - the T1 will poop out much sooner due to its output stage.
  
 People say the SR007 is "hard to drive."  The truth is, there isn't much difference electrically between the SR007 and, say, the SR009.  In fact, Stax specifies the SR007 impedance at 170 kilohms at 10 kHz, vs 145 kilohms for the 009 (and the L700, for that matter) at the same frequency, so electrically the 009 is a bit harder to drive (lower impedance).  However, the SR007 has a few dB less output in the 2-4 kHz region than the SR009 (take a look at Tyll's measurements on the InnerFidelity website).  The result is that for the same music input, the 007 sounds less loud than the 009, so to get the same subjective loudness you have to crank up the volume, which stresses the amp more - remember a 3 dB change in volume, which isn't that much, requires double the power.  Doubling the loudness requires roughly 10-fold the power.  So really, the only way to know whether  the 007 will work for you is to try it with your amplifier.


----------



## LaCuffia

Thanks for your comments. To put things in perspective the dial on the T1 is numbered to 10 and I listen at 3 and it is plenty loud for me. I know volume is just one factor in evaluating the effectiveness of a driver but I don't think there would be any problem getting a 007 loud enough.


----------



## Tinkerer

jiml11 said:


> Actually, it depends on some degree on how loud you listen.  I have a friend who has a modified SRM-T1 - mostly improved wiring, and input sockets, new PS caps and Goldpoint attenuator, although he may have done some other things, and it sounds pretty good driving his SR007 Mk I.  Not as good as my SRX Plus (we compared the two), but not too shabby.  Now, if you crank it up, the difference gets bigger the louder you play it - the T1 will poop out much sooner due to its output stage.
> 
> People say the SR007 is "hard to drive."  The truth is, there isn't much difference electrically between the SR007 and, say, the SR009.  In fact, Stax specifies the SR007 impedance at 170 kilohms at 10 kHz, vs 145 kilohms for the 009 (and the L700, for that matter) at the same frequency, so electrically the 009 is a bit harder to drive (lower impedance).  However, the SR007 has a few dB less output in the 2-4 kHz region than the SR009 (take a look at Tyll's measurements on the InnerFidelity website).  The result is that for the same music input, the 007 sounds less loud than the 009, so to get the same subjective loudness you have to crank up the volume, which stresses the amp more - remember a 3 dB change in volume, which isn't that much, requires double the power.  Doubling the loudness requires roughly 10-fold the power.  So really, the only way to know whether  the 007 will work for you is to try it with your amplifier.


 
  
 IIRC the reason people say the SR-007 is hard to drive is that it needs a very good, very linear power supply to get the upper freqs to behave properly. I do know one of the main differences between the SRM-727 mod, SRA-12S mod, and the KGSSHV I had was the treble. Stuff like the old SRA never had any problems delivering the bass, but the STAX brand amps definitely sounded darker on the whole.
  
 If the original reason I remember is true, it's mainly down to the PSU. Which I guess goes back to how people used to say the output stages of the original KGSS and the 717 are pretty similar. But the KGSS has the regulated power supply.


----------



## astrostar59

lacuffia said:


> Thanks for your comments. To put things in perspective the dial on the T1 is numbered to 10 and I listen at 3 and it is plenty loud for me. I know volume is just one factor in evaluating the effectiveness of a driver but I don't think there would be any problem getting a 007 loud enough.


 

 It depends on the line level you put into the amp as well. Some pre-amps pump out max 30v so the Stax amp will be overdriven if you go beyond say 12'oclock maybe less.
  
 When I had the SRM-717 with my 007s MK2.5s it was ok at normal levels, but the sound balance changed as you pump up the volume on dance and full range music. The bass drops away and gets loose, the treble harsh and mids forward. I understood that as running out of current. If something else fair enough, but what I heard made me want to search for another amp.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

bmichels said:


> What Is the best ( commercial or DIY) *transportable AMP for a SR009. *( battery operated will be even better so that I can use It In my garden  ?
> 
> I can't carry my BHSE every week-end to my country villa and me and my dogs would like to improve on my curent transportable battery operated audio system...


 
 Just get another BHSE


----------



## mulveling

*Bro, do you even BHSE?*  
 Purk and I have both waffled a lot about the sale of his BHSE to me, and lo -- it finally happened. I'm going to have a LOT of fun getting familiar with this amp over the next several weeks. Consistent with my prior impressions, this is NOT a warm amp -- and the resulting sound is _not_ going to be for everyone, when paired with 009 or L700. But for me that's OK because the sound of this amp is still exceedingly natural and tonally dense (beautiful midrange that I can't seem to find replicated in any SS amps). Treble quality is astounding, though to be fair there is a *lot* of energy there (call it sparkle, or ping, or what have you). Certain details and instruments are leaping out of the Stax headphones like never before. And there's gobs of impact down low  (I didn't know the L700 had that much wallop in them). The BHSE sounds more dynamic and lifelike than my other amps -- almost shocking in its realism. Tons of "wow" factor. Soundstage is exactly to my preference -- large but not too large (I don't care too much for that anyways, e.g. R10 which is also weak in bass/impact/dynamics, or HD800 which is bad in everything but soundstage size), but with awesome 3D/holographic placement and depth.
  
 This is the best I've ever heard the L700 (note: I have't tried the L700 out of Purk's DIY T2) -- amazing dynamics/impact, and the maximum detail you're going to get out of those headphones. But again, there will be too much top-end energy in that pairing for some. The 009 are of course, even better than the L700 in every way. And though I still prefer the 009/BHSE over 007/BHSE, the 007 Mk I is an absolutely classic pairing here. The 007 w/ BHSE presents a sonic balance that will have universal appeal -- I'd be shocked (and quite honestly offended) if anyone didn't absolutely love this pairing. The warmth of the 007 Mk I is perfectly matched by the BHSE, which is really a credit to Justin's design skill, as that was the best Stax headphone available at the time of BHSE's prototyping. 
  
 I do most of my critical listening at fairly loud levels (probably what some of you would consider VERY loud), and this likely accounts for some of why the BHSE sounds so much more detailed and uncompressed compared to lesser amps. I also don't listen to traditional "old audiophile" fare. Lots of hard rock and metal. 
  
 I'm running Holland/Amperex brown-base EL34; xf5 types -- just got my own quad in and biased up nice, so Purk can now have his set back 
 I haven't done any tube rolling in the BHSE yet, but went through lots of EL34 variants several years back with speaker amps -- and from that experience, I'm not even going to bother with the Russian variants. Most Russians sounded bright as hell and generally had various issues in the treble. Not a big fan of playing the "when will this tube blow up my amp" game, so Chinese and JJ tubes are absolutely out of the question (for that matter Russian tubes aren't confidence inspiring either, as I had an Electro-Harmonix KT90 short out and scorch the circuit board in my Rogue Apollo monobloc). Vintage Amperex and Mullard tubes, even with visibly scorched plates and burned-off getters, seem to just keep going. 
  
 Source is a Yggy though the spdif input -- good pairing. The BHSE seemed a bit brighter through the NAD M51, back when I heard that pairing; a bit too much. Someday I need to pull over my TT setup, since that should be beyond even the Yggy (Clearaudio Innovation w/ Koetsu Platinum; currently hooked up to big Tannoy Canterbury speakers). I love Koetsu cartridges _almost_ as much as I love Stax headphones. It almost seems taboo to put the two together; that might be just too much sonic pleasure for me to handle.
  
 Early indications are that this will easily be my favored amp. But again, some folks will wish for a warmer pairing with the 009 or L700. To recap, here are the other amps I've got around (it's long past time to cull the herd):

KGSShv Carbon - Golden Ref HV, but not LV supply. Great all-rounder, and what I consider quite neutral, but the tone isn't quite as natural and sweet as with a great tube amp. 
DIY hev90-balanced - With Mazda tubes (chrome plate 12ax7), it sounds like what I wish the KGST had sounded like. Perfect amount of warmth for 009 and L700. Not as good technically as the Carbon, but maybe close enough given its strengths. 
KGSShv 500V IXYS - A great general-purpose KGSShv, but of course it falls notably short of the Carbon.
KGSShv 450V Sanyo - Warm, very warm. This is as warm as you are ever going to hear the 009.
KGST - Basic KGST build with no frills; good pairing with L700. Also very good with the 009, though that headphone deserves a much better amp. 
  
 And as everyone should know by now, this amp is stunningly beautiful in person. A lot of gear gets high accolades for build quality, but very few items genuinely deserve it. The BHSE is special. The BHSE makes everything other than my Tannoy speakers and turntable look low-class, and upon close inspection, even those two fail miserably against the BHSE's impeccable build standards. I can't believe that Justin is able to sell these for what he does. In the traditional hi-fi world, manufacturers (*cough*, e.g. VAC) would markup the price of the RK50 pot alone to an amount in excess of the entire BHSE amp.
  
 Final note -- I believe that a proper DIY T2 build beats all. It's impossible to beat that. And it's warmer sounding than the BHSE, too. But good luck landing one of those (I probably never will). I'm also aware that I'm not helping my cause by continually posting how amazing it is, without already having one myself. But at least the BHSE is far prettier


----------



## JimL11

tinkerer said:


> IIRC the reason people say the SR-007 is hard to drive is that it needs a very good, very linear power supply to get the upper freqs to behave properly. I do know one of the main differences between the SRM-727 mod, SRA-12S mod, and the KGSSHV I had was the treble. Stuff like the old SRA never had any problems delivering the bass, but the STAX brand amps definitely sounded darker on the whole.
> 
> If the original reason I remember is true, it's mainly down to the PSU. Which I guess goes back to how people used to say the output stages of the original KGSS and the 717 are pretty similar. But the KGSS has the regulated power supply.


 

 Well, again, when you turn up the volume, it stresses the power supply more, so everything is more prone to misbehave.  With an unregulated supply, there is more intermodulation of the bass with everything else, and it's worse the more you crank it.  A regulated PS is ALWAYS beneficial, and the louder you play the bigger the difference.  The reason the 007 seems harder to drive is that you have to turn up the volume about 3-4 dB to achieve the same subjective level, so in that sense it is "harder" to drive than other Staxen.  Then in addition, in all the Stax tube amps, the output stages use resistor loads so the majority of the signal current goes to driving the output resistors and the headphones are left with the scraps.


----------



## jjacq

What KG amp would be a reasonable buy for the L700? Would the KGSSHV be a good match for it? The DAC is a gumby.


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## mulveling

jjacq said:


> What KG amp would be a reasonable buy for the L700? Would the KGSSHV be a good match for it? The DAC is a gumby.


 
 Maybe with a warm 450v Sanyo KGSShv -- I actually haven't tried that pairing, though I have both. An L700 isn't going to be most optimal match with most KGSShv's in my opinion; I'd actually prefer a KGST there -- and I generally prefer KGSShv over KGST for the 007 and 009 (I feel that the KGSShv is a better amp than my KGST, overall). It's not like the L700 sounds bad through a KGSShv, though. Gumby should be a good choice; it's reported to be a bit warmer than Yggy, which should help you.


----------



## bmichels

I HAVE MY BHSE  at home ))))  I just brout it back from CanJam.  It is the Black unit that HeadAmp was using for the demo this WK in London...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 
  
  
  
 I also spoke with Dan from Mr Speaker who also own a BHSE that he uses to develop his next Electrostatic headphone that may ship early 2017.  
  
 He suggested I try the *Siemens EL34* that he personally use in his BHSE to get a softer high.  dos someone know and experienced those Siemens tubes ?


----------



## mulveling

bmichels said:


> I HAVE MY BHSE  at home ))))  I just brout it back from CanJam.  It is the Black unit that HeadAmp was using for the demo this WK in London...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Very nice!! 
 Siemens EL34 are typically from communist East-Germany. They look better made than most Russian tubes (actually, cosmetically they look exactly like a better-built Electro-Harmonix EL34), but not as good as the classic Mullard/Amperex EL24. I had a quad off Ebay years ago that blew a tube (cherry red plate, then fuse went) within the first 30 sections of listening (restored vintage speaker amp; not a BHSE). Well, you could say that's Ebay tube buying. But Mullards do have a better reputation of reliability. And from those 30 seconds -- the Seimens sounded good, but Mullards are warmer.
  
 Vintage Mullard EL34 are going to be the gold standard of sonic warmth and reliability. The Holland versions are made from the same Mullard tooling, and at least as good, but reportedly sound a bit less warm / more neutral (I've used both but haven't compared in the same amp). Don't stress so much about the xf codes and base types -- just get a good testing couple of pairs.


----------



## purk

mulveling said:


> *Bro, do you even BHSE?*
> Purk and I have both waffled a lot about the sale of his BHSE to me, and lo -- it finally happened....


 
 I sure miss that amp already.  I had one of the biggest seller remorse ever but then again it will be cherished by Mulveling ....so  it is all for a very good reason.  DIY T2 will get more used now.


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## LaCuffia

Anybody have an opinion on a SR-404 Limited Edition v. the L700?    The former is obviously rare, and has a good reputation.   Just looking for a brief opinion on whether the L700 is worth double the price.


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## Blackmore

To me, both are worth to own, where 404LE llike high quality monitor and L700 are all about fun, but dont get me wrong, when I say fun, I also mean highest quality one
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 404LE were the reason why I sold my HD800. In terms of piano and orchestral work reproduction they just amazing, but they can do more, just in very different way than L700, which are more upfront, full body with amazing bass sounding ear speakers, I simply love them with any music, but classical I love 404LE more, piano is stunning, imo.
  
  
  
 Quote:


lacuffia said:


> Anybody have an opinion on a SR-404 Limited Edition v. the L700?    The former is obviously rare, and has a good reputation.   Just looking for a brief opinion on whether the L700 is worth double the price.


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## LaCuffia

Thanks...so the L700 seems to be the more "musical" option and the LE the more analytical and detailed.   Is the bass on the LE that much less present than on the L700?   The idea of an electrostatic earspeaker with a great bass response like they say the L700 has is very intriguing.  I am not a bass head by any means, but don't mind a little heft in that department without it being too colored.


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## dubharmonic

tranetime said:


> Yama is the U.S. distributor for Stax.  It's never a paticularly satisfying experience buying from them.  Phones aren't answered, voice mail is full, e-mails get answered 10 days after the original was transmitted.  I think they're a very small operation.  However, when they have given me a approximate delivery date, I have received the items on time and in good order.  You need some patience with them.  As I said in my earlier post though, demo first.  Electrostats aren't everyone's cup of tea.


 

 Welp, impulse won over reason, and against my better judgement there's a set of SR-L500s being delivered today. How much time does a new set need to charge up? How many hours until they reach their 'final form'?


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## astrostar59

Hi Mulveling
 I am glad you like your BHSE. Another set of NOS tubes coming your way from me soon as well. Enjoy.
  
 BTW would you say the tube upgrade from stock is worth the cost v SQ hike? I noticed quite a difference in smoothness especially in the treble on David's BHSE with the 009s. So I did prefer the sound with those NOS Mullards in. The amp with stock tubes to me sounded brighter.


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## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> Hi Mulveling
> I am glad you like your BHSE. Another set of NOS tubes coming your way from me soon as well. Enjoy.
> 
> BTW would you say the tube upgrade from stock is worth the cost v SQ hike? I noticed quite a difference in smoothness especially in the treble on David's BHSE with the 009s. So I did prefer the sound with those NOS Mullards in. The amp with stock tubes to me sounded brighter.


 
 Thanks Julian. Honestly I don't even care enough to even get a new-stock set for comparison (and re-bias twice, etc). I've done plenty of tube-rolling in various amps, and even with output & driver tubes slots that are supposed to be "not sensitive" to tube rolling, there is a substantial difference. There are exceptions when you have an amp build that forces such a strong voice of its own (e.g. VAC gear), but I don't think that applies to the BHSE design.
  
 When possible, I've always preferred vintage tubes over new stock, and I almost _always_ find the differences more than worthwhile (I run KT120 in my monoblocks because I need 12 and that's not realistic to get in vintage KT88; run EH 6N30pi in my preamp because there's no alternative there). So if I do any tube rolling in the BHSE it will be for British Mullard vs. my current Holland EL34.


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## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> Thanks Julian. Honestly I don't even care enough to even get a new-stock set for comparison (and re-bias twice, etc). I've done plenty of tube-rolling in various amps, and even with output & driver tubes slots that are supposed to be "not sensitive" to tube rolling, there is a substantial difference. There are exceptions when you have an amp build that forces such a strong voice of its own (e.g. VAC gear), but I don't think that applies to the BHSE design.
> 
> When possible, I've always preferred vintage tubes over new stock, and I almost _always_ find the differences more than worthwhile (I run KT120 in my monoblocks because I need 12 and that's not realistic to get in vintage KT88; run EH 6N30pi in my preamp because there's no alternative there). So if I do any tube rolling in the BHSE it will be for British Mullard vs. my current Holland EL34.


 

 Interesting and confirms my thoughts on this subject. I don't see the point in running stock tubes if the SQ is better with NOS Mullards (for example). The transparent nature of the 009s in particular almost demands that. I wonder how many with the BHSE and using the 009s stay on stock tubes?
  
 Yes I agree on the KGSShv Sanyo being super warm. It was that nature that at that time suited my 009 based system. I have moved DACs (Audio Note DAC 5 Special) since and don't need such a warm push now. My Carbon also seems very neutral and smooth in the upper treble, so very happy with my pairing.
  
 For those who have a tubed DAC there are ways to tweak the final sound signature besides tube rolling. For example Lampizator often uses various caps and cap combinations (piggy backing 2 types of cap) inc Duelunds in the top DACs. I changed the caps from AN Coppers to V-Cap Teflons in my DAC and it did move the sound signature further into the detailed and faster camp which I felt it needed in my system. The V-Caps are the most revealing cap I have ever heard, but not harsh or too sharp, just invisible. The caps were only 200 USD as low uFs and easy to fit. Something to consider for ones wanting to system tune. Duelunds are slightly warmer and a slightly lower treble energy but still very detailed and fast and very realistic. Possibly the best cap ever made IMO.
  
 When I had the Audio Note DAC 4.1 Kit as I tweaked up the parts quality and tube rolled, I started with V-Caps and then tube rolled after I swopped the digital board for the better designed unit. Then changed the caps again after I finished tube rolling. I fitted 5687 NOS Tungsols in the line stage and a nice NOS Mullard ECL82 in the driver position on the PS board. Bendix 6X5 equivalent on the PS board as well. Then Duelund Caps on the PS board and line board as well. It was mixing and matching but in the end it was bang on for my system. The only way after that was get the much more expensive DAC 5.
  
 The BHSE has no caps in the signal path, but the Woo Wes does, so they can be swopped out.


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## Blackmore

Simple said, yes, but getting more in details, no...
  
 404LE are great ear speakers, period, and I dont care what anybody says or find, just my own opinion and based on Stax SRM 600LE amp only, not talking about higher quality options, ok?
  
  
 Just an example. When I listened to Roger Waters "Amased to Death" through 404LE, my mind was in shock, nothing more or less, bass, that you are asking about, was most realistic that I ever heard. Its not hitting, but deep and tight, depth is what 404LE are, no wide head stage, no 3D or any other fancy tricks, just pure sound. I do believe that you need tube based amp for them and Stax guys are not crazy to have released that combo to begin with.
 On the other hand, while L700 are warmer sounding, still they sound fantastic with tubes, love it very much ( you are right and thx for your open mind sharing mulveling !!! ) 
 Crazy thing is, my whole system are tube based, from my CD player, DAC to amp, all of them using tubes, but nothing like tuby sounding I hear, but musical and realistic instead.
  
 Dont worry about bass on L700, its just right there when its there, you see, and you will love them for sure. Classic hard rock live performances are amazing through L700, either modern electronic, Sting or Sade, they do them all with ease and I am not even start about Carmen McRae " As Time Goes By" or Charlie Haden & Antonio Facrione "Heartplay"
  
 Buy and enjoy them
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
  
 Quote:


lacuffia said:


> Thanks...so the L700 seems to be the more "musical" option and the LE the more analytical and detailed.   Is the bass on the LE that much less present than on the L700?   The idea of an electrostatic earspeaker with a great bass response like they say the L700 has is very intriguing.  I am not a bass head by any means, but don't mind a little heft in that department without it being too colored.


----------



## Blackmore

For those who own BHSE.
  
 Guys, if possible, try NOS TESLA EL34 please, just for the kick, if you like, as I am very surprised that nobody did so far.
  
 Cheers.


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## LaCuffia

I have a SRM-T1 (tube based) so it seems that I can't go wrong with either the 404LE or L700.  But I can't buy both, unfortunately.


----------



## Blackmore

Just wait for that moment and buy, maybe used, just like me...
  
  
  
 Quote:


lacuffia said:


> I have a SRM-T1 (tube based) so it seems that I can't go wrong with either the 404LE or L700.  But I can't buy both, unfortunately.


----------



## TraneTime

dubharmonic said:


> Welp, impulse won over reason, and against my better judgement there's a set of SR-L500s being delivered today. How much time does a new set need to charge up? How many hours until they reach their 'final form'?


 
 If by "charge up" you mean burn in, I think that's a question some of the more experienced Stax owners might be best equiped to address.  The L700 was my first electrostat.  They did sound pretty damned great out of the box though.


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## bearFNF

dubharmonic said:


> Welp, impulse won over reason, and against my better judgement there's a set of SR-L500s being delivered today. How much time does a new set need to charge up? How many hours until they reach their 'final form'?


 

 Um, they should "charge" right away and sound great right away. What amp are you using? Hope you got an e-Stat amp to drive your new earspeakers...


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## mulveling

bearfnf said:


> Um, they should "charge" right away and sound great right away. What map are you using? Hope you got an e-Stat amp to drive your new earspeakers...


 
 Several years ago, before I converted to a Stax fanatic, I recall there was a lot of discussion on electrostatic headphones not sounding great until they were fully "charged" by the amp. Usually this was in the context of head-fi meets, about how various Stax systems didn't have adequate time to charge in those scenarios. I remember reading this even about the Stax 007 paired with a Head-amp KGSS -- and I don't know why there would be a charge time in that case. I think maybe this was getting confused with the amp's warmup time towards optimal operation (which really is a thing). Personally, I remember hearing a 007 Mk I w/ KGSS at a couple meets and being pretty underwhelmed because the combo generally lacked impact (I did like the detail, refinement, and "air" of the system, though).
  
 Modern, properly designed Stax amps may have a warmup time, but the bias "charge" time to the headphones is virtually instantaneous. _Some_ electrostatic amps will require music to be playing through the headphones for a bit in order to charge up the headphones, but you don't want those amps. You don't have to worry about this with any of the KG-designed amps or Stax amps.
  
 And as far as burn-in of the Stax headphones -- I've broken in 3 new Stax headphones now (two 009's and one L700), and never noticed much of a sonic difference from start to finish. If anything, pad conditioning (e.g. accumulation of oils and softening of the foam padding) will be the dominant factor in any sonic changes from new.


----------



## LaCuffia

Burn in is almost always a discussion in the planar and dynamic headphones forum section. I am skeptical of the concept and it seems to me really just psychological adjustment period for buyers looking to convince themselves that they didn't throw away money on headphones.


----------



## dubharmonic

6 hours in I'm not really noticing any change from what the SR-L500 sounded like right out of the box. They'e paired with a STAX SRM-353X.
  
 I can't remember where I heard about an extended charging time for the diaphragm. I'd love to see some real evidence behind opinions on burn in!
  
 So far I'm really liking the clarity, speed and definition. The only thing I'm missing is the sub-bass from the planars.


----------



## Arthrumus

I personally don't buy into the concept of burn in simply for the question that if the mechanical behavior of the materials used can drift significantly enough to hear a difference over a short term "burn in" period then how is it that they don't continue to drift at a similar rate until eventual mechanical failure. The materials used in modern headphones should be mechanically stable enough to stay within a reasonable performance tolerance for decades of normal use, and if they can't then the manufacturer is doing something wrong.
  
 With electrostatic headphones I think the argument against the concept of burn in is even stronger since they only have one moving part and it has almost no mass and very little excursion so it really isn't subjected to any meaningful mechanical wear. Amps do change sound as they warm up though, but after they hit operating temperature the sound should stay stable. 
  


dubharmonic said:


> I can't remember where I heard about an extended charging time for the diaphragm. I'd love to see some real evidence behind opinions on burn in!


 
 Maybe from Zeos' video on the SRS-2170 kit? A properly functioning diaphragm charges in about a second. You can test this yourself by unplugging the headphones from the amp and touching all of the pins on the cable with your finger to discharge the diaphragm (don't worry, it's not dangerous, there is so little current stored in the diaphragm that it doesn't even register as a shock). Plug the headphones back into the amp while music is playing and you will hear the volume quickly rise to full output in a matter of seconds.
  
 Also keep in mind that though the diaphragm is statically charged, it's not even remotely a permanent charge. The diaphragms are constantly bleeding off some of their charge and are constantly being charged back up by the bias circuit. If you cut off the bias supply while music is playing the volume immediately starts to fall. The bias circuit and the diaphragm immediately reach a voltage equilibrium, there is no last bit of extra charge that gets in there over time, it's a myth started and spread by people who don't understand how this stuff works.


----------



## astrostar59

Interesting re charging up comments. I haven't noticed this on my Stax system after I moved to amps. Before that going back _many years_ I used to use a Stax SRD-6 energiser, and that DID appear to need to charge itself. After 15 minutes of playing music through it the volume and dynamics seemed to go up. The system at that time was CD Player - Intergrated amp - Speaker Terminals - Stax SRD-6 - Lambda Nova Basic.
  
 Once I moved to Sax amps this effect vanished.


----------



## Arthrumus

Was it an SRD-6sb? If so then what you described could definitely happen depending on how loud you normally listen. Self biasing adapters require the voltage of the music being played to peak over a certain threshold to generate the full bias voltage, and it needs to happen often enough to keep the capacitors in the bias circuit charged throughout a listening session. In contrast to that, powered bias adapters are continuously fed the correct voltage to generate the bias either through direct zener limited mains voltage like on SRD boxes or through a voltage divider off of the + high voltage dc line inside of an amp (how stax does it in their amps) and is not dependent on the music signal to generate that bias. That's why self bias adapters are looked down on compared to powered bias adapters. 

Also sometimes if the anti static coating on the diaphragm of the headphone is compromised (by humidity for example) it can take longer to charge. My Sr-5 used to take a few minutes to reach full output before I recoated the diaphragms. With the new coat of anti static gel it charges instantly like it should.


----------



## Nisbeth

arthrumus said:


> I personally don't buy into the concept of burn in simply for the question that if the mechanical behavior of the materials used can drift significantly enough to hear a difference over a short term "burn in" period then how is it that they don't continue to drift at a similar rate until eventual mechanical failure. The materials used in modern headphones should be mechanically stable enough to stay within a reasonable performance tolerance for decades of normal use, and if they can't then the manufacturer is doing something wrong.
> 
> With electrostatic headphones I think the argument against the concept of burn in is even stronger since they only have one moving part and it has almost no mass and very little excursion so it really isn't subjected to any meaningful mechanical wear. Amps do change sound as they warm up though, but after they hit operating temperature the sound should stay stable.


 
  
 Agree with your comments regarding electrostatics, but remember that "burn-in" (= changes in electrical parameters after initial use) is very real and very measurable for loudspeaker drivers, so it stands to reason that a dynamic headphone transducer could well exhibit the same. HOWEVER, (in capitals!) whether this translates to any sonic difference and whether that difference is perceived as positive or negative by the listener is an entirely different kettle of fish...
  
 /U.


----------



## potkettleblack

dubharmonic said:


> 6 hours in I'm not really noticing any change from what the SR-L500 sounded like right out of the box. They'e paired with a STAX SRM-353X.
> 
> I can't remember where I heard about an extended charging time for the diaphragm. I'd love to see some real evidence behind opinions on burn in!
> 
> So far I'm really liking the clarity, speed and definition. The only thing I'm missing is the sub-bass from the planars.


If you consider upgrading your amp but want to stick with Stax - the 006t was a big improvement over the 353X for me on multiple occasions of comparing the two.


----------



## Rozenberg

This thread seems lively so I figured I might ask here. Also, in need of people to talk about Stax with too.
  
 Lately I've increased my headphones inventory again but as thought, I just couldn't live with more than 2 pairs since the rest will be left unattended. Considering how I loved the sound of my SRS-2020 system, now I kinda want to return to Stax. Well, I did after acquiring the SR-007MK2 but to be honest it's not really my cup of tea. I prefer something bright.
  
 So my plan is to sell all my headphones and if possible get a used SR-009 (if available for a good price). Else I'll just get the L700 and a really good amp.
 Right now I'm spending my free time researching and looking for a combo with the best value in the used market. If everything goes well, I might go with my purchase next month or the month after.
  
 Now the question is, is the Headamp KGSS still relevant? I know I could read some impressions on the internet but need updated one.
 Other amp I'm thinking of is the Exstata that Mjolnir Audio is currently having in stock. Other than that maybe SRM-T1 or such. I don't really plan on going to higher end amps because my budget for the amp is maybe 1000 eur max if live goes well.


----------



## purk

rozenberg said:


> This thread seems lively so I figured I might ask here. Also, in need of people to talk about Stax with too.
> 
> Lately I've increased my headphones inventory again but as thought, I just couldn't live with more than 2 pairs since the rest will be left unattended. Considering how I loved the sound of my SRS-2020 system, now I kinda want to return to Stax. Well, I did after acquiring the SR-007MK2 but to be honest it's not really my cup of tea. I prefer something bright.
> 
> ...


 
 It is still a good amp and should still do very good job with the SR009, just not the SR007.   However, it is an entry level of KG design...but even that it should be better than all of Stax amps in exception to the SRM-T2.  Of course, I would take KGST, KGSSHV, KGSSHV Carbon over it.


----------



## astrostar59

arthrumus said:


> Was it an SRD-6sb? If so then what you described could definitely happen depending on how loud you normally listen. Self biasing adapters require the voltage of the music being played to peak over a certain threshold to generate the full bias voltage, and it needs to happen often enough to keep the capacitors in the bias circuit charged throughout a listening session. In contrast to that, powered bias adapters are continuously fed the correct voltage to generate the bias either through direct zener limited mains voltage like on SRD boxes or through a voltage divider off of the + high voltage dc line inside of an amp (how stax does it in their amps) and is not dependent on the music signal to generate that bias. That's why self bias adapters are looked down on compared to powered bias adapters.


 
 
  
  
 Yes it was an SRD-6SB. I never realised it was 'self biasing'. Interesting. Fed from my amp at that time is was ok, not bad quality. The problem really was having to feed the speaker leads out to 2 devices. TBH if anyone is after a low cost (used) and good sounding Stax system the Lambda Nova Signatures fed by an SRDSB is pretty damb good. Ok, not an 007 or 009 but still leaves many conventional headphones in the dust.
  
 I used the Lambda Nova Signatures later with the Stax SRM-313 and they were great, no treble etch though were fed at that time by a tubed NOS R-2R Audio Note DAC.
  

  

  
  

  
 Harking back to my very first 'audiophile' headphone, check out my Pioneer Piezo headphones I used to won. Sounded quite nice, bit bass light and the ear cups were too thin but miles ahead of other conventional stuff I could afford at that time (1977).


----------



## Rozenberg

purk said:


> It is still a good amp and should still do very good job with the SR009, just not the SR007.   However, it is an entry level of KG design...but even that it should be better than all of Stax amps in exception to the SRM-T2.  Of course, I would take KGST, KGSSHV, KGSSHV Carbon over it.


 
 Kinda depends. If I'm getting the KGSS, I'll get the L700. If I'm getting the 009 first, well... amp has to wait because I know how troublesome it is to take care of an 009. To be honest, I could just barely afford the Omega series because of their amp requirements. If I want a nice amp for them, I gotta save up again.
 One other amp I'm thinking of is the Woo GES but hard to find it used in EU. Else, the SRM-T1 or 006 if found.


----------



## astrostar59

rozenberg said:


> Kinda depends. If I'm getting the KGSS, I'll get the L700. If I'm getting the 009 first, well... amp has to wait because I know how troublesome it is to take care of an 009. To be honest, I could just barely afford the Omega series because of their amp requirements. If I want a nice amp for them, I gotta save up again.
> One other amp I'm thinking of is the Woo GES but hard to find it used in EU. Else, the SRM-T1 or 006 if found.


 

 I would look around the forums for sale ads, for a KGSShv TBH. I sold my 2 KGSShv amps recently as i now have the Carbon, but they were really great sound. Go to the other forum and ask about Woo for more 'buyer advice'. Stax amps will be well behind any of the KG designs I have heard IMO.


----------



## purk

rozenberg said:


> Kinda depends. If I'm getting the KGSS, I'll get the L700. If I'm getting the 009 first, well... amp has to wait because I know how troublesome it is to take care of an 009. To be honest, I could just barely afford the Omega series because of their amp requirements. If I want a nice amp for them, I gotta save up again.
> One other amp I'm thinking of is the Woo GES but hard to find it used in EU. Else, the SRM-T1 or 006 if found.


 
 I think you will enjoy the L700 and KGSS pairing.  Then save a little more and grab the SR009/SR007 and a used KGSSHV amplifier.


----------



## Rozenberg

astrostar59 said:


> I would look around the forums for sale ads, for a KGSShv TBH. I sold my 2 KGSShv amps recently as i now have the Carbon, but they were really great sound. Go to the other forum and ask about Woo for more 'buyer advice'. Stax amps will be well behind any of the KG designs I have heard IMO.




I always look around the forum whenever my browser is open 




purk said:


> I think you will enjoy the L700 and KGSS pairing.  Then save a little more and grab the SR009/SR007 and a used KGSSHV amplifier.




That seems like the reasonable upgrade path. I could actually just keep my 007 and buy better amp but I don't really want the 007.

If I jump straight to the 009 though, life will be a journey 'cause I still need to get the better amp for it.

Also how's the reliability of 009s these days?


----------



## dubharmonic

potkettleblack said:


> If you consider upgrading your amp but want to stick with Stax - the 006t was a big improvement over the 353X for me on multiple occasions of comparing the two.


 

 Can you expand on that? What was different about it?


----------



## yates7592

rozenberg said:


> I always look around the forum whenever my browser is open
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm not sure on this upgrade path. If you go for L700 and KGSS, then yes you'll have a great sounding rig from the start. But if SR009 is what you *really* want, then it will be cheaper in the long-run to get SR009 first, together with a lesser Stax amp than KGSS (e.g. SRM-323), to tide you over until the $$$$ are ready for the amp upgrade to BHSE or KGSShv Carbon, or whatever. With L700/KGSS you will always have to upgrade both and will likely lose money on both, I know I always do when I sell stuff...).  With my suggestion at least SR009 is sorted up front and you'll only lose a smaller amount on the cheaper Stax amp than L700/KGSS. I think with this path your dream rig will also happen faster than if you start off with L700/KGSS.
  
 SR-009 reliability seems to be improving, in that reports of driver failure are seemingly becoming far less common but that is no guarantee.  I went thorugh a similar thought process to you a few months back and ended up buying new SR009 from UK dealer with 2 years warranty because I didn't want to take the risk with either used (channel imbalance, possible abuse/misuse), or going through PJ with very limited warranty and potential expense in sending back and forth to Japan.


----------



## EveTan

Would you say that the failure rate of 009s to be higher than the 007s?


----------



## yates7592

evetan said:


> Would you say that the failure rate of 009s to be higher than the 007s?


 

 I have no idea sorry.


----------



## mulveling

yates7592 said:


> I'm not sure on this upgrade path. If you go for L700 and KGSS, then yes you'll have a great sounding rig from the start. But if SR009 is what you *really* want, then it will be cheaper in the long-run to get SR009 first, together with a lesser Stax amp than KGSS (e.g. SRM-323), to tide you over until the $$$$ are ready for the amp upgrade to BHSE or KGSShv Carbon, or whatever. With L700/KGSS you will always have to upgrade both and will likely lose money on both, I know I always do when I sell stuff...).  With my suggestion at least SR009 is sorted up front and you'll only lose a smaller amount on the cheaper Stax amp than L700/KGSS. I think with this path your dream rig will also happen faster than if you start off with L700/KGSS.
> 
> SR-009 reliability seems to be improving, in that reports of driver failure are seemingly becoming far less common but that is no guarantee.  I went thorugh a similar thought process to you a few months back and ended up buying new SR009 from UK dealer with 2 years warranty because I didn't want to take the risk with either used (channel imbalance, possible abuse/misuse), or going through PJ with very limited warranty and potential expense in sending back and forth to Japan.


 
  
 No half-measures, Walter? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yes, total expenditure will be more with a half-measures system first, but this is an enthusiast venture, so sometimes extra expenses are justified to bring on the joy sooner. Tough call. We can't predict 009 availability/price in the future. And Stax could release a new flagship down the road. Also no way to know how you'll feel about 009 with bad amp vs. L700 with good amp -- some may prefer the former. I think either path is a valid approach, but I'd be inclined to find a tube amp for the L700 -- maybe even a Stax tube amp, if budget doesn't allow other options, over a KGSS. Something about the Solid-State amps just seems like it's fighting the 009's nature a bit, and the KGSS is not as good as the KGSShv anyways. I think the KGSShv is a reasonable inflection point amp; by then you're _*not*_ significantly undercutting the 009's ultimate capabilities. The 009 is just fine on tubes or SS; it simply benefits from the best possible amp, and it's up to the listener to decide which they like better. Personally I prefer tubes, but it's difficult and expensive to find a tube amp which performs at the Carbon or even KGSShv levels. 
  
 And a summary of the 009's general reliability so far: not perfect, not terrible.


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> And a summary of the 009's general reliability so far: not perfect, not terrible.


 
*009 / 009 get the 009, it is the business. *
 As long as your DAC is not too bright or low budget. I would look for a used SRM-717 or SRM-600 at around 700USD as that will be ok on the 009. Then save for a Carbon or other KG amp. Don't forget the KGST either.
  
 I love the 009s, even when I had the 717 with my 007s I still grabbed the 009s the most. So look at your DAC. If it is bright you won't be happy and may need to go 007s.


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> *009 / 009 get the 009, it is the business. *
> As long as your DAC is not too bright or low budget. I would look for a used SRM-717 or SRM-600 at around 700USD as that will be ok on the 009. Then save for a Carbon or other KG amp. Don't forget the KGST either.
> 
> I love the 009s, even when I had the 717 with my 007s I still grabbed the 009s the most. So look at your DAC. If it is bright you won't be happy and may need to go 007s.


 
 Yep, that's a very reasonable approach, when you put it like that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And definitely -- having a bright DAC and/or amp will seriously undercut your ability to enjoy the 009. When I first got my 009 (a little over 2 years now?) I was considering a bright-ish KGSShv mini build and the definitely-bright Matrix X-Sabre DAC. I was so smitten by the 009 at the time, even as heard through this suboptimal setup, that I though this would be OK, though in retrospect that wouldn't have lasted long. Fortunately I went with a slightly better DAC to start with, and quickly upgraded to a warmer sounding (and more dynamic) full-size KGSShv. Around then is when I really started yapping about how the 009 is the best headphone on earth.
  
 But also, you wouldn't want to pair an L700 with bright gear, either. It's not made for that (that's what the 007 Mk I is for).


----------



## Blackmore

With all respect, but no way, unles you are really lucky, but still I dont believe in that, sorry...
  
 If you on the budget, Stax amp is not that bad idea at all, as they do keep their value, even many up here dont think that way or will agree. I was / is in the same situation and again, when the money are limited, you are stuck with Stax own amps for sure, so, just find the best possible match and enjoy, imo.
  
 SRM 600LE with L700 are fantastic, same with Lambda ear speakers like 404LE, 404 or 507.
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> *009 / 009 get the 009, it is the business. *
> As long as your DAC is not too bright or low budget. I would look for a used SRM-717 or *SRM-600 at around 700USD *as that will be ok on the 009. Then save for a Carbon or other KG amp. Don't forget the KGST either.


----------



## paradoxper

Buy Arnauds 727.


----------



## astrostar59

blackmore said:


>


 

 Sorry, I meant 006t
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/726642/stax-srm-006t-energiser-amplifier-in-excellent-condition


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> Buy Arnauds 727.


 

 Or TheAttorney?


----------



## comzee

blackmore said:


> If you on the budget, Stax amp is not that bad idea at all


 
  
 I think if one is on a budget, Stax isn't great in the first place. This might make some heads spin, but electrodynamic systems kill Stax in price v.s. performance.


----------



## paradoxper

astrostar59 said:


> Or TheAttorney?


 
 Whomever is closest.


----------



## VandyMan

I'm selling my modded (by HeadAmp) 727 II because I now have a BHSE.


----------



## Blackmore

No problem, fair enough.
  
 THX
  
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> Sorry, I meant 006t
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/726642/stax-srm-006t-energiser-amplifier-in-excellent-condition


----------



## Rozenberg

yates7592 said:


> I'm not sure on this upgrade path. If you go for L700 and KGSS, then yes you'll have a great sounding rig from the start. But if SR009 is what you *really* want, then it will be cheaper in the long-run to get SR009 first, together with a lesser Stax amp than KGSS (e.g. SRM-323), to tide you over until the $$$$ are ready for the amp upgrade to BHSE or KGSShv Carbon, or whatever. With L700/KGSS you will always have to upgrade both and will likely lose money on both, I know I always do when I sell stuff...).  With my suggestion at least SR009 is sorted up front and you'll only lose a smaller amount on the cheaper Stax amp than L700/KGSS. I think with this path your dream rig will also happen faster than if you start off with L700/KGSS.
> 
> SR-009 reliability seems to be improving, in that reports of driver failure are seemingly becoming far less common but that is no guarantee.  I went thorugh a similar thought process to you a few months back and ended up buying new SR009 from UK dealer with 2 years warranty because I didn't want to take the risk with either used (channel imbalance, possible abuse/misuse), or going through PJ with very limited warranty and potential expense in sending back and forth to Japan.


 
  
 Actually yeah, I'm leaning more toward getting the 009 first. Then I don't know, maybe an 006t for the amp later.
 I just can't justify paying the price of BHSE or KG Carbon. Maybe max I can tolerate is a full size KGSSHV, if found for good price.
 Well, life is still a journey, I have plenty of time to think.
  
 By the way, is there anyone here has ever successfully contacted Stax for replacement parts for the Omega series?
 Different from Lambdas that have replacement parts available from some online shops and completely modular too, I didn't see any for the Omega series.
 I assume it'll be hard to find or costly, when for example the arc spring or headband breaks...


----------



## rgs9200m

The SR009 sounds extremely nice with a KGSShv mini and a *warmish* DAC (be sure to get a sweet, non-fatiguing --in the upper mids + highs-- DAC).
 These amps can be found more or less regularly used for good prices, so I would go this route even if you have to save up an extra grand or so. 
 This combo would work long term and you would not feel the need to upgrade and will cost a lot less in the long run than thrashing/selling/trading.


----------



## astrostar59

rgs9200m said:


> The SR009 sounds extremely nice with a KGSShv mini and a *warmish* DAC (be sure to get a sweet, non-fatiguing --in the upper mids + highs-- DAC).
> These amps can be found more or less regularly used for good prices, so I would go this route even if you have to save up an extra grand or so.
> This combo would work long term and you would not feel the need to upgrade and will cost a lot less in the long run than thrashing/selling/trading.


 
 Dunno, if he doesn't have the budget right now, and buys wisely (SRM-727 for example) at a good price, you can sell almost for NO LOSS after and move up.
  
 Totally agree on the warmish DAC and 009s. The KGSShv Sanyo however is very warm already so on that amp almost any decent DAC will sound good IMO. It comes down to treble energy and detail - lots of sugar on the cake kills the taste sort of thing and leads to feeling sick (ear fatigue). Not heard the Mini version.


----------



## astrostar59

*Transparency Wars*
 On this recurring subject I am thinking after all the different DACs in my house over the years, I am in the warm and no emphasis camp. I dig great detail and decay, those clues that get you excited and feeling like you are 'there'. But in many cases it has led me to a treble overkill and aversion to digital processing. It has to be balanced and sound convincing, and not irritating either. IMO it is best to compare a DAC against live / real music rather than to another DAC, or the point of reference can be wrong.
  
 My route and the path I have got close to my audio nirvana is a tubed NOS DAC at the source and the 009s on the other end. Because I can tweak the sound a bit in my DAC with cap swops and / or tubes. I can tweak that last bit of upper treble energy that I found a bit of a curse on high end headphones. I do like listening quite loud so I guess this 'treble edge' eversion is more of a problem?
  
*System Synergy*
 The other route that I believe can work extremely well is have tubes in the amp, or tubes in the Dac AND the amp. I am scared to commit to a full SS system as I then have no control over the sound and can see myself going on the buying and selling bandwagon again. Total respect to those who have a full SS system mind.
  
 Anyway, that is my (personal) theory. Maybe others have had similar experiences. I am sure some lucky ones hit it right first time and think, '_what is this plonker on about?_' But for me, I have come to a happy place along a bumpy road limited by budgets and access to demos of any gear I fancy the look of (buying blind).
  
 Seems daft that I have found it complicated getting there in a headphone system, but I actually think it is as complex as any top speaker system. All IMO.


----------



## rgs9200m

I also always keep at least one tube amp so I can tweak things.
 I switched to VT231 tubes on my dynamic amp (and different VT231 tubes sound significantly different from each other too). The VT231 is an RCA version of the 6NS7 and is known to be nice and warm.
 Yep, I'm always chasing that holy grail of transparency and musical ease.


----------



## cat6man

rgs9200m said:


> The SR009 sounds extremely nice with a KGSShv mini and a *warmish* DAC (be sure to get a sweet, non-fatiguing --in the upper mids + highs-- DAC).
> These amps can be found more or less regularly used for good prices, so I would go this route even if you have to save up an extra grand or so.
> This combo would work long term and you would not feel the need to upgrade and will cost a lot less in the long run than thrashing/selling/trading.


 
  
 an r2r dac is a perfect match for sr009, in my opinion.


----------



## astrostar59

cat6man said:


> an r2r dac is a perfect match for sr009, in my opinion.


 

 Ooh, now you said it first I have to agree. I recommend Audio Note Kit 3.1 or 4.1 and you can tweak the parts and tubes. Great fun to build as well.


----------



## Rossliew

Would the SR-009 be a good match with a Sanyo KGSSHV + Audio Note 4.1 kit DAC?


----------



## astrostar59

rossliew said:


> Would the SR-009 be a good match with a Sanyo KGSSHV + Audio Note 4.1 kit DAC?


 

 I had that EXACT system and yes it is awesome....


----------



## PATB

astrostar59 said:


> I had that EXACT system and yes it is awesome....


 
  
 I still have that EXACT system for a year now.  No complaints


----------



## Joeybgood

cat6man said:


> an r2r dac is a perfect match for sr009, in my opinion.


 
 Waiting on my 009s. Trying to decide if I should pair my Carbon with my Sonic Frontiers MK II or Yggy. If a warmer DAC is a better pairing, I'm then leaning towards the SFD. Thoughts?


----------



## cat6man

joeybgood said:


> Waiting on my 009s. Trying to decide if I should pair my Carbon with my Sonic Frontiers MK II or Yggy. If a warmer DAC is a better pairing, I'm then leaning towards the SFD. Thoughts?


 
  
 just to clarify, i have a totaldac d1-dual and i do not consider it 'warm'..............my feeling is that it is not 'harsh' or 'too bright' and therefore does not need to be 'tamed'


----------



## Joeybgood

cat6man said:


> just to clarify, i have a totaldac d1-dual and i do not consider it 'warm'..............my feeling is that it is not 'harsh' or 'too bright' and therefore does not need to be 'tamed'


 
 with both being R2R , I will try them both out and see which I prefer. Though the SF has tubes in the output, I wouldn't say IT is particularly warm either.. tks much


----------



## mulveling

Yggy is an excellent match with 009 and any of the amps I've paired it to: KGST, KGSShv, Carbon, hev90-balanced, BHSE. I'd avoid he USB input, though because that's when things got a bit on the bright side for me.
  
 To be fair I do think some will prefer the 009/BHSE pairing with a source that adds a bit more warmth than the Yggy (and this also holds for the Carbon and some KGSShv units, but to a slightly lesser extent) -- but it's an awesome system (cleanest, most detailed and accurate system I've owned) with overall a good balance. If I could tweak one thing though, it would be a Yggy-quality (or better) source for the BHSE with a touch of warmth (not too much). Maybe I should finally hook up my Turntable w/ Koetsu to Stax.


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> If I could tweak one thing though, it would be a Yggy-quality (or better) source for the BHSE with a touch of warmth (not too much). Maybe I should finally hook up my Turntable w/ Koetsu to Stax.


 
 Or a tubed DAC like a Lampizator or Audio Note?


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> Or a tubed DAC like a Lampizator or Audio Note?


 
 Quite possibly, though I haven't actually heard any of the better/more expensive tubed sources myself yet. It's a curiosity I'll probably have to explore later on, since I'm not likely to land a DIY T2 to supplant the BHSE.
  
 To be honest I'm somewhat averse to dropping a lot of cash on a digital source because most of them depreciate pretty rapidly (compared to Stax heaphones & amps).


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> To be honest I'm somewhat averse to dropping a lot of cash on a digital source because most of them depreciate pretty rapidly (compared to Stax heaphones & amps).


 
 I buy used. My Audio Note DAC 5 would have been £25K new, and I got it for £6K. The depreciation has already happened so I could sell for minimal loss if required.


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> I buy used. My Audio Note DAC 5 would have been £25K new, and I got it for £6K. The depreciation has already happened so I could sell for minimal loss if required.


 
 I knew they were expensive, but damn! I guess I'm not one to talk on source prices given my Koetsu and Clearaudio turntable setup for the Tannoys (Clearaudio crap is way overpriced though, wish I had a mulligan on that one to do VPI or SOTA). I bet I would love your source with BHSE/009.


----------



## jibzilla

mulveling said:


> I knew they were expensive, but damn! I guess I'm not one to talk on source prices given my Koetsu and Clearaudio turntable setup for the Tannoys (Clearaudio crap is way overpriced though, wish I had a mulligan on that one to do VPI or SOTA). I bet I would love your source with BHSE/009.


 
  
 Get a vintage Japanese TT from aleado/yahoo japan and a step down transformer from acupwr. I can't go back to my Pavane after hearing the Kenwood and that's just with my daily driver at30he. If you have $1k kp-1100/9010, $2k Yamaha gt2000, $3k Kenwood L07-D, $4k gt2000x. You will need space though. Not playing with the gigantic and tremendous. The shipping will not be cheap. For me it was $725 for the TT, $275 shipping but it was well packaged, which is critical, and came in its original box.
  
 If you have to have belt drive a micro seiki bl-51, 77, or 91 will spank any Clearaudio, VPI or Sota.
  
 I have yet to listen to the Kenwood through my stax setup. Going to have to try that out soon. Really amazing with the Ravenswood and hd800/Lcd-X.


----------



## LaCuffia

So is Clearaudio TT not any good? Was looking at the Concept. 

I currently have the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon and it sounds pretty good with a Stax system.


----------



## jibzilla

lacuffia said:


> So is Clearaudio TT not any good? Was looking at the Concept.
> 
> I currently have the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon and it sounds pretty good with a Stax system.


 
  
 Vintage TT's from Japan will best the modern day stuff by quite a bit. Made when vinyl was at its peak. Do not skimp on the step down transformer. Hifido.co.jp will cost more but you can avoid the auction process. Really avoid the modern day re issue records as well.


----------



## LaCuffia

If you like Jazz the Blue Note reissue series by Music Matters is incredible sounding. Most modern record pressings are generally not good but there a few great companies doing worthwhile things.


----------



## mulveling

lacuffia said:


> So is Clearaudio TT not any good? Was looking at the Concept.
> 
> I currently have the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon and it sounds pretty good with a Stax system.


 
 They're actually very good tables, but overpriced in my judgement. You could certainly say that about Koetsu cartridges too, but for whatever reason I feel some regret at the money spent on my Clearaudio (and therefore come off as hard on it sometimes), but not my Koetsus. If you love the Koetsu sound, nothing else will do that -- at least the other stuff I've tried isn't even close -- e.g. high-end Ortofons sound like they're from a different planet. But the turntable just needs to be a good solid platform. Once you get to a certain point, I'd put all further emphasis on the cartridge + tonearm.
  
 To be fair my table is the very expensive Innovation Wood, not one of their budget-ish models.  It's an excellent table. But given a second chance, there are better uses of that money even keeping it in audio gear expenditures (I could've bought a friggin DIY T2 with that money). Clearaudios can be excellent options if you get a great deal used. And the Concept will absolutely be a a big upgrade over a Pro-Ject Carbon.


----------



## jibzilla

mulveling said:


> They're actually very good tables, but overpriced in my judgement. You could certainly say that about Koetsu cartridges too, but for whatever reason I feel some regret at the money spent on my Clearaudio (and therefore come off as hard on it sometimes), but not my Koetsus. If you love the Koetsu sound, nothing else will do that -- at least the other stuff I've tried isn't even close -- e.g. high-end Ortofons sound like they're from a different planet. But the turntable just needs to be a good solid platform. Once you get to a certain point, I'd put all further emphasis on the cartridge + tonearm.
> 
> To be fair my table is the very expensive Innovation Wood, not one of their budget-ish models.  It's an excellent table. But given a second chance, there are better uses of that money even keeping it in audio gear expenditures (I could've bought a friggin DIY T2 with that money). Clearaudios can be excellent options if you get a great deal used. And the Concept will absolutely be a a big upgrade over a Pro-Ject Carbon.


 

 One nice thing about the micro seiki bl series is that it is easy to put further emphasis on the cart and tonearm with different arm boards. A bl-91 has amazing price to performance ratio imo.


----------



## PATB

Wait....the SR-009 sounds good with a TT?  What about surface noise etc.?  I feel my wallet trembling....


----------



## mulveling

patb said:


> Wait....the SR-009 sounds good with a TT?  What about surface noise etc.?  I feel my wallet trembling....


 
 Ah good, you've put us back on track with Stax talk!
  
 I actually haven't tried it yet. Frightened of the consequences if I love it and then suddenly have a need for 2 expensive turntable setups in 2 locations...
 Yes surface noise and excessive top-end energy with MC carts would be my concern as well -- but the Koetsu carts are perfect for combating those two issues. My other concern would be large amounts of subsonic energy making into my precious BHSE/Staxens and potentially causing issue. My phono stage has a subsonic filter, but I can still see those hyooge 15" Tannoy woofers flapping with high volumes on certain records (a wonderful listening experience regardless). Tannoys can take some abuse, but I don't want to push my luck with the Stax.


----------



## jibzilla

patb said:


> Wait....the SR-009 sounds good with a TT?  What about surface noise etc.?  I feel my wallet trembling....


 
  
 RCM (Record Cleaning Machine) Nitty Gritty 1.0 and stick with mid to late 70's if possible. The 60's are great as well but hard to find stuff without crackle which RCM's will not get rid of. Past 1980 and your looking at digital and loudness war victims but there are a few early 80's records that sound great. 
  
 Otherwise yeah it should sound ridiculously good. Will make flac from tidal and a great dac like the Pavane sound compressed. My Avid Pellar phono pre is nice but I got it used for $500. New you want to go with Hagerman hands down. No one else comes close to Hagerman to me. 2juki for cartridges.


----------



## LaCuffia

I do all 90 percent of my music listening with a turntable. Just got a 404 LE and paired it with my SRM-T1. Can't wait to hook it up to my phono stage and spin some records.


----------



## LaCuffia

I meant 90 percent not "all" 90 percent. Anyway , nothing like vinyl. I'll leave the DACs, MP3's, CD's to others. I am not saying digital cannot sound just as good. It's just a preference.


----------



## jibzilla

lacuffia said:


> I meant 90 percent not "all" 90 percent. Anyway , nothing like vinyl. I'll leave the DACs, MP3's, CD's to others. I am not saying digital cannot sound just as good. It's just a preference.


 
  
 Shipping is a bear though. Here in America I honestly think you have a better chance of getting a TT from Japan cause people in America are often ignorant of how to ship TT's. The Japan marketplace really seems to have shipping down pat.


----------



## LaCuffia

What are the best vintage TT's in Japan for $1K range ?


----------



## Spork67

Hmm. All this talk of rotating vinyl.
 Maybe I should be looking at a new cartridge for my old KD-550 instead of looking to sell it.


----------



## mulveling

lacuffia said:


> I meant 90 percent not "all" 90 percent. Anyway , nothing like vinyl. I'll leave the DACs, MP3's, CD's to others. I am not saying digital cannot sound just as good. It's just a preference.


 
 Have to agree, there's nothing like vinyl (just as there's nothing like Stax). Unless you have big reel tapes, that is...
 It's just a damn shame that I like expensive cartridges, and that they're a part that wears down with use.


----------



## jibzilla

lacuffia said:


> What are the best vintage TT's in Japan for $1K range ?


 
  
 My Kenwood kp-9010. You really can't go wrong though. Whether Sony, Technics, Pioneer, Micro, Denon, Victor, Luxman they all have their pros and cons. I really like the 4 Direct Drive and 3 Belt Drives that I recently mentioned if I'm going to be picky. 
  
 At $1k your looking at the kp-9010,  bl-51 or maybe bl-77. There are allot of hidden costs with vinyl though. In total I'm probably close to what I paid for my used Pavane, $3500.
  
 Yahoo Japan and Paypal will add 11% to the cost. On Hifido.co.jp I see 3 kenwood kp-7010's, almost a kp-9010, for $1k, probably $1250 shipped. Vintage Knob has the skinny on most of the vintage TT's. Stay away from ebay and don't worry about 120v. Just drop the $130 on the acupwr step down transformer. It probably will not seem like a good deal with the hefty shipping, fees and step down transformer but I give you my word with just a dl-110 cart and bugle 2 pre you will be amazed.
  
 Just hooked up my Kenwood to the kgsshv/007mk1. Listened to Marvin Gaye-What's Going On, John Coltrane-Giant Steps, Neil Young- Rust Never Sleeps, Miles Davis- Kind of Blue, The Kinks-Are the Village Green Preservation Society, Derek and the Dominos- Layla. Just amazing


----------



## LaCuffia

The Kenwood looks really nice. Seems built like a tank. Appreciate the tips. I had my TT for a couple of years now and always enjoy researching others. VPI is made right here in my home state of NJ and has a great reputation. I can see though that the Japanese models from the 70's are of tremendous quality.


----------



## LaCuffia

By the way, great record selection too. I have Kind of Blue on 45 rpm MoFi edition and it sounds amazing. That set up you have must be really special. The 007 will be next on my Stax journey but not until next year.


----------



## jibzilla

lacuffia said:


> The Kenwood looks really nice. Seems built like a tank. Appreciate the tips. I had my TT for a couple of years now and always enjoy researching others. VPI is made right here in my home state of NJ and has a great reputation. I can see though that the Japanese models from the 70's are of tremendous quality.


 
  
 Nobody did TT's quite like micro. My Kenwood and the Yamaha gt2000 I believe are rebadged micro's. The L07-D does look to be Kenwood's own design. Micro does continue to make TT's under a different name. If I could afford one I would get one but they sell for $20k+. I have talked to many fellow micro owners and they almost never move on to something else.


----------



## JimL11

Another alternative is idler drive.  I read that Sugano tested his Koetsu cartridges on a Garrard idler drive turntable, and one can very good results with a Lenco 75/78 idler drive for a modest cost.  Both of course mounted in a heavy plinth with vibration/acoustic isolation.  The Japanese direct drive turntables are seeing a revival but need to have good vibration/acoustic isolation.


----------



## Rossliew

Can anyone share if the Technics SL-300 is a good TT for a start?


----------



## jibzilla

rossliew said:


> Can anyone share if the Technics SL-300 is a good TT for a start?


 
  
 Vinyl Engine and Audiokharma would be a better place to ask. I personally do not see the hefty shipping, fees and step down transformer being well worth it till you hit $1k. For technics that would be a sl-1025.


----------



## Joeybgood

I'm just now diving headfirst into Estatland. I've been told by a few folks that Estat cans do not require/do not improve with burn-in hours like dynamic and planar cans do.  Is this the general consensus of everyone that owns them? I have a new pair coming in a few days. Tks in advance for your advice.


----------



## zolkis

All materials change with time, but with Stax e-stats there is little variation in my experience and AFAIK. Your brain will adapt more to the sound than the phones would change. If you don't like something in the sound, or you hope it will get improved in time, the reason for that change would more likely be because of getting used to the sound, or because of getting a more synergistic amp or source.


----------



## Joeybgood

zolkis said:


> All materials change with time, but with Stax e-stats there is little variation in my experience and AFAIK. Your brain will adapt more to the sound than the phones would change. If you don't like something in the sound, or you hope it will get improved in time, the reason for that change would more likely be because of getting used to the sound, or because of getting a more synergistic amp or source.


 
 makes sense. much tks


----------



## astrostar59

joeybgood said:


> makes sense. much tks


 
  


zolkis said:


> All materials change with time, but with Stax e-stats there is little variation in my experience and AFAIK. Your brain will adapt more to the sound than the phones would change. If you don't like something in the sound, or you hope it will get improved in time, the reason for that change would more likely be because of getting used to the sound, or because of getting a more synergistic amp or source.


 

 Funny, I was just discussing this subject today with a hifi buddy. I also think the brain gets used to the SQ hike from upgrades. Over the years, I have done various tweaks and changed items in my system and more or less it has got better each time. Sometimes the upgrade was big and quite obvious, other times more subtle, but in a few weeks I find I 'accept' the new level as the norm, and it looses some of it's wow factor. This wow factor is what you get in a demo in the store, or on first getting new gear at home. It is not necessarily closer to real music maybe? It may be just a bit more detail or soundstage width. Dunno. But as I say, to me it seems to fade in time, a bit like driving a fast car and you don't notice you are driving faster until you get back in the old one.
  
 If you find you are forgetting the gear and chilling to music more than before, then that is a good sign. But will we ever stop looking I wonder? Another bigger subject.
  
 I think it can be an addiction, try new stuff, like hopeless shopaholics who have a house full of clothes still in the bags they were bought in (my ex wife was like that). I have tried to control it as best I can. Now where was the used DAC advert I saw?


----------



## Joeybgood

astrostar59 said:


> Funny, I was just discussing this subject today with a hifi buddy. I also think the brain gets used to the SQ hike from upgrades. Over the years, I have done various tweaks and changed items in my system and more or less it has got better each time. Sometimes the upgrade was big and quite obvious, other times more subtle, but in a few weeks I find I 'accept' the new level as the norm, and it looses some of it's wow factor. This wow factor is what you get in a demo in the store, or on first getting new gear at home. It is not necessarily closer to real music maybe? It may be just a bit more detail or soundstage width. Dunno. But as I say, to me it seems to fade in time, a bit like driving a fast car and you don't notice you are driving faster until you get back in the old one.
> 
> If you find you are forgetting the gear and chilling to music more than before, then that is a good sign. But will we ever stop looking I wonder? Another bigger subject.
> 
> I think it can be an addiction, try new stuff, like hopeless shopaholics who have a house full of clothes still in the bags they were bought in (my ex wife was like that). I have tried to control it as best I can. Now where was the used DAC advert I saw?


 
 I hear ya! Reallllly trying to find  a sustained sense of contentment with my gear and just enjoy it without thinking "hmmmm.. this sounds great but......."  I really feel the constant search for 'better' (upgraditis) is a distraction and saps the level of enjoyment that I should be experiencing. Time to chill and just listen!!!!


----------



## zolkis

In the past few months I've been just leaning back and enjoying my systems. I found that a convenient 'good enough' beats 'the best' for me, as I've been mostly listening to my mobile setup during the past 3 months, even though my "fixed" home rig is far better in most respects. However, I am not immune to upgraditis either, since my new amps will hopefully be ready in a month or two, and will definitely compare them to the BHSE (not expected to beat it, but to get decently close for a smaller cost). Perhaps it will be a big bang on the floor, but I like experimenting and then sharing how NOT to do stuff .


----------



## bmichels

Me too, just enjoying my new BHSE + SR009 

I Will investigate to upgrade my DAC next week.


----------



## martyn73

zolkis said:


> In the past few months I've been just leaning back and enjoying my systems. I found that a convenient 'good enough' beats 'the best' for me, as I've been mostly listening to my mobile setup during the past 3 months, even though my "fixed" home rig is far better in most respects. However, I am not immune to upgraditis either, since my new amps will hopefully be ready in a month or two, and will definitely compare them to the BHSE (not expected to beat it, but to get decently close for a smaller cost). Perhaps it will be a big bang on the floor, but I like experimenting and then sharing how NOT to do stuff .


 
 I'm afflicted with downgraditis for my mobile set up; out with the Mojo and in with the O2 for my iPhone 6S and HD650. If the O2 is just as good as my Canford headphone amp then the O2 will be gleefully condemned to sale by auction. I've arranged a sightless test of DACs connected to my SRM-727II to find out if there's any truth in hi-fi DAC verbiage. 
  
 A cure for Stax upgraditis is to listen to a veiled dynamic headphone.


----------



## purk

bmichels said:


> Me too, just enjoying my new BHSE + SR009
> 
> I Will investigate to upgrade my DAC next week.


 
 I'm happy with the Yggy as well as other BHSE onwers.


----------



## Joeybgood

purk said:


> I'm happy with the Yggy as well as other BHSE onwers.


 
 I'm hoping I'll be equally as enamored with my Carbon / yggy combo.


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> Have to agree, there's nothing like vinyl (just as there's nothing like Stax). Unless you have big reel tapes, that is...
> It's just a damn shame that I like expensive cartridges, and that they're a part that wears down with use.


 

 So do knees but we go out for walks. Don't worry, just enjoy.


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> So do knees but we go out for walks. Don't worry, just enjoy.


 
 I do enjoy them, and don't let worry of wear or accident get me down too much. But it still sucks when an expensive & beloved cartridge bites it, as happened with my Koetsu Onyx Platinum recently (that one was due to an accident not caused by me, but at least I'd got to enjoy it for a few years and hundreds of hours). Cartridges are far more delicate than large glass tubes, and typically have less hours of lifetime on them too. Still worth it, I agree!
  
 There are a number of beloved albums I've got on both digital and vinyl, where you can tell that the digital copy will NEVER sound good, no matter what DAC you're pushing it through -- while the vinyl copy sounds absolutely glorious. This occurs more than I'd like. And it hardly EVER happens the other way, even with bargain-bin, slightly beat up vinyl pressings. Ugh.
  
 I figure that if I ever need to downsize in life and have to unload my Tannoys (which I would absolutely hate to do, like losing a limb), then I could at least find a way to keep the turntable, a couple Koetsus, a beater Ortofon, my choice of ~500 vinyl records, the BHSE and either hev90-balanced or Carbon, my 009s and L700 (see ya 007, lol), and have at least that epic headphone system as my consolation prize in life.


----------



## 3X0

I've been told vinyl is the only path upwards for me. Too many downsides to even be worth considering for my specific needs though.


----------



## LaCuffia

Really enjoying this setup...next stop - the 007 but not for a long time! I've found the sweet spot. I like it much better than the 207 I had. It's actually quite similar to the SR-5 but offers a bit more transparency and better soundstage.


----------



## jibzilla

3x0 said:


> I've been told vinyl is the only path upwards for me. Too many downsides to even be worth considering for my specific needs though.


 
  
 I def. get where your coming from but when it all comes together it is awesome. The sl-1025 that I mentioned is very durable and has interchangeable parts with the sl-1200 on the off chance something bad happens. Victor made some really nice fully automatics. Whether your worried about durability or ease of use there's usually an answer if you dig deep enough. I would def. stick with vintage. Japan in particular.


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> I do enjoy them, and don't let worry of wear or accident get me down too much. But it still sucks when an expensive & beloved cartridge bites it, as happened with my Koetsu Onyx Platinum recently (that one was due to an accident not caused by me, but at least I'd got to enjoy it for a few years and hundreds of hours). Cartridges are far more delicate than large glass tubes, and typically have less hours of lifetime on them too. Still worth it, I agree!


 
 What do you find you enjoy in Vinyl that is better Mulveling? The reason I ask is my Audio Note DAC 5 Special is made a a company obsessed with tubed amplifiers and turntables, and who came to CD by being dragged into it. Their DACs buck the trend and they threw out the 'brick wall' filter and dropped over sampling as well.
  
 The success of their DACs is really the result of trying to get the 'Vinyl sound' out of CD. Audio Note DACs don't measure so well on test equipment, not great SN ratio, THD around -70db BUT they sound so good.
  
 I have read that Vinyl has a lower dynamic range than Redbook, we all know that. Also distortion is higher, intermodulation noise is higher. So why does it sound better? Many are saying it is because Vinyl has a real world resolution especially in the mid-range a lot higher than CD. I think this is a bit like photographic film (grain) was much finer until very recently than digital back on cameras.
  
 And in digital cameras they still have real issue with contrast, the white highlights go totally white so photos lack details.
  
 Also possibly the Vinyl and Cartridges then a Phono Stage all create a filter of sorts (an analogue filter that is) that reduces and slows the high frequency energy in the music and makes it easier to listen too?
  
 All IMO.
  
 I find it fascinating that 1940's technology can still beat digital replay even today and with 20K + DACs.


----------



## Rossliew

Perhaps because vinyl as a physical format disallows over compression in the mastering so that the vinyl itself may be pressed. Or so I read somewhere lol.


----------



## mulveling

Actually digital is the superior medium on most points, including virtually all measurement parameters. But vinyl is more robust than most people give credit for (e.g. you can't store an album on ONE digital disc or drive for decades without making copies), and for whatever reasons I've had _much_ better luck getting the best sound from most albums album off its vinyl copy. I certainly do believe there are multiple psychoacoustic reasons why I prefer vinyl, and perhaps there is also a difference in the mastering/engineering quality that went into vinyl pressings.
  
 I got into vinyl 9 years ago with a pretty nice rig, and shunned digital for years after that -- actually refused to buy digital music for a while, and gave away my SACDs. I've gotten over that snobbery, and I find that digital is getting more enjoyable with the recent crop of $2K DACs, and also MUCH more enjoyable through Stax headphones -- rather than being too revealing, I actually feel that if there's anything good in the track, the Stax will bring it out. Now if your gear is too bright, that's another story -- the 009 will be merciless


----------



## purk

mulveling said:


> Actually digital is the superior medium on most points, including virtually all measurement parameters. But vinyl is more robust than most people give credit for (e.g. you can't store an album on ONE digital disc or drive for decades without making copies), and for whatever reasons I've had _much_ better luck getting the best sound from most albums album off its vinyl copy. I certainly do believe there are multiple psychoacoustic reasons why I prefer vinyl, and perhaps there is also a difference in the mastering/engineering quality that went into vinyl pressings.
> 
> I got into vinyl 9 years ago with a pretty nice rig, and shunned digital for years after that -- actually refused to buy digital music for a while, *and gave away my SACDs*. I've gotten over that snobbery, and I find that digital is getting more enjoyable with the recent crop of $2K DACs, and also MUCH more enjoyable through Stax headphones -- rather than being too revealing, I actually feel that if there's anything good in the track, the Stax will bring it out. Now if your gear is too bright, that's another story -- the 009 will be merciless


 
 Truth people.  mulveling is a decent dude!


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

I really like vinyl, but the superior medium is reel to reel tape, crushes everything.
 The only way to get digital sounding like a reel to reel tape (and way better than vinyl) is having an excellent DAC like Metrum Adagio or DCS Vivaldi, playing the digital transfer (with the best AD converter possible, like a Weiss ADC2 for example, not a cheap Digidesign) of the reel to reel tape at the original bit rate of the master.
  
 The reason why vinyl sounds better than CD is different master and distortion effects (beautiful ones, like good tube gear). 95% of sound engineers doesn't master music like they want, because record labels want X sound for commercial reasons.


----------



## LaCuffia

For modern records, the mastering for the vinyl editions is often much different (and better) than the CD/digital version.   But it really depends on the band too sometimes.   Bands like Spoon and Wilco, for example, really care what their records sound like and their vinyl editions sound incredible.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

lacuffia said:


> For modern records, the mastering for the vinyl editions is often much different (and better) than the CD/digital version.   But it really depends on the band too sometimes.   Bands like Spoon and Wilco, for example, really care what their records sound like and their vinyl editions sound incredible.


 
  
 Yes, in vinyl and CD, you're listening to a superior master but with and inferior medium (vinyl) vs an inferior master but superior medium (CD), better master will always sound better in any format...but, same master at 24/96 bit rate with the superior dinamics, channel separation and noise floor of digital...mmm totally different story


----------



## LaCuffia

torofiestasol said:


> Yes, in vinyl and CD, you're listening to a superior master but with and inferior medium (vinyl) vs an inferior master but superior medium (CD), better master will always sound better in any format...but, same master at 24/96 bit rate with the superior dinamics, channel separation and noise floor of digital...mmm totally different story


 
 The problem I see is that there isn't a huge demand/market for high quality digital formats.  Most consumers of digital format are getting music from streaming services, iTunes, Amazon, etc., and they really don't care for the differences in quality from say, standard mp3 and 24/96 bit rate.   The vinyl market is usually where you get the audiophiles and people who care about high quality sound, so that's why you see better/different mastering in that format.   But that's not to say record companies don't try to exploit the vinyl fad, and basically just dump the crappy/compressed digital master onto vinyl.  It happens a lot.   So you have to be careful what you are purchasing.


----------



## vapman

As someone who worked in the vinyl industry until quite recently, there was a lot of stuff I quietly told people not to buy because I knew it was MP3's slapped onto a vinyl as cheap as possible. A lot of times we would get in newly pressed colored vinyl and well..... listening to it through a $6k stereo rig should make it sound quite nice, but everyone agreed we would probably have been better off listening to it from YouTube.
  
 This is certainly not the case of all new vinyl releases. Just be cautious of what you get. It is especially problematic with reissues of stuff that hasn't been available anywhere except the same MP3 rips that have been floating around the net since Napster days.
  
 OT but relevant to the recent discussion and would be very sad if any fellow listeners got stiffed on some crappy records pressed from MP3 masters.


----------



## jibzilla

vapman said:


> OT but relevant to the recent discussion and would be very sad if any fellow listeners got stiffed on some crappy records pressed from MP3 masters.


 
  
 That happened to me and many others. I have heard good things about blue note as someone else has mentioned but I have never listened to blue note myself. I stick to 1970-1980 for vinyl. Records would be the 3rd worst caveat to vinyl with attaching the cart to the head shell in 2nd and shipping 1st. I really recommend driving to where your TT is being sold at and bringing it back yourself or buying from Japan as their shipping is impeccable.
  
 Just listened to some records through my stax setup. Getting addictive.


----------



## vapman

I remember a while back there was some talk of using other services than PJ for buying Stax new. Has anybody had good experiences with other vendors? I'm mainly concerned about the warranty. I am itching to get some stax back in the setup.


----------



## LaCuffia

vapman said:


> I remember a while back there was some talk of using other services than PJ for buying Stax new. Has anybody had good experiences with other vendors? I'm mainly concerned about the warranty. I am itching to get some stax back in the setup.




I bought the 2170 system from Elusive Disc and they were pretty good. I think they are based in Indiana. Of course the prices are a bit higher than PriceJapan but you get the US warranty and they offer 10 percent off for online purchases.


----------



## vapman

lacuffia said:


> I bought the 2170 system from Elusive Disc and they were pretty good. I think they are based in Indiana. Of course the prices are a bit higher than PriceJapan but you get the US warranty and they offer 10 percent off for online purchases.


 

 I will go with them, thanks. The price is worth it if you get the US warranty... that is what i am really after.


----------



## paradoxper

Looks as if Yamas is giving PJ a run?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STAX-SR-009-Electrostatic-Earspeaker-US-Warranty-/172312817853?hash=item281ea4f0bd:g:GjUAAOSwv-NWZ2X4&rmvSB=true


----------



## rgs9200m

Yep I get my Stax gear from Elusive Disc. I have also gotten lots of music from them over the years, and various cables+accessories. They have periodic sales that are pretty good. I've never had a problem with them. They have been around a long time.


----------



## dubharmonic

Can anyone recommend a storage / travel case for Lambdas?


----------



## LaCuffia

Interested in a good carry case for the Lambda series too. Can't find anything.


----------



## vapman

Surely there are cheaper options but when I had Lambdas I had them in a Pelican case.


----------



## zolkis

> Can anyone recommend a storage / travel case for Lambdas?
     



 If you don't need a huge pelican case that is designed to stand impact, you could buy a reasonably big hard shell from ebay or amazon, wrap the phones in bubble sheet or use some foam for padding where needed (or get a pick-and-pluck foam insert and dig a hole for the headphones).
  
 Also, you could use their own factory box for traveling, although it's not the most convenient to put the phones back into those every time after usage.


----------



## Spork67

How robust does it need to be? If baggage handlers are touching it a pelican case would be a good investment. If it's your own carry on / car case you could use anything. I had some cheap ebay makeup bags I used for fishing gear for a couple of years, they were perfect for the job, and I reckon they'd fit a set of HPs well. Sometimes you can get creative.


----------



## hardpike

Hi everyone
Finally entering in the stax world.
I got some srd-x pro & lambdas low bias
I also will get some sr-207 shortly
Just listen to the combo right now.
I think i finally got what i was looking for
So excited


----------



## astrostar59

vapman said:


> As someone who worked in the vinyl industry until quite recently, there was a lot of stuff I quietly told people not to buy because I knew it was MP3's slapped onto a vinyl as cheap as possible. A lot of times we would get in newly pressed colored vinyl and well..... listening to it through a $6k stereo rig should make it sound quite nice, but everyone agreed we would probably have been better off listening to it from YouTube.
> 
> This is certainly not the case of all new vinyl releases. Just be cautious of what you get. It is especially problematic with reissues of stuff that hasn't been available anywhere except the same MP3 rips that have been floating around the net since Napster days.
> 
> OT but relevant to the recent discussion and would be very sad if any fellow listeners got stiffed on some crappy records pressed from MP3 masters.


 
  
 I find that hard to believe, not that I am saying you are making this up, maybe your source exaggerated it? It is costly to make Vinyl masters, and if the music on that vinyl was legal i.e. paying the artist / record label then why would they do such a stupid thing? Even Apple iTunes is supplied with high res files that they then reduce down to 192 MP3s.
  
 It is more plausible that the quality of the master pressing made on the machine that press the record is badly done, or the vinyl material is substandard and / or thin.
  
 If I was a musician no way would it make sense to supply MP3 files to the factory making those records. 
 Napster? Not relevant unless the records being made are indeed illegal.


----------



## jibzilla

astrostar59 said:


>


 
  
 It is very true. Not so much with new issue but re issue. Classic rock albums that are hard to get in mint condition. Sell for $30+ and sound like hammered doo doo.


----------



## vapman

astrostar59 said:


>


 

 You seem to miss the various points others and I had already covered.This is already OT and you can PM me if you have further concerns, but please see the posts by @jibzilla and the others who were following along in that discussion. The discussion was entirely surrounding *remasters and unauthorized/grey area re-presses of never reissued old records.*
  
 If you do not believe this is a practice that takes place in real life, please feel free to PM me as I can discuss this with boatloads of proof at length. The Stax thread is not the place for it.


----------



## astrostar59

vapman said:


> You seem to miss the various points others and I had already covered.This is already OT and you can PM me if you have further concerns, but please see the posts by @jibzilla and the others who were following along in that discussion. The discussion was entirely surrounding *remasters and unauthorized/grey area re-presses of never reissued old records.*
> 
> If you do not believe this is a practice that takes place in real life, please feel free to PM me as I can discuss this with boatloads of proof at length. The Stax thread is not the place for it.


 

 I am not saying this doesn't happen. What I find incredible is anyone would use an mp3 file when clearly AIFFs at the very least are available. Mp3s are recent technology, so why would thiose files be used to master a vinyl pressing? Unless out is an illegal pressing for sale like dodgy DVDs at the seaside type of thing. That is not the 'industry' it is one off guys doing something illegal.


----------



## hardpike

hi
 does anyone know the serial numbers approx of the lambda pro?
 mine is 14422 (nice number) does anyone know which year of production may be?


----------



## vapman

@astrostar59 OK I misunderstood your point. In a sense, everything you said is happening to some degree. By that I mean bootlegs made from master tape sources (close to the real thing as possible), bootlegs made from remasters intended for CD at 16/44.1 then put to vinyl, bootlegs from one vinyl to another (will introduct some form of degradation in the re-recording/re-plating process), but the worst we can all agree are the ones that are bootlegs made from MP3 masters. However we can safely assume the people who press MP3 to vinyl for remasters are either hopelessly ignorant of what they are doing, or scammers who couldn't care less what the vinyl sounds like. This group falls into the latter you mentioned, the equivalent of "dodgy DVDs at the seaside type of thing". That is certainly not the industry as a whole I agree, but more labels than one would expect engage in this sort of behavior. There was a release recently from an independent startup label who claimed to get the rights of a musician who self released a cassette in the early 90s. well it got rediscovered and somewhat popular again, and this label put the album out on vinyl. It wasn't until some hardcore cassette collectors got a copy of the vinyl, found it sounded not only worse than their cassettes but was the _wrong artist and album entirely!_ It turned out to be - of all things - _a YouTube rip pressed to vinyl._ Someone had uploaded the wrong cassette rip to youtube, and the vinyl is complete with all the YouTube lo-fi warbliness.
  
 then again that could get me on a whole different rant of youtubers filming their vinyls playing when their record players can't even keep a consistent speed.
  
 Anyway...
  
 On topic:  Stax 2170 owners: do you feel this model also shares the strangeness around 6k hertz the Lambda suffered from? I had two Lambdas and do not intend to get one with that same sound... i will save my money for a higher end model that is less similar to the Lambda.


----------



## astrostar59

vapman said:


> @astrostar59 OK I misunderstood your point. In a sense, everything you said is happening to some degree. By that I mean bootlegs made from master tape sources (close to the real thing as possible), bootlegs made from remasters intended for CD at 16/44.1 then put to vinyl, bootlegs from one vinyl to another (will introduct some form of degradation in the re-recording/re-plating process), but the worst we can all agree are the ones that are bootlegs made from MP3 masters. However we can safely assume the people who press MP3 to vinyl for remasters are either hopelessly ignorant of what they are doing, or scammers who couldn't care less what the vinyl sounds like. This group falls into the latter you mentioned, the equivalent of "dodgy DVDs at the seaside type of thing". That is certainly not the industry as a whole I agree, but more labels than one would expect engage in this sort of behavior. There was a release recently from an independent startup label who claimed to get the rights of a musician who self released a cassette in the early 90s. well it got rediscovered and somewhat popular again, and this label put the album out on vinyl. It wasn't until some hardcore cassette collectors got a copy of the vinyl, found it sounded not only worse than their cassettes but was the _wrong artist and album entirely!_ It turned out to be - of all things - _a YouTube rip pressed to vinyl._ Someone had uploaded the wrong cassette rip to youtube, and the vinyl is complete with all the YouTube lo-fi warbliness.
> 
> then again that could get me on a whole different rant of youtubers filming their vinyls playing when their record players can't even keep a consistent speed.


 

 Totally agree with all of above.
 On the Lambdas, I think many of the Lambda previous incarnations and some of the current 207/307407/507 HPs do have some of that legacy. I am sure of the strident 6K range, but I did get really fed up with the treble etch of my various Lamda models. The smoothest I found was the Lambda Nova Signature, but even that needed a smooth DAC or source.
  
 I would go for the new L700 (bit more like a scaled down 009) or the 007A. The 007A is super smooth and has great bass, a different animal altogether IMO.


----------



## vapman

The L700 will likely be the next on my shopping list. Cheers @astrostar59


----------



## yates7592

I would like to hear the L700. Never read a bad word about it. Seems to be 90% of SR009 for a third of the price.


----------



## LaCuffia

I currently have the 404 Limited Edition, and I can only compare it to the 2170 that I had - the 404 LE is much smoother and forgiving and a bit more weight in the mid-range.  I can't compare it to other Lambdas, but from what I read the 404 LE has very good reputation.   I would still like to try the L700 at some point too, but not sure how much of an upgrade it would be to the 404 LE.   I might just jump to the Omega series.  The 007A is intriguing but I don't have the right driver for it now.  The 404 LE pairs nicely with the SRM-T1.   It's been said that the 007 is power hungry and that the T1 wouldn't do it justice.   But then again it can't be all that bad since Stax used the T1 as the reference driver for many years (until the T2 was developed).


----------



## jibzilla

lacuffia said:


> I currently have the 404 Limited Edition, and I can only compare it to the 2170 that I had - the 404 LE is much smoother and forgiving and a bit more weight in the mid-range.  I can't compare it to other Lambdas, but from what I read the 404 LE has very good reputation.   I would still like to try the L700 at some point too, but not sure how much of an upgrade it would be to the 404 LE.   I might just jump to the Omega series.  The 007A is intriguing but I don't have the right driver for it now.  The 404 LE pairs nicely with the SRM-T1.   It's been said that the 007 is power hungry and that the T1 wouldn't do it justice.   But then again it can't be all that bad since Stax used the T1 as the reference driver for many years (until the T2 was developed).


 
  
 The 404LE and airbow sr-sc-11 were much better performers than the 407 and 507 for me. Should not have sold the airbow's.


----------



## vapman

The Airbow is a non-Stax made Electrostatic, correct? or is it a modified stax?


----------



## Michgelsen

vapman said:


> On topic:  Stax 2170 owners: do you feel this model also shares the strangeness around 6k hertz the Lambda suffered from? I had two Lambdas and do not intend to get one with that same sound... i will save my money for a higher end model that is less similar to the Lambda.


 
  
 No, the 207 doesn't suffer from the 6kHz 'etch' at all. I have a 207 here right now.


----------



## hardpike

vapman said:


> The Airbow is a non-Stax made Electrostatic, correct? or is it a modified stax?



Modified one


----------



## zolkis

Modified mainly by cryogenic treatment AFAIK, which is kind of debatable thing. In principle that would help to obtain a material structure where the internal tension distribution is more even (IOW it "calms down" or "settles" materials faster).
  
 However, I think the effect is less on the membrane than on the housing. The Stax diaphragms don't seem to "break in" too much over time, even over very long time. I suspect cryogenic treatments change the supporting structures more, especially when they are from plastic. I guess we will not see an Airbowed 007 or 009 any time soon. Just speculating, as usual.
  
 But if the assumption is valid, my question is what is an optimal housing for an e-stat driver. A thick and heavy machined aluminium housing like with the 009? Or a wooden frame? (I'd bet yes). I speculate that thin metal housing is the worst (looking at you, 007), and even well chosen plastic housing is better than that. Of course metal is better for perceived value.


----------



## mulveling

zolkis said:


> But if the assumption is valid, my question is what is an optimal housing for an e-stat driver. A thick and heavy machined aluminium housing like with the 009? Or a wooden frame? (I'd bet yes). I speculate that thin metal housing is the worst (looking at you, 007), and even well chosen plastic housing is better than that. Of course metal is better for perceived value.


 
 Given the gear I've experienced, I wouldn't think wood is the best choice for top-class gear, whether electostatic headphones or speakers. It's not a terrible choice, and probably better than plastic. But I get the impression that massive, rigid aluminum housings are better than wood or plastic. Of course that's assuming the stuff inside is at a comparable level.
  
 I prefer 009 over he90 and 007. The 009 is also better than L700 with similar drivers but aluminum vs. plastic housing. Preferred Qualia 010 over R10 (carbon fiber and other stuff vs. wood). Grado HP1000 over RS-1...by a lot (Grados won't ever be top-class though, lol). I also really like what I've heard from Magico S-series speakers (extruded aluminum), though I still prefer Tannoys (birch plywood) for their special drivers. Let's not even get into those terrible wooden cup mods for Sennheiser HD650 back in the day (yes I know the issue there was that they made an open headphone closed, but still). Then we could get into cartridges, where I prefer the Koetsu stone bodies over the Rosewood Platinum. All-in-all, a rigid chunk of aluminum seems to be pretty awesome. 
  
 And I haven't experienced notable break-in effects with any of the 3 new Stax headphones from Japan. I definitely wouldn't be interested in having Stax cryo-treated.


----------



## karlgerman

mulveling said:


> And I haven't experienced notable break-in effects...


 
 007 MKII -- really audible effect after some time
 009 no.1  -- no break-in effect
 009 no.2 -- no break-in effect
  
 ... to my ears!


----------



## LaCuffia

What would give the most dramatic change in sound signature: going from a 404 LE to a 007 MKII or to a 009?   Just curious for those who know what a 404 LE would sound most similar to...


----------



## karlgerman

have the 4040 signature + srm 006tII-- and a 007 MKII and 009 now on BHSE.
 As the 009 was brand new on market my amp still was the 006mkII and that 009 was a dramatic change in over all sound quality.
 Upgrade to a d-02 DAC and a BHSE improved the system too but the 009 was the key component imo.


----------



## LaCuffia

I currently have a SRM-T1, and I hear that the 006t is similar.   So I wonder whether the 009 would sound good with the T1 until I can afford a better and newer driver.


----------



## PATB

Is the L700 more comfortable than the SR-009? 
  
 I am thinking of getting a second stax and am torn between the L700 and SR-007 MK2.  I had the SR-007 MK1 and although I liked the sound, I did not find it comfortable for long listening sessions (> 60 minutes).  It is kind of hard to know how comfortable the L700 is on audition, as I will need at least a full CD to decide!


----------



## zolkis

patb said:


> Is the L700 more comfortable than the SR-009?


 
   
 No way that I can imagine, but read on.
  
 Quote:


> I am thinking of getting a second stax and am torn between the L700 and SR-007 MK2.  I had the SR-007 MK1 and although I liked the sound, I did not find it comfortable for long listening sessions (> 60 minutes).  It is kind of hard to know how comfortable the L700 is on audition, as I will need at least a full CD to decide!


 
  
 It's hard to give advice as this may be very personal. What was uncomfortable with the 007? Some people complained for the leather head-strap was pressing too much. For me the 007 Mk1 is the most comfortable Stax (light and comfortable), followed by the 009 (heavy and comfortable).
  
 However, the L700 is light and comfortable enough for me, and more so than other Lambdas.


----------



## LaCuffia

I don't have the L700 but I know they have different pad design than prior Lambda models.  They also have the click system for the head strap, so there is more stability.  Even with my 404LE I find that the head strap starts to slide upward over time even wearing for an hour or so.  I find myself having to adjust the position of the ear cups (or squares) often.


----------



## PATB

zolkis said:


> It's hard to give advice as this may be very personal. What was uncomfortable with the 007? Some people complained for the leather head-strap was pressing too much. For me the 007 Mk1 is the most comfortable Stax (light and comfortable), followed by the 009 (heavy and comfortable).
> 
> However, the L700 is light and comfortable enough for me, and more so than other Lambdas.


 
  
 My ears would get hot rather easily, and the pads themselves feel abrasive after a while.  So I sold them about 10+ years ago.
  
 The SR-009 is much better; I find the weight just right and the pads feel luxurious.  However, the clamping force/vacuum feel starts to get irritating after about 45 minutes.  I am hoping that the L700 would have deeper ear cups and less vacuum force.  Like I said, kind of hard to tell from an audition because I would need at least an hour to get a feel for this (the SR-009/007 feel great for about 30 minutes).


----------



## Blackmore

As everything, this is also a very personal matter, but, if you like Stax signature, own Lambda, any, than buying L700 is safest move, especially, when you stick with lower gain tube Stax amps, because they are easy to drive as well, but not only, they simply not demanding that extra power to get controled, where 007 dont sound good at all with such amps, they clearly need that extra power, most probably from SS based amp, as they are warmish / bloomy and not going to open up, untill you power them enough.
 I spend enough time with SRM 600LE amp, 404LE, 007MK2 and L700 all together and 007 got less, almost none, use time from 3.
  
 Personally, I ended up with SRM 600LE and L700, wish I could jump on KGST right away, but even used, its not cheap, plus, this amp limited to XLR connections only and dont offer 2 output for ear speakers as Stax amps do. Have no idea why not, as you pay pretty premium price for such DIY amps, but thats a question for another thread, I guess.


----------



## LaCuffia

Blackmore, got the 404 LE based in part on your recommendation and they are fantastic.   Detailed but not harsh.  Just right.


----------



## zolkis

patb said:


> The SR-009 is much better; I find the weight just right and the pads feel luxurious.  However, the clamping force/vacuum feel starts to get irritating after about 45 minutes.  I am hoping that the L700 would have deeper ear cups and less vacuum force.  Like I said, kind of hard to tell from an audition because I would need at least an hour to get a feel for this (the SR-009/007 feel great for about 30 minutes).


 
  
 Yes, the 009 has a good seal and higher clamping force. The L700 is not as deep but has less vacuum force for sure, and lesser seal as well, at least on my head. It's the most comfortable Lambda by quite large margin, but it still feels like wearing a Lambda, for the form factor.
  
 The 007 head band is completely customizable for clamp, angle, etc for a perfect seal, I love that - but it's ringing (which is another discussion).


----------



## jibzilla

zolkis said:


> Modified mainly by cryogenic treatment AFAIK, which is kind of debatable thing. In principle that would help to obtain a material structure where the internal tension distribution is more even (IOW it "calms down" or "settles" materials faster).
> 
> However, I think the effect is less on the membrane than on the housing. The Stax diaphragms don't seem to "break in" too much over time, even over very long time. I suspect cryogenic treatments change the supporting structures more, especially when they are from plastic. I guess we will not see an Airbowed 007 or 009 any time soon. Just speculating, as usual.
> 
> But if the assumption is valid, my question is what is an optimal housing for an e-stat driver. A thick and heavy machined aluminium housing like with the 009? Or a wooden frame? (I'd bet yes). I speculate that thin metal housing is the worst (looking at you, 007), and even well chosen plastic housing is better than that. Of course metal is better for perceived value.


 
  
 Spritzer got ahold of one of these and said the cryo treatment was a gimmick. That these are 407/507 drivers stretched by stax and that it is a black art of e-stat drivers. Why they did not decide to put them in the 407/507 I will never know cause the airbow's and 404LE sounded much better to my ears.


----------



## Blackmore

Then I dont see any reason why wouldn't you think the same about L700.
  
 Quote:


lacuffia said:


> Blackmore, got the 404 LE based in part on your recommendation and they are fantastic.   Detailed but not harsh.  Just right.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Why doesn't anyone other than Stax make popular electrostatic headphones?


----------



## Jones Bob

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Why doesn't anyone other than Stax make popular electrostatic headphones?




You mean like Koss?:rolleyes:


----------



## Arthrumus

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Why doesn't anyone other than Stax make popular electrostatic headphones?


 
 Koss makes what is probably the second most common electrostat in the form of the ESP950. This market is a really small niche within a niche. It probably doesn't make marketing sense for anyone else to really try to compete in the e-stat headphone game. That's probably why the only other major electrostatics you ever see are ludicrously priced statement products from the likes of Sennheiser, (and maybe Hifiman now?) they can't actually compete with Stax in this market so they don't even try.


----------



## paradoxper

They try, they fail. MrSpeakers is doing something.


----------



## jibzilla

The Utopia had a stat like sound when I listened to it. The most stat like headphone I have listened to that isn't a stat.


----------



## Spork67

Finally heard back from the electronics repair shop today.
 Apparently they have ordered a new set of control transistors for my SRM1 MK2 amp.
 Any ballpark estimates how much these should cost me?


----------



## Tinkerer

blackmore said:


> I could jump on KGST right away, but even used, its not cheap, plus, this amp limited to XLR connections only and dont offer 2 output for ear speakers as Stax amps do. Have no idea why not, as you pay pretty premium price for such DIY amps, but thats a question for another thread, I guess.


 
  
 That's entirely decided by the builder. All KG amps can run RCA by having a switch that grounds the - to chassis when you want to switch from XLR. I have both on my KGSSHV. You can also put as many headphone outputs as you want. You just have to loop the output and bias across all of them. Most people have one or two, or one normal bias and one probias.


spork67 said:


> Finally heard back from the electronics repair shop today.
> Apparently they have ordered a new set of control transistors for my SRM1 MK2 amp.
> Any ballpark estimates how much these should cost me?


 

 Probably less than $10 apiece for probably 4 of them. Electronic repair costs are all in hunting down the problem and the labor. Parts outside some super high end stuff are dirt cheap.


----------



## zolkis

jibzilla said:


> The Utopia had a stat like sound when I listened to it. The most stat like headphone I have listened to that isn't a stat.


 
  
 I guess I need to hear the Utopia now . Slightly OT, I am sure it is good, and don't doubt the state of the art beryllium driver can compete in many respects with state of the art e-stat, I have my doubts whether they are better overall, and the Utopia forum reinforces these doubts. I used to have the legendary Yamaha NS1000M monitors with beryllium mids and highs, and modded the crossover, cabinet and woofer to make it even (quite much) better, and I know what you mean by being e-stat like. Beryllium domes sound clean, dynamic and crisp, but you can still hear that the membrane has less internal damping than say good soft domes or e-stats, even though these are the best metallic domes possible to make. Good e-stats sound different (though they have their own compromises, for instance I liked Quads and meh'd Martin Logans which lose on resolution even compared to a Dunlavy).
  
 I am sure there are fine lines where one could say this is enough e-stat like sound but it's more dynamic (or replace it with your favorite characteristic), then someone gets to the Utopia which is completely fine (and probably a better total cost of ownership than with a Stax 009 + BHSE or Carbon).


----------



## bmichels

jibzilla said:


> The Utopia had a stat like sound when I listened to it. The most stat like headphone I have listened to that isn't a stat.


 
  
 Agree.  I already stated the same here where I wrote ".... Almost a mini-Stax"    (I own BHSE + SR009, and Utopia reminded me my Electrostatic home set-up)


----------



## JimL11

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Why doesn't anyone other than Stax make popular electrostatic headphones?


 
 Completely different technology.  Consider this:  until recently, the speaker market was much bigger than the headphone market.  How many electrostatic speaker manufacturers were there, other than QUAD?  For decades they were basically the only one.  Sure, there was Acoustat in the 70s and 80s, and currently Martin Logan, SoundLab and a couple others.  In the meanwhile, how many cone speaker manufacturers were there?  It's always been a niche market, for speakers and for headphones.  Koss has been making electrostatic headphones for decades also.  HiFiMan and Mr Speakers are woking on them, but its a similar story to speakers.  A lot more dynamic headphones [cone speakers] than stats.


----------



## bmichels

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Why doesn't anyone other than Stax make popular electrostatic headphones?


 
 Mr. speaker is working on an Electrostatic headphone that will be compatible with all Amplifiers for Stax headphones.  
  
 As a matter of fact they use a BHSE to test/develop their Electrostatic Headphone.


----------



## mulveling

There are a lot of challenges to developing a good 'stat, which is why a lot of us old timers are *extremely* skeptical of the upcoming Mr. Speakers Ether-E -- though he does have a good reputation thus far, and seems to make some nice planar headphones (I'd actually like to hear an Ether Flow, and will get the opportunity soon). With e-stat headphone attempts from other companies besides Stax/Sennheiser/Koss, quality and reliability have reportedly been extremely poor. A few years of "hey this is neat" development are going to have a tough time against the decades of electrostatic design & manufacturing expertise from these other companies. 
  
 We don't want "me too" electrostat products that just chip away from the small niche Stax market (which Stax can barely survive on as is), and also turn off newbies to electrostats once they hit the issues with sound/quality/reliability/amping.
  
 And I've heard the "this dynamic headphone sounds like an e-stat" talk before, way back in 2004-ish with the Sony Qualia 010. I owned them for myself a while. The treble quality and speed of the Qualia was actually up there with top e-stats. They were also pretty dynamic, with very good bass, if you got a good seal -- which was harder than you might imagine, especially if you didn't have a "Small" size headband. However the midrange of top Stax headphones (w/ top amp) is much better than that of the Qualia -- Stax are much more natural here.
  
 The Sennheiser HD800 looked like a poor-man's clone of the Qualia, and kind of sounds like it too. Now again it seems some of the design elements of the Qualia have inspired the new Focal Utopia (though it's a far less blatant ripoff than the HD800 was).


----------



## LaCuffia

http://www.techinsider.io/sharkk-bravo-headphones-review-2016-7/#these-are-the-bravo-electrostatic-headphones-made-by-a-company-called-sharkk-1
  
 This company is trying to put out an affordable e-stat....it's sort of a hybrid, using standard connectors and can be used with most amps.
  
 I am curious but not to the point of really wanting to buy one despite the price tag.


----------



## comzee

mulveling said:


> The Sennheiser HD800 looked like a poor-man's clone of the Qualia, and kind of sounds like it too.


 
 Interesting. I owned an 009/Carbon for 10 months, put a good 500hr+ of listening into that. Was using Yggy / Master7 as a source.
 I sold that kit because hd800 sounded quite a bit better to me. 
  
 Although, @3X0 bought the kit from me, saying DIY-T2 "two leagues above" Carbon. I'm completely inclined to believe him, because Carbon/009 could not match what my HD800 was doing, not even really close to it. If I would have to invest in something like DIY-T2 to get better performance from 009/007 over hd800, forget that.


----------



## purk

comzee said:


> Interesting. I owned an 009/Carbon for 10 months, put a good 500hr+ of listening into that. Was using Yggy / Master7 as a source.
> I sold that kit because hd800 sounded quite a bit better to me.
> 
> Although, @3X0 bought the kit from me, saying DIY-T2 "two leagues above" Carbon. I'm completely inclined to believe him, because Carbon/009 could not match what my HD800 was doing, not even really close to it. If I would have to invest in something like DIY-T2 to get better performance from 009/007 over hd800, forget that.


 
 Out of what amp on the HD800?  My HD800 can't touch my carbon + SR009 setup.  Are you value sense of soundstage above all else to rate the HD800 as being better.


----------



## purk

bmichels said:


> Mr. speaker is working on an Electrostatic headphone that will be compatible with all Amplifiers for Stax headphones.
> 
> As a matter of fact they use a BHSE to test/develop their Electrostatic Headphone.


 
 I hope they are improving the Ether Stats by leap and bound.  During the Canlanta Meet, the Ether Stats was a lot more difficult to drive than both the SR009/SR007 out of the BHSE.  You have to crank the volume on the BHSE 30% more to get the same listening level.


----------



## comzee

purk said:


> Out of what amp on the HD800?  My HD800 can't touch my carbon + SR009 setup.  Are you value sense of soundstage above all else to rate the HD800 as being better.


 
 The 009 for me always had better 3d positional sound. Instruments and vocals were placed either wider apart, or closer in depending on the recording. It had a greater breadth of how it could place sounds in 3d space.
 That is why it always surprises me when people say hd800's one thing over 009 is soundstage.... It might be I don't know what "soundstage" is tho.
  
 Of course, the Carbon amp is known to give great soundstage for Stax, maybe if I had the hd800 on a $5000 amp it would beat the 009 in soundstage?
  
 For me the hd800 killed the 009 in microdetails. I'm not big into stuff like that, because you have to reaaallly be listening to the music closely to hear stuff like that. I'm more about enjoyment from listening to music, not listening to music like a college lecture trying to pick stuff out.
  
 With that said, the clarity, raw resolution, and transparency of the hd800 were so much greater, I decided to sell the Carbon/009.
  
 The current amp I'm using with hd800 is the Taurus mkii.
  
  
 EDIT: As always YMMV. As is obvious from the post right underneath mine.
 I just see so many posts definitively saying Stax TOTL is world TOTL for headphones. I dropped $10k into that bucket, and came out objectively enjoying hd800 more.
 Lotta group think in this this thread, which is fine, it's Stax thread. Why would anybody trash their $5k+ rig lol.


----------



## nemomec

I heard and have owned in the last years so many Sennheiser HD-800 on different average and very expensive setups and i can´t understand why people rate this headphone so high? For sure the HD-800 is a modern looking and comfy headphone with a overall good performance but a 25 years old Stax Lambda sounds more natural to me. The soundstage of the HD-800 are unrealistic with wide but not deep presentation, mids are a little bit diffuse and highs are very technical. I like Sennheiser they e-stats HE-60 and HE-90 are excellent, also the HD-600 is in his price range an good headphone but the HD-800 was ever disappointment for me. Now i use 90 percent of listening time a Stax SR-009 and i haven´t heard for me a better headphone up today by a huge margin. The Focal Utopia looks interesting for me but for the right decision to spend the high price it must be compared with a serios SR-007 or SR-009 setup.


----------



## nemomec

comzee said:


> EDIT: As always YMMV. As is obvious from the post right underneath mine.
> I just see so many posts definitively saying Stax TOTL is world TOTL for headphones. I dropped $10k into that bucket, and came out objectively enjoying hd800 more.
> Lotta group think in this this thread, which is fine, it's Stax thread. Why would anybody trash their $5k+ rig lol.


 
  
 It´s your experience if you enjoying the HD-800 more than the SR-009 that is ok, why not, e-stats not for everyone. I have only said that i can´t understand this from my view, i prefer a natural presentation of music and not a technical. Everybody has also a different definition of a TOTL headphones, some think the HD-650 is this, some the HD-800 and some a e-stat setup.


----------



## purk

@comzee
  
 I'm also a lover of the HD800 and I can see why you like it so much.  Still, I simply enjoy the natural tone of SR009 more.  We can agree that it is just a matter of preference.  Hell, my bank account seriously want to prefer the HD800 too but my ears said no.  Imagine all the money I would have saved.


----------



## paradoxper

comzee said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 A difference in opinion does not constitute group think. WE just know WE hear better than you and that's perfectly ok.


----------



## comzee

purk said:


> @comzee
> 
> I'm also a lover of the HD800 and I can see why you like it so much.  Still, I simply enjoy the natural tone of SR009 more.  We can agree that it is just a matter of preference.  Hell, my bank account seriously want to prefer the HD800 too but my ears said no.  Imagine all the money I would have saved.


 
  
 I'll add to this, and say I own the SRS002 kit. I absolutely adore that system. I'm fortunate enough that the sr002 fits comfortably in my ear. Getting a complete air seal is also uber important.
 I love Stax, not saying they're bad. In fact, if Stax wasn't so horrid in terms of price v.s. performance, I would love to buy a KGST / L700 kit.


----------



## sensui123

Love love and love the HD800 (In fact I find it weird I decided to only keep the HD800 and HD650 after all the spending on Audeze and Hifiman) with my previous Stratus.....but after listening to the SR-009+Carbon....I cannot go back.  But it is IMO a stronger pick than most people realize chasing the latest and greatest when properly matched with the correct amp.


----------



## mulveling

comzee said:


> The 009 for me always had better 3d positional sound. Instruments and vocals were placed either wider apart, or closer in depending on the recording. It had a greater breadth of how it could place sounds in 3d space.
> That is why it always surprises me when people say hd800's one thing over 009 is soundstage.... It might be I don't know what "soundstage" is tho.
> 
> Of course, the Carbon amp is known to give great soundstage for Stax, maybe if I had the hd800 on a $5000 amp it would beat the 009 in soundstage?
> ...


 
 If you had the Carbon w/ 009 and preferred the HD800, then honestly yes it's fair to give up on the 009. I do think the DIY T2 is maybe even a couple levels above the Carbon overall, but the soundstage of 009 w/ Carbon is very close to as good as it gets with that headphone. It looks like you just simply prefer the HD800, and hold soundstage size & imaging as one of your biggest priorities. Myself, I easily preferred 009 with a plain KGSShv (and the Carbon is a level up from this) over the HD800 on even some of the best amps (GS-X Mk 2, Balanced SuSY Dynahi, SDS XLR, etc), so the equation for you is just plain different. Totally disagree with you on the transparency/resolution of 009 vs. HD800, and I do not like the HD800's treble presentation, dislike its midrange, etc -- we just hear really different 
  
 Also the HD800 is a crappy looking copy of the Qualia 010


----------



## yates7592

Yes at this level it's down to each persons quirky ears. I sold my HD800 with Wells Headtrip amp and DHC Spore cables to fund SR009 & Carbon. Even out of a SMK007MK2 amp my impression was the Stax was in another league to HD800.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Please no sterile HD800 vs SR-009 stuff. I'm a Stax zealot, but they are more different than superior / inferior to each other.
  
 Ali


----------



## comzee

mulveling said:


> and hold soundstage size & imaging as one of your biggest priorities.


 
 Hmm, did you read my post? I said Carbon/009 for me had much better soundstage and imaging, while hd800 for me had better raw resolution and transparency....


----------



## bearFNF

I like both,for different reasons. For me it comes down to want I want during a given listening session. Match the system to my mood and all that.

I do find myself listening to the BHSE/ 009's more often. That might shift a bit once my LAu gets here, though. We shall see. That is part of the fun.


----------



## zolkis

Sure, the HD800 beats the big Stax on the value and portability, but although I like the HD800 for certain music types, I find even a Stax 207 better for my taste, and it can't even compete with my [modded] 007 and the 009. I guess I am a Stax guy. The Utopia might hit a sweet spot for dynamic vs e-stats, even though it's too expensive. The question is, will its midrange beat the Stax, that is to be seen, let's see when can I put my hands on them.
  
 However, I have found most interesting that someone actually prefers the HD800 to a top 009 setup. That is a good reminder on how subjective this hobby is, and how different people are. I would almost say this casts a heavy shadow over trusting reviews on this forum, since you can't rely on other peoples' opinion too much, it's a MUST to listen to stuff yourself.


----------



## mulveling

comzee said:


> Hmm, did you read my post? I said Carbon/009 for me had much better soundstage and imaging, while hd800 for me had better raw resolution and transparency....


 
 My bad, didn't see all of your subsequent posts before I replied. I can confirm that the Carbon's soundstage is its strongest point. And amping definitely does influence soundstage of the HD800 -- it was absolutely huge with the SDS XLR. 
  
 You gave it a good go with the 009/Carbon, and if you still prefer HD800 w/ SS amp then I don't see even a DIY T2 changing your mind.


----------



## 3X0

After spending some quality time with the 009 I think I'd prefer the HD 800 as well. The 009 doesn't seem very resolving (even my modest uncompensated, untreated nearfield speakers seem superior) although it does manage to sound quite clear. The Omega is superior in resolution although it doesn't sound quite as forward or clean. TBH to me 009:Omega is reminiscent of [decent Sabre DAC]:Yggdrasil, though of course more markedly distinguishable.

Hoping to round out my understanding via ownership of a recent-production 007. FWIW I prefer the 007Mk1 over the 009 on HeadAmp's rig every time.


----------



## comzee

mulveling said:


> You gave it a good go with the 009/Carbon, and if you still prefer HD800 w/ SS amp then I don't see even a DIY T2 changing your mind.


 
 Also, to be fair, it was an a/b scenario for me. The 009 were mind blowing, just as the hd800 are for me. If I was a richer man, I would have kept both for sure.
 I think owning both is a great idea. If there's ever a time where I don't have to spend around $5k for a kgst+l700 kit, I would gladly get back into Stax.


----------



## bmichels

Guys, something strange happen to me since I have my BHSE + Stax 009: Often *after listening to BHSE/SR009, I have my ears ringing for many hours*. And I do NOT listen louder with the STAX than with my Orthos headphone which do not produce this ringing phenomenon !??
  
 —> Do you think it can be caused by some brightness in the SR009 to which I may be extra sensitive ? have other people experienced such thing ?  will I adapt with time or should I consider may be a SR007 instead or use a warmer DAC or....???  
 --> or... can it be caused instead by some electromagnetic radiation generated by the SR009 that I am very sensitive to (there are hundreds of volts in those ear cups !) ?


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

I don't understand the argument: HD800 (insert X dynamic or planar TOTL open headphone here if you want) is portable and Stax no.
 I mean, HD800 needs an amplifier too, and usually a tube one (let's say Apex Teton for example) to give maximum performance and kill the 6khz treble peak (that is what hundreds of pages in the HD800 thread say)...is a full sized tube amp like Apex Teton portable?...mmm I don't think it fits in my pocket.
 I mean, any TOTL dynamic or planar open headphone system is equally portable than a big Stax system.
  
 Or the argument: Stax is very expensive compared to other headphones...really? Do the math:
  
 Mega HD800 system:
 - HD800 (*1k*) > Apex Pinnacle (*10k* and maybe the best amp for HD800) > Metrum Pavane DAC (*5k*, we don't want a harsh digital source with our beautiful headphones): *16k usd*
 Oh, don't forget to do the Anax mod (5usd and totally voiding warranty, so no more warranty for you, mega HD800 owner) and a balanced 3 pin XLR cable, hardwired to get the best results, like the Stefan Audioart cable mod (*1179usd*, 799 for the 7ft cable and 379 for hand labor). You can be fancy and put some NOS tubes in the Apex Pinnacle too. Don't forget to EQ the headphone if you want too.
  
 Total cost of Mega HD800 killer system: *17,179usd*.
  
 Top Stax system:
  
 - SR-007A (*2K*) > KGSSHV Carbon (*5k* and maybe the best amp for SR-007) > Metrum Pavane DAC (*5k*, we don't want a harsh digital source with our beautiful headphones): *12k*
 If you want, you can fill the bass ports with blue tak, and it will sound equal to the MK1 version, of course you'll void warranty, but you'll not have warranty if you bought it from Japan and live in another country, and...that's all.
  
 Total cost of Top Stax system: *12,000usd*
  
 HD800 is good for the money...but harsh, thin etc...oh I will make it sound good (throws *16k usd* and losses warranty lol)


----------



## mulveling

comzee said:


> Also, to be fair, it was an a/b scenario for me. The 009 were mind blowing, just as the hd800 are for me. If I was a richer man, I would have kept both for sure.
> I think owning both is a great idea. If there's ever a time where I don't have to spend around $5k for a kgst+l700 kit, I would gladly get back into Stax.


 
 The L700+KGST is indeed a nice combo (one which I'll choose over any HD800 system, *jab jab* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), but you definitely shouldn't be paying $3K for a KGST -- not worth it, and it's definitely NOT like a mini BHSE. Check the FS forums for KGST units from less icy builders; that system should cost you 1.2-1.4K + ~1.8K = 3.2K max; maybe less.


----------



## bearFNF

bmichels said:


> Guys, something strange happen to me since I have my BHSE + Stax 009: Often *after listening to BHSE/SR009, I have my ears ringing for many hours*. And I do NOT listen louder with the STAX than with my Orthos headphone which do not produce this ringing phenomenon !??
> 
> —> Do you think it can be caused by some brightness in the SR009 to which I may be extra sensitive ? have other people experienced such thing ?  will I adapt with time or should I consider may be a SR007 instead or use a warmer DAC or....???
> --> or... can it be caused instead by some electromagnetic radiation generated by the SR009 that I am very sensitive to (there are hundreds of volts in those ear cups !) ?



Experienced some of that ringing also I think it's because I was listening louder than a typically did when I first got my system or I needed to turn it down because of how well this system synergizes. 
The same thing happened when I had the liquid gold on loan at first until I realized I was listening way too loud. Once I backed off the volume then it was just fine. I was also doing Marathon listening when I had the liquid gold and the BHSE 009. When i was doing comparisons, I found taking a break helped.


----------



## mulveling

bmichels said:


> Guys, something strange happen to me since I have my BHSE + Stax 009: Often *after listening to BHSE/SR009, I have my ears ringing for many hours*. And I do NOT listen louder with the STAX than with my Orthos headphone which do not produce this ringing phenomenon !??


 
 Have you chucked the Russian EL34 yet? When I ran through various EL34 tubes on speaker amps (years ago), the Russians were by far the worst offenders for treble issues and fatigue.
  
 I've found the 009 to be a far easier listen for long sessions than any dynamic headphone (yes including the HD650, and it's not even close). But yes, the BHSE is on the slightly aggressive side as far as 009 amp pairings go, even with the Holland xf5 I'm running. This hasn't bothered me now in a couple of weeks of some very long listening sessions (with lots of hard rock and metal included), as the overall sound quality is just spectacular. I definitely prefer the BHSE to my Carbon now, though the latter is slightly less aggressive.


----------



## martyn73

Please can anyone advise how to alleviate discomfort I'm experiencing with my SR-007A's ear pads? My ears are quite small and flat yet I feel contact and pressure with the mesh and sides of the ear pads despite rotating the ear pads so that the inner D shape aligns with my ears. This is distracting unfortunately, so any help would be appreciated.
  
 I've read the mod here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/754839/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods but is there an equivalent mod for the SR-007A/MkII? Alternatively, is there an another ear pad which is deeper and can be converted to fit the SR-007A? The Ether pads I saw at CanJam look comfortable.
  
 Thanks,
  
 Martyn


----------



## HemiSam

The Ether estat I heard at the Houston meet out of my KGSSHV Carbon (450v mA 20 rig fed by an Ygg) was unimpressive, although it is only fair to note it was a pre-production unit.  I had to CRANK the amp up and if you happened to be standing next to someone listening to the headphones, you'd be blown away by how loud they sound.  Definitely not friendly for anyone that listens with others in the room.  They've got a lot of work to do.
  
 HS


----------



## joseph69

bmichels said:


> Guys, something strange happen to me since I have my BHSE + Stax 009: Often *after listening to BHSE/SR009, I have my ears ringing for many hours*. And I do NOT listen louder with the STAX than with my Orthos headphone which do not produce this ringing phenomenon !??


 
 This is exactly what happened to me with my first pair of 009's paired with a KGSSHV which is why I sold them both…and my other HP's are Grado's which most find very sibilant, but I do not and have never had ringing in my ears from them. But I needed/wanted to hear the 009's again which lead me to re-purchase them and a KGST which for me was much better with the tube output and didn't cause any ringing in my ears at all. Which is also the reason I purchased the BHSE (waiting for arrival) and a quad matched set of NOS Amperex EL34's from the late '50s (which someone else has mentioned). I've also recently purchased the 007Mk2 from Justin incase I prefer them to the 009 with the BHSE…or enjoy both.


----------



## PATB

martyn73 said:


> Please can anyone advise how to alleviate discomfort I'm experiencing with my SR-007A's ear pads? My ears are quite small and flat yet I feel contact and pressure with the mesh and sides of the ear pads despite rotating the ear pads so that the inner D shape aligns with my ears. This is distracting unfortunately, so any help would be appreciated.
> 
> I've read the mod here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/754839/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods but is there an equivalent mod for the SR-007A/MkII? Alternatively, is there an another ear pad which is deeper and can be converted to fit the SR-007A? The Ether pads I saw at CanJam look comfortable.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is the main reason I sold my SR-007 MK1 years ago.


----------



## mulveling

joseph69 said:


> This is exactly what happened to me with my first pair of 009's paired with a KGSSHV which is why I sold them both…and my other HP's are Grado's which most find very sibilant, but I do not and have never had ringing in my ears from them. But I needed/wanted to hear the 009's again which lead me to re-purchase them and a KGST which for me was much better with the tube output and didn't cause any ringing in my ears at all. Which is also the reason I purchased the BHSE (waiting for arrival) and a quad matched set of NOS Amperex EL34's from the late '50s (which someone else has mentioned). I've also recently purchased the 007Mk2 from Justin incase I prefer them to the 009 with the BHSE…or enjoy both.


 
 The BHSE will be notably more aggressive than the KGST -- but it'll also be WAY better overall. There's no comparison. It'll be interesting to see which Stax headphone you prefer there; it may well be the 007 (I strongly prefer the 009).


----------



## martyn73

patb said:


> This is the main reason I sold my SR-007 MK1 years ago.


 
 The SR-009 may be an option, but it won't suit my tinnitus.


----------



## PATB

martyn73 said:


> The SR-009 may be an option, but it won't suit my tinnitus.


 
  
 I have the same problem as you, so am also looking for a Stax I can live with.  I am so in love with the sound of SR-007 and SR-009, but the fit needs work.  The SR-009 doesn't have the pad issue, but has an irritating clamping force. 
  
 I am thinking the L700 may be the ticket, so am looking to audition one.


----------



## martyn73

patb said:


> I have the same problem as you, so am also looking for a Stax I can live with.  I am so in love with the sound of SR-007 and SR-009, but the fit needs work.  The SR-009 doesn't have the pad issue, but has an irritating clamping force.
> 
> I am thinking the L700 may be the ticket, so am looking to audition one.


 
 I had the L700 and hated its (to me) harsh treble and thin sound. I much prefer the SR-007A but the ear pads need to be much thicker; I let a member of my family try them and could see an impression left by the ear pads. The only other alternative would be the L500 which I had and misguidedly returned to get the L700. Lesson learned. I have the SRM-727II which I know from experience is not a good match for the Lambda headphones and emphasises treble to unpleasant proportions.


----------



## joseph69

mulveling said:


> The BHSE will be notably more aggressive than the KGST -- but it'll also be WAY better overall. There's no comparison. It'll be interesting to see which Stax headphone you prefer there; it may well be the 007 (I strongly prefer the 009).


 
 I won't mind the aggression, but sibilance would be an issue for me.
 It will be interesting which I prefer between the two...cant wait!


----------



## loligagger

Been quite a while since I've posted an amp I've built here, so here's a carbon I've finished recently.


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## bosiemoncrieff

martyn73 said:


> Please can anyone advise how to alleviate discomfort I'm experiencing with my SR-007A's ear pads? My ears are quite small and flat yet I feel contact and pressure with the mesh and sides of the ear pads despite rotating the ear pads so that the inner D shape aligns with my ears. This is distracting unfortunately, so any help would be appreciated.
> 
> I've read the mod here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/754839/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods but is there an equivalent mod for the SR-007A/MkII? Alternatively, is there an another ear pad which is deeper and can be converted to fit the SR-007A? The Ether pads I saw at CanJam look comfortable.
> 
> ...


 

 Vegan pads?


----------



## JimL11

martyn73 said:


> Please can anyone advise how to alleviate discomfort I'm experiencing with my SR-007A's ear pads? My ears are quite small and flat yet I feel contact and pressure with the mesh and sides of the ear pads despite rotating the ear pads so that the inner D shape aligns with my ears. This is distracting unfortunately, so any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Martyn


 
 There is a seam that runs across the ear pads from inner D shape to outside and then to the metal housing.  The ear pads should be rotated until this seam points forward and upwards toward your temples.  This was covered in one of the Stax threads but you probably will spend hours looking for it.  You will notice when you do this that the flat side of the inner D shape is behind your ear rather than in the front, which is what I'm guessing you have now.  You will also notice that the thicker part of the ear pad is also at the back and lower part of your ear which is the part that sticks out the most.  This should alleviate the problem - unless of course you already knew all this, in which case it won't help one bit.


----------



## jibzilla

zolkis said:


> I guess I need to hear the Utopia now . Slightly OT, I am sure it is good, and don't doubt the state of the art beryllium driver can compete in many respects with state of the art e-stat, I have my doubts whether they are better overall, and the Utopia forum reinforces these doubts. I used to have the legendary Yamaha NS1000M monitors with beryllium mids and highs, and modded the crossover, cabinet and woofer to make it even (quite much) better, and I know what you mean by being e-stat like. Beryllium domes sound clean, dynamic and crisp, but you can still hear that the membrane has less internal damping than say good soft domes or e-stats, even though these are the best metallic domes possible to make. Good e-stats sound different (though they have their own compromises, for instance I liked Quads and meh'd Martin Logans which lose on resolution even compared to a Dunlavy).
> 
> I am sure there are fine lines where one could say this is enough e-stat like sound but it's more dynamic (or replace it with your favorite characteristic), then someone gets to the Utopia which is completely fine (and probably a better total cost of ownership than with a Stax 009 + BHSE or Carbon).


 
  
 The Utopia was very nice but I still did not hear enough to pounce on them right off the bat. They do have build quality and comfort over the sr-009 and lcd-4. If there is a $4k headphone front runner for me it is the Utopia slightly ahead of the 009 and lcd-4. I would say the Utopia had an advantage in the treble region but lost in the bass department to my 007mk1.
  
 I have listened to the Abyss and briefly owned the he-1k. They're ok but not for me.


----------



## nemomec

bmichels said:


> Guys, something strange happen to me since I have my BHSE + Stax 009: Often *after listening to BHSE/SR009, I have my ears ringing for many hours*. And I do NOT listen louder with the STAX than with my Orthos headphone which do not produce this ringing phenomenon !??
> 
> —> Do you think it can be caused by some brightness in the SR009 to which I may be extra sensitive ? have other people experienced such thing ?  will I adapt with time or should I consider may be a SR007 instead or use a warmer DAC or....???
> --> or... can it be caused instead by some electromagnetic radiation generated by the SR009 that I am very sensitive to (there are hundreds of volts in those ear cups !) ?


 

 Is the sound level really the same? I made the experience that many persons listening louder to e-stats than dynamic headphones, i think the reason are the lower distortion.


----------



## jibzilla

zolkis said:


> Sure, the HD800 beats the big Stax on the value and portability, but although I like the HD800 for certain music types, I find even a Stax 207 better for my taste, and it can't even compete with my [modded] 007 and the 009. I guess I am a Stax guy. The Utopia might hit a sweet spot for dynamic vs e-stats, even though it's too expensive. The question is, will its midrange beat the Stax, that is to be seen, let's see when can I put my hands on them.
> 
> However, I have found most interesting that someone actually prefers the HD800 to a top 009 setup. That is a good reminder on how subjective this hobby is, and how different people are. I would almost say this casts a heavy shadow over trusting reviews on this forum, since you can't rely on other peoples' opinion too much, it's a MUST to listen to stuff yourself.


 
  
 Absolute truth about s.q. Build quality and comfort are less of a debate and it is hard to argue that the 007mk1 and hd800 that I own fail in that regard. To each his/her own but if you have issues with the hd800 and 007mk1 in terms of build quality and comfort I think you might be better off trying speakers. I do not see Hifiman lasting a whole lot longer because there is so little effort put into  comfort and build quality. Sad to me cause the he-500 sounded awesome for the price.


----------



## zolkis

martyn73 said:


> Please can anyone advise how to alleviate discomfort I'm experiencing with my SR-007A's ear pads? My ears are quite small and flat yet I feel contact and pressure with the mesh and sides of the ear pads despite rotating the ear pads so that the inner D shape aligns with my ears. This is distracting unfortunately, so any help would be appreciated.
> 
> I've read the mod here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/754839/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods but is there an equivalent mod for the SR-007A/MkII? Alternatively, is there an another ear pad which is deeper and can be converted to fit the SR-007A? The Ether pads I saw at CanJam look comfortable.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The 007A and the 007 Mk1 are identical from that mod's point of view. The black 007 pad is from different material than the old 007 Mk1 brown pad, and it's slightly higher, and more firm. It is also higher than the 009 pads. What I suspect is bothering you may be the spring.
  
 I've been advising 007 owners here and in the mods thread to remove the spring from below the pads, and attach the pads themselves without the spring. It is much, much easier to attach, and sounds better in my opinion (sustained for many years). I tried dozens of time to make justice to the spring, but I was always able to make the bare pads sound better.
  
 So I say you should try this:
 - remove the 007 pads
 - remove the springs
 - remove the black rubber spring anchor from the middle of the front plate
 - assemble the pads
 - see if it's more comfortable and if it sounds better .
  
 As a next step, I suggest you order a 009 replacement pad from your Stax dealer, and put that on the 007 without the spring. Welcome to a new world .
  
 I made it even farther, as I replaced the original 009 pad stuffing with a different foam type (less density and stronger fibers) that I took out from my (also modded) Harbeth speakers and cut to optimal dimensions. That made the bass even better, the sound stage way better, it also made the presence and treble better, and I prefer the result to the 009, and cured my desire to obtain an SR-Omega. This is the phone to beat for all newcomers, Ether E, Utopia, etc. I think it's even better value than the HD800. 
  
 Take away the personal bias coming from years of modding, add some salt, divide the result by two, but still give a chance to your 007 .


----------



## bmichels

nemomec said:


> Is the sound level really the same? I made the experience that many persons listening louder to e-stats than dynamic headphones, i think the reason are the lower distortion.




Thank you all for your advices and sharing your experience. 

You might be right, may be I listen louder than I believe with the STAX  I will try to check my sound level next Time.

Also, I will investigate TUBE ROLLING. May be another tube might help. If NOT I will have to try the SR007, but... I prefer the 009 much better :mad:


----------



## zolkis

bmichels said:


> Guys, something strange happen to me since I have my BHSE + Stax 009: Often *after listening to BHSE/SR009, I have my ears ringing for many hours*. And I do NOT listen louder with the STAX than with my Orthos headphone which do not produce this ringing phenomenon !??


 
  
 To parrot a known saying, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation. Many people experience temporary tinnitus for no identifiable reasons.
 It may be that your 009 experience contributed, but I doubt it was the cause. A friend struggled so much with tinnitus that I have indirectly learned a lot of its science.
 Virus infection, decrease of blood flow in the inner ear, high volume sound (trauma), distorted sound  (high amplitude odd harmonics), Eustach problems, peaking blood pressure (doesn't need to be high) and a lot of other reasons could contribute to it. When it happens, stop listening to headphones for a while, to eliminate a possible cause, but don't draw quick conclusions yet. 
  


bmichels said:


> —> Do you think it can be caused by some brightness in the SR009 to which I may be extra sensitive ? have other people experienced such thing ?  will I adapt with time or should I consider may be a SR007 instead or use a warmer DAC or....???
> --> or... can it be caused instead by some electromagnetic radiation generated by the SR009 that I am very sensitive to (there are hundreds of volts in those ear cups !) ?


 
  
 I am not a tinnitus expert, so I won't say a strong opinion, but to me these look quite unlikely. I think if these were factors, we'd see more cases of tinnitus reported and better statistical correlation on the causes - it's true that I am not aware of a study among dynamic vs e-stat vs in-ear listeners with control groups etc. Perhaps no one will ever care about this niche .


----------



## bmichels

zolkis said:


> To parrot a known saying, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation. Many people experience temporary tinnitus for no identifiable reasons.
> It may be that your 009 experience contributed, but I doubt it was the cause. A friend struggled so much with tinnitus that I have indirectly learned a lot of its science.
> Virus infection, decrease of blood flow in the inner ear, high volume sound (trauma), distorted sound  (high amplitude odd harmonics), Eustach problems, peaking blood pressure (doesn't need to be high) and a lot of other reasons could contribute to it. When it happens, stop listening to headphones for a while, to eliminate a possible cause, but don't draw quick conclusions yet.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I must confess that in the past I already had ear ringing but definitively not for so long and so often. So you are right, the STAX is not the *declenching factors* but...it may agravate the phenomenon.


----------



## nepherte

bmichels said:


> I must confess that in the past I already had ear ringing but definitively not for so long and so often. So you are right, the STAX is not the [COLOR=6A6A6A]*declenching factors*[/COLOR] but...it may agravate the phenomenon.



When I listen to music with your volume settings, for me that is too loud. Not sure if this is a useful reference


----------



## bmichels

nepherte said:


> When I listen to music with your volume settings, for me that is too loud. Not sure if this is a useful reference




OK I Will try to lower the volume and see if It help ...


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## rgs9200m

Although it's too early to ask right now, but just to establish the question for later, are any Stax users going to let the Focal Utopia pry their Stax from their hands? There is all this chatter about the Utopia being the closest thing to Stax-sonics yet, but I suspect this is just early-adopter over-enthusiasm.


----------



## Pale Rider

rgs9200m said:


> Although it's too early to ask right now, but just to establish the question for later, are any Stax user going to let the Focal Utopia pry their Stax from their hands?


 
  
 Not from mine.


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## bearFNF

Nope, not mine either.


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## nepherte

rgs9200m said:


> Although it's too early to ask right now, but just to establish the question for later, are any Stax users going to let the Focal Utopia pry their Stax from their hands? There is all this chatter about the Utopia being the closest thing to Stax-sonics yet, but I suspect this is just early-adopter over-enthusiasm.


 

 Heard them. No temptation.


----------



## LaCuffia

I just saw the Inner Fidelity guy's review in which he calls the Focal Utopia the world's best headphone....and then I hear within the first few minutes the headphone squeaking/creaking when he handles them. He said sometimes the squeaking just means "high performance materials just doing their thing."   Huh?   For $4K?


----------



## jibzilla

Heard the Utopia as well and my 007mk1 and hd800 are going no where. If they dropped the price to say $2900 I might bite but it will be a complimentary can and unlikely to replace the 007mk1 or hd800.


----------



## rgs9200m

Yep, I spent the last few days with my 007 2.5 and some new SACD discs and I'm left wondering how a can first introduced 18 years ago and still under $2K could still be so brilliant and in a class by itself imho...
 [edit: the price of the SR007 has remained constant for all those 18 years; isn't that kind of amazing? We should probably tip our hats to Stax for that.]


----------



## martyn73

zolkis said:


> The 007A and the 007 Mk1 are identical from that mod's point of view. The black 007 pad is from different material than the old 007 Mk1 brown pad, and it's slightly higher, and more firm. It is also higher than the 009 pads. What I suspect is bothering you may be the spring.
> 
> I've been advising 007 owners here and in the mods thread to remove the spring from below the pads, and attach the pads themselves without the spring. It is much, much easier to attach, and sounds better in my opinion (sustained for many years). I tried dozens of time to make justice to the spring, but I was always able to make the bare pads sound better.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the detailed reply.I'm unsure how to remove the ear pads from the SR-007A. Do I just pull them?
  
 The EP-009 is hard to find and is (unsurprisingly) expensive: http://www.fair-kaeuflich.de/product_info.php/info/p10177_STAX-EP-009-Leather-Ear-Pads-black--Pair--for-SR-009.html - this seems to be the only EP-009 available on the internet. Do you recommend fitting the EP-009 to the SR-007A with or without the spring? It would seem that the EP-009 is perfectly compatible with the SR-007A/II unless I've misread your post.


----------



## martyn73

jiml11 said:


> There is a seam that runs across the ear pads from inner D shape to outside and then to the metal housing.  The ear pads should be rotated until this seam points forward and upwards toward your temples.  This was covered in one of the Stax threads but you probably will spend hours looking for it.  You will notice when you do this that the flat side of the inner D shape is behind your ear rather than in the front, which is what I'm guessing you have now.  You will also notice that the thicker part of the ear pad is also at the back and lower part of your ear which is the part that sticks out the most.  This should alleviate the problem - unless of course you already knew all this, in which case it won't help one bit.


 
 Hi, thanks for the advice. The inner D was pointing to the rear which I thought was correct as this seems to match the shape of my ear. Following your advice the seam is now at the front in a 3 o'clock position rather than at the rear at about 11 o'clock (it that's correct). This appears odd to me, but previously (with the seam to the rear), there was a slight gap between the lower portion of the ear pad and my ear lobe which is now sealed. It's already feeling more comfortable.


----------



## JimL11

martyn73 said:


> Hi, thanks for the advice. The inner D was pointing to the rear which I thought was correct as this seems to match the shape of my ear. Following your advice the seam is now at the front in a 3 o'clock position rather than at the rear at about 11 o'clock (it that's correct). This appears odd to me, but previously (with the seam to the rear), there was a slight gap between the lower portion of the ear pad and my ear lobe which is now sealed. It's already feeling more comfortable.


 

 Glad to help.  The positioning does seem counterintuitive, but as you noted, it helps the seal (which should improve the bass) as well as the comfort.  You may want to play around with the position of the seam a bit, for example some have found the best position to be pointing somewhat upwards toward the temple, e.g. approximately 2 o'clock.


----------



## rgs9200m

FWIW, I could never ever get comfortable with the SR007 mk1 even though I owned it for 8 years. I twisted and adjusted the pads every which way to no avail; it always clipped my ear and my ear also would touch the inner surface cover of the driver. 
 I am much happier with the current version and it's very comfortable. The pads are nice and thick and somehow there is no interference with my ear.


----------



## zolkis

martyn73 said:


> Thanks for the detailed reply.I'm unsure how to remove the ear pads from the SR-007A. Do I just pull them?


 
 Basically yes. You could take out the dust grill first, but taking off the 007 pads is as simple as pulling them off, then as the last step pull the center of the spring out of the rubber bed in the center of the frontplate. Here are the 009 pad removal instructions:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/754839/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods/15#post_11789941
  
 If you want to experiment with stuffing, fold out the pads leather from the front plate side. Do the reverse when assembling.
  
 Assembling the 007 pads to the phones are more complex, but every 007 pad paper box has the assembly flow picture on the inside. I can make a photo and share in case you don't have it.
 However, if you remove the spring, assembling pads on the 007 becomes very easy (then as a last step you insert the dust grill). See also the description in the 009 steps linked above.
  


> The EP-009 is hard to find and is (unsurprisingly) expensive: http://www.fair-kaeuflich.de/product_info.php/info/p10177_STAX-EP-009-Leather-Ear-Pads-black--Pair--for-SR-009.html - this seems to be the only EP-009 available on the internet. Do you recommend fitting the EP-009 to the SR-007A with or without the spring? It would seem that the EP-009 is perfectly compatible with the SR-007A/II unless I've misread your post.


 
  
 Yes, it is compatible, very slighly (1-2 mm) bigger diameter, but actually fits perfectly. The price I paid for the EP-009 IIRC was 140 euros from my local Stax dealer. That was few years back. I just walked in, ordered, and got it 5 months later . You might be more lucky with the delivery time if you live in a bigger market than mine . It is indeed expensive, but people pay more for mods that are much less effective... and it's not that much more expensive than the EP-007.


----------



## gefski

lacuffia said:


> Really enjoying this setup...next stop - the 007 but not for a long time! I've found the sweet spot. I like it much better than the 207 I had. It's actually quite similar to the SR-5 but offers a bit more transparency and better soundstage.




Yep. I upgraded similarly this summer. 407 to 404LE. Not radically different, just more alive in space texture, also flatter to the very bottom.

Just got a Birgir modified 727A to drive them, so I'm smiling (and listening) even more. My SRM1 MK2 PRO will be finding a new home.


----------



## hypermedia

Hifiman HE-1000 pads on L300 stax headphones


----------



## ricercar

How are they attached, please? Is there adhesive?
  


hypermedia said:


> Hifiman HE-1000 pads on L300 stax headphones


----------



## martyn73

zolkis said:


> Basically yes. You could take out the dust grill first, but taking off the 007 pads is as simple as pulling them off, then as the last step pull the center of the spring out of the rubber bed in the center of the frontplate. Here are the 009 pad removal instructions:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/754839/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods/15#post_11789941
> 
> If you want to experiment with stuffing, fold out the pads leather from the front plate side. Do the reverse when assembling.
> ...



Thanks, do you suggest leaving the spring in place for the EP-009 or is this optional? Hopefully the EP-009 is more comfortable than the EP-007.


----------



## rgs9200m

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/stax-sr-l700-headphone/
  
 Short TAS review of the L700 by Steven Stone (apologies if it's already been cited here).
 Note that he uses a preamp in the chain it seems, which is a bit odd I think.
  
 Pet peeve of mine: the magazines rarely mention anything but Stax amps as far as I can recall, certainly not a KG. This is a disservice to their readers.
 When I got my SR007 mk 1 back in 1999, I mainly read reviews back then and had no idea about how much a better amp was needed. 
  
 Mr. Stone previously wrote a very favorable review of the Oppo PM-1 some time back (which I mention just for reference).


----------



## zolkis

martyn73 said:


> Thanks, do you suggest leaving the spring in place for the EP-009 or is this optional? Hopefully the EP-009 is more comfortable than the EP-007.


 
  
 Please don't use the spring for the EP-009, it is not designed for that, it doesn't have the place for it.


----------



## TDL-speakers

I've just recently acquired a set of Stax SR-404 Signature Earspeakers. I don't have an energiser at present.
  
 I'm thinking about getting the Stax SRM-323S, when funds allow. Will the 323S make a decent pairing with the signature 404?
  
 S.


----------



## Blackmore

Get tube based one http://www.head-fi.org/t/818351/stax-srm-t1s-with-toshiba-tubes
  
 Cheers
  
  
  
 Quote:


tdl-speakers said:


> I've just recently acquired a set of Stax SR-404 Signature Earspeakers. I don't have an energiser at present.
> 
> I'm thinking about getting the Stax SRM-323S, when funds allow. Will the 323S make a decent pairing with the signature 404?
> 
> S.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

blackmore said:


>


 
_The only older Stax model that had enough midbass weight for my tastes was the SR-X Mk 3_
What ?!?! Unless he has the pro (although unobtainium) version.
An Abyss is electrostatic ? C'mon...

Ali


----------



## gefski

ali-pacha said:


> An Abyss is electrostatic ?



Scratched my head on that comment myself. Went to the Abyss site, "Proprietary planar magnetic...", so nope, not ES.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

jibzilla said:


> Heard the Utopia as well and my 007mk1 and hd800 are going no where. If they dropped the price to say $2900 I might bite but it will be a complimentary can and unlikely to replace the 007mk1 or hd800.


 
  
 Agreed. Heard the Utopia's off a WA22 at a local leader and it did not leave me wanting to upgrade my 009 system. The tonality of the Utopia was well balanced, with the right proportion of lows, mids and highs; nice separation of sounds; and the phones just disappeared producing a nice image of the recorded venue. Its hard to describe but the Utopia's had an authority about them that seemed like it could handle anything without breaking a sweat. Build quality is excellent. However, vocals sounded a bit thin; and not as transparent and had smaller sound stage compared to the 009s. Overall, I get more realism out of 009s. After the demo, I went home and listened to the HD800s off a WA5 and I can't say that the Utopia's are clearly better. All three phones have different strengths, IMO. Please take my initial impressions of the Utopia with grain of salt as I only listened to it for 20 minutes with unfamiliar gear, albeit in a quiet, private setting.


----------



## TDL-speakers

Are both drive units. Inside the 404 signature  slightly angled? 
  
 S.


----------



## Arthrumus

tdl-speakers said:


> Are both drive units. Inside the 404 signature  slightly angled?
> 
> S.


 Technically the drivers are not angled, the pads are the part that is angled and yes both sides are angled.


----------



## astrostar59

gefski said:


> Scratched my head on that comment myself. Went to the Abyss site, "Proprietary planar magnetic...", so nope, not ES.


 
 Electrostatic headphones need a bias current to charge' the panels, then an AC (music) current is applied that then moves the panels in or our (huge simplification). This bias current to charge the panels in Stax pro case is 580v which sounds insanely dangerous but the current has a tiny amount of amps, but high voltage. You can touch the pins on a Stax plug after removing the headphone lead, and don't feel anything.
  
 Planar Magnetics and others like them use magnets placed around the panels and add a current (music) move also move the panels in or out, BUT there is no bias current applied.
  
 There are positives and negatives to both types. One of the advantages to Electrostatics is the panel is very light and has remarkably fast response.
  
 In the Senn HD800s fpor example, it is more of a conventional speaker with a cone and magnet arrangement.


----------



## Quixote79

astrostar59 said:


> Electrostatic headphones need a bias current to charge' the panels, then an AC (music) current is applied that then moves the panels in or our (huge simplification). This bias current to charge the panels in Stax pro case is 580v which sounds insanely dangerous but the current has a tiny amount of amps, but high voltage. You can touch the pins on a Stax plug after removing the headphone lead, and don't feel anything.
> 
> Planar Magnetics and others like them use magnets placed around the panels and add a current (music) move also move the panels in or out, BUT there is no bias current applied.
> 
> ...


 

 580v of bias current sounds dangerous - does it real has to be so much amper? i not think i listen to music as loud as panels moves in or out. is there not a way to cut down the voltage on the ampers - sound more safe i gues


----------



## Tinkerer

quixote79 said:


> 580v of bias current sounds dangerous - does it real has to be so much amper? i not think i listen to music as loud as panels moves in or out. is there not a way to cut down the voltage on the ampers - sound more safe i gues


 
  
 Volts are electric potential, not current. The higher the bias voltage, the more sensitive the headphones/speakers, and the more detail you can wring out of them. It's just a teeny tiny charge on the stators. Less of a charge than you zap yourself with from touching a doorknob after walking on carpet.
  
 I've made the mistake of accidentally touching the bias line with my hand when I was testing an electrostatic amp once. Forgot the thing was running. Gave me a good little zap but nothing dangerous.
  
 Now the power supply, that will stop your heart. Though, you know, so will sticking your hand into the PSU of a microwave or a television when it's running. And you would have to stick your hand into a running amplifier to have that happen.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

ali-pacha said:


> _The only older Stax model that had enough midbass weight for my tastes was the SR-X Mk 3_
> What ?!?! Unless he has the pro (although unobtainium) version.
> An Abyss is electrostatic ? C'mon...
> 
> Ali


 
  
 Had the same reaction when I read that "review"...clueless and dumb reviewer.


----------



## gefski

astrostar59 said:


> Electrostatic headphones need a bias current to charge' the panels, then an AC (music) current is applied that then moves the panels in or our (huge simplification). This bias current to charge the panels in Stax pro case is 580v which sounds insanely dangerous but the current has a tiny amount of amps, but high voltage. You can touch the pins on a Stax plug after removing the headphone lead, and don't feel anything.
> 
> Planar Magnetics and others like them use magnets placed around the panels and add a current (music) move also move the panels in or out, BUT there is no bias current applied.
> 
> ...




Just adding to astrostar59 comments, not disagreeing with anything:

Operationally, planar magnetics are closer to conventional drivers than they are to ES. They use a voice coil on the planar driver, though it is "printed" rather than in a coil. And the driver is suspended between permanent magnets. Just like a conventional driver, the music signal goes to the driver.

ES uses neither voice coil nor magnets. In Stax' case, the mylar driver receives a (+ -) 580v charge. It is suspended between plates (not magnets). Then *the music signal goes to the plates, not the driver*. The (+ -) charged driver is pushed/pulled by the music signal.


----------



## Arthrumus

astrostar59 said:


> Electrostatic headphones need a bias current to charge' the panels, then an AC (music) current is applied that then moves the panels in or our (huge simplification). This bias current to charge the panels in Stax pro case is 580v which sounds insanely dangerous but the current has a tiny amount of amps, but high voltage. You can touch the pins on a Stax plug after removing the headphone lead, and don't feel anything.
> 
> Planar Magnetics and others like them use magnets placed around the panels and add a current (music) move also move the panels in or out, BUT there is no bias current applied.
> 
> ...


 Maybe you should leave unsolicited explanations of headphone driver technologies to someone who actually knows something about it.


----------



## astrostar59

arthrumus said:


> Maybe you should leave unsolicited explanations of headphone driver technologies to someone who actually knows something about it.


 

 Maybe you should contribute instead of acting like a child.


----------



## astrostar59

gefski said:


> Just adding to astrostar59 comments, not disagreeing with anything:
> 
> Operationally, planar magnetics are closer to conventional drivers than they are to ES. They use a voice coil on the planar driver, though it is "printed" rather than in a coil. And the driver is suspended between permanent magnets. Just like a conventional driver, the music signal goes to the driver.
> 
> ES uses neither voice coil nor magnets. In Stax' case, the mylar driver receives a (+ -) 580v charge. It is suspended between plates (not magnets). Then *the music signal goes to the plates, not the driver*. The (+ -) charged driver is pushed/pulled by the music signal.


 

 Thank you that is most helpful.


----------



## Quixote79

arthrumus said:


> Maybe you should leave unsolicited explanations of headphone driver technologies to someone who actually knows something about it.


 

 dont know why you say something like that. he now what he talks about ... he also explains how amps works.


----------



## Quixote79

gefski said:


> Just adding to astrostar59 comments, not disagreeing with anything:
> 
> Operationally, planar magnetics are closer to conventional drivers than they are to ES. They use a voice coil on the planar driver, though it is "printed" rather than in a coil. And the driver is suspended between permanent magnets. Just like a conventional driver, the music signal goes to the driver.
> 
> ES uses neither voice coil nor magnets. In Stax' case, the mylar driver receives a (+ -) 580v charge. It is suspended between plates (not magnets). Then *the music signal goes to the plates, not the driver*. The (+ -) charged driver is pushed/pulled by the music signal.


 

 what does panels do then??? and is the driver + on one side and - on other side - like a magnet?


----------



## Arthrumus

astrostar59 said:


> Maybe you should contribute instead of acting like a child.


I do contribute on a regular basis and I give accurate and concise answers. What I don't do is spout off incomprehensible posts about things that I don't understand. I am here both to learn and to be informative where I can. Posts like yours show that you either do not know, or are incapable of putting into words what you know about this topic, neither of which serve to "contribute" to this forum.

The only reason I didn't correct your post is because it had already been corrected by other members, and because it was completely unsolicited in the first place.


----------



## astrostar59

arthrumus said:


> I do contribute on a regular basis and I give accurate and concise answers. What I don't do is spout off incomprehensible posts about things that I don't understand. I am here both to learn and to be informative where I can. Posts like yours show that you either do not know, or are incapable of putting into words what you know about this topic, neither of which serve to "contribute" to this forum.
> 
> The only reason I didn't correct your post is because it had already been corrected by other members, and because it was completely unsolicited in the first place.


 

 Time out...


----------



## jgazal

What is the precise terminology?
I thought the terms were:
A) stators (or less ideally plates) 
B) diaphragm (or less ideally film)
C) driver (or capacitive transducer) to name the whole set composed of stators, spacers and diaphragm.


----------



## Arthrumus

astrostar59 said:


> Hmm, having owned Stax HPs for 25 years and currently own the 009s and 007s and some LNS I do have some knowledge as a USER. I don't pretend to know exactly how the Abyss for example works, but that is on their website. As far I have see I didn't miss quote. Maybe you s all seeing all knowledge can enlighten us then. The original poster was curious as to why the Abyss was not a ES. I did not know I had to get your supreme permission to post here. Damb, I have posted maybe 2K already, I am so sorry about that.
> 
> Going back to enjoying my Carbon and 009s fed by my Audio Note DAC 5 Special. That is why I enjoy this hobby, the music, politics and games are for well, I don't need to say...


 Cool man, I've only been working with Stax headphones for 3 years, but in that time I have repaired and restored several vintage sets of headphones, modified a couple of amplifiers, converted several SRD boxes to Pro bias with custom built bias circuits, added normal bias to an SRM-727 and am currently building an SRX Plus amp. With all that said I'm far from an expert, but my knowledge about Stax is almost entirely technical in nature due to my personal interests. I'm sure there are many non technical things that you know about Stax that I do not because of your years of experience as a user. 

I've got nothing personal against you but that post irked me because it was so confusing and incomplete that anybody trying to learn about Stax would probably leave more confused than when they arrived after reading it. 



jgazal said:


> What is the precise terminology?
> I thought the terms were:
> A) stators (or less ideally plates)
> B) diaphragm (or less ideally film)
> C) driver (or capacitive transducer) to name the whole set composed of stators, spacers and diaphragm.



You got it. The diaphragm is also sometimes referred to as the membrane.


----------



## Sorrodje

@Arthrumus: Ignore function helps for irritations crisis


----------



## Arthrumus

Shifting gears here, has anyone been updated on PriceJapan orders lately? I'm gearing up to buy an Omega 2 and I'm hoping to go through them if they're back up and running.


----------



## JimL11

quixote79 said:


> 580v of bias current sounds dangerous - does it real has to be so much amper? i not think i listen to music as loud as panels moves in or out. is there not a way to cut down the voltage on the ampers - sound more safe i gues


 

 Voltage by itself is not dangerous unless there is significant current accompanying it.  For example, if you walk across a carpet on a dry day and touch a door knob you may get a little shock from static electricity - that is actually over 1000 volts, but the current is negligible, so no big deal.
  
 So to explain an electrostatic driver, you have three parts, the two stators, which are stationary, and the driver which sits between them.  The amplifier supplies the drive voltage and current to the stators in opposite phase, that is, when one stator goes positive, the other goes negative.  The driver, which is a thin membrane, e.g. similar to saran wrap, is charged to a fixed voltage, in the case of a Stax Pro, for example, positive 580 volts.  Now, with no signal the membrane sits still between the stators.  If we now apply, say 10 volts to one stator and -10 volts to the other, then the voltage between the driver membrane and one stator is 570 volts, but the voltage between the driver membrane and the other stator is 590 volts.  This imbalance between the voltages causes the membrane to move, producing sound.   Because of the amount of force that can be generated by an electric field, you need the high voltage to make enough sound.  An electrostatic speaker, for example, uses voltages of 6-7 kilovolts on its diaphragm to generate enough sound and even then, they are not known for producing ear-bleeding levels.  That's just the physics of it.


----------



## plektret

arthrumus said:


> Shifting gears here, has anyone been updated on PriceJapan orders lately? I'm gearing up to buy an Omega 2 and I'm hoping to go through them if they're back up and running.



 

I still haven't got any response about the order I made on June 16 (fax and email). I was looking forward to return to Stax after 4 years of planars, but it looks like I have to start saving again...


----------



## LaCuffia

There was a post a few weeks ago about the guy that runs PriceJapan getting out of the hospital. It seemed that orders were being processed but perhaps there is still an issue. I just stick with US retailers - you pay more but at least there is a warranty and a return period.


----------



## Spork67

plektret said:


> arthrumus said:
> 
> 
> > Shifting gears here, has anyone been updated on PriceJapan orders lately? I'm gearing up to buy an Omega 2 and I'm hoping to go through them if they're back up and running.
> ...


 
 How did you pay?
 If you used PayPal a refund is dead easy.
 If you used CC, your bank can still arrange a refund, it's not that much more difficult than doing it via PayPal, but it will possibly involve a trip to your branch and your signature on a form.


----------



## plektret

spork67 said:


> How did you pay?
> If you used PayPal a refund is dead easy.
> If you used CC, your bank can still arrange a refund, it's not that much more difficult than doing it via PayPal, but it will possibly involve a trip to your branch and your signature on a form.



 

I paid by EU bank transfer so I don't think I can get my money back. I've ordered from PJ twice before without problems, so I thought it was safe enough.


----------



## astrostar59

arthrumus said:


>





> I've got nothing personal against you but that post irked me because it was so confusing and incomplete that anybody trying to learn about Stax would probably leave more confused than when they arrived after reading it.


 
 That is better, we all contribute. Much better to expand on posts as required than to attack based on principle. There are folk over at the other place one can ask for total technical breakdown of anything anyone could want to know on this subject.
  
 My very basic description was to a very basic question (keeping it dead simple), thinking the 'Abyss is a ES'. No need to go into longer technical definitions for that level of question IMO.
  
 I used the word panels as the other types of HPs use different terminology, so that would confuse the original poster even more.
  
 Glad we sorted this out.


----------



## bmichels

Has someone tried the *SR009 with the* *Kingsound M-03 portable amp* ?  
  
 I like so much my BHSE+SR009 that I wonder how I could get almost tha same SQ when I travel.
  
*is there other Transportable or portable  Electrostatic amps ? *


----------



## hardpike

bmichels said:


> Has someone tried the *SR009 with the* *Kingsound M-03 portable amp* ?
> 
> I like so much my BHSE+SR009 that I wonder how I could get almost tha same SQ when I travel.
> 
> *is there other Transportable or portable  Electrostatic amps ? *



Good question
Interested
I have the old srd-x pro
It is portable
But portable from the 80s
Which means quite big (8x c type batteries)
Something else around available?


----------



## joseph69

bmichels said:


> I like so much my BHSE+SR009 that *I wonder how I could get almost the** same SQ* when I travel.


 
 I just spent over $7K (including NOS tubes) on the BHSE so I sure hope you can't almost get the same SQ from a portable amp.


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> I just spent over $7K (including NOS tubes) on the BHSE so I sure hope you can't almost get the same SQ from a portable amp.


 

 IMO for a more portable system you might be better going solid state (compact amp design) and getting the LCD2s. That is what I would do.
  
 Or try these:
 http://www.headfonia.com/baby-stax-take-2-stax-sr-002/
  
 I have 2 setups, but am in 2 houses, not traveling around or listening in hotels.
  
 IMO it would be a tall order to get close to the BHSE and 009s, but something still very good quality could be possible. Personally I hate being away from tunes for too long so I dig your reasoning.


----------



## comzee

bmichels said:


> Has someone tried the *SR009 with the* *Kingsound M-03 portable amp* ?
> 
> *is there other Transportable or portable  Electrostatic amps ? *


 
 I asked Spritzer and Gilmore about it, they said it was crap, better to get 252S for travel.


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> IMO for a more portable system you might be better going solid state (compact amp design) and getting the LCD2s. That is what I would do.
> 
> Or try these:
> http://www.headfonia.com/baby-stax-take-2-stax-sr-002/
> ...


 
 It was @bmichelswho was asking about the portable amp…not me, but thank you anyway.


----------



## Tinkerer

comzee said:


> Better to get 252S for travel.


 

 I bet there are all sorts of compact 12V portable power supplies you could use for that.


----------



## bmichels

comzee said:


> I asked Spritzer and Gilmore about it, they said it was crap, better to get 252S for travel.


 
  
 or wait for their new SRM212  DAC/AMP ..*.if it reach the market *


----------



## zolkis

Stax portability mostly means you can transport them in a luggage between two noise-insulated rooms .
 The headphones come in an already a pretty big box to carry around, plus the amp gets you to fill cabin size luggage easily. Since even if the amp is small (like the 252S) the power supply is going to be either big or heavy or both, or otherwise meh, so I don't see many reasons to carry Stax headphones around. The (noisy) environment, or the size (and weight) kills most use cases. I am also skeptical about the possibilities of  getting sound quality close to the BHSE in a small package. 
  
 I never heard the in-ear Stax, but they are a different thing - the question was about a portable 009 package IIUR.


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## Arthrumus

The srs-002 system is remarkably good if the eartip design agrees with your anatomy. It's not a 009 but it is still phenomenal as a portable electrostatic setup.


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## mulveling

zolkis said:


> Stax portability mostly means you can transport them in a luggage between two noise-insulated rooms .
> The headphones come in an already a pretty big box to carry around, plus the amp gets you to fill cabin size luggage easily. Since even if the amp is small (like the 252S) the power supply is going to be either big or heavy or both, or otherwise meh, so I don't see many reasons to carry Stax headphones around. The (noisy) environment, or the size (and weight) kills most use cases. I am also skeptical about the possibilities of  getting sound quality close to the BHSE in a small package.
> 
> I never heard the in-ear Stax, but they are a different thing - the question was about a portable 009 package IIUR.


 
 I agree; hauling around a 009 sounds like a recipe for disaster, not to mention it won't live up to anywhere near the BHSE/009 level. Dynamic headphones are more robust for what matters to the potential traumas of travel, and far easier to drive too. He should go with either one of the Stax systems designed with portability in mind (the srs-002 mentioned above), or go with a transportable dynamic/planar headphone setup.


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## vapman

I get nervous being outside with my damn JVC SZ2k's and those aren't even all that much money.
  
 If I was travelling with any STAX I would invest in a bigger than necessary Pelican and would not trust anything else. This is already my plan for whenever I get an 007 or 009: it will not leave the Pelican unless it is sitting down & listening time.
  
 I don't think I would even be okay with owning an 007 or 009 if I _didn't_ have a way to have it survive any possible accident without being worried about damage. I have seen Pelicans full of incredibly delicate equipment take some beatings.


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## Arthrumus

I think Stax should look into developing a set of portable on ear earspeakers that are compatible with the existing SRM-002 amp and priced similarly to that system. I built an adapter to use full size Stax earspeakers on the SRM-002 a while back and it drove the SR-X Mk3 very well, so I don't think it would be that unrealistic for Stax to do something similar.


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## vapman

arthrumus said:


> I think Stax should look into developing a set of portable on ear earspeakers that are compatible with the existing SRM-002 amp and priced similarly to that system. I built an adapter to use full size Stax earspeakers on the SRM-002 a while back and it drove the SR-X Mk3 very well, so I don't think it would be that unrealistic for Stax to do something similar.


 

 I would also buy this. I miss my SR-X MK3 so much. Incredibly regretful  I ever sold that setup: it was one of the best I ever had!
  
 The STAX in-ear monitors sound nothing like the earspeakers IMO.


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## elrod

SR-007 Omega II Mk1 Ear Pads and Head Pad...
  
 Posted in a help forum here, was told I should post here - if faux pas I apologize and mods can delete prior thread.
  
 I'm trying to get myself eju-macated on the Stax SR-007 omega II MK1 before I look into possibly buying a pair.
  
 Browsing around I get the impression that the original brown OEM ear pads and head pad have been discontinued for the Omega II/MK1. Here is an example of a quote I found online:"Unfortunately, the original brown color parts are out of production, and so I could only source black color parts from Stax" This person also mentions they also couldn't get the original brown Omega II/Mk1 head pad for the same reason. However, I go to the Stax USA website and they state that they carry the STAXSR007EP and STAXSR007HP in brown. Am I missing something? Are the brown ear pads/head pad at StaxUSA the same as the originals? If different, how?
  
 I tried to go to the horses mouth and asked Stax via email, but I haven't heard back from them yet
  
 Thanks


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## sensui123

Why is there such an obsession to carry around stax? So many other options on dynamic/ortho side that sounds awesome.... There are some great iems out there that take you to another place with a good seal even...... Why bother stressing about carrying around sr009 or sr007 on the go...


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## Arthrumus

sensui123 said:


> Why is there such an obsession to carry around stax? So many other options on dynamic/ortho side that sounds awesome.... There are some great iems out there that take you to another place with a good seal even...... Why bother stressing about carrying around sr009 or sr007 on the go...


 
 Well I don't disagree about trying to make the 009 or 007 portable, but I don't see any reason why a purpose built portable electrostatic headphone setup wouldn't be desirable. The SR-002 is a phenomenal IEM and at the price offers unparalleled performance, so it follows that an electrostatic headphone purpose built for portability would likely outperform it's dynamic peers in that arena as well.


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## Tinkerer

elrod said:


> SR-007 Omega II Mk1 Ear Pads and Head Pad...
> 
> Posted in a help forum here, was told I should post here - if faux pas I apologize and mods can delete prior thread.
> 
> ...


 
  
 All the Omega 2 Mk I and Mk II parts outside the cord are interchangeable. The only difference is the modern ear pads are partly real leather now and the headband has Mk II stamped on it.
  
 The Stax USA stuff is genuine brown Mk I old stock.


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## astrostar59

elrod said:


> I'm trying to get myself eju-macated on the Stax SR-007 omega II MK1 before I look into possibly buying a pair.


 
 I would read some more. The sound of the 007s is different depending which version and year you buy. IMO the latest MK2 A is superb, but like I said, ask around, don't take my word for it.
  
 IMO the 'right' 007 is still somewhat a bargain.


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## zolkis

elrod said:


> Browsing around I get the impression that the original brown OEM ear pads and head pad have been discontinued for the Omega II/MK1. Here is an example of a quote I found online:"Unfortunately, the original brown color parts are out of production, and so I could only source black color parts from Stax" This person also mentions they also couldn't get the original brown Omega II/Mk1 head pad for the same reason. However, I go to the Stax USA website and they state that they carry the STAXSR007EP and STAXSR007HP in brown. Am I missing something? Are the brown ear pads/head pad at StaxUSA the same as the originals? If different, how?


 
  
 The original ear pads on my 007 were thick brown sheep leather. I bought new ones from someone a few years back, that was brown but thin leather. I liked that more than the old one. That may be a newer version of the "brown 007" pads. I am not aware of more versions of the brown 007 pads.
  
 The black 007 pads are also thick, leather with a pleather flap. All of these are interchangeable (as Tinkerer mentioned) at least as far as dimensions go. However, due to different sourcing on the foam and leather and craftmanship, they do sound slightly different. As I said many times here, when the time comes I would definitely buy 009 ear pads to the 007 as well, and use them without the springs.


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## elrod

astrostar59 said:


> I would read some more. The sound of the 007s is different depending which version and year you buy. IMO the latest MK2 A is superb, but like I said, ask around, don't take my word for it.
> 
> IMO the 'right' 007 is still somewhat a bargain.


 

 Yeah I was kinda eyeing the omega II MK1 in SN range of 70xxx -71xxx. I realize there could be issues with the age of them and parts being worn, hence is why I'm asking about the soft parts.
  
 On the MK2 A. are you referring to the Stax fart mod or the un-modded version? Can you still send to Japan for warranty work if you're in another country or are you screwed?


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## astrostar59

elrod said:


> Yeah I was kinda eyeing the omega II MK1 in SN range of 70xxx -71xxx. I realize there could be issues with the age of them and parts being worn, hence is why I'm asking about the soft parts.
> 
> On the MK2 A. are you referring to the Stax fart mod or the un-modded version? Can you still send to Japan for warranty work if you're in another country or are you screwed?


 
 I have the 007A Silver 2015 (bought from PJ) but the current black 007 MK2 Black is the same according to others who have it. It sounds great. I would AVOID the MK2 black ver 2 between the MK1 and maybe 2012. It sounds flat and lifeless to me. I had the black MK2 about 2011 and it was disappointing. The current 007A silver is great, a bargain and more transparent and fast than the earlier MK2s. ALL in my experience and others may get mad / argue black is white / go ape. Some may have good examples of the MK2 Black but it is tricky how to know before you get it home. Stax say nothing about changes to the drivers, and serial numbers don't make sense to anyone either. Safer to buy a later 007 IMO. Luckily I sold off my Black Mk2.
  
 The MK1 is really old now, might be risky. I have heard the MK1 against my 007A and it is so close seems no point, go for newer IMO.


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## Arthrumus

I think the safest bet is just to buy new and avoid the used market all together for the 007. Too many bad years and no definitive way to know what revision you're getting into.


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## rgs9200m

Why all this obsession with the 007 mk1? The current model is just spectacular sounding to my ears; no mods, straight out of the box, just a vanilla Kgss-hv to drive it. And to me it's one of the comfy-est headphones out there of any type with its well-cushioned pads and simple but ingenious fitting design, like great shoes, feeling better to me than even the HD800.
 (I'm not even sure what it's called; Mk2.5 or something? Help me out here. It's basic black.)
 My 009 sits forlorn in my drawer most of the time while I usually reach for the 007. I wouldn't change a thing in the way it sounds.


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## martyn73

arthrumus said:


> The srs-002 system is remarkably good if the eartip design agrees with your anatomy. It's not a 009 but it is still phenomenal as a portable electrostatic setup.



The SRS-002 would benefit from custom ear tips and comments over the years suggest that fit is hit and miss with the basic looking stock tips. I will find out if tips can be made.


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## Michgelsen

The problem with getting a second-hand 007A or Mk.2 is that it is slightly more difficult to find out whether you have a 'good' or 'less good' version. If you get a Mk.1, you're pretty much guaranteed to get a good one. While some have reported minor differences between Mk.1s, with others disagreeing on this point, as far as I know all Mk.1s are superb in their own right, whether or not the small differences exist. There are no Mk.1s to avoid.
  
 Buying new is not always an option for everybody, simply because of cost. Paying more for a Mk.1 than a new Mk.2 seems a bit silly in that light, if it's true that the current Mk.2 is very good again.
  
 Edit: this point has been discussed before, and everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but in my opinion a mint but used Mk.1 is no more risky to buy than a new Mk.2. Each can/will fail if you mistreat it, each will last decades if you take proper care of it.


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## elrod

My thoughts pretty much lean to what Michgelsen says.
  
 I hear the newer SR-007A/MKII sound pretty good, but they can have the volume leveling issues. So with the SR-007A you'd be screwed for warranty, correct? (I live in the USA) Doing the port mod would also void the warranty too I assume.
  
 Got champagne taste with beer money. The 009 are out of reach for me, so it's down the 007a/MKII and MK1's. I'm trying to get the most bang for my buck and my hope is when I do get something, I'll be satisfied with it. I can't afford to collect multiple headphone willy nilly for comparison, and I don't have the resource here in the Denver area to borrow for listening evaluations.
  
 That's why I'm leaning towards a pair of gently used MK1's - I here they sound wonderful, scale up beautifully with your equipment, and that other than the SZ1's, everything else in the MK1 family is pretty comparable with possibly small variations here and there. I hear the 007A and MK1 with SZ2 SN's are pretty good, but the rest of the family can be hit or miss, or too forward, which isn't my cup of tea
  
 I have a pretty revealing system running a Decware CSP3 preamp and a Yamaha B-2 v-fet power amp, which is known for it's tube like sound with SS power. I'm getting a custom made energizer which uses Lundahl trannies. Everything I've read just makes me feel like the the Omega II's would be a wonderful fit with what I've got.
  
 Wouldn't surprise me if I have some thoughts messed up here - just so much contradictory info out there, it's hard to keep it all straight. If I need correcting, correct me please! All I ask is that you tell me what your experiences are, and not what you've heard.


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## Blackmore

Looking for some feedback about ECC99 tubes rolling in Stax SRM 600LE amp or any other, modified Stax amps that can use them.
  
 From what I could find, there is only few available, which are:
  
 JJ Tesla normal
 JJ Tesla gold pins
 NOS 6N6P Russian made
  
 E182CC - but I am not sure if this tube can be used, however, they do mention it online.
  
 Any thoughts?
  
 THX


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## Michgelsen

elrod said:


> My thoughts pretty much lean to what Michgelsen says.
> 
> I hear the newer SR-007A/MKII sound pretty good, but they can have the volume leveling issues. So with the SR-007A you'd be screwed for warranty, correct? (I live in the USA) Doing the port mod would also void the warranty too I assume.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The port mod is reversible, so you could undo it if you need the warranty. If you import from Japan, getting warranty will be difficult although you can send it back to Japan for servicing. There was a post from someone a few years ago about this, saying that it was a painful process taking many months, although this was about an Airbow headphone IIRC (which is a modified Stax). I think it's safe to say that buying a used Mk.1 or a new A from Japan will get you about the same level of warranty, if you get what I mean. Just don't step on the cable while wearing the earspeakers, and you'll be fine. Cable issues are the most common failure of the 007.
  
 I believe the newest Mk.2s have a SZ-3 serial number by the way. The SZ-2 is the earlier Mk.2 / A.
 It just occured to me now that SZ may stand for Stax Omega, as the last letter Z of our alphabet is a 'translation' from the last letter Ω​ of the Greek alphabet. No idea whether Stax meant it this way, but it's a funny coincidence.


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## ToroFiestaSol

elrod said:


> My thoughts pretty much lean to what Michgelsen says.
> 
> I hear the newer SR-007A/MKII sound pretty good, but they can have the volume leveling issues. So with the SR-007A you'd be screwed for warranty, correct? (I live in the USA) Doing the port mod would also void the warranty too I assume.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had the exact same dilemma, this is what I'll do:
  
 Get new 007A from Amazon, I live in Spain and in Amazon.es there is a japanese seller that has 007A for 1840€, shipping and taxes included, so no customs surprise and short waiting time, no worries like buying from Price Japan. 99.5% of possibilities that is the last version, because 007A is always backordered and Spritzer report on new "mk2.9"revision (the last and best one) dates from may 2015.
 When buying from Japan, I'll not have warranty in Spain, so I'll do the port mod (for me, this is crucial to get them sounding right).
 Plan is to paid a professional builder to make a KGSS, which, if well done with quality parts and a decent chassis, costs between 1200-1500€.
 Cost of the setup is 3000-3300€ , but is the best price-quality ratio with 007, because it needs a very powerful and linear amplifier.
 Good thing is that, if someday I want a better amp (let's say a Carbon), I can sell the KGSS without money loss (or very minor loss) and recover the initial inversion of the KGSS.
  
 Of course, we all have different tastes and plans to buy gear, but I think this is the best way to start with SR-007.


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## astrostar59

torofiestasol said:


> I had the exact same dilemma, this is what I'll do:
> 
> Get new 007A from Amazon, I live in Spain and in Amazon.es there is a japanese seller that has 007A for 1840€, shipping and taxes included, so no customs surprise and short waiting time, no worries like buying from Price Japan. 99.5% of possibilities that is the last version, because 007A is always backordered and Spritzer report on new "mk2.9"revision (the last and best one) dates from may 2015.
> When buying from Japan, I'll not have warranty in Spain, so I'll do the port mod (for me, this is crucial to get them sounding right).
> ...


 

 Sounds like a plan. I live in Spain as well. I bought my 007A from PJ but before they went all quiet / no comms. I am not sure the port mod is so crucial? Have you asked Spritzer? My 2015 007A sounds great as is, and IMO is close to a 007 MK1 which I have heard recently. I don't feel the bass lift is an issue, but it might depend on your source.
  
 TBH the 007s warm signature works really well in many modern DACs, less hassles than the 009s IMO. The 009 is better but it needs a great and smooth sounding source.


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## ToroFiestaSol

astrostar59 said:


> Sounds like a plan. I live in Spain as well. I bought my 007A from PJ but before they went all quiet / no comms. I am not sure the port mod is so crucial? Have you asked Spritzer? My 2015 007A sounds great as is, and IMO is close to a 007 MK1 which I have heard recently. I don't feel the bass lift is an issue, but it might depend on your source.
> 
> TBH the 007s warm signature works really well in many modern DACs, less hassles than the 009s IMO. The 009 is better but it needs a great and smooth sounding source.


 
  
 They're lovely stock, but I like the port mod because it makes bass more extended and tighter, vocals pop out more because of this, the sound is more neutral but without losing that beautiful tone of the 007.
 I like neutral and non fatiguing audio transducers so this is gold for me, YMMV but is the real deal for my tastes.


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## oktapod

I'm pleased to announce that I have ordered a pair of SR-L700 to replace the SR-404 Signatures that I bought (as a package) with the SRM-006t amp.  
  
 Much as I loved the sound of the 404S/006t, that little niggling idea to buy a pair of L700s kept, um, niggling, and I gave in.  I didn't consider 007s or 009s of any form at this stage, as that would commit me to an amp change at some point.  
  
 I shall post my thoughts when I get them (end of next week or thereabouts).  Unfortunately, I sold the 404 Signatures quite easily and so won't be able to do a direct comparison, instead relying on (fallible) audio memory.  I do still have my HD800/Phonitor combo, but as the 404S/006t sounded a tad better than that setup from the off, I imagine that L700/006t will be comfortably ahead.


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## LaCuffia

Cool....would be interested in your views since I might get the L700 later this year.


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## zolkis

There has been such a positive hype on this forum about the Japanese  SR-007A (with silver colored housing) that I have just bought one. I have heard a couple of 007 Mk2's that didn't impress, but I guess I needed to get the current 007A in order to arrive to my own conclusion about the issue.
  
 I will compare it with my early 007 Mk1 (referring to the L700 and the 009 as well), in 3 configurations: 1) both in stock form, 2) both with the currently available EP-007 black ear pads, 3) both with my modded 009 ear pads. 
  
 You see (Astrostar), I trusted you with my money... that I will lose by selling either the 007A or the 007 Mk1 . I want to believe in miracles! 
  
 Justice will come in about 2-3 weeks, hopefully with comparative measurements as well. At least buyers will know better what they buy .


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## Tinkerer

As another 007 Mk I early owner, I'm very interested in your impressions.


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## joseph69

zolkis said:


> There has been such a positive hype on this forum about the Japanese  SR-007A (with silver colored housing) that I have just bought one. I have heard a couple of 007 Mk2's that didn't impress, but I guess I needed to get the current 007A Japanese version (with silver housing) in order to arrive to my own conclusion about the issue.
> 
> I will compare it with my early 007 Mk1 (referring to the L700 and the 009 as well), in 3 configurations: 1) both in stock form, 2) both with the currently available EP-007 black ear pads, 3) both with my modded 009 ear pads.
> 
> ...


 
 I just purchased a pair of domestic 007Mk2 from Justin, and from what I understand the only difference between the import 007-A Mkll is the color, not the sound signsture as long as their both from the current years being '15 and up? I haven't had the chance to hear mine being I haven't had an amp for quite a few months now since I'm waiting for my BHSE.


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## zolkis

joseph69 said:


> I just purchased a pair of domestic 007Mk2 from Justin, and from what I understand the only difference between the import 007-A Mkll is the color, not the sound signsture as long as their both from the current years being '15 and up?


 
  
 OK, so we can assume that all current versions (black 007 Mk2 and silver 007A) have the same driver and sound the same. It makes sense .


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## joseph69

zolkis said:


> OK, so we can assume that all current versions (black 007 Mk2 and silver 007A) have the same driver and sound the same. It makes sense .


 
 I hope so.


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## CalvinW

What are the differences between the 323s and the new 353x beside the addition of balanced input?


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## zolkis

calvinw said:


> What are the differences between the 323s and the new 353x beside the addition of balanced input?


 
  
 My listening impression is the 353x sounds slightly better even from single-ended inputs.


----------



## zolkis

I have bought some gear from a local person, and it turned out the gentleman has a Stax SR-Omega and lives near... Imagine the joy...
  
 My first impression was that everything was done just right. Very comfortable, but the ear pads are shallow and very well designed. I was staring in doubt: I arrived to the same conclusion with my pad mods, that I want pads go in the direction of being more shallow and keeping distance like the HD800 pads do. The SR-Omega pads are just like that, therefore in my book it steals the crown both from the HD800 and the 009 pads. 
  
 The arcs were a bit disappointing, but the overall solution is likely better than with the 007, since they seem to ring less. I have read the SR-Omega were a bit fragile, but I didn't have that impression when holding it in my hands. It's very well built.
  
 The sound... easily the best Stax that I have ever heard. Surely I liked it more than the 009. The owner has had two 009's over time and they were defeated. Unfortunately I didn't have my 007 with me, but the Omega 1 reminds me more to my modded 007 Mk1 than to the 009.
 Based on memory and first impression, the SR-Omega seems to be  the most natural and best sounding Stax headphone. Everything sounded musical,  right and in place, sound stage was wonderful as well. It's pity it is near unobtainable, and if yes, the price is prohibitive.
  
 Hopefully I will be able to do a more proper comparison some time (maybe 1-2 months) later, when my amp is ready and he gets his new amp as well. Things are coming together... I secretly hope (and now have some cues) that my modded 007 Mk1 gets quite close to the SR-Omega, actually.


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## 3X0

Interestingly the SR-Omega earpads are vinyl and thus considerably stiffer than the 007/009 pads of any variety.
  
 I spent about 40 hours comparing the 009 and Omega closely (across both the Carbon and T2) and I felt the latter was audibly superior in tone, bass, imaging and resolution.
  
 The 009 sounds more "clear" but this appears to be an issue of hyperclarity/tone as its resolution is certainly inferior.


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## elrod

zolkis said:


> OK, so we can assume that all current versions (black 007 Mk2 and silver 007A) have the same driver and sound the same. It makes sense .


 

 I thought what was just as important in the SN. I was under the impression that the SZ2 prefix used the same driver as the Omega II MK1, and the SZ3 is the new driver which is more forward. Seems most of the newer MK2's have the SZ3 while the 007A's are still using SZ2...


----------



## JimL11

blackmore said:


> Looking for some feedback about ECC99 tubes rolling in Stax SRM 600LE amp or any other, modified Stax amps that can use them.
> 
> From what I could find, there is only few available, which are:
> 
> ...


 
 As a general rule, the only totally safe tube rolling is substituting the same type tube from a different manufacturer.  Another general rule is that a competent designer designs his circuit for the specified tube type - this means that substituting a different tube type is likely to give suboptimal results, unless the designer specifically states otherwise.  For "similar" tubes you have to look at the tube specifications.  In the case of an electrostatic amp such as the 600LE you need to have a high plate voltage specification.  The 6N6P and E182CC have a specified max plate voltage of 300 volts.  The ECC99 has a maximum plate voltage spec of 400 volts, a significant difference.  The 6N6P and E182CC may be usable substitutes in other situations, but not for stat amps, where the standing voltage likely exceeds 300 volts.  In other words, in plain English, there is NO safe substitute for the ECC99 in this particular situation.  DO NOT put  6N6P or E182CC tubes in your 600LE unless you hate your amp and want to blow it up, and incidentally lose all warranty coverage by putting in the wrong tube.


----------



## Sorrodje

Is the SRM600LE a worthy upgrade from the SRM-T1 ?


----------



## Blackmore

Thanks very much for your reply, I suspected this. Also, was bit surprised that there are none of the equivalent NOS ECC99 out there, say like 12AU7 or 6SN7.
  
 Quote:


jiml11 said:


> As a general rule, the only totally safe tube rolling is substituting the same type tube from a different manufacturer.  Another general rule is that a competent designer designs his circuit for the specified tube type - this means that substituting a different tube type is likely to give suboptimal results, unless the designer specifically states otherwise.  For "similar" tubes you have to look at the tube specifications.  In the case of an electrostatic amp such as the 600LE you need to have a high plate voltage specification.  The 6N6P and E182CC have a specified max plate voltage of 300 volts.  The ECC99 has a maximum plate voltage spec of 400 volts, a significant difference.  The 6N6P and E182CC may be usable substitutes in other situations, but not for stat amps, where the standing voltage likely exceeds 300 volts.  In other words, in plain English, there is NO safe substitute for the ECC99 in this particular situation.  DO NOT put  6N6P or E182CC tubes in your 600LE unless you hate your amp and want to blow it up, and incidentally lose all warranty coverage by putting in the wrong tube.


----------



## JimL11

sorrodje said:


> Is the SRM600LE a worthy upgrade from the SRM-T1 ?


 

 No idea in terms of sound, but from what I understand, it is basically the same design, except with the 6CG7/6FQ7 output tubes of the T1 replaced with ECC99 tubes, and lower value plate resistors so running at a higher output current,but basically the same circuit, similar passive power supply, etc. So, I would expect somewhat more power but  not a significant upgrade in sound quality. However, according to spritzer, there have been reliability problems with the 600 - apparently the output resistors tend to fail.
  
 In my opinion a better upgrade would be to substitute cascode constant current sources for the output resistors. That would take the design close to the KGST, lacking only the regulated power supply


----------



## Mach3

Anyone here had any experience with the SR-207 vs the SR-007 all version and the SR-009.
What I'm after is impression comparing the three. Like bass, mids, treble, clarity, soundstage. Would be much appreciated.
I currently own both the SR-207 and the SR-L300. I have modded the SR-207 heavily and it hands down destroy my HD800 with the SDR mod & Anax 3.0.
3D imaging/clarity, deep and not coloured impactful bass. I was so stock on the detail retrieval of the SR-207 compared to my HD800 which is a rare one with no 6Khz spike.
Being the basic system as stated by Stax I wonder how much more better is the SR-00X considering it like 5-10x the cost of the SR-207 which is now discontinue.


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## zolkis

mach3 said:


> Anyone here had any experience with the SR-207 vs the SR-007 all version and the SR-009.
> What I'm after is impression comparing the three. Like bass, mids, treble, clarity, soundstage. Would be much appreciated.
> I currently own both the SR-207 and the SR-L300. I have modded the SR-207 heavily and it hands down destroy my HD800 with the SDR mod & Anax 3.0.
> 3D imaging/clarity, deep and not coloured impactful bass. I was so stock on the detail retrieval of the SR-207 compared to my HD800 which is a rare one with no 6Khz spike.
> Being the basic system as stated by Stax I wonder how much more better is the SR-00X considering it like 5-10x the cost of the SR-207 which is now discontinue.




Well, it's long. I'd say just be happy with the (modded) 207, and try to listen to yourself to the others when you have the chance. Until such opportunity, just enjoy life .
For me the 007 Mk1 was well justified in every area (sound stage, tone, balance, bass, treble, mids, dynamics, everything), especially after mods (BTW I need to update the mods thread).
The 009 is also quite much better than the 207, even the L700, especially on good amps.
Now whether is it worth is a totally subjective thing, only you can answer that, based on your own impressions.


----------



## Tinkerer

mach3 said:


> Anyone here had any experience with the SR-207 vs the SR-007 all version and the SR-009.
> What I'm after is impression comparing the three. Like bass, mids, treble, clarity, soundstage. Would be much appreciated.
> I currently own both the SR-207 and the SR-L300. I have modded the SR-207 heavily and it hands down destroy my HD800 with the SDR mod & Anax 3.0.
> 3D imaging/clarity, deep and not coloured impactful bass. I was so stock on the detail retrieval of the SR-207 compared to my HD800 which is a rare one with no 6Khz spike.
> Being the basic system as stated by Stax I wonder how much more better is the SR-00X considering it like 5-10x the cost of the SR-207 which is now discontinue.





I had a 207 and my 007 Mk I at the same time, and gave them the Highlander treatment like I always do with my primary headphones. I liked the 207 a lot. Very neutral for a lambda. Good flat bass if you can get it sealed right. The 007 Mk I had a very similar sound signature and also beat it in every category. You can hear a lot more details. About as close to a straight upgrade as you can get IMO.

The only adjustment I had to make to the 007 Mk I was give it a 5db boost below 60ish hz because of the shelf you can see in the measurements. So you don't have the dead flat bass of the 207 without that EQ. The bass is more impactful than the 207 however.


----------



## Mach3

zolkis said:


> Well, it's long. I'd say just be happy with the (modded) 207, and try to listen to yourself to the others when you have the chance. Until such opportunity, just enjoy life
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your impression. On a scale of 1 to 10 for detail retrieval, what would you say it is for your 007 Mk1 compared to the 009 and the 207 if you don't mind me asking? 


tinkerer said:


> I had a 207 and my 007 Mk I at the same time, and gave them the Highlander treatment like I always do with my primary headphones. I liked the 207 a lot. Very neutral for a lambda. Good flat bass if you can get it sealed right. The 007 Mk I had a very similar sound signature and also beat it in every category. You can hear a lot more details. About as close to a straight upgrade as you can get IMO.
> 
> The only adjustment I had to make to the 007 Mk I was give it a 5db boost below 60ish hz because of the shelf you can see in the measurements. So you don't have the dead flat bass of the 207 without that EQ. The bass is more impactful than the 207 however.


 
  
 Much appreciated for your response. Sorry for asking, but what do you mean regarding the highlander treatment. Also on a 1 to 10 for detail retrieval, what would you say it is for your 007 Mk1 compared to the 207.


----------



## purk

3x0 said:


> Interestingly the SR-Omega earpads are vinyl and thus considerably stiffer than the 007/009 pads of any variety.
> 
> I spent about 40 hours comparing the 009 and Omega closely (across both the Carbon and T2) and I felt the latter was audibly superior in tone, bass, imaging and resolution.
> 
> The 009 sounds more "clear" but this appears to be an issue of hyperclarity/tone as its resolution is certainly inferior.


 
 That's interesting regarding the SR-009 vs. original Omega.  However, I'm not going to invest any money into the OI given that it  is prone to breaking down.  What do you think of the T2 vs. Carbon?  I prefer the T2 obviously.


----------



## Tinkerer

mach3 said:


> Much appreciated for your response. Sorry for asking, but what do you mean regarding the highlander treatment. Also on a 1 to 10 for detail retrieval, what would you say it is for your 007 Mk1 compared to the 207.


 
  
 Highlander just means there can be be only one. A and B them then keep the best one. Otherwise I'd have a horde of headphones.
  
 207 is about a 7 compared to the 007Mk I as a 10. You can tell the difference immediately, even against a noisy background. And that's not to dis the 207. It beat my old planars and stuff I used to own that were double and triple the price of a stax starter set.


----------



## 3X0

purk said:


> That's interesting regarding the SR-009 vs. original Omega.  However, I'm not going to invest any money into the OI given that it  is prone to breaking down.  What do you think of the T2 vs. Carbon?  I prefer the T2 obviously.


 
 Do you still have your R10s? I would honestly feel more uneasy owning one of those...
  
 My recollection is that the Carbon sounds considerably drier and constricted with less depth. The bass via the Carbon also sounded less powerful, extended and defined especially when it came to sub-bass performance with the 009.
  
 The most arresting difference appears to be in the sense of "ambiance" and resolution of spatial cues that only the T2 seems to be able to pull off. I'm not sure this quality of the T2 can be put into measurements but it is something you instantly understand when you hear it.


----------



## LaCuffia

The 207 was great for the time I had it. I currently have a 404LE and while I never had them at the same time to make a direct comparison I just find the 404LE to be astoundingly good. It's on another level than the 207. So curious as to how a 007 would compare to a 404LE and whether it would be that much better. In other words, would the 007 be the 10/10 and the 404LE the 7/10 or is the gap smaller.


----------



## hardpike

lacuffia said:


> The 207 was great for the time I had it. I currently have a 404LE and while I never had them at the same time to make a direct comparison I just find the 404LE to be astoundingly good. It's on another level than the 207. So curious as to how a 007 would compare to a 404LE and whether it would be that much better. In other words, would the 007 be the 10/10 and the 404LE the 7/10 or is the gap smaller.



Did you have the same amplification with the 207 than the 404 LE?


----------



## Earspeakers

mach3 said:


> On a scale of 1 to 10 for detail retrieval, what would you say it is for your 007 Mk1 compared to the 009 and the 207 if you don't mind me asking?


 
 009 has the best detail, 007mk1 next and 207 last in that lineup. If you're looking for detail one of the old think membrane lambda pro's is probably king, but might have other aspects you might not like. The new L700 is the best all rounder IMO. 
  
 404LE is one of my all time favs too, it's pretty close to a late edition 404 if you can't find one.


----------



## LaCuffia

I have the SRM-T1 with the 404LE. With the 207 just the 252. I guess the 207 would be even better with the T1 but never had a chance for that pairing.


----------



## hardpike

Many thanks for the answer


----------



## purk

3x0 said:


> Do you still have your R10s? I would honestly feel more uneasy owning one of those...
> 
> My recollection is that the Carbon sounds considerably drier and constricted with less depth. The bass via the Carbon also sounded less powerful, extended and defined especially when it came to sub-bass performance with the 009.
> 
> The most arresting difference appears to be in the sense of "ambiance" and resolution of spatial cues that only the T2 seems to be able to pull off. I'm not sure this quality of the T2 can be put into measurements but it is something you instantly understand when you hear it.


 
 True about the R10 but it is also a bit overblown regarding the liability.  If you treat them with care and store them in mostly climate control environment ...they are fine IMO.  I used to live in southeast asia and I can see the R10 don't do too well there due to hot and humid condition.
  
 Regarding the T2, I'm with you.  They just sound "right" and "superbly musical".  Just no weakness IMO.  My Carbon is more or less the same way but I do I enjoy it immensely too.  Maybe I'm just a tube guy.


----------



## 3X0

purk said:


> True about the R10 but it is also a bit overblown regarding the liability.  If you treat them with care and store them in mostly climate control environment ...they are fine IMO.  I used to live in southeast asia and I can see the R10 don't do too well there due to hot and humid condition.
> 
> Regarding the T2, I'm with you.  They just sound "right" and "superbly musical".  Just no weakness IMO.  My Carbon is more or less the same way but I do I enjoy it immensely too.  Maybe I'm just a tube guy.


 
 FWIW I think the Omega has at least one or two people that are capable of repairing it, and from what I remember even the R10 had some potential to be saved according to Chinese forums.
  
 To that end I think you owe it to yourself to pick up an Omega if the opportunity arises. The qualities we love about the T2 are extremely synergistic with the Omega, moreso than any other transducer I have tried with it.


----------



## miko64




----------



## astrostar59

purk said:


> Regarding the T2, I'm with you.  They just sound "right" and "superbly musical".  Just no weakness IMO.  My Carbon is more or less the same way but I do I enjoy it immensely too.  Maybe I'm just a tube guy.


 
 All IMO.
 I am coming to think in a high end system using HPs and ones that are very fast and transparent like the 009s, having solid state right through to the end may be leading to too much treble energy or sugar on the cake? I don't know why but tubes seem to handle the upper treble smoother than most solid state amps or DACs I have heard. That is not to say there are many fantastic SS amps around, just ones I have heard and less than 15K. The SIC FETs in the Carbon may be the closest to tubes (a quote by you know who) so far. 
 i.e. are tubes linear and smoother than FETs?
  
 What does that means?
  
 I think it means tubes are not necessarily rolled off over warm and syrupy devices many seem to think historically. Old design amps (some) can sound rolled off at the extremes and that may have led to this misconception. There is scientific evidence out there that tubes used in a good circuit can have a frequency response way beyond the human hearing spectrum.
  
 I am not a techie, I just listen to what I hear in hifi gear, and I somehow ended up liking and living with tubed DAC designs for the last 15 years, and later adding solid state power amplifiers and speakers and solid state electrostatic amplifiers and Stax HPs on the end of those tubed DACs.
  
 So cut to the chase, I am trying to say I think having some tubes in the mix somewhere, albeit DAC, pre-amplifier or power amplifier or electrostatic amplifier, it seems to make the system more real and an end game setup (for some).
  
 I have enjoyed immensely the Carbon fed by my AMR tubed DAC and using the 009s. It is a slightly warm and a bit polite DAC but the 009s seem to like it a lot. I am hoping my Audio Note DAC 5 Special does the same thing, even better maybe.
  
 Anyway, it would be super interesting to hear a top SS DAC (MSB or TotalDAC maybe) feeding the BHSE and 009s, and pitch that against a tubed NOS DAC (Audio Note or Lampizator maybe) feeding the Carbon and 009s. Maybe it would have more in common as regards sound signature than not?
  
 Lets face it, everyone talks of accuracy and transparency, tech specs, detail detail. But if the various component parts in the system don't get on it leads IMO to AudioGon. The goal IMO is to find the illusive parts that fit together and create magic. That is why I like this hobby and enjoy the chase, even if it nearly bankrupts me....


----------



## lojay

3x0 said:


> FWIW I think the Omega has at least one or two people that are capable of repairing it, and from what I remember even the R10 had some potential to be saved according to Chinese forums.
> 
> To that end I think you owe it to yourself to pick up an Omega if the opportunity arises. The qualities we love about the T2 are extremely synergistic with the Omega, moreso than any other transducer I have tried with it.




I love my T2, nothing really beats it. But thanks to you I'm probably going to do some Omega hunting!!


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

I don't like to "voice" systems or paying tons of money for a tube dac/amp with 10% distortion above 1khz.
 In my opinion, amplifiers should be neutral and powerful, I like balanced solid states designs, pure class A with no feedback, like Gryphon amps for example.
  
 For example "009 sounds harsh", solution: get 007 or another headphone, the problem is 009 not the partnering equipment.
  
 That's my opinion of course, not the universal truth.


----------



## jibzilla

3x0 said:


> FWIW I think the Omega has at least one or two people that are capable of repairing it, and from what I remember even the R10 had some potential to be saved according to Chinese forums.
> 
> To that end I think you owe it to yourself to pick up an Omega if the opportunity arises. The qualities we love about the T2 are extremely synergistic with the Omega, moreso than any other transducer I have tried with it.


 
  
 There is an Omega for sale, 9000 euros. My ultimate trifecta is for sale in fact which is the Sony r10, Omega original, and he-90. Sennheiser, Sony and Stax in all their vintage glory. With currency exchange around $40k...


----------



## mulveling

torofiestasol said:


> I don't like to "voice" systems or paying tons of money for a tube dac/amp with 10% distortion above 1khz.
> In my opinion, amplifiers should be neutral and powerful, I like balanced solid states designs, pure class A with no feedback, like Gryphon amps for example.
> 
> For example "009 sounds harsh", solution: get 007 or another headphone, the problem is 009 not the partnering equipment.
> ...


 
 The BHSE (and I presume DIY T2) has extremely low distortion across the audio band. Justin published some BHSE (though a tube/SS hybrid) distortion numbers a while back -- even without comparison to other amps, they were extremely impressive numbers; no 10% THD in sight. Very impressive especially considering the 54-60dB of gain in an electrostatic amp:
  


> Originally Posted by *justin w.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 And I've found that I do much prefer to have tube amplification somewhere in my 009 chain. And no harshness in the BHSE/009 with British/Mullard EL34 tubes. But I have heard harshness w/ the 009 in certain other all-SS amps, which I'm pretty sure would measure higher in THD than the BHSE.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

mulveling said:


> The BHSE (and I presume DIY T2) has extremely low distortion across the audio band. Justin published some BHSE (though a tube/SS hybrid) distortion numbers a while back -- even without comparison to other amps, they were extremely impressive numbers; no 10% THD in sight. Very impressive especially considering the 54-60dB of gain in an electrostatic amp:
> 
> And I've found that I do much prefer to have tube amplification somewhere in my 009 chain. And no harshness in the BHSE/009 with British/Mullard EL34 tubes. But I have heard harshness w/ the 009 in certain other all-SS amps, which I'm pretty sure would measure higher in THD than the BHSE.


 
  
 I know, I wasn't talking about BHSE/T2 (which are hybrid and not full tube amps), I was talking about tube DACs, set tube amps, etc, like the Audio Note level 5 DAC for example.


----------



## JimL11

mulveling said:


> The BHSE (and I presume DIY T2) has extremely low distortion across the audio band. Justin published some BHSE (though a tube/SS hybrid) distortion numbers a while back -- even without comparison to other amps, they were extremely impressive numbers; no 10% THD in sight. Very impressive especially considering the 54-60dB of gain in an electrostatic amp:
> 
> And I've found that I do much prefer to have tube amplification somewhere in my 009 chain. And no harshness in the BHSE/009 with British/Mullard EL34 tubes. But I have heard harshness w/ the 009 in certain other all-SS amps, which I'm pretty sure would measure higher in THD than the BHSE.


 

 I wouldn't be so quick to draw a correlation between distortion and harshness.  When solid state amps first came out, the meter readers were astonished at the low distortion readings they generated, but the ear told a different story.  Now some of that was due to high feedback in those early amps, but even today with low feedback or no feedback designs, solid state designs generally have lower distortion readings than tube designs (check out a few issues of Stereophile, where they regularly measure amp distortion).  IIRC, KG posted that his Megatron, which basically uses tubes for all signal processing, with solid state elements in support roles (e.g. current sources), had around 0.1% distortion, which is 10-30-fold higher than the BHSE, and I haven't heard of anyone complaining it sounds harsh.  And I would be willing to bet that my SRX Plus, which also uses tubes for signal processing and solid state current sources, would measure in the same ballpark.  Now for a little history, back in the 30s to 50s when tubes were the only amplifying devices, the consensus was that THD < 0.1% was inaudible.  Distortion, at least the crude total harmonic distortion, doesn't really seem to correlate with sound quality unless it's really bad.


----------



## zolkis

Is there correlation data between total odd harmonic distortion and subjective sound quality of amps? 

Also, there is an opinion that tube amps tend to have mostly even harmonic distortion, and most transistor amps have mostly odd harmonic distortion, but I wonder what actual data we have on this, and also on the correlation with subjective SQ.


----------



## zolkis

jibzilla said:


> There is an Omega for sale, 9000 euros.


 
  
 That is completely out of reality. That Polish guy is known for testing the market on how much crazy guys are ready to pay for an available rarity.
  
 The last SR-Omega sold for *4.454,86 *euros + 13 euros shipping on ebay Germany, and that's European price, i.e. higher than usual. Even that is half of what this guy is asking, and he keeps fishing.


----------



## 3X0

I think the most recent listing for the Omega that sold in the classifieds was actually asking for $8000US. No idea whether it sold for that much but it was spoken for within a week or two.

TBH it should certainly be worth more than the R10 or HE90 (on the basis of rarity and performance), either of which are fetching absurd prices right now.


----------



## Blackmore

Stax should release them again.


----------



## zolkis

blackmore said:


> Stax should release them again.


 
  
 I agree... I guess that's what the 009 was meant for. But I think the SR-Omega diaphragm cannot be made anymore?
 For what it's possible in reality, I'd be very interested in a 009 with tonality closer to the 007, or the SR-Omega. 
 Perhaps using slightly thicker diaphragm would help achieve that, but I am pretty sure Stax did their homework on that .
  
 BTW the 009 pads can be modded to do something like that, in two ways:
 - change the white styrol part of the pads stuffing to wool felt ring, or
 - add a crescent moon shaped thin foam strip to elevate the back of the stuffing a bit more.
  
 Both will make the sound stage larger and the bass more prominent,  cut some of the 4K peak, and tame the treble (the first will tame the treble a bit more than the second).
 Materials do matter: wool felt density and make, or foam density and rigidity.
  
 However, after a while I reverted to the original pads, as overall I found they were closer to neutral with classical music. However, for other genres (jazz, instrumental, electronica etc), or just for more fun, the mods did make a positive impact.


----------



## purk

3x0 said:


> I think the most recent listing for the Omega that sold in the classifieds was actually asking for $8000US. No idea whether it sold for that much but it was spoken for within a week or two.
> 
> TBH it should certainly be worth more than the R10 or HE90 (on the basis of rarity and performance), either of which are fetching absurd prices right now.


 
 I once had a chance to buy one for around $2000 on ebay....what a major mistake!


----------



## Tinkerer

purk said:


> I once had a chance to buy one for around $2000 on ebay....what a major mistake!


 

 There were three that went for a little more than $3k on yahoo.japan just this last year. And original T2 #33 for similar money.


----------



## Blackmore

The link I found, yahoo I mean, T2+Omega were sold for USD 23k just a little over a month ago.


----------



## yates7592

Any other thoughts on Omega vs 009 out there?


----------



## Pale Rider

I heard an Omega years ago, but not in a comparative setting, and certainly have not been able to recently. 
  
 I have an SR-007 Mk1 [serial number 71xxx], and I have been listening to it quite a bit on my Carbon CC amp. I don't know that I like it better than my 009, but I like it different. A touch more lush, less hyper-resolving. I know that many refer to the 007 as "dark," but that's not a word I would choose.
  
 I have another set inbound with a lower serial number to see if there is a discernible difference. And in the meantime, I will be on the lookout for an original Omega.


----------



## Tinkerer

blackmore said:


> The link I found, yahoo I mean, T2+Omega were sold for USD 23k just a little over a month ago.


 

 Yeah, prices are a little high the last few months. Used to be you could grab all sorts of lambda frame headphones for under $200. You can still get some of the old amps like the SRM1, SRA 8,10S,12S for pretty cheap though.
  
 Oh, saw one of those 4070 TV station special edition closed lambda up right now. It's about $2k. Always cool to see the oddballs pop up.


----------



## Tinkerer

pale rider said:


> I heard an Omega years ago, but not in a comparative setting, and certainly have not been able to recently.
> 
> I have an SR-007 Mk1 [serial number 71xxx], and I have been listening to it quite a bit on my Carbon CC amp. I don't know that I like it better than my 009, but I like it different. A touch more lush, less hyper-resolving. I know that many refer to the 007 as "dark," but that's not a word I would choose.
> 
> I have another set inbound with a lower serial number to see if there is a discernible difference. And in the meantime, I will be on the lookout for an original Omega.


 

 Let us know the comparison between both when you get it in. Always interested in hearing the impressions between the 007 versions.


----------



## Pale Rider

tinkerer said:


> Let us know the comparison between both when you get it in. Always interested in hearing the impressions between the 007 versions.


 

 Sure thing. I definitely like the Mk1 better than the Mk2 I picked up from Price Japan. I like the 2, but to my ears, it sounds more characteristic of the 009 signature, and well, I already have one of those.


----------



## 3X0

tinkerer said:


> There were three that went for a little more than $3k on yahoo.japan just this last year. And original T2 #33 for similar money.


 
 I think they were broken or had other issues. I remember the Japanese->English translations included the word "junk" which isn't very promising.
  
 Considering the SR-009 still goes for beyond $3k these days I'd certainly think the Omega to be worth considerably more.


----------



## zolkis

tinkerer said:


> Always interested in hearing the impressions between the 007 versions.


 
  
 I've recently heard a SZ3-2xxx Mk2.5 vs a 703xx Mk1. Sounds quite different, more than I originally thought, with more bass slam, a bit darker and with somewhat coarser treble. The difference may be due to different springs and ear pads (deeper with the Mk2.5).
  
 The Mk1 is more balanced and more linear (though still dark), feels smoother and more flat. It's indeed closer to the SR-Ω.
  
 I assembled the Mk2.5 ear pads on the Mk1 and that did bring the sound closer to the Mk2.5 (more bass), but it still remained more balanced and more open sounding in character. 
  
 However, with some music types where bass is welcome I actually preferred the Mk2.5. Each to their own... My ear pad mods do make the sound more open, so I wonder if the Mk2.5 would make a better subject for mods when it comes to bass -But I also like the treble and mids of the Mk1 more.
  
 I became a bit tired of all the 007 controversy (different sound signatures between versions, mods needed to open up the sound etc). I also wish Stax could do a remake of the SR-Ω.
  
 At least give me an SR-Ω frame (the best Stax frame IMHO) to put my 007 Mk1 driver in . Has anyone noticed defect SR-Ω's for sale, or ones that have been repaired (by default with 007 Mk1 drivers)?


----------



## Tinkerer

3x0 said:


> I think they were broken or had other issues. I remember the Japanese->English translations included the word "junk" which isn't very promising.


 
  
 That's basically the seller lingo for "untested" on yahoo.japan. You see it on headphones without amps to test and vise versa all the time. I remember two of them were pretty worn looking but nothing looked busted. The real gamble would be whether they had Mk I drivers instead. No way of knowing that with the pics that were up at the time.


----------



## Tinkerer

zolkis said:


> I've recently heard a SZ3-2xxx Mk2.5 vs a 703xx Mk1. Sounds quite different, more than I originally thought, with more bass slam, a bit darker and with somewhat coarser treble. The difference may be due to different springs and ear pads (deeper with the Mk2.5).


 
  
 Was this the new ones you just got from Price Japan? And do you have the physical measurement difference between the old 70xxx brown pads and the ep-007's?


----------



## JimL11

zolkis said:


> Is there correlation data between total odd harmonic distortion and subjective sound quality of amps?
> 
> Also, there is an opinion that tube amps tend to have mostly even harmonic distortion, and most transistor amps have mostly odd harmonic distortion, but I wonder what actual data we have on this, and also on the correlation with subjective SQ.


 

 There have been a number of suggested ways to modify total harmonic distortion numbers to make them more consistent with subjective results.  For example, odd harmonics seem to be less tolerable, higher order harmonics seem to be more audible and less tolerable, intermodulation distortion seems to be less tolerable, etc, and there have been suggested remedies to try to weight the upper harmonics more heavily to try to adjust for this.  However none of these suggestions have achieved consensus recommendation, so we are stuck with THD.  Not the best state of affairs but there you are.


----------



## nemomec

zolkis said:


> tinkerer said:
> 
> 
> > Always interested in hearing the impressions between the 007 versions.
> ...


 
  
 Yes this is also my experience, the first versions of SR-007 MK1 up to SN 705xxx sounds closer to the original SR-Omega. The newer versions are slower and darker and not so balanced. The SR-009 is objectively seen the better SR-Omega and i think it was developed with the SR-Omega technologie but with a smaller diagram for lower distortion. On the other side the SR-Omega has more mid bass and a little bit more colouration that many people like. In the end its a decision of taste between the "ultra transparent and clear" SR-009 and the "powerfull high resolution" SR-Omega or the similar SR-007 MK1 first series.


----------



## Blackmore

The only way to stimulate Stax of getting the idea of remaking of original Omega is by writing them, however, you cant do this by e-mail anymore, only by writing an letter, but I dont see this happening.
 Personally, I have tried O2 many times, black color, thats all I know about their version, but to me they are darkish and I GUESS require something more powerfull to drive them than SRM 600LE, but even then, I have no idea if I really going to like them after all and 009 are simply speaker system price range up here.
  
  
*We abolished E-mail address "info@stax.co.jp", printed in a brochure.
 If you have any questions, please contact a distributor of the country where you get easy access.*


----------



## Tinkerer

nemomec said:


> Yes this is also my experience, the first versions of SR-007 MK1 up to SN 705xxx sounds closer to the original SR-Omega. The newer versions are slower and darker and not so balanced. The SR-009 is objectively seen the better SR-Omega and i think it was developed with the SR-Omega technologie but with a smaller diagram for lower distortion. On the other side the SR-Omega has more mid bass and a little bit more colouration that many people like. In the end its a decision of taste between the "ultra transparent and clear" SR-009 and the "powerfull high resolution" SR-Omega or the similar SR-007 MK1 first series.


 
  
 Just thought I'd add that Mk I Early types extend to at least SN707xx. Actually, wasn't the change to SZ1 the turnover to MK I Late?


----------



## zolkis

tinkerer said:


> Just thought I'd add that Mk I Early types extend to at least SN707xx. Actually, wasn't the change to SZ1 the turnover to MK I Late?


 
  
 That is hard to tell - only by listening I guess. Putting together info from 2 people (padam and spritzer), the first batch of Mk1 came with the old style carbon-fiber imitation box. Then there was a later batch that came in the new style box, but we don't know for sure where the "late" 7xxxx Mk1 batch started (it could be told only by listening) so the box stuff is likely speculation. Perhaps some materials sourcing has changed over time, they always do, pads especially, perhaps even diaphragm material (of the same spec but different make) but I don't think that correlates with the boxes.
  guess when Stax really made a change, it was reflected in the serial numbers: SZ1, SZ2, then a bigger change happened with the SZ3. The person who has most experience with 007 versions is spritzer, ask him on the other side .


----------



## zolkis

tinkerer said:


> Was this the new ones you just got from Price Japan? And do you have the physical measurement difference between the old 70xxx brown pads and the ep-007's?


 
  
 The recent (one year old) Mk2.5 SZ3 that I heard in comparison to my own Mk1 was only a local audition.
 The 007A order on amazon seemed to be stuck for a while, it got fishy and I have canceled it: I decided to buy an already known and tested second hand piece. I am not sure measurements will do justice to the differences I hear, but I will do them when I will have both kinds here for a prolonged testing.
  
 I could measure the brown pads vs black pads on my 007, but it does not make much sense, you hear more differences than you can measure. Their seal, firmness, thickness is slightly different, and that comes through differently when you wear them vs when you use a measurement coupler. I only use measurements to rule out obvious flaws, but a trained ear can provide a lot of relevant information on top of measurements. Mine are not so well trained but at least experienced .


----------



## nemomec

tinkerer said:


> Just thought I'd add that Mk I Early types extend to at least SN707xx. Actually, wasn't the change to SZ1 the turnover to MK I Late?


 
  
 The newest SR-007 MK1 that i know and sounds like the first series for me was the SN: 705xx with carbon box, i haven´t seen and heard a 706xx or 707xxx. SN 71xxx sounds different like the SN SZ1-xxxx and comes with the new box. There are a scattering with the SN 71xxx and SZ1-xxx pieces, some sounds very slow and dark some closer to the first series. The SR-007 MK2 series with SZ2-xxxx sounds all same to me and darker/smoother like the most MK1 versions. The SR-007 MK2 with serial MK3-xxxx sounds to weak for me, much darker and not so balanced, but i haven´t heard the newest SR-007 MK2 version.


----------



## Drumonron

Just ordered a black STAX SRM-727II from headamp.com and Justin will be modifying it for me.  
 Will be using this for my SR-007 and SR-009.  Thoughts?


----------



## zolkis

What mods? Including power supply (better caps etc)?
 When I heard a 727 II it was perhaps not the best available, but good enough. The problem that I have seen is quite low quality parts in the power supply (rectifier, capacitors, etc). I guess an outboard PS would be better for the 727 since the case is too small for a good one.


----------



## paradoxper

Feedback mod.


----------



## Drumonron

Headamp.com will be performing the feedback modification to the Stax SRM-727II. 
 I listen at low levels and after much research do believe this amp will have to do.
 I'm currently using the Stax SRM-006TII amp and was looking for a Solid State Stax.
 I'm happy with the 006TII for the 009 but I'm hoping this is an upgrade for both, my 007 and 009.


----------



## Pokemonn

drumonron said:


> Just ordered a black STAX SRM-727II from headamp.com and Justin will be modifying it for me.
> Will be using this for my SR-007 and SR-009.  Thoughts?


 

 I currently own stax 007t, 006t, 727(modded by me), 717, 252s. modded 727 sounds most refined than others, but slightly bright and hard.
 006t tamed 009 treble very well. so Im currently using 006t for 009. modded 727 doesn't make big jump IMO.
 and Stax phone demand tubes in somewhere audio chain imho, i agree with astrostar's previous posts.
 ..


----------



## Michgelsen

drumonron said:


> Just ordered a black STAX SRM-727II from headamp.com and Justin will be modifying it for me.
> Will be using this for my SR-007 and SR-009.  Thoughts?


 
  
 With feedback mod it is the best Stax amp currently available. Should you want more, you'll need to go for one of Kevin Gilmore's designs.
 I think the difference between a modified 727 and a 717 would be small, and I can tell you from experience that I have been happy with a 717 driving my 007 for many years now. There is some room for improvement, but ever since I have this combo, I have not felt the need to upgrade anymore. You should be fine for a long while.


----------



## Drumonron

I'll let you all know when I get the amp...I kind of thought maybe it's a lateral jump
 but you know how this hobby is....I gotta try Solid state on my Stax and I really do 
 think the 007 mk2 will benefit from the Solid state.  The 009 IMHO is simply perfect 
 with no harshness to my ears and at my levels....nothing in my inventory is ever gonna
 touch them but you know I'll have some fun trying the 727 II.  I can only dream of the 
 bhse but forever is too long....some day...it will be mine.  Until then...I'm very content and
 have been.
  
 PS.  while the 006t II is good, It needs at least 5-10 minutes to achieve maximum potential for
 every listening session...there are times I just don't want to wait so hopefully SS will cure
 my impatience.  Time - it's so precious, right.
  
 The chain for me stax:
  
 Lossless Flac or DSD from Mediacenter (Macbook pro) -> DAC2 HGC -> Stax SRM-006T II -> SR-009 / SR-007MK2
  
 Note to RUSH: 2 more studio albums please - Limited touring please
  
 Thanks Geddy, Alex and Neil


----------



## gefski

drumonron said:


> Just ordered a black STAX SRM-727II from headamp.com and Justin will be modifying it for me.
> Will be using this for my SR-007 and SR-009.  Thoughts?




Just bought a 727A from Spritzer (w/feedback mod). Same transparency & detail in space that I'm used to, but a wonderful sweetness is the immediate improvement. I just have 404LE and 407 at this point. Smiling.

IMO, YMWV


----------



## VandyMan

drumonron said:


> Just ordered a black STAX SRM-727II from headamp.com and Justin will be modifying it for me.
> Will be using this for my SR-007 and SR-009.  Thoughts?


 
  
 Yes, you should have bought mine and saved $$$.


----------



## VandyMan

Are the 009 earpads difficult to replace? Do you have to disassemble anything to do it?


----------



## purk

BTW, you guys can buy the 007II from Justin and get him to mod them into KGST as well.  He told me it is a better choice.


----------



## zolkis

vandyman said:


> Are the 009 earpads difficult to replace? Do you have to disassemble anything to do it?


 
  
 The 009 pads when installed are between 2 metallic disks that are held together by 6 screws that press the pad's leather flap between them.
  
 1. First you need to get the dust screen out. It has a plastic reinforcement ring for the outer perimeter, and the cloth is tensioned on that. Just put your finger under the pad until you feel the edge of the dust screen, then bend you finger to bend the screen, until it comes out. It will bend in about 90 degrees but it's quite flexible and you can restore it.
  
 2. When the dust screen is out, you see the metallic grill that protects the drivers. You can try the headphones without the cloth grill. It will sound more open and more clear in the treble, but quantity will be too much. [If you are after modifying the treble characteristics, at this point you can experiment with different kinds of cloth for the grill.]
  
 3. Slightly lift and pull away the pads with a finger. That will reveal the screws that hold the metallic disks together. Loosen the 6 screws so that the  disks come 2-4 mm apart. Start with one, then move to the opposite one etc, i.e. go around the perimeter several times and do one rotation on the screws the first time.
 Once the screws are loose, put your finger under the pads, and pull it out until the circular flap comes out from between the two disks. Do that on the circumference and the pad is off.
  
 [ Mods time. After the pad is off, secure the screws again temporarily so that the 2 disks are not loose any more. For testing, it is enough to change the pads and then just press them against the driver and carefully put it on your head. It does sound slightly different when the pad is fully assembled, but it's really close and much better for testing than to assemble/disassemble the pads so many times.] 
  
 To assemble, do the reverse steps:
 1. loosen the screws again so that the disks are 3-4 mm apart, then
  
 2. insert the pads's flap into the gap, going through the circumference. After it's on, pay attention to the orientation of the pads, and the position of the masking plastic strips in the bottom of the drivers where the opening for the cable is (you will see on the spot what I am talking about).
  
 3. After everything is in position, secure the screws, starting with one but don't tighten it yet, then secure the opposite side, and so on, jump always to the other side, just like when you are assembling a car wheel. This is to get the pressure even.
  
 4. After the pad is on, reinsert the dust screen. This is the most tricky part . I usually lift the pads with one hand, and push one edge of the dust grill in place. Then I bend the grill and push the edge which is about 90-120 degrees from the previous spot. The remaining edge is quite much bent by this time, but don't be afraid of just pushing it into place. It slides on the metallic grill to go under the pads. After it's pushed in, go around the circumference of the grill and even out the plastic reinforcement.


----------



## VandyMan

Thank you! Very very helpful. Will print and save.


----------



## MacedonianHero

drumonron said:


> Just ordered a black STAX SRM-727II from headamp.com and Justin will be modifying it for me.
> Will be using this for my SR-007 and SR-009.  Thoughts?


 
 Really good actually! I really liked the spritzer modded 727II!


----------



## rgs9200m

A used KGSShv of some type can usually be had for about $2200 to $2600 if you keep your eyes open, vs. $1590 it looks like for the Stax. Just my 2 cents for how to get a virtually end-game amp on the cheap...
 You can see the offerings (4 of them) here (usually referencing headfi ads now expired) here asking $2350 to $2700:
 http://www.hifishark.com/search?q=mjolnir
  
 Here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/754815/full-size-500v-kgsshv-built-by-spritzer-mjolnir-audio


----------



## MacedonianHero

rgs9200m said:


> A used KGSShv of some type can usually be had for about $2000 to $2400 if you keep your eyes open, vs. $1590 it looks for the Stax. Just my 2 cents for how to get a virtually end-game amp on the cheap...


 
 Good point. The KGGSHV is better...but if you can snag a used 727II and perform the mod, you can bet all set for a bit less.


----------



## 3X0

I don't think the HV is really endgame but YMMV.

I wouldn't bother with anything between the 323S and the BHSE or Carbon.


----------



## MacedonianHero

3x0 said:


> I don't think the HV is really endgame but YMMV.
> 
> I wouldn't bother with anything between the 323S and the BHSE or Carbon.


 
 Neither are the BHSE or Carbon...there's always the T-2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Hard to improve on that.


----------



## purk

macedonianhero said:


> Neither are the BHSE or Carbon...there's always the T-2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 But he has the T2....just saying and a darn Stax SRM-Omega.


----------



## MacedonianHero

purk said:


> But he has the T2....just saying and a darn Stax SRM-Omega.


 
 And that's endgame! Well...unless we consider the new Sennheiser stat?


----------



## zolkis

I had my second time with an SZ3-2xxx Mk2.5, compared to my 007 Mk1 with black EP007 pads and original springs and dust screen.
 I want to make some justice to the Mk2.5. It has a wonderful sound stage, I'd say better than Mk1 and 009. It has more midbass impact than the Mk1, but less deep bass impact (sub-30 Hz). It had somewhat less treble than my Mk1, and more recessed mids, but I liked it more with jazz than the Mk1... Very compelling presentation, and sometimes small issues. They are quite different, but I would say it's similar class. The Mk1 is perhaps a tiny bit smoother and less colored (though still sepia-toned).
  
 I think most differences in bass and treble may come from pads and dust screen variance, but there is a genuine difference in the midrange that seems to be characteristic to the drivers. The Mk1 seems to be more full/forward in the mids, and has less colorations. The Mk2.5 can sound a bit cavity-honky-ghosty in some cases. IMHO both of the 007's are bettered by the 009 in the midrange, openness and naturalness of timbre (ok, the 009 has a 4K peak instead of a dip), but  both 007's have more bass than the 009, and the Mk1 beats it in the treble dynamics, too, at least for me. Sound stage wise, the Mk2.5 is largest, the Mk1 is smallest, the 009 is almost perfect (though it could be larger a bit in all dimensions).
  
 I want and demand a 009 with thicker (from 1 μm up to 2.4 μm) diaphragm, or copper-only cables (no silver coating), a bit less aluminium in the enclosure, slightly more angled and stiffer pads, and a bit cheaper... please. I will call it the Omega reborn .
  
 That being said, Mk2.5 owners can stay relaxed, their phones are not worse than the Mk1, just a bit different. For different musical genres I can imagine picking either of them for different reasons. Just enjoy the music and disregard hypes.


----------



## joseph69

zolkis said:


> I had my second time with an SZ3-2xxx Mk2.5


 
 Are the SZ3/Mk2.5 serial #'s the most current SR-007 Mk2?
 I'm asking because I just purchased the (black) SR-007 Mk2 from Justin.
 Thanks.


----------



## zolkis

joseph69 said:


> Are the SZ3/Mk2.5 serial #'s the most current SR-007 Mk2?


 
  
 This one is less than a year old, so I guess yes.


----------



## joseph69

zolkis said:


> This one is less than a year old, so I guess yes.


 
 Thank you.


----------



## rgs9200m

SZ3-195x 007 here (no mods). One darn brilliant headphone.
 (Like all Staxes I have known though for almost 20 years now, it works better with a warmish digital front end since they can be revealing of glare. I even found this with the 007 mk1 I had for 8 years.)
  
  This not a criticism of the 007; *every* high end headphone needs a complementary front end to get the best out of it. And when you do, boy does the 007 deliver.
 The SR007 really scales with the quality of the digital source you feed it. It's really amazing with SACD ime.


----------



## joseph69

rgs9200m said:


> SZ3-195x 007 here (no mods). One darn brilliant headphone.
> (Like all Staxes I have known though for almost 20 years now, it works better with a warmish digital front end since they can be revealing of glare. I even found this with the 007 mk1 I had for 8 years.)
> 
> This not a criticism of the 007; *every* high end headphone needs a complementary front end to get the best out of it. And when you do, boy does the 007 deliver.
> The SR007 really scales with the quality of the digital source you feed it. It's really amazing with SACD ime.


 
 Great to hear!
 My BHSE is shipping in a few days, can't wait to hear both the 007/009!


----------



## Drumonron

congrats on the BHSE and looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## joseph69

drumonron said:


> congrats on the BHSE and looking forward to your impressions.


 
 Thank you very much.


----------



## Drumonron

You know, I was debating on whether to invest in one of the FOTM headphones:
 New Sony MDR-Z1R or Focal's offerings but decided that I doubt they can touch
 what I have so I'm Stax for life with an HD800 and some Grado for dynamic fun.


----------



## zolkis

drumonron said:


> You know, I was debating on whether to invest in one of the FOTM headphones:
> New Sony MDR-Z1R or Focal's offerings but decided that I doubt they can touch
> what I have so I'm Stax for life with an HD800 and some Grado for dynamic fun.


 
  
 Same here, stuck with Stax, especially 007 with 2 pads of choice, perhaps 009, and wishfully an SR-Ω or worthy successor in the future, to replace all.
 I also bear with a heavily modded TH900 for office (must be closed back) most of the time.
 Unfortunately IEMs are incompatible with my ear canal.
 The modded HD800 would be quite nice for classical music (and a bargain by today's standards, who'd believe that 10 years ago...). The Focal Elear and K812 also sounded quite OK for the price, but no reasons over my modded TH900 or the HD800. Audeze, MDR-Z1R no thanks. Never heard Ether. For a non-Stax open-back solution (totally hypothetical), I'd perhaps choose the HE-1000 (modded V1 or V2) despite the flaws or the modded HD800 with occasional EQ or a Smyth Realiser. But thankfully I can have Stax, so I have Stax .


----------



## Drumonron

Joseph69, If you, or anyone else, ever gets tired of the BHSE, don't hesitate to PM me. 
 It'll take a bit of saving but I'd like to buy one someday.  I really do think Stax is the purest
 sound for me.  I'd probably save tons of money by just upgrading my amps now.  Would love a
 GS-X for my dynamics and the BHSE for my Stax.


----------



## joseph69

drumonron said:


> Joseph69, If you, or anyone else, ever gets tired of the BHSE, don't hesitate to PM me.
> It'll take a bit of saving but I'd like to buy one someday.  I really do think Stax is the purest
> sound for me.  I'd probably save tons of money by just upgrading my amps now.  Would love a
> GS-X for my dynamics and the BHSE for my Stax.


 
 I haven't received my BHSE…but I do have the GS-XMk2 and for sure thats never going anywhere.


----------



## Bloos

Being new to electrostatic headphones, having acquired a pair of Lambdas, there's a particular thing I have a question about:
 When I turn on my electrostatic amp and listen right away to the headphones, I hear distortion at certain points in songs. However, after a while when I listen to the same parts of the songs, the distortion is gone!
 Does anyone else experience this? and why might this be?
 (Is it because the film acts like a capacitor with a large time constant, and takes a while to charge up? If so, how long should I wait?)


----------



## chinsettawong

If your headphones are old, it might take a little time to charge up.  Normally, it should take only a few minutes.  But if you have brand new ones, the charge up time is almost instantaneous.


----------



## Bloos

The ones I have are the L300s, and used them for a bit over a month, and I feel like the distortion goes away in about a minute or two.
 Hoping that's normal. I guess this also depends on the time since they were last used? (~a week for me)


----------



## chinsettawong

L300 is so new. It shouldn't have this problem. Could it be your amp? What amp do you use with the headphones?


----------



## Bloos

chinsettawong said:


> L300 is so new. It shouldn't have this problem. Could it be your amp? What amp do you use with the headphones?



The SRM 252S


----------



## Bloos

Huh, Wierd thing... After testing today. I realized that the distortion doesn't go away after a while, but instead actually goes away when I turn on my amp (O2 amp) connected to the parallel outs of the 252S. (also goes away when disconnecting the O2 amp)
  
 Wieeerd? anyone know why this might be?
 (Whoa, connecting a different amp to the parallel outs, Fiio E10, makes the distortion much worse)


----------



## gefski

bloos said:


> Huh, Wierd thing... After testing today. I realized that the distortion doesn't go away after a while, but instead actually goes away when I turn on my amp (O2 amp) connected to the parallel outs of the 252S. (also goes away when disconnecting the O2 amp)
> 
> Wieeerd? anyone know why this might be?
> (Whoa, connecting a different amp to the parallel outs, Fiio E10, makes the distortion much worse)




What is the nature of the "distortion", what does it sound like? Connecting different amps to parallel outputs would suggest a ground loop, but that would be a hum, not distortion.


----------



## Bloos

gefski said:


> What is the nature of the "distortion", what does it sound like? Connecting different amps to parallel outputs would suggest a ground loop, but that would be a hum, not distortion.


 
 it's like a buzzing static that consistently happens in certain parts of a song.
 But the sound definitely goes away after disconnecting the amp, so its not from the audio file.
 Also if at a part where I hear it only in one ear, after switching the L and R connections, the buzz switches to the other ear.


----------



## joseph69

bloos said:


> it's like a buzzing static that consistently happens in certain parts of a song.
> But the sound definitely goes away after disconnecting the amp, so its not from the audio file.
> Also if at a part where I hear it only in one ear, after switching the L and R connections, the buzz switches to the other ear.


 
   Bad interconnect?


----------



## zolkis

It may be the amp's (or power supply) issue. The 252S deserves a better PSU for sure. Go to your Stax dealer and listen your headphones with other amps. Then you will know.


----------



## astrostar59

Sounds like a cap is going letting DC through. Can you get hold of a meter and measure the outputs for DC?


----------



## Bloos

astrostar59 said:


> Sounds like a cap is going letting DC through. Can you get hold of a meter and measure the outputs for DC?


 
 Which outputs are you referring to?


----------



## astrostar59

bloos said:


> Which outputs are you referring to?


 
 The RCA or XLRs out. I had a pre-amp that did the same thing, caps were going and it gave out a wandering and inconsistent static noise which turned out to be DC. One of your pre-amps may have better input shielding that repels the DC, the others not, hens the change there.
  
 It is an idea that can be easily checked. Other ideas may be more costly and need a tech.


----------



## miko64

@Zolkis: I use sr007/2 and sr252 with a 12V 10ah battery together with Chord Hugo which results in a very nice combo. The power supply is as a consequence extremely stable


----------



## Bloos

I don't have a working meter at the moment, but do you mean the ouputs of the 252S or my other Amp?
  
 I also tested: 
 1. Using different cables (at every connection)
 2. Splitting the audio signal from the DAC into two, one to the 252S and one to the other amp, instead of using the parallel outs of the 252S.
  
 And in both these cases it seems as long as another Amp (while it is off) is attached, there is this "distortion".


----------



## kevin gilmore

opamp input based amps (like o2) are going to clamp the audio signal when turned off to protect the chip.
 the solution seems obvious.


----------



## Bloos

kevin gilmore said:


> opamp input based amps (like o2) are going to clamp the audio signal when turned off to protect the chip.
> the solution seems obvious.


 
 Oh ok, thanks!! I didn't know that.
 So I'll have to unplug everytime I use STAX without the O2 then? bummer


----------



## JimL11

Sounds like the O2 is showing a non-linear load to your source when it is off that is causing it to distort, since it goes away when you disconnect it.  So, just disconnect it if you're not using it.


----------



## Bloos

Thanks guys/gals for the help!


----------



## Mach3

bloos said:


> it's like a buzzing static that consistently happens in certain parts of a song.
> But the sound definitely goes away after disconnecting the amp, so its not from the audio file.
> Also if at a part where I hear it only in one ear, after switching the L and R connections, the buzz switches to the other ear.




Ive got the same setup. The problem is the O2 + ODAC is not grounded properly. I dont have the same problem when i connect it to my decked out E1 MUSES MKII


----------



## rockyraccon

Probably a dumb question that's been asked a bunch, but I've had a hard time finding any info. What is the difference between the KGSSHV 500V and the KGSSHV Carbon, and which one would be better with my O2s?


----------



## JimL11

So, the KGSSHV and Carbon share the same input and mid stages but they have different output stages.  The Carbon is the later design using new SiC devices in a grounded gate configuration which should be more linear than the design in the KGSSHV, which basically dates back to the 1990s, although the devices themselves are relatively new.  The consensus seems to be that the Carbon sounds better than the KGSSHV.  Both are mostly DIY although there are a few builders that will sell versions of either, e.g. Birgir, aka spritzer (do a Google search for Mjolnir Audio electrostatic) .  His builds are relatively expensive due to the costs of importing parts into Iceland, the Carbon moreso than the KGSSHV.  The KGSSHV has a higher voltage PS than the Carbon, but both have enough power to blow up your phones if you crank them up all the way.  The reason for the high voltage PS in the KGSSHV is not so much to give more power but to keep the amp away from the voltage limits where things become more non-linear.
  
 The Carbon is said to sound more tube-like but not so much as a KGST or BHSE, both of which actually use tubes in the output stage (6S4A and  EL34 respectively).
  
 HTH


----------



## rockyraccon

Thanks for the info, so which one would you recommend for the O2. I'm using the 323s right now and it's alright, but leaving to much head room.


----------



## JimL11

Well I haven't heard any of them, so I have no opinion on that.  Search the thread, I think mulveling did a report on his listening experience on a number of amps in Jan, but he used an SR009, so you'll have to keep that in mind.  The SR009 (which I also have not heard) is supposed to sound brighter and thinner than the SR007.  I'm happy with my spritzer port modded SR007 Mk II and my DIY SRX Plus, which I compared with a friend's KGST with KGSSHV PS and sounds very comparable, IMO.  You should really listen for yourself if possible - you may be able to find one or another at a meet, although listening under meet conditions can be problematic.  But recommending equipment for someone else is generally biased by the recommender's priorities, which may not be yours.  Kind of like asking who you should marry, on a much less significant scale.


----------



## mulveling

I do have a 007 Mk I (O2), though I listen to my 009 far more. However I've tried the 007 on my amps, and based on sound quality I think you'd be happiest with a Carbon or BHSE. To my ears, they're  both a clear cut above any KGSShv (I've owned or hear about 5 variants) and the KGST. The Carbon is absolutely a superb match with the 007. Between the BHSE and Carbon on 007, I'm not even sure which I'd prefer -- I'd have to do more 007 listening to resolve that. But both amps are great (with 009, I definitely prefer the BHSE over Carbon).


----------



## rockyraccon

Thanks for all the advice. now I just have to decide. I can get a good deal on a KGSSHV, but am still deciding if I should wait and get a carbon. I'm thinking it might just be better to wait.


----------



## astrostar59

rockyraccon said:


> Thanks for all the advice. now I just have to decide. I can get a good deal on a KGSSHV, but am still deciding if I should wait and get a carbon. I'm thinking it might just be better to wait.


 

 I had the KGSShv Sanyo version 450V off-board. It was a great amplifier. I now have the Carbon which is better, but comes with it's own price tag i.e. it needs a great source. I have tried the Carbon with some modern DACs and the 009s and it was a bit bright and cold in the treble. So unless you have a very smooth DAC (tubed DAC, or R-2R NOS, or an Ayre QB9 for example) a warm sounding DAC, the Carbon may not work at it's best. 
  
 With the BHSE you can use NOS warmer sounding tubes to tame the 009s treble energy. IMO the KGSShv Sanyo I had was super forgiving, quite warm in the treble and midrange and had full bass. It is a great match to more DACs IMO. I was very happy with that combo.
  
 Yes, the Carbon is better, but it needs *the correct system* to work it's magic. With the Carbon and 007s, no problems however as they are a lot darker and warmer.
  
 Get the KGSShv, and enjoy it. If you come to move up later, you could sell it for almost no loss.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## purk

rockyraccon said:


> Probably a dumb question that's been asked a bunch, but I've had a hard time finding any info. What is the difference between the KGSSHV 500V and the KGSSHV Carbon, and which one would be better with my O2s?


 
 I recommend to get the Carbon.  However, I would go with the KGSSHV 500V instead of the 450V given a more neutral tonal balanced on the 500V amp.  The 450V is lush and warm as well as bassy.  This combination can be a tad much with the SR007 IMO.


----------



## 3X0

I think the "almost no loss" resale days of the KGSSHV are long over (judging by the number of >$2000 listings rotting in the Classifieds).
  
 Maybe people are coming to terms with the fact that it's priced way too high for what it offers.


----------



## HemiSam

Supply and demand.  Appreciate you've got a point of view, but the parts lists on some of the units are impressive to say the least.  Gloating is unbecoming, Rambo...
  
  




  
 HS


----------



## mulveling

The KGSShv's value has definitely been reduced due to the accumulating number of builds over the years, the increased presence of the superior BHSE (more batches released), and the introduction of the superior Carbon KGSShv. Even somewhat due to the KGST, as yet another alternative (but not quite as good as the KGSShv in my opinion, and I still own one of these too). Hell I'm still holding two nice KGSShv units because I'm been too lazy to sell them; they've definitely dropped in value over this time period. Still very nice amps, but -- I remember the days when I thought that was all I needed to be satisfied for the long run. Not so, in my case, as it turns out.


----------



## Tinkerer

I have some extra circlotron driver boards that I thought would be fun to convert to carbon ones and swap out the ones in my KGSSHV. But I don't think the sand is rated high enough for a 500V PSU.


----------



## HemiSam

The BHSE is a beautiful design, but not for everyone.  I've never felt a burning desire to purchase one given the sound signature.
  
 I own a KGSSHV Carbon and a KGST, both of which I'll likely keep both for a good while.  I like the Carbon with the 007 Mk2's and the KGST with the 003 Mk2's (took them for a spin this evening).  Good stuff.
  
 HS


----------



## astrostar59

3x0 said:


> I think the "almost no loss" resale days of the KGSSHV are long over (judging by the number of >$2000 listings rotting in the Classifieds).
> 
> Maybe people are coming to terms with the fact that it's priced way too high for what it offers.


 

 What ads, where? I sold my 2 KGSShv amps 3 months back in 2 weeks of advertising.
  
 TBH after having the Carbon for 3 months, I still say the KGSShv (nice built version like the ones I had) is a superb amp. Nothing has changed in my view.
  
 Alternatives are what at 2K?


----------



## Rossliew

Anyone wanna sell their spare kgsshv/carbon/BHSE?


----------



## TheAttorney

Ask again in a month's time )
  
 I'm thinking of downsizing to a smaller transportable system.
  
 Step 1: Find a very compact DAC with a great integrated headphone amp. Achieved with DAVE.
  
 Step 2: Find a dynamics headphone that sounds anywhere near as good as my BHSE/009. So far failed miserably, but I'll be auditioning the latest crop of TOTL models, including Utopia. as soon as they're all in at the same time, same place, which the dealer reckoned would be in first half of October.
  
 I wouldn't hold your breath on this one. In the unlikely event I do get swayed by the Utopia or whatever, I may still keep the BHSE just so that I can look at it as a work of art )


----------



## Rossliew

theattorney said:


> Ask again in a month's time )
> 
> I'm thinking of downsizing to a smaller transportable system.
> 
> ...




Lol! Well I'll only hold my breath if your BHSE is 230V or else it's a no go..don't want the hassle of getting the voltage converted (sorry just saw that you're based in the UK so your BHSE should be of the right voltage for me)..that said, indeed it is a work of art but such a waste just sitting there getting stares..


----------



## comzee

3x0 said:


> Maybe people are coming to terms with the fact that it's priced way too high for what it offers.


 
 This is why I sold my kit (to you coincidentally).
  
 When I was getting better micro details from my Taurus Mkii ($1300) + hd800 ($1000) combo, I know something was goofy.
 It all made sense with the reply you gave me, describing how you thought the DIY-T2 was a couple leagues ahead of the Carbon.
  
 Let me think off the top of my head what's out there for Stax amps:
 Stax stock amps
 Kevin Gilmore amps
 BHSE
 DIY-t2 (not readily available to the public) 
  
 What's out there for regular HP amps:
 As we all know, too many to list, and at every price range.
  
*More competition means better performance at lower prices.*
 When every forum online is sh!tting on Stax amps, the BHSE is months wait time for a high price, DIY-T2 is basically unobtanium, you're left with one option, Kevin Gilmore designs.
  
 I don't care if parts to Iceland are more expensive, or what labor costs are, in my opinion KG amps are overpriced for the performance they deliver to comparative dynamic offerings. 
 Burn me at the stake, w/e. Also, anybody can cherry pick numbers out their butt for price v.s. performance. The simple fact is that there are 100's of more competitive offerings in the dynamic driver space in regards to amps.
  
 I think a DIY-T2 + 007/009/Omega has the potential to best any dynamic headphone system in the world.
 This means when talking $$ out of the equation, I still love Stax, I love their SQ, their specific signature. Since I'm not in the 1%, I can't personally justify. 
  
 This is why I'll stick with my srs-002 kit (which I love).


----------



## mulveling

I generally disagree with that assessment, though I agree the Icelandic builds are expensive. There's lots of other quality builds that come available for lower prices. I actually find dynamic amps to be more disappointing -- and they're relatively less important components in the audio chain than with electrostatics -- especially for those who enjoy electrostats at higher volumes. I would never, EVER choose a HD800 w/ GS-X Mk 2 over a 009 with KGSShv (which can be had for less than a GS-X 2).
  
 The KGSShv is still a good amp, and I loved mine for a couple of years, it's just that 009 and 007 scale to ridiculous levels (like the HD600/650, except at a much higher level), and the BHSE/Carbon and then DIY T2 take it to the next 2 levels. The BHSE is also rooted in KG's Blue Hawaii design btw, and the DIY T2 features improvements made by KG.
  
 KG is among the best (if not THE best) headphone amp designer in *both* the dynamic and electrostat worlds, so the fact that he's the main option in the eletctrostat world is actually nice -- most (though not all) of the crap is already filtered out for you, with Stax amps filling the entry level. He doesn't make profit from these amps, so it's not like he's exerting a monopolistic hold over the market either.


----------



## comzee

mulveling said:


> I would never, EVER choose a HD800 w/ GS-X Mk 2 over a 009 with KGSShv (which can be had for less than a GS-X 2).


 
  That is partly my point, is it not? You are using the example of GS-X Mk2, which I know many people hate with the hd800, too rough, too bright. (Apart from the imo that SS amps suck on HD800)
  
 There are 100s of other alternatives, in both tube and SS, to use with HD800, correct? ...  Basing that judgement on one amp pairing, with who knows what dac... hmmm...
 I've listened to 10+ really good amps with hd800, only two have beat the 009/Carbon setup for me. In that same vain, again, many choices I have not tried, that could or could not be good. *I have choices though!*
  
 Quote:


mulveling said:


> KG is among the best (if not THE best) headphone amp designer in *both* the dynamic and electrostat worlds


 
 That is not only highly subjective, how in the world are you to compare an electrostatic amp to a dynamic amp... ?
 For example, I can connect my "Fire-Bottle" and Taurus MkII amps to the same dAC (Yggdrasil). I can use the same headphones, HD800, to directly compare each amp, using the same HP/DAC.
 You change one component in the chain (DAC or HP) and there is no objective way to compare, unless I'm missing something?
  
 If you're talking purely on a technical design standpoint, sure, I don't know crap about electronics in that realm. KG maybe could be the best designed amp in the world, but if it's not coming to best SQ in the world, I can throw the technical design out the window, who cares. 
  
 And I know I'll never get the group think thumbs up, just posting this for others, not the regulars here.
 I want to be a "devil's advocate" and get some counter points in this thread, no worries.
 (Or maybe people want to endlessly talk about 007 revisions and rehash talking points 100s of pages in row )


----------



## purk

comzee said:


> That is not only highly subjective, how in the world are you to compare an electrostatic amp to a dynamic amp... ?
> For example, I can connect my "Fire-Bottle" and Taurus MkII amps to the same dAC (Yggdrasil). I can use the same headphones, HD800, to directly compare each amp, using the same HP/DAC.
> You change one component in the chain (DAC or HP) and there is no objective way to compare, unless I'm missing something?
> 
> If you're talking purely on a technical design standpoint, sure, *I don't know crap about electronics in that realm. KG maybe could be the best designed amp in the world, but if it's not coming to best SQ in the world, I can throw the technical design out the window, who cares. *


 
 Could it be that you are simply a fan of the HD800 voicing more than that of Stax?  I personally preferred the Stax SR009/SR007 over the HD800 rig that I have.  Like you, I have tried several amplifiers with the HD800, including the GS-X MKII, SuSy Dynahi, ECP DSHA-2 & L2, Apex Peak & Vocano, Questyle Monoblock, and HR Balanced Home w/ a Max module and at the end of day I always prefer my KGSSHV 500v/450v over the HD800 system.  A recently minimeet confirmed that my Stax system is vastly superior to the Ether Flow system.
  
 I don't think KG amps are overpriced.  In fact, it down right a steal compared to what Stax offers.  A good electrostatic amplifiers simply cost more compared to dynamics.  And, not everyone is qualified to build a high voltage amplifier that can easily kill you.  I also believe that KG is one of the best if not the top headamp designer out there.


----------



## VandyMan

comzee said:


> I've listened to 10+ really good amps with hd800, only two have beat the 009/Carbon setup for me. In that same vain, again, many choices I have not tried, that could or could not be good. *I have choices though!*


 
  
 There are literally thousands of models of dynamic headphones vs around a dozen electrostatic models in current production.  Once there are more companies making electrostatic headphones, we will likely see many more electrostatic amps. The list of amps posted above was actually incomplete. I can think of several off the top of my head that were no included such as Woo and King Sound. There are others. Also, in my limited experience, STAX amps are better than they are given credit for. There are certain vikings who feel that anything they did not build themselves is complete crap and are very vocal about that. Maybe they are right, but I doubt it.

 Once I got a 009 and BHSE, choice became irrelevant for me.  Seriously though, more choice would probably give the electrostatic market a boost, but it is choice in headphones holding it back, IMO.


----------



## astrostar59

purk said:


> I don't think KG amps are overpriced.  In fact, it down right a steal compared to what Stax offers.  A good electrostatic amplifiers simply cost more compared to dynamics.  And, not everyone is qualified to build a high voltage amplifier that can easily kill you.  I also believe that KG is one of the best if not the top headamp designer out there.


 
 Plus from me as well. Why 


comzee said:


> That is not only highly subjective, how in the world are you to compare an electrostatic amp to a dynamic amp... ?
> For example, I can connect my "Fire-Bottle" and Taurus MkII amps to the same dAC (Yggdrasil). I can use the same headphones, HD800, to directly compare each amp, using the same HP/DAC.
> You change one component in the chain (DAC or HP) and there is no objective way to compare, unless I'm missing something?
> 
> ...


 
 Hang on, lets slow down a bit here. KG amps are way overpriced? Kevin doesn't build any amps or sell them so how can that be???
  
 He is a top top guy IMO that knows his stuff and designs THE BEST electrostatic amps available. The T2 DIY you have has been tweaked and extracted from the Stax T2 which was originally flawed (in built self destruction) but sounded brilliant. Without KG you wouldn't have a T2 at all.
  
 There are circuit boards out there for free, you ask Kevin and go buy the parts, then you put them together, so you err, pay very little if you put the effort in.
  
 A price of any DIY amp is subjective to that builder, some charge low prices and others more. It is NOT all KG amps are way overpriced, that is simply rubbish and misleading.
  
 I have had 2 x KGSShv amplifiers which I used with the 007As and 009s and they sounded better IMO to the Abbys, HD800 and HE-6. 
  
 I have the money and would buy any amp or headphone if it sounded better (up to 10K system) and am staying with KG amps sorry.
  
 I am going too lay down now as have got all hot and bothered all of a sudden. I have a passion for this hobby, but not disinformation.


----------



## purk

Many of us have tried Stax amps and they are a disappointment compared to DIY KG amps.  Plus KG just open source all of his designs so it is really depending on how much the builder will charge you.  Some charge more than others but most DIY amps utilize better parts & PCB boards compared to commercialize builders.  Also, KG designed number of dynamic amps including Susy Dynahi, and Susy Dynalo just to name a few.  If you can build these two amps yourself...they can easily compete and surpass the Questyle Monoblock system for a third of a price.


----------



## 3X0

I'd rather spend $400-600 on a 323S and save up towards a Carbon/BHSE or greater than bother with the HV. One of the benefits of all the poop talk about Stax offerings is that they are available second-hand for very fair prices.

Re: meet impressions, I suspect many are not used to the differences in transient response that Stax bring over dynamics. They mistakenly attribute this difference as superiority by way of the "wow factor". The ethereal quality of electrostatics does nothing for me now so I would certainly choose a number of dynamic headphone setups (none involving Questyle, no offense) over popular electrostatic pairings e.g. KGSSHV + 009. When pricing is taken into consideration it's really no contest.

I prefer my current setup over every headphone system I've heard, but I'd sooner take a few dynamic chains over many electrostatic chains.


----------



## purk

3x0 said:


> I'd rather spend $400-600 on a 323S and save up towards a Carbon/BHSE or greater than bother with the HV. One of the benefits of all the poop talk about Stax offerings is that they are available second-hand for very fair prices.
> 
> Re: meet impressions, I suspect many are not used to the differences in transient response that Stax bring over dynamics. They mistakenly attribute this difference as superiority by way of the "wow factor". The ethereal quality of electrostatics does nothing for me now so I would certainly choose a number of dynamic headphone setups (none involving Questyle, no offense) over popular electrostatic pairings e.g. KGSSHV + 009. When pricing is taken into consideration it's really no contest.
> 
> *I prefer my current setup over every headphone system I've heard,* but I'd sooner take a few dynamic chains over many electrostatic chains.


 
 What's your current setup?
  
 Well we have similar rig and in a way enjoy similar audio things.  However, I still think that the KGSSHV is still quite a good deal assuming that you can get one less than $2400 in a  used market. They still represent a better bang for your bucks compared to all commercially available electrostatic amplifiers out there.


----------



## bmichels

theattorney said:


> Ask again in a month's time )
> 
> I'm thinking of downsizing to a smaller transportable system.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Try WOO Audio WA8 + Focal Utopia.   A very nice transportable set-up
  
 At home I have BHSE + SR009 (my "home end-game") and, like TheAttorney, I am looking now for my ultimate transportable set-up.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

theattorney said:


> Ask again in a month's time )
> 
> I'm thinking of downsizing to a smaller transportable system.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I feel like you and I are on the same road, just going in different directions.  I've been seriously contemplating getting INTO Stax and here you are trying to leave.  I am very curious to see where you land.


----------



## rgs9200m

My KGSShv mini I bought from someone here in the low $2K area sounds so good it's the best bargain I ever got in audio. I'd feel it would still be a bargain at twice that. (I use an SR007 mk2 mostly, sometimes an 009).
 It really gets to the root of the music; all truth and beauty. And when you consider there is no tube expense, it's even more of a value.
  
 I actually find you need to spend more to get a dynamic system that sounds really good, usually with tube rolling expense.
 Deciding which is better overall is almost a meaningless argument, since the Stax setup sounds very different from non-Stax, very unique. Never the twain shall meet you know...
  
 Personally, I like to devote more resources to a DAC rather than trying to go beyond the KGSShv, since this amp already sounds so fine to me.
 The Stax setup lets me know every fine point of what the DAC/cables/recordings involved are, and it benefits mightily from this upstream input.
 So in that sense, the Stax+KGSShv combo is, essentially endgame to my ears and budget.
  
 [edit: Oddly, I feel that a really good tube amp with top-notch DAC (and cables) with a Senn HD650 or 600 may be state of the art for dynamics (or any not Stax phone).
 I know this is controversial, but that's what my ears tell me.]


----------



## paradoxper

The "problem" is Birgir. He is the most prevalent builder with the most accessible choices. However, he is not the only builder out there. The focus has always been on, say, Stax 007tII or 727 and their entry pricing comparative to what a KGSSHV can be had for, which is the $2k-ish range. At that, you're asking a few hundred here or there for a HV build over a new or even secondhand Stax amplifier.


----------



## mulveling

comzee said:


> That is partly my point, is it not? You are using the example of GS-X Mk2, which I know many people hate with the hd800, too rough, too bright. (Apart from the imo that SS amps suck on HD800)
> 
> There are 100s of other alternatives, in both tube and SS, to use with HD800, correct? ...  Basing that judgement on one amp pairing, with who knows what dac... hmmm...
> I've listened to 10+ really good amps with hd800, only two have beat the 009/Carbon setup for me. In that same vain, again, many choices I have not tried, that could or could not be good. *I have choices though!*


 
 Well, to be fair I could also say that I'd pick a 009/KGSShv over _almost_ any dynamic setup I've heard, and I've heard a lot over the years, through my collection and Purk's. And I'll easily pick 009/BHSE over _any_ dynamic setup I've ever heard. Yes, I like the HD800 better on warmer amps than the GS-X Mk2, but under no circumstances/systems do I fall in love with that headphone (Sennheiser: it's time for you to do better). 
  
 Perhaps the new Utopia is good enough that I'll have to stop being so dismissive of the dynamic world again -- I'd love to hear one, and I still own a couple of pretty good dynamic amps (tube and SS), presently collecting dust. What I'd _like_ for the Utopia to be is a Qualia 010 on top & bottom, and something like an R10, 009, or he90 in the midrange (soundstage can be either huge like Qualia/R10/HD800 or moderate like 009; I don't care too much there) -- but that's asking an awful lot from one dynamic.


----------



## purk

mulveling said:


> Well, to be fair I could also say that I'd pick a 009/KGSShv over _almost_ any dynamic setup I've heard, and I've heard a lot over the years, through my collection and Purk's. And I'll easily pick 009/BHSE over _any_ dynamic setup I've ever heard. Yes, I like the HD800 better on warmer amps than the GS-X Mk2, but under no circumstances/systems do I fall in love with that headphone (Sennheiser: it's time for you to do better).
> 
> *Perhaps the new Utopia is good enough that I'll have to stop being so dismissive of the dynamic world again -- *I'd love to hear one, and I still own a couple of pretty good dynamic amps (tube and SS), presently collecting dust. What I'd _like_ for the Utopia to be is a Qualia 010 on top & bottom, and something like an R10, 009, or he90 in the midrange (soundstage can be either huge like Qualia/R10/HD800 or moderate like 009; I don't care too much there) -- but that's asking an awful lot from one dynamic.


 
 Take one for the team.  I will have my Susy Dynahi waiting for us to do a comparison.


----------



## 3X0

purk said:


> Like you, I have tried several amplifiers with the HD800, including the GS-X MKII, SuSy Dynahi, ECP DSHA-2 & L2, Apex Peak & Vocano, Questyle Monoblock, and HR Balanced Home w/ a Max module and at the end of day I always prefer my KGSSHV 500v/450v over the HD800 system.


 
 I'd recommend trying:
 1. a few other dynamic amps (perhaps with tubes)
 2. Focal Utopia
 3. HD 6X0
  
 In any combination.
  
 Doesn't suffer from the issues the 009+HV (tone, harmonics, upper-midrange/lower-treble glare) have that are unacceptable for the typical cost of admission.


----------



## mulveling

3x0 said:


> I'd recommend trying:
> 1. a few other dynamic amps (perhaps with tubes)
> 2. Focal Utopia
> 3. HD 6X0
> ...


 
 1. Very few people on earth have as extensive experience with high-end dynamic amps as Purk -- it's a lot more than what he listed there. There's simply no "unicorn" amp that's going to change our opinion of the HD800 vs. 009/he90. I'm of the opinion that the SDS XLR made it sound as good as it's gonna get, and I still didn't love it. 
  
 2. The Utopia is definitely an interesting new entry that deserves an audition. Maybe Purk will go in 50/50 on one with me!
  
 3. Purk and I both owned/enjoyed the HD 6X0, over many years (longer than we've been friends), and we like them a *lot* for the price BUT they're absolutely not competitive with the top 'stats 
  
 I could equally recommend for you to hear the 009 with different HV implementations, since the sound actually varies quite a lot between the various versions. The newer "minis" tend to cause problems on the top end of the spectrum (e.g. the glare you referenced), and I don't think they're a good buy for use with the 009 (007 Mk I is a different story). The sonic opposite of this would be the full-size 450V Sanyo builds; very warm and relaxed up top -- and of course that amp is good for the 009 but not so much the 007 Mk I (too warm/dark).


----------



## purk

3x0 said:


> I'd recommend trying:
> 1. a few other dynamic amps (perhaps with tubes)
> 2. Focal Utopia
> 3. HD 6X0
> ...


 
 1.  I had SDS-XLR at one point and that was a superb sounding amp.  The closest my HD800 or my other dynamics ever get to my top-end stax rig.
 2.  So you like the Utopia better than the SR009?  I have the HE90 and they are my favorite headphones so far.  I'm trying to convince Muveling to take one for the team!
 3.  I actually love my HD650 and they were superbly great out of my SDS-XLR, still no HD800.  The HD800 simply scale better.
  
 I think we just have to agree that we are a bit differ in term of our preference.


----------



## comzee

Can we quantify "better"?
  
 One thing that got me to switch, was finding out my HD800 had the capability of more microdetail.
  
 I used a Lehmann BCL for awhile on my HD800, great pairing. Although nobodies going to say it's a super transparent amp.
  
 A quick note on words too, transparency/resolution/microdetail are all synonymous for me. 
 The meaning for me is simple, what is the detail extraction level from the source material.
  
 For me with the HD800, I heard background vocals that had real tangible echos, and reverberations, that I simply could not hear on the 009/Carbon system.
 On one song I always thought it had a background electronic synthesizer, NO, it was actually a vocoded human voice.
  
 For that one song I noticed the synthesizer versus vocoded human voice, I had my roommate confirm that with me too.
 009/Carbon couldn't extract the nuance.
  
 Just keep in mind, my HD800 only had more resolution than the 009/Carbon with really good amps.
 The 009/Carbon for me blew away the HD800 in 3D sound placement. This is murky water in regards to word usage, but the 009/Carbon "hit" harder to me, whatever you want to make of that.
  
 It does come down to preference, for me the nuances outweigh the pros of 009/Carbon.
_I can't speak on Stax as a whole_, such as DIY-T2/BHSE/007 that I've never heard, I'll put that out there.


----------



## purk

If you don't mind me asking, who built your Carbon?  I think it is the case that you prefer one headphones over another and maybe not the amp.


----------



## JimL11

comzee said:


> Let me think off the top of my head what's out there for Stax amps:
> Stax stock amps
> Kevin Gilmore amps
> BHSE
> ...


 
 So, not sure what your point is.  Stat headphones are a niche market, a small fraction of the overall headphone market.  There are also a lot more non-stat headphone manufacturers, so it makes sense that with a much larger market for dynamic amps, with a much larger range of prices.
  
 The major manufacturer of stat amps is, of course, Stax.  And the price of them includes a cut for shippers, distributors, retail sellers, etc.  Technically these are quite sophisticated, however they all have simple passive power supplies.  Less expensive amps such as Kingsound are also significantly less competent, based on published schematics.  KG amps all have regulated power supplies,which is a significant increase in cost, and stat amps generally need to use high voltage parts, which are more expensive, and also need more parts to achieve their goals, specifically due to that high voltage requirement.  When you compare the price of KG amps to commercial Stax amps, the cost is very reasonable in my opinion.  Comparing prices with dynamic amps is an apples to oranges comparison.  It's like comparing the price of a Kia sedan to a Porsche sports car and saying the Porsche is overpriced because they are both cars.


----------



## comzee

jiml11 said:


> It's like comparing the price of a Kia sedan to a Porsche sports car and saying the Porsche is overpriced because they are both cars.


 
 I agree with everything except the quoted part, well said. I have a tough time articulating.
 That part quoted, is my "gotchya" though. I believe at the highest end dynamic it's completely unfair to say they are "Kia".
 I believe it does come down to preference, and HD800 does some things better (the things I like), and the 009/Carbon for sure did other things better.
  
 That means to me, it's more akin to Ferrari vs Lamborghini.
 Let us say for just for this example, a man is comparing a $500k Ferrari v.s. a $150 Lambo. (009 v.s. HD800)
 Many would chose the $500k Ferrari, but I'm sure some of us have seen British Top Gear?
 When they review a Lambo, they talk about its raw power, how savage it feels, Lambo has "its own" signature.
  
 Many might chose the Ferrari, some might chose the Lambo, one is $500k, the other is $150k, that's what I'm trying to articulate.
  
 I think to say Stax is "better" is a blanket statement, and an ill thought out one. I believe they can be to a much greater preference to some, but do not universally best every aspect of the hd800.


----------



## JimL11

Yes, you are correct, at the top end it is preference.  My overall point is that stat amps are generally intrinsically more expensive than comparable dynamic amps due to parts costs and the need for more parts in general.  Also, Stax is a good comparison point for baseline costs as they have never been a lets gold plate it and stick to the consumer type company.  I believe they charge fair prices for what they sell, and so comparing a more sophisticated KG amp price to them is reasonable, whereas comparing a KG amp  price to a dynamic amp is very difficult because of intrinsic differences in technology - that is the point of the Kia to Porsche compare.


----------



## hardpike

I just love this thread.... period


----------



## arnaud

The analogies are silly but may the comparison is between high end motorcycle and sports car. No matter what, the car should be more expensive due to the much larger number of parts etc... Apples and oranges, silly talk.


----------



## comzee

I get it, this thread is a bit "off da railz" as they say. Maybe this thread was better back when @Music Alchemist was posting?


----------



## 3X0

Well, there are at least two interpretations of value here: that of an engineer and that of a consumer.
  
 In light of parts involved, complexity and assembly (and let's not forget the casework, which is usually a non-trivial cost), sure the KGSSHV may be considered a decent value. The casework and attention to detail is one of the big reasons I really admire the BHSE and some of the more recent Carbon builds.
  
 I usually perceive value from the perspective of the consumer though, generally paying more attention to the qualitative aspects of the sound rather than the chassis or parts involved. From this angle, I'd rather have a few dynamic setups for less money than the HV+009.
  
 This also implies that I am less willing to forgive the deficiencies of the $5000 HV+009 than those of a HD 6X0 system for a fifth of the cost. This varies from person-to-person, as what bothers me about the former may be very tolerable for someone else (and the converse for the HD 6X0).


----------



## JimL11

arnaud said:


> The analogies are silly but may the comparison is between high end motorcycle and sports car. No matter what, the car should be more expensive due to the much larger number of parts etc... Apples and oranges, silly talk.


 

 Hey, Arnaud,
 I take your point.  Enough silliness, back to Stax.


----------



## nemomec

Electrostatic amps are more complex than the amps for the dynamic headphones. Other problem is a carefull engineering to provide the safety with the working high voltages. I don´t understand how people think they are to expensive!? There are so many high priced dynamic amps on the market with only a nice case and a few parts inside they costs more than a KGSS or KGSSHV. On the other side when you think the Sennheiser HD6x0 (i like the HD600 over many years but definitly not comparable to a serios e-stat setup) is your goal then ignore the e-stat market and spend 1/5 of the price in a HD6x0 setup. But I don´t know how people think that´s a endgame setup, its for me only average with a outstanding price performance not more!


----------



## Mach3

nemomec said:


> Electrostatic amps are more complex than the amps for the dynamic headphones. Other problem is a carefull engineering to provide the safety with the working high voltages. I don´t understand how people think they are to expensive!? There are so many high priced dynamic amps on the market with only a nice case and a few parts inside they costs more than a KGSS or KGSSHV. On the other side when you think the Sennheiser HD6x0 (i like the HD600 over many years but definitly not comparable to a serios e-stat setup) is your goal then ignore the e-stat market and spend 1/5 of the price in a HD6x0 setup. But I don´t know how people think that´s a endgame setup, its for me only average with a outstanding price performance not more!


 
 Totally agree with your statement. I've recently got into e-stats and boy am I seriously considering selling most of my dynamic collection to fund a decent staxs setup.


----------



## Pokemonn

how about srm252s


----------



## astrostar59

Comzee, who built your Carbon? Can you post a photo. Like Purk has already said, and reading others who have had them, some of the 'mini' KGSShv's are a bit brighter and more suited to the 007s than the 009. My KGSShv Sanyo was very warm, warmer than the BHSE and had superb bass. It was very forgiving up top as well, but also had lots of detail and micro detail. The main reason for moving to a Carbon is the later amp has better power supplies and all the advantages that brings. It also has a wider soundstage and better layering, more depth and more at ease when music gets complex and busy. On my KGSShv BTW I had NO, NONE, ZERO fatigue or issues with the treble. If that was the case with yours, it must be the amp build, the DAC or something else.
  
 What I have found over the last few years of Stax adventures, is they offer something else. I am not sure what that is, maybe speed, delicacy or just natural and undistorted in any way. Whatever it is I am addicted. Some don't have that addiction, and thus look for something that a top Stax setup can't do in their opinion.  Some say not as strong in the bass as the Abyss or LCD-3/4, others not as wide soundstage as the HD800s. But those aspects may or may not be realistic to others and there may be sacrifices elsewhere that those headphones don't do so well.
  
 So we have a situation where at the top end (Abyss, LCD-3/4, HE1000 etc) planers and dynamics can sound really good. And then the 007 and 009 of course.
  
 There is probably no point in railing this subject further, as just like some like Horn Speakers for there speed and dynamics, others hate them and say they are coloured. The topic will go no where.
  
 I am right now at ease with my setup. I don't track hunt or dive for the volume, I play anything I want and enjoy the sound. I don't have treble fatigue or 'digitises. I think I am finally sorted, end game. After spending £50K+ on HPs and Speakers I am pretty much done. I 'may' hear a better DAC, but I may not. I have tried a few top end contenders recently and it didn't work out.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

I know that we all hear different, ear canals' shape, age, musical tastes, etc, everything is a factor that determines our tastes with audio equipment...but damn, some people is deaf, I don't get how HD800/650/600 with any amp on the planet can be better than a medium Stax setup (not going to mention a big one).


----------



## Rossliew

Depends whether one wants to listen to music or the recording I suppose


----------



## rgs9200m

A top-notch Senn 600/650 system can be $20K usd easily (and beyond) because it (and most dynamics I find) need a lot of support to bring out the truth. A fine Stax system can actually be cheaper.


----------



## comzee

rgs9200m said:


> A top-notch Senn 600/650 system can be $20K usd easily (and beyond) because it (and most dynamics I find) need a lot of support to bring out the truth. A fine Stax system can actually be cheaper.


 
 A top-notch Stax system can be $100K usd easily (and beyond) because it (and most stax I find) need a lot of support to bring out the truth. A fine dynamic system can actually be cheaper.
  
 MSB estat amp $35k
 MSB Select Dac $90k,
  
 I wouldn't even consider Stax without those necessary components.


----------



## mulveling

rgs9200m said:


> A top-notch Senn 600/650 system can be $20K usd easily (and beyond) because it (and most dynamics I find) need a lot of support to bring out the truth. A fine Stax system can actually be cheaper.


 
 The megabuck HD6X0 system was maybe a valid approach in 2003-ish when the HD650 was new, and palette of high-end headphones was extremely limited, but I have a hard time backing this today when there are a lot more options for clearly superior headphones -- i.e. more expensive headphones that don't need such expensive upstream gear to exceed the HD6X0's ultimate performance limit. 
  
 What the HD6X0 is today is a really great, well-balanced, and musical headphone in the sub-$1K category. But the days of it scaling towards the upper limits of headphone performance are over. I've had the HD650 since 2003 (old and new versions now), an HD600, HD580, and (for a short time) HD580 Jubilee. I'm still more fond of this series than the HD800, which just plain sounds wrong to me.


----------



## hardpike

comzee said:


> A top-notch Stax system can be $100K usd easily (and beyond) because it (and most stax I find) need a lot of support to bring out the truth. A fine dynamic system can actually be cheaper.
> 
> MSB estat amp $35k
> MSB Select Dac $90k,
> ...



Lol


----------



## comzee

On a series note, has anybody heard the MSB electrostatic amp?
 Does it complete with KG amps?


----------



## 3X0

mulveling said:


> I'm still more fond of this [HD 6X0] series than the HD800, which just plain sounds wrong to me.


Same argument can be extended to HD 6X0 setups vs. HV+009 (as an example).

Latter just sounds plain wrong to me.


----------



## arnaud

mulveling said:


> What the HD6X0 is today is a really great, well-balanced, and musical headphone in the sub-USD500(make it 250 for a new HD600) category.




Corrected that for you . I still find this headphone very much relevant personally.

Or maybe you mean competitive range soundwise, in which case I agree.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

mulveling said:


> The megabuck HD6X0 system was maybe a valid approach in 2003-ish when the HD650 was new, and palette of high-end headphones was extremely limited, but I have a hard time backing this today when there are a lot more options for clearly superior headphones -- i.e. more expensive headphones that don't need such expensive upstream gear to exceed the HD6X0's ultimate performance limit.
> 
> What the HD6X0 is today is a really great, well-balanced, and musical headphone in the sub-$1K category. *But the days of it scaling towards the upper limits of headphone performance are over.* I've had the HD650 since 2003 (old and new versions now), an HD600, HD580, and (for a short time) HD580 Jubilee. I'm still more fond of this series than the HD800, which just plain sounds wrong to me.


 
  
 I think that's true, but after all, is it an 'old' headphone.  Having said that, despite having other much more expensive flagships, I can still plug in my HD600 and enjoy them just as much as back in the day - they have lost nothing.  I think "musical" is just the perfect way to describe them.  They really, truly are.


----------



## PATB

Yeah, I prefer the SR-009 in terms of pure sonic bliss, but I still use the HD650 far more, probably because it is too comfy; more comfortable than the HD800 actually.
  
 One tidbit of info.  I tried the HD800 with the SonarWorks plug-in (flat response curve) and it is just fantastic -- the difference is night and day; the best $100 I spent on "upgrades."  But when I use the plug-in to get a flat response for the HD650, I hardly notice any difference.  The plug-in does not make a big difference with the HD650.  In fact, the HD800 with the plug-in sounds like an HD650 without the plug-in


----------



## JimL11

> On a series note, has anybody heard the MSB electrostatic amp?
> Does it complete with KG amps?


 
  
  


comzee said:


> A top-notch Stax system can be $100K usd easily (and beyond) because it (and most stax I find) need a lot of support to bring out the truth. A fine dynamic system can actually be cheaper.
> 
> MSB estat amp $35k
> MSB Select Dac $90k,
> ...


 
  
 Wait a minute.  You aren';t really saying that the MSB with Stax is necessary when you haven't even heard it, are you?  My Stax SR007 plus SRX Plus cost way less than $3000.  I would guess that an SRX Plus if sold commercially would be about the price of a Stax amp or KGSS and sounds really good.


----------



## comzee

Come on now, what I was saying was obviously a joke riffing off what @rgs9200m said.


----------



## JimL11

OK, well it's harder to tell from the written word without emojis


----------



## dubharmonic

After using a new STAX SRS-5100 system 4+ hours a day for over a month, as my first experience with electrostatics, I thought I'd share some of my thoughts for anyone out there who might be electro-curious. 
  

They can take a lot of time to get used to. Electrostatics have changed the way that I listen to music. If science ever brings us the option for a direct neural audio interface, I'd imagine it would be similar to this. It's almost as if the signal is bypassing my eardrums entirely.
High volumes are usually unnecessary and uncomfortable. In the past I'd use volume as an attempt to hear more detail, but the Stax don't need to that to give you a full experience.
They do not react well to EQ. For a while I tried to push a little more sub-bass out of them, but this created what sounded like strange humps in the mid-bass. I'd recommend leaving the EQ off and letting your brain settle in.
  
 Have other electrostatics owners had similar experiences?


----------



## bnsb

dubharmonic said:


> After using a new STAX SRS-5100 system 4+ hours a day for over a month, as my first experience with electrostatics, I thought I'd share some of my thoughts for anyone out there who might be electro-curious.
> 
> 
> They can take a lot of time to get used to. Electrostatics have changed the way that I listen to music. If science ever brings us the option for a direct neural audio interface, I'd imagine it would be similar to this. It's almost as if the signal is bypassing my eardrums entirely.
> ...



Not my words but almost my thoughts


----------



## astrostar59

dubharmonic said:


> After using a new STAX SRS-5100 system 4+ hours a day for over a month, as my first experience with electrostatics, I thought I'd share some of my thoughts for anyone out there who might be electro-curious.
> 
> 
> They can take a lot of time to get used to. Electrostatics have changed the way that I listen to music. If science ever brings us the option for a direct neural audio interface, I'd imagine it would be similar to this. It's almost as if the signal is bypassing my eardrums entirely.
> ...


 

 Partly agree. The Lambda based HPs from Stax are still IMO a bit bass light and too excitable up top especially played louder. Yes transparency and soundstage is great. But to me the Stax range gets more exciting from the 007 and 009 (and driven by a great amplifier). The Lambdas fall apart a bit played louder, the illusion becomes too shouty and the sound balance becomes more 'tipped up'
  
 The bass response and dynamics of the higher level models is on an other level and more mirrors real life IMO. However the illusion can be retained on certain music types and played at mid volumes I admit as I used to love my LNS for many years.
  
 On EQ, the Lambda based units have a poor bass output anyway and may just get slower and thumpier responding to low frequency EQ. Also watch EQ on the server side as most music on bass energy levels is already close to 0dB, any EQ there will result in clipping (squared off wave forms) and will sound really nasty. Treble and mid range EQ is possible though. Try and use only one filter and set it as little as you can get away with. More effects will equate to loss of soundstage and it will seat to sound too processed.
  
 On HPs and speakers, the sound can also change as the ear reads it differently. For example I hear high frequency more easily at lower levels of playing music than low bass. In speakers you also have the mass of the drivers 'getting going' like a well oiled piston engine. At some level it is on song, really sounding great.
  
 I agree you can discern a lot of detail and decay / depth with Stax headphones over conventional types, and I think it is the speed of the drivers and how light (almost no mass) they carry. But bass drama and excitement goes up with some volume as I find it fills and energises the ear cups, bit like a big speaker system will energise the room. It gives you the nearest thing to hitting you in the chest type bass. Also the bass on the 009s in particular is very detailed and textures, no one note or annoying thud thud going on here. It gets you pumped up for sure! I have recently changed my DAC and the bass detail and depth is awesome. The 009s are a bass monster indeed.
  
 I guess in a concert it is more or less the opposite, as the mass of people standing or sitting in front absorb a lot of high frequency energy but the bass gets through. If the concert volume goes up, then the high frequency follows. It seems to be the opposite way round with HPs at home?
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## bmichels

astrostar59 said:


> .......Also the bass on the 009s in particular is very detailed and textures, no one note or annoying thud thud going on here. It gets you pumped up for sure! *I have recently changed my DAC *and the bass detail and depth is awesome. The 009s are a bass monster indeed.....


 
  
 I guess that you are reffering to your *Audio Note UK DAC 5 Special ? *
  
*- it looks like the lush of a tube DAC complement well the SR009, but...this must not be at *price of loosing some details.  It will indeed be a shame not to provide to the Stax SR009 all the micro-details that this wonderfully precise headphone can reproduce     So I guess that the *Audio Note DAC 5 Special *is precise despite his TUBES based architecture ?


----------



## astrostar59

bmichels said:


> I guess that you are reffering to your *Audio Note UK DAC 5 Special ? *
> 
> *- it looks like the lush of a tube DAC complement well the SR009, but...this must not be at *price of loosing some details.  It will indeed be a shame not to provide to the Stax SR009 all the micro-details that this wonderfully precise headphone can reproduce     So I guess that the *Audio Note DAC 5 Special *is precise despite his TUBES based architecture ?


 

 Yes I was referring to the Audio Note DAC 5. Actually many valves can go to 100 khz believe or not. The idea a tube based design is rolled off and syrupy is set in the past of poorly designed tube amplifiers with pathetic power supplies designed to budget. The DAC 5 is very detailed but not in your face or hifi. It might not wow somebody in a 30 minute demo but creaps up on you at home big time. I love the thing. I have had solid state DACs, many high end, other tube DACs, Delta-Sigma DACs, detail crazy stuff and others just plain boring.
  
 I would say the Audio Note majors on realistic timbre and smoothness, with nothing missing, but in balance, if that makes sense. I play loud at home many times, a good test if a digital source is working well. If you can play many of your music collection without cringing or rushing for the volume pot, it is a good sign.


----------



## Drumonron

Justin from headamp.com has the parts and will be
 performing the feedback mod to my newly purchased
STAX SRM-727II!!!  
 It should be shipping this week.  Looking forward to
 some STAX time!
  
 Have been using the STAX SRM-006TII
 Does anyone think I'll hear any improvements
 on the 007mk2 or the 009s?


----------



## Michgelsen

drumonron said:


> Justin from headamp.com has the parts and will be
> performing the feedback mod to my newly purchased
> STAX SRM-727II!!!
> It should be shipping this week.  Looking forward to
> ...


 
  
 I think so, but please tell us about your findings.


----------



## wuwhere

At some point in time I may go Stax. After reading a lot of posts here and learning as well, the first thing I should do is get a good KG amp.


----------



## 3X0

Nah, save your money and go with a 323S to start. Migrate to the BHSE or KGSSHV Carbon as budget allows.


----------



## Sorrodje

@3X0 : I'll come in the US with @JimL11 SRX plus I'll receive soon  . Maybe something interesting to hear for you ?


----------



## wuwhere

There's one used KGSSHV Carbon in the FS right now but at $$$$.
 I'm looking at a new 'SR-007 Omega II Mk2 Open Back Headphones (Black)' from Elusive Disc.
 Is the 323S good with that?


----------



## purk

wuwhere said:


> There's one used KGSSHV Carbon in the FS right now but at $$$$.
> I'm looking at a new 'SR-007 Omega II Mk2 Open Back Headphones (Black)' from Elusive Disc.
> Is the 323S good with that?


 
 Nope.  The SR007 in general needs at least a KGST or KGSSHV to sound really good.  You will be disappointed with the 323S.  It isn't bad but that amp just can't drive the 007 properly and it will cause it to sound slow, dark, and slightly bloated.


----------



## wuwhere

purk said:


> Nope.  The SR007 in general needs at least a KGST or KGSSHV to sound really good.  You will be disappointed with the 323S.  It isn't bad but that amp just can't drive the 007 properly and it will cause it to sound slow, dark, and slightly bloated.


 
  
 That's why I want to buy a used KGSSHV 500V(?) first. I know its ~2.5K.


----------



## mulveling

wuwhere said:


> That's why I want to buy a used KGSSHV 500V(?) first. I know its ~2.5K.


 
 A good 500V KGSShv build is an excellent choice for the 007. I don't think it should cost as much as 2500 on the used market these days. Anything priced that high, you should either bargain or wait for it to come down in price. The Mjolnir units do tend to ask a premium, though I don't think they're worth it.


----------



## IridiumEagle

I bought a used GeorgeP built KGHSSV Carbon with new 2016 007 MK2s (no mods). The level of awesome is extremely high. Best I've ever heard. My points of "reference" are BM5A studio reference monitors: http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/dynaudio-bm5a
 and a May 2016 LCD-X. I'll probably post a detailed review here or on reddit at some point.


----------



## wuwhere

mulveling said:


> A good 500V KGSShv build is an excellent choice for the 007. I don't think it should cost as much as 2500 on the used market these days. Anything priced that high, you should either bargain or wait for it to come down in price. The Mjolnir units do tend to ask a premium, though I don't think they're worth it.


 
  
 Thanks for the info. I'm not in a hurry to do this that's why I want to get the amp first. I know I can always buy the 007 later but the right amp is more expensive.


----------



## TheAttorney

I've been considering EQ for my SR-009.
  
 Background: I feel the 009's are the most transparent and neutral headphones I've ever heard (there's a lot I haven't heard), but that doesn't mean they're perfect - particularly when handling "hot" recordings that include an artificial presence lift. Plus, although I feel that the 009's bass is generally peerless, they never add bass if it's not there in the recording, and anaemic bass sadly occurs all too frequently with lesser recordings.
  
 So, for those less than ideal recordings, I predicted that a touch of  EQ reduction in the upper mids, plus a touch of lift in the lower bass, would make the 009's even more perfect than they already are. I remembered from way back the Stax Mafia were concerned about a 4khz hump, so that was my starting point with the only Equalizer I had easily to hand: The simple one built into JRiver MC20. That had limited options, so I upped  60hz and dropped 3khz and, to a lesser extent, 6khz. later I'll evolve to the parametric EQ, but am keeping it simple to get started.
  
 A few variations of above showed some promise, but nothing jaw dropping. Then I looked at Tyll's compensated measurements in top left in the link below. 
  
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR009.pdf
  


> These to me show  a broad mild hump around 1khz (compared to bass) and a sharp narrow drop at 6khz and, erm, that's about it really (I'm not concerned about the high frequencies) - nothing here that gives any indication of what is causing any brightness. The raw measurements do show a lift in the 3-5khz area, but my limited understanding is that the (harman curve) compensated version is what humans actually hear in their ear drums.
> 
> So my questions are:
> 
> ...


----------



## 3X0

Interested to see where you end up. Sub-bass and upper-midrange/lower-treble are also my main complaints with the SR-009, and it'd be a more competitive flagship if these issues were ameliorated.


----------



## Tinkerer

wuwhere said:


> That's why I want to buy a used KGSSHV 500V(?) first. I know its ~2.5K.


 
  
 You can have mine (500v onboard v5 with the servo) for 1.8K+shipping if you want. I use it on my 007 Early and love it but I'm working on building a new amp. Has RCA+balanced input but no looped output, overspecced toroidy transformer (dual 115 primary so I can wire it to pretty much whatever voltage you need), and a decent modern generation RK27 quad potentiometer. Has a couple small scratches on the case from when the case was shipped to me. Shoot me a PM if you're interested or want pictures.


----------



## zolkis

theattorney said:


> I've been considering EQ for my SR-009.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 IMHO EQ will ruin important aspects in the perceived sound quality no matter what, to more extent than the benefits it may bring, but depending on music type, that may not be a problem. However, I can ask the Signalyst (he's sitting next to me at work) whether including EQ in HQ player would be an option. What I would do (and have done for experiment) with the 009
 - 3-6 dB increase around 25 Hz (optionally 6 db at 25 Hz, 3 dB at 40 Hz and flat at 60 Hz)
 - 3-6 dB decrease around 4 kHz (you can take it wide from 1000 to 4500 Hz), that is where presence is a bit lifted
 - 3-6 dB decrease around 12 kHz (you can also do -2-3 dB at 10 kHz, and 3-6 dB at 12 kHz).
  
 The apparent 6 kHz dip probably comes from measurement tech, I don't hear it when playing a sweep (only relative to the 4 kHz bump), I tried compensating there but IMHO it is not needed.
  
 However, the 009 is good enough to convey musicality even though the FR could be even more even. The harmonic structure (the ratio and distribution of harmonics) is more important than the FR alone (I have earlier linked here the study made by Harbeth about this). The primary difference between the 009 and SR-Ω is IMHO not so much in the FR, but in the harmonic structure, in the favor of the latter. And that is probably one of the reasons why I prefer my modded 007 Mk1 over the 009, even though its FR is quite much worse. The 009 sounds a bit thin in comparison (but also more true to the timbre, more lean and more neutral, with better presence and more "light" in the presentation). Probably source pairing can help with that. 
  
Apart from the treble, I was able to produce the rest of the EQ with a small mod to the pads, 1) adding a crescent moon shaped felt or foam piece under the thick portion of the ear pads, preferably inside the pads; 2) by replacing the 4 mm thick white disk on the ear pad filling with wool felt disk. The first is less intrusive, easier, and most people like it. Do experiment with different materials, different sizes, densities and thicknesses.


----------



## wuwhere

tinkerer said:


> You can have mine (500v onboard v5 with the servo) for 1.8K+shipping if you want. I use it on my 007 Early and love it but I'm working on building a new amp. Has RCA+balanced input but no looped output, overspecced toroidy transformer (dual 115 primary so I can wire it to pretty much whatever voltage you need), and a decent modern generation RK27 quad potentiometer. Has a couple small scratches on the case from when the case was shipped to me. Shoot me a PM if you're interested or want pictures.


 
  
 Thanks. I'll PM you if I become interested in your amp.


----------



## TheAttorney

zolkis said:


> IMHO EQ will ruin important aspects in the perceived sound quality no matter what, to more extent than the benefits it may bring, but depending on music type, that may not be a problem. However, I can ask the Signalyst (he's sitting next to me at work) whether including EQ in HQ player would be an option.


 
 Thank you zolkis. Very helpful.
  
 It was certainly the case in the analogue past that tone controls and equalizers were frowned upon by purists for doing more harm than good - apart from maybe if you were rich enough to afford a Cello equalizer. And it's one reason I haven't got round to it until now. But I was wondering if equalizers did less harm in the digital domain?
  
 You can add EQ to HQP via 3rd party apps and there's some impressively spec'd professional ones around, but I'm doing baby steps first to see if it's going to be worth the effort. I'd be interested to hear if Signalyst (Miska?) considers the Pro ones don't harm the sound compared to say the freebie ones built into JRMC.
  
 Anyway, I'll give your EQ settings a try when I'm back home..


----------



## arnaud

We could always hope for an 009mk2 in the near future although they seem to focus more on the other end of the product line lately.
 Fujiya fall headphone festival is coming up, let's keep our hopes up .
 arnaud


----------



## JimL11

iridiumeagle said:


> I bought a used GeorgeP built KGHSSV Carbon with new 2016 007 MK2s (no mods).


 
 Do the port mod to your Mk2s and it will sound even better - more even and deeper bass.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

jiml11 said:


> Do the port mod to your Mk2s and it will sound even better - more even and deeper bass.


 
  
 Just did it via Spitzer's instructions.  Took no time at all, 5-10 mins top.  Let see if I can hear any difference.


----------



## joseph69

sko0bydoo said:


> Just did it via Spitzer's instructions.  Took no time at all, 5-10 mins top.  Let see if I can hear any difference.


 
 Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## purk

arnaud said:


> We could always hope for an 009mk2 in the near future although they seem to focus more on the other end of the product line lately.
> Fujiya fall headphone festival is coming up, let's keep our hopes up .
> arnaud


 
 I have high hope for Stax though my wallet and bank account wish otherwise.


----------



## CalvinW

I understand that the 007 is often described as being dark if it is being driven by a less powerful amp, but isn't the voltage swing of an amp just directly correlates with the volume? I have extremely sensitive ears, so I usually just listen at the 0.5 volume level (out of 10) on the 353X, and it doesn't sound dark to me at all. Is it because the amp still has enough voltage swing to power them properly at lower volumes? On the other hand, my friend tried it and said his normal listening volume was around 3 or 4. Wouldn't the 007 only benefit from using a KGSShv at higher volume levels in order to have enough voltage headroom to prevent loose bass and sounding dark?


----------



## astrostar59

calvinw said:


> I understand that the 007 is often described as being dark if it is being driven by a less powerful amp, but isn't the voltage swing of an amp just directly correlates with the volume? I have extremely sensitive ears, so I usually just listen at the 0.5 volume level (out of 10) on the 353X, and it doesn't sound dark to me at all. Is it because the amp still has enough voltage swing to power them properly at lower volumes? On the other hand, my friend tried it and said his normal listening volume was around 3 or 4. Wouldn't the 007 only benefit from using a KGSShv at higher volume levels in order to have enough voltage headroom to prevent loose bass and sounding dark?


 

 The quality of an amplifier comes through at low OR high volumes. I know where you are coming from, but in practice I found the SQ was so much better on a KGSShv and the 007s to my previous 717 amp it sounded better at any volume.
  
 Voltage swing, dynamic range is one thing, actual sound quality is more than that. Otherwise any hifi setup would sound the same at a lower level, and they don't.


----------



## Rossliew

Personally, i would agree the 007 is dark sounding, something akin to a HD600 perhaps?


----------



## 3X0

I think a few years back someone found the 323S and KGSS to sound roughly the same at the same volume level. I believe I found the 323S to sound preferable to the HV at any volume. YMMV, etc.


----------



## purk

3x0 said:


> I think a few years back someone found the 323S and KGSS to sound roughly the same at the same volume level. I believe I found the 323S to sound preferable to the HV at any volume. YMMV, etc.


 
 This is not true.  The 323S isn't even as good sounding as the 717, let alone the KGSS.  The 717 offers a more refined presentation including better imaging and better soundstage despite its some what darker tonality.  The KGSS is said to be better than the 717 so I don't see how the 323S can match the sound quality of the KGSS.  Still, I rate the 323S very highly especially for the price that you can get them for.


----------



## 3X0

I chose my words very carefully i.e. "preferable to" rather than "better than."

I heard the HV as being unacceptably etched in the upper registers for my tastes over several occasions and various different units.

I posed a similar question a few years back e.g. "shouldn't the 323S sound sufficiently competent when operated within its means?" I was never able to solicit an (easily-digestible) answer for that one. I understand many folks with Stax like to crank it up, but I'm not one of them.


----------



## purk

3x0 said:


> I chose my words very carefully i.e. "preferable to" rather than "better than."
> 
> I heard the HV as being unacceptably etched in the upper registers for my tastes over several occasions and various different units.
> 
> I posed a similar question a few years back e.g. "shouldn't the 323S sound sufficiently competent when operated within its means?" I was never able to solicit an (easily-digestible) answer for that one. I understand many folks with Stax like to crank it up, but I'm not one of them.


 
 I had them side by side hence my answer.  Really though I love the 323S and miss it too.  It definitely has one of a more neutral sounding tonal balanced among any Stax amp.  Still, the 717 was able to resolve details better and place the instrument in a more precise location within the soundstage.  That isn't a preference but IMO a better refinement. The soundstage on  the 323S is smaller and flat.  Still, it one heck of a deal in headphone amplifier.


----------



## Rossliew

Purk, between the 717 and SRM-T1S, which would be preferred sonically and why?
  
 I was thinking of getting the L700 and pairing it with either the 717 or the T1S. For metal


----------



## comzee

I want to get back into Stax, but with a tube amp.
 How much better is KGST than Octave/Woo Ges?
  
 Is there anywhere I could get a KGST for < $3k?
  
 Also, what would mesh better with a tube amp, L500 or L700?
 Or maybe even 007A?


----------



## purk

rossliew said:


> Purk, between the 717 and SRM-T1S, which would be preferred sonically and why?
> 
> I was thinking of getting the L700 and pairing it with either the 717 or the T1S. For metal


 
 I still go with the 717.  The T1W that I used to have was definitely a little flabby in the bass response but it was very good with the Lambda Pro.  The 717 will also work good with the SR009 and can get you start on the 007 MKI.


----------



## Rossliew

purk said:


> I still go with the 717.  The T1W that I used to have was definitely a little flabby in the bass response but it was very good with the Lambda Pro.  The 717 will also work good with the SR009 and can get you start on the 007 MKI.


 

 Thanks for the advice, Purk. 
  
 Would you reckon the lambdas be matching with something like the KGSSHV?


----------



## purk

rossliew said:


> Thanks for the advice, Purk.
> 
> Would you reckon the lambdas be matching with something like the KGSSHV?


 
 I would go with the 450V KGSSHV however just because some Lambdas can have a strident treble.


----------



## Rossliew

purk said:


> I would go with the 450V KGSSHV however just because some Lambdas can have a strident treble.


 

 I see..will take note of that. Thanks again


----------



## zolkis

theattorney said:


> You can add EQ to HQP via 3rd party apps and there's some impressively spec'd professional ones around, but I'm doing baby steps first to see if it's going to be worth the effort. I'd be interested to hear if Signalyst (Miska?) considers the Pro ones don't harm the sound compared to say the freebie ones built into JRMC.
> 
> Anyway, I'll give your EQ settings a try when I'm back home..


 
  
 Both are alias names . He said he considers adding parametric EQ in a future version of HQ Player, but you can already do it.  Any linear transformation will work through the convolution filters (parametric EQ, measurement + compensation, reverb, etc) - the convolution setup just needs to load the impulse response wav file for the EQ, which you can create e.g. with RoomEQWizard
 (File->Export->Filters impulse response as WAV). Make a search on "hqplayer convolution impulse response" and "roomeqwizard eq impulse response wav".


----------



## wuwhere

Is there a big components difference between an Mjölnir built vs. other builders built KGSSHV amps? Are the pcbs the same?


----------



## Tinkerer

wuwhere said:


> Is there a big components difference between an Mjölnir built vs. other builders built KGSSHV amps? Are the pcbs the same?


 

 It's just case by case. Looking at the internals of an amp will tell you the quality.


----------



## wuwhere

tinkerer said:


> It's just case by case. Looking at the internals of an amp will tell you the quality.


 
  
 Are they hand-soldered? Are parts swapped with those expensive caps and resistors?


----------



## mulveling

wuwhere said:


> Are they hand-soldered? Are parts swapped with those expensive caps and resistors?


 
 Yes, all builds are hand-soldered. Mjolnir uses their own circuit boards, often with various revisions/tweaks vs. the other DIY build boards (which are usually obtained via group-buy runs). And you're more likely to find exotic/expensive parts and casing in the non-Mjolnir builds. I mean, the Mjolnir guy charges an extra $200 for a freaking black anodized faceplate (versus silver) on a very plain-jane case.


----------



## wuwhere

mulveling said:


> Yes, all builds are hand-soldered. Mjolnir uses their own circuit boards, often with various revisions/tweaks vs. the other DIY build boards (which are usually obtained via group-buy runs). And you're more likely to find exotic/expensive parts and casing in the non-Mjolnir builds. I mean, the Mjolnir guy charges an extra $200 for a freaking black anodized faceplate (versus silver) on a very plain-jane case.


 
  
 Who supplies the values of the parts or BOM, I guess. The reason why I ask is the private builds would all sound slightly different from each other. So really there is no reference build.


----------



## Tinkerer

wuwhere said:


> Who supplies the values of the parts or BOM, I guess. The reason why I ask is the private builds would all sound slightly different from each other. So really there is no reference build.


 
  
 Usually, people just get what they can that is actually available while leaning toward certain quality brands. Like a lot of people will use Dale CMF60's for their resistors. Top quality. But the 442k ones needed for the 450V build GR fat PSU aren't available for small amounts on Mouser or Digikey. People used to use Xicons for that value which are good but those aren't available either. I hunted down some old stock TG3-RN60's which were a Tiger build of the same Dale resistor back about thirty years ago and they work great, all measured sub-1% tolerance.
  
 Big caps are usually by group buy since you can get them for twelve or so dollars apiece versus almost forty apiece if you went it alone. Same for some of the harder to attain transistors.
  
 Really, the wire, transformer, volume potentiometer, resistor brands, and the smaller ceramic and film caps are the only honestly variable points outside case layout. Well, that and how well everything is heatsinked which determines your maximum current. But the big caps, transistors, OPamps, diodes, and such are all pretty much the same.


----------



## purk

wuwhere said:


> Who supplies the values of the parts or BOM, I guess. The reason why I ask is the private builds would all sound slightly different from each other. So really there is no reference build.


 
 There is no such thing as a reference build.  So naturally they will sound slightly difference but I have yet to encounter any KG amps that are under performed.  In fact, they are quite excellent for the price.  However, you can also get a quality dynamic amplifiers in a used market as well.


----------



## wuwhere

tinkerer said:


> Usually, people just get what they can that is actually available while leaning toward certain quality brands. Like a lot of people will use Dale CMF60's for their resistors. Top quality. But the 442k ones needed for the 450V build GR fat PSU aren't available for small amounts on Mouser or Digikey. People used to use Xicons for that value which are good but those aren't available either. I hunted down some old stock TG3-RN60's which were a Tiger build of the same Dale resistor back about thirty years ago and they work great, all measured sub-1% tolerance.
> 
> Big caps are usually by group buy since you can get them for twelve or so dollars apiece versus almost forty apiece if you went it alone. Same for some of the harder to attain transistors.
> 
> Really, the wire, transformer, volume potentiometer, resistor brands, and the smaller ceramic and film caps are the only honestly variable points outside case layout. Well, that and how well everything is heatsinked which determines your maximum current. But the big caps, transistors, OPamps, diodes, and such are all pretty much the same.


 
  
 The big caps are not cheap. I replaced the old Mallory caps on my tube amp with Nichicon, they were like $60 or $80 apiece?
  


purk said:


> There is no such thing as a reference build.  So naturally they will sound slightly difference but I have yet to encounter any KG amps that are under performed.  In fact, they are quite excellent for the price.  However, you can also get a quality dynamic amplifiers in a used market as well.


 
  
 I'm not questioning the price/performance here. What I'm curious about is the difference in sound. I've read the Carbon is dry compared to T2, wider soundstage compared to the older ones... But there is a big price difference. I know diminishing returns. So if an old used KGSSHV is 85% to 90% of the best for ~2K or less, I'm good.


----------



## purk

wuwhere said:


> The big caps are not cheap. I replaced the old Mallory caps on my tube amp with Nichicon, they were like $60 or $80 apiece?
> 
> 
> I'm not questioning the price/performance here. What I'm curious about is the difference in sound. I've read the Carbon is dry compared to T2, wider soundstage compared to the older ones... But there is a big price difference. I know diminishing returns. So if an old used KGSSHV is 85% to 90% of the best for ~2K or less, I'm good.


 
 The best deal is to wait and buy a used KGSSHV Carbon for around 3.5k.


----------



## wuwhere

purk said:


> The best deal is to wait and buy a used KGSSHV Carbon for around 3.5k.


 
  
 I think you're right.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

purk said:


> The best deal is to wait and buy a used KGSSHV Carbon for around 3.5k.


 
  
 Or build one, diy.  It can be had for half the price easily (i've done it).


----------



## purk

sko0bydoo said:


> Or build one, diy.  It can be had for half the price easily (i've done it).


 
 More power to you but do you have a fancy case work?  I think a fancy case work can be almost $700 - $800 by itself.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

purk said:


> More power to you but do you have a fancy case work?  I think a fancy case work can be almost $700 - $800 by itself.


 
  
 There are many fancy Carbon chassis out there that I'm drooling for.  Mine is pre-fab, Chinese made ~$200, not pretty, but it works.  Many thanks to Dr. Gilmore for making the amp design freely available to the diy community!


----------



## astrostar59

wuwhere said:


> I'm not questioning the price/performance here. What I'm curious about is the difference in sound. I've read the Carbon is dry compared to T2, wider soundstage compared to the older ones... But there is a big price difference. I know diminishing returns. So if an old used KGSSHV is 85% to 90% of the best for ~2K or less, I'm good.


 
 I had the KGSShv Sanyo off-board version. It is a warm sounding amp and brilliant IMO. I loved it and had 2 for both my set-ups. I now have the Carbon. The Carbon is better, but not be miles. It is slightly more transparent (may be an issue on some systems with the 009s?) is not as warm, more 'invisible, slightly wider soundstage. But both amps are fantastic, totally slay the Stax amps, you can't go wrong.
  
 If money is tight, and you find a Sanyo KGSShv off-board, I would snap it up. I have read that other versions of the KGSShv (IXYS, Mini, some on-boards) may sound different. So my advice is look for a Sanyo version. Trust me, you will be happy. And TBH that amp is more forgiving with the 009s and many DACs. Many DACs are a bit bright and digital sounding, the Sanyo amp reduces that IMO. I could listen all day, no fatigue, just pure enjoyment. 
  
 Does that answer your question? PM me if you want more.


----------



## John Buchanan

comzee said:


> A top-notch Stax system can be $100K usd easily (and beyond) because it (and most stax I find) need a lot of support to bring out the truth. A fine dynamic system can actually be cheaper.
> 
> MSB estat amp $35k
> MSB Select Dac $90k,
> ...


 
 Now you're being ridiculous.


----------



## yates7592

I think there was a heavy dose of sarcasm in there somewhere.


----------



## hardpike

Yeah
I think it was
Stax threads have a lot of it
For some reason...weird people around here


----------



## wuwhere

astrostar59 said:


> If money is tight, and you find a Sanyo KGSShv off-board, I would snap it up. I have read that other versions of the KGSShv (IXYS, Mini, some on-boards) may sound different. So my advice is look for a Sanyo version. Trust me, you will be happy. And TBH that amp is more forgiving with the 009s and many DACs. Many DACs are a bit bright and digital sounding, the Sanyo amp reduces that IMO. I could listen all day, no fatigue, just pure enjoyment.
> 
> Does that answer your question? PM me if you want more.


 
  
 Money is always tight, after all this is only a hobby. Yea, I'm only interested in listening pleasure.


----------



## zolkis

If one is short on money and still wants the best (or near), I also seriously suggest learning into DIY, or buying second hand (and wait until things become available second hand).
  
 There is no "cheap and good" really. You must put the necessary parts in, and you must put the hours in. If you can make money by spending time in other way, pay someone to do it for you. Otherwise learn to do it. Or make up your mind to put down the money people ask for it. There is no free lunch.
  
 I risk saying there are also sufficiently good/musical and relatively cheap Stax amps out there that are not as technically perfect as the KG designs, but if you don't listen too loud they are good and musical enough to enjoy most types of music. However, you tend to get what you pay for, and you should know what you want.
  
 If what you want is changing over time, then you need an upgrade, and that is going to cost money and time (both on the loss and on the upgrade). I would argue that time is more precious than money (well, at my "second half" age).
  
 So stop chasing miracles, there are not many in this hobby.
  
 It is hard to make decisions, but we must make decisions. One of the above .


----------



## wuwhere

I think there is a misunderstanding with what I said here. What I said is if I can buy a good used KG amp, I'm good. I never considered a Stax amp. Let me be clear, there is a used KG amp in the FS that I can afford. My question is how good or bad is it compared to the best. If its 85% to 90% then I'm good.


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## zolkis

Of course - what I said also applies to me . I think the 85-90% is there, so go after Astrostar's advice, you'll be fine.


----------



## wuwhere

zolkis said:


> Of course - what I said also applies to me . I think the 85-90% is there, so go after Astrostar's advice, you'll be fine.


 
  
 Thanks   My budget is about 4K to 4.5K for a new 007 and a used KGSSHV amp. There was a suggestion to wait for a used Carbon for about 3.5K. Since I'm not in a hurry I might just do that. This is going to be my endgame system, at least for a while.


----------



## astrostar59

wuwhere said:


> Thanks   My budget is about 4K to 4.5K for a new 007 and a used KGSSHV amp. There was a suggestion to wait for a used Carbon for about 3.5K. Since I'm not in a hurry I might just do that. This is going to be my endgame system, at least for a while.


 

 There are Carbons that sound different as well. Don't want to complicate things....
  
 I have jumped through so many hoops in this hobby plus the speaker side as well. IMO music now out of a KGSShv is brilliant, better than waiting, for what? If you get some more dough later, sell on the KGSShv, you won't loose much as long as you buy carefully. Myself I can't be without tunes for a few days, never mind months....
  
 I BET you you will love the KGSShv amp, and get an 009 and Carbon later! You WILL be addicted, it is hopeless to resist, I tried and it didn't work. But my original 007 & Stax SRM-717 led to KGSShv then 009s then Carbon. But it all sounded great and was immensely enjoyable along the way. The jump from the 717 was big, the KGSShv to Carbon less so. The 007 to 009, more obvious. But to run a Carbon or BHSE and the 009's you must have a smooth DAC (good sound quality) or you will not be happy. The 007 is more forgiving, so don't ignore that fact, i.e. you might need to budget for a DAC change as well. No idea what DAC you use right now, did you say?


----------



## Tinkerer

wuwhere said:


> Thanks   My budget is about 4K to 4.5K for a new 007 and a used KGSSHV amp. There was a suggestion to wait for a used Carbon for about 3.5K. Since I'm not in a hurry I might just do that. This is going to be my endgame system, at least for a while.


 

 They're pretty close in design. You just have to look at the circuits between the two. The main difference is probably some of the improved onboard sinking for stuff that didn't have it before like the low voltage supply, as well as using the newer C2M1000170D mosfets.


----------



## astrostar59

tinkerer said:


> They're pretty close in design. You just have to look at the circuits between the two. The main difference is probably some of the improved onboard sinking for stuff that didn't have it before like the low voltage supply, as well as using the newer C2M1000170D mosfets.


 

 They are very different IMO. SiC Fets are nearest to triodes as possible, then you have the regulated shunt PS, the 2 extra LV boards, bigger mains trans. It is all about the better power supply and the SiC Fets really.
  
 On the KGSShv, you have on-board and off-board. Off-board swings more amps (about 10 mA) and usually more volts as well. Then the Fets are different across various builds. Full size and mini sized chassis with mini power supply. They may / do sound different.


----------



## wuwhere

With my gadget budget this year, I only have about 2K cash left after getting a Mac and Dell laptops, software, new Android phone, etc... With that 2K I can either get a new 007 or a used KGSSHV but not both. One has to wait 'til next year's budget


----------



## 3X0

$2k is enough for a used 007A and 323S, possibly even a used 717 or 727 if you're lucky. You'd then be free to save up towards a Carbon or better.

The question is whether you want to listen to internet pundits or listen for yourself.


----------



## purk

3x0 said:


> $2k is enough for a used 007A and 323S, possibly even a used 717 or 727 if you're lucky. You'd then be free to save up towards a Carbon or better.
> 
> The question is whether you want to listen to internet pundits or listen for yourself.


 
 Based on 2K I would second this as well.  However, I must stress that you will need the 717 at the minimum.  And don't blame us on the sound of the SR-007 until you upgrade to a much better amp.


----------



## wuwhere

3x0 said:


> $2k is enough for a used 007A and 323S, possibly even a used 717 or 727 if you're lucky. You'd then be free to save up towards a Carbon or better.
> 
> The question is whether you want to listen to internet pundits or listen for yourself.


 
  
  


purk said:


> Based on 2K I would second this as well.  However, I must stress that you will need the 717 at the minimum.  And don't blame us on the sound of the SR-007 until you upgrade to a much better amp.


 
  
 Thanks guys. I may just do that. I may just be content with that since I haven't heard anything better yet. Hell, I haven't even heard any Stax for that matter. All I've got right now are a HiFiMan HE-6, Senn HD600, Ety 4S/P, etc...


----------



## rgs9200m

I don't think anyone should buy an SR009 before they have listened to both the SR007 and the SR009 (or at least one of them). I would not just buy the SR009 because of an assumption that it is more expensive and therefore "better", whatever that means. 
 If you can't try before you buy, I feel it would be safer to get the SR007. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## wuwhere

I'll buy from HeadAmp, they have a 30-day return policy. Gotta get an amp first.


----------



## zolkis

wuwhere said:


> With my gadget budget this year, I only have about 2K cash left after getting a Mac and Dell laptops, software, new Android phone, etc... With that 2K I can either get a new 007 or a used KGSSHV but not both. One has to wait 'til next year's budget


 
  
 With 2K, and if you have a good speaker amp (tube amp recommended), I would buy a used 007, that leaves about 500 euros for a used Verto transformer box (perhaps even new is feasible), or otherwise an SRD-7 Pro (and you get money to spare). The Mjölnir transformer box is better, but you might run out of 2K then. IMHO all of these are going to sound better with the 007 than a 323S (and I have had all of them except the Mjölnir). Actually the Verto box + tube amp sounds pretty darn impressive with the 009, and that is a combination I would recommend over a 007 + KGSShv for people who don't already know for sure they prefer a 007 over the 009 (I do).
  
 So the first question you must know your personal answer for is whether do you prefer a 009 or a 007 (and Mk1 or Mk2 for that). People usually prefer one of these more, and more people seem to prefer the 009. Of course that blows the 2K budget, but you can do a 3K budget for the Verto + 009, have an excellent system NOW (time, time, time), and later you can buy a used Carbon. The only thing you'll need to sell is the Verto box. Even if Stax makes a new Omega, you will likely not afford it. So I recommend this path, of course only if you have a good speaker amp and like the 009 more.
  
 Back to the 2K budget, if you don't already have a good speaker amp, then it is harder choice, for the budget I would say get a used 252S and learn to build a good power supply for it.


----------



## wuwhere

zolkis said:


> With 2K, and if you have a good speaker amp (tube amp recommended), I would buy a used 007, that leaves about 500 euros for a used Verto transformer box (perhaps even new is feasible), or otherwise an SRD-7 Pro (and you get money to spare). The Mjölnir transformer box is better, but you might run out of 2K then. IMHO all of these are going to sound better with the 007 than a 323S (and I have had all of them except the Mjölnir). Actually the Verto box + tube amp sounds pretty darn impressive with the 009, and that is a combination I would recommend over a 007 + KGSShv for people who don't already know for sure they prefer a 007 over the 009 (I do).
> 
> So the first question you must know your personal answer for is whether do you prefer a 009 or a 007 (and Mk1 or Mk2 for that). People usually prefer one of these more, and more people seem to prefer the 009. Of course that blows the 2K budget, but you can do a 3K budget for the Verto + 009, have an excellent system NOW (time, time, time), and later you can buy a used Carbon. The only thing you'll need to sell is the Verto box. Even if Stax makes a new Omega, you will likely not afford it. So I recommend this path, of course only if you have a good speaker amp and like the 009 more.
> 
> Back to the 2K budget, if you don't already have a good speaker amp, then it is harder choice, for the budget I would say get a used 252S and learn to build a good power supply for it.


 
  
 I do have 2 very good (I think) tube speaker amps, an Audio Research D70B (60w/ch) and a Copland CTA 505 (60w/ch). I'm buying a new 007 (unless someone has a recent, 2015 and above, for sale).


----------



## wuwhere

Actually I have 3K budget`, a new 007 is 2.1K, the rest for a used Stax amp.


----------



## rgs9200m

I don't think 3K is enough for a decent Stax system even used unless you got some real bargains, like very used SR007 for $1000 and a KGSShv for $2k.
 Go for a Senn 650/600 system if you can't manage this.


----------



## wuwhere

rgs9200m said:


> I don't think 3K is enough for a decent Stax system even used unless you got some real bargains, like very used SR007 for $1000 and a KGSShv for $2k.
> Go for a Senn 650/600 system if you can't manage this.


 
  
 A brand new 007 is 2.1K, a used 717 is about 800-900. That's my budget this year until next when I have a new budget for 3K to 3.5K for a used Carbon.


----------



## Mars Bar

Assuming KGSSHV Carbon amplifiers from different builders don't all fall under the same price structures and there are many variables.
What are the greatest influences in cost?
For example, how would a basic build differ from the very expensive?


----------



## zolkis

I have made some comparative measurements of my early 007 Mk1, and late 007 Mk2, with stock pads, then stock pads without the spring, then modded 007 pads, then modded 009 pads. Some surprises there... I will publish some measurements later, but already I can say a few things:
 - both have similar FR (completely flat between 100-1000 Hz), both with a marked dip around 8 kHz, and some differences 
 - the 007 Mk1 goes deeper (less steep curve below 40 Hz), has less bass hump around 50-100 Hz, more treble around 10 kHz (reaches the level of 1 kHz), less dip around 8 kHz, and sounds more open
 - however, in stock form the 007 Mk2 sounds more forgiving with more music types, and bigger sound stage 
 - for both, removing the springs from the ear pads diminishes the 8 kHz dip (sound becomes more open), and makes deep bass better (less steep curve below 40 Hz), also less bass hump
 - the 007 Mk1 improves a lot with modded pads, especially with my modded 009 pads, but also with the modded 007 pads
 - the 007 Mk2 improves a lot when you take out the spring; after that, the modded 007 pads improve a bit more, not so much the measurements, but the openness and clarity of the sound
 - the 007 Mk2 does not benefit as much from the 009 pads as the Mk1, but subjectively it's still better
 - the modded 007 pads have the cleanest CSD
 - in the best form, the 007 Mk1 (with modded 009 pads) still goes deeper and sounds more open than the Mk2 in its best form (with modded 007 pads), however, I have not yet done the port mod to the 007 Mk2. Perhaps some other day - and then I will redo all measurements again.
  
 I recommend the 007 Mk2 owners to try taking out the spring (totally reversible), and report on the subjective changes .
  

 Edit: I have used the same pads on both headphones, to avoid differences between pads: the Mk2 pads for stock pads (on both), then my modded Mk2 pads on both, and my modded 009 pads on both. So there is no measurement of the 007 Mk1 with the brown pads and its own springs, since I was more interested on the differences between the drivers, and the effect of the mods. Where I refer to "stock" 007 Mk1, it means the 007 Mk1 with the Mk2 black ear pads and the Mk2 springs.


----------



## mulveling

mars bar said:


> Assuming KGSSHV Carbon amplifiers from different builders don't all fall under the same price structures and there are many variables.
> What are the greatest influences in cost?
> For example, how would a basic build differ from the very expensive?


 
  
 Most of the boards out there should be pretty high quality, so I'd say the main variables are: 

Builder margin
Casework cost
Volume control (e.g. Alps RK50 or stepped attenuator are premium, Alpha pot is cheap)
Other passive parts, premium vs. standard: capacitors, resistors, hookup wiring, etc
PSU, including the high-voltage and low voltage sections: Golden Reference on both sections is better (GR HV, GR LV), non-minified PSU is always better
  
 You will also see that sale price does not always correlate strictly to the quality of the above components, but then of course builder expertise is also a factor. Once you get a quality build with a nice full-size PSU and good volume control, I'd not worry too much about fancy casework or premium boutique parts. Mine has a full size PSU with the GR HV but not the GR LV (and I will probably upgrade this). Stepped attenuator volume. Decent but not boutique parts. Very handsome case, better than a Mjolnir, but not too expensive. Sounds notably better than any KGSShv (and I've heard 5 of those) and much better than a standard KGST. However, I do prefer the BHSE and DIY T2 over it.


----------



## joseph69

@zolkis
  
  
I thought the pads were attached by the springs?
 How do you attach the 007 pad without the springs?
  
 Thanks


----------



## 3X0

mulveling said:


> Sounds notably better than any KGSShv (and I've heard 5 of those)


 
 That's hardly a tall order though.


----------



## Tinkerer

joseph69 said:


> @zolkis
> 
> I thought the pads were attached by the springs?
> How do you attach the 007 pad without the springs?
> ...


 
 By just tucking in the outer edges. Just did it with mine since I needed to take off and clean my ear pads anyway.


----------



## joseph69

tinkerer said:


> By just tucking in the outer edges. Just did it with mine since I needed to take off and clean my ear pads anyway.


 
 Thank you.


----------



## mulveling

3x0 said:


> That's hardly a tall order though.


 
 I happen to think the top Staxes sound very good out of the right KGSShv, good enough to convince me they were completely superior to dynamics, good enough to satisfy as my main amp for over a year, and good enough to absolutely embarrass the stock Stax 727 and 323. Certainly, the more advanced amps provide a significant step up in performance -- and once you reach that level, you may find it impossible to go back. But also, while some of the KGSShv builds were not such a great match for either the 009 or 007 (or L700) -- each one sounded very very nice with at least ONE of these Stax headphones. I don't get the KGSShv hate.
  
 For example: 450V Sanyo (the warm one) great with 009, but a bit too much warmth with 007 Mk I. Mjolnir mini great with 007, but bright and fatiguing with 009. Old 500V onboard was great with either 009 or 007, and even very nice with old Stax Lambda Pro, but perhaps slightly disappointing with L700. There's a pretty diverse set of KGSShv builds that have come out over the years.
  
 Now by comparison, the BHSE, DIY T2 (more so) and (to a lesser degree) Carbon sound pretty amazing with anything you can stick into them. If you can afford them, go that direction. But the KGSShv offers a nice middle ground between stock Stax amps and the esoteric stuff.


----------



## zolkis

joseph69 said:


> @zolkis
> 
> I thought the pads were attached by the springs?
> How do you attach the 007 pad without the springs?




The springs are embedded between the pads and their inner flaps (mk1) or in the dust cloth between the cloth and the reinforcement ring (mk2). It makes assembling the pads harder, since first you insert the center of the spring into the rubber bearing in the middle of the driver, then paste the outer flap of the pad into the gap between the metallic plate and housing. Without the springs, you can just do the latter, which is much simpler. 
This time I have first inserted the dust cloth into the pads and assembled that way. It took less than a minute per side.


----------



## joseph69

zolkis said:


> The springs are embedded between the pads and their inner flaps (mk1) or in the dust cloth between the cloth and the reinforcement ring (mk2). It makes assembling the pads harder, since first you insert the center of the spring into the rubber bearing in the middle of the driver, then paste the outer flap of the pad into the gap between the metallic plate and housing. Without the springs, you can just do the latter, which is much simpler.
> This time I have first inserted the dust cloth into the pads and assembled that way. It took less than a minute per side.


 
 Very good.
 When I receive the BHSE I'll listen to the 007 and get aquatinted with its sound signature for a while before trying the port mod and removing the springs, thank you.


----------



## hardpike

rgs9200m said:


> I don't think 3K is enough for a decent Stax system even used unless you got some real bargains, like very used SR007 for $1000 and a KGSShv for $2k.
> Go for a Senn 650/600 system if you can't manage this.



I am not agree with this absolutist view.
My sr-207 and srd-x pro sounds to my ears better than 99 percent of the dynamic headphones. And very decent.
It cost me 400.
3k is more than enough i am sure the enjoy a hell of a system.


----------



## purk

hardpike said:


> I am not agree with this absolutist view.
> My sr-207 and srd-x pro sounds to my ears better than 99 percent of the dynamic headphones. And very decent.
> It cost me 400.
> 3k is more than enough i am sure the enjoy a hell of a system.


 
 That's why Stax is completely awesome.  But it can get a good bit better too.


----------



## hardpike

purk said:


> That's why Stax is completely awesome.  But it can get a good bit better too.



I am totally sure too


----------



## rgs9200m

I think I have the 450V KGSShv that mulveling heard, and respectfully disagree that there is too much warmth with the SR007 (current version, unmodded). It really, really is super-sensitive to the DAC, and can sound actually on the bright side with a particular DAC or recording, with a bit of glare in vocals if you are not careful. But excess warmth? I say no. It is a perfectly balanced sound, with fine transparency and extremely good musical and fast, natural, deep, detailed bass.
 It is sweet and revealing, a great combination.
 It goes into nirvana-world with DSD/SACD.
 There is something about Stax + DSD that is a perfect synergy made in heaven to my ears. I have not seen this mentioned much, but that's what I hear. DSD to me has the unique quality of avoiding digital glare while maintaining extreme resolution and sounding natural overall, and Stax seems to make the most of this.
 Even the SR009 does very well and avoids treble fatigue much of the time with DSD.


----------



## Michgelsen

wuwhere said:


> A brand new 007 is 2.1K, a used 717 is about 800-900. That's my budget this year until next when I have a new budget for 3K to 3.5K for a used Carbon.


 

 ​I said it before, and will repeat this here for you: the 007 and 717 is a very good combo. Don't feel bad about it because some folks here have their summit-fi amps. Of course I'm curious to hear a Carbon, but for me the 717 is more than good enough, and I have not felt the urge to upgrade ever since I got the 007+717 combo. You'll definitely hear what the 007 is about with the 717, and although I'm sure it can be even better, it's not as if it sounds like sh!t out of a 717.
  
 I think many of us here will recognize what happens when you go reading online about what you want to buy: it starts out reasonable, but you keep telling yourself that you need better, more expensive stuff, before you try the entry level stuff. Try the entry level 717 first (which is not so entry level at all in the world of Stax) and enjoy the music, before convincing yourself that a Carbon is the minimum you should go for.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

purk said:


> That's why Stax is completely awesome.  But it can get a good bit better too.


 
 Yes. Lambda NB + good-ol'-cheapo SRD-7 = best bargain evar.

 Ali


----------



## wuwhere

michgelsen said:


> ​I said it before, and will repeat this here for you: the 007 and 717 is a very good combo. Don't feel bad about it because some folks here have their summit-fi amps. Of course I'm curious to hear a Carbon, but for me the 717 is more than good enough, and I have not felt the urge to upgrade ever since I got the 007+717 combo. You'll definitely hear what the 007 is about with the 717, and although I'm sure it can be even better, it's not as if it sounds like sh!t out of a 717.
> 
> I think many of us here will recognize what happens when you go reading online about what you want to buy: it starts out reasonable, but you keep telling yourself that you need better, more expensive stuff, before you try the entry level stuff. Try the entry level 717 first (which is not so entry level at all in the world of Stax) and enjoy the music, before convincing yourself that a Carbon is the minimum you should go for.


 
  
 Thanks. I'm actually doing this right now, used+used (007+717). I think I just saved a lot of $$$. Thanks for all the assists guys.


----------



## 3X0

mulveling said:


> But the KGSShv offers a nice middle ground between stock Stax amps and the esoteric stuff.


 
 Eh, that's the point I disagree with.
  
 To clear the air: I enjoyed the Carbon and BHSE and love the DIY-T2.
  
 But I've never enjoyed the KGSSHV the five or so times I've heard one (not the same unit, either). I'd be downright offended at $2k+ and would rather spend less than half the money on a SRM-323 or used SRM-7X7.
  
 The HV may be technically more competent than the wimpy Stax amplifiers, but it's just never sounded pleasant to me.


----------



## mulveling

rgs9200m said:


> I think I have the 450V KGSShv that mulveling heard, and respectfully disagree that there is too much warmth with the SR007 (current version, unmodded). It really, really is super-sensitive to the DAC, and can sound actually on the bright side with a particular DAC or recording, with a bit of glare in vocals if you are not careful. But excess warmth? I say no. It is a perfectly balanced sound, with fine transparency and extremely good musical and fast, natural, deep, detailed bass.
> It is sweet and revealing, a great combination.
> It goes into nirvana-world with DSD/SACD.
> There is something about Stax + DSD that is a perfect synergy made in heaven to my ears. I have not seen this mentioned much, but that's what I hear. DSD to me has the unique quality of avoiding digital glare while maintaining extreme resolution and sounding natural overall, and Stax seems to make the most of this.
> Even the SR009 does very well and avoids treble fatigue much of the time with DSD.


 
 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you have a Mjolnir prototype mini that I've used. That unit is 400V, and isn't so warm like my Sanyo 450V (same with astrostar's old 450V unit). Your unit does match fairly well with either 007 or 009 -- because it is indeed pretty neutral, and not bright like the newer minis (though the tradeoff is that the newer minis are slightly more detailed and dynamic). None of the minis are like a Sanyo 450V -- that amp really is surprisingly warm, and it's easy to hear. Doesn't sound like "tubes" though, it's just warm toned (but pretty good) SS. Also my 007 is a Mk I, which is almost certainly warmer and darker than the current version -- that's what makes it all a bit much with my 450V Sanyo. 
  
 Living near Purk, I've heard too many KGSShv


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Sigma Pro + BHSE I'm listening to are pretty darn good eventually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## astrostar59

3x0 said:


> Eh, that's the point I disagree with.
> 
> To clear the air: I enjoyed the Carbon and BHSE and love the DIY-T2.
> 
> ...


 

 Rubbish. What DAC were you using, which KGSShv was it (mini?). My 2 x KGSShv's Sanyo were epic, really a great amp. I sold it to get a Carbon and the guys who bought them also raved about the sound. I think you are way off, sorry.


----------



## comzee

astrostar59 said:


> Rubbish. What DAC were you using, which KGSShv was it (mini?). My 2 x KGSShv's Sanyo were epic, really a great amp. I sold it to get a Carbon and the guys who bought them also raved about the sound. I think you are way off, sorry.


 
 I was not impressed with the Carbon myself.
 It was either the 009 was subpar, or the Carbon was, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Is this that hard to understand one could like things otherwise ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ali


----------



## astrostar59

ali-pacha said:


> Is this that hard to understand one could like things otherwise ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, there are always detractors, it's life. I heard the Abyss and the HD800s and hated them. But I don't go on about it, as don't care TBH.
  
 The Carbon and 009s with a good DAC are the single best system I have ever heard (IMO).


----------



## CalvinW

Haha, totally agree! I don't know why some people are so easily triggered.


ali-pacha said:


> Is this that hard to understand one could like things otherwise ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rgs9200m

mulveling said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you have a Mjolnir prototype mini that I've used. That unit is 400V, and isn't so warm like my Sanyo 450V (same with astrostar's old 450V unit).
> Living near Purk, I've heard too many KGSShv


 
 OK, sorry, yes, you are right so I sit corrected. I mis-remembered which type my amp is. Thank you for clearing that up, and thanks to Purk again too. 
 By the way, just to add my 2 cents to this interesting debate, I also tried out the Abyss for couple of years, decided it was not my cup of tea, then sold it and moved back to my Staxes.
 (I also gave up on the HD800 too at this time after about 5 years with it.)
 I guess that's my 4 cents worth now.


----------



## wuwhere

I wonder if there are KGSSHVs at RMAF CanJam.


----------



## 3X0

comzee said:


> I was not impressed with the Carbon myself.
> It was either the 009 was subpar, or the Carbon was, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


 
 IME it may actually be the 009. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Carbon sounded pretty good with the Omega.
  
 FWIW though that Carbon has already changed hands twice now (after myself) and is now being offered to a fifth owner. This is within the span of two months...
  
 I believe the last experience I had with a full-size KGSSHV was following a Yggdrasil and paired with the SR-009. A supremely underwhelming experience -- dry and unengaging with an artificial/plasticky quality to the treble, MIA sub-bass and low meaningful resolution (SR-009 seems to trade away microdetail for macrodetail/hyperclarity).
  
 I'm not going to advocate against buying a KGSSHV, but I am absolutely going to advocate against buying one blind. Definitely a try-before-you-buy product which is a bit unfortunate given the DIY nature and variation in builds. DIYing a unit for oneself is a different story and probably quite rewarding.


----------



## Rossliew

Anyone know if the current batch of Mjolnir mini Sanyo kgsshv is warm sounding?


----------



## purk

rgs9200m said:


> OK, sorry, yes, you are right so I sit corrected. I mis-remembered which type my amp is. Thank you for clearing that up, and thanks to Purk again too.
> By the way, just to add my 2 cents to this interesting debate, I also tried out the Abyss for couple of years, decided it was not my cup of tea, then sold it and moved back to my Staxes.
> (I also gave up on the HD800 too at this time after about 5 years with it.)
> I guess that's my 4 cents worth now.


 
 More cents than ever!  Glad that you are still enjoying that amp.  It is definitely sound a bit warmer than the KGSSHV tiny Mini that is selling right now and a better match to the SR009 IMO.


----------



## JustinBieber

Anyone know if I need a balanced DAC or can I use rca/3.5mm to XLR adapters for a KGSSHV Carbon without diminishing sound quality? Going to audition and possibly buy one this weekend. Cant find any info on this.


----------



## purk

justinbieber said:


> Anyone know if I need a balanced DAC or can I use rca/3.5mm to XLR adapters for a KGSSHV Carbon without diminishing sound quality? Going to audition and possibly buy one this weekend. Cant find any info on this.


 
 You should be able to do that without a problem.  However, DAC designers often pay more attention to a balanced output than single-end output hence balance signal maybe preferable.  If your DAC is only SE out only, then it should not be of any issue.


----------



## JustinBieber

Thanks. It's an AMB y2 so SE only. Maybe next thing to upgrade is the DAC but the new amp is going go be the biggest difference... I currently use a 323s for my SR009.


----------



## Rossliew

Apologies if I'm asking in the wrong forum but can anyone share the complete list of parts (together with the specific identification /part number) required to build a Carbon and where I could source those parts? Would be most appreciated. Thanks


----------



## wuwhere

rossliew said:


> Apologies if I'm asking in the wrong forum but can anyone share the complete list of parts (together with the specific identification /part number) required to build a Carbon and where I could source those parts? Would be most appreciated. Thanks


 
  
 Search for "kgsshv carbon pcb".


----------



## astrostar59

rossliew said:


> Apologies if I'm asking in the wrong forum but can anyone share the complete list of parts (together with the specific identification /part number) required to build a Carbon and where I could source those parts? Would be most appreciated. Thanks


 

 Over at the other place. it's head but use 'case' instead of fi. Look for the Amps - DIY section, then KGSShv Carbon. 
  
 Best to chat to some of those guys, locate someone doing a PCB group buy, then ask for the BOM and advice as you go.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## Rossliew

wuwhere said:


> Search for "kgsshv carbon pcb".


 
  
 Thanks


astrostar59 said:


> Over at the other place. it's head but use 'case' instead of fi. Look for the Amps - DIY section, then KGSShv Carbon.
> 
> Best to chat to some of those guys, locate someone doing a PCB group buy, then ask for the BOM and advice as you go.
> 
> Good luck.


 
  
 Thanks. Have been lurking there on and off. Having read some of the posts on one of the build threads, i think the build is not one for the faint hearted nor one without DIY build experience..sad to say, those builders here are totally into dynamic amps and have not worked on any estat amp before. 
  
 Looks like i'll fair better asking someone on here to help me build one instead..


----------



## wuwhere

rossliew said:


> Thanks
> 
> Thanks. Have been lurking there on and off. Having read some of the posts on one of the build threads, i think the build is not one for the faint hearted nor one without DIY build experience..sad to say, those builders here are totally into dynamic amps and have not worked on any estat amp before.
> 
> Looks like i'll fair better asking someone on here to help me build one instead..


 
  
 How would you know your build sounds good to you? I bet there would be slight differences in SQ.


----------



## Rossliew

wuwhere said:


> How would you know your build sounds good to you? I bet there would be slight differences in SQ.


 

 I most definitely do not have the skills to build one myself hence was looking around the local diy community for help but none have attempted an estat amp build before. I don't know which will sound good or better but its a risk I'm willing to take.


----------



## wuwhere

rossliew said:


> I most definitely do not have the skills to build one myself hence was looking around the local diy community for help but none have attempted an estat amp build before. I don't know which will sound good or better but its a risk I'm willing to take.


 
  
 It would be nice if a list of builders can be compiled who would build one for you for a fee. But this is dangerous too, he may just run with your money. Of course you can always buy from Mjolnir, very expensive. If I can afford that I might as well buy a BHSE. Just a long wait though.


----------



## JimL11

hardpike said:


> I am not agree with this absolutist view.
> My sr-207 and srd-x pro sounds to my ears better than 99 percent of the dynamic headphones. And very decent.
> It cost me 400.
> 3k is more than enough i am sure the enjoy a hell of a system.


 

 Just to revisit this for a bit.  Another option is to buy used.  For example, a Lambda Nova Signature (LNS) with a used SRM-T1 should cost $1000 or less and sounds very, very good.  When the LNS originally came out, right after the original Omega, a Stereophile review said it sounded very close to the Omega, and the T1 has enough oomph to drive the LNS.  Do need to replace the electrolytic caps in the T1 as they are likely at the end of their working life.  I am working on a mod for the T1 which should make it capable of driving the 007 much better.


----------



## Rossliew

wuwhere said:


> It would be nice if a list of builders can be compiled who would build one for you for a fee. But this is dangerous too, he may just run with your money. Of course you can always buy from Mjolnir, very expensive. If I can afford that I might as well buy a BHSE. Just a long wait though.


 

 Yes, would be good to know of builders who have the time to build one for a fee. Well, Mjolnir's Carbon still costs less than a BHSE and you need to take into consideration tube rolling costs as well...but you can't deny the good looks of the BHSE


----------



## wuwhere

rossliew said:


> Yes, would be good to know of builders who have the time to build one for a fee. Well, Mjolnir's Carbon still costs less than a BHSE and you need to take into consideration tube rolling costs as well...but you can't deny the good looks of the BHSE


 
  
 Some say BHSE sounds better (??) overall than Carbon. Carbon SQ varies with build. Plus BHSE retains its value. And I've never seen a late model BHSE in the FS here.


----------



## wuwhere

BHSE is amazing. Its very expensive, people pay upfront (down payment) for one and wait for months. The model name has not changed in years. I'm sure there are some changes internally, some parts become unavailable eventually. So the replacement part has to be qualified.


----------



## Rossliew

BHSE looks great, am sure holds its value well but it sounds bright with an SR009..perhaps a much better match with the 007


----------



## wuwhere

I believe that's why they roll the tubes. The tubes are in the input stage. You can always eq which I don't really like.


----------



## joseph69

wuwhere said:


> I believe that's why they roll the tubes. The tubes are in the input stage. You can always eq which I don't really like.


 
 Correct me if I'm wrong, but the tubes are the output stage.


----------



## wuwhere

joseph69 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the tubes are the output stage.


 
  
 You're right, my bad, its in the output stage.


----------



## bearFNF

Whether BHSE is bright or not is an opinion of some but not all. I do not agree with that opinion because I don't find it bright with my 009s. YMMV IMO etc... oh and the wait can be years...


----------



## bmichels

bearfnf said:


> Whether BHSE is bright or not is an opinion of some but not all. I do not agree with that opinion because* I don't find it bright with my 009s. ...*


 
  
 Do you use the stock tubes ?   what DAC are you using with the BHSE ?


----------



## bearFNF

I used the stock tubes for a while at the very beginning but found the bass was a little bit light. I am currently using the Shuguang treasures. The DAC I'm using is a Yggdrasil. My Blue Hawaii also has a normal bias socket in it along with the pro bias.


----------



## bmichels

bearfnf said:


> I used the stock tubes for a while at the very beginning but found the bass was a little bit light. I am currently using the Shuguang treasures. The DAC I'm using is a Yggdrasil. My Blue Hawaii also has a normal bias socket in it along with the pro bias.


 
  
 thanks.  
  
 - May be the Shuguang treasures helps to make sure the BHSE never sound bright ?


----------



## bearFNF

bmichels said:


> thanks.
> 
> - May be the Shuguang treasures helps to make sure the BHSE never sound bright ?


Even with the stock tubes I never found it too bright. I listened to them for quite a while before I switched to the treasures.


----------



## mulveling

The BHSE is absolutely not bright with 009, yggy, and my British Mullard xf3 tubes - and that's with silver interconnects. In fact if anything it's a bit on the warm side, and some days I prefer the slightly more aggressive Holland xf5. I experienced that too back when I was using el34 on speakers - those Brit tubes are super warm, and sound great in a system that would otherwise be slightly bright.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

bearfnf said:


> I used the stock tubes for a while at the very beginning but found the bass was a little bit light. I am currently using the Shuguang treasures. The DAC I'm using is a Yggdrasil. My Blue Hawaii also has a normal bias socket in it along with the pro bias.


 
 Yggy + Shuguang treasure + Pro/NB sockets. You have good tastes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Ali


----------



## astrostar59

bearfnf said:


> I used the stock tubes for a while at the very beginning but found the bass was a little bit light. I am currently using the Shuguang treasures. The DAC I'm using is a Yggdrasil. My Blue Hawaii also has a normal bias socket in it along with the pro bias.


 

 How you feeding the Yggy? It's USB input is not the best, but can sound very different on the other inputs I have read (folk who own it).
  
 The BHSE has such transparency it comes at a price, as does the Carbon IMO with the 009s. But care in the other bits of the system (DAC, server, cables, USB gizmo's etc) and you can have a system IMO that is right up there. My latest 'gizmo' is drop USB and go Ethernet. No idea till next week if it is better, we shall see.....
  
*BTW has anyone heard the HE-1 directly to the BHSE and 009s yet? I would love to know where they stand.*


----------



## bearFNF

I'm feeding it with the optical out of my oppo 103. I also occasionally hook up USB from my laptop but mostly the oppo.


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> How you feeding the Yggy? It's USB input is not the best, but can sound very different on the other inputs I have read (folk who own it).
> 
> The BHSE has such transparency it comes at a price, as does the Carbon IMO with the 009s. But care in the other bits of the system (DAC, server, cables, USB gizmo's etc) and you can have a system IMO that is right up there. My latest 'gizmo' is drop USB and go Ethernet. No idea till next week if it is better, we shall see.....
> 
> *BTW has anyone heard the HE-1 directly to the BHSE and 009s yet? I would love to know where they stand.*


 
 I used the Mjolnir KGST with the 009 via ethernet and found it very warm.
 I'll hear how the BHSE sound via ethernet when I receive it.


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> I used the Mjolnir KGST with the 009 via ethernet and found it very warm.
> I'll hear how the BHSE sound via ethernet when I receive it.


 

 Interesting. How you doing that? Is it with your PS Audio gear?
  
 My system will be silly, Rednet 3 (modern ethernet solution) with 80's tech tubed R-2R DAC. Mix and match, old and modern....


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. How you doing that? Is it with your PS Audio gear?
> 
> My system will be silly, Rednet 3 (modern ethernet solution) with 80's tech tubed R-2R DAC. Mix and match, old and modern....


 
 Yes, with the PWD-ll/Bridge-ll with Jriver MC21.


----------



## mulveling

jiml11 said:


> Just to revisit this for a bit.  Another option is to buy used.  For example, a Lambda Nova Signature (LNS) with a used SRM-T1 should cost $1000 or less and sounds very, very good.  When the LNS originally came out, right after the original Omega, a Stereophile review said it sounded very close to the Omega, and the T1 has enough oomph to drive the LNS.  Do need to replace the electrolytic caps in the T1 as they are likely at the end of their working life.  I am working on a mod for the T1 which should make it capable of driving the 007 much better.


 
 This is a very good point. If I lost everything tomorrow, and was given a very modest budget for a Stax headphone/amp setup (say $2K, which is modest for a Stax setup), then I'd be looking hard at the old Lambda models and a tube amp (Stax even) to pair with. I really enjoyed the Lambda Pro when I had it (borrowed Purk's), and I also liked aspects of the Lambda Signature -- though in the end it was too bright for me. I really like the Lambda presentation overall, love the new L700, and they definitely seem to "scale down" better than their Omega relatives. But I do tend to prefer the Lambdas with tubes (though the Lambda Pro did pretty great on a neutral-ish 500V KGSShv).


----------



## LaCuffia

I have the 404LE with the T1 and it sounds great. I have no knowledge about caps or tubes though. I bought the T1 on eBay and it seems to work fine. How would I know if the tubes are impacting the sound? Is there a particular sign to look out for?


----------



## Blackmore

As long as you dont hear anything that disturb the sound, such as hum, noise, crackling or dead channel, you are fine. Some tubes can be weak, but still perform fine and when you buy from the honest person, he will tell you how much hours tubes had, so you can get the idea. On the other hand, you never know for sure, as tubes can give you the feeling of working forever or just dead on you within a month or even less. With Stax amps is very important that tubes are biased perfectly, because this can have influence on the rest of the amp, which can cause damage on some parts.
  
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


lacuffia said:


> I have the 404LE with the T1 and it sounds great. I have no knowledge about caps or tubes though. I bought the T1 on eBay and it seems to work fine. How would I know if the tubes are impacting the sound? Is there a particular sign to look out for?


----------



## Pokemonn

astrostar59 said:


> *BTW has anyone heard the HE-1 directly to the BHSE and 009s yet? I would love to know where they stand.*


 
 I have once auditioned HE-1 at Tokyo headphone festival.
 Axel Grell of senn answered the question for Japanese audiophile magazine interview(i lost memory which magazine it was, too bad we can't google kindle/paper magazines..)
 He said senn did tuned HE-1 like electrostatic version of HD650(not HD600 nor HD800) yes it sounds like that. he-1 sounds a tad veiled treble and non-organic unlike HD650. but it maybe due to old esoteric CDP.
 I haven't heard internal DAC of HE-1 yet..


----------



## mulveling

pokemonn said:


> I have once auditioned HE-1 at Tokyo headphone festival.
> Axel Grell of senn answered the question for Japanese audiophile magazine interview(i lost memory which magazine it was, too bad we can't google kindle/paper magazines..)
> He said senn did tuned HE-1 like electrostatic version of HD650(not HD600 nor HD800) yes it sounds like that. he-1 sounds a tad veiled treble and non-organic.but it maybe due to old esoteric CDP.
> I haven't heard internal DAC of HE-1 yet..


 
 If they actually tuned the HE-1 to the HD650, then that's the best decision they could have made. HD600 is good, but the HD650 is better. And the HD800 sounds like an abomination to my ears (only sounds good on some very exotic amps). The old he90 is more akin to an electrostatic HD600, to my ears (and sounds amazing out of a DIY T2, but that amp is pure magic). I've always really enjoyed the HD650, but it doesn't satisfy on the all-out-assault-fi front. A "better HD650" would have a lot of value.


----------



## Pokemonn

mulveling said:


> If they actually tuned the HE-1 to the HD650, then that's the best decision they could have made. HD600 is good, but the HD650 is better. And the HD800 sounds like an abomination to my ears (only sounds good on some very exotic amps). The old he90 is more akin to an electrostatic HD600, to my ears (and sounds amazing out of a DIY T2, but that amp is pure magic). I've always really enjoyed the HD650, but it doesn't satisfy on the all-out-assault-fi front. A "better HD650" would have a lot of value.


 

 yeah I agree with you. I also like HD650. but a tad slightly I prefer HD600 and SR-L700 out of cheap stax tube amps.


----------



## bmichels

mulveling said:


> The BHSE is absolutely not bright with 009, yggy, and my British Mullard xf3 tubes - and that's with silver interconnects. In fact if anything it's a bit on the warm side, and some days I prefer the slightly more aggressive Holland xf5. I experienced that too back when I was using el34 on speakers - those Brit tubes are super warm, and sound great in a system that would otherwise be slightly bright.


 
  
 Interesting...   where did you purchase your British Mullard xf3 tubes ? 
  
 could you post pictures of your British Mullard xf3 tubes  and of your Holland xf5 so that we can see the didderence ?
  
 thanks in advance


----------



## JimL11

lacuffia said:


> I have the 404LE with the T1 and it sounds great. I have no knowledge about caps or tubes though. I bought the T1 on eBay and it seems to work fine. How would I know if the tubes are impacting the sound? Is there a particular sign to look out for?


 

 So, because the T1 was made between 1987 and 1993, that means it is over 20 years old.  The issue is that electrolytic power supply caps can deteriorate and become unreliable in that period of time, even if the amp was just sitting on the shelf.  Therefore it is a very good idea to either replace the caps yourself (there are 10 of them), or have an electronic tech replace them.  Electrolytic caps have gotten smaller since the T1 was built, and so you can replace them with higher value caps (must be the same rated voltage or higher), which will actually improve the power supply.  After the caps are replaced, you can also check that the output voltages are close to zero and adjust as needed.  If you do a search on Head-Fi you'll find a procedure to adjust the output voltages.  Again, if you don't want to do it, have a technician do it for you.


----------



## mulveling

bmichels said:


> Interesting...   where did you purchase your British Mullard xf3 tubes ?
> 
> could you post pictures of your British Mullard xf3 tubes  and of your Holland xf5 so that we can see the didderence ?
> 
> thanks in advance


 

 I wouldn't get too hung up over the specific xf # versions within one make. Years ago when I tried British xf2 (double-O), xf3 and xf4 - they all sounded _very_ close to each other. I got the xf3 for BHSE simply because they're cheaper and much easier to find with NOS-like test readings, tight pair/quad matching, and like-new getter flashings verses the older (and more sought after) xf2. Plus I think the xf3 look cool with the stapled plates and huge grid post heat sinks, and again it's a lot easier to find clean good looking tubes with crisp labels in an xf3/4 (you have a _beautiful_ BHSE, so why not use good looking tubes?). Cosmetics aside, I wouldn't buy an EL34 tube with a worn getter -- that clearly indicates LOTS of use, regardless of test readings. 
  
 When I popped these xf3 tubes in - yep, sounds exactly like what I expect from a Mullard EL34. While the Mullard xf1 and metal-base Holland versions are almost certainly superior (based on reports), I haven't heard them and they're beyond my pain threshold to collect in muliple matched pairs with spares.
  
 As for the Hollands -- I've heard an xf5 quad and a mixed xf4/xf5 quad; they sounded the same so I wouldn't stress the xf4/5 difference there. Both the Hollands and Mullards are great sounding tubes; choose Mullard if you want that extra bit of warmth. But Purk prefers the Hollands, and I see why. I'm as of yet undecided between the two. Also tried various Russian EL34 back in the day (Winged-C, Svetlana, Electro Harmonix EL34 and fat-bottle 6CA7), and based on that experience I wouldn't even bother popping them into my BHSE. The new-sensor variants listed above are good for use in warm/syrupy amps (bright, with various nasties in treble), and the winged-C were almost as warm as Mullards but just sounded plastic and artificial somehow. 
  
 I've bought most of my EL34 from tubeworld express, and have been consistently very happy with the quality of tubes purchased there. He's more diligent that other tube vendors, and seeing the actual tubes you will receive is great (I've received loose-pin tubes, "matched" pairs that are CLEARLY different makes, tubes with hardly any getter left, different tube version than advertised, etc from other vendors).
  
 Here's a British Mullard xf3 (early 1970's) - huge cool-looking fins on the copper grid posts, single-O getter, stapled plates, black base, glass can have a slight point on top: 

  
 And here is a Holland xf5 (1962) - Welded plates, double-D getter, smaller rectangular fins on grid posts, brown base, very smooth and perfect glass tops:

  
 Just buy some nice vintage tubes man, and don't stress so much about choosing the holy grail tube before you've heard any of this stuff. I'm sure you'll be happy with any decent Mullard or Holland set with decent pair matching.


----------



## Jon L

mulveling said:


> I wouldn't get too hung up over the specific xf # versions within one make. Years ago when I tried British xf2 (double-O), xf3 and xf4 - they all sounded _very_ close to each other. I got the xf3 for BHSE simply because they're cheaper and much easier to find with NOS-like test readings, tight pair/quad matching, and like-new getter flashings verses the older (and more sought after) xf2. Plus I think the xf3 look cool with the stapled plates and huge grid post heat sinks, and again it's a lot easier to find clean good looking tubes with crisp labels in an xf3/4 (you have a _beautiful_ BHSE, so why not use good looking tubes?). Cosmetics aside, I wouldn't buy an EL34 tube with a worn getter -- that clearly indicates LOTS of use, regardless of test readings.
> 
> When I popped these xf3 tubes in - yep, sounds exactly like what I expect from a Mullard EL34. While the Mullard xf1 and metal-base Holland versions are almost certainly superior (based on reports), I haven't heard them and they're beyond my pain threshold to collect in muliple matched pairs with spares.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow, an unusually sane and helpful post for an audio forum


----------



## bmichels

Thanks a LOT mulveling for all those infos & pictures. I will try the British Mullard xf3. I may also investigate some Siemens that Dan from Mr Speakers recommended me.


----------



## hardpike

mulveling said:


> I wouldn't get too hung up over the specific xf # versions within one make. Years ago when I tried British xf2 (double-O), xf3 and xf4 - they all sounded _very_ close to each other. I got the xf3 for BHSE simply because they're cheaper and much easier to find with NOS-like test readings, tight pair/quad matching, and like-new getter flashings verses the older (and more sought after) xf2. Plus I think the xf3 look cool with the stapled plates and huge grid post heat sinks, and again it's a lot easier to find clean good looking tubes with crisp labels in an xf3/4 (you have a _beautiful_ BHSE, so why not use good looking tubes?). Cosmetics aside, I wouldn't buy an EL34 tube with a worn getter -- that clearly indicates LOTS of use, regardless of test readings.
> 
> When I popped these xf3 tubes in - yep, sounds exactly like what I expect from a Mullard EL34. While the Mullard xf1 and metal-base Holland versions are almost certainly superior (based on reports), I haven't heard them and they're beyond my pain threshold to collect in muliple matched pairs with spares.
> 
> ...



Indeed a great post
Many thanks


----------



## wuwhere

I like tubes. Gotta save up for one like this.


----------



## yates7592

bmichels said:


> Thanks a LOT mulveling for all those infos & pictures. I will try the British Mullard xf3. I may also investigate some Siemens that Dan from Mr Speakers recommended me.




I just wondered, you only had the BHSE for a few weeks. What don't you like that makes you want to roll tubes so soon?


----------



## paulchiu

wuwhere said:


> I like tubes. Gotta save up for one like this.


 
  
 Very nice.  Another builder's implementation of Dr. Kevin Gilmore design.  Most widely known certainly is Headamp, built and perfected by Justin Wilson.  This one in the picture looks classic with the KGSSHV stock casing,  Have you heard it?
  
 Paul


----------



## joseph69

> And here is a Holland xf5 (1962) - Welded plates, double-D getter, smaller rectangular fins on grid posts, brown base, very smooth and perfect glass tops:


 
 @mulveling
 I picked up the same tubes (Amperex Bugle Boys) for my BHSE.


----------



## wuwhere

paulchiu said:


> Very nice.  Another builder's implementation of Dr. Kevin Gilmore design.  Most widely known certainly is Headamp, built and perfected by Justin Wilson.  This one in the picture looks classic with the KGSSHV stock casing,  Have you heard it?
> 
> Paul


 
  
 Nope. Saw it for sale _*here. *_ I don't have $4.7k...yet.


----------



## paulchiu

wuwhere said:


> Nope. Saw it for sale _*here. *_ I don't have $4.7k...yet.


 
  
 Ah, that makes sense.  The casing is of an older iteration.  Justin's recent BHSE has a  slimmer profile.
 You know you can built one youself and save a bunch, if you have the time.
  
 Paul


----------



## wuwhere

paulchiu said:


> Ah, that makes sense.  The casing is of an older iteration.  Justin's recent BHSE has a  slimmer profile.
> You know you can built one youself and save a bunch, if you have the time.
> 
> Paul


 
  
 Time plus equipment including test equipment. Buying from a reputable manufacturer is expensive. It should keep its value specially if bought used, which I plan to do.


----------



## purk

wuwhere said:


> Time plus equipment including test equipment. Buying from a reputable manufacturer is expensive. It should keep its value specially if bought used, which I plan to do.


 
 When you have the BHSE, you have that sense of pride of owning a work of art.  The build quality and craftsmanship on the BHSE is just really second to none.  I do miss it everyday but I can survive by listening to the T2 & Carbon.


----------



## bmichels

purk said:


> When you have the BHSE, you have that sense of pride of owning a work of art....


 
  
 Agree at 200%   it is sooo good looking glowing in the dark of my listening room.  
  
 I am thinking to add a Veracity DAC that will aestically match it perfectly (But... I need to find a way listen to the combo before. Afterward, SQ is ALSO important 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
  

  

  
*The idea behind those dacs is great.  We just need to verify how this translate in term of sound quality :*
  

 This is a dual DAC where the PCM is decoded by separate converters and stand-alone DSD playback is fulfilled without digital processing. These two DACs through direct connection_ _share_ _only the valve output stage on a 'one-at-a-time' basis. 

 DAC auto switches with incoming signal file format- directing DSD to DSD reconstruction filter or PCM to parallel PCM only DAC: This means that you can play your library of different format tracks in their native form, seamlessly and without software format processing, when you feel to do so. This dual DAC will adapt and switch to dedicated for PCM engine or DSD filter playback itself (in milliseconds) using analog signal relays. Very different approach when compared to `all-in-one`ΔΣ chips with transistor logic switching or devices which auto-convert music files from one format to another.

 A non-oversampling mode was designed to bring remarkable clarity and emotion to CD recordings and 16 bit/44.1kHz music files. This design effort was made to reveal full music potential of Red Book recordings.

 The DAC is upsampling free: i.e. the original sample rate of source PCM recording will not be changed (up-sampled). 

 Multibit hybrid DACs - instead of plain delta sigma or switched resistors a hybrid method has been chosen to bring the most realistic dynamics and boost low-level performance- PCM D/A conversion uses dual (for Mystra) and quad mono (for Chrysalis) architecture


----------



## thinker

-


----------



## jibzilla

wuwhere said:


> Nope. Saw it for sale _*here. *_ I don't have $4.7k...yet.


 
  
 My kgsshv from the same builder can be found for $2500ish used and is awesome. I paid $3k and still enjoy it allot. Def. a step up on my 727ii.
  
 I just wish he would offer up more than one input on his amps though. Although I do usually enjoy dynamic a bit more with my records it would be nice to listen to my kp-9010 through my 007mk1.
  
 Considering my stat setup is dac only and the bhse is a hefty $6-7k to get the inputs and outputs I need I really see no reason to go any higher than the kgsshv. Probably will not ever happen but maybe when I have a five figure dac or TT.


----------



## TheAttorney

I've had my first play with EQing my SR-009's:
  
 Based on an assumption that a product aimed for the professional market would sound better and be more versatile than the freebie EQ bundled with my JRiver MC20, I went for a trial version of DMG's entry level EQuick that plugged into my JRMC. Took a bit of getting used to, but after a while, it was fun to drag the Frequency Response curve around with a mouse, so I could quickly try all sorts of strange shapes, but generally I agreed with zolkis' suggestions.
  
 So, did EQ transform my 009 from "almost perfect" to "perfect"?
  
 Erm, not really. The EQ part did its job to change the tonal character in any which way you could possibly want.
 You want the 009's to sound soft, warm and cuddly? Easily done.
  
 But there was a big but: A significant loss of openness and transparency. I used Eva Cassidy's "Live from Blues Alley" as an example of female voice recorded with OTT presence and reverb. With EQ, I could soften that down, but with a loss of the fine detail that made the performance less engaging. Switching off EQ immediately brought back the life and soul of the performance. From "adequate recording" to "you are there". Just to show that it wasn't simply a result of the tonal differences I produced a very nearly flat FR line, with just the tiniest changes, and this had the same problem.
  
 This is by no means conclusive. On the appropriate forums, there's talk of Linear Phase, Latency, FIRs, and all sorts of parameters that may improve the SQ of equalizers. And it could be that the default values for EQuick were not the best for SQ. But that's too much faff for me. My favourite control on a hifi system is the button labelled "Just make it work".
  
 So,if EQ is the answer to all headphone problems, then I've grown a bit cool on pursuing that path. Not given up entirely, just realising that, like hifi in general, you have to work at it to get the best out of it. Not like pressing a button.


----------



## astrostar59

Good post TheAttorney. I also tried many of the Apple AU filters on my Mac Mini that can be used inside of Audirvana+.
  
 I think unless it is a dead subtle change you are setting it completely wrecks the sound. i.e. I believe it is resampling the data.
  
 For example I can open up a music file in Amadius (sound software) on my Mac, and view the wave forms. Then apply the very same AU filters. On resaving that music file, the sound wave patterns change. This is to me showing the data is being *resampled outright to a completely new set of samples*. Bit like taking a copy of a photo on a photocopier a second or third time, it gets more and more rough.
  
 Only reducing the level or increasing the level of the entire waveform does it not appear to resample the data, though by increasing the level will invariably hit the buffers at 0dB and square of the wave form (clip).
  
 So IMO EQ is best done in the analogue domain aka old school, on a very transparent EQ amp/device/mixer. There are ones available for pro use. I doubt any consumer EQ gear will be good enough to not loose quality as another component in the chain.
  
 One AU filters I found what does work with minimal negatives is the *high shelf filter*. This basically reduces the treble level enmass to a subtle curve (pre-set). That appears to have no obvious crushing of the dynamics or soundstage. I use this set to *-3dB at 15khz on the 009s*, but have my speakers set to flat (no EQ). I do believe the 009s have roughly 3-4dB boost at 15khz and above. Doesn't sound much but in listening it does increase the treble emphasis and energy noticeably. Hence IMO the challenge with many DACs and the 009s.


----------



## AnakChan

From @ifi-Audio's tweet :-
  

  
 Looks like we're getting more amp options in the electrostat world.


----------



## astrostar59

anakchan said:


> From @ifi-Audio's tweet :-
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like we're getting more amp options in the electrostat world.


 
 Oh my, wonder how long before it gets dissected? Hard hats everyone.


----------



## zolkis

"Optional Electrostatic Headphone Energiser in separate Box will be introduced, 1,700V Peak-Peak maximum output, Bias selectable for Stax HiFi/Pro, Sennheiser and others, Output Levels selectable, 3 * Stax Pro & HiFi Sockets fitted."
http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-desktop-line-discussion-thread/510#post_11469084


----------



## AnakChan

zolkis said:


> "Optional Electrostatic Headphone Energiser in separate Box will be introduced, 1,700V Peak-Peak maximum output, Bias selectable for Stax HiFi/Pro, Sennheiser and others, Output Levels selectable, 3 * Stax Pro & HiFi Sockets fitted."
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-desktop-line-discussion-thread/510#post_11469084


 
  
 Cheers....I see, it's an energiser. Thx for the link.


----------



## wuwhere

A review https://headmania.org/2016/09/27/ifi-pro-ican-headphone-amplifier-review/
  
 Here's another review https://www.samma3a.com/en/reviews/ifi-audio/pro-ican-desktop-headphones-amplifier-241.html
  
 "The iCan has a special power supply unit that is of the ultra low noise variant. You can’t fault ifi on their power supplies, they are always amazingly clean. Another add-on part for this amplifier will be the Electrostatic Headphone Energizer. A separate box that can be connected to the Pro iCan that delivers up to 1,700V Peak - with Bias selectable for Stax, HiFi/Pro, Sennheiser and other manufacturers. It’s not yet clear when it’s coming."


----------



## Tinkerer

So is the preview pic of the amp upside down or is the stax jack mounted upside down?


----------



## wuwhere

It will be in 2016 RMAF.
  
 https://www.facebook.com/iFiAudio/photos/a.461191017249979.95398.460963790606035/1127334873968920/?type=3&theater
  
 Hope I can make it there with my 007.


----------



## HemiSam

wuwhere said:


> Some say BHSE sounds better (??) overall than Carbon. Carbon SQ varies with build. Plus BHSE retains its value. And I've never seen a late model BHSE in the FS here.


 
  
 This is not correct.  BHSE's go for sale periodically and prices have been dropping since the release of the Carbon.  It's like most any other product when new technology enters the market.
  
 HS


----------



## wuwhere

hemisam said:


> This is not correct.  BHSE's go for sale periodically and prices have been dropping since the release of the Carbon.  It's like most any other product when new technology enters the market.
> 
> HS


 
  
 I did a search in FS. So far this year only, I've seen 4? Still very expensive, about 5K used? I'm saving up for a Mjolnir KGSSHV Carbon.


----------



## HemiSam

wuwhere said:


> I did a search in FS. So far this year only, I've seen 4? Still very expensive, about 5K used? I'm saving up for a Mjolnir KGSSHV Carbon.


 
  
 They're not inexpensive to start with and that's the asking price.  The price has been dropping as the Carbon is increasing in popularity.  I can certainly understand a BHSE not being in someone's price range, but if you look around they are popping up.  And, BTW, this isn't the only site things are posted for sale...
  
 I very much like my KGSSHV Carbon.  Beautiful build with some exceptional components.  Extremely stable and a lot more low maintenance than a BHSE, but everyone has different tastes.  Suggest you listen before you purchase if you can manage it.
  
 HS


----------



## wuwhere

hemisam said:


> They're not inexpensive to start with and that's the asking price.  The price has been dropping as the Carbon is increasing in popularity.  I can certainly understand a BHSE not being in someone's price range, but if you look around they are popping up.  And, BTW, this isn't the only site things are posted for sale...
> 
> I very much like my KGSSHV Carbon.  Beautiful build with some exceptional components.  Extremely stable and a lot more low maintenance than a BHSE, but everyone has different tastes.  Suggest you listen before you purchase if you can manage it.
> 
> HS


 
  
 Unfortunately not many places have them. Its either through a meet, a CanJam or someone you know. I know they sound good, after all I trust you guys here.


----------



## purk

wuwhere said:


> I did a search in FS. So far this year only, I've seen 4? Still very expensive, about 5K used? I'm saving up for a Mjolnir KGSSHV Carbon.


 
 There are many builders that you can commission to build you a KGSSHV Carbon.  I know a couple peopole in Canada, one in Australia, and another in the USA.  So it doesn't hurt to look or ask around.  With a custom builder, you can use high-end resistors, caps, power supply boards, and even exotic volume control.  Mjolnir Carbon should sound amazing with a class leading build quality but I feel strongly that other builders can provide similar quality builds as well.


----------



## thinker

Hmm...let's see, delivery time for Aristaeus from Head-Amp is 2-4 weeks as showed on their website,bought it on Jul 25 2016 and have no idea when the amp will be delivered now it's almost 11 weeks from payment. Hah...

 Aristaeus-1
 HeadAmp Aristaeus
 $3,999.00
  
 Ships in 2-4 Weeks


----------



## Rossliew

purk said:


> There are many builders that you can commission to build you a KGSSHV Carbon.  I know a couple peopole in Canada, one in Australia, and another in the USA.  So it doesn't hurt to look or ask around.  With a custom builder, you can use high-end resistors, caps, power supply boards, and even exotic volume control.  Mjolnir Carbon should sound amazing with a class leading build quality but I feel strongly that other builders can provide similar quality builds as well.




So far I've seen other builds with very nice aesthetics. Birgirs builds are probably more focused on the performance rather than the looks. Having said that, can anyone share impressions from a Mjolnir Carbon?


----------



## seaice

rossliew said:


> So far I've seen other builds with very nice aesthetics. Birgirs builds are probably more focused on the performance rather than the looks. Having said that, can anyone share impressions from a Mjolnir Carbon?


 

 My Mjolnir Carbon pairs greatly with SR-009. This is all I can say as I have no experience with other Stax amps.


----------



## bearFNF

thinker said:


> Hmm...let's see, delivery time for Aristaeus from Head-Amp is 2-4 weeks as showed on their website,bought it on Jul 25 2016 and have no idea when the amp will be delivered now it's almost 11 weeks from payment. Hah...
> 
> 
> Aristaeus-1
> ...


LOL, let us know how that goes for you.


----------



## Rossliew

seaice said:


> My Mjolnir Carbon pairs greatly with SR-009. This is all I can say as I have no experience with other Stax amps.




Any issues with the treble? May I ask if you listen to lossless music primarily with your rig or regular redbook tunes?

I listen mostly to Spotify premium and metal tunes primarily so not sure if the 009 would be a good pairing. Would u say the Mjolnir Carbon has a warmish tonality ?


----------



## CalvinW

purk said:


> There are many builders that you can commission to build you a KGSSHV Carbon.  I know a couple peopole in Canada, one in Australia, and another in the USA.  So it doesn't hurt to look or ask around.  With a custom builder, you can use high-end resistors, caps, power supply boards, and even exotic volume control.  Mjolnir Carbon should sound amazing with a class leading build quality but I feel strongly that other builders can provide similar quality builds as well.


 
 Any specific builders you would recommend in Canada? Mjolnir is just too expensive! Spritzer said the high pricing is due to the heavy import taxes in Iceland.


----------



## seaice

rossliew said:


> Any issues with the treble? May I ask if you listen to lossless music primarily with your rig or regular redbook tunes?
> 
> I listen mostly to Spotify premium and metal tunes primarily so not sure if the 009 would be a good pairing. Would u say the Mjolnir Carbon has a warmish tonality ?


 

 I have no treble issues with SR-009 and Mjolnir Carbon. I used Senn HD800 previously and SR-009 are nicer in the treble area. I listen to lossless music (Jriver vis ASAPI) plus online stuff (e.g. magnatune, youtube) via standard Win 10 drivers... Not sure I would describe the sound as warm. Really difficult to say ... and it depends on the whole setup. I would describe my setup with 009 rather as musical, detailed, pleasant...
  
 My metal days are over, not sure about this particular genre and 009.


----------



## astrostar59

seaice said:


> I have no treble issues with SR-009 and Mjolnir Carbon. I used Senn HD800 previously and SR-009 are nicer in the treble area. I listen to lossless music (Jriver vis ASAPI) plus online stuff (e.g. magnatune, youtube) via standard Win 10 drivers... Not sure I would describe the sound as warm. Really difficult to say ... and it depends on the whole setup. I would describe my setup with 009 rather as musical, detailed, pleasant...
> 
> My metal days are over, not sure about this particular genre and 009.


 

 You have the Audio GD and other non oversampling DACs I believe? I think as long as the DAC used with the amp then the 009s is not a detail freak cold DS unit, or any DAC that has a treble emphasis as many do, then you should be fine. I estimate the 009s have a 3-4dB lift around 15K and up. That can be a bit ruthless.
  
 Rossliew
 Your DAC, look how you are feeding it, is it USB? Maybe you can clean up that? PM me if you want to chat about your DAC and tweaks.


----------



## seaice

astrostar59 said:


> You have the Audio GD and other non oversampling DACs I believe? I think as long as the DAC used with the amp then the 009s is not a detail freak cold DS unit, or any DAC that has a treble emphasis as many do, then you should be fine. I estimate the 009s have a 3-4dB lift around 15K and up. That can be a bit ruthless.
> 
> Rossliew
> Your DAC, look how you are feeding it, is it USB? Maybe you can clean up that? PM me if you want to chat about your DAC and tweaks.


 

 My quote was related to this setup: PC (Win10, Jriver with wasapi or standard windows sound)>JCAT USB Femto card>USB>Intona USB Isolator>A-GD U8 (modified)>HDMI I2S> Audio-Gd Master 7 > MBL 5011 preamp > Mjolnir Carbon > SR009


----------



## mulveling

seaice said:


> I have no treble issues with SR-009 and Mjolnir Carbon. I used Senn HD800 previously and SR-009 are nicer in the treble area. I listen to lossless music (Jriver vis ASAPI) plus online stuff (e.g. magnatune, youtube) via standard Win 10 drivers... Not sure I would describe the sound as warm. Really difficult to say ... and it depends on the whole setup. I would describe my setup with 009 rather as musical, detailed, pleasant...
> 
> My metal days are over, not sure about this particular genre and 009.


 
 Been listening to metal on the headphone/digital setup a lot recently (e.g. Iced Earth, Rage, Avantasia, Blind Guardian, Nightwish, Metallica). No problems on BHSE/Yggy/009 with good vintage EL34 tubes (stay away from Yggy USB input though). It's less fatiguing than any dynamic headphone setup I've heard, and sounds way better too. Dynamics tend get into trouble at higher SPL levels, distorting and causing fatigue. I also like metal on my 009/Carbon, but now like the BHSE better.
  
 I wouldn't describe my Carbon as warm either, but it's not bright or aggravating. But once you get your BHSE tubes dialed in and give it hella warmup time (seriously, the damn thing takes a while to come around vs. other amps), I would say yes - it actually has a touch of warmth.


----------



## purk

rossliew said:


> So far I've seen other builds with very nice aesthetics. Birgirs builds are probably more focused on the performance rather than the looks. Having said that, can anyone share impressions from a Mjolnir Carbon?


 
 I'm not technical enough to know the difference between the two Carbons  but Mjolnir's boards are not the same as the DIY group buy.  However, the DIY units often use better parts as well as better power supply (most will use GRLV & GRHV PSU).   I'm not  sure which will be better but PSU is always very import to the sound of the amp.  I strongly believe that DIY Carbon should be in a tight race to the Mjolnir's one.


----------



## Rossliew

calvinw said:


> Any specific builders you would recommend in Canada? Mjolnir is just too expensive! Spritzer said the high pricing is due to the heavy import taxes in Iceland.


 
  
 You could get in touch with @georgep on here. If I'm not mistaken, he's Canadian,


seaice said:


> I have no treble issues with SR-009 and Mjolnir Carbon. I used Senn HD800 previously and SR-009 are nicer in the treble area. I listen to lossless music (Jriver vis ASAPI) plus online stuff (e.g. magnatune, youtube) via standard Win 10 drivers... Not sure I would describe the sound as warm. Really difficult to say ... and it depends on the whole setup. I would describe my setup with 009 rather as musical, detailed, pleasant...
> 
> My metal days are over, not sure about this particular genre and 009.


 
  
 Thanks for the feedback.
  


astrostar59 said:


> Rossliew
> Your DAC, look how you are feeding it, is it USB? Maybe you can clean up that? PM me if you want to chat about your DAC and tweaks.


 
  
 Thanks, Julian. I have the Audio Note DAC 4.1 kit but i wouldn't necessarily call it warm..and i only use SPDIF coax as input via a M2Tech Hiface 2 adapter.
  


mulveling said:


> Been listening to metal on the headphone/digital setup a lot recently (e.g. Iced Earth, Rage, Avantasia, Blind Guardian, Nightwish, Metallica). No problems on BHSE/Yggy/009 with good vintage EL34 tubes (stay away from Yggy USB input though). It's less fatiguing than any dynamic headphone setup I've heard, and sounds way better too. Dynamics tend get into trouble at higher SPL levels, distorting and causing fatigue. I also like metal on my 009/Carbon, but now like the BHSE better.
> 
> I wouldn't describe my Carbon as warm either, but it's not bright or aggravating. But once you get your BHSE tubes dialed in and give it hella warmup time (seriously, the damn thing takes a while to come around vs. other amps), I would say yes - it actually has a touch of warmth.


 
  
 My type of tunes  Am looking out for a used BHSE in fact...will keep in mind your tips on warm up and tube set. Thanks too!


----------



## Rossliew

purk said:


> I'm not technical enough to know the difference between the two Carbons  but Mjolnir's boards are not the same as the DIY group buy.  However, the DIY units often use better parts as well as better power supply (most will use GRLV & GRHV PSU).   I'm not  sure which will be better but PSU is always very import to the sound of the amp.  I strongly believe that DIY Carbon should be in a tight race to the Mjolnir's one.


 
 Yes, Birgir did mention the DIY boards in the market were different from his but no further details provided. From what you're saying, am I correct to interpret as the Mjolnir Carbons may be considered pretty much top of the hill builds as well?


----------



## purk

rossliew said:


> Yes, Birgir did mention the DIY boards in the market were different from his but no further details provided. From what you're saying, am I correct to interpret as the Mjolnir Carbons may be considered pretty much top of the hill builds as well?


 
 I don't own the Mjolnir one so I will not speculate on that but it is a sure bet with his amp.   However, my Carbon (not Mjolnir) also does sound pretty spectacular as well.


----------



## Rossliew

purk said:


> I don't own the Mjolnir one so I will not speculate on that but it is a sure bet with his amp.   However, my Carbon (not Mjolnir) also does sound pretty spectacular as well.


 

 Fair point. Have no doubt your Carbon sounds swell too   But you do prefer the BHSE at this point in time? Would you say the BHSE Is more suited to the 007 instead of the 009?


----------



## purk

rossliew said:


> Fair point. Have no doubt your Carbon sounds swell too   But you do prefer the BHSE at this point in time? Would you say the BHSE Is more suited to the 007 instead of the 009?


 
 I just think that with the BHSE...you can tailor the sound to your liking more.  Some have said that they don't hear difference between tubes but many of us here can discern it.  Muveling for instance clearly able differentiate between Mullard & Holland NOS varieties.  I personally like  the BHSE better but I don't have it any more as Muveling bought mine.


----------



## Rossliew

purk said:


> I just think that with the BHSE...you can tailor the sound to your liking more.  Some have said that they don't hear difference between tubes but many of us here can discern it.  Muveling for instance clearly able differentiate between Mullard & Holland NOS varieties.  I personally like  the BHSE better but I don't have it any more as Muveling bought mine.


 

 A disadvantage is that tube rolling those vintage EL34s can get really expensive! I'm hoping to learn to enjoy the stock tubes first (if i do manage to snag a unit).
  
 Do i sense a tinge of regret selling your BHSE?


----------



## wuwhere

Tube rolling gets very expensive. I use 4 6550s on my Audio Research tube amp. The best are the vintage Tung-Sols smooth plates. Very expensive. Plus manual biasing each tube. And the heat. And pre-heat for about 30 minutes before it sounds good. The reissues from China don't sound good. I prefer the Russian reissues. But the US Nos are the best, rare and expensive. So no BHSE for me. I have an SRM-717 coming this Friday. So it will be that and an 007 O2 Mk1 as my starter Stax system.


----------



## Rossliew

The way you put it is very discouraging LOL! Still, one cannot discount the handsome looks of the amp..guess if i can scrap enough cash to purchase a used unit, i shall be forced to listen with whatever tubes that came with the amp and start the cycle of savings again...


----------



## bmichels

OK OK but you must take into consideration the magic of a BHSE glowing in the dark pf your listening room...


----------



## wuwhere

The BHSE is probably auto-bias? I don't know. Power tubes don't last very long. So some people lowers the bias slightly to make the power tubes last a little longer. That's why I prefer manual bias. And they can implode. One 6550 tube on my amp did that. Good thing I heard it and I disconnected the power quickly. No damage done.


----------



## wuwhere

bmichels said:


> OK OK but you must take into consideration the magic of a BHSE glowing in the dark pf your listening room...


 
  
 They do. But the heat. And that's only 4 EL34 output tubes.


----------



## Rossliew

wuwhere said:


> The BHSE is probably auto-bias? I don't know. Power tubes don't last very long. So some people lowers the bias slightly to make the power tubes last a little longer. That's why I prefer manual bias. And they can implode. One 6550 tube on my amp did that. Good thing I heard it and I disconnected the power quickly. No damage done.


 

 BHSE is manual bias hence you have to take that extra step of manually biasing each tube with rolling...


----------



## purk

BHSE is self-bias and the power tubes on it should last a long time.  I remember Birgir  mentioned that the good old Mullard tube should last for over 10,000 hours.  Yes, I deeply miss my BHSE but I do have the T2 so I am not missing out on anything but the aesthetic of the amp.


----------



## wuwhere

purk said:


> BHSE is self-bias and the power tubes on it should last a long time.  I remember Birgir  mentioned that the good old Mullard tube should last for over 10,000 hours.  Yes, I deeply miss my BHSE but I do have the T2 so I am not missing out on anything but the aesthetic of the amp.


 
  
 That's a very long time. But that's understandable since its not powering speakers. NOS tubes tend to last longer too than reissues.


----------



## purk

wuwhere said:


> That's a very long time. But that's understandable since its not powering speakers. NOS tubes tend to last longer too than reissues.


 
 Very much so.  My first set of tube on the BHSE was the Shugung Black Glass treasure.  That thing didn't last more than 6 months for me.  I switched over the Holland XF4 and it it was still going strong  after 2 years or so.


----------



## mulveling

rossliew said:


> BHSE is manual bias hence you have to take that extra step of manually biasing each tube with rolling...


 
 It's not manual bias...you're only adjusting the balance of each push/pull pair, and the DC offset in each channel. And I've now tried 2 quads of 1960s Holland plus 1 quad of 1970s Mullard; all 3 are very very close to each other in adjustment settings. After PLENTY of warmup, all 4 measurements end up close enough to 0 (i.e. close enough to not matter), that I can actually roll these quads and not need to readjust. I definitely wouldn't recommend rolling an unknown quad without checking, though. And rolling daily isn't a great idea either (stress on sockets, tube pins/base, and boards).
  
 Apparently the BHSE runs EL34 well under their power ratings, so a *good* tube should last a long while.


----------



## mulveling

purk said:


> Very much so.  My first set of tube on the BHSE was the Shugung Black Glass treasure.  That thing didn't last more than 6 months for me.  I switched over the Holland XF4 and it it was still going strong  after 2 years or so.


 
 They don't make 'em like they used to -- in sound, build quality, or longevity.
  
 I use vintage tubes every slot I can -- always sounds better. The only exceptions are Russian KT120 in my tube monoblocks (because it needs _*three quads*_ of KT88/KT90/KT120) and an octet of 6N30pi in my preamp (no vintage alternative other than the extremely expensive DR types).


----------



## wuwhere

They've never been able to figure out the metallurgy and quality. Again that's understandable. The biggest NOS tubes buyer were military and their requirements were stringent and money is no object.


----------



## Rossliew

purk said:


> BHSE is self-bias and the power tubes on it should last a long time.  I remember Birgir  mentioned that the good old Mullard tube should last for over 10,000 hours.  Yes, I deeply miss my BHSE but I do have the T2 so I am not missing out on anything but the aesthetic of the amp.




Thanks for the clarification..a few of my friends have advised me to just go for the T2 instead of a BHSE - is this a justified call?



mulveling said:


> It's not manual bias...you're only adjusting the balance of each push/pull pair, and the DC offset in each channel. And I've now tried 2 quads of 1960s Holland plus 1 quad of 1970s Mullard; all 3 are very very close to each other in adjustment settings. After PLENTY of warmup, all 4 measurements end up close enough to 0 (i.e. close enough to not matter), that I can actually roll these quads and not need to readjust. I definitely wouldn't recommend rolling an unknown quad without checking, though. And rolling daily isn't a great idea either (stress on sockets, tube pins/base, and boards).
> 
> Apparently the BHSE runs EL34 well under their power ratings, so a *good* tube should last a long while.




I see...i stand corrected then. Have checked out Justin's video on checking the bias..looks pretty straightforward but an extra step nonetheless when swapping tubes. Is the stock tube set really meh sounding?


----------



## wuwhere

rossliew said:


> Thanks for the clarification..a few of my friends have advised me to just go for the T2 instead of a BHSE - is this a justified call?
> I see...i stand corrected then. Have checked out Justin's video on checking the bias..looks pretty straightforward but an extra step nonetheless when swapping tubes. Is the stock tube set really meh sounding?


 
  
 The problem is most manufacturers will only install commercially available tubes, ones they can buy today. Nos are not commercially available.


----------



## mulveling

rossliew said:


> Thanks for the clarification..a few of my friends have advised me to just go for the T2 instead of a BHSE - is this a justified call?
> I see...i stand corrected then. Have checked out Justin's video on checking the bias..looks pretty straightforward but an extra step nonetheless when swapping tubes. Is the stock tube set really meh sounding?


 
 If you can snag a nice DIY T2 then go for it, and never look back. As amazing as the BHSE is, nobody will dispute the DIY T2's superiority.
  
 I haven't tried any new-production tubes in the BHSE (if I didn't make that clear before). I tried 4 kinds of the Russian variants (3 New-Sensor types, plus the Winged-C) when tube rolling a couple of speaker amps years ago -- and based on that experience, I have absolutely no desire to try new-production tubes in my BHSE.


----------



## litleGrasshoper

To heard schubert ave maria which headphone is better 007,009,omega, or a he90?


----------



## Rossliew

mulveling said:


> If you can snag a nice DIY T2 then go for it, and never look back. As amazing as the BHSE is, nobody will dispute the DIY T2's superiority.
> 
> I haven't tried any new-production tubes in the BHSE (if I didn't make that clear before). I tried 4 kinds of the Russian variants (3 New-Sensor types, plus the Winged-C) when tube rolling a couple of speaker amps years ago -- and based on that experience, I have absolutely no desire to try new-production tubes in my BHSE.




Hardly anyone will build it and I suppose for a tropical climate like Malaysia, it can get too hot? Think I shall start with a BHSE first then move from there..thanks for the advice !


----------



## JimL11

wuwhere said:


> Power tubes don't last very long.


 
 Actually that depends entirely on how they are run.  Most tube power amps run them relatively hard, say at 80% of maximum, so they may last 2000 hours, perhaps less..  In the BHSE they are run at about 10 watts, which is only 40% of the rated 25 watts max, so they will last a long, long time, likely 10,000 hr for NOS tubes.
  
 The BH is somewhat unusual in that the tube operating conditions are set by the current loads on the output plates.  The same is true of my SRX Plus design.  The bias sets the plates to zero volts with respect to ground.  This is different from most tube power amps where the bias control sets the standing current through the tubes.


----------



## wuwhere

So I just got my SRM-717 and with 007 Mk1, it sounds pretty good. My HE-6 on tube speaker amp kicks better in the bass.


----------



## purk

wuwhere said:


> So I just got my SRM-717 and with 007 Mk1, it sounds pretty good. My HE-6 on tube speaker amp kicks better in the bass.


 
 It can get a good bit better actually with the KGSSHV.


----------



## wuwhere

purk said:


> It can get a good bit better actually with the KGSSHV.


 
  
 It has delicacy and smoothness. A little dark in a positive way.


----------



## wuwhere

I can understand now why some people still prefer planars. I'm still keeping my HE-6. With the Audio Research tube speaker amp, its great with piano. But the Stax is nice. Like Purk said, maybe all I need now is just a regular KGSSHV.


----------



## purk

wuwhere said:


> I can understand now why some people still prefer planars. I'm still keeping my HE-6. With the Audio Research tube speaker amp, its great with piano. But the Stax is nice. Like Purk said, maybe all I need now is just a regular KGSSHV.


 
 Yes, you will need something better to wake the SR-007 up.  You can get by with SR009+SRM-717 to a degree but the SR007 needs something much more powerful.  The 717 is relatively dark amplifier and a little soft around edge making it not an ideal pairing  with the SR007...try 500V  KGSSHV or even a  KGST.


----------



## wuwhere

purk said:


> Yes, you will need something better to wake the SR-007 up.  You can get by with SR009+SRM-717 to a degree but the SR007 needs something much more powerful.  The 717 is relatively dark amplifier and a little soft around edge making it not an ideal pairing  with the SR007...try 500V  KGSSHV or even a  KGST.


 
  
 That's what I'm thinking as well, amps make a big difference.


----------



## jibzilla

purk said:


> Yes, you will need something better to wake the SR-007 up.  You can get by with SR009+SRM-717 to a degree but the SR007 needs something much more powerful.  The 717 is relatively dark amplifier and a little soft around edge making it not an ideal pairing  with the SR007...try 500V  KGSSHV or even a  KGST.


 
  
 As a previous owner of a 727ii and current owner of a 500v mjolnir full size I have to agree. The 727ii was a better match with the sr-009's and the kgsshv with the 007's imo.


----------



## Jones Bob

jiml11 said:


> The BH is somewhat unusual in that the tube operating conditions are set by the current loads on the output plates.  The same is true of my SRX Plus design.  The bias sets the plates to zero volts with respect to *signal* ground.




FIFY


----------



## JimL11

Good point.  I need to make a small correction - according to an old KG post, the BHSE runs the EL34 at 18 mA and 400 volts, which means it dissipates 7.2 watts rather than 10.  That is less than 30% of max dissipation, so tube life should be very, very good indeed.


----------



## Jones Bob

With the BHSE, the output tubes are operated as grounded grid (essentially at B- of the bipolar PS), thought the FIFY might help clarify a little.

I enjoy reading your technical posts here and on That Other Site, Jim. Good stuff.


----------



## CalvinW

What voltage rail is the Mjolnir KGSSHV carbon using?


----------



## Tinkerer

calvinw said:


> What voltage rail is the Mjolnir KGSSHV carbon using?


 
  
 400V. The GRHV can be built to 450V though, just a few of the resistors are a bit of a pain to source.


----------



## Rossliew

tinkerer said:


> 400V. The GRHV can be built to 450V though, just a few of the resistors are a bit of a pain to source.




What difference in performance would the higher voltage rail bring?


----------



## Mach3

Can anyone with experience chime in.
  
  
 Stax SRM-727Mk2 Headphone Amplifier & STAX SRM-007t Mk2 Vacuum Beside being tube and SS. Which amp is better match for which serie of the stax headphone
  
 STAX SRM-006t & STAX SRM-006ts what's the difference.
  
 Also where do the SRM-T1S compare to the above AMP.


----------



## Tinkerer

mach3 said:


> Can anyone with experience chime in.
> 
> 
> Stax SRM-727Mk2 Headphone Amplifier & STAX SRM-007t Mk2 Vacuum Beside being tube and SS. Which amp is better match for which serie of the stax headphone
> ...


 
  
 All the tube stuff since the T1 is basically the same amp if I remember right except they change over to different output tubes.
  
 727 unmodded is more suited to lambdas and 009. It's way too dark for a 007 without the global feedback mod.


----------



## Jones Bob

rossliew said:


> What difference in performance would the higher voltage rail bring?




The higher voltage rails gives more linear operation of the tubes at similar output levels. 

Extra headroom is not an issue.


----------



## wuwhere

I've never listened to Stax before, this is my first Stax. With 007 Mk1 I'm hearing details that I've never noticed before. Its great with voice. Its so well balanced.


----------



## Mach3

tinkerer said:


> All the tube stuff since the T1 is basically the same amp if I remember right except they change over to different output tubes.
> 
> 727 unmodded is more suited to lambdas and 009. It's way too dark for a 007 without the global feedback mod.


 
  
 Thanks for the info.
  
 But wouldn't the SRM-727Mk2 & SRM-007t Mk2 have more head room than the SRM-T1s?


----------



## Tinkerer

mach3 said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> But wouldn't the SRM-727Mk2 & SRM-007t Mk2 have more head room than the SRM-T1s?


 
  
 T1/1S/1W has 300Vrms, 007t has 340 (and I just realized it has double the tubes of the T1, it's the 006t that's basically the same as the T1), and 727 has 450. That should give you a rough idea. I wouldn't think any of them are a miracle jump from one to the other though. My rebuilt solid state stax amp from the 70's I used to have wasn't much different than my old 727 built in 2011. They're all pretty good. The KG amps are where you see a bigger jump.


----------



## fate64

Is the 007 mkI that much better than the mkII? I can pick up an mkII for cheaper but I see so many people going with mkI instead.


----------



## astrostar59

fate64 said:


> Is the 007 mkI that much better than the mkII? I can pick up an mkII for cheaper but I see so many people going with mkI instead.


 
 The current MK2 is excellent, as good as the original MK1 IMO. The MK1 is now very old and maybe not a good investment now.
 The middle periods of MK2 were not quite as nice. Try and get a Japanese version MK2 (silver) or a latter 2015 onwards MK2. I would avoid the rest.


----------



## zolkis

fate64 said:


> Is the 007 mkI that much better than the mkII? I can pick up an mkII for cheaper but I see so many people going with mkI instead.


 
  
 Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> The current MK2 is excellent, as good as the original MK1 IMO. The MK1 is now very old and maybe not a good investment now.
> The middle periods of MK2 were not quite as nice. Try and get a Japanese version MK2 (silver) or a latter 2015 onwards MK2. I would avoid the rest.


 
  
 I have both (late Mk2 and a very early Mk1). I have also heard another Mk2 a few times, it sounded the same as mine, and one at a local dealer a few times, which again sounded the same. AFAICT today all Mk2 should sound very similar. But IMHO *the Mk1 and late Mk2 have quite different presentation in almost everything.*
  
 It is matter of taste, and genre which one is more suitable. Both are kind of equal class, respond well to earpad adjustments and mods, the Mk1 more so. I have measurements of both, and I have shared the essence a few pages back, with comparative impressions.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/10065#post_12900467
  
 [ One thing that was missing from there is the "port mod" on the Mk2, which I did recently, documented with pictures and measurements, but I clearly disliked it in the end, and don't recommend doing: for slightly less steep bass roll-off below 30 Hz you get a more muffled or constricted sound, narrower sound stage, and 2-3 dB weaker sound from 30 Hz until about 1500 Hz. The stock version is more enjoyable and more musical IMHO. Perhaps other stuffing material than Blutack would be better, but I don't want to experiment with that. The stock Mk2 is good enough to not care. ]
  
 There are many people who prefer the stock Mk1 over the stock Mk2 for reasons I understand (sound more open), but I think in stock configuration I'd actually prefer the Mk2 more often.
  
 However, after my mods I prefer the Mk1 (and to that extent that I started to doubt the SR-Ω sounds [much] better, but will hopefully see that soon). In the same time, there were earpad configurations that made the Mk1 and Mk2 sound very close to each other. You can't go wrong with either.
  
 For simplicity, I recommend getting a late Mk2, at least taking the spring out of the earpad, and preferably also strip the 4 mm white foam disk off the internal foam stuffing. It will sound more open, IMHO more musical, and bass will stay good.
  
 If getting a Mk1, more earpad mods are needed to make it sound the best (at least the same mods as for the Mk2), but the really best option is too complicated: 009 pads with stripped 009 stuffing + 2 mm thick carbon foam disk instead of the white one).


----------



## astrostar59

zolkis said:


> I have both (late Mk2 and a very early Mk1). I have also heard another Mk2 a few times, it sounded the same as mine, and one at a local dealer a few times, which again sounded the same. AFAICT today all Mk2 should sound very similar. But IMHO *the Mk1 and late Mk2 have quite different presentation in almost everything.*


 
 What date is the late MK2 you have? I ask as my MK2 is a Silver 007A 2015, which according to Birgir was about the time he thought the Black MK2s got good as well. I believe he says the current MK2 is good. I love mine and have no issues, no boom, lack of transparency, it is a nicely balanced HP from Stax.
  
 Unless obsessed with the MK1s different take, which I am not one way or the other myself, I would say go for a nearly new MK2 or better a NEW MK2. TBH it is a bargain for the performance on offer. Yeah the 009 is better IMO, but that can present it's own problems unless the source is mighty good (smooth treble) and undigital sounding. Transparency comes at a price.
  
 The MK2 007 is very forgiving, so you could say more practical, as long as the amp has enough juice...


----------



## wuwhere

I probably won't go 009. One of my favorite classic rock band is Chicago. They have brass instruments. And were not recorded well either. But the music is great. If your system is bright you won't be able to listen to their music.


----------



## Rossliew

jones bob said:


> The higher voltage rails gives more linear operation of the tubes at similar output levels.
> 
> Extra headroom is not an issue.


 

 Am I reading this correctly i.e.  a higher voltage rail will not affect headroom?


----------



## zolkis

astrostar59 said:


> What date is the late MK2 you have? I ask as my MK2 is a Silver 007A 2015, which according to Birgir was about the time he thought the Black MK2s got good as well. I believe he says the current MK2 is good. I love mine and have no issues, no boom, lack of transparency, it is a nicely balanced HP from Stax.


 
  
 2015/2 - for mine and the other one I have heard; the one at the dealer may be 2016. They all sound the same, and consistent: good sound stage, very nice bass, relaxed presentation. Looks like Stax got quality control under control .


----------



## astrostar59

zolkis said:


> 2015/2 - for mine and the other one I have heard; the one at the dealer may be 2016. They all sound the same, and consistent: good sound stage, very nice bass, relaxed presentation. Looks like Stax got quality control under control .


 

 Yes I thought the same. Or maybe Stax stopped changing the specs without telling anyone? Who knows?
  
 So yeah, mighty fine HP that can sound great and easy to live with.
  
 On another vein, I changed DAC recently and began to understand the 009 has no treble problem, rather is mighty transparent and fast. I am now getting bags of detail but no digital edge or fatigue. Before the DAC change I was wondering if they had an issue in the treble region such as sibilance or some low level distortion.


----------



## wuwhere

zolkis said:


> 2015/2 - for mine and the other one I have heard; the one at the dealer may be 2016. They all sound the same, and consistent: good sound stage, very nice bass, relaxed presentation. Looks like Stax got quality control under control .


 
  
 And the channel imbalance too? Oops...I wasn't suppose to say that here.


----------



## CalvinW

With the diaphragm change in the SZ3 007 Mk2, is it often considered easier to drive than the Mk1s?


----------



## zolkis

wuwhere said:


> And the channel imbalance too? Oops...I wasn't suppose to say that here.


 
  
 Why not... it has been discussed quite many times. I may be lucky but so far I haven't experienced channel imbalance with either of my Stax headphones so far... but others have been reporting it, and it is both annoying and expensive at headphones at these price levels, plus shipping to Japan and back. I don't know if it's still a problem lately, and how much. It's indeed a thing to consider with Stax. From that respect you are likely safer buying second hand units that have either been checked for it, or never turned out to have this problem.
  


calvinw said:


> With the diaphragm change in the SZ3 007 Mk2, is it often considered easier to drive than the Mk1s?


 
  
 I haven't noticed that - actually my 703xx Mk1 seems to be a tiny bit easier to drive, and also sounds a little bit louder. Let's say it's a draw and both require good amps.


----------



## wuwhere

zolkis said:


> Why not... it has been discussed quite many times. I may be lucky but so far I haven't experienced channel imbalance with either of my Stax headphones so far... but others have been reporting it, and it is both annoying and expensive at headphones at these price levels, plus shipping to Japan and back. I don't know if it's still a problem lately, and how much. It's indeed a thing to consider with Stax. From that respect you are likely safer buying second hand units that have either been checked for it, or never turned out to have this problem.


 
  
 Stax was never forthcoming on its root cause. So to avoid all the hassles I'll just get me a backup.


----------



## CalvinW

Wasn't the channel imbalance issue limited to just the 009s?


----------



## wuwhere

calvinw said:


> Wasn't the channel imbalance issue limited to just the 009s?


 
  
 I don't think so.


----------



## CalvinW

wuwhere said:


> I don't think so.


 
 Dang, now I'm worried, I have a 007 and thought I would be safe from the issues.


----------



## wuwhere

calvinw said:


> Dang, now I'm worried, I have a 007 and thought I would be safe from the issues.


 
  
 Post #810
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/555908/stax-sr-009-channel-imbalance-trouble-driver-problem/795#post_12855925


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> What date is the late MK2 you have? I ask as my MK2 is a Silver 007A 2015, which according to Birgir was about the time he thought the Black MK2s got good as well.


 
 The silver and black colors represent where they were purchased.
 Japan = silver
 U.S.A. = black


----------



## CalvinW

joseph69 said:


> The silver and black colors represent where they were purchased.
> Japan = silver
> U.S.A. = black


 
 Birgir was referring to the SZ3 007 MK2s


----------



## Jones Bob

rossliew said:


> Am I reading this correctly i.e.  a higher voltage rail will not affect headroom?




Sure it will affect actual electrical headroom, from around 1600VAC P-P to 1800VAC P-P, or less than a dB. Meh...

But you never going to listen to a STAX at anything approaching either high level with even inefficient SR-007 Mk2s with a sensitivity of 100dB/100V rms (282VAC P-P). 

Less distortion and higher slew rate at human pain limited listening levels is the reason for the higher PS rails.


----------



## joseph69

calvinw said:


> Birgir was referring to the SZ3 007 MK2s


 
 Yes, I know…doesn't matter, still an SZ3 either way, black or silver.


----------



## mulveling

I'm kind of morbidly curious about what happened to the KGDT -- seems like it fell right off the map. It appears to have very, very few builds out there, and as far as I can recall nobody has commented on the sound. It looked to be the most rolling-friendly of all the tube electrostatic amps (well, except for the ES-1, though that amp would also make its owner's life a living hell). Is it just that the KGST was better?


----------



## Jones Bob

A recent KGDT for sale sighting with photos...

http://www.head-fi.org/t/822311/kgdt-kevin-gilmore-and-mjolnir-audio-balanced-electrostatic-headphone-amplifier-sr-007


----------



## JimL11

rossliew said:


> Am I reading this correctly i.e.  a higher voltage rail will not affect headroom?


 

 As Jones Bob has stated, even 100 VRMS produces a very loud level (100 dB) in Stax headphones - equivalent to listening to an air hammer at 1 yard.  Most people won't listen at levels near this, and those who do will damage their hearing.  Basically, nobody will, or should, listen at levels near the output capacity of the amp.  So, if you can jump 3 feet in the air, it doesn't matter whether you are in a house with a 10 foot ceiling or a gym with a 50 foot ceiling - your head won't get close to either.


----------



## JimL11

mulveling said:


> I'm kind of morbidly curious about what happened to the KGDT -- seems like it fell right off the map. It appears to have very, very few builds out there, and as far as I can recall nobody has commented on the sound. It looked to be the most rolling-friendly of all the tube electrostatic amps (well, except for the ES-1, though that amp would also make its owner's life a living hell). Is it just that the KGST was better?


 

 Actually, the ES-S is NOT a very good candidate for tube rolling.  I've done a simulation of the basic SRX circuit and  the only suitable tubes for the input cascode amp section are the 12AT7 (best), and 12AX7, 5751 and 6SL7, which are not quite as good - you lose a few dB of gain compared to the 12AT7, and the circuit has little enough gain as designed.  The EL34 is OK for the output tube but its gain is marginal, so the 6S4A and 6SN7GTA/B are the best.  Nothing else will allow the circuit to work correctly, i.e. with flat frequency response and reasonable distortion.


----------



## Rossliew

jiml11 said:


> As Jones Bob has stated, even 100 VRMS produces a very loud level (100 dB) in Stax headphones - equivalent to listening to an air hammer at 1 yard.  Most people won't listen at levels near this, and those who do will damage their hearing.  Basically, nobody will, or should, listen at levels near the output capacity of the amp.  So, if you can jump 3 feet in the air, it doesn't matter whether you are in a house with a 10 foot ceiling or a gym with a 50 foot ceiling - your head won't get close to either.




Got it


----------



## Rossliew

mulveling said:


> I'm kind of morbidly curious about what happened to the KGDT -- seems like it fell right off the map. It appears to have very, very few builds out there, and as far as I can recall nobody has commented on the sound. It looked to be the most rolling-friendly of all the tube electrostatic amps (well, except for the ES-1, though that amp would also make its owner's life a living hell). Is it just that the KGST was better?




Was wondering the same thing when I saw the for sale post of the kgdt. Tempting at those prices which includes the 007 sz1 versions...yay or nay?


----------



## sarora

I am the one selling my KGDT because I am moving and don't have the space, but it is a great amplifier with the quality you expect from the KG & Mjolnir-Audio designs. It is very close to the KGST in terms of sound. Here's some information right from Birgir @ Mjolnir-Audio:
   





> > The Octave is the warmest of the bunch.  Traditional tube amp in every sense of the word but with some clever stuff thrown in the mix.  The KGDT and KGST are similar as they are based on the same design.  The DT is a bit warmer due to lower voltage rails and the tubes used.  The ST has this slight warmth to it which suits the 009's to a T.  Helps with some of the upper midrange nastiness they are prone to bring.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## wuwhere

sarora said:


> I am the one selling my KGDT because I am moving and don't have the space, but it is a great amplifier with the quality you expect from the KG & Mjolnir-Audio designs. It is very close to the KGST in terms of sound. Here's some information right from Birgir @ Mjolnir-Audio:


 
  
 If I had seen that a week ago I would have bought it. That's a great deal.


----------



## JimL11

I have not heard the KGDT but its design is very close to the KGST, which I have heard, and is a very good sounding amp.  The KGST was designed as the ultimate expression of the overall circuit topology of the SRM-007 but with a better choice of tubes and a constant current loaded output stage.  Similarly, the KGDT circuit topology it is very close to the SRM-T1 but the use of constant current loads in the output stage plus the more powerful ECC99 output tube make it much, much better in terms of its ability to drive any Stax headphone.  The price seems more than reasonable IMHO.


----------



## sarora

wuwhere said:


> If I had seen that a week ago I would have bought it. That's a great deal.


 
  
 Yeah, I used the ECC99 Gold Pin and they are pushed almost to the maximum (safely of course) at +300V with -300V bias, so 600V peak-to-peak which is quite a lot from the tubes, but the amplifier is quiet and there is absolutely no noise floor. And unlike some of the Stax amplifiers, that voltage swing is actually fully usable


----------



## wuwhere

I just bought an 007 and an SRM-717 last Saturday. But I'm thinking about your 007 though.


----------



## sarora

Back when I purchased the amp, I did ask Birgir what the swing voltage was via. e-mail and this was his reply - 
  


> The KDT swings about 370Vrms so about par with the Stax amps.  The difference here though is how much of that is actually usable.  The constant current sources make it usable all the way which is not the case with the Stax amps.
> 
> They are pretty much the same in terms of load.  The Mk2 maybe a smidge easier due to the more present top end but the change is tiny.


 
 (I was asking about his opinion on the 007MK1 vs MK2 with the KGDT)
  
  
 as well as the B+ voltage of 300V and a bias of -300V for 600Vpp.


----------



## JimL11

sarora said:


> Yeah, I used the ECC99 Gold Pin and they are pushed almost to the maximum (safely of course) at +300V with -300V bias, so 600V peak-to-peak which is quite a lot from the tubes, but the amplifier is quiet and there is absolutely no noise floor. And unlike some of the Stax amplifiers, that voltage swing is actually fully usable


 

 So the real issue with the Stax tube amps is the output stage design, which uses load resistors.  For example, with the SRM-T1, which has an output stage standing current of 9.7 mA/channel, and a specified maximum output voltage of 300 volts RMS, the load resistors and feedback resistors suck up about 9.2 mA peak, leaving only 0.5 mA for the headphones.   Now, this is a very high level, roughly 110 dB SPL at the ears, but as you may imagine, with this little bit of current available the sound is going to be a tad strained.  The use of constant current sources in the KGDT (and the other KG amps) considerably decreases the current sucked up by the amp, leaving a much greater amount of current available to the headphones.


----------



## JimL11

sarora said:


> Yeah, I used the ECC99 Gold Pin and they are pushed almost to the maximum (safely of course) at +300V with -300V bias, so 600V peak-to-peak which is quite a lot from the tubes, but the amplifier is quiet and there is absolutely no noise floor. And unlike some of the Stax amplifiers, that voltage swing is actually fully usable


 

 Just to make it clear, the ECC99 is specified for a maximum standing plate voltage of 400V (that is, a voltage it will tolerate indefinitely), so a design voltage of 300 volts (75%) on the plates isn't a big deal.  The T1 actually pushes significantly harder, as the 6CG76FQ7 tubes are specified for a max plate voltage of 330, and they are run at about 300 volts (90%).


----------



## sarora

jiml11 said:


> Just to make it clear, the ECC99 is specified for a maximum standing plate voltage of 400V (that is, a voltage it will tolerate indefinitely), so a design voltage of 300 volts (75%) on the plates isn't a big deal.  The T1 actually pushes significantly harder, as the 6CG76FQ7 tubes are specified for a max plate voltage of 330, and they are run at about 300 volts (90%).


 
  
 Yes, I asked Birgir about this specifically when looking at the datasheet (the 400V on the ECC99) and when designing the KGDT they decided that this was the best/maximum voltage (300V on the B+ with -300V bias for 600Vpp and ~370Vrms) to go with in order to keep the amplifier smoothly running without the tubes dying quickly or causing other issues with the topology that allowed it to leave a much larger amount of current for the headphones, especially the 007Mk1's which are notoriously hard to drive.


----------



## zolkis

rossliew said:


> Was wondering the same thing when I saw the for sale post of the kgdt. Tempting at those prices which includes the 007 sz1 versions...yay or nay?


 
  
 Yay, big time. It's a fair and good deal. I am pretty sure the amp drives the 007 well enough - the similar Erik Konka amp did as well at similar price, and Mjölnir make is probably the best you can choose for Stax. I don't want a 3rd 007, so I stay clear, but I must say it's tempting to buy just for trying it and then selling on .
  
 Additionally, you can improve (or at least tweak) the sound of the 007 to your liking by
 - playing with fit (bend the headbands for proper fit),
 - by experimenting with taking out the springs from the ear pads,
 - by reversible-modding the earpad stuffing (cutting the 4 mm white foam disk off from the yellow foam and optionally replacing them with thin carbon foam disk or crescent moon shaped pieces),
 - by buying 009 pads (and mod them too). There are a lot of options, and most of them are described in the mods thread, anyone can try them.
 I haven't played with the SZ1 series yes, but based on what I heard about alleged differences between the SZ1 series and 70xxxx series, it is possible that after mods they may sound even better than the early models.
  
 So far the only headphone I could not make sound quite much better with (earpad) mods is the 009 - although I could make it sound warmer with more bass and less 1-4K mids, in the end I think the original sounded closer to the truth (with classical and instrumental), and it felt like a sacrilege using the 009 just for fun. A reference ought to stay a reference .


----------



## astrostar59

rossliew said:


> Was wondering the same thing when I saw the for sale post of the kgdt. Tempting at those prices which includes the 007 sz1 versions...yay or nay?


 

 I would never say buy it as I haven't heard it. Also why so few of this build? Is it the KGST is better? Too many if's and don't knows.


----------



## sarora

astrostar59 said:


> I would never say buy it as I haven't heard it. Also why so few of this build? Is it the KGST is better? Too many if's and don't knows.


 
  
 I explained why it's not that popular. KG/Birgir @ Mjolnir-Audio who makes the amps doesn't have unlimited time. He sells what he has in stock...I've talked to him about it when I purchased the amplifier (KGDT). The KGST was in active production and the KGDT was drawn up by Kevin Gilmore and Birgir and then released on Head-Case where they are very active, not here. You will find more info about things there..anyways, at the time he was moving and had as stuff was sold, he would remove it off the site. If you see my post a few back, I quote some stuff where Birgir explains the KGDT -- it is the sister amplifier of the KGST. It is very similar, but has the option of tube rolling. All of Mjolnir-Audio's stuff is excellent, no doubt, and the constant current source design allows your headphones to actually be able to utilize up the 600Vpp / ~380Vrms swings that the KGDT provides. Before I even bought the amplifier it was advertised as having very good control over the 007 MK1.
  
 However, the slight compromise is that there is less current than the sister amplifier (KGST) which was already known, and thus the KGDT is warmer.  Again, here's a direct quote: 
  


> The amp was designed around the ECC99/12BH7A and the 6N6pi/6CG7 but others will work assuming they have similar specs and the same pinout.  The circuit board has a simple toggle switch to select single 6.3V heater or a center tapped 12.6V setup.  Now some slight compromises had to be made to accommodate  these tubes so the rail voltages are a bit lower than on the KGST and there is a bit lower current running through the output stage.  This is done so that the tubes can’t be run way too hard and thus not last long.
> The sound of this amp is very similar to the KGST and so is the performance.  Great control of even tricky phones like the SR-007 Mk1 plus the ability to alter the tone of the amp with different tubes.  117V or 230V are no problem as the amp has a switch inside like all my new amps.


 
  
  
 The amplifier, as all of his work, is very well designed...and it's very similar to the KGST. However, from an economics standpoint and limited time in a day/opportunity costs, the demand for the Carbon (which is $4600 vs. $2200 - what I paid for the KGDT - and the KGST is $3000 for reference) as well as the highest-end amplifiers they make is very high as you can see it if you go on Head-Case or read the company site, as you see with many flagships that are excellent....and if you have the money and setup for it, it's an amazing amplifier no doubt.
  
 But I am *certain* he is focusing his attention on building and stocking the Carbon as well as improving designs for the future with Kevin as they often do for projects. You can see that just looking at their activities on the forums of Head-Case..not here.
  
 Anyways, tl;dr -- in my opinion the amplifier lives up to what it was advertised, and has the quality of his other products - build/chassis, component quality, craftsmanship, proper design (constant current source here, AC heaters) and things like easy switchable mains power for 115/230V and the passive XLR outputs to extend or connect the audio chain easily -- all of these things are found in their other amplifiers and that is certainly not lacking with the KGDT.


----------



## paradoxper

What a sales pitch.


----------



## sarora

paradoxper said:


> What a sales pitch.




Glad you liked it!

I'm allowed to speak my experience, correct some information if it becomes relevant, and it indeed becomes relevant when someone puts off work from an otherwise very reputable group that you would agree with no problem - just because not many people here talk about it and so it must be terrible. The KG designs are all very good and they're all respectable people that aren't going to sell garbage even if I paid $2200 and not $4600 for the top of the line amplifier which they make and no one would say a word about.

And my sales pitch is explaining how I feel about it with actual data said by the guy who designed the amp himself...most of it was stuff I got clarified *before* I even bought it, so if anything I'm defending the product. 

I don't expect any of you guys to buy this; I assume you have your own Stax rigs. But I will chime in when something is said like this is off limits because "who knows?" when you can find stuff from an owner of the product like me, the designer's comments directly, and things from where they mostly hang out...on head-case (not here).


----------



## paradoxper

sarora said:


> Glad you liked it!
> 
> I'm allowed to speak my experience, correct some information if it becomes relevant, and it indeed becomes relevant when someone puts off work from an otherwise very reputable group that you would agree with no problem - just because not many people here talk about it and so it must be terrible. The KG designs are all very good and they're all respectable people that aren't going to sell garbage even if I paid $2200 and not $4600 for the top of the line amplifier which they make and no one would say a word about.
> 
> ...


 
 You take the cheeky much too serious.


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> You take the cheeky much too serious.


 

 My view. just get a KGST if he wants tubes, bigger user base, known sound quality. Or go for a KGSShv Sanyo as I know that is a great amp. as I had one.


----------



## sarora

paradoxper said:


> You take the cheeky much too serious.


 
  
 Probably. Been awake longer than I should working so excuse my defensive language, lol. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 And yeah the reason this is just coming up is simple price....sure if price is no object go for it. I am not forcing anyone to do anything here. Just trying to justify my price. And forgetting about any one person here, I think it is pretty fair considering the prices for those amplifiers you just mentioned what I'm asking for with respect to the stuff I told you about the experience as well as the similarities and direct quote from the guy who made it....nothing new here. I was just getting the feeling that half of you think that the amplifier is worth about $500 and is essentially garbage from an otherwise excellent company because no one speaks about it on Head-Fi yet that isn't really a fair thing to say.


----------



## JimL11

zolkis said:


> I am pretty sure the amp drives the 007 well enough - the similar Erik Konka amp did as well at similar price, and Mjölnir make is probably the best you can choose for Stax.


 
 I haven't heard the Konka Nebuchadnezzar amp, but based on an internal pic of one that sold on Head-Fi within the past year, it appears to be a variation on Gilmore's all triode amp from the 1990s, which is a completely different design from the KGDT and KGST.  The all triode amp is all tubes, with output plate resistors.  The Woo GES is, as I understand it, a similar topology.  Neither the all triode amp, the GES or the Konka have constant current loads on the output tubes, and so will not have the drive capability of the KGST or KGDT.


----------



## astrostar59

I hope it issn't anything like the Nebuchadnezzar amp as that got dissected / slated by Birgir.


----------



## sarora

The GES from Woo has/had a potential issue with the bias supply ballast resistor where it was incorrectly done or just not there in some of the older models at least, so over time your Stax headphone diaphragm would be in danger of destruction to put it nicely...

Birgir fixed the issue and added a few tweaks for balancing and power delivery with The Ocatave amp which they still sell and is his take on the GES.

As mentioned by Jim, KGDT/KGST aren't the same at all. They are essentially hybrid amplifiers and they don't have the issue that the all-triode GES had. I don't think The Octave has any issues as he wouldn't be selling it if it did, and I know it's modified from the old Woo GES design. 

The Octave was described to me as being very warm and not ideal for the 007Mk1 as they're very picky, so I didn't buy it. Originally I was actually going to go with The Octave as I like tube designs (when done right). But yes, the KGDT and KGST have much more control over the voltage swing due to their design and constant current source. There is absolutely no noise even at maximum volume on the KGDT and I'd assume the same for the KGST.

By the way, there does seem to be one person who had experience with the KGDT besides me: http://www.head-fi.org/t/769105/mjolnir-audio-electrostatic-amps/15#post_11660846 but he hasn't posted recently. However I would agree with what he's saying re: the option to tube roll if you want to tune and the price (you can't tube roll by design with the the KGST).


----------



## CalvinW

Does anyone have any idea what volume pot Mjölnir amp uses?


----------



## Tinkerer

calvinw said:


> Does anyone have any idea what volume pot Mjölnir amp uses?


 

 Depends on the amp, but usually an Alpha or an Alps pot.


----------



## sarora

I believe he started to use Alpha potentiometers as he said they perform better in his testing for all his amplifier builds (read that on Head-Case) going back to at least the beginning of this year.


----------



## Pale Rider

My Carbon CC [built this year] has an Alps RK50 pot in it.


----------



## Rossliew

pale rider said:


> My Carbon CC [built this year] has an Alps RK50 pot in it.


 

 Correct me if I'm wrong but the CC was a special cost no object take on the Carbon..shouldnt it be the Penny & Giles pot?


----------



## Pale Rider

rossliew said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but the CC was a special cost no object take on the Carbon..shouldnt it be the Penny & Giles pot?


 
 I don't know if I would call the CC a "cost no object" take on the Carbon. I think Birgir has something else in the works for that title. But the CC does have an improved power supply and a "few other improvements." In any case, the CC I bought [I think he only built a very small number, maybe as few as two earlier this year], has—per Birgir, unless he changed his mind after bench-testing the amp (ha!)—an RK50. I haven't opened it up to be sure, and I probably won't. Amp is sublime. I have not done a lot of side-by-side testing with my other Carbons and KGHVSS, but the CC is the one I use with my Select II.


----------



## Rossliew

pale rider said:


> I don't know if I would call the CC a "cost no object" take on the Carbon. I think Birgir has something else in the works for that title. But the CC does have an improved power supply and a "few other improvements." In any case, the CC I bought [I think he only built a very small number, maybe as few as two earlier this year], has—per Birgir, unless he changed his mind after bench-testing the amp (ha!)—an RK50. I haven't opened it up to be sure, and I probably won't. Amp is sublime. I have not done a lot of side-by-side testing with my other Carbons and KGHVSS, but the CC is the one I use with my Select II.


 

 Yes, he did mention something altogether more abominable than the CC  But i recall he built two units and one of it had a Penny & Giles pot. Perhaps the second one was with an RK50, nonetheless, it's still top notch stuff. Hope to hear your impressions against your other Carbon. Birgir builds some very good stuff. Listening with his SuSy Dynalo PureBipolar dynamic amp now - yes, sublime is THE word!


----------



## astrostar59

pale rider said:


> I don't know if I would call the CC a "cost no object" take on the Carbon. I think Birgir has something else in the works for that title. But the CC does have an improved power supply and a "few other improvements." In any case, the CC I bought [I think he only built a very small number, maybe as few as two earlier this year], has—per Birgir, unless he changed his mind after bench-testing the amp (ha!)—an RK50. I haven't opened it up to be sure, and I probably won't. Amp is sublime. I have not done a lot of side-by-side testing with my other Carbons and KGHVSS, but the CC is the one I use with my Select II.


 

 Does it have the GR PS with shunt boards? I thought it didn't. Saw a pic of the insides a while back.


----------



## kevin gilmore

RK50 vs P&G.   Roughly the same price, and roughly the same performance. I have a few of each.
  
 A RK27 is a much cheaper mass market pot.


----------



## sarora

I talked to Kevin and Birgir a few hours ago and they once again told me what I had thought. I am not going to quote what they told me in public completely as it wasn't related to the whole KGDT vs. KGST thing . But "As for the KGDT, it is the same circuit as the KGST just run at lower current and voltage to suit the dual triode tubes." was mentioned." which is again, from today. 

It doesn't take much longer to build a KGST. The board designs are open hardware for personal use as most of Kevin and Birgir's things are. Once you have the parts and especially the PCB unpopulated, it may be like 2-3 hours more of raw soldering for the KGST but the price they charge is $800 more. But they don't hang out here much anymore for a reason.

And yeah they'll build anything to an extent -- if you want to replace the potentiometer with something like a stepped attenuator (such as the Elma or DACT switches) then that's not a terribly hard mod, but it'll cost of course.

I think the potentiometer is chosen either to keep some type of unity between models or what is at hand, or it could be that is what works best when testing that amp. I'm not sure. I do know that there's not a massive difference in the standard Alps or Alpha for the most part and I know that Kevin/Birgir are both technical engineers. They go by engineering not by design though the design is fine..it's what's on the inside there that does actually count. So looking inside one of their amplifiers should give you an idea of its construction quality and right away there are things you can point out that are done way better than, for example, Stax. Birgir even told me a while back that he had to push Justin who made the BHSE to implement the passive XLR outputs. Not sure about everyone here, but that is a huge benefit that I think many other companies neglect. It is a tiny PCB for two XLR slots and a few wiring point to point and you're completely passive -- that makes insierting any of their recent (as far as I can think) stuff really easy into your potentially complex chain of audio.


----------



## Pale Rider

In the case of my CC, what Birgir told me is that he got a "screaming deal" on the RK50 that made the price of the CC more reasonable. The size of the RK50 did require a slightly off-center alignment of the volume control, but it's only noticeable when you notice it. Worked for me. And I think you are right @sarora that they are engineers first.


----------



## Pale Rider

astrostar59 said:


> Does it have the GR PS with shunt boards? I thought it didn't. Saw a pic of the insides a while back.




Don't know.


----------



## wuwhere

Alps RK50 is not cheap. Is that what KGSSHV DIYers use?


----------



## Tinkerer

pale rider said:


> size of the RK50


 
  
 You should see the one I'm sticking in my new amp that got pulled from an old radar station. 3"x3.5", biggest pot I've ever held in my hand. Might be garbage, but I couldn't help grabbing it for cheap since it had the right resistance for audio and all four gangs track within .5% of each other.


----------



## Pale Rider

tinkerer said:


> You should see the one I'm sticking in my new amp that got pulled from an old radar station. 3"x3.5", biggest pot I've ever held in my hand. Might be garbage, but I couldn't help grabbing it for cheap since it had the right resistance for audio and all four gangs track within .5% of each other.




Post a pic!


----------



## Tinkerer

Sure thing. Try to ignore the horribly unsafe floating stuff except for scale. I was testing some things this morning.


----------



## kevin gilmore

most of those are instrumentation pots and don't have stops at 0 or 360 degrees.
 you might end up with a surprise when you turn it past zero


----------



## Tinkerer

kevin gilmore said:


> most of those are instrumentation pots and don't have stops at 0 or 360 degrees.
> you might end up with a surprise when you turn it past zero


 

 That's why the volume is getting marked very carefully. Might also put a peg stop on the knob. And though it still measures good from what I can tell, it might turn out to be junk. It is probably thirty years old after all. I just figure it's worth trying because when is the next time I'll have an enclosure big enough to try it?


----------



## goobicii

over a year,since it was revelead,I dream about the Nanotube/ciclotron/4x 500v floating power supply DIY Gilmore push pull beast of a amp
  
 there is one four page thread already about it but its kinda dead and I just cant handle my appetite for some information.From what I reed,Kevin mentioned some new even better ultra low noise power supplies,and I think some kind of "digital" bias thing he is working on that could be put into it...
  
 did anybody hear it? build it?        how much would be the cost of the parts in Europe?   I remember there is problem fitting all that stuff into single chassis where it needs to be becose of the dangers asociated with such power,I was thinking I would just make my own extra large custom chassis so that would be non issue
  
 Kevin mentioned its little lower distortion,the push pull effect should cancel second order harmonic by atleast 6db if I remember correctly,is it even audibly different that Birgirs Carbon?


----------



## soren_brix

goobicii said:


> over a year,since it was revelead,I dream about the Nanotube/ciclotron/4x 500v floating power supply DIY Gilmore push pull beast of a amp
> 
> there is one four page thread already about it but its kinda dead and I just cant handle my appetite for some information.From what I reed,Kevin mentioned some new even better ultra low noise power supplies,and I think some kind of "digital" bias thing he is working on that could be put into it...
> 
> ...


 
 4x 900V floating power supply + 2x450V + 2x15V PSU.
 Bridge rather than push-pull arrangement hence the name: circlotron.
 PSU's all based on "Golden Reference" which most Carbon's DIY are also based on.
 Digital BIAS is something different and nothing to do with Circlotron as such.
 Parts Cost probably north of 3k USD all parts ready available (apart from k389/k170)
 Fits in a 5U Dissipante from Modushop.
 The Circlotron is faster (higher slewrate) in comparison to the Carbon.


----------



## Tinkerer

Since the 5U is so cramped, I wound up using a 12U mini server case laid on its side with massive surplus heatsinks bolted to the side rails. Same width but you get about five inches more vertical space and five inches more length to work with. It let me worry less about stuff like transformer placement or where to route cables and things. Of course it's a hundred and fifty pound cube with everything in it, most of that being heat sink, but it was also only about 3/4 the cost of the Dissipante.


----------



## goobicii

tinkerer said:


> Since the 5U is so cramped, I wound up using a 12U mini server case laid on its side with massive surplus heatsinks bolted to the side rails. Same width but you get about five inches more vertical space and five inches more length to work with. It let me worry less about stuff like transformer placement or where to route cables and things. Of course it's a hundred and fifty pound cube with everything in it, most of that being heat sink, but it was also only about 3/4 the cost of the Dissipante.


 
  
 how does it sound? what amp and headphones you use? did you compare it to some other amps like Carbon?


----------



## Tinkerer

goobicii said:


> how does it sound? what amp and headphones you use? did you compare it to some other amps like Carbon?


 

 I'm still finishing it. Got all the PSU's and stuff up and running but haven't hooked it up for music yet. Version 2 output boards for it only came in a couple weeks ago. I'm hoping to have it running by the end of the month though.
  
 The original impressions for the test version on the other site said it was basically one of the best amps ever made, like listening to a T2 for the first time all over again. So that gives me good expectations at least.
  
 Soren who replied to you was also building one and was further along than me, as well as a couple other people. There was a big group buy about this time last year.


----------



## goobicii

thats awesome!
 I cant wait for some review!


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## Rossliew

Must be a costly build as well...in the realms of a T2 or more?


----------



## Tinkerer

Soren ballparked it right. $450'ish for the boards +main power caps. $750'ish to stuff the rest of the boards. $330 for the transformers. $200 for the heat sinks. $70 for the rest of the case. $60 for angle brackets. $60 for sockets. Then all the wire, connectors, the volume control, the substantial cost for machining the faceplate and backplate. You don't think about it, but you even wind up spending like $50 on screws, standoffs, washers and isolators. Just keeps nickle and diming you, $50, $100 at a time.


----------



## AnakChan

> rossliew said:
> 
> 
> > Must be a costly build as well...in the realms of a T2 or more?
> ...


 
  
 Soren totaled up to approx $3k for the Ciclotron but I thought the DIY T2 was closer in the $9-$10k mark? Do feel free to correct me if I'm incorrect about the DIY T2 cost.


----------



## Tinkerer

anakchan said:


> Soren totaled up to approx $3k for the Ciclotron but I thought the DIY T2 was closer in the $9-$10k mark? Do feel free to correct me if I'm incorrect about the DIY T2 cost.


 
 There's no KG amp that costs 10k in normal BOM parts. DIY T2 goes up in price to build all the time because of some parts always getting tougher to find, but last I heard it was still under $4k. It was closer to $2k minimum back nearer when it was released. You're probably thinking of what it sells for. Like a BHSE goes around $5k but that's not what the parts costs is to build.


----------



## goobicii

and normal KGSShv Carbon how much in parts?


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## mulveling

The number I heard for DIY T2 parts was close to $6K, and this was a while ago. $4K maybe if you're getting an appropriate chassis for nearly free. You're not going to get a nice one built for you under $10K unless they're doing you a big favor. And Carbon parts, plus decent case, can fit comfortably/easily under $2K.
  
 The Head-Amp BHSE unit is a very, very good value considering the quality of the build, the design, and the care that has gone into perfecting them. Plus they're a rare "known quality" in the high-end Stax world. That said, a good DIY T2 build is king, no doubt.


----------



## goobicii

why is T2 better than BHSE? I constantly keep reading it,  how would you describe the improvement?


----------



## mulveling

goobicii said:


> why is T2 better than BHSE? I constantly keep reading it,  how would you describe the improvement?


 
 I've only heard Purk's a few times. But any amp you compare it to, the DIY T2 sounds notably better. With a Yggy source, the BHSE performed quite well and didn't get totally embarrassed, but the DIY T2 still improved upon it in every metric -- detail, soundstage, musicality (and another relative shortcoming of the BHSE is its long warmup time). Each of the 009, 007 Mk I, and he90 headphones sounds elite out of the T2. They actually sound _reasonably_ similar to each other off a T2, and all are at the absolute best I've ever heard them when hooked into this amp. Versus my Carbon -- a very fine amp -- well, the T2 trounces it. You're painfully aware that you're listening to SS devices in the Carbon during that matchup, whereas the T2 is pure music. Anyone with a shred of honesty and at least half of their hearing left will tell you the same. I bought Purk's BHSE after that 3-way BHSE/Carbon/T2/Aristaeus shootout because I was so impressed by how the BHSE was less far off from the T2 than other amps.
  
 It's got a wonderful organic, natural warmth that you can't exactly point to and declare "that's a warm amp", but it sneaks it in just so.
  
 I don't own a DIY T2. I wish I did. I'm definitely *not* helping my cause by contributing yet another post to its "legend" status. But that's how I feel about it. Congrats to Purk, and every other owner of this fine music machine. I specifically don't listen to Purk's T2 for too long, because it's like drinking directly from a fire hose of musical pleasure -- can't have my ears getting used to that.
  
 Once you hear one, you'll start to frame subsequent great audio/life experiences as: "like the first time I heard a T2". My first T2 experience w/ 009 is what got me to buy the 009.


----------



## purk

Mulveling summed it up very well.  I can't said it better myself.  It's just a wonderful amp.  The sheer sense of power as well as musicality in one listen is hard to replicate.


----------



## soren_brix

anakchan said:


> Soren totaled up to approx $3k for the Ciclotron but I thought the DIY T2 was closer in the $9-$10k mark? Do feel free to correct me if I'm incorrect about the DIY T2 cost.


 
 DIYT2 (current version) contains a bunch of obsolete semi's - some hard to get, and some almost impossible to get are driving the cost upwards.
 Further the choice of tubes and choice of teflon sockets might further drive the cost. Also one needs to account for rk50 as well ~ 1k USD.
 4-6kUSD sounds about right, although one might be able to find very exotic parts that will bridge the gap to 10kUSD..
 There are a few versions floating where obsolete semi's are replaced by ready available parts, that might be closer to 4k USD.
  
 IIRC Kevin stated that the Circlotron is a fair bit faster in comparison to the T2 and the T2 is faster in comparison to the BH.
 Circlotron (current version) is all semis, where as T2 has input/output tubes with semis in between, and BH is all semi's until output tubes.

 The Grounded Grid (released this year) might be considered a 'Carbon' with SiCs replaced by EL34 (the same output tubes used in T2/BH) all ready available parts.
 The Circlotron can be considered a 'Carbon' used as driver with a Circlotron bridge as output stage; probably possible to use a Grounded Grid as driver, and/or do the output bridge based on EL34s, if some wants to have a hybrid.
  
 Lots of ways to skin the cat and exercise the wallet still ...


----------



## kevin gilmore

tinkerer said:


> There's no KG amp that costs 10k in normal BOM parts. DIY T2 goes up in price to build all the time because of some parts always getting tougher to find, but last I heard it was still under $4k. It was closer to $2k minimum back nearer when it was released. You're probably thinking of what it sells for. Like a BHSE goes around $5k but that's not what the parts costs is to build.


 

 ​1)  There is no such thing as NORMAL
  
 2) the circlotron built with all emission labs 20B and all the extra stuff required to support them is $6k in tubes alone.  Probably close to $9K in parts
  
 3) the all DHT amp which has not been published yet really is more than $18K in parts.


----------



## Tinkerer

I was talking more about the stuff that usually gets built, but fair point. You mention the all DHT and I remember you saying previously that it was both brutally simple and brutally expensive.
  
 I also forgot the original T2 board+chassis price was pretty close to 1.5k on its own because of the massive size of the boards and that it's been around 4k minimum in parts total since it was first released. So soren's estimate is more accurate than mine.


----------



## zolkis

I think I've had another moment when I realized I am kind of Stax-headed. I had a second listen with the Utopia, and as technically excellent as it is, I like at least 3 Stax headphones more: the 007 Mk1, the 007 Mk2, and the 009. There is no contest for me, the 009 IMHO is better in everything - not a single area I like the Utopia more. Also, the 007's have more organic sound, more tuneful bass, and transparent mids without the hardness, in about the same technical class as the Utopia, but more musical sounding to my ears. Count in the price, and Stax is still in game...
  
 The Elear was a peculiar headphone, sounded good at first, then I realized it is too shut-in/veiled/woolish sound, with bass that is a bit off but it doesn't go as deep as the TH900 and with less bass slam. However it is still a very good headphone, especially for the price, but I'd get a 2nd hand 007 any time over it, and also the L700 (which is in about the same technical class as the Elear).
  
 I may have a particular sensitivity to hard sounding midrange, that's why I didn't like them as much as others. Check them yourself, but also include the above mentioned headphones in the comparison as well.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

zolkis said:


> I think I've had another moment when I realized I am kind of Stax-headed. I had a second listen with the Utopia, and as technically excellent as it is, I like at least 3 Stax headphones more: the 007 Mk1, the 007 Mk2, and the 009. There is no contest for me, the 009 IMHO is better in everything - not a single area I like the Utopia more. Also, the 007's have more organic sound, more tuneful bass, and transparent mids without the hardness, in about the same technical class as the Utopia, but more musical sounding to my ears. Count in the price, and Stax is still in game...
> 
> The Elear was a peculiar headphone, sounded good at first, then I realized it is too shut-in/veiled/woolish sound, with bass that is a bit off but it doesn't go as deep as the TH900 and with less bass slam. However it is still a very good headphone, especially for the price, but I'd get a 2nd hand 007 any time over it, and also the L700 (which is in about the same technical class as the Elear).
> 
> I may have a particular sensitivity to hard sounding midrange, that's why I didn't like them as much as others. Check them yourself, but also include the above mentioned headphones in the comparison as well.


 
  
 Hehehe nothing beats a properly amped 007, while more headphones I listen, more I like my 007.


----------



## 3X0

zolkis said:


> Count in the price, and Stax is still in game...


It costs $3k+ in amplification to drive Stax at/near TOTL levels.

There may be some ~$1k amplifier pairings for the Utopia that might upset the value proposition.

I wasn't overly enthused with the Utopia at first listen but I wouldn't be surprised if most of the blame was upstream of the transducers.


----------



## yates7592

zolkis said:


> I think I've had another moment when I realized I am kind of Stax-headed. I had a second listen with the Utopia, and as technically excellent as it is, I like at least 3 Stax headphones more: the 007 Mk1, the 007 Mk2, and the 009. There is no contest for me, the 009 IMHO is better in everything - not a single area I like the Utopia more. Also, the 007's have more organic sound, more tuneful bass, and transparent mids without the hardness, in about the same technical class as the Utopia, but more musical sounding to my ears. Count in the price, and Stax is still in game...




How do you rate bass on Utopia vs 009?


----------



## zolkis

3x0 said:


> It costs $3k+ in amplification to drive Stax at/near TOTL levels.
> 
> There may be some ~$1k amplifier pairings for the Utopia that might upset the value proposition.


 
  
 I doubt that. The Utopia has a show-stopper issue for me, the hardness in the midrange. That is a property of a drivers, not the amplification.
 I would prefer the 007 or 009 even out of a transformer box...
  


> I wasn't overly enthused with the Utopia at first listen but I wouldn't be surprised if most of the blame was upstream of the transducers.


 
  
 Yes. I used to have the Yamaha NS1000M monitors with Beryllium dome midrange and tweeter, and they had a very similar demeanor to these Focals: it loved sweet tube amps (conrad-johnson monoblocks in my case). But it still sounded harder than my Linn Isobarik (of the same year and similar class) and Martin Logans of the time. All are gone since. Anyway, my best guess is that tube amps would work well with the Utopia. 
  


> How do you rate bass on Utopia vs 009?


 
  
 The Utopia has good and correct bass, better than HD800, and probably better quality than most dynamic cans, but the 009 seems to be more extended, more tuneful, and faster IMHO.


----------



## 3X0

zolkis said:


> I doubt that. The Utopia has a show-stopper issue for me, the hardness in the midrange. That is a property of a drivers, not the amplification.


 
 Even if the midrange hardness is intrinsic to the drivers it can be ameliorated via amplification unless it's caused by the housing or resonances. FWIW some type of coloration in the midrange does indeed seem to be a common impression among those that have heard the Utopia (myself included) but I believe to-date most impressions have been from mediocre solid-state amplifiers.
  
 For me personally I'd probably take the Utopia's slightly iffy midrange over the upper-midrange/treble issues of the SR-009 (among other problems with the latter). I don't doubt that a $6k amplifier+headphone pairing built around the Utopia might trounce an equally-expensive system tailored around the SR-009. SR-007 is another story of course.


----------



## zolkis

3x0 said:


> Even if the midrange hardness is intrinsic to the drivers it can be ameliorated via amplification unless it's caused by the housing or resonances. FWIW some type of coloration in the midrange does indeed seem to be a common impression among those that have heard the Utopia (myself included) but I believe to-date most impressions have been from mediocre solid-state amplifiers.
> 
> For me personally I'd probably take the Utopia's slightly iffy midrange over the upper-midrange/treble issues of the SR-009 (among other problems with the latter). I don't doubt that a $6k amplifier+headphone pairing built around the Utopia might trounce an equally-expensive system tailored around the SR-009. SR-007 is another story of course.


 
  
 Probably you are right that there would be people who would be fine with that, but not for me (that's why I expressed it as I have a Stax-head).
  
 I have spent 2 years on trying the fix the beryllium sound on my speakers (it was worth, so good they were otherwise), and I've found a pretty good solution, but based on that experience I highly doubt I want to go into similar direction with the Focal Utopia. That cannot be fixed completely, it is not only a notch or peak issue, it is a hardness problem (which has to do with the structure of the harmonics). The 009 indeed has a frequency problem around 4 kHz, but it's not a hardness problem. I made a simple mod to the 009 ear pads that fixed the 4kHz problem (and improved the bass), but in the end I have undone it since I felt the original design had a valid point.


----------



## TheAttorney

zolkis said:


> I made a simple mod to the 009 ear pads that fixed the 4kHz problem (and improved the bass), but in the end I have undone it since I felt the original design had a valid point.


 
 Could you elaborate on that?
 I think what you're saying is that, overall, you prefer the un-modded version - even if it is tonally not as correct as you're modded version.
  
 I ask because I was about to search up on your mod - this after my earlier findings that equalizers can do more harm than good.
 The lazy part of me says just leave well alone.


----------



## 3X0

zolkis said:


> Probably you are right that there would be people who would be fine with that, but not for me (that's why I expressed it as I have a Stax-head).
> I have spent 2 years on trying the fix the beryllium sound on my speakers (it was worth, so good they were otherwise), and I've found a pretty good solution, but based on that experience I highly doubt I want to go into similar direction with the Focal Utopia. That cannot be fixed completely, it is not only a notch or peak issue, it is a hardness problem (which has to do with the structure of the harmonics). The 009 indeed has a frequency problem around 4 kHz, but it's not a hardness problem. I made a simple mod to the 009 ear pads that fixed the 4kHz problem (and improved the bass), but in the end I have undone it since I felt the original design had a valid point.


 
 Fair point. It's interesting you mention harmonics as I find the representation (sometimes lack thereof) of string harmonics, percussion decay and spatial cues on the 009 to be problematic. Relative to the Omega I found that it traded away too much fine resolution for the sake of macrodetail and I have to wonder if this extends vis-a-vis the 007 as well.
  
 I can't say how the Utopia compares in these respects given I've only experienced it in meet conditions, but it would not be difficult to surpass the 009 in these qualities.


----------



## zolkis

3x0 said:


> Fair point. It's interesting you mention harmonics as I find the representation (sometimes lack thereof) of string harmonics, percussion decay and spatial cues on the 009 to be problematic. Relative to the Omega I found that it traded away too much fine resolution for the sake of macrodetail and I have to wonder if this extends vis-a-vis the 007 as well.


 
  
 I understand where are you coming from . My experience with the SR-Ω was quite short, but I get the point. Now imagine I felt the same with the Utopia vs the 009 .
  
 As to the 007 vs the SR-Ω comparison, that is something I plan to do more properly (there is no contest the Ω is better in stock form, but my modded 007 Mk1 sounds unbelievably good -- I need to update the mods thread).
  
  


theattorney said:


> Could you elaborate on that?
> I think what you're saying is that, overall, you prefer the un-modded version - even if it is tonally not as correct as you're modded version.


 
  
 Quite the contrary, I felt that even if the original had a frequency peak, the pitch and tone and harmonic structure of instruments was more natural and more true to the timbre than with the more fun sounding mods. That was apparent with classical and instrumental music of course, since other genres sounded better with the mods. 
  
 If you're lazy to look up what the mod was: I replaced the 4mm thick white foam disk in the earpad stuffing with a wool felt disk.
 An easier version of the mod (that doesn't require any disassembly) the following: cut a crescent moon shaped piece of thin (2-4 mm) foam or felt, about 15-20 mm wide at the center and about as long as the half circumference; place it under the pads on the back side of the ear (i.w. making the pads higher and more angled). Experiment with multiple densities (the less density and the more rigidity, the better).


----------



## JimL11

3x0 said:


> It costs $3k+ in amplification to drive Stax at/near TOTL levels.
> 
> There may be some ~$1k amplifier pairings for the Utopia that might upset the value proposition.
> 
> I wasn't overly enthused with the Utopia at first listen but I wouldn't be surprised if most of the blame was upstream of the transducers.


 

 It cost me considerably less than $1000 (likely less than $500)  to build my SRX Plus amp, and I consider it close to TOTL with my Stax SR007 Mk II phones with port mod.


----------



## 3X0

jiml11 said:


> It cost me considerably less than $1000 (likely less than $500)  to build my SRX Plus amp, and I consider it close to TOTL with my Stax SR007 Mk II phones with port mod.


 
 While this cost comparison might be appropriate for a more DIY-centric community, I don't think this is a fair assessment unless a SRX-Plus can be purchased or commissioned anywhere close to this amount.
  
 Can't discredit the prospect of the SRX-Plus performance (having not yet heard one), but I do know the 009 + HV is not TOTL by my standards. For the same $5-6k street I think it would be possible to eke something preferable out of the Utopia.


----------



## Keithpgdrb

anyone else get an email from Sergo9?


----------



## JimL11

3x0 said:


> While this cost comparison might be appropriate for a more DIY-centric community, I don't think this is a fair assessment unless a SRX-Plus can be purchased or commissioned anywhere close to this amount.
> 
> Can't discredit the prospect of the SRX-Plus performance (having not yet heard one), but I do know the 009 + HV is not TOTL by my standards. For the same $5-6k street I think it would be possible to eke something preferable out of the Utopia.


 

 Well, I don't consider the SRX-Plus TOTL but in your original post you stated "at/near TOTL" and I would consider it to fit in that broader category.  Now to be clear, I consider the KGST, KGSSHV to be in near TOTL level, and the KGSS Carbon,BHSE, Megatron and DIY T2 in the TOTL category.  I haven't heard any of them except for a maxxed out KGST so I am going by internet reputation (I know, I know), which is partly why I am lumping in relatively broad categories rather than trying to make fine distinctions.


----------



## MacedonianHero

yates7592 said:


> How do you rate bass on Utopia vs 009?


 
  
 I own both and would put them at the very top of my collection. If there ever was a headphone that would displace my SR-009s, it might very well be the Utopias. That said, my SR-009s aren't going anywhere as their speed and detail retrieval is still just slightly ahead. Tonally, the Utopias hit all the right notes. Love them both actually! My SR-007Mk1's are just below these two headphones. Actually I'd put the LCD-4 and HE-1000V2 ahead of them too. YMMV of course


----------



## sensui123

I don't miss lcd 3/4 with sr007 mk1....either out the carbon or the bhse.


----------



## litleGrasshoper

3x0 said:


> Even if the midrange hardness is intrinsic to the drivers it can be ameliorated via amplification unless it's caused by the housing or resonances. FWIW some type of coloration in the midrange does indeed seem to be a common impression among those that have heard the Utopia (myself included) but I believe to-date most impressions have been from mediocre solid-state amplifiers.
> 
> For me personally I'd probably take the Utopia's slightly iffy midrange over the upper-midrange/treble issues of the SR-009 (among other problems with the latter). I don't doubt that a $6k amplifier+headphone pairing built around the Utopia might trounce an equally-expensive system tailored around the SR-009. SR-007 is another story of course.


 

is it not coloration in the midrange desired? Coloration is what makes he90 better than omega.


----------



## zolkis

macedonianhero said:


> If there ever was a headphone that would displace my SR-009s, it might very well be the Utopias. That said, my SR-009s aren't going anywhere as their speed and detail retrieval is still just slightly ahead. Tonally, the Utopias hit all the right notes. Love them both actually! My SR-007Mk1's are just below these two headphones. Actually I'd put the LCD-4 and HE-1000V2 ahead of them too. YMMV of course


 
 All these headphones I consider very good . I wonder how would you compare the HE1000 v2 to your 007 Mk1 (or Mk2), or send a link if you've already done that. I have only heard the HEK v1, and while it's very pleasant sounding, it still had a hardness in the upper mids the 007's did not have. 
  
 Actually it would be very useful if you could do the 007 Mk1 mods (actually 2 levels of them), and report the findings. I've been doing some headphone measurements to check the mods sanity, but feedback from others is the most valuable. I will update the mods thread soon, just saying they are reversible, but require some work.


----------



## TheAttorney

zolkis said:


> If you're lazy to look up what the mod was: I replaced the 4mm thick white foam disk in the earpad stuffing with a wool felt disk.
> An easier version of the mod (that doesn't require any disassembly) the following: cut a crescent moon shaped piece of thin (2-4 mm) foam or felt, about 15-20 mm wide at the center and about as long as the half circumference; place it under the pads on the back side of the ear (i.w. making the pads higher and more angled). Experiment with multiple densities (the less density and the more rigidity, the better).


 
 I've already done the crescent shaped mod to my 009's rear half a long time ago. At the time, it was as much to do with moving the phones a bit further from my ears, but I thought I heard a slight improvement in SQ as well, although I didn't do A/B swaps to be sure. Are you saying this particular mod does specifically help reduce the 4khz hump? 
  
 Regarding the 009 v Utopia question, my demo of this and other TOTL headphones keeps getting postponed because the dealer can't get a demo Utopia by the expected dates. Apparently, some people are buying these without even listening to them, so those lucky/rich so and so's  are jumping ahead of me. .


----------



## zolkis

theattorney said:


> I've already done the crescent shaped mod to my 009's rear half a long time ago. At the time, it was as much to do with moving the phones a bit further from my ears, but I thought I heard a slight improvement in SQ as well, although I didn't do A/B swaps to be sure. Are you saying this particular mod does specifically help reduce the 4khz hump?


 
  
 My mod had, but it depends on the material you have used. If you don't have a measurement rig, you can try using an EQ to determine whether it has helped with yours (or bright piano recordings).


----------



## mtoc

DHT amp which has not been published yet really is more than $18K in parts? Which is it?


----------



## 3X0

litlegrasshoper said:


> is it not coloration in the midrange desired? Coloration is what makes he90 better than omega.


 
 Different types of coloration. The HE90 has a certain richness rather than hardness.
  
 Don't really agree WRT HE90 vs. Omega but I don't have an Aristaeus (yet). I wonder how the SRX-Plus would do actually...


----------



## MacedonianHero

zolkis said:


> All these headphones I consider very good . I wonder how would you compare the HE1000 v2 to your 007 Mk1 (or Mk2), or send a link if you've already done that. I have only heard the HEK v1, and while it's very pleasant sounding, it still had a hardness in the upper mids the 007's did not have.
> 
> Actually it would be very useful if you could do the 007 Mk1 mods (actually 2 levels of them), and report the findings. I've been doing some headphone measurements to check the mods sanity, but feedback from others is the most valuable. I will update the mods thread soon, just saying they are reversible, but require some work.


 
 I'm in the midst of reviewing the HE1000 V2. I haven't published anything yet....but I'm working on it.


----------



## Sorrodje

3x0 said:


> Different types of coloration. The HE90 has a certain richness rather than hardness.
> 
> Don't really agree WRT HE90 vs. Omega but I don't have an Aristaeus (yet). I wonder how the SRX-Plus would do actually...





You likely will know very soon. Crossed fingers!


----------



## mtoc

You would know very soon would be a more proper sentence.


----------



## Sorrodje

Fixed for something more accurate indeed


----------



## listen4joy

Anyone compared utopia to SR-009?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Side by side, no, but I'm a BHSE/SR-009 owner and did listen briefly to Utopia recently.
 Tonal balances and soundstage sound indeed very very close, but Utopia sounds more dry to me, with this so typical grain of electrodynamic drivers...knowing the less grainy ones for me are still HD800's.
 This dryness / kind of "correctness" makes Utopia sound very very quick BTW, and 009 are slower / blurrier on average amps like my ex modded 727 was (not the case with some BHSE).
  
 Meet conditions, so not favorable to e-dyn since you have to crank up the volume and reach their once again typical sreechiness in the high-mids / treble. I've tested them on humongous Viva Egoista amps, and no doubt I do prefer smoothness from the 2A3 version rather than straight amount of power from 845.
  
 YMMV, grain of salt, etc...will have better occasions to compare maybe in january.
  
 Ali


----------



## MacedonianHero

ali-pacha said:


> Side to side, no, but I'm a BHSE/SR-009 owner and did listen briefly to Utopia recently.
> Tonal balances and soundstage sound indeed very very close, but Utopia sounds more dry to me, with this so typical grain of electrodynamic drivers...knowing the less grainy ones for me are still HD800's.
> This dryness / kind of "correctness" makes Utopia sound very very quick BTW, and 009 are slower / blurrier on average amps like my ex modded 727 was (not the case with some BHSE).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I wouldn't say the Utopias are more dry. I would say the tonality of the Utopias is as spot on as I've come across. They are dynamic and transparent and likely the only headphones to come close to dethrone my SR-009s. Close, but my SR-009s aren't going anywhere. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I would actually say in terms of speed and detail retrieval, the SR-009s have it here. Both are awesome headphones and neither pair is going anywhere anytime soon.


----------



## Jones Bob

Just swapped out the ear pads on my SR-009, thought I would post a few pics. 

Starting


Unroll the earpad. Gives you more room to work in the interior.


Pull the dust screen


The earpad lip is sandwiched between the top black metal plate and the aluminum headphone body with 6 Phillips head screws. Unscrew each, 2 to 2-1/2 turns. 


Then you can pull the earpad lip from between. 


My plate was a little dirty.


Since I have OCD, cleaned with IPA.


Reverse for assembly. Tighten the screws criss cross like the lug nuts on your car. Snug the small screws, don't torque them like lug nuts.


----------



## JustinBieber

Where did you buy the pads? I heard Stax is strict about 009 spares and a receipt is needed to confirm the 009 is not grey market imported (pricejapan)


----------



## Jones Bob

Bought them a while back from Yama at STAX USA. He asked for the serial number. Cost me a small fortune as I bought from PriceJapan originally. 

Seems he has been reined in on STAX Earspeaker prices recently. That's a good thing.


----------



## Headzone

I kind of wish there would be "electrostatic cmoy" kind of option for New Stax users. Something basic for driving SR202-SR404 etc. I bet more people would have Stax if they wouldn't have to buy a bulky, expensive amplifier to go with them.


----------



## sarora

headzone said:


> I kind of wish there would be "electrostatic cmoy" kind of option for New Stax users. Something basic for driving SR202-SR404 etc. I bet more people would have Stax if they wouldn't have to buy a bulky, expensive amplifier to go with them.


 
  
 While I get your point, I think that's half the fun (if not more) with these things....we're not dealing with magnets anymore but a very simple principle (rudimentary, even) yet the fun is in the power to make unique amplifiers that push the bounds of power and allow an almost infinite amount of uniqueness from one pair of headphones.
  
 Electrostat's like the modern Stax's are unique: you buy the headphone which is priced reasonably for the most part in the sector, but then you get to take that and tune it with an amplifier. Sure, you can do that with dynamic and planar magnetics, but you don't get anywhere near the sheer customization potential you get with the Stax...and that's just based on the amps alone. Not to mention the thriving DIY community that is full of innovative engineers and designers that are working to propel even better designs...from the same headphone! It's expensive - yes - but it's a niche inside a high end market already.
  
 With that being said, there are cheap methods to amplify (and there are portable IEM-Stax setups too), but you just won't get the result that you should be getting...everyone is trying to push the limits and I think all the different sound profiles and signatures and end results we see reported from so many massive hand-built amplifiers for what amounts to a very "basic" headphone design (at the end of the day) is awesome  
  
 I think most (if not all) Stax users truly appreciate the engineering that goes into powering these cans and are very involved in the design/community.


----------



## labrat (Aug 12, 2018)

del


----------



## JimL11

headzone said:


> I kind of wish there would be "electrostatic cmoy" kind of option for New Stax users. Something basic for driving SR202-SR404 etc. I bet more people would have Stax if they wouldn't have to buy a bulky, expensive amplifier to go with them.


 

 Never going to happen.  Stat phones require high voltage bias and high voltage (with some current) amplifiers.  That is inevitably going to cost more.  The closest you can get are the Stax SRM001 and the SRM252.  I discount the Kingsound because I have not been at all impressed with the circuit designs of the Kingsound amps I have seen.


----------



## Tinkerer

headzone said:


> I kind of wish there would be "electrostatic cmoy" kind of option for New Stax users. Something basic for driving SR202-SR404 etc. I bet more people would have Stax if they wouldn't have to buy a bulky, expensive amplifier to go with them.


 
  
 That's pretty much what the old transformer boxes are for.


----------



## JimL11

tinkerer said:


> That's pretty much what the old transformer boxes are for.


 

 Good point!


----------



## Hauge

As for boxes...

 I have SRD6 and SRD7, for my Lambda pre Pro, but would really like to go active.
 Therefore my question.
 Wich diy's are the ones to throw parts after, when comes to normal bios??


----------



## Tinkerer

They can all be made to have a normal bias socket. You just attach a voltage divider circuit with a ballast resistor to the B+ rail of your PSU. As far as I've been able to tell, the rankings for normal bias among the amps are the exact same as with pro. Because it is the same amp at the end of the day.


----------



## zolkis

My 007 Mk2 is leaving to a friend and I am keeping the Mk1.
  
 Optimising the sound of the 007 Mk2 was orders of magnitude easier than for the Mk1: just take out the spring, don't do the port mod, and point the earpad sewing on the thinner part a bit upwards rather than forward or downwards. It sounds open, effortless, natural, fluid, tuneful, with good bass slam. It's just wonderful. It also measures well (red line).
  
 Although I like the modded Mk2 a lot, and often prefer it to the Mk1, I am mesmerized by the modded 007 Mk1 mids and instrument realism (green line, at lower volume) - but the mod is not that easy. Note that the bass measurement below 40-50 Hz is not to be taken seriously, as it depends on the coupler/seal to the measurement rig.
 The Mk1 and Mk2 have about similar bass, the Mk2 has more slam and the Mk1 extends more smoothly (ported vs non-ported). The Mk2 bass is more pleasant perhaps. The modded Mk1 mids sound out of this world in realism, but the Mk2 is very close. They have slightly different harmonic structure, but are within 2-5% of each other. All things considered, I wouldn't bother with the old Mk1, just get the Mk2 and take out the spring (2-5 minutes). And of course get a good tube amp.
  

  
 The port mod on the 007 Mk2 will reduce the bass a bit and make the CSD slightly cleaner, but makes the sound more constricted and with narrower sound stage, so I have undone it as fast as I could. Taking out the spring also resulted in slightly better measurements, but it sounded much better IMHO.
  
 Of course all statements need peer review, so... try it out .
  
 Now that my 007 Mk1 has left the 009 and the 007 Mk2 behind, it is ready to meet (and be defeated by?) the SR-Ω . Let's see when. I dream to organize a 009 vs SR-Ω vs 007 Mk1 shootout on BHSE, Aristaeus, and a yet to be named new tube amp (when I get it ready).


----------



## wuwhere

So I'm contemplating which is the best sounding amp for the 007 Mk1. Of these which is the best pairing with the 007 Mk1 as far as pure sound is concern? Most of the music I listen to are classic rock with vocals, female vocals, jazz, and piano concertos:  BHSE, KGSSHV Carbon, KGSSHV, Cavalli Liquid Lightning 2/2T, HeadAmp Aristaeus, other suggestions?


----------



## zolkis

For start, check this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/378843/aristaeus-vs-blue-hawaii
 Then make a search in this very forum - it has been discussed several times .


----------



## mulveling

BHSE or Carbon over Aristaeus / KGSShv for 007 mk 1, and by a significant margin. I haven't yet spent any time directly comparing BHSE vs Carbon on this headphone, but both amps are a great match for it. But then you 007-over-009 fellows are an odd lot


----------



## wuwhere

zolkis said:


> For start, check this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/378843/aristaeus-vs-blue-hawaii
> Then make a search in this very forum - it has been discussed several times .


 
  
 Thanks for the link. I actually already read that earlier. Looks like it needs some vintage tube rolling. I'm tube bias that's why I included it in the list.


----------



## wuwhere

From all the read, Carbon has the advantage overall, no warm up time like tubes. I'm curious as well about Cavalli's LL2. There was only one review I read about it.


----------



## jibzilla

mulveling said:


> BHSE or Carbon over Aristaeus / KGSShv for 007 mk 1, and by a significant margin. I haven't yet spent any time directly comparing BHSE vs Carbon on this headphone, but both amps are a great match for it. But then you 007-over-009 fellows are an odd lot


 
  
 I'm 009 over 007 but it really takes a tremendously good and usually expensive source and amp for the 009 to show off its superiority. There is also the issue of not having a good darker sounding dynamic headphone where the 007's have the bullet proof hd800's as well as r10's if you have deep pockets. The Lcd-X's are not bad but they are not the hd800's when well amped. The Elear may change that but the Utopia works in the 007's favor.  You could go 007/009 as a bright/dark combo but I like doing that with a stat/dynamic twist thrown in more


----------



## mulveling

wuwhere said:


> From all the read, Carbon has the advantage overall, no warm up time like tubes. I'm curious as well about Cavalli's LL2. There was only one review I read about it.



True the BHSE needs some warmup time on it; Carbon is quickly ready to go. That said, with 009 I prefer the BHSE by enough that it's well worth the warmup hassle.


----------



## Jones Bob

Did the Carbon you listened to have the upgraded GRLV power supply?


----------



## mulveling

jones bob said:


> Did the Carbon you listened to have the upgraded GRLV power supply?



Nope, GRHV only. Might very well be relevant to these comparisons. But I really love my BHSE.


----------



## wuwhere

Are there Carbon builders out there?


----------



## astrostar59

wuwhere said:


> Are there Carbon builders out there?


 

 Ask over at the 'other place' I would say you will get a response if you are after a builder.


----------



## paradoxper

JUMP
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/823384/fs-diy-blue-hawaii-se-electrostatic-headphone-amp


----------



## wuwhere

astrostar59 said:


> Ask over at the 'other place' I would say you will get a response if you are after a builder.


 
  
 Thanks.


----------



## wuwhere

paradoxper said:


> JUMP
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/823384/fs-diy-blue-hawaii-se-electrostatic-headphone-amp


 
  
 Saw that one, nice price.


----------



## Rossliew

paradoxper said:


> JUMP
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/823384/fs-diy-blue-hawaii-se-electrostatic-headphone-amp




Wonder how it sounds compared to the HeadAmp BHSE ?


----------



## wuwhere

rossliew said:


> Wonder how it sounds compared to the HeadAmp BHSE ?


 
  
 I asked him, he said the same as HeadAmp's BHSE.


----------



## purk

wuwhere said:


> I asked him, he said the same as HeadAmp's BHSE.


 
 The original builder was Natronice but John perfected it with the outboard power supply.  John knows his stuffs so this gotta to sound wonderful.  220V only obviously.


----------



## mulveling

wuwhere said:


> I asked him, he said the same as HeadAmp's BHSE.


 
 You asked the seller that? LOL. 
 Anyways, it probably does sound pretty great. Looks like a lot of care went into its build. And I'd almost certainly take a chance on it over a $4600 Carbon (4800 if you want a black finish). But a Head-amp BHSE is $2K+ worth of aesthetics ahead of that one.


----------



## wuwhere

purk said:


> The original builder was Natronice but John perfected it with the outboard power supply.  John knows his stuffs so this gotta to sound wonderful.  220V only obviously.


 
  
 Just unusual that the outboard power supply has a different exterior. I saw the pics of his Carbon build, very nice.
  


mulveling said:


> You asked the seller that? LOL.
> Anyways, it probably does sound pretty great. Looks like a lot of care went into its build. And I'd almost certainly take a chance on it over a $4600 Carbon (4800 if you want a black finish). But a Head-amp BHSE is $2K+ worth of aesthetics ahead of that one.


 
  
 I did, if its still available in a month, I might be interested. Just so far away.


----------



## Rossliew

Would this BHSE be tube rollable?


----------



## purk

rossliew said:


> Would this BHSE be tube rollable?


 
 Should be, but you will need to adjust the zero, offset on the trim pots.  You will likely will have to take the cover off to access that.  Can be done but not easy as the BHSE unit.   I would grab this if you can use 220 Voltage.


----------



## Rossliew

purk said:


> Should be, but you will need to adjust the zero, offset on the trim pots.  You will likely will have to take the cover off to access that.  Can be done but not easy as the BHSE unit.   I would grab this if you can use 220 Voltage.




Guess will have to check with the seller on the bias setting procedure. Would this be better off paired with an 007 or an 009?


----------



## purk

Meant to say "balanced" and "offset".  IMO, should be good with both depending on tube type I believe.  Why don't you contact the builder (johnwmclean)?  He didn't build the amp but the PSU.


----------



## jibzilla

purk said:


> Should be, but you will need to adjust the zero, offset on the trim pots.  You will likely will have to take the cover off to access that.  Can be done but not easy as the BHSE unit.   I would grab this if you can use 220 Voltage.


 
  
 At this level I would never let voltage get in the way. www.acupwr.com I use one with my kenwood kp-9010 which is 100v. Does a great job.


----------



## jibzilla

Much bigger issue than voltage imo is that it is located in Sydney. Good 3-6 month wait to see it in the States. Auspost is terrible.


----------



## Rossliew

purk said:


> Meant to say "balanced" and "offset".  IMO, should be good with both depending on tube type I believe.  Why don't you contact the builder (johnwmclean)?  He didn't build the amp but the PSU.




Ah ok I've seen John's carbon build at the other site and it's a beauty.


----------



## purk

Sorry it is late here.  Not tube type....NOS  tubes vs. new stuff.


----------



## Spork67

jibzilla said:


> Much bigger issue than voltage imo is that it is located in Sydney. Good 3-6 month wait to see it in the States. Auspost is terrible.


 
 I've bought plenty of stuff from OS and it's usually  < 1 week from arriving in Australia until delivery to my door. Is AustPost really that bad in the other direction?


----------



## thinker

Got the Aristaeus ,i bought this amp because it matches my furnitures
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and the reason why i didn't decide for BHSE so my expectations were not very high.I use Omega with this amp and some Lambdas.Found out that the amp needs at least 30min to warm up to perform at it's best.I was very suprised how this amp matches Omega just perfect ,very airy not strident rather detailed warm airy presentation.I'm not a slam fanboy and those who like it should look elsewhere.Aristaeus/ Omega is natural and quite neutral with average dynamics very colored in good way, it shows all those small nuances of vocals and instruments.The presentation is very very liguid and easy and you can listen hours without fatique .Thanks to Justin and Head-Amp.


----------



## lojay

thinker said:


> Got the Aristaeus ,i bought this amp because it matches my furnitures:blink: and the reason why i didn't decide for BHSE so my expectations were not very high.I use Omega with this amp and some Lambdas.Found out that the amp needs at least 30min to warm up to perform at it's best.I was very suprised how this amp matches Omega just perfect ,very airy not strident rather detailed warm airy presentation.I'm not a slam fanboy and those who like it should look elsewhere.


How does the Omega compare with the HE90?


----------



## wuwhere

purk said:


> Sorry it is late here.  Not tube type....NOS  tubes vs. new stuff.


 
  
 The legendary NOS 1960's XF2 Mullard EL34 are like $200 a piece but should last about 10K hours. Still available.


----------



## bmichels

wuwhere said:


> The legendary NOS 1960's XF2 Mullard EL34 are like $200 a piece but should last about 10K hours. Still available.


 
  
 Are all the el34 xf2 " double o getter " ?  or are there variations without the " double o getter " ?


----------



## mulveling

No, there are definitely single-halo xf2. The double-halo variant are going to be earlier vintage, say 60s vs. late 60s to early 70s. As with most tube types, almost all of the changes in later vintages can be seen as cost-cutting measures (e.g. welded plates to stapled, complex dual getters to single halos, metal bases to brown bases to black bases, copper grid posts to steel, black or silver plates to gray plates, etc), as cost effectiveness took precedence over absolute quality. Sometimes this matters a lot, sometimes not so much. I've found the quality of Mullard EL34 tubes into the 1970s to be excellent so far. Whereas with Sylvania small signal tubes, the sound quality seems to have gone all to hell after the 1950s.


----------



## bmichels

Thanks. And does the double-halo xf2 versions sound better than the single halo version ?


----------



## mulveling

bmichels said:


> Thanks. And does the double-halo xf2 versions sound better than the single halo version ?


 
 LOL, man just buy a set already.


----------



## jibzilla

spork67 said:


> I've bought plenty of stuff from OS and it's usually  < 1 week from arriving in Australia until delivery to my door. Is AustPost really that bad in the other direction?


 
  
 It is really bad. DHL Germany holds the record at 9 months. I actually got a refund on the DHL Germany for a 2oz. cartridge that I paid $60 shipping on, then it showed up 6 months later. I was nice about it and sent it back to them. I have ordered from OS 3 times and the earliest was 3 months and latest 6 months. Travels by boat. The second kick in the nuts your going to get is that it will most likely cost $300-600 to ship.
  
 I catch some flac for DHL Germany but I have ordered from them 3 times as well and just as horrible. I never catch flac for Auspost. That seems to have been known for a while. Justin can build you a bhse before Auspost will get you this one.


----------



## thinker

lojay said:


> How does the Omega compare with the HE90?


 

 I listened several years with HE-90 but thought many times why it doesn't touch my soul nerves ,i think the same problem is with the new Orpheus 2 nice but not touching in any way and the same problem again with HD-800 not touching at all .I prefer Omega to HE-90 in many ways altough it has a neutral presentation it has a "touching soul" attribute, but 009 doesn't have it and neither do 02 have it but Sigma Pro has it one of the best headphones with right amplification.I have had 5 Sigma Pro's and all sounded slightly different.I find the Omega to be better than HE-90 in many ways more detail and resolution even more neutrality combined with this "touching" element.I don't find Omega lacks anything in midrange against Orpheus the Omega is so resolving that it needs right amplification .Yes i'm happy with Omega/ Aristaeus it isn't perfect but touches my soul and that's my number one criteria.


----------



## Hauge

Thank You for the answer! But what about the peak to peak voltage? Is that the same with "normal" and "Pro" bios? - Really wouldn't like to toast my good old SR-Lambdas, as they are simply to good to jeopardise!


----------



## Hauge

tinkerer said:


> They can all be made to have a normal bias socket. You just attach a voltage divider circuit with a ballast resistor to the B+ rail of your PSU. As far as I've been able to tell, the rankings for normal bias among the amps are the exact same as with pro. Because it is the same amp at the end of the day.


 
 Above post is another question to this post...


----------



## kevin gilmore

So the bit about normal bias is not exactly true.
  
 Back then when stax amps had both a regular and pro bias, the power supplies were limited to about +/-300 to +/-350V
  
 So with a regular bias of about 260V, you could just barely with the volume cranked to the max overdrive the diaphragm.
 As any voltage swing that reverses the direction of the bias long term is a bad thing.
  
 With some amplifiers these days with 500V power supplies, you can overdrive regular bias headphones pretty easily.
  
 people with transformer boxes could very easily overdrive the headphones with holes in the diaphragm as a result.
  
 And then there is the bit that for regular bias headphones you also need a 6 pin jack.


----------



## wuwhere

jibzilla said:


> It is really bad. DHL Germany holds the record at 9 months. I actually got a refund on the DHL Germany for a 2oz. cartridge that I paid $60 shipping on, then it showed up 6 months later. I was nice about it and sent it back to them. I have ordered from OS 3 times and the earliest was 3 months and latest 6 months. Travels by boat. The second kick in the nuts your going to get is that it will most likely cost $300-600 to ship.
> 
> I catch some flac for DHL Germany but I have ordered from them 3 times as well and just as horrible. I never catch flac for Auspost. That seems to have been known for a while. Justin can build you a bhse before Auspost will get you this one.


 
  
 It will be expensive, I bet, but it can be air shipped through FedEx. (https://www.fedex.com/ratefinder/home?cc=au&language=en)


----------



## zolkis

thinker said:


> I listened several years with HE-90 but thought many times why it doesn't touch my soul nerves ,i think the same problem is with the new Orpheus 2 nice but not touching in any way and the same problem again with HD-800 not touching at all .I prefer Omega to HE-90 in many ways altough it has a neutral presentation it has a "touching soul" attribute, but 009 doesn't have it and neither do 02 have it but Sigma Pro has it one of the best headphones with right amplification.I have had 5 Sigma Pro's and all sounded slightly different.I find the Omega to be better than HE-90 in many ways more detail and resolution even more neutrality combined with this "touching" element.I don't find Omega lacks anything in midrange against Orpheus the Omega is so resolving that it needs right amplification .Yes i'm happy with Omega/ Aristaeus it isn't perfect but touches my soul and that's my number one criteria.




Wow, one can replace a thousand pages of forum guesswork with this one post. Very useful, even if admittedly subjective. 

I can relate to this description, and have somewhat similar experience with the Orpheus and 009, whereas the Omega - and to perhaps lesser extent also my modded 007 mk1 - do something that is hard to describe with words, but touches something in me right from the first notes played.


----------



## jibzilla

wuwhere said:


> It will be expensive, I bet, but it can be air shipped through FedEx. (https://www.fedex.com/ratefinder/home?cc=au&language=en)


 
  
 Ooh, I might get this then.


----------



## purk

thinker said:


> Got the Aristaeus ,i bought this amp because it matches my furnitures
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I love mine too...but I'm using the Aristaeus with the HE90 & SR009.  I still prefer my Aristaeus over the KGST but not over the BHSE or Carbon driving the SR009 & SR007.  With the HE90, it is quite a magic combo but I still like my T2 with the HE90 paring better.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

thinker said:


> I listened several years with HE-90 but thought many times why it doesn't touch my soul nerves ,i think the same problem is with the new Orpheus 2 nice but not touching in any way and the same problem again with HD-800 not touching at all .I prefer Omega to HE-90 in many ways altough it has a neutral presentation it has a "touching soul" attribute, but 009 doesn't have it and neither do 02 have it but Sigma Pro has it one of the best headphones with right amplification.I have had 5 Sigma Pro's and all sounded slightly different.I find the Omega to be better than HE-90 in many ways more detail and resolution even more neutrality combined with this "touching" element.I don't find Omega lacks anything in midrange against Orpheus the Omega is so resolving that it needs right amplification .Yes i'm happy with Omega/ Aristaeus it isn't perfect but touches my soul and that's my number one criteria.


 
 I've never listened to HE90 nor Omega 1 (I'd say unfortunately), but out of my BHSE, Sigma Pro are way simpler than 007mk1, not to say 009. They are cans for relaxing acoustic music I've to say, too much midbass hump with electric / electronic music, and not as accurate as 007/009.
 I'd really love to get my hands on some Omega 1 one day, but they are too rare and too expensive for me considering durability / reliability issues. Maybe one day Stax will release a new Omega, the ones to rule them all, unifying under the same ring flag 009 lovers as well as 007 and Omega 1 lovers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## purk

ali-pacha said:


> I've never listened to HE90 nor Omega 1 (I'd say unfortunately), but out of my BHSE, Sigma Pro are way simpler than 007mk1, not to say 009. They are cans for relaxing acoustic music I've to say, too much midbass hump with electric / electronic music, and not as accurate as 007/009.
> I'd really love to get my hands on some Omega 1 one day, but they are too rare and too expensive for me considering durability / reliability issues. Maybe one day Stax will release a new Omega, the ones to rule them all, unifying under the same ring flag 009 lovers as well as 007 and Omega 1 lovers
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hopefully so.  I hope they will build a really good amp so they can test their new flagship that can perform even better.  Heck, they should just build the Carbon & BH to test with their new headphones.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

There's one thing I miss from Stax : a SRM-252s with both pro and normal bias output.
 Ok, I could have class D/T + SRD-7 mk2 (SB or not), and SRM-1/mk2 Pro, but those are too big and too heavy...
  
 Ali


----------



## 3X0

thinker said:


> I listened several years with HE-90 but thought many times why it doesn't touch my soul nerves ,i think the same problem is with the new Orpheus 2 nice but not touching in any way and the same problem again with HD-800 not touching at all .I prefer Omega to HE-90 in many ways altough it has a neutral presentation it has a "touching soul" attribute, but 009 doesn't have it and neither do 02 have it but Sigma Pro has it one of the best headphones with right amplification.I have had 5 Sigma Pro's and all sounded slightly different.I find the Omega to be better than HE-90 in many ways more detail and resolution even more neutrality combined with this "touching" element.I don't find Omega lacks anything in midrange against Orpheus the Omega is so resolving that it needs right amplification .Yes i'm happy with Omega/ Aristaeus it isn't perfect but touches my soul and that's my number one criteria.


 
 Out of the T2 I can't think of a single thing the HE90 does better than the Omega. I've heard a positive impression of the Aristaeus + Omega in the past, but it's nice to see it reinforced. Interestingly I wasn't crazy about the Omega out of the BHSE.


----------



## lojay

3x0 said:


> Out of the T2 I can't think of a single thing the HE90 does better than the Omega. I've heard a positive impression of the Aristaeus + Omega in the past, but it's nice to see it reinforced. Interestingly I wasn't crazy about the Omega out of the BHSE.


 
  
 If not for the fact that Omegas are impossible to be repaired with the original drivers, I would have bought one. But there seems to be no unanimous view** on whether one prefers the Omega to the HE90 (or the SR009 for that matter), the HE90 being (according to what I've read) a more coloured headphone. What sort of music do you play and what do you like about the HE90, if anything? Also, when you used the HE90 out of the T2 did you lower the bias to 500V?
  
 Edit**: 3X0, perhaps I should stand corrected, but you might be the only active HF member who presently has the HE90, Omega and DIY T2!


----------



## thinker

ali-pacha said:


> I've never listened to HE90 nor Omega 1 (I'd say unfortunately), but out of my BHSE, Sigma Pro are way simpler than 007mk1, not to say 009. They are cans for relaxing acoustic music I've to say, too much midbass hump with electric / electronic music, and not as accurate as 007/009.
> I'd really love to get my hands on some Omega 1 one day, but they are too rare and too expensive for me considering durability / reliability issues. Maybe one day Stax will release a new Omega, the ones to rule them all, unifying under the same ring flag 009 lovers as well as 007 and Omega 1 lovers
> 
> 
> ...


 

 There are two versions of Sigma Pro's one wich is muffled and reminds of the earlier Sigma normal bias and then there is a quite clear Pro non muffled version wich soundstage is phenomenal.The clear Pro version separates piano notes from mid to lower notes better than any phone i have heard and as a bonus it has the the most realistic piano tone.Certainly there are some parts in presentation wich could be better.


----------



## richard51

thinker said:


> There are two versions of Sigma Pro's one wich is muffled and reminds of the earlier Sigma normal bias and then there is a quite clear Pro non muffled version wich soundstage is phenomenal.The clear Pro version separates piano notes from mid to lower notes better than any phone i have heard and as a bonus it has the the most realistic piano tone.Certainly there are some parts in presentation wich could be better.


 
 How do we recognize which one is the better?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

thinker said:


> There are two versions of Sigma Pro's one wich is muffled and reminds of the earlier Sigma normal bias and then there is a quite clear Pro non muffled version wich soundstage is phenomenal.The clear Pro version separates piano notes from mid to lower notes better than any phone i have heard and as a bonus it has the the most realistic piano tone.Certainly there are some parts in presentation wich could be better.


 

 I don't know where my unit stands, but it's not muffled at all, only very (very bumpy) in the midbass. The Lambda Signature (which I own as well) drivers are quite there, and those ugly cans are indeed designed for piano and vocals.
  
 Ali


----------



## thinker

richard51 said:


> How do we recognize which one is the better?


 

 I have had one Sigma normal bias and five Sigma Pro's and two of the Pro versions were slightly muffled.I don't recall the S/N and appearance was identical .I used to remove the cloth and stick my ears deep in the earcups.


----------



## 3X0

lojay said:


> If not for the fact that Omegas are impossible to be repaired with the original drivers, I would have bought one. But there seems to be no unanimous view** on whether one prefers the Omega to the HE90 (or the SR009 for that matter), the HE90 being (according to what I've read) a more coloured headphone. What sort of music do you play and what do you like about the HE90, if anything? Also, when you used the HE90 out of the T2 did you lower the bias to 500V?
> 
> Edit**: 3X0, perhaps I should stand corrected, but you might be the only active HF member who presently has the HE90, Omega and DIY T2!


 
 I can characterize the HE90 out of the T2 as having a euphonic, rich midrange (lends a nice "glowing" quality to vocals and string harmonics), extremely diffuse imaging and weak lower-bass response. It works reasonably well with acoustic, orchestral and opera pieces but I find it sorely lacking for rock, jazz or electronic mostly due to the anemic bass response. The imprecise imaging is quite noticeable as sounds appear to emanate out of nowhere; the specific images remain relatively well-defined and easily separated from one another but their positioning is all over the place. The Omega in comparison renders diffuse staging but its positioning is much more clear with performers easily distinguished from one another and accurately placed both horizontally and vertically. The Omega's midrange is relatively neutral but has such presence and fine resolution that it is hardly lacking even relative to the HE90's euphonic richness. The real area where the Omega destroys the HE90 is in the bass response -- it extends lower than the HE90 (and 009 for that matter) with comparatively massive power and slam quite unlike any other electrostatic system I've experienced. The Omega does have a very slight hump in the bass that adds to the perceived impact and is tastefully rendered -- I haven't found it to detract from anything.
  
 My T2 has 500V bias voltage on one of the sockets, but I'm running a Stax Pro -> HEV90 female adapter from that socket with an inline 4M7 ballast resistor. Not sure how this arrangement would differ from @purk's (native HEV90 socket on his T2) in practical performance.
  
 It's also worth noting that similar to the immediate discourse re: Sigma Pros sounding different from one another, there are some anecdotes here and there about different units of the HE(V)90 sounding different as well -- something to keep in mind. Unlike the common sentiment I enjoyed the HE90 quite a bit out of the BHSE.
  
 I also think the fabled Aristaeus/HEV90 + HE90 is actually a much more commonly-experienced system than the "equivalent" T2 + Omega. It seems barely anyone has actually heard the latter (even with the production-variant T2) compared to many cited experiences with the classic Orpheus system. It's truly a shame as for me the T2 elevates the Omega to a level well beyond even rather capable amplifiers like the BHSE and Carbon, although I would like to experience the Aristaeus someday.


----------



## astrostar59

3x0 said:


> I can characterize the HE90 out of the T2 as having a euphonic, rich midrange (lends a nice "glowing" quality to vocals and string harmonics), extremely diffuse imaging and weak lower-bass response. It works reasonably well with acoustic, orchestral and opera pieces but I find it sorely lacking for rock, jazz or electronic mostly due to the anemic bass response. The imprecise imaging is quite noticeable as sounds appear to emanate out of nowhere; the specific images remain relatively well-defined and easily separated from one another but their positioning is all over the place.


 
 Interesting. I wonder if that is so, why all the years of hype over the HE90, unless it is a system synergy thing when used with the partnering amp. Though I also read over at the other place that amp is nothing special.
  
 Maybe things have moved on somewhat. I think this is all good for the audio fans, more choice of high end HPs in both Planars and Stats.
 So, yeah, I get the negatives of some over the 3K+ prices but I am positive about it TBH. It just means you need to pick your phone carefully, Abyss, Focal, LCD, HE1000 or Stax 009. Then audio nirvana is possible.


----------



## nemomec

I have also sold my Sennheiser Orpheus system after a long time direct comparison with Stax SR-007 MK1, SR-Omega and SR-009. I think the HE-90 has a to heavy coloured midrange and is not so clean and transparent like the Stax headphones. But i think he is very good for classical music like his heavy underated little brother Sennheiser HE-60. The gap betwen HE-60 and HE-90 is not so big (don´t use this poor HEV70 amp!). For other music genres i prefer the Stax headphones they are more flexible.
 
My final decision after the "big electrostatic headphone challenge": I would take only for classical music the Sennheiser HE-60 or HE-90 and for any others the Stax SR-007 MK1, SR-Omega, SR-L700 or SR-009. If i must choose only one headphone i would prefer the Stax SR-009 on a serios amp and source.


----------



## hardpike

nemomec said:


> I have also sold my Sennheiser Orpheus system after a long time direct comparison with Stax SR-007 MK1, SR-Omega and SR-009. I think the HE-90 has a to heavy coloured midrange and is not so clean and transparent like the Stax headphones. But i think he is very good for classical music like his heavy underated little brother Sennheiser HE-60. The gap betwen HE-60 and HE-90 is not so big (don´t use this poor HEV70 amp!). For other music genres i prefer the Stax headphones they are more flexible.
> 
> My final decision after the "big electrostatic headphone challenge": I would take only for classical music the Sennheiser HE-60 or HE-90 and for any others the Stax SR-007 MK1, SR-Omega, SR-L700 or SR-009. If i must choose only one headphone i would prefer the Stax SR-009 on a serios amp and source.



Thanks for this great summary.
How does the L-700 compares with the big buck guys?
Its the only one that I can seriously think to buy.
Currently own lambda normal bias and sr-207


----------



## lojay

3x0 said:


> I can characterize the HE90 out of the T2 as having a euphonic, rich midrange (lends a nice "glowing" quality to vocals and string harmonics), extremely diffuse imaging and weak lower-bass response. It works reasonably well with acoustic, orchestral and opera pieces but I find it sorely lacking for rock, jazz or electronic mostly due to the anemic bass response. The imprecise imaging is quite noticeable as sounds appear to emanate out of nowhere; the specific images remain relatively well-defined and easily separated from one another but their positioning is all over the place. The Omega in comparison renders diffuse staging but its positioning is much more clear with performers easily distinguished from one another and accurately placed both horizontally and vertically. The Omega's midrange is relatively neutral but has such presence and fine resolution that it is hardly lacking even relative to the HE90's euphonic richness. The real area where the Omega destroys the HE90 is in the bass response -- it extends lower than the HE90 (and 009 for that matter) with comparatively massive power and slam quite unlike any other electrostatic system I've experienced. The Omega does have a very slight hump in the bass that adds to the perceived impact and is tastefully rendered -- I haven't found it to detract from anything.


 
 I listen almost exclusively to classical and acoustic pieces. I find the bass of my HE90 anemic but for the type of music I listen to it does not bother me. How does the Omega and HE90 compare in relation to classical music?


----------



## purk

lojay said:


> I listen almost exclusively to classical and acoustic pieces. I find the bass of my HE90 anemic but for the type of music I listen to it does not bother me. How does the Omega and HE90 compare in relation to classical music?


 
 Out of my T2, I don't find the bass anemic at all.  In fact, I am finding it just right.  Bass quantity out of the T2 is actually on par with the Aristaeus but with better sheer resolution & much better soundstage depth.


----------



## 3X0

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. I wonder if that is so, why all the years of hype over the HE90, unless it is a system synergy thing when used with the partnering amp. Though I also read over at the other place that amp is nothing special.
> 
> Maybe things have moved on somewhat. I think this is all good for the audio fans, more choice of high end HPs in both Planars and Stats.
> So, yeah, I get the negatives of some over the 3K+ prices but I am positive about it TBH. It just means you need to pick your phone carefully, Abyss, Focal, LCD, HE1000 or Stax 009. Then audio nirvana is possible.


 
 At the very least Sennheiser has significantly more brand recognition than Stax does (latter being a niche within a niche) and Sennheiser was actively bringing Orpheus systems to trade shows well into the 2000s. Even at Stax HQ I doubt they have an operational T2 that can be demo'd by visitors let alone bringing combos to major events given how low-key their operations are.
  
 Some new headphones are nice but nothing beats the older stuff IMHO. SR-Omega, HE90 and R10 are all in a class of their own. Also consider that in the early 90s these designs were made as cost-no-object statement products and that our ability to enjoy them (through means of better sources and amplification) have improved _significantly_ since then.


lojay said:


> I listen almost exclusively to classical and acoustic pieces. I find the bass of my HE90 anemic but for the type of music I listen to it does not bother me. How does the Omega and HE90 compare in relation to classical music?


 
 I'm glad we're on the same page about bass response but it's difficult for me to say where the HE90 stands vs. the Omega in classical music since much of it will come down to the listener. The HE90 takes many liberties in its spatial portrayal (or lack thereof) that can sometimes provide a surreal experience, although the Omega certainly sounds more accurate through-and-through.
  
 It's probably easier for me to use the 009 as an index since we have that and the HE90 in common. The Omega sounds much more like the 009 but loses the upper-midrange/lower-treble emphasis, extends more in the sub-bass, and has significantly more expansive spatial positioning. The Omega sounds a little less "hifi"/clean vs. the 009 but is actually more resolving especially when it comes to harmonic information, spatial cues and decay (among other things). The differences are actually somewhat reminiscent of a good DS DAC vs. a great R2R DAC so with mild trepidation I'd posit 009:Omega:WD2::Yggdrasil.
  
 Besides using the 009 as a common anchoring point I liken the Omega to the cleanest/purest water available, and the HE90 as high-end orange juice (or maybe a fine red wine is more appropriate).
  
@purk, what is your honest assessment of the HE90's bass performance (depth, weight, texture, et al) versus the SR-009 out of the T2?


----------



## purk

3x0 said:


> At the very least Sennheiser has significantly more brand recognition than Stax does (latter being a niche within a niche) and Sennheiser was actively bringing Orpheus systems to trade shows well into the 2000s. Even at Stax HQ I doubt they have an operational T2 that can be demo'd by visitors let alone bringing combos to major events given how low-key their operations are.
> 
> Some new headphones are nice but nothing beats the older stuff IMHO. SR-Omega, HE90 and R10 are all in a class of their own. Also consider that in the early 90s these designs were made as cost-no-object statement products and that our ability to enjoy them (through means of better sources and amplification) have improved _significantly_ since then.
> I'm glad we're on the same page about bass response but it's difficult for me to say where the HE90 stands vs. the Omega in classical music since much of it will come down to the listener. The HE90 takes many liberties in its spatial portrayal (or lack thereof) that can sometimes provide a surreal experience, although the Omega certainly sounds more accurate through-and-through.
> ...


 
 Give me a couple of days as I have been quite busy as of late but I would put the SR009's bass to be stronger and deeper.  However, I'm more of an "over all presentation" kind of guy so I'm finding the bass of HE90 to be more than plenty especially out of the DIY T2 & Aristaeus.  You guys need to also recognize that I can live with the R10 despites its bass response so I'm not a bass head.  Honestly, I do wish that I have the Omega 1 myself.  This headphones was a companion headphones to the SRM-T2; thus, it has got to sound good or even better with the DIY T2.  BTW, the DIY T2 always able to bring out the best performance out of any electrostic phones that I have.  Totally agreed with SR--Omega, HE90, and R10 statement there.  I also like the SR009 & SR007 a whole lot too as well as the Qualia.


----------



## GU1DO

Hi ,,
  
 i just get  a new STAX 2170 and i like it very much but it lack the bass i need ,,
  
 i am looking for a change but not sure what to ,,
  
 my question is  : what is the best stax headphone that have great bass and sound stage ?
  
 my list for now : L700 or 007mk1
 (009 is out of my budget)
  
 any help is appreciated .. Thanks ..


----------



## Pokemonn

gu1do said:


> Hi ,,
> 
> i just get  a new STAX 2170 and i like it very much but it *lack the bass i need* ,,
> 
> any help is appreciated .. Thanks ..


 
  
 i recommend do EQ bass a bit. around +4db 50hz center.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/katzs-corner-great-headphone-shootout-part-5-revisions


----------



## Mach3

gu1do said:


> Hi ,,
> 
> i just get  a new STAX 2170 and i like it very much but it lack the bass i need ,,
> 
> ...


 
  
 I suggest you get the 3D printed adaptor and install the ZMF Oval Lambskin earpads to get your bass and soundstage fix.


----------



## astrostar59

Purk, how is your upgrade to the PS in your Carbon going? I am interested in your thoughts re difference with the LV boards and other bits.


----------



## purk

astrostar59 said:


> Purk, how is your upgrade to the PS in your Carbon going? I am interested in your thoughts re difference with the LV boards and other bits.


 
 Should get here early next week.  I'm up to date now on the KGSSHV Carbon realm.


----------



## Tinkerer

Somebody really needs to jack a GRLV into a 252S just to see what the improvement would be for fun.


----------



## GU1DO

pokemonn said:


> i recommend do EQ bass a bit. around +4db 50hz center.
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/katzs-corner-great-headphone-shootout-part-5-revisions


 
  
 That helped little bit ,, but still not enough . anyway thanks for the tip 


mach3 said:


> I suggest you get the 3D printed adaptor and install the ZMF Oval Lambskin earpads to get your bass and soundstage fix.


 
 i just ordered the 3D printed adapter and the ZMF Oval Lambskin ear-pads
 i hope you are right ,, it costed me around 85$


----------



## Pokemonn

gu1do said:


> pokemonn said:
> 
> 
> > i recommend do EQ bass a bit. around +4db 50hz center.
> ...


 
 you are welcome! FYI this is my current SR-009 EQer setting of audio equilibrim.
  


 bass +6db treble -7db this setting sound like ultra high end loudspeakers...


----------



## astrostar59

gu1do said:


> Hi ,,
> 
> i just get  a new STAX 2170 and i like it very much but it lack the bass i need ,,
> 
> ...


 

 Go for the 007A recent issue (new if possible). It is more transparent and faster than the previous MK2. It also has very good bass and is forgiving on many brighter DACs. If you needed more transparency from the 007 you can tweak the EQ around 6K and up. It is easier to tweak treble than the bass, as the bass energy is already close to 0db levels in the digital stream, and will result in instant digital clipping if bumped up even a tiny amount I have found.
  
 IMO the 007 and 009 and the only Stax phones to give a true bass response.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## astrostar59

pokemonn said:


> you are welcome! FYI this is my current SR-009 EQer setting of audio equilibrim.
> 
> 
> 
> bass +6db treble -7db this setting sound like ultra high end loudspeakers...


 
 Wow that is some adjustment. I run my 009 straight no EQ, but my speakers +2 db in the treble region. My DAC is a warm DAC and not a treble freak so may be the reason, no idea. But I doubt any bass boost will not result in clipping in the DAC.


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> Wow that is some adjustment. I run my 009 straight no EQ, but my speakers +2 db in the treble region. My DAC is a warm DAC and not a treble freak so may be the reason, no idea. But I doubt any bass boost will not result in clipping in the DAC.


 
 That's what I was going to say -- 6 and 7 db? Holy Schitt that's a lot of adjustment! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 On my Tannoys, the 1kHz+ crossover shelving adjustments are in 1.5dB increments, and even 1 move in either direction makes a very big difference!


----------



## Pokemonn

astrostar59 said:


> pokemonn said:
> 
> 
> > you are welcome! FYI this is my current SR-009 EQer setting of audio equilibrim.
> ...


 
 Yes..I'm mild bass head and treble sensitive. so this settings work for me. so YMMV. now I'm extremely happy with this EQ + 009.


----------



## zolkis

gu1do said:


> my question is  : what is the best stax headphone that have great bass and sound stage ?
> 
> my list for now : L700 or 007mk1
> (009 is out of my budget)


 
  
 The L700 has good deep bass, sound stage is big. It still has the "Lambda coloration" in the mids (slight nasal coloration/hardness in the upper mids, but only evident when compared to the 007 or 009).
 The 007 Mk2 (SZ3 series) is the same as the  007A apart from the color. They have better bass slam, better mids, more correct tones, and overall better sound than L700. Sound stage is huge. 
 The 007 Mk1 early series (hard to find) have less bass slam than 007 Mk2 SZ3, but somewhat better bass extension. Mids are more pronounced (and the 009 mids are even more pronounced). Sound stage is a bit narrower than 007 Mk2, but also depends on the headband setting. You need to personalize the 007 headband. I pressed in the middle of the headband (making it more straight) and increased the lateral angle inwards so that pressure is even on my head, but ever slightly more on the lower part (I wear glasses).
 A few pages back I posted some 007 measurements.
  
 I recommend you listen to the L700, and the 007 Mk2 or 007A SZ3 series.
  
 With time, you might still end up with a (used) 009, even though you say you can't afford it now .


----------



## astrostar59

zolkis said:


> The 007 Mk2 (SZ3 series) is the same as the  007A apart from the color.


 
 I don't think that is correct. I had an SZ3 black 007 UK model about 2012 model and it sounded bad. I now have the 007A 2015 model which I got from PJ and it sounds really damb good. Tight bass, more detail, faster. The current 007 black is also supped to be the same as the 007A I have, though not heard it so can't say. I have compared my 007A to a good example 007 MK1 and they are closer than different. If anything I prefer the 007A as the treble is livelier.


----------



## zolkis

astrostar59 said:


> I don't think that is correct. I had an SZ3 black 007 UK model about 2012 model and it sounded bad. I now have the 007A 2015 model which I got from PJ and it sounds really damb good. Tight bass, more detail, faster. The current 007 black is also supped to be the same as the 007A I have, though not heard it so can't say. I have compared my 007A to a good example 007 MK1 and they are closer than different. If anything I prefer the 007A as the treble is livelier.


 
  
 I don't think Stax makes two distinct 007 drivers. Others in this forum also suggested the current 007A made for Japanese market is the same as the black 007 Mk2. My 007 Mk2 was made in 2015. I have heard another made in 2015 and they sounded the same. Also, based on your subjective descriptions of the sound of your 007A in this forum, I am pretty sure the current Mk2 is the same.
 But if you would go to a Stax dealer you could be in position to compare your 007A with a recent Mk2.


----------



## thinker

Stax factory pics


----------



## mulveling

Awesome pics! Indeed, the Stax factory is serious business. And lol at 009 being the only one worthy of dust covers.


----------



## purk

mulveling said:


> Awesome pics! Indeed, the Stax factory is serious business. And lol at 009 being the only one worthy of dust covers.


 
 Channel imbalance sir!


----------



## chinsettawong

One of the guys in the pictures is coating the diaphragm.


----------



## zolkis

Yes, and I wonder what do they use nowadays: Mylar or PEEK, and what coating material.
 Edit: and if PEEK, which type: carbon fiber reinforced, or the latter + graphite lubricants.


----------



## duesentrieb

Hi folks, when reading your posts, I thought it might be appropriate to step into the discussion here with a more technical theme regarding Stax small signal & power bandwidths...
  
 Some general remarks
 Recently I acquired a SRM-353x / SR L700 combo, playing very nicely, while hooked up to a T+A R preamp via homemade unbalanced Cinch Line-Out to balanced XLR (to avoid ground loop hum). Sonically I agree with what was stated here before, only very little nasal character of the L700, but I like the rectangular can better and really appreciate the flat bass response (flat as far as I could measure it properly with a 1/4'' mic-capsule and cardboard adaptor...).
 Anyway, when attaching a 2.5m extension cable, I was curious about the potential influence due to increased capacitance.
 Well I heard no difference, fortunately, but took some measurements.

 The SRE-725 cable seems to add some 60pF differential capacitance between the R+/L+ and R-/L- terminals. There is more capacitance, especially to the Bias wires, around 100pF. Considering a symmetrical electrical model with constant membrane voltage,  app. 89KHz small signal bandwidth may be expected by calculation (interestingly acc. to Stax in their specs) and respectively 53KHz including the extension cable, which is perfectly Ok.
 When peeking into the 353X amp, it looks that the basic circuitry is similar to the 323s, which was discussed here before (less Leds illuminating the scene though).
 From the power consumption of 22W though one could estimate some 5mA of sink current in each of the 4 class A amps´ current sources,
 which reduces the estimated power bandwidth @400Vrms from some 22KHz to just 14KHz, according to my calculation...of course at lower levels higher again, to avoid any misunderstanding and misleading discussion upfront...
  
 My Qs and for further discussion (comments welcome!):
  
 - Did anybody hear differences with the extension cable, especially when playing loud?
 - Did anybody measure those amp sink currents???
 - Is there a schematic available for the SRM-353X?


----------



## Pokemonn

I have a extension cable(expensive 2.5m one). I heard it very very slightly harsh/grainy when hooked up to 009/007t. but it maybe placebo effect


----------



## GU1DO

zolkis said:


> The L700 has good deep bass, sound stage is big. It still has the "Lambda coloration" in the mids (slight nasal coloration/hardness in the upper mids, but only evident when compared to the 007 or 009).
> The 007 Mk2 (SZ3 series) is the same as the  007A apart from the color. They have better bass slam, better mids, more correct tones, and overall better sound than L700. Sound stage is huge.
> The 007 Mk1 early series (hard to find) have less bass slam than 007 Mk2 SZ3, but somewhat better bass extension. Mids are more pronounced (and the 009 mids are even more pronounced). Sound stage is a bit narrower than 007 Mk2, but also depends on the headband setting. You need to personalize the 007 headband. I pressed in the middle of the headband (making it more straight) and increased the lateral angle inwards so that pressure is even on my head, but ever slightly more on the lower part (I wear glasses).
> A few pages back I posted some 007 measurements.
> ...


 
  
  


astrostar59 said:


> I don't think that is correct. I had an SZ3 black 007 UK model about 2012 model and it sounded bad. I now have the 007A 2015 model which I got from PJ and it sounds really damb good. Tight bass, more detail, faster. The current 007 black is also supped to be the same as the 007A I have, though not heard it so can't say. I have compared my 007A to a good example 007 MK1 and they are closer than different. If anything I prefer the 007A as the treble is livelier.


 
  
  


zolkis said:


> I don't think Stax makes two distinct 007 drivers. Others in this forum also suggested the current 007A made for Japanese market is the same as the black 007 Mk2. My 007 Mk2 was made in 2015. I have heard another made in 2015 and they sounded the same. Also, based on your subjective descriptions of the sound of your 007A in this forum, I am pretty sure the current Mk2 is the same.
> But if you would go to a Stax dealer you could be in position to compare your 007A with a recent Mk2.


 
  
  
 Really i am thankful for all the input guys ,, it was very helpful 
  
 i just listed my 2170 in ebay . really i cant stand the lack of bass and sound stage
 now searching for new much better and expensive model
  
 Thanks again .


----------



## arnaud

duesentrieb said:


> - Did anybody measure those amp sink currents???


 
  
 There you go: http://www.head-fi.org/t/582518/electrostatic-amplifiers-voltage-ratings#post_7925458


----------



## wuwhere

KGSSHV Carbon current output rating (post #158) http://www.head-fi.org/t/766237/kgsshv-carbon-hows-it-sound-with-the-009s/150


----------



## duesentrieb

wuwhere said:


> KGSSHV Carbon current output rating (post #158) http://www.head-fi.org/t/766237/kgsshv-carbon-hows-it-sound-with-the-009s/150


 
  
  


arnaud said:


> There you go: http://www.head-fi.org/t/582518/electrostatic-amplifiers-voltage-ratings#post_7925458


 

 Thanks guys,
  
 sorry for not finding this myself.
 I think it would be helpful to move the discussion to the other thread (electrostatic-amplifiers-voltage-ratings#post_7925458), this deserves some new acitvity anyway...can someone do that for me?
  
 Btw.:
 Need to go deeper into the capacitance matrix of the L700 for a better understanding what the situation is and how much sink current is really needed.
 From my understanding the quoted 110pf are between both stators plus the cable. Since this capacitance is driven differentially, it will count double in the slew-rate or power bandwidth calculations...or in other words the stator and cable charge voltage completely reverses, e.g. meaning going from +565V to -565V @ 5mA of sink current (in this case), which corresponds to a slew-rate of 45V/us in total or 22.5V/us in one amp branch. On the other hand, if one considers the bias lead voltage as constant (there are good reasons) and just look at the measured capacitances from Bias to L+/L-/R+/R- in the range of 140 to 160pF and single-sided voltage swing, some 33V/us result.
 In real world the scenario gets more complicated since the adjacent R-/L- leads will be out of phase regularly and additionally load these amp branches capacitance-wise...plus the extension cable load...
  
 Anyway, an experiment resulted relaxing. Listening to very loud L/R-uncorrelated white noise with no extension cable in between and then plugging the extension cable into the second 353x output yielded no audible difference...this is it for the moment.


----------



## astrostar59

duesentrieb said:


> Thanks guys,
> 
> sorry for not finding this myself.
> I think it would be helpful to move the discussion to the other thread (electrostatic-amplifiers-voltage-ratings#post_7925458), this deserves some new acitvity anyway...can someone do that for me?
> ...


 

 Short story, the more power, the better the power supply and the better the design of an electrostatic amp, the better the sound. I wouldn't get hung up on all the stuff above.
  
 But IMO all the KG amps I have heard are better than any current Stax amp, and it goes something like Stax (any model) - KGSS, KGST, KGSShv on board, KGSShv off-board (Sanyo or IXYS) KGSShv Carbon - BHSE - T2. That seems to be the norm for most who have heard all those at one time. I have heard some Stax amps, had the KGShv Sanyo off-board, have the Carbon now and heard the BHSE many times. AIMO.


----------



## MrOTL

I am big fan of Stax headphones!!
 cause.. gotta big head lol....


----------



## zolkis

I had the chance to compare my modded 007 Mk1 with Thinker's SR-Ω and Lambda Sig driven by the Aristaeus.
  
 Short version: the Omega is the most perfect sounding headphone I can imagine. The Orpheus didn't make that same impression, nor the 009.
  
 The construction is also among the best, perhaps except the headband is a bit large for me even at the tightest setting .
 It has the best designed ear pads I've ever seen (and similar to the principles HD800 pads are using). All I learned in the past years about ear pads are already incorporated in the SR-Ω pads. I wonder why Stax didn't stick with that... I am contemplating to clone them as I believe it would improve the younger Omegas (007 Mk1, Mk2/A, 009) as well.
  
 For reference, earlier I posted the FR measurement of my 007 Mk1 with modded earpads.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/10335#post_12952833
  
 Compared to the SR-Ω, it still sounded more closed with less treble and narrower sound stage. So I made 2 small mods right there, adjusted the head bands to match the pressure of the SR-Ω, and took out the dust screen which seemed to be denser woven fabric than the one used on the SR-Ω.
  
After these mods they sounded very close actually, and it took multiple tracks to realize what were the differences:
- the SR-Ω has more treble, yet without sounding bright (the 009 has even more treble)
- but they have similar musical resolution, i.e. things are not masked on the 007 Mk1
- the 007 Mk1 sounded a tiny bit clearer in the mids, the SR-Ω sounded cleaner and clearer in the upper mids and treble
- bass extension, impact and texture is similar
- judged by ear, the SR-Ω is even more linear (maybe has more treble spikes), although the modded 007 Mk1 is pretty good, too
- the SR-Ω sound stage is slightly bigger, about similar size as the 007 Mk2/A, but adjusting the headband on the 007 Mk1 brought that close.
  
 The SR-Ω is the better phone, especially that it didn't have any mods, but behold, there are settings for the 007 Mk1 that get it really close to the SR-Ω and it costs much less, but takes a lot of tinkering.
  
We both agreed that in the tested setting the modded 007 Mk1 was better than the 009, and the SR-Ω  surely is.
  
My next mod for the 007 Mk1 is SR-Ω ear pads cloning and new dust screen. It may also elevate the 009 to new heights. Will keep you updated.
  
A few words about the Lambda Sig that was there. This particular unit sounded amazing even when compared to the SR-Omega and the 007 Mk1. Very clean and clear in the mids and highs, with no Lambda-sibilance or brightness or hardness (that is the first Lambda I haven't heard that, maybe because the amp? or is it *that* good?). At least it has the Sigma drivers which is good start. There is very good bass too, albeit not at the level of the Omegas (say 80%). One gets 90-95% of the overall sound quality of the big brothers and no compromise in the mids+highs. I don't remember hearing a better Lambda, Lambda Sigs and x07 and L700 included. I remember a 404LE making very good impression too, but fresh out of the Omega I was surprised how good this Lambda Sig was and I'd say better than the LE. 
  
 OT. There is a fake SR-Ω sales ad out there in German sites these days. The pictures looked real, with a plausible serial number. After contact the guy responded with a text written with kind of bad German which didn't match well with the claimed location, didn't address my questions, and on a google search I've seen others discussing the same email. Scam probability close to 1. By all means be cautious when buying SR-Ω: fake deals, fake drivers, etc.


----------



## musedesign

Hi All,
   "Can you say overwhelmed ?"  696 Pages of Stax ? (In this section, two more previous sections).
  
 Gently asking.  When I was a 17 year old kid (30+ years ago) listened to Stax (no idea of the model) earspeakers and was blown away.  To this day still remember the Stax earspeakers sound.
  
 Can people recommend sub $500 Used Stax ?  Have looked online and confused by all of the models.
  
 Thank you !


----------



## AnakChan

musedesign said:


> Hi All,
> "Can you say overwhelmed ?"  696 Pages of Stax ? (In this section, two more previous sections).
> 
> Gently asking.  When I was a 17 year old kid (30+ years ago) listened to Stax (no idea of the model) earspeakers and was blown away.  To this day still remember the Stax earspeakers sound.
> ...


 
  
 Difficult one. If you don't mind used, you may be able to look into the likes of the SR-404LE, but then you'll still need to have a little more $$ for the amp.


----------



## musedesign

anakchan said:


> Difficult one. If you don't mind used, you may be able to look into the likes of the SR-404LE, but then you'll still need to have a little more $$ for the amp.


 
  
 Dear AnaKChan,
   Thank you for the suggestion.  
  
 Is it possible (recommended)  to buy used Stax Earspeakers and amp for $500 or less ?
  
 All the best


----------



## AnakChan

musedesign said:


> Dear AnaKChan,
> Thank you for the suggestion.
> 
> Is it possible (recommended)  to buy used Stax Earspeakers and amp for $500 or less ?
> ...



In Japan it's possible but I'm not familiar with used Stax prices overseas.


----------



## Tinkerer

musedesign said:


> Hi All,
> "Can you say overwhelmed ?"  696 Pages of Stax ? (In this section, two more previous sections).
> 
> Gently asking.  When I was a 17 year old kid (30+ years ago) listened to Stax (no idea of the model) earspeakers and was blown away.  To this day still remember the Stax earspeakers sound.
> ...


 
  
 You could get an old entry level STAX system for about $300 if you hunt around right. Really old SR-3's, SR-5's, SRX-MkIII's with transformer boxes that you hook up to a speaker amp can be had for sub-$200. An old upper model lambda and a 70's/80's amp for it can be had for around $500 if you have some patience.


----------



## musedesign

tinkerer said:


> You could get an old entry level STAX system for about $300 if you hunt around right. Really old SR-3's, SR-5's, SRX-MkIII's with transformer boxes that you hook up to a speaker amp can be had for sub-$200. An old upper model lambda and a 70's/80's amp for it can be had for around $500 if you have some patience.


 
  
 Thank you Tinkerer for the recommendation,
   Would the SR-Lambda Professional with SRM-1/MK-2 be a good place to start in the $500 range ?
  
 All the best


----------



## Gazza

I asked this in the headphones for Metal listeners thread but I figure this is a better place:
  
 I currently have a Naim NDX  DAC/Streamer-> Densen B-150 integrated amp -> Sonus Faber Liuto speakers
  
 I want to add:
  
 Woo Audio Wee (Dynamic to Electrostatic Headphone Converter) + Stax SR-009
  
 My amp is 100W RMS, very similar to a Naim Supernait/Naim NAC202 + NAP200 or better.
  
 I listen to Metal 99% of the time.
  
 As I also feed an A/V processor into the home theater bypass adding a headphone amp would make it a PITA to swap between speakers and headphones, hence the WEE.
  
 Is this a crazy idea? My Densen amp is very, very good and I have heard significantly more expensive amps sound worse.


----------



## Tinkerer

musedesign said:


> Thank you Tinkerer for the recommendation,
> Would the SR-Lambda Professional with SRM-1/MK-2 be a good place to start in the $500 range ?
> 
> All the best


 

 Yeah. That's a good one.


----------



## musedesign

tinkerer said:


> Yeah. That's a good one.


 
  Thank you,
  
 Found a SR-Lambda Professional with SRM-1/MK-2 setup for $500
  
 All the best


----------



## Tinkerer

gazza said:


> Is this a crazy idea? My Densen amp is very, very good and I have heard significantly more expensive amps sound worse.


 
  
 In general, a transformer solution for electrostatic headphones will be inferior to a good dedicated amp. SR-007 would be better with metal too IMO since it has better bass. You could get a good full amp and an SR-007 for the price of SR-009's new. All you need to do is make sure the electrostatic amp has a loop out and it will plug into your system without worrying about switching either.
  
 If you do decide to go with the Wee and SR-009, just open the transformer box up and make sure it's equipped with the proper ballast resistors to protect the diaphragm of the headphones. It's only about $3 in parts from Mouser if it doesn't have it, so it's an easy fix. Running it without them installed can cost you hundreds of times more than that in the long run if your drivers are damaged.


----------



## Sorrodje

musedesign said:


> Thank you,
> 
> Found a SR-Lambda Professional with SRM-1/MK-2 setup for $500
> 
> All the best


 
  
 Check the Lambda Normal bias as well. My fav' with the Lambda Signature. Never heard the Lambda pro yet


----------



## Gazza

tinkerer said:


> In general, a transformer solution for electrostatic headphones will be inferior to a good dedicated amp. SR-007 would be better with metal too IMO since it has better bass. You could get a good full amp and an SR-007 for the price of SR-009's new. All you need to do is make sure the electrostatic amp has a loop out and it will plug into your system without worrying about switching either.
> 
> If you do decide to go with the Wee and SR-009, just open the transformer box up and make sure it's equipped with the proper ballast resistors to protect the diaphragm of the headphones. It's only about $3 in parts from Mouser if it doesn't have it, so it's an easy fix. Running it without them installed can cost you hundreds of times more than that in the long run if your drivers are damaged.


 

 I see. So would the 007 MKII and the SRM-007t MkII be a viable combo? I don't want a massive amp just something that's a good quality match to the headphones.I've heard you can get better amps than the Stax for similar money but I need to be able to buy them in Australia, preferably Sydney.


----------



## musedesign

sorrodje said:


> Check the Lambda Normal bias as well. My fav' with the Lambda Signature. Never heard the Lambda pro yet


 
  
 Thank you Sorrodje,
   Will look for the SR-Lambda normal bias.  Do they pair well with the with SRM-1/MK-2 ?
  
  Will start to look for the SR-Lambda normal bias with the SRM-1/MK-2.
  
 All the best


----------



## Tinkerer

gazza said:


> I see. So would the 007 MKII and the SRM-007t MkII be a viable combo? I don't want a massive amp just something that's a good quality match to the headphones.I've heard you can get better amps than the Stax for similar money but I need to be able to buy them in Australia, preferably Sydney.


 
  
 Stax tube amps tend to make the 007 sound too dark. If you absolutely must have tubes, look at a KGST or similar. For the price of a new 007tII amp, you could just about get a nice used KG amp. Even my KGSSHV for sale is a couple hundred bucks cheaper than a 007tII from STAX USA. Though if you also absolutely want to stick with STAX brand amps and tubes, an old T1 will serve you well and be a lot cheaper than a new 007tII.
  
 Edit: Almost forgot the SRX-Plus. That deserves a mention for affordable and tubes but you'd have to build it yourself


----------



## Gazza

I don't mind if the sound slightly dark as my source (NAIM NDX) isn't exactly warm, plus I listen to a lot of Metal which has it's fair share of bright, brittle recordings. The KGST looks good but balanced operation is a no-go. Needs to be single ended. Thanks for the suggestion, though.


----------



## Tinkerer

gazza said:


> I don't mind if the sound slightly dark as my source (NAIM NDX) isn't exactly warm, plus I listen to a lot of Metal which has it's fair share of bright, brittle recordings. The KGST looks good but balanced operation is a no-go. Needs to be single ended. Thanks for the suggestion, though.


 

 All KG stat amps can run single-ended. I installed permanent jacks when I built mine, but an adapter plug works just as well.


----------



## mulveling

musedesign said:


> Thank you,
> 
> Found a SR-Lambda Professional with SRM-1/MK-2 setup for $500
> 
> All the best


 
 A couple years back I borrowed Purk's Lambda Pro for a good while, and loved it (drove it from a KGSShv, so it's good with SS, more so than other lambdas which love tubes). I preferred it to the Lambda Signature. Even with both the 009 and 007 Mk I on hand, the Lambda Pro was still a good listen. Very good bass response, and an overall lovely balance -- basically a Stax with a slightly more "fun" signature. At the time was looking for a 2nd Stax to go with my 009, and if Purk would've sold me his Lambda Pro, then I probably wouldn't have bothered with the 007.


----------



## mulveling

tinkerer said:


> SR-007 would be better with metal too IMO since it has better bass. You could get a good full amp and an SR-007 for the price of SR-009's new. All you need to do is make sure the electrostatic amp has a loop out and it will plug into your system without worrying about switching either.


 
 This just comes down to the old 009 vs 007 preference thing -- I much prefer metal on the 009. Good call on everything else.


----------



## Rhamnetin

mulveling said:


> This just comes down to the old 009 vs 007 preference thing -- I much prefer metal on the 009. Good call on everything else.


 
  
 Agreed, I own an SR-007A (picked it up new early this year, so latest revision) and just listened to some metal on the SR-009 again today.  I definitely prefer the SR-009 for metal by a very clear margin.


----------



## MacedonianHero

mulveling said:


> This just comes down to the old 009 vs 007 preference thing -- I much prefer metal on the 009. Good call on everything else.


 
  
 ....the better bass IMO goes to the 009s. The 007's bass is flabby (only in comparison) and the tightness and attack of the 009s takes it for me.


----------



## Gazza

God dammit, now I'm back to wanting the 009s again. I simply can't afford the 09 AND a high quality dedicated amp. It's either:
  
 A) 009 w/ Woo Wee or
 B) 007 amp/cans combo
  
 All the reviews and impressions I've read online about the Wee never mention any problems pairing it with a relatively powerful SS amp.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

My advice is: listen
  
 Because those two are very polarising headphones.
 I would buy two 007 instead of 009, but hey, that's me.
 Bob Katz said: you like 009, you gotta be deaf (and I agree), but hey, that's Bob Katz opinion.
  
 Ask someone to build you a KGSS or KGSSHV, get 007 and make Spritzer's port mod is my advice, but if you can listen and compare them before buy...much better.
  
 It depends, age is also a very important factor, because we lose hearing with age, specially high frequencies.
 I'm 24 years old, and HD800, 009, all Grados, all Ultrasones and similar bright headphones sound like a torture device for me, even more for my sister (16 years old).
 However, my father (52 years old), loves Grados and also HD800, because he doesn't hear what they're doing wrong in the treble.
  
 If you can, try them before buy, is a very personal decision and a big amount of money.
 PS: Make sure you have a GOOD amp for 007 and also for 009, skip Stax amps, Liquid Lighting, WEE and WES.


----------



## joseph69

gazza said:


> God dammit, now I'm back to wanting the 009s again. I simply can't afford the 09 AND a high quality dedicated amp. It's either:
> 
> A) 009 w/ Woo Wee or
> B) 007 amp/cans combo
> ...


 
 I enjoyed my 009 very much with the KGST.
 You could search the F/S forums and possibly find both at an affordable price.


----------



## MacedonianHero

joseph69 said:


> I enjoyed my 009 very much with the KGST.
> You could search the F/S forums and possibly find both at an affordable price.


 
  
 The 727II with the spritzer mod is damn good with both the 007 and 009. But as I mentioned, the 009 wins hands down next to the 007. I've owned both for many years now and my 007s rarely get much head time. On the positive side...they're still in great condition as a result.


----------



## joseph69

macedonianhero said:


> The 727II with the spritzer mod is damn good with both the 007 and 009. But as I mentioned, the 009 wins hands down next to the 007. I've owned both for many years now and my 007s rarely get much head time. On the positive side...they're still in great condition as a result.


 
 Haven't had the opportunity to year any modded Stax amps. After listening to the 007 for a couple of hours then switching 009 I can't take them off my head. I do listen to the 007 but still need to get used to their sound signature being their new to me, so as of now I definitely prefer the 009.


----------



## Tinkerer

joseph69 said:


> Haven't had the opportunity to year any modded Stax amps. After listening to the 007 for a couple of hours then switching 009 I can't take them off my head. I do listen to the 007 but still need to get used to their sound signature being their new to me, so as of now I definitely prefer the 009.


 
  
 Not really that special honestly, at least compared to something like the KGSSHV. My rebuilt SRA-12S beat my feedback mod 727 when I owned them both, though they were on a similar level. The unmodded 727 wasn't even in the running with the 007, not a good pairing at all. The mod is pretty much necessary, but it's also super simple. You just need to rewire four of the feedback resistors.


----------



## MacedonianHero

tinkerer said:


> Not really that special honestly, at least compared to something like the KGSSHV. My rebuilt SRA-12S beat my feedback mod 727 when I owned them both, though they were on a similar level. The unmodded 727 wasn't even in the running with the 007, not a good pairing at all. The mod is pretty much necessary, but it's also super simple. You just need to rewire four of the feedback resistors.


 
 A KGSSHV is better, but if you already own a 727, having it modded is a fantastic option.


----------



## joseph69

tinkerer said:


> Not really that special honestly, at least compared to something like the KGSSHV. My rebuilt SRA-12S beat my feedback mod 727 when I owned them both, though they were on a similar level. The unmodded 727 wasn't even in the running with the 007, not a good pairing at all. The mod is pretty much necessary, but it's also super simple. You just need to rewire four of the feedback resistors.


 
 As I follow the thread I read more and more that most prefer others/DIY amps to Stax amps. I had also read the post about modding the 727. I have absolutely no experience in building/modding amps, but I do understand what the basic parts of an amp are/do but I'm not very techical. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have owned both the Mjolnir KGSSHV and the KGST and preferred the latter with the 009…the former combo was just too bright for me.


----------



## Tinkerer

macedonianhero said:


> A KGSSHV is better, but if you already own a 727, having it modded is a fantastic option.


 

 But why spend the cash on a 727 in the first place when you can get a 717 for half the price or a 10S/12S for a third of the price, even if the latter will need a little work like a cap refresh and a probias board. That's my point. Guess it depends on how technical a person is I suppose, or rather how willing they are to dig into the guts of an amp.
  
  


joseph69 said:


> As I follow the thread I read more and more that most prefer others/DIY amps to Stax amps. I had also read the post about modding the 727. I have absolutely no experience in building/modding amps, but I do understand what the basic parts of an amp are/do but I'm not very techical.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's really just moving two connections per board, though depending on how stuck the resistors are to the board (stax glues them) you may want to replace them completely if you damage them during desoldering. This particular example could have been done neater, but it works.


----------



## musedesign

mulveling said:


> A couple years back I borrowed Purk's Lambda Pro for a good while, and loved it (drove it from a KGSShv, so it's good with SS, more so than other lambdas which love tubes). I preferred it to the Lambda Signature. Even with both the 009 and 007 Mk I on hand, the Lambda Pro was still a good listen. Very good bass response, and an overall lovely balance -- basically a Stax with a slightly more "fun" signature. At the time was looking for a 2nd Stax to go with my 009, and if Purk would've sold me his Lambda Pro, then I probably wouldn't have bothered with the 007.


 
 Thank you mulveling !
  
 Had to look up KGSShv looks amazing (..and out of my league).  
  
 Will keep looking for the Lambda Pro, have found used for $375usd.  Can you point me towards DIY Stax amps ?  I can solder and have put together DIY headphone amps and DACS.
  
 All the best.


----------



## joseph69

tinkerer said:


> It's really just moving two connections per board, though depending on how stuck the resistors are to the board (stax glues them) you may want to replace them completely if you damage them during desoldering. This particular example could have been done neater, but it works.


 
 Forgot to mention I'm legally blind. I only have tunnel vision in one eye and no vision in the other, so I'm limited to what I can take on…so I just use my ears (much easier for me). Thank you for your knowledge, I do appreciate you offering and always read your input on the thread.


----------



## MacedonianHero

tinkerer said:


> But why spend the cash on a 727 in the first place when you can get a 717 for half the price or a 10S/12S for a third of the price, even if the latter will need a little work like a cap refresh and a probias board. That's my point. Guess it depends on how technical a person is I suppose, or rather how willing they are to dig into the guts of an amp.
> 
> 
> 
> It's really just moving two connections per board, though depending on how stuck the resistors are to the board (stax glues them) you may want to replace them completely if you damage them during desoldering. This particular example could have been done neater, but it works.


 
  
 Because you already own the 727II or can get one used... a lot easier to find.


----------



## mulveling

joseph69 said:


> As I follow the thread I read more and more that most prefer others/DIY amps to Stax amps. I had also read the post about modding the 727. I have absolutely no experience in building/modding amps, but I do understand what the basic parts of an amp are/do but I'm not very techical.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You're not alone on that -- 2 of the 3 Mjolnir minis I've heard were *way* too damn bright with the 009 (the one that wasn't too bright was a prototype mini), though they were fantastic for the 007 Mk I. That's not at all representative of the full-sized KGSShv builds I've heard from other builders. Don't assume that Mjolnir builds are the "best" -- even if they are priced as such.


----------



## mulveling

musedesign said:


> Thank you mulveling !
> 
> Had to look up KGSShv looks amazing (..and out of my league).
> 
> ...


 
 I'm not a good resource for DIY info, but if I had to do it on a budget I'd look real hard into Jim L's SRX-Plus. Lambda series plus tubes has proven to be a great match, and Jim L knows his stuff.
  
 I'd buy a well-working Lambda Pro for $375. I haven't heard the revered LNS or 404LE, but I have owned/heard some very good Stax, and the Lambda Pro is a good Stax.


----------



## musedesign

mulveling said:


> I'm not a good resource for DIY info, but if I had to do it on a budget I'd look real hard into Jim L's SRX-Plus. Lambda series plus tubes has proven to be a great match, and Jim L knows his stuff.
> 
> I'd buy a well-working Lambda Pro for $375. I haven't heard the revered LNS or 404LE, but I have owned/heard some very good Stax, and the Lambda Pro is a good Stax.


 
 Dear mulveling,
   Very cool !  Thank you, found Jim L's SRX-Plus build thread very interesting.
  
 Will keep looking into buying the Lambda Pro seems like a good balance, performance to cost.
  
 - Best


----------



## joseph69

mulveling said:


> You're not alone on that -- 2 of the 3 Mjolnir minis I've heard were *way* too damn bright with the 009 (the one that wasn't too bright was a prototype mini), though they were fantastic for the 007 Mk I. That's not at all representative of the full-sized KGSShv builds I've heard from other builders. Don't assume that Mjolnir builds are the "best" -- even if they are priced as such.


 
 I initially sold my KGSSHV/007/009 due to my ears killing me because of the glaring upper frequencies. Then I repurchased the 009/KGST shortly after and enjoyed the combo. Then sold the KGST before receiving the BHSE and purchased the 007 from Justin as well.


----------



## mulveling

joseph69 said:


> I initially sold my KGSSHV/007/009 due to my ears killing me because of the glaring upper frequencies. Then I repurchased the 009/KGST shortly after and enjoyed the combo. Then sold the KGST before receiving the BHSE and purchased the 007 from Justin as well.


 
 If you haven't already, you should try some British Mullard EL34 tubes with the BHSE / 009. I use early 1970's XF3, which are probably less good than the earlier XF2 and XF1. If your upstream gear is neutral and detailed, it's going to sound freaking amazing. I use a Yggdrasil with Audiophilleo 2 and PurePower (Yggy SPDIF) source; Audioquest Sky XLR interconnects (yes they made a difference). Pretty much in bliss here. The 007 Mk I rests quietly in its box.


----------



## Sorrodje

musedesign said:


> Thank you Sorrodje,
> Will look for the SR-Lambda normal bias.  Do they pair well with the with SRM-1/MK-2 ?
> 
> Will start to look for the SR-Lambda normal bias with the SRM-1/MK-2.
> ...


 
  
 yea . the pairing is top notch.  SRM-T1 is maybe the best amplifier for those Lambda but a bit more expensive. Another cheap and good option is the SRD7  .. very good pairing with the Lambda NB and really cheap. A true bargain !


----------



## astrostar59

musedesign said:


> Thank you Sorrodje,
> Will look for the SR-Lambda normal bias.  Do they pair well with the with SRM-1/MK-2 ?
> 
> Will start to look for the SR-Lambda normal bias with the SRM-1/MK-2.
> ...


 
 http://www.hifido.co.jp/KW/G/P0/A10/E/100-50/S0/C16-07456-12514-00/
  
 I like the LNS of all the Lambda range.


----------



## joseph69

mulveling said:


> If you haven't already, you should try some British Mullard EL34 tubes with the BHSE / 009. I use early 1970's XF3, which are probably less good than the earlier XF2 and XF1. If your upstream gear is neutral and detailed, it's going to sound freaking amazing. I use a Yggdrasil with Audiophilleo 2 and PurePower (Yggy SPDIF) source; Audioquest Sky XLR interconnects (yes they made a difference). Pretty much in bliss here. The 007 Mk I rests quietly in its box.


 
 I'm using NOS Amperex Bugle Boy El34's which were made from '58-'62.
 My seller had given me the closest quad matched set he could so the years vary a bit but their already sounding real nice with the little burn-in they have. My chain is a MBP>PWD-ll w/Bridge-ll (AoE) w/AQ Mackenzie XLR and I'm enjoying the sound of the 009/BHSE very much as well. I still have to get use to the 007 which compliments the 009 very but it's hard for me to listen to the 007 after the 009 so I tend to start listening with the 007 first then switch to the 009.


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> I'm using NOS Amperex Bugle Boy El34's which were made from '58-'62.
> My seller had given me the closest quad matched set he could so the years vary a bit but their already sounding real nice with the little burn-in they have. My chain is a MBP>PWD-ll w/Bridge-ll (AoE) w/AQ Mackenzie XLR and I'm enjoying the sound of the 009/BHSE very much as well. I still have to get use to the 007 which compliments the 009 very but it's hard for me to listen to the 007 after the 009 so I tend to start listening with the 007 first then switch to the 009.


 
 I second good NOS tubes are more than 'tone controls'. In my DAC they make the thing sound so much better. I also heard the BHSE with Mullard re-issues and then XF4 and it was not subtle.
  
 Drop the USB for AOIP and it is an even bigger hike IMO. (sorry off topic).


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> I second good NOS tubes are more than 'tone controls'. In my DAC they make the thing sound so much better. I also heard the BHSE with Mullard re-issues and then XF4 and it was not subtle.
> 
> Drop the USB for AOIP and it is an even bigger hike IMO. (sorry off topic).


 
 These are the only NOS tubes I have (so far) so I can only compare them to the stock tubes after sufficient burn-in.
 I'm not using USB…I am using an ethernet connection.


----------



## HemiSam

mulveling said:


> I'm not a good resource for DIY info, but if I had to do it on a budget I'd look real hard into Jim L's SRX-Plus. Lambda series plus tubes has proven to be a great match, and Jim L knows his stuff.
> 
> I'd buy a well-working Lambda Pro for $375. I haven't heard the revered LNS or 404LE, but I have owned/heard some very good Stax, and the Lambda Pro is a good Stax.


 
  
 I'm fortunate to have some very nice KG amp's including the Carbon as well as nice Stax earspeaker options.  I had the pleasure of listening to a pair of 404LE's via an SRM-006t with the only upgrade being tubes.  I was pleasantly surprised with the quality of the sound / combo.
  
 HS


----------



## astrostar59

*009 tweaking and EQ*
 I am / was not such a fan of EQ. It seemed to wreck the transparency of the music and reduced the depth / soundstage too much to be worth the effect of frequency tweaking.
  
 But lately I have been using Apple AU filters 32 band EQ. I found I needed a tiny adjustment to get things bang on for my taste. With my current DAC the treble region is spot on, no effect required. But since my KGSShv was sold and I moved to the Carbon, even though the new amp is obviously better in all areas the bass seems not quite as punchy. Maybe what I was used to?
  
 Anyway, today I read a review on inner fidelity by Tyrll on the Focal Utopia being the latest and worlds greatest, hmm, yet he still lists the 009 as the worlds best on his wall of fame, and says on that page the Utopia is so so. But IO noticed he was using a DMG EQ software to adjust the FQ of the Utopia.
  

  
 So I downloaded the EQuick version as a 2 week demo. Well, it is better than the AU filters which I think do have a slight fuzz added when used. This DMG software is seems totally transparent and no obvious losses. I am using only bass boost though. On my system I find I need 2dB of lift starting around 120hz and going on to 20hz. Watch the 0dB reading on the meter, check it doesn't go over. I set it to -1dB. 
  
 Perfect, the sound now is so damb good. The 009 really does have great bass and responds so well to tweaks and system upgrades. 
  
 I would say give the software a try, but keep it subtle, and watch the levels. Don't change the character of the music too much. If it goes into +dB territory it will clip really badly. The interface is comprehensive and easy to use. I run it inside Audirvana+.
  
 TBH it is possible to set various setting to suit gender and recording quality. There may be some treble howlers in your collection that need a bit of control.
  
 Interestingly the guy who designed the software worked for Focusrite who make the fab RedNet AOIP products.
  
 I haven't tried my 007As yet, but maybe a slight treble lift will reduce the darkness of those HPs a bit.
  
*UPDATE 8/11/16*
 More testing today and I can confirm the EQuick plugin is better than the standard AU units built into Apple / Audirvana+ player. I can also confirm *IMO* that the EQuick sounds better than the more expensive Equality also from DMG. I expected the opposite. It may be because the Equick is smaller / simpler and has less code in it? I also noticed they both sound better with the preview pane disabled. So set it up first how you want it, then set it to not show live reporting. Defeating that improves the transparency and soundstage width. So very happy with that. At £79 for Equick is is like having another DAC that goes nearer to your ideal. The 009 for me is so good, it gets real close to perfection. A 2dB 115hz-10hz lift make sit something special, perfect IMO with no loss of transparency or compression as in many EQs I have tried.


----------



## Tinkerer

Speaking of DIY stuff, I saw in the classified forum that Soren had current version Carbon boards plus GRLV and power caps for about $150. That's a killer deal because the big power caps alone are almost that much unless you get in on a big group buy.
  
 I dropped the price on my KGSSHV too while I was looking around, but regardless of how good an amp it is, I think the popularity of the KGSSHV has gone the way of the KGSS, completely eschewed for the Carbon. It's a real shame.


----------



## rgs9200m

Is there any worthwhile EQ software for Windows? Thanks.


----------



## Tinkerer

rgs9200m said:


> Is there any worthwhile EQ software for Windows? Thanks.


 

 APO parametric equalizer plus Peace GUI. Implemented at system level, good and free. After I removed the springs on my 007's, I stopped using it though.


----------



## zolkis

tinkerer said:


> After I removed the springs on my 007's,


 
  
 You did that? [smile] - are you ready to make the next step(s)? .
 Remove the white 4 mm thick PU foam from the pads filling. I used a small ceramic knife for that and managed to cut through the adhesive layer with no harm done to either foam or PU foam parts. Actually I could stick them together after with no visible or audible changes. So this too is reversible if you take care.
  
 If you have the 007A or recent 007 Mk2, you can stop here, enjoy. Eventually one could use a sparser dust grill (only the SR-Omega has that AFAIK).
  
 The 007 Mk1 takes more (or a lot more) steps to optimum.


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

Hi everyone, I'm about to take possession of a STAX SR-SigmaNB  Earspeaker. There's not many reviews of these models, I've read the reviews by J.Buchanan and Edstrelow on this site, both interesting and informative. What i'm gagging for is info re the imaging and soundstage.I'd like to hear accounts of the imaging in particular. Is the "out of the head imaging" thats in front you, in rare circumstances only, say very good recordings, or higher res recordings. Does it require the the best or medium range amplifiers for instance, or can it be heard with decent portable kit. Any info as I say about the imagimg and soundstage, re when it's there and not there would be very helpful. I do have stax amps to drive them but are there any better amps to do the job for experiencing imaging out of the head that is.
 Ps is sorbathane worth trying out? TIA


----------



## rgs9200m

Thanks Tinkerer!


----------



## Tinkerer

zolkis said:


> You did that? [smile] - are you ready to make the next step(s)? .
> Remove the white 4 mm thick PU foam from the pads filling. I used a small ceramic knife for that and managed to cut through the adhesive layer with no harm done to either foam or PU foam parts. Actually I could stick them together after with no visible or audible changes. So this too is reversible if you take care.
> 
> If you have the 007A or recent 007 Mk2, you can stop here, enjoy. Eventually one could use a sparser dust grill (only the SR-Omega has that AFAIK).
> ...


 
  
 It's an early 007Mk I so the adhesive was old enough the PU foam just peeled off with a little force without needing a knife. Still listening to hear the differences.
  
 Since the endgame mod is pretty complex, you might think about offering a pad kit at some point. I'm sure there's enough Mk I owners to get a group buy going at the other place.


----------



## JimL11

mulveling said:


> I'm not a good resource for DIY info, but if I had to do it on a budget I'd look real hard into Jim L's SRX-Plus. Lambda series plus tubes has proven to be a great match, and Jim L knows his stuff.


 
 I don't want to sound boastful but I think the SRX-Plus does a pretty good job of driving my SR-007 Mk II, and one person who's built one likes it with his SR-009s.


----------



## Tinkerer

Update about the 007Mk I pads. I had to add the white foam back. Without it, it's just enough difference in thickness to make my ears rub against the cloth grill and be very uncomfortable. I couldn't really say much on the sound difference. It didn't seal as well below my ear because of the fit issue so that hurt the bass, but that's fit stuff and not the actual sound signature. Guess it just goes to show we all got different shapes and sizes to deal with.


----------



## isquirrel

Received my shipping notification from MSB this morning, their Select Electrostatic Headphone Amp is on its way.
  
 Trouble is I don't own any Stax Headphones, anyone in the Brisbane area of Queensland, Australia interested in bringing theirs over in exchange for a lengthy listening session?
  
 ​I understand that the 007 MK2's are described to me as being quite dark, full bodied richer than the SR-009's but the 009's have better clarity. Anyone able to expand on this further please?


----------



## rgs9200m

My SR007 mk2 is not dark and is in fact quite revealing.


----------



## yates7592

Daft question, but why did you order the very expensive MSB amp if you don't own any estat headphones?


----------



## isquirrel

yates7592 said:


> Daft question, but why did you order the very expensive MSB amp if you don't own any estat headphones?


 

 Its not a daft question at all, I have the MSB Select stack, and the Headphone Amp has been built to match the rest of MSB gear but its on approval, so if I don't like it I can return it.


----------



## isquirrel

The idea is to get a good idea of how the Stax's perform, I would like to try both the 009 and the 007 MK2, if I have to I will buy a pair as I can always resell them however if a local Head-Fier was an estat owner it would make it easier. Neither the distributor or the dealers carry demo stock unfortunately.


----------



## joseph69

isquirrel said:


> The idea is to get a good idea of how the Stax's perform,* I would like to try both the 009 and the 007 MK2, if I have to I will buy a pair as I can always resell them* however if a local Head-Fier was an estat owner it would make it easier. Neither the distributor or the dealers carry demo stock unfortunately.


 
 This is exactly what I had to do along with the KGSSHV/KGST/BHSE. I sold both the KGSSHV/KGST and own the BHSE as well as both the 009/007Mk2.


----------



## astrostar59

rgs9200m said:


> Is there any worthwhile EQ software for Windows? Thanks.


 

 DMG EQ is available for Mac and Windows.


----------



## astrostar59

isquirrel said:


> Its not a daft question at all, I have the MSB Select stack, and the Headphone Amp has been built to match the rest of MSB gear but its on approval, so if I don't like it I can return it.


 

 Sorry, but can I ask, are you a hifi dealer / installer / reseller? Just the busiest you have and not having any electrostatic HPs?
  
 Not sure, but I read some negatives on the other forum about the design and relevance of the MSB Stat amp and the designer who got asked to do it. I have not heard it so can't say and I can't confirm any posts not from me. Just saying maybe read some more before buying it?


----------



## VandyMan

isquirrel said:


> Its not a daft question at all, I have the MSB Select stack, and the Headphone Amp has been built to match the rest of MSB gear but its on approval, so if I don't like it I can return it.


 
 So, if you like it, you will keep a 37K amp without listening to the excellent sub-10K competition? The idea of starting with the most expensive amp and then buying headphones you have never heard, is totally  backwards, IMO. How would you have any clue if the MSB is actually making the STAX sound their best?


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Want to make a safe bet? Get a Carbon CC and pocket the difference.
 Want to spend money and get the very best ever made? Contact Kevin Gilmore and ask him to build you the DHT amp which costs 18k in parts (don't forget to add his labour costs), probably it would cost you even less than the MSB amp.
  
 MSB makes very fine gear but very overpriced, I would be surprised if the Carbon CC is not on the same level or even better, let's not talk about the DHT amp.
  
 Oh, and regarding Stax, try to do the port mod to the 007 if you audition them, that makes the difference in performance.
 I think 009 is not a good headphone, too bright and thin, stock 007 is also a bit muddy, but 007 with Sprizer's port mod is the real deal, specially with an amplifier and source of that caliber.


----------



## Jones Bob

torofiestasol said:


> Want to make a safe bet? Get a Carbon CC and pocket the difference.
> Want to spend money and get the very best ever made? Contact Kevin Gilmore and ask him to build you the DHT amp which costs 18k in parts (don't forget to add his labour costs), probably it would cost you even less than the MSB amp.
> 
> MSB makes very fine gear but very overpriced, I would be surprised if the Carbon CC is not on the same level or even better, let's not talk about the DHT amp.
> ...




What is this Carbon "CC" you write about?


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

jones bob said:


> What is this Carbon "CC" you write about?


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/766237/kgsshv-carbon-hows-it-sound-with-the-009s/270#post_12530711
  
 Post #284
  
 Actually it's not on Mjolnir's website, but is a Carbon with a full size chassis, RK50 volume pot, silver wiring inside, an R-Core transformer, etc, a version of the "normal" Carbon with state of the art parts. He said that he will do even fancier versions for people who thinks that "Carbon is not expensive enough"
  
 It's the best solid state amp that Kevin Gilmore has designed.


----------



## zolkis

tinkerer said:


> Update about the 007Mk I pads. I had to add the white foam back. Without it, it's just enough difference in thickness to make my ears rub against the cloth grill and be very uncomfortable. I couldn't really say much on the sound difference. It didn't seal as well below my ear because of the fit issue so that hurt the bass, but that's fit stuff and not the actual sound signature. Guess it just goes to show we all got different shapes and sizes to deal with.


 
  
 Makes sense, ear geometries are different. If you don't hear much difference, thicker pads are better. You could also try using rings made of other foams instead the PU foam, if you need more thickness.
  
 I use 009 pads leather shell with the foam part coming from 007 Mk2 black pads (without the 4 mm PU foam disk). That is thicker than the foam in the original brown Mk1 pads. I also use 2 small patches of 2 mm thick carbon foam pieces to fine-tune the sound (it's amazing there is a very clearly audible difference due to just some small pieces of foam in there) and that also helps with the depth.
  
 As mentioned earlier, I will try to make SR-Omega pad variants usable on 007 and 009. The main problem is not even the leather work, but sourcing compatible acoustic foam and then cutting/shaping it.


----------



## Jones Bob

torofiestasol said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/766237/kgsshv-carbon-hows-it-sound-with-the-009s/270#post_12530711
> 
> Post #284
> 
> ...




Please let's just call it a Carbon, m'kay? The design is in flux, and is still evolving with several variants.

Spitzer's earlier PCBs used a single device current source feeding the output SiC Fet. I have a set of those PCBs from a private group buy, but decided to wait for the cascode version. Spritzer prototyped only 2 with cascode constant current sources and sold those 2 on his Mjolnir site as Carbon "CC". 

Later versions and all public group buy PCBs use a cascode current source in that position. 

The latest Mjolnir Carbons do not use a cascode current source according to Spritzer. He's tight lipped on what he is exacting doing with the circuit now that he is building his own unique version. But the latest amps from his shop are not a Carbon CC.


----------



## astrostar59

torofiestasol said:


> Want to make a safe bet? Get a Carbon CC and pocket the difference.
> Want to spend money and get the very best ever made? Contact Kevin Gilmore and ask him to build you the DHT amp which costs 18k in parts (don't forget to add his labour costs), probably it would cost you even less than the MSB amp.
> 
> MSB makes very fine gear but very overpriced, I would be surprised if the Carbon CC is not on the same level or even better, let's not talk about the DHT amp.
> ...


 

 I agree. Also didn't MSB commission a guy who deigned it for them? Lets face it designing and producing an electrostatic amp isn't a walk in the park, and is very different than speaker amps (which MSB make).
  
 My money would be on the T2 DIY or go the whole hog and just buy the HE1 for that money.


----------



## kevin gilmore

torofiestasol said:


> Contact Kevin Gilmore and ask him to build you the DHT amp which costs 18k in parts (don't forget to add his labour costs), probably it would cost you even less than the MSB amp.


 
  
 Nope, not going to happen. Way to busy, and the very few amps I have built for others were presents and given away.


----------



## mulder01

I think isquirrel has previously been on a lengthy search for the world's best dac (for him) and has settled on the flagship from MSB.  And although e-stats aren't currently in his headphone collection, why would you turn down a chance for an in home audition of the MSB flagship headphone amp if you fell in love with their DAC?  Surely someone in Brisbane is a 009 owner, keen to hear the full MSB stack combo vs their own system in a quiet extended in home environment in return for use of their headphones... It's really just a mini meet with a chance to try some very nice equipment and see how it stacks up against some of the world's best non-estat systems.  And if he doesn't absolutely love it, he just has to send it back.  No biggy.


----------



## jibzilla

vandyman said:


> So, if you like it, you will keep a 37K amp without listening to the excellent sub-10K competition? The idea of starting with the most expensive amp and then buying headphones you have never heard, is totally  backwards, IMO. How would you have any clue if the MSB is actually making the STAX sound their best?


 
  
 I agree. You do usually end up losing a bit of money buying and selling less expensive gear but I think it is money very well spent. You can't really get an idea of what the upgrade sounds like without having something equally or less expensive to compare it to. In the case of this amp good luck finding equal competition. Maybe the new SOTA offerings from Hifiman and Sennheiser? It looks like isquirel has deep pockets but that is really deep pockets.
  
 If I had $37k to burn on headphones R10, Omega, He-90 and I have not heard any of them. So in a way I sort of sympathize with isquriel. Plus it looks like he can return it where that would be difficult with the 3 vintage headphones I mentioned. I think to a degree when you get to the point where the money seems almost limitless conventional wisdom goes bye bye.
  
 I'm actually downgrading and that is not to say there was not an improvement going from $1-2k to $4-5k. Just diminishing returns starts to hit hard at $2k imo. and there are some real gems out there if your patient enough. I also wouldn't just save some money by going with a KG amp instead of the MSB. I'd also save some coin by trying out a Teton or Ravenswood instead of the Woo.


----------



## astrostar59

mulder01 said:


> I think isquirrel has previously been on a lengthy search for the world's best dac (for him) and has settled on the flagship from MSB.  And although e-stats aren't currently in his headphone collection, why would you turn down a chance for an in home audition of the MSB flagship headphone amp if you fell in love with their DAC?  Surely someone in Brisbane is a 009 owner, keen to hear the full MSB stack combo vs their own system in a quiet extended in home environment in return for use of their headphones... It's really just a mini meet with a chance to try some very nice equipment and see how it stacks up against some of the world's best non-estat systems.  And if he doesn't absolutely love it, he just has to send it back.  No biggy.


 

 True enough. BUT I would question the experience / pedigree of MSB in building a top Stat amp. And the designer they used, who is he, does anyone have information on that. I read the guy distanced himself from the subject, but it would be good to get the trust for sure.
  
 IMO I wouldn't pay for a 37K amp until I pitched it against a BHSE or Carbon that could potentially beat it at 1/8th of the price. Seems like burning cash to me.
  
 Going back to the ever expanding MSB pricing structures, the Select DAC has most of the guts from the Diamond right? Not sure why it cost x 2. Fancy case and LED readout? Not saying it doesn't sound great, but there is big competition up to 80K TBH. It would be great to see some posters who have pitched it against others to see where it sits.


----------



## paradoxper

I would say keep the subjects separate. Digital is moving so fast those $80k DACs are being surpassed by merging technologies. 
 For the "amplifier", I feel doubtful there is truly anything revolutionary nor esoteric for that price tag. Surprise.


----------



## mulder01

astrostar59 said:


> True enough. BUT I would question the experience / pedigree of MSB in building a top Stat amp. And the designer they used, who is he, does anyone have information on that. I read the guy distanced himself from the subject, but it would be good to get the trust for sure.
> 
> IMO I wouldn't pay for a 37K amp until I pitched it against a BHSE or Carbon that could potentially beat it at 1/8th of the price. Seems like burning cash to me.
> 
> Going back to the ever expanding MSB pricing structures, the Select DAC has most of the guts from the Diamond right? Not sure why it cost x 2. Fancy case and LED readout? Not saying it doesn't sound great, but there is big competition up to 80K TBH. It would be great to see some posters who have pitched it against others to see where it sits.


 
  
 I wouldn't really care about a company's or individual's past experience in building e stat amps.  The Abyss was the first attempt at a pair of headphones from a company that makes cables and to my ears, they're the best headphones on the market.  A lot of people think the Utopia wins the world, and that was Focal's first attempt at a (high end) headphone too.  
  
 I think he wanted to compare it to a BHSE.   Yes, that makes sense.  Hopefully whoever has a 009 has one.  A lot of other top flight e stat amps seem to be custom jobs.  Try getting them all in the same place at the same time.  Especially when that place is Brisbane...
  
 In regards to pricing, I used to talk to isquirrel a bit back in the day and he never seemed like he just wanted the most expensive, just the best sounding.  As far as I'm aware, there was a lot of auditioning and purchasing before arriving at the MSB stack.  If someone comes out with a better DAC for half the price he will probably replace it with that.  I would assume.
  


paradoxper said:


> I would say keep the subjects separate. Digital is moving so fast those $80k DACs are being surpassed by merging technologies.
> For the "amplifier", I feel doubtful there is truly anything revolutionary nor esoteric for that price tag. Surprise.


 
  
 I am not a DAC man myself, and in a way I agree and it's probably not how I would spend my money, but I feel like I should ask you the standard Head Fi response at this point: What $80k dacs have you tried and what have you compared them to and what are the differences to your ears... And if you have not heard the MSB amp then you are just speculating ;P
  
  
 Have just realised I am drifting off topic.  tldr; he's getting one to try in home for free, you would try it too if it were offered to you, right?  Will he buy it?  Probably not, but it's too bigger toy for an audiophile to knock back...


----------



## paradoxper

mulder01 said:


> I wouldn't really care about a company's or individual's past experience in building e stat amps.  The Abyss was the first attempt at a pair of headphones from a company that makes cables and to my ears, they're the best headphones on the market.  A lot of people think the Utopia wins the world, and that was Focal's first attempt at a (high end) headphone too.
> 
> I think he wanted to compare it to a BHSE.   Yes, that makes sense.  Hopefully whoever has a 009 has one.  A lot of other top flight e stat amps seem to be custom jobs.  Try getting them all in the same place at the same time.  Especially when that place is Brisbane...
> 
> ...


 
 I have heard the Kalliope, Trinity, Vivaldi and 5th Element to name a few. My point wasn't really about high pricing specifically or even great implementation (as with the case of the ES9018 in the Kalliope being really darn good,) but more about how DAC technology is moving at such a fast rate that any $3-5k+ DAC is a poor value. No matter the sound. 
  
 To your point, Stax are great. Stax. Stax. Stax.


----------



## mulder01

paradoxper said:


> To your point, Stax are great. Stax. Stax. Stax.


 
  
 Let me make sure I understand this...
  
 Stax?
  
 I'll listen to one... one day
 I think one of the biggest issues of dealers not really being willing to audition them here is Price Japan - nobody wants to be a free audition centre so people can just go home and buy themselves a pair for half the price online... Oh well, last thing I need is more expensive headphone gear...


----------



## astrostar59

mulder01 said:


> I wouldn't really care about a company's or individual's past experience in building e stat amps.  The Abyss was the first attempt at a pair of headphones from a company that makes cables and to my ears, they're the best headphones on the market.  A lot of people think the Utopia wins the world, and that was Focal's first attempt at a (high end) headphone too.


 
 I agree, the Abyss is a breakthrough HP for an new company. It was however the same price as the 009 though. But my other issue with the MSB electrostatic amp is the price. There are a cluster or Stax and DIY electrostatic amps, Woo Audio, Cavalli, who are more or less around the 3k-7K range. Then we are presented with a 37K amplifier from a newbie to this sector. Hardly surprising the response? A price hike of 6 x is a big ask.
  
 A question, all the electrostatic amps I had heard or seen emit a good deal of heat. How has MSB solved this? I don't see any heatsinks on the Select case used.
  
 Yes, we await a report on how good the amp is, against at least the BHSE and 009s. It really needs to be new territory to justify that price. unless they believe enough loyal buyers will want to complete the Select set anyway, regardless.


----------



## bmichels

astrostar59 said:


> *009 tweaking and EQ*
> I am / was not such a fan of EQ. It seemed to wreck the transparency of the music and reduced the depth / soundstage too much to be worth the effect of frequency tweaking.
> 
> .... On my system I find I need 2dB of lift starting around 120hz and going on to 20hz. Watch the 0dB reading on the meter, check it doesn't go over. I set it to -1dB.
> ...


 
  
*TotalDAC's BassBoost option* may be an elegant solution for those using a TotalDAC


----------



## hpz

Too bad I sold my stax 009 and bhse for an abyss setup or else I'd be all over this and fly up to Brisbane in a heartbeat!


----------



## isquirrel

mulder01 said:


> Let me make sure I understand this...
> 
> Stax?
> 
> ...


 

 Hey mate, I ended having to order the Stax 009, I went straight to the distributor so that hurt less. It will be here on Tuesday, the MSB will be here Wednesday, how about we let them settle in for a while and then catch up for a listening session next weekend?
  
 All of the points you have raised I agree with, its not about the expense, I wish it cost a lot less, the notion that the Select is basically the same as the Diamond is well rubbish. For a start the Select does not up-sample in any way and it has no internal amps to drive the output just the purity of the DAC modules themselves. It couldn't be more different to the rest of MSB's gear apart from the Analog DAC and that's only a marginal comparison in terms of topology.
  
 For me its about exploring what makes the best sound IMHO. I don't think people have any idea just how remote Brisbane is in terms of High End Audio. Matt as you know is the only other person other than yourself to have a reasonably large Head-Fi system, I have recently made a good friend who shares the same interests and he has a stack of equipment I have bene hanging out to listen to, he will be joining us for the listening sessions. Along with some of his gear.
  
 If your amp has arrived we would all love to hear it.


----------



## isquirrel

hpz said:


> Too bad I sold my stax 009 and bhse for an abyss setup or else I'd be all over this and fly up to Brisbane in a heartbeat!


 

 You would be welcome !


----------



## isquirrel

astrostar59 said:


> I agree, the Abyss is a breakthrough HP for an new company. It was however the same price as the 009 though. But my other issue with the MSB electrostatic amp is the price. There are a cluster or Stax and DIY electrostatic amps, Woo Audio, Cavalli, who are more or less around the 3k-7K range. Then we are presented with a 37K amplifier from a newbie to this sector. Hardly surprising the response? A price hike of 6 x is a big ask.
> 
> A question, all the electrostatic amps I had heard or seen emit a good deal of heat. How has MSB solved this? I don't see any heatsinks on the Select case used.
> 
> Yes, we await a report on how good the amp is, against at least the BHSE and 009s. It really needs to be new territory to justify that price. unless they believe enough loyal buyers will want to complete the Select set anyway, regardless.


 

 Plenty of Heat Sinks on the Select, same chassis is used for the Headphone Amp.
  


 As has been pointed out, I will not be able to compare against another Stat Headphone Amp, what I will be able to do is to compare it to TOTL Dynamic and Planar amps, valve & SS.


----------



## purk

isquirrel said:


> Plenty of Heat Sinks on the Select, same chassis is used for the Headphone Amp.
> 
> 
> 
> *As has been pointed out, I will not be able to compare against another Stat Headphone Amp,* what I will be able to do is to compare it to TOTL Dynamic and Planar amps, valve & SS.


 
 Why not?  The whole point of doing this type of review is to compare apple to apple.  Why not reach out to Headamp for a loaner of their BHSE and make a comparison?


----------



## isquirrel

purk said:


> Why not?  The whole point of doing this type of review is to compare apple to apple.  Why not reach out to Headamp for a loaner of their BHSE and make a comparison?


 

 That may what you would do and I respect that. It not however what I have been thinking about.  I have already heard the BHSE with 009's. I want to compare it to the best (my subjective choice) of what I already have the Woo 234's, the Goldmund, DAVE and the Nagra HD DAC. This is my objective. Hopefully if the timing aligns, when the distributors BHSE comes available I will compare the MSB to that. 
  
 BTW, can anyone give me an idea of burn in time for the Stax 009"s?


----------



## chinsettawong

No burn in time needed for electrostatic phones.


----------



## astrostar59

isquirrel said:


> BTW, can anyone give me an idea of burn in time for the Stax 009"s?


 
 No birn in time as far as I noticed, but the amp will need some hours on it.


----------



## mulveling

Welp that's the best MSB could've hoped for with their ludicrously expensive amp -- get it in the hands of people/reviewers that are electrostatic newbies who'll be comparing it to dynamic setups or low-end Stax amps, rather than the other top-echelon (but still much more affordable) electrostatic amps (BHSE, Carbon). The merits of 007/009 alone, with even mediocre amping, will probably wow these folks. Basically keeps their amp protected in a nice safe space.
  
 I also like how they posture as a high-tech company yet the details on their amp are basically "it's the best!!".


----------



## JimL11

Sound aside their "technical information" doesn't make any sense.  They say "the output of a discrete ladder DAC drives the headphones directly. " HUH?  How does a ladder DAC, which is presumably putting out a few volts, get its output turned into the hundreds of volts needed to drive a stat phone?  If the DAC is driving the phones directly, why do you need an amp?  And if it is driving the headphones through an amp, it isn't directly driving it.  Unless MSB is using a different version of the English language than the one I'm familiar with.  And I'd be curious to know what justifies a cost more than 5X a BHSE, other than the Lamborghini factor.


----------



## jibzilla

jiml11 said:


> Sound aside their "technical information" doesn't make any sense.  They say "the output of a discrete ladder DAC drives the headphones directly. " HUH?  How does a ladder DAC, which is presumably putting out a few volts, get its output turned into the hundreds of volts needed to drive a stat phone?  If the DAC is driving the phones directly, why do you need an amp?  And if it is driving the headphones through an amp, it isn't directly driving it.  Unless MSB is using a different version of the English language than the one I'm familiar with.  And I'd be curious to know what justifies a cost more than 5X a BHSE, other than the Lamborghini factor.


 
  
 I think you have to buy an uber pre amp to use it. So yeah you spend $37k on a electrostatic amp with no volume control. Smart aint it. That way if you do not like the sound it is the preamps fault, not the $37k electrostatic amp.


----------



## astrostar59

jiml11 said:


> Sound aside their "technical information" doesn't make any sense.  They say "the output of a discrete ladder DAC drives the headphones directly. " HUH?  How does a ladder DAC, which is presumably putting out a few volts, get its output turned into the hundreds of volts needed to drive a stat phone?  If the DAC is driving the phones directly, why do you need an amp?  And if it is driving the headphones through an amp, it isn't directly driving it.  Unless MSB is using a different version of the English language than the one I'm familiar with.  And I'd be curious to know what justifies a cost more than 5X a BHSE, other than the Lamborghini factor.


 

 Jim
 I think they are referring to the DAC board having / creating enough gain / voltage to no need a pre-amp inside the Select. The TotalDAC does the same with the D12. Then the MSB Electrostatic amp as a new unit of gain.
  
 I am curious, a Carbon at 3-4K average, BHSE at 5.8K, WOO WES at 6K, LL2 at 4.8K (roughly), a T2 DIY maybe at 8K? Then we have the MSB amp at 37K.
  
 So they are basically saying everything before it is trash, and we at MSB slay on others who come before us. They really need to upgrade there basic looking website. I give them credit on their more affordable DACs, the Analogue and the Platinum (now not available though so prices shot up for the current model). But 37K for this amp....
  
 Mmm, I find it hard to understand how a smallish company has magically done this. Did they hire the electrostatic designer guy they had on there early webpage? If not, how did they do this and also reinvent the wheel, i.e. beat the rest by 5 x as reflected in the asking price.
  
 I also question how it will get rid of all the heat. I know the case has heatsinks, but they look very small.
  
 Well, only way to know for sure is to have an experienced user test it against the BHSE or other top amp on the 009s. Next best thing I guess is against the Abyss or Focal with another top amp.
  
 If it justifies the price, it will be clearly the best electrostatic amp available to date.


----------



## JimL11

astrostar59 said:


> I think they are referring to the DAC board having / creating enough gain / voltage to no need a pre-amp inside the Select. The TotalDAC does the same with the D12. Then the MSB Electrostatic amp as a new unit of gain.
> 
> 
> I also question how it will get rid of all the heat. I know the case has heatsinks, but they look very small.


 
 Yes, but that's not what they said.  They said that the DAC drives the headphones DIRECTLY, which to me means DAC connected to headphones with nothing intervening.  Unless its translated from another language.
  
 Remember the case is 17" X 17" so the heatsinks are probably bigger than they look in the photo.


----------



## purk

isquirrel said:


> That may what you would do and I respect that. It not however what I have been thinking about.  I have already heard the BHSE with 009's. I want to compare it to the best (my subjective choice) of what I already have the Woo 234's, the Goldmund, DAVE and the Nagra HD DAC. This is my objective. Hopefully if the timing aligns, when the distributors BHSE comes available I will compare the MSB to that.
> 
> BTW, can anyone give me an idea of burn in time for the Stax 009"s?


 
 If you want to hear the KGSSHV Carbon in Australia, I can get you in touch with a gentlemen who own build his own DIY KGSSHV Carbon.  Seriously though, you will do a lot service to folks here and every where if you include the KGSSHV Carbon or BHSE into the review.


----------



## arnaud

jiml11 said:


> Yes, but that's not what they said.  They said that the DAC drives the headphones DIRECTLY, which to me means DAC connected to headphones with nothing intervening.  Unless its translated from another language.
> 
> Remember the case is 17" X 17" so the heatsinks are probably bigger than they look in the photo.




Seems to be referring to the way the dac is coupled to the amp (no output stage like used to drive typical preamp loads as astrostar mentioned)


----------



## JimL11

arnaud said:


> Seems to be referring to the way the dac is coupled to the amp (no output stage like used to drive typical preamp loads as astrostar mentioned)


 

 Yeah, that's probably what they meant, but then they should have said DAC directly drives the amp, not DAC directly drives the headphones.  I know people for whom English is a second language that write more accurately than that.  I just hope their design expertise is better than their command of English.


----------



## mulder01

Quote:


mulveling said:


> Welp that's the best MSB could've hoped for with their ludicrously expensive amp -- get it in the hands of people/reviewers that are electrostatic newbies who'll be comparing it to dynamic setups or low-end Stax amps, rather than the other top-echelon (but still much more affordable) electrostatic amps (BHSE, Carbon). The merits of 007/009 alone, with even mediocre amping, will probably wow these folks. Basically keeps their amp protected in a nice safe space.
> 
> I also like how they posture as a high-tech company yet the details on their amp are basically "it's the best!!".


 
  
 I disagree.  isquirrel did mention that he has heard the 009+BHSE in the past, yet he has elected not to go down that road, but to get the Abyss/HEK/LCD-4/Utopia instead.  His decisions on what to buy have been based on auditions.  IF, in the unlikely event, he prefers the MSB +Stax setup to all others, THEN you could look at switching out the amp for something more reasonably priced to see if the result changed, and by how much, if you decided to do so.  But I have a hunch that he will prefer his current setup, even with the MSB amp in the chain.  But if MSB offers to send you out an amp to try in home for a few weeks, why wouldn't you satisfy your audiophile curiosity and give it a go?
  


purk said:


> If you want to hear the KGSSHV Carbon in Australia, I can get you in touch with a gentlemen who own build his own DIY KGSSHV Carbon.  Seriously though, you will do a lot service to folks here and every where if you include the KGSSHV Carbon or BHSE into the review.


 
  
 In this guy in Brisbane though?  Australia is BIG...
 I don't think it's necessarily an exercise in serving the community by doing an in depth comparison of everything that can drive the 009.  He did put the call out to see if anyone would be willing to loan their stuff and nobody answered.  As I just said above, he mentioned that he had tried the 009 in the past, but has gone with a non-estat setup.  The experiment is more to see if the MSB amp changes things and brings the stat option to above the non-stat options.  Maybe it does.  Maybe it's the best amp in the world to the point where it made him love -above all others- a headphone he disregarded before.  Time will tell.
  
 ---
  
 On a side note, if the whole thread jumps on anyone who buys a piece of gear like this, it just decreases the likelihood of anyone who buys this stuff to bother posting in the forum and you're actually less likely to get any information about it at all.  If someone buys a HE1 or Shangri-La, they aren't going to even bother posting about it on head fi because people will just jump all over them.  So what's the point in them even sharing their opinion.  I wouldn't blame Simon if he didn't even bother posting his findings here because it will just be met with negativity...  Think about that.


----------



## TheAttorney

> On a side note, if the whole thread jumps on anyone who buys a piece of gear like this, it just decreases the likelihood of anyone who buys this stuff to bother posting in the forum and you're actually less likely to get any information about it at all.  If someone buys a HE1 or Shangri-La, they aren't going to even bother posting about it on head fi because people will just jump all over them.  So what's the point in them even sharing their opinion.  I wouldn't blame Simon if he didn't even bother posting his findings here because it will just be met with negativity...  Think about that.


 
 +1
 I do hope that Simon does keep posting his findings because I find his perspective useful and interesting - even if I'm unlikely to ever buy an MSB Select.
  
 I also find it hypocritical for anyone on a high end forum to criticize the price of another person's choice of TOTL components, when their own components would be considered obscenely priced by 99.9% of the world's population.


----------



## JimL11

> On a side note, if the whole thread jumps on anyone who buys a piece of gear like this, it just decreases the likelihood of anyone who buys this stuff to bother posting in the forum and you're actually less likely to get any information about it at all.  If someone buys a HE1 or Shangri-La, they aren't going to even bother posting about it on head fi because people will just jump all over them.  So what's the point in them even sharing their opinion.  I wouldn't blame Simon if he didn't even bother posting his findings here because it will just be met with negativity...  Think about that.


 
 I don't think I'm jumping all over the MSB, or anyone who is thinking of listening to one.  What I objected to was language in the advertisement which was, IMHO, technically nonsensical.  Now, if someone writes something that doesn't make technical sense, it does raise questions.  For example, if someone claims to have invented a perpetual motion machine, which contradicts the laws of thermodynamics, I wouldn't say, well, I need to test it to see if it works, I would say, that's physically impossible.


----------



## mulveling

theattorney said:


> +1
> I do hope that Simon does keep posting his findings because I find his perspective useful and interesting - even if I'm unlikely to ever buy an MSB Select.
> 
> I also find it hypocritical for anyone on a high end forum to criticize the price of another person's choice of TOTL components, when their own components would be considered obscenely priced by 99.9% of the world's population.


 
  
 We're not criticizing anyone's ability or choice to spend this amount of money on audio components (well I'm not; that would indeed be extremely hypocritical). I'm not actually criticizing iSquirrel either though I came off as abrasive. I don't care who has how much money or what the rest of the world makes, and I don't care about people making a healthy profit. But the head-fi segment of audio, especially the amplification side (driven by the strong DIY community), has long been the "high value" antithesis to the traditional 2ch hi-fi market, which inches closer to a *high price is the main feature* theme every day. Yes there are still some great 2ch products out there, but the cutting edge stuff is way, way out of reach of the working class, the budget & midrange stuff gets marginalized, and the market shrinks every year. 
  
 Now it seems head-fi is on this path, and it won't take long to catch up. A prime example being this here amplifier which is priced 5X that of its competition -- and the manufacturer provides absolutely _*no*_ technical information on why that price should be even _slightly_ justified by performance. Maybe a little hand-waving, if that. But basically "We make really nice sounding DACs, including a 100K+ one. _Trust us_ this $37K silver box is amazing". It reeks of *price is its main feature*. 
  
 Contrast that to a KG designed amp: the engineering/design philosophy is explained, the circuity is fully laid out and distributed free, the parts list and cost is totally transparent. On the expensive ones, you know why they cost a lot...he's proposed amps with parts costs over 10K, which is certainly more than the parts in this MSB amp. DIY T2 also has very high parts costs that could translate to 35K in a retail product, _and that would be justified_. The transparency has been nice, and it's worked very well for the Stax niche. We're not holding the competition to full transparency and razor-thin margins. But this is ludicrously pegging the needle to the other side of things.


----------



## JimL11

theattorney said:


> I also find it hypocritical for anyone on a high end forum to criticize the price of another person's choice of TOTL components, when their own components would be considered obscenely priced by 99.9% of the world's population.


 
 Well, yes and no.  I agree in general that most of the world's population would consider the cost of what we buy ridiculous. But even within that, I think one can make a judgment about whether the markup on a piece of equipment is excessive.  I have heard that in the high end market, the ratio between parts cost and price is around 5:1, or maybe 10:1.  That includes not only transistors, tubes, resistors, etc., but also the cost of casing, cabinet (in the case of speakers), etc.  This accounts for profit to the manufacturer, distributor, dealer, advertising costs, etc.  So, it is possible to have some idea of how much it is "reasonable" to charge for a product given what goes into it.  Now, if someone is charging 20x the cost of producing it, then I think it is reasonable to criticize the price as being excessive, even in the context of high end.  I expect a manufacturer to be able to make a decent living.  I don't necessarily expect a manufacturer to be able to buy a Ferrari.  If people are willing to buy from them anyway, so be it.


----------



## JimL11

mulveling said:


> We're not criticizing anyone's ability or choice to spend this amount of money on audio components (well I'm not; that would indeed be extremely hypocritical). I'm not actually criticizing iSquirrel either though I came off as abrasive. I don't care who has how much money or what the rest of the world makes, and I don't care about people making a healthy profit. But the head-fi segment of audio, especially the amplification side (driven by the strong DIY community), has long been the "high value" antithesis to the traditional 2ch hi-fi market, which inches closer to a *high price is the main feature* theme every day. Yes there are still some great 2ch products out there, but the cutting edge stuff is way, way out of reach of the working class, the budget & midrange stuff gets marginalized, and the market shrinks every year.
> 
> Now it seems head-fi is on this path, and it won't take long to catch up. A prime example being this here amplifier which is priced 5X that of its competition -- and the manufacturer provides absolutely _*no*_ technical information on why that price should be even _slightly_ justified by performance. Maybe a little hand-waving, if that. But basically "We make really nice sounding DACs, including a 100K+ one. _Trust us_ this $37K silver box is amazing". It reeks of *price is its main feature*.
> 
> Contrast that to a KG designed amp: the engineering/design philosophy is explained, the circuity is fully laid out and distributed free, the parts list and cost is totally transparent. On the expensive ones, you know why they cost a lot...he's proposed amps with parts costs over 10K, which is certainly more than the parts in this MSB amp. DIY T2 also has very high parts costs that could translate to 35K in a retail product, _and that would be justified_. The transparency has been nice, and it's worked very well for the Stax niche. We're not holding the competition to full transparency and razor-thin margins. But this is ludicrously pegging the needle to the other side of things.


 

 1+.  On a side note, I recently was in NYC and got a brief audition of the Sennheiser HE-1 at their store in SoHo.  I posted brief impressions on the appropriate thread, but at least for me, it left me contented with my modest SRX Plus and SR-007 setup.  I didn't feel deprived not having $55k burning a hole in my pocket.  JMHO.


----------



## TheAttorney

mulveling said:


> ... though I came off as abrasive...


 
 I'm not disagreeing with any of the recent replies, I just didn't like the _way_ the earlier post was presented on this occasion.
  
 I think most of us on the high end forum already know (and don't like) the ever increasing margins as one goes up the high end scale. But do we really need to keep ranting on about it? As happened on that Sen thread. MSB and Sen have got models at all  price ranges, so why not focus on the price range that suites you?
  
 We can all speculate until the cows come home, but absolutely no one here really knows how good this Select amp is going to be, apart from possibly iSquirrel when he gets it. If you've read some of his other posts, he's not one to be easily taken in by a price tag.


----------



## purk

theattorney said:


> I'm not disagreeing with any of the recent replies, I just didn't like the _way_ the earlier post was presented on this occasion.
> 
> I think most of us on the high end forum already know (and don't like) the ever increasing margins as one goes up the high end scale. But do we really need to keep ranting on about it? As happened on that Sen thread. MSB and Sen have got models at all  price ranges, so why not focus on the price range that suites you?
> 
> We can all speculate until the cows come home, but absolutely no one here really knows how good this Select amp is going to be, apart from possibly iSquirrel when he gets it. If you've read some of his other posts, he's not one to be easily taken in by a price tag.


 
 I'm also in agreement with you but his review could be more informative to potential buyers by including amplifiers such as BHSE from Headamp Electronics & KGSSHV Carbon from Mjolnir Audio.  No...I don't expect the BHSE or KGSSHV to better it but at least we would know in relative terms how they stack up to this amp.   The pricetag is no doubt ridiculous for the MSB unit as one can buy a full set of the original Orpheus system and have enough money to complete the BHSE + SR009/SR007 for the same price as one MSB unit.


----------



## VandyMan

My concern, since he is a reviewer, is that his conclusions will not be meaningful because he does not have a proper comparison. That said, I do look forward to reading his results.

  


theattorney said:


> We can all speculate until the cows come home, but absolutely no one here really knows how good this Select amp is going to be, apart from possibly iSquirrel when he gets it. If you've read some of his other posts, he's not one to be easily taken in by a price tag.


 
  
 I'm not sure iSquirrel will know either since there are no meaningful measures of subjective audio quality other than comparison.


----------



## mulder01

jiml11 said:


> I don't think I'm jumping all over the MSB, or anyone who is thinking of listening to one.  What I objected to was language in the advertisement which was, IMHO, technically nonsensical.  Now, if someone writes something that doesn't make technical sense, it does raise questions.  For example, if someone claims to have invented a perpetual motion machine, which contradicts the laws of thermodynamics, I wouldn't say, well, I need to test it to see if it works, I would say, that's physically impossible.


 
  
 That comment wasn't aimed at you in particular - it was the general tone of the thread - I realise there was 2 separate conversations going on at the time.
  


mulveling said:


> We're not criticizing anyone's ability or choice to spend this amount of money on audio components (well I'm not; that would indeed be extremely hypocritical). I'm not actually criticizing iSquirrel either though I came off as abrasive. I don't care who has how much money or what the rest of the world makes, and I don't care about people making a healthy profit. But the head-fi segment of audio, especially the amplification side (driven by the strong DIY community), has long been the "high value" antithesis to the traditional 2ch hi-fi market, which inches closer to a *high price is the main feature* theme every day. Yes there are still some great 2ch products out there, but the cutting edge stuff is way, way out of reach of the working class, the budget & midrange stuff gets marginalized, and the market shrinks every year.
> 
> Now it seems head-fi is on this path, and it won't take long to catch up. A prime example being this here amplifier which is priced 5X that of its competition -- and the manufacturer provides absolutely _*no*_ technical information on why that price should be even _slightly_ justified by performance. Maybe a little hand-waving, if that. But basically "We make really nice sounding DACs, including a 100K+ one. _Trust us_ this $37K silver box is amazing". It reeks of *price is its main feature*.
> 
> Contrast that to a KG designed amp: the engineering/design philosophy is explained, the circuity is fully laid out and distributed free, the parts list and cost is totally transparent. On the expensive ones, you know why they cost a lot...he's proposed amps with parts costs over 10K, which is certainly more than the parts in this MSB amp. DIY T2 also has very high parts costs that could translate to 35K in a retail product, _and that would be justified_. The transparency has been nice, and it's worked very well for the Stax niche. We're not holding the competition to full transparency and razor-thin margins. But this is ludicrously pegging the needle to the other side of things.


 
  
 If this is indeed a case of price being the best feature, then that's great because it means the average Stax fan doesn't need to spend $$$$$ to get the world's best amp.  I mean, MSB is likely to sell only a few of these - given that you need to own their $100k DAC first, and probably 95% of people who own that DAC are using it with 2 ch systems not headphones.  Then, even if they do have a customer that is using it for headphones, they have to be a Stax fan, AND they have to think it's better than every other Stax amp in the world before they buy it.  If MSB's design and pricing means that they can count the number of sales on one hand then that's their own fault and hopefully they learn their lesson.
  


purk said:


> I'm also in agreement with you but his review could be more informative to potential buyers by including amplifiers such as BHSE from Headamp Electronics & KGSSHV Carbon from Mjolnir Audio.  No...I don't expect the BHSE or KGSSHV to better it but at least we would know in relative terms how they stack up to this amp.   The pricetag is no doubt ridiculous for the MSB unit as one can buy a full set of the original Orpheus system and have enough money to complete the BHSE + SR009/SR007 for the same price as one MSB unit.


 
  
 It would be nice.  If people wanna post him their amps and headphones, I'm sure he'll do the comparison.  I think the aim of the game here though is to see if the MSB amp can sway him over to electrostats at all, since he has not been able to be convinced so far.


----------



## zolkis

Thesis.
 Statement products usually "make a name" so that more people would buy the cheaper stuff with technology "derived from" statement products.
 I think this is good: someone goes out and makes cost no object products, and we can have a basis of comparison.
 If someone comes and can make a good enough product for much less money, we all win.
  
 Antithesis.
 1. Prices are often going up because people getting used to higher prices, to the point when you start "paying for the price".
 2. For basis of comparison _per se_, we have live music, concert halls, and nature. Actually this sets the bar so high that almost all statement products are asymptotically approaching to more like 20% (and not 80%) of what would be needed...
  
 With all this being said, you decide yourself how much money you want to put in what.
  
 IMHO (staying in the Stax world) even an SR-Lambda or a Lambda Sig in a good system can deliver much of the musical experience of TOTL flagships, so the entry barrier is rather low. They are good enough that from that point I'd prefer talking about the music, rather than its reproduction.
  
 The next step up costs about 5 to 10 times more with a 007 or 009 and delivers maybe 10-20% more (ok, I know, qualitative differences are hard to quantify, this just illustrates a subjective point).
  
 But when we speak about tens of thousands, I would agree it is getting ridiculous in the present economic setting with the history of audio in mind. So they lose me. Some people lose it at the $1000 mark, and way more lose it at $200. Even if I'd have the money to buy statement stuff, I just prioritize things over gadgets. The crazy prices (you define "crazy" yourself) may lead to either accepting a compromise, or going DIY (with a different compromise). It's fantastic what DIY audio achieved especially in Japan, but elsewhere too, so I definitely applaud DIY, and thank the crazy prices for providing motivation for it...
  
 So in the end it makes little sense to talk about price - it helps more if we are concentrating on bare facts, technical and subjective comparisons, establishing basis of comparison, converging on listening evaluation, etc: all it takes to help personal decisions.


----------



## astrostar59

zolkis said:


> Thesis.
> Statement products usually "make a name" so that more people would buy the cheaper stuff with technology "derived from" statement products.
> I think this is good: someone goes out and makes cost no object products, and we can have a basis of comparison.
> If someone comes and can make a good enough product for much less money, we all win.
> ...


 

 Couple of things IMO. I think the jump from Lambda to 009 is much bigger. Not 10-20% more. I would say 50% better at least. The 007 and 009 was to me the first Stax HP that did both transparency and well / dynamics and BASS equally well and moved away from the airy light presentation of the earlier models (accept that the Omega was reported to also good but not heard fit).
  
 Acceptance of bigger price and the new 'normal' or the expectation all audio manufacturers will bring out a 'best we can do money no object' product does NOT necessarily equate to better products to the real world users. Is the HE1 going to have trickle down tech? Doubt it. The dev time and investment and the possibly greedy markup plus the fired up marketing machine seeing an opportunity for bigger profits. If indeed MSB sell only 5 of the Electrostatic amplifiers they may break even? No idea.
  
 I would like to see more technical specs on the MSB, who designed it, what they learn from other designs and how the 'bettered; them.  And of course reviews by users comparing to other top rated electrostatic amplifiers. Then we will know. 
  
 IMO I somehow doubt it will be 5 x better than any amp anyone has ever heard. But I am prepared to be convinced if that indeed proves to be the case...


----------



## JimL11

astrostar59 said:


> Couple of things IMO. I think the jump from Lambda to 009 is much bigger. Not 10-20% more. I would say 50% better at least. The 007 and 009 was to me the first Stax HP that did both transparency and well / dynamics and BASS equally well and moved away from the airy light presentation of the earlier models (accept that the Omega was reported to also good but not heard fit).
> 
> I would like to see more technical specs on the MSB, who designed it, what they learn from other designs and how the 'bettered; them.  And of course reviews by users comparing to other top rated electrostatic amplifiers. Then we will know.
> 
> IMO I somehow doubt it will be 5 x better than any amp anyone has ever heard. But I am prepared to be convinced if that indeed proves to be the case...


 
 5x better?  Try maybe 5-10% better.  Maybe.  Law of diminishing returns and all that.  Or maybe, no better.  Or maybe, worse.  That's why it's helpful to compare the MSB with a known amp such as a BHSE.  More expensive is not always better.


----------



## Nekochu

isquirrel said:


> Plenty of Heat Sinks on the Select, same chassis is used for the Headphone Amp.
> 
> 
> 
> As has been pointed out, I will not be able to compare against another Stat Headphone Amp, what I will be able to do is to compare it to TOTL Dynamic and Planar amps, valve & SS.


 

 Would love to hear your impressions on the MSB and you could always cast your mind back to the BHSE


----------



## mulder01

astrostar59 said:


> IMO I somehow doubt it will be 5 x better than any amp anyone has ever heard. But I am prepared to be convinced if that indeed proves to be the case...


 
  
 It won't be, just like a $5000 amp is not 5x better than a $1000 amp.  I thought diminishing returns was one of the most commonly known facts here.


----------



## Pale Rider

I am looking forward to Simon's impressions. Granted, I wish he was able to do a direct comparison between something like the BHSE or a Carbon. But even without that, we should be able to get a clue as to whether MSB is on the right track. Personally, though I love my Select, and MSB has a good track record with other amps, and seems to have excellent engineers, I am skeptical they hit a $37,000 home run on their first at-bat. And I too am a bit turned off by what seemed to be the primary value proposition on the new-and-improved web site, emphasizing the expense. Meh.


----------



## earthpeople

This was briefly discussed a few years back, but I wanted to check consensus on disconnecting headphones before turning off electrostatic amps. I've done it a few times in the last couple days just to see if anything happens, but it seems there's been no adverse effects. 
 I ask just to make sure I'm not long-term damaging my headphones or amps. I suspect it's fine due to the STAX connector not shorting like a regular TRS plug when inserting/removing. Of course, I stop any music and turn the volume to minimum before doing this. 
  
 My KGSSHV makes some popping sounds (fast then slows down, like stopping a fan or propeller) on power down if the headphones are connected, I'm guessing because there is no muting circuit, but again if there is no problem with disconnecting the headphones before powering off, then it's not really a concern as long as I do so.
  
 Thanks for any insights!


----------



## soren_brix

earthpeople said:


> This was briefly discussed a few years back, but I wanted to check consensus on disconnecting headphones before turning off electrostatic amps. I've done it a few times in the last couple days just to see if anything happens, but it seems there's been no adverse effects.
> I ask just to make sure I'm not long-term damaging my headphones or amps. I suspect it's fine due to the STAX connector not shorting like a regular TRS plug when inserting/removing. Of course, I stop any music and turn the volume to minimum before doing this.
> 
> My KGSSHV makes some popping sounds (fast then slows down, like stopping a fan or propeller) on power down if the headphones are connected, I'm guessing because there is no muting circuit, but again if there is no problem with disconnecting the headphones before powering off, then it's not really a concern as long as I do so.
> ...


 
 if you increase the size of the caps of the low voltage supply, the "strange sound" when powering down will disappear - nothing to be worried about though and probably not worth the hassle.
 Leaving the phones connected to the KGSShv wouldn't hurt.
 though you might benefit from shorting the legs of the plug with your thumb, to discharge the diaphragms, after disconnecting


----------



## joseph69

earthpeople said:


> soren_brix said:
> 
> 
> > Though you might benefit from shorting the legs of the plug with your thumb, to discharge the diaphragms, after disconnectin
> ...


 
 What you're hearing is the capacitors discharging and it's normal/safe.
  
 What is the benefit of shorting the pins with your thumb afterwards? I'm asking because I don't do this, so should I?
 Thanks.


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> What you're hearing is the capacitors discharging and it's normal/safe.
> 
> What is the benefit of shorting the pins with your thumb afterwards? I'm asking because I don't do this, so should I?
> Thanks.


 
 On all my previous Stat amps inc the KGSShv and current Carbon I unplug the phones before powering down. Also power up then plug in the phones. Sometimes I leave the amp on all day and night if I am about the house. But on any extended periods I always unplug the phones.
  
 I am not sure if this is required, but it seems that not sending 580v bias to the phones when not in use makes sense.


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> *On all my previous Stat amps inc the KGSShv and current Carbon I unplug the phones before powering down. Also power up then plug in the phones.* Sometimes I leave the amp on all day and night if I am about the house. But on any extended periods I always unplug the phones.
> 
> I am not sure if this is required, but it seems that not sending 580v bias to the phones when not in use makes sense.


 
 I've always done the opposite with all 3 of my stat amps (and my SS/tube amp as well)…plug in-power on/power off-unplug.
 What would be the reason for shorting out the pins to discharge the diaphragms? I would have_ thought_ the opposite so the diaphragm doesn't have to be fully charged again when used the next time? How long does it takes for the diaphragms to fully charge anyway? IIRC I read it takes a new pair of electrostatic HP's about 2 days to fully charge, so I'm _thinking _if you fully discharge the diaphragms it would take about 2 days to fully charge them again? Once again, I'm asking because I don't know so go easy.


----------



## chinsettawong

A good pair of electrostatic phones will take probably one or two seconds to charge up and will take less than a minute to discharge itself.


----------



## joseph69

chinsettawong said:


> A good pair of electrostatic phones will take probably one or two seconds to charge up and will take less than a minute to discharge itself.


 
 Thank you. 
 No that I think about it, the subject was about an older pair of estats I had read about.
 By "discharge itself" you mean without shorting the pins, correct?


----------



## soren_brix

joseph69 said:


> I've always done the opposite with all 3 of my stat amps (and my SS/tube amp as well)…plug in-power on/power off-unplug.
> What would be the reason for shorting out the pins to discharge the diaphragms? I would have_ thought_ the opposite so the diaphragm doesn't have to be fully charged again when used the next time? How long does it takes for the diaphragms to fully charge anyway? IIRC I read it takes a new pair of electrostatic HP's about 2 days to fully charge, so I'm _thinking _if you fully discharge the diaphragms it would take about 2 days to fully charge them again? Once again, I'm asking because I don't know so go easy.


 
 not sure if anyone knows why some phones build up residual charge, but it happens ... and for those I've had (very old Lambda, SR-X and SR-5's): charging, thumb-discharging, several times seems to cure the residual charge, and it charges up fully (at least identical in each channels) after some excercising.
 I use thumb-discharging occasionally, and sometimes leave the phones in the amp for days and so far haven't experience any problems.


----------



## joseph69

soren_brix said:


> not sure if anyone knows why some phones build up residual charge, but it happens ... and for those I've had (very old Lambda, SR-X and SR-5's): charging, thumb-discharging, several times seems to cure the residual charge, and it charges up fully (at least identical in each channels) after some excercising.
> I use thumb-discharging occasionally, and sometimes leave the phones in the amp for days and so far haven't experience any problems.


 
 So you're just discharging occasionally to eliminate the residual charge, which will dissipate over time by itself anyway?
 What would/could be wrong with residual charge…wouldn't it be just like a capacitor holding its charge and then loosing it over time?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## soren_brix

joseph69 said:


> So you're just discharging occasionally to eliminate the residual charge, which will dissipate over time by itself anyway?
> What would/could be wrong with residual charge…wouldn't it be just like a capacitor holding its charge and then loosing it over time?
> 
> Thanks.


 
 I dis-charge occasionally on my working-as-they-ought-to phones
 I do dis-charge/re-charge exercise quite a bit on those old ones I receive having a residual charge - had a pair of SR-5 that kept the charge for days, and never seemed to loose their charge fully.
  
 I *assume* that residual charge will impact the diaphragms ability to fully charge - they will work, but not to their full potential as some part of the diaphragm is not fully charged
  
 Only encountered the problem with a few (not all) <1978 sets I came around


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> So you're just discharging occasionally to eliminate the residual charge, which will dissipate over time by itself anyway?
> What would/could be wrong with residual charge…wouldn't it be just like a capacitor holding its charge and then loosing it over time?
> 
> Thanks.


 

 I wouldn't stress over it. It will discharge naturally as there is no capacitor to 'hold' the energy. I would say it is more important not to leave them plugged in 24/7 with the amp turned on.
 I did that with my 009s and one of the drivers failed. I don't know if that was the cause, but now I play safe and unplug.
  
 Also plug in after you switch on, then no chance of any thumps in the moment when everything comes alive.
  
 All this IMO and I have no technical data to back this up, only my 009 failure.


----------



## yates7592

astrostar59 said:


> I wouldn't stress over it. It will discharge naturally as there is no capacitor to 'hold' the energy. I would say it is more important not to leave them plugged in 24/7 with the amp turned on.
> I did that with my 009s and one of the drivers failed. I don't know if that was the cause, but now I play safe and unplug.
> 
> Also plug in after you switch on, then no chance of any thumps in the moment when everything comes alive.
> ...




I do the same. Totally OCD with my new 009's. Power on amp, plug in phones, turn volume up, listen, turn volume to zero, unplug phones; power off amp. I don't know if it helps or not as I've only had them 4 weeks so far. Give it another couple of years.


----------



## soren_brix

Quote:


astrostar59 said:


> It will discharge naturally as there is no capacitor to 'hold' the energy.


 
 gem of the day ;o)


----------



## VandyMan

I leave my 009s plugged into my BHSE always. I do turn down the volume when switching on/off though. Unless there is a technical reason to unplug, I would not do it because the more you use the connector, the more likely it could develop a fault or fail.


----------



## Quixote79

is no one turn up volume maximum to get clean pipes?


----------



## astrostar59

quixote79 said:


> is no one turn up volume maximum to get clean pipes?


 

 Ha Ha, clean your ears out maybe?


----------



## joseph69

soren_brix said:


> I dis-charge occasionally on my working-as-they-ought-to phones
> I do dis-charge/re-charge exercise quite a bit on those old ones I receive having a residual charge - had a pair of SR-5 that kept the charge for days, and never seemed to loose their charge fully.
> 
> I *assume* that residual charge will impact the diaphragms ability to fully charge - they will work, but not to their full potential as some part of the diaphragm is not fully charged
> ...


 
 OK, I see, your talking about experience with some older Stax models rather than newer.
  


astrostar59 said:


> I wouldn't stress over it. It will discharge naturally as there is no capacitor to 'hold' the energy. I would say it is more important not to leave them plugged in 24/7 with the amp turned on.
> I did that with my 009s and one of the drivers failed. I don't know if that was the cause, but now I play safe and unplug.
> Also plug in after you switch on, then no chance of any thumps in the moment when everything comes alive.
> 
> All this IMO and I have no technical data to back this up, only my 009 failure.


 
 No stress, I was just curious what/why and how others do what they do.
 I also know their are no capacitors to hold the charge…I was just relating the diaphragms charge/discharge to a capacitor. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I asked Justin if it was OK to plug/unplug the HP's in while the BHSE was powered on and he said it was fine, just minimize the volume. [size=x-small]I actually don't hear any noise through the HP's plugged into the BHSE while powering on/off, but then again, I'm a few feet away so their not on my head when I'm powering on/off. [/size]


----------



## Spork67

Finally, after a saga worthy of Homer himself:
  

  
  
 Amp has been repaired and at last I can hear my STAX gear.
  
 I'm starting to understand why these have such a devoted following.
  
 My STAX amp and HPs owe me a little over $1000 (AUD).
 My dynamic setup has cost me nearly double that - although the amp was brand new v's used for the STAX, and a fair chunk of it has been spent on aftermarket tubes and adapters.
 I haven't done any A/B-ing yet, but first impressions of the STAX gear are very favourable. Certainly the T1's / Elise setup does not sound twice as good.
  
 Now I need to try and convince myself I don't need anything better than what I already have - but I'm not very persuasive.
 I "fear" a higher quality e-stat amp (probably something with tubes in it) may be the next step - and of course if I spent the $ on that I'd _have _to buy some '007's to justify it...
 At least then I'd have fantastic sound without having to wear some of the ugliest plastic boxes known to man over my ears.


----------



## wuwhere

vandyman said:


> I leave my 009s plugged into my BHSE always. I do turn down the volume when switching on/off though. Unless there is a technical reason to unplug, I would not do it because the more you use the connector, the more likely it could develop a fault or fail.


 
  
 I believe its a good idea to disconnect/reconnect the connectors every so often, specially if they are of different metals.


----------



## Gazza

Have mercy on my wallet because I just put down a deposit for a SR-009 and a Woo WEE energiser. I went in to demo the 007 and the 009 fully intending to walk away with the 007 but I just couldn't believe how musical the 009 was. I didn't want to take them off my head. Man, and the bass was incredible. I have no idea what people are talking about when they say electrostatics are bass shy.


----------



## yates7592

Gazza, congrats, 009's are worth every penny, your wallet will heal. What amp were you using?


----------



## Gazza

I demo'd them through a Schiit Ragnarok (first time ever listening to the brand) and honestly they sounded underpowered. I will be using the WEE with my Densen B-150 amp which I hope pairs well.


----------



## zolkis

gazza said:


> I just couldn't believe how musical the 009 was. I didn't want to take them off my head.


 
  
 That's a nice experience, and no wonder it convinced you putting down the money . 
  
 People who've had multiple 009's over time tell the newer 009's sounded better/more musical/with less treble issues than the early batches.
  
 That would be a similar story we've seen with the 007Mk2/007A, i.e. the later models allegedly sound better. This one seems not to be due to sample variation; I myself tested 3 or 4 recent 007's and they were all good.
  
 Now I wonder if there may be a similar tendency indeed with the 009. Anyone able to confirm or deny based on experience? I've only heard 2 samples, mine and another (both from 2014) that sounded quite similar, without treble glare I'd cared for but I wonder if they've eventually got even better lately.


----------



## mulveling

I've got a 2014 and 2015; Purk's is earlier, probably 2012 (maybe earlier though?). There's no difference amongst these that could be construed as a revision (if anything the oldest is warmest; probably pad conditioning). I'm very skeptical of reports from people (especially Spritzer) that claim newer are better. Gotta have someone who actually likes the 009 hear a real difference on the same system at the same time; not just pulling from memory then going back to a 007.


----------



## TheAttorney

From memory, I think a while back David1361 said his older 009's sounded better and warmer than a new one at a mini meet.
  
 I've never heard any treble issues with any 009 I've tried. But my hearing tails off from about 12kHz, so that may be the reason why.
 The 009's do have a slight upper mid lift, which is fine on good recordings, but less than ideal (still not bad) on brighter recordings.
  
 When my local dealer finally gets a demo Utopia (after many weeks of false hopes), I'll do my TOTL Stax vs Dynamics almighty shoot out, where, amongst other things, I'll be able to compare my 007 Mk1 and 3 years-ish old 009's with their current equivalents. Keeps getting delayed because too many people are buying those damned Utopias without even listening to them (apparently).


----------



## Gazza

zolkis said:


> That's a nice experience, and no wonder it convinced you putting down the money .
> 
> People who've had multiple 009's over time tell the newer 009's sounded better/more musical/with less treble issues than the early batches.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not going to say they didn't have a brightness to them but it wasn't intrusive or detrimental. I also suspect the gear I was listening to it through wasn't ideal as the source was a Metrum Menuet that was switched on from cold (not sure how much use it's had) being fed my iPhone that was running through the camera adapter kit into some kind of USB converter. Add the fact that the Ragnarok was likely not a great match and I will imagine it will sound even better and more musical on my home system.


----------



## edstrelow

I decided to finally replace the cable on my SR007A which had been periodically breaking below the strain relief.   The first problem was locating a cable, since Yamasinc wouldn't provide parts for my gray market  phones.  Even EIFL,  my Japanese supplier couldn't send one but would arrange a replacement in Japan.  Finally, I found Electromod in the UK and what with no VAT and a post Brexit favorable exchange on the pound,  I got a reasonable deal.  
 
However, upon getting the cable I found that the fitting to the earcups was too large as evidently Stax made some changes over the years. However, It occurred to me that after a bit of trimming of the fitting it could be secured by small 2M screws. 
 
It was a pain in the ass job with hand tools,  a drill press would have been handy, but in the end I got it done and it makes  a very secure fastening.
 

The original fitting is on the left, the new one in the middle and the screw arrangement on the right.  The two screws in the middle are what I added. 
 They go through the two little tabs that stick out on top in the middle cable. I had to cut off the additional plastic on the tabs so that I could drill a hole in each tab for the screws.


----------



## isquirrel

The MSB Headphone Amp has been here since last Wednesday, end of post


----------



## Michgelsen

The build quality looks great. Now I'm curious whether the inside looks just as good.


----------



## zolkis

Wow. Welcome to the future . What are the black pair of mono's in the top left corner?


----------



## Rossliew

zolkis said:


> Wow. Welcome to the future . What are the black pair of mono's in the top left corner?


 

 Those are Woo Audio WA234 monos


----------



## Rossliew

Lovely rig there, Simon. Always a pleasure to see your well organised and neat rack


----------



## yates7592

Between that set up, one way or another it should sound pretty awesome!


----------



## Quixote79

edstrelow said:


> I decided to finally replace the cable on my SR007A which had been periodically breaking below the strain relief.   The first problem was locating a cable, since Yamasinc wouldn't provide parts for my gray market  phones.  Even EIFL,  my Japanese supplier couldn't send one but would arrange a replacement in Japan.  Finally, I found Electromod in the UK and what with no VAT and a post Brexit favorable exchange on the pound,  I got a reasonable deal.
> 
> However, upon getting the cable I found that the fitting to the earcups was too large as evidently Stax made some changes over the years. However, It occurred to me that after a bit of trimming of the fitting it could be secured by small 2M screws.
> 
> ...


 
 I surprise i not see no shortobane - why?


----------



## edstrelow

quixote79 said:


> I surprise i not see no shortobane - why?


 
 There is no place to put it here.  I have been applying it to the metal plate which fits over the transducer.
 .
  
 as well as on the headband.   
  
 See the other thread  http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/damping-mechanical-energy-distortion-of-stax-and-other-phones-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials  I am still trying to figure the best way to use this, things like what density of sorb, how and where to fasten it and the like.  Now there are at least 4 companies doing similar damping with their phones (Sennheiser, Grado, Audioquest and B&W) so I am fairly sure this is the direction of the future, whether it is with sorbothane or some other material  which speeds up the dissipation of mechanical energy in headphones.


----------



## astrostar59

edstrelow said:


> I decided to finally replace the cable on my SR007A which had been periodically breaking below the strain relief.   The first problem was locating a cable, since Yamasinc wouldn't provide parts for my gray market  phones.  Even EIFL,  my Japanese supplier couldn't send one but would arrange a replacement in Japan.  Finally, I found Electromod in the UK and what with no VAT and a post Brexit favorable exchange on the pound,  I got a reasonable deal.
> 
> However, upon getting the cable I found that the fitting to the earcups was too large as evidently Stax made some changes over the years. However, It occurred to me that after a bit of trimming of the fitting it could be secured by small 2M screws.
> 
> ...


 

 Good post. I did the same operation, but got 007A MK2/3 leads. I think your phones are MK1?


----------



## edstrelow

astrostar59 said:


> Good post. I did the same operation, but got 007A MK2/3 leads. I think your phones are MK1?


 
 No mine are definitely 007A.  Is the lead I got the same as yours? I am assuming it is for a later model.  I had no choice from the deaLER.


----------



## astrostar59

edstrelow said:


> No mine are definitely 007A.  Is the lead I got the same as yours? I am assuming it is for a later model.  I had no choice from the deaLER.


 

 Yes may be the 007A Japan issue but is the MK1. The cable entry was redesigned to avoid snag / weakness of the smaller MK1 design in the MK2s+.
  
 Mine was the wider cable fitment and it slotted right in. Maybe you can't buy MK 1 cables now? TBH if you have modified the cable mount area it is all good, the MK1's were a bit weak in that area.
  
 Small wires to solder I thought, then it took me 4 hours to remount the leather cups Ha Ha. Worked ok though. I keep an eye on what the dog is doing now as she bust it the last time by leaping on my lap!


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> Then it took me* 4 hours* to remount the leather cups Ha Ha.


 
 Really?
 I removed the springs from my 007Mk2 and it took me about a half hour to insert the leather from the ear pads between the discs and I'm legally blind (I have less than one eye). Not only that, I did a better job than Stax…but then again, I'm legally blind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Seriously, they do look better, their nice and equally fit around the circumference of the discs.


----------



## edstrelow

astrostar59 said:


> Yes may be the 007A Japan issue but is the MK1. The cable entry was redesigned to avoid snag / weakness of the smaller MK1 design in the MK2s+.
> 
> Mine was the wider cable fitment and it slotted right in. Maybe you can't buy MK 1 cables now? TBH if you have modified the cable mount area it is all good, the MK1's were a bit weak in that area.
> 
> Small wires to solder I thought, then it took me 4 hours to remount the leather cups Ha Ha. Worked ok though. I keep an eye on what the dog is doing now as she bust it the last time by leaping on my lap!


 
 So it seems as if the early 007A used the same cable entry entry system as the Mk1.  As you can see from the previous photo, It is definitely smaller than the newer replacement.
  
 Now that I look at it on the Electromod site, their pictures seem to show the original termination which looks smaller and does not have the two plastic tabs at the top.  However what they sent me is, I assume, the new version and that is why I had to do so much extra work. 
  
  
 There is a fairly easy way to put the leather cups back in place and that is using  by something like a butterknife to push the material back into the slot  where it is supposed to fit.  I can usually do it in about  2-3 minutes/cup.  You cannot use too much force or any kind of sharp knife or you may tear the leather. It does not speak well for Stax that they came up with such a wretched system for mounting the earcups on an expensive item.


----------



## joseph69

edstrelow said:


> There is a fairly easy way to put the leather cups back in place and that is using  by something like a *butter knife*.


 
 +1
 Exactly what I used.


----------



## isquirrel

rossliew said:


> Lovely rig there, Simon. Always a pleasure to see your well organised and neat rack


 

 Thank you, decided to take up MSB's generous offer and find out for myself.


----------



## justin w.

isquirrel said:


> The MSB Headphone Amp has been here since last Wednesday, I am leaving them on 24/7 on a lower volume than normal and using my favourite burn in disc. I am pretty sure they are both beginning to settle down now. I also have the newly arrived Utopia's (same day) and the new DHC Prion4S cable (which is fantastic) on the same burn in routine.
> 
> I am not going to commit myself to any listening impressions thus far other than to say its highly enjoyable. However I did take some photos which I thought you all might like to see so here they are:


 
  
 I like the teflon jacks!


----------



## Ali-Pacha

justin w. said:


> I like the teflon jacks!


 
 Yours ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## Mars Bar

Does the MSB use Justin's BHSE parts inside as well? MSB seem proud to show off internal images of their DACs, but not so much with this headphone amp.


----------



## isquirrel

mars bar said:


> Does the MSB use Justin's BHSE parts inside as well? MSB seem proud to show off internal images of their DACs, but not so much with this headphone amp.


 

 I spoke with MSB, as I expected they confirmed that they did all of the engineering work on the amp themselves, no outside source was used at any stage, contrary to some rumours here.
  
 I am not going to be removing the top as A its not mine and B if I do buy it I will immediately void the warranty. Quite frankly I don't care what's inside, only what it sounds like.


----------



## Mars Bar

Do you suggest MSB re-invented a new electrostatic amplifier ground up, with no outside influence, benchmark or reference?

Engineering is a very ambiguous word.


----------



## Spork67

mars bar said:


> Do you suggest MSB re-invented a new electrostatic amplifier ground up, with no outside influence, benchmark or reference?
> 
> Engineering is a very ambiguous word.


 
 From the pricing they should recover R&D by about the 3rd unit sold.


----------



## isquirrel

Well there's clearly no point in posting here anymore as I can see most of the comments are negative and based on price not on sound quality.


----------



## Spork67

spork67 said:


> mars bar said:
> 
> 
> > Do you suggest MSB re-invented a new electrostatic amplifier ground up, with no outside influence, benchmark or reference?
> ...


 
  
  


isquirrel said:


> Well there's clearly no point in posting here anymore as I can see most of the comments are negative and based on price not on sound quality.


 
  
 Oh c'mon mate.
 My tongue was firmly in cheek - even did a winky emoticon thing.
 I must have missed where you posted about the sound, will go back over the last few pages and read it.
 If it sounds as good as it looks it's going to be amazing.


----------



## Mars Bar

isquirrel said:


> Well there's clearly no point in posting here anymore as I can see most of the comments are negative and based on price not on sound quality.




To the contrary, I put sound quality above everything. However I've learnt price and sound quality are not always mutually exclusive. 

But please do not take offense at my posts, enjoy the music through your beautiful system.


----------



## astrostar59

isquirrel said:


> Well there's clearly no point in posting here anymore as I can see most of the comments are negative and based on price not on sound quality.


 

 Please keep posting. There is always going to be controversy with an amp selling for 5 x a BHSE or a DIY Kevin design. People feel insulted / challenged, or maybe just annoyed. But it is good to know what your findings are. I am as interested in how the Abyss performs v the 009 using the same DAC source (different amp of course).
  
 IMO the 009 is damb good, and most of my music sounds off the scale good. But there are still some annoying traits to some material that jars a bit. Maybe the recording quality, but a mid treble glair that spoils the illusion somewhat. I find the 009 with a good source and amp can expand the distance from superb recording to average to poor recordings. I am trying to remember but I believe my vinyl rig had some issues with some 70's vinyl, so it may not be just a digital thing.
  
 Also there is the fact a highly revealing and fast HP sat so close to the ear is always going to be a bit more brutal than a high end speaker system. Sat in the sweat spot with speakers in front of you seems to offer a more forgiving presentation. I play quite loud on my 009s, as I like the drama of music, and I guess that will emphasise the failures of weaker recordings. I find the 009s need to come on song a bit, played a lower listening levels seems to make them too ethereal and floaty? Difficult to describe in words. But the 009 isn't perfect, what is? It needs taming a bit with a warmish / smooth sounding DAC. It won't sound it's best with a detail freak DAC for example. I hope the Select isn't that type of DAC i.e. treble over emphasis. It is however the best HP I have heard to date.


----------



## Pokemonn

darn i found i waste many time for audio technica long 5m tosling optical cable today. i found long 5m optical cable degrade sound quality very much, i sound it sound very dull with SR-009.
 now i use 1.5m amazon basics optical toslink cable between iMac and DAC(fostex HP-A8). its sound sharp and musical and just about right with 009 so far.
  
 warning. don't use LONG optical cable for SR-009. 009 can hear optical cable length difference!
  
 hope this someones help.


----------



## yates7592

Thanks! On a related subject, what analog interconnects do people find work well with 009?


----------



## mulveling

yates7592 said:


> Thanks! On a related subject, what analog interconnects do people find work well with 009?


 
 Yeah we're treading into really bad territory here with cable discussions in a Stax thread. That said, I love my Audioquest Sky cables (silver) with BHSE/009. I do feel it makes a difference -- subtle, but there.


----------



## astrostar59

pokemonn said:


> darn i found i waste many time for audio technica long 5m tosling optical cable today. i found long 5m optical cable degrade sound quality very much, i sound it sound very dull with SR-009.
> now i use 1.5m amazon basics optical toslink cable between iMac and DAC(fostex HP-A8). its sound sharp and musical and just about right with 009 so far.
> 
> warning. don't use LONG optical cable for SR-009. 009 can hear optical cable length difference!
> ...


 
  
 I think the optical link from an iMac or any Mac is weak. You should use USB really. Try that and let us know, it should be better sounding. Ethernet is better still but you need another box for that.


----------



## astrostar59

yates7592 said:


> Thanks! On a related subject, what analog interconnects do people find work well with 009?


 

 I use Audio Note AN-V interconnects, not too expensive but really clear and dynamic. I use them on the SPDIF inputs, and between my DAC and Carbon and also my DAC and speaker Power amp.


----------



## yates7592

Thanks both. Yep, cables and Stax is double-edged can of worms for sure. But whether you "believe" in cables or not, 009 would be one guaranteed set of audio transducers to report back any differences in cable A vs cable B.


----------



## Quixote79

astrostar59 said:


> Good post. I did the same operation, but got 007A MK2/3 leads. I think your phones are MK1?


 

 do all stax not have 3 leads?? all mine does


----------



## Pokemonn

astrostar59 said:


> pokemonn said:
> 
> 
> > darn i found i waste many time for audio technica long 5m tosling optical cable today. i found long 5m optical cable degrade sound quality very much, i sound it sound very dull with SR-009.
> ...


 

 Yes i agree, sadly currently my dac (fostex HP-A8) can not accept current mac Sierra USB output(due to DACs firmware bug) so I'm waiting Fostex firmware update.
 anyway Thank you very much for your advices.


----------



## rgs9200m

yates7592 said:


> Thanks! On a related subject, what analog interconnects do people find work well with 009?


 
 Stealth Indra (or better yet, Sakra).
 This goes for the SR007, too.


----------



## mulveling

mars bar said:


> Does the MSB use Justin's BHSE parts inside as well? MSB seem proud to show off internal images of their DACs, but not so much with this headphone amp.


 
 There's an internal pic on their website if you scroll down a bit here: http://www.msbtechnology.com/amplifiers/headphone-amp-features/
 Looks like a pair of Lundahl transformers right after the inputs. If they were silver wire Lundahls they'd be pretty expensive (like 2K), but there's no indication that they are. The custom chassis looks like the highest-cost part in the amp. But hey -- SILVER/BLACK/GOLD -- your CHOICE, for only thirty-something K's!


----------



## AnakChan

Whilst the topic of networking technologies for use in audio is interesting, we're drifting off topic. This is a Stax thread.


----------



## astrostar59

anakchan said:


> Whilst the topic of networking technologies for use in audio is interesting, we're drifting off topic. This is a Stax thread.


 

 Sorry, I answered the guy as it was disinformation (which I hate). Back on subject now sir.
  
 iSquirrel is testing the MSB Electrostatic amp and I am very interested in how good that amp is, and also how the 009 compares with his Abyss and the new Utopia.


----------



## ctemkin

I cannot fault you for not wanting to get more flack, but it would be great if you could ignore those responses and let us know what you think about the amp and the 009.  You seem to be someone who is interested in listening to the best sound available, and your views would be worth knowing.


----------



## JimL11

mulveling said:


> There's an internal pic on their website if you scroll down a bit here: http://www.msbtechnology.com/amplifiers/headphone-amp-features/
> Looks like a pair of Lundahl transformers right after the inputs. If they were silver wire Lundahls they'd be pretty expensive (like 2K), but there's no indication that they are. The custom chassis looks like the highest-cost part in the amp. But hey -- SILVER/BLACK/GOLD -- your CHOICE, for only thirty-something K's!


 

 Other than the transformer input, a couple other curious things.  First, there doesn't seem to be anything attached to those fancy heat-sink looking jobbies, i.e., where are the power output transistors?  Second, there doesn't seem to be any regulated power supply, just 10 big electrolytic power supply caps.  Even my SRX Plus modification, which was designed to be low parts cost, high value amp, has a regulated power supply.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

jiml11 said:


> Other than the transformer input, a couple other curious things.  First, there doesn't seem to be anything attached to those fancy heat-sink looking jobbies, i.e., where are the power output transistors?  Second, there doesn't seem to be any regulated power supply, just 10 big electrolytic power supply caps.  Even my SRX Plus modification, which was designed to be low parts cost, high value amp, has a regulated power supply.


 
  
 Looks like a more than 20 times profit, including the sand casted, CNC milled aluminum chassis.


----------



## astrostar59

jiml11 said:


> Other than the transformer input, a couple other curious things.  First, there doesn't seem to be anything attached to those fancy heat-sink looking jobbies, i.e., where are the power output transistors?  Second, there doesn't seem to be any regulated power supply, just 10 big electrolytic power supply caps.  Even my SRX Plus modification, which was designed to be low parts cost, high value amp, has a regulated power supply.


 

 True. Confusing indeed. The photo shows only 50% of the internal area though, the left front side is out of shot. Over at the other place - more comments. 
  
 My original question was about the heat sinks being big enough, but if they are not even used? Only the base of the chassis used then?
  
 Also the specs on the MSB site, no distortion figures, and how much current swing is it?
  
 MSB has to understand the interest here, you can't release a 37K electrostatic amp at this top of the price range (most expensive ever for a single amp electrostatic amp?) and not have folk asking about the design and how good it is / should be. We need some more info from MSB on the design of it really, and more feedback from owners / users. I don't trust magazine reviews so much unless it was Inner Fidelity.


----------



## JimL11

astrostar59 said:


> The photo shows only 50% of the internal area though, the left front side is out of shot. Over at the other place - more comments.


 
  
 I thought about that too, but if you look at the internal shot, you can see the power inlet socket right at the bottom middle, and if you look at a shot of the back panel , the power inlet is right in the middle, so it doesn't look like there is anything significant missing from the internal photo.


----------



## kevin gilmore

you do have to give msb credit for being the second push pull electrostatic amp out there. Koss esp950 being the first one.
  
 newer parts make this much easier than some of my very complicated previous attempts.
 ( I should have been paying attention...)
  
 but I think I  have a better version that really is dc coupled, no input transformers, current feedback et all.
 and a rational input impedance. Thanks to Jason even if he does not know about it yet.  posted in the usual place


----------



## JimL11

isquirrel said:


> I spoke with MSB, as I expected they confirmed that they did all of the engineering work on the amp themselves, no outside source was used at any stage, contrary to some rumours here.
> 
> I am not going to be removing the top as A its not mine and B if I do buy it I will immediately void the warranty. Quite frankly I don't care what's inside, only what it sounds like.


 
  


isquirrel said:


> Quite frankly I don't care what's inside, only what it sounds like.


 
  
 I blame this attitude on the late Harry Pearson of The Absolute Sound (only partly kidding).  J Gordon Holt had some technical knowledge, HP was the founder of the "I don't know and I don't care what's inside" school of reviewing (also the answer to the question, what's worse, ignorance or apathy).  Knowing what's inside won't necessarily tell you whether it sounds good or not, but it can help, just as knowing that a pushrod engine isn't nearly as sophisticated as an double overhead cam (DOHC).  Not every DOHC engine will beat every pushrod, but the best DOHC will beat the best pushrod.  Also, having some knowledge about what's inside reduces the chances of being ripped off by the equivalent of a Sony walkman inside a fancy case - I'm not saying that's what's going on here, just a general comment.
  
  


isquirrel said:


> Well there's clearly no point in posting here anymore as I can see most of the comments are negative and based on price not on sound quality.


 
 What do you expect?  Someone with no experience in the field comes out with an amp that is more than 5X the price of any other on the market, and an internals picture which doesn't exactly inspire confidence that it is a world-beater.  Look, suppose you think it sounds like crap - is it the headphones or the amp that's at fault?  Since you just bought an SR009 and don't have much experience with stat headphones or other stat amps, who's to know?  
  
 On the other hand, suppose you think it's the bee's knees, best you've ever heard?  Is it that the headphones and amp are the best?  Or are the headphones so awesome that they sound great even with a less than best amp?  Who's to know whether you could get as good or better sound with a BHSE for a fraction of the cost?  Or, for that matter, a KGSS, or even, since you seem to like tubes, my SRX Plus?  Could any or all of them sound better than the MSB?  It's a possibility.  What is missing, in other words, is context.  Yes, you can compare a stat set-up with a non-stat set-up.  What you can't do is compare between stat amps to know whether what you're listening to is the best stat set-up.  I certainly would not conclude that the MSB is the best of the bunch because it is the most expensive.  Maybe it's just the most overpriced. 
  
 Look, it's great that MSB is willing to loan you an amp to satisfy your curiosity.  But without significant experience in the stat amp market, which is a specialized niche market, the usefulness of your impressions is going to be very limited.  Because most people in this forum already own Stax headphones, and for them, the most relevant question is: how does this compare with what I have now, e.g. KGSS, KGST, Carbon, BHSE, Liquid Lightning, etc.  And if you haven't compared those amps, there is little or no information you can add, honestly.


----------



## astrostar59

jiml11 said:


> And if you haven't compared those amps, there is little or no information you can add, honestly.


 
 Partly agree. But to be fair to iSquirrel he has the Abyss and Utopia in his house so a comparison to those top respected HPs would be possible. Obviously all in his opinion, but I do read with interest users opinions. I hope he does post about it. It does help, and as they mass up you may get an 'idea' of how good an amp or HP is. I buy after hearing stuff, but the road to getting there with users posts can be helpful.
  
 There is more technical knowledge over at the others place I admit. I think it is all good TBH.
  
 What I don't follow is fan boy thread that repeat stuff too much. That won't happen with this product as hardly anyone can / will afford it or buy it. It only works with the Select DAC to is a niche within a niche.


----------



## kevin gilmore

> Originally Posted by *JimL11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Not every DOHC engine will beat every pushrod, but the best DOHC will beat the best pushrod.


 
  
 after owning a number of each, I completely disagree with this.
  
 DOHC is a bunch more parts, less reliability, and more weight and a larger vertical footprint.
 GM has the LT4, 650 hp, and the new LT5 with 750 hp.
 dodge has the hellcat engine at 707 hp
 ford has the flat plane crank engine more than 650 hp
 all 3 have heaping bunches of torque, something the dohc engines don't seem to be able to do.
 all are single cam pushrod. all have variable valve timing, something a fair bit harder on dohc engines.
  
 how it relates to electrostatic amps is simple, very rarely does an additional pile of parts make it any better.
 I certainly know how to make stupidly expensive all DHT amps, but they don't actually perform any better than
 the less complicated stuff.
  
 With respect to the input impedance on the MSB amp, any modern solid state preamp should have no trouble
 driving the 75 ohm load. Everything I do is still 50 ohm based. So you don't need to get the MSB dac to drive it
 unless you like the looks of the 2 pieces together


----------



## Sko0byDoo

astrostar59 said:


> Also the specs on the MSB site, no distortion figures, and how much current swing is it?


 
  
 Another spec. is baffling:
  
  

Frequency Response​0Hz-20Khz, ±0.8dB
  
 0Hz?  Just run DC thru and measured the resistance?
  
 *** Had been addressed by Dr. Gilmore at the other site ***


----------



## JimL11

kevin gilmore said:


> after owning a number of each, I completely disagree with this.
> 
> DOHC is a bunch more parts, less reliability, and more weight and a larger vertical footprint.
> GM has the LT4, 650 hp, and the new LT5 with 750 hp.
> ...


 

 Um, OK, poor analogy.  I was thinking that in F1 racing you don't see pushrod engines (I could be wrong or out of date on this), although now they are going to hybrids, which is even more parts.


----------



## Gazza

Question about burn-in with electrostatic headphones. Would I be correct in surmising that when I receive my 009 I don't need to worry about running them in for 50-100 hours? I'm guessing the only aspect that might change over time would be the cable attached to the headphones but that's it.


----------



## AnakChan

gazza said:


> Question about burn-in with electrostatic headphones. Would I be correct in surmising that when I receive my 009 I don't need to worry about running them in for 50-100 hours? I'm guessing the only aspect that might change over time would be the cable attached to the headphones but that's it.


No burn-in required for the SR-009. But I do recommend running in for awhile to see if you have a channel imbalance instead.


----------



## Gazza

anakchan said:


> No burn-in required for the SR-009. But I do recommend running in for awhile to see if you have a channel imbalance instead.


 
  
 Alright, I'll try when I receive mine. Is it still a problem or was that more for the original ones?
  
 EDIT: Also, does anyone know if there's any loss of sound quality using the STAX SRE925S 2.5M extension cable?


----------



## rgs9200m

Yep, the Stax extension cable has always dumbed down the sound for me all the way back to my first Stax Lambdas and SR007 mk1s in 1999 and all my Stax setups ever since. 
 It's a real pain to have to sit near the amp, but that's the way it is for me. Sad but true.


----------



## mulder01

jiml11 said:


> I blame this attitude on the late Harry Pearson of The Absolute Sound (only partly kidding).  J Gordon Holt had some technical knowledge, HP was the founder of the "I don't know and I don't care what's inside" school of reviewing (also the answer to the question, what's worse, ignorance or apathy).  Knowing what's inside won't necessarily tell you whether it sounds good or not, but it can help, just as knowing that a pushrod engine isn't nearly as sophisticated as an double overhead cam (DOHC).  Not every DOHC engine will beat every pushrod, but the best DOHC will beat the best pushrod.  Also, having some knowledge about what's inside reduces the chances of being ripped off by the equivalent of a Sony walkman inside a fancy case - I'm not saying that's what's going on here, just a general comment.
> 
> What do you expect?  Someone with no experience in the field comes out with an amp that is more than 5X the price of any other on the market, and an internals picture which doesn't exactly inspire confidence that it is a world-beater.  Look, suppose you think it sounds like crap - is it the headphones or the amp that's at fault?  Since you just bought an SR009 and don't have much experience with stat headphones or other stat amps, who's to know?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes Jim, we know it's expensive.  So is the new HiFiMan amp.  If someone bought one of those but didn't have a range of amps to compare it with, do you not want to hear any comments or impressions from them either?  I think a childish "GOOD! I DON'T EVEN CARE WHAT YOU THINK ANYWAY!" post like the one above is probably the final nail in the coffin for anyone who had hoped for some sort of comments about it.
  
 As far as I know, Simon has worked and/or been involved in high end audio for a long time and has had a lot of experience with systems even well into the seven figure range.  He spends a lot of time with everything he owns and is a very critical listener and I believe makes notes on what he hears for later reference.  He has heard (but not owned) 009 systems in the past, but has bought every flagship planar, a number of dacs/amps/servers/cables etc but never has he chosen to allocate any of that spending to adding an electrostat element to the system.  Hypothetically, if he said that he has now chosen to keep the MSB amp and 009, and replace his Utopia and Woo 234 with it (or something), that says a fair bit in my book, and even a comparison to some of the world's best planar setups like Dave + Abyss would be useful to a lot of people.  He is also a reviewer, so I would imagine that he knows how to do a write up that will give you at least SOME sort of useful information, without being able to get a direct comparison to the Blue Hawaii.  Every second post I read on here is curiosity on some level about this amp.  Then someone actually gets one and you pretty much tell them to f-off if they don't have a BHSE or one of Kev's amps (which he refused to make Simon a few pages ago).
  
 Were you going to buy a MSB dac/amp combo regardless of what he says anyway?  Probably not.  But sometimes it's just nice to read about this stuff.  IMO.  Oh well.


----------



## TheAttorney

rgs9200m said:


> Yep, the Stax extension cable has always dumbed down the sound for me all the way back to my first Stax Lambdas and SR007 mk1s in 1999 and all my Stax setups ever since.
> It's a real pain to have to sit near the amp, but that's the way it is for me. Sad but true.


 

 Yes, but the 925 cable is better than earlier/cheaper models. And the extra freedom of movement for me more than compensates for the slight SQ loss.
 Just don't get all OCD about it Gazza and do A/B comparisons and you'll be fine. There are probably many more things in your hifi chain that will have a bigger impact.


----------



## VandyMan

theattorney said:


> Yes, but the 925 cable is better than earlier/cheaper models. And the extra freedom of movement for me more than compensates for the slight SQ loss.
> Just don't get all OCD about it Gazza and do A/B comparisons and you'll be fine. There are probably many more things in your hifi chain that will have a bigger impact.


 
  
 I have the very long STAX extension cable -- the one with silver wire. I have not done a real A/B comparison vs no extension, but I have used my headphones both with and without and do not hear any obvious difference.


----------



## rgs9200m

theattorney said:


> Yes, but the 925 cable is better than earlier/cheaper models. And the extra freedom of movement for me more than compensates for the slight SQ loss.
> Just don't get all OCD about it Gazza and do A/B comparisons and you'll be fine. There are probably many more things in your hifi chain that will have a bigger impact.


 
 Fair enough, thanks. I'm not sure when this version of cable was introduced but the version I tried last (and still own) was the one I got new in 2011 with the 009. Unfortunately, I did do A/B comparisons (3 different amps, 3 different Stax phones) and something just doesn't sound right,
 especially clarity in the bass and a strange sense that something is masked. It was always definitely enough to annoy me (yep, I probably am OCD about this, so I sit corrected on that).
 Current system: EMM xds1 cdp/dac, KGSS-HV mini w/Sanyo 400v, SR007 mk2.5 + SR009 headphones.


----------



## JimL11

mulder01 said:


> Yes Jim, we know it's expensive.  So is the new HiFiMan amp.  If someone bought one of those but didn't have a range of amps to compare it with, do you not want to hear any comments or impressions from them either?  I think a childish "GOOD! I DON'T EVEN CARE WHAT YOU THINK ANYWAY!" post like the one above is probably the final nail in the coffin for anyone who had hoped for some sort of comments about it.
> 
> As far as I know, Simon has worked and/or been involved in high end audio for a long time and has had a lot of experience with systems even well into the seven figure range.  He spends a lot of time with everything he owns and is a very critical listener and I believe makes notes on what he hears for later reference.  He has heard (but not owned) 009 systems in the past, but has bought every flagship planar, a number of dacs/amps/servers/cables etc but never has he chosen to allocate any of that spending to adding an electrostat element to the system.  Hypothetically, if he said that he has now chosen to keep the MSB amp and 009, and replace his Utopia and Woo 234 with it (or something), that says a fair bit in my book, and even a comparison to some of the world's best planar setups like Dave + Abyss would be useful to a lot of people.  He is also a reviewer, so I would imagine that he knows how to do a write up that will give you at least SOME sort of useful information, without being able to get a direct comparison to the Blue Hawaii.  Every second post I read on here is curiosity on some level about this amp.  Then someone actually gets one and you pretty much tell them to f-off if they don't have a BHSE or one of Kev's amps (which he refused to make Simon a few pages ago).
> 
> Were you going to buy a MSB dac/amp combo regardless of what he says anyway?  Probably not.  But sometimes it's just nice to read about this stuff.  IMO.  Oh well.


 

 Yeah, sorry for sounding like a dick.  Incidentally, I just bought a used BHSE and SR009 out of curiosity to compare with my SRX Plus and SR007.  Since I designed the SRX Plus modification I probably won't post anything on the BHSE simply because I have a vested ego interest.  I may or may not post something about the SR009, but it's just my opinion after all.
  
 For me, I'll read a reviewer if he (she) is a good read even if I don't agree with them, or if thy are able to compare what I have with what I'm interested in.  It's not so much that I wouldn't read anything he had to say about the MSB amp, but as I said, without comparisons to other amps...    Simon is relatively new to electrostatic headphones so regardless of his experience in other areas he is something of a newbie.  It's like this: suppose a reviewer has listened exclusively to cone speakers and only heard Quad electrostatics at shows.  Now he has the Quads at home for the first time with super expensive amps made by a company that has never sold amps before.  You have had Quads in your system for 20 years with carefully selected moderately priced amps, and are curious about possibly upgrading to better amps.  How much stock would you put in that reviewer's opinion of those amps, if he had never heard Quads with your amps.
  
 After all, a lot of people on this particular forum have compared Stax with other TOTL headphones and they are here presumably because they still like them best.  So they are more interested in maximizing their choice than in jumping to another brand.  
  
 I have been at this informally for a while myself - I have had Quad ESLs since the 1980s, and I heard the Infinity IRS and Apogee Divas at a NYC Stereophile show in the late 80s. I've read Stereophile since before then, and I still get it for fun, but with experience I rely less on what other people say and more on what I hear when I make a buying decision.  As someone said, relying on someone else to determine what to buy is like asking someone else who you should marry.
  
  
 And by the way, I wouldn't make anything of Kevin's "refusal" to make him an amp.  AFAIK, Kevin designs and builds amps as a hobby.  He's not in the business of making amps for anybody.  If Simon was serious about reviewing the MSB he would do what I did and buy a BHSE - if he doesn't like it, I'm sure he would be able to sell it at the same price.


----------



## Jones Bob

rgs9200m said:


> Fair enough, thanks. I'm not sure when this version of cable was introduced but the version I tried last (and still own) was the one I got new in 2011 with the 009. Unfortunately, I did do A/B comparisons (3 different amps, 3 different Stax phones) and something just doesn't sound right,
> especially clarity in the bass and a strange sense that something is masked. It was always definitely enough to annoy me (yep, I probably am OCD about this, so I sit corrected on that).




FYI.... The earlier and current less expensive all copper conductor cables are identified with white markings (solid and dashed striping) on the outermost wires. 

The newer cables with silver plated conductors have yellow markings. 

I have not heard the less expensive cable in my system, but own and have used the newer 2.5 meter one on occasion. Can only report to hearing a very minor difference in SQ compared to not using it. The music just loses a little "something", nothing major. Very minor, maybe even placebo. I can quickly adapt to it if need be.


----------



## Gazza

I think in the meantime I'll sit closer to the amp rather than getting the extension cable. Maybe I'll buy a beanbag.


----------



## yates7592

Never heard the Stax extension cable, but I can only imagine it could be detrimental to sound quality to some degree. Like any system, another cable, and an extra connector, is likely to degrade overall sound. When I used to own dynamic headphones and indulged myself in expensive cables, I always bought 3m length. That always felt like a bit of overkill at the time, but I always reckoned better more than than not enough. So 2.5m doesn't feel like a big compromise to me and if I have sit a little closer to the amp in order to get the best sound possible then so be it.


----------



## Gazza

Picked up my SR-009 and WOO WEE energiser today. Was going to wait 'til my birthday in a few weeks but screw that. Hooked everything up and have listened to a bunch of tracks to test the thing. Definitely a very different sound that I'm used to, especially coming off from my HD800. Very, very detailed and very crisp. A very forward sound that'll take some getting used to but they have an eerie almost magical quality to them. Don't think I've ever heard recordings that I'm familiar with sound like this before.Very, very interesting thus far.


----------



## astrostar59

gazza said:


> Picked up my SR-009 and WOO WEE energiser today. Was going to wait 'til my birthday in a few weeks but screw that. Hooked everything up and have listened to a bunch of tracks to test the thing. Definitely a very different sound that I'm used to, especially coming off from my HD800. Very, very detailed and very crisp. A very forward sound that'll take some getting used to but they have an eerie almost magical quality to them. Don't think I've ever heard recordings that I'm familiar with sound like this before.Very, very interesting thus far.


 

 Don't want to be negative, but be very careful using the Woo Wee, it has popped up various forums as having fried the HPs attached to them. Did around and you will find the posts.


----------



## VandyMan

yates7592 said:


> Never heard the Stax extension cable, but I can only imagine it could be detrimental to sound quality to some degree.


 
  
 You certainly have a good imagination.


----------



## soren_brix

vandyman said:


> yates7592 said:
> 
> 
> > Never heard the Stax extension cable, but I can only imagine it could be detrimental to sound quality to some degree.
> ...


 
  
 The 'detoriation' of the sound will depend on how loud one is listning and how powerful the amp is ...


----------



## Gazza

astrostar59 said:


> Don't want to be negative, but be very careful using the Woo Wee, it has popped up various forums as having fried the HPs attached to them. Did around and you will find the posts.


 
  
 Could you link those posts? When I researched the WEE I couldn't find anything negative about it and saw a number of users and professional reviewers suggesting it as a viable alternative. Surely WOO wouldn't sell a defective product. The thing seems really well made.


----------



## kevin gilmore

The woo is like every other single transformer box out there. There is no protection of any kind.
  
 Drive it with an amplifier that is too powerful (and that is fairly easy) and it will produce voltage swings well in excess of the 2320 VPPSS that the headphones can handle.
  
 There are additional issues.


----------



## Gazza

kevin gilmore said:


> The woo is like every other single transformer box out there. There is no protection of any kind.
> 
> Drive it with an amplifier that is too powerful (and that is fairly easy) and it will produce voltage swings well in excess of the 2320 VPPSS that the headphones can handle.
> 
> There are additional issues.


 
  
 Thanks for the reply. I'm using a Densen B-150. Below are the specs:
  
 2 x 100W into 8ohm/200W into 4ohm. 750 VA power supply size. 130,000 uf storage capacity.
  
 Should I trade in the Woo WEE for something like the Stax SRM-007T MK2? I'm really, really loathe to spend anymore money than I already have but I don't want to damage the 009.


----------



## JimL11

So, on the other web site an MSB engineer posted some info on their amp.  The power transistors are attached to the heat-sink on the back side of the board, it does have a regulated supply, and power consumption is about 60 watts, which is lower than the Carbon, and definitely lower than the BHSE or DIY T2 even if you leave out the consumption of the filament supplies for the latter two.  Distortion is said to be 0.02% at 440Vrms.  Freq response at 100 Vrms out is +/- 0.8 dB dB from 5 Hz to 20 kHz driving one SR009.  Just as an example, my SRX Plus is +/1 0.1 dB from below 10 Hz to 40 kHz at 100 Vrms out into a 100 pf cap load despite its cap coupling between input and output sections.


----------



## JimL11

gazza said:


> Could you link those posts? When I researched the WEE I couldn't find anything negative about it and saw a number of users and professional reviewers suggesting it as a viable alternative. Surely WOO wouldn't sell a defective product. The thing seems really well made.


 

 No personal experience, but the other issue that has been reported is the the HV bias supply in some samples doesn't have a 5 megohm protective resistor after the last cap.  This can lead to the cap discharging into the diaphragm and damaging it.


----------



## VandyMan

> vandyman said:
> 
> 
> > yates7592 said:
> ...


 
  


 I was poking fun at yates7592 for offering an opinion without ever having heard a STAX extension cable.


----------



## Tinkerer

soren_brix said:


> The 'detoriation' of the sound will depend on how loud one is listning and how powerful the amp is ...


 
  
 Correct me if I'm wrong but it's the additional capacitance of the cable making the headphones harder to drive causing the difference, right?


----------



## soren_brix

tinkerer said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but it's the additional capacitance of the cable making the headphones harder to drive causing the difference, right?


 
 Yes.


----------



## soren_brix

vandyman said:


> offering an opinion without ever having heard


 
 thought it was the main occupation around here?


----------



## astrostar59

soren_brix said:


> thought it was the main occupation around here?


 

 Users who own gear have as valued an opinion on how it sounds, and the ones on here who post and HAVE heard it are obvious. Plenty of those who post opinions without hearing stuff, here and at all the forums. Just find the posts that matter.


----------



## kevin gilmore

gazza said:


> Thanks for the reply. I'm using a Densen B-150. Below are the specs:
> 
> 2 x 100W into 8ohm/200W into 4ohm. 750 VA power supply size. 130,000 uf storage capacity.
> 
> Should I trade in the Woo WEE for something like the Stax SRM-007T MK2? I'm really, really loathe to spend anymore money than I already have but I don't want to damage the 009.


 

 I would be very careful with the volume knob. That amp is at least 3 times more power than you need.
  
 if you have a spl meter, definitely keep the peaks under 95db.
  
 The stax extension cable i have here (one of the old ones) measures at about 35pf. So about 1/3 the load of a set of headphones.


----------



## Gazza

kevin gilmore said:


> I would be very careful with the volume knob. That amp is at least 3 times more power than you need.
> 
> if you have a spl meter, definitely keep the peaks under 95db.
> 
> The stax extension cable i have here (one of the old ones) measures at about 35pf. So about 1/3 the load of a set of headphones.


 
  
 The Densen uses a high-precision 200-step attenuator in 0.5 dB steps which gives me precise control so I'm really careful with it. Of the 200 steps I normally keep the volume at 115-125 step mark. I don't have a SPL meter but I should probably buy one to try what you've suggested. 
  
 Thanks for your feedback.


----------



## mulder01

That sounds so weird... I don't really know how the Stax phones in particular work, but the length of the cable should be almost irrelevant if you're measuring capacitive reactance because it is dictated by the distance between the conductors and the type of material in between them rather than the length of the conductors, right?
  
 Like on a 75ohm coax cable, the impedance (which is mostly capacitive reactance) is 75ohms.  If that cable is 10m long, it's 75ohms, cut the cable in half and measure each half, they are both 75ohms.  Do a good job of joining five 10m pieces of 75ohm coax together and measure it and it will be 75ohms.  So the impedance of the cable stays the same regardless of length.
  
 Am I missing something with the stax cable?


----------



## JimL11

Yes, you are missing something.  You are confusing cable capacitance with characteristic cable impedance.  Leaving out resistance for a minute, any length of cable has both a capacitance and an inductance.  
  
 A 75 ohm cable has its inductance and capacitance balanced in such a way that its impedance is RESISTIVE to AC signals.  If you double the length of the cable, the capacitance DOUBLES, but so does the inductance so they continue to balance regardless of length.  The 75 ohms does NOT refer to the capacitance of the cable, which increases proportional to its length.  If you want a more technical discussion, take a look at the Wikipedia article on coaxial cables, specifically under the section on Derived Electrical Parameters.


----------



## Jones Bob

gazza said:


> I don't have a SPL meter but I should probably buy one to try what you've suggested.




There are SPL apps for your smartphone.


----------



## mulder01

jiml11 said:


> Yes, you are missing something.  You are confusing cable capacitance with characteristic cable impedance.  Leaving out resistance for a minute, any length of cable has both a capacitance and an inductance.
> 
> A 75 ohm cable has its inductance and capacitance balanced in such a way that its impedance is RESISTIVE to AC signals.  If you double the length of the cable, the capacitance DOUBLES, but so does the inductance so they continue to balance regardless of length.  The 75 ohms does NOT refer to the capacitance of the cable, which increases proportional to its length.  If you want a more technical discussion, take a look at the Wikipedia article on coaxial cables, specifically under the section on Derived Electrical Parameters.


 
  
 Hmm, that doesn't really explain anything though. Like you say, probably not the right place for this discussion.  
  
 If people claim to hear a difference with the extension cable then we'll leave it at that.  I haven't tried it.


----------



## Quixote79

mulder01 said:


> Hmm, that doesn't really explain anything though. Like you say, probably not the right place for this discussion.
> 
> If people claim to hear a difference with the extension cable then we'll leave it at that.  I haven't tried it.


 

 not make sense coax resistive to ac it sure conduct ac well
 me think he confuses resistance and capitance
 ohms never be unit of capitance its faraday


----------



## Gazza

jones bob said:


> There are SPL apps for your smartphone.


 
  
 That's a great suggestion. Just did a quick test and getting results in the mid eighties for my higher listening levels. Pretty good.


----------



## kevin gilmore

So open up your books on transmission line theory

The stax extension cable has a characteristic impedance of 125 ohms
The source impedance of the amp had better be 5.1k ohms (or more)
The load is a varying imaginary impedance between j1M ohm and j20k ohm
The system cannot operate like a transmission line!

Since the extension cable is a signifcant percentage of the load, It will absolutely
Have an effect.


----------



## VandyMan

kevin gilmore said:


> Since the extension cable is a signifcant percentage of the load, It will absolutely
> Have an effect.


 

 The question is how audible an effect. Obviously, that will depend on the cable and the amplifier. Personally, I don't hear any obvious difference using the BHSE and the STAX SRE-950S cable. Others apparently do.


----------



## mulder01

quixote79 said:


> not make sense coax resistive to ac it sure conduct ac well
> me think he confuses resistance and capitance
> ohms never be unit of capitance its faraday


 
  
 Unit of capacitance is correct.  Capacitance causes capacitive reactance which contributes to impedance.


----------



## jibzilla

vandyman said:


> The question is how audible an effect. Obviously, that will depend on the cable and the amplifier. Personally, I don't hear any obvious difference using the BHSE and the STAX SRE-950S cable. Others apparently do.


 
  
 There is no getting around that Kevin is right about this. At the same time it does not surprise me that you find the differences to be very subtle. Even at 009/BHSE levels. For me I have always found headphone cable extensions/aftermarket cables to be very subtle. The only headphone where I found cables to make a noticeable difference is sort of ironic in the hd800 as it comes with a nice stock cable imo.
  
 Where you will find noticeable to night and day differences is in TT's. Here in the U.S. you will see allot of isonoe feet($200) and ginko cloud platforms($400) underneath TT's. In Japan you will see the TT's in a totally separate room with long runs of high quality, low capacitance cables. This cable is not cheap but still a 20ft. run will only set you back $200 and provide more isolation than the $600 worth of gadgets I mentioned earlier, at least with speakers. Skimp on the long cable run though and there will be a very noticeable degradation. If I'm not mistaken there were some TT's that had adjustable capacitance.


----------



## JimL11

mulder01 said:


> Hmm, that doesn't really explain anything though. Like you say, probably not the right place for this discussion.
> 
> If people claim to hear a difference with the extension cable then we'll leave it at that.  I haven't tried it.


 

 Sigh.  One more time.  A cable's characteristic impedance (e.g. 75 ohm or 50 ohm) only applies when you're dealing with transmission lines.  Specifically, it only applies when the "transmitter" and "receiver" have the same impedance.  For example, in FM radio, the antenna has a characteristic impedance of 75 ohms, and the FM receiver also has an impedance of 75 ohms.  Then, if the cable also has a characteristic impedance of 75 ohms, the signal will go from antenna into receiver without any reflections.  Reflections are bad because they bodge up the signal.  The same is true in carrying digital signals from a CD transport to the DAC, you don't want reflections.  The transport output impedance is 75 ohms, the cable should be 75 ohms, and the DAC input is 75 ohms.
  
 However, in the case of a headphone, the amplifier has an output impedance of at least 5.1 kilohms (at least in KGs and my designs), the headphone has an impedance that varies dramatically because it looks kinda like a capacitor, so you can't use transmission line theory.  In this case, the capacitance of the extension cable adds to the capacitance of the headphones, making a bigger load which is harder to drive.  Whether you can hear the difference or not depends in part on how tolerant of the bigger load the amplifier is.  
  
 If this isn't enough of an explanation, then you need to go do some homework in basic electronics and physics, because there isn't another explanation.


----------



## VandyMan

jibzilla said:


> There is no getting around that Kevin is right about this....  The only headphone where I found cables to make a noticeable difference is sort of ironic in the hd800 as it comes with a nice stock cable imo.


 
  
 I did not disagree with Kevin. He said nothing about *hearing* the difference between using a quality extension cable and not using one. Differences you believe you hear with an HD-800 cable have nothing to do with electrostatics.


----------



## jibzilla

vandyman said:


> I did not disagree with Kevin. He said nothing about *hearing* the difference between using a quality extension cable and not using one. Differences you believe you hear with an HD-800 cable have nothing to do with electrostatics.


 

 cool


----------



## vapman

Do we have any fans of the* SR-003* here? I have had my eyes on it for a very long time. But I don't know enough about it to know if I should bite. do they go in as far as IEMs or are they more shallow? I'd prefer it to be like an earbud but I'm still interested.


----------



## supil34

The owners of STAX headphones tell me how to check the serviceability without amplifier my L300?


----------



## potkettleblack

supil34 said:


> The owners of STAX headphones tell me how to check the serviceability without amplifier my L300?


 

 Manners?


----------



## supil34

Sorry, I do not understand, as I write via google translayte. Need more information?


----------



## Tinkerer

supil34 said:


> The owners of STAX headphones tell me how to check the serviceability without amplifier my L300?


 

 You can't, just like you really can't with a regular headphone with no way to drive it. You need to plug it in to tell if something is wrong. Any more advanced method of troubleshooting like checking the continuity of the cable wires requires almost complete disassembly of the headphone.


----------



## supil34

I checked five-core cable from the clips on the inside of the headphone to the connecting plugs, and contacts, circuits no. Is it possible in this case to say that the headphones are functioning properly?


----------



## Tinkerer

No. The diaphragms could be damaged or a number of other things. It's probably fine considering how new it is, but the only way to know for sure is to plug it into an amp and listen.


----------



## labrat (Aug 12, 2018)

del


----------



## supil34

I bought SRS-3100 system. After two inclusions stopped working. Polarity is not confused. I need to understand that the return (only SRM-252S or all together). That's why I wanted to make sure SR-L300 OK and leave them.


----------



## labrat (Aug 12, 2018)

del


----------



## bearFNF

supil34 said:


> I bought SRS-3100 system. After two inclusions stopped working. Polarity is not confused. I need to understand that the return (only SRM-252S or all together). That's why I wanted to make sure SR-L300 OK and leave them.


If you bought it as a system and it's not working. I would suggest returning the whole thing for a new full system. Leave the diagnosis up to the seller.


----------



## hpeter

gu1do said:


> Hi ,,
> 
> i just get  a new STAX 2170 and i like it very much but it lack the bass i need ,,
> 
> ...


 Inserting a two hard heatshrinks under ear pad, makes them rumble


----------



## hpeter

mulveling said:


> There's an internal pic on their website if you scroll down a bit here: http://www.msbtechnology.com/amplifiers/headphone-amp-features/
> Looks like a pair of Lundahl transformers right after the inputs. If they were silver wire Lundahls they'd be pretty expensive (like 2K), but there's no indication that they are. The custom chassis looks like the highest-cost part in the amp. But hey -- SILVER/BLACK/GOLD -- your CHOICE, for only thirty-something K's!


 size wise maybe a LL7901 , input silver tx are <750€ , standard about <140€. 
Mine LL1544A 85€


headzone said:


> I kind of wish there would be "electrostatic cmoy" kind of option for New Stax users. Something basic for driving SR202-SR404 etc. I bet more people would have Stax if they wouldn't have to buy a bulky, expensive amplifier to go with them.


 good point, what is your budget?


----------



## supil34

I would be grateful for any information. What do the red LED inside the SRM-252S? And what happens if they do not light up when the system is turned on? (Green LED lights).


----------



## supil34

And while there is no sound in the headphones. This failure? The problem with headphones or amplifier? The difficult situation and it would be great if someone tell me what happened.


----------



## kevin gilmore

if they don't light up, the switcher has likely died. or the power brick is in major trouble.
 check the internal fuse if it has one.


----------



## astrostar59

supil34 said:


> I bought SRS-3100 system. After two inclusions stopped working. Polarity is not confused. I need to understand that the return (only SRM-252S or all together). That's why I wanted to make sure SR-L300 OK and leave them.


 

 How did you hook them up, to your CD player? I am assuming you connected correctly with RCA or Balanced pair line level.


----------



## supil34

It was like this: the day after the normal listening, I turned on the system, but the sound in the headphones not. Green light is on. Inside the red light is off. Fuse normal. The polarity is not changed. Adapters few tried. RCA input is correct. What a switch - SG3524?


----------



## supil34




----------



## astrostar59

supil34 said:


> It was like this: the day after the normal listening, I turned on the system, but the sound in the headphones not. Green light is on. Inside the red light is off. Fuse normal. The polarity is not changed. Adapters few tried. RCA input is correct. What a switch - SG3524?


 

 You on the correct input voltage 110V or 120V AC?


----------



## supil34

I used the adapters 220-240V/12V. Also tried native 100V/12V using a step-down transformer from 220V/100V.


----------



## soren_brix

supil34 said:


> I used the adapters 220-240V/12V. Also tried native 100V/12V using a step-down transformer from 220V/100V.


 
 if you plug/un-plug the power supply when the amp unit is turned on, you might experience blowing the fuse - most likely that is what happend


----------



## supil34

soren_brix said:


> if you plug/un-plug the power supply when the amp unit is turned on, you might experience blowing the fuse - most likely that is what happend


 
 No, I did not do this. The fuse I checked the multimeter and it is fine.


----------



## soren_brix

kevin gilmore said:


> if they don't light up, the switcher has likely died. or the power brick is in major trouble.
> check the internal fuse if it has one.


 
  
  


supil34 said:


> No, I did not do this. The fuse I checked the multimeter and it is fine.


 
 I re-read your postings as I missed the post where you state to have checked the fuse - sorry about that.

 As Kevin points out most likely the switcher has died (the switcher makes the high voltage (300V)  from the plug-in voltage (18V) (power brick/wall mount))
 The red led's inside the amp, is part of small circuits called "constant current sources" (CCS) - if they don't lit up, it's most likely because there are no high voltage, which is why Kevin points to the switcher being the culprit. (you see the switcher in your inside picture, at the top IC+transformer+caps)
  
 If there are still waranty on the amp, you should return it and have it repaired or replaced.


----------



## supil34

soren_brix said:


> I re-read your postings as I missed the post where you state to have checked the fuse - sorry about that.
> 
> As Kevin points out most likely the switcher has died (the switcher makes the high voltage (300V)  from the plug-in voltage (18V) (power brick/wall mount))
> The red led's inside the amp, is part of small circuits called "constant current sources" (CCS) - if they don't lit up, it's most likely because there are no high voltage, which is why Kevin points to the switcher being the culprit. (you see the switcher in your inside picture, at the top IC+transformer+caps)
> ...


 
 I am very grateful for your response. Guarantees no. Return is very expensive. I will try to repair myself. I find it difficult to translate, could you give exact details that need to be replaced?


----------



## kevin gilmore

replace the sg3254 and the 2 transistors between the inductor and capacitor next to the transformer  (q31,q32)


----------



## Spork67

Since getting my STAX system I have had little inclination to listen to my dynamic gear, and when I do I find myself a little underwhelmed by what I hear.
 I'm looking to upgrade my Stax a little.
  
 Currently SRM1-Mk2 (recently had all cap's replaced, and some other work done) and 404 Signature edition.
  
 Looking at SRM-T1 + 404 Limited edition.
  
  
 Is this much of an improvement?
  
 If (when?) I feel a need to upgrade yet further would the SRM-T1 power '007s adequately (in the short term at least) or would I "have to" go to a non-stax amp? 
 By that, I mean would '007's sound better out of the T1 than the 404SE, as another step on the path to an endgame system. 
 I would end up upgrading the amp as well, but it's a little easier to get past the minister for war and finances one step at a time.


----------



## edstrelow

vapman said:


> Do we have any fans of the* SR-003* here? I have had my eyes on it for a very long time. But I don't know enough about it to know if I should bite. do they go in as far as IEMs or are they more shallow? I'd prefer it to be like an earbud but I'm still interested.




They are a cheap introduction to Stax phones and pretty good for the price. They come with a headband and won't really fit in your ears without the band. Nor do they give as much isolation as most IEM's. Some people have tried using hearing aid type inserts and in this instance they don't use the headband. I don't know what they sound like but getting rid of the headband will get rid of crosstalk distortion between the two earcups which passes through the headband. So that would be a plus.

I was just working on these phones. If you apply mechanical damping material, such as a few cents worth of sorbothane, you can turn these into something that sounds like a much bigger set of phones. See my thread. http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/damping-mechanical-energy-distortion-of-stax-and-other-phones-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials/690

For quite a while I was pretty much a voice in the wilderness on the problem of damping mechanical vibrations in headphones. Now with at least 4 companies are using damping materials on at least some models(Sennheiser, Grado, B&W and Audioquest) I see it going mainstream.

 If you get a set of these phones send me a SSA envelope and I will give you some suitable sorbothane. It's real easy to apply with these phones.


----------



## Tinkerer

spork67 said:


> Since getting my STAX system I have had little inclination to listen to my dynamic gear, and when I do I find myself a little underwhelmed by what I hear.
> I'm looking to upgrade my Stax a little.
> 
> Currently SRM1-Mk2 (recently had all cap's replaced, and some other work done) and 404 Signature edition.
> ...


 
  
 I'm getting a T1W in a few days that I'm going to be doing a rebuild on. I'll give some before and after impressions with my 007 and how it compares to my old KGSSHV, 12S, and 727. Also going to make some solid state plug in tube replacements for it and see how those sound.
  
 Wish I was finishing up my Circlotron instead but still waiting on some parts to get here first.


----------



## headfiro55

Hello, everybody.
  
 Has anyone ever tried to clean SR-009 diaphragm with an ultrasonic cleaner?
 Is it safe?
  
 If it becomes contaminated, sticky by any spilling water, milk and carbonated drinks or other contaminants then I need to clean it safely.
 I know that electrostatic type diaphragm is like a very thin film of polyester kind and It is very easy to be damaged.
 So I'm afraid to wipe it with my own toothbrush or microfiber cloth.
 I have heard that Ultrasonic cleaner capable of outputting high frequency can do precise cleaning without damaging the object.
 Besides, there are many kinds cleaning liquid on the market for ultrasonic cleaners, so I don't know what to choose and how much to dilute with water.
  
 If not, can it be cleaned just by spraying a typical quick dry Contact cleaner spray? (or Isopropyl Alcohol?)
 But in this case, I think sticky contaminants can only be removed safely with an ultrasonic cleaner.
  
 After cleaning, I do not know the various chemical/physical reactions that may occur in the diaphragm.
 I would appreciate if someone with a knowledge in this field would teach me.
  
 Additionally I would like to know if these are applicable to diaphragms of dynamic headphones or planar magnetic headphones.
  
 I would like to hear a lot of various opinions about these.


----------



## chinsettawong

No, please do not clean the electrostatic drivers like what you described. That will severely destroy the diaphragms.

As long as the dust covers are in good shape, your drivers won't get dirty.


----------



## Tinkerer

The diaphragm is between the stators and under the dust guards. Pretty sure any major liquid getting in there would just straight kill the diaphragm from arcing. You'd be looking at a new diaphragm at that point. Also, even if you could theoretically clean it, you wouldn't want to in the first place as that would remove the coating necessary for it to function. Recoating diaphragms or replacing them is usually what people do if they're that damaged.
  
 Also, ultrasonic cleaners work by cavitation. Pretty sure that would totally wreck something at the thickness of a stax diaphragm. You need something thicker than a millionth of a meter to stand up to that.


----------



## Michgelsen

spork67 said:


> If (when?) I feel a need to upgrade yet further would the SRM-T1 power '007s adequately (in the short term at least) or would I "have to" go to a non-stax amp?
> By that, I mean would '007's sound better out of the T1 than the 404SE, as another step on the path to an endgame system.
> I would end up upgrading the amp as well, but it's a little easier to get past the minister for war and finances one step at a time.


 
  
 I can't recommend the SRM-T1 with the SR-007. I had that for a short while, before upgrading the amp to a 717. The 717 is excellent with the 007 (within my frame of reference); the T1 is not. You'd get loose bass and a bit of a flat, compressed sound with the T1. However, the T1 does have a lovely midrange. I really liked the T1 with the Lambda Signature and the 202, but with the 007 I found the 717 to be a clear upgrade. I don't have experience with any of the bigger Kevin Gilmore amps. However, I can't say the 007 would sound better out of a T1 than a 404LE, nor the opposite, because that's entirely personal. Obviously it will work. If you're going to upgrade the amp and 'phones anyway at some point, it might be better to upgrade the amp first, to prevent disappointment when you plug in your new 007 into the T1 for the first time.
  
 There is no 404SE by the way. There is a normal 404, also called 404 Signature by Stax, and a 404 Limited Edition (1000 pairs were made, for Stax's anniversary).


----------



## headfiro55

chinsettawong said:


> No, please do not clean the electrostatic drivers like what you described. That will severely destroy the diaphragms.
> 
> As long as the dust covers are in good shape, your drivers won't get dirty.


 
  
  


tinkerer said:


> The diaphragm is between the stators and under the dust guards. Pretty sure any major liquid getting in there would just straight kill the diaphragm from arcing. You'd be looking at a new diaphragm at that point. Also, even if you could theoretically clean it, you wouldn't want to in the first place as that would remove the coating necessary for it to function. Recoating diaphragms or replacing them is usually what people do if they're that damaged.
> 
> Also, ultrasonic cleaners work by cavitation. Pretty sure that would totally wreck something at the thickness of a stax diaphragm. You need something thicker than a millionth of a meter to stand up to that.


 
 Thank you for your replies.

 Then, Is it safe just to spray the precision contact cleaner sold on the market? (such as CRC Quick Dry Electrical Contact Cleaner)
  
 The reason I ask again is that I have already sprayed it to clean the diaphragm of my Sennheiser HD449 and it is working well until now.
 In this case, it was not to spill the beverage there, but It was just to clean many dirt and contaminants on the diaphragm.
 Now I do not know if this was the right thing to do.
 No physical changes are visible to the naked eye, but the fine components or coatings needed to operate the diaphragm correctly may have been dissolved and removed by spraying.
 However, I can not be sure this too because the sound is still output well.
 I can not feel any sound quality difference.

 I am not sure whether it is applicable to SR-009 diaphragm too.
  
 If I should not use such contact cleaner and should not use microfiber cloth or soft bristles directly on it, I think the only way to clean the diaphragm once It is contaminated  is that sending it to STAX head office through an official distributor.
 Is this right?
  
 Additionally, have you ever had to replace the SR-009 diaphragm through STAX head office or official distributor?
 If you have such experience, I wonder how much it cost.
  
 I have emailed STAX head office but have not yet answered.
 They seem to have little or no response to foreigners.
 My official distributor/dealer also said that they do not know the cost.


----------



## joseph69

headfiro55 said:


> The reason I ask again is that I have already sprayed it to clean the diaphragm of my Sennheiser HD449 and it is working well *until now.*


 
 ?


----------



## mulder01

I would never attempt to directly clean any driver on any headphone except MAYBE dynamic very carefully without any chemicals - just a very soft wipe for dust.  Maybe you should consider dust covers for your headphones when they are not in use if this is an ongoing problem for you?

 I would wait until there is a degradation in sound, then send them back to Stax - it wouldn't be cheap considering that is the main part of the headphone.


----------



## Spork67

michgelsen said:


> There is no 404SE by the way. There is a normal 404, also called 404 Signature by Stax, and a 404 Limited Edition (1000 pairs were made, for Stax's anniversary).


 
  
 My bad.
 I already have the Signature. (Which I abbreviated - but you are 100% correct- there is no "E" Edition on the box).
 New one's (hopefully) will be the  Limited Edition (LE)
  
  
@headfiro55
 re: Ultrasonic cleaning - this is frequencies between 20kHz and 40 kHz.
 Could you just play high pitched sine waves through the dirty drivers and shake that crap off using your headphones themselves?
 Your FR goes up to 42 kHz.


----------



## headfiro55

joseph69 said:


> ?


 
 The reason I ask again -> The reason why I ask again
  


mulder01 said:


> I would never attempt to directly clean any driver on any headphone except MAYBE dynamic very carefully without any chemicals - just a very soft wipe for dust.  Maybe you should consider dust covers for your headphones when they are not in use if this is an ongoing problem for you?
> 
> I would wait until there is a degradation in sound, then send them back to Stax - it wouldn't be cheap considering that is the main part of the headphone.


 
 I see.
  
 I used to disassemble SR-009 to clean the diaphragm before.
 At that time, I accidentally touch the center of the diaphragm with my fingers.
 Since then I have been worried that the performance of the diaphragm may drop due to skin oil or fine dust from the hands.
 Fortunately, the sound comes out well.

 I will continue to use it, and if I face strange problems, I will contact STAX.
 The diaphragm looks very thin and sensitive, so I can not decide to spray Contact Cleaner on there.
  
 These worries may be just my Obsessive-compulsive neurosis for expensive and loving thing.
  


spork67 said:


> My bad.
> I already have the Signature. (Which I abbreviated - but you are 100% correct- there is no "E" Edition on the box).
> New one's (hopefully) will be the  Limited Edition (LE)
> 
> ...


 
 What you are saying is convincing!
  
 However, I think the fine fingerprints, stains and skin oil that come from touching the diaphragm by hand will not be erased.
  
 I will continue to use it anyway.
 I expect that the warranty period is already over so it will be very expensive to get service.
  
 Thank you guys, your words have been a great reference.


----------



## astrostar59

spork67 said:


> Since getting my STAX system I have had little inclination to listen to my dynamic gear, and when I do I find myself a little underwhelmed by what I hear.
> I'm looking to upgrade my Stax a little.
> 
> Currently SRM1-Mk2 (recently had all cap's replaced, and some other work done) and 404 Signature edition.
> ...


 

 I had the Stax 717 for about a year with the 007s and it was ok. Probably the best Stax amp you can use for dynamic / dance music. Classic may be better on the 007T tube amp. But IMO I would try and find a used KGSShv to really get your 007s singing. That will be a big jump in sound quality for you as opposed to a side step to another Stax amp IMO.


----------



## Quixote79

astrostar59 said:


> I had the Stax 717 for about a year with the 007s and it was ok. Probably the best Stax amp you can use for dynamic / dance music. Classic may be better on the 007T tube amp. But IMO I would try and find a used KGSShv to really get your 007s singing. That will be a big jump in sound quality for you as opposed to a side step to another Stax amp IMO.


 

 good see you back. seen idiots at the other place banning you cause you don't know a thing - my eyes complete wong!


----------



## Spork67

astrostar59 said:


> spork67 said:
> 
> 
> > Since getting my STAX system I have had little inclination to listen to my dynamic gear, and when I do I find myself a little underwhelmed by what I hear.
> ...


 
 OK, thanks mate.
 007's aren't a definite yet - but I do seem to be suffering from upgraditis...
 Will see what pans out  - looks like the postage from the states is much higher than I expected so the deal may fall through.
 If that;'s the case I'll just save my pennies until I can afford KGSShv or similar.


----------



## JimL11

spork67 said:


> If (when?) I feel a need to upgrade yet further would the SRM-T1 power '007s adequately (in the short term at least) or would I "have to" go to a non-stax amp?
> By that, I mean would '007's sound better out of the T1 than the 404SE, as another step on the path to an endgame system.
> I would end up upgrading the amp as well, but it's a little easier to get past the minister for war and finances one step at a time.


 
 Depends on a couple of things, first, how loudly you listen, and second, how sensitive you are to changes in amplifiers.  If you don't listen very loudly then the differences in amplifiers will be lessened.  And some people are not that sensitive to differences between amplifiers.  For another perspective, here's an old quote from Darth Nut, who bought a Stax T2 in 1995, in 2003:
  
 "To put the T2 in perspective, the move from a Lambda to Omega II is a bigger jump than a move from 007t to T2.
  
 If I had to choose between (404 + T2) and (Omega II + 007t), I would choose (Omega II + 007t).
  
 This is not so much a criticism of the T2, as it is a credit to the Omega II, which gets the sound so correct in so many ways. The T2 is a refinement _along the same lines_, whereas the Omega II is different enough a creature from the Lambdas.
  
 I just don't want you to have undue expectations of the T2. You have to be aware of shrinking returns when you get so high up the price : performance curve. The T2 is truly more transparent than the 007t, but look at the price difference."
  
  
 And then, here is a comment from spritzer in 2008,
  
 "The T1 is ok as a budget amp for the Mk1 and I prefer it to the 007t."
  

 I have a friend who is driving his SR-007 Mk Is with a modified T1 (better input jacks and wiring, better volume control) and he is reasonably happy with it - although he prefers my SRX Plus.


----------



## Spork67

@JimL11 - I listen at moderate volumes, around 85db is on the loud end of my usual scale.
 The volume knob on my MK2 would seldom get past 11:00 o'clock, unless I'm listening to a particularly quiet recording.
 I might occasionally "rock out" for a song, or part of a song, with the volume @ 12:00 o'clock.
  
 I had little regard for my hearing when I was young - I try not to damage it any further now.


----------



## jgazal

jiml11 said:


> Depends on a couple of things, first, how loudly you listen,




I am delighted with Dr. Stephen Smyth views in his recent interview/podcast (link at the Realizer A16 thread). He says that in his experience room acoustics make more difference than amplifiers or, believe it or not, transducers*. He also elaborates on the importance of amplitude and mainly time domain equalization. 

I guess the virtualization of transducers in a room using headphones may increase the demand for a headphone amplifier power due to the reproduction of "bass overshoot/overhigh" from room nodes Dr. Smyth mentioned in his interview, an effect that is, as far as I understood, inserted in the room impulse response portion (RIR) of the virtualization filter.

But the equalization of low frequencies in time domain may reduce such demand, maybe offering similar results one would achieve if you hadn't such virtualization at all. In other words, as if the virtualized transducers decay were similar or identical to the natural headphones decay.

I also guess that, after the virtualization filter, the HRTF portion of it may also, as far as I know, reduce the high frequency amplitude if compared to mid and low frequency bands.

Since you wrote about power (voltage/current) requirements of electrostatic amplifiers when playing back the usual audio content (generally up to 10khz?) with no virtualization, I would like to ask, with due respect to your knowledge, one question that I cannot find the answer myself.

Do you believe that such filter (a personal room impulse response, i.e., RIR + personalized HRTF) could somehow change the reasoning you made in that occasion to encounter the power (voltage/current) requirements of electrostatic amplifiers?

*I still guess/believe with no technical proof that directivity must have a relevant influence in a room response and decay, at least in mid an high frequencies. I would like to hear your opinion about that also.

P.s.: Dr. Smyth also states that the jump from single ended to balanced is orders of magnitude less noticeable than the virtualization itself. Anyway, not that important with electrostatic amplifiers...


----------



## JimL11

jgazal said:


> Since you wrote about power (voltage/current) requirements of electrostatic amplifiers when playing back the usual audio content (generally up to 10khz?) with no virtualization, I would like to ask, with due respect to your knowledge, one question that I cannot find the answer myself.
> 
> Do you believe that such filter (a personal room impulse response, i.e., RIR + personalized HRTF) could somehow change the reasoning you made in that occasion to encounter the power (voltage/current) requirements of electrostatic amplifiers?
> 
> *I still guess/believe with no technical proof that directivity must have a relevant influence in a room response and decay, at least in mid an high frequencies. I would like to hear your opinion about that also.


 
 Any kind of EQ can significantly modify the power requirements, but it also depends on how the EQ is distributed.  If you look at the power distribution of music, the most "wattage" tends to be in the 60 to 500 Hz region, whereas the high frequencies take relatively little power.  Also note that the power distribution of music also depends to some degree on what type of music you are listening to, although in general the power demands above 2-4 kHz are 5-20 dB lower, as pretty much all fundamental music frequencies are at or below 4 kHz, which is the highest that a piccolo or piano goes to.  This is why tweeters in a speaker rated for 200 watts may only be rated a 1-2 watts and yet won't burn up.  Now, bumping up the level by 3 dB, which is a relatively modest increase in volume, requires 2x the power.  If you do this in the power region of music, say from 50 to 500 Hz, the overall power demand may double whereas if you do it at 10 kHz, where there is very little power used to begin with, the overall power demand may change very little.  And of course, if the EQ drops a band by 3 dB over the entire 60-500 Hz region, you may need only half the power.
  
 An example of this is the SR007 vs SR009.  If you look at the specs, they are only about 1 dB apart in output at 1 kHz, however the 007 produces a few dB less sound in the 2-5 kHz region, which is the frequency range the ear tends to use to judge the overall loudness of the sound.  So if you adjust them to sound subjectively the same loudness you have to crank up the volume a couple notches, which could represent 2-4x the power demand.  This is likely why the SR-007 is considered much more power hungry than the 009 even though the specifications are very similar.
  
 Without knowing what the exact EQ is, it's hard to know whether overall power demands would increase or decrease, or by how much, which could be why Dr. Smyth didn't comment on this.  If you listen at levels that don't approach the limits, then an amplifier should be able to accommodate modest amounts of EQ, however if you listen at levels close to clipping, which apparently some do, then yeah, you'll probably get into trouble.  Kevin Gilmore reports that one Head-Fier at a meet managed to clip a DIY T2 with its +/- 500volt power supply, which pleased the Head-Fier and scared everyone around him as it was clearly audible across the room - we are talking levels over 110 dB, about the same as a live rock concert, and close to the average human pain threshold.  I'm not even going to go into how stupid this, just look at the number of older rockers who have significant hearing damage.  
  
 In terms of directivity, a more directive speaker with an anechoic flat frequency response on axis will have a rolled off power response in the room.  For speakers in a box, low frequencies will be omnidirectional, while higher frequencies will be more directed forward, with the beam narrowing as the size of the driver approaches the wavelength of sound it is reproducing.  A dipole will have a more uniform figure 8 directivity and therefore a more uniform power response in the bass to midrange, although again at higher frequencies it will become more directive  -  this is all basic stuff that you can read in any acoustics text.  Not sure if you are asking something more specific than that.


----------



## JimL11

spork67 said:


> @JimL11 - I listen at moderate volumes, around 85db is on the loud end of my usual scale.
> The volume knob on my MK2 would seldom get past 11:00 o'clock, unless I'm listening to a particularly quiet recording.
> I might occasionally "rock out" for a song, or part of a song, with the volume @ 12:00 o'clock.
> 
> I had little regard for my hearing when I was young - I try not to damage it any further now.


 

 So you would probably not hear as much of a difference at those levels as you are not stressing the amp much.  The SR007 does tend to sound quieter than most other Stax phones because it has less output in the 2-5 kHz "loudness" range compared to most of the others, so that would mean cranking it up a notch or two.  I think there is a mod that would significantly improve the ability of the T1 to drive the 007, but I'm still working on it.


----------



## Spork67

jiml11 said:


> So you would probably not hear as much of a difference at those levels as you are not stressing the amp much.  The SR007 does tend to sound quieter than most other Stax phones because it has less output in the 2-5 kHz "loudness" range compared to most of the others, so that would mean cranking it up a notch or two.  I think there is a mod that would significantly improve the ability of the T1 to drive the 007, but I'm still working on it.


 
  
 I'll follow that with interest - the deal has been done, I'm about to post my tube amp + tubes, and someone in America will post a T1 + 404LE to me.


----------



## rgs9200m

Are there any more comments anyone would care to make on the Focal Utopia compared to Stax (mainly the SR007 and SR009) since earlier postings in this thread? I'm asking since the Utopia is more widespread in the field? Thank you.
 Does anyone out there in Staxland own both?


----------



## yates7592

On the Utopia thread there is someone with both and he seems to like both in different ways. Can't remember the name but if you go to thread you will find him.


----------



## Spork67

Not really Stax -related (as my existing and incoming amps both have voltage a selecter) but could one of the electronics gurus in this thread please recommend a reasonably priced, decent quality, step-up transformer to make a Feliks Elise built for Australia (240v mains) work in the US?
 If this amp was plugged directly into 110v would the results be catastrophic, or nothing at all, or somewhere in between?
 I'm asking here because the level of electrical knowledge among you guys seems higher than in other parts of the forum.
 TIA


----------



## chromkugel

Hi, i have a SPS-T2 power supply for the SRM-T2 but nothing more. What to do with it? At the moment it is on eBay.de the next 7 days but if i get an Inspiration i will close the auction.


----------



## AnakChan

rgs9200m said:


> Are there any more comments anyone would care to make on the Focal Utopia compared to Stax (mainly the SR007 and SR009) since earlier postings in this thread? I'm asking since the Utopia is more widespread in the field? Thank you.
> Does anyone out there in Staxland own both?


I have the Utopia review in my sig where I had brief comparisons of it against my SR-007Mk1 & SR-009.

I'm going to have to say from a sonic perspective I'd still prefer the SR-007Mk1 but yet I bought the Utopia for convenience of dynamics (transportability, greater mix/match modularity with reasonably priced amps, etc).

Ain't getting rid of my Stax setup but consolidating my dynamic & ortho headphone collection for the Utopia.


----------



## JimL11

rgs9200m said:


> Are there any more comments anyone would care to make on the Focal Utopia compared to Stax (mainly the SR007 and SR009) since earlier postings in this thread? I'm asking since the Utopia is more widespread in the field? Thank you.
> Does anyone out there in Staxland own both?


 

 Here's Jude's comment from August in case you haven't seen it:
  

 No, the HE-1 Orpheus would still get the clear nod. As I said in the CanJam London video, I feel the Utopia's overall performance is matched only by a few top-performing planar magnetic headphones, and exceeded only by the very best electrostatic headphones in the world. The new Orpheus is, in my opinion, perhaps without peer right now (and I still haven't had a chance to try the HE-1 Orpheus with the Chord DAVE yet).
  
 My Stax SR-009 and Stax SR-007 Mk1 with the Frank Cooter Custom 845 Electrostatic Amp are still, in my opinion, the better sounding, more resolving headphones (versus either the Utopia or Elear). Of course, at that point, we are talking about an electrostatic system that would be priced _significantly_ higher than even the Utopia, and it's also a system that was shipped on a pallet, because it's so large--so you can't really use it anywhere other than where it is (at my office).
  
 Especially with the SR-007 Mk1 (which I've been using more and more lately), the bass is more present than with the Utopia, and the treble smoother and more refined, and, overall, more resolving. Both the SR-009 and SR-007 Mk1 play with beautiful body and drive through the Cooter--more than any other amp I've yet heard with them.


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## mulder01

spork67 said:


> Not really Stax -related (as my existing and incoming amps both have voltage a selecter) but could one of the electronics gurus in this thread please recommend a reasonably priced, decent quality, step-up transformer to make a Feliks Elise built for Australia (240v mains) work in the US?
> If this amp was plugged directly into 110v would the results be catastrophic, or nothing at all, or somewhere in between?
> I'm asking here because the level of electrical knowledge among you guys seems higher than in other parts of the forum.
> TIA


 
  
 I'll give a sort-of answer since nobody has chimed in with a better one - don't plug a 240v amp into 110v.  
  
 Can't recommend a specific 'good' step up transformer from experience, but I would personally go for an iron core block looking thing like this:  It's nothing fancy but will take the AC coming from the US socket exactly as it is and make it 240v by having twice as many coils of wire wrapping around that iron core in the middle than the opposite side.  No additional filtering or fancy stuff, but cheap and simple is often the best way.


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## HiFiIsExpensive

Can anyone tell me how much difference does the Sigma normal 6 pin compared to the sigma pro 5 pin in terms our sound quality?


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## rgs9200m

Thanks for the comments on the Stax vs. Focal.
 I have not heard the Focal, but my intuition tells me Stax is unique and cannot be replaced and my Stax setup isn't going anywhere.
 (I am liking the HEK v2 though also in my dynamic system.)


----------



## icebear

spork67 said:


> Not really Stax -related (as my existing and incoming amps both have voltage a selecter) but could one of the electronics gurus in this thread please recommend a reasonably priced, decent quality, step-up transformer to make a Feliks Elise built for Australia (240v mains) work in the US?
> If this amp was plugged directly into 110v would the results be catastrophic, or nothing at all, or somewhere in between?
> I'm asking here because the level of electrical knowledge among you guys seems higher than in other parts of the forum.
> TIA


 
  
 I'd recommend something more substantial in case you have other appliances or equipment you also want to run with 220-240 V in the US:
 Although not a "3rd world" country, in terms of home electric circuitry the US is a joke, maybe the place we rent is a particular bad example but fridge/freezer and AC make the light go dim for a second. So a regulated transformer is the way to go. And you can select input and output voltage.
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Simran-AR-3000-3000-Watt-Stabilizer-Transformer/dp/B000E636BU/ref=sr_1_3?s=appliances&ie=UTF8&qid=1481426953&sr=8-3&keywords=regulator+step+up+transformer+110+-+220v


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## Spork67

Thanks Icebear.
 I think the guy who's getting my (240v) amp wants more of a "plug and play" solution - like the one you suggested, than something he'd have to wire up himself.


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## almoskosz

Hello guys!
  
 I have always been interested in electrostatic gear, and only recently I found a video to which here is a link.The video is about the Stax 2170 system, and the guy claims all kinds of stuff about it. What really stroke me the most was how he tried to compare it other headphones and could really only say that it's better than any other, be it planar or dynamic. After watching, I obviously felt a great urge to go out and buy one, but couldn't help but post here first, just to get either a confirmation or advice. I am at a point where I'd like to expand my He-400i and Shure with an amp/dac, which allows for future expansion to other headphones. I now debate whether or not I should forget about it and invest in a stax instead, and that will be good for me. Any advice guys? 
  
 Thanks, and have a nice day!


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## Pokemonn

almoskosz said:


> Hello guys!
> 
> I have always been interested in electrostatic gear, and only recently I found a video to which here is a link.The video is about the Stax 2170 system, and the guy claims all kinds of stuff about it. What really stroke me the most was how he tried to compare it other headphones and could really only say that it's better than any other, be it planar or dynamic. After watching, I obviously felt a great urge to go out and buy one, but couldn't help but post here first, just to get either a confirmation or advice. I am at a point where I'd like to expand my He-400i and Shure with an amp/dac, which allows for future expansion to other headphones. I now debate whether or not I should forget about it and invest in a stax instead, and that will be good for me. Any advice guys?
> 
> Thanks, and have a nice day!


 

 I recommend to try Stax SR-L700 + SRM-006t + your favorite DACs combo. boom! you have done. remember SR-L700 are latest Stax. improved and tonal balance good. good price/performance ratio etc etc.


----------



## jibzilla

spork67 said:


> Not really Stax -related (as my existing and incoming amps both have voltage a selecter) but could one of the electronics gurus in this thread please recommend a reasonably priced, decent quality, step-up transformer to make a Feliks Elise built for Australia (240v mains) work in the US?
> If this amp was plugged directly into 110v would the results be catastrophic, or nothing at all, or somewhere in between?
> I'm asking here because the level of electrical knowledge among you guys seems higher than in other parts of the forum.
> TIA


 
  
www.acupwr.com


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## HiFiIsExpensive

Just buy a used system and earspeaker on ebay, they should not be too expensive. If you do not like it, you can always resell them!


----------



## HiFiIsExpensive

almoskosz said:


> Hello guys!
> 
> I have always been interested in electrostatic gear, and only recently I found a video to which here is a link.The video is about the Stax 2170 system, and the guy claims all kinds of stuff about it. What really stroke me the most was how he tried to compare it other headphones and could really only say that it's better than any other, be it planar or dynamic. After watching, I obviously felt a great urge to go out and buy one, but couldn't help but post here first, just to get either a confirmation or advice. I am at a point where I'd like to expand my He-400i and Shure with an amp/dac, which allows for future expansion to other headphones. I now debate whether or not I should forget about it and invest in a stax instead, and that will be good for me. Any advice guys?
> 
> Thanks, and have a nice day!


 
 Just buy a used system and earspeaker on ebay, they should not be too expensive. If you do not like it, you can always resell them!


----------



## Spork67

hifiisexpensive said:


> almoskosz said:
> 
> 
> > Hello guys!
> ...


 
 This.
 If you don't like them sell them for around the same as you apid.
 If you DO like them, sell them. plus a kidney, and buy high-end STAX HPs and a KGxxx amp.


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## HiFiIsExpensive

spork67 said:


> This.
> If you don't like them sell them for around the same as you apid.
> If you DO like them, sell them. plus a kidney, and buy high-end STAX HPs and a KGxxx amp.


 

 Looks like I need to sell my Kidney to get the Omegas and the amp <3


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## hpeter

hifiisexpensive said:


> Can anyone tell me how much difference does the Sigma normal 6 pin compared to the sigma pro 5 pin in terms our sound quality?


 Tried to use a 400V instead of 580V, 207 was softer, not so laser sharp.
007 sounds better at 580-600.
I´m planning to add some voltage bias switch.. not hard to do


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## HiFiIsExpensive

hpeter said:


> Tried to use a 400V instead of 580V, 207 was softer, not so sharp.
> 007 sounds better at higher V.


 

 ​What amp could push the sigma normal bias to its limit then? Thanks for the reply btw.


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## hpeter

I don´t understand question. 
Stax amp is my own tube design.


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## TheAttorney

Life after STAX?
  
 Or…. The next stage of my Downsizing experiment. I've now completed my TOTL headphone shoot-out, the jury is back and the results are in.
  
*Background:*
  
 I love my BHSE/009 combination. It's not perfect (the 009's slight forwardness in particular), but it's more perfect than anything else I've heard (closest dynamics competitor so far has been the Abyss). I also like my 007 Mk1's, but not as much as the 009's. I don't want to rekindle the cyclical  009/007 debate here, just stating my preference of ultimate transparency over soothing warmth.  Please do not restart that cyclical debate now - it really is not the point of this post.
  
 Earlier in the year I bought a DAVE DAC. A key factor in this decision was the promise of a TOTL solution in a small,  integrated, transportable package. It contains no amp stage - the headphones are effectively driven directly from the high output DAC stage. In theory some say it is_ impossible_ to be more _transparent _than this - however big and expensive the downstream amp would be. Using, say, an ultrabook as source, I could carry my entire high end main rig in a small sports bag. Going fully down this downsizing route would, however, result in ditching my Stax gear in favour of dynamic headphones - because I'm a single headphone kinda guy. I understand the attraction of collecting multiple headphones, but it's just not me. I'd rather concentrate my effort into getting "The Chosen One" to be as good as it can possibly get. 
  
*The Objective*
  
 An earlier home  trial with a Senn HD800S showed that this DAVE promise had not yet materialised for me. But since then we've had the normally balanced Tyll positively drooling over the new Focals and Flows. So, another day another dollar and I booked a session at HighEndHeadphones near Cambridge:  with 50+ (I didn't count them) headphones on demo in a quiet living room-like environment with comfy armchairs and tea/coffee on hand, it's about as close to auditioning at home as it's possible to get - without actually being at home. I could have stayed all day had I wanted to, but I had other commitments, so restricted myself to 3 hours - which was simultaneously not enough time, and too much time, to reliably audition several headphones.
  
 The objective was to buy one dynamics headphone that could achieve either/both of the following:
 (a) It's so good that it can completely replace my BHSE/009, and so I totally achieve my downsizing goal.
 (b) It's good enough to be a back up headphone that I can enjoy without feeling short changed, when I don't have time for the main rig to warm up.
  
 I already have a Senn HD600 for (b) duties. It's great VFM, and fantastic on my portable rig, but not nearly good enough to fully enjoy as a BHSE/009 alternative on my main rig.
  
*The Test*
  
 The test included, in approximate price order: Abyss, LCD4, Utopia, HEK V2, Pioneer SE-1 Master, Ether Flow, HEX V2. I could have tried so many more, but the above was more than enough for one sitting. They were all easily driven directly by DAVE as far as I could tell, not getting close to max volume setting, with no obvious sounds of stress at my usual moderate listening levels. Please don't tell me that your favourite headphones sound much better through a mega bucks heavy weight tube amp - because I really don't care. The whole point is to downsize, not to replace one mega bucks amp (BHSE) with another one.  If it doesn't work directly out of DAVE, then it doesn't work at all.  At the end of the session, I did try a couple of the headphones out of the dealer's favoured external amp just out of curiosity, but more about that later.
  
*The Results*
  
 In short, I did buy one of these headphones, but before I reveal which one, please remember that ALL these headphones are great in some ways, but none are perfect. So any criticism of your favourite model is me nit-picking against the best of the best rivals. It doesn't mean I hated that headphone. SQ was the main consideration, but comfort was important too, and that mattered a lot as it turns out.
  
 I came in with an expectation of which candidate would win (a) and which would win (b).  And I was wrong on both counts! Which hopefully shows that I was not swayed by Expectation Bias. So, hey ho, here we go...
  


Spoiler: And the winner was.....



[size=11.0pt] [/size]
 [size=11.0pt]Yep, you've guessed it, I chose the HEK V2.[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]I expected the Utopia to win objective (a) and Ether Flow to win (b). But HEK V2 won (b) and was the best candidate for (a), although I won't know that for sure until my ordered HEK arrives. In the meantime, based on this test, my BHSE/009's are not yet quaking in their boots - they're actually feeling rather bullish about the next round: "Bring it on, baby!".[/size]
 [size=11.0pt] [/size]
 [size=11.0pt]Some notes on the different models:[/size]
 [size=11.0pt] [/size]
 [size=11.0pt] Utopia:[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]I didn't expect the alleged small soundstage to bother me, but it did. A lot. The central female vocals were fine, but the instruments around just felt a bit constricted. On top of that, there was a touch of hardness to the upper mids/lower treble. The sort of thing vinyl enthusiasts complain about "CD sound". Didn't notice it on female vocals (which were generally lovely), but did notice on say the strumming of guitar metal strings. Comfort was ok, but I always noticed that heavy-ish headphones were clamped around my head. Don't get me wrong - this was a good sounding headphone with a well balanced and detailed sound, but I was just expecting something more for the price and reputation.[/size]
 [size=11.0pt] [/size]
 [size=11.0pt] Abyss:[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]My usual quip at this point is to say that I refuse to put anything on my head that looks like a medieval instrument of torture. So these were never going to be real contenders, but I tried them (again) anyway.[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]Apart from the looks, I hated the way the heaviness was concentrated on the top of my head. And I hated the fiddly adjustments necessary to get the sound right. After approximately 2 minutes and 34 seconds of faffing around rotating pads etc,  I timed out  and was left with the top part pressed hard against my temples and the bottom part in free air. This gave too much bass, which I could control by pressing in the bottom part with my hands. However…. I thought the sound of the Abyss was very  impressive - broadly as enjoyable as the winner, albeit with different strengths. [/size]
 [size=11.0pt] [/size]
 [size=11.0pt] LCD4:[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]Well balanced sound, with nothing much wrong. But nothing much was exceptional either. The heavy weight was very noticeable on my head. Overall, I was disappointed considering the price and reputation. As with all the phones here, where nothing immediately stands out, it probably needs more time for the finer elements to shine through. But based on this comparison, I'd choose Utopia over LCD4.[/size]
 [size=11.0pt] [/size]
 [size=11.0pt] Ether Flows:[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]Well balanced sound, with nothing much wrong. But nothing much was exceptional either. Comfort was ok. The cups had a smallish circumference but were very deep - and I couldn't help but feel that they stuck out a lot when I moved my head. Again, probably need more time for their strengths to shine through.[/size]
 [size=11.0pt] [/size]
 [size=11.0pt] Pioneer SE1 Master:[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]Beautifully finished headphone - rivals the Utopia IMO, albeit with very different, more traditional style. Maybe not quite as tonally neutral as the Flows, but in the same ballpark of overall SQ. Again, more time needed.[/size]
 [size=11.0pt] [/size]
 [size=11.0pt] HEK V2:[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]Not a great fan of the looks: Is that real wood that looks like plastic? Or plastic trying to look like real wood? But the large and shallow cups, coupled with light-ish weight, made these the most comfortable of the group - just wrapped round my head rather like Sen HD800's do.[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]The sound wasn't the most neutral, or the most detailed, or the smoothest, but the HEK did something that no other in this group (with possible exception of Abyss) could achieve: they (sometimes) made me forget I was listening to headphones.  This was partly due to the larger soundstage and the way individual images popped out from the mix. It instantly drew me into the music. Maybe the soundstage was a touch too wide - I could have done with a stronger central image - DAVE's cross-feed function may possibly sort that out (I didn't think to try at the time).[/size]
 [size=11.0pt] [/size]
 [size=11.0pt] HEX V2:[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]Much of the same strengths as its more expensive brother, but smoother, a touch muddier, and the missing detail lost me that HEK intimate connection  with the music. A channel imbalance curtailed the listening session. At its much lower price point, this  would be worth revisiting if my wallet was feeling particularly tight, but at this stage in my high end journey, the HEK is a better bet.[/size]
 [size=11.0pt] [/size]
 [size=11.0pt] Source:[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]Windows 10 laptop, SSD, internal battery, all redbook FLAC -> HQP+NAA -> Wireless Router -> Supra ethernet cable -> mR+LPS-1[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]Above was all my own. This then went through to the dealer's: Chord Sarum USB cable -> DAVE -> headphones.[/size]
 [size=11.0pt] [/size]
 [size=11.0pt]Also tried the Trilogy 933 amp. More of that another time - I feel I've written enough for now.[/size]
 [size=11.0pt] [/size]
 [size=11.0pt] Music:[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]I listen at moderate volumes: mid 70's to mid 80's dB.[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]To stop me going mad with variations, most of my music selection today was restricted to just 3 albums:[/size]
 [size=11.0pt] [/size]
 [size=11.0pt]- Beth Hart's My California ("hotly" recorded bright female vocals)[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]- Erin McKeown's Sing You Sinners (better, not perfect, recording, with lots of percussion and fast rhythms)[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]- Ravel's String Quartet (erm, it's classical) [/size]
 [size=11.0pt] [/size]
 [size=11.0pt] PS. If you like non-mainstream, individual, female talent, try Erin McKeown's Distillation album. Mostly fabulous recording and a pure voice. Not for everyone, but if you like her style, you'll then want to try all her back catalogue.[/size]


----------



## joseph69

@TheAttorney 
  
 Very well said. I really enjoyed reading your opinions on these HP's.
 I'm currently doing a small comparison for myself (in home) but not to downsize (I just received my BHSE) it's just for my own personal experiences and curiosity as to what other TOTL HP's have to offer differently from my 009/BHSE. My choices are the Utopia (which I've already listened to) and have very similar opinions to yours…the Abyss (which I'm currently listening to) and the HE1Kv2 (which will be next). I've already heard the HE1K and did find them enjoyable to listen to. My 009/BHSE combo just keeps getting ridiculously more and more addicting and better sounding every time I listen to it, not to mention I'm also getting more and more acquainted with their sound-signature.


----------



## rgs9200m

Interesting. I just got back my HEKv2 from the upgrade offer and I can't stop listening to it. I made several comments on my impressions in the HE1000 thread from first arrival, but things have gotten even better with time.
 New toy syndrome? Maybe. But I have many flagships and these are the best balance of engagement, lack of fatigue/shrillness, comfort, detail, bass solidity and extension, and transparency in a long time.
  
 I would not trade my Stax SR007 mk 2.5 for the HE1000(v2), but still, the HEK v2 is overall a top-of-the-heap headphone, much more refined than my original HEKv1.
 I use a Hugo TT as one of my DACs for these (the other being an EMM with CDs).
  
 [Sold by me over the last year or so: Abyss, LCD3 fazor and original, TH900, HD800, Ether, Oppo PM1.]
  
 EDIT: I corrected this at 4:51 PM ET to correctly say 'I would not trade my Stax SR007 mk 2.5 for the HE1000(v2)' where I accidentally said the reverse before.


----------



## Beolab

theattorney said:


> Life after STAX?
> 
> Or…. The next stage of my Downsizing experiment. I've now completed my TOTL headphone shoot-out, the jury is back and the results are in.
> 
> ...






OT:
Congrats to your new headphones! 

*Great informative review, for many lost headfi:ers out there, you could extend the Pioneer and Ether column slightly with a few more details just!   *

*Sad that you do not like the style / looks and comfort of the Abyss, because i think it is the best  sounding and scale able headphone of the pack ( i have also listen to the most of the listed ones in your review, and i personally cant stand the Focal Utopia sound, very overpriced boring linear flat / numb headphone ) , but it takes a while to find your own setting for best performance sadly. I have find my perfect setting and i do not adjust it at all any longer, just place them on my head and start listen.*

* Just curiouse, what was your impression with the store huge amp ( brand / model? ) ?*


*/ Fredrik*


----------



## joseph69

rgs9200m said:


> Interesting. I just got back my HEKv2 from the upgrade offer and I can't stop listening to it. I made several comments on my impressions in the HE1000 thread from first arrival, but things have gotten even better with time.
> New toy syndrome? Maybe. But I have many flagships and these are the best balance of engagement, lack of fatigue/shrillness, comfort, detail, bass solidity and extension, and transparency in a long time.
> I would not trade them for my Stax SR007 2.5, but still, the HEK v2 is overall a top-of-the-heap headphone, much more refined than my original HEKv1.
> I use a Hugo TT as one of my DACs for these (the other being an EMM with CDs).
> ...


 
 Good to hear, and thanks to you for reminding me about the v2 they will be next in line to borrow after I'm done with the Abyss.


----------



## rgs9200m

Thanks Joseph. I needed to correct my statement above to say
 'I would not trade my Stax SR007 mk 2.5 for the HE1000(v2)'
 rather than the reverse. Just a typo earlier, not a Freudian slip, although I do love my HEKv2.
  
 Also, I listen to a lot popular music from the last several decades (Beatles, Stones, Motown, Diana Ross, etc.) that can play havoc with digital glare and fatigue, and the HE1000(v2) is really great at producing a calm but vibrant sound,
 which is a hallmark feature of the Senn 600/650, but the Hifiman is more thrilling, open, and detailed, with better image definition.
 I feel fans of the Senn 6xx family (and the Stax SR007) should try to hear the HEKv2 for their similar advantages in this treacherous area.
 (I guess I need to repeat this in the HE1000 thread.)
  
 I just got that immediate instinctive feeling when I got them that the HEKv2 is a permanent keeper, and that's always a good thing. I am doubt-free on these. No fatal flaws, nothing tiresome, nothing boring.


----------



## lojay

Deleted - double post.


----------



## lojay

theattorney said:


> Life after STAX?
> 
> Or…. The next stage of my Downsizing experiment. I've now completed my TOTL headphone shoot-out, the jury is back and the results are in.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice review Attorney. I am dead set on upgrading my HEK now. I have always enjoyed the V1's comfort, soundstage and comparative warmth but I felt that it lacked far too much resolution and transparency compared to my electrostatic rig (even to the SR009, let alone the HE90) to even be seen in the same league. Transients were not as quick and there was some artificiality in the way the treble was rendered (in a way worse than the great treble of my modded HE6). It seems that these issues have been resolved with the new edition but I will have to hear for myself.
  
 The Utopia needs an upgrade cable. The hardness in the treble (and slight brightness) of the Utopia was quite unbearable until I upgraded to the DHC Prion4. With the upgraded cable, I must say it is not only one of the most resolving headphones I have owned but also one of the most tonally pleasing ones. I should note that the Utopia, even with upgraded cables, does not hold a candle to the sheer levels of transparency of the Orpheus HE90 or SR-Omega driven by the DIY T2 (but it does have fuller and more impactful bass if that's what you are into). I can see one preferring the Utopia over the SR-009 and BHSE though, as I know one person at least who has sold the latter combo and retained the Utopia.
  
 If a wide and spacious soundstage is a concern, then of course no cable upgrade will make the Utopias more endearing for you. I note that the Orpheus HE90 (out of the T2, not the HEV90) has hands down the most expansive and naturalsoundstage I have heard, beating the HD800 and Abyss in this regard.
  
 I gave up on the Abyss for similar reasons. Comfort and the lack of need for constant adjustment are factors that are important to musical enjoyment. Moreover, even with the upgraded Prion4 cable, the Abyss seems to have a smidgen of unnaturalness in the upper mids/ treble that held it back from being completely transparent. I guess some enjoy the unrivalled bass (save as for the HE6?) but I am not a bass head.


----------



## HiFiIsExpensive

hpeter said:


> I don´t understand question.
> Stax amp is my own tube design.


 

 I was asking which amp/energizer that Stax makes wil give the Sigma Normal to achieve its full potential. Btw did you build your own amp/energizer?


----------



## Mars Bar

lojay said:


> I can see one preferring the Utopia over the SR-009 and BHSE though, as I know one person at least who has sold the latter combo and retained the Utopia.




I'm waiting patiently to snare a cheap BHSE for this very reason. I expect any day now the classifieds will be choc full of them.


----------



## mulder01

mars bar said:


> I'm waiting patiently to snare a cheap BHSE for this very reason. I expect any day now the classifieds will be choc full of them.


 
  
 I wouldn't count on it.


----------



## astrostar59

theattorney said:


> Life after STAX?
> 
> Or…. The next stage of my Downsizing experiment. I've now completed my TOTL headphone shoot-out, the jury is back and the results are in.


 
 Great review, thank you. SO you selling your 009s then? I would love to know how close / better any of those HPs was to the BHSE and 009.
  
 Quick point. In testing gear I also use a few female vocal tracks that push any treble weaknesses to the fore. But I also use some really well recorded tracks as well, to test the dynamics and soundstage when things get really busy. Example tracks are Armin Van Buuren Mirage album, Alex M.o.r.p.h.e Hands off Armada album and Rammstein Mutter album. I listen quite loud to these types of music and I find the 009s and my Carbon / Dac combo rocks. No treble issues, dead smooth and superb bass power and depth with tons of texture and detail across the board.
  
 I is possible (as in speaker design) that certain HPs suite certain types of music? I am going to try the Utopia early next year.
  
 This is why I dig this forum, as most folk here are sharing their own experiences and in some cases own the gear they are talking about. I have issues with overarching opinions on manufactures by others who haven't heard the gear they are slating.


----------



## joseph69

mars bar said:


> I'm waiting patiently to snare a cheap BHSE for this very reason. I expect any day now the classifieds will be choc full of them.


 
 Yeah, they'll be real cheap now and they'll be all over the F/S forum as well.
 I'll sell you my 2 month old BHSE w/RK50 for $6800.00 and you'll save $78.00 with no waiting time…cheap enough?


----------



## rgs9200m

I find the Beatles, esp. the early albums, to be a tough test for the 009, along with other popular music of that era on 16/44 digital (depending on the DAC, of course, and assuming no EQ). How does such music sound to 009 owners? Thanks.


----------



## joseph69

rgs9200m said:


> I find the Beatles, esp. the early albums, to be a tough test for the 009, along with other popular music of that era on 16/44 digital (depending on the DAC, of course, and assuming no EQ). How does such music sound to 009 owners? Thanks.


 
 I listen to Smooth/Contemporary/Lounge/Chill Jazz about 80% of the time which sounds fantastic, but I've actually never listened to any of my Beatles collection yet, I'll check them out.
 Remember those early recording are funky.


----------



## joseph69

joseph69 said:


> Yeah, they'll be real cheap now and they'll be all over the F/S forum as well.
> I'll sell you my 2 month old BHSE w/RK50 for $6800.00 and you'll save $78.00 with no waiting time…cheap enough?


 
 SOLD to the gentleman @Sko0byDoo for $6800.00!


----------



## hpeter

hifiisexpensive said:


> I was asking which amp/energizer that Stax makes wil give the Sigma Normal to achieve its full potential. Btw did you build your own amp/energizer?



In the end all that matters is amp distortion profile, and achievable max signal voltage output. Any amp should do fine, rest is just tuning. _Like now, changing driver to 6N1Pi (awesome curves) from ECC803, even more transparency. But gain dropped ~2,6x_ 
I use 100k resistor in stax bias line, to prevent arcing, when foil would touch stators. A way to minimize risk of damage , then playing with higher bias voltage, maybe 300-400v.. More detail, sharper sound.. 
_On my blog is more info about amps_

What is the excitement about some 4000$ utopia phones with tiny dynamic drivers ..? If i had that money, i´d rather buy silver wire transformers to squeeze max from stax...


----------



## rgs9200m

Yep, funky is the right word.


----------



## JimL11

hpeter said:


> I use 100k resistor in stax bias line, to prevent arcing, when foil would touch stators. A way to minimize risk of damage , then playing with higher bias voltage, maybe 300-400v.. More detail, sharper sound..
> _On my blog is more info about amps_


 
 You really should use a 5 megohm resistor in the bias line, that is what Stax uses in all their amps.  100k isn't nearly enough to prevent long term damage.
  
 BTW, I looked at your blog, and your evaluation of the output stage of the Blue Hawaii is way off.  The constant current source in the output is the collection of transistors at the top of the schematic.  The EL34s are NOT part of a constant current source, they are the active outputs and are driven through the cathode by the FETs at the bottom of the diagram in grounded grid mode, which is the most linear way of driving the tubes. The outputs are taken off the plates of the EL34s, which swing the entire voltage and current output.


----------



## seaice

I have recently regrouped my home gear and started to experiment with unused toys and the results are interesting. Except for comparing several DACs and cables, I have been testing the old Stax SRD7/mk2 Pro with my Leben CS600 (KT120 tubes) and both of my Staxes (009 and L700) for a couple of days. I am very surprised how good these setups are. It is really musical and enjoyable sound and I am starting to doubt why there is so much bias against the SRD7 and other transformer boxes. At the moment I think that I could live with the SRD7 and Leben very happily. I hope that I will find some time to test my other speaker amps as well.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

seaice said:


> I have recently regrouped my home gear and started to experiment with unused toys and the results are interesting. Except for comparing several DACs and cables, I have been testing the old Stax SRD7/mk2 Pro with my Leben CS600 (KT120 tubes) and both of my Staxes (009 and L700) for a couple of days. I am very surprised how good these setups are. It is really musical and enjoyable sound and I am starting to doubt why there is so much bias against the SRD7 and other transformer boxes. At the moment I think that I could live with the SRD7 and Leben very happily. I hope that I will find some time to test my other speaker amps as well.


 
 The sound out of SRD boxes is punchy and engaging, and I too will understand why one or another does prefer it to dedicated amps, especially listening to normal bias phones.
 From my experience (SRD-7/SB, SB/mk2 and mk2, SRM-1/mk2 pro, SRM-727II modded and BHSE), downsides are (way) simpler sound et more restricted soundstage.
 Q/P ratio is obviously on transformer's side, but each will pick his poison 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## HiFiIsExpensive

ali-pacha said:


> The sound out of SRD boxes is punchy and engaging, and I too will understand why one or another does prefer it to dedicated amps, especially listening to normal bias phones.
> From my experience (SRD-7/SB, SB/mk2 and mk2, SRM-1/mk2 pro, SRM-727II modded and BHSE), downsides are (way) simpler sound et more restricted soundstage.
> Q/P ratio is obviously on transformer's side, but each will pick his poison
> 
> ...


 

 How does these boxes SRD 7 compare to the SRD-X Pro, which I have. This is becasue im thinking of getting a 7 as they are not too expensive. Much appreciated thanks!


----------



## TheAttorney

Originally Posted by *astrostar59* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 





> Great review, thank you. SO you selling your 009s then?


 
  
 Let me think for at least 0.007 seconds... Ok, that was easy... No! Like I said, based on that particular session, my BHSE/009's are _not _quaking in their boots.
 I had intended to bring in old and new 007's and 009's into the equation (all driven by dealer's SRM-007t), but 3 hours goes so quickly and I had to first achieve my primary objective that day, which was to choose my best bet dynamics headphone. The Stax vs Chosen One can happen later at home. As always, I'll try to keep an open mind and report back what _did _happen, rather than what I thought _should_ _have_ happened.
  
 To follow up on a few other questions and PMs:
  
 Yes, I could have used a wider selection of sound tracks that more people could have related to, but this way _my_ journey and the selection I used told me all I needed to know to make a purchase decision. Had there been a draw at this stage, I would have tried a few other genres.
  
 Near the end, with time running out, I briefly tried the dealer's recommended Trilogy 933 (or something like that) Class A head amp driven by DAVE. Of the Paul and Wendy team that is HighEndHeadphones, Paul's favourite dynamics is Utopia out of the Trilogy, and Wendy's favourite I think is the Abyss out of I'm not sure what. Which is the thousandth reminder that YMMV. I compared Utopia vs HEK V2 out of the Trilogy, and here the tables turned: Utopia benefited from the smoother, bassier presentation, whilst the HEK sounded a bit plodding and bloated. Had I only listened via the Trilogy amp, I would have come to a different conclusion to this exercise. Which just goes to show how _easily _ones mileage can vary. However, even during this brief test, I had a strong feeling that the Trilogy was adding colouration and losing transparency, so I stuck with my original downsizing objective: The Chosen One MUST work directly out of DAVE.
  
 All the headphone cables were stock. From a recent cable upgrade to my HD600's, I know how much a difference they can make. At least one headfier has praised how much improved the HEK V2 cables are, which I take to be a good thing, as I won't have to rush to replace them. The V2 cables _look _very ordinary though, which just goes to show...


----------



## seaice

ali-pacha said:


> The sound out of SRD boxes is punchy and engaging, and I too will understand why one or another does prefer it to dedicated amps, especially listening to normal bias phones.
> From my experience (SRD-7/SB, SB/mk2 and mk2, SRM-1/mk2 pro, SRM-727II modded and BHSE), downsides are (way) simpler sound et more restricted soundstage.
> Q/P ratio is obviously on transformer's side, but each will pick his poison
> 
> ...


 

 yes, punchy and engaging are the right words. I am not saying that I prefer my Leben+SRD7 box over my Carbon but it is an interesting experience and I am still trying to figure out all differences and nuances by swapping cables and tubes. I think that people with good speaker amps can start their Stax path with these boxes.


----------



## Beolab

theattorney said:


> Let me think for at least 0.007 seconds... Ok, that was easy... No! Like I said, based on that particular session, my BHSE/009's are _not_ quaking in their boots.
> I had intended to bring in old and new 007's and 009's into the equation (all driven by dealer's SRM-007t), but 3 hours goes so quickly and I had to first achieve my primary objective that day, which was to choose my best bet dynamics headphone. The Stax vs Chosen One can happen later at home. As always, I'll try to keep an open mind and report back what _did_ happen, rather than what I thought _should_ _have_ happened.
> 
> To follow up on a few other questions and PMs:
> ...




Thanks for your answer

The DAVE most have sounded much better than the Trilogy 933 i can imagine . 
Then the DAVE is x 4.4 times more powerful then the Trilogy, so it got also better control 'and that could be the answer to why the 
HEK 2 sounded muddy vs the DAVE.



http://www.trilogyaudio.com/933_amplifier_for_headphones.html


----------



## TheAttorney

You shouldn't read too much into a few minutes of one man's impressions. I got what I needed and it struck me as quite obvious at the time, but OTOH, Paul had months to prefer the Trilogy. Different perspectives, different objectives. Anyway, I know I started it, but this particular sub-topic probably best should continue in the DAVE thread .


----------



## Spork67

I'm not sure if it's a case of my ears / brain adjusting (to the stax sound) or if my old-with-new-caps stax amp has now (re)burned in properly - but over the last few days I've really noticed an improvement in the bass and sub-bass.
 Either way, if the 404 Limited Editions and SRM-T1 are "better" than my existing gear I'm in for a real treat when they arrive.
  
 nb: Who is in charge of emoticons for this site, and why isn't there as stax one?


----------



## Tinkerer

You'll probably like the T1 a lot. It was the reference amp for the company for almost twenty years for a reason.
  
 Just listening to a T1W myself for the first time with my 007's. Really not bad at all. The bass isn't quite as impactful as my KGSSHV was or even the SRA-12S but definitely better than the 727 with feedback mod. It's no KGSSHV, but it's probably my 2nd favorite amp I've owned so far. It doesn't have the punch of the 12S but has more articulation like the 727 mod, so kind of in the middle of those two sound wise to me.
  
 Definitely a good temp amp for a good deal while I finish up my Circlotron hopefully by the end of January. All this waiting for group buy stuff and certain case-related things from china just keeps dragging everything out. All the boards are tested. It's just finishing the case and wiring everything up. I've never hand-tapped so many M3 holes in my life.


----------



## edstrelow

After about 9 years and after replacing the cable, I have also replaced the earpads on the SR007A.  They had gotten flattened and I was no longer able to get a Stax fart when I pressed the earcups.  This indicated some sealing issues which could affect sound.  The new pads seemed very big on the ears after the old ones  and initially gave  a boomy presentation, compared to the old pads.   This was somewhat worrying because some of the detail and dynamics I had been getting from the use of sorbothane damping seemed to be negated. (http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/damping-mechanical-energy-distortion-of-stax-and-other-phones-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials)  But after 1 1/2 days the boom went away and the sound is better than with the old pads.
  
 I was struck by this break-in effect and wondered if some of the breakin many people attribute to drivers could be due to breakin of pads.   I do not doubt that some mechanical breakin occurs with headphones, probably more with dynamics than stats. But I don't recall seeing  earpad breaking addressed.


----------



## AnakChan

Not in this thread but that is something Val Kolton has been saying w.r.t. breaking in ear pads for the M100. Conceptually applicable to all headphones presumably.


----------



## zolkis

edstrelow said:


> I was struck by this break-in effect and wondered if some of the breakin many people attribute to drivers could be due to breakin of pads.


 
  
 My guess is that a few cycles of warm-up and moistening the leather on the head makes it softer and with better seal. Also the warm-up cycles will affect the pad fillings, the effect being dependent on the exact material. Myself I haven't noticed this effect too much - definitely not to this extent -, although I've tried more than a dozen pads on my Stax and my TH900.


----------



## a1uc

I am thinking of trying the Stax 009 , what seems to be the amp of choice ? I currently and using the Abyss / Dave any help would be great


----------



## rgs9200m

If you like Joseph Audio speakers, you will be better off with SR007s (the current version), rather than the SR009.
 I like Joseph Audio speakers myself, rather than, say, more modern JM Labs.
 Try a KGSS-HV amp (the regular version is fine).
 [If you have tried the 009 and like it, well then go for it. Otherwise, get the SR007.]


----------



## zolkis

I have a new reference in tonality and timbre: the Gamma Pro with protein leather Bose ear pads.
 It has displaced my modded (in Purrin style) HD650 and 009 in that, both of which measure excellent, but sound-wise the modified Gamma Pro slaughters the HD650 in every respect.
 The 009 (and 007) is still better overall (bass, stage, fine dynamic gradation etc), but the Gamma has no problems with the highs, it sounds so natural, full, energetic, and velvet-smooth - especially cello and piano sound so real. I've spent much of the night listening to cello+piano .
 The Omegas have more bass slam, but the modded Gamma Pro does not lack in bass.
  
 It is interesting that when used with normal bias, the Gamma Pro sounds much like the normal-bias Gamma, that is quite much worse (especially in the treble) than the Gamma Pro with pro bias.
  
 FR doesn't mean that much any more to me (e.g. based on measurements alone, the modded HD650 should sound way better than the others), but here we go. Disregard everything below 40 Hz and above 8 kHz, the data there depends on so many things. I judge those areas mostly by ear.
  
 I have tried about 8-10 pads with the Gamma Pro. I selected the best sounding ones, the somewhat smaller Bose ear pads. The Stax 007 pads were also working well, with less bass.
  
 Green: original Gamma Pro + pads: open, nice midrange, not much bass.
 Violet: HD650: sounds a bit bland compared to the original Gamma, but still good.
 Yellow: Gamma with cleaned up back (nothing but the drivers) + Bose QC15 ear pads. Quite much more bass slam than with the original pads, but ain't 007 yet. Nevertheless, enough to not miss anything, from orchestra to EDM. A new reference.
  

  
 I am going to make some custom ear pads to the Gamma Pro, let's see if it can improve still. BTW the driver seems to be usable in almost any type of loading, including closed designs. 
 I also have the itch to make a TH900-like enclosure for it (with larger, damped cups), as the driver alone sounds much better than the TH900 driver.


----------



## edstrelow

zolkis said:


> My guess is that a few cycles of warm-up and moistening the leather on the head makes it softer and with better seal. Also the warm-up cycles will affect the pad fillings, the effect being dependent on the exact material. Myself I haven't noticed this effect too much - definitely not to this extent -, although I've tried more than a dozen pads on my Stax and my TH900.




I agree with these observations and I would also note that as the pads compress, the eardrums get closer to the drivers and the earcup chamber gets smaller. All these factors would seem to be in play. 




zolkis said:


> I have a new reference in tonality and timbre: the Gamma Pro with protein leather Bose ear pads.
> It has displaced my modded (in Purrin style) HD650 and 009 in that, both of which measure excellent, but sound-wise the modified Gamma Pro slaughters the HD650 in every respect.
> The 009 (and 007) is still better overall (bass, stage, fine dynamic gradation etc), but the Gamma has no problems with the highs, it sounds so natural, full, energetic, and velvet-smooth - especially cello and piano sound so real. I've spent much of the night listening to cello+piano .
> The Omegas have more bass slam, but the modded Gamma Pro does not lack in bass.
> ...




As regards other use for the drivers, the Gamma pro was evidently the source of the drivers in my SRXIII pro which I believe were modded in the UK from low bias operation. I like them but mostly they are being used for experiments in mechanical damping, since the outer cover comes off easily and I have other covers to swap in place with different damping materials.


----------



## zolkis

Speaking of mechanical damping, I really like the ugly plastic headband on the Gamma Pro, with continuous adjustment, almost no mass and most of all, no ringing! .
 Also, I had to remove the thin wool sheet and foam layer from the back of the driver because they were decomposing and losing particles, and noticed it sounds much better without them (with no big FR change). For what is worth, the 007 (and 009) don't have anything behind the drivers (except the metallic mesh).


----------



## a1uc

Thanks I will look into it


----------



## Pokemonn

darn(again ? lol) today i found my DAC(fostex hp-a8) needs warm up to sound right.
 i put a CD box on top of DAC top plate to cover ventilation slit.(do it at your own risk...) dang! sound magical with SR-009.
 009 sound treble smoother, bass is fulller, very dynamic very musical, no need to EQ for SR-009 anymore...
 is this phenomenon common for any DACs???
  
 my little advice: warm your DAC and room!
  
 thanks.


----------



## mulder01

pokemonn said:


> darn(again ? lol) today i found my DAC(fostex hp-a8) needs warm up to sound right.
> i put a CD box on top of DAC top plate to cover ventilation slit.(do it at your own risk...) dang! sound magical with SR-009.
> 009 sound treble smoother, bass is fulller, very dynamic very musical, no need to EQ for SR-009 anymore...
> is this phenomenon common for any DACs???
> ...


 
  
 The Schiit guys claim that every DAC should be left on to keep it warm.  Not 100% sure if I'm buying into that idea.


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## Spork67

My DAC (Grace m9xx) does not have an on/off switch and has not been powered down for the last month or three.


----------



## Pokemonn

> Originally Posted by *mulder01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The Schiit guys claim that every DAC should be left on to keep it warm.  Not 100% sure if I'm buying into that idea.


 
  


spork67 said:


> My DAC (Grace m9xx) does not have an on/off switch and has not been powered down for the last month or three.


 

 Thank you very much for your advices!
 I also try to keep power turn on my DACs for months, i will try it. Thanks again!


----------



## joseph69

My PWD-ll has a standby mode for the critical components (no power to the outputs) and is always slightly warm to the touch. I have a Meridian 203 from '90-91 that I left on for 20+yrs in my speaker system back then and the 203 still works 100%.


----------



## JimL11

mulder01 said:


> The Schiit guys claim that every DAC should be left on to keep it warm.  Not 100% sure if I'm buying into that idea.


 

 That actually makes some sense.  For example, in the lab, if you have a calibrated measuring system, often it is left on 24/7 to eliminate thermal drift.


----------



## wuwhere

I worked with Agilent RF Spectrum Analyzers. We never turned them off. In standby, it only turns off the display.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

*NEW REFERENCE STAX OMEGA & REFERENCE AMPLIFIER CONFIRMED FOR 2017 (80th STAX ANNIVERSARY)*
  
 Original link:
 http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/blog/?p=28326
  
 Google translated link:
 https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fujiya-avic.jp%2Fblog%2F%3Fp%3D28326
  
 "*Question:* Finally, there is nothing until the 80th anniversary of the establishment of the second year in the future? It is called
I think that there are some readers who have doubts, so I will listen to them

If no comment, but it's fine, *is your plan of the next year of a new product?*

*Answer:* You may release this already, we plan to release next year

*Become a high-end model of the current aircraft with a headphone amplifier*

*At the moment we have a flagship machine of Stax,*

*Currently under development.*

I am assuming a model of a position called amplifier that fits SR - 009,

The price is not decided at all yet, but with the top model.

The stax amps are all analog-only, and the DA converter's

Although there is no installation, the model under planning has the same configuration.

In the summer, if you can start selling it ...

It is progressing, but this is also "schedule".

I hope the reference exhibit of prototype will be in time for spring ...

Anyway, as the project is ongoing,

Please expect it!"

 

*Please, someone who knows japanese can translate this better?*

Very exciting news, bye bye Hifiman and Sennheiser.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Plans for 2017:

- Wait for KG, Tyll & Spritzer opinions (don't want something even brighter than 009).

- Sell KGSSHV Mini and get custom KGSSHV Carbon without volume control.

- Sell PS Audio Nuwave DSD DAC and buy second hand/ex-demo Metrum Adagio DAC/Preamp.

- Buy new Stax if reports are positive.

- Laugh very, very hard at Shangri-la and HE-1.

- Enjoy heaven.


----------



## Pokemonn

Wow! save your money for flagship Stax amp for SR-009!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  we will see next year!!!


----------



## rgs9200m

Just an observation that in that lengthy interview/photo-album about Stax, there is only one passing toss-off mention of the SR007 (and no pictures or images of it that I can see).
 I mention this because I still feel it's Stax's supreme accomplishment, and may be the best headphone ever made. (And I have both the 007 and 009.)
  
 Maybe it's a pride thing with them since the SR009 is meant to be their tip-top flagship to all listeners. Thank goodness they still make the SR007, even though it now flies under the radar. It's a classic.
 And not to mention they have not updated or even tweaked to my knowledge the 727 or 007t amps in a decade, and they sure could use it.


----------



## Redwingnine

Some interesting news indeed.  I've been on the fence about which Stax ear speaker to get as a step up from the SR 507 (L700 or SR 007).   After some reading up, decided to get the SR-007 MK2.  There is a lot of good ink spilled over this model.  They also seem to be more comfortable for long listening sessions.
  
 The SR 007's will arrive next week.  Very much looking forward to their arrival and audition.  For those members who have heard both, looking for feedback on your impressions.  
  
 BTW, I have both SRM 006t2 (US), and the SRM 007ta (Japan).  I find both of them to work rather well with the SR 507's.  One item that did help the sound was to change out the stock tubes for NOS RCA 6CG7 Black Plates.  
  
 Regarding DAC's, I noticed a significant improvement from the Stax setup when changing out the DAC to a Benchmark DAC2 DX.  The improvement was dramatic over using a stock Oppo BDP 105.


----------



## rgs9200m

Yeah, I have the 007t/ii amp with those RCA 6CG7 tubes. It's good basically, but still you need a KG amp for great sound so it really opens up with that amazing Stax resolution and speed and wonderful transparent, fulsome bass (IMHO the best bass in the business).
 Sell your Stax amps now for whatever you can get for them and go for a KGSS-hv in any configuration. Do this right away and you will be happy. There are usually decent used KGSShvs of some sort to be found from people moving on to Carbons or BHSEs.
 Take this small step any you will be arguably in state-of-the-art territory for headphone sound.
  
 Just me and I'm repeating myself (sorry), but after some R10s (now sold) and even hearing an Orpheus system at some shows, I still feel that nothing beats the SR007 and it's the best headphone ever made.
 It's on the level of the Orpheus for me (although I never owned it and just listened for a few minutes, so take that with a grain of salt and please don't flame me).
  
 My 2nd-favorite obtainable headphone these days is the HEKv2 for the record.


----------



## Redwingnine

OK.  I will look into the KGSS-hv amp.


----------



## rgs9200m

redwingnine said:


> OK.  I will look into the KGSS-hv amp.


 
 Great. Good luck and let the forum here know what you think. Merry holidays.
  
 Just some more thoughts on the Stax SR007. Most headphones at any price have people who love them and many others who simply hate them.
 But after almost 20 years of reading audio forums, it's my impression that it's very rare to find very negative comments on the SR007.
 So a headphone with a vanishing amount of haters over 17+ years since its arrival says something significant I reckon.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

rgs9200m said:


> Just an observation that in that lengthy interview/photo-album about Stax, there is only one passing toss-off mention of the SR007 (and no pictures or images of it that I can see).
> I mention this because I still feel it's Stax's supreme accomplishment, and may be the best headphone ever made. (And I have both the 007 and 009.)
> 
> Maybe it's a pride thing with them since the SR009 is meant to be their tip-top flagship to all listeners. Thank goodness they still make the SR007, even though it now flies under the radar. It's a classic.
> And not to mention they have not updated or even tweaked to my knowledge the 727 or 007t amps in a decade, and they sure could use it.


 
  
 I think the same as you.
 They're not dumb and of course read the forums, so they know that a lot of people prefers the 007 to the 009 under certain conditions (powerful aftermarket amp)
 They've been acquired by Edifer after 009 launch, so having a lot more of resources and feedback from users, add to that their 80th anniversary...I believe that this new SR-010 will be the best headphone ever made by a large margin.
 Aracnic senses tell me that they'll price it under 10k and sell the amp separately, not as a system (as it should be).
 Just speculating here, but knowing them I would be surprised if is not that way.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

pokemonn said:


> Wow! save your money for flagship Stax amp for SR-009!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Meh, Carbon without volume control and R-Core transformer is enough for me 
 However, SR-010 mmm...doesn't matter if I have to sell the car, I work near home


----------



## yates7592

Very exciting news.


----------



## zolkis

If it's going to be a 80 year anniversary statement product, with a price tag to match, I'd probably stay with the modded 007, and eventually try to get an SR-Omega... though I am still so enamored with my modded Gamma Pro that at the moment it really fills the gap for having a second view to music .


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Stax is not Hifiman or Sennheiser, they have very reasonable profit margins.
 Just take a look at 009 build quality and tell me how much it would cost if produced by Hifiman (who priced Shangri-La at 50k because Orpheus costs 50k).
  
 It will be under 10k, probably not reaching even 8k.
 Hell, SR-007 costs 2000usd...SR-009 costs 4000usd, REALLY, they'll not jump to the crazy prices trend, makes no sense.
 Keep in mind that 40k usd of the 50k cost of Shangri-La is the matching amp (remember the Stereoexchange ad of Shangri-La at 9999usd?), probably the same thing with Orpheus.
 They'll sell the amp separately, as they did with T2 and Omega back in the days and also do with all their products.


----------



## astrostar59

rgs9200m said:


> Great. Good luck and let the forum here know what you think. Merry holidays.
> 
> Just some more thoughts on the Stax SR007. Most headphones at any price have people who love them and many others who simply hate them.
> But after almost 20 years of reading audio forums, it's my impression that it's very rare to find very negative comments on the SR007.
> So a headphone with a vanishing amount of haters over 17+ years since its arrival says something significant I reckon.


 

 True enough. But few would call the 007 transparent or fast. I think it's longevity and strengths are it is very forgiving. It fits with more systems and brighter DACs. Personally I never thought it beat my 009 on my system though. The treble energy withy the 009s can cause a brighter balance with some DACs and amps. I have yet to hear an amp make or DAC make the 007s sound better. Maybe one day.....
  
 I have the 007A 2015 in by back up system with an AMR DP-777 and that system works well enough.


----------



## JimL11

astrostar59 said:


> True enough. But few would call the 007 transparent or fast.


 
 I beg to differ.  Here is a quote from renowned mastering engineer Bob Katz:  "I've spent $4000 on the Stax 007 Mk2 and a custom-built KGSS amp, which can drive them as loudly and cleanly as you like. These are the most transparent reproducers I own, revealing details that are masked even on my fabulous loudspeaker system. "


----------



## paradoxper

I think the 007 is transparent and fast. I also find the 009 more transparent and fast. 
  
 Therefore, I, for one, would rely on my own ears to reveal truths. 
  
 Because you hear it differently only personifies subjectivism.
  
 Or perhaps you have old ears and don't hear moar better than I. Or perhaps you prefer a colored sound. OR maybe Bob Katz has more defined
 trained ears. OR OR OR.


----------



## rgs9200m

I feel the SR007 is the most transparent and fastest sound second only to the SR009. I do not sense that the HD800 or any other headphone excels more in these areas.
 [Edited to say that I do *not* sense that the HD800 excels here. Just a typo. I left out the all-important 'not'.]
 But these features of the 009 come at a cost to my ears, so the 007 is absolutely my favorite.
 Nevertheless, I do feel that Bob Katz was over the line saying that 009-fans must be deaf. That's inappropriate. And with the right material, the 009 can be glorious too.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

I find 007 (current MK2 version, with port mod) more transparent and fast than 009.
 009 exagerates small level details and has an artificial treble. My amp is neutral, with grain free treble and mids (KGSSHV Mini) and my DAC is not bright (PS Nuwave DSD via Singxer SU-1, i2s). My 007 sounds neutral and natural with my chain, but 009 not. Also, 007 spots better the source changes. Swapping PS Audio Nuwave for a worse DAC (Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 or Audient ID22) made it sound bright and thin, not natural and real like with the Nuwave DSD. 009 sounded thin and bright with the two DACs.
  
 If that's not the definition of transparency and speed...
  
 Don't want to dismiss anyone's opinion, but if one of the most reputed mastering engineers on the world says: "009 wasn't even a contender, you have to be deaf to prefer it over port modded 007", using his own mastered tracks and educated, critical ear, with tons of experience with reference grade audio transducers...you can't differ with him, sorry, he is not your regular clueless reviewer paid by a magazine.
  
 Brighter doesn't mean more transparent.


----------



## Redwingnine

One of the major reasons I went over to Stax was the transparency, speed, and overall tonal balance.  Have not heard a dynamic set of phones yet that can match what Stax does.


----------



## JimL11

paradoxper said:


> I think the 007 is transparent and fast. I also find the 009 more transparent and fast.
> 
> Therefore, I, for one, would rely on my own ears to reveal truths.
> 
> ...


 
 I definitely have old ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Not saying that any one person is "the authority," just disagree with the quoted statement in my previous post, and cited someone who has good ears, makes his living relying on his judgments, and made his judgment using material that he mastered himself, something which the rest of us don't have access to.


----------



## paradoxper

jiml11 said:


> I definitely have old ears.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sure. Just giving a little schiit. In the same vein of a builder such as Birgir touting whatever build is better than a T2.
  
 There are no truths, just what your old ears enjoy.


----------



## mulveling

If there is a Stax 010, I'm confident in the likelihood will be absolutely amazing, and redefine state-of-the-art in headphones. I'll want one immediately. While it's true that 007 detractors have diminished over time, it's also true that it's been around forever, and many of us have simply given up on it (after many tries) and moved on, no longer interested in discussing it further.


----------



## JimL11

For paradoxper, BTW, speaking of builds and T2, how is your T2 coming along?


----------



## catscratch

I expect Stax to either drop the price of the 009 and 007 (and maybe discontinue something) and release a flagship at the original price of the 009, or jump up another $2k or so. But I think the former scenario is more likely. Stax has no bling or fashionable style to draw customers in with, and the amp requirements are a turn-off for many. So their card is value and substance, and that's likely what they'll play. But then again, who knows. There are plenty of markets with enough disposable income being tossed around that a $10k+ headphone will find some buyers, especially one with a Stax badge on it. I just hope it won't be excessively bright.

I also want to see them release more value-minded models that are good, and not just crazy flagships. I'll have an L700 soon, we'll see if they fixed the classic Lambda problems with it. They also need to update that housing, it may have been fine decades ago but these days looking like a rejected prop from a 70s sci-fi B movie isn't really cutting it.

Ditto on the 007, it's all been said before. Plus, with all the different versions that have floated around over the years, and with the problem of driving them properly, it's just hard to even have a conversation about them, since you never really know what kind of sound is coming out of the system at each end of the conversation. Well, you do if you've heard it all, but...

FWIW you can always equalize the 009 and 007 to have a similar FR and see which one resolves more detail (assuming both are well driven).


----------



## Spork67

> I also want to see them release more value-minded models that are good, and not just crazy flagships. I'll have an L700 soon, we'll see if they fixed the classic Lambda problems with it.


 
  
 This.
 The sound from the midrange stuff is already on par with / better than dynamic HPs costing considerably more
 Even just updating the styling and materials (less brown plastic, more brushed alloy, or even some nice wood) would be nice to see and would almost certainly attract more people to the brand.


----------



## paradoxper

jiml11 said:


> For paradoxper, BTW, speaking of builds and T2, how is your T2 coming along?


 
 Parts are being polished and anodized. A little attenuator code yet to be done but close to completion.


----------



## nemomec

torofiestasol said:


> I find 007 (current MK2 version, with port mod) more transparent and fast than 009.
> 009 exagerates small level details and has an artificial treble. My amp is neutral, with grain free treble and mids (KGSSHV Mini) and my DAC is not bright (PS Nuwave DSD via Singxer SU-1, i2s). My 007 sounds neutral and natural with my chain, but 009 not. Also, 007 spots better the source changes. Swapping PS Audio Nuwave for a worse DAC (Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 or Audient ID22) made it sound bright and thin, not natural and real like with the Nuwave DSD. 009 sounded thin and bright with the two DACs.
> 
> If that's not the definition of transparency and speed...
> ...


 
  
 Sorry thats not true, i haven´t heard any SR-007 there are more transparent than a SR-009. With a little more Stax experience it´s easy to make following order:
  
 Stax SR-009
 Stax SR-Omega
 Stax SR-007 MK1 first series up to SN: 70xxx
 Stax SR-007 MK1
 Stax SR-007 MK2 SN: SZ2-xxxx
 Stax SR-L700 Advanced Lambda
 Stax SR-007 MK2 SZ3-xxxx
  
 The SR-009 is the most source depended headphone that i known and scales tremendously with the setup in both directions from worse to outstanding, that´s one reason for most people to choose a easier handling SR-007.
  
 For technicans its easy to verify the transparency of SR-009, take a Smyth Realizer and measure the above headhones in a very good loudspeaker setup and make a listen and decide which headphone the loudspeaker including room sounds most real.


----------



## a1uc

I'm trying to decide on the 009 or 007 you guys are making things hard


----------



## astrostar59

a1uc said:


> I'm trying to decide on the 009 or 007 you guys are making things hard


 

 Well see you have the excellent TotalDAC, so not a bright DAC problem looming for you. If it was a brighter (possible treble issue) front end it may have been better going 007s. So I would invest in the 009s and then look for the best amp you can get hold of. A KGSShv would be fine, a Carbon or BHSE better. TBH my previous KGSShv and DAC sounded fabulous with the 009 so you can't go too wrong IMO.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Aaah, this good ol' periodic - infinite loop 007mk1 vs. 009 talk 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Let's add more boring stuff to the pile, right after a session on my BHSE :
 - less high mids emphasis on 007, then less detail masking than 009...but no more details IMO
 - there's something a bit fuzzy about 007 highs, maybe the high level of 3-5 khz and 8 khz. Maybe it helps them retrieving details too
 - larger soundstage on 007, maybe a mix between tonal balance (not Sennheiser though) and deeper pads
 - way more impact on 009. BHSE does wake 007 up and leads them to a very satisfying level of energy, but hierarchy remains, DWI
 - slower bass on 007, not as textured nor extended as 009 bass
  
 I understand why one does prefer the older brother. From an audiophile point of view, 007 are more refined and less fatiguing, better for long sessions, especially with classical. 009 may sound a bit artificial and / or too "in your face", but I really do prefer this energetic presentation...007 are another way to hear things, I like them for what they are, but definitely a bit too polite for my tastes.

 Ali


----------



## arnaud

x2, sold my O2mk1 after the false hope of the bhse waking it up. Treble is also more natural sounding on the 009 to the ears in direct comparison. The only time I'd recommend the O2 is if you listen to high spl and / or subpar recordings (to some limited extent...).

Btw, posted in the dedicated thread already but it did not seem to me like there was a talk of sr009 successor in the fujiya article. A new amp hopefully ready to show next spring, that was it and wanting to do something special to celebrate 80th anniversary in ... 2018 ...

I don't have big hopes for the amp considering what it'd cost to release another T2 today. The BHSE truly is a bargain, can never appreciate this enough!

 Arnaud


----------



## catscratch

FWIW the new 007A is considerably less polite to my ears than the 007 Mk1, which, I agree, was too polite, even out of the BH. However I loved the tonality and resolution so I put up with the slightly sleepy dynamics. On the flip side, the new 007 doesn't quite have the same midrange tone, and there's something very slightly off about its mids to me, maybe a slight honkiness? But, so far I've only used it with the 717 and I haven't done the bass port mod, which could potentially help.

Even with the issues I quite like this new 007.

Oh, right. Fuel, meet fire.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I agree, 007mk2 are indeed more bumpy / energetic than 007mk1, but to the expense of technicity IMO. 009 remains ahead on both areas.
 YMMV, of course.

 Ali


----------



## zolkis

In my experience:
 - my modded 007 Mk1 (70xxx) is more open than the 007 Mk2.
 - the 007 Mk2 can be made sound better by taking out the springs (the port mod made it more muffled for me), but the extent of improvement is not that much as with the 007 Mk1.
 - the 009 sounds a tad more open that the modded 007 Mk1, and much more open than the 007 Mk2.
 - the modded 007 Mk1 is more dynamic (in both micro- and macro-dynamics) than the 009, and has slightly larger sound stage with even better location cues. It also sounds cleaner than the 009.
 - the SR-Omega is the best of all IMHO, slightly better than the modded 007 Mk1 (they are really close, but the SR-Omega takes no mods for that, has more mids - like the 009 but with much better treble than the 009). Also, its bass is phenomenal.
  
 I've heard the 009 used with a copper-only cable will sound better - but I have not taken the chance to verify this.
  
 If a new Stax flagship will be voiced like the SR-Omega and maybe improved even more, it will be on my short-list...


----------



## JimL11

paradoxper said:


> Parts are being polished and anodized. A little attenuator code yet to be done but close to completion.


 

 Very cool!  I build some of my own stuff but the cost and complexity of the T2 has put me off so anyone who is building one has my admiration.  OTOH I recently splurged on a BHSE and SR009, haven't had a chance to listen to it yet.  We shall see.


----------



## a1uc

What is the avg used price on a BHSE ? And a good place to score a pair 
of new 009


----------



## NoPants

i scrapped the 009 with the bhse combo, ended up settling on the t2 with 007 and omegas. i think there's more merit in chasing after the new carbon or circlotron these days after all the bs i went through putting the t2 together, but there's definitely something special about the sound compared to everything i'd heard beforehand


----------



## Ali-Pacha

a1uc said:


> What is the avg used price on a BHSE ? And a good place to score a pair
> of new 009


 
 The issue is more availability than price, really. BTW, they are more or less at MSRP (around $6000) when they pop out.
 Pricejapan used to be a reliable source for 009, but it looks like they went radio silent, and Stax's policy about grey market becomes tougher these days...

 Ali


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

nemomec said:


> *009=brighter, not more transparent*


 
  
 Fixed that for you


----------



## a1uc

I'm using the Chord Dave with the Abyss / Utopia and just trying to 
figure out if this is a good detection and of you heard my current 2 
hp ? thoughts


----------



## Redwingnine

Although I'm somewhat new to the world of high end Stax phones, it's pretty obvious that there seems to be a wide range of "opinions" as to the relative merits of of the various incarnations of the SR 007 vs the SR 009, along with the amps to drive them.   Certainly, when someone with an extensive background in music such as Mr. Katz recommends/uses a specific setup he is happy with, that is at least worth some consideration.  
  
 Whenever a given person assigns levels of truth as to the merits of products such as the high end Stax headphones, it seems to me that this is a mixing of opinions with perceived truth.  What is valid for one is not valid for another.  While experience over time with these products helps making determinations as to which is best for them, that does not necessarily mean it will be best for another.
  
 The diversity of opinions with the SR 007 and SR 009 expressed here makes for interesting reading.  I've certainly gained a fair bit of background knowledge from reading these threads.  Very much looking forward to the headphone journey going forward, as a SR 007 will arrive next week.  Will also look into other amp options such as a KGSS to evaluate the differences from the SRM 007 tA.


----------



## nemomec

torofiestasol said:


> nemomec said:
> 
> 
> > *009=brighter, not more transparent*
> ...


 

 I think you haven´t understand my post and it´s make no sense for a further serios discussion with you.


----------



## thinker

nemomec said:


> Sorry thats not true, i haven´t heard any SR-007 there are more transparent than a SR-009. With a little more Stax experience it´s easy to make following order:
> The SR-009 is the most source depended headphone that i known and scales tremendously with the setup in both directions from worse to outstanding, that´s one reason for most people to choose a easier handling SR-007.
> 
> For technicans its easy to verify the transparency of SR-009, take a Smyth Realizer and measure the above headhones in a very good loudspeaker setup and make a listen and decide which headphone the loudspeaker including room sounds most real.My si


 
 My order is this on top electrostatics:
  
 QA Float latest tweak/Transdyn power active supply-seriously yes if the whole chain is perfect
 Orpheus HE-1
 SR-Omega 1/slightly above SR- 009 considering it as a whole it has more authority and musicality than SR-009
 Stax SR-009/not as musical as SR-007
 Stax SR-007 MK1 first series up to SN: 70xxx/with pad mods above SR-009
 Orpheus HE-90/ would be almost on top if not diffusive
 Stax SR-007 MK1/ some people consider this above HE-90 i would say 50/50
 Stax SR-007 MK2 SN: SZ2-xxxx
 Stax SR-007 MK2 SZ3-xxxx
 Stax L-700
 HE-60


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

nemomec said:


> I think you haven´t understand my post and it´s make no sense for a further serios discussion with you.


 
  
 Wise decision.
 I don't like to discuss when I'm right.


----------



## JimL11

ali-pacha said:


> The issue is more availability than price, really. BTW, they are more or less at MSRP (around $6000) when they pop out.
> Pricejapan used to be a reliable source for 009, but it looks like they went radio silent, and Stax's policy about grey market becomes tougher these days...
> 
> Ali


 

 Not to mention, with the potential of 009s that are out of balance (a reported problem but nobody knows how prevalent it is), if you buy gray market and get one that becomes defective, you have to send it back to Japan for servicing.


----------



## MacedonianHero

torofiestasol said:


> Fixed that for you


 
  
*007=darker, and less transparent.  <--- there we go...fixed. *






 [I keed, I keed]
  
 I own both, (007Mk1 and 009), love both, but the 009s are in my top 3 or 4 headphones of all time. The 007s are in my top 10 and get considerably less head time. Heard them both on KGSSHV (used to own...both versions), LL2, LL2T, BHSE and even a DIY T-2.
  
  
 YMMV of course...


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

*Deaf*initely not agree 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hope the new Stax flagship will be a tremendous improvement over anything ever made, so finally we can agree on something 
  
 However, 009 could be much worse, it could be a Lampizator DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (okay, I stop here)


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Please, no urinating contest there, some do prefer 009, some others do prefer 007, everything's fine...as long as no one does praise Audeze 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

ali-pacha said:


> Please, no urinating contest there, some do prefer 009, some others do prefer 007, everything's fine...as long as no one does praise Audeze
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Or Lampizator


----------



## Jones Bob

ali-pacha said:


> Please, no urinating contest there, some do prefer 009, some others do prefer 007, everything's fine...as long as no one does praise Audeze
> 
> Ali




Audeze does have a very efficient repair return process.


----------



## gnnett

Hi
  
 Just searched and could find no reference to this schematic here. I suspect the thought of using transformers is viewed as a backward step by many, but thought it might interest some.
  
 http://peteslab.blogspot.com.au/2015/11/stax-2a3-se-amplifier.html
  
 Regards
  
 Grant


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## JimL11

Well, he specifies 250 VRMS as max output, which is a bit on the low side.  Even the Stax SRM-T1 specifies a max output of 300 VRMS, the SRM-727 goes to 450 VRMS, the BHSE over 560 VRMS.  My SRX Plus also puts out at least 300 VRMS and is less expensive (no expensive transformers or expensive 2A3 tubes, although it is for stat headphones only).


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## yaluen

zolkis said:


> I have a new reference in tonality and timbre: the Gamma Pro with protein leather Bose ear pads.
> It has displaced my modded (in Purrin style) HD650 and 009 in that, both of which measure excellent, but sound-wise the modified Gamma Pro slaughters the HD650 in every respect.
> The 009 (and 007) is still better overall (bass, stage, fine dynamic gradation etc), but the Gamma has no problems with the highs, it sounds so natural, full, energetic, and velvet-smooth - especially cello and piano sound so real. I've spent much of the night listening to cello+piano .
> The Omegas have more bass slam, but the modded Gamma Pro does not lack in bass.
> ...


 
  


zolkis said:


> Speaking of mechanical damping, I really like the ugly plastic headband on the Gamma Pro, with continuous adjustment, almost no mass and most of all, no ringing! .
> Also, I had to remove the thin wool sheet and foam layer from the back of the driver because they were decomposing and losing particles, and noticed it sounds much better without them (with no big FR change). For what is worth, the 007 (and 009) don't have anything behind the drivers (except the metallic mesh).


 
  


zolkis said:


> If it's going to be a 80 year anniversary statement product, with a price tag to match, I'd probably stay with the modded 007, and eventually try to get an SR-Omega... though I am still so enamored with my modded Gamma Pro that at the moment it really fills the gap for having a second view to music .


 
  
 Hey, great to hear someone else with an appreciation for the Gamma Pro!
  
 I'm in agreement with you about the relative pros and cons of the Gamma Pro vs Omegas. To add, I hear it as sitting in between the 007 and 009 in terms of tonal balance. Bass has a more immediate presence (tradeoff of textural nuance unfortunately), less accurate but more satisfying. In fact, its overall presentation is more upfront vs the Omegas and other over-ear Stax (I guess to be expected given its smaller construction). Makes for a different kind of listening experience, less grand but super engaging. Perhaps my favourite Stax headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For pads, I have a set of these (http://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000102586/) installed on an Alpha Pro. Ear cavity is a bit snug but my ears fit inside just fine. They're also thicker than stock pads so I end up having to adjust the headpad to its top-most setting for the cans to fit my head. However, my ears no longer touch the baffle, and situating the drivers further away seem to alleviate some shout that occasionally crop up in male vocals. Now the main differentiating feature is that a quarter of the pad is slightly thicker than the rest for better seal to the lower rear jaw. Perhaps something to consider for your custom pads? Stax themselves tried this with the pads for the followup Alpha Pro Excellent model, here are a couple comparison photos:


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## zolkis

Those pads on the right look good! Since then I've changed the pads from Bose to Brainwavz flat leather pads, just a little softer in bass, but very comfortable! For the new pads I am looking for similar pads as the Bose, just slightly larger diameter. Or similar pads as the original, just higher. The Brainwavz provide that and they are thicker and softer too, while keeping the ear side volume similar. That helps keeping bass impact. With the larger volume 007 pads the driver loading changes and there is less bass impact.
I can try to get some of these pads and measure them.


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## VandyMan

redwingnine said:


> Certainly, when someone with an extensive background in music such as Mr. Katz recommends/uses a specific setup he is happy with, that is at least worth some consideration.


 

 I agree that it is worth some consideration. On the other hand... Bob Katz is a big fan of the Oppo PM-3s. Tyll Hertsens does not like them. If you take a look at the "The Closed Wars" topic here, you will see wide disagreement. One should not put too much weight in any one reviewers opinion even if the reviewer has sterling credentials.


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## joseph69

I found you simply need to hear a headphone for yourself and take anyones opinions/impressions with a grain of salt…especially those who get paid for it.
  
 I've been really surprised at how much I didn't care for many "TOTL" headphones at all while others raved about them. Also, every new $4K+ headphone seems to be the "worlds best" headphone these days. It's ridiculous.


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## rnros

vandyman said:


> I agree that it is worth some consideration. On the other hand... Bob Katz is a big fan of the Oppo PM-3s. Tyll Hertsens does not like them. If you take a look at the "The Closed Wars" topic here, you will see wide disagreement. One should not put too much weight in any one reviewers opinion even if the reviewer has sterling credentials.


 

 I agree with your point in general, and also on some existing limitations of the PM-3s, but the comment about Tyll Hertsens I think is misleading. He includes the PM-3s in the Wall of Fame list and the comments are very positive.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame-full-size-sealed#TkYIaGFIkgTJz2Ql.97
  
 Not a TOTL, but for what it delivers at the price point, it has it's place. Probably why it's on the Wall of Fame list.


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## Boblehman

Hi all, longtime Stax lover but still a newbie here. I've posted versions of this query on some other threads with little response so far. Older Stax headphones like my SR-Xs had mineral wool acoustic damping pads behind the transducers to minimize reflections from the ear cup inner surfaces (which interfere with the direct sound toward the ears). I've now discovered that some older Lambda designs also had such wool pads [although my Signatures didn't, a colleague's Pros do, and all of the newer designs apparently don't]. Does anyone know why Stax did it both ways and has evidently abandoned the wool pads [or do any newer designs in fact have them]? I believe that they significantly improve the sound, minimizing the phasey comb filtering sound that occurs without them. Old posts on other fora stated that these pads were available from Stax USA / Yama's Inc / Accutech, but they're no longer listed on their website. I've modified my SR-307s with a substitute material and am very happy with the improved sound quality, but I still wonder what I may be missing here because Stax stopped using the mineral wool.


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## VandyMan

rnros said:


> I agree with your point in general, and also on some existing limitations of the PM-3s, but the comment about Tyll Hertsens I think is misleading. He includes the PM-3s in the Wall of Fame list and the comments are very positive.
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame-full-size-sealed#TkYIaGFIkgTJz2Ql.97
> 
> Not a TOTL, but for what it delivers at the price point, it has it's place. Probably why it's on the Wall of Fame list.




My wording was inexact, but Tyll made no mention of the PM-3 in his recent Ether C Flow review. Yet he listed and recommended several other closed-backs at various price points in the review. The PM-3 used to be my office headphones until I got the Ether C. I agree with Bob Katz that the PM-3s are really good neutral headphones; especially for a closed-back. However, I was making an anology for the 007/009 debate and we should get back to discussing STAX...


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## goobicii

Ciclotron.... anybody heard it/build it?


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## Spork67

Quick question:
 Are the Stax dust-covers necessary?
 I live in a cool temperate region, with generally low humidity, and not a particularly dusty environment.
 I've read everything from "You need them all the time for all STAX HPs" to "Only need for older models" or "Don't need at all unless you live in a jungle or a desert".
 I have 404's.


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## Michgelsen

spork67 said:


> Quick question:
> Are the Stax dust-covers necessary?
> I live in a cool temperate region, with generally low humidity, and not a particularly dusty environment.
> I've read everything from "You need them all the time for all STAX HPs" to "Only need for older models" or "Don't need at all unless you live in a jungle or a desert".
> I have 404's.


 
  
 No, they're not necessary. Stax electrostatics have their drivers covered on both sides with a plastic membrane for this purpose, so all drivers are dust covered already, unless someone poked a hole in them. I'm not sure whether all of the very old models have it. I personally do keep my 007s in a plastic bag, because 'can't hurt, might help, costs nothing'.
 Electrostatics from other brands do not always have good dust covers. Some of those can develop dust problems, which you will hear as intermittent and faint buzzing, crackling or screeching sounds.


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## hpeter

gnnett said:


> Hi
> 
> Just searched and could find no reference to this schematic here. I suspect the thought of using transformers is viewed as a backward step by many, but thought it might interest some.
> 
> ...







jiml11 said:


> Well, he specifies 250 VRMS as max output, which is a bit on the low side.  Even the Stax SRM-T1 specifies a max output of 300 VRMS, the SRM-727 goes to 450 VRMS, the BHSE over 560 VRMS.  My SRX Plus also puts out at least 300 VRMS and is less expensive (no expensive transformers or expensive 2A3 tubes, although it is for stat headphones only).


 Thanks for digging up my blog. That voltage limit is because of iron´s limit. Rest of circuit can take more.
It may look like a low volume, but i´ve never listened to max. Do not want to be deaf, it´s very loud! Stax says 100Vrms/100dB.
IMO, this voltage chasing is like "need" for 500W speaker amps in your room. All it does, is just ear damage.

See yourself. Listen to test tone, measure amp Vrms out where volume starts to be loud. You will be surprised, how little voltage is needed. 
If you have problem with amp pot turned to max, and still it sounds quiet;, then it´s likely not voltage out problem, but low gain issue. (audio chain giving low output, or your stax amp has low gain )

Why tubes & irons is simple, i wanted some warm sound touch, since stax is so transparent.
And tubes are a high voltage devices, can take high peak abuse. Better distortion profile than transistors.


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## Redwingnine

The SR 007's arrived yesterday.  Initial impressions are very positive indeed.  They are a step up from the SR-507's in both overall sonic presentation and comfort.  Instruments and vocals both to seem have a bit more realism, sound stage is improved in both width and depth.  It does sound like one is further back in the symphony hall with the 007's compared to the 507's.  The 507's sound a bit brighter to me.  
  
 Another thing I've noticed is that the 007's sound is improved using the Stax SRM-007 tA over the SRM 006 tII.  The difference in amps is not so noticeable with 507's.  
  
 For classical listening, the SR 007's are amazing.  I think for rock/blues, the SR 507's are fine, as the tonal balance seems to suit the music.
  
 It seems that preferences with headphones really get rather subjective, perhaps more so than normal playback setups with speakers.  No two peoples hearing response curve is alike, so I'm sure that factors into this some.  
  
 Over the next few months, would like to know more about the amps available to drive these wonderful headphones.  Always been partial to tubes to drive headphones.  For now, will be enjoying the SR 007's.


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## zolkis

redwingnine said:


> Another thing I've noticed is that the 007's sound is improved using the Stax SRM-007 tA over the SRM 006 tII.  The difference in amps is not so noticeable with 507's.
> 
> Over the next few months, would like to know more about the amps available to drive these wonderful headphones.  Always been partial to tubes to drive headphones.  For now, will be enjoying the SR 007's.


 
  
 I suggest you spend more time with the 007tA before jumping to other amps, in order to get familiar with its sound and with your expectations. Some of the things you will feel missing will likely come not necessarily from the limitations of the amp, but perhaps the headphones as well. So also try a 009 with the 007tA if you can, at least for reference.
  
 If you prefer tube amps, you'll probably want the KGST or BHSE or SRX (http://www.head-fi.org/t/85561/post-pics-of-your-builds/8985#post_9169825).
  
 Before going there, eventually try to get someone to improve the power supply of the 007tA, or make an external PSU.


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## HiFiIsExpensive

Does anyone know what tubes/valves to get for the SRM 007t as I believe mine needs replacement.
  
 Thanks!


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## Redwingnine

You need 4 6CG7/6FQ7 tubes.  I would elect to obtain NOS tubes, as I found that they provided improvement over the stock Electro Harmonics tubes.  The unit in theory should be adjusted as well.


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## HiFiIsExpensive

redwingnine said:


> You need 4 6CG7/6FQ7 tubes.  I would elect to obtain NOS tubes, as I found that they provided improvement over the stock Electro Harmonics tubes.  The unit in theory should be adjusted as well.


 

 Thank you for the quick respond. I just got the SR 007 mk 1 today along with the SRm 007t, However, I am unsure if the tubes are burnt out as only one channel has sound coming out. 
  
 I will keep that in mind of the tubes I should get cheers!


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## joseph69

hifiisexpensive said:


> Thank you for the quick respond. I just got the SR 007 mk 1 today along with the SRm 007t, However, I am unsure if the tubes are burnt out as only one channel has sound coming out.
> 
> I will keep that in mind of the tubes I should get cheers!


 
 Congratulations.
 Swap out the tubes and you'll know.


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## rgs9200m

I will probably sell my 007ta amp w/the upgraded RCA tubes soon if anyone wants it (good price). Just a heads up.


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## forestitalia

Someone could suggest me a Stax service centre?
I have the sr507 with right channel imbalance, it is about 30% lower, mostly the bass. The cable is damaged, maybe a spark between wires occcured.
 
Now I live in UAE, tried to contact Stax Japan, they not even answer me, very upsetting considering I just bought an L700 too.
 
Some international service can repair my 507? I love it with heavy rock.


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## AnakChan

forestitalia said:


> Someone could suggest me a Stax service centre?
> I have the sr507 with right channel imbalance, it is about 30% lower, mostly the bass. The cable is damaged, maybe a spark between wires occcured.
> 
> Now I live in UAE, tried to contact Stax Japan, they not even answer me, very upsetting considering I just bought an L700 too.
> ...


 
  
 Stax Japan has been clear in the past that overseas models/units should have their repairs managed by their international distributors.
  
 So where did you buy your SR507? Have you talked to them?


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## bnsb

Here is link to a an offer to repair Stax in the Sale thread.
  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/824712/electrostatic-headphone-repair-stax-sennheiser-jecklin-float


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## forestitalia

anakchan said:


> Stax Japan has been clear in the past that overseas models/units should have their repairs managed by their international distributors.
> 
> So where did you buy your SR507? Have you talked to them?


 
 I had the 507 as part exchange from a friend in UK.
 I'm not interested in starting a discussion about Stax policy and blabla, I'm looking for someone I PAY to do the job. 
  
 If is not possible repair a Stax out of warranty in the world that will affects my future purchases for sure.


----------



## Xecuter

I recently had a chance to have a listen to isquirrels Rig - Aurender/MSB Select dac/electro stat amp + SR009.
 Let it be known that my previous experience with the SR009 with BHSE, SRM727II, KGHSSV and a few other amps has always left me disappointed in the 009.
 This brief review will discuss the MSB Select amp with the SR009.
  
 This is just my opinion and I’m sure many will not agree, but that’s why we are here, to share opinions.
 The 009 from the BHSE is my reference with 009 and honestly, still my reference for the CLARITY possible from a headphone, do not mistake this for microdetail or plankton. The 009 in my opinion is NOT the hyper-detail king it is often hyped as.
  
  
 The 009 is a fantastic tool for hearing pinpoint imaging, it has good transient response and separates instruments in well recorded pieces exceptionally well, however its ability to render low level information is good but not great. I often wondered if this was due to the lack of differing amplifier topographies and lack of competition or just a limitation of the driver design.
  
 I don’t even mind that the 009 is not the ultra-resolving can I was told it is, I have a bigger gripe with the 009, which is why I never bothered to own it. My previous experience with the 009 is that it is not musical. The separation and clarity often distracted me away from the music and it was ruining even well recorded music. For perfectly recorded, simple, classical pieces with only a few instruments, it was exceptional. Hands down, the best for this genre of music. However, a lot of well recorded blues, jazz, big hall orchestral which is my predominant listening material sounded outright bad from the 009. It lacked cohesion and had a tendency to accentuate unpleasantness in the recording.
  
 When I first heard the 009 - 2 years ago, my first thought was this thing is so detailed I will need to delete my entire music collection and start again, but the more I listened to my reference tracks, the more I realized it wasn’t picking up on more detail or the quality of the recording was not up to scratch, it was just the 009 driver. I had to try it again from a few more set ups with different DACs and I firmly believed the 009 was just not capable of sounding musical and cohesive.
  
 This was all until I heard it from the MSB Select Electrostatic amp. This is not the KG/stax topography stuff as some are claiming, whatever it is, it something entirely different. That was very obvious to me. As soon as I heard it, I thought the sr009 was modified, it was not.
  
 The sr009 from the MSB Select amp was musical. It was actually enjoyable with a wider range of music and left me rather confused. It had decent weight and timbre which I had never ever heard on anyone’s Stax 009 rig (even those with 100k USD upstream).  Yet clarity and the famous 009 speed and precision was still there now with cohesion, texture and musicality. This was the best I had heard the 009.
  
 I still don't think microdetail was really improved from this amp, so I will continue to assume it is a limitation of the 009 driver itself. What do I mean by this..  It’s hard to describe but it’s the subtle stuff like the noises from the singer’s lips/lipstick parting, the ability to tell me not just that there is a gentle maraca in the back left of the band but and when the beads are colliding with the shell but the rough size and material of those beads, yet somehow doesn’t draw me away from the rest of the collaboration. Some call this plankton, some amps are able to dig it up and fewer transducers can render it properly. Point is clarity =/= detail IMO.
  
 This amplifier is a must hear for stax fans. Unfortunately, it is out of the price point of most people (38k USD). I do hope that whatever this tech is, trickles down to a more affordable level. I do not believe this amp is KG/stax/headcase in nature at all, the voicing is unlike any other electrostatic amp I have heard. This is by far the most enjoyment I have had from the sr009 trumping the BHSE, however it was not enough to convince me to move in this direction. Maybe other transducers like the Shangri-la, future stax models or new players will make a headphone that pushes the stat technology further and in a direction I may prefer.
  
 I will be interested to see how isquirrel goes improving on this sound, as he is a man determined to obtain the maximum potential of a transducer, however I am unsure if the SR009 will go where he wants to take it.
  
 I have heard seen people try to discredit MSB due to a potential error in their marketing regarding their products performance. Honestly, marketing in audio is full of hullaballoo and information totally irrelevant to what could actually be heard by a human being. I listened to the voicing of this amp and I think it beyond anything I have heard from KG/Headamp/stax. I can only encourage you guys to give it a try.
  
 Happy Listening
 Xec


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## yates7592

Thanks for posting your valuable impressions here. I don't think many of us will ever get to hear the MSB amp. Just a question, and not trying to diss your impressions, but how much of an influence do you think the MSB Select DAC had on what you heard? In other words, I wonder how the sound would be if listening via MSB Select DAC and a different electrostatic amp?


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## Xecuter

yates7592 said:


> Thanks for posting your valuable impressions here. I don't think many of us will ever get to hear the MSB amp. Just a question, and not trying to diss your impressions, but how much of an influence do you think the MSB Select DAC had on what you heard? In other words, I wonder how the sound would be if listening via MSB Select DAC and a different electrostatic amp?


 
  
 I think there are many factors that need to be considered from this sort of review. The Dac is one important factor. So is the Aurender w20. I heard an older aurender w20 firmware with obvious mid bass bloom that totally changed the signature.
  
 I did not have my reference DAC with me to compare and this was also my first time heading the Select II. So unfortunately I can't place weight on what actually was the major influence.
  
 I have heard the other electrostat amps from a few different very high end sources/dacs with different signatures. So again it's very hard for someone to read the review and get a good idea because there are always going to be so many variables and differences in taste etc.


----------



## Beolab

xecuter said:


> I recently had a chance to have a listen to isquirrels Rig - Aurender/MSB Select dac/electro stat amp + SR009.
> Let it be known that my previous experience with the SR009 with BHSE, SRM727II, KGHSSV and a few other amps has always left me disappointed in the 009.
> This brief review will discuss the MSB Select amp with the SR009.
> 
> ...




Great informative short listening notes, always nice to read! 


Just out of curiosity cam you develop the fact in short that MSB has an error in the marketing technical specs ? What is the error they have wrote wrongly in the specs?


----------



## rgs9200m

I had a very good time last night listening to my SR009 with lots of popular music. It's very musical. 
 But nevertheless, it is definitely more raw and open-sounding than my SR007 mk 2.5 (current model).
  
 So there are plusses and minuses to the 009. It's exciting with more distinctly defined images and vocals,
 and the placement of musical objects and their size feels better defined.
 So in that sense it's more realistic. 
  
 The SR009 is more thrilling, like a roller-coaster ride. And if you have a decent digital front end and amplifier, the highs are present and clear but not abusive.
 The highs are not shrill and they don't make my teeth hurt of give me headaches like some other headphones can do with strong music.
 At least that's my experience and I do turn my SR009 often for this kind of fun.
  
 But all in all, I prefer my SR007, because the images are just more silky, and the atmosphere around them seems a little thicker and humid and even a bit foggy.
 The image placement is not as well layered as the 009, but that's a small sacrifice I'm happy to make.
  
 And maybe there is, just sometimes, a touch more grain to midrange sounds like male vocals in the SR007 vs. the sheer continuity of sustained notes on the SR009.
 But that bit of graininess is kind on a Stax-texture thing that I have heard in all Stax phones I have used for 25 years now and I accept (and maybe even like since I'm so used to it with Stax).
 It's like you are really close to someone speaking an inch from your ear, so you can hear some roughness, so in a strange way it sounds natural.
  
 In the 009, things seem to sound smooth as liquid and glass at all times to me.
 I can't even decide which is more true-to-life.
  
 I just prefer the ease on the SR007 that I slip on like an old shoe, maybe with a few warts and all, since it has that good-old unique fast but sweet warm full-of-detail combination of Stax traits that make me feel right at home
 and are unique to Stax.


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## Xecuter

MSB quoted -170db measurement, nothing exists than can measure that. And also their original Signal to noise ratio on spec sheet was impossible under normal conditions.
As I said this stuff doesn't worry to me. It could just be a typo, but I have heard many people say they won't give it a chance because of this advertising. That's the only reason I mentioned it.


----------



## arnaud

An attempt at translating the recent stax tour / interview: http://www.head-fi.org/t/829843/stax-sr-009-and-t2-successors-confirmed-for-spring-2017/45#post_13130037
  
 cheers,
 arnaud


----------



## fogwall

I have an old Stax Sigma, connected via the energizer SRD-7.
  
 I recently discovered a channel imbalance. The right/left proportion is something like 70/30.
  
 Changing amp did not help.
  
 I also noticed that the SRD-7 does not change the sound when powered on. If I leave it powered off, the sound is the same. Same volume, same imbalance.
  
 Is the problem caused by a faulty energizer? Any suggestions?


----------



## HemiSam

redwingnine said:


> The SR 007's arrived yesterday.  Initial impressions are very positive indeed.  They are a step up from the SR-507's in both overall sonic presentation and comfort.  Instruments and vocals both to seem have a bit more realism, sound stage is improved in both width and depth.  It does sound like one is further back in the symphony hall with the 007's compared to the 507's.  The 507's sound a bit brighter to me.
> 
> Another thing I've noticed is that the 007's sound is improved using the Stax SRM-007 tA over the SRM 006 tII.  The difference in amps is not so noticeable with 507's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 There are some great deals on used KGSSHV amps these days.  I own two at the moment that I had built for me: the KGSSHV Carbon and the KGST.  The 007A's are one of my favorite pair of cans and I was surprised to experience how well they scale.  Some folks read this to mean you the poster is suggesting you have to go buy a more powerful and transparent amplifier to enjoy them.  That is not the case here, but what I would suggest is if you can have a listen to your 007A's with an aftermarket amplifier like a KGSSHV, then I strongly recommend you do.  I argue that they will indeed impress you more so than just some marginal improvement.  
  
 I do not profess to have golden ears...far from the truth as I'm middle aged and my hearing has gone with the years, but I can plainly state that I was surprised that the Carbon took my 007A's above the KGST, as an example.  They both blow away the Stax amp's I have had the pleasure to listen to a meets.  What I cannot argue is that the Carbon was worth the money for value improvement from the KGST...that is very much a personal choice.  The KGST was very good and would have been a satisfying option for the rest of my listening years...truly.  It just surprised me that the Carbon further fleshed the ability of the 007A's out and the bottom tightened up as much.  Not a different headphone, just more effectively exploited / powered.  This is all to say that your 007A's will indeed scale impressively when powered well.
  
 I would recommend you listen before you buy if possible.  If you are budget conscience, purchase a used KGSSHV that suits you (size, heat it might put off vs the location you can place it, voltage rating, number of outputs and inputs, volume potentiometer, color, etc...) from a reputable seller.  There are some amazingly good people here and a few sharks so be thoughtful about who you buy from...look for a good reputation and use PayPal or the like.
  
 You can get some great deals on the older versions of the KGSSHV's and you will get great results.  If you are comfortable paying for a KGSSHV Carbon, I can profess that my Ygg > Carbon > 007A is a great combo if you like the 007A's.  I did not want to fiddle with the BHSE and, personally, prefer a warmer sound signature so have not pursued one.  I am also not a fan of the Cavalli products...sorry.  Not good value for money IMHO.
  
 My two bits.  Best of luck on your journey.  Happy New Year!
  
 HS


----------



## JimL11

redwingnine said:


> The SR 007's arrived yesterday.  Initial impressions are very positive indeed.  They are a step up from the SR-507's in both overall sonic presentation and comfort.  Instruments and vocals both to seem have a bit more realism, sound stage is improved in both width and depth.  It does sound like one is further back in the symphony hall with the 007's compared to the 507's.  The 507's sound a bit brighter to me.
> 
> Another thing I've noticed is that the 007's sound is improved using the Stax SRM-007 tA over the SRM 006 tII.  The difference in amps is not so noticeable with 507's.
> 
> ...


 

 SR007s are considered harder to drive than most other Stax headphones due to their frequency balance.  They have less output in the 2-5kHz range where the ear is most sensitive than most other Stax headphones. This is the region that we use to determine how "loud" something sounds so they need more power to reach the same subjective loudness level.
  
 The pure tube stat amps currently available include the Woo GES, which is based on the Kevin Gilmore all triode amp design from the early 1990s.  The Aristaeus from HeadAmp is another all tube design which is based on the Sennheiser HEV90 amp designed to drive the HE90 headphones.  Both are considered somewhat marginal for driving the SR007.  Other tube designs include the Woo WES, which uses choke output loads, and the Ray Samuels A10, both of which have received somewhat mixed reviews (see InnerFidelity website). Considering there are less expensive amps that have better reviews I consider them relatively poor value for money, but that's just my opinion.
  
 Two almost pure tube designs are the Gilmore Megatron and the SRX Plus, both of which have solid state current sources and loads but use tubes for all the signal handling, however they are both DIY only.  The SRX Plus uses 60 watts of power, whereas the Megatron uses over 200 watts and can almost double as a space heater in the winter.  Both are capable of driving the SR007.
  
 Your Stax SRM-007tii is actually a hybrid amp, as are all of Stax's "tube" amps, with a solid state input and intermediate section and tubes only in the output section.  Due to its output stage design, it is somewhat marginal for driving the SR007s, and the SRM-006 is even more compromised.  The KGST, designed by Kevin Gilmore, is similar topology to the SRM-007 but uses more powerful 6S4A output tubes and current source loads so that those tubes are much more efficient at delivering current to the headphones.  The BHSE is the ultimate development of a hybrid amp, with the much more powerful EL34 output tubes triode strapped with grounded grid drive, which is the most linear output topology - it is a limited commercial production amp available from HeadAmp.
  
 Solid state amps include a number of Gilmore designs including the KGSS (oldest), KGSSHV (newer) and KGSS Carbon (newest and best), and the Cavilli Liquid Lightning.  Cavilli also made a Liquid Lightning Mk IIT which used tubes in the 3rd intermediate stage but not the output, which is a rather curious design decision considering the same tube works well as an output tube in the GES and the KGST.  
  
 The KG designs are available from Mjolnir Audio, and there are a couple other "hobbyist" builders that will build you one on commission, often with build quality that matches or exceeds most commercial designs.
  
 The SRX Plus and all the Gilmore designs have a regulated power supply, as do the Cavilli amps.  None of the Stax amps have a regulated power supply.  Don't know about the others, but the Woo and Ray Samuels websites don't mention regulated power supplies, and I would think they would do so if they had them.  Or course regulated power supplies are more expensive than passive supplies.
  
 I have only heard the Stax SRM-T1, SRM-727 with global feedback mod, SRX Plus, and BHSE, so take it for what it's worth.


----------



## soren_brix

fogwall said:


> I have an old Stax Sigma, connected via the energizer SRD-7.
> 
> I recently discovered a channel imbalance. The right/left proportion is something like 70/30.
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds like your Sigma's are stucked with residual charge.
 Try leaving them connected to the SRD-7 (powered on) for a day or two ... pull out the plug, and discharge the Sigma's by placing your thumb on the legs of the plug ... you might have to do this exercise a number of times 
 (you don't have to play music ...just leave the Sigma's pluged in, and the charger powered up)


----------



## HiFiIsExpensive

fogwall said:


> I have an old Stax Sigma, connected via the energizer SRD-7.
> 
> I recently discovered a channel imbalance. The right/left proportion is something like 70/30.
> 
> ...


 

 How much did you buy the Sigma's for? Do they happen to be the Pro version?


----------



## fogwall

soren_brix said:


> Sounds like your Sigma's are stucked with residual charge.
> Try leaving them connected to the SRD-7 (powered on) for a day or two ... pull out the plug, and discharge the Sigma's by placing your thumb on the legs of the plug ... you might have to do this exercise a number of times
> (you don't have to play music ...just leave the Sigma's pluged in, and the charger powered up)


 
  
 Thanks, but it did not help.
  


hifiisexpensive said:


> How much did you buy the Sigma's for? Do they happen to be the Pro version?


 
  
 I purchased these via eBay for something like $450, they are not the Pro version. They have worked great until a month ago when the imbalance issue started.


----------



## HiFiIsExpensive

fogwall said:


> Thanks, but it did not help.
> 
> 
> I purchased these via eBay for something like $450, they are not the Pro version. They have worked great until a month ago when the imbalance issue started.




You can get a dedicated stax amp that has a knob go adject imbalances, which solves the problem at the cost of spending more money :/


----------



## astrostar59

fogwall said:


> I have an old Stax Sigma, connected via the energizer SRD-7.
> 
> I recently discovered a channel imbalance. The right/left proportion is something like 70/30.
> 
> ...


 

 I am wondering if your SRD7 has a problem? If it doesn't 'amplify' and you get the same level straight from the power amp outputs then something is amiss. Maybe the SRD7 has damaged the HP drives? The SRD7 is 20+ years old, the trans may be end of live, the caps gone etc...


----------



## astrostar59

xecuter said:


> I have heard seen people try to discredit MSB due to a potential error in their marketing regarding their products performance. Honestly, marketing in audio is full of hullaballoo and information totally irrelevant to what could actually be heard by a human being. I listened to the voicing of this amp and I think it beyond anything I have heard from KG/Headamp/stax. I can only encourage you guys to give it a try.
> 
> Happy Listening
> Xec


 
 Great write up there.
  
 My challenge to your review is simply you may have different tastes. There is the Abyss club, the Audeze, the Hifi-Man clubs. Stats are not for everyone.
  
 IMO the 009 is VERY fast and digs out maybe too much micro detail for some, or some systems. I also believe after owning the 009 for 3 years and trying it with various amps and DAC sources, it needs a warm slanting amp or DAC, otherwise it can sound synthetic. Actually I also find many 'high end' DACs sound synthetic with revealing fast speakers. But IMO if you have the right front end and an amp that is not too bright, the 009 is heavenly. I really can't see myself straying away from it. I haven't heard the Utopia, but I have heard the HD800s, the Abyss, the LCD3 and 4.
  
 Back on subject, if the MSB Select plus the Stat amp didn't sound amazing, then it would be rather stupid at over 100K USD. The HE-1 is 50K and I would wonder if that was better? But not having heard either I will not say anything, just watch from a distance.


----------



## fogwall

hifiisexpensive said:


> You can get a dedicated stax amp that has a knob go adject imbalances, which solves the problem at the cost of spending more money :/


 
  
 Which one is that?
  


astrostar59 said:


> I am wondering if your SRD7 has a problem? If it doesn't 'amplify' and you get the same level straight from the power amp outputs then something is amiss. Maybe the SRD7 has damaged the HP drives? The SRD7 is 20+ years old, the trans may be end of live, the caps gone etc...


 
  
 Unfortunately, I have no other energizer or Stax Sigma to test with.... what a pity.


----------



## astrostar59

fogwall said:


> hifiisexpensive said:
> 
> 
> > You can get a dedicated stax amp that has a knob go adject imbalances, which solves the problem at the cost of spending more money :/
> ...


 

 I would get down to a Stax seller / dealer in your area, take your Sigma with you.


----------



## Xecuter

astrostar59 said:


> Great write up there.
> 
> My challenge to your review is simply you may have different tastes. There is the Abyss club, the Audeze, the Hifi-Man clubs. Stats are not for everyone.
> 
> ...


 

 Of course.
 I kept the Abyss because sonically it sings to the tune my brain most enjoys. I don't think it's the most resolving transducer or the most neutral/accurate. The plankton rendering king probably still goes to HD800 but the peaks make it unlistenable to my ears. Even from kilobuck rigs.
 As I said, my opinion is that the sr009 is not good at resolving what we call plankton, it has good detail/clarity but I think it is a fallacy that it digs deeper than good dynamics. IMO YMMV etc,etc.
  
 Isquirrel's system was the best I have heard from the 009, like you said though, I just might not be a stax man.
 I am taking great interest in this successor to the 009 and the T2.
  
 Also I know there is a major flaw in my amp review. Which is that I am not familiar with the MSB select II Dac + Isquirrels upgrades. I wish we had some time to hear it on his other systems, I have a feeling this DAC is very musical, engaging and organic in tuning, however I needed more time and more of my own reference gear to work out what I was enjoying most about his 009 than usual.


----------



## astrostar59

xecuter said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > Great write up there.
> ...


 

 Fair enough. I would hazard a guess that MSB 'tuned' the amp to 'correct' the 009 to their sonic ideal. TBH isn't this what we as audiophiles are trying to do by trying this bit of gear with that bit?
 It may thus have got an MSB dose of warmth and smoothness to compensate the 009s excitable nature. The amp has an option to alter the frequency curve I think, so clearly some EQ is going on ar an adaptable FPGA filter. I use a tubed NOS DAC so I may be doing the same thing in a different way. I do agree on some systems, such as hyper detailed DACs the 009 can sound too much. A bit like too much icing on the cake, it becomes sickly. But the sound I am getting from the 009 is perfect for me. Healthy doses of dynamic and deep bass, beautiful midrange and smooth detailed and FAST treble.
  
 Plankton, I like that term, and I must say I am hearing shed loads of it. If there is a tiny click in a dance track (mixing mistake), a whisper in the background (live gig), a seagull flying over a church (organ music) I can hear it right there. The panels in the 009 are so low on mass I think they have incredible speed TBH. If the Abyss has more, it must be like an electron microscope. Like you say, the HD800 is the plankton king, but is that treble emphasis and harshness, not actual extra detail? I have heard the HD800s and wasn't amazed so much.
  
 Pity you couldn't do a one on one test with the MSB amp and say the BHSE or Carbon out of the Select.


----------



## fogwall

astrostar59 said:


> I would get down to a Stax seller / dealer in your area, take your Sigma with you.


 
  
 Good idea, but unfortunately there is none available in my area.


----------



## astrostar59

fogwall said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > I would get down to a Stax seller / dealer in your area, take your Sigma with you.
> ...


 

 Can you enact a charge back through PayPal / Ebay? Not sure on the returns policy but if the item has bust this bad, you may have a chance. TYhere is a 180 day charge back window. To enable it you need to contact PayPal / Ebay and flag up a case review.
  
 Unfortunately this feels like a seller dumping sale here. It can be good to buy used but Stats are fragile things and condition can be all over the shop depending on use level and storage. I hope you can resolve it, and keep going. The current Stax 007A would be a safer buy IMO, and a decent more recent Stax amp like the 717 or 727.


----------



## fogwall

astrostar59 said:


> Can you enact a charge back through PayPal / Ebay? Not sure on the returns policy but if the item has bust this bad, you may have a chance. TYhere is a 180 day charge back window. To enable it you need to contact PayPal / Ebay and flag up a case review.
> 
> Unfortunately this feels like a seller dumping sale here. It can be good to buy used but Stats are fragile things and condition can be all over the shop depending on use level and storage. I hope you can resolve it, and keep going. The current Stax 007A would be a safer buy IMO, and a decent more recent Stax amp like the 717 or 727.


 
  
 Thanks, but I bought these a couple of years ago, and I have been very happy with them until a month ago. It looks like I will need to either pay someone to repair them or I will sell them as they are.


----------



## Redwingnine

Thanks for the feedback from the members here.  It has enhanced my background knowledge on Stax gear, and how to get the best from them.
  
 For the time being, will be doing lots of listening to the SR 007's with the SRM 007tA.  Honestly, getting the Benchmark DAC 2 DX seemed to make all my Stax headphones take a big step up in overall sonic quality.   Based on the feedback from members here, knowing my own personal preferences, decided that the SR 007 would be the closest fit to my listening profile.  At some point, would very much like to audition the SR 009's for comparison. 
  
 I will keep my eye open for auditioning the SR 007's with other amps, such as KGSS, Cavalli, etc.


----------



## rhenom

I had a STAX SRM-252S amp die on me after a month, despite buying a supposedly compatible US voltage power adapter for it.
  
 So now I need a new amp to power my STAX SR-L300 earspeakers. So far I'm eyeing the  STAX SRM-353X amp. Are there any other options I should be considering? My main criteria is that it doesn't cost more than $1000 and works on US power and won't die in a month.
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Tinkerer

Do you know why it died? Might be an easy cheap fix. Is the wall wart putting out voltage? Are the fuses intact? Is anything burnt on the internal boards? Just saying I'd check that sort of stuff before dropping cash on a new amp. If it worked for a month then that seems like it's not something you bought wrong.
  
 Otherwise, there's the usual suspects for a new STAX amp. Old school you have SRM-1 Mk II, Mk II PP, T1, T1W, 717, SRM-3 or the older 70's amps if you do a probias mod on them. Newer, you have the other versions of the 252S like the 252, then the 323/353S, 006t, 007tA, 727 II, etc. Then there's the DIY ones. SRX Plus seems a good bet for a reasonable cost project.
  
 Edit: And also the new KG Current Feedback Electrostatic Amp for budget. I think raw parts is about $100+case and hardware but GB boards will likely be a little while out.


----------



## rhenom

I don't have any equipment to check the voltage on the wall wart, although I did order a different one and no result. It didn't emit any noticeable smell when it died. I haven't cracked the unit open yet.
  
 I'm wondering if the STAX SRM-353X will work on American power out of the box or would I need to buy something to transform/regulate the voltage.


----------



## Tinkerer

Depends on where you get it and how old it is. Older amps had swappable voltages, like my old T1W is universal with a quick change of the plug in the back. Newer ones have the transformer primaries cut and are locked to their original location. A decent step down transformer if you need it will only set you back about $30 though.


----------



## JimL11

rhenom said:


> I'm wondering if the STAX SRM-353X will work on American power out of the box or would I need to buy something to transform/regulate the voltage.


 
 The SRM-353X is a new design so it probably only runs on the voltage of the country it is designed to be sold in, e.g. Japan 100V, USA/Canada 120V, most of the rest of the world 230-240V.  So a Japanese amp would need a step-up transformer to work properly in the US, a European amp (for example) would need a step down transformer.


----------



## rhenom

jiml11 said:


> The SRM-353X is a new design so it probably only runs on the voltage of the country it is designed to be sold in, e.g. Japan 100V, USA/Canada 120V, most of the rest of the world 230-240V.  So a Japanese amp would need a step-up transformer to work properly in the US, a European amp (for example) would need a step down transformer.


 
 I've been looking into it further since I made my first post, and everything you said seems to be right. I think I'm going to go with the 353X, the main hiccup is that it is sold out on the stax usa website. I don't know where else online I would get a USA Stax product, everything on ebay is japan imports.


----------



## joseph69

rhenom said:


> I've been looking into it further since I made my first post, and everything you said seems to be right. I think I'm going to go with the 353X, the main hiccup is that it is sold out on the stax usa website. I don't know where else online I would get a USA Stax product, everything on ebay is japan imports.


 
  
http://www.headamp.com/order/stax-srm-353x/


----------



## JimL11

rhenom said:


> I've been looking into it further since I made my first post, and everything you said seems to be right. I think I'm going to go with the 353X, the main hiccup is that it is sold out on the stax usa website. I don't know where else online I would get a USA Stax product, everything on ebay is japan imports.


 

 Or if you're handy with a soldering iron, you could get a vintage SRM-T1 and replace the electrolytic caps (about $50 or less in parts).  It's less dry sounding than the Stax solid state amps.


----------



## ericj

Hey guys, asking for a vendor recommendation. 
  
 I need to order a new cable for my sr-001 mk2. 
  
 Yamas can supply it, but i don't like their price. 
  
 Time was there were a number of companies in japan with affordable gray-market stax parts. 
  
 Who's good for that these days? I'm way out of the loop.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Hello everyone. It's been a while since I last posted here. I've been thoroughly enjoying my SR-009 ever since it arrived. But now I'm in need of some advice.
  
 I might temporarily be moving to a different country and can neither carry all my STAX equipment nor afford to repurchase them. As someone who has been spoiled by the ecstasy that is the audio quality of the SR-009, I need recommendations on headphones (preferably within $500-$1000) that comes closest to the SR-009's sound (absurd, I know) and can be driven satisfactorily by a JDSLabs O2+ODAC combo. I would rather not buy used/refurbished, but I might do so if it means it will get me closer to achieving SR-009-ish audio quality.
  
 If it helps, my Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250Ohm sounds horrible now that I'm accustomed to the SR-009's sound. 
  
 Please do not hesitate to ask for information if needed. And do mention if you think reposting this in another sub-forum might yield better advice.
  
 Thank you very much.


----------



## arnaud

UERM remastered?


----------



## ericj

ahnafakeef said:


> Hello everyone. It's been a while since I last posted here. I've been thoroughly enjoying my SR-009 ever since it arrived. But now I'm in need of some advice.
> 
> I might temporarily be moving to a different country and can neither carry all my STAX equipment nor afford to repurchase them. As someone who has been spoiled by the ecstasy that is the audio quality of the SR-009, I need recommendations on headphones (preferably within $500-$1000) that comes closest to the SR-009's sound (absurd, I know) and can be driven satisfactorily by a JDSLabs O2+ODAC combo. I would rather not buy used/refurbished, but I might do so if it means it will get me closer to achieving SR-009-ish audio quality.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Look at some of the less expensive orthodynamics. I believe there's a hifiman model that goes for as little as $200 factory refurbished. 

 Or, hey, some of the more expensive ones. 
  
 fwiw though i like fostex, the high-end fostex "regular phase" headphones appear to be the T50-RP Mk3 with fancier dress.


----------



## latestyle

Sorry for the annoying Stax-newb question here. Would 007 be in any way feasible for an office rig (as opposed to, say, an open can like Focal Utopia, etc.)? At first I was looking toward closed solutions like Sony Z1R, AT W3000ANV, etc., but I do prefer the open sound signature. By way of context, I share an office with 2 other dudes who are pretty mellow with whom I'm launching a start-up. I don't usually play music to ear-blistering volumes and my main fare is classical and jazz. Thanks for your input!


----------



## yates7592

I am constantly amazed at folk using headphones whilst "working". My love of music is OCD (probably more than most). However I could never work anywhere near efficiently listening to music through ear buds, headphones or speakers. Add to that an office environment where others (presumably) are also trying to concentrate then the idea of high end cans and open, is ridiculous IMO.


----------



## latestyle

yates7592 said:


> I am constantly amazed at folk using headphones whilst "working". My love of music is OCD (probably more than most). However I could never work anywhere near efficiently listening to music through ear buds, headphones or speakers. Add to that an office environment where others (presumably) are also trying to concentrate then the idea of high end cans and open, is ridiculous IMO.


 
 I appreciate your opinion, but I was only looking for input and guidance, not pedantry. Not sure what I said that merited your summary judgment that what I'm trying to do is "ridiculous." I studied music at Peabody Conservatory so I know about the OCD side of music-loving, and at home, I listen to vintage RCA LC1As and records spun from my Garrard 301. My new office is a little different than the Big Corporate stuffy office that I used to be at, as I'm launching a fintech start-up with my colleagues: a little more dynamic, a lot looser. In my Y1 of this business, I'd likely live in my office from 8 in the morning to past midnight - so I think some people might understand why a little music might be useful. Hope that clarifies.


----------



## yates7592

8 hours working without music is likely far more productive and less damaging to one's health than 16 hours (really?) working with music, but each to his own I suppose! Good luck with your search anyway.


----------



## Redwingnine

latestyle said:


> Sorry for the annoying Stax-newb question here. Would 007 be in any way feasible for an office rig (as opposed to, say, an open can like Focal Utopia, etc.)? At first I was looking toward closed solutions like Sony Z1R, AT W3000ANV, etc., but I do prefer the open sound signature. By way of context, I share an office with 2 other dudes who are pretty mellow with whom I'm launching a start-up. I don't usually play music to ear-blistering volumes and my main fare is classical and jazz. Thanks for your input!


 
 Sure, I don't see why not.  As long as you keep the volume moderate, I would think that it would be fine.  The SR 007 is an excellent choice for extended listening, as I find it quite a bit more comfortable than the Lambda style.  
  
 I'm also partial to the Stax tube amps over the SS versions.


----------



## latestyle

yates7592 said:


> 8 hours working without music is likely far more productive and less damaging to one's health than 16 hours (really?) working with music, but each to his own I suppose! Good luck with your search anyway.


 
 Thanks, yates. Yup, I'd much rather get more sleep but no rest for the weary when you're an executive for a start-up (which means you're also your own admin, plumber, etc. =).


----------



## latestyle

redwingnine said:


> Sure, I don't see why not.  As long as you keep the volume moderate, I would think that it would be fine.  The SR 007 is an excellent choice for extended listening, as I find it quite a bit more comfortable than the Lambda style.
> 
> I'm also partial to the Stax tube amps over the SS versions.


 
 Good to know, thanks, redwingnine!


----------



## JimL11

latestyle said:


> ... at home, I listen to vintage RCA LC1As and records spun from my Garrard 301.


 
 Nice!


----------



## bearFNF

latestyle said:


> Good to know, thanks, redwingnine!


 

 I'd agree that it should be fine. I also use open headphones but keep the volume low, it allows me to hear my music and still hear some of the ambient noise (phone ringing, someone coming up behind me to ask a question, etc). If I really want to focus in crucnch time I put in my CIEM's and drown everyone out.
  
 Not sure what the issue is with listening to music while working, I am a design engineer and I focus very well with light music in the background. The type of music does matter though. It's a matter of how well you can focus on your work. In my experience it's better to make a consistent back ground noise than try to deal with all the talking, walking, engines running, and grinding/banging from the fabrication area, etc. Dead silence in the office would be BORRING...and library-ish...like a study hall,,,no thanks...


----------



## latestyle

I'm with you, bearFNF. Much rather have Bill Evans' piano lines in my ears rather than office noise! Plus when I have the office to myself, having an hour break to crank up the music is just about the best luxury I can give to myself for the foreseeable future. Hell, why not.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Page (SRM-)727, here I am 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## HiFiIsExpensive

Anyone here used the SRM 007t with the Sigmas? Does it sound nice, how does it stack up to the SR007 mk1?


----------



## hpeter

I can hear my 007 in next room, medium/higher volume.
Another issue is listening during doing something (not relaxing). Time goes by quickly, and I have less joy from music; than if i was relaxing and eyes shut. Maybe it´s called listening hygiene


----------



## BigBig5

Would a T-Amp 20 watts or more be able to power SR-34's? I know T-Amps do not have high ohm.
  
Specifications
SR-30 Earspeaker
Type Electret/push-pull
Frequency Response 25-25kHz
Electrostatic Capacity 110pF
Impedance 150k Ohm
Sensitivity 95dB/100v
rmsMax Output 110dB
Weight 225g (170g w/out cord)

SRD-4 Adaptor
Continuous Max Input 5W
Momentary Max Input 30W
Frequency Response 10-30kHz (+-2.5dB)
Distortion 0.02% THD
Dimensions 90mm x 66mm x 194mm
Weight 860g


----------



## ericj

bigbig5 said:


> Would a T-Amp 20 watts or more be able to power SR-34's? I know T-Amps do not have high ohm.
> 
> Specifications
> SR-30 Earspeaker
> ...


 
  
 Absolutely. The output power required for an electrostatic transformer box is very little. I've used similar tripath amps with many transformer boxes.
  
 If i remember right the chip amp in the SRD-X is rated for something like 6 watts. It's literally a car radio chip amp. Probably why the SRD-X sounds so dry.


----------



## BigBig5

ericj said:


> Absolutely. The output power required for an electrostatic transformer box is very little. I've used similar tripath amps with many transformer boxes.
> 
> If i remember right the chip amp in the SRD-X is rated for something like 6 watts. It's literally a car radio chip amp. Probably why the SRD-X sounds so dry.


 
 What about the ohm?


----------



## ericj

bigbig5 said:


> What about the ohm?


 
  
 Most class-D amps are built with an output filter network optimized for a nominal 4 ohm impedance. 
  
 The transformers in your SRD-4 (and most stax boxes) have a primary impedance near 1 ohm and resistance that pads it closer to 8. In the SRD-4 and most of the early ones it's a PTH device in series and a resistor in parallel. 
  
 In theory the distortion will be slightly lower if you either modify the output network on the amplifier to be optimized for 8 ohms or modify the srd-4 so it's closer to a 4 ohm load, but in practice i haven't found that it matters. Because the load they put on the amplifier is so very tiny.


----------



## maximal112

Hi All
  
 Hoping someone might be able to give me a bit of advice/insight. Currently got a Stax SRM 353x amp and L500 headphones. I've been thinking about upgrading lately and would like to give the SR 007 Mk2 a try when I'm away next month as there's no dealers near me. Before I go down the route of looking more seriously though is my current amp going to be sufficient for the 007's? Long term I know it wouldn't be the best pairing and I do plan to upgrade down the track just trying to space out the cost a bit. 
  
 Thanks for any help


----------



## catscratch

maximal112 said:


> Hi All
> 
> Hoping someone might be able to give me a bit of advice/insight. Currently got a Stax SRM 353x amp and L500 headphones. I've been thinking about upgrading lately and would like to give the SR 007 Mk2 a try when I'm away next month as there's no dealers near me. Before I go down the route of looking more seriously though is my current amp going to be sufficient for the 007's? Long term I know it wouldn't be the best pairing and I do plan to upgrade down the track just trying to space out the cost a bit.
> 
> Thanks for any help




No. My 717 doesn't drive the 007 as well as it does the L700. I would imagine the 353x would be no different. Budget for a serious amp with a 007, otherwise, stick with what you have, or try the L700. You'll need a serious source too, if you don't have one already. Sadly, high-end 'stats are a whole 'nother ball game. The good news is that the L700 does well enough to make one rethink the need to upgrade. Not sure about the L500, never heard it.


----------



## HiFiIsExpensive

catscratch said:


> No. My 717 doesn't drive the 007 as well as it does the L700. I would imagine the 353x would be no different. Budget for a serious amp with a 007, otherwise, stick with what you have, or try the L700. You'll need a serious source too, if you don't have one already. Sadly, high-end 'stats are a whole 'nother ball game. The good news is that the L700 does well enough to make one rethink the need to upgrade. Not sure about the L500, never heard it.


 
  
 Agree, listening to the 007 mk 1 on the SRD x pro sounds muddy, but details are still there. The Sr-lambda 1979 sound better on the SRD x.


----------



## JimL11

maximal112 said:


> Hi All
> 
> Hoping someone might be able to give me a bit of advice/insight. Currently got a Stax SRM 353x amp and L500 headphones. I've been thinking about upgrading lately and would like to give the SR 007 Mk2 a try when I'm away next month as there's no dealers near me. Before I go down the route of looking more seriously though is my current amp going to be sufficient for the 007's? Long term I know it wouldn't be the best pairing and I do plan to upgrade down the track just trying to space out the cost a bit.
> 
> Thanks for any help


 

 Well, again it's going to vary depending on what you listen to, how loudly you listen, how sensitive you are to amp differences, etc.  For example, Kevin Gilmore stated at one point that the 323 (predecessor to the 353), was the best stock Stax amp for 007s, better than the 007T or the unmoved 727, although he thought the discontinued 717 was better.  One of my friends who is very discriminating, is driving his 007 Mk Is with a Stax T1, which has less grunt than a 353, but he doesn't listen at very high levels.  If you're sensitive to solid state nasties the 007 phones will make you more aware of them, but not everyone is.  And some people don't hear much difference between amps in general.  Without knowing you it's hard to say how much of a difference it will make for you.  But, technically, will put out 400V RMS so it will go within 1 dB of the most powerful Stax amps, within 2-3 dB of the Blue Hawaii, and within 4-5 dB of the T2, which is the most powerful (and unobtainium) stat amp around.


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## maximal112

catscratch said:


> No. My 717 doesn't drive the 007 as well as it does the L700. I would imagine the 353x would be no different. Budget for a serious amp with a 007, otherwise, stick with what you have, or try the L700. You'll need a serious source too, if you don't have one already. Sadly, high-end 'stats are a whole 'nother ball game. The good news is that the L700 does well enough to make one rethink the need to upgrade. Not sure about the L500, never heard it.


 
  
 I did have a feeling that this may be the case. Currently using a Schiit Gungnir MB. Can't say I've heard the L700 so can't really compare either unfortunately.
  


jiml11 said:


> Well, again it's going to vary depending on what you listen to, how loudly you listen, how sensitive you are to amp differences, etc.  For example, Kevin Gilmore stated at one point that the 323 (predecessor to the 353), was the best stock Stax amp for 007s, better than the 007T or the unmoved 727, although he thought the discontinued 717 was better.  One of my friends who is very discriminating, is driving his 007 Mk Is with a Stax T1, which has less grunt than a 353, but he doesn't listen at very high levels.  If you're sensitive to solid state nasties the 007 phones will make you more aware of them, but not everyone is.  And some people don't hear much difference between amps in general.  Without knowing you it's hard to say how much of a difference it will make for you.  But, technically, will put out 400V RMS so it will go within 1 dB of the most powerful Stax amps, within 2-3 dB of the Blue Hawaii, and within 4-5 dB of the T2, which is the most powerful (and unobtainium) stat amp around.


 
 I listen to a pretty big variety at the moment, a lot of which is EDM as well which has me thinking in itself am I heading down the right path with Stax but when I switch things up music wise which I find myself wanting to do more and more to just listen to something new. I still struggle to describe what I hear/terminology just know when I'm enjoying. Volume wise I don't feel I listen overly loud, only usually need to go to about 2 on the volume and that's more than enough. Or this could be loud, not sure how that compares to others
  
 Mainly just worried about what others said above that they are going to sound muddy, but as you say everyone is different so maybe best bet is to see if I can try a set with my current amp. 
  
 Blue Hawaii and KGSS HV seem to be the most common recommendations I see around, is there anything else around that would do the 007s justice? How does the KGSS mini hold up?
  
 Thanks again for any help


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## justin w.

Has anyone heard from Stax USA in the past 6 weeks? If so please contact me


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## JimL11

As a rough categorization, from best to worst, the top category would include:  DIY T2, BHSE and KGSS Carbon.  Which one is top depends on who is doing the ranking.  The majority feel the DIY T2 is tops but it is unobtanium unless you build your own.  Some rank the KGSS Carbon with the BHSE, some rank it with the T2, some prefer the BHSE to the Carbon, but it should be noted that the number of people who have expressed a comparative opinion is in the single digits.  HeadAmp builds the BHSE and there are people that are building KGSS Carbons for sale.  Also occasionally a Blue Hawaii built by a private builder comes up for sale.
  
 One step down would be the KGSSHV and KGST - there are builders of these and occasionally a used one comes up on sale), and perhaps the SRX Plus (DIY only).  The SRX Plus is the least powerful of these by a couple dB, but may be preferred if you like tubes over transistors.
  
 Next step down would be the KGSS, the Woo GES, and below that would be the various Stax amps - 727, 717, 007, 006 and T1.  The 727 is felt to not be a good match for the SR007 without a minor modification to convert it to having global feedback.  The Stax amps are actually very good circuits - for example the KGST is topologically similar to the T1/006/007 but with a more powerful output tube and constant current loads, the KGSS is said to be topologically similar to the 717 and the KGSSHV is said to be topologically similar to the 727 with global feedback.  The Stax amps are also limited by having passive power supplies whereas all the KG designs have regulated power supplies, as does the SRX Plus.  Note that all the KG designs are also DIY, and if you are willing and able to do so you can save a good deal of money.
  
 Some other amps are the Cavilli Liquid Lightning, Woo WES and Ray Samuels A10.  I'm not quite sure where these fit into my categories above, but there are reviews of these plus the BHSE on the InnerFidelity website.
  
 To give you another perspective, here is a quote from darth nut in 2003.  He wrote one of the first and most thorough reviews of the Omega II (aka SR007 Mk I), and he owns an original Stax T2 amplifier. 

 "To put the T2 in perspective, the move from a Lambda to Omega II is a bigger jump than a move from [SRM-]007t to T2.
  
 If I had to choose between (404 + T2) and (Omega II + 007t), I would choose (Omega II + 007t).
  
 This is not so much a criticism of the T2, as it is a credit to the Omega II, which gets the sound so correct in so many ways. The T2 is a refinement _along the same lines_, whereas the Omega II is different enough a creature from the Lambdas.
  
 I just don't want you to have undue expectations of the T2. You have to be aware of shrinking returns when you get so high up the price : performance curve. The T2 is truly more transparent than the 007t, but look at the price difference.
  
 There are many Omega II owners in this board, and I must say you guys are not missing something spectacularly different by not having a T2. The Omega II is still the core strength of your system. This is the plain simple truth, man."


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## zolkis

hifiisexpensive said:


> Agree, listening to the 007 mk 1 on the SRD x pro sounds muddy, but details are still there. The Sr-lambda 1979 sound better on the SRD x.


 
  
 I may be right alone with this opinion, but this is because the 007 is way too dark in stock form. You can use a BHSE or similar amp, but even then... it's matter of taste. For mine, I needed to do a lot of experimenting to make it sound more open (see the mods thread), and amp was only one aspect.
  
 The SR-Lambda is indeed more open. However, the 007 still gets music "more right". The other good sounding Lambdas (Sig, LE, L700) are still Lambdas in their character. The 009 is a tad "too open" if I may say so. When I can do with a little bit of the deepest bass away, I prefer my slightly modded (pads, damping) Gamma Pro over all these. For instance, with the latter, cello has a body that is just right, even on my modded 007 it sounds less real tonality (though sound stage is better on the 007), and that applies to other acoustic instruments as well. That being said, the Lambdas mentioned before may be better for having a single headphone, and also a stock 007 Mk2 or 007A is probably preferable, depending on your music preferences.


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## JimL11

Whoops, forgot one, the Megatron - DIY only.  It seems to be in the same category as the BHSE, Carbon and T2, runs a tad warm as it uses eight (!) EL34 output tubes which consume 80 watts in filament power alone.  Doubles as a room heater.


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## 3X0

jiml11 said:


> He wrote one of the first and most thorough reviews of the Omega II (aka SR007 Mk I), and he owns an original Stax T2 amplifier.
> "To put the T2 in perspective, the move from a Lambda to Omega II is a bigger jump than a move from [SRM-]007t to T2.
> 
> If I had to choose between (404 + T2) and (Omega II + 007t), I would choose (Omega II + 007t).
> ...


 
 I'd hypothesize the DIY-T2 to be a different beast from the SRM-T2 in light of the significantly different/superior power supply. I have had the opportunity to compare the DIY-T2 to the HeadAmp BHSE and KGSSHV Carbon and while the latter two are roughly comparable, the T2 evokes significantly stronger enjoyment for me personally.
  
 FWIW I'm speaking mainly of the SR-Omega here. The HE90 did not respond as well, though you might be interested to know that I enjoyed what I heard of it out of the SRX-Plus. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I do agree with the general idea that the transducer is the most significant component. Most of us have a preference for a specific Lambda, Omega or Sennheiser stat model and that favoritism tends to be amp-invariant (e.g. I prefer SR-Omega + 323S over 007 + anything).


justin w. said:


> Has anyone heard from Stax USA in the past 6 weeks? If so please contact me


 
 Would appreciate knowing if someone has managed to get ahold of them too. I tried to reach out to them in December regarding some obscure screws but never received a reply, even after several emails.


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## JimL11

3x0 said:


> I'd hypothesize the DIY-T2 to be a different beast from the SRM-T2 in light of the significantly different/superior power supply. I have had the opportunity to compare the DIY-T2 to the HeadAmp BHSE and KGSSHV Carbon and while the latter two are roughly comparable, the T2 evokes significantly stronger enjoyment for me personally.
> 
> FWIW I'm speaking mainly of the SR-Omega here. The HE90 did not respond as well, though you might be interested to know that I enjoyed what I heard of it out of the SRX-Plus.
> 
> ...


 
 Well, I don't want to get too much into the woods here, especially with amps I've never heard, but I would expect the DIY T2 to be a refinement of the T2 in terms of sound,  Of course on a practical basis it is significantly better at heat management, long term durability, etc.  
  
 At the Albuquerque Head-Fi meet last year I heard a very interesting demonstration of the effect of different power supplies on a micro-ZOTL, and yes, the better power supply sounded better. Now the T2 has a lot of current sources in its design which should help isolate the circuit from power supply effects, and I vaguely remember seeing an old comment from Kevin Gilmore that the T2 DIY sounded pretty much identical to the original T2 except for lack of hum, however I haven't been able to locate that comment.
  
 Thanks for your comments about the SRX Plus.  I give most of the credit to the engineers at Stax who designed to original circuit - my mods just ensure that it is working in the optimum fashion.  And of course, it formed the basis for your T2 circuit by replacing the coupling capacitors with a whole bunch of parts to allow it to be DC coupled from input to output.


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## lojay

3x0 said:


> I'd hypothesize the DIY-T2 to be a different beast from the SRM-T2 in light of the significantly different/superior power supply. I have had the opportunity to compare the DIY-T2 to the HeadAmp BHSE and KGSSHV Carbon and while the latter two are roughly comparable, the T2 evokes significantly stronger enjoyment for me personally.
> 
> FWIW I'm speaking mainly of the SR-Omega here. The HE90 did not respond as well, though you might be interested to know that I enjoyed what I heard of it out of the SRX-Plus.
> 
> ...




I have the DIYT2 and the HE90 and Omega I as well, I think I prefer the HE90 with the DIYT2. Probably a matter of preferences.

Driving the SR009, the DIYT2 does a much better job than the SRM 007t I had. I sold the 007t the day I had it and bought a KGSSHV.


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## DolphinG

I got my SRM-007t today.
 I thought that I can convert it to 220V as it has voltage selector on its back panel....
 But I found out two screws that hold metal plate are very different from ordinary screws.
 Never had this kind of problem when using SRM-313 and SRM-1 MK2 with voltage jumper on their back panel.
 Is there any way to get rid of this screws?
 Well I also wonder if these things are really screws...


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## Tinkerer

Personally, I'd just manhandle them off with a pair of vice grips and replace them with normal screws of the same size. They're M4 full thread IIRC. Check your other older amps, they should be the same. If you want to take them off the right way, one of those cheap chinese all-in-one screwdrivers with the funky bits is only about $5.
  
 But before all that, take off the top and make sure it's not rivited and also that it's not such a new model that they cut the transformer leads for alternate voltages.


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## HiFiIsExpensive

dolphing said:


> I got my SRM-007t today.
> I thought that I can convert it to 220V as it has voltage selector on its back panel....
> But I found out two screws that hold metal plate are very different from ordinary screws.
> Never had this kind of problem when using SRM-313 and SRM-1 MK2 with voltage jumper on their back panel.
> ...


 

 How much did you pay for that amp?


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## 3X0

lojay said:


> I have the DIYT2 and the HE90 and Omega I as well, I think I prefer the HE90 with the DIYT2. Probably a matter of preferences.


 
 IMHO the HE90's strength is with classical music -- a genre I don't listen to very often.
  
 What I meant to say though was that going from BHSE -> DIY-T2, I found a substantial improvement for the SR-Omega but not so much for the HE90.


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## jcn3

my srm-007t has phillips head screws.  worth noting that my version is a stock 117v version, not a 100w like yours.
  
 Quote:


dolphing said:


> I got my SRM-007t today.
> I thought that I can convert it to 220V as it has voltage selector on its back panel....
> But I found out two screws that hold metal plate are very different from ordinary screws.
> Never had this kind of problem when using SRM-313 and SRM-1 MK2 with voltage jumper on their back panel.
> ...


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## Redwingnine

hemisam said:


> There are some great deals on used KGSSHV amps these days.  I own two at the moment that I had built for me: the KGSSHV Carbon and the KGST.  The 007A's are one of my favorite pair of cans and I was surprised to experience how well they scale.  Some folks read this to mean you the poster is suggesting you have to go buy a more powerful and transparent amplifier to enjoy them.  That is not the case here, but what I would suggest is if you can have a listen to your 007A's with an aftermarket amplifier like a KGSSHV, then I strongly recommend you do.  I argue that they will indeed impress you more so than just some marginal improvement.
> 
> I do not profess to have golden ears...far from the truth as I'm middle aged and my hearing has gone with the years, but I can plainly state that I was surprised that the Carbon took my 007A's above the KGST, as an example.  They both blow away the Stax amp's I have had the pleasure to listen to a meets.  What I cannot argue is that the Carbon was worth the money for value improvement from the KGST...that is very much a personal choice.  The KGST was very good and would have been a satisfying option for the rest of my listening years...truly.  It just surprised me that the Carbon further fleshed the ability of the 007A's out and the bottom tightened up as much.  Not a different headphone, just more effectively exploited / powered.  This is all to say that your 007A's will indeed scale impressively when powered well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I took your advice, and picked up a used KGSSV amp from a reputable source for a reasonable price.  Should be here in the next few days.  I was able to sell my SRM 4040 setup for a fair price to help with the cost.  I'll be sure to post observations after I get some time to listen to the setup.


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## ToroFiestaSol

From what I've seen, Birgir is working on a SMD version of the KGSSHV Mini.
 Just guessing here. but, price could be around 1000€, is a "great amp for the masses".
  
 I really hope the MK3 version of the 007 is the same as the current one, but without bass port, so no need for mod.
  
 Imagine that, 1800€ SR-007 and 1000€ KGSSHV...2800€ for a killer setup, no mods required.


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## HemiSam

redwingnine said:


> I took your advice, and picked up a used KGSSV amp from a reputable source for a reasonable price.  Should be here in the next few days.  I was able to sell my SRM 4040 setup for a fair price to help with the cost.  I'll be sure to post observations after I get some time to listen to the setup.


 
  
 I think you'll be pleased.  Look forward to reading your impressions.
  
 HS


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## joseph69

torofiestasol said:


> I really hope the* MK3 version of the 007* is the same as the current one, but without bass port, so no need for mod.


 
 I definitely missed this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Stax is coming out with an 007MK3?
  
 I read the translation by @arnaud about Stax building another amp, but don't recall reading about a new 007. I only recall Stax possibly releasing another headphone for their 80th Anniversary in 2018.


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## ToroFiestaSol

joseph69 said:


> I definitely missed this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes sir 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/829843/stax-sr-009-and-t2-successors-confirmed-for-spring-2017/45#post_13130037
  
  
今後の新製品にもぜひご期待下さい、そうホイホイ出せませんが・・・（苦笑）
In the future, certainly please expect new products, although we don’t carelessly release … (smile)
 
また既存機種の改良・性能向上も、引き続き行っていきます。
We are also continuously improving existing models, increasing their performance.
 
過去あったマーク2、マーク3モデルという形もあるかもしれません。
Things that were previously at mk 2 stage may involve into mk 3 for instance.


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## warmtone

I own a Stax 007ii and currently listening to an ageing Lambda Pro Signature which are being replaced by a pair of 009's. I am interested in improving the 007ii at some stage to get the best from the 009's. Can someone pls provide a bit more info on the DIY options including the "T2" mentioned in this thread. Is this referring to an improved Stax design perhaps built with better components - or is it a novel design? Is there a circuit diagram available and or some images of the DIY T2?

I wonder if in fact the 007ii cannot be breathed on a bit by upgrading key components and a beefed up power supply?

I have heard the BHSE with the 009's on a high end system and can report that from my perspective the sound quality was so seductive I regard the event as musically life changing! So I understand the 009 headphones have enormous potential and deserve the very best in source and amplification - if the BHSE was not so expensive in Australia I would not hesitate to buy one it is clearly superbly built and an exceptional design.

Meanwhile I would like to explore DIY options including modifying the 007ii.
Or should I start saving $8500 for the BHSE?


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## JimL11

The DIY T2 is considered by many to be the "ultimate" but is a very complex design, uses lots of obsolete parts, and is build it yourself only.  There are circuit diagrams available on the internet as the DIY T2 was a project that was initiated by Kevin Gilmore, who also designed the Blue Hawaii.  However the T2 is a MUCH more complex design than the Blue Hawaii.  
  
 The original T2 contributed to Stax going bankrupt in the 1990s, and literally ran hot enough to fry eggs on as its four EL34 tubes were enclosed inside the amplifier case.  Original samples when they come up on ebay are offered at around $20,000, although I'm not sure they actually sell at that price level.  Nobody is crazy enough to build it commercially for sale.  Stax is supposedly working on an upgraded amplifier according to a translation of a visit to the Stax factory that Arnaud posted here a while back.
  
 The Stax SRM007 may do OK for you depending on what levels you listen at, but if you crank it up you'll start to hear its limitations - see the InnerFidelity review.  I think there is a modification that can be made to the SRM007 that will improve its drive capability but its more complicated than upgrading parts.


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## catscratch

I wouldn't consider anything they said as confirming the 007 Mk3. They simply leave open the possibility of it. In fact they did recently update it, the Mk2 went back to SZ2 serial numbers, seems to incorporate diaphragm tech from the 009 IIRC (I could be wrong on this one) and does sound different from previous SZ3-designated 007 Mk2's. It's the model some of us have taken to calling the Mk2.9, and I quite like mine, more than the early-year Mk2 I had a while back. 

Stax more or less constantly mess and tinker with their own lineup without announcing it to anybody. In the past, I wrote some nonsense and BS about electrostatics burning in after having compared a brand new 003 to a well used one, but looking back on it, it's far more likely Stax simply make tweaks to the 003 without telling anybody, and I didn't dare open them up and find out.

Also, take my serial number comments with a big grain of salt, as Stax aren't systematic about their serial numbers in any way, and they shouldn't be used to figure out the manufacture date.

But, the L700 is seriously good, doesn't need aftermarket amps, and makes me think that they need to step up their flagship game. With a ton of new phones appearing and stealing some of the spotlight, and with new resources coming in from Edifier, now's the time to step up to the plate and show everybody how it's done. Just don't raise the price too much and outdo everybody on value as well as sound. I'm betting in the long term, that's what they're going to be doing.


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## astrostar59

catscratch, agree with all of that. I too am hoping Stax bring out an 010 at affordable level. The way the rest of the high end HPs are going though, I wouldn't bank on it TBH. Stax possibly would keep the 009 and sit the new 010 above that, i.e. the price would HAVE to go up. I am curious just how far they can take the SQ already attained? Bigger bass dynamics possibly (is that even possible on an electrostatic?) no idea. I love the sound as it is already. But it should be a positive whatever happens, as keeping the tech moving forward is what everyone really wants.


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## maximal112

Got my first taste of the 007 mkII last night paired with SRM-007tII. Local shop managed to get a set in just for me to listen to. From the second I put them on everything was better than the L500's, had everything I already loved and improved on everything. and much more comfortable as well I must say. From what everyone says here that they sound even better out of a better amp I hope I get to the chance someday. Was close to pulling the trigger already, just waiting to hear few other HP's in a few weeks when I'm out of town.


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## astrostar59

maximal112 said:


> Got my first taste of the 007 mkII last night paired with SRM-007tII. Local shop managed to get a set in just for me to listen to. From the second I put them on everything was better than the L500's, had everything I already loved and improved on everything. and much more comfortable as well I must say. From what everyone says here that they sound even better out of a better amp I hope I get to the chance someday. Was close to pulling the trigger already, just waiting to hear few other HP's in a few weeks when I'm out of town.


 

 I would say buy the 007 MK2 (it is new right?) The current 007 lis great. Next DON"T buy the horrid Stax amp. Sorry, it will not do those HPs justice. Save the 1.7K USD for a used KGSShv. Job done. You WILL be happy, trust me. The 007s scale really well, and you won't get any real taste of it with that Stax amp IMO.
  
 PM me if you want more info (from my perspective) Good luck!


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## arnaud

From short conversation with stax hq yesterday, they're still aiming for a commercial release of a new amp by the summer with a probable unveiling at spring fujiya festival.

Sasaki-san said it would sit above the 007t2 which I would assume means it will be a tube / hybrid design. When asked how different from current amps, it seemed clear it won't quite be T2 level so my bet is on something akin to the kgst with similar retail price to the 009.

Not sure we can expect anything for the 80th anniversary so this business as usual at stax .

Arnaud


----------



## JimL11

arnaud said:


> From short conversation with stax hq yesterday, they're still aiming for a commercial release of a new amp by the summer with a probable unveiling at spring fujiya festival.
> 
> Sasaki-san said it would sit above the 007t2 which I would assume means it will be a tube / hybrid design. When asked how different from current amps, it seemed clear it won't quite be T2 level so my bet is on something akin to the kgst with similar retail price to the 009.


 
 That's a logical progression.  The tube/hybrid amps all have plate resistor outputs, and the best bang for the buck improvement would be to use constant current sources in place of the plate resistors, which would significantly improve the efficiency of delivering the signal current to the phones.  The solid state amps already have constant current sources, so it wouldn't be a big jump to transfer that technology to the tube/hybrid models.  I would guess that they would stick with the 6CG7/6FQ7 tubes though, and likely a passive power supply.  The front end of the SRM=T1 uses a simple zener regulated supply but the 007 uses 7815 and 7915 IC regs for its front end.


----------



## astrostar59

*EQing the 009s*
  
 DMG Audio EQ (EQuick) plugin for Mac and Windows.
  
 For those already successfully using EQ ignore this post.
  
 I have had the 009s for 2 years and in that time I have also had 2 different DACs and 2 different electrostatic amps (KGSShv and Carbon).
  
 Cut to the chase, I started using the Carbon with the 009s and my Audio Note DAC 5 from September 2016. Compared to the KGSShv it is faster, wider, more 'alive' and has oodles of depth and detail. The bass is a bit less in quantity maybe than the KGSShv (Sanyo off-board) but is tight and textured, so no big deal. The Sanyo KGSShv is the warmest of those amps I am informed, The treble in the Carbon is more pronounced which helps create a wider soundstage and give more clues in the music.
  
 But with extra speed and transparency comes a price, as with everything that is good (in many cases). The 009 sounds a tad bright. It is not a problem, I am talking subtle, the last bit of system tuning, and it is dependent on the effect of the source.  It also sounds a bit bright on the BHSE (maybe brighter) IMO.
  
 So, after 3 months of tube rolling my DAC I set about looking at the DMG EQ settings again. I bought this plugin last year and had used it to tweak the signature of my previous amp and also wake up the 007 a bit (detail). There are quite a few EQ versions from DMG. I tried most of them on a free trail basis, and settled on the best one IMO as the EQuick. Oddly it is not the most expensive one, indeed is a stripped down version of their top EQ plugin. Maybe it sounded better as it has less effects and features built into it?
  
 On my speaker setup (same DAC) I run it straight, no EQ required. The sound is perfect for my taste and is realistic and smooth, detail but not hifi sounding or over the top.
  
 Using my perceived 'perfect sound' on the big speakers, straight through to the Carbon and 009s the signature jumps up and has more energy in the mid treble and a colder slightly thinner sound overall.
  
 To tackle this I have set a small treble dip around the 4-7 kHz region going back to almost no reduction up to 20kHz. A standard hi-shelf drop was compared to a dip and it didn't sound right, too much loss in transparency. This got me thinking, the HD800 had an annoying (to some) brightness spot around 6kHz that could give female vocals and guitars an unnatural edge and can be fatiguing. It does appear in my system the 009 has a slight lift around the same region. Or it could be my DAC, though I noticed it was also present in the AMR DP-777 and my other DAC before that as well. 
  
 However, I don't hear any issues further up the scale, into the 8kHz to 20kHz range. So that is sorted.
  
 Next the bass. It is super tempting to go large hear, I am a bit of a bass lover. However, even though the 009 can handle more bass quantity, it can lead to muddying the image and reducing the depth and width. Also when the music gets really busy that effect is more apparent. So, as Velodyne say in the manuals, set the bass to blend seamlessly, sounding natural to the rest of the music.
  

  

  
 The 2 pics show the same response curves but I have rolled over each to display the setting. The setting I finalised where quite minor in amount, treble dip around 6kHz of -1.1dB, and bass lift of +1.3dB around 100hz. Doesn't look like much adjustment, but the effect on the sound is obvious. Any coldness in the treble region is gone, dead smooth and more organic. The bass also kicks harder and sounds just as tight and fast as set to no boost, i.e. no audible negatives whatsoever to my hearing.
  
 I would say the built in AU Equalisers on a Mac are pretty poor and ruin the sound. Quite possibly the AU filters are using Apple core audio then Audirvana+ is using that modified file after. I am not sure, but the track load takes a tad longer when enabling the DMG filter so the processing is done in RAM first then fed in real time to the DAC.
  
 The other cool thing you can do in this plugin is monitor the digital output level. Any bass boost will inevitably push most modern recordings above 0dB and hideous clipping will occur. This can be totally avoided by reducing the output level a bit and watching the peaks don't hit 0db. Once set this will apply to all recording i.e. no clipping unless the studio recorded it like that in the first place (Metallica 'Death Metallic' for example)
  
 Job done. A superb smooth, fast and detailed setup with zero digital edge or fatigue. Well happy. TBH I believe the difference in many DACs once you get to a decent level is minor. And maybe the search for a DAC that sits better in a certain system can be tweaked just by using a bit of EQ. Cheap and worth a try IMO.
  
 My last thought on this, would we expect a normal speaker to have one voice coil for full range? Almost none are made that work. The ones that look like a single cone invariably have 2 cones on the same mount. Thus we are technically expecting a headphone with s single cone driver / panel to produce a ruler flat response from 20 hz right up to 20 kHz, it is difficult to imagine ANY headphone could do that. But it can (with a bit of help) IMO.
  
 Hope this helps someone.


----------



## Jones Bob

Doesn't all the DSP EQ processing mess with the NOS rational of your Audio Note DAC?


----------



## astrostar59

jones bob said:


> Doesn't all the DSP EQ processing mess with the NOS rational of your Audio Note DAC?


 

 I don' think it does. I don't upsample, just send it through as Redbook 44.1.


----------



## JimL11

I've corrected my previous note above.  Although the high voltage PS in all the current Stax amps is unregulated, the front end of my SRM-T1 uses a simple zener regulated supply, but the front end of the SR-007 uses 7815 and 7915 IC regulators, which is a step up from the T1.  Sorry for the error.


----------



## ye.

Is there somewhere a better readable version of the schematics of the SRM T1 (or SRM 006t II) than the one posted here:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/223263/the-stax-thread-new/22365#post_9454415
http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/stax_srm-t1.jpg
  
 I have e.g. trouble reading the transistor types.


----------



## zolkis

> I have e.g. trouble reading the transistor types.
  
 Which ones are you interested in? I can check it for you. I have an SRM-T1 Normal/Pro here that I got modded on the PSU and a handful of parts, but not the transistors.


----------



## ye.

> Which ones are you interested in? I can check it for you. I have an SRM-T1 Normal/Pro here that I got modded on the PSU and a handful of parts, but not the transistors.


 
 Thanks. The type of Q1 (the JFETs at the input) would be fine for the moment.
  
 Nevertheless a readable schematics would be fine, as I try to find an error (distortion at high levels in one channel) and it would help not having to ask for every component in doubt.


----------



## funkforfood

Hi,
 I own an old SRM-3 amplifier that need to be repaired, but i'm unable to find the schematics.
 Could someone help me?
 Thanks!


----------



## Jones Bob

funkforfood said:


> Hi,
> I own an old SRM-3 amplifier that need to be repaired, but i'm unable to find the schematics.
> Could someone help me?
> Thanks!




Google is your friend. 
https://www.google.com/search?q=stax+srm-3+schematic&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari


----------



## funkforfood

I did this search many times, but does not return to me the schematic that I am looking for ...


----------



## Hardertaskthinking

Dear all,
  
 Can someone point me to an after-market headphone hard case which the SR009 can fit into?  I still have the original wooden case but it looks too delicate to be used on a day-to-day basis.
  
 Thank you


----------



## Jones Bob

funkforfood said:


> I did this search many times, but does not return to me the schematic that I am looking for ...




Seems like the SRM-3 is a rather rare STAX amp. Over on That Other Site, user DefCon seems to have experience working on them. You might try to PM him there.


----------



## loligagger

hardertaskthinking said:


> Dear all,
> 
> Can someone point me to an after-market headphone hard case which the SR009 can fit into?  I still have the original wooden case but it looks too delicate to be used on a day-to-day basis.
> 
> Thank you


 
  
 A pelican style case with pick & pluck foam should do the job.


----------



## yates7592

Agree, I keep my 009's in a Peli case 24/7.


----------



## soren_brix

ye. said:


> Thanks. The type of Q1 (the JFETs at the input) would be fine for the moment.
> 
> Nevertheless a readable schematics would be fine, as I try to find an error (distortion at high levels in one channel) and it would help not having to ask for every component in doubt.


 
 probably 2sk389GR
  
 have you checked the rails and are the LEDs at top/bottom of the 2.stage lit?


----------



## ye.

soren_brix said:


> have you checked the rails and are the LEDs at top/bottom of the 2.stage lit?


 
 Yes.
  
 Below about 80% of the full volume the channel sounds fine. I hear suddenly a distortion, in a sine signal, when it gets above that. The other channel is fine. Swapping headphone, inputs or tubes does not change that.
 The only difference  in measurements (in circuit) between the channels, I found up to now, is a different Id/Vgs behavior of Q1 ... so I wanted to look up the specs.


----------



## soren_brix

ye. said:


> Yes.
> 
> Below about 80% of the full volume the channel sounds fine. I hear suddenly a distortion, in a sine signal, when it gets above that. The other channel is fine. Swapping headphone, inputs or tubes does not change that.
> The only difference  in measurements (in circuit) between the channels, I found up to now, is a different Id/Vgs behavior of Q1 ... so I wanted to look up the specs.


 
 whats the DC on the anodes?


----------



## ye.

soren_brix said:


> whats the DC on the anodes?


 
  
 around 2-3V while idling (on both channels).


----------



## soren_brix

ye. said:


> around 2-3V while idling (on both channels).


 
 Have you maxed out the volume control and controlled the volume from the source rather? what levels are the source at?


----------



## ye.

soren_brix said:


> Have you maxed out the volume control and controlled the volume from the source rather? what levels are the source at?


 

 I tried both versions to exlude a problem with the poti. No difference observed.
 The max source level was 1,4V RMS (a Soekris DAC at the raw outputs).
 I also had the feeling that the heared volume was lower compared with my SRM-1 Mk2
  


soren_brix said:


> probably 2sk389GR


 
 Thats a dual jfet in on case. Mine (in a SRM 006t A) look like two TO-92 thermicaly cuppeld with some shrink tube.


----------



## soren_brix

ye. said:


> I tried both versions to exlude a problem with the poti. No difference observed.
> The max source level was 1,4V RMS (a Soekris DAC at the raw outputs).
> I also had the feeling that the heared volume was lower compared with my SRM-1 Mk2
> 
> Thats a dual jfet in on case. Mine (in a SRM 006t A) look like two TO-92 thermicaly cuppeld with some shrink tube.


 
 1.4V RMS will overdrive the input ...from memory 300mV should maxout the amp
  
 2sk389 is dual 2sk170 ... you can use lsk170 from Linear - you need to match Idss though ...checkout DIYAudio store


----------



## ye.

soren_brix said:


> 1.4V RMS will overdrive the input ...from memory 300mV should maxout the amp


 
 1.4V RMS at the line input. I doubt that this will overdrive, CD players have 2V RMS. My SRM1-MK2, my power amps nor my (vintage) peramp showed any problems.
  
 At least up to 1V RMS the output raises correspondingly to the input on my scope. So the limit is definitely above 300mV. For higher values I need to get an other probe or attenuate the output signal due to limitations of the input voltage of the scope.


----------



## soren_brix

ye. said:


> 1.4V RMS at the line input. I doubt that this will overdrive, CD players have 2V RMS. My SRM1-MK2, my power amps nor my (vintage) peramp showed any problems.
> 
> At least up to 1V RMS the output raises correspondingly to the input on my scope. So the limit is definitely above 300mV. For higher values I need to get an other probe or attenuate the output signal due to limitations of the input voltage of the scope.


 
 Whats the limits of the probes, 300V?


----------



## ye.

soren_brix said:


> Whats the limits of the probes, 300V?


 

 They are 10x probes, the scope has max 5V/div, and 8 "divs". So I am at about 400V(pp).


----------



## soren_brix

ye. said:


> 1.4V RMS at the line input. I doubt that this will overdrive, CD players have 2V RMS. My SRM1-MK2, my power amps nor my (vintage) peramp showed any problems.
> 
> At least up to 1V RMS the output raises correspondingly to the input on my scope. So the limit is definitely above 300mV. For higher values I need to get an other probe or attenuate the output signal due to limitations of the input voltage of the scope.


 
  have you checked the caps in the feedback loop? it is an old amp ...


----------



## ye.

soren_brix said:


> have you checked the caps in the feedback loop? it is an old amp ...


 

 You refer to C5-8 parallel to R21-26 in the SRM T1 schematics?
 The SRM 006tA does not have these, only the resistors ... that seems to be one difference in the layout, the only one I discovered up to now, appart of those due to the ballanced input.


----------



## soren_brix

ye. said:


> You refer to C5-8 parallel to R21-26 in the SRM T1 schematics?


 
 yep


----------



## Hardertaskthinking

yates7592 said:


> Agree, I keep my 009's in a Peli case 24/7.


 
  
 Hi yates7592,
  
 Can you tell me the model of your Pelican case?
  
 Thank you


----------



## ye.

soren_brix said:


> ...from memory 300mV should maxout the amp


 
 You are correct after all: http://www.stax.co.jp/Export/SRM006tS.html

 So I have a gain problem on both channels, not a distortion problem on one. Thus I have to reconsider a lot of things that I excluded because they would affect both channels.
 Thanks.


----------



## soren_brix

ye. said:


> So I have a gain problem on both channels, not a distortion problem on one.


 
 did you check the caps?


----------



## yates7592

hardertaskthinking said:


> Hi yates7592,
> 
> Can you tell me the model of your Pelican case?
> 
> Thank you


 

 Sorry, its a "peli-like" case but not pukka Peli. I bought it on ebay a long time ago and don't have a reference to it now. If you check the Peli chart it should be easy to work out the size you need.


----------



## joseph69

hardertaskthinking said:


> Dear all,
> Can someone point me to an after-market headphone hard case which the SR009 can fit into?  I still have the original wooden case but it looks too delicate to be used on a day-to-day basis.
> 
> Thank you


 
 Look into the Pelican *1400* case.
 I believe this will suit your needs.


----------



## paradoxper

Thought it was an interesting progression. post #13


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> hardertaskthinking said:
> 
> 
> > Dear all,
> ...


 

 Take care, the wooden box is breathable for a reason. My 007s got some mold on the leather cups after storing in their box (Stax aluminium slewed flight case). Look for an impact plastic and foam filled case and ensure it has a breather hole, and leave that open. They usually have a breather hole facility as it is difficult to open otherwise because of the air seal of the box i.e the lid gets stuck. And you can for extra security, put a silica gell bag inside the case somewhere. Keep the box in a heated room in your house (not the garage or loft).


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> Take care, the wooden box is breathable for a reason. My 007s got some mold on the leather cups after storing in their box (Stax aluminium slewed flight case). Look for an impact plastic and foam filled case and ensure it has a breather hole, and leave that open. They usually have a breather hole facility as it is difficult to open otherwise because of the air seal of the box i.e the lid gets stuck. And you can for extra security, put a silica gell bag inside the case somewhere. Keep the box in a heated room in your house (not the garage or loft).


 
"_The _*Pelican 1400 Case with Foam*_ (Black) is an unbreakable, watertight, airtight, dust proof, chemical-resistant and corrosion-proof hard case used to carry any kind of equipment that needs to be protected from the elements. It is made of Ultra-High Impact structural copolymer that makes it extremely strong and durable. It has a 0.25" (6.4mm) neoprene o-ring, and easy-open double throw latches that seal perfectly. It includes an automatic pressure equalization valve for quick equalization after changes in atmospheric pressure. It is carried by a folding molded handle."_
  
"This case has a 3-piece foam interior."
 
I don't use one myself, but I figured since it's water/air tight dust proof and chemical resistant/corrosion proof and has an automatic pressure equalization valve it would prevent mold/mildew and this would be ideal for what he is looking for. Sounds like a really well made case.


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> I don't use one myself, but I figured since it's water/air tight dust proof and chemical resistant/corrosion proof and has an automatic pressure equalization valve it would prevent mold/mildew and this would be ideal for what he is looking for. Sounds like a really well made case.


 
 I used the Stax case for the 007s and it seals pretty good. Tbus I am using the moisture in the leather cups and padding had adsorbed some moisture from use, then grey the mild after being put in they case. It isn't a case of moisture getting in, more a case of it getting out. The Stax 009 brochure that came with the phones says as much, hence the carefully chosen wood and they way it is made.


----------



## Redwingnine

hemisam said:


> I think you'll be pleased.  Look forward to reading your impressions.
> 
> HS


 
 Well, My initial impression is "wow-what a difference" 
  
 The 007's sound like a completely different headphone with the KGSSHV amp.  Much more dynamic, wider/deeper sound-stage.  Bass is much more authoritative, and treble is more pronounced.  Vocals sound life like, as do piano and horns/woodwinds (which I find are among the most difficult to sound accurately),  I played a symphony that I'm pretty familiar with, and it sounded almost like one was in the hall.  I've never heard any system that could get this close to simulating a musical event.  I can't even begin to imagine just how much it would cost to get a regular two channel playback to get to this level of performance.  
  
 Based on members feedback, I would think the KGSSHV and SR-009 could be a little too bright for my taste.  The SR-007 seems to be an ideal match with the KGSSHV amp.


----------



## astrostar59

redwingnine said:


> hemisam said:
> 
> 
> > I think you'll be pleased.  Look forward to reading your impressions.
> ...


 

 It depends on the KGSShv. Some are brighter than others (a lot). I had 2 x KGSShv's both with Sanyo FETs and it was a warm amp, very solid bass and great dynamics. It woke up my 007s for sure! I also liked the 009s on it as well, no brightness issues. The 009 can be tricky I admit, and some DACs will only highlight it's excitable treble energy, But get it right, wow.....


----------



## billqs

I have a number of STAX Headphones, amps. transformer box etc, that I need to sale/trade maximize to the best sound possible. I picked up an old Lambda NB and SRD-7-SB and couldn't believe how much better it sounded than my dynamic phones and even clearer than my couple of pair of magna planars. So, I went on a bit of a STAX buying spree and I'm trying to decide how to navigate to a STAX endgame.
  
 Here's what I have:
  
 Amps Transformer Box etc.
 SRD-7-SB modded to include a pro output
 SRM-1 Mk2 Professional with one normal bias and one pro bias slot
 KGSS DX Edition originally built by Headamp.
  
 EarSpeakers/Phones:
 Lambda NB
 Lambda Signature Pro bias
 Lambda SR 404 Signature Edition (not the Limited Edition, danggit)
 Lambda SR L-700
 SR-007 Mk2
  
 I guess my question is where I go from here. I was evaluating everything and I now have a bunch of options that are hard to compare. For example, I was certain that I preferred the L-700 to the 007 mk2 when listening on the SRM-1 Mmk2 Pro, only to have the 007's come to life when hooked up to the KGSS DX. The 007s were too muddy sounding with the SRM-1 but the SRM-1's warmer sound nicely works with the Lambda's natural bright sound. I am using an Emotiva A100 hooked up to the SRD-7 and it brightens up the 007s also, but they sound more detailed and controlled on the KGSS.
  
 Originally, I thought about exchanging up to the 009's, but I know there is a minority of opinion that seems to think the 009 is too bright. I may still want to go that way. If I do, will the KGSS DX be enough for the 009 or will it necessitate another amp upgrade to a KGSSHV, or Carbon or BHSE? 
  
 What would you suggest as a good next step?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Pokemonn

maybe KGSShv Carbon + 007 can be end game. maybe.
 you may care also DACs jitter issue, i recently purchase ifi ipurifier SPDIF, and it wake up my 007 really, 007 sound no dullness/sleepness anymore at all. i got blown away really. lol


----------



## Redwingnine

I also think a KGSSHV Carbon and SR-007 is a excellent combo.  Regarding DAC's, my choice would be the Benchmard DAC3.  I've got a Benchmarrk DAC2 DX, and it's outstanding.  The Benchmark technology is as good as it gets.


----------



## paradoxper

Get a Yggdrasil now. Call it a day. Grab a Carbon later if you do feel so inclined.


----------



## billqs

Thanks for the feedback so far! There is nothing lacking in the KGSS that I can hear, it's more a matter of what a Carbon could add to the sound. The SRM1 mk2 Pro is great for Lambda's but produces industrial grade mud when the 007's are hooked in. I know ultimately only I can decide if a 009 is worth it as an upgrade, but are a lot members satisfied with th 007? I'd love to find a good deal on a KgssHV Carbon. What is the main advantage of the KGSSHV and the Carbon relative to the KGSS DX?

Thanks for the DAC suggestions I recently picked up the Chord Mojo and immediately noticed an improvement in quality next to the DIY Wolfson and SABRE 9018 Dacs I was using before. Frequency response wasn't much diffferent but I noticed more nuanced detail in vocals and instruments and bettter control of the sound.


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> Get a Yggdrasil now. Call it a day. Grab a Carbon later if you do feel so inclined.


 

 Am guessing the T2 not landed yet. What amp are you using now?


----------



## billqs

I'm using the KGSS DX.


----------



## paradoxper

astrostar59 said:


> Am guessing the T2 not landed yet. What amp are you using now?


 
 Still being polished/anodized. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'd been using the Carbon. SRX seems a logical choice if this wait continues to break me.


----------



## JimL11

paradoxper said:


> Still being polished/anodized.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hope it is finished in time for you to bring it to the Albuquerque meet in April.  I plan to bring my SRX Plus, among other things.


----------



## seaice

paradoxper said:


> Get a Yggdrasil now. Call it a day. Grab a Carbon later if you do feel so inclined.


 

 It is not the first time I see this recommendation for Staxes. I own 009 and Mjolnir Carbon and I must say that I prefer other DACs more with this combo: Audio-GD Master 7 (with the latest V7 software update) and Audio Note 4.1 (modified).
  
 It can be my personal preference only but the treble nature of 009 with the Yggy+Carbon combo is sometimes not to my likings... So choose your DAC wisely  Just my 2 preferential cents. I have never heard the legendary 007.


----------



## paradoxper

jiml11 said:


> Hope it is finished in time for you to bring it to the Albuquerque meet in April.  I plan to bring my SRX Plus, among other things.


 
 It will be. Riiiiiight.


----------



## JimL11

paradoxper said:


> It will be. Riiiiiight.


 
 Hey, even if it isn't, you're still welcome, if you don't mind slumming with us lowly plebs.


----------



## paradoxper

jiml11 said:


> Hey, even if it isn't, you're still welcome, if you don't mind slumming with us lowly plebs.


 
 It will be. Else I will be forced to go with the lowly BHSE. OR even that lowly-er SRX. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Work is my only constraint for this meet and well, life.


----------



## Redwingnine

seaice said:


> It is not the first time I see this recommendation for Staxes. I own 009 and Mjolnir Carbon and I must say that I prefer other DACs more with this combo: Audio-GD Master 7 (with the latest V7 software update) and Audio Note 4.1 (modified).
> 
> It can be my personal preference only but the treble nature of 009 with the Yggy+Carbon combo is sometimes not to my likings... So choose your DAC wisely  Just my 2 preferential cents. I have never heard the legendary 007.


 
 I think system matching is very important at this level.  Based strictly on technical performance, (refer to Stereophile reviews ) the Benchmark DAC2/3 would be a top choice for a high end Stax setup. (better than the Yggy).  I have a Benchmark DAC2 DX, and that is an outstanding DAC with the SR-007 and KGSSHV.  Would think the DAC3 would be even better.  
  
 That being said, one's personal preference with regard to tonal balance is what should drive one's final decision.


----------



## MacedonianHero

redwingnine said:


> I think system matching is very important at this level.  Based strictly on technical performance, (refer to Stereophile reviews ) the Benchmark DAC2/3 would be a top choice for a high end Stax setup. (better than the Yggy).  I have a Benchmark DAC2 DX, and that is an outstanding DAC with the SR-007 and KGSSHV.  Would think the DAC3 would be even better.
> 
> That being said, one's personal preference with regard to tonal balance is what should drive one's final decision.


 
  
 Well last night I put the Benchmark DAC3 HGC into my rig as I'm currently auditioning it for a review and it really, really impressed me! From CDs to Tidal, to Tidal Master to DSD, it just got better and better! Both my SR-009 and SR-007Mk1 sounded so revealing and clear without a hint of digititus. One very resolving DAC; with an outstandingly high level of transparency!


----------



## Pokemonn

macedonianhero said:


> redwingnine said:
> 
> 
> > I think system matching is very important at this level.  Based strictly on technical performance, (refer to Stereophile reviews ) the Benchmark DAC2/3 would be a top choice for a high end Stax setup. (better than the Yggy).  I have a Benchmark DAC2 DX, and that is an outstanding DAC with the SR-007 and KGSSHV.  Would think the DAC3 would be even better.
> ...


 

 would you compare it to your Hugo TT???


----------



## ye.

ye. said:


> soren_brix said:
> 
> 
> > ...from memory 300mV should maxout the amp
> ...


 
 The SRM 006t II  (resp 006tA) seems to have lower gain, so that you need 600mV for maxing it out:
http://www.stax.co.jp/Export/SRS4040II.html
 This could be correct as the resistors R5-6 in the feedback loop are 330R instead of 150R as in the SRM-T1 schematics.
  
 But even so my gain seems to be a bit low. With 300mV rms in, I get 130V rms out (differential between  the  + and the - out). The specs would suggest 150V.
 Can that be considered still as OK?
  
 Can anybody tell me what voltage I should expect at the grid of the tubes?
 In the above example I get 3.8V rms grid to ground, is that OK?
  
 Edit:
 at 670mV rms in, I reach 290V rms out. Above that it starts to clip (visually, on the scope).
 That I do not reach the 300V is probably due to that the supply voltage is a lower than specified (-320V, 305V).


----------



## MacedonianHero

pokemonn said:


> would you compare it to your Hugo TT???


 
  
 I'll compare it to as many DACs that I have a thorough experience with.


----------



## JimL11

ye. said:


> The SRM 006t II  (resp 006tA) seems to have lower gain, so that you need 600mV for maxing it out:
> http://www.stax.co.jp/Export/SRS4040II.html
> This could be correct as the resistors R5-6 in the feedback loop are 330R instead of 150R as in the SRM-T1 schematics.
> 
> ...


 
 Probably fine.  Assuming the feedback resistors are 51k x 3 and 330, the nominal amplification would be around 465X, which would give 139 V rms.  If the resistors are 5% tolerance, that's probably within the tolerance of the feedback chain.  In any case, as long as you have enough signal level to drive the amp to clipping, it doesn't matter what volume level you need.  If you think about it, the higher the volume setting to achieve a satisfactory level, the less signal you are burning up/wasting/throwing away in the volume control.


----------



## spaceace1014

I've modified the SRM-T1 to use ECC99 tubes in the past. Does anyone know if the process is the same for the 006ts?


----------



## JimL11

spaceace1014 said:


> I've modified the SRM-T1 to use ECC99 tubes in the past. Does anyone know if the process is the same for the 006ts?


 

 Shouild be identical. The T1 and 006T are the same circuit, and the SRM-600 is just an 006T with ECC99 outputs and 60k plate resistors, so the conversion just involves changing the plate resistor tubes and the filament wiring.  Gets you about 20% more standing power and the ECC99 has higher voltage ratings so more of a margin there.


----------



## astrostar59

seaice said:


> paradoxper said:
> 
> 
> > Get a Yggdrasil now. Call it a day. Grab a Carbon later if you do feel so inclined.
> ...


 
  
 The Carbon is a revealing amp, and once you get a super revealing HP like the 009s great care needs to be taken with the DAC. Plus another point is the source feeding the DAC affects things. And as many have found, DACs do sound different. This hobby....  IMO It is the DAC and all the other aspects as well that can add up to a great pairing or not. System synergy is what it is, magic is out there for a good match.


----------



## dubharmonic

The more time I spend trying out high end dynamic and planar magnetic headphones, the more appreciative I've become of Stax. They may not look the sharpest, but they have it where it counts. Just had to share that with someone else who could relate


----------



## TraneTime

dubharmonic said:


> The more time I spend trying out high end dynamic and planar magnetic headphones, the more appreciative I've become of Stax. They may not look the sharpest, but they have it where it counts. Just had to share that with someone else who could relate


 
 I relate!


----------



## astrostar59

tranetime said:


> dubharmonic said:
> 
> 
> > The more time I spend trying out high end dynamic and planar magnetic headphones, the more appreciative I've become of Stax. They may not look the sharpest, but they have it where it counts. Just had to share that with someone else who could relate
> ...


 
 Nice. But IMO the rest are catching up. And the Stax 'sound' is not for everyone of course. The 009 is polarising, the 007 more forgiving.
  
 Mind there are fans of the Abyss who don't like the Utopia and the reverse as well.
  
 I am off to CanJam this year so will hear how it is with the other contenders like the Utopia and Abyss. Can't wait to hear how far the HE-1 has got in the outer orbit of what's possible.


----------



## paradoxper

Very contradicting to say when you haven't heard the Abyss, Utopia, HE-1, as well I'd surmise HE1000 whatever version nor MrSpeakers whichever FOTM, Julian. Just a little curious is all.


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> Very contradicting to say when you haven't heard the Abyss, Utopia, HE-1, as well I'd surmise HE1000 whatever version nor MrSpeakers whichever FOTM, Julian. Just a little curious is all.


 

 I have heard the LCD-4 which I did like quite a bit, didn't like the HD800. I am trusting the posts by folk I trust to flag up my theory here. A mass of opinion seems to be heading that way, including Tyll who more recently seems to have fallen out of love with the 009 (tizzy treble I think he called it). My mind is open to new contenders, but proof in in the demo's. Even at shows it is difficult. I have my trusty USB stick with me so will use well known tracks for the demo's.
  
 IMO Electrostatics do have a unique kind of take / sound / whatever you want to call it. I love it personally, but as I said, it may not be for everyone.


----------



## paradoxper

astrostar59 said:


> I have heard the LCD-4 which I did like quite a bit, didn't like the HD800. I am trusting the posts by folk I trust to flag up my theory here. A mass of opinion seems to be heading that way, including Tyll who more recently seems to have fallen out of love with the 009 (tizzy treble I think he called it). My mind is open to new contenders, but proof in in the demo's. Even at shows it is difficult. I have my trusty USB stick with me so will use well known tracks for the demo's.
> 
> IMO Electrostatics do have a unique kind of take / sound / whatever you want to call it. I love it personally, but as I said, it may not be for everyone.


 
 Right. So a very baseless comment you inferred from other people's experience.


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > I have heard the LCD-4 which I did like quite a bit, didn't like the HD800. I am trusting the posts by folk I trust to flag up my theory here. A mass of opinion seems to be heading that way, including Tyll who more recently seems to have fallen out of love with the 009 (tizzy treble I think he called it). My mind is open to new contenders, but proof in in the demo's. Even at shows it is difficult. I have my trusty USB stick with me so will use well known tracks for the demo's.
> ...


 

 No, as I said IMO it seems the others are catching up. My opinion is based on the huge influx of top HPs that are non Electrostatics. The market has exploded somewhat. IMO the LCD-4 is close to my 007, maybe better in some aspects. It is a serious challenge having Focus making a new HP, I rate their speakers highly. I will report back my findings to confirm my theory or not.


----------



## paradoxper

astrostar59 said:


> No, as I said IMO it seems the others are catching up. My opinion is based on the huge influx of top HPs that are non Electrostatics. The market has exploded somewhat. IMO the LCD-4 is close to my 007, maybe better in some aspects. It is a serious challenge having Focus making a new HP, I rate their speakers highly. I will report back my findings to confirm my theory or not.


 
 The huge influx that you haven't heard. I get it. Listen to your hearts content. But do listen.


----------



## TraneTime

astrostar59 said:


> Nice. But IMO the rest are catching up. And the Stax 'sound' is not for everyone of course. The 009 is polarising, the 007 more forgiving.
> 
> Mind there are fans of the Abyss who don't like the Utopia and the reverse as well.
> 
> I am off to CanJam this year so will hear how it is with the other contenders like the Utopia and Abyss. Can't wait to hear how far the HE-1 has got in the outer orbit of what's possible.


 
 I know.  I've heard the 009 using a BHSE and wasn't all that impressed but I also heard it using the amp that Frank Cooter made for Jude and it sounded fantastic.  One of the best I've ever heard. I've never heard the 007 on a good amp.  I don't think my Stax 006ts is up to the task of powering it but it does a great job with my L700.    I also heard the Utopia in San Francisco last year.   
  
  
  That's me in the green shirt listening to it on a Woo amp.  It was a little underwhelming.


----------



## astrostar59

Interesting. I have chatted to Frank Cooter about Audio Note Kit DACs in the past.
  
 Was it this amp? Looks like 6SN7s? but don't know the other big tubes. Nice looking amp indeed! Wonder how much Frank charged for it?
  

  

  
 IMO the BHSE can sound at it's best on NOS Mullards, not sure if that was the case when you heard it.


----------



## TraneTime

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. I have chatted to Frank Cooter about Audio Note Kit DACs in the past.
> 
> Was it this amp? Looks like 6SN7s? but don't know the other big tubes. Nice looking amp indeed! Wonder how much Frank charged for it?
> 
> ...


 
 That's the one!  Tyle interviewed Frank a few years ago and he said that sufficient pressure was applied to make him build the amp.  I was later told by someone in the know that it meant he was offered so much money he couldn't turn it down!


----------



## Jones Bob

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. I have chatted to Frank Cooter about Audio Note Kit DACs in the past.
> 
> Was it this amp? Looks like 6SN7s? but don't know the other big tubes. Nice looking amp indeed! Wonder how much Frank charged for it?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Top photo is of the separate powersupply (with mercury vapor rectifiers).
  
 Bottom is the amp itself. 76 input tube DC coupled to 6V6 (triode strapped) interstage transformer coupled to the 845 with OPT to headphones.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Not quite on topic but close: how much of the baby orpheus's potential does the HEV70 get? And what are some better pairings?


----------



## b0bb

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Not quite on topic but close: how much of the baby orpheus's potential does the HEV70 get? And what are some better pairings?


 

 The Baby Orpheus (HE-60) is greatly letdown by the HEV-70, the amp is capacitor coupled to the phones and used 1980's era Jfet opamps, (TI TL07x series) with that pairing the presentation is thin and uninteresting, the Koss ESP950 handily outperforms it. (It also has a poorly designed switched mode supply that likes to overheat and shutdown)
  
 With the appropriate bias resistor changes I use the HE-60 on the Stax SRM727 and the SRM-007t and the KGSSHV, in the order of increasing performance.
  
 In this pairing the midrange and spatial imaging comes close to the SR-009, it lacks the lightning fast attack and bass heft.


----------



## vapman

STAX friends,
  
 Is anyone here familiar with *SR-003MK2*? I've been wanting some of the in ear STAX for a while. I've been eyeing them on eBay...
  
 Hopefully I can find an amp which they'll run off of without too much trouble. There are plenty of bundles with the 252S on eBay, but I'm not such a fan of that amp.


----------



## b0bb

vapman said:


> STAX friends,
> 
> Is anyone here familiar with *SR-003MK2*? I've been wanting some of the in ear STAX for a while. I've been eyeing them on eBay...
> Hopefully I can find an amp which they'll run off of without too much trouble.


 
 I use mine with the SRM-323


----------



## vapman

b0bb said:


> I use mine with the SRM-323


 
 I don't imagine the sound of the STAX in ears would be similar to any of the  over ears. is it?


----------



## b0bb

vapman said:


> I don't imagine the sound of the STAX in ears would be similar to any of the  over ears. is it?


 

 No, soundstage is strictly between the ears.
  
 Bass is excellent, fast attack and goes deeper than most of the STAX range except the 009.


----------



## Jones Bob

I occasionally use my SR-003 Mk2 with my KGST. They sound really good with that amp. Be wary as they are a painful fit in the ears after 20-30 minutes. Maybe some custom silicone earbuds would help.


----------



## b0bb

jones bob said:


> Be wary as they are a painful fit in the ears after 20-30 minutes.


 
 The MKI pads are much better, try these if you have the ones that came with phones which were nothing more than a rubberband
  
 https://www.staxusa.com/parts/ear-pads/stax-silicone-earbud.html


----------



## Jones Bob

Thanks for the tip!

The SR-003 Mk2 are great in the summer when it's too sweaty to wear the overear STAX.


----------



## jibzilla

astrostar59 said:


> Nice. But IMO the rest are catching up. And the Stax 'sound' is not for everyone of course. The 009 is polarising, the 007 more forgiving.


 
  
 The 009 is very polarizing and as much of a pain to pair up source wise as the hd800 and 007mk1 amp wise. The 007 is more forgiving but kind of a hot mess when I think of all the issues. Like the hd800 it is amp picky and I was not impressed with an SZ3 model with both the GES and 727ii. I was much more impressed with a 71xxx model and mjolnir kgsshv but then Stax guru 3X0 said it was a lackluster amp, any version. I too feel that the kgsshv, while good, has some completion from synergetic $2k hd800 voiced amps let alone the $3k the kgsshv sells for. There is the Carbon but it is said by the builders themselves that it was started to help the 009's treble issues. That leaves the BHSE. Cool as it gets but a ton of money and an extra large footprint. Mjolnir only does one xlr input which is a pain cause I need 3 inputs and 2 rca. Head in Clouds stopped building. Did I say kind of a hot mess? Compared to the amp picky, paint flakey, hard to remove ear pad of the hd800 it is a hot mess. Hd800 has its faults but ultimately for me less faults than the 007 and 009 and I tried a few different versions, amps and sources.
  
 To each his own though and I don't blame people for falling in love with the speed and transparency and 007mk1 bass. Even the best driven (owned Ravenswood and Teton) hd800 can not compete in those areas. Better soundstage though and imaging and detail are on par.
  
 For me it is ironic that Spritzer likes to call allot of other headphones a hot mess. For me his one xlr only input makes both the 007 and 009 a hot mess because while the room my setup is in is decent size the space is really small and getting behind my salamander stand is not fun. I'm also not a fan of running this level of gear using adapters.


----------



## bmichels

jibzilla said:


> The 009 is very polarizing and as much of a pain to pair up source wise as the hd800 and 007mk1 amp wise. The 007 is more forgiving but kind of a hot mess when I think of all the issues. Like the hd800 it is amp picky and I was not impressed with an SZ3 model with both the GES and 727ii. I was much more impressed with a 71xxx model and mjolnir kgsshv but then Stax guru 3X0 said it was a lackluster amp, any version. I too feel that the kgsshv, while good, has some completion from synergetic $2k hd800 voiced amps let alone the $3k the kgsshv sells for. There is the Carbon but it is said by the builders themselves that it was started to help the 009's treble issues. That leaves the BHSE. Cool as it gets but a ton of money and an extra large footprint. Mjolnir only does one xlr input which is a pain cause I need 3 inputs and 2 rca. Head in Clouds stopped building. Did I say kind of a hot mess? Compared to the amp picky, paint flakey, hard to remove ear pad of the hd800 it is a hot mess. Hd800 has its faults but ultimately for me less faults than the 007 and 009 and I tried a few different versions, amps and sources.
> 
> To each his own though and I don't blame people for falling in love with the speed and transparency and 007mk1 bass. Even the best driven (owned Ravenswood and Teton) hd800 can not compete in those areas. Better soundstage though and imaging and detail are on par.
> 
> For me it is ironic that Spritzer likes to call allot of other headphones a hot mess. For me his one xlr only input makes both the 007 and 009 a hot mess because while the room my setup is in is decent size the space is really small and getting behind my salamander stand is not fun. I'm also not a fan of running this level of gear using adapters.


 
  
 Get a BHSE with good NOS & a Stax SR009     All my other Headphone are on retirement since I got this combo


----------



## vapman

b0bb said:


> The MKI pads are much better, try these if you have the ones that came with phones which were nothing more than a rubberband
> 
> https://www.staxusa.com/parts/ear-pads/stax-silicone-earbud.html


 
  
  


jones bob said:


> Thanks for the tip!
> 
> The SR-003 Mk2 are great in the summer when it's too sweaty to wear the overear STAX.


 
  
  


jones bob said:


> I occasionally use my SR-003 Mk2 with my KGST. They sound really good with that amp. Be wary as they are a painful fit in the ears after 20-30 minutes. Maybe some custom silicone earbuds would help.


 
  
  


b0bb said:


> No, soundstage is strictly between the ears.
> 
> Bass is excellent, fast attack and goes deeper than most of the STAX range except the 009.


 
 Thanks to all, I will order a set soon.


----------



## lojay

bmichels said:


> Get a BHSE with good NOS & a Stax SR009     All my other Headphone are on retirement since I got this combo


 Until you get the T2 and HE90!


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Please, don't feed the pissing contest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ali


----------



## astrostar59

jibzilla said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice. But IMO the rest are catching up. And the Stax 'sound' is not for everyone of course. The 009 is polarising, the 007 more forgiving.
> ...


 

 Oh my, lots of negatives. Pity, I had different experiences TBH. My Stax 717 was ok with the 007s Mk2s for a while, no issues, but found it could sound better with a better amp. That amp was a headinclouds KGSShv (Sanyo off-board). That combo was really good, smooth, dynamic and no fatigue. Then the 009s with the same amp was a step up. Yes, some treble issues, but that was fixed with some DAC tweaking. My current Carbon amp is better again and luckily pairs really well with my source. So IMO it is worth the 'hassle' or I like to call it the 'journey'.
  
 Lets face it, there is no complete system high end Stat system I am aware of that is less than 10K and you can buy it at a shop or dealer. Well maybe at a dealer who sells both Stax and Cavalli? Another subject, not going there. My point is keep at it, it is worth it IMO. My life is better every time I put the HPs on, crappy corny quote I know, but I am being serious!


----------



## nepherte

bmichels said:


> Get a BHSE with good NOS & a Stax SR009     All my other Headphone are on retirement since I got this combo


 
  
  


lojay said:


> Until you get the T2 and HE90!


 
  
  


ali-pacha said:


> Please, don't feed the pissing contest
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Obviously his Blue Hawaii is just a Chinese rip-off. It is black instead of blue. Dead giveaway.


----------



## bmichels

nepherte said:


> Obviously his Blue Hawaii is just a Chinese rip-off. It is black instead of blue. Dead giveaway.


 
  
 no no, it is a real* Blue *Blue Hawaii ....  Promis...


----------



## HemiSam

jibzilla said:


> The 009 is very polarizing and as much of a pain to pair up source wise as the hd800 and 007mk1 amp wise. The 007 is more forgiving but kind of a hot mess when I think of all the issues. Like the hd800 it is amp picky and I was not impressed with an SZ3 model with both the GES and 727ii. I was much more impressed with a 71xxx model and mjolnir kgsshv but then Stax guru 3X0 said it was a lackluster amp, any version. I too feel that the kgsshv, while good, has some completion from synergetic $2k hd800 voiced amps let alone the $3k the kgsshv sells for. There is the Carbon but it is said by the builders themselves that it was started to help the 009's treble issues. That leaves the BHSE. Cool as it gets but a ton of money and an extra large footprint. Mjolnir only does one xlr input which is a pain cause I need 3 inputs and 2 rca. Head in Clouds stopped building. Did I say kind of a hot mess? Compared to the amp picky, paint flakey, hard to remove ear pad of the hd800 it is a hot mess. Hd800 has its faults but ultimately for me less faults than the 007 and 009 and I tried a few different versions, amps and sources.
> 
> To each his own though and I don't blame people for falling in love with the speed and transparency and 007mk1 bass. Even the best driven (owned Ravenswood and Teton) hd800 can not compete in those areas. Better soundstage though and imaging and detail are on par.
> 
> For me it is ironic that Spritzer likes to call allot of other headphones a hot mess. For me his one xlr only input makes both the 007 and 009 a hot mess because while the room my setup is in is decent size the space is really small and getting behind my salamander stand is not fun. I'm also not a fan of running this level of gear using adapters.


 
  
 Out of curiosity, what does it matter what another member offered about an amp or headphones in such a critical review and conclusions as you're tossing out here?  I'm good with your sharing your views based on your experiences...that's appreciated.  I certainly get that many Stax are not for the masses, but you seem to be making some leaps quite definitively and I got lost in your post as to what is factually based on experience and what is extrapolation.
  
 I could not get there with the HD800.  Way too sharp for my ears on some nice supporting equipment, but that's why there are so many options available to the community.  Different strokes for different folks.  I certainly don't go into the HD800 threads telling them their kit sucks to my ears given my limited exposure to the headphones in meets and such.  I would not be adding any value...
  
 HS


----------



## paradoxper

Because talking about gear you've never heard and regurgitating the diarrhea of other members is what it's all about.


----------



## kh6idf

vapman said:


> STAX friends,
> 
> Is anyone here familiar with *SR-003MK2*? I've been wanting some of the in ear STAX for a while. I've been eyeing them on eBay...
> 
> Hopefully I can find an amp which they'll run off of without too much trouble. There are plenty of bundles with the 252S on eBay, but I'm not such a fan of that amp.


 

 For the past 3 days I've been listening to SR-003MK2 that I bought from Mudihan.  I'm using the SRM-252II and it sounds good to me.  Close to my SR202, except that the sound is all in the ear(s).  A little more bass with the SR-003 and highs may be SLIGHTLY rolled off but certainly not excessive.  Most of the Stax 'magic' is still there.
  
 Getting a proper seal is essential.  If they don't stay in the ear without using the headband, the eartip is too small.  I am using the large size of the 3 provided and get a good seal with those.  Without a good seal they will have no bass and sound excessively bright.


----------



## jibzilla

hemisam said:


> Out of curiosity, what does it matter what another member offered about an amp or headphones in such a critical review and conclusions as you're tossing out here?  I'm good with your sharing your views based on your experiences...that's appreciated.  I certainly get that many Stax are not for the masses, but you seem to be making some leaps quite definitively and I got lost in your post as to what is factually based on experience and what is extrapolation.
> 
> I could not get there with the HD800.  Way too sharp for my ears on some nice supporting equipment, but that's why there are so many options available to the community.  Different strokes for different folks.  I certainly don't go into the HD800 threads telling them their kit sucks to my ears given my limited exposure to the headphones in meets and such.  I would not be adding any value...
> 
> HS


 
  
 Um I 'm pretty sure I said I share 3XO's view on the kgsshv. Sorry if that got lost in translation. With bright amps like B22, bryston bha-1 and the original schiit mojo yes the hd800 sounds awful. Despite their nice build and expensive price those amps really cater to Lcd-2/3, He1k, etc. With wheatfield ha-2, mainline, Teton and Ravenswood though the hd800 is a whole other beast. If the mjolnir kgsshv's were made somewhere where the parts were not so much to import I think the kgsshv would compete much better. Maybe if there was a mini bhse that was around $3k with a much smaller footprint with multiple inputs and outputs.
  
 To be fair the hd800 amps that I mentioned have their own issues. Wheatfield has only one input and output, Mainline comes as a kit, Teton and Ravenswood comes with iem mode which makes no sense, and I do not own any of them anymore, well still trying to sell the Ravenswood. Also Spritzer has said the hd800 is the best dynamic made and I think Dr. Gilmore still sports an He-6 so I think they can give credit where credit is due.
  
 Just me but I think Spritzer, Justin and Dr. Gilmore are all aware stax are not perfect. Maybe they have thinner skin that I thought but I would figure they want truthful feedback rather than kiss butt. 
  


paradoxper said:


> Because talking about gear you've never heard and regurgitating the diarrhea of other members is what it's all about.


 
  
 Yep just about as bad as saying someone's experience does not count cause you have a fanboy crush on a headphone.


----------



## weasel1979

Hello!
 Great great forum, thank you guys. Hey does anyone know where to repair a broken imported Stax headphone in Europe? I am from Germany and I own an imported SR-007 and 009 and I recently heard from an Hifi friend, that the distributer in Germany refuses to repair imported cans. Can anyone verify this claim? If so, where can I send my headphone to get it repaired (in case needed)? 
 Thanks a lot.


----------



## Jones Bob

weasel1979 said:


> Hello!
> Great great forum, thank you guys. Hey does anyone know where to repair a broken imported Stax headphone in Europe? I am from Germany and I own an imported SR-007 and 009 and I recently heard from an Hifi friend, that the distributer in Germany refuses to repair imported cans. Can anyone verify this claim? If so, where can I send my headphone to get it repaired (in case needed)?
> Thanks a lot.




You might look on the STAX Japan site for other dealers in Europe to contact.

ElectroMods in the U.K. has a good reputation for servicing broken STAXEN. Hurry before Brexit complicates things.


----------



## joseph69

@Jones Bob 
  
 My apologies, I didn't realize you were using this avatar.
 I had seen Woo Audio using the image on Google and stole it from them. I'll search for something different. By the way, nice avatar!


----------



## Jones Bob

joseph69 said:


> @Jones Bob
> 
> 
> My apologies, I didn't realize you were using this avatar.
> I had seen Woo Audio using the image on Google and stole it from them. I'll search for something different. By the way, nice avatar!




Don't sweat it, no problem for me. The image is in the public domain. Wish that everyone would eventually use it.


----------



## paradoxper

jibzilla said:


> Yep just about as bad as saying someone's experience does not count cause you have a fanboy crush on a headphone.


 
 Bad deflection. I never said nor implied your experience does not count. It totally counts, for yourself.


----------



## joseph69

jones bob said:


> Don't sweat it, no problem for me. The image is in the public domain. Wish that everyone would eventually use it.


 
 If you don't mind, then I'll keep it too…I really like it!


----------



## HemiSam

jibzilla said:


> Um I 'm pretty sure I said I share 3XO's view on the kgsshv. Sorry if that got lost in translation. With bright amps like B22, bryston bha-1 and the original schiit mojo yes the hd800 sounds awful. Despite their nice build and expensive price those amps really cater to Lcd-2/3, He1k, etc. With wheatfield ha-2, mainline, Teton and Ravenswood though the hd800 is a whole other beast. If the mjolnir kgsshv's were made somewhere where the parts were not so much to import I think the kgsshv would compete much better. Maybe if there was a mini bhse that was around $3k with a much smaller footprint with multiple inputs and outputs.
> 
> To be fair the hd800 amps that I mentioned have their own issues. Wheatfield has only one input and output, Mainline comes as a kit, Teton and Ravenswood comes with iem mode which makes no sense, and I do not own any of them anymore, well still trying to sell the Ravenswood. Also Spritzer has said the hd800 is the best dynamic made and I think Dr. Gilmore still sports an He-6 so I think they can give credit where credit is due.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Stax I own and have gotten to listen to due to the generosity of friends and acquaintances are far from perfect to my ears.  I do enjoy what I have at the moment (007AMK2, KGSSHV Carbon, KGST and SR-003MK2), but perfect they are not.  I often listen to my dynamics more so.  I am particularly smitten with my HD650's out of a Headamp GS-1 with upgraded dynalo boards at the moment.  Not grabbing my TH900's much now.  So don't worry about hurting my feelings, and I sincerely doubt Birgir, Kevin or Justin are at all touched by your post.  
  
 I got to listen to the Teton with McIntosh and HD800 cans last year....meh but that's just me and it was a relatively short listen.
  
 My only point was it read as if your views are so definitive when it looked like they were not all based on your own experiences.  No more, no less.
  
 HS


----------



## ctemkin

Thanks for this suggestion.  I placed my order with StaxUSA for a medium and for a large.


----------



## Jones Bob

ctemkin said:


> Thanks for this suggestion.  I placed my order with StaxUSA for a medium and for a large.




I went to the site to order me up a set of the large earbuds, but the default lowest shipping on the $12 purchase was $16.16. Screw Yamas. What a greedy POS.


----------



## ctemkin

I have to agree that I was shocked by the shipping cost, but I didn't see a great alternative. At least there was only one shipping charge for both items.


----------



## Jones Bob

Yeah it could have worse. Shipping quote for each earbud.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

b0bb said:


> The Baby Orpheus (HE-60) is greatly letdown by the HEV-70, the amp is capacitor coupled to the phones and used 1980's era Jfet opamps, (TI TL07x series) with that pairing the presentation is thin and uninteresting, the Koss ESP950 handily outperforms it. (It also has a poorly designed switched mode supply that likes to overheat and shutdown)
> 
> With the appropriate bias resistor changes I use the HE-60 on the Stax SRM727 and the SRM-007t and the KGSSHV, in the order of increasing performance.
> 
> In this pairing the midrange and spatial imaging comes close to the SR-009, it lacks the lightning fast attack and bass heft.


 

 How is the pairing with the HeadAmp Aristaeus, Woo GES, or the Mjolnir-Audio improvement on the GES?


----------



## jibzilla

hemisam said:


> The Stax I own and have gotten to listen to due to the generosity of friends and acquaintances are far from perfect to my ears.  I do enjoy what I have at the moment (007AMK2, KGSSHV Carbon, KGST and SR-003MK2), but perfect they are not.  I often listen to my dynamics more so.  I am particularly smitten with my HD650's out of a Headamp GS-1 with upgraded dynalo boards at the moment.  Not grabbing my TH900's much now.  So don't worry about hurting my feelings, and I sincerely doubt Birgir, Kevin or Justin are at all touched by your post.
> 
> I got to listen to the Teton with McIntosh and HD800 cans last year....meh but that's just me and it was a relatively short listen.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes they were def. my own experiences. I only used 3XO as an example since he has allot of experience with stax especially more than myself. I still feel like I gave them a fair shot. 6 different headphones, 3 different amps and countless sources and that is just what I bought, not including demos.
  
 Would anyone in their right mind pick a mjolnir kgsshv over a gsxmk2 if the gsxmk2 could drive 007's and 009's? I mean inputs and outputs out the wazoo, preamp, better case, cheaper case parts, color options, multi gain, separate power supply and I have to imagine better packaging as my kgsshv packaging was poor. Do I really need to keep going?
  
 I know Justin probably can't do this with kgsshv and keep it at $3k. From what I hear the boards are pretty expensive. But an improved 323? Just me but I think it can be done.
  
 I think Spritzer has given a valiant effort for providing Stax owners with a quality amp. I just think there is no way he can keep up with Justin when Justin is paying much less for parts and shipping.
  
 That's really the only thing that would get me interested in headphones again. A $3k headamp electrostatic amp with an he-60 output along with pro bias. Even the hd800 is on its way out once I get my car situation figured out. I am much more interested in SS-A5, SS-G777ES, ns2000 and ds5000 at this point. I may never be able to afford SSR10's but with MSB launching a $40k amp, $75k Orpheus system and $60k Shang ri la the best of the best headphone systems are all waaay out of my price range anymore which is what really drew me to the hobby in the first place.


----------



## b0bb

bosiemoncrieff said:


> How is the pairing with the HeadAmp Aristaeus, Woo GES, or the Mjolnir-Audio improvement on the GES?


 

 I do not have those amps, someone else here might.


----------



## Jaab

Hi there,
I recapped 2 amps this weekend, a SRM-1 and a SRM-1 mk2 professional, with the first one I notice a humm
in the left earspeaker (with any source connected and not dependent from the volume). When I connect a source the hum is difficult to ear but it's still there. Somebody have the schematic of this amplifier? 

For the second one mk2 I didn't notice any humm but if I increase the volume at maximum, I notice a humm (without any source connected) is it normal for this amps? otherwise both sound great with my srd5

Thanks


----------



## Tinkerer

Did you rebalance and reset the offset on the amps after fixing them up?

First one sounds like a ground loop though. I'd try connecting a wire between the ground lug and the source chassis and see if that doesn't solve it.


----------



## bmichels

it is incredible that after having OFFICIALLY shown the SRM212 prototype a year AGO, at there is no more news about it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
*Has the project been abandoned ?  it was quite promising....*


----------



## arnaud

Maybe because it was never approved by Stax themselves? ...


----------



## bmichels

arnaud said:


> Maybe because it was never approved by Stax themselves? ...


 
  
 It was displayed on STAX's  booth at CES 2016 !  So... it was an OFFICIAL Stax prototype.


----------



## Francisk

bmichels said:


> It was displayed on STAX's  booth at CES 2016 !  So... it was an OFFICIAL Stax prototype.


 
 I've been waiting for the SRM212 DAC/AMP for some time now and it's no where in sight at Stax website. I'm sure a product that takes so long to release must be fine tuned to almost perfection....Oh well, let's see if it is


----------



## arnaud

bmichels said:


> It was displayed on STAX's  booth at CES 2016 !  So... it was an OFFICIAL Stax prototype.




Not quite, it was an edifier booth with what seems like a loose canon ( stax us distributor ). But maybe you know better...


----------



## vapman

arnaud said:


> Not quite, it was an edifier booth with what seems like a loose canon ( stax us distributor ). But maybe you know better...




Edifier as in the company who makes earbuds is related to stax?


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Edifier OWNS Stax.


----------



## Jones Bob

The Chinese company Edifier owns STAX.

I've recently had business dealings with David Ip in the video and he is a real stand-up guy. I believe he is working to straighten out the known STAX distribution issues in North America. I look forward to his efforts here.


----------



## astrostar59

jones bob said:


> The Chinese company Edifier owns STAX.
> 
> I've recently had business dealings with David Ip in the video and he is a real stand-up guy. I believe he is working to straighten out the known STAX distribution issues in North America. I look forward to his efforts here.


 

 Hope that is true.I heard on here of issues with warranty claims in the states.


----------



## Pokemonn

regarding warranty issue, i am now repairng my SR-009 right swivel screw which bit loosen.
 My warranty priod expired 2 month ago. but!
 I got stax telephone few hour ago. Stax service division guy said they repair my SR-009 at FREE! how very kind company stax is....!


----------



## forestitalia

pokemonn said:


> regarding warranty issue, i am now repairng my SR-009 right swivel screw which bit loosen.
> My warranty priod expired 2 month ago. but!
> I got stax telephone few hour ago. Stax service division guy said they repair my SR-009 at FREE! how very kind company stax is....!


 
 Kind...if you live in Japan.


----------



## MacedonianHero

forestitalia said:


> Kind...if you live in Japan.


 
  
 Good point. Stax USA has certainly left a lot more to be desired in terms of customer service. Thankfully the Canadian distributer is really good to deal with from what I hear.


----------



## Pokemonn

then come to japan. no immigration ban here


----------



## vapman

macedonianhero said:


> Good point. Stax USA has certainly left a lot more to be desired in terms of customer service. Thankfully the Canadian distributer is really good to deal with from what I hear.


 
 Who are they? I'd much prefer to buy the in ears from a distro as opposed to eBay...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
@Pokemonn  Hopefully will be set uo in a while out there,..


----------



## jibzilla

pokemonn said:


> then come to japan. no immigration ban here


 
  
 Hmm get headphones fixed or get blown up by a terrorist... decisions decisions


----------



## Pokemonn

more likely to blown up by Stax 80th annversary products line up in near future.


----------



## paradoxper

Very nice Blue Hawaii for prospective buyers.


----------



## Pokemonn

yes SR-011 buyers definitely will buy BHSE in near future. Ether estat buyers too.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

paradoxper said:


> Very nice Blue Hawaii for prospective buyers.




Single chassis, respectable builder, will be a great buy for someone!


----------



## jibzilla

pokemonn said:


> more likely to blown up by Stax 80th annversary products line up in near future.


 
  
 Stax talks allot. I will believe it when K.G. says something about it.


----------



## mulveling

Based numerous reports of Yama's "service" it seems likely it will be very good for Stax if they ditch the current USA distributor and get a new one -- literally anyone else. It's a big turnoff to buy very expensive goods through a distributor like that. 
  
 Quote:


jibzilla said:


> Stax talks allot. I will believe it when K.G. says something about it.


 
 Stax doesn't really talk a lot. They talk a little, in Japanese, and then over here we speculate and extrapolate the translations to death.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Where can I get a baby orpheus to Stax adapter?


----------



## Sorrodje

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Where can I get a baby orpheus to Stax adapter?


 
  
 Here ? https://www.inexxon.com/online-shop/adapterkabel-adapter-cables/


----------



## Jones Bob

sorrodje said:


> Here ? https://www.inexxon.com/online-shop/adapterkabel-adapter-cables/




The male sex of the HE60 connection shown in the photo is not correct. 

With HV on the PS side, it should be a female as shown here: 
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32262473264.html


----------



## labrat (Aug 12, 2018)

del


----------



## labrat (Aug 12, 2018)

del


----------



## Jones Bob

labrat said:


> If you look more closely at the photos, the "pins" are female.
> So this is a correct connector.
> Can be made with some effort if you have the right size female pins,, but it is not a very sturdy connector.
> I have tried to fill up with epoxy, and make a guided path for the male pins in the HE60 connector from the headphones.
> Did not succeed very much.




The photo I was referring to was in Sorrodje's post: 
https://www.inexxon.com/online-shop/adapterkabel-adapter-cables/
Too blurry to make out. 

Are you the maker/seller? 

Is it smart to have exposed pins where +580VDC bias and 1800VAC P-P signals are present?


----------



## Jones Bob

labrat said:


> These do look good, but for a price!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HE60-to-STAX-adapter/32262473264.html
> 
> And cannot be bought anymore!




I just thru that URL up as a photo example. Too bad they are unobtainium.


----------



## bearFNF

jones bob said:


> I just thru that URL up as a photo example. Too bad they are unobtainium.


 

 Here's an another option. Not sure if they are still available?
http://apuresound.com/ehrc.html


----------



## labrat (Aug 12, 2018)

del


----------



## labrat (Aug 12, 2018)

del


----------



## labrat (Aug 12, 2018)

del


----------



## Jones Bob

labrat said:


> Sorry, I linked to the wrong post!
> I did mean Sorrodje's post!
> And the connector is correct, as I explained.
> And the connections will not be open once the adapter is connected to the Sennheisser connector from the HE60.
> ...




It's poor safety practice to rely only on the headphone connector cover. It is still possible have hot pins exposed when swapping out headphone. Best to do it right and make it fool proof. I sure would not have that cable in my home. 

The 1800VAC P-P is what a KGBH is capable of putting out to drive the headphones.


----------



## Sorrodje

Inexxon's adapter is perfectly fine. I have another adapter for my own HE60 and the pins are the same and onece plugged in the HE60 connector, they're not exposed anymore. My own adapter is much less clean though. Inexxonprobably uses a Stax extension cable that already costs 90€ and replace the female stax plug by the  pins you can see + the resistor.  looks like a nice and clean Job. 
  
  
 yea it's expensive but at least it's available and well made by a trustable craftsman. It's a safe option for lazy people like me .


----------



## VandyMan

I need a new headband pad for my SR-009s. The Stax USA website has some, but not for the 009 and they don't seem to reply to emails. Does anyone know if any of the headpads on the Stax USA site will work with the 009? If not, does anyone know of another source for people in the US?


----------



## Jones Bob

sorrodje said:


> Inexxon's adapter is perfectly fine. I have another adapter for my own HE60 and the pins are the same and onece plugged in the HE60 connector, they're not exposed anymore. My own adapter is much less clean though. Inexxonprobably uses a Stax extension cable that already costs 90€ and replace the female stax plug by the  pins you can see + the resistor.  looks like a nice and clean Job.
> 
> 
> yea it's expensive but at least it's available and well made by a trustable craftsman. It's a safe option for lazy people like me .




If the pins are exposed without the headphone cable connected, IT IS NOT SAFE.

Sheesh.....


----------



## Jones Bob

vandyman said:


> I need a new headband pad for my SR-009s. The Stax USA website has some, but not for the 009 and they don't seem to reply to emails. Does anyone know if any of the headpads on the Stax USA site will work with the 009? If not, does anyone know of another source for people in the US?




Try Plurison the STAX dealer in Canada.


----------



## Sorrodje

jones bob said:


> If the pins are exposed without the headphone cable connected, IT IS NOT SAFE.
> 
> Sheesh.....


 
  
  
 Honestly it took time for me to understand what you meant. but it's because i never thought to plug the adapter in the amplifier BEFORE to plug the headphone on the adapter and i never could think somenone could be that stupid.


----------



## Jones Bob

Common sense isn't so common these days. 

If you DIYed a cable then you are too too smart to do this. 

My concern was: to sell or recommend this product to a customer without experience could cause personal injury and or fire issues. It is a kludged attempt that is not ready for prime time.


----------



## RAFA

So, I am almost there to step into the realm of STAX. It will be either the SRS-2170 or the SRS-3100.
  
 However, there is a thing, that I am interested in.
  
 Is there any news on the SRM212, that is shown in the following video:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrXFVHIHLl4
  
 It is a year old now.


----------



## Jones Bob

rafa said:


> So, I am almost there to step into the realm of STAX. It will be either the SRS-2170 or the SRS-3100.
> 
> However, there is a thing, that I am interested in.
> 
> ...




I emailed Douglas Ip several days ago requesting more updated info. So far only crickets..........


----------



## RAFA

jones bob said:


> I emailed Douglas Ip several days ago requesting more updated info. So far only crickets..........


 
  
 Great. Hopefully he will answer. It really looks great.


----------



## hpeter

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. I have chatted to Frank Cooter about Audio Note Kit DACs in the past.
> 
> Was it this amp? Looks like 6SN7s? but don't know the other big tubes. Nice looking amp indeed! Wonder how much Frank charged for it?
> 
> ...


 
not cheap
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/13E1-ITT-STC-LOGO-NOS-2-PIECES-VALVE-TUBE-RARE-ITEM-/171936068243


----------



## Martinrm

Just picked up a SRM-232S off ebay from Japan, and i'm wondering about converting to 120V AC for use in the US. Has anyone rewired their transformer and can post a pic of the jumpers/wiring. Trying to understand what was meant by this post in a long forgotten stax thread. 


> And Spritzer just, once again, shared the good news to all on how to re-wire the SRM-323S:
> 
> ------------------- from Spritzer ---------------------------------------
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 Wiring diagram:
 http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/srm323s.pdf
  
 Also, maybe someone will know. Is the earpad shape the same on the SR-207 as the SR-307's? I'd like to get this adapter http://www.modhouseaudio.com/stax-earpad-adapter/xbd7diflbdflc39z62hgswzxgqship and put ZMF pads on. 
  
 After a long while of being interested i'm finally getting my first Stax setup, it may not be a SR-009 but i'm still super excited. Cannot wait for it to come in. In the mean time i'll make some preparations


----------



## Michgelsen

jones bob said:


> Is it smart to have exposed pins where +580VDC bias and 1800VAC P-P signals are present?


 
  
 I once made a ghetto-style HE60-Stax adapter from blank circuit board and pins from molex connectors, without insulation, and while listening I once thought: what's that soft tingeling sensation in my fingers? Apparently I was touching the adapter and barely noticed. This was out of a SRM-T1 though, so nowhere near the power of a Blue Hawaii, but I was surprised that it barely had any effect.


----------



## Jones Bob

Pour a beer on it and see what happens.


----------



## JimL11

michgelsen said:


> I once made a ghetto-style HE60-Stax adapter from blank circuit board and pins from molex connectors, without insulation, and while listening I once thought: what's that soft tingeling sensation in my fingers? Apparently I was touching the adapter and barely noticed. This was out of a SRM-T1 though, so nowhere near the power of a Blue Hawaii, but I was surprised that it barely had any effect.


 

 Probably a Blue Hawaii would be no different.  There are two sources of high voltage:  the bias supply and the audio signal.  The bias supply is +580 volts, but it goes through a 5 megohm resistor, which means that if your body grounded it there would be less than 0.2 mA going through you - just a mild tingle.  As for the audio signal, if you are playing it at the same level the T1 and Blue Hawaii should give the same voltage and current output - so should be no different.


----------



## HiFiIsExpensive

Hello guys, can anyone here recommend me a good DAC for my SRM007t and SR007 mk1 set up? I'm currently using the Apogee duet as a DAC and I'm looking to upgrade to something that is not a production card. Cheers!


----------



## axle_69

hifiisexpensive said:


> Hello guys, can anyone here recommend me a good DAC for my SRM007t and SR007 mk1 set up? I'm currently using the Apogee duet as a DAC and I'm looking to upgrade to something that is not a production card. Cheers!


 

 I guess you would want to take advantage of the inherently balanced design of the earspeakers, take a look at the Schiit Gungnir Multibit and Yggdrasil. You may also want to take a look at the Holo Spring, balanced as well (if NOS mode is your thing... it seems upsampling in the DAC isn't as good as in the Schiit DACs, also not that sure about a smooth analogue filter without upsampling, although you can upsample in the computer).


----------



## Jaab

Thanks Tinkerer for your reply,
 yes I had adjusted the biais and the ofset for both, after your reply I decided to change the power cable of the srm1 because it was a Japanese version (2 wires). I adjusted the biais and ofset again but nothing have changed for the humm!  but I noticed that the adjustment of the left signal was difficult because constantly changing (also the range) in comparison, the right signal was very stable. Perhaps some components have to be changed too. I will check the diodes etc


----------



## Tinkerer

jaab said:


> Thanks Tinkerer for your reply,
> 
> 
> yes I had adjusted the biais and the ofset for both, after your reply I decided to change the power cable of the srm1 because it was a Japanese version (2 wires). I adjusted the biais and ofset again but nothing have changed for the humm!  but I noticed that the adjustment of the left signal was difficult because constantly changing (also the range) in comparison, the right signal was very stable. Perhaps some components have to be changed too. I will check the diodes etc



 


I had something kind of similar when I got an old SRA-12S. It was a leaky resistor causing a hiss. I rebuilt the whole output boards anyway so it wasn't a big deal trying to hunt down a specific one, but I'd definitely check those old carbon resistors in the SRM-1.


----------



## deuter

Jumped into the electrostatics recently with a pair of SR 007 mk1.

Given the age of the headphones the elastic looks a little stretched.
What I have done to avoid any further stretching is to flip the leather headband on the side when on my Omega replica stand.
So there is no further tension on the stand.

The question I had was how prone is the elastic to loosening and also where's can I get a replacement if required.


----------



## Tinkerer

It's just plain old elastic and the headbands of the 007 Mk I are well known for doing that. The original stuff can just be shortened with a scissor every few months to make it the right legth again. And when you get tired of that, some regular newer elastic can be swapped in for a couple bucks. Only thing that matters is the width and it's a standard size.

I put new elastic in mine about nine months ago and haven't had adjust it at all since then.


----------



## deuter

tinkerer said:


> It's just plain old elastic and the headbands of the 007 Mk I are well known for doing that. The original stuff can just be shortened with a scissor every few months to make it the right legth again. And when you get tired of that, some regular newer elastic can be swapped in for a couple bucks. Only thing that matters is the width and it's a standard size.
> 
> 
> 
> I put new elastic in mine about nine months ago and haven't had adjust it at all since then.



 


Any advise on steps to change the elastic, what you mean by cut the elastic?

Also where can I get it?


----------



## Tinkerer

The elastic is just attached to a plastic peg under the headband mount. You undo the two phillips screws, cut the excess length, attach the elastic back to the peg and then screw the mount back to the frame.

As for the elastic, it's just regular elastic. You can get it from any clothing store or online. 20mm width band if I remember right.


----------



## deuter

tinkerer said:


> The elastic is just attached to a plastic peg under the headband mount. You undo the two phillips screws, cut the excess length, attach the elastic back to the peg and then screw the mount back to the frame.
> 
> 
> 
> As for the elastic, it's just regular elastic. You can get it from any clothing store or online. 20mm width band if I remember right.



 


That is very helpful.

Thank You


----------



## TraneTime

hpeter said:


> not cheap
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/13E1-ITT-STC-LOGO-NOS-2-PIECES-VALVE-TUBE-RARE-ITEM-/171936068243


 
 Yeah.  But then neither is the BHSE.


----------



## paradoxper

What should have been.


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> What should have been.


 
 But?


----------



## paradoxper

Tiny details destroy dreams.


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> Tiny details destroy dreams.


 
 This is the T2 you've been building, correct?
 If so, I take it that it's unfortunately not working as of now?


----------



## paradoxper

joseph69 said:


> This is the T2 you've been building, correct?
> If so, I take it that it's unfortunately not working as of now?


 
 The problem is with the faceplate which will need re-polishing and anodizing.


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> The problem is with the faceplate which will need re-polishing and anodizing.


 
 Can't tell from the photos.
 It sure looks like a very nice unit, enjoy it!


----------



## nepherte

paradoxper said:


> What should have been.


 
  
 That's a beatiful design though!


----------



## paradoxper

nepherte said:


> That's a beatiful design though!


 
 We're real happy with it as well.


----------



## Michgelsen

Ouch, is that a vertical scratch in the second photo? I hope it isn't too deep.


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> nepherte said:
> 
> 
> > That's a beatiful design though!
> ...


 
 Lovely design. You were involved with that look as with the KGSShv? Like it. How does it sound then???????????
  
 Re the FP scratch, could you mask off and flat it, spray silver over? I can't tell but looks like no graphics on the amp itself. I sprayed my top cover on my Carbon as I preferred gunmetal for the top.
  
 I remember Birgir complaining about scratching faceplates. It is easy to do when they are on a work bench.


----------



## paradoxper

Same design cues with a different application for the finished look. I'll let you know in a year. 
  
 We're not cheaping out for the fix. The idea was to present a design caliber that demanded a finish to match. Aesthetic flaws aren't tolerable. So we fix them.
  
 The faceplates each are laser engraved with a T2 and PS identifier.


----------



## JimL11

whoops.


----------



## JimL11

paradoxper said:


> The problem is with the faceplate which will need re-polishing and anodizing.


 
 Ouch!  Sorry to hear that.


----------



## ye.

I have some questions regarding a Stax headphone (a SR404 Signature).
  
 Of  what kind of material is the dust protection foil on the driver unit?  I need to clean it and do not want to dissolve or damage it.
  
 Secondly: is it normal that the metal mesh, on the side of the ear, is bent inwards in the middle? In my case it is in the middle about 4mm "deeper" in the headphone than on the border and touches firmly the dust protection foil.


----------



## headinclouds

paradoxper said:


> What should have been.


 
 That's a very impressive piece of work and I hope it sounds as good as it looks.  I sympathise with the scratch situation. I know how difficut it is to work with heavy panels which have already been finished to a high standard, especially a polish.  Good luck with the resolution of it.


----------



## paradoxper

headinclouds said:


> That's a very impressive piece of work and I hope it sounds as good as it looks.  I sympathise with the scratch situation. I know how difficut it is to work with heavy panels which have already been finished to a high standard, especially a polish.  Good luck with the resolution of it.


 
 Thank you, Geoff. The shop had the panels for well over two months and provided sloppy communication (during a takeover) however, they got back to us promptly and have offered a week turn around as well as covering costs.


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> Thank you, Geoff. The shop had the panels for well over two months and provided sloppy communication (during a takeover) however, they got back to us promptly and have offered a week turn around as well as covering costs.


 
 Is this your personal amp or is it going to be in production?
 I'm confused because you mention "us" and I'm under the impression you're speaking of a company?


----------



## paradoxper

joseph69 said:


> Is this your personal amp or is it going to be in production?
> I'm confused because you mention "us" and I'm under the impression you're speaking of a company?


 
 There are no production T2's. This is a personal amp with Kerry.


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> There are no production T2's. This is a personal amp with Kerry.


 
  Yes, I thought you might have been trying to bring them back.


----------



## paradoxper

joseph69 said:


> Yes, I thought you might have been trying to bring them back.


 
 Lot of layout work for this build as it's completely custom for a T2 and the resurrection would be Kerry's decision.


----------



## Michgelsen

joseph69 said:


> Yes, I thought you might have been trying to bring them back.


 
  
 I believe Stax released the T2 circuit only for DIY builders, so you're not allowed to use it for commercial production.


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> joseph69 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I thought you might have been trying to bring them back.
> ...


 

 Might be early days, but how's it sound? Please....
 Sympathise with your troubles, but really nice work on that amp, it looks super professional. The tolerance on the top plate to the tube sockets is very neat / accurate. And the 2 form factor, amp and power supply looking the same size, nice.


----------



## VandyMan

As I mentioned earlier, my STAX SR-009 headpad (not earpad) needs to be replaced. I emailed STAX USA and got no response. They have not phone number listed. I emailed STAX's Canadian distributor and got no response. STAX Japan has no email address listed on their site. Only a phone number. Now I'm stuck with an unusable $4000 pair of headphones. I guess my last resort will be to call STAX in Japan and hope I get someone who speaks English. Until STAX fixes the situation with STAX USA service, I would not advise anyone to buy STAX products in the US if you expect to be able to get service.


----------



## paradoxper

astrostar59 said:


> Might be early days, but how's it sound? Please....
> Sympathise with your troubles, but really nice work on that amp, it looks super professional. The tolerance on the top plate to the tube sockets is very neat / accurate. And the 2 form factor, amp and power supply looking the same size, nice.


 
 Everything is being prepared to go back for re-polishing, anodizing and engraving. I'll share my thoughts on the sound later. 
  
 This build has taken quite a while but we put a lot of thought into the design and had aspirations to make this the best T2 build.


----------



## martyn73

Hi,
  
 I have a Stax SR-007A and SRM-727II and would appreciate some advice. I'm having difficulties in accurately adjusting the volume balance so that the sound is consistently in the centre of my head. I have some hearing loss on my right side (rolls off at 16KHz) and tinnitus which seems to move from mainly the right side to the left. I have followed the instructions by moving the inner dial (while holding the outer dial) to the right to try and compensate, but for certain tracks the stereo image seems to shift left and right. I'm finding that I'm frequently having to make minor adjustments which is not ideal.
  
 Is this just my damaged hearing or could the Stax equipment be faulty too? My concern is that the SR-007A's drivers could be imbalanced and a repair would be very expensive. I imported the headphones from Japan in April 2016. I have the Sennheiser HD650 headphones which I have used with a Violectric V200 (my 'B' team) and a hateful iPhone 7 and the sound still seems biased to the left unless I alter the balance on the iPhone. The narrower soundstage provided by the HD650 seems to mitigate this problem to some degree. I used to own a Stax SR-202 but didn't notice any balance issues. However, this was before tinnitus and hearing loss.
  
 Thanks, 
  
  
 Martyn


----------



## Jaab

I found the cause of the humm (left side) of my smr-1 amp, perhaps useful for someone else !
 close to the output there are a groupe of 8 films capacitors 0.022 uF 630V (two in series). 
 The multimeter didn't see any difference between them but a lcr meter show me that the dissipation factor was very different for 2 of them. I replace the two capacitors and the humm is gone! Now I have to find the cause for the other amp.


----------



## jibzilla

vandyman said:


> As I mentioned earlier, my STAX SR-009 headpad (not earpad) needs to be replaced. I emailed STAX USA and got no response. They have not phone number listed. I emailed STAX's Canadian distributor and got no response. STAX Japan has no email address listed on their site. Only a phone number. Now I'm stuck with an unusable $4000 pair of headphones. I guess my last resort will be to call STAX in Japan and hope I get someone who speaks English. Until STAX fixes the situation with STAX USA service, I would not advise anyone to buy STAX products in the US if you expect to be able to get service.


 
  
 As someone else has mentioned it's probably just a 20 cent piece of elastic to repair yourself. There are also headpads for sale on ebay etc. If you did pay extra for the U.S. service I do not blame you for being upset though. That is B.S. what they did to their customers. Especially since you can save up to $1k by going through pricejapan or yahoo japan (new) or used on the forums here.
  
 Pricejapan had some real issues lately but I think they have resolved most of that. I have never had an issue with pricejapan and got my airbow's and th-600's through them.


----------



## Tinkerer

martyn73 said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Could just be tracking on the volume pot or mastering on the various tracks. Set the pot balance at low volume, because any tracking difference is much less noticeable at higher volumes. Also run some mono tones through it while you're doing that to make sure it's centered.

I've found that a number of tracks are just slightly off-center with the mastering though.


----------



## VandyMan

jibzilla said:


> As someone else has mentioned it's probably just a 20 cent piece of elastic to repair yourself. There are also headpads for sale on ebay etc. If you did pay extra for the U.S. service I do not blame you for being upset though. That is B.S. what they did to their customers. Especially since you can save up to $1k by going through pricejapan or yahoo japan (new) or used on the forums here.


 

 The 20 cent piece of elastic was in a reply to someone about a different model. The SR-009 has a padded leather headpad. The pad has to fit into the slider mechanisms at each side. I'm not that handy, so I really want the factory part. Otherwise, knowing my history with such things, I'll probably snap the plastic or something.

 I'm going to make some additional effort to contact the Canadian distributor. You are right about PriceJapan. I bought from STAX USA specifically for access to parts and for the warranty.  That worked out well! (They were having a rare sale at the time, so it was a smaller price difference, but still.)

 Someone messaged me saying that Yamas is no longer the US distributor.  I'm surprised that all the headphone entrepreneurs around here are not all over this opportunity. Get on it guys! We need a reliable STAX importer who replies to emails, goes to CanJams, participates on Head-Fi, etc. HeadAmp?


----------



## joseph69

michgelsen said:


> paradoxper said:
> 
> 
> > Lot of layout work for this build as it's completely custom for a T2 and the resurrection would be Kerry's decision.
> ...


 
 Yes, I remember when I started following this thread and reading your posts (and others as well) about the difficult T2 build.
 Best of luck.
  
 Makes sense.
 I guess one would have a law suit on their hands.


----------



## rgs9200m

From the 'other' site, fyi:
  
_Finally received my replacement SR-009 cable from STAX Japan and their shipper A&M Enterprises.  _
_All looks good and will be soldering it in a few days._
_Talking via email with Douglas Ip of STAX, he mentioned that as of Jan 1, 2017 Yama Enterprises is no longer their STAX distributor/dealer here.   Douglas is working now to establish a company and warehouse out of Dallas/Fort Worth Texas._


----------



## abagun

bought 007a+007tii last year


----------



## billqs

Being the STAX distributor would an audiophile dream! You could pay folks in gear! (Yes, I know this is not how business really works...)


----------



## maximal112

Quick question for those that have imported 007 mkII from Japan, am I better off getting from Price Japan or from one of the resellers on Amazon? or doesn't really matter? 
 Shipping to Australia if it makes any difference
  
 Thanks


----------



## deuter

maximal112 said:


> Quick question for those that have imported 007 mkII from Japan, am I better off getting from Price Japan or from one of the resellers on Amazon? or doesn't really matter?
> Shipping to Australia if it makes any difference
> 
> Thanks


 
 See if you can get a secondhand MK1.
  
 I'am in Melbourne and I got one recently.


----------



## jibzilla

deuter said:


> See if you can get a secondhand MK1.
> 
> I'am in Melbourne and I got one recently.


 
  
 I enjoyed the mk1 much more than a sz3 model I had. I would use hifishark to find the best deal on a 007mk1-2.


----------



## rgs9200m

I prefer the current Mk 2 version of the SR007 to the Mk 1 after owning both for years. Spritzer recommended the Mk2 version to me, and I feel he was right.


----------



## maximal112

I was looking for the MkII as that's the one I have heard, haven't had the chance of listening to mk1 but from what I've read and what I heard when I listened to them the mk2 seems to be what I was after


----------



## joseph69

rgs9200m said:


> I prefer the current Mk 2 version of the SR007 to the Mk 1 after owning both for years. Spritzer recommended the Mk2 version to me, and I feel he was right.


 
 SZ3?


----------



## rgs9200m

joseph69 said:


> SZ3?


 
 Yep, I have the SZ3 and love it.


----------



## deuter

rgs9200m said:


> Yep, I have the SZ3 and love it.




I have sz3 too, very detailed and laid back at the same time.


----------



## zolkis

rgs9200m said:


> I prefer the current Mk 2 version of the SR007 to the Mk 1 after owning both for years. Spritzer recommended the Mk2 version to me, and I feel he was right.


 
  
 For the balance: I prefer the Mk1 over the current Mk2 (I have made a detailed comparison here a while back); in short, for more fullness in mids, slightly better fluidity and more openness (plus slightly better bass extension at the price of less bass boost around 80-120 Hz). That said, I can totally understand the love for the Mk2, especially for jazz and small chamber (in my case). However, a friend said the Mk1 sounds more like "the other Stax" (meaning the Lambdas and the 009, i.e. more "hi-fi" if someone can say so - with reserves wrt the 009), but in his opinion the current Mk2 is the special one. Each with their own.
  
 That said, I could "voice" my Mk1 (by ear pad mods) to sound very, very close to the SR-Omega (except the Omega was still brighter), something I could not achieve with the Mk2, as I bumped into limitations, meaning it just sounded a better self with the mods, rather than improving to a new level. So the (modded) Mk2 went and I kept the (modded) Mk1.
  
 But in unmodded form, I'd also recommend the Mk2 - it's probably going to satisfy more people out of the box (with a matching good amp).


----------



## plektret

Are people getting their orders from Pricejapan now???? My PAID order from June 2016 is still missing. Not a single reply to my emails. I have since then ordered the items from a authorized Stax dealer, which means I ended up paying for L700/353x TWICE!!! Is it just me they are ignoring??


----------



## AudioDrag

plektret said:


> Are people getting their orders from Pricejapan now???? My PAID order from June 2016 is still missing. Not a single reply to my emails. I have since then ordered the items from a authorized Stax dealer, which means I ended up paying for L700/353x TWICE!!! Is it just me they are ignoring??


 

 That would be an absolutely interesting question for me too...
  
 Not knowing anything about the problems of last year (only reading about the positive experiences from the past), I've ordered a SR-009 from PriceJapan on 4th January this year and payed via bank transfer (yes I know, silly me
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). Never got any reply from them after my payment... The advisor of their German Kebhana bank told me their account is still active (money is transfered regularely).
  
 I really don't know whether I should still wait or start a lawsuit against PriceJapan.
  
 In the meantime I've ordered (and received) a SR-007 MK2 from SmartImports. Their service was great and I love my SR-007 (powered from my DIY KGSSHV Carbon / Chord DAVE). But nevertheless I miss 'my' SR-009...


----------



## XSAMURAI

plektret said:


> Are people getting their orders from Pricejapan now???? My PAID order from June 2016 is still missing. Not a single reply to my emails. I have since then ordered the items from a authorized Stax dealer, which means I ended up paying for L700/353x TWICE!!! Is it just me they are ignoring??


 
 i had the same issue , I've received my order after 36 Days !


----------



## Crashem

xsamurai said:


> i had the same issue , I've received my order after 36 Days !


 

 When did you order?


----------



## XSAMURAI

crashem said:


> When did you order?


 
 13 May 2016 i've ordered , after 23 days june 4, they're answer my email to send my package tomorrow and it took another 8 days to send and it was around June 18 i've received the package from fedex
  
 worst internet shoping experience in my entire life


----------



## plektret

xsamurai said:


> 13 May 2016 i've ordered , after 23 days june 4, they're answer my email to send my package tomorrow and it took another 8 days to send and it was around June 18 i've received the package from fedex
> 
> worst internet shoping experience in my entire life



 

You're lucky, I've waited 8 MONTHS (!!!!!!!) without getting what I ordered nor my money back (paid by bank wire). I've given up.


----------



## rgs9200m

Yep, I've never heard a modded Stax, so that's the source my impressions. I should have mentioned that in my praise of the SR007 Mk2. Thanks for pointing this out.


----------



## zolkis

rgs9200m said:


> Yep, I've never heard a modded Stax




Fair enough, modded items don't qualify for meaningful comparisons, so no need to mention anything. 

Slightly off-topic, but how does the 007 Mk2 compare to your Z1R or the HEKv2?


----------



## rgs9200m

Well, a 3 way comparo is not a short story, but here goes:
 SR007 Mk2 w/KGSShv-mini:
 Still the detail champ with sonorous, transparent bass to die for that is very well integrated. And the speed is great in things that highlight speed like percussion. Still subject to some upper-mid glare from digital when it's prominent in the recording. A revealing sound.
  
 HEKv2: Almost as much speed and detail as the Stax, but not quite in A/B comparison. Images are less full-bodied than the Stax. But the HEKv2 is smoother and more liquid and not as sensitive to digital glare (but some glare still comes through sometimes), and there is an overall silky quality to the sound that is very pleasant and seems like a coloration, but it's a very musical one that is relaxing. But it is less immediate that the Stax, so that the Stax feels like a wall is gone and you are right there with the performance. But the HEKv2 sounds very continuous with no grain at all and the images are refined and float nicely from the ether. It's an atmospheric sound that I would describe as very sophisticated.
  
 Sony ZR1: Definitely in the dynamic camp with a big bold but very transparent bass that I do not find overwhelming at all. It creates a large hall-like 3D space, larger than the other 2 headphones. The images are not as detailed, but are very believable so I don't feel as if anything is missing.
  
 But most important is that, somehow, it handles without pain every recording thrown at it, even ones that suffer from digital glare (especially shrill vocals) beautifully. They are not muffled but somehow transformed as if they were put through some magic DAC with the most sophisticated processing algorithm ever made to produce a genuine analog sound. But still, an amazing amount of texture and spatial information get through, even speed. So the Sony ZR1 is to me the opposite of ruthlessly revealing. But it amazingly _is _still revealing and nothing is cloaked.
  
 So while the Stax really struts its stuff and has supreme transparency with extra good recordings like DSD, the ZR1 spins cloth into gold with any music, as if it had its own built in processor.


----------



## zolkis

Yes, I also have similar impressions about the HEK(v1) and Z1R, but it was the HEK(v1) that sounded harder in the mids than my 007 Mk1. Need to check out the HEKv2.
  
 Anyway it is the Z1R that is more appealing: even though it's a "view" over music, in some sort of DSP'd fashion perhaps, it is quite pleasant, while feeling less colored than say the stock TH900. A comparison with my modded TH900 is overdue. 
  
 However, based on these impressions my 007 Mk1 is still a keeper. Perhaps will try a new 009 again, allegedly they got better silently - but this is a rumor tendency with all high end headphones that have received some critiques, so I am reluctant betting money on it, once I am happy with the modded 007 Mk1. The thought itching me is to try the 009 with 007 cables or "lower" purely copper cables... I've heard that actually may improve their sound. Again, too expensive to just buy and try, besides, cable change on Stax is likely not a trivial thing.


----------



## rgs9200m

Zolkis, your impressions are exactly what I have. And yes, I too keep my 009 as something that still has great potential, even though I usually turn to my other headphones.
 Best to you.


----------



## MacedonianHero

zolkis said:


> Yes, I also have similar impressions about the HEK(v1) and Z1R, but it was the HEK(v1) that sounded harder in the mids than my 007 Mk1. Need to check out the HEKv2.
> 
> Anyway it is the Z1R that is more appealing: even though it's a "view" over music, in some sort of DSP'd fashion perhaps, it is quite pleasant, while feeling less colored than say the stock TH900. A comparison with my modded TH900 is overdue.
> 
> However, based on these impressions my 007 Mk1 is still a keeper. Perhaps will try a new 009 again, allegedly they got better silently - but this is a rumor tendency with all high end headphones that have received some critiques, so I am reluctant betting money on it, once I am happy with the modded 007 Mk1. The thought itching me is to try the 009 with 007 cables or "lower" purely copper cables... I've heard that actually may improve their sound. Again, too expensive to just buy and try, besides, cable change on Stax is likely not a trivial thing.


 
  
 The HE1000 V2 has indeed improved  in the mids and has added back the dynamics and punch that I felt the V1 needed. 
  


rgs9200m said:


> Zolkis, your impressions are exactly what I have. And yes, I too keep my 009 as something that still has great potential, even though I usually turn to my other headphones.
> Best to you.


 
 Actually my SR-009s get plenty of head time...owned them for about 4.5 years now and they still amaze me!


----------



## rgs9200m

I spent some time tonight listening to both the Z1R and HE1000v2, and I do have to say that the Hifiman does exceed in midrange/vocal texture, with  more organic smoothness and silkyness and liquidity, just more natural and refined.
 And it also has more immediacy and is a more intimate listening portrayal.
  
 So I am giving a big thumbs up to the HE1000v2. 
 I am using my tube amp for the Hifiman and the ZR1.
  
 The SR007 is also fine, but I am using the solid state KGSShv-mini, so that may be an unfair comparison vs the tube-driven Hifiman.
 But I feel the HE1000v2 and the SR007 are in the same sonic camp.


----------



## Rossliew

rgs9200m said:


> The SR007 is also fine, but I am using the solid state KGSShv-mini, so that may be an unfair comparison vs the tube-driven Hifiman.
> But I feel the HE1000v2 and the SR007 are in the same sonic camp.




Could you share some impressions of the sonic signature of the kgsshv mini?


----------



## rgs9200m

The KGSShv-mini is a nicely warm-side-of-neutral amp that is very good with SR009s and the SR007mk2. It is non-shrill with vocals, a problem that always bedeviled me with my Stax amps, even my retubed 007t (versions i and ii).
 It has what I consider brilliant bass, extremely solid and controlled. I was thinking about moving up to a Carbon, but I am leaving well enough alone since there seems to be a synergy in my system with an EMM dac and *both* the SR007 and 009 phones.
 It is especially brilliant with DSD, a to-die-for sound with detail,control, and musicality. It's a real bargain for the price I paid, but it feels end-game to me, not just good for the price.
 Mine is the 400v Sanyo version, actually considered not the best out there, but it sure sounds good. Nicely non-fatiguing but it gets down to the essence of the music and sounds very natural.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks for the impressions. Sounds like a tonality I would enjoy listening to. Now if only a good deal on a used unit pops up together with an 007 and I'd be done. No point chasing for the Carbon which is unobtainable for me now.


----------



## rgs9200m

Sure. Another thing is my mini doesn't get hot, just warmish, which I think is bonus. I heard the full size KGSShv and Carbon get hot (but I may be wrong on that, so someone correct me if I am).


----------



## Tinkerer

I'm running a 450V Carbon @ 15mA w/ GRLV in my Circlotron case and it barely gets warm. It's a real big case though.


----------



## Rossliew

Does the grlv power supply make a noticeable difference in the sound?


----------



## Tinkerer

Hard to tell. Maybe a tiny bit better imaging and separation. It's very slight. The 1718/1719 15V supply is just fine. I wouldn't get worked up about it.
  
 The main advantage for me is it was closer to 15VDC exactly (14.98 +/-) and didn't shift one bit under load, so I feel better about it powering the circlotron output boards.


----------



## JimL11

rgs9200m said:


> Sure. Another thing is my mini doesn't get hot, just warmish, which I think is bonus. I heard the full size KGSShv and Carbon get hot (but I may be wrong on that, so someone correct me if I am).


 
  
  


tinkerer said:


> I'm running a 450V Carbon @ 15mA w/ GRLV in my Circlotron case and it barely gets warm. It's a real big case though.


 
  
 A little physics here guys.  IIRC the KGSSHv runs at 5-10 mA/output device, with +/-450-500 PS that runs between 18-40 watts.  The Carbon runs between 15-20 mA/device with +/-450 volt supplies, that runs 54-72 watts.  There are two output devices per channel, but the constant current loads burn up as much watts as the output devices.  The front end uses up another 5-6 watts. For the same size heatsink the more current is running through the output stage, the hotter it gets, so if you build everything in the same case, the Carbon is hotter - but there is no rule saying you have to do that.  OTOH, the bigger your heatsinks, the cooler it runs - purely a matter of the build.  A KGSSHV in a small case with small heatsinks may run hotter than a Carbon in a large case with big heatsinks.


----------



## JimL11

rossliew said:


> Does the grlv power supply make a noticeable difference in the sound?


 

 No personal experience but here are a couple other perspectives from the other web site:
  
 johnwmclean:  "Audibly a worthwhile outlay as well."
  
 kevin gilmore:  "Surprisingly the GRLV power supply makes a bigger difference than I had thought."


----------



## yates7592

My headinclouds 20mA Carbon barely gets warm.


----------



## Rossliew

Does anyone know if Birgir's builds carry the GRLV PS? I notice from the other site that most other DIY builds have the GRLV but haven't heard of it mentioned in Birgir's own builds..or perhaps he has his own version of it?


----------



## Pahani

maximal112 said:


> Quick question for those that have imported 007 mkII from Japan, am I better off getting from Price Japan or from one of the resellers on Amazon? or doesn't really matter?
> Shipping to Australia if it makes any difference
> 
> Thanks


 
  
  


plektret said:


> Are people getting their orders from Pricejapan now???? My PAID order from June 2016 is still missing. Not a single reply to my emails. I have since then ordered the items from a authorized Stax dealer, which means I ended up paying for L700/353x TWICE!!! Is it just me they are ignoring??


 
  
  


audiodrag said:


> That would be an absolutely interesting question for me too...
> 
> Not knowing anything about the problems of last year (only reading about the positive experiences from the past), I've ordered a SR-009 from PriceJapan on 4th January this year and payed via bank transfer (yes I know, silly me
> 
> ...


 
  
  


xsamurai said:


> 13 May 2016 i've ordered , after 23 days june 4, they're answer my email to send my package tomorrow and it took another 8 days to send and it was around June 18 i've received the package from fedex
> 
> worst internet shoping experience in my entire life


 
 I recently tried to order L700 from PriceJapan. Like around 2 weeks ago. PayPal blocked the transaction, saying there was a problem with PJ's account.
  
 In my opinion, PriceJapan is worse than defunct....I strongly suspect my failed transaction with them resulted in a bogus Phishing E-mail impersonating PayPal (this time claiming MY account was suspended.....and oh, click this link....NOT)
  
 I suggest staying away from PriceJapan. I think they've either been hacked, or are blatantly fraudulent now.


----------



## AudioDrag

pahani said:


> I suggest staying away from PriceJapan. I think they've either been hacked, or are blatantly fraudulent now.


 
  
 Yeah, I fully agree with you!
  
 The site is kept active by 'someone'. And their bank account is active too. Since PriceJapan (Kaneda) seems to have worked trustworthy for about 14 years (at least that was the information I had before I placed my order), I guess some criminal minds in South Korea (this seems to be the sites origin now) are running the site now with fraudulent intention.
  
 I did speak with the advisor of their German Kebhana bank account and I did explain the situation to her. She tried to get in contact with the account owner for about 2 weeks but she failed. Money was still transferred on this account but she wasn't able to get any response from the account owner. Did look somewhat strange for her too but she wasn't willing (allowed) to give me additional information about the account owner. It would take a judgment of the court to get the owners information or at least to stop transactions on this account.
  
 I think there are many victims and since the items they 'sell' are rather expensive, a fair amount of money is at stake. Maybe the money of us (who have already payed) is lost, but there will be more victims if no action is taken.
  
 I think there would be more hope for success of a lawsuit if there's a number of victims. The police eventually won't take much care about a single case...
  
 So maybe a first step would be to create a list of victims. Please PM me (or post here) if you are interested in actions against these criminals.
  
 Martin


----------



## Pahani

I suggest contacting PayPal. If they're blocking transactions to the site now, they're aware of a problem.
  
 The phishing E-mail I received was surprisingly sophisticated......had it not been directed to my Spam folder, it was otherwise realistic enough I can see a fair number of people falling for it.
  
 I really mean it, it's scary how legit it looked! I forwarded it to PayPal though, and they confirmed it as fake.


----------



## AudioDrag

pahani said:


> I suggest contacting PayPal. If they're blocking transactions to the site now, they're aware of a problem.
> 
> The phishing E-mail I received was surprisingly sophisticated......had it not been directed to my Spam folder, it was otherwise realistic enough I can see a fair number of people falling for it.
> 
> I really mean it, it's scary how legit it looked! I forwarded it to PayPal though, and they confirmed it as fake.


 

 That's an interesting idea. Though I'm not sure if PayPal is allowed to give me any information about the account holder. But every little detail may count in a lawsuit. Even if they only confirm the blocked account 'info@pricejapan.com'.
  
 Regarding you pishing mail. Are you sure that it was related to PriceJapan? Was it sent by them? If so, could you please forward it to me?


----------



## DolphinG

Another question about STAX amp. (SRM-313)
 It's now set for 100V and I wanna convert it to 220V.
 But I never saw this kind of transformer with colorless wires.
 Can anybody help me how should I connect these wires to make it run on 220V environment?


----------



## Tinkerer

That's pretty neato, they didn't disconnect any of the leads. Take off the cover plate so we can see how all those wires are connected on the board underneath.


----------



## DolphinG

tinkerer said:


> That's pretty neato, they didn't disconnect any of the leads. Take off the cover plate so we can see how all those wires are connected on the board underneath.


 

  

  

  

  

  

  
 Here are pictures of the wires connected.


----------



## kevin gilmore

it can be rewired the same as all of the other stax units with that jumper board as long as the transformer wires are not cut.
  
 does not look like they are cut.


----------



## DolphinG

kevin gilmore said:


> it can be rewired the same as all of the other stax units with that jumper board as long as the transformer wires are not cut.
> 
> does not look like they are cut.


 
  

  

  
 Thanks for your advice.
 Do you mean that these two circuits basically same? (Second board is from SRM-717)
 Are they arrayed in same order? (BRN, BRY.. those colored wires)


----------



## kevin gilmore

Need better picture of the board, but all stax are identical circuits

Unsolder the 2 jumpers

Use an ohmmeter to find the pair of 0,100,120v windings

Wire one side of ac line to appropriate 0. (This one should be hard wired)
Then 120v to 0 of other winding, and then 120v of that winding to the fuse

Will look up other pictures I have in a few hours


----------



## DolphinG

Thanks for your help.
 Will be waiting for pics to be updated.


----------



## JimL11

rossliew said:


> Does anyone know if Birgir's builds carry the GRLV PS? I notice from the other site that most other DIY builds have the GRLV but haven't heard of it mentioned in Birgir's own builds..or perhaps he has his own version of it?


 

 The mini units definitely do not (no room).  AFAIK they use the mini-KGBH PS which is an updated version of the original PS published when the BH design came out in the  2000s, which has the 7815/7915 low voltage supplies.


----------



## kevin gilmore

I think this is right  (yeah the text is small)
  
 top row blue brown grey purple green white yellow
 second row 6 5 4 3 2 1
 third row 2 1
  
 for 220v disconnect both jumpers
  
 move the white wire to pin 6
  
 add one jumper between 3 and 4
  
 for 120v
 white wire goes to 3rd row pin 1
 jumpers 1 to 4
 3 to 6


----------



## DolphinG

kevin gilmore said:


> for 220v disconnect both jumpers
> 
> move the white wire to pin 6
> 
> add one jumper between 3 and 4


 

  
 Thanks for kind and detailed explanation.
 Then this is what I should do.
 Disconnect two grey jumpers (Red X) and add jumper between pin #3 and #4 (Yellow line)
 And move white line to pin #6 (Yellow arrow)


----------



## kevin gilmore

and measure the resistance at the power plug before and after
 (with the power switch on)


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

If you fed an SR009 with a BHSE and Yggdrasil, _of those three _(source taken off the table), what would be the weakest component in the chain, the bottleneck?


----------



## Sorrodje

bosiemoncrieff said:


> If you fed an SR009 with a BHSE and Yggdrasil, _of those three _(source taken off the table), what would be the weakest component in the chain, the bottleneck?




our ears?


----------



## mhnorheim

Hey!
 Sorry for barging in, but I have a question regarding a pair of STAX SR-80's i recently came into possession of.
  
 Performancewise I have no problems with these, but the cord might be singing its last verse, having been chewn on by a rodent some years ago.
 I have so far been unable to track down a replacement cord for SR-80 however, I have seen to some newer models, that also carry a 5 pin socket but have too many leads out, and to headset.
 SR-80 uses 5 pins, four leads - two for each element. I have found cords with 5 pins, six leads - three for each.
  
 So the question is, would I be able to use one of these newer cords and jury rig it to function as it should?
 For reference, one of the cords in question is a cord assembly SR202( for SR207).
  
 Have a nice day!


----------



## weasel1979

.


----------



## weasel1979

sorrodje said:


> our ears?


 
 haha
  


bosiemoncrieff said:


> If you fed an SR009 with a BHSE and Yggdrasil, _of those three _(source taken off the table), what would be the weakest component in the chain, the bottleneck?


 
  
Of course these are all beloved gadgets, but I think of these three, the DAC would be the most controversial item in terms of: some say there are other, better sounding alternatives, e.g. Chord Dave etc...


----------



## Tinkerer

mhnorheim said:


> Hey!
> 
> Sorry for barging in, but I have a question regarding a pair of STAX SR-80's i recently came into possession of.
> 
> ...



 



SR-80 is an electret. It doesn't use bias since it has a permanent charge.All you gotta do is connect the left and right +/- pins from a regular cord and not bother with the 2 bias connections. Might be safer to cut the bias pin off the plug as well.


----------



## mhnorheim

> SR-80 is an electret. It doesn't use bias since it has a permanent charge.All you gotta do is connect the left and right +/- pins from a regular cord and not bother with the 2 bias connections. Might be safer to cut the bias pin off the plug as well.


 

 So if I understand you correctly, using these newer replacement cables are not a problem as long as I endcap the bias leads and possibly remove the bias pin on the plug?
  
 Thanks for the quick reply by the way!


----------



## findthomas

plektret said:


> Are people getting their orders from Pricejapan now???? My PAID order from June 2016 is still missing. Not a single reply to my emails. I have since then ordered the items from a authorized Stax dealer, which means I ended up paying for L700/353x TWICE!!! Is it just me they are ignoring??




Newbie question: who are the authorized STAX dealers in the US (who buy from Stax Japan instead of from Yama)?

I've purchased through PJ before (very satisfactory), but that was a couple of years ago. Sad to see they're non-performing.


----------



## rhenom

ledzepp said:


> Newbie question: who are the authorized STAX dealers in the US (who buy from Stax Japan instead of from Yama)?
> 
> I've purchased through PJ before (very satisfactory), but that was a couple of years ago. Sad to see they're non-performing.


 
 I bought my Stax SR-L700 from www.headamp.com with no problems, they are based in the US.


----------



## zolkis

bosiemoncrieff said:


> If you fed an SR009 with a BHSE and Yggdrasil, _of those three _(source taken off the table), what would be the weakest component in the chain, the bottleneck?


 
  
 "Of those three"... come on. Choose any two of them .
  
 Joke apart, the recording would be the weakest component in your system, followed by the source (and you can't just take them off the table!).
  
 Anyway, take a pill if you're not happy with that trio...  But humans are unsatisfiable, they will want and want... if not better, then at least different. So, please do yourself the favor and go to acoustic concerts once a week (or in a while) in a good hall. I guarantee that will make you happier than switching equipment .
  
 If it comes to that, IMHO the BHSE+009 is the stronger two to keep, unless you'd prefer the 007 (which I do, albeit with modded pads). For the DAC you have more choices.
  
 I almost said the Gumby might be a better match in that system, but you'd hear the slightly better resolution of the Yggy, and it's maybe your thing (once you experience it). You could also try the Holo Spring. I am a bit skeptical the Dave would give you that much more, so if you're not completely happy with the trio, perhaps I'd buy a 007 as well (which I think might have better synergy with the Yggy and BHSE with some music) and you can still buy a lot of recordings on the money needed to have a Dave. (Why buy music? IMHO my CDs and LPs still sound better than lossless streaming, so it's subjective.) Or if you want to explore different, and don't have many high-res files, try the BHSE+009 with a really good implementation of the TDA1541 or PCM56/63. Options are many, perhaps too many.


----------



## astrostar59

zolkis said:


> bosiemoncrieff said:
> 
> 
> > If you fed an SR009 with a BHSE and Yggdrasil, _of those three _(source taken off the table), what would be the weakest component in the chain, the bottleneck?
> ...


 
 IMO the BHSE and 009s (inc my 009s and Carbon) absolutely need a super smooth DAC to be happy long term IMO. Get the right DAC and wow, fantastic combo. Get it wrong, and you will be changing DACs like your underpants.
  
 Best to take your BHSE and 009s to demos to know what is possible. Won't say which DAC as that is a personal thing.
  
 I am to hear the HE-1 this summer, but IMO Senn has probably done just that, got a DAC and amp and phone combo that works to the max TOGETHER. They spend shed loads of hours tuning the system for sure.  That is a powerful thing to be able to do.
  
 Yeah, amps should be wire with gain, HPs full Frequency response, DACs should sound the same Bla Bla. But I would say 99% of folk who post here on a regular basis have found that is not the truth. Some DACs that are totally superb may well not fit the BHSE / 009 combo IMO. If said DAC is a detail freak (exaggeration to make my point) it will not go well with the 009s. Like relationships, just because 2 folk have the same interests doesn't mean they will get married!
  
 Anyway, if all products dovetailed perfectly we would have nothing to talk about!!!


----------



## rgs9200m

zolkis said:


> (Why buy music? IMHO my CDs and LPs still sound better than lossless streaming, so it's subjective.) Or if you want to explore different, and don't have many high-res files, try the BHSE+009 with a really good implementation of the TDA1541 or PCM56/63. Options are many, perhaps too many.


 
 Yeah, I thought I was the last holdout who think my CDs sound better than streaming. I thought I was imagining things. It's a pain dealing with discs, but I like the sound.


----------



## astrostar59

rgs9200m said:


> zolkis said:
> 
> 
> > (Why buy music? IMHO my CDs and LPs still sound better than lossless streaming, so it's subjective.) Or if you want to explore different, and don't have many high-res files, try the BHSE+009 with a really good implementation of the TDA1541 or PCM56/63. Options are many, perhaps too many.
> ...


 

 I dunno. I depends. The server used, how optimised, the software and transfer protocol. I am beyond my CD transport now, but that was a 3K CEC transport unit (no DAC), so not top top drawer. And my CD rips as AIFFs on my server can be beaten by 'some' Tidal material. It seems a bit inconsistent. For example some Tidal of the same tracks and mix sound better, others a bit flat and cold, less 3D.
  
 I have no idea why that is. But quite possibly the streaming services will continue to improve, MQA is looming (in Audirvana). It is now (for me) impossible to go back to spinning CDs, and even more impossible to go back to Vinyl, and before that tape.
  
 MQA from what I understand, is a lifeline to us audio fans, it has the artist and studio involvement in signing off the masters (according to a recent Darko review). I am convinced some Redbook and even HQ files have been messed with post studio release. Maybe that is why there is the inconsistent quality going on?


----------



## zolkis

.off
 The difference I hear between my CD player and all the digital transport systems I have tried (including various USB including the latest XMOS, Ethernet/RedNet, optical, SD/DAP etc solutions) is the same and the same:
  
 the CD player has smoother/fleshier sound with better bass dynamics, plays in a tiny bit lower register (like more calm and more effortless), in a more relaxed way, and has more realistic sound/stage (evident when piano or saxophone starts to play).
  
 There are differences among the other digital transports, but the CD is consistently different (and IMHO better) in a similar way, and it is not a small difference. That might say that all streaming digital transports share a similar, or common bottleneck.
  
 I have yet to try the new EC Designs DAC with a music server via Ethernet, that is not based on USB or even I2S input, but a proprietary bus, allegedly that one sounds closest to the analog (not CD) since it has the least measured noise spectrum (compared to I2S and SPDIF). It's not available yet. Pair it with a Theta transport, or even an Ethernet streamer, and might save the day. 
  
 There are so many claims and theories that looks like digital sources are not any easier to do well than analog sources, and streaming is not easier to do right than optical pickups/CDs. It's just a different complexity distribution. We can agree there are many solutions that sound very close to each other, but for me a CD player is still the best digital source.
  
 However, streaming is easier to consume and fits better the contemporary lifestyle (sharing, discovering etc). So I expect that better (e.g. Ethernet/IP based) audio interfaces and standards will emerge. However, that is only part of the equation.
  
 IMHO -- and we go into philosophy a.k.a. mambo-jambo -- a good sounding system will always be designed end-to-end, from music to music (if not from brain to brain , involving the least amount of (acoustic) information processing, or better said, the total source-to-brain loss coming from it. I believe that is the key, and we haven't really cracked that yet with a sum-of-parts approach.
  
 Sorry for the OT. It's my private opinion. It might be wrong .


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

zolkis said:


> I have yet to try the new EC Designs DAC with a music server via Ethernet, that is not based on USB or even I2S input, but a proprietary bus, allegedly that one sounds closest to the analog (not CD) since it has the least measured noise spectrum (compared to I2S and SPDIF). It's not available yet. Pair it with a Theta transport, or even an Ethernet streamer, and might save the day.


 
  
 I've been reading their webpage today, some people I know and trust heard the Mosaic T and was blown away, this new DAC should be even better.
 But it's a shame it only has RCA connectors...they should release a version without the headphone amp and the volume control, and with black chassis option and XLR connectors...that thing could be a winner.


----------



## RAFA

Is there an alternative to the small SRM-252s?
  
 I was thinking of buying an L300 alone and the amp I would buy second hand from an European platform. Is this advisable? Or should I just buy the 3100 set?
  
 EDIT: I have a Fostex HP A8 DAC.


----------



## Michgelsen

rafa said:


> Is there an alternative to the small SRM-252s?
> 
> I was thinking of buying an L300 alone and the amp I would buy second hand from an European platform. Is this advisable? Or should I just buy the 3100 set?
> 
> EDIT: I have a Fostex HP A8 DAC.


 

 ​Sure, good idea, why not? There is a whole family of small Stax amps, of which the 252s is the latest one. The previous ones where SRM-X, SRM-Xh, SRM-Xs, SRM-212, and these should work as well. There's also the headphone-stand-shaped SRM-310. If size isn't a concern you can pick any second-hand Stax amp with pro bias of course.


----------



## findthomas

Thx rhenom-- I will ping them.


----------



## Pokemonn

My 009 arrived my home today from stax factory. been repaired.
 wow weird my 009 sound much much darker than before lol. maybe due to i changed my setups everyday...


----------



## maximal112

Officially ordered my 007s today from smart imports, fingers crossed all goes well and now I begin the waiting game.


----------



## deuter

Where do i get the silicon tips from for the baby Stax.


----------



## RAFA

michgelsen said:


> ​Sure, good idea, why not? There is a whole family of small Stax amps, of which the 252s is the latest one. The previous ones where SRM-X, SRM-Xh, SRM-Xs, SRM-212, and these should work as well. There's also the headphone-stand-shaped SRM-310. If size isn't a concern you can pick any second-hand Stax amp with pro bias of course.




Thank you for the response. I take it for granted, that the latest is also the best sounding.

I may take this step now.


----------



## maddin

Since Saturday, I have these two at home and I am very delighted. With all other headphones I bought I needed some time to get at home used to their signature but with the SR-507 I have the feeling it fits right away. Such a transparency and bass and mids fit just right. The highs depend a bit on the recording. An example are the Radio 1 recordings of elastica. In some songs the drum can be a bit too much and I need to turn the volume down, others (later recordings) are fine.
  
 I have connected my CD player a Marantz 6005 via a RCA cable to the in of the SRM 353X a second RCA cable connects the SRM 353 X to the amplifier of my stereo. When I turn off the Stax amplifier, I first turn the volume to zero and than turn off the Satx amplifier and than the CD player with the headphone connected. However, I have a pop sound in the headphones when I turn of the SRM 353 X. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?
 Thank you for your help.


----------



## Pokemonn

maddin said:


> Since Saturday, I have these two at home and I am very delighted. With all other headphones I bought I needed some time to get at home used to their signature but with the SR-507 I have the feeling it fits right away. Such a transparency and bass and mids fit just right. The highs depend a bit on the recording. An example are the Radio 1 recordings of elastica. In some songs the drum can be a bit too much and I need to turn the volume down, others (later recordings) are fine.
> 
> I have connected my CD player a Marantz 6005 via a RCA cable to the in of the SRM 353X a second RCA cable connects the SRM 353 X to the amplifier of my stereo. When I turn off the Stax amplifier, I first turn the volume to zero and than turn off the Satx amplifier and than the CD player with the headphone connected. However, I have a pop sound in the headphones when I turn of the SRM 353 X. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?
> Thank you for your help.


 

 I also own two Marantz CD6005 units, they sound slightly bright side with Staxes and have edginess/glare. I personally recommend smooth sounding CDP/DAC(Denon CDPs, Chord DACs etc). but it depends on your preferences. so YMMV IMO.


----------



## zolkis

pokemonn said:


> My 009 arrived my home today from stax factory. been repaired.
> wow weird my 009 sound much much darker than before lol. maybe due to i changed my setups everyday...


 
  
 Wow. That deserves some follow-up... could you ask Stax about that?


----------



## Pokemonn

zolkis said:


> pokemonn said:
> 
> 
> > My 009 arrived my home today from stax factory. been repaired.
> ...


 

 No i haven't ask them yet. i guess it maybe due to my recent upstream gear changes ...I believe my 009 drivers have not changed. only flat cable has replaced to new one. all i did is i changed a DAC(from fostex HP-A8 to chord Mojo) and recalibrate SRM-727A's bias and balance pods(TVR1 and 2) ultra precisely with DMM(0 ~ few mV range), it may make sound darker and smoother? but i don't know the reason at all.


----------



## HiFiIsExpensive

pokemonn said:


> No i haven't. i guess it maybe due to my recent upstream gear changes ...I believe my 009 drivers have not changed. only flat cable has replaced to new one. all i did is i changed a DAC(from fostex HP-A8 to chord Mojo) and recalibrate SRM-727A's bias and balance pods(TVR1 and 2) ultra precisely with DMM, it may make sound darker and smoother? but i don't know the reason at all.




Have you tried it with other amps like the SRM007T2?


----------



## Pokemonn

hifiisexpensive said:


> pokemonn said:
> 
> 
> > No i haven't. i guess it maybe due to my recent upstream gear changes ...I believe my 009 drivers have not changed. only flat cable has replaced to new one. all i did is i changed a DAC(from fostex HP-A8 to chord Mojo) and recalibrate SRM-727A's bias and balance pods(TVR1 and 2) ultra precisely with DMM, it may make sound darker and smoother? but i don't know the reason at all.
> ...


 

 No i haven't try it yet.
 you can get about info how to calibrate them from here HF wiki.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/a/adjusting-bias-on-stax-tube-amplifiers


----------



## Don Quichotte

maddin said:


> However, I have a pop sound in the headphones when I turn of the SRM 353 X. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong? Thank you for your help.


 
   
It's normal, my SRM 313 does the same.


----------



## astrostar59

don quichotte said:


> maddin said:
> 
> 
> > However, I have a pop sound in the headphones when I turn of the SRM 353 X. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong? Thank you for your help.
> ...


 
 A point. I unplug my Stax HPs before I switch off the amp. Also I tend to leave my amp on a lot of the time, and simply plug back in the HPs when I want to listen. I am not sure leaving the amp on with the bias supply going to the HP 24/7 is so good. But the amp needs to be warmed up to sound it's best.


----------



## JimL11

For anyone that is interested, there is a HeadAmp KGSS-DX on ebay:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/192110146358?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Also a Woo WES:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/262862948306?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Both are 7 day auctions so the price isn't set.  You can see a review of the latter on InnerFidelity.  FWIW, Tyll has a KGSS similar to the DX for reviewing electrostatic headphones.


----------



## maddin

don quichotte said:


> It's normal, my SRM 313 does the same.


 

 Thank you for your comment, Don Quichotte. Do you unplugg your headphones before you turn off the amplifier like astrostar59 does?
 I found in this thread that the sound is coming from the discharging of the capacitors and on another site that it can't do damage because the signal will be always lower than the maximum output of the amp.


----------



## yates7592

I also unplug my 009 (and turn volume to zero before unplug) before switching amp off. Reverse procedure on start again the next day.


----------



## deuter

deuter said:


> Where do i get the silicon tips from for the baby Stax.



 


So no one bought tips for baby stax


----------



## bearFNF

deuter said:


> deuter said:
> 
> 
> > Where do i get the silicon tips from for the baby Stax.
> ...


 

 A search of this thread gives this result:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/11010#post_13233395


----------



## deuter

bearfnf said:


> A search of this thread gives this result:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/11010#post_13233395


 
 I found a local distributor who had a pair, thanks.


----------



## Don Quichotte

maddin said:


> Do you unplugg your headphones before you turn off the amplifier like astrostar59 does?
> I found in this thread that the sound is coming from the discharging of the capacitors and on another site that it can't do damage because the signal will be always lower than the maximum output of the amp.


 
 No, I don't, not on purpose. I mean, I always unplug the headphones and short the pins with my finger after listening in order to discharge the diaphragm, and also I always turn off the amp (it's true that it sounds better after warming up, though), but it doesn't matter if I unplug the phones before or after turning off the amp.


----------



## Pahani

jiml11 said:


> For anyone that is interested, there is a HeadAmp KGSS-DX on ebay:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/192110146358?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> ...


 
 The KGSS-DX on eBay is being sold by a Head-Fi'er.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/837680/fs-headamp-kgss-dx-in-awesome-shape
  
 Just purchased L700 and SRM-1Mk2 from Bill, great guy  I saw his eBay listings first, then stumbled across him here.


----------



## rockytopwiz

So as I was anticipating buying the new monoprice monolith headphones today. Then I said fux it and bought a srs-3100 system off eBay instead.

It's being imported from Japan. The seller messaged me letting me know I would need a transformer, then I noticed in z reviews review he leaves a link for a US power brick. Will I need both of these items? Thanks for any responses.


----------



## Pahani

rockytopwiz said:


> So as I was anticipating buying the new monoprice monolith headphones today. Then I said fux it and bought a srs-3100 system off eBay instead.
> 
> It's being imported from Japan. The seller messaged me letting me know I would need a transformer, then I noticed in z reviews review he leaves a link for a US power brick. Will I need both of these items? Thanks for any responses.


 
 The 3100 system should include both the L300 earspeakers and the SRM-252S amp. The only problem buying from overseas, is that the wall-wart will be for 100V Japanese voltage.
  
 You can either purchase a step-down voltage converter off eBay or Amazon, and use the stock wall-wart that comes with your system. OR purchase the Jameco wall wart that Zeos linked.
  
 Either will work fine. I've been using the Jameco wall wart for @ 8 months now with no issues.


----------



## rockytopwiz

pahani said:


> The 3100 system should include both the L300 earspeakers and the SRM-252S amp. The only problem buying from overseas, is that the wall-wart will be for 100V Japanese voltage.
> 
> You can either purchase a step-down voltage converter off eBay or Amazon, and use the stock wall-wart that comes with your system. OR purchase the Jameco wall wart that Zeos linked.
> 
> Either will work fine. I've been using the Jameco wall wart for @ 8 months now with no issues.




Thank you thank you thank you for the response! Much appreciated, ordering one now!!


----------



## rockytopwiz

I've already got some zmf pads, may try and finangle them over the stock ones or I guess order a set of the pad adapters from socas audio, they are the only ones I have seen available so far. Plan on trying the stock pads, but hey I do like to be comfortable.

Does anyone use seahorse case's for their stax? Seems like it would be a good idea with the condensation warnings I have heard. Or could anyone reccomend another case?


----------



## Pahani

rockytopwiz said:


> I've already got some zmf pads, may try and finangle them over the stock ones or I guess order a set of the pad adapters from socas audio, they are the only ones I have seen available so far. Plan on trying the stock pads, but hey I do like to be comfortable.
> 
> Does anyone use seahorse case's for their stax? Seems like it would be a good idea with the condensation warnings I have heard. Or could anyone reccomend another case?


 
 A little birdie told me the Modhouse guy had his hands on a pair of L300 recently.I'm guessing another Stax pad adapter is in the works. http://www.modhouseaudio.com/
  
 (LOL noone told me anything...I saw him selling L300 on eBay)


----------



## jigster

Hi guys,

Just wanted to obtain advice regarding tube changing on the Aristaeus.

(1) should I need/decide to replace the stock tubes, do I need to get a matched quad for the ECL86s or 2 matched pairs will do?

(2) Do I need to bias the amp over time?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## purk

jigster said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just wanted to obtain advice regarding tube changing on the Aristaeus.
> 
> ...




You will need a matched quad of ECL86. You only need to rebias when u switch out ECC 83.


----------



## organ_donor

Hi guys I have a question here.

I m being offered with an used original KGBH from headamp at around 2k. I owned a Kgsshv as well and it sounds fantastic with my L700. Will the KGBH an improvement over Kgsshv? And how much improvement from KGBH to BHSE? Hopefully they are close enough to convince me bring it home. Thanks!


----------



## Rossliew

Anyone have a picture of how the original KGBH looks like ?


----------



## astrostar59

rossliew said:


> Anyone have a picture of how the original KGBH looks like ?


 

 I would post Kevin for that. The early Headamp BHSE is something a different amp I believe.
  
 I also believe there is some newer PCBs data from Kevin available for DIY that include using the later GR supplies? If you were interested in building one.


----------



## purk

organ_donor said:


> Hi guys I have a question here.
> 
> I m being offered with an used original KGBH from headamp at around 2k. I owned a Kgsshv as well and it sounds fantastic with my L700. Will the KGBH an improvement over Kgsshv? And how much improvement from KGBH to BHSE? Hopefully they are close enough to convince me bring it home. Thanks!




Should be a great amp but u may want to use some NOS EL34 to bring out the very best performance. I would totally buy it. If u don't like it, I will buy it from u!


----------



## Rossliew

Why did it have that girdle around the tubes? Lol . Would be a happy man if I could build one myself


----------



## organ_donor

purk said:


> Should be a great amp but u may want to use some NOS EL34 to bring out the very best performance. I would totally buy it. If u don't like it, I will buy it from u!


 
  
 Thanks for the advice. There is really minimal info i can find about the original KBGH. People always talk about BHSE a step up from KBGH but I couldn't find a detail comparison online at all.


----------



## justin w.

vandyman said:


> The 20 cent piece of elastic was in a reply to someone about a different model. The SR-009 has a padded leather headpad. The pad has to fit into the slider mechanisms at each side. I'm not that handy, so I really want the factory part. Otherwise, knowing my history with such things, I'll probably snap the plastic or something.
> 
> 
> I'm going to make some additional effort to contact the Canadian distributor. You are right about PriceJapan. I bought from STAX USA specifically for access to parts and for the warranty.  That worked out well! (They were having a rare sale at the time, so it was a smaller price difference, but still.)
> ...




We've been an authorized Stax dealer since 2012!!!!!!!


----------



## JimL11

organ_donor said:


> Hi guys I have a question here.
> 
> I m being offered with an used original KGBH from headamp at around 2k. I owned a Kgsshv as well and it sounds fantastic with my L700. Will the KGBH an improvement over Kgsshv? And how much improvement from KGBH to BHSE? Hopefully they are close enough to convince me bring it home. Thanks!


 

 That's a great price, and HeadAmp builds are top quality.


----------



## Crashem

I don't know if you will see an improvement with KGBH over a KGSSHV. In fact, I believe many would consider it is a downgrade. Kgss and kgbh are different topology but around same generation. KGSSHV was implementation of similar power supply to BHSE to get higher voltage. So KGSSHV would be more comparable to BHSE. I assume given the price that this is original spec blue Hawaii and not the SE version with better power supply.

But it's a great price in any case.


----------



## VandyMan

justin w. said:


> We've been an authorized Stax dealer since 2012!!!!!!!


 

 I said importer, as in a replacement for the defunct STAX USA. Maybe you do import? I knew that you sell STAX headphones, but I was not aware that you service them or sell parts.

 STAX arranged for me to send my headphones to Jack Wu for repair. Besides the headband, I now need the cables rewired. Got out of a chair while wearing my headphones and had my foot on the cable. F! This seems to have created a short on one side.


----------



## billqs

I'm the one with the Headamp KGSS-DX on ebay. I also have it listed here. I'd be happy to discuss offers. I just picked up a KGSSHV so I'm very motivated to move the KGSS to a happy new home! 
  
 Justin, do you do service work on STAX? If so, I'll PM you.
  
 Thanks!
  
 Bill


----------



## jigster

Thanks Purk!


----------



## vapman

Is the Stax USA rep a full time position? Wouldn't mind it


----------



## TraneTime

vandyman said:


> I said importer, as in a replacement for the defunct STAX USA. Maybe you do import? I knew that you sell STAX headphones, but I was not aware that you service them or sell parts.
> 
> STAX arranged for me to send my headphones to Jack Wu for repair. Besides the headband, I now need the cables rewired. Got out of a chair while wearing my headphones and had my foot on the cable. F! This seems to have created a short on one side.


 
 I guess I should consider myself lucky.  I've stepped on the cable twice when standing up and both times it yanked the L700's off my head and crashed to the floor with no apparent damage.


----------



## rockytopwiz

So this just showed up!!!

Now I have to wait a day or two for the frickin power brick to get here.


----------



## deuter

rockytopwiz said:


> So this just showed up!!!
> 
> Now I have to wait a day or two for the frickin power brick to get here.


 
 So a new Amp


----------



## rockytopwiz

deuter said:


> So a new Amp



lol I should have opened that box


----------



## deuter

Nice , enjoy mate.


----------



## vapman

Hmm, where should i get the stax in-ears now that I'm not yet the new Stax USA rep and Yama's is only attractive negative attention.


----------



## HemiSam

I purchased mine on eBay from a highly rated, reputable seller.  Showed up promptly...brand new and perfectly packed / sealed.  Seller was kabukicatjapan. What I really liked is that I didn't have to purchase that small amp (SRM-252S) that they are mostly paired with.  I had no use for the amp.
  
 HS


----------



## Pahani

rockytopwiz said:


> lol I should have opened that box


 
 Enjoy!!! Welcome to the world of Stax, and now you will never leave :devil:


----------



## VandyMan

vapman said:


> Hmm, where should i get the stax in-ears now that I'm not yet the new Stax USA rep and Yama's is only attractive negative attention.


 

 I'm not sure if they carry the in-ears, but there are several STAX dealers in the USA including HeadAmp and Woo Audio.


----------



## vapman

vandyman said:


> I'm not sure if they carry the in-ears, but there are several STAX dealers in the USA including HeadAmp and Woo Audio.


 
 Any reason to order from one versus the other? Never ordered from either so just curious. Thanks


----------



## VandyMan

Quote:


vapman said:


> Any reason to order from one versus the other? Never ordered from either so just curious. Thanks


 

 Both are good companies and I think that they both sell at list price. There are a couple of other US dealers too. Not sure if they all have the same prices.


----------



## Pale Rider

vapman said:


> Any reason to order from one versus the other? Never ordered from either so just curious. Thanks


 

 Both good companies. Have ordered from both. When in stock or drop-ship items, both ship promptly.


----------



## JimL11

Elusive Disc also carries Stax, that's where I got my SR-007 Mk II.


----------



## Jones Bob

I got my SR-207 from Elusive Disc. 
Recommended seller along with Justin at Headamp.


----------



## Ampeezy

Hey all, 
 Just recently became a member of the stax family after a whopping entry fee. I received the SRM 007TA driver unit today to pair with the recently acquired SR-007Mk2. Mine is the latest iteration I believe, with drivers from this very year. The model number reads SZ3...
  
 Very first impressions were very meh, and I began to wonder what an expensive mistake this could be. Fast forward a few hours, and I think these are worth the money. The bass first of all has a lot of impact while being airy/detailed at the same time, very very enjoyable. The mids are not recessed like some of the reviews I have read, and are in a nice balance with the other frequencies. The highs are the shocker because I keep reading these phones are dark but i dont think so with this pair. While I dont think they are as pronounced as the HD800, they are plenty fine for me.
  
 My previous phones were the Hifiman Edition x, so this is a very big jump and the edition x cant match the speed or detail retrieval of the sr-007. The only advantage of the HE-X is the very tall soundstage, but beyond that the sr-007 have a more rounded and natural soundstage that is just large enough to impart realism to the music.
  
 Might be a while before I look to add more to the collection, but I am looking at the L700 or even potentially the sr-009 in the far future, emphasis on far. 
  
 EDIT: why is the srm 007TA driver unit so fudging long? honestly looks like a slug, but who cares right?
          Also, is there much I can expect from the pair breaking in?


----------



## fogwall

fogwall said:


> I have an old Stax Sigma, connected via the energizer SRD-7.
> 
> I recently discovered a channel imbalance. The right/left proportion is something like 70/30.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is just to let you know that Soren_Brix kindly examined the Sigma for me. He recommended Julez to repair them, which he did. He recoated the left driver and glued it together. I'm now enjoying my Sigma like never before. Thank you guys!


----------



## Michgelsen

ampeezy said:


> EDIT: Also, is there much I can expect from the pair breaking in?


 
  
 No, not at all. Break in is not a thing with Stax.


----------



## Tinkerer

Did some of the oldest pro models have nickel plugs or have they always been gold-plated? I was looking at something and it says pro on the frame but I can't get a good look at the plug other than to see the color of the pins, not count them.


----------



## JimL11

I have a Gamma Pro from the late 80s which has a silvery (nickel?) plug and a LNS from the mid-90s which has gold plated pins.  You can always ask the seller for a good photo of the pins so you can count them.


----------



## yaluen

The original Lambda Pro and its variants have nickel pins. All lambdas thereafter have gold plated pins, including the vintage Lambda Signature, except for the basic models (Lambda Spirit, Nova Basic, 202...).


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

Anyone have comparisons between the SR-007 MK2 Omega 2, and the Stax L300?


----------



## buzzlulu

ampeezy said:


> Hey all,
> Just recently became a member of the stax family after a whopping entry fee. I received the SRM 007TA driver unit today to pair with the recently acquired SR-007Mk2.




 Might as well jump in and introduce myself as I've been following this thread for the last few weeks. I'm back to headfi after last prowling here 14 years ago. I am now the proud owner of a pair of Utopia headphones however I must confide that I have the Stax itch. I attended CanJam in New York two weeks ago and still cannot stop thinking about the demo I had of the 009 and 007 with the blue Hawaii at the headamp booth. It was a short demo however I cannot stop thinking about it. I was particularly enamoured with the 009 - it remains etched in my mind. 

Is there a way to get into Stax headphones with out getting sucked down the proverbial rabbit hole? Just a 009 and simple solid-state no hassle no maintenance energizer. Maybe with a Hugo (2) DAC


----------



## Ampeezy

buzzlulu said:


> Might as well jump in and introduce myself as I've been following this thread for the last few weeks. I'm back to headfi after last prowling here 14 years ago. I am now the proud owner of a pair of Utopia headphones however I must confide that I have the Stax itch. I attended CanJam in New York two weeks ago and still cannot stop thinking about the demo I had of the 009 and 007 with the blue Hawaii at the headamp booth. It was a short demo however I cannot stop thinking about it. I was particularly enamoured with the 009 - it remains etched in my mind.
> 
> Is there a way to get into Stax headphones with out getting sucked down the proverbial rabbit hole? Just a 009 and simple solid-state no hassle no maintenance energizer. Maybe with a Hugo (2) DAC


 
 If you have the budget for it, I have been led to believe that the Mjolnir Audio solid state amps will get you there with the sr-009/007. Particularly the KGSSHV Carbon, or even the KGSSHV mini at 1800 less or so.
 I am personally looking to get the mini later when my budget allows it. Apparently these amps are an unequivocal step up from the stax amps


----------



## Tinkerer

buzzlulu said:


> Is there a way to get into Stax headphones with out getting sucked down the proverbial rabbit hole? Just a 009 and simple solid-state no hassle no maintenance energizer. Maybe with a Hugo (2) DAC



 


Probably best to build a KGSSHV Carbon if you have any electronics skills at all. Maybe $1500 in parts and top of the line performance if you don't splurge on an RK50 potentiometer or anything. If not, a used full size KGSSHV can be had around the same price without losing much.

For modern STAX and no fooling around, a 353S from STAX japan is like $350. Or you can slap a regulated 12V PSU on the entry level mini amp for $50 ($100'ish if you build a top of the line GRLV).

If you have some electronics skills but don't want to go full bore DIY, a number of the old solid state STAX offerings are nice for pretty cheap. Just replace the electrolytic caps and rebias. Might have to add a small probias circuit for the really old ones that only come equipped with normal bias.


----------



## Ampeezy

tinkerer said:


> Probably best to build a KGSSHV Carbon if you have any electronics skills at all. Maybe $1500 in parts and top of the line performance if you don't splurge on an RK50 potentiometer or anything. If not, a used full size KGSSHV can be had around the same price without losing much.
> 
> For modern STAX and no fooling around, a 353S from STAX japan is like $350. Or you can slap a regulated 12V PSU on the entry level mini amp for $50 ($100'ish if you build a top of the line GRLV).
> 
> If you have some electronics skills but don't want to go full bore DIY, a number of the old solid state STAX offerings are nice for pretty cheap. Just replace the electrolytic caps and rebias. Might have to add a small probias circuit for the really old ones that only come equipped with normal bias.


 

 very apt username bud


----------



## mulveling

buzzlulu said:


> Is there a way to get into Stax headphones with out getting sucked down the proverbial rabbit hole? Just a 009 and simple solid-state no hassle no maintenance energizer. Maybe with a Hugo (2) DAC


 
 I'd go for one of the new Lambdas L500/L700 and pair with the best amp you can afford, preferably tube (e.g. used KGST). The Lambdas are more efficient than 009, far more efficient than 007, and generally do very well on ordinary amplifiers quite below the Carbon/T2/BHSE tier. I think that's a better approach than letting a mortal amp struggle mightily with the 009/007.
  
 Of course some don't like the Lambda sound so much. Purk and I like the L700 quite a lot (I maybe prefer it over my 007 Mk I); my other audiophile friend (who's not Purk) doesn't, and vastly prefers the 007/009.


----------



## buzzlulu

Thanks for the replies. My DIY electronic building skills went out the door 40 years ago back in the days when I was active in amateur ham radio.
Right now I like the suggestion of the new Mojolnir amps - I was actually looking at his website.

What about a DAC to connect to his amplifiers? I have a Mojo in the house which I am currently using with the Utopias and I'm planning on substituting it with a Hugo 2 when it comes out. 

Does an iPhone transport > Hugo2 > Mjolnir KGSSHV > 009 make any sense at all - or am I losing the plot?


----------



## Tinkerer

Yeah, any dedicated electrostatic amp just needs a regular DAC to feed it.


----------



## maximal112

If you're interested in trying out the L500's to get your feet wet so to speak and try out Stax, I will be selling mine along with the matching amp SRM 353x. Which when I started I also had paired with a mojo. Only selling as I have upgraded to a KGST and finally received my 007s yesterday as well. 
  
 The L500's were a great way to get into Stax imo. Give a good feel for what you're getting into without spending too much money and decide whether you want to pursue things further or not


----------



## mulveling

buzzlulu said:


> Thanks for the replies. My DIY electronic building skills went out the door 40 years ago back in the days when I was active in amateur ham radio.
> Right now I like the suggestion of the new Mojolnir amps - I was actually looking at his website.
> 
> What about a DAC to connect to his amplifiers? I have a Mojo in the house which I am currently using with the Utopias and I'm planning on substituting it with a Hugo 2 when it comes out.
> ...


 
 If you loved the 009/BHSE then chances are good you'd like the Mjolnir KGSSHV/009. Though I found the Mjolnir "mini" KGSShv builds to be a bit brighter and slightly fatiguing compared to the BHSE with NOS tubes...but overall it's reasonably close to the BHSE sound, especially considering the significant differences in hardware. That said, you're going down the "rabbit hole" at that point. And for $3K+ you can get a lot of amp on the used market if you're patient.


----------



## joseph69

buzzlulu said:


> Right now I like the suggestion of the new Mojolnir amps - I was actually looking at his website.
> 
> What about a DAC to connect to his amplifiers?


 
  I had both the Mjolnir KGSShv/KGST and preferred the KGST with the 009 due to its warmer sound. I found the Mjolnir KGSShv to be too bright with the 009. From reading others experiences here, there are other warmer sounding KGSShv builds, though. 
  
 The DAC used with the BHSE/009 at CanJam NY was a Holo Audio Spring DAC which is available in 3 different levels.
  
 I'm mentioning this because I was using a PS-Audio Perfectwave DAC-ll with my BHSE/009 and replaced it with the Spring DAC which made a very impressive SQ difference overall in my Stax system.


----------



## Ampeezy

buzzlulu said:


> Thanks for the replies. My DIY electronic building skills went out the door 40 years ago back in the days when I was active in amateur ham radio.
> Right now I like the suggestion of the new Mojolnir amps - I was actually looking at his website.
> 
> What about a DAC to connect to his amplifiers? I have a Mojo in the house which I am currently using with the Utopias and I'm planning on substituting it with a Hugo 2 when it comes out.
> ...


 

 ​I haven't heard that combo before, and given how apparently finicky the SR-009 can be with source components I'm not too comfortable saying it'll sound awesome. If I had to take a guess though, the Hugo is a phenomenal DAC, and the KGST apparently makes the sr-009 sing, so in all likelihood it will be a very decent set up.


----------



## Pale Rider

Aactually, I suspect that would be just fine. With a Mjolnir KGSShv, the DAC will be your constraint. I've got the Carbon and the Carbon CC, and a headinclouds KGSShv. All sound excellent with the 009, so long as they are getting a nice feed


----------



## joseph69

pale rider said:


> Aactually, I suspect that would be just fine. With a Mjolnir KGSShv, the DAC will be your constraint. I've got the Carbon and the Carbon CC, and a headinclouds KGSShv. All sound excellent with the 009, so long as they are getting a nice feed


 

 Is it the headinclouds KGSShv build that's warmer sounding than the Mjolnir?


----------



## Pale Rider

I think the assertion has been made for the outboard Sanyo build that the Sanyo bits are "sweeter," whatever the hell that means, and I have heard the word "warmer" used as well. When I was using the headinclouds KGSShv behind a PS Audio DirectStream, I did not discern this purported sweetness or warmth. I thought the amps sounded very good, but my sense was that the Carbon seemed a bit more dynamic to me [better power supply?] and open. Those are attributes that appeal to me. This is not a scientific claim on my part, and after a few swaps and switching between the 009 and the 007, I decided I had had enough fun, and stuck with the Carbon [which I owned before the headinclouds build].


----------



## buzzlulu

buzzlulu said:


> Thanks for the replies. My DIY electronic building skills went out the door 40 years ago back in the days when I was active in amateur ham radio.
> Right now I like the suggestion of the new Mojolnir amps - I was actually looking at his website.
> 
> What about a DAC to connect to his amplifiers? I have a Mojo in the house which I am currently using with the Utopias and I'm planning on substituting it with a Hugo 2 when it comes out.
> ...





Thanks to everyone for the answers to my post listed above. 

Perhaps the thing to do is change direction when it comes to source (iPhone > Hugo) and simply take an amp such as the Mjolnir and connect it directly to my two channel system. Naim TOTL preamp/amp fed by Linn LP12 turntable and Linn DS digital player. RCA out from my Naim preamp into a Mjolnir??

It seems that Mjolnir are making a number of different amps - each one a Kevin Gilmore design? What is the difference between all the versions listed on his site?

Finally - how long have the 009's been out? What kind of longevity on Stax models?


----------



## Ampeezy

buzzlulu said:


> Finally - how long have the 009's been out? What kind of longevity on Stax models?


 
 Sr-009 have been out since 2011 I believe, and the sr-007 since 2007. Stax will serve you well for a long long time.


----------



## Pahani

ampeezy said:


> Sr-009 have been out since 2011 I believe, and the sr-007 since 2007. Stax will serve you well for a long long time.


 
 With the minor caveats to avoid moisture and dust


----------



## buzzlulu

Any new models or replacements on the horizon?


----------



## Tinkerer

The L series just came out as the modern refresh of the lambdas. Word is an SR009 Mk II might be in the pipe the next few years.

The SR-007 dates back to 1998 by the way. They just keep tweaking the drivers and stuff over the years. Like the Lambdas go back to the early 80's. Stax is really good at what they do and even the thirty and forty year old stuff can still sound very impressive.


----------



## vapman

tinkerer said:


> The L series just came out as the modern refresh of the lambdas. Word is an SR009 Mk II might be in the pipe the next few years.
> 
> The SR-007 dates back to 1998 by the way. They just keep tweaking the drivers and stuff over the years. Like the Lambdas go back to the early 80's. Stax is really good at what they do and even the thirty and forty year old stuff can still sound very impressive.


 
 Definitely true, even the early 70s sr-x are killer sounding still.


----------



## buzzlulu

When MK2 versions come out can MK1's be sent back for update?

How long are the standard cables? Can they be extended?

Finally - how is service in the USA? I keep on reading about shoddy distributors - and that the current distributor is now no longer? Do they usually need service - or more or less fairly reliable?

Incredible how my only demo was a brief 15 minutes at CanJam yet the 009's remain permanently etched in my mind.


----------



## mulveling

Purk lent me his Lambda Pro from the mid 1980's for a while, and it sounded awesome. He wouldn't sell it to me, but I finally moved on when I got my L700. This stuff can last a LONG time, and sound great. No problems yet with my two 009's, 007 Mk I, or L700.


----------



## Rossliew

Does the L700 pair well with Mjolnir kgsshv mini?


----------



## Tinkerer

buzzlulu said:


> When MK2 versions come out can MK1's be sent back for update?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


If you want to upgrade between versions, SOP is just to sell your old pair and then buy a new one. Much less hassle and more economical. STAX hold their value pretty well. If STAX has to completely replace a driver they can't repair then they'll put a set of whatever the current equivalents are in it though.

Standard cables are 2 meters. You can buy extension cables of varying sizes, but due to the way electrostatic headphones work, this is harder on the amp to drive the headphones. Doesn't matter much for a big amp, but noticeable on the smaller ones.

Service in the USA basically consists of shipping them back to the factory in Japan right now.


----------



## buzzlulu

Thank you for the replies


----------



## FLguy

I have a Stax STM-T1W, and would like to confirm that the line voltage is set correctly for use in the US. 
  

  
  
 Can anyone provide (or point me to) instructions for reading/changing the line voltage setting for this amp? It appears that the selector may need to be pulled out and re-positioned with the arrow pointing toward the 117 position in order to change the setting, but I'd like to confirm that before I start pulling on it.
  
 Thanks for any info.


----------



## kevin gilmore

Unplug and turn 180 degrees so it points at 117

Works as long as transformer wires are not cut


----------



## FLguy

Kevin, thanks much for confirming that the selector is meant to be pulled out (unplugged) - it looked like that, but I wanted to confirm.
  
 Is it possible to explain how to confirm whether the transformer wires have been cut? A label on the back of the amp says "100V Only", however the seller (a fairly well known seller) assures that the circuitry is in tact, and the selector just needs to be set appropriately.
  
 I'd prefer to be sure before plugging it in


----------



## mulveling

rossliew said:


> Does the L700 pair well with Mjolnir kgsshv mini?


 
 I wouldn't advise that pairing because the L700 is a bit hot on top even on a Carbon (even the 009 sounds more relaxed there). You'll probably want a warmer amp. I liked it on the KGST. Love it on the Carbon, but not the best for marathon sessions.


----------



## Rossliew

mulveling said:


> I wouldn't advise that pairing because the L700 is a bit hot on top even on a Carbon (even the 009 sounds more relaxed there). You'll probably want a warmer amp. I liked it on the KGST. Love it on the Carbon, but not the best for marathon sessions.




Thanks for the advice. Was seriously thinking of the mini/L700 combo as a decent beginners rig without spending too much. So it's either a warmer amp or a darker can like the 007..

Would the BHSE/L700 combo sound bright similarly?


----------



## JimL11

flguy said:


> Kevin, thanks much for confirming that the selector is meant to be pulled out (unplugged) - it looked like that, but I wanted to confirm.
> 
> Is it possible to explain how to confirm whether the transformer wires have been cut? A label on the back of the amp says "100V Only", however the seller (a fairly well known seller) assures that the circuitry is in tact, and the selector just needs to be set appropriately.
> 
> I'd prefer to be sure before plugging it in


 

 If any wires have been cut, it will be on the secondary (output) side of the power transformer.  After you set it for the appropriate voltage, just plug it in and flip the power switch.  If the wires have been cut, no power will go into the amp, so it won't even turn on.  If it turns on, the wiring is intact.  Won't harm the amp either way.  You CAN damage the amp if you plug it into 117VAC power while it is set for 100VAC, because that will result in the power supply voltages being too high.
  
 The other way is to look at the power transformer and see if all the wires are intact, but that involves removing the cover and knowing what you are looking at.  Much easier to set it for the voltage and see if it turns on.  Quick yes:no answer with no detailed knowledge needed.  Don't overthink it.


----------



## FLguy

Perfect - thanks!


----------



## Ampeezy

Okay I have been listening a lot since I received the srm 007TA on Wednesday and whoever said electrostats could not do bass? Mine hit hard, and hit low with no apparent distortion. bass extension is very similar to a good pair of Audeze lcd-2s I had back in the day. Really impressive!


----------



## JimL11

buzzlulu said:


> It seems that Mjolnir are making a number of different amps - each one a Kevin Gilmore design? What is the difference between all the versions listed on his site?


 
 All of the Mjolnir amps are designed by Kevin Gilmore, that's what the KG stands for.
  
 The original electrostatic headphone solid state amp was the KGSS (Kevin Gilmore Solid State), designed in the 1990s - AFAIK nobody is building these anymore.  At one point HeadAmp built them (they now build the Aristaeus and Blue Hawaii Special Edition).
  
 An update of that was the KGSSHV (HV for high voltage) with improved third stage and higher voltage transistor output stage, and better PS in the full size versions.
  
 The most recent all solid state design is the KGSS Carbon, using Silicon Carbide MOSFETS with a more linear output stage, more expensive than the KGSSHV, most advanced power supply in the full size versions.  This is reportedly the best sounding and roughly the same level as the BHSE, although some regard it as the same level as the DIY T2. I haven't heard any of them other than the BHSE, and the number of persons that have compared them AND commented on the internet can probably be counted on the fingers of both hands.
  
 The mini versions of the above use a more basic regulated power supply, which may cause some losses in dynamics and soundstage - how significant this is to you depends on your sensitivity to those difference.  Note that the Stax amps all have a passive HV power supply (the more recent ones have a 7815/7915 IC regulated PS for the low voltage front end).
  
 The KGST, as spritzer put it, is "a Stax SRM-007t made with no cost or retail considerations."  It uses single (6S4A) vs double triode tubes (paralleled 6FQ7) which can take more voltage and power, and AFAIK his version uses the more basic regulated PS.
  
 The Octave is an all tube amp that is a balanced upgrade of Gilmore's all triode stat amp.  It's still a good design but doesn't have the ability to drive the more difficult headphones that the other KG designs have.
  
 AFAIK, all the Mjolnir amps are made with balanced XLR inputs, so if you want to use RCA you'll have to get a RCA to XLR converter.


----------



## Rossliew

There is also the cost no object Carbon CC using pure silver wiring and top shelf volume pot but not sure if the power supply is TOTL.


----------



## kevin gilmore

jiml11 said:


> If any wires have been cut, it will be on the secondary (output) side of the power transformer.


 
  
 no that is not how they did it.  They clipped the 120v primary wire on each of the 2 windings leaving 2 x 0-100v windings
  
 most of the time you can get at the wires and repair them.
  
 If the sticker on the back says 100v only, then the primary wires are probably cut off.


----------



## JimL11

kevin gilmore said:


> no that is not how they did it.  They clipped the 120v primary wire on each of the 2 windings leaving 2 x 0-100v windings
> 
> most of the time you can get at the wires and repair them.
> 
> If the sticker on the back says 100v only, then the primary wires are probably cut off.


 

 whoops, my bad.


----------



## FLguy

The good news is that we have not only power, but music!  I had a few bumps to track down & smooth out (analog out seemingly not working from one of my other components  ), but so far so good. And quite good so far, I'll say... 
  
 Driving a pair of ESP-950s via an adapter cable. Even with a backup front end, it's good. First listen suggests the combination is providing what I was looking for with this amp. Feeling some _long_ listening sessions coming on 
  
 Thanks for the info.


----------



## mulveling

rossliew said:


> Thanks for the advice. Was seriously thinking of the mini/L700 combo as a decent beginners rig without spending too much. So it's either a warmer amp or a darker can like the 007..
> 
> Would the BHSE/L700 combo sound bright similarly?


 
 No, not _*too*_ bright with vintage EL34 tubes; still up there though, just below the L700/Carbon pairing. That said, I do often enjoy the L700/Carbon or L700/BHSE for its slightly less accurate and more hyped-up/fun sound vs. the 007/009 (you get a bit more bloom in the midbass and sparkle in treble from L700). And the L700 does benefit from these better amps, but you're past the elbow of the value/scaling curve at this point. The DIY balanced hev90 is an excellent match for L700. The KGST is also good, but at a lower level of performance. I think my warmest KGSShv would also be good, but haven't tried that combo yet.
  
 With L700, I would look for a KGST or a warm KGSShv. Or just choose your preference of 007/009 and go from there (KGST or warm KGSShv are also good starter amps for 009). Current Mjolnir Mini would be too bright though; I'm sure of that.


----------



## Ampeezy

mulveling said:


> No, not _*too*_ bright with vintage EL34 tubes; still up there though, just below the L700/Carbon pairing. That said, I do often enjoy the L700/Carbon or L700/BHSE for its slightly less accurate and more hyped-up/fun sound vs. the 007/009 (you get a bit more bloom in the midbass and sparkle in treble from L700). And the L700 does benefit from these better amps, but you're past the elbow of the value/scaling curve at this point. The DIY balanced hev90 is an excellent match for L700. The KGST is also good, but at a lower level of performance. I think my warmest KGSShv would also be good, but haven't tried that combo yet.
> 
> With L700, I would look for a KGST or a warm KGSShv. Or just choose your preference of 007/009 and go from there (KGST or warm KGSShv are also good starter amps for 009). Current Mjolnir Mini would be too bright though; I'm sure of that.


 

 ​Why do you have so many amps? (drooling here). How 'bout you send one my way?
 Actually looking for some used electrostatic amps, and cant find any anywhere


----------



## Rossliew

mulveling said:


> No, not _*too*_ bright with vintage EL34 tubes; still up there though, just below the L700/Carbon pairing. That said, I do often enjoy the L700/Carbon or L700/BHSE for its slightly less accurate and more hyped-up/fun sound vs. the 007/009 (you get a bit more bloom in the midbass and sparkle in treble from L700). And the L700 does benefit from these better amps, but you're past the elbow of the value/scaling curve at this point. The DIY balanced hev90 is an excellent match for L700. The KGST is also good, but at a lower level of performance. I think my warmest KGSShv would also be good, but haven't tried that combo yet.
> 
> With L700, I would look for a KGST or a warm KGSShv. Or just choose your preference of 007/009 and go from there (KGST or warm KGSShv are also good starter amps for 009). Current Mjolnir Mini would be too bright though; I'm sure of that.




Many thanks for the kind advice. Have to start saving up or selling existing gear . Don't see many used amps for sale nowadays at price points that I'm comfortable with.


----------



## jibzilla

buzzlulu said:


> Thanks to everyone for the answers to my post listed above.
> 
> Perhaps the thing to do is change direction when it comes to source (iPhone > Hugo) and simply take an amp such as the Mjolnir and connect it directly to my two channel system. Naim TOTL preamp/amp fed by Linn LP12 turntable and Linn DS digital player. RCA out from my Naim preamp into a Mjolnir??
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you are looking to connect multiple sources, especially rca with TT, you will need something like a goldpoint passive pre to go with your Mjolnir amp. Mjolnir only does one xlr in and one xlr out.
  
 I also highly suggest buying mjolnir used.


----------



## Ampeezy

jibzilla said:


> If you are looking to connect multiple sources, especially rca with TT, you will need something like a goldpoint passive pre to go with your Mjolnir amp. Mjolnir only does one xlr in and one xlr out.
> 
> I also highly suggest buying mjolnir used.


 

 ​Used where? struggle finding one


----------



## paradoxper

Carbon for sale here 
  
 Perhaps every bit as good of a build as Spritzer.


----------



## Rossliew

paradoxper said:


> Carbon for sale here
> 
> Perhaps every bit as good of a build as Spritzer.




Would have grabbed this if not for the pricey shipping to Malaysia as its heavy.


----------



## Ampeezy

pm'd


----------



## tanyokemeng

Hi all,

I am a fortunate guy who managed to scrimp for a new SR-009. The sound is impressive. 

I have a little problem though. The 009 is new and not fully broken in.
I feel the right side is very slightly louder than the left.
I listened to a full frequency tone sweep, and it feels like the lowest frequency sweeps to the right and back to centre of head. Then the mid and high frequency tone is mostly focused in the centre of head.

I started to wonder if this is a driver imbalance.

I noted that the bass reponse of the sr009 is a little fiddly, changing slightly as I move the headphone around on my head. Sometimes after numberous times the bass response position seems to be balanced in the centre.
At times I tilt the left driver slightly more downwards, it improves. 
once I flip the headphone left - right and listened ， the bass response is perfectly in the centre.

Is it normal for the 009 to behave this way? It is rather fiddly. Is it the Drivers? Is it the foam?

I don't know. Wish I like near some advice on this issue. 

Thanks


----------



## joseph69

tanyokemeng said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am a fortunate guy who managed to scrimp for a new SR-009. And impressed with it.
> 
> ...


 
  
As far as the 009 being imbalanced, I can't comment without the experience, sorry.
 I can however comment on the bass responding differently while turning your head from left/right.
 I just noticed this myself the other night. I moved my head all the way to the left/right to stretch a bit and noticed the bass increased.
  
 The reason the bass increases is because the ear pads are moving away from your ears slightly when this is done. While sitting with your head straight, slightly pull the cups away from your ears and you'll replicate what you experienced.


----------



## astrostar59

tanyokemeng said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am a fortunate guy who managed to scrimp for a new SR-009. The sound is impressive.
> 
> ...


 
 I had a pair of 009s that got the imbalance after 20 months. However it was very obvious and a volume reduction was across the frequency spectrum, not just the bass effect you describe.
  
 Have you adjusted the headband to get the drivers sitting over your ears and resting nicely against your head? Also watch the left and right on the cups, the thicker section of the cups needs to be behind your ear so in effect, the drivers tilt into your ear canal a bit. Also keep the lead loose, I rest the excess on my desk as opposed to dangling below causing weight to the HP.
  
 Dead basics here, have you had your ears cleaned? I get wax build up in the right side.
  
 Hope this helps and enjoy your new 009s.


----------



## tanyokemeng

joseph69 said:


> As far as the 009 being imbalanced, I can't comment without the experience, sorry.
> I can however comment on the bass responding differently while turning your head from left/right.
> I just noticed this myself the other night. I moved my head all the way to the left/right to stretch a bit and noticed the bass increased.
> 
> The reason the bass increases is because the ear pads are moving away from your ears slightly when this is done. While sitting with your head straight, slightly pull the cups away from your ears and you'll replicate what you experienced.



Thanks Joseph, indeed that was what I noticed and I agree. Apparently, when moving the head around or adjusting the headphone, the bass response responds the most as opposed to the mid and high frequency. I wonder if it is affected by the seal created by the earpad seal. Bcos I do experience often some Stax "farting"/ crackling (i think) as i move the phone around and adjust the driver position. It is that sensitive: pressing the earcup against the ear, tilting the earcup slightly, lifting the earcup AWAY from the ear - all change the bass. Kind of reminds of the AKG K550, where it really takes a while to adjust to get a proper seal for the bass to appear. And the K550 farts too, serious!
 
Oh, i noticed something strange too. As i lift the earcup AWAY from the ear, the bass became bigger and stronger. When I put the earcup back against my ears, the bass became softer but tighter. Strange but true! Thats how sensitive!

The HE-6 , HD800 are not affected much by the ear position which I think is bcos their earpad are velour and hence do not "seal". The SR009 is a open headphone with a has sealing earpad. Intriguing.


----------



## tanyokemeng

astrostar59 said:


> I had a pair of 009s that got the imbalance after 20 months. However it was very obvious and a volume reduction was across the frequency spectrum, not just the bass effect you describe.
> 
> Have you adjusted the headband to get the drivers sitting over your ears and resting nicely against your head? Also watch the left and right on the cups, the thicker section of the cups needs to be behind your ear so in effect, the drivers tilt into your ear canal a bit. Also keep the lead loose, I rest the excess on my desk as opposed to dangling below causing weight to the HP.
> 
> ...



Hi atrostar59,
 
Thanks for the advice. Is it common to get imbalance so long after purchase (20 months)? AFAIK my local unit is covered by only one year warranty and that may be an issue. Did Stax charge you for the replacement?
 
Good point regarding the wire on the desk, I did notice the long heavy cable can tug the headphone in a certain direction and maybe that could contribute to the change in sound.
 
Regarding the ear wax, ok... I will get that checked too.


----------



## joseph69

tanyokemeng said:


> joseph69 said:
> 
> 
> > As far as the 009 being imbalanced, I can't comment without the experience, sorry.
> ...


 
 It's definitely an effect created by breaking the seal on your ears. I actually don't have such a tight seal around my ears with the 009, so I don't hear the diaphragms moving. I do know what you're talking about though, because with my 007 the ear pads create a much tighter seal, so I do hear the diaphragms moving when I'm adjusting them, which I don't like to hear because I feel I'm forcing them to move by creating such suction. I don't know if this causes any harm to the diaphragms, but I still don't like forcing them.
  
 Yes, the slightest movement (breaking the seal/pulling the cups away) from your ears causes the bass to increase. Glad you found the reason for the bass resounded when moving your head. Good luck with your imbalance issue, hope you have it resolved at a minimum cost being you're out of warranty.


----------



## rayofsi

Imbalance issues are not normal fyi. Sign of a defect somewhere. I have a pair of SR009 that is from before the edifier take over. They are perfect without issue. I think they are 5+ years old?


----------



## Michgelsen

I had a pair of 'stats with a very slight imbalance once, a long time ago. As soon as I heard it once, it couldn't be unheard, and it ruined the experience. While listening, I was constantly checking whether voices were centered or not, so I had it repaired. My suggestion is to: 1) make sure that the headphones indeed have an imbalance and the fault is not somewhere else, 2) in case of imbalance in the headphones, get it fixed under warranty ASAP.


----------



## Feilong4

I'm thinking of getting a pair of Stax. 
  
 I'm a bit concerned about the dust problem though. This might have been asked numerous times before, but how well have they've fared in your rooms?
  
 I might get a slight layer of dust on my desk every week. No idea whether this is a lot, as it's normal to me by now.
  
 Also, any predictions/experience in how they might fare in an environment that gets pretty hot in the summer and pretty cold in the winter? I live in Minnesota where the temperatures can get crazy from below zero in the winter and mid-nineties or higher in the summer.
  
 EDIT: Where might I be able to get the earspeakers or the system repaired? I might look into shipping internationally when it comes to it (hopefully not).


----------



## JimL11

feilong4 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a pair of Stax.
> 
> I'm a bit concerned about the dust problem though. This might have been asked numerous times before, but how well have they've fared in your rooms?
> 
> ...


 

 Shouldn't be a problem.  Stax drivers are enclosed within a dust shield like a plastic bag, so dust should never reach them unless you are in the habit of sticking needles into them.


----------



## Tinkerer

feilong4 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a pair of Stax.
> 
> I'm a bit concerned about the dust problem though. This might have been asked numerous times before, but how well have they've fared in your rooms?
> 
> ...



 


I live in a literal swamp and use 20 year old Stax that still work perfectly. A lot of stuff people say about dust or water or temperature about other electrostats don't apply much to good Stax with dust shields. The stuff that usually gives out is either the cord or maybe the diaphragm coating after 30 or 40 years. Compared to other quality stats that seem to have problems with buzz from dust like the Koss ESP 950 anyway. Even those kind of things are pretty solid. I had a an ESP 6 from the late-60's that still worked perfectly after a little TLC to the circuit boards.


----------



## Ampeezy

After a week of burning in the Sr-007 it sounds like the bass has toned a bit, and is now a bit more neutral? It was very very punchy and a bit overemphasized the first few days. Maybe my brain burned in


----------



## Tinkerer

Probably just the pads sealing better to your head. You get a midbass hump if they don't seal exactly right. Electrostat headphones don't burn in. Really old ones might take awhile to fully charge the diaphragm though.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

tinkerer said:


> Probably just the pads sealing better to your head. You get a midbass hump if they don't seal exactly right. Electrostat headphones don't burn in. Really old ones might take awhile to fully charge the diaphragm though.


 
  
 +1000
 I think the same, good seal is crucial with 007.
 After sealing the bass ports with blu tack, took me a few days to get a "correct" seal. After that and with KGSSHV Mini, the headphones sound super tight and neutral.


----------



## tanyokemeng

Hi,

Just a little update on the imbalance issue:

Earlier, I have tested the 009 with two different amps. The same slight imbalance and shifting of Low frequencies still present. 
Then I brought the unit down to my local store and the good distributor/ technical support tested it out. 
Surprise... it sounded ok there during a short test.

So I went back and worked out some possible problems down the chain. So I tried cable swapping,different sources. So last night after messing around for the night, problem slowly dissipated (hopefully it remains so). 

I thought what could happen are these:

1. Headphone earpad/ foam
The earcups being conditioned during the early stages of usage resulting in a better fit onto the head and seal. This happens gradually and can be noticed after a few hours of use. I noticed the earpads are made of leather at the contact part. The leather is not exactly the same - one side leather seems a little more crumpled while the other is way smoother. Also the right earpad is very slightly distorted at one area, probably happened in the packaging. Maybe that could have contributed to the difference in seal before being conditioned in. 

2. Amplification volume
The DAC I am using is Benchmark DAC2 with a HGC volume knob with a variable volume output through XLR. 
In the "home theatre" mode, it tries to output at 90%.
I used about 20% volume on the headphone amp. I somehow remembered someone telling me that some volume knob may have slight imbalance at very Low volume. 
So what I did was ramp the amp volume to 50%, while turning down the DAC volume to 30%. 
That "seems" to bring out more details on the left side of the phone and the L-R balance improves subtly. 
I cannot tell if it is psychological or ear getting adjusted.

3. Position of listening 
I sit very near a wall to my right side. Sometimes there is a fan on the left with its gentle breeze. Although the part has nothing to do with the imbalance of the headphones, it does create a different sense of space when listening at lower volumes. 
The 009 is so very open and I can hear everything outside very clearly. When listening at low volumes, the sense of space on the right wall side can feel different. Even when I lean back against my chair and lift up my arms to rest them behind my ears, the sound bouncing back can change the sound from the 009 slightly! It's true!
So I tried to change my sitting position either facing the wall side completely or the opposite side. The sense of space is better. When I listen at higher volume and louder music, it's not so relevant.


----------



## Tinkerer

If you look over on the other site, there's been some info that the balance issues might be a bias connection issue since STAX replaced the 009 screw connection with a rivet that can get loose in later models. If it's loose then the diaphragm won't charge correctly and gets a lot of the behavior you're talking about. The good thing is, this can basically be fixed with a little dab of solder on the connector to fill the gap. 

Otherwise, volume pots at low volume will accentuate tracking differences like you said.


----------



## Ampeezy

torofiestasol said:


> +1000
> I think the same, good seal is crucial with 007.
> After sealing the bass ports with blu tack, took me a few days to get a "correct" seal. After that and with KGSSHV Mini, the headphones sound super tight and neutral.


 

 ​yeah probably what it is...have you tried the srm 007TA with the 007? if so how does it compare with the mini?


----------



## Ampeezy

tanyokemeng said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just a little update on the imbalance issue:
> 
> ...


 

 ​I don't know if you're using stax amps but if your are, some of them allow independent L/R volume control. if this is the case, hold the back of the knob with one hand, while adjusting the front of the knob so the left and right channels are roughly the same volume. This feature honestly irks me, because one wrong move and the channels are imbalanced


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

ampeezy said:


> ​yeah probably what it is...have you tried the srm 007TA with the 007? if so how does it compare with the mini?


 
  
 Not a fair comparison, because apart of my KGSSHV Mini, I only heard the SRM-323S, and it was a one hour audition, did not heard the 007TA.
 SRM-323S (now replaced by SRM-353X) is considered the best Stax amp by the Stax mafia.
 The KGSSHV Mini is the only electrostatic amp that I bought for myself.
 Also, when I heard the 007 with the SRM-323S, the 007 was in stock form, mine has the bass ports sealed, I did the mod one day after having the headphones, so it's not the most accurate comparison. My 007 are the current revision, don't know what revision are the other 007 pair that I auditioned with the Stax amp, it was in 2016, so I suppose they're the same version.
  
 What I can say is, stock 007 and 323s= midbass hump, bland sounding, dull.
 007 with Spritzer mod and KGSSHV Mini= neutral, no soft treble, tons of bass impact, no midbass hump.
  
 You really need to seal the bass ports and a Kevin Gilmore amp for the 007, if not, go for another headphone.
 Also the seal is very important, is a very tricky headphone, very hard to judge because of the required conditions to get it "right".
  
 EDIT: I know that opening the headphones and buying something from a DIYer and not a store is a kick in the balls, because you can broke the headphones if you touch the diaphragm and get scammed with the amp if you have bad luck...but for me, the risk was worth it, didn't broke anything and didn't get scammed, now my problem is a better source, but headphone upgrade? Ha! I've found true, inconditional love for this tricky, unicorn-like Stax headphone.


----------



## tanyokemeng

ampeezy said:


> ​I don't know if you're using stax amps but if your are, some of them allow independent L/R volume control. if this is the case, hold the back of the knob with one hand, while adjusting the front of the knob so the left and right channels are roughly the same volume. This feature honestly irks me, because one wrong move and the channels are imbalanced


 
 Unfortunately my stat amp do not have the L-R balance. My other dynamic BHA-1 amp has it. But I too agree that it is kindly of fiddly. I also feel the knob should not be used to correct a headphone that is imbalanced, not working as it should in the first place. Maybe it is better to solve the primary condition.


----------



## Ampeezy

torofiestasol said:


> Not a fair comparison, because apart of my KGSSHV Mini, I only heard the SRM-323S, and it was a one hour audition, did not heard the 007TA.
> SRM-323S (now replaced by SRM-353X) is considered the best Stax amp by the Stax mafia.
> The KGSSHV Mini is the only electrostatic amp that I bought for myself.
> Also, when I heard the 007 with the SRM-323S, the 007 was in stock form, mine has the bass ports sealed, I did the mod one day after having the headphones, so it's not the most accurate comparison. My 007 are the current revision, don't know what revision are the other 007 pair that I auditioned with the Stax amp, it was in 2016, so I suppose they're the same version.
> ...


 

 ​I was thinking of adding the sr-009/HD800S to my collection, but will significantly delay getting a KG amp, oh man what to do. I mean the 007TA doesn't sound terrible lol, much better than my previous setup.


----------



## Pahani

feilong4 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a pair of Stax.
> 
> I'm a bit concerned about the dust problem though. This might have been asked numerous times before, but how well have they've fared in your rooms?
> 
> ...


 
 I live in Iowa, so similar temperature extremes.-20 to -40F windchill in the winter, 105-ish in the summer. I've had my Lambda's for almost a year now, zero troubles. But I also use the heck out of my A/C and furnace.
  
 You'll be fine.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

feilong4 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a pair of Stax.
> 
> I'm a bit concerned about the dust problem though. This might have been asked numerous times before, but how well have they've fared in your rooms?
> 
> ...


 

If the any amount of dust is concerning to you, then you can purchase the protective covers that Stax makes for their headphones. Unless you have an authorized deal that is around, you have to buy them from Japan, special order. In the mean time you could use the plastic the headphones came wrapped in as a dust condom. Super ghetto but it works.


----------



## tanyokemeng

tinkerer said:


> feilong4 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm thinking of getting a pair of Stax.
> ...




Wow, that's really durable. I had wrongly believed electrostats could fragile devices prone to dust and moisture. If it can last for so many years, then that's making a statement regarding their build quality.


----------



## thinker




----------



## bearFNF

When I got my Lambda NB back in the eighties I lived in Houston (hot and humid). I now live in northern Minnesota (frigid cold in the winter and warm/humid in the summer) and both the lambda and my 009 are working just fine. Yes, on some amps and energizers the lambda take a moment to charge but the BHSE and LL2 have no issue running them.


----------



## vapman

Yeah, it often gets to 90% humidity around me, yet my SR-X Mark III have never failed to rock out in any condition. In fact, I always liked em a little more then Lambdas....


----------



## Ampeezy

I have yet to do the bass port mod, but I believe I am hearing some farts when I move the headphone for a better seal. What does this mean? The drivers on my set were replaced this very year though


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

ampeezy said:


> I have yet to do the bass port mod, but I believe I am hearing some farts when I move the headphone for a better seal. What does this mean? The drivers on my set were replaced this very year though




Yo dog, what you are hearing is the plastic membrane inside the headphone flex, as a result of the air pressure being exerted from sudden movement on your head. Older Stax, at least the old Lambdas were deliberately designed so no air would leak from the pads for sound reasons, but since no air can escape, pressure inside the chamber developed when you press them against your head.. This is the famous Stax Fart, if my audiophile terminology is up to speed, but i didnt know the 007s did that. The Omega II MK2s i tested (and am going to end up buying) never did this.


----------



## Michgelsen

Yes, the 007 mk1 also is supposed to do that. Only with the mk2 Stax introduced a port to 'solve' the issue, and it is this port some people close to increase bass quality. The 007 mk1 doesn't have such a port, so it can have a proper seal to your head and thus optimal bass quality. In fact, you get a small paper letter from Stax inside the 007 mk1 suitcase explaining in their broken English that the Stax fart is nothing to worry about.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

Ait. I listened to the Mark 2s, and those are the ones that i am getting, so i dont have to worry about Stax Shart


----------



## paradoxper

thegadaffiduck said:


> Ait. I listened to the Mark 2s, and those are the ones that i am getting, so i dont have to worry about Stax Shart


 
 mk2's still fart as does the 009.


----------



## Michgelsen

Quote: 





michgelsen said:


> Yes, the 007 mk1 also is supposed to do that. Only with the mk2 Stax introduced a port to 'solve' the issue, and it is this port some people close to increase bass quality. The 007 mk1 doesn't have such a port, so it can have a proper seal to your head and thus optimal bass quality. In fact, you get a small paper letter from Stax inside the 007 mk1 suitcase explaining in their broken English that the Stax fart is nothing to worry about.


  
 Someone asked to scan this little note from Stax, so here it is:


----------



## Ampeezy

Ah I see, thnx for the clarification guys.
 On another note, I am in the process of acquiring the KGSSHV in the sale forums. So I am looking to be rid of the srm 007TA I have. Anyone here wanna pick it up for $1150? it is basically brand new, only about a week old.


----------



## Ampeezy

I need some help with a tough first world problem. I have the stax srm 007TA driver unit, and the sr-007 sounds very good out of it, but having been told it is most likely under-driven I was looking to acquire a KGSSHV carbon. Thing is, I was considering adding the sr-009 to my collection before this amp discussion reared its proverbial ugly head. To those who have heard both the 00TA and a good KGSS/KGSSHV build, is it better to get the KGSSHV carbon rather than get the sr-009?
  
 There are a few moments where it is obvious the 007TA suffers with dynamics, you can hear all the detail but you can tell there is some compression. So I know it will be an upgrade, but is it worth it? will I plug in the stax sr-007 into the carbon and find angels singing into my ears? or are the improvements minor, like eking out the last 5% of performance?
  
 Any input is greatly appreciated. thnx


----------



## greggf

How high do you turn up the volume?
  
 If you're a low-level listener, get the 009 first and just use your STAX amp.  
  
 If you like high volume levels - it looks like you might? - I'd get a better amp and use it, for now, with your 007.
  
 I'm a low level listener.  I'm doing fine with a STAX SRM-727II.  Many people, I assume, wouldn't do so well.


----------



## Ampeezy

greggf said:


> How high do you turn up the volume?
> 
> If you're a low-level listener, get the 009 first and just use your STAX amp.
> 
> ...


 
 Im usually at about 12 o'clock
 Definitely leaning toward the sr-009
  
 This did not help lol: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/56oeki/my_monstrous_amplifier_upgrade_impressions_in/#bottom-comments


----------



## paradoxper

Get the amp, stop gimping your 007. Then invest and scale from there.


----------



## Ampeezy

paradoxper said:


> Get the amp, stop gimping your 007. Then invest and scale from there.


 
 was just talking to a buddy who said essentially the same thing. It is decided.


----------



## funkforfood

Starting from an old Lambda Pro, can L300 be considered an upgrade in terms of sound quality?, it makes sense?


----------



## Tinkerer

ampeezy said:


> I need some help with a tough first world problem. I have the stax srm 007TA driver unit, and the sr-007 sounds very good out of it, but having been told it is most likely under-driven I was looking to acquire a KGSSHV carbon. Thing is, I was considering adding the sr-009 to my collection before this amp discussion reared its proverbial ugly head. To those who have heard both the 00TA and a good KGSS/KGSSHV build, is it better to get the KGSSHV carbon rather than get the sr-009?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


If you like the 007 sound, then just keep it and upgrade the amp/source end.

Just in my experience, what a better amp does for the 007 is gives it better bass, and helps the sense of space, instrument separation, that kind of thing. It just sounds clearer, but is basically the same headphone tonally. It is very noticeable though to the point you'll recognize other instruments on tracks you thought you knew well and so on.

The 007TA is probably 80% of a Carbon though. But then an SR-207 is probably 80% of an SR-007. So you know, typical log increase in cost for additional performance in hifi.

I got to the point where it's almost harder to find music stuff that's actually mastered better than upgrade the hardware.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

funkforfood said:


> Starting from an old Lambda Pro, can L300 be considered an upgrade in terms of sound quality?, it makes sense?


 
 The L300 is the newest series of Lambdas. I listened to old Lambda 407s briefly, and own the L300. L300 is very detailed, and very engaging. Very accurate in throwing every little detail in your face, without being fatiguing at all. I thought that the old series was too trebly in the upper mid section, and didnt sound natural.. L300s take it back a notch, and they sound very natural. I have never listened to the Old Lambda Pros, but i am sure that there is an improvement from going from old stock to new stock. I could be wrong on tho lol


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

tinkerer said:


> ampeezy said:
> 
> 
> > I need some help with a tough first world problem. I have the stax srm 007TA driver unit, and the sr-007 sounds very good out of it, but having been told it is most likely under-driven I was looking to acquire a KGSSHV carbon. Thing is, I was considering adding the sr-009 to my collection before this amp discussion reared its proverbial ugly head. To those who have heard both the 00TA and a good KGSS/KGSSHV build, is it better to get the KGSSHV carbon rather than get the sr-009?
> ...


 
 I agree with him on this one. The 007 is a warmer sound, while the 009 i thought was quite bright. Technically speaking, the 009 is a much better headphone in terms of overall clarity, but that is also attributes to its brightness i thought. I am young in more ways than one, and that includes hearing. If you're a bit more sensitive to brightness, i think sticking with the 007 is your best bet (and much cheaper bet), and look to upgrading your amplifaction later on. This difference in tonality is what urged me buy the 007 MK2 over the 009. (r.i.p. bank account.) Speaking of Amps, i do have a Bryston 2BLP hooked to a Woo Audio WEE. Immediatly this set-up is much better than the stock amp with the L-300, but the L-300 isnt super picky to drive either. I will come back to you on this subject on how the WEE handles the James Bond 007 Stax.


----------



## astrostar59

ampeezy said:


> I need some help with a tough first world problem. I have the stax srm 007TA driver unit, and the sr-007 sounds very good out of it, but having been told it is most likely under-driven I was looking to acquire a KGSSHV carbon. Thing is, I was considering adding the sr-009 to my collection before this amp discussion reared its proverbial ugly head. To those who have heard both the 00TA and a good KGSS/KGSSHV build, is it better to get the KGSSHV carbon rather than get the sr-009?
> 
> There are a few moments where it is obvious the 007TA suffers with dynamics, you can hear all the detail but you can tell there is some compression. So I know it will be an upgrade, but is it worth it? will I plug in the stax sr-007 into the carbon and find angels singing into my ears? or are the improvements minor, like eking out the last 5% of performance?
> 
> Any input is greatly appreciated. thnx


 

 The Stax amps are not great at driving the 007, and the dynamics and soundsage is weak, the bass one note and the treble synthetic and cold. This also applies to the 009 and the Stax amp, though the 009 will play a bit louder. But basically louder sound that is still not great (to what both those HPs are capable of).
  
 So, I would say get the KGSShv or Carbon, then look to get the 009s for sure. TBH I have the 007A (current build 007) and it is very good indeed out of the Carbon. Other thing to consider is the 007 is more forgiving so you could keep going on your current source no doubt without having to look at that as well (don't know your source), as the 009 is very transparent and can throw up system issues quite ruthlessly.
  
 Last point, the jump from a Stax amp to the KG amps is not subtle, you are in four a treat!


----------



## funkforfood

thegadaffiduck said:


> I thought that the old series was too trebly in the upper mid section, and didnt sound natural..


 
  
 Yes, this is my main complain, I especially would like to improve in this aspect.
 Thanks.


----------



## zolkis

Relative to driving the 007, I am using now an SRM-1 with modified PSU and a few other changes as an intermediary solution until my new amp is ready. While it doesn't sound as good as my other/previous amps, it does drive the 007 quite well even with classical music with high dynamic range, albeit I need to set the volume about 12 o'clock. It definitely tops the 353X. 
  
 Note that I use 009 pads on the 007 (even those modded) and without the springs. That makes the 007 Mk1 sound much more open, with a sound signature very similar to the SR-Omega, albeit with less treble level. Also, the bass is improved both in impact and depth, together with sound stage. Therefore less volume is enough, and doesn't need a powerful [tube] amp to open it up (even though it's good if one has it). Although the driver properties are not changed, and it's the same difficult to drive it (ear volume didn't change with the mods), for psychological reasons the more open sound makes it acceptable with more amps (if volume requirements are not extreme).
  
 The 007 Mk2 needs a very smooth amp, but it's somewhat less difficult to drive than the Mk1. Also, mods don't help it as much as the Mk1. So there I'd recommend a KG amp for sure.
  
 The 009 needs a warm and smooth amp, and transistors amps work well.
  
 My advice to anyone would be to decide on the headphones first, then on the amp. If you are on a budget, IMHO a [modded] SRM-T1 with the 009 or a [modded] SRM-1 with the 007 is still better than most systems in the similar price range. Then you can wait until a KG amp pops up at a good price - or until you build your own (we can't be grateful enough to Dr. Gilmore!).
  
 For instance, when choosing between an L700+Carbon and 009+T1, I would pick the latter. If nothing else, it will teach/motivate you to build a good system . But it's personal I guess.


----------



## Ampeezy

astrostar59 said:


> The Stax amps are not great at driving the 007, and the dynamics and soundsage is weak, the bass one note and the treble synthetic and cold. This also applies to the 009 and the Stax amp, though the 009 will play a bit louder. But basically louder sound that is still not great (to what both those HPs are capable of).
> 
> So, I would say get the KGSShv or Carbon, then look to get the 009s for sure. TBH I have the 007A (current build 007) and it is very good indeed out of the Carbon. Other thing to consider is the 007 is more forgiving so you could keep going on your current source no doubt without having to look at that as well (don't know your source), as the 009 is very transparent and can throw up system issues quite ruthlessly.
> 
> Last point, the jump from a Stax amp to the KG amps is not subtle, you are in four a treat!


 
 Yup, went with the carbon just this morning, i'll be sure to post impressions when it comes in. I have the Gustard x20 Pro


----------



## donunus

Hi guys I want to get another stax again but am only fearful that the next one I get will have the problem I had with my first one. I got a japanese version from audiocubes with the japan step down transformer and i had to touch the chassis of my amp to get rid of a ground hum. It was a 2050 system. Too bad because I really liked the sound. So musical and if it didn't have any hum I wouldn't have cared to upgrade all the time. Sonetimes I enjoyed them more than my hd600 rig. I wonder if the same issues are present with higher model stax amps.

Now for another question, has anyone reviewed the L300 and compared them in detail with the L500, L700, or both?


----------



## Ampeezy

donunus said:


> Hi guys I want to get another stax again but am only fearful that the next one I get will have the problem I had with my first one. I got a japanese version from audiocubes with the japan step down transformer and i had to touch the chassis of my amp to get rid of a ground hum. It was a 2050 system. Too bad because I really liked the sound. So musical and if it didn't have any hum I wouldn't have cared to upgrade all the time. Sonetimes I enjoyed them more than my hd600 rig. I wonder if the same issues are present with higher model stax amps.
> 
> Now for another question, has anyone reviewed the L300 and compared them in detail with the L500, L700, or both?


 
 I've experienced no such grounding issues


----------



## donunus

where do you live? you may have different power than what we have in the Philippines. No ground here unless I bury a long steel post in a deep hole in the ground myself and sprinkle a sack of salt on top of it.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

funkforfood said:


> Yes, this is my main complain, I especially would like to improve in this aspect.
> Thanks.




The 3100 set is 700US on ebay w/free shipping. If you already have a Pro Bias amp like the 252S, its $400us which is a friggin steal for what these can do


----------



## vapman

Any good Pro Bias energizer options for under $300 or is the 3100 set the best bet for that sort of thing?
  
 Dang it I still haven't bought the stax in ears yet...!


----------



## funkforfood

thegadaffiduck said:


> The 3100 set is 700US on ebay w/free shipping. If you already have a Pro Bias amp like the 252S, its $400us which is a friggin steal for what these can do


 
  
 I own an old SRM-T1.
 In the future, I could think of designing my full tube amplifier...


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

funkforfood said:


> I own an old SRM-T1.
> In the future, I could think of designing my full tube amplifier...


 
 Nice! Also power to you that you dont have to invest in another amp


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

vapman said:


> Any good Pro Bias energizer options for under $300 or is the 3100 set the best bet for that sort of thing?
> 
> Dang it I still haven't bought the stax in ears yet...!


 

 Probably not that i know. On Hifiheadphones in Canada, the SRM-252S, the cheapest STAX amplifier i know of for sure, is close to $600can by itself, which is a rip IMO, in which at that point i would get this T1 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/272582707973?rmvSB=true) The local hifistore one town over me has some for $500can. Buying the 3100 set w/amp on ebay is ultimately $300us more, which gives you a moderate deal with the set rather than singular earspeaker set.


----------



## vapman

Hmm... I wasn't so impressed with 252S last time I had it. But, i'm better at modding electronics since then, and know I'd change all the caps in a 252S if I had one. Hopefully that's enough for it to sound nicer...


----------



## Michgelsen

donunus said:


> Hi guys I want to get another stax again but am only fearful that the next one I get will have the problem I had with my first one. I got a japanese version from audiocubes with the japan step down transformer and i had to touch the chassis of my amp to get rid of a ground hum. It was a 2050 system. Too bad because I really liked the sound. So musical and if it didn't have any hum I wouldn't have cared to upgrade all the time. Sonetimes I enjoyed them more than my hd600 rig. I wonder if the same issues are present with higher model stax amps.
> 
> Now for another question, has anyone reviewed the L300 and compared them in detail with the L500, L700, or both?


 
  
  


donunus said:


> where do you live? you may have different power than what we have in the Philippines. No ground here unless I bury a long steel post in a deep hole in the ground myself and sprinkle a sack of salt on top of it.


 
  
  
 Yes, higher end Stax amps can also have this hum, but Stax amps have a binding post on the back of the chassis that allows you to connect a wire from chassis to ground. This is what you should use to get rid of the hum, and in essence is the same as touching the chassis.
 Are you absolutely sure there isn't a ground you could tie the wire to somewhere? Do you have metal water or heating pipes for example? Often, these are either grounded elsewhere, or run through ground water outside your house, grounding them like that. Perhaps you have a (coax) radio/tv connection to your house? These can in some circumstances all be used as a ground for these very weak signals that cause hum.


----------



## donunus

That sounds like a solution. I should have done that when I had it


----------



## randyb

Is StaxUSA still the authorized distributor in the US. stax Japan is showing RPD Limited in Ft. worth as of March 9th. I thought it was Yama/Stax USA?


----------



## HemiSam

Word is it is shifting.  We can only hope the service improves and RPD proves to be more responsive.
  
 HS


----------



## Jones Bob

randyb said:


> Is StaxUSA still the authorized distributor in the US. stax Japan is showing RPD Limited in Ft. worth as of March 9th. I thought it was Yama/Stax USA?




Yamas Enterprises was tossed by STAX as the US Distributor last January 1st. 




hemisam said:


> Word is it is shifting.  We can only hope the service improves and RPD proves to be more responsive.
> 
> HS




"Couldn't get much worse." -John Lennon singing/Getting Better


----------



## VandyMan

In getting my SR-009s repaired, I found out that you can now only get SR-009 pads in brown. New SR-009s will come with brown pads.


----------



## Jones Bob

I will be in Osaka for a week at the first part of April. 

Can anyone recommend a STAX dealer there to visit? Other high-end audio/headphone shops of interest?


----------



## Marshal Banana

jones bob said:


> I will be in Osaka for a week at the first part of April.
> 
> Can anyone recommend a STAX dealer there to visit? Other high-end audio/headphone shops of interest?


 

 I believe the Stax dealer with the best prices in Osaka (maybe in Japan) is Shimamusen in Nihonbashi. If you are a tourist I think they will be able to exonerate you from VAT, and they often offer interesting prices if you pay cash.
http://www.shimamusen.com/html/page6.html


----------



## Feilong4

So I had a used pair of SR-407's come in. Still waiting on my amp for them.

Out of excitement, I tried on the SR-407's and whlie taking them off, my hand slipped and the left earcup slapped my head. They made some crunching/static noises. Of course, I'm not able to test them at the moment. 

I remember reading about some crunching noises, but it was a while back.

Should this be worrisome?


----------



## Jones Bob

marshal banana said:


> I believe the Stax dealer with the best prices in Osaka (maybe in Japan) is Shimamusen in Nihonbashi. If you are a tourist I think they will be able to exonerate you from VAT, and they often offer interesting prices if you pay cash.
> http://www.shimamusen.com/html/page6.html




Thanks!


----------



## Spork67

feilong4 said:


> So I had a used pair of SR-407's come in. Still waiting on my amp for them.
> 
> Out of excitement, I tried on the SR-407's and whlie taking them off, my hand slipped and the left earcup slapped my head. They made some crunching/static noises. Of course, I'm not able to test them at the moment.
> 
> ...


 
  
 No.
 Google STAX fart.


----------



## gefski

donunus said:


> That sounds like a solution. I should have done that when I had it




Never experienced ground loop hum with a US voltage Stax, not with my old SRM1 MK2 PRO, not with friends' amps, not with my current Birgir/727A. All are dead silent in my system.

Difficult ground loop issue in my speaker rig a few years ago was a real grind through components, cables, etc. (yep, even tried a "real" earth ground), was a "system" problem, not just one component. Fortunately, head-fi rigs are generally simpler than systems with pre, power, cd, turntable, etc. Best wishes!

IMO, YMWV


----------



## Feilong4

spork67 said:


> No.
> Google STAX fart. :wink_face:




Oh haha. Good thing it's nothing terrible. 

But boy are the plastic slippery! I've never been slapped by a headphone before haha.


----------



## xuan87

Hi all, I'll be heading to Japan, Sapporo, in May and thinking of getting a Stax L300 for myelf as a birthday gift. Any recommendation for the best place to pick one up? Or will my best bet be the major departmental stores?


----------



## Spork67

xuan87 said:


> Hi all, I'll be heading to Japan, Sapporo, in May and thinking of getting a Stax L300 for myelf as a birthday gift. Any recommendation for the best place to pick one up? Or will my best bet be the major departmental stores?


 
  
  


jones bob said:


> marshal banana said:
> 
> 
> > I believe the Stax dealer with the best prices in Osaka (maybe in Japan) is Shimamusen in Nihonbashi. If you are a tourist I think they will be able to exonerate you from VAT, and they often offer interesting prices if you pay cash.
> ...


----------



## Pokemonn

xuan87 said:


> Hi all, I'll be heading to Japan, Sapporo, in May and thinking of getting a Stax L300 for myelf as a birthday gift. Any recommendation for the best place to pick one up? Or will my best bet be the major departmental stores?


 
  
 Osaka is bit far from Sapporo. Sapporo has an authorized dealer shop. there is exhibition setups too.
  
 shop name キャビン大阪屋(Cavin Osaka-ya)
 address 北海道札幌市中央区北1条西3丁目 (Sapporo-shi, chuo-ku kita, 1jyou nishi- 3)
 tel 011-221-0181
  
 http://www.osakaya.com


----------



## xuan87

spork67 said:


>


 
  
 Yea... Sapporo and Osaka are not close... I only have a morning and an afternoon to get the Stax and I need to get the Nintendo Switch too.


----------



## xuan87

pokemonn said:


> Osaka is bit far from Sapporo. Sapporo has an authorized dealer shop. there is Exhibition setups too.
> 
> shop name キャビン大阪屋(Cavin Osaka-ya)
> address 北海道札幌市中央区北1条西3丁目 (Sapporo-shi, chuo-ku kita, 1jyou - 3)
> ...


 
  
 Thanks! This shop is literally just across the road from my hotel... 2 mins walk according to Google maps LOL!


----------



## paulpaul

Get a better amp is a MUST if you plan to listen the high end headphone. Frankly speaking, STAX amp cannot fully drive your SR007. I used a KGSSHV before and now BHSE, but I am still listening my lovely 007 and have no plan to buy a 009.


----------



## Ampeezy

paulpaul said:


> Get a better amp is a MUST if you plan to listen the high end headphone. Frankly speaking, STAX amp cannot fully drive your SR007. I used a KGSSHV before and now BHSE, but I am still listening my lovely 007 and have no plan to buy a 009.


 
 Nice to hear, I have my carbon coming in next Tuesday. Cant wait


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

paulpaul said:


> Get a better amp is a MUST if you plan to listen the high end headphone. Frankly speaking, STAX amp cannot fully drive your SR007. I used a KGSSHV before and now BHSE, but I am still listening my lovely 007 and have no plan to buy a 009.


 
 Same. I'm still waiting for my 007s in the mail. The two times I listened to them were just lovely. Can't wait


----------



## Michgelsen

In my opinion the 007 sounds wonderful in combination with a 717. It's not as if the 007 suddenly sucks.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

michgelsen said:


> In my opinion the 007 sounds wonderful in combination with a 717. It's not as if the 007 suddenly sucks.


 
 I listened to the 007 MK2.5s on the SRM252S both times i listened to them, and i actually really liked them enough to spend $2000CAN i didnt need to spend, despite contrary to popular belief on this website. I do have a Woo Audio WEE hooked up to a Bryston 2BLP, which is going to make them sound so much better no matter what, i think.


----------



## Michgelsen

thegadaffiduck said:


> (...) hooked up to a Bryston 2BLP, which is going to make them sound so much better no matter what, i think.


 
  
 That's one sexy amp!


----------



## vapman

Yeah, the 2BLP is a great one, I used to have one myself. When I had my last Stax system, I was very staunch about using an energizer in conjunction with a nice Crown amp


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

I love this Amp. This particular model I have was used by a Professional Recording Engineer in Canada for the better part of 30 years. It was well taken care of, and it had its caps replace within this Decade. This amplifier is so Pro that it doesnt even have a Power Switch; I use one of those Plug Adapters that people use with Coffee machines as a power switch lol. These make my JBL Studio 530s sing!


----------



## greggf

The 007 sound wonderful out of the 727II also.  That's why the STAX mafia ordered Tyll to crank the volume when he reviewed their amps, I assume because if you don't crank the volume, amping differences are minimal.


----------



## elrod

Has anyone had their srd-7 recapped? Was it worth doing?


----------



## JimL11

elrod said:


> Has anyone had their srd-7 recapped? Was it worth doing?


 

 AFAIK, the only caps in the SRD-7 are in the bias supply, which shouldn't affect the sound at all unless they are defective and have stopped working altogether.


----------



## Ampeezy

thegadaffiduck said:


> Same. I'm still waiting for my 007s in the mail. The two times I listened to them were just lovely. Can't wait


 
 Yup, very pleasant and transparent. I switched my optical cable out, and that was enough to make a noticeable difference in quality. I'm looking to get a usb bridge to get an I2s input into my dac. Now that should really get them singing.
  
 I also noticed you have the HD800S, do post a comparison if you can. I was considering it before I came across the sr-007


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

I did compare the 007s with my L300s. Both the HD800S and the 007s were a lot more spacious. I dont know for sure if the 800S beats these 007s in SS tho, but that can only be found out through direct comparison when i get it. I think no matter what, the 800S is going to have a drier, more analytical sound in comparison but thats not saying that the lowend isnt good, which it is! Honestly better extension than the L300 in the Lowest of the lows which surprised the hell out of me. There were SubBass notes i could hear in I Grieve with the 800S that I couldnt with the L300. The 007s have even better extension and more of it than both of those. Maybe the best low-end ive ever heard? Not ready to make that statement yet until i get my pair on my Amp hehe


----------



## Ampeezy

thegadaffiduck said:


> I did compare the 007s with my L300s. Both the HD800S and the 007s were a lot more spacious. I dont know for sure if the 800S beats these 007s in SS tho, but that can only be found out through direct comparison when i get it. I think no matter what, the 800S is going to have a drier, more analytical sound in comparison but thats not saying that the lowend isnt good, which it is! Honestly better extension than the L300 in the Lowest of the lows which surprised the hell out of me. There were SubBass notes i could hear in I Grieve with the 800S that I couldnt with the L300. The 007s have even better extension and more of it than both of those. Maybe the best low-end ive ever heard? Not ready to make that statement yet until i get my pair on my Amp hehe


 
 Sr-007 bass really growls without being bloated/flabby in my opinion. Treble extension currently is not where I would like it tbh, but we will see what the carbon running at 20ma output current has to say about that!


----------



## Feilong4

My SRM-300 driver unit finally arrived today. I received my SR-407 on Monday and the 4-day wait was killing me!
  
 This is my first time listening to/owning an electrostatic headphone/set up. I've heard dynamic, planars, and balanced armatures but never electrostatics.
  
 First impressions on sound:
  
 - Very similar tuning to AD2000X, though with more neutral tuning throughout with more bass presence 
 - Vocals sounded similar to the AD2000X, though I think they sound less congested and honky on the SR-407.
 - Vocals do seem to lack body in comparison to the T1's. I would listen to commentary on Youtube and notice the lack of body/bass in speech.
 - Probably the best treble performance I've yet heard on a headphone; T1's treble gets harsh/hot at times, I always felt AD2000X lacked a bit in the upper treble though they had great timbre. The SR-407 never felt bright nor lacking in the treble; it seems to be very detailed while not being overly emphatic in the treble
 - Bass impact seems soft; not necessarily a bad thing, but not a head-banger (which I don't recommend; more on that later)
 - I might prefer bass on dynamic drivers as it's more engaging and fun to listen to
 - Wider sounding than the AD2000X but not more so than the T1's
 - Very good separation of instruments; I did not experience a sense of congestion between instruments like I do on the AD2000X
 - Pretty easy-going sound; everything sounds "soft" in comparison to the T1's, where they seem to sound a lot more aggressive and engaging
  
 First impressions on build/design of SR-407:
  
 - Plastic =/
 - The ribbon cable is nice and flexible, but feels a bit cheap
 - Looks like an antique piece from a museum which i find good
 - The "Stax fart" is pretty annoying; hard to head-bang and REALLY hard to chew with food without noise; I cannot yawn without my lactose intolerant SR-407's deciding to let one rip. It's like a fart to the mouth, but in your ears. Not very pleasing. 
 - Fairly comfortable though they make my ears get hot pretty quick. Not very breathable pads. Velour pads have spoiled me.
 - Comfortable amount of clamp; honestly, no complaints about clamp (though I did get a used pair)
  
 First impressions on build/aesthetics of SRM-300:
  
 - Other than a (what I thought to be) decent price, I liked how these can double as a headphone stand. 
 - Very pleasing and simple design
 - All black with red power LED light looks pretty nice
 - Looks and feels very premium
 - Nothing on performance as it's my first driver unit, so I can't really compare it to other driver units.
  
 My biases:
 - I tend to lean towards brighter headphones, though I can appreciate warm headphones like the HD600
 - I really like my vocals, specifically female vocalists
 - I listen to a little bit of everything, though more of electronic, hip-hop, vocals, soundtracks, and J-pop.
 - I'm broke, so I think I see diminishing returns real quick. 
  
  
 My takeaway from this:
 - Build of SR-407 is ehh
 - Female vocals sound great
 - Best treble presentation I've yet heard (of course, I haven't heard all)
 - Easy-going sound
 - Driver unit looks very cool


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck




----------



## astrostar59

Feilong4
 
 Congrats in entering the world of Stax! I would think the amp will need to burn in, so expect some improvements over the next few weeks.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

ampeezy said:


> Sr-007 bass really growls without being bloated/flabby in my opinion. Treble extension currently is not where I would like it tbh, but we will see what the carbon running at 20ma output current has to say about that!


 
 Thats really hard for me to understand. My 007 has great treble. Not as pronounced or sparkly like the HD800S, but its very fast and detailed regardless. I know you possess the MK1 007s but with the new driver, so they should sound pretty much the same to the 2.5s right?


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

I got my Stax this morning, and after letting my Stax run for several hours on my Woo x Bryston, i have some quick thoughts on these vs an HD800S. (w/Jot)
  
 Song used: On The Coldest Winter Night ~ Kamelot
  
 Bass Extension: Stax 007 = HD800S
 Bass Amount: Stax 007 >> HD800S
 Midrange period: Stax 007 >>>>>> HD800S
 Treble Extension: HD800S = Stax 007
 Treble Amount/Sparkle: HD800S > Stax 007
 Treble Detail: uuuuuuuuuuuuuh don't make me decide.
 Instrument Separation: Stax 007 > HD800S
 Imaging: Stax 007 > HD800S
 Soundstage: HD800S >>>>>> Stax 007


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

feilong4 said:


> My SRM-300 driver unit finally arrived today. I received my SR-407 on Monday and the 4-day wait was killing me!
> 
> This is my first time listening to/owning an electrostatic headphone/set up. I've heard dynamic, planars, and balanced armatures but never electrostatics.
> 
> ...


 

 nice amp. I kinda just want one for the Aesthetics he he. Also, use a McDicks' straw from your happy meal to break the seal


----------



## Ampeezy

thegadaffiduck said:


> Thats really hard for me to understand. My 007 has great treble. Not as pronounced or sparkly like the HD800S, but its very fast and detailed regardless. I know you possess the MK1 007s but with the new driver, so they should sound pretty much the same to the 2.5s right?


 
 Treble is quite good, but I guess i'm being a tad anal lol. There is always room for improvement is all i'm saying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Enjoy them


----------



## paradoxper

ampeezy said:


> Treble is quite good, but I guess i'm being a tad anal lol. There is always room for improvement is all i'm saying
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Carbon should ameliorate your feelings.


----------



## Ampeezy

paradoxper said:


> Carbon should ameliorate your feelings.


 
 I sure hope so!


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

I that point i would get an L700, which is probably what im going to end up doing


----------



## MacedonianHero

ampeezy said:


> I sure hope so!


 
 Over your SRM-007TA, absolutely no need to hope...it will! BTW, love your avatar!


----------



## Ampeezy

Probably being quite shallow but damn stax has to change the lambda design. I seriously think more people would buy it if it looked a tad refined.


----------



## Ampeezy

macedonianhero said:


> Over your SRM-007TA, absolutely no need to hope...it will! BTW, love your avatar!


 
 very good to hear, I'll post a short impression when it comes in on tuesday. Thanks


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

ampeezy said:


> Probably being quite shallow but damn stax has to change the lambda design. I seriously think more people would buy it if it looked a tad refined.




I think the design is a beneficiary to the acoustical properties of the Stax line. The Lambda are an ugly girl you would feel awful not falling in love, because of her beautiful voice.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

Speaking of, Anyone have impressions of MK2.5 007s vs L700?


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

Sorry if anyone feels like i am spamming the crap out of this thread, but i should ask about these rings that were in behind the SR007 earpads, and why they matter.


----------



## Ampeezy

thegadaffiduck said:


> Sorry if anyone feels like i am spamming the crap out of this thread, but i should ask about these rings that were in behind the SR007 earpads, and why they matter.


 
 I believe they are what prop the earpads in place. Anyone feel free to further enlighten us


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

ampeezy said:


> I believe they are what prop the earpads in place. Anyone feel free to further enlighten us




Yeah i got that, but i was more concerned of whether or not they are for an acoustical or structural purpose, beyond just holding the earpads up all nice.


----------



## Tinkerer

They keep the earpads a certain distance from the driver. The headphones are usually more comfortable and sound better if you remove them so it's a common mod.


----------



## zolkis

thegadaffiduck said:


> Sorry if anyone feels like i am spamming the crap out of this thread, but i should ask about these rings that were in behind the SR007 earpads, and why they matter.


 
  
 As others said before, they (the springs) elevate the pads away from the plate, and also keep distance from the ear.
  
 I have tested a lot of times with and without them, with various combinations of pads filling, but every single time I liked more the sound without them.
  
 That applies to the 007 Mk1 and 007 Mk2 (current model) - note that the 007 Mk1 spring is slightly larger, and it's assembled in slightly different way than in the 007 Mk2.
  
 Even better, you can put 009 pads on the 007 (both Mk1 and Mk2) and they will sound more open - the 009 pads don't accept the springs, and they are not needed.
  
 My recommended minimal (and reversible) mod on the 007 Mk2 is this:
 1) remove the springs, then if you are brave,
 2) take out the filling from the ear pads and cut off the 4mm thick white styrofoam reinforcement from the foam filling. I used a ceramic knife for that and when finished, I could glue the foam back with the original glue layer (if I wanted).
 3) re-adjust the head band.
 The sound becomes cleaner and more open, bass will have more texture and definition, too. I have also measured them both ways and the measured difference is nearly none, while the sound character did change.
  
 You can combine this with Spritzer's port mod, and decide which combination you like most. FWIW I have left the port open on my Mk2.
  
 On the 007 Mk1, the best sound (and closest I've ever heard to the Stax SR-Omega) is (so far) obtained as follows:
 1) remove the springs,
 2) use the 009 pads, but cut off the 4mm styrofoam reinforcement and
 3) replace it with 2-2.5 mm thick carbon foam inserts: about 4-5 cm long and 15 mm wide crescent shaped one at the back side, and 2 cm long 10-15 mm wide on the front side.
 4) re-adjust the head band: start by making it wider and flatter and bent more inwards on the ends, then work your way backwards until you find the best bass impact with largest sound stage.
 The change in sound is absolutely shocking. It opens up, sounds more dynamic, much larger stage, and very smooth and natural. I thought my modded TH900 has killer bass, but this is better, and it's better at everything than any Stax I've heard this side of the SR-Omega (including the 009).
  
 Modding the 009 would IMHO make most sense with changing the cables to solid core pure copper and take care of the capacitance. The pad mods don't help the 009 as much as the 007's (the 009 is the most consistent, neutral and reference level Stax I have heard so far), but there is slight change into warmer sound with more bass impact if you do the mod above (you can leave out step 2 if you want, and just add the inserts below the white styrofoam disk but inside the leather pad). However, I would leave the 009 alone, it sounds pretty optimal in stock form. Eventually consider the cable change and/or use a darker/deeper/relaxed sounding source.
  
 IME all these converge in similar directions, towards the listening experience that I've heard with the SR-Omega, but approaching it in different ways and to different extent. The modded 007 Mk2 would be my choice for jazz and small chamber, perhaps for EDM too. The modded 007 Mk1 is good for everything, really, it makes everything sound good since it's so smooth and fluid while dynamic and big sounding, and sounds closest to the SR-Omega. The modded 009 is... well, a 009, with some flavors, and the results will depend more on the ancillary equipment, as it's very revealing. Each to his/her own.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

thegadaffiduck said:


> Speaking of, Anyone have impressions of MK2.5 007s vs L700?


----------



## zolkis

thegadaffiduck said:


> Speaking of, Anyone have impressions of MK2.5 007s vs L700?


 
  
 I think this was covered a few times, but my 2 cents based on A/B'ing them for quite some time:
 - the L700 sounds more open, more ethereal, with less body, and somewhat coarser highs (needs a smooth amp and source)
 - IMHO the 007 Mk2 (latest) is more coherent, with more body, more midbass and more realistic instrument sound, less treble level, and less grain (but less fluid than the 007 Mk1).
 I'd pick the 007 Mk2, but I can imagine many people would choose the L700 because the more open sound, and IMHO the L700 is better than most dynamic or planar headphones out there (below 2K certainly).
  
 Most Stax dealers have them both, so I'd really recommend listening to both in person.


----------



## RAFA

zolkis said:


> I think this was covered a few times, but my 2 cents based on A/B'ing them for quite some time:
> - the L700 sounds more open, more ethereal, with less body, and somewhat coarser highs (needs a smooth amp and source)
> - IMHO the 007 Mk2 (latest) is more coherent, with more body, more midbass and more realistic instrument sound, less treble level, and less grain (but less fluid than the 007 Mk1).
> I'd pick the 007 Mk2, but I can imagine many people would choose the L700 because the more open sound, and IMHO the L700 is better than most dynamic or planar headphones out there (below 2K certainly).
> ...


 
  
 Crazy, I am sitting here and listening to the SR303 / SRM 1/ MK-2 combination. The listening experience is so satisfying, that I almost cannot imagine, that there is someting even better out there.
  
 The music comes so liquid and effortless, like a calm river.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

zolkis said:


> I think this was covered a few times, but my 2 cents based on A/B'ing them for quite some time:
> - the L700 sounds more open, more ethereal, with less body, and somewhat coarser highs (needs a smooth amp and source)
> - IMHO the 007 Mk2 (latest) is more coherent, with more body, more midbass and more realistic instrument sound, less treble level, and less grain (but less fluid than the 007 Mk1).
> I'd pick the 007 Mk2, but I can imagine many people would choose the L700 because the more open sound, and IMHO the L700 is better than most dynamic or planar headphones out there (below 2K certainly).
> ...


 
 what do you mean by more open? As in soundstage?


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

zolkis said:


> As others said before, they (the springs) elevate the pads away from the plate, and also keep distance from the ear.
> 
> I have tested a lot of times with and without them, with various combinations of pads filling, but every single time I liked more the sound without them.
> 
> ...


 
 What does taking these metal things do to the sound specifically?


----------



## zolkis

thegadaffiduck said:


> what do you mean by more open? As in soundstage?




No, as opposite of dark sounding.


----------



## seaice

zolkis said:


> I think this was covered a few times, but my 2 cents based on A/B'ing them for quite some time:
> - the L700 sounds more open, more ethereal, with less body, and somewhat coarser highs (needs a smooth amp and source)
> - IMHO the 007 Mk2 (latest) is more coherent, with more body, more midbass and more realistic instrument sound, less treble level, and less grain (but less fluid than the 007 Mk1).
> I'd pick the 007 Mk2, but I can imagine many people would choose the L700 because the more open sound, and IMHO the L700 is better than most dynamic or planar headphones out there (below 2K certainly).
> ...


 
  
 Yes, I tend to agree with this, though it is just my first day with the SR-007 MK2 and I have owned SR-L700 and 009 longer.


----------



## catscratch

thegadaffiduck said:


> Sorry if anyone feels like i am spamming the crap out of this thread




Yes, you are. It all had been covered before.



thegadaffiduck said:


> Speaking of, Anyone have impressions of MK2.5 007s vs L700?




I listened to both a few days ago, though my Mk2 is the latest version that's supposedly better balanced than the SZ3 versions. I listened with the SRM-717. The L700 is brighter, more open, and on the 717, more dynamic. The SR-007 is more linear, more coherent, more detailed, and has better imaging. 

The L700 feels like it has less linear bass, with more bass rolloff in the deep bass and more emphasis in the mid and upper bass. Which means that when you listen to basslines on the L700, the lower the bass goes the quieter it gets, whereas on the 007 the bass sounds more linear. The mids on both are not too different to be honest, though the L700 has a bit more upper mid emphasis, and sometimes upper mid-heavy instruments will jump out of the mix more than on the 007. Whether or not that is natural is debatable, and I like the mids on both. The upper treble is notably more present on the L700, which has more sparkle in the highs in general, whereas the 007 sounds a bit dark up top (but we all knew that). The L700's does better than any previous Lambda in soundstage, but its soundstage is always large, whereas the 007's soundstage will vary in size depending on the recording. The L700 is very detailed, and on its own doesn't feel like it's leaving anything behind, but the 007 is even more detailed, with simply incredible microdetail. The L700 also sounds lush and very airy pretty much always, whereas the 007 is more textured and recording-dependent. With it, dry recordings will sound dry and lush ones lush. Dynamics are hard to comment on, because while the 717 is not the worst amp for the 007, it's still not quite enough.

My only real complaint with the L700 is not the sound, it's the comfort. There is too much pressure on the top of the earpad, and if you wear glasses they will be pressed into your temples leading to discomfort over time. It sounds very good however and its sonic flaws are minor.

The SR-007 is a higher caliber of headphone all around, offering more resolution and refinement, but it's harder to drive, and optimizing a 007 rig will be a lot more expensive. If I had no comfort issues with the L700 I would probably be quite happy with it, but the 007 does give you that extra 5% - at a lot more cost. And if you lean towards a brighter sound, go elsewhere.


----------



## joseph69

catscratch said:


> I listened to both a few days ago, though *my Mk2 is the latest version that's supposedly better balanced than the SZ3 versions.*


 
 I have an SZ3 from 2016. I thought the SZ3 is the latest version? 
 If not, what is the latest versions?


----------



## Ampeezy

I think the SZ2s were the mk2, the early SZ3s the mk2.5, and the latest SZ3 which has been dubbed the mk2.9


----------



## joseph69

ampeezy said:


> I think the SZ2s were the mk2, the early SZ3s the mk2.5, and the latest SZ3 which has been dubbed the mk2.9


 

 I'm really not too sure about that?
 But, I don't have much experience with the Stax models/versions, though.
  
 Also, I'm under the impression @catscratch is saying his isn't even an SZ3?
  
" though my Mk2 is the latest version that's supposedly better balanced *than the SZ3 versions*."


----------



## Ampeezy

joseph69 said:


> I'm really not too sure about that?
> But, I don't have much experience with the Stax models/versions, though.
> 
> Also, I'm under the impression @catscratch is saying his isn't even an SZ3?
> ...


 

 ​As far as I know, and could be wrong, the MK2s are the SZ-2 and SZ-3 versions. Now the latest update I believe has been called the MK2.9, and are still SZ-3 to my knowledge. So the OP could have a MK2 (Latest revision "MK2.9") that is better than the early versions of the SZ3. Someone could clarify further.


----------



## catscratch

Stax went from 70xxx and 71xxx serial numbers to SZ1 for the Mk1, SZ2 then SZ3 for the Mk2, and my latest version is an SZ2 again. But, there is absolutely no real consistency with Stax and serial numbers, so they really don't mean a thing. I wouldn't read too much into them, however there seems to be a consensus among some of us that the latest Mk2 version, whatever its serial numbers are, is the one to have at the moment.


----------



## joseph69

catscratch said:


> Stax went from 70xxx and 71xxx serial numbers to SZ1 for the Mk1, SZ2 then SZ3 for the Mk2, and my latest version is an SZ2 again. But, there is absolutely no real consistency with Stax and serial numbers, so they really don't mean a thing. I wouldn't read too much into them, however there seems to be a consensus among some of us that the latest Mk2 version, whatever its serial numbers are, is the one to have at the moment.


 
 I wouldn't have expect the SZ3 to go back to the SZ2.
 Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## joseph69

ampeezy said:


> ​As far as I know, and could be wrong, the MK2s are the SZ-2 and SZ-3 versions. Now the latest update I believe has been called the MK2.9, and are still SZ-3 to my knowledge. So the OP could have a MK2 (Latest revision "MK2.9") that is better than the early versions of the SZ3. Someone could clarify further.


 

 Stax models/versions are hard to lee up with!


----------



## Ampeezy

catscratch said:


> Stax went from 70xxx and 71xxx serial numbers to SZ1 for the Mk1, SZ2 then SZ3 for the Mk2, and my latest version is an SZ2 again. But, there is absolutely no real consistency with Stax and serial numbers, so they really don't mean a thing. I wouldn't read too much into them, however there seems to be a consensus among some of us that the latest Mk2 version, whatever its serial numbers are, is the one to have at the moment.


 
 My pair is SZ2, but they were sent in for driver replacements after they developed some channel imbalance. This was in January of this year so I believe I should have the latest drivers, which do not have the midbass hump some folk were complaining about. Very linear extended bass, and not emphasized at all.


joseph69 said:


> Stax models/versions are hard to lee up with!


 

 ​They sure are lol


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

Mk2.9? Im confused now. My stax has the serial # as SZ-3 1951, so i guess mine isnt that one...


----------



## zolkis

thegadaffiduck said:


> Mk2.9? Im confused now. My stax has the serial # as SZ-3 1951, so i guess mine isnt that one...




Rest assured, yours is a latest type, "good" Mk2.


----------



## lavendermist

Hello!
  
 I am an avid reader, but lazy poster in headfi. 
  
 I just (2 weeks ago) bought a Stax SR 007 headphone and I had to wait nearly 3 months to get it delivered from Japan to the european dealer, because he was out of stock.
  
 So I assume it is the one of the latest serial numbers and it is an SZ3 - 22xx.
  
 Btw. the sound is marvelous and I prefer it to the Mk1 and all other Staxes. I even like it much more than the 009 (sidenote: my listening levels are very low: ca. 63-67dBA measured with the microphone between ear and headphones).
  
 I mostly use it with a SRM-353x (volume up to 9 o'clock) and with a SRM-717 (volume from 9 upwards - mostly up to 10). IMHO at low levels the 353x is a very very good sounding amp for classical music, even for the 007.
  
 Hope this helps!
  
 Martin


----------



## troymadison

I really really really like the SR-X MK3  Reminds me of a different version of the K240DF <3


----------



## seaice

Quote:


thegadaffiduck said:


> Mk2.9? Im confused now. My stax has the serial # as SZ-3 1951, so i guess mine isnt that one...


 


zolkis said:


> Rest assured, yours is a latest type, "good" Mk2.


 
  
 Is there any significant serial number distinguishing "good" 007s from "bad" 007s? I have been searching this thread but found nothing.
  
 My 007 is SZ3-1186. Is it "good" or "bad" ? 2.5 or 2.9? I am confused.


----------



## JimL11

seaice said:


> Quote:
> 
> Is there any significant serial number distinguishing "good" 007s from "bad" 007s? I have been searching this thread but found nothing.
> 
> My 007 is SZ3-1186. Is it "good" or "bad" ? 2.5 or 2.9? I am confused.


 

 AFAIK there is no serial number that distinguishes the latest 007s, however, spritzer started talking about a Mk 2.9 in early 2015 so if you bought one since then you should be good.


----------



## zolkis

seaice said:


> Quote:
> 
> Is there any significant serial number distinguishing "good" 007s from "bad" 007s? I have been searching this thread but found nothing.
> 
> My 007 is SZ3-1186. Is it "good" or "bad" ? 2.5 or 2.9? I am confused.


 
  
 AFAIK it's based on the event around 2014 when Spritzer gave a second chance to the 007A or Mk2 and noticed (on HC) they sound better than before. With this, and the with port mod exalted by Bob Katz and Tyll, a legend was born. So as a rule, the ones manufactured from 2014-2015 (possibly also earlier) are susceptible to fall under this classification .
  
 Mine was a SZ3-15xx. I have compared it with older (14xx) and newer serials and they sounded the same. It reacted very well to the mods I described earlier.
  
 IMHO this thing about the serial numbers of the SZ3 007's is a bit overblown. However, there are definite and clear differences between the Mk1 70xxx  and later 007's that I have described earlier, but I paste the picture here. FR was taken with different SP levels, but the Mk1 sounded slightly louder. They are nearly identical.
  

  
Green: 007 Mk1 with 009 pads that contain stripped 007 foam + carbon foam inserts, and without the springs.
Red: 007 Mk2 with its own pads, without springs and stripped 007 foam (sounded the best).
 Disregard the response below 40 Hz (coupling artefacts) and above 5k Hz (reflection artefacts). The FR don't illustrate well the perceived sound differences. The Mk1 is somewhat smoother, slightly deeper bass extension, but somewhat softer bass impact, more open in the midrange (even though after mods the Mk2 opened up considerably), and with different treble structure.
  
 Probably there was a sourcing change for the diaphragm material for the 007, at least twice. For the first one, I don't  know exactly (others maybe do) when did it happen and whether was there an overlap with changing version majors (SZ1), and changing from the old style carbon box with ugly rubber corner to the round corner nicer boxes. Both have got theories in the past.
 I have the ugly box and 703xx, so I am pretty sure I have a Mk1, and with the diaphragm Stax have later also used for fixing broken SR-Omega drivers. When I have compared my modded 007 with the SR-Omega, they sounded very close, but still enough different (more elevated treble on the SR-Omega) that hints at different materials, although the diaphragm sizes and tensions are different, too.
  
 The last diaphragm change _likely_ coincides with the apparition of the SZ3 series, but I may be wrong on that (too) - somehow it doesn't add up to change materials without changing the major version. Also, it's _likely_ there was another diaphragm change between the first and the last.


----------



## paradoxper

Too much waxing surrounding mere speculation.


----------



## joseph69

seaice said:


> Quote:
> 
> Is there any significant serial number distinguishing "good" 007s from "bad" 007s? I have been searching this thread but found nothing.
> 
> My 007 is SZ3-1186.* Is it "good" or "bad" ?* 2.5 or 2.9? I am confused.


 
 How does it sound to you?
  
 I have a 2016 SZ3 that sounds fine to me. I removed the springs mainly because I found the rotating pads quite annoying, so by removing the springs the pads stay where I like them
 I also closed the bass port. Ay higher listening levels, I find my 007 to be an extremely solid performer, I just prefer the sound-signature of my 009 more.


----------



## seaice

Thanks guys! I already know that I prefer my 009 over SR-L700 (longterm) and I just bought used 007s to form my own opinion on 007. The 007 are interesting. After two days, I think that I prefer them over my SR-L700.


----------



## nepherte

joseph69 said:


> How does it sound to you?
> 
> I have a 2016 SZ3 that sounds fine to me. I removed the springs mainly because I found the rotating pads quite annoying, so by removing the springs the pads stay where I like them
> I also closed the bass port. Ay higher listening levels, I find my 007 to be an extremely solid performer, I just prefer the sound-signature of my 009 more.


 
  
 Any pointers to removing the springs to avoid the pads rotating? I find this highly annoying as well. Always have to double check whether the pads are in the correct position before putting them on. And after putting them off, there's no guarantee the pads stay that way.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

nepherte said:


> Any pointers to removing the springs to avoid the pads rotating? I find this highly annoying as well. Always have to double check whether the pads are in the correct position before putting them on. And after putting them off, there's no guarantee the pads stay that way.


 

 Zolkis previously pointed out that this makes them sound more open/cleaner and the bass more textured. i took one off, and i noticed the vocals had more air on one side, so this opted me to take the other one off. I though that there was a glariness in the upper mid/treble with them in, which made sense in my head because metal is big league reflective acoustically, so i opted to take it out because of this assumption as well. Needless to say i haven't felt the glariness since then.


----------



## nepherte

thegadaffiduck said:


> Zolkis previously pointed out that this makes them sound more open/cleaner and the bass more textured. i took one off, and i noticed the vocals had more air on one side, so this opted me to take the other one off. I though that there was a glariness in the upper mid/treble with them in, which made sense in my head because metal is big league reflective acoustically, so i opted to take it out because of this assumption as well. Needless to say i haven't felt the glariness since then.


 

 I was mainly asking whether there are any written instructions on how to do it


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

nepherte said:


> I was mainly asking whether there are any written instructions on how to do it


 
 literally just take off the pads, and you will find a big metal ring. in the middle of the cup. Then pull off. I posted a pic of what it looks like a few pages back


----------



## bmichels

Seems that there are quite some good MODs available for the SR007, but....* are there some (good) MODs for the SR009 ?   *


----------



## seaice

thegadaffiduck said:


> literally just take off the pads, and you will find a big metal ring. in the middle of the cup. Then pull off. I posted a pic of what it looks like a few pages back


 
  
 I may try it one day... just found the following video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q7aMtuRJ7c


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

seaice said:


> I may try it one day... just found the following video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q7aMtuRJ7c


 
 For warned getting the 007 pads back on is a really BIOTCHH


----------



## nepherte

thegadaffiduck said:


> For warned getting the 007 pads back on is a really BIOTCHH


 

 No kidding. The last few minutes I've been like "oh ****, I destroyed my already perfect sounding SR-007A with port mod for a stupid metal hinge!". Good thing I have the patience of a saint


----------



## bmichels

nepherte said:


> No kidding. The last few minutes I've been like "oh ****, I destroyed my already perfect sounding SR-007A with port mod for a stupid metal hinge!". Good thing I have the patience of a saint




So... Besides fixing the anowing pad rotation, do you Hear a sonic difference ?


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

Has anyone ever pad rolled with Stax 007s (other than 009 pads of course)?


----------



## joseph69

nepherte said:


> Any pointers to removing the springs to avoid the pads rotating? I find this highly annoying as well. Always have to double check whether the pads are in the correct position before putting them on. And after putting them off, there's no guarantee the pads stay that way.


 
 Sorry for the delayed response.
 I already read that you've got the springs off. Seriously, I'm blind in my right eye, and my left eye only has tunnel vision (no peripheral vision at all) and it took me maybe 30 minutes to get the pads off and back on beautifully. Once you get the pad started, simple slide the excess material in with a thin butter knife. Also put Scotch tape on the end of the butter knife to protect the black painted metal grills from scratching. This was a* tremendous* help and made the mod quite simple. 
  
 Also, the nice thing is that the pads will still rotate, but with much more resistance, so when you find the position you prefer, they will stay there.
  
 By the way, it was @zolkis who lead me to do remove the springs and the do the port mod, and I greatly appreciate him recommendations!


----------



## Whitigir

Hello guys ! I am happily joining Stax  . Now my Carbon amp is working, I just need to clean up the stuff and finish all the socket.

Noob question here, but is there different 009 generations as in similar to 007 ? Is there a real way to reduce "Stax Fart?" I am afraid it may damage the drivers ?


----------



## Ampeezy

whitigir said:


> Hello guys ! I am happily joining Stax
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Nice looking build! yeah that connector looks dodgy lol.


----------



## Whitigir

ampeezy said:


> Nice looking build! yeah that connector looks dodgy lol.




Lol, thank you, this is a female socket I grabbed as soon as I could find. It is not chassis mount kind, these will take a long time to order. But they are coming


----------



## astrostar59

whitigir said:


> Hello guys ! I am happily joining Stax
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Nice, and welcome to the Carbon camp! Did you source the boards from the other forum? And get some help. It is not an easy task building an electrostatic amp. Respect indeed.
  
 What DAC source are you feed the Carbon with?


----------



## Whitigir

astrostar59 said:


> Nice, and welcome to the Carbon camp! Did you source the boards from the other forum? And get some help. It is not an easy task building an electrostatic amp. Respect indeed.
> 
> What DAC source are you feed the Carbon with?




Yes'm, I bought boards from other forums and some helps too. I agree that it was no easy task, but I do have some background on electrical works  . Right now I am only feeding it analog signals from my Walkman Wm1Z. Still running it balanced, but I do need a dedicated DAC.


----------



## zolkis

whitigir said:


> Hello guys ! I am happily joining Stax
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice amp! Don't be afraid of the fart... I've also heard that the latest 009's are less bright, but... as with reference headphones out there that have some small glitch, there is and will be urban legends about later versions being better than older (or vice versa). I think the claimed 009 differences go into the urban legend category until sufficient evidence is gathered.
  
 What I'd try with the 009 is using other cables (e.g. 007 cable, or a copper cable) that allegedly reduces brightness. Too tricky/inconvenient to try. I won't do it...
 My pad mods for the 009 don't help the treble much: they mostly affect the bass and somewhat the mids.


----------



## Whitigir

zolkis said:


> Nice amp! Don't be afraid of the fart... I've also heard that the latest 009's are less bright, but... as with reference headphones out there that have some small glitch, there is and will be urban legends about later versions being better than older (or vice versa). I think the claimed 009 differences go into the urban legend category until sufficient evidence is gathered.
> 
> What I'd try with the 009 is using other cables (e.g. 007 cable, or a copper cable) that allegedly reduces brightness. Too tricky/inconvenient to try. I won't do it...
> My pad mods for the 009 don't help the treble much: they mostly affect the bass and somewhat the mids.




I agree about the cables, but that is a PiTA ...lol...better leave as is. Stax Fart is very annoying, the sound is loud! Dang it


----------



## dubharmonic

whitigir said:


> I agree about the cables, but that is a PiTA ...lol...better leave as is. Stax Fart is very annoying, the sound is loud! Dang it




I've yet to hear a Stax fart! I'm told that the new Lambdas have ports that don't allow a seal to form.


----------



## Whitigir

dubharmonic said:


> I've yet to hear a Stax fart! I'm told that the new Lambdas have ports that don't allow a seal to form.




So supposedly we better port the ear pad ? Lol


----------



## seaice

astrostar59 said:


> What DAC source are you feed the Carbon with?


 
  
 I know that this question is for someone else but I have more observations for you:
  
 I prefer: Audio Note 4.1>Carbon>009 over Schiit Yggdrasil>Carbon>009
  
 But my source preference is different with 007mkII: After 3 days with 007, I tend to prefer Schiit Yggdrasil>Carbon>007mkII over Audio Note 4.1>Carbon>007mkII
  
 I may have correct the later statement in the future but I am 100% sure about the first one. To me, the Yggdrasil>Carbon>009 setup is sometimes a little bit "treble sharp".


----------



## dubharmonic

whitigir said:


> So supposedly we better port the ear pad ? Lol


 

 Some owners have been, apparently.


----------



## Rossliew

seaice said:


> I know that this question is for someone else but I have more observations for you:
> 
> I prefer: Audio Note 4.1>Carbon>009 over Schiit Yggdrasil>Carbon>009
> 
> ...




I don't have a Carbon yet but I have the Audio Note dac4.0 and yes I do find it a bit smooth and soft around the edges. Can be somewhat tuned with tube rolling or cable swapping. The schiit is more forward sounding and hence gives a toe tapping excitement when listening. I have the gungnir DS but it sounds pretty good .


----------



## astrostar59

seaice said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > What DAC source are you feed the Carbon with?
> ...


 

 Hi seaice
 Interesting. I now have the Audio Note DAC 5 (UK) which I bought used. It is quite old (2008) but the current version, as Audio Note haven't created a new model since to replace it. That is rumoured to be a discrete board instead of chip based, but no info on progress for a while.
  
 The DAC 5 is insanely expensive new really (I paid well under list). I used to think it was too expensive TBH, but since have changed my mind, after demoing other DACs in the £15K-22K range. And I was going to move DACs again but have since decided to stay with the DAC 5. There is so much it gets right, so undigital and natural. And being able to tube roll has been great to tune my system for the Carbon and 009s plus my horn speakers. I also changed the output caps. I play it loud and it is so damb smooth in the treble, a real treat after my 20+ year love / hate with digital.
  
 One thing that did bring benefits as well that might be worth you looking at is loosing the USB. I went Rednet AOIP and it was a good move. That would boost both your DACs IMO. I feed 44.1 or 96K depending on the file sample rate, to the Rednet and then to the DAC i.e. bit perfect, no messing, no EQ, no filters, no upsampling.
  
 On the 007s, I do use EQ though, about 4dB from 6Hz up to 20KHz, it seems to wakes them up and balances the response, less of a dark signature. The current 007A is great I think, maybe 90% of the 009s IMO, and a bargain for the performance. I use DMG EQuick inside Audirvana+ for that EQ.


----------



## hpeter

thegadaffiduck said:


> nice amp. I kinda just want one for the Aesthetics he he. *Also, use a McDicks' straw from your happy meal to break the sea*l



i put two 8mm heatshrinks with glue (hard to squeeze) under 207 pad... such deep bottom.... :basshead:


----------



## astrostar59

rossliew said:


> seaice said:
> 
> 
> > I know that this question is for someone else but I have more observations for you:
> ...


 

 There are more tweaks to be had on the DAC 4.1 kit.


----------



## hpeter

zolkis said:


> My recommended minimal (and reversible) mod on the 007 Mk2 is this:
> 1) remove the springs, then if you are brave,
> 2) take out the filling from the ear pads and cut off the 4mm thick white styrofoam reinforcement from the foam filling. I used a ceramic knife for that and when finished, I could glue the foam back with the original glue layer (if I wanted).
> 3) re-adjust the head band.
> The sound becomes cleaner and more open, bass will have more texture and definition, too. I have also measured them both ways and the measured difference is nearly none, while the sound character did change.


 styro? that material is hard, i cannot imagine putting a hard material under leather - seal will suffer , no ?


----------



## zolkis

seaice said:


> I prefer: Audio Note 4.1>Carbon>009 over Schiit Yggdrasil>Carbon>009
> But my source preference is different with 007mkII: After 3 days with 007, I tend to prefer Schiit Yggdrasil>Carbon>007mkII over Audio Note 4.1>Carbon>007mkII
> I may have correct the later statement in the future but I am 100% sure about the first one. To me, the Yggdrasil>Carbon>009 setup is sometimes a little bit "treble sharp".


 
  
 The treble is one thing. The question I always ask myself when comparing two systems: is there a tonality difference (most noticeable with voices and wind instruments), i.e. does one sound in a deeper, more relaxed tone than the other.  If no, I analyse other traits, e.g. richness vs naturalness of tone, attack, decay, ambience, etc.
  
 If there is a tonality difference, so far always the one with the deeper tone was the better one for me, usually also paired with better low level acoustic information retrieval (do not confuse it with treble or midbass bump). The other one usually has a hardness in the sound that is often perceived as a kind of more upbeat tonality.
  
 I have found this is true for speaker drivers, headphone drivers, electronic equipment, and even cables. It may be a personal preference, but it's been a good guide for me.


----------



## zolkis

hpeter said:


> styro? that material is hard, i cannot imagine putting a hard material under leather - seal will suffer , no ?


 
  
 It's soft, but more firm than the upper, thick soft foam part. It's a plastic-rubbery material with small closed cells, perhaps not styrol, but it's close. It's for keeping the pads firm at the base and it's glued to the upper, soft foam part.
  
 The seal depends on the leather pressing against the head/ear, since the seal between the leather and the metal plate will always be better. The 007 has 2 metallic plates (holding the leather flap between them) but without being secured with 6 screws like with the 009. Therefore the 009 seal at the plate side will always be better.
  
 However, seal is only one contributing factor in the sound. The material used inside the pads makes a lot of difference in the sound, so far with every headphone I have tried, to different extent, and each tends to have a different optimum for foam density and micro-structure. The best macro-property to optimize seems to be the mass inside the ear pads: there is an optimum for a given kind. Dynamic headphones tend to sound best with carbon foam filling (lower mass per volume, given the specific dimensional constraints). Stax headphones tend to sound better with their original soft foam pads, with thin carbon foam inserts.
  
 I don't think I could deduce any of these, quite the contrary, I noticed the differences in sound, and the above are my best guess (speculation) of what might be the cause and how to control it.


----------



## Ampeezy

thegadaffiduck said:


> For warned getting the 007 pads back on is a really BIOTCHH


 

 ​Like someone asked, any change in sonic character after you removed the ring?


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

ampeezy said:


> ​Like someone asked, any change in sonic character after you removed the ring?


 
 at least on the MK2s, treble is more coherent, maybe more air, and the glariness problem i had is gone. Someone said more bass texture, but I'm not sure if that was before or after he added the Styrofoam to his headset. Bass sounds fine to me either way


----------



## Ampeezy

thegadaffiduck said:


> at least on the MK2s, treble is more coherent, maybe more air, and the glariness problem i had is gone. Someone said more bass texture, but I'm not sure if that was before or after he added the Styrofoam to his headset. Bass sounds fine to me either way


 

 ​Sounds good, any tips on putting the pads back on? Also, does removing the spring really affect the earpad placement much? in terms of its elevation above the drivers.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

ampeezy said:


> ​Sounds good, any tips on putting the pads back on? Also, does removing the spring really affect the earpad placement much? in terms of its elevation above the drivers.


 
 Maybe a little bit close? I have large ears so its hard for me to know for sure.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

catscratch said:


> Yes, you are. It all had been covered before.
> I listened to both a few days ago, though my Mk2 is the latest version that's supposedly better balanced than the SZ3 versions. I listened with the SRM-717. The L700 is brighter, more open, and on the 717, more dynamic. The SR-007 is more linear, more coherent, more detailed, and has better imaging.
> 
> The L700 feels like it has less linear bass, with more bass rolloff in the deep bass and more emphasis in the mid and upper bass. Which means that when you listen to basslines on the L700, the lower the bass goes the quieter it gets, whereas on the 007 the bass sounds more linear. The mids on both are not too different to be honest, though the L700 has a bit more upper mid emphasis, and sometimes upper mid-heavy instruments will jump out of the mix more than on the 007. Whether or not that is natural is debatable, and I like the mids on both. The upper treble is notably more present on the L700, which has more sparkle in the highs in general, whereas the 007 sounds a bit dark up top (but we all knew that). The L700's does better than any previous Lambda in soundstage, but its soundstage is always large, whereas the 007's soundstage will vary in size depending on the recording. The L700 is very detailed, and on its own doesn't feel like it's leaving anything behind, but the 007 is even more detailed, with simply incredible microdetail. The L700 also sounds lush and very airy pretty much always, whereas the 007 is more textured and recording-dependent. With it, dry recordings will sound dry and lush ones lush. Dynamics are hard to comment on, because while the 717 is not the worst amp for the 007, it's still not quite enough.
> ...


 
 based on that statement on soundstage, would you say the L700 has more or less soundstage than the 007 overall?


----------



## nepherte

bmichels said:


> So... Besides fixing the anowing pad rotation, do you Hear a sonic difference ?


 
  
 Comfort seems to have slightly increased (it seemed like this was bothering u a bit during our latest listening session). Regarding sonic differences, the jury is still out. All I can say is for sure it must sound like the metal springs have been removed, because they are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


joseph69 said:


> Sorry for the delayed response.
> I already read that you've got the springs off. Seriously, I'm blind in my right eye, and my left eye only has tunnel vision (no peripheral vision at all) and it took me maybe 30 minutes to get the pads off and back on beautifully. Once you get the pad started, simple slide the excess material in with a thin butter knife. Also put Scotch tape on the end of the butter knife to protect the black painted metal grills from scratching. This was a* tremendous* help and made the mod quite simple.
> 
> Also, the nice thing is that the pads will still rotate, but with much more resistance, so when you find the position you prefer, they will stay there.
> ...


 
  
 Haha. Apparantly I had more luck, after I figured how exactly the ear pads fit on the headphone, it was a matter of minutes (no tools involved). If I had only paid attention to that _before_ I pulled of the ear pads...


----------



## catscratch

thegadaffiduck said:


> based on that statement on soundstage, would you say the L700 has more or less soundstage than the 007 overall?




Soundstage is not a "more" or "less" sort of thing. The 007's soundstage is different. It's more recording dependent, usually smaller but sometimes bigger, and the imaging is more accurate. The L700 does give you more of a frontal image thanks to the angled drivers, whereas the 007 is more in your head and like a traditional headphone. I like the 007 more, but there are merits to the L700's way of doing things too, it's more speaker-like and will probably please somebody that hates the headphone in-your-head sensation more than the 007.


----------



## dubharmonic

catscratch said:


> Soundstage is not a "more" or "less" sort of thing. The 007's soundstage is different. It's more recording dependent, usually smaller but sometimes bigger, and the imaging is more accurate. The L700 does give you more of a frontal image thanks to the angled drivers, whereas the 007 is more in your head and like a traditional headphone. I like the 007 more, but there are merits to the L700's way of doing things too, it's more speaker-like and will probably please somebody that hates the headphone in-your-head sensation more than the 007.




I've noticed the same characteristics with the L500.


----------



## vapman

Do the modern Lambda-looking models still have the 6-7k weirdness old Lambdas did? (i had a Pro and a Spirit)


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

vapman said:


> Do the modern Lambda-looking models still have the 6-7k weirdness old Lambdas did? (i had a Pro and a Spirit)




I will have to say in the case of the L300s only that they do not. They have a less of a weirdness in that area than even the 800S. Sound very pleasant sounding. I cannot speak for the other New Lambdas but im sure theyve also made a significant improvement.


----------



## vapman

thegadaffiduck said:


> I will have to say in the case of the L300s only that they do not. They have a less of a weirdness in that area than even the 800S. Sound very pleasant sounding. I cannot speak for the other New Lambdas but im sure theyve also made a significant improvement.


 
 Have you heard either of the two i had before? That's good to hear, though!


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

vapman said:


> Have you heard either of the two i had before? That's good to hear, though!


 
 I heard the 207s (or the 407s cant remember), and i had a problem with their upper mids. Sounded kinda trebily and unnatural in the vocals if i remember correctly. The new series sounds much much better in that area thats for darn sure.


----------



## Whitigir

Oh gawd! Who says 009 lacks Bass ? This is awesome bass


----------



## LaCuffia

whitigir said:


> Oh gawd! Who says 009 lacks Bass ? This is awesome bass




What no Utopia dreams anymore ?  Looks like you got Stax fever.


----------



## Whitigir

lacuffia said:


> What no Utopia dreams anymore ?  Looks like you got Stax fever.




lol, Utopia is in the box. I love it though


----------



## LaCuffia

I don't blame you. The 009 is legendary. Haven't heard it myself but one day....had some Lambda series set ups though and liked them a lot.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

Guys i have bad news..... I went back and forth between my 2 pairs of Stax..... and..... I genuinely like my L300s over my 007s as far as forward presentation, staging (not wider soundstage, but just the way its presented), engagement, and comfort is concerned. Yes you heard right. i think the L300s are more comfortable than the 007s. I just cant get by the elastic head strap thing, and that the 007s don't pivot to the subtle angles of your head at all (you have to bend the metal head straps for it to get the seal. I would rather have the headphone touch my head completely, rather than have a headphone barley touch me and pressure me on one or both sides, if you know what i mean? It's just the way my head and ears are shaped dont have this sort of thing in my favor....
  
 Who wants to buy my 007s to fund L700s?


----------



## vapman

thegadaffiduck said:


> Guys i have bad news..... I went back and forth between my 2 pairs of Stax..... and..... I genuinely like my L300s over my 007s as far as forward presentation, staging (not wider soundstage, but just the way its presented), engagement, and comfort is concerned. Yes you heard right. i think the L300s are more comfortable than the 007s. I just cant get by the elastic head strap thing, and that the 007s don't pivot to the subtle angles of your head at all (you have to bend the metal head straps for it to get the seal. I would rather have the headphone touch my head completely, rather than have a headphone barley touch me and pressure me on one or both sides, if you know what i mean? It's just the way my head and ears are shaped dont have this sort of thing in my favor....
> 
> Who wants to buy my 007s to fund L700s?


 
 What's bad news? sell the 007, get money.
 Spend the money on a better amp.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

vapman said:


> What's bad news? sell the 007, get money.
> Spend the money on a better amp.




Sell for moar stax (the L700s)
Nah but the issue is i spent all this money and have this oh crap moment


----------



## astrostar59

thegadaffiduck said:


> Guys i have bad news..... I went back and forth between my 2 pairs of Stax..... and..... I genuinely like my L300s over my 007s as far as forward presentation, staging (not wider soundstage, but just the way its presented), engagement, and comfort is concerned. Yes you heard right. i think the L300s are more comfortable than the 007s. I just cant get by the elastic head strap thing, and that the 007s don't pivot to the subtle angles of your head at all (you have to bend the metal head straps for it to get the seal. I would rather have the headphone touch my head completely, rather than have a headphone barley touch me and pressure me on one or both sides, if you know what i mean? It's just the way my head and ears are shaped dont have this sort of thing in my favor....
> 
> Who wants to buy my 007s to fund L700s?


 

 Which 007 do you have? The current MK2 (around 2016 on) 007 is much faster and open than the previous MK2s. Just way better IMO. Also it needs lots of power, maybe the Woo Wee can be upgraded? Anyway, my point is the 007 will scale a lot, there is more to be had out of it.


----------



## Michgelsen

And it's a known fact that everyone needs to bend the metal head straps to get a good fit / seal.


----------



## Whitigir

michgelsen said:


> And it's a known fact that everyone needs to bend the metal head straps to get a good fit / seal.




Really ? I haven't blended anything yet ?


----------



## zolkis

You can't bend the 009 head band. The comment referred to adjusting the head bands for the 007. It's a must indeed.


----------



## joseph69

thegadaffiduck said:


> Guys i have bad news..... I went back and forth between my 2 pairs of Stax..... and..... I genuinely like my L300s over my 007s.


 
 This is not bad news, it's called preference.
 The good news is someone will get a discount on an 007!


----------



## Jones Bob

zolkis said:


> You can't bend the 009 head band.




I beg to differ......


----------



## zolkis

You can only bend the 009 head bands very slowly and carefully, with very minor variations. It's really not meant to be bent. IMHO it would be wrong to convey the idea that it can be bent, as it may result in damaging the headphones if someone assumes they were meant that way.
  
 In turn, the 007 headbands can be very well adjusted, even separately for the 2 headbands, resulting in different angle of the driver housing. It is meant to be adjusted.


----------



## Jones Bob

To get the best SQ possible out of the SR-009 optimized to my own head, I had to bend the arc. The SR-009 pads are too easily compressed, and bending the arc has several advantages over One Size Fits All. It helps in not only optimizing the seal, but also better positions the diaphragm to the ear. Same as with the SR-007.


----------



## Trance_Gott

I'm searching for a Stax SR007 MK1 in good condition.
If someone would to sell one please send me a PM. Prefer EU location.


----------



## Whitigir

If anyone wonder how Utopia does fair against Stax 009 out of it most Native Amp , the Carbon. Utopia is holding up very well. Dynamically punchy, closer and more forward vocal, soundstage is a bit smaller. But this can be improved by cables and your system. TA-ZH1ES is amazing with Utopia, and so is WM1Z. But from comparing both from WM1Z, the 009 has more expansive soundstage, the dynamic is amazing on Utopia but sub bass is more beautiful on 009 and bass balances are more beautiful on 009. This doesn't mean the Utopia has any bass weirdness or any short. It is just that both has a bit different flavor. Also, it doesn't mean Stax is lacking any bass or dynamic punches in comparison either  . In my opinion, Stax 009 is amazing 

Utopia deserve the throne of the best Dynamic headphones on the market ATM yet. It doesn't need anything heavy weight champ like Stax 009 does, it can easily be driven by any thing . Standing toes to toes with 009 and it carbon ? That is amazing. For all that said, if you want more speed + finesse and beauty of touches here and there. 009 system is the absolute way to go .....

All of a sudden....I think Utopia is a bit cheap for it asking price roflmao


----------



## vapman

thegadaffiduck said:


> Sell for moar stax (the L700s)
> Nah but the issue is i spent all this money and have this oh crap moment


 
 No sir you will most likely derive more enjoyment from better amp and same stax.
  
 Take it from me and many others itt.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

vapman said:


> No sir you will most likely derive more enjoyment from better amp and same stax.
> 
> Take it from me and many others itt.




I have it plugged into a Bryston and a Wee.


----------



## vapman

thegadaffiduck said:


> I have it plugged into a Bryston and a Wee.


 
 A great choice and don't get me wrong, a good energizer can do amazing things (I only use STAX SRD though as wee's can dual function as a toaster from what i have heard!)
  
 (I actually long ago in this thread was militant about using only my SRD energizer and either Hafler or Crown power amps.)
  
 but then you hear a KGSSHV or something and your ears know right away where that extra $ went.
  
 Just trying to help offer alternate viewpoints my man


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

vapman said:


> A great choice and don't get me wrong, a good energizer can do amazing things (I only use STAX SRD though as wee's can dual function as a toaster from what i have heard!)
> 
> (I actually long ago in this thread was militant about using only my SRD energizer and either Hafler or Crown power amps.)
> 
> ...


 
 I've never experianced my WEE ever getting HOT. My Bryston 2BLP does get warm, but its nothing to cry over. It has to do with the heatshrinks, and its partially class A i think.


----------



## Whitigir

Kgsshv Carbon is amazing  . Can not thanks Kevin Enough for this amazing design


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

whitigir said:


> Kgsshv Carbon is amazing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I think i will skip getting a $6000 amp. It makes more sense with my set to have a L700 at this point, i realize.


----------



## Whitigir

thegadaffiduck said:


> I think i will skip getting a $6000 amp. It makes more sense with my set to have a L700 at this point, i realize.




He has this one for $4600 ? http://www.mjolnir-audio.com/products/


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

whitigir said:


> He has this one for $4600 ? http://www.mjolnir-audio.com/products/


 
 Oh i was looking at the special edition


----------



## Whitigir

thegadaffiduck said:


> Oh i was looking at the special edition




Holy ! Yeah, you are right ! . That one is very special indeed


----------



## joseph69

whitigir said:


> Utopia is holding up very well.
> All of a sudden....I think Utopia is a bit cheap for it asking price roflmao


 
 I had the Utopia 2x (in home). The first time I had them for 1 day and the second time I borrowed them from The Cable Company for 16 days. I drove them with my GS-Xmk2/Holo Spring 3 using JRiver software. Much more than sufficient enough for the Utopia.
  
 My apologies to Utopia owners, but I can't for the life of me understand the hype about these headphones. In no/way/shape or form did I feel these should even be considered a match for the 009/007MK2. I follow the Elear/Utopia thread because it amazes me as to what people are hearing. I know we all hear differently and have different tastes in sound, but to me these sound like a good headphone, and that's about it. If I liked them enough, I would only be willing to pay $1-1.5K for them as well.
  
 Again, please take no offense, obviously these aren't for me in any way.  
 I'm also glad you enjoyed them as many do!


----------



## Whitigir

joseph69 said:


> I had the Utopia 2x (in home). The first time I had them for 1 day and the second time I borrowed them from The Cable Company for 16 days. I drove them with my GS-Xmk2/Holo Spring 3 using JRiver software. Much more than sufficient enough for the Utopia.
> 
> My apologies to Utopia owners, but I can't for the life of me understand the hype about these headphones. In no/way/shape or form did I feel these should even be considered a match for the 009/007MK2. I follow the Elear/Utopia thread because it amazes me as to what people are hearing. I know we all hear differently and have different tastes in sound, but to me these sound like a good headphone, and that's about it. If I liked them enough, I would only be willing to pay $1-1.5K for them as well.
> 
> ...




No worry about that, Utopia has it own weakness...hence the driven force for me to go all out and get 009 and my Carbon . I posted the weakness in the Utopia own thread. I only admire the Utopia for it easy to drive solution while having the high-end performances.

I agreed about 009. It is phenomenal. I am glad I ended my journey this early and get my 009  so glad! The only weakness here is "stationary only"


----------



## joseph69

whitigir said:


> No worry about that, Utopia has it own weakness...hence the driven force for me to go all out and get 009 and my Carbon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, I just don't find the Utopia sounding "Hi-End" in any way…don't know what it is? Sometimes after reading everyones impressions of the Utopia, I often wonder did I miss something? Or did I get a defected Utopia? But I'm sure I didn't miss anything and pretty sure they weren't defective, I just don't care for them.
  
 Congratulations on the 009/Carbon, enjoy!


----------



## Trance_Gott

Happy new Utopia owner here.
Settling from SR009 to Utopia. Had the Stax flagship about 2 years and driving them from KGSS and Carbon. No doubt it is technically the best headphone but it is not without flaws. The Utopias tonality is spot on. The 009 is too bright and bass has a lot lower slam and punch then the Utopia. Speed is on par and that is the great story about the Utopia. It sounds so speedy and dynamic and you can drive them without problems from DAPs.
The soundstage is smaller but more pin point accuracy then 009!
I also have the SR007 MK2 SZ2xxx which sounds much warmer and fuller then SR009 but technically not with the transient response of the SR009. 
In the end I prefer for my music Rock & Metal the Utopia and SR007. But I had funny 2 years with the awesome SR009. Maybe for Jazz and Classical a better choice but for my music not the best choice.


----------



## Ampeezy

trance_gott said:


> Happy new Utopia owner here.
> Settling from SR009 to Utopia. Had the Stax flagship about 2 years and driving them from KGSS and Carbon. No doubt it is technically the best headphone but it is not without flaws. The Utopias tonality is spot on. The 009 is too bright and bass has a lot lower slam and punch then the Utopia. Speed is on par and that is the great story about the Utopia. It sounds so speedy and dynamic and you can drive them without problems from DAPs.
> The soundstage is smaller but more pin point accuracy then 009!
> I also have the SR007 MK2 SZ2xxx which sounds much warmer and fuller then SR009 but technically not wit the transient response of the SR009. In the end i prefer for my music Rock & Metal the Utopia and SR007. But i had funny 2 years with the awesome SR009. Maybe for Jazz and Classical a better choice but for my music not the best choice.


 
 Went for the sr-007 for similar reasons. Although, if I happen to have money lying around i might splurge and add the sr-009 to the collection.


----------



## Whitigir

I do not have any treble issue with my 009 and Carbon . Good to hear the feedback from you. 20mA is plenty . I can also see why you love Utopia with Rock and Metal. In fact, it is the best for those genres


----------



## Trance_Gott

whitigir said:


> I do not have any treble issue with my 009 and Carbon . Good to hear the feedback from you. 20mA is plenty . I can also see why you love Utopia with Rock and Metal. In fact, it is the best for those genres



I had no problems with the highs. The highs are awesome with no peaks maybe the best of the best. But the tonality in summary is too bright. And that disturb me in many records. Don't get me wrong there are records from Fates Warning or the older Dream Theaters which are great cinema with the SR009. But in the end with the Utopia the brighter and thinner metal records sound a lot fuller and with more punch.
That is also the same with SR007!


----------



## buzzlulu

Can any of the Mjolnir amps be used with regular headphones? (might be a silly question)


----------



## paradoxper

Buzzlulu, you are going to be looking at the moar bettar Verto slop for that use case.


----------



## Ampeezy

buzzlulu said:


> Can any of the Mjolnir amps be used with regular headphones? (might be a silly question)


 
 Yes the last one on his product page, the Pure Bipolar can be used with a balanced xlr headphone


----------



## Whitigir

ampeezy said:


> Yes the last one on his product page, the Pure Bipolar can be used with a balanced xlr headphone




I think he meant to ask that could any of the Stax amplifier be used with regular headphones ? I could be wrong, but the answer is, No


----------



## buzzlulu

paradoxper said:


> Buzzlulu, you are going to be looking at the moar bettar Verto slop for that use case.




????


----------



## buzzlulu

ampeezy said:


> Yes the last one on his product page, the Pure Bipolar can be used with a balanced xlr headphone




Thanks


----------



## paradoxper

buzzlulu said:


> ????


 
 Asking your question in a thread related to stats seemed silly to be directed towards dynamic drive solely.


----------



## Quixote79

paradoxper said:


> Buzzlulu, you are going to be looking at the moar bettar Verto slop for that use case.


 

 me think of course he can use a regular lamdba or anys other regular stax - why you have to make things complicate?


----------



## Quixote79

whitigir said:


> I do not have any treble issue with my 009 and Carbon . Good to hear the feedback from you. 20mA is plenty
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Me hear you need moar voltage swing than 20Ma - maybe thin sound is prefered?


----------



## paradoxper

quixote79 said:


> me think of course he can use a regular lamdba or anys other regular stax - why you have to make things complicate?


 
 He did not ask about using a Lambda or regular Stax, smart ass. 
  
 Complications arise from the implications of this being a stat thread.
  
 I mentioned the Verto which can drive stats or dynamics equally as poorly.


----------



## Quixote79

paradoxper said:


> He did not ask about using a Lambda or regular Stax, smart ass.
> 
> Complications arise from the implications of this being a stat thread.
> 
> I mentioned the Verto which can drive stats or dynamics equally as poorly.


 

 what is then the benefit driving both polly?


----------



## Ampeezy

quixote79 said:


> what is then the benefit driving both polly?


 
 lol, what is happening here. Please stop


----------



## astrostar59

quixote79 said:


> paradoxper said:
> 
> 
> > He did not ask about using a Lambda or regular Stax, smart ass.
> ...


 

 I am in a parallel universe here, where is the exit.....


----------



## Ampeezy

Sorry for the poor setup but for now it'll have to do. Carbon sounds very good, very noticeable step up from the srm 007TA. Getting better and better with each song


----------



## Rossliew

ampeezy said:


> Sorry for the poor setup but for now it'll have to do. Carbon sounds very good, very noticeable step up from the srm 007TA. Getting better and better with each song




Cool! Did you purchase lolligager's Carbon?


----------



## Ampeezy

rossliew said:


> Cool! Did you purchase lolligager's Carbon?




Yup, that's the one!


----------



## astrostar59

ampeezy said:


> Sorry for the poor setup but for now it'll have to do. Carbon sounds very good, very noticeable step up from the srm 007TA. Getting better and better with each song


 
 Nice. I think you will find more as time goes on. The change from my SRM-717 to my KGSShv was big, just more of everything that is good, then again with the KGSShv Carbon. One caviet I would say, you will hear much more of what is going on upstream, so that may lead to some more changes, as it did for me. But basically all uphill from now on IMO.


----------



## Whitigir

ampeezy said:


> Sorry for the poor setup but for now it'll have to do. Carbon sounds very good, very noticeable step up from the srm 007TA. Getting better and better with each song




What DAC are u using ?


----------



## Ampeezy

whitigir said:


> What DAC are u using ?


 

 ​That is the Gustard x20 Pro


----------



## audiobean

Just thought I'd post a picture of my Stax addiction. I have the 207's with lambskin ear pads and the srm-600 Limited Edition [top right]. Those pair up quite nicely. I am awaiting the arrival of my 007a, which seem to fit my tastes (and means haha) over the 009, time will tell.


----------



## Shure or bust

I'm getting the L-700. How is the 353x ? The rest of there flag ship amps are pretty old. I thought i might as well get the newest releases.


----------



## Ampeezy

353x is one of the better Stax amps which came from one of the reputable builders of the carbon. However it is a apparently bright with the L700. Caveat though is that I haven't heard that setup, only what has been said about it


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

I bought the L700 last night. Zero regrets, except my Credit Card and i arent on speaking terms.


----------



## Ampeezy

thegadaffiduck said:


> I bought the L700 last night. Zero regrets, except my Credit Card and i arent on speaking terms.




Nice, where did you get them from? Pricejapan?


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

ampeezy said:


> Nice, where did you get them from? Pricejapan?


 
 I also bought my L300s from this guy. The 3100 set had a faulty amp, but he kept in good communication with the warranty process. Great Guy... The payment is still pending on mine so it will be likely marked as sold soon
  
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/182262829428?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## organ_donor

I now have a KGSSHV pairing with L700 and I find it too bright for some of the songs, EDM is fine though. But I read that KGSSHV is good to pair with SR009 which confused me abit. I thought SR009s is even brighter and have leaner mid. Please enlighten me


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

You gotta get the toobz. THE TOOBZ


----------



## organ_donor

Yes tubes amps will definitely give much more joy for bright cans. That is why I am curious when people like KGSSHV with 009. Someone offering a good price for 009 to me but I m afraid it sounds sterile with my KGSSHV.


----------



## joseph69

organ_donor said:


> Yes tubes amps will definitely give much more joy for bright cans. That is why I am curious when people like KGSSHV with 009. Someone offering a good price for 009 to me but I m afraid it sounds sterile with my KGSSHV.


 

 No one can tell you if it sounds "sterile" but you.
 There are different KGSSHV builds and they do differ in sound from what I understand after experiencing this issue with my Mjolnir KGSSHV (sold) 009 and receiving this information. I preferred the Mjolnir KGST (sold) with my 009. Nothing wrong with the Mjolnir KGSSHV it was just not a good match for my tasted with the 009. You may feel differently. I had to learn by buying/trying but now I know first hand which amp I preferred with the 009.


----------



## Ampeezy

My carbon is definitely on the warmer side, but then again I use the sr-007. also, your source.
  
 Honestly the sic mosfets being close to triodes would be true in my case/build. very liquid sounding without sacrificing dynamics.


----------



## Ampeezy

organ_donor said:


> Yes tubes amps will definitely give much more joy for bright cans. That is why I am curious when people like KGSSHV with 009. Someone offering a good price for 009 to me but I m afraid it sounds sterile with my KGSSHV.


 

 What dac/source do you use?


----------



## organ_donor

I am using Mojo as source. I had good time with mojo + modded 007tii with 6S4A tubes + L700 unfortunately I sold the amp.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

organ_donor said:


> I am using Mojo as source. I had good time with mojo + modded 007tii with 6S4A tubes + L700 unfortunately I sold the amp.


 
 Bummer. I got my Emotiva XDA-2 as my source, which has an src bybass that resamples 44.1 and 48 files to 96 sample rate. It does its job. Has a ton of features.


----------



## Ampeezy

organ_donor said:


> I am using Mojo as source. I had good time with mojo + modded 007tii with 6S4A tubes + L700 unfortunately I sold the amp.


 

 ​Nice, like a kgst essentially? yeah the mojo should not be a problem, is your amp just the KGSSHV, or the carbon? unfortunate it is brighter than you prefer.


----------



## organ_donor

Yeah according to Spritzer the modification basically turns the 007tii into a Mini KGST. I have not heard a true KGST yet therefore I did not know how close are they. One thing I can confirm is L700 paired really well with my modded 007tii, basically no fatigue at all. Perhaps I should go for SR-007 but I can't find a decent deal locally.
  
 *Mine is KGSSHV not Carbon.


----------



## Ampeezy

astrostar59 said:


> Nice. I think you will find more as time goes on. The change from my SRM-717 to my KGSShv was big, just more of everything that is good, then again with the KGSShv Carbon. One caviet I would say, you will hear much more of what is going on upstream, so that may lead to some more changes, as it did for me. But basically all uphill from now on IMO.


 

 ​More changes? my wallet is surely not ready for that lol


----------



## Whitigir

Carbon is different than Kgsshv


----------



## Ampeezy

there is just the KGSSHV, then there is the KGSSHV Carbon


----------



## Whitigir

ampeezy said:


> there is just the KGSSHV, then there is the KGSSHV Carbon




Exactly ! But then again, Each Carbon or Kgsshv is different to one another, uniquely crafted by the DIY community. The person taste is also unique. My bet is to ask all questions for the owner/seller about the sound before anything. ....then again, the Carbon is a better amp


----------



## Simon Painter

I have a newbie Stax energizer Q to all you Stax guys out there! I decided to dive in to the Stax electrostatic water recently, as I've always used Quad electrostatic loud speakers. So now I have vintage Stax ear speakers in nice condition - SR-X (perfect, unused!) and SR-Lambda  I also have 2 SRD energizers, the 6 in self-biasing form and the mains version of the 7.
 My Q. is this:  The 7's label describes it as 100v, .1W, 50-60Hz, whereas I've seen other 7s labels described as 100v - 240v.  So do you guys think that all 7 series SRD energizers are suitable for use with European voltages, or are there some that are *100v only* (for the Japanese market)? Or, to put it in a nutshell, do you think I can use my SRD-7 without a transformer, here in the Bristol, UK (given that, for the time being anyway, we're still part of Europe and hence use mains at a nominal 230 volts)?


----------



## Whitigir

The bass on the 009 and carbon is just too beautiful. I never witness such beautiful bass before. There is 0 distortion with excellent dynamic, punches, slams, and body, balances, speed ! Damn!

I closed up my Capacitors opening a bit more


----------



## TraneTime

shure or bust said:


> I'm getting the L-700. How is the 353x ? The rest of there flag ship amps are pretty old. I thought i might as well get the newest releases.


 
 I have an L700.  The only amp I've paired it with is the 006tS.  It's a little bass shy but it sounds so good I have no reason to upgrade.  Though others on these forums have said that the L700 scales well with higher end non Stax amps.


----------



## Ampeezy

whitigir said:


> The bass on the 009 and carbon is just too beautiful. I never witness such beautiful bass before. There is 0 distortion with excellent dynamic, punches, slams, and body, balances, speed ! Damn!
> 
> I closed up my Capacitors opening a bit more


 

 ​noice, looks like the Ferrari of amplifiers. One day, one day i'll have the sr-009.
 I believe those PSU caps play a big role in the final voicing of the amp no?


----------



## Whitigir

ampeezy said:


> ​noice, looks like the Ferrari of amplifiers. One day, one day i'll have the sr-009.
> I believe those PSU caps play a big role in the final voicing of the amp no?




It depends, but the final voicing should be about every little Parts in there, resistors ? Capacitors ? Connectors, Wirings....etc...etc. most importantly is the current tuning


----------



## Ampeezy

whitigir said:


> It depends, but the final voicing should be about every little Parts in there, resistors ? Capacitors ? Connectors, Wirings....etc...etc. most importantly is the current tuning


 

 ​Yes current it definitely a big player, what current is yours running at? kevin gilmore stated on headase that past 25ma, there is no audible difference. That was with his circlotron though


----------



## Whitigir

ampeezy said:


> ​Yes current it definitely a big player, what current is yours running at? kevin gilmore stated on headase that past 25ma, there is no audible difference. That was with his circlotron though




I am running 17-18mA as I prefer the tonality to be closer to T2 (16mA)


----------



## Ali-Pacha

whitigir said:


> The bass on the 009 and carbon is just too beautiful. I never witness such beautiful bass before. There is 0 distortion with excellent dynamic, punches, slams, and body, balances, speed ! Damn!


 
 Bass on 009 is for me the best you can get from an estat so far.
  
 007's bass (mk1) is flabbier, not as massive nor extended, and I've the feeling those headphones cheat most of people somehow because of the overall darker signature (yeah, 009 are brighter, because of the 1-2 khz region mostly...but definitely with more bass to my ears).
 007 mk2 bass is more or less the same as mk1, with a hump on low-mids and shortened subs because of the port (closed port = mk1 bass)
 Orpheus clones bass is more symphonic / atmospheric, but not as tight / impactful and lacks a hair of extension.
 Properly driven HE60 have very tight bass, but lack volume and extension
 I surely lack Omega 1's knowledge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For what it's worth, I'm talking out of an Yggy (Moffat Bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) + BHSE with Mesa Boogie tubes, maybe not the most refined EL34 out there but likely the most proficient in the bass area.
 2 cents.

 Ali


----------



## Ampeezy

My Singxer SU-1 audio bridge came in, and i'm now using the I2s input into my dac. Detail, separation, and soundstage vastly improved.
 Let it be known that optical spdif is vastly inferior to i2s. I will be trying the coax and AES inputs later, for now i just need to listen...


----------



## Whitigir

Lol, one way to stop Stax Fart is...to wear Glasses  

I don't believe in any Digital interface to tinker and take a toll on my system chain....I do believe in pure quality DAC, Amp, Cables and interconnects. Anything that has to do with timer, jitter, etc....is the job of the DAC and the way it was implemented.

I sound crazy, but instead of spending 300-400 for an interface or filters or Conditioners....I will and I do spend 300-400$ on powercord, then USB cables, and then XLR cables . Stay the purest to the sources and the system, no additional funny monkey and bananas


----------



## Ampeezy

To each their own snake oil
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Although, I2s is far and away a better protocol over short distances. The master clock and audio signal are not multiplexed as with coax, optical or AES/EBU. They each have separate lines with I2s, resulting a purer reproduction of the audio signal.
  
 Not to mention I2s requires no transmitter and receiver on either endlike with other inputs. Data is fed directly from bridge converter to dac. End result is much less jitter, and you can hear it! At the very least it is very obvious in my system.
  
 The sr-007 now feel like they are being driven with power and panache. complex passages sound really resolved now, and the observable effect is that the music somehow sounds slower, because you are easily able to hear everything clearly within its own space. Very interesting


----------



## frususx

Recently just bought Lambda Signature from Japan,didn't notice it come with XLR 6pin.

Anyone know how to make it work on STAX 5Piin(Pro) Amp?


----------



## Tinkerer

I wonder why on earth anyone would reterminate it that way. Cheapest easiest fix would likely just be a new ribbon cable. It's only 40 pounds for a new cable from electromod.uk. If it's a Signature, then it should already be a pro anyhow.


----------



## frususx

tinkerer said:


> I wonder why on earth anyone would reterminate it that way. Cheapest easiest fix would likely just be a new ribbon cable. It's only 40 pounds for a new cable from electromod.uk. If it's a Signature, then it should already be a pro anyhow.




Appreciate your help.


----------



## Whitigir

Well, cables and wires to me is not "snake oil" as I make them myself , I have witnessed enough of it merit to appreciate it . 

Even my Carbon amp is all with OCC solidcore Silver wires inside .


----------



## astrostar59

whitigir said:


> Well, cables and wires to me is not "snake oil" as I make them myself
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I agree. Most folk say snake oil as it seems for some reason a red flag. But many have since experimented and realised the truth.
  
 It can be proved with science anyway, at the very basic level with capacitance, shielding and conductivity. Thus why not accept the current passing down said wire will be adversely affected?
  
 I agree with many though, prices can go insane. Unless drowning in cash, IMO best to go DIY.
  
 And we can add all capacitor sound the same, there is no such thing as burn in, mains power is mains power, digital is digital, it goes on......


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

frususx said:


> Recently just bought Lambda Signature from Japan,didn't notice it come with XLR 6pin.
> 
> Anyone know how to make it work on STAX 5Piin(Pro) Amp?




Maybe ask the person that sold you these why they came like that to begin with.


----------



## astrostar59

I would bet the seller built a DIY amp and the 6th pin is not used. Seems barmy. I would slice off the mother, and fit a new Stax socket. It may be required to refit the cable in the HP end? Actually this is bad, how do you know the polarity, if you get the bias wrong it will ruin the HP and maybe the amp. I would try and return them pronto, do a PP charge back., my advice,. or what I would do.


----------



## kevin gilmore

flat cable has pin 1 marked, bias are pins 2 and 5
  
 always


----------



## Ampeezy

kevin gilmore said:


> flat cable has pin 1 marked, bias are pins 2 and 5
> 
> always


 

 noice. Hello there


----------



## Ampeezy

​Decided to go with the spritzer mod today. Quite simple although I can see why getting the pads back on might be tricky for some. Thankfully I had no use for a taped knife to get them back on 
 Took the springs out while I was at it, and the pads still rotate but a lot less freely now.
 The first thing i noticed when i put them on, without music, was a better seal. Like my head is now in a bit of a vacuum. Now we listen...
  
 EDIT: right off the bat midbass has been shelved down, lending to a more apparently open sound. Mids are clearer as the sound is not as thick as it was before. As for sub bass extension, I believe it is the same as before, and was already well extended, but with less midbass it sounds more in balance with the other frequencies. Overall the phones now sound more neutral, linear, and bit more detailed.
  
 Highs sound clearer and more extended as well. I can now say that the bass was definitely a weak point on the stock phones. They really slowed and muddied the sound.
 Very nice, you can now better appreciate that stax speed. Would recommend this mod 10/10 if you want better sound for nothing, I got the blu tak from a walmart near my house 
  
 The stax fart isn't bad at all for the gains in sound, very curious as to why they went this way and nerfed such nice sounding phones.


----------



## bmichels

ampeezy said:


> ​Decided to go with the spritzer mod today. Quite simple although I can see why getting the pads back on might be tricky for some. Thankfully I had no use for a taped knife to get them back on
> Took the springs out while I was at it, and the pads still rotate but a lot less freely now.
> The first thing i noticed when i put them on, without music, was a better seal. Like my head is now in a bit of a vacuum. Now we listen...


 
  
 And... listening impressions ?


----------



## Ampeezy

bmichels said:


> And... listening impressions ?


 
 Sorry lol, I'll update (EDIT) my post with impressions
 Suffice to say, these phones are even more of a pleasure to listen to


----------



## Whitigir

Now, this is Interconnect Cables !

Pure Solid Silver and the connectors are $300 alone Roflmao....but this is the best there is. The shield is OFC ! Going all out for my Carbon! After all, it is very special  , every wires are Pure solid silver as much as possible everywhere , so Interconnect have to be nice! Too!


----------



## joseph69

ampeezy said:


> EDIT: right off the bat midbass has been shelved down, lending to a more apparently open sound. Mids are clearer as the sound is not as thick as it was before. As for sub bass extension, I believe it is the same as before, but with less midbass it sounds more in balance with the other frequencies. Overall the phones now sound more neutral, linear, and bit more detailed.
> 
> Highs sound clearer and more extended as well. I can now say that the bass was definitely a weak point on the stock phones. They really slowed and muddied the sound.
> Very nice, you can now better appreciate that stax speed. Would recommend this mod 10/10 if you want better sound for nothing.


 
 Very well said, and exactly my listening experience as well after doing both mods.


----------



## soren_brix

frususx said:


> Recently just bought Lambda Signature from Japan,didn't notice it come with XLR 6pin.
> 
> Anyone know how to make it work on STAX 5Piin(Pro) Amp?


 
  
  


kevin gilmore said:


> flat cable has pin 1 marked, bias are pins 2 and 5
> 
> always


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> ... if you get the bias wrong it will ruin the HP and maybe the amp...


 
 based on what?


----------



## astrostar59

soren_brix said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > ... if you get the bias wrong it will ruin the HP and maybe the amp...
> ...


 

 Edit, if he wires it up wrong. (thought this was obvious).


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> Edit, if he wires it up wrong. (thought this was obvious).


 
 how will it damage the HP or the AMP?


----------



## astrostar59

soren_brix said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > Edit, if he wires it up wrong. (thought this was obvious).
> ...


 

 He bought the Stax HP with a non Stax 6 pin plug. He was asking how to rewire it. I was saying, take care not to do that incorrectly, as in 580V bias on the wrong wire may / will incur damage to the HP and or amp. Unless you know different?


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> I was saying, take care not to do that incorrectly, as in 580V bias on the wrong wire may / will incur damage to the HP and or amp.


 
 as far as I know mixing up the wiring will not damage neither amp nor HP, which is why I ask you to explain the grounds of your warning?


----------



## astrostar59

soren_brix said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > I was saying, take care not to do that incorrectly, as in 580V bias on the wrong wire may / will incur damage to the HP and or amp.
> ...


 

 I am not obligated to answer your trolling responses further. But regardless, the subject was if you recall, ensure that wiring up the HP was done correctly, which I hope he does that. And I hope it offered some advice to take care. I have had my 009s fail in one side, not due to wiring but clearly they are fragile to some degree.


----------



## Ampeezy

He may be trolling you a bit, but wiring the headphones the wrong way theoretically should not damage either the HP pr the amp. Why? Because in the event that the bias is switched with either left or right stators, the maximum electrostatic force would still be the same because the two charges would still be the same only in reverse. The observable effect should be that one side would be louder than the other, and the HP would sound very off overall.
  
 The Amp should not even know what's going on if you know what i mean


----------



## Whitigir

Excellent! I just learned something new about Stax today ! So basically it is similar to the normal Dynamic headphones, if wired wrongly, the phase would be just wrong ?


----------



## soren_brix

astrostar59 said:


> I am not obligated to answer your trolling responses further. But regardless, the subject was if you recall, ensure that wiring up the HP was done correctly, which I hope he does that. And I hope it offered some advice to take care.


 

 The consequence of your so-called "advice" is that someone who might be able to fix the issue himself might be held back by your "advice", for no reason at all ... pointing that out, is far from trolling.


----------



## Ampeezy

whitigir said:


> Excellent! I just learned something new about Stax today ! So basically it is similar to the normal Dynamic headphones, if wired wrongly, the phase would be just wrong ?


 
 I believe you're right. The phones will be out of phase, and suffer from acute channel imbalance.


----------



## hpeter

zolkis said:


> In turn, the 007 headbands can be very well adjusted, even separately for the 2 headbands, resulting in different angle of the driver housing. It is meant to be adjusted.


 i´ve been thinking, about adding solder to those metal strips, maybe even a 1-3mm copper wire.
To make it firmer, more clamp pressure to head. ?



joseph69 said:


> My apologies to Utopia owners, but I can't for the life of me understand the hype about these headphones. In no/way/shape or form did I feel these should even be considered a match for the 009/007MK2.


 Just comparing the driver sizes and techs, (? 1µm foil on Stax) Stax must be better. Dynamic drivers are quite small, stuck at 2...4cm dia. max, even on circum-aurals
Air inside is heavier than the foil itself, no inertia or transducer distortions like dynamic.
(Who says the electrostat is inferior, that is a blasphemy. Torches & pitchforks, get ready people  )


----------



## Whitigir

I have heard people speculating that Stax has no bass, lack of dynamic...etc...etc....I was a fool to trust and believed in that....until now when I turn around and have 009 for myself. The bass, dynamic, resolutions are amazing, especially 0 distortions, ES done right is superior, period. I mean even sub bass is rumbling and super deep, not even Utopia can compare


----------



## astrostar59

ampeezy said:


> He may be trolling you a bit, but wiring the headphones the wrong way theoretically should not damage either the HP pr the amp. Why? Because in the event that the bias is switched with either left or right stators, the maximum electrostatic force would still be the same because the two charges would still be the same only in reverse. The observable effect should be that one side would be louder than the other, and the HP would sound very off overall.
> 
> The Amp should not even know what's going on if you know what i mean


 
 Interesting. If a 580V DC charge is applied to the positive terminal on say the left panel, would that be an overload? If say an electrostatic amplifier has a swing of 350V, that 580V DC load is going to pull the panel right over? Or does it need the bias as well to even move at all? Someone can chime in, as only guessing. 
  
 Anyway, I think the thing is get it wired it correctly and first time. These things are delicate as I stated in my 009 failure, which of course Stax never expand on so no clear reason offered why they did fail.


----------



## hpeter

It depends on schematic, anyway the bias current is limited with big resistor. But solidstate does give easily magic smoke.
_ When i short bias to groud, it goes quiet fast.
_


----------



## Ampeezy

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. If a 580V DC charge is applied to the positive terminal on say the left panel, would that be an overload? If say an electrostatic amplifier has a swing of 350V, that 580V DC load is going to pull the panel right over? Or does it need the bias as well to even move at all? Someone can chime in, as only guessing.
> 
> Anyway, I think the thing is get it wired it correctly and first time. These things are delicate as I stated in my 009 failure, which of course Stax never expand on so no clear reason offered why they did fail.


 
 It would be a potential overload if 580V was applied to the left terminal, *in addition to a bias of 580V*. However, if you were to just wrongly switch pins, the bias would now be say 300V, and the charge on the left stator 580V. In this case, the electrostatic force on the diaphragm would be the same as a correctly wired set so there should be no driver failure due to over driving the diaphragm.
  
 It is a fact of physics, that all things being equal, swapping the charges would not change the max force. Hence the driver should not fail


----------



## Ampeezy

The sr-009 are in sight. Any good deals anywhere? Price japan is looking to be my best bet so far


----------



## Whitigir

ampeezy said:


> The sr-009 are in sight. Any good deals anywhere? Price japan is looking to be my best bet so far




I would recommend you not to go with grey market import. You will get no service here in the states if nsything is wrong with it. I bought mine from Jason @ThesourceAV. They are excellent folks


----------



## purk

whitigir said:


> I would recommend you not to go with grey market import. You will get no service here in the states if nsything is wrong with it. I bought mine from Jason @ThesourceAV. They are excellent folks


 
 I have to heavily recommend them as well.  Justin @ Headamp also sell the SR009.


----------



## JimL11

Price Japan has had some problems recently, don't know if they are back in business.  Since SR-009 have been known to have imbalance problems it would be safer, if more expensive, to buy from a dealer rather than gray market.  Besides the two already mentioned, Elusive Disc is also an authorized dealer, and they sometimes have sales if you are willing to wait a while.


----------



## Ampeezy

whitigir said:


> I would recommend you not to go with grey market import. You will get no service here in the states if nsything is wrong with it. I bought mine from Jason @ThesourceAV. They are excellent folks


 
  


jiml11 said:


> Price Japan has had some problems recently, don't know if they are back in business.  Since SR-009 have been known to have imbalance problems it would be safer, if more expensive, to buy from a dealer rather than gray market.  Besides the two already mentioned, Elusive Disc is also an authorized dealer, and they sometimes have sales if you are willing to wait a while.


 

 ​Thanks for the input, I'll look into that for sure then


----------



## Pahani

ampeezy said:


> The sr-009 are in sight. Any good deals anywhere? Price japan is looking to be my best bet so far


 
  
  


whitigir said:


> I would recommend you not to go with grey market import. You will get no service here in the states if nsything is wrong with it. I bought mine from Jason @ThesourceAV. They are excellent folks


 
  
  


jiml11 said:


> Price Japan has had some problems recently, don't know if they are back in business.  Since SR-009 have been known to have imbalance problems it would be safer, if more expensive, to buy from a dealer rather than gray market.  Besides the two already mentioned, Elusive Disc is also an authorized dealer, and they sometimes have sales if you are willing to wait a while.


 
 I tried to purchase L700 from PJ in January. To even GET to their website, I had to ignore a scam warning from my Antivirus.
  
 Went through all the steps, entered my personal info, hit "Submit"........and PayPal balked, saying PJ's PP account was suspended (I think). NO WAY was I going to do a Bank Transfer, so that nixed that.
  
 About a week later, I received a sophisticated phishing E-mail claiming *MY* PayPal was compromised. I didn't fall for it, and forwarded it to PayPal. They confirmed as fake.
  
 About 2 weeks after that, my PC was hacked. Utterly and completely, including my entire home Network. I have done no "questionable" things besides visiting PJ. If it's not related, then it's a coincidence of Biblical proportions.
  
 Stay the screw away from PJ! At best, they're simply defunct. At worst, it's a possible virus/hack cesspool. Personally, I won't so much as visit the site again, even if 20 people after me report purchases with no problems.
  
 Pass the word. I don't want to see other people hurt.


----------



## Ampeezy

pahani said:


> I tried to purchase L700 from PJ in January. To even GET to their website, I had to ignore a scam warning from my Antivirus.
> 
> Went through all the steps, entered my personal info, hit "Submit"........and PayPal balked, saying PJ's PP account was suspended (I think). NO WAY was I going to do a Bank Transfer, so that nixed that.
> 
> ...


 

 ​Wow, I did hear about the suspended account but thought it was a very temporary thing. I have seen several people talk about their orders, and they did get them, but this gives me serious pause


----------



## Ampeezy

Have never been a strong believer in software audio optimizations but I could swear this offers a clearly audible improvement. In the name of science, I was hoping some one else could duplicate my results:
 http://www.fidelizer-audio.com/
  
 You click the download button, extract the zip file and run the program.
  
 Please close your music player before running it, then it will alert you as to whether to reopen your player after the optimizations are done. Say yes to this and browse to the folder where the player is installed and select your player in the pop up window. Select the *Purist *level of optimizations. Then see if there is any improvement. It claims to improve clock resolution and reduce latency, and I am hearing a smoother and more detailed sound. Like pillows of sound flowing into my ear lol.
  
 You can undo all this by just opening task manager and ending the task (Fidelizer). Let me know if you are trying it


----------



## Whitigir

Software, cables, and anything. They do affect the sound quality  , period. Some in positive ways, and some in negative ways


----------



## Ampeezy

whitigir said:


> Software, cables, and anything. They do affect the sound quality
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 True, especially at this level


----------



## Shure or bust

Can anyone help me regarding headbands ? I am trying to get a hold of a stax sr-009 headband.  Does anyone know the dimensions of it or can measure theirs. I'd appreciate it! Also is the sr-507 headband the same as what is on the L-500 & L-700 currently ? I believe the 500 and 700 use the same headband.  I am trying the get a hold of the biggest headband surface area for a mod.


----------



## Michgelsen

There is a special subforum for these kind of things. This thread is about Stax. Please keep it that way.
  
 Quote:


ampeezy said:


> Have never been a strong believer in software audio optimizations but I could swear this offers a clearly audible improvement. In the name of science, I was hoping some one else could duplicate my results:
> http://www.fidelizer-audio.com/
> 
> You click the download button, extract the zip file and run the program.
> ...


 
  
  


whitigir said:


> Software, cables, and anything. They do affect the sound quality
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Whitigir

Yeah, it is all about Stax. So I have finally finished my Carbon, special edition with all top notch quality materials, even the solder itself, just as I said "everything will effect the sound quality"

So, here it is. Pure silver solid core internal wiring, ultrapure copper internal wiring, high grade Audiophile jack and plugs, high grade silver and copper solder joins, high grade transformer and volume control, pure solid silver Powercord, and more.

Finally, my 009 is at home  . Now, next will be a good DAC with the uses of Interconnect Silver cables with high grade Audiophile quality connectors

Pictures or it didn't happen

Yepe, it is all about Stax


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## Ampeezy

Looking very very good. Wish I had those internal wirings sheesh...


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## Whitigir

ampeezy said:


> Looking very very good. Wish I had those internal wirings sheesh...




They are not cheap , and as u see Mjonir Audio offer Special edition which is awesome and still not cheap  . I am just too addicted to performances, and this is my end game for so so so long. So I want to get everything tip-top for it


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## astrostar59

whitigir said:


> Yeah, it is all about Stax. So I have finally finished my Carbon, special edition with all top notch quality materials, even the solder itself, just as I said "everything will effect the sound quality"


 
 Nice, and well done! I am a coward and commissioned mine. And top respect for using silver wiring and uncoded. I bet you checked and rechecked the wiring before firing up. And I do agree, all the parts quality do matter, though some may disagree.
  
 What bias are you running it at? I believe mine is at 17-18mA.
  
 I must say I really like the sound of the Carbon, I was unsure at first as it is quite different from my Sanyo KGSShv off-board that I had before. If I had to sum up the Carbon, I would say: Fast, smooth, transparent and linear. My KGSShv was a bit warmer, but the Carbon brings more to the table.
  
 I would think after 2 or 3 weeks of use, it should settle down and be even better. Good luck.


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## Whitigir

astrostar59 said:


> Nice, and well done! I am a coward and commissioned mine. And top respect for using silver wiring and uncoded. I bet you checked and rechecked the wiring before firing up. And I do agree, all the parts quality do matter, though some may disagree.
> 
> What bias are you running it at? I believe mine is at 17-18mA.
> 
> ...




It wasn't easy for sure, and I can not thanks to all the DIY community enough for this . I am running mine at actually at the same range as your. But now I have settled for 16.5 mA. I found that going up to 19mA made the 009 tonality a bit brittle, bright, and the extensions more harsh, while running 16-18mA has better tonality in thickness and warmth body but without the brightness and it bites, it is easier to enjoy and listen deeper into the top spectrum. So, it is my preferred condition.

You summed up the Carbon performances nicely . Though, I don't have a good DAC to feed it yet, I hope it will arrive today


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## aldavey

Hello,
  
 Totally new to Head-Fi. I have been using an HD800/WA7 for the last three years. I was an early Stax adopter back in 1970 and have always hankered back to that sound. So last week took delivery of 009s and STM-007tA (I currently live in Tokyo). Love the 009 presentation, but keep reading about BHSE and Carbons. My question is is the SRM-tA so bad or will I really appreciate the difference a BHSE/Carbon will make?
 Apologies if this has been covered before.


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## Whitigir

aldavey said:


> Hello,
> 
> Totally new to Head-Fi. I have been using an HD800/WA7 for the last three years. I was an early Stax adopter back in 1970 and have always hankered back to that sound. So last week took delivery of 009s and STM-007tA (I currently live in Tokyo). Love the 009 presentation, but keep reading about BHSE and Carbons. My question is is the SRM-tA so bad or will I really appreciate the difference a BHSE/Carbon will make?
> Apologies if this has been covered before.




You will definitely appreciate the BHSE=Carbon < T2 (DIY) more. I chose to go with Carbon because it is Solid State, so there is no need to replace Tubes for it . Many people swear by the T2(DIY) as the best performances for it.


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## aldavey

whitigir said:


> You will definitely appreciate the BHSE=Carbon < T2 (DIY) more. I chose to go with Carbon because it is Solid State, so there is no need to replace Tubes for it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for that quick reply, so notice you say BHSE=Carbon. So if you are not into DIY - afraid I lack the skills/balls - it's just a preference between tubes or SS, no difference in sound signature?


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## Whitigir

aldavey said:


> Thanks for that quick reply, so notice you say BHSE=Carbon. So if you are not into DIY - afraid I lack the skills/balls - it's just a preference between tubes or SS, no difference in sound signature?




Ofcourse there is preferrences and differences from Tubes vs SS....with Carbon, there is no Tubes rolling  while with BHSE, you can. You can totally enjoy these DIY products by buying from those reputable buidlers.


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## aldavey

whitigir said:


> Ofcourse there is preferrences and differences from Tubes vs SS....with Carbon, there is no Tubes rolling
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, I understand and thank you, I am trying to understand the sonic differences between the two alternatives. I do not consider the 009 as bright as some it seems do. I therefore wonder, without having the opportunity of hearing both options myself in Japan, what those differences are. Obviously everyone's MMV but is there anyone who has had the opportunity of a significant, i.e. direct comparison. Sorry if I'm sounding very basic here, it's just that $5k-6K without being able to audition myself an informed comparison would be re-assuring


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## Whitigir

aldavey said:


> Yes, I understand and thank you, I am trying to understand the sonic differences between the two alternatives. I do not consider the 009 as bright as some it seems do. I therefore wonder, without having the opportunity of hearing both options myself in Japan, what those differences are. Obviously everyone's MMV but is there anyone who has had the opportunity of a significant, i.e. direct comparison. Sorry if I'm sounding very basic here, it's just that $5k-6K without being able to audition myself an informed comparison would be re-assuring




Pm a member here purk . He has everything you can dream of, including Carbon, BHSE, T2 DIY, orpheous....


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## astrostar59

whitigir said:


> aldavey said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I understand and thank you, I am trying to understand the sonic differences between the two alternatives. I do not consider the 009 as bright as some it seems do. I therefore wonder, without having the opportunity of hearing both options myself in Japan, what those differences are. Obviously everyone's MMV but is there anyone who has had the opportunity of a significant, i.e. direct comparison. Sorry if I'm sounding very basic here, it's just that $5k-6K without being able to audition myself an informed comparison would be re-assuring
> ...


 

 Good advice ask Purk. I would add it also is important what amp you use, and the DAC. Don't isolate to just the 009 and an amp for example. The 007 is a safer bet and more forgiving, but IMO the 009 gives more if you get the front end right. Good luck.


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## aldavey

astrostar59 said:


> Good advice ask Purk. I would add it also is important what amp you use, and the DAC. Don't isolate to just the 009 and an amp for example. The 007 is a safer bet and more forgiving, but IMO the 009 gives more if you get the front end right. Good luck.


Thanks, but as stated previously the 009/007srmta are already in house so 009 at least are a given.
I.ve always been a tube man (goes back to being born in fifties - yea I know) so I'm leaning in a non tube rolling BHSE direction


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## Whitigir

aldavey said:


> Thanks, but as stated previously the 009/007srmta are already in house so 009 at least are a given.
> I.ve always been a tube man (goes back to being born in fifties - yea I know) so I'm leaning in a non tube rolling BHSE direction




I would go with T2 DIY kind, this T2 is a different than the Stax T2, and it is currently known as the best Tube Amp for Stax 009


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## aldavey

whitigir said:


> I would go with T2 DIY kind, this T2 is a different than the Stax T2, and it is currently known as the best Tube Amp for Stax 009


T2 is,as I understand it, ultimate, but unlike you I'm no position to DIY. As I understand it that option very,very few are so BhSe I guess.


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## Whitigir

aldavey said:


> T2 is,as I understand it, ultimate, but unlike you I'm no position to DIY. As I understand it that option very,very few are so BhSe I guess.




No, you can buy it from Builder . Will be very expensive as the parts are expensive


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## joseph69

aldavey said:


> Thanks, but as stated previously the 009/007srmta are already in house so 009 at least are a given.
> I.ve always been a tube man (goes back to being born in fifties - yea I know) so I'm leaning in a non tube rolling BHSE direction


 
 When I hear the term "tube rolling" I think different variants of tubes which can be used in a tube amp. The BHSE (which is a hybrid SS with a tube output stage) can only use EL34/6CA7 tubes. Yes, there are alternative manufactures of the EL34/6CA7 tubes with different sound-signatures, but you're still limited to using EL34/6CA7 tubes. The only other alternative tube (as I understand it) is the KT77 which is *not recommended* to be used in the BHSE by its circuit designer.


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## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> aldavey said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, but as stated previously the 009/007srmta are already in house so 009 at least are a given.
> ...


 
 That is correct. But the choice of tubes, particularly NOS such as Mullard XF1-4s and Hollands do make a marked difference even though as you say, the BHSE has FET stages before the EL34s.
  
 I have also noticed similar changes to the signature in my DAC with standard type of tubes, but different makes and vintage. IMO it is a very useful tool in the kit bag of a system, and can make an already good system really special.


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## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> That is correct. But the choice of tubes, particularly NOS such as Mullard XF1-4s and Hollands do make a marked difference even though as you say, the BHSE has FET stages before the EL34s.
> 
> I have also noticed similar changes to the signature in my DAC with standard type of tubes, but different makes and vintage. IMO it is a very useful tool in the kit bag of a system, and can make an already good system really special.


 

 Agreed. I'm using NOS Amperex "Bugle Boy" EL34s and are more than happy with them.


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## mulveling

joseph69 said:


> When I hear the term "tube rolling" I think different variants of tubes which can be used in a tube amp. The BHSE (which is a hybrid SS with a tube output stage) can only use EL34/6CA7 tubes. Yes, there are alternative manufactures of the EL34/6CA7 tubes with different sound-signatures, but you're still limited to using EL34/6CA7 tubes. The only other alternative tube (as I understand it) is the KT77 which is *not recommended* to be used in the BHSE by its circuit designer.


 
 "Tube rolling" usually refers to swapping different makes and/or vintages of the same tube type, or alternative types that are very close / electrically compatible. There's only a minority of crazies and uneducated that will sub tube types willy-nilly if the socket fits, though to be fair that kind of thing gained momentum in the Mikhail / Singlepower days, with even adapters coming out to overcome various sockets.
  
 You are correct that the BHSE is _*very *_strict on its EL34 requirement. The KT77 is normally a very close alternative to EL34, but Justin has relayed that it should _*not*_ be used in the BHSE. Fortunately, the various vintage Holland and British makes of EL34 sound very, very good and are incredibly durable and reliable -- and the 1970s British vintages are relatively plentiful.


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## joseph69

mulveling said:


> "Tube rolling" usually refers to swapping different makes and/or vintages of the same tube type, or alternative types that are very close / electrically compatible. There's only a minority of crazies and uneducated that will sub tube types willy-nilly if the socket fits, though to be fair that kind of thing gained momentum in the Mikhail / Singlepower days, with even adapters coming out to overcome various sockets.
> 
> You are correct that the BHSE is _*very *_strict on its EL34 requirement. The KT77 is normally a very close alternative to EL34, but Justin has relayed that it should _*not*_ be used in the BHSE. Fortunately, the various vintage Holland and British makes of EL34 sound very, very good and are incredibly durable and reliable -- and the 1970s British vintages are relatively plentiful.


 

  What I meant by "tube rolling" was more along the lines as in my WA6 were I'm able to use a wide variety of different tubes with/without adapters e.g.
  


 Now that's a lot of tubes to roll!


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## JimL11

mulveling said:


> "Tube rolling" usually refers to swapping different makes and/or vintages of the same tube type, or alternative types that are very close / electrically compatible. There's only a minority of crazies and uneducated that will sub tube types willy-nilly if the socket fits, though to be fair that kind of thing gained momentum in the Mikhail / Singlepower days, with even adapters coming out to overcome various sockets.


 
 Agreed.  Designers choose different tubes depending on their electrical characteristics, and the design is optimized for that particular tube.  The absolutely safe swap is to change to an identical tube but a different manufacturer.
  
 However, there are many tubes that are mechanically compatible (share the same pin-out) but electrically INCOMPATIBLE (different electrical characteristics).  Swapping to a tube type that is electrically different will generally result in a malfunctioning circuit as the circuit parameters are non-optimal.  Worst case is a circuit that actually blows up.  Manufacturers generally will not, and should not, honor warranties where that sort of idiocy has been perpetrated.  As one comedian commented, you can't fix stupid.


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## Ampeezy

whitigir said:


> It wasn't easy for sure, and I can not thanks to all the DIY community enough for this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ​Which Dac did you buy? Totally recommend the Gustard X20 pro (without USB)...just a sublime sound, really punches well above its weight. If I ever go for an upgrade, I hear the Holo audio spring R2R dac is quite good as well especially for the sr-009


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## Failed Engineer

I am about to take delivery of a Carbon and was curious about the voltage/current.  I'm going to be using them only with the SR-007 (I've owned and sold the SR-009 before and prefer the SR-007 by a wide margin).  My builder is suggesting 400V/20mA, but I've seen where many people go for 18mA.  Haven't seen as much discussion on the voltage.  Looking for some thoughts on configuration.


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## Whitigir

Finally ! My DAC is here  Woaaaaaa!


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## Ampeezy

My my, that is the LKS dac. A bit similar to the Gustard x20 pro. So i'm assuming that must have come up in your search as well. I read forums that describe the x20 pro as better than the LKS DA003 which has dual ESS9018 Pro chips to the X20's ESS9028. Is that the one you have? or the newer DA004 with 9038 chips? Either way I'm sure it'll get you there


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## Ampeezy

failed engineer said:


> I am about to take delivery of a Carbon and was curious about the voltage/current.  I'm going to be using them only with the SR-007 (I've owned and sold the SR-009 before and prefer the SR-007 by a wide margin).  My builder is suggesting 400V/20mA, but I've seen where many people go for 18mA.  Haven't seen as much discussion on the voltage.  Looking for some thoughts on configuration.


 

 ​With the sr-007 a higher current works very well. Fleshes out the sound a bit more. With the hyper detailed sr-009 a slightly lower current (16-18ma) might be more optimal as some have already said. Either way, the dac and amp combination is what will give you your final voicing so take this with a few grains of salt...
 Mine runs at 20ma and the sr-007 are glorious, very smooth, detailed, and with ample top end.
  
 On a side note, any time I turn on the Carbon my lights flicker telling me the inital current draw must be massive, and boy it runs really hot at that current.


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## Whitigir

ampeezy said:


> My my, that is the LKS dac. A bit similar to the Gustard x20 pro. So i'm assuming that must have come up in your search as well. I read forums that describe the x20 pro as better than the LKS DA003 which has dual ESS9018 Pro chips to the X20's ESS9028. Is that the one you have? or the newer DA004 with 9038 chips? Either way I'm sure it'll get you there




DA004 with dual 9038Pro . I can not believe the build quality of the chassis. Very nice build, and the remote is solid chunk of milled aluminum. I have no idea why it is this bulky with a lot of aluminum. Probably the case of cheap materials for China


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## mulveling

ampeezy said:


> ​With the sr-007 a higher current works very well. Fleshes out the sound a bit more. With the hyper detailed sr-009 a slightly lower current (16-18ma) might be more optimal as some have already said. Either way, the dac and amp combination is what will give you your final voicing so take this with a few grains of salt...
> Mine runs at 20ma and the sr-007 are glorious, very smooth, detailed, and with ample top end.
> 
> On a side note, any time I turn on the Carbon my lights flicker telling me the inital current draw must be massive, and boy it runs really hot at that current.


 
 Definitely, the Carbon superbly drives my 007 -- which are in fact *Failed Engineer**'s* old Mk I set. Mine is set to 17mA because the builder preferred its voicing that way with the 009. Though I haven't heard another build myself, I wouldn't hesitate to go 20mA if 007 Mk I was my lone priority, since I feel that the Mk I can always use more kick up top (measurement wise, there's no downside to 20mA other than heat dissipation). I wouldn't worry too much about the mA parameters being budged here-or-there, though -- if you like the 007 then you're going to absolutely love it with the Carbon; much better than any plain KGSShv. And unlike the old KGSShv, I think pretty much all the Carbon the builds are 400V.


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## Whitigir

My Carbon is running 16.5 mA as I stated above. I find going with 18mA was brittle and the tonal body got thin out. I want to keep it thick and warm with my 009 , so I wouldn't go with 20mA, but that is just me and my preferences on my build


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## Failed Engineer

whitigir said:


> My Carbon is running 16.5 mA as I stated above. I find going with 18mA was brittle and the tonal body got thin out. I want to keep it thick and warm with my 009
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's what I've seen almost universally recommended for the 009.  I haven't seen much out there for people pairing the Carbon with the 007 in terms of tuning the current.


----------



## Tinkerer

failed engineer said:


> I am about to take delivery of a Carbon and was curious about the voltage/current.  I'm going to be using them only with the SR-007 (I've owned and sold the SR-009 before and prefer the SR-007 by a wide margin).  My builder is suggesting 400V/20mA, but I've seen where many people go for 18mA.  Haven't seen as much discussion on the voltage.  Looking for some thoughts on configuration.



 


Doesn't make a ton of difference, but I set mine to 15mA because it has to feed into a circlotron output stage. It will do 20mA fine though as long as you got the sinks for it. I'd say crank it up to 20 and leave it if it's stable and stays at a good temp. 

450V HV PSU is slightly more linear but it's a bit of a pain to get a couple of the resistor values sometimes. I had to go hunt down some old stock T3 RN60D's. Probably why your builder went with the 400V PSU.


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## Whitigir

009 has found it new home, full of love, full of enthusiasm, just for itself 

Level unlocked : Stax 009 full achievement : Completed


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## behwatch

failed engineer said:


> I am about to take delivery of a Carbon and was curious about the voltage/current.  I'm going to be using them only with the SR-007 (I've owned and sold the SR-009 before and prefer the SR-007 by a wide margin).  My builder is suggesting 400V/20mA, but I've seen where many people go for 18mA.  Haven't seen as much discussion on the voltage.  Looking for some thoughts on configuration.




As discussed elsewhere, the current controls brightness. 18ma is what the majority votes. 400V is gd enough.

From KG:
Calculations of the current needed to drive the headphones at full power at 20khz. That number is something like 18ma or so, the T2 is 16ma, a lot of the other amps are much less. at 20ma, the carbon has both a faster rise time and wider frequency response than anything else out there. So for a while it seems bright, then it seems more natural.


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## astrostar59

behwatch said:


> failed engineer said:
> 
> 
> > I am about to take delivery of a Carbon and was curious about the voltage/current.  I'm going to be using them only with the SR-007 (I've owned and sold the SR-009 before and prefer the SR-007 by a wide margin).  My builder is suggesting 400V/20mA, but I've seen where many people go for 18mA.  Haven't seen as much discussion on the voltage.  Looking for some thoughts on configuration.
> ...


 

 As I understand it the ma level cn impact the soundstage as well. Some over at the other place dropped below 18ma and reported less drama and went back up to 18ma. I have the Carbon inc 15lv board and at 18ma and sound magical both on the 007A 2015 and the 009s. It also run a bit cooler so something to consider if you live in a hot climate. My amp on 18ma as around 20°C above ambient ion the heatsinks and I had big heatsinks as in a tall case.
  


 Also I suggest a deep shelf or not stacking it if possible.
  
 TBH the 007A is damb good on the Carbon, it is on steroids really motoring, way beyond the performance on the current crop of Stax amps. I think you will be very happy. In a way if leverage more the the 009 as it seems asleep on lesser amps in my tests, and the pole veil of the older issue MK2 is gone.


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## Whitigir

Stax has ruined me....everything else suddenly sound boring......Am I the only one ? It has come down to the point that Being Stationary, it better be Stax....otherwise, Portability is better.


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## Tinkerer

Pretty much. I enjoy some of my old orthos and stuff but nothing beats stax. Though the DIY part is a good part of the fun for me.


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## Ampeezy

tinkerer said:


> Pretty much. I enjoy some of my old orthos and stuff but nothing beats stax. Though the DIY part is a good part of the fun for me.


 

 ​I can imagine, man I gotta learn! everyone starts somewhere lol


----------



## frususx

soren_brix said:


> Thanks for you effort,I think I'll replace the plug insteated of recable it.
> hopeful I will get done correctly.


----------



## astrostar59

tinkerer said:


> Pretty much. I enjoy some of my old orthos and stuff but nothing beats stax. Though the DIY part is a good part of the fun for me.


 

 I think kit is the speed and extra micro detail without desertion or artefacts that make the Stax 'sound' It is so leaner and fast. I guess it is a Sax sound in a way a stew HPs I have years so far achieve that 100% though there are a lot more serious contenders right now.
  
 But the level of detail and the 'plankton' and decay you can hear is a shock for some, and maybe why it is not for everyone. With the 007As it is more armchairs cosy, relax into it. I wonder what the rumours SR-011 will bring? Maybe a bot more warmth and body in the midrange? That may attract a wider audience and align more with the reported HE-1 sound according to those who have heard the HE-1 and also own the 009s.
  
 I will get to hear it myself this summer, hope I get at least 15 minutes!
  
 Amps and HPs aside, the DAC and how you feed it as really important at this level of transparency, and to max out the 009s potential IMO.


----------



## astrostar59

whitigir said:


> My Carbon is running 16.5 mA as I stated above. I find going with 18mA was brittle and the tonal body got thin out. I want to keep it thick and warm with my 009
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Respect top your system but I was thinking, it may be a reaction to your DAC source. The Carbon and 009 combo is very excitable and sensitive to any treble glaze in digital.
  
 What software do you use on the Sony? If USB is for me, super sensitive to noise. If you can get access to a different DAC to could check it out see if there was a smoother treble presentation that would then allow you to up to 18ma. I think the soundstage also widens a bit on 18ma?
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## Ampeezy

astrostar59 said:


> Respect top your system but I was thinking, it may be a reaction to your DAC source. The Carbon and 009 combo is very excitable and sensitive to any treble glaze in digital.
> 
> What software do you use on the Sony? If USB is for me, super sensitive to noise. If you can get access to a different DAC to could check it out see if there was a smoother treble presentation that would then allow you to up to 18ma. I think the soundstage also widens a bit on 18ma?
> 
> Hope this helps.


 
 I tried to have him try out a different input, but @Whitigir was adamant about his Walkman. Granted his Walkman is quite interesting


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## Whitigir

I was only feeding it with WM1Z Walkman. It is in no way comparable to dedicated DAC, but it is on the side of smoother and warmer, and even so the 18mA were still brittle, especially the tonality overall became thin and artificial VS 16-17mA. That was why I settled for 16.5mA in the between. So I made the decision based on the tonality body overall. Soundstage are similar in all instances IMO. Perhap it is the thinner tonality overall that brings the brighter signatures to create an illusion of larger soundstage, or that is just me, but I prefer warmer and thicker/smoother signatures


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## astrostar59

whitigir said:


> I was only feeding it with WM1Z Walkman. It is in no way comparable to dedicated DAC, but it is on the side of smoother and warmer, and even so the 18mA were still brittle, especially the tonality overall became thin and artificial VS 16-17mA. That was why I settled for 16.5mA in the between. So I made the decision based on the tonality body overall. Soundstage are similar in all instances IMO. Perhap it is the thinner tonality overall that brings the brighter signatures to create an illusion of larger soundstage, or that is just me, but I prefer warmer and thicker/smoother signatures


 
  


whitigir said:


> I was only feeding it with WM1Z Walkman. It is in no way comparable to dedicated DAC, but it is on the side of smoother and warmer, and even so the 18mA were still brittle, especially the tonality overall became thin and artificial VS 16-17mA. That was why I settled for 16.5mA in the between. So I made the decision based on the tonality body overall. Soundstage are similar in all instances IMO. Perhap it is the thinner tonality overall that brings the brighter signatures to create an illusion of larger soundstage, or that is just me, but I prefer warmer and thicker/smoother signatures


 

 Can you gain access to a speaker setup? I would A/B the Sony v a decent full size DAC to check out the balance. Do you defeat all EQ and post processing? Micro player can be a great spund nowadays, but I think the chips and power supplies in that tiny space, as other micro players I had triied my be giving you a treble wanted slightly courser sound?
  
 A warmer signature can be had with an R-2R in particular. Good candidates maybe the Yggy or Holo Spring DAC, both under 2.5K. I would recommend the AMR DP-777. Used they can be had for under 2K and being R-2R and tube output work great on my Carbon and 009s.
  
 Hope this helps, and feel free to ignore, it is your system. Only trying to help. Good luck.


----------



## aldavey

So I just ordered my BHSE in blue of course. I have a SRM-007tA 100v available for a good home in about six weeks, nominal charge + shipping.
 If this not an appropriate post I apologise in advance.
 Please Pm if of interest.


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## Whitigir

As you saw my earlier posts, my DAC now is the LKS dual Es9038Pro. Yes, it is not expensive or brand name stuff, but internally is of good quality

Class A discrete output stage, true balanced circuitry, multiple powersupply regulators, silver-mica Capacitors, Jansen Capacitors, dual transformer with UPOCC wire as one per each channel, and es9038Pro is the newest flagship chip from ESS Sabres. It is currently able to net in 140Db Dynamic range per channel. You can read more into this DAC.

I stray away from R2R is that it quality is very susceptible to components quality and tolerances. Hell, theoretically each Resistors better be handpicked and hand matched individually, and what R2R DAC out there exactly do satisfy this category ? Going with a good design on DAC chip and high quality discrete components are a safer bet to me.

I would honestly dislike the tonal body to be any thinner or brighter than what it is now. So that is to say, I am very happy with 16.5mA period. Ofcourse my Walkman is in no way competing to a proper desktop DAC, but Tonal-body is what I am talking about, leave soundstage and details retrieval aside. There were perceivable changes in tonal-body from the same Source (my Walkman), then it should be constantly applicable toward any other DAC pieces. This is out of my 009

Who knows ? Maybe when there is a good design for R2R DAC DIY project, I would do it  . I would trust my own measurements, handpicked, and matching quality of each components than anyone else lol


----------



## Whitigir

aldavey said:


> So I just ordered my BHSE in blue of course. I have a SRM-007tA 100v available for a good home in about six weeks, nominal charge + shipping.
> If this not an appropriate post I apologise in advance.




Welcome to the next ballgame for your Stax  . I am sure you will be very very happy.

.
.
.
.
.
I just had to tinker with it again....cranked to 17.5mA . Yes, brighter, thinner tonality + faster lower end and less organic, more lower treble resolutions, but let me just leave it for a while LoL! I know I will comeback to the 16.5mA though, because I prefer Moar bass and warmth, and the vocal is more expressive and soulful with 16.5mA. It is my own observation anyhow, and it is all personal preferences. Ofcourse, do take into account that I use all Silver wires in my system too.


----------



## Pokemonn

it has been raining in Tokyo last few days...my 009  sounds screw*** great!!! must be better main power earting = low noise.
 i really envy astrostar59...britain is always raining right? lol


----------



## Ampeezy

pokemonn said:


> it has been raining in Tokyo last few days...my 009  sounds screw*** great!!! must be better main power earting = low noise.
> i really envy astrostar59...britain is always raining right? lol


 

 ​Which amp do you use?


----------



## Pokemonn

currently I'm using spritzer feedback modified SRM-727. it sound scary realistic 3D...


----------



## Ampeezy

Also mahaps you want to invest in a power conditioner?


----------



## Pokemonn

yes I'm using PS audio power plant P3, but it doesn't cut it perfectly..maybe i need a isolation transformer?


----------



## vapman

pokemonn said:


> yes I'm using PS audio power plant P3, but it doesn't cut it perfectly..maybe i need a isolation transformer?


 
 I use a nice Furman in my recording studio and on my PC i do a lot of listening from. Worth it.


----------



## Ampeezy

pokemonn said:


> yes I'm using PS audio power plant P3, but it doesn't cut it perfectly..maybe i need a isolation transformer?


 

 ​That is really decent, can't believe its not up to snuff. An isolation transformer is going to set you back a pretty penny though, but that is up to you. I use a measly Monoprice 15A power conditioner mostly for surge protection, although it also rejects seom EMI/RFI.


----------



## vapman

ampeezy said:


> ​That is really decent, can't believe its not up to snuff. An isolation transformer is going to set you back a pretty penny though, but that is up to you. I use a measly Monoprice 15A power conditioner mostly for surge protection, although it also rejects seom EMI/RFI.


 
 It probably works well but I can imagine it's not perfect. I have owned PS Audio conditioners and their fancy AC cables stuff in the past any I eventually got rid of it all because anything that was plugged into it would end up having bad caps a few months later. Now I just use Furman and plain old normal AC cables and everything sounds great, is protected and not mysteriously developing bad caps...


----------



## Pokemonn

maybe my area is very polluted electoricaly. There is no factory at all. there is a only huge hospital near my house.(5min. by walk)
 i will try Furman and an isolation transformer. Thank you very much for your advices!


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Just to say, Lambda NB out of BHSE are a real treat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## Ampeezy

ali-pacha said:


> Just to say, Lambda NB out of BHSE are a real treat
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ​sorry, i'm not too familiar with the lambda line. What does the NB stand for?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Normal bias, very first one from 1979..and one of the best 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## deuter

ali-pacha said:


> Normal bias, very first one from 1979..and one of the best
> 
> Ali




So lambda for bhse ? You need the sr007 or 009


----------



## Ali-Pacha

deuter said:


> So lambda for bhse ? You need the sr007 or 009


 
 You may also dig my posts, dude. Like this one : http://www.head-fi.org/t/212768/pics-of-headphones-rules-one-pic-no-words/4410#post_11628523





 Ali


----------



## Ampeezy

deuter said:


> So lambda for bhse ? You need the sr007 or 009






ali-pacha said:


> You may also dig my posts, dude. Like this one : http://www.head-fi.org/t/212768/pics-of-headphones-rules-one-pic-no-words/4410#post_11628523
> 
> 
> 
> Ali




LOL


----------



## mulveling

deuter said:


> So lambda for bhse ? You need the sr007 or 009



Don't knock the Lambdas, dude. I love the L700 out of my BHSE, and would've bought Purk's Lambda Pro if he'd sell it. Haven't heard the Lambda NB but I trust it's awesome too.


----------



## bearFNF

Yep, I'm very pleased with the NB socket from my BHSE to my Lambda NB. Glad I asked for it. Gives the LNB new life.


----------



## mulveling

bearfnf said:


> Yep, I'm very pleased with the NB socket from my BHSE to my Lambda NB. Glad I asked for it. Gives the LNB new life.



Yep, wish mine had a NB 2nd socket rather than this useless he90 socket, lol! That's 2nd-hand BHSE life for you, though.


----------



## Rossliew

All this talk of the Lambda NB makes me anxious for my Carbon that's being built with a normal bias socket as well  Hope it does the NB justice as much as the BHSE does.


----------



## Ampeezy

behwatch said:


> As discussed elsewhere, the current controls brightness. 18ma is what the majority votes. 400V is gd enough.
> 
> From KG:
> Calculations of the current needed to drive the headphones at full power at 20khz. That number is something like 18ma or so, the T2 is 16ma, a lot of the other amps are much less. at 20ma, the carbon has both a faster rise time and wider frequency response than anything else out there. So for a while it seems bright, then it seems more natural.


 

 ​Did anyone call the sr-007 (modded) dark? With the carbon at 20ma it is very neutral with excellent extension both ends, with a good weight to the sound. I don't feel that the amp is bright itself though, but rather that the sr-007 is being driven with a good kick in the behind.
  
 I can see though how a brighter headphone, like the sr-009 has been purported to be, might not fair so well at this current


----------



## deuter

mulveling said:


> Don't knock the Lambdas, dude. I love the L700 out of my BHSE, and would've bought Purk's Lambda Pro if he'd sell it. Haven't heard the Lambda NB but I trust it's awesome too.




Understand, never heard one so probably should've kept quiet.


----------



## Ampeezy

mulveling said:


> Don't knock the Lambdas, dude. I love the L700 out of my BHSE, and would've bought Purk's Lambda Pro if he'd sell it. Haven't heard the Lambda NB but I trust it's awesome too.


 

 I assume you have the 009 as well. Quck comparison with the L700?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

deuter said:


> Understand, never heard one so probably should've kept quiet.


 
 Throwing $6K in a BHSE for only one pair of Lambdas looks like a whole new level of stupidity...but we are on head-fi, so your reaction is not that illegitimate. Sorry for the easy sarcasm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 BTW, Lambdas are all around not up to Omega level (technicality), but they have their particular sound, and among those Lambdas, normal bias / signature are my favourite. I find SR-X0X too shouty and somehow gritty in the upper mids, and Nova signature a bit boring, even out of a BHSE.
 L700 is kinda different beast, with some of 009 technicalities...see some of my posts from here : http://www.head-fi.org/t/785949/the-stax-sr-l500-and-sr-l700-impressions-thread/510#post_13340045
 You may also look at another posts about some of my Staxen's on another site 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## JimL11

behwatch said:


> As discussed elsewhere, the current controls brightness. 18ma is what the majority votes. 400V is gd enough.
> 
> From KG:
> Calculations of the current needed to drive the headphones at full power at 20khz. That number is something like 18ma or so, the T2 is 16ma, a lot of the other amps are much less. at 20ma, the carbon has both a faster rise time and wider frequency response than anything else out there. So for a while it seems bright, then it seems more natural.


 

 Let me point out that KG's post has mostly to do with engineering decisions.
  
 1)  the slew rate needed for a signal is directly level and frequency dependent - i.e. if you double the signal level you double the slew rate.  Also, if you double the frequency reproduced, you double the slew rate.
  
 2)  the maximum level which can be produced by most electrostatic headphone amps is very high.  With a typical Stax headphone producing 100 dB levels at 100 VRMS, most headphone amps can produce at least 110 db average levels - a live rock concert produces 110-120 dB levels.  Per OSHA standards, the maximum work exposure levels are 8 hr/day at 90 dB, 2 hr/day at 100 dB and 30 min/day at 110 db.  Furthermore, exposure to 100 dB for 15 min can cause permanent hearing damage in some people.   In other words, playing music at peak levels sufficient to clip your amplifier for a significant period of time WILL cause permanent hearing loss.  We know that many long time rockers have hearing damage, but even classical musicians, where average levels are significantly lower, can have permeant hearing loss.  Here is a website that lists comparative sound levels:
 http://www.industrialnoisecontrol.com/comparative-noise-examples.htm
  
 3)  to reproduce 99+% of music signals, the maximum slew rate required is that required to reproduce a 6 kHz sine wave at full volume - this was shown a number of years ago by both Nelson Pass and Peter Baxandall.  Note that the required slew rate for 6 kHz is 1/3 the rate required to reproduce a 20 kHz sine wave at full volume.
  
 When you combine all these considerations together, the requirement for reproducing 20 kHz sine waves at full volume is well in excess of what is required for music reproduction at safe hearing levels.  Of course, there is nothing wrong with overkill - if you can afford it.


----------



## Whitigir

jiml11 said:


> Let me point out that KG's post has mostly to do with engineering decisions.
> 
> 1)  the slew rate needed for a signal is directly level and frequency dependent - i.e. if you double the signal level you double the slew rate.  Also, if you double the frequency reproduced, you double the slew rate.
> 
> ...




What does this have to do with the way how ES work in related to Current setting and tonality ? I don't know all that, but I can tell you that from my Carbon and 009 , 16.5mA have more organic sound than 17.5mA and above


----------



## JimL11

My point was that it probably doesn't have a lot to do with what the "proper" current setting is for your amplifier.  From a strictly engineering perspective, 16.5 mA or 20 mA are both are more than adequate.  Now, perhaps there might be a measurable difference in distortion at near clipping levels, but its relevance to the sound at lower levels would be conjectural.  20 mA is MORE overkill than 16.5 mA, but in terms of sound, who knows [shrugs shoulders]. The overall point is that it is difficult to tie in the sound to a particular measured parameter, which is something that needs restating from time to time.


----------



## astrostar59

jiml11 said:


> My point was that it probably doesn't have a lot to do with what the "proper" current setting is for your amplifier.  From a strictly engineering perspective, 16.5 mA or 20 mA are both are more than adequate.  Now, perhaps there might be a measurable difference in distortion at near clipping levels, but its relevance to the sound at lower levels would be conjectural.  20 mA is MORE overkill than 16.5 mA, but in terms of sound, who knows [shrugs shoulders]. The overall point is that it is difficult to tie in the sound to a particular measured parameter, which is something that needs restating from time to time.


 

 Good information JimL11
  
 I haven't heard my Carbon at different mA levels, it is at 18 now I believe. But I read some posts at the other place of folk who tried lowering the mA and they stated it 'calmed' the treble a bit, but crucially reduced the soundstage a bit. I have no brightness issues on my Carbon and 009, so won't try it. I would say, it is better to 'tune' the rest of the gear if is is a bit bright, or change the DAC for example. It is worth the hassle IMO.


----------



## Whitigir

astrostar59 said:


> Good information JimL11
> 
> I haven't heard my Carbon at different mA levels, it is at 18 now I believe. But I read some posts at the other place of folk who tried lowering the mA and they stated it 'calmed' the treble a bit, but crucially reduced the soundstage a bit. I have no brightness issues on my Carbon and 009, so won't try it. I would say, it is better to 'tune' the rest of the gear if is is a bit bright, or change the DAC for example. It is worth the hassle IMO.




Yes, great info indeed. I have now returned to my 16.5mA and I am happy again.

For my experiences, the lower-end spectrum and the tonality body are different from 16-17mA. Neither treble nor soundstage sacrifice the whole lot to my observations. Also, it is very true that the treble extensions and the edges are smoother in the lower range than higher range. This result stands true from either my Walkman as a source or my DAC.

This has got to be heavily personal preferences.


----------



## ductrung3993

Any Stax guy in SF? I got a 007 mk1 coming but got no electrostat amp to try it on. Would be great i can have a session with your amp. Thanks!


----------



## Sianlaser

I am looking to get a set of the new Stax L300 and I was wondering if I should just get the package SRS 3100 or get the L300 and an aftermarket amp.  So is there an amp that is under $500 that would be a noticeable improvement over the amp that comes in the SRS 3100 set?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## JimL11

sianlaser said:


> I am looking to get a set of the new Stax L300 and I was wondering if I should just get the package SRS 3100 or get the L300 and an aftermarket amp.  So is there an amp that is under $500 that would be a noticeable improvement over the amp that comes in the SRS 3100 set?
> 
> Thanks!


 

 The only way you could get a better amp under $500 are 1) build it yourself or 2) buy used.  However, most of the used Stax amps that sell for under $500 are older models like the SRM1 Mk II Pro (solid state) or SRM-T1 (hybrid with tube output) that will need, at a minimum, replacement of all the electrolytic caps, since 20 or 30 year old electrolytic caps tend to go bad.  With the SRM1, you also need to make sure it has a pro output socket as some of them pre-date the onset of pro bias Stax headphones. Sometimes you can get a used SRM323 for $500 or less. This is a newer model and would be a better bet if you don't want to deal with replacing electrolytic caps.   
  
 OTOH, the advantage of DIY is that building something like a KGSS Carbon, or even an SRX Plus, will allow you to upgrade your headphones in the future without having to change amps.  I built my SRX Plus for about $500, a KGSS Carbon will cost significantly more.


----------



## Razornova

Anyone tried adding a tube preamp before a stax solid state amp for some tube flavor? Would love it know if anyone has managed to get good results doing so.


----------



## dubharmonic

razornova said:


> Anyone tried adding a tube preamp before a stax solid state amp for some tube flavor? Would love it know if anyone has managed to get good results doing so.




I tried using the output from a Vali 2 a while back. It was interesting but not fun enough to stick with.


----------



## hpeter

After reading this thread i got a feeling, people use Stax with SS or hybrid amps. No real iron stuff


----------



## Whitigir

hpeter said:


> After reading this thread i got a feeling, people use Stax with SS or hybrid amps. No real iron stuff




What ? There is Iron class amplifier ?


----------



## astrostar59

razornova said:


> Anyone tried adding a tube preamp before a stax solid state amp for some tube flavor? Would love it know if anyone has managed to get good results doing so.


 

 When I had the SRM-717 and my 007 MK2s I used an Audio Note M3 tube pre-amplifier (£4.5K amp) and it added more weight and body to the sound. But ultimately I sold the pre-amplifier and moved onto the KGSShv, and felt I didn't need a pre-amp anymore. 
  
 It would in effect add some bloom, some weight, but probably slow things down and reduce transparency no matter how good the pre-amplifier. The Stax amps only need a 2V feed, no big deal to drive to their limits. Unlike some power amps driven directly that need more power and lower output impedance.
  
 My advice, if you are after more warmth or just 'more' get a KGSShv or a KGST if you want tubes. My KGSShv was very tubey in a good way, i.e. bit warm but dynamic as well.


----------



## Whitigir

I have no problem getting that warmth and tonality that I desire out of my Carbon and only at 16.5mA. That is with all silver wires everywhere. It falls inline what what KG stated completely


----------



## Pale Rider

hpeter said:


> After reading this thread i got a feeling, people use Stax with SS or hybrid amps. No real iron stuff


 


  
  
 Granted, "hybrid" is a broad term.


----------



## joseph69

pale rider said:


> Granted, "hybrid" is a broad term.


 
 Very nice!
 I don't recall seeing this on the Mjolnir site?
 What amp is that?


----------



## Pale Rider

It's the Megatron. Wasn't on the site for long.


----------



## joseph69

pale rider said:


> It's the Megatron. Wasn't on the site for long.


 
 Would love to hear that…I'll send you my address. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 That really is gorgeous!
 Enjoy!


----------



## Ampeezy

pale rider said:


> It's the Megatron. Wasn't on the site for long.


 
 Is that like a souped up T2?


----------



## JimL11

ampeezy said:


> Is that like a souped up T2?


 

 Totally different designs.  The Stax T2 is a souped up SRX (http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/audio/hdgsta.htm) with the coupling capacitors replaced by a whole bunch of transistors to allow all DC coupling from input to output.  It uses 6DJ8 tubes instead of 12AT7s in the cascoded input stage and EL34 output tubes with solid state constant current loads instead of 6FQ7 outputs with plate resistors.
  
 The Megatron is a mostly tube amplifier with some solid state constant current sources, and 4 EL34 output tubes per side, with half of the EL34s acting as current loads.  The current source EL34s are wired up very similarly to the output tube EL34s so the output stage is self-balancing.
  
 Both will do a good job of heating your listening room.


----------



## Pale Rider

jiml11 said:


> Both will do a good job of heating your listening room.


 
 Indeed. As Jim notes, completely different from the T2.


----------



## astrostar59

jiml11 said:


> ampeezy said:
> 
> 
> > Is that like a souped up T2?
> ...


 

 Love it. And with all those tubes that would normally grace a 40W monoblock amplifier for big speakers, we are actually driving headphones! I would love to hear one some day...


----------



## Quixote79

jiml11 said:


> Totally different designs.  The Stax T2 is a souped up SRX (http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/audio/hdgsta.htm) with the coupling capacitors replaced by a whole bunch of transistors to allow all DC coupling from input to output.  It uses 6DJ8 tubes instead of 12AT7s in the cascoded input stage and EL34 output tubes with solid state constant current loads instead of 6FQ7 outputs with plate resistors.
> 
> The Megatron is a mostly tube amplifier with some solid state constant current sources, and 4 EL34 output tubes per side, with half of the EL34s acting as current loads.  The current source EL34s are wired up very similarly to the output tube EL34s so the output stage is self-balancing.
> 
> Both will do a good job of heating your listening room.


 

 Is not srx your amp?  how can stax soup up your amplifier and call it 2T?


----------



## paradoxper

SMH. There is no hope for you.


----------



## Ampeezy

jiml11 said:


> Totally different designs.  The Stax T2 is a souped up SRX (http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/audio/hdgsta.htm) with the coupling capacitors replaced by a whole bunch of transistors to allow all DC coupling from input to output.  It uses 6DJ8 tubes instead of 12AT7s in the cascoded input stage and EL34 output tubes with solid state constant current loads instead of 6FQ7 outputs with plate resistors.
> 
> The Megatron is a mostly tube amplifier with some solid state constant current sources, and 4 EL34 output tubes per side, with half of the EL34s acting as current loads.  The current source EL34s are wired up very similarly to the output tube EL34s so the output stage is self-balancing.
> 
> Both will do a good job of heating your listening room.


 
  
 Ah i see, I wonder how much it retailed for...


----------



## JimL11

quixote79 said:


> Is not srx your amp?  how can stax soup up your amplifier and call it 2T?


 

 Nope.  The SRX is originally a Stax design from the 1970s that was given to the DIY community.  I named my version the SRX Plus to honor  the original Stax circuit, and to indicate that it was an optimized version of it.  The SRX Plus circuit is almost exactly the same as the SRX, but updated with the addition of constant current sources or loads to improve its function and drive capability.  The MOSFET constant current sources/loads set the circuit parameters but the active devices are tubes.  The fact that such a "simple" circuit, when updated, is still sonically competitive with some of the best designs today is a testament to the talent of the Stax engineers who designed it.
  
 The T2 shares the skeleton of the SRX, as described in the previous post,  To say that all the intervening transistor circuitry merely replaced the two coupling capacitors is somewhat of an oversimplification, as the output stage of the T2 is a common grid rather than the SRX's common cathode configuration, and the former requires an extra driver stage.  In fact the BHSE uses a similar output stage configuration which was inspired by the T2.


----------



## Thaudiophile

I have never heard Sr omegas.I would really like some comparison and impression of Stax SR Omega with Sr 009,007 and other flagships.


----------



## deuter

People with Omega 007 and BHSE, what volume level do you listen at.


----------



## hpeter

whitigir said:


> What ? There is Iron class amplifier ?


 I meant tube endstage driving a transformer/choke, where the stax are connected to it.


----------



## JimL11

hpeter said:


> I meant tube endstage driving a transformer/choke, where the stax are connected to it.


 

 The Woo WES has choke loaded outputs, but has a somewhat mixed sonic reputation (see InnerFidelity review).  From a technical point of view, I personally don't see a benefit to choke-loaded outputs for electrostatic headphones, as the very high impedance of estat phones means that most of the signal current is wasted in the choke rather than driving the headphones.  
  
 AFAIK, there has never been a commercial transformer output amp for electrostatic headphones.  Stax used to sell transformer and bias boxes for their headphones through the 1980s, that were designed to be connected to speaker amplifiers.  There are a couple single-ended designs with transformer outputs floating around the internet but all strictly DIY.


----------



## joseph69

jiml11 said:


> The Woo WES has choke loaded outputs, but has a somewhat mixed sonic reputation (see InnerFidelity review).  From a technical point of view, I personally don't see a benefit to choke-loaded outputs for electrostatic headphones, as the very high impedance of estat phones means that most of the signal current is wasted in the choke rather than driving the headphones.
> 
> AFAIK, there has never been a commercial transformer output amp for electrostatic headphones.  Stax used to sell transformer and bias boxes for their headphones through the 1980s, that were designed to be connected to speaker amplifiers.  There are a couple single-ended designs with transformer outputs floating around the internet but all strictly DIY.


 
 You're a world of information, Jim.
 What impedance are the 007/009 anyway?


----------



## JimL11

joseph69 said:


> You're a world of information, Jim.
> What impedance are the 007/009 anyway?


 

 The impedance of an electrostatic headphone varies with frequency, because it partly resembles a capacitor, although not completely, because, unlike a capacitor, the headphone makes sound.  In the case of the 007 and 009, they have a capacitance close to 100 pf, so  at 1 kHz the 007 has an impedance of about 170 kilohms, and the 009 has an impedance around 145 kilohms, both very high.  The impedance varies as the inverse of frequency, so at 10 kHz the impedance is 10-fold lower, at 100 Hz the impedance is 10-fold higher.  However, since the headphone makes sound, there is another term to the impedance which can be approximated by a high value resistor, say around 100-200k. In combination, they still result in a high value impedance.  
  
 The output stage active device (tube or transistor) sees this high impedance in parallel with the output stage load, whether it is a resistor, choke or constant current load.  In order to have sufficient current drive, the resistor must be significantly lower impedance than the headphone, however, this also means that the majority of the signal current is sucked up by the plate resistor due to Ohm's law.  In the case of an output choke, the impedance of the choke varies directly with frequency, which means at low frequencies where much of the power demands in music lie, again most of the signal current goes to driving the choke.  Thus, both resistor and choke loads are very inefficient in supplying current to the headphone, which is the point of the exercise.  By comparison, a good constant current load requires essentially none of the signal current, hence allowing all the signal current (minus that needed to drive the feedback resistors) to drive the headphones.  Not only is this more efficient, but it decreases distortion in the output device because it is not as heavily loaded.


----------



## kevin gilmore

So there are a few other transformer electrostatics
  
 eddie current electra is a dual tapped choke, push pull
  
 malvalve has a transformer as the load, electrostatics are driven off the plates, and dynamic headphones driven off the low impedance taps
  
 audiovalve rkv uses single ended pentode driving a transformer for electrostatic loads and either cap coupled or transformer coupled for low impedance
  
 demograf is single ended with large top plate tubes and even bigger transformers


----------



## 100VoltTube

I'm not totally sure this is the right thread for this kind of post (the last thing you want to see a post begin with), but with all of the discussion of estat amp topology, I though it might be acceptable to explain a probably-not-new idea I've been mulling over recently:

 Sorry for the bad looking LTspice screenshot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 In short, It's an opamp that uses a MOSFET to do its bidding. In more technical terms, the input opamp's inverting input sees the input signal, and the noninverting input sees the output voltage after it has been dropped with a resistor divider. the opamp's output is cap coupled to a MOSFET used in a CCSed common source amplifier. The gain is defined by the ratio of R4 to R5, as it comprises the negative-feedback loop. If I were to make it, I would use a push-pull arrangement with FETs on the output and a BDT (beam deflection tube) in place of the opamp, but still the same basic idea.
  
 EDIT: P.S. A tube could be used in place of the MOSFET


----------



## paradoxper

kevin gilmore said:


> So there are a few other transformer electrostatics
> 
> eddie current electra is a dual tapped choke, push pull
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 And they all suck.


----------



## JimL11

kevin gilmore said:


> So there are a few other transformer electrostatics
> 
> eddie current electra is a dual tapped choke, push pull
> 
> ...


 

 Helpful info as always.  Not sure the Electra is still being sold - it's not listed on their website.


----------



## Ojisan

Hi, I'm a new and happy SRS-3100 user (and still catching up with this thread).
  
 I have been intrigued by the DIY amp discussion in the last few pages. Are there starter kits out there or do most of you source your components? I could start from the schematics but if someone has published results and recommended components, I thought that would save some time  Any pointers appreciated.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## JimL11

ojisan said:


> Hi, I'm a new and happy SRS-3100 user (and still catching up with this thread).
> 
> I have been intrigued by the DIY amp discussion in the last few pages. Are there starter kits out there or do most of you source your components? I could start from the schematics but if someone has published results and recommended components, I thought that would save some time  Any pointers appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


 

 No kits, unfortunately, you'll have to get your own circuit boards, parts and build your own chassis.  Lots of info over on another website for all the Kevin Gilmore designs as well as the SRX Plus.  The SRX Plus design was also published in AudioXpress in Nov and Dec 2015.


----------



## joseph69

jiml11 said:


> The impedance of an electrostatic headphone varies with frequency, because it partly resembles a capacitor, although not completely, because, unlike a capacitor, the headphone makes sound.  In the case of the 007 and 009, they have a capacitance close to 100 pf, so  at 1 kHz the 007 has an impedance of about 170 kilohms, and the 009 has an impedance around 145 kilohms, both very high.  The impedance varies as the inverse of frequency, so at 10 kHz the impedance is 10-fold lower, at 100 Hz the impedance is 10-fold higher.  However, since the headphone makes sound, there is another term to the impedance which can be approximated by a high value resistor, say around 100-200k. In combination, they still result in a high value impedance.
> 
> The output stage active device (tube or transistor) sees this high impedance in parallel with the output stage load, whether it is a resistor, choke or constant current load.  In order to have sufficient current drive, the resistor must be significantly lower impedance than the headphone, however, this also means that the majority of the signal current is sucked up by the plate resistor due to Ohm's law.  In the case of an output choke, the impedance of the choke varies directly with frequency, which means at low frequencies where much of the power demands in music lie, again most of the signal current goes to driving the choke.  Thus, both resistor and choke loads are very inefficient in supplying current to the headphone, which is the point of the exercise.  By comparison, a good constant current load requires essentially none of the signal current, hence allowing all the signal current (minus that needed to drive the feedback resistors) to drive the headphones.  Not only is this more efficient, but it decreases distortion in the output device because it is not as heavily loaded.


 
 Thank you for the very thorough reply. It did take me some time to (google) comprehend your post to better understanding it for myself, and it's much appreciated to learn and understand about my gear as much as enjoying listening to it. Thanks again.


----------



## mulveling

ampeezy said:


> I assume you have the 009 as well. Quck comparison with the L700?


 
 Lots of impressions out there, including mine lol. I prefer both the 009 and L700's "brighter" personality over the 007 Mk I. The 009 is more accurate and a superior performer to the L700; this is most apparent in soundstage (009 much bigger) and bass (009 is cleaner / firmer, L700 bass has a little bit of "bloom"). I love the midrange on both; the 009 is more detailed. They both can have a bit of "bite" on top, but not in the same way nor at the same points, so a person that has a problem with 1 may not necessarily have an issue with the other. Also the L700 errs in ways that aren't necessarily unmusical, for all music -- it can bring a fun perspective to things, even with having a 009 readily available. 
  
 I prefer pairing the L700 with tube amps, even more strongly than I prefer to pair the 009 with tubes. The Carbon w/ L700 tends to run a little bright...not to where I dislike it, but 007 lovers beware. The L700 is best out of the BHSE (well, likely best from a DIY T2 but I haven't heard that), and (at a lower level) pairs well with KGST.


----------



## Joong

The phones are capacitive loads so that the low frequency power are limited and hence the low frequency tones are weak.
This fact leads to the limitation of Electrostatic phone's weakness as opposed to dynamic phone including planar which are driven by inductive load that transmit full power at the lower frequency as opposed to capacitive load of the ES phone.
It is correct statement?


----------



## Ampeezy

mulveling said:


> Lots of impressions out there, including mine lol. I prefer both the 009 and L700's "brighter" personality over the 007 Mk I. The 009 is more accurate and a superior performer to the L700; this is most apparent in soundstage (009 much bigger) and bass (009 is cleaner / firmer, L700 bass has a little bit of "bloom"). I love the midrange on both; the 009 is more detailed. They both can have a bit of "bite" on top, but not in the same way nor at the same points, so a person that has a problem with 1 may not necessarily have an issue with the other. Also the L700 errs in ways that aren't necessarily unmusical, for all music -- it can bring a fun perspective to things, even with having a 009 readily available.
> 
> I prefer pairing the L700 with tube amps, even more strongly than I prefer to pair the 009 with tubes. The Carbon w/ L700 tends to run a little bright...not to where I dislike it, but 007 lovers beware.


 
 Thanks for the info, yeah that is a fear of mine. The sr-007 out of the carbon, has a decent helping of treble. Any more might border on excessive for me, which leaves me a bit stumped with the L700, and especially the sr-009.


----------



## mulveling

ampeezy said:


> Thanks for the info, yeah that is a fear of mine. The sr-007 out of the carbon, has a decent helping of treble. Any more might border on excessive for me, which leaves me a bit stumped with the L700, and especially the sr-009.


 
 Another variable -- my 007 is a Mk I, which is said to be notably darker than more recent models. I haven't heard any newer 007, unfortunately. The 007 Mk I is definitely on the dark side for my tastes, and it probably gets as close as it's gonna get to my preferred sound when driven by the Carbon (or perhaps from the BHSE with brighter tubes).


----------



## Ojisan

jiml11 said:


> No kits, unfortunately, you'll have to get your own circuit boards, parts and build your own chassis.  Lots of info over on another website for all the Kevin Gilmore designs as well as the SRX Plus.  The SRX Plus design was also published in AudioXpress in Nov and Dec 2015.


 
  
 Thanks for the info! Should be a fun journey.


----------



## JimL11

joong said:


> The phones are capacitive loads so that the low frequency power are limited and hence the low frequency tones are weak.
> This fact leads to the limitation of Electrostatic phone's weakness as opposed to dynamic phone including planar which are driven by inductive load that transmit full power at the lower frequency as opposed to capacitive load of the ES phone.
> It is correct statement?


 

 Not really.  As I mentioned, electrostatic headphones resemble capacitors so the capacitative impedance at low frequencies is very high, up around 7-9 megohms.  However, capacitors don't (or shouldn't) make any sound, and ideal capacitors don't burn up any power, because with any AC frequency, the voltage and current are precisely 90 degrees out of phase.  In fact, the fact that headphones DO make sound means they aren't precisely the same impedance as capacitors - by the physical law of conservation of energy they must burn up energy to turn it into sound, which means there is a component of the signal current that is IN PHASE with the signal voltage.
  
 The impedance of a headphone gives the relationship between voltage and current that is needed to drive it.  For electrostatic headphones, the voltage requirement is high but the current requirement is low, so stat amps need high voltage but only a few mA of current.  For dynamic headphones the voltage requirement is low but the current requirement is high.  So dynamic headphones only need a few volts or less, but may need a 100 mA of current.  
  
 Electrostatic headphones can produce deep bass - in fact the Stax Lambda Pro was originally developed at the request of Mercedes Benz because they needed a transducer that could accurately reproduce the lowest frequencies at loud levels for analysis and design of their automobiles.


----------



## Ampeezy

jiml11 said:


> Electrostatic headphones can produce deep bass - in fact the Stax Lambda Pro was originally developed at the request of Mercedes Benz because they needed a transducer that could accurately reproduce the lowest frequencies at loud levels for analysis and design of their automobiles.


 
 What kind of analysis requires an electrostat of all drivers to produce deep bass lol?


----------



## Whitigir

My 009 has the best bass that I have ever came across, period. Not even Utopia can compare


----------



## astrostar59

whitigir said:


> My 009 has the best bass that I have ever came across, period. Not even Utopia can compare


 

 Do you use EQ?


----------



## Ampeezy

On a slightly different note, my carbon has the TKD 4CP-601 volume pot. Any thoughts on the quality of this particular pot, and which pot out there could be a good upgrade? like the Khozmo?


----------



## Whitigir

astrostar59 said:


> Do you use EQ?




Nope, just pure transmission 

I used gold point in mine  

http://www.goldpt.com/compare.html



ampeezy said:


> On a slightly different note, my carbon has the TKD 4CP-601 volume pot. Any thoughts on the quality of this particular pot, and which pot out there could be a good upgrade? like the Khozmo?


----------



## kevin gilmore

paradoxper said:


> And they all suck.


 

 ​and that is the problem with transformers used to drive electrostatic elements with such a wide impedance range. You can optimize for low frequency or high frequency, but not both.
  
 transformers for speakers (martin logan, quad etc) are very carefully designed, and typically bigger than most of those power amps.
  
 the demograf probably throws around enough power into big enough transformers that it might perform well. If it does not kill you first.
  
 the amp schematic shown on the previous page has all sorts of issues, but mainly controlling the dc voltage of the output stage. So by the time you dc couple everything and add a offset servo
 it looks a lot like a carbon.


----------



## Pokemonn

astrostar59 said:


> whitigir said:
> 
> 
> > My 009 has the best bass that I have ever came across, period. Not even Utopia can compare
> ...


 

 regarding EQ, i found good old article about 009 with harman target response curve.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/first-test-estimated-harman-target-response-curve-various-headphones
  


 this is 009 FR curve graph compensated by harman target response curve. i EQ it to flat with few db boost 200hz center like HD600/800 graph.
 if you dont like harman target curve, please ignore or modifi it. lol


----------



## hpeter

jiml11 said:


> The Woo WES has choke loaded outputs, but has a somewhat mixed sonic reputation (see InnerFidelity review).  From a technical point of view, I personally don't see a benefit to choke-loaded outputs for electrostatic headphones, as the very high impedance of estat phones means that most of the signal current is wasted in the choke rather than driving the headphones.
> 
> AFAIK, there has never been a commercial transformer output amp for electrostatic headphones.  Stax used to sell transformer and bias boxes for their headphones through the 1980s, that were designed to be connected to speaker amplifiers.  There are a couple single-ended designs with transformer outputs floating around the internet but all strictly DIY.





paradoxper said:


> And they all suck.




If such amps have negative reviews, then i´d like to see schematics and circuit working points, to understand why 

I see several choke benefits. 
1) DCR is low (DC voltage lost on it is low - low heat. Can´t say that about resistors of mosfets). 

2) For example 400H choke has only [COLOR=009999]~2k DCR[/COLOR]; at 1kHz has reactance [COLOR=009999]2,5 Megohms[/COLOR]. _ Resistor represents same value at any freq, DC._
3) MOSFET gyrators can replace choke, but you need to use 2x anode voltage. _Amp consumption.._ (choke has EMF, gyrator does not)
4) DHT or any good triode, working into ultra high impedance, will have low THD and maximum gain (very close to µ)
(choke or gyrator are excellent)
5) Transistors like to explode - release smoke when near limits (high power peaks). Choke survives.

Example with ideal triode stage: with choke 400H 2kDCR 15mA, you will need just 300Vsupply. 
Output swing would be almost 0..600V peak (minus a little voltage lost on DCR) 

To match that with MOSFET gyrator, you´ll need *600V* supply, and heat lost on mosfet will be 10x of choke (~4,5W)
Supply power consumption will be 2x. 
With high current-voltage stages, consumption and heat lost, will make mosfet unattractive
Choke/transformer has 2 problems, $$ and size. :devil_face: 
_ Makes more sense to me, spend 250€ on chokes, than $$$ for gold usb cable  _


----------



## Thaudiophile

Any impressions on Stax Sr omega please?


----------



## Ampeezy

Does the carbon currently max out at a 450V supply? and what differences are there if any between that and one with a 400V supply?


----------



## kevin gilmore

Joamat is running one at 500V supplies with hand selected parts

Probably not a great idea

If you use an alternate version of the current source with 4686a you can go to 600v


----------



## JimL11

hpeter said:


> If such amps have negative reviews, then i´d like to see schematics and circuit working points, to understand why
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, it's true that you don't need as much voltage running a choke as a resistor or constant current source, but as I pointed out, the power part of music lies in the 50-300 Hz range, and the impedance of a choke is relatively low at those frequencies.  The largest commercial choke I have seen is 200H, but even if we assume a 400H choke, its impedance at those frequencies is 125 kilohms to 750 kilohms.  If we assume a 200H chokem the impedance drops to 62 to 380 kilhoms.  This sounds high, but remember that the impedance of the headphone at those frequencies is 3.9 megohms to 460 kilohms (actually somewhat lower due to the fact it makes sound).  So with a relatively low choke impedance combined with a very high headphone impedance, guess where the bulk of the signal current is going to go - burned up in the choke rather than used to drive the headphones.  This means that the output device has to produce much more signal current for the same output voltage, which means more distortion.  All this assumes a perfect choke, but real chokes have resonances, leakage capacitance etc., and realistically, pretty much never have a reactance greater than 1 megohm.
  
 On the other hand, a good cascode MOSFET current source has a measured impedance of over 150 megohms, so essentially none of the signal current is wasted driving it.  You trade off the greater DC efficiency of a choke compared to a constant current source, for much worse AC efficiency, and much greater cost.
  
 Now, chokes definitely have their place if you can afford the cost.  But the output stage of an electrostatic headphone amp is not the optimum location IMHO.


----------



## JimL11

ampeezy said:


> What kind of analysis requires an electrostat of all drivers to produce deep bass lol?


 

 At the time it was designed, pretty much all headphones rolled off below about 40-50 Hz.  Mercedes wanted a headphone that went down to below 20 Hz, and they asked Stax to design one for them.


----------



## JimL11

ampeezy said:


> Does the carbon currently max out at a 450V supply? and what differences are there if any between that and one with a 400V supply?


 

 In terms of sheer output, assuming no differences in sound quality, going from 400 volts to 450 volts buys you 1 dB increase in level prior to clipping.  Going from 400 volts to 500 volts buys you 2 dB.


----------



## Ampeezy

kevin gilmore said:


> Joamat is running one at 500V supplies with hand selected parts
> 
> Probably not a great idea
> 
> If you use an alternate version of the current source with 4686a you can go to 600v


 
  


jiml11 said:


> In terms of sheer output, assuming no differences in sound quality, going from 400 volts to 450 volts buys you 1 dB increase in level prior to clipping.  Going from 400 volts to 500 volts buys you 2 dB.


 
 Not much worth then for going higher in voltage, as I have ample headroom, and I also assume It will turn into a toaster. I don't get how people have carbons that run cool.
 Also beyond clipping, there must be some sonic advantages otherwise why would some try to build the circlotron? I dont much about it, but I always thought It was more like a KGSSUHV ( Kevin Gilmore Solid State *Ultra* High Voltage) lol.


----------



## Whitigir

Carbon runs hot....it is not cool


----------



## hpeter

Recalculated my setup, it looks like this at 100Vrms out. (LL1660 36mA 2:2,25+2,25 center tap)
Below <20Hz cannot hear much; >30Hz is fine. So far in music i have not noticed deficiency, during tone sweep it was noticeable. Kind of a can´t-turn-off subsonics filter, hmm

Back to the discussion, i read some thread where people measured gyrators, it seems parasitic capacitances in mosfet does reduce it´s properties. Mostly the Cdg does the harm. Ideally a gyrator which would be AC shielded from circuit; could maintain it´s performance even at treble frequencies; bass seems unharmed


----------



## Ampeezy

whitigir said:


> Carbon runs hot....it is not cool


 
 right


----------



## kevin gilmore

nothing I have ever built including the t2 and the megatron get as hot as a krell fpb600
  
 hot is a relative term. if you can hold onto it for 5 seconds it is not too hot. (does not apply to the tubes themselves)


----------



## yates7592

whitigir said:


> Carbon runs hot....it is not cool




My headinclouds build Carbon runs warm at most, never hot.


----------



## Whitigir

yates7592 said:


> My headinclouds build Carbon runs warm at most, never hot.




The transistors are all running very hot, and if your chassis doesn't get that hot, it means the heat dissipation from your transistors is not efficient enough. My transistors run upto 56-60 C and while my chassis runs upto 46-47 C easily, it will remains stable for hours on end and that is hot.


----------



## yates7592

Or the heat sinks on my chassis are more efficient? All I know is it sounds amazing, and like you the best quality bass I've ever heard in a set of headphones.


----------



## Ampeezy

yates7592 said:


> Or the heat sinks on my chassis are more efficient? All I know is it sounds amazing, and like you the best quality bass I've ever heard in a set of headphones.


 
 Which headphones do you have??
  
 Also, that krell amp is a monstrosity


----------



## Whitigir

yates7592 said:


> Or the heat sinks on my chassis are more efficient? All I know is it sounds amazing, and like you the best quality bass I've ever heard in a set of headphones.




True  and yea, the Carbon + 009 is magically amazing in the bass department, given that I love quality Bass


----------



## Feilong4

I've been occasionally listening to my Stax system for a few weeks now, but I have ultimately decided that the electrostatic sound presentation just isn't for me.
  
 I'm sorry in advance for advertising, but if anyone is interested I'm selling my system here on the Sale forums.
  
 Link to it here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/842331/stax-setup-sr-407-srm-300-310-wooden-stax-stand-stax-dust-cover-us-transformer-shipping-included-trade-for-hd800-andromeda-etc
  
 I feel my listing will be much appreciated if I let peeps here know.
  
 Comes with:
 - SR-407 Earspeakers
 - SRM-300/310 Driver Unit
 - Transformer
 - Wooden Stax Stand
 - Stax Dust Cover


----------



## edwyun

whitigir said:


> The transistors are all running very hot, and if your chassis doesn't get that hot, it means the heat dissipation from your transistors is not efficient enough. My transistors run upto 56-60 C and while my chassis runs upto 46-47 C easily, it will remains stable for hours on end and that is hot.


 
  
 My Aleph 2 amps are spec'ed to run at 50-55 C.  No issues for many years (knock on wood).  Great for winters not so much for summers.


----------



## edwyun

yates7592 said:


> Or the heat sinks on my chassis are more efficient? All I know is it sounds amazing, and like you the best quality bass I've ever heard in a set of headphones.


 
  
 Hi bias into class A is good!


----------



## edwyun

As for Stax earphones, any recommendations for a replacement for my 90s era SRD7 for my Stax Lambda Pro's?


----------



## edwyun

feilong4 said:


> I've been occasionally listening to my Stax system for a few weeks now, but I have ultimately decided that the electrostatic sound presentation just isn't for me.


 
  
 Sorry to hear that.  Care to provide any specifics as to why?


----------



## Feilong4

edwyun said:


> Sorry to hear that.  Care to provide any specifics as to why?


 
  
 Sure, I just prefer the bass impact that dynamic drivers usually provide. I found myself reaching for my T1's a lot more, even though the treble response is much more natural and forgiving on the SR-407.


----------



## yates7592

ampeezy said:


> Which headphones do you have??
> 
> Also, that krell amp is a monstrosity




SR009


----------



## Whitigir

feilong4 said:


> Sure, I just prefer the bass impact that dynamic drivers usually provide. I found myself reaching for my T1's a lot more, even though the treble response is much more natural and forgiving on the SR-407.




No, that is wrong. I love bass, and I took those myths that you just said for years + Stax is stationary only "electro stat can't not get dynamic bass". That was why I never looked up into Stax and kept going on with dynamic. I now have Utopia + TAZH1ES, and it still could not satisfy me. Yes, bass was good on Utopia, but not as good as on A proper setup of Stax system. Trust me when I say this, quality audio will be expensive, and even more expensive on Dynamic set up to get a good system that can not even get as good as a proper Stax system. "Dynamic system can not get what Stax can provide !"

KGSSHV Carbon + SR009 is a bass monster, the kind of magical bass, real resolution bass and realistic. Not to mention soundstage, details, treble....etc...If you go for a cheap system whether Stax or dynamic, you will never get the real quality you seek for, they just don't exist. You can try what I tried, find your preferences, enjoy it, then eventually move on again simply because your brain just won't accept it....I could not fool mine, otherwise I would go with Beats by Dre and an IPod. They are bass monster!

I would sell my Utopia and TA-ZH1ES together, but the advantage is that Utopia can be driven out of many portable sources and while my TA-ZH1ES is a good compact headphone/amp together. These two will serve as a dynamic system just fine. It is in no way can be compared to Carbon and 009

After all, I just have to insert this " your experiences will varies upon personal preferences ". The above I shared to you were simply what I found out on my journey.  and hence I had to disagree with it. I can assure you that now there are 2 ways to make me spill my morning coffee

1/ someone to tell me that cables don't make a different

2/ Electro stat lack the bass that a dynamic system has


----------



## Pokemonn

yeah even my modified 727 + 24bit EQed 009 are bass monster too.  they sound very euphonic/rich bass.
 almost dynamic driver can't go 10Hz.


----------



## Whitigir

pokemonn said:


> yeah even my modified 727 + 24bit EQed 009 are bass monster too.  they sound very euphonic/rich bass.
> almost dynamic driver can't go 10Hz.




And that is another magical bass that no dynamic headphones can match....


----------



## Feilong4

whitigir said:


> No, that is wrong. I love bass, and I took those myths that you just said for years + Stax is stationary only "electro stat can't not get dynamic bass". That was why I never looked up into Stax and kept going on with dynamic. I now have Utopia + TAZH1ES, and it still could not satisfy me. Yes, bass was good on Utopia, but not as good as on A proper setup of Stax system. Trust me when I say this, quality audio will be expensive, and even more expensive on Dynamic set up to get a good system that can not even get as good as a proper Stax system. "Dynamic system can not get what Stax can provide !"
> 
> KGSSHV Carbon + SR009 is a bass monster, the kind of magical bass, real resolution bass and realistic. Not to mention soundstage, details, treble....etc...If you go for a cheap system whether Stax or dynamic, you will never get the real quality you seek for, they just don't exist. You can try what I tried, find your preferences, enjoy it, then eventually move on again simply because your brain just won't accept it....I could not fool mine, otherwise I would go with Beats by Dre and an IPod. They are bass monster!
> 
> ...


 
  
 I shouldn't have generalized, and should have been more specific. From what I've heard, I much prefer the T1's over the SR-407 in terms of bass impact and separation of sound. There are things I like about the SR-407, but also other things that I dislike. I don't have too many things to dislike about the T1's if any.
  
 One thing I don't like about the SR-407 (and which apparently exists even on the SR-007 and/or SR-009) is the "Stax fart". It's very distracting and though it could remedied with a straw apparently (have not tried), I'd much rather grab my T1's. Much more comfortable with the T1's either way.
  
 Another thing I dislike with the SR-407 is around 1kHz-2kHz. I found it make vocals a bit harsh at louder volumes and EQ'd that down by 2-3 db. I have not seen measurements that will prove my findings, but I found them much easier to listen to at louder volumes once I've done so.
  
 The last 'dislike' is that I found a lack of "engagement" with the SR-407. Seemingly, everything sounds easy-going besides the 1kHz-2kHz region. I know it's very heavily influenced from my time with the T1.
  
 Maybe if I had a higher end model, I would be able to experience what you've experienced. Unfortunately, the SR-009 + KGSSHV Carbon set up is very pricey, and my T1's with the Crack and Speedball is pretty satisfactory. Of course, that does not mean I am not curious as to the other things I haven't heard yet, which is why I still try out other things.
  
 Maybe in the future, I'll be able to afford your set up with the SR-009 and experience what you've experienced. I believe it's ok to have differing experiences though because I don't necessarily think I'm "wrong". I probably just have not heard the right set up yet.
  
  


pokemonn said:


> yeah even my modified 727 + 24bit EQed 009 are bass monster too.  they sound very euphonic/rich bass.
> almost dynamic driver can't go 10Hz.


 
  
  


whitigir said:


> And that is another magical bass that no dynamic headphones can match....


 
  
 As much as I'd would love to hear it's "magical bass", I have become very skeptical from experience with differing opinions on some headphones with some reviews. It took me a while before dropping on the Stax system that I had. Again, it's not bad, I just prefer my T1 with the Crack and speedball.
  
 I'm sure your set ups sound amazing and I'm not denying it one bit. I'll just explore my options in the meantime.


----------



## hpeter

feilong4 said:


> Sure,* I just prefer the bass impact that dynamic drivers usually provide.* I found myself reaching for my T1's a lot more, even though the treble response is much more natural and forgiving on the SR-407.


 600 Ω elephant heavy coils will resonate -wiggle like crazy, giving good sense of deep bass.
 I´m familiar with that... DT 990 PRO 250Ω (yeah but muffled treble, mids..)

Stax foil is weightless, tight, no resonances. 
 Breaking seal this way (bass fart mod) will give some low end rumble. Carefully lift (only tiny part) glued pad, and insert a plastic tube, or two. Too big port will make it boomy. Tube 1cm or so diameter. 
 It is reversible, but sometimes the glue patch will stop holding well.
Experimented with this for some time, therefore hotglue can be seen.


----------



## Feilong4

hpeter said:


> 600 Ω elephant heavy coils will resonate -wiggle like crazy, giving good sense of deep bass.
> I´m familiar with that... DT 990 PRO 250Ω (yeah but muffled treble, mids..)
> 
> Stax foil is weightless, tight, no resonances.
> ...


 
 Yeah, I clarified my thoughts in my later post. I take back what I said about electrostatics and bass, as I haven't heard every electrostatic set ups out there so I can't generalize. Even so, I prefer the bass impact on the T1 over the SR-407. I'm referring bass impact as to how punchy it is. The bass/mid-bass on the SR-407 seems to be soft in comparison lacking a sense of "engagement". The SR-407 does seem to extend lower though. I'm not saying the SR-407 represents every electrostatics either. I'm merely comparing the T1 and the SR-407.
  
 I don't know how close the DT990 Pro 250 Ohm is to the T1, but I would assume the T1 would offer much more sonic advantages since it's Beyerdynamic's past flagship (I say past because of the existence of the second generation). I have yet to hear anyone say that the T1's sound muffled in the treble and mids. I don't know whether you meant that or not.


----------



## edwyun

feilong4 said:


> Sure, I just prefer the bass impact that dynamic drivers usually provide. I found myself reaching for my T1's a lot more, even though the treble response is much more natural and forgiving on the SR-407.


 
  
  
 I don't disagree with your assessment about "impact".  Hard to get impact with an openback phones IMHO.


----------



## edwyun

whitigir said:


> 2/ Electro stat lack the bass that a dynamic system has


 
  
  
 I would not say lacking in bass because if the recording has it, the Stax will reproduce it faithfully.  However, you often don't feel the effect of the bass as you potentially can in other setups.  And I'm not talking about too much bass either.  I've always thought that it was partly due to the openback setup because you cannot usually develop sufficient sound pressure levels,.


----------



## Whitigir

edwyun said:


> I would not say lacking in bass because if the recording has it, the Stax will reproduce it faithfully.  However, you often don't feel the effect of the bass as you potentially can in other setups.  And I'm not talking about too much bass either.  I've always thought that it was partly due to the openback setup because you cannot usually develop sufficient sound pressure levels,.




That is also not true. How did you come to the above conclusion is beyond me

I came across Z1R, Utopia and now 900. I can totally assure you that a proper setup 900 has impacts, deep bass rumbling to the closest of real Expensive speakers rather than headphones. Neither Z1R nor Utopia can match the bass of 900. If I had not, then I would also sit on your conclusion as it just makes senses, and it came from many other myths flying around as well.


----------



## Ampeezy

Sr-007 is as impactful and extended as the song calls for, and I have had my fair share of headphones known for amazing bass like the Audeze LCD-2


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

well in my experience, orthos and good dynamics have better extension than say an L300/700, but what the Stax have is a tasteful midbass presence that honeys your music. Even my HD800S extends better below 80hz (i think), they are a bit cold still and not as inviting when you compare them to Stax (or even anything else for that matter)


----------



## Whitigir

ampeezy said:


> Sr-007 is as impactful and extended as the song calls for, and I have had my fair share of headphones known for amazing bass like the Audeze LCD-2




Matter of fact, I don't care for Utopia + Tazh1es anymore sitting down and listen to it. I rather use 009+carbon instead. Here is the craziest thing about 009 bass. It is deadly spot on and balances. Utopia has a lot of midbass impact and dynamic resolutions but Sub bass is not as detailed and extended as 009 while Z1R has too much sub-bass and the mid bass is colored with a "too warmth" signature. Personal preferences aside, true quality is always true. 009+carbon has the most balances, beautiful bass that I have ever heard, and is deadly spot on with realistical and neutrality.

So once again let me break this egg to you in preparation for Esters. There is no such thing as cheap system and performances. If you keep at mid-tier level, ofcourse you will have compromises regardless of system. But the best Dynamic can not match and compare to the best of ES.

To think Stax is open back, you have the wrong idea. The membranes cover the whole thing through and through, the gaps is very little, sounds are produced both ways as the membranes vibrate and swing back and forth, but it is not openback....ever heard of Stax fart ? That is because the membranes and the Pads form a closed seal of air space....now....explain to me how is that open back ?
Confused...opened design vs open back
Edit: Wait....I never had the chance to hear the mythical beast "Orpheus 1 and 2"....let's just say the highend of Stax


----------



## Spork67

edwyun said:


> feilong4 said:
> 
> 
> > Sure, I just prefer the bass impact that dynamic drivers usually provide. I found myself reaching for my T1's a lot more, even though the treble response is much more natural and forgiving on the SR-407.
> ...


 
  
  


edwyun said:


> whitigir said:
> 
> 
> > 2/ Electro stat lack the bass that a dynamic system has
> ...


 
  
  
 Do you know you can multi quote replies rather than double-posting?


----------



## behwatch

whitigir said:


> To think Stax is open back, you have the wrong idea. The membranes cover the whole thing through and through, the gaps is very little, sounds are produced both ways as the membranes vibrate and swing back and forth, but it is not openback....ever heard of Stax fart ? That is because the membranes and the Pads form a closed seal of air space....now....explain to me how is that open back ?




Stax 009, 007 and most stax are open backs... Open back are those headphones u can hear ur surroundings with them on.


----------



## Whitigir

behwatch said:


> Stax 009, 007 and most stax are open backs... Open back are those headphones u can hear ur surroundings with them on.




Is this isolation or is it open back design that we are talking about ? Where there are open air vs closed air space between the drivers and the ears ? Open vs closed design ? Actually I was confused, yeah open back design is where the back is open. It has nothing to do with bass impacts....that is a myth. Can anyone please tell me that there are closedback design that can outperform Stax 009 or Utopia or HD800 properly amped ? We need to clear up these myths


----------



## behwatch

whitigir said:


> Is this isolation or is it open back design that we are talking about ? Where there are open air vs closed air space between the drivers and the ears ?



I am talking about the design.
It is a characteristic of being open backed. Means nothing is covering the membrane behind it. Doesn't mean there is a seal between the ear and the membrane.
Closed back, the membrane will be covered by plastic, wood or metal.


----------



## Whitigir

behwatch said:


> I am talking about the design.
> It is a characteristic of being open backed. Means nothing is covering the membrane behind it. Doesn't mean there is a seal between the ear and the membrane.
> Closed back, the membrane will be covered by plastic, wood or metal.




That is true, I was confused because whenever I hear this myth closed back has more impact than open back.....I mean really, can whoever stated that tell me the exact headphones that they referred and pointed to as being closed back or closed design to have more bass impact and quality than those that are sitting on the top of the chains ? Show me something that is closed back and can beat Utopia for example. Don't bring in personal preferences because we are talking about engineering stand point here. Preferences beats by Dre has more bass impact than Utopia to my wife who doesn't care about headphones....especially a 4K one

I know for a fact that Z1R is one of the best closed back design, and it has nowhere the bass resolution, dynamic, impacts that Utopia does. I would be very very very insterested to buy this closed back "being", period


----------



## behwatch

Dont think I have heard closed backs that has better bass impact/resolution than Stax 009/Carbon.
  
 But for bass weight, sometimes I still like to use closed backs.


----------



## astrostar59

whitigir said:


> behwatch said:
> 
> 
> > Stax 009, 007 and most stax are open backs... Open back are those headphones u can hear ur surroundings with them on.
> ...


 

 I would have to comment that the Utopia and HD800 are not known as bass monsters if you are still talking bass responses here. Inner Fidelity for example set 5dB bass boost in their review for example, and having heard the HD800 I got the impression it was a bit tipped up in response.
  
 IMO the Stax 009 well amped (Carbon, BHSE) has great bass as in resolution and frequency response, i.e. it goes super low, but I have heard more 'impact' on an LCD3 for example. Personally I would take the 009s bass for the detail and texture and it's lack of 'one note' bass as some bass heavier designs can tend to be (and speakers as well in some cases).
  
 The Stax sound is different, and you either dig it or not. The ones that do can be supper happy, the ones that don't move on and buy planers etc.
  
 An observation on the 009s bass. I have played with EQ quite a bit, and as in a single driver speaker design any extra bass seems to rob the soundstage and transparency as I imagine in this case, the panels are having to do more of everything at once including more movement in the bass which is where panel or speaker extension is the greatest. They seem to get swamped. It seems to slow down and thicken the mid and upper frequencies to me. Unless the source material is bass slight, I believe it is too high a price for the extra bass effect.
  
 And taking that as an example, 'possibly' Stax just can't get more bass output out of a single driver without such a sacrifice? I have putting this out as a ball park theory, I have no facts to back that up obviously, only my hearing observations and my theory. Thoughts welcome!
  
 As regards HP designs and indeed speaker design, I guess there is always going to be a limit or physical limits to what is possible. How many single speaker designs have you seen that have a response of 20hz - 20Khz within 3dB? I would say not one. So in my mind where we are at with HPs today is quite incredible actually.


----------



## VandyMan

astrostar59 said:


> I have played with EQ quite a bit, and as in a single driver speaker design any extra bass seems to rob the soundstage and transparency


 

 I've been using the digital PEQ in the latest version of Roon quite a bit. I find that just a touch of extra bass really improves the 009. Try like 1.5 db at 20 Hz, rolling off at 50 Hz.  I also find that a little cross-feed reduces the in-your-face quality that Ether C Flow has on certain recordings. With the 009, I find that cross-feed takes away that midrange magic that I love.


----------



## astrostar59

vandyman said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > I have played with EQ quite a bit, and as in a single driver speaker design any extra bass seems to rob the soundstage and transparency
> ...


 
 I put any loss of SQ in the digital domain (EQ on a PC) may be down to resampling the bits, i.e. the data is altered then fed to the DAC. I prefer if at all possible to feed unaffected from the player. My DAC is NOS, so maybe e different to the DS popular approach of up sampling first then feeding the DAC. In a way it may be better (less loss) the old way when we had analogue tone controls, well possibly. I also find the perceived loss v gains in using EQ varies with the software used.


----------



## Failed Engineer

Has anyone owned a 4070 with one of the top amps (KGSSHV Carbon, BHSE, T2, etc)?  I've tried to find impressions but haven't been successful.


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## astrostar59

failed engineer said:


> Has anyone owned a 4070 with one of the top amps (KGSSHV Carbon, BHSE, T2, etc)?  I've tried to find impressions but haven't been successful.


 

 Ask at the 'other place'.


----------



## Tinkerer

failed engineer said:


> Has anyone owned a 4070 with one of the top amps (KGSSHV Carbon, BHSE, T2, etc)?  I've tried to find impressions but haven't been successful.



 


4070 owners are pretty rare, since both the headphones are pretty rare and also that for what they go for nowadays, most people would rather have a SR-007 or something. I think spritzer has one though.


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## Pokemonn

astrostar59 said:


> An observation on the 009s bass. I have played with EQ quite a bit, and as in a single driver speaker design any extra bass seems to rob the soundstage and transparency as I imagine in this case, the panels are having to do more of everything at once including more movement in the bass which is where panel or speaker extension is the greatest. They seem to get swamped. It seems to slow down and thicken the mid and upper frequencies to me. Unless the source material is bass slight, I believe it is too high a price for the extra bass effect.


 
  
 Yes, you may be right. I have been trying to use hardware EQer. but i have never satisfied with results completely. 
 also my hardware EQer DEQ2496 has huge jitter. for me its love/hate relationship with it.


----------



## Ampeezy

thegadaffiduck said:


> well in my experience, orthos and good dynamics have better extension than say an L300/700, but what the Stax have is a tasteful midbass presence that honeys your music. Even my HD800S extends better below 80hz (i think), they are a bit cold still and not as inviting when you compare them to Stax (or even anything else for that matter)


 
 Hey there, you never did a comparison of your sr-007 to the L700. I assume you have them both by now


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## TheGadaffiDuck

ampeezy said:


> Hey there, you never did a comparison of your sr-007 to the L700. I assume you have them both by now


 
 Yeah i do. I think you can tell by my for sale page which one i like better lol, but its not a matter of what is better, but what you prefer at this point in time.
  
 So here's the breakdown.
  
 Bass Extension: 007 > L700, probably because of the L700s lack of an absolute seal like the old lambdas/007s have
 Bass Texture: 007 >>>> L700.
  
 Bass Impact: Man this depends on the song. I wanna say 007s if the Bass Drum is tuned lower and EQ boosted in the sub frequencies (like below 40hz), the 007s again will pick it up so much better, especially in electronic music. The L700s on the other hand are no slouch, but I really wanna say the L700s are better cause they have a bit more midbass, and have a nice kick drum thud. Hard to decide.
  
 Midrange: L700s = SR-007. Seriously they are very close if not the same in this respect.
  
 Treble Presence: L700s > SR-007
 Treble Extension: L700s > SR-007
  
 Imaging: Technically SR007 > L700, Preference L700 > SR007. Technically speaking the 007 has better accuracy in the stereo image, but my preference is determined how the image is presented. The difference has to do with the angled drivers of the L700s, in which i noticed it has a speaker like stereo imaging almost, where the sound appears like its infront of you. 007 is very much in your head like normal pairs of headphones are.
  
 Soundstage: L700 > SR007. L700s are almost always wider by default cause of the angled drivers, but if you give the 007s a nice and wide instrument track the 007s are better.
  
 Instrument Seperation: 007 > L700 but not by much. I'm giving the 007s because of its abilities with more instrumental/acoustic music in this regard.
  
 Result: Keep the L700s because of its greater engagement, and presence in the treble, and it's stereo Image since i got into the audio game on angled drivers and good speakers. A bit better imaging, bass, and instrument seperation isnt enough for me to keep $3000 headphones, especially when ive had headphones that were just as good in some of these respects for less. Personally i would sell both and get another L300, because holy cow this adventure into top end stax costed me a lot of money. The L700s are better, but price performance of the L300s is unbelievable. Maybe part of me just thinks that the L700 doesnt do enough for me to justify the $1300 price difference, and thats why i have been thinking of handing this one off to someone else too.


----------



## Ampeezy

> Result: Keep the L700s because of its greater engagement, and presence in the treble, and it's stereo Image since i got into the audio game on angled drivers and good speakers. A bit better imaging, bass, and instrument seperation isnt enough for me to keep $3000 headphones, especially when ive had headphones that were just as good in some of these respects for less. Personally i would sell both and get another L300, because holy cow this adventure into top end stax costed me a lot of money. The L700s are better, but price performance of the L300s is unbelievable. Maybe part of me just thinks that the L700 doesnt do enough for me to justify the $1300 price difference, and thats why i have been thinking of handing this one off to someone else too.


 
 Nice to see your take on these phones. I wish you could hear the sr-007 on my setup, just sublime. Literally a black background, I'm sure as a result of almost zero distortion and driver speed. I have to hear an sr-009 soon, and see how it stacks up.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

ampeezy said:


> Nice to see your take on these phones. I wish you could hear the sr-007 on my setup, just sublime. Literally a black background, I'm sure as a result of almost zero distortion and driver speed. I have to hear an sr-009 soon, and see how it stacks up.


 
 No amount of Preparedness would convince me to spend $5000 on an amplifier; probably why im getting rid of the 007 to begin with (maybe the L700 n back to a L300.) The most i could spend on an Amplifier would be the Ragnarock, because it is convenient with my setup, given it has speaker outputs, and enough power in its headphone output to power HE6 pretty damn well, and gain stages to power everything else below that with out destroying the headphone.


----------



## vapman

thegadaffiduck said:


> No amount of Preparedness would convince me to spend $5000 on an amplifier; probably why im getting rid of the 007 to begin with (maybe the L700 n back to a L300.) The most i could spend on an Amplifier would be the Ragnarock, because it is convenient with my setup, given it has speaker outputs, and enough power in its headphone output to power HE6 pretty damn well, and gain stages to power everything else below that with out destroying the headphone.


 
 Look at all the people who have been here for over a decade and use budget headphones out of TOTL amps here and love it. same holds true of stax. we keep trying to tell you, believe in the  power of the amp!


----------



## Ampeezy

vapman said:


> Look at all the people who have been here for over a decade and use budget headphones out of TOTL amps here and love it. same holds true of stax. we keep trying to tell you, believe in the  power of the amp!


 
 ditto


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

vapman said:


> Look at all the people who have been here for over a decade and use budget headphones out of TOTL amps here and love it. same holds true of stax. we keep trying to tell you, believe in the  power of the amp!




Maybe when i win the lottery


----------



## behwatch

vapman said:


> Look at all the people who have been here for over a decade and use budget headphones out of TOTL amps here and love it. same holds true of stax. we keep trying to tell you, believe in the  power of the amp!




Agreed that the amp makes a whole lot of difference (727 vs Carbon). But now I tend to match the price of amp with the headphone price. So that the bottleneck will not be with the lower priced equipment.


----------



## paradoxper

The T2 is a ******* myth. So, uh, exhausted with this process. I am not quite sure how Justin puts up with these people.
  


 No pain, no gain, right. Ugh.


----------



## Whitigir

Looking good, when will it be done


----------



## Ampeezy

whitigir said:


> Looking good, when will it be done


 
  Kappa


----------



## kensonic

Are there any news regarding the new amp from Stax ? Any chance for this year ?


----------



## deuter

kensonic said:


> Are there any news regarding the new amp from Stax ? Any chance for this year ?



 


You referring to the T2 gen 2 ?


----------



## kensonic

I am referring to an interview with a Stax representative (head R&D ?) which I have seen some months ago (link was provided in this forum). He stated/confirmed that Stax is developing a new amp but there was no clear statement when it will be released.


----------



## Whitigir

kensonic said:


> I am referring to an interview with a Stax representative (head R&D ?) which I have seen some months ago (link was provided in this forum). He stated/confirmed that Stax is developing a new amp but there was no clear statement when it will be released.




Rom what people speculate, it won't be beating Gilmore designs. It probably get close to Kgst ? I would say just stick to Gilmore and stay happy for a while longer


----------



## Tachikoma

failed engineer said:


> Has anyone owned a 4070 with one of the top amps (KGSSHV Carbon, BHSE, T2, etc)?  I've tried to find impressions but haven't been successful.


 
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/vintage-stax-headphone-measurements-and-comments#W9wHao5Y3I0xih0R.97
  
 There's a 4070 in there, and Tyll has a BHSE or something I believe.


----------



## arnaud

kensonic said:


> I am referring to an interview with a Stax representative (head R&D ?) which I have seen some months ago (link was provided in this forum). He stated/confirmed that Stax is developing a new amp but there was no clear statement when it will be released.




http://www.head-fi.org/t/829843/stax-sr-009-and-t2-successors-confirmed-for-spring-2017/90_30#post_13408434


----------



## anticute

I have not read this entire thread, so apologies if this has been answered before.
  
 I have the opportunity to buy the "old" Lambda, with a SRD-7 SB (don't know what the SB stands for) for about $300. Is this a good deal, and should I go for it?
  
 Currently, my main headphones are K7XX, how would these compare when it comes to SQ, details, sound signature etc?
  
 Also, I understand that the SRD-7 needs the signal from a normal amplifier, but would it work with 230V without a voltage converter?
  
 I would greatly appreciate if someone could help me out a bit, I've never used or heard electrostats..


----------



## astrostar59

anticute said:


> I have not read this entire thread, so apologies if this has been answered before.
> 
> I have the opportunity to buy the "old" Lambda, with a SRD-7 SB (don't know what the SB stands for) for about $300. Is this a good deal, and should I go for it?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would take care on that. It is really old, and probably will need some refurbishment on the HPs (pads at least) and I would question if the SRD-7 is ok as well. I had this system back in 1980 and it was ok then I guess. The normal bias Lambda was a bit etched in the treble and very bass light. With a typical DAC front end it will sound thin and brittle IMO. The other issue is you will need a speaker switch on the amp outputs, or the unit will be fed permanently while you also feed your speakers.
  
 My view is keep saving and go for a used Stax amp and a pro Lambda like the Lambda Nova Signature which in the one I had was much smoother and had decent bass response. i.e. more like the current Stax sound.


----------



## Pokemonn

dubharmonic said:


> razornova said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone tried adding a tube preamp before a stax solid state amp for some tube flavor? Would love it know if anyone has managed to get good results doing so.
> ...


 

 sorry resurrect old post. Questyle advertise say SR-009 needs a pre-amp. In my experience. pre-amp tend to remove 007/009s treble etch/brightness. it sounds oh so smooth and addictive.
 i use Luxman DA-200 build-in class A buffer pre-amp to feed modified 727.and it really works.
  
 http://www.questyleaudio.com/product-CMA800P
  
*The Questyle Audio CMA800P Pre-amp  *​
 

Even the very best occasionally needs a little help. Presenting the Questyle Audio CMA800P, commissioned by STAX, to bring out the full potential of their Flagship SR-009 electrostatic earspeaker system. All hand made in Japan, and only available on a custom order basis, the pinnacle of the STAX line, the SR-009 provides sound with a natural clarity and exquisite detail demanded by the most discerning of audiophiles, but to bring out their full dynamics, to provide unprecedented deep, articulate and controlled bass, to remove that last bit of haze in the treble, *a pre-amp was needed*, and STAX felt that only Questyle Audio, had the technological expertise, and the auditory finesse to build it.


----------



## dubharmonic

pokemonn said:


> sorry resurrect old post. Questyle advtise say SR-009 needs pre-amp. In my experience. pre-amp tend to remove 007/009s treble etch/brightness.
> i use Luxman DA-200 build-in pre-amp to feed modified 727.and it really works.


 
  
 I happen to like the combination of brightness and speed that comes with Stax setups. It's what sets them apart from dynamics and planar magnetics.


----------



## labrat

The SRD-7 SB (Self Biasing) is for Normal bias only, and here in Norway a fair state version can be had for less than USD 30.
 They are also multi-voltage, unless stated in the back they are set for a specific voltage (some actually were).
 The old Stax headphone is, as previously stated, also possibly heavy worn, so you should check the state it is in.
 The price is not low anyway.
 I was offered, in a shop, not so long ago, a demoed SR-207 for USD 300.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

astrostar59 said:


> I would take care on that. It is really old, and probably will need some refurbishment on the HPs (pads at least) and I would question if the SRD-7 is ok as well. I had this system back in 1980 and it was ok then I guess. The normal bias Lambda was a bit etched in the treble and very bass light. With a typical DAC front end it will sound thin and brittle IMO. The other issue is you will need a speaker switch on the amp outputs, or the unit will be fed permanently while you also feed your speakers.
> 
> My view is keep saving and go for a used Stax amp and a pro Lambda like the Lambda Nova Signature which in the one I had was much smoother and had decent bass response. i.e. more like the current Stax sound.


 
 Respectfully disagree.
  
 Lambda NB are one of the least etched of all Lambdas, especially out of SRD boxes. Extension and details are not as good as Lambda Nova Signature, but they have kinda foot tapping signature, very pleasing. And they are all around very well balanced, more engaging than the dull-ish LNS.
  
 OTH, if old Lambdas could often show their age, SRD boxes are pretty indestructible, so no real worry on the transformer. Moreover, NB boxes are very common and very cheap, and they already act like a switch : on = headphones, off = passive pass-thru to speakers
  
 Anyway, 300$ for a SRD-7 + Lambda could be a fair price if (and only if) condition is very good. For a well-balanced sound avoiding the potential issues of vintage, I would go new Lambda line (L300/L500/L700).
  
 Ali


----------



## astrostar59

Check out this thread for more info
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/588716/vintage-stax-repair-and-maintenance
  
 Going back to my first Lambda basic and SRD-7 it was ok, as an entry to Stax, but hardly representative of the later models IMO. Also be careful, the SRD-7 may be ok if not abused, but the HPs will probably have aged badly, coating can be damaged, dust problems, foam surrounds gone etc. My advice, for that money look for something more recent. Even if the set was stored for years, the contacts in the drivers could have corroded and damp in a garage or attic would not be kind. 
  
 They do come up, I would keep looking.
  
 https://www.hifishark.com/model/stax-srs-2020-basic


----------



## JimL11

In my limited experience the old Stax headphones and transformer boxes are very reliable.  I have had an SR-5 headphone since the mid-80s, and I recently picked up a set of SR-3 New phones that are even older that worked perfectly.


----------



## ericj

jiml11 said:


> In my limited experience the old Stax headphones and transformer boxes are very reliable.  I have had an SR-5 headphone since the mid-80s, and I recently picked up a set of SR-3 New phones that are even older that worked perfectly.


 
  
 The electrets are susceptible to damage from being driven too hard, I believe there have been reports of damaged drivers of the type that come in the SR-X and SR-Γ as well. 
  
I have an SR-5 i got cheap by way of Spritzer due to a channel imbalance. Turned out it just needed the wiring fiddled with. Probably corrosion on the connectors. 
  
Some of the old drivers need a lot of time to "warm up" or "charge" or something. And some get quieter the longer they are plugged in. This is mostly a problem with the Stax OEM products from Radioshack, Philips, Marantz, etc, that are basically an SR-3 driver, right? 
  
 Foam does degrade but it can be replaced. I don't see how dust could be a problem unless there is physical damage to the dust cover that all Staxen have on the drivers. 
  
 Micro-Seiki electrostats are pretty rare these days, probably because they used an unstable polymer in the drivers. You won't find a pair that works and still has the original drivers. 
  
 Some Koss ESP-950 develop a buzz or whine, but Koss fixes them for free no questions asked. ESP-6 and ESP-9 and presumably ESP-10 often suffer from dead ear pads (in stock for $5) and ear-sweat related corrosion on the contacts, as well as dead form in the cups. 
  
 The transformer boxes don't have anything in them that can "age". It's possible that SQ could be improved by replacing the components with modern equivalents that have a lower noise profile, but a little doubtful. Some people remove the PTC thermistors and MOVs from the boards, but i think this is probably a bad idea. I've been working, on and off, on boards to update an old SRD-7 to basically an SRD-7 MkII, with some adjustments, basically the best ideas from all of the transformer boxes. But I don't have any ready to sell. I need to print out and test another revision.


----------



## bearFNF

My Lamda NB and SRD7/SB have worked fine since we bought them in the 80's.

Also as a note, my SRD7/SB does not have a power plug. Just runs off the speaker taps of a power amp. Recommend at least 15 amps for run it.


----------



## Jaab

I saw in yahoo auctions japan a strange amplifier compatible stax and dynamics headphones but no logo it's
apparent. Has Somebody some information about it? 

http://page12.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/p549168219

Thanks


----------



## Tinkerer

It's two separate amps in the same box or a couple transformers for voltage hooked up to the dynamic amp. It's the only way you can do that. Not a recipe for a good electrostatic amp in either case, and a crazy price on top of that.


----------



## hpeter

jaab said:


> I saw in yahoo auctions japan a strange amplifier compatible stax and dynamics headphones but no logo it's
> apparent. Has Somebody some information about it?
> 
> http://page12.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/p549168219
> ...


 looks diy to me


----------



## Jaab

I was not interested,  but just curious! I saw already another one last year with a similar case but with less knobs
 Thanks


----------



## ericj

tinkerer said:


> It's two separate amps in the same box or a couple transformers for voltage hooked up to the dynamic amp. It's the only way you can do that. Not a recipe for a good electrostatic amp in either case, and a crazy price on top of that.


 
  
 My guess is that it's a low-wattage PP tube speaker amp, with the stax jack wired right where the transformer primaries are. 
  
 And yeah it looks DIY. 
  
 It's probably not bad. And it's probably not great either. I agree that for 100,000 yen aka $900 usd, I'd not bother.


----------



## Whitigir

The greatest stax amps are from DIY


----------



## astrostar59

whitigir said:


> The greatest stay amps are from DIY


 
 I am not sure anymore. The HE-1 and Shangri-La for example, not heard them but....
  
 The amount of high end amps for planars out this year seems to be on a roll, which to me says summit-fi is getting bigger and more folk are willing to spend on it. It is about time more manufacturers got on with a top Stat amp. 
  
 I wonder if the 009s and T2/BHSE/Carbon will stay at the top of the HPs for much longer (excluding the 2 x 50K amps of course). Some of the posts on the SoCal thread seem to be saying that may not be the case, with for example the Abyss MK2 and WA33 reaching new heights.
  
 Anyone know if the BHSE had NOS tubes in it? And which DAC was used. Those things matter, as does the material used. Only way I will be satisfied is I can hear them together at Can-Jam in London.


----------



## Whitigir

To me, it doesn't matter. DIY amps are expensive due to parts and labor alone. The more quality the parts, the more expensive it gets. Every other mass produced amps will have to go through so many people and process to finalize the price.....the more involved, the more expensive or less quality the product will be ( this is true just because KG is legendary for these designs, without him, to even think about these performances would cost not just an arm and leg )

Sure, people will pay, but the number are very very low which makes it a product for just "company status" alone. After all, you can always say "because it sounds good" and have it sold, period


----------



## deuter

astrostar59 said:


> I am not sure anymore. The HE-1 and Shangri-La for example, not heard them but....
> 
> The amount of high end amps for planars out this year seems to be on a roll, which to me says summit-fi is getting bigger and more folk are willing to spend on it. It is about time more manufacturers got on with a top Stat amp.
> 
> ...



 


FOTM


----------



## Whitigir

deuter said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > I am not sure anymore. The HE-1 and Shangri-La for example, not heard them but....
> ...




What ? Flavor of the month ?


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> Anyone know if the BHSE had NOS tubes in it? And which DAC was used. Those things matter, as does the material used. Only way I will be satisfied is I can hear them together at Can-Jam in London.


 
 New production Mullard tubes and Holo Spring KTE…don't know about the material.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

astrostar59 said:


> I am not sure anymore. The HE-1 and Shangri-La for example, not heard them but....


 
  
 Not impressed with Shangri-La.  HE-1 is the best I've heard from e-stat, or any HPs system.  Though I have not heard the DIYT2, but doubt that it can reach the HE-1's level.  If not for the kidney-costing-price...


----------



## Whitigir

sko0bydoo said:


> Not impressed with Shangri-La.  HE-1 is the best I've heard from e-stat, or any HPs system.  Though I have not heard the DIYT2, but doubt that it can reach the HE-1's level.  If not for the kidney-costing-price...




I have heard someone else stated the same thing


----------



## paradoxper

I've heard different from a few.


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone know if the BHSE had NOS tubes in it? And which DAC was used. Those things matter, as does the material used. Only way I will be satisfied is I can hear them together at Can-Jam in London.
> ...


 

 Interesting. Well right there they should have used NOS tubes to get the best out of the BHSE. I realise it doesn't come with NOS tubes and understand Justin has to demo it as it is sold to a customer. I wonder if the Woo Audio WA33 comes with NOS tubes as sold?


----------



## deuter

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. Well right there they should have used NOS tubes to get the best out of the BHSE. I realise it doesn't come with NOS tubes and understand Justin has to demo it as it is sold to a customer. I wonder if the Woo Audio WA33 comes with NOS tubes as sold?




The WA 33 comes with KR audio tubes not NOS.
They are in my opinion one of the best tube s in the world.
Not cheap but quality product.

And you don't need NOS Mullards in the BHSE as that will only smoothen the sound.


----------



## astrostar59

deuter said:


> And you don't need NOS Mullards in the BHSE as that will only smoothen the sound.


 
 Think many BHSE owners would disagree with that.... using the 009s


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. Well right there they should have used NOS tubes to get the best out of the BHSE. I realise it doesn't come with NOS tubes and understand Justin has to demo it as it is sold to a customer. I wonder if the Woo Audio WA33 comes with NOS tubes as sold?


 
  
 Right, HeadAamp needs to demo the BHSE in stock form.
 The WA33 comes with stock tubes as well.


----------



## hpeter

whitigir said:


> The greatest stax amps are from DIY


 1 Big benefit is, adjust whole thing to the taste / own design.. 
2 Not everything can be bought; or if it does exist -- often is too expensive. 
Then you are forced to diy.


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting. Well right there they should have used NOS tubes to get the best out of the BHSE. I realise it doesn't come with NOS tubes and understand Justin has to demo it as it is sold to a customer. I wonder if the Woo Audio WA33 comes with NOS tubes as sold?
> ...


 

 I was Woo use expensive tubes as part of the list price. So no problem with that, but it does mean a higher running cost. Likewise with the BHSE, only they demo that as stock. I would say the best way to get the best out of the BHSE is on NOS tubes such as Mullards which I have heard it with v new issue Mullards.


----------



## Whitigir

Btw, these new Mullards are authentic ? Or are they knock off , anyone know ?


----------



## ericj

whitigir said:


> Btw, these new Mullards are authentic ? Or are they knock off
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can there be such a thing as a "new" mullard?


----------



## Whitigir

ericj said:


> Can there be such a thing as a "new" mullard?




Yes, I found it here 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/162342077813?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Sko0byDoo

whitigir said:


> Btw, these new Mullards are authentic ? Or are they knock off , anyone know ?




New Mullards made in Russia. Same name due to a bought-out. Quality of new Mullards is not the as NOS made in england.


----------



## Whitigir

sko0bydoo said:


> New Mullards made in Russia. Same name due to a bought-out. Quality of new Mullards is not the as NOS made in england.




That is good to know ! As long as they are out and about to produce these tubes, I am sure they will start to evolve in the future . Thanks for confirming


----------



## VandyMan

astrostar59 said:


> Think many BHSE owners would disagree with that.... using the 009s


 

 Looking at your profile, you don't seem to be a BHSE owner and I did not vote for you as our spokesperson.  (kidding!)

 My memory is that Justin said the BHSE design is not all that sensitive to different tubes. The demand for NOS I guess is based on the idea that modern tubes are all flawed. When the tube amp revival started thirty or so years ago and few companies made tubes anymore, that was true, but is it still the case?


----------



## astrostar59

vandyman said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > Think many BHSE owners would disagree with that.... using the 009s
> ...


 

 Have you tried some NOS tubes? I would recommend it. The 009 is a bit bright on stock tubes. For tubes to try ask Mulveling or Purk, or TheAttorney.


----------



## astrostar59

ericj said:


> whitigir said:
> 
> 
> > Btw, these new Mullards are authentic ? Or are they knock off
> ...


 

 The new issues are made in Russia. Pretty much all that is the same is the name. The old tubes sound very different.


----------



## Whitigir

How different ? The older tubes are expensive like hell . I wonder if it is worth the price


----------



## bearFNF

I like the Shuguang Treasures I am using. FWIW.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Go Mesa Boogie. New and a bargain. Very happy with those.
  
 Check also those TheAttorney posts :
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/439657/headamp-blue-hawaii-special-edition/7680#post_12138337
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/641737/bhse-tube-rolling/30#post_12238201
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/439657/headamp-blue-hawaii-special-edition/5490#post_10691298

 Ali


----------



## VandyMan

astrostar59 said:


> Have you tried some NOS tubes? I would recommend it. The 009 is a bit bright on stock tubes.


 
 Yes, with other tube amps, I have tried NOS tubes. It gave the amp a warmer sound that I associate with greater second-order harmonic distortion. It is pleasant, but there was also a loss of resolution/transparency. It tends to give bass instruments a sound that I think of as round or juicy. Not sure if that is understandable, but it is great with some tracks. However, I like the way the 009 sounds stock, more or less. I find digital EQ more useful than tube rolling because I know what I'm getting and can make exact adjustments.


----------



## astrostar59

vandyman said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > Have you tried some NOS tubes? I would recommend it. The 009 is a bit bright on stock tubes.
> ...


 

 I know what you mean. I use some EQ on the 007s to light the treble a bit. The only trouble is, digital EQ does resample the bits, so some loss of speed and soundstage wish seems to occur. DMQ EQuick is as transparent as any EQ I have tried so far. Built in EQ's in players tend to be a bit crude.
  
 I would still say try some NOS Mullards if you get chance. It isn't just the treble quality, the midrange realism and presence on  the real deal Mullards is special, what they are famous for. And IMO avoid any EQ keeps things transparent / intact.


----------



## Whitigir

Is there any purple glowing el34 ?  Mesa look good...when and if I got my GG going lol


----------



## ericj

astrostar59 said:


> The new issues are made in Russia. Pretty much all that is the same is the name. The old tubes sound very different.


 
  
 Over on DIYAudio there are some who argue that some of the "reissue" tubes are substantially different from the standard tubes produced by the same factories. That some amount of work seems to have actually gone into making them like the old tube. 
  
 Don't have a clue, myself. I'm pretty sure that there's no such thing as a "new" mullard, or tung-sol, or etc.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

whitigir said:


> Is there any purple glowing el34 ?  Mesa look good...when and if I got my GG going lol




No mercury/purle-glowing for el34. However, you can have a purple-glowing rectifiers. Just replace the power supply ss diodes with mercury rectifiers  If wanting a tube galore, do a full-tube PS voltage regulation


----------



## Whitigir

sko0bydoo said:


> No mercury/purle-glowing for el34. However, you can have a purple-glowing rectifiers. Just replace the power supply ss diodes with mercury rectifiers  If wanting a tube galore, do a full-tube PS voltage regulation




Megatron would be a tube galore


----------



## Sko0byDoo

whitigir said:


> Megatron would be a tube galore


 
  
 Double-up as a room heater 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Have fun in your build!


----------



## VandyMan

astrostar59 said:


> I know what you mean. I use some EQ on the 007s to light the treble a bit. The only trouble is, digital EQ does resample the bits, so some loss of speed and soundstage wish seems to occur. DMQ EQuick is as transparent as any EQ I have tried so far. Built in EQ's in players tend to be a bit crude.
> 
> I would still say try some NOS Mullards if you get chance. It isn't just the treble quality, the midrange realism and presence on  the real deal Mullards is special, what they are famous for. And IMO avoid any EQ keeps things transparent / intact.




We will have to just agree to disagree on digital EQ. As far as tube rolling the BHSE, I'm probably missing out, but I can't let myself go down that rabbit hole. When I get home from work, I just want to flip on the amp and listen to music. No offense to those who enjoy comparing tubes and such; it is just not for me.


----------



## deuter

vandyman said:


> We will have to just agree to disagree on digital EQ. As far as tube rolling the BHSE, I'm probably missing out, but I can't let myself go down that rabbit hole. When I get home from work, I just want to flip on the amp and listen to music. No offense to those who enjoy comparing tubes and such; it is just not for me.



 


I'am the same as you, I agree with Justin that the amp is designed as such that output stage being valve is not impacted by variation in the tubes.
I do like to test a few tubes, and have done so with my Lampizator where tube changes made massive difference to an extent where the DAC changed quite significantly. But once settled in a set of tubes , that was it.

The price vs performance even by nth degree for changing the EL84's doesn't stack up for the BHSE and I would not recommend it.


----------



## aldavey

Oh you don't actually own the BHSE. May I respectfully ask on what you are basing your opinion of NOS tubes in the BHSE? I would have thought extended listening periods would be required to hear differences in tubes for the BHSE. In other words at home in a quiet environment.


----------



## astrostar59

aldavey said:


> Oh you don't actually own the BHSE. May I respectfully ask on what you are basing your opinion of NOS tubes in the BHSE? I would have thought extended listening periods would be required to hear differences in tubes for the BHSE. In other words at home in a quiet environment.


 

 Indeed, I had 3 separate day sessions with the BHSE at a buddies house on his Esoteric K-01 and Stax 009s. The first session was with Mullard re-issues. Then some time later another day session comparing PS Vanes to re-issue Mullards, then the last session some time later with NOS Mullard XF-1s I think, or XF-3s. Clearly to me the NOS Mullards sounded much better than the PS-Vanes, and a lot bette than the re-issues. They were a bit warmer which heading towards a more neutral sound to me, nicer midrange and more texture and realism. Just more of everything that is good TBH. The re-issues sounded a bit brittle and very cold, more 'hi-fi' sounding. It isn't just about 'warmer' in tubes, it is also about texture and timbre, basically the whole sound changes with different tube types, so not EQ so to speak, more character changes.
  
 I love the BHSE and ordered it twice then cancelled. It was because of my lifestyle rather than the sound. I have the Carbon as for me, it fits in with how my day works (walking the dogs 3 times a day etc) and I like to jump on the music at any time. I couldn't realistically with the BHSE turn it on and off 3 times a days. I do mange to tube roll my DAC (I leave my DAC on 24/7 as small pre-amp tubes) which is more or less a similar effect to tube rolling the BHSE, it allows me to 'tune' the system to what sounds most natural to me. 
  
 Anyway, that is my findings. I understand others will disagree, no problem. I hope some may try tube rolling though, as to me it took a really great amp and became something extra special.
 I actually bought some Holland XF-4s 1960's ready for the amp to arrive but have since sold them. Those tubes are supposed to be very similar to the NOS Mullards and equal in SQ.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## Whitigir

sko0bydoo said:


> Double-up as a room heater    Have fun in your build!




Not sure I found I will build it and when, but I am going to do the tubes carbon or grounded grid .



astrostar59 said:


> Indeed, I had 3 separate day sessions with the BHSE at a buddies house on his Esoteric K-01 and Stax 009s. The first session was with Mullard re-issues. Then some time later another day session comparing PS Vanes to re-issue Mullards, then the last session some time later with NOS Mullard XF-1s I think, or XF-3s. Clearly to me the NOS Mullards sounded much better than the PS-Vanes, and a lot bette than the re-issues. They were a bit warmer which heading towards a more neutral sound to me, nicer midrange and more texture and realism. Just more of everything that is good TBH. The re-issues sounded a bit brittle and very cold, more 'hi-fi' sounding. It isn't just about 'warmer' in tubes, it is also about texture and timbre, basically the whole sound changes with different tube types, so not EQ so to speak, more character changes.
> 
> I love the BHSE and ordered it twice then cancelled. It was because of my lifestyle rather than the sound. I have the Carbon as for me, it fits in with how my day works (walking the dogs 3 times a day etc) and I like to jump on the music at any time. I couldn't realistically with the BHSE turn it on and off 3 times a days. I do mange to tube roll my DAC (I leave my DAC on 24/7 as small pre-amp tubes) which is more or less a similar effect to tube rolling the BHSE, it allows me to 'tune' the system to what sounds most natural to me.
> 
> ...




Are you saying turning it on/off will hurt the amp or the headphones ?why can't you do on/off with BHSE ?


----------



## hpeter

sko0bydoo said:


> No mercury/purle-glowing for el34. However, you can have a purple-glowing rectifiers. Just replace the power supply ss diodes with mercury rectifiers  If wanting a tube galore, do a full-tube PS voltage regulation


 Xe is nice purple; Hg is blue 
ck1006 Ar mix

Had anybody here tried JJ ? Personally i´m not seeing problems with 2a3, they bias same as Sovteks. Kinda affordable options (compared to EML, 600€ /pair...)


----------



## aldavey

Thanks for that clarification of the basis of your comparison over what appears from your answer several listenings with days between. I maybe tin ears but days between comparisons! I wish I had your memory!


----------



## David1961

astrostar59 said:


> aldavey said:
> 
> 
> > Oh you don't actually own the BHSE. May I respectfully ask on what you are basing your opinion of NOS tubes in the BHSE? I would have thought extended listening periods would be required to hear differences in tubes for the BHSE. In other words at home in a quiet environment.
> ...




They were/are NOS Mullard xf4's that I got from WatfordValves which apparently are still available there. I also no longer have the K-01 but now use a Schiit Yggy, and that DAC is without doubt the best money I've spent on audio gear.
Everything Julian has said about the NOS Mullard's I use I agree with, although he must've forgot I have xf4's.
Now I still have that quad of Mullard re-issues and Psvane EL34PH's, but won't be using them again unless I decide to get a pair of SR-007's.


----------



## aldavey

Thanks for your insight into tube rolling the BHSE. I really like the idea of the BHSE, especially when taking aesthetics into account which is really important to me. However, I do not want to get into tube rolling so maybe a Carbon is the right way for me to go. Who makes the best Carbon from a build quality point of view and can anyone share a comparison between the Carbon and BHSE? Apologies if this has already been covered previously.


----------



## deuter

aldavey said:


> Thanks for your insight into tube rolling the BHSE. I really like the idea of the BHSE, especially when taking aesthetics into account which is really important to me. However, I do not want to get into tube rolling so maybe a Carbon is the right way for me to go. Who makes the best Carbon form a build quality point of view and can anyone share a comparison between the Carbon and BHSE? Apologies if this has already been covered previously.




One cost half the price of the comparison.
Go with Carbon, it's more value for money. Bank for buck think.
Get from Mjonnir Audio ( Probably didn't spell that right).


----------



## Quixote79

deuter said:


> One cost half the price of the comparison.
> Go with Carbon, it's more value for money. Bank for buck think.
> Get from Mjonnir Audio ( Probably didn't spell that right).


 
 Totally a greed here! monnir audio has god products for sure. astrostar also recomend this - could not a greed more.


----------



## Razornova

quixote79 said:


> Totally a greed here! monnir audio has god products for sure. astrostar also recomend this - could not a greed more.




Kind of surprised their most affordable electrostatic amp is a tube


----------



## Whitigir

Stax 009 and Carbon with it crazy bass, superior speed and soundstage can be pretty magical with this V-Pop 

[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/U3ucpVlaeK8[/VIDEO]


----------



## astrostar59

aldavey said:


> Thanks for your insight into tube rolling the BHSE. I really like the idea of the BHSE, especially when taking aesthetics into account which is really important to me. However, I do not want to get into tube rolling so maybe a Carbon is the right way for me to go. Who makes the best Carbon from a build quality point of view and can anyone share a comparison between the Carbon and BHSE? Apologies if this has already been covered previously.


 

 Do some digging on this thread. Also the Carbon and 009 thread and at the 'other' place.
  
 Also ask Purk and Mulveling who have / had both. My opinion is they are close but different. The BHSE is a chameleon to an extent with tube choice. As stock it can be a bit bright on the 009s, but fine on the 007s.
  
 The Carbon 'may' have faster bass and soundstage width. It is difficult for me to say exactly as I am relying on my memory of the BHSE and 009s in that demo about 11 months back. Also there are a few slightly different builds of the Carbon, some with the 2 x 15V LV supply boards, others that take that off the main PS board. And possibly the volume pot type may add to a (slightly) different sound. The PS on the Carbon is a later design than the BHSE so 'may' be better. You will need to ask JimL or Kevin G for details on that.
  
 If you get a decent builder he can advice you.
  
 Don't forget, we are talking summit-fi in headphone land here, and you need a clean source (good smooth sounding DAC) or fatigue may entail. IMO it is not a good idea sticking the 009s and Carbon or BHSE on the end of a basic Laptop and cheapish DAC, it won't end well. You get so much speed and transparency with this system you might not like what you here (in your DAC and front end). The same applies to 20K+ speakers, with transparency there is a price, but get it right and it is heaven.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## Rossliew

whitigir said:


> Stax 009 and Carbon with it crazy bass, superior speed and soundstage can be pretty magical with this V-Pop


 

 interesting clip...very mystical and sounds pretty infectious too!


----------



## aldavey

astrostar59 said:


> Do some digging on this thread. Also the Carbon and 009 thread and at the 'other' place.
> 
> Also ask Purk and Mulveling who have / had both. My opinion is they are close but different. The BHSE is a chameleon to an extent with tube choice. As stock it can be a bit bright on the 009s, but fine on the 007s.
> 
> ...


 
 Many thanks for these insights. I have no problem with source components, LPS-1, Mr, The Dave, it's just the amp that I have to consider and I will ask those who have had the opportunity of owning both.


----------



## Whitigir

Every parts will contribute into your final products, including volume pots and transformers too if u care enough lol. You can always cheap out on some to save money though. Carbon has new designs and it use el34 tubes as well ^_^


----------



## aldavey

Carbon with tubes?? Missed that, please clarify, thanks.


----------



## Whitigir

Yes, the Kgsshv Carbon with tubes, and Kelvin named it the "grounded Grid". One builder in Taiwan built this. Not sure about it sound, but not many were built yet. It is on sale in the forum too at an affordable price. I would grab it if I were you ^_^

This is Joe property and not mine


----------



## JimL11

aldavey said:


> Carbon with tubes?? Missed that, please clarify, thanks.


 

 So, the KGSShv Carbon uses SiC FETs in a grounded gate configuration at the outputs, which is the most linear way of doing it.  If you substitute a triode connected tube for the FET, you get a grounded grid configuration.  As far as I am aware, the front end and intermediate stages are the same, i.e. solid state diff amp configuration.


----------



## kevin gilmore

correct, but there is also the BHSE circuit with all the unavailable fets replaced with current production bipolar.


----------



## dubharmonic

Anyone know if the WEE Dynamic to Electrostatic Headphone Converter from Woo Audio, powered by a McIntosh amp be an upgrade over a Stax SRM-353X?


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

dubharmonic said:


> Anyone know if the WEE Dynamic to Electrostatic Headphone Converter from Woo Audio, powered by a McIntosh amp be an upgrade over a Stax SRM-353X?


 
 I have the WEE on a Bryston 2BLP, which is a big improvement over the 252S (cant speak for the 353 tho). I will say if the Macintosh is remotley as good as the Bryston is, and has no noise, I would say so.


----------



## Pokemonn

darn (again lol) i found i have been wasteing many time for cheap bad sounding a USB DAC.
 today i found cheap Marantz CD player sound much much better than my cheap old USB DAC(discontinued). darn
 also i waste Suzuki-san(Chief Engineer of Stax)'s precious times by me asking him some my nonsense questions about it....darn
  
 FYI Mac + some cheap old USB DAC combo can waste your time and can sound badder than some cheap traditional CD Players. Stax HPs can hear its differences easily....so please be aware.
  
 hope this someones helps.


----------



## astrostar59

pokemonn said:


> darn (again lol) i found i have been wasteing many time for cheap bad sounding a USB DAC.
> today i found cheap Marantz CD player sound much much better than my cheap USB DAC. darn
> also i waste Suzuki-san(Chief Engineer of Stax)'s precious times by me asking him some my nonsense questions about it....darn
> 
> ...


 

 This does not really apply in all cases. But generally to compete with a half decent CDP you need an well optimised PC with good PS and decent player software, and a good USB board in the DAC. It has got better of late, but there are still issues with many USB boards IMO, even in 2K+ DACs.
  
 I dropped out of the USB chain for this reason TBH. Some fixers, convertors or de-crappiifiers help, but not IMO totally get rid of the USB 'issue'. It is the price and hassle factor we pay for having access to our libraries in an instant or via Tidal.
  
 But with some work, you can get better SQ than most CDPs, remember a CDP is basically reading the same data at live speeds, so not totally perfect. And of course most CDPs use SPDIF not USB. I am past my CDP SQ now, definitely, no question.


----------



## Pokemonn

astrostar59 said:


> pokemonn said:
> 
> 
> > darn (again lol) i found i have been wasteing many time for cheap bad sounding a USB DAC.
> ...


 

 Thank you for your advices astrostar.
 yes my cheap used USB DAC was originally 2K+ MSRP DAC, cheap marantz/denon CDP sound much better than it.
 I found a cheap marantz/denon CDP can be solution for the price. Current some marantz/denon CDP have USB A input on front panel. you can use it for iOS devices(less RF noise than big computers) for streaming play backs. so it can be best of both world(CD and internet) for the price tho. i fonund i prefer denon over marantz. marantz sound bit too bright for 009.


----------



## Tinkerer

Listening to an old Lambda Spirit that came in the mail today. I'm surprised how good it sounds out of the Carbon. The bass doesn't have quite the oomph of my 007 Mk I, but reaches down pretty deep. Little bit of elevation of the upper midrange/lower treble but nothing like the etch you see in some other lambda models.
  
 All in all, I gotta say pretty darn great. Sometimes you forget that the right entry level stuff is still 90% as good as the flagships.


----------



## Tinkerer

On the opposite end, tried the 007 MK I through the little SRM-Xh and it still retains a lot of its character. Keeps the superior resolution, bass, and easy listening barely warm signature. As usual the Carbon just makes everything MORE. I'm looking forward to building a KG Golden reference PSU for the SRM-Xh out of some spare parts I have from my Circlotron build and see if that makes a major difference on the little amp. Actually, out of all the brand Stax amps, I've owned, this is one of the most neutral. It just doesn't have quite the same capabilities as say a T1 or a 717. Similar sound though. Doesn't sound like a 727 in the least and the 10S/12S are just a little darker and less resolved.
  
 Don't know how it compares to the 252S. I would imagine they had to rework the circuit a bit for current production parts. But on the surface it looks like a general improvement across the board. Bigger pansonic caps, pots to adjust balance and offset (hardwired in Xh), RCA passthrough. Otherwise looks mostly the same.


----------



## JimL11

tinkerer said:


> On the opposite end, tried the 007 MK I through the little SRM-Xh and it still retains a lot of its character. Keeps the superior resolution, bass, and easy listening barely warm signature. As usual the Carbon just makes everything MORE. I'm looking forward to building a KG Golden reference PSU for the SRM-Xh out of some spare parts I have from my Circlotron build and see if that makes a major difference on the little amp. Actually, out of all the brand Stax amps, I've owned, this is one of the most neutral. It just doesn't have quite the same capabilities as say a T1 or a 717. Similar sound though. Doesn't sound like a 727 in the least and the 10S/12S are just a little darker and less resolved.
> 
> Don't know how it compares to the 252S. I would imagine they had to rework the circuit a bit for current production parts. But on the surface it looks like a general improvement across the board. Bigger pansonic caps, pots to adjust balance and offset (hardwired in Xh), RCA passthrough. Otherwise looks mostly the same.


 

 From what others have reported, a better power supply will improve things to some extent.  However, you are going to have two basic limitations on sound quality.  First, the DC-DC converter used to change a low voltage 12V supply to the high voltage needed by the amp output will produce some noise, limiting your ultimate signal to noise ratio regardless of how quiet the Golden Ref PS is.  Second, the low standing current in the output stage, due to the limited heat sinking available in such a small amp, will limit the current drive available.  Depending on how loudly you listen this may or may not become an issue.  These two will limit the ultimate dynamic range available regardless of how overbuilt your Golden ref PS is.


----------



## Tinkerer

I know. It's just I'd either build a 12V PSU for this with my spares, or a 20V to test those new balanced/unbalanced boards with diamond buffers. I picked the one that was slightly less silly overkill.


----------



## joehpj

whitigir said:


> Yes, the Kgsshv Carbon with tubes, and Kelvin named it the "grounded Grid". One builder in Taiwan built this. Not sure about it sound, but not many were built yet. It is on sale in the forum too at an affordable price. I would grab it if I were you ^_^
> 
> This is Joe property and not mine


 
 It's a project I ran with my friends. PM me if interested.  Google "grounded grid" for more details.


----------



## astrostar59

>


----------



## Rossliew

Anyone know where i can get Stax headphones in Hong Kong?


----------



## Jones Bob

rossliew said:


> Anyone know where i can get Stax headphones in Hong Kong?




Go to Stax's home website and select "Overseas Distributor" and look for for HK.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks, will do just that


----------



## milosz

Has anyone seen a DIY T-2 for sale / sold?  I'm curious what price it would bring.


----------



## Mars Bar

milosz said:


> Has anyone seen a DIY T-2 for sale / sold?  I'm curious what price it would bring.




I'll take a stab ~$12,000USD.
Variables are obvious.


----------



## astrostar59

> milosz said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone seen a DIY T-2 for sale / sold?  I'm curious what price it would bring.


 
 Sorry, miss read this, I'll start again.
  
 Well finding a good T2 pre-built  DIY is going to be a challenge, as:
  
 1. Not many built
 2. If it is a good build, I doubt it would be for sale (general terms) but is possible I guess.
 3. It is very difficult to build, and to not know the history or the builder / trust the builder and or seller 100% you could be walking into a nightmare
 4. It ain't going to be cheap, maybe 8K upwards easily.
  
 Sorry, don't want to sound negative. If I was wanting a DIY T2 I would spend time finding a builder who has built other KG amps first, then ask if they would be prepared to built one. i.e. buy it from new. Or buy one already built by a builder well respected and known for great work over at the other place. Building a T2 is not a light undertaking.


----------



## paradoxper

He wasn't inquiring about the SRM-T2.


----------



## aldavey

paradoxper said:


> He wasn't inquiring about the SRM-T2.


 
 Exactly, I think he was asking for a build?


----------



## mulveling

milosz said:


> Has anyone seen a DIY T-2 for sale / sold?  I'm curious what price it would bring.


 
 Parts cost was in the neighborhood of $6K, and a decent build listed used would start at $8K - 9K. But they are pretty rare, and builds vary. A custom build at the quality level of a BHSE would cost much, much more than 10K.


----------



## Sound Trooper

Guys.. need your opinions before i pull the trigger. 

Any thoughts about the SR-007 mkii + 353x combo?


----------



## astrostar59

sound infinity said:


> Guys.. need your opinions before i pull the trigger.
> 
> Any thoughts about the SR-007 mkii + 353x combo?


 

 If you mean the new 007 MK2 I have that version and it is great, better IMO than the troubled (dull, boomy) 007 MK2 pre 2015).
  
 I haven't heard the current 353 but would have to say it would follow the other Stax amps and prove to be under powered having experienced that in the 007T and my own 717. BTW the 717 is a nice amp, possibly better than any current Stax amp but still under powered for the hungry 007. 
  
 You will get a system going, but IMO it will not be end game, and won't be hearing what the 007 can actually do. 
  
 I would get the 007 but source a KGSShv or KGST or even a Carbon if you can find one for your budget. Then IMO you will hear what the 007 is capable of.
  
 Getting the 007 is a good move, it is close in SQ to the 009 IMO (different character) then you have a gap down to the rest of the range.
  
 Ask around to get more opinions but don't rush into buying till you hear / are sure what to do. And don't forget to consider used (if you haven't already).


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> The T2 is a ******* myth. So, uh, exhausted with this process. I am not quite sure how Justin puts up with these people.
> 
> 
> 
> No pain, no gain, right. Ugh.


 
 Nice colour indeed. Like it a lot. Good luck with the last stage Cory!


----------



## paradoxper

astrostar59 said:


> Nice colour indeed. Like it a lot. Good luck with the last stage Cory!


 
 We'll see. As none of you caught onto, they engraved the PS upside down. So, yes, it has gone back for an unprecedented third time...


----------



## JimL11

So, it sounds like it's not going to be ready for the Albuquerque meet, that is, assuming you still can make it.


----------



## paradoxper

jiml11 said:


> So, it sounds like it's not going to be ready for the Albuquerque meet, that is, assuming you still can make it.


 
 No. Someday. Just maybe. Sigh.


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice colour indeed. Like it a lot. Good luck with the last stage Cory!
> ...


 

 Jeeze, sypathy for that. But kudos for the courage for going for the T2 as well, and I am convinced it will be worth it (and the wait). You know, everything comes to he who waits...
  
 Loving my headinclouds Carbon. But if the cash was there, I am sure I would have a tubed KG amp as well for the different take of it.


----------



## Sound Trooper

astrostar59 said:


> If you mean the new 007 MK2 I have that version and it is great, better IMO than the troubled (dull, boomy) 007 MK2 pre 2015).
> 
> I haven't heard the current 353 but would have to say it would follow the other Stax amps and prove to be under powered having experienced that in the 007T and my own 717. BTW the 717 is a nice amp, possibly better than any current Stax amp but still under powered for the hungry 007.
> 
> ...




Hi Astro,

I'm currently holiday-ing in Japan and will be taking an opportunity to lug back a set of SR-007A and SRM-353X. As I'll be getting the 007s new, I'm pretty sure that's the new version. I have also read that the SRM-353 is one of the better stax amps? 

Thanks.


----------



## astrostar59

sound infinity said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > If you mean the new 007 MK2 I have that version and it is great, better IMO than the troubled (dull, boomy) 007 MK2 pre 2015).
> ...


 

 Watch the mains voltage as the new amps apparently now don't have extra windings, so 100V is fixed. The 353 is last man standing in a mixed bag IMO, doesn't mean it is good....


----------



## Sound Trooper

astrostar59 said:


> Watch the mains voltage as the new amps apparently now don't have extra windings, so 100V is fixed. The 353 is last man standing in a mixed bag IMO, doesn't mean it is good....




Thanks again Astro. Will be getting a step-down transformer with my purchase.


----------



## Pokemonn

sound infinity said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > Watch the mains voltage as the new amps apparently now don't have extra windings, so 100V is fixed. The 353 is last man standing in a mixed bag IMO, doesn't mean it is good....
> ...


 
 i personally recommend to audition stax tube amps too. they sound soft/gentle/less fatigue compare to solid states amps such as 353. maybe depend on your preferences?


----------



## lavendermist

sound infinity said:


> Guys.. need your opinions before i pull the trigger.
> 
> 
> 
> Any thoughts about the SR-007 mkii + 353x combo?



 


I have the latest SR-007 (SN.: SZ3 -22XX) headphone as well as a 353x and a 717 amp.


Regarding the sound it all depends (all classical and chamber music):


Pros 353X: very sweet sound at very low listening levels (probably because of being a 3 stage amp)

Pros 717: very cohesive sound with stable bass foundation, but less sweet highs (4 stages), which can be tuned with a bit brighter cable.


With the right tuning with the right cables (all balanced) and dac both can sound very similar. I use darker cables for the 353x and a bit brighter cables for the 717. I just use industrial grade balanced cables - no fancy stuff.

I would wait for the new stax amp that hopefully will appear soon. I hope that it will not sound too dry.

Having heard 2 different kgsshv builds I have to say that these amps have unbelievable airness and bass, but they can be very very unforgiving to less well mastered material - which most of the music is.

You will have to experiment a little bit with cabling and especially dacs with any amp to find your own sound signature. Just use what is available in your area and forget all the exotic stuff, that is, very often, engineering garbage.

Summary: 353x with 007 sounds good at very low listening levels, especially with acoustic music, but otherwise look elsewhere e.g. a used 717, a 727 and apply Spritzers feedback mod or wait for the new Stax amp. 

If you like the kgsshv sound signature, go for a decent build, like Spritzers (Mjölnir) - who knows what he is doing.

Try it out first and do not believe anyone, because we all have different ears and tastes!

Regards and happy journey!


----------



## Sound Trooper

pokemonn said:


> i personally recommend to audition stax tube amps too. they sound soft/gentle/less fatigue compare to solid states amps such as 353. maybe depend on your preferences?




Hi Pokemon, I've tried the SRM-007t + SR-009 combo and loved it. But alas I couldn't convince myself to stretch to that price point, hence the decision to settle for the SR-007A + SRM-323x combo. 

Before deciding on the SRM-323x I was looking at the SRM-006t but it seems like reviews are not as positive. Have you tried the SRM-006t?


----------



## Sound Trooper

lavendermist said:


> sound infinity said:
> 
> 
> > Guys.. need your opinions before i pull the trigger.
> ...




Hi lavendermist,

Thanks for your reply! I'll planning to run the SR-007A + SRM-323x combo with the Hugo2 which I have pre-ordered. 

I'll KIV the new Stax amp till my next trip to Japan (likely in 2018!).


----------



## Pokemonn

sound infinity said:


> pokemonn said:
> 
> 
> > i personally recommend to audition stax tube amps too. they sound soft/gentle/less fatigue compare to solid states amps such as 353. maybe depend on your preferences?
> ...


 

 yes i used to own 006tS and now i own 006tA(older version of 006tS) IMO 006t series tend to sound tad too soft compare to 007t or SS amps. some piano notes attacks sound less accurate and tad too soft for example. but good for long BGM style listening sessions. so auditioning is must. used stax amps is good option for the price.


----------



## astrostar59

lavendermist said:


> If you like the kgsshv sound signature, go for a decent build, like Spritzers (Mjölnir) - who knows what he is doing.
> 
> Try it out first and do not believe anyone, because we all have different ears and tastes!
> 
> Regards and happy journey!


 
 Good advice. I would add the Stax amps (007T and 717 and probably the same for the 323) do start to fall apart when played loud, or at least to a decent level on dynamic music. They get harsh and the treble is not so smooth. Also the soundstage is small, layering is poor and on complex music it gets flat and confusing. I disagree re treble on the KGSShv. I have owned 2 and they both have far superior and smoother treble presentation, felt much more relaxed and fluid (ticking over) whereas my Stax amps sounded strained and forward, too shouty. The issues are exasperated as the 007 is power hungry. However, I did use my 717 with the 009s for a short period and even though they had more volume and drive with that HP the treble coldness and harshness was more apparent, so probably no better IMO.
  
 IMO I would not pay for a new Stax amp when you can get a DIY KGSShv, KGST for more or less the same used, or even built new depending on the builder.
  
 The KG amps have better power supplies, more current and better output stages. Stax has effectively more or less stood still on amplifier developments for way too long. There is rumoured a new amp coming out but no idea yet what that will look or sound like, or how much it will cost. 
  
 There is the Woo GES, a tubed amp that has decent review and reports back from owners. It is priced around the same as the 727 I believe. The Woo WES is not so well regarded generally. Then there is the Cavalli LL2, though I haven't heard that. Some on here own that amp if you want to PM them.


----------



## Sound Trooper

pokemonn said:


> yes i used to own 006tS and now i own 006tA(older version of 006tS) IMO 006t series tend to sound tad too soft compare to 007t or SS amps. some piano notes attacks sound less accurate and tad too soft for example. but good for long BGM style listening sessions. so auditioning is must. used stax amps is good option for the price.




Hi Pokemonn,

Thanks! Will definitely try both SRM-323X and SRM-006ts.


----------



## Tinkerer

Made a polarity inverter adapter to use a regulated universal wall wart with my SRM-Xh. You can actually hear the difference. I didn't figure you would be able to. Could be that it's drawing 12.1VDC all the time instead of 12'ish depending on load with the original unregulated one from the 90's. Or maybe the caps are just dry in the old one. I didn't crack it open to look.

Surprisingly, the old panasonic caps in the amp itself are still good with less than .1% voltage loss.

I doubt a GRLV will be much improvement over this, but hey, we'll find out when I put that PSU together in a couple weeks when all the case parts come in.


----------



## bearwarrior

Does anyone know how the iFi Pro Energizer sound? Will that be a good pair with Stax 007/009 when using a great amp with sufficient power?


----------



## HiFiIsExpensive

Does anyone know where I can purchase a Pawel HP1 for SR007 mk1? Thanks!


----------



## HiFiIsExpensive

bearwarrior said:


> Does anyone know how the iFi Pro Energizer sound? Will that be a good pair with Stax 007/009 when using a great amp with sufficient power?


 

 What do you listen it with? 007 or 009?


----------



## HiFiIsExpensive

sound infinity said:


> Guys.. need your opinions before i pull the trigger.
> 
> Any thoughts about the SR-007 mkii + 353x combo?


 

 Well that was a top of the line headphone and you are adding a mid-low range energizer on it. Not to say it wont sound good but step up the energizer.


----------



## bearwarrior

hifiisexpensive said:


> Well that was a top of the line headphone and you are adding a mid-low range energizer on it. Not to say it wont sound good but step up the energizer.




Yeah. You are right. I just watched a few YouTube videos talking about iFi iCan pro and energizer, thinking about the synergy with top line of Stax. I did not expect it could reach the performance of kghhsv or BHSE. Hopefully, it is much better than Woo WEE. Btw, they used 009 with iFi energizer in the video.


----------



## JimL11

paradoxper said:


> No. Someday. Just maybe. Sigh.


 

 You're still welcome to come to the Albuquerque meet, if you don't mind slumming.


----------



## paradoxper

jiml11 said:


> You're still welcome to come to the Albuquerque meet, if you don't mind slumming.


 
 I was excited to bring the T2 down there, so all this transgression has not only stressed me out but also put me into an entirely irritable space.
 I wouldn't mind slumming it, but I'm not sure if I'll bother making the trek empty handed.


----------



## paul2qute

Any news on stax bringing out better amps?heard ages ago they were gonna build a top of the range one but not heard anything since


----------



## Pokemonn

i just read Stax's Facebook page(written in japanese) seems stax will release new product info(maybe new flagship amp) at upcoming Tokyo headphone festival(end of april).


----------



## bmichels

pokemonn said:


> i just read Stax's Facebook page(written in japanese) seems stax will release new product info(maybe new flagship amp) at upcoming Tokyo headphone festival(end of april).


 
  
 May be the new SRM 212 which was showed at CES 2016 and then... disapeared ??


----------



## paul2qute

pokemonn said:


> i just read Stax's Facebook page(written in japanese) seems stax will release new product info(maybe new flagship amp) at upcoming Tokyo headphone festival(end of april).


That's brilliant mate thanks for that


----------



## Pokemonn

bmichels said:


> pokemonn said:
> 
> 
> > i just read Stax's Facebook page(written in japanese) seems stax will release new product info(maybe new flagship amp) at upcoming Tokyo headphone festival(end of april).
> ...


 

 i have heard some rumor that some Stax "prototype" amps did disappear after all in the past. its normal R&D phenomenon tho?


----------



## Sonic Defender

whitigir said:


> Is there any purple glowing el34 ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Did you move past your Utopia phase already or did you keep it? Hard to not understand wanting to explore Stax.


----------



## paul2qute

I've had stax most of my life love them,can be a little bright with some recordings but think I'll always keep my utopias love them


----------



## Whitigir

All that talk about Stax new flagship Amp. Here is mine !


----------



## paul2qute

whitigir said:


> All that talk about Stax new flagship Amp. Here is mine !


Looks nice that mate, is that a blue Hawaii self build?


----------



## Whitigir

Nope, the chassis is engraved "grounded grid"  it is Kgsshv Carbon with tubes, and Kevin called it grounded grid


----------



## organ_donor

Congratulation with your build! I am curious with the SQ though. How is that?


----------



## Rossliew

organ_donor said:


> Congratulation with your build! I am curious with the SQ though. How is that?




Yes impressions on the sound please


----------



## astrostar59

whitigir said:


> All that talk about Stax new flagship Amp. Here is mine !


 
 Did you build it? Great workmanship there. Nice looking finish and appearance!
  
 Question as we ALL want to know. How's it sound compared to the 'standard' Carbon inc LV board option and GR supplies (if you have access to that amp).
  
 And I wonder how it compares to Justin's BHSE. As I understand it, your amp uses the same PS as the Carbon i.e. more modern PS than the BHSE? Are the tubes the only stage, or is there other Fetts involved as the BHSE? Sorry, I know nothing about this amp until you takes about it recently.
  
 I guess the KGBH came out before the BHSE the later was Justin's tweak on that design. Then there is a later KGBH that uses available in production parts, and now the Grounded Grid (your amp), all of which use 4 x EL34s on the final stage.
  
 I am loving my 'headinclouds' build Carbon. It sounds great on both the 009s or 007s. On the 009s is has amazing soundstage width and speed, transparency and real bass power. On the 007 more laid back but defiantly wakes up those phones Ha Ha.
  
 Is there no limit to Kevin's genius?


----------



## Whitigir

Chassis was in a group project from Joe in Taiwan, and yes, the chassis is absolutely stunning. GG replaced The Sic Fet from the Carbon into EL34 with different sic driver, everything else is pretty much Carbon. As far as Carbon go, most components are readily available, hence I built it fast. I do recommend buying Joe chassis and kit set as it comes with transformers connectors and sockets as well . The transformers are actually pretty dead quiet.

I run mine 18mA, and it is awesome. I will need a bigger table to fit both Carbon and GG on the top lol...now I don't know where to slot It in.

Kevin is legendary !!

Powersupply is from Carbon build, this one is running 420V


----------



## paul2qute

whitigir said:


> Chassis was in a group project from Joe in Taiwan, and yes, the chassis is absolutely stunning. GG replaced The Sic Fet from the Carbon into EL34 with different sic driver, everything else is pretty much Carbon. As far as Carbon go, most components are readily available, hence I built it fast. I do recommend buying Joe chassis and kit set as it comes with transformers connectors and sockets as well . The transformers are actually pretty dead quiet.
> 
> I run mine 18mA, and it is awesome. I will need a bigger table to fit both Carbon and GG on the top lol...now I don't know where to slot It in.
> 
> ...


Looks gorgeous mate and well done building it yourself, I wouldn't have a clue


----------



## Pokemonn

Nice!!! Whitigir! Does it sound like "T2 moment"?
 BTW Thank you Whitgir for your PM which let me know about DIY T2 boards group buy! I have already joined it!


----------



## Whitigir

pokemonn said:


> Nice!!! Whitigir! Does it sound "T2 moment"?
> BTW Thank you Whitgir for PM which let me know about DIY T2 boards group buy! I have already joined it!




LOL! I have not a clue of what T2 sound like . It definitely look very close to T2 in Two pieces LoL


----------



## paul2qute

Kevin Gilmore is a genius and spritzer is an absolute star, I've emailed him loads of times and has given such great advice, he always goes out of his way to reply, highly intelligent


----------



## Whitigir

For anyone who wonder the sound signature of this Grounded grid:

Soundstage: still ethereal like carbon , but with smoother and more fluidly mid together with sweet tonal body and energy delivery, the soundstage do appear to be deeper while the Carbon is more like all width and more fixated on positioning. The soundstage on GG is actually can be said to be flowing with the panning affects and so on you can actually let your mind be floated to the continuity and flow of the effects and feel like the music is streaming and flowing from far left to far right and approach from front and flowing toward into the back and so on. The SS Carbon actually have it too, but not as satisfying or pronounced. GG>Carbon

Bass: upper spectrum of the Sub bass section is actually very blooming, but in trade it doesn't dive as deep as the Carbon. Big body, warmth but not slow or loose, just blooming. Mid bass is powerful with beautiful energy variations, every body and energy of each lines are totally separated and carry it own density, this effects carry on all the way through to the mid high spectrum. Due to this, the bass seems more musical but less satisfying than carbon while carbon can be said to have both musicality and satisfaction, though if you are a tubes fan, you may think carbon bass is not realistic enough. I do think GG bass is better for ballads, rock, metal, instrumentals, country, pop....but not modern pop and or hip-hop or EDM. Carbon is more universal to all genres here. Carbon >> GG

Mid: very detailed but with meaty tonal body and timbres together with the fat energy and fluidity, it appears very smooth, very very sweet, warmth, totally tubes-like sound. The details of the mid spectrum is very magical, the upper minds are so smooth and full of energy that is why it is so detailed, and not being harsh at all, and because it carries into the mid high spectrum, the lower treble are so awesome, thick, vivid. Carbon mid is faster so it makes the soundstage to also be more width than depth, more fixated positioning than flowing like GG. GG>>Carbon

Treble: the lower and mid spectrum is smooth, thick and dense. It is vivid and organic. The upper extensions is not as tip top as the SS Carbon but because it thick and dense body stops before the tip-top of the extensions, the treble doesn't appear to be harsh or sibilant even when I turn up the current. The SS Carbon when running 17.5 mA, I can observe that it becomes too fast and lose the warmth and organic feeling, where as the GG even with 18 mA the bloom, the warmth, the smooth and detailed vivid trebles are still there, which makes me want to turn up the current even further. However, judging by the thick density and energetic of the treble body, I feel like 18mA is ok. I will need to do some tubes rolling to get what I want. Personal preferences  (GG=Carbon, I guess)

Ultimately, are you a fan of SS or tubes ?

ATM, I am using re-issues Mullar el34: so soundstage is addictive, mid to high spectrums are thick and vividly smooth with details and magical tube tonal body. What I want more would be a bit more extensions to the trebles and deeper bass......

What poison am I getting into ? Tubes rolling can cost me a fortune. Anyone has expertise in tubes and it sound signature here ?

**updated**: I just cranked her up to 20mA. She definitely dive deeper with finer trebles lines but still doesn't get that Sub bass and bass lines as deep and as defined as Carbon. She distorts more at some complex passages, but not really bad. I will need to swap her tubes into 6Ca7 and see if it helps anything. I will set her in stones at this current setting, and just tube rolling


----------



## rubenpp

Thanks for sharing ..now to look for someone who can build one for me


----------



## Whitigir

rubenpp said:


> Thanks for sharing ..now to look for someone who can build one for me




Contact Joe in Taiwan by this email joehpj@gmail.com

 enjoy and have fun !


----------



## astrostar59

whitigir said:


> For anyone who wonder the sound signature of this Grounded grid:


 
 Nice review, great to read that. Was it on the 009s or 007s. If 007s, which one?
  
 Yes, tube rolling,,,, can get expensive. Ask Purk, Mulveling or The Attorney about tubes, as they have done extensive rolling four the BHSE.


----------



## rubenpp

Many thanks Whitigir !


----------



## Whitigir

astrostar59 said:


> Nice review, great to read that. Was it on the 009s or 007s. If 007s, which one?
> 
> Yes, tube rolling,,,, can get expensive. Ask Purk, Mulveling or The Attorney about tubes, as they have done extensive rolling four the BHSE.




009  I don't have 007 lol


----------



## Sonic Defender

astrostar59 said:


> Yes, tube rolling,,,, can get expensive. Ask Purk, Mulveling or The Attorney about tubes, as they have done extensive rolling four the BHSE.


 
 Yes, that is why I got out of it early as I could easily see how addictive tube rolling can be.
  
 Edit: removed part of the comment as I didn't want it to be taken the wrong way


----------



## Shure or bust

Bought a L-700 and KGSS Koss DX amp. Listened to the sr-009/007, Sonoma, L300/500/700, HE-1, and Mr.Speakers prototype. I wasn't impressed with the stax amps being 007tii and 727A. I did enjoy the Blue Hawaii, GES, and WES. Hopefully the KGSS DX out performs the WES and GES config.


----------



## aldavey

Just took delivery of a Carbon from Mjolnir Audio to power my 009's. I was a sceptic about the improvements i would hear over my Stax 007ta. I just finished listening to the first three tracks through the Carbon. What! I've got a new pair of headphones! I am completely blown away that there could be so much difference in performance. The first two elements that hit straight away are the bass and the soundstage, then you realise any element of shouty treble has disappeared. 
 BTW dealing with Birgir was a complete pleasure, the whole transaction, shipping, packaging was so professional. I wish many large companies I've dealt with were as professional and easy to deal with.
 Now back to further listening.


----------



## Shure or bust

aldavey said:


> Just took delivery of a Carbon from Mjolnir Audio to power my 009's. I was a sceptic about the improvements i would hear over my Stax 007ta. I just finished listening to the first three tracks through the Carbon. What! I've got a new pair of headphones! I am completely blown away that there could be so much difference in performance. The first two elements that hit straight away are the bass and the soundstage, then you realise any element of shouty treble has disappeared.
> BTW dealing with Birgir was a complete pleasure, the whole transaction, shipping, packaging was so professional. I wish many large companies I've dealt with were as professional and easy to deal with.
> Now back to further listening.


 
 I heard the 007ta ii and wasn't impressed. The WOO GES sounded better than it.


----------



## aldavey

I'm based in Tokyo so I don't get the opportunity to compare any KG amps here. I went for a Stax amp before getting up to speed on KG designs. It was a mistake and I now have an expensive paperweight as a result. Must get back to listening!


----------



## Shure or bust

http://www.head-fi.org/t/566419/mini-review-headamp-kgss-vs-blue-hawaii-se


----------



## Whitigir

aldavey said:


> Just took delivery of a Carbon from Mjolnir Audio to power my 009's. I was a sceptic about the improvements i would hear over my Stax 007ta. I just finished listening to the first three tracks through the Carbon. What! I've got a new pair of headphones! I am completely blown away that there could be so much difference in performance. The first two elements that hit straight away are the bass and the soundstage, then you realise any element of shouty treble has disappeared.
> BTW dealing with Birgir was a complete pleasure, the whole transaction, shipping, packaging was so professional. I wish many large companies I've dealt with were as professional and easy to deal with.
> Now back to further listening.




Yeah, Birgir is awesome!  just exactly as you mentioned. Because you are buying from folks who loves and have a big heart in this hobby (audio + Stax + DIY) , and that is why you can get the Carbon performances at the affordable price that you bought. If it was made by any big company like Stax or brand companies, expect the price to raise 2x as much. 

I will not believe any new Stax amp can out perform these DIY fruits. It is just not viable for economy reasons, period. Unless it is priced around 10-15k


----------



## aldavey

whitigir said:


> Yeah, Birgir is awesome!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, I'm listening to my Carbon right now, it just gets better! But you're a bad influence  - GG pusher lol


----------



## astrostar59

whitigir said:


> I will not believe any new Stax amp can out perform these DIY fruits. It is just not viable for economy reasons, period. Unless it is priced around 10-15k


 
 I think it is viable under 10K? The BHSE is 6.5K roughly, and similar complexity (maybe more complex). If a company did such an amp (not a KG copy as that is copy protected for commercial I believe) and they then sold direct like Cavalli or Woo Audio or Head-Amp (no dealer mark-up) then why not?
  
 Having said that, I do agree, the KG DIY amps do seem to blast to commercial amps for a six, if we ignore Head-Amp for a moment. Lets see if Stax rise to the challenge. I guess they don't even think about that, but they must be aware of the requirement for an amp at dealer demo's and to sell with those HPs that do the 009 and 007 justice. It is waaaay long overdue IMO.


----------



## zolkis

whitigir said:


> For anyone who wonder the sound signature of this Grounded grid:
> (...)
> Ultimately, are you a fan of SS or tubes ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 For EL34, the Mullard is obviously good.
 I have found this pretty reliable:
http://www.thetubestore.com/EL34-6CA7-KT77-Tube-Reviews
http://www.thetubestore.com/Resources/Product-Reviews/EL34-Review-Chart
 In addition, I've also used Valve Art EL34 for among-the-best mids, harmonics and good bass as well, though SiC transistors still beat it in sub-bass.
 If you come from the Carbon, you might give a shot to the JJ EL32-II. Will have nearly as good sub-bass, and still richer harmonics.
 You can go up to the old rare expensive Siemens EL34 or Philips varieties, bakelit or metal base:
http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo%20EL34/EL34.htm


----------



## Pokemonn

but but but...about 1K+$ KEF LS50s loudspeakers out of 20$ chinese amp outperform any HP systems in term of better imaging....this is the reason why Stax products need to be so cheaper I guess.


----------



## Whitigir

Even for under 10k, it is not viable because large company have to pay much more staff and employees, then customer services such as returns, defect, and replacements....etc...shipping....warranty. You can not compare a large company to builder who sells these amps period. As you can see, headamp and blue-Hawaii is already more expensive than your typical builder already  and they are not/..."large company".

Take example of stax 009 and Utopia from focal. These are expensive headphones, so they have to be spotless, and miraculous finishes. Even scratches or tears will incur the buyers to do an exchange, then they have to honor that. Let's just say it would be an easy job to take back the products, replace the parts, and sell as refurbished or even New with new series numbers, the shipping, the customer services, the time-down, and risk of damaging reputations are always there. This as a result already bump up the pricing on these headphones from MSRP already


----------



## Whitigir

zolkis said:


> For EL34, the Mullard is obviously good.
> I have found this pretty reliable:
> http://www.thetubestore.com/EL34-6CA7-KT77-Tube-Reviews
> http://www.thetubestore.com/Resources/Product-Reviews/EL34-Review-Chart
> ...




Thanks! I am using strictly el34 and 6ca7. I heard people is saying sugang treasures 6ca7 are good, winged C el34 is good, then NOS are better...however NOS are too expensive, and I am afraid if they are gone, I would have to be spending a lot more to buy them again, so I want newer stock of good tubes in productions


----------



## astrostar59

pokemonn said:


> but but but...about 1K+$ KEF LS50s loudspeakers out of 20$ chinese amp outperform any HP systems in term of better imaging....this is the reason why Stax products need to be so cheaper I guess.


 

 Eh?????


----------



## Pokemonn

astrostar59 said:


> pokemonn said:
> 
> 
> > but but but...about 1K+$ KEF LS50s loudspeakers out of 20$ chinese amp outperform any HP systems in term of better imaging....this is the reason why Stax products need to be so cheaper I guess.
> ...


 
 i recommend to read Currawong's this old thread..
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/490583/headphones-are-great-but-will-never-be-speakers


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Speakers have better imaging and bass, but find a speaker with better tonality and transparency than, for example:
  
 Stax SR-007 MK1 > KGSSHV Carbon without volume control > Metrum Adagio (used as preamp/DAC)
  
 The only thing capable of that are the YG Sonja speakers (72k for the 1.2 version), now add speaker amps and a 100k custom made room for them.
  
 Are speakers better? Yes, but you need +200k to equal a 15k Stax setup.
  
 The rest just sounds muffled and lifeless or bright and thin but with great imaging and bass.


----------



## Whitigir

torofiestasol said:


> Are speakers better? Yes, but you need +200k to equal a 15k Stax setup.




This is what I have to ultimately agree, and not to mention that you have to sit and fixed on your position ..LoL! Then build a room for that.


----------



## aldavey

This Carbon is an ANIMAL! I'm happy!


----------



## Whitigir

aldavey said:


> This Carbon is an ANIMAL! I'm happy!




Oh yes, you should be


----------



## Pokemonn

torofiestasol said:


> Speakers have better imaging and bass, but find a speaker with better tonality and transparency than, for example:
> 
> Stax SR-007 MK1 > KGSSHV Carbon without volume control > Metrum Adagio (used as preamp/DAC)
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you very much for your advices.
 I still can't imagine good amps such as Carbon can solve HPs imaging issue.
 but maybe the Smith Realizer can solve the issue? maybe? I still not convincing...


----------



## astrostar59

pokemonn said:


> astrostar59 said:
> 
> 
> > pokemonn said:
> ...


 

 Yes I remember reading that when he posted it in 2010. I didn't agree with him then, and I don't now. Respect to Currawong, he knows his HPs and of course puts lots of time into this forum. I wonder if he still has that same opinion. I will PM him when I have time and ask.
  
 The insert post was by Golden Ears who appears is a not a keen HP user? And if you look at the gear he tries, well a lot is portable yes, but also a lot is low quality TBH. I am in the best I can afford not portable camp, a different arena IMO.
  
 I have a pair of 20K USD Zingali Horn speakers and a Plinius 10K power amplifier fed by the same 35K (list) Audio Note DAC 5 as my KGSShv Carbon and 009s. My speaker system is super near field, the Zingali 12inch horns and 12inch bass units are 5 feet from each ear either side of my desk.
  
*I would characterise the sound of the two as:*
  
*Speaker system:*
 Big sound, dynamics and huge soundstage, very detailed and smooth, no harshness. played at normal to high levels they pressurise the room (bit like a car) and sound like you are in a club or live event very realistically.
 Super deep bass into the floor and beyond kind of sub bass. You can feel it (physical connection - important) and the drama of the music is quite real.
 Negatives are of course, the environment I live in has restrections on the volume mid-day or in the evening when folk at back from work. Also if the other half wants to listen to something else or watch a movie etc.
  
 My overall sound quality rating = *8/10*
  
*Headphone system:*
 Really fast transients and micro detail (plankton). More texture and decay clues, tiny effects or minute background sounds are obvious behind the main stage. Bass is as deep as my speakers, but hasn't the impact or of course the physical connection, so the bass can sound slightly false. This IMO affects all headphones to various degrees. Bass heavier HPs are ok, but then loose depth and detail, the sound to me gets too thick and confused. Possibly as HPs have one driver to handle everything?
 Soundstage is good, but not exceptional, and depth is there in varying degrees depending on the recording. The in-head stage can vary person to person and some find it just doesn't work for them IMO. I am probably in the works quite well camp.
 Treble quality is a task for any HP I can tried, especially as they (generally) get more transparent as you try the better models, which is what we crave, but then it has a cost in some harshness and listening fatigue. I guess it is a bit like sitting nearer to your speakers in effect, any treble edge is going to be an issue. I have managed to tame the 009 by tuning by tubed NOS DAC.
  
 My overall sound quality rating = *8/10*
  
 Now I must add, the rating I have given (same score) is for TOTALLY different strengths in each system.
  
 The speakers have better soundstage, beefier bass and a thicker sound, the HPs have better micro detail and decay, more clues to everything in the recording. Thus because of these highly addictive aspects, I want to keep both systems. I find it a shame a keen HP audiophile would, in the end, ditch the hobby and 'move over' to just speaker systems. If I did that right now, I would miss like crazy the aspects I enjoy about the 009s and my Carbon amp. For example, when I was tuning my DAC with different tubes, I rated the acid test as listening to them on my Stax 009, not the speakers. In a way, I guess speakers can be more forgiving? It may be the tiny and close environment of headphones that throws up any fatigue or treble issues, and highlights vey quickly if the source (usually the DAC) has brightness problems. But get the whole chain to work and WOW, that is all I can say on that really, just really damb good sound to be had.
  
 Anyway, my findings. Hope it was some help.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

The only way to compare speakers to headphones, is to have a complete custom, isolated and acustically treated room made for the exact speakers you have.
 Headphones eliminate room of the equation, so is impossible to compare unless you're dropping 100k on the room, if not...it will be headphones vs speakers & room problems.
  
 That's the main problem, how many people can do an accurate comparison? Very, very few, in fact, why would they bother? Why would you want a Stax setup if you have a perfect room and some YG/Rockport/Magico full range speakers and Accuphase amps...


----------



## mulveling

Of course you can compare/contrast speakers and headphones. Once you have a halfway decent room, the speaker and gear choices dominate the resultant sound. You can also compare a $500 component to a $20,000 one. And the 009 is definitely good enough to be in the conversation with some very expensive speaker setups.


----------



## astrostar59

torofiestasol said:


> The only way to compare speakers to headphones, is to have a complete custom, isolated and acustically treated room made for the exact speakers you have.
> Headphones eliminate room of the equation, so is impossible to compare unless you're dropping 100k on the room, if not...it will be headphones vs speakers & room problems.
> 
> That's the main problem, how many people can do an accurate comparison? Very, very few, in fact, why would they bother? Why would you want a Stax setup if you have a perfect room and some YG/Rockport/Magico full range speakers and Accuphase amps...


 

 Well I have to disagree. Once you have the obvious room corrections done, then that is a normal speaker system in a normal living space, and ready IMO to be pitched against any headphone. Yes you can take speakers further, but realistically how many have the space and money to build a perfect room anyway. So we are talking real world (most common) comparisons here.
  
 And why would I want a Stax setup? Because, as I said, HPs can do *some* things so well, that even speakers can't, even the Magico's.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 26, 2017)

So, I have started tubes rolling.  My second set of tubes are Electro Harmonic 6CA7.  It definitely has more sub-bass and dives deeper.  Tubes rolling can do amazing things on GG.


----------



## jgazal




----------



## Pokemonn (Apr 27, 2017)

wow not T3 but T8000 LOL must be strong...LOL

Vacuum tube input driver...tube preamp and SS amp?

595000 yen (@-@)

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1057193.html (in japanese)


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 27, 2017)

Well that puts it around $5500 usd from Japan import, export plus shipping and so on will be around $6000.  Assuming dealer networks and regional MSRP differences, we maybe looking at $6300- $7300 in the states .  Could it really outperform any of Kevin top tier ? We will need to wait and see

In the mean while...I am loving the grounded grid


----------



## aldavey

Whitigir said:


> Well that puts it around $5500 usd from Japan import, export plus shipping and so on will be around $6000.  Assuming dealer networks and regional MSRP differences, we maybe looking at $6300- $7300 in the states .  Could it really outperform any of Kevin top tier ? We will need to wait and see
> 
> In the mean while...I am loving the grounded grid


Regardless of how it sounds, I REALLY like the look of your GG.


----------



## Ampeezy (Apr 27, 2017)

Just absolutely transparent, with the spritzer mod and interconnect upgrades. Going to enjoy this for some time to come...


----------



## jgazal




----------



## Rodeodave (Apr 27, 2017)

Wth is wrong with the engineers at Stax?! Why would they use polished valve screening cans?!?! For reference see Morgan Jones, Building Valve Amplifiers, second edition, page 33.


----------



## zolkis

Whitigir said:


> So, I have started tubes rolling.  My second set of tubes are Electro Harmonic 6CA7.  It definitely has more sub-bass and dives deeper.  Tubes rolling can do amazing things on GG.



As with all good tube amps. Not that tubes are inherently better, but IMHO it's easier to make good sounding tube amps than good sounding transistor amps.


----------



## deuter

What's a grounded grid ?


----------



## Rodeodave

Tubes generally have an electron-emitting cathode, a grid and an electron-collecting anode. Most often, the electron flow through a tube is controlled by wiggling the electric potential of the grid, while the cathode is kept at a constant potential. In different topologies, the electron flow through the tube is controlled by wiggling the electric potential of the cathode, while keeping the grid potential constant (often at ground potential).


----------



## Ojisan

Rodeodave said:


> Wth is wrong with the engineers at Stax?! Why would they use polished valve screening cans?!?! For reference see Morgan Jones, Building Valve Amplifiers, second edition, page 33.



In the interview with engineering manager (Japanese only), he said they took measures for isolating noise/vibration through valve covers, separate tube section board, and better case foot. He also mentioned its a emitter follower topology. 

Sorry for my ignorance. Does Morgan suggest against valve covers?


----------



## Rodeodave

I'll admit that I overreacted a bit. I just about completely lost it when I saw these awful shiny metal tube covers that you normally only see inside cheap Chinese gear.

In Morgan Jones' opinion, a shiny plain metal shielding can (without black paint inside and out) generally is an abomination that deserves to be crushed because not only does it restrict airflow, but it also reflects radiant heat back to the valve.

Not what I'd want to see inside a 6000$ amp.


----------



## Ampeezy

Rodeodave said:


> I'll admit that I overreacted a bit. I just about completely lost it when I saw these awful shiny metal tube covers that you normally only see inside cheap Chinese gear.
> 
> In Morgan Jones' opinion, a shiny plain metal shielding can (without black paint inside and out) generally is an abomination that deserves to be crushed because not only does it restrict airflow, but it also reflects radiant heat back to the valve.
> 
> Not what I'd want to see inside a 6000$ amp.



Are we sure on that price? Doesn't look like it fits the bill


----------



## Quixote79

Ampeezy said:


> Just absolutely transparent, with the spritzer mod and interconnect upgrades. Going to enjoy this for some time to come...


what is spirtze mod? is them blue one see on top?


----------



## Ampeezy

Quixote79 said:


> what is spirtze mod? is them blue one see on top?



No, the mod that covers the bass ports on the headphones...


----------



## Shure or bust (Apr 28, 2017)

Got the L-700 and KGSS Koss DX


----------



## behwatch

Nice!


----------



## Shure or bust

3d printed brackets for the L-700 are on the way. I'll try Utopia, Elear, and Mrspeakers electrostat pads.


----------



## aldavey

So I know I'm a newbie here but I have owned Stax HPs since 1969! Also Stax ES F81 panel speakers in the 80s, but, but, the 009s driven by Birgir Carbon is beautiful time spent listening to music.
Thanks Mr Mjolnir.


----------



## Whitigir

Ofcourse, Carbon is awesome to have


----------



## walakalulu

Is this the place to discuss the T8000 when it arrives?


----------



## Whitigir

walakalulu said:


> Is this the place to discuss the T8000 when it arrives?


Why not ? Anything Stax related


----------



## edstrelow

Ampeezy said:


> No, the mod that covers the bass ports on the headphones...


 Also that the spring in the SROO7 is pushed upwards. This may do some good.  Plugging the port of my 007A boosted bass to unpleasant levels.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 28, 2017)

Holy Stax!! I kept on rolling tubes, and it keeps on getting better:  NOS Winged-C is now showing deep bass but more controlled and balanced bass with great body, and especially Much better details on the mid to upper mid.  Trebles is with more extensions and definitions as well.

Bass is no longer boring on EDM and modern Pop !! Can't wait to try a Quad Xf2 !! Tubes rolling is expensive but damn....it is addicting ! In a bad way

Gotta share another Vpop Wooo!





Stax corner ATM


----------



## Sound Trooper

Update:

Bought my SR-007A and SRM-353X in Japan. Spent about an hour listening to them and they sounded wonderful at my listening levels. Strangely the 007A is a SZ2-2xxx serial number.


----------



## Shure or bust

That Vietnam pop sounds terrible. Chinese pop and Japanese pop is so much better!


----------



## Whitigir

Shure or bust said:


> That Vietnam pop sounds terrible. Chinese pop and Japanese pop is so much better!


 I like them too ! As well as kpop


----------



## Ampeezy

edstrelow said:


> Also that the spring in the SROO7 is pushed upwards. This may do some good.  Plugging the port of my 007A boosted bass to unpleasant levels.



Boosted to unpleasant levels? that is quite the opposite of my experience. You have to make sure you cover it all up otherwise even more boosted bass is a possibility. The mod tightened up the bass considerably for me, sounded more like an electrostat should.


----------



## weasel1979

I am sure this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find it, so I have to ask: 
I am a KGSS owner (with an SR-007). Now I have a good offer for the KGSSHV (NOT Carbon). My question goes out to those who know them both. Is there a major difference in sound quality? How are the two different? 

Thanks!


----------



## wink

KGSSHV has better bass, amongst other things.....


----------



## astrostar59 (Apr 30, 2017)

weasel1979 said:


> I am sure this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find it, so I have to ask:
> I am a KGSS owner (with an SR-007). Now I have a good offer for the KGSSHV (NOT Carbon). My question goes out to those who know them both. Is there a major difference in sound quality? How are the two different?
> 
> Thanks!


The KGSShv has more of everything good IMO. There are subtle differences in the sound of the KGSShv's (various types) though, depending on which Fetts are used, the voltage, and if it is off-board or not. And some have different PS as well. I had 2 KGSShv's both being the Sanyo version and 450V. It was a great amp, warmish and superb bass, smooth treble, a good match with the 009s I thought. Kinda wished I could have kept it but had to fund the Carbon.


----------



## Whitigir

Now get a T2


----------



## Shure or bust

he-90: 55mm wide, and 85mm tall
ESP-950 44mm wide, and 82mm tall
ZMF Oval pads 55mm wide, and 73mm tall

Earpad mod options


----------



## astrostar59

Am I missing something, or can't we upload photos anymore??????????


----------



## behwatch

astrostar59 said:


> Am I missing something, or can't we upload photos anymore??????????


I could. only in desktop mode...


----------



## astrostar59 (May 2, 2017)

behwatch said:


> I could. only in desktop mode...


Sorted it. You need to go into prefs in your account, and de-select rich editor for posting. Then back in posts, and then 'upload file' tab appears. Wacked! I can upload photos again (mega important) but can't now add bold or formatting (also quite important). Jeeze....

Also my Gallery is GONE. That is bad as I look at other members galleries /photos for system info. Seems like we have nice looking averts, a new header to the page, but everything else is a step backwards. I hope the software can be tweaked?


----------



## Shure or bust

he-90: 55mm wide, and 85mm tall
ESP-950 44mm wide, and 82mm tall
ZMF Oval pads 55mm wide, and 73mm tall
stock L-700 plastic housing without pads 60mm wide 100 mm tall

pad size  40mm wide 80 mm tall


----------



## joseph69 (May 2, 2017)

Seems like we have nice looking averts, a new header to the page, but everything else is a step backwards.[/QUOTE]I very much preferred the "fixed" header which was much easier to access with your cursor rather than having to scroll back to the top of the page to navigate back to the rest of your "unread" threads.


----------



## bearFNF

that's why I book marked the unread threads page. no more scroll up and down....
I also bookmarked the subscribed threads page.


----------



## joseph69

bearFNF said:


> that's why I book marked the unread threads page. no more scroll up and down....
> I also bookmarked the subscribed threads page.


I do the same thing, but after reading an unread thread, you still have to go back to your bookmarks to get to the next uread thread, whereas the old platform you just placed your cursor right on the fixed header and went to the next unread thread.


----------



## paradoxper

The fix is in. Really freakin' excited!


----------



## JimL11

Congratulations!  One step closer.


----------



## Currawong

I had a bit of a listen to the SR-009 and T8000 rig in Tokyo. For good measure, when things were quieter, I borrowed a Hugo 2 so that I could use my own music, as the Stax table only had a CD player and Luxman DA-06. Thankfully they had 3.5mm cables connected to the second input of all the amps. I don't think I have anything to add to existing impressions, but it was great to hear 009s reach down into the deep bass while retaining their magic through the rest of the spectrum.

About images: You have to click on "Upload a file" after which, once uploaded there will be an option to insert it into the post.


----------



## joseph69

Currawong said:


> I had a bit of a listen to the SR-009 and T8000 rig in Tokyo. For good measure, when things were quieter, I borrowed a Hugo 2 so that I could use my own music, as the Stax table only had a CD player and Luxman DA-06. Thankfully they had 3.5mm cables connected to the second input of all the amps. I don't think I have anything to add to existing impressions, but it was great to hear 009s reach down into the deep bass while retaining their magic through the rest of the spectrum.
> 
> About images: You have to click on "Upload a file" after which, once uploaded there will be an option to insert it into the post.


You can also drag and drop an image into the quote/reply box, then click on either "Thumbnail" Full Image" or "Delete"


----------



## astrostar59

Yo Cory, I am excited as well. good luck, and looking forward to your opinions on the mighty T2!
I do like the colour, looks like a bronze metallic with the graphics in cream?



 
I do admit on my Carbon I sprayed the top plate a gunmetal grey colour to contrast the overall silver finish.


----------



## paradoxper (May 5, 2017)

astrostar59 said:


> Yo Cory, I am excited as well. good luck, and looking forward to your opinions on the mighty T2!
> I do like the colour, looks like a bronze metallic with the graphics in cream?
> 
> I do admit on my Carbon I sprayed the top plate a gunmetal grey colour to contrast the overall silver finish.


 No Color. Parts are polished and anodized clear. Laser etching shows as white as evident on HeadAmp gear.

Should have everything pieced together and rocking by next week.

Nice Julian. I dug the all silver but some contrast is also nice.


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> No Color. Parts are polished and anodized clear. Laser etching shows as white as evident on HeadAmp gear.
> 
> Should have everything pieced together and rocking by next week.
> 
> Nice Julian. I dug the all silver but some contrast is also nice.



Cool. It must be the photo, it looks a bit bronze. I do like the idea these DIY builds are unique as in the chassis and finish, even from the same builder. I wonder if Kerry is going to do another one?


----------



## paradoxper

astrostar59 said:


> Cool. It must be the photo, it looks a bit bronze. I do like the idea these DIY builds are unique as in the chassis and finish, even from the same builder. I wonder if Kerry is going to do another one?


My HV showed similar in the darker lighting.
Yes. He is planning his own and perhaps another.


----------



## mulveling

Nice, your T2 has been a long time coming! Love the BHSE-style front plates; that's my favorite look for an amp. And your sig "STAX or DEATH" -- they're not mutually exclusive, especially if you stick your fingers in a running T2


----------



## paradoxper

mulveling said:


> Nice, your T2 has been a long time coming! Love the BHSE-style front plates; that's my favorite look for an amp. And your sig "STAX or DEATH" -- they're not mutually exclusive, especially if you stick your fingers in a running T2



Thanks Mike. The BHSE was the inspiration as we used the same anodizing shop -- which was a super pain but results speak for themselves.

I'll resist the urge to finger the T2. Or try to...


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> Thanks Mike. The BHSE was the inspiration as we used the same anodizing shop -- which was a super pain but results speak for themselves.
> 
> I'll resist the urge to finger the T2. Or try to...



No fear, you will be glad I am sure. Jeeze, a T2, wow. I am super jealous. What can I sell, hmmm.....


----------



## bearFNF

Well crap... my 009's seem to be getting an imbalance/driver issue. The left driver is noticeably quieter. No distortion that I can hear. My Lambda NB still work just fine out of the BHSE. Tried the tricks I know (shorting the pins/discharging the drivers, letting them sit for week, running them for a week straight, etc.) to see if it would fix them and still no go . need help, any ideas?


----------



## mulveling

bearFNF said:


> Well crap... my 009's seem to be getting an imbalance/driver issue. The left driver is noticeably quieter. No distortion that I can hear. My Lambda NB still work just fine out of the BHSE. Tried the tricks I know (shorting the pins/discharging the drivers, letting them sit for week, running them for a week straight, etc.) to see if it would fix them and still no go . need help, any ideas?


Man down, man down...

Unfortunately I can't help here, but inquiring minds want to know how long you've had those 009?

Weird though -- I noticed a L/R imbalance issue of ~ 1.0 dB when driving L700 from the BHSE's RCA inputs (hooked up a vinyl setup yesterday), but no such issue with the XLR inputs. Have you tried a different amp?


----------



## Tinkerer

bearFNF said:


> Well crap... my 009's seem to be getting an imbalance/driver issue. The left driver is noticeably quieter. No distortion that I can hear. My Lambda NB still work just fine out of the BHSE. Tried the tricks I know (shorting the pins/discharging the drivers, letting them sit for week, running them for a week straight, etc.) to see if it would fix them and still no go . need help, any ideas?



Probably the bias wire coming loose from the stator in the ear cup. It's just a little rivet that holds it in. Easy to fix by tightening the rivet or adding a tiny bit of solder. You need to open it up to fix it though. Or send it off to have somebody else fix it.

If it's under warranty, I would get it mailed out ASAP.


----------



## bearFNF (May 5, 2017)

Had them for two years. Yep, tried them on my LL2 also and they do the same thing. My Lambda NB's sound find out of the BHSE NB socket. The rest of the chain is working just fine with my dynamic rig, also. I just reached out to HeadAmp and they just emailed me back for some info so they can see what can be done.

Might be a good time to pick up some SR-007 mkII's while I get the 009 fixed...


----------



## astrostar59 (May 6, 2017)

Tinkerer said:


> Probably the bias wire coming loose from the stator in the ear cup. It's just a little rivet that holds it in. Easy to fix by tightening the rivet or adding a tiny bit of solder. You need to open it up to fix it though. Or send it off to have somebody else fix it.
> 
> If it's under warranty, I would get it mailed out ASAP.



Did you have that issue, and fix it with the bias wire. My 009s went the same way with an imbalance. They were 23 months old and I got Stax to replace the 2 x drivers. No feedback  to what happened or why from Stax, but glad I bought them as UK warrantied. This is worrying though, I did think Stax had ironed out the issue. My 009s were mid 2014, and my replacement drivers are mid 2016. Sounds in Bears case his are mid 2015.


----------



## astrostar59 (May 6, 2017)

bearFNF said:


> Had them for two years.
> Might be a good time to pick up some SR-007 mkII's while I get the 009 fixed...



My 009s went the same way, and I was wondering if leaving them in the amp and it switched on during the day (not used) would affect them? I have no idea, but now I unplug them if not in use.

Thinking further about this, I am really angry TBH how a 4K headphone can continue to fail. The majority of the failures seems to be inside the first 3 months of ownership from new, and I read only 1 or 2 posts on here and at the other place that were nearer 2 years ownership, one of those being mine. I looked after my 009s very well, they were either under a glass globe with a vent hole near the base or in the Stax wooden case if not used for a few days. I also handled them a a new born baby, never used them with wet hair or walking around the room that could cause a lead snag. I live in a dry climate so low humidity. However I don't wear Polyester shirts (static magnets). But they went anyway.

I currently have a 'theory' of the cause in my case, maybe other cases. Mine went as I sat down in my metal / leather swivel chair, and I donned the already plugged in 009s. I am wondering if I got a static charge from my clothes to the chair, and that shot into the 009s. Static can discharge from one source to another different source typically a metal contact. I have no technical data to back this up, just the idea that static can build on a persons body with simply friction from soles on a carpet. In my case, I am floor tiles, but I do have a rug under my chair. Also one of my dogs was leaning against me at the time. Static in people has been measured as high as 40,000 volts, but less than 10,000 volts is more common. Possibly that would be enough to damage an electrostatic headphone? I hope this is / was the case rather than a mechanical failure.

I remember the boss at my old job wore Polyester shirts and he went through so many Laptops it was untrue. We finally got him an earth strap on his wrist when he logged in, and tried to get him to change his shirt material. Sounds funny, but it was as serious issue at the time.

I just hope my more recent driver replacements last ok. If I had to shell out 2K+ for a new pair of drivers I am not sure I would return to them at all, probably go back to my 007As.


----------



## Pokemonn (May 8, 2017)

darn(again lol) I found best main power wall outlet for my Stax rig. its dedicated main power line directly came from main breaker for bet rooms air conditioner which isolated from other home electronics equipments RF noise.
it sound very rich/very bold/deep bass/rich timbre/deep depth/rich nuance/euphonic/absolutlly not thin/bright at all.
FYI please try different main power wall outlet for your Stax rigs if you can. they tend to sound different. some sound thin/bright, some sound bold/rich.you don't need fancy power cable to experiment it. you need only 10$ extension power cable to try different connection to wall outlet. Suzuki-san guessed 1st floor sound better than 2nd floor. becouse 1st floor is immune to RF noises came from outer environments. also Suzuki-san guessed some(not all) solar power system's DC to AC convertors emit huge noise.he guess they may affect SQ. Stax rigs can hear differences.
also Suzuki-san(chief engineer of Stax) recommended me to use isolation transformer. seems He think isolation transformer affect SQ. I will try it later.

PS those difference is not subtle. relatively huge. sometimes makes even unacceptable differences.

hope this someones helps


----------



## greggf

Simple question:  If I only listen at moderate levels on both the 007 and the 009, is a BHSE or a Carbon worth it over the 727II or the 007tII?


----------



## Tinkerer

I've listened to quite a few stax amps and the 727II sounds awful with the 007 comparatively. It's pretty good after the feedback mod but I'd pick stuff above and below it rather than the deal right in the middle.

You can hear the difference in the Carbon immediately at all levels if that's what you want to know.


----------



## arnaud

I listen a moderate volume level and concur you still can do significantly better than the srm727, especially for driving omega / sr009 phones.

It's not just about power headroom although this is indeed one parameter (just like focusing on voltage drive and bias current may be too restrictive given that stax amps pretty much all satisfy minimum current / voltage drive for typical use, yet sound suboptimal).

Arnaud


----------



## greggf

Thanks, guys.


----------



## Tinkerer

Finished my golden reference power supply for my old SRM-Xh this evening. A fun little project, I'm glad I did it


----------



## hpeter

Pokemonn said:


> but but but...about 1K+$ KEF LS50s loudspeakers out of 20$ chinese amp outperform any HP systems in term of better imaging....this is the reason why Stax products need to be so cheaper I guess.


 When you start calculating BOM of any stat amp out there, you will wonder from where those thousands of dollars come from. 
Affordable stat amps are non existing - unless you go DIY. This is root cause of everything.


----------



## Pokemonn (May 7, 2017)

hpeter said:


> When you start calculating BOM of any stat amp out there, you will wonder from where those thousands of dollars come from.
> Affordable stat amps are non existing - unless you go DIY. This is root cause of everything.



yes but i actually satisfied with my current setup(iMac > DA-200 > SRM-007t > 009).
for example Sasaki-san(sales director of stax)uses SRM-T1 for his home.
in fact many people are still using SRM-T1 etc. if you are not so serious listener.
this things can be endless...lol


----------



## Whitigir

hpeter said:


> When you start calculating BOM of any stat amp out there, you will wonder from where those thousands of dollars come from.
> Affordable stat amps are non existing - unless you go DIY. This is root cause of everything.



Even so, DIY will still make it cost thousand of dollars.  Depends on parts. Ofcourse with DIY it is more flexible that way as you can always opt to use cheap or more expensive+quality parts


----------



## Petyot

Tinkerer said:


> Finished my golden reference power supply for my old SRM-Xh this evening. A fun little project, I'm glad I did it



Can you elaborate on the improvement ? thanks


----------



## Tinkerer

Leaps and bounds above the unregulated one it came with. Compared to a regulated wall wart, the main differences are it never runs out of gas on complex passages because of the big caps, and the noisefloor is much lower. With the wall warts I had, you could hear hiss about about 1 o'clock on the volume. With the Kevin Gilmore GRLV, it's dead silent all the way to max.

Really sounds like a different amp altogether compared to the default. I was surprised. It stands well with the full size solid state STAX amps and even above a good few.


----------



## Petyot

Tinkerer said:


> Leaps and bounds above the unregulated one it came with. Compared to a regulated wall wart, the main differences are it never runs out of gas on complex passages because of the big caps, and the noisefloor is much lower. With the wall warts I had, you could hear hiss about about 1 o'clock on the volume. With the Kevin Gilmore GRLV, it's dead silent all the way to max.
> 
> Really sounds like a different amp altogether compared to the default. I was surprised. It stands well with the full size solid state STAX amps and even above a good few.



Thanks! I understand that this is a DIY unit. Do you know any brand that sell that kind of power supply ?


----------



## paradoxper

Petyot said:


> Thanks! I understand that this is a DIY unit. Do you know any brand that sell that kind of power supply ?


The kind branded by a commissioned power supply from Tinkerer


----------



## hpeter

Whitigir said:


> Even so, DIY will still make it cost thousand of dollars.  Depends on parts. Ofcourse with DIY it is more flexible that way as you can always opt to use cheap or more expensive+quality parts


  Show me, teach me, which stat amp out there - his BOM cost thousands of $.
Looking at the BOMs, even Stax ones, I do not see any thousands.  (maybe in few cases, 5 hundred)

My diy setup cost (bom) was <1000€, premium tubes, transformers, Hg rect. etc. I guess this thing made by company would cost maybe 10x or more.
If i had now some time on hand, i´d like to try GaN FETs. Even those does not cost arm and leg, you get the idea.


----------



## hpeter (May 8, 2017)

But at same time i understand, what extra costs company has to pay, when selling commerial products, i work at EMS.
Let´s not forget that when you sell many units around world -- then your RnD costs can be easily spread across all units sold.
That´s why I do not agree with these high prices. Seriously, i would not pay 300-500€ for this one (maybe max100): http://www.audelec.fi/epages/audelec.sf/fi_FI/?ObjectPath=/Shops/2015040801/Products/STAX-SRM-252S[1]

Stax shoots themselves into foot with high price amps. Top reason for tiny market share, i´d like to see Stax grabbing firmly the market....


----------



## Whitigir (May 8, 2017)

hpeter said:


> Show me, teach me, which stat amp out there - his BOM cost thousands of $.
> Looking at the BOMs, even Stax ones, I do not see any thousands.  (maybe in few cases, 5 hundred)
> 
> My diy setup cost (bom) was <1000€, premium tubes, transformers, Hg rect. etc. I guess this thing made by company would cost maybe 10x or more.
> If i had now some time on hand, i´d like to try GaN FETs. Even those does not cost arm and leg, you get the idea.




The BOM itself on electrical components does not cost thousands, the other parts will.  Like I said, you can choose to use cheap parts or more expensive one.  A simple quality volume pot can cost $800 easily by itself, a less expensive one would be 1/2 of that.....they add up very quickly

https://www.onlinecomponents.com/alps-electric-rk50114a0001.html?p=10114282

Now, regarding Stax, beside R&D, they "will need" the after sale services, which includes warranty, return for refund, dealer networks, refurbishing networks.....etc....etc....these products are niche and not like automobiles where every family will need 1 or 2...lol


----------



## hpeter

Oh please man, this can´t be serious. Show me which stat amp uses ridiculous 800€ volume pots. If any.
Everybody uses blue alps pots, example-stereo model  with extra el.motor costs 25€.  *RK27112MC *
For 800€ you can have stepped attenuator or maybe autoformer. http://www.intactaudio.com/atten.html  (which is very different animal)


----------



## Whitigir (May 8, 2017)

hpeter said:


> Oh please man, this can´t be serious. Show me which stat amp uses ridiculous 800€ volume pots. If any.
> Everybody uses blue alps pots, example-stereo model  with extra el.motor costs 25€.  *RK27112MC *
> For 800€ you can have stepped attenuator or maybe autoformer. http://www.intactaudio.com/atten.html  (which is very different animal)


You asked me why I said going the DIY route could easily rack up thousands in part ? I guess you did not really read what I linked and or try to explain.  What is an RK50 ?

Simply put, there is no cheap quality Stax amp, even with DIY.

By the way, I like the autoformer you linked, and thank you


----------



## georgep

hpeter said:


> Oh please man, this can´t be serious. Show me which stat amp uses ridiculous 800€ volume pots. If any.
> Everybody uses blue alps pots, example-stereo model  with extra el.motor costs 25€.  *RK27112MC *
> For 800€ you can have stepped attenuator or maybe autoformer. http://www.intactaudio.com/atten.html  (which is very different animal)



I am guessing that you are complaining about the prices of Stax branded amps, which up till now have a negligible markup as compared to other consumer products.

And at least one stat amp that uses a $1000 pot is the Headamp BHSE.


----------



## hpeter (May 8, 2017)

Sorry all, but extra expensive components=snake oil to me.
Another example i experienced by myself was foil cap Mundorf (tube interstage), it wasn´t expensive much, so i tried it.
But oh man, sound improved after i throw it away, and used MKP WIMA instead.
Kinda i do not believe in boutique parts anymore (actually i never 100% did). 800€ vol pot surely belongs there.

And yes i do complain about Stax not making affordable amps, since not many folks can afford 500+€ for amp; nor they can build stuff themselves.
This group of people would buy L300/500 very likely as endgame, but for them >1000€ for a set is too much.
Probably we´ll not fix the world today here; it´s up to Stax Co. if they want to increase market share. (_i have seen many news recently about how big $ headphone market is, and will grow thanks to younger generations)_


----------



## JimL11 (May 8, 2017)

Well, high voltage stuff is always going to cost more, sorry.  And that's because the parts cost for transistors that can tolerate several hundred volts is always going to be higher than transistors that can only tolerate 50 volts.  Also, pretty much all stat amps are balanced, which costs a bit more.  It's the nature of the beast.  What you're asking for is economically naive and unreasonable.

Actually, the cheapest Stat amp (SRM252) costs $360 list price, and around $250 used, well under your 500 Euro. For that you get a well designed, decent sounding amp in a small, modest case with limited current output and a Wall Wart power supply.  That is realistically as cheap as you're going to get, especially when you take into account worldwide shipping, distribution, retail dealers, etc., all of whom have to make a living.

If the BHSE was sold through a dealer network and not direct to consumer, it would cost another couple of thousand more.  If you look at the casing and the internals, you can see exactly where the money is going.  And BTW, the BHSE does use a 4 section Alps RK50 pot, which costs around $1000, as an option (the standard is a DACT attenuator).  At that quality/price level, that is justified, and the price difference for that option is the difference in the parts cost.  However the rest of it is good quality but not boutique parts, e.g. Dale resistors.

To give another example, there is currently a group buy for a custom case for a DIY T2 at another site, and the going price is well over $1000 - just for the case, without any engraving, finishing, anodizing, etc.  That is the direct price to the builder.  Neither Stax nor HeadAmp is ripping off the consumer, they are pricing their stuff at levels where they can make enough money to stay in business.  They are not buying Lamboghinis with the profits.

You're a cheapskate?  So am I.

You want cheap?  Buy used.  The Stat SRM-T1/T1S is available used for around $450-650 and the circuit is still being used in the SRM-006.  It does need all the electrolytic caps replaced because they stopped building it in the mid-90s, but otherwise it is sonically up-to-date with any of Stax's current tube amps.  With a minor modification it is competitive with any of Stax's current amps, and at a recent meet it wasn't sonically embarrassed by a BHSE.

You want cheap?  Learn to DIY.  That's the original reason I learned to DIY, and it turns out to be another great hobby.  I built my prototype SRX Plus point-to-point for less than $500 including case, using transformers and chokes bought off eBay, and electronic parts from Mouser.  It would cost somewhat more if you used circuit boards and a nicer case, and according to others, it beats any Stax amp and is sonically competitive with anything below BHSE/KGSS Carbon level amps.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

@JimL11 straight to the point !

Ali


----------



## astrostar59 (May 8, 2017)

@JimL11 agree with everything you said there. There are also very good stepped attenuators besides the AlpsRK50, maybe not quite as good, but close enough. Going back to parts quality, I do believe they make a difference. I have tried various resistors in tube amps and liked Tantalums best. I could hear the difference. 

I also tried many caps in the coupling position in tube amps, and some were rubbish, others really damb good, but Copper Cast Duelunds bypassed with Silver, oh my, the absolute best I ever heard. 

Then on output transformers I have heard big differences. 

Then tubes, Mullard NOS are good, but sometimes Telefunkens NOS or RCA NOS (all 1960s) are better.

Then we have silver hard wiring. I could go on. 

So you can see I am totally into parts quality and the effect it can have. It is, in my view, part of the some of the parts, another element that makes a great sounding amp.

The design of the amp is obviously incredibly important, but so is parts quality.


----------



## ecmfidelity

I have just cancelled my pre-order on a Hugo 2. The reason is that I happened to listen to a Stax HP for the first time, L700. I have had a lot of high-end headphones, but the sound of this setup (L700 + 353X) took me by surprise. It was stunning. Now I am researching and learning about estat amps and realise most of them are balanced - that is why I cancelled the Hugo 2. Some amps, as all at Mjölnir-Audio seem to be XLR only while others like BHSE has both XLR and RCA. 

Is it a big difference regarding sound quality between balanced and unbalanced in estat setups? If yes, is it due to how the headphones are made or is it about the high power, or anything else beyond my knowledge.


----------



## edstrelow

hpeter said:


> Sorry all, but extra expensive components=snake oil to me.
> Another example i experienced by myself was foil cap Mundorf (tube interstage), it wasn´t expensive much, so i tried it.
> But oh man, sound improved after i throw it away, and used MKP WIMA instead.
> Kinda i do not believe in boutique parts anymore (actually i never 100% did). 800€ vol pot surely belongs there.
> ...




I partially agree here in that I have rarely, if ever, seen any actual evidence that people can tell a significant difference in performance as a result of using any specific high end electronic part.   This seems to be more of an article of faith. 

If on the other hand I am wrong on this, then the use of high end parts in esoteric designs may be what separates these designs  from the more mundane designs more than the supposedly better design. 

I am not trying to have it both ways but pointing out a logical problem.


----------



## Pokemonn (May 8, 2017)

ecmfidelity said:


> I have just cancelled my pre-order on a Hugo 2. The reason is that I happened to listen to a Stax HP for the first time, L700. I have had a lot of high-end headphones, but the sound of this setup (L700 + 353X) took me by surprise. It was stunning. Now I am researching and learning about estat amps and realise most of them are balanced - that is why I cancelled the Hugo 2. Some amps, as all at Mjölnir-Audio seem to be XLR only while others like BHSE has both XLR and RCA.
> 
> Is it a big difference regarding sound quality between balanced and unbalanced in estat setups? If yes, is it due to how the headphones are made or is it about the high power, or anything else beyond my knowledge.



you may did wrong decition? maybe?
I have a Luxman DA-200 DAC which have both balance and unbalance output. i hooked up both to SRM-007t's balance and unbalanced input. then i switched input buttons to hear it difference. result; i couldn't hear difference at all. some stax mafias in this thread, they say unbalance connection sound better than balanced connection. but if you will use long interconnect cables(maybe over 10-50meter?) you may need balanced connections.
Hugo 2 may be good DAC. i personally recommend to reorder it. if you like Hugo2.


----------



## paradoxper

Completion


----------



## JimL11

That was built for you by Kerry, correct?


----------



## Whitigir

paradoxper said:


> Completion


Too nice! Too good and too beautiful.


----------



## bmichels

WONDERFUL !  BRAVO !!


----------



## paradoxper

JimL11 said:


> That was built for you by Kerry, correct?


Yes sir.


----------



## mulveling

paradoxper said:


> Completion


Das it mane...das it!! Hope you're equally blown away by its sonics; I know I would be.


----------



## paradoxper

mulveling said:


> Das it mane...das it!! Hope you're equally blown away by its sonics; I know I would be.


I'm sure my work week will be very productive


----------



## Sko0byDoo (May 8, 2017)

paradoxper said:


> Yes sir.



Like Kerry's layout with input tubes in front.  Looks more 'natural' than with small tubes in the back.

That's one gorgeous amp, sir!


----------



## joseph69

If you don't mind me asking, which member is Kerry?
Thanks


----------



## paradoxper

joseph69 said:


> If you don't mind me asking, which member is Kerry?
> Thanks


Here

Kerry is more active at the other place, however.


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> Here
> 
> Kerry is more active at the other place, however.


Thank you.
Enjoy that gorgeous piece of work!


----------



## mulveling

A number of us have been admiring Kerry's beautiful work for a while now, even if only from afar. This is surely his masterpiece. Paradoxper's amp could possibly be the single best headphone amp ever built (along with Kerry's) -- great job picking a builder there!


----------



## paradoxper

mulveling said:


> A number of us have been admiring Kerry's beautiful work for a while now, even if only from afar. This is surely his masterpiece. Paradoxper's amp could possibly be the single best headphone amp ever built (along with Kerry's) -- great job picking a builder there!


This. I searched for a builder for a good minute. I sure lucked out.


----------



## Shure or bust




----------



## ecmfidelity

Pokemonn said:


> you may did wrong decition? maybe?
> I have a Luxman DA-200 DAC which have both balance and unbalance output. i hooked up both to SRM-007t's balance and unbalanced input. then i switched input buttons to hear it difference. result; i couldn't hear difference at all. some stax mafias in this thread, they say unbalance connection sound better than balanced connection. but if you will use long interconnect cables(maybe over 10-50meter?) you may need balanced connections.
> Hugo 2 may be good DAC. i personally recommend to reorder it. if you like Hugo2.


Thank you. I will hold on for now. Hugo 2 is not on the market yet. It is still my first choice. My interconnect is 1 meter  I like the sound of the first Hugo and Mojo. I drive the 353x with a Mojo for the meantime.

Headamp has a very attractive amp called Aristaeus (only RCA inputs). Anyone using that?


----------



## Pokemonn

ecmfidelity said:


> Thank you. I will hold on for now. Hugo 2 is not on the market yet. It is still my first choice. My interconnect is 1 meter  I like the sound of the first Hugo and Mojo. I drive the 353x with a Mojo for the meantime.
> 
> Headamp has a very attractive amp called Aristaeus (only RCA inputs). Anyone using that?



and you may use xlr male to RCA female exchanger to connect unbalanced cable to xlr balanced input.
please comfirm/ask amp manufactures about pin assign etc. when i asked spritzer via e-mail before, he was very kind person to answer anything.


----------



## Tinkerer

All the stuff that uses LSK389 or the equivalent PNP/NPN pair on the driver board can run single ended or balanced.


----------



## astrostar59 (May 9, 2017)

paradoxper said:


> Yes sir.


Cory, that is the best looking Electrostatic amp I have ever seen. Well done, and enjoy the sound.

BTW it is HUGE, I like huge. Make's me laugh, the things we do to get the most out of our electrostatic headphones. All the power and complexity to drive a micro thin, almost zero weight membrane.
Love it, totally insane hobby, and wouldn't have it any other way.....

You got any internal pics?


----------



## bozebuttons

paradoxper said:


> This. I searched for a builder for a good minute. I sure lucked out.


Congrats on the T2 it is a wonderfull amp looks & soundwize


----------



## hpeter

JimL11 said:


> Well, high voltage stuff is always going to cost more, sorry.


 Recently bought CREE SiC FETs 1700V  C2M1000170D  about 6€/pc  quite affordable IMO


> Actually, the cheapest Stat amp (SRM252) costs $360 list price, and around $250 used, well under your 500 Euro.


 Another shop, in neighbourhood, and again around 500.   https://www.audiotek.cz/stax-srm-252s-78910.html 


> To give another example, there is currently a group buy for a custom case for a DIY T2 at another site, and the going price is well over $1000 - just for the case, without any engraving, finishing, anodizing, etc.  That is the direct price to the builder.


 People made the decision to put it into fancy chassis, what i try to say -- it will sound the same if you put into shoe box. If not, then  something is very wrong.


> Neither Stax nor HeadAmp is ripping off the consumer, they are pricing their stuff at levels where they can make enough money to stay in business.  They are not buying Lamboghinis with the profits.


 Correct answer would be "i don´t know" since i´m not employed there as accountant / payroll.  


> You're a cheapskate?  So am I.


 Hard to answer, maybe  not, since i went with tubes and transformers. Cost sensitive, better word perhaps?


> You want cheap?


 Me personally i´m ok, but it´s about other people. And probably Stax could earn more and sell more in the total, if they made affordable amps.

I enjoy this fruitful discussion, maybe it will ring a bell at Stax.


----------



## Whitigir

Lol....the internet is a fun place to spot frogs in the wells


----------



## paradoxper (May 9, 2017)

astrostar59 said:


> Cory, that is the best looking Electrostatic amp I have ever seen. Well done, and enjoy the sound.
> 
> BTW it is HUGE, I like huge. Make's me laugh, the things we do to get the most out of our electrostatic headphones. All the power and complexity to drive a micro thin, almost zero weight membrane.
> Love it, totally insane hobby, and wouldn't have it any other way.....
> ...


Thank you. Kerry is masterful. I have complete proto pics all the way through the finished stage. I'll post something.


----------



## paradoxper

bozebuttons said:


> Congrats on the T2 it is a wonderfull amp looks & soundwize


Thank you. Do I smell some interest on your end.


----------



## paradoxper (May 9, 2017)




----------



## Ali-Pacha

May we insult you ? Very very bad ? 

Ali


----------



## paradoxper

Ali-Pacha said:


> May we insult you ? Very very bad ?
> 
> Ali


I think it's most deserving.


----------



## bozebuttons

paradoxper said:


> Thank you. Do I smell some interest on your end.


Its under consideration


----------



## VandyMan

Would you mind saying what the final cost of the DIY T2 was? Over 10K?


----------



## paradoxper

VandyMan said:


> Would you mind saying what the final cost of the DIY T2 was? Over 10K?


I think. I'd really have to go check the exact number.


----------



## Whitigir (May 9, 2017)

paradoxper said:


> I think. I'd really have to go check the exact number.


It would mostly be fair to let them contact Kerry directly.  ^_^, or giving them the huge ball parks would be a good idea too hehehehe.  Fe, 10k-15k hahaha


----------



## paradoxper

Whitigir said:


> It would mostly be fair to let them contact Kerry directly.  ^_^, or giving them the huge ball parks would be a good idea too hehehehe.  Fe, 10k-15k hahaha


10-15k sounds right. This is where Birgir's reported run was going to cost.


----------



## mulveling

But you guys could just build your T2 into a shoebox and save thousands of dollars...


----------



## paradoxper

As long as that shoebox is polished and anodized.


----------



## Whitigir

mulveling said:


> But you guys could just build your T2 into a shoebox and save thousands of dollars...


That would be a very iconic joke for a while if we keep it up


----------



## headinclouds

Cory I'm pleased that the wait is over for you, and hope you enjoy it!

Wonderful beast -congratulations Kerry - and probably even more pleased that huge project is finished


----------



## paradoxper

headinclouds said:


> Cory I'm pleased that the wait is over for you, and hope you enjoy it!
> 
> Wonderful beast -congratulations Kerry - and probably even more pleased that huge project is finished


Thanks Geoff. I think we're both happy we've reached the finish line.


----------



## paradoxper

VandyMan said:


> Would you mind saying what the final cost of the DIY T2 was? Over 10K?


Looking back, this build ran 10k, Nick.


----------



## VandyMan

paradoxper said:


> Looking back, this build ran 10k, Nick.



Thanks! Very beautiful build. I hope you get a lot of enjoyment from it.


----------



## mulveling

paradoxper said:


> Looking back, this build ran 10k, Nick.


Nice! Waiting for it must have been rough, but that's a bargain.


----------



## zachchen1996

paradoxper said:


> Looking back, this build ran 10k, Nick.



Just contacted Kerry about one, hope he's willing to build another one! I wonder if it can be finished in mustard yellow haha.


----------



## paradoxper (May 10, 2017)

Yea, I asked him if the floodgates had opened. He's looking forward to more.


----------



## zachchen1996

paradoxper said:


> Yea, I asked him if the floodgates had opened. He's looking forward to more.



Sweet, glad he's willing to make more.

As long as the amp can be built in time for whatever new flagship STAX has in store for us next year for their 80th anniversary I'll be ecstatic.

I look forward to your impressions of how the DIY T2 pairs with the yggy as I'm thinking that's the DAC I'll settle with.


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> Yea, I asked him if the floodgates had opened. He's looking forward to more.



How's the amp sound? It will need burning in I imagine. Any feedback on how it compares with other amps you have had and also heard especially with the 009s would be very interesting.

I wonder of this amp is the pinnacle of KGs circuits to date. I am thinking it might be, but only guessing as not heard a DIY T2 or a Megatron, or the GG either, only a KGGSShv and Carbon and of course Justin's BHSE. But the mystique of the T2 is there and enduring.


----------



## paradoxper

astrostar59 said:


> How's the amp sound? It will need burning in I imagine. Any feedback on how it compares with other amps you have had and also heard especially with the 009s would be very interesting.
> 
> I wonder of this amp is the pinnacle of KGs circuits to date. I am thinking it might be, but only guessing as not heard a DIY T2 or a Megatron, or the GG either, only a KGGSShv and Carbon and of course Justin's BHSE. But the mystique of the T2 is there and enduring.


It digs deep. I'm losing sleep.


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> It digs deep. I'm losing sleep.



Ha Ha, good to know. Enjoy!


----------



## hpeter (May 15, 2017)

paradoxper said:


> As long as that shoebox is polished and anodized.


First you must glue box  with alu foil. Remember - no wrinkles, you gonna ruin it badly that way !!!!
lol
Damn, and don´t forget proper grounding....!


----------



## pham

I own the _KGSSHV_ but keep tossing about a tube amplifier that could get the most out of my 009 as well as dynamic headphones like the Utopia and other electrostatic headphones with different bias voltages. And after months of prototyping... here we have reached the final version, called *DT-HWT*.

It features a dynamic bias voltage power supply unit which allows you to set different bias voltages for electrostatic ear speakers from 100-volt bias up to 620-volt bias.


Tube complement for the amp unit is: two *EF86*/E80F/6D8 & two *12AU7*/5814A/E80CC/E82CC & four *EL95*/6AQ5
Tube complement for the power supply unit is: two *KT66*/KT77/KT88/6550/6L6/EL34/350B/350A & one *6080*/5998/6AS7/6H13C/2399































































This baby is neutral and unstressed for long listening sessions and linear and damn quiet, it has a very wide bandwidth/soundstage, high resolution and very high definition in spades. Happy tubes rolling...


----------



## Whitigir

That reminds me of Megatron ...lol...Tubes galore! Good works sir


----------



## JimL11

pham said:


> I own the _KGSSHV_ but keep tossing about a tube amplifier that could get the most out of my 009 as well as dynamic headphones like the Utopia and other electrostatic headphones with different bias voltages. And after months of prototyping... here we have reached the final version, called *DT-HWT*.
> 
> It features a dynamic bias voltage power supply unit which allows you to set different bias voltages for electrostatic ear speakers from 100-volt bias up to 620-volt bias.
> 
> ...



Interesting.  Transformer output for dynamic phones?  Could you post a schematic?


----------



## hpeter (May 16, 2017)

pham said:


> It features a dynamic bias voltage power supply unit which allows you to set different bias voltages for electrostatic ear speakers from 100-volt bias up to 620-volt bias.


 Good thing to have, i found   that 400v bias makes phones less sharp, but lowers sensitivity also. Ok for lambdas
For 007 it had negative effect, sound was not ok. I´d like to see schemas, +1.


----------



## kevin gilmore

you definitely do not see modern old school assembly like that any more.

great job.


----------



## headinclouds

pham I love the classic style and quality of your work.  Nice to see something different.


----------



## nepherte

pham said:


> I own the _KGSSHV_ but keep tossing about a tube amplifier that could get the most out of my 009 as well as dynamic headphones like the Utopia and other electrostatic headphones with different bias voltages. And after months of prototyping... here we have reached the final version, called *DT-HWT*.
> 
> It features a dynamic bias voltage power supply unit which allows you to set different bias voltages for electrostatic ear speakers from 100-volt bias up to 620-volt bias.
> 
> ...



Thumbs up!


----------



## pham

Thank you all for your kind words.

I very much enjoyed building DIY stuff. And here we go...

*DT-HWT Amplifier schematic:*





*DT-HWT Power Supply schematic:*





Look forward to receiving your comments about this little baby.


----------



## pham

hpeter said:


> Good thing to have, i found   that 400v bias makes phones less sharp, but lowers sensitivity also. Ok for lambdas
> For 007 it had negative effect, sound was not ok. I´d like to see schemas, +1.



Yes, I found the same effect with my 009. Setting a bit higher voltage bias like ~600 VDC while listening to complex classical pieces does make the phone sharper, faster which I feel more enjoyable.


----------



## chinsettawong

Beautiful work!


----------



## JimL11

pham said:


> Thank you all for your kind words.
> 
> I very much enjoyed building DIY stuff. And here we go...
> 
> ...



So, the front end of the amp looks similar to the old Mullard ten and twenty watt Hi-fi amps but with ECC82 for the phase splitter.  But the EL95 output tubes are connected as cathode followers with feedback so the output sits at ground potential. And, there's only one cap between input and output.  The potential issue here is the need for the phase splitter to swing high voltages.  Did I miss anything?


----------



## kevin gilmore (May 18, 2017)

Vcc L == Vcc R == 275 volts
Vcc C == 450V

So max electrostatic output is something like 1000 Vppss, thd is 1 to 2%

hybrid tube/solid state shunt regulated power supply is definitely nice although quite complicated.


----------



## hpeter

pham said:


> Look forward to receiving your comments about this little baby.


 I would be litttle afraid doing power CF  with such high amplitudes. I meant the cathode-heater isolation, is like 100V max or so.


----------



## kevin gilmore (May 18, 2017)

You can float the filaments on the output tubes, same as megatron, works fine

Need one filament winding per output tube, 4 windings total


----------



## karlgerman

What a happy day. They had the HE1, the MSB Stax-amp and the new STAX Flagship amp for testing at the Munich HighEnd show.
Very subtile first impressions: 
the STAX Amp sounded flat on 009 and 007mkII, but that may result on music choice and quality they offered from the music server.
MSB was nice, warm sounding remind me on my BHSE,
Sennheiser HE1 -- best presentation, quiet listening room, very enjoyable and powerful sounding system-wow!
to bad that these toys are so expensive 
KARL


----------



## Whitigir

I will take that Bugatti, is it your


----------



## karlgerman (May 18, 2017)

As a Chiron driver it is allowed to park inside the show!

joking,---- that was the Car HiFi BURMESTER sound presentation object.

In fact, this is my car. Not to far away from the entrance too.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Geil !

Ali


----------



## Pokemonn (May 18, 2017)

karl german, is last picture you? you looks like my father... Lol


----------



## behwatch

karlgerman said:


>



Lol SR009 is not in the Lambda series. Should be High End series...


----------



## pham (May 21, 2017)

kevin gilmore said:


> Vcc L == Vcc R == 275 volts
> Vcc C == 450V
> 
> So max electrostatic output is something like 1000 Vppss, thd is 1 to 2%
> ...



This is correct, @kevin gilmore  To be precise the Vcc L == Vcc R == 280V and THD is less than 0.5%

DT-HWT is a push–pull tube design amp with custom-made OPTs that based on the specs of Stax SR-009 ear speakers, which has Sound Pressure Sensitivity: 101dB / 100V r.m.s. @ 1 kHz. So the safe max output of this amp is calculated at ~135V r.m.s.; meaning each tube cover half of that, which is ~67.5V r.m.s. x √2 = 96V, still less than the 100V max standard cathode-heater isolation like @hpeter mentioned.

Now, after I found out that the new STAX amp T8000 has maximum output voltage: 470V r.m.s. @ 1kHz, the amp can handle that by just adding an auto step-up transformer.

Thank you @JimL11, I only know Mullard have great tubes but am not aware of they also built great amps.


Here are a few more interesting measurements at *R = 6Ω (not with the 009)
*


----------



## hpeter (May 20, 2017)

kevin gilmore said:


> You can float the filaments on the output tubes, same as megatron, works fine
> 
> Need one filament winding per output tube, 4 windings total


I always had to ground the heaters, otherwise 50Hz spikes noise would mix into sound.
----------------
http://peteslab.blogspot.sk/2015/12/fully-balanced-hi-end-stax-amplifier.html 
i prefer load in anode, it´s safe. And tube lines come to full effect.


----------



## JoaMat

pham,, Indeed an interesting amplifier. Beautiful!


----------



## simomat

karlgerman said:


> What a happy day. They had the HE1, the MSB Stax-amp and the new STAX Flagship amp for testing at the Munich HighEnd show.
> Very subtile first impressions:
> the STAX Amp sounded flat on 009 and 007mkII, but that may result on music choice and quality they offered from the music server.
> MSB was nice, warm sounding remind me on my BHSE,
> ...



I spent three days in Munich I was happy I could listen to everything. 

I finally got to hear Headamp BHSE which I didn't like with 009, I thought it was too bright. 

Thumbs up for the new  Stax amp very nice and MSB amp. I also got the impression that the MSB amp was the smoothest and warmest of the bunch. Maybe the best but with a very small margin.

Ah by the way I have a modded 727 and the Questyle CMA800P as preamp. Not many people have it but I am perfectly happy with this setup now that I listened to the more exotic gear and I don't feel I miss anything.


----------



## astrostar59

karlgerman said:


> As a Chiron driver it is allowed to park inside the show!
> 
> joking,---- that was the Car HiFi BURMESTER sound presentation object.
> 
> In fact, this is my car. Not to far away from the entrance too.



Ha Ha, you funny. Karl, can I ask, how much better in your mind did the HE-1 sound v your BHSE and 009s? That is if it was better. Did you have a USB stick with some of your tracks?


----------



## simomat

Well I can give you my impression if you want. I was not particularly impressed by the He 1. 

I was much more impressed by the Shangri-la. The ladder might be the best ever. 

However I am more and more happy as a Stax owner and more of a fan of Stax policy. 009 are not that far back and are still one of the best after 6 years after they were released and the best if you consider quality/price ratio.


----------



## karlgerman

For the very short impression of the HE-1 i think it has some potential for a real deep bass and smooth, not to shrill heigh tone but still a lot detail.
Yes, for my taste it sound better than my 009/BHSE combo but for a serious comparison of DAC/Amp/Headphone  set, 
i would like to choose out of music and recording quality i know and two week time for testing on a quiet location.
I am sure the reason of the flat boring sound of the new STAX amp may result in unfortunate music choice.
MSB amp was smooth but maybe less detailed sounding?
Too much noise at the Booth.......


----------



## Pokemonn (May 23, 2017)

choice of source components are very critical, unless you do long home auditioning, you may not able to get proper conclutions imo.
when i auditioned he1 at tokyo headphone festival, very old Esoteric CDP was hooked up to he1.


----------



## astrostar59

karlgerman said:


> For the very short impression of the HE-1 i think it has some potential for a real deep bass and smooth, not to shrill heigh tone but still a lot detail.
> Yes, for my taste it sound better than my 009/BHSE combo but for a serious comparison of DAC/Amp/Headphone  set,
> i would like to choose out of music and recording quality i know and two week time for testing on a quiet location.
> I am sure the reason of the flat boring sound of the new STAX amp may result in unfortunate music choice.
> ...



Interesting. I think we are getting there on this. I take owners of the 009 and a good amp (BHSE, T2 or Carbon) as a good mile post for my preferred review. I will post my own review soon hopefully. Karl, what tubes do you use in your BHSE?


----------



## LaCuffia

Has anybody tried the L700 with the SRM-353x driver and can give brief impressions?   Also, is the L700 considered a brighter sounding Lambda in comparisons to the other lower models?  I've read conflicting reports on this point - some have commented on how great the bass response is while others say it is bright in the same way as the 009.   I had a 2170 system in the past which I found to be a little harsh in the treble at times.


----------



## statfi

For the past month I have been listening 009s with increased clamping force from rubber bands looped over the "ARC" (Head Spring).  See the attached photos for the rubber bands both on and off the ARC.  I have found a tradeoff between a minor decrease in listening comfort (more just a change in the "feel") and substantial improvements in fidelity with tighter clamping.  With the four rubberbands shown in the pictures, I hear (e.g., with Krips' Tchaikovsky's 5th on London) more clearly


1) individual lines in the composition incl. esp. secondary lines or subtle accents

2) "groups of individual performers" as opposed to "sections"

3) instrumental "action", i.e., how the components of instruments work together to produce the total sound, e.g., strings, bow and soundboard for violin.

4) hall ambience as distinct from "direct sound" giving a stronger sense of the room in which the performance happened and spatial relationships within that room

5) soundstage openness, i.e., the spaces between performers.


More in the arena of appreciation, the composer's score in all its complexity is more apparent, the instuments are more beautiful, the virtuosity of performers by themselves and in ensemble is more gripping.  While they are not my bread and butter, the rubberbands increase my pleasure in listening to e.g., Pink Floyd and Roxy Music, and appreciation for their wonderful music and complex productions.

This all started when, after upgrading to a substantially better phonograph cartridge with less bass bloat: I was consistently missing *something* from the bass.  Increased clamping gives the bass satisfyingly more "weight".  In repeated ABA tests, I *believe* that there is probably not much more spectral energy at low frequencies.  As is well appreciated here, the 009s  can go quite low.  So, I think that, the energy that is there becomes more "coherent", to give more weight and focus.  Double basses are a key player in this drama.  When I go back to stock 009s, I can hear the fundamentals from the basses at roughly the same level as through "banded" 009s, but somehow the fundamentals and all the harmonics do not conspire in the same way to produce the impact of bowed or plucked basses.  With stock 009s, the basses do produce an indistinct low "humming" and there is some "string sound", but it does not all add up to give the as much weight and impact as with banded 009s.  The increase in "coherence" applies all the way up the spectrum, making the sound much "cleaner" and more focused, in terms of both timbres and locations.  So, with bands,I hear more clearly where instruments are, and when more than one instrument is playing, I can distinguish notes from each more easily.


I am sort of hoping Tyl glances at this thread and might be moved to see if measurements show any of the audible changes I have mentioned above.  I would also be interested in hearing the results of others if they play in this sand box. I have not yet optimised the clamping force: I have not increased the number of rubberbands to the point where either the sound is getting worse or the lack of comfort is simply unbearable.  In some ways the change is not all that obvious, e.g., because the overall spectral balance and sonic character of the 009s is not changing all that much.  For me this is a "big, subtle" change: even after a month I am amazed at how amazingly good familiar or even new recordings sound.  We may have markedly different optimal forces, from listener to listener, as variation in head sizes presumably changes clamping force for even stock 009s; and personal tolerance to clamping force might vary widely.  However, for me, with my head size and the rubberbands I happened to find around the house, the musical and emotional value is substantial.


----------



## jcn3

statfi said:


> For the past month I have been listening 009s with increased clamping force from rubber bands looped over the "ARC" (Head Spring).  See the attached photos for the rubber bands both on and off the ARC.  I have found a tradeoff between a minor decrease in listening comfort (more just a change in the "feel") and substantial improvements in fidelity with tighter clamping.  With the four rubberbands shown in the pictures, I hear (e.g., with Krips' Tchaikovsky's 5th on London) more clearly



Wow, I must say it's unfortunate that you have to do that with such expensive headphones.  Seems like Stax should work on that!

I am glad it helps you, though.


----------



## Whitigir

Why don't you bend the metal band slightly all around for better cramping forces ?


----------



## Petyot

LaCuffia said:


> Has anybody tried the L700 with the SRM-353x driver and can give brief impressions?   Also, is the L700 considered a brighter sounding Lambda in comparisons to the other lower models?  I've read conflicting reports on this point - some have commented on how great the bass response is while others say it is bright in the same way as the 009.   I had a 2170 system in the past which I found to be a little harsh in the treble at times.



Unfortunately, I don't have the SRM-353x but I do have the L700 with a SRM-006t and a SRM-252s.  I had a SR-007/SRM-717 until very recently (for 10 years) and the SR-207 (that came with the SRM-252s). 

I don't find the L700 to be bright! Not at all! I do love the sound of the L700 on both amp and the tonal balance is just perfect in my opinion (on both amp). Compare to the SR-207, the bass of the L700 are just "better"... deeper, more defined, more punchy! and the L700 is not brighter than the SR-207.

Confort of the L700 is also better than the confort of the SR-207 (thanks to the leather pads)


----------



## LaCuffia

Thanks for your comments.....I am surprised the 252s can drive the L700 competently but I suppose the Lambda series in general are not difficult to drive as compared to the Omegas and that is part of their appeal.  I am torn between getting the L500+353x or the L700+353x...the former is the 5100 system.   I would think the 353x would be more than up to the task for the L700.  

I used to have a 404LE with a T1 and miss it but the only thing that bothered me was the headband mechanism kept moving.   The pads were also a little too thin.   The L700 and L500 both have a clicking system to hold them in place and have thicker pad design.   The 404LE was much smoother and balanced than the 2170 and the bass was pretty decent.


----------



## labrat

Whitigir said:


> Why don't you bend the metal band slightly all around for better cramping forces ?



There is no metal band, only plastic.
If you bend too much, the headband breaks.
009 have same headband as 507.


----------



## mulveling

The L700 is going to be bright on most of the KGSShv / Carbon builds. It doesn't seem to have this problem on the tube amps at that level (KGST, BHSE). I can't speak for Stax SS amps like the 353x.


----------



## ecmfidelity

LaCuffia said:


> Has anybody tried the L700 with the SRM-353x driver and can give brief impressions?   Also, is the L700 considered a brighter sounding Lambda in comparisons to the other lower models?  I've read conflicting reports on this point - some have commented on how great the bass response is while others say it is bright in the same way as the 009.   I had a 2170 system in the past which I found to be a little harsh in the treble at times.



I had L700 with SRM-353x for a few days before I upgraded to SRM-007II. I didn't find the setup bright. I was coming from a wast amount of dynamic setups and I can say I was stunned by the sound of the Stax setup. It was extremly transparent with stunning imaging, smooth highs and well defined lows. I'm now caught up in my srm-007II with sr-007 mk2, but I still remember the my first meeting with the L700 & srm-353x as revolutionary.


----------



## LaCuffia

I've been with planar and dynamic headphones the past year but always felt like there was something missing.  You always sacrifice something, as no headphone is perfect.  I still miss the Stax sound though and now looking to get back into it.   The transparency will probably come as a shock after all of this time.  I didn't think the 404LE I had lacked anything in the lower end, and bass impact is always the criticism of electrostatics.   I wonder if the L700 would be even more satisfying in that department.  A Stax system is obviously only ideal in the right home set up so just need to think about it more.


----------



## Jones Bob (May 23, 2017)

labrat said:


> There is no metal band, only plastic.
> If you bend too much, the headband breaks.
> 009 have same headband as 507.



The arc on a 009 is primarily a thin spring steel center section with plastic caps overlaying/covering the most of the body and edges. It can be easily bent to a better individual fit, if one is careful. Just don't over stress it in an all at once bend. Heating with a blow drier helps.

I don't have experience with the 5o7. My 207 and L700 have all plastic arcs.


----------



## labrat

Jones Bob said:


> The arc on a 009 is primarily a thin spring steel center section with plastic caps overlaying/covering the most of the body and edges. It can be easily bent to a better individual fit, if one is careful. Just don't over stress it in an all at once bend. Heating with a blow drier helps.
> 
> I don't have experience with the 5o7. My 207 and L700 have all plastic arcs.



507 and 700 have same headcarrier assembly, all parts same except the yokes: 507 have metal yokes, 700 have plastic yokes.
And headband/arch is all plastic, no metal inside.
009 have same arch as 507 and 700, but yokes and connection to the headband differs.
Adjustment parts (the click-setup adjustment ) is same on all these.
207 is very different, but can replace the headcarrier on the 507 if you replace the complete assembly.
The 207 headcarrier is smaller, so for me it just fits my head with the 507, the original have a lot more to go on.
007 have all different headcarrier assembly , this one has metal headband.


----------



## Jones Bob (May 23, 2017)

FYI, The original center section on my SR-009 was metal.


----------



## joseph69

I have to admit that I'm enjoying my Svetlana Winged C EL34's rather than NOS Amperex Bugle Boys in more ways such as detail retrieval and imaging as well as being more musically involving for me. I was content with my NOS Amperex, but in my case, ignorance was bliss. I'll never buy costly NOS tubes for my BHSE again. I've yet to try my RFT's.


----------



## verycoolalan

Wanted some opinions on Woo WES vs BHSE?

Have heard bad things about the WES....


----------



## turbo87

Have you looked at some of the Amps on Birgir's site. Carbon, KGST (called the mini BHSE) or KGSSHV to drive your SR009?


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

The BHSE is the best "commercial" amp you can buy right now, avoid the WES like the plague @verycoolalan


----------



## Rossliew

I just bought the L300/SRM252S combo and it sounds awesome! Hard hitting bass with the speed to match my faster metal tunes. Sounds great with regular 16/44 tracks..no etch but this is with my tubed Audio Note 4.1 DAC.


----------



## bmichels

Look what I brought back from MUNICH (very discounted buy)... just to try 

No way to use it at home since I have my BHSE, but on the go.... I will let you know how it sound.   

I have little hopes, but sometime there are good surprises.... and if it does not sound good enough, I will be able to use it as an external 6.200 mA battery (it has USB 5,0 volts out to recharge my DAC)


----------



## LaCuffia

I would appreciate some advice on the most economical amp (old or new) to drive the 007 mk2.  Would a SRM-1 mk2 Pro be reasonably competent?  Just looking for something under $1k while I save up for a much better driver for later.

I am debating between the 007 and L700 and realize that the latter is probably much easier to pair (like with a 353x) but really like the more conventional round pad design of the 007. It seems like it would be more comfortable although I've had Lambda models before and they are not bad comfort wise, just a bit awkward. 

If it's not even worth getting a sort of stopgap amp for a 007 then I guess the L700 is the way to go.


----------



## XLR8

Rossliew said:


> I just bought the L300/SRM252S combo and it sounds awesome! Hard hitting bass with the speed to match my faster metal tunes. Sounds great with regular 16/44 tracks..no etch but this is with my tubed Audio Note 4.1 DAC.



+1

Purchased these and have to say I am extremely impressed. 
I now have long listening sessions,  and find it very soothing for the soul. 
Love the stax.


----------



## Rossliew

Yes it is indeed killer for the money. Now it makes one wonder if something higher up the stax chain is still needed...although I have a Carbon incoming


----------



## Rossliew

I may , just may get a pair of 007 Mkii to complement the lambda. Or should I get a used pair of 009? Listen to metal mostly. And have a tubed Audio Note 4.1 Dac, parasound zdac and bimby to Dac roll.


----------



## wink

get both........


----------



## Whitigir

Lol, you know why Stax deemed and advertised the 009 to be their current Top of the line ? Because 007 is not .

Now, can you bring the 009 to it best potential or not ? Who knows what gears you have there, but you get my point


----------



## Rossliew

Heh...thanks for the feedback guys


----------



## paradoxper

I listen to 90-ish% metal and prefer the 009. 007 doesn't really lack much either, though. 

The only choice is both.


----------



## Whitigir

paradoxper said:


> I listen to 90-ish% metal and prefer the 009. 007 doesn't really lack much either, though.
> 
> The only choice is both.


Yeah, once in doubt, buy them all .  At least, one in the bunch would stand out, decide with the rest later hehehe


----------



## Rossliew

@paradoxper in your signature there's mention of a DAC V...is this the Naim V1?


----------



## paradoxper

Rossliew said:


> @paradoxper in your signature there's mention of a DAC V...is this the Naim V1?


No, MSB. I've never tried any of Naim's products but may look into it if I can find a dealer.


----------



## Whitigir

Try Jason @thesourceAV ?


----------



## Rossliew

paradoxper said:


> No, MSB. I've never tried any of Naim's products but may look into it if I can find a dealer.



I've had the pleasure of an audition when it was first released years back but the price has gone up quite a fair bit now due to exchange rate concerns...but my curiosity remains


----------



## paradoxper

Perhaps a used unit could be a route to go. I hate the dealer makeup but they do offer some conveniences. 

Or as Wink says ad nauseam "get a yggy."


----------



## Rossliew

Used Yggys are hard to come by in Malaysia...maybe better chance in Singapore. 

The Denafrips seem like an affordable bet


----------



## paradoxper

Well, first focus on enjoying your Carbon - then sort the 009/007 decision and wrap up finalizing your DAC. 
Lots of great choices out there to optimize your chain.


----------



## joseph69

@paradoxper 
How are you enjoying your amp?


----------



## paradoxper

joseph69 said:


> @paradoxper
> How are you enjoying your amp?


Immensely.


----------



## mulveling

paradoxper said:


> I listen to 90-ish% metal and prefer the 009. 007 doesn't really lack much either, though.
> 
> The only choice is both.


Yeah, you're now in an alternate T2 universe where the 009/007/he90 all sound amazing and surprisingly close to each other, each having finally hit their maximum potential.


----------



## paradoxper

mulveling said:


> Yeah, you're now in an alternate T2 universe where the 009/007/he90 all sound amazing and surprisingly close to each other, each having finally hit their maximum potential.


It is fandom but very true. I haven't heard the HE90 on the T2 but am keen to change that very soon.


----------



## Rossliew

how vast is the improvement between the T2 and the Carbon?


----------



## paradoxper (May 27, 2017)

Quantifications are a trap. How vast is the improvement between Coke and Pepsi or RC Cola? A whole 25%, surely.


----------



## Rossliew

Lol! Yeah I get the point. That's a very tall summit to aim for ...


----------



## paradoxper (May 27, 2017)

I can only convey the T2 is the very best I've ever heard by an appreciable and magical margin.

I could live out my days happily with a Carbon just as well.

However, I'd die happier with the T2


----------



## Rossliew

Can't wait for my Carbon to arrive. Do you reckon the L series lambdas can scale well with better amps?


----------



## MacedonianHero

wink said:


> get both........



^ What he said! Though, I'd recommend you search out for a 007Mk1...love my pair (though my SR-009s get more head-time).


----------



## Rossliew

MacedonianHero said:


> ^ What he said! Though, I'd recommend you search out for a 007Mk1...love my pair (though my SR-009s get more head-time).


I only fear maintenance issues with the early mk1s.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Rossliew said:


> I only fear maintenance issues with the early mk1s.



I've had mine for a several years now and if you take good care of them, they should be just fine. The secret is finding a good pair.  Mine are like-new.


----------



## paradoxper

Better? Like the Stax t8000 or t8000DR? Dunno. I just didn't see any related gear in your profile to understand the context of better amps.

I'd defer to Mulveling regarding the Lambdas (specifically L series) as he's heard 'em and probably out of all of it and I haven't. I also frankly don't have any plans to do so.


----------



## Rossliew

paradoxper said:


> Better? Like the Stax t8000 or t8000DR? Dunno. I just didn't see any related gear in your profile to understand the context of better amps.
> 
> I'd defer to Mulveling regarding the Lambdas (specifically L series) as he's heard 'em and probably out of all of it and I haven't. I also frankly don't have any plans to do so.


What I meant was whether it would scale with the kgsshv, Carbon, T2 in that sense. Am currently using a basic SRM252s amp for it.


----------



## Rossliew

MacedonianHero said:


> I've had mine for a several years now and if you take good care of them, they should be just fine. The secret is finding a good pair.  Mine are like-new.


Hard to find a like new pair nowadays I reckon. I'll probably just get a new pair of the Mk2


----------



## MacedonianHero

Rossliew said:


> Hard to find a like new pair nowadays I reckon. I'll probably just get a new pair of the Mk2



True...but they do come up from time to time.


----------



## paradoxper (May 27, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> What I meant was whether it would scale with the kgsshv, Carbon, T2 in that sense. Am currently using a basic SRM252s amp for it.



The notion would certainly imply so. I haven't heard those Lamdas  and so I'd rather avoid conjecture.


----------



## Rossliew

I'll drop Mulveling a note


----------



## astrostar59

Rossliew said:


> I may , just may get a pair of 007 Mkii to complement the lambda. Or should I get a used pair of 009? Listen to metal mostly. And have a tubed Audio Note 4.1 Dac, parasound zdac and bimby to Dac roll.



Knowing your DAC I would say go 009s. It has more energy up top but you will be fine, and you can tube roll to tweak things a bit. I used an NOS Mullard ECL82 on the PS to great effect, and the Bendix 6X5 equivalent expanded the dynamics and bass depth. I would take care on used 009s though, some folk have bought used and had imbalance issues after. Having said that the current 007A I got from PJ is faster and more alive than the old MK2 I had, and out of the Carbon it rocks. It is closer to the 009s best traits than the old version IMO, It avoids the odd veiled treble and boomy bass of my old MK2. So what am I saying? If not enough funds for a new 009, go new 007A 2017 model, my opinion. The 007 is a hungry beast but the Carbon wakes it up Ha Ha.


----------



## Rossliew

astrostar59 said:


> Knowing your DAC I would say go 009s. It has more energy up top but you will be fine, and you can tube roll to tweak things a bit. I used an NOS Mullard ECL82 on the PS to great effect, and the Bendix 6X5 equivalent expanded the dynamics and bass depth. I would take care on used 009s though, some folk have bought used and had imbalance issues after. Having said that the current 007A I got from PJ is faster and more alive than the old MK2 I had, and out of the Carbon it rocks. It is closer to the 009s best traits than the old version IMO, It avoids the odd veiled treble and boomy bass of my old MK2. So what am I saying? If not enough funds for a new 009, go new 007A 2017 model, my opinion. The 007 is a hungry beast but the Carbon wakes it up Ha Ha.



Thanks, Julian. I will try to tube roll a bit with my ANK4.1. Finally managed to get the top off so i'll be eBaying for quite a bit in search for that tube or three


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> No, MSB. I've never tried any of Naim's products but may look into it if I can find a dealer.



Cory, how you finding the MSB V? Is that a keeper.


----------



## astrostar59 (May 28, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> Thanks, Julian. I will try to tube roll a bit with my ANK4.1. Finally managed to get the top off so i'll be eBaying for quite a bit in search for that tube or three



As Cory suggested, I would run with the Carbon and your 007s or 009s for a while, then use the DAC or replacement DAC to 'tune' your sound. I am on the Audio Note DAC 5 and spent a good few months tube rolling and changing caps on the line stage. It took a great sound into something magical. With the 009s in particular, they give so much to the listener, but detail can come at a cost. Tune that detail and it will keep you happy forever, otherwise you will be on the buy / sell bandwagon. Don't forget the source (PC or CDP). If PC or Mac, it will need some work to sound it's best. I worked on my Mac Mini mods and Ethernet output and it brought probably more to the table (good aspects) than my DAC 5 tweaks. The good thing is the server tweaks can be cheap to do.


----------



## paradoxper

astrostar59 said:


> Cory, how you finding the MSB V? Is that a keeper.


It's fine. So is the Ares. So is the Ygg. I'll add a DAVE to confirm the hype.

We live in the dumb age of the digital IC where everything sounds good.


----------



## Whitigir

paradoxper said:


> It's fine. So is the Ares. So is the Ygg. I'll add a DAVE to confirm the hype.
> 
> We live in the dumb age of the digital IC where everything sounds good.



But be very careful though, not everything expensive will sound good, not at all.  Never ever, because it sound good, it is expensive


----------



## paradoxper

I look forward to never buying another commercial amp/DAC in the future.


----------



## astrostar59

All true guys. I think a DAC can make more of a difference than many may expect. If we stay on SS DS DACs then there is a flavour there IMO, bright camp, warm (dull) camp. Obviously huge generalisation but I found it holds water in my demos to date. Then the R-2R tubed camp that mostly stray away from both those traits. I am in that latter group, quite possibly forever. That is unless I hear something that blows my socks off and offers something more i.e. soundstage and detail BUT smooth delivery and an un-digital sound.  I have recently heard a dCS stack, and had a day long demo on the CH Precision, and they are both in the detail camp but left me cold, bored and clock watching. Digital is so complicated, can be so damb good, but also so annoying / fatiguing.

I will try and get a demo on the DAVE this summer in the UK to check it out. The FPGA and Chord's own approach to it may be saying something new, so interested. My stubborn concern in the design if that DAC is the switching PS and my negative experiences of that type of supply, and the opp amp line stage. But never to judge it without hearing it, I hope it is something new personally. 

Another DAC of interest may be the Aqua La Scala MK2 or the Aqua Formula. Seems on the money (£5.5K & £9K) and has discrete digital boards, the La Scala a tube hybrid line stage.

In looking for opinions on various DACs and the posts in this forum and elsewhere, I try to understand (if supplied) how it is fed at the source. I have found that can change things a lot, maybe more than the difference from an ok DAC and a great DAC for example., especially if fed by a PC / Streamer that is not optimised. 

There is a point of view at the 'other place', that there is no point in spending over 3K on any DAC right now as digital is moving fast again into new areas. I can understand that view. I have a personal comfort zone on digital, and if I moved DAC anytime, it would be a like for like budget.


----------



## Pokemonn

Wow Mojo > SRM-727 modified > 009 sounds so groovy and realistic...
Hugo 2 must be very good...
who said Stax can't sound groovy...lol


----------



## LaCuffia

What's the better choice for the L700 - SRM-353x or SRM-1 Mk2 (PP) (assuming the latter is in good condition)?   I don't know much about the Stax driver units.  I know the SRM-1 is sort of like an all purpose driver but can it power the 007 adequately too? I am not talking total wow factor but just enough so that the 007 competes with dynamics and planars in its price range.


----------



## JimL11

LaCuffia said:


> I would appreciate some advice on the most economical amp (old or new) to drive the 007 mk2.  Would a SRM-1 mk2 Pro be reasonably competent?  Just looking for something under $1k while I save up for a much better driver for later.
> 
> I am debating between the 007 and L700 and realize that the latter is probably much easier to pair (like with a 353x) but really like the more conventional round pad design of the 007. It seems like it would be more comfortable although I've had Lambda models before and they are not bad comfort wise, just a bit awkward.
> 
> If it's not even worth getting a sort of stopgap amp for a 007 then I guess the L700 is the way to go.



I like the old SRM-T1 series.  Stock, it's not so good for the 007, but should be fine for the L700, and it has that tube tonality.  Does need to have all the electrolytic caps replaced (thread elsewhere on Head-Fi). At the last Albuquerque meet I had a couple people listen to a T1 with a few simple additional modifications, compared to a BHSE using SR007 Mk Its, and although the BHSE was clearly better, the T1 was very good.


----------



## oktapod

OK, here's a question.  Would a BHSE or KGSSHV Carbon be wasted on my L700s?  Or would the same money be better spent upgrading the L700s first (assuming that I might like to get to 009s one day)?  I'm very pleased with the 006T + L700s (connected via balanced to a Mytek Brooklyn).

Another question: would 006T + 009s sound better than something like the BHSE or KGSSHV Carbon (or std) + L700?  Anyone tried this?

Just trying to work out what I should do first (if anything)....  another possibility might be KGST + L700 and save some money, but would I regret this?


----------



## paradoxper

oktapod said:


> OK, here's a question.  Would a BHSE or KGSSHV Carbon be wasted on my L700s?  Or would the same money be better spent upgrading the L700s first (assuming that I might like to get to 009s one day)?  I'm very pleased with the 006T + L700s (connected via balanced to a Mytek Brooklyn).
> 
> Another question: would 006T + 009s sound better than something like the BHSE or KGSSHV Carbon (or std) + L700?  Anyone tried this?
> 
> Just trying to work out what I should do first (if anything)....  another possibility might be KGST + L700 and save some money, but would I regret this?


While not having heard the L700, I'd take the path to least resistance and less gimped; stick with the BHSE/Carbon and L700.
I would try to find an opportunity to hear the 009 and see if you personally feel it brings something appreciable over the L700.


----------



## astrostar59 (May 29, 2017)

_LaCuffia said: ↑
I would appreciate some advice on the most economical amp (old or new) to drive the 007 mk2. Would a SRM-1 mk2 Pro be reasonably competent? Just looking for something under $1k while I save up for a much better driver for later.

I am debating between the 007 and L700 and realize that the latter is probably much easier to pair (like with a 353x) but really like the more conventional round pad design of the 007. It seems like it would be more comfortable although I've had Lambda models before and they are not bad comfort wise, just a bit awkward.

If it's not even worth getting a sort of stopgap amp for a 007 then I guess the L700 is the way to go._

In would search out a used KGSShv, KGST or a Birgir amp such as this:
http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/...static-stax-hev90aristaeus-type-amp-rk40-pot/


----------



## LaCuffia

Does anyone know whether the L500 pads are the same as the L700?   Also, can L700 pads fit on the L300?


----------



## BenF

LaCuffia said:


> Does anyone know whether the L500 pads are the same as the L700?   Also, can L700 pads fit on the L300?


They are not the same.
Both L500 and L700 pads fit L300 - I use L300 with L700 pads, instead of L700 with L700 pads


----------



## LaCuffia

Thanks....where can you get L700 pads in the US?   I don't even know if Stax USA is even operational.  I know they are notoriously slow anyway.


----------



## Whitigir

LaCuffia said:


> Thanks....where can you get L700 pads in the US?   I don't even know if Stax USA is even operational.  I know they are notoriously slow anyway.



My 009 was taken care off due to cosmetic reason within a few days.  I think the dealer you are using have a big role in how fast the respond maybe, and I am extremely happy with ThesourceAV


----------



## XLR8

Yes please pm me as well where to source l700 pads for l300 lambda


----------



## BenF

LaCuffia said:


> Thanks....where can you get L700 pads in the US?   I don't even know if Stax USA is even operational.  I know they are notoriously slow anyway.





XLR8 said:


> Yes please pm me as well where to source l700 pads for l300 lambda



The easiest way - buy L700 like I did, you'll get a free headphone with your pads.

Cheaper way - you can message Mit (my Stax dealer/pusher) on Ebay, he'll be happy to provide you a quote for any item you want.
I bought almost my entire Stax inventory from him.
http://www.ebay.com/usr/mmg0g0


----------



## LaCuffia

Whitigir said:


> My 009 was taken care off due to cosmetic reason within a few days.  I think the dealer you are using have a big role in how fast the respond maybe, and I am extremely happy with ThesourceAV



That's why I am reluctant to purchase Stax products from Japan on eBay.  I rather deal with US retailers for warranty and to avoid voltage transformers.   What Stax systems does Jason sell?   It seems like only high end like the 009.


----------



## XLR8

BenF said:


> The easiest way - buy L700 like I did, you'll get a free headphone with your pads.
> 
> Cheaper way - you can message Mit (my Stax dealer/pusher) on Ebay, he'll be happy to provide you a quote for any item you want.
> I bought almost my entire Stax inventory from him.
> http://www.ebay.com/usr/mmg0g0


Ahhh MIT.. 
Yes i bought my srs-3100 from him. 
Fantastic seller.


----------



## pham

*Electrostatic* headphone amplifier, the DT-HWT, acts as pre-amp together with Rotel power-amp and DYN Contour 30 floorstanding speakers, T+A CDP/DAC/Streamer.



What a sexy alternative setup for those rainy days!


----------



## Olschl

I need replacement pads for my SR-X Mark 3s and contacted Stax USA. I ordered the pads; but they are backordered. I've Sent them 3 messages through their site since 5/30 and so far no reply. Has anyone else had recent communication with Stax USA?


----------



## Jones Bob

Olschl said:


> I need replacement pads for my SR-X Mark 3s and contacted Stax USA. I ordered the pads; but they are backordered. I've Sent them 3 messages through their site since 5/30 and so far no reply. Has anyone else had recent communication with Stax USA?



You have a PM.


----------



## Olschl

I am new to this thread and obviously not as sophisticated in my Stax experience as many of you. My love of the marque began even before I had decent speakers. My living situation was more favorable to headphones so I wanted the best I could afford. In 1975 that was the SRD 4/SR 40.
Those baby's defined for me what reproduced music was supposed to sound like until a little over 2 years ago when I took over the basement as my listening area and got some Canton Ergo 1002DC towers. The Ergos in a nice roomy space finally topped the Stax soundstage.

The SR 40s started out on a modest Kenwood and stayed with me through a fairly nice Yamaha CR-820, to a sweet Nakamichi Receiver 2. Down stairs they made a new friend in a Rotel RX-1052, a Creek Classic 5350SE, and now a Primare I32. I always wanted to try a proper electrostatic and I fear one day the charge on my electrets will weaken. So I set my sights on the SR-X Mark 3, which I had heard was the best of the old classics. The pair I was able to buy is in good shape except the earpads have shed most of their vinyl covering. (What little is left is migrating to my ears.) They came with an SRD-7 so I can pretty much do a side by side comparison. The SR-Xs are louder, of course; but other than that, I don't hear a huge improvement. I hope new ear pads will improve the SR-Xs; but could these SR-40s be that good? Maybe my old ears are betraying me?

Anyway, I'm glad I finally found this thread, with the help of jcn3.


----------



## bearFNF

Olschl said:


> I need replacement pads for my SR-X Mark 3s and contacted Stax USA. I ordered the pads; but they are backordered. I've Sent them 3 messages through their site since 5/30 and so far no reply. Has anyone else had recent communication with Stax USA?





Jones Bob said:


> You have a PM.


 I'd be interested in this answer also if you can share. I have been tryng to get my 009 fixed for a month or so but so far no joy through my dealer, may just be a comm issue with Stax?


----------



## Olschl

bearFNF said:


> I'd be interested in this answer also if you can share. I have been tryng to get my 009 fixed for a month or so but so far no joy through my dealer, may just be a comm issue with Stax?


I'll post when/if Stax USA contacts me and what I hear from a Canadian dealer I contacted and the new USA distributor, RPD Ltd.


----------



## bearFNF (Jun 7, 2017)

I also noticed that Accutech is listed in the service section on the Stax USA page in place of Yamas. Would be real interested to know what is the right path here. Will need to reach out to RPD I suppose.


Olschl said:


> I'll post when/if Stax USA contacts me and what I hear from a Canadian dealer I contacted and the new USA distributor, RPD Ltd.



Looks like the address for RPD LTD is the same as Edifer USA
Edifier USA
428 Hemphill Street
Fort Worth, TX 76104 USA
1-844-368-3631

RPD Ltd. / Edifier US

Technical Support
service@edifier.ca


----------



## VandyMan (Jun 8, 2017)

Unless it has been recently changed, the STAX USA is defunct and will not reply. The Canadian distributor is great. HeadAmp and Woo Audio can also probably order what you need. If you need an English speaking contact at STAX for service, PM me and I'll share the email address. I have it from a recent service of my 009s.

[Edit: BearFNF added more details to his post and it looks to me like there is now a new way to get STAX service in the USA. However, don't bother with the web form on that site, if it is still there.]


----------



## VandyMan

bearFNF said:


> Looks like the address for RPD LTD is the same as Edifer USA



That is all new since I tried to contact STAX USA back in February. I definitely gave Edifier an earful about the non-response from the website, once I finally got hold of them. Probably others did too. I had heard they were planning to do service in Texas, so this looks to me like good progress toward that.


----------



## Olschl

Olschl said:


> I am new to this thread and obviously not as sophisticated in my Stax experience as many of you. My love of the marque began even before I had decent speakers. My living situation was more favorable to headphones so I wanted the best I could afford. In 1975 that was the SRD 4/SR 40...........
> .......So I set my sights on the SR-X Mark 3, which I had heard was the best of the old classics. The pair I was able to buy is in good shape except the earpads have shed most of their vinyl covering. (What little is left is migrating to my ears.) They came with an SRD-7 so I can pretty much do a side by side comparison. The SR-Xs are louder, of course; but other than that, I don't hear a huge improvement. I hope new ear pads will improve the SR-Xs; but could these SR-40s be that good? Maybe my old ears are betraying me?
> 
> Anyway, I'm glad I finally found this thread, with the help of jcn3.



Maybe it took some time for the SR-Xs to reach full (?) potential. Maybe they hadn't been played in a long time. Maybe I blew the wax out of my ears. I don't know why, but it is obvious that the SR-Xs have way more bass than the SR-40s now, and that's still with the worn pads.


----------



## JimL11

To change the subject somewhat, I have just published a modification for the Stax SRM-T1 series amps which significantly improves its capability, allowing it to drive even the demanding SR-007 Mk I headphones.  More info in the Stax SRM-T1 repair, re-cap, mod thread.


----------



## bearFNF

LOL, so I was goin to go to the WOO audio page to see if they had some SR-007MkII's available, but my antivirus flagged their site as having a threat, "drive-by-downloads" threat to computer safety, No thanks. will shop else where.
any one else get this?


----------



## labrat

bearFNF said:


> LOL, so I was goin to go to the WOO audio page to see if they had some SR-007MkII's available, but my antivirus flagged their site as having a threat, "drive-by-downloads" threat to computer safety, No thanks. will shop else where.
> any one else get this?



I opened their site, no warnings here!
Using Windows10 Pro, Firefox and Windows Defender.


----------



## JimL11

My Norton antivirus gave me the same message - malicious web site.


----------



## LaCuffia

Anybody have experience pairing the SR-009 with the SRM-1 Mk2?  I have the PP "C" series unit, which I understand is fairly rare.  I know it's not the end game driver for the 009 but would it offer reasonably good performance?  By all accounts the 009 is much easier to drive than the 007 but I don't know if that's only in the context of the Omega series and if it is significantly less sensitive than the Lambda series.


----------



## taxiq

bearFNF said:


> LOL, so I was goin to go to the WOO audio page to see if they had some SR-007MkII's available, but my antivirus flagged their site as having a threat, "drive-by-downloads" threat to computer safety, No thanks. will shop else where.
> any one else get this?


No warning.  Have the usual Windows junk and Malwarebytes.  The later is both necessary and sensitive.

gl


----------



## bearFNF

Well, the process is started to get my SR-009 looked at/repaired. Will need to ship them back to the factory to be inspected.
Still waiting for details on where they need to go. I believe it will be Hong Kong.
I will get into more details later as the process unfolds. It is going to be a few months at least from start to finish.

The good news is that this has made me get off the fence and pick up a pair of SR-007 Mk IIs.
So far they are a very nice change. Still figuring out the whole rotating cups and pads thing for best fit.

First impressions: not quite as detailed, less bass, not a bright overall, but very smooth presentation from both my BHSE and LL2 SS.
Still deciding which amp is ?better? or should I say more synergistic, heh, for them. Time will tell. I can see why some like the 007 vs the 009.


----------



## joseph69

.


----------



## joseph69

.


----------



## joseph69

.


----------



## joseph69

3 damn attempts and I couldn't quote the above post!

Good luck with the 009.
I found the 007 Mk2 to be quite the performer with the BHSE. The only issue I have is that I find I need to listen to the 007 at high volumes for them to really perform to my liking, which isn't good for my hearing. As far as the rotating cups, I found them quite annoying, so I removed the springs which creates more friction between the cups/pads so they don't rotate nearly as easy and the pads tend to stay firmly in the position you prefer, but can still be rotated if necessary. You might also want to do the port mod in time which I found to be a nice improvement for tightening up the bass. Overall I do prefer the 009, though.


----------



## JimL11

bearFNF said:


> The good news is that this has made me get off the fence and pick up a pair of SR-007 Mk IIs.
> So far they are a very nice change. Still figuring out the whole rotating cups and pads thing for best fit.
> 
> First impressions: not quite as detailed, less bass, not a bright overall, but very smooth presentation from both my BHSE and LL2 SS.
> Still deciding which amp is ?better? or should I say more synergistic, heh, for them. Time will tell. I can see why some like the 007 vs the 009.



Seems that for most people, the pads should be rotated so the seam is pointing towards your temples, more or less.  This produces the best seal.


----------



## bearFNF

Thanks for the ideas, will give it a try.


joseph69 said:


> 3 damn attempts and I couldn't quote the above post!
> 
> Good luck with the 009.
> I found the 007 Mk2 to be quite the performer with the BHSE. The only issue I have is that I find I need to listen to the 007 at high volumes for them to really perform to my liking, which isn't good for my hearing. As far as the rotating cups, I found them quite annoying, so I removed the springs which creates more friction between the cups/pads so they don't rotate nearly as easy and the pads tend to stay firmly in the position you prefer, but can still be rotated if necessary. You might also want to do the port mod in time which I found to be a nice improvement for tightening up the bass. Overall I do prefer the 009, though.





JimL11 said:


> Seems that for most people, the pads should be rotated so the seam is pointing towards your temples, more or less.  This produces the best seal.


----------



## Ali-Pacha (Jun 20, 2017)

LaCuffia said:


> Anybody have experience pairing the SR-009 with the SRM-1 Mk2?  I have the PP "C" series unit, which I understand is fairly rare.  I know it's not the end game driver for the 009 but would it offer reasonably good performance?  By all accounts the 009 is much easier to drive than the 007 but I don't know if that's only in the context of the Omega series and if it is significantly less sensitive than the Lambda series.


Before the coming (like a messiah  ) of my BHSE, I used to listen a lot to my 009 through SRM-1/mk2 Pro. To be honest, I think I did prefer it over my modded SRM-727 for 009 : less punch and technicality, but all around more natural / right sounding. 727 is a warm amp, and even when modded, it keeps something a bit metallic in the sound.
With my SRM-1, 009 are like a "super Lambda", and I do like Lambdas, as long as they're not x0x series.

Obviously, there's no way SRM-1 could be compared to the BHSE...but x15 factor on the price, too !

Ali


----------



## zolkis

Ali-Pacha said:


> Obviously, there's no way SRM-1 could be compared to the BHSE...but x15 factor on the price, too !



I have a modded (PSU and key parts) SRM-1 Mk2 Pro and compared it to the BHSE. The former had a little bit more bite with the bass, but sounded harder. The BHSE was smoother and more musical. Both could drive the 007 and 009 without issues, but the SRM-1 was louder at similar volume settings and at max level too. Usually I listen at moderate levels, so this is not a factor. Since the SRM-1 has both Pro and Normal bias connectors, and sounds pretty okay, especially with the 007, it's a tremendous value. I am keeping it around (still ponder making a Fostex-like semi-closed headphone with the Gamma Pro drivers and move the setup to the office).


----------



## LaCuffia

I have the L300 paired with the SRM-1 Mk2 PP (C series) and the sound is quite smooth and musical but can lack a bit of weight at times.  It's not anemic in the bass though.  Perhaps it's just something inherent in the e-stat sound signature that takes getting used to (had Stax in the past but been used to dynamic and planar headphones the past year or so). Would the 007 paired with the SRM-1 be too dull or dark sounding in comparison?   I am not going to upgrade the amp anytime soon, so not sure if the Omega series is worth the upgrade.


----------



## astrostar59

bearFNF said:


> Well, the process is started to get my SR-009 looked at/repaired. Will need to ship them back to the factory to be inspected.
> Still waiting for details on where they need to go. I believe it will be Hong Kong.
> I will get into more details later as the process unfolds. It is going to be a few months at least from start to finish.
> 
> ...



Good luck BearFNF, I am sure it will get sorted. Is It out of warranty? I got my 009 repaired at 1 month from the end of the warranty. Been fine since. 

Yeah, the current 007A / MK2 is better than the older versions of the MK2 IMO. It is still behind the 009 to my ears, slower, thicker and muddy in the bass. I am listening to mine now and I am using a 3dB treble shelf (lift) in DMGAudio EQuick inside A+. It livens things up but the soundstage is still narrow and details, decay and depth clues are further back, some plankton maybe lost or more or less. The 009 isn't perfect, but gets so much right I love it! I would say the 007 is a comfy leather chair, the 009 a sculpted rally car seat, and hang on for the scary drive Ha Ha,

Let us know how you get on with the repair, and enjoy the 007s. It is nice TBH too have both phones.


----------



## bearFNF

Yeah, out of warranty, had them two plus? years. We will see how it goes. got the shipping info and will be boxing them up and figuring out how to get them shipped next.


astrostar59 said:


> Good luck BearFNF, I am sure it will get sorted. Is It out of warranty? I got my 009 repaired at 1 month from the end of the warranty. Been fine since.
> 
> Yeah, the current 007A / MK2 is better than the older versions of the MK2 IMO. It is still behind the 009 to my ears, slower, thicker and muddy in the bass. I am listening to mine now and I am using a 3dB treble shelf (lift) in DMGAudio EQuick inside A+. It livens things up but the soundstage is still narrow and details, decay and depth clues are further back, some plankton maybe lost or more or less. The 009 isn't perfect, but gets so much right I love it! I would say the 007 is a comfy leather chair, the 009 a sculpted rally car seat, and hang on for the scary drive Ha Ha,
> 
> Let us know how you get on with the repair, and enjoy the 007s. It is nice TBH too have both phones.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

zolkis said:


> I have a modded (PSU and key parts) SRM-1 Mk2 Pro and compared it to the BHSE. The former had a little bit more bite with the bass, but sounded harder. The BHSE was smoother and more musical. Both could drive the 007 and 009 without issues, but the SRM-1 was louder at similar volume settings and at max level too. Usually I listen at moderate levels, so this is not a factor. Since the SRM-1 has both Pro and Normal bias connectors, and sounds pretty okay, especially with the 007, it's a tremendous value. I am keeping it around (still ponder making a Fostex-like semi-closed headphone with the Gamma Pro drivers and move the setup to the office).


I don't know which mod you have on your SRM-1, but reading your posts regularly here and there showed me you're on of those (rare) guys who hear completely different from me...For example, compared to my BHSE, my SRM-1 is definitely shyer in the bass and smoother, I find it has a real hard time driving my 007 and it's quieter for the same volume knob position (with same source).

Let's agree to disagree BTW...or at least let's agree SRM-1 is maybe the best bang for bucks among Stax amps 

Ali


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## JimL11 (Jun 21, 2017)

zolkis said:


> I have a modded (PSU and key parts) SRM-1 Mk2 Pro and compared it to the BHSE. The former had a little bit more bite with the bass, but sounded harder. The BHSE was smoother and more musical. Both could drive the 007 and 009 without issues, but the SRM-1 was louder at similar volume settings and at max level too. Usually I listen at moderate levels, so this is not a factor. Since the SRM-1 has both Pro and Normal bias connectors, and sounds pretty okay, especially with the 007, it's a tremendous value. I am keeping it around (still ponder making a Fostex-like semi-closed headphone with the Gamma Pro drivers and move the setup to the office).





Ali-Pacha said:


> I don't know which mod you have on your SRM-1, but reading your posts regularly here and there showed me you're on of those (rare) guys who hear completely different from me...For example, compared to my BHSE, my SRM-1 is definitely shyer in the bass and smoother, I find it has a real hard time driving my 007 and it's quieter for the same volume knob position (with same source).
> 
> Let's agree to disagree BTW...or at least let's agree SRM-1 is maybe the best bang for bucks among Stax amps
> 
> Ali



Well, the specified gain of the SRM-1 is 1000x, the specified gain of the BHSE is 500x, so assuming the volume controls of both have the same taper, the SRM1 should sound somewhat louder at the same volume setting.

OTOH, at least on the SRM-1 MkII Pro schematic that I saw, the output stage used resistor loads, so I would expect it to be marginal in driving the 007, especially if you crank the volume.  The same issue affects all the Stax tube output amps.


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## zolkis (Jun 22, 2017)

Ali-Pacha said:


> I don't know which mod you have on your SRM-1, but reading your posts regularly here and there showed me you're on of those (rare) guys who hear completely different from me...For example, compared to my BHSE, my SRM-1 is definitely shyer in the bass and smoother, I find it has a real hard time driving my 007 and it's quieter for the same volume knob position (with same source).



At least that is more in line with what others are saying, so I consider myself being the odd case. It may be due to the fact that I am using a 007 (Mk1) without the springs and with (modded) 009 pads. They do not sound dark (elsewhere I published measurements), they are between the 007 Mk2 (latest) and the 009 in openness. There is no amp I know about that would open up the 007 significantly towards the 009. With the BHSE, it just sounds right, I don't think about it sounding open or dark. Which tubes are you using on the BHSE?

[edit] the SRM-1 mods were mostly about upgrading PSU and parts (caps and resistors), the sound improvements were quite noticeable. Still, it retained the - slightly rude - character of a Stax transistor amp, so comments should apply, whether it's modded or not it's the same amp.


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## Ali-Pacha

Yes, I've read your experiments on pads and I'm very interested in them, but I'm not bold enough to try  And I totally agree 009/007 : you may open up the latter with serious amplification, but not enough to really fill the gap to 009 in openness. I did end up selling my 007mk1, not for my tastes eventually.

I use Mesa Boogie EL34 (STR447), very lively / punchy with great bass, maybe to the expanse of some refinement stat's zealot do love. My Shuguang treasures are a bit dull and bright compared to MB.

And I think I see what you mean by "slightly rude" : yes, Stax transistor amps could have something dry in the sound, but I feel SRM1 is better than (modded) 727 on this area, the latter exhibits kinda metallic tone to my ears.

Ali


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## Whitigir (Jun 22, 2017)

This song just make me want to cry tears of joys over how good the Stax 009 and KG GG can express it superiority in sound reproductions.  A real challenge


----------



## jcn3

I've got a pair of Stax sr404s that I would like to upgrade. Thinking about the L700 or SR007mk2. Both sound like great options. 

My concern is how they'll do with my SRM-007t amp. Seems like it'll drive the L700s easily but what about the SR007s? The SR007s seen like the best headphones and the best long term decision (no audiophile remorse) but definitely don't want to change out the amp.

Thoughts?


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## JimL11

jcn3 said:


> I've got a pair of Stax sr404s that I would like to upgrade. Thinking about the L700 or SR007mk2. Both sound like great options.
> 
> My concern is how they'll do with my SRM-007t amp. Seems like it'll drive the L700s easily but what about the SR007s? The SR007s seen like the best headphones and the best long term decision (no audiophile remorse) but definitely don't want to change out the amp.
> 
> Thoughts?



Difficult to say.  Depends on how sensitive you are to differences in amps, and how loudly you listen.  Objectively, the SR007s have the same rated sensitivity as the L700s, but the SR007s sound less sensitive than most other Stax phones because they have a few dB less output in the 2-4 kHz region that our brain uses to estimate loudness.  So, you'll have to turn up the volume a notch or two compared to the L700s to reach the same subjective loudness.  Now, if you don't listen particularly loudly, that may not make much of a difference.  So you can get some idea by turning up the volume with the L700s and see if the sound quality deteriorates noticeably.  I can tell you that one of my acquaintances who is very picky about sound quality used the less powerful SRM-T1 with a pair of SR007 Mk I for a while, but he also listened at relatively modest levels.  

Some people are not very sensitive to the differences in sound from a "better" amplifier - only you can answer that question.  There are definitely better amps than the SRM007 for driving the SR007 headphones, but one old time Head-Fier, Darth Nut, who no longer posts here, and who owned the legendary Stax SRM-T2, said that he preferred the combination of SRM007 and SR007Mk I to the SRM-T2 and the Lambda headphones that were available at the time, feeling that the improvement of the SR007 over the Lambdas was more significant than the differences between amps.


----------



## astrostar59

JimL11 said:


> one old time Head-Fier, Darth Nut, who no longer posts here, and who owned the legendary Stax SRM-T2, said that he preferred the combination of SRM007 and SR007Mk I to the SRM-T2 and the Lambda headphones that were available at the time, feeling that the improvement of the SR007 over the Lambdas was more significant than the differences between amps.



Bizarre indeed. There is a crop of owners who listen at low levels and / or also classical / chamber music so possibly that may not highlight general lack of dynamics or drive? No idea. But the gap between the Stax amps I have heard (SRM-007T) my first Stax amp the SRM 313, then later the SRM-717 was way behind my first KG amp, the Sanyo KGSShv 450v off-board. That was all on the 007MK2, then later the 007A 2015. Then on the 009 a bigger jump again. I really can't understand Darth Nuts view. 

IMO the current 007 is good as an all rounder, and is more forgiving with the source which may be key here. Once you get into the better DAC territory the 009 takes over, you don't need a comfy sofa 007 from that point, you need the super fast and transparent (linear) HP to tell you what is going on. The 007 with a great front end may be a bit of a smoke screen IMO even on the better KG amps. Having said that, the current 007 is improved over the main MK2 period which lasted a long time. It is also a bargain for those not wanting to go so insane on budgets. But my choice would be to hell with costs, just go for the 009 and the best KG amp you can get your hands on, (and a good DAC of course).


----------



## JimL11

Well, that was his opinion.  Goes along with the general idea that transducers are more variable than electronics.  Anyway, I think it is fair to point out that some people prefer the tonal balance of the SR007 II with port mod to the tonal balance of the SR009.


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## loligagger (Jun 24, 2017)

Haven't posted in a while, so I may as well share the T2. Should also be finishing up a Carbon build in the next few weeks.


----------



## Rossliew

loligagger said:


> Haven't posted in a while, so I may as well share the T2. Should also be finishing up a Carbon build in the next few weeks.



How's the Yggy pairing with the 009? Do u find the sound to be forward?


----------



## Whitigir

loligagger said:


> Haven't posted in a while, so I may as well share the T2. Should also be finishing up a Carbon build in the next few weeks.



Lovely, where do u buy the stand ?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Rossliew said:


> How's the Yggy pairing with the 009? Do u find the sound to be forward?


Out of a BHSE, said to be a bit less refined / more forward than a T2, I don't find 009 that forward with the Yggy. Obviously more than 007, but way less than something like an Utopia. 
Keep in mind I'm a "bright head", I do like something a bit energetic in beetween 1-2 khz (Stax !) and 5-6 khz (HD800 !), and I kinda dislike peaks above, especially in the 8-13 khz range (Beyer, lots of orthos, Fostex TH, etc...)

Ali


----------



## paul2qute

Oh exciting times ahead, Trilogy is bringing out an amp to drive the stax headphones, the launch is on July 8 th at hi-fi lounge,5 grand but I bet it will sound amazing, might go back to stax headphones again, can't wait!!!! Nic director of Trilogy and Nigel stax UK distributor will be there on the launch to discuss anything you need to know, oh happy bloody days!!


----------



## Whitigir

paul2qute said:


> Oh exciting times ahead, Trilogy is bringing out an amp to drive the stax headphones, the launch is on July 8 th at hi-fi lounge,5 grand but I bet it will sound amazing, might go back to stax headphones again, can't wait!!!! Nic director of Trilogy and Nigel stax UK distributor will be there on the launch to discuss anything you need to know, oh happy bloody days!!



Can barely buy parts for T2 at that price


----------



## loligagger

Rossliew said:


> How's the Yggy pairing with the 009? Do u find the sound to be forward?



Not really, of course YMMV.



Whitigir said:


> Lovely, where do u buy the stand ?



it's just the regular wooaudio stand that the 009 is on.


----------



## Redwingnine

Just picked up a Mcintosh D150 for use as a DAC with a KGSSHV and Stax SR007.  I had been using a Benchmark DAC2 as the DAC source for some time, and thought that it was about as good as could get.  The issue I had was that I was using the Benchmark as a preamp, and it only has a varible out.  The D150 has both fixed and varible out, which makes for better use as a preamp.  

I was very plesantly surprised when I used the D150 fixed output to the KGSSHV.  After listening to several of my favorite recordings and comparing the D150 to the DAC2, I found out that I actually preferred the D150 to the Benchmark.  The sound from the D150 just sounded more natural overall, with a bit of warmth in the midrange, slightly more heft to the bass, and silky smooth treble.  

The Mac D150 is a great match with the KGSSHV/SR007 combo.  Very happy with the performance from this setup.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks Ali and loligagger on the replies with regards the yggy/009 pairing. I recently received my Carbon and was thinking of a suitable Dac upgrade to the chain. Not using 009s yet just the humble L300. Currently using a Parasound Zdac MK 1 and an Audio note kit 4.1 Dac. 

Suggestions? Prefer a more natural sounding Dac.


----------



## paul2qute

Whitigir said:


> Can barely buy parts for T2 at that price


The Trilogy H1 is a total bargain then


----------



## peter2

jcn3 said:


> I've got a pair of Stax sr404s that I would like to upgrade. Thinking about the L700 or SR007mk2. Both sound like great options.
> 
> My concern is how they'll do with my SRM-007t amp. Seems like it'll drive the L700s easily but what about the SR007s? The SR007s seen like the best headphones and the best long term decision (no audiophile remorse) but definitely don't want to change out the amp.
> 
> Thoughts?


I own srm-007II and both sr-007 mk2 and L700 and I love both setups. To my ears, both headphones are easily driven by the Stax amp. I have owned a lot of high-end amps and headphones and my present setup easily beats them all. But I have not heard these HPs with the top amps from Headamp and Mjolnir often mentioned here. There is always something "better"


----------



## astrostar59

*The never ending 007 and 009 discussion*
All been said before, old news etc etc. BUT this week I am in my 'other' home and using my other system:
Mac Mini with uptone audio mod inc LPS > ethernet > Rednet3 with LPS Ethernet > SPDIF > AMR DP-777 tubed NOS DAC > KGSShv Carbon > 007A's 2015.

This is a change for me, as I normally major on the 009s and my Audio Note DAC 5. Taking the DAC out of the equation (I have allowed for the change)

I am thinking about the 007. It is not as fast, clear, wide, or even go as deep as the 009. It is more back of the concert feel, laid back maybe. But having said all that, it does have a character, or dare I say it, it is '*coloured*'. This is my view, and will wind up other 007 fans no doubt. But before we get all crazy. I am saying Stax has pulled off something quite special with this 007 version. The coloured sound, or it's character is very attractive to be honest. I know it is there, but I am enjoying it regardless. What speaker isn't coloured? The 007 has a kind of unique warm glow, a glue like flow to the notes and calming delivery. It is odd, and hard to get my finger on it. Everything is calm , nothing to be alarmed about., safe and secure.

A note on volumes, the 007 does need to be played on the side of loud to wake it up, the glue aspect I was referring to earlier. But once you get it going, it is really damb good. At lower levels the weaknesses v the 009 are more apparent. The speed and 3D aspect is obviously lower v the 009, as is the soundstage width and depth. But once my memory of the 009 fades a bit, it is entirely enjoyable in it's 'smaller head stage world'. Details are set back and have less edges, not digital edge, but the start and stopping of the notes type of edges, so clarity and decay are reduced. This is the price for the 007s forgiving nature and it's cosy leather chair character. It is acceptable in my system with a bit of EQuick EQ in A+ to compensate. With the EQ set to +3dB HF shelf from around 3K up to 20K it pretty much sorts out most the lazy treble aspect.

And here I am, enjoying the 007A immensely for 6 hours straight on lots of different music genders. Quite possibly one of the most easy to get on with Stax headphone ever made? I think it may be. It does need lots of juice and fails at lower listing levels somewhat, but as it gets a lot of things very right it is hard to not like it. I also like the look of it and the fit, even though it is an old design now. 

If I had to choose I would still have my 009s as the go to HP. But the 007A has got enough of the best Stax has to offer to provide some serious listening pleasure. IMO the big fan base of the 007 could be driven by the above traits, but also it's *forgiving nature especially on digital sources*. Many DACs can sound dry and brittle, cold and sterile sounding, so the 007s slant to warming things up and it's recessed treble and smooth delivery will go part way to negating those 'problem' DACs brittle treble.

I had to spend some time finding a DAC to 'fix' my own 009s, to get everything to sound right for me, it can be a punishing HP with certain amps and DACs, and IMO has gained some blowback due to that against it's remarkable delivery. I believe it is not unlike when I heard some big Wilson speakers played loud with a poor front end, it sounded awful. But I heard the same speakers 2 years later with a great DAC and they sounded marvellous. Transparency comes at a price, and like too much sugar has negative effects. The rest of the chain need to improve with it IMO. I also believe both the 007 and 009 scale with better front ends and the amp used to drive them, but quite possibly the 009 is on a stepper curve, i.e. it really takes off somewhat once the rest of the chains gets up to scratch.

YMMV but hope this helps someone.


----------



## jcn3

peter2 said:


> I own srm-007II and both sr-007 mk2 and L700 and I love both setups. To my ears, both headphones are easily driven by the Stax amp. I have owned a lot of high-end amps and headphones and my present setup easily beats them all. But I have not heard these HPs with the top amps from Headamp and Mjolnir often mentioned here. There is always something "better"



Thanks so much for the reply. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of both but am excited to choose between two clearly excellent headphones. Why do you have both and how/when do you use each of them?


----------



## peter2

jcn3 said:


> Thanks so much for the reply. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of both but am excited to choose between two clearly excellent headphones. Why do you have both and how/when do you use each of them?


I started with Stax recently after a long road (and many years) of headphone discoveries. After a few minutes of listening to the L700 with srm-007II I shouted Eureka! This is it! After a few weeks I got curious of the 007 and could not resist getting a pair. At the same time I could not bare to let the L700 go so I decided to keep both. The 007 has a richer, bigger sound, but the L700 is so perfectly intimate. Listening to the L700 feels like hugging the music itself, completly immersive. Both are the most comfortable Headphones I owned. Both are even more comfortable than Sennheiser hd800/hd800s and Grado GS1000e.


----------



## Aurimas

Hey,
I'm planning to go for speaker set-up for main listening. But want to keep headphone set for some ocasions.
Now have Grado RS2e and Audeze LCD-2 (fazor), but thinking about selling one of these (in reality, I love Grado more...) and maybe try Stax. Just for different sound exprience.
Which model I should look first?


----------



## jcn3

peter2 said:


> I started with Stax recently after a long road (and many years) of headphone discoveries. After a few minutes of listening to the L700 with srm-007II I shouted Eureka! This is it! After a few weeks I got curious of the 007 and could not resist getting a pair. At the same time I could not bare to let the L700 go so I decided to keep both. The 007 has a richer, bigger sound, but the L700 is so perfectly intimate. Listening to the L700 feels like hugging the music itself, completly immersive. Both are the most comfortable Headphones I owned. Both are even more comfortable than Sennheiser hd800/hd800s and Grado GS1000e.



thanks for the description. so i think you're saying: (1) that overall you prefer the l700 because of its immersive nature; (2) you appreciate the huge soundstage of the sr-007, so glad you have it too.  is that right?


----------



## peter2

jcn3 said:


> thanks for the description. so i think you're saying: (1) that overall you prefer the l700 because of its immersive nature; (2) you appreciate the huge soundstage of the sr-007, so glad you have it too.  is that right?


I love both equally


----------



## jcn3 (Jun 25, 2017)

peter2 said:


> I love both equally



Hehehe -- such an audio addict answer! 

I guess that makes the L700 a better value, though!


----------



## peter2

jcn3 said:


> Hehehe -- such an audio addict answer!
> 
> I guess that makes the L700 a better value, though!


That's right


----------



## peter2

Aurimas said:


> Hey,
> I'm planning to go for speaker set-up for main listening. But want to keep headphone set for some ocasions.
> Now have Grado RS2e and Audeze LCD-2 (fazor), but thinking about selling one of these (in reality, I love Grado more...) and maybe try Stax. Just for different sound exprience.
> Which model I should look first?


To be honest, I would not chose Stax for "some occasions". The setup becomes very expensive with a decent amp. For "some occasions" would have stayd with RS2e and a Chord Mojo. That said, I think the sound of the L700 is similar to the Grados Reference series, ie very transperent with a intimate sound stage. The L700 is just more transparent and rich, better in every aspect - and more expensive.


----------



## mulveling

paul2qute said:


> The Trilogy H1 is a total bargain then


It's not going to sound as good as a T2.


----------



## JimL11 (Jun 26, 2017)

paul2qute said:


> Oh exciting times ahead, Trilogy is bringing out an amp to drive the stax headphones, the launch is on July 8 th at hi-fi lounge,5 grand but I bet it will sound amazing, might go back to stax headphones again, can't wait!!!! Nic director of Trilogy and Nigel stax UK distributor will be there on the launch to discuss anything you need to know, oh happy bloody days!!





paul2qute said:


> The Trilogy H1 is a total bargain then



Not a lot of details so far, but what they say is:
1)  full vacuum tube design
2)  zero feedback
3)  high transconductance tubes
4)  direct coupled output stage

So, the technical concerns I would have are twofold.  First, with zero overall feedback, how do they stabilize the gain, as tubes will invariably drift with warm-up, as they age, etc., resulting in channel imbalances.  Second, for a direct coupled output stage, do they use resistor loads or current sources loads for the output tubes.  With the former, most of the signal current will inevitably be burned up/wasted in the output resistors, decreasing efficiency and increasing distortion - this is the primary reason why the Stax tube amps have trouble driving the SR007.  If you are going to the introductory event, I suggest you ask them about those potential issues directly.  I would be very interested to learn if they have satisfactory answers to these questions.  If they do not, I would not consider the Trilogy a bargain at 1000 pounds, let alone 5000 - JMHO.

I would also wonder whether this is a balanced in/balanced out amp.  Electrostatic headphones are inherently balanced, so balanced out would be important, and a lot of them (all the Stax and KG designs) are also balanced in.


----------



## astrostar59

JimL11 said:


> I would also wonder whether this is a balanced in/balanced out amp.  Electrostatic headphones are inherently balanced, so balanced out would be important, and a lot of them (all the Stax and KG designs) are also balanced in.



Jim you sure? I read a recent post by KG on here saying to do a true balanced amp it needs dual PS's and in the case of the T2 for example, he said nobody had ever built one with a 2 box PS. Apologies if I misunderstood this.


----------



## kevin gilmore

All stax made amplifiers and amplifiers made for stax headphones have balanced output
most stax amplifiers have balanced input, and some of the ones that have only unbalanced input can be converted pretty easy

dual mono power supplies is something different and doubles the cost of the power supplies.


----------



## JimL11 (Jun 27, 2017)

astrostar59 said:


> Jim you sure? I read a recent post by KG on here saying to do a true balanced amp it needs dual PS's and in the case of the T2 for example, he said nobody had ever built one with a 2 box PS. Apologies if I misunderstood this.



Yes, I'm sure.  To elaborate on KG's post.  All the modern Stax amps from the SRM-T1 onward are long tailed phase splitter/differential amp input, and differential amp output.  The long tailed phase splitter is simply a differential amp with the negative input connected to ground.  Differential amps are inherently balanced input, balanced output.  Most the Gilmore designs except the original all triode design are also differential amp input, balanced output.  The all triode is single-ended in, but balanced out.  The SRX, SRX Plus, Egmont, TubeCAD, eXstatA and Liquid Lightning amps are also long tailed phase splitter/differential amp in, differential amp out.  Frank Cooter's one-off for Jude is all triode single ended transformer coupled, but the output transformer converts the single ended 845 output to balanced output.  This is clear from looking at the schematics.


----------



## JimL11

astrostar59 said:


> *The never ending 007 and 009 discussion*
> All been said before, old news etc etc. BUT this week I am in my 'other' home and using my other system:
> Mac Mini with uptone audio mod inc LPS > ethernet > Rednet3 with LPS Ethernet > SPDIF > AMR DP-777 tubed NOS DAC > KGSShv Carbon > 007A's 2015.
> 
> ...



So let me enlarge a bit on an opposing viewpoint.  As I have said elsewhere, I have heard a fair amount of live unamplified music, not as much as some, more than others, and I have heard sometimes gross variations in tonal balance, etc., so I have some idea of how much live music varies.  I also play the piano recreationally, and know how much individual pianos vary in sound.  I am relatively tolerant of equipment flaws.  My long time speakers have been original Quad electrostatics, which are widely regarded as relatively neutral, transparent, and "musical" reproducers. I would also add that I have a somewhat different philosophy vs. DACs, which is that the DAC should be as neutral and transparent as possible, as should all the previous links in the reproduction chain, because what you lose upstream you cannot recover downstream.

To me, the Stax SR007 Mk I was a bit too soft, the SR009 a bit bright and the SR007 Mk II with spritzer port mod just about right.  I would also note that a brighter tonal balance tends to subjectively result in more transparency.  I realize that others on this thread such as astrostar59, Ali-Pacha, arnaud, purk and mulveling all prefer the SR009l.  That's fine.  But I feel the opposite, as do spritzer, recording engineer Bob Katz and, based on his comments from Big Sound 2015, Tyll Hertsens.  Now, this is not to say that we're right and those who disagree are wrong.  But, simply to point out that the SR009, although nearly twice as expensive, is not THE TOTL Stax headphone.  In my view, the SR009 did not displace the SR007 at the top of the Stax heap, they are equally valid as TOTL headphones and either can be considered an end-stage phone, depending on subjective preference.


----------



## kevin gilmore

The reason why you might want to go with dual separated power supplies (one set of power supplies per channel) is the decrease in crosstalk.
Built right you can probably get 6 to 8 db more channel separation. This is for both dynamic and electrostatic amps.
Of course the size of the power supply doubles, the cost of the power supply doubles etc. So a kgsshv-carbon built that way has to be a two box setup.


----------



## JimL11

kevin gilmore said:


> The reason why you might want to go with dual separated power supplies (one set of power supplies per channel) is the decrease in crosstalk.
> Built right you can probably get 6 to 8 db more channel separation. This is for both dynamic and electrostatic amps.
> Of course the size of the power supply doubles, the cost of the power supply doubles etc. So a kgsshv-carbon built that way has to be a two box setup.



This is the same reason that some people like to use dual mono preamps and mono power amps in their speaker set-ups.  Better performance, more cost, more space.


----------



## Whitigir

JimL11 said:


> This is the same reason that some people like to use dual mono preamps and mono power amps in their speaker set-ups.  Better performance, more cost, more space.



Well, obviously, if cost is a 0 issues, then every gains after the diminishing return will be worth it.  However, in reality, not so much


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## JimL11 (Jun 27, 2017)

Whitigir said:


> Well, obviously, if cost is a 0 issues, then every gains after the diminishing return will be worth it.  However, in reality, not so much



Yes, and at some point diminishing returns get so small as to be practically inaudible, or at least insignificant.


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 27, 2017)

JimL11 said:


> Yes, and at some point diminishing returns get so small as to be practically inaudible, or at least insignificant.


Ofcourse, and then people with huge pocket would still aiming for the stars.  There are people who pay the utility companies just to run a direct line from their main station to the house and pay for it separately.  Their ideas is to get clean and pure power lines that are separated from the other neighbors utilities and all the stuff that can potentially "stains" the power itself.  Could they hear it ? Who knows ? They claim that they do, and common folks like us would never had any chance to try it ^_^

However, that was the thing in the past, with the Tesla power wall, you can have your own pure power sources, if you can pay for it just to use with your system.  Especially if you already are into Stax and KG amps, or He-1, Sangrila stuff ?

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

Only $6,200 and I do think it is a very reasonable item for your top tier gears


----------



## astrostar59

mulveling said:


> It's not going to sound as good as a T2.



Ha Ha, true, but what is? Seriously wonder of any amp will beat the T2. Am going to hear the HE-1 in 3 weeks. Different system but keen to hear how far stats can go, and compare to my 009 and Carbon fed by my Audio Note DAC 5. Interested to also hear the T8000.


----------



## Whitigir

How could someone possibly be thinking any produced amp that barely cost the T2 in parts can sound as good as the T2 ? Lol


----------



## JimL11

Whitigir said:


> Ofcourse, and then people with huge pocket would still aiming for the stars.  There are people who pay the utility companies just to run a direct line from their main station to the house and pay for it separately.  Their ideas is to get clean and pure power lines that are separated from the other neighbors utilities and all the stuff that can potentially "stains" the power itself.  Could they hear it ? Who knows ? They claim that they do, and common folks like us would never had any chance to try it ^_^
> 
> However, that was the thing in the past, with the Tesla power wall, you can have your own pure power sources, if you can pay for it just to use with your system.  Especially if you already are into Stax and KG amps, or He-1, Sangrila stuff ?
> 
> https://www.tesla.com/powerwall



For myself, I'm much more interested in figuring out how to get as close to the best as possible for a bunch less money.  In other words, flattening the cost-quality curve at a much earlier point.  Hence, the SRX-Plus, which cost me less than $600 in parts (including case), but is in the same sound quality category as the KGST and KGSSHV according to those who have built one, and the modifications for the T1 which cost less than $40 in parts, and gives that old amp a strong dose of steroids.


----------



## paradoxper

JimL11 said:


> So let me enlarge a bit on an opposing viewpoint.  As I have said elsewhere, I have heard a fair amount of live unamplified music, not as much as some, more than others, and I have heard sometimes gross variations in tonal balance, etc., so I have some idea of how much live music varies.  I also play the piano recreationally, and know how much individual pianos vary in sound.  I am relatively tolerant of equipment flaws.  My long time speakers have been original Quad electrostatics, which are widely regarded as relatively neutral, transparent, and "musical" reproducers. I would also add that I have a somewhat different philosophy vs. DACs, which is that the DAC should be as neutral and transparent as possible, as should all the previous links in the reproduction chain, because what you lose upstream you cannot recover downstream.
> 
> To me, the Stax SR007 Mk I was a bit too soft, the SR009 a bit bright and the SR007 Mk II with spritzer port mod just about right.  I would also note that a brighter tonal balance tends to subjectively result in more transparency.  I realize that others on this thread such as astrostar59, Ali-Pacha, arnaud, purk and mulveling all prefer the SR009l.  That's fine.  But I feel the opposite, as do spritzer, recording engineer Bob Katz and, based on his comments from Big Sound 2015, Tyll Hertsens.  Now, this is not to say that we're right and those who disagree are wrong.  But, simply to point out that the SR009, although nearly twice as expensive, is not THE TOTL Stax headphone.  In my view, the SR009 did not displace the SR007 at the top of the Stax heap, they are equally valid as TOTL headphones and either can be considered an end-stage phone, depending on subjective preference.



Seems quite anecdotal. As in, there are outliers who feel the same with the HD600 and HD800.

Considering so much (all) of this is subjective experience, what "TOTL" replaced any flagship. LOL.

Obviously being cheeky, but when did the 007 mk 1TOTL dethrone the Omega?

I do agree any can be considered an end-stage phone, precisely dependent on subjective preference.


----------



## kevin gilmore

I highly doubt the tesla would be a clean and pure power source. Its a very high efficiency switching supply that runs at high frequencies and does a PWM that looks roughly like a sine wave likely with a fair bit of high frequency hash on top.

regenerative supplies are the best, and at most 50% efficient. Lots of extra heat if you have large power amps.


----------



## Whitigir

kevin gilmore said:


> I highly doubt the tesla would be a clean and pure power source. Its a very high efficiency switching supply that runs at high frequencies and does a PWM that looks roughly like a sine wave likely with a fair bit of high frequency hash on top.
> 
> regenerative supplies are the best, and at most 50% efficient. Lots of extra heat if you have large power amps.


I see. What regenerative ones would you recommend ?


----------



## paul2qute

mulveling said:


> It's not going to sound as good as a T2.


How can you come to that conclusion without listening to it?


----------



## paul2qute (Jul 1, 2017)

I know that the trilogy H1 is gonna destroy any electrostatic amp that's ever been made,probably not coming to America unless special order so I wouldn't get to bothered about it because America make the best hi-fi right?  Lol


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Why are you so sure Trilogy is going to be the best amp ever ?

Ali


----------



## Rossliew

Coz he works for Trilogy?


----------



## paradoxper

I think I may recall some similar hyperbolic shilling about some RKV garbage.


----------



## paul2qute (Jul 1, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> Coz he works for Trilogy?


I work for Unilever in port sunlight in the UK, I'm a factory worker,trust me when I say I know f all about building or selling hi-fi, I'm an end user like yourselves,it's like I feel I've got to apologise for having such faith in a product which surely ain't right


----------



## JimL11 (Jul 1, 2017)

paul2qute said:


> I work for Unilever in port sunlight in the UK, I'm a factory worker,trust me when I say I know f all about building or selling hi-fi, I'm an end user like yourselves,it's like I feel I've got to apologise for having such faith in a product which surely ain't right



Well, unlike you, Kevin Gilmore, who posts here from time to time, has designed some of the best electrostatic headphone amps in the world (KGSS Carbon, KGSS grounded grid, KGST, Blue Hawaii, etc.), and received permission from Stax to clone their SRM-T2 for DIYers.  He does this for fun, and not for profit.  He posted on another site that a no-feedback amp, which Trilogy says their's is, will have problems with stability due to tube warm-up, etc.  I am inclined to believe him. 

I have designed and built modifications for the SRM-T1, and designed and built the SRM Plus, which is based on an original Stax DIY schematic, and have posted on another web site in infinite gory detail why current source output loads are much better than resistor loads for electrostatic headphone amps in particular, so when I stated in post #12270 what the technical concerns were about the Trilogy design, I was not blowing smoke.  You don't have to apologize for anything, I'm just trying to make you a better educated consumer.  Unless you believe ignorance is better than knowledge...  Electrostatic headphone amps are very high voltage devices, electrostatic headphones are very, very high impedance and highly reactive, and the rules for driving them are different than for dynamic headphones, low voltage preamps, and relatively low voltage, high current amps for loudspeakers, which is what Trilogy has built prior to now.  Again, if you are able to attend the Trilogy presentation, I suggest you ask them the questions I listed in my previous post, and not rely on their previous reputation.  Engineering amplifiers is both an art and a science, and if you know a bit about the science behind it you'll be better able to judge whether the Trilogy has a chance of being as good as they claim.  If you choose to ignore the science part, well, you know the bit about a fool and his money...


----------



## Whitigir

JimL11 said:


> Well, unlike you, Kevin Gilmore, who posts here from time to time, has designed some of the best electrostatic headphone amps in the world (KGSS Carbon, KGSS grounded grid, KGST, Blue Hawaii, etc.), and received permission from Stax to clone their SRM-T2 for DIYers.  He does this for fun, and not for profit.  He posted on another site that a no-feedback amp (which) Trilogy says their's is, will have problems with stability due to tube warm-up, etc.  I am inclined to believe him.
> 
> I have designed and built modifications for the SRM-T1, and designed and built the SRM Plus, which is based on an original Stax DIY schematic, and have posted on another web site in infinite gory detail why current source output loads are much better than resistor loads for electrostatic headphone amps in particular, so when I stated in post #12270 what the technical concerns were about the Trilogy design, I was not blowing smoke.  You don't have to apologize for anything, I'm just trying to make you a better educated consumer.  Unless you believe ignorance is better than knowledge...  Electrostatic headphone amps are very high voltage devices, electrostatic headphones are very, very high impedance and highly reactive, and the rules for driving them are different than for dynamic headphones, low voltage preamps, and relatively low voltage, high current amps for loudspeakers, which is what Trilogy has built prior to now.  Again, if you are able to attend the Trilogy presentation, I suggest you ask them the questions I listed in my previous post, and not rely on their previous reputation.  Engineering amplifiers is both an art and a science, and if you know a bit about the science behind it you'll be better able to judge whether the Trilogy has a chance of being as good as they claim.  If you choose to ignore the science part, well, you know the bit about a fool and his money...



Amazing speech, and yes, I totally love KG amps for Stax


----------



## joseph69

I haven't tried this yet because I don't want to harm either of my amps, and currently I don't have another XLR cable to do so…but has anyone owning both the GS-Xmk2 & BHSE ever used the XLR preamp outputs from the mk2 into the BHSE? If so, would their be any benefits to using the mk2 as a preamp for the BHSE in regards to SQ or any other advantages or disadvantages for that matter? 
Thanks!


----------



## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> I haven't tried this yet because I don't want to harm either of my amps, and currently I don't have another XLR cable to do so…but has anyone owning both the GS-Xmk2 & BHSE ever used the XLR preamp outputs from the mk2 into the BHSE? If so, would their be any benefits to using the mk2 as a preamp for the BHSE in regards to SQ or any other advantages or disadvantages for that matter?
> Thanks!



I would doubt adding a pre-amplifier in the mix would be better IMO. The line out of standard DACs is 2V or 6V balanced, no need to add gain. The BHSE on standard input is about 11 o'clock, any extra gain would just mean the pot needs turning down more. If you were after flavours, a tube pre may do that (some tube pre's) but not all.


----------



## astrostar59

paul2qute said:


> I know that the trilogy H1 is gonna destroy any electrostatic amp that's ever been made,probably not coming to America unless special order so I wouldn't get to bothered about it because America make the best hi-fi right?  Lol



You can't make such claims, ridiculous sorry. How do you 'know' indeed know anything about the rest of the better amps out their to make such a claim. Back this up with facts sir.... As for America makes best amps? Where is that coming from. I think you will find folk here are 100% open to any amps from anywhere, as long as they sound good and are well built.


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> I would doubt adding a pre-amplifier in the mix would be better IMO. The line out of standard DACs is 2V or 6V balanced, no need to add gain. The BHSE on standard input is about 11 o'clock, any extra gain would just mean the pot needs turning down more. If you were after flavours, a tube pre may do that (some tube pre's) but not all.


Thank you for your reply and opinion about adding the mk2 as a preamp into the mix, and also about some tube preamps adding flavor, which is not what I'm looking for because I'm very, very pleased with what I'm hearing. I was mostly just curious if adding the mk2 would've been beneficial or not.


----------



## statfi

Back again to  the May 23, 2017  Post #12117  on Page 808 and clamping force. 


Rubber bands can raise the 009s to a new level of excellence, retaining their many strengths.  Across the spectrum, increased clamping force improves spatial resolution, clarity of instrumental timbres and the distinction between direct and reflected sound.  The last greatly improves the sense of the instruments in a real space.  Bass has a lot more impact with less (!) bloat. Musical lines in complex pieces are more delineated and performers’ nuanced mastery is clearer.   I think these advantages come from keeping the ear cups from moving with the music.  In a similar vein, I have now found that damping the aluminum ear cups with tight cable ties improves the purity of timbres and resolution of aspects of the performance.


We are talking about a lot of force.  Without rubber bands, I measured the force from the 009s on a body roughly the width of my head as 5.92oz.  With the 3 thick rubber bands I have been using, for the same width, I measure 20.14oz.  I make sure the 009s are not riding too far forward toward my face, so that the back of my skull supports its fair share of the added force.  I chose the "3 rubber bands" because they give as much clamping as I can take  !-)


In response to jcn3, I suspect that Stax, in designing the 009s, treated comfort very seriously.  So maybe they chose to trade some fidelity for comfort.  We can retroactively adjust that tradeoff to meet our own tastes, without dropping another $1k, $2k or $5k.


simomat in #12110 says “I finally got to hear Headamp BHSE which I didn't like with 009, I thought it was too bright”, somewhat similar to JimL11 who in #12253 finds “the SR009 a bit bright”.    The reason I started playing with rubber bands is that I found the 009s to be wonderful, but on the “lite” side.  Higher clamping force, I think, does not actually shift the spectrum very much, but does give the low end of the spectrum much more power and “weight” and causes upper frequency hash riding above upper harmonics to integrate into those harmonics to give less impression of excess brightness.  I no longer find my 009’s to be “lite”.


Karlgerman in #12113 says “For the very short impression of the HE-1 I think it has some potential for a real deep bass and smooth, not to shrill high tone but still a lot detail.”  That description is good for the 009s with increased clamping.


My analog system is far better and costlier than my digital system, so I normally listen to analog.  However, I played a few hi-res files with and without rubber bands and find that digital music benefits from increased clamping as well.


Rubber bands are dirt cheap.  I would like to hear from any folks who are not too classy to give them a go  !-)


----------



## Shure or bust

Anyone else using a KGSS DX Edition? Mines a 2006 original unit that I paired with a Stax L700. Should I sell it and get a Woo Audio WEE instead?


----------



## georgep

Shure or bust said:


> Anyone else using a KGSS DX Edition? Mines a 2006 original unit that I paired with a Stax L700. Should I sell it and get a Woo Audio WEE instead?



Only if you are looking to downgrade.


----------



## JimL11

georgep said:


> Only if you are looking to downgrade.



1+, also some of the Woo WEEs had a design flaw in their bias supply that could fry your diaphragms, according to spritzer.


----------



## wink

Shure or bust said:


> Anyone else using a KGSS DX Edition? Mines a 2006 original unit that I paired with a Stax L700. Should I sell it and get a Woo Audio WEE instead?



Nope, nay, nyet, nada, nix-it, non, nein, never, not ever, not in this time continuum, not in this universe, not in this existence, etc, etc, ad hoc, ad addendum, ad astra, ad nauseum, ad infinitum.


----------



## bearFNF

I would say a big no to that as well, besides needing power amp to drive the WOO WEE, the KGSS DX would be better IMO.

As far as the WOO WEE I used one for awhile and had now issues driving SR-009 and Lambda NB with it and a toppings T32.


----------



## mulveling

I'm sure that DX is a great amp, but at this point it's been passed around the community like herpes.


----------



## astrostar59 (Jul 3, 2017)

mulveling said:


> I'm sure that DX is a great amp, but at this point it's been passed around the community like herpes.



Ha Ha, like it. Best bet this side of the universe, get a DIY'er to build a decent KG amp, or buy the BHSE. Simple really. Anything else amp wise may be a compromise / mistake / something you may regret / waste your money / be bored quickly off / think the stat game is overrated. Have I missed anything? Unless the new Stax T8000 is really an improvement? Will hear it in 2 weeks.

Seriously though, look around and spend wisely.

A few years back the Woo Wes on this forum seemed to be up there with the BHSE, but it has really faded in popularity here. I don't read any recent reports on it anymore. Odd? Any users out there want to chime in?


----------



## MacedonianHero

georgep said:


> Only if you are looking to downgrade.



Substantially....


----------



## statfi

As you can see from my moniker, I remove 3/4 of the protective slats on the outsides of my Lambdas.  The 009s have much more acoustically transparent screens for protection, but I would like to see how they sound without, nevertheless.

Does anyone now what the 009's' protective screens are made from?

Could anyone point me to instructions to disassemble and reassemble the 009's?


----------



## LaCuffia

It's daring of you to attempt to do that to a $4k earspeaker.  But then again I don't see the point of spending that kind of money and wanting to do further tweaks to improve the sound. It has to be pretty much perfect in stock form, which I would expect if I ever am fortunate enough to purchase a 009.


----------



## wink

..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





..


----------



## paul2qute

JimL11 said:


> Well, unlike you, Kevin Gilmore, who posts here from time to time, has designed some of the best electrostatic headphone amps in the world (KGSS Carbon, KGSS grounded grid, KGST, Blue Hawaii, etc.), and received permission from Stax to clone their SRM-T2 for DIYers.  He does this for fun, and not for profit.  He posted on another site that a no-feedback amp, which Trilogy says their's is, will have problems with stability due to tube warm-up, etc.  I am inclined to believe him.
> 
> I have designed and built modifications for the SRM-T1, and designed and built the SRM Plus, which is based on an original Stax DIY schematic, and have posted on another web site in infinite gory detail why current source output loads are much better than resistor loads for electrostatic headphone amps in particular, so when I stated in post #12270 what the technical concerns were about the Trilogy design, I was not blowing smoke.  You don't have to apologize for anything, I'm just trying to make you a better educated consumer.  Unless you believe ignorance is better than knowledge...  Electrostatic headphone amps are very high voltage devices, electrostatic headphones are very, very high impedance and highly reactive, and the rules for driving them are different than for dynamic headphones, low voltage preamps, and relatively low voltage, high current amps for loudspeakers, which is what Trilogy has built prior to now.  Again, if you are able to attend the Trilogy presentation, I suggest you ask them the questions I listed in my previous post, and not rely on their previous reputation.  Engineering amplifiers is both an art and a science, and if you know a bit about the science behind it you'll be better able to judge whether the Trilogy has a chance of being as good as they claim.  If you choose to ignore the science part, well, you know the bit about a fool and his money...


I can't go presentation as I'm working but would of loved to of asked them questions you mentioned, I wouldn't buy any amp without listening to it and make my judgement but thanks for your reply, very interesting


----------



## paul2qute

astrostar59 said:


> You can't make such claims, ridiculous sorry. How do you 'know' indeed know anything about the rest of the better amps out their to make such a claim. Back this up with facts sir.... As for America makes best amps? Where is that coming from. I think you will find folk here are 100% open to any amps from anywhere, as long as they sound good and are well built.


It was just wishful thinking, The trilogy might not be all that but I'm looking forward to finding out as I've loved his other products


----------



## bmichels

With my A&K SP1000 received today, my *portable battery operated Stax set-up *is now complete   .   Ready to go....


----------



## VGoghs earfrmsc

Can't find where to start new thread now that I want it, so it goes here.
Can anyone fathom the insanity of stax signature prices on ebay, £601, £516, £441, £432, there are cheaper prices but people don't seem to want their signatures to be auctioned. It seems contagious to request evermore extortionate prices.  I really don't get it, do you?


----------



## Pokemonn

becouse it sounds good - Fang Bian


----------



## Whitigir

Pokemonn said:


> becouse it sounds good - Fang Bian


Classic, I am telling you .  Perhap it would be a Meme that last for generations into the Audio world


----------



## Whitigir

Please allow me to share another track with such nice treble.  009+GG+ LSK 004


----------



## hpeter

bmichels said:


> With my A&K SP1000 received today, my *portable battery operated Stax set-up *is now complete   .   Ready to go....


the ambient noise must be a PITA (if you´re wearing outside)


----------



## paradoxper (Jul 6, 2017)

Whitigir said:


> Please allow me to share another track with such nice treble.  009+GG+ LSK 004




Suuuuuuuuch terrible music selection. Worse than the first.


----------



## bmichels

hpeter said:


> the ambient noise must be a PITA (if you´re wearing outside)



correct, I only use it in my personal anéchoïque room !


----------



## Whitigir

Please Share me some EDM folks ! I am in the mood for it today


----------



## LaCuffia

There seems to be a lot of Asian pop music fans on this forum.  Hey, whatever floats your boat.  I just can't get on with mainstream music in general - Celine Dion, Adele, Katy Perry, Ed Sheeran etc.  Dreadful.  Not sure which is worse though: cheesy pop music or bad rock music (e.g. Nickelback, Creed).   At least the former can be listened to with my kids without much offense.


----------



## LaCuffia

Whitigir said:


> Please Share me some EDM folks ! I am in the mood for it today



Try some Boards of Canada or Aphex Twin.   Not proper EDM, but what some call IDM.   "I" stands for "intelligent."


----------



## Shure or bust (Jul 6, 2017)




----------



## LaCuffia

I believe the military/CIA just found its best torture tactic....make the captive listen to this soundtrack.


----------



## Shure or bust

LaCuffia said:


> I believe the military/CIA just found its best torture tactic....make the captive listen to this soundtrack.



The terrible Vietnamese? lol


----------



## Shure or bust (Jul 6, 2017)




----------



## LaCuffia

Awesome...are these guys available for weddings and birthday parties?


----------



## Shure or bust (Jul 6, 2017)

Do Boards of Canada or Aphex Twin perform at the local garbage dump? IDM, more like RDM! dumb Dance Music lmao


----------



## Whitigir

Shure or bust said:


> Do Boards of Canada or Aphex Twin perform at the local garbage dump? IDM, more like RDM! dumb Dance Music lmao


Lol, I can't make fun of any music that I can't comprehend....but I can say that I couldn't even tolerate 30 seconds of it


----------



## Shure or bust




----------



## LaCuffia

First of all, using the word "dumb" like that is ignorant and insensitive.  Retardation is a disability and afflicts many people.

Second, you guys seem more into mainstream music and might not have the patience for complex stuff like that.  Those acts are highly acclaimed (in the UK and all over the world) for their artistic and non-conventional styles.   In fact, Aphex Twin is considered one the most influential electronic artists of all time.  

But you can go back to listening to Pit Bull or DJ Tiesto or any other soulless, mind-numbing EDM.


----------



## Shure or bust




----------



## LaCuffia

Shure or bust said:


>



You just proved my point.

Cheesy Ibiza party music. 

Anyway I suspect our posts will be deleted by the mods very soon.


----------



## Shure or bust

Only the mainstream use the term "EDM". Your in denial! Its a classic and isn't crap like today's music.


----------



## Shure or bust




----------



## Shure or bust




----------



## Shure or bust

LaCuffia said:


> You just proved my point.
> 
> Cheesy Ibiza party music.
> 
> Anyway I suspect our posts will be deleted by the mods very soon.



If you want I have a music list with the greatest musicians ever with 1000+ names. But you might be too mainstream to handle it. Only instruments and vocals. No edm allowed.


----------



## LaCuffia

Spare us, man....Prisoner of Love?    I don't need to understand the full lyrics to hear that this is just corny, auto-tuned pop music.   This is not art.  It's bubble gum.


----------



## LaCuffia

Shure or bust said:


> If you want I have a music list with the greatest musicians ever with 1000+ names. But you might be too mainstream to handle it. Only instruments and vocals. No edm allowed.



I don't listen to EDM, or that much electronic music at all.  No point in going back and forth anymore.  The videos you posted amply prove the type of music you listen to...and it's not for me.


----------



## Shure or bust

I listen to everything honestly. Usually I go through phases. I hunt for the greatest musicians in every genre no matter the language.


----------



## bearFNF

Aphex Twin wasn't too bad I will add it to my list.
Boards of Canada...well...after I woke back up, when it put me to sleep, it will not be going on the list.
Must need chemical or alcohol help to listen to it. It's toooooo slooooooowww. Not for me I guess.

Well anyway, Knife Party Resistance or Infected Mushrroms Kafkaf are more my speed.

Wish I had my 009's to listen to right now.


----------



## Rossliew

You guys need some Godflesh...


----------



## bearFNF

Rossliew said:


> You guys need some Godflesh...



What's a good start?


----------



## Jones Bob

Something a little Asian. Something a little Pop. Something a little Punk. Something a little Rock. Something to have fun dancing to at a live show.

Shonen Knife from Osaka Japan. The singer started the band in 1981.


----------



## LaCuffia

Hey at least there is some energy and rawness to it.  Not like that over produced pop dreck from prior posts. 

You want to hear a legit girl punk band - Sleater-Kinney.  Warpaint is good too but more dreamy, atmospheric rock.


----------



## Jones Bob (Jul 6, 2017)

Not much of a fan of Sleater-Kinney. Seen them a few time here in Portland..... Glad you like them. I'll check out Warpaint. Need to find some good new music.

If you get a chance to see a Shonen Knife show, don't pass it up. As Kurt Cobain said of SK: "When I finally got to see them live, I was transformed into a hysterical nine-year-old girl at a Beatles concert."

As for being legit Punk, on Shonen Knife's 2015 US tour, the warm up was CJ Ramone.


----------



## Rossliew

bearFNF said:


> What's a good start?



Streetcleaner for me. 

Pitchshifter- submit EP is good as well


----------



## wink

LaCuffia said:


> There seems to be a lot of Asian pop music fans on this forum.  Hey, whatever floats your boat.  I just can't get on with mainstream music in general - Celine Dion, Adele, Katy Perry, Ed Sheeran etc.  Dreadful.  Not sure which is worse though: cheesy pop music or bad rock music (e.g. Nickelback, Creed).   At least the former can be listened to with my kids without much offense.


----------



## Shure or bust

wink said:


>




Definently better than the shonen knife, aphex twin, and boards of Canada rubbish.


----------



## Shure or bust




----------



## LaCuffia

I don't know if you are posting these videos jokingly or not.  Cheesy. 

You want to listen to real contemporary rock music.  Here are some bands: Radiohead, The National, Spoon, Afghan Whigs, Queens of the Stone Age, PJ Harvey, Blur, The Verve, Elbow, Doves, Manic Street Preachers, etc. Just to name a few in one genre (indie rock). Of course, it might be too original or alternative for your ears.  And your next post will be - "I listened to some of them and it's rubbish!"    You would be in the minority in that opinion.  No Top 40 pop chart stuff.

Keep listening to Asian karaoke music.  

And to keep on topic - Stax rules!


----------



## arnaud

Not sure I should cry or laugh listening to some of these popsch songs in a thread about high end stat gear ! Please, some respect for the transducers lol .


----------



## xantus (Jul 7, 2017)

these guys are edm with soul




youtube doesn't even do them justice... I have most of their vinyl


----------



## Whitigir

arnaud said:


> Not sure I should cry or laugh listening to some of these popsch songs in a thread about high end stat gear ! Please, some respect for the transducers lol .


We are the potatoes in your avatar


----------



## Shure or bust

Your view is ignorant regarding other music genres and what is good. Its laughable because you listen to top 40 indie rock crap and are in denial. Ignorance is bliss I guess. You act like the top 40 of indie rock or any other genre besides pop is good. Please don't listen to other music genres. You'll embarrass yourself! indie rock is dead. I'd take Hard rock and progressive rock over indie rock any day.


----------



## Shure or bust




----------



## LaCuffia

Shure or bust said:


> Your view is ignorant regarding other music genres and what is good. Its laughable because you listen to top 40 indie rock crap and are in denial. Ignorance is bliss I guess. You act like the top 40 of indie rock or any other genre besides pop is good. Please don't listen to other music genres. You'll embarrass yourself! indie rock is dead. I'd take Hard rock and progressive rock over indie rock any day.



Dude it's not all I listen to...jazz, progressive, classic rock, folk, post-rock, as well. I was just naming bands in one genre.  None of those bands are "top 40" so you don't know what you are taking about.  And, no, Kenny G is not real jazz.  I know you'll say jazz is lame or whatever. You wouldn't know about the greats I suppose - Coltrane, Mingus, Andrew Hill, Eric Dolphy, Oliver Nelson, Duke Ellington, Duke Pearson, etc.

Don't make assumptions about what I like. In contrast, you post videos of what you like.  And it's an insult to Stax, lol.


----------



## Rossliew

I love death metal, black metal, industrial, doom metal, grind core, mandopop, canto pop.....


----------



## Jones Bob (Jul 7, 2017)

arnaud said:


> Not sure I should cry or laugh listening to some of these popsch songs in a thread about high end stat gear ! Please, some respect for the transducers lol .



Well STAX are made in Japan, after all. Maybe they were voiced with this music during R&D? 

Where in Japan are you located Arnaud? Shonen Knife is playing a rare Japanese gig in a Tokyo club tonight (07/08). Go see them if it is near. Will add 10 years to your life, guaranteed.


----------



## Rossliew

Top of the World


----------



## Shure or bust

I never could get into jazz music. I listened to the greats, from the early years to today. I prefer classical music over jazz. To each there own. At least it's not Rap or what's on the radio.


----------



## wink

arnaud said:


> Not sure I should cry or laugh listening to some of these popsch songs in a thread about high end stat gear ! Please, some respect for the transducers lol .






...


----------



## MayorDomino

I read some where on Head-fi that a SRM-006tII cant power a SR 404 to loud levels, i think he said max volume on the pot was only moderately loud, can anyone confirm/deny this, thanks.


----------



## LaCuffia

MayorDomino said:


> I read some where on Head-fi that a SRM-006tII cant power a SR 404 to loud levels, i think he said max volume on the pot was only moderately loud, can anyone confirm/deny this, thanks.


The person must have serious hearing problems. I had a 404LE with an older SRM-T1, which is essentially the same as a 006, and there was no issue with volume.


----------



## JimL11

Agreed.  A number of people have specifically recommended the SRM-T1 series (which includes the 006) for driving the Lambdas.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

bmichels said:


> With my A&K SP1000 received today, my *portable battery operated Stax set-up *is now complete   .   Ready to go....



Very nice, could you share how the Kingsound M-3 performances with the SR-009 ?


----------



## bmichels

h1f1add1cted said:


> Very nice, could you share how the Kingsound M-3 performances with the SR-009 ?



Of course the SR009 do not sound as good as with my BHSE but... it still the M-3 is surprisely good for it's size and price. Definitively a very good solution that surprised all my friends who heard it.


----------



## Whitigir

bmichels said:


> Of course the SR009 do not sound as good as with my BHSE but... it still the M-3 is surprisely good for it's size and price. Definitively a very good solution that surprised all my friends who heard it.


You are not afraid of burning out your diaphgrams aren't you ?


----------



## mulveling

Yeah..."surprisingly good for the size" doesn't hold a lot of weight when potential damage to the 009 is in play. I would just get some Koss PortaPros man.


----------



## paradoxper (Jul 8, 2017)

Hey, better than iBuds, that's something. No matter the risks. This is the Summit.


----------



## MayorDomino

LaCuffia said:


> The person must have serious hearing problems. I had a 404LE with an older SRM-T1, which is essentially the same as a 006, and there was no issue with volume.



Thought so. thanks.


----------



## bmichels

mulveling said:


> Yeah..."surprisingly good for the size" doesn't hold a lot of weight when potential damage to the 009 is in play. I would just get some Koss PortaPros man.



what potential damages ? why do you think the Kingsound is not appropriate for the SR009 ? I understood that there are compatible....


----------



## Thaudiophile

Does anyone sell a used Sr omega?


----------



## Whitigir

Thaudiophile said:


> Does anyone sell a used Sr omega?


Go around classified ads, you will eventually see it pop out here and there


----------



## Thaudiophile

Thanks I am very interested in that headphone


----------



## JimL11

bmichels said:


> what potential damages ? why do you think the Kingsound is not appropriate for the SR009 ? I understood that there are compatible....



All the modern Stax amps have three "protection" features in their circuit to prevent damage to the diaphragm if the worst happens.  First, the outputs have 5.1 kilohm resistors in series with the output devices, second, the bias supply uses 0.1 uf caps to limit the amount of energy in the supply, and third, the bias has a 5 megohm resistor after the last capacitor to limit the amount of current that can flow into the diaphragm.  The Woo WEE has been "dinged" for not having the last feature (and possibly for having large capacity caps as well, which are not needed for the bias supply).  I don't know specifically about the Kingsound M3, however back in 2013 Kevin Gilmore looked at an M10 and here is what he said (Kingsound Head-Fi thread, post #435):

"wow, just wow and I don't mean that in a good way.
http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/m10.jpg

might as well be a tube amp. 47k plate resistors and .01uf  wima output caps.
STD1nk60 mosfet outputs. similar to sennheiser hev70.
no wonder there is no bass. 588 volt bias which does not match the specs.
lots of places in the middle to change resistors to get any bias voltage you want.
R108,R141,R142 in series directly off of B+, C122 directly to ground at output jack.
DO NOT EVER PLUG A SR007 or SR009 into this thing."

Also, here is spritzer (Kingsound thread, post 451)
"That cap after the ballast string is a very bad idea with modern Stax models."

Incidentally, according to spritzer the 2013 M10 circuit appears to be a clone of the Stax SRM1 MkI (circa 1979), the M20 appears to be based on a Stax DIY tube circuit from 1968, so who knows what ancient circuit the M3 is based on?


----------



## Whitigir

Thank you sir! Such detailed posts and efforts to dig them out .  Let's not stop the guy from his endeavors


----------



## JimL11 (Jul 9, 2017)

Another post from the Kingsound thread, this time on the M20 by Kevin Gilmore (post #554):

"m20 also has a capacitor direcly on the output of the bias line.
do not use with stax headphones."

So that appears to be a common engineering deficit of the Kingsound amps.  Honestly, I'd rather not risk it.


----------



## statfi

Anyone have a pair of burnt 009's they would be willing to sell for cheap?  Really.  I want to tear them apart and do things I don't want to do to my good 009s, at least until I know how to do it without damaging anything.  PM's welcome.


----------



## Whitigir

statfi said:


> Anyone have a pair of burnt 009's they would be willing to sell for cheap?  Really.  I want to tear them apart and do things I don't want to do to my good 009s, at least until I know how to do it without damaging anything.  PM's welcome.


Lol, I think if someone keeps on being so braver with their 009, you will hear good news soon


----------



## VandyMan (Jul 11, 2017)

The risk is only at high volume, as I understand it. I'm not likely to hook up my 009s to my KS M-10, but it is not like plugging them directly into the wall or something. 

My KS headphones should be as vulnerable as the 009 to being damaged, but they are fine after something like four years of use.


----------



## Quixote79

JimL11 said:


> Another post from the Kingsound thread, this time on the M20 by Kevin Gilmore (post #554):
> 
> "m20 also has a capacitor direcly on the output of the bias line.
> do not use with stax headphones."
> ...


so why you not fix the same when you want to do better T1 at other site? you not notice in T1 and now big deal ? you not like Kinsound?


----------



## JimL11 (Jul 11, 2017)

Actually, I did not notice this problem initially in the T1.  My bad.  However once it was pointed out to me, I submitted an addendum a couple weeks ago that fixes the problem, and should be published in a future issue of AudioXpress.  I do not know if Kingsound has fixed the problem with their amps, which Kevin Gilmore pointed out a couple years ago, nor do I know if they have recalled their earlier amps to fix it.  Do you know of any recall?

I would also point out that there is a difference between someone suggesting DIY improvements, and a manufacturer who is making equipment for profit.  However, if Kingsound did not do a recall to fix the problem, then, no, I do not like Kingsound.


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 12, 2017)

My gawd, Stax 009 and Grounded Grid with these tubes and it bass is miraculously done for classical, instrumental and bolero ! I couldn't stop telling myself how I had been mistaken Stax for being lack of bass from a simple myth for too long.  The Huge expansive soundstage and yet Bass from further away is still full of authorities!

@/Purk@ ! You, my friend, brought Stax into my world, and I couldn't give you enough credits for that


----------



## Quixote79

JimL11 said:


> Actually, I did not notice this problem initially in the T1.  My bad.  However once it was pointed out to me, I submitted an addendum a couple weeks ago that fixes the problem, and should be published in a future issue of AudioXpress.  I do not know if Kingsound has fixed the problem with their amps, which Kevin Gilmore pointed out a couple years ago, nor do I know if they have recalled their earlier amps to fix it.  Do you know of any recall?
> 
> I would also point out that there is a difference between someone suggesting DIY improvements, and a manufacturer who is making equipment for profit.  However, if Kingsound did not do a recall to fix the problem, then, no, I do not like Kingsound.


LOL you not notice, even then Gillnore point out years before - and sudenly a big deal?
what good is improve if the amp still burns headphones bad??? LOL


----------



## statfi

Bass impact and soundstage clarity of the 009s are improved by increased clamping as well as better electronics.  The sky's the limit!  I am still hoping to hear from any folks who can afford the rubber bands to have tried greater clamping force with the 009’s (or even other models).  Now, I cannot imagine listening to stock 009s myself.

I recently “discovered” https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/stax-sr-009-electrostatic-headphones.13431/reviews:

kendetamas says “Cons - lows are not that powerful” but mentions comfort as a “Pro”.

Elrondo says “Cons - lacks the last bit of bass power and dynamics”

ASR prefers the SR-007 to the 009’s because they are “more natural- & authentic-sounding in the mid-range with a fuller sound and heavier, more physical-feeling bass. Or to put it another way, the OII had more impactful drums & bass lines, heavier guitars, and more vocal presence.”

Increased clamping force addresses the sonic weaknesses of the 009’s mentioned above, as I reported previously.  The tradeoff is “comfort”.  Stax, appropriately, takes comfort very seriously, and, it seems, the result has been trade-offs that do not give the absolute best sound quality available from other brilliant aspects of their design. 

I *believe* that a simple but correct explanation for the sonic improvements of increased clamping force is related to Newton’s third law that “every action (force) in nature there is an equal and opposite reaction”.  When the diaphragm moves it generates forces both due to Newton’s second law (force equals mass time acceleration) and to compression of air resulting in minute motions of the ear cups, which ideally should be stationary.  Increased clamping force allows the listener’s skull to be a better “mechanical ground” for the ear cups, allowing them to be more stationary.  I have also verified that more mass added to the ear cups helps in this regard.  So, improved sonics with increased clamping force and more mass  negatively impact comfort, leaving the optimum solution in the realm of personal taste.  Apparently, my taste leans more toward better sonics.  I suspect that others will have similar leanings, but would love to hear (read) about that.


----------



## Thaudiophile

Even for electrostats, SR 009 is very confusing, the myth that it has no bass is basically created because most people have heard it on low end Stax amps.I will admit that I thought the Bass was terrible on SR 009 myself.If what people on this page said is true then SR 009 is surely  a very underrated headphone...


----------



## Whitigir

It is underrated for sure, but that is because the proper amplifier for it is not so easy to come by.  The most quality and commercially available would be Blue Hawaii Special Edition.  Otherwise, you would need to go the DIY route, and ofcourse is not easy.  You can commercial it built though.


----------



## JimL11 (Jul 12, 2017)

Quixote79 said:


> LOL you not notice, even then Gillnore point out years before - and sudenly a big deal?
> what good is improve if the amp still burns headphones bad??? LOL



Yep, I screwed up, but to repeat myself, I have addressed that.  It's a really simple mod, just insert a 4.7 megohm 600 volt or better rated resistor between the circuit board and the output socket.  So with this feature, no worries about burning headphones.  This safety feature was introduced by Stax, but it was done after the T1 was released, and well before the M10 and M20, which, as far as I know, have never been modified to include this.  Thus, the M10 and M20 still have the potential to burn headphones - but for some reason that doesn't seem to bother you as much as my missing it in the T1, which makes me think you're a troll.  But since you're such an expert, I assume you also noticed another safety feature that the M10 and M20 did not have when they were released?


----------



## Jones Bob

Whitigir said:


> My gawd, Stax 009 and Grounded Grid with these tubes and it bass is miraculously done for classical, instrumental and bolero ! I couldn't stop telling myself how I had been mistaken Stax for being lack of bass from a simple myth for too long.  The Huge expansive soundstage and yet Bass from further away is still full of authorities!
> 
> @/Purk@ ! You, my friend, brought Stax into my world, and I couldn't give you enough credits for that



Which of the many EL34s in your collection were you using that gave you this bliss?


----------



## Whitigir

Jones Bob said:


> Which of the many EL34s in your collection were you using that gave you this bliss?



I am tired, worn out, and done with looking for good and affordable NOS.  I am sticking with J&J 6CA7 , the J&J EL34 is also very good if you buy Apex matched quad.


----------



## Quixote79

JimL11 said:


> Yep, I screwed up, but to repeat myself, I have addressed that.  It's a really simple mod, just insert a 4.7 megohm 600 volt or better rated resistor between the circuit board and the output socket.  So with this feature, no worries about burning headphones.  This safety feature was introduced by Stax, but it was done after the T1 was released, and well before the M10 and M20, which, as far as I know, have never been modified to include this.  Thus, the M10 and M20 still have the potential to burn headphones - but for some reason that doesn't seem to bother you as much as my missing it in the T1, which makes me think you're a troll.  But since you're such an expert, I assume you also noticed another safety feature that the M10 and M20 did not have when they were released?


has any had burned headphones using kinsound?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Thaudiophile said:


> Even for electrostats, SR 009 is very confusing, the myth that it has no bass is basically created because most people have heard it on low end Stax amps.I will admit that I thought the Bass was terrible on SR 009 myself.If what people on this page said is true then SR 009 is surely  a very underrated headphone...



I actually find that my SR-009s have more bass than my SR-007Mk1s. Deeper, punchier with tighter bass. I love both headphones, but prefer the flagships.


----------



## Pokemonn

MacedonianHero said:


> I actually find that my SR-009s have more bass than my SR-007Mk1s. Deeper, punchier with tighter bass. I love both headphones, but prefer the flagships.



seems Jude-san and Tyll and Bob Katz prefer 007 over 009. anyway both headphone are okay for me...


----------



## MacedonianHero (Jul 12, 2017)

Pokemonn said:


> seems Jude-san and Tyll and Bob Katz prefer 007 over 009. anyway both headphone are okay for me...



Actually I'm pretty sure that Jude prefers the SR-009...as does one of our Columnists (recording engineer) on Headphone.Guru who's worked with Michael Jackson.   I rarely seem to agree with Bob Katz FWIW as well.


----------



## Pokemonn (Jul 12, 2017)

fyi...


jude said:


> Especially with the SR-007 Mk1 (*which I've been using more and more lately*), the bass is more present than with the Utopia, and the treble smoother and more refined, and, overall, more resolving. Both the SR-009 and SR-007 Mk1 play with beautiful body and drive through the Cooter--more than any other amp I've yet heard with them.



 Tyll's comment on 007 and 009
The problem I have with the SR-007 and SR-009 is that the 009 is too bright, and the 007 is too rolled off—fireworks or murky water seems the choice. I previously gushed over the 009, but having had the opportunity to listen to them side by side has me preferring the more subdued character of the 007. Even though it's a bit too low in level, *I find the 007 treble response more articulate and smooth than the 009. *

Such were my thoughts untill Bob showed up.

Bob Katz, world renown mastering engineer, came to Big Sound armed with—among _many_ other things—his personal pair of modified Stax SR-007 headphones. When I plugged them in my jaw dropped—_this_ is what I want to hear from an electrostatic can. Brilliantly articulate and fast, but smooth as a baby's buttocks. The modification he used is fairly simple to implement; instructions can be found in this HeadCase thread. Yes please, I'll take the modified SR-007 all day long.

Read more at https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-finale-headphones


and bob's recommended HPs such as LCD and PM3 are very nice HPs IMO.


----------



## paradoxper

However, Birgir finds the 009 to be a piece of..

Rely on your own ears -- whichever works for you.


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> Rely on your own ears -- whichever works for you.


Thank you!


----------



## JimL11 (Jul 12, 2017)

I prefer the 007 Mk II with port mod to either the 007 Mk I or the 009, but that's just me.  I can see (hear) why some would prefer any one of the three to the others.


----------



## MacedonianHero (Jul 12, 2017)

Pokemonn said:


> fyi...
> 
> 
> Tyll's comment on 007 and 009
> ...




I'd read it again...it doesn't show preference of the 007 over the 009. I love (and own) both. But I listen to my 009s and Utopias certainly more often.

I find the 009s very picky of your source as well. With a bight source they will sound bright, but get that right and they will reward you for the effort.


----------



## mulveling (Jul 12, 2017)

Also, remember that Tyll first listened to the 009 with a loaner Head-Amp BHSE when he gushed about it; on 2nd listen he only had an inferior electrostatic amp (at least, inferior to the BHSE) and then started backpedaling like Lance Armstrong on reverse steroids. He's gotten pretty good at backpedaling over the years.


----------



## Pokemonn (Jul 13, 2017)

but mulveling you actually said 009 on BHSE sounded bit bright...lol


BHSE (Amperex/Holland EL34 XF4/XF5, RK50 pot); pulling from long memory on this one): More detailed than even the Carbon, but a bit brighter too. Gorgeous tube mids. Insanely good for the 007 Mk I -- this is the asterick on my dislike for that headphone; I REALLY like them when paired with a BHSE. But I still like the 009 better, hah (even if a bit bright in this pairing). I would rate this amp as slightly better overall than my Carbon (but again, from memory).


----------



## Thaudiophile

SR 009 is still at the top of Tylls "wall of fame", he clearly considers 009  as  the best headphone.


----------



## mulveling (Jul 13, 2017)

Pokemonn said:


> but mulveling you actually said 009 on BHSE sounded bit bright...lol
> 
> 
> BHSE (Amperex/Holland EL34 XF4/XF5, RK50 pot); pulling from long memory on this one): More detailed than even the Carbon, but a bit brighter too. Gorgeous tube mids. Insanely good for the 007 Mk I -- this is the asterick on my dislike for that headphone; I REALLY like them when paired with a BHSE. But I still like the 009 better, hah (even if a bit bright in this pairing). I would rate this amp as slightly better overall than my Carbon (but again, from memory).


Sure, fair enough, I used to think the BHSE was slightly bright. Still rated it better than the KGSShv Carbon. That was a long time ago with an NAD M51 as source, and yet still I clearly loved that BHSE/009 pairing. Now I own that same BHSE, with my own quad of Amperex, my own 009, and a Yggdrasil (avoiding the USB input); it's even better now, with absolutely no brightness -- dead neutral. I just end up loving the BHSE/009 more and more with time & ownership, not less.


----------



## Pokemonn

Okay...


----------



## Pokemonn (Jul 13, 2017)

Thaudiophile said:


> SR 009 is still at the top of Tylls "wall of fame", he clearly considers 009  as  the best headphone.



actually Tyll got insulted about he raved 009 before(below link lol) at other site. just he can't cancel what he said before i guess.

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-stax-sr-009


----------



## Thaudiophile

He could have removed SR 009 from his wall of fame IF he didn't like it after reviewing utopia, in Sonoma accoustics electrostatic headphones review, he praised SR 009 again and that big sound event was 2 years ago I guess? It is heavily possible that he has changed his opinion again on 009s and now he likes them. But it is just a theory.


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 13, 2017)

Pokemonn said:


> actually Tyll got insulted about he raved 009 before(below link lol) at other site. just he can't cancel what he said before i guess.
> 
> https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-stax-sr-009




Well, Tyll disliked 009, then liked it.  I knew many people who had done the same through Stax amps and then moving to KG amps to discover another world with it.  The only one who know KG amplifier enough and would prefer modded 007 over 009 is Birgir, and even Kg himself mentioned that 009 is a clear winner.  You are entitled to your own opinion and ears ofcourse, but doesn't mean you can try and force it into others.

I love 009, many others and so Stax , hence its is Stax Flagship.  The point I would bring up here is that, many people would just keep farting out of their butts about this myth that "Stax has no bass", which is very very dumb


----------



## MacedonianHero

Whitigir said:


> Well, Tyll disliked 009, then liked it.  I knew many people who had done the same through Stax amps and then moving to KG amps to discover another world with it.  The only one who know KG amplifier enough and would prefer modded 007 over 009 is Birgir, and even Kg himself mentioned that 009 is a clear winner.  You are entitled to your own opinion and ears ofcourse, but doesn't mean you can try and force it into others.
> 
> I love 009, many others and so Stax , hence its is Stax Flagship.  The point I would bring up here is that, many people would just keep farting out of their butts about this myth that "Stax has no bass", which is very very dumb



Agreed, in fact with my current setup with the LL2 (and previous KGSSHV amps), my SR-009s have plenty of bass, but it is neutral and never more than called upon from the recording. Those looking for north of neutral bass better look elsewhere. In fact, they SR-009s have some of the very best quality bass I've heard from any headphone...period.


----------



## Pokemonn (Jul 13, 2017)

Whitigir said:


> Well, Tyll disliked 009, then liked it.



i didnt know that...Thank you Whitigir for your input! btw i accutually like 009 in fact.


----------



## Failed Engineer

I think most of the people who prefer the 007, specifically the MK1 and MK2.9 port modded, readily acknowledge that others could prefer the 009, but the 009 crowd generally says if you prefer the 007 versions it's only because your source is not up to snuff.  I very much disagree and I think that narrative is illogical and newbies to the TOTL Stax's should be aware of the alternative opinion.  I currently use a cheap vintage heavily refurbished/modded R2R dac which I think is better than the Yggy, but even with the Yggy I previously owned, I definitely prefer the 007.  And the amps I've owned are a maxed out KGSSHV built by Birgir and now a Carbon by a very respected builder.


----------



## JimL11

Whitigir said:


> Well, Tyll disliked 009, then liked it.  I knew many people who had done the same through Stax amps and then moving to KG amps to discover another world with it.  The only one who know KG amplifier enough and would prefer modded 007 over 009 is Birgir, and even Kg himself mentioned that 009 is a clear winner.  You are entitled to your own opinion and ears ofcourse, but doesn't mean you can try and force it into others.
> 
> I love 009, many others and so Stax , hence its is Stax Flagship.  The point I would bring up here is that, many people would just keep farting out of their butts about this myth that "Stax has no bass", which is very very dumb



I wouldn't be quite so dogmatic about the 007 vs. 009.  At a recent Albuquerque meet where a number of people listened to both through my BHSE with NOS Mullard tubes, the preference was split about half and half between the 009 NS 007 MK II with port mod.  Bob Katz greatly preferred his 007 Mk II with port mod to the 009, granted that he listened to both via a KGSS[RE].  I don't recall Kevin Gilmore expressing a preference between the 007 and 009, although with so many thread posts here and elsewhere, I could well have missed it.  At this level, I view the choice as more personal preference than better or worse.


----------



## hpeter

arnaud said:


> Not sure I should cry or laugh listening to some of these popsch songs in a thread about high end stat gear ! Please, some respect for the transducers lol .


  what he said  +1


----------



## Whitigir

Yeah, I do agree that preferences would be the ultimate decisive factor for every one, and why I would always urge them to audition it themselves before deciding to purchase.  However, we all agree that it is about time to bust this myth about Stax and bass  , do we ?


----------



## mulveling (Jul 13, 2017)

I'm very happy with my 009 low end, but some girls...er audiophiles always want more down there 

In the end I couldn't come around to the MDR-R10 because of its poor bass (even the bass "heavy" ones; the bass-light ones were just comical); I've had no such problem with well-amped Stax (especially the 009). Now contrast this to the new $2K+ Sony dynamic, which has _too much bass_, and doesn't sound very good.


----------



## hpeter

..it´s nature of man to repeat same old nonsense again


----------



## Whitigir

We are just too old....LoL!


----------



## MayorDomino

Does anyone know of a Stax used price guide anywhere? thanks.


----------



## wink

Whitigir said:


> We are just too old....LoL!


You talkin' about me too...?




 ...


----------



## JimL11

MayorDomino said:


> Does anyone know of a Stax used price guide anywhere? thanks.



AFAIK, closest thing is to do an eBay search of completed items plus Head-Fi archives of sold items.


----------



## bmichels

So, here is my end-game trans...portable set-up


----------



## LaCuffia

So the portable set up is so you can walk around the home with the 009?

Not sure how using the 009 on, for example, a train or airplane, or even walking around a city, is ideal.


----------



## Whitigir

LaCuffia said:


> So the portable set up is so you can walk around the home with the 009?
> 
> Not sure how using the 009 on, for example, a train or airplane, or even walking around a city, is ideal.



No point in walking around with a stack of devices.  This is the reason why my walk-around system is simply Wm1z and Utopia


----------



## LaCuffia

You can just use a little wagon to carry everything and a generator to power it up.  

Funny thing is that it's probably not as strange as it sounds in the context of the crazy audiophile world.


----------



## astrostar59

I will post in the Can-Jam page, but here's my thoughts on the 009 v the rest at the show. MY thoughts YMMV.

Can-Jam
My impressions from Saturday on amps and headphones on demo. Sent on Phone so may be some spelling.

My point of reference is my own Stax 009, Carbon amp fed by an Audio Note NOS DAC 5. I am totally open to any system I.e if it sounds great IMO I will say so. I took 3 tracks that I know well- Alex Morphe, Rammstien , Beyoncé as it reduces confusion (for me) and I have points of reference. I got access for 15-20 minutes on each demo. I play quite loud.

Stax 009 + Stax T8000
This is better than my old 717, warmer and smoother, good dynamic nice treble detail. But IMO not better than my KGSSHv Sanyo. It doesn't quite rid the 009 of its sterile nature that has always bugged me on older Stax amps. yes it is better / an improvement but not far enough. so price seems a bit high for the performance.
Note I had to listen to Diana Krall and Peter Gabriel here as no USB port. DAC was Ayre I believe.

Stax 009 + Trilogy Audio Amplifier
This was introduced as a ground up new design with all tube line stage. It sounded better than the T8000 but not by much. Nice enough but not excited yet. I get a wow moment at home on my Carbon. Not hearing that hear. The soundstage is nothing special. Looking in the top grill out has 6 tube set horizontally. It was not as warm as my Carbon on the case / top. Think it costs 5K. Nice to see a UK product, and I wanted to be wowed but not happening.
No USB port so listened to Diana Krall and some Jazz.
DAC was Esoteric K-01

Stax 009 + BHSE
Right there. Wow moment. Full sound, fast, dynamic, kicking bass detail, wide soundstage. Sounds superb played loud and gone is the 009 coldness or slight synthetic character. Could have sat there all day and felt I was in familiar territory to my home system.
Used my music and the DAC was Halo Spring. Happy.

LCD4 + Headamp GSX
Moved immediately to this from BHSE and same DAC. Great dynamics. Kicks harder in the upper bass esp on drums, slightly darker as expected. Very different way to present the music. Less plankton more midrange body. I can't fault these 2 not sure if I am already to converted by Stats, but seriously would like to own both if I had the means. I think the LCD4 is more forgiving than the 009 which will help it fit to more front ends IMO. Anyway very nice, but not selling my 009s.
My tracks used at the HeadAmp stand.

CHORD + Upscaler + LCD4
Talked direct to Mike at this stand! The LCD was fed direct out the DAVE. Good sound here, the DAC is obviously v good. Fast, that wow soundstage of the DAVE. It was clean and not digital or edgy. I found it very close to the Halo and GSX combo. I am unsure if it was any better. The DAVE was at 0db volume,maybe needs a bit more to get the LCD4s to rock.it was loud an ought but senses some compression v the GSX combo. If it was me, I would get the DAVE but allow for an amp on top, at least with these HPs. So came away from that thinking the combo can go better bur obviously that is more money.
I uses my tracks on this.

HiFi Man Shangri-lLa
Got right on this, no wait.
From the LCD4 and CHORD this sounded very different,more like my 009s. immediately noticed it was bright. I can accept this if it is dead smooth in its delivery, but it wasn't. Ignoring the insane cost of this system for a moment and listening to how it sounds only. It is back to a cold and sharp stat sound that reminded me of my early Lambdas. I got through the dance track ok, but into Beyoncé it all got too shrill and distracting. Details are there, decent dynamics and tube midrange from those 300Bs, but it lost IMO many of the strengths I heard on my SET 300B speaker amps I was disappointed TBH. This is or should be best in the game, but I am not hearing it. My tracks and DAC was CHORD DAVE.

Focal Utopia + Felix Audio 4 Tube amp
Wow, this sounds good. Great drive and lots of energy. I immediately liked this system. Lots of detail but linear and smooth, very organic. The dance track was pumping, nothing wrong here. Beyoncé was full and sounded real and placed in the soundstage, no vocal edges or problems. I found I was very relaxed with this setup, and could listen for hours. It had it all there, nothing missing just not false or synthetic sounding. I spoke to the owner and the company is in Poland and is new to selling in the UK. Then I asked how much is the amp, and he said £850. Wow. That is a superb example of top sound for real world money. IMO it beat the Shangri-La on sonics. Sorry about that but I feel I can say IMO that is what I was hearing, 
Didn't recognise the DAC but it was sub 2k I believe. I used my tracks.

HE-1
So excited finally to hear this.
Totally personal space and 1 guy operating the T&A CDP big complaint here, I couldn't use my tracks and the scrappy selection of music was very poor. Some were CDRs with no sleeve note. I had to pick 2 tracks by Alannis Moresetti and some Bach orchestral. The HE-1 was obviously very smooth. Soundstage was about the same as my 009.  Those tubes are all good IMO, the whole sound was very real and balanced no digital feel or lack of realism. The sound was a diversion from any other top HPs I have heard. It may be a bit slow or thicker than what I am used to, as in fuller body in the mids. I would need to hear more to be sure it can rock and I wonder if it is a bit dark?
Shame Sennheiser didn't allow a USB stick, or at least have more CDs to choose from. So I came away a bit annoyed / deflated TBH. I has no feel to kill my credit card.

Sum up
Great show, loved it. Not too loud for good demos, not too crowded. Even saw Jules. Pity Woo or the Abyss were not there. 

So the 009 and BHSE still my favourite at the show and v close to my Carbon / on par. I know it can sound better than at the show with NOS tubes, and maybe even better DAC. I need another go at the HE-1. My first hearing of the LCD4 and Utopia was an eye opener and if I didn't have my 009a would be happy with either of those partnered with a good amp. They do things a bit differently to stats and I wouldn't like to claim which is more real / accurate but TBH I could Live with either.

Anyway my thoughts and probably old news to some here, but hope somebody found it useful.

As a note, I bought the Sony SE MHR5 at the show to use on the train with my iPod. And for 190 quid they are really good. Very light, smooth and great deep bass. Probably best on pop and dance material as not so transparent, but go loud with no harshness. Wish I had heard the TOTL model but ran our of time.


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## Thaudiophile

It's a shame that Orpheus and Shangri-la cost 50k, SR 009 seems like much better value while offering about similar performance...


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## mulveling

Great impressions! Thanks man.


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## Whitigir

Thaudiophile said:


> It's a shame that Orpheus and Shangri-la cost 50k, SR 009 seems like much better value while offering about similar performance...


I have said this many times, and I will repeat again.  With 009, you have choices to match and make your system, such as DAC, cables...amps....not with Sangrila nor HE1


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## JimL11 (Jul 16, 2017)

astrostar59 said:


> I will post in the Can-Jam page, but here's my thoughts on the 009 v the rest at the show. MY thoughts YMMV.
> 
> Can-Jam
> My impressions from Saturday on amps and headphones on demo. Sent on Phone so may be some spelling.
> ...



So, yet another demonstration that spending obscene amounts of money does not necessarily mean much better sound, or even, sometimes, any better sound.


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## Jones Bob

Nice write up! 
Do you recall the tubes being used in the BHSE?


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## paradoxper

Thanks, Julian. Without that impose of magic, I'm retiring.


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## Pokemonn

009 = end game... HF... RIP lol


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## yates7592

Thanks for the write up Julian, very detailed considering the time limits. Sounds like you had a great day.


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## Thaudiophile

This Z review guy basically craps on the omega headphones


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## XLR8

Pokemonn said:


> 009 = end game... HF... RIP lol


My wallet does not like you...


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## Pokemonn

Ha ha please don't worry. as technology(AI robot factory automation semiconductor etc) advanced, every gear(except hyped) will be cheapest.
even poorest man will own 009 like HPs in near future...
end of human era is near...


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## Whitigir (Jul 19, 2017)

Don't know about 12 years into the future, but 009 and BHSE is fairly affordable now....unless you can't build it yourself...hard to see people keep crying because technology's has advanced, human is not and complaint about prices ...you can have it for just a little more than SusVara lol.  The differences is that you can build BHSE...but neither Sr009 nor SusVara 

Semiconductor will be at their end of production, if KG has newer design, or else it will just get more expensive as parts became obsoleted


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## Pokemonn

yeah, when first VTR deck produced, it cost 3000$ but now it cost about 50$..;D  thing will go like that.
minor semiconductor will be reproduced when AI robot fully enters manufacturing.


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## guitardave

Since the L700's seem to be unobtainable in the US, I am just curious if I buy from Japan, I assume the headphones would be identical, and only the amp (maybe 323x?) would need a voltage converter from 100 to 120, correct?  I would like to buy them here but not having any luck finding them unfortunately...  I understand I can't get the warranty.


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## catscratch

Have you checked with Headamp? That's where I got mine. Granted, that was back in December.


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## Whitigir

My current state of Stax-009 world! Don't mind that Utopia...LOL, my Stax bass is straight out crazy, her performances is unbelievable, she drops my jaws literally every time.  That is bass alone, let alone other spectrums.  I listen to her for almost everything, movies, modern EDM, pops, soft metal.....YouTube....whatever the heck LOL!

My current favorite and will be for a while is JJ tubes! Awesome sound and soundstage.


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## mulveling

Rockin' setup, and beautiful amp! I've been warned away from JJ power tubes countless times (reliability), but the fat-bottle 6CA7 options are intriguing to me, since I have no experience there besides running the EH 6CA7 in a vintage Eico HF-87 several years ago (the EH 6CA7 was fairly bright but also very fast and dynamic).

Movies/TV on the 009 has got to be fairly awesome.


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## Whitigir

I am surprised that at CanjamLondon, some one thought BHSE + 009 is rivaling HE1


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## VandyMan

I love my BHSE + 009, but I find that hard to understand too. I've heard the HE-1 and I'd trade my setup for it in a heartbeat.



mulveling said:


> Movies/TV on the 009 has got to be fairly awesome.



Yes, they are! Sometimes it is almost like surround sound. I can't wait until I get the Smyth Realiser A-16. That should be totally amazing.


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## Ali-Pacha (Jul 21, 2017)

HE-1 are warmer, more relaxing, with more theatrical volume. 009 are faster, more sparkling, kick harder (BHSE + Mesa Boogie t00bz)
Both are not right tonally speaking. Rightest cans out there are Milos' HE90 clones. 007 are just boring with blocked nose and dzingy highs, 009 a bit too demonstrative and out of this world fake tone, HE1 too polite and too dark, with something sterile.

Deal with it 

Ali


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## Whitigir

Go get a SusVara , you can only win and win with it


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## Ali-Pacha

Susvara are HE6 done modern and wrong. No thanks 

Ali


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## Whitigir

Ali-Pacha said:


> Susvara are HE6 done modern and wrong. No thanks
> 
> Ali


back to beats then and start all over again


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## bmichels

VandyMan said:


> I love my BHSE + 009, but I find that hard to understand too. I've heard the HE-1 and I'd trade my setup for it in a heartbeat.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they are! Sometimes it is almost like surround sound. I can't wait until I get the Smyth Realiser A-16. That should be totally amazing.



wait until HeadAmp comes out end of this year with their new "all tube" design, that will top their BHSE....


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## wink

.... and take twice as long to complete.......


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## Whitigir

wink said:


> .... and take twice as long to complete.......



And twice or more as expensive


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## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> And twice or more as expensive



It was confirmed to me to be in the $ 10.000


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## Rossliew

Will just stick with my Carbon, thanks.


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## VandyMan

I'm saving for a baby HE-1, should such a thing ever become available.


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## bmichels

VandyMan said:


> I'm saving for a baby HE-1, should such a thing ever become available.



I was told at the CanJam HE-1 demo room that indeed a cheaper version without all the un-necessary stuff ( motorised tubes and pots...) is coming.


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## Whitigir

bmichels said:


> I was told at the CanJam HE-1 demo room that indeed a cheaper version without all the un-necessary stuff ( motorised tubes and pots...) is coming.



Yeah, and let me guess, $39,999.00 for the price , cheaper ofcourse


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## pham

The night is dark and full of terrors... but these _tubes _will burn them all away


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## hpeter

what night monsters hate most: long, thin & hot filaments.


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## Thaudiophile

Why isn't anyone comparing the new liquid lightning 2t to other electrostatic amplifiers like t2,kgsshv carbon  and bhse?


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## JimL11

AFAIK, the Liquid Lightning has not been for sale for some time.


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## bearFNF

There have been comparisons made but like JimL11 said the LL2 is no longer in production.

Long story short:
Personally I like both of them. My 007 MKII seems to like the LL2SS and brightens up a bit with it, they seem too dark and a little laid back on the BHSE.
The 009 likes either one, a little more edgy on the LL2SS perhaps.
I couldn't talk Alex into putting a  normal bias socket on my LL2 so I cant compare them with my Lambda NB. But the BHSE does a fantastic job with the LNB.
IMO, YMMV, etc...

You might search the BHSE or LL2 threads for the write-ups that have been done. mine included.


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## Thaudiophile

bearFNF said:


> There have been comparisons made but like JimL11 said the LL2 is no longer in production.
> 
> Long story short:
> Personally I like both of them. My 007 MKII seems to like the LL2SS and brightens up a bit with it, they seem too dark and a little laid back on the BHSE.
> ...


What about liquid lightning 2 tube version?like there are literally 2 reviews and no comparisons of it on the internet


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## bearFNF

Couldn't tell you much there, it's been way too long since I listened to it. But when I did, I bought the SS version mostly because I wanted the SS not due to any sound issues. FWIW


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## Thaudiophile

What about a fully upgraded Wes?


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## JimL11

Thaudiophile said:


> What about a fully upgraded Wes?


This was discussed a few months ago in this thread, do a search.  Bottom line, the consensus was the WES was not competitive with the BHSE.  Another indicator is that a used BHSE goes for close to the price of a new one, whereas a used WES goes for significantly less.


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## paradoxper

Does a WES even sell. Hmm.....


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## JimL11

paradoxper said:


> Does a WES even sell. Hmm.....


IIRC, a Woo WES went on eBay a few months ago for somewhere around $3000-3500.


----------



## paradoxper

JimL11 said:


> IIRC, a Woo WES went on eBay a few months ago for somewhere around $3000-3500.


Fair. However, I'm not quite sure I'd consider eBay an informed buyer's marketplace. It doesn't count.


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## Thaudiophile

paradoxper said:


> Fair. However, I'm not quite sure I'd consider eBay an informed buyer's marketplace. It doesn't count.


I have seen a lot of Wes for around 3000-4500$ around the internet.


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## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> Does a WES even sell. Hmm.....



That is funny....


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## JimL11

Thaudiophile said:


> I have seen a lot of Wes for around 3000-4500$ around the internet.



It's not just what people are asking for them, it's what they are actually selling for.  Used BHSEs sell at close to their new price.  WES doesn't.


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## Thaudiophile

JimL11 said:


> It's not just what people are asking for them, it's what they are actually selling for.  Used BHSEs sell at close to their new price.  WES doesn't.


I know that, i just hoped for a tube  amp that is under 5k and is on the level of bhse, looks i have to settle with a solid state.


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## JimL11

Thaudiophile said:


> I know that, i just hoped for a tube  amp that is under 5k and is on the level of bhse, looks i have to settle with a solid state.



If you can DIY, there are a couple choices.  Kevin Gilmore's Megatron is a tube design (with solid state current sources) which is at the BHSE level.  My SRX Plus (based on the Stax SRX circuit with solid state current sources) design is a step below the BHSE but much cheaper and easier to build.


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## Whitigir

KG Grounded Grid is a very good amp


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## Whitigir

JimL11 said:


> It's not just what people are asking for them, it's what they are actually selling for.  Used BHSEs sell at close to their new price.  WES doesn't.



That is understandable, BHSE new unit needs months to build, and it is not a mass produced product.  Together with a proven solid performance, and that is that


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## astrostar59 (Jul 25, 2017)

Stax T8000
Returning to this subject, I was reading some 'not so hot' feedback over at the _other place_ on the sound of this amp. In my demo at Can-Jam last week, I was underwhelmed. It seems to my ears a slight jump above my old 717 amp, way behind my next amp the KGSShv off-board, and my current amp the Carbon. Or the BHSE which I have heard many times and at the show as well. They are on another planet IMO. This is a bit disappointing. I was hoping this amp would promote what the 009 or the 007s are capable of to the masses (in shop demo's), as opposed to the 'in crowd' on the forums. But then again, maybe Stax are a small company still and don't want more sale volumes? But regardless, it seems a lost opportunity to me and I also think it is too pricy for the sound on offer.


----------



## Whitigir

I have no doubt that any of the current high-end KG amplifiers are on another planet.  , technically speaking aside, the performances I can hear from it is another world


----------



## JimL11

Whitigir said:


> KG Grounded Grid is a very good amp



True, but it is more of a hybrid approach, with solid state front end and tube outputs.  The Megatron and SRX Plus use tubes as the amplifying devices all the way through, but with solid state support (current sources and loads).



Whitigir said:


> That is understandable, BHSE new unit needs months to build, and it is not a mass produced product.  Together with a proven solid performance, and that is that



Well, the demand for the BHSE exceeds the supply in all likelihood, which is a contributing factor.  I'm not sure that I would consider the WES mass produced, given its price - it's a niche product.  But more than that, the used price is a also comment on the sound quality.


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 25, 2017)

BHSE has solid state input and tube output just similar to GG generally speaking, and more hybrid.  Only Megatron and T2 has both tubes in-out


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## astrostar59 (Jul 25, 2017)

Whitigir said:


> BHSE has solid state input and tube output just similar to GG generally speaking, and more hybrid.  Only Megatron and T2 has both tubes in-out



Dunno actually. JimL will know, but I thought the T2 had some Fets in the gain stage as well as those EL34s? A long bank of them. Unless they are voltage regulators?

On the WES being mass market, I am not sure. Woo Audio is quite a small company and I bet they haven't sold that many WES, though that is purely guesswork. What I did see was lots of comparisons and excitement over that amp a few years back on here, but seemingly many have now sold them and moved on. It used to be compared on a BHSE level, how things change....


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## Whitigir (Jul 25, 2017)

astrostar59 said:


> Dunno actually. JimL will know, but I thought the T2 had some Fets in the gain stage as well as those EL34s? A long back of them. Unless they are voltage regulators?



That is true when you dig in deep, Megatron is truly a Tubes galore.  Anyways, why do I like GG so much ? The idea is because it was hybrid.  The speed and low Harmonic Distortions from input carrying upto the front end, but with tubes output stages to once again gain some second Harmonic distortions.  This combinations would be of a high fidelity+tubes magics together.

Basically, I love the Carbon, but I wanted some more fluidity of tubes magic, and I am glad Kevin Gilmore made it happened.  I don't know if you remember, I couldn't deal with 009 and Carbon at 18mA...let's alone 20mA.....

Now, I always know that theory is different than real application....so I built the GG, and it did surprise me by "a lot!"  It is everything from theory and into the real application itself.  That is why when speaking of Grounded Grid, you are essentially talking about Carbon with tubes magic


----------



## astrostar59

I agree Whitigir, a hybrid amp and indeed a hybrid *system* can work so well. 

For example, I used to be all SS in my speaker system, with big MF 370 power amps for my Kef 107 speakers. It was nice, but until I got a tube pre-amp it was not quite right for my tastes. Fast forward, I now have no pre-amp as gone passive, but do use a tubed DAC feeding my SS power amp and horn speakers, or my Carbon and 009s. So I am still on hybrid territory, there is something in it IMO. In speaker systems having all tube power amps can be expensive to get right, as in most speakers nowadays are very inefficient and can have wild impedance curves. And getting fast and earth shattering sub bass seems a strength of big SS amps I have found, though not in all cases. Usually as budgets go higher, tubes power amps can do some amazing things with sub bass control as well as everything else. But the speaker has to be matched to get the most out of what is on offer IMO.

In HPs we don't really have such huge demands for sub bass / raw power. And tubes do something special especially with timbre and vocals for example.


----------



## Whitigir

astrostar59 said:


> I agree Whitigir, a hybrid amp and indeed a hybrid *system* can work so well.
> 
> For example, I used to be all SS in my speaker system, with big MF 370 power amps for my Kef 107 speakers. It was nice, but until I got a tube pre-amp it was not quite right for my tastes. Fast forward, I now have no pre-amp as gone passive, but do use a tubed DAC feeding my SS power amp and horn speakers, or my Carbon and 009s. So I am still on hybrid territory, there is something in it IMO. In speaker systems having all tube power amps can be expensive to get right, as in most speakers nowadays are very inefficient and can have wild impedance curves. And getting fast and earth shattering sub bass seems a strength of big SS amps I have found, though not in all cases. Usually as budgets go higher, tubes power amps can do some amazing things with sub bass control as well as everything else. But the speaker has to be matched to get the most out of what is on offer IMO.
> 
> In HPs we don't really have such huge demands for sub bass / raw power. And tubes do something special especially with timbre and vocals for example.



You just spoke the whole "magic about hybrid breed".  Excellent speech !!


----------



## JimL11

astrostar59 said:


> Stax T8000
> Returning to this subject, I was reading some 'not so hot' feedback over at the _other place_ on the sound of this amp. In my demo at Can-Jam last week, I was underwhelmed. It seems to my ears a slight jump above my old 717 amp, way behind my next amp the KGSShv off-board, and my current amp the Carbon. Or the BHSE which I have heard many times and at the show as well. They are on another planet IMO. This is a bit disappointing. I was hoping this amp would promote what the 009 or the 007s are capable of to the masses (in shop demo's), as opposed to the 'in crowd' on the forums. But then again, maybe Stax are a small company still and don't want more sale volumes? But regardless, it seems a lost opportunity to me and I also think it is too pricy for the sound on offer.



Stax does seem to be somewhat insular - they don't seem to have been paying much attention to what is going on in the rest of the world.  As Dr. Gilmore has pointed out, they actually went backwards from the 727's current source loaded driver stage to the 717's resistor loaded stage.  The current source in the output stage isn't really great either - I assume it was done that way for balance with the output devices.  It seems like they forgot the primary point of the exercise, which was to design a better sounding amplifier, in favor of secondary features like an auxiliary slot and a servo.


----------



## JimL11

Whitigir said:


> BHSE has solid state input and tube output just similar to GG generally speaking, and more hybrid.  Only Megatron and T2 has both tubes in-out



Yes, the T2 is tube input and tube output, but the audio signal passes through a whole bunch of solid state circuitry in between, so it is still a hybrid circuit.  The Megatron uses tubes for signal handling from input to output, as does the SRX Plus.   You can trace the signal path from input to output without passing through any transistors.  The downside to using only tubes for signal handling is that there is capacitor coupling between stages in both the Megatron and SRX Plus.   There are solid state devices in both, but only as current sources/loads.  To make an analogy, the signal current "bounces off" the current sources/loads but doesn't transverse through them.


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> BHSE has solid state input and tube output just similar to GG generally speaking, and more hybrid.  Only Megatron and T2 has both tubes in-out



Next HeadAmp Electrostatic amp that will top the BHSE will be "all tubes"  -->  My BHSE might be for sale next year ....


----------



## Whitigir

bmichels said:


> Next HeadAmp Electrostatic amp that will top the BHSE will be "all tubes"  -->  My BHSE might be for sale next year ....



All tubes, why not do Megatron ?


----------



## wink

bmichels said:


> Next HeadAmp Electrostatic amp that will top the BHSE will be "all tubes"  -->  My BHSE might be for sale next year ....


Buy the new Headamp unit *AND* keep the BHSE........   

That's upgrading done right.....


----------



## purk

JimL11 said:


> It's not just what people are asking for them, it's what they are actually selling for.  Used BHSEs sell at close to their new price.  WES doesn't.



Plus it is striking to look at every single time you lay eye on it.  Damn...I miss my old BHSE!


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## mulveling (Jul 26, 2017)

purk said:


> Plus it is striking to look at every single time you lay eye on it.  Damn...I miss my old BHSE!


Purk, you can buy it back, I don't really use it that much...
Syke! 

The upcoming new Headmp tube amp will be awesome, but so far I prefer the classy/sleek look of the silver-faceplate BHSE. And wait time for any new amp will be a killer. That said, I wouldn't be too surprised if I went for it at some point in the future. Curiosity is a killer, and with my strong preference for the 009, and complete aversion to 5-figure digital sources, I really have nowhere else to go for my headphone rig.


----------



## Whitigir

mulveling said:


> Purk, you can buy it back, I don't really use it that much...
> Syke!
> 
> The upcoming new Headmp tube amp will be awesome, but so far I prefer the classy/sleek look of the silver-faceplate BHSE. And wait time for any new amp will be a killer. That said, I wouldn't be too surprised if I went for it at some point in the future. Curiosity is a killer, and with my strong preference for the 009, and complete aversion to 5-figure digital sources, I really have nowhere else to go for my headphone rig.



That is nothing, it can only get worse from here and not better


----------



## bmichels

mulveling said:


> ....The upcoming new Headmp tube amp will be awesome..



Peter from HeadAmp told me that, with the SR009, the new "all tube" Amp improves the bass significantly.  I guess he did not only mean more bass, but also better quality bass !  

As of today, I can't imagine how the bass can be even better than with my BHSE... We will see !


----------



## astrostar59

bmichels said:


> Peter from HeadAmp told me that, with the SR009, the new "all tube" Amp improves the bass significantly.  I guess he did not only mean more bass, but also better quality bass !
> 
> As of today, I can't imagine how the bass can be even better than with my BHSE... We will see !



I won't say which Electrostatic amp stand said it, but I was chatting to them about my 009 failure last year, and they immediately claimed the KG and BHSE amps push too much voltage and that's why they 'break' the 009s. I didn't reply to that, but IMO they seemed annoyed if anything about the 'other' amps for Stax HPs. One guy even said BHSE, what's that? And it was a few stands away from his stand! Hmm, maybe they are annoyed because they sound better?


----------



## Whitigir

astrostar59 said:


> I won't say which Electrostatic amp stand said it, but I was chatting to them about my 009 failure last year, and they immediately claimed the KG and BHSE amps push too much voltage and that's why they 'break' the 009s. I didn't reply to that, but IMO they seemed annoyed if anything about the 'other' amps for Stax HPs. One guy even said BHSE, what's that? And it was a few stands away from his stand! Hmm, maybe they are annoyed because they sound better?



You have no ideas how many "dealers" are "annoyed" by KG amplifiers....you know why .  I respect people a lot, but when something is obvious....I just leave it be


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## Pokemonn (Jul 26, 2017)

Stax hq is not anti diy... I have heard that old stax products instructions manuals contain diy circuit guides. I don't know what Chinese owner thinks.lol


----------



## Merkurio (Jul 26, 2017)

I planning to buy a L700 earspeaker + SRM-323X amplifier in a near future, but have a few concerns regarding their sound qualities...

As far as I read, seems that the L700s tend to excel in almost every audible aspect, on pair with current TOTL headphones or above, except maybe in soundstage, which is my main concern.

I listen a lot of classic music, jazz, and other instrumental stuff, as well as other vocal generes, so it's important for my that they've a good sense of imaging and separation, as well as a decent soundstage, perhaps no so massive as the HD800 though.

My reference point was my ex-K701, so I need to know how the Staxs compares against the AKGs in that regard...


----------



## Sorrodje

In my humble opinion , the L700 offer a very decent soundstage. Maybe not on par with 007's one but still much better than previous Lambda Generation and almost all lambdas I heard ( only exception could be the Lambda Signature ) . Still in my opinion, the L700 is nott on par with Omegas in term of refinement, resolution and in term of bass extension.  

I much prefered L700 presentation ( which is well proportionned with a good sense of depth and Layering and still the airy nature which is a family trait) to K701's one . I always heard K701's soundstage as weird : huge witdth, somewhat forward due to the mid bumb and almost divised in 3 blobs ( left - center - right) . 

I don't think you'll be disappointed by the L700.


----------



## Thaudiophile

Will the Bhse price go down after the new headamp is released?


----------



## Whitigir

Thaudiophile said:


> Will the Bhse price go down after the new headamp is released?


I doubt it, the price for BHSE, if you don't do Fancy Volume pot ($1,000) is reasonable enough to "motivate and encourage" someone to keep on working and producing the Amps.  If you want cheaper, may just go DIY, and learn why I just said what I did.  Be glad that you can DIY these Amps....I can not imagine if it were patented and mass produced by some companies....the prices would be 3-4x more.

By the way, if making it was easy enough and pricing can be low enough to make profit, you would have already seen China market pouring it out everywhere...flooding it


----------



## Rossliew

Can anyone who has heard the Megatron and BHSE compare the sound between the two? Would the all-tube Megatron sound warmer and more forgiving?


----------



## JimL11

astrostar59 said:


> I won't say which Electrostatic amp stand said it, but I was chatting to them about my 009 failure last year, and they immediately claimed the KG and BHSE amps push too much voltage and that's why they 'break' the 009s. I didn't reply to that, but IMO they seemed annoyed if anything about the 'other' amps for Stax HPs. One guy even said BHSE, what's that? And it was a few stands away from his stand! Hmm, maybe they are annoyed because they sound better?



That is almost certainly BS unless you crank the volume.  As Dr. Gilmore and spritzer have mentioned, you could potentially damage the membrane if the signal peak-to-peak exceeds twice the bias voltage.  Since Stax Pro earspeakers have a bias voltage of 580 volts, this works out to 1160 volts.  Now the BHSE has a gain of 500x specified, so that means if the input signal exceeds 2.32 volts peak-to-peak , or 0.82 volts RMS, you could damage the membrane.  A CD player, for example, has a maximum output of 2 volts RMS single-ended, or 4 volts RMS balanced - this is true for most digital sources also.  So a level of 0.82 volts RMS corresponded to -8 dB single ended, or -14 dB balanced.  For most volume controls, this corresponds to a volume setting of somewhere between 3 o'clock to 1 o'clock.  Most people listen with the volume setting around 12 o'clock, give or take.  Assuming the above, at that setting it should not be possible for the music signal to cause damage to the membrane.


----------



## JimL11

Rossliew said:


> Can anyone who has heard the Megatron and BHSE compare the sound between the two? Would the all-tube Megatron sound warmer and more forgiving?



Google is your friend.  This is the top result that came up when I typed in megatron amplifier.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/megatron-electrostatic-amplifier.773778/


----------



## Rossliew

Many thanks, Jim. My memory fails me as i have read that thread before.


----------



## jcn3 (Jul 27, 2017)

Just received my L700s -- they sound fabulous right out of the box!  It doesn't get a lot of love anymore, but my SRM-007t drives them wonderfully!

Any comments on break-in time?


----------



## MayorDomino

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-STAX...176715?hash=item212b2b44cb:g:7UsAAOSwLj9ZefSt

Can anyone tell what this actually does?


----------



## jcn3

MayorDomino said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-STAX...176715?hash=item212b2b44cb:g:7UsAAOSwLj9ZefSt
> 
> Can anyone tell what this actually does?



It's a preamplifier, purely and simply.


----------



## Whitigir

Preamplifier meaning it is the thing in the chain "before" your amplifier


----------



## Merkurio

Sorrodje said:


> In my humble opinion , the L700 offer a very decent soundstage. Maybe not on par with 007's one but still much better than previous Lambda Generation and almost all lambdas I heard ( only exception could be the Lambda Signature ) . Still in my opinion, the L700 is nott on par with Omegas in term of refinement, resolution and in term of bass extension.
> 
> I much prefered L700 presentation ( which is well proportionned with a good sense of depth and Layering and still the airy nature which is a family trait) to K701's one . I always heard K701's soundstage as weird : huge witdth, somewhat forward due to the mid bumb and almost divised in 3 blobs ( left - center - right) .
> 
> I don't think you'll be disappointed by the L700.



Well, that sounds great!

Thank you.


----------



## kevin gilmore

astrostar59 said:


> I won't say which Electrostatic amp stand said it, but I was chatting to them about my 009 failure last year, and they immediately claimed the KG and BHSE amps push too much voltage and that's why they 'break' the 009s. I didn't reply to that, but IMO they seemed annoyed if anything about the 'other' amps for Stax HPs. One guy even said BHSE, what's that? And it was a few stands away from his stand! Hmm, maybe they are annoyed because they sound better?



all my amps have the same protection resistors as all of the stax amps, and none of them exceed the voltage swing of the stax T2.

complete nonsense


----------



## astrostar59

kevin gilmore said:


> all my amps have the same protection resistors as all of the stax amps, and none of them exceed the voltage swing of the stax T2.
> 
> complete nonsense



Pretty much what I thought. Thanks.


----------



## mulveling

jcn3 said:


> Just received my L700s -- they sound fabulous right out of the box!  It doesn't get a lot of love anymore, but my SRM-007t drives them wonderfully!
> 
> Any comments on break-in time?


Stax drivers don't need break-in. At all. I've broken in 2 brand new pairs of 009 and a brand-new L700; no change in sound. The pad condition can (and will) affect the sound over time, though.


----------



## paradoxper

astrostar59 said:


> I won't say which Electrostatic amp stand said it, but I was chatting to them about my 009 failure last year, and they immediately claimed the KG and BHSE amps push too much voltage and that's why they 'break' the 009s. I didn't reply to that, but IMO they seemed annoyed if anything about the 'other' amps for Stax HPs. One guy even said BHSE, what's that? And it was a few stands away from his stand! Hmm, maybe they are annoyed because they sound better?



Which stand and whom?


----------



## paradoxper

Trilogy Audio was showcasing their garbage and also displaying their utter incompetence. Not surprising.


----------



## JimL11 (Jul 29, 2017)

paradoxper said:


> Trilogy Audio was showcasing their garbage and also displaying their utter incompetence. Not surprising.



But, but, but...  HI-FI+ said Trilogy had:
"a completely clean sheet, creating an all-valve, zero feedback, fully differential design with a direct coupled output stage. The H1 features high transconductance valves throughout.... The H1 is also one of the first designs not to simply go for high voltage output, thereby potentially creating micro-tears in the stator membrane. In listening tests, both AS and CM felt this is a paradigm shift in performance for the Stax SR-009."

Surely they couldn't be wrong :^)

Now from a technical point of view, valves is OK, zero feedback is questionable at such high gains (problems with stabilization), fully differential is fine, direct coupled output stage implies cap coupling somewhere, which is pretty much unavoidable with tubes, and stator membrane is just total gobbledy-gook.  The stator is supposed to be stationary, hence "stator" and the membrane is (presumably) the movable diaphragm.  Two completely different parts of the headphone, which suggests that the writers transferred the tech spiel directly from the manufacturer's literature to the page without passing it through the brain.  Not to mention, has anyone demonstrated the presence of these micro tears reportedly due to high voltage?


----------



## mulveling

"Clean sheet". "Paradigm shift". Lol, just lol. Nobody can take them seriously with garbage words like that.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I'm sure we'll see the insides of this amp (as well as circuitry) on the other site soon.

Ali


----------



## yates7592

joseph69 said:


> I haven't tried this yet because I don't want to harm either of my amps, and currently I don't have another XLR cable to do so…but has anyone owning both the GS-Xmk2 & BHSE ever used the XLR preamp outputs from the mk2 into the BHSE? If so, would their be any benefits to using the mk2 as a preamp for the BHSE in regards to SQ or any other advantages or disadvantages for that matter?
> Thanks!



Did you try adding the pre?


----------



## joseph69

No, I haven't.
Have you ever?


----------



## yates7592

No, but I'm planning to. I've just bought a used Pass XP-20 and have been very impressed with the benefits with my active monitors.  I'm curious now to see if there is any benefit at all in using it with my Carbon. I need another set of interconnects before I can do that.


----------



## joseph69

yates7592 said:


> No, but I'm planning to. I've just bought a used Pass XP-20 and have been very impressed with the benefits with my active monitors.  I'm curious now to see if there is any benefit at all in using it with my Carbon. I need another set of interconnects before I can do that.


Please keep me posted on your experience with the preamp in your chain.


----------



## Rossliew

yates7592 said:


> No, but I'm planning to. I've just bought a used Pass XP-20 and have been very impressed with the benefits with my active monitors.  I'm curious now to see if there is any benefit at all in using it with my Carbon. I need another set of interconnects before I can do that.



I'm currently running a Nad 3020 as pre-amp into my Carbon - adds another dimension to the overall sound in terms of body, tonality and airiness. I would say the sound is coloured in a way. Good or bad depends on who you ask and what your ears prefer. My Carbon is built to sound neutral - not entirely to my taste and adding the Nad pre-amp brought a certain thicker tonality to the mix, which i very much prefer. So, in your case, the XP-20 would impart its signature onto your chain and it may /may not be synergistic until you try it. All the best and do let us know the results


----------



## astrostar59 (Jul 30, 2017)

mulveling said:


> "Clean sheet". "Paradigm shift". Lol, just lol. Nobody can take them seriously with garbage words like that.



I agree mulveling. But aside from the technicalities or BS, the sound was underwhelming, coming from the Stax T-8000 which was also underwhelming. I got my 'fix' by them hearing the 009s out of the BHSE right after, and right there, wow moment. So it was't my ears, I wasn't loosing sight of where the amps sit. If my old SRM-717 was say 5, the T-8000 I would put at 7, the Trilogy 8, my KGSShv off-board Sanyo would be 10, and the BHSE and IMO my Carbon would be at 12. That is the kind of scale I was hearing. I heard probably 9 on the LCD4 out of the DAVE, and 10 on the LCD4 out of the GSX. The Utopia out of the Feliks was also 10, but had a warmer slant than the Chord (as output) or the GSX. So for my tastes the Feliks amp sounded better than the GSX I would say (to my ears) and by the way it is under 900 euros for that amp!

The 009 is an oddball HP, in my mind it does some things so blindingly good, out of the park good like transparency and speed, decay, depth, layering, soundstage, but is not perfect. It looses some ground on bass drama and power, even though it is damb good out of the Carbon, and female vocals, orchestral (violins) heavy rock and possibly jazz maybe close or slightly behind the Utopia or LCD4. It is hard to know without more demo time and more tracks to listen too. There is a slightly more relaxed sound to the non Stat systems at that level so a different kind of presentation. Would I get bored with that ? Dunno. Maybe I would think there was something missing. And of course, bass power can soon become an issue in headphones, almost close off the ear and then not hear the details we crave. Tricky one to know for sure. I would need to borrow both those systems and use all day to know that.

So maybe the Utopia or LCD4 inched ahead on those weaker points, but the 009 to me was miles ahead on the first points. In other words, those really bring it home for me, and leave the others behind. Something i can't give up on TBH.

This is IMO and YMMV. I must say though, I do think the competition (non stats) have come a long way, and without being spoilt by the 009s and my Carbon, I could be happy with the 'other' camp.


----------



## yates7592

Rossliew said:


> I'm currently running a Nad 3020 as pre-amp into my Carbon - adds another dimension to the overall sound in terms of body, tonality and airiness. I would say the sound is coloured in a way. Good or bad depends on who you ask and what your ears prefer. My Carbon is built to sound neutral - not entirely to my taste and adding the Nad pre-amp brought a certain thicker tonality to the mix, which i very much prefer. So, in your case, the XP-20 would impart its signature onto your chain and it may /may not be synergistic until you try it. All the best and do let us know the results



Interesting thanks. Where are you on the volume dial with your Carbon whilst using the Nad 3020?


----------



## Rossliew

yates7592 said:


> Interesting thanks. Where are you on the volume dial with your Carbon whilst using the Nad 3020?


Volume for the Carbon is all the way up which means no attenuation .


----------



## yates7592

Rossliew said:


> Volume for the Carbon is all the way up which means no attenuation .



Any issues running the Carbon at full volume at all times? Heat/noise?


----------



## Rossliew

Either way the Carbon runs hot. I just place a standing fan blowing at the amp


----------



## chinsettawong

My carbon isn't that hot.  I run mine at 18 mA.
I think bigger heatsink fins help.


----------



## thinker

I'm using QA Transdyn as a Stax amp it's very musical and very powerful with tremendous bass and drives 007 quite loud already on attenuator position 3 / scale from 1-10.I ordered Phenomenon Canorum and will report how it compares to Staxes.The Libratum is already a excellent competitor against any Staxes .I just build an adaptor between Transdyn to Staxes and it works excellent


----------



## Rossliew

chinsettawong said:


> My carbon isn't that hot.  I run mine at 18 mA.
> I think bigger heatsink fins help.


Mine should be around 18 mA as well. The fins get hot to the touch.


----------



## thinker

this is the Canorum


----------



## chinsettawong

thinker said:


> I'm using QA Transdyn as a Stax amp it's very musical and very powerful with tremendous bass and drives 007 quite loud already on attenuator position 3 / scale from 1-10.I ordered Phenomenon Canorum and will report how it compares to Staxes.The Libratum is already a excellent competitor against any Staxes .I just build an adaptor between Transdyn to Staxes and it works excellent



How do you connect SR007 to this amplifier?  As far as I know, JF headphones use much higher bias voltage than Stax.  How do you reduce the voltage to use with the SR007?


----------



## astrostar59 (Jul 31, 2017)

yates7592 said:


> Any issues running the Carbon at full volume at all times? Heat/noise?



I believe the KG amps and in this case the Carbon run like class A so flat out at all times? Clarification required.
The heat at the sinks is dissipating that, regardless of volume setting.  The Ma setting of the PS will affect the heat as it has to dissipate more amps naturally. Mine is at 18Ma and probably gets about 20°C above ambient at the heatsinks, maybe bit less. My sinks are big, 135mm high by 40mm deep (fins) and about 300mm long.


----------



## Thaudiophile

thinker said:


> I'm using QA Transdyn as a Stax amp it's very musical and very powerful with tremendous bass and drives 007 quite loud already on attenuator position 3 / scale from 1-10.I ordered Phenomenon Canorum and will report how it compares to Staxes.The Libratum is already a excellent competitor against any Staxes .I just build an adaptor between Transdyn to Staxes and it works excellent


Do you have SR omegas?If yes then can you tell me how it sounds?


----------



## thinker

I installed the Stax cable to the Fischer plug and that's it, it sounds excellent.I'am going to test this amp with different Staxes in near future including Canorum


----------



## chinsettawong

thinker said:


> I installed the Stax cable to the Fischer plug and that's it, it sounds excellent.I'am going to test this amp with different Staxes in near future including Canorum



Well, you definitely will hear louder sound out of this amplifier with Stax headphones.  With the high bias voltage it's feeding to the headphones, be very careful when you turn up the volume.  You might just burn your Stax headphones' diaphragms easily.


----------



## thinker

I know,i use the volume control very carefully, i have used Lambda sig. for about a month now with Transdyn and i like it alot ,didn't know how much potential Lambda signatures have.


----------



## JimL11

astrostar59 said:


> I believe the KG amps and in this case the Carbon run like class A so flat out at all times? Clarification required..



Class A means that the output devices are biased so that the are transmitting signal at all times.

Almost all headphone amps are class A, including every electrostatic headphone amp that I am aware of, such as the Gilmore Amps, the Cavilli, the Woo, the SRX-Plus, etc.

Every amp that has one output device, tube or transistor, has to be class A.

The only exceptions are possibly some cheap IC op amp headphone amps that are run in class AB.


----------



## astrostar59

_Thanks JimL11 for you knowledge on that. _

So, the heat in a Carbon for example, comes from the Sic Fets on the heatsinks, and also the PS regulators. Thus all Carbons following KGs design will produce heat and roughly the amount of it will be based on the Ma setting (how high) as then have to dissipate that. 

My speaker amp is full Class A or AB selectable, and in class AB mode is cool unless pushed in volume but even then gets middy warm. In Class A setting it gets super hot on the heatsinks and sits in class A regardless of volume, dissipating about 700 watts. But my Carbon is the same temp all the time even if set to no volume.


----------



## mulveling

astrostar59 said:


> _Thanks JimL11 for you knowledge on that. _
> 
> So, the heat in a Carbon for example, comes from the Sic Fets on the heatsinks, and also the PS regulators. Thus all Carbons following KGs design will produce heat and roughly the amount of it will be based on the Ma setting (how high) as then have to dissipate that.
> 
> My speaker amp is full Class A or AB selectable, and in class AB mode is cool unless pushed in volume but even then gets middy warm. In Class A setting it gets super hot on the heatsinks and sits in class A regardless of volume, dissipating about 700 watts. But my Carbon is the same temp all the time even if set to no volume.


Class A amps should dissipate the maximum amount of heat when sitting idle. But not that it's much cooler to run them hard -- they basically dump out a ton of heat at all times.


----------



## Whitigir

mulveling said:


> Class A amps should dissipate the maximum amount of heat when sitting idle. But not that it's much cooler to run them hard -- they basically dump out a ton of heat at all times.



Best feature instead of a fireplace


----------



## hpeter

jcn3 said:


> Just received my L700s -- they sound fabulous right out of the box!  It doesn't get a lot of love anymore, but my SRM-007t drives them wonderfully!
> 
> Any comments on break-in time?


enjoy the use.


----------



## astrostar59 (Aug 1, 2017)

I don't believe there is a break in time on stats. I haven't heard it, and others have posted here to say the same. I *have* come across it on some new IEMs and on traditional cone HPs, possibly as the edge of the cone has to loosen up a bit? That also can apply to new speakers in my experience.

What I used to notice going way back, on my SRD7 Stax energiser, is that it did need a warm up at a certain volume. It then got a bit louder and more dynamic, as though the transformers or caps were 'charging up'? No idea, but that is what I heard. But I haven't heard any such behaviour on amps. You will find your 007t sounds better after an hour or so after switch on I imagine, as pretty much find that in any amp HP or speakers.


----------



## Whitigir

I couldn't tell any changed from my 009, but Stax did mention that their Headphones got break-in for 2 weeks before boxing up and going out


----------



## Jones Bob (Aug 1, 2017)

Whitigir said:


> I couldn't tell any changed from my 009, but Stax did mention that their Headphones got break-in for 2 weeks before boxing up and going out



I believe that was implemented after customers were returning SR-009s for channel balance issues. By running them in for a longer period at the factory, in hopes of weeding out the bad eggs before shipping.

Like you, have not experienced burn-in with my STAX SR-009 -or SR-007MKII, SR-L700, SR-207, SR-003MKII. Out of the box, they sound stable.


----------



## XLR8

Joseph, 
That is a lot of stax headphones


----------



## Ali-Pacha

You don't say ? 

Ali


----------



## joseph69

XLR8 said:


> Joseph,
> That is a lot of stax headphones


That's not me... we have the same avatar, though.
Unless Jones Bob is named Joseph too?


----------



## Jones Bob (Aug 1, 2017)

Nope, not a Joseph.

Had a few new STAX over the years. Recently downsized and kept just the SR-009, SR-207 and SR-003MKII. Those best suit my needs/tastes.


----------



## XLR8

For some unknown reason,  his post appeared with Joseph69 name above the post.

Bizarre browser behaviour..
Apologies.. To both.


----------



## joseph69

XLR8 said:


> For some unknown reason,  his post appeared with Joseph69 name above the post.
> 
> Bizarre browser behaviour..
> Apologies.. To both.


Its also been running slow too.


----------



## aldavey

So after four months of ownership my 009's have developed a low level buzz and an intermittent low level whine in the right diaphragm, stays at the same level regardless of volume setting on the KGSS Carbon. When I switch off the amp it continues for a minute or so before stopping. Any ideas of a cure or is back to Stax with them?


----------



## chinsettawong

That sounds like some dust in the driver.  If it's still within the warranty, you should better send them back for a repair.


----------



## Whitigir

chinsettawong said:


> That sounds like some dust in the driver.  If it's still within the warranty, you should better send them back for a repair.


I agree that I would just turn it back into Stax and let them figure it out as it is within warranty.  Here is a post from some member regarding of cleaning the membranes but it is not for a faint of heart

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sta...e-driver-problem.555908/page-56#post-13500867


----------



## aldavey

Whitigir said:


> I agree that I would just turn it back into Stax and let them figure it out as it is within warranty.  Here is a post from some member regarding of cleaning the membranes but it is not for a faint of heart
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sta...e-driver-problem.555908/page-56#post-13500867


Thanks for the responses. I live in Tokyo so it's back to Stax, will have to live with the HD800 for a bit.


----------



## Tom Blake

Does anyone know the current situation on US servicing of Stax headphones? I have a pair of L500's under US warranty needing service for a channel imbalance. The Accutech Service Center linked from the staxusa.com page has a disconnected phone number. And the phone number for Yama's Inc. goes straight to voice mail and I have been unable to get a reply. I have also reached out to the dealer I got the L500's from (Elusive Disc). They are trying to help as well but don't have any more current information than what is on the website. Thanks for any help provided!


----------



## gilency

Unfortunately all there is is an address but no email or web site yet for the new dealer. Stay moves at glacial pace.
http://www.stax.co.jp/Export/Distributor-USA2.html


----------



## bearFNF (Aug 3, 2017)

Tom Blake said:


> Does anyone know the current situation on US servicing of Stax headphones? I have a pair of L500's under US warranty needing service for a channel imbalance. The Accutech Service Center linked from the staxusa.com page has a disconnected phone number. And the phone number for Yama's Inc. goes straight to voice mail and I have been unable to get a reply. I have also reached out to the dealer I got the L500's from (Elusive Disc). They are trying to help as well but don't have any more current information than what is on the website. Thanks for any help provided!


I have reached out to my contacts at Edifier to ask them what the proper channels would be. (Edifier owns Stax BTW)
I will let you know what I hear back. They REALLLLLYYYY need to get this worked out.


----------



## bearFNF

gilency said:


> Unfortunately all there is is an address but no email or web site yet for the new dealer. Stay moves at glacial pace.
> http://www.stax.co.jp/Export/Distributor-USA2.html


That is the same address as the Edifier distributor. But they are not set up to receive Stax.
*Edifier USA*
428 Hemphill Street, Fort Worth, TX 76104

1-844-368-3631

*service@edifier.ca*


----------



## bearFNF (Aug 3, 2017)

Here is the response from my Edifier contact.
___________________________________________
.... Please wait for a short while, we are reconstructing our STAX English web site.  Once the web site is open, we can have all service sent to that email. STAX is part of Edifier, but are two customer service....
Thank you!...
STAX Electrostatic Audio Products 
___________________________________________


----------



## paradoxper

I PM'ed you Douglas Ip's contact as it's not allowed here publicly.


----------



## paradoxper (Aug 3, 2017)

Per a recent conversation with AnakChan, it doesn't seem Yama's being out is what we'd hoped for. Maybe there will be plans for more in the future.
For now, it's just distribution -- which would imply all repairs will require Stax involvement in Japan.

http://rpdltd.com/#home


----------



## DronEvil (Aug 5, 2017)

Hi, I am in a similar boat. I have 007mk2 SZ3 that are only a few months old (USA warranty purchased from Yama originally) with channel imbalance/distortion in one ear. Does anyone know the email to reach out to stax japan to get the process rolling for a repair? I don't mind shipping them to japan if it will get them fixed!

Thanks in advance!


----------



## pham

There're 4 headphones and a new kid on the block... that can drive 'em all.


----------



## Whitigir

So much Dope!


----------



## JayKay47

pham said:


> There're 4 headphones and a new kid on the block... that can drive 'em all.



Sweet baby Jesus!!!


----------



## Clean6eR

hi,

i have a SRM-Xh which i plugged the wrong polarity into and now no sound comes out,

its a green pcb "PB-201 08438-00210" (no fuse or protection diode to replace that im aware of)

it has the red led on the front of the unit working but the two internal red LED's are not lit up.

i found the posts by "Tus-Chan" on the old thread who has the same issue and kevin gilmore and defqon offered help.

i followed that help and ordered two new mosfets (2sk940) and one new regulator (3524) also recapped the whole board.

i got the parts one after another, so i recapped it all to start and tested (no change) then i switched the mosfets out (both of them) no change and finally today just switched out the regulator and hoped it would all fire up, but alas it has not changed in anyway.

can anybody help me?


----------



## Tinkerer

Buy a parts tester and desolder and check the fets. That will tell you what's good or not. If you already replaced the mosfets and the thing is still not lighting up, you might have toasted some of the jfets too. Check the voltage on the bias supply while you're at it. If the amp is working but you aren't charging the diaphragm, you won't be getting any sound either.

Actually, you might just want to do a full rebuild for fun. I remember a bunch of the resistors being carbon film in there. Probably not more than $25 in parts to replace everything but the connectors and the transformer.


----------



## aldavey

DronEvil said:


> Hi, I am in a similar boat. I have 007mk2 SZ3 that are only a few months old (USA warranty purchased from Yama originally) with channel imbalance/distortion in one ear. Does anyone know the email to reach out to stax japan to get the process rolling for a repair? I don't mind shipping them to japan if it will get them fixed!
> 
> Thanks in advance!


According to Stax website there is no direct email address for Stax Japan. They ask that you route any enquiry through your dealer or local distributor. Same for me here in Tokyo. I am sending my 009s back through the shop from where they were purchased. So not much help I'm afraid.


----------



## XLR8

You'd think that quality control with there top of the line model would be paramount but I guess wrong. 
No issue with my lambdas.. 

Touch wood.


----------



## Clean6eR

Tinkerer said:


> Buy a parts tester and desolder and check the fets. That will tell you what's good or not. If you already replaced the mosfets and the thing is still not lighting up, you might have toasted some of the jfets too. Check the voltage on the bias supply while you're at it. If the amp is working but you aren't charging the diaphragm, you won't be getting any sound either.
> 
> Actually, you might just want to do a full rebuild for fun. I remember a bunch of the resistors being carbon film in there. Probably not more than $25 in parts to replace everything but the connectors and the transformer.



Parts tester? I got a bench dmm. 
Im no pro with electronics but ill try pulling and testing the fets. 

Is it true that beige resistors are carbon and blue metal? if so ill switch out any beige ones, and try to figure out if the ones in the signal path are matched well and change them out if i can find better pairs. 
would it matter if they are carbo n or metal in the power section of the board?

this thing cost me 50 quid, what are they worth when working? i tend to buy .1% resistors at about 80p-£1 each, so want to know if its worth sinking money into and how much.(got a 006t in the post)

thank you for your help!!!


----------



## erik701

pham said:


> There're 4 headphones and a new kid on the block... that can drive 'em all.



What's the transport/player in the top left corner? Btw nice Zonda Cinque model


----------



## XLR8

pham said:


> There're 4 headphones and a new kid on the block... that can drive 'em all.


I bet he'll be upgrading in 6 months.


----------



## statfi

VandyMan said:


> I love my BHSE + 009, but I find that hard to understand too. I've heard the HE-1 and I'd trade my setup for it in a heartbeat.


Could you add some characterization of the comparison, like Ali-Pacha did?  I.e., why would you trade your setup (which is the same as mine)?
I am wondering how big the gap between the HE-1 and the stock 009s is, compared to the change in sound with and without rubber bands to increase the clamping force on the 009s.


----------



## VandyMan

statfi said:


> Could you add some characterization of the comparison, like Ali-Pacha did?  I.e., why would you trade your setup (which is the same as mine)?
> I am wondering how big the gap between the HE-1 and the stock 009s is, compared to the change in sound with and without rubber bands to increase the clamping force on the 009s.



I posted more details in another topic awhile back. I'll see if I can find it. Been too long to go by memory. I strongly recommend trying to hear the HE-1 for yourself. It is a worthwhile experience even if you have no plans to buy.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Strange thing to increase the clamping force on the 009s as pads are a bit soft and thin (and not very angled) compared to 007. When I hear the effect on shrinking the cavity between eardrum and driver for the same driver (for instance from Sigma Pro to Lambda Signature), I would rather go the other way to get the more spacious feeling you may have with Sennheiser's stats, including HE-1. And also deal with the slight brightness / too fast character of 009, which is definitely accentuated when driver is closer to the ear.

Try the HE-1 and make your own mind. I think it's that simple 

Ali


----------



## bmichels

erik701 said:


> What's the transport/player in the top left corner? Btw nice Zonda Cinque model



it is a *Boulder 2120 DAC/Renderer *($60,000).    I wish @pham could tell us a little bit about this TOL gear.


----------



## Tinkerer

Clean6eR said:


> Parts tester? I got a bench dmm.
> Im no pro with electronics but ill try pulling and testing the fets.
> 
> Is it true that beige resistors are carbon and blue metal? if so ill switch out any beige ones, and try to figure out if the ones in the signal path are matched well and change them out if i can find better pairs.
> ...



Yeah, blue are metal film. Don't bother with .1%. 1% is just fine at a fraction of the cost. Just use CMF60 Dale series. The reason you want good metal film over others is it tends to be more precise in terms of value and drifts less as it ages. The amps are worth between $100 and $200 depending on the market


----------



## thinker (Aug 9, 2017)

we are testing and comparing end of August Phenomenon Libratum/Canorum and 007mk1 ,maybe i report something ,phones will
tested with Quad Transdyn amplifier


----------



## statfi

Ali-Pacha said:


> Strange thing to increase the clamping force on the 009s as pads are a bit soft and thin (and not very angled) compared to 007. When I hear the effect on shrinking the cavity between eardrum and driver for the same driver (for instance from Sigma Pro to Lambda Signature), I would rather go the other way to get the more spacious feeling you may have with Sennheiser's stats, including HE-1. And also deal with the slight brightness / too fast character of 009, which is definitely accentuated when driver is closer to the ear.
> 
> ...
> 
> Ali



Increased clamping force makes the recording space much easier to hear, by allowing your brain to more easily separate direct from reverberant sound.  I *suspect* that the mechanism is that your head becomes an acoustic ground, or damper, for the ear cups, allowing them to move less in response to the motion of the diaphragms.  Motion of the diaphragms puts force on the ear cups, both due to the minute mass but possibly more importantly due to radiation resistance (i.e., air pressure).  As with loudspeakers, you want all of the structure except for the "cones" to be stationary.  The very minute reactions of the cups appears (to me) to not only blur the distinction between direct and ambient sound, but also to blur the locations of performers (in one dimension) and the timbres of instruments (in quite a different dimension.)  I agree, I need to try to find a pair of HE-1's to hear...


----------



## Ali-Pacha (Aug 9, 2017)

Not convinced (at all) through my experience, as this effect looks to me like second (or above) order compared to eardrum / driver distance, but maybe you're extremely sensitive to the softness of the pads (that's how I understand the effect you describe)...or your 009's pads are softer than mine.
@arnaud is an engineer and did some FE modelling of 009 driver, maybe he could give some clue about this.
In any case, Sennheiser's estat pads are significantly stiffer than Stax's 

Ali


----------



## Whitigir

I can't perceive any changes in the cramping force of the 009 either...I do know for sure is that I need to wear my glasses so there is some vents out to further prevent Stax Fart...if I take out my glasses, it farts so often that it could blow my mind....that is some hell of a good sealing effects


----------



## bmichels (Aug 11, 2017)

I am *reducing by half the lengh of my SR009 cable*.  I am feed up walking on thé 2,5 meter long cable. One day I will take me in the cable and damage my phone or my BHSE amp...

I have already desolded the wire, and I now start the cable lenght reduction.  Next step will be to sold the (shorter) cable back

Question (expecialy for Stax maintenance approved people) :* is Stax is using standard Tin soldering or some special soldering like Silver based soldering ?*


----------



## joseph69

bmichels said:


> I am *reducing by half the lengh of my SR009 cable*.  I am feed up walking on thé 2,5 meter long cable. One day I will take me in the cable and damage my phone or my amp...


 Why would you do such a thing?
Why wouldn't you have just folded the remains slack in the cable and used a small velcro strap to secure it to your amp?


----------



## Whitigir

joseph69 said:


> Why would you do such a thing?
> Why wouldn't you have just folded the remains slack in the cable and used a small velcro strap to secure it to your amp?


Because he want Portability without too much hassle.


bmichels said:


> I am *reducing by half the lengh of my SR009 cable*.  I am feed up walking on thé 2,5 meter long cable. One day I will take me in the cable and damage my phone or my BHSE amp...
> 
> I have already desolded the wire, and I now start the cable lenght reduction.  Next step will be to sold the (shorter) cable back
> 
> Question (expecialy for Stax maintenance approved people) :* is Stax is using standard Tin soldering or some special soldering like Silver based soldering ?*


I doubt anyone can answer you about this, unless Stax can confirm, but my guess is that they use Standard no lead solder, and nothing really special


----------



## joseph69

Whitigir said:


> Because he want Portability without too much hassle.


I understand he's using the 009 as a portable set up, but the cable folds very conveniently as well as neatly into itself...like how it arrives from the factory in the box.


----------



## bmichels

joseph69 said:


> I understand he's using the 009 as a portable set up, but the cable folds very conveniently as well as neatly into itself...like how it arrives from the factory in the box.



Too late ....


----------



## soren_brix

bmichels said:


> I am *reducing by half the lengh of my SR009 cable*.  I am feed up walking on thé 2,5 meter long cable. One day I will take me in the cable and damage my phone or my BHSE amp...
> 
> I have already desolded the wire, and I now start the cable lenght reduction.  Next step will be to sold the (shorter) cable back
> 
> Question (expecialy for Stax maintenance approved people) :* is Stax is using standard Tin soldering or some special soldering like Silver based soldering ?*


seems like you really, really want to have a shorter cable , and is really really not satisfied with winding up some of it and tighten it with a rubberband...much likeJoseph69 suggest.
OK then ... why not, cut out some length in the middle, strip the ends, use some heat shrinking tubes to cover up the joints you solder to re-join, and call it a day.
That way you preserve the jack and the terminal-end fasten in the phone itself ...the last part is rather critical as this is where many 007 actually breaks ...and since you use it for a portable setup, I'd say it is even more important 

Also you probably want to be really, really careful about how much solder you use for soldering the thin wires inside the phone ... they are brittle as hell, and liberate heat and solder won't improve much here


----------



## bmichels

soren_brix said:


> seems like you really, really want to have a shorter cable , and is really really not satisfied with winding up some of it and tighten it with a rubberband...much likeJoseph69 suggest.
> OK then ... why not, cut out some length in the middle, strip the ends, use some heat shrinking tubes to cover up the joints you solder to re-join, and call it a day.
> That way you preserve the jack and the terminal-end fasten in the phone itself ...the last part is rather critical as this is where many 007 actually breaks ...and since you use it for a portable setup, I'd say it is even more important
> 
> Also you probably want to be really, really careful about how much solder you use for soldering the thin wires inside the phone ... they are brittle as hell, and liberate heat and solder won't improve much here



I thought about your suggestion but this will have added an extra solding connection in the signal path.  I do not know if this would have impacted the sound if not. So in case...


----------



## soren_brix

bmichels said:


> I thought about your suggestion but this will have added an extra solding connection in the signal path.  I do not know if this would have impacted the sound if not. So in case...


 ... messing up the connection at the housing will surely impact the sound ...


----------



## bmichels

soren_brix said:


> ... messing up the connection at the housing will surely impact the sound ...



I agree.  So... wish me good luck


----------



## mulveling (Aug 11, 2017)

bmichels said:


> I agree.  So... wish me good luck


Tonight I observe a moment of silence for bmichels' SR-009. This 009 was beautiful and strong (like most of its kind), but pressed into portable service it was not equipped for


----------



## Jones Bob (Aug 12, 2017)

bmichels said:


> Too late ....



Too bad, good luck! 

I would have taken the length off the plug end of the cable using this:
https://www.moon-audio.com/stax-5-pin-din.html


----------



## wink

Alas poor SR-009, I loved it well.......


----------



## nepherte

@bmichels Dont worry Bertrand. After you failed to reassemble your 009, I might be willing to sell mine at a premium "heretic" fee


----------



## hpeter

bmichels said:


> I am *reducing by half the lengh of my SR009 cable*.  I am feed up walking on thé 2,5 meter long cable. One day I will take me in the cable and damage my phone or my BHSE amp...
> 
> I have already desolded the wire, and I now start the cable lenght reduction.  Next step will be to sold the (shorter) cable back
> 
> Question (expecialy for Stax maintenance approved people) :* is Stax is using standard Tin soldering or some special soldering like Silver based soldering ?*


 RoHS - silver solder will minimize tin whiskers


----------



## hpeter

mulveling said:


> Tonight I observe a moment of silence for bmichels' SR-009. This 009 was beautiful and strong (like most of its kind), but pressed into portable service it was not equipped for


open cans+portable= PITA
i can´t say how much annoying it is, if room is not DEAD quiet. 
One day, i gonna kill the neigbour´s parrot, repeating every  BS endlessly... ANNOYING


----------



## wink

Pleasant listening....





...


----------



## XLR8

The future of electrostatic listening


----------



## astrostar59

Is it this place?


----------



## wink

....


----------



## bmichels (Aug 14, 2017)

I am happy to report that my SR009 is still alive and it sound very very good ( better?) with 1,4 meters less of cable 





Finally my câble do not lay on the floor or in my feets (dangerous).



Note: The mod was made easier thank to my other mod that allow it to lay flat in order to fit in a slim transportabla case with the SP1000 and the kingsound portable Amp ( more on this later).



Details of the mod with pictures can be posted in this Stax thread if someone is interested.


----------



## musicday

bmichels said:


> I am happy to report that my SR009 is still alive and it sound very very good ( better?) with 1,4 meters less of cable
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congratulations, you finally did it. I always wanted Stax 009 to have a shorter cable, or when you order it to be able to get it with 1.2 M long cable. I do not like heavy or long cables. Please post photos and details of the modification when you have time as i am sure many will be interested.
Not many 009 owners are as brave as you


----------



## JimL11 (Aug 14, 2017)

To change the topic, the Stax Mafia have secured an internal pic of the Trilogy amp, which they have published on another website, and apparently it resembles the old Stax SRX circuit, with coupling capacitor between stages, direct coupled outputs, and uses plate resistor outputs.  One change from the SRX circuit is that, per the Trilogy website, it does not use overall feedback.

As Kevin Gilmore has pointed out in the past, electrostatic headphone amps with no overall negative feedback tend to drift.

As I have posted in the past, electrostatic headphone amps with resistor load outputs, whether tube or transistor, are non-optimum designs.  They waste most of their current output in the resistor load, leaving only a small fraction that actually drives the headphones.  This not only results in reduced efficiency, but also lower peak output, higher distortion, and relatively soft bass.

As an example, the Stax amps all have pretty much the same power supply voltages (+/-350 volts).  Their tube output amps have resistor output loads, whereas their solid state output amps have constant current loads.  Most of the difference in their specified peak output voltages is due to the difference in the output loads rather than the difference between tubes and transistors.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Hello everyone.

I was away from home for four months, so I packed my SR-009 in its box before I left. Upon opening the box when I returned, I found that it has been infested with fungus as in the photos below. Please tell me that it is still alive and that the fungus can be gotten rid of. Thank you very much for any and every help that you can provide.


----------



## behwatch

OMG! Time for a earpad change first.


----------



## chinsettawong

I would take out the sponge and try washing them first.


----------



## Mars Bar

Here's what I recommend. Mould particles are very fine and when disturbed are airboure quickly, so you have to be very careful not to disturb as much as possible.
Dampen the edge corner of a soft cloth in white vinegar, ring out, and gently clean off the pads.
I would then carefully take out the centre pads and soak in white vinegar. 

Dry everything thoroughly. 

The vinegar smell will fad over time, but will kill the mould.

Hopefully this is enough. You may need to use a leather softener to refresher up the pads. I think it looks worse than what it appears. 

Good luck!


----------



## ahnafakeef

Thank you all very much for your prompt responses. I really appreciate it.



behwatch said:


> OMG! Time for a earpad change first.


I wish I could do that, but the earpads aren't available to me locally, and I'd leave home again by the time it would take for me to import them here (importing is a very lengthy process for me).


chinsettawong said:


> I would take out the sponge and try washing them first.


Could you please elaborate on that? What do you mean by "sponge", and how would you recommend washing them?


Mars Bar said:


> Here's what I recommend. Mould particles are very fine and when disturbed are airboure quickly, so you have to be very careful not to disturb as much as possible.
> Dampen the edge corner of a soft cloth in white vinegar, ring out, and gently clean off the pads.
> I would then carefully take out the centre pads and soak in white vinegar.
> 
> ...


I have zero knowledge of how to disassemble the headphones, so I'm not sure how I would go about taking out the centre pads. I understand the procedure for cleaning the earpads (rub with vineagar-dampened cloth), but I could really use a more detailed set of instructions as to how I should clean the inside part (netted pads?).

Thanks again for your help.


----------



## soren_brix

Congrat, you really seem to have pulled it off ;o)


> Details of the mod with pictures can be posted in this Stax thread if someone is interested.


Please do, will be highly appreciated


----------



## bmichels (Aug 15, 2017)

Seems that there are quite some good MODs available for the SR007, but....* are there some (good) MODs for the SR009 to make it more relaxing while preserving all it's details & precision ?  *


----------



## bmichels (Aug 15, 2017)

musicday said:


> Congratulations, you finally did it. I always wanted Stax 009 to have a shorter cable, or when you order it to be able to get it with 1.2 M long cable. I do not like heavy or long cables. Please post photos and details of the modification when you have time as i am sure many will be interested.
> Not many 009 owners are as brave as you



By popular demand, *here is the process I used to reduce the length of my Stax009 cable* from 2,5 meter down to 1,1 meter.

Note that I took the hard way by cutting the cable on the Headphone side, but that it can be MUCH EASIER is you have a Stax plug like this one and you cut the cable at the plug side. But... it will not look stock anymore.

Also note that the operation have been made easier thanks to the other mod that I have done that allows the SR009 to lay flat (to be transportable in a slim case)


- First you need this type of screwdriver (The model on the left, not the one on the right with a sharper angle) to remove the pads (after you have removed the black fabric disk that protect the drivers inside).

Note: Before you remove the pads, make a note how they are positioned on the cups (the Sewing of the pads should face the back)


  

- And then you have access to the wire soldering.

  

- BEFORE you unsold, Take pictures to make sure you will remember which wires goes to left and which goes to right, and how they are organized.

Please *be VERY VERY careful not to heat too much the wires during the un-soldering. *You do NOT want to melt the membrane....  (the tiny wires remain in place, they are here to avoid the heat to reach the membrane)

  

- You then cut the cable to the desired lenght, and also cut the plastic spacer in 2 halves. You remove the old plastic insulator from the previous cable, and you then have 2 parts ready to be glued together again around the cable.

  

- You do the same with each of the 2 terminals, and you cut the cable and make the pre-soldering before you glue again the 2 parts of each plastic terminal together around the cables.

  

- And bingo.... you have a new shorter cable ready to be solded back.  Again *be VERY VERY careful not to heat too much the wires during the soldering. You do NOT want to melt the membrane....
*
See the lengh of extra cable that was removed.  It is longueur than the final cable...




 

- Here is the final baby.

 

Finally my Cable do not lay dangerously on the floor 





Feel free to contact if you have any question....


----------



## musicday

Tell me please how does 009+ M-03 sounds with movies and YouTube in general? Do you still get that micro details and big soundstage or this applies only to high quality music. I would like to use this combo for watching movies also.Once i get the 009 i am planning to cut the cable short 1.2 m to use in bed


----------



## bmichels

musicday said:


> Tell me please how does 009+ M-03 sounds with movies and YouTube in general? Do you still get that micro details and big soundstage or this applies only to high quality music. I would like to use this combo for watching movies also.Once i get the 009 i am planning to cut the cable short 1.2 m to use in bed



I am sorry but I can't help. I never tried my Stax with movies ou YouTube. Only from my DAC/Music server


----------



## ahnafakeef

Can anyone please provide me a guide on how I can remove the centre pads from the headphones so that I can clean the mould with vinegar? Thank you.


----------



## bmichels

ahnafakeef said:


> Can anyone please provide me a guide on how I can remove the centre pads from the headphones so that I can clean the mould with vinegar? Thank you.



1. Remove the inner dust grill through the ear pad opening (by gently bending it inwards and pulling out). This will leave the wire mesh visible, and the upper black metallic ring which is mounted with 6 screws. You will need to loosen the screws next.
2. By pushing the ear cushions aside, use a precision Phillips screwdriver and open 4 turns on each of the 6 screws, going round and in diagonal like with car wheel change. Calm, soft, careful movements.

Assembly is in reverse order.


----------



## ahnafakeef

bmichels said:


> 1. Remove the inner dust grill through the ear pad opening (by gently bending it inwards and pulling out). This will leave the wire mesh visible, and the upper black metallic ring which is mounted with 6 screws. You will need to loosen the screws next.
> 2. By pushing the ear cushions aside, use a precision Phillips screwdriver and open 4 turns on each of the 6 screws, going round and in diagonal like with car wheel change. Calm, soft, careful movements.
> 
> Assembly is in reverse order.


Thanks for the prompt response. Is there any chance that I can get rid of the mould without disassembling the headphones? I'm not much of a tinkerer when it comes to these things, so I really want to avoid the risk if I can.


----------



## bmichels

ahnafakeef said:


> Thanks for the prompt response. Is there any chance that I can get rid of the mould without disassembling the headphones? I'm not much of a tinkerer when it comes to these things, so I really want to avoid the risk if I can.



what do you mean by "mould " ? 

Have you seen my cable modification few pots back ? There are some pictures that could help you ?


----------



## JimL11 (Aug 16, 2017)

musicday said:


> Tell me please how does 009+ M-03 sounds with movies and YouTube in general?



If by M-03, you mean the Kingsound, I wouldn't advise that amp, or any Kingsound amp, because as far as I know, none of them have output safety resistors that all the modern Stax amps have to protect the headphone diaphragmsin case of amp failure.  I haven't seen the schematic of the M-03, but I have seen the schematics of both the M-10 and M20 that Kevin Gilmore published, and neither of those amps have safety resistors.  If you want a small cheap stat amp, the SRM-252 is a better bet.  It won't provide the ultimate in sound quality but at least your headphones are protected if things go south.


----------



## soren_brix

bmichels said:


> By popular demand, *...*
> 
> Feel free to contact if you have any question....


That is nicely done ... thumbs up!


----------



## bmichels

JimL11 said:


> If by M-03, you mean the Kingsound, I wouldn't advise that amp, or any Kingsound amp, because as far as I know, none of them have output safety resistors that all the modern Stax amps have to protect the headphone diaphragmsin case of amp failure.  I haven't seen the schematic of the M-03, but I have seen the schematics of both the M-10 and M20 that Kevin Gilmore published, and neither of those amps have safety resistors.  If you want a small cheap stat amp, the SRM-252 is a better bet.  It won't provide the ultimate in sound quality but at least your headphones are protected if things go south.



Well I am using now the KingSound M-03 on a regular basis with my Stax009 when I am traveling and... I really love it.  *The sound of M-03 + SE009, while of course not matching SR009 with my BHSE, is still one of the BEST of all my portable set-up.* 

And... I never experienced any problem with the M-03 driving the Stax SR009.... so far

Plus the fact that the M-03 offer... *50 hours of battery life ( !! ) w*ith the Stax and has a 5 volts USB out,  allow me to also use it as a Battery Bank to recharge my A&K SP1000 DAP !


----------



## JimL11

bmichels said:


> And... I never experienced any problem with the M-03 driving the Stax SR009.... so far



And you may not.  As long as the amp is working OK, shouldn't be a problem.  It's just if the output shorts and the whole PS is dumped into the diaphragm that bad things can occur.  It's a bit like driving without seat belts - as long as nothing happens you're OK.  Granted, not likely.  I would open up the amp and see if you can solder 5.1 kilohm resistors between the amp output and the output terminals.  May or may not be possible (i.e., if the output terminal is soldered directly to the circuit board you may not have space), but it would provide that extra safety measure.


----------



## soren_brix

JimL11 said:


> And you may not.  As long as the amp is working OK, shouldn't be a problem.  It's just if the output shorts and the whole PS is dumped into the diaphragm that bad things can occur.  It's a bit like driving without seat belts - as long as nothing happens you're OK.  Granted, not likely.  I would open up the amp and see if you can solder 5.1 kilohm resistors between the amp output and the output terminals.  May or may not be possible (i.e., if the output terminal is soldered directly to the circuit board you may not have space), but it would provide that extra safety measure.












... looks like there are a few caps and diodes to make a Cockroft-multiplier and 1Meg resistor (R10) close to the jack ... and a pair of transformers ...doesn't that resembles a mini SRD7 ?


----------



## musicday

I am looking for a portable ( battery operated ) electrostatic amplifier with long battery life to drive 009 fairly good, and there are not many options out there, but the M-03 sounds really nice,i tried Michael's combination.


----------



## wink

JimL11 said:


> (snip)  I would open up the amp and see if you can solder 5 *Meg*ohm resistors between the amp output and the output terminals. (snip).



FTFY


----------



## kevin gilmore (Aug 16, 2017)

no actually 5.1k resistors. but actually primarily for otl amplifiers that can output DC. this kingsound is a transformer based amp.
but adding those resistors cannot be a bad idea


----------



## bmichels

So, since my soldering iron is still hot, can someone point on one of the two above pictures, where exactly I should sold them ?


----------



## Jones Bob

wink said:


> FTFY



You might be thinking of the pro bias current limiting resistor.


----------



## kevin gilmore

you would put the 4 x 5.1k resistors in series with the 4 headphone outputs.  which means some cut and jumps.

easiest way would be to get some surface mount resistors and use those. 1/8 watt is plenty


----------



## bmichels

kevin gilmore said:


> you would put the 4 x 5.1k resistors in series with the 4 headphone outputs.  which means some cut and jumps.
> 
> easiest way would be to get some surface mount resistors and use those. 1/8 watt is plenty




" in series with the 4 headphone outputs. " !   This will not dramaticaly reduce the volume output ?  how does 5.1k compare to the resistance of the Stax ?


----------



## JimL11

Jones Bob said:


> You might be thinking of the pro bias current limiting resistor.



Yeah, I mis-spoke.  The outputs are not going to dump into the diaphragm but the bias supply could.  The 5.1 KILohm resistors are for the outputs - much less of an issue with a transformer coupled amp, but won't hurt.  But agree that a 5.1 MEGohm resistor is a very good idea for the bias supply if there isn't one between the last capacitor and the bias terminal.  As for the 5.1 kilohm output resistors, the SR-009 has an impedance of 145 kilohms at 10 kHz, or 72.5 kilohm at 20 kHz, and progressively higher at lower frequencies, so 5.1 kilohms is going to be negligible in terms of decreasing amp output or reducing high frequency output.


----------



## soren_brix

wink said:


> FTFY


Really? are you in for a high fq roll off by any chance?


----------



## soren_brix

bmichels said:


> " in series with the 4 headphone outputs. " !   This will not dramaticaly reduce the volume output ?  how does 5.1k compare to the resistance of the Stax ?













and most likely there are similar traces on the back side as well ...


----------



## kevin gilmore

Also on the other side would be the bias connection, need picture


----------



## JimL11

soren_brix said:


> Really? are you in for a high fq roll off by any chance?



Yeah, 5.1 megohms on the outputs would roll of the output signal above about 284 Hz - not exactly a high frequency rolloff since middle C on the piano is about 261 Hz.


----------



## wink

My bad.......

I was thinking of the resistor in the bias supply.

Fools jump in, and all that apply here.......


----------



## musicday (Aug 17, 2017)

I think i read somewhere that Kingsound M-03 is recommended for other electrostatic headphones such as Stax. Why not you guys email them first and ask? They are quite responsive.
Don't fix it if ain't broken


----------



## soren_brix

JimL11 said:


> Yeah, 5.1 megohms on the outputs would roll of the output signal above about 284 Hz - not exactly a high frequency rolloff since middle C on the piano is about 261 Hz.


high frequency roll off just means that frequencies higher than a certain frequency is attenuated - but probably easier to discuss how this relates to a piano rather than relate to all your postings about the KingSound amp being dangerous due to missing ballast resistors, when it actually seems like it is no an amp, but a step-up with a BIAS supply rather, and there seems to be 1Meg in series with the BIAS supply, so it pretty much resembles all the Stax SRD7 boxes out there ...


----------



## bmichels

musicday said:


> Don't fix it if ain't broken



+1


----------



## Ali-Pacha

musicday said:


> I think i read somewhere that Kingsound M-03 is recommended for other electrostatic headphones such as Stax. Why not you guys email them first and ask? They are quite responsive.
> Don't fix it if ain't broken


Mmmh...do you know whom you're talking to ? 

Ali


----------



## Whitigir

Ali-Pacha said:


> Mmmh...do you know whom you're talking to ?
> 
> Ali


I don't think they do , just pure innocence hehehe


----------



## musicday

Ali-Pacha said:


> Mmmh...do you know whom you're talking to ?
> 
> Ali


Thrilla in Manilla ?


----------



## JimL11 (Aug 17, 2017)

Well, I admit some of what I've posted is guessing, since I've never looked inside an M-03.  However, it is specified for 300 VRMS into electrostatics, and also 3 VRMS into a 1 kHz load via a 3.5 mm jack, which tells me it has to have some kind of amp inside, presumably going directly into the 3.5 mm jack, and using a transformer step-up for the electrostatic load, and also a bias supply for the electrostatic.  The SRD7 was a transformer and bias supply, but no amp, so a somewhat different animal.  If the bias supply has a 1 megohm resistor out, as Soren says, then it would be reasonable to replace it with a 5 megohm resistor for Stax headphones. The transformer outputs, which I didn't know about when I first posted, but should have guessed given the specifications for both regular and electrostatic headphones - my bad, makes the 5.1 kilohm resistor for the electrostatic headphone outputs unnecessary.

BTW, the SRD-7 has been long obsolete.  The last version of the SRD7 used 2.2 megohm resistors from the bias supply, but all the current Stax amps use a 5 megohm resistor, which is why I recommended that value.


----------



## soren_brix

JimL11 said:


> If the bias supply has a 1 megohm resistor out, as Soren says, then it would be reasonable to replace it with a 5 megohm resistor for Stax headphones


looks like (not saying that it is so, Jim) ...and it looks like there are a voltage multiplier before the 1Meg resistor ... the voltage will drop pretty fast when you plugin the headphone, until it is fully charged ... I assume the 1Meg is probably a compromise for charging time ... anyways, if it is 1Meg rather than 5Meg, does it still constitute a "dangerous" amp?  ...


----------



## JimL11 (Aug 17, 2017)

soren_brix said:


> looks like (not saying that it is so, Jim) ...and it looks like there are a voltage multiplier before the 1Meg resistor ... the voltage will drop pretty fast when you plugin the headphone, until it is fully charged ... I assume the 1Meg is probably a compromise for charging time ... anyways, if it is 1Meg rather than 5Meg, does it still constitute a "dangerous" amp?  ...



I don't know if it is dangerous.  I just figure Stax knew what it was doing when they specified a 5 megohm resistor (either 4.7 or 5.1 megohms is close enough).  Sennheiser, for example, apparently specified a 10 megohm resistor for their bias supply for the HE90, so people who build amps for the Sennheiser use 10 megohm bias resistors for them. Most Stax headphones (aside from the SR002/3) have a capacitance of approximately 100 pf stator-to-stator, so since the membrane is half-way between stators, figure 200 pf capacitance stator-to-membrane (think of the stator-membrane-stator as two capacitors in series).  With a 5 megohm resistor, the RC time constant is approximately 1/1000 of a second - close enough for government work, as the saying goes.  Actual charging time is probably slower than that as the membrane should have a high resistivity so the charge won't migrate when the membrane vibrates - you want the charge to remain "fixed" on the membrane for good linearity.  In any case, the 5 megohm resistor is probably not the limiting factor in how fast the membrane charges, but since the preceding capacitor in the bias supply is usually 0.1 uf, which is 500-1000x higher than the capacitance of the headphones, the resistor helps prevent that bias cap from dumping too much charge too quickly onto the diaphragm should the worst happen.


----------



## soren_brix

JimL11 said:


> I don't know if it is dangerous.  ....


 OK.


----------



## musicday

"  M-03 is compatible with other electrostatic headphones provided they are using the same connector as STAX used. Of courier, to have a perfect matching, using electrostatic headphone & amplifier from the same factory is preferred. "


----------



## ChaseM

Tried to search for this but can't find the info. Does anyone have any info on changing the pads on a 007MK1? I'm getting a new set in Monday. Thanks for any help!


----------



## statfi

bmichels said:


> By popular demand, *here is the process I used to reduce the length of my Stax009 cable* from 2,5 meter down to 1,1 meter.
> ...
> Also note that the operation have been made easier thanks to the other mod that I have done that allows the SR009 to lay flat (to be transportable in a slim case)
> ....



Nice job and write-up!  Is "the other mod" written up as well?  If so, where?


----------



## georgep

rubenpp said:


> Pad replacement instructions from Stax provided by spritzer





ChaseM said:


> Tried to search for this but can't find the info. Does anyone have any info on changing the pads on a 007MK1? I'm getting a new set in Monday. Thanks for any help!



Searching "stax sr007 pad change" in google images led me to the post above...


----------



## ChaseM

Thanks! I looked on google and YouTube and could t come up with anything.


----------



## arnaud

@bmichels , that was courageous . I would have placed a sheet on top of the earcup in case some flux jumped around but perhaps the solder used did not have such coating?


----------



## bmichels (Aug 19, 2017)

statfi said:


> Nice job and write-up!  Is "the other mod" written up as well?  If so, where?



the other mod was to have the Stax earcups being able to lay flat so that I can carry them in a slim case.  

I just removed the 1 milimeter of plastic that is bellow the STAX aluminium plate, so that the earcup can rotate free


----------



## XLR8

Incredible mods.
Thumbsup


----------



## thinker

the Phenomenon Canorum report is coming end of this month a truly world class electrostatic headphone

The frequency response is smooth with a deep bass. They sound is beautiful and detailed.


----------



## Bitsir

Woah, those Phenomenon look sick. They look really next-level, probably sound that way too.

What price level are we looking at here?

Haven't ventured into the world of Electrostatics yet but my plan is to acquire the SR-L700 and the SRM-006Ts (Good combo? old amp tech at risk of crippling the new lambda?).


----------



## musicday

Have you experienced various cables 3.5 mm-3.5 mm copper, or silver to connect the M-03? Probably there is quite a lot of sound difference.


----------



## bmichels (Aug 19, 2017)

musicday said:


> Have you experienced various cables 3.5 mm-3.5 mm copper, or silver to connect the M-03? Probably there is quite a lot of sound difference.



Yes I tried 3 type

- the shortest is all copper.
- the 10 cm long is copper-Silver
- the longest one is all silver from DHC

The best sound for me is the copper-silver. It was made for me (150€) by LABKABLE ASIA LIMITED. It is their Pandora 8 wire model.

The All copper sounded "dull" and the DHC all silver is a little agressive (at least with the SR009, but may be perfect with a warmer SR007 ? )


----------



## musicday

Thanks, is this setup better sounding for you then Shure electrostatic?


----------



## LestatMK

Bitsir said:


> Woah, those Phenomenon look sick. They look really next-level, probably sound that way too.
> 
> What price level are we looking at here?
> 
> Haven't ventured into the world of Electrostatics yet but my plan is to acquire the SR-L700 and the SRM-006Ts (Good combo? old amp tech at risk of crippling the new lambda?).


Please have in mind 353x as an alternative to 006, as I am also about to pull the trigger on l700, I tried both amps. The 353x has clearly an edge on many things, among others, clarity and transparency, tightness, and slam. In comparison the 006 although pricier is slightly laid back, softer and muddy on the lows. Anyhow be sure to listen before choosing!


----------



## Bitsir

LestatMK said:


> Please have in mind 353x as an alternative to 006, as I am also about to pull the trigger on l700, I tried both amps. The 353x has clearly an edge on many things, among others, clarity and transparency, tightness, and slam. In comparison the 006 although pricier is slightly laid back, softer and muddy on the lows. Anyhow be sure to listen before choosing!


Woah ok that makes the decision a bit less obvious. I was thinking the 006Ts would calm the supposedly bright tendencies of the L700, but not at the expense of muddiness and looseness.

Your insight has me leaning towards the 353x now, thanks!


----------



## astrostar59

Bitsir said:


> Woah ok that makes the decision a bit less obvious. I was thinking the 006Ts would calm the supposedly bright tendencies of the L700, but not at the expense of muddiness and looseness.
> 
> Your insight has me leaning towards the 353x now, thanks!



Thought of looking for a used KGSShv?


----------



## statfi

Ali-Pacha said:


> Not convinced (at all) through my experience, as this effect looks to me like second (or above) order compared to eardrum / driver distance, but maybe you're extremely sensitive to the softness of the pads (that's how I understand the effect you describe)...or your 009's pads are softer than mine.
> @arnaud is an engineer and did some FE modelling of 009 driver, maybe he could give some clue about this.
> In any case, Sennheiser's estat pads are significantly stiffer than Stax's
> 
> Ali


I do not understand what you mean by being "extremely sensitive to the softness of the pads".   Please clarify.
I do encourage you to add to your "experience" by hearing the 009's with increased clamping force: its cheap (!), its reversible (!) and (I agree) its 2nd order: e.g., it does not affect the spectral balance (much).  Its very akin to putting loudspeakers on spiked feet instead of letting them just rest on carpet in the same place.
I would be very, very interested in learning about arnaud's FEM


----------



## Ali-Pacha

statfi said:


> I do encourage you to add to your "experience" by hearing the 009's with increased clamping force: its cheap (!), its reversible (!) and (I agree) its 2nd order: e.g., it does not affect the spectral balance (much).  Its very akin to putting loudspeakers on spiked feet instead of letting them just rest on carpet in the same place.


Been there, done that. Sounded exactly the way I describe it : narrower soundstage, all around brighter balance. Both things thare are going the wrong way IMO considering the stock nature of 009.

Ali


----------



## statfi

bmichels said:


> Seems that there are quite some good MODs available for the SR007, but....* are there some (good) MODs for the SR009 to make it more relaxing while preserving all it's details & precision ?  *



As described, previously, ad nauseum, increase the clamping force with multiple, big thick rubber bands.  "More relaxing"?  Well, it depends what you mean.  The soundscape is more open ("relaxed"?).  In order to hear the same level of detail, the required volume is lower.  There is no question that this increases "it's details and precision".  On the other hand, the >3x force on your skull takes some getting used to, as I have.


----------



## statfi

Ali-Pacha said:


> Been there, done that. Sounded exactly the way I describe it : narrower soundstage, all around brighter balance. Both things thare are going the wrong way IMO considering the stock nature of 009.
> 
> Ali


Ah. Got it.  Sorry.  I am curious because your characterization of the change is so different from mine, can you guestimate how much you increased the force?  Double?  Triple?  Cheers.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

statfi said:


> Ah. Got it.  Sorry.  *I am curious because your characterization of the change is so different from mine*, can you guestimate how much you increased the force?  Double?  Triple?  Cheers.


That's the core of this hobby : targeting reviews from people who hear more or less like you.

Recently, I've encountered someone who did find 009 warm sounding and SRX mk3 Pro without bass. I also encountered people who loved Shangri-La, absolutely not bothered by what I've heard from them (cymbaling and annoying highs). I've also read very extensive reviews stating Audeze are the most neutral cans out there, maybe with a pinch of brightness. So be it, but I don't hear the same thing.

With your mod, I can guarantee you're definitely hearing something aside the majority. Doesn't mean you're wrong, only you've different perception from this majority. As I have in another area : most of edyn or ortho cans have some isolated peak above 7 khz (8, 9 or 10 khz most of the time). I'm pretty disturbed by that. Most of hobbyists don't, bearing what is to me infamous irregularity in the highs...and explaining somehow the Harman compensation curve.

Ali


----------



## musicday (Aug 20, 2017)

Have anyone tried Kingsound M-03 with Stax L700? I am new to the electrostatic world and i don't want to buy the very high end earspeaker before i don't get used to the sound.
My main criteria beside sound is portability that's why i am wondering if M-03 can drive L700 properly. If i get this combo i am planning to cut the cable to be 1.2 M long.
Also can someone explain if the electrostatic headphones sound great if you watch movies,play games etc?
I will need to go and try few pairs soon


----------



## Thaudiophile

thinker said:


> the Phenomenon Canorum report is coming end of this month a truly world class electrostatic headphone
> 
> The frequency response is smooth with a deep bass. They sound is beautiful and detailed.


Better than 009/007?


----------



## JimL11 (Aug 20, 2017)

thinker said:


> the Phenomenon Canorum report is coming end of this month a truly world class electrostatic headphone
> 
> The frequency response is smooth with a deep bass. They sound is beautiful and detailed.



There are a couple reports on this on another website.  A couple of reported issues are that they take about 20-30 min to charge up, and they do not have dust covers to protect the membrane, but the sound is potentially excellent. Also, the diaphragm coating may be hydroscopic as the sound varied with humidity.  These should be fixable issues.


----------



## thinker (Aug 21, 2017)

On the other website the guy who got the Libratum has the older version of the diaphragm, the Canorum version 2 has newest diaphragm and is not as critical about charging and also other issues have been solved.I get the report as soon i make comparisons with other Staxes.The Libratum version 1 i had 2 days on loan in my home and it was very promising.The owner of the Libratum version 1 has made recently some adjustments and i was educated that it is now excellent.I'm going to hear it soon again and compare it to the new Canorum.All Libratum phones from now on come with the new diaphgram.What i have compared so far SR-009 /007 will have hard times ahead.Not sure  i'm allowed to show the Libratum version 1 frequency response but anyway here it is ,the newer frequency response curve should be even better.


----------



## Thaudiophile

thinker said:


> On the other website the guy who got the Libratum has the older version of the diaphragm, the Canorum version 2 has newest diaphragm and is not as critical about charging and also other issues have been solved.I get the report as soon i make comparisons with other Staxes.The Libratum version 1 i had 2 days on loan in my home and it was very promising.The owner of the Libratum version 1 has made recently some adjustments and i was educated that it is now excellent.I'm going to hear it soon again and compare it to the new Canorum.All Libratum phones from now on come with the new diaphgram.What i have compared so far SR-009 /007 will have hard times ahead.Not sure  i'm allowed to show the Libratum version 1 frequency response but anyway here it is ,the newer frequency response curve should be even better.


What will be the price? What is its sound signature?If it's typical warm/lush sound then i wouldn't compare it to 009 because both have different sound signatures for different genres/purposes.


----------



## thinker

wait couple of days for impressions ,the price is a joke 1400-1600 USD, it should be much higher


----------



## Thaudiophile

thinker said:


> wait couple of days for impressions ,the price is a joke 1400-1600 USD, it should be much higher


Thank god, i will get that headphone instead of l700 if it's at least on 007/009 level.


----------



## Pokemonn

I will wait Stax 80th anniversary HP.


----------



## musicday

Pokemonn said:


> I will wait Stax 80th anniversary HP.


Anniversary headphone 010?


----------



## Pokemonn

musicday said:


> Anniversary headphone 010?


we dont know it yet. but probably the end game for my wallet. lol


----------



## Gjoel

Bitsir said:


> Woah ok that makes the decision a bit less obvious. I was thinking the 006Ts would calm the supposedly bright tendencies of the L700, but not at the expense of muddiness and looseness.
> 
> Your insight has me leaning towards the 353x now, thanks!




I have been out demoing L700 against 007mk2 this week in the local store. Think I was there around 2 hours alone. So did have all the time  needed. 

I'd did test them with srm-006 and srm-353x

I did find the L700 abit "bright/forward" on both amps. The 353x did have most clarity where the 006 did have the tube charm. 
Both amps did a good job, mostly a choice of preference. 

It was a different story with 007. 
Did start out with 353x, I did really enjoy that combo. When i changed to 006 I was very surprised. 
I did have a feeling of all the life in 007 was sucked out. Maybe missing power to drive 007 correct?

So imo I would differently not buy 006 with 007. 
But with L700 it's a matter of taste. 

At the end I did take 007 and 353x with me home. And have been smiling since


----------



## ZGojira

Gjoel said:


> I have been out demoing L700 against 007mk2 this week in the local store. Think I was there around 2 hours alone. So did have all the time  needed.
> 
> I'd did test them with srm-006 and srm-353x
> 
> ...



I also recently did a very similar comparison, but only between a 007A and L700 on a 006.  
Having already own the 009, I found the L700 to be too similar in a lot of ways but not quite as refined so I ended up walking out with the 007A.

However, I apart from finding the 006 + 007A combo a little warm and fuzzy (i.e. lacking in micro detail) and maybe a bit under powered, it wasn't too bad. 
Everything sounded wonderful again once I had it on my 727A.

Out of interest, what DAC did you use in the comparison?
I was using a marantz dac1 that they had in store with SE connections.


----------



## Gjoel

ZGojira said:


> I also recently did a very similar comparison, but only between a 007A and L700 on a 006.
> Having already own the 009, I found the L700 to be too similar in a lot of ways but not quite as refined so I ended up walking out with the 007A.
> 
> However, I apart from finding the 006 + 007A combo a little warm and fuzzy (i.e. lacking in micro detail) and maybe a bit under powered, it wasn't too bad.
> ...




They did use a QUAD preamp with balanced setup. 
Not sure how good it was. Better like my little mimby at home. 

An after thought, maybe the QUAD wasn't set at a fixed output lvl, hence the bad experience with 006..

Just looking to sell out my old dynamic gear and upgrade the dac. 
Looking at gumby and Danafrips Ares to run balanced.


----------



## ZGojira

Gjoel said:


> They did use a QUAD preamp with balanced setup.
> Not sure how good it was. Better like my little mimby at home.
> 
> An after thought, maybe the QUAD wasn't set at a fixed output lvl, hence the bad experience with 006..
> ...



With the sr-007, I would really encourage you to look at a better DAC than the ones your mentioned if your budget allows.  
I was not really impressed with either  ... YMMV


----------



## thinker (Aug 23, 2017)

Canorum pics,sounquality is impressive ,i come to it later


----------



## Whitigir

Woa, nice, really, how does it fair against 009 ?


----------



## Thaudiophile

Looks a lot like orpheus


----------



## thinker

Canorum on head picture, i cannot comment the sound yet,the seller said i have to run these couple of days before making reviews.A small issue is that drivers make some hiss noise and hope it disappers at some point.These appear warmer than Libratum wich i heard at some point


----------



## bearFNF

thinker said:


> Canorum on head picture, i cannot comment the sound yet,the seller said i have to run these couple of days before making reviews.A small issue is that drivers make some hiss noise and hope it disappers at some point.These appear warmer than Libratum wich i heard at some point


Is it just me or do those look huge?? 
As I have a big head it may not be an issue for me, but....


----------



## paradoxper

What amplifier is being used? Is the implication here that you did not buy these, then?


----------



## thinker (Aug 23, 2017)

I bought these and keep them, the big size is optical illusion.I use Quad amplifier wich suits excellent with Canorum and Staxes.The Libratum owner and the seller said that the sound develops when running couple of days so i wait .I'm listening with these already some hours and confirm it's somekind of mixture between 007/009


----------



## paradoxper

thinker said:


> I bought these and keep them, the big size is optical illusion.I use Quad amplifier wich suits excellent with Canorum and Staxes.The Caronum owner and the seller said that the sound develops when running couple of days so i wait I'm listening with these already some hours and confirm it's somekind of mixture between 007/009



Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## Whitigir

thinker said:


> I bought these and keep them, the big size is optical illusion.I use Quad amplifier wich suits excellent with Canorum and Staxes.The Libratum owner and the seller said that the sound develops when running couple of days so i wait .I'm listening with these already some hours and confirm it's somekind of mixture between 007/009


How is the vertical sound staging and tonal balances


----------



## thinker

The hiss is gone and the phone is now dead silent i think it was a humidity issue.The phone seems to need power something like Gilmore designs / Blue Hawaii etc.
The tonal balance is excellent and appear natural it's a relaxed sound like HE-90 and 007 but not as "hot" as 009.It's like a 009 with some warmth.Nothing is lost
deep in the soundstage everything is nicely presented on the" halfway" distance.It's not overly dynamic or nervous ,relaxed and natural comes to mind.If you compare to 007
the Stax appear little bit "sleepy" and the Canorum feels faster.


----------



## Thaudiophile

How does your amp compare to kgsshv/bhse/t2?


----------



## thinker

If you compare 009 /HE-90 and Omega 1 they are quite different from each other,the Canorum is the fourth take,it's closest to a mixture of HE-90 and Omega 1.It's not a detail monster like 009 wich makes you tired ,i had a listening session of 6 hours with Canorum without fatique.I can do the same long sessions with 007/ HE-90/Omega1.
I call the 009 a modern version of e-stats where you get pinpoint imaging and monster details but somehow the feeling/music is lost.The Canorum belongs clearly to the old style of e-stats where music comes first .The Canorum doesn't wow you it says sit down listen to me and take time to find out what i have to offer.Jazz at the Pawnshop was my reference recording,there are not many e-stats that can handle it,with most of them you are staying in the hallway looking into the club but with HE-90/Omega1 you are on the chair in the club the same with Canorum.With the 009 i have somehow the feeling that i'm little bit squeezed and i can't be part of the relaxed atmosphere.There are different "sizes" how phones present soundstaging orchestras etc.where Focal Utopia gives a small size and HD-800 a large size.On the large size are HE-90 /Omega1 and Canorum wich could be the largest of all e-stats, 007 appear smaller and 009 somewhere between.

(have to do more listening to find out any flaws in the Canorum)
the HE-90 occasionally is little bit "out of phase"  the Canorum appear to have the same feature,it's not a negative thing because it makes music sound more alive.


----------



## thinker

Thaudiophile said:


> How does your amp compare to kgsshv/bhse/t2?



the Quad amp doesn't fit with Canorum and had to switch over to Stax amp there is likely a problem with voltage feeding.


----------



## Thaudiophile

thinker said:


> If you compare 009 /HE-90 and Omega 1 they are quite different from each other,the Canorum is the fourth take,it's closest to a mixture of HE-90 and Omega 1.It's not a detail monster like 009 wich makes you tired ,i had a listening session of 6 hours with Canorum without fatique.I can do the same long sessions with 007/ HE-90/Omega1.
> I call the 009 a modern version of e-stats where you get pinpoint imaging and monster details but somehow the feeling/music is lost.The Canorum belongs clearly to the old style of e-stats where music comes first .The Canorum doesn't wow you it says sit down listen to me and take time to find out what i have to offer.Jazz at the Pawnshop was my reference recording,there are not many e-stats that can handle it,with most of them you are staying in the hallway looking into the club but with HE-90/Omega1 you are on the chair in the club the same with Canorum.With the 009 i have somehow the feeling that i'm little bit squeezed and i can't be part of the relaxed atmosphere.There are different "sizes" how phones present soundstaging orchestras etc.where Focal Utopia gives a small size and HD-800 a large size.On the large size are HE-90 /Omega1 and Canorum wich could be the largest of all e-stats, 007 appear smaller and 009 somewhere between.
> 
> (have to do more listening to find out any flaws in the Canorum)
> the HE-90 occasionally is little bit "out of phase"  the Canorum appear to have the same feature,it's not a negative thing because it makes music sound more alive.


So it sounds like orpheus clone then?


----------



## thinker

Probably the goal was more in the direction to Orpheus than Stax,it has the same kind of "larger than life" feature and the diaphragm are similar oval shape.The Libratum round shape is more linear and is closer to Omega1.


----------



## aldavey

Just an update on the issue I had with the SR009s. Sent back to Stax, respect to them for the speed of turn around. Received back today, all working OK, and back to loving my 009s with Mjolnir KGSS Carbon.


----------



## Whitigir

009 is not that detailed monster which makes one tired...not me and my Carbon or GG to the least


----------



## aldavey

+1 from me, KGSS Carbon and 009s I can listen for hour after hour in sonic bliss.


----------



## musicday

aldavey said:


> Just an update on the issue I had with the SR009s. Sent back to Stax, respect to them for the speed of turn around. Received back today, all working OK, and back to loving my 009s with Mjolnir KGSS Carbon.


Did they fix it or replace it? I am looking to buy 009 new and i am planning to use with movies also. Will i still get that big soundstage and micro details?


----------



## Whitigir

musicday said:


> Did they fix it or replace it? I am looking to buy 009 new and i am planning to use with movies also. Will i still get that big soundstage and micro details?



Movies ? Hell, I stream it with Netflix and YouTube from my iPad.  Hell, yes....a lot of those you mentioned, and you know what ? It feels like enjoying movies in big theaters thta has 80-100 speakers built in 

My 009 had scratches when it came, and Stax replaced it within a week (USA Stax)


----------



## aldavey

musicday said:


> Did they fix it or replace it? I am looking to buy 009 new and i am planning to use with movies also. Will i still get that big soundstage and micro details?


I Live in Tokyo so am lucky in that respect, and when I received them back it was like receiving a new pair of Phones, but the enclosed documentation is in Japanese so I've no idea if my 009s are new or repaired, but I'm listening to them as I write this and they sound bloody fantastic. A caveat, make sure you amplify them with a KG amp. I have a virtually unused 100v Stax 007 t going really cheap if anyone's interested. )


----------



## Whitigir

aldavey said:


> . A caveat, make sure you amplify them with a KG amp.  )



This needs to be repeated over and over again


----------



## Audio5 (Aug 24, 2017)

Hey guys, I've been watching this thread for a while now and I am planning on getting into the hifi game soon here. I currently just have sennheiser ie80 iems which I have been using straight from my laptop and galaxy s8 with spotify.

I would like to get into the relatively high end of audio without too many wasted steps in between. I will probably listen to Tidal hifi lossless streaming exclusivly. I was originally planning on getting stax l700s but after looking at and hearing some about the Phenomenom Canorums I am quite interested in those. I will probably wait a bit just to see how the reviews are first though.

My main questions come with setting up the rest of the system. I would like to keep my overall budget around 2000 so I am wondering if any amp/dac setup paired with either of these headphones would do the headphones justice. I am mostly wanting to get a kingsound m03 portable amp so that I can listen in different rooms in my apartment and even while walking around in my apartment. My biggest concern is if this amp would sell either headphone short in comparison with getting a used stax 353x or similar amp and a cheapish dac. Unfortunately I can't afford a nicer amp/dac setup right now so I just want to get headphones that will scale up well in the future. Will either of these amps with Tidal hifi sound decent or am I getting into too high end of headphones with not nice enough amps/source?  I would appreciate any advise people have on this situation. Thanks!!

Oh also I should specify that I mostly listen to pop and rock as well as music similar in style to the Chainsmokers. Will this music sound good with either of these systems or would you recommend going with something other than electrostatics?


----------



## behwatch (Aug 24, 2017)

Whitigir said:


> 009 is not that detailed monster which makes one tired...not me and my Carbon or GG to the least





aldavey said:


> +1 from me, KGSS Carbon and 009s I can listen for hour after hour in sonic bliss.


+1 No problems listening whole day
009s maybe too fatigue for some



musicday said:


> Did they fix it or replace it? I am looking to buy 009 new and i am planning to use with movies also. Will i still get that big soundstage and micro details?


Yes I'm using for everything my PC can play (games, movies and music). Don't really need to go to movie theaters that much anymore. Only pay cinemas for good movies.



Audio5 said:


> Hey guys, I've been watching this thread for a while now and I am planning on getting into the hifi game soon here. I currently just have sennheiser ie80 iems which I have been using straight from my laptop and galaxy s8 with spotify.
> 
> I would like to get into the relatively high end of audio without too many wasted steps in between. I will probably listen to Tidal hifi lossless streaming exclusivly. I was originally planning on getting stax l700s but after looking at and hearing some about the Phenomenom Canorums I am quite interested in those. I will probably wait a bit just to see how the reviews are first though.
> 
> ...



If L700 is the ultimate final pair of headphones then you can just grab it. Source is most important actually. I suggest grabbing a Denafrips Ares. Then add a little more money for a used 353x. This is for non mobile setup.


----------



## aldavey

Don't want to sound like a fanboy... but I've spent the last three weeks listening to my HD 800s while my 009s were away and now I've got them back what a a huge difference. Listening to Steve RV fan- bloody fantistic!! I'm there at the live performance. Thank you Stax and KG.


----------



## musicday (Aug 24, 2017)

Audio5 said:


> Hey guys, I've been watching this thread for a while now and I am planning on getting into the hifi game soon here. I currently just have sennheiser ie80 iems which I have been using straight from my laptop and galaxy s8 with spotify.
> 
> I would like to get into the relatively high end of audio without too many wasted steps in between. I will probably listen to Tidal hifi lossless streaming exclusivly. I was originally planning on getting stax l700s but after looking at and hearing some about the Phenomenom Canorums I am quite interested in those. I will probably wait a bit just to see how the reviews are first though.
> 
> ...


I am new to electrostatic world, but i have heard the Kingsound M-03 with 009 and it was stellar. The amp has more then enough power to drive them properly on the go.
Mine is coming today. If you want extra information PM.


----------



## thinker

Another 2 hours of listening,the dynamic range is enormous on Canorum the xylophone on Jazz at the Pawnshop goes from quite to loud on a very large scale,you have almost switch your volume control
during the play.Before i ordered Canorum i was concerned about the liquidity wich wasn't best at all on Libratum version 1.I can confirm that Canorum is very liquid on the whole spectrum not just in the midrange.
Drum cymbals are as natural as it is possible.This phone has stunning easyness even the most complex passages are presented effortlessly.I'm very impressed how drums sound the drumhead is very real.
I'm writing this during listening ,the naturalness is phenomenal.I can confirm and i'm saying this only to me and through my own hearing that this is the most delicate experience after i first time heard Orpheus
back in 1993.
The Canorum farts easily or should i say it has "Canorum fart"  i recommend avoiding to touch the drivers during listening.


----------



## thinker

i couldn't resist doing this


----------



## thinker

i couldn't resist doing this


----------



## musicday

thinker said:


> i couldn't resist doing this



Thank you for doing the video. I like the looks of it less the headband.Too many bolts. What's the weight by the way? Where can we order it from and read the specifications?


----------



## thinker

musicday said:


> Thank you for doing the video. I like the looks of it less the headband.Too many bolts. What's the weight by the way? Where can we order it from and read the specifications?


if somebody can read this:
Тип звукоизлучателя                                                                              Электростатический

Частотный диапазон                                                                                           20 — 30000 Гц

Напряжение Bias                                                                                                                580 В

Вес  ( без учета провода)                                                                                                    480 г

orders here:
http://phenomenon.su


----------



## Thaudiophile

No amazon or ebay?


----------



## musicday

thinker said:


> if somebody can read this:
> Тип звукоизлучателя                                                                              Электростатический
> 
> Частотный диапазон                                                                                           20 — 30000 Гц
> ...


They don't have English language so even using translation is not easy.


----------



## labrat

thinker said:


> if somebody can read this:
> Тип звукоизлучателя                                                                              Электростатический
> 
> Частотный диапазон                                                                                           20 — 30000 Гц
> ...



Google translate!

"Type of sounder Electrostatic

Frequency range 20 - 30000 Hz

Voltage Bias 580 V

Weight (without wire) 480 g"


----------



## joseph69 (Aug 24, 2017)

English:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://phenomenon.su&edit-text=

EDIT: 
Just realized that my link doesn't allow you to click on the descriptions/specifications.


----------



## XLR8

Where can we order phenomenon canorum from?


----------



## thinker

here:
http://phenomenon.su/kontakty/
coming back to charging time,i estimate it's around 10 minutes ,those who get the phone keep it charged some time before making critical listening,it's like a engine wich have to warm up.


----------



## Rossliew

Any more issues with humidity affecting the sound? Malaysia has high humidity levels so would this be an issue using these cans?


----------



## organ_donor

I have a l700 with kgst. What can I gain if I switch over to canorum? Thanks.


----------



## Rossliew

organ_donor said:


> I have a l700 with kgst. What can I gain if I switch over to canorum? Thanks.


How is the L700/Kgst pairing ?


----------



## musicday

Just got my Kingsound M-03 electrostatic portable amplifier. Very good for the money,now i am looking to buy 009


----------



## thinker

Rossliew said:


> Any more issues with humidity affecting the sound? Malaysia has high humidity levels so would this be an issue using these cans?


i cannot make sure comments about the hissing ,was it humidiy or something else but these are very sensitive about fart.I did drive Canorum with Quad wich has quite different voltage wich could have been
the issue.If you turn quickly your head the drivers will react to this and you will hear additional noises ,it's that sensitive.This is the only complain i have also try to avoid changing the volume control too often
the phone adjusts itself to the given volume it's not real time control as i understand it.But i don't complain ,i get HE-90 soundquality here for 1500 usd.


----------



## thinker

organ_donor said:


> I have a l700 with kgst. What can I gain if I switch over to canorum? Thanks.


everything


----------



## seaice

thinker said:


> i cannot make sure comments about the hissing ,was it humidiy or something else but these are very sensitive about fart.I did drive Canorum with Quad wich has quite different voltage wich could have been
> the issue.If you turn quickly your head the drivers will react to this and you will hear additional noises ,it's that sensitive.This is the only complain i have also try to avoid changing the volume control too often
> the phone adjusts itself to the given volume it's not real time control as i understand it.But i don't complain ,i get HE-90 soundquality here for 1500 usd.



I am very close to order the Canorum. How is the bass of Canorum vs 009?


----------



## thinker (Aug 26, 2017)

seaice said:


> I am very close to order the Canorum. How is the bass of Canorum vs 009?


most difficult question to answer for this occasion the only available Stax amp i have here is 252s with power supply,the phone sounds "full" and i don't notice any lack of bass.
I need another amp to evaluate it,The HE-90 doesn't have the bass cabability of 009 the bass is close to HE-90.I think the same with HD-800 with the right amp
you get enough bass.Of course the Abyss is another level in bass quantity.


----------



## organ_donor

Rossliew said:


> How is the L700/Kgst pairing ?


I kinda like this setup with 2qute. Very musical and does not sound cold at all. I do wish to have bigger soundstage and slam harder though.


----------



## thinker

this is the google translation of Canorum from their website
We bring to your attention Phenomenon Canorum - the fruit of our many years of work in search of the optimal, well-adjusted in the nuances of the source of sound.

The heart of these headphones is an electrostatic radiator based on a lavsan film 2 microns thick. To achieve the maximum dynamic range, the membrane area is brought to 59 cm square.

The geometry of the stators ensures an even motion of the membrane and a high degree of control, combined with a minimum number of internal reflections. To prevent sticking of the membrane with the stator, a special dialectric layer is used, which ensures a long and reliable operation of the driver.

Details of the body and headband are made of duralumin and titanium. The use of metal makes the case acoustically neutral and minimizes internal resonances. Due to the high strength and lightness of materials, it was possible to reduce the total mass, which is not the last parameter, when choosing full-size headphones.

To improve ergonomics, we developed a headband with a unique mechanism for adjusting the clamping force. This mechanism and ear cushions made of genuine leather provide maximum comfort and convenience of listening.

Designing Phenomenon Canorum, we tried to move away from the light, incorporeal and overly developed concept of sound, often associated with electrostatic headphones. The sound of this model can be described as dense, emotional, maximally involving in musical material.


----------



## XLR8

Does it come with stolichnaya?


----------



## Rossliew

thinker said:


> most difficult question to answer for this occasion the only available Stax amp i have here is 252s with power supply,the phone sounds "full" and i don't notice any lack of bass.
> I need another amp to evaluate it,The HE-90 doesn't have the bass cabability of 009 the bass is close to HE-90.I think the same with HD-800 with the right amp
> you get enough bass.Of course the Abyss is another level in bass quantity.


The 252s can drive the Canorum well?


----------



## thinker (Aug 26, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> The 252s can drive the Canorum well?


probably not best option but not bad ,with Quad way better but i don't like to melt the phone down  with wrong voltages


----------



## thinker (Aug 26, 2017)

here you see how the pads are removed ,they are with magnets


----------



## chinsettawong

thinker said:


> here you see how the pads are removed ,they are with magnets




That's a very good idea.


----------



## musicday

What's the length of the cable? Is it possible to order with shorter cable? I want only 1.2 M in length. Can you ask the maker if they are okay to be used with portable electrostatic amplifier like M-03?
So i suppose for all the enquiries we have to email. Thanks


----------



## thinker

more findings,the Canorum is excellent with Stax amps i think it's not a demanding phone ,i guess amps like 353X/007/727 would already be a good match.


----------



## Audio5

thinker said:


> more findings,the Canorum is excellent with Stax amps i think it's not a demanding phone ,i guess amps like 353X/007/727 would already be a good match.




Was there a long waiting time once your ordered the Canorum or do they ship relatively quickly?


----------



## thinker (Aug 27, 2017)

6 weeks ... but if the company gets plenty of orders the delivery time probably increase, but this is my guess,i don't know anything about this company.My friend who has been in contact with Dima, the contact person of Phenomenon and engineer behind the phones is honest and realiable person.At least when i ordered Canorum he send me two emails about the progress of my phones .The order and delivery to EU with custom charges followed the agreement.My friend  who has been in contact with him says he don't answer emails often perhaps only when necessary.


----------



## JimL11

So back to the Trilogy H1 electrostatic amp for a minute.  On another website its tubes have been identified as 6C3Pi inputs and 6H6Pi outputs.  The 6C3Pi are single triodes (not, as originally assumed from looking at a photo of the internals, dual triodes at the input) with mu = 50, and the 6H6Pi is a dual triode.  This means that the circuit is similar to the Egmont, or the TubeCAD circuit, a differential input stage capacitor coupled to a differential output stage with no feedback.  It is also the circuit that Schiit considered selling as a less than $1000 electrostatic amp.  Seriously, this is THE CHEAPEST, MOST BASIC balanced all-tube fully differential electrostatic amp circuit there is.  The only way that this is a "completely clean sheet" design is if you ignore all prior design practice since, say, 1970. Now, this is not a bad-sounding circuit - John Broskie of TubeCAD says that in a shoot-out, his version of it sounded better than a Stax hybrid amp (likely the SRM-T1).  But it's not an expensive circuit to build, particularly with a passive power supply. For £5k, Dick Turpin would be proud.


----------



## musicday

Many Stax 009 owners out there? I would like to know more about this headphone and i can't find many reviews.
Have anyone else tried as portable setup?


----------



## jcn3 (Aug 28, 2017)

musicday said:


> Many Stax 009 owners out there? I would like to know more about this headphone and i can't find many reviews.
> Have anyone else tried as portable setup?



there are tons of sr-009 users out there (unfortunately, i'm not one of them).

in terms of reviews, here are some . . .

reviews on head-fi;
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/stax-sr-009-electrostatic-headphones.13431/reviews

from "credible" sources:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/stax-sr-009-electrostatic-earspeaker-playback-54/
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-stax-sr-009
http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/stax-sr-009-electrostatic-headphone/

others:
http://www.soundbsessive.com/stax-sr-009/
http://www.music1online.com/stax/stax-sr-009-review/
https://www.ironhorsetrading.net/review-stax-sr-009-headphones/


----------



## musicday

jcn3 said:


> there are tons of sr-007 users out there (unfortunately, i'm not one of them).
> 
> in terms of reviews, here are some . . .
> 
> ...


Thank you for putting all the links together. I am on holiday and my internet time/ research at the hotel is limited. The weather been fantastic for English summer and i have been swimming, went with my Xootr MG few kilometres and did some exercises. To nice not to be outside.


----------



## JimL11 (Aug 28, 2017)

jcn3 said:


> from "credible" sources:
> http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/stax-sr-009-electrostatic-earspeaker-playback-54/
> https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-stax-sr-009
> /



Tyll at InnerFidelity also had some brief afterthoughts on both the SR-007 Mk II and SR-009 following his Big Sound 2015 get together where he and some others listened to a bunch of headphones and amps, which are posted here:

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-finale-headphones

I have listened to both the SR-007 Mk II modded and the SR-009 on the BHSE, and I prefer the SR-007.  However, at a recent Albuquerque meet, six persons listened to the SR-007 and SR-009 on the BHSE, and three preferred the 007 while the other three preferred the 009.  The 009 sounds brighter than the 007, which some prefer and some don't.  You really have to listen for yourself.  Be aware that the 007 sounds a little less loud, so if you play them at the same amp setting, the 009 will tend to sound better in a quick A/B, simply because it sounds a bit louder.  I haven't tried either headphone as a portable, however you should be aware that both are open back headphones so there is no isolation from the outside environment.  This is good as you are still aware of what's going on around you, but bad in that the music is mixed in with everything that is going on around you.


----------



## zolkis

Among the not so many advantages of getting old, one of the best is that the 009 sounds more and more likable . 
IMHO the 007 also has a treble ridge around 9 kHz, the 009 has a peak around 4 kHz and a ridge around 10 kHz, higher than the 007. With some music, the 009 sounds "brighter", but not to say the 007 doesn't have a brightness problem - it's just reduced in volume so it's less apparent. For me, none of these are critical anyway. The harmonic structure is what matters more (provided the FR is neutral enough to pass), and in that regard the 009 seems better in bringing forward the instruments and getting their pitch right, but the 007 is better in midrange fluidity and re-creating musical atmosphere with certain types of (acoustic/ instrumental) music. It's indeed pity the 009 seems to have a treble hash sometimes, but with e.g. the BHSE and Aristaeus (and also with the disregarded but nevertheless good sounding Konka amp) I have not heard any of that. With certain transistor amps and certain sources, the 009 might sound indeed bright, but I am not sure if it's not (at least partially) attributable to the amp/source/recording combination in the majority of the reported cases. The 009s are so transparent it's easy to fall into the mistake to judge them instead of the upstream (including recording). However, enough people report the 009 to be too bright, so judge yourself. All I wanted to say that I disagree with the brightness argument, that makes one of me. In the same time, I still prefer my modded 007 Mk1 over the 009 for perceiving it more musical and with better microdynamics (more "life" in the music). It's peculiar I know, but who knows, you might hear in a similar way, so check it out yourself and don't take simplistic "this is dark" or "this sounds bright" too seriously. 

Also, it takes time to realize things. By A/B comparison, most often I preferred the 009 (even after volume adjustment since the 009 is much more sensitive), and now the Phenomenon (which is less sensitive), but somehow on the long term I put them down and reach for the modded 007 which I can listen to all day long and it's the sweetest, the lightest and the oldest, with an aura of the good old times. Vintage in the best sense.

Perhaps 20 years later we (or you) will speak about the 009 in similar terms .


----------



## Whitigir

Old ? I am not that old....but I like 009 very very much.  Oh, did I say that I have pure silver everywhere possible in 009 ? System


----------



## bmichels

zolkis said:


> ...., I still prefer my modded 007 Mk1 over the 009 .



what mod did you applied to your SR007 ?   Just closing the vent at the cable side or something else ?


----------



## musicday

Whitigir said:


> Old ? I am not that old....but I like 009 very very much.  Oh, did I say that I have pure silver everywhere possible in 009 ? System


High quality pictures please


----------



## zolkis

bmichels said:


> what mod did you applied to your SR007 ?   Just closing the vent at the cable side or something else ?



The Mk1 does not have a vent. I had one or more more detailed posts earlier, but currently I have the following (also applicable to the Mk2/3, with or without the port mod; I am minority in that I didn't like the port mod on the Mk2/3, made the sound less clear/more muddy).
- springs out
- dust screen out
- on the 007 ear pads filling I have cut off the 4 mm thick white ring from the foam, so now it's thinner and has less mass inside the pads
- it's so easy to attach the pads after this .
All these are reversible. You can leave the second one out, but no, IMUO dust, hair etc don't damage the headphones, since 1) the diaphragm is protected/sealed anyway with 2 thin foils on both sides, 2) I always keep them in the box, 3) we don't have much dust in the house 4) the dust screen doesn't really stop dust anyway, just debris. I just checked the other day, they are completely clean.

Results (measurements published earlier in this space):
- more open mids; mine is early batch, and has more open mids than most other 007s I have heard, but even this is improved. Doesn't approach the 009, it's still a 007, but definitely good enough to stop being dark in any ways.
- larger and more realistic sound stage
- better microdynamics / more life
- better deep bass with nice texture, in fact nearly linear down to 15 Hz, rolling off about ~3 dB at 20 Hz
- more relaxed sound
- more linear/smooth between 20 and 1000 Hz.

The 007 Mk2 changes in the same direction, but it has more midbass slam instead of more deep bass slam, the Mk1 has more open mids and sounds a bit smoother/more fluid IMHO. However, I preferred the Mk2 for jazz for instance.

The 009 pads on the 007 result in having more mids and midbass - very nice sound, but the above mods are within reach for every owner, without needing to buy 009 pads.


----------



## ZGojira

I prefer the 007A (mk2) for more relaxed/enjoyment listening, and the 009 for more critical/focused listening.

The 007A sounds thicker/lush with more lower bass than the 009, whereas the 009 sounds faster and more detailed. 

Sadly, my budget can't stretch a BHSE or a Carbon, and have not heard either....


----------



## Mystel

Been trying lots of amps with the 009 the past few days at local stores. 
Tried the WES, which i found to be the lushiest, smoothest and lacked detail
Then the T8000, which i found to be a disappointment . I felt it was really peaky and forward and somewhat grainy. thin sounding and the bass lacked body. Music didnt sound cohesive on this at all 
BHSE, didnt have the 009 when i tried it but it paired amazingly with a L700, a setup i might consider
I have a carbon coming in sometime soon so i can compare it with the rest
In the meantime, jelt2359 was kind enough to lend me his DIY T2



 
This amp is still a little bright for my taste. I believe itll be more suited to my taste with some tube rolling
Other than that, this is the most holographic, clean, detailed and smooth amp ive tried. 
Really impressed thus far, shall wait for the carbon to come in and see how close it is to this
Theres also this VE tube amp that i'll get to try sometime this week. the VE guy claims that it has less distortion than the BHSE so we'll see.


----------



## paradoxper

The T2 is the truth. The truth is so hard to obtain.


----------



## mulveling (Aug 29, 2017)

paradoxper said:


> The T2 is the truth. The truth is so hard to obtain.


Better yet - it's the truth, spoken poetically.

You simply get some vintage Mullard EL34 in the DIY T2 if you want a slightly lusher rendering of the truth.


----------



## Rossliew

Mystel said:


> Been trying lots of amps with the 009 the past few days at local stores.
> Tried the WES, which i found to be the lushiest, smoothest and lacked detail
> Then the T8000, which i found to be a disappointment . I felt it was really peaky and forward and somewhat grainy. thin sounding and the bass lacked body. Music didnt sound cohesive on this at all
> BHSE, didnt have the 009 when i tried it but it paired amazingly with a L700, a setup i might consider
> ...


That should be my Carbon


----------



## Thaudiophile

Why can't someone upload a SR 007 unboxing video?


----------



## georgep

Mystel said:


> Been trying lots of amps with the 009 the past few days at local stores.
> Tried the WES, which i found to be the lushiest, smoothest and lacked detail
> Then the T8000, which i found to be a disappointment . I felt it was really peaky and forward and somewhat grainy. thin sounding and the bass lacked body. Music didnt sound cohesive on this at all
> BHSE, didnt have the 009 when i tried it but it paired amazingly with a L700, a setup i might consider
> ...



If you thought the t2 was a tad bright, you will likely find the carbon to be a bit more so. Which carbon version are you getting?


----------



## astrostar59

The ever ending discussions over the 007MK1 or recent MK2 2015 v the 009. I don't think either is perfect. IMO the 007 is masking what is going on to 'hide' grain or digital edge in a typical DAC source. So much more forgiving and easier to system match, get to a certain level. But the layer the 009 digs out is the holy grail, the decay and depth, closer to what id going on. The soundstage is also wider. And the 007 is sluggish and doesn't match the 009s speed even on the BHSE or Carbon. I disagree on the 009s bass, it has as much as the 007, and is more leaner and goes deeper. The 007 has a bass bump and gives the impression of more.

Moving onto the treble level and quality, it is similar to what you get with high end speakers v bookshelf speakers, there is a price to pay for the extra information it digs out. And that information will punish you if your DAC and server isn't well sorted and good quality. So much so, many sell on the 009 and keep it but end up preferring the 007. Personal taste and all that, but I firmly believe the 009 is way ahead, it is in my system.

So this vein continues as we go through the amps, and move up to the BHSE/Carbon/T2 IMO. You get more, but you can't always expect to be forgiven if the rest of the system is leaning towards brightness. Many modern DS DACs have gone this way IMO, it sells the sound in demos, and is impressive for a while. They can sound bright in high end speakers and horn speakers as well, not just the 009s. Huge generalisation, but the path I had trodden for the last 20 years of digital, that is my findings. And as go get better speakers or HPs, it doesn't get any easier.

The BHSE with NOS tubes and an R-2R DAC seems to work very well, minimal brightness issues. I heard it with the Holo Spring DAC at Can-Jam and I could be happy with that I believe (on the tracks I heard it on). My own DAC is tubed and R-2R and is not known as a detail freak DAC, rather slightly warm if anything. This no doubt helps in my case. It would be interesting to hear from a top vinyl source and the 009s, see how that sounds? I bet it would be spot on, though the clicks and surface noise may drive you insane!


----------



## Rossliew

georgep said:


> If you thought the t2 was a tad bright, you will likely find the carbon to be a bit more so. Which carbon version are you getting?


George, if i may add - he's bought my Carbon built by Soren B. It has the GRLV and GRHV PS and is one transparent amp - rolling cables/sources will entail different sonic signatures to be channeled through. I was using the L300 with it - didn't sound bright but very airy. Probably not even fully burnt in yet before i sold it off to try something else.


----------



## astrostar59

I am not entirely sure, but I think the brightness or treble energy in the Carbon can be controlled a bit with the level of the mA setting from the PS. Mine is at 18mA, on 16mA less so.


----------



## Rossliew

Mine was 18mA if not mistaken..runs really warm


----------



## musicday

Is it possible to get 009 in black colour or that was available only for 007 limited edition?


----------



## joseph69 (Aug 29, 2017)

musicday said:


> Is it possible to get 009 in black colour or that was available only for 007 limited edition?


The 009 only comes in silver. The 007  (Japan model) is silver as well. The 007 (USA model) is black.


----------



## musicday

joseph69 said:


> The 009 only comes in silver. The 007  (Japan model) is silver as well. The 007 (USA model) is black.


I suppose there is no difference between the 007 Japan and USA model other than the colour. Thank you for the information.
Anyone had problems with the cables over the years that neaded replacement? I want to know how durable are the Stax cables.Are they the same for all their headphones?


----------



## joseph69 (Aug 29, 2017)

musicday said:


> I suppose there is no difference between the 007 Japan and USA model other than the colour. Thank you for the information.
> Anyone had problems with the cables over the years that neaded replacement? I want to know how durable are the Stax cables.Are they the same for all their headphones?


Youre welcome.
No difference as far as I'm aware of with the 007 but the colors. No issues here with neither the 007/009 cables.


----------



## astrostar59

JimL11 said:


> So back to the Trilogy H1 electrostatic amp for a minute.  On another website its tubes have been identified as 6C3Pi inputs and 6H6Pi outputs.  The 6C3Pi are single triodes (not, as originally assumed from looking at a photo of the internals, dual triodes at the input) with mu = 50, and the 6H6Pi is a dual triode.  This means that the circuit is similar to the Egmont, or the TubeCAD circuit, a differential input stage capacitor coupled to a differential output stage with no feedback.  It is also the circuit that Schiit considered selling as a less than $1000 electrostatic amp.  Seriously, this is THE CHEAPEST, MOST BASIC balanced all-tube fully differential electrostatic amp circuit there is.  The only way that this is a "completely clean sheet" design is if you ignore all prior design practice since, say, 1970. Now, this is not a bad-sounding circuit - John Broskie of TubeCAD says that in a shoot-out, his version of it sounded better than a Stax hybrid amp (likely the SRM-T1).  But it's not an expensive circuit to build, particularly with a passive power supply. For £5k, Dick Turpin would be proud.



Thanks as always for your in-depth tech on this subject JimL11. I was not impressed with the performance at Can-Jam. Seemed no better (maybe not as good) as the T-8000 on the next table both on the 009s. And both those amps way way behind the BHSE, it is pitiful TBH. Looks like a nice chassis mind and the tube glow, but other than audio jewellery, move along IMO, better to be had for less.


----------



## georgep

Rossliew said:


> George, if i may add - he's bought my Carbon built by Soren B. It has the GRLV and GRHV PS and is one transparent amp - rolling cables/sources will entail different sonic signatures to be channeled through. I was using the L300 with it - didn't sound bright but very airy. Probably not even fully burnt in yet before i sold it off to try something else.



To be clear, I don't find either the T2 or the Carbon to be bright. "Bright" can be a very relative term, usually based on what a listener is accustomed to hearing.

And you can't go wrong with one of Soren's amps - you should not have let it go (unless you were saving for a T2 that is).


----------



## astrostar59

Rossliew - did you hear the 007 or 009s on your Carbon before you sold it?


----------



## Rossliew

georgep said:


> To be clear, I don't find either the T2 or the Carbon to be bright. "Bright" can be a very relative term, usually based on what a listener is accustomed to hearing.
> 
> And you can't go wrong with one of Soren's amps - you should not have let it go (unless you were saving for a T2 that is).


Yeah kinda feeling some sellers remorse now but needed funds for other commitments. Perhaps try a grounded grid next


----------



## astrostar59

My view is the Lambda range was thin and airy sounding, lower dynamics, and I imagine the L range is close to that sound. I have heard the 507 out of my Carbon and was closer than not to my old LN Signatures. I didn't experience bass of any meaning on a Stat till I heard the 007, then later the 009. Rossliew, if you are leaving Stats, I would look to the LCD4 or Utopia and a tube amp. The Feliks amp I heard t Can-Jam was great and good value.


----------



## Rossliew

astrostar59 said:


> My view is the Lambda range was thin and airy sounding, lower dynamics, and I imagine the L range is close to that sound. I have heard the 507 out of my Carbon and was closer than not to my old LN Signatures. I didn't experience bass of any meaning on a Stat till I heard the 007, then later the 009. Rossliew, if you are leaving Stats, I would look to the LCD4 or Utopia and a tube amp. The Feliks amp I heard t Can-Jam was great and good value.



Hi Julian, am not leaving Stax, just a minor setback due to other financial commitments and I'm pretty sure i will be getting another KG amp again once budget allows. In any case, i do find the L300 to be pretty good sounding for the money. I have always loved the airy sound of the lambdas and i do not find them lacking in bass. In fact they thump pretty hard when called upon yet i don't lose the treble sparkle as well. I once had a Mk 1 (SZ2) 007 and i find them overly closed in sound staging - they sounded like a very good dynamic headphone and didn't give me that estat sound i expected. The 007 was driven off a Mjolnir KGST back then. 

As for dynamics, i currently have an upgraded Feliks Audio Elise with some nice aftermarket tubes so that satisfies my tube cravings. I've also used the Elise as preamp into my SRS-252s amp to drive the L300 and it sounds awesome for such a modest set up


----------



## musicday

Anyone bought 009 from eBay Japan? I am talking to some reputable sellers but the warranty 1 year is valid only there so in UK is useless.
Any suggestions please where i can get them new cheaper?


----------



## Rossliew

astrostar59 said:


> Rossliew - did you hear the 007 or 009s on your Carbon before you sold it?


Unfortunately not. Almost pulled the trigger on a MK ii 007 but budget didn't allow. Still hope to own a BHSE one day..


----------



## FLguy (Aug 30, 2017)

astrostar59 said:


> ... The Feliks amp I heard t Can-Jam was great and good value.


A bit off topic, but to digress briefly out of curiosity (since I run both dynamic and electrostatic headphone systems),  which model of Feliks amp did you listen to? And with which headphones? - Cheers


----------



## astrostar59

FLguy said:


> A bit off topic, but to digress briefly of curiosity (since I run both dynamic and electrostatic headphone systems),  which model of Feliks amp did you listen to? And with which headphones? - Cheers



It was the Arioso. Sounded very good.


----------



## Thaudiophile

I can't see your numbers, i can only see "t"


----------



## thinker (Aug 31, 2017)

here some numbers,i don't know if this makes any sense but at least it is a direction.I have owned all these phones.Of course the numbers are "living" depending of different amps/sources,diffrent ears and persons.Maybe i check the numbers again at some point and do some changes


----------



## Audio5

thinker said:


> here some numbers,i don't know if this makes any sense but at least it is a direction.I have owned all these phones.Of course the numbers are "living" depending of different amps/sources,diffrent ears and persons.Maybe i check the numbers again at some point and do some changes



Thanks for the comparison. If you don't mind me asking, did you just email Phenomenon to order the Canorum? I emailed them a little over 2 days ago and still have not heard anything back and just wanted to make sure there wasn't a secret trick I was missing.


----------



## thinker

Audio5 said:


> Thanks for the comparison. If you don't mind me asking, did you just email Phenomenon to order the Canorum? I emailed them a little over 2 days ago and still have not heard anything back and just wanted to make sure there wasn't a secret trick I was missing.


i have been waiting some days or over a week or two before he answers,who knows maybe he is busy,but if you pay with Paypal there is no risk.


----------



## PDOT (Aug 31, 2017)

Audio5 said:


> I emailed them a little over 2 days ago and still have not heard


Write here:
phominykh@rambler.ru
or dimaphominykh@gmail.com
Cheers, Dima.


----------



## statfi

I have been continuing to play with increased clamping force with the 009s, and, while trying a *different* configuration of the rubberbands then I reported, *I broke the 009’s headband*.   See 1st photo.  So if anyone does follow along, be careful.





Although I am looking into getting a replacement from Stax for what I broke, I was not all that disappointed to have the opportunity to design my own support system.  The 1st system I have tried is shown in the 2nd photo.  By laboriously adjusting the lengths of the resistance bands (from physical therapy for my knee) and tweaking the bands’ and cups’ positions on my head, I can get *pretty* uniform force of the ear pads against my skull.  (It would really be nice if skulls had a more regular shape  !-)  The sound I get from this configuration is at least as good as I was getting with the (unreported) configuration that I was testing when the break occurred.  Both of these newer configurations are just slightly better than the configuration I reported on previously, with 3 rubber bands.  This configuration is way inconvenient, and not as comfortable as Stax’ headband, but *I* would listen this way, at this point, even if that were not a requirement, to realize the improvement in sound quality.

 


(Also, note that I have tungsten beads glued to the outsides of the ear cups.  I have not reported on their effect because I cannot do A-B-A.. tests to nail their sonic efficacy.  I *think* they reduce upper-harmonic hash, esp. on human voice, but cannot verify that without removing and replacing them.  So, the jury is still out.)


BTW, removing the dust screen that is under the ear pads improves the sound in an unsurprising way.  With the screens (vs. without) sounds like you are listening through a light stage curtain: there is a slight roll off in the treble (that sounds to me like “hardness”, e.g., on massed violins), the soundscape is blurrier spatially, timbres of instruments get blurred together sonically, and you can hear less of the “action” of the instruments.


----------



## wink

I can see channel imbalance in your future


----------



## musicday

statfi said:


> I have been continuing to play with increased clamping force with the 009s, and, while trying a *different* configuration of the rubberbands then I reported, *I broke the 009’s headband*.   See 1st photo.  So if anyone does follow along, be careful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The funniest picture on Headfi ever
I hope you get them fixed soon.


----------



## musicday

Bmichels- have you heard any difference in sound after reducing the cable to 1.1 m?


----------



## FLguy

thinker said:


> here some numbers,i don't know if this makes any sense but at least it is a direction.I have owned all these phones.Of course the numbers are "living" depending of different amps/sources,diffrent ears and persons.Maybe i check the numbers again at some point and do some changes


Thanks for posting - very interesting... This is clearly intended to summarize & compare the top tier 'stat headphones. It does make me wonder how the SR007 MKII compares / fits in. Of course any such rating will be somewhat subjective, and this could be a bit of a slippery slope (L700? L300? ESP950? ...? ) however any additional points of comparison / reference would be welcome just for fun, and for those of us that don't often get the chance to compare these headphones - thanks.


----------



## TheAttorney (Sep 1, 2017)

statfi said:


> I have been continuing to play with increased clamping force with the 009s, and, while trying a *different* configuration of the rubberbands then I reported, *I broke the 009’s headband*.   See 1st photo.  So if anyone does follow along, be careful..



When you first started this "head clamping" idea, I did wonder if you were joking, or maybe going a bit loopy. And I'm still wondering .

I'd rather go the other way in order to get a more comfortable fit: by adding some slithers of felt-type material to the back half of the pads, as was discussed here (and the Other Site) a while back. This has the effect of tilting the drivers in a slighty more forward facing direction and, more importantly for those with big-ish ears, it pushed the drivers a couple of mm away from the back of the ears. Which for me was the difference between the drivers slightly touching my ears and not touching them.

I also felt this tweak slightly improved SQ, but that may have just been wishful thinking, as I couldn't be bothered to do A/B comparisons.
So, although your head clamping idea may well improve SQ for all I know, I'm never going to find out, becuase comfort and looks are also important to me.


----------



## astrostar59 (Sep 1, 2017)

TheAttorney said:


> When you first started this "head clamping" idea, I did wonder if you were joking, or maybe going a bit loopy. And I'm still wondering .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree on this. In my (basic) test adding clamping has a crude alteration to the sound as a basic EQ would, reduces the soundstage and increases the bass a bit but encourages a bass bump or one note effect. Don't forget you are reducing the air volume in the cavity between your ear and the sound panels, bit like putting a big speaker in a smaller box, it doesn't always work. Then the added heat and discomfort and strain on the frames. TBH I believe it is a non starter. I am more interested in angling the panels as The Attorney mentioned. I note the 007 has a bit more angling in the pads. So if I had the resources, I would make some custom pads with more thickness to the rear to see if it increased the soundstage effect.

Back to the reason to try the clamping, is it you want more bass? What amp and DAC are you using? I have no problem with bass TBH. And besides, I am conscious I spent 3.5K on the 009s so don't want to trash them. I would recommend testing out theories on an old Lambda pair and use the Mother in law for the clamping force testing. Should do the job fine.


----------



## Whitigir

I have no problem with bass either  and I have Utopia here to compare everyday lol


----------



## Thaudiophile

Whitigir said:


> I have no problem with bass either  and I have Utopia here to compare everyday lol


Whitigir By how much do you think your  SR 009 is better than your utopia?


----------



## Whitigir

Thaudiophile said:


> Whitigir By how much do you think your  SR 009 is better than your utopia?



Basically put....I go for 009 everytime I have it available.  The only thing Utopia does so much better is that I can plug it into my WM1Z and slamming it away.   Until WM1Z can be used as external USB DAC with my Utopia, then it would be a great great portable setup


----------



## statfi

musicday said:


> Bmichels- have you heard any difference in sound after reducing the cable to 1.1 m?



+1!!!


----------



## statfi

musicday said:


> The funniest picture on Headfi ever
> I hope you get them fixed soon.


Re. the picture, its worth a thousand words.  *Now* I have you attention  !-)
Re. the fix: I expect that if I get the replacement parts, I will put them in a drawer for if I ever want to sell the 009s, e.g., if Stax came out with a superior model.
One benefit of the breakage was that my current revision with exercise bands *is more comfortable* that my original rev with rubber bands.  The problem with rubber bands on the head band is that the head band (near my break in it) comes very close to your skull, and rubber bands cause a corner of the head band to touch your skull.  This has two major down sides: a) it is uncomfortable, and b) it limits the force clamp the pads to your skull.  Cycling to the Lick Observatory this morning I noticed that my bicycle helmet plus a sweat band has about the same level of dis-comfort as my method of supporting the 009s with two exercise bands.
At this point I will state explicitly what maybe does not come through in my posts: 
1) Stax 009s are wonderful.  This does not mean they cannot be better, but *I have not heard* headphones that I prefer.
2) I have a BHSE with matched NOS-6CA7-PH-MB Philips Miniwatt EL34 / 6CA7 Metal Base tubes.  IMO the marriage of 'stats to OTL tubed amps was "made in heaven".  'Not that one could not in principle do better, but the synergy is superb, and Kevin and Justin have done a really nice job.


----------



## astrostar59

So- why attempt to alter them? If it works don't fix it, or err don't bust it to then have to fix it when it wasn't bust in the first place. All seems a bit left field for me, I am running away at this point...


----------



## statfi

TheAttorney said:


> When you first started this "head clamping" idea, I did wonder if you were joking, or maybe going a bit loopy. And I'm still wondering .



Re. the first possibility, I am not joking.  The jury is still out on the second possibility  !-)  However, in the meantime, thanks for your thoughtful comments below.



TheAttorney said:


> I also felt this tweak slightly improved SQ, but that may have just been wishful thinking, as I couldn't be bothered to do A/B comparisons.
> So, although your head clamping idea may well improve SQ for all I know, I'm never going to find out, becuase comfort and looks are also important to me.



I hope that we can agree to disagree on the relative importances of comfort, looks and sound quality.  *For me*, personally, sound quality trumps virtually everything else (except, possibly, price  !-), and looks matter not one iota.  Although my threshold for discomfort is rather high, it does have limits, and I can appreciate others insisting on greater comfort.  My current working hypothesis is that there is a real tradeoff between sound quality and comfort related to clamping force.  Stax made, IMO, a reasonable choice for this tradeoff, but not one that is optimal for yours truly.  I notice that Canorum explicitly "mention" and enabled user input into this tradeoff,but do not further elucidate the pros and cons:



thinker said:


> this is the google translation of Canorum from their website
> ...
> To improve ergonomics, we developed a headband with a unique mechanism for adjusting the clamping force. ...



 (I have tried an experiment with Head-Fi's formatting syntax.  I hope they worked.  If not, apologies.)


----------



## bearFNF

I just received my SR-009's back from their vacation in Hong Kong. 
The final report is that all they did was clean them and then test them for a little over a week. 
They did not find anything wrong with the drivers, which is good. No $$$ bill for new drivers...

Been listening to them for a few hours now and no imbalance, so far.
I though it was funny that they traveled from Hong Kong to Taiwan to Anchorage Alaska to Fargo North Dakota before coming to me in Minnesota.
The FedEx guy said that they were scrambling to keep up and that lots of planes/shipments have been diverted to avoid the storm in the south.


----------



## statfi

Ali-Pacha said:


> Been there, done that. Sounded exactly the way I describe it : narrower soundstage, all around brighter balance. Both things thare are going the wrong way IMO considering the stock nature of 009.
> 
> Ali





astrostar59 said:


> I agree on this. In my (basic) test adding clamping has a crude alteration to the sound as a basic EQ would, reduces the soundstage and increases the bass a bit but encourages a bass bump or one note effect. Don't forget you are reducing the air volume in the cavity between your ear and the sound panels, bit like putting a big speaker in a smaller box, it doesn't always work. Then the added heat and discomfort and strain on the frames. TBH I believe it is a non starter. I am more interested in angling the panels as The Attorney mentioned. I note the 007 has a bit more angling in the pads. So if I had the resources, I would make some custom pads with more thickness to the rear to see if it increased the soundstage effect.
> 
> Back to the reason to try the clamping, is it you want more bass? What amp and DAC are you using? I have no problem with bass TBH. And besides, I am conscious I spent 3.5K on the 009s so don't want to trash them. I would recommend testing out theories on an old Lambda pair and use the Mother in law for the clamping force testing. Should do the job fine.



'Love the picture!

IMO, increased clamping improves the sound stage in these ways.  Individual instruments in the sound stage have narrower images, so the sound stage appears more "open", with the added advantage (for me) that I can more easily separate different instruments in space as well as in musical line and timbre.  I have not noticed that the centers of images of individual instruments get closer together.  Secondly, clamping makes it easier for my ear to "automatically" differentiate direct sound from reflected sound, creating the (faithful) impression of real instruments in a real recording space.

Could both of you give me a few more words on how clamping degrades the soundstage, so I can understand how it is different from what I am focusing on?

Re. bass, when I did ABA... tests, I consciously decided that the bass level was not changed all the much with clamping, but that the bass had more "impact" and/or "weight".  Empirically, e.g., I can hear more clearly the bowing of double basses, whether solo or massed.  Emotionally, for me, they have more "weight" that way.  My *hypothesis* is that, for bass instruments, their harmonics are more coherent.  For example, for bowed double bass, the bow interacts with the strings with a stick/slip process, giving many "micro transients" at the slip events.  In order for the harmonics to add up to reproduce these micro transients, their coherency must be maintained.  In order for coherency to be preserved by the diaphragm of the electrostatic driver, its "mechanical ground" (the ear cups) must not be moving at any of the frequencies of interest. (End of hypothesis.)

To answer the question explicitly, knowing what I know today, I do not want *more* bass than stock 009s offer, just bass with greater fidelity.

I am using the BHSE with Philips Metal Base EL34s.

While I did a (successful) spot check with my Bryston BDA-2 and hi-res files, the bulk of my comparisons are done with my analog front end which is far better than the BDA-2 in the domains being discussed.  (E.g., my analog is *not* better than the BDA-2 in the domains of random uncorrelated noise, a.k.a. hiss, or ticks and pops.)

I do disagree with the analogy between volume between ES diaphragm and ear and the volume of a room with speakers.  Acoustic interaction in the two cases is quite different because, for the former, the effective dimensions are much smaller than the bulk of the effective wavelengths, whereas, for the other, they are much longer.  'Two very different acoustic regimes.


----------



## astrostar59

Statfi, what amp are you using, and DAC please.


----------



## zolkis

thinker said:


> here some numbers,i don't know if this makes any sense but at least it is a direction.I have owned all these phones.Of course the numbers are "living" depending of different amps/sources,diffrent ears and persons.Maybe i check the numbers again at some point and do some changes



From that list, every headphone stands out in something. Whether that or actually what exactly makes it the best headphone for someone, indeed depends on the music, chain, and person.
For myself I would add my modded and properly head-adjusted 007 Mk1 to that list (would not do that in stock form). Its bass extension is as good as the 009 and Phenomenon (actually it measures quite the same as the latter), but has the oomph/emphasis a bit higher, making it sound with _different_ bass slam. As I perceive it, it has bigger bass slam and impact than all the others, but measurements tell that extension and curve shape are similar. Its midrange liquidity is quite the reference for me, but I'd give the crown to the HE1 by a small margin (maybe memory fails me though). The treble is a bit subdued compared to all the rest, but has good lifelikeness and gives the sound a deeper tonality that is very pleasant on long listening (not "dark", but "deep"). Its bigger brother, the SR-Omega is a bit better in everything except perhaps midrange fluidity.

Another dimension to check is how "lifelike" (pitch, attack, decay, timing, harmonic structure) compared to real instruments they sound. The most true to original instrument pitch and harmonics are the 009 and Phenomenon. They are more alike than not. The 009 is more sensitive, the Phenomenon a tad more dynamic/real perhaps and with no treble issue (although the 009 is fine for me in the treble), with treble structure/type similar to that of the 007, but less attenuated (that puts it close to the SR-Omega). Both the 009 and Phenomenon are linear, neutral, extended and true to the sound, alive and full with PRaT, but I would say still the more fun to listen IMHO are the HE1, SR-Omega and the 007 Mk1. They give such a special, relaxed enjoyment. This is what keeps me by the 007 (although I may sell it in the end). I don't yet know about the new Canorum, but so far to me the 009 and Phenomenon are reference type of headphones more than dancer's one, so that it makes you want to boost the bass a bit (good old "loudness"). That makes them best suited to instrumental, small chamber and classical music. For jazz is a tie. With pop, electronica etc I still reach for the 007 Mk1 - not to mention it's the lightest -, and would do it even more with the SR-Omega or HE1. Surely, all of these are capable to melt your heart with music, but each with different kind. Comparing them doesn't really make justice to either one, but if we want to define a character, roughly that's how I feel it. You can't go wrong with any of these, as they excel in all areas compared to other headphones.

All of this is my interpretation, and mind you that I seem to have odd impressions when compared to others' impressions.


----------



## Pokemonn (Sep 8, 2017)

darn, I am deeply shocked...I bought oppo Sonica Dac which have latest ESS 9038 Pro DAC chip...burned in about 24hours.
completly no listening fatigue.... silky smooth....no digital etch.....scary good separation and resolution.... surprise...surprise....surprise.....its literally insane good SQ.
I have been thinking that etch came from 009 but no no no it was from a DAC. No EQ needed anymore.
I wasted 2 year times for bad sounding DAC. sad sad sad....lol

hope this someone help.


----------



## bmichels

musicday said:


> Bmichels- have you heard any difference in sound after reducing the cable to 1.1 m?



NO, no real sound difference.  Just more convenient....


----------



## JimL11

Pokemonn said:


> darn, I am deeply shocked...I bought oppo Sonica Dac which have latest ESS 9038 Pro DAC chip...burned in about 24hours.
> completly no listening fatigue.... silky smooth....no digital etch..... surprise...surprise....surprise.....
> I have been thinking that etch came from 009 but no no no it was from a DAC. No EQ needed anymore.
> I wasted 2 year times for bad sounding DAC. sad sad sad....lol
> ...



So, what DAC was causing the etch?


----------



## JimL11

Unrelated topic:  Bob Katz has recently received a KGSS Carbon built by Mjolnir Audio for evaluation.  He reports on it on InnerFidelity.


----------



## paradoxper (Sep 1, 2017)

Results: DUH. It's so good.


----------



## Pokemonn (Sep 2, 2017)

JimL11 said:


> So, what DAC was causing the etch?


actually many dacs for me. I want to avoid comment which dacs caused etch. some of them are still in production.
so oppo Sonica Dac ESS 9038 Pro is huge surprise for me since it's relatively cheap dac. Sonica's treble is very very refined but not etchy at same time.


----------



## zolkis

Need to catch up on the Sonica then, although not being hard on the treble does not necessarily mean analog sound, as it can still sound thin, or hard on mids, which I am sensitive to. I thought to get the E.C Designs new DAC, as it's built from ground up to solve the "digital" sound issues, and reportedly does, albeit only with 44.1 material - but includes headphone amp too. Too bad it's unobtainable yet. The Holo Spring could be another contender, and the Yggy, although there's been some concerns on pairing it with the 009 and transistor amps. I still use a TDA1541 build for 44.1, still unbeaten.


----------



## weasel1979 (Sep 2, 2017)

Hi there, I am kind of new here, been reading for quite a while now. I am a 007 Mk1 and KGSSHV owner, I listen to Tidal Hifi, but I am hesitant to spend a ot of money on a DAC, is that a mistake? Do you all really hear differences between DACs? Could you recommend some reasonably priced DACs? Thank you.


----------



## soren_brix

JimL11 said:


> Unrelated topic:  Bob Katz has recently received a KGSS Carbon built by Mjolnir Audio for evaluation.  He reports on it on InnerFidelity.


Received and report as opposed to bought and review? ... only one besides from Katz seems to state things like: "The KGSS HV Carbon is very "tube-like" ..." ...


----------



## wink

Get the YGGY DAC........


----------



## bearFNF

I second this recommendation... 


weasel1979 said:


> Hi there, I am kind of new here, been reading for quite a while now. I am a 007 Mk1 and KGSSHV owner, I listen to Tidal Hifi, but I am hesitant to spend a ot of money on a DAC, is that a mistake? Do you all really hear differences between DACs? Could you recommend some reasonably priced DACs? Thank you.





wink said:


> Get the YGGY DAC........


----------



## astrostar59

weasel1979 said:


> Hi there, I am kind of new here, been reading for quite a while now. I am a 007 Mk1 and KGSSHV owner, I listen to Tidal Hifi, but I am hesitant to spend a ot of money on a DAC, is that a mistake? Do you all really hear differences between DACs? Could you recommend some reasonably priced DACs? Thank you.



Absolutely a DAC impacts the sound level you will get. The 007MK1 and KGSShv is into high end speaker realms IMO, so naturally you will hear more, and that can cause problems if the source isn't top quality. I would look at R-2R DACs as they tend to sound smoother and fuller in the midrange, generally more realistic. If looking at a budget the Holo Spring DAC comes to mind and is very good. And if using a computer as a source you may need to look at Ethernet - USB devices to avoid limiting the sound quality of USB direct from a standard PC. That in itself can make the sound improve a lot.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Wait for the Metrum Jade ("baby Adagio")


----------



## astrostar59

I dunno. I had the Metrum Octave MK2 hailed as a DAC killer and under 1K a remarkable machine. It wasn't IMO, very flat and uninteresting sound, so I sold it. TBH I didn't understand the hype and reviews over it, inc the MK1 version before it as well.

The HEX which I heard later was a tiny improvement. I haven't heard the later units from Metrum, but I was impressed with the Holo Spring DAC and at 2.5K a good buy. Obviously that can be beat with a Chord DAVE, TotalDAC etc, but that is 3-4 times more money. Many of the lower budget DACs can make or break with the choice of input used, and often the USB input is weaker than AES for example, so experimentation is key.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol (Sep 2, 2017)

The new DAC TWO chips are a substantial upgrade over the older models, I didn't like the Octave MK2 too but you have to hear the Adagio, especially if you bypass the amplifier's volume control to use it as a preamp, that thing put me on tears with my 007 and a BHSE when I heard it.


----------



## mulveling

paradoxper said:


> Results: DUH. It's so good.


Exactly. Bob and Tyll are considered experts, and their opinions are heeded by many thousands of high-end headphone enthusiasts. It's almost like they should, I dunno, maybe keep a reference electrostatic headphone rig on hand 
Nah, it's crazy for reviewers to keep a reference. Just plug this stuff into whatever crap is on hand.


----------



## astrostar59

Good point Mulveling. I guess the 'experts' are experts on commercial amps but *not* exposed to the DIY niche market. Possibly why Birgir sent him the Carbon? Also disagree on the 007 being the best, and the comment from Tyll saying the 009 had a tizzy treble. Yeah it does, on many amps and some DACs, but if you want speed and resolution it needs a good front end to go with it (plus a top amp). Then it is the best Stax HP IMO.


----------



## paradoxper

mulveling said:


> Exactly. Bob and Tyll are considered experts, and their opinions are heeded by many thousands of high-end headphone enthusiasts. It's almost like they should, I dunno, maybe keep a reference electrostatic headphone rig on hand
> Nah, it's crazy for reviewers to keep a reference. Just plug this stuff into whatever crap is on hand.



Dude, that requires too much logic. Come on.


----------



## Pokemonn

weasel1979 said:


> Hi there, I am kind of new here, been reading for quite a while now. I am a 007 Mk1 and KGSSHV owner, I listen to Tidal Hifi, but I am hesitant to spend a ot of money on a DAC, is that a mistake? Do you all really hear differences between DACs? Could you recommend some reasonably priced DACs? Thank you.


buy a oppo sonica dac and save your money and invest stock market, be Wallen Buffet first then get dCS Vivaldi Systems for each your rooms ;D


----------



## Thaudiophile

How does the Phenomenon Canorum compare to N3rdling's Orpheus Clone considering that they both have very similar shape and design?


----------



## soren_brix

mulveling said:


> Exactly. Bob and Tyll are considered experts, and their opinions are heeded by many thousands of high-end headphone enthusiasts. It's almost like they should, I dunno, maybe keep a reference electrostatic headphone rig on hand
> Nah, it's crazy for reviewers to keep a reference. Just plug this stuff into whatever crap is on hand.


Spritzer sent Tyll a 'special' KGSS 3 years ago https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...n-electrostatic-headphone-measurement-program to be used for reference.
Also, Bob had a KGSS from Headamp (put of for sale recently). 
Anyways, the "report" is just a badly done compilation of various Spritzer statements throughout the past two years about the Carbon and the SR-007 - blended with some of the usual Katz EQ'ing.


----------



## Rossliew

Soren, would u say the Mjolnir Carbon to be warm and tube like in sound? From bits and pieces I've read here and there, it seems he prefers a brighter tonality to match the 007s. I could be wrong though..


----------



## wink

Pokemonn said:


> buy a oppo sonica dac and save your money and invest stock market, be Warren Buffet first then get* YGGY/Rag *Systems for each your rooms ;D



FTFY.....


----------



## soren_brix

Rossliew said:


> Soren, would u say the Mjolnir Carbon to be warm and tube like in sound? From bits and pieces I've read here and there, it seems he prefers a brighter tonality to match the 007s. I could be wrong though..


associating a warm and tube like sound with the Carbon is probably a far stretch ...


----------



## astrostar59

Rossliew said:


> Soren, would u say the Mjolnir Carbon to be warm and tube like in sound? From bits and pieces I've read here and there, it seems he prefers a brighter tonality to match the 007s. I could be wrong though..



Agree. My summary of the Carbon is fast, transparent and wide soundstage with great depth and layering, superb bass speed. I got my warm fix by loading my front end with a warm DAC. When I say warm DAC my DAC 5 is smooth and organic as NOS and tubed. It is warm I guess compared to many DS DACs I have demoed, but I don't lack any detail or speed, it is more about timbre and lack of any fatigue.

Thus I would look at the front end and tube roll your DAC, and / or look at the way you feed it. I got rid of my last bit of 'digital hash' finally by dropping USB and tweaking up my Mac Mini and adding LPS's to the Mac Mini and Rednet. Hope this helps. PM me if you want, I can try explain more.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks Soren and Julian...i guessed as much - KG and Birgir prefer neutral sounding amps but having said that, Birgir prefers the 007 so i suppose he prefers musicality to outright neutrality..


----------



## thinker

Thaudiophile said:


> How does the Phenomenon Canorum compare to N3rdling's Orpheus Clone considering that they both have very similar shape and design?


because i'm probably the only owner of the new Canorum with the latest driver version 2 and i guess new owners will report in some weeks,it's too early to say anything how it compares to Orpheus clone etc..One of Canorum features is that you are taken in to music in such a way that you forget to analyze how it sounds.


----------



## JimL11 (Sep 3, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> Thanks Soren and Julian...i guessed as much - KG and Birgir prefer neutral sounding amps but having said that, Birgir prefers the 007 so i suppose he prefers musicality to outright neutrality..



Birgir feels the 007 (Mk II with port mod) IS neutral and the 009 is bright.  Same with Bob Katz (well, he feels it's much closer than the 009).  Same with Tyll.  And me (through an SRX-Plus).  Obviously, not everyone agrees.   This is an old argument that will never be settled (unless Stax comes out with an SR-010 which everyone agrees supersedes both).


----------



## Rossliew

JimL11 said:


> Birgir feels the 007 (Mk II with port mod) IS neutral and the 009 is bright.  Same with Bob Katz (well, he feels it's much closer than the 009).  Same with Tyll.  And me (through an SRX-Plus).  Obviously, not everyone agrees.



Yeah, to each his own - no right or wrong here


----------



## Ali-Pacha

You all need a serious listening session with @n3rdling clones. I foresee a dramatic crash of 007 value 

Ali


----------



## georgep

Ali-Pacha said:


> ..... I foresee a dramatic crash of 007 value
> 
> Ali



I don't.


----------



## musicday

Ali-Pacha said:


> You all need a serious listening session with @n3rdling clones. I foresee a dramatic crash of 007 value
> 
> Ali


I would like to see 009 getting cheaper so i can buy a new one


----------



## hpeter

Pokemonn said:


> we dont know it yet. but probably the end game for my wallet. lol


i remember when i raped my wallet....  rip
i must admit  quite a endurance, it has


----------



## hpeter

thinker said:


> Canorum on head picture, i cannot comment the sound yet,the seller said i have to run these couple of days before making reviews.A small issue is that drivers make some hiss noise and hope it disappers at some point.These appear warmer than Libratum wich i heard at some point













literally


----------



## JimL11

soren_brix said:


> Spritzer sent Tyll a 'special' KGSS 3 years ago https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...n-electrostatic-headphone-measurement-program to be used for reference.
> Also, Bob had a KGSS from Headamp (put of for sale recently).
> Anyways, the "report" is just a badly done compilation of various Spritzer statements throughout the past two years about the Carbon and the SR-007 - blended with some of the usual Katz EQ'ing.



Well, not entirely.  He does make a comment about the KGSS, "which has a slightly etched high end and gets harsh on peaks," that I hadn't seen stated quite so explicitly in the past.


----------



## soren_brix

JimL11 said:


> Well, not entirely.  He does make a comment about the KGSS, "which has a slightly etched high end and gets harsh on peaks," that I hadn't seen stated quite so explicitly in the past.


why should that comment be of special importance in context of everything else he states? I'm sure he is happy about getting a Carbon for free, but the in-fidelity review most of all reflect that he didn't really bother to do a proper review


----------



## nvfan

Has anyone made a custom EQ curve for the Stax SR009? There's a ton of them for the HD800 but it seems hard to find anyone who has done any custom EQ curves for the 009.

I personally boost lows below 700Hz by about 3-4 db, and decrease the 4k by 2db and raise 6k by 2db, but wonder what other people are doing to EQ their 009s. It seems like the L700 has a much flatter treble than the 009 which requires some work to be neutral.


----------



## miko64 (Sep 4, 2017)

Some posts back discussed: kingstone m3 as a portable energizer amp and need for a better DAC. Here my solution to the puzzle: stax srm 252 w batteries, sr007/2 and hugo2 as a DAC. This sounds really good!


----------



## musicday

Just had a listening session with Kingsound M-03 with 007 Mk2 and i used the Tera Player as source. Wonderful pairing. Also tried Stax SRM-007tII.
They didn't had the 009 as i want to get a pair.
Once you hear Stax is hard to listen to something else  like the LCD-OLED transition.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol (Sep 4, 2017)

Welcome to a money black hole (SR-007), it just keeps getting better with better gear, like it has no limits, I had planned to change my car to a better one, but decided to keep my old car for a year, and max out the 007 setup...don't take that route


----------



## Whitigir

Let's just say Carbon and G


ToroFiestaSol said:


> Welcome to a money black hole (SR-007), it just keeps getting better with better gear, like it has no limits, I had planned to change my car to a better one, but decided to keep my old car for a of year, and max out the 007 setup...don't take that route


lol, whatever you like better = worth it to compromise for


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Whitigir said:


> Let's just say Carbon and G
> 
> lol, whatever you like better = worth it to compromise for



Carbon and Metrum Adagio 
The car is an Opel Corsa, not the most manly car ever but cheap as a lighter to mantain, I would like a second hand Porsche 997 but Stax and the Apogees are first, music is everything


----------



## JimL11

soren_brix said:


> why should that comment be of special importance in context of everything else he states? I'm sure he is happy about getting a Carbon for free, but the in-fidelity review most of all reflect that he didn't really bother to do a proper review



Actually, he is not getting a Carbon for free.  "Still, I'm not sure I can afford this amp...I haven't decided if I'll break the news to Mary that I have to have it, nor whether she'll approve of this expenditure."  And elsewhere, he says bought the Dynalo Mk II.


----------



## musicday

Quick question, since i couldn't compare 007 mk2 and 009 side by side, who's got bigger earcups, and is more comfortable to listen for long periods of time. 007 mk2 was great but not same comfort as Master 1 IMO.


----------



## JimL11 (Sep 4, 2017)

mulveling said:


> Exactly. Bob and Tyll are considered experts, and their opinions are heeded by many thousands of high-end headphone enthusiasts. It's almost like they should, I dunno, maybe keep a reference electrostatic headphone rig on hand
> Nah, it's crazy for reviewers to keep a reference. Just plug this stuff into whatever crap is on hand.



Well, now, let's think about this for a minute.  I imagine Tyll gets non-electrostatic headphones monthly for review, so it makes sense for him to buy a "reference" amp to test those.  OTOH, how often does he get electrostatic headphones for review?  Last time was a couple years ago.  Yes, there are a couple coming up: Mr. Speakers, HFM,  maybe n3rdling's Orpheus clones if he ever decides to make them a commercial product. The Sennheiser HE-1 and Sonoma don't count because they have dedicated amps.  It is less sensible for him to buy an amp that he MAY need to use every few years for testing, which is probably why spritzer gave him one - because he wasn't going to buy one on his own.  It would be great if Justin could do the same with a BHSE but considering HeadAmp's profit margins, not very feasible.  And the problem with DIY amps, regardless of how good they are, is, only a small fraction of potential buyers is going to have access, or going to build, one, so how do you make sense of a review that uses an amp that most people have never heard and can't get?  And that's even without getting into the issue of which DIY version of which amplifier?  For the KGSSHV, for example, do you want the mini version with KGBH PS, or a maxi with Golden reference HVPS.  What about the LV - Golden Reference or 7815/7915 basic PS?  Let's face it, the stat headphone market is a small sliver of the audiophile market, which is a small slice of the overall headphone market (Beats, anyone?).

Now, Bob isn't a reviewer per se, he is a mastering engineer who sometimes uses headphones for his job, and occasionally does a review as a sideline.  If he gets a "reference" amp, it is because he needs one for his job, not because he is going to be reviewing a bunch of headphones. IIRC, before he had a KGSS and SR-007 Mk II, he used a Stax SRA-12S (one of their first solid state amps from the 1970s) with Stax SR-3 and SR-5 headphones, also from the 1970s, which tells you how often he replaces amps and headphones.

So, yeah, in a perfect reviewing world, Tyll and Bob would have reference electrostatic headphone amps.  And as long as we're at it, I want a pony for Christmas.


----------



## soren_brix (Sep 4, 2017)

JimL11 said:


> Well, now, let's think about this for a minute.  I imagine Tyll gets non-electrostatic headphones monthly for review, so it makes sense for him to buy a "reference" amp to test those.  OTOH, how often does he get electrostatic headphones for review?  Last time was a couple years ago.  Yes, there are a couple coming up: Mr. Speakers, HFM,  maybe n3rdling's Orpheus clones if he ever decides to make them a commercial product. The Sennheiser HE-1 and Sonoma don't count because they have dedicated amps.  It is less sensible for him to buy an amp that he MAY need to use every few years for testing, which is probably why spritzer gave him one - because he wasn't going to buy one on his own.  It would be great if Justin could do the same with a BHSE but considering HeadAmp's profit margins, not very feasible.  And the problem with DIY amps, regardless of how good they are, is, only a small fraction of potential buyers is going to have access, or going to build, one, so how do you make sense of a review that uses an amp that most people have never heard and can't get?  And that's even without getting into the issue of which DIY version of which amplifier?  For the KGSSHV, for example, do you want the mini version with KGBH PS, or a maxi with Golden reference HVPS.  What about the LV - Golden Reference or 7815/7915 basic PS?  Let's face it, the stat headphone market is a small sliver of the audiophile market, which is a small slice of the overall headphone market (Beats, anyone?).
> 
> Now, Bob isn't a reviewer per se, he is a mastering engineer who sometimes uses headphones for his job, and occasionally does a review as a sideline.  If he gets a "reference" amp, it is because he needs one for his job, not because he is going to be reviewing a bunch of headphones. IIRC, before he had a KGSS and SR-007 Mk II, he used a Stax SRA-12S (one of their first solid state amps from the 1970s) with Stax SR-3 and SR-5 headphones, also from the 1970s, which tells you how often he replaces amps and headphones.
> 
> So, yeah, in a perfect reviewing world, Tyll and Bob would have reference electrostatic headphone amps.  And as long as we're at it, I want a pony for Christmas.



So, yeah, now, let's think about this for a minute: "WHY" comes to mind; WHY post a review that is obviously just a rehash of what Spritzer has stated for the past two years? WHY post a review of something Bob Katz 'might' have bought if Bob Katz doesn't has anything to say about it? WHY have a 'corner' if it isn't of any particular interest? ....and Tyll, is of course excused, as he is probably busy doing review's of Massdrop stuff. WHY talk about DIY, when the thing in question isn't DIY but a product?
Why you want a pony, not sure, being your age, I'd probably go for a horse..


----------



## JimL11

Wow, you're grumpy today! Chill out, go listen to some music.  Remember, not everybody has been reading spritzer for the past few years.  Not everybody knows about Mjolnir Audio.  Katz's blog may be the first they are hearing about the KGSS Carbon.

The pony was a joke. JOKE!  Sheesh.


----------



## wink

Yeah.    Not everynody trolls around the different Forums.
For some, Head-Fi is the be-all and end-all for things headphone related. (poor benighted souls, they be).

As for a pony, gimme a moose.... so much more character............. And, no, I am NOT Canadian.


----------



## wrathofkhan

Hi All, Just got onto this thread and find it very interesting.

I have a query and if someone could offer an explanation I would be grateful and is as follows:-
Since the day of purchase of my SR 009s I noticed that when positioned on my head, if I press the earcups just lightly inwards I get a noise like a fart (only way I can explain it) on both earcups.
The dealer immediately had them replaced only to find they did the same also. As both pairs played impeccably it was agreed that to see how things went over time.

Does anyone else have this problem or is it normal and if so why?.

Thanks all


----------



## Ali-Pacha (Sep 5, 2017)

Stax fart is a well known aspect of those headphones. If you're not trolling, I may suggest to find another dealer as yours is maybe the most stupidly incompetent in Stax's stuff...

Ali


----------



## TheAttorney (Sep 5, 2017)

Yes the famous Stax fart is complety normal and mentioned many times in this thread (particularly for the SR-009 and SR-007 Mk1). It's something to do with sudden air pressure change when the perfectly sealed pads suddenly lose their seal. When Stax tried to remove the issue with the SR-007 Mk2 by introducing a small air gap, most users complained that it spoiled sound quality, so there's various DIY fixes with blutak etc to block up the air gap.
In short, don't worry about it and stop pressing the earcups  (or moving your head suddenly)

Edit: Ali beat me to it. I've come across dealers not aware of the Stax fart. They're not necessarily stupid, just don't share the same passion in headphones as some of us. Most dealers are still heavily loudspeaker focused.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Yep, sorry for the rough statement...should be possible I spend too much time on the other site 

Ali


----------



## musicday

Let's bump this thread a bit 
I know that headband on 009 doesn't look good and it is prone to cracks so i was thinking about something similar to MrSpeakers's memory wire,NiTinol.That probably will improve the comfort and certainly will last much longer.How hard will it be do add such a headband to Stax009?
Any thoughts?


----------



## bmichels

musicday said:


> Let's bump this thread a bit
> I know that headband on 009 doesn't look good and it is prone to cracks so i was thinking about something similar to MrSpeakers's memory wire,NiTinol.That probably will improve the comfort and certainly will last much longer.How hard will it be do add such a headband to Stax009?
> Any thoughts?



Well. My initial though is : If it works.... don't fix it.


----------



## musicday (Sep 5, 2017)

bmichels said:


> Well. My initial though is : If it works.... don't fix it.


I do agree with you, that was just a suggestion.
The headband quality could be higher especially at this price point, maybe in the Stax SR-010 next year at CES 2018


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

I have low expectations for SR-010...this is from 2012:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-interview-and-factory-tour-12-12-12.650210/

" *if we are to bring a new flagship amp to the market, it would have to exceed the performance of the T2*, no less. So, we are taking all these factors into consideration and are currently in the design phase.
The design has effectively started and we are at the stage of deciding on an enclosure size and such. The fundamental design is complete actually but there is a lot more left such as the casing because it certainly won't fit in the current enclosures"

Guess what they did? Yeah baby, the SRM-T8000, and is it better than T2? Come on, according to trusty reports, it's a bigger, slightly better 717...dissapointment is not enough to describe this situation.

We don't know how much SR-010 will cost, but if it is 2x 009 price, I would expect it to be better than 009 and any 007 setup in the world, with mods and aftermarket amps included...Stax is an enigma so everything can happen, but after the T8000 my particular expectations are pretty low.


----------



## AnakChan

musicday said:


> Let's bump this thread a bit
> I know that headband on 009 doesn't look good and it is prone to cracks so i was thinking about something similar to MrSpeakers's memory wire,NiTinol.That probably will improve the comfort and certainly will last much longer.How hard will it be do add such a headband to Stax009?
> Any thoughts?


Prone to cracks? My SR-009 is 5.5 yrs old. No cracks.


----------



## mulveling

I'm not sure what kind of humans you guys know, but it sure as hell doesn't sound like a "fart" to me (who coined this, anyways). I'm skeptical that anyone who wasn't already aware of this phenomenon would call it "fart" right off the bat. My troll sensors are ringing on this one.


----------



## bearFNF

The only "cracks" I have seen is the head clamp dude that just broke his headband due to wrapping rubber bands or whatever around the headband.

The only other issue I have seen is the adjuster clips breaking, mostly on demo headphones at shows, but one I know at a private residence.


musicday said:


> Let's bump this thread a bit
> I know that headband on 009 doesn't look good and it is prone to cracks so i was thinking about something similar to MrSpeakers's memory wire,NiTinol.That probably will improve the comfort and certainly will last much longer.How hard will it be do add such a headband to Stax009?
> Any thoughts?


----------



## bearFNF

Sounds more like a crinkling or popping sound to me than a fart.


mulveling said:


> I'm not sure what kind of humans you guys know, but it sure as hell doesn't sound like a "fart" to me (who coined this, anyways). I'm skeptical that anyone who wasn't already aware of this phenomenon would call it "fart" right off the bat. My troll sensors are ringing on this one.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Even Stax's farts have musicality, very tube like fart if you ask me


----------



## wrathofkhan

TheAttorney said:


> Yes the famous Stax fart is complety normal and mentioned many times in this thread (particularly for the SR-009 and SR-007 Mk1). It's something to do with sudden air pressure change when the perfectly sealed pads suddenly lose their seal. When Stax tried to remove the issue with the SR-007 Mk2 by introducing a small air gap, most users complained that it spoiled sound quality, so there's various DIY fixes with blutak etc to block up the air gap.
> In short, don't worry about it and stop pressing the earcups  (or moving your head suddenly)
> 
> Edit: Ali beat me to it. I've come across dealers not aware of the Stax fart. They're not necessarily stupid, just don't share the same passion in headphones as some of us. Most dealers are still heavily loudspeaker focused.



I had this feeling that it was kinda normal because it did it on both SR-009s but it sure was a relief that it is not a fault.

Thank you Attorney and others for your speedy helpful response.


----------



## MacedonianHero

AnakChan said:


> Prone to cracks? My SR-009 is 5.5 yrs old. No cracks.



Mine too...zero cracks whatsoever.


----------



## Olschl

I have a pair of SR X series replacement pads coming from a non-USA
distributor, since I never received any reply from any of the alleged ones
in my homeland.
I don't think they'll fart; but I won't mind if they sound better
(_musically,_ that is) than the threadbare fossils I've been using.


----------



## behwatch

musicday said:


> Let's bump this thread a bit
> I know that headband on 009 doesn't look good and it is prone to cracks so i was thinking about something similar to MrSpeakers's memory wire,NiTinol.That probably will improve the comfort and certainly will last much longer.How hard will it be do add such a headband to Stax009?
> Any thoughts?



Most likely user problem. Mine no cracks or any problems since 2012...


----------



## Ali-Pacha

MacedonianHero said:


> Mine too...zero cracks whatsoever.


Sliders on the headband are prone to cracking when settings are done by pushing the headpad when phones are on the head.
When sliders are individually and manually set to gey the proper settling, there's absolutely no risk of early cracking 

Ali


----------



## astrostar59

JimL11 said:


> Well, now, let's think about this for a minute.  I imagine Tyll gets non-electrostatic headphones monthly for review, so it makes sense for him to buy a "reference" amp to test those.  OTOH, how often does he get electrostatic headphones for review?  Last time was a couple years ago.  Yes, there are a couple coming up: Mr. Speakers, HFM,  maybe n3rdling's Orpheus clones if he ever decides to make them a commercial product. The Sennheiser HE-1 and Sonoma don't count because they have dedicated amps.  It is less sensible for him to buy an amp that he MAY need to use every few years for testing, which is probably why spritzer gave him one - because he wasn't going to buy one on his own.  It would be great if Justin could do the same with a BHSE but considering HeadAmp's profit margins, not very feasible.  And the problem with DIY amps, regardless of how good they are, is, only a small fraction of potential buyers is going to have access, or going to build, one, so how do you make sense of a review that uses an amp that most people have never heard and can't get?  And that's even without getting into the issue of which DIY version of which amplifier?  For the KGSSHV, for example, do you want the mini version with KGBH PS, or a maxi with Golden reference HVPS.  What about the LV - Golden Reference or 7815/7915 basic PS?  Let's face it, the stat headphone market is a small sliver of the audiophile market, which is a small slice of the overall headphone market (Beats, anyone?).
> 
> Now, Bob isn't a reviewer per se, he is a mastering engineer who sometimes uses headphones for his job, and occasionally does a review as a sideline.  If he gets a "reference" amp, it is because he needs one for his job, not because he is going to be reviewing a bunch of headphones. IIRC, before he had a KGSS and SR-007 Mk II, he used a Stax SRA-12S (one of their first solid state amps from the 1970s) with Stax SR-3 and SR-5 headphones, also from the 1970s, which tells you how often he replaces amps and headphones.
> 
> So, yeah, in a perfect reviewing world, Tyll and Bob would have reference electrostatic headphone amps.  And as long as we're at it, I want a pony for Christmas.



Great point there JimL11. And I agree 100%. I have a mixed view on 'reviewers' both HP systems and speaker systems. I won't say all are rubbish or biased, BUT they are doing it for a living, which means they cannot say any product is the absolute best ever. This won't make sense and would in effect make them redundant, unemployable. Yes a few have said such a statement, but it is rare, and all to often they misquote that later as the opposite. A top HP like the 009 needs a top DAC as a source, bung an iPhone on the end and the BHSE and 009 will be 'tizzy' for sure, big time.




 

Also, having heard a reasonable spread of other top HPs at Can-Jam, then some low-mid range mass market phones I believe some manufactures treat the design of such HPs as EQ machines. None of those HPs had anything like a linear or transparent sound signature. In most cases they boomed up the bass response and drew back the crucial 4-6 kHz ranges to be more forgiving with cheaper / weaker sources. I am the first to admit I sat on the train back from Can-Jam for 4 hours enjoying my Pioneer SE-MHR5s on dance and other energy material. It does entertain. But just for fun when I got home, I played the same Rammstein track on my 09s and Carbon, then the Pioneers out of my iPod, well another track entirely came out, almost was it actually the same track? I don't need to tell you which sounded right and had 300% more information in it! And the sound out of the little Pioneers, if that was replicated in a full size speaker in a typical room setting, the bass would shake the walls and drown out the vocals, generally become annoying and anti social TBH, just obviously inaccurate and coloured.

Going back to reviewers some have said 'I like the XX so much 'it is a keeper' or 'reached for my cheque book' I want to believe this is genuine, but you never know if they got it for half price or less. Maybe my paranoia? But I do try to read posters on here and use my ears more than magazine reviews. And that is why this community is so damb good!


----------



## buzzlulu

Side question - I need to buy two Stax CPC-1 covers however cannot find any place Stateside.  Short of eBay from Japan any suggestions?


----------



## Olschl

You can try HiFi headphones CA (canada)
https://www.hifiheadphones.ca/stax-cpc-1-clear-protective-cover/#desc

Or go to the Stax site and look up the Canadian Distributors. 
I got my ear pads from American Sound
http://www.americansound.com/


----------



## XLR8

If you had a choice between sr 007 and sr 009 which would you choose and why?


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

XLR8 said:


> If you had a choice between sr 007 and sr 009 which would you choose and why?



If you like Grado, you'll love 009.


----------



## paradoxper (Sep 6, 2017)

Get out. ^


----------



## astrostar59

XLR8 said:


> If you had a choice between sr 007 and sr 009 which would you choose and why?



This is an easy one to answer IMO. If you have a smooth sounding DAC (it really does need a top DAC) then the 009s. Otherwise go for the 007. It does enough right and is more forgiving of the source. The amp used is also important, as the 007 is hungry (lazy) and needs lots of juice, the 009 is more efficient but IMO sound thin and bright on the Stax amps.

Hope this helps


----------



## seaice

XLR8 said:


> If you had a choice between sr 007 and sr 009 which would you choose and why?



Silly but personal experience with both: With Carbon, I would choose 009 because I prefer it


----------



## JimL11

This has been rehashed repeatedly in this thread in the past.  Suggest you do a search.


----------



## bearFNF

Elusive Disc list them but they are out of stock, might drop them and email to see if they are or will order them.

I would check Woo Audio for you but they keep coming up as a dangerous site for me in Norton. 

Amazon also lists them but from Japan and for a lot more $$.


buzzlulu said:


> Side question - I need to buy two Stax CPC-1 covers however cannot find any place Stateside.  Short of eBay from Japan any suggestions?


----------



## buzzlulu

Spoke with Elusive- since USA Stax is out of business (?) they are not expecting any in. 
Woo only had one not two 

Sounds like eBay and Japan


----------



## Ali-Pacha (Sep 17, 2017)

XLR8 said:


> If you had a choice between sr 007 and sr 009 which would you choose and why?


If you like softish / veiled sound with duck-like tone, murky bass, one-note highs with a peak around 8-10 khz and most of all you're sensitive to mafia's hype train, get 007. Otherwise get 009 

More seriously, I do acknowledge 009 have some flaws, mostly a 1-2 khz hyped-up tone which depends on amps (but very well controlled out of BHSE / Carbon / whatever KG serious amping), as well as 007 have a kinda of magic to some ears that fall immediately in love with them.

I've never found this magic as I find them dull and boring, and with something annoying in the highs. Moreover, the bass can't compete with 009, it's just less controlled and not even to same level in quantity. The only things I could borrow from 007 for my 009 are soundstage, a bit wider / better with 007, and look (from 007mk2) as well as headband system.

Those feelings jumped at me almost right away after I buy them, but I've kept them until the arrival of my BHSE, hoping some serious waking up. Indeed, BHSE wakes them up, but so did it with 009 and all my other Staxens (SR-5 and Sigma Pro out of BHSE, pure treat).

I ended up selling my 007mk1 after listening to @n3rdling clones, showing me what a less "artificially energetic" than 009 tone has to sound, perfectly right and leaving definitely 007 and their fake-laid-back-tone-which-pretends-to-be-right in the dust.

So best advice is to try. You may be one of those who are sensitive to this specific 007 magic I've never found 

Ali


----------



## XLR8

Thnx to those who replied. 
One last question. 

Which of the two benefits best from a tube amplifier? 

Thnx.


----------



## musicday

I want to buy 009 new and i have found a nice deal importing from Japan, but as usual the warranty will not cover UK. Has anyone else imported them from Japan? Some insight, suggestions will be appreciated.


----------



## AnakChan (Sep 7, 2017)

musicday said:


> I want to buy 009 new and i have found a nice deal importing from Japan, but as usual the warranty will not cover UK. Has anyone else imported them from Japan? Some insight, suggestions will be appreciated.


This is also a well covered topic which you probably can find here. IMHO search for the most recent case of channel imbalance and start from there. If one hasn't been reported for months (or this year), then the risk is likely lower.

I've helped an overseas friend sort out a channel imbalance and all up the shipping back 'n forth alone ended up around the $350-$400 mark. No charges to the channel imbalance repair naturally as that part was under local Japanese warranty.


----------



## Ali-Pacha (Sep 7, 2017)

XLR8 said:


> Thnx to those who replied.
> One last question.
> 
> Which of the two benefits best from a tube amplifier?
> ...


There's no real "generic tube sound" in the world of e-stat amps. It depends on the design and also on where tubes sit within it. And you can't compare it with edyn habits.

For example, Stax "historic" amps (007t2, 006ts, T1) have transistor first stages and tube outputs, very mellow mids, and a severe lack of steam for 007. KGST is a "fixed" 007t2, with regulated PS and moar power on tap. T8000 has tube inputs and SS outputs, but sounds more or less like a 717 (SS) despite the tubes.
BHSE has SS fist stages and tubes output, and sounds absolutely not tube-ish even if mids are mellower than SS KG circuits

You also have rarities like T2 (hybrid as well) or Megatron (full tubes), but it's all over risky to write a generic rules of "tube sound" for e-stat amps.

Looking back at your 007 vs. 009 question, you also have to compare 007mk2 to 007mk1. The latter are more praised all around and have more technicalities to my ears, but mk2 have less annoying peak in the highs, and the low-mids bump due to the leaky design adds some enjoyment to the 007 slipper's behaviour (comfy but flabby)

Ali


----------



## astrostar59

Ali-Pacha said:


> If you like softish / veiled sound with duck-like tone, murky bass, one-note highs with a peak around 8-10 khz and most of all you're sensitive to mafia's hype train, get 007. Otherwise get 009
> Ali



Ha Ha, like it Ali-Pacha. I thought that but didn't dare say it! Yes the 007 is good, very good, but after hearing the 009s and even the Utopia, you realise it is coloured. It is a great fix for a sharpish digital front end (many modern DS DACs TBH) but ultimately is an EQ'd HP as I was commenting on earlier. If someone goes all out to find a super smooth DAC free from digital nasties, then the 009 is the open door to heaven and the way to go. If not, go for the 'EQ' 007. 

I have found the circa > 2015 007 is as good as the MK1, maybe bit livelier, so as though Stax tweaked it a bit? The cluster of circa < 2015 MK2s out their that sound sluggish and lumpy are the ones to avoid IMO.


----------



## zolkis

Ali-Pacha said:


> Looking back at your 007 vs. 009 question, you also have to compare 007mk2 to 007mk1. The latter are more praised all around and have more technicalities to my ears, but mk2 have less annoying peak in the highs, and the low-mids bump due to the leaky design adds some enjoyment to the 007 slipper's behaviour (comfy but flabby)
> 
> Ali



To state a somewhat conflicting view, I have found the mk1 to be more open sounding (more mids), more extended in the deep bass and with more sub-bass impact but with less midbass impact than the mk2/3, smoother mids, and smoother highs as well. I guess what you hear may also depend on recordings and the music genre. I usually judge sonic qualities with instrumental music. With jazz, I often preferred the mk2. With both, the 009 usually comes out more neutral and with better pitch than both 007. Still, the 007 mk1 holds up quite well, especially when considering the price, the much lighter weight, and much better head-fitting possibilities (though it's not really an issue with the 009, I like it as it is, no need for clamping force change or anything, but I'd prefer the 007 light weight and adjustments). Also, I don't find the 009 to be too bright, nor hard in the sound, especially with the BHSE.

For an newbie, I would give 90% chance that someone would like the 009, and much less chance that one would like the 007 so much that won't upgrade to the 009 (and then the whole chain) - but it does happen, either on sonic or economic grounds (diminishing returns). So there is no way out, one needs to listen to both and decide which poison to choose.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

zolkis said:


> To state a somewhat conflicting view, I have found the mk1 to be more open sounding (more mids), more extended in the deep bass and with more sub-bass impact but with less midbass impact than the mk2/3, smoother mids,


 I do agree until this part 


zolkis said:


> and smoother highs as well.


Let's agree to disagree there. The 9 khz peak that annoys me is definitely more present on mk1 vs mk2, you can check measurements from innerfidelity or those we made with Sorrodje on the other site 



zolkis said:


> I guess what you hear may also depend on recordings and the music genre. I usually judge sonic qualities with instrumental music. With jazz, I often preferred the mk2. With both, the 009 usually comes out more neutral and with better pitch than both 007. Still, the 007 mk1 holds up quite well, especially when considering the price, the much lighter weight, and much better head-fitting possibilities (though it's not really an issue with the 009, I like it as it is, no need for clamping force change or anything, but I'd prefer the 007 light weight and adjustments). Also, I don't find the 009 to be too bright, nor hard in the sound, especially with the BHSE.
> 
> For an newbie, I would give 90% chance that someone would like the 009, and much less chance that one would like the 007 so much that won't upgrade to the 009 (and then the whole chain) - but it does happen, either on sonic or economic grounds (diminishing returns). So there is no way out, one needs to listen to both and decide which poison to choose.


So you're like me, not so annoyed by the 1-2 khz of 009. And yes, 009 are more impressive on first contact...except for those who are sensible to 007's magic 

Ali


----------



## zolkis (Sep 7, 2017)

Yeah, I should have said here as well that both my 007 Mk1 and Mk2 were without the springs and with slightly thinner pad filling. This was the configuration I found optimal for both. Also, that might explain the difference in treble. 
I need to dig out my own measurements of mk1 vs mk2, IIRC the mk1 did have a ridge, not a peak around 9 kHz, and the mk2 had more of a peak and less of a ridge.
BTW I did "calibrate" my measurement rig vs innerfidelity and the duper-frendz rigs with well known headphones like the HD650, SR507 and there was no major deviation there, though treble measurements are not reliable anywhere.
With these remarks, I still stand by my statement (which is not comparable really with yours, since we speak about stock vs modded configurations) - but the mods are reversible and free for everyone to try.


----------



## XLR8

Many thanks to those who replied. Legendary... 

I am torn between mk1 007 and 009. We will see if i can find a mk 1 007.


----------



## XLR8

This is an interesting read as well. 
www.headphoneer.com/stax-sr007mki-vs-stax-sr009/


----------



## astrostar59

XLR8 said:


> Many thanks to those who replied. Legendary...
> 
> I am torn between mk1 007 and 009. We will see if i can find a mk 1 007.



*Few points*
1. Finding a MK1 will result in a HP well over 10 years old at least.
2. The cable entry on the MK1 is weak, a problem and often fails
3. Chances are the cups will be worn and the dust covers full of crud / dust / grease
4. If a driver goes, Stax will need to fit mk2 drivers anyway
5. MK2 2015 on is faster and more alive / accurate than the pre 2015 MK2, and IMO as good as the Mk1 maybe better
6. MK1s fetch silly money, beyond the value IMO.
7. Forget all the above and get the 009, you will end up with it anyway later, so buy now - JUST DO IT (as Arnie says....)

You can thank me later.


----------



## JimL11

OTOH, there's this:

1)  the SR-007 Mk II is significantly cheaper than the SR-009, this allows a bigger budget for an amp - good ones include SRX Plus, KGSS Carbon and Blue Hawaii SE.
2) well known recording engineer Bob Katz considers the SR-007 Mk II (with port mod) superior to the SR-009 in tonal balance, see his recent blog post on InnerFidelity, "I have a love affair with my Stax SR-007 Mk2 phones, which I judge to be superior, smoother, more musical and accurate than the expensive SR-009 model."  

https://www.innerfidelity.com/category/katzs-corner


----------



## astrostar59

JimL11 said:


> OTOH, there's this:
> 
> 1)  the SR-007 Mk II is significantly cheaper than the SR-009, this allows a bigger budget for an amp - good ones include SRX Plus, KGSS Carbon and Blue Hawaii SE.
> 2) well known recording engineer Bob Katz considers the SR-007 Mk II (with port mod) superior to the SR-009 in tonal balance, see his recent blog post on InnerFidelity, "I have a love affair with my Stax SR-007 Mk2 phones, which I judge to be superior, smoother, more musical and accurate than the expensive SR-009 model."
> ...



True, but as has been commented here alread Bob's last HP was an ancient Stax lower range unit and amp. So I don't rate his opinion TBH. Yes he is a recording engineer, doesn't mean he is an audiophile and has top gear to use with it either.

The 009 scales beyond the 007 IMO once a good DAC and amp is in front of it. On the BHSE or Carbon the 009 leave the 007 well behind. Only The EQ as I call it in the 007 is forgiving in some systems, but in my setup I prefer without that effect.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

It really depends, the guy who asked the question has a lot of Grado headphones in his signature, so more than probably he'll prefer the 009 if he likes Grados.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

JimL11 said:


> OTOH, there's this:
> 
> 1)  the SR-007 Mk II is significantly cheaper than the SR-009, this allows a bigger budget for an amp - good ones include SRX Plus, KGSS Carbon and Blue Hawaii SE.
> 2) well known recording engineer Bob Katz considers the SR-007 Mk II (with port mod) superior to the SR-009 in tonal balance, see his recent blog post on InnerFidelity, "I have a love affair with my Stax SR-007 Mk2 phones, which I judge to be superior, smoother, more musical and accurate than the expensive SR-009 model."
> https://www.innerfidelity.com/category/katzs-corner


I do agree with your first part, but strongly disagree with the second authoritative argument. I've read statement from recording engineer that are more than strange, like Utopia and LCD4 are pretty comparable.

Specifically, reading Bob Katz' statements activates automatically the "_*oh man, another random 'murican warm-head in love with Audeze and overemphasing his own experience to make it look objective*_" trigger to me  Even if I quite like a good ol' LCD-2

Ali


----------



## JimL11 (Sep 7, 2017)

Ali-Pacha said:


> I do agree with your first part, but strongly disagree with the second authoritative argument. I've read statement from recording engineer that are more than strange, like Utopia and LCD4 are pretty comparable.
> 
> Specifically, reading Bob Katz' statements activates automatically the "_*oh man, another random 'murican warm-head in love with Audeze and overemphasing his own experience to make it look objective*_" trigger to me  Even if I quite like a good ol' LCD-2
> 
> Ali


We're all entitled to our own opinion.  This is why the best advice is always to listen for yourself.   Just to add a little balance, a few months ago we had a little Head-Fi meet in Albuquerque in a library, so a reasonably quiet environment.  I brought along a HeadAmp BHSE, SR-007 Mk II with port mod, and SR-009. Out of six persons (not including myself) who listened to both headphones, three preferred the 007, three preferred the 009.  I prefer the 007 myself.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Indeed 

Ali


----------



## zolkis

IME when comparing headphones, it is a rewarding strategy to not rely on short impressions, but take your time. Long (days of) A/B sessions with well known music selection may make different outcome than short comparisons. For me it's been always very revealing how I judged the sound right after waking up at dawn (ambient silence, plus ears and brains adapted to silence). I almost never had to change impressions formed in early morning listening after a good sleep - though it happens rarely, since I am a night owl.


----------



## JimL11

zolkis said:


> IME when comparing headphones, it is a rewarding strategy to not rely on short impressions, but take your time. Long (days of) A/B sessions with well known music selection may make different outcome than short comparisons. For me it's been always very revealing how I judged the sound right after waking up at dawn (ambient silence, plus ears and brains adapted to silence). I almost never had to change impressions formed in early morning listening after a good sleep - though it happens rarely, since I am a night owl.



Definitely something to this.  Some systems promote long listening sessions, while others make you more fatigued as you listen for longer periods.


----------



## JimL11

astrostar59 said:


> True, but as has been commented here alread Bob's last HP was an ancient Stax lower range unit and amp. So I don't rate his opinion TBH. Yes he is a recording engineer, doesn't mean he is an audiophile and has top gear to use with it either.



This is true, but he has also heard many of the TOTL headphones at Tyll's Big Sound 2015 event, to which he brought his own modded SR-007s (which means that he owned them at least since then).  If you've read his blog he has a pretty high end speaker system, which he uses in his day job, he has a trained ear which he uses daily in his business, and finally, he uses his own material which he mastered, so he knows better than most what it should sound like - that is an advantage that very few of us have.  You don't have to agree with his opinion, but he has better backup for it than most of us here.


----------



## nvfan

JimL11 said:


> This is true, but he has also heard many of the TOTL headphones at Tyll's Big Sound 2015 event, to which he brought his own modded SR-007s (which means that he owned them at least since then).  If you've read his blog he has a pretty high end speaker system, which he uses in his day job, he has a trained ear which he uses daily in his business, and finally, he uses his own material which he mastered, so he knows better than most what it should sound like - that is an advantage that very few of us have.  You don't have to agree with his opinion, but he has better backup for it than most of us here.





JimL11 said:


> OTOH, there's this:
> 
> 1)  the SR-007 Mk II is significantly cheaper than the SR-009, this allows a bigger budget for an amp - good ones include SRX Plus, KGSS Carbon and Blue Hawaii SE.
> 2) well known recording engineer Bob Katz considers the SR-007 Mk II (with port mod) superior to the SR-009 in tonal balance, see his recent blog post on InnerFidelity, "I have a love affair with my Stax SR-007 Mk2 phones, which I judge to be superior, smoother, more musical and accurate than the expensive SR-009 model."
> ...



He uses a Dynaudio Confidence speakers system as well which is well known for it's smoothness (aka, rolled off details). In general it seems Bob Katz prefers smoother sound vs analytical (LCD-4 vs Utopia for instance).


----------



## JimL11 (Sep 7, 2017)

alcoholbob said:


> He uses a Dynaudio Confidence speakers system as well which is well known for it's smoothness (aka, rolled off details). In general it seems Bob Katz prefers smoother sound vs analytical (LCD-4 vs Utopia for instance).



I've never heard the Dynaudio, but this seems reasonable, as he prefers the 007 to the 009.  Having both, I also prefer the 007 to the 009, but I can see why others might feel otherwise.  In any case, if you know how your preferences compare with his, you can use his impressions to help judge whether something will appeal to you, or not.

I will note that he tends to focus on tonal balance, whereas others might be more interested in detail, soundstage, or other factors, and for those folks his impressions might be less useful.


----------



## XLR8

ToroFiestaSol said:


> It really depends, the guy who asked the question has a lot of Grado headphones in his signature, so more than probably he'll prefer the 009 if he likes Grados.



Actually,  I prefer the less shouty sound of my lambda L300 to the Grado sound. 

Would like to add to my  stax collection hence my questions. 

The opinions and thoughts have been enormously appreciated. 

Looking for an analog sound via the stax headphones.  

Decisions decision....


----------



## thinker

Thaudiophile said:


> Better than 009/007?


yup,and even more details and musicality than 009 but not sure about resolution.Canorum needs break in time, after two weeks it's quite better.This is the best phone i have owned


----------



## JimL11

alcoholbob said:


> He uses a Dynaudio Confidence speakers system as well which is well known for it's smoothness (aka, rolled off details). In general it seems Bob Katz prefers smoother sound vs analytical (LCD-4 vs Utopia for instance).



I would also note that a number of reviewers have commented that recordings (which are generally made with microphones close to the performers) tend to have more highs than one hears in a live setting, so some degree of roll-off actually sounds closer to the live experience.  I suggest you Google "Down with Flat" by J Gordon Holt.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Yep, just take a look to the frequency response of some uber expensive legendary microphones (Telefunken 251, Sony C-800G, Neumann U47, etc)...anything but flat


----------



## ToroFiestaSol (Sep 8, 2017)

Oh, and Bob doesn't use Dynaudio Confidence speakers (10k to 20k), he uses Dynaudio M5P Evidence (+70k), big difference between both, he also EQed them and corrected the phase response with Acourate Convolver, and tweaked his (already wonderful sounding) room for the new Dynaudios, his system probably is one of the most accurate you can hear (B&K curve FR, phase and time coherent and room made for the speakers, that's far from rolled off or bright living room regular hifi system).


----------



## wink

Yep, a few cuts above a pair if LS50's in a dungeon.......


----------



## weasel1979 (Sep 8, 2017)

astrostar59 said:


> 5. MK2 2015 on is faster and more alive / accurate than the pre 2015 MK2, and IMO as good as the Mk1 maybe better



What serial number are we talking when you say "Mk2 2015" ? Thanks! I really wanna know!

I had both, Mk2 SZ3-10xxx and MK1 701xx, I liked the Mk1 much better. Age is no problem with Stax cans, come on guys, you know that. MK1 is audio heaven for me. I compared them, it's the balance, the calm, that was much better.

Plus: SR-007 do not sound veiled or boring to me at all. To me, the SR-009 sounds distant and boring. It  has lasersharp presentation, which I liked very much, but the sound was distant at the same time.
I owned all three and kept a very old SR-007 Mk1, which makes me happy. But yes, it is not completely neutral. It's a bit coloured. In an awesome way.


----------



## Trance_Gott

My SZ2-21xx is the best Stax headphone to date i had. SR009 is too bright and the MK1 is too smooth for my taste and don't have the energy of the SZ2. I don't like the port mod for my type of music metal and rock. For slower type of music the MK1 is maybe the better choice.
The only headphone comes close and is better in the bass department is the LCD4.


----------



## paradoxper

Get a T2.


----------



## florence

Hey guys,

Anyone heard/own sr-507 srm-006ts combo before? I need some advices whether I should get this system or not. 

Coming from paw gold, micro idsd black, hd600


----------



## Pahani

florence said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Anyone heard/own sr-507 srm-006ts combo before? I need some advices whether I should get this system or not.
> 
> Coming from paw gold, micro idsd black, hd600



Have not heard the 507 specifically. But my 207 + SRM252S compares very favorably against my HD600. Same generally Neutral sound, with more energy and speed, and MUUUUUCH lower bass extension. L700 + 353X steps it up substantially from there.

I do still love my HD600 and HD6XX, though I rarely use them anymore. They're "keepers" in my collection, even if mostly just as a sonic reference.


----------



## JimL11

florence said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Anyone heard/own sr-507 srm-006ts combo before? I need some advices whether I should get this system or not.
> 
> Coming from paw gold, micro idsd black, hd600



Haven't heard that particular combo, but have heard the SR-507 with SRM-T1 which is essentially the same circuit as the SRM-006.  The 507 is brighter/harsher than your HD600, but doesn't have that Sennheiser veil.  Reportedly the 207/307 is more neutral sounding, but I can't say from personal experience.


----------



## XLR8

I have done a mod to my L300 lambda's that has resulted in more bass and stax fart sound.

Woot, this is fantastic sound..just what i wanted from stax.. Very ☺ chappy

Thank you stax and everyone here..


----------



## musicday

XLR8 said:


> I have done a mod to my L300 lambda's that has resulted in more bass and stax fart sound.
> 
> Woot, this is fantastic sound..just what i wanted from stax.. Very ☺ chappy
> 
> Thank you stax and everyone here..


Be kind and share with everyone your modification


----------



## XLR8 (Sep 9, 2017)

musicday said:


> Be kind and share with everyone your modification



Check the L300 thread. It's a simple mod go to kitchen for the materials lol..

Listening to the lambda's now is extraordinary. The music flows,  bass pumps and detail detail detail...it's like i am in the music..

What more could anyone want?

Game over!


----------



## wink

A KGSSHV (Sanyo), a KGSSHV Carbon, 2 SR007's 2 SR009's and 2 HE60's for a starter.   Oh, and a YGGY......


----------



## statfi

XLR8 said:


> ...


Nice!  FWIW:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-l300-impressions-thread.813511/page-19


----------



## musicday

statfi said:


> Nice!  FWIW:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-l300-impressions-thread.813511/page-19


Thank you for posting the link brave man


----------



## astrostar59

JimL11 said:


> Definitely something to this.  Some systems promote long listening sessions, while others make you more fatigued as you listen for longer periods.



I agree 100%. I seem to have adopted this strategy without planning it. I have a pretty good 'aural memory' and on certain (small cluster) of well known tracks I can remember how they sounded on previous DACs or amp, pretty much.
Obviously a longer demo is really important as well. I also use various music types, so Rammstein (thrash/ heavy, Alex Morphe (well recorded dance/trance) Beyonce (female vocals with pitch, not Alison Crauss which is lower and sounds good on anything) and some Mozart piano Concerto. And listen to the upper level of 'normal' to really get to grips with how is sounds. I notice if I demo at middle levels, various HPs tend to sound a bit similar, even though they aren't. And of course, some amps start to show weaknesses on the 007 in particular at higher levels as those HPs are power hungry.

On DACs in particular, I have found I get quite excited in a short demo, but grow to hate them after a few more hours. For example the CH Precision C1 was great for 1/2 hour, very impressive dynamics and bass power, good extension in the treble. But after 4 hours I realised it was thin in the midrange to what I am used to, and had some sibilance in the treble on some material (Cranberries, Evanescence for example). That and the signature was plastic somehow, too processed. I do prefer NOS DACs for their timbre and midrange body. So yeah, longer the demo the better. if buying from a hifi store and the unit is north of 2K you should be able to ask to 'borrow' one for a day or so, so you know how it sounds in your own system, and your ears finally tell the trust.


----------



## XLR8

I have had a fantastic weekend enjoying my modded L300's. 

I figure the law of diminishing returns applies with the more expensive stax. 

So have found my audio nirvana and extremely satisfied with these electrostats. 

I never realised cling wrap would improve it quite substantially but it has. I can listen for hrs studying the different sound qualities of bass and midrange.  What's really icing on the cake is when solo music is played especially single instruments,  and the hiss in the background.  It's truly wonderful like  a magnifying glass these headphones. 

Food wrap + stax = winner.. 
 

Can't wait for the next stax weekend listening session.  Miss them already.


----------



## paradoxper

wink said:


> A KGSSHV (Sanyo), a KGSSHV Carbon, 2 SR007's 2 SR009's and 2 HE60's for a starter.   Oh, and a YGGY......



And a T2!


----------



## florence

Pahani said:


> Have not heard the 507 specifically. But my 207 + SRM252S compares very favorably against my HD600. Same generally Neutral sound, with more energy and speed, and MUUUUUCH lower bass extension. L700 + 353X steps it up substantially from there.
> 
> I do still love my HD600 and HD6XX, though I rarely use them anymore. They're "keepers" in my collection, even if mostly just as a sonic reference.





JimL11 said:


> Haven't heard that particular combo, but have heard the SR-507 with SRM-T1 which is essentially the same circuit as the SRM-006.  The 507 is brighter/harsher than your HD600, but doesn't have that Sennheiser veil.  Reportedly the 207/307 is more neutral sounding, but I can't say from personal experience.



Thank you both!


----------



## weasel1979

This thread changed..


----------



## musicday

weasel1979 said:


> This thread changed..


I do agree... let's talk more about 007 and 009.


----------



## Quixote79

florence said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Anyone heard/own sr-507 srm-006ts combo before? I need some advices whether I should get this system or not.
> 
> Coming from paw gold, micro idsd black, hd600


I also come interest in 507. like the he60 and find on other side spitzen says best lamda ever made


> As for the 507, I like them more and more which for me is the true mark of something great. Feed them a complex bass line and they do show their limitation but the lack of the "Lambda boom" is a very welcome thing. The midrange is more forward then a Omega but it is very similar to the HE60, with no etch or shouting. I've moved on to the SRM-1 Mk2 running balanced off the APL and it still sounds just lovely. I'm just letting Foobar run on random to try pretty much anything I can throw at them. I'm not quite ready to declare this the best ever Lambda but it is bloody close...


----------



## hpeter (Sep 10, 2017)

musicday said:


> Be kind and share with everyone your modification


this foam band has better seal
you may experiment with lenght of this adhesive foam (for sealing windows & doors)
i get better bass when bottom arc is not sealed (~70% seal)
i have bad feeling, that stax when has absolute min (l300) or very high (207) seal, it makes bass weak
you must find sweetspot in between 
fully reversible mod, just peel the band off

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-l300-impressions-thread.813511/page-8#post-13424289

*listening time , 90% l300
9% 207
1% 007 (uh oh!)*


----------



## XLR8

Hpeter,
Thanks for the link.

Prior to my mod,  I noticed variables in the sound based on the earpad closure. ie always adjusting to find sweet spot. 

Since doing the cling wrap the sound is always the same and is the sound I always wanted.

L300 very very good headphones.


----------



## musicday

Wondering if the L700 is harder to drive then 009. I am new to Stax headphones and i want to buy the last and use it at the beginning only with M-03 portable electrostatic amplifier and later get a Stax energizer. Both 007 and 009 were driven with more then sufficient by this amplifier.
Unfortunately I cannot test the L700 near me, but maybe it will be present at the Indulgence show in London September 29- October 1.
I like the way you can replace the earpads quicker then 009.


----------



## Pahani

musicday said:


> Wondering if the L700 is harder to drive then 009. I am new to Stax headphones and i want to buy the last and use it at the beginning only with M-03 portable electrostatic amplifier and later get a Stax energizer. Both 007 and 009 were driven with more then sufficient by this amplifier.
> Unfortunately I cannot test the L700 near me, but maybe it will be present at the Indulgence show in London September 29- October 1.
> I like the way you can replace the earpads quicker then 009.


I have no reference to 007/009. I'm sure my normal listening volume is likely lower than many, but at 2.5 out of 10 on 353X the volume of L700 is quite comfortable to my ears. Could go substantially lower if I wished.


----------



## jcn3

musicday said:


> Wondering if the L700 is harder to drive then 009. I am new to Stax headphones and i want to buy the last and use it at the beginning only with M-03 portable electrostatic amplifier and later get a Stax energizer. Both 007 and 009 were driven with more then sufficient by this amplifier.
> Unfortunately I cannot test the L700 near me, but maybe it will be present at the Indulgence show in London September 29- October 1.
> I like the way you can replace the earpads quicker then 009.



definitely easier to drive.


----------



## musicday

How many of you believe that Stax 010 headphones will be revealed at CES 2018?
:-


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

musicday said:


> How many of you believe that Stax 010 headphones will be revealed at CES 2018?
> :-



Mmm I don't think so, if I had to bet, probably in Autumn Tokyo Headphone Festival 2018, SR-009 was introduced in the 2010 edition of that festival


----------



## Pokemonn

hmm, it's 3 AM in Tokyo now. I can't sleep coz I can't stop listening Stax lol
So Addictive! lol, Stax rules!


----------



## musicday

Pokemonn said:


> hmm, it's 3 AM in Tokyo now. I can't sleep coz I can't stop listening Stax lol
> So Addictive! lol, Stax rules!


What are you listening right now and what Stax are you using?


----------



## Pokemonn (Sep 11, 2017)

right now Lenard Bernstein Il Divo "Tonight"(live recording) lol any track sounds super euphonic on my current stax setup.
Stax HPs are 007 and L700. my 009 is now at Stax HQ to repair breaking wire (it happened again this year! darn lol)


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

musicday said:


> Wondering if the L700 is harder to drive then 009. I am new to Stax headphones and i want to buy the last and use it at the beginning only with M-03 portable electrostatic amplifier and later get a Stax energizer. Both 007 and 009 were driven with more then sufficient by this amplifier.
> Unfortunately I cannot test the L700 near me, but maybe it will be present at the Indulgence show in London September 29- October 1.
> I like the way you can replace the earpads quicker then 009.


The L700, and the rest of the new lambdas can be driven very easily on any amp, and in the case of the 009, it is much easier to drive than the 009. Bother are way easier to drive than the 007. If your amp going into your energiser has noise, the L700 will pick it up way more than the 007 or 009 because of efficiency differences,


----------



## Pokemonn (Sep 11, 2017)

Ahhh my Stax rig started distorted sounding since it's 9 AM jobs and power consumption has started everywhere near my house....sad
I miss midnight and rain... I want Strormtank S 2500 but it's too expensive...sad lol

https://stromtank.com/s2500/


----------



## paradoxper

Won't do the 727 any favor. Better investment would be a Carbon.


----------



## Pokemonn

Yes I know. I will buy it from Sprizer. Thank you for your advice. paradoxper.


----------



## paradoxper

Spritzer is always an option, but there are other options, Pokemonn.


----------



## behwatch

Georgep's build is awesome.


----------



## manzano804

Hi all , i will be in Tokyo next week and want to try some Stax HPs , Could someone tell me in wich audio store i can  audition them ?
Thanks


----------



## snejk (Sep 12, 2017)

manzano804 said:


> Hi all , i will be in Tokyo next week and want to try some Stax HPs , Could someone tell me in wich audio store i can  audition them ?
> Thanks



I was in Tokyo this Easter and demo'ed Stax at Yodobashi in Akihabara. At the time and to my memory they had the SR009, SR007 as well as the LX00 models. Amp wise they had the SRM727, SRM007 and 353X.

I walked away with a 009 and a 727...

Edit:
Oh, also the E-earphones in Akihabara is worth a visit.


----------



## manzano804

snejk said:


> I was in Tokyo this Easter and demo'ed Stax at Yodobashi in Akihabara. At the time and to my memory they had the SR009, SR007 as well as the LX00 models. Amp wise they had the SRM727, SRM007 and 353X.
> 
> I walked away with a 009 and a 727...
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for the info !


----------



## snejk

manzano804 said:


> Thanks a lot for the info !



The downside of Yodobashi is that it is very noisy. Also, bring your own demo cd as the ones they had were not really to my taste.


----------



## manzano804 (Sep 12, 2017)

snejk said:


> The downside of Yodobashi is that it is very noisy. Also, bring your own demo cd as the ones they had were not really to my taste.


Can i connect an external drive through USB ?
Is the Yodobashi Camera store ?


----------



## snejk

manzano804 said:


> Can i connect an external drive through USB ?
> Is the Yodobashi Camera store ?



To my memory they were regular cd players lacking the possibility to connect a usb drive. Maybe if you ask them to change as they had a lot of other stuff there.

Yes it is the Yodobashi Camera store. It's a huge electronics retail chain with locations all over Tokyo but I think the Akihabara store has the largest collection of headphones. Tokyo residents might correct me as I only spent a week in Japan..


----------



## manzano804

snejk said:


> To my memory they were regular cd players lacking the possibility to connect a usb drive. Maybe if you ask them to change as they had a lot of other stuff there.
> 
> Yes it is the Yodobashi Camera store. It's a huge electronics retail chain with locations all over Tokyo but I think the Akihabara store has the largest collection of headphones. Tokyo residents might correct me as I only spent a week in Japan..


Perfect , thank you so much


----------



## jcn3

paradoxper said:


> Won't do the 727 any favor. Better investment would be a Carbon.



i'm looking for a new amp, too.  a carbon it a bit rich for me -- what are thoughts on spritzer's mini kgsshv for the L700s?


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Wait a few months, if you read the news column of Mjolnir Audio website, he is working on a budget KGSSHV with SMD parts.


----------



## Pokemonn

manzano804 said:


> Hi all , i will be in Tokyo next week and want to try some Stax HPs , Could someone tell me in wich audio store i can  audition them ?
> Thanks



I used to go Dynamic Audio 5555 in Akihabara.
but I recommend to not trust their setup: Their gear tends to sound very harsh since they located very crowded electric shopping town. so many heat pumps and inverters are running near theirs.
my home Stax setup sounds completely different from their stax setups.

http://www.dynamicaudio.jp (1st floor has headphone setups.)


----------



## paradoxper

jcn3 said:


> i'm looking for a new amp, too.  a carbon it a bit rich for me -- what are thoughts on spritzer's mini kgsshv for the L700s?



Get a KGSSHV from someone else.


----------



## Whitigir

paradoxper said:


> Get a KGSSHV from someone else.


Build it, using salvaged transformers and a plastic bucket for main chassis with some salvaged metal parts from the junk yard for "heatsink" and you got a super savaged-cheap-affordable Carbon ...just kidding.  Eventually you will find used affordable Kg amps as everyone will eventually upgrade


----------



## paradoxper

Even if Birgir gimped his builds further, the costs would be far too high.


----------



## Quixote79

paradoxper said:


> Even if Birgir gimped his builds further, the costs would be far too high.


why you think birgit build gimped?


----------



## jcn3

Whitigir said:


> Build it, using salvaged transformers and a plastic bucket for main chassis with some salvaged metal parts from the junk yard for "heatsink" and you got a super savaged-cheap-affordable Carbon ...just kidding.  Eventually you will find used affordable Kg amps as everyone will eventually upgrade



do you have a bill of materials for your build? particularly interested in sourcing of the chassis.  i could build by own, but don't have the machining capabilities.  without a pre-made chassis, i'm back to buying.


----------



## Whitigir

jcn3 said:


> do you have a bill of materials for your build? particularly interested in sourcing of the chassis.  i could build by own, but don't have the machining capabilities.  without a pre-made chassis, i'm back to buying.



Not with salvaged stuff, but if you are serious, I just pmed


----------



## oneguy

I've gone their recently and haven't noticed any harshness other their equipment. I've been as recently as July and thought they were really helpful. They have a T8000 if you haven't heard one. 

I usually go there for all my demoing curiosities and as a result of my most recent visit I bought a SR-L700 and SRM-007ta so I am now part of the Stax Mafia, lol! Anyways, Tommy at Dynamic Audio is really helpful if you do decide to go there.


----------



## Pokemonn

Yes, Tommy is the really good helpful guy though anyway.


----------



## hpeter

Pokemonn said:


> hmm, it's 3 AM in Tokyo now. I can't sleep coz I can't stop listening Stax lol
> So Addictive! lol, Stax rules!


...and that ´s just beginning, more troubles ahead
lol


----------



## hfhimeka

manzano804 said:


> Can i connect an external drive through USB ?
> Is the Yodobashi Camera store ?





snejk said:


> To my memory they were regular cd players lacking the possibility to connect a usb drive. Maybe if you ask them to change as they had a lot of other stuff there.
> 
> Yes it is the Yodobashi Camera store. It's a huge electronics retail chain with locations all over Tokyo but I think the Akihabara store has the largest collection of headphones. Tokyo residents might correct me as I only spent a week in Japan..




The Stax on demo at the Akihabara Yodobashi Camera store are all hooked up to Marantz SACD players.  They all have USB ports on the front.  I used to bring my own usb cable and audition via my phone's songs.  They used to have the same equipment on demo in Shinjuku.. but it looks like they stopped doing that there a few years ago.

Also, anyone who's been to the Akihabara Yodobashi--ever notice that the 007s on display for audition is SZ2-1001?


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

hfhimeka said:


> The Stax on demo at the Akihabara Yodobashi Camera store are all hooked up to Marantz SACD players.  They all have USB ports on the front.  I used to bring my own usb cable and audition via my phone's songs.  They used to have the same equipment on demo in Shinjuku.. but it looks like they stopped doing that there a few years ago.
> 
> Also, anyone who's been to the Akihabara Yodobashi--ever notice that the 007s on display for audition is SZ2-1001?



I actually have an HD800S that has an SN/#1000, but this is pretty damn close


----------



## hfhimeka

You actually got me thinking and bring up a good point.  Anyone ever seen 007MK2 with SZ2-0xxx or SZ3-0xxx?  I googled around and it seems like everything that shows up is always >1000.


----------



## justin w.

STAX starts their serial #s at 1000


----------



## Pokemonn (Oct 21, 2017)

What lol, what hifi gave oppo sonica dac 3stars....I noticed it today lolz.
weird its sound good with stax setup. weird weird....lol
edit. no Sonica dac is clearly smoother than 5-star mojo. weird...
edit2. no sonica is a tad too bright for my preference...sad...lol
edit3 now I want to try Accuphase DP950/DC950 combo...
edit4 i found SPDIF input doent sound bright at all. wow input diffrence is real.omg...


----------



## musicday

Are there any high quality  aftermarket leather earpads that will fit 009 without any modifications, like ZMF ones?


----------



## Leporello

Pokemonn said:


> What lol, what hifi gave oppo sonica dac 3stars....I noticed it today lolz.
> weird its sound good with stax setup. weird weird....lol
> edit. no Sonica dac is clearly smoother than 5-star mojo. weird...



What is genuinely funny is that in all probability the Sonica does not sound any different from a myriad of perfectly competent dacs on the market.


----------



## Pokemonn (Sep 22, 2017)

Leporello said:


> What is genuinely funny is that in all probability the Sonica does not sound any different from a myriad of perfectly competent dacs on the market.


if you want to hear differences of Dacs, id recommend to hook up to loudspeaker setups with CD players. it's more apparent with speakers...


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

General advice: read What-Hifi reviews backwards


----------



## hpeter

many hifi magazines are more about tech-fashion than HONEST truth.

_this is about pc games, but you get the idea.... :_


----------



## xantus (Sep 22, 2017)

oh stax-fi-er's, I call for your help!

today a terrible thing happened.  I was listening to my SRM-1/mk2 = SR-404 ..and suddenly a smooth volume drop over a few seconds happened... now the sound is dirty and farty bass with weak volume in both channels...the drop is pretty significant, 2'oclock is the new 11'oclock on the knob .
 ive narrowed it down to the phones or amp (as the sound is crap now on both my digital and analog rigs) , but i dont have other stax phones/amp to test... which one do you think is the culprit?   this rig is about 12 years old now..


----------



## JimL11

xantus said:


> oh stax-fi-er's, I call for your help!
> 
> today a terrible thing happened.  I was listening to my SRM-1/mk2 = SR-404 ..and suddenly a smooth volume drop over a few seconds happened... now the sound is dirty and farty bass with weak volume in both channels... ive narrowed it down to the phones or amp (as the sound is crap now on both my digital and analog rigs) , but i dont have other stax phones/amp to test... which one do you think is the culprit?   this rig is about 12 years old now..



I would check the amp first, and particularly the power supply, which is shared by both channels. Your amp is over 20 years old, if the electrolytic power supply caps have never been replaced, they could have gone bad.


----------



## kevin gilmore

if its in both channels, it has to be a power supply issue. possibly the bias supply, although failures there are really rare.


----------



## statfi

My main amp is a BHSE.  It replaced an *old* SRM-T1.  Can anybody direct me to instructions for 
1) maintenance of the T1, e.g., replacing caps
2) improving the T1?
Thanks!


----------



## statfi

A few days ago, I removed the inner and outer (metal) screens of the 009s.  The associated o-rings are still in place.  The inner, fabric, dust screen had been previously removed, so now, “with screens” means without the inner dust screen.  In both cases, the cups are held to my skull with 3 1”-wide elastic bands adjusted as tightly as I can enjoy over several hours of listening.  Call it “snugly”  !-)  Also, ~3oz of tungsten beads are glued to each ear cups, for additional damping (which whose efficacy has *not* been verified with ABA…testing).

The following comparisons were done in the space of 24 hours without touching the volume control, so I had good aural memory for this simple A-B test.  All statements are about the new screenless configuration wrt the old configuration with screens.  Subsequent listening over several days confirms the improvements heard in the A-B test.

Linda Ronstadt, Hasten Down the Wind, S2
Linda’s voice is even purer, more beautiful and more “immediate”: i.e., it “is like” a veil has been removed, and, of course, that is the physical case.  Nuances of her singing technique and her expressions are clearer.  The direct and ambient components of her voice are more easily distinguished.  Expanding the scope to the whole gestalt, including Linda, everything is “easier” and more relaxed *at the same time* that it is clearer, cleaner and more defined.  It is easier to understand words.  It is easier to hear the whole lines of background performers and how they play with and against the main line.  It is easier to hear the vocal characteristics and nuanced expressions of individual members of vocal backup ensemble.  Turning attention to the various accompanying instruments, the piano is “purer” and more beautiful, impact on drums and the effects of their components (like skins) are more apparent, giving a sound that is simultaneously more impactful and relaxed, metallic percussion is cleaner.

L’Histoire du Soldat, Reference Recordings, S1
Improved purity of timbres, clarity of technique, expression and instrumental “action” (e.g., skins, bows), more relaxed sound yet with greater impact, greater continuity and individuality of secondary and/or parallel main musical lines: pretty consistent with “Hasten Down the Wind”.  However, the first thing that hit me was in the gestalt domain: stereo.  I use the word “stereo” with emphasis on its root meaning, “solid”, in the sense of having a clear illusion of “solid” performers and their instruments in a real acoustic space.  The improvement of the stereo illusion on this recording done with minimalist miking is striking: without their screens the 009s do a better job of transporting you to the event recorded.


Manhattan Transfer, Extensions, Birdland
From the drop of the needle, aaah, and Wow: a gestalt that is simultaneously more relaxed and impactful.  Details would be repetitive of descriptions above.  Notable improvements are the richness and beauty of the piano, and delicacy of cymbal work.


Peter, Paul and Mary, Album 1700
Ditto.  Aspects I found particularly outstanding without the screens was “openness” of the soundscape, i.e. the “spaces” between performers (presumably in their own tracks) were bigger.  I *think* that some reviewers refer to what I was hearing as “blacker backgrounds”, which is a good description of the impression.  Also, counter intuitively; the bass line was easier to follow with more definite pitches. 


Wagner, Das Rheingold, London, Solti
Ditto.  The prelude is Wagner’s musical picture of the Rheine as it flows in the narrows around the Lorelei.  Tthe intrinsic sonic beauty of various choirs in the orchestra are more manifest.  Diction is clearer.  The Rheine maidens are more distinctive from one another.  Notable from the last of 6 sides was the purity of Wotan’s voice and the stereo stage presentation.


Beethoven’s 9th, Solti, 4th movement
Removing the screens increases both the power and clarity of the opening’s lower strings, improves the consistency of suspension of disbelief re. being present in a large hall with many performers, clarifies the individuality and interplay of musical lines, allows singers to sound less shouty and more beautiful, improves intelligibility of words even when there are multiple lines being sung.  I.e., ditto.

Realistically, all the improvements described above without the screens do not change the basic character of the 009s all that much.  After all, these are improvements to an already world class transducer. 

*I* cannot recommend that people repeat this at home, as it leaves the 009s much more open to serious damage. I have not experienced any shocks during this exercise.  I am glad that I acquired (at least) a (cheap) headphone stand, to keep the 009s safer when not in use. If anyone *knows* of any danger to the listener, please let me know, asap.


----------



## JimL11 (Sep 22, 2017)

statfi said:


> My main amp is a BHSE.  It replaced an *old* SRM-T1.  Can anybody direct me to instructions for
> 1) maintenance of the T1, e.g., replacing caps
> 2) improving the T1?
> Thanks!




I published an article in the July, 2017 issue of AudioXpress magazine on maintenance and modifications to improve the T1.  There is one modification which I inadvertently omitted from the article, which is to insert 4.7 megohm safety resistors in line between the bias supply on the circuit board and the front panel terminals for both the normal and pro bias terminals - I used Vishay VR37000004704JA100 resistors, available from Mouser.  You should be able to get a copy of the issue from the audioxpress.com website.



statfi said:


> A few days ago, I removed the inner and outer (metal) screens of the 009s.  The associated o-rings are still in place.  The inner, fabric, dust screen had been previously removed, so now, “with screens” means without the inner dust screen.
> 
> *I* cannot recommend that people repeat this at home, as it leaves the 009s much more open to serious damage. I have not experienced any shocks during this exercise.  I am glad that I acquired (at least) a (cheap) headphone stand, to keep the 009s safer when not in use. If anyone *knows* of any danger to the listener, please let me know, asap.



Maybe not a danger to the listener, but if you removed the inner dust screen (membrane) which protects the driver membrane, that is going to allow dust to adhere to the driver membrane, which is not a good thing.


----------



## xantus (Sep 22, 2017)

kevin gilmore said:


> if its in both channels, it has to be a power supply issue. possibly the bias supply, although failures there are really rare.



thanks for replying.. I do remember a quiet mechanical buzzing coming from some caps in the amp for a while now but it wasnt audible in the signal.. guess they finally went.  now putting my ear to the amp i hear more of a quiet tone than a buzzing coming from the electronics.

when the incedent happened.. it was only 2 minutes into my first song..and i noticed the volume seemed abnormally louder than usual from the start...  do you think that would give cause to look at the bias?


----------



## musicday

statfi said:


> A few days ago, I removed the inner and outer (metal) screens of the 009s.  The associated o-rings are still in place.  The inner, fabric, dust screen had been previously removed, so now, “with screens” means without the inner dust screen.  In both cases, the cups are held to my skull with 3 1”-wide elastic bands adjusted as tightly as I can enjoy over several hours of listening.  Call it “snugly”  !-)  Also, ~3oz of tungsten beads are glued to each ear cups, for additional damping (which whose efficacy has *not* been verified with ABA…testing).
> 
> The following comparisons were done in the space of 24 hours without touching the volume control, so I had good aural memory for this simple A-B test.  All statements are about the new screenless configuration wrt the old configuration with screens.  Subsequent listening over several days confirms the improvements heard in the A-B test.
> 
> ...


Statfi - how difficult would be to replace the headband on 009 with Mrspeakers TiNol one? That will look better,more comfortable, durable etc.
I am thinking of doing so later on.


----------



## Pokemonn

JimL11 said:


> I published an article in the July, 2017 issue of AudioXpress magazine on maintenance and modifications to improve the T1.  There is one modification which I inadvertently omitted from the article, which is to insert 4.7 megohm safety resistors in line between the bias supply on the circuit board and the front panel terminals for both the normal and pro bias terminals - I used Vishay VR37000004704JA100 resistors, available from Mouser.  You should be able to get a copy of the issue from the audioxpress.com website.



also, JimL11's article contains cap upgrade info FYI.


----------



## statfi

WANTED--PARTNER IN CRIME
I typically use ABAB... tests to verify the effects of changes to my listening system.  With the rather extensive modifications to my 009s, I have lost that ability.  So, if any other owners of 009s would like to actually hear what I have actually achieved, I would love to have you over to my place in Northern California.  That way I will be able to compare your stock 009s to my Franken009s, and you _vice versa_.  I have a BHSE, and good (essentially immovable) phono system.  BYOD(AC) appropriate.  Send me PM to arrange.


----------



## statfi

musicday said:


> Statfi - how difficult would be to replace the headband on 009 with Mrspeakers TiNol one? That will look better,more comfortable, durable etc.
> I am thinking of doing so later on.


You're way ahead of me, and prompted me to look at MrSpeakers web site.  It is amazing to me how much modification of their cans they offer commercially.  It would be nice if Stax did that.  I am doing my tests on the cheap with limited fabrication facilities at my disposal.  They could do a world class job, as they are already doing with other aspects of their products.  

I do not know how difficult it would be to re-fit the headbands.  Feel free to PM me if you have any questions on the Stax side.  

I do recommend that you try rubber bands before disassembling your 009s, to see if you hear the difference, like the difference, and see what sort of force suits your tastes.  If you do do this, please report back!  Again, rubber bands are cheap, easy and available!

I have found that I can do quick tests of whether or not more clamping force makes a difference by grasping the ear cups on the edges, so my hand cannot reflect energy back into the ear cups, and pressing against my head.  You can use this for spot checks *after* you mount the TiNol one.

I previously gave measurements of how much force I was using: page-819 #post-13578161: 2lbs vs. 5.9lbs, stock.  You could, as a first step, before you disassemble the MrSpeakers, measure their clamping force, as I did for the 009s.  Pictures of my setup below.  Based on such measurements, you can decide if their increase in force is worth the effort of the swap.

I have also found that I want to control the force distribution around the circumference of the cups: greater force where the cups are against my hard skull (typically high and back) and less where they are against softer portions of my head (low and forward).  My straps allow this level of control, and I would want it for any system that provides enough clamping force to give improved sound quality.

Disclaimers:  1) I care not one whit what I look like in my headphones.  2) I do not now have a good method to empirically verify how much increased clamping force improves sound quality with the screens removed: I *suspect* that it does, but do not know.


----------



## statfi

How I measured force with a thin electronic scale and box to roughly give my head dimensions.


----------



## statfi

Pokemonn said:


> also, JimL11's article contains cap upgrade info FYI.


Thanks to JimL11 and Pokemonn!  I am waiting for the AudioXpress subscription to go through.


----------



## JimL11

statfi said:


> Disclaimers:  1) I care not one whit what I look like in my headphones..



Obviously.


----------



## edstrelow

statfi said:


> A few days ago, I removed the inner and outer (metal) screens of the 009s.  The associated o-rings are still in place.  The inner, fabric, dust screen had been previously removed, so now, “with screens” means without the inner dust screen.  In both cases, the cups are held to my skull with 3 1”-wide elastic bands adjusted as tightly as I can enjoy over several hours of listening.  Call it “snugly”  !-)  Also, ~3oz of tungsten beads are glued to each ear cups, for additional damping (which whose efficacy has *not* been verified with ABA…testing).
> 
> The following comparisons were done in the space of 24 hours without touching the volume control, so I had good aural memory for this simple A-B test.  All statements are about the new screenless configuration wrt the old configuration with screens.  Subsequent listening over several days confirms the improvements heard in the A-B test.
> 
> ...



You are doing several things together so it is a little unclear what exactly is contributing to the sonic improvements you hear.  Clamping the phones would presumably give you a better seal around the ears.  I am however curious about your reference to tungsten beads  used for damping.  I have never heard of this material as having any damping properties, but my take on this issue is that just about anything which adds mass to a headphone or speaker will dampen the vibrations in the body of the headphone.  However,  the best ones are able to get rid of this mechanical energy by converting it to heat. 

Several companies are now doing this type of damping in both speakers and headphones, the earliest was probably Sennheiser which uses  something it called a "space age material" in the headband for the HD 800.  I would imagine they are still doing this in their TOL electrostatic. But several other companies are adding mechanical damping (not to be confused with felt and other materials used to dampen the back wave from speakers).  Generally they refer to visco-elastics and polymers although Grado seems to have come up with a polycarbonate plastic which serves this role in their new E-series.  The most readily available visco-elastic polymer is sorbothane.   I have had very good results with various grades of dense (70 duro) self-stick sorb, the best results with 1/2 inch but you can not get this in self-stick and getting the right glue is an issue.  You might want to check the thread I started in DYI, especially the last dozen or so pages.  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dam...s-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials.744839/


----------



## statfi

edstrelow said:


> You are doing several things together so it is a little unclear what exactly is contributing to the sonic improvements you hear.  Clamping the phones would presumably give you a better seal around the ears.  I am however curious about your reference to tungsten beads  used for damping.  I have never heard of this material as having any damping properties, but my take on this issue is that just about anything which adds mass to a headphone or speaker will dampen the vibrations in the body of the headphone.  However,  the best ones are able to get rid of this mechanical energy by converting it to heat.



Thanks for the cogent reply!  Thanks for the referral to "Damping..."!  It looks like a gold mine, but I will need time to digest.

Some of my improvements can be loosely analyzed in terms of the procedure I have reported: increasing clamping, going to elastic bands, removing the screens.  Regarding clamping, I had unconsciously ruled "sealing" out because farts indicate that the seal is essentially always rather good.  My hypothesis is that tighter clamping allows acoustic energy in the cups to drain off into your skull.  I *hope* to some day get the ambition and transducers I would need to verify this...  As I mentioned, I myself am not clear on the efficacy of the W beads, and will revisit that, eventually.

Given you started a thread on "Damiping..." I need to back pedal a little on my usage.  In my mind, simply adding mass to the cup should reduce their motion (which is inherently undesirable) in response to the "equal and opposite" force of driving the diaphragm, which I should not have called "damping".  However, I used thickish layers of super-glue type gel as adhesive, so I *suspect* that there is a high-compliance, acoustically lossy layer between the cups and the heavy beads, which could be doing real damping (i.e., conversion to heat).  I used "damping" to loosely cover both effects.  To address your point: I do *not* think that there is substantial damping happening within the W.  Your Damping thread talks a lot about using Sorbothane.  I will definitely pursue that, and report back...


----------



## statfi

JimL11 said:


> Obviously.


 
Oh, and that reasonable response reminded me of another disclaimer: 3) Stax fart's are more likely with higher clamping forces, and do not bother me if they do not occur when I am sitting rather stationary for serious listening.  With my elastic bands, if the cups ride too far down towards my neck, farts can happen when I just stretch my neck, which I do routinely, when listening.  I have learned to insure that the cups are riding far enough up on my skull to prevent farts when I just stretch my neck.


----------



## xantus

does anyone want to do a repair service on my amp?  i'll pay well ;D


----------



## mem916

I recently bought a pair of SR-007's and a Woo Audio GES.  I will be writing up my impressions in the next week or so.


----------



## mem916

Should I post it here, or create an "article".  I've been on this site for years but haven't posted anything.


----------



## musicday

mem916 said:


> Should I post it here, or create an "article".  I've been on this site for years but haven't posted anything.


Yes write it here and take lots of photos.
And congratulations, my 009 are arriving today


----------



## mem916

musicday said:


> Yes write it here and take lots of photos.
> And congratulations, my 009 are arriving today



Nice!  I thought about the 009s but decided they were overkill for my application. It is primarily for listening at work and for monitoring LP “needle drops”. I have an astell & kern AK300 with a lot of 24/96 recording of my LPs on it.


----------



## musicday (Sep 27, 2017)

Finally my 009 are here. Wonderful combination with the M03 and Tera Player. I am just getting used to the  huge amount of details and deep sweet bass.Now i need to look for a proper Stax amplifier to start with


----------



## mem916

Beautiful!   I am very happy with my Woo Audio GES.  I do suggest you put the best tubes you can get in them.  I went with a vintage Telefunken 12AX7 and TungSol 6S4A.   Supposedly the WES is much better (it ought to be!).  I suggest vintage Mullard EL34s in that one or try vintage MO  (aka Gold Lion) KT77s.   Avoid Russian and Chinese re-issues.  IMO you might as well throw your money away.


----------



## XLR8

Merry Xmas. 
Lovely looking stax..


----------



## musicday (Sep 27, 2017)

XLR8 said:


> Merry Xmas.
> Lovely looking stax..


Thank you, is more like a birthday present for next week.


----------



## paradoxper

For sure, anything will be better than what you're using currently; the Carbon CC isn't a bad shot to take. 
Don't forget your source either.


----------



## musicday

Put it this way,i saw Black Hawk down last night on my Asus windows laptop connected to M03 and 009. I was very impressed that even with this basic combination i did hear lots of micro details and everything sounded cinema like. I am dreaming how much nicer will be to watch a movie with a proper electrostatic amplifier, and a DAC.And the comfort is great for long periods of time.
Sorry about my excitement, but i am new to electrostatic headphones and i wanted to have the SR-009 for many years


----------



## knopi

musicday I remember you in Westone thread one year back and now you have SR009 wow just headfi . I still have distance from electrostatic system, reason you need other separate high quality amp which is not quite achievable for most but when I read a few pages back about Phenomenon Canorum that it seems to be similar to HE90 it keep my interest again as available option, definitely have interest to hear it. Anyway wish you long happy years with 009.


----------



## musicday

Thank you Knopi, i remember you toothank you for the nice words.
Well 009 is something that I really wanted for a long time, and as i don't drink nor smoke or go to clubs, i decided to treat myself and treated well i was. SR-009 is indeed a very good headphone and in the future i am hoping to own a proper amplifier to take it to a whole new level.


----------



## kylev

musicday said:


> Thank you Knopi, i remember you toothank you for the nice words.
> Well 009 is something that I really wanted for a long time, and as i don't drink nor smoke or go to clubs, i decided to treat myself and treated well i was. SR-009 is indeed a very good headphone and in the future i am hoping to own a proper amplifier to take it to a whole new level.


009 is very nice and neutral sounding, but somehow, it is a bit bright to my liking, likelihood might go for SR-007 instead, plans to pair it with SRM-717 - especially since I am still using Tidal streaming (lossless) mainly, not really very good source quality compare to CDs or other better sources.


----------



## musicday

What will it be the best amplifier for 009 but doesn't use valves? There doesn't seem to be lots of choices out there.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

KGSSHV Carbon


----------



## Tinkerer

Theoretically? Circlotron. Realistically? KGSSHV Carbon.


----------



## musicday

ToroFiestaSol said:


> KGSSHV Carbon


Do you happen to know all the technical specifications? I can't find them on the website.
Such as : weight, size, power consumption, THD, etc. Thank you.


----------



## JimL11

musicday said:


> Do you happen to know all the technical specifications? I can't find them on the website.
> Such as : weight, size, power consumption, THD, etc. Thank you.



There are no published technical specifications because this is not a commercial amplifier, so there is no "standard" KGSS Carbon.


----------



## SeaWo|f

JimL11 said:


> There are no published technical specifications because this is not a commercial amplifier, so there is no "standard" KGSS Carbon.



I think spitzer would be willing to give a reasonable degree of basic information on the ones he has in stock. Try email or perhaps ask/pm on the ~other~ forum. 

But yea JimL11 is right, these are bespoke items from individual builders.


----------



## TheAttorney (Sep 27, 2017)

Life after Stax?  The final round (ding ding) of my Downsizing experiment…

As an introduction, I suggest you read the previous round here. Which got me to the point of choosing the HEK V2 as a worthy Dynamics alternative to my beloved Electrostatics rig of many years, for when I didn't have the time to fire up the main rig. So, with my Objective (b) successfully realised, the next step was  the more challenging Objective (a) to see if the HEK was actually good enough to completely replace my Electrostatics rig and so achieve my Downsizing objective.

I could tell straight away that, out of the box, the HEK wasn't going to achieve Objective (a). But because I've had several years to get used to the Stax sound, I deliberately switched off my BHSE/009 for ages whilst I got used to the HEK's presentation - with a few tweaks made along the way.  At the end of a few months, I was pleased to see that my HEK had not fallen apart in any way - this had been a worry based on the many detrimental reports on past models quality control issues. On the SQ front, I've found that the HEK is highly transparent - in that it is very sensitive to upstream changes. Which means that I didn't always like what I heard, but the plus side is that it scaled up very quickly with upstream improvements. More of this later, but for now let's cut to the winner of this particular fight. With all tweaks in place, this result is based purely on SQ, irrespective of cost, aesthetics, build or practicality.

And the winner  is…

Yep, you've guessed it, the fight went the full distance, with the judges unable to come to a unanimous decision. Now, it may have been close overall, but the two presentations were quite different, with many swings and roundabouts. Most things the SR-009 did were so right. You already know the usual electrostatics strengths - that unforced naturalness that makes female vocals sound so lifelike. This also applying to just about any acoustic recording, and many electronic ones as well. And I've still yet to hear a better bass quality (rather than quantity) from any other headphone. And then there's the speed, and the refined treble, and and so on….

But the HEK V2 countered with a combination 1-2 punch of key strengths:

Firstly, a presence and immediacy that gave a feeling of direct connection with the recording. A significant part of this is DAVE's direct drive. I've heard some expensive amps driving the HEK,  and all of them add a slight thickening smoothness to the sound. Now, not everyone gets on with DAVE, and I can understand that, as I've had my own occasional disagreement with him in the past,  but DAVE directly driving HEK V2 is a perfect match - partly because of that directness  and particularly when combined  with the next key strength:

Secondly,  the HEK has a fantastic, spacious soundstage, with images popping out in a way that makes me forget I'm listening to headphones. Initially, I found its soundstage too wide, with rather diffuse central images, and not much depth. Enter DAVE's cross-feed function, which works wonders to sharpen up the images and also increase depth perception, at the expense of width and some euphonic "airiness". This is recording dependent, and each of DAVE's 3 CF settings have their merits, with CF=2 remaining my default setting for the HEK.

Below are the 4 conditions that I feel are fundamental to HEK V2's staying the full distance in this fight. If any of these are not met, then all bets are off as to how my decision may have gone:


Must be directly driven by DAVE
Must use DAVE's cross-feed function
Must have EQ applied to tame a tonal thinness roughly in the 7khz-10khz region (I use Roon's EQ, centred around 8.3khz, plus some bass correction to balance the cross-feed, still experimenting)
Must replace the stock cable (I use Toxic's Silver Widow)
Of course, the source also needs to be up to scratch, but that's a whole other story and still WIP. This exercise has reinforced my view that one doesn't listen to just headphones, one listens to the synergy of the whole system, and anything out of step can completely  skew my opinion of the headphones. Now, I'm not saying that others can't come up with their own great HEK V2-based systems, but I can only comment on my own experience.

Returning to the BHSE/009 after a long absence was surprising. I've always considered the 009 to be a touch upper-mid forward, a touch bass light. Not a big deal for me because its strengths far outweighed these correctable minor weaknesses. Overall I considered the BHSE/009 to have great speed, clarity and transparency, and combining naturalness with more "balls" than lesser electrostatics systems. And, up to this point, also an above average soundstage.But in this HEK comparison, the 009 didn't seem that tonally "hot" anymore, rather smooth actually. And much easier going (particularly when partnered with vintage tubes): Yes the 009 responded to some EQ, but it didn't matter much as it sounded good either way. Yes it responded to cross-feed, but it didn't matter much as it sounded good either way. The directly driven HEK was much fussier in getting to its peak sound, but with all 4 conditions in place, the resulting uncluttered 3-dimensional sound stage gave me just as good a musical "hit" as the faster, more detailed and refined 009 .

In conclusion, I think I've now achieved my downsizing objective: A compact, easily transportable rig that sounds at least as good as a full sized rig. The HEK V2 didn't knock out the 009, but it was at least in the same ballpark (as well as being great at mixing metaphors). I could quite happily keep both systems, but downsizing only works if I actually downsize. So, with much regret, I'm putting up all my electrostatics gear for sale. Absolutely all of it, including BHSE, SR-009, (SR-007 already gone), extension cable, SRM-007t, new and vintage tubes, Herbie dampers, and audiophile fuses. In the For Sales section. Here. Now. Phew!


----------



## paulchiu

Thanks for sharing.  Unlike homes and cars. Many of us have collected too many elite headphones and amplifiers.  Kudos on your efforts.
In the last few years, I have used my Stax less also, as it really is much easier to enjoy dynamic headphones at home or away.
Yes, there is now a portable Shure KSE1500, but that is no where as good as the Stax 007 or 009.
Again, congrats

paul




TheAttorney said:


> Life after Stax?  The final round (ding ding) of my Downsizing experiment…
> 
> As an introduction, I suggest you read the previous round here [link to follow]. Which got me to the point of choosing the HEK V2 as a worthy Dynamics alternative to my beloved Electrostatics rig of many years, for when I didn't have the time to fire up the main rig. So, with my Objective (b) successfully realised, the next step was  the more challenging Objective (a) to see if the HEK was actually good enough to completely replace my Electrostatics rig and so achieve my Downsizing objective.
> 
> ...


----------



## Olschl

paulchiu said:


> Thanks for sharing.  Unlike homes and cars. Many of us have collected too many elite headphones and amplifiers.  Kudos on your efforts.
> In the last few years, I have used my Stax less also, as it really is much easier to enjoy dynamic headphones at home or away.
> Yes, there is now a portable Shure KSE1500, but that is no where as good as the Stax 007 or 009.
> Again, congrats
> ...



How do the planars compare? I've always wanted to audition the Oppo PM-3; but there's no way around here.


----------



## paulchiu

Planar magnetic headphones are all over the map, some like the Audeze LCD3 and LCD4, Hifiman HE1000s, MrSpeakers Ether and OPPO PM1 make you miss the electrostatics less when paired with good sources.
The OPPO PM3 are very comfortable Planars that anyone can try out as their first in this class of headphones.
I am not sure about what sources or gear you have, so cannot recommend if PM3 works for you.

You can order on from say Amazon https://goo.gl/o9SXfW, if you don't like them return it for a refund.

paul



Olschl said:


> How do the planars compare? I've always wanted to audition the Oppo PM-3; but there's no way around here.


----------



## auricgoldfinger

@TheAttorney Roon expresses crossfeed in terms of Cut Frequency (Hz) and Feed Level (dB).  Is there a way for you to equate DAVE's settings in those terms?


----------



## XLR8

Did you try the Susvara?


----------



## musicday (Sep 27, 2017)

Once you enter the electrostatic world, especially the high end models is hard to leave. Is great to have other headphones to use for different applications,but their sound can't compare with Stax IMHO.


----------



## wink

TheAttorney said:


> Life after Stax?  The final round (ding ding) of my Downsizing experiment…
> 
> As an introduction, I suggest you read the previous round here. Which got me to the point of choosing the HEK V2 as a worthy Dynamics alternative to my beloved Electrostatics rig of many years, for when I didn't have the time to fire up the main rig. So, with my Objective (b) successfully realised, the next step was  the more challenging Objective (a) to see if the HEK was actually good enough to completely replace my Electrostatics rig and so achieve my Downsizing objective.
> 
> ...


You're gonna make some Head-Fiers very happy with your decision. Especially those who buy your gear.


----------



## hpeter

xantus said:


> oh stax-fi-er's, I call for your help!
> 
> today a terrible thing happened.  I was listening to my SRM-1/mk2 = SR-404 ..and suddenly a smooth volume drop over a few seconds happened... now the sound is dirty and farty bass with weak volume in both channels...the drop is pretty significant, 2'oclock is the new 11'oclock on the knob .
> ive narrowed it down to the phones or amp (as the sound is crap now on both my digital and analog rigs) , but i dont have other stax phones/amp to test... which one do you think is the culprit?   this rig is about 12 years old now..


something broken in amp stages, but if it was bias, you would not hear much.
but you can test it- put same volume and listen for distortion.
if sounds clear , but quiet - it can be very low bias voltage. 
you should measure approx 580V bias -   before the high value resistors... measuring directly at socket, you get much less due to these huge resistors...

with my custom tube amp, i can hear just weak treble, if i shutdown the bias. (quite higher than normal volume)


----------



## hpeter

musicday said:


> Once you enter the electrostatic world, especially the high end models is hard to leave. Is great to have other headphones to use for different applications,but their sound can't compare with Stax IMHO.


and still some people talks about selling stax and going back to magnets..
i think they´re insane.. what kind of hidden agenda is this ??? traitors, blasphemy !

_i use my old dt990 just for pc gaming (poor boy´s endgame), well i will not wear my tubes and stats for GAMING...!!!_


----------



## musicday

hpeter said:


> and still some people talks about selling stax and going back to magnets..
> i think they´re insane.. what kind of hidden agenda is this ??? traitors, blasphemy !
> 
> _i use my old dt990 just for pc gaming (poor boy´s endgame), well i will not wear my tubes and stats for GAMING...!!!_


If you can Stax is worth using on anything from music, movies and games if that's your thing, just my humble opinion.
The sound is too good to be reserved only for critical listening.


----------



## XLR8

The bass on my stax is so well defined, and the other frequencies so well balanced.

Going back to magnets, I frequently ask myself... what am I thinking?


----------



## bearwarrior

I have Stax SR-207 to sell.

If interested, check here. Thanks!


----------



## Tinkerer

Just a heads up that's kind of high for just a pair of 207's even though they're basically mint. You can get ones in slightly less fine shape with the Xh or the 252S for almost half that. Not that you won't sell it, but above $300, you'll probably be sitting on it awhile.


----------



## bearwarrior

Tinkerer said:


> Just a heads up that's kind of high for just a pair of 207's even though they're basically mint. You can get ones in slightly less fine shape with the Xh or the 252S for almost half that. Not that you won't sell it, but above $300, you'll probably be sitting on it awhile.



Thanks for the heads up. But it is never used, not mint. Hopefully, someone can take this "babe".


----------



## knopi (Sep 29, 2017)

hpeter said:


> and still some people talks about selling stax and going back to magnets..
> i think they´re insane.. what kind of hidden agenda is this ??? traitors, blasphemy !



I think it depends on taste on music, quality of recording etc. which everybody have different. It is like taste on quality food somebody have better (knows origin of foodstuffs, eats quality fats, no sugar etc.) and somebody worse (bad quality of food, sugar etc.).
For example from my experiences I heard almost everything on (visits, meets) I also prefer planars becouse for my music usings it is more universal and simpler.
But you know if you not live long time with top electrostatic system and top planar system at home than you can not judge it, you need to spent long time to know it, it is best what we can do and I have never owned top electrostatic system at home so my prefer means nothing it is just actual experience.


----------



## arnaud

This may come as a surprise to many, starting with me actually but I've come to the reason that my home audio rig is a bit over the top for how much use I make of it. I've been tracking hours of use on all the tubes I got for the BHSE since day one so I know exactly how frequently I've been using it and it's just not living up to the amount of money I've invested.

The main issue I have with the BHSE is that, being a tube amp, it's best to leave it on for say 30 min before starting listening and it requires me to be at the desk with it sits. Truth is, only time I have these days is half an hour in bed before sleeping and I am typically catching up on French TV or watching a movie instead of listening to music.

I've thus decided to let me home rig go and downgrade to something a bit more convenient. I am not quite over with stats world and thinking to go L700 / small footprint amp next, we'll see. 

I am about to put my BHSE and SR009 up for sale (and eventually the various EL34 quads I've sourced over the past few years for it), you'll see that in my signature. For the amp, I'd much rather sell it locally so it will also go up on Yahoo auctions (it's a 100V unit).

cheers,
arnaud


----------



## musicday

arnaud said:


> This may come as a surprise to many, starting with me actually but I've come to the reason that my home audio rig is a bit over the top for how much use I make of it. I've been tracking hours of use on all the tubes I got for the BHSE since day one so I know exactly how frequently I've been using it and it's just not living up to the amount of money I've invested.
> 
> The main issue I have with the BHSE is that, being a tube amp, it's best to leave it on for say 30 min before starting listening and it requires me to be at the desk with it sits. Truth is, only time I have these days is half an hour in bed before sleeping and I am typically catching up on French TV or watching a movie instead of listening to music.
> 
> ...


That's serious stuff you got right there. Seen the price of RK50 alone 
Best wishes with your sale.


----------



## astrostar59 (Sep 30, 2017)

arnaud said:


> This may come as a surprise to many, starting with me actually but I've come to the reason that my home audio rig is a bit over the top for how much use I make of it. I've been tracking hours of use on all the tubes I got for the BHSE since day one so I know exactly how frequently I've been using it and it's just not living up to the amount of money I've invested.
> 
> The main issue I have with the BHSE is that, being a tube amp, it's best to leave it on for say 30 min before starting listening and it requires me to be at the desk with it sits. Truth is, only time I have these days is half an hour in bed before sleeping and I am typically catching up on French TV or watching a movie instead of listening to music.
> 
> ...



Wow, I would be really sorry if you let your main rig go. If it is a tube thing, the Carbon is as good IMO as the BHSE, different but as good. And I can leave it on all day no worries. I jump on it anytime then. I also leave my tubed DAC on 24/7 as well, but that unlike the BHSE uses small pre-amp tubes and they are cheap to buy. I must say I ordered the BHSE twice and cancelled it for the tube reasons you mention and not being able to leave it on. My desk is my workstation for my job, as well as my system, so I can use it pretty much anytime. I have speakers are well and probably use them twice as much, maybe more. But the 009 does something I like, so I can't give it up. And not for the money it would release anyway. A planar setup would probably need a good tube amp and 3-4K phones anyway, and to get a better level, maybe, more than likely maybe not. Yeah, you can power planers of more SS amps, but the cost is about the same now to get near the level you are at.

Anyway, good luck Arnaud, I hope you don't regret it later?


----------



## nepherte

arnaud said:


> This may come as a surprise to many, starting with me actually but I've come to the reason that my home audio rig is a bit over the top for how much use I make of it. I've been tracking hours of use on all the tubes I got for the BHSE since day one so I know exactly how frequently I've been using it and it's just not living up to the amount of money I've invested.
> 
> The main issue I have with the BHSE is that, being a tube amp, it's best to leave it on for say 30 min before starting listening and it requires me to be at the desk with it sits. Truth is, only time I have these days is half an hour in bed before sleeping and I am typically catching up on French TV or watching a movie instead of listening to music.
> 
> ...


Now now now... Don't make me grow a conscience. I've got a BHSE + SR009 + Totaldac idling for over 2 months now (and counting). I've moved from Belgium to Singapore but have yet to ship it over. All joking aside, wish you all the best in your future audio endeavors. You're the one who led me to this particular setup (you had exactly the same one), and this is the only setup I've considered my end game.


----------



## arnaud

Thanks for the comments . I just took pictures of the SR-009 this morning and I am already regretting selling it, it's such a beautiful piece of gear, I haven't got bored by the looks even after 6 years or so of ownership. Now that I've heard how ot sings with proper amplification, I think it would just be torture to get back to a lesser amp with these phones so better to let it go...

Cheers,
Arnaud


----------



## Jones Bob

A beautiful amp. Love that shade of blue. Going to give the new owner a lot of music enjoyment. 

Totally understand your downsizing. Also feel your pain. 

Looking forward to where your audio journey takes you next.


----------



## seaice

arnaud said:


> I've thus decided to let me home rig go and downgrade to something a bit more convenient. I am not quite over with stats world and thinking to go L700 / small footprint amp next, we'll see.



L700 is a nice choice but you need a good chain (DAC+AMP) for them as well. What about keeping your 009 and change your amp? My KGSSHV Carbon drives 009, 007 and L700 beautifully.


----------



## nvfan

arnaud said:


> This may come as a surprise to many, starting with me actually but I've come to the reason that my home audio rig is a bit over the top for how much use I make of it. I've been tracking hours of use on all the tubes I got for the BHSE since day one so I know exactly how frequently I've been using it and it's just not living up to the amount of money I've invested.
> 
> The main issue I have with the BHSE is that, being a tube amp, it's best to leave it on for say 30 min before starting listening and it requires me to be at the desk with it sits. Truth is, only time I have these days is half an hour in bed before sleeping and I am typically catching up on French TV or watching a movie instead of listening to music.
> 
> ...



Have you ever considered switching to a solid state amp like a KGSSHV? You could easily run plugins which add even-order harmonics in order to simulate that tube sound.


----------



## nepherte

astrostar59 said:


> Wow, I would be really sorry if you let your main rig go. If it is a tube thing, the Carbon is as good IMO as the BHSE, different but as good. And I can leave it on all day no worries. I jump on it anytime then. I also leave my tubed DAC on 24/7 as well, but that unlike the BHSE uses small pre-amp tubes and they are cheap to buy. I must say I ordered the BHSE twice and cancelled it for the tube reasons you mention and not being able to leave it on. My desk is my workstation for my job, as well as my system, so I can use it pretty much anytime. I have speakers are well and probably use them twice as much, maybe more. But the 009 does something I like, so I can't give it up. And not for the money it would release anyway. A planar setup would probably need a good tube amp and 3-4K phones anyway, and to get a better level, maybe, more than likely maybe not. Yeah, you can power planers of more SS amps, but the cost is about the same now to get near the level you are at.
> 
> Anyway, good luck Arnaud, I hope you don't regret it later?



I think you missed the point. He likes the BHSE. It’s not about the tubes or the fact you cannot leave it on. It’s about the fact he doesn’t have enough time to listen to the amp and it is too expensive for the little time he does listen.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck

is there anyone who has done the port mod for the SR007 MK2.5? If so, do you have measurements? Im curious how the port mod measures vs the original MK1s on paper


----------



## astrostar59 (Oct 1, 2017)

nepherte said:


> I think you missed the point. He likes the BHSE. It’s not about the tubes or the fact you cannot leave it on. It’s about the fact he doesn’t have enough time to listen to the amp and it is too expensive for the little time he does listen.



*The main issue I have with the BHSE is that, being a tube amp, it's best to leave it on for say 30 min before starting listening and it requires me to be at the desk with it sits.
*
But joking aside here, I know many folk who have a classic car and use it 2 weeks a year, with a street value of over 150K. And others with Mobile Homes used 4 weeks a year and parked outside their house. I know someone who has a whole house full of furniture in storage for years at a cost of 100 USD per month.

It is all down to the owner to make such choices. My issue with speakers is I can't use them at any decent volume in the evening when I tend to enjoy music. It is a selfish hobby you could say as well, as only one listener at a time (if you have done HP). But the enormous boom in home computers and streaming IMO has increased the sale of HPs and also the amount of high end models that area available to us.

But I am sad anyway seeing anyone decide to sell their high end system. Don't know why, just how I think. I hope Arnaud can continue to post his excellent content, which I have enjoyed over the years on here. Maybe you will come back to a high end HP later Anaud? I hope so, but regardless top respect for all your positive contributions on here.


----------



## JimL11

alcoholbob said:


> Have you ever considered switching to a solid state amp like a KGSSHV? You could easily run plugins which add even-order harmonics in order to simulate that tube sound.



I don't know that second order HD is the reason for "tube sound."  In fact the BHSE has very low distortion - 0.003% at 100 VRMS output is the specification.  Assuming that that is second harmonic distortion, it should be inaudible.  In any case, it seems that the primary reason Arnaud is selling is lack of time, not concerns about having to have the amp on for an extra 30 minutes.  And incidentally, I'm not sure why he says he needs to be there for the warm-up.  Properly designed tube electronics should be close to as reliable as solid state.  Back in the day, some tube instrumentation was run 24/7/365 even if people were not there, just to keep them thermally stable for best accuracy.


----------



## TheAttorney

auricgoldfinger said:


> @TheAttorney Roon expresses crossfeed in terms of Cut Frequency (Hz) and Feed Level (dB).  Is there a way for you to equate DAVE's settings in those terms?



Sorry for the delay - I'm just recovering from the deluge of PMs on my BHSE/SR-009 sale - should have pitched my prices higher on these two items .

Chord's Rob has previously stated that DAVE's cross-feed is a digital representation of an analogue alogorthim. I don't think it is necessarily the same algorithm as used by Roon. The only parameter info I have is in this post.But because they may be different algorithms, you can't necessarily compare this to Roon settings.

FWIW, I found Roon's CF implementation to be less transparent than DAVE's. But Roon's advantage is that the CF parameters are configurable and I haven't got round to playing with different settings.


----------



## paradoxper

arnaud said:


> This may come as a surprise to many, starting with me actually but I've come to the reason that my home audio rig is a bit over the top for how much use I make of it. I've been tracking hours of use on all the tubes I got for the BHSE since day one so I know exactly how frequently I've been using it and it's just not living up to the amount of money I've invested.
> 
> cheers,
> arnaud



I'm in a similar position. More 2ch priority and a feeling of neglect, though.


----------



## mulveling (Oct 3, 2017)

Lol, wth is going on here, guys!!
I understand the refocus on 2ch as priority, though. And this presents a great opportunity for high-rolling buyers right now.

You guys can count on me to hold onto my Stax gear. But even more importantly, you guys can REALLY count on Purk...that dude's never gonna sell all his big electrostat gear 

Seriously though, that T2 would be gone now if I hadn't recently dropped a multiple of that on 2ch and analog gear...


----------



## astrostar59 (Oct 3, 2017)

Yes, I can understand the lifestyle thing. And having a 10K HP system 'sat there'. But I see it more as a part of access to music, it doesn't need to be clocked and totalled up to justify itself. When I use my 009s and Carbon I am reminded how much enjoyment I get from it. Mind, I have invested more in 2 channel and do use that more in total hours. But many of those hours are low volume and as background. My 009s tend to be intensive periods while I read stuff on the web or just rock out sat in my favourite chair.

Honestly, I can never see me selling. I have had some form of Stax system for 25+ years. Plus, 10K doesn't buy much in the way of top 2 channel, my speakers alone were double that (new) though I got them used. And the quality you can get with a top Stat system, it takes some beating in 2 channel, and in some areas maybe can't be beat? Anyway, my thoughts for today. I can't hide my sadness to hear of a solid poster leaving the nest.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

paradoxper said:


> I'm in a similar position. More 2ch priority and a feeling of neglect, though.


Drop me a PM when you sell your T2 

Ali


----------



## paradoxper

Ali-Pacha said:


> Drop me a PM when you sell your T2
> 
> Ali


You want to know my pain. You want to know my regrets.


----------



## nepherte

paradoxper said:


> You want to know my pain. You want to know my regrets.


Oh wait, I missed the part where you might actually consider selling that beautiful T2 of yours.  Unfortunately I just bought a house, decided not to live in it and simply moved to a different continent. Safe to say, budget-wise, your amp is not in the cards for me at the moment (you so eloquently refer to it as "a lifetime full of regrets") . So I suggest you hold on to it for at least another year and consider me a buyer


----------



## Rossliew

nepherte said:


> Oh wait, I missed the part where you might actually consider selling that beautiful T2 of yours.  Unfortunately I just bought a house, decided not to live in it and simply moved to a different continent. Safe to say, budget-wise, your amp is not in the cards for me at the moment (you so eloquently refer to it as "a lifetime full of regrets") . So I suggest you hold on to it for at least another year and consider me a buyer



Want to sell your BHSE?


----------



## nepherte

Rossliew said:


> Want to sell your BHSE?


Ask me again when i get paradoxper's T2


----------



## Rossliew

nepherte said:


> Ask me again when i get paradoxper's T2



That would be 1 year's time? LOL


----------



## nepherte

Rossliew said:


> That would be 1 year's time? LOL


Exactly. Finally, someone who gets me


----------



## Ali-Pacha

nepherte said:


> Ask me again when i get paradoxper's T2


Dude, I'm first in line 

Ali


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> You want to know my pain. You want to know my regrets.



Don't do it, you may regret it?


----------



## JimL11

paradoxper said:


> You want to know my pain. You want to know my regrets.



Damn, What!  I thought you were joking!  And here I was hoping to hear the T2 in comparison with my lowly SRX-Plus.


----------



## Jones Bob

What.....has the STAX bubble burst?


----------



## astrostar59 (Oct 3, 2017)




----------



## paradoxper

astrostar59 said:


> Don't do it, you may regret it?



I certainly will. I certainly already do.


JimL11 said:


> Damn, What!  I thought you were joking!  And here I was hoping to hear the T2 in comparison with my lowly SRX-Plus.



Maybe I am kidding myself.


----------



## Pokemonn (Oct 4, 2017)

What LOL sell! sell! sell! Sell! SELL! SELL! SELL! it's time to sell! LOL jk


----------



## astrostar59 (Oct 3, 2017)

Naaa. Thinking I know folk who use these items less than twice a year:




once a year




30 miles a year





3 week trip once a year





2 weekends per year





6 rides per year





never moves, only cocktails and parties


----------



## wink

..


----------



## Whitigir (Oct 4, 2017)

Woaaaa, no more Stax eh

Even though Stax is stationary and is inconvenient, but the performances when you have a correct setup is blissful Music ! Movies ! You name it ...... totally worth it


----------



## Rotijon

Wow, who diy-ed that for you?


----------



## Whitigir

Rotijon said:


> Wow, who diy-ed that for you?



My works With the helps from KG and the Stax Mafia, the people behind the DIY community


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Stax master race 

Once done the secret handshake (KG amp and good source)...there you're


----------



## Jones Bob

Whitigir said:


> Woaaaa, no more Stax eh
> 
> Even though Stax is stationary and is inconvenient, but the performances when you have a correct setup is blissful Music ! Movies ! You name it ...... totally worth it



Those JJ 6CA7s you have installed are nice. I bought a quad on your recommendation. 

But you need some NOS/used OS Mullards to _*really*_ squeeze the magic out of the GG. 

Got a quad of good used OS 1974 vintage Blackburn xf3s around a month ago, put them in and the amp was transformed. Everything sounds just so correct, balanced and stunningly realistic now. So I went vintage crazy and now have a quad of mint NOS 1960 vintage Philips/Valvo (L code-made in Brussels) DD getter brown base EL34s in the mail from Germany. Thank G*d there were no good Philips metal base EL34s on eBay or I’d be living on Top Ramen and hot dogs until 2020. 

I must say along with many others, no new production EL34/6CA7/KT77 can match the musicality of those grand old tubes.


----------



## Whitigir (Oct 4, 2017)

Jones Bob said:


> Those JJ 6CA7s you have installed are nice. I bought a quad on your recommendation.
> 
> But you need some NOS/used OS Mullards to _*really*_ squeeze the magic out of the GG.
> 
> ...



Ghosts....the *hole is Deep  .  In the future, I will


----------



## Pokemonn

I really envy you guys...I want to build my Carbon GG. I have already bought boards from Soren. but I have no knowledge to build...sad...lol


----------



## Whitigir

Pokemonn said:


> I really envy you guys...I want to build my Carbon GG. I have already bought boards from Soren. but I have no knowledge to build...sad...lol



Nobody born with knowledge my friend


----------



## Pokemonn

Yea you are really right. I will try to build it Thanks!


----------



## Jones Bob

Pokemonn said:


> I really envy you guys...I want to build my Carbon GG. I have already bought boards from Soren. but I have no knowledge to build...sad...lol



The longest journey begins with the first step. You have taken that first step (GG PCBs). Over at the other site, there is a whole thread on DIYing the GG. Lots of people there to help with your next steps.


----------



## SeaWo|f

no idea how to build an amp and starting with a complex stat amp, running what 600v rails? Seems reasonable to me. Please live stream.


----------



## Pokemonn

Thank you for your advices, Bob!


----------



## Whitigir

SeaWo|f said:


> no idea how to build an amp and starting with a complex stat amp, running what 600v rails? Seems reasonable to me. Please live stream.



Dude...working with electricity while being distracted can only result in one thing....


----------



## SeaWo|f

No commentary needed on the stream just put the camera to the side somewhere with a view of the work bench any time power is turned on to the amp. Poke you live is a stand alone home right without too many near by structures and by your self I hope?


----------



## Pokemonn

yes its stand-alone house with super duper old parents...but I prefer my privacy protected lol


----------



## Jones Bob

SeaWo|f said:


> No commentary needed on the stream just put the camera to the side somewhere with a view of the work bench any time power is turned on to the amp. Poke you live is a stand alone home right without too many near by structures and by your self I hope?



Sigh.......


----------



## AnakChan

Pokemonn said:


> I really envy you guys...I want to build my Carbon GG. I have already bought boards from Soren. but I have no knowledge to build...sad...lol


You're not alone here in Tokyo. There's 2 other upcoming builders (me, you already know about, and another closet Head-Fier). We should sync up off line and work on our builds and maybe we could see who can make chassis for us too - not exactly bulk but having 3 built may be _a little _easier to find someone than a one-off.


----------



## Jones Bob

Just found this EL34D tube on the internet.

http://www.chameleonracks.com/images/news/5-EL34D-2015.10-uF-b.pdf

It’s a true triode (no G2 or G3) plug-in replacement for a conventional EL34 circuit. The plate, G1, and indirectly heated cathode are supposedly purpose designed and not just an EL34 assembled with grids missing.

One drawback for use in a BHSE or GG is a maximum plate voltage of 600V, so don’t try it. 

No other info.

I suspect it is a Chinese one of a kind Wondertube. Probably Tianjin TJ Full Music custom built to vendor specs. Like the Sophia EL34-ST tubes.


----------



## Jones Bob

AnakChan said:


> You're not alone here in Tokyo. There's 2 other upcoming builders (me, you already know about, and another closet Head-Fier). We should sync up off line and work on our builds and maybe we could see who can make chassis for us too - not exactly bulk but having 3 built may be _a little _easier to find someone than a one-off.



That sounds like it could be a great learning experience for everyone. 

On that other site, with the thread on DIY GG, there is a member that sells the attractive double cases that Whitigir and I use on our GGs. He also offers a slightly reworked version for a Carbon build. 

Things go so much better building these amps when the metal work is solved for you.


----------



## Whitigir

Jones Bob said:


> That sounds like it could be a great learning experience for everyone.
> 
> On that other site, with the thread on DIY GG, there is a member that sells the attractive double cases that Whitigir and I use on our GGs. He also offers a slightly reworked version for a Carbon build.
> 
> Things go so much better building these amps when the metal work is solved for you.



Definitely  recommended on those chassis


----------



## Jones Bob (Oct 4, 2017)

An old shot of mine with cases side by side.






There is a black volume knob on the amplifier, but not easily seen here.





Taken just now, with the PS case under the Yggy.


----------



## JimL11

Jones Bob said:


> Just found this EL34D tube on the internet.
> 
> http://www.chameleonracks.com/images/news/5-EL34D-2015.10-uF-b.pdf
> 
> One drawback for use in a BHSE or GG is a maximum plate voltage of 600V, so don’t try it.



Actually the spec states the maximum DC plate voltage is 600v, and it says that it can be used in any situation where a triode-strapped EL34 can be used, including push-pull applications, so it should be able to be used in a BHSE or GG.   Remember, tubes are not like transistors, where going over the maximum specified voltage means instant death for the transistor.  Tubes that are specified at 600V DC plate voltage may see 1000 volts AC peak in a push-pull application.


----------



## Jones Bob (Oct 4, 2017)

JimL11 said:


> Actually the spec states the maximum DC plate voltage is 600v, and it says that it can be used in any situation where a triode-strapped EL34 can be used, including push-pull applications, so it should be able to be used in a BHSE or GG.   Remember, tubes are not like transistors, where going over the maximum specified voltage means instant death for the transistor.  Tubes that are specified at 600V DC plate voltage may see 1000 volts AC peak in a push-pull application.



True. If the spec is to be believed. Liked to see some hands on experience to validate.

I put that note in not to try in a BHSE or GG, as CYA with an unknown tube in a high voltage application.

I won’t be putting my money up first. But thought this was an interesting twist on current manufacture EL34 tubes.


----------



## JimL11

Jones Bob said:


> True. If the spec is to be believed. Liked to see some hands on experience to validate.
> 
> I put that note in not to try in a BHSE or GG, as CYA with an unknown tube in a high voltage application.
> 
> I won’t be putting my money up first. But thought this was an interesting twist on current manufacture EL34 tubes.



I don't blame you one bit for your reluctance to try them out.


----------



## Jones Bob

And hope no one took my post as an endorsement and try them blindly.


----------



## Tinkerer

Pokemonn said:


> I really envy you guys...I want to build my Carbon GG. I have already bought boards from Soren. but I have no knowledge to build...sad...lol



Building four boards is easy. All you need is an okay soldering iron and the ability to read part datasheets on mouser/digikey/arrow. The hard part is having a good case to put it into, and all the tools to power it up and check on things safely. But once you've done it for one amp, you've got all the stuff for any subsequent ones.


----------



## Pokemonn

AnakChan said:


> You're not alone here in Tokyo. There's 2 other upcoming builders (me, you already know about, and another closet Head-Fier). We should sync up off line and work on our builds and maybe we could see who can make chassis for us too - not exactly bulk but having 3 built may be _a little _easier to find someone than a one-off.


 Anakchan Yes its good idea! I will PM you. Thank you!


----------



## D2Girls

What are some of the differentiators of Stax headphones vs your standard sessenhers and hifi mans?


----------



## Tinkerer

Just sounds a lot clearer to me. Which probably translates to smooth treble and tight bass. The lambdas often emphasize the treble on purpose to highlight it, though I prefer the more nuetral stat models. It's also important to note that while good bass is possible on a stat, it can be difficult to design for, which is not the case on dynamics and planars. Honestly, if stats didn't require specialized amps, I think they would totally dominate the market. But that's just a function of the tech they use. It's a little strange to me that they aren't a bigger share of the upper market, but I think that's a function of people looking in that range already having a normal setup they've invested a decent amount in and being leery of having to jump on a different technologic pathway.

That's why used Japanese stuff is good though. Less than two hundred bucks and you can usually snag an entry level set with amp. Another fifteen bucks for a regulated universal power supply and you got a stat setup for less than an HD600.

I will say one thing that gets overblown a bit. Entry level STAX is 95% as good as upper level. I like my 007 Mk I a lot, favorite stat in the world, but my old Lambda Spirit which was like a tenth of the cost is almost as good, small treble emphasis and less bass. And my old SRM-Xh with a custom power supply is as good as anything short of a modern KG build or an SRX.


----------



## Whitigir (Oct 5, 2017)

Tinkerer said:


> Building four boards is easy. All you need is an okay soldering iron and the ability to read part datasheets on mouser/digikey/arrow. The hard part is having a good case to put it into, and all the tools to power it up and check on things safely. But once you've done it for one amp, you've got all the stuff for any subsequent ones.




Yes, the hardest parts is casing and metal works, together with problems solving....and safety measures.  Simply put, if you don’t know how to diagnose and solve problems, you will have a big bump down the road, but then again....no one born with knowledge 

Regarding those new EL34-D....each one is $300....I would rather buy NOS XF2 or so....lol


----------



## astrostar59

Whitigir said:


> Woaaaa, no more Stax eh
> 
> Even though Stax is stationary and is inconvenient, but the performances when you have a correct setup is blissful Music ! Movies ! You name it ...... totally worth it



I must say, I do like your 2 chassis case, very fine. On thing I was curious about, how did you get the PS caps into the slim 2nd box? Maybe the caps on the GG are not as tall as on my CC? Have you any interior pics?


----------



## Whitigir

The caps used are shorter than those oversized in Carbon.  This pic from the very first time I put her up together


----------



## soren_brix

Whitigir said:


> The caps used are shorter than those oversized in Carbon. ...


"oversized"? based on what?  ...those in the pic is half the capacitance


----------



## Rossliew

One question from a noob. Does a bigger transformer equate bigger power and hence greater reserves/headroom to provide greater dynamics (assuming all else is equal) or does it not matter for electrostatic amps?


----------



## AudioDrag

Rossliew said:


> One question from a noob. Does a bigger transformer equate bigger power and hence greater reserves/headroom to provide greater dynamics (assuming all else is equal) or does it not matter for electrostatic amps?



These KG amplifier designs work in class A mode. This means they draw constant power from the mains. The power doesn't vary with the music signal. So a bigger transformer wouldn't gain you any headroom.


----------



## Whitigir

soren_brix said:


> "oversized"? based on what?  ...those in the pic is half the capacitance



 over-simplified lol, and yeah


----------



## soren_brix

Whitigir said:


> over-simplified lol, and yeah


what is the voltage rating on those? (and part number)


----------



## Whitigir

80-ALC10A331DH550

550vdc-330uf


----------



## JimL11

AudioDrag said:


> These KG amplifier designs work in class A mode. This means they draw constant power from the mains. The power doesn't vary with the music signal. So a bigger transformer wouldn't gain you any headroom.



Actually, all electrostatic headphone amps work in Class A.  That includes all the Stax amps, the Sennheiser HEV90, the SRX Plus, etc.


----------



## Tinkerer (Oct 5, 2017)

soren_brix said:


> what is the voltage rating on those? (and part number)



You can tell from the packaging, they're some kind of Kemets. I got some similar ones for my 12V GRLV. They're short and stumpy the same way and wider than the normal footprint.

Edit:nevermind, already posted


----------



## rgs9200m (Oct 5, 2017)

To TheAttorney (re: post 12981 of Sept.27th, Life After Stax)  I would play with different cables for the HEKv2 to get around the EQ (and maybe even the crossfade).
Silver widow was superb on my Senn HD650, tightening the bass and making the upper-mid-to-high range more silky and less peaky. And Frank's customer service at Toxic is great. I used Toxic on my former Sennheiser phones and loved them.

On my HEKv2 with the Hugo TT (with and with and without external amping) I really like the Norne Draug 2. It let me drop the EQing I did to avoid a bit of glare in the HEK and again add transparency and tightness to the bass.  It also adds more liquidity to vocals and strings.
The thing to focus on with the HEKv2 is liquidity in the mids. I like dynamics for liquidity (but the Audeze LCD4 has fine liquidity).

[Note: I'm sure others will chime in with suggestions that will undercut your goal of simplicity, and I will suggest you try the LCD4. Sorry to add to your anxiety. (FWIW I also have an 009 with a KGSS/mini.)]

Others here love (to the extreme) the Danacable Lazuli, but I have not heard it, so I have no idea personally.
But it appears to be much easier and faster to get than the Norne Draug and I would test it out if I were you just based on the enthusiasm for it.
(Norne also makes a higher end silver cable that is new and, well, awesome. Maybe try talking to Trevor. He is familiar with the HEK.)

Since you are from the Stax world, the headphone cable world may be a new experience for you. But I have developed the opinion that EQ is a patch that is best avoided vs. cable upgrades. The problems solved with EQ in my experience are far better attacked with good headphone cables.
When I get a good cable and I can turn off my EQ, I just go, Ahhhh..., this is much more natural and honest.
(I know this is controversial, but less so than politics, I hope.)

tl;dr summary: I love headphone cables and think they help tremendously and think it is a much better approach then EQ. Try Norne Draug2.


----------



## TheAttorney (Oct 5, 2017)

rgs9200m said:


> To TheAttorney (re: post 12981 of Sept.27th, Life After Stax)  I would play with different cables for the HEKv2 to get around the EQ (and maybe even the crossfade).
> Silver widow was superb on my Senn HD650, tightening the bass and making the upper-mid-to-high range more silky and less peaky. And Frank's customer service at Toxic is great. I used Toxic on my former Sennheiser phones and loved them.
> .



I fully agree with you on the importance of the cable and also on focusing on HEK's midrange, and also of avoiding DSP if possible. But this is moving too far from a Stax topic, so I'll keep my answer very brief here (and maybe we can continue more of this on the HEK thread?):

You may have missed that I actually own a Silver Widow and favourably reviewed it on the HEK thread. In short, I love it, and it does make the HF silkier etc, but no cable on earth can change the fact that the HEK has a very particular treble peak, as seen in Tyll's measurements of the V1.The 009 also has some peaks in different places, but they didn't bother me as much as the HEK peak.

I preferred the HEK V2 to the LCD4 on SQ, weight, comfort and price. So no contest for me, but everyone has different preferences, so I'm not saying one is objectively better than another.


----------



## wuwhere

Just curious, has anyone here listened to Mjolnir Audio’s new “Cheap” KGSSHV amp?


----------



## Rossliew

Wondering as well..


----------



## Jones Bob (Oct 6, 2017)

I have not heard it.

Still, from Birgir’s reputation for evolving and refining his amp designs, I’d wager the new less expensive KGSS is at least as good as, if not outdoing his earlier efforts.


----------



## astrostar59

Opps, hard hats....


----------



## biscottino

I was going to add a kgss hv carbon to my listening position but I read about the new Ifi audio pro iesl and I have some doubts about it. Listening with a Viva Egoista and Burmester Rondò.


----------



## soren_brix

Tinkerer said:


> You can tell from the packaging, they're some kind of Kemets. I got some similar ones for my 12V GRLV. They're short and stumpy the same way and wider than the normal footprint.
> 
> Edit:nevermind, already posted


Apparantly 16mm constitute "oversized" ... seems like the ESR is 3-4 higher for those Kemet ones


----------



## Tinkerer

I just picked the ones I used because they fit the height restriction of my case, were cheap and had a good lifetime.


----------



## Whitigir (Oct 7, 2017)

Tinkerer said:


> I just picked the ones I used because they fit the height restriction of my case, were cheap and had a good lifetime.



Yes, and same here.  It is very hard to stretch on the Capacitors when slim and smaller factor need to be in place.  Though, these Kemet has very high ripple current, 3-6A


----------



## mem916 (Oct 7, 2017)

Ok so I took the plunge and bought a pair of Stax SR-007 mkII headphones and the Woo Audio GES amp to drive them.  This is my first experience with Stax headphones but I have owned SoundLab Electrostatic speakers for 15 years or so so I figured I would like them.   I primarily use them at the office but have been bringing the whole rig home on weekends to monitor recordings of LPs that I don’t have on CD or that have poor sound quality on CD.  (Not to open up that can of worms!). I record at 24/192 and then convert to 24/96 FLAC to load on my AK300 DAP.  I have always recorded direct to my Tascam and bypass it’s internal volume controls so it was kind of a chore to record without good headphones to monitor with.  Now I can at least enjoy good sound even if it isn’t the same experience I get with my SoundLabs.

I’m using the Purist Audio design 3.5mm to RCA with the AK300.   I have been very happy with Purist Audio Design cables in my home system so decided to stick with them for this rig.  I also use one of their more “entry level” power cords on the GES.

Woo Audio shipped my GES with the optional 12BZ7 tubes.  I guess these are Russian?   I didn’t bother with them or the stock 6S4As.  I’ve been buying tubes from Andy at Vintage Tube Services for many years so I got him to send me a nice matched quad of 6S4As and since I have a lot of good vintage Telefunken 12AX7s in my spares I put a matched quad of them in instead of the 12BZ7s.

I am extremely happy with the results from this little system.  It is perfect (maybe even overkill) for what I am using it for and makes work much more enjoyable to be able to have very good sound.  It won’t ever replace my home system but if I had to one day radically downsize my life it would certainly make things better.  And I’m recording lots of LPs.  .

Sorry but that’s all I have time for now.  Will add some more thoughts on how the sound compares to previous headphones I have owned later if I get time.

edit:  I tried to upload some pictures and they didn't make it.   Trying again.


----------



## JimL11

mem916 said:


> I didn’t bother with them or the stock 6S4As.  I’ve been buying tubes from Andy at Vintage Tube Services for many years so I got him to send me a nice matched quad of 6S4As and since I have a lot of good vintage Telefunken 12AX7s in my spares I put a matched quad of them in instead of the 12BZ7s.



You do realize that 6S4As were designed to be used in tube TVs, so they are ALL OS or NOS. The ones you got from VTS are probably no better than the ones that came with the GES.


----------



## mem916

JimL11 said:


> You do realize that 6S4As were designed to be used in tube TVs, so they are ALL OS or NOS. The ones you got from VTS are probably no better than the ones that came with the GES.




Sorry but just because a tube is old stock or new old stock means nothing if they aren't matched.  A mismatched quad of NOS 6S4As is never going to sound as good as a matched quad.  And yes I do know they are TV tubes.


----------



## mulveling (Oct 7, 2017)

Really beautiful setup mem; you've got some killer sources going there!! Damn, the Omega II's look sweet in black. Wish black was an option for 009.

In regards to the 6S4As, there was at least a mild-to-moderate difference in sound between the GE and RCA quads I used with my old KGST. I ended up preferring the RCA, but the GE was good too. Andy at VTS is pretty good about recommending good sounding tubes, and screening/matching them.


----------



## mem916

Thanks!  Yes I like the way they look in black too. The other thing I forgot to mention is how light they are. Very comfortable to wear for long listening sessions. I tried several pairs of Audeze headphones at a dealer and I could tell right away they were not going to work for me.

Andy is a treasure. I don’t like to promote him too much because I don’t want to have to compete with all you guys for tubes


----------



## JimL11

mem916 said:


> Sorry but just because a tube is old stock or new old stock means nothing if they aren't matched.  A mismatched quad of NOS 6S4As is never going to sound as good as a matched quad.  And yes I do know they are TV tubes.



I would have expected Woo to match the output tubes, but maybe not.


----------



## JimL11 (Oct 7, 2017)

biscottino said:


> I was going to add a kgss hv carbon to my listening position but I read about the new Ifi audio pro iesl and I have some doubts about it. Listening with a Viva Egoista and Burmester Rondò.



The Ifi iesl is a transformer and bias supply, conceptually similar to a Stax SRD-7 or Woo WEE, which needs to be driven by an amplifier.  Now, why this needs a battery supply is unclear to me, unless it is for the bias supply - but in fact the bias needs voltage but little or no current, so a voltage multiplier such as Stax uses is more than adequate.  In fact, a large capacitance/battery in this situation is a positive risk to the diaphragm, and Stax uses a 5 megohm resistor precisely to limit current going to the diaphragm.

The question is, which is best for driving electrostatic headphones, a dynamic headphone or speaker amplifier into a transformer, or a dedicated electrostatic amplifier.  The majority opinion seems to be the latter - for example, Stax, who have been the most consistent supporters and developers of electrostatic headphones, and who began by supplying transformers to drive their headphones, stopped selling transformer units over 20 years ago in favor of dedicated amplifiers.  Sennheiser's original flagship Orpheus HE90 headphones came with matching HEV90 amplifier.  They didn't even offer a transformer box option.  It's hard to argue that a transformer is superior in any way other than cost, and in fact the cheapest Stax amp is cheaper than either a Woo WEE or the iFi iESL, so even that is in question.


----------



## mem916

JimL11 said:


> I would have expected Woo to match the output tubes, but maybe not.




They might.  But what tester do they use, has it been calibrated properly, etc?  I know I can trust VTS. Plus, he cleans the pins. Corroded pins drive me nuts.


----------



## mem916

mulveling said:


> In regards to the 6S4As, there was at least a mild-to-moderate difference in sound between the GE and RCA quads I used with my old KGST. I ended up preferring the RCA, but the GE was good too. Andy at VTS is pretty good about recommending good sounding tubes, and screening/matching them.



The quad I got from him are Tung-Sol. I use a lot of Tung-Sol 6550s in my home system’s amplifiers


----------



## JimL11

Ooohhh, TungSols!  Good tubes!


----------



## biscottino

JimL11 said:


> The Ifi iesl is a transformer and bias supply, conceptually similar to a Stax SRD-7 or Woo WEE, which needs to be driven by an amplifier.  Now, why this needs a battery supply is unclear to me, unless it is for the bias supply - but in fact the bias needs voltage but little or no current, so a voltage multiplier such as Stax uses is more than adequate.  In fact, a large capacitance/battery in this situation is a positive risk to the diaphragm, and Stax uses a 5 megohm resistor precisely to limit current going to the diaphragm.
> 
> The question is, which is best for driving electrostatic headphones, a dynamic headphone or speaker amplifier into a transformer, or a dedicated electrostatic amplifier.  The majority opinion seems to be the latter - for example, Stax, who have been the most consistent supporters and developers of electrostatic headphones, and who began by supplying transformers to drive their headphones, stopped selling transformer units over 20 years ago in favor of dedicated amplifiers.  Sennheiser's original flagship Orpheus HE90 headphones came with matching HEV90 amplifier.  They didn't even offer a transformer box option.  It's hard to argue that a transformer is superior in any way other than cost, and in fact the cheapest Stax amp is cheaper than either a Woo WEE or the iFi iESL, so even that is in question.



you've been clear as the water, I do not think I'll be back on my decision and soon a kgss hv carbon will drive my Stax. I had the Wee and this has been the subject of measurements, its transformer has a nonlinear pattern.


----------



## arnaud

I've now put the EL34 quads up for sale, this is the beginning of the end


----------



## Rossliew

You will regret it, Arnaud


----------



## thinker

I was wondering what's inside the best electrostatic amp and opened the case of QA Transdyn


----------



## JimL11

thinker said:


> I was wondering what's inside the best electrostatic amp and opened the case of QA Transdyn



Is this the amp for the new Jecklin Float?


----------



## bearFNF

looks like someone was drunk when they put hose caps on the board.


----------



## mem916

I was thinking the same thing.  Also, how can it be "the best" without vacuum tubes?  




bearFNF said:


> looks like someone was drunk when they put hose caps on the board.


----------



## thinker

JimL11 said:


> Is this the amp for the new Jecklin Float?


Yes and you can drive Staxes to another level with 800V output.... of course with your own risk


----------



## JimL11

bearFNF said:


> looks like someone was drunk when they put hose caps on the board.



Doesn't exactly inspire confidence, does it.


----------



## JimL11

Looks like the Transdyn QA uses the IcePower ICE125ASX2 Class D two channel amp module, which you can buy on eBay for $160, apparently driving output transformers for the Stax,  Not sure I would consider that technology "the best" electrostatic amp.


----------



## paradoxper

thinker said:


> I was wondering what's inside the best electrostatic amp and opened the case of QA Transdyn



WOW! I was wondering if you were happy paying for that pile of crap? YIKES!


----------



## JimL11 (Oct 9, 2017)

And apparently all the other electronics are to dynamically equalize the audio signal, divided into three bands, depending on the output volume - basically a sort of auto-variable Fletcher-Munson EQ device, supposedly to compensate for the fact that listening in the home is done at levels softer than in the concert hall.  There may also be some dynamic compression/expansion built in.  Color me skeptical.


----------



## XLR8

JimL11 said:


> And apparently all the other electronics are to dynamically equalize the audio signal, divided into three bands, depending on the output volume - basically a sort of auto-variable Fletcher-Munson EQ device, supposedly to compensate for the fact that listening in the home is done at levels softer than in the concert hall.  There may also be some dynamic compression/expansion built in.  Color me skeptical.




Snake oil.. 
Lots of that in this industry.. 
Caveat emptor.


----------



## wink

paradoxper said:


> WOW! I was wondering if you were happy paying for that pile of crap? YIKES!



The price hike is to pay for the implementation technology.....


----------



## paradoxper

wink said:


> The price hike is to pay for the implementation technology.....



Great point. I can see the amount innovation and R&D so much more clearly than that Gilmore dude.


----------



## thinker (Oct 10, 2017)

just opened for curiosity Transdyn to see why it's so much better in soundquality than any other Stax amp .Maybe the inside looks bad but soundquality is my first priority.It doesn't help much if it's build on stellar quality standard and sounds like crap.


----------



## thinker (Oct 10, 2017)

forgot to say....actually there is something inside of Transdyn amp ,but  look at Spritzers amp it's almost an empty box and he is asking 5600 USD for it


----------



## 1note

thinker said:


> forgot to say....actually there is something inside of Transdyn amp ,but  look at Spritzers amp it's almost an empty box and he is asking 5600 USD for it



"There's a troll in the dungeon!"


----------



## paradoxper

How about a comparison of just BoM of both the Carbon and your garbage box?


----------



## JimL11 (Oct 10, 2017)

What I see in spritzer's box is a power transformer, regulated power supply and two discrete amplifier channels, well constructed and built with high quality parts.  What I see in the Transdyn is an inexpensive dual channel Class D amp driving open frame transformers which are oriented in the same direction and so likely to interact with each other, indifferent (to say the least) construction quality, and a lot of ICs manipulating the input signal. There's no accounting for taste.


----------



## Ali-Pacha (Oct 10, 2017)

No wonder the amount of parts doesn't mean anything to sound quality.
No wonder some audiophiles may prefer colouring solutions to electrically better (correct) ones.
No wonder one could prefer e-stat from transformers rather than from dedicated amps.
Please, anybody with breaking news ? 

Ali


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

@thinker Want to buy my 200 pcs Mickey Mouse puzzle? Has lots of parts on it, 200 if I'm correct.
5k €, PM if you're interested.


----------



## JimL11 (Oct 10, 2017)

thinker said:


> Yes and you can drive Staxes to another level with 800V output.... of course with your own risk



BTW, I understand that the bias voltage for the Jecklin Floats is around 1200V, which is over twice the Stax bias of 580 volts.  Plugging in a Stax headphone (which would require an adapter cable in any case) to the Transdyn QA is likely to damage the headphones and void the warranty.


----------



## VandyMan (Oct 10, 2017)

ToroFiestaSol said:


> @thinker Want to buy my 200 pcs Mickey Mouse puzzle? Has lots of parts on it, 200 if I'm correct.
> 5k €, PM if you're interested.



You're being a bit hard on the OP. He is entitled to his opinion, even though he is totally wrong.  And, not many folks have taken the time to post pictures here, so I thank him for that.

Edit: grammer


----------



## kevin gilmore

Would love to hear the equalizer/compander as a stand alone component


----------



## JimL11

Well, it's an interesting concept from an interesting company - Q_U_AD Musikwiedergabe started out as a distributor for Quad speakers and electronics, and I believe still builds a version of the original Quad electrostatic, so it has some audiophile credibility.  Of course, loudness compensation has a somewhat checkered history, beginning with the loudness switch in many 50s - 70s amps. Later on, Yamaha had a variable loudness knob on their amplifiers.

The issue is that the equal loudness contours vary with the SPL level, so that for proper correction, you have to know the actual recorded SPL, versus the SPL at the listener's ears on playback, and then adjust the correction depending relative volume between the two, varying the correction as the level of the recording changes.  

As an example, say that the recorded SPL is 10 dB louder than the playback.  Then, a passage which was recorded at 80 dB would need to be adjusted by the difference between the 80 dB and 70 dB loudness contours to sound subjectively flat, whereas a passage recorded at 50 dB would need to be adjusted by the difference between the 50 dB and 40 dB loudness contours to reproduce the same subjective tonality at the quieter playback level - the point being that the difference between 80 and 70 dB equal loudness contours is NOT the same as the difference between 50 and 40 db equal loudness contours.  Now, according to the Transdyn QA literature, they say that the difference between the concert hall and listening levels in "small rooms" is 8 dB, but that has got to be an average, and I would expect a fair variation from one listener to another.  A different level would lead to different contours, so it doesn't seem to be an easy problem to solve with analog circuitry, although possibly you could do it with variable level dependent digital EQ.


----------



## weasel1979

I just found this (link) history of Stax products. It is great that they released the Omega in 1994 and den 007 in 1998. Two decades, and even though planars got closer, Stax TOTL cans are still on top / up there after 2 decades.
http://www.stax.co.jp/Export/History.html


----------



## astrostar59

thinker said:


> forgot to say....actually there is something inside of Transdyn amp ,but  look at Spritzers amp it's almost an empty box and he is asking 5600 USD for it



I only question is, for 5600 why the simpler PS, There is the better GR supply with 2 LV boards now. Only saying... Maybe an older build?


----------



## georgep

astrostar59 said:


> I only question is, for 5600 why the simpler PS, There is the better GR supply with 2 LV boards now. Only saying... Maybe an older build?


Whether there is a better supply than Spritzer's PSU is debatable as no one to my knowledge has A-B'd the two. And Spritzer has never opted for the separate LV supply. The real comical part though is that you could not cram the contents of Spritzer's amp with proper heatsinking into the chassis of the Quad transdym - it just would not fit - and the transdym does 20-some-odd other things to the signal instead of just amplifying it (which for some people seems to be a plus, for others not so much). If the OP thought that Spritzer's amp had a lot of open space, they should take a look at the interior of a Nelson Pass First Watt amp... That said, I have not heard the Transdym and likely never will.


----------



## astrostar59

georgep said:


> Whether there is a better supply than Spritzer's PSU is debatable as no one to my knowledge has A-B'd the two. And Spritzer has never opted for the separate LV supply.


Dunno, but most of the Carbon builders seem to be going for the later board with the LV supply and big caps. I think that PS version would not fit into Spritzers mini chassis on his other amps. Anyway, regardless 5.6K does seem a bit toppy. May as well go 6.5K and get the BHSE with pro chassis. But whatever, I ain't paying 5.6K so not bothered.


----------



## georgep

I certainly would use the golden reference high voltage supply, which is by far the best one that is available, but in fairness Spritzer's psu is his own recipe and not available for DIY.


----------



## JimL11

I agree that the Golden Reference HV and LV supplies would be what I would use if I was going for state of the art.  I don't want to speak for spritzer, but IIRC he has posted in the past that he thought the sonic difference between the original KGBH PS and the Golden Reference was relatively small, and he also has a fondness for building amps that don't take up much real estate - the Golden Reference PS don't fit into a small area.


----------



## paradoxper

Regardless his pricing is just too high.


----------



## georgep

paradoxper said:


> Regardless his pricing is just too high.


That is something I won't get into as builders have a variety of reasons to charge what they charge. My original point was merely that there are still more "guts" in Spritzer's amp than the Quad, not the pricing or relative merits of other carbon builds.


----------



## JimL11 (Oct 13, 2017)

paradoxper said:


> Regardless his pricing is just too high.



Apparently his parts costs are high, due to him living on an island without a lot of natural resources other than thermal energy - everything has to be shipped in, there are import taxes, etc.  I imagine if HeadAmp were located in Iceland its prices would be significantly higher also.


----------



## paradoxper

Yes, his prices (for his location or building choices) are high. Not an inherent knock on his builds but rather a simple fact.


----------



## wink

Perhaps, Spritzer should relocate to the good ol' US of A........


----------



## Whitigir

Am I seeing some one who knows how to turn screws judging on some one else who is actually working and making Electro Stat Amps ?  Face palm....


----------



## Quixote79

why is all gold towers for - not seen allwhere else?


----------



## Whitigir

Just extra coolant power with permanent Epoxy


----------



## Jazic (Oct 13, 2017)

Does anyone have any familiarity with ordering Stax from Amazon located in Japan?

I'm currently looking at a pair of Stax SR-007A MK2 and a Stax Driver Unit SRM-727A.

I am sure Ebay and the used market would be a better option but I have some Amazon credit I want to burn and nobody seems to have either of those up for sale used so...

Luckily I've never had any issues ordering from non-Prime sources on Amazon so I'm sure if the seller has a good rating I'd be safe...

That said would the 007A and 727A work together well? I know I'll need a transformer for Japan's 100v to our 120v but is there anything else I should be worried or need to know about?


EDIT: Oh! I also meant to ask about the Woo Wee and Jotunheim. Do these two work together well? I currently have and love my Jotunheim and it appears to output more than enough juice for it but was wondering if anyone had any experience with the two. Zeo on youtube talked about it for a minute but said he couldn't get the cables working right and glossed past it.


----------



## bearFNF (Oct 13, 2017)

The only issue would be warranty, (well, that and finding a dealer that has good rep) but until Edifier gets their act together and gets a service center set-up in the US you will have to ship it back to them anyway, so....
My experience shows no benefit to buying in the US so far due to the above mentioned lack of Service in the US. Unless you can find a dealer that will actually help you get them sent in there is now benefit to buying local. it comes down to the price difference...

I would shoot Schiit an email about the WOO WEE with the Jot. If I recall correctly, when I asked about using the WEE with the Rag they said it would not work due to grounding topology.??



Jazic said:


> Does anyone have any familiarity with ordering Stax from Amazon located in Japan?
> 
> I'm currently looking at a pair of Stax SR-007A MK2 and a Stax Driver Unit SRM-727A.
> 
> ...


----------



## aldavey

Jazic said:


> Does anyone have any familiarity with ordering Stax from Amazon located in Japan?
> 
> I'm currently looking at a pair of Stax SR-007A MK2 and a Stax Driver Unit SRM-727A.
> 
> ...



I live in Tokyo and have purchased both 009s and SRM 007t this year from Amazon.jp. Actually it is third party dealers selling on Amazon rather than Amazon themselves. Having said that there were no issues with the dealer I used. In fact I had a problem with one of 009 drivers and had to return it under warranty via the dealer as Stax will not deal with the public directly. The repair turn round was very fast with no issues. I have recently bought a KGSS carbon from Mjolnir so have a hardly used SRM007t available. I would be happy to accept any offer, so PM me if interested.


----------



## JimL11 (Oct 14, 2017)

Jazic said:


> Does anyone have any familiarity with ordering Stax from Amazon located in Japan?
> 
> I'm currently looking at a pair of Stax SR-007A MK2 and a Stax Driver Unit SRM-727A.
> 
> ...



The general consensus is that the 007A needs a powerful amplifier to really sing.  The stock 727A has some sonic issues due to its lack of global feedback (see the InnerFidelity review), and sounds better when modified to have global feedback, but of course that modification also voids your warranty.  If you're into DIY, there are better alternatives - the SRX Plus (mostly tubes) or a Kevin Gilmore amp (solid state or hybrid).  If you're not into DIY, then you may be able to find a builder to do one for you.  The commercial alternatives are Mjolnir Audio in Iceland (pricy due to import costs for the builder), and the Blue Hawaii SE (BHSE) from HeadAmp - expensive but a work of audio art. IMO the Woo WES is overpriced and technically inferior, and in the marketplace, it's value used doesn't hold up nearly as well as a used BHSE, which to me, at least, implies its sonic qualities are likely inferior as well.

The Woo WEE is designed to be used with loudspeaker amplifiers, and there have been reports that its bias supply has problems with either missing ballast resistor (you need a 5 megohm resistor AFTER the last capacitor) or too large bias capacitors, both of which could lead to damaging the diaphragm.  If you want to use a transformer drive, you're safer getting a used Stax SRD7 Pro, which is also designed to be used with loudspeaker amplifiers.  Whether or not the Jotenheim plus transformer combo has enough power to drive the 007 depends on how loudly you listen - as I said, the SR007 has a reputation for being relatively power hungry even though its specified sensitivity is similar to other electrostatic headphones.  This is likely because that sensitivity is specified at 1 kHz, whereas the "loudness" region of the audio spectrum is around 2-4 kHz, where the 007 has a few dB less output than most stat phones.  Remember that 3 dB difference is a 2-fold difference in power.  The WEE literature says that any amp that can put out 3 watts is sufficient.  The Jotenheim is specified at 7.5 watts balanced and 2.5 watts single-ended, so it is close.


----------



## JimL11

Whitigir said:


> Just extra coolant power with permanent Epoxy



Given the size of the heatsinks you've got those FETS attached to, that's a bit like trying to raise the level of the ocean by peeing in it.


----------



## Whitigir

JimL11 said:


> Given the size of the heatsinks you've got those FETS attached to, that's a bit like trying to raise the level of the ocean by peeing in it.



Pretty much  but at least, you knew that you peed in it to have contributed....rather than did not....lol


----------



## Jazic

JimL11 said:


> The general consensus is that the 007A needs a powerful amplifier to really sing.  The stock 727A has some sonic issues due to its lack of global feedback (see the InnerFidelity review), and sounds better when modified to have global feedback, but of course that modification also voids your warranty.  If you're into DIY, there are better alternatives - the SRX Plus (mostly tubes) or a Kevin Gilmore amp (solid state or hybrid).  If you're not into DIY, then you may be able to find a builder to do one for you.  The commercial alternatives are Mjolnir Audio in Iceland (pricy due to import costs for the builder), and the Blue Hawaii SE (BHSE) from HeadAmp - expensive but a work of audio art. IMO the Woo WES is overpriced and technically inferior, and in the marketplace, it's value used doesn't hold up nearly as well as a used BHSE, which to me, at least, implies its sonic qualities are likely inferior as well.
> 
> The Woo WEE is designed to be used with loudspeaker amplifiers, and there have been reports that its bias supply has problems with either missing ballast resistor (you need a 5 megohm resistor AFTER the last capacitor) or too large bias capacitors, both of which could lead to damaging the diaphragm.  If you want to use a transformer drive, you're safer getting a used Stax SRD7 Pro, which is also designed to be used with loudspeaker amplifiers.  Whether or not the Jotenheim plus transformer combo has enough power to drive the 007 depends on how loudly you listen - as I said, the SR007 has a reputation for being relatively power hungry even though its specified sensitivity is similar to other electrostatic headphones.  This is likely because that sensitivity is specified at 1 kHz, whereas the "loudness" region of the audio spectrum is around 2-4 kHz, where the 007 has a few dB less output than most stat phones.  Remember that 3 dB difference is a 2-fold difference in power.  The WEE literature says that any amp that can put out 3 watts is sufficient.  The Jotenheim is specified at 7.5 watts balanced and 2.5 watts single-ended, so it is close.




Would you mind throwing some links for the DIY stuff? I've built micro quad copters/drones with relative ease. As long as the instructions aren't requiring a degree in physics and engineering then I should be able to figure it out. 

As for the 727A and the feedback issue, is there a breakdown of that it involves to get it working better? 

I really appreciate it. I'm getting my feet wet with electrostatic and i hope I'm not in for a shock.


----------



## Ojisan

Jazic said:


> Does anyone have any familiarity with ordering Stax from Amazon located in Japan?
> 
> I'm currently looking at a pair of Stax SR-007A MK2 and a Stax Driver Unit SRM-727A.
> 
> ...



Regarding buying from Amazon.co.jp, I would double check by carrying it through the checkout process. Many Amazon 3rd party sellers don't ship outside Japan.


----------



## milezone

Hi, in the interest of simplicity  I own a stax srd7pro and am looking to drive my headphones directly from the output of my dac/interface (a rme802) connected to the srd7pro and use the computer as my volume control. Is there enough gain available to drive the stax' and furthermore does this pose any risk to the interface? Appreciate any advice.


----------



## Quixote79

Whitigir said:


> Pretty much  but at least, you knew that you peed in it to have contributed....rather than did not....lol








is them sticking out also the peed mod for perma ePoxy cooling?


----------



## Whitigir

Nope! Slimmer profiling and cool looking, with the better Capacitors


----------



## Whitigir (Oct 14, 2017)

Jazic said:


> Would you mind throwing some links for the DIY stuff? I've built micro quad copters/drones with relative ease. As long as the instructions aren't requiring a degree in physics and engineering then I should be able to figure it out.
> 
> As for the 727A and the feedback issue, is there a breakdown of that it involves to get it working better?
> 
> I really appreciate it. I'm getting my feet wet with electrostatic and i hope I'm not in for a shock.



There are no instructions.  No one wants to see anyone else get killed by reading the instructions in the while of numerous possibility that the electric could be messed up.  There are only “tips” and discussions, these are enough for anyone who have any ideas about these stuff to start being inspired and working on it.  The voltage is fatal in these applications.

No one is born with knowledge, if you are motivated enough, you will get it going

Here is the forum for it
https://www.head-case.org/forums/forum/16-do-it-yourself/


----------



## astrostar59

Good advice Whitigir. I would not recommend a novice to do a DIY build. Even if a complete kit was available needing just assembly, the voltages and risk of screwing things up, or yourself is not for the faint hearted. I would say look for a builder like John McLean or Kerry. My builder is stopping soon, so I can't say go talk to him, even though the 3 amps I have had from him have been excellent in every way.


----------



## soren_brix

Jazic said:


> Would you mind throwing some links for the DIY stuff? I've built micro quad copters/drones with relative ease. As long as the instructions aren't requiring a degree in physics and engineering then I should be able to figure it out.
> 
> As for the 727A and the feedback issue, is there a breakdown of that it involves to get it working better?
> 
> I really appreciate it. I'm getting my feet wet with electrostatic and i hope I'm not in for a shock.



Google "The SRM727 thread" and it pops up on top.

There are several pics and instructions on how to do it.

A variac and a known brand DMM might be a good investment if you are heading in that direction.
After soldering remember to clean away flux with som isopropanol or other cleaner - flux residue tends to conduct at those voltages.


----------



## kevin gilmore

JimL11 said:


> Given the size of the heatsinks you've got those FETS attached to, that's a bit like trying to raise the level of the ocean by peeing in it.



This I agree with. 

The joutenheim will definitely NOT work with the woo wee, for 2 reasons. The first is that it does not have the power required, or does it like running into something like 8 ohms. The second is that the woo wee has a common ground and
the joutenheim is a balanced output amplifier where channel grounds cannot be hooked together. Same reason the Ragnarok won't work.


----------



## Jazic

Thanks for all the info. I'll read into it and post any question of I have any.


----------



## JimL11

milezone said:


> Hi, in the interest of simplicity  I own a stax srd7pro and am looking to drive my headphones directly from the output of my dac/interface (a rme802) connected to the srd7pro and use the computer as my volume control. Is there enough gain available to drive the stax' and furthermore does this pose any risk to the interface? Appreciate any advice.



That won't work.  The SRD7 Pro is designed to be driven by a POWER amplifier.  It would be like asking your RME802 to drive loudspeakers directly - it doesn't have enough voltage and current output to do it.  The SRD7 doesn't need a very powerful amp - 20-30 watts will do fine...but it does need an amp.


----------



## wuwhere (Oct 14, 2017)

At the last RMAF, I brought my old ΩIIMkI and briefly compared it side by side with the 009 on a BHSE. I just said to myself wow that 009 and BHSE. I also compared briefly my ΩIIMkI side by side with MrSpeakers ES, again on a BHSE. I thought my ΩIIMkI was slightly smoother and MrSpeakers' ES was slightly more detailed. Again, this was brief and meet conditions so take it with a grain of salt. I am currently using a 717 but saving up for a Carbon.

edit: actually Mjölnir Audio's Carbon at $4.6K is just too hard to swallow...if only it's around 3-3.5K...oh well. Perhaps I should just get a mini KGSSHV or a KGST?... NAH!


----------



## joseph69

wuwhere said:


> Perhaps I should just get a mini KGSSHV or a KGST?... NAH!


While waiting for my BHSE to arrive I owned both the Mjolnir KGSSHV and KGST with my 009. I preferred the KGST, nothing wrong with it at all from what I heard..


----------



## wuwhere

joseph69 said:


> While waiting for my BHSE to arrive I owned both the Mjolnir KGSSHV and KGST with my 009. I preferred the KGST, nothing wrong with it at all from what I heard..



Thanks. I will keep that in mind.


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## mulveling (Oct 14, 2017)

Both the KGST and KGSShv are very fine choices to utilize while awaiting a BHSE. It can easily go either way, depending on personal preference. I preferred certain flavors of KGSShv,  but I really liked the KGST too. But don't get an overpriced mini KGSShv if you can help it (yeah, let me get half the PSU and still pay more for it).


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## Whitigir

I don’t know if anyone is aware of the T2, but there is  a couples available chassis sets which is already made and is listed here.  If you want to build your T2, or have it built, this is the time for it, before all parts are scooped up, and the original components T2 can no longer be made, and before the status of such amp became “unobtainable legendary”

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-stax-t2-amplifier-chassis.862794/


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## Pokemonn (Oct 17, 2017)

Im folling love with Stax HPs out of SRD7(normal bias). sound so soft! Lovely!
does frank cooter amp use output transformer? and how much?


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## wink

You'll love the staxxen much more out of a KG amp......


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## Jazic

I recently got my hands on a good deal for a SR-007A and SRM-007TA.

Are there any tube alternatives for rolling that would pair well with the 007? I'd assume a bright tube set might pair well or better than stock but was wondering if there were any recommendations. 

I'm not extremely experienced with tube rolling but I am familiar with the Lyr 2 and notice the subtle differences between Bugle Boy tubes and Amperex 7308 greens and stock. To my ears the BB's had more and better mids with more forward sound sig while the Amperex had much airier high end and low end depth and sounded holographic. I'm sure this information is useless in this situation but was wondering if the results would be similar.


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## JimL11

Jazic said:


> I recently got my hands on a good deal for a SR-007A and SRM-007TA.
> 
> Are there any tube alternatives for rolling that would pair well with the 007? I'd assume a bright tube set might pair well or better than stock but was wondering if there were any recommendations.
> 
> I'm not extremely experienced with tube rolling but I am familiar with the Lyr 2 and notice the subtle differences between Bugle Boy tubes and Amperex 7308 greens and stock. To my ears the BB's had more and better mids with more forward sound sig while the Amperex had much airier high end and low end depth and sounded holographic. I'm sure this information is useless in this situation but was wondering if the results would be similar.



There are no other tube types than 6CG7/6FQ7 that will work in the 007, but you can try different brand tubes.  Whenever you swap tubes, however, you have to adjust the balance and offset trimmers, which requires the use of a voltmeter. If you don't know how to do this, I would leave well enough alone.


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## Jazic

JimL11 said:


> There are no other tube types than 6CG7/6FQ7 that will work in the 007, but you can try different brand tubes.  Whenever you swap tubes, however, you have to adjust the balance and offset trimmers, which requires the use of a voltmeter. If you don't know how to do this, I would leave well enough alone.



I have a decent Fluke voltmeter and if there's a guide somewhere I'm sure I can figure it out easily enough. I have a decent comprehension for electronics to a certain level.


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## JimL11

Don't know if there is a guide specifically for the SRM007, you can do a Google search for adjusting balance and offset for the SRM-T1/006 series, which only uses one tube per channel.  For the SRM007, there are two additional adjustments (TVR3 and TVR4) to balance the two tube sections because it uses both tube sections of each 6FQ7 as one side of the output differential amp, so you have to adjust the bias resistors to get equal plate voltages for the two sections of the tube. If you can read a schematic, you can see them in the schematic - again, a Google search for Stax SRM007 output schematic should find it.


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## kylev (Oct 22, 2017)

*Short Impressions on 3 top tier Stax earspeakers - using Stax Amp SRM-717*

https://imgur.com/a/Wf82D


*SR007*
Listened to Stax SR-007 and the Amp 717 was really amazing experience.
Great bass impact, airy, amazing details and good clarity plus big soundstage.
Comparing it with HD800 SDR, this sounds more meaty on every notes, however it is a lot warmer sounding than HD800 and I am not really used to dark sound signature.

I feel that SR007 pairs bit better with 727 amp compare to 717, as 727 somehow bit brighter than 717.
SR007 has great bass impact among all Stax lines, but when pairing with 717 I feel it is a bit too much and warmer, so I get my hands on SR009.

*SR009*
Listened to Diana Krall brings me to a whole new level of listening to vocal music.
Her voices are very natural, every breaths she took were really present and clear, even at times when she swallowed her saliva it was really there.. my god.. unfortunately all detail recording will be revealed as well including those nasty ones.
Tonality is excellent, whole presentation is really effortless and rich, very musical.

The bass is okay, mid bass and sub bass are presented, but somehow bit lack of texture, less body and lack of impact, perhaps 717 is not powerful enough to bring out all of its lows.
Soundstage is wide, airy and instruments presentation are very clear. Highs are close to perfection, I don’t hear peaky highs when I hear it with other amps, perhaps because 717 leans toward warmer side.
In overall, personally I feel SR009 is not suitable for rock or house music, and surely bad recording will not do justice for this pair. This headphone is amazing for vocal oriented tracks, and classical music.

*L700*
L700 shares similar sound signature as SR009, but both the highs and mids are bit inferior to 009, but not like day night, the mids are also well presented, however somehow I feel the highs on L700 is bit peaky than 009 such as the sound of cymbals is bit more piercing than 009.
Soundstage is smaller compare to 009, overall presentation is nearer to singer (more forward).
Bass is excellent, better than 009, it has better texture and greater impact. It has lesser impact and bodied than 007 though, but personally I like the bass impact on L700 more, it just hits the sweet spot not overpowering like 007.

Playing EDM or Rock music on this L700 is nice and engaging, but I think it still can’t compete with planars like Audeze LCD-X or LCD-4 when playing this kind of genre. Audeze cans hits really hard and deeper.
Not sure if upgrading the Amp to higher level, like KGSSHV Carbon might improve it (?) .. hmm, another quest to explore…

In summary, I like L700   more among of all 3, I feel personally it sits in between 007 and 009 - not too warm like 007 and not too analytical like 009.


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## MacedonianHero

kylev said:


> *Short Impressions on 3 top tier Stax earspeakers - using Stax Amp SRM-717*
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/Wf82D
> 
> ...



I'd suggest redoing this with a better amp....you might be very surprised.


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## Ali-Pacha

Nice review...even if I strongly disagree with your assessments on bass 

Ali


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## kylev

MacedonianHero said:


> I'd suggest redoing this with a better amp....you might be very surprised.


Yes, I am thinking of doing another round later if i can get my hands on Kgsshv Carbon.


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## Tinkerer

Did they come out with a new 727? My old one was dark and muddy as hell with a 007 until I did the global feedback mod on it. Nothing bright about it at all.


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## Mystel

kylev said:


> *Short Impressions on 3 top tier Stax earspeakers - using Stax Amp SRM-717*
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/Wf82D
> 
> ...



I used to think that estats cant compete with planars in bass for a long time, until i tried a proper amp. Also with a carbon, the 009 hits harder than every audeze can ive owned(3/X/4), with incredible speed and extension.


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## catscratch (Oct 23, 2017)

Yes, the 717 will drive the L700 better than it does the 007 (and I presume the 009). But the 007 will scale better, and it doesn't have the L700's colorations, though it adds a few of its own. I echo the advice to re-evaluate with a better amp. In the meanwhile, the L700 with a cheapish amp will work well enough, and is still a respectable high-end heapdhone in its own right. I certainly like mine a great deal.


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## Pokemonn (Oct 29, 2017)

I just draw innerfidelity's new compensation curve on 009's raw curve.
surprise surprise . 009 treble is right. mid was wrong...from 200hz to 2khz range.
please try EQ it. surprisingly sound super natural. 
1khz shouty forwardness are gone.

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/compensation-curve-innerfidelity-measurements-dialog-part-1


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## Jazic

What is your method for EQ? I'm assuming you're using Foobar but was wondering what other options might be out there.


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## Pokemonn (Oct 24, 2017)

I use hardware EQer behringer DEQ2496(digital optical in/out).


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## zolkis

Pokemonn said:


> I just draw innerfidelity's new compensation curve on 009's raw curve.
> surprise surprise . 009 treble is right. mid was wrong...from 200hz to 2khz range.
> please try EQ it. surprisingly sound natural. 1khz shout forwardness are gone.
> 
> https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/compensation-curve-innerfidelity-measurements-dialog-part-1



Mine had a milder bump slightly higher, around 2-4 KHz and translated as added presence, but wouldn't characterise it as "shouting". I also tried EQ, it did improve something but it was also smearing a bit, so I preferred the original. There was some treble hash in the CSD as well. I could fix it with pad mods in 2 variants that also resulted in more bass impact and deeper tone, but after a while I have returned to the original configuration since it was more neutral and more faithful to original instrument sound. The new owner is very happy with it (optional mods shipped too).

Since then I've sold the 009 and kept the 007 Mk1 with modded 007 black pads which I liked 70-80% of time over the 009. I kept coming back to the 007, I like its musicality very much. See the FR, sounds very smooth and dynamic, and despite the 6kHz notch doesn't sound dark. Also, despite the neutral reference type of plot, subjectively it has more transparent bass and better bass impact/quality than my TH900 but hits slightly higher in the 40-80 Hz range rather than between 25-35 Hz like the TH900. Also, despite the milder midrange plot than with the 009, sometimes I feel presence is too strong (maybe recordings? upstream equipment?), not shouty, but not as relaxed and smooth either as the 60-1000 Hz region. It takes long time to realize this though, as the first impression people say is wow. There is no perfect headphone of course, but this is pretty good.


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## wuwhere

@zolkis, how did you modded your 007 Mk1?


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## Pokemonn

I can say that EQed 009 killed my 007mk1 early version very easy TBH.


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## zolkis (Oct 24, 2017)

wuwhere said:


> @zolkis, how did you modded your 007 Mk1?



I have folded out the pads, took out the foam, cut off the white 4 mm thick styrol layer with a ceramic knife (through the adhesive layer, so it's very clean cut), put back the soft upper part, done.
I have done dozens of other mods including with 009 replacement pads, but actually this one is probably the best.
Also, I am not using the springs either.

There is the mods thread for more details.


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## paradoxper

kylev said:


> *Short Impressions on 3 top tier Stax earspeakers - using Stax Amp SRM-717*



Bring in an HV at the least to begin the transcendence.


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## Whitigir

009 never bothered me, but it short of excellent all around.  However I do run it from grounded grid, and that must contribute into the 009 overall signature.  The carbon though, I had to run 16-16.5mA, anything over that will just make 009 to have artificial tone, and this must be why you are EQ-ing.


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## Pokemonn (Oct 24, 2017)

but you know EQing "few dB" diffrences are  far much much much bigger than amp or pad or cable or  whatever diffrence. and there is no perfect HP on the planet.

Frequency response is the single most important aspect of the performance of any audio device. If it is wrong, nothing else - Floyd Toole


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## zolkis

But it is very difficult to produce an accurate FR for a headphone that correlates well with subjective listening, more so than with speakers, which are debated as well, see e.g. manufacturers responses to Stereophile speaker measurements. 
Then you also need e.g. CSD, impulse, step, spectrogram etc to get closer, but still critical audition is the first, aided by measurements. Both can be learned, and both are hard to master. 
Technically EQ will improve something at a cost and I could never make peace with EQ for music types involving acoustic instruments. 
If you could achieve similar or better sonic improvements with correctly tuned amplification, IMHO it is a better thing to do. 
But EQ is cheap and may suffice you, that is fine. Just not for technical reasons .


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## Tiazmat

So my situation is probably a little too specific, but I'll put it out there in case anyone has any advice.

I'm going to be getting a pair of 007mkII's (modded), and need to power them. My plan was to get a Woo Audio Wee and power it with an Emotiva A-100. It's an incredibly cheap solution, but that's kind of what I'm looking for. But I now realize I have an opportunity to buy a DIY Aristaeus(ish; it's very similar) build by none other than Mr. Spritzer himself. The Aristaeus is an absolute bargain, but I know the tonal signature of the amp likely isn't the best pairing with the O2's, while the SS option of the Wee+A100 is likely tonally closer to what I would want. In addition, my plan was to save up and in maybe 6 months to a year to buy a used KGSSHV Carbon. Thing is, I'm not sure what that would mean for either scenario; I live in two different places so to keep one amp at each would be nice, but is definitely not completely necessary. But if I already spent ~$1500 on an Aristaeus, I may be less willing to shill out for the upgrade; though it would compliment the SS Carbon much better than the just inferior Wee combo. And if I ever did get a 009/HE90, the Aristaeus would be nice to have, but I certainly don't count on either of those. And I'm slightly against owning a tube amp because of the worry about burning a house down/needing to replace them (will be used probably 6+ hours a day, every day), but a bargain is a bargain.

So while if anyone has any input on any portion of this it would be appreciated, to put it most simply would be: thoughts on Aristaeus + 007s?


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## Jazic

Quick question, are there any reasonably priced optical dacs out there with balanced out? 

The Gungnir comes to mind but I was hoping for something cheaper that isn't garbage. 

Right now I'm using my Mojo but it's not balanced. It works well but idk..


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## zolkis

Jazic said:


> Quick question, are there any reasonably priced optical dacs out there with balanced out?
> The Gungnir comes to mind but I was hoping for something cheaper that isn't garbage.
> Right now I'm using my Mojo but it's not balanced. It works well but idk..



IMHO just swallow the price, get the Gungnir [MB], and enjoy. Save your search time for something else .


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## zolkis

Tiazmat said:


> So while if anyone has any input on any portion of this it would be appreciated, to put it most simply would be: thoughts on Aristaeus + 007s?



I loved the combination of the Aristaeus and my 007 Mk1. You can also do tube rolling. However, the 007 Mk2 sounds a bit darker, but it should be still fine.
Given your context of an imminent Carbon, perhaps it is wiser to wait for that one.
However, a Spritzer built Aristaeus... I would personally go for that, but make sure you listen to it first.

I don't have experience with the Wee, but reportedly it has deficiencies. I have good experience with the SRD-7 Pro driven from tube and SS amps. But a dedicated amp will sound smoother, will drive better / more correctly, and it is safer, especially if you like to listen loud (I don't).


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## Whitigir (Oct 25, 2017)

Why would a Tube amp burn down a house ? If tubes are dying, you can see it, or hear it, or both.  

I don’t normally listen loud, but Stax and KG amps always make me crank it up, because it sounds so good...the louder it goes.  Then Stax is so open, when I listen to music, everyone else does too....lol


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## zolkis

Whitigir said:


> Why would a Tube amp burn down a house ? If tubes are dying, you can see it, or hear it, or both.



Yes, one can hear when tubes are dying and need to be replaced. I don't know who stated that a tube amp would burn down the house.
However (OT), it is not impossible. I used to have a large and heavy c-j vintage tube amp that blew up a capacitor. The blast was huge, nearly destroyed the amp, some serious restoration was needed. The house was not in danger, but better be safe than sorry.
Checking/changing caps in amps (tube and SS) should be regular service.


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## kylev

paradoxper said:


> Bring in an HV at the least to begin the transcendence.


Thanks for the input, I guess .. 717 is indeed under powered to drive Omega series. 
Needs to use more powerful amp...


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## kylev

Mystel said:


> I used to think that estats cant compete with planars in bass for a long time, until i tried a proper amp. Also with a carbon, the 009 hits harder than every audeze can ive owned(3/X/4), with incredible speed and extension.


If 009 with KGSSHV Carbon really hits harder than Audeze, I think that would be my dream setup.. ohh.. i can see clouds.. and $$$$ flies away already


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## kylev

Tinkerer said:


> Did they come out with a new 727? My old one was dark and muddy as hell with a 007 until I did the global feedback mod on it. Nothing bright about it at all.


Hmm.. that's surprising, cause the 727 I heard from the store is a tad brighter .. just a bit.. perhaps due to my sensitive ear to bright sound (?)


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## Whitigir (Oct 25, 2017)

zolkis said:


> Yes, one can hear when tubes are dying and need to be replaced. I don't know who stated that a tube amp would burn down the house.
> However (OT), it is not impossible. I used to have a large and heavy c-j vintage tube amp that blew up a capacitor. The blast was huge, nearly destroyed the amp, some serious restoration was needed. The house was not in danger, but better be safe than sorry.
> Checking/changing caps in amps (tube and SS) should be regular service.


Ah well....when Capacitors blow, it just blows, even if it was a solid state amp.  Capacitors blowing is never fun, hell...nothing blowing is fun ....but Capacitors are exactly firecracker, the bigger they are....the more boom they make


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## Jazic

Amp question, I think this has been asked 1,000 times but is it better to control the volume with the estat amp just set it 100% and use the pre-amp to control the volume?

Right now I'm liking the idea of running the amp at around 75-90% and setting the pre-amp volume to be just louder than I find comfortable. That'd give the estat amp some headroom to play with when adjusting volume. 

I'm using the Jotunheim pushing balanced to a SRM-007tA btw. They don't exactly stack well so I'd rather only have one easily controlled and rarely adjust the other.


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## Quixote79

Whitigir said:


> Ah well....when Capacitors blow, it just blows, even if it was a solid state amp.  Capacitors blowing is never fun, hell...nothing blowing is fun ....but Capacitors are exactly firecracker, the bigger they are....the more boom they make


has you blowing lots captors with normal volume?


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## Trance_Gott

kylev said:


> If 009 with KGSSHV Carbon really hits harder than Audeze, I think that would be my dream setup.. ohh.. i can see clouds.. and $$$$ flies away already


It is a dream that never comes true! A LCD4 and all other LCDs blows the 009 easily away in the bass even on the Carbon! I have a Carbon and had the 009 over one year but for my music Metal it failed. Even your L700 hits harder! I only have a 007 an L700 and sold the other Stax phones. Not only the bass is low on SR009 its tonality is a little too bright!


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## paradoxper

Too much hyperbole. The LCD-4 has more added umph emphasized at all times. The 009 has perfectly acceptable bass response compared to just about every headphone out there. You want heavy hitting bass go with the Abyss or HE-6.


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## statfi

Jazic said:


> Amp question, I think this has been asked 1,000 times but is it better to control the volume with the estat amp just set it 100% and use the pre-amp to control the volume?


This can be a complicated question in general.  However, reducing volume with a digital device *can* reduce the resolution (i.e., effective number of bits).  I would *start* with running the Jotunheim full out selecting either its high or low gain setting (which should NOT affect the number of bits) to put the "typical" setting on the estate amp close to 50% (typically 12:00).  Of course, subsequent listening tests may reveal you like something else.


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## Jazic

50% on the estat is good enough for me. I like the volume knob on the SRM-007tA better than the Jotunheim anyways.  

with most of what I'm doing 50% on the Jotunheim and 50% on the estat is a decent listening level for me. I generally have to lower Tidal from my PC because most youtube, netflix, games and such just don't reach the same volume output as Tidal so I tend to run it around 50% within the app itself. I know I might be losing bits but I occasionally switch to the Exclusive Mode, Full Volume, and Passthrough MQA (whatever MQA stands for, master quality audio?). 

Thanks for the response and input. I'll try to run it more 12 oclock rather than running one at 100% the other low.


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## zolkis

Jazic said:


> Amp question, I think this has been asked 1,000 times but is it better to control the volume with the estat amp just set it 100% and use the pre-amp to control the volume?



That depends on which e-stat amp and which preamp.

Theoretically it is better to set the volume from the e-stat amp, since it may be in more optimal place than an outboard volume controller. The question is that is it really that case in your case.

About pots quality... I have the Alps RK50 (as nearly every aging snob), RK27, Penny&Giles, a couple of good sounding carbon pots of various origins, optical encoders, discrete potmeters, I've been through exotic preamps and passive stages and yes, there are minor differences, but not anything major. A smooth and well tracking carbon pot already sounds good enough, and in practice I doubt that in an e-stat amp you'd need anything more than an RK27, provided the circuits are properly designed. Use whatever has good mechanical and electrical design (the former usually comes together with the latter). Personally I'd go with a discrete volume control made with e.g. Vishay thin film TaN2 (tantalum nitride) resistors.


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## zolkis

Quixote79 said:


> has you blowing lots captors with normal volume?



This one blew because it got old and dried out.
There was also a "capacitor plague".
So capacitors are not life insurances, see also in  the caps vs batteries for energy storage in hybrid drive trains.


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## Jazic

Just got my Stax SR-007A. Serial says it's a SZ2 version...

From what I've read here: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-stax-sr-007

It says they can be "fixed" to sound like a Mk1, I assume that's the bass port mod using tac?


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## Muinarc

Jazic said:


> Just got my Stax SR-007A. Serial says it's a SZ2 version...
> 
> From what I've read here: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-stax-sr-007
> 
> It says they can be "fixed" to sound like a Mk1, I assume that's the bass port mod using tac?



Yes that should be the one. There are also those that think the pads can be modified a little to get a closer to a mk I as well I believe.


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## Jazic

I'm perfectly comfortable with doing the tac mod as I'm a tinkerer by nature but was wondering what the change would be on this version (SR-007A SZ2) if anyone knew off the top of their head. 

A few have said the SR-007A SZ3 is brighter and more forward but is better with the tac mod by improving the bass and controlling the highs.


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## Pokemonn (Oct 25, 2017)

for those who hesitate to EQ/tone control for Stax... from Stax HQ OFFICAL FAQ.

*Q7*　*トーンコントロールを使いたいのですが？ (i want to use tone controls?)*
　A7 トーンコントロール機能のある製品の出力端子へ接続してお使いください。(Please use audio units which have tone controls.)
http://www.stax.co.jp/support/FAQ.html

Yes, Stax HQ recommend to use tone controls(or maybe EQ), again its official info.


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## statfi

zolkis said:


> That depends on which e-stat amp and which preamp.
> 
> Theoretically it is better to set the volume from the e-stat amp, since it may be in more optimal place than an outboard volume controller. The question is that is it really that case in your case.



Zolkis is saying what I hoped I was saying: start with the DAC at its maximum volume (at either of its "gain" settings, which are completely different from the volume setting), and use the estate amp to get the listening volume you desire.  Choose the *gain* setting (not volume!) on the DAC so that you use ~50% volume setting on the estate amp.  (If this is just repetition, my apologies.)


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## statfi

Pokemonn said:


> for those who hesitate to EQ/tone control for Stax... from Stax HQ OFFICAL FAQ.
> 
> *Q7*　*トーンコントロールを使いたいのですが？ (i want to use tone controls?)*
> A7 トーンコントロール機能のある製品の出力端子へ接続してお使いください。(Please use audio units which have tone controls.)
> ...



Thanks so much for reporting this!  Is it possible to see this in English?


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## Pokemonn

statfi said:


> Thanks so much for reporting this!  Is it possible to see this in English?



No there is no english faq page yet. maybe in the future?


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## Jazic

statfi said:


> Zolkis is saying what I hoped I was saying: start with the DAC at its maximum volume (at either of its "gain" settings, which are completely different from the volume setting), and use the estate amp to get the listening volume you desire.  Choose the *gain* setting (not volume!) on the DAC so that you use ~50% volume setting on the estate amp.  (If this is just repetition, my apologies.)



That's what I got out of it. Try to keep the estat amp at around 50%. That's generally where I like to keep my volume on a regular amp as well but I wasn't sure if having more estat power would be better or whatever.


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## joseph69

Pokemonn said:


> for those who hesitate to EQ/tone control for Stax... from Stax HQ OFFICAL FAQ.
> Yes, Stax HQ recommend to use tone controls(or maybe EQ), again its official info.


Are you referring to Q7/A7?


statfi said:


> Thanks so much for reporting this!  Is it possible to see this in English?


This is the translation.


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## statfi

Pokemonn said:


> for those who hesitate to EQ/tone control for Stax... from Stax HQ OFFICAL FAQ.
> 
> *Q7*　*トーンコントロールを使いたいのですが？ (i want to use tone controls?)*
> A7 トーンコントロール機能のある製品の出力端子へ接続してお使いください。(Please use audio units which have tone controls.)
> ...


Thanks to Pokeman and Joseph69 for the translations:
*"Q7* *I want to use tone control?*
　 A7 Please connect to the output terminal of the product with tone control function."
I was thinking that Pokeman abstracted this topic, but Joseph69 made it clear (to slow-witted me) that Pokeman cited the whole relevant section.  However, I gotta say the this QA is not much of an official *recommendation" to use EQ, its just a statement that it can be done.


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## Pokemonn (Oct 25, 2017)

at least Stax didnt say you should not use tone controls/EQ at all.
I think Japanese language is very fuzzy to translate. I personally think its a recommendation as whole.


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## Ojisan

Chiming in as a native Japanese... 

The nuance here is "I'd like to use tone control, what should I do?" The answer makes more sense as a Q&A. 

The funny one is Q9: I'd like to listen to headphone output of my TV, to which STAX replies, mini stereo jack is most common so please use widely available mini stereo plug to RCA cable. Really? Good use of STAX


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## Pokemonn (Oct 26, 2017)

@Ojisan NHK does broadcast some nice music programs.classical pop etc... some entry level stax users tend to not to buy dacs.
it also contain meaning "May I use tone controls?"  Stax answer is "Yes please use it."


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## Ali-Pacha

So many people mistaking low-mids bump "e-dyn style" for real quality, extended and linear bass 

Ali


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## statfi

Ali-Pacha, please clarify for an old guy.  Which which "low-mids bump" do you refer?  What is "e-dyn style".  Thanks!


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## Ali-Pacha

Low-mids are what you get around 100-150 hz. Get almost any electrodynamic cans, or a leaky electrostatic pair of cans (L700 or 007mk2), that's it.
Look at measurements like those on innerfidelity or headphone.com, you'll immediately see what I mean.

Ali


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## Jazic

So I got my 007A SZ2's and wow.. I liked em but as with any headphone I get (or anything for that matter), how can I make it better?

Decided to do the tac port mod and the sub bass was better, less mid bass bloat and the mids didn't honk quite as bad.

Second, I decided to try some different pads. Initially I tried and liked the hybrid pads but eventually had to switch due to some overly bright upper highs. Decided to try some ZMF leather pads and these things hit the mark perfectly. With the port mod I'm getting deep sub bass rumble that I didn't with the hybrid or even stock. On some live tracks like Eric Clapton I find there are very low deep note notes that aren't necessarily a part of the music but are there and I noticed them easily with these. I even heard audience members whispering and talking lightly on Nirvana's live album...

These things are in a world by themselves. I don't find them overly dark or warm. In fact I'd say the highs are just right on the edge of being too much which I prefer. I'd rather have slightly too much than a horribly low amount.

Last thing I did was fiddle with the headband because my head is huge and they fit but were tight with stock headband. Decided to try an old LCDX mod I had using a cut pair of suspenders and they worked well. Getting them in there was a pain but it works well enough. This is a first rough version but it gets the job done. Might clean it up some later.

Anyways... this is my end game. If the 009's are brighter than these I don't think I'll like em. I have to really crank these to get these to splash my ears in a bad way. Details are just screaming pleasure into my ear holes.

+1 - Would blow my budget again for these if I had the choice to make again.Now I gotta get rid of all of my other cans.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

SR-007 is THE headphone 
Which amp and DAC are you using?


----------



## stersa

For me,009 and 007 mk1 are complementary.Sr009,are the best for jazz-acoustic-classical-vocal.  007 Mk1 for the rest of music
With BHSE ,are both,the best cans.

Now i m waiting in a few days a. Dave as a Dac for upgrade my act.system to olympo..

Regards

Sisco


----------



## Jazic

ToroFiestaSol said:


> SR-007 is THE headphone
> Which amp and DAC are you using?



Jotunheim > SRM-007TA
Using balanced.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Jazic said:


> Jotunheim > SRM-007TA
> Using balanced.



Hahaha it gets like 745.775434% better with a KG amp and a top DAC...it just scales like mad with a powerful amp and good sources


----------



## ER-Jiji

Hello guys, sorry for bothering.

Is there any Stax owner live in Japan here? I like to know what amp you using and where to get it.
Since I don't think I can buy BHSE, KGSShv, Schiit here in Japan.

Thanks in advance =3=b


----------



## Jazic

ToroFiestaSol said:


> Hahaha it gets like 745.775434% better with a KG amp and a top DAC...it just scales like mad with a powerful amp and good sources



Right now I just have the desire for spending $5k for each incremental upgrade. This hits the spot for now.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

ER-Jiji said:


> Hello guys, sorry for bothering.
> 
> Is there any Stax owner live in Japan here? I like to know what amp you using and where to get it.
> Since I don't think I can buy BHSE, KGSShv, Schiit here in Japan.
> ...


Ask @arnaud , @Currawong and @AnakChan 

Ali


----------



## ER-Jiji

Thanks XD
I'll try to asked them later =w=b


----------



## AnakChan

I don't own the BHSE, KGSSHv, nor Schiit. I can however throw a whole bunch of KGSSHv parts at you and hopefully you can make something outta it


----------



## SeaWo|f (Oct 26, 2017)

ER-Jiji you might want to try talking to Justin from HeadAmp I have seen reports of new BHSE turning up at dealers from time to time in all areas of globe. He might have a place for you to source one locally. If not IDK what shipping would run you.

Birgir/Spritzer(mjolnir-audio) has very reasonable shipping rates to the USA. I am sure Japan would be more, but his shipping cost was about 1/3 what I thought it would be..

Edit::

There is also a builder in China that sells through yoyocart. I am not sure he is on this forum but he is active on he other one. I have no idea about the quality of his builds though.


----------



## aldavey

ER-Jiji said:


> Hello guys, sorry for bothering.
> 
> Is there any Stax owner live in Japan here? I like to know what amp you using and where to get it.
> Since I don't think I can buy BHSE, KGSShv, Schiit here in Japan.
> ...


I live in Tokyo and purchased 009s and 007tA earlier this year through a third party dealer on amazon and had no problems. My advice would be to buy a KG amp direct from Mjolnir Audio. On placing my order with Spritzer I had the amp within a week and the transaction was faultless. As others have stated if you have Stax 007s or 9s go straight for a KG design.


----------



## ER-Jiji

@AnakChan , Thanks, but unfortunately I can't build it my self XD
Last time I build electronic part is 20 years ago for school test and I failed miserabely, thankfully I still passed the class.

@SeaWo|f , Thanks, I will try to contact him.
The thing I'm worried from buying from oversea is the import tax, I don't know here in Jaoan but tax in my country kind an overkill. 

@aldavey , do you buy KGSSHV from oversea? Did the tax expensive? 

Thanks Guys XD


----------



## aldavey

ER-Jiji said:


> @AnakChan , Thanks, but unfortunately I can't build it my self XD
> Last time I build electronic part is 20 years ago for school test and I failed miserabely, thankfully I still passed the class.
> 
> @SeaWo|f , Thanks, I will try to contact him.
> ...



Yes I bought as previously mentioned from Birgir/Spritzer who is based in Iceland. Check out his site, Mojolnir audio. As I recall the shipping on my Carbon was about Yen 14,000 and I paid about Yen10,000 on import.


----------



## Pokemonn

Sprizer of Mojolnir audio is very kind person when i e-mailed him, you can trust him.


----------



## ER-Jiji

@aldavey , that waay more cheaper than I expected. There is really something wrong with my country tax orz
Oh, well that mean my choice not longer limited to local market.
Thanks for the information =w=b

@Pokemonn 
Understood, thanks =w=b


----------



## aldavey

ER-Jiji said:


> @aldavey , that waay more cheaper than I expected. There is really something wrong with my country tax orz
> Oh, well that mean my choice not longer limited to local market.
> Thanks for the information =w=b
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure when I checked Japanese import tariffs online, electrical goos were zero percent, but please check as it was back in April and my memory could be playing tricks. The goods were delivered by DHL and I still do not understand what the charges I paid were for.


----------



## Golfnutz

ER-Jiji said:


> Hello guys, sorry for bothering.
> 
> Is there any Stax owner live in Japan here? I like to know what amp you using and where to get it.
> Since I don't think I can buy BHSE, KGSShv, Schiit here in Japan.
> ...



You could also check the 'For Sale' section. It appears Arnaud's BHSE is still for sale - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-headamp-bhse-with-rk50-option.861649/


----------



## Ojisan

In Japan, they currently charge you 5% sales tax on the cost of goods + shipping. No import tax. 

I spend few months of the year in Japan and places I look frequently are Yahoo auction and there are also a number of free-market sites that are becoming popular where a nice find can turn up. But then, thanks to JimL, I spend more time on the other site and Japanese builder blogs trying to build my own


----------



## ER-Jiji

@aldavey 
I already check it yesterday, April tariff is free just like you said but I though it was a mistake =w=a

@Golfnutz 
Thanks for the notice, I'll put that on the list.

@Ojisan 
No import tax...  I love that word.
I forget there a yahoo action site, ussualy I only use rakuten or kakaku. But the I still hsve hard time to navigate it.


----------



## aldavey

Ojisan said:


> In Japan, they currently charge you 5% sales tax on the cost of goods + shipping. No import tax.
> 
> I spend few months of the year in Japan and places I look frequently are Yahoo auction and there are also a number of free-market sites that are becoming popular where a nice find can turn up. But then, thanks to JimL, I spend more time on the other site and Japanese builder blogs trying to build my own



Well that would make sense for the import charges I paid. DHL also added a small fee, but can't remember exactly what, but it was minimal. I just remember, given the value of the Carbon, being amazed at the low import costs into Tokyo.


----------



## Pokemonn

@ER-Jiji he can build Japanese AC100V main power input version. please ask him about it.


----------



## ER-Jiji

I will, but not for now. 
Next week I will go to Fujiya Autumn Festival to test the unit, so maybe after that.


----------



## astrostar59

Maybe, but not the impressions on those HPs will change for you if driven better, I promise you.


----------



## arnaud

I am having 2nd thoughts on selling the amp and phones... but other than that, yes it’s still for sale, maybe...


----------



## Whitigir

Selling BHSE and 009 ? You would move to an upgraded of.....the so called Shangrila JR ? Or SusVara....or Shambala....Mokala ... ? Or what


----------



## musicday

arnaud said:


> I am having 2nd thoughts on selling the amp and phones... but other than that, yes it’s still for sale, maybe...


Best wishes with your sale. Nothing else will sound the same. Maybe you shouldn't sale
I like solid state amplifiers only.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

arnaud said:


> I am having 2nd thoughts on selling the amp and phones... but other than that, yes it’s still for sale, maybe...


Keep them 

Ali


----------



## JimL11

I agree with Ali-Pacha.  These are classic pieces, and even if you don't have a lot of listening time now, you may in the future.  And, it's already paid for.


----------



## astrostar59

Maybe, but at 6K it might be worth letting it go? No real loss from new. Most used hifi looses 50% in the first year.


----------



## Whitigir

astrostar59 said:


> Maybe, but at 6K it might be worth letting it go? No real loss from new. Most used hifi looses 50% in the first year.


That is because these amps are timeless, if good condition.

1/ these are not massively productions, and is ordered to taste.  Without Justin and headamp, it isn’t possible.
2/ these amps are great to pair with any Stax, and they sound beautiful
3/ commercially seek for a good builder and reputable one isn’t easy, and even if you found someone, it wouldn’t be cheap, and is depend on what you are looking to as the end result.

So, in the end, these are timeless pieces.  Because they are not really a massively produced equipments.  Whatever is out there right now, is not even a fraction of the demands . How many times do you see BHSE at any meets ? Or dealers ? It may take a couple more years to do encounter them more frequently, and even so....ordering them isn’t easy


----------



## Jazic

I know this has been asked 100 times but the stax fart is normal and nothing to worry about? 

I have a modded 007 SZ2 and don't want to mess anything up accidently.


----------



## aldavey

Jazic said:


> I know this has been asked 100 times but the stax fart is normal and nothing to worry about?
> 
> I have a modded 007 SZ2 and don't want to mess anything up accidently.



Farting with Stax is very normal, and the Stax fart is normal too.


----------



## Jazic

aldavey said:


> Farting with Stax is very normal, and the Stax fart is normal too.



Okay good. My wife tells me not to fart on my headphones but I'll have to tell her it's normal and to be expected.


----------



## Whitigir (Oct 31, 2017)

Oh my Gawd! My life changed ! Pics of before and after

Thanks you Dr. Kevin Gilmore! You are truly a Legend and without you, none of this would be possible.  Thanks to you with all the Thanks I could give Sir!

Thanks to George and his chassis, and some obsolete hard to find sands, advises, very very much!


----------



## Whitigir

Not sure if George still has his Chassis to sell, but if you ever dream about this T2, you better buy it.  George is very experienced in building T2 ! Without George, I would have my head in the toilets....LOL.  Without sir Dr. Kevin Gilmore, this became impossible !
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-stax-t2-amplifier-chassis.862794/


----------



## Pokemonn (Oct 31, 2017)

DARN I WANT A T2! LOL!
@Whitigir Whould you describe how your T2 sounds. must be insanely good. LOL


----------



## Rossliew

Impressions please ! Compared to the GG?


----------



## aldavey

Whitigir said:


> Oh my Gawd! My life changed ! Pics of before and after
> 
> Thanks you Dr. Kevin Gilmore! You are truly a Legend and without you, none of this would be possible.  Thanks to you with all the Thanks I could give Sir!
> 
> Thanks to George and his chassis, and some obsolete hard to find sands, advises, very very much!



Congratulations!! You've had a really busy time this year! Would really appreciate your impressions by comparison with the Carbon and GG. Obviously you need some extended listening time, or maybe not?


----------



## Pahani

Whitigir said:


> Oh my Gawd! My life changed ! Pics of before and after
> 
> Thanks you Dr. Kevin Gilmore! You are truly a Legend and without you, none of this would be possible.  Thanks to you with all the Thanks I could give Sir!
> 
> Thanks to George and his chassis, and some obsolete hard to find sands, advises, very very much!


Wow, congrats!! Awesome looking T2, you are a lucky man


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 1, 2017)

Pokemonn said:


> DARN I WANT A T2! LOL!
> @Whitigir Whould you describe how your T2 sounds. must be insanely good. LOL



If you want a T2, the time is now.  Any longer and all of the extinct semiconductors will be hell to try and find.  Especially with George having spare chassis ? I would ask him if he had any interested in putting 1 together 

T2 sound performances ? Well, she is simply awesome  .  I was test rolling her with the Groove tubes EL34, and I really never cared for it.  In fact when I was dialing in my T2, she cooked 1 of my JJ 6CA7, and I couldn’t figure out why, until KG told me that JJ is “trash”.  Well, I do love JJ tubes signatures, but I have to accept that T2 will not play nice, and I was lucky that she did not damage any other components !  I threw on my Groove tubes because I couldn’t find out why the 6ca7 was cooked, and wanted to see if she would cook the grooved tubes to have more clues to work on her.  Luckily, she took Groove tubes and I was able to get her up to sing me a couple hours of music.

Anyways, now I carefully measured the output and balances when I rolled in my next favorite quad, the RFT, and she took it ! Yay ! Now I can have a real hint at what she can do with good tubes ! She is simply awesome ! Just the bass dynamic and textures, layering, and every other separations, special that Depth ! Wooooaaaaaa, so vivid! Like you can track a so far away plays/instruments without loosing it or having it became blurry, not at all.

Trebles, she has awesome trebles, bit brighter than GG, but awesome.  She is awesome everywhere. I don’t think I can put any in-depth review for anyone.  Because there is no point.  You won’t easily obtain KG T2, and there is also no point in hyping.  The conclusion may sound like “hyping”, but I will leave it here.
*
However, if I can put it into words, the T2 is simply the best of Carbon + GG combined together And some more ....lol, did I say that ? No, it really is that


*


----------



## Pokemonn

@Whitigir  Thank you very much for reply and advices!!! Please enjoy your T2!!


----------



## Tinkerer

Great work! Gives me inspiration to keep plugging away at the Circlotron.


----------



## Whitigir

Tinkerer said:


> Great work! Gives me inspiration to keep plugging away at the Circlotron.


You are doing an awesome job sir ! I enjoy following your journey on building Circlotron.  I am not brave enough to poke around the Circlotron, so I opted an easier way with T2 build being well documented and many owners are out there , please keep up the great works, and you inspired me, not the other way around 



Pahani said:


> Wow, congrats!! Awesome looking T2, you are a lucky man


Yes, I am very lucky.  Everyone who started building T2 years ago had all the troubles and problems with group buy, chassis made, and components finding, together with problems here and there.  I came in just the right time that everything is well documented and worked out.  I simply used my limited knowledge with guidances from KG, George and many other peoples to be blessed with a working T2.  I would never be able to make her work if I wanted here back years ago.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

@Whitigir Congratulations! What a wonderful build you did, how does it sound vs the GG and the Carbon?


----------



## Whitigir

ToroFiestaSol said:


> @Whitigir Congratulations! What a wonderful build you did, how does it sound vs the GG and the Carbon?






Whitigir said:


> *
> However, if I can put it into words, the T2 is simply the best of Carbon + GG combined together And some more ....lol, did I say that ? No, it really is that
> *



Thanks ! I am very very lucky to get this far .  Blessed by KG magic and everyone else who helped


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

@Whitigir Lol sorry did not see the post, real bad hungover here hahaha


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 1, 2017)

WwwwOoooWwww, I got what I asked for, blue/purple glows from tubes.  Somehow, I never noticed these in the Grounded Grid.  EH, 6ca7EH


----------



## wuwhere

mulveling said:


> Both the KGST and KGSShv are very fine choices to utilize while awaiting a BHSE. It can easily go either way, depending on personal preference. I preferred certain flavors of KGSShv,  but I really liked the KGST too. But don't get an overpriced mini KGSShv if you can help it (yeah, let me get half the PSU and still pay more for it).



Omega II Mk1 and KGST, is this a better pairing than with KGSSHV mini?


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 3, 2017)

So, a little more tubes rolling on the GG.  In comparison, the GG is tubes friendly, she takes about anything as long as it is 6ca7 or EL34.  Here, I have New production Telefunken El34-TK Black Diamond.  Now, I have tried other current productions EL34, and I have to say that this is so far the best signature

Soundstage is more expansive, even more than my Vintage RFT.
Bass, deep but very controlled and full body with vivid and full of textures
Trebles, fine, detailed, and silky extensions

These are indeed the best current production run.  I bought this quad in an attempt to may be able to substitute the XF2 for my T2.  I will have quad Xf2 soon to compare.  But I don’t think anything else can out perform the legendary xF2.

Though, the T2 makes tubes sound different than on the GG.  Strange 
   


Respond from Telefunken company regarding rebranded JJ or tubes being made by JJ


*Thank you for contacting us. It is great that you are interested in our Black Diamond tubes. 

Yes, the black diamond tubes are made for us in the JJ factory in Slovakia. However, these tubes are not simply relabeled with our logo when they arrive, but are subjected to a thorough testing process which significantly increases their overall reliability.

When the tubes are first received from JJ, each tube is tested and measured for all critical values of performance. These tubes are then all cryogenically treated for longer durability, and burned-in once again to ensure stability. The tubes are then remeasured and retested before being hand picked and matched for optimal quality.

We completely understand your skepticism with new production tubes since you have had such bad luck in the past. However, we strongly encourage you to give our Black Diamond tubes a shot! If you decide to purchase them and are not satisfied with the results, then you can return the tubes within 30 days for a full refund.

We will try to provide you with a technical data sheet shortly. Let us know if you have any other questions!


All the best,

Keith O’Hara
TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik
300 Pleasant Valley Road Suite E
South Windsor, CT 06074
TEL:  [+1] 860.882.5919
FAX:  [+1] 860.882.5980*


----------



## Jazic

Anyone have any suggestions and/or links for suggested tubes for the 007tA? I'm really loving this combo with the 007A SZ2.

I do know that tube swapping can make improvements so I figured I'd start with that instead of dropping 4 grand on a new amp entirely.


----------



## Pokemonn

@Jazic if my memory correct, there is dedicated 007tII/A mod thread. please use search engine.


----------



## Jazic

@Pokemonn Since the site changed, I'm having a hard time navigating. Thanks for the comment though. Didn't know there was a mod thread.


----------



## astrostar59

I think there are restrictions with the 007 tubes, you may struggle to try other equivalent types. And if you do, obvously you need to recheck balanced and drift / offset etc.


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 4, 2017)

astrostar59 said:


> I think there are restrictions with the 007 tubes, you may struggle to try other equivalent types. And if you do, obvously you need to recheck balanced and drift / offset etc.


I do that even with kg t2, so I think it makes sense that original T2 is strict


----------



## Whitigir

Okay, XF2 is not a myth and not Hype.  They are indeed very Unique.  The depth and separation are unbelievable, the tonal body textures and timbres are vividly literally very realistic.

Yet, building my T2 for my own summit goal, so I do not want to cheap out.  Though, there are times here and there I do want to cheap out.  Who wouldn’t want to save money right ?

Anyways, Xf2 really blows new life into T2 and wake her up.  If she was Magical with other tubes, she now is Angels performing to my own personal ears !

Yes, I am exaggerating.  However, for all of that said, the XF2 is no myth, and no hype.  KG T2 is also worth every sweat, every gray matter, every pennies ! 

Thank you sir Dr. Kevin Gilmore !


----------



## georgep

If it were me, I would invest more money in the input tubes than the output tubes.

Also, did you notice that there was no real difference in offset and balance after you swapped the EL34? If the tubes are good, you should not have to readjust anything. If you have to readjust, then the tube(s) is/are likely questionable.


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 4, 2017)

georgep said:


> If it were me, I would invest more money in the input tubes than the output tubes.
> 
> Also, did you notice that there was no real difference in offset and balance after you swapped the EL34? If the tubes are good, you should not have to readjust anything. If you have to readjust, then the tube(s) is/are likely questionable.



Yes George, the T2 is spot on in offset and Balances with good tubes.  I am trying to find good input tubes, but I do not know which one I should be in.  I have heard many people recommended the XF2 since the GG, but I never could justify it.  Now, reaching the end-goal, I finally can blow money on Xf2 as I have seen others are using it too.

I believe KG when he said the NOS 6922 are likely not easily Balanced triodes, because there won’t be enough inventory to do so ? Probably the reason why Sylvania NOS did not work.  The reason why my JJ6922 is working now is that exactly what you said, Balanced Triodes is critical to T2.  Each side of these JJ is 95 gM for all 4.

What input tubes had you been enjoying T2 with ? Trying to find tubes for T2 is still somewhat nerve wrecking >.<


----------



## georgep

Any 6922, 6dj8 or 7dj8 that is balanced has worked flawlessly for me - I have avoided any "equivalents" that are not the European equivalents. The best ones I have heard though are early 1960s west German. The best of the affordable are the Matsushitas from Japan (which were made with Mullard's equipment from England).


----------



## mulveling

wuwhere said:


> Omega II Mk1 and KGST, is this a better pairing than with KGSSHV mini?


In that case, actually no. Omega II Mk I is an excellent match with KGSShv mini. I tend to forget to mention that, because I strongly prefer 009, and for the 009 or L700 I'd recommend the KGST over the mini any day. The mini tends to be a bit bright, but that works out wonderfully with O2 Mk I; great pairing.


----------



## hpeter

Whitigir said:


> Respond from Telefunken company regarding rebranded JJ or tubes being made by JJ
> 
> 
> *Thank you for contacting us. It is great that you are interested in our Black Diamond tubes.
> ...


 lol, made in slovakia, im so proud.  
honestly, in my diy amp jj sounds better, the  2a3 & ecc83
sovteks 12ax7wb is a bit different, got some touch to it.
they say it has more gain than standard...therefore different geometry.
and geometry is everything in tubes !


----------



## yates7592

For Carbon and 009 users:
What output bias are you running your Carbon at? I know Whitiger and astrostar run at something like 16-18mA. Mine is set at 20mA and wondering how exactly does this change the sound? Also, do I need to return to my builder to change the bias?


----------



## Whitigir

Today I had a chance to meet with a new friend and my GG has found a new home ! Got a brief time with 007 MkI and it is surprisingly good, very similar to 009 in soundstage and details but warmer, and with a lot more sub-bass.  I maybe spoiled by 009 and is too used to it, or the fact that I am listening by both from the tubes amps, I would prefer the 009 all day long.

The 007 MkI was a very good pairing with Carbon though, they compliment each another in a beautiful synergy matches.

We both had some pretty good sessions to compare between GG, Carbon, T2 and some tubes rolling.  We found that we have very similar taste in the “tubes” signature.  The best of this hobby is to get to know more and make more friend 



yates7592 said:


> For Carbon and 009 users:
> What output bias are you running your Carbon at? I know Whitiger and astrostar run at something like 16-18mA. Mine is set at 20mA and wondering how exactly does this change the sound? Also, do I need to return to my builder to change the bias?



From what I just experienced, the 007 MkI was better with Carbon running 20mA.  I still prefer 009 with 16.5mA or max of 18mA

It is better tuned by your builder, yes.  If you have no knowledge of these stuff, one finger slipping, and you would either kill your amp, or yourself


----------



## astrostar59

yates7592 said:


> For Carbon and 009 users:
> What output bias are you running your Carbon at? I know Whitiger and astrostar run at something like 16-18mA. Mine is set at 20mA and wondering how exactly does this change the sound? Also, do I need to return to my builder to change the bias?



I am curious about this. I love my 009s and Carbon, but 'possibly' it can be a bit too excited in the mid treble region. My previous KGSShv Sanyo off-board was warm as hell, bit too slow and tubby maybe, but it was more forgiving. I am changing DACs early February, so will have more of an idea where it sits then, but my gut feeling is I need to drop back to about 16-16.5mA as Whitigir did. I will visit my builder to do the change. Don't try it yourself!


----------



## doyouknowSBmean

Whitigir said:


> *
> However, if I can put it into words, the T2 is simply the best of Carbon + GG combined together And some more ....lol, did I say that ? No, it really is that*



As an owner of the original T2 as well as other estats amp (HEV90 with Stax socket, GG, Carbon, BHSE, WES, DIY T2), can definitely confirm. 

T2s are THE best amp.


----------



## Whitigir

doyouknowSBmean said:


> As an owner of the original T2 as well as other estats amp (HEV90 with Stax socket, GG, Carbon, BHSE, WES, DIY T2), can definitely confirm.
> 
> T2s are THE best amp.


Thank you! What tubes are you using in your T2 now ? 4 tubes are expensive, yet 8 tubes are even more....and tubes rolling isn’t that fun when they are expensive lol!


----------



## doyouknowSBmean

Whitigir said:


> Thank you! What tubes are you using in your T2 now ? 4 tubes are expensive, yet 8 tubes are even more....and tubes rolling isn’t that fun when they are expensive lol!


I am using the stock T2 tubes, National (now owned by Richardson).


----------



## mulveling

Those Nationals look like a precursor to the modern Electro-Harmonix EL34. This one even shows a tilted glass bottle, which is common in the EH. Almost certainly from the same Russian New-Sensor factory. There's also a lot of East-German made EL34 tubes branded RFT, Siemens, or sometimes National, that are VERY similar in construction and internals, but usually did a better job getting the bottles straight and overall have a higher look of quality. The East-Germans might sound a bit better in some applications, but honestly you can't fault the EH sound too much given how cheap they are (actually a decent sounding tube, but not the warmest or smoothest up top).


----------



## doyouknowSBmean

mulveling said:


> Those Nationals look like a precursor to the modern Electro-Harmonix EL34. This one even shows a tilted glass bottle, which is common in the EH. Almost certainly from the same Russian New-Sensor factory. There's also a lot of East-German made EL34 tubes branded RFT, Siemens, or sometimes National, that are VERY similar in construction and internals, but usually did a better job getting the bottles straight and overall have a higher look of quality. The East-Germans might sound a bit better in some applications, but honestly you can't fault the EH sound too much given how cheap they are (actually a decent sounding tube, but not the warmest or smoothest up top).


The same as Telefunken and WE in their years. They were never the most expensive tubes.


----------



## Whitigir

I guess Mullard is supposedly the most expensive one.  They are so well built that the glass bottle body is super thick in XF2 that I have here.  I guess their most special 6922 is the 10M series ? A quad priced just as much as the Xf2 Quad itself ....lol.  Telefunken though, is very expensive nowadays


----------



## bearwarrior

I am the lucky guy to get the GG today. So excited. The best thing is I get a chance to compare Carbon, GG, and T2 with both 007 MK1 and 009.

Here are my impressions:

Before I start, I need to claim that the followings are only my personal opinions. It may be different from others.

Headphones:
007 MK1 is the early production 007. Most people prefer the MK1 than MK2 since MK1 has rich midrange and pleasing tonality. Because of its warm sound signature, 009 and 007 MK1 become the ultimate combo to complement each other. If you are treble sensitive, MK1 probably is the better choice. But the pairing of an amp can help tune a bit.

Ultimate amp comparison:
I guess it is only for a special occasion to put Carbon, GG, and T2 side by side with plenty of tubes to roll. Well. Today is my day.

Carbon vs GG in 009 (both in 20 mA; GG is using JJ EL 34 and Telefunken EL34):
When I listen to Carbon and GG side by side, I can find a clear difference. It is not huge, but I can tell which is which without seeing it. The signature of GG is smooth. No harshness in the treble. The bass is impactful. More importantly, the soundstage is big with clear imaging. The imaging is very solid. I feel I can tell you how far each instrument is between each other. Carbon feels different. It is so dynamic. It has similar tonality of T2. The transparency will make 009 as the details king. I feel I can hear each note from each instrument. However, the connection between each instrument is a little behind the GG. It is not bad. But I can get slightly different feelings. A better analogy is that Carbon feels like a 20-year-old, which is passionate and engaging. GG feels like a 30-year-old, which is smoother and all arounder. I feel GG can handle more genres of music and have more capability to handle a 009.

Carbon vs GG in 007 MK1 (both in 20 mA; GG is using JJ EL 34 and Telefunken EL34):
The smoothness and the rich tonality of 007 MK1 always have a special connection to me. It always draws me into music I listen to and lets me forget I am wearing a pair of headphones. Another thing I need to mention is that I feel 007 MK1 is a little more comfortable to wear than 009. When 007 MK1 is plugged in Carbon, the smoothness and dynamic response are intertwined. It is just right. When it is with GG, it feels like syrup and honey. It is sweet. It might be too warm for somebody. But not for me. If I do the tube rolling with some 6CA7, it probably can give a little solid-state amp feel.

The ultimate T2 in 009 & 007 MK1:
T2 is the best for sure. Yeah, the end game, period.
The first thing that T2 strikes me is the soundstage. It is a bit wider than Carbon and GG. More importantly, it is the depth of the soundstage. When I hear the drums and water drops, it is so lively. The imaging is just right. Compared to HD800, I feel 009 has similar or a bit smaller soundstage but a much real soundstage. It is not artificial. From T2, 007 MK1 can reach its full capability. If you feel your 007 MK1 is lack of bass or treble, it is not anymore when it is with T2. T2 just takes all the advantages of Carbon and GG. Although I am not a lucky owner, spending a decent time with T2 is an unforgettable experience for me.  

I feel I should talk about these with more details. But, HOLD ON. Please let me listen to a more song right now. I am drunk to the music right now.


----------



## Whitigir

Very nice impression! Glad to have a good time with GG, T2 and Carbon side by side for comparison  . Enjoy your new toy


----------



## Jazic

Quick question, I have a SR-007A SZ2 that has the tac mod, what is the difference between it and the latest 007A (SZ3)?


----------



## joseph69

Jazic said:


> Quick question, I have a SR-007A SZ2 that has the tac mod, what is the difference between it and the latest 007A (SZ3)?


The number 2 & 3. Sorry, I had to do that.
Read page 762 starting from this post.


----------



## Jazic

@joseph69 - I read through and all I have now is more questions... Now I find out there is a Mk2.9 version and I still have no idea which version I have. 

My Serial is SZ2-2271 btw..

Also, replacement tubes for my SRM-007tA, would I be fine with two tubes since I only use the balanced input or do I need to replace all 4? I notice only 2 are burning when I run balanced (input 3).


----------



## joseph69

Jazic said:


> @joseph69 - I read through and all I have now is more questions... Now I find out there is a Mk2.9 version and I still have no idea which version I have.
> 
> My Serial is SZ2-2271 btw..
> 
> Also, replacement tubes for my SRM-007tA, would I be fine with two tubes since I only use the balanced input or do I need to replace all 4? I notice only 2 are burning when I run balanced (input 3).


Definitely the wrong guy to be asking about Stax serial #'s/versions. As far as I was told, Stax is all over the place with these. I'm not familiar with the SRM-007tA, so the same answer applies to this question, sorry. There are plenty of knowledgeable people on this thread who should chime in and give the correct answers to your questions, though.

I have a 2016 SR-007Mkll (SZ3) purchased from HeadAmp, so it's black instead of silver because it was purchased from the US, not Japan, and all I know is that it sounds really good to me.


----------



## Jazic

@joseph69 - The main reason I'm asking is I want to get some tubes. I also want to start looking for a 007A that has a different sound sig. I'd like to have two tuned differently so I can swap between them. I'm in no hurry but you've got to start somewhere.


----------



## JimL11

Jazic said:


> @joseph69 - I read through and all I have now is more questions... Now I find out there is a Mk2.9 version and I still have no idea which version I have.
> 
> My Serial is SZ2-2271 btw..
> 
> Also, replacement tubes for my SRM-007tA, would I be fine with two tubes since I only use the balanced input or do I need to replace all 4? I notice only 2 are burning when I run balanced (input 3).



You can't tell by the serial number.  Anything made after 2015 is the Mk2.9 version.

In the SRM-007tA,  each channel uses 2 tubes regardless of which input you are using. If you replace only 2 tubes you are either replacing half of the tubes in each channel, or else you are replacing both tubes in one channel and none of the tubes in the other channel.  If you want to replace the tubes you need to replace all 4 tubes.


----------



## joseph69

@Jazic 
I told you someone knowledgable would chime in!


----------



## Whitigir

Hence tube rolling in a matched Quad is hell lot of money >.<


----------



## kevin gilmore (Nov 7, 2017)

for srm-007 you have the standard offset and differential adjustments, and you have a per tube adjustment to balance the sections of each tube.

you just can't change the tubes without adjustments and expect it to work


----------



## joseph69

@Jazic 
This is why I didn't answer your question.


----------



## JimJames

Comparison between stax 300 and HD 700 or K712 or even ATH AD2000? I'm looking for my first pair of cans and might go straight to the electrostatic world


----------



## yates7592

bearwarrior said:


> Carbon vs GG in 007 MK1 (both in 20 mA; GG is using JJ EL 34 and Telefunken EL34):
> The smoothness and the rich tonality of 007 MK1 always have a special connection to me. It always draws me into music I listen to and lets me forget I am wearing a pair of headphones. Another thing I need to mention is that I feel 007 MK1 is a little more comfortable to wear than 009. When 007 MK1 is plugged in Carbon, the smoothness and dynamic response are intertwined. It is just right. When it is with GG, it feels like syrup and honey. It is sweet. It might be too warm for somebody. But not for me. If I do the tube rolling with some 6CA7, it probably can give a little solid-state amp feel.



Interesting, which is the best do you think for 007MK1, between GG or Carbon, when listening to rock, EDM, trance, ambient?


----------



## BenF

JimJames said:


> Comparison between stax 300 and HD 700 or K712 or even ATH AD2000? I'm looking for my first pair of cans and might go straight to the electrostatic world


If you'll go straight for e-stats, you'll never realize how good they really are, since you'll have nothing to compare it to. 

I've listened to HD700 in a store, and liked it a lot more than HD600/800S. It's super underrated, lost between two overrrated headphones.
Here are my impressions straight from the store:
_Sennheiser HD700 - crystal clear with great bass, timbre is good. A/Bing with Elear, Elear clearly is more dynamic and emotional. Very hard to drive - using HA-2 as DAC, Beyerdynamic A2 had to be maxed out, with Go1000 as DAC it was around 1-2PM_

I bought K712 Pro a year ago, haven't opened the package yet.

Stax L300 has a unique speaker-like presentation, that only Abyss 1266 could come close to.
Elear\Utopia are more headphone-y.
It can easily be modded into L1000R by using L700 pads (about 130$ extra) and reversing the sides.
L1000R is untouchable even by L700 (1400$), at least with the small Stax amps.


----------



## Whitigir

yates7592 said:


> Interesting, which is the best do you think for 007MK1, between GG or Carbon, when listening to rock, EDM, trance, ambient?



Honestly, it comes down to your personal preferences, do you like “tubes sound” or do you like “solid state sound” ?


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

JimJames said:


> Comparison between stax 300 and HD 700 or K712 or even ATH AD2000? I'm looking for my first pair of cans and might go straight to the electrostatic world



I wouldn't buy an AKG headphone, Samsung bought Harman and AKG got "Samsungized", and practically all AKG engineers left out and founded "Austrian Audio".
HD700 is a love/hate headphone (90% hate 10% love to be honest, for me, it's a blooper).
Didn't heard the AD2000 so can't comment on that one.
Stax L300 is neutral-ish but a bit bright, but nowhere near as bright as the HD700 or the K712, very nice headphone for the price.


----------



## JimJames (Nov 9, 2017)

BenF said:


> If you'll go straight for e-stats, you'll never realize how good they really are, since you'll have nothing to compare it to.
> 
> I've listened to HD700 in a store, and liked it a lot more than HD600/800S. It's super underrated, lost between two overrrated headphones.
> Here are my impressions straight from the store:
> ...


Thnx for the recommendation, I'll try the HD700 the next day and see what it's like. But yea I was thinking of going straight to e-stats because I tried a couple and I think that vibrant live sensation might be the way to go, so might aim straight to it; even though k712 low price is tempting...
Edit: Jesus are those 130$ for ****ing synthetic leather worth it??



ToroFiestaSol said:


> I wouldn't buy an AKG headphone, Samsung bought Harman and AKG got "Samsungized", and practically all AKG engineers left out and founded "Austrian Audio".
> HD700 is a love/hate headphone (90% hate 10% love to be honest, for me, it's a blooper).
> Didn't heard the AD2000 so can't comment on that one.
> Stax L300 is neutral-ish but a bit bright, but nowhere near as bright as the HD700 or the K712, very nice headphone for the price.


Ah that's a shame, I saw they stoped moved from Austria to Slovenia but didn't know the core of the akg team had left... Has there been any news on the decrease of quality from akg since? Is there still possible to find Austrian made k712 (the product image from a shop in Barcelona shows Austrian made)? Are the Slovenia made ones just like the chinese? And the last one, any info on this new brand Austrian Audio launching a pair of headphones anytime soon?


----------



## BenF

JimJames said:


> ...
> Edit: Jesus are those 130$ for ****ing synthetic leather worth it??


Absolutely


----------



## JimJames

BenF said:


> Absolutely



And why can't another pair of thick oval pads do the same job?


----------



## BenF (Nov 9, 2017)

JimJames said:


> And why can't another pair of thick oval pads do the same job?


Because
a) Stax L700 pads aren't oval
b) Stax L700 pads aren't thick
c) You can't just use any 3rd party pads without an adapter


----------



## SeaWo|f (Nov 9, 2017)

There have been quite a few people who have experimented with zmf pads on their omegas. Also I think Kerry made his own pads. I have seen oval zmf pads adapted to lamda a number of times. Ether pads also might be worth a look.


----------



## bearwarrior

yates7592 said:


> Interesting, which is the best do you think for 007MK1, between GG or Carbon, when listening to rock, EDM, trance, ambient?


 Like I said in the beginning, it is all about personal preference. I personally believe that both GG and Carbon can drive 007 MK1/009 very well. 

I will try to post more impression of the comparison between GG and Carbon in a few days.


----------



## Gjoel

This is gonna be a interesting evening. 

Got the chance to test HEK / Bryston BHA1 up against my 007mk2 / 353x. 

One set can stay and one need to go!

But I can already hear, it’s gonna be a hard choice.


----------



## Whitigir

Gjoel said:


> This is gonna be a interesting evening.
> 
> Got the chance to test HEK / Bryston BHA1 up against my 007mk2 / 353x.
> 
> ...


So hard, get the SusVara instead


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

JimJames said:


> Ah that's a shame, I saw they stoped moved from Austria to Slovenia but didn't know the core of the akg team had left... Has there been any news on the decrease of quality from akg since? Is there still possible to find Austrian made k712 (the product image from a shop in Barcelona shows Austrian made)? Are the Slovenia made ones just like the chinese? And the last one, any info on this new brand Austrian Audio launching a pair of headphones anytime soon?



I know they moved the production to Slovenia before the Samsung thing, don't know about if you can get Austrian or Slovenian units, my guess is that the Austrian units are older stock than the Slovenian ones, didn't see anything about China.
I dunno, I wouldn't touch one, if it breaks, who will repair it? Or how much time will it take to repair it? Maybe I'm wrong but the current situation doesn't inspire much confidence.
Search "Austrian Audio" with google, I remember reading a link where one of the main guys said that they will focus on microphones and headphones, plus measuring equipment, but don't know when they'll release products.


----------



## Gjoel

Hehe Whitigir, Would  need to rob a bank then.


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 9, 2017)

Ah well....if you want to properly driving your 007, you would also need to spend some pretty money.  Having a 007 and no good amp is like having a Ferrari for everything else, but the engine is of a Corolla .... LOL.  The same thing for SusVara though.  I was just teasing you, but you really need to have some beefy amps


----------



## JimJames

BenF said:


> Because
> a) Stax L700 pads aren't oval
> b) Stax L700 pads aren't thick
> c) You can't just use any 3rd party pads without an adapter



And how close would one get to that with the much cheaper socas mod?


----------



## BenF

JimJames said:


> And how close would one get to that with the much cheaper socas mod?


Not too close, most high quality pads are much thicker and have different shape - both of these affect sound.
I tried ZMF lambskin pads - made L300 sound more like a dynamic headphone.


----------



## Norabati

LaCuffia said:


> Try some Boards of Canada or Aphex Twin.   Not proper EDM, but what some call IDM.   "I" stands for "intelligent."


Agreed. Both have produced some very original material.


----------



## Ojisan

JimJames said:


> Comparison between stax 300 and HD 700 or K712 or even ATH AD2000? I'm looking for my first pair of cans and might go straight to the electrostatic world



I had AD2000X for few months. They were light and comfortable but the sound is really strange. The vocals/mids in your face really turned me off and I sold it. I love the natural sound of L300. If sound quality is your priority, I'd take L300.


----------



## JimJames

Ojisan said:


> I had AD2000X for few months. They were light and comfortable but the sound is really strange. The vocals/mids in your face really turned me off and I sold it. I love the natural sound of L300. If sound quality is your priority, I'd take L300.


Ah great! So how would you compare them in terms of comfort? Because I find the ATHs to be the most comfortable set of cans out there and I intend to use them for very long listening sessions, would I be bothered too much with the stax? Because I know that I could probably go all day with ATHs


----------



## Ojisan

JimJames said:


> Ah great! So how would you compare them in terms of comfort? Because I find the ATHs to be the most comfortable set of cans out there and I intend to use them for very long listening sessions, would I be bothered too much with the stax? Because I know that I could probably go all day with ATHs



Personally, I have more mileage in my HD600 and L300. I prefer the headband of HD600 and ATH is probably a tie. The AD2000X had a smallish earpiece that felt like an on-ear headphone. L300 has a rather wide leather headband (2.5in wide at the top) which is sometimes irritating. Earpads, like others, I find it too thin and flat. Could be hot during summer. I'm not a fan of (p)leather pads. I'm exploring options to make it more comfortable, maybe even DIY a headband. I wonder if anyone has successfully replaced everything but the earpiece... 

Despite all of that, I use L300 for long hours at my desk and often find myself immersed in music during a quiet evening listening. Music is what matters to me, comfort is next. Just my $0.01 worth


----------



## SeaWo|f

Some use things like this, it's not really intended for suspension style bands but it still works.

You could trim the head band then put that over it to hide that it's be cut.. If width is an issue


https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00L...nd+cushion&dpPl=1&dpID=51c7jAbRN5L&ref=plSrch


----------



## Ojisan

Sweater for Stax! I might try that for the heck of it!


----------



## weasel1979

Whitigir said:


> Ah well....if you want to properly driving your 007, you would also need to spend some pretty money.  Having a 007 and no good amp is like having a Ferrari for everything else, but the engine is of a Corolla .... LOL.  The same thing for SusVara though.  I was just teasing you, but you really need to have some beefy amps



Yes, it hurts to see a SR-007 with an 353x amp. It's just wrong


----------



## wuwhere

mulveling said:


> In that case, actually no. Omega II Mk I is an excellent match with KGSShv mini. I tend to forget to mention that, because I strongly prefer 009, and for the 009 or L700 I'd recommend the KGST over the mini any day. The mini tends to be a bit bright, but that works out wonderfully with O2 Mk I; great pairing.



I got a KGST, instead of a KGSSHV mini. I’ve always been a tube fan. I have an Audio Research D70 for my HE6, 4 Tung Sol 6550.


----------



## joseph69

wuwhere said:


> I got a KGST, instead of a KGSSHV mini. I’ve always been a tube fan. I have an Audio Research D70 for my HE6, 4 Tung Sol 6550.


How do you like it?


----------



## wuwhere

joseph69 said:


> How do you like it?



It’s on its way. I should have it sometime next week.


----------



## joseph69

wuwhere said:


> It’s on its way. I should have it sometime next week.


Congratulations.
I really enjoyed the KGST/009.


----------



## mulveling

wuwhere said:


> I got a KGST, instead of a KGSSHV mini. I’ve always been a tube fan. I have an Audio Research D70 for my HE6, 4 Tung Sol 6550.


Awesome! It'll still sound great with an O2 Mk I; the KGST also makes for a nice all-around 'stat amp. I'm a huge tube fan as well; currently running an Audio Research Ref 6 into Rogue Apollo tube monoblocks in my big rig.


----------



## Whitigir

Should we be expecting new Stax Headphones any time soon ? Hasn’t 009 been released for 5 years or so ?


----------



## wuwhere

mulveling said:


> Awesome! It'll still sound great with an O2 Mk I; the KGST also makes for a nice all-around 'stat amp. I'm a huge tube fan as well; currently running an Audio Research Ref 6 into Rogue Apollo tube monoblocks in my big rig.



Oh my!! 12 KT120s!!


----------



## Muinarc

Whitigir said:


> Should we be expecting new Stax Headphones any time soon ? Hasn’t 009 been released for 5 years or so ?



I was told by the Stax rep. at RMAF that something is due next year for their 80th anniversary.


----------



## Whitigir

Muinarc said:


> I was told by the Stax rep. at RMAF that something is due next year for their 80th anniversary.


 *Gasps* next year ? Like what month though ? I better start “saving”


----------



## wuwhere

joseph69 said:


> Congratulations.
> I really enjoyed the KGST/009.



Tnx!


----------



## wuwhere

Whitigir said:


> Should we be expecting new Stax Headphones any time soon ? Hasn’t 009 been released for 5 years or so ?



011?


----------



## Jones Bob

Muinarc said:


> I was told by the Stax rep. at RMAF that something is due next year for their 80th anniversary.



Let’s hope STAX takes this more seriously than their T-8000 effort.


----------



## oneguy

Whitigir said:


> *Gasps* next year ? Like what month though ? I better start “saving”


Maybe the month of their founding? Just speculation on my part though.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Due next year is extremely non committal. For all we know it's "due" because an internal document created when the 009 released set out when a 009 successor should hit the market. Doesn't mean development will be complete, or even that they have started working on one.
   That said in the relatively recent past they have been more of a headphone company than an amp one. Not sure how their amps were viewed way back. I would have a great deal of confidence in the quality of their next headphone release.


----------



## Whitigir

Don’t they have special amplifier in house to test and tune the headphones


----------



## JimL11

According to Scott Rifkin's Stax factory visit report in 2012 (do a Google search for Stax Factory visit):

Stax President Meguro:  "Until recently, we used the SRM-T1 as the base. It is a product with a long history. It started as the T1, then the T1S and the 006t. Currently, we are using 2 production models as references, the SRM-727A solid-state and SRM-007tA tube amps."  Perhaps they are also using the T8000 now.


----------



## Pahani

Whitigir said:


> Don’t they have special amplifier in house to test and tune the headphones





JimL11 said:


> According to Scott Rifkin's Stax factory visit report in 2012 (do a Google search for Stax Factory visit):
> 
> Stax President Meguro:  "Until recently, we used the SRM-T1 as the base. It is a product with a long history. It started as the T1, then the T1S and the 006t. Currently, we are using 2 production models as references, the SRM-727A solid-state and SRM-007tA tube amps."  Perhaps they are also using the T8000 now.



Aha, good eyes you both! I remembered seeing a "reference" amp in the factory tour post as well. Or perhaps it was a burn-in amp I'm remembering? I seem to remember (from that same article) each unit is pre-run in at the factory.

Just my recollection from seeing the article somewhere around a year ago.


----------



## nvfan

Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but has anyone tried replacing the SR-009 earpads with new ones? Do you just pull the earpads off?


----------



## joseph69

nvfan said:


> Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but has anyone tried replacing the SR-009 earpads with new ones? Do you just pull the earpads off?


No, they just don't get pulled off. There's a black dust screens which needs be removed by pinching it just enough so it can clear the ear pad to be pulled out (gently). Then, from the inside diameter of the ear pad, push the ear pads up a little and you'll see a black metal disc with 6 Phillips head screws going around the ear cup in a cross pattern (use a #1 Phillips screwdriver) to loosen these screws just enough to pull the excess material of the ear pads out from in-between the black metal disc/ear cup. The excess material of the pad is actually compressed in-between the disc/ear cup, this is how they're secured to the ear cup. You'll need to slip the excess material of the ear pads back in-between the black disc/ear cup (making sure it's fully inserted all the way around) and reassemble.

I did this by following @zolkis ear pad mods (do a search) to my 007 which is very similar to the 009 ear pad disassembly/assembly. I also used a very thin butter knife to insert the excess part of the ear pads back in-between the black disc/ear cup, and it was very easy to do with some patience. I also taped the end of the butter knife so I didn't scratch the black metal disc while reassembling. Don't slip with the Phillips screw driver!
Doing this is at your own risk only, good luck!


----------



## Norabati

Very useful. Thanks.


----------



## joseph69

Norabati said:


> Very useful. Thanks.


Thanks goes to @zolkis.


----------



## Whitigir

It sounds so complicated to me


----------



## statfi

Whitigir said:


> Don’t they have special amplifier in house to test and tune the headphones



What do you mean Stax does to "tune" headphones?  During development or manufacturing?

I *don't see* any "tuning knobs".  In my ignorance they make the stators as rigid and "airy" as possible, the diaphragm as light as possible, the ear cups as rigid as possible, etc.  Admittedly there is a tradeoff for the stators.  The design is so simple and pure, it just doesn't seem (to me) like, e.g., loudspeakers where there are a zillion knobs to turn.  E.g., have any of you made 'stats and tuned them?  (I need to go over at look at some DIY sites to see if they talk about this.)


----------



## JimL11 (Nov 11, 2017)

I don't think that Stax "tunes" each set of headphones, but I do think they do quality control on their headphones to confirm that they meet their standards, in other words, that they sound like they are supposed to. For example, with loudspeakers, the newly manufactured set is compared with a "standard" loudspeaker to make sure it sounds the same - the BBC used to do this by supplying their licensed manufacturers with a standard loudspeaker for comparison purposes.  Quad used to test each newly manufactured ESL-63 by setting it opposite a standard ESL-63, with a microphone half-way between them, and putting a pulsed signal into the standard and an opposite phase pulse signal into the new one.  If the signals cancelled at the microphone, the new speaker passed, if it didn't, it failed.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Speaking of headphones and tuning. If I am not mistaken mr speakers is now showing the production version on their stat. Anyone listen in Germany?


----------



## JimL11

SeaWo|f said:


> Speaking of headphones and tuning. If I am not mistaken mr speakers is now showing the production version on their stat. Anyone listen in Germany?



I dunno about that.  On their website, they list earpads for the electrostatic headphones - but not the headphones themselves!?!


----------



## SeaWo|f

It's been like that for quite a while, it was probably one of the first parts of the headphone finalized. What I had read from mr speakers was that the production version was going to be at the shows starting in November and unless something very unforseen happens sales in January. But we are dealing with the interwebs so until someone has Dan on video holding the production model confirming it we should consider it a rumor.


----------



## hpeter

l300 bright??
huh, there is no foam pillow like other hp do have....(to muffle the crap outta freq response curve)
just a sparse protector grid..  straight into ears..


----------



## edstrelow

statfi said:


> What do you mean Stax does to "tune" headphones?  During development or manufacturing?
> 
> I *don't see* any "tuning knobs".  In my ignorance they make the stators as rigid and "airy" as possible, the diaphragm as light as possible, the ear cups as rigid as possible, etc.  Admittedly there is a tradeoff for the stators.  The design is so simple and pure, it just doesn't seem (to me) like, e.g., loudspeakers where there are a zillion knobs to turn.  E.g., have any of you made 'stats and tuned them?  (I need to go over at look at some DIY sites to see if they talk about this.)



I used to work in a electrical engineering department that made runs of electrostatic drivers for various research projects.  They regularly tested the frequency responses.  Some units ended up being off spec and were discarded. I suspect Stax does this and may also try to chose drivers as similar as possible for any particular headphone.  I don't know that they specifically tune their products.


----------



## astrostar59

edstrelow said:


> I used to work in a electrical engineering department that made runs of electrostatic drivers for various research projects.  They regularly tested the frequency responses.  Some units ended up being off spec and were discarded. I suspect Stax does this and may also try to chose drivers as similar as possible for any particular headphone.  I don't know that they specifically tune their products.



Maybe not individually only check they are to spec. But they DO design to a signature. It is absolutely obvious the 007s have treble roll off and a mid bass bump, so IMO was designed to be forgiving to a typical digital front end. And the 009 has more transparency and probably a flatter treble response. So to me, the next question is, what will they do with the 011? Can they get the speed and soundstage / details of the 009 but be a bit more forgiving at the same time. Now that would be something!


----------



## wuwhere

astrostar59 said:


> Maybe not individually only check they are to spec. But they DO design to a signature. It is absolutely obvious the 007s have treble roll off and a mid bass bump, so IMO was designed to be forgiving to a typical digital front end. And the 009 has more transparency and probably a flatter treble response. So to me, the next question is, what will they do with the 011? Can they get the speed and soundstage / details of the 009 but be a bit more forgiving at the same time. Now that would be something!



That would be nice, they can just call it 009 V2, same price.


----------



## Pokemonn (Nov 13, 2017)

bad news for Stax is that there are still a lot of bad recordings which have digital glare and less information.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

I wouldn't mind a more expensive SR-010 with all the technicalities possible but smooth and natural at the same time, something that ends the 009/007 debate, but looking at the SRM-T8000 (the amp that "had to be better than the T2", their own words) makes me think it will be worse than 009/007. I really hope to be wrong.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Different thing entirely with the amp. 

But they seem to be going in a direction that puts detail, speed and air as the most important factors in their headphones. I would expect more of the same from the next flagship. Especially after all the praise they have gotten from reviews and media over the years with the 009 even if the community remains divided.  They will likely continue to go down that path at the expense of musicality until a breaking point is reached and they are called out on it.


----------



## bearwarrior

I just hope the new flagship will not cost more than 009. 009 is already very expensive.


----------



## joseph69

bearwarrior said:


> I just hope the new flagship will not cost more than 009. 009 is already very expensive.


Nowadays, the 009 is one of the less expensive flagships models.


----------



## Whitigir

joseph69 said:


> Nowadays, the 009 is one of the less expensive flagships models.


That is why we are all afraid of what may come next ! Well, if anything happened, everyone can still have a cheap SusVara


----------



## joseph69

Whitigir said:


> Well, if anything happened, everyone can still have a cheap SusVara


This is exactly what I mean. When the 009 came out they were $5K+. Now their $3.5K+/- (depending where you buy from) so if they go back to their original cost, that wouldn't be too bad.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol (Nov 14, 2017)

That's because of yen's value, price in yen is still the same.
Now Stax adjusted the price difference with the new Lambda series (15-20% more expensive than in JP, which is reasonable, because here in EU it includes the 19% VAT), probably the newer badass models will follow the same pricing scheme.


----------



## georgep

joseph69 said:


> This is exactly what I mean. When the 009 came out they were $5K+. Now their $3.5K+/- (depending where you buy from) so if they go back to their original cost, that wouldn't be too bad.



Where are you able to get these new for under $4k with PriceJapan no longer in business? Just wondering if there are some new players on the scene.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol (Nov 14, 2017)

georgep said:


> Where are you able to get these new for under $4k with PriceJapan no longer in business? Just wondering if there are some new players on the scene.


Amazon.co.jp 
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B004W1S0BY/ref=s9_dcacsd_dcoop_bw_c_x_2_w

338000 yen = 2977 usd = 2536 euro
Sum taxes and customs, and still is under 4k usd


----------



## joseph69

georgep said:


> Where are you able to get these new for under $4k with PriceJapan no longer in business? Just wondering if there are some new players on the scene.


As I mentioned (depending where you buy from). Here are a couple of options. Not sure if you'd want to deal with these sellers, but you are protected via eBay/PayPal. Being from Japan, I would think the warranty/repairs (if needed) that one would have the same headaches as buying from PJ, I don't know? I bought my 009 from PJ, and thankfully I haven't had any issues, so I'm not speaking from experience, just going by what I've read on the forums when buying from Japan...and I've also read the same when buying from the US in some cases.


----------



## Whitigir

If Justin is an authorized Stax dealer in the USA, then he has it listed for less than 4K 
https://www.headamp.com/order/stax-sr-009/


----------



## georgep

I have clearly been out of touch. Those are some pretty good prices.


----------



## bearwarrior

Anyway, we are looking forward to seeing something new.


----------



## hpeter

ToroFiestaSol said:


> , but looking at the SRM-T8000 (the amp that "had to be better than the T2", their own words) makes me think it will be worse than 009/007. I really hope to be wrong.


it´s tedious, how people complain all the time.  you say that amp sucks, literally.
had you chance to listen in person? 
me not, actually i never heard any stax amp.


----------



## SeaWo|f

If it's a tweaked mk2 of the 009 then I could see the same price or a slight bump. If this is a whole new headphone. I expect they will want to slot it in above while maintaining the 009 price. At least that seems the industry trend. Some companies just seem to double the last flagship price others fluctuate between that and a 50% bump.


----------



## joseph69

Whitigir said:


> If Justin is an authorized Stax dealer in the USA, then he has it listed for less than 4K
> https://www.headamp.com/order/stax-sr-009/


Even better fo the US.
I purchased my 007 from HeadAmp. At the time when I purchased my 009 from PJ they were +/-$1200.00 to purchase from the US.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol (Nov 14, 2017)

hpeter said:


> it´s tedious, how people complain all the time.  you say that amp sucks, literally.
> had you chance to listen in person?
> me not, actually i never heard any stax amp.



Lol
You don't need to ride a Koenigsegg Agera to know that is faster than a Toyota Corolla, very big difference between a T2 and a slightly better SRM-717 AKA SRM-8000.
Btw I've heard all the current Stax amps (and also the SRM-717) with exception of the SRM-T8000, and a KGSSHV Mini is miles away of any of those, same with the Cavalli amp, which sounds even worse than a SRM-353X with the Lambdas (fuzzy, slow, blurry, glossed over).
A Carbon is a big improvement over what I have now (KGSSHV Mini), and the DIY T2 is even better than a Carbon according to everyone, you don't need to be a genius or a side by side comparison to know that the SRM-8000 is miles away from a T2.

To put things into context, I highly recommend you to read the 2012 Stax interview on Head-Fi, Stax said that the new flagship amp (SRM-8000) had to be better than the T2...I wouldn't complain so much or have such low hopes for the new headphones if they didn't make such a bold statement and then dissapoint with a slighlty refined SRM-717.


----------



## astrostar59

ToroFiestaSol said:


> I wouldn't mind a more expensive SR-010 with all the technicalities possible but smooth and natural at the same time, something that ends the 009/007 debate, but looking at the SRM-T8000 (the amp that "had to be better than the T2", their own words) makes me think it will be worse than 009/007. I really hope to be wrong.


Agree, but they are better at making HPs than amps IMO. And they have more real competition now with the Abyss, LCD-4, Focal Utopia, HE-1000, Susvara, Shangri-La and the HE-1. All those were not around 3-4 years ago so the high end HP landscape has change somewhat.


----------



## kevin gilmore (Nov 14, 2017)

A couple of weeks ago I repaired a real original T2 for a member here.
It weighs 49 lbs. And shipping it back was a major pain. Power consumption is 210 watts

A T8000 weighs 16 lbs and has a power consumption of 45 watts (plus 5 watts if you plug in one of the adapter cards which are still not available)

I know that weight is an odd choice as a way to compare and measure amplifiers but the T8000 does not have the voltage swing, output current, or speed of the T2. Not even in the same ballpark.

The T8000 has only 1/5 the slew rate and 1/3 the voltage range of the T2. Its not a replacement for a T2, just not possible in a box that size.


----------



## hpeter

ToroFiestaSol said:


> Lol
> You don't need to ride a Koenigsegg Agera to know that is faster than a Toyota Corolla, very big difference between a T2 and a slightly better SRM-717 AKA SRM-8000.
> Btw I've heard all the current Stax amps (and also the SRM-717) with exception of the SRM-T8000, and a KGSSHV Mini is miles away of any of those, same with the Cavalli amp, which sounds even worse than a SRM-353X with the Lambdas (fuzzy, slow, blurry, glossed over).
> A Carbon is a big improvement over what I have now (KGSSHV Mini), and the DIY T2 is even better than a Carbon according to everyone, you don't need to be a genius or a side by side comparison to know that the SRM-8000 is miles away from a T2.
> ...



you picked one thing, (which probably you prefer - *speed*) 

but other person doing review of those cars, would prefer something else - ability to drive  trough rough road, of seat comfort (some people have back pain in hard seats..); serviceability, longevity, mileage, storage space....
very easily your koenisegg could fail in test, if we switch persons

*i hope you understood, what i am  saying -- each person reviewing product, takes different things important..*


----------



## Whitigir

It is funny how Stax named the T2, and then another T8000.  That is like T7998 away from the original T2 Flagship


----------



## SeaWo|f

Maybe they are terminator fans


----------



## Whitigir

I don’t think there is model Terminator T8000 LOL.  Unless you meant they loved Terminator T2 character and so they made their legendary product after that name


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

hpeter said:


> you picked one thing, (which probably you prefer - *speed*)
> 
> but other person doing review of those cars, would prefer something else - ability to drive  trough rough road, of seat comfort (some people have back pain in hard seats..); serviceability, longevity, mileage, storage space....
> very easily your koenisegg could fail in test, if we switch persons
> ...



LOL
Please, tell it is a dream and I'm not reading this answer
I've picked only one thing: *PERFORMANCE, *read clearly* PERFORMANCE*

Of course the T2 has compromises, can you travel with one in your pocket to listen to music while you're in the metro going to work?
Can you go with the Koenigsegg thru a dessert? No, it's no made for that, it's made to be the fastest car in the world, and it succeeds at it's goal.

All that compromises, like for example it does not fit in your pocket like the latest Iphone, are for one thing: *PERFORMANCE.
*
Paying the amount of money that a T2 costs, you want the best performance possible with electrostatic headphones, nothing more, nothing less, you don't buy it to make your breakfast or to use Siri.
Please, be more intelligent, don't use the reviewer example, will you give a 2 star review to a T2 because it produces heat and doesn't have android? C'mon.
*I hope you understood what I'm saying.
*


----------



## BenF

T2, T8000...
Here is my Stax stack:


----------



## Tinkerer

So did that regulated PSU come with the Airbow amp or did you get it separate?


----------



## BenF

Tinkerer said:


> So did that regulated PSU come with the Airbow amp or did you get it separate?


Airbow does have their own power supply - PAC-253, but it's 300$ and single output.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC5...-noise-DC-linear-regulated/1000004386010.html
I asked them to reverse polarity, provide second cable and upgrade to Talema.
Measured it with a multimeter - 12.06v
Running two amplifiers from it now.


----------



## FLguy

BenF said:


> Airbow does have their own power supply - PAC-253, but it's 300$ and single output.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC5...-noise-DC-linear-regulated/1000004386010.html
> I asked them to reverse polarity, provide second cable and upgrade to Talema.
> ...


Thanks for the pointer. Question - why reverse polarity?


----------



## BenF

FLguy said:


> Thanks for the pointer. Question - why reverse polarity?


Because 252S/253S is using reverse polarity - negative center.


----------



## FLguy

BenF said:


> Because 252S/253S is using reverse polarity - negative center.


Ah. Do you know whether that is the case of all of the Stax brand amps?


----------



## BenF

FLguy said:


> Ah. Do you know whether that is the case of all of the Stax brand amps?


Only the ones using DC power adapters - the small ones (252S/253S).


----------



## Ojisan

@BenF Very cool, I didn't know Airbow had a Stax mod. I know they do a lot of Teac and Marantz mods. Maybe this is discussed elsewhere but what type of improvement does 253S bring over stock 252S? Airbow's description of 253S makes pretty substantial claims about 252S (252S being superior to higher end models despite being lower power, no caps in signal chain, class A, better than T8000...really?, etc) I'm tempted now to butcher my 252S as a step in DIY...


----------



## BenF (Nov 16, 2017)

Ojisan said:


> @BenF Very cool, I didn't know Airbow had a Stax mod. I know they do a lot of Teac and Marantz mods. Maybe this is discussed elsewhere but what type of improvement does 253S bring over stock 252S? Airbow's description of 253S makes pretty substantial claims about 252S (252S being superior to higher end models despite being lower power, no caps in signal chain, class A, better than T8000...really?, etc) I'm tempted now to butcher my 252S as a step in DIY...


Actually, Stax makes 253S, they just slap Airbow's logo on it.
It's exactly the same as 252S, except it uses better parts:
_"In order to maximize the sound quality of SRM-252S with this superior qualities, SRM-253S is exchanging almost all parts important to sound quality. Starting with "Black Gate," which has already been fully manufactured, the very small capacity condenser used for feedback (phase correction) is filled with AIRBOW-like commitment that enhances its sound quality, such as replacing it with a one-thousand-yen Mica capacitor."_

Obviously, comparisons to T8000 are ridiculous.
However, I wouldn't be surprised if Lambdas sound better on 252S/253S than on T2/T8000, because that what they are for.
Larger amps are tuned for 007/009.

Somebody (Spritzer?) wrote once that 353 is basically the same as 252, only it has a better power supply.
So I was hoping that adding a linear power supply to 252S/253S would alleviate the need for a large amp until I'll buy 007/009.
Will take me a few days to make conclusions.
One thing for sure - there is no huge difference, neither between 252S/253S, nor between regular power adapter/LPS.
There may be differences though...


----------



## georgep

BenF said:


> ...
> 
> Somebody (Spritzer?) wrote once that 353 is basically the same as 252, only it has a better power supply.
> So I was hoping that adding a linear power supply to 252S/253S would alleviate the need for a large amp until I'll buy 007/009.
> ...



Spritzer would not have stated that as the two amplifiers are VERY different. Also, Lamdas sound much better on the T2 than lesser stax or other DIY amps.


----------



## soren_brix

BenF said:


> ...
> 
> Somebody (Spritzer?) wrote once that 353 is basically the same as 252, only it has a better power supply.
> So I was hoping that adding a linear power supply to 252S/253S would alleviate the need for a large amp until I'll buy 007/009.
> ...





kevin gilmore said:


> ...
> 
> I will have to look at the schematics again, but the 252 and 323
> are exactly the same circuit part for part value for value.
> ...


----------



## JimL11

Well, based on KG's comments, I would say that the circuits are identical EXCEPT for the output stage.  According to him, the 323 runs 5.5 mA per device (11 mA per channel), whereas I believe the 252 runs around 1.2 mA per device or 2.4 mA/channel - it just isn't big enough to have enough heat sink to be running the output devices at 11 mA per channel.  This is reflected in the difference in power draw: the 252 is specified at 4 watts power draw whereas the 323 is specified at 30 watts.  Some of the difference is due to the high efficiency PS in the 252, but not all.

So if you crank the volume the 252 will run out of current much faster than the 323, meaning it will distort at lower volumes.  Depending on how loudly you listen, this may or may not be a problem.


----------



## BenF (Nov 16, 2017)

soren_brix said:


> kevin gilmore said:
> 
> 
> > I will have to look at the schematics again, but the 252 and 323  are exactly the same circuit part for part value for value.
> ...


Thank you! That's the exact post I was referring to!


----------



## Ojisan

Thanks all, this is great info. So much knowledge here! 

So it sounds like there is quite a bit of design overhead with 252 such that there's room to change bias, PS, and heatsink with the same board to create something more capable? I'd love to build one of the amps on the other forum but it's been overwhelming to catch up, given the pace people are producing revisions etc...


----------



## BenF

JimL11 said:


> Well, based on KG's comments, I would say that the circuits are identical EXCEPT for the output stage.  According to him, the 323 runs 5.5 mA per device (11 mA per channel), whereas I believe the 252 runs around 1.2 mA per device or 2.4 mA/channel - it just isn't big enough to have enough heat sink to be running the output devices at 11 mA per channel.  This is reflected in the difference in power draw: the 252 is specified at 4 watts power draw whereas the 323 is specified at 30 watts.  Some of the difference is due to the high efficiency PS in the 252, but not all.
> 
> So if you crank the volume the 252 will run out of current much faster than the 323, meaning it will distort at lower volumes.  Depending on how loudly you listen, this may or may not be a problem.


252S/253S has plenty of power for the Lambdas, there is really no need for more power for L300/500/700.
009 and (especially) 007 are a different story.


----------



## Ojisan

I can agree on getting enough volume. I have never gone past 12 o'clock myself. I tend to think though that giving it more juice might produce more body to the sound which would be nice.


----------



## soren_brix

BenF said:


> 252S/253S has plenty of power for the Lambdas, there is really no need for more power for L300/500/700.
> 009 and (especially) 007 are a different story.


As @georgep mentions, the amps have very different PSU's; the 212/252 has brick feeding a small boost-converter, whereas the 323/353 has the Stax standard simple un-regulated PSU - having much faster amps (like the DIY T2 @georgep  points to) also improves the SQ from the Lambdas even though they are easy to drive


----------



## yates7592

Is it possible to convert voltage on SRM-007t amp from 100V Japan to 230V EU? I seem to remember reading somewhere it was not possible to change from 100V on Stax units, but hopefully somebody here knows the full story.


----------



## AudioThief

Greetings STAX experts. 

I am eagerly awaiting my first foray into e-stats - The SRS 3100 system. It is on the way in the mail. 

I was wondering if someone had any experience with the following headphones and could offer the similarities/differences:

Qualia 010
MDR-SA5000
Audio Technica W5000/L3000/3000ANV

Thanks a lot!


----------



## mulveling (Nov 17, 2017)

I used to own the Qualia 010 (and L3000 Leatherhead and W5000); great headphone, but weird midrange. I felt it was the only dynamic headphone that can even compete with a decently amped Stax in aspects like treble, detail, speed. But the Stax midrange is much better, actually -- VERY natural. That said, I haven't heard the 3100 system. I run a 009 w/ BHSE, and prefer it to any dynamic I've ever heard. If you liked the 010 and SA5000 it's definitely good to try Stax, but know that you can scale it a LOT from your starting point of a 3100 system.

I thought the W5000 was borderline awful, exacerbated by fit issues (to be fair the fit issues can apply to 010 too). I loved and still own an L3000, though it's a flawed gem -- very meaty sound, and no other AT sounds remotely like it. I wonder how much of that's due to the leather covering. Purk really likes the SA5000 once re-cabled with a black dragon, but the Qualia is better.


----------



## Whitigir

The reason why Purk like Sa5000 better is because he could re-cables it, and he doesn’t want to touch Q10 or R10 in recabling.  They are timeless piece of equipments .  I love Sa5000, and Stax 009 + T2 is something on another level, not to mention 009 and Carbon or GG is already ground breaking


----------



## mulveling

The Qualia 010 has lemo connectors and is easy to recable -- it benefits from a Black Dragon, at least. Though I thought it also sounded good with its stock cable. My memory of the SA5000 is that it needs some help to add some warmth and flesh to its sound. And then there's the newer Sony headphones; they're way too dark/muddy stock, and benefit from a silver cable to help open them up.


----------



## thinker (Nov 17, 2017)

Got from Phenomenon the new Libratum with the new driver V3 .Just let you know i like it more than 009 and HE-1 .The presentation i just everything you ever want from a headphone.I just hope this phone would some day be presented at Canjam ,then people will know.


----------



## joseph69

Congratulations.
Can I ask where you purchased them from?
This damn hobby just doesn't stop, so of course I'm interested in hearing them.

Thanks


----------



## Whitigir

My questions would be, what are you using to drive it in comparison to 009 and He1


----------



## wuwhere

How much are the Phenomenons? How long is the wait time?


----------



## joseph69

Whitigir said:


> My questions would be, what are you using to drive it in comparison to 009 and He1


I though of this after my post, but I would like to know this as well.
I also wouldn't want to damage my BHSE if there were any possibilities of this happening with the Phenomenon?


----------



## thinker (Nov 17, 2017)

I have the feeling the designer put his whole life to this project and he is serious about it.These are very emotional phones and for me they present life/reality as it is.You hear every detail from bass to highs and somehow it's feather light , almost spiritual presentation.These are easy to drive and are ready to play in instance ,no charging  time here.The price is about 1400 USD


----------



## joseph69 (Nov 17, 2017)

thinker said:


> The price is about 1400 USD


Thanks for the estimated cost. Could you share what you're driving them with as well where you ordered from, please?

Thanks


----------



## thinker

Dima is the designer and adress is

phominykh@rambler.ru

i hope this guy gets respect what he is doing


----------



## joseph69

thinker said:


> Dima is the designer and adress is
> 
> phominykh@rambler.ru
> 
> i hope this guy gets respect what he is doing


Thank you.


----------



## Whitigir

I am still waiting to know what amplifier is driving the headphones.  Woo WA8 ? IPad ? MSB ?


----------



## thinker

i know the best stat amps out there and owned many of them i have tried these with 252,353 and Transdyn (lot of power) not much difference here i think because these are easy to drive.I like to say these phones take the command over amps somehow.These phones have a strange spiritual signature wich makes everything relative.I have been sitting silent in my chair hours just listening.


----------



## wuwhere

thinker said:


> I have the feeling the designer put his whole life to this project and he is serious about it.These are very emotional phones and for me they present life/reality as it is.You hear every detail from bass to highs and somehow it's feather light , almost spiritual presentation.These are easy to drive and are ready to play in instance ,no charging  time here.The price is about 1400 USD



I’d like to buy a pair, seriously. Cheaper than an 009.


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 17, 2017)

May be that is why you think it is better than 009, because you never really pushed the 009 into it full capability.  The creator of the Headphones you shared simply being inspired by Stax 009 and 007, so he set his goal to create something that slot within these 2, and that is what you have

009 was excellent with Carbon and Grounded Grid, And yet....it becomes “unbelievable” with T2


----------



## paradoxper

This spiritualism hoopla sounds a whole lot like snake oil. Get a pair in the hands of people with real TOTL references.


----------



## wuwhere

A loaner would be nice.


----------



## thinker

I have heard 009 with BHSE and HE-1 .Zolkis is getting to hear these tomorrow and he probably will comment something.He gets he's pair in couples of weeks.
No snake oil this time ,this is real


----------



## SeaWo|f

FWIW spritzer ordered a pair and tested them. He posted his impressions where he normally does.


----------



## jgazal

thinker said:


> i hope this guy gets respect what he is doing





thinker said:


> No snake oil this time ,this is real



Are they made in clean rooms?


----------



## JimL11

jgazal said:


> Are they made in clean rooms?



Just as important, do they have impermeable dust covers?  Without good dust covers, it doesn't matter if they're made in a clean room as they won't stay clean - the charged membrane will attract dust.


----------



## Whitigir

I think the creator mentioned that the membrane is graphenes.  It repel dusts and humidity, and he specifically told me that it does not have dust shield


----------



## paradoxper

Graphite and nylon to be exact.


----------



## jgazal

Whitigir said:


> I think the creator mentioned that the membrane is graphenes.  It repel dusts and humidity, and he specifically told me that it does not have dust shield



Graphene?

How can that be?

https://investorintel.com/sectors/t...cale-sheet-graphene-part-one-making-graphene/


----------



## 1note

thinker said:


> i know the best stat amps out there and owned many of them i have tried these with 252,353 and Transdyn (lot of power) not much difference here i think because these are easy to drive.I like to say these phones take the command over amps somehow.These phones have a strange spiritual signature wich makes everything relative.I have been sitting silent in my chair hours just listening.



From my experience I would question whether anything even half-decent would not respond to better amplification.


----------



## Whitigir

I really have no clues, but from what I was told, I decided not to purchase the headphones.  I stay with Stax, and I just came to read Spritzer impression on the Headphones, and wow....luckily I did not touch it.  Anyways, back to the blissful 009 and T2 , and eagerly waiting next Stax successor


----------



## JimL11 (Nov 17, 2017)

Whitigir said:


> I think the creator mentioned that the membrane is graphenes.  It repel dusts and humidity, and he specifically told me that it does not have dust shield





paradoxper said:


> Graphite and nylon to be exact.



I'm skeptical.  As far as I know there is nothing about graphite, graphene or nylon that repels dust, and considering that dust particles may have a random ionic charge, and the membrane is charged to around 580 volts positive, nearby dust may be attracted simply by electrostatic forces. This isn't rocket science - the original Quad electrostatic had dust covers on its panels, and all the recent Stax headphones do as well.


----------



## SeaWo|f

The issues with humidity that spritzer described would be the most frustrating thing about them to me. 

The do have a nice look though.


----------



## joseph69

The question is, does the V3.0 address the humidity issue and come with dust covers?


----------



## JimL11

BTW, as far as I am aware, graphene is just starting to be used commercially, so I doubt that that is what forms the membrane. More likely a mis-translation.


----------



## paradoxper

The dude (phd40: MOT Phenomenon), specifically stated not graphene, graphite-based and nylon.


----------



## JimL11

Hmm, according to my Google search, nylon is hygroscopic, i.e. it tends to absorb moisture.  Which could affect the conduction properties of the membrane.


----------



## thinker

joseph69 said:


> The question is, does the V3.0 address the humidity issue and come with dust covers?


The V3.0 driver doesn't have dust issues, this problem is solved.Spritzers unit is different from these i have heard both verssions and these are far far better.


----------



## soren_brix

thinker said:


> The V3.0 driver doesn't have dust issues, this problem is solved.Spritzers unit is different from these i have heard both verssions and these are far far better.





thinker said:


> On the other website the guy who got the Libratum has the older version of the diaphragm, the Canorum version 2 has newest diaphragm and is not as critical about charging and also other issues have been solved.I get the report as soon i make comparisons with other Staxes.The Libratum version 1 i had 2 days on loan in my home and it was very promising.The owner of the Libratum version 1 has made recently some adjustments and i was educated that it is now excellent.I'm going to hear it soon again and compare it to the new Canorum.All Libratum phones from now on come with the new diaphgram.What i have compared so far SR-009 /007 will have hard times ahead.Not sure  i'm allowed to show the Libratum version 1 frequency response but anyway here it is ,the newer frequency response curve should be even better.





thinker said:


> we are testing and comparing end of August Phenomenon Libratum/Canorum and 007mk1 ,maybe i report something ,phones will
> tested with Quad Transdyn amplifier



care to disclose your involvement in this thing? Back in august you stated "we are testing" ... I guess you are not just a happy customer, but rather part of the trade and wants to become a happy trader? ...or did the "education" your received extend further?


----------



## thinker

soren_brix said:


> care to disclose your involvement in this thing? Back in august you stated "we are testing" ... I guess you are not just a happy customer, but rather part of the trade and wants to become a happy trader? ...or did the "education" your received extend further?



I have nothing to do with this company,only customer.The Canorum the oval shape model i send back to Russia and it gets new drivers installed.


----------



## soren_brix

thinker said:


> I have nothing to do with this company,only customer.The Canorum the oval shape model i send back to Russia and it gets new drivers installed.


so you are just relaying information from the manufactor, as I assume you didn't do the fq-response yourself (since it was publish without the 007/009 you reference) or have insights into how the dust and moisture problems was actually solved?


----------



## chinsettawong

If the stators are well insulated, it is OK that there is no dust cover for dust protection.  However, if you're using the headphones in the middle of summer and the sweat gets into the driver, what will happen?


----------



## joseph69

chinsettawong said:


> However, if you're using the headphones in the middle of summer and the sweat gets into the driver, what will happen?


----------



## zolkis

Whitigir said:


> I think the creator mentioned that the membrane is graphenes.  It repel dusts and humidity, and he specifically told me that it does not have dust shield



I wonder on what date that statement was made. I've been discussing drivers a lot with the maker during the past year, including dismissing the dust cover (for much improved dynamics), but he did end up using dust cover membranes. 
At least in my Libratum v2 the drivers were protected. They sounded and measured completely neutral, but I wasn't too happy for the small midrange bump it had (though less than the 009). It took me a while to improve the pads so that they start to truly sing, and then they were so good it was incredible, like tears-level good. I didn't want any change to them any more, but unfortunately the diaphragms were the slow charging ones, and also developed an issue, a low volume random static noise. I had to send them back for the v3 stator + diaphragm change, it's being done free of charge, except for shipping. While I am sure they won't have the same problems, but whether will they have the same sound I kind of doubt. The maker claims they are better now. Let's see.

For any case, the rate at which these headphones improved between versions is impressive, the guy definitely knows his science. They already sound very good, somewhere between the Stax 007 and 009. The Libratum 2 was like a more open 007 Mk1, or a 009 without treble issues, but less sensitive than either (less sonic problems as well). The Canorum 2 was more like more open 007 Mk2. The difference between the Libratum and Canorum is similar to the difference between the 007 Mk1 and Mk2. You need very powerful amps with these, and the higher the bias the better (up to 800V).

So the standing question now is how durable and consistent the headphones will be. Only time will tell, but I am sure the maker will take good care of the issues. He is knowledgeable and trustable.
I am definitely thrilled there are new players on the market, the MrSpeakers ES, the Phenomenon headphones, and hopefully more to come. It is also impressive the newcomers catch with the 007/009 sound quality level. I don't think Stax has to fear disruption, but tough competition, yes.


----------



## zolkis

thinker said:


> I have the feeling the designer put his whole life to this project and he is serious about it.These are very emotional phones and for me they present life/reality as it is.You hear every detail from bass to highs and somehow it's feather light , almost spiritual presentation.These are easy to drive and are ready to play in instance ,no charging  time here.The price is about 1400 USD



The maker told me that price barely covers the materials + outsourced parts costs, not even counting the real hours. The titanium frame, headband with adjustable pressure, diaphragm development etc all cost money. Basically you've got a prototype at self-cost level, for beta-testing and possibly frequent updates. Once this becomes stable and productized (imagine QC costs and the machinery needed to keep QC consistent) I expect commercial price will be way much more.


----------



## soren_brix

@thinker , @zolkis  all very touching and  moving ... gives the impression that his business is all based on altruism ... probably not.
Anyways, you are, as far as I have noticed, the only one praising his stuff; it might be fantastic, or might not be so fantasico - at the other site one has raised some critique, and the response is: "Oh, but he has the old, old model, the one I have here is newest, and so mucho, mucho maximus über better; as in jaw dropping, tears running down my cheeks, better, I can't move, barely type in this, is as good it is  ...
  ...some russian comes around and does what STAX, who has been leading the business for decades, apparently cannot  ...


----------



## thinker

I did a small sample how Phenomenon Libratum sounds


----------



## SeaWo|f

So that video proves what? That they output sound.. 

Look I think everyone here would be over joyed at the introduction of competition to stax. The problem is when your review of the headphones sounds like an evangelist, you give up credibility. 

The one trusted source we have actually liked their sound but presented several issues that needed to be solved. Which is totally to be expected for a product in development.


----------



## soren_brix

thinker said:


> I did a small sample how Phenomenon Libratum sounds



Well, don't know Kenny Rankin, (the grown adult man, weeping his way through some kitsch poem) but it certainly sounds like he exhausted that particular genre long before 1st verse came to an end ...


----------



## bearFNF

I'll stick with my 007 and 009, thanks.

I am interested in the MrSpeakers estat coming, though.


----------



## Whitigir

soren_brix said:


> @thinker , @zolkis  all very touching and  moving ... gives the impression that his business is all based on altruism ... probably not.
> Anyways, you are, as far as I have noticed, the only one praising his stuff; it might be fantastic, or might not be so fantasico - at the other site one has raised some critique, and the response is: "Oh, but he has the old, old model, the one I have here is newest, and so mucho, mucho maximus über better; as in jaw dropping, tears running down my cheeks, better, *I can't move, barely type in this*, is as good it is  ...
> ...*some russian comes around and does what STAX, who has been leading the business for decades, apparently cannot*  ...



LOL! Can’t say any better than this




bearFNF said:


> I'll stick with my 007 and 009, thanks.
> 
> I am interested in the MrSpeakers estat coming, though.



Yeah, I agree  .  Even so, I still better save up for Stax upcoming rather than...cheesing around to just spend more money in the end


----------



## zolkis

Defensive talk, guys. Yeah,  I guess more owners needed. Only Spritzer and me had Libratum v2, only thinker has Libratum v3. But why this hatred? I still have Stax headphones, and so does thinker. Take a break.


----------



## joseph69 (Nov 18, 2017)

zolkis said:


> Only Spritzer and me had Libratum v2, only thinker has Libratum v3.


Do any of you  know the changes to the v3 from the v2?
Also, @thinker, why did you send yours back, just for the upgraded driver?

PS: I have no hatred toward any new headphones, especially being I haven't heard them for myself. I'm actually got in touch with Dima and I'm waiting for the total cost for the LIBRATUM + shipping, which is why I'm asking these questions.


----------



## zolkis

Technically, new stators, new diaphragm, new pads. About the sound maybe later.


----------



## thinker (Nov 19, 2017)

Also, @thinker, why did you send yours back, just for the upgraded driver?

Yes.Dima said he can make it even better maybe new drivers V3.0 ?


----------



## zolkis

It is too early to say anything about the Libratum v3 sound, especially when it seems to trigger mockery, but a short listen to thinker's v3 was promising: a very fluid, balanced, relaxed sound, no issues I could find, it is both neutral and musical, with an especially beautiful and smooth midrange. However, sensitivity is lower than even the 007, it definitely needs powerful amp, otherwise on lesser amps it might sound less dynamic. 

It reminded me to the 009 more than to the the 007 Mk1, but without any treble issues. I haven't heard the MrSpeakers ES, but based on others opinions it seems they are of similar sound character with the v3, and share lower sensitivity, too. From memory, my version of Libratum v2 perhaps had more excitement, but v3 is definitely more correct. Somehow the v3 reminded me to the Orpheus 2 listening experience, at least the sound character was similar: there is a beautiful midrange without any shouting anywhere, a treble very slightly rolled off rather than over-present, a bass that is deep, impactful and controlled. However, when I just listen to instruments, my 007 Mk1 (with modded pads) feels just a little more alive than the v3 (and the 009).

I'd say the 007 Mk1, 009 and Libratum V3 are on a similar quality level, with different gripes: the 007 Mk1 is a bit shelved down on treble and needs quality power to be driven properly, the 009 has some treble issues on most amps and needs expensive amps to sound good, and the Libratum v3 needs a lot more power than even the 007 Mk1. The good news is that I think the Libratum v3 will sound good from a good transistor amp, too (I prefer tube amps, especially the BHSE with the 009 and 007, and to my ears the 009 sound has a tendency to harden up on transistor amps). 

Maybe wait for a few months to see how stable and consistent the V3 is, but sound quality wise there is nothing I could complain about at the moment. Canorum v2 was perhaps a bit more dynamic, but not as neutral. If one likes the 007 Mk2 more, would likely prefer the Canorum (now v2, or in the future, v3), and if one likes the 009 more, would likely prefer the Libratum v3. Micro- and macrodynamic capabilities of the 009 and v3 are similar, but the 009 is far more efficient. Anyway, the Stax mafia should be happy for new opportunities in amp making (on an unrelated note, I dislike the T8000: imho it is hard sounding and brings bad treble, but good bass out of the 009).

I could see people preferring the 009 or even the 007 with an amp like the BHSE or Carbon or GG, but for a newcomer Phenomenon makes remarkably near-perfect headphone sound. 

Mind you again this all is based on a short listening on a new headphone. I will update (and possibly change opinion) when I will get mine and have a few weeks/months experience with it. Also, I am very curious of the Canorum v3 - need to speak nicely to thinker if I want to listen to it .


----------



## joseph69

zolkis said:


> Technically, new stators, new diaphragm, new pads. About the sound maybe later.





thinker said:


> Also, @thinker, why did you send yours back, just for the upgraded driver?
> 
> Yes.Dima said he can make it even better maybe new drivers V3.0 ?


Thank you both for the replies, and your listening impressions. 
Looking forward to hearing more impressions from both of you after more time spent with the Libratum v3.

Dima also mentioned that anytime there is an upgrade to the drivers, they could be sent back (at the cost of shipping) for a free upgrade. This makes me feel comfortable incase something unfortunately should go wrong with the drivers as well.


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 19, 2017)

I _*seriously Never had any trebles issues*_ with SR-009 and neither of any of my Kg Amps, not with Carbon, not with Grounded Grid, especially Never with T2.

I don’t know about the 009 being efficient claims, but I can tell you that Carbon and Grounded Grid is not “weak amps”, but then the T2 is “a legendary beast”.  The 009 scales up obviously with each amps.  To have such powerful T2 to really push the 009 into this performances, I may have to rethink the claims of 009 being an efficient Headphones


----------



## zolkis

Yeah, maybe we need to standardize terminology. Anyway, the 009 sounds louder than the 007, which sounds louder than the Libratum. Also, they do scale up in dynamics with more powerful amps.

What you seem to mean by "scale up" relates to sound quality, i.e the latter, not loudness,  right?


----------



## yates7592

Question to experienced SR007 Mk1 users:
What is the difference in sound between early 70xxx, 71xxx and late SZ1? I have the opportunity to buy a minty SZ1 but understand the early variants are more sought after. Would there be a good reason to avoid this mint SZ1? Is it closer to Mk2 than early Mk1?


----------



## wink

thinker said:


> I did a small sample how Phenomenon Libratum sounds




WOW.... That sounds exactly identical to the Sennheiser RS220 I am listening to........


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 21, 2017)

Finally, I found a matched Quad of ECC88 from SQ Philips from Heerlen productions.  The wait was long, but worth it.  My T2 had every counts of measurements ridiculously stable within spec, and there is 0 Noises, no hums even at Maxed out Volume !!!

The sound improvements is immediately observed.  Tighter and more controlled bass, layering and separation vastly improved.  Especially that detailed finery from the trebles each and every plays.  The depth of stage and cues of positioning presentations are out of this world.  Trebles extend to infinity, so sweet, so natural, so real, and super vivid !  The timbres and tonal body achieve another level of naturalness + Realism, then the air, the flows, the sweet sound....I run out of words to put it in.  The combinations of SQ Heerlen Philips ECC88 and Blackburn Xf2 double 00 EL-34.  This is higher than drugs....not that I ever did drug but this performances is crazy!

The seller told me that tubes need burnin, and I can already hear the improvements.  It can only get better from here ! WoooOO


----------



## wink

So, I suspect you like it.........


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 22, 2017)

wink said:


> So, I suspect you like it.........


Loving it ways too much ! Eventhough I like JJ as the current products, they are not up to par with highly sought NOS


----------



## hfhimeka

Which tubes made more significant improvement to sound on the T2 when tube rolling?  The input or output tubes?


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 22, 2017)

hfhimeka said:


> Which tubes made more significant improvement to sound on the T2 when tube rolling?  The input or output tubes?



Both outputs and input tubes will effect the sound performances.  But significantly will have to be the input tubes from my observation 

Could also be that because I already had xf2 in when I swapped input tubes ? I don’t want to bother swapping them out.  But both sets of tubes will effect the performances.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Whitigir said:


> Finally, I found a matched Quad of ECC88 from SQ Philips from Heerlen productions.  The wait was long, but worth it.  My T2 had every counts of measurements ridiculously stable within spec, and there is 0 Noises, no hums even at Maxed out Volume !!!
> 
> The sound improvements is immediately observed.  Tighter and more controlled bass, layering and separation vastly improved.  Especially that detailed finery from the trebles each and every plays.  The depth of stage and cues of positioning presentations are out of this world.  Trebles extend to infinity, so sweet, so natural, so real, and super vivid !  The timbres and tonal body achieve another level of naturalness + Realism, then the air, the flows, the sweet sound....I run out of words to put it in.  The combinations of SQ Heerlen Philips ECC88 and Blackburn Xf2 double 00 EL-34.  This is higher than drugs....not that I ever did drug but this performances is crazy!
> 
> The seller told me that tubes need burnin, and I can already hear the improvements.  It can only get better from here ! WoooOO



Can your amp accept any of the 6922 family of tubes?

In my tube rolling I found the more powerful the tubes, the better it sounded, i.e: 6N23P > E188CC > CCa > E88CC > ECC88.

The ECC88/6DJ8 tubes were the weakest of the bunch.


----------



## thinker (Nov 26, 2017)

Did hear today after 6 months Transdyn with modded Quad Float headphones ,as result i still consider it to be one of the best electrostatic combos on the market.

And some news: I will get from a research lab an electrostatic headphone wich drivers are made of graphene.I will report nothing before i have them in my hands, maybe in month or two.


----------



## Whitigir

thinker said:


> Did hear today after 6 months Transdyn with modded Quad Float headphones ,as result i still consider it *to be one of the best electrostatic combos on the market.*
> 
> And some news: I will get from a research lab an electrostatic headphone with drivers made of graphene.I will report nothing before i have them in my hands, maybe in month or two.



You _*can not claim *_ such thing when you don’t have sufficient experiences in other systems such as 009+T2 or Orpheus , HE-1, Shrangila, And without enough evidence to support this.  This is agains the forum posting guides here.

You can only _*only claim that*_ it is the best you have ever heard, and that is fine.  Because no one will care about what you have heard so far.


----------



## Whitigir

Thenewguy007 said:


> Can your amp accept any of the 6922 family of tubes?
> 
> In my tube rolling I found the more powerful the tubes, the better it sounded, i.e: 6N23P > E188CC > CCa > E88CC > ECC88.
> 
> The ECC88/6DJ8 tubes were the weakest of the bunch.


 CCa is too expensive  ECC88 is the Philips I have, so I will just stop here as the improvements are better than my current JJ tubes.  Nos tubes are astronomically pricey so tubes rolling on NOS Tubes is pretty ridiculous 

Thanks for the tips


----------



## jgazal

Off topic. I would appreciate if anybody fond of hi-fi immersive sound could check for errors in the following post: *A layman multimedia guide to Immersive Sound for the technically minded*


----------



## thinker

Whitigir said:


> You _*can not claim *_ such thing when you don’t have sufficient experiences in other systems such as 009+T2 or Orpheus , HE-1, Shrangila, And without enough evidence to support this.  This is agains the forum posting guides here.
> 
> You can only _*only claim that*_ it is the best you have ever heard, and that is fine.  Because no one will care about what you have heard so far.


maybe you should look at my profile,i bought already the Orpheus system early 90's and since then had Omega, 009 etc.etc  with many amps and i have heard in two occasions HE-1.


----------



## Whitigir

That doesn’t mean anything, unless you have solid evidence to claim such thing, pictures, video clips...etc...to really judges the systems that are worth well into 50k.  Otherwise, words don’t get any 50k worth


----------



## thinker

Whitigir said:


> That doesn’t mean anything, unless you have solid evidence to claim such thing, pictures, video clips...etc...to really judges the systems that are worth well into 50k.  Otherwise, words don’t get any 50k worth


this was one of them nice combo but in the end didn't like it


----------



## thinker

this wasnt bad but didn't like it in the end


----------



## Whitigir

Not enough


----------



## hpeter

Thenewguy007 said:


> Can your amp accept any of the 6922 family of tubes?
> 
> In my tube rolling I found the more powerful the tubes, the better it sounded, i.e: 6N23P > E188CC > CCa > E88CC > ECC88.
> 
> The ECC88/6DJ8 tubes were the weakest of the bunch.


linearity wise, 6n1pi seems best. they say it is same as ecc88, this is BS.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Pissing contest out there 

Ali


----------



## thinker

i don't like pissing contests but whitigir should know that you can't actually buy for money the best out there.Hifiman has introduced again he's famous HE-5 from past , buy some used class A solid state 50W amp from ebay for some 500 USD that's 800USD together and hook this up with speaker terminals,i guess in blind test against he's 50K system the result would be 50/50.


----------



## Rossliew

Having a T2 does not make one top of the pops


----------



## bearFNF (Nov 28, 2017)

Not only that, he said, "*I still consider it to be one of the best"* which means it's his opinion and he is allowed to express his opinion.

Time to get off the high horse and let others express their opinions....


----------



## Muinarc

This is why I don't post in STAX threads unfortunately.


----------



## zolkis

AFAIK graphene needs a support layer to form a composite membrane - nevertheless, it sounds interesting.

@Whitigir: I can vouch that thinker does have extensive experience with expensive electrostatic systems (add the SR-Omega to the list above, and I don't know about the T2 and ShangriLa). I have heard that new Jecklin Float system (not with the mods), and it's quite special indeed, albeit so different head-fi experience that I would not compare it directly with traditional headphone systems. Try taking his comment as a positive feedback to try out the Float, not as one targeted against the other systems.


----------



## tempocalypse

Greetings!

I am considering a headphone upgrade and am evaluating Stax in addition to LCD-X and HD800S. I will be able to audition the SR007 mkII and the SR-L700 in December. Been reading up in the meantime and would like to clarify something...

I am gathering that with a lot of Stax headphones achieving an airtight seal is important for producing quality bass. However is it correct that the L700 and SR007mkII do not seal fully by design (unless the SR007mkII has received the bass port mod)? Requiring a tight seal is a bit of a concern for me as I wear glasses full time.

 I've done a bit of searching but haven't managed to read through all 800+ pages!


----------



## Whitigir

Airtight seal on my 009 doesn’t affect the bass....it can reduce Stax farts or increase it, but not the bass


----------



## Tinkerer

I wear glasses and both my old Lambda Spirit and 007 Mk I seal fine. The pads are usually soft enough to accommodate.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Difference on SR-507 between seal and no seal :







Courtesy of @Sorrodje 

Ali


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

With the SR-007 seal makes big difference, at least in my experience.
My pair has the port mod and the big metal arcs of the MK1 brown pads instead of the small ones that come with the black pads (I'm using the black pads with the bigger metal arcs), also I bended a bit the headband arcs to get the best possible seal. The sound difference after that was a more linear and impactful sound, plus a bit more precise imaging.


----------



## tempocalypse

Thanks for the feedback gents.



Ali-Pacha said:


> Difference on SR-507 between seal and no seal :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I ran across this graph or similar earlier, during my research which is part of what prompted this question. However, I did see one comment (either here or possibly another forum, I can't seem to trace it back) stating that the L700 is unlike other Lamdas in that it is vented... I haven't been able to corroborate that.

Anyway I guess I will see how the L700 and Sr-007 Stax's fare with the best seal I can get against the other headphones when I audition them. Thing is since I can only buy on trips abroad (no dealers where I live) I like to clear up niggling questions like this in advance.

Cheers all.


----------



## statfi

ToroFiestaSol said:


> With the SR-007 seal makes big difference, at least in my experience.
> My pair has the port mod and the big metal arcs of the MK1 brown pads instead of the small ones that come with the black pads (I'm using the black pads with the bigger metal arcs), also I bended a bit the headband arcs to get the best possible seal. The sound difference after that was a more linear and impactful sound, plus a bit more precise imaging.


I have 009s and had good luck improving the sound quality by increasing the clamping force with rubber bands.  I have posted a lot on this topic, but you could start here:     Post #12954 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-864#post-13740585


----------



## joseph69

statfi said:


> I have 009s and had good luck improving the sound quality by increasing the clamping force with rubber bands.  I have posted a lot on this topic, but you could start here:     Post #12954 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-864#post-13740585


Good luck?
Didn't you break your headband doing this?


----------



## statfi

I did no damage this way, and believe that there is low risk with just rubber bands.  I tried to go beyond this, and ran into trouble.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

statfi said:


> I have 009s and had good luck improving the sound quality by increasing the clamping force with rubber bands.  I have posted a lot on this topic, but you could start here:     Post #12954 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-864#post-13740585



Look, it's no secret that I'm not a fan of the 009, but I wouldn't do that to one even if it insults my mom while playing polka, looks like it will break one moment or another.


----------



## wuwhere

yates7592 said:


> Question to experienced SR007 Mk1 users:
> What is the difference in sound between early 70xxx, 71xxx and late SZ1? I have the opportunity to buy a minty SZ1 but understand the early variants are more sought after. Would there be a good reason to avoid this mint SZ1? Is it closer to Mk2 than early Mk1?



I have an SZ1-1096 and another that I believe is older, however it doesn't have a serial number any longer (I guess it was stripped). I older one is a little less dark. I prefer it.


----------



## Zadok

Hey y'all. Pseudo new stax owner here, chiming in. Every time I use my LCD3 for awhile and wonder if I should prune down into just one rig, I listen to my stax setup and am reminded why I like them. 

I do have a question though. I've read great things about the L700, but I've also heard that "all lambdas are in the same ballpark really". Did any of you notice a large difference between the l700 and previous lambdas?


----------



## oneguy

No real experience with the older lambdas except the 507 but I can tell you there is a difference between the L700 and the others. I prefer the L700 to the rest of the L line. The 507 would rank above the L500 and L300 for me.


----------



## Pahani

I have only heard (own) the 207 and L700. L700 is definitely better to my ears. A fair bit, actually.

Both 207 and L700 scaled up with my 3 amps. 252S, SRM-1 Mk2, and 353X, in that order. Though my SRM-1 may need to be recapped. Though the 207 did benefit from a better amp, my preference for L700 remained constant at each step, IMO.

Haven't heard L300 or L500, so can't comment.


----------



## hpeter

tempocalypse said:


> Greetings!
> 
> I am considering a headphone upgrade and am evaluating Stax in addition to LCD-X and HD800S. I will be able to audition the SR007 mkII and the SR-L700 in December. Been reading up in the meantime and would like to clarify something...
> 
> ...


 i posted few pictures how i intentionally worsened seal, to improve bass (207,l300) (bassfart mod)
but there is a small sweet spot, basically in between no seal and full seal.


----------



## Zadok

Pahani said:


> Both 207 and L700 scaled up with my 3 amps. 252S, SRM-1 Mk2, and 353X, in that order



What about the 353 do you like better than the srm-1? I have the srm 006ts, which I've read has similar if not identical parts of the circuitry to the srm-1. I am running a SR 407 too, which sits right between the 207 and l700. It's curious that I've read another review that preferred the solid state to the tube energizer.

I also wish the bass would punch a little harder. I've read that chasing bass in stax is a bad idea since the drivers are different, but I've also read that the L700 and SR007 will punch harder than the others, hence most of the reason I was considering them. Otherwise, I enjoy my 407's just as much as my LCD3.


----------



## wuwhere

Zadok said:


> What about the 353 do you like better than the srm-1? I have the srm 006ts, which I've read has similar if not identical parts of the circuitry to the srm-1. I am running a SR 407 too, which sits right between the 207 and l700. It's curious that I've read another review that preferred the solid state to the tube energizer.
> 
> I also wish the bass would punch a little harder. I've read that chasing bass in stax is a bad idea since the drivers are different, but I've also read that the L700 and SR007 will punch harder than the others, hence most of the reason I was considering them. Otherwise, I enjoy my 407's just as much as my LCD3.



I just prefer round vs rectangular drivers.


----------



## statfi

hpeter said:


> i posted few pictures how i intentionally worsened seal, to improve bass (207,l300) (bassfart mod)
> but there is a small sweet spot, basically in between no seal and full seal.


Apologies, but could you post a link that goes to your posts with pictures?  Thanks!  (Or tell me how to navigate with what you posted here  !-)


----------



## Whitigir

hpeter said:


> i posted few pictures how i intentionally worsened seal, to improve bass (207,l300) (bassfart mod)
> but there is a small sweet spot, basically in between no seal and full seal.



Yeah, I wear glasses, and it is better this way because I don’t lose bass but I do have less fart.  I tried to have full seal before, but then it would fart everytime and that is like an apocalypse to my ears


----------



## JimL11

Zadok said:


> I have the srm 006ts, which I've read has similar if not identical parts of the circuitry to the srm-1.



Um, no.  The SRM-1 is all solid-state, the SRM-006TS has tube outputs.  Very different circuitry.  The SRM-006 IS very similar to the SRM-T1/T1S/T1W.


----------



## Zadok

Yep. You're right. Got those confused for a moment. That makes sense for the comparison more. Thanks for the correction.


----------



## Pahani

JimL11 said:


> Um, no.  The SRM-1 is all solid-state, the SRM-006TS has tube outputs.  Very different circuitry.  The SRM-006 IS very similar to the SRM-T1/T1S/T1W.



Yup, Jim is correct, as usual 

Like I said, my particular SRM-1 probably needs to be recapped. It sounds a touch treble-happy to me, but that could easily be confused with being bass-light, which I believe I've read is an indication of needing the capacitors replaced.

I don't possess the skill to do it myself, so my SRM-1 likely will stay that way.


----------



## hpeter (Nov 30, 2017)

statfi said:


> Apologies, but could you post a link that goes to your posts with pictures?  Thanks!  (Or tell me how to navigate with what you posted here  !-)


bass fart mod for old lambdas https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-l300-impressions-thread.813511/page-5#post-13409602
for new lambdas  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-l300-impressions-thread.813511/page-8#post-13424289  one change ... see pic

you must adjust to sweetspot. it seems venting (breathing) (behind or bottom the ear!) does increase bass feel -like higher qts on woofers




the 207 bass fart mod with just one tubing, did not add much bass, but two hit the spot well.
had like heat  shrink tube ~8mm internal dia


----------



## statfi

Thanks for the notes on fart mods!  
What are "higher qts on woofers"?
I can see why adding ports kills the farts.  What does it do the bass in terms of both quantity and quality.


----------



## astrostar59

Whitigir said:


> Finally, I found a matched Quad of ECC88 from SQ Philips from Heerlen productions.  The wait was long, but worth it.  My T2 had every counts of measurements ridiculously stable within spec, and there is 0 Noises, no hums even at Maxed out Volume !!!
> 
> The sound improvements is immediately observed.  Tighter and more controlled bass, layering and separation vastly improved.  Especially that detailed finery from the trebles each and every plays.  The depth of stage and cues of positioning presentations are out of this world.  Trebles extend to infinity, so sweet, so natural, so real, and super vivid !  The timbres and tonal body achieve another level of naturalness + Realism, then the air, the flows, the sweet sound....I run out of words to put it in.  The combinations of SQ Heerlen Philips ECC88 and Blackburn Xf2 double 00 EL-34.  This is higher than drugs....not that I ever did drug but this performances is crazy!
> 
> The seller told me that tubes need burnin, and I can already hear the improvements.  It can only get better from here ! WoooOO



Hey Whitigir, as that a 3 mains feed I see from one plug there?


----------



## Whitigir (Dec 1, 2017)

Any


astrostar59 said:


> Hey Whitigir, as that a 3 mains feed I see from one plug there?



Yes, that is correct  all 3 are one and the same power cord.  The largest power cord I have ever made


----------



## Jones Bob

Whitigir said:


> Yes, that is correct  all 3 are one and the same power cord.  The largest power cord I have ever made



I like your style, Dude.


----------



## hpeter

statfi said:


> Thanks for the notes on fart mods!
> What are "higher qts on woofers"?
> I can see why adding ports kills the farts.  What does it do the bass in terms of both quantity and quality.







here is like for example a open baffle "cabinet" with various woofers qts
bass with low qts will be small,  higher qts gives more oomph  (damping woofer´s cone is smaller)

(_example; high qts woofer in bassreflex would be a booming pain, not suitable there_
_for bassreflex are better low qts woofers which have high mechanic and electric damping, stiff spider, fat magnets and magnetic brakes)_

what i say here, the full seal on stax is maybe a green or red line, after mod it may be like blue or pink line
if you decrease seal further, it will boom in midbass

when seal is changed, it also changes bass resonance freq, therefore doing bass  fart mod can be tricky.
(head-ear chamber provides only mechanical damping of diafragm)


----------



## hpeter

Zadok said:


> Yep. You're right. Got those confused for a moment. That makes sense for the comparison more. Thanks for the correction.


srm-t1 is hybrid.


----------



## Tiazmat

So, maybe it's just me, but it seems like I never see people talking about Megatron. Does anyone know why? Just that it's primarily DIY-only, when people like Birgir and Justin are making similarly priced alternatives that are easier to buy? I heard it was a bit of a pain to build (but also heard it was relatively easy compared to BH/T2), and that seems why Birgir at least doesn't build them.

Can anyone comment on the tonality of the Megatron? I'd expect it to sound way more tubey than any other high-end amp (barring the WES, but I did say "high-end"), and while I've heard it does the 007 well, that isn't what I would have expected, tonality wise (it definitely has the juice to power them). I also would think it'd be a no-brainer to pair with the 009s, which sort of makes me wonder why I don't see it more often.


----------



## paradoxper

Probably the same reason you don't hear much about BH builds. BHSE is commercial and available.

Aside from DIY'ing the Megatron yourself, good luck finding a builder. 
I surmise casework is a major consideration here.


----------



## SeaWo|f

DIY only and it is a space heater. 

And even if you are a tube guy the prospect of rolling the thing with an octet of el3s plus 4 input tubes is not for the light of wallet. 

That said I would snap one up in a second, pissed I missed the one sprizter built.

There is a thread on this site dedicated to the megatron which covers its sonic properties well, including comparisons to other flagship diy stats amps.


----------



## Tiazmat

paradoxper said:


> Probably the same reason you don't hear much about BH builds. BHSE is commercial and available.
> 
> Aside from DIY'ing the Megatron yourself, good luck finding a builder.
> I surmise casework is a major consideration here.



I hadn't even considered casework; the fact that I've seen multiple "naked" Megatrons might back up that theory.



SeaWo|f said:


> DIY only and it is a space heater.
> 
> And even if you are a tube guy the prospect of rolling the thing with an octet of el3s plus 4 input tubes is not for the light of wallet.
> 
> ...



Fair point on it being a "space heater", but then really, the only top-tier amp that isn't is probably the Carbon (I assume anyway, and it probably still gets fairly warm).

I had no idea HF had a Megatron thread; I'll definitely be reading it. I read through a Megatron thread on another forum but it was mostly just about building, and not a ton about sonics. Thanks.


----------



## jessnie

dream setting


----------



## Jones Bob (Dec 3, 2017)

Tiazmat said:


> /snip
> Fair point on it being a "space heater", but then really, the only top-tier amp that isn't is probably the Carbon (I assume anyway, and it probably still gets fairly warm)./snip



Not claiming my GG is a Top-Tier Amp, but in the large casework I used, it runs surprisingly cool. Especially compared to my small cased KGST. Exposed tubes run hot, but the heatsinks/case don’t get more than 40C on even a hot summer day.
Measuring 35C (barely warm to the touch) this cool evening.


----------



## Tiazmat

Jones Bob said:


> Not claiming my GG is a Top-Tier Amp, but in the large casework I used, it runs surprisingly cool. Especially compared to my small cased KGST. Exposed tubes run hot, but the heatsinks/case don’t get more than 40C on even a hot summer day.
> Measuring 35C this cool evening.


I honestly hadn't heard of the GG before you mentioned it (and it seems like I've spent all my free time the last few weeks reading this thread, but I'm reading them in order and am no-where near current), but if it fits the description of a "Carbon with tube output stage", it probably isn't far behind Megatron, if at all (though again, I clearly need to do more reading!)


----------



## Whitigir

Tiazmat said:


> I honestly hadn't heard of the GG before you mentioned it (and it seems like I've spent all my free time the last few weeks reading this thread, but I'm reading them in order and am no-where near current), but if it fits the description of a "Carbon with tube output stage", it probably isn't far behind Megatron, if at all (though again, I clearly need to do more reading!)



Megatron is different, it is tubes galore.  The Grounded Grid is a top tier amp, And yes, it run the coolest out of all the KG amps I have came across.  

Also, it is not fun to tubes roll on Megatron .  A quad EL34 XF2 is enough of a killer ....LoL


----------



## Jones Bob (Dec 3, 2017)

Have not heard other Gilmore STAX amps so, cannot say which peg on the ladder the GG rests on.

I will say the GG is a very nice step up from a KGST. Especially with NOS EL34s,

And it runs unusually cool. Surprising really after cutting my vacuum tube teeth on several Harman Kardon Citation IIs in the ‘80s and ‘90s.


----------



## Slim1970

Just got these yesterday. But unfortunately my Pro iESL isn't functioning properly. So I haven't had a chance to listen yet.


----------



## Whitigir

Isn’t proESL can potentially damage your Stax ?


----------



## Slim1970

Whitigir said:


> Isn’t proESL can potentially damage your Stax ?


I haven't heard that


----------



## joseph69

Slim1970 said:


> Just got these yesterday. But unfortunately my Pro iESL isn't functioning properly. So I haven't had a chance to listen yet.


 Why is there a #4 on the cup?


----------



## Slim1970

joseph69 said:


> Why is there a #4 on the cup?


I think that is just light.


----------



## joseph69

Slim1970 said:


> I think that is just light.


Wow, totally looks like the #4 is written on the cup. Congratulations on the 007.


----------



## Slim1970

joseph69 said:


> Wow, totally looks like the #4 is written on the cup. Congratulations on the 007.


Thanks, I did have to double check them, lol.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Whitigir said:


> Isn’t proESL can potentially damage your Stax ?



The question has been asked on the other place and answered in detail by spritzer.


----------



## JimL11

Whitigir said:


> Isn’t proESL can potentially damage your Stax ?





Slim1970 said:


> I haven't heard that



So, the iESL is basically the same idea as a Stax SRD-7 Pro, that is, a bias supply plus step-up transformers for the audio signal. Now, the bias supply in the Stax is a voltage multiplier with small value (0.1 uf) caps to supply a DC voltage, with a 5.1 megohm resistor after the last cap, so it has low amount of stored energy and the resistor ensures that charge can only flow slowly into the diaphragm. This helps protect the diaphragm from being zapped quickly with a large charge, and thus damaged.  Because the current flow into the diaphragm is very slow, there shouldn't be any noise, ripple, etc despite the small caps.

The iESL replaces this low stored energy system with a battery, which has much more stored charge. This is an expensive solution to a non-existent problem, and potentially dangerous to the health of the diaphragm if the charge in the battery somehow gets dumped into the diaphragm.


----------



## Slim1970

JimL11 said:


> So, the iESL is basically the same idea as a Stax SRD-7 Pro, that is, a bias supply plus step-up transformers for the audio signal. Now, the bias supply in the Stax is a voltage multiplier with small value (0.1 uf) caps to supply a DC voltage, with a 5.1 megohm resistor after the last cap, so it has low amount of stored energy and the resistor ensures that charge can only flow slowly into the diaphragm. This helps protect the diaphragm from being zapped quickly with a large charge, and thus damaged.  Because the current flow into the diaphragm is very slow, there shouldn't be any noise, ripple, etc despite the small caps.
> 
> The iESL replaces this low stored energy system with a battery, which has much more stored charge. This is an expensive solution to a non-existent problem, and potentially dangerous to the health of the diaphragm if the charge in the battery somehow gets dumped into the diaphragm.


Okay, now I can see the potential issue. It’s basically a difference in design philosophies and one I hope not to encounter. Thanks for the information.


----------



## Thaudiophile

Since both the 009s and 007s pair very well with the old kgsshv, so they should also pair very well with the new cheap kgsshv too?


----------



## wink

..... with any KGSSHV.......


----------



## AudioThief

Stax friends

I am a bit confused right now. I only trust you Stax experts. 

I am a happy owner of the SRS 3100. I love the sound so much, I want to put all my chips in the stacks pot. I either want to:

a) Upgrade my current DAC (Dragonfly RED) to a Modi multibit (+Eitr), Chord 2Qute or Chord Mojo
b) Upgrade my Stax AMP to get more out of the lovely L300 (I am confined to the current line of STAX AMPS however)
c) Purchase the Stax SR-L700 and use it with my 252 for now, upgrading amp later. Possibly add a modi multibit with my Stax L700 purchase

If you were in my shoes, what would you do ? I read that the L700 is significantly higher fidelity, and generally speaking if something costs more, it sounds better - this has been my experience (except estats vs dynamics , SRS 3100 > all dynamics I have heard). Others say L700 is not as nice sounding as L300 - and I do love my L300. I just want to optimize its sound... I.e if it can become better, I want it. So then the question is what to do? DACs are not so important, but my dac is pretty cheap unit for my setup. I don't know if L300 benefits from a better amp, or if L700 sounds good from 252. 

Please help!!!


----------



## Tiazmat

AudioThief said:


> Stax friends
> 
> I am a bit confused right now. I only trust you Stax experts.
> 
> ...


Given your budget, unless you notice issues in the sound, skip upgrading the DAC. It might be a sensible decision with the 00X series, and even with the L700's given a good amp already, but upgrading to a better DAC is not the best bang for the buck at this tier, unless something is wrong with the DAC.

Given your options, upgrading to an L700 seems to be the obvious choice. While you would get a noticeably better sound out of a better amp, it's not nearly the jump from the L300 to the L700. And yes, the 252S is the weakest amp, but considering that, it's not actually that terrible, and I don't think it's crazy to run L700's through them, considering that is the most price-effective combo at that price.

Now, full disclosure, I have not heard the L700's, but I own a 3100 system like you. And like you, I wanted more. As far as I can tell, the jump from L300 to L700 is mostly about the quality of the sound, without much tonality change, unlike the previous X07 line. Of course, I could be wrong, but this is what I've heard. As much as he is probably lamented by this community, I'd like to recommend Z Review's sound demo's for the L700's and L500's (which sound the same as the L300's). While his opinions should be taken with a ocean of salt, the sound demos are fairly underrated in terms of, at the very least, being able to judge tonality, and considering the L500 and L700 sound demos were recorded at almost the same time, they should be comparable with a decent level of objectivity.


----------



## wuwhere

Finally got my KGST.


----------



## Rossliew

wuwhere said:


> Finally got my KGST.



Can you share some impressions of it?


----------



## wuwhere (Dec 4, 2017)

Rossliew said:


> Can you share some impressions of it?



Compared to 717, not as dark, images are more solid, much tighter bass, more solid as well. It sounds sweet, not dry. This was his personal KGST. He updated it to his latest model before selling it. I asked him to put a pro bias in the normal so it has two pros.

My SR-003 Mk2 pairs really well with KGST.


----------



## Zadok

Tiazmat said:


> Given your options, upgrading to an L700 seems to be the obvious choice. While you would get a noticeably better sound out of a better amp, it's not nearly the jump from the L300 to the L700. And yes, the 252S is the weakest amp, but considering that, it's not actually that terrible, and I don't think it's crazy to run L700's through them, considering that is the most price-effective combo at that price.



I agree with this post. Digital Audio Review actually holds the dragonfly red in pretty high regard, so really you won't have to worry about that unless it's giving you problems. I enjoy my SRM-006ts with my 407's, and if I were looking to upgrade my stax system in the future, I would definitely upgrade the earspeakers before the amp. If you're going into L700, 007, or 009 territory, then you really should budget for a better amp with that jump, but I agree that the L700 is the more important first step towards that system


----------



## Rossliew

wuwhere said:


> Compared to 717, not as dark, images are more solid, much tighter bass, more solid as well. It sounds sweet, not dry. This was his personal KGST. He updated it to his latest model before selling it. I asked him to put a pro bias in the normal so it has two pros.
> 
> My SR-003 Mk2 pairs really well with KGST.



Thanks for the impressions. Am wondering if a lowly L300 would pair well with it


----------



## wuwhere

Rossliew said:


> Thanks for the impressions. Am wondering if a lowly L300 would pair well with it



The SR-003 Mk2 is even lowlier, it’s for portable use and not much bass. But it’s midrange really shines with KGST, specially with vocals. It didn’t pair well with 717. Since these amps are DIY, Mjolnir’s KGST may sound different than others.


----------



## Rossliew

Looks like the KGST brought some life back into your humble pair of Staxens


----------



## wuwhere

Yea, I just got them a few weeks ago, didn’t impress me with the 717. They’ve been described from a portable 009 to similar to 007.


----------



## SonOfGaladriel (Dec 5, 2017)

I couldn't get a response in the L300 thread so I thought I'd try here.
I've found a used srs3100 set and the sooner I make an informed decision on whether or not to commit, the better. 
Are there any particular issues to consider when purchasing a used set of Stax? I've read of some potential balance/level issues, but that's the extent of what I can find in my search so far.
Anything else that may go wrong with these electrostats that a second hand buyer should be aware of?   
I understand that service work on these can be difficult to obtain.
Thank you in advance.


----------



## wuwhere

I’ve bought two used 007 Mk1s here, no problems at all.


----------



## SonOfGaladriel (Dec 5, 2017)

Thanks for the reply.
I just literally won a set on ebay a few seconds ago!  I'm very excited.  The seller's communication wasn't the best, but he did state they are in very good condition.  Fingers crossed.
One more question:  Is this an appropriate voltage converter sufficient for the 252s?
https://www.amazon.com/VCT-VT-500J-Japanese-Transformer-Converts/dp/B004S2COIC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1512498956&sr=8-2&keywords=voltage+converter+japanese&th=1#Ask


----------



## Pahani

SonOfGaladriel said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> I just literally won a set on ebay a few seconds ago!  I'm very excited.  The seller's communication wasn't the best, but he did state they are in very good condition.  Fingers crossed.
> One more question:  Is this an appropriate voltage converter sufficient for the 252s?
> https://www.amazon.com/VCT-VT-500J-Japanese-Transformer-Converts/dp/B004S2COIC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1512498956&sr=8-2&keywords=voltage+converter+japanese&th=1#Ask


I've never used it, but that's the brand of converter I chose when I was shopping. I went with the 1000W model because overkill is what I'm good at.....

I ended up using a Jameco wall-wart with my 252S instead, so can't ACTUALLY tell you how that converter works. I think it would be fine though.


----------



## wuwhere

SonOfGaladriel said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> I just literally won a set on ebay a few seconds ago!  I'm very excited.  The seller's communication wasn't the best, but he did state they are in very good condition.  Fingers crossed.
> One more question:  Is this an appropriate voltage converter sufficient for the 252s?
> https://www.amazon.com/VCT-VT-500J-Japanese-Transformer-Converts/dp/B004S2COIC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1512498956&sr=8-2&keywords=voltage+converter+japanese&th=1#Ask



That transformer should work.


----------



## SonOfGaladriel

Just got an email from ebay stating the seller cancelled the order and refunded my payment!  I paid instantly only to get BS that its "no longer in stock"!  I guess he didn't get enough for them and is backing out of the deal. 
Back to the search!


----------



## joseph69

Sometimes things happen for a good reason.
You're most probably better off buying from the F/S forums on H-F.


----------



## SonOfGaladriel

Yes, things happen for a reason.  I'm hoping that means a better opportunity lay ahead.


----------



## astrostar59

Just buy the current 007 MK2. My 2015 issue is great, much improved over the older Mk2 I had, and IMO very close to the old much rated MK1, which by now is so old. Buy new, much better IMO. And don't forget the weak lead supports on the Mk1s....


----------



## ahmedie

Can someone check on those two Japanese guy ? He claim he make the following SRM-T2 for 2500 dollars, and his yahoo auction rating is very high over 850. There are two models and one with both normal headphone jack and stax-jack,
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m95216502
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w78464540

Another guy who used to work for saynno ?,
http://www.ishinolab.com/
Also he make all rounder amps that support normal speakers & normal headphones & stax, following are the models that support stax-jack
ＡＵ－２０３ＦＢＧ／ＰＳＴＡＸ >> tube/full balance written
ＭＡＳＴＥＲＳ　ＡＵ－９００ＸＧ／ＳＴＡＸ／ＨＰ >> solid
ＭＡＳＴＥＲＳ　ＳＸ－３０００ＢＤＧ／ＳＰ >> hybrid


----------



## ToroFiestaSol (Dec 5, 2017)

2500$ is impossible for a T2, it must be a complete mess.
Don't know about the ishino lab amps, but that T2 can't be good.
EDIT: I remember reading bad comments about it in other forum, but my memory is awful so I hope someone else can chime in and give an accurate comment about it.


----------



## mulveling (Dec 5, 2017)

LOL that thing is not anywhere close to a T2. A goat and a porcupine have more in common.

Even to my untrained eye, it's missing a whole lot of circuitry to be a T2 clone. LOTS of sand missing. The tube complement looks similar; that's about it.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Look at the internal pic, idk what it is but it isn't a t2


----------



## JimL11

ahmedie said:


> Can someone check on those two Japanese guy ? He claim he make the following SRM-T2 for 2500 dollars, and his yahoo auction rating is very high over 850. There are two models and one with both normal headphone jack and stax-jack,
> https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m95216502
> https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w78464540
> 
> ...



Agree with the others.  What it MIGHT be is an SRX clone (NOT the SRX Plus) using EL34s rather than the original 6CG7s, with passive power supply.  In the internal pics, there are clearly 4 coupling caps (the 4 black thingies between the smaller and larger tube sockets), whereas the T2 is completely direct coupled from input to output using LOTS (literally hundreds) of solid state parts. Also there are 4 large resistors (the white box-like things) whereas the T2 uses constant current sources which require large heat sinks. The parts cost for the T2 is more than $2500. The SRX circuit shares some DNA with the T2 in terms of topology, but that's it.


----------



## kevin gilmore

that is closer to half a megatron. and very much the wrong half. probably not a bad sounding amp, but no T2. Not even close


----------



## Whitigir

I was about to post a lot about Stax and T2, but my bad....I forgot my point and topic in mid way because I have T2 and 009 on my head

I know for a fact is that Stax is magical with KG Amplifiers, and it isn’t cheap.  So if you are getting something cheap for Stax, you are doing it wrong ...LOL ! Ofcourse KG designs has it from affordable to higher end all the way to T2, take your poison


----------



## wuwhere

With KG amps you can have SS or tube or both, just depends on how thick your wallet is.


----------



## catscratch

astrostar59 said:


> Just buy the current 007 MK2. My 2015 issue is great, much improved over the older Mk2 I had, and IMO very close to the old much rated MK1, which by now is so old. Buy new, much better IMO. And don't forget the weak lead supports on the Mk1s....



This. The latest version is a bit brighter than the Mk1 and isn't as fluid but it's also more dynamic, and maybe even a touch more detailed. The only issue is that I don't know if US or local market ones are the same as the Japanese version, and I would definitely recommend buying with a warranty.

Chasing used bargains is fun... until you get burned. Then you learn to buy the real thing.


----------



## Pokemonn (Dec 9, 2017)

darn... I noticed my 009 setup rig placements have been wrong!
I just placed my 009 setup rig(DAC/amp(SRM-727 modified)/power conditioner) on very soft cork-made room floor then they started to sound completely smooth and dark and bass is fuller.. Vibration controls make diffrences. I thought its a myth.  but i was wrong! as you know, power transformers of each gears are vibrating. simply you just need to kill those vibrations to sound just right.
I have been using very cheap metal-made wire rack for last 3 years. But I just noticed it sound super bright and metallic and harsh and screechy.
Also I changed stock power cables to heavily gauged Luxman JPA-10000 power cables for DAC and amp. They also sound bold and rich and dark.
Surprise surprise surprise.....My 009 setups have been completely wrong. 009 can sound dark and smooth. surprise suprise surprise....!!
And I am completely shocked. Lol (does anyone have same experience?)

addendum: simply I coundnt realize this simple facts until few days ago. very sad Lol


----------



## BenF (Dec 6, 2017)

AudioThief said:


> Stax friends
> 
> I am a bit confused right now. I only trust you Stax experts.
> 
> ...


Do not buy L700 to use with 252S - it will sound lifeless.
Do not buy a better amp for L300 - it doesn't need it.
DAC upgrade may be a good idea, Oppo HA-2(SE) shows clear improvement over more colored DACs as GO V2 and NFB-11.32

Better start saving for both L700/007/009 and a better amp.
If you must have L700 SS/SQ (as it sounds on 252S), buy 003 instead.
More here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...pressions-thread.785949/page-49#post-13893333


----------



## statfi

Pokemonn said:


> darn... I noticed my 009 setup rig placements have been wrong!





Pokemonn said:


> I just placed my 009 setup rigs on very soft cork-made room floor ...)



I do not understand "009 setup rigs".  Do you mean the components driving the 009s? If so, I also recommend tube dampers, if you are using tubes (Thanks to TheAttorney), and ferrites on your power and RCA cables.


----------



## Pokemonn

Oh I am sorry for my poor english usage...I mean my DAC and amp and power conditioner are. I currently don't use a tube amp. but I want a DIY T2 of course lol.


----------



## AudioThief

BenF said:


> Do not buy L700 to use with 252S - it will sound lifeless.
> Do not buy a better amp for L300 - it doesn't need it.
> DAC upgrade may be a good idea, Oppo HA-2(SE) shows clear improvement over more colored DACs as GO V2 and NFB-11.32
> 
> ...



Hi

I followed your advice and bought a DAC for now (modi mb), I am thinking about saving up to L700 + 353x. I don't think 009 / 007 will ever be within my budget unless a great package deal becomes available used (which does happen from time to time of course)


----------



## Pokemonn (Dec 9, 2017)

I just noticed that Stax SRM-T8000's anti-vibration mechanisms is not joke at all. it works. its highly audible effects. wow i thought its a scam. Lol
also SRM-T2's "separate" transformer must be one of the reason it sounds good.


----------



## BenF

AudioThief said:


> Hi
> 
> I followed your advice and bought a DAC for now (modi mb), I am thinking about saving up to L700 + 353x. I don't think 009 / 007 will ever be within my budget unless a great package deal becomes available used (which does happen from time to time of course)


L700 is 1200-1300$ on eBay, 007 is 1800$ - might be worth the effort.


----------



## Whitigir

Pokemonn said:


> I just noticed that Stax SRM-T8000's anti-vibration mechanisms is not joke at all. it works.
> also SRM-T2's "separate" transformer must be one of the reason it sounds good.



There are plenty of reason why the T2 sound good


----------



## AudioThief

BenF said:


> L700 is 1200-1300$ on eBay, 007 is 1800$ - might be worth the effort.



I am considering the amp requirements for those headphones. Seems consensus is you either get the top tier stax amps or a custom made one which are both extremely expensive and hard to deal with if something goes bad. But you are right, 007 could be an option. I think my best bet is to go to the capital where they have both demo'd and see what I like best. Its a 2hr flight though lol


----------



## Tiazmat (Dec 6, 2017)

The extra cost of a 007 isn't so much the headphones, as they are very similar in price to the L700's, sometimes only being $150 more, but the amplification needed makes the "cost" of the 007's quite substantially more than the L700's. Most consider a modded 727 to be the absolute minimum to drive the 007's, and even that is comparable to a 252S on an L700. A 353X at only $1000 (or of course a 323S second hand for much less if you can find one) can drive the L700's really well in comparison. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find most would prefer an L700 to a 007 out of something like a 353X, but the 007 would substantially pull ahead on a top tier amp (BHSE, KGSSHV Carbon, T2, etc.).

Addendum: I had an L300 and 252S combo, and was planning on getting an L700 and Woo WEE + amp, but after reading the praise of the 007's and seeing their low(ish) price, I've decided to get 007's, and a modded 727II (The 007's I don't actually have yet).


----------



## bearwarrior

Tiazmat said:


> The extra cost of a 007 isn't so much the headphones, as they are very similar in price to the L700's, sometimes only being $150 more, but the amplification needed makes the "cost" of the 007's quite substantially more than the L700's. Most consider a modded 727 to be the absolute minimum to drive the 007's, and even that is comparable to a 252S on an L700. A 353X at only $1000 (or of course a 323S second hand for much less if you can find one) can drive the L700's really well in comparison. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find most would prefer an L700 to a 007 out of something like a 353X, but the 007 would substantially pull ahead on a top tier amp (BHSE, KGSSHV Carbon, T2, etc.).
> 
> Addendum: I had an L300 and 252S combo, and was planning on getting an L700 and Woo WEE + amp, but after reading the praise of the 007's and seeing their low(ish) price, I've decided to get 007's, and a modded 727II (The 007's I don't actually have yet).


agreed


----------



## AudioThief

Tiazmat said:


> The extra cost of a 007 isn't so much the headphones, as they are very similar in price to the L700's, sometimes only being $150 more, but the amplification needed makes the "cost" of the 007's quite substantially more than the L700's. Most consider a modded 727 to be the absolute minimum to drive the 007's, and even that is comparable to a 252S on an L700. A 353X at only $1000 (or of course a 323S second hand for much less if you can find one) can drive the L700's really well in comparison. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find most would prefer an L700 to a 007 out of something like a 353X, but the 007 would substantially pull ahead on a top tier amp (BHSE, KGSSHV Carbon, T2, etc.).
> 
> Addendum: I had an L300 and 252S combo, and was planning on getting an L700 and Woo WEE + amp, but after reading the praise of the 007's and seeing their low(ish) price, I've decided to get 007's, and a modded 727II (The 007's I don't actually have yet).



Do you have an opinion on 353x vs 006ts? And would you recommend getting one of those amps and then the l700, (L300 via the amp until I get L700) or the other way around i.e l700 via 252 until I get the amp?


----------



## Tiazmat

AudioThief said:


> Do you have an opinion on 353x vs 006ts? And would you recommend getting one of those amps and then the l700, (L300 via the amp until I get L700) or the other way around i.e l700 via 252 until I get the amp?


Firstly, having not heard the amps, I can only go off of what I've heard, but I'll try my best. At retail prices, neither of these amps are exceedingly great value (meaning you should definitely try to buy used, and maybe look for other models (323S, 717, 727 (as long as it is modded or you can mod it yourself))), but they're decent enough. I think to some extent it is going to depend on taste, as many say the L700 needs tubes, while others say the exact opposite. If it were me, I'd get the 353X, as it is slightly cheaper, and you don't have to deal with any inconveniences due to having tubes. I encourage you to try to find more opinions as far as running L700's on solid state vs tubes though. 

As far as what to get first, I would definitely get the L700's first, then upgrade the amp. The other user here is perfectly entitled to his opinion, and is to some extent more qualified than I, as I have not heard these combos, but having seen more opinions, and from what I can conclude myself, I would definitely upgrade the earspeakers first. The 252S is not as criminally awful as it can be made out to be. There have been multiple posts here of people using 009's with their 252S because it's what they have next to them, even when they have much better amps.


----------



## AudioThief

Tiazmat said:


> Firstly, having not heard the amps, I can only go off of what I've heard, but I'll try my best. At retail prices, neither of these amps are exceedingly great value (meaning you should definitely try to buy used, and maybe look for other models (323S, 717, 727 (as long as it is modded or you can mod it yourself))), but they're decent enough. I think to some extent it is going to depend on taste, as many say the L700 needs tubes, while others say the exact opposite. If it were me, I'd get the 353X, as it is slightly cheaper, and you don't have to deal with any inconveniences due to having tubes. I encourage you to try to find more opinions as far as running L700's on solid state vs tubes though.
> 
> As far as what to get first, I would definitely get the L700's first, then upgrade the amp. The other user here is perfectly entitled to his opinion, and is to some extent more qualified than I, as I have not heard these combos, but having seen more opinions, and from what I can conclude myself, I would definitely upgrade the earspeakers first. The 252S is not as criminally awful as it can be made out to be. There have been multiple posts here of people using 009's with their 252S because it's what they have next to them, even when they have much better amps.



Thank you very much for your detailed response. There is one used set for sale in my country, it is an old 4040 set with headphones L404 + amp SRM 006t. For me, which already have SRS 3100, would this be an unecessary purchase? Or would the amp benefit me and fit the L700 as well? I ask because the used market isn't huge in my country and importing is way too expensive - so its important to jump on the good opportunities on the used market.


----------



## Tiazmat

AudioThief said:


> Thank you very much for your detailed response. There is one used set for sale in my country, it is an old 4040 set with headphones L404 + amp SRM 006t. For me, which already have SRS 3100, would this be an unecessary purchase? Or would the amp benefit me and fit the L700 as well? I ask because the used market isn't huge in my country and importing is way too expensive - so its important to jump on the good opportunities on the used market.


I would say only jump on it if it is a particularly good deal. It is a better amp than the 252S, for sure, but saving that money to upgrade to the L700's is probably the best move. But if it is cheap, and you can flip the 404's (or use them, but they probably aren't better than the L300's), then it's probably not a terrible idea. 

If there's anyone here that has experience with the L700's and a 006t, that input would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## AudioThief

Tiazmat said:


> I would say only jump on it if it is a particularly good deal. It is a better amp than the 252S, for sure, but saving that money to upgrade to the L700's is probably the best move. But if it is cheap, and you can flip the 404's (or use them, but they probably aren't better than the L300's), then it's probably not a terrible idea.
> 
> If there's anyone here that has experience with the L700's and a 006t, that input would be greatly appreciated.



Its hard to say. Norwegian prices are very expensive. If I do the direct conversions into dollars it becomes the following.

A brand new 353x is 1200$
The used 4040 set is 725$
A brand new L700 is 1200$

The 353x is the cheapest available stax amp. I do not know how the 006t stacks up against the 353x, but with the used deal I do get a novelty pair of 404.. Although thats not all that interesting - I think the more important question is if the L300 will benefit from the upgraded amp at all ( I do love my L300s and anything to enhance their sound would be fantastic), and more importantly if the L700 is a good match for the 006t.

I suppose the REAL question is however 

L700 with 252s
VS
L300 with 006ts

It is also worth considering that the 006t could be sold and I would perhaps not get the chance on them again - which means I would have to shell out the big bucks for a brand new amplifier in the 353x.


----------



## Tiazmat

AudioThief said:


> Its hard to say. Norwegian prices are very expensive. If I do the direct conversions into dollars it becomes the following.
> 
> A brand new 353x is 1200$
> The used 4040 set is 725$
> ...


From what I understand, the L300's will for sure sound better through the 006ts, though that combination likely doesn't sound as good as L700's with a 252s. I honestly don't know what is the better move though. It is a pretty good deal on the 4040, but it may still be the better move to get the L700's and wait to see what sort of other amps show up. I'm not sure.


----------



## AudioThief

Tiazmat said:


> From what I understand, the L300's will for sure sound better through the 006ts, though that combination likely doesn't sound as good as L700's with a 252s. I honestly don't know what is the better move though. It is a pretty good deal on the 4040, but it may still be the better move to get the L700's and wait to see what sort of other amps show up. I'm not sure.



Again thank you for the help. I guess we should wait and see if others with more specific experience could chime in. I guess in the end it will be a question about owning a superior pair of headphones but bottlenecking it (L700 + 252) or optimizing / "empowering" an inferior pair of headphones (L300 + 006t). So then I guess in the end its a question about how badly the L700 would be bottlenecked by the 252s. If I am to think in budget objectivist terms, the 252 should easily have enough juice to power the L700s. BenF is the odd one out for his dislike of the L700s - who knows if it is a defect unit, or if he personally just does not like the sound of the L700, or if the pairing is indeed so bad. Most others I have heard says the L700 + 252 is "fine" or "decent". 

So in my head, its more a question of the scalability of the headphones. If the L300 scales massively, getting a better amp could be a great improvement to a great pair of headphones. If they don't, the L700 via the 252 would clearly sound superior either way (assuming L700 > L300, which I cannot say for sure of course).


----------



## catscratch

I had the SR-404 with the SRM-313 and SRM-007t. I didn't like it. It wasn't terrible, but the midrange tonality was screwed up and the highs were a little rough. The L700 is altogether better. I won't get into detail since I got rid of the SR-404 long before I picked up the L700, but the L700 is a lot more neutral and technically capable overall. I'd get the L700, and forget about the 4040. Picking up a used amp is not a bad idea, but keep in mind that a lot of components have a limited shelf life, so picking up an older amp might mean that you also have to service it and replace components near the end of their shelf life, and it might not be worth the hassle.


----------



## Pokemonn

If you guys get/use Stax amps, I highly recommended to use very cheap bare cork sheets under the amps/dacs.
cork sounds really really good with Stax setup!


----------



## Zadok

Pokemonn said:


> If you guys get/use Stax amps, I highly recommended to use very cheap bare cork sheets under the amps/dacs.
> cork sounds really really good with Stax setup!



Why would that help anything? The only thing I can imagine that helping with would be high frequency ringing that some tube amps have with vibrations on the desk/shelf the amp sits on, but I haven't heard any of that with my energizer.


----------



## Pokemonn (Dec 8, 2017)

Cork can helps to reduce amps/dacs' power transformers vibrations(maybe effect via caps ands stray capacitors vibrations which cause modulations of audio signals). It significantly improve Stax SS/tube(BOTH) amps SQ Imo.
Have you ever heard Stax SS(build in power transformer type only) amps ringing? It sure does ringing if you very close(almost need to contact to amps top plate) your ears to Stax amp during you power it on. if you turn it off its gone.
as you know, Stax amps have almost 60db(x1000 times) gains, you are actually hearing significantly amplified noises/vibrations effects. estat amps act like vibration microscope. you can use your bed and/or sofa for temporaly experiment. but i dont recommend for long time experiment, becouse bed/sofa tend to cover under plate ventilation, it can be hazardous.


----------



## BenF

AudioThief said:


> BenF is the odd one out for his dislike of the L700s - who knows if it is a defect unit, or if he personally just does not like the sound of the L700, or if the pairing is indeed so bad. Most others I have heard says the L700 + 252 is "fine" or "decent".



L700 on 252S (and especially 253S) is "fine" and "decent", but it doesn't deliver SQ better or even on the same level as L300 on 252S - despite the 3x price tag.
If I didn't hear L300/003 before L700, I probably would like it a lot more than I do now 
The only area in which it is better than L300 (even with L700 pads) is bass - but it's still not on TH900MK2/Pro 82 level.
It just sounds like a very good, balanced dynamic headphone, not like an estat.
TH900MK2 is around the same price, and is vastly superior in EVERYTHING, including soundstage.



AudioThief said:


> So in my head, its more a question of the scalability of the headphones. If the L300 scales massively, getting a better amp could be a great improvement to a great pair of headphones. If they don't, the L700 via the 252 would clearly sound superior either way (assuming L700 > L300, which I cannot say for sure of course).


I should get a better amp by in a few weeks, will see if L300 can improve beyond the current level.
Probably not, as it's only problem is the bass, and it sounds like a pad issue, not an amp issue, since using L700 pads greatly improves it.
Hoping that L700 will improve though - if it doesn't, I will consider sending it to Stax for inspection. Doubt that there is anything wrong with them though, since Japanese usually have great QC, and I bought them brand new.


----------



## Tiazmat

BenF said:


> Probably not, as it's only problem is the bass, and it sounds like a pad issue, not an amp issue, since using L700 pads greatly improves it.


Okay well at least this confirms that our tastes definitely differ; I found the sound of the L300's with L700 pads to be a fair amount worse (still worth using because they're so much more comfortable, but a downgrade in SQ).


----------



## etiefenthaler

Hi, I am new on this Forum. I already posted my question in introduction, help and recommondation Forum and was directed to this thread.


I'd like to ask how to change inputVoltage on SRM-006tA I bought used some days ago in Akihabra Tokyo.
I already built several Studio Tube Microphone Preamps and other Audioequipment.
Below a link to pic of AC Input and Transformer.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GlBL_qB5Ikjvu23TLF2LQL5wSJKXZ2x7

A picture of this particular area of an 230 V SRM-006tII would be welcome 

Thanks a lot
Erich


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## kevin gilmore (Dec 9, 2017)

you are going to need to pop open the transformer and reattach the orange and blue wires.
the wires to the post from the transformer under the cap may also be cut.

then pop open the bottom of the unit and remove the jumpers and then wire such that orange goes to grey and
power is applied to yellow and blue. so remove jumpers at 1 and 3 and add a jumper at 2
there is another jumper you have to add, can't see from the picture

orange on the board may be labeled as purple


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## etiefenthaler

Thanks for support

Made two new pictures 
Bottom view:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MDeCHf7eXXADlZssCLZOwbba8-4J4j7k

Transformer connections:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ejOnomcHt5AxR2-HXzSuZODiMN0d-dYd


When I am back home from Japan in January I'll make mod to 230V. Hope I can open plastic cover without damaging transformer..

Again thanks a lot

Erich


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## kevin gilmore

I believe this is right, but best to check with ohmmeter before powering up
remove 1,3,6
add 2,5

result white,green,brown not attached to anything
orange(ppl) and grey together
power on yellow and blue

internal thermal fuse on yellow and white


----------



## Zadok

Man, a personal response from Kevin Gilmore. If anyone would know, he does!


----------



## Tiazmat

AudioThief said:


> So in my head, its more a question of the scalability of the headphones. If the L300 scales massively, getting a better amp could be a great improvement to a great pair of headphones. If they don't, the L700 via the 252 would clearly sound superior either way (assuming L700 > L300, which I cannot say for sure of course).


Okay, so my 727A modded arrived, and I figured it would be useful to post some impressions with the L300 compared to the 252S. HUGE caveat with these impressions: my L300 headband is broken. I've ordered the replacement, but who knows when it will arrive (someone on reddit said they ordered it a month ago and has not heard anything). So with these impressions I either have to: hold both of the "cups" to my ears and when I want to switch, it's very slow to do, or, only use one channel but am able to switch faster. I've done both, and while I've for sure decided that this is a terrible way to get a good impression, but I wanted to know how well they compared today rather than in a month.

So, yes, the L300's are better with the 727A. But by how much? Well, considering the price difference, it's totally not worth it for an L300, unless you specifically love the sound signature of the L300 and would want that over getting a better pair of Estats, OR, you listen loudly. The 252S, while a fantastic value, is awful at high volumes. Pushing it near its limit just produces so much distortion, while the 727 handles that volume flawlessly. Interestingly, I didn't notice an actual volume jump at all between the amps: it's all in how well it pushes the earspeakers. And it does do it quite a bit better. But it's mostly just noticeable at high volume levels. Before about 12 o'clock on the amps, there's not a big difference at all. In fact, had I not been looking for a difference, I don't think I'd have deduced the 727 was better. Past 12 o'clock, it does become more noticeable, but it's dependent on the song, and the difference is not large until the 252S really starts to struggle. 

Would I use a 727 with an L300? Well yes, I'm doing it right now. But only in the mindsets that either: the L300 is my endgame and I want to push it loud, OR, I'm getting a more high-end pair of earspeakers in the future and it makes sense in the situation to buy the amp first, which was the case for me. And that's mostly only true because I'm getting 007's, which need all the power they can get. With another lambda, the 252S will always be cheap but functional. 

And I must say, if this is what the modded 727 sounds like, I can't imagine how bad the regular 727 is. Would not recommend without the mod.

But just let me reiterate: considering the headband is broken, do not take any of this as fact. Considering I'll be able to both listen properly and switch fast with the headband, differences are going to become far clearer. But I don't have that yet, so this will have to do, and if the headband comes any time soon, I'll plan on posting updated impressions.


----------



## etiefenthaler

Thanks for great Info


----------



## rpeebles

*Dear Sirs,

I would like to purchase/assemble a high quality portable electrostatic set.

What is the STAX SRS-002 like ? Saw this is portable but do not really fancy in-ear.*

*I would really like to use the* *STAX SR-L700 ...or at least the L300...but with what STAX portable amplifier could I use it ? Is the STAX SRM-353x Driver Unit portable ?

I have even looked into the KingSound KS-04 and M-03 - Any good ?

Could this combo work; STAX  SR-L700 and KS M-03 ? Or better in that case stick to the KingSound assembly ?

Could the music source in these cases be TIDAL coming from an IPHONE -7 ? Can the IPHONE-7 be connected to these amplifiers ?

Thank you very much for your help !*


----------



## bearFNF

If you start at around this post (goes from about July or so through about Sept 2017) there is a discussion on the kingsound portable:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-820#post-13582386




rpeebles said:


> *Dear Sirs,
> 
> I would like to purchase/assemble a high quality portable electrostatic set.
> 
> ...


----------



## rpeebles

bearFNF said:


> If you start at around this post (goes from about July or so through about Sept 2017) there is a discussion on the kingsound portable:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-820#post-13582386



Dear bearFNF...Thank You for the direction !!


----------



## rpeebles

bmichels said:


> With my A&K SP1000 received today, my *portable battery operated Stax set-up *is now complete   .   Ready to go....



*Dear Sirs,

I would like to purchase/assemble a high quality portable electrostatic set.

What is the STAX SRS-002 like ? Saw this is portable but do not really fancy in-ear.*

*I would really like to use the* *STAX SR-L700 ...or at least the L300...but with what STAX portable amplifier could I use it ? Is the STAX SRM-353x Driver Unit portable ?

I have even looked into the KingSound KS-04 and M-03 - Any good ?

Could this combo work; STAX SR-L700 and KS M-03 ? Or better in that case stick to the KingSound assembly ?

Could the music source in these cases be TIDAL coming from an IPHONE -7 ? Can the IPHONE-7 be connected to these amplifiers ?

Thank you very much for your help !*


----------



## AnakChan

rpeebles said:


> *Dear Sirs,
> 
> I would like to purchase/assemble a high quality portable electrostatic set.
> 
> ...



These are just my thoughts, if you're *not *into in-ear, with current offerings I think a portable electrostatic Stax setup isn't going to give you the most out of any of the desktop Stax headphones - regardless of SR-009, SR-007, L700, L300, etc. Sure it can be done but IMHO, it's more a proof of concept rather than for actual audio satisfaction. I don't know about other electrostatic brands. But if portable is a priority, you're better off with other technologies than electrostatics (or, go look at the Shure KSE1500).


----------



## ZGojira

Sound wise, the SRS-002 is warmer than the L series. I actually prefer them to the L300 (on the edge on the L500, but L700 is better).
So it might work if you are sensitive to treble. However, most complaints of the portable stax comes from the comfort.
It is more of a transportable system and not a portable system....


----------



## rpeebles

AnakChan said:


> These are just my thoughts, if you're *not *into in-ear, with current offerings I think a portable electrostatic Stax setup isn't going to give you the most out of any of the desktop Stax headphones - regardless of SR-009, SR-007, L700, L300, etc. Sure it can be done but IMHO, it's more a proof of concept rather than for actual audio satisfaction. I don't know about other electrostatic brands. But if portable is a priority, you're better off with other technologies than electrostatics (or, go look at the Shure KSE1500).



Dear AnakChan thank you for your valuable opinions. The thing is I have tried other technologies and am not satisfied particularly with the transparency. 

What is the STAX SRS-002 Earspeaker System like ?...although in ear...maybe I should reconsider it.

Best regards,
Robert


----------



## rpeebles

ZGojira said:


> Sound wise, the SRS-002 is warmer than the L series. I actually prefer them to the L300 (on the edge on the L500, but L700 is better).
> So it might work if you are sensitive to treble. However, most complaints of the portable stax comes from the comfort.
> It is more of a transportable system and not a portable system....



Dear ZFojira thank you for your opinion. I really only need a transportable system - from one room of the house to another - and not a portable system. 

The SRS-002 is in ear, I understand. Is it really that uncomfortable ? What is the sound like of the STAX SRS-002 ---Earspeaker SR-002 + SRM-002 Combo ? 

Thank you !

Best


----------



## ZGojira

rpeebles said:


> Dear ZFojira thank you for your opinion. I really only need a transportable system - from one room of the house to another - and not a portable system.
> 
> The SRS-002 is in ear, I understand. Is it really that uncomfortable ? What is the sound like of the STAX SRS-002 ---Earspeaker SR-002 + SRM-002 Combo ?
> 
> ...



It's more on-ear than in-ear, i.e. the tips sit outside the ear canal and not inside. 
Overall the sound is quite nice, but it has some very strange properties. It is quite detailed (think HD800ish level), but with much smaller sound-stage (HE400ish) and low levels of separation and imaging. 
When I first heard it, I was baffled to find that it was possible for something to sound detailed, yet have so little instrument separation. 

FR-wise, it has a good sound of bass (not sub-bass, and not much rumble), and rolled of treble. You can think of it as a mid-centric earspeaker. 
It does not give you the electrostatic-bite, i.e. it did not give me the feeling of it being fast, but it was very transparent and clean. 

On sound alone, I would rate it as about the sound of a $800-$1kish price range over-ear headphone. I find it better to compare it with full-sized cans than iem as that is what they sound like. 

I personally do not find it uncomfortable, but a lot of people do, so YMMV is really the best I can say. That said, I do find the SRS-001 and SR-003 more comfortable compared to the SRS-002. 
I also prefer the sound of the 001 and 003 to the 002, as it has slightly less treble roll-off and slightly more bass roll-off.


----------



## rpeebles

ZGojira said:


> It's more on-ear than in-ear, i.e. the tips sit outside the ear canal and not inside.
> Overall the sound is quite nice, but it has some very strange properties. It is quite detailed (think HD800ish level), but with much smaller sound-stage (HE400ish) and low levels of separation and imaging.
> When I first heard it, I was baffled to find that it was possible for something to sound detailed, yet have so little instrument separation.
> 
> ...



Dear ZGojira, thank you for your very interesting, complete and detailed explanation. Much appreciated.

When you refer to the 003 do you refer to this combo: STAX SRS-005SMK2 (SR-003MK2+SRM-252S) ? Is it transportable system ? 
What is the sound like ? Why do yo prefer it ?

Thanks once again for all your help.

Best regards !


----------



## ZGojira

Unfortunately, no.  

I use my 003 with a 727A w/feedback mod. I have tried it once with a 252S and it was comparable to a SRS-001 system. 
With the 727A, it sounds better but I don't think it's worth the price difference unless you have other STAX cans....

My Sr003 is not MK2, so it is the same as the sr001. The sr003MK2 is the same as the sr002.
I have a preference for brighter cans, hence I prefer the 001/003 over the 002/003mk2. To me, the 002/003mk2's treble rolls off too soon.


----------



## rpeebles

ZGojira said:


> Unfortunately, no.
> 
> I use my 003 with a 727A w/feedback mod. I have tried it once with a 252S and it was comparable to a SRS-001 system.
> With the 727A, it sounds better but I don't think it's worth the price difference unless you have other STAX cans....
> ...



Once again, what can I say: just a Big Thank You !


----------



## Muffinhead

Hello all, I hope this is the right place to ask this question: would the SRM1 MK2 Pro or SRM313 be a better option for driving O2's?


----------



## AnakChan

ZGojira said:


> rpeebles said:
> 
> 
> > Dear AnakChan thank you for your valuable opinions. The thing is I have tried other technologies and am not satisfied particularly with the transparency.
> ...



Personally for me, I found it rather hard to appreciate current Stax in-ear/on-ear-canal earphones. The sound signature was just a little too rounded from what I remember - granted I didn't listen to them for long. Who knows, maybe they'll have a new closed portable earphones with different sound.


----------



## okw3188

Pokemonn said:


> Cork can helps to reduce amps/dacs' power transformers vibrations(maybe effect via caps ands stray capacitors vibrations which cause modulations of audio signals). It significantly improve Stax SS/tube(BOTH) amps SQ Imo.
> Have you ever heard Stax SS(build in power transformer type only) amps ringing? It sure does ringing if you very close(almost need to contact to amps top plate) your ears to Stax amp during you power it on. if you turn it off its gone.
> as you know, Stax amps have almost 60db(x1000 times) gains, you are actually hearing significantly amplified noises/vibrations effects. estat amps act like vibration microscope. you can use your bed and/or sofa for temporaly experiment. but i dont recommend for long time experiment, becouse bed/sofa tend to cover under plate ventilation, it can be hazardous.



Thanks for the great tip, it sure has an improvement! I used 6mm cork tiles on my SRM727A (mod).


----------



## wuwhere

Pokemonn said:


> Cork can helps to reduce amps/dacs' power transformers vibrations(maybe effect via caps ands stray capacitors vibrations which cause modulations of audio signals). It significantly improve Stax SS/tube(BOTH) amps SQ Imo.
> Have you ever heard Stax SS(build in power transformer type only) amps ringing? It sure does ringing if you very close(almost need to contact to amps top plate) your ears to Stax amp during you power it on. if you turn it off its gone.
> as you know, Stax amps have almost 60db(x1000 times) gains, you are actually hearing significantly amplified noises/vibrations effects. estat amps act like vibration microscope. you can use your bed and/or sofa for temporaly experiment. but i dont recommend for long time experiment, becouse bed/sofa tend to cover under plate ventilation, it can be hazardous.



These ones are cheap http://www.thesoundapprentice.com/2013/10/cheap-tweaks-diversitech-eva-anti.html


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## nick n (Dec 13, 2017)

Fast question on some old stuff here.

Are there any visual identifiers between the SR-3 and SR-3 "NEW" model drivers?

Can one tell the difference simply just looking at them?

 I need to restore a very rare item with the SR-3 series drivers ( 200 v ) so hope someone knows.
Not having much luck with searches so far

It's a limited audience to be sure.

Worst case I could pop them open and recoat them, but this  other option lets me buy another headphone...


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## Pokemonn (Dec 16, 2017)

okw3188 said:


> Thanks for the great tip, it sure has an improvement! I used 6mm cork tiles on my SRM727A (mod).



You are welcome!



wuwhere said:


> These ones are cheap http://www.thesoundapprentice.com/2013/10/cheap-tweaks-diversitech-eva-anti.html



wuwhere's recommendation must work! I just tried to place EVA material? mats under the SRM-727 modified(you need to float stock foots)....result! Surprise!!! SUPER SMOOTH AND SUPER RICH AND SUPER DYNAMIC AND SUPER CLEAN AND UNBELIEVABLY BEAUTIFUL SOUND!!! ITS 6000$MSRP Luxman amp level Smoothness and Richness!!!(far much better!!!) Simply stunned!!! its out of this world results!!! I JUST REACH THE END GAME!!!WOW!!! its a Xmas present from God! (Lets name this mod "Pokemonn Float Mod" LOL!just kidding. but do this mod at your own risk.DO NOT COVER UNDER VENTILATION!)
Seriously Please try it!!! You will not regret!!! its an END GAME LEVEL EFFECT!!! Finally SR-009 just killed the HD800!!!


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## Darbosa (Dec 15, 2017)

Hope this is the right place to ask the question about the inner foam dust filters (sponges) in Stax SR - Lambdas:

Is it a must to have these sponge dust filters in front of the drivers or they can be removed without exposing the drivers to risk of damage?

In my SR-303 inner foam dust filters (sponges) are worn away and crumbled and small chips of foam below the metal grid now (I guess) compromising sound.

I would avoid buying the replacement ear pads kit only for sponge filters if it is possible, because the ear pads on my SR-303 are now in mint condition and I would keep them.

Now I have removed the foam filters completely and have only bare metal grids above  the membrane drivers. Is it a bad idea?


----------



## hpeter

bmichels said:


> With my A&K SP1000 received today, my *portable battery operated Stax set-up *is now complete   .   Ready to go....


bah, stax are open as hell, any noise will be problem
no chance to wear it outside...


----------



## chinsettawong

Darbosa said:


> Hope this is the right place to ask the question about the inner foam dust filters (sponges) in Stax SR - Lambdas:
> 
> Is it a must to have these sponge dust filters in front of the drivers or they can be removed without exposing the drivers to risk of damage?
> 
> ...



It's a good idea actually.  The foams are really unnecessary, IMO.  I took them out too.


----------



## Darbosa

chinsettawong said:


> It's a good idea actually. The foams are really unnecessary, IMO. I took them out too.


provided that the mesh from original filter is pretty big it is not really good protection from fine dust anyway.


----------



## jgazal




----------



## AnakChan

AnakChan said:


> Personally for me, I found it rather hard to appreciate current Stax in-ear/on-ear-canal earphones. The sound signature was just a little too rounded from what I remember - granted I didn't listen to them for long. Who knows, *maybe they'll have a new closed portable earphones* with different sound.





jgazal said:


>



That's what I was originally hinting . But it's really the SR-002 with an enclosure? Suyama-san/FitEar did something like this too last year.


----------



## jgazal

AnakChan said:


> That's what I was originally hinting . But it's really the SR-002 with an enclosure? Suyama-san/FitEar did something like this too last year.





 

 

 
https://www.paudiofes.com/2017/12/12/post-3586/


----------



## catscratch

What the hell is up with that eartip? Does that white bit go behind your ear? I gotta say, the eartip design has always been the weakest part of the 003, more so than the isolation. The fit was uncomfortable, and affected the sound if it was wrong. But a closed design might be kinda cool... if it works.

Properly fitted, the original SR-003 was a neat sounding little thing. Pretty flat through the bass and mids, ultra fluid, but the highs were soft. When the fit was wrong, the upper mids were sucked out and it sounded distant and dull. It could also play obscenely loud, hence my tinnitus years later. Probably the best thing for female vocals ever, but in the end I got rid of all of the ones I had cause the comfort was just so bad.

Never heard the 003 Mk2, but I do hope they work this one out. A low-cost electrostatic alternative to all the IEMs whose prices are spiraling off into madness would be a good sanity check for the industry. Assuming it works, and sounds good.


----------



## jgazal

catscratch said:


> What the hell is up with that eartip? Does that white bit go behind your ear?



Although the following picture shows binaural microphones, I guess the fit is similar:


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## Jones Bob (Dec 17, 2017)

Interesting developments on the SR-002.

Messaging with Douglas Ip almost a year ago about getting a L,M,S assortment of ear tips for my SR-003MK2, and he told me to hold off, as some new ones were coming.




^SR-003MK2 with headband attached.




^SR-003MK2 earspeaker removed from headband.

The ear tips in the earlier photo are weird looking. Appears STAX is doing away with the headband when adding the covers. The new ear tips must now do the job of holding the earspeaker to the ear canal.

Nothing was mentioned on the covers. Hopefully, they will backfit existing models.


----------



## wuwhere

Just love 003Mk2 on KGST.

BTW after I cleaned all connectors (XLRs in & out, pro connectors in & out, 91% isopropyl alcohol), what an SQ improvement.


----------



## Jones Bob

Yeah, they worked well with my KGST. 

Even better now first time on my GG.


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## wuwhere (Dec 17, 2017)

e-amp makes a big difference, specially a KG amp.

First time I listened to 003 was with a 717 and I thought its not good. But don't despair, KGST is on the way.

A good dac also helps (Exogal Comet).


----------



## bearFNF

Jones Bob said:


> Interesting developments on the SR-002.
> 
> Messaging with David Ip almost a year ago about getting a L,M,S assortment of ear tips for my SR-003MK2, and he told me to hold off, as some new ones were coming.



Call me technical, but it is Douglas Ip unless there is another IP working at Stax/Edifier. 
At lest that is who I talked to, to get my 009s serviced


----------



## Jones Bob

Yup. Good catch. Corrected original.


----------



## seaice

I like 003MK2 on KGSSHV Carbon. Their size is practical in hot summer when it is not really nice to have your ears surrounded by full size heaphones.

So what is comming? A Stax portable rig?


----------



## Jones Bob

Douglas’s reply to my email:

“The once that our STAX staff is showing in Akihabara (Tokyo electronic district) this weekend is a U shape plug for SRM-002 amplifier.  Is not for SRM-003, 5 pin plug amplifier.  They don't have the cost out yet.  Most likely it will be in one month or three months.  Please be sure which once you want to buy, keep an eye on it.”

Sounds like a new portable STAX.


----------



## wuwhere

I remember a discussion about new and early 009s. It was about imbalance and brightness. The newer 009s are supposedly less prone to imbalance and less bright. Is this just an old wives tale?


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## Pokemonn (Dec 18, 2017)

you can correct 009s brightness with EQ. its very easy. 009 slight wrong mid makes brightness.
equalizations correct distortions(peaks and dips) and many software equlizers are just free.
so I personally don't need 009s successor in 2018.


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## wuwhere

Unfortunately I cannot eq.


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## Pokemonn (Dec 23, 2017)

Why not? it's ridiculously simple and easy.
I just already post "almost" correct answer for 009.
see post #13164 or shoud I post again?
simply you just need to eq gray curve to solid line. or Harman Target Curve works for many people..


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## wuwhere

My setup:

Oppo95 > DAC > KGST

My music is either in a flash drive, CD or SACD. I don’t use USB.


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## Pokemonn (Dec 19, 2017)

ah i see then you can use hardware digital eqer such as behringer DEQ2496 which have toslink in/out. connect it between oppo and DAC. deq2496 have jitter so you may need jitter free dac.


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## wuwhere

I’m a purist, the less hw between the source and the hp the less noise, distortion, attenuation, etc...


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## Pokemonn (Dec 18, 2017)

no no no... you should not be crooked.
digital eqers distorion are almost inaudible compare to EQing compensations.
google "digital equlizer distortion" then you can find very old discustions which report they are inaudible.


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## wuwhere

I’ve listened to an 009 at the last RMAF, IMO it’s much better than my 007, no brightness at all.


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## Pokemonn (Dec 22, 2017)

of course brightness maybe depend on each persons ability and or prefernces and upstream gearS etc.


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## wuwhere

I know - bright, dark, wide, narrow, fast, slow, prat - all relative and subjective. Except imbalance.


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## pichu

I want to get the STAX 353x amp. Can anyone point me to the equipment i will need to make it work in the USA. Ill need some type of transformer right?


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## JimL11 (Dec 25, 2017)

If you buy from a US dealer you don't need any step-up or step-down transformer.  If you buy from European dealer you will need a step-up transformer, if you buy from a Japanese dealer you will need a step-down transformer.  Unless you can open up the case and figure out how to reconfigure the transformer, which will involve some soldering, see posts 13573 and following above.


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## kevin gilmore

100v Japanese models need a step down transformer. Some of these are buck boost 3 wire things that usually cause ground loops, the better ones are 4 wire.

if its a 230v European model, it can always be rewired for 115v, as there are no cut wires.


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## pichu

kevin gilmore said:


> 100v Japanese models need a step down transformer. Some of these are buck boost 3 wire things that usually cause ground loops, the better ones are 4 wire.
> 
> if its a 230v European model, it can always be rewired for 115v, as there are no cut wires.


That's what I thought. Any good recommendations for a step down transformer that would work?


----------



## oktapod (Dec 26, 2017)

Hi everyone!  I've got L700 with an 006T energiser.  It works for me, truly great sound, but I've got the itch to see if I can improve on it significantly without spending the earth...

I'd sourced a UK builder of KG designs with whom I had been discussing the possibility of a KGSSHV, KGST or (maybe) a KGSSHV Carbon to match with my L700s.  I then lost my job, but now have a better job and am hoping to go back to him in the spring once I've replenished my savings etc.!

As I can't easily hear any of these, my questions are really to try to get a better idea of what improvements each possible route might offer over 006T, and also to determine whether the L700 is going to be found wanting should I end up with (say) the Carbon.  That's a fair bit more expensive, and makes me also wonder whether perhaps trading the L700 for 007s and getting the KGSSHV might be a better overall result than the L700 with Carbon. 

This would be easy if these things were possible to demo, but (in the UK anyway) there's a leap of faith required when it comes to Stax - I know I had no choice but to buy my (previous) 4040Sigs unheard, and then took the leap with the L700s.  That all worked out great, but as the costs increase I start getting a bit uneasy about the risk of making a big mistake.

Just to muddy the waters a tiny bit more, I'm not entirely ruling out the possibility of buying a set of 009s at some point in the future, and I'm not sure which of the amp options would therefore be the best choice to handle whatever I end up doing in terms of the earspeakers.  Might be I stick with L700s, go 007s or 009s.  Don't know.

Thanks!!!


----------



## wink

You're definitely overthinking things.
None of the options are less than great, it's just that some are greater than others...........


----------



## weasel1979

SR-007 with KGSSHV is audio heaven. i wholeheartedly recommend this combo!


----------



## walakalulu

Trilogy Audio also now do a Stax Energiser which you can add to your options.


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## wuwhere

I just bought a KGST to pair with an SR-007, sounds good to me. I may wind up with an SR-009 in the future but I'm not in a hurry. With a KGST, I'm done with wanting for a better e-amp. I briefly heard two BHSEs with my SR-007 before I bought a KGST, its better than a KGST. I also listened to an SR-009 on a BHSE, IMO its better than a SR-007. I never listened to a KGSSHV or Carbon. I was using a Stax SRM-717, its not a bad amp.


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## joseph69

oktapod said:


> This would be easy if these things were possible to demo, but (in the UK anyway) there's a leap of faith required when it comes to Stax - I know I had no choice but to buy my (previous) 4040Sigs unheard, and then took the leap with the L700s. That all worked out great, but as the costs increase I start getting a bit uneasy about the risk of making a big mistake.


I think this goes for most everyone, especially with wanting to hear the BHSE/Carbon/KGSShv/KGST due to them not being able to demo any of them unless you know someone with them or go to a meet. Even then, I feel you need to spend more time with each in your own system. I went through the same thing you're going through and did what I had to do by purchasing 3 out of the 4 amps mentioned above, and tried each (with different DACs as well) until I was where I wanted to be. It's pretty much the only choice you have when it comes to the KG amps. I went with the used market so I would save a bit and not lose so much when I sold to try the next.


----------



## bearwarrior

joseph69 said:


> I think this goes for most everyone, especially with wanting to hear the BHSE/Carbon/KGSShv/KGST due to them not being able to demo any of them unless you know someone with them or go to a meet. Even then, I feel you need to spend more time with each in your own system. I went through the same thing you're going through and did what I had to do by purchasing 3 out of the 4 amps mentioned above, and tried each (with different DACs as well) until I was where I wanted to be. It's pretty much the only choice you have when it comes to the KG amps. I went with the used market so I would save a bit and not lose so much when I sold to try the next.



I agree. It is a long journey. If anyone really loves this hobby, it should definitely worth the time and effort. If anyone really wants the end game, just go with the high-end component. It really is the cheapest way instead of buying and selling the upgrades in the progress. The used market is a way to go. It saves and has some good exotic stuff.


----------



## wuwhere

Just order a KGSSHV Carbon, a KGSSHV Mini, a KGSSHV Cheap, and a KGST. Just keep the one that you like and return the rest. That's about $12.9K plus shipping. I'm not sure if Mjölnir-Audio will let you do that.


----------



## Hubert481

Would be great - please put the result on Davids big comparsion thread


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## JimL11 (Dec 26, 2017)

walakalulu said:


> Trilogy Audio also now do a Stax Energiser which you can add to your options.



Well, reportedly the Trilogy amp uses 4 6C3PI single triodes and 2 6H6PI dual triodes. Based on the number and types of tubes, this means that the circuit is either similar to the DIY Stax A circuit from 1968, or the Egmont/TubeCAD circuit with diff amp input and diff amp outputs. These are the two simplest, least sophisticated possible circuits with enough gain to constitute an electrostatic amp. Any of the current Stax amps, tube or solid state, have much more sophisticated circuit designs for significantly less money than the Trilogy. We're not even considering any of the Gilmore designs, or the SRX Plus, for that matter.  In fact, based on Jason Stoddard's blog comments, Schiit Audio decided against building a similar circuit for sale as a $1000 electrostatic amplifier.


----------



## walakalulu

Yes I read that missive by some guy in Iceland who dismisses everything that he or his favoured few don’t design themselves. Having spent a few weeks listening to it comparing side by side to the Stax T8000 and their older top energiser I can confirm that the H1 sounds quite different with more depth and body than either Stax unit at the expense of some top end air and detail but you pays your money and settle on what appeals to your own ears irrespective of measurements that often bear little relationship to the final sound.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

Hey guys I'm looking for some opinions. I have a feedback modded 727A and a pair of Lambda Pros. I'm thinking about downgrading amps to a 353 (or possibly a 252) and using the extra cash to upgrade headphones, to the L300 or L500. Is this a good tradeoff, or will I end up missing my 727 and wishing I just waited longer to buy better headphones without selling it? 

I listen to EDM if that effects anything


----------



## JimL11

walakalulu said:


> Yes I read that missive by some guy in Iceland who dismisses everything that he or his favoured few don’t design themselves. Having spent a few weeks listening to it comparing side by side to the Stax T8000 and their older top energiser I can confirm that the H1 sounds quite different with more depth and body than either Stax unit at the expense of some top end air and detail but you pays your money and settle on what appeals to your own ears irrespective of measurements that often bear little relationship to the final sound.



Well, spritzer is VERY opinionated, but he is also very technically knowledgeable. I don't always agree with everything he says but I respect his opinion. In any event, technical details aside, the point is that the H1 appears to be a very simple circuit and I don't see that it is worth anywhere near what they are asking for it. If it was selling for, say, <$1000, I would consider it reasonable value.


----------



## Pahani

DJ The Rocket said:


> Hey guys I'm looking for some opinions. I have a feedback modded 727A and a pair of Lambda Pros. I'm thinking about downgrading amps to a 353 (or possibly a 252) and using the extra cash to upgrade headphones, to the L300 or L500. Is this a good tradeoff, or will I end up missing my 727 and wishing I just waited longer to buy better headphones without selling it?
> 
> I listen to EDM if that effects anything



Well, I can tell you that the Stax amps sound different, even to my untrained ears. I have not heard 727, but currently own 252S, SRM-1 Mk2 Pro, and 353X simultaneously. And while 252 isn't bad by any measure, between those three models at least, you get what you pay for and each step up is better to my ears, and in the order listed.

I fully expect BHSE and the KG energisers to sound substantially better still, but this poor boy will never be able to afford them ;p 353X is the pinnacle of what I am able to spend.

That being said, listening to EDM with my L700 + 353X combo, I substantially prefer my "fun" dynamic cans, the TH-X00 Purplehearts I've modded.

For reference, I listen to a lot of Deadmau5. I mean a LOT 

The bass in "HR 8938 Cephei" both hits harder and is more textured with the Purplehearts to my ears, and is just overall more fun. This is true for most EDM, I simply want more bass (volume) than either my Stax 207 or L700 provide. They certainly aren't horrible, I'm just spoiled by my X00's.

In "My Pet Coelacanth", I actually prefer the L700s, for added detail in the reverb effects, and what I've always perceived as a more 3D-like soundstage on the Stax..not necessarily larger mind you, but more enveloping overall. In this song, there are reverb effects that shoot up and out from your head, and I SWEAR he's consciously trying to paint the image of his mouse-head mascot with sound waves! And at least to me, this effect is much more apparent on Stax.

I watched a tour of his house on the Linus Tech Tips YouTube channel, and Deadmau5 is nearing completion of one of the very few Atmos-capable studios in the world; so it seems likely to me that the need for a 3D-like soundstage will be more important in new tracks from him.I expect I'll have a harder decision to make deciding which headphones to use for his music in the future.

I also don't EQ my system.....others who do may have different findings to report. Also, owners of L300 and L500, which I haven't heard.


----------



## JimL11

pichu said:


> That's what I thought. Any good recommendations for a step down transformer that would work?



Amazon sells the NDF-550U by Nissyo for around $65 - two wire plug rather than 3 wire plug, however.


----------



## oktapod

Following up on the L700 + KGxx amp question I posted a few days ago, would moving from my current Stax 006T energiser to a better amp (e.g. KGSSHV) achieve better results than trading my L700 for 007 or even putting more money into a pair of 009s?

Someone suggested buying everything and selling on what doesn't work.  Nice idea, but I have limited funds and so don't want to make any pricy mistakes...

Another question would be whether 009s would be a step too far for the 006T.  Or indeed the 007s.  

At present, with L700+006T, everything is in balance and although I suspect there's a fair bit of Stax magic I don't get, it's still way better than I ever got out of HD800+SPL Phonitor.  Everything just has a *rightness* to the sound, and it truly doesn't sound 'hifi' in the sense that I can just enjoy the music.  However, you know how this hobby is, and I sort of crave a bit more......

So, I could:

(a) stick where I am and be happy... yeah, right 
(b) trade L700 for 009 and keep 006T - will this sound unbalanced and wrong?  Can I live with that compromise for a year or two until I'm able then to fund a better amp?
(c) trade L700 for 007 and keep 006T - same as (b) but I'd be able to get that better amp sooner
(d) keep L700 and buy a better amp

What I can't do - in one step anyway - is switch from L700 AND buy a better amp.  And maybe that would be a mistake anyway, as I'd be struggling to understand where the improvements originated, which is sometimes fun too...


----------



## JimL11

Hard to say. As a general rule, changes in transducer make a bigger difference than changes in amplification. The KGSSHV has better drive capability than the 006T, due to the fact that the latter has plate resistors which soak up a lot of the signal current whereas the KGSSHV has constant current source loads which use very little current to operate. The SR007 in particular is considered harder to drive and for that reason will do better with a KGSSHV than the 006T. The SR009 is easier to drive so there may be less of a decrement, but again how much you will notice depends on your sensitivity to such things.  Some people don't really notice significant differences with amps compared to changing headphones, whereas others do. Things get a lot closer if you can find someone to modify the 006T to use current sources - in fact, IMHO a modified 006T is fully capable of driving an SR007 - but this is strictly DIY and will, of course, invalidate the warranty, assuming it is still in force.  Then the issue becomes whether you prefer the solid state character of the KGSSHV or the more tube-like character of the 006. 

This is one of those try before you buy, if you can - easy to say, sometimes difficult to do.


----------



## statfi

oktapod said:


> would moving from my current Stax 006T energiser to a better amp (e.g. KGSSHV) achieve better results than trading my L700 for 007 or even putting more money into a pair of 009s?


FWIW, I originally got my 009s and listened to them happily for a year with my SRM-T1 (!).  (I am into resolution, so there was not much of choice for me between the 007s and 009s.)  Getting the BHSE was a huge improvement, but I don't regret this procedure.  Doing upgrades in a bunch of steps is financially inefficient, so I am glad I did not need to do that.  A year later, when I jumped for the BHSE, HeadAmp and all their competitors at RMAF had 009s for demos, so I was more at home going from table to table using their 009s to ultimately choose the BHSE.  The only thing I would change is that I actually should have taken my own 009s to RMAF to do the auditioning of amps.


----------



## JimL11

The SRM-T1 is still a decent amp - Stax were using it as one of their reference amps until several years ago.


----------



## gilency

walakalulu said:


> Yes I read that missive by some guy in Iceland who dismisses everything that he or his favoured few don’t design themselves. Having spent a few weeks listening to it comparing side by side to the Stax T8000 and their older top energiser I can confirm that the H1 sounds quite different with more depth and body than either Stax unit at the expense of some top end air and detail but you pays your money and settle on what appeals to your own ears irrespective of measurements that often bear little relationship to the final sound.



Ha Ha. Spritzer is one of the best when it comes to electrostatics.
I would pay attention to what he says if I were you.
If Kevin Gilmore speaks: well, he is the King


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 1, 2018)

Pahani said:


> Well, I can tell you that the Stax amps sound different, even to my untrained ears. I have not heard 727, but currently own 252S, SRM-1 Mk2 Pro, and 353X simultaneously. And while 252 isn't bad by any measure, between those three models at least, you get what you pay for and each step up is better to my ears, and in the order listed.



Thank you for this! This is exactly the kind of opinion I was looking for! I suspect I would agree with you here



Pahani said:


> That being said, listening to EDM with my L700 + 353X combo, I substantially prefer my "fun" dynamic cans, the TH-X00 Purplehearts I've modded.



I found this quite surprising! I haven't tried a THx00, but I'm pretty down on dynamic drivers in general for EDM.

I'm familiar with Deadmau5, but not more than casually. I wonder if by accident or design his music works better on dynamic cans than the EDM I listen to. I know my taste in music has changed with my headphone tech, the stuff I dug before getting my Stax has much simpler, much less complex basslines compared to what I go for now. 

I really like live PAs by Monolink or Ben Bohmer, mixes by Madmotormiquel and de kustenaar's tribute series of mixes, and Crussen's old Lektern mixtapes. HVOB's Trialog EP is my go-to album for testing subbass performance   But I am going to try to find a good copy of Coelacanth to see if I hear what you're talking about


----------



## DJ The Rocket

There's a Monolink set just called "Sunset" that was a go-to set before feedback modding my 727; at one point about 20 mins in the bass drops so hard it felt like my earspeakers were going to blow off my head sideways! It was awesome, one of my all time favorite moments wearing headphones. 

It was initially disappointing after the feedback mod when this didn't happen, and it took all my willpower not to change it back right then. After getting more time with the mod, I do think it's an improvement overall. The tighter, more accurate bass almost always trumps the few times I miss the added distortion.


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## wuwhere (Jan 1, 2018)

Latest addition is the exotic GZLOZONE low noise 15vdc 5.3 amps LPS with R-core transformer imported from PRC for the Exogal Comet DAC (79w vs. 25w). This LPS is big.
I just placed them on top of the Oppo and KGST to take these images.


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## JimL11

Pahani said:


> Well, I can tell you that the Stax amps sound different, even to my untrained ears. I have not heard 727, but currently own 252S, SRM-1 Mk2 Pro, and 353X simultaneously. And while 252 isn't bad by any measure, between those three models at least, you get what you pay for and each step up is better to my ears, and in the order listed.
> 
> I fully expect BHSE and the KG energisers to sound substantially better still, but this poor boy will never be able to afford them ;p 353X is the pinnacle of what I am able to spend..



There is actually a pretty straightforward reason why those three amps sound progressively better. The 252S circuit is reportedly similar to the 323/353 circuit, but runs at a much lower output current, so if you have a tendency to crank it, it begins to run out of power. The SRM-1 Mk2 Pro circuit is somewhat different, with a similar output stage standing current to the 323/353, but uses resistors for the output load rather than the current sources used in the 252 and 323/353. This means a significant portion of the output current is wasted driving the resistors and is not available to drive the headphones, so it current limits sooner than the 323/353, and also generates more distortion as the output devices have to work harder.

The 727 in stock form suffers from its non-global feedback output stage, resulting in uncontrolled bass, among other problems - see the review in InnerFidelity for more details.  Modifying the amp to add the global feedback improves the sound significantly and is easy to do but does void the warranty.  I haven't heard the 323/353 so can't comment compared to the 727. I personally prefer my refurbed and modified SRM-T1 with constant current output loads, but that's just me.


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## hpeter

after a almost 2 weeks without stax on my head (holidays) today i´m back...
like living the dream once again LOL
(that time* being away was very hard*, like drug addict)


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## jcn3

all,

my stax rig is l700s driven by an srm-007t.  i'm finding the set-up a bit too laid back and would like to get more punch out of it.  can this be done with tubes?  any recommendations?


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## rpeebles

Hello there !
I did finally get the King Sound KS-04 and portable M3. Sounds awesome ! Very neutral, not bright but not very high volume.

But as always...I am now looking into a STAX combo. Looking into the SRD - X Pro portable amplifier - from ebay or the SRM T1 - from ebay. On the earspeaker side the L-700 or SR-007A.

Would it work ? How good ?

It seems I could also use the KS M3 with the L-700 and/or the SR-007. How would that work ? Any experience.

Or if not, what would be the most appropriate and not too expensive amp for the L-700 - 353x?

Sorry many doubts ! 

I would like a relatively Bright and Detailed sound, as a complement to my KingSound arrangement.

Please your help - recommendations much appreciated !


----------



## JimL11

rpeebles said:


> Hello there !
> I did finally get the King Sound KS-04 and portable M3. Sounds awesome ! Very neutral, not bright but not very high volume.
> 
> But as always...I am now looking into a STAX combo. Looking into the SRD - X Pro portable amplifier - from ebay or the SRM T1 - from ebay. On the earspeaker side the L-700 or SR-007A.
> ...



The M3 definitely doesn't have enough output to drive the SR-007. It's not a question of voltage swing as lack of current output in a portable amp. The SRM252 is in the same class. The 353X has enough voltage and current output to drive either the L700 or the SR-007, although driving the latter also depends on how loudly you listen. The SRM-T1 in stock form is good for the L700, somewhat marginal for the SR-007. Modified, the SRM-T1 can drive either. HTH.


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## DJ The Rocket

JimL11 said:


> It's not a question of voltage swing as lack of current output in a portable amp.



At 580V, is there really any current to speak of in the first place?


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## JimL11 (Jan 5, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> At 580V, is there really any current to speak of in the first place?



Well, not a lot, but....

So, the SRM-252M has a reported quiescent current of around 1.3 mA/device, with 2 output devices/channel. The SRM-T1 has a quiescent current of about 4.8 mA/tube plate (2 plates/channel). Since these amps are push-pull, this means the maximum output current of the 252 is 2.6 mA peak, the SRM-T1 is 9.6 mA peak. It's actually less because there is some output current which is burned up in the feedback resistors. Now, Kevin Gilmore has reported measuring the SR-007 as using up to one watt peak - not sure if that is both channels together or one channel only - we will assume both channels together to be more conservative, so assume 1/2 watt/channel.  Of course, the wattage burned in the headphones depends on how loud you listen, but at least this gives us an idea.

if we assume a voltage peak of, say 200 volts, this means that there is 2.5 mA peak current. This is as high as the 252 can deliver, even without feedback resistors.  The T1 has 2 sets of 153 kilohm feedback resistors for each channel, plus two sets of  66 kilohm plate resistors for each channel, which all together uses up about 8.6 mA peak, which leaves 1 mA/channel to drive the headphones. Now, I don't know about you, but 1 mA is less than 2.5 mA where I come from. So, yeah, there is some current to speak of.


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## rpeebles

JimL11 said:


> The M3 definitely doesn't have enough output to drive the SR-007. It's not a question of voltage swing as lack of current output in a portable amp. The SRM252 is in the same class. The 353X has enough voltage and current output to drive either the L700 or the SR-007, although driving the latter also depends on how loudly you listen. The SRM-T1 in stock form is good for the L700, somewhat marginal for the SR-007. Modified, the SRM-T1 can drive either. HTH.



Dear Jim...Thank You Very Much for your very clarifying answer !! Much appreciated.

Would the M3 be able to power the L-700 ? Soundwise any good ?

In terms of sound how do the L-700 & SR-007 compare ? I would like a relatively Bright and Detailed sound, as a complement to my KingSound arrangement.

Or should I simply go for the *STAX SRS-5100 - L-500 + SRM-353X ?

Thanks once again for your help !*


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## JimL11 (Jan 6, 2018)

The M3 should be able to power the L700. I have no idea how it sounds as I have never heard one.  In fact, I've never heard any of Kingsound's stuff. However, based on Kevin Gilmore's published schematics from reverse engineering, the M10 is a copy of the Stax SRA10 from 1974 except for using FETS in place of BJTs, and M20 is based on a Stax DIY design from 1968, so I am not optimistic that it compares with Stax's current amps. BTW, both the M10 and M20 lack the output safety resistors that are standard in all the current Stax amps. The M03 as I understand it has transformer outputs which provide protection in case of amp failure. Perhaps it is based on the Stax SD-X, which I believe used a transformer output driven by a chip amp, since they appear to ripped off their other designs from Stax. Not that there's anything wrong with that, if you're going to rip off, do it from the best. Though I suppose the reason for using 40-50 year old schematics is to avoid infringement issues rather than advancing the state of the art. However given the size limitations of a portable setup the frequency response particularly at bass frequencies may be restricted.

I haven't heard the L700, but most people seem to feel that the 007 is in a higher category, although there are some that prefer the L700 to the 007. However, the 007 is significantly harder to drive well than the L700, and tends to be on the dark side if under driven, so it may not be to your taste. Note that Bob Katz, the well known recording engineer, considers a port-modded 007 Mk II to be very close to neutral except for a mild bass lack. My modded 007 sounds neutral to me, driven by a DIY SRX Plus.


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## kevin gilmore

The 580v is the bias, thru a 5 meg resistor. Maximum current is 10ua, even when the diaphragm shorts to a stator.

All stax amps can be considered to be bridged amplifiers. So the voltage doubles, not the current.
The headphones are pure capacitors, so voltage and current are out of phase resulting in virtually no real power.
However the amplifier definitely sees the power as real. At 20khz, the headphones can pull the equivalent of more than 1 watt per channel.


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## JimL11 (Jan 6, 2018)

kevin gilmore said:


> The headphones are pure capacitors, so voltage and current are out of phase resulting in virtually no real power.



Well, I would disagree with that statement. It is true that electrostatic headphones resemble capacitors, except that pure capacitors do not produce sound. Headphones do produce sound (duh), and since sound is a form of energy, that means that by the law of conservation of energy, they must drain real power from the amplifier. That in turn means that there must be a  component of voltage and current that is IN phase, otherwise, no real power would be consumed.


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## rpeebles

JimL11 said:


> The M3 should be able to power the L700. I have no idea how it sounds as I have never heard one.  In fact, I've never heard any of Kingsound's stuff. However, based on Kevin Gilmore's published schematics from reverse engineering, the M10 is a copy of the Stax SRA10 from 1974 except for using FETS in place of BJTs, and M20 is based on a Stax DIY design from 1968, so I am not optimistic that it compares with Stax's current amps. BTW, both the M10 and M20 lack the output safety resistors that are standard in all the current Stax amps. The M03 as I understand it has transformer outputs which provide protection in case of amp failure. Perhaps it is based on the Stax SD-X, which I believe used a transformer output driven by a chip amp, since they appear to ripped off their other designs from Stax. Not that there's anything wrong with that, if you're going to rip off, do it from the best. Though I suppose the reason for using 40-50 year old schematics is to avoid infringement issues rather than advancing the state of the art. However given the size limitations of a portable setup the frequency response particularly at bass frequencies may be restricted.
> 
> I haven't heard the L700, but most people seem to feel that the 007 is in a higher category, although there are some that prefer the L700 to the 007. However, the 007 is significantly harder to drive well than the L700, and tends to be on the dark side if under driven, so it may not be to your taste. Note that Bob Katz, the well known recording engineer, considers a port-modded 007 Mk II to be very close to neutral except for a mild bass lack. My modded 007 sounds neutral to me, driven by a DIY SRX Plus.



Thank You Jim...That is Very Kind and instructive from your part !!

In the meantime I have been offered a STAX SRM T1, in supposed to be as new condition, and for the sum of USD 650. Anything good there ? Or would you just go for the New STAX SRM-353x ?

By the same person - ebay- I am being offered the STAX 404 Signature. Combination of STAX SRM T1 + STAX 404 Signature USD 1.099. Anything good here ?

Thank you in advance !


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## rpeebles

rpeebles said:


> Thank You Jim...That is Very Kind and instructive from your part !!
> 
> In the meantime I have been offered a STAX SRM T1, in supposed to be as new condition, and for the sum of USD 650. Anything good there ? Or would you just go for the New STAX SRM-353x ?
> 
> ...



One more question...sorry !....has the STAX 404 Signature have the same number of pins as the L-700. Thinking of compatibility with the KS M3.


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## wuwhere

rpeebles said:


> One more question...sorry !....has the STAX 404 Signature have the same number of pins as the L-700. Thinking of compatibility with the KS M3.



Yes.  https://www.headfonia.com/sr-404le-sr-404-signature-and-sr-lambda-pro/3/


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## JimL11

rpeebles said:


> Thank You Jim...That is Very Kind and instructive from your part !!
> 
> In the meantime I have been offered a STAX SRM T1, in supposed to be as new condition, and for the sum of USD 650. Anything good there ? Or would you just go for the New STAX SRM-353x ?
> 
> ...



I  like the T1 quite a bit, but it is over 20 years old, so at a minimum should have all the electrolytic capacitors replaced as routine maintenance - that's less than $100 in parts. Electrolytic caps can deteriorate sitting on the shelf, so that's a precautionary measure. In stock form the T1 is well liked for driving any Lambda series headphone, and modified with constant current loads it is capable of driving the 007.



rpeebles said:


> One more question...sorry !....has the STAX 404 Signature have the same number of pins as the L-700. Thinking of compatibility with the KS M3.



All the Pro bias headphones have the same jack.


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## Muffinhead

rpeebles said:


> Thank You Jim...That is Very Kind and instructive from your part !!
> 
> In the meantime I have been offered a STAX SRM T1, in supposed to be as new condition, and for the sum of USD 650. Anything good there ? Or would you just go for the New STAX SRM-353x ?
> 
> ...


I got my T1 for 525 shipped so I would suggest you find a better deal.


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## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> modified with constant current loads it is capable of driving the 007.
> What would such a modification entail doing?


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## rpeebles

wuwhere said:


> Yes.  https://www.headfonia.com/sr-404le-sr-404-signature-and-sr-lambda-pro/3/



Wuwhere...thank you !!


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## rpeebles

Muffinhead said:


> I got my T1 for 525 shipped so I would suggest you find a better deal.



Muffinhead....Thank you !!


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## rpeebles

JimL11 said:


> I  like the T1 quite a bit, but it is over 20 years old, so at a minimum should have all the electrolytic capacitors replaced as routine maintenance - that's less than $100 in parts. Electrolytic caps can deteriorate sitting on the shelf, so that's a precautionary measure. In stock form the T1 is well liked for driving any Lambda series headphone, and modified with constant current loads it is capable of driving the 007.
> 
> 
> 
> All the Pro bias headphones have the same jack.



Thank you Jim...that is very important: I am sure they have not done any maintanance...don´t want to bring it all the way down to Chile and it fails - no STAX repairs locally ! Safer to stay with newer models. What would be a good combo with the L-700 ? 323x any good or preferably another ?
Thanks for your help !


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## rpeebles

rpeebles said:


> Muffinhead....Thank you !!



Thought it seemed expensive...specially now knowing its 20 years old !


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## JimL11

@Muffinhead:
The modification of the T1 consists of replacing the eight 33 kilohm plate resistors with four MOSFET cascode current sources (and required heatsink) set for 4.9 mA.  What this does is to remove the current consumed by those plate resistors when the tubes swing signal current, so a significantly higher proportion of the signal current goes to actually driving the headphones. There are a couple other recommended changes. The modification is published in the July 2017 issue of AudioXpress - back issues available from their website. I demoed the mod for an acquaintance using a port-modded SR007, alongside a BHSE. He thought the BHSE was more refined, but it's also a lot more expensive.

@rpeebles:
As far as the T1, although it is old enough to vote, it is a pretty reliable design as the parts are used conservatively. In fact, many of them still are running their original tubes, and with routine maintenance such as capacitor replacement (can be done by any competent technician) should still be good for years to come. And the average price on eBay for them these days is around $600, although there is a good amount of variation, so $650 is not out of the ballpark, especially for a mint sample.


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## Muffinhead

@JimL11 thanks - is there a better stock Stax amp that can drive Omega II's? I'm not really digging the job the T1's are doing. I am willing to go up to $600, and would also consider third party amps as well. 
@rpeebles If you're interested I'm considering selling my T1.


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## JimL11

What don't you like about the T1? The only stock Stax amps new or used for $600 or less that can drive the SR007 are the SRM313/323/353 series, although it can sound a bit dry. The 717 and 727 are going to run around $1000 used, and third party amp prices generally run as high or higher than Stax amps. There is no other inexpensive option for the SR007 unless you're willing to DIY, and the easiest and cheapest DIY option is modifying the T1, which costs less than $!00 in parts. Otherwise we're talking about building an amp from circuit boards, transformer, a bunch of loose electronic parts and chassis with heatsinks, and even then you might have to spend more than $600.


----------



## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> What don't you like about the T1? The only stock Stax amps new or used for $600 or less that can drive the SR007 are the SRM313/323/353 series, although it can sound a bit dry. The 717 and 727 are going to run around $1000 used, and third party amp prices generally run as high or higher than Stax amps. There is no other inexpensive option for the SR007 unless you're willing to DIY, and the easiest and cheapest DIY option is modifying the T1, which costs less than $!00 in parts. Otherwise we're talking about building an amp from circuit boards, transformer, a bunch of loose electronic parts and chassis with heatsinks, and even then you might have to spend more than $600.


I find it a bit too dark and "flabby" with its sound. I also feel that the bass could be a little more defined and punchy with a SS amp (I have a port-modded SR007).


----------



## wuwhere

Muffinhead said:


> I find it a bit too dark and "flabby" with its sound. I also feel that the bass could be a little more defined and punchy with a SS amp (I have a port-modded SR007).



The 717 can be dark and the bass not as tight.


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## JimL11 (Jan 6, 2018)

Muffinhead said:


> I find it a bit too dark and "flabby" with its sound. I also feel that the bass could be a little more defined and punchy with a SS amp (I have a port-modded SR007).



Those are the classic complaints with the T1 driving the 007, and are significantly improved with the constant current loads.


----------



## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> Those are the classic complaints with the T1 driving the 007, and are significantly improved with the constant current loads.


Alright. I looked for that issue of audioxpress except it's behind a paywall. Are there instructions elsewhere that I can find? Thanks for your help.


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## jgazal (Jan 6, 2018)

kevin gilmore said:


> The 580v is the bias, thru a 5 meg resistor. Maximum current is 10ua, even when the diaphragm shorts to a stator.
> 
> All stax amps can be considered to be bridged amplifiers. So the voltage doubles, not the current.
> The headphones are pure capacitors, so voltage and current are out of phase resulting in virtually no real power.
> However the amplifier definitely sees the power as real. At 20khz, the headphones can pull the equivalent of more than 1 watt per channel.





JimL11 said:


> Well, I would disagree with that statement. It is true that electrostatic headphones resemble capacitors, except that pure capacitors do not produce sound. Headphones do produce sound (duh), and since sound is a form of energy, that means that by the law of conservation of energy, they must drain real power from the amplifier. That in turn means that there must be a  component of voltage and current that is IN phase, otherwise, no real power would be consumed.



With due respect, I see the words “virtually” and the expression “however the amplifier definitely sees the power as real” as a similar way to state your explanation.

Dr. Gilmore saw a misconception that was not explained in your post, that the 580V is usually associated to the bias voltage and is not the theoretical maximum voltage the stators can be driven, that, AFAIK, is a little lower than the power supply voltages.

It is so rare to see engineers helping consumers to see the technical side of products and I feel, as a layman who has been reading what Dr. Gilmore posted in the last decade, that such help is utterly important, so I just wanted to politely say, JimL11, that your post may be interpreted - by those that are not used to read what both of you brilliantly explain - as fire. And that feeling could be detrimental to the community, even if those who are used to read such explanations, can identify such post as friendly fire.

That said, there is still an underlying doubt/mistery to me. I have read your brilliant explanation about the energy content and how much that energy is spread over frequencies, particularly over bass frequencies:



JimL11 said:


> Any kind of EQ can significantly modify the power requirements, but it also depends on how the EQ is distributed.  *If you look at the power distribution of music, the most "wattage" tends to be in the 60 to 500 Hz region, whereas the high frequencies take relatively little power.*  Also note that the power distribution of music also depends to some degree on what type of music you are listening to, although in general the power demands above 2-4 kHz are 5-20 dB lower, as pretty much all fundamental music frequencies are at or below 4 kHz, which is the highest that a piccolo or piano goes to.  This is why tweeters in a speaker rated for 200 watts may only be rated a 1-2 watts and yet won't burn up.  Now, bumping up the level by 3 dB, which is a relatively modest increase in volume, requires 2x the power.  *If you do this in the power region of music, say from 50 to 500 Hz, the overall power demand may double whereas if you do it at 10 kHz, where there is very little power used to begin with, the overall power demand may change very little.*  And of course, if the EQ drops a band by 3 dB over the entire 60-500 Hz region, you may need only half the power.
> 
> An example of this is the SR007 vs SR009.  If you look at the specs, they are only about 1 dB apart in output at 1 kHz, however the 007 produces a few dB less sound in the 2-5 kHz region, which is the frequency range the ear tends to use to judge the overall loudness of the sound.  So if you adjust them to sound subjectively the same loudness you have to crank up the volume a couple notches, which could represent 2-4x the power demand.  This is likely why the SR-007 is considered much more power hungry than the 009 even though the specifications are very similar.
> 
> ...



Dr. Gilmore says that, at 20khz, the headphones can pull the equivalent of more than 1 watt per channel.

How much the headphones can pull at *say from 50 to 500 Hz?*

I am still having difficulties to understand loads that are predominantly inductive/resistive loads versus predominantly capacitive.

I thought that predominantly capacitive loads demanded more energy in high frequencies (20khz) and that predominantly inductive/resistive demanded more energy at low frequencies (say from 50 to 500 hz).

Would you please help me to understand where I am failing?


----------



## JimL11

Nope. I think you can buy the issue for $10.


----------



## JimL11

jgazal said:


> With due respect, I see the words “virtually” and the expression “however the amplifier definitely sees the power as real” as a similar way to state your explanation.
> 
> Dr. Gilmore says that, at 20khz, the headphones can pull the equivalent of more than 1 watt per channel.
> 
> ...



Well, Dr. GIlmore tends to be terse, whereas I tend to be wordy.  So here goes.

So, there are a number of questions here. First, an easy way to determine whether a load is resistive, capacitative or inductive. The impedance describes the relationship between voltage and current as a function of frequency - it is a generalization of idea of resistance for AC frequencies, which includes the ratio between voltage and current,  but also includes the phase relationship between voltage and current. A pure resistive load has a constant ratio between voltage and current with frequency (constant impedance), with a pure inductive load the ratio between voltage and current increases linearly with frequency (increasing impedance), and the ratio between voltage and current in a pure capacitative load decreases inversely with frequency (decreasing impedance). This means that for the same voltage, the current through a resistor is constant with frequency, the current decreases linearly with frequency for an inductor and increases inversely with frequency for a capacitor. However, with AC frequencies there is also a phase relationship between voltage and current - with a pure resistive load, the voltage and current are completely in phase, with a pure capacitor or inductor the voltage and current are 90 degrees out of phase. Real components are not purely resistive, inductive or capacitative, but mixtures of two or three of them. So, for example, if you look at the impedance of a real capacitor, it will decrease with frequency up to some point, then may start to increase as an inductive component appears.

A simple way to picture the phase relationship between voltage and current is to take a capacitor that is charging and discharging as you run a sine wave across it. As the voltage rises from zero, charge flows into it (current), as the voltage rises to a maximum, the current flow slows and stops, as the voltage decreases, the charge flows out of it, and as the voltage hits zero, the current flow out is maximum, then as the voltage decreases below zero and hits its negative maximum, the charge flow out slows and stops, then as the negative voltage decreases, the charge starts to flow back in. So the current flow is maximum when the voltage is zero and zero when the voltage is maximum (either positive or negative). 

What you are probably thinking of when you say that capacitative loads demand more energy in high frequencies while inductive loads demand more energy at low frequencies, is that the impedance number (the ratio between voltage and current) is lower for capacitors at high frequencies and lower for inductors at low frequencies. But the impedance number is not the same as the energy "demand."

The amount of energy that is "burned up" is voltage x current. For DC this is straightforward, for AC, you have to take into account the phase between voltage and current. For a pure resistor, voltage and current are in phase, so energy is indeed burned up in a resistor. For a pure capacitor or inductor, the voltage and current are 90 degrees out of phase, so when you multiply voltage x current over a full cycle, the result is zero. Again, picture the pure capacitor - as the AC cycle varies across it, the charge sloshes in and out of the capacitor, but because this action is "frictionless" no energy is used up. In fact, of the three, capacitor, inductor and resistor, only a resistor burns up energy.

So, we need to be precise in our terminology. Impedance and energy are two different things. Impedance refers to the ratio and the phase between voltage and current. Energy is the product of voltage x current (taking phase into account). The impedance of a resistor is constant, the impedance of an inductor increases with frequency and the impedance of a capacitor decreases with frequency. If we look at an impedance graph of a headphone, if it is flat with frequency we know that it is behaving like a resistor in that range, and also that the voltage and current are in phase. If we see that the impedance is rising with frequency, we know that there is an inductive component (there may be a resistive one as well) and that the voltage and current are at least partially out of phase, and if the impedance is falling with frequency we know that there is a capacitative component ( again, there may be a resistive component as well) and the voltage and current are at least partially out of phase.

With real headphones, there is always a resistive component to the impedance. That resistive part is largely due to the real wires in the voice coil, which have resistance, but also to some small degree, to the fact that it is making sound, which is energy, and which therefore must be supplied by the amplifier. Usually, that sound energy is only a small proportion of the energy that is burned up due to the voice coil resistance, etc.  Which is another way of saying that the efficiency of the headphone is low, as most of the energy supplied by the amp is burned up as heat.

Electrostatic headphones don't have voice-coils of course, but they make sound (which takes energy) and also are not very efficient so again, a significant part of the energy that is supplied by the amp is burned up as heat.

Now, let's get back for a moment to the spectrum of energy in music, which tends to be maximum in the 50-500 Hz range, and look at the implications for electrostatic headphones in particular. What this means is that the bulk of energy that is burned up in the headphones as sound and/or heat occurs in this region. Since electrostatic headphone amplifiers are more or less voltage sources, this means that the output voltages are proportional to the square root of the energy, which in turn means that the maximum voltage and in-phase current occurs at these frequencies (remember, energy is voltage x current). For electrostatic headphones, their impedance is highest in this region, which means that the out-of-phase current demands in this region are relatively low, although, because the absolute voltages are highest, the absolute out-of-phase current may be fairly high.  At high frequencies (say, 5000-20 kHz), the amount of musical energy is relatively low, so voltage is lower, in-phase current is lower, but the impedance is relatively low so the relative amount of out-of-phase current is higher (the absolute amount of out-of-phase current may or may not be higher depending on the frequencies involved). 

Finally, Dr, Gilmore's statement that the SR007 can pull 1 watt per channel at 20 kHz doesn't have any information on the output voltage or current, or the sound pressure output of the headphones, to make a useful comment. I cannot say how much the headphones will pull at 50 Hz or 500 Hz.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

JimL11 said:


> Otherwise we're talking about building an amp from circuit boards, transformer, a bunch of loose electronic parts and chassis with heatsinks, and even then you might have to spend more than $600.



Well sure, but did you tell him how much fun it is building an amp from circuit boards, transformer, a bunch of loose electronic parts and chassis with heatsinks?


----------



## DJ The Rocket

I got a SR-407 today, now the second Lambda I've heard/owned! I'm pretty stoked, I think this sound sig is going to work better for me than the older more ethereal lambda I have. But the Stax farts, oh my god! 

I've seen it explained that Stax farts are actually a good thing, they bring you bass and don't actually do any damage to anything in there no matter what kind of damage it sounds like it's doing. So, as I see it, there's just one reasonable course of action for me: learn to love the fart. 

Sorry if all this is plainly obvious to all you old farts here, but I'm just starting my first fart phase and it's all so new and intense. 

Anyway I thought what better way to get used to it than to step up and own it, you can't effectively make fun of me if I'm wearing my farts confidently on my sleeve. Thinking about sleeves led to thinking about T-shirts, and bam! I knew what I needed to do. STAX FART TSHIRTS! I am so wearing this to RMAF next year:


 

There's so much you can do with it! Just think how surprised the lady-fi'er in your life will be when you give her this: 

 

I'm thinking about making my entire wardrobe STAX FART shirts, different fonts for different days, or to express different moods: 

 

I guess it's fine if anyone here wants to copy my idea, I mean before long everyone's going to be wearing one anyway so you might as well go ahead. 

If you see somebody on the street in a STAX FART shirt, think about giving them a hug, because they're probably dealing with some serious issues getting to their audio nirvana


----------



## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> Nope. I think you can buy the issue for $10.


OK, how much in parts are we talking here? I have some basic soldering skills; is this a complicated process?


----------



## JimL11 (Jan 7, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> Well sure, but did you tell him how much fun it is building an amp from circuit boards, transformer, a bunch of loose electronic parts and chassis with heatsinks?



LOL!  Good point. Although not everyone enjoys doing that.



Muffinhead said:


> OK, how much in parts are we talking here? I have some basic soldering skills; is this a complicated process?



So, the replacement electrolytic capacitors are around $60 from Mouser. There are 10 of them.

The parts for the constant current sources are around $35, including the heatsink, which can be bought off eBay.  Each constant current source consists of 5 parts, one DN2540 MOSFET, one 10M90S current source, one 100 ohm resistor, one 1 kilohm resistor, and one resistor you'll have to adjust to get approximately 4.9 mA current through the current source. This resistor can also consist of a fixed resistor plus a pot. I just bought a bunch of resistors of different values and substituted them in place until I found the one that gave me the value I needed. You'll need a voltage supply to measure the current (a 9V batter will work), and can use a spare 100 ohm resistor to measure the current - instructions in the article.

You'll need to drill a few holes in the side of the chassis to mount the heatsink and you'll need to tap the heatsink to mount it. The 10M90s MOSFETS should be mounted to the heatsink using aluminum oxide thermal pads Aavid 4170G and #4 shoulder washers to isolate the #4 mounting screw and heatsink from the MOSFET.

A suitable heatsink is: https://www.ebay.com/itm/150mm-X-60...592625&hash=item41c3780404:g:QDUAAOSwlndZBACM. 

It is the correct height and thickness but will need to be cut to length. I mounted it using four 1"  #4 hex aluminum standoffs (screw end at one end and screw hole at the other), using the built-in screw to attach to the heatsink, and #4 screws into the standoff to attach the heatsink to the chassis.

Also, one part I left out is that the bias supply should have a 4.7 megohm resistor going to the bias terminal on the output socket. The easiest way to do that is to desolder the wire from the circuit board to the terminal at the circuit board and solder the resistor to the circuit board at one end and the wire at the other. The Mouser part for this is:
*VR37000004704JA100. *

After you complete the modification you will have to re-balance and re-bias the outputs to set them to zero volts. You can find instructions to do this in the article and also on the internet.


----------



## Muffinhead

@JimL11 thanks! So the magazine article will have step by step instructions for all of this?


----------



## Muffinhead

@JimL11 Also, any brands or types of these parts I should be going for?


----------



## JimL11

I used 1/4 watt metal film resistors for the current sources, but the brand isn't particularly critical, as there should be little audio signal current going through them - that's the whole idea. As far as the electrolytic capacitors, Nichicon is good. Make sure that the caps you order are the same size as those you are replacing. You can use larger capacitance ones for the four primary power supply caps as they have gotten smaller for the same capacitance. I specify this in the article. It isn't exactly step by step, but it gives an outline of what to do.


----------



## rpeebles

JimL11 said:


> @Muffinhead:
> The modification of the T1 consists of replacing the eight 33 kilohm plate resistors with four MOSFET cascode current sources (and required heatsink) set for 4.9 mA.  What this does is to remove the current consumed by those plate resistors when the tubes swing signal current, so a significantly higher proportion of the signal current goes to actually driving the headphones. There are a couple other recommended changes. The modification is published in the July 2017 issue of AudioXpress - back issues available from their website. I demoed the mod for an acquaintance using a port-modded SR007, alongside a BHSE. He thought the BHSE was more refined, but it's also a lot more expensive.
> 
> @rpeebles:
> As far as the T1, although it is old enough to vote, it is a pretty reliable design as the parts are used conservatively. In fact, many of them still are running their original tubes, and with routine maintenance such as capacitor replacement (can be done by any competent technician) should still be good for years to come. And the average price on eBay for them these days is around $600, although there is a good amount of variation, so $650 is not out of the ballpark, especially for a mint sample.




Hello Jim thank you once again ! Much appreciated.

I did enquire a bit more about the T1 and... as was expected...no maintenance whatsoever. So I will stick to newer equipment.

So the summary of the situation is:

I have the King Sound KS-04 Headphones and portable M3 amp. Very neutral, not bright, quite laid back and only low volume.

I would like a relatively Bright and very Detailed sound as a complement to my King Sound arrangement.

I have been looking into the STAX -L500, L-700 0r SR-007A. Which of these would best fill my needs ? With what you have suggested I am inclined towards the L-700 - would that be correct ?

On the Amp side I understand that the KS M3 can manage the STAX Headphones - If anybody has any experience...any good ?

What would be the best amp for the recommended Headphones - SRM 353x or another ?

Or should I just decide for the SRS - 5100 combo ?

*Your recommendations will be once again much appreciated. Many thanks for your help !*

Best regards,

Robert


----------



## Muffinhead

Hey @JimL11, just bought the magazine issue. Although I clearly don't have the parts yet, I opened up the chassis to familiarize myself with simply taking off the pcb, and I could get off all the nuts that connect to the standoffs except for one stubborn %$^$#^$#!.I noticed this one had a washer underneath it. How do i go about removing this nut?


----------



## JimL11

No, no, leave the PCB in the chassis!  You can take off the top and bottom covers, and that exposes both sides of the PCB. That is all you need. You'll actually need the PCB in the chassis when you mount the heatsink to the side of the chassis, because the current sources are mounted on the heatsink, and the wires from those current sources go to the PCB. Here is a picture.


----------



## kevin gilmore (Jan 8, 2018)

if you want to have boards made, this hangs of the side, no need to drill holes. easy to adjust the currents.

I have no idea why the attached board file does not show up.


----------



## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> I used 1/4 watt metal film resistors for the current sources, but the brand isn't particularly critical, as there should be little audio signal current going through them - that's the whole idea. As far as the electrolytic capacitors, Nichicon is good. Make sure that the caps you order are the same size as those you are replacing. You can use larger capacitance ones for the four primary power supply caps as they have gotten smaller for the same capacitance. I specify this in the article. It isn't exactly step by step, but it gives an outline of what to do.


Do they have to be exactly the same size? I'm browsing mouser right now and can't seem to find ones with the same size even with a higher capacitance.


----------



## rpeebles

rpeebles said:


> Hello Jim thank you once again ! Much appreciated.
> 
> I did enquire a bit more about the T1 and... as was expected...no maintenance whatsoever. So I will stick to newer equipment.
> 
> ...



@JimL11  Dear Jim if you could give me a hand with my decision tree. It would be much appreciated. Thanks !!


----------



## statfi

What experience have 009 and 007 owners had with replacing the ear pads for "routine" maintenance?
How often should they be replaced?
What was your experience with the change in sound quality due to replacement?
Are there any choices to make, or just get them from Stax?
I have had my 009's for ~5 years and have.used them somewhere between 2000 and 4000 hours.


----------



## zolkis

statfi said:


> What experience have 009 and 007 owners had with replacing the ear pads for "routine" maintenance?
> How often should they be replaced?
> What was your experience with the change in sound quality due to replacement?
> Are there any choices to make, or just get them from Stax?
> I have had my 009's for ~5 years and have.used them somewhere between 2000 and 4000 hours.



Just get them from Stax, price is the same. 

Replace when the leather degrades (many-many years), or when the foam becomes soggy (many years again). For me they have been keeping up very well, but from what I hear others may need to change them every couple of years. The usual leather care products may be used.

Sound quality with new pads may change slightly especially with the 007, but with the 009 it's been very consistent in my experience. However, it may take months until I receive the new pads from my Stax distributor, I take that into account.


----------



## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> Do they have to be exactly the same size? I'm browsing mouser right now and can't seem to find ones with the same size even with a higher capacitance.



Main criterion is that they fit in the same space, so the diameter should be the same size - the height isn't an issue except possibly with the four large PS caps - they can't be too tall.

This is what I used:
2 - United Chemicon EKMG350ETC470ME11D 47uf/35V
2 - Elna RFS-50V330MH4#5 33 uf/50V (10 uf original)
2 - Panasonic EEU-FR1A271 270 uf/10V (original value 220 uf)
4 - Nichicon UPT2G331MRD 330 uf/400V (original 100 uf)

I imagine there are others that would work as well.



rpeebles said:


> @JimL11  Dear Jim if you could give me a hand with my decision tree. It would be much appreciated. Thanks !!



I can't help much, because I haven't heard the L500 or L700. The SR007 is pretty neutral for my tastes, but it is also more demanding in terms of the amplifier - the M3 is not going to do a very good job with those as they just don't have enough power.


----------



## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> Main criterion is that they fit in the same space, so the diameter should be the same size - the height isn't an issue except possibly with the four large PS caps - they can't be too tall.
> 
> This is what I used:
> 2 - United Chemicon EKMG350ETC470ME11D 47uf/35V
> ...


----------



## rpeebles

JimL11 said:


> Main criterion is that they fit in the same space, so the diameter should be the same size - the height isn't an issue except possibly with the four large PS caps - they can't be too tall.
> 
> This is what I used:
> 2 - United Chemicon EKMG350ETC470ME11D 47uf/35V
> ...



Dear Jim, thank you. You have been very helpful !


----------



## statfi

zolkis said:


> Replace when the leather degrades (many-many years), or when the foam becomes soggy (many years again).


Thanks!


----------



## Muffinhead

@JimL11 I cannot, for the life of me, find a "DN4250 N-channel MOSFET" transistor on mouser. Any ideas?


----------



## Muffinhead

Muffinhead said:


> @JimL11 I cannot, for the life of me, find a "DN4250 N-channel MOSFET" transistor on mouser. Any ideas?


Actually, I figured out you meant DN2450, so I found two models with different continous drain current values - does this matter?


----------



## pham (Jan 9, 2018)

Stax SR-009 and its gang...


----------



## DJ The Rocket

Is there a way to adjust the fit of the SR-x07 model Lambdas? I have a 407, and the clamp pressure is killing me. If I use my hands to pull the earcups apart just slightly it's fine, but otherwise it's so bad that it doesn't matter what they sound like. 

I don't have any real hope that the old trick of leaving them gripped on the box overnight will work due to the plastic headband, and I don't want to risk doing anything that the next owner might not like because I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to sell them. 

Are all the new Lambdas like this? My next choice is the L300, but if it's got the same clamp I'd rather not bother.


----------



## Pahani

DJ The Rocket said:


> Is there a way to adjust the fit of the SR-x07 model Lambdas? I have a 407, and the clamp pressure is killing me. If I use my hands to pull the earcups apart just slightly it's fine, but otherwise it's so bad that it doesn't matter what they sound like.
> 
> I don't have any real hope that the old trick of leaving them gripped on the box overnight will work due to the plastic headband, and I don't want to risk doing anything that the next owner might not like because I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to sell them.
> 
> Are all the new Lambdas like this? My next choice is the L300, but if it's got the same clamp I'd rather not bother.



I can't attest to L300 fitment, have not tried them. But compared to my 207's, L700 is quite a bit softer clamp, and additionally it seems to swivel and articulate better. I hesitate to say perhaps it might be comparatively TOO soft, particularly where the arms of the L700 go around the driver unit. At least on my particular pair, if my headband does develop a failure, I would expect it to be there.

The 207's would take a decent headbanging session clamp-wise, while L700 shifts on my head if I tilt back to swallow my morning vitamins.


----------



## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> @JimL11 I cannot, for the life of me, find a "DN4250 N-channel MOSFET" transistor on mouser. Any ideas?



Whoops, that should be D2540


----------



## Muffinhead (Jan 9, 2018)

JimL11 said:


> Whoops, that should be D2540


Yeah I figured that one out. Again, does the drain current value matter? And I could only find SMD models for the MOSFETs, is it still possible to use these instead of through-hole ones?


----------



## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> Yeah I figured that one out. Again, does the drain current value matter? And I could only find SMD models for the MOSFETs, is it still possible to use these instead of through-hole ones?



It's not DN2450, it's DN2540. Here are the through hole parts:

TO220 version of 10M90S, Mouser part no: 747-IXCP10M90S

TO92 version of DN2540, Mouser part no: 689-DN2540N3-G

TO220 version of DN2540, Mouser part no: 689-DN2540N5-G

You can use either version of the DN2540. I just hard-wired everything together but it requires some soldering skill and a small soldering tip.


----------



## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> It's not DN2450, it's DN2540. Here are the through hole parts:
> 
> TO220 version of 10M90S, Mouser part no: 747-IXCP10M90S
> 
> ...


 One more thing: do I need more than one pot if I'm going the route of adjusting the impedance on the resistor instead of trial-and-erroring it?


----------



## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> One more thing: do I need more than one pot if I'm going the route of adjusting the impedance on the resistor instead of trial-and-erroring it?



No, the resistor is around 300 ohms, so a 100 ohm pot in series with 250 ohms (give or take) should do the trick - I specify 261 ohms in the article but really anything around 250 ohms should work.


----------



## yaluen (Jan 9, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> Is there a way to adjust the fit of the SR-x07 model Lambdas? I have a 407, and the clamp pressure is killing me. If I use my hands to pull the earcups apart just slightly it's fine, but otherwise it's so bad that it doesn't matter what they sound like.
> 
> I don't have any real hope that the old trick of leaving them gripped on the box overnight will work due to the plastic headband, and I don't want to risk doing anything that the next owner might not like because I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to sell them.
> 
> Are all the new Lambdas like this? My next choice is the L300, but if it's got the same clamp I'd rather not bother.


The arc should loosen up with enough time being stretched, just be careful its not stretched too far out as its liable to snap at various places. IIRC the arc on the SR-507/SR-L500/SR-L700 uses a more flexible plastic and should be more comfortable in terms of clamp.

The L300 would most likely be even worse for you since its cups aren't designed to swivel fully (same with the L500 and L700 I believe). Skip to the part in my notes where I mention the "restraining tabs" and have a look at the accompanying photos to see what I mean: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/stax-srs-3100.22188/reviews.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

@yaluen That is fantastic info, thanks for the help! I've read your review before, but I guess I didn't know what I was looking for at the time. 

My 407 has the exact same restraining tab design as photoed on your L300:


 

There's almost no rotation allowed at all.

It also looks like I may be able to remove the earcups and switch them to my Lambda Pro head band & arc. I'll try that later tonight, maybe I can give the 407 a fair audition after all.


----------



## yaluen (Jan 10, 2018)

Actually there is a difference in where the tabs are located on the new advanced lambdas which causes the following situation if your head's wide enough. I admit it's a bit hard to tell what I'm trying to show with my photos.



The tabs on the old lambdas shouldn't cause a fit problem.


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## DJ The Rocket (Jan 10, 2018)

Huh I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but I got the 407 onto the Lambda headband no problem. Its not 100% secure because the old tabs that slot in the sides are much thinner, but for my purposes it's fine. The other way around doesn't work of course, I couldn't fit the Lambda earcups on the 407 headband. Slightly disappointing, but my #1 goal was accomplished at least. 

Edit: I see what you mean now about the tabs. Odd that that's not the case at all with mine, the tabs were identical


----------



## DJ The Rocket

It looks like if I were to cut off the very bottom 1/4 inch of the headband, as marked in the pic, it would at least be able to swivel. I'm not sure how much this would help my specific problem though, and I'd better be damn certain that's what I want before I go dremmel crazy.


----------



## yaluen (Jan 10, 2018)

Ok, I see where the confusion is. The tabs I'm referring to are these ones:



On the new advanced lambdas they end up on the other side of the gimbals. I assume you're referring to side-to-side rotation whereas I'm referring to up-down rotation.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 10, 2018)

Yeah I realized that's what you meant, but they happen to work correctly on the old Lambda frame for me anyway. It's a Lambda Pro, if that makes a difference.

Then I was indeed talking about the other axis of rotation when I was talking about cutting that piece, which I meant to be a thought unrelated to the tabs you just pictured. I probably just didn't express that I was talking about two different things.

*Edit: *ok this is nuts. After taking them apart and putting them back together, suddenly they fit me perfectly now! And I have no idea what's different. I thought maybe the guy I got them from assembled them wrong, so I looked at the first pictures I took, and nope, it wasn't that. 

Getting a new product and immediately having trouble with it screams "user error," I know. But is it likely that I messed up wearing headphones, the same way, for four days in a row?

Welp, I don't understand it, but I guess this is just the kind of knowledge mankind isn't meant to have. I'm going to go enjoy listening to these now. Welcome to the world of Stax I guess


----------



## astrostar59

pham said:


> Stax SR-009 and its gang...



Don't recognise the amp, what it it?


----------



## JimL11 (Jan 11, 2018)

astrostar59 said:


> Don't recognise the amp, what it it?



I think that's his DT-HWT DIY amp, based on the old Mullard tube amplifier circuit except with feedback taken before the output transformer, and output taken from the output tube cathodes rather than the plates.


----------



## pham

Thanks @JimL11... but this is the new DT-Reference, single-ended circuit topology headphone amplifier to drive planar magnetic headphones including the SUSVARA as well as electrostatic ear-speakers like Stax SR-009 and of course other dynamic ones.

@astrostar59 It weighs more than 40kg and took a lot of time and effort to craft. This system can really express the liveliness, freshness and coherent of the sound that dwells in the point of contact between the musician and his/her instrument, keep things natural, simple and beautiful...


----------



## astrostar59

pham said:


> Thanks @JimL11... but this is the new DT-Reference, single-ended circuit topology headphone amplifier to drive planar magnetic headphones including the SUSVARA as well as electrostatic ear-speakers like Stax SR-009 and of course other dynamic ones.
> 
> @astrostar59 It weighs more than 40kg and took a lot of time and effort to craft. This system can really express the liveliness, freshness and coherent of the sound that dwells in the point of contact between the musician and his/her instrument, keep things natural, simple and beautiful...



Interesting amplifier there. So you sell it to a customer, or is it a one off for your collection?

On Head-case you put up a pic showing other amps, including what looked like Jon Mclean's Carbon. How would you describe the sound of your amp v the Carbon on the 009s?

Have you heard the BHSE? If yes, how does it compare to your amp.

What is the specs i.e. voltage swing, power amp mA rating?

I think the thing I am trying to understand is how you got the voltage swing high enough, as that is a challenge on tube electrostatic amps as I understand it. The BHSE has 3 stages of fets before the EL34 last stage (for example).


----------



## pham

I'm coming from a small group of passionate engineers honest making technology, focused on design and craft finest hand-built headamps; not marketing or not creating super company but really create products that really bring a lot of value to the customers. Since most of the time, they do own a various type of headphones besides Stax and wish to have a single amp to treat them well.

I find it’s hard to compare to other brands as we’re really focused on what we do and we’re looking at what the technologies potential is for headamp and really try to push that potential as far forward as possible. I think for us we do this because we love it and that’s what I want to keep doing and that’s why we don’t participate in too much marketing or trying to say we are more than we are. We’re very glad that people enjoy and they want to keep supporting us and allowing us to continue doing what we love doing.

We believe our gears are tools for enjoying music, not for demonstrations of performance at the test bench. They might not be for everyone. However, if you value your musical enjoyment over brand-name show-offs and bigger-the-better spec sheet, these amps will never fail your expectations.






This is an example of the level of detail that we care about when dealing with the great enemy of high fidelity reproduction, vibration... Look how DT-Reference provides a direct path to remove all these vibrations through its built-in Resonance Control feet; offering a more refined and musical sound accompanied by a much lower noise floor, giving greater delicacy and resolution, particularly in the bass extend. It also helps to prolong the decay of harmonics after the plucked note and delivered higher dynamics all around.


----------



## tigon_ridge (Jan 12, 2018)

delete. point missed apparently


----------



## paradoxper

And you're still missing the point.


----------



## Muffinhead

@JimL11 
OK, got the parts. I'm gonna start with the cap replacement. I don't know how to go about discharging the capacitors. I've set my multimeter to 500v dc, set the probes on the solder piles, and I get nothing - no voltage at all. I am almost certain there's still voltage in those things and I don't plan on dying, lol. What am I doing wrong?


----------



## tigon_ridge (Jan 12, 2018)

Muffinhead said:


> @JimL11
> OK, got the parts. I'm gonna start with the cap replacement. I don't know how to go about discharging the capacitors. I've set my multimeter to 500v dc, set the probes on the solder piles, and I get nothing - no voltage at all. I am almost certain there's still voltage in those things and I don't plan on dying, lol. What am I doing wrong?



No voltage means your cap isn't charged. If you're not sure that it is your meter that is broken, just touch both terminals of the cap with the ends of a resistor (500 ohms at least) and leave it touching for a few seconds. The higher the resistance of your resistor, the slower it drains the cap. Then, use a screwdriver to drain the remaining charge.

Edit: Honestly, though, it's not the best idea to tinker with these high voltage devices if you didn't already have the necessarily knowledge. But since you're already committed, I would recommend draining all the surrounding caps as well, just in case you might accidentally touch them and get a painful zap, or stop your heart from beating.


----------



## Muffinhead

tigon_ridge said:


> No voltage means your cap isn't charged. If you're not sure that it is your meter that is broken, just touch both terminals of the cap with the ends of a resistor (500 ohms at least) and leave it touching for a few seconds. The higher the resistance of your resistor, the slower it drains the cap. Then, use a screwdriver to drain the remaining charge.


I tested the multimeter with both the wall outlet and a 9v battery and both read fine. With this being done, you pretty sure it's that the cap is drained?


----------



## tigon_ridge

Muffinhead said:


> I tested the multimeter with both the wall outlet and a 9v battery and both read fine. With this being done, you pretty sure it's that the cap is drained?


Then it is most definitely drained. Me being extra cautious, I would drain it with a screwdriver or any metal thingy anyway.


----------



## Muffinhead

tigon_ridge said:


> Then it is most definitely drained. Me being extra cautious, I would drain it with a screwdriver or any metal thingy anyway.


Put a screwdrive on each solder point at once?


----------



## Jones Bob (Jan 12, 2018)

I use my tongue. 

> joking: DO NOT TRY AT HOME


----------



## tigon_ridge (Jan 12, 2018)

Muffinhead said:


> Put a screwdrive on each solder point at once?


 Uhh that question sounds like you're thinking you need two screwdrivers lol. No. Use one *resistor* and make contact with both terminals simultaneously. And then use ONE screwdriver to finish the job. If you don't use the resistor first, you risk damaging the cap. If you can't access the terminals directly (cap is situated very close to board), then yes, find the solder joints on the other side of the board.

So I'm guessing one reason why you didn't get a voltage before may be because your meter leads didn't touch the right solder joints, since it doesn't seem like you have direct access to the capacitor terminals, and you may be struggling to find the right solder points on the other side of the board. If that is the case, you should understand that it is seriously dangerous for you to continue on given your inexperience.


----------



## Muffinhead

tigon_ridge said:


> Uhh that question sounds like you're thinking you need two screwdrivers lol. No. Use one *resistor* and make contact with both terminals simultaneously. And then use ONE screwdriver to finish the job. If you don't use the resistor first, you risk damaging the cap. If you can't access the terminals directly (cap is situated very close to board), then yes, find the solder joints on the other side of the board.
> 
> So I'm guessing one reason why you didn't get a voltage before may be because your meter leads didn't touch the right solder joints, since it doesn't seem like you have direct access to the capacitor terminals, and you may be struggling to find the right solder points on the other side of the board. If that is the case, you should understand that it is seriously dangerous for you to continue on given your inexperience.


Nah just figured out the units weren't right for the multimeter/ Instead of measuring the hundreds of volts I should have been measuring in millivolts. Turns out some of the caps have a couple hundred mV's in them. Using a resistor took care of them quickly. Thanks for your help.


----------



## Muffinhead

tigon_ridge said:


> Uhh that question sounds like you're thinking you need two screwdrivers lol. No. Use one *resistor* and make contact with both terminals simultaneously. And then use ONE screwdriver to finish the job. If you don't use the resistor first, you risk damaging the cap. If you can't access the terminals directly (cap is situated very close to board), then yes, find the solder joints on the other side of the board.


Does this look safe to you? It 's the resistor attached to a wooden dowel with electrical tape.


----------



## tigon_ridge

Yes. Insulated pliers would also work, or just have any form of electrical insulation between your fingers and the resistor.


----------



## JimL11

I do not recommend using a screwdriver or pliers across a capacitor unless you want a nice divot where they connect. A 5000 ohm 10 watt resistor will gradually drain the charge from a PS cap without the sparks and drama. In any case, the T1 is mostly transistor, so if it's been off and unplugged from the power line overnight the PS should be pretty much drained.


----------



## tigon_ridge

I meant using the pliers to hold the resistor, but I agree. Resistor to discharge always. Screwdriver if you're bored and don't care about the cap, or to finish up the draining in the case you don't have a meter nearby to monitor the voltage, for extra safety. If you use a resistor with too high resistance, you could end up only partially draining...and then ZAP!


----------



## DJ The Rocket

Muffinhead said:


> Nah just figured out the units weren't right for the multimeter/ Instead of measuring the hundreds of volts I should have been measuring in millivolts



Yay, someone had a learning experience! Remember, an expert is just someone who knows all the possible ways to fail.



JimL11 said:


> A 5000 ohm 10 watt resistor will gradually drain the charge from a PS cap without the sparks and drama



Don't let that fuddy-duddy jim11 tell you the sparks and drama are a bad thing, everybody knows they're the best part about playing with caps!  Yes I'm the guy in science class who dropped the little potassium nugget into a water filled beaker

(Just kidding @JimL11, I actually do appreciate your posts  )


----------



## JimL11

To quote somebody or other: Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.


----------



## SeaWo|f

JimL11 said:


> Experience comes from bad judgment.



probably depends at bit on how bad the judgement was and how high the voltage was too.. lol


----------



## Muffinhead

Update: I got 4 of the smaller caps off the board no problem. I'm gonna need to wait for solder wick to come in to handle the rest. In the meanwhile, I dunno which way to put the caps in (they do have a polarity, right?)


----------



## kevin gilmore (Jan 12, 2018)

the electrolytics  absolutely do have polarity and you should have paid attention before you removed them.

best to get a solder sucker for the bigger caps


----------



## JimL11

Did you read my article? I specifically said "To avoid confusion, I removed and replaced the capacitors one at a time - be sure to install them in the same polarity,"  The board should indicate the polarity. If you're not sure, look at the next capacitor you remove and correlate the polarity with what the board shows.


----------



## JimL11 (Jan 12, 2018)

The electrolytic caps should have a stripe on one side with "-" signs which indicate the negative terminal.  On my board there is a white bar that sits on the circle where the capacitor is installed which corresponds to the location of the negative terminal. The reason for removing the capacitors one at a time is that they have different values, and different voltage ratings. You don't want to install a capacitor rated for 10 volts where a 50 volt cap is needed, otherwise arcy sparky. The board does NOT state what the voltage or microfarad capacitance rating is. On my board,

C9,C10 sit next to Z5 and Z6 - use 33uf/50V for these (replaces 10uf)

The other 4 small electrolytic caps are close to an integrated circuit.  They are:

C21,C22 - use 270uf/10V (replaces 220 uf/10V)
C23,C24 - 47uf/35V (same as original)

The four large PS caps C11-14 are replaced with 330uf/400V (original 100uf/400V)

If you're not sure what you're doing, get someone more experienced to help on site in person.


----------



## JimL11

BTW a desoldering iron is very helpful for removing parts


----------



## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> The electrolytic caps should have a stripe on one side with "-" signs which indicate the negative terminal.  On my board there is a white bar that sits on the circle where the capacitor is installed which corresponds to the location of the negative terminal. The reason for removing the capacitors one at a time is that they have different values, and different voltage ratings. You don't want to install a capacitor rated for 10 volts where a 50 volt cap is needed, otherwise arcy sparky. The board does NOT state what the voltage or microfarad capacitance rating is. On my board,
> 
> C9,C10 sit next to Z5 and Z6 - use 33uf/50V for these (replaces 10uf)
> 
> ...





JimL11 said:


> The electrolytic caps should have a stripe on one side with "-" signs which indicate the negative terminal.  On my board there is a white bar that sits on the circle where the capacitor is installed which corresponds to the location of the negative terminal. The reason for removing the capacitors one at a time is that they have different values, and different voltage ratings. You don't want to install a capacitor rated for 10 volts where a 50 volt cap is needed, otherwise arcy sparky. The board does NOT state what the voltage or microfarad capacitance rating is. On my board,
> 
> C9,C10 sit next to Z5 and Z6 - use 33uf/50V for these (replaces 10uf)
> 
> ...


i don't know that much about electronic DIY stuff, sorry. I've soldered a bit before and read up on some stuff. I thought, per your recommendation, that this would be a good foray into DIY electronic projects and would solve a problem with my amp. I see it as a learning expierience .All of the capacitors have been drained so they don't pose a risk of killing me - hooray. The worst that can happen is that I &%$# up the amp by soldering $%# in incorrectly - even so, who really cares? Life's too short for that stuff. I'd like to complete this project to the best of my ability and with the knowledge and expertise of those here. I greatly appreciate the help you've given me thus far and will try to figure out what I need to do from the article's instructions, clarifiying things as needed on this forum .I hope that isn't too much to ask.


----------



## JimL11 (Jan 12, 2018)

No need to apologize. None of us was born knowing anything. One more thing, after you've replaced all the electrolytic caps, before you do anything else, plug it in and make sure it's still working in stock form before modifying it.


----------



## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> One more thing, after you've replaced all the electrolytic caps, before you do anything else, plug it in and make sure it's still working in stock form before modifying it.


will do, definitely makes sense.


----------



## Muffinhead

Update: I soldered on 4 of the caps with a minor hitch: one of the solder pads lifted off (the right lead in the picture) I've read you want to wire it to the next point down the trace, but it goes to two solder points. Do I wire it to both?


----------



## Tinkerer

Looks like it's soldered. Just because it's lifted isn't the end of the world as long as it doesn't connect to another trace on the top of the board. I'd be more concerned that the joint itself looks wonky. Apply some heat and flux to that to make it good then test continuity with a multimeter to the other two end points.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

@Muffinhead Are you certain the trace is bad? From the pic it looks like it might be fine as-is. There may or may not be a drawback to going point to point here, I'd try to repair the trace first if that's possible or even necessary


----------



## Muffinhead

DJ The Rocket said:


> @Muffinhead Are you certain the trace is bad? From the pic it looks like it might be fine as-is. There may or may not be a drawback to going point to point here, I'd try to repair the trace first if that's possible or even necessary


AFAIK the trace isn't bad. Reading up on it I got the (incorrect?) impression that if a solder pad was lifted, soldering the joint wouldn't connect it electrically to the trace, forcing you to wire it to the next components down the line.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

I wouldn't say that's incorrect per se, but it's not that simple. It really all depends on what product you're working on and how you're going to use it. An amp is easy because it's going to sit there without moving, so there's no mechanical force to worry about. Any electrical connection strong enough to withstand dropping the amp in a box and hauling it around in a moving truck or whatever should be fine.

There are lots of good solutions here. Do you have any conductive superglue? Or IF your skills are up to it, a largeish wad of solder to hold everything in place could be secure enough, but there's not much space on the left there, just be careful not to make a bridge


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 13, 2018)

I've got a question: I'm using a 727A with an ODAC connected directly using the RCA input. When I try to plug in a new earspeaker, it causes some kind of feedback to the DAC, because the DAC will "reset" i.e. it behaves as it does when first plugged in to my phone (the usual UAPP notification pops up asking for permission to connect to the DAC). What could be going on here?

I suspect there's some ESD (or possibly charge from the driver?) running back to the ODAC through the ground wire, because 1) I haven't attached the ground screw on the back of the amp to anything, and 2) it seems to happen when I don't line up with the earspeaker jack perfectly and a pin in the plug touches the casing, so the ESD for some reason travels back to the DAC as if that's the ground. Is this plausible? If so, why would the DAC be the ground?

I tried testing this just now by plugging in precisely vs touching the case, but of course I couldn't get it to happen at all now that I'm trying. Is this circumstantial evidence for the ESD theory? I also turned the 727 off for the first time in weeks, and later this evening I'll ground the case properly


----------



## Muffinhead

DJ The Rocket said:


> I wouldn't say that's incorrect per se, but it's not that simple. It really all depends on what product you're working on and how you're going to use it. An amp is easy because it's going to sit there without moving, so there's no mechanical force to worry about. Any electrical connection strong enough to withstand dropping the amp in a box and hauling it around in a moving truck or whatever should be fine.
> 
> There are lots of good solutions here. Do you have any conductive superglue? Or IF your skills are up to it, a largeish wad of solder to hold everything in place could be secure enough, but there's not much space on the left there, just be careful not to make a bridge


Are you saying that besides physical issues, the solder joint is good? It is soldered well enough so that the cap won't fall out. I just want to know if the lead is connect to the board electrically.


----------



## JimL11 (Jan 13, 2018)

Easy way to check electrical continuity is to touch one lead of your meter to the soldered joint and the other to the next connection  - for example, to the solder point underneath the two crossed leads in your photo.

There are two issues here:
1) is there a good electrical connection
2) is the joint mechanically sound. For the latter, it would be nice to glue the lifted pad back down on the circuit board, if possible.


----------



## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> Easy way to check electrical continuity is to touch one lead of your meter to the soldered joint and the other to the next connection  - for example, to the solder point underneath the two crossed leads in your photo.
> 
> There are two issues here:
> 1) is there a good electrical connection
> 2) is the joint mechanically sound. For the latter, it would be nice to glue the lifted pad back down on the circuit board, if possible.


I dunno where the pad went. Am I screwed?


----------



## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> I dunno where the pad went. Am I screwed?


Um, OK. As long as the solder is well connected to the trace you should be OK.


----------



## jgazal (Jan 15, 2018)

SR-L300 Limited and SRM-353XBK












Is the SR-L300 sealed or ported? 

Edit: ported.


----------



## Muffinhead

This is a picture of the t0220 insulator and washer. The insulator (mica,I believe) looks different than the one shown in the pictures,so I'm wondering if it's OK and won't cause a problem with the heat sink.


----------



## JimL11 (Jan 16, 2018)

Muffinhead said:


> This is a picture of the t0220 insulator and washer. The insulator (mica,I believe) looks different than the one shown in the pictures,so I'm wondering if it's OK and won't cause a problem with the heat sink.



NO! The mica insulator is not a high voltage insulator. You MUST use HV insulators, either Thermalloy 4169G or 4170G, along with non-conductive thermal paste between all surfaces. You should also use Aavid 7721-7PPSG shoulder washers to be sure that the screw used to attach the transistor to the heatsink does not contact the heatsink. Remember you are dealing with upwards of 300 volts - electricity is not forgiving.


----------



## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> NO! The mica insulator is not a high voltage insulator. You MUST use HV insulators, either Thermalloy 4169G or 4170G, along with non-conductive thermal paste between all surfaces. You should also use Aavid 7721-7PPSG shoulder washers to be sure that the screw used to attach the transistor to the heatsink does not contact the heatsink. Remember you are dealing with upwards of 300 volts - electricity is not forgiving.


I also got silicone grease...is this ok to apply to the heat sink or should I get a different kind of thermal paste?


----------



## JimL11

You want to use something specifically sold as non-conductive thermal grease or paste.


----------



## ahmedie

jgazal said:


> SR-L300 Limited and SRM-353XBK
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OMG THIS SR-300 IS USING THE 009 DRIVER TECHNOLOGY !! I bet they sound similar to L700 which is hug discount !!


----------



## jgazal (Jan 16, 2018)

I believe it is the same stator. But I don’t know if the diaphragm is made of the same material, thickness or has the same tension applied to. Well, perhaps same gap and coating... Too many variables. Curious to see reviews.


----------



## rpeebles

jgazal said:


> SR-L300 Limited and SRM-353XBK
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting !....who is selling this and at what price ? Thanks


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Gotta pay attention to the Fujiya Avic festivals this year!


----------



## wuwhere

Very curious too on SR-L300 Limited compared to 009.


----------



## VandyMan

I notice that it has the exact same specifications as the regular L300 except it weighs a bit more.  The web page is very unclear in explaining what is different in the new Limited model. At least in English.


----------



## jgazal

rpeebles said:


> Interesting !....who is selling this and at what price ? Thanks



I don’t know. I got it from stax tweeter. You may want to check the SR-L300 thread also.


----------



## rpeebles

Dear Igazal...Thank You !


----------



## ahmedie (Jan 16, 2018)

you can pre-order it from the official store in japan T.T >>> https://stax.theshop.jp/　or other stores  >> http://kakaku.com/item/K0001025695/


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## rpeebles

Ahmedie...thanks very kind !!


----------



## Muffinhead

Update: I have all but two caps replaced. The last two say "BP" on them. Does this mean they have no polarity? Also,it appears the trace has lifted on the solder point I showed earlier. Testing for continuity came back negative. What should I do?


----------



## Tinkerer

Suck the solder off the bad joint. Use a razor blade to cut off the lifted part of the trace. Strip the lacquer off a bit of the good part of the trace down to the copper. Then bend the long lead of the new cap flat and parallel to the exposed copper and solder directly to it. You'll need to shorten the lead to the appropriate length before soldering.


----------



## Muffinhead

Tinkerer said:


> Suck the solder off the bad joint. Use a razor blade to cut off the lifted part of the trace. Strip the lacquer off a bit of the good part of the trace down to the copper. Then bend the long lead of the new cap flat and parallel to the exposed copper and solder directly to it. You'll need to shorten the lead to the appropriate length before soldering.


Thanks a lot! Would it be better to use some insulated wire I have on hand instead of the exposed lead of the capacitor to connect to the trace?


----------



## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> Thanks a lot! Would it be better to use some insulated wire I have on hand instead of the exposed lead of the capacitor to connect to the trace?



No, just use the lead. Why interpose another connection?


----------



## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> Update: I have all but two caps replaced. The last two say "BP" on them. Does this mean they have no polarity? Also,it appears the trace has lifted on the solder point I showed earlier. Testing for continuity came back negative. What should I do?



If you ordered the caps I specified, all the caps should be polarized, and polarized caps have the negative lead shorter than the positive lead.


----------



## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> If you ordered the caps I specified, all the caps should be polarized, and polarized caps have the negative lead shorter than the positive lead.


I didn't realize there even were BP caps, so I ordered based on their capacitance and voltage. 
Here's the page: https://www.mouser.com/productdetail/647-ues1h330mpm
These caps do have one lead shorter than the other. With them being non-polar, are they not suitable?


----------



## JimL11

You can use them. However it appears their specified life time is shorter than the caps I listed.


----------



## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> You can use them. However it appears their specified life time is shorter than the caps I listed.


Alrighty, thanks! I'm gonna finish the rest of the cap soldering tomorrow, fix the wonky joint, and then test it out before proceeding. Will let you guys know how that goes.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 17, 2018)

Are the L300/500/700 all the same size, physically? I got my L300 yesterday and I was surprised how small it is compared to every Lambda I've seen previously.

I don't like coming to any conclusions about new gear without having listened for at least a week, but my impression is that the L300 struggles to overcome its limitations due to that small size. Its low bass isn't effortless like in the bigger models. Subbass is still there but it sounds off somehow, like it loses texture and growl just by digging that deep. One of my first thoughts was that if the L500 is regularly sized, it'll be worth stepping up to that model for the larger dimensions alone.

I don't want to share any other L300 observations until I'm more confident in them, but I'll be comparing them to a 407 and a way old Professional Signature eventually


----------



## SeaWo|f

I thought people were pad rolling l500/l700 pads onto the l300. And the limited edition l300 has the stators from the l700. Also the pics I have seen of the three together make them look the same size.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 17, 2018)

Muffinhead said:


> I also got silicone grease...is this ok to apply to the heat sink or should I get a different kind of thermal paste?



I think it bears repeating to _*BE CAREFUL! *_There's nothing wrong with aborting a project or putting it aside when you discover you're in over your head.

What made you decide to tackle this project anyway? Is this your first time working with individual components in a circuit you don't understand? Even if this is a desperate Hail Mary project that's 

I would strongly suggest you put this project on hold temporarily while you start with something easier and more forgiving first. Build an Objective2 or something! Building the o2, and--just as important--following the testing procedure will give you the kind of experience you need in order to realize how far in over your head you are now.

It's not that I don't think you can successfully pull this off. In point of fact I'm afraid you will, which then might embolden you to take on projects even more over your head. And the last thing I want is to discourage you from asking questions, since you seem to (eventually, at least) listen to the advice given. But it's concerning that you keep suggesting new bad ideas after your first bad idea is shot down, even when someone competent has already explained the best solution.

These are potentially catastrophic mistakes you seem like you want to make! Who knows what other dangerous mistakes you're making that you didn't think to ask about?


----------



## Muffinhead

DJ The Rocket said:


> I think it bears repeating to _*BE CAREFUL! *_There's nothing wrong with aborting a project or putting it aside when you discover you're in over your head.
> 
> What made you decide to tackle this project anyway? Is this your first time working with individual components in a circuit you don't understand? Even if this is a desperate Hail Mary project that's
> 
> ...


I appreciate your concern. JimL11 suggested I take on this project after I asked about buying alternatives to the T1, so I bought the parts. It's all gone from there. I've spent enough money in parts to buy a cheap amp, and I don't want to buy another amp. I'm pretty set on following through with this.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

Muffinhead said:


> I'm pretty set on following through with this.



I didn't mean to suggest you shouldn't be. But maybe taking a step back and completing something easier first would be a smarter idea? The o2 won't take but an afternoon, for example, and it can't do anything but help with this project


----------



## Muffinhead

DJ The Rocket said:


> I didn't mean to suggest you shouldn't be. But maybe taking a step back and completing something easier first would be a smarter idea? The o2 won't take but an afternoon, for example, and it can't do anything but help with this project


Could you link me a cheap O2 kit with a chassis? Thanks


----------



## SeaWo|f

Literally googled "o2 amp kit" third option under shopping..

https://www.ebay.com/i/282756370081...3D711-117182-37290-0%26rvr_id%3D1418631428629


----------



## JimL11

I also suggest that you get someone local who is experienced in DIY and can look over your shoulder to catch mistakes before they happen.


----------



## Muffinhead (Jan 17, 2018)

Cap replacement was finished today without a hitch. Amp sounds OK from the first few minutes of listening. I think I'm gonna order the O2 and do some more research before I proceed with the actual mod. Are there any resources anyone would suggest for a beginner like myself?
Thanks again for the help and patience, guys.


----------



## astrostar59

Selling my Stax 007As 2015. Anyone interested PM me.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-007a-2015-as-new.870062/#post-13981948


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 18, 2018)

Triple Staxenrainbow


 _*L to R:* SR-Lambda Professional, SR-407, L300_​

The L300 is going to be for sale again soon. Not my cuppa, though I think they would shine on a tube amp, which I don't have. I've been thinking about a KGST more and more, but it isn't like I have any complaints about my feedback modded 727.

The Lambda Pro and 407 are keepers!


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 18, 2018)

Muffinhead said:


> Could you link me a cheap O2 kit with a chassis? Thanks



I hope this helps you as much as it helped me! You'll have a killer headphone amp for dynamic drivers at the end, and I bet you enjoy it too. 

JDS Labs sells kits with the PCBs and all components for $60, which is a good price. You can save $10 uploading the BOM to Mouser and ordering from them, which I recommend for reasons beyond the $10.

It seems like the kit would be easier, but I entered each part's location on the board in the "customer number" field, which Mouser prints on every component package. This organization made filling the board so much easier!

Anyway the PCB is $6 from JDS, components were $45 from Mouser. The standard aluminum enclosure was $15 (I got one from Granger, because they had the silver finish I wanted), but you can make your own enclosure out of anything, if you want to save that $15. I drilled out the faceplate myself, but JDS sells prefabricated faceplates if you prefer that route. JDS is a good resource for this in general, I got a set of plasic screws in case I decide to install the ODAC in the o2 enclosure.


----------



## hpeter

jgazal said:


> With due respect, I see the words “virtually” and the expression “however the amplifier definitely sees the power as real” as a similar way to state your explanation.
> 
> Dr. Gilmore saw a misconception that was not explained in your post, that the 580V is usually associated to the bias voltage and is not the theoretical maximum voltage the stators can be driven, that, AFAIK, is a little lower than the power supply voltages.
> 
> ...


 sr l 300
110pF
0,14mW@100V 20Hz
0,14W@100V 20kHz

ohms law+ reactance calculator


----------



## Muffinhead

DJ The Rocket said:


> I hope this helps you as much as it helped me! You'll have a killer headphone amp for dynamic drivers at the end, and I bet you enjoy it too.
> 
> JDS Labs sells kits with the PCBs and all components for $60, which is a good price. You can save $10 uploading the BOM to Mouser and ordering from them, which I recommend for reasons beyond the $10.
> 
> ...


Just ordered the kit with chassis from ebay, so that'll be here soonish. TBH, I'm pretty excited to build an entire amp from just parts. If I don't end up keeping it, is the resale value on the DIY O2 good?


----------



## JimL11

hpeter said:


> sr l 300
> 110pF
> 0,14mW@100V 20Hz
> 0,14W@100V 20kHz
> ...



Yes and no. That may be what Kevin Gilmore was referring to, but as I have said before, an ideal capacitor does not burn up energy, whereas a headphone does, in producing sound and heat. In an ideal capacitor, voltage and current are 90 degrees out of phase, so what energy gets dumped into the cap during one part of the cycle gets dumped back into the amp in the other part of the cycle, so theoretically, no energy is burned up.  However, an ideal capacitor also makes no sound.  The process of making sound uses up energy, so in fact a headphone has a resistive part of its impedance where current and voltage are in phase, and which is NOT stated in Stax's specified impedance.  Hard to know what that part of the impedance is.

The reason I say that that is what Gilmore was referring to is that although there is no energy loss, hence his use of the term "virtual" (I assume this is what he meant), the current demand on the amplifier is very real. So I think that is what he meant, hopefully he will clarify.


----------



## tigon_ridge (Jan 19, 2018)

You know, in physics class, they always assume that a charge (usually an electron) between two plates of a capacitor is always subject to a perfectly constant electric field. The students never question, "But newton's third law dictates that the charges on the plates are pushed by the single charge just as much as they're pushing the charge. That would push them out of the plates, and therefore lower the the E field, and therefore the voltage, right?" We assume that it's negligible because a single electron makes little difference. 

Well in our case, instead of a single nearly massless electron, there are bajillions of particles that constitute the diaphragm and air. Think of the e-stat driver unit as a capacitor with really high ESR (equivalent series resistance), because that's exactly what it is.

Now, the efficiency is a separate matter. Theoretically, the further the plates are placed from each other, the higher the voltage has to be to maintain the same E field. That's more of an amplifier problem than a driver problem. I don't think it's a matter of e-stat headphones being inherently inefficient as it is that it is just difficult of designing a high voltage amp.


----------



## Darbosa (Jan 21, 2018)

*Stax SR-L700: is it channel imbalance?*

Recently bought SR-L700.
First impressions are good: comparing side-by-side to SR-303 and  Stax SR-5N (Gold) on the same tracks and on the same amp (with SR-303 on SRM-310) I found the sound of L700 as softer in the mids, the whole picture is moved a little bit away and overall sound stage expanded. Voices (especially female ones) sound a little bit different, would say... refined, not so "in the face" as on SR-5N... and so also some instruments with emphasis in the mids - maybe because of L700's slight drop in 2,5 - 3 kHz region.
Would say also that L700 has slightly deeper going, more "juicy" bass - but only in the region lower than one from e.g. percussions - here I heard no difference with SR-303 and SR-5N.
The highs are more present and at the same time more "airy" than on both SR-303 and SR-5N.
Overall impression - not bad and improvement over SR-303 and SR-5N in all respect...

BUT. I have noticed at once that the main focus of the sound picture, in most cases it is the lead vocal is moved slightly to the left - about to the 11 o'clock position. When I put on SR-303 and SR-5N back again - the focus moved back on both to 12 o'clock. Litstening to both cups separately did not reveal loudness difference, but I guess it is not the right way to find the channel imbalance unless it is in the extreme extend.

Is it really ill-famed channel imbalance. And what are better ways to measure it (without professional gears)?
If I replace SRM-310 with any amp with has separate channel level adjustment on the fron panel (actually almost all Stax amps) - will it remedy the issue by just raising a little bit the volume of right channel.
Of course it will change the the track's original picture, but maybe it will bring the main voices and focus on the 12 o'clock spot back?


----------



## pegasus21

I have a SRM-353X 100V and I don't think it can be converted to a 230 or 240V based on the primary only having 2 wires. Is anybody able to confirm this?


----------



## kevin gilmore

sure looks like that is 100V only, Not sure whether there are pins under the plastic.

you might be able to find a friendly stax dealer that can order you a new universal transformer.


----------



## wink

... or, just get a stepdown transformer....
120v/100v or 230v/100v......


----------



## pegasus21

Thanks Kelvin and wink. I thought I'll be able to convert the voltage natively. I'll just use a step down since it'll be easier and likely cheaper in this case.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

Is there a thread dedicated to sharing converter box impressions? I'm interested in your impressions no matter what amp you were using, because I'm looking for something that might sound good on a transformer and also drive a pair of Maggie MMGs  

I'm still waiting to find a good price on a pro-bias SRD7, but in the meantime, there's an Adcom GFA-535 available for a good price in my town. Or should I hold off and look for B&K ST140? What about a Gainclone?


----------



## wink

Get a Stax 353X and slowly work your way up to a DIYT2.........


----------



## DJ The Rocket

@wink I already have a 727A and I performed the feedback mod myself, I'm interested in trying out the transformer route for different reasons


----------



## DJ The Rocket

I think pretty much everyone would agree Stax's top three earspeakers are:
1)SR-009
2)SR-007
3)SR-L700
*4) ?????*

Unless we count the mkI's and mkII's as two different headphones, is that about right? Then what model comes next? 

Best I can guess, 


Spoiler



spots 4-10 or 12 or whatever will be a lot of models really close together in quality, and it'll come down to personal preference at that point. I'd expect to see 507s, Lambda normals, Omegas, Lambda Pro Signatures? Maybe something interesting I've never heard of?

I do have a reason for thinking about this. I can't quite afford an 007, and I don't think the L700 is right for me, so is there really anything that would justify the cost of upgrading if I have a 407 and LPS now? I suspect that at this point I'll be happiest just buying some 507 leather pads if I must buy _something_, but to mostly keep saving for the 007


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## Ali-Pacha

Nope, some do prefer 007 
My favorite ones out of 009 (I'm a 009 guy) are Lambda Signature, no doubt. I do prefer them over L700.

Ali


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## leong526

sure 009.....


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## rpeebles

Ali-Pacha said:


> Nope, some do prefer 007
> My favorite ones out of 009 (I'm a 009 guy) are Lambda Signature, no doubt. I do prefer them over L700.
> 
> Ali


Hello...for a newby please: is there only one Lambda Signature and what year of manufacture. Why do you prefer it to the L700 . Thanks !


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## Pokemonn (Feb 17, 2018)

I found best?? 009 EQ setting. its based on Harman Target Curve(+5dB@20Hz, +-0dB@1Khz, -5dB@20Khz, line, its most prefferd line curve for many people)
if you want to know about Harman Target Curve, Googole "History of Harman Target Curve" you can get .pdf file and infos.
http://www.juloaudio.sk/Umiestnenie_reprosustav/History of Harman Target Curve.pdf
I use software EQer "Boom2" for iMac. but it doesnt DAP DSD CDP network player Vynil etc etc. so I asked Suzuki-san to make Stax ED-2(maybe high quality analog hardware EQer?).

Schiit Loki Mini EQer is very effective! (warning! ad! Lol)
http://www.schiit.com/products/loki


please create the numbers(dB) for your prefernce by your self.

our missoin to sound 009 right Ended. Literaly End Game! Pokemonn learned one thing.
I have already e-mailed Suzuki-san(chief engineer of Stax)to ask to make ED-"2"(succsesor of Stax ED-1) which compensate Stax to Harman curve. He thanked me. Lets wait and see...


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## hpeter

JimL11 said:


> Yes and no. That may be what Kevin Gilmore was referring to, but as I have said before, an ideal capacitor does not burn up energy, whereas a headphone does, in producing sound and heat. In an ideal capacitor, voltage and current are 90 degrees out of phase, so what energy gets dumped into the cap during one part of the cycle gets dumped back into the amp in the other part of the cycle, so theoretically, no energy is burned up.  However, an ideal capacitor also makes no sound.  The process of making sound uses up energy, so in fact a headphone has a resistive part of its impedance where current and voltage are in phase, and which is NOT stated in Stax's specified impedance.  Hard to know what that part of the impedance is.
> 
> The reason I say that that is what Gilmore was referring to is that although there is no energy loss, hence his use of the term "virtual" (I assume this is what he meant), the current demand on the amplifier is very real. So I think that is what he meant, hopefully he will clarify.


i disagree, stax is just a capacitor with capacitance (nothing special)- which has some reactance across freq spectrum.




for example transmitter glass capacitors, rated for *tenths-hundreds of Amps RF current going through them*..
with values just a few xx picofarads.. 







likewise the speakers, they are like small value coils (with air gap) . reactance can be seen in graph too.





  (reactance increases with rising freq)




*steep line >1khz is the reactance of the coil itself; that´s how it should look like*
the bass peak is just a mechanical-eletrical resonance -- (just a back emf) not related to coil reactance property.
"horizontal" line ; from bass to mids, is the resistance of coil wire. 

if speakers used superconductors coils; this skewed line would be still there...  
the bass peak would be much less (better damping factor from amp) and the bass to mid resistance horizontal line would be zero ohms


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## kevin gilmore

yes its a capacitor. but not a perfect capacitor. Most of the energy goes into the dielectric. In this case Air.
And the dielectric can change due to temperature and humidity.


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## JimL11

Not sure we disagree. Yes, a stat headphone looks like a capacitor, but a lossy one - some energy goes to heat in the dielectric, some energy goes to sound, which is the goal of the exercise.


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## tigon_ridge

hpeter said:


> i disagree, stax is just a capacitor with capacitance (nothing special)- which has some reactance across freq spectrum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What exactly are you disagreeing about? It was never stated that these aren't actual capacitors. They just happen to be capacitors with very unusually high ESR, that is, much of the energy is transferred into sound. The dielectric is actually a very bad one (can't get much worse than air), but the high ESR is mainly due to the air resisting the diaphragm, and thus the current. The diaphragm is also subject to mechanical damping, which is also factored into the ESR. Functionally, it's capacitor, but to say that it's "nothing special" is silly. No capacitor behaves like an electrostatic driver does, nor has its high AC ESR property.


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## Ali-Pacha

rpeebles said:


> Hello...for a newby please: is there only one Lambda Signature and what year of manufacture. Why do you prefer it to the L700 . Thanks !


The original ones, 1987, 1 µm diaphragm.
More air and clarity than L700, even if less details. More extension down low with more dry kick, where L700 and their leaky design are mellow low mid-ish (100 hz bump).
L700 have better soundstage (more precise, less diffuse) and more "modern" highs so to say, but there is a kind of euphonic je ne sais quoi (some say vintage sound) terribly pleasing with Lambda Signature.

Ali


----------



## DJ The Rocket

Found a couple of older posts from random stax threads that were worth bringing up again, but since I don't remember where they came from, I'm posting here



twinge said:


> Good day everyone! I'm planing to swap L700 drivers into my old Sigmas. I love the sound-stage of Sigmas. But I don't know will drivers from L700 fit to them or not.
> 
> Anyone have such experience?



This is a fascinating idea, did anything ever come of it? If this works, if it combines the best qualities of both headphones (which seems reasonable enough), it could change everything about my future upgrade plans!




makne said:


> e-stats don't have the deepest bass but it's certainly sufficient



This must have been from one of the L300 or L500 threads  I found this quote from the earbuds round-up thread to be apropos:



-rowan- said:


> I suppose don't need them to do *everything* an e-stat does. Not all e-stats do, even



So to @makne I would say that not all e/stats do what e/stats can do 

The Lambda Pro Signature reproduces the deepest bass I've ever heard from a headphone, by a large margin too. It's deeper and tighter than all but the best subwoofers I've heard. But I've also heard the newer Lambdas with a much different sound signature, and for those I would say your description is spot on.


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## rpeebles

Ali-Pacha said:


> The original ones, 1987, 1 µm diaphragm.
> More air and clarity than L700, even if less details. More extension down low with more dry kick, where L700 and their leaky design are mellow low mid-ish (100 hz bump).
> L700 have better soundstage (more precise, less diffuse) and more "modern" highs so to say, but there is a kind of euphonic je ne sais quoi (some say vintage sound) terribly pleasing with Lambda Signature.
> 
> Ali


Ali, thank you that is very interesting & informative !!


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## makne

DJ The Rocket said:


> Found a couple of older posts from random stax threads that were worth bringing up again, but since I don't remember where they came from, I'm posting here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ah yes, I should’ve made it clear that my experience is limited to the new L-series, and the SR-009  From my experience they can produce some decent bass pressure and depth, and of course they’re fast as ***, but lacking the depth of some planars for example. I’d like to hear some of the older models one day!


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## jgazal (Jan 23, 2018)

I was wondering why Stax chooses not to insulate stators.

Does the stator insulation thickness alter the efficiency of electrostatic drivers?


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## Whitigir

Wow, been a while, and th ethereal has became a bit more crazy ?


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## wink

... or, the more crazy has become the more normal........


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## chinsettawong

jgazal said:


> I was wondering why Stax chooses not to insulate stators.
> 
> Does the stator insulation thickness alter the efficiency of electrostatic drivers?



The insulation should not affect the efficiency of the drivers.


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## DJ The Rocket (Jan 24, 2018)

chinsettawong said:


> The insulation should not affect the efficiency of the drivers.



So efficiency is proportional to the strength of the electromagnetic force on the membrane, then?

I've been looking for a simple answer to that question for the last few hours (working on an unrelated problem from a different angle) and then you post this. Awesome!

I don't understand why can't phrase a search to find this on my own, I'm just getting a terrible SNR in these topics. I thought_ "what factors influence speaker efficiency"_ would do but no...I was expecting answers about different voice coilings on dynamics or something, because I had read about Audeze doubling the LCD3 impedance by using half as much spray on the membranes. This answer makes more sense though, I think I can infer from here


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## chinsettawong (Jan 24, 2018)

It's the air gap between the stators and the diaphragm that affects the efficiency.  The smaller the air gap, the better the efficiency.


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## Jones Bob

DJ The Rocket said:


> So efficiency is proportional to the strength of the electromagnetic force on the membrane, then?
> 
> I've been looking for a simple answer to that question for the last few hours (working on an unrelated problem from a different angle) and then you post this. Awesome!
> 
> I don't understand why can't phrase a search to find this on my own, I'm just getting a terrible SNR in these topics. I thought_ "what factors influence speaker efficiency"_ would do but no...I was expecting answers about different voice coilings on dynamics or something, because I had read about Audeze doubling the LCD3 impedance by using half as much spray on the membranes. This answer makes more sense though, I think I can infer from here



STAX uses electrostatic not electromagnetic force to drive its earspeakers. 

Here is a good technical link to Wide Range Electrostatic Loudspeaker Design by Peter Walker, father of Quad: 
http://www.audiocircuit.com/A-PDF/A...-electrostatic-loudspeakers-A-EN2-941-QUA.pdf


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## DJ The Rocket (Jan 24, 2018)

chinsettawong said:


> It's the air gap between the stators and the diaphragm that affects the efficiency.  The smaller the air gap, the better the efficiency.



Which is to say that the smaller the gap, the greater the force, due to the inverse square law?



Jones Bob said:


> STAX uses electrostatic not electromagnetic force to drive its earspeakers.
> 
> Here is a good technical link to Wide Range Electrostatic Loudspeaker Design by Peter Walker, father of Quad:
> http://www.audiocircuit.com/A-PDF/A...-electrostatic-loudspeakers-A-EN2-941-QUA.pdf



Right, you are correct and thanks, it was late


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## JimL11

DJ The Rocket said:


> Which is to say that the smaller the gap, the greater the force, due to the inverse square law?



The inverse square law applies to a charge sitting in space.  For electrostatics, the physics is that of parallel plates, which states that the electric field between two parallel plates is proportional to the charge on the plates divided by the distance.  For fixed stators that field is uniform, which is nice because in theory there is no distortion, and increases as the inverse of the distance between the stators, not the inverse squared. So the closer together the stators, the greater the force on the charged membrane between them. But the closer the stators, the less the membrane can move before it hits them, so there is a trade-off between efficiency and ultimate output.


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## DJ The Rocket

I'm working through one of your posts on head-case I just found. I was thinking that the headphone's capacitance was somehow integral to its function as a trandsucer, but it looks like the capacitance is more akin to a side effect?


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## hpeter (Jan 24, 2018)

JimL11 said:


> Not sure we disagree. Yes, a stat headphone looks like a capacitor, but a lossy one - some energy goes to heat in the dielectric, some energy goes to sound, which is the goal of the exercise.


people, i disagree with opinion about lossy dielectric the air between stators.
air has almost vacuum like permitivity, no big losses here.
even the distances are big for air capacitor.

lossy dielectric materials do exists, like foils used in defib capacitors; _but they have huge permitivity compared to other foil caps.
_
secondly; i doubt it , the losses are also made because of corona effects; voltages here are not high enough.
corona losses would be same across freq range

therefore, if it´s been said that stax is current hungry in treble, i agree with that claim-because of reactance; not because of dilectric losses
i know, it´s a bit nitpicking 
peace


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## JimL11

DJ The Rocket said:


> I'm working through one of your posts on head-case I just found. I was thinking that the headphone's capacitance was somehow integral to its function as a trandsucer, but it looks like the capacitance is more akin to a side effect?



Well, yes and no. The stators form a capacitor - two fixed plates in space, and the musical signal is imposed across them to cause the membrane to vibrate, so in that sense the capacitance is integral to it. But in terms of drive requirements, see below.



hpeter said:


> people, i disagree with opinion about lossy dielectric the air between stators.
> air has almost vacuum like permitivity, no big losses here.
> even the distances are big for air capacitor.
> 
> ...



Well, lossy in the sense that real power is being burned up, which has to be true by the physical law of conservation of energy.  In order to produce sound, which is a form of energy, real energy has to be produced by the amplifier. Since an ideal capacitor does not use energy, this means that the headphone has to have a resistive component which does burn energy - so one can model a real headphone as a resistor and capacitor in parallel. Both of them can require current to drive, but only one part of it actually burns up energy. Remember, of the three ideal components, resistor, capacitor and inductor, only a resistor actually burns up energy because it is the only component where current and voltage are in phase. 

Stax gives the capacitative part of the model but not the resistive part. However, the resistive part MUST exist because you can hear sound. The "loss" part is due to the fact that sound is being produced. And because efficiency is never 100%, there also must be a component of heat loss to balance out the energy supplied by the amp.

Now if we look at the energy in music, it is predominantly in the mid-bass to low mid-range. In fact, some studies report that 1/2 of the energy in music lies below about 300-500 Hz.  Thus, electrostatic headphones have significant current demands in the bass and lower midrange due to the energy in music to produce sound. This is real energy which is burned up. On the other hand, in the treble, there is not much musical energy (which is why tweeters can be rated at only tolerating a couple watts without burning up), but because of the capacitative part of the headphone, also demands current. Hope that is clear.


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## tigon_ridge

hpeter said:


> people, i disagree with opinion about lossy dielectric the air between stators.
> air has almost vacuum like permitivity, no big losses here.
> even the distances are big for air capacitor.
> 
> ...



You are conflating the behavior of air within a normal capacitor and e-stat driver. Air in the former loses energy only due to dielectric relaxation phenomenon. In the latter, air also absorbs mechanical energy from the diaphragm. ESR is actually _inversely_ proportional to relative permittivity. Capacitive reactance has nothing to do with how power is dissipated in a capacitor. Power dissipation is strictly related to ESR.


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## hpeter

i understand what you say, to confirm/reject your theory it needs just a constant AC Vrms signal supply going to Stax and precision AC µ Ampmeters .
then just sweep whole hifi spectrum, and measure currents going to stators.

i think the  amp will feel no difference (same currents),  if a 110pF capacitor OR stax (even with removed/disconnected diaphragms) was connected to outputs


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## JimL11

hpeter said:


> i understand what you say, to confirm/reject your theory it needs just a constant AC Vrms signal supply going to Stax and precision AC µ Ampmeters .
> then just sweep whole hifi spectrum, and measure currents going to stators.
> 
> i think the  amp will feel no difference (same currents),  if a 110pF capacitor OR stax (even with removed/disconnected diaphragms) was connected to outputs



So, what we need is to measure both voltage and current simultaneously as we sweep, while looking at the phase between them. One could put a small resistor in series with the headphone and measure the voltage across that to look at the current, then measure the differential voltage across the headphones. If you put this on an oscilloscope, say voltage on the X scale and current on the Y scale, you can even look at the phase between the two.

Yes, if there is no diaphragm, then the cable and stators just look like a capacitor of 100 pf so it should be the same.


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## ahmedie (Jan 25, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> twinge said: ↑
> Good day everyone! I'm planing to swap L700 drivers into my old Sigmas. I love the sound-stage of Sigmas. But I don't know will drivers from L700 fit to them or not.
> 
> Anyone have such experience?
> ...



if you remove the grill of the L700 (the grill help greatly to create the illusion of forward sound) the sound-stage will be less forward and more to the sides of your head ... much more like traditional headphones with little increased details/depth too. But I prefer the sound with grill on bcz voices are projected forward and better bass (maybe)


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## Muffinhead (Jan 25, 2018)

Hello again all,
I completed the O2 project. It was fairly straightforward except for the op amps being soldered in with the wrong polarity - big pain in the @$$ to unsolder and replace.
I'd like to continue the T1 project. I've removed the plate resistors, interposed the safety resistors between the tube plates and output terminals, so the next step is assembling the CCS and MOSFET. I'm having difficulty interpreting the circuit diagram, particularly the orientation of the MOSFET and the 10m90s in regards to their terminals.I know the 10m90s is mounted on the heatsink and the MOSFET is on the breadboard, but how do I know, physically, which leads are the positive, negative, gate for the current source or source gate and drain for the MOSFET? I've attached the schematic for reference. Thanks.


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## jgazal (Jan 25, 2018)

I recall @kevin gilmore saying that diaphragm charges slowly and there is also space charge. So if I understood right, applying positive dc voltage to the diaphragm sucks some electrons from the coating and surrounding air, but the voltage is not high enough to ionize air and cause a corona discharge.

@kevin gilmore also says that: “Most of the energy goes into the dielectric. In this case Air. And the dielectric can change due to temperature and humidity.” If I understood correctly, with high temperature, high humidity and moisture air stop being a perfect dielectric and becomes a very poor “conductor” and the diaphragm looses some charge.

It makes sense, since @chinsettawong said inner dust films are necessary to keep diaphragms positively charged (and also the above mentioned space charge). I guess I can hear a sort of reduced sensitivity when is summer and my ears are sweating, because such reduction usually is not equal in both drivers.

It seems that high temperature, high humidity and moisture allow to constantly and slowly feed the diaphragm with electrons, right?

Conversely, diaphragm touching stators feeds electrons faster to the diaphragm. But current is limited by the coating high resistance and ballast resistor. The diaphragm may even become neutral, but the power supply pro bias keep sucking electrons to make the diaphragm positive again, right? 

So the former is a steady charge reduction, while the former is a punctual and rapidly reversible occurrence.

So one would say the diaphragm is kept more or less at “constant charge”, right?

Perhaps with high temperature, high humidity and moisture not allowing as high positive charge in the diaphragm as it would have in cold, dry and clean environments.

So the stator, on the other hand, is driven fed with alternating current.

@chinsettawong says that insulating the stators does not alter sensitivity, in other words, that sensitivity is primarily defined by stator diaphragm gap. So if I understand correctly, the charges that rapidly build up in the uninsulated stators and that might migrate to air (or even reduce diaphragm charge) if we have high temperatures, high humidity and moisture, are negligible. Certainly much lower than the energy that is converted into sound and much much lower than the energy lost in heat. Since the amplifier has juice enough for stators it also does not affect the requirement of current for a given nominal SPL.

But @chinsettawong also says that insulating the stators helps to avoid diaphragm squealing when the driver has dust inside.

So it seems to me, from all the descriptions above, that insulating stators is theoretically the best thing to do.

But Stax, as fair I know, does not insulate stators.

So there must be a good reason to use clean rooms and uninsulated stators that I am still failing to figure out.


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## soren_brix (Jan 25, 2018)

Muffinhead said:


> ... except for the op amps being soldered in with the wrong polarity


Tinkering with High Voltage, wrong polarity might be an even bigger pain ...



Muffinhead said:


> I'm having difficulty interpreting the circuit diagram, particularly the orientation of the MOSFET and the 10m90s in regards to their terminals.


The drain of the 10m90 goes to B+ the other end of the circuit goes to the plate.



Muffinhead said:


> I know the 10m90s is mounted on the heatsink and the MOSFET


And make sure the size of sink is adequate ~ 8-12W of heat from two 10m90's, and remember to use proper high voltage insulation.



Muffinhead said:


> is on the breadboard, but how do I know, physically, which leads are the positive, negative, gate for the current source or source gate and drain for the MOSFET? I've attached the schematic for reference. Thanks.


 ...probably a good idea to buy the JimL's article from AudioXpress on howto.


----------



## Muffinhead

@soren_brix I actually have already purchased the article, just needed to ask questions about what I was reading. I have one more question, regarding the use of a trimmer pot: Do I want to use its center lead? Thanks for your help.


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## chinsettawong

@jgazal, I do know that some of the drivers inside Stax headphones have insulated stators.  For example, the stators of SR507 are insulated.  They are painted in black.  I'm very sure that all of the SR x07 series stators are painted in the same way.

As a DIYer without a clean room, I prefer insulated stators anytime.


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## jgazal (Jan 25, 2018)

@chinsettawong. I see. Perhaps there may be clear insulation Stax may use in the other drivers also. I just don’t know. Very interesting.


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## chinsettawong

@jgazal, Stax SR007's stators are indeed not insulated.  I'm sure SR009's stators are not insulated also.


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## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> Hello again all,
> I completed the O2 project. It was fairly straightforward except for the op amps being soldered in with the wrong polarity - big pain in the @$$ to unsolder and replace.
> I'd like to continue the T1 project. I've removed the plate resistors, interposed the safety resistors between the tube plates and output terminals, so the next step is assembling the CCS and MOSFET. I'm having difficulty interpreting the circuit diagram, particularly the orientation of the MOSFET and the 10m90s in regards to their terminals.I know the 10m90s is mounted on the heatsink and the MOSFET is on the breadboard, but how do I know, physically, which leads are the positive, negative, gate for the current source or source gate and drain for the MOSFET? I've attached the schematic for reference. Thanks.



So, Do you have a circuit board for this - if so, the circuit board should show you.  If not, you can look at the data sheets for the 10M90S and DN2540, available on the web. The first page of the data sheet shows which pin is which.  If you are hard-wiring, start with soldering the 100 ohm and 1 kilohm resistors to the gate pins, as close to the device as you can while leaving some space between the pins. You will need a small soldering tip, and touch it to the 

If you are using TO220 versions of both, then if you put the device with the metal tab lying on the table and the pins pointing down, the left lead is the gate, the middle lead goes to positive (drain) and the right lead goes to negative (source).  So, the middle lead of the 10M90S is always connected to B+. The left lead of the 10M90S is connected to the right lead of the DN2540, the resistor connected to the right lead of the 10M90S is connected to the left lead of the DN2540, and the adjustment resistor and pot is connected to the right lead of DN2540 at one end, and the resistor from the left lead of the DN2540 at the far end.

If you are using the TO92 version of the DN2540, if you put the device on the table with the flat side facing up and the pins pointing down, the left lead is source, the middle lead is gate and the right lead is drain. So, the right lead of the DN2540 connects to the right lead of the 10M90S, the resistor from the gate of the 10M90S connects to the left pin of the DN2540, and the adjustment resistor and pot are connected to one end of the left DN2540 lead and the resistor from the middle DN2540 lead at the far end.  Hope this is clear. 

For the heatsink, I used a 150mm x 60mm x 25mm heatsink off of eBay, which I sawed off to about 4 3/4" to fit. It should work fine in silver, but I recently painted it black, which should help heat dissipation a bit.  There are actually four CCS, one replacing two resistors, and each CCS dissipates close to 1.6 watts.

For the adjustment resistor and pot, you want to connect the middle lead to one of the outer leads, and the resistor to the other outer lead.  I would start by adjusting the resistance to maximum and then turn the resistance down until you reach the desired current. You can check that the mini-circuit is working correctly by turning up the voltage - once you reach the set current, increasing the voltage should result in no change in the current. 

Although you can check the current at relatively low voltage (i.e. 10-15 volts), you need to mount the CCS to the heatsink before installing in the amp. If you try the CCS in the amp without the heatsinks you will fry them.

Good luck.


----------



## JimL11

@jgazal, I doubt that @kevin gilmore said that there was a space charge inside an electrostatic headphone. Air is an insulator, and doesn't generally have any free electrons to speak of, unless there is a very high electrical field - ionization of air can occur if the electric field is greater than about 3 kV/mm. Reportedly the air gap in a Stat headphone is about 0.5mm.  With a diaphragm voltage of 580 volts, assuming that is the distance from stator to diaphragm, that is less than 1.2 kV/mm - even if that this the gap between stators,that is an electric field of about 2.3 kV/mm, which is significantly less than needed to ionize air.

I would guess that the reason to use clean rooms and dust shields is to prevent dust inside the drivers. Anyone who has seen the naked insides of an old Quad electrostatic speaker will note that its dust covers are coated with a thin film of dust. The electric charge on the diaphragm tends to attract dust - that is the idea behind the electric air cleaners (which, be it noted, are not very efficient, but over time do accumulate dust particles).


----------



## Jones Bob

chinsettawong said:


> @jgazal, Stax SR007's stators are indeed not insulated.  I'm sure SR009's stators are not insulated also.



The SR-009 stators being made of aluminum could be clear anodized, which adds a very strong insulator to the surface. Just speculating.


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## Jones Bob (Jan 25, 2018)

JimL11 said:


> /snip/
> The electric charge on the diaphragm tends to attract dust - that is the idea behind the electric air cleaners (which, be it noted, are not very efficient, but over time do accumulate dust particles).



A good arguement for using a negative bias voltage perhaps?


----------



## jgazal

JimL11 said:


> @jgazal, I doubt that @kevin gilmore said that there was a space charge inside an electrostatic headphone. Air is an insulator, and doesn't generally have any free electrons to speak of, unless there is a very high electrical field - ionization of air can occur if the electric field is greater than about 3 kV/mm. (...).



I am sorry, you are right. I think he was referring to space charge within the plane in which the thin coating is laid down:



kevin gilmore said:


> (...)
> 
> There is a bias pin that puts a space charge on the diaphram. Its
> typically580 volts or so and current levels so low that you cannot
> ...



So I presume temperature, humidity and moisture are not enough to charge air surrounding that coating plane.


----------



## soren_brix

Muffinhead said:


> @soren_brix I actually have already purchased the article, just needed to ask questions about what I was reading. I have one more question, regarding the use of a trimmer pot: Do I want to use its center lead? Thanks for your help.


You might have spend a lot of money on parts and really, really wants to go through with this - however, you questions so far all points in the same direction: don't!


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## Muffinhead

soren_brix said:


> You might have spend a lot of money on parts and really, really wants to go through with this - however, you questions so far all points in the same direction: don't!


I appreciate your concern. I'm a stubborn person, however, and will complete or attempt to complete this project by any means necessary. I'm no expert, as has bern stated many times, and would like to ask questions here, as dumb as they seem. I need not be lectured about my acknowledged lack of knowledge.


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## JimL11

jgazal said:


> I am sorry, you are right. I think he was referring to space charge within the plane in which the thin coating is laid down:
> 
> 
> 
> So I presume temperature, humidity and moisture are not enough to charge air surrounding that coating plane.



More humidity in the air can lower the ionization point, but Stax designs the phones so as not to have ionization regardless of atmospheric factors. The problem with ionization is that it produces sparks, which is not good for the health of the diaphragm.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

ahmedie said:


> if you remove the grill of the L700 (the grill help greatly to create the illusion of forward sound) the sound-stage will be less forward and more to the sides of your head ... much more like traditional headphones with little increased details/depth too. But I prefer the sound with grill on bcz voices are projected forward and better bass (maybe)



I'm not sure what you mean by "grill." I'm looking at an L300 though, is this something unique to the higher models? Or do you mean that vertical strip of leather covering a fraction of the drivers?



Muffinhead said:


> I completed the O2 project.



That's awesome! Do you feel that the experience taught you useful lessons to apply to your bigger project? That was the reason I brought it up, after all, and if it wasn't good advice I'd like to understand where I went wrong  

I know I personally had a list of new conceptual insights and improved practical techniques after my first PCB build.


----------



## Muffinhead

DJ The Rocket said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "grill." I'm looking at an L300 though, is this something unique to the higher models? Or do you mean that vertical strip of leather covering a fraction of the drivers?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, it was great advice to get the O2. The most important thing I learned was to look closely at which components have a polarity which needs to be paid attention to. It also taught me how to read resistor impedance values and better soldering skills in general. Much appreciated.


----------



## ahmedie

DJ The Rocket said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "grill." I'm looking at an L300 though, is this something unique to the higher models? Or do you mean that vertical strip of leather covering a fraction of the drivers?


this is the grill picture im talking about, https://stax.theshop.jp/items/7561129,(i like the sound with grills though for forward image) Btw i have both l300 and l700. You can also swap left cover and attache to the right driver and vice versa which change the presentation for less width / more depth (I like this mod on l300 but not l700). I can post pictures of my moded L300 (damp back of driver with transparent foam similar to the one on older lamda ) or L700.


----------



## Muffinhead

OK, here's the MOSFET circuit I completed today. I would like to use two 9v in series to adjust the current-is this OK, or is the current from this source not sufficient for testing? I am aware of the long exposed leads and will cut or insulate them before installation in the chassis.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Jan 25, 2018)

JimL11 said:


> Well, yes and no. The stators form a capacitor - two fixed plates in space, and the musical signal is imposed across them to cause the membrane to vibrate, so in that sense the capacitance is integral to it. But in terms of drive requirements, see below



Thanks for your (and everyone's) help! I wouldn't say I completely understand it yet, but getting there is going to take more effort than asking a question on a forum. I do understand it better than I did before, my mental picture has more detail and fewer fuzzy parts.

 Boldly we barrel toward the next misunderstanding, right? 



ahmedie said:


> this is the grill picture im talking about, https://stax.theshop.jp/items/7561129,



Ah, somehow the "_,(I"_ got stuck to the end of your URL but I got it off, yeah that's the part I thought. Google translates it as "Net Holder." I hadn't thought to try reversing my Net Holders, interesting idea



soren_brix said:


> You might have spend a lot of money on parts and really, really wants to go through with this - however, you questions so far all points in the same direction: don't!



I can't speak for everyone, but I gave up trying to warn him off long ago. Way I see it, all that's left is what in other contexts is called "harm reduction"


----------



## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> OK, here's the MOSFET circuit I completed today. I would like to use two 9v in series to adjust the current-is this OK, or is the current from this source not sufficient for testing? I am aware of the long exposed leads and will cut or insulate them before installation in the chassis.



That looks correct.  Two 9V batteries in series should supply enough voltage and current to adjust the current sources, and you can connect a third 9 volt battery in series to confirm that the current does not change as you increase the voltage. I would put a 100 ohm 1% resistor in series with the batteries and measure the voltage across that to measure the current - you should get around 0.49 volts = 4.9 mA across that resistor when the current source is set correctly.  Then if you like, you can measure the resistance of the resistor plus pot and substitute the closest 1% resistor to set the current permanently.


----------



## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> That looks correct.  Two 9V batteries in series should supply enough voltage and current to adjust the current sources, and you can connect a third 9 volt battery in series to confirm that the current does not change as you increase the voltage. I would put a 100 ohm 1% resistor in series with the batteries and measure the voltage across that to measure the current - you should get around 0.49 volts = 4.9 mA across that resistor when the current source is set correctly.  Then if you like, you can measure the resistance of the resistor plus pot and substitute the closest 1% resistor to set the current permanently.


Thank you very much. Your article stated that you could use a 261 ohm resistor + 100 ohm trimmer pot instead of using a different resistor for each CCS; this is the option I took. So,does that mean that each CCS uses the pot + resistor combo? And one more pretty stupid question: I can't, for the life of me figure out how I'm going to attach the DN2450 assembly to the perfboard, and the perfboard to the heatsink. From what I've read, the 10m90s bears the brunt of the voltage coming from the B+ rail, so that means that the DN2450 doesn't generate a lot of heat. right? In that case, is thermal conductivity of the mounting surface a big issue? Again, much appreciation for your guidance.


----------



## Muffinhead

Muffinhead said:


> Thank you very much. Your article stated that you could use a 261 ohm resistor + 100 ohm trimmer pot instead of using a different resistor for each CCS; this is the option I took. So,does that mean that each CCS uses the pot + resistor combo? And one more pretty stupid question: I can't, for the life of me figure out how (or where) I'm going to attach the DN2450 assembly to the perfboard, and the perfboard to the heatsink. From what I've read, the 10m90s bears the brunt of the voltage coming from the B+ rail, so that means that the DN2450 doesn't generate a lot of heat. right? In that case, is thermal conductivity of the mounting surface a big issue? Again, much appreciation for your guidance.


----------



## soren_brix

10m90 goes to a proper heatsink, use nylon screws (not metal) and the Aavid 4170G alu oxi pad for mounting and thermal paste (regular white stuff and not anything else).
dn2540 doesn't need any additional heatsinking.
mount the 10m90 + resistors + DN2540 on a small piece of vero board (resistors on top with dn2540, and 10m90 underneath, mounted directly onto the sink, with its legs bend upwards to reach the vero board.
Vero board mounts onto the sink using standoffs. short wires from vero board to plate. wires needs to be rated for 400V.


----------



## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> Thank you very much. Your article stated that you could use a 261 ohm resistor + 100 ohm trimmer pot instead of using a different resistor for each CCS; this is the option I took. So,does that mean that each CCS uses the pot + resistor combo? And one more pretty stupid question: I can't, for the life of me figure out how I'm going to attach the DN2450 assembly to the perfboard, and the perfboard to the heatsink. From what I've read, the 10m90s bears the brunt of the voltage coming from the B+ rail, so that means that the DN2450 doesn't generate a lot of heat. right? In that case, is thermal conductivity of the mounting surface a big issue? Again, much appreciation for your guidance.



Yes, each CCS needs a 261 ohm resistor plus trimmer pot.  The DN2540 does not need additional heat sinking so it can just sit in the open.  Because you soldered the gate resistors to the transistors, it becomes a little trickier to arrange, but OK.  Here is one way to do it. The 10M90S and DN2540 will be next to each other, with the 10M90S on the left and the DN2540 on the right, at the edge of the perf-board - this allows the 10M90S to be attached to the heat sink. The DN2540 will be close to the heat-sink but not attached to it.

If you use perf-board it can be attached to the heat-sink using a couple small L brackets at each end with one screw into the heatsink and one screw through the perf-board.

First, bend the gate resistor on the DN2540 up until its distant lead is pointing in the opposite direction to the leads on the transistor. Then bend the distant lead back over so it is pointing in the same direction as the transistor leads. Now you can insert the distant end of that resistor along with the transistor leads into the perf-board at its edge

Next, bend the gate resistor on the 10M90S so that the resistor is lying across the transistor and pointing towards the DN2540. Insulate the distant lead of the resistor - an easy way to do this is strip some insulation from an insulated wire and slip it over the resistor lead. Insert the 10M90S into the edge of the perf-board next to the DN2540. Notice that the far end of the 10M90S gate resistor is close to the far right lead of the DN2540.

Now, you can solder the distant end of the 10M90S gate resistor to the far right lead of the DN2540 above the perf-board.

The 261 ohm resistor and trimmer pot can be inserted in the perf-board directly in front of the DN2540, then wire everything up on the underside of the board. I suggest you make a drawing of all the parts and draw in the connections before you proceed.

When everything is connected you should have two free leads - first, the middle lead of the 10M90s, which will go to the B+ lead of the plate resistor, and second, the lead where the gate resistor of the DN2540 gate resistor is soldered to the adjustment resistor and pot. That will go to the tube plate. You will solder wires to each of those. Use different color wires so you know which lead is which. When you are done you should have an assembled heat-sink with 8 wires, 4 of one color and 4 of another color, which will replace the 8 plate resistors you removed earlier.


----------



## Muffinhead

@JimL11 Thank you, that answers every possible remaining question I could have about the project. I'll finish it over the next couple of days and let you all know how it goes.


----------



## SilverEars

What is the difference normal KGSSHV and Carbon?


----------



## paradoxper

SiC FET and generally improved power supply -- all for the latter.


----------



## SeaWo|f (Jan 26, 2018)

a two years back when the carbon was new there were impressions/comparisons posted in this thread if you read back. Or its DIY thread at the other place.


----------



## JimL11

SilverEars said:


> What is the difference normal KGSSHV and Carbon?



Paradoxper is correct, however in addition the Carbon uses a different topology for its output stage. The KGSS and KGSSHV both drive the output transistors as emitter followers via their base terminal.

However, the Carbon drives its output SiC MOSFETs as grounded gate outputs via their source terminals, which is the most linear topology. AFAIK, this topology was first used in the Stax SRM-T2, which used El34 triode connected tubes in an analogous grounded grid topology. This was later used by Kevin Gilmore in his Blue Hawaii amp, and is also used in the Grounded Grid amp, which is basically a Carbon using triode-connected EL34s in place of the SiC MOSFETs.

Since most of these amps are DIY, the power supplies can vary from the basic mini-BH supply, which is similar to Gilmore's original BH supply using 7815 and 7915 IC regulators for the LV front end, to the all bells and whistles Golden Reference HV and LV PS.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

How good are the volume pots Stax uses, on an absolute scale? The dual pot on the 727A is the clearest I've ever heard, which means I don't really have the tools to imagine what "even more transparent" would sound like. Being an audiophile, that's not going to stop me from trying 

So, how much room for improvement is there, really? I'm thinking about going all-in on a CloneNote LDR passive volume control (because the cheapest precision stepped pot I can find isn't that much less expensive). Does anyone have ears-on experience with that or with any LDR pot vs. the one on your electrostat amp?


----------



## soren_brix

SilverEars said:


> What is the difference normal KGSSHV and Carbon?


KGSShv and KGSShv Carbon share most of the circuit topology.
The voltage amplification in both are a cascoded "grounded grid" configuration - quite common in RF-circuit for high speed and low distortion - and also used in the famous Stax T2, Kevin Gilmore based his Blue Hawaii upon.

The most important feature is the ability to have higher current running in the output stage.
The KGSShv is limited to around 10-12mA, where as the Carbon easily can go to +24mA (Like the original Blue Hawaii).

The actual power supply being used for a specific build might vary. Some uses a flavor of the original Blue Hawaii PSU with a simple 78/79xx for low voltage regulation. Others uses the later and more refined Golden Reference for both High and low voltage


----------



## Tinkerer

DJ The Rocket said:


> How good are the volume pots Stax uses, on an absolute scale? The dual pot on the 727A is the clearest I've ever heard, which means I don't really have the tools to imagine what "even more transparent" would sound like. Being an audiophile, that's not going to stop me from trying
> 
> So, how much room for improvement is there, really? I'm thinking about going all-in on a CloneNote LDR passive volume control (because the cheapest precision stepped pot I can find isn't that much less expensive). Does anyone have ears-on experience with that or with any LDR pot vs. the one on your electrostat amp?



They're alps RK27's IIRC on the newer stuff, which is considered pretty good but not top of the line. They're only about $35 apiece. RK50 quads are considered the best modern manufacture and are about $800 new. I've found old military surplus stuff that tracks better than those for $30 range but not full proper log taper so you only get about 40db instead of a full 100db adjustment.


But 727A has a volume passthrough switch under the hood so you should have a direct comparison of pot and no pot on the same amp.


----------



## Jones Bob

Tinkerer said:


> They're alps RK27's IIRC on the newer stuff, which is considered pretty good but not top of the line. They're only about $35 apiece. RK50 quads are considered the best modern manufacture and are about $800 new. I've found old military surplus stuff that tracks better than those for $30 range but not full proper log taper so you only get about 40db instead of a full 100db adjustment.
> 
> 
> But 727A has a volume passthrough switch under the hood so you should have a direct comparison of pot and no pot on the same amp.



Doesn’t the SRM-727A have the dual function volume/channel balance concentric knob control? Stock ALPS RK27 have a single shaft with both channels controlled together. Might be a custom pot.


----------



## Tiazmat

Jones Bob said:


> Doesn’t the SRM-727A have the dual function volume/channel balance concentric knob control? Stock ALPS RK27 have a single shaft with both channels controlled together. Might be a custom pot.


I had always heard it was the RK27 on the 727A, but I do know for sure that it has individual channel tracking.


----------



## statfi

Tinkerer said:


> RK50 quads are considered the best modern manufacture and are about $800 new.


The biggest complaint I have re. my BHSE with RK50's is the lack of ability to control balance.  What's the best dual concentric, independent solution?


----------



## jgazal

Two rk50s?


----------



## SeaWo|f

digital EQ? Or

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...MIu4ms3O722AIVwZd-Ch1PSQT3EAQYASADEgJvNfD_BwE

?


----------



## DJ The Rocket

So it sounds like there's real room for improvement, if I'm this impressed by something that's ultimately middle-of-the-road. Short of coming up with the alchemy to turn a pair of 407s into 007s (subtract 400?) the volume pot sounds like the best way to upgrade my sounds  




Tinkerer said:


> RK50 quads are considered the best modern manufacture and are about $800 new



That RK50 is _way_ out of my price range, but that's interesting nonetheless. I'm just now learning about how pots are made, and I've mostly been reading about ladder steppers and transformer attenuators, I didn't even stop to wonder how good traditional rotary pots can get.

Best in the world though? I know that LDRs have problems of their own, but wouldn't a calibrated LDR setup beat even the best wiper/brush type rotary pot in terms of sound quality? Theoretically, at least, I think it should.

Buuuuut like, why are there so few reviews or impressions of them online? They've been in existence long enough I'd expect to see a subreddit at least. Is the fact that the internet isn't abuzz already kind of a red flag? There are enough positive impressions--along with a few negative ones--that I believe to be honest and genuine. Or at least if they're faked, they were faked by a subtle genius with the patience to spread his lies out over months and years. I'm confident enough to gamble $200 on it I guess.


----------



## JimL11

Jones Bob said:


> Doesn’t the SRM-727A have the dual function volume/channel balance concentric knob control? Stock ALPS RK27 have a single shaft with both channels controlled together. Might be a custom pot.



The single shaft is standard configuration if you're purchasing a single unit as a consumer, but a manufacturer like Stax ordering 500 or 1000 units can easily get a custom order, however the guts are the same as a standard Alps RK27. Even the TOTL SRM-T2 used an R27 type pot.


----------



## bearwarrior

Hi there,


I wanna share some impressions of KGSSHV Carbon and KGHV GG.


Before that, picture time!!!


      


Details of each amp

Carbon: 450V supply, 20mA output current, TKD 4CP-601 volume pot, no servo, F&T 680uF PSU capacitors, XLR input & loopout, two pro bias Stax outputs, same chassis as the DIYT2, dual primary toroid, heat blued steel knob. Weight is approx. 25lbs, LWH is about 16.5"x15.5"x4.5" 

GG: separated power supply, all Solid Silver wirings together with UPCC, Furutech connectors, Gold-point Stepped Attenuators, Umbilical Cord is also 18AWG Solid Silver, Dual Golden References High Voltage and separate dual Low-Voltage (Negative and Positive), LED power indicator has dual mode, White for warming up the filament and Orange for working condition, 425V version, 20mA running, Opto Servo, Oyaide high-grade Silver solder.
Mullard XF2 EL34 (quad set)


Testing headphone: Stax 009

Frequency-based:

Bass:
Carbon’s bass is quite impactful. It is something that is going to wow you. It has good depth, kick drums sound just about right and while it is not as heavy-handed. It may sound just a bit punchier than GG. But GG holds its own position. It is accurate and about right. Both have a decent extension and is not bloated and has a good presence.

Midrange:
Carbon’s midrange is forward and natural. Good clarity. Slightly, very slightly gritty but overall wonderfully balanced and tangible. The best word to describe Carbon is DYNAMIC. However, the GG’s midrange is very smooth and charming. This makes 009 very ethereal with lots of details. So GG can give a very pleasant midrange. Especially, the XF2 quad set gives GG a more spacious soundstage and better imaging. Overall, I personally prefer GG’s midrange.

Treble:
Carbon’s treble is accurate with okay extension. Compared to GG, the treble is less musical. GG’s treble is just a bit tamed but very clean with decent extension. There is no forwardness in the lower treble but it is not withdrawn either. The XF2 quad set is very helpful to improve GG’s treble. Without those, JJ’s EL34 is a little dry.

In conclusion, I find GG has advantages in midrange and treble. The Mullard XF2 is definitely a PLUS for the GG. Carbon holds its own position and gives a terrific bass and amazing resolution. I cannot tell which one is definitely better. It totally depends on the personal preference.

Just let me know if you want to know anything specifically. I will try my best to give you my impression.

Peace.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

@JimL11 You did publish a mod for SRM-T1, among other things replacing resistors with CCS to improve driving ability, so here's my question : are such mods relevant with a SRM-1/mk2 Pro ? Thanks 

Ali


----------



## wink (Jan 27, 2018)

"The biggest complaint I have re. my BHSE with RK50's is the lack of ability to control balance. What's the best dual concentric, independent solution?"







Nothing wrong with the RK50.
You just need to add a balance control......


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

bearwarrior said:


> Hi there,
> 
> 
> I wanna share some impressions of KGSSHV Carbon and KGHV GG.
> ...



Thanks for that awesome write up!
I see that you have the 007 MK1 in your signature, how do you find both amps with it?
And, have you tried Electro Harmonix 6CA7 tubes with the GG?


----------



## JimL11 (Jan 27, 2018)

Jones Bob said:


> A good arguement for using a negative bias voltage perhaps?



Not really, I think with either polarity there is going to be some dust attraction. 



Ali-Pacha said:


> @JimL11 You did publish a mod for SRM-T1, among other things replacing resistors with CCS to improve driving ability, so here's my question : are such mods relevant with a SRM-1/mk2 Pro ? Thanks
> 
> Ali



No personal experience with the SRM-1/mk2 Pro, but assuming my copy of the schematic is correct, it looks as though the output stage uses 54 kilohm ( two 27k resistors in series) loads per side, so I would think the same modification could be done.  Assuming it has a B+ of 350 volts, that would calculate to a CCS of 6.4 mA replacing two resistors, two per channel, four all together. If it uses a B+ of 320 volts like the T1, it would use a CCS of 5.9 mA  replacing two resistors.  Looking at an internal photo, it looks like there is space (barely) for a heat-sink with mounted CCS up against the right side replacing the 8 power resistors.


----------



## paradoxper

Nice to see a T2 funding project, Julian.


----------



## bearwarrior

ToroFiestaSol said:


> Thanks for that awesome write up!
> I see that you have the 007 MK1 in your signature, how do you find both amps with it?
> And, have you tried Electro Harmonix 6CA7 tubes with the GG?



007 MK1's signature is smoothness. I prefer 007 MK1 when I want a long listening session. On Carbon, it is almost a perfect combination. Good bass and smooth midrange and treble. The details are good as well. On GG, any music becomes really musical. I personally prefer GG. But I believe a lot more people prefer Carbon.

I have heard JJ 6CA7. The bass becomes much punchier. But I felt it might lack some smoothness I want. So EL34 is preferred.


----------



## Muffinhead

@JimL11 OK maybe I lied about no more questions: one more before I knock this thing off once and for all. Is it better to use nylon screws for mounting the 10m90s's?I have the insulating washer you recommended but am still paranoid about the circuit being shorted to the heatsink through a metal screw.


----------



## JimL11

If you're worried about it a nylon screw is better - just be careful not to tighten too much as you can rip the head off, then you'll have a heck of a time getting the screw out.


----------



## Jones Bob

I’d recommend non-conductive PEEK glass filled polymer machine screws. Although you cannot torque to the same specs as a metal screw, they do hold the set torque after the amp is powered up. Nylon screws under heat, relax and compromise the thermal coupling between parts. 

You can buy in small quantities on eBay.


----------



## Muffinhead

I completed the soldering for the ccs's. For better space use, I moved the 10m90's above the DN2450's. and unless there is a reason not to, will forego the use of the l brackets and just mount the 10m90's on the heatsink. When testing a circuit, I found myself confused on where to measure the current (Do I need to measure current or am I just measuring the corresponding voltage of 4.9v?). Also, is there a good way to cut the perfboard?


----------



## JimL11

If you read the article, you use a 100 ohm resistor connected in series with the current source as a test resistor to measure the current = 4.9 mA equates to 0.49 (not 4.9) volts.  Alternatively, you can measure 1.28 volts across the 261 ohm resistor.


----------



## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> If you read the article, you use a 100 ohm resistor connected in series with the current source as a test resistor to measure the current = 4.9 mA equates to 0.49 (not 4.9) volts.  Alternatively, you can measure 1.28 volts across the 261 ohm resistor.


ohhh I see...you got that using ohms law. Is there any reason why one wouldn't just measure the voltage across the resistor?


----------



## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> ohhh I see...you got that using ohms law. Is there any reason why one wouldn't just measure the voltage across the resistor?



Either way is fine, whichever is more convenient.  I use 100 ohm or 1000 ohm resistors to test because it doesn't require any calculation to figure out the voltage if you know what current you're aiming for. Also less worry about shorting out parts in the CCS if they are close together.


----------



## statfi (Jan 28, 2018)

My backup earspeakers are a pair each of SR Lambda Signature and SR Lambda Nova Signature which I use with my BHSE.  The older "plain" Lambda's occasionally produce very low level "hash", which I can *not* hear when music is playing, but generally hear only when music is not playing.  The volume of the hash does not change with changes of the input selector or volume control.  The hash is not there when the earspeakers are not plugged in.  (I.e., it is not some sort of mechanical noise, like from the cable rubbing on something.)  I can kind of simulate the hash by putting my upper teeth lightly against my lower lip and gently sucking in air through my mouth, so sort of a buzzing, and very intermittent.  Does anyone know what this might be and/or how to fix it?


----------



## DJ The Rocket

@statfi thermal noise maybe?


----------



## Jones Bob (Jan 28, 2018)

statfi said:


> My backup earspeakers are a pair each of SR Lambda Signature and SR Lambda Nova Signature which I use with my BHSE.  The older "plain" Lambda's occasionally produce very low level "hash", which I can *not* hear when music is playing, but generally hear only when music is not playing.  The volume of the hash does not change with changes of the input selector or volume control.  The hash is not there when the earspeakers are not plugged in.  (I.e., it is not some sort of mechanical noise, like from the cable rubbing on something.)  I can kind of simulate the hash by putting my upper teeth lightly against my lower lip and gently sucking in air through my mouth, so sort of a buzzing, and very intermittent.  Does anyone know what this might be and/or how to fix it?



Both channels equally? Normal or Pro Bias?


----------



## Tinkerer

statfi said:


> My backup earspeakers are a pair each of SR Lambda Signature and SR Lambda Nova Signature which I use with my BHSE.  The older "plain" Lambda's occasionally produce very low level "hash", which I can *not* hear when music is playing, but generally hear only when music is not playing.  The volume of the hash does not change with changes of the input selector or volume control.  The hash is not there when the earspeakers are not plugged in.  (I.e., it is not some sort of mechanical noise, like from the cable rubbing on something.)  I can kind of simulate the hash by putting my upper teeth lightly against my lower lip and gently sucking in air through my mouth, so sort of a buzzing, and very intermittent.  Does anyone know what this might be and/or how to fix it?



Sounds like could be a rare legitimate dust problem. But if it's the same volume in both channels then more likely just some slight background noise in the amp itself. If you're using a single ended input, maybe try a simple ground lifter of low ohm power resistor +tiny cap in parallel.

I did have a similar problem with my old Lamba Spirit once and it was because the internal foam was disintegrating and sticking to the dust shield making weird intermittent buzzes every once in awhile. After I opened it up and cleaned out all the old foam, never had that problem again.


----------



## Don Quichotte

Tinkerer said:


> Sounds like could be a rare legitimate dust problem. But if it's the same volume in both channels then more likely just some slight background noise in the amp itself. If you're using a single ended input, maybe try a simple ground lifter of low ohm power resistor +tiny cap in parallel.
> 
> I did have a similar problem with my old Lamba Spirit once and it was because the internal foam was disintegrating and sticking to the dust shield making weird intermittent buzzes every once in awhile. After I opened it up and cleaned out all the old foam, never had that problem again.



I expect it to be because of the phones. I had some buzzing / squealing problems with my 303's in the past. If you hear the noise and quickly unplug the phones, if it's the amp the sound should stop instantly, while if it's the phones the sound may continue for a second or maybe a little less.


----------



## statfi

Don Quichotte said:


> I expect it to be because of the phones. I had some buzzing / squealing problems with my 303's in the past. If you hear the noise and quickly unplug the phones, if it's the amp the sound should stop instantly, while if it's the phones the sound may continue for a second or maybe a little less.


Thanks to DJ The Rocket, Dib Quichotte, Jones Bob and Tinkerer for the quick response.  The issue persists.  Some diagnostic notes... 
I do not understand why you would suggest thermal noise in this case.  In my mind, hiss is the archetypal thermal noise, which is random and uncorrelated, i.e., the autocorrelation would be a delta function.  This noise is random, but the autocorrelation would have some real structure.  As with the simulation I suggested with my mouth, some the can's noise has some pitch to it.
Only the right channel.  Pro Bias.
When Tinkerer "opened *it *up and cleaned out all the old foam", what is "it".  You are correct, all of the inner and outer foam is badly dilapidated: if you try to grab it with a tweezers it disintegrates so you cannot even pull out chunks.  I have now blown out all that will blow out with canned air, and the same intermittent noise persists.  This model had a nice fairly coarse polymer protective screen on the insides.  Some of the foam bits got inside this screen, between it and protective "mylar" over the driver, which does not blow out.  So did you open the protective screen, or get inside the mylar, or even open up the stators?
Interestingly, on at least two occasions, when I unplug the cans from the BHSE, the noise seems to stop immediately, and then, after ~1min, can come back for about a minute, and then go away for ever.  (I.e., I've been typing at my computer with the cans on but not plugged in for ~30min, and they have been quiet except for that last minute of gasping that started about a minute after unplugging.  Weird, but it suggests that charge stored on the diaphragm was the source of that last gasp.
Related to the last paragraph, how do I remove and replace the ear pads on this model?  It seems that they are held on with some adhesive, that would need to be replaced in the best case.


----------



## Jones Bob (Jan 29, 2018)

statfi said:


> /snip/
> Only the right channel.  Pro Bias.
> /snip/
> Interestingly, on at least two occasions, when I unplug the cans from the BHSE, the noise seems to stop immediately, and then, after ~1min, can come back for about a minute, and then go away for ever.  (I.e., I've been typing at my computer with the cans on but not plugged in for ~30min, and they have been quiet except for that last minute of gasping that started about a minute after unplugging.  Weird, but it suggests that charge stored on the diaphragm was the source of that last gasp.
> /snip/



Thanks for the info.

Only right channel localizes the problem.

With Pro Bias, the diaphrams are connected in the cable.

Strange about the phantom noise coming back after unplugging. When you disconnect the headphones, do you use your finger to short out the jack plugs to drain the diaphragm charge?


----------



## martyn73

Hi,

I've just purchased a used SRM-300 and SR-404 Signature as a bedside system. The SRM-300 seemed appealing because the energiser is vertically mounted and acts as the stand for the SR-404. However, it's not possible to place the dust cover over the headphone and energiser with the phono cable and power cable attached. Am I missing something?

The SRM-300 seems to be a considerable upgrade over my old SRM-212 and Basic headphones. The bass seems to be fuller and the soundstage reasonably wide. The treble is extended without annoying sibilance nor the awful 'etch' that affects (to my mind) the SR-L700 if combined with the SRM-727II.

I'd be grateful for any thoughts on how to protect my SR-404 (or soon the SR-L500) from dust. The SRM-353X is too large and the SR-252S may lack the power to adequately power the SR-L500.

Thanks,

Martyn


----------



## SeaWo|f

Acrylic? Like people use for turn table covers.


----------



## martyn73

The SRM-300 has two sets of cables snaking out the back so it would need to be a big acrylic dust cover.


----------



## SeaWo|f

use 90 degree connectors for the RCA and IEC so the cables go straight down then notch out the bottom of back acrylic piece.


----------



## martyn73

Thanks, that's a great idea. I'll try to find some adaptors unless you have any recommendations


----------



## martyn73

Unfortunately even the sockets are mounted vertically so I'm not sure if 90 connectors will work


----------



## SeaWo|f (Jan 29, 2018)

If I wanted adapters these would work.

https://www.amazon.com/Cerrxian-Fem...17273744&sr=8-35&keywords=angle+iec+connector

https://www.amazon.com/Electop-Fema...id=1517273810&sr=1-9&keywords=angle+rca+cable

Right angle RCA cables are a diam a dozen so that is another option and if you searched for a while you might be able to find a power cable with the length and orientation you need.

I prefer to make my own cables though.

Edit:: I see the pic, RCA cables rotate super easy just angle them a touch.


----------



## martyn73

Thanks so much


----------



## Tinkerer

statfi said:


> When Tinkerer "opened *it *up and cleaned out all the old foam", what is "it".  You are correct, all of the inner and outer foam is badly dilapidated: if you try to grab it with a tweezers it disintegrates so you cannot even pull out chunks.  I have now blown out all that will blow out with canned air, and the same intermittent noise persists.  This model had a nice fairly coarse polymer protective screen on the insides.  Some of the foam bits got inside this screen, between it and protective "mylar" over the driver, which does not blow out.  So did you open the protective screen, or get inside the mylar, or even open up the stators?



You want to lift up the corners of the ear pads and unscrew the 4 screws that hold the ear cup together. Then it all comes apart and you can clean it. Don't puncture the dust shields or take apart the stator.


----------



## Pokemonn (Jan 30, 2018)

darn I was dead wrong. EQing is not so importart.
now my 009 sounds like super rich/fuller/euphonic 8K resolution TV without EQ...
all i did is remove metal made wired rack and put Stax rig on wooden made rack and cork made floor and tweaked power cords. Bingo. Just sound 95% right!
it takes 3 years journey to reach this setup....phew.
I noticed expensive wooden made rack for audio and expensive power cords are not joke at all...
Stax is full of mystery...Lol


----------



## Rossliew

Which brand of power cord are you using?


----------



## Pokemonn (Jan 30, 2018)

I use Luxman JPA-10000. it sound round/dark/mild/but very rich bold nuansed sound.
FYI recently Stax HQ bought Luxman D-05u SACDP for their test listening room for customors.
seems Stax think Luxman pair well with Stax?


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks...perhaps Stax likes the sound of Luxman...


----------



## AudioThief

Friends.

I currently own the SRS 3100 system. I told myself I would not purchase anything non stax ever again, and I'm sticking to it. I had my eyes set on the Stax L700 headphones, but they are quite expensive so waiting for them to pop up used on the domestic market.

Anyways, some guy messaged me saying he had a pair of Stax Lambda Professionals for sale. I haven't gotten a price or anything yet, but should I be looking into these headphones if I already own the L300s? I view L700 as my realistic endgame, but if the old Lamba Pros could be similar in quality I would be interested in those, obviously.


----------



## yaluen

martyn73 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've just purchased a used SRM-300 and SR-404 Signature as a bedside system. The SRM-300 seemed appealing because the energiser is vertically mounted and acts as the stand for the SR-404. However, it's not possible to place the dust cover over the headphone and energiser with the phono cable and power cable attached. Am I missing something?
> 
> ...


Way I did it was to just cut a slit down the center of the Stax vinyl dust cover up to the height of the RCA jacks...


----------



## Muffinhead (Jan 31, 2018)

I'm having some difficulty with the current setting. I am using a 220ohm resistor (which means I'm aiming for 1.078v at a current of 4.9mA, I believe) The resistor is at the end of the green clip and it measures at around 1.15 v for each CCS no matter what I do with the trim pot. The pot +resistor combos are all at ~370 ohms, and the voltage is ~1.15v at the 220 ohm resistor and ~1.33v at the 261
ohm resistors Perhaps I'm not measuring at the right place?


.


----------



## JimL11 (Jan 31, 2018)

So, does turning the pots make any difference in the current? If turning the pots makes no difference at all, then you've got them connected incorrectly.  The 261 ohm resistor and 100 ohm pot are in series - nothing should be connected to the junction of the 261 ohm resistor and 100 ohm pot. One end of this series connection should be connected to the DN2540 source, and the other end to the 100 ohm gate resistor of the DN2540 at its free end (the end NOT connected to the DN2540 gate). The idea is that turning the pot changes the DN2540 source resistor.  I can't tell by your photo, but if you connected the negative wires to the junction between the 100 ohm pot and the 261 ohm resistor then you're not going to get any change in current by adjusting the pot, because that only changes the resistance of the DN2540 gate resistor, and what you want to change is the resistance of the DN2540 source resistor.  The free end of the DN2540 100 ohm gate resistor goes to negative wire and the free end of the DN2540 261 +100 ohm pot source resistor goes to negative wire.


----------



## Muffinhead (Jan 31, 2018)

Here we have the pot + resistor coming from the source and meeting the end of the 100 ohm resistor attached to the gate. They come together at the negative wire. I'm sure something is off with the wiring, as you mentioned Jim, but I can't figure out what it is. Could it be that the 100 ohm resistor from the gate doesn't ever send the current through the pot but instead bypasses it by putting it at its end lead? Also, does the order of the pot + 261 ohm resistor matter in this case (I have it going 261 ohm resistor ->pot ->negative) Edit: I just tested it again, and the pots do work and affect the current. Reducing the pot's resistance increases the voltage, which doesn't make sense.


----------



## JimL11

So, if you reduce the pot's resistance, the current SHOULD increase, which means that the connections are correct. What this means is that in order to get down to 4.9 mA, you have to replace the 261 ohm resistor with a higher value, e.g. around 300 ohms should work. This happens sometimes, as the DN2540 varies a fair amount in the amount of current it generates for a given source resistor. The values I chose work much of the time but sometimes need to be modified to get to the proper current.


----------



## Muffinhead

OK, I'll do that. Much appreciation for your help. Hopefully that'll be the last piece of the puzzle for this project.


----------



## pichu

Anyone know why a STAX amp would have bad channel imbalance (25%-30%)? Then the STAX amp proceeds to die a week after the imbalances started to happen? I was using an IFi power with a polarity inverter. Stax says I was applying the wrong power for my country ( USA ). The iFi power supposedly is a good way to go for the STAX. Also the amp doesn’t explain the channel imbalances does it? Stax says I used the wrong power to the amp when I sent it to them for repair


----------



## JimL11

pichu said:


> Anyone know why a STAX amp would have bad channel imbalance (25%-30%)? Then the STAX amp proceeds to die a week after the imbalances started to happen? I was using an IFi power with a polarity inverter. Stax says I was applying the wrong power for my country ( USA ). The iFi power supposedly is a good way to go for the STAX. Also the amp doesn’t explain the channel imbalances does it? Stax says I used the wrong power to the amp when I sent it to them for repair



Not enough information. 

What amp? I assume SRM252 since that uses a wall-wart PS whereas the other Stax amps don't. But why do we have to guess? Specify.

What iFI power supply? It looks like IFi sells 5, 9, 12 and 15 volt power supplies. If the power supply was too high a voltage, that could explain it - presumably one channel was damaged before the other one resulting in the channel imbalance, then eventually both channels blew. I believe the SRM252 uses a 12 volt wall wart. Have you measured the output voltage of the IFi PS? In any case, I certainly would not use the IFi for the Stax again.


----------



## pichu

My bad


JimL11 said:


> Not enough information.
> 
> What amp? I assume SRM252 since that uses a wall-wart PS whereas the other Stax amps don't. But why do we have to guess? Specify.
> 
> What iFI power supply? It looks like IFi sells 5, 9, 12 and 15 volt power supplies. If the power supply was too high a voltage, that could explain it - presumably one channel was damaged before the other one resulting in the channel imbalance, then eventually both channels blew. I believe the SRM252 uses a 12 volt wall wart. Have you measured the output voltage of the IFi PS? In any case, I certainly would not use the IFi for the Stax again.


! Yes I’m using the 252s. It’s the 12v iFi Power supply. That might’ve been what happened. I’m probably gonna use a step down transformer with the manufacturers supplied power supply


----------



## JimL11

pichu said:


> My bad
> 
> ! Yes I’m using the 252s. It’s the 12v iFi Power supply. That might’ve been what happened. I’m probably gonna use a step down transformer with the manufacturers supplied power supply



Why do you need a step-down transformer? Was this intended for the Japanese market (100V Japan vs 120V US)? If so, another possibility would be to see if Stax will sell you a PS for the US market.


----------



## pichu

It’s a Japanese power supply. I didn’t buy directly through  STAX but I will ask the person I bought it from if they can send it back with a US power supply


----------



## pichu

It’s a Japanese power supply. I didn’t buy directly through  STAX but I will ask the person I bought it from if they can send it back with a US power supply


----------



## kevin gilmore

the stax brick for the srm252 is DC, 12V at rated current, and unregulated. If you get the 100V transformer version and run it on 115, the amp will definitely burn up.
The power brick will also burn up.

if the ifi power brick is also unregulated and was designed for 100V, then it too will burn up the srm252.

what happens is the +/-280V ends up over 310v, the caps are rated at 300v, the power is rated at 5 watts max, the bias current goes up, heat goes up etc...

the srm252 sounds a lot better with a high current regulated 12V power supply  (say 1.5 amps)


----------



## DJ The Rocket

statfi said:


> do not understand why you would suggest thermal noise in this case.



Because people have so many weird ways of describing things that your description could have referred to hiss. In the same way, how you spell the noise a cat makes, for example, varies based on your native language


----------



## JimL11 (Feb 1, 2018)

So, I looked up the IFi website, and their specs for the power supply are 12volts DC at 1.8 amps. They describe "active noise cancellation" but do NOT state the voltage is regulated. Now, it is common for transformers to have voltage drop 10-15% between no load and full load, so my guess is that with the Stax only drawing 4 watts from the wall (1/3 amp at 12 V), the actual voltage output of the IFi is likely 10% high, which is enough to blow the Stax.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

JimL11 said:


> the actual voltage output of the IFi is likely 10% high, which is enough to blow the Stax



I hear people claim to be using 100V units on American 115V mains without their amps blowing, and that's more than 10% high. I don't remember if they were referring to the 252 line specifically though, and they probably weren't.


----------



## JimL11 (Feb 1, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> I hear people claim to be using 100V units on American 115V mains without their amps blowing, and that's more than 10% high. I don't remember if they were referring to the 252 line specifically though, and they probably weren't.



Well, Stax in general runs their stuff conservatively. It depends on how much over specification of components there is. So for example, the SRM-T1 runs at +320volt/-350 volts nominal and has its primary PS caps specified at 400 volts. Going from 100 volts to 115 volts increases the voltages to +368/-402 volts, A lot of places actually have AC voltages of 120 volts, which increases the power rails to +384/-420 volts. Now, components specified at so many volts maximum can often tolerate a bit more, because manufacturing variations mean that in order for every component sold to tolerate the specified voltage, many of them will tolerate more than the specified max. However, as you might imagine, running a capacitor at more than its specified voltage is not a good practice long term.

So yeah, sometimes people can do dumb things without blowing stuff up, but it's still dumb. And it's plain irresponsible to recommend that other people do the same dumb stuff. People drive around without wearing seat belts also and survive - but that's hardly a recommendation to drive without buckling up.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

Right, I wasn't advocating the practice I just wanted a clarification on what the difference was. Which you provided, thank you  

So ~13% over the specified supply voltage works out to ~4-5% over the specified rail voltage?


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## JimL11 (Feb 2, 2018)

No, the ratio of supply voltage to rail voltage is 1:1, i.e. 20% high supply voltage results in 20% high rail voltage. You are confusing rail voltage and maximum capacitor voltage. Maximum capacitor voltage is, by design, ALWAYS higher than rail voltage, e.g. for the T1, design rail voltages are +320/-350, capacitor max voltage is 400, so there should always be a safety margin. A competent engineer or builder ALWAYS uses a part that is rated to tolerate more voltage/current/power than the part should ever see in normal service. ALWAYS! The problem is when rail voltage is higher than maximum capacitor voltage - that's when things are liable to fail.

Look at it this way. If you are designing a building to resist hurricanes, you have to presume a maximum wind speed, say, 120 miles per hour.  For safety's sake, you design it to resist 137 mph  - that's a 14% safety margin - the same as the ratio between 350V rail and 400V rated capacitor.  But if a hurricane hits with a max wind speed of 144 mph, which is 20% over your assumed maximum (same as the ratio between 100VAC and 120VAC) but 5% over your designed maximum, the building is likely to fail.


----------



## miko64

kevin gilmore said:


> the stax brick for the srm252 is DC, 12V at rated current, and unregulated. If you get the 100V transformer version and run it on 115, the amp will definitely burn up.
> The power brick will also burn up.
> 
> if the ifi power brick is also unregulated and was designed for 100V, then it too will burn up the srm252.
> ...


To add srm 252 works very well with 12v battery


----------



## Tinkerer

Unregulated stuff is just a pain in the ass when any regulated 12V supply even off an external hard drive with a polarity adapter is a no brainer that just works. Sounds better too.

You can even go full ridiculous and slap a GRLV on as the 12V supply. I've done that.


----------



## etiefenthaler

kevin gilmore said:


> I believe this is right, but best to check with ohmmeter before powering up
> remove 1,3,6
> add 2,5
> 
> ...




Did it yesterday. Amp is working fine now on 230V. 
Thanks a lot.

Erich


----------



## statfi

DJ The Rocket said:


> Because people have so many weird ways of describing things that your description could have referred to hiss. In the same way


Good point.  Language for audio issues is difficult.  Clarity is good.
The problem is still there, essentially not getting worse or better, so I am still open to suggestions.  I have cleaned away all the old, rotted foam.


----------



## hpeter

stax drivers HV attracting dust ??? 
You did not looked on bare drivers i guess. 
I did on my lambdas and omegas, there are protector foils, no outside air will come in..  
Can we finally put this BS to rest ?

Drivers are assembled in dustless area. http://e-earphone.blog/?p=71193 We had in our factory, similar setup when manufacturing security cameras (optic assembly in dustless area)


----------



## hpeter

kevin gilmore said:


> the stax brick for the srm252 is DC, 12V at rated current, and unregulated. If you get the 100V transformer version and run it on 115, the amp will definitely burn up.
> The power brick will also burn up.
> 
> if the ifi power brick is also unregulated and was designed for 100V, then it too will burn up the srm252.
> ...


this is another example why i hate stax amps.
not a safe design, for that price it should be really damage proof ...  But it is NOT.
Shame really!


----------



## JimL11 (Feb 2, 2018)

hpeter said:


> this is another example why i hate stax amps.
> not a safe design, for that price it should be really damage proof ...  But it is NOT.
> Shame really!



Not sure what your issue is. The amp is perfectly safe if used with its stock power supply at the proper voltage. Take any amp used in the US, plug it into a European socket at twice the voltage and it WILL blow up.  Take a curve designed for 30 miles per hour at 120 miles per hour and you WILL crash. Nothing can be made fool-proof because fools are so clever and devious.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

JimL11 said:


> Nothing can be made fool-proof because fools are so clever and devious.



A fool is the most dangerous opponent for a master. Fools in general don't get the credit they deserve.


----------



## Quixote79

Muffinhead said:


> Here we have the pot + resistor coming from the source and meeting the end of the 100 ohm resistor attached to the gate. They come together at the negative wire. I'm sure something is off with the wiring, as you mentioned Jim, but I can't figure out what it is. Could it be that the 100 ohm resistor from the gate doesn't ever send the current through the pot but instead bypasses it by putting it at its end lead? Also, does the order of the pot + 261 ohm resistor matter in this case (I have it going 261 ohm resistor ->pot ->negative) Edit: I just tested it again, and the pots do work and affect the current. Reducing the pot's resistance increases the voltage, which doesn't make sense.


me never touch soldier my self and get plenty inspiration from you mod a stax. will try to do same with my kgshv and improve


----------



## hpeter

JimL11 said:


> Not sure what your issue is. The amp is perfectly safe if used with its stock power supply at the proper voltage. Take any amp used in the US, plug it into a European socket at twice the voltage and it WILL blow up.  Take a curve designed for 30 miles per hour at 120 miles per hour and you WILL crash. Nothing can be made fool-proof because fools are so clever and devious.


 seriously, are we living on same planet ?
 when i look at MEANWELL taiwan switching powersupplies, they have many fullrange units in all shapes.
85~264V AC, 120~370V DC
(without switching a range)


----------



## JimL11

Quixote79 said:


> me never touch soldier my self and get plenty inspiration from you mod a stax. will try to do same with my kgshv and improve



Well, good luck with that, considering that the latest KGSSHV has exactly the same constant current source design as the one Muffinhead built.


----------



## JimL11 (Feb 2, 2018)

hpeter said:


> seriously, are we living on same planet ?
> when i look at MEANWELL taiwan switching powersupplies, they have many fullrange units in all shapes.
> 85~264V AC, 120~370V DC
> (without switching a range)



Yes, you can build a universal power supply good for every region - I have a cordless shaver and laptop that can be recharged worldwide just by using a plug adapter. Stax used to build their amps so that they could be converted to the local AC voltage. I have a SRM-T1 that can be switched internally for different voltages.  However, currently they choose to build amps specific for different markets. Japanes is 100V only, North America is 120V, most of the rest of the world is 220-240 volts. Perhaps they're trying to limit grey market, who knows. That's their commercial decision. Doesn't make their amps unsafe - just limited. Using a step-down or step-up transformer can "fix" the problem. An annoyance but hardly living on a different planet. Calm down.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Feb 2, 2018)

hpeter said:


> seriously, are we living on same planet ?
> when i look at MEANWELL taiwan switching powersupplies, they have many fullrange units in all shapes.
> 85~264V AC, 120~370V DC
> (without switching a range)



I fail to see how Meanwell is an improvement. What if you want to plug it into a 25 kilowatt power supply? It goes _BOOM! _is what! Using it out of spec STILL causes permanent damage!

Edited by mod.


----------



## JimL11

Hmm, a couple posts disappeared which makes some of the recent ones look disjointed.


----------



## kevin gilmore

the meanwell switching power supplies are actually pretty decent with about 20mv of noise on the output. This one
http://www.meanwell.com/webapp/product/search.aspx?prod=MPM-30
12 volt 2.5 amp screw terminal is easy to use. And the price is right.

I still prefer linear regulated power supplies to drive the srm252. Certainly bigger heavier and a bit more expensive.

switchers driving switchers can sometimes do interesting things

if the switcher inside the 252 was actually regulated instead of open loop, many problems would be eliminated with little increase in cost.

Except for the srm300 and the front end of the T8000 stax has never done regulated high voltage supplies for their electrostatic amplifiers.
Yet their big power amps had regulated power supplies. Go figure


----------



## AnakChan

JimL11 said:


> Hmm, a couple posts disappeared which makes some of the recent ones look disjointed.


Actually, no moderations had been done to this thread since October when you posted the above. Maybe members have edited their posts after the first version.

Having said that, I -have- just removed some off-topic trolling now.


----------



## hpeter (Feb 3, 2018)

DJ The Rocket said:


> I fail to see how Meanwell is an improvement. What if you want to plug it into a 25 kilowatt power supply? It goes _BOOM! _is what! Using it out of spec STILL causes permanent damage!
> 
> Edited by mod.


people you dont follow what i mean.
my point is, that modern fullrange AC wallwart supplies are available, so that kind of overvoltage and stax amp damage is NOT likely to happen. No matter if you plug it into 100 or 240 AC
So the question is, WHY stax packs in srm252 box, such bad powersupply?  Which it seems being not DC stabilised, makes whole setup more fragile.
And to make things worse, wall AC has tolerance specs; it can move by __% up and down during the day.

Those switching supplies for example, does not cost arm and leg, and are DC stabilised of course.
*My feeling as a customer, is that stax is shaving off every penny on their amps BOM.* Which IMO, on price tags like those amps, it is not acceptable.    In the past i said that i am absolutely OK with stax headphones, pricing and quality is good. But amps, i think like it is done by some low subcontractor or something.   (T8000 is different animal, but for +5000$ it better has to be !!)
And about other question, if  i  think some forum members are part of stax-- frankly, i do not know. But i hope that stax representatives pay a visit and take a read.  (Stax website is very oldschool, customer service - mail requests, basically is non existent. Customers have no place to put their "rants".)

EDIT- switching supplies have often bad names for being "dirty". I have to mention again  "each penny shaving greed"  because it´s up to designer, to put extra filtering after this powersupply; and make things deeply inaudible.
Benefit of switching supplies is the efficiency, not possible with heavy iron transformers


----------



## ahmedie

oh i just did the feedback mod for 727a!!! 
https://ibb.co/dtRX3m
https://ibb.co/mhoO9R
https://ibb.co/iv8O9R
Actually i failed bcz i hear everything in the middle without left or right .... then for split of second my headphone almost blown up with sound and now i my amp only play very very low sound with noise in the background ... not sure how to fix it now .... T.T


----------



## ahmedie (Feb 3, 2018)

ahmedie said:


> oh i just did the feedback mod for 727a!!!
> https://ibb.co/dtRX3m
> https://ibb.co/mhoO9R
> https://ibb.co/iv8O9R
> Actually i failed bcz i hear everything in the middle without left or right .... then for split of second my headphone almost blown up with sound and now i my amp only play very very low sound with noise in the background ... not sure how to fix it now .... T.T


...
edit ... well now it is working .... im still afraid to play again as u can see i fried the those transistors to get the solder right !! LOL

btw do the direction of transistor matter? bcz I look closely to the pictures and I have 1 transistor in flipped direction


----------



## JimL11 (Feb 3, 2018)

hpeter said:


> people you dont follow what i mean.



No, I get your point. So you think you know better than the engineers at Stax how to design and market an inexpensive electrostatic headphone amp.



hpeter said:


> my point is, that modern fullrange AC wallwart supplies are available, so that kind of overvoltage and stax amp damage is NOT likely to happen. No matter if you plug it into 100 or 240 AC
> So the question is, WHY stax packs in srm252 box, such bad powersupply?  Which it seems being not DC stabilised, makes whole setup more fragile.
> And to make things worse, wall AC has tolerance specs; it can move by __% up and down during the day.
> 
> ...



Yup, Stax is a cheapskate, that's why their amps run for 20+ years without breaking down. So here's the thing. The ratio between parts cost and retail price is generally taken to be around 5:1. That means for an SRM-252 that retails for $380, there are about $75 worth of parts in it - that includes transistors, caps, resistors, case and power supply. And I'll give you a clue: the power supply is generally where the cost cutting is done the most. Why? Because it's less audible than cost-cutting elsewhere. Don't believe me?  Look at the legendary SRM-T2 - a gazillion parts stuffed into a too-small case like 50 lbs of potatoes in a 40 lb sack. And its power supply - a simple CRC passive supply. And even then, that amp drove the original Stax company into bankruptcy. So much for cost-cutting. The power supply is almost always where the engineer says, "good enough." So, yeah, a regulated DC wall wart is possible, and universal. But it is more expensive, and remember that every $1 increase in cost results in $5 increase in the retail price. A passive wall wart is super-cheap and "good enough." You get NO increase in reliability with a switching type PS - as long as you don't plug it into the wrong voltage. And plugging it into the wrong voltage constitutes abuse, which most warranties don't cover. Why should Stax charge extra money for a switching wall wart PS that for most customers will make NO difference. Unacceptable?  Save your indignation for something that really matters.



hpeter said:


> And about other question, if  i  think some forum members are part of stax-- frankly, i do not know. But i hope that stax representatives pay a visit and take a read.  (Stax website is very oldschool, customer service - mail requests, basically is non existent. Customers have no place to put their "rants".)
> 
> EDIT- switching supplies have often bad names for being "dirty". I have to mention again  "each penny shaving greed"  because it´s up to designer, to put extra filtering after this powersupply; and make things deeply inaudible.
> Benefit of switching supplies is the efficiency, not possible with heavy iron transformers



And extra filtering costs more money, so we're back to the cost-cutting thing again. Cost-cutting "greed" is why the 252 costs $380 and not, say, $600, which would no doubt having you screaming about how much you have to pay for a tiny little box with a wall wart PS. Oh, and I have nothing to do with Stax commercially. I live in the wilds of New Mexico, where there isn't even a local dealer. And the forum rules dictate that if I DID have something to do with Stax, or any other audio company, I would have to register as a member of the trade.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Feb 3, 2018)

ahmedie said:


> ...
> edit ... well now it is working .... im still afraid to play again as u can see i fried the those transistors to get the solder right !! LOL
> 
> btw do the direction of transistor matter? bcz I look closely to the pictures and I have 1 transistor in flipped direction



Post pics of the cards?

What were you doing messing with the transistors in the first place? The mod involves moving two resistors per card and nothing else (or in most cases, removing two and replacing them with new ones). I've done it on mine, which had the evil glued-on resistors. Also, this is a power amplifier that's heat-sunk very well IME, what kind of heat were you using to cause damage? I ended up using way more heat than usual for desoldering mine, and didn't have that problem. I'm just trying to understand what you're looking at



hpeter said:


> people you dont follow what i mean.



I assume this was directed at me. I thought it was clear I knew exactly what you meant but I was being facetious. Sorry if that was over the line


----------



## Tinkerer

Pretty sure he's confusing the resistors with transistors. He posted the pics of what he did.

Problem also looks like it's cold joints on the mods because those look rough. And he's missing a big chunk of insulation on one of the resistors.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Feb 3, 2018)

Ah right I read right over the links, yes I agree with your assessment now @Tinkerer

In the second picture, the resistor on the left. It looks like it's attached to a different trace next to it. Is that right? I don't think it is and I didn't do that to mine. I bet that's causing some of the problems of not all of them.

If I were you @ahmedie  I'd trash the original resistors and replace with brand new ones, going from the original "bottom" connection (as oriented in that second pic) directly to the unused traces. I used these 150k 1w 1% vishay ones that are actually overkill but cost all of 25¢ apiece


----------



## ahmedie

DJ The Rocket said:


> Ah right I read right over the links, yes I agree with your assessment now @Tinkerer
> 
> In the second picture, the resistor on the left. It looks like it's attached to a different trace next to it. Is that right? I don't think it is and I didn't do that to mine. I bet that's causing some of the problems of not all of them.
> 
> If I were you @ahmedie  I'd trash the original resistors and replace with brand new ones, going from the original "bottom" connection (as oriented in that second pic) directly to the unused traces. I used these 150k 1w 1% vishay ones that are actually overkill but cost all of 25¢ apiece



guess i will do that !! i cannot get thing to stick together after melting the solider ... do you know the reason ? i only have 10 minutes soldiering experience lol


----------



## Muffinhead

ahmedie said:


> guess i will do that !! i cannot get thing to stick together after melting the solider ... do you know the reason ? i only have 10 minutes soldiering experience lol


You have to tin the leads before you apply solder. Otherwise the solder won't connect. Also, you want to use flux or rosin core solder.


----------



## JimL11 (Feb 3, 2018)

ahmedie said:


> guess i will do that !! i cannot get thing to stick together after melting the solider ... do you know the reason ? i only have 10 minutes soldiering experience lol



First, I assume that you are using electronic solder, which contains rosin flux in it, if not, get some and use ONLY that for electronics work.

So, you don't heat the solder and touch it to the component or wire, you heat the wires and let that melt the solder so if flows freely - a few seconds should do it if you have the proper solder and the proper soldering iron. You should put a bit of solder on the tip of the iron to help with heating the wires, touch the iron tip to the wire(s) to be soldered, then touch the solder to the opposite side of the wire from where the soldering iron tip is touching. Take a look at the other solder joints on the circuit board to see what a good solder joint looks like - notice how the solder blends smoothly into the circuit board pad and what remains of the component wires.

An exercise to test your ability to solder correctly:

cut 4 bare wires about 2" long and lay them out in a square with the ends overlapping.  Solder the wires into s solid square. If you have done a good job, you should be able to squash the wires together and spread them apart again to form the square without anything breaking.


----------



## ahmedie

JimL11
Muffinhead
Thank you very much for the soldering tips!! I will train more before i do the next solder !
*https://www.head-fi.org/members/jiml11.437292/*


----------



## DJ The Rocket

@ahmedie just to stress the point:

*PRACTICE! *Practice desoldering on the PCB out of some junk you were going to throw away (hint: use a desoldering wick!), practice soldering headphone cables and then test them to make sure the connections are good. Read tips and tutorials online, there are a zillion good how-to videos for example. Soldering isn't a hard skill to learn, but it does need to be learned first.

If you ordered the resistors I linked, start practicing now and you'll be comfortable with it by the time they arrive!


----------



## ahmedie

legendary omega on auction ... 2000$ and going up!!
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/b294416976


----------



## Tinkerer

It was at $1200 just a couple days ago. Now about $2500. Headband may be busted but that's an easy parts swap and the rest of the thing looks good so probably will keep going up.


----------



## Muffinhead

How do those cans sound, anyway? I have a feeling they're more a collector's item than anythinh else.


----------



## SeaWo|f

some people still swear by them. 

I would be hesitant to pay these kind of prices though for a 20+ year old headphone when I thought I read Stax doesn't have replacement drivers anymore.


----------



## wuwhere

I would like to listen to it but not own one.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/what-is-the-difference-between-stax-omega-1-and-stax-omega2.322545/


----------



## ahmedie

wuwhere said:


> I would like to listen to it but not own one.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/what-is-the-difference-between-stax-omega-1-and-stax-omega2.322545/


I read that and the the comparison link inside. It feel like a history class


----------



## SeaWo|f

Keep one thing in mind, spritzer comment(2008) about the sound of the original omega with the 007 driver probably applies to the 007mki driver, though it could be the mkii driver but definitely not the current revision mk2.9 which sounds a bit different.

Idk if he or anyone could comment on how the omega would sound with the current so called mk2.9 driver?


----------



## ToroFiestaSol (Feb 4, 2018)

According to what I could read, the housing is extremely important too. SR-007 has a full metal housing, much stiffer than the Omega's resin cartwheel frame, plus a better designed headband (and spare parts available, unlike the Omega), so it should be the superior transducer if both have the same drivers.
PS: notice that I said "should be" and "if both have the same drivers" (SR-007 MK2.9 drivers in Omega housing, not the original drivers), don't jump on me, I haven't heard the Omega.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I agree it could go that way. I just tried to be very conservative with my comment because of the cost involved with the sr-omega these days.


----------



## Muffinhead

How can I tell if I have a pair of Sr-007 MK2'S or Mk2.9's?


----------



## SeaWo|f

Well I think the silent upgrade was 2015. So if your purchase was recent I think you are good. As far as I know the international serial numbers seem random. Not sure if the Japanese production serial numbers could be used to tell, or if someone has spotted a physical difference.


----------



## Muffinhead

I bought a used pair recently and have no idea how to tell. They're also port modded so IDK what the difference between port modded MK2 vs MK2.9 would be.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

E-mail Stax with the serial number of your headphone and ask for the manufacturing date 
Spritzer spotted the "2.9" version in march 2015 if I'm correct, so if it's after that date then it is a MK 2.9.


----------



## Muffinhead

ToroFiestaSol said:


> E-mail Stax with the serial number of your headphone and ask for the manufacturing date
> Spritzer spotted the "2.9" version in march 2015 if I'm correct, so if it's after that date then it is a MK 2.9.


Thanks. What differences in sound exist between these two editions?


----------



## joseph69

Muffinhead said:


> I bought a used pair recently and have no idea how to tell. They're also port modded so IDK what the difference between port modded MK2 vs MK2.9 would be.


Do you like the way they sound?
If so, that's all that matters.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol (Feb 5, 2018)

I haven't compared both, but the MK2.9 is supposed to be the best MK2 revision.
I love mine 

I have the MK2.9 with the port mod and the MK1 metal arcs in the earpads (bought worn out MK1 earpads and put their metal arcs in the black earpads, the MK1 arcs are bigger and improve the sound a bit). The last step is getting a good seal with them, then get a KG amp and a good source and heaven opens in front of you, what an incredible headphone


----------



## SeaWo|f

Curious what you thought of the 2.9 before and after port mod. I haven't seen details about it's its effects with the new revision.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol (Feb 5, 2018)

SeaWo|f said:


> Curious what you thought of the 2.9 before and after port mod. I haven't seen details about it's its effects with the new revision.



Difference was not as large as I expected, but the bass feels more solid and integrated with the rest of the sound, vocals pop out a bit more because of that, feels very balanced sounding. 
Without the mod the sound is still great but has a tiny bit of mid-bass bloat, the mod takes care of it.
Downside is the Stax fart, but I can live with it.


----------



## Muffinhead

joseph69 said:


> Do you like the way they sound?
> If so, that's all that matters.


Yes, I very much do like their sound. The amp...not so much, which is why I'm modding it now.


----------



## Muffinhead

Resoldered the new resistors, voltage checks out at 16 and 22 v from the batteries. I have applied the ceramic mounts with thermal paste to the heatsink, but am unsure how to apply the mosfets. Do i put thermal paste on the back of them and then press down?


----------



## AudioThief

I am quite close dropping 1400 usd on a used 007 & t1 combo if the t1 is operational after repair. Currently own the 252 and l300. My other option is to purchase stax sr l700 and use it with my 252. In both scenarios I will eventually upgrade the amp. 

What do you deem as objectively the best purchase here? The l700 new costs the same as the used 007/t1


----------



## Muffinhead

AudioThief said:


> I am quite close dropping 1400 usd on a used 007 & t1 combo if the t1 is operational after repair. Currently own the 252 and l300. My other option is to purchase stax sr l700 and use it with my 252. In both scenarios I will eventually upgrade the amp.
> 
> What do you deem as objectively the best purchase here? The l700 new costs the same as the used 007/t1


007 all the way


----------



## AudioThief

Muffinhead said:


> 007 all the way



Thanks for the reply. Any comparisons sonically? And how serious will I cripple its sound using a t1?


----------



## Muffinhead

AudioThief said:


> Thanks for the reply. Any comparisons sonically? And how serious will I cripple its sound using a t1?


I don't have the l700. From what I have heard, however, the L700 is a bit like the sr009 - meaning more treble and less mids. TBH, the sr007 sounds a bit muddy with the T1. However, you can mod the T1 to improve ita performance (something I'm doing right now and have yet to hear thr results of). If you don't want to do that, you can pretty easily resell the T1.


----------



## AudioThief

Muffinhead said:


> I don't have the l700. From what I have heard, however, the L700 is a bit like the sr009 - meaning more treble and less mids. TBH, the sr007 sounds a bit muddy with the T1. However, you can mod the T1 to improve ita performance (something I'm doing right now and have yet to hear thr results of). If you don't want to do that, you can pretty easily resell the T1.



Exactly how muddy? Would the l700 via the 252 sound significantly better before.mod or amp upgrade foe 007? I will have to live with the combo for some time


----------



## Muffinhead

AudioThief said:


> Exactly how muddy? Would the l700 via the 252 sound significantly better before.mod or amp upgrade foe 007? I will have to live with the combo for some time


Let's be clear: these are both world class pieces of equipment (Sr007 and T1), so they sound fantastic compared to basically anything else. If you wanna audiophile nitpick like we all do, then yes, there is a slight bit of confused bass that my ears picked up. I could live with it, but I wanted to DIY anyway so I decided to try to make it even better than it already is. Bottom line: you'll likely be happy with the T1 Sr007 combo.


----------



## AudioThief

Muffinhead said:


> Let's be clear: these are both world class pieces of equipment (Sr007 and T1), so they sound fantastic compared to basically anything else. If you wanna audiophile nitpick like we all do, then yes, there is a slight bit of confused bass that my ears picked up. I could live with it, but I wanted to DIY anyway so I decided to try to make it even better than it already is. Bottom line: you'll likely be happy with the T1 Sr007 combo.



Thanks. That is what I figured myself, but I have no experience with it. Just keep reading how power hungry it is.


----------



## SeaWo|f

If you know you want a new amp later then without question I vote for the better transducer -sr007


----------



## AudioThief

SeaWo|f said:


> If you know you want a new amp later then without question I vote for the better transducer -sr007



Thanks for the input. I will upgrade amp at some point likely this year, but I want to be able to enjoy my 1400 usd purchase before I upgrade amp, thats essentially my worry hehe. 

There seems to have been a lot of hype around the l700 as many seems to view them as equal in ability to sr007. I take it you guys disagree with that.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I have not heard the l700, so I will not comment on its sound compared to the 007. I have not seen people referencing them as equal. I had seen people like the l700 more than the 007 on some amps but that in the cases I've seen has been acknowledged by the individual to be because of the relative needs to drive each to its maximum.


----------



## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> Resoldered the new resistors, voltage checks out at 16 and 22 v from the batteries. I have applied the ceramic mounts with thermal paste to the heatsink, but am unsure how to apply the mosfets. Do i put thermal paste on the back of them and then press down?



Correct. You don't need a lot of paste - the idea is to fill any gaps/irregularities between the insulator and heatsink or MOSFET - if they were all perfectly flat with 100% contact you could do without the paste. Here's an interesting post I found on spreading paste.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Thermal-Paste-Application-Techniques-170/


----------



## catscratch

I'm not sure what the output power of the (stock) T1 is, but I'd wager it's not enough for the 007. In terms of 007 vs L700 - the 007 is on a higher level technically. A bit more resolution, bigger and more 3d soundstage, better imaging, more tactile slam to the sound and tighter, more extended bass. However the L700 is a bit more neutral in some ways - the 007 has a big dip around the presence region, 2khz to 5khz, which makes it sound a bit muffled at low to medium volumes. Combine that with the fact that without sufficient output you'll start to lose some presence at both ends of the spectrum, and you get to a point where an underdriven 007 doesn't sound very good IMO and would be a waste of money.

Basically, if you go 007, get a KGSS or similar amp. With a lesser amp, get the L700.

The L700 is a great high-end headphone in its own right, enough resolution to be truly transparent, great mids and highs, and pretty decent soundstage with very holographic imaging. It doesn't scale like the 007 and doesn't reach the same heights, but it's a bit more neutral, is far easier to drive, and is definitely better for low to medium level listening. On the flip side, a well-driven 007 is really something else, but it takes some work and money to get there.

Unfortunately, 'stats and 'stat rigs are a bit like a hole in your desk into which you pour your money. So tread carefully.


----------



## SeaWo|f (Feb 5, 2018)

If cost is an issue I would sill go the 007 route.

After purchase fix the t1, probably caps, feed back mod. Then sell it, the 252 and l300.

Use that money for a used kgsshv or spritzer s budget version.

Just how I am, I would feel I missed out when passing on the 007.

Edit:: you will sill need to inject some cash to get the new amp, selling your plasma for a few weeks will cover that.


----------



## JimL11

SeaWo|f said:


> After purchase fix the t1, probably caps, feed back mod. Then sell it, the 252 and l300.
> 
> Use that money for a used kgsshv or spritzer s budget version.
> 
> Just how I am, I would feel I missed out when passing on the 007.



Um, the T1 doesn't have a feedback mod.  It has a CCS mod, which @Muffinhead is building, that improves its drive capability to where it can drive the 007. It still doesn't have the drive capability of a KGST, or the regulated power supply of the KG amps, but it does a decent job with the 007. 

An unmodded T1 does fine with any of the Lambda models.


----------



## SeaWo|f

My bad. Was typing T1 and thinking 727 for some reason.


----------



## AudioThief

catscratch said:


> I'm not sure what the output power of the (stock) T1 is, but I'd wager it's not enough for the 007. In terms of 007 vs L700 - the 007 is on a higher level technically. A bit more resolution, bigger and more 3d soundstage, better imaging, more tactile slam to the sound and tighter, more extended bass. However the L700 is a bit more neutral in some ways - the 007 has a big dip around the presence region, 2khz to 5khz, which makes it sound a bit muffled at low to medium volumes. Combine that with the fact that without sufficient output you'll start to lose some presence at both ends of the spectrum, and you get to a point where an underdriven 007 doesn't sound very good IMO and would be a waste of money.
> 
> Basically, if you go 007, get a KGSS or similar amp. With a lesser amp, get the L700.
> 
> ...



I value your opinion greatly - I know of your extensive time in the headphone game. Thank you for your input!

I was actually thinking about getting a Stax amp (727 for instance?), as they are readily available on the domestic market. While the mjolnir amps are geographically close (From Island to Norway), the import tax is ridiculous in Norway, so it would be extremely costly to get one of their amps. 

You are right, electrostat-rigs are expensive. But what I learned when I heard the SRS 3100 is that dynamic/planars are essentially not interesting for me, as clearly to my ears electrostats are far superior for my tastes. So I view any purchase I do now a long term investment - I am not looking to switch and swap a bunch - there aren't many options for me going forward.. Its essentially, in my eyes:

L700 + good amp
SR-007 + good amp
SR-009 + good amp

Now, my thinking goes that L700 is perhaps more immediately satisfying given that the SR-007 needs a good amp, which the T1 might not be for the 007. I have no idea if L700 via 252 sounds better or worse than SR007 via T1, however someone in the L700 thread said that 252 was almost same performance as 006ts with the L700. 

The SR-009 will be out of my budget for many years to come, and so really the SR-007 used is my only option to get into that high fidelity. I can justify purchasing an expensive amp to round out my setup, but not 009 + amp at the money I'd have to dish out.



SeaWo|f said:


> If cost is an issue I would sill go the 007 route.
> 
> After purchase fix the t1, probably caps, feed back mod. Then sell it, the 252 and l300.
> 
> ...



I get the feeling that I need to jump on the opportunity to get a SR-007 if it is significantly better than the L700, which it seems to be.. At least long term. 

I have a bunch of dynamics I can / will sell... 

TH 900, HD650, AH-D5000, JVC HPDX1000, and of course my L300 + 252 which could be sold in the future. So my thinking was sr-007 + T1, then upgrade to a stax amp such as 727 to pair with the 007.


----------



## SeaWo|f

With such a varied collection make sure you feel that you can be happy with a single high-end setup. Some are happier with the variety. I can understand why.


----------



## Tinkerer

AudioThief said:


> So my thinking was sr-007 + T1, then upgrade to a stax amp such as 727 to pair with the 007.



I'll tell you right now as someone that has had both, a T1 will sound superior to a 727A modded or unmodded with a 007. Just save your money for a KG/SRX+ build if you want to upgrade. Everything else is pretty much sidegrades and the old T1 if she's got good caps and tubes is pretty much top of that particular heap for the price. A good power supply on the tiny amps is pretty impressive too. Take your old 252S and slap a regulated 1.5A or so wall wart with the correct polarity on it and compare it to the T1 once you get it in. They'll be closer than you expect.


----------



## AudioThief

SeaWo|f said:


> With such a varied collection make sure you feel that you can be happy with a single high-end setup. Some are happier with the variety. I can understand why.



I will probably keep one dynamic headphone for bass purposes. 95% of the time I listen to my L300, and have been since I got them in october.



Tinkerer said:


> I'll tell you right now as someone that has had both, a T1 will sound superior to a 727A modded or unmodded with a 007. Just save your money for a KG/SRX+ build if you want to upgrade. Everything else is pretty much sidegrades and the old T1 if she's got good caps and tubes is pretty much top of that particular heap for the price. A good power supply on the tiny amps is pretty impressive too. Take your old 252S and slap a regulated 1.5A or so wall wart with the correct polarity on it and compare it to the T1 once you get it in. They'll be closer than you expect.



Interesting. What is an SRX? I gotta admit I am a bit confused about all the mjolnir amps.. Which amplifiers should I be looking at for the 007 specifically?


----------



## SeaWo|f

That will largely be based on your budget.


----------



## AudioThief

SeaWo|f said:


> That will largely be based on your budget.



I mean, the budget is limitless over a big enough span of time. The question is what is actually necessary to get. Obviously you could say "well in that case get the Carbon top model its the best", but I am thinking in terms of having a true endgame setup where you are not gimping the 007s.


----------



## SeaWo|f

He has worked hard to make his "cheap KGSSHV" more palatable entry point to highend. I would strongly consider that.. But if you want end game from him it's the Carbon and if you are obsessive the Carbon CC. If you like a warmer tone maybe the KGST.


----------



## Muffinhead

I am just about ready to turn it on. Checked continuity, made sure bare wire was insulated, etc. I would like to verify that I did, in fact, solder the wires to the correct places. Here's a labeled pic of the joints.


----------



## JimL11

AudioThief said:


> I will probably keep one dynamic headphone for bass purposes. 95% of the time I listen to my L300, and have been since I got them in october.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. What is an SRX? I gotta admit I am a bit confused about all the mjolnir amps.. Which amplifiers should I be looking at for the 007 specifically?



The SRX is a DIY tube stat amp from Stax in the late 1960s. The SRX+ is my modification using MOSFET constant current sources to bring its drive capability and sound quality up to modern standards. It is DIY only, relatively easy to build, and similar sound quality level to a maxed out KGST, but perhaps a bit more liquid sound.


----------



## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> I am just about ready to turn it on. Checked continuity, made sure bare wire was insulated, etc. I would like to verify that I did, in fact, solder the wires to the correct places. Here's a labeled pic of the joints.



Looks good. I would bring it up with a Variac if you have one. The article discusses how to adjust balance and offset - It will drift over the first 30 min to hour.  Leave the top on between adjustments, and you will notice that taking off the top to make the adjustments will result in a few volts shift. Good luck.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

Tinkerer said:


> T1 will sound superior to a 727A modded or unmodded with a 007.



What is the drawback to a modded 727A? Does it really lack power, or just gain? If I used a big active preamp to push towards the amp's 30V rated input, wouldn't that mitigate all or most of the lack of gain?


----------



## Muffinhead

It turned on!


----------



## Tinkerer

DJ The Rocket said:


> What is the drawback to a modded 727A? Does it really lack power, or just gain? If I used a big active preamp to push towards the amp's 30V rated input, wouldn't that mitigate all or most of the lack of gain?



Everything has gain. You can drive up the volume even on a tiny 252. When I'm pulling apart stuff to work on my circlotron and not run it as a carbon, I use an SRM-Xh with a GRLV and it's more than adequate with my 007's. 727A problem is tone, just dark dark dark. Then the mod drops it down to about one dark instead of three. Which is fine with some lambdas that tend to have too much scratch in the treble, but not the best with a slightly warm phone like the 007. 007's like neutral amps. It's still okay, has lots of detail and the mod much improves it, but the T1 is better for what you want.


----------



## Muffinhead

@JimL11 I'm adjusting the offset and balance now. I can get each channel's output down to about 2v: is this ok? Also, by ground terminal, do you mean the ground at the back of the chassis or the bias out in the socket?


----------



## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> @JimL11 I'm adjusting the offset and balance now. I can get each channel's output down to about 2v: is this ok? Also, by ground terminal, do you mean the ground at the back of the chassis or the bias out in the socket?



2V is more than adequate, and will change if the AC voltage changes, and will also drift a bit. Stax specifies that the outputs should be within +/-15V of ground.

You can use the ground terminal at the back of the chassis. The bias is at +230V or +580v (it will measure less than that if you have added the 5 megohm resistor).


----------



## Muffinhead (Feb 5, 2018)

Got the offset and balance set. It sounds f^%#^%# amazing! I am so glad this project worked out so well. I've learned so many things along the way. I'd like to thank all of you who helped, especially @JimL11. It is one to know how to do something, it's another to be able to teach it to an amateur. I'd love some suggestions for some DIY audio projects that are actually on my level, but right now I'm going to sit down and enjoy the music. Peace


----------



## JimL11 (Feb 5, 2018)

Muffinhead said:


> Got the offset and balance set. It sounds f^%#^%# amazing! I am so glad this project worked out so well. I've learned so many things along the way. I'd like to thank all of you who helped, especially @JimL11. It is one to know how to do something, it's another to be able to teach it to an amateur. I'd love some suggestions for some DIY audio projects that are actually on my level, but right now I'm going to sit down and enjoy the music. Peace



Congratulations! So I guess you're saying it sounds better than the stock amp.  Glad you like it. Enjoy!


----------



## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> Congratulations! So I guess you're saying it sounds better than the stock amp.  Glad you like it. Enjoy!


Damn right it sounds better than stock. How did you come up with the types of MOSFETs used in this mod? Was it a lot of trial and error or just calculations?


----------



## JimL11

Kevin Gilmore has been using the 10M90S as a single device constant current source for a number of years. Walt Jung, wrote a couple articles in AudioXpress several years ago on constant current source design (they are available on the net, just Google Walt Jung and constant current source) and recommended MOSFET cascode current sources using DN2540 and 10M45S MOSFETs. I just combined the two together (the 10M45S doesn't have a high enough voltage limit for stat amp use, where it may see a voltage close to 800-900 volts with +/-400-450 volt power supplies.


----------



## JimL11 (Feb 5, 2018)

catscratch said:


> I'm not sure what the output power of the (stock) T1 is, but I'd wager it's not enough for the 007. In terms of 007 vs L700 - the 007 is on a higher level technically. A bit more resolution, bigger and more 3d soundstage, better imaging, more tactile slam to the sound and tighter, more extended bass. However the L700 is a bit more neutral in some ways - the 007 has a big dip around the presence region, 2khz to 5khz, which makes it sound a bit muffled at low to medium volumes. Combine that with the fact that without sufficient output you'll start to lose some presence at both ends of the spectrum, and you get to a point where an underdriven 007 doesn't sound very good IMO and would be a waste of money.
> 
> Basically, if you go 007, get a KGSS or similar amp. With a lesser amp, get the L700.
> 
> ...



The stock T1 is indeed marginal for the SR007 (although Ken Kessler at Hi FI News reviewed the SR007 with both the T1 and the 007t), but that has more to do with the design of the output stage than its intrinsic power. As @Muffinhead has found, the modded T1 with constant current output loads does a  significantly better job of driving the SR007, even though it has EXACTLY the same standing output current/power as the stock design.

Is it as good as a KGSSHV/KGST level amp? No, but it gets you a good part of the way there.


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## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> The stock T1 is indeed marginal for the SR007 (although Ken Kessler at Hi FI News reviewed the SR007 with both the T1 and the 007t), but that has more to do with the design of the output stage than its intrinsic power. As @Muffinhead has found, the modded T1 with constant current output loads does a  significantly better job of driving the SR007, even though it has EXACTLY the same standing output current/power as the stock design.
> 
> Is it as good as a KGSSHV/KGST level amp? No, but it gets you a good part of the way there.


I have wondered. % wise how does the modded T1 stack up against the competition?


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## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> I have wondered. % wise how does the modded T1 stack up against the competition?



There are very few modded T1's out there for comparison as far as I know. I haven't formally compared it to anything but it doesn't match a KGST or BHSE although it wasn't embarrassed by them either.


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## Sorrodje

@JimL11 and what about SRX+ vs modded SRM-T1 ?


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## astrostar59

JimL11 said:


> There are very few modded T1's out there for comparison as far as I know. I haven't formally compared it to anything but it doesn't match a KGST or BHSE although it wasn't embarrassed by them either.



I can't vouch for the old T1 modded, what / how much was it modded? But I can say my SRM-717 was WAY WAY behind the KGSShv, and later even more so v the Carbon or BHSE IMO, on both the 007s and the 009s. The SRM-007 did not seem as good as the 717 either, midrange ok, but outside of that mid band was weak and off the mark. I lost interest in Stax amps beyond that point, though admit is was on bog standard Stax amps, not modded units. Sorry, I don't want to dampened Stax amps, but if possible I would major on the KG DIY units if possible, used or from a decent builder. On the smaller Stax HPs maybe not as critical, though I have heard good things about the L700 on the Carbon.....


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## JimL11

A friend compared the modded T1 and SRX-Plus with a maxed out KGST (GRHV supply and Belleson LV regs), using SR007 MK 2.9 with port mod. He felt the T1 had a slightly U-shaped response compared to the KGST and SRX Plus. The latter two were very close with the SRX Plus sounding slightly more liquid.


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## astrostar59

Interesting info JimL11.
Have you any pics of the modded unit?

My findings on the 2 Stax amps were everything sounded thin and harsh, the bass was lumpy and slow, the treble edgy and false sounding. The 727 also clearly ran out of current mighty quick as at loud listening (not crazy, just bit louder than relaxed level) the signature changed and sounded tipped up on my 007 MK2s. So maybe the T1 modded has more current, better output stage, more of everything required to sound that much better than the later Stax amps? But if we go that modded, what not just get a KG amp and have done with it.


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## statfi

JimL11 said:


> There are very few modded T1's out there for comparison


Muffinhead, Congratulations on the successful completion of an epic journey.  I still have the T1 that my BHSE replaced in my system.  Is there a single document that describes the upgrade, should I decide to execute it?


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## Muffinhead

statfi said:


> Muffinhead, Congratulations on the successful completion of an epic journey.  I still have the T1 that my BHSE replaced in my system.  Is there a single document that describes the upgrade, should I decide to execute it?


Yes, there's an article in audioxpress that details the upgrade. You can purchase it for $10 or so. If you're not skilled at DIY like me, rhe upgrade can take a while to do. It took me a full month, but YMMV. Ask JimL11 more about it cuz it's his mod.


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## JimL11

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting info JimL11.
> Have you any pics of the modded unit?
> 
> My findings on the 2 Stax amps were everything sounded thin and harsh, the bass was lumpy and slow, the treble edgy and false sounding. The 727 also clearly ran out of current mighty quick as at loud listening (not crazy, just bit louder than relaxed level) the signature changed and sounded tipped up on my 007 MK2s. So maybe the T1 modded has more current, better output stage, more of everything required to sound that much better than the later Stax amps? But if we go that modded, what not just get a KG amp and have done with it.



The stock T1 has output resistor loads, so by Ohm's law, for every signal voltage, you have a corresponding signal current that has to go to the resistor. The mod consists of replacing the resistor loads by constant current loads. This relieves the output tubes of having to burn up signal current in the resistors, so 99+% of the current is available for the feedback resistors and the headphones. Among other things, this increases the maximum voltage drive to the same as the Stax solid state amps.

The T1 actually has less standing current than the Stax solid state amps, which also have constant current loads, but those loads are less efficient, so do burn up some signal current. With the stock 727, you are also hearing the deleterious effects of the lack of global feedback.

The KG amps have the same design constant current loads as the T1 mod, but use higher standing currents and also have regulated power supplies, so they are superior in design. A modded T1 is most similar to a KGDT without PS regulation, which is just a KGST but using 6CG7 tubes instead of 6S4A tubes. 

The primary advantage of the T1 mod is cost - a used T1 runs in the $400-700 range, and parts cost for the mod (and capacitor replacement) is around $100, plus it is easier to build than a complete DIY KG amp.  And of course a fully built KG amp is more expensive than a DIY. So if someone wants to have an SR007 based system on a budget and is willing/able to do some DIY work, a modded T1 could be the way to go.


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## JimL11

For some reason the pic didn't show up. Here it is. The constant current loads are on the aluminum heatsink, which is mounted where the output resistors used to be.


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## ahmedie

ahmedie said:


> legendary omega on auction ... 2000$ and going up!!
> https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/b294416976


auction closed at 8,000$ ... just wow


----------



## DJ The Rocket

Muffinhead said:


> . It is one to know how to do something, it's another to be able to teach it to an amateur.



My dad used to say if you can't teach it, then you don't really understand it


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## DJ The Rocket

astrostar59 said:


> I lost interest in Stax amps beyond that point, though admit is was on bog standard Stax amps, not modded units.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all or most of Mr. Gilmore's designs a mixing and matching of cloned Stax designs? I.E. the output stage from one amp, combined with the power supply from another one, etc.


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## SeaWo|f

It has gone both ways, he has taken and modified stuff that they have come up with and they have licensed things he has come up with..


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## AudioThief

I have purchased the stax 007. I was not aware if the color differences, do I thought this was a mk2,5 but my pair has champagne housing with brown pads, whicj I believe is.mk1.

Unfortunately his t1 amp was not working after the repair. Which means I need a new amp. There is a srm 1 pro, a 727 and a 313 on the domestic used market. Any of these a noticable step up from my lowly 252s, or should ai aim higher?,


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## SeaWo|f

Hey if you got a mki that's quite a price for it! I've seen them going up on the used market. Some feel that's the best version of the 007


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## JimL11 (Feb 6, 2018)

The relation between a couple of the KG and Stax designs a bit unclear to me. The 717 and KGSS schematics are pretty similar. spritzer has said that Stax licensed the KGSS for the 717, but in his article describing the KGSS, KG said that he didn't want to lay out the money for a 717, which could mean that the 717 came out first. The BHSE uses an output stage similar to the T2, but that was designed without KG ever "dissecting" a T2. Stax has never designed a successor to the T2 and has never again used the grounded grid/grounded gate output stage topology, which are used in the BHSE, Carbon and GG. The output stage constant current sources are also different from any Stax design.

Also, Stax has rarely used regulated power supplies in its designs, whereas all the KG designs use some form of regulated PS.


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## AudioThief

Stax experts - on amplification needed for the 007. 

As I've already mentioned, I am thinking about a placeholder amp until I get get a mjolnir design (out of my budget currently).

I found a list over the different output (vRMS) on the stax amps. Is this the "sole" thing to consider when getting amp for 007? I would think not, but I see the 313 and SRM 1 pro mk2 has essentially the same output. So would they be "equal" in amping the 007 ?


----------



## catscratch

In my experience, the 313 is not up to the task. Dunno about the SRM-1 Mk2. I'd look for a used 717 at minimum if it has to be a Stax-branded amp.


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## AudioThief

catscratch said:


> In my experience, the 313 is not up to the task. Dunno about the SRM-1 Mk2. I'd look for a used 717 at minimum if it has to be a Stax-branded amp.



Thanks. The availability is low on the domestic market, only 313, SRM-1 mk2 and 727 II out right now. It has to be a stax amp for now as its mainly a placeholder until I save up cash for a mjolnir design.


----------



## Allegroz

DIY fulltube stax amp.. 580v bias... very organic sounding and transparant sound...


----------



## Muffinhead

Allegroz said:


> DIY fulltube stax amp.. 580v bias... very organic sounding and transparant sound...


Who needs heating in their home when you have an amp like that? Hot damn.


----------



## wuwhere

Very nice amp.


----------



## JimL11

Allegroz said:


> DIY fulltube stax amp.. 580v bias... very organic sounding and transparant sound...



Interesting. Do you have a schematic?


----------



## wuwhere

How about an inside peek?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Socket made out of wood ?

Ali


----------



## DJ The Rocket

AudioThief said:


> It has to be a stax amp for now as its mainly a placeholder until I save up cash for a mjolnir design.



Do you currently own a good speaker amp? Why not go full placeholder and use that with a transformer, like a Woo Wee? Is there any reason that wouldn't work for the 007 for now?


----------



## AudioThief

DJ The Rocket said:


> Do you currently own a good speaker amp? Why not go full placeholder and use that with a transformer, like a Woo Wee? Is there any reason that wouldn't work for the 007 for now?



Unfortunately I do not.


----------



## AudioThief

Sorry again for double posting!

I asked my father, who is an electrical engineer, advice about amplification. He had a look at mjolnir audio and recommended me getting the DIY parts, but he said it would take quite some time to fix it, and with no guarantees on it working. But he also acknowledged that I could save a lot of money going that route.

What are peoples general thoughts on the DIY kits from mjolnir? Would a complete idiot such as I benefit from just purchasing one of the cheaper amps for my 007 or "risk" getting a KGSSV DIY kit?


----------



## SeaWo|f

Sprtizer does not sell kits.

He sells some boards and other parts he happens to have around.

There are not DIY stats amp kits that I know of.


----------



## soren_brix

AudioThief said:


> Sorry again for double posting!
> 
> I asked my father, who is an electrical engineer, advice about amplification. He had a look at mjolnir audio and recommended me getting the DIY parts, but he said it would take quite some time to fix it, and with no guarantees on it working. But he also acknowledged that I could save a lot of money going that route.
> 
> What are peoples general thoughts on the DIY kits from mjolnir? Would a complete idiot such as I benefit from just purchasing one of the cheaper amps for my 007 or "risk" getting a KGSSV DIY kit?



There are a Group Buy going on at the moment at the other site.
You can also find link's for Mouser BOM's, and get appropriate help the same place. 
Several not so experienced people have succeeded building Kevin's amps, just look through the threads over there.


----------



## JimL11

AudioThief said:


> Sorry again for double posting!
> 
> I asked my father, who is an electrical engineer, advice about amplification. He had a look at mjolnir audio and recommended me getting the DIY parts, but he said it would take quite some time to fix it, and with no guarantees on it working. But he also acknowledged that I could save a lot of money going that route.
> 
> What are peoples general thoughts on the DIY kits from mjolnir? Would a complete idiot such as I benefit from just purchasing one of the cheaper amps for my 007 or "risk" getting a KGSSV DIY kit?



The prices appear fair, but be aware that the kits are not complete - not only do you have to order many resistors, capacitors, and transistors from a BOM (list of required parts), but you have to supply your own chassis/cabinet, volume control, input jacks and output sockets, wire to connect it all together, as well has hardware to mount the circuit boards such as stand-offs, screws, nuts, etc. And of course you'll need tools such as a good soldering iron, drills, screwdrivers, etc.  And you'll have to drill the chassis to mount everything. So it really  depends on how willing you are to do DIY. There are certainly people who have completed such as project as their first DIY, but you may want to start out with a more simple project where all the parts including drilled chassis and hardware are provided so that all you have to do it solder the circuit board and mount everything, to see if you like doing that sort of thing.


----------



## AudioThief

JimL11 said:


> The prices appear fair, but be aware that the kits are not complete - not only do you have to order many resistors, capacitors, and transistors from a BOM (list of required parts), but you have to supply your own chassis/cabinet, volume control, input jacks and output sockets, wire to connect it all together, as well has hardware to mount the circuit boards such as stand-offs, screws, nuts, etc. And of course you'll need tools such as a good soldering iron, drills, screwdrivers, etc.  And you'll have to drill the chassis to mount everything. So it really  depends on how willing you are to do DIY. There are certainly people who have completed such as project as their first DIY, but you may want to start out with a more simple project where all the parts including drilled chassis and hardware are provided so that all you have to do it solder the circuit board and mount everything, to see if you like doing that sort of thing.



Maybe I should outsource the project. That sounds much harder than what I can do personally


----------



## SeaWo|f

That is a route you can take, but given the voltages that these amps run at you need to have a very competent builder. They are out there but they dont exactly run ads.


----------



## AudioThief

SeaWo|f said:


> That is a route you can take, but given the voltages that these amps run at you need to have a very competent builder. They are out there but they dont exactly run ads.



My father is an electrical engineer and a lot of his colleagues have extensive backgrounds in electrical engineering, but I have no idea how complicated it is. Basically what he said is he told me how it worked and the differences between electrostatic and normal amps, but he could not guarantee that he could make a DIY kit would work, and his main worry was actually the case/cabinet and making it look competently made and functioning nicely. 

And on top of that I guess whoever made it for me would have to be compensated so then it might be better to just buy a stax amp ???


----------



## SeaWo|f

Yea no one is likely to build you an amp free of charge.

 You could talk to people you know and see if anyone is good with case work. Then your dad can stuff the boards, get everything together and tested. But he won't have to worry about drilling tapping etc. on case.


----------



## AudioThief

SeaWo|f said:


> Yea no one is likely to build you an amp free of charge.
> 
> You could talk to people you know and see if anyone is good with case work. Then your dad can stuff the boards, get everything together and tested. But he won't have to worry about drilling tapping etc. on case.



He works with a bunch of other engineers with access to equipment, 3d printer etc maybe if I buy them some beer they will hook me up lol


----------



## Allegroz

JimL11 said:


> Interesting. Do you have a schematic?



No, I Dont... It created custom built by DIYer Home audio in my Country. Ilusion Audio. It using 2x 6L6, 4x EL84, 2x 12AX7, 1x 12AT7, 4x E88CC



Ali-Pacha said:


> Socket made out of wood ?
> 
> Ali


Yes, Custom Special built Socket


----------



## JimL11

Allegroz said:


> No, I Dont... It created custom built by DIYer Home audio in my Country. Ilusion Audio. It using 2x 6L6, 4x EL84, 2x 12AX7, 1x 12AT7, 4x E88CC
> 
> 
> Yes, Custom Special built Socket



So, are the 6L6's part of a regulated power supply, the 12AT7 used as the input tube, and the EL84's used as output tubes?


----------



## Muffinhead

AudioThief said:


> Sorry again for double posting!
> 
> I asked my father, who is an electrical engineer, advice about amplification. He had a look at mjolnir audio and recommended me getting the DIY parts, but he said it would take quite some time to fix it, and with no guarantees on it working. But he also acknowledged that I could save a lot of money going that route.
> 
> What are peoples general thoughts on the DIY kits from mjolnir? Would a complete idiot such as I benefit from just purchasing one of the cheaper amps for my 007 or "risk" getting a KGSSV DIY kit?


Get a placeholder amp as has been suggested, or just splurge on a mega-top of the line-silver wires-unobtanium coated amp. You seem to be heading toward the latter, so I'd say if you can afford it do it. DIY's a whole nother realm of not just money but also time.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

AudioThief said:


> he could not guarantee that he could make a DIY kit would work, and his main worry was actually the case/cabinet and making it look competently made and functioning nicely.



IME getting it to work isn't a problem, if you're organized and reasonably careful (for example, double checking before soldering anything, following proper ESD prevention procedure, etc.).

I too was intimidated by the prospect of making things look nice as well as function, and not too surprisingly, my first attempt wasn't particularly impressive. But it was easier than I thought, and mistakes in this arena are easy to identify and learn from. 

I don't think you'll regret trying yourself, but I don't know you and I don't want to push you into doing something you have a good reason not to try. But IME, not trying, and just buying from someone else, has been a source of regret for me. And you're not without resources if something does go wrong, far moreso than most of us it seems.


----------



## AudioThief

SeaWo|f said:


> If you know you want a new amp later then without question I vote for the better transducer -sr007



SR 007 mk1 are in the house and I thank you very much for this advice, as it swayed me towards purchasing these. 

I am in heaven through 252s


----------



## SeaWo|f

If you're very happy now save and get a kg amp when you can


----------



## Muffinhead

I have a question about preamps. Is there any reason why I would want to use an amp with preamp outs (Lyr 2) with another amp (the T1)? I've heard it just adds more tube flavor to the sound, but IDK for sure. Also, what is the use for the parallel RCA's on the T1?


----------



## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> I have a question about preamps. Is there any reason why I would want to use an amp with preamp outs (Lyr 2) with another amp (the T1)? I've heard it just adds more tube flavor to the sound, but IDK for sure. Also, what is the use for the parallel RCA's on the T1?



The only reason to use a preamp is if you like the sound of the two together better than the T1 by itself, or for convenience, e.g. if you have different sources that you select with the Lyr2, and you want to select those different inputs for the T1 and you don't want to be plugging and unplugging cables. 

The parallel RCAs on the T1 are a loop-out. In other words, an input signal goes into the T1 through one set of RCAs and out through the other set. The output signal is there regardless of whether the T1 is on or off. So if you have a cable going from source to preamp, or preamp to amp, you can splice in the T1 with another set of cables.

So for example, if you splice in the T1 between a source and the Lyr2, then you can listen to that source by the T1, or leave the T1 off, and listen to it through the Lyr2 and onto the speaker amp and speaker.

OTOH, if you splice in the Lyr2 and the speaker amp, you can select any source going to the Lyr2 and listen to it with the T1, or leave the T1 off and listen to the speaker amp and speaker.


----------



## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> The only reason to use a preamp is if you like the sound of the two together better than the T1 by itself, or for convenience, e.g. if you have different sources that you select with the Lyr2, and you want to select those different inputs for the T1 and you don't want to be plugging and unplugging cables.
> 
> The parallel RCAs on the T1 are a loop-out. In other words, an input signal goes into the T1 through one set of RCAs and out through the other set. The output signal is there regardless of whether the T1 is on or off. So if you have a cable going from source to preamp, or preamp to amp, you can splice in the T1 with another set of cables.
> 
> ...


Thanks for clarifying that. I never was really sure what preamps were for. I tried it out with the two amps and it got real fuzzy real fast. I could try tube rolling the Lyr to see if it makes it better, who knows what can happen. Can messing around with the balance between the volumes of the two amps yield a sweet spot of audio nirvana or is there some tried and true rule like preamp at 100% and power amp at a variable volume?


----------



## SeaWo|f

Preamps typically are for use with power amps. Since you have a lyr look at the vidar on schiits page, no volume control or anything. 

There are those who use them for various reason with a second amp in the headphone world. Also your lyr is not a preamp.

This may be over simplifying.


----------



## Muffinhead

SeaWo|f said:


> Preamps typically are for use with power amps. Since you have a lyr look at the vidar on schiits page, no volume control or anything.
> 
> There are those who use them for various reason with a second amp in the headphone world. Also your lyr is not a preamp.
> 
> This may be over simplifying.


OK, I see now. So basically a preamp is a glorified control box with volume


----------



## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> OK, I see now. So basically a preamp is a glorified control box with volume



Whoops, I was thinking the Lyr2 was a preamp because that is what you said you were asking about, but it's not. It's a headphone amp for non-electrostatic headphones.  Something like the Saga is a preamp. My comments are for using a Saga or something like that, NOT for using a Lyr2. Using a Lyr2 into a T1 is using two headphone amps in a row. You should only use one headphone amp at a time.


----------



## thinker

At some point i will report something of the new Canorum/Phenomenon V3 headphone.Completely new drivers and almost everything has changed including pads
















Last edited: Today at 9:10 AM


----------



## Pokemonn (Feb 9, 2018)

I just recieved Schiit Loki Mini EQer today. WOW simply put Shiit Loki Mini EQer is THE SAVIOR FOR STAX!
Schiit Loki Mini is ULTRA transparent and sounds Great! and has good intuitive User Interface. I can clearly hear upstream gear my Luxman DA-200(2700$MSRP) DAC's warmth/tubuy/analogue/yummy sounds. when i switched to cheap Mojo, system sounds slight plasticky/non-organic/but acculate. you can clearly hear DAC diffrences via Loki unlike poor sounding digital AD-DA EQers.
and i have middle aged hearing loss of treble. it completly GONE! now I can hear music like teeneger and sounds ULTRA HIFI. its difference is something like between MONO and STEREO. not joke at all.

my setup:
iMac > Luxman DA-200 DAC > Schiit Loki Mini EQer > Stax SRM-717 > SR-007mk1 early version/009

this combo sounds completly fuller bass/punchy/dynamic/tuby/euphonic/yummy/smooth/crispy/hi-fi AT THE SAME TIME! and killed Luxman p-700u(6000$msrp) amped HD800!

Schiit Loki Mini = HIGHLY RECOMMENDED! ITS absolute MUST TO TRY! ITS SAVIOR FOR STAX USERS.

http://www.schiit.com/products/loki
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-audio-loki-mini-four-band-equalizer-head-fi-tv.861331/

EDIT: if you live in japan. you must need the Sound House(Narita city's pro audio gear shop)'s AC 100V input/AC16V output wall wart. its dirt cheap. please no worry. Stock AC115V input wall wart may doent work in japan(it will humming).
EDIT2: WOW Loki Mini really works for 007 and 009 BOTH! I am deeply shocked!


----------



## Muffinhead

JimL11 said:


> Whoops, I was thinking the Lyr2 was a preamp because that is what you said you were asking about, but it's not. It's a headphone amp for non-electrostatic headphones.  Something like the Saga is a preamp. My comments are for using a Saga or something like that, NOT for using a Lyr2. Using a Lyr2 into a T1 is using two headphone amps in a row. You should only use one headphone amp at a time.


Schiit says the Lyr 2 has preamp outputs for speakers. Am I missing some difference between powered speakers and a headphone+amp combo?


----------



## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> Schiit says the Lyr 2 has preamp outputs for speakers. Am I missing some difference between powered speakers and a headphone+amp combo?



The Lyr 2 has one set of RCA inputs and one set of RCA outputs, so if you plug cables into the outputs you can send the signal to a speaker amp and speakers, however it doesn't have any selection facilities like most preamps. So it would work as a preamp if you only had one source and your power amp didn't have an accessible volume control, but otherwise there is no benefit in using it as a preamp.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Feb 9, 2018)

Pokemonn said:


> I just recieved Schiit Loki Mini EQer today. WOW simply put Shiit Loki Mini EQer is THE SAVIOR FOR STAX!
> Schiit Loki Mini is ULTRA transparent and sounds Great! and has good intuitive User Interface. I can clearly hear upstream gear my Luxman DA-200(2700$MSRP) DAC's warmth/tubuy/analogue/yummy sounds. when i switched to cheap Mojo, system sounds slight plasticky/non-organic/but acculate. you can clearly hear DAC diffrences via Loki unlike poor sounding digital AD-DA EQers.
> and i have middle aged hearing loss of treble. it completly GONE! now I can hear music like teeneger and sounds ULTRA HIFI. its difference is something like between MONO and STEREO. not joke at all.
> 
> ...




I do like that little EQ. Use the Loki in my system mainly because want some increased bass level....ESP9500 really needs more bass output for my taste... sounds just right with the 20Hz knob up to around 3:00 and the 400Hz slightly down - doesn't negatively affect the mids or highs. Will definitely be using it for the SR-L300 Limited as well once it arrives (after I get familiar with its sound.) Nice to have the bypass switch too, because the TH-X00 doesn't need low end enhancement at all...flip the bypass switch for the TH-X00s and then flip back to EQ for use with ESP950, HD700, etc...


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## Pokemonn (Feb 9, 2018)

VRacer-111 said:


> I do like that little EQ. Use the Loki in my system mainly because want some increased bass level....ESP9500 really needs more bass output for my taste... sounds just right with the 20Hz knob up to around 3:00 and the 400Hz slightly down - doesn't negatively affect the mids or highs. Will definitely be using it for the SR-L300 Limited as well once it arrives (after I get familiar with its sound.) Nice to have the bypass switch too, because the TH-X00 doesn't need low end enhancement at all...flip the bypass switch for the TH-X00s and then flip back to EQ for use with ESP950, HD700, etc...



Nice rigs you have there! I agree with you. estat needs bass enhancement for my preference too.
btw you can use 2khz knob to soften the sound. just rotate to left a bit to make sound soft. Humans perceive 2khz as hardnness of the sound. you can tweak hardness/softness of the headphone sound with Loki Mini too.
Maybe Schiit Loki Mini is Biggest and Greatest product ever roam on the planet for STAX!
Now I am very convinced with that estats can survive in the headphone industry! Wow!


----------



## AudioThief

OK friends, this will be the last time I whine about this, I don't want to hog the thread, BUT:

ANY impressions on the following amps with the SR-007 MK1 is very much appreciated:

727II
007tii
SRM 1 mk2 pro

I can get the srm 1 considerably cheaper than the other two. I have done some research, and my impressions are:

Spritzer aka Stax God seems to think 727 is considerably better than 007 but needs feedback mod. Headphoneer reviewers enjoyed the 007tii more. Kenrockwell, whoever that is, recommended SRM 1 mk2 pro. 

THIS IS AS PLACEHOLDER AMP UNTIL I CAN AFFORD A KGSSHV OR SIMILAR. NO NEED TO TELL ME TO GET A THIRD PARTY AMP


----------



## paradoxper

Not sure if it's sold, but you should jump at the opportunity.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kgss-dx-amplifier-for-sale.870890/


----------



## oneguy

AudioThief said:


> OK friends, this will be the last time I whine about this, I don't want to hog the thread, BUT:
> 
> ANY impressions on the following amps with the SR-007 MK1 is very much appreciated:
> 
> ...



I demoed the 727II and the 007ta. I preferred the 007ta so that’s what I bought. No experience with the SRM- mk2 Pro though. I demoed the above amps through the 007, 009, L700 (which I now own) and L500.


----------



## AudioThief

oneguy said:


> I demoed the 727II and the 007ta. I preferred the 007ta so that’s what I bought. No experience with the SRM- mk2 Pro though. I demoed the above amps through the 007, 009, L700 (which I now own) and L500.



Thank you very much. Did you note any specific differences?


----------



## oneguy

AudioThief said:


> Thank you very much. Did you note any specific differences?



It’s been a while but from what I can recall the presentation of the 007ta seemed more natural and the instruments had better integration. I only gave the 727 about a minute per headphone and my personal stance is if it causes a frown on my face immediately it doesn’t get to many more chances. I gave it a chance with 4 different headphones and the frown existed for all 4. If it’s tolerable I’ll go for longer but the 727 wasn’t my cup of tea at all.


----------



## Pokemonn (Feb 10, 2018)

I am listening to modified 727 now. i found 727 lacks authority and weight. it sounds slightly bright and hard and light..
I personally recomend to buy used SRM-717 for temporally use. Its one of the best stax amp stax mafias recommended. it sounds dark and better authority to sounds.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Some one correct me if I am wrong but I thought the srm-006ts was basically an evolution on the srm-t1. If JimLs mod is applicable to that, it is a cheaper amp that the 727 and 007t. And people seem to really like the modified t1. 

That might be a cost effective option.


----------



## kevin gilmore

srm006t and srm-t1 are virtually identical. layout is different so you probably have to split the heatsinks into two pieces for the 006t.


----------



## JimL11 (Feb 10, 2018)

SeaWo|f said:


> Some one correct me if I am wrong but I thought the srm-006ts was basically an evolution on the srm-t1. If JimLs mod is applicable to that, it is a cheaper amp that the 727 and 007t. And people seem to really like the modified t1.
> 
> That might be a cost effective option.



AFAIK you are correct. The first 006 version has both normal and pro bias sockets, so is preferable for those who have old normal bias phones. The most recent 006 version has only pro bias sockets. I haven't actually seen the inside of an 006 but the photos posted on the internet appear to show a layout similar to the T1.


----------



## Muffinhead

Alright Stax mafia: modded T1 vs every other common amp stax has produced driving sr007. Who wins?


----------



## Pokemonn

maybe tube amp will win...


----------



## wuwhere

Pokemonn said:


> I am listening to modified 727 now. i found 727 lacks authority and weight. it sounds slightly bright and hard and light..
> I personally recomend to buy used SRM-717 for temporally use. Its one of the best stax amp stax mafias recommended. it sounds dark and better authority to sounds.



+1, 717 is a very good stopgap amp for 007Mk1. If there are no KG amps I would be satisfied with this amp. Fortunately there are many KG amps to choose from. Let your wallet be your guide.


----------



## AudioThief

Still wondering where srm 1 mk2 stands in regard to placeholder amp for 007. They can be had significantly cheaper thsn 727/007ii


----------



## kevin gilmore

Muffinhead said:


> Alright Stax mafia: modded T1 vs every other common amp stax has produced driving sr007. Who wins?




T2


----------



## joseph69

Today I listened to a SR-X MK3 Pro via my Stax system...damn!!!


----------



## ESL-1 (Feb 11, 2018)

They really are quite special, very natural and real, great timbre accuracy.  Does lack a spacious sound stage but everything else impresses.  Not bad for a close to 40 year old design.


----------



## joseph69

ESL-1 said:


> They really are quite special, very natural and real, great timber accuracy.  Does lack a spacious sound stage but everything else impresses.  Not bad for a close to 40 year old design.


A very impressive headphone to say the least!


----------



## padam (Feb 11, 2018)

Very good headphones, quick and also precise like a razor with great deep bass, I rate them highly.
But overall speaking the SR-Lambdas still beat them in terms of sound imho (similar timbre accuracy almost as deep bass, but smoother and much more airy, not as forward or shouty) and the comfort is incomparably better.


----------



## joseph69

padam said:


> Very good headphones, quick and also precise like a razor with great deep bass, I rate them highly.
> But overall speaking the SR-Lambdas still beat them in terms of sound imho (similar timbre accuracy almost as deep bass, but smoother and much more airy, not as forward or shouty) and the comfort is incomparably better.


I'm. to familiar with the SR-Lambdas you've mentioned. Are these currently in production? Thanks.


----------



## ESL-1

padam said:


> Very good headphones, quick and also precise like a razor with great deep bass, I rate them highly.
> But overall speaking the SR-Lambdas still beat them in terms of sound imho (similar timbre accuracy almost as deep bass, but smoother and much more airy, not as forward or shouty) and the comfort is incomparably better.



I too very much like my SR-Lambda, excellent attributes as you point out.  I know you know your Stax but here is where personal preference plays it's part as I put my Lambda just behind the SR-Xmk3 Pro.  Nonetheless both are quite superb and prove that "Oldies can be Goodies" in this hobby.


----------



## ESL-1 (Feb 11, 2018)

joseph69 said:


> I'm. to familiar with the SR-Lambdas you've mentioned. Are these currently in production? Thanks.



Sorry to say Joseph that specific model is long gone from the new market.  Of the current Stax the latest Lambda model would be the SR-507 unless they have snuck in something newer without me knowing about it.  I have the one step below SR-407 Signature along with a SR-Lambda.

That said you do occasionally see the SR-Lambda for sale on the used market, usually nicely priced.


----------



## Muffinhead

Do you guys EQ your stax? if so, what do you use? Would a simple rackmounted EQ like this work? https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FBQ800
Or would an audiophile specific eq be better?


----------



## Pokemonn (Feb 12, 2018)

I own a FBQ800, but its very easy to broken. and sound not good for me at all.
Schiit Loki Mini is THE BEST for me so far! its ULTRA HIFI and ULTRA transparent and ULTRA dynamic/punchy! its safest and strongest legal sonic heroin!!!lol mimic Fostex TH900 bass curve and then play some EDMs.Boom! I just decided to sell all dynamic driver headphones gears! no joke!
its literaly sound like amp connected to brain neurons! I can not imagine better sound than this! (PS i have heard Senn HE-1, you know what i mean! just buy Loki!)
EDIT: no i cant sell dynamic driver amps. i want to try focal clear and HD820 and LCDs etc etc Lol


----------



## micon

I in my 007  sz3  replaced the cable by 925s. set the task to reduce the LF. It happened, not much, but it became more comfortable for me. But I was very surprised, the replacement for silver, I also added a width of the scene, super.


----------



## micon

micon said:


> I in it 007 substituted a cable by 925s. Set a task to decrease bass. it happened, not so much, but became more comfortable me. But I was very surprised, substituting a cable by silvered, for me the width of the stage was also added, super.


----------



## arnaud

@Pokemonn 's enthusiastic feedback about eqing the SR009 got me curious so I played a bit with peq today.

I made approximate changes, trying to keep the slopes gentle and, surprisingly, I don't feel I have lost any transparency. It gives the 009 much more kick and took the slight edge off upper mids.

This is so much easier than looking for a new headphone 




 

 

cheers,
arnaud


----------



## Pokemonn (Feb 11, 2018)

Hello arnaud-san yes! DEQ2496 digital in/out is very tranceparent.  I personally recommend to use DEQ2496's AES/EBU in/out with 3pin XLR to RCA exchanger. you can buy them at amazon etc. not expensive.
it accutually accept RCA COAX SPDIF in/out. if my memory correct its best way to get original least-jitter data to get in/out to DEQ2496. its sound most natural sound with DEQ2496 in my experience.(I used to test it with Denon middle class SACDP coax out)
Optical in/out has some jitter. it may sound bright/grainy. also DEQ2496's optical in/out connector socket are very very weak.its very easy to broken. so i recommend to use COAX.
I have read a local SR-009 users blog. he used -4dB@1kHz adjustment. its sound very natural when i tried.
and i recommend to try some treble EQing. its depend on arnuud-san's hearing loss level. age etc etc factors. its little bit difficult to calculate it since i am not an ear doctor...lol...
In my case, I just needed +6-10db boost over 1khz to 10khz.  i can't hear over 12Khz sadly.


----------



## arnaud

Thank you @Pokemonn , 
yes I am using AES/EBU (the DEQ296 is sitting between SU-1 D/D and my Holo L1 DAC which is fed I2S otherwise).
arnaud


----------



## arnaud

It's always easy to get overboard with these eqs, I have already eased off a bit on the bass boost


----------



## VRacer-111

Pokemonn said:


> Hello arnaud-san yes! DEQ2496 digital in/out is very tranceparent.  I personally recommend to use DEQ2496's AES/EBU in/out with 3pin XLR to RCA exchanger. you can buy them at amazon etc. not expensive.
> it accutually accept RCA COAX SPDIF in/out. if my memory correct its best way to get original least-jitter data to get in/out to DEQ2496. its sound most natural sound with DEQ2496 in my experience.(I used to test it with Denon middle class SACDP coax out)
> Optical in/out has some jitter. it may sound bright/grainy. also DEQ2496's optical in/out connector socket are very very weak.its very easy to broken. so i recommend to use COAX.
> I have read a local SR-009 users blog. he used -4dB@1kHz adjustment. its sound very natural when i tried.
> ...



How does the DEQ2496 compare to the Schiit Loki mini, from a transparency perspective?


----------



## Pokemonn (Feb 12, 2018)

VRacer-111 said:


> How does the DEQ2496 compare to the Schiit Loki mini, from a transparency perspective?


I have not have a answer it since i have not bought good USB-COAX DD converter yet. maybe I will buy Schiit Audio Eter DD converter to test it. but i can say that Schiit Loki Mini has Strong Euphonic sound signature! at least. this is the reason why i think loki Mini is the savior for STAX!
anyway I slightly feel Schiit Loki mini sound better? maybe since i dont prefer digital stuff? I dont know well about the answer yet.
but Schiit Loki mini sounds Extremly good! with my SR-007 mk1. and pro is its lot cheaper than DEQ2496. and DEQ2496's con is it can't do DSD and over 96khz hi-rez stuff.(I personally dont do hi-rez stuff. another con of DEQ2496 is when if you boost bass/treble few db, you need to reduce pre-gain to avoid clip. weird thing is reducing gain may not sound good. its slightly lose dynamics i feel. Schiit Loki Mini doesnt have this issue. since its analog EQer.


----------



## bmichels

*New portable Pocket Amp from STAX !*  This is a good and big surprise !

 


I wonder *how it will compeat against my KingSound M-03 which sound Very good with my SR009,* and also can act as a battery vault for recharging my DAP, but, as opposed to the STAX SRM-D10, the KingSound do NOT includes a DAC, it is only anAmp (which is not a bad thing if you already have a TOL DAP).


----------



## Pokemonn (Feb 12, 2018)

its good news! SRM-D10 battery powered dac/amp can avoid AC main power RF noise issue which is awful in urban area nowadays.


----------



## AudioThief

For anyone wondering how the sr 007 does on the 252, it gets very quickly hard and screechy up top, congested and incoherent once you try listening toto satisfying volume levels.


----------



## misooooo

A heads up on the L300 limited, they reduced the price to $720. I contacted them and they refunded the difference.


----------



## TypodCrowd

bmichels said:


> *New portable Pocket Amp from STAX !*  This is a good and big surprise !



I'm excited for this, but incredibly skeptical. 

From a technical prespective - it takes a lot (A LOT meaning ~500V) to proeprly drive electrostatics, and from all my research, it's next to impossible to cram decent performance into something even the size of the SRM-300, let alone the 252s. I'm concerned that this will underperform for decently-versed Stax listeners. What scares me a little more is that this might demean the quality we've come to expect from elctrostatic headphones, especially for newcomers to the Stax market. I do see myself purchasing one though to get a feel for how it sounds, and what exactly it's doing.

What I was truly hoping for from Stax this release cycle was better coverage of their amp size tiers (between the 252s and the 353x for example) for some true beefy power. I'm gonna name drop KG here for a design request because I've looked at schematics for everything from the AURDIX to the eXStatA and haven't really seen anything promising between those two chassis sizes besides something like the KGSS Carbon Mini. If only there was some way to make these amps lighter and smaller


----------



## VRacer-111

TypodCrowd said:


> I'm excited for this, but incredibly skeptical.
> 
> From a technical prespective - it takes a lot (A LOT meaning ~500V) to proeprly drive electrostatics, and from all my research, it's next to impossible to cram decent performance into something even the size of the SRM-300, let alone the 252s. I'm concerned that this will underperform for decently-versed Stax listeners. What scares me a little more is that this might demean the quality we've come to expect from elctrostatic headphones, especially for newcomers to the Stax market. I do see myself purchasing one though to get a feel for how it sounds, and what exactly it's doing.
> 
> What I was truly hoping for from Stax this release cycle was better coverage of their amp size tiers (between the 252s and the 353x for example) for some true beefy power. I'm gonna name drop KG here for a design request because I've looked at schematics for everything from the AURDIX to the eXStatA and haven't really seen anything promising between those two chassis sizes besides something like the KGSS Carbon Mini. If only there was some way to make these amps lighter and smaller



Something like this?


----------



## AudioThief

Stax enthusiasts, I have a question regarding SRM 252 amplifier.

Something I started noticing when driving the 007 mk1 through the 252 was as previously mentioned hardness/harshness in higher frequency (piano especially obvious). Now I have put the 007 to storage while I wait for my new amp and rather using the L300s. And the L300s sound is way less deteriorated through the 252, but on certain tracks (again, pianos especially) get a nasty harsh/hard sound to them. This is especially noticeable when the volume knob starts approaching 11/12 on the amplifier. 

Does anyone have similar experiences with this amp?


----------



## Tinkerer

I've found the 252 with a good external power supply is just fine on the 007 Mk I's if you aren't blaring the sound. Even a 1.5A 12VDC regulated wall wart with a polarity adapter will greatly improve the sound. And I say that as a guy running my 007's on a carbon right now. The little amps are vastly underrated if you only listen about 70-80db with some minor upgrades.


----------



## Pokemonn (Feb 12, 2018)

I agree. All people on the planet are not serious audiophile.
when sony walkman was introduced, people were so skeptical.


----------



## TypodCrowd

VRacer-111 said:


> Something like this?



Yes, this is the mini version of the KGSS Carbon I believe. Just wish there were more options on the market is all.


----------



## TypodCrowd

Tinkerer said:


> I've found the 252 with a good external power supply is just fine on the 007 Mk I's if you aren't blaring the sound. Even a 1.5A 12VDC regulated wall wart with a polarity adapter will greatly improve the sound. And I say that as a guy running my 007's on a carbon right now. The little amps are vastly underrated if you only listen about 70-80db with some minor upgrades.



I'm currently running my 252s off of the stock power supply. Can you link/picture yours? This would be a simple mod for me to do. I've currently replaced some caps, etc. but outside of that havent done anything major to it. I'm contemplating the mods outlined here, but I'm unsude if it's really worth my time compared to something like the KGSS mini pictured in the previous comments.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/srm252mod.546221/page-2#post-9055071


----------



## Tinkerer

I built a Kevin Gilmore Golden Reference Low Voltage PSU. It's the box on the left side. You only need the positive rail really, but this was a spare parts build for me so I went whole hog. Even the wires for the transformer are a long mess because I didn't want to cut them down in case I wanted to use it for something else later.






A little 1.5A 12VDC regulated wall wart off an old external hard drive or computer router will do most of the same job though. Just gotta make sure the polarity is right as the Japanese standard is inverse to the USA/global one. but anything over the unregulated standard brick is a big improvement.


----------



## VRacer-111

TypodCrowd said:


> Yes, this is the mini version of the KGSS Carbon I believe. Just wish there were more options on the market is all.



That one is about half the size of a KGSS mini though...


----------



## TypodCrowd

Tinkerer said:


> I built a Kevin Gilmore Golden Reference Low Voltage PSU. It's the box on the left side. You only need the positive rail really, but this was a spare parts build for me so I went whole hog. Even the wires for the transformer are a long mess because I didn't want to cut them down in case I wanted to use it for something else later.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're telling me the little stax wallwart is a switching supply (i.e. it's not regulated)?? You're **** me - that can't be right...

In any case, I must test this theory. Into the junk electronics bag we go!


----------



## TypodCrowd

VRacer-111 said:


> That one is about half the size of a KGSS mini though...



I looked at the site - this is the anniversary edition you're speaking of, right? I think it might be a good fit for me, however, I'd love to have something new introduced, or maybe an old design brought back and minified just like Birgir did for this one.

I'm also interested in this cute little tube amp (if any one has more info please PLEASE gimme. I can't find info on this anywhere besides the little blip on the Mjolinr Audio site:




"t also means we invest time to build something silly like the one above.  That is a full blown tube amplifier with a non switching power supply that sits comfortable in my palm."


----------



## Tinkerer

TypodCrowd said:


> You're telling me the little stax wallwart is a switching supply (i.e. it's not regulated)?? You're ****ting me - that can't be right...
> 
> In any case, I must test this theory. Into the junk electronics bag we go!



Mine sure is. It's like +18VDC unloaded. Just be extra sure on the polarity thing though for the replacement. Outside of the barrel should be hot and center pin ground, backwards from US standard. Otherwise you'll blow the amp.


----------



## rpeebles

bmichels said:


> *New portable Pocket Amp from STAX !*  This is a good and big surprise !
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you for the info. I am using the KS M-03 Amp and the KS-H4. Using an Iphone 7 as the source. Find that it sounds in terms of volume low, but clear. Is the I-phone the limitation ? What should I change/incorporate ? Can the KS M-03 really handle the Stax - SR 009 ? Thanks and regards.


----------



## TypodCrowd

Tinkerer said:


> Mine sure is. It's like +18VDC unloaded. Just be extra sure on the polarity thing though for the replacement. Outside of the barrel should be hot and center pin ground, backwards from US standard. Otherwise you'll blow the amp.



Damn, alright here's to finding something. Is my understanding correct here:

LPS (Linear power supply) is synonymous to Regulated Power supply?


----------



## TypodCrowd

rpeebles said:


> Thank you for the info. I am using the KS M-03 Amp and the KS-H4. Using an Iphone 7 as the source. Find that it sounds in terms of volume low, but clear. Is the I-phone the limitation ? What should I change/incorporate ? Can the KS M-03 really handle the Stax - SR 009 ? Thanks and regards.



If you're cranking your phone to max then yes, this is most likely a phone volume level issue. The ideal solution would be to get a portable DAC that has a line level output (which is definitely going to be louder than your phone's output) and run that into the M-03.

I have some dacs I can reccomend but I'd rather you do some digging online (perchance look at this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Zeos/comments/66xylk/guide_dac_amp_combo_units/)
A DAC/Amp will probably be the most versatile so you can use it with regular headphones too. I just want to avoid turning this thread into a DAC shootout.


----------



## Tinkerer

TypodCrowd said:


> Damn, alright here's to finding something. Is my understanding correct here:
> 
> LPS (Linear power supply) is synonymous to Regulated Power supply?



Regulated power supplies can be switching or linear. A regulated wall wart will likely be switching due to the small size.

Regulated just means you get the same voltage no matter the power draw. Unregulated depends on the power draw for the right output voltage.


----------



## TypodCrowd

Tinkerer said:


> Regulated power supplies can be switching or linear. A regulated wall wart will likely be switching due to the small size.
> 
> Regulated just means you get the same voltage no matter the power draw. Unregulated depends on the power draw for the right output voltage.



Ah I see - I was talking to KG and he was saying that the Stax amp should be fed with a linear power supply - And idea on how much of a difference I'd hear between a regulated and a linear regulated PSU?

Also, any chance you can share some info on your 212 amp mods?


----------



## Tinkerer

Something like the GRLV is linear. And it's tops. But like I said, replacing the original wall wart with anything regulated with enough current overhead will make you go "Whoah, didn't know that little thing could sound like that that". The amp pulls about .4 Amps so anything regulated and rated about triple that is great. Like the one I tested was the Ktech that came off my old WD Mybook drive. Like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ktec-KSAS0...ER-80BH-For-external-Hard-Drive-/271126543302 I made a little polarity adapter and instant global voltage compatible amp with upgraded sound.

Amp itself is vanilla. I just open the volume pot all the way to open and control the volume from upstream. GRLV is definitely the best sound but the main wow jump is just from the standard unregulated brick to literally anything else.


----------



## AudioThief

Tinkerer said:


> Something like the GRLV is linear. And it's tops. But like I said, replacing the original wall wart with anything regulated with enough current overhead will make you go "Whoah, didn't know that little thing could sound like that that". The amp pulls about .4 Amps so anything regulated and rated about triple that is great. Like the one I tested was the Ktech that came off my old WD Mybook drive. Like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ktec-KSAS0...ER-80BH-For-external-Hard-Drive-/271126543302 I made a little polarity adapter and instant global voltage compatible amp with upgraded sound.
> 
> Amp itself is vanilla. I just open the volume pot all the way to open and control the volume from upstream. GRLV is definitely the best sound but the main wow jump is just from the standard unregulated brick to literally anything else.



are you telling me I can go to the hardware store and pick up another wall wart and I will improve the sound?


----------



## Tinkerer

Yes. Except you probably don't even have to do that. You probably have one laying around. 12VDC is super common for any computer stuff and being sensitive to voltage levels is usually regulated. Even my monitor has a 12 volt external brick.


----------



## SeaWo|f

TypodCrowd said:


> Yes, this is the mini version of the KGSS Carbon I believe. Just wish there were more options on the market is all.



It's a standard kgss, not a kgsshv or carbon.


----------



## bmichels

rpeebles said:


> Thank you for the info. I am using the KS M-03 Amp and the KS-H4. Using an Iphone 7 as the source. Find that it sounds in terms of volume low, but clear. Is the I-phone the limitation ? What should I change/incorporate ? Can the KS M-03 really handle the Stax - SR 009 ? Thanks and regards.



Yes, the M-03 can really drive the SR009 to a surprising level of quality and volume.  Quite a good Amp !


----------



## rpeebles

bmichels said:


> Yes, the M-03 can really drive the SR009 to a surprising level of quality and volume.  Quite a good Amp !


Thank You, very informative and useful. Any few of that list which you would specially recomend ? Thanks !
Best regards


----------



## bmichels

rpeebles said:


> Any few of that list which you would specially recomend ?



?? what list ? how can I help ?


----------



## rpeebles

TypodCrowd said:


> If you're cranking your phone to max then yes, this is most likely a phone volume level issue. The ideal solution would be to get a portable DAC that has a line level output (which is definitely going to be louder than your phone's output) and run that into the M-03.
> 
> I have some dacs I can reccomend but I'd rather you do some digging online (perchance look at this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Zeos/comments/66xylk/guide_dac_amp_combo_units/)
> A DAC/Amp will probably be the most versatile so you can use it with regular headphones too. I just want to avoid turning this thread into a DAC shootout.



Any few of that list which you would specially recomend ?


----------



## rpeebles

bmichels said:


> ?? what list ? how can I help ?


Thank you...I meant this list: https://www.reddit.com/r/Zeos/comments/66xylk/guide_dac_amp_combo_units/   which 

TypodCrowd kindly mentioned

Which portable Amp+Dac would you recommend. I want to get higher volume from a Iphone 7+King Sound  M-03 Amp and the KS-H4 Headphones. Good quality but low volume.

Thanks and best regards.
Robert


----------



## bmichels

rpeebles said:


> Any few of that list which you would specially recomend ?



the only one I heard or owned are the Mojo and Woo WA8.  And I can recommend booth.


----------



## rpeebles

bmichels said:


> the only one I heard or owned are the Mojo and Woo WA8.  And I can recommend booth.



Thank You !


----------



## TypodCrowd

rpeebles said:


> Any few of that list which you would specially recomend ?



I've had experience with the Odac/O2 combo, most of the fiio line, the Nuforce combos. It depends on your price range and your approach to audio.

I myself am a reference lover (I want my source and amp to be "perfect" (flat EQ, low distortion, no fancy crossfeed stuff) and then my load (headphones) to color the sound as I please.

For reference audio, the price to performance ratio of the Odac/O2 combo is to die for. It's awesome and a very good entry/mid level combo. I still own one today (though maybe not for long so if you're interested, let me know  ). It's not the most portable (dac is usb powered so it'll drain your phone, and the amp can only be better powered if you have the dac in a separate chassis), but it's amazing to use on campus for me for example. It's audibly very VERY close to studio reference gear, so I absolutely love it.

The NuForce dac amp is a little noisy, but is a really nice slightly V shaped combo. Again, no battery, but great volume. This one can be all USB powered. Really good if you have not-so-sensitive IEM's. Don't know how it would do with the stax.

The Fiio e17k is really cool to me. Lots of features, and I got one for 99cad about a year ago off the local classifieds. Cool bass boost (I've heard better but it's pretty good). Good volume, again a slight bit of noise on really sensitive stuff but overall a good experience. Treble boost was useless to me, but that's a personal qualm.

If you're willing to spend a little more money, I'd say pick one of the trifecta:

Bass/warm tilt: Chord Mojo
Neutral/reference grade: LH Labs GO2PRO/GOV2+
Treble tilt: ifi Micro iDSD Black Label

If you want more info on this stuff and some more suggestions please do PM me. I'd like to avoid derailing this topic into general DAC talk.


----------



## Pokemonn (Feb 13, 2018)

[QUOTE="TypodCrowd, post: 14040776, member: 481126"

*I myself am a reference lover* (I want my source and amp to be "perfect" (flat EQ, low distortion, no fancy crossfeed stuff) and then my load (headphones) to color the sound as I please.

For reference audio, the price to performance ratio of the Odac/O2 combo is to die for. It's awesome and a very good entry/mid level combo. I still own one today (though maybe not for long so if you're interested, let me know  ). It's not the most portable (dac is usb powered so it'll drain your phone, and the amp can only be better powered if you have the dac in a separate chassis), but it's amazing to use on campus for me for example. It's audibly very VERY close to studio reference gear, so I absolutely love it.

If you're willing to spend a little more money, I'd say pick one of the trifecta:

Bass/warm tilt: Chord Mojo
Neutral/reference grade: LH Labs GO2PRO/GOV2+
Treble tilt: ifi Micro iDSD Black Label
[/QUOTE]

sorry, such a refernce thing never happned on the earth. any gear has colors and sounds diffrent.
as KG said, "there is no such a thing as normal".
and ANY headphone are already phisically EQed. accordinglly you have no reason to dislike EQer.

1EQ(headphone) x 1EQ(EQer) = 1EQ

its simple equation.


----------



## rpeebles

TypodCrowd said:


> I've had experience with the Odac/O2 combo, most of the fiio line, the Nuforce combos. It depends on your price range and your approach to audio.
> 
> I myself am a reference lover (I want my source and amp to be "perfect" (flat EQ, low distortion, no fancy crossfeed stuff) and then my load (headphones) to color the sound as I please.
> 
> ...


----------



## rpeebles

*Dear TypodCrowd...that is very kind...much appreciated !! Lots to investigate !!*

*Thanks very much.*

*Best regards,*
*Robert*


----------



## TypodCrowd (Feb 13, 2018)

Pokemonn said:


> sorry, such a refernce thing never happned on the earth. any gear has colors and sounds diffrent.
> as KG said, "there is no such a thing as normal".



I understand that we wil *never* reach this "perfection" that I may seek. I also understand that a lot of the "perfection" I may be paying for is *mostly inaudible*. However, I am *not* talking about headphones or speakers. I'm talking about the DAC and the AMP portion of a stack. These two components can *quantitatively* be measured by many individuales and can therefore be *quantitatvely* assessed for change in comparision to a *baseline*, and also have these assessments *verified* by other individuals using *measurement instruments *(RMAA, electrical scopes, frequency analyzers, etc.). When we express these changes in *numbers*, we can *evaluate* the dirrerence, deviation, whatever you'd like to call it from this baseline. These baselines exists for *measurementes* like freq response, the various types or noise, cross talk, Dynamic range, etc. and often sit at *absolute* *zero, or negitive infinity*. These *exist in theory*, however, *in application, can only be approached* within some bounded error. This *error bound decreases* as our technology progresses.

I stand by KG compeltely from a *qualitative* prespective; *There is no "Normal"*; Humans all percieve sound *differently*; Everything is relative; Hakuna matata. I also understand that audio (and *music*, as its more relevant subset in this context) is a *qualitative* *experience*. I myself own a set of Alpha Primes which *color audio like hell and they do so beautifully*. However, I must come full circle and say that we actually can quantitatively analyze audio as well. *A sound wave is a pattern that can be defined by a mathematical function* (however complidated, unnecessecary, and pointless it may seem to most of the audio community), and *as long as we can define something methematically, we can assess it mathematically and compare and evlauate it quantitatively; Regardless of whether "perfection" exists (yet) or not.
*


Pokemonn said:


> ANY headphone are already phisically EQed. accordinglly you have no reason to dislike EQer.



As for "having no reason to dislike their EQ" - I *strongly* disagree. Almosts every audiophile you talk to will have *positive things* to say about one manufacturer or one of their products and a* negative things* to say about another. It is the existance of this *qualitative bias* that has lead to the growth of the audio industry, as well as most other industries in the world. We have *choices* in, manufacturers, product lines, price ranges, physical models, design philosiphies, and *even Beats vs Bose* (Yes, I know to some of you I just swore twice in that sentence there) simpy because *individuals have the right and the psychological ability to "dislike their EQ"*.  



Pokemonn said:


> 1EQ(headphone) x 1EQ(EQer) = 1EQ
> 
> its simple equation.



The equation is actually:

*EQ_headphones * EQ_custom = EQ_total*

Where EQ_custom can reperesent the multiplied EQ of your source, DAC, AMP, and anything else you'd like to put in the stack, including a little 16ohm resister (Cheers Etymotic, incredibly well played in reference to the ER4P vs the ER4S).

My point is that your sound is a combination of everything in your stack. It is *not* just some EQ you cannot change and have to accept as it is. It is also something you can *control* and *understand* more throughly by *minimizing* the EQ effects of certain parts of your stack, especially your DAC and AMP.


----------



## Pokemonn

you modified my equation. you wrong. i said..

1EQ(headphone) x 1EQ(EQer) = 1EQ(as same as another physically EQed headphone)

1 x 1 = 1

its primary school level mathematics. even kids can understand it.


----------



## TypodCrowd (Feb 13, 2018)

Pokemonn said:


> you modified my equation. you wrong. i said..
> 
> 1EQ(headphone) x 1EQ(EQer) = 1EQ(as same as another physically EQed headphone)
> 
> ...



My point was to change the equaition on purpose to reflect reality. The EQ your headphone applies will naturally be fundamentally different than the EQ your amp/dac/source components apply. Because they are different, they can't be represented by the same quantity (1EQ - as you stated) but instead, must be represented as individual quantities with their own values.

For example, You can definitely own a headhone with a* very distinct bass boost* in its sound character vs. an amp that has a *bass roll off*. Those two EQ's are *not the same* and therefore *can't be represented by the same "1EQ" identifier*.

If we're taking this into *highschool mathematics*, you're trying to say:

*a * a = a*

whereas my correction was to state:

*a * b = c*

with the adendum being;

*if b = 1*
then *a * 1 = c* -> *a = c*

Therefore, the final EQ (character of sound, nuance, color, whatever you want to call it) that you are finally listening to (the variable *c,* if it needs pointing out) acutally *can be isolated to only reflect the EQ of your headphones* (varuiable *a*) if and only if your DAC, Amp, source EQ's are all flat or close to flat (represented by setting variable *b = 1*). As a catch all, once again, I agree that this "perfection" doesn't exist in the audio world or in any world. However, in mathematics (and in engineering) we denote this imperfection as *tolerance*. My equations are a generalization and are stated as such to implore you to see that the EQ of each of a stack's components can't be represented by the same quantity. Each component *can* actualy be isolated given the correct conditions (other components being as close to "perfect" as possible) and by setting the appropriate tolerance around the *ideal perfection* (*1.0*). How do we get these to be "perfect"? By measuring them and evaluating them quantitatively; with numbers; just as we are trying to do with this oversimplified math equation.

To avoid carrying on this futile line of questioning surrounding how to multiply variables, constants, and before we get derailed further into how to multiply a curve (which is what EQ actually is), we shuold drop this and return to the original topic of the thread.
F'kin Stax. The beasts almighty.

PS. I realize I got a little agressive there - apologies. Kinda.


----------



## Pokemonn (Feb 15, 2018)

I just noticed 1EQ x 1EQ = EQ^2......LOL
you just need EQ = 1 then

1 x 1 x 1 x 1 = 1 x 1 =  still 1

or

0.5(headphone) x 2(Eqer) = still 1

or

2(headphone) x 0.5(EQer) = still 1


I mean is you can not hear diffrence between electrical EQed HPs and phisical EQed HPs if EQed same.
anyway please dont be sirious its just crazy hobby anyway...

> PS. I realize I got a little agressive there - apologies. Kinda.

no problem at all.  i am super relaxed. please be relax. please enjoy your music.


----------



## misooooo

what am I reading


----------



## TypodCrowd

misooooo said:


> what am I reading



Grade 10 mathematics. Once again, apologies.


----------



## SeaWo|f

At least it's rational, unlike what goes here most of the time..


----------



## mtoc

since none of stax is on WoF no more, there's nothing to discuss/be excited about, like a stax wake up thread, but you know it' too heavy for core-fans (at least to those self-tag stax and only fans, love stax and no else, at least in public eyes)


----------



## TypodCrowd

mtoc said:


> since none of stax is on WoF no more, there's nothing to discuss/be excited about, like a stax wake up thread, but you know it' too heavy for core-fans (at least to those self-tag stax and only fans, love stax and no else, at least in public eyes)


WoF?


----------



## wink

Wall of Flame.  Ooops, I mean Fame over at Innerfidelity.....

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame


----------



## AudioThief

Tyll is entitled to his opinion, and this isn't the first time I disagree with him, but removing the 009 is a joke.


----------



## Whitigir

I don’t care about whose opinion it is and what WOF is.  All I can say is that I am glad that I have T2 and 009, and I am blessed.  It has kept me away from HF for a bit, and likely to down size to keep only this system.  I only have a set of ears and so much time to enjoy, no time to listen to anything else or read BS anymore


----------



## Jones Bob

Tyll lost me when he stopped trusting his own ears and opinions and started listening to Katz.


----------



## Pokemonn

you have to admit that 009 is not perfect. if its perfect Tyll do not remove it since Tyll is Tyll is not Katz.
maybe only God is perfect so far.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 14, 2018)

There is nothing perfect, the world and universe exist due to imperfections and so everything inside it.  However, 009 and T2 is the system with the _*Least weakness*_ .  There is no God, because if he is a god, he gotta be perfect, and perfection can not exist in this universe we are in, and if he exist, then he is not perfect, and hence God status doesn’t apply.


----------



## kylev (Feb 14, 2018)

kylev said:


> *Short Impressions on 3 top tier Stax earspeakers - using Stax Amp SRM-717*
> 
> In summary, I like L700   more among of all 3, I feel personally it sits in between 007 and 009 - not too warm like 007 and not too analytical like 009.





MacedonianHero said:


> I'd suggest redoing this with a better amp....you might be very surprised.



This is continuation from my earlier post sometime back on Oct when I compared few Stax amps here , still part of the journey to try other Stax amp, this time round is the
VE Amp Enterprise E Lite
*
Short Impressions on VE Amp Enterprise E Lite*

https://imgur.com/a/uRBbH

This VE amp is loaned to me from my friend for the purpose of this review, and it has been with me for few weeks, so I kind of understand how it runs and sounds. Most of my impressions below would be based on comparison with my Stax SRM-717 amp.


So let me start with the physical build first.


The build of this amp is beautiful, solid build and quite heavy.

And I really like its black colour, combines with its printed logo in gold color makes it look elegant.
The tubes placement is also very neat somewhere in the middle on the top chassis, the tube hole is almost fully covered - not much exposed.
I like its simple volume knob design compare to stock Stax amp which has 2 knobs - one for the volume and the other one for the L/R balance, which sometimes it is rather difficult to keep L/R balanced if accidentally turning the wrong knob, sigh…

It only has single Stax Pro Bias headphone out with only XLR in from its rear body - unfortunately no Analog input like stock Stax amp. The power switch is located on the rear part as well, but it is very near to the power cable, one needs to fiddle a bit to turn the unit on - something that VE might need to consider to better reposition it, its just too close to the socket.

Another minor thing is on the cosmetics part specifically the printed Venture Electronics logo and the model below it, somehow it looks bit blurry, perhaps choice of brighter, solid gold text and better, precise printing will make it look more premium.
Despite all of those minor things, in overall, I am quite satisfied with the build.


For the purpose of this short review, I am comparing it with my 009 and L700 headphones.
The amp was fed with Gumby (Gungnir Multibit), using Audioquest King Cobra XLR cable. The Gumby itself was fed from my iMac, using basic Chord C-USB cable. Tracks were TIDAL FLAC lossless, played through Audirvana Plus.

One thing to note that I am using pure copper power cable instead of silver or silver plated copper.
Personally I feel this amp is very bright (aggressive) and rather shouty when using silver power cables, hence I switched to pure copper power cable to be able enjoy its sound.

*SR-L700*

Plugging my L700 into this amp, the first thing I realised was the power of this amp, it has more than enough power to drive it.
I just need to keep it at 8 - 9 clock position and it was already quite loud to my ear, compare to 717 which I need to turn all the way up to 10-11 clock position to have similar experience.
The second thing I realised was the soundstage, definitely better than my SRM-717 amp, it was wider and taller.

Clarity also very good with this amp, vocal is really good, and more natural than 717 amp which was quite dark and muddy. On top of that this amp has good speed, the pace is just right not slow sounding kind of tube amp.

Listening to Diana Krall tracks, was quite enjoyable, her voice was clear and every notes was also very clear. The bass hits deeper when listening to RHCP Dani California - but somehow the trebles were quite piercing to my ear.
The trebles is more piercing than to my HD800 SDR pairing with my Auralic Taurus, thus I prefer my HD800 SDR on this track.

There’s something that I feel bit off in terms of its trebles is it feels bit metallic sounding, especially when playing rock tracks.
However, listening to vocal oriented tracks, this pair is wonderful.


*SR-009*

Okay, for this one I started playing with the track that L700 earlier was bit struggle to play, Dani California from RHCP.

I need to turn up the volume bit more to enjoy it, 009 needs bit more power than L700.
009 has more clarity and brighter than L700 but the trebles didn’t pierce like what L700 did.

However, I still feel this pair can’t very well play this track, although it is no longer piercing, but somehow it still feels bit bright to my liking.
I once heard this track with Abyss Phi, I immediately fell in love with that phone. So, I can’t really enjoy this pair so much to play this track - compare to what I heard with Abyss Phi last time.
But still, I prefer and enjoyed this pair then L700 - to play this track.

009 with this VE amp also has wider and enveloping soundstage compare to L700.
It has very good dynamic, rich details, amazing vocal and airy presentation.
Playing Diana Krall tracks again was really enjoyable experience

When I listened to these tracks using 717 amp - for both phones L700 and 009, there was apparent gap in terms of details and clarity between L700 and 009.
But pairing both phones now with this VE amp somehow brings L700 bit closer to 009 in terms of clarity.
Personally, I feel L700 pair with this VE amp has its primary weakness on the treble presentation - compare to pairing with 009.

In overall, I believe 009 pairs better with this VE amp than L700.

Before I end this review, I also want to share about this audio plugin called ToneBooster Morphit that can be used with Audirvana Plus or other player that supports Audio Unit (AU), VST and VST3.
Look it up at https://www.toneboosters.com/tb_morphit_v1.html

All my above impression was done without using the  audio plugin, and if you think 009 is quite bright and you want to tone it down a bit, try out this plugin, it will make it tad warmer without losing its details hence making your big investment on 009 more enjoyable 
This Morphit plugin comes with built in Stax SR009 profile which you can use immediately.

I am waiting for my Carbon to be shipped soon  .. will share more once it comes...


----------



## sonics

IMO the Innerfidelity WoF is not supposed to be a static collection of the absolute "best" gear. It's about featuring and marketing new contenders based on quality or value. The 009, for example, should be gracefully called "retired" instead of "removed".


----------



## paradoxper

Who cares if Tyll removes x headphone. It's simply one man and his subjective rankings.


----------



## mtoc

What/Why Tyll is good is that he always will realize the truth, gradually, and no hesitation to speak them out, bravely. He trusts human nature besides those scientific fact(asy)s, plus improvement and improvations.


----------



## mtoc

forgot to add: world is such a cruel world, that indeed


----------



## Ali-Pacha

It strongly depends on your own tastes and sensivity.

Many people complain about 009 being bright because of the forwardness in high-mids. I personnaly feel this coquetry adds just a little presence which I like a lot.
Many people complain about 009 having sometimes fatiguing treble. To me, they're mistaking with high mids, and could be on the other hand perfectly fine with strong peaks in 8-10 khz region, very common on most cans other than estat, and sometimes particularly screechy to my ears (think Beyer, Fostex, almost all available orthodynamics)
Many people do prefer 007 to 009 generally. To me, that's precisely because 007 have recessed high mids (not Sennheiser's level but still), peak on 8-9 khz which is easily tolerated (even sought), slower and lesser bass than 009 (and low mids hump in 007mk2's case), so it hits the midrange sweetspot of lots of ears...somehow, 007 are dynamic cans done right.

I'm no "all about midrange" guy, I kinda like some high mids forwardness, I'm strongly displeased by peaks in 8-10 khz region, I value impactful and precise bass over slow bass which lures you about quantity...no surprise I strongly prefer 009 over 007 and did end up with selling my 007mk1. Even if I've waited for my BHSE to do so, but the level of awakening such an amp has over 007 wasn't enough for my tastes.

Ali


----------



## Whitigir

007 is best with carbon and not with tube amps, 009 is the opposite


----------



## JimL11

kylev said:


> This is continuation from my earlier post sometime back on Oct when I compared few Stax amps here , still part of the journey to try other Stax amp, this time round is the
> VE Amp Enterprise E Lite
> *
> Short Impressions on VE Amp Enterprise E Lite*
> ...



So, Not much out there on the VE amp, however, based on its description and the internal photo, it appears to be a variant of the SRM-T1 for its front end, but presumably with BJT inputs rather than FETs.  For the output stage, it appears to be a variant of the SRX-Plus with cascode constant current sources and using the same 6SN7GTB tubes as the SRX-Plus. May not have the SRX-Plus tail current source, though. Better than the T1 in terms of output tube and output stage design, however, not as powerful as the Gilmore designs.


----------



## catscratch

Tyll's word has far more weight than most other reviewers to me, but at the same time, you gotta use your own head, and ears. He thinks the Clear is the best out there currently, well I have the Clear and it's very far from that, at least to my ears. Nevertheless, while I don't agree with Tyll in a lot of cases, I do trust that he writes things how he hears them, or measures them, and that is very valuable.

Basically, it's not a matter of "Tyll's the best, therefore his word is gospel" but he's a significant data point, to me probably one of the most significant data points. Which is to be used as a data point, no more, no less. Sadly, many other reviewers are less data points and more marketing, and are worth less than the time it takes to read them.


----------



## joseph69

I've always noticed a overanll fuller sound with added warmth, depth, sound stage and openness when I pulled my ear cups slightly away from my face just below my temples and just above my jaw muscles (breaking the pad seal) with my 009. Yesterday I decided to place 2 felt dots at these points on each ear pad (for trial purposes) and listened last night, and I really enjoyed what I was hearing. 

My goal was to break the pad seal in the areas mentioned above and keep the position of the pads slightly (and I mean slightly) angled away from the front of my face. Today I very carefully removed the center Torx screw of both the L/R gimbals (don't remove the 2 phillips head screws on each side of the Torx screws, there's no need too at all, they don't thread into the headband) which hold the gimbals to the headband assembly with a #5 Torx head screwdriver, while keeping the shouldered part of the screw inserted into the gimbals (so you don't lose the 2 thin bottom washers which are on the shoulder of the screw.) Only remove the top beveled metal spring washer (which sits between the gimbals and the headband) and replace them with a 3/32" x 15/64" x 9/128" rubber O-rings. This was the smallest size O-ring I had, which gave me the tightest fit on the screws. I then very carefully re-assembled the gimbals and headband compressing the O-rings just to create enough friction between the gimbals and the headband so they wouldn't move from my desired angle.

I'm now able to place my 009 on my head and very slightly angle the cups away from the front of my face just enough to break the pad seal to my liking and I'm very much enjoying the results! I know everyone always says "get the best seal you can get" but I feel differently about this just for a change of sound. @zolkis I know you're into modding your ear pads and I would love for you as well as others who may be interested in hearing what reminds me of a beautiful mix between the 007mk2 & 009 (depending on the angle and of course your hearing....or maybe not even? Some may like it, and some may not, but I'd figured I'd share my positive experience this simple mod has given me, and if it doesn't work for you, just simply remove the O-rings and replace the beveled metal spring washers (concave end upwards facing towards the headband) and you're back in business with where you started!

Here are a few photos of my 009 (on their stand from the back) showing my desired angle. Keep in mind that when I place the headphones on my head, the angle is much less than it appears in the photos due to the contour of my head and face.


----------



## purk

AudioThief said:


> Tyll is entitled to his opinion, and this isn't the first time I disagree with him, but removing the 009 is a joke.


hate admit but i do agree with u.  the sr009 is one fine sounding headphones deserving of the WOF spot. 

that @Whitigir is one lucky but capable dude.  I am really happy for him.


----------



## zolkis

@joseph69 There can be good seal even with relatively loose fit.
However, I also noticed that a slight leak under the pads might help the sound become more relaxed and more realistic at the expense of diminishing measured bass extension around 25 Hz. The 007 falls in that category, together with the Fostex and Denon, but I also noticed the effect with the Phenomenon. So it should also work with the 009, regardless of the means you achieve that effect.
However, with the 009 I kept coming back to the factory configuration, all tunings sound nice and different, but I like the 009 be THE reference headphone.

#WoF. IMHO the 009 not only deserves the Wall of Fame, but it is still the reigning reference there (for me) that also sounds very musical (if it doesn't for you, upgrade your system  ), unlike e.g. the Focals, which to my ears are references too, but in a technical, rather than musical way. It is fine that Tyll challenges Stax, though. There are more and more electrostatic contenders to the throne.


----------



## joseph69

zolkis said:


> @joseph69 There can be good seal even with relatively loose fit.
> However, I also noticed that a slight leak under the pads might help the sound become more relaxed and more realistic at the expense of diminishing measured bass extension around 25 Hz. The 007 falls in that category, together with the Fostex and Denon, but I also noticed the effect with the Phenomenon. So it should also work with the 009, regardless of the means you achieve that effect.
> However, with the 009 I kept coming back to the factory configuration, all tunings sound nice and different, but I like the 009 be THE reference headphone.


Good bass description of what I'm hearing even though I've never heard any of the headphones you've mentioned. I agree that a loose fit gives basically the same sound I achieved, but being the headband is plastic I didn't want to heat it and stretch it out. And yes, it is a more relaxed sound, just something different to appreciate with the 009. I too also love the 009 in stock form as well, and who knows if I'll return to that configuration. The nice thing is, if I want to, all I have to do is angle the cups now to create a full seal. Again, just messing around with different tuning of the 009 and enjoying it.


----------



## TypodCrowd

Would anyone be able to suggest a DAC here? I have an Odac O2 combo I'm using right now with my 252s + L700 but I really need to switch to a dedicated dac in the next, let's say, week or so if possible.

Sterile and non-coloring is what I'm looking for (so that I can hear the tone of the l700 and the 252s most accurately). My current Target is the OlDac by JDS Labs. However, something with a newer chip would be awesome.


----------



## rpeebles

Could some kind members help me compare the L-700 to the SR-009. Maybe there is a Link where someone trustworthy has done that. 
I am between the two and would like to purchase.
Thanks and regards !


----------



## ZGojira

rpeebles said:


> Could some kind members help me compare the L-700 to the SR-009. Maybe there is a Link where someone trustworthy has done that.
> I am between the two and would like to purchase.
> Thanks and regards !



The response is likely going to be dependent on what amp you plan to use.


----------



## rpeebles

ZGojira said:


> The response is likely going to be dependent on what amp you plan to use.



To start with I would have to use the King Sound M-03 portable amplifier and towards the second half of this year, get a fixed STAX amp - any amp suggestions for  these Headphones ? Budget for the amp, $2K

I am not bass heavy...prefer crisp & clear trebles.

Thank you for your help !!

Best


----------



## Whitigir

Crips and clear trebles ? I don’t think anything beat 009, though I have not heard any new ES either


----------



## wink

TypodCrowd said:


> Would anyone be able to suggest a DAC here?(snip).


Get the YGGY........ (Schiit Yggdrasil)


----------



## TypodCrowd

wink said:


> Get the YGGY........ (Schiit Yggdrasil)


I was going for something less....big and expensive haah


----------



## VRacer-111

TypodCrowd said:


> I was going for something less....big and expensive haah



Gustard X20 Pro or the new X22...


----------



## Whitigir

Never heard Gustard but I have LKS 004 and love it


----------



## Rossliew

Bifrost Multibit


----------



## SeaWo|f

At about 1k less than the yggy, the level 1 holo audio spring dac looks like a good deal.


----------



## mulveling

I recently got an old ECP Audio mX DAC from Purk, and like it slightly better than the v1 Yggdrasil. In fact I sold my Yggy. Its DAC chip is mundane (Ti or Wolfson modules, swap-able), but the analog stage is superior. Uses Lundahl output transformers. It's slightly warmer, sweeter sounding than Yggy. Costs a lot less, too. Unfortunately ECP DACs are rare as hens teeth. But if you ever see one - highly recommended!


----------



## Whitigir

Why does @purk always have good stuff! Lol


----------



## mulveling (Feb 16, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> Why does @purk always have good stuff! Lol


Yep I got my BHSE from him too, lol.

The Yggy was slightly better in overall speed/detail, but I just ended up liking the ECP better. It sounds more analog, despite the delta-sigma DAC chips. I've been falling in love again with my BHSE/009 all anew, now with the ECP and Amarra 4 Luxe (still kinda buggy and kludgey, but getting there - I hated Audirvana). The newness on the Focal Utopias wore off quick, though they're still nice headphones, but they're no Stax. And now I'm owner of one of the most ridiculous cost differentials between my digital and analog sources. Here's my analog (speakers only for now):


----------



## TypodCrowd

Let's put some context here...
I own a 252s and would be flying this DAC around with me with my setup as I work for different employers and companies. Sadly that's limits size and weight.

I know a USB powered Dac can only do me so well, so I'm alright with a externally powered one. Something like the Pro Ject Pre Box S2 (if anyone has one and can measure it please let me know - there's no graphs anywhere online)

I currently own an ODAC but it is up for sale. So that's the sort of price, size, and feature range I'm looking into. Oh and I don't plan to listen to DSD in the near to mid future...


----------



## SeaWo|f

Hugo 2?


----------



## AudioThief

Stax SRM 727ii is in house. It sounds absolutely lovely, huge upgrade from the 252s.

However, I feel like I'm leaving sound quality on the table if I don't do the feedback mod. Does anyone have any resources on how to perform the modification? Googling came up with nothing for me except people talking about it.


----------



## TypodCrowd

AudioThief said:


> Stax SRM 727ii is in house. It sounds absolutely lovely, huge upgrade from the 252s.
> 
> However, I feel like I'm leaving sound quality on the table if I don't do the feedback mod. Does anyone have any resources on how to perform the modification? Googling came up with nothing for me except people talking about it.



Could just ask Birgir. he's pretty responsive outside of HF.


----------



## thinker (Feb 16, 2018)

We were listening to both Phenomenon Canorum V3 and Libratum V3.I have to come back to Steve Guttenberg about accuracy.If you like accuracy like 009 the Libratum V3 presents the same accuracy with added 2% freedom against 009,although you have to change stock pads to much flatter with certain density.Then you have a phone wich has near identical measurements with 009.

*BUT ....*if you kick ass to accuracy and like the legends HE-90,R10 and if you like to enjoy your life without stress ,take a cigar and listen to the new Canorum V3, choose the right amp wich is airy and has great soundstage..tubes? then you have a slice of heaven.

If Canorum V3 was presented 20 years ago it would be now on the same row with legends.


----------



## mulveling

I don't get the knocks against 009's accuracy? It's simply the (almost) complete absence of distortion. Driven by a BHSE or DIY T2 the 009 actually has a gorgeous midrange (just a touch of warmth) and sweet treble. Tonally very natural sounding, with amazing musical flow, and is one of the extremely few headphone setups that doesn't get completely embarrassed by an extremely high-end speaker setup. No grain, hash, or discernible artifacts of any kind. Nothing about it sounds mechanical at all. The R10 by comparison is a flawed headphone; its bass is vastly inferior to the 009's.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol (Feb 16, 2018)

Excuse me for the lame pun, but all this Phenomenon/Perun/Mrspeakers/anything electrostatic that isn't Stax talk reminds me of a Jamiroquai song, "Shillness in time"

"There’s a shillness in time
Which I cannot define
Does your heart bleed like mine
Oh, does your heart yearn
For a place we can go where the
Troubles of our time are far away
Hey, they are so far away

And I had all my life in front of me
Now my darkest days are trouble free
There are so many wondrous things for you to see

If you find that something’s going wrong
Look around at what you’re running from
You can wait a thousand years in line
For that shillness in time"


----------



## Tinkerer

AudioThief said:


> Stax SRM 727ii is in house. It sounds absolutely lovely, huge upgrade from the 252s.
> 
> However, I feel like I'm leaving sound quality on the table if I don't do the feedback mod. Does anyone have any resources on how to perform the modification? Googling came up with nothing for me except people talking about it.



Very simple. I would probably recommend new resistors though as they're so cheap and it's very difficult to remove the old ones without chipping the insulation.


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## AudioThief (Feb 17, 2018)

Thank you @Tinkerer  I appreciate that. Where exactly is it I would find that part? I will have to explain to my father what needs to be done (he is an electrical engineer) and I'm not sure if he will immediately recognize from the picture ? Or maybe he will.

I guess I should give my impressions after one day with the sr 007 + 727ii combo. Source is spotify premium via Mimby.

So I should say that I got my SR 007 last week but after a couple of days put them back in the box until I got my new amplfiier as the 252s was not capable driving them at all. The headphones fell apart at higher volumes. Immediately I thought they were fine, but they became too annoying after a couple of days. L300 are still great headphones so I enjoyed them while waiting for the amplifier.

The new amplifier, in short, gave the sound more weight, larger scale, and it got rid of the very annoying shimmer/hardness in the treble. It is still somewhat present in specific recordings, but nowhere near what it was on the 252s. All in all, I could see myself living with this setup till the end of days. But seeing as I am aware of the feedback mod, I will try to get that done just so the amp is at its best.

As for the sound itself... I feel it is fitting to explain my journey to where I am now, as I feel I am a bit at a roads end... The chase is over so to speak.

My first foray into new headphones came when I broke my cheap earbuds while weightlifting in february 2017. I was going to go to the hardware store and pick up a new couple of cheap ones, but I remember the ones that broke annoyed me because they had too much bass than the ones I had before them (I listen to metal when weightlifting, it became too muddy). So I thought hey, maybe I should spend a bit extra on something QUALITY so they don't break so fast, and maybe I'll get cleaner sound as well? So I went online and started looking for earbuds, or as I would soon found out - In ear monitors. It wasn't long until I found Head-Fi, and I was introduced to a world I did not know existed at all! High end headphones. I did a ton of reading, saw a lot of very cool and very expensive headphones, learned about amplifiers and DACs... But those were outside of my reach at the time.

I had this notion that price = performance, so when I saw the Sony XBA H3 on sale for 60% off on a domestic online retailer, I went for it. I would just like to say that they are in use to this day and I am very happy with that purchase. They obviously have a ton of issues in terms of fidelity, but I have low expectations for IEMs in general now and they have a special place in my heart as my first "high end" IEM/headphones. I was talking to my father about this purchase, and he said that when he was my age (mid twenties) he spent all his money on speakers and vinyl, and suggested I rather spend the money on high quality equipment to use at home. And so I decided that I needed to upgrade my desktop headphones as well. The funny thing is that they are somewhat "high end" in that they are the ATH m50s, which I bought in 2011. I remember feeling very superior as the M50s were tauted as neutrality kings while beats were for people who did not care for accurate reproduction of sound (LOL). I literally thought high end audio was M50 vs Beats at the time (back in 2011).

After figuring out that Tyll Hertsens was a very well liked man, and reading his review of the Fidelity X2, I saw them as my ticket into high end audio - they were cheap, and when I demo'd them at the store, I was blown away by the concept of its soundstage. So I bought them, and started showing it to my friends and family. Reading head-fi became my main leisure activity, and of course I soon saw that I would have to upgrade my headphones and invest in a DAC and amp. Looking online, I found a pair of Denon AH-D5000 for sale, and I went for it. I searched around and people said that at this stage, I *had* to get dac + amp, especially amp. So I went for the Dragonfly Red.

This combination was really quite lovely, and I had it for several months (I only kept the Fidelio for around 1 month, hehe). But once my vacation pay came around, I decided to SPLURGE. I went for Fostex TH 900, what I viewed as the direct upgrade from Denon AH-D5000 (its not), and a Hegel HD 12 DAC with headphone out. Again, a fantastic combination. At this stage I'd say I had been exposed to a significant increase in speed, resolution, soundstage etc with the TH 900. I eventually sold the HD12 and bought a more powerful amp, as I had a HD650 coming in (I needed a "grown up" pair of headphones as well for classical, jazz etc).

At this point I started becoming some sort of collector. I purchased a JVC HPDX1000 as well (awesome cans, seriously), and just sat around comparing headphones, reviewing them, comparing equipment, browsing equipment etc. At some point I stumbled into Stax, and learned about electrostats. When a used SRS 3100 system popped up, I had to try it.

And since then, nothing has ever been the same. While I was immediately floored by the speed and resolution of the L300, it took a couple of months before I realized that electrostats is the only sound I am after. It simply beat all my other headphones at everything except bass. It was the one pair of headphone I could use for all my music, and just keep on jamming tune after tune, week after week. While I feel I have "outgrown" my dynamic cans, the L300 is still HIGHLY enjoyable for me. When a pair of SR-007 popped up on the domestic used market, I was quick to arrange finances for it, and bought it, and a week later my amp (727II) is here as well...

As previously mentioned, my initial response from the 007 mk1 (via 252) was amazing resolution, soundstage and imaging compared to l300 (and detail). But they soon became fatiguing and sounded very unnatural in many recordings, especially at louder listening volumes. Upon receiving the 727, essentially all of these issues are gone, and to my ears the only issue is that on some tracks, the hardness returns, but it is much more rare and less fatiguing / annoying than before. I haven't tried the L300 through the 727 yet, but I believe 007 will handidly beat them. The 007 mk1 via the 727 to me is basically perfection. It is such a massive upgrade from my other headphones when I consider presence, realism, sense of scale, detail and resolution. I would say the L300 gets close enough on a lot of things and are an awesome pair of headphones, but I would also say that the upgrade was definitely worth it. It feels very weird to feel that I don't have anywhere to go headphone wise from here. But it also fills me with joy, because when I enjoy my cans this much while "listening for differences" (which always ruins my listening joy), I can't imagine how much I will enjoy them when I am focusing on the music, not listening to specific traacks just to "test the rig".

If I am buying anytihng audio related in  the future, I think it will be a stax headphone stand or two + dust covers... Other than that I don't feel this rig needs any changing. The TH 900 are sold and the JVC and Denons are out for sale. I'm done with dynamic headphones, Stax to my ears is the only way.


----------



## wuwhere

My 007Mk1 is never fatiguing at all. But my amp and DAC are different from yours.


----------



## AudioThief

wuwhere said:


> My 007Mk1 is never fatiguing at all. But my amp and DAC are different from yours.



It was definitely fatiguing on the 252s, with a very clear shimmer/hardness up top. On the 727, it may be completely gone, we will see. I have heard it on some specific tracks today, but I have also heard unusually loud (I always end up doing that when I get new equipment unfortunately). Not normal/natural listening volumes at all I would say.


----------



## Muffinhead

AudioThief said:


> It was definitely fatiguing on the 252s, with a very clear shimmer/hardness up top. On the 727, it may be completely gone, we will see. I have heard it on some specific tracks today, but I have also heard unusually loud (I always end up doing that when I get new equipment unfortunately). Not normal/natural listening volumes at all I would say.


With proper amplification, the Sr007's (i have mk2.9 bass port modded, apparently like the mk1's) are the most "liquid" headphones I have tried, and I have a fair amount of listening experience with hifi/midfi gear. Nothing harsh about them. The gentleman I bought the headphones from also had (possibly still has) an amp for sale. It's a Mjolnir amp, which people round these parts seem to regard as the best of the best. I can't attest to how this amp performs with Sr007/sr009, but I'd be willing to bet it's capable. Link for anyone interested: http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/...static-stax-hev90aristaeus-type-amp-rk40-pot/


----------



## catscratch

007 Mk1 was never fatiguing for me either, but I only ever used it with a 717 and an original Blue Hawaii, as well as a few transformer-box based rigs. Make sure your pads are in good condition - you'll probably be replacing them once every few years as the foam inside wears out quickly - and make sure you have a good fit. The headband can be bent mercilessly though be very careful with the cables, the strain relief around the cables on the Mk1 is a known weakpoint, so never yank on them or drop the phones.

I think I listened to nothing but the 007 for 4-5 years? Something like that? Talk about being spoiled. Headphones were never quite the same after that. Though at the end of the day, I have to say that my favorite headphone for all-around use is still... (drumroll) the HD650.

You still have plenty of places to go, headphone wise, though maybe not with the headphones themselves. High-res devices need a good source and are very receptive to source changes, and of course the 727 is hardly ideal. Learning to DIY can save you some money on amps, but when it comes to electrostatic amps, you're very much working with high-voltage devices, and you need to know the proper precautions, cause if they tingle you, there's a pretty good chance it's lights out. So you want to be safe. But at the same time if you can learn it, it's a great option, is fun, and will save you quite a bit. If not, save up and upgrade your source and amp, the 007 will scale and scale, as will any quality high-end electrostat (though your wallet will definitely feel it).


----------



## VRacer-111

Interesting journey AudioThief. We all have our preferences, mine seems to be primarily Fostex with a side of STAX/ESP950... Modded Fostex dynamics are my main love in headphones with electrostats being a nice alternative listen when wanting something different or more insight into the technicalities of a piece. Personally, as good as electrostats are technically, they just don't give me the same enjoyment from music as biodyna driver Foster cans... something about a modded Biodyna driver Fostex absolutely clicks with me unlike anything else. Of the higher end STAX I've listened to I prefer the SR-009 sound over that of the SR-007, but honestly prefer the new Lamdas over either of the Sigmas - the presentation of music from the Lamdas is more to my liking. While techinally I don't have my own STAX setup yet, I do have had the SR-L300 Limited preordered from when I first found out about it. Was going to go with the L700 and waiting to find a good used deal beforehand, but a Limited L300/L700 hybrid for half the price of an L700 - absolutely count me in! 

I do have a Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 based electrostat transformer coming in that is planned for use with a NAD C275BEE stereo amp and Gustard X20U DAC (which will also temporarily serve as the preamp for volume control until a good passive preamp is sourced for it - found the Ci Audio VPC-3 which has features I really like and will probably end up going with.) When the Mjolnir SRD-7 arrives I'll be checking out the SRD-7/C275BEE combo with the Koss ESP950 and comparing it against the Schiit Loki/STAX SRM-323S driver unit combo I normally use.


----------



## Phenomenon (Feb 17, 2018)

[url=https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/phenomenon-m/album/563452/view/1661894]
	
[/URL]
[url=https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/phenomenon-m/album/563452/view/1661895]
	
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[url=https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/phenomenon-m/album/563452/view/1661893]
	
[/URL]


----------



## Whitigir

mulveling said:


> I don't get the knocks against 009's accuracy? It's simply the (almost) complete absence of distortion. Driven by a BHSE or DIY T2 the 009 actually has a gorgeous midrange (just a touch of warmth) and sweet treble. Tonally very natural sounding, with amazing musical flow, and is one of the extremely few headphone setups that doesn't get completely embarrassed by an extremely high-end speaker setup. No grain, hash, or discernible artifacts of any kind. Nothing about it sounds mechanical at all. The R10 by comparison is a flawed headphone; its bass is vastly inferior to the 009's.



You just said everything I would.  I can not get enough of the 009 when paired with DIY T2.


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## VandyMan

thinker said:


> ...Libratum V3 presents the same accuracy with added 2% freedom against 009



I'd love to know what 2% freedom sounds like.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I think it's roughly equivalent to 5% liberty.


----------



## Rossliew

Birgir's SMD KGSSHv + 007 Mk 2 = sonic bliss


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## paradoxper

Congrats, Ross!


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## Rossliew

paradoxper said:


> Congrats, Ross!



Thanks, Cory. Its getting most of my listening time now. On the dynamic side, Doug's DSHA still holds fort


----------



## paradoxper

They call that 'endgame', right.


----------



## SeaWo|f

What does the SMD stand for?


----------



## Muffinhead

SeaWo|f said:


> What does the SMD stand for?


surface mount device


----------



## SeaWo|f

Oh cool, I didn't know he had gotten to that point with his KGSSHV project.


----------



## Rossliew

paradoxper said:


> They call that 'endgame', right.



You got me thinking there.....pretty much yeah


----------



## Rossliew

SeaWo|f said:


> Oh cool, I didn't know he had gotten to that point with his KGSSHV project.



More than enough power for any and all electrostatic cans. It pairs admirably with my 007, SRX Mk III Pros and Libratums. You really don't need anything else IMO


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## mulveling (Feb 17, 2018)

WHEN has any of this been about need? I passed way beyond the point-of-no-return years ago, lol. The 007 does make for an excellent pairing with Mjolnir's KGSShv minis.


----------



## Rossliew

Hahahaha you have a valid point there, Mulveling! Have been through the want phase many a time but age has made me more practical...i no longer harbour for "moar" but seem "less is better" nowadays  Then again, if a decently priced used BHSE comes along...well...


----------



## Muffinhead

mulveling said:


> WHEN has any of this been about need? I passed way beyond the point-of-no-return years ago, lol. The 007 does make for an excellent pairing with Mjolnir's KGSShv minis.


Right on. None of us need $2k headphones and amps lol. But the gear part of audiophiledom is something so visceral that appeals to humans' desire to always want more and never stop; it's truly addicting. Philosophizing aside, what more do I have to gain from going from my modded T1 to a cheap(er) Mjolnir amp, or something along the likes of it? I feel like I'm way past the point of diminishing marginal returns, but who knows, maybe some of you claim to have heard a revolution in the sr007's sound with an upgrade like that.


----------



## AudioThief

Muffinhead said:


> Right on. None of us need $2k headphones and amps lol. But the gear part of audiophiledom is something so visceral that appeals to humans' desire to always want more and never stop; it's truly addicting. Philosophizing aside, what more do I have to gain from going from my modded T1 to a cheap(er) Mjolnir amp, or something along the likes of it? I feel like I'm way past the point of diminishing marginal returns, but who knows, maybe some of you claim to have heard a revolution in the sr007's sound with an upgrade like that.



To my ears right now on day 2 of 727ii I'll tell ya don't think I will be upgrading my amplifier. Yes yes heresy I know, but my UNMODDED 727ii sounds like audio perfection - I can't ask for more. Obviously new toy syndrome etc but it feels as if this time is different. And I don't think its my wallet performing mind control on me. It sounds awesome. I don't know how many people who have had extensive time with 007 mk1 & 727ii combo but I don't agree with what I have been reading. 

Now, considering modded T1 is supposedly a clear step up from an unmodded 727ii.... I mean, as you say, we are way past the point of diminishing returns. I personally don't care about diminishing returns in that I think its worth it if its worth it to you and the sound upgrade is necessary in your ear... But for me.. I feel content and happy now. I feel that I have always made compromises with my headphones. Not this time. This is my sound. While I 100% believe that BHSE/Carbon etc is a direct and clear upgrade from my current amp, I do not deem it necessary nor do I believe that it will transform the 007s into something they are not.. - and I wouldn't want it to anyways.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Feb 17, 2018)

AudioThief, in all honesty, a DAC upgrade would be more useful for your system than any amp upgrade if you wanted to really max its potential. While not a bad DAC, the Modi multi-bit is the weakest link of your system right now. A better DAC would be recommended if you ever get the itch to upgrade something. You don't have to spend a great fortune either there are excellent options out there between $500-$1000 that are MUCH better than a Modi multi-bit.


----------



## AudioThief

VRacer-111 said:


> AudioThief, in all honesty, a DAC upgrade would be more useful for your system than any amp upgrade if you wanted to really max its potential. While not a bad DAC, the Modi multi-bit is the weakest link of your system right now. A better DAC would be recommended if you ever get the itch to upgrade something. You don't have to spend a great fortune either there are excellent options out there between $500-$1000 that are MUCH better than a Modi multi-bit.



You seem to be implying I am not already starting to stake out higher level DACs  Not to derail the discussion but what DACs would you recommend? I am unlikely to spend more than 1500$ on a DAC I think, used or new.


----------



## Muffinhead

AudioThief said:


> You seem to be implying I am not already starting to stake out higher level DACs  Not to derail the discussion but what DACs would you recommend? I am unlikely to spend more than 1500$ on a DAC I think, used or new.





VRacer-111 said:


> AudioThief, in all honesty, a DAC upgrade would be more useful for your system than any amp upgrade if you wanted to really max its potential. While not a bad DAC, the Modi multi-bit is the weakest link of your system right now. A better DAC would be recommended if you ever get the itch to upgrade something. You don't have to spend a great fortune either there are excellent options out there between $500-$1000 that are MUCH better than a Modi multi-bit.


I was literally about to ask about DAC's when I saw this. And funny thing is, I have the Modi Multibit, too. @VRacer-111 what differences can you hear between a lesser DAC such as mine and a ~$500 one?


----------



## AudioThief

Muffinhead said:


> I was literally about to ask about DAC's when I saw this. And funny thing is, I have the Modi Multibit, too. @VRacer-111 what differences can you hear between a lesser DAC such as mine and a ~$500 one?



Indeed. I am quite happy with my modi multibit and I found it a big upgrade over my previous dragonfly red. I think I will stick to the R2R/multibit camp going forward, measurements be damned.

By the way, I want to mention something which has followed me in my audio journey... 

Sometimes, when you upgrade your equipment, you "unlock" a certain ability to render certain tracks... Now, some tracks are more demanding than others, and some tracks are beyond saving. I'll give an example. 

When I got into high fidelity audio a year ago, I was jamming out big time to Tycho's album Epoch. I was loving it, but at some point my critical listening skills improved, and I could hear that it was a tad bit too muddy with my denon ah-d5000 some months later. When I got the TH 900, the muddiness was gone and I had very crisp and clear rendition of the tracks, which was great. However, once I got my HD650s, I noticed a flaw in my TH 900 - the lack of mids and overbearing high end made the track less balanced albeit still enjoyable ( and obviously the hd650 is much more laid back overall). 

Now when I got Stax SR-L300, of course all this changed and Stax took almost every song I had any issue with and turned it into audio perfection - with a few but consistent flaws. Most notably the L300 was my first headphone to truly manage Carpenter Bruts "Roller Mobster". TH 900 got close, but the L300 was the only one that could truly keep up. 

But there was one song which my headphones could never handle. This track always turned into sibilant ear rape no matter what. But now, with my Stax SR-007 and SRM 727, I can enjoy it to its fullest. The track I am talking about is Preludes/ book 1. ll.117:2 voiles, a live recording performed by pianist Krystian Zimerman (composed by Claude Debussy). For those of you familiar with the song, there is a famous part where the piano plays a dramatic breakdown. This, on all setups, has been very unclear, harsh, shimmering, even downright painful. But I am happy to say that my current setup plays it perfectly, and I can finally enjoy this beautiful rendition of the track to its fullest.

I would be interested to hear if anyone else have similar experiences.. I have of course many more tracks I could mention, but oftentimes its more a question of taking something which was good and turning it into something which is absolutely great - not directly "saving" the track so to speak.


----------



## Muffinhead

AudioThief said:


> Indeed. I am quite happy with my modi multibit and I found it a big upgrade over my previous dragonfly red. I think I will stick to the R2R/multibit camp going forward, measurements be damned.
> 
> By the way, I want to mention something which has followed me in my audio journey...
> 
> ...


I studied Voiles in my intro music class last semester! And I have a song like that that was quite sibilant before I got the SR007. This: The constant snare and hi hat sounds echoing were brutal on HD800's, and LC2's didn't capture the ambience of the song.


----------



## kid vic

ToroFiestaSol said:


> Excuse me for the lame pun, but all this Phenomenon/Perun/Mrspeakers/anything electrostatic that isn't Stax talk reminds me of a Jamiroquai song, "Shillness in time"
> 
> "There’s a shillness in time
> Which I cannot define
> ...



lol don't punish jamiroquai for this ok?


----------



## VRacer-111 (Feb 18, 2018)

AudioThief said:


> You seem to be implying I am not already starting to stake out higher level DACs  Not to derail the discussion but what DACs would you recommend? I am unlikely to spend more than 1500$ on a DAC I think, used or new.





Muffinhead said:


> I was literally about to ask about DAC's when I saw this. And funny thing is, I have the Modi Multibit, too. @VRacer-111 what differences can you hear between a lesser DAC such as mine and a ~$500 one?



I had a Schiit Bifrost (4490AKM) version, and while it was a little better than my Dragonfly Red in regards to detail and bass extension, it just did not mesh well with my expectations, music never sounded right with it. Very sterile/flat sounding compared to the DFR on my modded Gustard H10 amp and modded TH-X00PHs - the DFR is clearer with better dynamics and body. Then I found a great deal on a used Gustard X20U DAC for just over $500... a DAC which I wanted to try based on everything I read and my experience with the Gustard H10 amp.

Well I'll say this about the X20, it's much closer to YGGY level based of the YGGYs I've heard than to the Bifrost/DFR end of things - way far over to the YGGY side. Far, far surpasses the Bifrost and DFR in ever manner - clearer sounding, better extension on both ends of the spectrum, much better BASS body/impact, much better detail especially with regards to intonation of instrument and vocals, the highs are very energetic and precise yet not fatiguing, and the speed/dynamics are noticeably improved. Two things that really stand out in the forefront are the improvement in clarity/details and its dynamics - it's an entirely different level of DAC compared to those other two. And the sound is much more full bodied, clear, and natural sounding compared the Bifrost which was cold/sterile and overall just "off" sounding.

And though I don't have experience with it, I know a few in this thread do - the Holo Audio Spring DAC for $1500, YGGY contender for $1k less...


----------



## wink

Just get the YGGY.............


----------



## paradoxper

And upgrade your amp.


----------



## wink

^ Definitely this........


----------



## AudioThief

paradoxper said:


> And upgrade your amp.


As I said, I dont think I will  either the 727 are crininally underrated or my ears are garbage, but I dont feel the need to.


----------



## astrostar59

The 007A post 2015 version is much better than the older MK2s, pretty much everyone that has had both agree there (even at the bully forum). It does some things really well and is forgiving (at last a Stax HP that isn't too 'lit up' or tizzy. But IMO the 009 does other inciting things better as well, speed, transparency, controlled bass with more texture and detail in the bass. The 007A is my preference in the end with my own Stax journey overall. If only Stax could merge the 2 HPs together somehow? Is it even possible? It will be interesting to hear how the Mr Speaker new electrostatic unit fair as that is supposed to be a middle way between the 007 and 009. Lets wait for folk on here to do the leg work. Don't rate magazine reviews anymore, not with any weight....

IMO there is no holy grail HP I have heard to date, even the HE-1. But that got closest to my perceived summit of head-fi so far, had great body and weight, slightly warm (which I like), not a detail freak HP, just super natural and smooth yet still dynamic and correct levels of detail to my ears and preferences. It affected me more than I realised....

Not heard a T2 yet, or the Abyss, or the new MrSpeakers.....

I would *love Stax to come back with another top HP to throw a spanner in the works.* I remember the frenzy of the 009's launch and Tyll saying it was the worlds best HP....
The new Stax amp was a major disappointment, and seemed way overpriced, just an incremental movement forward. I wonder on that amp if they were scared to have tubes out the top? It seemed a halfway house design, certainly sonically it was.


----------



## buzzlulu

Will anyone be at CanJam today - particularly at the Woo Audio booth?
I am new to the Stax train and was there yesterday demoing the Lamda's.  They had the new black 353 anniversary amp and a 300/500 and eventually a 700.  The rep told me the 300 was the new anniversary addition.  I forgot to look for the gold emblem which would indicate so.

I am leery about what he told me as he did not seem that familiar with things.  When asked how much the anniversary amplifier was he said "about $2000".  I got home to find out that was obviously wrong.  Even though he had the 353 black amplifier and the new portable amplifier I am under the impression the 300 anniversary cans are not here yet - so most likely I was listening to a regular 300??  My demo also led me to believe they were not the anniversary ones as they sounded the worst of the bunch - and the same as a second 300 he had there.


----------



## Rossliew

paradoxper said:


> And upgrade your amp.



x2.


----------



## VandyMan

buzzlulu said:


> Will anyone be at CanJam today - particularly at the Woo Audio booth?
> ... The rep told me the 300 was the new anniversary addition.  I forgot to look for the gold emblem which would indicate so.



Yes, that was the L300 anniversary, which has the L700 driver.



buzzlulu said:


> When asked how much the anniversary amplifier was he said "about $2000".  I got home to find out that was obviously wrong.  Even though he had the 353 black amplifier and the new portable amplifier I am under the impression the 300 anniversary cans are not here yet - so most likely I was listening to a regular 300??  My demo also led me to believe they were not the anniversary ones as they sounded the worst of the bunch - and the same as a second 300 he had there.



Not sure who you spoke to, but I always find Jack Woo to be friendly and well informed. I think they were giving you the package price (ie for both the amp and the headphones), which is something around $1700. Yes, it was an actual L300 Anniversary. Woo is a STAX dealer and has close ties to STAX, so they can get products early for shows, etc. 

Spoke to Jack a bit about the new STAX battery powered DAC/amp. Sounded much better than I expected with the L700. Not sure I have a use for it, but I kind of want one anyway. No final price, but he estimated $700.


----------



## buzzlulu

There were three guys at the booth and Jack was not the one I spoke to.  The person I spoke with said the amp alone was $2000.

Regardless I have a few questions - however please take into account that I am definitely a Stax newbie who wants to dip my toes in the water.  I remember coming away from CanJam last year thinking the Blue Hawaii/009 was the best I heard and I have not been able to get that demo out of my mind.  Aside from that I do not want to jump in full load as I have done that this past year with a pair of Utopia’s and Z1R’s for closed back.  So the idea of TOTL Stax is not in the cards now.

Keeping in mind that show conditions and limited music selection were not ideal for demo I came away with these impressions after my first limited sessions with the Lamda series yesterday:

The 300 definitely gave me a taste of what Stax can do - a very open airy and FAST sound (my 2 channel is a TOTL Naim system so fast and PRAT are in my DNA) with an out of head experience.

Stepping up to the 500 I definitely heard an improvement - all of the same qualities as the 300 however much more refined, better timber and tonal qualities (less bright and strident) and a more fuller bottom end.

We were finally able to get their 700 over which was on loan at another display booth however I only had a brief few minutes with them.  Based upon that very short listen I did not like them as much as the 500.  I felt the bass was muddy and masked what was going on in the top end.  Things sounded a bit confused and cloudy.

All demo’s were through the 353 Black anniversary which I thought was quite nice - from a performance, form factor and price persepective.

So here is my question to those who are obviously more experienced than I am - I felt the 500 hit the sweet spot  - right in between the 300 and 700 - and due to my quick impressions of the 700’s bass - even if I wanted to spend for them (which I can do) - I think I would still go with the 500.

And now here is the kicker - if the 300’s I listened to were really the Anniversary issue - then I would not choose them. I liked the 500’s better.  I think as a set, Anniversary 300/353 vs. 500/353, the cost is about the same.  If the 300’s that I listened to were instead the regular 300’s than I might consider going blindly into the 300 anniversary as they are supposed to be a cross between the 300/700

Any opinions or advice?


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> Stax could merge the 2 HPs together somehow?


Just try my simple mod, and you'll have a taste of both the 007mk2 & 009. I listened for 4+hrs last night and loved what I was hearing with this mod. The angle of the pads are critical to achieve the right balance, though.

By all means I'm not saying this sounds better than either the 007 or the 009, rather it just sounds nice and different. Again, like a combination of both when adjusted correctly.


----------



## joseph69

buzzlulu said:


> And now here is the kicker - if the 300’s I listened to were really the Anniversary issue - then I would not choose them. I liked the 500’s better. I think as a set, Anniversary 300/353 vs. 500/353, the cost is about the same. If the 300’s that I listened to were instead the regular 300’s than I might consider going blindly into the 300 anniversary as they are supposed to be a cross between the 300/700
> 
> Any opinions or advice?


I've read that the 300 Anniversary use the 700 driver which would explain why you prefer the 500.


----------



## axle_69

This was probably answered before but I couldn't find it quickly.

Does any one know if the mains transformer in the 353X (I guess it should be the same as for the 323s) has a tap for 230 VAC or if it is the same as for 240 VAC. If yes and wires are cut too close what would be the result of operating it at 230-235 VAC instead of 244 VAC, being less than 5 %.


----------



## Whitigir

Does it use 700 drivers or 900 ?


----------



## VandyMan

Whitigir said:


> Does it use 700 drivers or 900 ?



700


----------



## Jones Bob (Feb 18, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> Does it use 700 drivers or 900 ?



Neither, that I can tell from their website.

https://www.staxaudio.com/earspeaker/sr-l300limited

The L300 Anniversary’ stator’s construction are “equivalent” to the L700. No mention of upgraded diaphragms as a feature.


----------



## givemetacos

buzzlulu said:


> There were three guys at the booth and Jack was not the one I spoke to.  The person I spoke with said the amp alone was $2000.
> 
> Regardless I have a few questions - however please take into account that I am definitely a Stax newbie who wants to dip my toes in the water.  I remember coming away from CanJam last year thinking the Blue Hawaii/009 was the best I heard and I have not been able to get that demo out of my mind.  Aside from that I do not want to jump in full load as I have done that this past year with a pair of Utopia’s and Z1R’s for closed back.  So the idea of TOTL Stax is not in the cards now.
> 
> ...



Hmm that's unfortunate they didn't have both the regular L300 and L300 Limited. I've heard all regular L300/L500/L700 and I'm trying to determine where the L300 Limited falls. Your impressions of L700 seems different from mine in that I thought L700 had the best bass extension and was the most detailed and refined of the group. It didn't really feel cloudy at all to me, but I admit that I tend to listen to a lot of warmer headphones so perhaps I am just used to that. I also found the L300 and L500 to sound closer to each other than either of those vs L700. 

What's funny is the way you describe L500 is pretty much what I hoped L300 Limited would improve over regular L300. From that description is also makes it seem like you heard a regular L300 and not the Limited. Sucks that couldn't get confirmation on that while you were there.


----------



## buzzlulu

givemetacos said:


> Sucks that couldn't get confirmation on that while you were there.



I emailed Woo via their web site so let's see if they reply.  I posted the same question on the CanJam impressions thread so hopefully someone will go to their booth and ask


----------



## VandyMan

I asked them and was told it is the same driver as the L700, as I stated above.


----------



## buzzlulu

VandyMan said:


> I asked them and was told it is the same driver as the L700, as I stated above.



And did you listen to it?


----------



## misooooo (Feb 18, 2018)

https://stax.theshop.jp/items/9564837

The Japanese site says the next shipment of L300 LEs will be going out in May. Not sure if this means that there's been a delay, or that the first batch has already shipped. Hoping for the latter.


----------



## VandyMan (Feb 19, 2018)

buzzlulu said:


> And did you listen to it?



I did, but only for a couple of minutes. I was not impressed, but I don't know if it was the headphones or the amp or if I just passed judgement too quickly as the new battery powered amp with an L700 was next to it and calling to me.  It was my first time hearing the L700 and I quite liked it. Did not listen for long enough to form detailed impressions though. The battery powered amp/dac seems very promising to me too.


----------



## givemetacos

We've been discussing the L300 Limited and its appearance at CanJam over at reddit in this thread. To re-confirm it sounds like the L300 Limited (and not regular L300) was indeed at CanJam. For whatever reason, the L700 might not have been around during part of the day(s). It also seems like there was a significant sound difference between L300 Limited, L500, and L700. Also, it appears Staxaudio.com (authorized Stax dealer run by Woo Audio and the booth the Stax gear was at during CanJam) has updated their wording on the features of L300 Limited. It now says this: "The "*MLER" (Multi-Layer Elect Rode) ellipse sound element* is equivalent to Lambda series top model SR-L700." I believe up until last week or so it used to specifically use the wording that L300 limited used the *L700 stators*. But that is gone now. They also removed any wording about using the L500 pads. And at CanJam it was noted that the L300 Limited still used shallow pads that suffers from the same problem of ears touching the inside driver. 

So it seems Stax might not be upgrading the L300 Limited as much as it originally seemed to be. It definitely seem like it will just be a fancier L300, and not really much closer to an L700.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Feb 19, 2018)

givemetacos said:


> We've been discussing the L300 Limited and its appearance at CanJam over at reddit in this thread. To re-confirm it sounds like the L300 Limited (and not regular L300) was indeed at CanJam. For whatever reason, the L700 might not have been around during part of the day(s). It also seems like there was a significant sound difference between L300 Limited, L500, and L700. Also, it appears Staxaudio.com (authorized Stax dealer run by Woo Audio and the booth the Stax gear was at during CanJam) has updated their wording on the features of L300 Limited. It now says this: "The "*MLER" (Multi-Layer Elect Rode) ellipse sound element* is equivalent to Lambda series top model SR-L700." I believe up until last week or so it used to specifically use the wording that L300 limited used the *L700 stators*. But that is gone now. They also removed any wording about using the L500 pads. And at CanJam it was noted that the L300 Limited still used shallow pads that suffers from the same problem of ears touching the inside driver.
> 
> So it seems Stax might not be upgrading the L300 Limited as much as it originally seemed to be. It definitely seem like it will just be a fancier L300, and not really much closer to an L700.



Unless the picture is wrong and not a proper representative of the L300 Limited, the L300 Limited picture on the Woo page and everywhere else unmistakeably shows L500 pads... L300 and L500 pads are thinner than L700 pads, and the L300 pads have no straight sidewall (like Lamda Pros), while the L500 pads do. Ears will still touch on an L500, but not as much as an L300. My ears touch on my ESP950 and its not that big of a deal to me. And likewise on the L300 and L500 I've tried.

It was never stated on the Staxaudio.com site that the L700 stators are the units used with the L300 Limited. Has always been ambiguous on what the stators are used, but is definitelty a derivative of the L700 if not actually L700 stators.


----------



## mariopoli

How dissapointing.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

@JimL11 spotted two new kids in estat amp town  at last Canjam :












https://www.head-fi.org/threads/can...bruary-17-18-2018.872511/page-3#post-14052195

Ali


----------



## misooooo

VRacer-111 said:


> Unless the picture is wrong and not a proper representative of the L300 Limited, the L300 Limited picture on the Woo page and everywhere else unmistakeably shows L500 pads... L300 and L500 pads are thinner than L700 pads, and the L300 pads have no straight sidewall (like Lamda Pros), while the L500 pads do. Ears will still touch on an L500, but not as much as an L300. My ears touch on my ESP950 and its not that big of a deal to me. And likewise on the L300 and L500 I've tried.
> 
> It was never stated on the Staxaudio.com site that the L700 stators were being used with the L300 Limited. Has always been ambiguous on what the stator heritage actually is exactly, definitelty a derivative of the L700 if not one.


Regarding whether the pictures are wrong, I remember reading on the Japanese PDF a little disqualifier that the picture (and even specs, I think) are not guarantees of the final product. So it isn't out of the question that Stax has been changing the model. Also not unheard of for a latestage prototype to be at CanJam.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Feb 19, 2018)

misooooo said:


> Regarding whether the pictures are wrong, I remember reading on the Japanese PDF a little disqualifier that the picture (and even specs, I think) are not guarantees of the final product. So it isn't out of the question that Stax has been changing the model. Also not unheard of for a latestage prototype to be at CanJam.



Understood, and would have been nice if someone took pictures of the L300 Limited at the show... I can't believe there is absolutely no pictures of it from NY CanJam this past weekend...


----------



## givemetacos

VRacer-111 said:


> Unless the picture is wrong and not a proper representative of the L300 Limited, the L300 Limited picture on the Woo page and everywhere else unmistakeably shows L500 pads... L300 and L500 pads are thinner than L700 pads, and the L300 pads have no straight sidewall (like Lamda Pros), while the L500 pads do. Ears will still touch on an L500, but not as much as an L300. My ears touch on my ESP950 and its not that big of a deal to me. And likewise on the L300 and L500 I've tried.
> 
> It was never stated on the Staxaudio.com site that the L700 stators are the units used with the L300 Limited. Has always been ambiguous on what the stators are used, but is definitelty a derivative of the L700 if not actually L700 stators.



I've had that L300 Limited staxaudio page permanently open in my browser for weeks now (and I refreshed it daily secretly wishing for a price reduction haha) and there was definitely a time when it specifically used the wording of L700 stators. I remember this because it sent me in a rabbit hole researching estat stators for many hours. It also used to say L500 pads too. You might be right that the pic is showing L500 pads, but it is strange that they removed that from the features list. This "MLER" phrasing is definitely new because I would have researched that as well. So yeah, I don't know what to think anymore, but wording on that webpage significantly changed since last week.


----------



## misooooo (Feb 19, 2018)

VRacer-111 said:


> Understood, and would have been nice if someone took pictures of the L300 Limited at the show... I can't believe there is absolutely no pictures of it from NY CanJam this past weekend...


Here, although there isn't much to discern from it.https://www.head-fi.org/threads/can...bruary-17-18-2018.872511/page-2#post-14051362


----------



## buzzlulu

givemetacos said:


> We've been discussing the L300 Limited and its appearance at CanJam over at reddit in this thread. To re-confirm it sounds like the L300 Limited (and not regular L300) was indeed at CanJam. For whatever reason, the L700 might not have been around during part of the day(s). It also seems like there was a significant sound difference between L300 Limited, L500, and L700. Also, it appears Staxaudio.com (authorized Stax dealer run by Woo Audio and the booth the Stax gear was at during CanJam) has updated their wording on the features of L300 Limited. It now says this: "The "*MLER" (Multi-Layer Elect Rode) ellipse sound element* is equivalent to Lambda series top model SR-L700." I believe up until last week or so it used to specifically use the wording that L300 limited used the *L700 stators*. But that is gone now. They also removed any wording about using the L500 pads. And at CanJam it was noted that the L300 Limited still used shallow pads that suffers from the same problem of ears touching the inside driver.
> 
> So it seems Stax might not be upgrading the L300 Limited as much as it originally seemed to be. It definitely seem like it will just be a fancier L300, and not really much closer to an L700.




Well Woo emailed back this morning and confirmed that the 300's I demoed were indeed the Anniversary edition.  With that said I stand by comments made in my previous post above #14222
Keep in mind I am a Stax newbie however with some of the later comments concerning the online description of the anniversary edition suddenly changing this past week, and perhaps there not being upgraded components but simply cosmetic changes which differentiate it from a stock 300, then my perception that I liked the 500 better than the 300 anniversary might now have a logical explanation.


----------



## buzzlulu

Well - the mystery deepens.  I just had a telephone conversation with Jack Woo who called me back.  It turns out that there was BOTH a basic 300 and a 300 Anniversary headphone at the booth.  Based on what I heard I think it was the basic 300 and not the Anniversary which the (confused) rep had me listen to.  Mr Woo said that the Anniversary is considerably better than the 500 I liked - and approached the 700 in performance.


----------



## givemetacos (Feb 19, 2018)

buzzlulu said:


> Well Woo emailed back this morning and confirmed that the 300's I demoed were indeed the Anniversary edition.  With that said I stand by comments made in my previous post above #14222
> Keep in mind I am a Stax newbie however with some of the later comments concerning the online description of the anniversary edition suddenly changing this past week, and perhaps there not being upgraded components but simply cosmetic changes which differentiate it from a stock 300, then my perception that I liked the 500 better than the 300 anniversary might now have a logical explanation.



Thanks for the update. I was definitely wishfully thinking that the L300 Limited would magically sound close to L700 so it is good to hear hands-on impressions and temper those unrealistic thoughts. Still really liking the L300's though so I'm not going to complain 

UPDATE: Just read your 2nd post. Dammit this thread is a roller-coaster of emotions. That's actually really intriguing that Woo is now saying the L300 Limited is reaching L700 levels. I wonder if that is just marketing influence or if he really does hear it that way.


----------



## Ojisan

givemetacos said:


> I've had that L300 Limited staxaudio page permanently open in my browser for weeks now (and I refreshed it daily secretly wishing for a price reduction haha) and there was definitely a time when it specifically used the wording of L700 stators. I remember this because it sent me in a rabbit hole researching estat stators for many hours. It also used to say L500 pads too. You might be right that the pic is showing L500 pads, but it is strange that they removed that from the features list. This "MLER" phrasing is definitely new because I would have researched that as well. So yeah, I don't know what to think anymore, but wording on that webpage significantly changed since last week.



The Japanese website and brochure has always indicated MLER Oval (ellipse) sound element. Among L300/500/700, L700 is the only one advertised as using MLER. I'm confused about the "stator" though. Is stator equivalent to electrode or something else?


----------



## Jones Bob

Ojisan said:


> The Japanese website and brochure has always indicated MLER Oval (ellipse) sound element. Among L300/500/700, L700 is the only one advertised as using MLER. I'm confused about the "stator" though. Is stator equivalent to electrode or something else?



Electrode = stator. Different names for the same thing, like valve and tube.


----------



## Ojisan

Jones Bob said:


> Electrode = stator. Different names for the same thing, like valve and tube.



Ahh, thanks!!!


----------



## JayKay47

OK, the Stax website says that the L300LE stator is the equivalent of the L700 fwiw, I don't understand why this is so hard to comprehend. It says so in the features 

https://www.staxaudio.com/earspeaker/sr-l300limited


----------



## JayKay47

JayKay47 said:


> OK, the Stax website says that the L300LE stator is the equivalent of the L700 fwiw, I don't understand why this is so hard to comprehend. It says so in the features
> 
> https://www.staxaudio.com/earspeaker/sr-l300limited


 
So safe to say L300 headband, stator housing, cable, L500 earpad's, L700 stator?


----------



## JayKay47

misooooo said:


> Could mean literally equal...could also mean equal in function for the specific device. Doesn't necessarily mean they're identical, which is the entire point.



No, it is not the point. If you have doubt, stop speculating and second guessing yourself.


----------



## pegasus21

Stators are the 2 external layers in the diagram that Wikipedia has on how an electrostatic driver looks like.

There’s still the diaphragm which is not the same as the L700’s driver.

This is why they claim it is similar and not exactly the same as the L700 driver.


----------



## JayKay47

pegasus21 said:


> Stators are the 2 external layers in the diagram that Wikipedia has on how an electrostatic driver looks like.
> 
> There’s still the diaphragm which is not the same as the L700’s driver.
> 
> This is why they claim it is similar and not exactly the same as the L700 driver.


 Link

Where does it say similar?


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

@pegasus21 That's right! same stators but different diaphragm.


----------



## JayKay47

ToroFiestaSol said:


> @pegasus21 That's right! same stators but different diaphragm.



Where is the link that says similar?


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

JayKay47 said:


> Where is the link that says similar?



Because if both, diaphragm and stator were the same, Stax would say "same driver as L700" and not only "same stators".
It would be nice if someone more knowledgeable could chime in and confirm 100%, but it wouldn't make sense for Stax to say only "same stators" and not "same driver" if both were equal.


----------



## 336881

JayKay47 said:


> Where is the link that says similar?



On the link you provided. It says share not exact same.


----------



## statfi

ToroFiestaSol said:


> @pegasus21 That's right! same stators but different diaphragm.


The site reads today:

The "MLER" (Multi-Layer Elect Rode) ellipse sound element is equivalent to Lambda series top model SR-L700.
The “MLER” is a Stax's exclusive electrode structure that has been completed through the unification of metal plates using heat diffusion combination to attain minimum resonance characteristics.
To me, "sound element" would mean stators and diaphragm, without further qualification.  The 2nd bullet *could be* intended as a statement about a portion of MLER consistent with my reading of the 1st bullet, or as a clarification of what the first bullet means.

In any case, given that there is a layer of translation in there:
1) Is there a Japanese version of this text, and a Japanese reader on this thread, to translate and clarify what this means?  
2) Who are the contributors to this thread who are employees of Stax itself, i.e., not distributors or fans?  
3) Could one of those referred to in 2) give an official answer?

*I* think this is worth clarifying.  *If* "sound element" means all the "layers" from inner to outer stator, Stax is really offering a nice package at an attractive price.


----------



## misooooo

I read the Japanese version, it's almost identical to the English version.

Also contacted Woo to get their take. Jack said " The casing and headband of the L300 Limited are identical to the standard L300, except the gold plaque. The drivers on the Limited is almost identical to the L700 which cost twice more." So the driver as a whole isn't the same.


----------



## AudioThief

givemetacos said:


> We've been discussing the L300 Limited and its appearance at CanJam over at reddit in this thread. To re-confirm it sounds like the L300 Limited (and not regular L300) was indeed at CanJam. For whatever reason, the L700 might not have been around during part of the day(s). It also seems like there was a significant sound difference between L300 Limited, L500, and L700. Also, it appears Staxaudio.com (authorized Stax dealer run by Woo Audio and the booth the Stax gear was at during CanJam) has updated their wording on the features of L300 Limited. It now says this: "The "*MLER" (Multi-Layer Elect Rode) ellipse sound element* is equivalent to Lambda series top model SR-L700." I believe up until last week or so it used to specifically use the wording that L300 limited used the *L700 stators*. But that is gone now. They also removed any wording about using the L500 pads. And at CanJam it was noted that the L300 Limited still used shallow pads that suffers from the same problem of ears touching the inside driver.
> 
> So it seems Stax might not be upgrading the L300 Limited as much as it originally seemed to be. It definitely seem like it will just be a fancier L300, and not really much closer to an L700.



Yeah. Seems like you're paying for the limited edition part and not so much of the sound. I'd like to add that for me L300 has been very comfortable - no issues with pads at all. I'd prefer deeper pads but honestly it has been a non issue for me entirely.


----------



## JayKay47

misooooo said:


> I read the Japanese version, it's almost identical to the English version.
> 
> Also contacted Woo to get their take. Jack said " The casing and headband of the L300 Limited are identical to the standard L300, except the gold plaque. The drivers on the Limited is almost identical to the L700 which cost twice more." So the driver as a whole isn't the same.



So Jack from Woo Audio works for Stax and is part of their engineering team? Ask "Jack" to kindly explain the difference if he know's so much and squash this.


----------



## misooooo

JayKay47 said:


> So Jack from Woo Audio works for Stax and is part of their engineering team? Ask "Jack" to kindly explain the difference if he know's so much and squash this.


Woo is the primary distributor for Stax in NA, and they had the L300L on display at CanJam.

Done responding to your posts, thanks for playing.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol (Feb 19, 2018)

*Woo Audio is a Stax distributor

What is identical (to the regular L300, not the L700, which is what we're talking about) is the casing and the headband.
Please notice the "drivers on the limited is *almost* identical to the L700".


----------



## VRacer-111 (Feb 19, 2018)

AudioThief said:


> Yeah. Seems like you're paying for the limited edition part and not so much of the sound. I'd like to add that for me L300 has been very comfortable - no issues with pads at all. I'd prefer deeper pads but honestly it has been a non issue for me entirely.



I'd say getting a sound experience pretty similar to the L700 (based off the reported listening experience of someone who listened to and compared the L300L and L700 back to back) for half the price is an awesome deal! Limited Edition + very similar sounding to an L700 for 1/2 price = best STAX value currently available in their earspeaker lineup. Say 90-95% of the sound of an L700 for 50% of the cost. I imagine if you swap over to L700 pads on the L300L, it would really make it even closer...


----------



## Jones Bob

STAX probably had a bad production run (1600 units) of L700 stators that didn’t meet spec, and instead of writing them off, recycled them with L300 diaphragms and a gold emblem into becoming the  “Limited” L300 Anniversary Edition. 

Or not.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Feb 19, 2018)

Jones Bob said:


> STAX probably had a bad production run (1600 units) of L700 stators that didn’t meet spec, and instead of writing them off, recycled them with L300 diaphragms and a gold emblem into becoming the  “Limited” L300 Anniversary Edition.
> 
> Or not.



If it can be done with microprocessors, it could be done with STAX driver components or any other stringently specced and hard/critical to produce items that could be separated into 'grades'...as long as its a good product in the end it will be a great value.


----------



## 336881

I have had the pleasure of owning the last 2 lambda series both normal and LE/ Airbow. I would go for it. The 404LE was a significant improvement over the 404 (Spritzer felt the same) and I actually liked the Airbow sr-sc-11 over the sr-507. The cryo treatment was a smoke screen Stax stretched the diaphragms. If I was in the market I would get one. It would be nice to know the whole skinny but I highly doubt we will find that out before they sell out.


----------



## Ojisan

statfi said:


> The site reads today:
> 
> The "MLER" (Multi-Layer Elect Rode) ellipse sound element is equivalent to Lambda series top model SR-L700.
> The “MLER” is a Stax's exclusive electrode structure that has been completed through the unification of metal plates using heat diffusion combination to attain minimum resonance characteristics.
> ...



http://www.stax.co.jp/information/news/news2018-01j.pdf

For the second bullet, the STAX brochure states
- "MLER" stands for Multi-Layer Elect Rode which is a unique electrode structure by STAX. It has a fixed electrode structure to realize ultra-low resonance by integrating the control bridge through heat diffusion bonding. 

Maybe that makes sense to someone.... I'm not a translation expert. I have also made a query to STAX in Japan.


----------



## Jones Bob (Feb 19, 2018)

Ojisan said:


> http://www.stax.co.jp/information/news/news2018-01j.pdf
> 
> For the second bullet, the STAX brochure states
> - "MLER" stands for Multi-Layer Elect Rode which is a unique electrode structure by STAX. It has a fixed electrode structure to realize ultra-low resonance by integrating the control bridge through heat diffusion bonding.
> ...



Basically it means there is more than one material used in making the stators.

Imagine how a tuning fork rings when struck.

Now tightly wrap a rubber band around the prongs. That dampens the ringing.

By bonding a second dampening material with heat to an existing stator, self resonances can be minimized.


----------



## AxelCloris

We've had to do some moderating in the thread because a few of the posts were getting too personal and off topic. Please keep the posts related to STAX's products and not each other. Thank you everyone, we appreciate the assistance.


----------



## joseph69

buzzlulu said:


> Well - the mystery deepens.  I just had a telephone conversation with Jack Woo who called me back.  It turns out that there was BOTH a basic 300 and a 300 Anniversary headphone at the booth.  Based on what I heard I think it was the basic 300 and not the Anniversary which the (confused) rep had me listen to.  Mr Woo said that the Anniversary is considerably better than the 500 I liked - *and approached the 700 in performance.*


So being you think you may have demoed the "basic 300" at the Woo booth you still preferred the 500 over both the 300 the 700, correct? If so, now you'll need to try and demo both the 300/LE before making the choice of going with the 500. What a shame you were misinformed on what you were actually demoing. But, if the 300LE approaches the 700, you just might prefer the 500 anyway.


----------



## Ojisan

Jones Bob said:


> Basically it means there is more than one material used in making the stators.
> 
> Imagine how a tuning fork rings when struck.
> 
> ...



Thanks, that's a helpful analogy. So I guess adding the rigidity and minimizing resonance allows the diaphragm to move more accurately without losing energy to the stator resonance, at least in theory. Curious how that manifest in sound


----------



## buzzlulu

joseph69 said:


> So being you think you may have demoed the "basic 300" at the Woo booth you still preferred the 500 over both the 300 the 700, correct? If so, now you'll need to try and demo both the 300/LE before making the choice of going with the 500. What a shame you were misinformed on what you were actually demoing. But, if the 300LE approaches the 700, you just might prefer the 500 anyway.



Yes - it is a problem and definitely throws a wrench into things if I decide to take the Stax plunge.
I had a telephone conversation with Jack Woo.  He strongly recommended the 300LE over anything else - 500 and 700 ihcluded.

The other problem I have is what to use for a source.  I have decided to separate my headphone system from my two channel system.  Now the headphone system has at it's disposal primarily the Sony Signature series WM1Z Dap and the TA-ZH1ES Dac/Amp.  I also have a Mojo floating around.  I do not believe the Sony TA can function as a stand alone DAC so it cannot be connected to something like the 353 anniversary amp.  More research is needed to determine what the WM1Z Walkman can output.  I know it can output a digital signal however not sure it it can also output an analogue signal which could then be somehow rigged to terminate to RCA for connection to the Stax amp.


----------



## joseph69

Sorry to her of your misfortunes at this point.
Good luck working it out, which I'm sure you will.


----------



## givemetacos

buzzlulu said:


> Yes - it is a problem and definitely throws a wrench into things if I decide to take the Stax plunge.
> I had a telephone conversation with Jack Woo.  He strongly recommended the 300LE over anything else - 500 and 700 ihcluded.
> 
> The other problem I have is what to use for a source.  I have decided to separate my headphone system from my two channel system.  Now the headphone system has at it's disposal primarily the Sony Signature series WM1Z Dap and the TA-ZH1ES Dac/Amp.  I also have a Mojo floating around.  I do not believe the Sony TA can function as a stand alone DAC so it cannot be connected to something like the 353 anniversary amp.  More research is needed to determine what the WM1Z Walkman can output.  I know it can output a digital signal however not sure it it can also output an analogue signal which could then be somehow rigged to terminate to RCA for connection to the Stax amp.



Honestly, if you just want to keep it cheap before going crazy into estats I think the 252S is pretty solid for what it is. It can power all the Lamda series just fine and the Lambda series is known for not being as source dependent as the Omega series. The 252S has been going for $200-250 used so with the L300 Limited you are looking at a pretty awesome system for under $1k. I feel like that would be a great starting package and you could always upgrade energizers later on down the line if you want and I'm sure you wouldn't even take a loss if you were to re-sell the 252S.


----------



## buzzlulu

What kind of DACS are people using to feed intro Stax systems such as a Lambda 300/500/700 and the 353 amplifier?
How are people connecting ROON systems to the 353 amplifier?


----------



## catscratch

I like the Ayre QB-9 DSD with the L700. It has a warmer tone that works great while still being very detailed. Also used a NAD M51 (resolving, a little bright), Neko D100 (midrangey but smooth) and an older Resolution Audio Opus 21 (neutral and very dynamic, but can't keep up with newer stuff on detail).

You don't want to skimp on source when it comes to 'stats. With dynamics, you can, and and you'll save a lot of money in the process. 'Stats are a different ballgame.


----------



## buzzlulu

catscratch said:


> You don't want to skimp on source when it comes to 'stats. With dynamics, you can, and and you'll save a lot of money in the process. 'Stats are a different ballgame.



Hmm... Maybe I need to rethink and connect the amp to my two channel system.  I then can use my Linn LP12 and Klimax DS as sources!!


----------



## arnaud

Wow, so much speculation and misinformation in recent pages, my eyes hurt  .

First, one should not fall too much for the marketing at play (MLER stators = you’re getting sr009 level SQ). While reinforced stators likely helps, my bet on the largest differences in voicing is on a) the ear pads,  b) the diaphragm (thickness , tension) to a much lower extent. As such, if the final product has L300 pads, it’s hard to imagine it will sound similar to the L700.

Second, it’s been implied above that the MLER are composite layup to control damping but I am very doubtful about this. AFAIK, this MLER stator are just layers of the same material joined together by some kind of friction welding process. In terms of benefits, you can get away with thinner stator and/or push stator mechanical resonances to a higher frequency.

Last, woo audio is a dealer for stax, I would take their words with a pinch of salt in regard to engineering of the stax products such as detailed info on how the L300 L.E. stator differs from L700.

cheers,
Arnaud


----------



## 336881

catscratch said:


> You don't want to skimp on source when it comes to 'stats. With dynamics, you can, and and you'll save a lot of money in the process. 'Stats are a different ballgame.



Agreed. The sr-009 really did not separate itself from less expensive headphones (hd800, Lcd-X, 007mk1) until the source was well into 4 figures. In my case that was a Brinkmann Bardo with direct to disc records. Not cheap but I think you can save allot getting a Yamaha gt2000 or Micro Seiki bl-91. If you can deal with used those two record players are close to the Bardo for a fraction the cost... 

Back to the L-300le. I know there has been a bit of a emotional posts to say the least, but man as someone who thinks the Lamda's limited editions are the most underrated headphones out there it is very nice to see such interest finally.  It is way more than time. Too many great enthusiasts do not know what they are missing.


----------



## buzzlulu

arnaud said:


> Wow, so much speculation and misinformation in recent pages, my eyes hurt  .
> 
> First, one should not fall too much for the marketing at play (MLER stators = you’re getting sr009 level SQ). While reinforced stators likely helps, my bet on the largest differences in voicing is on a) the ear pads,  b) the diaphragm (thickness , tension) to a much lower extent. As such, if the final product has L300 pads, it’s hard to imagine it will sound similar to the L700.
> 
> ...



So being new to Stax which dealer, Stateside, is considered to be the most knowledgeable and offers the best customer service when it comes to assistance, repair etc?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Wow.
So much blabbering and speculations about a "mere" Lambda with a stupidly cheap 3-figures price tag compared to whatever the market is doing today.
Get them, like them or dislike them, say your word about them whenever you feel to add ressources on how they sound compared to other Lambdas, keep them or sell them.

Ali


----------



## mulveling

LOL, savage and true!


----------



## walakalulu

No news on a 009 successor then? I thought something was happening this year.


----------



## ahmedie

buzzlulu said:


> There were three guys at the booth and Jack was not the one I spoke to.  The person I spoke with said the amp alone was $2000.
> 
> Regardless I have a few questions - however please take into account that I am definitely a Stax newbie who wants to dip my toes in the water.  I remember coming away from CanJam last year thinking the Blue Hawaii/009 was the best I heard and I have not been able to get that demo out of my mind.  Aside from that I do not want to jump in full load as I have done that this past year with a pair of Utopia’s and Z1R’s for closed back.  So the idea of TOTL Stax is not in the cards now.
> 
> ...



I also have 353x and 323s , L300 & L500 perform much better on the 353x than L700, I agree that L700 sound bad on 353x. L700 will perform much better on 323s or 717 or or tube hybrid or better amps


----------



## wink (Feb 20, 2018)

Oooopsies....


----------



## wink

Jones Bob said:


> STAX probably had a bad production run (1600 units) of L700 stators that didn’t meet spec, and instead of writing them off, recycled them with L300 diaphragms and a gold emblem into becoming the  “Limited” L300 Anniversary Edition.
> 
> Or not.


Or yes..........


----------



## rpeebles

antimatter said:


> Agreed. The sr-009 really did not separate itself from less expensive headphones (hd800, Lcd-X, 007mk1) until the source was well into 4 figures. In my case that was a Brinkmann Bardo with direct to disc records. Not cheap but I think you can save allot getting a Yamaha gt2000 or Micro Seiki bl-91. If you can deal with used those two record players are close to the Bardo for a fraction the cost...
> 
> Back to the L-300le. I know there has been a bit of a emotional posts to say the least, but man as someone who thinks the Lamda's limited editions are the most underrated headphones out there it is very nice to see such interest finally.  It is way more than time. Too many great enthusiasts do not know what they are missing.



Thank You for your contribution. I am about to pull the triger on an L-700 or SR-009 ...but I do not want to need a 4 figure amp to move the latter properly ! Recomendaciones please for a newbie to the Stax World. Thanks !


----------



## 1note

I have the 700 and the 009 and am currently using a modified Stax SRM-007tII with some nice vintage tubes. Fed by an Esoteric K-03X (not cheap and not the best use of funds for a front-end which is soon to be displaced by a Jay's Audio CDT-3 and a Denafrips Terminator), I prefer the 009 in every regard. But if this was to remain my system I could not justify the price differential for the 009. I am waiting on some serious amplification and from what I have read, the 009 should scale up beautifully. So in your case I would recommend the 700.


----------



## buzzlulu

ahmedie said:


> I also have 353x and 323s , L300 & L500 perform much better on the 353x than L700, I agree that L700 sound bad on 353x. L700 will perform much better on 323s or 717 or or tube hybrid or better amps



Thank you for this. I have actually come across some other posts which intimate the same thing.
I guess this logically explains why I was not overly impressed with what I heard from the 700's


----------



## rpeebles

1note said:


> I have the 700 and the 009 and am currently using a modified Stax SRM-007tII with some nice vintage tubes. Fed by an Esoteric K-03X (not cheap and not the best use of funds for a front-end which is soon to be displaced by a Jay's Audio CDT-3 and a Denafrips Terminator), I prefer the 009 in every regard. But if this was to remain my system I could not justify the price differential for the 009. I am waiting on some serious amplification and from what I have read, the 009 should scale up beautifully. So in your case I would recommend the 700.



Thank you for your recommendation. It seems better for newbies to grow by steps, one at a time with solid foundations to make the most & enjoy the most each step  !


----------



## wink

Whatever you get, make sure you like it.
And when you upgrade, make sure you like that better....


----------



## Muffinhead

L700 vs Sr007 mk1. GO!


----------



## VandyMan (Feb 20, 2018)

buzzlulu said:


> Well - the mystery deepens.  I just had a telephone conversation with Jack Woo who called me back.  It turns out that there was BOTH a basic 300 and a 300 Anniversary headphone at the booth.  Based on what I heard I think it was the basic 300 and not the Anniversary which the (confused) rep had me listen to.  Mr Woo said that the Anniversary is considerably better than the 500 I liked - and approached the 700 in performance.



On Saturday afternoon, facing into the room, on the left side: from left to right were the L500, the L300 Anniv., L700 w/ battery amp/DAC, and the T8000 amp (did not notice what was connected to it as it was in use the whole time I was there).

I'm not sure I understand what the big mystery is here. Next time, takes notes.


----------



## VandyMan

VRacer-111 said:


> It was never stated on the Staxaudio.com site that ....



I see on this site that one can finally order 009 replacement parts in the USA. About time!


----------



## buzzlulu

VandyMan said:


> On Saturday afternoon, facing into the room, on the left side: from left to right were the L500, the L300 Anniv., L700 w/ battery amp/DAC, and the T8000 amp (did not notice what was connected to it as it was in use the whole time I was there).
> 
> I'm not sure I understand what the big mystery is here. Next time, takes notes.



Well I was there too and the big mystery was - there were TWO pairs of 300's.
Jack confirmed to me on a telephone call that only ONE was the anniversary edition.  The other was a regular 300.
This was on Saturday - don't know what was going on Sunday


----------



## Whitigir

Back to Stax and it awesome performances.  The trebles are so magically awesome, the soundstage is unreal ! How is this possible ? I don’t know but it is unreal.  I want new headphones from Stax ! My T2 is set up for life....except spare tubes, which I can’t afford atm lol...


----------



## givemetacos

VandyMan said:


> On Saturday afternoon, facing into the room, on the left side: from left to right were the L500, the L300 Anniv., L700 w/ battery amp/DAC, and the T8000 amp (did not notice what was connected to it as it was in use the whole time I was there).
> 
> I'm not sure I understand what the big mystery is here. Next time, takes notes.



From another person's account at CanJam it was stated that people were free to pick up and move the earspeakers to different amps so it doesn't seem like there was a specific station assigned for each one. Also, the Lamba series all look nearly identical without overt markings indicating each model. I can see someone new to Stax not immediately knowing which one they were listening to. 

I also just heard back from Jack at staxaudio (Woo Audio) that the L300 Limited will be coming with L300 earpads, not L500 or anything else. So from a physical standpoint it will be nearly identical to L300 except for the gold badge. Though he is insistent that the Limited will "perform at L700 levels". Coming from a dealer, take that as you will. He also confirmed that the end of February target is still on schedule for the earliest orders and some of the later orders will ship through March, so at least from staxaudio there shouldn't be a May delay or anything like that.


----------



## VRacer-111

Just putting this out there...because there are pad differences between what has been shown for the L300L and the L300...

L300L:





L500 (left) & L300 (right):


----------



## DieHappy

Yes, and if you look at this, for me it looks like L500 Pads:

http://www.sangbe.com/article/236063.html

For me that are never L300 Pads.


----------



## givemetacos

DieHappy said:


> Yes, and if you look at this, for me it looks like L500 Pads:
> 
> http://www.sangbe.com/article/236063.html
> 
> For me that are never L300 Pads.



That link also explicitly says that is a prototype version. And like I said before, there's no mention of L500 pads on any site even though I am fairly certain it used to be listed as such. But that seems to be gone now. Regardless of speculation and photos, Jack Wu is the official US distributor of Stax and literally has the L300L in hand as he did for CanJam. As of this morning I specifically asked him straight up if the L300L will come with L300 or L500 pads and he responded unambiguously it will come with L300 pads (and headband). Perhaps people ordering from other sites or regions might get something different. But if ordering from staxaudio you should absolutely go in knowing you will be getting L300 pads.


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## Pokemonn (Feb 20, 2018)

I just got a telephone from Stax HQ. they are reapiring my 009 arc and pads.

FYI I asked a Stax repairman(I forgot his name sorry) about..
"What is the best source for Stax?"
His answer is "Luxman. Luxman SACDP or DAC, some model are so so but Luxman...they sound blacker background between notes."

Luxman(as source) is the way to go! http://www.luxman-global.com


----------



## AudioThief

Pokemonn said:


> I just got a telephone from Stax HQ. they are reapiring my 009 arc and pads.
> 
> FYI I asked a Stax repairman(I forgot his name sorry) about..
> "What is the best source for Stax?"
> ...



Hm... Should I take your word for it? I have always enjoyed Luxman aesthetics


----------



## Pokemonn (Feb 22, 2018)

AudioThief said:


> Hm... Should I take your word for it? I have always enjoyed Luxman aesthetics



 I believe Stax guy dont lie. costomers good sound/satisfaction increase his repair job. LOL
I am useing Luxman DA-200 DAC w/ shortest(important point for least jitter) USB cable + SRM-007t + SR-007A = sounds "almost" perfect! for classical music. "Pomp and Circumstance Op.39" sound heavenly now if you properly setuped, Luxman sounds like riding Mercedez/Lexus with very nice blond Minesota Lady....


----------



## Whitigir

This is what I am using with upgraded usb module
https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/l-k-s...bu-for-dop-usb-i2s-optical-audio-decoder.html

It is surprisingly good


----------



## buzzlulu

givemetacos said:


> Jack Wu is the official US distributor of Stax and literally has the L300L in hand as he did for CanJam.



Is this true?  Is he now the official US distributor of Stax?


----------



## VandyMan

buzzlulu said:


> Is this true?  Is he now the official US distributor of Stax?



They have been one of several STAX distributors in the USA for years. However, the old staxusa.com (Yama) site is finally gone and the staxaudio.com site says it is maintained by Woo Audio, but copyright STAX LTD, so it seems they now have a closer partnership.


----------



## mulveling (Feb 21, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> This is what I am using with upgraded usb module
> https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/l-k-s...bu-for-dop-usb-i2s-optical-audio-decoder.html
> It is surprisingly good


So you have $1.4k for DAC, 3.8k for headphones and god knows how much (8k -10k+) for the DIY T2, haha. I wanted to reinforce that I think that's actually a wise allocation of funds. With the 007 and 009 Stax headphones, amps make SO much difference that I think they easily defeat the usual diminishing returns rule, as long as you're upgrading to the "right" amp at each step. E.g. Stax 007 / 717 / 727 => KGSShv / KGST => BHSE / Carbon / GroundedGrid => DIY T2. Whereas DACs all sound a LOT more similar to each other, and I know it's possible to find very reasonably priced ones that sound very good. I'm really enjoying my ECP Audio DAC, paid just $600 (used), and I don't miss the Yggdrasil one bit; honestly the sweeter Wolfson 8741 based DAC (delta-sigma, horror of horrors!) with CineMag outputs synergizes better here (009 + BHSE). It does great with the Utopia + Max Balanced too, but of course they're no 009. I'm liking my headphone setup more than ever.


----------



## Pokemonn (Feb 22, 2018)

Luxman DA-200(used) are sold at around cheap 200-500$...


----------



## oktapod (Feb 25, 2018)

[deleted]


----------



## justin w. (Feb 23, 2018)

RPD Ltd. is the new U.S. STAX distributor - not sure they have any interaction with end customers

And then there are dealers


----------



## rpeebles

justin w. said:


> RPD Ltd. is the new U.S. STAX distributor - not sure they have any interaction with end customers
> 
> And then there are dealers



Thanks for the info. Any experience - good or bad - with: 

https://www.headamp.com/

Would they be an official STAX Dealer ?

Appreciate your help...about to pull the trigger ! Thanks.


----------



## arnaud

You do realize you’re asking this question to the owner himself right?


----------



## 1note

rpeebles said:


> Thanks for the info. Any experience - good or bad - with:
> 
> https://www.headamp.com/
> 
> ...



Only the best!


----------



## rpeebles

Ja ja ja...no I did not !!...appreciate an answer...ja, ja, ja...

Allready feel happier seeing you here !


----------



## rpeebles

1note said:


> Only the best!



Thank you for the recommendation...I did pull the trigger...!!


----------



## Whitigir

rpeebles said:


> Thank you for the recommendation...I did pull the trigger...!!


Now u need a proper energizer or amplifier, grab a BHSE while u are at it


----------



## wuwhere

Get some expensive NOS EL34 too for the BHSE.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Feb 23, 2018)

If you have a nice stereo amp I can recommend the Mjolnir Audio modded SRD-7 transformer for electrostats...got mine in last night and listened to it for about 5 hours. Powered from a NAD C275BEE stereo amp it readily outperforms the STAX SRM-323S with my Koss ESP950. I have a pair of used SR-L300 that should be coming in Monday.


----------



## rpeebles

Whitigir said:


> Now u need a proper energizer or amplifier, grab a BHSE while u are at it



Yes...!! So true. Any recommendations for the STAX SR L-700 ?


----------



## TypodCrowd

rpeebles said:


> Yes...!! So true. Any recommendations for the STAX SR L-700 ?



The KGSSHV should be ideal. You could go Carbon if you really want to but HV should be more than enough. I don't like the idea of tubing the lambda series; I think the tubes are better suited to the Omega line, but of course that strictly a subjective analysis. 

I currently run mine off a weakling 252s, but I'm continually modding it for better performance. I know I'll only be able to go so far before I have to fork up >$1k and get something decent but I'm avoiding it for as long as I can since I have to travel frequently (Good amps for stax are pretty heavy).


----------



## givemetacos

VRacer-111 said:


> If you have a nice stereo amp I can recommend the Mjolnir Audio modded SRD-7 transformer for electrostats...got mine in last night and listened to it for about 5 hours. Powered from a NAD C275BEE stereo amp it readily outperforms the STAX SRM-323S with my Koss ESP950. I have a pair of used SR-L300 that should be coming in Monday.



Hah I saw you go after that used L300 in the classifieds. Does that mean you are giving up on the L300 Limited?


----------



## mulveling

Yeah it is subjective. I liked the KGST (tubes) a lot with L700 and 009, but not so much with 007 Mk I. I liked the KGSShv (SS, I'm excluding the warm 450V version and brighter mini version here for simplicity) slightly better than KGST with 009 and a lot better with 007 Mk I, but not as much with L700. I loved the Carbon (SS) with all 3 headphones, but it may get ever so slightly on the bright/aggressive side with L700 in particular (more than it does with 009), and this amp did the most for the 007 Mk I.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Feb 23, 2018)

givemetacos said:


> Hah I saw you go after that used L300 in the classifieds. Does that mean you are giving up on the L300 Limited?



No, already ordered the L300Ls a month ago...do want to really compare the regular L300 modded against the L300L -  I have the Vesper leather/alcantara pads for the ESP950 that I want to experiment with on the L300, making custom 3D printed adapter based off the adapters that are coming with it (one of the reasons why I jumped on them besides the nice price.) Most probably I will resell the L300 after done trying the mod and comparing against the L300L - unless I end up liking the L300 more... But one of them will be going after I try them both out head to head for a while and reach a decision.


----------



## Whitigir

rpeebles said:


> Yes...!! So true. Any recommendations for the STAX SR L-700 ?


I am not familiar with L700, I can not really help you.  However, BHSE is a high-end on the top summit for ES, so I would recommend that.  It will last you for a long long time, until you upgrade to the Legendary T2


----------



## rpeebles

Whitigir said:


> I am not familiar with L700, I can not really help you.  However, BHSE is a high-end on the top summit for ES, so I would recommend that.  It will last you for a long long time, until you upgrade to the Legendary T2



Many Thanks !


----------



## mulveling (Feb 23, 2018)

BHSE is a wonderful match with each of L700, 007, and 009. Hard to go wrong there, unless you had a chance at DIY T2 and blew it (me). I haven't heard DIY T2 with L700, so BHSE stands as the best I've ever heard that headphone (with Carbon and Balanced hev90 close behind; maybe the Grounded Grid is on par with BHSE but I haven't heard it to comment). The DIY T2 is beyond sublime with 009/007/he90, and represents by far the pinnacle of headphone performance in my view. What's shocking is how each of those 3 very different headphones start to sound far more alike than different on the DIY T2...and in each case it's the best you've ever heard it. Very possibly the best headphone amp ever made.


----------



## SeaWo|f

On a more limited budget a modded T1 or modded 006ts would seem to be a good option? IDK if anyone has heard those with the L700.


----------



## VIrak (Feb 24, 2018)

Can any of you guys give me a hand here? 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-srm-1-mk2-100v-to-240v-conversion-is-this-correct.872626/
I didn't want to clutter up the discussion here with such a mundane question, but it seems like the Stax illuminati doesn't bother much with the rest of the forum...


----------



## Sound Eq

can i ask please soundwize how is l300 different than l500 and l700

as its so confusing which one to buy, I heard the l500 and i liked it

I also heard  the signature series 407 and I did not like it as l500, i felt there were passages where the 407 were harsh compared to l500



best wishes


----------



## Whitigir

In the mean while, when people keep talking about 009 being bright, boring, and harsh treble ? I don’t have enough of it, *as in a sense that it can have more, and better*.  So what do I have again ?

1/ KG T2 with all Silver solder and Silver wiring

2/ Stax 009

3/ All Silver Interconnect cables 

4/ LSK 004 DAC that sports Dual ESS Sabres 9038 Pro chips

4/ Silver USB cables 

5/ upgraded power cord !

Now, I used to upgrade my Walkman Cradle docking station to Silver/Gold and used Silver Gold USB cables.  I still can’t get enough of this Sweet, clean, details, crips, extended to infinity trebles.  Very very addictive.

*lastest thing I am doing* Trying to upgrade to Silver materials as much as I can.  Now my Sony Cradle docking station is also carrying Silver inside.  _KG T2 has magic in it.  The letters of “S” and “H” from Female vocal could be very sibilant or harsh, but here it is all just Turned into “air” ! So awesome

_


----------



## Pokemonn (Feb 24, 2018)

but you know T2 is not so affordable for almost people. Lol 
Even Jude-san never heard it.


----------



## Tinkerer

It's not always even about affordability. Just getting stuff to work 100% can be a pain. I remember reading through all the KGSSHV birthing pains and I'm still trying to get my Circlotron online with no problems. It currently runs as a very nice Carbon though.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 24, 2018)

Pokemonn said:


> but you know T2 is not so affordable for almost people. Lol
> Even Jude-san never heard it.



Yeah, I understand.  Hence, I give it the name of a “legendary Unicorn” lol.  _*Point is though, it is not always the headphones, especially when you get to this level of performances*_



Tinkerer said:


> It's not always even about affordability. Just getting stuff to work 100% can be a pain. I remember reading through all the KGSSHV birthing pains and I'm still trying to get my Circlotron online with no problems. It currently runs as a very nice Carbon though.



I agree, and also to get parts for it is another pain.  Your circlotron build is very impressive


----------



## buzzlulu

Sound Eq said:


> can i ask please soundwize how is l300 different than l500 and l700
> 
> as its so confusing which one to buy, I heard the l500 and i liked it
> 
> ...



+1
I demoed the 300/500/700 at CanJam and preferred the 500.  Two caveats:
I have read that the 700 does not do well with the 353 amp and needs something more.  No problem for me as that is the amp I want to start with so I am not considering the 700

The 500 and 300 anniversary cost the same.  I am really considering the 300 anniversary - the problem is I am not sure which 300 I demoed at the show as Woo had both models.  I did not like the one I heard - so I am hoping it was just the plain 300 model.  I quite liked the 500


----------



## Sound Eq

buzzlulu said:


> +1
> I demoed the 300/500/700 at CanJam and preferred the 500.  Two caveats:
> I have read that the 700 does not do well with the 353 amp and needs something more.  No problem for me as that is the amp I want to start with so I am not considering the 700
> 
> The 500 and 300 anniversary cost the same.  I am really considering the 300 anniversary - the problem is I am not sure which 300 I demoed at the show as Woo had both models.  I did not like the one I heard - so I am hoping it was just the plain 300 model.  I quite liked the 500



can you tell what you did not like in the 700 compared to the 500, as this is really important to me as i am about to plug the trigger in buying either the 500 or 700, i thought the 700 is way superior and better sounding


----------



## yakaway

Can anyone direct me to the biasing process for the srm-007tII?


----------



## Pahani

I personally don't put much stock in L700 listening sessions of a few minutes, or even a few days.

JUST SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, my L700 didn't wow me as much as I'd hoped upon first listen. I went back and re-did my comparative listening after 2 weeks with L700 though, and THEN I could fully appreciate them 

I attribute it to brain burn-in on my part. Dunno why, but I just had to get used to them. As always, YMMV, etc.


----------



## Sound Eq

Pahani said:


> I personally don't put much stock in L700 listening sessions of a few minutes, or even a few days.
> 
> JUST SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, my L700 didn't wow me as much as I'd hoped upon first listen. I went back and re-did my comparative listening after 2 weeks with L700 though, and THEN I could fully appreciate them
> 
> I attribute it to brain burn-in on my part. Dunno why, but I just had to get used to them. As always, YMMV, etc.



can u tell me what did not give u great impression at first, what amp were u using. As to me such info is important

can i ask are there many people in this thread that liked L500 more than l700 from initial impressions


----------



## joseph69 (Feb 24, 2018)

Sound Eq said:


> I thought the 700 is way superior and better sounding


Don't take this the wrong way, but if you feel the 700 is superior, why ask anyone what they think? If you feel this way about the 700, then this is what you prefer, so buy it. Never mind what others prefer, because the bottom line is your enjoyment, not theirs. So I say go for it and enjoy!


----------



## 336881

mulveling said:


> So you have $1.4k for DAC, 3.8k for headphones and god knows how much (8k -10k+) for the DIY T2, haha. I wanted to reinforce that I think that's actually a wise allocation of funds. With the 007 and 009 Stax headphones, amps make SO much difference that I think they easily defeat the usual diminishing returns rule, as long as you're upgrading to the "right" amp at each step. E.g. Stax 007 / 717 / 727 => KGSShv / KGST => BHSE / Carbon / GroundedGrid => DIY T2. Whereas DACs all sound a LOT more similar to each other, and I know it's possible to find very reasonably priced ones that sound very good. I'm really enjoying my ECP Audio DAC, paid just $600 (used), and I don't miss the Yggdrasil one bit; honestly the sweeter Wolfson 8741 based DAC (delta-sigma, horror of horrors!) with CineMag outputs synergizes better here (009 + BHSE). It does great with the Utopia + Max Balanced too, but of course they're no 009. I'm liking my headphone setup more than ever.



It is a wise allocation of funds if you are going digital. Analog that is a bad way to go for the 009. You def. want more into the record player or reel to reel than the amp.


----------



## bearFNF (Feb 24, 2018)

Pokemonn said:


> but you know T2 is not so affordable for almost people. Lol
> Even Jude-san never heard it.


Don't forget that Jude has a custom built Frank Cooter amp for his Stax.


----------



## mulveling (Feb 24, 2018)

antimatter said:


> It is a wise allocation of funds if you are going digital. Analog that is a bad way to go for the 009. You def. want more into the record player or reel to reel than the amp.


I totally agree - I meant for my comments to be taken in context of digital sources. At this point I have literally 25 to 30 times as much (at least) into my turntable source vs. all my digital gear. I pretty much run analog only with just speakers, though (just the way it's worked out). But that could change at some point, and the 009 / BHSE would be even more bliss than they are now. And certainly, good reel to reel can render the most amazing analog sound.

With analog, ever little change makes a big audible difference.


----------



## buzzlulu

Pahani said:


> I personally don't put much stock in L700 listening sessions of a few minutes, or even a few days.
> 
> JUST SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, my L700 didn't wow me as much as I'd hoped upon first listen. I went back and re-did my comparative listening after 2 weeks with L700 though, and THEN I could fully appreciate them
> 
> I attribute it to brain burn-in on my part. Dunno why, but I just had to get used to them. As always, YMMV, etc.



Agreed however, at least here Stateside, it is virtually impossible to demo Stax.  Unfortunately I can only comment on what I heard at a brief demo at CanJam, so yes, take all of my comments with a grain of salt.  With that said, since I am considering dipping my toes into the Stax world, the only criteria I have to use, as well as the other poster Sound EQ, is what ever limited demo I (and he) had and a perusing of the inter webs to gather various opinions.

With that said one thing I did come across on the "inter webs" is that the 700 requires a better amp than the 353.  I read that from several different posters.  So if one is considering an intro Stax amp, as I am, than that has some credibility.

At CanJam Woo also had the top of the line Stax solid state amplifier with a 007 or 009 connected to it (I forget which one).  I do know that during my time at the booth there were multiple people who sat down at that demo station and just about everyone came away shaking their head in a negative way - no one I saw was happy with that demo.

Now - a demo of the 009 with Blue Hawaii at the HeadAmp booth - I did that one last year and this year.  No shaking the head there - extremely impressive.


----------



## buzzlulu

Sound Eq said:


> can u tell me what did not give u great impression at first, what amp were u using. As to me such info is important
> 
> can i ask are there many people in this thread that liked L500 more than l700 from initial impressions




Here is what I posted a few pages back #14222

------------
The 300 definitely gave me a taste of what Stax can do - a very open airy and FAST sound (my 2 channel is a TOTL Naim system so fast and PRAT are in my DNA) with an out of head experience.

Stepping up to the 500 I definitely heard an improvement - all of the same qualities as the 300 however much more refined, better timber and tonal qualities (less bright and strident) and a more fuller bottom end.

We were finally able to get their 700 over which was on loan at another display booth however I only had a brief few minutes with them. Based upon that very short listen I did not like them as much as the 500. I felt the bass was muddy and masked what was going on in the top end. Things sounded a bit confused and cloudy.

All demo’s were through the 353 Black anniversary which I thought was quite nice - from a performance, form factor and price persepective.

So here is my question to those who are obviously more experienced than I am - I felt the 500 hit the sweet spot - right in between the 300 and 700 - and due to my quick impressions of the 700’s bass - even if I wanted to spend for them (which I can do) - I think I would still go with the 500.

And now here is the kicker - if the 300’s I listened to were really the Anniversary issue - then I would not choose them. I liked the 500’s better. I think as a set, Anniversary 300/353 vs. 500/353, the cost is about the same. If the 300’s that I listened to were instead the regular 300’s than I might consider going blindly into the 300 anniversary as they are supposed to be a cross between the 300/700
--------------


----------



## Sound Eq (Feb 24, 2018)

as i mentioned before i demoed at a dealer in a quiet room the following with 006ts amp 407, L500, 007 and 009

now for all this talk that i am seeing choosing the right energizer is a must and you must know what ur budget is

for example

009 and 007 with 006ts sucks so much that i could not believe people are paying so much money for those cans
407 and L500 were amzing with 006ts of course l500 was better

now since I do not want to over spend and after reading all this, i think that both 006ts and 353x are not good enough for L700 unless I am mistaken, as L700 was not there to demo

honestly I want a good synergy between the energizer and stax and not keep buying and selling in this stax domain, so i want to get things right from the first time.

Also from reading here I see that many are unhappy with 353x and L700, so my question how is 006ts energizer with L700 is it a great synergy or like 353x and L700

It will be helpful if someone develops a summary of synergy between stax products, at least for the newest releases that can aide as a guide for newbies


----------



## VRacer-111 (Feb 24, 2018)

Guess it all depends on taste, because I liked an SR-009 out of an old SRM-212 (not sure if stock) and Chord Mojo more than an SR-007 MK2 out of a KGSSHV Carbon and Schiit Yggy. Still prefer the L300/L500 Lamdas on the Carbon setup to either of the Omegas. I will say that the Mjolnir reworked SRD-7 transformer powered by an NAD C275BEE stereo amp is noticeably better than the STAX SRM-323S Driver unit. Only thing you lose out on is the separate L/R volume matching ability.


----------



## buzzlulu

Sound Eq said:


> as i mentioned before i demoed at a dealer in a quiet room the following with 006ts amp 407, L500, 007 and 009
> 
> now for all this talk that i am seeing choosing the right energizer is a must and you must know what ur budget is
> 
> ...




Synergy between energizer and headphones makes perfect sense.
For myself I am looking, for now, to simply "dip" my toes into the Stax water.  I already have a TOTL setup (for me) in the Utopia which can be connected to several sources - my two channel Linn DS and a Sony Signature series TA-ZH1ES Dac/Amp.  As such I am not looking to put together a TOTL Stax system - simply get a little taste.

The energizer/heaphone synergy which you mention is why I am considering something like the Anniversary set 300/353.  I think they were made for each other - or at least I hope that was Stax's intentions.  The guys at WOO also seem to say that the 300 Anniversary is better than the 500.


----------



## statfi

antimatter said:


> Analog that is a bad way to go for the 009


FWIW, I strongly disagree, based on using 009s with my BHSE 95% of the time with analog.


----------



## mulveling

statfi said:


> FWIW, I strongly disagree, based on using 009s with my BHSE 95% of the time with analog.


I think he meant: _skimping out with a cheap analog source_ is a bad way to go with an analog-sourced 009 system; not that analog isn't recommended. Skimping out on source is only approved by me with digital (if done right)


----------



## statfi

mulveling said:


> I think he meant: _skimping out with a cheap analog source_ is a bad way to go


I stand corrected.  Profuse apologies.


----------



## JimL11

Sound Eq said:


> as i mentioned before i demoed at a dealer in a quiet room the following with 006ts amp 407, L500, 007 and 009
> 
> now for all this talk that i am seeing choosing the right energizer is a must and you must know what ur budget is
> 
> ...



There is a general consensus that the SRM-T1/006 series, which are all the same circuit design, works well with all the Lambda series phones, up to and including the latest series. Some report the T1 series sounds somewhat better than the newer 006, but I have no personal experience.

An unmodded T1 or 006 doesn't do so well with the 009, or especially the 007, which is more demanding of power. However, as Muffinhead has discovered, a T1 modified with constant current sources (CCS) replacing its plate resistors does a pretty good job driving the 007 (see post #14007, p. 934 of this thread). As far as the other Stax amps, the SRM007 has tube outputs and is handicapped by its use of plate resistors. The SRM717 has sufficient drive for the 007 and 009. The SRM727 has issues due to its lack of overall feedback, but when modded to have overall global feedback is reportedly slightly superior to the 717, although some feel that is has some solid state dryness/harshness. The T8000 is hybrid with tube inputs and much more expensive than the others without much sonic improvement by report. Overall I would probably rate a modded T1, 717, 727 and T8000 in the same broad category, although an individual may prefer one or another depending on their preferred sonic flavor.

Beyond this, we are talking about third party amps.

The Woo GES is a modified Gilmore all-triode design, which doesn't have the drive capability of his other designs, the Woo WES has had varying reviews and is apparently not price-competitive with the Gilmore designs, and the new Woo amp has not had any reviews. The Eddie Current and Ray Samuels amps are no longer being built, and the Viva amp is also too new to have any reviews.

This leaves us with the SRX-Plus, which is my update/mod of a Stax DIY design from the 1980s, and the Kevin Gilmore designs. These include the KGSS, KGSSHV, KGST, KGSS Carbon, Grounded grid (basically a  Carbon with EL34 outputs instead of SiC MOSFET outputs), Blue Hawaii, Megatron, and DIY T2. 

Of these, the KGSS, KGSSHV and KGSS Carbon are all solid state.

The KGST, Grounded Grid, Blue Hawaii and DIY T2 are hybrid with tube outputs (DIY T2 also has tube inputs).

The SRX-Plus and Megatron are basically tube amplifiers but with solid state current sources.

If we sort these into Stereophile-type Classes, the consensus seems to be:

Class A+:  DIY T2

Class A: BHSE, KGSS Carbon, Grounded grid, Megatron

Class B: KGST, KGSSHV, SRX-Plus

Class C: KGSS

Class D: Stax amps.


----------



## Sound Eq (Feb 25, 2018)

JimL11 said:


> There is a general consensus that the SRM-T1/006 series, which are all the same circuit design, works well with all the Lambda series phones, up to and including the latest series. Some report the T1 series sounds somewhat better than the newer 006, but I have no personal experience.
> 
> An unmodded T1 or 006 doesn't do so well with the 009, or especially the 007, which is more demanding of power. However, as Muffinhead has discovered, a T1 modified with constant current sources (CCS) replacing its plate resistors does a pretty good job driving the 007 (see post #14007, p. 934 of this thread). As far as the other Stax amps, the SRM007 has tube outputs and is handicapped by its use of plate resistors. The SRM717 has sufficient drive for the 007 and 009. The SRM727 has issues due to its lack of overall feedback, but when modded to have overall global feedback is reportedly slightly superior to the 717, although some feel that is has some solid state dryness/harshness. The T8000 is hybrid with tube inputs and much more expensive than the others without much sonic improvement by report. Overall I would probably rate a modded T1, 717, 727 and T8000 in the same broad category, although an individual may prefer one or another depending on their preferred sonic flavor.
> 
> ...




Thanks for this great detailed reply.

On a total different note what is this new battery powered amp by stax, and which of the lambda series will it be all drive to satisfactory levels. Any mentioning of its price? When is release date?

Also on another note, so does just changing the pads on L300 with L500 pads make the L300 sound like L500, or is this an exaggeration ?


----------



## Pokemonn (Feb 25, 2018)

but you know(again? Lol) Even Jude-san listen to Loudspeakers(KEF LS50=about 1000$) when he can. not to Stax. me too. since KEF LS50 is jude-san's recommendation.

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/hi...ethan-opolion-of-canjam-global-part-2/?page=3

https://www.head-fi.org/articles/head-fi-buying-guide-desktop-portable-speakers.17580/


----------



## AudioThief

Pokemonn said:


> but you know(again? Lol) Even Jude-san listen to Loudspeakers(KEF LS50=about 1000$) when he can. not to Stax. me too...
> 
> http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/hi...ethan-opolion-of-canjam-global-part-2/?page=3




Why even get into high end headphones if a pair of 1000$ active speakers + dac to your ears beats out the TOTL headphones? lol


----------



## Pokemonn (Feb 25, 2018)

AudioThief said:


> Why even get into high end headphones if a pair of 1000$ active speakers + dac to your ears beats out the TOTL headphones? lol


maybe i am a masochist...LOL!


----------



## oktapod

Short update as I haven’t been here in a while. Earlier this week, after some deliberation, I pulled the trigger on a pair of 007 mk1s, which will come (as a package) with a T1 amp as well.

My hope - as I haven’t been able to hear the mk1s yet - is that they will improve on the sound I get from my L700 and 006T, at least at the modest to moderate levels I listen at. I will likely sell on the T1 or 006T (depending on which one sounds best) and the L700s, and put the combined funds towards a KGSSHV Mini from Mjolnir (I’ve been in talks  ).

Has anyone compared the L700 to the 007 mk1 out of either the T1 or the 006T? How’d that work out? I’m hoping that it won’t be a retrograde step, although I’m confident that the 007s with the KGSSHV Mini will be a better ‘end game’ setup than would the L700 and KGSSHV Mini.

Thanks!


----------



## Pokemonn (Feb 25, 2018)

oktapod said:


> Short update as I haven’t been here in a while. Earlier this week, after some deliberation, I pulled the trigger on a pair of 007 mk1s, which will come (as a package) with a T1 amp as well.
> 
> My hope - as I haven’t been able to hear the mk1s yet - is that they will improve on the sound I get from my L700 and 006T, at least at the modest to moderate levels I listen at. I will likely sell on the T1 or 006T (depending on which one sounds best) and the L700s, and put the combined funds towards a KGSSHV Mini from Mjolnir (I’ve been in talks  ).
> 
> ...



L700 out of 006tA is very good. 007mk1 out of 006tA is no no. it will sound very soft. but somepeople prefer it for BGM listening.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

JimL11 said:


> Class A+:  DIY T2
> 
> Class A: BHSE, KGSS Carbon, Grounded grid, Megatron
> 
> ...









Ali


----------



## Pahani

buzzlulu said:


> Agreed however, at least here Stateside, it is virtually impossible to demo Stax.  Unfortunately I can only comment on what I heard at a brief demo at CanJam, so yes, take all of my comments with a grain of salt.  With that said, since I am considering dipping my toes into the Stax world, the only criteria I have to use, as well as the other poster Sound EQ, is what ever limited demo I (and he) had and a perusing of the inter webs to gather various opinions.
> 
> With that said one thing I did come across on the "inter webs" is that the 700 requires a better amp than the 353.  I read that from several different posters.  So if one is considering an intro Stax amp, as I am, than that has some credibility.
> 
> ...



Well, my opinion would be that the best amp YOU can afford is the best amp for your Stax. In my case, 353X is the most I'm likely to ever spend, so that is what I purchased. I would have LOVED to do Jim's SRX-Plus build for probably about the same cost, but I've never picked up a soldering iron in my life 

I only have experience with 2 Stax headphones (SR-207 and L700), and 3 Stax amps (252S, SRM-1/Mk2 Pro, and 353X). And that's because I own them all, as like you, I have zero chance to audition anywhere near me. More than that, no meets I can travel to either. Sucks to work weekends 

I can say that both 207 and L700 benefit to my ears as you climb the bottom 3 rungs of the amp ladder. I have no illusions that my 3 energisers *aren't* the bottom 3 rungs. And you know what? I'm completely happy with my experience 

I took a hard look at my finances, and didn't see myself ever purchasing 007 or 009 (only talking about the phones themselves here). That restricted me to the Lambda series, and I took a leap of faith on L700 when I found the right "barely used" deal. Money talks, and I'm a sucker for a good price!

I then had to ask myself what the most I would be willing to spend on an amp was, and the answer was 353X. So you see, I'm happy because I already have my endgame setup! I actually have pretty much stopped even looking, though of course I still read and chat here. If money was no object........then hell yes, sign me up for 009 and DIY T2  But money *IS* an object, and in my case, an immovable object.

I postulate that my current L700/353X setup is better than what 99% of the world's population will hear in their lifetime. Better Stax systems cut further into that final 1%, but for myself I have found my stopping point and I've switched focus to my home theater ATM. I humbly submit that the $5K I just spent on subwoofers give me greater overall enjoyment than the step up to a $5K Stax amp (from my current setup) would. And I have to add that my headphone rig and home theater are independent systems in different rooms. One has to make choices!


----------



## Whitigir

KG T2 and 009 ain’t gonna be competed with by any cheap loud speakers system, unless expensive high-end


----------



## zolkis (Feb 25, 2018)

AudioThief said:


> Why even get into high end headphones if a pair of 1000$ active speakers + dac to your ears beats out the TOTL headphones? lol



Apples vs oranges. Define "beat", and specify the music you have tested with .

Of course it is not mandatory to get high end headphones. The "why" is always a good question .

I have [had] active speakers (Linn, Dynaudio and Genelec), passive speakers, built speakers, I am a speakers guy, mainly for the sound stage and realistic physical impact, but I am totally sold on good headphones. Not only for convenience, but presentation, too. For instrumental music, personally I have not heard sound quality anything near to my best headphone setup, not even from systems (speakers, cables, amps, sources, room treatment) costing in the high 6 to low 7 figures. That is 3 orders of magnitude difference.


----------



## Pokemonn

anyway for both loudspaker and/or headphone, this hobby can be endless...I'm not sure if it's good or bad...Lol


----------



## SeaWo|f

oktapod said:


> Short update as I haven’t been here in a while. Earlier this week, after some deliberation, I pulled the trigger on a pair of 007 mk1s, which will come (as a package) with a T1 amp as well.
> 
> My hope - as I haven’t been able to hear the mk1s yet - is that they will improve on the sound I get from my L700 and 006T, at least at the modest to moderate levels I listen at. I will likely sell on the T1 or 006T (depending on which one sounds best) and the L700s, and put the combined funds towards a KGSSHV Mini from Mjolnir (I’ve been in talks  ).
> 
> ...



I think you will really like the 007 when you get them properly powered. I have never heard them on anything other than a BHSE from which they are fantastic. I have seen a number of people make first hand comments about their sound out of a stock T1/006ts and while the details often conflict the theme is always the same, very disappointing.

   Don't let what you hear from your current setup color your opinion of the 007 too much, if you can get the kgsshv before you have to sell either of the headphones that would be the way to go. While the consensus is that 007 is the superior headphone, the consensus also says the these two headphones sound quite different. Because of this I think running them side by side on a good amp is needed. who knows maybe aspects of the L700 sound continue to draw you in more.


----------



## 336881

Pokemonn said:


> anyway for both loudspaker and/or headphone, this hobby can be endless...I'm not sure if it's good or bad...Lol



Both. Good because you have endless options. Bad because your journey is going to be a long one. While there are many electrostatic headphones to choose from electrostatic energizer's are sort of few and far between. But then you can get into tubes which can be quite the rabbit hole imo.


----------



## Whitigir

Life is a rabbit hole itself.  Music gives it soul! Mwahahaha


----------



## buzzlulu

I see that every Mjolnir amplifier only provides for balanced XLR inputs.  Entry level Stax amps such as the 353 provide for RCA inputs.
Do the majority of Stax users to balanced out from their DAC's to their energizers?  Is using RCA out from the DAC a no no?  And if so what DAC'S are people using as many do not have balanced out options


----------



## wuwhere

I have an Exogal Comet, it has a balance out. I also have an Oppo 95 that has balance out. You can get a female RCA to male XLR adapter.


----------



## Sound Eq

wuwhere said:


> I have an Exogal Comet, it has a balance out. I also have an Oppo 95 that has balance out. You can get a female RCA to male XLR adapter.




can you please one frm ebay

how can connect mojo in that way


----------



## wuwhere

Sound Eq said:


> can you please one frm ebay
> 
> how can connect mojo in that way



https://www.ebay.com/itm/JZ-Zinc-Al...748879?hash=item3628ae59cf:g:B6EAAOSwUCRZgMg2


----------



## Sound Eq

wuwhere said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/JZ-Zinc-Al...748879?hash=item3628ae59cf:g:B6EAAOSwUCRZgMg2



so i can use this with 3.5 mm --rca cable into the energizer


----------



## wuwhere

If you have extra cash, you can go Cardas.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cardas-Aud...194835?hash=item2ef8a71413:g:P3sAAOSw2xRYZrzM


----------



## wuwhere

Sound Eq said:


> so i can use this with 3.5 mm --rca cable into the energizer



Which one?


----------



## buzzlulu

Ok on a solution such as a Cardas adapter however, in this case,  it is not a true balanced input.

Is part of the Stax "ethic" to use balanced inputs - or it does not matter?

For something like a Headamp GSX only half the amp's potential is used if not run with balanced inputs


----------



## Sound Eq

wuwhere said:


> Which one?



mojo to 006ts


----------



## wuwhere

You can also use a cable like this.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Seismic-Au...131342054739?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10


----------



## wuwhere

Sound Eq said:


> mojo to 006ts



It should work.


----------



## Sound Eq

wuwhere said:


> It should work.




any good cable 3.5 mm to rac cable for mojo to fit the cable u linked


----------



## wuwhere

Sound Eq said:


> any good cable 3.5 mm to rac cable for mojo to fit the cable u linked



You can make one, not hard. Simple soldering. Just buy the parts.


----------



## wuwhere

Sound Eq said:


> any good cable 3.5 mm to rac cable for mojo to fit the cable u linked



https://www.ebay.com/itm/2PACK-6ft-...m=302422886018&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


----------



## Sound Eq

wuwhere said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2PACK-6ft-foot-1-4-TRS-plug-to-3pin-XLR-male-shielded-balanced-audio-cable-cord/302422886018?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIM.MBE&ao=2&asc=49923&meid=1ee1396c419e4a1db1b03f41a1019397&pid=100005&rk=5&rkt=6&mehot=pp&sd=361183427773&itm=302422886018&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851



is that a better way way to connect mojo to 006ts that using rca into 006ts


----------



## wuwhere

Sound Eq said:


> is that a better way way to connect mojo to 006ts that using rca into 006ts



If I were you, I'd go MRCA to MXLR.


----------



## wuwhere

Sound Eq said:


> is that a better way way to connect mojo to 006ts that using rca into 006ts



You have two volume control here, the Mojo and the amp. I'm not sure what the max output voltage is on the Mojo. You can overdrive the 006ts input. So its safe to max the 006ts volume and control the volume from the Mojo.


----------



## Sound Eq

wuwhere said:


> If I were you, I'd go MRCA to MXLR.



https://www.amazon.com/Cardas-Audio-Male-Adapters-MRCA-MXLR/dp/B00VMVJ6K6

soo


wuwhere said:


> If I were you, I'd go MRCA to MXLR.



so i need just one cable form mojo to 006ts or 2


----------



## wuwhere

One pair.


----------



## wuwhere

Sound Eq said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Cardas-Audio-Male-Adapters-MRCA-MXLR/dp/B00VMVJ6K6
> 
> I like Cardas cable, I'm using a 1/2m balance Golden Presence from my DAC to my KGST.


----------



## labrat

Sound Eq said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Cardas-Audio-Male-Adapters-MRCA-MXLR/dp/B00VMVJ6K6
> 
> soo
> 
> ...



You need one cable from Mojo to Stax SRM-006TS, one like this:






http://www.vesalia.de/pic/35mm2xrca5m.jpg

You can find better looking cables, more expensive models, but this is what you need!
All this BS presented here is laughable!
Do you really think using galvanic (mechanic) adapters between a single ended output to XLR input will improve the sound, over using a straight connection from the single ended 3.5mm output to the RCA inputs ?


----------



## SeaWo|f

I also thought depending on the dac/amp combo using an rca to xlr could be risky?


----------



## mulveling (Feb 25, 2018)

AudioThief said:


> Why even get into high end headphones if a pair of 1000$ active speakers + dac to your ears beats out the TOTL headphones? lol



Because that’s BS. I sure as hell wouldn’t want to listen to monitors over a Stax/BHSE


----------



## wuwhere (Feb 25, 2018)

SeaWo|f said:


> I also thought depending on the dac/amp combo using an rca to xlr could be risky?



What's risky about it? Even Spritzer said one can use an RCA to XLR adapter for his amp without any problem. The negative and ground of the xlr are tied together at the RCA sleeve.


----------



## Sound Eq

wuwhere said:


> What's risky about it? Even Spritzer said one can use an RCA to XLR adapter for his amp without any problem.



i don't mind risky if one can tell me there is a benefit using that


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 25, 2018)

No need to connect shield at the RCA end.  You can just leave it there covered up.  The deflected interferences will be drained by the XLR properly and minimize noises to get to the RCA end.

What is the point ? Not sure.  But if you need to feed your XLR 3 amplifier from a single ended source that utilizes RCA, then it is an option


----------



## givemetacos

Pahani said:


> Well, my opinion would be that the best amp YOU can afford is the best amp for your Stax. In my case, 353X is the most I'm likely to ever spend, so that is what I purchased. I would have LOVED to do Jim's SRX-Plus build for probably about the same cost, but I've never picked up a soldering iron in my life
> 
> I only have experience with 2 Stax headphones (SR-207 and L700), and 3 Stax amps (252S, SRM-1/Mk2 Pro, and 353X). And that's because I own them all, as like you, I have zero chance to audition anywhere near me. More than that, no meets I can travel to either. Sucks to work weekends
> 
> ...



Can you compare how the 3 different energizers affect the L700? I'm considering going for the L300 Limited (and theoretically should be close to the L700), and I'm curious how much benefit there is in going from a 252S to and SRM-1/Mk2 or 353X?


----------



## wuwhere

Sound Eq said:


> i don't mind risky if one can tell me there is a benefit using that



No benefit. If your DAC has no XLR out then you need an adapter to connect to Mjolnir amps.


----------



## 1note

yakaway said:


> Can anyone direct me to the biasing process for the srm-007tII?



+1, thanks.


----------



## SeaWo|f

wuwhere said:


> What's risky about it? Even Spritzer said one can use an RCA to XLR adapter for his amp without any problem. The negative and ground of the xlr are tied together at the RCA sleeve.



That is why I put it in the form of a question. I had been told that but I did not understand why there would be an issue. So the clarification is helpful, thanks.


----------



## JimL11

yakaway said:


> Can anyone direct me to the biasing process for the srm-007tII?



AFAIK there isn't a published biasing process for the SRM-007, however the biasing for the T1/006 series is similar, see thread here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tube-change-biasing-a-stax-006t-ii.415385/

IIRC, TVR1 adjusts the voltages between the + and - outputs for each channel, and the voltage probes should be inserted between the + and - outputs of either channel and adjusted to close to zero as possible.

TVR2 adjusts the voltages of the outputs to be close to zero volts with respect to ground - one voltage probe should be inserted into either th + or - output of a channel, and the other voltage probe should be connected to chassis ground.

The 007 has two additional adjustment pots, TVR3 and TVR4 - they adjust the plate voltages for the two sections of each 6CG7/6FQ7 to be equal to each other. Connect a voltmeter between both TP1 points or both TP2 points and adjust TVR3 and TVR4 so that the voltage between the two is zero.

There will be some thermal drift as the amp warms up, and there will also be some change between the voltage with the cover on and the cover off. For the T1, Stax specifies within +/-15 volts of zero as acceptable.


----------



## Whitigir

SeaWo|f said:


> That is why I put it in the form of a question. I had been told that but I did not understand why there would be an issue. So the clarification is helpful, thanks.


The issue may happen when you use a balanced output into a single ended input.  _Rule of thumbs is to only do single ended out and split into balanced in, and not balanced out to joined into single ended in . That is why this is only useful when you have a DAC that has only RCA output and you need to feed a balanced XLR amplifier _


----------



## hfhimeka

Not sure if this is still a relevant issue for recent hardware, but Japan uses XLR pin 2 for hot and pin 3 for cold, while some older XLR equipment in USA might still use pin 2 for cold and pin 3 for hot signal.  You might run into some issues if you end up grounding the wrong signal when going XLR -> RCA.


----------



## VRacer-111

Man am I liking the Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 and NAD C275BEE combo more and more as I'm getting more acquainted with it. Just been listening to Pendulum 'Hold Your Colour' album, and am astonished at the detail and dynamics it has coming out of the ESP950... that is one album which really lets you know how good your gear is - album quality scales with your equipment - doesn't sound good out of a stock Denon AH-D2000 straight from an older iPod, sounds REALLY good from a modded TH-X00PH out of Gustard X20U DAC and modded H10 amp, and EXTREMELY good out of the ESP950 from Gustard X20U DAC and Mjolnir Audio SRD-7/ NAD C275BEE combo. I have the used SR-L300 coming in tomorrow so I can finally have a direct comparison to the ESP950.


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

Hello people of Stax land, I have a question about electrostats but more specifically STAX type. As the diaphragm is coated along with the general fragility of the product to the enviromental woes of the world I was wondering how long I can expect a good STAX rig to last. Like say do the Lambdas have a better lifespan than the SR009 and Omega-2? And is it worn down by using it or does letting it lay dormant cause more damage? And by using I mean within conventional listening levels like no higher than 80DB and used everyday being treated proper as in on a stand with dust cover while not is use. I really want to get a TOTL SR-009 rig but the lifespan has worried me with the one year warrenty along with the reports of electrostats developing imbalances down the line even while being treated well. Anyhelp is appreciated, thankyou!


----------



## Whitigir

Just like everything else.  If you care for it well it enough, it will return you just the favor.  Yet, there are people that reporting issues, but it is the very few of the minor, and there are people that has it for 10 years + without issues for the majority number.  How old is the Omega now ? And how much is it running for now ? That should be more appropriate questions


----------



## weasel1979

Hi, has anyone compared an SR- 007 (with the right amp) with the Hifiman Susvara? I keep reading it has an electrostatic feel to it so a comparison would be useful. Also, I am considering going BHSE or Carbon, which makes these two sets belong in a similar price category..


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 26, 2018)

weasel1979 said:


> Hi, has anyone compared an SR- 007 (with the right amp) with the Hifiman Susvara? I keep reading it has an electrostatic feel to it so a comparison would be useful. Also, I am considering going BHSE or Carbon, which makes these two sets belong in a similar price category..



009/007 with the _*right amps such as KG Carbon/GG/T2*_ are hard to compete.  You can try and PM the Dr. yourself, and requests for such comparisons, but honest and direct comparisons won’t be seen.  I doubt it ! Biased comparisons ? Sure, but you won’t see many of it either.  There are *prides*, and *Shills, but both, don’t go together *


----------



## yakaway

JimL11 said:


> AFAIK there isn't a published biasing process for the SRM-007, however the biasing for the T1/006 series is similar, see thread here:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tube-change-biasing-a-stax-006t-ii.415385/
> 
> ...


----------



## yakaway

JimL11 said:


> AFAIK there isn't a published biasing process for the SRM-007, however the biasing for the T1/006 series is similar, see thread here:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tube-change-biasing-a-stax-006t-ii.415385/
> 
> ...




Does anyone have pics or a description of where tp1 ans tp2 are in the smr-007tII.

I understand thats where the multimeter goes to adjust tvr3 and tvr 4, but there ia no comprehenaive guide for this amp, so the bias setup has become frustrating for newbies


----------



## 1note

yakaway said:


> Does anyone have pics or a description of where tp1 ans tp2 are in the smr-007tII.
> 
> I understand thats where the multimeter goes to adjust tvr3 and tvr 4, but there ia no comprehenaive guide for this amp, so the bias setup has become frustrating for newbies



I have just worked all of this out for myself, I think, with the help of JimL11's post and the thread he has referenced.  Many thanks Jim.  Have you looked at the thread Jim has hyperlinked?  Go to page 2 and take a look at ColoradoTom's post #20 in the thread.  That plus Jim's post i think explains all.  Here is a picture from that post which I find most useful.  And the 4 trim pots for the Left channel and the 4 for the right channel are clearly referenced on the 007tII circuit board.  Hope this helps.


----------



## hpeter

bearFNF said:


> Don't forget that Jude has a custom built Frank Cooter amp for his Stax.


 i see quite good tubes over there


----------



## JimL11

AwzemCoffee said:


> Hello people of Stax land, I have a question about electrostats but more specifically STAX type. As the diaphragm is coated along with the general fragility of the product to the enviromental woes of the world I was wondering how long I can expect a good STAX rig to last. Like say do the Lambdas have a better lifespan than the SR009 and Omega-2? And is it worn down by using it or does letting it lay dormant cause more damage? And by using I mean within conventional listening levels like no higher than 80DB and used everyday being treated proper as in on a stand with dust cover while not is use. I really want to get a TOTL SR-009 rig but the lifespan has worried me with the one year warrenty along with the reports of electrostats developing imbalances down the line even while being treated well. Anyhelp is appreciated, thankyou!



As long as you take good care of it, it will last a long time. I have a pair of SR5 headphones that I bought in the early 1980s that I use occasionally still sound fine. Stax has been building these for a long, long time.


----------



## JimL11 (Feb 26, 2018)

yakaway said:


> Does anyone have pics or a description of where tp1 ans tp2 are in the smr-007tII.
> 
> I understand thats where the multimeter goes to adjust tvr3 and tvr 4, but there ia no comprehenaive guide for this amp, so the bias setup has become frustrating for newbies



Obviously, you haven't opened up the amp - TVR1-4, and TP1-2 are all clearly labelled on the circuit board. Or do a Google search for Stax SRM007 internals and you'll see a picture of the circuit board.


----------



## yakaway

I have the trv 1 and 2 close to zero for both channels.

When placing the multimeter on tp1 and 2, this is where i run into problems . Im getting voltage even through all of the screws are turned to where they can not be turned anymore. Is the voltage suppose to be zero here as well? What do these things do (tp1 and 2) anyway?

Jim, some of us just aren't as smart as you or dont have experience with high voltage electrical equipment. 
Youre welcome to make constructive comments, but no need to be condescending. 

I'm brand new to the hobby, have absolutely no experience with these things and comments like that are offputting.

If you found an image of the srm 007tIIs internals that you want to share l, then that would be appreciated. I'm not the only one whom is looking for direction with biasing this thing, so thanks.


----------



## JimL11 (Feb 26, 2018)

Image found by Googling "SRM007 internals." So, as you can see, TVR3 and 4 are located right next to the output tubes, and just a bit closer to them are TP1 and TP2. You have to connect one voltage meter probe to one point of TP1 and the other probe to the other point of TP1. In other words you are measuring the voltage between the two points of TP1. Then do the same thing with TP2. If you can't get the voltage to zero then you probably need to replace the tube, since what you are doing with this step is adjusting the plate voltages of each section of the tube to be equal to each other.


----------



## Whitigir

yakaway said:


> I have the trv 1 and 2 close to zero for both channels.
> 
> When placing the multimeter on tp1 and 2, this is where i run into problems . Im getting voltage even through all of the screws are turned to where they can not be turned anymore. Is the voltage suppose to be zero here as well? What do these things do (tp1 and 2) anyway?
> 
> ...




First word of advices.....please don’t kill yourself, high voltage is not something to fool around with


----------



## Pokemonn (Mar 1, 2018)

mulveling said:


> Because that’s BS. I sure as hell wouldn’t want to listen to monitors over a Stax/BHSE



Thats not BS at all. current Stax lineups sounds slightly NO SOUL harsh cold lifeless especially WITHOUT Schiit Loki Mini compare to KEF LS50 IMO.
Stax amps have been really bother me. Lol
http://www.schiit.com/products/loki
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-audio-loki-mini-four-band-equalizer-head-fi-tv.861331/


----------



## Muffinhead

yakaway said:


> I have the trv 1 and 2 close to zero for both channels.
> 
> When placing the multimeter on tp1 and 2, this is where i run into problems . Im getting voltage even through all of the screws are turned to where they can not be turned anymore. Is the voltage suppose to be zero here as well? What do these things do (tp1 and 2) anyway?
> 
> ...


A little knowledge about the most dangerous components of an amplifier goes a long way. As for the biasing, I've only biased the T1, so IDK if the internals are similar. But I never was turning the adjustment pots all the way. I was doing very fine adjustments while looking at the multimeter while its leads were put into thr output sockets. Chances are you're cranking the adjustment pots all the way which isn't going to get you anywhere close to where you need to be.


----------



## kevin gilmore (Feb 26, 2018)

if tvr1 is all the way to one side or the other parts including R13,R14,Z1,Z2 may burn up.
Put all pots in the middle and start again.

Note: the way the srm-007t works is different from the tA and tII
On the 007t tvr3 and tvr4 should be set to 200 ohms (500 ohm pot). on the tA and TII it should be set in the middle. (2k pot)

Repeat the following a few times over 30 minutes
Then put a voltmeter between TP1 and TP2 and adjust TVR1 for zero
(if you have to turn tvr1 more than .25 turn in either direction, stop and get new tubes)
Then put a voltmeter between either TP1 or TP2 and Ground and adjust TVR2 for zero
Then put a voltmeter between both TP1 and adjust TVR3 to zero
Then put a voltmeter between both TP2 and adjust TVR4 to zero
end repeat

If you can't get the last 2 to zero, then get better tubes. Seriously just because someone sold you some expensive NOS tubes that they said were matched...


----------



## yakaway

Re: biasing stax srm-007tII

The right trv3 reads 045 on the (2000mV) indicator of the multimeter. This is with the screw turned all of the way. Is an acceptable value?

Everything else reads zero! Here's to small wins.

I'm about to take this thing to the shooting range.   I put the stock russian tubes back in and did the biasing. I think that's the best i can do.

If this is no good, I guess I'm buying blue hawaii 

Thoughts?


----------



## JimL11

yakaway said:


> Re: biasing stax srm-007tII
> 
> The right trv3 reads 045 on the (2000mV) indicator of the multimeter. This is with the screw turned all of the way. Is an acceptable value?
> 
> ...



That is fine for now, however if you had to turn TRV3 all the way, it sounds like that tube is marginal as there is no adjustment range left. BTW, sorry about my previous post, must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed.


----------



## Whitigir

yakaway said:


> Re: biasing stax srm-007tII
> 
> 
> If this is no good, I guess *I'm buying blue hawaii*
> ...



I totally recommend this


----------



## SeaWo|f

I second that recommendation.


----------



## yakaway

Not a problem at all Jim. I apologize for being so naive about all of this. I never considered this as a hobby until very recently. The learning curve is astronomical, but I find it enjoyable nonetheless. 

I have so many questions as a newbie and I greatly appreciate those who take the time to offer their insight. 


For one, with the SRM-007tII I get crosstalk between the inputs. Meaning, if I turn the volume up very high and am listening to channel two, I will hear the sound on input 1. Is this normal with such an amp? Is this a grounding issue? While it should not be a big deal, I am surprised to hear it. 

Also, can anyone compare/contrast this bass when upgrading from say the 007tII to a BHSE or something on that level? I feel like I’m hearing wonderful mids and highs with the 009s, and great separation. I hear all of the instruments with great detail, but I find the bass lacking. I’m aware that the 007s may offer more bass, but currently I own 009s and plan to stick with them for quite a while. 

Lastly, is there a technical way to balance the left and right channels or do you just rely on your ears for what sounds good? There is a knob in addition to the volume knob on the right of this amp for controlling the balance. I turn it all the way to the left and the volume is loud on the left. I turn it all the way to the right and it is certainly not as loud in the right when compared to the left. 

I find this frustrating, but I’m not sure much is to blame on the amp, my lack of technical know-how, or the headphones. 

Helpful and positive comments area greatly appreciated.


----------



## SeaWo|f

While I have had limited listening time with the 009 out of the bhse I did not find the bass lacking. I however did not listen to anything bass heavy like edm. It felt right for the rock/pop I put through it.

I have read some subjective impressions that with the 009 a carbon gives more impact vs a bhse. Idk if anyone who has experience with both could give their thoughts.


----------



## kevin gilmore

The right trv3 reads 045 on the (2000mV) indicator of the multimeter. This is with the screw turned all of the way. Is an acceptable value?

No it's not acceptable. That can be up to 1ma, more than 10% of the output current. There will be differential gain, there will be phase issues.
Replace the tube.


----------



## yakaway

Thank you Kevin.  Do you mean the rear tubes,  or all of them?


----------



## joseph69

yakaway said:


> Thank you Kevin.  Do you mean the rear tubes,  or all of them?


Why would you not buy all new tubes? This way you have piece of mind knowing all of your tubes are new.


----------



## 1note (Feb 28, 2018)

kevin gilmore said:


> if tvr1 is all the way to one side or the other parts including R13,R14,Z1,Z2 may burn up.
> Put all pots in the middle and start again.
> 
> Note: the way the srm-007t works is different from the tA and tII
> ...



Hi Kevin,
Sorry for the dumb arse question but I would be most grateful if you could confirm that the procedures you describe in your post above are the total procedures for adjusting a TII after replacing the 4 tubes.
Many thanks,
Chris


----------



## yakaway

joseph69 said:


> Why would you not buy all new tubes? This way you have piece of mind knowing all of your tubes are new.



I literally received my 009s and 7tII last week used. I have zero experience with electrostatics.  The guy sent them with vintage (non-russian) tubes that he called an upgrade.  One of them was damaged in shipping is my guess.

He sent the standard (russian) tubes over the weekend.  I was hoping to bias them and resolve the issue.  It seems I've had no luck with that either.   

His recommendation was to put two vintage working ones in the back and 2 newer ones in the front
Likely, I'll be buying tubes very shortly.

If anyone can recommend quality tubes for this, that would be very helpful.


----------



## kevin gilmore

You replace the one tube that won't balance.  But really a matched quad is much better.

The problem is that you need tubes with well matched sections. Just because a tube is new or " an upgrade" does not mean the sections are well balanced.
And if the sections are not well balanced, you can't use that particular tube in this circuit no matter how expensive or rare the tube is.

much easier to buy double the amount of new cheap tubes you need and pick the best of the bunch. Even that might not be good enough.
The T8000 is much worse with respect to this.

Its possible although very unlikely that the circuit is damaged. If a tube balances in one position, but won't in another, then there are circuit issues.


----------



## statfi

kevin gilmore said:


> pick the best of the bunch


Which used or new tube testers should we look for (to purchase) that would be good for "picking" tubes out of a "bunch"?  Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## kevin gilmore (Feb 28, 2018)

the uTracer 3+ is what you want. But its a kit and you have to assemble it yourself. Transformer, Chassis etc.
unless you build something custom, its the only to way to set a grid voltage and measure plate current.
Which is what you need for the 007 because you want to match for 3.7 ma per plate at a constant grid voltage.

old style tube testers are a lot harder to use for this.


----------



## statfi

kevin gilmore said:


> the uTracer 3+ is what you want


Oh wow.  Am I glad I asked!  Thanks!


----------



## soren_brix

statfi said:


> Oh wow.  Am I glad I asked!  Thanks!


Donald is very helpful and provides a rather detailed step-by-step assembly guide, along with step-by-step testing to make sure the assembled circuit actually works.The only thing you need to add is the PC-supply, a box, some sockets, and lots of beads (as Donald points out).


----------



## JimL11

yakaway said:


> Not a problem at all Jim. I apologize for being so naive about all of this. I never considered this as a hobby until very recently. The learning curve is astronomical, but I find it enjoyable nonetheless.
> 
> I have so many questions as a newbie and I greatly appreciate those who take the time to offer their insight.
> 
> ...



If you look at the input wiring, you'll see that input 1 and 2 run parallel to each other from the back of the amp to the front, so it's not surprising that if you crank the volume up there will be some cross-talk. Just turn off the source to the input you're not using.

The bass issue has been noted by others - see the InnerFidelity review of the SRM007. This is in large part due to the fact that the output stage uses plate resistors, which suck up a significant amount of signal current by Ohm's law. Changing to constant current loads (such as in the T1 mod) can largely mitigate this issue. Obviously, changing to the significantly more powerful BHSE, which uses constant current output loads, or another upgrade (e.g. SRX-Plus, KGSSHV, KGST, KGSS Carbon, Megatron), will also improve the bass significantly.

The Stax amps use concentric volume controls which are clutched together to adjust balance between channels, as you have discovered. If the controls tracked perfectly, then once they are balanced at one setting they should remain in balance. In practice, they are close enough at higher volumes but may deviate at low volume. This means that if you rotate both all the way up, and rely on the clutch to keep them aligned, they should be in close balance for much of the volume range, but you if you are listening at low volumes you may need to make an adjustment. OTOH, usually if you are listening at low volumes you are using it as background in which case balance is much less critical.


----------



## yakaway (Feb 28, 2018)

What a great answer Jim. Thank you for informing us. I was worried I was being too critical of this amp, but for me, I think I'll be looking to upgrade soon!

My opinions here are my own.  I'm new to the hobby. I don't read the reviews and follow the flock, yet. These are my observations and I'm doing this intentionally as of right now.

What's the sense in spending 10k on gear if you can't appreciate its greatness or point out faults in a lesser quality setup.

When I first tried the 009s, I knew they are something special, just not dialed in as say perhaps, my focal utopias with chord hugo 2. That hit me immediately as completely wonderful.

Bhse... kgsshv... bhse... kgss carbon... I guess I'll have to flip a coin tonight


----------



## weasel1979 (Feb 28, 2018)

bhse or carbon, thats my question.. (for SR-007)


----------



## Muffinhead

yakaway said:


> What a great answer Jim. Thank you for informing us. I was worried I was being too critical of this amp, but for me, I think I'll be looking to upgrade soon!
> 
> My opinions here are my own.  I'm new to the hobby. I don't read the reviews and follow the flock, yet. These are my observations and I'm doing this intentionally as of right now.
> 
> ...


Just get the most expensive one. It sounds like you want to and can afford it. Or you could get a cheaper amp and buy the SR007's with the extra money.


----------



## statfi

Is there any wisdom of when to turn off your BHSE or equiv. between listening sessions to maximize tube life?  If I am doing one listening session per day, I *think* its a no brainer: always turn it off at the end of the listening session.  But let's say I am doing 3 30 min listening sessions per day, spaced by H hours.  How long does H have to be to justify turning the BHSE off after each of the 3 sessions that day, to maximize tube life?


----------



## Whitigir

statfi said:


> Is there any wisdom of when to turn off your BHSE or equiv. between listening sessions to maximize tube life?  If I am doing one listening session per day, I *think* its a no brainer: always turn it off at the end of the listening session.  But let's say I am doing 3 30 min listening sessions per day, spaced by H hours.  How long does H have to be to justify turning the BHSE off after each of the 3 sessions that day, to maximize tube life?




You are over thinking.  Just enjoy them


----------



## JimL11

Muffinhead said:


> Just get the most expensive one. It sounds like you want to and can afford it. Or you could get a cheaper amp and buy the SR007's with the extra money.



Now, if you're willing to DIY, the monetary cost will be significantly less.  You will have to put in time and effort, but there is the pride of saying you built it yourself. In that case, the least expensive and simplest to build is the SRX-Plus - I built mine point-to-point, but Kevin Gilmore has the files to send to a board maker to produce your own printed circuit board. Using surplus transformers and heatsinks off eBay, it cost way less than $1k in parts including the enclosure. This has sufficient power for any Stax headphone including the SR-007, is in the same class as the KGST/KGSSHV, albeit with a somewhat different sound signature.


----------



## JimL11

Whitigir said:


> You are over thinking.  Just enjoy them



1+. The BHSE runs its EL34s at about 10 watts plate dissipation, which is about 40% of maximum, so they are basically loafing, and should last 10-20,000 hours.


----------



## 1note

Would someone please please help!?  I want to make the internal TVR1, TVR2, TVR3 and TVR4 pot settings adjustments after changing the 4 tubes in my SRM-007tII without blowing anything up.  I am not an engineer but I am capable of following step-by-step instructions.  I have 1 question.  Is KG’s outline all I need to do?  It seems simpler than the JimL11 + ColoradoTom outline.  Many thanks in advance!

*KG Outline *

- Start with control pots set to the middle

Repeat the following a few times over 30 minutes
- Put voltmeter probes between TP1 and TP2 and adjust TVR1 for zero
(if you have to turn tvr1 more than .25 turn in either direction, stop and get new tubes)
-Then put a voltmeter between either TP1 or TP2 and Ground and adjust TVR2 for zero
-Then put a voltmeter between both TP1 and adjust TVR3 to zero
-Then put a voltmeter between both TP2 and adjust TVR4 to zero
end repeat

*JimL11 + ColoradoTom outline*

1.    TVR1 adjusts voltages between + and - outputs for each channel

a.      Insert positive probe into slot labeled “L+” and insert negative probe into slot labeled “L-”.

b.      Adjust potentiometer labeled “TVR1” for the left channel. The potentiometer is EXTREMELY sensitive and the meter reading will have a tendency to drift around a bit.  The goal is to get under 1 volt.

2.      TVR2 adjusts the voltages of the outputs to be close to zero volts with respect to ground

a.    Leave positive probe in slot labeled “L+”

b.      Remove negative probe from slot labeled “L-” and attach to ground at back of amp.  The goal is to get under 1 volt.

3.      By alternating negative probe between ground at back of amp to slot labeled “L-” recheck and adjust TVR1 and TVR2 respectively

4.      TVR3 and TVR4 - they adjust the plate voltages for the two sections of each 6CG7/6FQ7 to be equal to each other. Connect a voltmeter between both TP1 points or both TP2 points and adjust TVR3 and TVR4 so that the voltage between the two is zero.


----------



## oktapod

Has anyone heard any of Mjolnir's new, more affordable KGSSHV Minis?  I am seriously tempted.  Apparently slightly lower voltage - 360V rather than 400V - would this result in a slightly less dynamic sound, or simply limit absolute headroom for the highest listening levels?  My 007 mk1s should have arrived yesterday but my town is cut off in all directions by snow so it's going to be tomorrow or Saturday at the earliest.  Then I will compare against L700 (with 006T) which I expect to be the more balanced system, but hoping to glimpse some of what a 007mk1 can do by listening at lower volumes which shouldn't tax the 006T so much.


----------



## Muffinhead (Mar 1, 2018)

JimL11 said:


> Now, if you're willing to DIY, the monetary cost will be significantly less.  You will have to put in time and effort, but there is the pride of saying you built it yourself. In that case, the least expensive and simplest to build is the SRX-Plus - I built mine point-to-point, but Kevin Gilmore has the files to send to a board maker to produce your own printed circuit board. Using surplus transformers and heatsinks off eBay, it cost way less than $1k in parts including the enclosure. This has sufficient power for any Stax headphone including the SR-007, is in the same class as the KGST/KGSSHV, albeit with a somewhat different sound signature.


Now you have caught my interest. How much, more or less, would the components for such an amp cost? Is there a BOM and schematic available for such a device? I don't have anywhere near the time to do this, nor do I have the knowledge, but I would fo it down the road.


----------



## soren_brix

I got a set of SR-X boards 2mm/4oz that I don't mind departing from


----------



## 1note (Mar 1, 2018)




----------



## joseph69

1note said:


>


How's the Terminator with you're system?


----------



## JimL11

1note said:


> Would someone please please help!?  I want to make the internal TVR1, TVR2, TVR3 and TVR4 pot settings adjustments after changing the 4 tubes in my SRM-007tII without blowing anything up.  I am not an engineer but I am capable of following step-by-step instructions.  I have 1 question.  Is KG’s outline all I need to do?  It seems simpler than the JimL11 + ColoradoTom outline.  Many thanks in advance!
> 
> *KG Outline *
> 
> ...



TP1 and 2 are connected to the output sockets with 100 ohm resistors, so the voltage at those points is < 0.4 volts different from the voltage at the socket. Both procedures do the same thing, ColoradoTom's just has a little more detail.




oktapod said:


> Has anyone heard any of Mjolnir's new, more affordable KGSSHV Minis?  I am seriously tempted.  Apparently slightly lower voltage - 360V rather than 400V - would this result in a slightly less dynamic sound, or simply limit absolute headroom for the highest listening levels?  My 007 mk1s should have arrived yesterday but my town is cut off in all directions by snow so it's going to be tomorrow or Saturday at the earliest.  Then I will compare against L700 (with 006T) which I expect to be the more balanced system, but hoping to glimpse some of what a 007mk1 can do by listening at lower volumes which shouldn't tax the 006T so much.



The difference in headroom between 360V vs 400V supplies is less than 1 dB, which is negligible. Remember that 100VRMS in the headphones is going to be close to 100 dB, which is VERY loud, and a +/-360V PS means you can reach peak levels that are 17 dB higher. Unless you play your headphones at ear-damaging levels, you're never going to get close to the limits of the power supply.




Muffinhead said:


> Now you have caught my interest. How much, more or less, would the components for such an amp cost? Is there a BOM and schematic available for such a device? I don't have anywhere near the time to do this, nor do I have the knowledge, but I would fo it down the road.



The original articles on the SRX-Plus were published in AudioXpress magazine in Nov and Dec 2015 (two issues). The power supply described in there is no longer current, and a new one is imminent, however, you can also use a KGBH supply or the KG Golden Reference supply set for+/- 350V. There is more info in the SRX Revisited and SRX Plus build threads which you can find with an internet search.


----------



## mulveling

oktapod said:


> Has anyone heard any of Mjolnir's new, more affordable KGSSHV Minis?  I am seriously tempted.  Apparently slightly lower voltage - 360V rather than 400V - would this result in a slightly less dynamic sound, or simply limit absolute headroom for the highest listening levels?  My 007 mk1s should have arrived yesterday but my town is cut off in all directions by snow so it's going to be tomorrow or Saturday at the earliest.  Then I will compare against L700 (with 006T) which I expect to be the more balanced system, but hoping to glimpse some of what a 007mk1 can do by listening at lower volumes which shouldn't tax the 006T so much.


Haven't heard his newest 360V minis, but the later 400V minis I heard were on the slightly bright side and not a good match for 009 or L700. Your 007 Mk I would be doing great on these amps, though. He claims the sound is not sacrificed by the cut to 360V, and I don't see a reason not to believe him there. The price cut is significant. But also look for full-sized KGSShv units that hit the market at even lower prices.


----------



## Rossliew

oktapod said:


> Has anyone heard any of Mjolnir's new, more affordable KGSSHV Minis?  I am seriously tempted.  Apparently slightly lower voltage - 360V rather than 400V - would this result in a slightly less dynamic sound, or simply limit absolute headroom for the highest listening levels?  My 007 mk1s should have arrived yesterday but my town is cut off in all directions by snow so it's going to be tomorrow or Saturday at the earliest.  Then I will compare against L700 (with 006T) which I expect to be the more balanced system, but hoping to glimpse some of what a 007mk1 can do by listening at lower volumes which shouldn't tax the 006T so much.



Perhaps I can chime in a bit here. I have the new “cheap” kgsshv from Mjolnir. I use it with my 007mk2, srx pros and Libratum. Absolutely more than sufficient power for those cans and definitely overkill for lambdas. And it is not bright at all unless your source is poorly recorded/mastered. Wonderful pairing with a slightly sweet tonality . I don’t even see the need to go to the full powered kgsshv Nor the Carbon. Unless you want a different sound/tonality I suppose.


----------



## statfi

Rossliew said:


> a slightly sweet tonality


Please help me understand "sweet tonality".  I know that it is commonly used but I never understood it.  So I would like to take this opportunity to learn.  Please tell me, e.g., how it audibly affects what instruments, and what it engineering terms causes it.


----------



## Rossliew

Apologies as I’m not good with such descriptions. I would say it sounds right. Treble is extended but never harsh. There is a certain liquidity in the sound, a cohesiveness throughout the frequencies that makes listening a pleasure. It doesn’t sound artificial I guess. Sorry if this is not of any help.


----------



## 1note (Mar 2, 2018)

joseph69 said:


> How's the Terminator with you're system?



I  am yet to listen to this headphone system, but in my CD speaker system (Jay's Audio CDT3 Transport, Custom 8w single  transistor Class A  battery powered mono blocks, Rey Audio K-Mons) it is excellent and easily bests my Rey Audio R-DAC in every regard. And the R-DAC is significantly better than the DAC in my Esoteric K03X. I find the Terminator to be tonally neutral, having wonderful realistic detail, great rhythm and great dynamics. I am enjoying it immensely.


----------



## oktapod

Well, the 007mk1s are here and despite everyone saying that they'd sound poor with the 006T, surprisingly they sound pretty good.  Certainly better than I was expecting.  For my listening levels, I could (and will) easily live with this combo until I pull the trigger on a better amp.  In comparison, the L700s, sound a tad 'hot', with more treble energy.  That suits certain tracks, whereas the 007 suits others better.  Either could be considered superb headphone sound, though I can't get away from the very strong hunch that I am going to really take to the sound of 007mk1s driven *properly*.

Which brings me to my next question.  I thought I might find the tonal balance a tad dull compared to the L700s, but I think Stax got the voicing about right.  Will a KGSSHV change the overall tonal balance, or just add refinement and better control?  If I could criticise the sound from the 007mk1/006T, I'd say that on certain busier tracks (but not all) there's a slight congestion to the sound and perhaps the bass itself is a touch bloomy.  But against my expectations, this is relatively benign. 

Very comfy phones too, I can see we're going to get along just fine


----------



## Whitigir

007 mkI is better with a solid state amp than tubes amp


----------



## Gnasherrr

oktapod said:


> Well, the 007mk1s are here and despite everyone saying that they'd sound poor with the 006T, surprisingly they sound pretty good.  Certainly better than I was expecting.  For my listening levels, I could (and will) easily live with this combo until I pull the trigger on a better amp.  In comparison, the L700s, sound a tad 'hot', with more treble energy.  That suits certain tracks, whereas the 007 suits others better.  Either could be considered superb headphone sound, though I can't get away from the very strong hunch that I am going to really take to the sound of 007mk1s driven *properly*.
> 
> Which brings me to my next question.  I thought I might find the tonal balance a tad dull compared to the L700s, but I think Stax got the voicing about right.  Will a KGSSHV change the overall tonal balance, or just add refinement and better control?  If I could criticise the sound from the 007mk1/006T, I'd say that on certain busier tracks (but not all) there's a slight congestion to the sound and perhaps the bass itself is a touch bloomy.  But against my expectations, this is relatively benign.
> 
> Very comfy phones too, I can see we're going to get along just fine



Grats on the getting the 007mki. I'm facing the same debate as well. I'm building a carbon now and choosing between $800 l700 and $1600 007mk1. Really no idea what to do.


----------



## Whitigir

Gnasherrr said:


> Grats on the getting the 007mki. I'm facing the same debate as well. I'm building a carbon now and choosing between $800 l700 and $1600 007mk1. Really no idea what to do.



I would wait on the next Stax flagship or get the VOCE  or all of them...lol


----------



## Gnasherrr

Whitigir said:


> I would wait on the next Stax flagship or get the VOCE  or all of them...lol



But $800 L700 tho...


----------



## Whitigir

Gnasherrr said:


> But $800 L700 tho...



I don’t know about l700, but I do know 007 and MkI is a pretty good match


----------



## VRacer-111 (Mar 2, 2018)

Gnasherrr said:


> But $800 L700 tho...



Or brand new L300 Limited 80th anniversary for $720 if you are considering the L700...


----------



## kylev (Mar 3, 2018)

yakaway said:


> What a great answer Jim. Thank you for informing us. I was worried I was being too critical of this amp, but for me, I think I'll be looking to upgrade soon!
> 
> My opinions here are my own.  I'm new to the hobby. I don't read the reviews and follow the flock, yet. These are my observations and I'm doing this intentionally as of right now.
> 
> ...



Get Carbon, its really good, all rounder amp! I have heard BHSE last time, but personally I still prefer Carbon for all tracks. Thanks to @soren_brix for the amp, love it!!


----------



## Whitigir

Remember to not inhale too much “carbon”


----------



## kylev

Whitigir said:


> Remember to not inhale too much “carbon”


Ahk.. now having difficulty breathing  hahaha...


----------



## oneguy (Mar 3, 2018)

kylev said:


> Get Carbon, its really good, all rounder amp! I have heard BHSE last time, but personally I still prefer Carbon for all tracks. Thanks to @soren_brix for the amp, love it!!


I have a Carbon and Ground Grid coming from @soren_brix in about 3 weeks. Planning a little shoot out between the KGST, Carbon, and Ground Grid. My personal pair of headphones are the L700 and if @Pokemonn and @ahmedie are available we can add the 007 and 009 to the mix. It should make for a very good time!


----------



## kylev

oneguy said:


> I have a Carbon and Ground Grid coming from @soren_brix in about 3 weeks. Planning a little shoot out between the KGST, Carbon, and Ground Grid. My personal pair of headphones are the L700 and if @Pokemonn and @ahmedie are available we can add the 007 and 009 to the mix. It should make for a very good time!


Can't wait to hear your impressions of the 3.. I also have L700 and I am very satisfied to pair it with Carbon now.


----------



## Whitigir

oneguy said:


> I have a Carbon and Ground Grid coming from @soren_brix in about 3 weeks. Planning a little shoot out between the KGST, Carbon, and Ground Grid. My personal pair of headphones are the L700 and if @Pokemonn and @ahmedie are available we can add the 007 and 009 to the mix. It should make for a very good time!



Next step, sell all 3 and get a KG T2


----------



## oneguy

Whitigir said:


> Next step, sell all 3 and get a KG T2


Why you selling?


----------



## organ_donor

oneguy said:


> I have a Carbon and Ground Grid coming from @soren_brix in about 3 weeks. Planning a little shoot out between the KGST, Carbon, and Ground Grid. My personal pair of headphones are the L700 and if @Pokemonn and @ahmedie are available we can add the 007 and 009 to the mix. It should make for a very good time!



I have a L700 and KGST built by Soren too. Very much looking forward to your comparison


----------



## Whitigir

oneguy said:


> Why you selling?



The only time I maybe selling is when I get away from head-fi, and headphones LOL!  However,  I don’t know when it may happen.  At the moment, I can’t even see a glimpse of it yet


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

The real end game is an Ultrasone Edition 10 and a Benchmark DAC3...end game for a Guantanamo cell 

Long live to KG amps


----------



## SeaWo|f

Oh come on @Whitigir, a T2 is the easy way out for endgame KG amps. Show some constitution and pursue the tubed output version of his circlotron!


----------



## ToroFiestaSol (Mar 3, 2018)

SeaWo|f said:


> Oh come on @Whitigir, a T2 is the easy way out for endgame KG amps. Show some constitution and pursue the tubed output version of his circlotron!



Meh, that's nothing compared to the DIY 10 years in development Peru Machu Picchu and Verbatim V7 (V13 version available next month) electrostatic ear panel speakers out of a car battery


----------



## HoloSpice

Fabulous setup..


----------



## Gnasherrr

VRacer-111 said:


> Or brand new L300 Limited 80th anniversary for $720 if you are considering the L700...


but anniversary l300 = l300 driver l500 stators l700 pads. that's not a l700 in anywya


----------



## VRacer-111 (Mar 4, 2018)

Gnasherrr said:


> but anniversary l300 = l300 driver l500 stators l700 pads. that's not a l700 in anywya



You have some things mixed up with the L300 Limited 80th... L300 with L700 like (if not indeed actual L700) stators, with pads unknown (based on shown photos L500, based on distributor word L300, based on STAX info different from either), and sounds VERY similar to L700 from those who have heard it.  Basically it appears you are getting ~90+% of an L700 for ~1/2 the price...


----------



## Whitigir

Well the last 10% always count, and sometimes to achieve such number would be quadruple the prices


----------



## oneguy

^+1
The law of dimenishing returns


----------



## Gnasherrr

VRacer-111 said:


> You have some things mixed up with the L300 Limited 80th... L300 with L700 like (if not indeed actual L700) stators, with pads unknown (based on shown photos L500, based on distributor word L300, based on STAX info different from either), and sounds VERY similar to L700 from those who have heard it.  Basically it appears you are getting ~90+% of an L700 for ~1/2 the price...




for $80 more dollars i'd rather take the actuall l700 anyday


----------



## VRacer-111

At $800 I'd be tempted to take the L700 over the L300L as well, but I've yet to see one offered under $900. The nice thing about the L300L is that it will most likely not loose any value, most likely uptick in value as the years go on while the L700 has lost value (which makes it a great bargin to pick up after a few years). For me the L300L makes sense over an L700 -  it's a special limited production anniversary edition which is close enough to an L700 to be very desireable (and at a lower attainable cost brand new as well versus L700 used.) A used L700 was my end goal, but the introduction of the L300L shifted my goal to it instead.

$800 is an EXTREMELY rare deal for the L700...take it!


----------



## 336881

Gnasherrr said:


> for $80 more dollars i'd rather take the actuall l700 anyday



I don't know. I liked the 404le and sr-sc-11 allot more than the sr-507. Half tempted to get back into Stax now that I see the new Octave amp from Mjolnir is SS now. That amp and the l300le is probably a heck of a combo for $2k new.


----------



## ahmedie

well l300le headband is the same as l300 headband which is very very bad and does not seal as l500/l700 headband,


----------



## oktapod

OK, a decision has been made.  Subject to some minor practicalities, I will be ordering one of the new Mjolnir KGSSHV ‘Mini’-type amps for my newly acquired 007mk1s.  Sure, I haven’t heard a KGSSHV of any type, so it’s a bit of a leap in the dark, but I’ve read too many people saying so many great things about the combo, and it (now) falls within the amount I’m prepared to put into this hobby.

Just have to decide how to pay and whether to have it sent to me or to use it as an excuse for a short break in Iceland!  The latter is obviously going to be much more expensive, but would save me postage, VAT and import duties, which will cover return flights for two (more or less).  Maybe...


----------



## Gnasherrr

oktapod said:


> OK, a decision has been made.  Subject to some minor practicalities, I will be ordering one of the new Mjolnir KGSSHV ‘Mini’-type amps for my newly acquired 007mk1s.  Sure, I haven’t heard a KGSSHV of any type, so it’s a bit of a leap in the dark, but I’ve read too many people saying so many great things about the combo, and it (now) falls within the amount I’m prepared to put into this hobby.
> 
> Just have to decide how to pay and whether to have it sent to me or to use it as an excuse for a short break in Iceland!  The latter is obviously going to be much more expensive, but would save me postage, VAT and import duties, which will cover return flights for two (more or less).  Maybe...



IC on $2500 carbons built by me?


----------



## oktapod

It’s tempting and a kind offer, but - and please don’t be offended - there’s additional value to me in selecting a builder with an established reputation and who is known to stand behind his offerings.  I’m not suggesting you don’t, just that for a purchase of this size I’m inclined to ‘play it safe’.  That being said, do feel free to send on some details via PM as I’m not saying no either, I just would want to see a few examples of existing builds and maybe read a testimonial as well.  

I may be overthinking these things, but I worry that the differences between a KGSSHV and a Carbon may be smaller than the magnitude of performance differences between a well-designed and built Carbon and a mediocre Carbon.  Again, not at all implying that your build would be mediocre - just that it’s a risk I’d seek to avoid.  But if you’re an established builder that I simply haven’t heard of, do say.


----------



## hfhimeka

You should be able to hear significant differences with the KGSSHV.  Once upon a time, I used to use a pair of 007mk2 with a 006tA, then after moving to the KGSSHV, sound and texture was much more improved, with a certain sparkle to it, and pronounced/controlled bass that the 006tA was not able to make apparent.


----------



## Pokemonn (Mar 5, 2018)

I just recieved an unknown builders fullsized KGSSHV Carbon. Wow just wow! Lol
its sound Bold Rich Organic NO Harshness! No need to EQ at all anymore!
I just noticed wasted last 3 years for crappy class D Stax amps...LOL!


----------



## sonics

Pokemonn said:


> I just recieved unknown builders KGSSHV Carbon. Wow just wow! Lol
> its sound Bold Rich Organic NO Harshness! No need to EQ at all anymore!
> I just noticed wasted last 3 years for crappy class D Stax amps...LOL!



Congrats! 
Any comments on listening experience between 009 and 007mk1?


----------



## Pokemonn (Mar 5, 2018)

Thanks! I have not try 007mk1 yet. i will try them later..
just i am surpreised my 009 doesnt sound any harshness! surprise surprise!!!!
KG rules!!!!!


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 5, 2018)

Pokemonn said:


> Thanks! I have not try 007mk1 yet. i will try them later..
> just i am surpreised my 009 doesnt sound any harshness! surprise surprise!!!!
> KG rules!!!!!



Now, do you know why I got so pissed off when people keep saying 009 lacks off bass, and is too harsh , too bright ?

I still try my best to keep spreading the Stax magic as much as I can though 

Welcome to real Stax !


----------



## Pokemonn

Whitigir said:


> Now, do you know why I got so pissed off when people keep saying 009 lacks off bass, and is too harsh , too bright ?



Yeah! I agree with you! so many people have been misleaded by crappy stax amps i guess?


----------



## VRacer-111 (Mar 5, 2018)

Found this Japanese blog on someone who got their L300L... yeah those pads are definitely NOT L300 pads! Very nice detailed pictures in the blog:

http://moeaudio.blog29.fc2.com/blog-entry-7612.html

Anybody know Japanese?


----------



## rpeebles

oktapod said:


> OK, a decision has been made.  Subject to some minor practicalities, I will be ordering one of the new Mjolnir KGSSHV ‘Mini’-type amps for my newly acquired 007mk1s.  Sure, I haven’t heard a KGSSHV of any type, so it’s a bit of a leap in the dark, but I’ve read too many people saying so many great things about the combo, and it (now) falls within the amount I’m prepared to put into this hobby.
> 
> Just have to decide how to pay and whether to have it sent to me or to use it as an excuse for a short break in Iceland!  The latter is obviously going to be much more expensive, but would save me postage, VAT and import duties, which will cover return flights for two (more or less).  Maybe...



Super ! 
My L-700 are in the post...should arrive today !!...which would be the recommended Amps - either STAX or 3rd party ?

What would the new Mjolnir KGSSHV ‘Mini’-type amps be like for the L-700 ? Which is the exact model & cost ? (link to their page)  Unfortunately I will not have the opportunity of listening to any KGSSHV of any type down where I live, so any purchase will be a bit of a leap in the dark ...but with your help I can do it !!

Thanks !


----------



## SeaWo|f

https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/

While I have never heard the l700 based on descriptions I have read.. I would be leaning toward the KGST. YMMV.


----------



## GarageBoy

Would either 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/142483143668
Or

https://www.parts-express.com/power-supply-regulated-3-12-vdc-2a-6-way--120-536
Be a decent quality power supply for the 252 amps?

Thanks


----------



## misooooo

VRacer-111 said:


> Found this Japanese blog on someone who got their L300L... yeah those pads are definitely NOT L300 pads! Very nice detailed pictures in the blog:
> 
> http://moeaudio.blog29.fc2.com/blog-entry-7612.html
> 
> Anybody know Japanese?


The biggest 2 things are that it's a little lighter than the 500/700 and that he received an actual model, not a review model..although he also seems to think the next batch won't be until May.

Everything he said regarding the sound was pretty meaningless, just the same literary masturbation used on most Stax reviews. He claims it's close to the L700, though.

The Google translate of it is pretty accurate, although it struggles in the parts when he starts going wild with wording.


----------



## thinker (Mar 5, 2018)

Coming back to Canorum wich has new V3 drivers including pads and also some other features.The Canorum is a jewel, that's the word wich comes in mind.It's the most difficult phone to describe how it sounds.There are screws on top where you can adjust clamping and fine tune the sound.

The sound of Canorum is unique, like a electrostatic Ultrasone edition 8 sound.It's a open sound but at the same time intimate and somehow closed.Female voices are creamy
still very clear and open,the voice whispers to your ears feeling.The Canorum V3 is full creamy  sturdy sounding with solid bass.

Here some pictures, i comment more on sound later when i figure out what to say
The Canorum looks great and is well build,i guess some people would love this phone ,i'm one of them.


----------



## 336881

ahmedie said:


> well l300le headband is the same as l300 headband which is very very bad and does not seal as l500/l700 headband,



404LE it is then...


----------



## Gnasherrr

thinker said:


> Coming back to Canorum wich has new V3 drivers including pads and also some other features.The Canorum is a jewel, that's the word wich comes in mind.It's the most difficult phone to describe how it sounds.There are screws on top where you can adjust clamping and fine tune the sound.
> 
> The sound of Canorum is unique, like a electrostatic Ultrasone edition 8 sound.It's a open sound but at the same time intimate and somehow closed.Female voices are creamy
> still very clear and open,the voice whispers to your ears feeling.The Canorum V3 is full creamy  sturdy sounding with solid bass.
> ...



you got me attempted sir. Libratum vs canorum? any comparison?


----------



## ahmedie

In Tokyo there will be an audio event in 10th (Saturday) and 11th (Sunday) http://www.dynamicaudio.jp/ stax is going to come and also some other manufactures. This is list of 1f floor headphone (until 20th this month)+.+ https://dynamicaudio55551f.wordpress.com/ and stax is going to demo the new limited headphones/amp, I can speak Japanese/English if any one interested so we can meet up and go together !


----------



## SeaWo|f

Delivery today from the land of Snow and Volcano's


----------



## mulveling

Argh, JJ's! Yank them out...if for no other reason (besides their bad history with power tubes) because of those weird shaped dome tops. Besides that, looks you'll be Stax'ing in style now! Is that a Blue Hawaii or a Grounded Grid?


----------



## georgep

That there would be a one box blue hawaii.


----------



## SeaWo|f

My OCD means I will tube roll it, but not today. It sounds great with the JJs spritzer shipped with it. I will stick to new production though..


----------



## Whitigir

SeaWo|f said:


> My OCD means I will tube roll it, but not today. It sounds great with the JJs spritzer shipped with it. I will stick to new production though..



I do like J&J, out of all the tubes rolling I had done before, the J&J was the best in sound signatures.  Next up would be Telefunken modern products, and both would be on the same level.  However, the XF2 is something else, if one could find the means and the wills to afford real quad matched XF2.  Those NOS seems to be built with “magic” lol!

Anyways, congratulations on the BH.  Don’t forget to share your impressions !


----------



## Jones Bob

And don’t forget those NOS Mullards will last for decades.


----------



## SeaWo|f

It is a wonderfully effortless and natural sound with my sr007mk2.5. There have been many things written over the years about the BHSE and I have listened to Justins BHSE as well, and those things also apply to Spritzers BHSE. It to me is accurate, fast, detailed, neutral and extended on both sides. I wont post a detailed break down of my though as I have only about 5 hours listening, plus that is not my thing and no matter what, to really appreciate a TOTL stax setup, time needs to be spent with it. I threw a wide variety of music at it and in each case it was up to the challenge.

I am very satisfied with the purchase, Spritzer was very helpful, responsive and professional through the ordering and shipping process.

Current chain is Innuos Zen mk2 -> YGGY analog 1 -> BHSE -> 007mk2.5.
Loop outs go to my Rag. Dynamics in inventory are HD650s, AKG K701 and Beyerdynamic DT770pro

Power cables are old 12awg server cables that I reterminated to exact length(I am ocd about having loops of extra cable around).
Interconnects are cheapies from monoprice reterminated to exact length.
Digital cables are monoprice as well.

I will probably get around to making some nicer interconnects later this year.. when the prospect of hand braiding 15' of cables seems less irritating.


----------



## Jones Bob

When you get a chance, do the A2 upgrade to your Yggy. Well worth it.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I plan on it, I am waiting until they have the form that the Gadget will take sorted out. They have mentioned possibly doing it as an upgrade that integrates it into current dacs in addition to a stand alone unit. If I can get it built into my yggy I will save a shelf space for either another amp or possibly a turn table.


----------



## 336881

Well just when I think I'm out they pull me back in. Just pulled the trigger on a 404LE. Probably going to pair with the new Mjolnir Octave v2 amp.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 6, 2018)

I have never seen or read such beautiful and accurate wordings in a review for 009 anywhere.  I will share this link here together with my own opinions.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/stax-sr-009-electrostatic-earspeaker-playback-54/

**Quote**.  During my time with the SR-009, I had the privilege of powering the headphones with _three different world-class electrostatic headphones amps_: the *Woo Audio WES* ($5000 - $6000 plus, depending on configuration), the *Kevin Gilmore-designed Head Amp Blue Hawaii SE* ($5000), and a pre-production prototype of the upcoming *Cavalli Audio Liquid Lightning* (projected price, $4250). As I listened through the three amps, *I was struck by the fact that the apparent “core sound” of the SR-009 changed in distinctive ways every time an amp switch was made*. Each of amps offered a compelling, though distinctive take on “state of the art” sound, and what floored me was the almost shocking extent to which the Stax headphone took on the sonic personality of each of the amps (almost as if it became a whole new headphone every time it was fed by a different amp). *If ever an audio product were a true sonic “chameleon,” the SR-009 is the one.*

**My opinion** Yes, this is exactly what I found from my Journey with 009.  In my case, the KG Carbon, Grounded Grid, or T2.  Every amplifier will effect the SR-009 in a different way, and distinctively so.  Especially the KG T2, it will give you the experience of “impossible”!  I say this because you _*will take BHSE or Carbon or GG to be the best to the performances that the 009 can and have to offer *(IMO, Carbon and GG offers different sound signatures but on the same league of performances, and this was when I thought that the 009 is performing at it best, and beyond this point, there can only be alternated signatures instead of *improvements*)*, but pair it with a KG T2 and once again, you will hear Distinctively Improvements yet again on the 009*_.

***Quote**The only caveat here, if there is a caveat, is that the SR-009, for obvious reasons, can only sound as good as the amp that drives it*

**My Opinion**Yes. This is exactly what I found too ! People can be skeptical, but you need to be open minded to seek it out, the opportunity to hear the 009 out of different *top of the tier amplifiers and witness it yourself !

**Quote**The eerie thing is experiencing how rich, full, complete, and lavishly detailed the SR-009 can make two instruments sound, even when playing intricate material simultaneously. No other headphone I know of can match the SR-009 is this respect.
*
_**My Opinion** Not only the 009 can do this to 2 different instruments simultaneously but Multiples in tracks that have it.  Now, this is only the story and the performances that the 009 can tell out of those 3 amps the article author was able to gather_*.  The KG T2 will Distinctively improves the spaces, the spartial presentations and positioning of each individual instruments in 3D dimensions that you can easily pick apart.  This exotic spartial positioning and staging is what differentiate the KG T2 against the Carbon or the GG In the while of keeping all of the Pros of Rich, full, complete, lavishly details from them*.  Not only that, both of the signatures of the Carbon and GG will be combined together, the speed of the carbon, the Sweet tonality of the GG, and the vastly gigantic sound stage from the T2.

**My Opinion**Those are some of the keys components that I totally agree with the article, and there is 0 points given that I disagree throughout the article itself.  You can read on and find out more about the 009 Stax.

***My Opinion**You may be one that is afraid and or being put off by the myth of “Stax has no bass, or 009 is bright/harsh”. I can tell you right here, and now, that neither of those are true, but beware of this FACT *_*to have a good amplifier to properly drive the 009, your pocket may not have the capability to handle it!*_   So, if anything, you should ask yourself, whether that you _*can properly afford the 009, or you can not*, and not how the 009 can perform.  *Very fair and square considerations
*_
**My Opinion** So what are the Cons of the KG T2 ? It is hard to find, it may *Still* be commissioned ATM, but expensive and take a while to wait ? Aside from that, it is running “HOT !! Very HOT!! After 2-3 hours listening, and 8 expensive tubes are too hard to Swallow”.  Then again, consider yourself very blessed and capable to have the KG T2 in your place whether you are financial capable, or Technically DIY capable, or both.


----------



## 336881 (Mar 7, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> I have never seen or read such beautiful and accurate wordings in a review for 009 anywhere.  I will share this link here together with my own opinions.
> 
> http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/stax-sr-009-electrostatic-earspeaker-playback-54/
> 
> ...



Energizer's are not the only route. Give the 009 great record players or reels and you will see a substantial improvement as well. Even more so than energizer's but that is my own experience.

Thing is that is what kind of ruins the 009 for me as I like mulveling a few pages back prefer speakers with great record players and reels and after filling up my audio stand with 2 channel gear  I barely have room for a Octave v2 amp let alone a bhse or T2. If there was a way to get a bhse or T2 in a really tiny sized amp I'd go for it. Maybe mjolnir kgss classic is the first step.


----------



## tumpux

SeaWo|f said:


> Delivery today from the land of Snow and Volcano's



Forgive me for being unfamiliar with this amp. Is it Mjolnir Audio Blue Hawaii?
I couldn't find it on the Mjolnir's website. Is it a special commission?


----------



## Whitigir

tumpux said:


> Forgive me for being unfamiliar with this amp. Is it Mjolnir Audio Blue Hawaii?
> I couldn't find it on the Mjolnir's website. Is it a special commission?



He is Stax Mafia member, and he can work on any DIY versions of any Stax amplifiers.  All you need to do is to have your pocket ready and shoot him an email to get the ball rolling


----------



## rpeebles

Whitigir said:


> He is Stax Mafia member, and he can work on any DIY versions of any Stax amplifiers.  All you need to do is to have your pocket ready and shoot him an email to get the ball rolling



Thanks ! Sorry who is "Stax Mafia member, and he can work on any DIY versions of any Stax amplifiers." Name/mail/head-fi  to contact ?
Much appreciated.


----------



## Whitigir

Mjolnir's website.

Look at Stax Mafia members as the people who are behind many experiments and designs these DIY amplifiers with KG being the head cook.


----------



## Jones Bob

The first rule of Stax Mafia: You do not talk about Stax Mafia.

Or you can use the search function.....


----------



## rpeebles

"The first rule of Stax Mafia: You do not talk about Stax Mafia"....ja ja ja...the wife could get to know !!

I will abide by the rules !


----------



## SeaWo|f

The mjolnir BHSE I have was not a special request. I was surprised to see it there when I was looking through the page the other week. I though spritzer had little interest in building more versions of the BHSE due to this being an older design and the many projects he has going, so when I saw the mini BHSE I pulled the trigger.

Maybe he would take on a special order if you are a personal friend, it really piqued his interest or the offer was too over the top to say no but from my conversations with him he does not like to commit to things like that.

There are other builders out there who will take commissions just research the stax, diy and amp threads here and the other place.


----------



## tumpux (Mar 7, 2018)

I am just curious, because this is the first time I see it.
Well, I guess you’re lucky that you can get such a rare build.

Oh, if you don’t mind can we see more pictures of this amp?


----------



## SeaWo|f (Mar 7, 2018)

I would have to pull it out of my cabinet. Which is a bit of a process. I have to take my headphones off of the hangers and remove the tubes to have a clear reach around back to unplug it's its inputs and loop outs. And then really fun part is putting or it back, the tube clocks make it hard to squeeze my head back there to check everything is plugged in right. I have to plug everything in by feel as I have no slack in my lines and my cabinet backs up to 2" off a wall.

I'm not really up for that, spritzer has done a mini BHSE in the past.. At least one other time. I will pm you a link to the location of the pics for that build later today. Mine is basically the same. 

I do have internal pics of mine, but again he has posted that in the other place on the previous mini bhse build.


----------



## bearwarrior

SeaWo|f said:


> I would have to pull it out of my cabinet. Which is a bit of a process. I have to take my headphones off of the hangers and remove the tubes to have a clear reach around back to unplug it's its inputs and loop outs. And then really fun part is putting or it back, the tube clocks make it hard to squeeze my head back there to check everything is plugged in right. I have to plug everything in by feel as I have no slack in my lines and my cabinet backs up to 2" off a wall.
> 
> I'm not really up for that, spritzer has done a mini BHSE in the past.. At least one other time. I will pm you a link to the location of the pics for that build later today. Mine is basically the same.
> 
> I do have internal pics of mine, but again he has posted that in the other place on the previous mini bhse build.



Share with us. I think more people will be interested in seeing that.


----------



## zolkis

SeaWo|f said:


> Current chain is Innuos Zen mk2 -> YGGY analog 1 -> BHSE -> 007mk2.5



Good visual and auditive taste. Enjoy the music.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Well this is as good as it will get, as I am not going to pull the amp out. I also want to say that Spritzer did a really good job with thermal management on this amp. The boards are mounted to the top panel and only the top front part of the heat sinks gets warm, as in warm not hot, and that is after running for 4 hour straight inside my cabinet. My cabinet has 4" of clearance from the sides to the heat sinks, 2.5" to the back steel mesh panel, 3" from the steel mesh to the wall and 16" from the top of the tubes to the top of the cabinet. When playing music I have the door to the cabinet open, but given how cool it runs it might be possible to run it with the door closed. 

About physical properties of the amp, it is quite heavy and has a very solid feel when you pic it up. Don't let the description of a mini BHSE fool you into thinking it is a small amp. In person it is very substantial. The dimensions are 17.75"w X 12.25"d X 3.75"h *height is just the chassis not the feet.


----------



## Whitigir

Interesting ! Very good pictures ! Thanks for sharing


----------



## tumpux

Ah, thank you for entertaining our request for the pictures SeaWo|f..
It is impressive.
I always love to see how a builder deal with space limitations and components placement in device that they build.

Does anyone has similar shots from different electrostatic amps? Mind to share them with us here?

Oh, your audio cabinet reminds me of a butsudan altar. You should invite us when you have an enshrinement ceremony for the amp..  



SeaWo|f said:


>


----------



## VRacer-111

In my Estat setup a NAD C275BEE powers a Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 energizer, here's what a C275BEE looks like inside :






I'll post the inside of the Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 energizer when I give the system a rest this weekend...I owe someone a comparison of the NAD/Mjolnir setup versus the STAX SRM-323S in the next few days...


----------



## VRacer-111 (Mar 8, 2018)

And holy heck, why did I not listen to this album sooner on my Estat rig! It enters an entirely new dimension compared to on my dynamic setup...


----------



## Rossliew

SeaWo|f said:


> Well this is as good as it will get, as I am not going to pull the amp out. I also want to say that Spritzer did a really good job with thermal management on this amp. The boards are mounted to the top panel and only the top front part of the heat sinks gets warm, as in warm not hot, and that is after running for 4 hour straight inside my cabinet. My cabinet has 4" of clearance from the sides to the heat sinks, 2.5" to the back steel mesh panel, 3" from the steel mesh to the wall and 16" from the top of the tubes to the top of the cabinet. When playing music I have the door to the cabinet open, but given how cool it runs it might be possible to run it with the door closed.
> 
> About physical properties of the amp, it is quite heavy and has a very solid feel when you pic it up. Don't let the description of a mini BHSE fool you into thinking it is a small amp. In person it is very substantial. The dimensions are 17.75"w X 12.25"d X 3.75"h *height is just the chassis not the feet.



Ahh i was one step slower in getting that >.< 

Could you share some sound impressions? Believe those are stock tubes that came with the amp?


----------



## SeaWo|f

Rossliew said:


> Ahh i was one step slower in getting that >.<
> 
> Could you share some sound impressions? Believe those are stock tubes that came with the amp?



They are the stock tubes. I am not one for posting detailed impressions. Here is a link to what I did post after a few hours of listening. It's about all the detail I'm willing to offer. I'm lazy, sorry. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-967#post-14088210


----------



## kevin gilmore

I really like the nixie clock


----------



## Rossliew

SeaWo|f said:


> They are the stock tubes. I am not one for posting detailed impressions. Here is a link to what I did post after a few hours of listening. It's about all the detail I'm willing to offer. I'm lazy, sorry.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-967#post-14088210



Thanks for the link. Missed that post but good concise impressions. Surprised it sounded that good with your cheapie cables.


----------



## JayKay47

These arrived today from Japan, $627 shipped to the USA.


 


 

So far so good, soundstage is a little more up front the the Airbow's sitting on the stand in the first pic.


----------



## SeaWo|f

@Rossliew I am not sure how long the BHSE was up for sale for, but I had been checking mjolnir regularly since I was getting impatient about completing a top stats setup. When I saw the BHSE posted I didn't hesitate. I immediately demanded spritzer take my money! Although when I first opened the shipping box I thought he might have duped me for some cod.



The nixie clocks have been great, at night they make me smile every time I walk by my office. I run one for my local time, Pacific and other for my companies main office time, Eastern because I'm dumb and easily confused.

I think cables can make a difference, at least interconnects and digital cables. Power as long as you have the right AWG for your length and demand I am not so sure.. But my plan is to make some nice silver plated copper xlr interconnects in a 6 wire braid configuration when I am not feeling lazy.

If anyone has a recommendation for some nice xlr connectors? It would be appreciated. FYI for me making the custom cables is as much, if not more about them being pretty vs sound, that way I am never disappointed.


----------



## 336881

JayKay47 said:


> These arrived today from Japan, $627 shipped to the USA.
> 
> 
> 
> So far so good, soundstage is a little more up front the the Airbow's sitting on the stand in the first pic.



Nice. It is hard to go wrong with the limited edition Lambda's. The only Lambda's imo. that best a ESP950. Just got a 404le that I'm going to pair with a Octave v2 energizer. I had the sr-sc-11 you have pictured. Honestly allot the 007mk1 imo. just not as comfy and not quite the build quality. The Airbow and 404le are great compliments to the hd800. So is the 007mk1. It just requires a bigger beefier energizer which I do not have the room for anymore.


----------



## LaCuffia

I had a 404LE and paired it with a T1 driver and it was amazing. I really regret selling that combo.


----------



## buzzlulu

Nice to see a pair of the 80th anniversary Stax.
I decided to dip my toes into the Stax water for the first time and have the 80th anniversary set (headphone and energizer) on order.
How are they and how do they compare to the 300/500/700?


----------



## ahmedie (Mar 11, 2018)

Called the stax guys he told me that L300limited and L700 are structured differently (different driver) ( later confirmed they are the same driver sorry )but are tuned to produce the same sound signature , so they should sound similar to most people and different if you have good ears lol. And he told me stax headphone take up to 10 or 20 years to burn in to their full potential lol , Also he advice me that I should never allow direct sun (40degree) rapid changes in temperatures. And they pick any noises in the chain so CD>AMP>headphone should sound best.


----------



## mulveling

ahmedie said:


> Called the stax guys he told me that L300limited and L700 are structured differently (different driver) but are tuned to produce the same sound signature , so they should sound similar to most people and different if you have good ears lol. And he told me stax headphone take up to 10 or 20 years to burn in to their full potential lol , Also he advice me that I should never allow direct sun (40degree) rapid changes in temperatures. And they pick any noises in the chain so CD>AMP>headphone should sound best.


LOL, does not sound like a legitimate "Stax guy". 10-20 years burn-in?! And yeah noise is gonna be more apparent on Stax, but then so too is the actual signal (hence the signal to noise ratio bugaboo for us analog lovers).
Who knows about the 300LE vs L700 drivers at this point.


----------



## ahmedie

http://bbs.kakaku.com/bbs/20467010453/SortID=4771136/　found this link where people are talking that is takes ages to burn in their headphones!

700時間；
48時間周期の音質の上下が落ち着いてきました。
エージングはそろそろ完了として良いようです。

大勢の方のレポートによると、鳴らせば鳴らすほど良い音になって行くとのことです。
今後は音楽を聴きながら、音質の向上を楽しみたいと思います。

then after 5 days

追加です。
800時間を超えて、音質の周期的上下が完全に安定しました。
それだけでなく、更なる音質の飛躍がありました。

より解像度が増して、更に細かい音まで聴けるようになりました。
それは低音域にまで及び、心地よく弾み質感も向上しています。
そして一番変化したのは、ノリです。聴いていて楽しいです。

素晴らしい表現力。
脳内ウルトラハッピー状態になりました。

he is saying at 800 burn in time and still getting improvement O.O


----------



## wink

As your ears get older, they become more forgiving.......


----------



## oneguy

I would say that at some point the change per hour attributed to burn in becomes negligible so you can consider them fully burned in at that point. The point differs per headphone but it’s like not on the order of years for the vast majority of the headphones out there IMO.


----------



## Muffinhead

Hello again, 
I'm looking to upgrade my DAC. Is there anything recommended for SR007's that is below $500? I'm willing to buy used.


----------



## givemetacos

JayKay47 said:


> These arrived today from Japan, $627 shipped to the USA.
> 
> 
> 
> So far so good, soundstage is a little more up front the the Airbow's sitting on the stand in the first pic.



Nice! Can I ask where you got them for $627 shipped?


----------



## JimL11

I believe the general consensus in this and previous threads on this website is that "break-in" for Stax headphones is practically negligible.


----------



## Rossliew

SeaWo|f said:


> @Rossliew I am not sure how long the BHSE was up for sale for, but I had been checking mjolnir regularly since I was getting impatient about completing a top stats setup. When I saw the BHSE posted I didn't hesitate. I immediately demanded spritzer take my money! Although when I first opened the shipping box I thought he might have duped me for some cod.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hahaha I love his cod boxes! Keeping one just for the laughs  

I saw the BHSE when it first went up and managed to get a couple questions to Birgir. Hesitating to pull the trigger as he mentioned that manual biasing may be required. Have you had to do any biasing?


----------



## catscratch

Yup, I never heard anything that could be attributed to burn-in with electrostatics. However earpad wear will definitely affect the sound, not to mention the fact that Stax have a habit of tweaking things and not telling anybody about it, so your shiny new pair might actually sound different from my crusty old one, for reasons other than burn-in.


----------



## JayKay47

givemetacos said:


> Nice! Can I ask where you got them for $627 shipped?



Yahoo Japan. When I pre-paid the exchange rate was $595 USD and $32 for shipping.

They have a small mid-bass bump and roll off quickly under 80Hz. Basically like any other Lambda with a broken earpad seal, which I don't mind. I've heard people say the L700 also behaves this way, due to a vented earpad baffle plate.

All in all, they have a nice alternative sound signature to my Airbow SC-1 and Lamda Pro's. The soundstage is a little more up front and in your face than the Airbow earspeaker.


----------



## Pokemonn (Mar 9, 2018)

Maybe pad shapes change makes slight sound change. Stax repairman told me so when my 009 pads repaired. He said that difference is measurable and audible.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 9, 2018)

It could be the pad change that affect it.  Though I found that wearing glasses or without it, there is no changes in sound performances.  Only reduced Stax farts.  My amplifier and tubes has a more burn-in progress than the headphones 009.

Honestly, I think Stax guys was half joking and half serious about 10-20 years burn-in.  They may meant that _it would take the market 10-20 years to appreciate Stax headphones_, which is pretty much true.

There is a clip on how to bias the BHSE.


----------



## 336881

JayKay47 said:


> Yahoo Japan. When I pre-paid the exchange rate was $595 USD and $32 for shipping.
> 
> They have a small mid-bass bump and roll off quickly under 80Hz. Basically like any other Lambda with a broken earpad seal, which I don't mind. I've heard people say the L700 also behaves this way, due to a vented earpad baffle plate.
> 
> All in all, they have a nice alternative sound signature to my Airbow SC-1 and Lamda Pro's. The soundstage is a little more up front and in your face than the Airbow earspeaker.



Zenmarket.jp is the way I roll nowadays. For a very small fee someone with thousands of trader feedback will bid for you. I am very convinced it saved me a ton on my C-2301. Bidding was hot and heavy and as soon as I bid all bidding stopped...for several days. Had I bid with my own trader feedback of 7 I'm mighty sure there would have been several bids after mine but with the gentleman from zenmarket at 4,897 trader feedback bidding everyone left. The fee was like $5.


----------



## 336881

LaCuffia said:


> I had a 404LE and paired it with a T1 driver and it was amazing. I really regret selling that combo.



I guess what turned me off on the L-300LE is that it is not the L-700LE. Stax kind of did make the flagship lambda the Limited Edition version in the previous releases.  I would rather get a used flagship limited edition version for a bit less than a new entry level limited edition version. I guess a L-700LE would be to close in price to the 007. I dunno at least for my perspective I was expecting a L-700LE for around $1500 to compete with the HD800.


----------



## JayKay47

antimatter said:


> Zenmarket.jp is the way I roll nowadays. For a very small fee someone with thousands of trader feedback will bid for you. I am very convinced it saved me a ton on my C-2301. Bidding was hot and heavy and as soon as I bid all bidding stopped...for several days. Had I bid with my own trader feedback of 7 I'm mighty sure there would have been several bids after mine but with the gentleman from zenmarket at 4,897 trader feedback bidding everyone left. The fee was like $5.



I use Buyee (proxy bidding and shipping service) or my friend in Japan to make purchases there for me.


----------



## SeaWo|f

@Rossliew I have not had to bias it because he shipped the tubes he used with the amp and numbered them so I would know which socket each went to.

As @Whitigir  mentioned there is a video posted by HeadAmp detailing the biasing process. 

The process is the same on Spritzers BHSE but the pot locations are different.


----------



## kevin gilmore

From recent experience, you should never turn the balance pot more than .25 turn in either direction. If the voltmeter is not changing, you are not monitoring the right pins.


----------



## yzyzlhtsdw

...and I just ordered the limited L300 from a US dealer, who charges more and won't ship until end of March


----------



## Whitigir

yzyzlhtsdw said:


> ...and I just ordered the limited L300 from a US dealer, who charges more and won't ship until end of March


Good for you.  At least by going with the dealer, you are in safe hand if anything or defects were to happen


----------



## JayKay47

Whitigir said:


> Good for you.  At least by going with the dealer, you are in safe hand if anything or defects were to happen



Stax Lambda's have proven to be quite hardy and durable, but I would want local warranty if I purchased a 007 or 009...

I also noticed the March delivery date has been pushed back to May for one of the US dealers.


----------



## yzyzlhtsdw

JayKay47 said:


> Stax Lambda's have proven to be quite hardy and durable, but I would want local warranty if I purchased a 007 or 009...
> 
> I also noticed the March delivery date has been pushed back to May for one of the US dealers.


For sure. I am just getting a little impatient I guess.


----------



## VRacer-111

I was hoping to have the L300 limiteds by now, but delivery is shoved back...again. I can wait, as long as I eventually get them....


----------



## Jones Bob

All good things are worth waiting for.


----------



## justin w.

Rossliew said:


> Hahaha I love his cod boxes! Keeping one just for the laughs
> 
> I saw the BHSE when it first went up and managed to get a couple questions to Birgir. Hesitating to pull the trigger as he mentioned that manual biasing may be required. Have you had to do any biasing?



I am very likely going to take down that video. It's causing more problems than it solves. It's not common to need to make these adjustments. All of the STAX amps have the same adjustments and they're inside the amp, requiring the cover to be removed. They also don't provide the instructions


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 9, 2018)

justin w. said:


> I am very likely going to take down that video. It's causing more problems than it solves. It's not common to need to make these adjustments. All of the STAX amps have the same adjustments and they're inside the amp, requiring the cover to be removed. They also don't provide the instructions



I believe that ! , the internet video + clueless folk = disaster.  It is an ancient recipe since the beginning of the internet


----------



## SeaWo|f

justin w. said:


> I am very likely going to take down that video. It's causing more problems than it solves.



I have heard about a few of those, my favourite tube related mistake story is by far is hot swapping them while the amp was powered.


----------



## SeaWo|f

.


----------



## Whitigir

SeaWo|f said:


> I have heard about a few of those, my favourite tube related mistake story is by far is hot swapping them while the amp was powered.



The WwwuUuUTTttt ?


----------



## SeaWo|f

Yea, it ties into one of my favorite sayings, nothing is fool proof for a sufficiently talented fool.


----------



## 336881

So does anyone have any time in on the the Octave v2 energizer from Mjolnir?


----------



## buzzlulu

VRacer-111 said:


> I was hoping to have the L300 limiteds by now, but delivery is shoved back...again. I can wait, as long as I eventually get them....



Are you USA based or somewhere else?
Where did you order from?


----------



## buzzlulu

Oh sorry - just saw  - Texas
Question #2 still stands though


----------



## Rossliew

SeaWo|f said:


> @Rossliew I have not had to bias it because he shipped the tubes he used with the amp and numbered them so I would know which socket each went to.
> 
> As @Whitigir  mentioned there is a video posted by HeadAmp detailing the biasing process.
> 
> The process is the same on Spritzers BHSE but the pot locations are different.




Thanks. Different pot locations will be bad for me since I don’t know one from another..


----------



## VRacer-111

buzzlulu said:


> Are you USA based or somewhere else?
> Where did you order from?



Ordered from STAXaudio.com January 25th....


----------



## ahmedie (Mar 9, 2018)

Since there were no comparison between 727 modded and 717 I asked a japanese person
*@afgmjkl *to tell me his impression and he was kind enough to reply to me in Japanese. This is a comparison between 717 and modded 727

届いてから音も安定してきました。二、三週間比較する気力がないので、素人の不正確な評価になりますが、ある程度感想まとめてみます。結論として、727 modのほうが717よりも一段ぐらい良い音です。
I am a beginner so i don't know if this review going to help. So I got the amp and I am not patient to do a comparison over 2,3 weeks, Since I think the sound is consistent for now I am going to give you my review : I will start as the coclusion that 727modded sound 1 level better.

最初に一聴してわかるのが、レンジ（周波数）の広さです。727modは、高域の量・質が改善され、シンバルの金物感（シャンシャン、みたいな音）のような、高域の繊細さがぐっと増したように思います。低域は、量は増えてはいませんが質が上がっています。717はボヤケて肥大した感じですが、727modは、より引き締まり、力強く弾むような低音です。
The first thing you notice is the range of frequency response is boarder (better dynamic range), with the mod the 727 produce much better quality and more detail in term of high frequencies. Symbols produced out of metal instruments have delicate detailed pronounced more. The low end while the same quantity on both amps, modded produced better quality. 717 is blurry and have bloom in bass while the modded is more tight, and bounce more ( not a one note bass )

解像度は、727modのほうが高いです。音場はほとんど変わらなかった気がします。ただ727modのほうがクリアーなので、それぞれの音が混雑せず、見渡しがいい感じはします。
So resolution of the modded is higher while sound stage remain the same, But the clarity of the modded amp can be perceived as less congested, and easy to see though (more layered) .

全体として2つを比較すると、717は少し霞んで（解像度が少し低い）、暗い（中低音が目立つ）感じです。727 modは、ハッキリ・クリアー（解像度が高い）で、フラットもしくは少し明るく（高域の量が多い）、レンジが広い印象です。
So with direct comparison 717 has is more blur (due less resolution), darker ( mid and low frequencies are emphasized). Modded is clearly clear (higher resolution), more flatter toward bright (higher frequency quantity is higher), higher dynamic range.

717は、727modよりも性能が低いと感じますが、かすんでいる感じや、中域が相対的に充実していることが、音楽を聴く上で楽しいと感じる人もいると思います。音の色付け・演出、colouringというんでしょうか、そんな感じです。727Aは、717よりも性能が高く、より正確な音です。音楽的には、より鮮度が高く感じます。僕はもちろん727modのほうが好きです。 ノーマル727はもっとあやふやで、ぼやけた音だったと思います。さらに低域が少なく、modよりも明るかった感じます。これなら717のほうがまだ良いです。
Technically I feel the 717 is less competent compared to modded, the the blurry and fuller mid-range may preferred depend on personality eg. colored and fun sound.
modded with better technicality and accurate sound produce very highly fresh (true to recording) sound. without the mod, inconsistent, fogy with less low end and would preferred 717 over the unmodded.

最後に、727、717どちらにも言えることですが、わずかに半導体アンプの悪い所が残っているように感じます。素人なのでうまく表現できませんが、モニター的・のっぺり・乾いている・機械的・音楽的でない感じがします。滑らか、艷やかな音の007と合わせるならまだしも、同傾向のL700、009と合わせるとこれがよりひどくなる気がします（あくまで予測です）。007tAだとこれがSTAXアンプの悪いところですかね。KGSSがどうなのか、気になります。これらが改善されますが、反対に別の欠点も多くなりますね。
Lastey both amp because since they are solid state ( he think ) they sound like dry / monitor like sound / digital and not really as musical. 007 is very smooth sounding and elegant sound and can be matched with the above amp, but with L700/009 which are already bright ( more revealing ) it won't be a good match. I think… 007ta can solve brightness problems but it also introduce its own other problems. So these are stax amp limitation. I am very spectacular about KG designs

余談ですが、L300 limitedはL700と全く同じ発音ユニット（stator含め）を使っているらしいです。STAXの社員さんに確認した人がそう言っていました。
By the way L300limited and L700 both use the same driver unite ( stator too) and have being confirm by someone I know


----------



## JimL11 (Mar 9, 2018)

@seawolf: Yea, it ties into one of my favorite sayings, nothing is fool proof for a sufficiently talented fool.

"Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - quote attributed to Albert Einstein.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Done a bunch more listening over the last two days to the mjolnir bhse + 007. While I admit I have little experience with lesser stax setups, as in maybe 10 minutes on a 407 and stax driver.. The generalization that goes around that stats lack in bass quantity or impact compared to dynamics or planar magnetics, is just  /facepalm. Rock, punk, edm, pop tracks that I have which demand a lot out of the low frequencies my last thought is I need more frequency response from the lower midrange down, to me it feels right and is extremely satisfying. 

Also this combo and "Friday Night in San Francisco" really breaths life into the performances.


----------



## yzyzlhtsdw

VRacer-111 said:


> Ordered from STAXaudio.com January 25th....


Have you received any email update(s) from them except the initial invoice, or is it just dead silence?
I am with the same dealer


----------



## LaCuffia

Is the 007ta driver a fairly big upgrade from the 353x?   I am looking to jump back into Stax but want to get an all purpose performer driver unit so that I can just upgrade the earspeakers if necessary.  I used to have a T1 and I guess the 007ta is part of the same lineage.  I am eyeing the L700 but the cheaper L300 Ltd is tempting. I wonder if the Ltd has the same pad depth as the L300.  I had a L300 and liked the sound a lot but it was uncomfortable.  Even the older 207 were a better fit and it seemed better built too.


----------



## JayKay47

LaCuffia said:


> Is the 007ta driver a fairly big upgrade from the 353x?   I am looking to jump back into Stax but want to get an all purpose performer driver unit so that I can just upgrade the earspeakers if necessary.  I used to have a T1 and I guess the 007ta is part of the same lineage.  I am eyeing the L700 but the cheaper L300 Ltd is tempting. I wonder if the Ltd has the same pad depth as the L300.  I had a L300 and liked the sound a lot but it was uncomfortable.  Even the older 207 were a better fit and it seemed better built too.



I haven't had the L300 on my head but have heard other people's complaints regarding the pancake thin earpads. I can say the 300LE look deeper in photo's, and don't bother my cauliflower ear.


----------



## givemetacos

JayKay47 said:


> I haven't had the L300 on my head but have heard other people's complaints regarding the pancake thin earpads. I can say the 300LE look deeper in photo's, and don't bother my cauliflower ear.



Do your ears touch the back of the driver at all?


----------



## VRacer-111

SeaWo|f said:


> Done a bunch more listening over the last two days to the mjolnir bhse + 007. While I admit I have little experience with lesser stax setups, as in maybe 10 minutes on a 407 and stax driver.. The generalization that goes around that stats lack in bass quantity or impact compared to dynamics or planar magnetics, is just  /facepalm. Rock, punk, edm, pop tracks that I have which demand a lot out of the low frequencies my last thought is I need more frequency response from the lower midrange down, to me it feels right and is extremely satisfying.
> 
> Also this combo and "Friday Night in San Francisco" really breaths life into the performances.





yzyzlhtsdw said:


> Have you received any email update(s) from them except the initial invoice, or is it just dead silence?
> I am with the same dealer



Have not received any e-mail except for the initial order invoice in January.


----------



## JayKay47

givemetacos said:


> Do your ears touch the back of the driver at all?


no


----------



## VRacer-111

JayKay47 said:


> I haven't had the L300 on my head but have heard other people's complaints regarding the pancake thin earpads. I can say the 300LE look deeper in photo's, and don't bother my cauliflower ear.



Pancake thickness is being generous for an L300, more like the crepe thickness...~10mm backside/~8mm frontside thickness from bottom of plastic (not the mounting tabs) to top of the pad surface.


----------



## givemetacos

JayKay47 said:


> no



Good to know, seems like maybe it isn't the L300 pads then. 

I asked Headamp about their status of L300 Limited and they are still waiting to hear from Stax. Seems like Stax is releasing to Japan first.


----------



## ahmedie (Mar 11, 2018)

L300limited are 800 units and all sold ! before they sold out on stax site it was saying next patch is going to ship on June !

Heard the L300limited my impression they had all qualities of L700 except the smoothness, as they sounded grainy, I talked with stax guys directly he said they use the same driver of L700 (i said they are different before) but the cable / headband / pads are from the lower models. The best description I can come up with is that they sound exactly like a L300 with L700 sound stage/image/speed/dynamics/bass.


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## SilverEars (Mar 11, 2018)

Where does STAX Lambda Pro stand within the family in terms of performance?  I was quite underwhelmed when I had those.  I was expecting STAX to sound very resolving, and it wasn't the case with this one.  So, that had me question the performance of STAX ear-speakers under 009, 007, and Omega(which none of them I've heard extendedly).


----------



## Whitigir

SilverEars said:


> Where does STAX Lambda Pro stand within the family in terms of performance?  I was quite underwhelmed when I had those.  I was expecting STAX to sound very resolving, and it wasn't the case with this one.  So, that had me question the performance of STAX ear-speakers under 009, 007, and Omega(which none of them I've heard extendedly).



*welp* why spoil the fun? Grab some and have fun


----------



## JimL11

LaCuffia said:


> Is the 007ta driver a fairly big upgrade from the 353x?   I am looking to jump back into Stax but want to get an all purpose performer driver unit so that I can just upgrade the earspeakers if necessary.  I used to have a T1 and I guess the 007ta is part of the same lineage..



Yes and no. The 353x can sound on the dry side, so the 006/007 is better in that respect. However, the 007 is not any better in terms of drive capability because it uses plate resistors in the output stage, which soaks up a lot of the signal current, whereas the solid state Stax drivers use current source output loads, which allow much more of the signal current to actually go into driving the headphones. This is where some of the third party amps have an advantage - the Gilmore designs other than the original all triode design all use current source output loads, as does the SRX-Plus, however the latter is DIY only.


----------



## JayKay47

Looks like this solves the mystery which earpads the L300LE has...

https://stax.theshop.jp/items/7561103

I would like to try the L700 pads on my 300LE, to hear if they affect the sound at all. The 507 pads did change the sound on my Lambda Pro's when I installed them.


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## statfi

JayKay47 said:


> Looks like this solves the mystery


Could you spell out the mystery and solution for me?  Maybe I am missing something because I do not read Japanese.  Thanks!


----------



## JayKay47

statfi said:


> Could you spell out the mystery and solution for me?  Maybe I am missing something because I do not read Japanese.  Thanks!


 Do you want me to hold your purse too?

The 300LE uses the L500 pads, case closed and confirmed in writing by STAX JAPAN.


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## LaCuffia

So are the L500 pads essentially the same as the L700 but not real leather?


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## givemetacos

ahmedie said:


> L300limited are 800 units and all sold ! before they sold out on stax site it was saying next patch is going to ship on June !
> 
> Heard the L300limited my impression they had all qualities of L700 except the smoothness, as they sounded grainy, I talked with stax guys directly he said they use the same driver of L700 (i said they are different before) but the cable / headband / pads are from the lower models. The best description I can come up with is that they sound exactly like a L300 with L700 sound stage/image/speed/dynamics/bass.


 
Since it isn't clear how original L300 compares to L700, could you be more specific about how L300 Limited sounds in stage/image/speed/dynamics/bass compared to original L300?


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## ahmedie

LaCuffia said:


> So are the L500 pads essentially the same as the L700 but not real leather?


L700 pads is thicker than L500


----------



## ahmedie

z review compared L300 with L700 and many here too, L300 has flatter response / grainier / does not extends as L700 / so less highs and less bass / does not have mid-bass hump on the other hand L700 is smoother / warmer bcz of mid-bass and subbass quantity / but also extends further in treble so can sound brighter to some people and equipment / scale better / reveal more / more resolution / bigger sound stage / both similar image. I cannot give specifics about L300limited since I only heard them for 30 min ... but they do sound different than both L700 and L300 so in term of technicalities it should be L300 < L500 <<< L300limited < L700, I suggest that people who prefer the L300 tuning over the L700 (they are many) would most likely prefer L300limited tuning vs L700


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## SeaWo|f (Mar 11, 2018)

Z reviews specialises in risque anime wall papers, hyperbole and nonsense.

Seriously if  anyone should not be offering opinions on audio gear it's that guy.

Edit :: While I believe everyone can have their opinion so perhaps his ears are just tin. But that does not excuse the ridiculous crap he spews about non subjective things like amplifier design, dac design, tubes and how headphones are made.


----------



## JayKay47

I ordered a set of L700 earpads for my 300LE from Stax USA, will update impressions once they arrive.


----------



## Whitigir

Wait, so how come 007 has gold-plated and no holes electrodes while the 009 is aluminum electrode ? What am I missing ? They advertise the 009 to be the state of the art in their technology ?


----------



## Jones Bob (Mar 11, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> Wait, so how come 007 has gold-plated and no holes electrodes while the 009 is aluminum electrode ? What am I missing ? They advertise the 009 to be the state of the art in their technology ?



That’s so cruel....


----------



## jgazal

Whitigir said:


> Wait, so how come 007 has gold-plated and no holes electrodes while the 009 is aluminum electrode ? What am I missing ? They advertise the 009 to be the state of the art in their technology ?



For whom are those “questions” addressed? I would like to understand to which post or opinions are you referring to. Thanks!


----------



## SeaWo|f

^^ so I'm a bit drunk,  a state which a strongly endorse especially to the childrens and teenagers because they seem cool. And I'm not too smart even when sober, a sorry condition which my profession forces me into the vast majority of the the time, but @Whitigir you have completely lost me.


----------



## ahmedie

Ok got almost all LXX series except L500lol, I would say the different between L700 and L300limited is about 5%. limited is a little grainier (harder sounding) and do not extent as much in treble which make them sound to have a little more bass. They also do not image or separate as good as the L700 just 5% less (again bcz L700 extends in treble and they are more transparent)... you can think of them as a more warmer more forgiving version of L700. Definitely sound like a L300 with L700 technicalities. only 30 min burn in....I will update my impression if they change with burn in...I will burn them for next weeks.


----------



## Whitigir

SeaWo|f said:


> ^^ so I'm a bit drunk,  a state which a strongly endorse especially to the childrens and teenagers because they seem cool. And I'm not too smart even when sober, a sorry condition which my profession forces me into the vast majority of the the time, but @Whitigir you have completely lost me.



I simply meant, I just can not comprehend the level of Stax technologies and their descriptions


----------



## SeaWo|f

Stax may not be able to either.. After all there are many in this community that would argue they still haven't been successful in building a flagship to surpass the 007mki.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 12, 2018)

SeaWo|f said:


> Stax may not be able to either.. After all there are many in this community that would argue they still haven't been successful in building a flagship to surpass the 007mki.



And that is why Stax rep mentioned that it takes 10-20 Years to burn in.  Give the 009 about 10 more years and see ?

I know I love my 009 everyday.  I want to know if 009 limited edition is going to be a thing ? Or what may we have on this 80th anniversary


----------



## JayKay47 (Mar 12, 2018)

My 300LE were a little hard sounding for the first 10 hours, now they are much better. @ahmedie  have you tried the 300LE with the L700 pads?


----------



## GarageBoy

I know the stax amps have a reputation for being barely able to drive the 007 and 009, but are they decent with the l300/l700? 

I've heard that the 353x (323,323s) is a bit dry, the 717 a bit warm and colored, and the 727 a bit wooly in the bass (if not modded); not enough comments on the 006t/007t (which I have coming in). 

Just wondering who likes what amp for which headphone. I'm pretty sure I'm going to try and build a kgst, or one day pick up a BH...


----------



## martyn73

I've recently purchased a used SRM-300 with an SR-404 Signature. I also have an SRM-727II and SR-007A which has a quite a warm signature, with a reasonably wide soundstage (not as wide open as my HD800S) but on certain tracks by Jarvis Cocker and Jamiroquai (Tidal Hi-Fi with PC and Schiit Bifrost Multibit as the source) can have a zingy treble bordering on sibilance. As an experiment, I tried the SR-007A with the SRM-300 and the results were surprising. Despite the SRM-727II being more powerful (350V vs 450V r.m.s./1kHz), the hobbled SR-007A's treble was slightly reduced in emphasis and music became more enjoyable. I tried the SR-007A and SRM-300 with my iPhone 8 connected to a £9 dongle and didn't notice a significant difference compared to the Bifrost Multibit. I've owned Stax equipment for years and now inclined to re-home the Stax SRM-727II and SR-404 to a more appreciative new owner. Am I missing something or does the energiser not make a big difference to the SR-007A? My tinnitus is horrendous at the moment.


----------



## ahmedie (Mar 12, 2018)

JayKay47 said:


> My 300LE were a little hard sounding for the first 10 hours, now they are much better. @ahmedie  have you tried the 300LE with the L700 pads?


Ye I am using L700 pads ! The L500/limiter pads are have hard material with less leather compared with L700 which is very light and fluffy thicker and more leather, I am sure that L300limied will be so close to L700 after burn in, they are smoothing out eventually


----------



## ahmedie (Mar 12, 2018)

GarageBoy said:


> I know the stax amps have a reputation for being barely able to drive the 007 and 009, but are they decent with the l300/l700?
> 
> I've heard that the 353x (323,323s) is a bit dry, the 717 a bit warm and colored, and the 727 a bit wooly in the bass (if not modded); not enough comments on the 006t/007t (which I have coming in).
> 
> Just wondering who likes what amp for which headphone. I'm pretty sure I'm going to try and build a kgst, or one day pick up a BH...



I owned the following at the same time 353x, 323s, 727modded, and 323s was best sounding for L700 very neutral and trasnparent (seriously L700 with any stax amp is so transparent than any dynamic headphone as if you can see though the sound chain with Xray)and can be matched with brighter/darker dac with ease, highly recommended. 353x has more bass dynamic range but dry. 727 modded have most bass most dynamic but bright with L700, I would say buy any stax amp as they are on the same level with different voicing then upgrade to KG design.


----------



## deadlylover

A friend recently had a L500 suffer from severe channel imbalance after a month or two, the left channel was at roughly 20% volume. It was sent to Stax HQ in Japan so some of you may find the report interesting. (or not =P)

From what I can tell they tested the headphones for 1 day > replaced both of the drivers > tested for 168 hours under high load > final check before shipping.


----------



## krid

Is there anyone here who lives in Silicon Valley and wants to help out a fellow Stax owner?

I've got a pair of four year old SR-307s and an early-80s vintage SRM-1/MK-2 (refurbished by Yamas a decade ago). A couple weeks ago I noticed that the right channel was quieter by maybe 20% (and getting worse). I don't know if the problem is the cans or the amp and since I only have one of each I'm stuck. I'd like to try hooking my amp or cans up to someone else's cans or amp so I can isolate the problem.


----------



## oktapod

GarageBoy said:


> I know the stax amps have a reputation for being barely able to drive the 007 and 009, but are they decent with the l300/l700?
> 
> I've heard that the 353x (323,323s) is a bit dry, the 717 a bit warm and colored, and the 727 a bit wooly in the bass (if not modded); not enough comments on the 006t/007t (which I have coming in).
> 
> Just wondering who likes what amp for which headphone. I'm pretty sure I'm going to try and build a kgst, or one day pick up a BH...


If you can hold off a few days, I will have a KGSSHV Mini, 006T, T1 and both 007mk1 and L700 at home (my plan being to sell the Stax amps and L700 - but no rush).

What I have found is that the 006T drives the L700s fine.  They sound really good.  Contrary to what I had read and expected, though, the 006T doesn’t struggle to drive the 007mk1 particularly, though you get the sense that neither does it enable those headphones to really shine.  The two sonic signatures are quite different (007 and L700) but - to be perfectly honest - were it not for a compelling urge to get the best out of the 007s, I could easily live with the 006T:007mk1 combo.  Disclaimer: I don’t listen at really high levels, and without a better amp to do A/B comparisons, it’s not so easy to pin down exactly where the 006T:007mk1 combo is deficient.  Perhaps the bass could have better definition, and I am conscious that on certain tracks there’s a slight dynamic compression thing going on (but that could be source-material related).  I wouldn’t like to say which I prefer - 006T:L700 or 006T:007mk1.  Probably the mk1s, even without the better amp.

I’d still rate either rig considerably ahead of my previous SPL Phonitor:HD800 rig, which I really liked at the time.  That setup was fun but always shone a light onto the hifi aspects of the sound, whereas the Stax rigs are all about balance and getting to the essence of the music.  That’s the real magic right there.  If I’m being critical again, I think the 006T:007mk1 is the more musical rig, perhaps because it is slightly smoother and less etched than is the L700, but we’re talking minor differences at the 006T level.  I suspect the KGSSHV - when it arrives, hopefully today or tomorrow - will enable the 007mk1s to pull ahead and fix up those things that - conscious or not - may be pulling its performance back.

I deliberated about going ‘all in’ with a more expensive amp, but even at 006T:L700 level, the limitation is as often the source recording as it is anything about the headphone rig.  Without a doubt the BHSE:whatever will be a stunningly capable rig, but I’ve decided that it’s not something I wish to explore - just in case it sets off the upgrading bug again!

I will, of course, report back once I have my new amp, as it’s a new variant on Mjolnir’s KGSSHV stable.  There is a lack of direct comparisons between ordinary Stax amps and third party amps with all but the 007s and 009s, so I’ll make sure to also audition with the L700 and give my view on how it scales with the fancy amp.

Hope this helps!


----------



## rpeebles

ahmedie said:


> I owned the following at the same time 353x, 323s, 727modded, and 323s was best sounding for L700 very neutral and trasnparent (seriously L700 with any stax amp is so transparent than any dynamic headphone as if you can see though the sound chain with Xray)and can be matched with brighter/darker dac with ease, highly recommended. 353x has more bass dynamic range but dry. 727 modded have most bass most dynamic but bright with L700, I would say buy any stax amp as they are on the same level with different voicing then upgrade to KG design.



Ahmedie...that is very interesting regarding the 323s & L- 700 combo.I have a new SR - L 700 and looking for an amp. Did the 323s have enough power to drive the L-700 ? (medium volume, soft music - jazz, folk). Thanks


----------



## ahmedie (Mar 13, 2018)

rpeebles said:


> Ahmedie...that is very interesting regarding the 323s & L- 700 combo.I have a new SR - L 700 and looking for an amp. Did the 323s have enough power to drive the L-700 ? (medium volume, soft music - jazz, folk). Thanks


yes, at average volume and if you are not treble sensitive then 727modded will give you better results, otherwise 323s is very good at average to higher volume. 727modded is too fatigue at higher volume. just get 323s then upgrade to KG when you feel it. 727modded was not worth as upgrade. Also stax tube amp match L700 so well !


----------



## rpeebles

ahmedie said:


> yes, at average volume and if you are not treble sensitive then 727modded will give you better results, otherwise 323s is very good at average to higher volume. 727modded is too fatigue at higher volume. just get 323s then upgrade to KG when you feel it. 727modded was not worth as upgrade. Also stax tube amp match L700 so well !



Súper...thanks for the recommendation !


----------



## BananaOoyoo

After only reading about Stax online, I finally got the chance to try their lineup briefly in person - and decided to get a combo myself!
Pre-ordered the SR-L300 Limited (~$567) and the SRM-353XBK amplifier (~$915), so definitely looking forward to seeing more reviews - as mine won't arrive until late April/early May.


----------



## buzzlulu

Did you have the chance to demo the actual 300 Limited?  Impressions - especially when compared to the others in the series?


----------



## Pokemonn

deadlylover said:


> A friend recently had a L500 suffer from severe channel imbalance after a month or two, the left channel was at roughly 20% volume. It was sent to Stax HQ in Japan so some of you may find the report interesting. (or not =P)
> 
> From what I can tell they tested the headphones for 1 day > replaced both of the drivers > tested for 168 hours under high load > final check before shipping.



Mr Nakamura(Stax repairman) is very gentle and very kind person imo. he repaired my breaking wire of 009 twice for "FREE" even thay were out of warranty priod. so I just trust Stax HQ.


----------



## Whitigir

Pokemonn said:


> Mr Nakamura(Stax repairman) is very gentle and very kind person imo. he repaired my breaking wire of 009 twice for "FREE" even thay were out of warranty priod. so I just trust Stax HQ.



That is what you call a heart of enthusiasm!  Unlike “it is expensive , because it sound good” kind of folk


----------



## BananaOoyoo

buzzlulu said:


> Did you have the chance to demo the actual 300 Limited?  Impressions - especially when compared to the others in the series?



No, I didn't get a chance to try the either of the parts I purchased. They had a regular L300 and L500 connected to the normal 353X, an SR-009 connected to a T8000, and I believe an SR-007 connected to an 007 amp(?). They also had a Sonoma Model One among other things. Unfortunately, I didn't get to spend too much time with anything there, so I don't have any meaningful impressions outside of the basic "L300 pads suck" and "the 009 is actually amazing". (I initially went to the show after hearing that the Tia Fourte was available for listening, and didn't even know that there would be Stax models there )

The person there claimed that the driver in the L300 limited is the same one used in the L700 (which I don't believe is the case?), but if it has the L500/L700 pads and sounds somewhere between the two lambda models, I'd be very happy with my purchase.


----------



## buzzlulu

Which show was this? Dealer display?


----------



## givemetacos

oktapod said:


> If you can hold off a few days, I will have a KGSSHV Mini, 006T, T1 and both 007mk1 and L700 at home (my plan being to sell the Stax amps and L700 - but no rush).
> 
> What I have found is that the 006T drives the L700s fine.  They sound really good.  Contrary to what I had read and expected, though, the 006T doesn’t struggle to drive the 007mk1 particularly, though you get the sense that neither does it enable those headphones to really shine.  The two sonic signatures are quite different (007 and L700) but - to be perfectly honest - were it not for a compelling urge to get the best out of the 007s, I could easily live with the 006T:007mk1 combo.  Disclaimer: I don’t listen at really high levels, and without a better amp to do A/B comparisons, it’s not so easy to pin down exactly where the 006T:007mk1 combo is deficient.  Perhaps the bass could have better definition, and I am conscious that on certain tracks there’s a slight dynamic compression thing going on (but that could be source-material related).  I wouldn’t like to say which I prefer - 006T:L700 or 006T:007mk1.  Probably the mk1s, even without the better amp.
> 
> ...



I just got my 4040 system (SR404 + 006t) today and have been doing some brief listening comparisons with my 3100 system (L300 + 252S). I am quite impressed with the 006t so far. It definitely drives both Lambdas quite well. I have very limited listening time so far, but it definitely seems to smooth out the more dry and etched nature of 252S. The Stax tubes seem to behave in a similar way that matches my experience with tubes amps with dynamics. And I actually think I like 006t with L300 more than 252S just because it refines that upper mid/low treble forwardness that L300 has. I wouldn't say it is harsh with 252S to my ears, but the 006t just rounds the attack a touch which I think is why many would consider the tube amps more "musical". And with your comment I am definitely curious about 007mk1. I can see why 006t might not be the best pairing if 007mk1 is already a warmer/darker headphone, it might do better with a  leaner, faster, and more powerful amp. 

And for anyone else curious about the SR404, I am quite impressed. I've read a lot of mixed reviews about 404 and was sort of expecting it to be a noticeable downgrade from L300, but I am kind of leaning on the opposite side. It is warmer and not as upper mid forward as L300, sort of what HD650 is to HD600. And I tend to prefer a little warmth which is why I sold my HD600 and kept the HD650. I still plan on doing more comparisons and also further testing with my friend's L500, L700, and 353X amp.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 13, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> Wait, so how come 007 has gold-plated and no holes electrodes while the 009 is aluminum electrode ? What am I missing ? They advertise the 009 to be the state of the art in their technology ?



So, to answer my own question.  Stax SR-009 has no Goldplated Electrodes, but using their newest developments.  There is _*Multi Layer ElectRodes (MLER)*_

Quote:
New electrodes named MLER (Multi Layer ElectRodes) have also been developed to _realize the *plane drive* of the whole film diaphragm surface_. While infinite thinness and flatness are required for the fixed electrodes, _they simultaneously need to have other characteristics such as low resonance, high transmissivity of sound wave, and so on_. The entirely new electrodes have been completed through the unification of metal plates processed with _ultra-precision photograph etching using the high technology of heat diffusion combination on the atomic level_.
End quote:

*Yes, aluminum was selected for that purposes*

Now, I wonder how many layer of ElectRodes does the Shangrila, Jr., Voce has ? Or how do they work ? Perhaps another 10 years to catch up ?


----------



## jcn3

givemetacos said:


> And for anyone else curious about the SR404, I am quite impressed. I've read a lot of mixed reviews about 404 and was sort of expecting it to be a noticeable downgrade from L300, but I am kind of leaning on the opposite side. It is warmer and not as upper mid forward as L300, sort of what HD650 is to HD600. And I tend to prefer a little warmth which is why I sold my HD600 and kept the HD650. I still plan on doing more comparisons and also further testing with my friend's L500, L700, and 353X amp.



i agree that the sr-404s are quite nice. i wish i had held onto mine . . .


----------



## BananaOoyoo (Mar 13, 2018)

buzzlulu said:


> Which show was this? Dealer display?



It was the Seoul International Audio Show/Melon Mofi Show. One of the distributors there handles Stax, Sonoma, Grado, Oppo, etc. (was a bit tempted by the Oppo HA-1 they had available)

Edit: I posted this on the help & recommendations forum, but what would be the optimal way to connect my incoming L300 & 353XBK given my current equipment? That is, which of my amp/DAC combos has the best DAC section to work with?


----------



## SeaWo|f

Whitigir said:


> Now, I wonder how many layer of ElectRodes does the Shangrila, Jr., Voce has ? Or how do they work ? Perhaps another 10 years to catch up ?



I have hopes that the voce does turn out to be a good headphone even if it's colored. I really like the sound the pre 2016 lcd3f despite the delivery being anything but neutral to me. I have never purchased one because of the reliability issues. If I'd t voce bring that kind of laid back sound to the stats world I will pick one up. For when I'm in the mood to just zone out. 

 The hifiman headphones I have less enthusiasm for as they have attempted stats before and failed. Plus the belligerent manner in which the companies proprietor engages the community(since deleted) and questionable practices mean I probably would not give them my money either way.


----------



## ahmedie (Mar 14, 2018)

buzzlulu said:


> Which show was this? Dealer display?


I have limited and L700 and L300 with me. I think limited = L700 but with different tonality, they are grainy while L700 is smoother ,and they certainly have more bass. they have copper cable and stiffer pads which many contribute to the change. Also i review them past pages. if you listen to acoustic musics (orchestra/rock/etc) L700 is much better tonality as they sound so real, while limited also do fine with acoustic and other types (eg. pop, lesser mastered music). I would say L700 have neutral bass than limited.


----------



## tumpux

ahmedie said:


> I have limited and L700 and L300 with me.



Is it hard to get L300 limited in japan?
I tried to order that and the 353XBK through amazon jp but the order was cancelled due to stock unavailibility. 

If you dont mind can we have more detail shots on L300 limited?


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## ahmedie (Mar 14, 2018)

there is no more L300limited .... all sold out. Actually i bought the last one from stax directly...


----------



## givemetacos

ahmedie said:


> I have limited and L700 and L300 with me. I think limited = L700 but with different tonality, they are grainy while L700 is smoother ,and they certainly have more bass. they have copper cable and stiffer pads which many contribute to the change. Also i review them past pages. if you listen to acoustic musics (orchestra/rock/etc) L700 is much better tonality as they sound so real, while limited also do fine with acoustic and other types (eg. pop, lesser mastered music). I would say L700 have neutral bass than limited.



Are you saying L300 Limited has more bass than L700? So if L700 has neutral bass, than L300 Limited has a warm tilt? Also, do your ears touch the drivers with the L300 Limited pads?


----------



## astrostar59

SeaWo|f said:


> I have hopes that the voce does turn out to be a good headphone even if it's colored. I really like the sound the pre 2016 lcd3f despite the delivery being anything but neutral to me. I have never purchased one because of the reliability issues. If I'd t voce bring that kind of laid back sound to the stats world I will pick one up. For when I'm in the mood to just zone out.
> 
> The hifiman headphones I have less enthusiasm for as they have attempted stats before and failed. Plus the belligerent manner in which the companies proprietor engages the community(since deleted) and questionable practices mean I probably would not give them my money either way.



Seawolf, I would say the LCD4 is a very balanced HP, and has an improved HF response to earlier LCDs IMO. I had the 009s fed by my Carbon amp and in the end got jaded with the treble quality and presentation. The 009 to me is a detailed headphone, the LCD4 sounds more like big (high end) speakers. It is a shock next to the 009s, but you get adjusted to it, and the midrange is so liquid, female vocals very realistic. I would say like digital v analogue type of comparison. I can listen to all my Redbook now without issues, not track swop or simply avoids albums altogether. My feeling after a few years on the 009 out of any amp I have heard so far is a stethoscope type approach, and is loosing the timbre and emotion in the music as a cost of presenting the leading edges of notes at the same magnitude as everything else going on. Obviously personal tastes come into it. The HE-1 was IMO also close to the very best high end speakers I have heard. Interested in hearing the Mr Speakers stat, and reading impressions on here too.

I ask myself what I am missing v the 009s, and nothing comes to mind. The detail is all there, just placed in the presentation as a whole, not thrust forward.


----------



## Whitigir

009 is best with tubes amp.  Carbon is only good with 007


----------



## ahmedie (Mar 14, 2018)

givemetacos said:


> Are you saying L300 Limited has more bass than L700? So if L700 has neutral bass, than L300 Limited has a warm tilt? Also, do your ears touch the drivers with the L300 Limited pads?


limited use L500 pad and they are very stiff my ears dont touch the driver, but it will touch it eventually as the pads age. yes, they have more bass, I would say they have same tonality. with higher quality music L700 pulls ahead with very smooth addicting sound ! limited sound better with pop and bad recording bcz of added bass/grain. If you listen to well mastered music / I am not talking about flac/cd format, I mean good mastered / rock / 80s / etc L700 is soooo good. I dont find limited as addicting as L700 lol, I just did A/B now and I felt L700 is warmer bcz of delicate smooth treble [Edit future posts impression changed with burn in, limited is getting smoother]


----------



## ahmedie

Whitigir said:


> 009 is best with tubes amp.  Carbon is only good with 007



wow thats speaks alot as L700 is best with tubes amp as well , since they both use similar driver


----------



## SeaWo|f

astrostar59 said:


> Seawolf, I would say the LCD4 is a very balanced HP, and has an improved HF response to earlier LCDs IMO. I had the 009s fed by my Carbon amp and in the end got jaded with the treble quality and presentation. The 009 to me is a detailed headphone, the LCD4 sounds more like big (high end) speakers. It is a shock next to the 009s, but you get adjusted to it, and the midrange is so liquid, female vocals very realistic. I would say like digital v analogue type of comparison. I can listen to all my Redbook now without issues, not track swop or simply avoids albums altogether. My feeling after a few years on the 009 out of any amp I have heard so far is a stethoscope type approach, and is loosing the timbre and emotion in the music as a cost of presenting the leading edges of notes at the same magnitude as everything else going on. Obviously personal tastes come into it. The HE-1 was IMO also close to the very best high end speakers I have heard. Interested in hearing the Mr Speakers stat, and reading impressions on here too.
> 
> I ask myself what I am missing v the 009s, and nothing comes to mind. The detail is all there, just placed in the presentation as a whole, not thrust forward.



I have only heard the 009 out of the BHSE and I don't have a problem that most have with the treble energy being a bit too much, I am just not that sensitive to the high frequencies. I did find it to be not as fun as the 007mki or 007mk2.5, again out of the BHSE,



Whitigir said:


> 009 is best with tubes amp.  Carbon is only good with 007



As I am sure that Stax still has a T2 for testing and the 'fixed' T2 that never saw the light of day. If I had to guess, the 009 was probably developed for those amps. I would love to hear it out of the DIY T2 but I doubt I will get the chance.


----------



## thinker (Mar 14, 2018)

Update to Phenomenon Canorum.I removed the magnetic rings from the pads and everything changed.I had a discussion with Zoltan about this issue if a magnetic field can decrease the performance.The pads are now also slightly flatter without rings.This little change removed the Canorum V3 to the same ultimate level than Libratum with 009 pads.The difference to Libratum is that Canorum appear slightly meatier and a hint darker .Overall these are very balanced with excellent bass ,sweet mids and detailed highs.You can read Zoltans review on the other site about Libratums ,just add slightly warmth to performance then you have Canorum V3.Like to add that both Libratum V3 and Canorum V3 are among the worlds best electrostatic headphones money can buy (if not the best)


----------



## JayKay47

ahmedie said:


> limited use L500 pad and they are very stiff my ears dont touch the driver, but it will touch it eventually as the pads age. yes, they have more bass, I would say they have same tonality. with higher quality music L700 pulls ahead with very smooth addicting sound ! limited sound better with pop and bad recording bcz of added bass/grain. If you listen to well mastered music / I am not talking about flac/cd format, I mean good mastered / rock / 80s / etc L700 is soooo good. I dont find limited as addicting as L700 lol, I just did A/B now and I felt L700 is warmer bcz of delicate smooth treble



@ahmedie What does the L700 sound like with the L300LE/L500 ear pads? Does treble grain as you call it creep into the music? Do the L700 pads seal better?

When I measured the L300LE there was a a 100Hz bump and then the bass rolled off fairly quickly, which is how older Stax Lambda's behave when the seal is broken. Other member's have shown the regular L300 baffle to have vents and the earpads do not seal very well to the baffle plate like the older taped on pads, hence no Stax fart. I taped around the periphery of the earpads and driver housing effectively sealing them, and this brought the bass measurements more inline with older Lambda's, flatter bass response that extends much lower, and the old Stax fart was back.

Hopefully the the L700 pads I ordered will be here next week and I can add my impressions vs the stock 300 LE pads.


----------



## Whitigir

Keep on the phenomenom.  I will buy it when it is V20, if we get there.  Electrostat with magnetic field, who knows


----------



## AudioThief

@oktapod 

I await your impressions with excitement!

I am still enjoying my 007 mk1 via 727II combo. I recently swapped from my desktop to my laptop. I swear that the rig (modi mb > 727 > 007) sounds more resolving but a tad bit brighter from my laptop, while a bit more even keel / laid back out of my desktop. I wonder why that is? It might be psychological, but I swear its very easily noticeable for me. I think I like the overall sound better out of my desktop. Just a tad bit smoother. 


I have made sure all audio settings are the same i.e bitrate quality in windows etc. Major differences is that the laptop is better isolated (on dynamic headphones I could hear hissing from my desktop) and the operating system is w10 on laptop vs w7 on desktop.


----------



## ahmedie

JayKay47 said:


> @ahmedie What does the L700 sound like with the L300LE/L500 ear pads? Does treble grain as you call it creep into the music? Do the L700 pads seal better?
> 
> When I measured the L300LE there was a a 100Hz bump and then the bass rolled off fairly quickly, which is how older Stax Lambda's behave when the seal is broken. Other member's have shown the regular L300 baffle to have vents and the earpads do not seal very well to the baffle plate like the older taped on pads, hence no Stax fart. I taped around the periphery of the earpads and driver housing effectively sealing them, and this brought the bass measurements more inline with older Lambda's, flatter bass response that extends much lower, and the old Stax fart was back.
> 
> Hopefully the the L700 pads I ordered will be here next week and I can add my impressions vs the stock 300 LE pads.



I have tried L700 pads on limited and they did sounded more like a L700 including smoothness and decreased bass could hardly notice a different. Also with burn in limited is getting closer to L700 smooth sound. If you have limited you do not need the upgrade it wont worth it.


----------



## givemetacos

JayKay47 said:


> @ahmedie What does the L700 sound like with the L300LE/L500 ear pads? Does treble grain as you call it creep into the music? Do the L700 pads seal better?
> 
> When I measured the L300LE there was a a 100Hz bump and then the bass rolled off fairly quickly, which is how older Stax Lambda's behave when the seal is broken. Other member's have shown the regular L300 baffle to have vents and the earpads do not seal very well to the baffle plate like the older taped on pads, hence no Stax fart. I taped around the periphery of the earpads and driver housing effectively sealing them, and this brought the bass measurements more inline with older Lambda's, flatter bass response that extends much lower, and the old Stax fart was back.
> 
> Hopefully the the L700 pads I ordered will be here next week and I can add my impressions vs the stock 300 LE pads.



Did taping the L300 driver housing have an audible impact on bass response, or did it just mostly show up in measurements only? Did you feel added sub-bass weight?


----------



## JayKay47

givemetacos said:


> Did taping the L300 driver housing have an audible impact on bass response, or did it just mostly show up in measurements only? Did you feel added sub-bass weight?



Yes it had a noticeable impact when listening. Daft Punk's "Doin' it Right" shows the lack of the stock 300LE sub bass extension very easily. My Senn HD600 has more low end with "Doin' it Right", put it that way. The taped 300LE, was better than the HD600, much cleaner.

My Airbow SC-1 already serve the clean and low purpose, so when the L700 pads arrive, I will determine what direction I go with the 300LE... to seal or not to seal...


----------



## Pokemonn (Mar 15, 2018)

i just noticed my volume level settings have been too loud...I have been listening to Stax amps's volume position "5". its just too loud. now its position "3"(for srm-007t and 009).
That was the reson why my Stax amps sounded harsh. darn. i coundnt noticed this fact until today. lol

Which Stax amps volume posions do you guys listen to??? please let me know. Thank you.


----------



## Whitigir

Pokemonn said:


> i just noticed my volume level settings have been too loud...I have been listening to Stax amps's volume position "5". its just too loud. now its position "3".
> That was the reson why my Stax amps sounded harsh. darn. i coundnt noticed this fact until today. lol
> 
> Which Stax amps volume posions do you guys listen to??? please let me know. Thank you.



Depends on the amp ! But I do crank up my 009 + T2 ways louder than I should.  I try to limit my sessions because I don’t want to blow my eardrums this early


----------



## Pokemonn

I agree. depend on amp/source output V/headphone sensitivity. etc
I just noticed that i have been listening to too loud volume....probablly i got some hearing loss for last 3 years...darn lol


----------



## Whitigir

Pokemonn said:


> I agree. depend on amp/source output V/headphone sensitivity. etc
> I just noticed that i have been listening to too loud volume....probablly i got some hearing loss for last 3 years...darn lol



Our hearing will degrade, regardless of what you do.  However, listening too loud for too long will speed up the degradation progress.  There is nothing wrong with listening to the satisfying volume for the systems that you have for about 60 minutes and take few hours break.

I rather listen to loud volume that comfortably satisfy me than listening to whispering


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## mulveling (Mar 15, 2018)

Most of the KG-designed amps will play completely clean and distortion free much louder than the point where your ears will be begging for mercy (well, the Stax version of that, since they are so very low-fatigue at any given volume). Going from a Stax amp to a KG amp will be like upgrading from a cheap Home Theater receiver to 300 Watts/ch monoblocks.

I believe, though I have no proof, that moderate/loud listening on a good Stax setup will be less damaging to hearing than traditional headphones at same volume. They are very low on fatigue factor.


----------



## Jones Bob

I use an iPhone app to measure the SPL at the outside of earpod. That’s where I gauge the rotation of my volume knob for maximum  for most listening.

These STAX play so loud with low distortion, without the usual queues to turn the volume down. Can be dangerous if not taken into account.


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## Pokemonn (Mar 16, 2018)

Thanks guys for reply. yes iphone SPL meter is good idea. just I will try it now.

EDIT:
i just install SPLnFFT iPhone app. I just measured HP-A8 + srm-007t + SR-009 with some tracks.

Level "5" positiion = it reports "Loud: annoyance possible"
Level "3" position = it reports "Moderate or Comfortable"

darn i have been listening to annoyingly loud volume....

FYI according to latest medical study. hearing loss may increase dementia possibility...i recommend to search "hearing loss dementia"


----------



## Whitigir

Only annoyance possible.  If my wife would talk that loud to me, it would annoy me and some more...but with Stax 009 and T2, no...it is musical and soothing.  It takes away my stress


----------



## Jones Bob

Pokemonn said:


> Thanks guys for reply. yes iphone SPL meter is good idea. just I will try it now.
> 
> EDIT:
> i just install SPLnFFT iPhone app. I just measured HP-A8 + srm-007t + SR-009 with some tracks.
> ...



Judge for yoursel. I suggest you get a proper SPL meter app that lists the measured volume in dB and not rely on some nerd’s edited response.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 15, 2018)

To properly measure the SPL that affect your hearings, you will need a very sophisticated set up, and it gotta be from the inner chamber toward the ears.  The iPhone apps only measures the possible loudness of the ambience without specific distance.  It is more generally to be used for measuring your environment instead, like a subway station, Broadway, downtown, construction areas...etc.

I would just say that when your ears are begging for Mercy, that is when you need to turn down the volume  , easy, and effective


----------



## VRacer-111

With the L300 on the SRM-323S I listen at about 2.5 nominally, 3 MAX.


----------



## givemetacos

mulveling said:


> Most of the KG-designed amps will play completely clean and distortion free much louder than the point where your ears will be begging for mercy (well, the Stax version of that, since they are so very low-fatigue at any given volume). Going from a Stax amp to a KG amp will be like upgrading from a cheap Home Theater receiver to 300 Watts/ch monoblocks.
> 
> *I believe, though I have no proof, that moderate/loud listening on a good Stax setup will be less damaging to hearing than traditional headphones at same volume. They are very low on fatigue factor.*



Scientist checking in here, and this statement is not true and a potentially dangerous line of thinking. The reason you get hearing damage from loud sounds is because of the sound pressure level. Since sound travels through air waves, louder volumes are pushing more air regardless of how "distortion-free" that sound wave is. The air pressure level is the same. What happens is higher sound pressure levels are pushing your hair cells down inside your inner ear. Think of this like stepping on fresh grass on a nice lawn. Lower volumes would be like lightly tip toeing quickly across the grass. If it is light enough, the blades will pop back up nice and quickly. High volumes (above 85dB) would be like stomping on that grass with heavy boots. The more you do this the harder it is for the grass (aka hair cells) to pop back up into position. It is this repeated exposure that can eventually permanently damage those hair cells over time. [source]

I would argue that low distortion headphones like Stax ENHANCE the probability of hearing damage because it means you are able to tolerate higher volumes without fatigue and not realize how high your volume levels may be. Please be safe everyone.


----------



## joseph69

Anyone know where I can get a really small rake?


----------



## Whitigir

How exactly is 85Db from loudspeakers compare to headphones ? I would like to know more


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

@Whitigir 85db are 85db, doesn't matter if from a headphone, a speaker or a car, the safe amount of time exposure is the same because the loudness is the same.


----------



## Jones Bob

ToroFiestaSol said:


> @Whitigir 85db are 85db, doesn't matter if from a headphone, a speaker or a car, the safe amount of time exposure is the same because the loudness is the same.



There are weighted curves that more reflect how humans hear, so 85dB A weighted is not the same as B or C weighted. I’m not well versed enough to offer more insight here. Suggest a Google search for more complete info,


----------



## Pahani

VRacer-111 said:


> With the L300 on the SRM-323S I listen at about 2.5 nominally, 3 MAX.



Yup, I listen to my Stax at 3 on my 353X.

My X-00's I listen to at a bit less than 9 O'clock on my Jotunheim (high gain).

On both, for quick 1-song rock out sessions. the volume knob goes to 50%.


----------



## mulveling (Mar 15, 2018)

This is certainly a problem of measurement too. 85dB how? At what specific frequency, or range of frequencies? If the latter, what weighting? Headphones on the head can create some very nasty LARGE peaks from resonances, in the treble region. And aren't the high-frequency hairs much more delicate and easy to damage than for lower frequencies? That can't be good for hearing, even if the 1kHz volume is at a reasonable level.

Stax are relatively free of those nasty peaks.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Between my headphones, my dirt bike and my Italian wife I have just resigned my self to losing my hearing early.


----------



## buzzlulu

Well - on 300 Anniversary edition news - Elusive Disc has just changed their estimated delivery date again.  It now reads July.


----------



## givemetacos

Whitigir said:


> How exactly is 85Db from loudspeakers compare to headphones ? I would like to know more





ToroFiestaSol said:


> @Whitigir 85db are 85db, doesn't matter if from a headphone, a speaker or a car, the safe amount of time exposure is the same because the loudness is the same.



So that is true, but it is the MEASURING of SPL with headphones that is quite tricky and presents many challenges. There is always going to be some uncertainty and error. The way I personally do it is I use a cheap sound level meter ($20) and have a cardboard plate with a hole poked in the center to stick the measuring mic through. I then push this up inside the earpad against the driver to measure. This is the best I can do for an approximation. These cheap sound level meters will typically have +/-1.5 dB calibration accuracy, but measuring from the headphones doesn't represent the exact seal that you get when on your head or the same type of reflections. Plus the distance of the mic from the driver is different than your ear drum to the driver. Also, music is dynamic and constantly changing. Even the types of music have huge variations in dynamic swings. For instance, classical music might have a lower average SPL, but have higher max peaks for shorter periods of time. It isn't uncommon for max peaks to hit over 100dB instantaneously, but as long as that isn't under long, repeated exposures, quick max peaks like that could be ok. 

For my own personal peace of mind, I just try and play it safe as possible. I typically try to jam my measuring meter as close to the driver as possible to get as high of a reading as possible. I then monitor my typical type of music selection and try and keep volume levels such that average SPL is around 70-80 dB with occasional, infrequent peaks in the 90+ dB range. Keep in mind that recommended safety levels is a general guideline and there's just not going to be a perfect practice to assure you are doing it "right". So I just assume my measuring might be off by like 5-10 dB and give myself that buffer. I also try to consciously take breaks every hour or so during longer listening sessions.

Regarding dBA vs dBC, using a dBA meter is fine for music and headphones. It is weighted that way to account for the manner in which our ears respond to lower frequencies and the safety organizations (e.g. NIOSH) that give guidelines (e.g. staying under 85dB) are giving those guidelines based on dBA levels. Worrying about dBC is more of a concern if you are working in industrial settings that use heavy machinery with primarily low frequency noise exposure.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 15, 2018)

Here is a pretty simple guideline that you can use your own judgements

http://www.noisehelp.com/noise-level-chart.html

The 85-90db would sound like a Snow Blower or Lawn Mower, and this is going to be hearing damaging if exposed for long term.

If you have a habit of going to the range without muffler, I guess your hearings have been pretty out of wack LOL ! My uncle does that, but his hobby is gun and how they sound, not headphones or music


----------



## bearFNF

joseph69 said:


> Anyone know where I can get a really small rake?


Is this what you are looking for?

Or not...


----------



## Pokemonn (Mar 16, 2018)

maybe future headphone or loudspeaker systems will be computerized and have noise dosimeter build in and automaticaliy limit the SPL.
so in near future that issue will be solved imo. just simple computerized contoroled variable resister input limiter will work.


----------



## statfi

givemetacos said:


> I would argue that low distortion headphones like Stax ENHANCE the probability of hearing damage because it means you are able to tolerate higher volumes without fatigue and not realize how high your volume levels may be.


I'm in this camp, maybe because "first impressions are the best".  In the '80's I heard my first pair of Stax in an audio store.  The salesman commented "be careful, they can make your ears bleed" with an explanation to the effect that your intuition as to how loud they are will be wrong because loudness in this case doesn't correlate with distortion as it typically does for audio systems.
Does anyone know of a good source untangling RMS from peak power for damaging hearing?  It strikes me that getting the data to answer this question could be quite inhumane.


----------



## joseph69

bearFNF said:


> Is this what you are looking for?
> 
> Or not...


Maybe something just a little bit smaller.


----------



## AudioThief

I am so grateful for STAX! 

Throughout my headphone journey I have tried many headphones, but it wasn't until I heard Stax I knew I had find my personal "true sound". I put a lot of money down on  my current rig (007mk1 & 727ii) but my gosh it sounds incredible. I've just been sitting here drinking beer and going through my favorite "hi fidelity" music and it really is quite the experience. I think that if I had to "settle" for dynamic headphones I would be ultimately disappointed with my journey into expensive headphones. With Stax? No chance! 

I would also like to comment on how REMARKABLE the SRS 3100 system is. While the 007 & 727 is better in every way, the differences are ultimately quite small - obviously in head fi land every small difference has a huge impact on our joy of listening, but you get my point - L300 is just such an awesome headphone. If it werent for my addictive personality, I would stop at L300 and never look back. They do lack soundstage but other than that its hard to complain. I really want to hear a pair of L700s, those must be some remarkable cans.


----------



## ahmedie

I never bought any headphones (only under 100$) in my life as I am speaker guys. All dynamic headphones sound rather inferior to monitors in term of imaging / sound stage / engagement so I never bothered. Until I heard stax and it was rather emotional and show me a new dimension of sound ! I mean really you fundamentally hear new sound representation you never thought possible with human ears, that stax sounds extends to music for very emotional and engaging experience.


----------



## AudioThief

So lately I went from listening from my desktop PC, to my laptop PC. Everything else was the same, and logically there should not be a difference in the sound, but I felt the sound was a bit harder from my laptop than desktop - but a tad more detail overall.

I downloaded fresh drivers and ASIO4ALL, but it didn't help. I tried switching between tidal and spotify which I could easily hear the difference between on my desktop, but they were indistinguishable on my laptop... I turned off the same volume thingy on spotify.. Nope, nothing. 

So I downloaded fidelify, some sort of spotify replacement app, and just using directsound or wasapi I can hear now clearly that the depth is back into my music. Soundstage is wider, highs less shrill. I guess it was a driver issue of sorts. I'm not sure exactly what fidelify does, other than it claims to get "bit perfect" streaming to my pc.

I don't really care, it worked


----------



## VRacer-111 (Mar 16, 2018)

ahmedie said:


> I never bought any headphones (only under 100$) in my life as I am speaker guys. All dynamic headphones sound rather inferior to monitors in term of imaging / sound stage / engagement so I never bothered. Until I heard stax and it was rather emotional and show me a new dimension of sound ! I mean really you fundamentally hear new sound representation you never thought possible with human ears, that stax sounds extends to music for very emotional and engaging experience.



Maybe this headphone amp for helping dynamic headphones?







Been on my want to get list for a while...


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 17, 2018)

I love Guzheng, and string instruments in general.  Stax 009 and T2 is melting heart!  If anyone enjoy them


----------



## staticdynamo

STAX SRM-D10 Portable DAC Drive Amp (in development but listenable yet )  ~PCM 384kHz／24bit、DSD 5.6MHz 
Release date is not decided.  Can drive almost all Stax Ear Speakers.(Not SR-002, I think)


----------



## staticdynamo

Other images of STAX SRM-D10 Portable DAC Drive Amp   weight  450gram 75(W) 32(H) 141(D)mm  DAC chip is ESS.


----------



## catscratch

They better also sell a good carry case for the headphones, cause given how sturdy Lambdas feel, I ain't taking them anywhere without one.


----------



## LaCuffia

Any idea of estimated cost ?


----------



## staticdynamo

catscratch said:


> They better also sell a good carry case for the headphones, cause given how sturdy Lambdas feel, I ain't taking them anywhere without one.


Yes, I agree. Before the portable DAC, people of STAX should prepare good carry case for their headphones. STAX hasn't ever made carry case for their earspeakers.


----------



## staticdynamo

LaCuffia said:


> Any idea of estimated cost ?[/QUOT]
> I have no idea about the price of the dac drive unit. If I can catch the sales person of STAX, I'm going to ask him.
> But STAX's developing speed is very slow. (Last week I met him at a audio shop event in Akihabara, and asked
> when the sealing cover and ear piece for SR-002,which are already shown at some events,  will be released.
> He answered 'in this year'.)


----------



## tumpux

staticdynamo said:


> Other images of STAX SRM-D10 Portable DAC Drive Amp   weight  450gram 75(W) 32(H) 141(D)mm  DAC chip is ESS.



The first made in china stax product?


----------



## hyorokumochi

what is it intended to be used with aside from the 003? just curious because electrostats aren't exactly the most mobile headphones, being a bit more fragile and dust-prone than other options


----------



## Jones Bob (Mar 18, 2018)

staticdynamo said:


> But STAX's developing speed is very slow. (Last week I met him at a audio shop event in Akihabara, and asked
> when the sealing cover and ear piece for SR-002,which are already shown at some events, will be released.
> He answered 'in this year'.)



Was inquiring about replacement ear pieces for my SR-003 in early 2016 and told the same.


----------



## bearFNF

SR-007 MKII come in a pretty rugged case:
 


catscratch said:


> They better also sell a good carry case for the headphones, cause given how sturdy Lambdas feel, I ain't taking them anywhere without one.


----------



## protoss

staticdynamo said:


> Other images of STAX SRM-D10 Portable DAC Drive Amp   weight  450gram 75(W) 32(H) 141(D)mm  DAC chip is ESS.




Hold up! This is a Stax protable DAC and AMP?   I thought this is only a portable amp? 

If this is also a DAC. This will sell like hotcakes !


----------



## joseph69

bearFNF said:


> SR-007 MKII come in a pretty rugged case:


+1
Why even mention a carry case when you have this?


----------



## SeaWo|f

I always thought that was the purpose of the omega boxes. 

Maybe with this probable amp stax will also release a successor to the 4070 for use in public settings.


----------



## LaCuffia

At CanJam there was a guy in the lobby with a Stax Sigma portable rig.  It was a sad sight for some reason.  Not sure what use there is for a Stax portable set up besides being a woman repellent.


----------



## JayKay47

staticdynamo said:


> Yes, I agree. Before the portable DAC, people of STAX should prepare good carry case for their headphones. STAX hasn't ever made carry case for their earspeakers.


 
Use a Monoprice/Pelican case. The monoprice case would be a fraction of the cost of any Stax solution.


----------



## 336881 (Mar 18, 2018)

Just me but if I had to travel allot and wanted to take my Stax with me I would get a Mjolnir Octave v2 and some small inexpensive dac like a keces da-151mk2 before I would go for the Stax portable amp/dac offering. Made in China is a major turn off for me. Not real Stax imo. which isn't Mjolnir level.


----------



## joseph69

antimatter said:


> Made in China is a major turn off for me. Not real Stax imo which isn't Mjolnir.


So anything newly released from Stax will be made in China, not Japan from now on?


----------



## LaCuffia

joseph69 said:


> So anything newly released from Stax will be made in China, not Japan from now on?



I tend to doubt it. Remember the parent company is Edifier, based in China. Maybe they are looking at higher production numbers and lower cost for the DAC/amp.  

But perhaps the Stax old guard will be retiring and this is part of a larger plan.  It would be a sad day if Stax Japan fades or is not allowed the autonomy it’s had since the Edifier acquisition.


----------



## protoss

antimatter said:


> Just me but if I had to travel allot and wanted to take my Stax with me I would get a Mjolnir Octave v2 and some small inexpensive dac like a keces da-151mk2 before I would go for the Stax portable amp/dac offering. Made in China is a major turn off for me. Not real Stax imo. which isn't Mjolnir level.



Dude Mjolnir Octave v2 is not protable lol. 

Made in china is fine. You guys are being ignorant and a little racist by being a hypocrite with chinese products (not saying you as a racist, in general when it comes to China products) 

Apple is made in china ? 
Many appliance and gears and equipments are from china. Its all good.

Overall, this Dac/Amp is an amazing product by staxs !


----------



## joseph69

protoss said:


> Dude Mjolnir Octave v2 is not protable lol.
> 
> Made in china is fine. You guys are being ignorant and a little racist by being a hypocrite with chinese products (not saying you as a racist, in general when it comes to China products)
> 
> ...


I'm not being ignorant, I was just asking a question which wasn't out of fear of a product being made in China. I own a Holo Spring DAC/SingXer SU-1/MBP/iPhone and probably 99% of everything else in my home is either made in China or uses parts sourced from China. Even my H-D is made from parts sourced from several different countries, not the good old U.S. of A. I have no issue with products made in China with the exception of it effecting our revenue.


----------



## staticdynamo (Mar 18, 2018)

STAX produts are made in Japan. Some parts may be from China, they all are assembled in Japan. This is a report of an earphone shop. http://e-earphone.blog/?p=72122   Sorry all in Japanese.
All products (including the smallest and cheapest SRS-002) are handcrafted and assembled in Saitama Prefecture in Japan. In the clean room, assembled and tested in hanger,then go to the shops.






Building SRS-002





Ear speaker units tested after matching pairs





After Assembled all units are tested in hanger





Also all the amplifiers are tested


----------



## staticdynamo

About the print  'made in China'  on STAX SRM-D10 Portable DAC Drive Amp, I'm going to ask STAX if the amplifier will be made in China or made in Japan.


----------



## 336881

protoss said:


> Dude Mjolnir Octave v2 is not protable lol.
> 
> Made in china is fine. You guys are being ignorant and a little racist by being a hypocrite with chinese products (not saying you as a racist, in general when it comes to China products)
> 
> ...



The Octave v2 may not be something you take camping with you but it is def. small enough to take with you pretty easy or at least much easier than a kgsshv. Probably not much bigger than the Stax amp/dac and the dac I mentioned is pretty small as well. Take it up a notch with my ECP walnut V dac, really small dac as well, and you probably have something 007/009 worthy.

I never said anything about made in china being bad at all. Just most likely a rebadge is what I was thinking. Could be great but I'm not the biggest fan of rebadges. At least from my perspective/ experience you usually end up paying for a name with a rebadge with an OEM version coming out later for half the price. If that makes me a racist your funny.


----------



## staticdynamo

I received an answer from STAX sales person. About STAX SRM-D10 Portable DAC Drive Amp, it is not decided if it will be made in China or in Japan at now.
About myself, it doesn't matter if it will be made in China or in Japan. But 'made in China' is not a little thing in STAX history. So it can't be answered
 so easily. I will wait for the answer and release.


----------



## staticdynamo

JayKay47 said:


> Use a Monoprice/Pelican case. The monoprice case would be a fraction of the cost of any Stax solution.


Thank you for the advice.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 19, 2018)

LaCuffia said:


> I tend to doubt it. Remember the parent company is Edifier, based in China. Maybe they are looking at higher production numbers and lower cost for the DAC/amp.
> 
> But perhaps the Stax old guard will be retiring and this is part of a larger plan.  It would be a sad day if Stax Japan fades or is not allowed the autonomy it’s had since the Edifier acquisition.



That raised a hair raising question....would 009 be the last greatest Stax headphones in history, and would be craving for 30 years from now with astronomical pricing ? Kind of like the original Omega ?


----------



## Pokemonn (Mar 19, 2018)

simple answer is we just need MORE fun things from stax....LOL boringness is biggest first worlds problem.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Whitigir said:


> That raised a hair raising question....would 009 be the last greatest Stax headphones in history, and would be craving for 30 years from now with astronomical pricing ? Kind of like the original Omega ?



Given their historical issues with solvency, something like this could still happen. No guarantee that their new Chinese overlords will always be willing to dump cash into them. Or maintain them as what they are today of if they are not getting the return they think they should. 

A portable setup honestly seems like a stupid idea to me. A very small fraction of an already small market.

But if it leads then to make a new closed headphone I'll take it. Would be nice to have for gaming.


----------



## Whitigir

SeaWo|f said:


> Given their historical issues with solvency, something like this could still happen. No guarantee that their new Chinese overlords will always be willing to dump cash into them. Or maintain them as what they are today of if they are not getting the return they think they should.
> 
> A portable setup honestly seems like a stupid idea to me. A very small fraction of an already small market.
> 
> But if it leads then to make a new closed headphone I'll take it. Would be nice to have for gaming.



I agree, and portable for Stax is a very crazy idea.  Not sure if closed back is ideal for ES, but on my 009, even if I have my palms behind and over the drivers at 10cm away, it still affect the sound performances


----------



## SeaWo|f (Mar 19, 2018)

for their time the 4070 was liked. I think it was developed as a monitor originally. I keep my eye on the FS to try and catch one, but haven't seen one in a long time.

My wife and I game in the same room, so hearing her on TS and in the room is distracting. I liked closed for gaming for that reason.


----------



## Pokemonn (Mar 19, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> I agree, and portable for Stax is a very crazy idea.  Not sure if closed back is ideal for ES, but on my 009, even if I have my palms behind and over the drivers at 10cm away, it still affect the sound performances



Don't you know that almost good idea came from near craziness. normal people never invent great idea. for exsample T2 is very crazy. 200W power consumption to drive a headphone! and did bankrupt Stax once.


----------



## VandyMan

The size is great for portability, but also for those without a lot of desk space. Having a built-in DAC is a plus for the same reason.

Based on a very brief listen, I think this will be an easy to recommend under 1K solution for those putting together a new STAX system. Especially if they do not already have a DAC. 

I may get one for when I want to listen to my STAX in a room other than my living room (where my BHSE is housed).


----------



## 336881

VandyMan said:


> The size is great for portability, but also for those without a lot of desk space. Having a built-in DAC is a plus for the same reason.
> 
> Based on a very brief listen, I think this will be an easy to recommend under 1K solution for those putting together a new STAX system. Especially if they do not already have a DAC.
> 
> I may get one for when I want to listen to my STAX in a room other than my living room (where my BHSE is housed).



Yeah but as quickly as people buy them is as quickly as they will sell them if headamp, schiit or mjolnir get involved. If it sells like hotcakes one of them might.


----------



## 336881

Whitigir said:


> That raised a hair raising question....would 009 be the last greatest Stax headphones in history, and would be craving for 30 years from now with astronomical pricing ? Kind of like the original Omega ?



The end of an era. The Stax name would probably still remain but like every other Japan audio name from 30 years ago made in china. Prices would see a hike for sure. There are tons more sr-009's though and very, very few original omega's and probably zero original omega's left in mint condition. I think it could go back to the original msrp. of $5500 but that's about it, even 30 years from now.


----------



## VandyMan

antimatter said:


> Yeah but as quickly as people buy them is as quickly as they will sell them if headamp, schiit or mjolnir get involved. If it sells like hotcakes one of them might.



There is no KG design for a STAX DAC/amp for them to copy, so I'm not sure I would expect anything from HeadAmp or Mjolnir. Perhaps they could do an original design, if they know how to build a DAC, but that sounds like a major project to me and good luck getting it at the same price point.


----------



## VandyMan

antimatter said:


> The end of an era. The Stax name would probably still remain but like every other Japan audio name from 30 years ago made in china. Prices would see a hike for sure. There are tons more sr-009's though and very, very few original omega's and probably zero original omega's left in mint condition. I think it could go back to the original msrp. of $5500 but that's about it, even 30 years from now.



I think that high powered headphone amps may well be banned in the EU and Japan within the next thirty years due to their electrical usage.


----------



## SeaWo|f

antimatter said:


> Yeah but as quickly as people buy them is as quickly as they will sell them if headamp, schiit or mjolnir get involved. If it sells like hotcakes one of them might.



I read that Schiit has messed with idea of an electrostatic product but abandon the idea a while back. And if you think mjolnir is going to do a high volume mass produced product, you will be left wanting.


----------



## Whitigir

These ES amps are not easy to make for the parts cost and labors efforts.  I can not say enough how amazed I am at Headamp, that is hauling away with BHSE productions.  Especially at the on going prices.


----------



## JimL11

antimatter said:


> Yeah but as quickly as people buy them is as quickly as they will sell them if headamp, schiit or mjolnir get involved. If it sells like hotcakes one of them might.



Well, here's what Jason Stoddard, one of the principals at Schiit, posted back in 2014:

"To elaborate a little bit more:

1. The opportunity in lower priced gear is much, much, much higher than the ultra high-end--at least 5x higher for each halving of the price--in total sales, not units. We don't want to address the 400 people a year who will consider products with 5-figure price tags. That's not us.
2. We don't have a problem building some walls around what we do, and staying focused. To wit:
a. You won't see a surround processor from us, for licensing and ongoing changes in the HDMI standard. That's for other people.
b. You won't see an electrostatic amp from us, for liability (high voltage) and political reasons."


----------



## mulveling (Mar 19, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> These ES amps are not easy to make for the parts cost and labors efforts.  I can not say enough how amazed I am at Headamp, that is hauling away with BHSE productions.  Especially at the on going prices.


Yeah the Headamp BHSE is a fabulous deal for a finely engineered piece of sonic and visual art. I'm happy to hear reports he seems to have optimized the lead times?

Mjolnir is cranking out quite a few units over the past 2 years, and the market for this stuff can't be THAT much bigger...


----------



## mulveling

JimL11 said:


> Well, here's what Jason Stoddard, one of the principals at Schiit, posted back in 2014:
> b. You won't see an electrostatic amp from us, for liability (high voltage) and political reasons."


Political reasons? Like what, pissing off the Stax mafia? (e.g. if the circuit and/or build quality is deemed not up to snuff)


----------



## 336881

mulveling said:


> Political reasons? Like what, pissing off the Stax mafia? (e.g. if the circuit and/or build quality is deemed not up to snuff)



Sounds like it. That was 4 years ago though.


----------



## SeaWo|f (Mar 19, 2018)

Someone also made the comment that they had experimented with a particular amp variation that lends itself to low cost but were unhappy with performance. I think another company is selling a variation of that today, but again hearsay.

Edit :: If they did make one I would probably pick it up to try if the price was right. 

I was/am still thinking about the voce, but the only description I have is that tonality is between the 007mki and 009. I feel this is exactly where my 007mk2.5 fits so it seems redundant. I will wait and see where consensus lands though before a final decision.


----------



## JimL11

No idea on the "political reasons." I remember seeing a post by Jason Stoddard on the Schiit blog that they had briefly experimented with a similar circuit to the TubeCAD schematic - basically a two stage diff amp input, diff amp output, cap coupled with no negative feedback, but decided against it. The Rudistor Egmont is similar design if I'm not mistaken. According to someone who has built both an Egmont and an SRX Plus, the latter sounds significantly better, for a modest increase in parts cost.

I had a chance to compare my Stax SR007 Mk2.9 with port mod to the VOCE this weekend, driven by a BHSE, at the New Mexico meet. They sounded pretty similar in tonality,  but it was a brief audition, so I hesitate to say more. One of the others who listened said he thought the VOCE had a more even frequency response, but that the Stax seemed more effortless, and a third listener noted some differences in soundstage presentation, but he didn't go into more detail.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Yea, pretty consistent impressions and not enough to motivate me.


----------



## wuwhere

SeaWo|f said:


> for their time the 4070 was liked. I think it was developed as a monitor originally. I keep my eye on the FS to try and catch one, but haven't seen one in a long time.
> 
> My wife and I game in the same room, so hearing her on TS and in the room is distracting. I liked closed for gaming for that reason.



There was one 4070 for sale last December. It sold in a day.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-stax-4070-inmaculated.866991/


----------



## SeaWo|f

Yea things never show up when I am looking to buy. My luck is crap. It is small miracle I ended up with the amp I wanted.


----------



## LaCuffia

Are the newer 007 models different and/or better than the earlier versions of the MK2?  I remember reading about a 2.5 series or whatever it’s called having some issues in terms of tonal balance. I just don’t know the consensus of 2017 models and newer. I hear they will be phasing out the 007 too.


----------



## Whitigir

LaCuffia said:


> Are the newer 007 models different and/or better than the earlier versions of the MK2?  I remember reading about a 2.5 series or whatever it’s called having some issues in terms of tonal balance. I just don’t know the consensus of 2017 models and newer. I hear they will be phasing out the 007 too.



Which is good, I can not wait any longer for next Omega


----------



## SeaWo|f

My understanding is that the response from any of the mkii versions has a bit of a hum in the lower mids. And that the 007mk2.9/5 er whatever we are calling it these days is a bit closer in tonality to the 009 than previous versions. But my memory is no good for such detailed comparisons from memory. Also I have only heard the 007mki, 007mk2.9, and 009. Never the orginal 007mkii


----------



## LaCuffia

What does 2.9 mean? Just a newer model from last couple of years ?


----------



## SeaWo|f

Acknowledges the silent revision.


----------



## JimL11

LaCuffia said:


> What does 2.9 mean? Just a newer model from last couple of years ?



This is unofficial "labelling" of various revisions in the 007 Mk II, terminology courtesy of "spritzer," who builds and sells KG amps on the Mjolnir website, has collected most electrostatic headphones including pretty much every Stax, the Sennheiser HE90, the Jade, etc, and has listened to and catalogued various SR007 versions over the years. The 2.9 describes the Mk II's since about early 2015.


----------



## JimL11

Forgot to mention in my earlier post, that aside from the Rudistor Egmont, apparently the Trilogy H1 is a variation of the same circuit, that is, triode diff amp input, capacitor coupled into triode diff amp output. For those of you that are based in Great Britain.


----------



## ahmedie

Just wanted to say burning my already 200+hrs L700 for an extra 100+hrs improved sound. Also burning L300limited for 30hrs improved sound and then for 100hrs now I can hear improvement...talked to two stax staff and both told me it takes long time to burn them. And it is believed to take long time to burn stax headphones in Japanese forums as well. Do they do take long time to improve at very slow rate ? the reason why there is a believe that stax do not improve with burn in ?


----------



## buzzlulu

Care to update your comparisons between the 700 and 300limited?
((I forgot which amp you are using with these)


----------



## hanouk

Hello
Anyone has experience with the SR-Sigma (the normal one from 1977, not the Pro model)

What would be a good price for a used one in good condition ? (without amp)

How do they sound compared to Lambda models such as the SR-404, Lambda, Lambda Nova, SR207/407 or even the new ones.

thanks


----------



## ahmedie

buzzlulu said:


> Care to update your comparisons between the 700 and 300limited?
> ((I forgot which amp you are using with these)


Pretty the same impression... L700 has very soft top end and more sparkle, L300limited with L700 pads smoothed the sound considerably and very close to L700... L300limited have more bass.


----------



## 336881 (Mar 20, 2018)

So I got to spend a few hours with the new Mjolnir Octave v2 today (serial #004). Really nice. New toy syndrome abounds so I think I will wait a minute to post on it but I think this will make a great compliment to the hd800/dsha2.


----------



## 336881 (Mar 20, 2018)

hanouk said:


> Hello
> Anyone has experience with the SR-Sigma (the normal one from 1977, not the Pro model)
> 
> What would be a good price for a used one in good condition ? (without amp)
> ...



From the research I have done the 404 driver model is the most preferred. They are rare and sought after so unless you are into rare and sought after things you can do better for the money. Without amp $1k-$1500. My 404LE is a much better driver and goes for $500-700. Same goes for the Airbow sr-sc-1, 11, and 21.

The Sigma has a better enclosure though and is one of the few headphones that can do a wide open soundstage well. An hd800 can do it just as well though and is significantly easier to find used , a few hundred bucks less $$$ and is more comfortable.


----------



## ml48

Hi,can anyone help with problems I have with a first version of the srm1 mk2 amp.The offset stays around -120v and adjusters have virtually no effect and the balance of the right channel stays around -30v with adjuster having hardly any affect.I have changed all the electrolytic caps but not the blue and brown film caps.All the resistors seem to have the correct values.The bias voltage is 175v,is this ok but the bias resistor is 3.3M which I think is wrong.Thanks in advance for any help that you can give.


----------



## Olschl

I've been searching this forum for about an hour and still haven't found a clear, simple answer to my question. My SRD-7 is getting noisy. I'm cleaning it up; but is there a reasonable replacement out there? Could be an adaptor or complete amp. I can power it from the tape-out of my integrated or tape out to Audioengine N 22.


----------



## natto lover

Olschl said:


> I've been searching this forum for about an hour and still haven't found a clear, simple answer to my question. My SRD-7 is getting noisy. I'm cleaning it up; but is there a reasonable replacement out there? Could be an adaptor or complete amp. I can power it from the tape-out of my integrated or tape out to Audioengine N 22.


spritzer modded srd-7


----------



## JayKay47

My L700 pads arrived today and I put them on muh L300LE... Besides the plusher, more comfy feel, they seal better than the stock (L300LE/L500) pads, therefore bringing back the bass extension. 



 


L700 on the Left
L300LE on the Right


 


Green is L700 pads
Yellow is stock L300LE pads




Originally fresh out of the box, the L300LE had much worse bass extension and a fat bump between 80-100Hz. Typical of Lambda's with a poor seal or vent mod. The above measurements were taken within 10 minutes of each other, with multiple runs verifying a good fit to the test coupler. Today's stock results were much better, maybe because the initially stiff stock pads softened up and provided a better seal... I'm not really sure. I do know the L700 pads fit a lot tighter than the stock pads and don't snap in place as easily.


----------



## Olschl

Can't find that, either. I must be a ninny!


----------



## buzzlulu

I thought the 700 pads are not a direct replacement on the 300LE
Was there a need for some modification?


----------



## JayKay47

buzzlulu said:


> I thought the 700 pads are not a direct replacement on the 300LE
> Was there a need for some modification?


NO


----------



## VRacer-111

buzzlulu said:


> I thought the 700 pads are not a direct replacement on the 300LE
> Was there a need for some modification?



The L300, L500, and L700 are all the same in regards to pad mounting points, just need to make sure you face them correctly (there is a correct orientation to install them, install them in reverse and they won't seal as well.)


----------



## buzzlulu

Thanks


----------



## VRacer-111 (Mar 22, 2018)

Olschl said:


> Can't find that, either. I must be a ninny!



Spritzer = Mjolnir Audio, scroll to bottom of this page for info on his (Spritzer) Modded SRD-7:

https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/

Have it and it pairs extremely well with my NAD C275BEE stereo amp.


----------



## Rossliew

VRacer-111 said:


> Spritzer = Mjolnir Audio, scroll to bottom of this page for info on his (Spritzer) Modded SRD-7:
> 
> https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/
> 
> Have it and it pairs extremely well with my NAD C275BEE stereo amp.


Can you share some impressions of the sound sig?


----------



## oneguy

oneguy said:


> I have a Carbon and Ground Grid coming from @soren_brix in about 3 weeks. Planning a little shoot out between the KGST, Carbon, and Ground Grid. My personal pair of headphones are the L700 and if @Pokemonn and @ahmedie are available we can add the 007 and 009 to the mix. It should make for a very good time!



Well my plans to execute this have been pushed to the right. It’s looking like another month before I get them in hand.


----------



## Olschl

VRacer-111 said:


> Spritzer = Mjolnir Audio, scroll to bottom of this page for info on his (Spritzer) Modded SRD-7:
> 
> https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/
> 
> Have it and it pairs extremely well with my NAD C275BEE stereo amp.


THANKS, Vracer.


----------



## hpeter

ahmedie said:


> Ok got almost all LXX series except L500lol, I would say the different between L700 and L300limited is about 5%. limited is a little grainier (harder sounding) and do not extent as much in treble which make them sound to have a little more bass. They also do not image or separate as good as the L700 just 5% less (again bcz L700 extends in treble and they are more transparent)... you can think of them as a more warmer more forgiving version of L700. Definitely sound like a L300 with L700 technicalities. only 30 min burn in....I will update my impression if they change with burn in...I will burn them for next weeks.


that was almost expected, nice collection there


----------



## givemetacos

Has anyone heard an SR404 Signature with 507/404LE pads? My SR404 pads are pretty worn down and I need to get some replacements. I know most people prefer 404LE over regular 404 and it seems like different pads was potentially one of the major upgrades. Since both replacements pads are the same price I was debating which direction to go. I've also never heard a 404LE.


----------



## staticdynamo

Right EP-507（for SR-404 Limited） LEFT EP-234 Brown (for SR-404,ΛSinnature)
  EP-507 is sheep leather made for breathability and flexibility.  EP-507's price is twice the price of EP-234.


----------



## organ_donor

I tried the Stax portable amp at CanJam Singapore today.

It sounds pretty good, nothing wrong with 507 and L300 although I have to turn the volume knob almost fully. 
I bypassed the DAC with Mojo and managed to push the volume much higher without distortion, sort of double amping and this is how Mojo works. With this one can drive the more demanding cans easier i think.

And this is still better than bunch of dynamics/planar headphones setup there in my opinion.

According to the sales guy there the semi portable amp will cost around 1300sgd(hope i don't recall wrongly) and will be available around June 2018...If it is true.


----------



## staticdynamo

I met a STAX sales person at an event in Ginza today. I asked some questions face to face. He said neither of the release date nor the price of SRM-D10 is decided. I believe in him.


----------



## organ_donor

Yeah I have the same feeling too. Stax is not this speedy all the while. The amp is very solid and feel nice in hands though.


----------



## staticdynamo

organ_donor said:


> Yeah I have the same feeling too. Stax is not this speedy all the while. The amp is very solid and feel nice in hands though.


Anyway, thank you for the good information. I am looking forward to the release of the portable amplifier, too.


----------



## givemetacos

staticdynamo said:


> Right EP-507（for SR-404 Limited） LEFT EP-234 Brown (for SR-404,ΛSinnature)
> EP-507 is sheep leather made for breathability and flexibility.  EP-507's price is twice the price of EP-234.



Thanks, I'm only able to find the EP-234 for $45 and the EP-507 for $65. Have you heard the 507 pads on a SR404? I don't mind an extra $20 if they improve the sound.


----------



## Whitigir

staticdynamo said:


> I met a STAX sales person at an event in Ginza today. I asked some questions face to face. He said neither of the release date nor the price of SRM-D10 is decided. I believe in him.



Did u ask him about Limited Sr-009 ? Or next Omega ?


----------



## 336881

givemetacos said:


> Thanks, I'm only able to find the EP-234 for $45 and the EP-507 for $65. Have you heard the 507 pads on a SR404? I don't mind an extra $20 if they improve the sound.



I'm going to get ear pads from Vesper Audio. I actually liked the brown ear pads more. It's pleather but its premium which is better imo than the cheap leather used on the 507 pads. The Vesper pads look like the real deal finally.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Whitigir said:


> Did u ask him about Limited Sr-009 ? Or next Omega ?



The 009 doesn't have any compromises, the best tech, the best possible materials, constructing etc. I'm not sure the areas they normally improve on with limited models apply to the 009. 

I think what you asked about regarding a new omega is the way it's likely to go when/if they try to release a new flagship.


----------



## givemetacos

antimatter said:


> I'm going to get ear pads from Vesper Audio. I actually liked the brown ear pads more. It's pleather but its premium which is better imo than the cheap leather used on the 507 pads. The Vesper pads look like the real deal finally.



Interesting, I have never heard of that company but those pads do look nice. Though it seems they are using custom designs which worries me a bit since pads have such a big influence on the sound changes. I'm curious how much they are selling 404 replacement pads for?


----------



## 336881

givemetacos said:


> Interesting, I have never heard of that company but those pads do look nice. Though it seems they are using custom designs which worries me a bit since pads have such a big influence on the sound changes. I'm curious how much they are selling 404 replacement pads for?



I wouldn't worry about the custom design. From what I have read ESP 950 owners really seem to like them. I'm have emailed them and should have a price soon.


----------



## bmichels

Has anyone some news about the next HeadAmp’s « all tube » electrostatic Amp that will top the BHSE ?


----------



## staticdynamo

Whitigir said:


> Did u ask him about Limited Sr-009 ? Or next Omega ?


No, I didn't.


----------



## staticdynamo

givemetacos said:


> Thanks, I'm only able to find the EP-234 for $45 and the EP-507 for $65. Have you heard the 507 pads on a SR404? I don't mind an extra $20 if they improve the sound.


I'm sorry I haven't. Currently I have only SR-404Limited(with 507's head band) , SRS-002 and SR-L700.


----------



## SeaWo|f (Mar 25, 2018)

bmichels said:


> Has anyone some news about the next HeadAmp’s « all tube » electrostatic Amp that will top the BHSE ?



I have tried to bait Justin a bunch of times into making a comment on it. He hasn't bitten yet.

Edit :: Looks like recently he has been working hard on a new GS1 along with the glimor lite that he finished not too long ago. Maybe these are a break from the stats amp project.


----------



## joseph69

SeaWo|f said:


> Looks like recently he has been working hard on a new GS1 along with the glimor lite that he finished not too long ago.


Just curious as to why you mentioned the works of a new GS1? I vaguely remember reading about a possibly balanced GS1 awhile ago, is this what you're referring to? If so, where have you read more about this?


----------



## givemetacos

staticdynamo said:


> I'm sorry I haven't. Currently I have only SR-404Limited(with 507's head band) , SRS-002 and SR-L700.



Oh would you mind giving a comparison of SR404LE and L700?


----------



## nepherte

joseph69 said:


> Just curious as to why you mentioned the works of a new GS1? I vaguely remember reading about a possibly balanced GS1 awhile ago, is this what you're referring to? If so, where have you read more about this?


It's coming for sure. You can read about it on the other forum.


----------



## joseph69

nepherte said:


> It's coming for sure. You can read about it on the other forum.


Yes, I was informed by PM and I've already been over there. Thank you.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I built my new cabinet with limited shelf space, and this is why^^ if I had a place to put it I would end up with dozens of amps on impulse. 

Sometimes I wish I didn't live in the middle of nowhere so I could at least get the chance to demo things for my own satisfaction. I'll forget about all this however, the next time I ride the 150 yards from my drive way onto a trail going up into the Sierras.


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

You know how there is the mounting rings on the new Lambda series pads? Is there anywhere I can get mounting rings like that to put on custom lambda shaped pads. I DO not want the Socas pad adapter for traditional type pads.


----------



## JayKay47

VRacer-111 said:


> Spritzer = Mjolnir Audio, scroll to bottom of this page for info on his (Spritzer) Modded SRD-7:
> 
> https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/
> 
> Have it and it pairs extremely well with my NAD C275BEE stereo amp.



What headphones are those?


----------



## wuwhere

JayKay47 said:


> What headphones are those?



I believe Koss ESP950


----------



## VRacer-111 (Mar 26, 2018)

JayKay47 said:


> What headphones are those?





wuwhere said:


> I believe Koss ESP950



Correct...





If only STAX Lambdas were as comfortable and light as the Koss ESP950 they would be perfect.


----------



## ahmedie

original omega only 10 hours use only anyone? https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/j478960857


----------



## SeaWo|f

It will reach some crazy price.


----------



## Whitigir

Holy crap...already breaking 5k mark


----------



## staticdynamo

For me, the main point of STAX SRM-D10 is not to take the earspeakers out. 
Taking bias current from the battery, how the sound of earspeakers will change? 
If it gives  advantages in sound like SRS-002, it will worth obtaining.


----------



## staticdynamo

Today, I went to Nakano, in Tokyo  to listen to STAX SRM-D10 with  my A&ultima Sp1000
copper and SR-L700. I had a very good impression. Though the date or release
and the price is not decided, I will buy one.


----------



## rpeebles

staticdynamo said:


> Today, I went to Nakano, in Tokyo  to listen to STAX SRM-D10 with  my A&ultima Sp1000
> copper and SR-L700. I had a very good impression. Though the date or release
> and the price is not decided, I will buy one.



Mmm...interesting. I have the SR-L-700 working from  a KingSound M-03 portable amp. Very convenient/good sound. Wonder how much better the STAX SRM-D10 would sound ? What amp are you normally using with your SR-L-700 ? Thanks.


----------



## staticdynamo

rpeebles said:


> Mmm...interesting. I have the SR-L-700 working from  a KingSound M-03 portable amp. Very convenient/good sound. Wonder how much better the STAX SRM-D10 would sound ? What amp are you normally using with your SR-L-700 ? Thanks.


I usually use STAX SRM-007tA Drive Unit Amplifier. I don't have any portable amplifiers for SR-L700 now.
For portable use, I carry my AUDEZE LCDi4 or STAX SRS-002.


----------



## bmichels (Mar 31, 2018)

staticdynamo said:


> Today, I went to Nakano, in Tokyo  to listen to STAX SRM-D10 with  my A&ultima Sp1000
> copper and SR-L700. I had a very good impression. Though the date or release
> and the price is not decided, I will buy one.



*you do not need to wait... just buy a KingSound M-03 *

With a SP1000 you do not need an external DAC/Amp, just an Amp.... and this is what the KingSound is : A very good Electrostatic Amp.

Plus the fact that the M-03 offer... *50 hours of battery life ( !! ) w*ith the Stax and has a 5 volts USB out, allow me to also use it as a Battery Bank to recharge my A&K SP1000 DAP ! And also he can drive dynamic/ortho headphone !!

I* use the KingSound M-03 with my SP1000 and SR009 and the sound is excellent. * Not at the level of my BHSE of course, but... surprisely good !   Jude tested my combo last year ans also was very surprised.

For this reason I have since *s**hortened my SR009 cable from 2,5 m down to 1,2 meter (see here my "crazy" mod)* to make a "transportable" electrostatic solution that fit (SR009 + KingSound + SP1000) in a nice case.


----------



## staticdynamo

I never use King Sound's products with STAX earspeakers. I know and respect the history of STAX and
its products. Of course I know about King Sound. But I never respect it.


----------



## staticdynamo

My choice is to use this combination: A&ultima SP1000 Copper → Crystal Connect Ultra Diamond 0.15m cable → STAX SRM-D10 drive amplifier → STAX SR-L700.
If the cable is too long I use my clip.


----------



## Whitigir

Awesome, the Stax clip brought me smiles ! Thanks


----------



## rpeebles

staticdynamo said:


> I usually use STAX SRM-007tA Drive Unit Amplifier. I don't have any portable amplifiers for SR-L700 now.
> For portable use, I carry my AUDEZE LCDi4 or STAX SRS-002.


Thanks. Do you know how the STAX SRM-007tA Drive Unit Amplifier would compare to the *STAX SRM-323S Driver.* I prefer brighter & detailed sound.


----------



## staticdynamo

givemetacos said:


> Oh would you mind giving a comparison of SR404LE and L700?


There are many differences between SR404LE and L700. In sound, L700 is far more detailed than SR404LE. L700
reproduces more energetic and transparent sound.  I used to use 404LE with STAX SRM-T1S (very old tube one) .But with new SRM-007tA,
404LE began to sound  more energetic . Not so detailed as L700, but straight. I like both of them.


----------



## staticdynamo

rpeebles said:


> Thanks. Do you know how the STAX SRM-007tA Drive Unit Amplifier would compare to the *STAX SRM-323S Driver.* I prefer brighter & detailed sound.


I'm sorry I haven't used solid-state  drive amplifier for STAX for years at home. So I can't compare my SRM-007tA with SRM-323S Driver. 
SRM-007tA has detailed sound and is not dark, not yin, I think. As the character of SRM-007tA, I feel much energy in high frequency compared to
my old SRM-T1S drive amplifier. Of course more detailed and more transparent.


----------



## oneguy (Mar 31, 2018)

Another rare find up for grabs: https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/j479479102

The SR Omega just auctioned for around $12k USD. The one about a month ago went for around $8.5K USD. 

The same T2 owner is selling an Omega as well:
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r237434767

What a lengendary pair!


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 31, 2018)

Holy macaroni and cheese ! My T2 feels lonely


----------



## JayKay47

staticdynamo said:


> I'm sorry I haven't used solid-state  drive amplifier for STAX for years at home. So I can't compare my SRM-007tA with SRM-323S Driver.
> SRM-007tA has detailed sound and is not dark, not yin, I think. As the character of SRM-007tA, I feel much energy in high frequency compared to
> my old SRM-T1S drive amplifier. Of course more detailed and more transparent.


Was your SRM-T1S re-capped or have new tubes installed? Doing both of these updates greatly improved the top end and detail in my SRM-T1S. It was not a small difference, rather significant.


----------



## GarageBoy

Considering the t1 and 007t aren't that different


----------



## staticdynamo

JayKay47 said:


> Was your SRM-T1S re-capped or have new tubes installed? Doing both of these updates greatly improved the top end and detail in my SRM-T1S. It was not a small difference, rather significant.


Thank you for your advice. I used my SRM-T1S replacing  tubes once a year (STAX sent me replace manual, so I did it myself) but not recapping. I switched the amplifier to new SRM-007tA.
In fact, after using SR-L700 with SRM-T1S, i realized my SRM-T1S too old to drive new earspeakers. I' sure installation of new tubes and recapping will bring great change for SRM-T1S.
But no longer I will use SRM-T1S. I will use SRM-007tA. Anyway, thank you for the good advice.


----------



## JayKay47

staticdynamo said:


> Thank you for your advice. I used my SRM-T1S replacing  tubes once a year (STAX sent me replace manual, so I did it myself) but not recapping. I switched the amplifier to new SRM-007tA.
> In fact, after using SR-L700 with SRM-T1S, i realized my SRM-T1S too old to drive new earspeakers. I' sure installation of new tubes and recapping will bring great change for SRM-T1S.
> But no longer I will use SRM-T1S. I will use SRM-007tA. Anyway, thank you for the good advice.


The SRM-T1S is not too old to drive new Lambda earspeakers


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 1, 2018)

I just heard Stax leaks about the next Omega.  *It will have a cone diaphragm and while utilizing the motions of Planar Electro static (instead of voice coil to move the diaphragm, the whole cone-diaphragm now will move based on the electrode that surround it)*.  This is the combine technologies of dynamic and electro static all together.  Due to the cost of productions, this next Omega is code named Omega-X, the price is thought to be around $25,000.

Why have Stax came to this development ? Because Stax had always been chasing the epitome of sound reproductions, and this thought of combining technologies had not been brought into reality due to limited manufacturing capability, and can only be done now.

Stax will also release Large loud speakers pair which carry the same technology with code name Omega-S and Omega-O.  The S is the superiority and hence will be Stax flagship.  The price is thought to be around $750,000/pair.  There will only be 125 units made with the exception of a few pairs to go around world shows, which will have no series number on it.




*cheer April fool*


----------



## staticdynamo

JayKay47 said:


> The SRM-T1S is not too old to drive new Lambda earspeakers


I don't know how good your SRM-T1S sounds. After listening my SRM-T1S with SR-L700 for two weeks, I felt my SRM-T1S was 
insufficient to drive SR-L700. So I ordered SRM-007tA. That's all.


----------



## JayKay47 (Apr 1, 2018)

staticdynamo said:


> I don't know how good your SRM-T1S sounds. After listening my SRM-T1S with SR-L700 for two weeks, I felt my SRM-T1S was
> insufficient to drive SR-L700. So I ordered SRM-007tA. That's all.


 LIke I said, Your SRM-T1S was not fully refurbished and it's not fair to compare it against a fresh amp, unless you have heard both side by side when they are at factory spec.


----------



## JimL11

staticdynamo said:


> Thank you for your advice. I used my SRM-T1S replacing  tubes once a year (STAX sent me replace manual, so I did it myself) but not recapping. I switched the amplifier to new SRM-007tA.
> In fact, after using SR-L700 with SRM-T1S, i realized my SRM-T1S too old to drive new earspeakers. I' sure installation of new tubes and recapping will bring great change for SRM-T1S.
> But no longer I will use SRM-T1S. I will use SRM-007tA. Anyway, thank you for the good advice.



The T1S is at least 20 years old. Stax amps run their tubes very conservatively - the T1 series runs the 6FQ7 at less than 60% of max plate dissipation, so they should last for 10,000 hrs or so before needing replacement. Unless you never turned yours off, the tubes do not need to be replaced yearly. Moreover, replacing the tubes too frequently will eventually cause the sockets to loosen. OTOH, electrolytic caps will gradually wear out, and should be replaced after 20 years or so.


----------



## Pahani

staticdynamo said:


> I don't know how good your SRM-T1S sounds. After listening my SRM-T1S with SR-L700 for two weeks, I felt my SRM-T1S was
> insufficient to drive SR-L700. So I ordered SRM-007tA. That's all.





JayKay47 said:


> LIke I said, Your SRM-T1S was not fully refurbished and it's not fair to compare it against a fresh amp, unless you have heard both side by side when they are at factory spec.



Of my 3 low-model Stax amps, my ears rate them in the order of 252S -> SRM-1 Mk2 -> 353X. However, I'm always quick to point out that my particular SRM-1 may need to be recapped and that may change the somewhat thin, bass-light sound I hear.Detail is there, just the sound is a touch off.


----------



## joseph69

Whitigir said:


> I just heard Stax leaks about the next Omega.  *It will have a cone diaphragm and while utilizing the motions of Planar Electro static (instead of voice coil to move the diaphragm, the whole cone-diaphragm now will move based on the electrode that surround it)*.  This is the combine technologies of dynamic and electro static all together.  Due to the cost of productions, this next Omega is code named Omega-X, the price is thought to be around $25,000.
> 
> Why have Stax came to this development ? Because Stax had always been chasing the epitome of sound reproductions, and this thought of combining technologies had not been brought into reality due to limited manufacturing capability, and can only be done now.
> 
> ...


You had me all the way! 
After immediately reading the $25K price tag for the Omega X, in my head I was somehow justifying the purchase.


----------



## thinker

https://www.quartet-lab.com/support


----------



## bearwarrior

thinker said:


> https://www.quartet-lab.com/support


 Interesting


----------



## protoss (Apr 1, 2018)

thinker said:


> https://www.quartet-lab.com/support



Thats nice!

I'll raise you this! The pinnacle of Electrostatic sound and Price !   

http://www.msbtechnology.com/amplifiers/headphone-amp-features/






*MSRP $37,950.00*


----------



## SeaWo|f

The second one.. MSB definitely should be here on April first. 

The first one has some very confusing things with regard to its design. At least to my very limited understanding of amp design.


----------



## Whitigir

protoss said:


> Thats nice!
> 
> I'll raise you this! The pinnacle of Electrostatic sound and Price !
> 
> ...



I bet it will not out perform my glorious KG T2 with XF2 Nos .  It also look much better than both of the above


----------



## SeaWo|f

Which input tubes have you opted for?


----------



## Whitigir

Philips NosE88cc SQ


----------



## SeaWo|f

Cool another well respected NOS tube. Myself or my friends  have never had an amp that runs that type so I've never heard them.


----------



## staticdynamo

JayKay47 said:


> LIke I said, Your SRM-T1S was not fully refurbished and it's not fair to compare it against a fresh amp, unless you have heard both side by side when they are at factory spec.


I believe in my ears and I decided. And It's my problem, not yours. Further discussion will not be fruitful.


----------



## Sinery

I'm considering getting L700s and have some questions:

1) Any reason I shouldn't put the Vesper leather pads on them?
2) Is it worth looking at the 727ii(unmodded) over the 353x? Feels rather moot to pay the big buck to get a still flawed amp and tubes don't excite me.
3) Local store say they sell 230V version of the amps, but do they even exist? If it's recommended to run a 230->240 adapter I fell I may as well get the 100V version on the cheap.


----------



## rpeebles

Sinery said:


> I'm considering getting L700s and have some questions:
> 
> 1) Any reason I shouldn't put the Vesper leather pads on them?
> 2) Is it worth looking at the 727ii(unmodded) over the 353x? Feels rather moot to pay the big buck to get a still flawed amp and tubes don't excite me.
> 3) Local store say they sell 230V version of the amps, but do they even exist? If it's recommended to run a 230->240 adapter I fell I may as well get the 100V version on the cheap.



Thanks I have a similar question: just got the L-700 and now in the search for an amp. Had even heard the 
STAX SRM-323S would be a good alternative. Any views ?


----------



## 336881

staticdynamo said:


> There are many differences between SR404LE and L700. In sound, L700 is far more detailed than SR404LE. L700
> reproduces more energetic and transparent sound.  I used to use 404LE with STAX SRM-T1S (very old tube one) .But with new SRM-007tA,
> 404LE began to sound  more energetic . Not so detailed as L700, but straight. I like both of them.



I like your combo. Working man's 009/007mk1.


----------



## 336881

Sinery said:


> I'm considering getting L700s and have some questions:
> 
> 1) Any reason I shouldn't put the Vesper leather pads on them?
> 2) Is it worth looking at the 727ii(unmodded) over the 353x? Feels rather moot to pay the big buck to get a still flawed amp and tubes don't excite me.
> 3) Local store say they sell 230V version of the amps, but do they even exist? If it's recommended to run a 230->240 adapter I fell I may as well get the 100V version on the cheap.





rpeebles said:


> Thanks I have a similar question: just got the L-700 and now in the search for an amp. Had even heard the
> STAX SRM-323S would be a good alternative. Any views ?



Just get the Mjolnir Octave v2. It makes my 404LE's sing.


----------



## JayKay47

staticdynamo said:


> I believe in my ears and I decided. And It's my problem, not yours. Further discussion will not be fruitful.


Oh yes further discussion will be fruitful for people that don't want to spend more money or can't afford too.. Maybe you're trying to justify the extra expense on the 007tA, and you will mislead other's into spending more $$$ than necessary without all the facts, and variables being equal.


----------



## protoss (Apr 1, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> I bet it will not out perform my glorious KG T2 with XF2 Nos .  It also look much better than both of the above



You cheating! The mighty T2 clone will always win !

But I have to say MSB technology is really high end. No joke! Only problem is they are super expensive.
What is wrong with them to make a $100,000 Dac (The Select DAC). They lost their mind 

Review - https://www.stereophile.com/content/msb-select-dac

Detail Review - https://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/09/msb-select-dac-2-review-part-1.html


----------



## SeaWo|f

I just have this sneaking suspicion that they are taking advantage of their reputation and people who have far more money than sense.


----------



## joseph69

Whitigir said:


> I bet it will not out perform my glorious KG T2 with XF2 Nos .  It also look much better than both of the above


What's with the suspension strap being treated that way?


----------



## Whitigir

joseph69 said:


> What's with the suspension strap being treated that way?



Lol , that was before I ordered the Woo stand


----------



## Whitigir

protoss said:


> You cheating! The mighty T2 clone will always win !
> 
> But I have to say MSB technology is really high end. No joke! Only problem is they are super expensive.
> What is wrong with them to make a $100,000 Dac (The Select DAC). They lost their mind
> ...



Why not ? In this day and age, a headphones Cables can cost 4k


----------



## Ali-Pacha

thinker said:


> https://www.quartet-lab.com/support


Looking at the website, it's a grounded grid amp. No idea why the PSU is so large.

Ali


----------



## Whitigir

Ali-Pacha said:


> Looking at the website, it's a grounded grid amp. No idea why the PSU is so large.
> 
> Ali



Now, you mentioned it.  It does look like the Grounded Grid.  If the psu is that large, it probably be for the large capacitors.  What is the pricing on it ?


----------



## protoss (Apr 2, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> Why not ? In this day and age, a headphones Cables can cost 4k



$4000 cables are still cheap compare the stuff i seen thou.

I know a guy who has a $35,000 cable, $20,000 connectors and $10,000 speaker cables ! LMAO

I told him he lost his mind. And he said "Yes" i did.   Hahahhahhaahaha


----------



## JimL11 (Apr 2, 2018)

thinker said:


> https://www.quartet-lab.com/support



Did anyone look at the specs?!?

The listed total power consumption is only 80 watts. If you subtract 40 watts for the filament power of the four EL34 tubes, that leaves only 40 watts. Note that the SRM-T1 has a power consumption of 45 watts, if you subtract the filament power of its two 6FQ7 tubes, that leaves 37 watts, which is nearly identical. Hell, my SRX-Plus draws 66 watts - subtract the filament power for four 12AT7s and two 6SN7GTBs, and the rest of amp draws --- 41 watts. By contrast, the BHSE consumes 180 watts, the DIY T2 over 200 watts.

And then, on top of that, they claim it can put out up to 15 watts/channel. A stereo amp, so that means a total of 30 watts for both channels. Now, remember that the theoretical maximum efficiency for a push-pull class A amp is 50%, and the theoretical maximum efficiency for a push-pull class B amp is 67%. And they claim 30 watts maximum with a 40 watt power consumption, which is 75%. This is beyond state of the art. It's beyond state of the possible.


----------



## Whitigir

Wow, I honestly skip all of those specs and details.  Thanks for the info Jim.  I am busy with T2 taping my ears lol...I may be a crazy one that i enjoy Bolero, Instruments, and even EDM on my T2 and 009.  I even use them to justify it performances overall.  Especially this track, skip to 1:13 if you are impatient

Listen to all that satisfaction bass, sub bass, high, and ...etc...


----------



## Jones Bob

JimL11 said:


> Did anyone look at the specs?!?
> 
> The listed total power consumption is only 80 watts. If you subtract 40 watts for the filament power of the four EL34 tubes, that leaves only 40 watts. Note that the SRM-T1 has a power consumption of 45 watts, if you subtract the filament power of its two 6FQ7 tubes, that leaves 37 watts, which is nearly identical. Hell, my SRX-Plus draws 66 watts - subtract the filament power for four 12AT7s and two 6SN7GTBs, and the rest of amp draws --- 41 watts. By contrast, the BHSE consumes 180 watts, the DIY T2 over 200 watts.
> 
> And then, on top of that, they claim it can put out up to 15 watts/channel. A stereo amp, so that means a total of 30 watts for both channels. Now, remember that the theoretical maximum efficiency for a push-pull class A amp is 50%, and the theoretical maximum efficiency for a push-pull class B amp is 67%. And they claim 30 watts maximum with a 40 watt power consumption, which is 75%. This is beyond state of the art. It's beyond state of the possible.



Assuming the specs listed by the people who brazenly steal IP were technically correct to begin with....


----------



## JimL11

Whitigir said:


> Wow, I honestly skip all of those specs and details.



It's true that, most of the time, the specs don't tell you much. But occasionally, they do, as in this case, when they break the laws of electrical engineering, i.e., lie. Tells you to be wary.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Based on the the name of the site the guy doing it has and might still be selling other KG amps on Chinese places like this

https://www.yoycart.com/Product/44186651831/


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 2, 2018)

Seriously ? Just wow...that doesn’t look like a scam at all *sacarsm*


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Wasn't he (quartet labs/xianghao) banned at the other forum because he didn't know how to properly build the amps and also sold them in Taobao/Yoycart?

So, resuming, the guy builds the amps WRONG,  does not give credit to the original designers (Kevin Gilmore/Spritzer) and tries to earn money using those disgusting bussiness practices?

Just awful...I hope he goes bankrupt like Singlepower (sends too many butchered amps, can't keep with the repairs, everyone hates him) or even worse, that's what he deserves.


----------



## SeaWo|f (Apr 2, 2018)

Yea that's the guy, but he is in China so I doubt anything will ever happen to him. It's a shame because there are good companies from there like audio gd.


----------



## Whitigir

SeaWo|f said:


> Yea that's the guy, but he is in China so I doubt anything will ever happen to him. It's a shame because their are good companies from there like audio gd.


And LKS  I love the LKS Da004.  Their customer service is also top notch.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

SeaWo|f said:


> Yea that's the guy, but he is in China so I doubt anything will ever happen to him. It's a shame because their are good companies from there like audio gd.





Whitigir said:


> And LKS  I love the LKS Da004.  Their customer service is also top notch.



Yes, in fact, there are 1.3 billion of chinese people (and that's only in China), I guess some of them want to be original and do the best they can.
They have some really stunning porcelain and silks.

I feel bad for these small number of people, because thanks to the big number of talent-less pyrates like quartet labs (or any other that does the same), there's a big stigma with anything that is manufactured in China...it must be really frustrating to try to make something and have your reputation damaged for a bunch of people not related to you.


----------



## VRacer-111

Got e-mail from Woo Audio, the L300LE is shipping and should be here by the end of the week...


----------



## Sinery

A few days ago I asked the local Stax retailer to order the 300LE for me.
Today they replied that they're going to notify me when they arrive.

I shall have to inform you all should I actually receive them.


----------



## staticdynamo

JayKay47 said:


> Oh yes further discussion will be fruitful for people that don't want to spend more money or can't afford too.. Maybe you're trying to justify the extra expense on the 007tA, and you will mislead other's into spending more $$$ than necessary without all the facts, and variables being equal.


What mislead? Why do I have to justify? How long have you used your STAX? I have used my SRM-T1S for 23years. it's a period long enough. I have used STAX products for about 40 years 
(including STAX speakers). 
I have met Mr. Hayashi, who established STAX for some times at 'Audio Fair' in Tokyo and at the STAX listening room in Ikebukuro in Tokyo. ( Now STAX doesn't have such room in Tokyo any more)
He was a good old man. I visited the listening room many times and listened to amps and speakers of STAX. You know about STAX sound more than me? I never believe in it.  Of course I didn't listen
 to all the products of STAX, but about earspeskers, I followed STAX until now. SRM-007tA was necessary to draw the full performance of SR-L700. And thanks to SRM-007tA, SR-404 Limited revived.


----------



## natto lover

Sinery said:


> A few days ago I asked the local Stax retailer to order the 300LE for me.
> Today they replied that they're going to notify me when they arrive.
> 
> I shall have to inform you all should I actually receive them.


might be waiting a while, May was the estimated ship date before they went out of stock weeks ago


----------



## ahmedie

L300limited on auction https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/p601026890


----------



## JayKay47

staticdynamo said:


> What mislead? Why do I have to justify? How long have you used your STAX? I have used my SRM-T1S for 23years. it's a period long enough. I have used STAX products for about 40 years
> (including STAX speakers).
> I have met Mr. Hayashi, who established STAX for some times at 'Audio Fair' in Tokyo and at the STAX listening room in Ikebukuro in Tokyo. ( Now STAX doesn't have such room in Tokyo any more)
> He was a good old man. I visited the listening room many times and listened to amps and speakers of STAX. You know about STAX sound more than me? I never believe in it.  Of course I didn't listen
> to all the products of STAX, but about earspeskers, I followed STAX until now. SRM-007tA was necessary to draw the full performance of SR-L700. And thanks to SRM-007tA, SR-404 Limited revived.


I listened to SRM-T1S for 24 years... I AM STAX !!!


----------



## staticdynamo

JayKay47 said:


> I listened to SRM-T1S for 24 years... I AM STAX !!!


No, you aren't. Don't pretend to know about STAX. You know only a part of what STAX had made in the past and what STAX is going to make. 
Insist on SRM-T1S. Of course I tried SRM-006tS and after that I purchased SRM-007tA. I know one of true high-end audio shops and through them,
I can get in contact with STAX. Insist on SRM-T1S. Your words mean nothing to me.


----------



## JayKay47

staticdynamo said:


> No, you aren't. Don't pretend to know about STAX. You know only a part of what STAX had made in the past and what STAX is going to make.
> Insist on SRM-T1S. Of course I tried SRM-006tS and after that I purchased SRM-007tA. I know one of true high-end audio shops and through them,
> I can get in contact with STAX. Insist on SRM-T1S. Your words mean nothing to me.


I AM STAX !!!


----------



## joseph69

I used to watch a game show like this with my grandmother when I was little called 'To Tell The Truth'. 
Will the real Stax please step forward?


----------



## VRacer-111 (Apr 3, 2018)

JayKay47 said:


> I AM STAX !!!



[Sparticus]I AM STAX!!!! [/Sparticus]


----------



## staticdynamo

Putting the false STAX aside, for people who needs matching amplifier for STAX SR-L700, this article of 'The Absolute Sound' may become some hints.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/stax-sr-l700-headphone/?page=2    I haven't heard solid-state drive amplifier for STAX earspeakers except
for SRM-353X BK and SR-L300 Limited combo recently. The combo was pretty good, but it was only five minutes' listening. Don't trust, please.
 STAX is STAX. Not a man. Of course I'm not STAX.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 4, 2018)

Well, be open minded and humor him a bit.  I believe he meant “I Am Groot!” Kakaka

This character always amaze me.  All he says is “I am groot” and you can take it for whatever....the more you are with him, the closer you are, you would understand him better.  But, you can translate that into whatever kakakaka


----------



## JayKay47

staticdynamo said:


> Putting the false STAX aside, for people who needs matching amplifier for STAX SR-L700, this article of 'The Absolute Sound' may become some hints.
> http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/stax-sr-l700-headphone/?page=2    I haven't heard solid-state drive amplifier for STAX earspeakers except
> for SRM-353X BK and SR-L300 Limited combo recently. The combo was pretty good, but it was only five minutes' listening. Don't trust, please.
> STAX is STAX. Not a man. Of course I'm not STAX.


Today is my 25th anniversary listening to STAX !!!


----------



## staticdynamo

Whitigir said:


> Well, be open minded and humor him a bit.  I believe he meant “I Am Groot!” Kakaka
> 
> This character always amaze me.  All he says is “I am groot” and you can take it for whatever....the more you are with him, the closer you are, you would understand him better.  But, you can translate that into whatever kakakaka


Thank you for your advice. I like the character, too. And also 'The Guardians of Galaxy.  I will leave this thread  a while.


----------



## Whitigir

staticdynamo said:


> Thank you for your advice. I like the character, too. And also 'The Guardians of Galaxy.  I will leave this thread  a while.



Common, stay with us, you still have not helped me out here, and I have been waiting for a week now.  Please help me ask Stax to leak me something regarding the next Omega


----------



## Lv100Pidgeot

My L300LE+SRM-353XBK showed up today. I can't really give you guys a detailed review or comparison- this is my first stax setup. So far I'm really enjoying them though!


----------



## Whitigir

JayKay47 said:


> Today is my 25th anniversary listening to STAX !!!


Today is probably the day of my first anniversary with Stax, but it only took 1 year for me to get to this level of having KG T2 for it...Stax can make you do crazy things


----------



## staticdynamo

The last writing before leaving. There were some changes in STAX Japanese homepage. They renewed their homepage
and deleted the history of STAX old products pages and detailed history of the company pages. Whether those pages will be 
uploaded again or not is not clear. And about SRM-D10, today STAX has only analogue technology. STAX cannot make
SRM-D10 alone in Japan. They need the help of others who have digital technology. It may be the answer of the printed
'made in China'. I don't know whether all the STAX products will become 'made in China' or not.  But some changes will
happen in this year, I think.  About next 'Omega', I wonder if STAX has a plan to do it. I know the most important sales person in
STAX ( He predicted  SR-L300~700 earspeakers a few years before the release). I will ask him if I have a chance, but
don't expect, please.


----------



## bofmar

*This question is for the L300 Limited owners*... could you describe me the sound characteristics of this headphone? in Italy we are all still waiting it because it's not yet arrived.
After a period of burn in are they very very similar to the L700?
And compared with the regular L300?
is it the clamp strenght  on the ears very similar to the L700? are they comfy?

Thanks in advance and sorry for my poor english


----------



## protoss (Apr 4, 2018)

Wow theres a Stax battle happening here ! I am also going to join the fun  !

I Am Stax!


----------



## Whitigir

Damn! W000000000, they still look so damn sexy


----------



## Pahani

Lv100Pidgeot said:


> My L300LE+SRM-353XBK showed up today. I can't really give you guys a detailed review or comparison- this is my first stax setup. So far I'm really enjoying them though!



Pics or it didn't happen!


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

protoss said:


> Wow theres a Stax battle happening here ! I am also going to join the fun  !
> 
> I Am Stax!


That's wonderful! They don't produce it anymore, I guess Stax doesn't have it in "stox"


----------



## protoss (Apr 4, 2018)

ToroFiestaSol said:


> That's wonderful! They don't produce it anymore, I guess Stax doesn't have it in "stox"



Yea it is a shame ! Stax Quattro Series II is one of the greatest CD-Players ever to be made! From the golden era of the late 1980s. The custom made Dac that the Quattro II has is Sweet and musical. Very beautful and lush. Its soo musical and euphoric feeling

A quick refresher,

*From STAX catalog,*

The STAX CD player is designed to achieve the following objectives:
1. Powerful and deep bass, smooth and transparent highs;
2. Accurate response and wide dynamic range without smudging;
3. Reproduction of the exact resolution of the music
4. "Live" atmosphere with deeper and broader sound stage.

To achieve these goals, were a number of constructive measures. Thus, as in the first "Quattro" STAX by the function of the drive from those of Digital-analog converter getrepnt. A 18-bit 8-times oversampling system is used digital filter with high precision. High-quality components such as resistors made of tantalum can be used.

Different outputs for low-impedance cables or long cables are available. The technical data speak for themselves. In an analog low-pass filter was omitted. The outputs are placed without any capacity directly to the RCA jacks. Multiple power supplies provide the circuits independently.

Specifications: CDP QUATTRO II
Frequency range 0-20 kHz + / - 0.1 dB
KHz de-emphasis deviation 0-16 + / - 0.05 dB
Fixed + 2.2 V outputs Direct, 560 ohms
Buffered Fixed + 2.2 V, 100 Ohms
Variable + Buffered 0-2.2 V, 100 Ohms
Distortion (all outputs)
0.0015% at 0 - 8 kHz / 0 dB
0.002% at 10-20 kHz / 0 dB
0.015% at -20 dB
1.4% at -60 dB
Dynamic range 104 dB
Signal to Noise Ratio 118 dB
Less than 1 mV DC offset




 

My personal opinion, this is pretty much one of the best of the best next to my PD-91.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

protoss said:


> Yea it is a shame ! Stax Quattro Series II is one of the greatest CD-Players ever to be made! From the golden era of the late 1980s. The custom made Dac that the Quattro II has is Sweet and musical. Very beautful and lush. Its soo musical and euphoric feeling
> 
> A quick refresher,
> 
> ...



Oh, I was expecting a reaction for my try for the lamest pun in Head-fi's history (stock+stax= "stox")
But that's great to know, it certainly looks wonderful


----------



## zolkis

protoss said:


> Yea it is a shame ! Stax Quattro Series II is one of the greatest CD-Players ever to be made! From the golden era of the late 1980s. The custom made Dac that the Quattro II has is Sweet and musical. Very beautiful and lush. Its soo musical and euphoric feeling.



I agree. It's funny others discovered it too, I thought it was totally obscure. But now that we are at it, IMHO it is a unique gem and holds value incredibly well. Actually there are quite a lot of CD players with the same optical pickup, DSP and parallel input DAC, but AFAIK only the Stax Quattro used double DAC configuration. I can attest it is one of the best CD sources I have heard (and have heard the most), even better than the best TDA1541-based players. The clarity, openness, resolution, dynamic rendering, ease of flow and musicality are addicting. It is rarely on sale, but the same thing can also be assembled from certain old CD players (needs two boards though), and with a modern power supply and analog stage it is easily top reference quality for relatively little money. This is the reference I am trying to get close to with digital players/streamers/servers (an ever ongoing project).


----------



## ahmedie

Stax is a small company and now they are being owned by a Chinese company. Don't know when they got boughted.


----------



## ahmedie

Deleted


----------



## wuwhere

ahmedie said:


> Stax is a small company and now they are being owned by a Chinese company. Don't know when they got boughted.



https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...ses-famous-electrostatic-headphone-maker-stax


----------



## Roger5

JayKay47 said:


> Today is my 25th anniversary listening to STAX !!!



Can confirm, I was there 25 years ago when he first listened to STAX!!!


----------



## natto lover

Hi all, question. My 007-Mk1 has unfortunately developed some intermittence in the left channel. It's only an occasional problem, and while not a huge deal I would like to get it fixed at some point.

Mainly wondering how straightforward the cable replacement is, as there is very little info from those who have done the process. I have soldering experience but am unfamiliar with the precautions needed when working with delicate electrostats. The cable itself is also ~$125...yikes!

Another option is to wait until I'm back in Japan in a few months where Stax themselves can repair it, but that's going to be a while and will cost around double the price of my DIY method. Might be worth the peace of mind though. If anyone knows of competent repair services in the US I would be open to that as well.

Thanks for any insight.


----------



## zolkis

natto lover said:


> Hi all, question. My 007-Mk1 has unfortunately developed some intermittence in the left channel. It's only an occasional problem, and while not a huge deal I would like to get it fixed at some point.
> 
> Mainly wondering how straightforward the cable replacement is, as there is very little info from those who have done the process.



Yes, you need to get the cable changed. The damage is likely in the triangular part that joins the cable to the headphone. 
I recommend the factory method. If you do it yourself, your headphone may drop more in value than the price difference for cable change.

However, if you want to do it yourself, it should be quite simple:
- Open the driver. There are 3 flat copper cable terminations on the drivers that are folded (in order to fit the case but also have sufficient length). 
- Take a photo. Prepare solder wire (normal one, or with low melting point anyway), soldering flux, pincers, etc. Heat up the soldering iron up to 350, max 400 C.
- Apply a small blob of soldering flux at the soldered joint and with a calm, careful single touch get the old cable detached (3 times).
- Only after de-soldering remove the old cable from the housing.
- Play a bit with the old cable to see how it heats up and how it works with your solder wire and flux (needed for the next phase).

Reverse process for attaching the new cable:
- Attach the cable to the housing, align the driver cable terminations, check polarity.
- Apply a small amount of soldering flux to both ends.
- With a single, calm, long enough touch solder the terminations, one by one.
- Assemble the housing.

I would not really recommend this procedure for occasional hobbyists, but if one has a _routine_ in soldering, it should be fine. As usual, calm, light hands and mind are needed, don't be afraid and don't hurry. Imagine you're Japanese .


----------



## Tinkerer

I actually have the exact same problem, and I replaced the cable just two years ago. Though I do use it daily. I think I'll just split the strain relief along the seam to reuse it and shorten the cable to resolder rather than buying a new one this time. 007 Mk I just has those kind of strain relief issues unfortunately. Almost always gets the intermittent short within an inch or two of the cups.


----------



## natto lover (Apr 6, 2018)

zolkis said:


> Yes, you need to get the cable changed. The damage is likely in the triangular part that joins the cable to the headphone.
> I recommend the factory method. If you do it yourself, your headphone may drop more in value than the price difference for cable change.
> 
> However, if you want to do it yourself, it should be quite simple:
> ...





Tinkerer said:


> I actually have the exact same problem, and I replaced the cable just two years ago. Though I do use it daily. I think I'll just split the strain relief along the seam to reuse it and shorten the cable to resolder rather than buying a new one this time. 007 Mk I just has those kind of strain relief issues unfortunately. Almost always gets the intermittent short within an inch or two of the cups.



Thank you both! Will sit on the info for a few days while considering the best option. Splitting the strain relief seems worth trying when a full replacement is the alternative. I'm not too concerned about them losing value, plan to keep them for a while


----------



## natto lover (Apr 7, 2018)

One more question: does it have to be an Mk1 cable, or will an Mk2 cable fit?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## soren_brix

natto lover said:


> One more question: does it have to be an Mk1 cable, or will an Mk2 cable fit?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Cable relief are different between mk1 and mk2.
Splitting the relief as @Tinkerer  suggest is rather easy. @bmichels did it some half a year ago with some 009's .


----------



## natto lover

soren_brix said:


> Cable relief are different between mk1 and mk2.
> Splitting the relief as @Tinkerer  suggest is rather easy. @bmichels did it some half a year ago with some 009's .


that's actually much easier than I imagined..will definitely try that first. Thanks for the detailed link, helps a lot!!


----------



## ahmedie

Not sure if many realize this, but all stax headphones are mostly hand-made


----------



## SeaWo|f (Apr 8, 2018)

That in it's self is far from a guarantee of quality.


----------



## ahmedie

SeaWo|f said:


> That in it's self is far from a guarantee of quality.


That is why they quality assure and test them over a period of 2 months (in case of 009). https://www.fujiya-avic.jp/blog/?p=28326


----------



## oneguy

Disagree. A large part of the HD800 is handmade and I have never heard of quality issues.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I won't get into any more specifics because I'm tired/drinking/lazy, you pick, but failures of quality are no small part of the reason stax is now owned by a Chinese company. Despite them hand making things. The audio world is littered with such examples. 

I say this while listening to 007s. Bought from an authorised American reseller at a slight premium so if they break it's not my problem.


----------



## Whitigir

i think the real issue of Stax is that it started since omega and T2.  Then it really take people 10+ years to appreciate it


----------



## rpeebles

Hi All !

Any news on the STAX portable amplifier ? When it could be in the shops ? (allways hopefull !) And cost ?
Thanks and regards


----------



## Whitigir

Oh, gawd, I have not been looking into Dynamic headphones systems for a while now.  I see all the crazy pricing, $3,000 to $5,000 USD amplifiers.  Then we have Hifiman EF1000 for a _*soft $15000 usd*_.  Then we have MassKodo for a little *medium soft $20,000 usd 
*
This makes a top of the line setup such as KG T2 and 009 appear a little _*softer than soft*_.  Hell, I am glad I am into KG T2 and 009.  The game where Dynamic headphones is heading is so out of this world.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

@Whitigir It has it's good side, now with this price madness, what before was crazy now seems reasonable, thus some respectable manufacturers can step into this.
Just imagine if Accuphase brings a fully balanced pure Class A headphone amp, let's say for 8k. Someone cloth eared buys it, doesn't like it, and then you have a super Accuphase headphone amp for 3k-4k...beautiful, I'll bite that second hand goodness.

Of course, few people will realize what a jewel is because 99% of them judge only by prices, but on the other hand someone will always benefit.
Plus, seeing all this overpriced things and owning some Stax + KG goodness makes one feel smart, and that's a real accomplishment for me hahahahahahahaha


----------



## JimJames

JBL 305 (i know, speakers) vs stax 300? I've read that JBL speakers are better than sennheisers HD 800 so maybe I'd just get these speakers instead of stax 300 and then probablyget a pair of closed back headphones for when I'm at the library. So, will the JBLs do what dynamic headphones can't do and give a more natural and better representation of music than a pair of electrostatics?


----------



## 336881 (Apr 9, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> Oh, gawd, I have not been looking into Dynamic headphones systems for a while now.  I see all the crazy pricing, $3,000 to $5,000 USD amplifiers.  Then we have Hifiman EF1000 for a _*soft $15000 usd*_.  Then we have MassKodo for a little *medium soft $20,000 usd
> *
> This makes a top of the line setup such as KG T2 and 009 appear a little _*softer than soft*_.  Hell, I am glad I am into KG T2 and 009.  The game where Dynamic headphones is heading is so out of this world.



There were actually dynamic headphone amps just as expensive back in the day. Check out Singlepower SDS-XLR. It was cost no object for sure. There is also the Crayon amp and 2 new amps from TTVJ that eclipse the $10k Pinnacle. As good as Stax is I'm not so sure you would want to put any model up against a R10. Hence the mega buckery.


----------



## Whitigir

You are saying the R10 outperform Stax 009 and T2 ?


----------



## protoss

Outperform ? Maybe? But hands down i will take the Mighty R-10 over the 009 in a heart beat! Theres Many Top-tier Amps with the R-10 that will make your mouth drop. Or just Vintage CD-players and Turn-tables!


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 9, 2018)

protoss said:


> Outperform ? Maybe? But hands down i will take the Mighty R-10 over the 009 in a heart beat! Theres Many Top-tier Amps with the R-10 that will make your mouth drop. Or just Vintage CD-players and Turn-tables!



Nice! Sound like the next Sony headphones maybe $20,000 and people will still buy it, if it is really an improved R10

We already have Susvara, $6,000 usd only.  It probably is not even the best of Hifiman yet.  Soon there will be SusvaraS ($10,000), and Susvara-V2 ($15,000).  Then followed by Susvara-Heaven...who knows.  After all, we gotta be thanksful to be living in this days and ages


----------



## protoss (Apr 9, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> Nice! Sound like the next Sony headphones maybe $20,000 and people will still buy it, if it is really an improved R10
> 
> We already have Susvara, $6,000 usd only.  It probably is not even the best of Hifiman yet.  Soon there will be SusvaraS ($10,000), and Susvara-V2 ($15,000).  Then followed by Susvara-Heaven...who knows.  After all, we gotta be thanksful to be living in this days and ages



Sony is done with there Headphone business. They made at least 6 amazing headphones. There headphone business ended in 2004. No need for Susvara.

If its a battle between R-10 vs SR009. R10 didn't even show up to the competition. It has bigger fish to attack like the Orpheus and Omega etch...


----------



## mulveling (Apr 10, 2018)

I owned the R10 long ago (bass-heavy variant), plus I've heard the bass-lite version, and another late-make bass-heavy example, from right before the production finally shut down (the latest model was the best sounding). And I've heard them out of an SDS-XLR. Of course, now I wish I hadn't sold them, due to their current rarity and value. But for me, finding consistent satisfaction with them was extremely frustrating. Even in the bass-heavy versions, the bass is somewhat AWOL by my preferences -- and I'm one who finds the 009 virtually flawless when driven by BHSE or KG T2. The "trick" to fixing the R10 bass, of course, was to pair them with an OTL tube amp, which would interact with the headphone's impedance curve to effectively boost bass -- but without a literal "bass boost" knob which would be audiophile kryptonite.

The problem with this approach, is that the 32 ohm nominal impedance of the R10 meant that OTL tube amps would burn up a crazy amount of their power in their outputs, before it ever reached the R10, and so the sound could turn to mush and distortion surprisingly easily. The SDS-XLR attempted to address this with its balanced circuitry, special output tube selection (first 5687, then 6BX7GT, etc), and various "voicing" tweaks concocted by Mikhail specifically for the R10. I have to admit, when everything was just right, it could sound absolutely wonderful. However, it was NOT an accurate amplification setup. It was literally boosting bass on the R10, with tweaks to stave off the mush.

I really loved the R10 with classical music due to its incredibly natural, beautiful tone, and its absolutely huge (for a headphone) soundstage. No other closed headphone has ever sounded even remotely like that. BUT I'm not a huge classical listener, and so given a choice I'd rather take the Qualia 010 and deal with ITS warts instead (mainly its midrange).

And I still feel that a 009 with KG T2 outright beats all of this legendary-fi gear. With a BHSE it's a decided step down for the 009, and so becomes more of a matter of preference at that point.


----------



## 336881 (Apr 10, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> You are saying the R10 outperform Stax 009 and T2 ?



I'm just saying allot of people forget about the R10 and its subsequent uber amps back in the day. Allot of B22's but there was a few uber amps back in the day.

I actually think the new uber amps from TTVJ are probably worth it. I just think it will be a long time before Sennheiser releases a $5k version of the hd800 which will make it ultimately worth it. I love the hd800. I think it scales tremendously well with the right amp but I'm drawing a line at the $5k Teton for that headphone and I currently own a much less expensive Ecp dsha2.


----------



## headinclouds (Apr 10, 2018)

I’d like to share pictures of my Blue Hawaii.  For some time I was thinking about making myself a single box KGBH 2015 with all Golden Reference power supplies.  The style eventually got influenced by two motor vehicles.  I was driving through Wales on a sunny day last April and came across a load of bikers on big machines.  The Triumph Rocket impressed me and I knew  that I had to have chrome fins and valve covers on my Blue Hawaii.



A few weeks later I parked by a Rolls Royce Dawn and the chrome trim convinced me that this was the way to go.

This is the build which has been a lot of work, but the results are worth it.  I am grateful for the styling finesse brought to it by Julian Hoyes and the advice on many practical matters by colleague Alan.  I wanted to be able to listen in the dark and see the volume setting so it has a ring of leds and an illuminated pointer delayed 65 sec.Here are some pictures;




When I was well into this design Kevin published the Grounded Grid so I had to build that too.  It is nearly finished and in a similar case.

Time for some listening


----------



## GarageBoy

Where do all you diy guys get chassis made? My dad has built a bunch of amps in his life and has used everything from baking pans to aluminum door trim channels


----------



## Jones Bob

headinclouds said:


> I’d like to share pictures of my Blue Hawaii.  For some time I was thinking about making myself a single box KGBH 2015 with all Golden Reference power supplies.  The style eventually got influenced by two motor vehicles.  I was driving through Wales on a sunny day last April and came across a load of bikers on big machines.  The Triumph Rocket impressed me and I knew  that I had to have chrome fins and valve covers on my Blue Hawaii.
> 
> 
> A few weeks later I parked by a Rolls Royce Dawn and the chrome trim convinced me that this was the way to go.
> ...



Pure screen porn. Outstanding build!


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

As always, awesome build headinclouds, built to commercial build quality.   
You can't beat nice chrome parts in the right places.   Like you I love a splashing of chrome.  
Very much looking forward to see it in the flesh soon and once again be honoured to spend time with one of the best hi-fi DIY amplifier builders on our wonderful planet.


----------



## headinclouds (Apr 10, 2018)

GarageBoy said:


> Where do all you diy guys get chassis made? My dad has built a bunch of amps in his life and has used everything from baking pans to aluminum door trim channels


Yes I know the habit!  The long answer is it varies according to the country you’re in.

Many DIY builders use Modushop in Italy and I used their standard cases for three builds.  There are people who will cut and engrave panels.

Some DIYers use Chinese cases on such as Aliexpress.  There is no one shop that will make exactly what I design.  My own builds are designed from the ground up to fit the pcbs and transformers, and then I get the metal laser cut and finished.  I live near Birmingham which was a massive concentration of engineering manufacturing until so much went to the far East.  Luckily there are still workshops that can do the things I want working directly with them.

Thank you for your warm comments guys, the build is a tribute to the quality of the circuit design.


----------



## Whitigir

headinclouds said:


> Yes I know the habit!  The long answer is it varies according to the country you’re in.
> 
> Many DIY builders use Modushop in Italy and I used their standard cases for three builds.  There are people who will cut and engrave panels.
> 
> Some DIYers use Chinese cases on such as Aliexpress.  There is no one shop that will make exactly what I design.  My own builds are designed from the ground up to fit the pcbs and transformers, and then I get the metal laser cut and finished.  I live near Birmingham which was a massive concentration of engineering manufacturing until so much went to the far East.  Luckily there are still workshops that can do the things I want working directly with them.



That is awesome! The hardest thing in DIY is perhap the Chasis and metal works


----------



## oneguy

headinclouds said:


> I’d like to share pictures of my Blue Hawaii.  For some time I was thinking about making myself a single box KGBH 2015 with all Golden Reference power supplies.  The style eventually got influenced by two motor vehicles.  I was driving through Wales on a sunny day last April and came across a load of bikers on big machines.  The Triumph Rocket impressed me and I knew  that I had to have chrome fins and valve covers on my Blue Hawaii.
> 
> 
> A few weeks later I parked by a Rolls Royce Dawn and the chrome trim convinced me that this was the way to go.
> ...


As always a phenomenal job! Truly marvelous


----------



## paradoxper

headinclouds said:


> Yes I know the habit!  The long answer is it varies according to the country you’re in.
> 
> Many DIY builders use Modushop in Italy and I used their standard cases for three builds.  There are people who will cut and engrave panels.
> 
> ...


One of the best, Geoff. Bravo!


----------



## headinclouds

paradoxper said:


> One of the best, Geoff. Bravo!



Well it was a certain paradoxical buyer who started this desire for better looks and finish with this malarkey.  Cheers Cory


----------



## astrostar59

headinclouds said:


> Well it was a certain paradoxical buyer who started this desire for better looks and finish with this malarkey.  Cheers Cory



Indeed, and at that time I was buying the next build KGSSHV of Geoff and drooling over Cory's design input on that early chassis. I think overall many Stat builders have upped the game on chassis (apart from someone I won't mention who makes cakes) and it pays off in the long run. It is nice to have a great sounding amp, but it does help if it's easy on the eye.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 12, 2018)

astrostar59 said:


> Indeed, and at that time I was buying the next build KGSSHV of Geoff and drooling over Cory's design input on that early chassis. I think overall many Stat builders have upped the game on chassis (apart from someone I won't mention who makes cakes) and it pays off in the long run. It is nice to have a great sounding amp, but it does help if it's easy on the eye.




Lol! It is probably me that make cakes.  Here is my cakes, just the way I like it.  I don’t mind making cakes, or buying the cakes, just as long as I get what I want .  *Sound performances*


I may sound with a lot of bull too, because InterConnect can change the sound performances.  Today I was caught off guard on how much more bass I can bring out of my 009 and T2


----------



## paradoxper

astrostar59 said:


> Indeed, and at that time I was buying the next build KGSSHV of Geoff and drooling over Cory's design input on that early chassis. I think overall many Stat builders have upped the game on chassis (apart from someone I won't mention who makes cakes) and it pays off in the long run. It is nice to have a great sounding amp, but it does help if it's easy on the eye.


I been saying for a hot minute bread-boy's work is dog in comparison to the wonderful talent in the community. 
I still appreciate everything bread-boy does, though.


----------



## astrostar59 (Apr 14, 2018)

Lol


----------



## powertoold (Apr 13, 2018)

I like to listen loud with my 007mk1 + kgsshv 500v, but I keep running into distortion. I hope someone can help me narrow the source.

For example, on Ed Sheeran's Shape of You, at a loud enough volume, there is some grainy distortion in the right channel at the very beginning of the song:



This is just one example of many, but it's one of the easier ones to hear and reproduce.

I don't think it's my 007mk1 because I can also hear it with my Lambda Nova Signature. I also don't think it's my amp because I hear the exact same thing with my 007tA, and when I reverse the channel inputs on my amp, I hear the same grainy distortion on the left channel. And finally, I don't think it's my DAC, because at similar volumes on another DAC, I hear the same thing.

I've tried to use some Koss Porta Pros at high-volume out of my iPad Pro, and I don't really hear the distortion, which seems to isolate the issue to my Stax equipment?

So does the song itself have distortion? Or is it my DAC / amp / headphones? This has been bothering me for a while now, and I kept thinking it was my DAC


----------



## Tinkerer

Anybody will tell you that the real fight after you have gear of a certain quality is finding decently mastered stuff. The music recordings themselves will be the weak link. That said, I just listened to  at regular volume, admittedly not the best source, and I didn't hear anything obvious.

You made sure you're not getting noise off your motherboard or something? I have to use optical or my monitor's powered USB hub to keep left channel buzz from my motherboard out of the rest of my stuff. The USB power rails are just kinda noisy.


----------



## powertoold

Tinkerer said:


> Anybody will tell you that the real fight after you have gear of a certain quality is finding decently mastered stuff. The music recordings themselves will be the weak link. That said, I just listened to  at regular volume, admittedly not the best source, and I didn't hear anything obvious.
> 
> You made sure you're not getting noise off your motherboard or something? I have to use optical or my monitor's powered USB hub to keep left channel buzz from my motherboard out of the rest of my stuff. The USB power rails are just kinda noisy.




Yup, I also hear the distortion in the first 5 seconds of that video. You need to crank it up fairly loud, not "live" volume loud though.

I don't think it's noise off motherboard or anything, since it's mostly right channel, plus it's my phone feeding USB into a balanced XLR DAC.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 13, 2018)

Why does silver sound so good with Stax 0_0 !!




Tinkerer said:


> Anybody will tell you that the real fight after you have gear of a certain quality is finding decently mastered stuff. The music recordings themselves will be the weak link. That said, I just listened to  at regular volume, admittedly not the best source, and I didn't hear anything obvious.
> 
> You made sure you're not getting noise off your motherboard or something? I have to use optical or my monitor's powered USB hub to keep left channel buzz from my motherboard out of the rest of my stuff. The USB power rails are just kinda noisy.




Ok, no distortions in that video of first 5 seconds. Running IpadPro+typical camera kit, regular usb Cables into lks ma004 and T2.

First 5 seconds what I hear is the bass notes and the ver faint reverbs of trebles that is mimicking the bass notes on the right channels.  Kinda like a Handrum is the bass being recorded in a bathroom that Has this very fine and high reverb, but it is being composed in onto the right channel.  I hope I make that clear, and this reverbs keep trailing this very bass throughout the song. 

My bet is that your system is incapable of retrieving this frequency

Love it by the way.  I love my stax system with many modern music


----------



## powertoold

Whitigir said:


> Ok, no distortions in that video of first 5 seconds. Running IpadPro+typical camera kit, regular usb Cables into lks ma004 and T2.
> 
> First 5 seconds what I hear is the bass notes and the ver faint reverbs of trebles that is mimicking the bass notes on the right channels.  Kinda like a Handrum is the bass being recorded in a bathroom that Has this very fine and high reverb, but it is being composed in onto the right channel.  I hope I make that clear, and this reverbs keep trailing this very bass throughout the song.
> 
> ...



Hmm, so you near no grainy fuzz distortion at all on the right channel even at high volume?


----------



## mulveling

@Whitigir I love the silver cables too. AQ Wild Blue Yonder works great with BHSE; still won't help it catch your T2 though!!


----------



## 336881

paradoxper said:


> I been saying for a hot minute bread-boy's work is dog in comparison to the wonderful talent in the community.
> I still appreciate everything bread-boy does, though.



You have been saying it for a year or two. Free speech and all that but it is not helping anyone. Only really hurting bread boy owners. I have peeked inside of a few stax amps and too many to count dynamic headphone amps. Just me but you make it sound ten times worse than it is.


----------



## paradoxper

We can disagree here. I can't help your interpretation.

We are talking about better alternatives; specifically if one aims for a T2/BHSE/exotic build.

We aren't talking about the garbage that is Cavalli or Eddie Current.

Don't look so much into the cheek.


----------



## mulveling (Apr 13, 2018)

Paradoxper is right. Bread boy is treated like a god by some, but KG is the real genius behind these circuits. And from what I’ve heard (a lot) you can get better sound for less money from other builders. Absolutely no sense of aesthetic, either. He is a known (Very good) quality though, and quite prolific, I’ll give him that. His products are very reliable.

I respect Justin of Headamp a LOT more, though.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I wish there were more ways to support KG and Spritzer for the work that they put into these things. 

Unfortunately it appears that the fallout of chinese rip offs and other unscrupulous practices by individuals means that future designs will stay behind closed doors and not released to the community.


----------



## mulveling

It’s mostly bread boy who seems to get pissy about that stuff


----------



## SeaWo|f

It's funny I've been active here for some time and have back read a lot, and some how I have missed that name " bread boy". But I never looked for builders. I knew who I wanted an amp from and waited.


----------



## mulveling

Hah it’s the first time I heard that name too. Just latched into it now because I like it.


----------



## 336881

paradoxper said:


> We can disagree here. I can't help your interpretation.
> 
> We are talking about better alternatives; specifically if one aims for a T2/BHSE/exotic build.
> 
> ...



It is still a better alternative than Stax.


----------



## 336881

mulveling said:


> Paradoxper is right. Bread boy is treated like a god by some, but KG is the real genius behind these circuits. And from what I’ve heard (a lot) you can get better sound for less money from other builders. Absolutely no sense of aesthetic, either. He is a known (Very good) quality though, and quite prolific, I’ll give him that. His products are very reliable.
> 
> I respect Justin of Headamp a LOT more, though.



Yeah but unless you have the loot for a bhse you are out of luck as far as Justin goes. I'm not going to argue the chassis or aesthetics. But I can think of a few other builders here and there who do not go all out looks wise and still put out great sounding amps. Apex comes to mind. About the same quality as bread boy. I think Apex for the money sounds better than headamp.


----------



## Jones Bob

Kevin Gilmore’s designs are kindly offered to the DIY community on that other site. Some have brought their limited builds to market. Instead of bitching about what others have accomplished or complain why others are not doing as you like, why not pick up a soldering iron and build your own amp. It can be a lesson in humility.


----------



## paradoxper

That's a weak argument.

We are all open to discussion and criticism.


----------



## protoss

BHSE and Carbon are top-tier no doubt. 

But...

Stax amps itself is amazing. Stax made 5 great amps and 2 top-tier amps. And 3 amazing DACs. Its a shame they dont make Dacs next to their Amps. 

I will love to see a release of a Stax SRM-353D (D-DAC) or a T-8000D (D-DAC) or a SRM-252D (D-DAC) .... Such a wasted opportunity


----------



## Jones Bob

paradoxper said:


> That's a weak argument.
> 
> We are all open to discussion and criticism.



Actually some folks here aren’t open to criticism. 

That’s why some huddle here and bitch about others on that other site after getting widely dissed there.


----------



## paradoxper

The problem is generalization. Over there EC is widely "dissed" without having a presence. 
And over over there KG is widely "dissed' without having a presence.

So the same back and forth backtalk occurs everywhere. So, yes, still, open to discussion and criticism.

See: he who will not be named (who makes cakes) v astroglide.


----------



## kevin gilmore

I have every intention of publishing more boards that I have done in the future.
Others that do their own board layouts can do what they want with those layouts.
All schematics are public domain.


----------



## Jones Bob

Weak argument to my original point, Paradoxper. 

If one builds something with his own head and hands, the choices made can enlighten one beyond mear forum bitching on other peoples’ works.

Guess we’ll have agree to disagree.


----------



## paradoxper

Jones Bob said:


> Weak argument to my original point, Paradoxper.
> 
> If one builds something with his own head and hands, the choices made can enlighten one beyond mear forum bitching on other peoples’ works.
> 
> Guess we’ll have agree to disagree.



But...that's what the forum is for!


----------



## 336881

Jones Bob said:


> Actually some folks here aren’t open to criticism.
> 
> That’s why some huddle here and bitch about others on that other site after getting widely dissed there.



Like who? I thought the conversation was quite civil till you started throwing around the b word.


----------



## Jones Bob

My reply was to Paradoxper.


----------



## astrostar59

My view is we all have a common interest, in hearing / trying / building / buying good audio gear. Anything beyond that is not part of the forum. Well that is pretty much how it is on here. The 'other place' they enjoy the other side of things. Enough said.


----------



## 336881

Jones Bob said:


> My reply was to Paradoxper.



Ah. He does kind of have a point on the chassis and looks. Still if you are going to do that to bread boy you have to throw in Apex, Schiit, Meier and probably a few others that deliver on the insides but not so much on the chassis and looks. 

I did not think he was b wording. Just tired of seeing cheap chassis and poor looks which I def. get.


----------



## paradoxper

antimatter said:


> Ah. He does kind of have a point on the chassis and looks. Still if you are going to do that to bread boy you have to throw in Apex, Schiit, Meier and probably a few others that deliver on the insides but not so much on the chassis and looks.
> 
> I did not think he was b wording. Just tired of seeing cheap chassis and poor looks which I def. get.



Bitching doesn't offend me. It was off-handed cheek comparing equivalent circuitry.


----------



## 336881

paradoxper said:


> Bitching doesn't offend me. It was off-handed cheek comparing equivalent circuitry.



Cool. I'm just not quite ready to throw bread boy in the category of dog quite yet. At least to me dog is kind of the 2 brands you mentioned, Ray Sammuels and a couple others. Kind of not so great on the inside and outside imo. 

I tried to get an amp from headinclouds but he told me he had stopped building. Then I got an email about an amp but by that time I was neck deep into 80's Japan gear and switching from a headphone oriented setup to speaker oriented. Then I missed having a Stax setup and well the Octave v2 was the right price and the right input and output and the right size. An ugly duckling for sure setting next to gorgeous totl 80's Japan gear and an Ecp dsha2 that is decked out with wood panels, but I think it sounds pretty darn good with my 404LE.


----------



## SeaWo|f

kevin gilmore said:


> I have every intention of publishing more boards that I have done in the future.
> Others that do their own board layouts can do what they want with those layouts.
> All schematics are public domain.



It's great to hear that you will keep publishing your work for the benefit of the community. I apologize I miss understood what was said on the other site.


----------



## paradoxper

antimatter said:


> Cool. I'm just not quite ready to throw bread boy in the category of dog quite yet. At least to me dog is kind of the 2 brands you mentioned, Ray Sammuels and a couple others. Kind of not so great on the inside and outside imo.
> 
> I tried to get an amp from headinclouds but he told me he had stopped building. Then I got an email about an amp but by that time I was neck deep into 80's Japan gear and switching from a headphone oriented setup to speaker oriented. Then I missed having a Stax setup and well the Octave v2 was the right price and the right input and output and the right size. An ugly duckling for sure setting next to gorgeous totl 80's Japan gear and an Ecp dsha2 that is decked out with wood panels, but I think it sounds pretty darn good with my 404LE.



You know that hyperbole that is so rampant in our little slice of the world? 
The SR-009 had me feeling the touch of God while the HD800 was so deafening it sounded quiet. 
My cheek is just like that. 

Let's drop dog. EC, AC, RS and the rest of the FOTM is still, without question, absolute garbage. Woof!
Substitute. bread-boys ugly ducklings.

And, who gives a flying saucer. It's my opinion, perhaps shared by maybe two other beings. 

Horses...


----------



## SeaWo|f

I love hyperbole! Our niche would be so boring without it. Granted it often clouds the truth but used well it can add much need color.


----------



## wink

The gostak distims the doshes.............................


----------



## SeaWo|f

Chicken sandwich?


----------



## 336881

paradoxper said:


> You know that hyperbole that is so rampant in our little slice of the world?
> The SR-009 had me feeling the touch of God while the HD800 was so deafening it sounded quiet.
> My cheek is just like that.
> 
> ...



Nah you double dipped the chip.


----------



## padam (Apr 20, 2018)

Stax SR-009S






https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-009s-new-flagship-electrostatic-earspeakers-released.877870/

This top model of open-ended electrostatic headphones is a challenge for the most demanding audiophiles, requiring uncompromising sound reproduction quality across the 5 Hz to 42 kHz frequency band. Thanks to the new generation of thinned Electrode Electrode (MLER2) Electrode Membranes (MLER2), the new geometry of air reduction holes and its gilded surface, which with its high specific gravity even further suppresses unwanted vibrations, brings the headphones perfectly balanced reproduction even in the area of the deepest frequencies. All-metal aluminum earbuds basically eliminate undesirable resonances. Headphones are designed exclusively for connection to any STAX desktop power amplifier.


----------



## joseph69

padam said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-009s-new-flagship-electrostatic-earspeakers-released.877870/


Link shows 'error cannot be found'.


----------



## padam

Fixed. But not much is knows at this stage apart from a new driver and a similar MSRP to the SR-009


----------



## joseph69

padam said:


> Fixed. But not much is knows at this stage apart from a new driver and a similar MSRP to the SR-009


Great.
Hope the price is similar.


----------



## joseph69

Nope, no showing.


----------



## padam

It does, I just can't edit your reply post, only the original.
But anyway, the quoted specs are the same.
http://www.audiotuning.com/images/Stax/Stax-SR-009S-Pi-UVP-170418.pdf

Electrostatic high-end headphones
Evolutionary development of the reference SR-009
Ultimate electrostatic push-pull sound element
Improved fine resolution with new electrode design


----------



## joseph69

Thank you.


----------



## joseph69

The 009 currently sells for $3799.00 in the U.S.
Seems the 009S is +/- $2665.00 more! That's some increase.


----------



## padam

It will be around 5200$ initially, but it will probably come down in a few months' time.


----------



## joseph69 (Apr 20, 2018)

I converted the 5.250,00 Euro and came up with $6464.08 US.
Hope you're correct. Guess we'll have to wait and see.


----------



## MacedonianHero

padam said:


> It will be around 5200$ initially, but it will probably come down in a few months' time.



The reason the original SR-009 came down over time was how the Japanese Yen compared to the US $. So it was exclusively on exchange...this unfortunately isn't that. But we shall see.


----------



## SeaWo|f (Apr 21, 2018)

Still that's not too bad considering when/what the 009 released at then figuring inflation.


----------



## astrostar59

Interesting. I hope this is a genuine upgrade, not a 'jump on the price bandwagon'. It pitches it right next to the Susvara pricing (planar) but well below the Shangri-la junior. You know what I am saying.....

Watching the feedback to come back on this. It may be a 'tweak' on the signature, as many who own / owned the 009s have had issues with the treble. We shall see......


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 21, 2018)

Again, *Susvara is unproven expensive product from unknown company, sr009S is from a well known and proven from Stax for decades!
*
I am curious about Susvara, but not gonna be crazy enough to buy it.  Yes, let it hype, and shill and whatever the crap it is pulling.  It get my heart of enthusiasm beating, but I am not being fooled into it.  Give shangrila JR another 5 years , Susvara another 5 years, then I will look at it again.  We probably will have Shangrila Granpa. “Generations 5th”, or perhap Susvara Edition “V”.  In the mean while, I will be for sure Sr009S still remain, and people would still be drooling waiting for release



astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. I hope this is a genuine upgrade, not a 'jump on the price bandwagon'. It pitches it right next to the Susvara pricing (planar) but well below the Shangri-la junior. You know what I am saying.....
> 
> Watching the feedback to come back on this. It may be a 'tweak' on the signature, as many who own / owned the 009s have had issues with the treble. We shall see......



Sr009 doesn’t have trebles issues.  It is the amplifier/source you pair it with.  I have solid silver all around my system.  There is 0 trebles issues.  It may not be the signature you prefer, but it is not sr009 faults, so the 009 has 0 issues.

My Sony Sa5000 has trebles issues.  My HD800s Has trebles peaks....my SR009 has beautiful trebles


----------



## HoloSpice

Whitigir said:


> Again, *Susvara is unproven expensive product from unknown company, sr009S is from a well known and proven from Stax for decades!
> *
> I am curious about Susvara, but not gonna be crazy enough to buy it.  Yes, let it hype, and shill and whatever the **** it is pulling.  It get my heart of enthusiasm beating, but I am not being fooled into it.  Give shangrila JR another 5 years , Susvara another 5 years, then I will look at it again.  We probably will have Shangrila Granpa. “Generations 5th”, or perhap Susvara Edition “V”.  In the mean while, I will be for sure Sr009S still remain, and people would still be drooling waiting for release
> 
> ...



Well said.


----------



## oneguy

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. I hope this is a genuine upgrade, not a 'jump on the price bandwagon'. It pitches it right next to the Susvara pricing (planar) but well below the Shangri-la junior. You know what I am saying.....
> 
> Watching the feedback to come back on this. It may be a 'tweak' on the signature, as many who own / owned the 009s have had issues with the treble. We shall see......


Shangri-la Jr is 8k with the amp. The amp is 2 or 3k by itself so that makes the headphone 5-6k which is around what this one is rumored to cost (5.2k).


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> It may be a 'tweak' on the signature, as many who own / owned the 009s have had issues with the treble.


If this is the only case, I wouldn't see any reason for me to make the purchase being I have absolutely no issue with the 009 treble in my system. Hopefully it's an overall different signature to enjoy all together. Wondering when it's going to be released?


----------



## SeaWo|f

The way I read it the diaphragm material and coating is all new. The electrode structure has been tweaked. The housing, pads and suspension setup remain unchanged.


----------



## padam (Apr 21, 2018)

The casing is also thinner with a different mesh grill.


----------



## 336881 (Apr 21, 2018)

MacedonianHero said:


> The reason the original SR-009 came down over time was how the Japanese Yen compared to the US $. So it was exclusively on exchange...this unfortunately isn't that. But we shall see.



That is not true. Not even close. In the last ten years in has been relatively close to 1usd= 100jpy. You have to go all the way back to the mid 80's before you see a dramatic shift in the usd's favor i.e.. 1usd = 200jpy. Otherwise it has been fairly stable at 1usd= 100jpy for a long time now.

I did not wait a whole year to go after my 80's Japan gear for poops and giggles. It is because the the exchange rate was the worst it has ever been around 2014-2016 at only 1usd = 80jpy. When the sr-009 was released in 2011 it was 1usd = 125jpy giving some one in the States much more buying power. Now it is 1usd = 100-110 in the last year or so. The sr-009 if anything should have gone up in price especially around 2014-2016. It didn't.


----------



## MacedonianHero (Apr 21, 2018)

antimatter said:


> That is not true. Not even close. In the last ten years in has been relatively close to 1usd= 100jpy. You have to go all the way back to the mid 80's before you see a dramatic shift in the usd's favor i.e.. 1usd = 200jpy. Otherwise it has been fairly stable at 1usd= 100jpy for a long time now.
> 
> I did not wait a whole year to go after my 80's Japan gear for ****s and giggles. It is because the the exchange rate was the worst it has ever been around 2014-2016 at only 1usd = 80jpy. When the sr-009 was released in 2011 it was 1usd = 125jpy giving some one in the States much more buying power. Now it is 1usd = 100-110 in the last year or so. The sr-009 if anything should have gone up in price especially around 2014-2016. It didn't.



Sorry man...yes it did!  The price of the SR-009s have pretty much remained the same since 2011 in Japanese currency (except for the now defunct PriceJapan.com), the foreign prices have fluctuated because of the exchange.

In 2011 when they were released the exchange was only at: *76 JPY per USD* and then sank by 2015 (when we started to see the drops in North America), it had dropped to a level of *125 JPY / USD*. That is a whopping 40% drop in the exchange over this timeframe. It was this time that precipitated the price drop outside of Japan.

FWIW, the exchange today is roughly 107-ish JPY / USD, but things were quite bumpy from 2011 to 2015.

Here's a link, please feel free to play with the data:
https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=JPY&view=10Y

Does anyone recall the SR-009 price when it was released in JPY? Comparing that to the SR-009S price in JPY would be an apples-to-apples comparison.


----------



## SeaWo|f

After all the initial excitement dies down around these and evaluations start to emerge that are not colored by that hype the direction that Stax has taken with these headphones will be telling. I REALLY hope they have been able combine the technicalities of the current 009 with the musicality of the 007. Extra bonus if they do that with the tonality of the 007mk1. If they have have accomplished the first two I will definitely be picking up a pair. I am a bit concerned that they are still too focused on detail, resolution and extension. 

I, unlike one individual on this thread, who shall remain unnamed..  lack the skills to construct the amp needed to balance out the analytical nature of the current 009.


----------



## MacedonianHero

SeaWo|f said:


> After all the initial excitement dies down around these and evaluations start to emerge that are not colored by that hype the direction that Stax has taken with these headphones will be telling. I REALLY hope they have been able combine the technicalities of the current 009 with the musicality of the 007. Extra bonus if they do that with the tonality of the 007mk1. If they have have accomplished the first two I will definitely be picking up a pair. I am a bit concerned that they are still too focused on detail, resolution and extension.
> 
> I, unlike one individual on this thread, who shall remain unnamed..  lack the skills to construct the amp needed to balance out the analytical nature of the current 009.



For the most part I totally agree with this, but the SR-007 MK1 were a bit too shaved-up top for my likes and I would prefer these headphones to have a bit more treble transparency than them...but a tad less than the SR-009. If they split the difference, that would hit the target for me.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I admit to a preference for headphones with a slightly dark tilt.

I have a tried to hit as close to what I feel is neutral as i could come with my upstream gear so that the voicing of the headphones comes through. 

If the consensus on these after the dust settles is that they are amazing in every way but still a bit dry. After trying them in my current system, I might consider going to an Audio GD r2r7 to try and balance that out. But that would effect other headphones through my setup so it would be a really tough choice.


----------



## MacedonianHero

SeaWo|f said:


> I admit to a preference for headphones with a slightly dark tilt.
> 
> I have a tried to hit as close to what I feel is neutral as i could come with my upstream gear so that the voicing of the headphones comes through.
> 
> If the consensus on these after the dust settles is that they are amazing in every way but still a bit dry. After trying them in my current system, I might consider going to an Audio GD r2r7 to try and balance that out. But that would effect other headphones through my setup so it would be a really tough choice.



I'm out of the mafia now as I'm Stax-less, but I really want to hear these and I really enjoyed my 5+ years with the SR-009 and SR-007Mk1 (though I preferred the 009).


----------



## SeaWo|f

you know what they say


----------



## MacedonianHero

SeaWo|f said:


> you know what they say




Lol, you throw my favourite movie franchise back at me?  IMO, greatest 2 movies ever made: Godfather and Godfather II. Too bad III was such a disappointment.


----------



## SeaWo|f

MacedonianHero said:


> Lol, you throw my favourite movie franchise back at me?  IMO, greatest 2 movies ever made: Godfather and Godfather II. Too bad III was such a disappointment.



You set me up perfectly, so it was unavoidable.


----------



## jgazal

padam said:


> The casing is also thinner with a different mesh grill.



Are you referring to the aluminum ear cups?



SeaWo|f said:


> (...) I REALLY hope they have been able combine the technicalities of the current 009 with the musicality of the 007. Extra bonus if they do that with the tonality of the 007mk1. (...)



If that matters, 009 and 009s impedance and sensitivity are still the same and different from 007.

Does anyone know if the 009s cups are sealed or ported?


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Looks amazing, I'll wait for credible sound impressions, but if it's warmer and has more bass impact than the original SR-009, I'm in 
We need something superior that ends the stupid SR-009 vs SR-007 debate, some audio forum peace of mind


----------



## SeaWo|f

jgazal said:


> If that matters, 009 and 009s impedance and sensitivity are still the same and different from 007.



It makes sense that they are same as the 009 since these are a direct evolution of those and not the 007. But way they sound isn't determined by sensitivity.


----------



## jgazal (Apr 21, 2018)

SeaWo|f said:


> It makes sense that they are same as the 009 since these are a direct evolution of those and not the 007. But way they sound isn't determined by sensitivity.



I forgot to mention capacitance is also equal.

I thought that having equal impedance (at 10khz), capacitance and sensitivity (at 1khz) was an indication that diaphragm material, tension and stator to diaphragm gap are still the same...

On a second thought, those impedance and sensitivity specifications are restricted to 10khz and 1khz so something that impact on other frequency ranges or decay might have changed even if those specs remain the same...

So as far as I understood the claims are more spaced mesh, smoothing the edges *of holes* in the stators (not sure if the perforated part of the stators has a different thickness), reducing resonance with gold plating and lowering earcup thickness to its optimum. I guess there is a reason to use the world evolutionary instead of revolutionary. 

I guess you are right. We need to wait for impressions.


----------



## purk

Honestly though I think it is best for me to wait out on this and impression.  With the DIY T2, I always get optimum performance from the 007, and 009 as well as the HE90.  Other amps including the KGSSVHV, Carbon, KGST, BHSE, and Aristaeus have tendency to drive one phones better than another.


----------



## protoss (Apr 21, 2018)

is this legit? The 009S ? Cant find any reports or news on this?


----------



## protoss

Looks like I had to do some serious investigation on this!

Check this out

https://audioconcept.se/?s=sr-009&post_type=product&type_aws=true&id=1&filter=1

Sale ? Already ?

getting crazy now!

SPECS:

Type: push-pull electrostatic large circular sound element, open-air type enclosure

Frequency response: 5 – 42,000Hz

Electrostatic capacitance: 110pF (including cable)

Impedance: 145kΩ (including cable, at 10kHz)

Sound pressure sensitivity: 101dB / input 100Vr.m.s. / 1kHz

Bias voltage: DC580V

Right/left channel indication: Golden solid line (left) and dotted line (right) on the cable

Earpad: Genuine leather (skin touching portion), high-quality artificial leather (surrounding portion)

Cable: Silver-coated 6N (99.9999%) OFC parallel 6-strand, low-capacity special wide cable, 2.5m full length

Weight: 583g (including cable), 441g (without cable)


----------



## astrostar59

Ha Ha, like it. I am also OUT. It isn't just the treble thing with the 009s. It is the odd 'etherial' and 'floaty' presentation, with less guts and thrust than big speaker rigs. I got off on the detail thing for a few years, but grew to try and avoid it in the end. It failed to convince me it was music, rather a very clever hifi representation of the music, a stethoscope if you will. YMMV and granted this is my personal view. Each to their own.

BUT for me to jump back in, the liquid mids of Planars would need to be matched, as would the incredible bass detail and slam, and the drive and dynamics. Damb, lots left to fix then....in my totally personal view of course. Plus lets not forget there are NO current Stax amps that get close to Planars on a 'standard' amp. I just don't get why Stax don't fix that aspect? Are they worried the drivers can't take it? No idea, but I never understood it TBH.


----------



## protoss

The SR-009S evolved further the electrode established in the SR-009 as the integration of present technology. The edges of electrode hole were smoothened through after-etching processing to reduce air resistance, and the permeability of sound has been much more improved. Moreover, gold plating processing with large specific gravity further decreased the electrode vibration. Finally, the sound clarity has been achieved by reducing the resistance of electrode itself.


----------



## protoss (Apr 21, 2018)

astrostar59 said:


> Ha Ha, like it. I am also OUT. It isn't just the treble thing with the 009s. It is the odd 'etherial' and 'floaty' presentation, with less guts and thrust than big speaker rigs. I got off on the detail thing for a few years, but grew to try and avoid it in the end. It failed to convince me it was music, rather a very clever hifi representation of the music, a stethoscope if you will. YMMV and granted this is my personal view. Each to their own.
> 
> BUT for me to jump back in, the liquid mids of Planars would need to be matched, as would the incredible bass detail and slam, and the drive and dynamics. Damb, lots left to fix then....in my totally personal view of course. Plus lets not forget there are NO current Stax amps that get close to Planars on a 'standard' amp. I just don't get why Stax don't fix that aspect? Are they worried the drivers can't take it? No idea, but I never understood it TBH.



Yikes. Someone will attack you now for saying that to the 009! LMAO! in a few minute you will hear this.

"My T2,Carbon and BHSE has none of those problems and yada yada yada"

hahahaha


----------



## MacedonianHero

protoss said:


> Yikes. Someone will attack you now for saying that to the 009! LMAO! in a few minute you will hear this.
> 
> "My T2,Carbon and BHSE has none of those problems and yada yada yada"
> 
> hahahaha



Just for the record; he owned the Carbon. FWIW, I’ve owed the KGSSHV and LL2, plus have heard both the BHSE (several times) and a DIY T2.


----------



## protoss (Apr 21, 2018)

MacedonianHero said:


> Just for the record; he owned the Carbon. FWIW, I’ve owed the KGSSHV and LL2, plus have heard both the BHSE (several times) and a DIY T2.



Sure. I am not a big fan of the 009 anyway. Prefer the 007-MK1 over the 009. And non stats ear-speaker I will pick the Abyss Phi over the 009 and maybe even the Susvara !  

Overall, My picture is pretty much sums up all the headphones that are better than the 009 also.

Heck even my arthritis He Audio Jade outclass the 009 in every department !  Yes I have one of the very last mint condition, perfect condition working pair left in the world.


----------



## astrostar59

protoss said:


> Sure. I am not a big fan of the 009 anyway. Prefer the 007-MK1 over the 009. And non stats ear-speaker I will pick the Abyss Phi over the 009 and maybe even the Susvara !
> 
> Overall, My picture is pretty much sums up all the headphones that are better than the 009 also.
> 
> Heck even my arthritis He Audio Jade outclass the 009 in every department !  Yes I have one of the very last mint condition, perfect condition working pair left in the world.



You can guess my frustration with the Stax amps. Really hoping the 009s is something new, but not holding much hope on it. Stax need to watch out. Mr Speakers and Shangri-La Junior and others, it isn't a one shot pony anymore. Plus IMO Planars have moved a lot in the last few years. Oddly it was the HE-1 sound that made me jump ship, kind of ironic...


----------



## Whitigir

MacedonianHero said:


> Just for the record; he owned the Carbon. FWIW, I’ve owed the KGSSHV and LL2, plus have heard both the BHSE (several times) and a DIY T2.



And what is your point of view on the 009 ? Or do you agree with his observations and Carbon from your own experiences with the rest of the other top tier amps


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

I would be surprised if this were the only "big" headphone that Stax will release for it's 80th anniversary...SR-011 please 
Or wait for the 100th anniversary for something revolutionary and not evolutionary lmao


----------



## powertoold

Not sure if anything revolutionary will come out. I believe we've reached the end game for headphone sound quality.

The only revolution now would be an end game sound that can be driven from a cellphone, weighs 200g, and costs $100.


----------



## padam

It is the new flagship.
It would be nice if they made an Anniversary Edition in black (so it would be the same color scheme as the SR-007 Mk2), but I highly doubt that.
Maybe they'll just include an 80th Anniversary sticker on the box, that's more likely.

I think with the upcoming portable amp/DAC the lineup in pretty much complete.
In a few years' time they can start upgrading the SR-007 Mk2s and the Lambdas and release the SRM-727S, etc.) but they try to keep the development costs in check.


----------



## Whitigir

padam said:


> It is the new flagship.
> It would be nice if they made an Anniversary Edition in black (so it would be the same color scheme as the SR-007 Mk2), but I highly doubt that.
> Maybe they'll just include an 80th Anniversary sticker on the box, that's more likely.
> 
> ...




Yeah, black model will go very well with my system at this moment


----------



## SeaWo|f

The details overall of astros analysis I disagree with but an aspect of the trend with regard to speakers I will give him. That is IMO no headphone will ever, simply by its nature of being a headphone, be able to match the physicality of a full size 2 channel setup or a live performance. And I am not just talking about bass.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Whitigir said:


> And what is your point of view on the 009 ? Or do you agree with his observations and Carbon from your own experiences with the rest of the other top tier amps



I love them! They are still in my top 5 or 6 of all time. They sounded best out of the T2, but the other amps I mentioned also were quite good too with them. A headphone voiced between the 009 and 007 Mk1 would be my ideal. That said, between these two headphones, I preferred the 009s.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 21, 2018)

SeaWo|f said:


> The details overall of astros analysis I disagree with but an aspect of the trend with regard to speakers I will give him. That is IMO no headphone will ever, simply by its nature of being a headphone, be able to match the physicality of a full size 2 channel setup or a live performance. And I am not just talking about bass.



Different worlds.  Each one of them offer (pros-cons) that can’t be mixed up.  This is why Headphones market is booming just as much as the high-end vynils (analog) systems, but these systems scale with large speakers too, so speakers and everything else is also booming.  Let’s not mention about $45,000 Cables.  Well, I believe Cables, but $45,000....I would be a fool to buy a diamond for my wife and get much better returns than cables .....lol!

Comparing Speakers to headphones is like comparing a Ferrari to a Monster truck...yeah, both are vehicles BTW.

Ferrari: Ground clearance ? What clearances ? We are about speed and handling/maneuverability ** (soundstage and details)
Monster trucks: What handling/maneuverability? We are about Ground clearances and terrains (soundstage and details)

Lol!

I am still waiting for a genius to come up with a


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 21, 2018)

MacedonianHero said:


> I love them! They are still in my top 5 or 6 of all time. They sounded best out of the T2, but the other amps I mentioned also were quite good too with them. A headphone voiced between the 009 and 007 Mk1 would be my ideal. That said, between these two headphones, I preferred the 009s.



Wait, you listened to 009”s” already ? Yes, T2 is the best for Stax SR-009.  It is funny how people who never heard of it just can’t believe it is better than BHSE and or Carbon.  I was once like that, but hey ! Finally, my T2 is here singing .  I was so out of my mind to spend 6-7K on parts and not sure if I could even make it happened ROFLMAO.  I still can not thanks Sir Kevin Gilmore enough!


----------



## 336881 (Apr 21, 2018)

MacedonianHero said:


> Sorry man...yes it did!  The price of the SR-009s have pretty much remained the same since 2011 in Japanese currency (except for the now defunct PriceJapan.com), the foreign prices have fluctuated because of the exchange.
> 
> In 2011 when they were released the exchange was only at: *76 JPY per USD* and then sank by 2015 (when we started to see the drops in North America), it had dropped to a level of *125 JPY / USD*. That is a whopping 40% drop in the exchange over this timeframe. It was this time that precipitated the price drop outside of Japan.
> 
> ...



I wonder why all the stuff on hifido.jp was less expensive as your chart indicates. I would figure it would be more expensive...

Never mind hifido used  JPY back then. Now it is USD and sort of explains those unreal deal's in those old ads. The exchange rate was not good in 2015-2016 but really not good 2008-2012. Thanks.


----------



## Whitigir

Anyone worry about the 009S like I do from the new owner “Edifier and their latest T8000 release ?”

Kind of like this Apple.  I present “I-Sandals” made in.....?


----------



## rpeebles

Whitigir said:


> Wait, you listened to 009”s” already ? Yes, T2 is the best for Stax SR-009.  It is funny how people who never heard of it just can’t believe it is better than BHSE and or Carbon.  I was once like that, but hey ! Finally, my T2 is here singing .  I was so out of my mind to spend 6-7K on parts and not sure if I could even make it happened ROFLMAO.  I still can not thanks Sir Kevin Gilmore enough!


Súper ... and which is in your opinión the Best amp for the SR-L 700 ? Thanks


----------



## SeaWo|f

I was very tempted at the Kerry build t2 that went up on the FS a while back. Fear over what would happen if it ever needed repairs stopped me. The sand is difficult to find now. In another 10 years unless you have a stash you are probably sol. So the investment just didn't make sense to me. Not to mention for those of us who can't fix it. Finding some one the skill required who is willing is a challenge in an of its self.


----------



## Whitigir

SeaWo|f said:


> I was very tempted at the Kerry build t2 that went up on the FS a while back. Fear over what would happen if it ever needed repairs stopped me. The sand is difficult to find now. In another 10 years unless you have a stash you are probably sol. So the investment just didn't make sense to me. Not to mention for those of us who can't fix it. Finding some one the skill required who is willing is a challenge in an of its self.



Kerry could fix it up without problem, and parts will always be extinguished in (10 years), doesn’t matter what and whom you bought it from.  Kerry T2 was with the most recent parts and components.  They should be healthy in productions for at least another 4-5 years.  A properly kept and care for amplifier will always last


----------



## SeaWo|f

I thought the t2 was populated with long obsolete sand? I didn't realise there was modern substitutes. I thought the modern take with some changes was the bhse.


----------



## JimL11 (Apr 21, 2018)

jgazal said:


> I forgot to mention capacitance is also equal.
> 
> I thought that having equal impedance (at 10khz), capacitance and sensitivity (at 1khz) was an indication that diaphragm material, tension and stator to diaphragm gap are still the same...
> 
> ...



If the physical size and spacing of the stators is the same between the 009 and 009S, one would expect the capacitance, and hence the impedance, to be the same, since those are the factors that determine the capacitance. As for the efficiency, it is primarily determined by the electric field and the diaphragm mass - assuming the same spacing between the 009 and 009S, and fixed bias, the field is going to be identical, so a lighter diaphragm would have higher efficiency. However, depending on the frequency response, if the new diaphragm has more output in the 2-4 kHz range which primarily determines the sensation of loudness, it will sound more efficient even if the 1 kHz response is identical. This is the biggest reason the 009 sounds louder than the 007s, even though the 1 kHz sensitivity of the two are only 1 dB apart.

In terms of the endless 007MkI vs 009 debate, I agree with Tyll that the 007MkII (version 2.9 by spritzer's count) with port mod fits between the two tonally, and in a brief comparison I found the tonality of the last to be very close to that of the new MrSpeakers VOCE, so for me the choice between the two sonically would be nitpicking - all headphones driven by a BHSE.


----------



## Whitigir

SeaWo|f said:


> I thought the t2 was populated with long obsolete sand? I didn't realise there was modern substitutes. I thought the modern take with some changes was the bhse.



No, Kerry built his own with recent parts and components, designs that are not published to the DIY community.  All we know is that it is a T2 with newer in production parts


----------



## SeaWo|f (Apr 21, 2018)

Dann, I had no idea.

Well I guess I can still get a megaton and have spent less on that and my bhse combined than the t2.

Also with the modern parts and stuff the result might be a bit different.

Edit and my comment about speakers was not meant to imply they do everything better. Just what I find most defining of them.


----------



## JimL11

Whitigir said:


> No, Kerry built his own with recent parts and components, designs that are not published to the DIY community.  All we know is that it is a T2 with newer in production parts





SeaWo|f said:


> Dann, I had no idea.
> 
> Well I guess I can still get a megaton and have spent less on that and my bhse combined than the t2.
> 
> ...



It's not exactly a secret, but amps with long production histories may have parts changes over time. There are a few versions of the BHSE, incorporating different transistors as they become obsolete and are replaced with newer parts. Sometimes, a modification of the circuit board is required to accommodate a replacement part. The Stax SRM-T1 is another example - spritzer noted several component changes in his samples over the years.


----------



## MacedonianHero (Apr 21, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> Wait, you listened to 009”s” already ? Yes, T2 is the best for Stax SR-009.  It is funny how people who never heard of it just can’t believe it is better than BHSE and or Carbon.  I was once like that, but hey ! Finally, my T2 is here singing .  I was so out of my mind to spend 6-7K on parts and not sure if I could even make it happened ROFLMAO.  I still can not thanks Sir Kevin Gilmore enough!



I owned the SR-009s for over 5 years. That's plural of SR-009...not the SR-009S.   

The T-2 sounded "better" compared to the rest with the SR-007Mk1s IMO as they are harder to drive due to being less efficient, but the SR-009s sounded spectacular out it too. I'm curious to hear the SR-009S now...really curious.


----------



## MacedonianHero (Apr 21, 2018)

antimatter said:


> You are reading that chart backwards. One in the States has more buying power at 125 jpy than 76jpy. It is the opposite.



Exactly the US has more buying power at 127 JPY (in 2015 compared to 2011), thus the price drop as the prices are set in JPY as Stax is a Japanese company and prices their gear based on the JPY.

Let's run the math:

So in 2015, the 399,000 JPY SR-009s would cost only $3192 USD. (at the 125JPY/USD exchange rate)
But way back in 2011, the 399,000 JPY SR-009s did actually cost $5250. (at the 76 JPY/USD exchange rate)

Thus the price drop in in N.A. in 2015.


----------



## Whitigir

Well, even a newly built T2 should have years of life remaining or decades.  Unless something funky happened like not well keeping ?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Whitigir said:


> Well, even a newly built T2 should have years of life remaining or decades.  Unless something funky happened like not well keeping ?



Sorry, to confirm, I never owned the T-2, a local friend here builds them and I heard his. I've owned the SRM727II, KGSS, KGSSHV and LL2 when I was still in the mafia. I've heard the BHSE several different times as well through the years (awesome amp and darn sexy...Justin builds great quality gear!).


----------



## catscratch

If the 009 is changing diaphragm coating and possibly other materials, I wonder if they'll update the L700 with similar changes. Given that the L700 is a bit tipped up in the highs, I'd like them to mellow it out some. And I do expect the price to come down over time. IIRC the SR-007 cost over $4k in the US when it first appeared, and that was damn near 20 years ago. But who knows. Maybe Edifier pulling the reigns gives them a bold new marketing strategy in becoming a price leader in developing luxury listening solutions for the discerning headphone audiophile (I hope not).


----------



## joseph69 (Apr 21, 2018)

MacedonianHero said:


> I've owned the SRM727II, KGSS, KGSSHV and LL2 when I was still in the mafia.


Wait...so being I own a BHSE does this make me at least an associate?
If so, I wonder if I'll ever be straightened out!
EDIT: Wait...I also own 2 Stax so maybe I'm a soldier?


----------



## MacedonianHero (Apr 21, 2018)

joseph69 said:


> Wait...so being I own a BHSE does this make me at least an associate?
> If so, I wonder if I'll ever be straightened out!
> EDIT: Wait...I also own 2 Stax so maybe I'm a soldier?



In my books, you're a Capo Joseph!


----------



## joseph69

LMAO!


----------



## 336881 (Apr 21, 2018)

MacedonianHero said:


> Exactly the US has more buying power at 127 JPY (in 2015 compared to 2011), thus the price drop as the prices are set in JPY as Stax is a Japanese company and prices their gear based on the JPY.
> 
> Let's run the math:
> 
> ...



Yeah I was confused with another place I shop but this actually explains some things. Thanks.

Hifido had some unreal ads if you used the usual 1=100jpy if you can find the old ads from 2008-2012. They were using JPY as the price then and USD now and I got my wires crossed. A 1=80jpy would explain things. 

A little too much 4:20 maybe.


----------



## MacedonianHero

antimatter said:


> Yeah I was confused with another place I shop but this actually explains some things. Thanks.
> 
> Hifido had some unreal ads if you used the usual 1=100jpy if you can find the old ads from 2008-2012. They were using JPY as the price then and USD now and I got my wires crossed. A 1=80jpy would explain things.
> 
> A little too much 4:20 maybe.



No worries man.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Ah the joys of this place.. after a day of discussing vaporware(009s) and unobtainum amps(T2) I was almost convinced I was missing out. But the rats are asleep and I'm 45 minutes into a listening session and I can't see how I am.


 

I think I will be ok. I will pull myself through somehow.


----------



## jgazal

SeaWo|f said:


> (...) IMO no headphone will ever, simply by its nature of being a headphone, be able to match the physicality of a full size 2 channel setup or a live performance. And I am not just talking about bass.





SeaWo|f said:


> (...) my comment about speakers was not meant to imply they do everything better. Just what I find most defining of them.





jgazal said:


> (...) Never is such an strong word...



Very skilled scientist/engineers/entrepreneurs are offering products to reduce that performance disparity. 

Hopefully in the long term headphones and speakers will perform similarly with very little user intervention required.


----------



## Pahani

astrostar59 said:


> Ha Ha, like it. I am also OUT. It isn't just the treble thing with the 009s. It is the odd 'etherial' and 'floaty' presentation, with less guts and thrust than big speaker rigs. I got off on the detail thing for a few years, but grew to try and avoid it in the end. It failed to convince me it was music, rather a very clever hifi representation of the music, a stethoscope if you will. YMMV and granted this is my personal view. Each to their own.
> 
> BUT for me to jump back in, the liquid mids of Planars would need to be matched, as would the incredible bass detail and slam, and the drive and dynamics. Damb, lots left to fix then....in my totally personal view of course. Plus lets not forget there are NO current Stax amps that get close to Planars on a 'standard' amp. I just don't get why Stax don't fix that aspect? Are they worried the drivers can't take it? No idea, but I never understood it TBH.



I just got into the speaker world about a year ago. BUT my focus is HT multi-ch, and not 2-ch. Totally different focus from yours. My 2-ch fix is still serviced by my headphones (in a separate room).

I spent $5K on twin subwoofers a couple months ago. The subs I went with extend to 13hz, but more than that, with a FR of +/- 3dB throughout the entire range. Subwoofage for HT applications is ALL about the sub-20hz extension and the attendant couch and room shaking to increase the immersiveness. I tell ya what, there's precisely zero chance of any headphone ever made giving me a back massage at 15hz or below 

They are completely different focuses (2-ch speakers vs multi-ch speakers), and you can go completely crazy for each approach! I'm just getting started, and have a long way to go. So far, I'm happy with my choice of focusing on movies for my HT system! Headphones, 2-ch speakers, and multi-ch speakers are sorta like apples, oranges, and bananas.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Circlej*****g all the way with the usual Stax-addicts suspects 

Ali


----------



## tumpux

SeaWo|f said:


> Ah the joys of this place.. after a day of discussing vaporware(009s) and unobtainum amps(T2) I was almost convinced I was missing out. But the rats are asleep and I'm 45 minutes into a listening session and I can't see how I am.
> 
> 
> 
> I think I will be ok. I will pull myself through somehow.



I wonder if sticking 4 pieces of input stage tubes behind the EL34s will turn escalate your amp into an unobtanium.


----------



## ScareDe2 (Apr 23, 2018)

I just equalized my k812 based on the Stax 009 graph and by far it is the most transparent equalization than I achieved so far.
Sounds very clean. Much better than the Harman target.


----------



## graben (Apr 23, 2018)

009S and a new DAC got announced (SRM-D10). Can't wait to give it a listen next time I'm in Japan.

They are both expected to be for sale in the middle of June.
460,000 yen for the 009S and 90,000 yen for the DAC. 
https://stax.co.jp/2018/04/24/009s_d10/

https://stax.co.jp/products/sr-009s/

https://stax.co.jp/products/srm-d10/


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

Oh man, now the waiting game to actually hear the 009S and first impressions to roll in. My hopes as of now are a 009 with a bit more lowend and possibly a bit more physical sound.


----------



## padam

Looks like the D10 portable amp/DAC is the first product from Stax that's not made in Japan.
Not sure how I feel about that at this point.


----------



## staticdynamo (Apr 24, 2018)

STAX New model SR-009S https://stax.co.jp/products/sr-009s/ will be released in June, which will be made in Japan.
STAX SRM-D10 https://stax.co.jp/products/srm-d10/  will be released in June, which will be made in China.
Both will be released in the middle of June.
Sorry all information pages are in Japanese.
I made a reservation of  SRM-D10. Cheaper than I thought. 90000 yen (without tax).


----------



## tumpux

padam said:


> Looks like the D10 portable amp/DAC is the first product from Stax that's not made in Japan.
> Not sure how I feel about that at this point.


It is expected. If Stax wants to survive, it needs to create a more accessible and relevant product lines.
I think D10 is relevant with current market demand of something more integrated and transportable. Pricing wise, Stax also need something more accessible to attract new users. 

Like my product design professor always say, if you don't understand something, it was not designed for you.


----------



## staticdynamo (Apr 24, 2018)

Yet no information of SR-002's cover and ear pieces.


----------



## Jerseyboy

staticdynamo said:


> STAX New model SR-009S https://stax.co.jp/products/sr-009s/ will be released in June, which will be made in Japan.
> STAX SRM-D10 https://stax.co.jp/products/srm-d10/  will be released in June, which will be made in China.
> Both will be released in the middle of June.
> Sorry all information pages are in Japanese.
> I made a reservation of  SRM-D10. Cheaper than I thought. 90000 yen (without tax).





SR-009S available for pre-order on Stax USA site at USD 4,600 !

Can't find European pricing yet....


----------



## AnakChan

The stator of the new SR-009S is etched twice and is gold plated. The material itself is the same as the original SR-009 stator. The housing is also a little thinner - not so much the flat bit but the concaved bezel is not as deep. The black mesh guard is also no longer just a flat round piece. It is now raised on the edges to a flat plateau that is level to the rim of the housing. All else remains the same - the earpads, headband, cable, etc.

Sonically it's different from the SR-009 rather obviously. I was joking with Sasaki-san (now retired from Stax but still there) that this should be SR-010 rather than SR-009. It's really not a minor difference. It's a little bit more dynamic, cleaner, and a snappier crisp. It sounds somewhat more energetic.


----------



## Rossliew

More energetic = brighter in general?


----------



## padam

Rossliew said:


> More energetic = brighter in general?



No, it is the opposite, warmer, fuller, you can check for a few more impressions collected here.


----------



## joseph69

Jerseyboy said:


> USD 4,600 !


Not bad!


----------



## purk

What was the amp used for driving both phones?  The T8000?


----------



## oneguy

Yep, T8000



Jerseyboy said:


> SR-009S available for pre-order on Stax USA site at USD 4,600 !
> 
> Can't find European pricing yet....



Can be found for $4k here

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sta...-with-impressions.877870/page-7#post-14204714


----------



## wuwhere

Jerseyboy said:


> ... Stax USA site at USD 4,600 !



Ouch!!!


----------



## protoss (Apr 28, 2018)

STAX D-10 Portable Electrostatic Headphone Amp/DAC
$899.00




Day 1 buy !


----------



## staticdynamo (Apr 29, 2018)

Today I went to Nakano in Tokyo, and at the event 'Headphone Festival' , I could compare SR-009S with SR-009
using SRM-T8000 and my A&ultima SP1000CP. For only 10minutes' listening, I don't report in detail. They are
alike. And in character, somewhat different. They both are good earspeakers.







 e very


----------



## Whitigir

staticdynamo said:


> Today I went to Nakano in Tokyo, and at the event 'Headphone Festival' , I could compare SR-009S with SR-009
> using SRM-T8000 and my A&ultima SP1000CP. For only 10minutes' listening, I don't report in detail. They are
> alike. And in character, somewhat different. They both are good earspeakers.
> 
> e very



How about the soundstage my friend ? How come people dont pay attention to soundstage


----------



## staticdynamo

I also listened to SRM-D10 with SR-003Mk2 , my SP1000CP and Crystal Connect Cable. After I listened to SRM-D10 about a month ago, it was brushed up. I feel the sound quality got better. The sound image was more solid than before. 
And one good news!  The earpiece in this picture will be released in summer. I hope the cover also released at that time.


----------



## AnakChan

Whitigir said:


> How about the soundstage my friend ? How come people dont pay attention to soundstage


I paid attention to that today . 2nd round of listening.

My raw notes :-

Whilst the 009 has a more left/right diffused, the 009S is more overhead center focused.  I can see how some would constitute this as smaller soundstage but I felt it was just more of a different presentation than “smaller soundstage”. Would need to spend more time on comparing to confirm.

No treble harshness. More articulate.

Inner dust protector cloth is a little thinner and more finely meshed.

No Stax fart heard.


----------



## protoss

One thing I hate about Staxs are the damn Farts!


----------



## Rossliew

Fart = Stax


----------



## staticdynamo (Apr 29, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> How about the soundstage my friend ? How come people dont pay attention to soundstage


I'm sorry I couldn't notice so much difference between SR-009 and SR-009S in sound stage.   It's only 10 minutes' listening. And I don't trust the flooding impressions
of SR-009S in twitter. So don't believe in my impression. The difference I could feel was SR-009's somewhat brightness and more energy in high . Not too bright. When I switched from SR-009S
to SR-009, I felt quietness. 
I used my A&ultima SP1000CP and played some music from Alexis Cole's 'A Kiss In The Dark' (female vocal and jazz music,192kHz 24Bit Chesky Records) and
Rebecca Pigeon's 'The Raven'(176.4kHz 24Bit).
If I can have a chance to listen to SR-009S, I will report .


----------



## Whitigir

AnakChan said:


> I paid attention to that today . 2nd round of listening.
> 
> My raw notes :-
> 
> ...



Thanks @AnakChan .  Did you try moving around with it ? With glasses or no glasses were you with ?  Also, I do think SR-009 is already center focused enough ...LOL.  Still, I can not hear my SR-009 being bright or sibilant.  Unless there is something wrong in my chain.  My SR-009 actually is helping to uncover something from the DAC-Source (which is an awakening) . IMO, the SR-009 is more than a references pair of headset.


----------



## AnakChan

Whitigir said:


> Thanks @AnakChan .  Did you try moving around with it ? With glasses or no glasses were you with ?  Also, I do think SR-009 is already center focused enough ...LOL.  Still, I can not hear my SR-009 being bright or sibilant.  Unless there is something wrong in my chain.  My SR-009 actually is helping to uncover something from the DAC-Source (which is an awakening) . IMO, the SR-009 is more than a references pair of headset.


Move around as in stand up and walk around? Nope. However if you're talking about jaw movement to get that Stax fart, yes I did try that. Yesterday, I wore glasses, today I didn't. It's funny that I've had the SR-009 since 2012 and have felt that to be the sorta the de facto standard to (personally) compare other headphones to (the Susvara is a different topic OT to here). But The SR-009S does _so far _seem to set the new bar. I'd need to somehow get hands on a little more with it. I may try to visit the Stax office again sometime soon as (aside from more time with the SR-009S), their President Nakata-san has suggested for me to visit their new showroom of the Stax History.


----------



## statfi

Thanks for the impressions of the SR-009S!  Please keep the details coming!


----------



## Whitigir

AnakChan said:


> Move around as in stand up and walk around? Nope. However if you're talking about jaw movement to get that Stax fart, yes I did try that. Yesterday, I wore glasses, today I didn't. It's funny that I've had the SR-009 since 2012 and have felt that to be the sorta the de facto standard to (personally) compare other headphones to (the Susvara is a different topic OT to here). But The SR-009S does _so far _seem to set the new bar. I'd need to somehow get hands on a little more with it. I may try to visit the Stax office again sometime soon as (aside from more time with the SR-009S), their President Nakata-san has suggested for me to visit their new showroom of the Stax History.



Excellent! I found my stax 009 does not fart with my glasses on, and I really hate it when it “fart”, painful and annoying both at the same time LOL!


----------



## Rayzilla

Whitigir said:


> Excellent! I found my stax 009 does not fart with my glasses on, and I really hate it when it “fart”, painful and annoying both at the same time LOL!


I haven't kept up with the fart part but based on your experiences, I would guess that it has to do with the suction of air when glasses are not worn and the suction does not happen when there is the gap created by your glasses.


----------



## Whitigir

Rayzilla said:


> I haven't kept up with the fart part but based on your experiences, I would guess that it has to do with the suction of air when glasses are not worn and the suction does not happen when there is the gap created by your glasses.



Yes, I guess so.  Maybe port mods will improve it, but I don’t feel like tinkering around with hard work when I can have glasses on (simple).  I don’t like hard works LoL!


----------



## buzzlulu

Enjoyable 009s conversation so I hope not to make to much of a detour HOWEVER this is the "Stax" thread - so now for something different (sorry!):

Fresh opinions on a KGSSHV amplifier?  I am playing around with my first Stax setup - L300Limited and 353 amplifier.  Obviously a 009/009s awaits 
A KGSSHV is really not much of a financial step up from the 353 - and I am early in my journey and do not know if I am ready to Carbonize things yet (although price is really not an issue)

So - I am going to assume that:  

a KGSSHV will take the L300Limited to a higher level than the 353?
a KGSSHV is significantly better than any CURRENT Stax amplifier?  How much so?

Finally - a KGSSHV can easily make a 009/009s strut its stuff - and better than any current Stax amplifier?

And while we are at it - one more - and this really applies to any KG amplifiers - Carbon, HV etc. etc.
Obviously the Stax engineers have a certain "sound" they aim for and this is accomplished with their own headphone and amplifier pairings - the Stax sound as envisioned by Stax.

Do the KG amps change this Stax envisioned sound into what their own KG/Mafia vision is for what the sound should be - or do they keep the Stax engineers intended sound and simply improve upon it?


----------



## musicday

I wish the D10 portable amplifier used usb type C,. Also the battery life seem very short compared to M-03 when used in analogue mode.


----------



## protoss

musicday said:


> I wish the D10 portable amplifier used usb type C,. Also the battery life seem very short compared to M-03 when used in analogue mode.



This little beast of an amp/dac is way better than that fire-hazard M-03


----------



## bearFNF

protoss said:


> This little beast of an amp/dac is way better than that fire-hazard M-03


Wait what? fire hazard? Do you know of something that has occurred with the M-03? If so, please share.


----------



## protoss

bearFNF said:


> Wait what? fire hazard? Do you know of something that has occurred with the M-03? If so, please share.



Just an old post i remember. And because of this I just stayed away completely.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kingsound-m03-can-it-drive-stax.851827/


----------



## powertoold (Apr 29, 2018)

buzzlulu said:


> Finally - a KGSSHV can easily make a 009/009s strut its stuff - and better than any current Stax amplifier?



Are you buying a kgsshv or making one yourself? If you're going to make one, then might as well go for the Carbon since it's the newest and "best" 

I have a kgsshv 500v, am in love with it, and consider it my "end game" amp. I also have a 007tA, and the kgsshv is much much better (a lot more "slam" and subbass, although I did feel like the 007tA had more forward and "lush" vocals, but I never directly compared them. I am 100% confident kgsshv is *a lot* better).

The problem with buying DIY amps is it's difficult to assess their reliability. It's a much bigger risk to buy a DIY amp.


----------



## purk

You can easily get the KGST in the FS forum at $2000 and that is a steal for the price.  I love the KGSSHV and they are way better than the 727 or 007t as well as the 717.  It should better the T8000 as well.   KG amps are amazing!


----------



## buzzlulu

powertoold said:


> Are you buying a kgsshv or making one yourself? If you're going to make one, then might as well go for the Carbon since it's the newest and "best"
> 
> The problem with buying DIY amps is it's difficult to assess their reliability. It's a much bigger risk to buy a DIY amp.




I would be buying and not building...the last time I handled a soldering iron was back in the 70's when I was active in Ham Radio.  Transistors didn't even exist back then 

A purchase would be made from far across the seas... (Iceland)... so I think the pedigree and integrity will be good!

KGST - I want to remain solid state.

What about what I wrote above  - which is very important to me:


"And while we are at it - one more - and this really applies to any KG amplifiers - Carbon, HV etc. etc.
Obviously the Stax engineers have a certain "sound" they aim for and this is accomplished with their own headphone and amplifier pairings - the Stax sound as envisioned by Stax.
Do the KG amps change this Stax envisioned sound into what their own KG/Mafia vision is for what the sound should be - or do they keep the Stax engineers intended sound and simply improve upon it?"


----------



## padam

buzzlulu said:


> I want to remain solid state.
> 
> What about what I wrote above  - which is very important to me:
> 
> ...



The 323S and the KGSSHV aren't that different in general topology.
But freed from the constraints of a simple, unregulated power supply and equipped with parts that are able to handle higher voltages, you'll get an improvement in reduced distortion, a more linear frequency response, higher dynamics, bigger soundstage and much better bass impact and control. And of course you can crank up the volume to ear-bleeding levels if you want to.

Whether the amount of these improvements are 'huge' or 'fairly small' is totally dependent on the listener.

Although not quite the same setup with either the new amp (carbon is a bit warmer and smoother) or the headphones you can find some impressions here


----------



## buzzlulu

Padam
Thank you for the link.  Off to it now to do some educational reading however your description above was very informative.

My thought process for now is as follows.  This year was my first back in headphone listening since returning to this forum from when I was last active in 2003/04 (main listening is always 2 channel).  It has been a busy return (and expensive)...as the purchase of a Utopia, Z1R, and now my first Stax system will attest to.  

My end goal is a 009/009s and most likely a TOTL amplifier to follow.  For now my newly delivered L300Limited/353X is giving me exactly what I want - an entry and taste into Stax.  A jump from a 353 to KGSSHV is, for me, negligible in cost.  A jump to a Carbon is a larger investment (even though I can make it) however the $3k saved between the two amplifiers can fund most of the cost of a 009/009s.  If the KGSSHV can run the 009's - WELL -  then it buys some play time to have fun.

If a Carbon is warmer and smoother - than for what I am looking for perhaps no - and I seem to have the impression from reading (and communicating) that the Carbon was voiced to "tame" the 009.  I don't know if I want an amplifier which was voiced for one specific headphone - and was made to "fix" its deficiencies.  If the powers to be at Stax wanted to fix any deficiencies then perhaps they would have done so with one of their own amplifiers?


----------



## Whitigir

No, Carbon was not voiced to tame 009.  Carbon was voiced to Synergize and pair with 007 MkI

BHSE, Grounded Grid and other tubes from KG design.  I think Stax original T2 was used for 009, they are magical together


----------



## padam

It's not specific for the SR-009 at all, it is simply a further improvement from the previous versions that happens to sound a bit warmer.
But if you intend to buy it new anyway, then you might as well choose the SR-009S instead later on when it comes out, impressions can only be sketchy for now, but it just looks to be a better starting point.

The short answer is: why not try that amp? There really aren't many of them around, so if you think it is not enough improvement for the amount you spent, just resell it and move on.

Personally, I am using a rather low-level amp and for a short time I had a KGSSHV and I just didn't love the matching with my favourite headphones (too sterile), so just moved on and enjoy music with a fairly low-level amp. Yes sometimes I feel that it is congested, a bit fuzzy, not quite zero silence, bass not being great etc. but it just plays music so brilliantly every time I turn it on (or humans do sound human with YT and stuff) that it doesn't seem to matter that much.

It almost as though it forces you to concentrate on the 'whole' music itself, rather than its individual elements (think of it as the bigger, whole digital picture if you will, rather than its individual pixels)


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

Whitigir said:


> No, Carbon was not voiced to tame 009.  Carbon was voiced to Synergize and pair with 007 MkI
> 
> BHSE, Grounded Grid and other tubes from KG design.  I think Stax original T2 was used for 009, they are magical together


BHSE was the one made to synergize with the 007 and the Carbon was infact made for smoothing out the 009. The T2 was made for pairing with the SR-Omega of years past.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 29, 2018)

AwzemCoffee said:


> BHSE was the one made to synergize with the 007 and the Carbon was infact made for smoothing out the 009. The T2 was made for pairing with the SR-Omega of years past.



Yeah, perhap.  It was just that I observed differently.  Carbon couldn’t give 009 that body even at 16.5mA, where Grounded Grid did even at 20mA.  Then 007 MKI was overly warm on Grounded Grid and T2, but wa awesome on 20mA Carbon.  So, I will just take it back.  It is my personal preferences

If you asked me about 009 brightness and sibilant ? I would say it is not bright , just boring out of the Carbon.  Grounded Grid and T2 are awesome with it though


----------



## protoss

buzzlulu said:


> Enjoyable 009s conversation so I hope not to make to much of a detour HOWEVER this is the "Stax" thread - so now for something different (sorry!):
> 
> Fresh opinions on a KGSSHV amplifier?  I am playing around with my first Stax setup - L300Limited and 353 amplifier.  Obviously a 009/009s awaits
> A KGSSHV is really not much of a financial step up from the 353 - and I am early in my journey and do not know if I am ready to Carbonize things yet (although price is really not an issue)
> ...




All you need is only Stax amps! Forget all the mumbo jumbo. Get a nice $1000 stax amp 727 or whatever and you good to go. 

Get this for $899 and this will sound amaze-balls! Dont spend unnecessary 2k or 4k for nothing!


----------



## buzzlulu

Whitigir said:


> No, Carbon was not voiced to tame 009.  Carbon was voiced to Synergize and pair with 007 MkI



From Birgir's website:

"The original design concept for this amp was born to tame the rough top end of the SR-009"


----------



## buzzlulu

protoss said:


> All you need is only Stax amps! Forget all the mumbo jumbo. Get a nice $1000 stax amp 727 or whatever and you good to go.
> 
> Get this for $899 and this will sound amaze-balls! Dont spend unnecessary 2k or 4k for nothing!





Sorry however I heard this at CanJam NY after listening to the 353X.  Let me simply say  - I hope they improved upon it since CanJam


----------



## protoss

buzzlulu said:


> Sorry however I heard this at CanJam NY after listening to the 353X.  Let me simply say  - I hope they improved upon it since CanJam



I heard they did fix all the problems and feedback they got from listener. Fingers cross. But my original point stills holds. $1000 max


----------



## buzzlulu

protoss said:


> I heard they did fix all the problems and feedback they got from listener. Fingers cross. But my original point stills holds. $1000 max



Yes however the 353X I currently have - was $990 new - ie the same price as the D10 portable.  
In other words cheaper and better


----------



## buzzlulu

padam said:


> The short answer is: why not try that amp? There really aren't many of them around, so if you think it is not enough improvement for the amount you spent, just resell it and move on.



Not many around - are you referring to the Carbon or KGSSHV?


----------



## georgep

AwzemCoffee said:


> BHSE was the one made to synergize with the 007 and the Carbon was infact made for smoothing out the 009. The T2 was made for pairing with the SR-Omega of years past.





buzzlulu said:


> From Birgir's website:
> 
> "The original design concept for this amp was born to tame the rough top end of the SR-009"



Maybe where the Carbon started, but maybe not the whole story: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-523#post-12304366

Also worth noting the final KGSSHV Carbon version that most DIYers build is slightly different than the one Birgir/Spritzer builds (both the amp boards and the psu).


----------



## padam

buzzlulu said:


> Not many around - are you referring to the Carbon or KGSSHV?



I could refer to any of them, they are not that common for the obvious reason that they are not mass-produced. But of course, the newer, the rarer.


----------



## mulveling (Apr 29, 2018)

buzzlulu said:


> From Birgir's website:
> 
> "The original design concept for this amp was born to tame the rough top end of the SR-009"


Yes. But after the original design was finished, I recall he wrote that the Carbon had ended up being their best all-around Solid-State amplifier for Stax headphones -- not just for 009. Maybe that verbiage doesn't appear on the site. Anyways, listening tests will tell you that's exactly what it is - the top tier general-purpose solid-state amplifier for high end Stax headphones. It doesn't "tame" the 009 at all. In fact, I found my old Carbon to be a relatively better match for 007 Mk I than for 009 and L700 (to be fair, mine didn't have the GRLV supply upgrade). If you need to tame the 009/L700, the KGST or BHSE is a better bet. Or even one of those old warm sounding 450V Sanyo KGSShv builds.

Just speculation, but the KGSShv Carbon and 009S might be an epic match. When I get the 009S I'm worried I'll regret selling my old Carbon.


----------



## buzzlulu

mulveling said:


> Yes. But after the original design was finished, I recall he wrote that the Carbon had ended up being their best all-around Solid-State amplifier for Stax headphones -- not just for 009. Maybe that verbiage doesn't appear on the site. Anyways, listening tests will tell you that's exactly what it is - the top tier general-purpose solid-state amplifier for high end Stax headphones. It doesn't "tame" the 009 at all. In fact, I found my old Carbon to be a relatively better match for 007 Mk I than for 009 and L700 (to be fair, mine didn't have the GRLV supply upgrade). If you need to tame the 009/L700, the KGST or BHSE is a better bet. Or even one of those old warm sounding 450V Sanyo KGSShv builds.
> 
> Just speculation, but the KGSShv Carbon and 009S might be an epic match. When I get the 009S I'm worried I'll regret selling my old Carbon.



Correct - the part about it ending up being the best all around SS is on his website - I just didn't include it in the quote 
GRLV supply upgrade - I ran across that - Golden Reference  - do current Mjolnir Carbon's have that incorporated?


----------



## buzzlulu

[QUOTE="georgep, post: 14207675, member: 54517"
Also worth noting the final KGSSHV Carbon version that most DIYers build is slightly different than the one Birgir/Spritzer builds (both the amp boards and the psu).[/QUOTE]

In what way?  And which are more current and up to date in terms of boards and psu's?


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 29, 2018)

Well, if 009S was tuned from T8000, then what you will need is an T8000DR from Kevin Gilmore and not the Carbon  (Done Right! T8000).  I would call it the KG-T.DR., but I don’t know what would KG want to call it.  Apparently typing out KG-T8000DR isn’t convenient lol


----------



## SeaWo|f (Apr 29, 2018)

georgep said:


> Maybe where the Carbon started, but maybe not the whole story: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-523#post-12304366
> 
> Also worth noting the final KGSSHV Carbon version that most DIYers build is slightly different than the one Birgir/Spritzer builds (both the amp boards and the psu).



He is a tinkerer and always trying to make things better. With the 007mk2.9 his BHSE is remarkably transparent. I am really excited about the initial impressions of the 009S as the tonality looks like a nice match for my system.

Each individual builder can add their own flavor to these KG amps because of their particular parts choices.

Edit: Spritzers amps are obviously more unique than most because he often redoes the board work for the amps and PSU. I think the blurb at the top captures it best in that the nature of his work is "more experimental"


----------



## georgep

buzzlulu said:


> Correct - the part about it ending up being the best all around SS is on his website - I just didn't include it in the quote
> GRLV supply upgrade - I ran across that - Golden Reference  - do current Mjolnir Carbon's have that incorporated?



No



buzzlulu said:


> [QUOTE="georgep, post: 14207675, member: 54517"
> Also worth noting the final KGSSHV Carbon version that most DIYers build is slightly different than the one Birgir/Spritzer builds (both the amp boards and the psu).
> 
> In what way?  And which are more current and up to date in terms of boards and psu's?



There are a bunch of differences set out in the thread at the other place, but the main one being cascoded current sources in the amp section of the readily available version. Birgir/Spritzer went in a different direction from what ended up being the final design on the DIY thread. The readily available one hasn't been changed in a year or so. I have no idea about Birgir/Spritzer's. Whether one is better than the other is open to debate.


----------



## powertoold

I don't think the difference is between the amps is huge. For example, I would be perfectly happy with my 007tA, granted it sounds a lot better when you feed it with a balanced XLR output DAC. Most of the character of a headphone is defined by the headphone itself.


----------



## buzzlulu

Actually, imho, coming from high end two channel, it is the source first which is most important.  One could have the best speaker, or headphone, in the world, however if the source (read DAC) is not capable of extracting the best and most from the files (or vinyl) than the best transducer or amplifier in the world will not do much.  You can't polish a turd - and what comes from the source is the starting point (or turd  ).


----------



## purk (Apr 29, 2018)

If you have the fund, I would grab the KGSSHV Carbon and be happy for a long time.  You don't have to spend $4600 on the Mjolnir Carbon as other DIYs can make one for you for less than $3500 with fancier parts.  KGSSHV is also a great design compared to currently available Stax amplifiers but I found them (either 450V or 500V builds) to be not as resolving as the Carbon.  The KGSSHV Carbon also throw out a really big and enveloping soundstage with better sonic refinement compared to the KGSSHV.  Personally, I prefer either of the KGSSHV builds over the KGST that I used to have.  I also found the KGSSHV builds to be a dramatic upgrade over the 717, and 727 amplifiers.  My electrostatic amps journey went more or less like this:  T1W, 323S, 717, BHSE, KGSSHV Mini, KGSSHV (500V & 450V), KGST, 727II, DIY T2, KGSSHV Carbon, HEV90 balanced and Aristaeus.  I stillt keep the T2, KGSSHV Carbon, HEV90, and Aristaeus and spend the most time listening to the Aristaeus or Carbon.  The DIY T2 is without a doubt the best sounding amplifier in my collection.


----------



## SeaWo|f

buzzlulu said:


> GRLV supply upgrade - I ran across that - Golden Reference  - do current Mjolnir Carbon's have that incorporated?



He does his version on the golden reference on his carbon cc if I am not mistaken


----------



## SeaWo|f (Apr 29, 2018)

buzzlulu said:


> Actually, imho, coming from high end two channel, it is the source first which is most important.  One could have the best speaker, or headphone, in the world, however if the source (read DAC) is not capable of extracting the best and most from the files (or vinyl) than the best transducer or amplifier in the world will not do much.  You can't polish a turd - and what comes from the source is the starting point (or turd  ).



To this point I would argue the part most ignored is the source before the dac. It looks like most people are still using computers.thus the reason why all these devices to clean up usb before the dac are so prevalent.


----------



## buzzlulu

Yes most likely true.  

Since I am mainly in two channel world the source is either a Turntable or digital.  Most of our digital sources don't have the computer problem (even though the files are stored on NAS's etc.).  A lot of stuff is fed via UPnP over Ethernet and everything is taken care of inside the steamer/player where all problems (jitter etc.) are completely eliminated.  Linn, Naim etc. have no need for all of this external crap that people use before their USB inputs ie Regenerators etc..


----------



## georgep

SeaWo|f said:


> He does his version on the golden reference on his carbon cc if I am not mistaken



Quite sure he doesn't. That said, I am not sold on the differences between the regular LV supply and the separate Golden Reference LV supply.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Yea the stand alone steamers are good. And I.think the 2 channel world has never been as directly dependent on computers and the headphone world. The logistics of headphone setup just make computers convenient.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I


georgep said:


> Quite sure he doesn't. That said, I am not sold on the differences between the regular LV supply and the separate Golden Reference LV supply.



It was in his description for the last he built.


----------



## georgep

SeaWo|f said:


> I
> 
> 
> It was in his description for the last he built.



This is the description I am familiar with: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kgs...nd-with-the-009s.766237/page-19#post-12530711

The HV supply is referred to as Golden Reference as well, so that may be where the confusion lies.


----------



## SeaWo|f

The last two batches which used different transformers he listed then as using " his version of the golden reference power supply, the most stable one he and Kevin know how to make"


My wording may not be exact but it's close.

The r core ones are from a while back.


----------



## georgep

SeaWo|f said:


> The last two batches which used different transformers he listed then as using " his version of the golden reference power supply, the most stable one he and Kevin know how to make"
> 
> 
> My wording may not be exact but it's close.
> ...



As I said the HV supply (psu) is referred to as the Golden Reference supply as well. Hence the confusion. The Golden Reference LV is different.


----------



## SeaWo|f

My mistake then, I thought there are golden reference of each and assumed he used both.

Maybe for his own reasons he is using one as golden reference and not the other.

But either way dissecting his builds from the outside is probably not worthwhile.


----------



## georgep

Certainly can't go wrong with Birgir/Spritzer's build.


----------



## plinth

Another huge vote for Spritzer here. I spent a considerable amount of time comparing the Stax SRM T8000 with Birgir's KGSSHV Carbon and I would be surprised that anyone would choose the Stax system over Birgir's Mjölnir Carbon. I am listening with my 007 Mk2.9 and the sense of musical coherence, engagement and grip is so arresting I find it hard to work whilst listening. I am sucked into the music like I never have been before. The T8000 was not offensive but it could not communicate with the 'powerful delicacy' of the Carbon.


----------



## mulveling (Apr 30, 2018)

It's too bad the T8000 looks like a misfire at this point. It's a really aesthetic looking box, and it would have had a good market even if it just matched the KGSShv level of performance - which is still not at the Carbon's level, but would be close enough for those who want to stick with an "official" Stax-branded amp. Hard to imagine the T8000 selling when you can get a Headamp BHSE or Mjolnir Carbon in the same price ballpark (both known qualities and consistent builds).

Certainly, anyone with a quality Carbon build will be sitting pretty with 007 or (probably) 009S. And 009 too if they don't find them bright, or L700 if they don't mind a little brightness.


----------



## Rossliew

plinth said:


> Another huge vote for Spritzer here. I spent a considerable amount of time comparing the Stax SRM T8000 with Birgir's KGSSHV Carbon and I would be surprised that anyone would choose the Stax system over Birgir's Mjölnir Carbon. I am listening with my 007 Mk2.9 and the sense of musical coherence, engagement and grip is so arresting I find it hard to work whilst listening. I am sucked into the music like I never have been before. The T8000 was not offensive but it could not communicate with the 'powerful delicacy' of the Carbon.



Are you using one of BIrgir's regular Carbons or the CC version? Keen on it myself but unsure of the sonic difference between my regular BIrgir built SMD KGSSHv and the Carbon


----------



## padam

Despite being highly overpriced, the T8000 still has its market (I guess mostly in Japan), especially if it has decent synergy with the SR-009S and they come out with a decent DAC module as well, it is just a convenient two-piece system and it will still sound arguably better than a lot of other choices.
But of course a CCS upgraded 006tS and 007tS and a fixed 727S would be way better. It would be so cheap to make them at least a level higher and with the same casework.
Maybe then they would all turn to be pretty close to their top amp for way less money. Probably too close.
It's been a while since they've came up with the 323S (and they've upgraded slightly that to the 353X), so why can't they just fix the rest as well.
I guess they'll have to do it down the line.


----------



## plinth

Rossliew said:


> Are you using one of BIrgir's regular Carbons or the CC version? Keen on it myself but unsure of the sonic difference between my regular BIrgir built SMD KGSSHv and the Carbon


I bought the regular Carbon. If I were you I would ask Birgir directly. He was most approachable and helpful and I had every confidence in the advice he gave me.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Since we are talking about spritzer builds, after spending time with his take on the BHSE I will give one last comment on my impressions of its sound. This is in comparison to Justins BHSE which as a disclaimer I have only heard in meet conditions a long while ago, but I was able to spend some time with it, the 007 and 009 and it was being feed by a yggy through with a mac book.. so my server is a significant upgrade vs the mac book but I am using an A1 yggy feed through usb in my case Gen 5. I wish I could remember the tubes used in the headamp BHSE but at this point I cannot recall. They were whatever headamp normally brings to shows. Also the people from headamp were great too. Anyway, I am still using the JJ EL34s shipped with my BHSE. 

The Headamp BHSE has a touch of the ethereal nature that stats are often associated with, but only just a touch. I think it really works for the Headamp BHSE and I loved the sound of it when I spent time with it. 

Spritzers BHSE on the other hand is more grounded, the notes have more weight and body to them. It is a clear difference to me even across a very long time ~1.5 years it was the first thing I noticed. I think Spritzers take is more accurate vs live performances, but Headamps take sounds very, very good and I can definitely see people having a preference for it.

I think this is relevant here for anyone considering an amp from Spritzer, I assume this is his tuning of his amps. For instance if I remember correctly, at one point he stated that he prefers the carbon to the T2 because he views the T2 as a bit colored. 

Granted the above statement is made from my impressions of only one amp from him and his comments in forums. So that is a bit of a disclaimer.


----------



## buzzlulu

SeaWolf

Very interesting comments in that it touches the main concern I have as I start to investigate TOTL amps to use with my incoming.  What I am looking for is an amp which is tuned to exactly match what the STAX engineers want their headphones to sound like - not what a third party designer or builder thinks or wants them to sound like.

Why then am I looking at a third party amplifier instead of simply buying a Stax amp.  Well - as someone new to STAX I continuously read that there appears to be a universal consensus that STAX amplifiers are simply not that good.  Or rather they could be better.  So what I want to find is an amplifier that is better than what STAX can do - while maintaining the STAX DNA.

So - which amp is still a STAX amp through and through - but just a better version - a KGSSHV? CARBON? CARBON CC?  BHSE?  T2? (although unobtanum).  Or perhaps none of these?  Maybe the T8000 - even though it seems universally unloved - yet was used to voice the new 009S?


----------



## SeaWo|f

@buzzlulu I think you have missed the point. Hifi should have a universal goal of reproducing the most accurate rendition of live music. 

Any deviation from that should be acknowledged as colored sound.


That is not to say that a colored reproduction can't be extremely enjoyable, just that it needs to be recognised for what it is.

Stax engineers have reasons for the way they are building amps, but they are a corporate entity and sound quality is not the final word. In fact when stax said sound first and to hell help everything else, they were almost put out of business. 

Also what their engineers are hearing may not be the way you hear things, or what the overall consensus is..

If you need to rely on written impressions your best bet is to find a person who is doing reviews who has reviewed gear you are familiar with and had similar conclusions. However in the diy stat workw that is probably not realistic.

And finally I am not 100% to real life focused. One of my favorite headphones is the lcd3, and that thing is extremely colored. However I find it's thick  buttery presentation at times amazing.


----------



## VRacer-111 (May 1, 2018)

buzzlulu said:


> SeaWolf
> 
> Very interesting comments in that it touches the main concern I have as I start to investigate TOTL amps to use with my incoming.  What I am looking for is an amp which is tuned to exactly match what the STAX engineers want their headphones to sound like - not what a third party designer or builder thinks or wants them to sound like.
> 
> ...



Or you could break an ES driver out into its two separate functions and use an electrostatic transformer, like the Spritzer modded STAX SRD-7, with any stereo amp you want to find the right sound and be able to change things by simply changing amps out. Just need a preamplifier to be able to control volume. I do like my Spritzerized SRD-7 and NAD C275BEE stereo amp combo quite a bit with my L300LE, with my Gustard X20U DAC acting as the preamp.


----------



## tumpux

I think I can empathize with where buzzlulu stands right now. Want to go into electrostatic but considering the cost, feels that it is got to be right on the first try. Hence wanting to find the ideal stax sound. Unfortunately there is no such thing as ideal stax sound as envisioned by stax engineer. They just built the best headphone that they can build at that moment with consideration of market taste at the moment.

My suggestion is try them all and find the one you like best. Relying on opinions from fellow users is kinda useless to me.


----------



## plinth

tumpux said:


> I think I can empathize with where buzzlulu stands right now. Want to go into electrostatic but considering the cost, feels that it is got to be right on the first try. Hence wanting to find the ideal stax sound. Unfortunately there is no such thing as ideal stax sound as envisioned by stax engineer. They just built the best headphone that they can build at that moment with consideration of market taste at the moment.
> 
> My suggestion is try them all and find the one you like best. Relying on opinions from fellow users is kinda useless to me.




I think that is fair. When I started my Great Stax Adventure the first thing that  I found was what I was hearing was nothing at all like the majority of the reviews in magazines nor users' experiences. I am in the UK and would be happy to let someone contemplating a Spritzer hear mine. 

I also suspect that were the Stax engineers be able to build Spritzer's KG Carbon for the price of the T8000 they would have done it in a second. I would not be surprised if their sale cost would have come out as double the Carbon, or even the 8000. 

To my ears Spritzer's implementation supplies more power and that provides its greater weight on transients, greater delicacy in the tambourines and a sense of speed. I am sorry, I am now sounding like a reviewer that I am not, not qualified to be and I told you to ignore. Let me say, it makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up like when you hear any live music.


----------



## tumpux

Right, I think Stax amps and DIY electrostat amps are catering to two different markets.
As a big player, Stax has to market their merchandise through a series of conventional distributors so it can penetrate larger audiences.Which makes having to develop and sell an amp such as Carbons or BHSE level to be hard to justify from business point of view. They tried it in mid 90s with SRM-T2 and SR-Omega but the development cost was very high, plus they have to add the cost of distributions which results in poor sales and end up in bankrupting the company.

I think amplifiers at Carbons or Hawaii level are more suited for DIY market, where their price is more manageable by direct sales method and aftermarket support is not the main concern for a potential consumer. Lets also not forget the subsidy that we received from the people like Dr Gilmore, Birgir, and the rest of la famiglia in form of amp designs and its R&D.


----------



## walakalulu

plinth said:


> I think that is fair. When I started my Great Stax Adventure the first thing that  I found was what I was hearing was nothing at all like the majority of the reviews in magazines nor users' experiences. I am in the UK and would be happy to let someone contemplating a Spritzer hear mine.
> 
> I also suspect that were the Stax engineers be able to build Spritzer's KG Carbon for the price of the T8000 they would have done it in a second. I would not be surprised if their sale cost would have come out as double the Carbon, or even the 8000.
> 
> To my ears Spritzer's implementation supplies more power and that provides its greater weight on transients, greater delicacy in the tambourines and a sense of speed. I am sorry, I am now sounding like a reviewer that I am not, not qualified to be and I told you to ignore. Let me say, it makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up like when you hear any live music.



Also being in the UK I’m always on the lookout for a better amp for the 009s. I’m using a Trilogy H1 at present which is an improvement over the Stax amps but not perfect. The problem with Spritzer amps is the lack of consistency given he is always varying components or design. I want to try before I buy. The BHSE is tempting but again I want to try one at home and there is no UK support.
Not an ideal situation on this side of the pond.


----------



## tumpux

walakululu, even if you live in Charlottesville I am not sure that you can try the Hawaii easily due the nature and production scale of those DIY amps.
In order to have a showroom in every major city for the consumer to try it before they can decide, a manufacturer needs to sell their products through distributors.

Regarding Spritzer always update the design and components of his amp, I think it is for improvement and it goes along with the spirit of DIY scene. I understand that it is kind of scary to not have a standardization of the components of the amp that we buy, but again these amps cater to different part of the market.
We can always find a friend with these amps and give it a try. Or if you live on such a remote outpost like me, you can always take a leap of faith and get one. I can guarantee that anything you get from Spritzer will be an upgrade from the H1.


----------



## buzzlulu

SeaWo|f said:


> I think you have missed the point. Hifi should have a universal goal of reproducing the most accurate rendition of live music.
> Any deviation from that should be acknowledged as colored sound.  That is not to say that a colored reproduction can't be extremely enjoyable, just that it needs to be recognised for what it is.
> 
> Stax engineers have reasons for the way they are building amps......Also what their engineers are hearing may not be the way you hear things, or what the overall consensus is..




Well yes and no. My main listing is 2 channel - Naim and Linn.  We are flat-earthers and don't care if the guitarist stands 3.2 feet to the left and 4.6 feet in front of the drummer - or that the bassist is 4.7 feet to the right of the vocalist.  Or that the stage is 18' wide and 14' deep.  We care about PRAT and if the music is toe tapping,involving and gets us moving.  So perhaps the equipment can replicate "live music" right down to the positioning of the players and the size of the room however it is not the most important thing to us.  The equipment's presentation may be accurate but boring.  It is the PRAT which counts.

I will argue that EVERY audio manufacturer has their own house sound - their own way of presenting the music.  Some specialize in precise imaging - some in microscopic detailing - others a warm and lush sound - others a cold and clinical sound.

So at that point perhaps ALL manufacturers are really presenting a "colored" sound perspective and not the most accurate rendition of live music?

As for the way Stax engineers are "hearing" things.  That is exactly why I believe people end up buying particular brands of equipment.  They buy those brands whose engineers hear things the way they to want to hear them.

Perhaps my post was not clear - I already have have jumped aboard the Stax train.   I recently took delivery of the 300 Limited and 353x.  I LIKE the way Stax engineers hear and present the music (that is why so many Naim users have Stax and revere them so highly).

So now that I am on board I want to see what more the Stax engineers can give me of their particular way of presenting the tunes.  That means looking into their higher ear speaker offerings - and then amps which maintain the Stax way of hearing and presenting the music - be it their own brand amplifiers or DIY 'ers which seem to be able to do it better.


----------



## buzzlulu

plinth said:


> I bought the regular Carbon. If I were you I would ask Birgir directly. He was most approachable and helpful and I had every confidence in the advice he gave me.



I have been communicating with him as well seeking information.  The utmost in approachable and extremely helpful and responsive.  A true gentleman.


----------



## Rossliew

Again you can’t go wrong with Birgirs amps if u can afford them.


----------



## buzzlulu

buzzlulu said:


> I have been communicating with him as well seeking information.  The utmost in approachable and extremely helpful and responsive.  A true gentleman.



And while we are at it a shout-out also to Justin and Peter.  Both perfect gentleman and a complete pleasure to do business with.


----------



## buzzlulu

Rossliew said:


> Again you can’t go wrong with Birgirs amps if u can afford them.



I for one, if going in the already built DIY direction, prefer to spend the extra money.  A quality product not to worry about and the ability to provide continuing support to these guys so they can carry on with their development of even better amps - something of interest to everyone in this group.


----------



## GarageBoy (May 1, 2018)

Maybe with a large scale factory, and a sustainable market, you can punch out lots of kgsshv carbons that would be reasonably priced. Alas, stax isn't a huge company. If everything they made was kgsshv level, the cost of entry would be $$$$.

Even on a simple SET speaker amp, the cost is a lot for parts alone. You got expensive caps, expensive transformers, expensive tubes. For a company to sell that and make a profit, it's going to cost a lot.

It's also not like the KG designs alter the sound "as stax intended", it's more uncorking extra potential. To me, it's more akin to building a hot rod. You have a 250HP small block, because Chevy has to sell these things, but you can do your own mods and the skys the limit


----------



## purk

i think KG designs are more like a fully equip and all deck-out models where Stax amps will get the job done but with a lot less sonic satisfaction.


----------



## georgep

MacedonianHero said:


> I'm out of the mafia now as I'm Stax-less, but I really want to hear these and I really enjoyed my 5+ years with the SR-009 and SR-007Mk1 (though I preferred the 009).



Peter, I just noticed this sad announcement, and I can't help but feel that I am at least partly responsible for this in constantly delaying in having you over again to listen to my T2 and to try out my two KGSSHV Carbons. Certainly if you get your hands on the new 009S we will need to make sure you come by to have a proper listen.


----------



## Whitigir

I can’t not think of anyone to ever let go of Stax, if they properly listen to a good setup .  Especially in this date and age, everything is so inflated to a level beyond. A proper Stax system is affordable LOL!


----------



## buzzlulu (May 1, 2018)

purk said:


> i think KG designs are more like a fully equip and all deck-out models where Stax amps will get the job done but with a lot less sonic satisfaction. /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Whitigir

Just buy BHSE, or audition it and find out what is “stax”.  Easily done.  BHSE used to be less readily available, but now the production has ramped up.  Yes, it is one of KG design


----------



## buzzlulu

Whitigir said:


> Just buy BHSE, or audition it and find out what is “stax”.  Easily done.  BHSE used to be less readily available, but now the production has ramped up.  Yes, it is one of KG design



I am familiar with it and briefly demoed it together with the 009 at CanJam NY 2017.  I still vividly remember as it was MESMERIZING. 

I just don't know if I want to mess with tubes - warmup,  aggravation etc.  My headphone listening is sporadic.  I need to be able to turn something on and listen immediately.  It also only works best when fed with a balanced source (?).  My two channel sources cannot do that.  I would lose use of my turntable - and my digital source is a pain as I would have to cable swap to put it into balanced mode.


----------



## SeaWo|f (May 1, 2018)

@buzzlulu your posts may have been clear and I missed one. That you had a stax system already and were looking to continue the sound you were familiar with I missed. It looked like you were going after that sound while excluding others without hearing it.

Our views on manufactures tuning is the same

Edit: if you can plan 20-30 minutes a head with listening things won't be to idea temperature equilibrium but it will sound very good. And it's not like solid state gear is immune to warm up. KG designs tend to be balanced but I think in most you can use rca to xlr cables with no penalty? I know there are more than a few people using BHSE with turntables and other single ended sources.


----------



## tumpux

Funny, I just find out that there is such thing as RCA to XLR adapter last week..


----------



## georgep

buzzlulu said:


> I am familiar with it and briefly demoed it together with the 009 at CanJam NY 2017.  I still vividly remember as it was MESMERIZING.
> 
> I just don't know if I want to mess with tubes - warmup,  aggravation etc.  My headphone listening is sporadic.  I need to be able to turn something on and listen immediately.  It also only works best when fed with a balanced source (?).  My two channel sources cannot do that.  I would lose use of my turntable - and my digital source is a pain as I would have to cable swap to put it into balanced mode.



Stax amps and KG designed electrostatic amps are inherently balanced - but if the rest of your equipment is singe-ended, just use the adapters referenced by "tumpux" if your amp does not have RCA/BNC in.



tumpux said:


> Funny, I just find out that there is such thing as RCA to XLR adapter last week..


----------



## buzzlulu

SeaWo|f said:


> @buzzlulu your posts may have been clear and I missed one. That you had a stax system already and were looking to continue the sound you were familiar with I missed. It looked like you were going after that sound while excluding others without hearing it.
> Our views on manufactures tuning is the same
> Edit: if you can plan 20-30 minutes a head with listening things won't be to idea temperature equilibrium but it will sound very good. And it's not like solid state gear is immune to warm up. KG designs tend to be balanced but I think in most you can use rca to xlr cables with no penalty? I know there are more than a few people using BHSE with turntables and other single ended sources.



Agreed on solid state requiring warmup.  My Naim system remains powered on 24/7 (as does everyones) - if powered down it takes 2 full days to come back on song.

As for Balanced vs. Single Ended unfortunately this does make quite a difference.  I had some email exchanges with Justin re the GSX MK2 and was told that the amp would be wasted if used single ended as only half of the amplifier would be used.  It was really designed to be used with a fully balanced source.  I think that the BHSE is the same story.

On the flip side my email communication with Spritzer indicates that his amps can accept single ended input and they internally convert to balanced.  This sounds like what my MOON430 HA does - which was the reason I went with it over the GSX MK2.

I cannot run balanced with my turntable.  With my digital source I theoretically could as there are two sets of outputs - RCA SE and XLR Balanced.  The problem is that for the XLR's to remain "truly" balanced I would have to always remove the RCA cable.  If both cables remain connected at the same time the XLR's become unbalanced.

The BHSE was something truly special though


----------



## buzzlulu

georgep said:


> Stax amps and KG designed electrostatic amps are inherently balanced - but if the rest of your equipment is singe-ended, just use the adapters referenced by "tumpux" if your amp does not have RCA/BNC in.



Yes one can use adapters - but they do not magically change things to balanced.  They simply convert an RCA plug to a XLR plug.  The signal remains unbalanced.....so you do not take full advantage of the balanced nature of the amplifiers (at least this is my understanding).


----------



## georgep

buzzlulu said:


> .....
> 
> On the flip side my email communication with Spritzer indicates that his amps can accept single ended input and they internally convert to balanced.  This sounds like what my MOON430 HA does - which was the reason I went with it over the GSX MK2.
> 
> .......



That is the same for all the KG design amps, whether the Carbon or the BHSE. If you wanted to avoid electrostatic amps that were internally balanced, you would be avoiding ALL KG and Stax electrostic amps.



buzzlulu said:


> Yes one can use adapters - but they do not magically change things to balanced.  They simply convert an RCA plug to a XLR plug.  The signal remains unbalanced.....so you do not take full advantage of the balanced nature of the amplifiers (at least this is my understanding).



See your quote of your communication with Spritzer - the same thing applies here.


----------



## SeaWo|f (May 1, 2018)

Idk why the gsxmkii only uses one bank when single ended. I also have no idea how Justin wired the single ended inputs for his BHSE it could be the same.

This though, does not necessarily apply to KG amps from other builders.

You could always get someone to build KGs all triode amp.


----------



## statfi

buzzlulu said:


> I just don't know if I want to mess with tubes - warmup, aggravation etc. My headphone listening is sporadic. I need to be able to turn something on and listen immediately. It also only works best when fed with a balanced source (?). My two channel sources cannot do that. I would lose use of my turntable - and my digital source is a pain as I would have to cable swap to put it into balanced mode.


I have had the BHSE and SR-009 headphones for a few years, love them, and listen 99% of the time to LPs, unbalanced.  There are 3, switch selected inputs, 2 RCA and 1 XLR.  While long warm ups might be nice, it sounds fine after the minute or two built in delay comes on.  I you think ahead, you can turn it on before you decide on the music, find the LP, get it out, put it on the table, clean the stylus and brush the LP  !-)  Then you have the option on those leisurely evenings for serious listen to let it warm up for an hour or whatever.


----------



## georgep

SeaWo|f said:


> Idk why the gsxmkii only uses one bank when single ended. I also have no idea how Justin wired the single ended inputs for his BHSE it could be the same.
> 
> This though, does not necessarily apply to KG amps from other builders.
> 
> You could always get someone to build KGs all triode amp.



My comments were limited to the electrostatic amps only.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Thinking about it more with the published would it even be possible to run a BHSE, KGSSHV or carbon on one bank?


----------



## georgep

What do you mean "on one bank"?


----------



## plinth

SeaWo|f said:


> Thinking about it more with the published would it even be possible to run a BHSE, KGSSHV or carbon on one bank?


Is it really one bank or are we saying that each bank is actually two amps, one for the in-phase signal and one for the inverted one on each channel. Thus instead of using 4 amps it is using two. I have no idea if this is even an issue, it would seem to be quite a limitation as I am sure that you are excluding some very fine DACS that only have unbalanced outputs. I am listening with an unbalanced Hugo 2 and Chord Qutest and it would be hard for me to believe that I am leaving half my Icelandic power on the table.


----------



## georgep

I see. No, electrostatic amps do not wok like that. Each electrostatic amp will have a right and left amplifier, and each right and left amplifier has a positive and negative - there is no way to use "half" of the amp. So even single-ended in will have to come out as R + and - as well as L + and -. Whether having fully balanced in would be better is a different consideration. But you are certainly not leaving half the power "on the table". Didn't realize there were so many misconceptions about electrostatic amps here.


----------



## plinth

So, excusing my ignorance just one more time, are you saying that electrostatic amps are inherently unbalanced but use XLR connections?


----------



## georgep

plinth said:


> So, excusing my ignorance just one more time, are you saying that electrostatic amps are inherently unbalanced but use XLR connections?



No - the reverse. They are inherently balanced.


----------



## Whitigir

I think I just got my mind blown from the last few posts O_O


----------



## georgep

Whitigir said:


> I think I just got my mind blown from the last few posts O_O



Yes... was close to giving up.


----------



## SeaWo|f

georgep said:


> I see. No, electrostatic amps do not wok like that. Each electrostatic amp will have a right and left amplifier, and each right and left amplifier has a positive and negative - there is no way to use "half" of the amp. So even single-ended in will have to come out as R + and - as well as L + and -. Whether having fully balanced in would be better is a different consideration. But you are certainly not leaving half the power "on the table". Didn't realize there were so many misconceptions about electrostatic amps here.



Thank you, this is what I thought. I my friends and I have always referred to one side of a dual mono amp as a bank. I was not considering that it isn't correct terminology and would be confusing.


----------



## JimL11

So, just to clarify. All the Stax amps, the SRX-Plus and the KG amps have a differential input circuit, which is inherently balanced. If you have a balanced input, it has a balanced output, and this continues through the entire circuit to the outputs. 

Now, if you have an unbalanced input, the way it works is that the negative input is connected to ground. The single ended form of a differential circuit is a long-tailed phase splitter, which means that the output of the circuit is still pretty close to balanced. Then the balanced signal continues through and comes out as a balanced output.


----------



## Whitigir

JimL11 said:


> So, just to clarify. All the Stax amps, the SRX-Plus and the KG amps have a differential input circuit, which is inherently balanced. If you have a balanced input, it has a balanced output, and this continues through the entire circuit to the outputs.
> 
> Now, if you have an unbalanced input, the way it works is that the negative input is connected to ground. The single ended form of a differential circuit is a long-tailed phase splitter, which means that the output of the circuit is still pretty close to balanced. Then the balanced signal continues through and comes out as a balanced output.



Excellent ! This is the best explanation, simple and directive ! @JimL11 can be a pretty good teacher


----------



## plinth

Whitigir said:


> I think I just got my mind blown from the last few posts O_O


Did I read this right; did you just insult me?


----------



## plinth

JimL11 said:


> So, just to clarify. All the Stax amps, the SRX-Plus and the KG amps have a differential input circuit, which is inherently balanced. If you have a balanced input, it has a balanced output, and this continues through the entire circuit to the outputs.
> 
> Now, if you have an unbalanced input, the way it works is that the negative input is connected to ground. The single ended form of a differential circuit is a long-tailed phase splitter, which means that the output of the circuit is still pretty close to balanced. Then the balanced signal continues through and comes out as a balanced output.



Thank you so much for taking the time to help educate those who do not understand how electrostatic amps work. The confusing data point was that attributed to Headamp saying that the BHSE should not be used single ended as it would use half the amp. On my Mjölnir KGSSHV Carbon I connected pins 1 and 3 of my XLR together and connected that to the sleeve of the RCA plug and pin 2 to the tip and all is well. Any way, I really appreciate your help.


----------



## buzzlulu

JimL11 said:


> So, just to clarify. All the Stax amps, the SRX-Plus and the KG amps have a differential input circuit, which is inherently balanced. If you have a balanced input, it has a balanced output, and this continues through the entire circuit to the outputs.
> 
> Now, if you have an unbalanced input, the way it works is that the negative input is connected to ground. The single ended form of a differential circuit is a long-tailed phase splitter, which means that the output of the circuit is still pretty close to balanced. Then the balanced signal continues through and comes out as a balanced output.



Is the BHSE a KG amp?  Does it follow the above as well?


----------



## arnaud

Some self background reading before asking silly questions would be nice though


----------



## georgep

buzzlulu said:


> Is the BHSE a KG amp?  Does it follow the above as well?



The original BH is a KG amp. The BHSE is the BH with various modifications by Justin (plus kick ass chassis). The above applies to the BHSE as well.


----------



## buzzlulu

georgep said:


> The original BH is a KG amp. The BHSE is the BH with various modifications by Justin (plus kick ass chassis). The above applies to the BHSE as well.



Thank you.  So it will convert SE input into balanced as per JimL11 stated above


----------



## JimL11

buzzlulu said:


> Thank you.  So it will convert SE input into balanced as per JimL11 stated above



That's correct.


----------



## mulveling

I think some of the confusion came from the previous mention of GS-X, which uses KG-derived modules and is built by Head-amp - but it's a dynamic amp and works completely differently vs. the KG & Stax electrostatic amps. The GS-X won't "magically" convert single-ended inputs to balanced - and though SE will still sound great, it will incur a performance penalty in some ways vs. a feeding it balanced input (e.g. reduced power output from only "half" of the amplification circuits being used, reduced slew rate, reduced common mode rejection, etc). One nice thing about Stax world is that with any KG or Stax amp, you don't have to worry about this - just feed it the best quality source signal you have available, whether SE or balanced.

For dynamic amps like the GS-X (e.g. Headroom Max balanced, Gilmore Balanced Reference), I've used the Jensen ISO-MAX transformers to convert an SE-only source to balanced, and this works great to get back some of the performance you'd otherwise be giving up (some of these dynamic amps give up more performance in SE mode than others). For KG electrostatic amps with only XLR inputs (Mjolnir used to do this), I've used the Neutrik RCA-toXLR adapters with an SE-only source, and that works perfectly. I've also run an SE-source directly into BHSE's RCA inputs, and that works just as well as a balanced source into the XLRs.

So for electrostatics - don't worry about it; you're good.


----------



## buzzlulu

mulveling said:


> I think some of the confusion came from the previous mention of GS-X, which uses KG-derived modules and is built by Head-amp - but it's a dynamic amp and works completely differently vs. the KG & Stax electrostatic amps. The GS-X won't "magically" convert single-ended inputs to balanced - and though SE will still sound great, it will incur a performance penalty in some ways vs. a feeding it balanced input (e.g. reduced power output from only "half" of the amplification circuits being used, reduced slew rate, reduced common mode rejection, etc). One nice thing about Stax world is that with any KG or Stax amp, you don't have to worry about this - just feed it the best quality source signal you have available, whether SE or balanced.
> 
> For dynamic amps like the GS-X (e.g. Headroom Max balanced, Gilmore Balanced Reference), I've used the Jensen ISO-MAX transformers to convert an SE-only source to balanced, and this works great to get back some of the performance you'd otherwise be giving up (some of these dynamic amps give up more performance in SE mode than others). For KG electrostatic amps with only XLR inputs (Mjolnir used to do this), I've used the Neutrik RCA-toXLR adapters with an SE-only source, and that works perfectly. I've also run an SE-source directly into BHSE's RCA inputs, and that works just as well as a balanced source into the XLRs.
> 
> So for electrostatics - don't worry about it; you're good.




Excellent post and the exact reason I have been asking all of my questions above.  I went through all of this last year while I was debating the purchase of a GSX.  In the end the lack of ability to convert from SE to Balanced is what did me in and caused me to look in other directions (which I still somewhat regret).

This is off topic however I might as well ask anyway - does anyone have any experience with Spritzers dynamic amp?  It will convert SE to Balanced internally (or so it says)


----------



## Whitigir (May 2, 2018)

KG has Unbalanced to balanced board.  It can be used with anything including GSX, but are you into DIY ? Regarding Birgir, just send him and email , and again, he is a builder, so he can do anything , just cost money


----------



## SeaWo|f

buzzlulu said:


> This is off topic however I might as well ask anyway - does anyone have any experience with Spritzers dynamic amp?  It will convert SE to Balanced internally (or so it says)



I assume you are taking about his pure bipolar? That is the way I read the description, because it uses super symmetry there is no penalty what so ever for feeding it single ended.


----------



## tumpux

What's the relationship between super symmetry and single ended to balance conversion?


----------



## buzzlulu

Yes I am
Are there any out in the wild?
I know that there is a review in stereophile and Bob Katz purchased the review model.

Curious for some other feedback as it could be an alternative to the GSX to combat the balanced input problem - for those who do not have balanced sources.

I did have a look at Muelvings Jensen transformer recommendation.  Extremely interesting however I am one to believe that the less things in the chain the better


----------



## buzzlulu

Whitigir said:


> Regarding Birgir, just send him and email , and again, he is a builder, so he can do anything , just cost money



That is not what he told me


----------



## Whitigir

buzzlulu said:


> That is not what he told me



Ah, that is unfortunate.  I don’t know, he is not a company, but he may have policy and rules on his products.  You can always commercial an Unbalanced-balanced modules externally for “preamp” purposes.  You just need to pay for it.

But then again, if you have a balanced out source, there is no need


----------



## kevin gilmore (May 2, 2018)

I have published a number of unbalanced to balanced converters both tube and solid state. 2 are similar to the kgsshv front end. Build it or find someone to build it for you. Unnecessary for any of the electrostatics, works great with gsx.

Edit: typo


----------



## SeaWo|f

buzzlulu said:


> That is not what he told me



Read the first 2 paragraphs on the mjolnir main page and the first paragraph at the top of his "Amplifiers for electrostatic headpones" page. I think that pretty much sums things up perfectly.


----------



## buzzlulu

kevin gilmore said:


> Ii have published a number of unbalanced to balanced converters both tube and solid state. 2 are similar to the kgsshv front end. Build it or find someone to build it for you. Unnecessary for any of the electrostatics, works great with gsx.



Sounds like something to bother Justin about 

excuse my ignorance - "li" ?


----------



## SeaWo|f

buzzlulu said:


> Sounds like something to bother Justin about



Not what justin does



buzzlulu said:


> excuse my ignorance - "li" ?


  I am starting to think some people are beyond help.


----------



## Whitigir (May 2, 2018)

SeaWo|f said:


> Not what justin does
> 
> 
> I am starting to think some people are beyond help.



LOL! Let’s have no comment about this


----------



## buzzlulu

SeaWo|f said:


> Not what justin does
> 
> 
> I am starting to think some people are beyond help.



There really is no need to offend people.
Those of us who are new to this need some time to come up to speed
Perhaps the thread should be retitled.... only open to people who posses a wealth of Stax knowledge - others need not participate


----------



## Whitigir

buzzlulu said:


> There really is no need to offend people.
> Those of us who are new to this need some time to come up to speed
> Perhaps the thread should be retitled.... only open to people who posses a wealth of Stax knowledge - others need not participate



Let’s say, I would be pissed off if someone picked on sir Kevin Gilmore by a Typo!  Simple as that.  He is the man, the legend, yet he publish all his designs for free, and even allows/assist people in making these great designs to the people by alternating it somewhat, or changing somewhat and they can produce it.  For example BHSE, GSX, Carbon...etc...what makes you think picking on such a great person with a Typo a fun thing to do ?


----------



## SeaWo|f

buzzlulu said:


> There really is no need to offend people.
> Those of us who are new to this need some time to come up to speed
> Perhaps the thread should be retitled.... only open to people who posses a wealth of Stax knowledge - others need not participate



Those of us who are new should make at least some effort to read and figure things out vs expecting to be spoon fed everything. Those of us who are knew should take a minute to try and understand the responses that people have been generous enough to provide. Those of us that are new need to exercise an iota of common sense when presented with and obvious typo.

My 2c,


----------



## bearFNF

LOL...just...LOL I did even register the typo, had to go back figure out what you guys are getting wadded up about...


----------



## buzzlulu

bearFNF said:


> LOL...just...LOL I did even register the typo, had to go back figure out what you guys are getting wadded up about...



Exactly the same case here. 
Truth be told I had no idea it was a typo and thought it was an abbreviation for possibly a repository of schematic circuit diagrams - since the reference was to DIY transformer circuits to unbalanced to balanced.

I think people are a bit touchy with too much time on their hands if they immediately steamroll in and accuse people of insulting others
Just saying.


----------



## nanosword

HI there ,

Kindly I need more opinion to take amp for l700 and I am between Mjolnir Octave 2 or Stax-SRM323S II Energiser

which one is the best for details and soundstage, imaging and separation .


----------



## Rossliew

Don’t know. Just get a Carbon and be done with it. One time pain, lifetime of pleasure.


----------



## tumpux

Nah, there’s no such thing as that. 
Once you got carbon, you will start to entertain the idea of also having a Hawaii and a T2. 

And 009S
And 007 mk1
And the OG Omega


----------



## Whitigir

tumpux said:


> Nah, there’s no such thing as that.
> Once you got carbon, you will start to entertain the idea of also having a Hawaii and a T2.
> 
> And 009S
> ...



I got a T2 and it started with a Carbon LOL!


----------



## SeaWo|f

Whitigir said:


> I got a T2 and it started with a Carbon LOL!



Quit slacking, you need to be building the circlotron, the upgradeitis is too strong! 

All real stats amps float 900v at least.


----------



## Whitigir

SeaWo|f said:


> Quit slacking, you need to be building the circlotron, the upgradeitis is too strong!
> 
> All real stats amps float 900v at least.



Roflmao ! If I was to be found out how much I spent on KG-T2, you would not see me here anymore...LoL!


----------



## tumpux

Whitigir said:


> I got a T2 and it started with a Carbon LOL!



Could you post some pictures?
Always wonder how does it look.


----------



## Pahani

tumpux said:


> Could you post some pictures?
> Always wonder how does it look.



Oooh, you're in for a treat!

/waits


----------



## Whitigir

Sure thing.  My T2 is original from KG design and chassis.  This chassis was from @georgep last run


----------



## tumpux

Nice one..
Isn't it deserves an altar?


----------



## Whitigir

Lol! Thanks for that, and it actually is my Altar with tubes turned on


----------



## joseph69

@Whitigir 
You are the builder of this beautiful T2, correct?


----------



## georgep

Whitigir said:


> Sure thing.  My T2 is original from KG design and chassis.  This chassis was from @georgep last run



I always get a warm fuzzy feeling when I see people enjoying their T2 - almost makes me forget how painful and time consuming (and expensive) it was to set up the chassis group buy.


----------



## tumpux

Reading from the thread with people ordering multiple sets, wasn't it an sold out?


----------



## Rossliew

Whitigir said:


> Sure thing.  My T2 is original from KG design and chassis.  This chassis was from @georgep last run




How regularly do you check bias of your tubes? Do you re-bias each time you roll a different quad of EL34s?


----------



## georgep

tumpux said:


> Reading from the thread with people ordering multiple sets, wasn't it an sold out?



Kevin Gilmore did the first chassis run back in around 2010, about 20 chassis sets - all long gone. Since then I did two subsequent smaller group buys.


----------



## georgep

Rossliew said:


> How regularly do you check bias of your tubes? Do you re-bias each time you roll a different quad of EL34s?



As long as tubes are reasonably balanced (mainly the input tubes), you will never have to adjust anything regardless of how many times you swap tubes. Also the T2 isn't adjusted the same way as other Stax amps or the BHSE (which people should also likely not need to adjust but seem to want to do it anyway). Just use good tubes from reputable sources and the voltages wont change.


----------



## Rossliew

georgep said:


> As long as tubes are reasonably balanced (mainly the input tubes), you will never have to adjust anything regardless of how many times you swap tubes. Also the T2 isn't adjusted the same way as other Stax amps or the BHSE (which people should also likely not need to adjust but seem to want to do it anyway). Just use good tubes from reputable sources and the voltages wont change.



Thanks for the clarification, George. With the BHSE, is it also unnecessary to bias each time one rolls a fresh set of tubes?


----------



## Whitigir (May 4, 2018)

Rossliew said:


> Thanks for the clarification, George. With the BHSE, is it also unnecessary to bias each time one rolls a fresh set of tubes?



That is correct, as long as you have a Quad matched set of tubes, and using the recommended “Types”, you are safe.


----------



## Whitigir

joseph69 said:


> @Whitigir
> You are the builder of this beautiful T2, correct?



Yes Sir! I have @georgep to thanks a lot as he helps me with some of those (unobtainium Sand), and the beautiful chassis ! Also ofcourse to our @kevin gilmore


----------



## georgep

Whitigir said:


> That is correct, as long as you have a Quad matched set of tubes, and using the recommended “Types”, you are safe.



Actually you technically only need reasonably matched pairs as each side of the amp is separate.


----------



## SeaWo|f (May 4, 2018)

According to all the people I have talked with, I think a few things should be considered with the BHSE and biasing

The first being that the tubes are bought from a reliable source who has the proper testing equipment to match them. Some random guy on ebay with 'NOS' xf2s need not apply.

Not to say you can buy from an unknown source, but you should check the tubes yourself if you do.

The second is rebiasing and simply checking the biasing are different things. It is a good idea at intervals, long intervals to check the aging of your tubes.

Finally if an adjustment is needed it should only be a very small adjustment. If you are making half or full turns something is likely off. And you can unevenly load the BHSE causing a failure.


----------



## georgep

SeaWo|f said:


> According to all the people I have talked with, I think a few things should be considered with the BHSE and biasing
> 
> The first being that the tubes are bought from a reliable source who has the proper testing equipment to match them. Some random guy on ebay with 'NOS' xf2s need not apply.
> 
> ...



The reality is that if the voltages happen to go up or down by a few volts, you shouldn't bother adjusting anything. My view is that if you are using good tubes you shouldn't need to adjust anything and if the tubes require you to adjust because the voltages are out of whack, then you should ditch those tubes. I seem to recall that Justin has since regretted posting his video on adjusting the BHSE because people become overly concerned and always checking and adjusting when they really shouldn't.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks for the clarification, guys. Clears the air indeed.


----------



## SeaWo|f

georgep said:


> The reality is that if the voltages happen to go up or down by a few volts, you shouldn't bother adjusting anything. My view is that if you are using good tubes you shouldn't need to adjust anything and if the tubes require you to adjust because the voltages are out of whack, then you should ditch those tubes. I seem to recall that Justin has since regretted posting his video on adjusting the BHSE because people become overly concerned and always checking and adjusting when they really shouldn't.



If I implied that this was anything other than a rare adjustment that was not my meaning.

The stories of what people have done that lead to Justin regretting posting the video are flooring.


----------



## Whitigir

SeaWo|f said:


> If I implied that this was anything other than a rare adjustment that was not my meaning.
> 
> The stories of what people have done that lead to Justin regretting posting the video are flooring.



And where are those stories ? I know how/what those steps could mess something up.  But I would like to know those stories


----------



## SeaWo|f

I will keep that out of here, See PM.


----------



## GarageBoy

So my father does a lot of diy 5-30 watt tube amps, and I'd like to get into the hobby... Is a diy srx plus (point to point) or kgst (using the boards birgir has for sale) going to put me way over my head?


----------



## JimL11 (May 4, 2018)

GarageBoy said:


> So my father does a lot of diy 5-30 watt tube amps, and I'd like to get into the hobby... Is a diy srx plus (point to point) or kgst (using the boards birgir has for sale) going to put me way over my head?



If you're father is willing to help you out you should be OK. You do need to be comfortable working with high voltage (up to +/-400 volts or so). You can get gerber files for the SRX-Plus from Kevin Gilmore's site, which can be sent to a circuit board maker if you're not comfortable with point-to-point, but it is simple enough to build point-to-point. That's how I built mine. For a power supply, I am working on a revision of the SRX power supply, but the KGBH power supply will work fine for either amp, as will the Golden Reference HV PS, which is more elaborate, but stable, lower impedance and very low noise. If you have the space, I would recommend the Golden Reference over the basic KGBH.

The SRX-Plus and KGST do sound a bit different, as the KGST has a solid state front end and intermediate stages, with tube outputs (think optimized SRM-007), whereas the SRX-Plus uses tubes for all amplification duties, and MOSFET current sources to set the operating points, so it has very, if any, little solid state character. See Ali-Pacha's comment dated 4/16/18 in the Shangri-La Jr. thread for a short comment on the sound.


----------



## GarageBoy

Thanks, I just purchased the two issues of audioxpress that relate to the srx plus. Is the shunt regulator supply still ok? I'm guessing I can get most of the components for both on mouser? Hard to find the files now that Kevin no longer has his server. Does he have a new site? Who do I send the Gerber files to in order to get boards printed ? 

My father can build, but he can't really explain what's what (he only knows the terminology in Chinese), are there books I can purchase for an intro to tube amps?

Sorry for the new guy questions, but I'm not sure where to start and learn basics. Thanks so much


----------



## SeaWo|f

I wonder if anyone has built the megatron point to point..


----------



## JimL11

After the article was published I found that the shunt power supply was too noisy, which is why I am working on a revision. But the KGBH power supply or the Golden Reference PS by Kevin Gilmore will both work fine. All components for the SRX-Plus are available at Mouser except for the tubes. I use NOS TungSol 12AT7s and NOS Sylvania 6SN7GTA tubes in mine, because that's what I have. If you do a search for "SRX Revised" on Google you can find a thread which discusses the theory in greater detail, and also find a construction thread.

If you do a Google search for "Stax mafia circuit boards" that will take you to a thread which has the board files - I believe the SRX board is SRX6. There are also threads on where to send gerber files to have circuit boards made.

Bruce Rozenblit's Beginner's Guide to Tube Amp Design is a pretty decent introductory book.


----------



## Sinery

So I've got the L300LE and 353XBK incoming and began hunting for a DAC and came to realise DAC output volts varies, which raised a few questions for me:

1) Will running XLR 4V input equate to louder output as opposed to 2V RCA input?
2) Looked at the Modi2U and it only has 1.5V RCA out as opposed to standard 2V, should this concern me?


----------



## VRacer-111 (May 7, 2018)

Sinery said:


> So I've got the L300LE and 353XBK incoming and began hunting for a DAC and came to realise DAC output volts varies, which raised a few questions for me:
> 
> 1) Will running XLR 4V input equate to louder output as opposed to 2V RCA input?
> 2) Looked at the Modi2U and it only has 1.5V RCA out as opposed to standard 2V, should this concern me?



RCA will be MORE than loud enough on a STAX 323S / 353X driver unit...knob position whenever I use my SRM-323S is around 2 for nominal listening level, and the knob indications go to 10. That's with DACs rated at 2.3Vdc and 2.0Vdc RCA output.

Also, get the best DAC you can within whatever your budget is - electrostatics will be hindered by something like a Modi - really needs something better to not limit them. If you really want it to shine something like a used Gustard X20 Pro or equivalent would be the minimum level of DAC that I would recommend and probably one of the best cost/performance levels you can get. Schiit Modi's and Bifrost really aren't even comparable in their audio quality, and you can find a used Gustard for similar to new Bimby prices.

The JDS labs EL DAC is better than the Bifrost I previously had, but is still no Gustard. For a $200 B stock unit though, the EL DAC is a great little DAC with optical, coaxial, and USB inputs that I'd recommend over those lower end Schiits. Works great for my dynamic rig with my modded TH-X00s. If you can find a used Gustard X20U/Pro for $500-$600 it would be highly recommended though - that is the level of DAC which works VERY well with a Lambda, simply phenominal for the price. New is ~$860 with USB/$830 without for X20 Pro and $1k for the X22. They are almost Schiit Yggy level.


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

Sinery said:


> So I've got the L300LE and 353XBK incoming and began hunting for a DAC and came to realise DAC output volts varies, which raised a few questions for me:
> 
> 1) Will running XLR 4V input equate to louder output as opposed to 2V RCA input?
> 2) Looked at the Modi2U and it only has 1.5V RCA out as opposed to standard 2V, should this concern me?


The 323 has more than enough power to get plenty loud. I use the 353x at very low volume like 10oclock with an RME Adi 2 dac. I haven't tried unbalanced yet but if you listen at healthy levels it's far more than you'd ever need


----------



## Sinery

VRacer-111 said:


> RCA will be MORE than loud enough on a STAX 323S / 353X driver unit...knob position is around 2 for my nominal listening level, and the knob indications go to 10.
> 
> Also, get the best DAC you can within whatever your budget is - electrostatics will be hindered by something like a Modi - really needs something better to not limit them. If you really want it to shine something like a used Gustard X20 Pro or equivalent would be the minimum level of DAC that I would recommend and probably one of the best cost/performance levels you can get. Schiit Modi's and Bifrost really aren't even comparable in their audio quality, and you can find a used Gustard for similar to new Bimby prices.
> 
> The JDS labs EL DAC is better than the Bifrost I previously had, but is still no Gustard. For a $200 B stock unit though, the EL DAC is a great little DAC with optical, coaxial, and USB inputs that I'd recommend over those lower end Schiits. Works great for my dynamic rig with my modded TH-X00s. If you can find a used Gustard X20U/Pro for $500-$600 it would be highly recommended though - that is the level of DAC which works VERY well with a Lambda, simply phenominal for the price. New is ~$860 with USB/$830 without for X20 Pro and $1k for the X22. They are almost Schiit Yggy level.



I've spent a lot of time looking at DACs, hence my revelation about the volts.
I heavily consider JDS for a soothing cheap tiny tidy simple DAC, but it'll no doubt get stuck at the Swedish border adding a 30-50% fee or so.

But if I can't get my El/Ol DAC cheap I want balanced but nothing really spoke to me.
Did look at the Stealth DC-1 thinking it was neat with its digitally controlled preouts and headphone outs, something I'd pay extra for.
The upcoming DC-2 is something I'm keeping an eye on.

Currently looking at a used dirt cheap DacMagic XLR for the time being.


----------



## CalvinW

Sinery said:


> So I've got the L300LE and 353XBK incoming and began hunting for a DAC and came to realise DAC output volts varies, which raised a few questions for me:
> 
> 1) Will running XLR 4V input equate to louder output as opposed to 2V RCA input?
> 2) Looked at the Modi2U and it only has 1.5V RCA out as opposed to standard 2V, should this concern me?



I have a 353x driving a 007. RCA from chord mojo to amp and volume is only at 8 o clock


----------



## Magol79

Hey! I'm also looking for a new DAC for my L700 + 007tII combo. I'm thinking about getting either an RME adi-2 dac or a Hegel HD12. What do you guys say? I haven't found any direct comparison between these two.


----------



## bmichels

I wonder if HeadAmp will show their new TOL "all tube" amp at the Munich HighEnd show ?  My BHSE wants a big brother...


----------



## astrostar59

Dunno, I'ii take a look friday and see as at show.


----------



## VRacer-111 (May 12, 2018)

Just some pictures of my Electrostatic setup since it's mostly finalized now except for custom brackets I will be making to keep the DAC off the amp... the rubber car lift blocks and plywood are temporary.


----------



## padam

The previously presented desktop amp/DAC is now called the Stax SRM-D50






Pricing and availability haven't been announced yet.


----------



## astrostar59

Mal Valve electrostatic amp and planar amp (all tube)

Has anyone here heard the Mal valve amp? I heard it at Munich Hi-End at the Hifi Deluxe add on show. It drove the 009s so well I was shocked. It also sounded superb on the LCD4s.

It was this one. It was a bit ugly, but wow, it sounded marvellous.


----------



## protoss

padam said:


> The previously presented desktop amp/DAC is now called the Stax SRM-D50
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Another brand new amp/dac ?

So there is a D10 and D50 ?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

22 tubes. Not sure if serious.

Ali


----------



## musicman59

astrostar59 said:


> Mal Valve electrostatic amp and planar amp (all tube)
> 
> Has anyone here heard the Mal valve amp? I heard it at Munich Hi-End at the Hifi Deluxe add on show. It drove the 009s so well I was shocked. It also sounded superb on the LCD4s.
> 
> It was this one. It was a bit ugly, but wow, it sounded marvellous.


This amp is a tube roller wallet nightmare!!


----------



## astrostar59 (May 15, 2018)

Yes indeed, 22 tubes, so I am guessing no fets or SS gain at all, tube rectified and tube all gain stage. I would not buy it, as the price at 14K euros is just too high. Plus it was ugly. BUT I have to admit it is the best sound I have ever heard out of the 009s, and the LCD4s as well. Totally smooth, full, rich, fast, huge soundstage. It particularly transformed the 009 into what I would say is my ideal signature.

But no idea how much safety for the 009s built in, or overload or overdrive. It puts out max 2400 volts I heard they designer say. And enough volume to blow even the Abyss if required. Anyway, it showed to me what the 009 could do if driven to the max in an all tube amp. Just saying what I heard........


----------



## musicman59

astrostar59 said:


> Yes indeed, 22 tubes, so I am guessing no fets or SS gain at all, tube rectified and tube all gain stage. I would not buy it, as the price at 14K euros is just too high. Plus it was ugly. BUT I have to admit it is the best sound I have ever heard out of the 009s, and the LCD4s as well. Totally smooth, full, rich, fast, huge soundstage. It particularly transformed the 009 into what I would say is my ideal signature.
> 
> But no idea how much safety for the 009s built in, or overload or overdrive. It puts out max 2400 volts I heard they designer say. And enough volume to blow even the Abyss if required. Anyway, it showed to me what the 009 could do if driven to the max in an all tube amp. Just saying what I heard........


If you compare it to the Woo WA33 Elite Edition is not that bad for a "Do it all" amplifier as long as is at the same sonic level as the WA33 which is $15,000 usd and doe not do electrostatic headphones.


----------



## Whitigir

astrostar59 said:


> Yes indeed, 22 tubes, so I am guessing no fets or SS gain at all, tube rectified and tube all gain stage. I would not buy it, as the price at 14K euros is just too high. Plus it was ugly. BUT I have to admit it is the best sound I have ever heard out of the 009s, and the LCD4s as well. Totally smooth, full, rich, fast, huge soundstage. It particularly transformed the 009 into what I would say is my ideal signature.
> 
> But no idea how much safety for the 009s built in, or overload or overdrive. It puts out max 2400 volts I heard they designer say. And enough volume to blow even the Abyss if required. Anyway, it showed to me what the 009 could do if driven to the max in an all tube amp. Just saying what I heard........



I thought you didn’t believe an amplifier would change Stax 009 headphones ? And it was not capable of achieving your ideal signature ?

Anyways, I am glad that you found out now.

I just want to repeat what I said before.  It is not that SR009 is Bad, or with Flaws, it is that because the amplifier/energizer is unable to drive it correctly.  Or the consumer has not enough pocket changes to buy such energizer


----------



## astrostar59

Whitigir said:


> I thought you didn’t believe an amplifier would change Stax 009 headphones ? And it was not capable of achieving your ideal signature ?
> 
> Anyways, I am glad that you found out now.
> 
> I just want to repeat what I said before.  It is not that SR009 is Bad, or with Flaws, it is that because the amplifier/energizer is unable to drive it correctly.  Or the consumer has not enough pocket changes to buy such energizer



I was under the impression the 009 was near it's potential on the amps I have heard it on. On the Mal Valve it sounded very different. I only had 1/2 an hour on it, and would have needed to ensure it wasn't colouring the sound too much i.e. loosing too much detail and speed. But it did sound quite radically different. My worry would be the pedigree of the amp, and if it had enough protection for the 009s and didn't over drive it in any way. 

It brings me back to the question, why doesn't Stax make an amp that sounds even halfway as good as the Mal Valve? Is it the current thing and reliability? That was the story I got from the Stax stand at Can-Jam in London last year, when I mentioned the KG amps and the BHSE. Could be BS, I have no idea.

But having said all this, I am still staying on Planars. If it takes a 14k amp to make the 009s sing, I will pass on that one.


----------



## Whitigir

astrostar59 said:


> I was under the impression the 009 was near it's potential on the amps I have heard it on. On the Mal Valve it sounded very different. I only had 1/2 an hour on it, and would have needed to ensure it wasn't colouring the sound too much i.e. loosing too much detail and speed. But it did sound quite radically different. My worry would be the pedigree of the amp, and if it had enough protection for the 009s and didn't over drive it in any way.
> 
> It brings me back to the question, why doesn't Stax make an amp that sounds even halfway as good as the Mal Valve? Is it the current thing and reliability? That was the story I got from the Stax stand at Can-Jam in London last year, when I mentioned the KG amps and the BHSE. Could be BS, I have no idea.
> 
> But having said all this, I am still staying on Planars. If it takes a 14k amp to make the 009s sing, I will pass on that one.



Did you ask the price of that amp ? How much is it MSRP ?

Stax did design a high-end amp, and again...T2


----------



## astrostar59

Yes T2, but it was unreliable. I wonder how different the T2 DIY is to the BHSE for example. The Mal Valve was very different, a major change.


----------



## JimL11

astrostar59 said:


> Mal Valve electrostatic amp and planar amp (all tube)
> 
> Has anyone here heard the Mal valve amp? I heard it at Munich Hi-End at the Hifi Deluxe add on show. It drove the 009s so well I was shocked. It also sounded superb on the LCD4s.
> 
> It was this one. It was a bit ugly, but wow, it sounded marvellous.



Apparently brand new, as it is not listed on the Mal Valve website. Any technical info, like tube complement, power consumption, frequency response, etc.? I'm guessing it doubles as a space heater.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Fun fact: "mal" means wrong in spanish...Wrong Valve


----------



## Whitigir

Lol..what could go wrong in an amp full of wrong valves


----------



## GraveNoX

So I own L700 for few months, it sounds great only after 1.5-2 hours of listening, it doesn't sound impressive in the first hour, but after 2 hours it sounds like a different headphone, is it normal or is just my brain ?
First I thought was the amp, so I kept it on 2-3 hours before use and still didn't feel impressed, so it must be the headphones that needs break-in everyday.


----------



## pegasus21

GraveNoX said:


> So I own L700 for few months, it sounds great only after 1.5-2 hours of listening, it doesn't sound impressive in the first hour, but after 2 hours it sounds like a different headphone, is it normal or is just my brain ?
> First I thought was the amp, so I kept it on 2-3 hours before use and still didn't feel impressed, so it must be the headphones that needs break-in everyday.



Could it be just your set up warming up and after it's warmed up, it sounds better? Like for example R2R DACs require warming up to sound good.


----------



## joseph69

Should leave the DAC in 'standby mode' if this is not an option leave it 'powered on'


----------



## GraveNoX

I use chord hugo 2 as a DAC, pretty sure it doesn't require warmup.


----------



## wuwhere

I leave my DAC on 24/7, it doesn't even have an on/off/standby switch. Its powered by an external 15vdc power supply.


----------



## joseph69

I've always left whatever DAC I've owned on 24/7.


----------



## ahmedie

GraveNoX said:


> So I own L700 for few months, it sounds great only after 1.5-2 hours of listening, it doesn't sound impressive in the first hour, but after 2 hours it sounds like a different headphone, is it normal or is just my brain ?
> First I thought was the amp, so I kept it on 2-3 hours before use and still didn't feel impressed, so it must be the headphones that needs break-in everyday.


I think the answer is yes as have been noted by me and many others; https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-l300-impressions-thread.813511/page-40#post-14129127


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

GraveNoX said:


> So I own L700 for few months, it sounds great only after 1.5-2 hours of listening, it doesn't sound impressive in the first hour, but after 2 hours it sounds like a different headphone, is it normal or is just my brain ?
> First I thought was the amp, so I kept it on 2-3 hours before use and still didn't feel impressed, so it must be the headphones that needs break-in everyday.


I also own the L700 and yes there is definitely a warm up period. It slowly ramps up from good to amazing. After awhile it's a real headbanger!


----------



## FLguy

AwzemCoffee said:


> I also own the L700 and yes there is definitely a warm up period. It slowly ramps up from good to amazing. After awhile it's a real headbanger!


Interesting observation... could you comment more on which aspects of the sound improve with warm up?

When you say "after a while it's a real headbanger", do you mean that the bass/LF performance in particular, improves?


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

astrostar59 said:


> Mal Valve electrostatic amp and planar amp (all tube)
> 
> Has anyone here heard the Mal valve amp? I heard it at Munich Hi-End at the Hifi Deluxe add on show. It drove the 009s so well I was shocked. It also sounded superb on the LCD4s.
> 
> It was this one. It was a bit ugly, but wow, it sounded marvellous.



I heard it last year (this year I didn't visit the Malvalve room) and yes, it is a very authorative amplifier. Very clean, fast, tight. It's even capable of driving speakers, but Dieter Mallach told me that maybe 10% of the buyers at most will also use it for that purpose. He gave it that option for completeness sake, being the perfectionist he is. 
What I really like about it is the crossfeed, as the users can choose between different levels of intensity, 9 if I remember correctly. I wrote a bit more about this amp last year in a 2017 Hifi Deluxe impressions thread. This year, hardly anyone on Head-Fi seems to have any interest in the High-End Munich or the Hifi Deluxe Munich - or not use Head-fi to talk about those shows - so I won't write longer posts this time, unless someone here is honestly asking for it.


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

FLguy said:


> Interesting observation... could you comment more on which aspects of the sound improve with warm up?
> 
> When you say "after a while it's a real headbanger", do you mean that the bass/LF performance in particular, improves?



It seems the biggest difference is in the bass, yes. It develops more impact and physicallity. Over the spectrum it seems to get more clear over say a 30 minute period or so


----------



## FLguy

Interesting, thanks for the info.


----------



## astrostar59

AManAnd88Keys said:


> I heard it last year (this year I didn't visit the Malvalve room) and yes, it is a very authorative amplifier. Very clean, fast, tight. It's even capable of driving speakers, but Dieter Mallach told me that maybe 10% of the buyers at most will also use it for that purpose. He gave it that option for completeness sake, being the perfectionist he is.
> What I really like about it is the crossfeed, as the users can choose between different levels of intensity, 9 if I remember correctly. I wrote a bit more about this amp last year in a 2017 Hifi Deluxe impressions thread. This year, hardly anyone on Head-Fi seems to have any interest in the High-End Munich or the Hifi Deluxe Munich - or not use Head-fi to talk about those shows - so I won't write longer posts this time, unless someone here is honestly asking for it.



So my ears weren't playing trick on me? It is a paradox this amp, little is known outside of Germany it seems, and the designer is eccentric for sure, but obviously knows his subject. If only it had a cheaper variant for either planars or stats only, not both. And forget the amp function. If it was 8k for example, and with that sound, it would be a game changer for the finished product market and high end headphone amps. At 14k it is over priced. Yes the Woo Audio WA33 is about the same price, but at least that looks the part, and in that case has less tubes. I am not so comfortable with 22 tubes TBH.

It would be interesting indeed to pitch it against a DIY T2. I am super curious how much the T2 is different to the BHSE or Carbon. This Mal Valve was so different in it's presentation, it wasn't subtle. Not saying one is correct or even accurate, only the Mal Valve impressed me a lot, as it did to the 3 hifi dealers with me and 2 audio designers as well.

Just goes to show, there are gems around still in this hobby.


----------



## Whitigir

If BHSE is the same level as Grounded Grid (assuming).  Then the DIY T2 are

1/ non-audiophile impressions: Better than GG or Carbon (obviously)

2/ Audiophile impressions (nit-picking and little things here, there, everywhere):  is the performances of GG + Carbon + somemore 

Go audit it in person and see


----------



## SeaWo|f (May 16, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> Lol..what could go wrong in an amp full of wrong valves



Maybe they will sell it with socket adapters so that you can roll your favorite types..


----------



## oneguy

My GG and Carbon finally came. Thanks @soren_brix for making this happen.


----------



## tumpux

Some more pictures of GG please..


----------



## oneguy

Mine:
   
Another one:


----------



## Whitigir

Beautiful! Now you need XF2 Quad


----------



## JimL11

SeaWo|f said:


> Maybe they will sell it with socket adapters so that you can roll your favorite types..



God forbid! Good tube circuit designers choose their tube types to meet certain parameters in gain, output impedance, etc. In order to guarantee that the circuit is working as designed, the safest tube swap is to put in the same tube type from a different manufacturer. Next safest is to put in a tube type that published tables report as equivalent. Next safest is to put in a tube type that has equivalent specifications, and doesn't have any extra or missing connections that could blow things up. Hate to sound prejudiced, but commonly people who use socket adapters couldn't interpret a tube spec sheet to save their lives, if they even know that such a thing exists, and will plug in anything that will physically fit and doesn't immediately blow the amp or fuse (naturally, the amp will blow up to protect the fuse - Murphy's Law). Socket adapters just encourage this kind of mischief, and the result, while judged to be subjectively wonderful, will commonly measure poorly due to a malfunctioning circuit from using tubes with significantly different electrical characteristics.


----------



## Pahani

JimL11 said:


> naturally, the amp will blow up to protect the fuse - Murphy's Law



Thanks for that chuckle Jim, made my day!


----------



## Whitigir

Pahani said:


> Thanks for that chuckle Jim, made my day!



I spit my coffee all over the desk because of this LOL! Thanks Jim


----------



## oneguy

Whitigir said:


> Beautiful! Now you need XF2 Quad


There is always a rabbit to chase, the hard part is determining which one and how fast


----------



## SeaWo|f

@JimL11 Of course everything you said was right, perhaps the sarcasm did not come though in my post.


----------



## JimL11

I thought you might be being sarcastic, but I wasn't sure.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

astrostar59 said:


> So my ears weren't playing trick on me? It is a paradox this amp, little is known outside of Germany it seems, and the designer is eccentric for sure, but obviously knows his subject. If only it had a cheaper variant for either planars or stats only, not both. And forget the amp function. If it was 8k for example, and with that sound, it would be a game changer for the finished product market and high end headphone amps. At 14k it is over priced. Yes the Woo Audio WA33 is about the same price, but at least that looks the part, and in that case has less tubes. I am not so comfortable with 22 tubes TBH.
> 
> It would be interesting indeed to pitch it against a DIY T2. I am super curious how much the T2 is different to the BHSE or Carbon. This Mal Valve was so different in it's presentation, it wasn't subtle. Not saying one is correct or even accurate, only the Mal Valve impressed me a lot, as it did to the 3 hifi dealers with me and 2 audio designers as well.
> 
> Just goes to show, there are gems around still in this hobby.



It absolute is a high-end amplifier, so Mal Valve at least placed it at an appropiately named show. My biggest issue with it was the heat, it made touching the amp unpleasant. Mr. Mallach mentioned that he could bias the tubes slightly lower without noticeable changes to the sound quality, which would get rid of a little bit of the temperature, but the sheer number of tubes - more than 20, all placed on the top - simply means there's going to be a lot of heat anyways. 
The amplifier is basically a integrated amplifier based on the KT120 in push-pull configuration, with a differential driver stage for each channel and a matching input stage. If I'm not mistaken, its fully balanced from input right up to the output transformers. Or to phrase it in a different way: Mallach combined the design of his smaller power amplifiers and that of his preamps in one single device and added an output for dynamic and electrostatic headphones. It's more of a high-end integrated amp for speakers that just happens to also drive headphones very well, than a headphone amp with additional outputs for speakers. From that perspective the design is easier to understand. 

Mal Valve has been around for many years, but the company never seemed to really bother about markets outside of Germany, or the EU respectively. Personally, I cannot tell why. 
In german speaking countries they've got a very high reputation - their top models are considered absolute references and hardly ever show up for resale. But as you mentioned, prices are steep, and as far as I know they also ask quite some money for technical checkups and repairs. 

On this years High-End in Munich I had an opportunity to listen to the new SR-009S driven by the SRM-T8000. From memory, the SR-009 combined with the big Mal Valve amplifier played in a higher league.


----------



## JimL11 (May 19, 2018)

AManAnd88Keys said:


> The amplifier is basically a integrated amplifier based on the KT120 in push-pull configuration, with a differential driver stage for each channel and a matching input stage. If I'm not mistaken, its fully balanced from input right up to the output transformers. Or to phrase it in a different way: Mallach combined the design of his smaller power amplifiers and that of his preamps in one single device and added an output for dynamic and electrostatic headphones. It's more of a high-end integrated amp for speakers that just happens to also drive headphones very well, than a headphone amp with additional outputs for speakers. From that perspective the design is easier to understand.



That's very interesting. It seems that it would really be overkill as a headphone amplifier, since KT120 tubes run best at standing currents that are significantly higher than the EL34 tubes used in top electrostatic headphone amps, and the latter already have ample standing current. As to its design, it would seem to use differential amps from input to output. Other electrostatic tube headphone amps which share this topology include (from the simplest to most complex), the TubeCAD, SRX-Plus and Megatron, although both of the latter use some solid state in support roles, in the form of current sources. The Megatron with its eight EL34 tubes has been jokingly suggested to double as a space heater, so I suppose the MalValve would double as a how furnace.  Probably not the best thing to run in the summer.


----------



## wuwhere

I wonder if the KT120s are swappable with KT150s.


----------



## JimL11

wuwhere said:


> I wonder if the KT120s are swappable with KT150s.



Swapping small signal tubes such as 12A_7s, 6DJ8s, etc. generally only incurs the risk of a malfunctioning circuit due to the swapped tube having inappropriate electrical parameters for the specific circuit. Swapping power tubes, OTOH, carries the additional risk of serious damage to the amplifier if the bias voltage needed by the new tube is too different from the original tube - for example, in the BHSE, inserting a KT77 in place of an EL34 will ZAP (technical term) the amp according to its designer, and is not recommended. OTOH, other amps are designed to allow swapping output tubes - generally these will say so in their advertising. The safe thing to do is consult the designer, who should know.  Absent that, if the specs do not specifically state it is OK to swap tubes, I assume the answer is no. The possibility of marginally better sound balanced against the possibility of a blown amp is not worth it - but that's just me.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

JimL11 said:


> That's very interesting. It seems that it would really be overkill as a headphone amplifier, since KT120 tubes run best at standing currents that are significantly higher than the EL34 tubes used in top electrostatic headphone amps, and the latter already have ample standing current. As to its design, it would seem to use differential amps from input to output. Other electrostatic tube headphone amps which share this topology include (from the simplest to most complex), the TubeCAD, SRX-Plus and Megatron, although both of the latter use some solid state in support roles, in the form of current sources. The Megatron with its eight EL34 tubes has been jokingly suggested to double as a space heater, so I suppose the MalValve would double as a how furnace.  Probably not the best thing to run in the summer.



Furnace comes closer than you might think. The attenuator knob at the front was so hot, if I had kept my fingers on it for maybe 20-30 seconds I would have gotten first degree burns. I am NOT exaggerating, not even a bit. That was the reason in the first place why I asked Mr. Mallach if anything could be done about all the heat.

Soundwise that amplifier is pretty much faultless, but for more than 10k I would expect a design that deals better with the temperature. Especially since other manufacturers know how to do it for less money. Not that I don't like the straight forward industrial design, but when two dozen tubes or more are being used in close proximity you should come up with something.


----------



## Whitigir

Nothing good quality can generate less heat, a T2 has a lot of heat, and even if you are willing to throw 10k...you won’t find it LOL

A Carbon also generate a lot of heat 

So that amp with all the tubes ? 22 ? Is probably a fire place by it filaments, let alone if it is powerful and good design.  May want to have fairy dust coolant for the chassis


----------



## AManAnd88Keys (May 19, 2018)

JimL11 said:


> Swapping small signal tubes such as 12A_7s, 6DJ8s, etc. generally only incurs the risk of a malfunctioning circuit due to the swapped tube having inappropriate electrical parameters for the specific circuit. Swapping power tubes, OTOH, carries the additional risk of serious damage to the amplifier if the bias voltage needed by the new tube is too different from the original tube - for example, in the BHSE, inserting a KT77 in place of an EL34 will ZAP (technical term) the amp according to its designer, and is not recommended. OTOH, other amps are designed to allow swapping output tubes - generally these will say so in their advertising. The safe thing to do is consult the designer, who should know.  Absent that, if the specs do not specifically state it is OK to swap tubes, I assume the answer is no. The possibility of marginally better sound balanced against the possibility of a blown amp is not worth it - but that's just me.



I agree. As someone who has build his own tube amplifiers and knows something about how classical tube circuits work, this is how I would approach the issue:

1) ask the designer which kind of tube works in which position of the amp.
2) if there is no designer that you can talk to, because it's an old design or some other reason makes it impossible to find out what the inventor recommends, you need to study the circuit. Sometimes schematics are available, sometimes you need to draw your own. If the circuit is commonplace, you can deduct most of it from other schematics. At times the differences are small, maybe a different tube in one of the stages, other operating points or voltages...
3) If you need to take a closer look at the circuit to find out what works and what doesn't, you probably need to study datasheets too. Otherwise chances are high that you put in a different tube, and you might even set it at a good bias point, but the overall perfomance is worse than it was before. A tube needs to be chosen because it is capable of doing certain things (which also means you need to implement it in the correct way), not because it's a famous or rare tube or because it works so well in another circuit. Yes, some tubes are great designs and simply wonderful examples of engineering, but sometimes they're just the wrong tube for the job.
A simple example: putting in a rare and rather costly early production Siemens ECC83 (12AX7) instead of a some-other-brand ECC82 (12AU7) could work in some circuits, but regardless of sound quality you'd end up with a much higher amplification factor. In some cases that's okay, in others it could mean trouble. If you understand at least some of the main propertiers of the tube you are working with beforehand, your decision will be much better and troubleshooting will also be easier. With sufficient understanding and the right tube(s) at hand, some commercial designs can certainly be improved upon.


----------



## JimL11 (May 19, 2018)

AManAnd88Keys said:


> Furnace comes closer than you might think. The attenuator knob at the front was so hot, if I had kept my fingers on it for maybe 20-30 seconds I would have gotten first degree burns. I am NOT exaggerating, not even a bit. That was the reason in the first place why I asked Mr. Mallach if anything could be done about all the heat.
> 
> Soundwise that amplifier is pretty much faultless, but for more than 10k I would expect a design that deals better with the temperature. Especially since other manufacturers know how to do it for less money. Not that I don't like the straight forward industrial design, but when two dozen tubes or more are being used in close proximity you should come up with something.



While tubes have to run hot - after all, they work by thermionic emission - having the tubes too close together and hence exposed to excessive heat can indeed be a problem. As Toner points out in his book "Getting the Most out of Vacuum Tubes, "the most effective way of reducing all kinds of tube failures is to lower the temperature of their envelopes." I can well imagine that with 22 tubes packed into a relatively small space, even in the open air, that could be an issue.



AManAnd88Keys said:


> I agree. As someone who has build his own tube amplifiers and knows something about how classical tube circuits work, this is how I would approach the issue:
> 
> 1) ask the designer which kind of tube works in which position of the amp.
> 2) if there is no designer that you can talk to, because it's an old design or some other reason makes it impossible to find out what the inventor recommends, you need to study the circuit. Sometimes schematics are available, sometimes you need to draw your own. If the circuit is commonplace, you can deduct most of it from other schematics. At times the differences are small, maybe a different tube in one of the stages, other operating points or voltages...
> ...



Having built a couple of tube electronics, I concur with your experiences.

BTW, I see by the moniker that you play the piano? Also, I have a very good friend in Pisa.


----------



## astrostar59

JimL, do you think that Mal Valve amp is fully tube for the gain stags, i.e. no solid state devices in the gain stage? If all tube, mate that is why or part the reason it sounded so good, aside from the design of it. BTW it did feel hot to me as well, as did the 6K 'smaller' headphone amp version, also which power Stats and Planars, and has 'only' 10 tubes LOL.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

JimL11 said:


> While tubes have to run hot - after all, they work by thermionic emission - having the tubes too close together and hence exposed to excessive heat can indeed be a problem. As Toner points out in his book "Getting the Most out of Vacuum Tubes, "the most effective way of reducing all kinds of tube failures is to lower the temperature of their envelopes." I can well imagine that with 22 tubes packed into a relatively small space, even in the open air, that could be an issue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes I do, albeit not that much currently. I studied jazz piano for a couple of semesters in Vienna and went for a different career (and a different city) after that period. I still play regularly though, I start to feel uneasy when I haven't played in a while. 

Pisa is quite a trip from where I live. I went to Tuscany last March, but didn't visit Pisa unfortunately.


----------



## AManAnd88Keys

astrostar59 said:


> JimL, do you think that Mal Valve amp is fully tube for the gain stags, i.e. no solid state devices in the gain stage? If all tube, mate that is why or part the reason it sounded so good, aside from the design of it. BTW it did feel hot to me as well, as did the 6K 'smaller' headphone amp version, also which power Stats and Planars, and has 'only' 10 tubes LOL.



I know that your question isn't directed at me, but given that I know a few things about Mal Valve it's maybe okay if I say something too. As far as I know all Mal Valve designs are 100% full tube, no exceptions. Even Mallachs latest invention, a tube crossover, uses only tubes in the signal path. It's one of his hallmarks.


----------



## JimL11

astrostar59 said:


> JimL, do you think that Mal Valve amp is fully tube for the gain stags, i.e. no solid state devices in the gain stage? If all tube, mate that is why or part the reason it sounded so good, aside from the design of it. BTW it did feel hot to me as well, as did the 6K 'smaller' headphone amp version, also which power Stats and Planars, and has 'only' 10 tubes LOL.



With that many tubes, I would think there would be ample gain without resorting to solid state. In the SRX-Plus and Megatron, solid state current sources are used to improve diff amp balance (both), maximize gain (Megatron), improve isolation from the negative power supply (both), and maximize the efficiency of the output stage in delivering current to the headphones (SRX Plus). In the MalValve, which uses KT120 outputs with transformers, the amount of standing current is overkill for driving electrostatic headphones. However, it is possible that some of the tubes are used as tail current sources for the differential stages, as a three, or even four stage diff amp topology, which should supply sufficient gain, wouldn't need 11 tubes per side.

As has been pointed out, this amp is primarily designed as a speaker amp, and while it can be used as a stat headphone amp, it is grossly inefficient for that task. to the point of being environmentally irresponsible. The smaller Mal Valve Three headphone amp uses 2 ECC81/12AT7 input tubes, 4 ECL184 pentode driver tubes and 4 6V6 output tubes. As it has both RCA and balanced inputs, it most likely uses diff amps throughout, with planar and dynamic headphones driven via transformer outputs, and electrostatic outputs either directly or with capacitor coupling. 

Now the 6V6 outputs have a maximum rated plate voltage of 315 volts, compared to 450 volts for 6SN7GTB outputs as in the SRX Plus, and 600-800 volts for triode connected EL34s, such as the BHSE uses, so the Mal Valve will have lower voltage output limits compared to most electrostatic headphone amps, although there is probably more standing current available compared to the 6SN7GTB. However, as I have shown elsewhere, the use of constant current source loading of a relatively puny tube such as a 6SN7GTB can actually allow it to deliver more signal current to an electrostatic headphone than an EL34 with a plate resistor load. Assuming the Mal Valve takes the electrostatic drive off the 6V6 outputs with an unloaded transformer in parallel, the question would be, how much signal current can actually go to electrostatic headphones versus how much is burned up in the transformer. It may well turn out that the Mal Valve is significantly less powerful in current as well as voltage limits for driving electrostatic headphones compared to even the SRX Plus. This is the compromise the Mal Valve makes as a universal headphone amp.


----------



## astrostar59

JimL, he told me the amp can do 2400v for stats. I am most curious in this amp as it was so very different to other stat amps in sound that I have heard to date. It played super loud if required with no sign of compression, and the timbre and voicing was superb. Really it made the 009 sound like a totally different HP, I was surprised. I am not talking coloration, rather timbre, accuracy and tonally realistic, as opposed to detail forward and cold sounding. It made me want to buy the amp and the 009s TBH, but I can see the impracticality of the amp (and it's cost). The LCD4 on the same amp was on par IMO, different, but I could love with either. So in 'theory' the LCD4 powered by a top all tube amp would be my path if I was looking at another amp or HP system. There are lots of tube based amps that can drive the Planars, and something I may explore at some point.

This path I may take depends on what I do with my power amp which is solid state. If I go for an Aries Cerat integrated which is all tube output, it would have a headphone out as well, so may 'upgrade' both HP and speakers.


----------



## JimL11 (May 20, 2018)

astrostar59 said:


> JimL, he told me the amp can do 2400v for stats.



Which amp can do 2400V? I'm assuming the 22 tube amp? As a general rule, for a push-pull amp, the maximum peak-to-peak output is on the order of 4 times the B+ supply, so for the Mal Valve headphone amp, which uses 6V6 outputs, the maximum plate voltage on the 6V6 is specified as 315 volts, which means its max output is on the order of 1200V. With KT120 outputs, the maximum plate voltage is around 600 volts, so if that is the B+ supply voltage it could do close to 2400 volts peak-to-peak.

For perspective, note that the BHSE has a nominal PS voltage of +400/-400 so can put out close to 1600 volts peak-to-peak, and the DIY T2 has a PS of +500/-500 so can put out close to 2000 volts peak-to-peak. However, since subjective loudness is logarithmic, the difference in ultimate loudness between a 400 volt supply and a 500 volt supply is 2 dB, and 400 volt vs a 600 volt supply will produce an additional 3.5 dB loudness, where 10 dB is required to double the subjective loudness in the midrange. Since most Stax headphones other than the SR002/3 are rated around 100 dB for 100VRMS = 283 volts peak-to-peak, any amp with a +/- 300 volt supply can produce a sound pressure level of 112 dB. This is subjectively twice as loud as a jackhammer at 1 meter, and loud enough to cause hearing damage within one minute. An amp that produces 2400 volts peak-to-peak will sound 6 dB louder, at maximum volume, and at that level can cause permanent hearing damage in less than 30 seconds, and may also destroy the headphones.


----------



## kylev

oneguy said:


> My GG and Carbon finally came. Thanks @soren_brix for making this happen.


Beautiful setup you have there! 

I think it has been a week right since you listened to both Carbon and KGGG? 
Keen to share your impressions please to compare Carbon and KGGG? 

I love Carbon so far with my 009 and Gumby. Gumby is a bit warm hence although Carbon is solid state, it just feels right and sound bit tubey to my ear and the bass is amazing with Carbon!
Some says that 009 pairs better with tube, but when I tried it with BHSE last time, I feel that it is somehow bit slower sounding and more intimate compare to Carbon.

Does KGGG also sound similar to BHSE in case you have heard one?


----------



## astrostar59

Hi JimL, thanks for that detailed information. My ideal for this amp would be less tubes, no speaker option and only Stats if was a top tier Stat amp to take on the best there is. At the moment it is too complex, too hot and to many tubes, plus trying to do too many things.

Having said all this, it is the best I have heard the 009s to date, my preferred signature. Is there a KG amp that has 'all tube' gain stage, maybe the Megatron? It is the old subject it seems, to my ears, albeit my tastes and opinion, tube gain stages do sound very good (if done well of course). Even on speaker setups at Munich HiEnd, I am struggling to name an SS amp based system that equaled the medium to best tube based ones. Huge generalisations, and we have had this conversation before on here and the other place, but that seems my view, to my ears. Pity, I actually prefer running SS, less hassle, more practical etc.

I can feel the draw of a big SET amp with a decent HP output as well, it is dragging me towards it, no escape..... damb. TBH budgets hold me back on that for now. Until them my SS Plinius on full Class A setting (gets hot) sounds close, but but....


----------



## astrostar59

kylev said:


> Beautiful setup you have there!
> 
> I think it has been a week right since you listened to both Carbon and KGGG?
> Keen to share your impressions please to compare Carbon and KGGG?
> ...



My impressions on the BHSE v Carbon (later bigger PS and extra 15v boards) is they are v close, some say one or the other is best. With the right tubes for your system, the BHSE may have the edge re realistic timbre, the Carbon bit faster and stronger bass and bass detail. The ability to run warmer tubes in the BHSE is a great thing for the 009s IMO. With the 007s the BHSE with stock tubes probably is fine, bit more treble detail to push the slower and darker 007s. My thoughts and others MMV.


----------



## powertoold (May 20, 2018)

Wasn't the original T2 able to do something like +/- 680v?

Correction: 630v


----------



## JimL11

astrostar59 said:


> Hi JimL, thanks for that detailed information. My ideal for this amp would be less tubes, no speaker option and only Stats if was a top tier Stat amp to take on the best there is. At the moment it is too complex, too hot and to many tubes, plus trying to do too many things.
> 
> Having said all this, it is the best I have heard the 009s to date, my preferred signature. Is there a KG amp that has 'all tube' gain stage, maybe the Megatron? It is the old subject it seems, to my ears, albeit my tastes and opinion, tube gain stages do sound very good (if done well of course).



For all or mostly tube stat amps, AFAIK the options are:

DIY or commission a builder:

SRX-Plus - 6SN7GTB outputs, inexpensive, close to BHSE level sound quality, a friend who has heard both says the BHSE is more controlled, the SRX Plus more free-flowing, only uses 60 watts vs 180 for BHSE. Ali-Pacha has posted some subjective comments on Head-Fi and elsewhere. Blueman2 and sorrodje have also posted subjective comments elsewhere.

Megatron - BHSE level, generates 40 watts more heat due to eight EL34 tubes vs. four EL34 tubes. There is a Megatron thread elsewhere on Head-Fi.

Frank Cooter SE 845 amp - he has published the schematics. 76 input tube (can substitute a 6P5), triode connected 6V6 driver, 845 output. Needs custom transformers for driver and output stage.

Note that these could be classified as hybrid because they all use solid state constant current sources, however I consider them tube amps because all the active amplification devices are tubes. An ideal constant current source would have no signal current passing through it, so should have no effect on the sound. Since there is no such thing as an ideal current source, there is likely to be some effect but it should be small compared to the effect of the tube amplification.


Commercial:

Woo 3ES - new, $7650 and up. Possible concerns include bodged bias supplies based on previous Woo amps, likely passive PS, 300B outputs so likely less voltage output compared to even a 6SN7GTB based output amp unless they are using a low ratio step-up output transformer (Woo won't say, "proprietary" technology)

Viva Audio  showed a new electrostatic headphone amp at NYC CanJam, > $10,000, IIRC 845 SET with transformer outputs, not yet on their website however

HeadAmp - Aristaeus $4000. Coming out with a new tube electrostatic headphone amp using 20B DHT tubes, expected to be $10,000 or more. 

HiFiMan Sr. - uses 300B outputs so less voltage output than 6SN7GTB outputs. Absurdly expensive.


----------



## JimL11

powertoold said:


> Wasn't the original T2 able to do something like +/- 680v?
> 
> Correction: 630v



The original T2 was rated as 630V RMS at 1 kHz, which is 1780+ volts peak-to-peak. Compared to 2000 volts peak-to-peak that is 1 dB less. As mentioned above, the theoretical maximum is 4 times the B+ voltage or twice the B+ plus B- voltage. This is assuming that the output devices are able to swing all the way to the rails (or ground). In reality they don't quite make it. Also, distortion goes up significantly as they approach the limits, so the actual output will always be less, especially if you take distortion into account. However, using the power supply rails to estimate maximum output is a useful approximation.


----------



## oneguy

kylev said:


> Beautiful setup you have there!
> 
> I think it has been a week right since you listened to both Carbon and KGGG?
> Keen to share your impressions please to compare Carbon and KGGG?
> ...



Unfortunately I only had 3 nights with the amps before leaving on a 2 week vacation so these impressions as preliminary. Also, I only have an L700 so extrapolate what you will from this for a 009. 

Carbon vs GG:
The Carbon has the edge over the GG in precision. To explain what I mean by “precision” I mean quick, sharply defined notes and more surgical (clinical). Precision like one would think of in the HD800 sense. The Carbon also has an brighter emphasis. In contrast the GG is moral musical (maybe sensual is a better word?) and less clinical, not that being clinical is a bad thing given the situation. The GG has more of a tilt towards the mids. For bass the Carbon meets you with quick and right impact. The decay is similar to the leading edge. The GG smooths it out a bit. I feel they are both one the same level for instrument separation although the Carbon may give the impression of better separation due to sounding more clinical. 

I didn’t pay alot of attention to soundstage width because to my ears the L700 don’t have a particularly wide sound so there is only so much an amp can do to fix that

GG vs KGST:
The GG is better across the board as one would expect given the designs. The KGST isn’t a slouch though for the price range you find them at. The KGST instrument separation was no where near the GG. Both had the classic tube sound that I have come to find out that I like (at least with the L700). I’ll have to give more time to back to back KGST and GG comparisons as my main focus before I left were the new amps. 

GG vs BHSE:
I have heard the BHSE but unfortunately it wasn’t through an L700 so I feel like it would an apples and oranges comparison. I heard the BHSE through the 009 which I didn’t care for at all but I find the same issue with the 009 through Stax amps too so I feel like it’s the headphones fault. I have also heard the Voce through the BHSE. The problems I have with that combination were at the opposite end of the spectrum with a very heavy emphasis on the lose frequencies and  very little sound up top. 

I’ll have more to share when I get back home in June. I’m also hoping to have some other e-stat enthusiasts over to compare other amp/headphone combinations in June.


----------



## kylev

astrostar59 said:


> My impressions on the BHSE v Carbon (later bigger PS and extra 15v boards) is they are v close, some say one or the other is best. With the right tubes for your system, the BHSE may have the edge re realistic timbre, the Carbon bit faster and stronger bass and bass detail. The ability to run warmer tubes in the BHSE is a great thing for the 009s IMO. With the 007s the BHSE with stock tubes probably is fine, bit more treble detail to push the slower and darker 007s. My thoughts and others MMV.



Thanks for sharing your impression as well. Yes, Carbon brings out better textured bass for 009 and I really like bass in 009 with Carbon, it has big impact. 
I am also enjoying this Carbon with bass port modded 007 MKII (SZ3 model), although somehow I feel 009 is something I prefer more due to its comfort, and perhaps its analytical sound signature coming from HD800 background


----------



## kylev

oneguy said:


> Unfortunately I only had 3 nights with the amps before leaving on a 2 week vacation so these impressions as preliminary. Also, I only have an L700 so extrapolate what you will from this for a 009.
> 
> Carbon vs GG:
> The Carbon has the edge over the GG in precision. To explain what I mean by “precision” I mean quick, sharply defined notes and more surgical (clinical). Precision like one would think of in the HD800 sense. The Carbon also has an brighter emphasis. In contrast the GG is moral musical (maybe sensual is a better word?) and less clinical, not that being clinical is a bad thing given the situation. The GG has more of a tilt towards the mids. For bass the Carbon meets you with quick and right impact. The decay is similar to the leading edge. The GG smooths it out a bit. I feel they are both one the same level for instrument separation although the Carbon may give the impression of better separation due to sounding more clinical.
> ...



Thank you very much @oneguy for your preliminary assessment, especially while you are away during your vacation, appreciate that! 

I was about to order KGGG as well, but reading your impressions on it, I think I will stick with Carbon for now, since I am really enjoying it anyway with both my 009 and 007.
There is one thing I crave more to enhance in my system is to improve its soundstage, it does have great soundstage now, but I think I need more width and spacious.

I am not sure if upgrading the DAC will improve its soundstage (?). Heard many good reviews about Holo Audio Spring Level 3 KTE in which some says it shall widen the soundstage better.
But I haven't come across anyone comparing it with Gumby or using it in their electrostatic / stax setup.

Perhaps anyone has listened to Holo Audio KTE (Level 3) with KG amps?


----------



## joseph69

kylev said:


> Perhaps anyone has listened to Holo Audio KTE (Level 3) with KG amps?


Had the PS Audio Perfectwave DAC-ll w/Bridge-ll feeding the BHSE 009/007Mkll, switched over to the KTE Holo Spring DAC and never looked back, or any further.


----------



## Rossliew

kylev said:


> Thank you very much @oneguy for your preliminary assessment, especially while you are away during your vacation, appreciate that!
> 
> I was about to order KGGG as well, but reading your impressions on it, I think I will stick with Carbon for now, since I am really enjoying it anyway with both my 009 and 007.
> There is one thing I crave more to enhance in my system is to improve its soundstage, it does have great soundstage now, but I think I need more width and spacious.
> ...



Cables play a part as well. I've had good experience with Audioquest elements cables. YMMV


----------



## Eich1eeF (May 21, 2018)

I've just ordered a 727, and I hope it'll arrive by the end of the week. Concerning the gain mod (i.e. replacing R5 and R6 with 200ohm parts):

Are there any sonic benefits, or is this just for consistency in case one owns multiple Stax amps? If I perform this mod, I'd like to use the same size of MELF resistor for the replacement. Does anyone know what size, power rating etc. would be the right choice?

Another question: a friend of mine owns a SRM-310 with a scratchy volume potentiometer. When I tried to find a replacement online, I failed because the type designation printed on it didn't quite match the APLS documents. I suspect that I only have to snip off a few legs of a standard type I can buy online to replace the thing, but which part exactly do I have to buy?


----------



## natto lover

Eich1eeF said:


> I've just ordered a 727, and I hope it'll arrive by the end of the week. Concerning the gain mod (i.e. replacing R5 and R6 with 200ohm parts):
> 
> Are there any sonic benefits, or is this just for consistency in case one owns multiple Stax amps? If I perform this mod, I'd like to use the same size of MELF resistor for the replacement. Does anyone know what size, power rating etc. would be the right choice?
> 
> Another question: a friend of mine owns a SRM-310 with a scratchy volume potentiometer. When I tried to find a replacement online, I failed because the type designation printed on it didn't quite match the APLS documents. I suspect that I only have to snip off a few legs of a standard type I can buy online to replace the thing, but which part exactly do I have to buy?


what is the label on the original pot? 50K特X2?


----------



## Eich1eeF

natto lover said:


> what is the label on the original pot? 50K特X2?


If I read it correctly, it's actually

503A
45 1X


----------



## Pokemonn (May 23, 2018)

damn it! i just noticed a simple fact. i cound notice this simple fact as a hard fact until today.....

computer audio = sound not so good....

many posters/contoributers suggested this simple real fact many times before.
I just codnt realize it. damn it. really sad. lol
Stax is not bad. computer is not so good.

Thank you very much for your advices/posts! thanks again!

chao(Anakchan and JimL may understand this Oyaji joke lol)


----------



## JimL11

Eich1eeF said:


> I've just ordered a 727, and I hope it'll arrive by the end of the week. Concerning the gain mod (i.e. replacing R5 and R6 with 200ohm parts):
> 
> Are there any sonic benefits, or is this just for consistency in case one owns multiple Stax amps? If I perform this mod, I'd like to use the same size of MELF resistor for the replacement. Does anyone know what size, power rating etc. would be the right choice?



I believe that spritzer, who first did the feedback mod, later dropped the gain mod and only recommended doing the global negative feedback mod, although I can't seem to find that post. In any case, it is easy to just turn up the volume a bit. You should use 350V rated resistors for the global feedback mod, BTW. You should also check the output voltages after the modification, when the amp has warmed up for 30min or an hour with the cover on, you may need to adjust the balance and offset pots if the output voltages are more than 10-15 volts with respect to ground (balance adjusts the voltage between the positive and negative outputs of the same channel, offset adjusts the voltages of both outputs up or down with respect to ground). Note that the voltage may shift a bit when you remove the cover to do the adjustment so there's no point in being obsessive about it.


----------



## gilency (May 23, 2018)

Pokemonn said:


> damn it! i just noticed a simple fact. i cound notice this simple fact as a hard fact until today.....
> 
> computer audio = sound not so good....
> 
> ...



That premise is plain wrong.
It depends on what you are using.


----------



## Pokemonn (May 23, 2018)

yeah i know it depends on gear.
its just "in my experiences". so its not right or wrong thing.
my iMac 5k retina(120W power consumption which emit huge digital/RF noises) really doesnt cut my job imo.
cheap traditional CDPs just cut it FOR ME.
even Suzuki-san(chief engineer of Stax) hinted me that directly out of CDP sound best in his e-mail..


----------



## SeaWo|f

As a broad statement I think it's fair. General purpose off the shelf computers are not optimised for isolation on the usb and have relatively poor clocking. The prevalence of boxes to address this I think is the best evidence. 

When going from a PC to dac my preference is optical. But the only time I do that is gaming and music videos on YouTube so not exactly great quantity..


----------



## Pokemonn (May 24, 2018)

I agree.
any high-end source system are still CDPs. Chord Blue mk2 Accuphase dCs vivaldi etc.
Monster company Sony just restart manufacuturing vinyl LPs.
also monster Toshiba released High rez cassette tape deck plan.
Denon just removed USB/digital inputs from their latest CDP lineups.
Schiit audio going to start to sell turntables!
Stax is planning to sell build in phono EQer(not DAC) for their latest amp. SRM-T8000.

Things are throwback! they know people hates digital noises. muhahahaha


----------



## Rhamnetin

SeaWo|f said:


> As a broad statement I think it's fair. General purpose off the shelf computers are not optimised for isolation on the usb and have relatively poor clocking. The prevalence of boxes to address this I think is the best evidence.
> 
> When going from a PC to dac my preference is optical. But the only time I do that is gaming and music videos on YouTube so not exactly great quantity..



Yeah it's not even just general off the shelf computers, even these higher end motherboards with "gaming audio" have the issue. I need a digital interface between my PC and the DAC when using USB, otherwise the sound is highly distorted and noisy. Maybe just a ground loop isolator would do, but all I know is that any digital interface (had a Gustard U12, now a Breeze DU-U8) fixes the issue.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Yes the high-end onboard sound for gaming mobos is more about the software suite from either realtech, creative labs or asus, and a more powerful opamp. In recent years they have started trying to isolate the audio part of the board but using usb would obviously negate this, most of these boards to have an optical out for hookup to a surround sound receiver. I have an msi board that has this setup. Never have bothered to compare sound quality with my dedicated server, or the tos vs usb vs coax on the board. I just figure the tos keeps my dac isolated from electrical noise on my pc.


----------



## Whitigir (May 28, 2018)

Computer does not suck....if you know what you are doing and build one for the purpose...like mine.  It is the best for digital transportation in sound quality.  There are build that cost $16,000 *Sound Gallery *for example
More to come





Take a look at Sound Gallery streamer here
https://www.audiostream.com/content/sound-galleries-sgm-2015-music-server


----------



## Rodeodave

I have an SRM-007tA on the way, could anyone please provide me (or point me towards) a schematic of the 007tA (or 007t ii)? I've searched but haven't found anything useful thus far.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Whitigir said:


> Computer does not suck....if you know what you are doing and build one for the purpose...like mine.  It is the best for digital transportation in sound quality.  There are build that cost $16,000 *Sound Gallery *for example
> More to come



I like the case.

My point was that what you built is exactly what one has to do to optimize for clean audio. You cant just go out and buy something off amazon or even build your own in a normal way. It has to be a well though out process with steps that are unique to audio pcs.

My music server is exactly that too, I just didnt DIY it.


----------



## statfi

Could someone tell me the material that is used to make rings that holds the ear pads in place in the SR-009?  These are flat rings with an outer diameter of ~4" that are right under the dust screens that slip into the ear pads.  Are they aluminum, steel, ...?


----------



## jgazal

https://www.fujiya-avic.jp/blog/?p=39630


----------



## JimL11 (May 28, 2018)

Rodeodave said:


> I have an SRM-007tA on the way, could anyone please provide me (or point me towards) a schematic of the 007tA (or 007t ii)? I've searched but haven't found anything useful thus far.



AFAIK, the input and intermediate sections of the SRM-007 are the same as the SRM-T1. You can find schematics of the latter on the internet w/o too much problem. Some of the transistors have been changed due to the originally specified ones becoming obsolete, etc. Also, the power supply has been upgraded in that the zener regulation of the low voltage front end has been changed to 7815/7915 IC regulators. The output stage is the main difference between the T1 and 007.

Here is a schematic of the output stage, along with the upgraded power supply. Because the output stage uses two dual triode 6FQ7 tubes, there are two additional pots (TVR3 and TVR4) to balance the tube sections, as well as the previous balance (TVR1) and offset (TVR2) pots. TVR1 is not shown as it is (probably) located in the intermediate stage.  In addition, the bias supply of the 007 has a 4.7 megohm safety resistor after last capacitor. Note this shows the earlier version that had Normal as well as Pro bias output sockets. HTH.


----------



## Ronsanut

Pokemonn said:


> Does anyone use tube preamp/buffer amp/DACs for your Stax rig? what is your favorite tube units?
> I found tube pre amp makes sound much smoother.
> 
> Marantz SA11S3 -> Schiit Lyr2(as pre amp) -> Stax SRM-717 -> SR-009/007 = eargasm heaven!
> ...



I use a Schiit Gungnir Multibit DAC -> Schiit Mjolnir 2 (with Tubes) -> Stax 353X -> SR L700 = Unbelivably awesome!


----------



## Pokemonn

Ronsanut said:


> I use a Schiit Gungnir Multibit DAC -> Schiit Mjolnir 2 (with Tubes) -> Stax 353X -> SR L700 = Unbelivably awesome!



nice setup!
I personally believe Schiit tube (pre)amps are better than the SRM-T8000(tube inputs stage). becouse you can roll your tubes.


----------



## Ronsanut

Thanks.  I do have the Solid State Tubs from Schiit as well. And I bought a set of tubes on-line, but I have not rolled any yet.


----------



## Whitigir

Ronsanut said:


> Thanks.  I do have the Solid State Tubs from Schiit as well. And I bought a set of tubes on-line, but I have not rolled any yet.


When you started rolling, you will just keep on going .  This hobby never stops


----------



## cjeong

Hey, I was thinking of buying a Woo GES, but then I heard a lot of things that it would destroy my headphones. Can someone confirm this?


----------



## JimL11

cjeong said:


> Hey, I was thinking of buying a Woo GES, but then I heard a lot of things that it would destroy my headphones. Can someone confirm this?



So, the Woo GES is reportedly based on Kevin Gilmore's all triode electrostatic amp designed in the 1990s. However, at least in the past, Woo has been, shall we say, lackadaisical about using  either 4.7 megohm or 5.1 megohm safety resistor after the last capacitor in their bias supplies, which is what Stax uses in all their modern amps, as does Gilmore. This has shown up in their WEE converter boxes as documented by spritzer on Head-Fi in the past. The potential problem is that over time an inadequately high resistor value could damage the headphone diaphragms by allowing too much charge to discharge into the diaphragm. I don't know if that has actually happened, however.


----------



## cjeong

Does anyone have any horror stories about the GES they'd like to share?


----------



## joseph69

@cjeong 
Have you seen this?


----------



## cjeong

That looks awesome! Unfortunately, I'm looking to make a purchase in the distant future and was just wondering about the Woo GES.


----------



## 336881

I do not have a horror story but the GES is not the best sounding energizer for the money. A Mjolnir Octave v1 or KGST is a much better option. Finding a builder on here is even better but may take a while to build.


----------



## cjeong

How about the Octave v2? That would be my backup option


----------



## cjeong

JimL11 said:


> The potential problem is that over time an inadequately high resistor value could damage the headphone diaphragms by allowing too much charge to discharge into the diaphragm.


Sorry for the double post, but I heard that the Stax SR-007MK2 requires more power than other Stax to properly drive, due to it's impedance being 170kohms. If the Woo GES has a inadequately high resistor value, would the Stax SR-007MK2s be okay?


----------



## JimL11

The Octave V2 appears to be a somewhat simplified KGSSHV with decreased output standing current and a passive PS. It appears to be significantly smaller than the Stax amps but probably as powerful, or close to it. Don't know how it compares sonically with the 323/353 series, used 717 or 727 with global feedback mod, but would expect all of them to have a solid-state sound signature. The GES is functionally less powerful than any of these due to the use of output plate resistors. The KGST, KGSS or KGSSHV are comparable in power, and all have the benefits of a regulated power supply, but of course costs more. The KGSSHV has the advantage of a higher voltage swing, and the KGST has some tube flavoring, which some prefer.


----------



## cjeong

JimL11 said:


> The Octave V2 appears to be a somewhat simplified KGSSHV with decreased output standing current and a passive PS. It appears to be significantly smaller than the Stax amps but probably as powerful, or close to it. Don't know how it compares sonically with the 323/353 series, used 717 or 727 with global feedback mod, but would expect all of them to have a solid-state sound signature. The GES is functionally less powerful than any of these due to the use of output plate resistors. The KGST, KGSS or KGSSHV are comparable in power, and all have the benefits of a regulated power supply, but of course costs more. The KGSSHV has the advantage of a higher voltage swing, and the KGST has some tube flavoring, which some prefer.


OK, thank you. I think I'm going to go with the Octave V2


----------



## JimL11 (Jun 3, 2018)

cjeong said:


> Sorry for the double post, but I heard that the Stax SR-007MK2 requires more power than other Stax to properly drive, due to it's impedance being 170kohms. If the Woo GES has a inadequately high resistor value, would the Stax SR-007MK2s be okay?



The bias supply resistor has nothing to do with the amount of power the amp supplies, it is simply a safety resistor.The bias supply simply sets the diaphragm at +580 volts.

The problem with the GES in terms of output power is the fact that it uses output plate resistors, whereas more modern designs use output constant current loads. Plate resistors burn up more than 50% of the output signal current as heat, whereas good constant current loads use practically none of the output signal current. Thus the output devices, solid-state or transistor, can drive the headphones much more efficiently, or, looked at from an alternative point of view, appear to be more than twice as powerful because they are not wasting the majority of the signal current in heating up the plate resistor. The tube output Stax amps suffer from the same shortcoming. For example, the SRM-T1/006 series is specified as having a maximum output of 300V RMS because it runs out of current at that point. Simply replacing the plate resistors with constant current loads, the maximum output increases to 400-450 VRMS and is voltage limited, similar to the modern Stax solid-state models, which do use constant current loads.

As far as the SR007 (both MkI and Mkii) needing more power, it is not so much a function of its impedance, which is not that much different from the SR009, as the fact that it has less output in the 2-4 kHz range which the ear uses to judge subjective loudness compared to most other Stax headphones. Therefore it needs more drive to sound as loud even though at 1 kHz it is about as efficient as most Stax headphones.


----------



## cjeong

That's a lot of science stuff I don't know. Thanks for helping though.


----------



## Rhamnetin

I would definitely try to snag a used KGSSHV or save up for the $2,300 KGSSHV that spritzer sells.


----------



## wuwhere

A Spritzer KGST.


----------



## joseph69

wuwhere said:


> A Spritzer KGST.


+1


----------



## JimL11

cjeong said:


> That's a lot of science stuff I don't know. Thanks for helping though.



No worries. The main reason for learning that "science stuff" is that many manufacturers give technical information about their designs. In some cases it is real, in other cases it is BS. A basic understanding of science helps sort out reality from BS. When a manufacturer uses technical BS to sell his product, it should make one wary. When a manufacturer makes basic technical errors, it should make one wary. IMHO of course.


----------



## Rossliew

Rhamnetin said:


> I would definitely try to snag a used KGSSHV or save up for the $2,300 KGSSHV that spritzer sells.



I can vouch for the “cheap” kgsshv. Wonderful pairing with the 007s


----------



## CT007

JayKay47 said:


> My 300LE were a little hard sounding for the first 10 hours, now they are much better. @ahmedie  have you tried the 300LE with the L700 pads?


Which energizer are you using the L300LE with? Is it ok on the SRM-252s?


----------



## CT007

ahmedie said:


> Ye I am using L700 pads ! The L500/limiter pads are have hard material with less leather compared with L700 which is very light and fluffy thicker and more leather, I am sure that L300limied will be so close to L700 after burn in, they are smoothing out eventually


Is the L300LE ok with the SRM-252s, do you know?


----------



## xantus

ahh stax.. how I missed you..

my srm1-mk2 died last september..
I took a while to deliberate whether it was worth sinking money into repairs or buying something that wasn't built 2 decades ago ..
then this week I happened upon an auction for an srm-Xh with a Golden Reference Low Voltage psu that was built last year....and even included a Lambda Spirit all for less than I originally bought my srm1 for 

only had a couple hours with it so far.. but the bliss is back!
the Spirit seemed rather etchy in the treble compared to my 404's...  I think i'll need to hunt up some different pads for the spirit..


----------



## Olschl

Could I get some quick advice please? I have a SRX MkIII/SRD-7 combo. The volume is a little lower on the left at times, occasionally there is a hum when no music is playing, and the SRD-7 is pretty ancient. I was thinking that something like a SRM-313 would be a better bet than having the SRD-7 rebuilt. (I have no experience with a soldering iron) Well, a SRM-313 has become available. My questions are:
a) would it be a significant sonic upgrade, beyond having R/L volume control?
b) Would I be better served spending the money on a pair of Oppo PM-3s?
My budget is restricted.


----------



## BenF (Jun 11, 2018)

Olschl said:


> Could I get some quick advice please? I have a SRX MkIII/SRD-7 combo. The volume is a little lower on the left at times, occasionally there is a hum when no music is playing, and the SRD-7 is pretty ancient. I was thinking that something like a SRM-313 would be a better bet than having the SRD-7 rebuilt. (I have no experience with a soldering iron) Well, a SRM-313 has become available. My questions are:
> a) would it be a significant sonic upgrade, beyond having R/L volume control?
> b) Would I be better served spending the money on a pair of Oppo PM-3s?
> My budget is restricted.



Is the channel imblalance in the headphone?
If yes, buy 003Mk2 for 50$ less than PM3 or L300 for 30$ more, and forget your troubles.
Didn't know SRD-7 is not Pro Bias, forget it.


PM3 is nowhere near electrostats anyway, don't waste your money.


----------



## Olschl

BenF said:


> Is the channel imblalance in the headphone?
> If yes, buy 003Mk2 for 50$ less than PM3 or L300 for 30$ more, and forget your troubles.
> Didn't know SRD-7 is not Pro Bias, forget it.
> 
> ...



Thanks. At least you answered one of my questions.
Would you know anything about the SRM-313 or any later model driver with normal bias?


----------



## BenF

Olschl said:


> Thanks. At least you answered one of my questions.
> Would you know anything about the SRM-313 or any later model driver with normal bias?



I only have Pro Bias amps.
If the imbalance is in the headphone, it makes no sense to invest in an amplifier.
Better start saving for a Pro Bias set.


----------



## padam

CT007 said:


> Is the L300LE ok with the SRM-252s, do you know?



It should be fine if you listen at normal volumes. (It is also possible to upgrade the power supply)


----------



## CT007

padam said:


> It should be fine if you listen at normal volumes. (It is also possible to upgrade the power supply)


It sounded rather harsh to me, out of my Mimby :\ Much better bass, and detail, but a much less smooth sound.


----------



## AudioThief

What are the current views on SR-L300LE vs SR-L500 ? I am thinking of getting a lambda to accompany my 007s.


----------



## natto lover

AudioThief said:


> What are the current views on SR-L300LE vs SR-L500 ? I am thinking of getting a lambda to accompany my 007s.


I had both the L300 LE and 007 and don't really think it's worth getting. Pretty similar sound signature, but more nasally, grainy, and worse in imaging. Doesn't extend as deep either so acoustics sound off, although EQ might be an option. For what it's worth it does have a wider soundstage


----------



## AudioThief

natto lover said:


> I had both the L300 LE and 007 and don't really think it's worth getting. Pretty similar sound signature, but more nasally, grainy, and worse in imaging. Doesn't extend as deep either so acoustics sound off, although EQ might be an option. For what it's worth it does have a wider soundstage



Thanks for the reply

Comparing my old L300 standard edt with my current 007 mk1, the imaging and overall soundstage is much more impressive on the 007, perhaps a bit more width but lack of depth in the l300. What I miss from my L300 is that I felt it had a tad bit more "fun sounding" sound signature. The 007 is very true to the source material and clearly much more resolving, but there is something from the lambda series I am missing. Not even sure exactly what, I just remember the L300 sounded very fun.


----------



## padam

AudioThief said:


> Comparing my old L300 standard edt with my current 007 mk1, the imaging and overall soundstage is much more impressive on the 007, perhaps a bit more width but lack of depth in the l300. What I miss from my L300 is that I felt it had a tad bit more "fun sounding" sound signature. The 007 is very true to the source material and clearly much more resolving, but there is something from the lambda series I am missing. Not even sure exactly what, I just remember the L300 sounded very fun.



Really depends on the kind of music one listens to.

If it is more of that minimally-miked classical or jazz, the Lambdas do a much better job in the soundstage presentation (there are certain characteristics of microphones which are 'kept' better presented by the Lambdas, while the SR-007 just washes these attributes away and puts instruments in places where they don't belong, or splits a chorus left and right when it shouldn't happen. Might be more layered but also less realistic (although one could argue that headphone soundstaging is always artificial). Sometimes this is true for multichannel recordings, depending on how it was mixed together. I guess it is probably down to the oval-shaped drivers being superior in some way to the circular ones.

Also the SR-007 has a more laid-back character (depends on the version but more or less true to all of them), that works very well on certain music and less so on others. The Lambdas are generally more forward.


So my answer is yes, although I haven't heard the latest ones yet, I've read that while it is available, the L300 Limited is preferred to the L500 (and the L700 is preferred to the L300 Limited).


----------



## oktapod

I can only comment on the 007mk1 compared to L700.  The 007mk1 is better than the L700 in every way, to my ears, although the caveat is that being harder to drive, they ask more of the amps and so it took changing from my 006T to a Mjolnir KGSSHV to really show what the 007s can do.  On the 006T they sound quite a bit different, with the 007s still being better overall, but the L700 had tighter (if leaner) bass.  

Both exceptionally good headphones, but I have no regrets whatsoever in moving from L700/006T to 007mk1:KGSSHV.  Except that I didn’t go for the 007 first time round


----------



## Ojisan

padam said:


> Really depends on the kind of music one listens to.
> 
> If it is more of that minimally-miked classical or jazz, the Lambdas do a much better job in the soundstage presentation (there are certain characteristics of microphones which are 'kept' better presented by the Lambdas, while the SR-007 just washes these attributes away and puts instruments in places where they don't belong, or splits a chorus left and right when it shouldn't happen. Might be more layered but also less realistic (although one could argue that headphone soundstaging is always artificial). Sometimes this is true for multichannel recordings, depending on how it was mixed together. I guess it is probably down to the oval-shaped drivers being superior in some way to the circular ones.
> <snip>



Isn’t this left/right split and placement more of a function of the recording itself rather than the headphone? Unless there is an inherent (or temporal) difference in L/R balance or phase, it seems strange that you would observe this. Am I missing some nuance here?


----------



## padam

Ojisan said:


> Isn’t this left/right split and placement more of a function of the recording itself rather than the headphone? Unless there is an inherent (or temporal) difference in L/R balance or phase, it seems strange that you would observe this. Am I missing some nuance here?



It was A-B tested, so I don' think so and I don't think it has much to do with phasing.

As I wrote it depends on the recording (and nowadays these types of recording are not very common), but in my opinion, the headphone part has more to do with how the transducers are shaped (in this case oval versus circular) and how they are angled.
There are other reviews which I think observe this, such as:

https://www.headfonia.com/stax-omega2-mk2-review/


----------



## AudioThief

padam said:


> Really depends on the kind of music one listens to.
> 
> If it is more of that minimally-miked classical or jazz, the Lambdas do a much better job in the soundstage presentation (there are certain characteristics of microphones which are 'kept' better presented by the Lambdas, while the SR-007 just washes these attributes away and puts instruments in places where they don't belong, or splits a chorus left and right when it shouldn't happen. Might be more layered but also less realistic (although one could argue that headphone soundstaging is always artificial). Sometimes this is true for multichannel recordings, depending on how it was mixed together. I guess it is probably down to the oval-shaped drivers being superior in some way to the circular ones.
> 
> ...




Thank you for the reply. And I think it is the more forward sound I miss from the lambdas. The L300 limited are half the price of the L700, and I really don't feel that I need to spend 1200$ on the L700, I am overall extremely happy with the 007, so I think that if the L300 LTD are a decent step up from the regular L300 I would definitely be looking at getting them.


----------



## padam

AudioThief said:


> Thank you for the reply. And I think it is the more forward sound I miss from the lambdas. The L300 limited are half the price of the L700, and I really don't feel that I need to spend 1200$ on the L700, I am overall extremely happy with the 007, so I think that if the L300 LTD are a decent step up from the regular L300 I would definitely be looking at getting them.



It is a fairly easy answer anyway since in the absolute worst case you are going to just resell it with minimal or no loss at all, since it is limited production. And as an SR-007 owner you could probably afford a used Lambda (or two)

Going in the other way is more of a question of debate, since it can be a big jump, especially if the amp needs to be upgraded as well. And even something cheaper like an SR-X Mk3 can provide a lot of those things that make electrostatics great in the first place (if the comfort is fine)

I would say though that the unmodded 727II is pretty much a "hit or miss" type of sound, it behaves much more like a solid-state amp should be after it's been modified.
So if you hate the L300LE with the 727II it may not necessarily be the fault of the headphones (but again, it could be the other way round, after all, everything is subjective).


----------



## staticdynamo

I got my SRM-D10 today.


----------



## Whitigir

Wow nice! So has 009s been shipping out yet ?


----------



## staticdynamo

Whitigir said:


> Wow nice! So has 009s been shipping out yet ?


Yes, at least SRM-D10 and 009s were sent on the same day (=yesterday) in Japan.


----------



## buzzlulu

Please give us some feedback on the D10 and what you are using to feed it (iPhone, DAC etc.)

009S's are shipping here in the States


----------



## Whitigir

buzzlulu said:


> Please give us some feedback on the D10 and what you are using to feed it (iPhone, DAC etc.)
> 
> 009S's are shipping here in the States


Really ? Can you give more details ?  Ant wait to get it shipped (notification)


----------



## staticdynamo

buzzlulu said:


> Please give us some feedback on the D10 and what you are using to feed it (iPhone, DAC etc.)
> 
> 009S's are shipping here in the States


I used SRM-D10 with SR-L700. My DAP is A&ultima SP1000CP, and I used USB input.
The DAC chip in SRM-D10 is ESS ES9018. With SP1000's 2V output, the volume is 
very loud at 12 o'clock. The sound is clear and S/N is pretty good. And very good for
long listening.


----------



## buzzlulu

Staticdynamo
Nice looking setup and thanks for the initial feedback.  It will be interesting to see how it sounds with an iPhone feeding it Tidal streams or internally stored FLAC files.

As for DAP's I have a Sony WM1Z.  On the D10 it looks as though there is a switch which chooses between USB and 3.5mm line input so I guess when set to 3.5 input the DAC section is not engaged and only the estat amplifier portion is functioning?  

The Sony 1Z can use a dongle to output the digital files - I guess one needs to make an an analysis which DAC section is better - the Sony or the Stax - and feed accordingly.  I wonder how the internal DAC section of the Stax compares to small things like Mojo etc?


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 16, 2018)

buzzlulu said:


> Staticdynamo
> Nice looking setup and thanks for the initial feedback.  It will be interesting to see how it sounds with an iPhone feeding it Tidal streams or internally stored FLAC files.
> 
> As for DAP's I have a Sony WM1Z.  On the D10 it looks as though there is a switch which chooses between USB and 3.5mm line input so I guess when set to 3.5 input the DAC section is not engaged and only the estat amplifier portion is functioning?
> ...



That would be very interesting, but I can tell you that Wm1Z as an analog source into my T2+009 is very very hard to beat for (portable device).  I compared Opus 2, opus 3, dx-200 with various amp-modules.  The 1Z has the level of organic timbres so much more than any of those


----------



## staticdynamo

buzzlulu 
Thanks for good idea. I already tried analogue input and it was also good. I will try SRM-D10's analogue
input through my Mojo or HUGO2 using SP1000.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Me waiting for SR-009S impressions to be posted:


----------



## BenF

staticdynamo said:


> I used SRM-D10 with SR-L700. My DAP is A&ultima SP1000CP, and I used USB input.
> The DAC chip in SRM-D10 is ESS ES9018*. With SP1000's 2V output, the volume is
> very loud at 12 o'clock*. The sound is clear and S/N is pretty good. And very good for
> long listening.


Why would level of SP1000's output matter if you used USB?


----------



## Whitigir

BenF said:


> Why would level of SP1000's output matter if you used USB?


Because it is a fun specification to list on paper ? 

I am joking, but I think he meant that he tried analog input from Sp1000, and with 2Vrms, it gets very loud with the D10 ? I could be wrong


----------



## staticdynamo

BenF said:


> Why would level of SP1000's output matter if you used USB?[/QU
> Sorry,  it was about analogue output level .  Using USB, output level does not matter.


----------



## purk

I may need to get the D10 before the 009S.  I always want to take my SR009 to work!


----------



## staticdynamo

Another good news about SRM-D10. It was recognized by Windows 10 Pro (64bit) as audio device without driver.
Only connecting USB cable and power-on.


----------



## purk

If the D10 is any where close to the 323S then we may have the winner.  I doubt that though


----------



## BenF

staticdynamo said:


> Another good news about SRM-D10. It was recognized by Windows 10 Pro (64bit) as audio device without driver.
> Only connecting USB cable and power-on.


Can D10 be powered by USB, or does it need AC adapter?


----------



## staticdynamo

BenF said:


> Can D10 be powered by USB, or does it need AC adapter?


D10 needs AC adapter, which is included in D10 box. USB cable is for signal, not for charge.


----------



## purk

How's the battery life on the D-10.  Can u charge and listen simultaneously?


----------



## staticdynamo

purk said:


> How's the battery life on the D-10.  Can u charge and listen simultaneously?



Yes, I can charge D-10 and listen to the music at the same time. The battery life of D-10 is said to be 3.5 hours (with DAC operate) and 4.5 hours (line input)
　and about real battery life, I'm testing now.


----------



## JimL11

purk said:


> If the D10 is any where close to the 323S then we may have the winner.  I doubt that though



I'm guessing that it won't have anywhere near the drive current capability of the 323S, because otherwise it would likely burn your hand or anything else it touched.


----------



## padam

JimL11 said:


> I'm guessing that it won't have anywhere near the drive current capability of the 323S, because otherwise it would likely burn your hand or anything else it touched.



Even the upcoming SRM-D50 desktop amp/DAC is probably more like a 252S, so this should be lower than that.


----------



## buzzlulu

I have seen pictures and speculation about the SRM-D50 over the past two years.  Is this scheduled to be released or is it still vaporware?


----------



## Whitigir

buzzlulu said:


> I have seen pictures and speculation about the SRM-D50 over the past two years.  Is this scheduled to be released or is it still vaporware?


Released/shipped, and is made in China


----------



## BenF

Whitigir said:


> Released/shipped, and is made in China


Released?
Where is it available?
What are the specifications?


----------



## buzzlulu

BenF said:


> Released?
> Where is it available?
> What are the specifications?



Agreed - Whitigir  - I think you are mistaken.
I do not see the D50 anywhere - not even on the Stax website


----------



## Whitigir

My bad, the D10! Lol


----------



## Contrails

Anyone using the L700 with SRM-006TS amp? The 007 amp is out of my price range.


----------



## Ronsanut

I am using the L700's with the 353X Energizer.  My string is Schiit Gungnir Multibit -> Schiit Mjolinir (using tubes) -> STAX 353X -> L700.   Just amazing...


----------



## padam

Apart from 2 tubes per channel on the 007t resulting in a very slight increase in power, there is very little difference between that and the 006t.


----------



## Contrails

Cheers for the reply. Will go and audition some stax L700 tomorrow.


----------



## staticdynamo (Jun 20, 2018)

SRM-006tS is rather gentle and somewhat like old stax tube amp. SRM-007tA has more energy in high.I tried both of  them with my SR-L700.
Sound characters are different. So one should try oneself.


----------



## Contrails

And 353x would be a better match then?


----------



## padam

Both are good, some think that the 353x (or 323S without XLR input) is Stax's best sounding amp in production (in stock from, the 727 can be modified)
It is faster, better controlled, more neutral, the 006t is sweeter, more airy with a slight bass bloom, you could get used to either one.


----------



## Contrails

Thanks Padam.  006t sounds like my cup of tea. I would rather buy locally from a shop so I dont have to worry about Warranty issues.


----------



## staticdynamo (Jun 20, 2018)

I didn't listened to 353X with my SR-L700. At an event, I listened to SR-L300 Limited with SRM-353x BK.
They were very good pair. The sound was pretty good. So I think driving SR-L700, both SRM-006tA
and 353x are good choice. So one should listen and decide oneself.
Only one thing in mind. SRM-006tS and SRM-007tA are different. So not to regret, try oneself Not listening to others so much, including me.


----------



## FLguy

padam said:


> Apart from 2 tubes per channel on the 007t resulting in a very slight increase in power, there is very little difference between that and the 006t.


For what it's worth, the last paragraph of this post from JimL may be of interest. 

"The 006 is basically the T1 with currently available transistors, the 007 is basically the T1 with double the number of output tubes (but only 40% more standing current), and the 600 [006?] is basically the T1 with ECC99 output tubes running at about 10% higher standing current [than the T1]. ..."​
Having said that, I haven't seen or heard anyone suggest that the L700 needs the extra power beyond the 353x or 006t. So the choice may come down to preferences for sound signature as others have suggested.

Cheers


----------



## Magol79

Contrails said:


> Anyone using the L700 with SRM-006TS amp? The 007 amp is out of my price range.


I auditioned the L700 with three different Stax amps, the 353X, 006ts and 007tII. Personally I prefer the tube sound over solid state amps, so I liked the 006 and 007 better than the 353X. Now I think the 006ts does just fine with the L700, I couldn't really tell much difference between the two tube amps when driving the L700. I was set on the 006ts+L700 combo, but ended up with the 007tII because I got a great second hand deal on the L700+007tII.


----------



## GarageBoy

Is the octave 2 more similar in sound to the 353x, or is it it's own thing?


----------



## AudioThief

What sort of DACs are you guys pairing with your stax earspeakers?

My current setup is:

Tidal/Roon FLAC/MQA ----> Modi Multibit -----> 727II ---> 007 mk1

I was shocked at the increased fidelity going to bitperfect streaming and FLAC only listening, so I am starting to consider upgrading my DAC as well. I think the modi multibit sounds great, but many people view it as an "entry level" dac. If there is significant improvements to be found, I want it. Perhaps something that can deliver MQA quality perfectly would be a consideration?

The most important part for me is that it keeps the spirit of my 007s though. Which to me is, effortless transparancy with zero fatigue.


----------



## VRacer-111

AudioThief said:


> What sort of DACs are you guys pairing with your stax earspeakers?
> 
> My current setup is:
> 
> ...



I'd highly consider something like the RME ADI-2 DAC.... its USB is outstanding and the sound is WAY better with Blu-ray pure audio discs than my Oppo BDP93, even though the ADI-2 can only play it @ 16bit/44.1kHz versus the 24bit/96k it should be (using digital coax because no HDMI input available)... much fuller/richer, and clean, with BLACK background...the OPPO really sounds BAD compared to it. DVD-A media plays at 24bit/96kHz through it from the Oppo though, so I also assume it will at the max 24bit/192kHz as well. RME ADI-2 DAC will do up to 32bit/768kHz  / DSD256 over USB...

Plus the built in 5 band PEQ, crossfeed, tone control knobs, balance adjustment, and fully adjustable/customizeable feature set makes it completely outstanding DAC...and add to that the amp section which is great as well and you have an increfible DAC/amp with unheard of features and custimization for $1k...All in one rig DAC solution that can cover non-Electrostats as well with the headphone and separate dedicated IEM jack...

I just downloaded the Boston 'Third Stage' album from HDtracks in 24bit/96kHz FLAC late last night, but didn't listen to it on my STAX rig, was on my bedroom TH-X00PH centered rig. Very nice sounding, but don't have CD album to compare it with to see what difference there is. Want to listen to it tonight on my STAX rig.


----------



## buzzlulu

padam said:


> Both are good, some think that the 353x (or 323S without XLR input) is Stax's best sounding amp in production (in stock from, the 727 can be modified)
> It is faster, better controlled, more neutral.



I hope you are right about the 353!  As a Stax newbie I started with a L300LE and 353XBK.  I will let you know tomorrow how the 353XBK fares with the 009S  as my plans are to use it for the time being until I am ready to pull the trigger on a better amplifier.

One advantage I will have running a 009S/353XBK is that my sources are class leading.  Coming from 2 channel I subscribe to a different philosophy than most on Headfi.  The largest part of ones budget should be spent on the source and not the headphone or amplifier - IMHO.


----------



## padam

buzzlulu said:


> The largest part of ones budget should be spent on the source and not the headphone or amplifier - IMHO.



That's probably not true anymore with the rise of "cheap" (sub 2000$) high-end DACs, like the Holo Audio Spring (especially if we are talking about an SR-009S). The amp also makes a noticeable difference with the Omega series (but probably more so with the SR-007s).


----------



## buzzlulu

padam said:


> That's probably not true anymore with the rise of "cheap" (sub 2000$) high-end DACs, like the Holo Audio Spring (especially if we are talking about an SR-009S). The amp also makes a noticeable difference with the Omega series (but probably more so with the SR-007s).




I actually believe source first still holds true today.  In two channel there are DAC's ranging from $1k-$50k.   Turntables from $1k-$50K.  In a resolving system it is easily possible to discern the differences.
In my world of two channel budget is ALWAYS allocated source first.  It is useless to spend larger dollars on amplifiers or speakers and pair them with a cheaper not as resolving source.  The sources job is to get ALL the information off of the storage medium - digital or vinyl.  No use in amplifying or playing through TOTL speakers if the source has left some of the music on the disc.  The DAC's and turntables at the lower end of the spectrum are simply less resolving than better ones.  Simply put you will not be hearing ALL of the music.  To use a popular example on Headfi a Dave is a bit better than a Mojo - no?

This is not to say that serious advances have not been made at lower price points as today it is possible to get AMAZING performance from reasonably priced sources (just witness a Chord Mojo).  People are not stupid however and I don't think many like to throw their money away.  When they buy TOTL Rega or Linn Turntables, and digital sources from Linn, Naim, dCS etc. it is very easy to hear the differences.  Listen to an entry level player and then listen to a Chord Dave, Naim ND555, a Linn Klimax DS etc. (yes I have an affinity for British hi-fi!) 

Then do an experiment.  Listen to a $2k streamer through some $6K speakers.  Then listen to a $6k streamer through some $2k speakers.  The second system with the better source will win every time.  I would speculate that a Hugo2 feeding a L300 will sound better than an iPhone w/FLAC feeding a L700.   No matter how hard it tries the iPhone will always be leaving music on the table - it is simply not capable of extracting and playing everything that the Hugo2 can.  Dont even get me started about people with TOTL headphones listening to MP3's instead of FLAC's.  Same philosophy - the FLAC will ALWAYS around better.  Source first!

But then again to each his own.  People will do as they see fit.
Enough from the peanut gallery - time to listen to some music.


----------



## oneguy (Jun 20, 2018)

I agree up to a point. The part I would argue is where diminishing returns start to kick in. Take the example of a $5k source and $5k speakers vs $9k source and $1k speakers. I would argue that there are diminishing return bumping up from the $5k to $9k source that would point to upgrading the speakers as being a better use of the $4 difference instead.

Now this was an extreme example using numbers that added up to 10 to make it easy. I think in the head-fi community that diminishing returns “bend in the graph” occurs at the $2k range with DACs like the Yggy and Spring KTE. Anything beyond that and it is highly likely that it’s more beneficial to throw money at rest of the chain instead.


----------



## padam (Jun 20, 2018)

I did listen to various sources, including the Linn DS and they are very nice but not necessarily better (even though technically, you could say it has a bit more detail or a bigger soundstage), just different.

It is up to the listener which one he or she prefers and prices don't necessarily determine performance.

That's why I think that 2k$ vs 6k$ or other price-based comparison can be a wrong example especially with speakers, where the acoustics and placement are very important as the choices are practically endless.


----------



## buzzlulu

oneguy said:


> I agree up to a point. The part I would argue is where diminishing returns start to kick in.



Unfortunately this is true in two channel.  The dollar jump for a 10 increment in performance is frequently astronomical.  I'm curious to see what the 009S at $4350 tell me vs. my L300LE at $700.

I also have a Utopia here which I listen to through a Moon430HA.  Fair comparison with the Stax setup as both are fed by my Linn source.
If I could only have one setup I think the L300LE/353XBK at $1700 vs. the Utopia/Moon430HA at $7500 is a no brainier.  The Stax setup costs less then one third and I find myself using it more frequently.


----------



## mulveling (Jun 20, 2018)

I feel that Stax necessitates "amplifier first", especially the Omegas. Sure you can find plenty of bad sounding sources that will hold a Stax back - but you can also find $2K (and even less) digital sources today that are excellent. I prefer vinyl to digital, and have literally 40x more into my analog gear than digital (most of it in the 'table dedicated to the speaker rig). But seriously, I believe amp first for Stax. It doesn't have to be hard or expensive to get a great sounding source these days; it's still hard/expensive to get a great Stax amp, unfortunately.

I always took issue with the "garbage in, garbage out" saying. Of course there's truth to that, but I feel the "weakest link" analog is more relevant to an audio chain.


----------



## bearwarrior

mulveling said:


> I feel that Stax necessitates "amplifier first", especially the Omegas. Sure you can find plenty of bad sounding sources that will hold a Stax back - but you can also find $2K (and even less) digital sources today that are excellent. I prefer vinyl to digital, and have literally 40x more into my analog gear than digital (most of it in the 'table dedicated to the speaker rig). But seriously, I believe amp first for Stax. It doesn't have to be hard or expensive to get a great sounding source these days; it's still hard/expensive to get a great Stax amp, unfortunately.
> 
> I always took issue with the "garbage in, garbage out" saying. Of course there's truth to that, but I feel the "weakest link" analog is more relevant to an audio chain.



100% with you. Amp first with Stax.


----------



## buzzlulu

padam said:


> That's why I think that 2k$ vs 6k$ or other price-based comparison can be a wrong example especially with speakers, where the acoustics and placement are very important as the choices are practically endless.



Acoustics and placement with speakers - boy do you have that right.

I see you run a Lavry.  YEARS AGO - before Chord were even on the map with the original Hugo - the Lavry was the first non Naim source which many on our Naim forum jumped at.  It was all the rage for Naimee's.  Many think that it was the Lavry which kicked Naim UK in the pants and got them to develop and introduce their first stand alone DAC.  Too many of their customers were ditching CD players and getting the first Lavry's


----------



## Contrails

SRM-1TS or SR006t amp for L700?


----------



## padam (Jun 20, 2018)

Just dug this out a few days ago: Rotel + Woo versus DIY T2

While I do hear differences between amps, I found the individual character of the headphones way stronger. Right now I wish that big price gap between Stax amps (SRM-T8000 excluded) an a KGSSHV Carbon would be filled (I didn't like the normal KGSSHV).
I am very intrigued by the SRX Plus, I extensively listened to the "classic" version (DIY equivalent to the Woo GES) and enjoyed it.

In short, each to his own on which component should cost the most - but maybe music first? 



Contrails said:


> SRM-1TS or SR006t amp for L700?



They are very similar except that the older ones usually use better-sounding Japanese tubes and different parts (that may benefit from a refurbishment since they are getting old now and there are other mods which can take it to the next level like this one).

So if you get a good deal on either one you can't really go wrong.


----------



## Whitigir

Amp is first with Stax, and that is because electro static does not have any fixed values Driving mechanism physically.  Unlike dynamic designs which has a magnetic and a voice-coil.  The magnetic field and it strength is fixed.  

There are huge differences in between amps for Stax.  Next up would be Sources, and then DAC


----------



## buzzlulu

bearwarrior said:


> 100% with you. Amp first with Stax.



Don't get me wrong - even though I am new to the Stax game I have come to the conclusion from reading that better amplifiers are key to estat performance.  My 353 will simply keep me in a holding pattern for now.  Over the last two months I bought a L300LE/353XBK and now a 009S.  I need a short break.

A Carbon ultimately awaits me though 

On the flip side the bottom line is that most Stax owners use Stax amps.   I gather that the average Stax retail customer who is not on Headfi (and let's face it - most people 2 channel, headphone etc. are not on forums) have not heard of KG amps.  Hell it is impossible to find, demo or buy them as they are only available from DIY'ers (Headamp is the closest to a "commercial" manufacturer with the BHSE).  So ultimately Stax as an ongoing entity needs for their headphones to "perform" with their own amplifiers - otherwise they would not sell.  From the look of it - it appears they have no problem selling all they can manufacture.  So their "underperforming" amplifiers must be doing something right?


----------



## buzzlulu

padam said:


> In short, each to his own on which component should cost the most - but maybe music first?



That is ALWAYS true - as my 7000 LP's and 3000 CD's on the shelf will attest 
I'm an older guy so I like to own my music.  I'll let my college kids stream!

(although my Tidal subscription has saved me a lot of money by not buying so much any more - a great way to demo first)


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 20, 2018)

padam said:


> Just dug this out a few days ago: Rotel + Woo versus DIY T2
> 
> While I do hear differences between amps, I found the individual character of the headphones way stronger. Right now I wish that big price gap between Stax amps (SRM-T8000 excluded) an a KGSSHV Carbon would be filled (I didn't like the normal KGSSHV).
> I am very intrigued by the SRX Plus, I extensively listened to the "classic" version (DIY equivalent to the Woo GES) and enjoyed it.
> ...



That comparison isn’t correct.  For example, what was the sources ? And what were the tubes ? T2 has huge differences with Mullard NOS and Phillips NOS.  Even grounded Grid has huge differences with NOS tubes.  Then I thought the T2+009 that I have is maxed out....no, I was wrong.  I previously used WM1Z, Dock cradle, LKS-004.  Then I compared LKS004 to R2R7....not much differences, until I swapped out my WM1Z into a built PC for source components.  The differences were vast and crazy, the R2R7 sounds so much more organic and alive where as LKS004 isn’t.

The point is that superbly high end components can only scale as much as what it was connected to.  T2 and Wee May perform similar from a cheap source and cheap tubes, but give it an expensive source and observe it for yourself

There is 0 fix that comes from 1 single device.  Every pieces are just as important, and more than often, people compare, reviews without a good sources, and wonder why their gears fall flat on it face


----------



## padam

Whitigir said:


> That comparison isn’t correct.


Well, that's the sort of reaction I expected  The source is of course written in that post. And I didn't link it because I took that for granted.
I linked it to prove a point about just make your own conclusions, don't be afraid to experiment.
And you don't necessarily need to spend all you can to have a system that you can enjoy listening to music.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Wait is the point of this hobby enjoyment or taking as far as you can?!

Lol


----------



## 336881

buzzlulu said:


> I actually believe source first still holds true today.  In two channel there are DAC's ranging from $1k-$50k.   Turntables from $1k-$50K.  In a resolving system it is easily possible to discern the differences.
> In my world of two channel budget is ALWAYS allocated source first.  It is useless to spend larger dollars on amplifiers or speakers and pair them with a cheaper not as resolving source.  The sources job is to get ALL the information off of the storage medium - digital or vinyl.  No use in amplifying or playing through TOTL speakers if the source has left some of the music on the disc.  The DAC's and turntables at the lower end of the spectrum are simply less resolving than better ones.  Simply put you will not be hearing ALL of the music.  To use a popular example on Headfi a Dave is a bit better than a Mojo - no?
> 
> This is not to say that serious advances have not been made at lower price points as today it is possible to get AMAZING performance from reasonably priced sources (just witness a Chord Mojo).  People are not stupid however and I don't think many like to throw their money away.  When they buy TOTL Rega or Linn Turntables, and digital sources from Linn, Naim, dCS etc. it is very easy to hear the differences.  Listen to an entry level player and then listen to a Chord Dave, Naim ND555, a Linn Klimax DS etc. (yes I have an affinity for British hi-fi!)
> ...



I have done your $2k-$6k experiment with several streams and speaks. If the pre is quality then speakers zero doubt. If the pre is not quality or it is an integrated then it depends. 

Where everyone messes up imo on 2 channel is the pre is an afterthought or it is an integrated. I have twice as much invested in my C-2301 than my SE-A100. I would not be surprised at all if 80% of hifi enthusiasts are using an integrated. Some integrated's are good, Sansui in particular, but if you can go pre and power man it really pays off. Going from pre and power to mono's though really did not impress me so much though.

As you said though to each their own.


----------



## VandyMan

SeaWo|f said:


> Wait is the point of this hobby enjoyment or taking as far as you can?!
> 
> Lol



The point is taking your enjoyment as far as you can.


----------



## buzzlulu

SeaWo|f said:


> Wait is the point of this hobby enjoyment or taking as far as you can?!
> 
> Lol


 
The point, for me, is always THE MUSIC


----------



## powertoold (Jun 20, 2018)

You guys always forget the most important part of the system: YOU!

I find that the same music sounds "different"/"better"/"worse" depending on the time of day/my mood/the temperature/what happened during the day/what I ate/etc.

It's very difficult to take YOU out of the equation when doing comparisons. No one ever talks about this, and I don't know why.


----------



## mulveling (Jun 20, 2018)

powertoold said:


> You guys always forget the most important part of the system: YOU!
> It's very difficult to take YOU out of the equation when doing comparisons. No one ever talks about this, and I don't know why.


Because this is a forum of guys talking about what headphone gear they like, rather than a scientific journal. The "IMO" disclaimers are implied in everything; it doesn't need to be repeated to death. Over time, build a collection of members/posters whose perspective generally gels with your experience and goals. Filter the noise of folks you need to, and ignore the worst offenders. You'll get a lot more out of this place, and have fun too.

Now with amp circuitry & build quality analysis, there are some real experts (very few though) and that's were things cross over from opinion towards hard facts. Choose carefully whom you heed there. Around here, JimL is a great start for that.


----------



## Contrails (Jun 20, 2018)

So,I just auditioned the L700 with the 353X amp.  My regular headphones are the HD800S.

Details: HD800S places every detail upfront for you to analyse.  Whereas the L700 places some at the background.  They are there but not as prominent.

Soundstage: L700 has very good soundstage, width and depth.  Not as wide as the HD800S but good enough.  Lacks the height of the HD800S.

Imaging: L700 has good imaging from the songs I heard on it but I didn't listened to any Orchestra so I couldn't evaluate this.  HD800S imaging is sublime in this regard.  I could listen to the Star Wars soundtracks all night long on the HD800S.  But one thing I did notice - the vocals sound like they are a little distant on the HD800S but the instruments are a little closer to you in the L & R image, this kinda feels a little unnatural.  Whereas, the L700 the vocals are closer and it produces a more realistic presentation.

Bass: More mid-bass impact on the L700, details are almost the same but more tight on the L700. Drums definitely sound more real on the L700.  That little extra impact makes a big difference. Sub-bass is marginally better on the L700.

Mids: Holy crap! The music just flows, beautiful sounding mids coupled with the slightly better and more impactful bass makes me think that I was listening to an uber HD650.  The instruments sound like they do in real life.  Vocals are on another level.   I think the HD800S needs a very very good DAC and amp to make it shine but for lot less money, I would rather get the L700.  The L700 in the store was connected to a Hegel HD25.  Not as natural and clean sounding as a Holo Spring DAC Lvl3 connect via Su-1 USB converter.  Plus, the store was playing the songs via winamp and the songs were stored on a Hard drive.

Treble - same as above.

Speed - Stax.  Just wow.  Listening to the HD800S after listening to the Stax is quite the revelation.  I never considered the HD800S slow until I heard the Stax.

Clarity - Stax, again what can I say.  The HD800S sounds a little muffled/hazzy in comparison.

Comfort - HD800S wins.  The L700 had more clamping force, hopefully this will reduce with wear.

Build - HD800S wins this, the L700 feels a little cheap in comparison.  Getting the HD800S out of the box and putting it on feels like an occasion.  Till you start listening to them and wish they sounded like the L700.  I did like the retro looks of the L700.  Very cool.

Yep I am definitely pulling the trigger on the L700.  If I was to summarise it, when you put the HD800S on, you keep wanting to analyse the music.  When you put the L700 on, you get lost in the music. 

I am trying to get hold of a SRM-1/mk2 amp to pair them with.  The store has invited me to listen to the Woo 3ES amp which should be arriving next week.

I have heard the He1 and I am gonna say this, the L700 is nowhere close to the He1.  The He1 is something else. On a completely different level.  Yes, I spent considerable time with the He1 at another local store.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Whitigir said:


> That comparison isn’t correct.  For example, what was the sources ? And what were the tubes ? T2 has huge differences with Mullard NOS and Phillips NOS.  Even grounded Grid has huge differences with NOS tubes.  Then I thought the T2+009 that I have is maxed out....no, I was wrong.  I previously used WM1Z, Dock cradle, LKS-004.  Then I compared LKS004 to R2R7....not much differences, until I swapped out my WM1Z into a built PC for source components.  The differences were vast and crazy, the R2R7 sounds so much more organic and alive where as LKS004 isn’t.
> 
> The point is that superbly high end components can only scale as much as what it was connected to.  T2 and Wee May perform similar from a cheap source and cheap tubes, but give it an expensive source and observe it for yourself
> 
> There is 0 fix that comes from 1 single device.  Every pieces are just as important, and more than often, people compare, reviews without a good sources, and wonder why their gears fall flat on it face


LOL 
I was so certain you'll jump on it, as you jump on everything that moderates your margin's assumption of x1000 between DIY-T2 and everything else, even the best Carbon out there 

Ali


----------



## Pahani

buzzlulu said:


> I actually believe source first still holds true today.  In two channel there are DAC's ranging from $1k-$50k.   Turntables from $1k-$50K.  In a resolving system it is easily possible to discern the differences.
> In my world of two channel budget is ALWAYS allocated source first.  It is useless to spend larger dollars on amplifiers or speakers and pair them with a cheaper not as resolving source.  The sources job is to get ALL the information off of the storage medium - digital or vinyl.  No use in amplifying or playing through TOTL speakers if the source has left some of the music on the disc.  The DAC's and turntables at the lower end of the spectrum are simply less resolving than better ones.  Simply put you will not be hearing ALL of the music.  To use a popular example on Headfi a Dave is a bit better than a Mojo - no?
> 
> This is not to say that serious advances have not been made at lower price points as today it is possible to get AMAZING performance from reasonably priced sources (just witness a Chord Mojo).  People are not stupid however and I don't think many like to throw their money away.  When they buy TOTL Rega or Linn Turntables, and digital sources from Linn, Naim, dCS etc. it is very easy to hear the differences.  Listen to an entry level player and then listen to a Chord Dave, Naim ND555, a Linn Klimax DS etc. (yes I have an affinity for British hi-fi!)
> ...



I just got started in Home Theater myself (7.2.4), still a newbie. There's crazy Multi-ch guys, and there's crazy 2-ch guys. Completely different types of crazy, but equally bonkers LOL!

By far my largest investment so far has been into my dual subs, which rattle my whole house like the trunk of a beat-up Honda Civic >.< But good Lord, feeling ULF bass that 99% of the public won't know is even there is awesome......

The little I've gleaned about serious 2-ch setups boggles my mind o.0



padam said:


> Just dug this out a few days ago: Rotel + Woo versus DIY T2
> 
> While I do hear differences between amps, I found the individual character of the headphones way stronger. Right now I wish that big price gap between Stax amps (SRM-T8000 excluded) an a KGSSHV Carbon would be filled (I didn't like the normal KGSSHV).
> I am very intrigued by the SRX Plus, I extensively listened to the "classic" version (DIY equivalent to the Woo GES) and enjoyed it.
> ...



Only quoting this because I'm using a Rotel RMB-1075 to power my 4 Atmos speakers in my HT setup 

Just thought it was a nice coincidence in the discussion.


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 21, 2018)

Ali-Pacha said:


> LOL
> I was so certain you'll jump on it, as you jump on everything that moderates your margin's assumption of x1000 between DIY-T2 and everything else, even the best Carbon out there
> 
> Ali


*Just speaking from pure experiences, my friend, and I speak the truth not from assumptions*.  But different strokes for different folks.  If one say that he can not afford the T2, that is fine, but to say that the T2 sounds disappointing? LOL.....May as well say “my Beats by Dre Studio sound just as good as T2+009 ?”.  Not sure about the best Carbon, but T2 has always outperform the Carbon and Grounded Grid when fed by the same sources  Also, that X1000 is exaggerated as the differences between T2 VS Carbon can be heard within the first 3 seconds.  Anyways, don’t believe what I say, go find out for yourself.  I can’t recall the last time I done a hearings test or visiting an audiologist


----------



## Olschl

I am one of those 2 channel guys who prefer listening to "roomspeakers" and only use my earspeakers  about 20% of my listening time. I am powering my SRX MkIIIs (and SRD-40s which I still enjoy) with an SRD-7 which is ancient, Through an Audioengine N22 from the tape-out of a Primare I32. I have asked this question before and not really gotten much of a response. My hearing is not the same in both ears and I'd like to replace the SRD-7 with something that has balance control. Because my Stax are not my primary listening interface and because I am always trying to improve the sources - a new tonearm is next on the list - I don't want to spend more than I have to; but I'd like the best value for the money I do spend, I am thinking of a SRM-313, which is circa 1999 if I am not mistaken, or a SRM-1 ( I understand the MK2 is more desirable than the MK none). Either would eliminate the N22, which I hope would be a good thing. Objectively, the SRM-313 seems like the best choice, since they seem to go for a lot less than the SRM-1s and would be less likely to need a rebuild; but I sense that the SRM-1 Mk2 is held in much higher regard. I have no use for the Pro-only socket at this time; but it is my understanding that it is safe to use it for the electrets. Can anyone confirm statement AND has anyone had experience with the 313 vs the SRM-1 vs the Mk2? Is the SRM-1 MK2 really worth the extra $500 - $1,000? Would it need a refurb? I there a better option I am unaware of? I really don't have much problem with the sound quality I am getting now. It blows away my dynamics; it's just these old ear drums.


----------



## padam (Jun 21, 2018)

If you are patient enough, you can find an SRM-T1 for a reasonable price, it sounds great with the SR-X Mk3, SRM-1 Mk2 is also fine for about half as much money. I also like the SRA-3S, it's tiny and it actually has a good sounding phono pre-amp built-in, it is harder to find and of course the older unit you get, the more likely they need a service.
You can plug an electret into any plug, since they only need the signal and not the bias voltage


----------



## Olschl

Thanks for the reply, Padam. I guess that's a not recommended for the SRM-313. I'll research the SRA-3S.


----------



## padam

I found it to be too cold (and the SR-X Mk3 is already not as smooth as say, an SR-Lambda, so may not be the best pairing) but I am sure there are others who think it's fine.
The SRM-1 Mk2 is less like that (and the SRM-323S/353X is even less so, more neutral, although more money and of course no normal bias anymore)


----------



## AudioThief

VRacer-111 said:


> I'd highly consider something like the RME ADI-2 DAC.... its USB is outstanding and the sound is WAY better with Blu-ray pure audio discs than my Oppo BDP93, even though the ADI-2 can only play it @ 16bit/44.1kHz versus the 24bit/96k it should be (using digital coax because no HDMI input available)... much fuller/richer, and clean, with BLACK background...the OPPO really sounds BAD compared to it. DVD-A media plays at 24bit/96kHz through it from the Oppo though, so I also assume it will at the max 24bit/192kHz as well. RME ADI-2 DAC will do up to 32bit/768kHz  / DSD256 over USB...
> 
> Plus the built in 5 band PEQ, crossfeed, tone control knobs, balance adjustment, and fully adjustable/customizeable feature set makes it completely outstanding DAC...and add to that the amp section which is great as well and you have an increfible DAC/amp with unheard of features and custimization for $1k...All in one rig DAC solution that can cover non-Electrostats as well with the headphone and separate dedicated IEM jack...
> 
> I just downloaded the Boston 'Third Stage' album from HDtracks in 24bit/96kHz FLAC late last night, but didn't listen to it on my STAX rig, was on my bedroom TH-X00PH centered rig. Very nice sounding, but don't have CD album to compare it with to see what difference there is. Want to listen to it tonight on my STAX rig.




Thank you for the suggestion and thorough reply VRacer! I really, really like this suggestion. I am surprised at the amount of features this DAC has at that price. Now to check its availability in Norway..


----------



## buzzlulu

padam said:


> If you are patient enough, you can find an SRM-T1 for a reasonable price, it sounds great with the SR-X Mk3, SRM-1 Mk2 is also fine for about half as much money.




Relatively new to Stax currently using L300LE/353XBK and a soon to arrive 009S
A Carbon will eventually arrive and serve as my main amp.  If one wants a Tube amp to play with every now and then (and does not want to spend BHSE money) which is the best Stax tube amp - something like the T1 mentioned above  - or simply a current day 007 Tube amp?


----------



## SeaWo|f

Value wise a ccs modded t1 would be hard to beat. But a KGST is a more expensive but very good option. Half the price of a BHSE. Or if you can find or commission one a KGDT would cut the price further. And finally you could look for an SRX plus.


----------



## buzzlulu

SeaWo|f said:


> Value wise a ccs modded t1 would be hard to beat. But a KGST is a more expensive but very good option. Half the price of a BHSE. Or if you can find or commission one a KGDT would cut the price further. And finally you could look for an SRX plus.



I have been emailing with Spritzer about a Carbon.  I see that he shows on his website a refurbished T1 which appears to have this modification (as per the description on his website?)
The KGST is 3 times the cost of his T1 - and double the cost of a new 007.  Considering that a Carbon will be my daily driver - and a tube amp will be strictly to have a tube flavor - this is the reason for my inquiry.  So are you saying that performance wise a modded T1 is considered to be better than a current day 007?

And I guess while we are at it with the questions - a T1 compared to a current 353X (already realizing one is SS vs. Tube)?


----------



## SeaWo|f

I have not seen a direct comparison between the two, but overall the modded t1 has quite positive reviews. That may be reflective ou it's value. The 007t has mixed reviews skewed toward negative.


----------



## JimL11

Olschl said:


> I am one of those 2 channel guys who prefer listening to "roomspeakers" and only use my earspeakers  about 20% of my listening time. I am powering my SRX MkIIIs (and SRD-40s which I still enjoy) with an SRD-7 which is ancient, Through an Audioengine N22 from the tape-out of a Primare I32. I have asked this question before and not really gotten much of a response. My hearing is not the same in both ears and I'd like to replace the SRD-7 with something that has balance control. Because my Stax are not my primary listening interface and because I am always trying to improve the sources - a new tonearm is next on the list - I don't want to spend more than I have to; but I'd like the best value for the money I do spend, I am thinking of a SRM-313, which is circa 1999 if I am not mistaken, or a SRM-1 ( I understand the MK2 is more desirable than the MK none). Either would eliminate the N22, which I hope would be a good thing. Objectively, the SRM-313 seems like the best choice, since they seem to go for a lot less than the SRM-1s and would be less likely to need a rebuild; but I sense that the SRM-1 Mk2 is held in much higher regard. I have no use for the Pro-only socket at this time; but it is my understanding that it is safe to use it for the electrets. Can anyone confirm statement AND has anyone had experience with the 313 vs the SRM-1 vs the Mk2? Is the SRM-1 MK2 really worth the extra $500 - $1,000? Would it need a refurb? I there a better option I am unaware of? I really don't have much problem with the sound quality I am getting now. It blows away my dynamics; it's just these old ear drums.



Any of the older amps (i.e. SRM-1, SRA-3S, SRM-T1 series) which were all pre-1995 should really have all the electrolytic capacitors replaced as those are well past their design lifespan. The newer amps post-2000 lack a normal bias output socket for your SRX MkIII. The 313 was the last amp to have a normal bias socket, but it was released in 1995 so the oldest samples either need or will soon need electrolytic cap replacement.


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## JimL11

SeaWo|f said:


> Value wise a ccs modded t1 would be hard to beat. But a KGST is a more expensive but very good option. Half the price of a BHSE. Or if you can find or commission one a KGDT would cut the price further. And finally you could look for an SRX plus.



Looks like the modded T1 on spritzer's web site is pretty similar to mine, so I can definitely recommend it. Or, if you can do some DIY or find someone to do it for you, the parts cost (in the US), including replacing all the capacitors, is less than $100 USD, plus the cost of a used T1. A KGDT or KGST would likely sound a bit better because of the regulated power supply, and in the case of the KGST, more powerful output stage. You'll have a hard time finding an SRX Plus because it is (so far) DIY only; AFAIK nobody is building them for sale, although @Sorrodje did commission a build.


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## padam (Jun 21, 2018)

The Woo Audio GES is also a good amp, it is essentially the original Stax SRX circuit and it is available new.

But I think it is not necessarily needed, you will get adjusted to solid-state after a while, that's my opinion anyway after not listening to the SRA3S for weeks.


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## buzzlulu

My DIY days left the house back when I was active in Amateur Radio in the 70's.  Have not picked up a soldering iron since.  Hell back then IC's did not exist.
The T1 on Spritzers site looks to have been completely rebuilt.  Since he did it I am sure it is up to snuff 

So if one's main drive will be SS (ie Carbon or the like)  - to have something inexpensive with tubes to play around with - it sounds like a T1 could be a player.  A KGST is significantly more costly and the 007 (not bad price wise) has mixed reviews.


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## SeaWo|f

If you don't mind diy then really look at the srx plus. Parts cost is low. And it looks pretty straight forward build wise. I think jiml just updated the psu.


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## Whitigir

Let’s hear some more about 009S impressions !! Are we certain that “S” has lighter bass than 009 ? Or do we really need 18 years of burn-in ? LOl


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## JimL11

padam said:


> The Woo Audio GES is also a good amp, it is essentially the original Stax SRX circuit and it is available new.
> 
> But I think it is not necessarily needed, you will get adjusted to solid-state after a while, that's my opinion anyway after not listening to the SRA3S for weeks.



Actually, I believe the Woo GES is based on Kevin Gilmore's original all triode design (published in the now defunct HeadWize site;, which uses 12AX7 tubes for a single-ended grounded grid input stage, followed by a split load inverter, then grounded cathodes in the driver stage, and 6S4A plate resistor loaded outputs, all capacitor coupled except for the direct-coupled outputs. It uses 4 tubes/channel, two 12AX7s and two 6S4A

The SRX is a DIY Stax circuit using 12AT7 cross coupled cascode differential inputs which provide gain and phase inversion, cap coupled to a differential stage 6CG7/6FQ7 plate resistor loaded direct coupled outputs - completely different circuit topology from the GES. It uses 3 tubes/channel, two 12AT7s and one 6CG7, and is inherently balanced from input to output.

The SRX Plus substitutes constant current sources for the differential tail resistors at both input and output stages, plus constant current loads for the output 6SN7GTA/B tubes, which have similar electrical characteristics to the 6CG7 but higher voltage and power limits. The big advantage of constant current loads is it eliminates the wastage of signal current due to the output plate resistors, which more than doubles the effective power of the output devices.


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## padam (Jun 21, 2018)

True, it is more similar to the ES-1/2 I was confused because my friend had built the DIY version way, way back, and I remember that he told me that he had used a Stax circuit.

Found it (in low-res), maybe I think this was the one. Kind of fun to see it dating back almost 10 years.


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## JimL11 (Jun 21, 2018)

This is the original SRX circuit:





The [Singlepower] ES-1/2 was a rip-off of the original SRX. It was botched because unlike the original, it used a common filament supply for both input and output tubes (notice that there are two filament supplies in the original circuit, seen at the bottom to left of center). Since the input tube cathode voltages are close to zero or positive, and the output cathode voltages sit near B-, the output tube filament to cathode voltages far exceeded their rated limits, resulting in early failure of the output tubes.

And this is the simplified SRX Plus circuit:




The double circles represent the constant current sources/loads.


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## aldavey

Apologies if this not allowed, I have a Mojolnir KGSSHV Carbon and 009 combo for sale, just over 18 months old. Please PM me if of interest, will have to restrict this to UK only, sorry.
And once again if I've tripped up protocol on Head Fi apologies.


----------



## GarageBoy

Is your new shunt supply 100% ready yet? Can't find boards for the grhv, and it looks complicated


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## JimL11

And here is the Gilmore all-triode amp:


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## JimL11 (Jun 21, 2018)

GarageBoy said:


> Is your new shunt supply 100% ready yet? Can't find boards for the grhv, and it looks complicated



Yes, it is. Schematic here:







The GRHV board files are posted on another web site, do a search for stax mafia circuit boards. The GRHV is more complicated than my shunt supply, but it has much lower output impedance and probably lower noise.


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## Olschl

JimL11 said:


> Any of the older amps (i.e. SRM-1, SRA-3S, SRM-T1 series) which were all pre-1995 should really have all the electrolytic capacitors replaced as those are well past their design lifespan. The newer amps post-2000 lack a normal bias output socket for your SRX MkIII. The 313 was the last amp to have a normal bias socket, but it was released in 1995 so the oldest samples either need or will soon need electrolytic cap replacement.


I guess the most basic question (and believe me my knowledge on the subject is as basic as it gets) is 'Would the 313 be expected to be an upgrade in SQ or at least as good as the SRD-7/N22 combination?" I thank you for your patience.


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## padam (Jun 22, 2018)

Olschl said:


> I guess the most basic question (and believe me my knowledge on the subject is as basic as it gets) is 'Would the 313 be expected to be an upgrade in SQ or at least as good as the SRD-7/N22 combination?" I thank you for your patience.


Generally, when you use a transformer, you add a slight veiling to the sound. So the SRM-313 should have less distortion and better detail although it may sound brighter. But there are many speaker amp-based setups that sound great with a Stax adapter as well.
This is the graveyard thread about it using the SR-X Mk3 and the SR-404 with both an SRD-7 and speaker amps and a Stax SRM-006t as well.


----------



## Contrails

009 vs L700 on KGST amp. Which one would sound better? I am thinking of getting a used 009 instead of the L700. I already picked up a KGST.


----------



## padam

Contrails said:


> 009 vs L700 on KGST amp. Which one would sound better? I am thinking of getting a used 009 instead of the L700. I already picked up a KGST.


Taken from a comparative review: "SR-009 has slightly better technicalities overall (in resolution and especially in sound texture more real), but both has their specificities. The L700 has warmer mids, more impact in the bass department, and less trebles (with a little bit more plastic feeling you usually get with electrostats). The SR009 has a little bit colder mids, more trebles energy and quality, more refined bass with more linearity. The soundstage is quite different, SR009 has a bigger soundstage and a slightly more laidback approach. L700 has a more intimate and more frontal presentation of the music which is more engaging (and personally like a lot) and keep the out of the head feeling. As a conclusion, while the SR009 is the better headphone, I can imagine people preferring the approach of the L700 over the SR009 and for the pricing of the L700 it's one of the greatest value in this price range"

If you can get the SR-009 for a good price, it is probably worth it for that amp.


----------



## Contrails

Thanks Padam


----------



## padam

Also, that particular amp which I think you picked has a normal bias output, so might as well consider picking one of those as well, if you like to listen to old recordings sometimes.
They are a nice contrast to the hyper-detailed presentation of the new ones, they are excellent at playing music without taking too much on technicalities.


----------



## Olschl

padam said:


> Generally, when you use a transformer, you add a slight veiling to the sound. So the SRM-313 should have less distortion and better detail although it may sound brighter. But there are many speaker amp-based setups that sound great with a Stax adapter as well.
> This is the graveyard thread about it using the SR-X Mk3 and the SR-404 with both an SRD-7 and speaker amps and a Stax SRM-006t as well.


Thanks! You are a prince.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Jun 23, 2018)

Just realized Spritzer has a new Electrostatic amp on his Electrostatic amplifiers page (since the 14th of June)... the Octave III.

Simple electrostatic amp in the vein of an SRD-7 with no volume control on unit. It's an Octave V2 with balanced input only for use with a preamp.










Small unit with what looks to be the same form factor as his modded SRD-7.


----------



## powertoold

Someone said L700 has more bass impact than 009. I find that hard to believe since the L700 has little subbass or impact.


----------



## oneguy

Count me amongst those that feel the L700 has more bass than the 009.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Yes L700 has more Midbass impact then SR009.
I hope the SR009s has even more.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Trance_Gott said:


> Yes L700 has more Midbass impact then SR009.
> I hope the SR009s has even more.



Early impressions are the SR-009S has less than the SR-009, but both are held back by improperly sealing pads. The amp plays a role here too of course.


----------



## padam

There is one owner who wrote that the bass hasn't decreased.
More like the opposite, SR-009 pads seal rather well (imho), if you break the seal you get a lot more bass, but it's not a positive change. You can also get an SR-007 Mk2 that has improper seal by default (not at the earpads, at the cable entry) and more bass quantity as a result (but less bass depth). It can be plugged in but if it is not the SZ2 version it might not be worthwhile to do so.
There were some tinkering in this thread as well, but in the end it was reverted back to stock.
Most of these mods are quite personal and not what the manufacturer had in mind when they did the tuning, so feel free to experiment but also take them with a grain of salt.


----------



## Trance_Gott (Jun 23, 2018)

And on Fujija festival ALL impressions said more bass.
That's the problem with every early impressions.
I remain the first impressions for the HE1000 telling there is coming a Game Changer bla bla bla.
In the end all that was not the truth.
What means more bass? My 007 pushes more fuller bass but my 009 are hitting harder. L700 has more midbass hump then 009 but 009 has more lower bass.
And yes a not proper seal kills the bass on every electrostatic headphone!

My only problem with the SR009 is too much forward in the mids and a little too bright. 
Seems these two aspects are fixed.


----------



## Rodeodave

Today I finally got around to finish the step down transformer build for my newly acquired SRM-007tA. The Stax amp is now running off a 100VAC balanced output step down transformer. It's all a bit messy still,  but so far I really like what I'm hearing!


----------



## AudioThief

Contrails said:


> 009 vs L700 on KGST amp. Which one would sound better? I am thinking of getting a used 009 instead of the L700. I already picked up a KGST.



009 hands down IMO. It is clearly better in terms of technicalities. I think L700 and 009 are quite similar headphones overall, 009 just does everything better.


----------



## Whitigir

Trance_Gott said:


> And on Fujija festival ALL impressions said more bass.
> That's the problem with every early impressions.
> I remain the first impressions for the HE1000 telling there is coming a Game Changer bla bla bla.
> In the end all that was not the truth.
> ...



Thanks for the impressions, still loving my 009, and I do hope the 009S is a combination of both worlds 007+009=009S


----------



## Contrails

Gents, one more question.  I have been offered a 007mk1.  I have read that this beast is not easy to drive.  I have a KGST amp (350v).  Will it suffice?

Second, the 007mk2(sz3) is easier to drive?

Regards


----------



## chinsettawong

The efficiencies of both SR007 MK1 and MK2 are about the same.


----------



## JimL11 (Jun 24, 2018)

Contrails said:


> Gents, one more question.  I have been offered a 007mk1.  I have read that this beast is not easy to drive.  I have a KGST amp (350v).  Will it suffice?
> 
> Second, the 007mk2(sz3) is easier to drive?
> 
> Regards



The KGST is perfectly fine for driving either edition of the 007.


----------



## AudioThief (Jun 24, 2018)

Contrails said:


> Gents, one more question.  I have been offered a 007mk1.  I have read that this beast is not easy to drive.  I have a KGST amp (350v).  Will it suffice?
> 
> Second, the 007mk2(sz3) is easier to drive?
> 
> Regards



unqualified opinion, ignore.


----------



## Rhamnetin (Jun 24, 2018)

AudioThief said:


> I haven't heard the BHSE or Carbon, but I seriously, seriously doubt that the benefits of those amps are "worth" it so to speak. I use my 007 mk1s out of a 727II, which sounds absolutely fantastic, better than anything I've ever heard. What I will say is that 007 vs 009 is a matter of taste. I don't think the 007 will ever touch the technicalities of the 009, and I think that the people saying that (the same people who say you "MUST" have a BHSE or Carbon to truly "get" the 007s) are just defending their 6000$ usd purchase, to be honest.
> 
> I would say that you need at least a 727II or KGST, HV, WES, Carbon, BHSE. Vintage stuff like SRM T1 and mk1 pro can also work, but likely on the edge there.
> 
> ...



Why would those people need to use mental gymnastics to justify their purchase? Many of them purchase plenty of other similarly expensive gear and it's not really a whole lot to them, others build plenty of those amps themselves so aren't spending nearly as much. I've never seen one person listen to the SR-007 or SR-009 with a BHSE or KGSSHV Carbon or even a KGSSHV, and claim those amps are not worth the price premium.

I used to own an SR-007A and a KGSS, and listened to various SR-007s and the SR-009 with the BHSE on multiple occasions, but never actually owned one of those top tier amps. Just from those auditions though, seemed worth it to me (such that I am now ordering a KGSSHV Carbon), very substantial difference but of course deciding whether or not it's worthwhile is completely subjective. I have no issue selling off or returning more expensive audio gear for less expensive ones if the latter sounds better.


----------



## mulveling

"I have no experience with the expensive amps, but here's my thoughts on them..."


----------



## Rhamnetin

mulveling said:


> "I have no experience with the expensive amps, but here's my thoughts on them..."



That is indeed what he said, so of course that post should be taken with truckloads of salt.


----------



## AudioThief

mulveling said:


> "I have no experience with the expensive amps, but here's my thoughts on them..."



Fine, I'll delete the post.


----------



## wink (Jun 24, 2018)

AudioThief said:


> I haven't heard the BHSE or Carbon, but I *seriously, seriously* doubt that the benefits of those amps are "worth" it so to speak. .



Until you've actually heard a SR-007 or SR009 through a BHSE or Carbon your opinion is conjectural and based on no factual evidence.

I *seriously, seriously* suggest you make the effort to audition them before making any definitive decision.
At least then any opininion you may have would be based upon personal experience rather the protestations of your wallet,wife, bank manager or any orher influence on your financial wellbeing.........

btw, we're allowed our opinions, it 's just that personal experience trumps conjecture every time.....


----------



## AudioThief

Rhamnetin said:


> Why would those people need to use mental gymnastics to justify their purchase? Many of them purchase plenty of other similarly expensive gear and it's not really a whole lot to them, others build plenty of those amps themselves so aren't spending nearly as much. I've never seen one person listen to the SR-007 or SR-009 with a BHSE or KGSSHV Carbon or even a KGSSHV, and claim those amps are not worth the price premium.
> 
> I used to own an SR-007A and a KGSS, and listened to various SR-007s and the SR-009 with the BHSE on multiple occasions, but never actually owned one of those top tier amps. Just from those auditions though, seemed worth it to me (such that I am now ordering a KGSSHV Carbon), very substantial difference but of course deciding whether or not it's worthwhile is completely subjective. I have no issue selling off or returning more expensive audio gear for less expensive ones if the latter sounds better.



I'm not saying its completely mental gymnastics, but even if it was, its easy to see why someone taking the plunge on a $5000 piece of equipment would be subject to potentially wanting to justify their purchase.. ? I'm no objectivist, but how 450V isn't enough to power the 007s is just kinda strange to me. But hey, maybe you are completely correct, I can't possibly know because I haven't heard it. But you need to understand just how few people actually own the BHSE, Carbon and DIY T2/T2 aka the only "true" 007 amps. Like, its an EXTREMELY small sample size. Now you are saying that the $5000 jump to the Carbon is worth it sonically... I'm sure you can agree that even most high end audiophile enthusiasts would disagree that it is worth it, even though its of course impossible to quantify these sort of purchases...

My point isn't really that they are doing crazy mental gymnastics, I'll concede that these amps probably do sound better than the lesser amps such as the one I own. But that the difference is "night and day" and that it transforms the 007 into a 009 killer, that ONLY spritzer amps or BHSE are even worth pairing with the headphone? Come on. That sort of nonsense can only stand because of the elitist culture of high end electrostatic discussion forums. There are only a few privileged people who have a chance at affording these amplifiers, and the amount of people actually pairing them with the 007s, a somewhat rare headphone as it is... Yeah, I think the logical conclusion here is that although the carbon and bhse might do sound better, even significantly better, to say that it somehow transforms the headphones completely.. I don't think thats logical at all.


----------



## AudioThief

wink said:


> Until you've actually heard a SR-007 or SR009 through a BHSE or Carbon your opinion is conjectural and based on no factual evidence.
> 
> I *seriously, seriously* suggest you make the effort to audition them before making any definitive decision.
> At least then any opininion you may have would be based upon personal experience rather the protestations of your wallet,wife, bank manager or any orher influence on your financial wellbeing.........
> ...



I am definitely not making any definitive decisions - I do want to hear one of those amps one day in the future. But as you say, we are allowed opinions. And I think its healthy to have voices bringing this topic a bit down to earth again.. If a novice audiophile got in touch with me and asked me if buying a TOTL headphone was worth it period, I wouldn't even say that it necessarily was - its so personal what people want and require out of a pair of headphone, what sort of improvements matter the most, what truly is important. I just think its crazy how the top elite estat consumers can say that you MUST have third party amps to properly drive the 007s. I mean lets go so far to say that it really does completely transform the 007 - its a different headphone, much, much better than the one I am listening through my 727IIs. EVEN then, the 007 mk1s via the 727II completely trumps any other headphone I've ever heard, including the SR-L line of headphones. And these people will say that getting the 007s literally isn't worth it unless you get "AT LEAST" the KGSSHV. 

Its just one of many instances of complete disconnect from reality, that I really struggle to take people seriously when they say that its night and day, that the 007s are crap without powerful, expensive third party amps - Can anyone even explain exactly why the 007s are designed in a way that makes them borderline impossible to drive (a feat STAX themselves haven't figured out except for the exceedingly rare T2 amp which was released before the 007s), while the 009 and all the other STAX headphones are super simple to drive? 

In a hobby with such insane amounts of subjectivity, is it really that unreasonable by me to be skeptical to the lofty claims people make of these extremely rare and expensive amplifiers, especially considering I have never heard an amplifier change the characteristics of a headphone to the extent people claim that the carbon and bhse does? Is it strange to suspect that there may be hyperbole connected to a rare $5000 piece of equipment in a super niche hobby? 

People can of course say that only people who have heard the amp are allowed an opinion, or even better, only those who have owned it for a long amount of time to REALLY get ot know the sound - but that is exactly the kind of mindset that makes these crazy claims stick.


----------



## mulveling

Man, imagine how much words he'll write after he actually HEARS one of these amps!


----------



## AudioThief (Jun 24, 2018)

mulveling said:


> Man, imagine how much words he'll write after he actually HEARS one of these amps!



Serious question, why are you just mocking me for sharing my opinion? I get it that you don't want to discuss the topic with me, thats completely fine. But why do you feel the need to mock me ?

edit: just so my comment isn't pure salt, I did chuckle at your post. And then I became offended, thus the reply.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Transforming the headphone into something completely different is often an exaggeration, I agree. Too bad I let go of my KGSS, so I won't be able to do direct comparisons but plenty of others have. I have done direct comparisons between my TOTL dynamic headphone amp (Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar) and lower end amps (the Chord Hugo 2's amp and a Schiit Lyr 3 with really nice tubes) with various headphones, and I am keeping the TOTL one and purging the lower end gear because the improvement is so satisfactory.


----------



## AudioThief

Rhamnetin said:


> Transforming the headphone into something completely different is often an exaggeration, I agree. Too bad I let go of my KGSS, so I won't be able to do direct comparisons but plenty of others have. I have done direct comparisons between my TOTL dynamic headphone amp (Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar) and lower end amps (the Chord Hugo 2's amp and a Schiit Lyr 3 with really nice tubes) with various headphones, and I am keeping the TOTL one and purging the lower end gear because the improvement is so satisfactory.



I think its typical for those who can afford it to go for the best, however marginal the improvements. And it likely requires a special kind of person to get to the true endstage of fidelity as is. I completely understand that there are people who truly do value the performance gained from the best available equipment, however marginal that gain may be - hell, I suspect I'm one of them - I just don't have the wallet to support it. But there is a difference between what a few select audiophiles believe, and what is actually "true" in a broader sense, insofar that can be established in such a subjective hobby - my point is that the recommendations people make should be somewhat grounded to earth - to say that someone "must" get at least this or that headphone or this or that amp to enjoy their music - its getting to be a bit crazy, I think. And I've read a lot of info on a lot of equipment, and I don't think anything has struck me as more out of the world and strange than the claims made by the elite estat guys. 

I haven't heard my current setup with complete Nordost cabling either, but I reserve my right to be skeptical on just how much that would improve its sound.


----------



## buzzlulu

mulveling said:


> Man, imagine how much words he'll write after he actually HEARS one of these amps!



I do not think he is mocking you.  

I find on HeadFi that many comment, pontificate and advise on gear they have never heard.  Its like someone saying - buy this car because its fast, has a tight suspension and handles amazing - yet they never owned or even drove it.

I will only pay attention to those who have actually heard, demoed, or owned the gear they are commenting on.  Anything else I tend to tune out.
I only comment or express opinions on things I have owned or demoed.  After that I tend to ask more than say 

Interesting debate however as I am currently in the midst of making some similar decisions regarding my journey down the Stax rabbit hole.


----------



## joseph69

mulveling said:


> Man, imagine how much words he'll write after he actually HEARS one of these amps!


This made me LMAO.



AudioThief said:


> Serious question, why are you just mocking me for sharing my *opinion*?


You can't have an opinion on any of these amps you've never heard, you can only have your thoughts.



AudioThief said:


> I just don't have the wallet to support it.


Don't get mad...get E-Trade.


----------



## AudioThief

buzzlulu said:


> I do not think he is mocking you.
> 
> I find on HeadFi that many comment, pontificate and advise on gear they have never heard.  Its like someone saying - buy this car because its fast, has a tight suspension and handles amazing - yet they never owned or even drove it.
> 
> ...



But this is so absurd - I can't comment on what can sufficiently drive the 007s because I haven't heard every high end amp for it? And the guys who have heard the most expensive amps are the only ones who are allowed to comment on it? Thats not rational at all. I agree that if someone comes into a thread, lets say he owns the HD650 and the LCD2s - and starts giving out advice on what sort of electrostatic headphone pairs best with what sort of DAC,and so on - thats just pure conjecture obviously and irrelevant. 

But me, as an owner of an 007 mk1 and 727II, having heard many, many headphones, both dynamic and electrostat, cannot give my opinion on the claims that 5000$ third party amps are pure magic that is just way way way better than anything you could ever dream to get from stax themselves... ? 

I get it that someone that have heard a piece of equipment obviously has firsthand experience that is very much more valuable than pure guesswork, but don't you see the pitfalls of this mindset when it comes to something as niche as $5000 third party estat amps for a specific headphone? Its not as if there is some parliament of estat elites that has voted and it was unanimously decided that KGSSHV or above for the 007 or don't even bother - you have people with conflicting opinions even amongst the elites.. Muppetface has said that the 727II is a good amp. Spritzer has said its hot garbage. Others will say that KGSSHV is plenty of juice for the 007, and then others will say that unless you have Carbon or BHSE, you're leaving fidelity on the table big time and they wouldn't even bother with the 007s. 

Now thats from the few people who have actually heard the amplifiers in question. But my point is that I am not talking against some established, agreed upon "truth" from those who have heard the amps. And even if that was the case, we have to consider that they are not completely unbiased or even necessarily the best ones to give out advice. Have you not noticed how elitist a lot of these people come off? One thing is succinct, level headed comparisons and reviews. But how many articles or posts on BHSE / Carbon vs Stax amps on the 007 are there even? Not a lot.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Yeah there are lots of opinions to sort through, such is life. The idea though is that the people who actually have experience with the amps in question obviously have the more valuable opinion. Don't worry, opinions don't get deleted on Head-Fi, only facts do!

Regarding published reviews comparing such amps, there is this one:

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/listening-great-headphone-amplifiers-and-stax-sr-900

Not many, but reviews don't get more honest than Tyll's.


----------



## AudioThief

joseph69 said:


> This made me LMAO.
> 
> You can't have an opinion on any of these amps you've never heard, you can only have your thoughts.
> 
> Don't get mad...get E-Trade.



I haven't given my opinion on the amps or their performance, I have given my opinion on the claims made about the equipment.


Rhamnetin said:


> Yeah there are lots of opinions to sort through, such is life. The idea though is that the people who actually have experience with the amps in question obviously have the more valuable opinion. Don't worry, opinions don't get deleted on Head-Fi, only facts do!
> 
> Regarding published reviews comparing such amps, there is this one:
> 
> ...



Yes, as a general rule of thumb, I completely get that pesonal experience trumps pure guesswork, as I said. But lets say someone in this thread has experience with all the amps mentioned, and he says well audiothief, all stax amps aside from the T2 is hot garbage, and if you're gonna get the 007, you gotta have carbon or bhse. No ifs, no buts. And I disagree, but of course my argument falls on deaf ears because this person has (or at least claims to have) personal experience.

Then another person comes into the thread, who also has personal experience, but he sides with me. So then the objective facts of the situation is completely swayed by whoever happened to participate in the thread at that very moment? Of course not. There is a truth out there, but personal opinion is personal opinion. Using some level of reasoning and thinking rationally shouldn't be completely laughed at as and strongly opposed as I am seeing in this thread right now. As far as I can tell, it seems people in this thread don't want to even consider my arguments, but rather just go hands up and say hey, if someone with personal experience says x, well then we MUST take them on their word for it because they have that experience.

As for Tyll, I've disagreed with him on so many things where I have personal experience myself, that I have come to accept him as human, just like me and you. And that is exactly what research in this hobby is all about... You just have to wade through many, many differing opinions, consider many different components, your taste in music etc.. Which is why I hate blanket statements like you MUST HAVE BHSE if you're gonn have the 007s. To me, the people who make those claims are just too deep into the hobby. Its all about elitism at that point in my eyes. Remember why we got started here in the first place - to enjoy our music. I have ears, I have a lot of experience with a lot of equipment - I know that my 007 mk1s and 727II sounds objectively freakin fantastic. If we are going to tell people that unless they can deck out 3000$ extra for the next jump up in amplifying power to even bother with the 007s... We lost touch.


----------



## azabu

AudioThief said:


> I haven't given my opinion on the amps or their performance, I have given my opinion on the claims made about the equipment.



You're entitled to your views. The great thing about head-fi is it's a community sharing views to reach a common objective, which is to achieve the best sound. It doesn't cost anything to listen to collective experience, it's up to you to take that knowledge, audition and let your ears be the judge. 

I have the BHSE and Stax SRM 007tA. The Stax 007tA is underpowered for the 007 headphones. Does it matter? Not in the slightest if you're satisfied.


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## AudioThief

azabu said:


> You're entitled to your views. The great thing about head-fi is it's a community sharing views to reach a common objective, which is to achieve the best sound. It doesn't cost anything to listen to collective experience, it's up to you to take that knowledge, audition and let your ears be the judge.
> 
> I have the BHSE and Stax SRM 007tA. The Stax 007tA is underpowered for the 007 headphones. Does it matter? Not in the slightest if you're satisfied.



There is what, 110V difference between the 007tA output vs 727II. And not to mention the KGSV which was the amp originally mentioned by the guy in the op. Should be plenty of power. 

Now its completely fine to enjoy the BHSE significantly more than your stax amp, thats not really whats being discussed, however. But yes, Head Fi is great. Less elitists here compared to other sites I won't mention. 8)


----------



## azabu

AudioThief said:


> There is what, 110V difference between the 007tA output vs 727II. And not to mention the KGSV which was the amp originally mentioned by the guy in the op. Should be plenty of power.
> 
> Now its completely fine to enjoy the BHSE significantly more than your stax amp, thats not really whats being discussed, however. But yes, Head Fi is great. Less elitists here compared to other sites I won't mention. 8)



then you're good to go!

btw if you're ever in the market for a dac, audition the Chord Qutest.


----------



## arnaud

AudioThief said:


> There is what, 110V difference between the 007tA output vs 727II. And not to mention the KGSV which was the amp originally mentioned by the guy in the op. Should be plenty of power.
> 
> Now its completely fine to enjoy the BHSE significantly more than your stax amp, thats not really whats being discussed, however. But yes, Head Fi is great. Less elitists here compared to other sites I won't mention. 8)



I doubted like you, put my money where my mouth is, compared (also to other 3rd party amps through local friends), the rest is history. I think you’re mistaken if you think this is elitist attitude but, for sure, nobody except you can judge if the upgrade is worth it.


----------



## AudioThief

arnaud said:


> I doubted like you, put my money where my mouth is, compared (also to other 3rd party amps through local friends), the rest is history. I think you’re mistaken if you think this is elitist attitude but, for sure, nobody except you can judge if the upgrade is worth it.



Ok but please consider that I am not doubting the third party amps are better performers. I am doubting the wild claims that are completely out of this world made by the estat elite. Why is it that some third party amplifiers seemingly can take already great headphone, revolutionize them and just take them into the stratosphere sonically? Don't you think that people who are willing to spend $5000 on an AMPLIFIER might use a tad bit of hyperbole when describing their equipment ? 

I know I sound so incredibly sour and salty, as if I have a personal agenda against those who claim these things - I do not. I really do believe that the claims are made with intellectual honesty - I just think that when giving advice to people looking to purchase, its important to take a step back and consider exactly what can be achieved by upgrading from a $2000 amp to a $5000 amp, realistically.


----------



## SeaWo|f

AudioThief said:


> Don't you think that people who are willing to spend $5000 on an AMPLIFIER might use a tad bit of hyperbole when describing their equipment ?



For many spending that amount on an amplifier its nothing. This amount seems to be quite a big deal to you, but that is not the case for everyone.


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## AudioThief

SeaWo|f said:


> For many spending that amount on an amplifier its nothing. This amount seems to be quite a big deal to you, but that is not the case for everyone.



Uhuh, and if an owner of a lamborghini ventador tells you that if you're going to listen to him because he can afford the most expensive lamborghini, while you are looking at the two entry level models - you wouldn't take it with a pinch of salt when he tells you that unless you're getting the ventador you're wasting your money.. ? 

We are talking about giving advice to someone looking to purchase the 007. They are making laughable claims, take a step back, consider what the purpose of getting an estat setup is (hint: its not to compare and brag on forums, but listen to music).


----------



## aldavey

Rhamnetin said:


> Why would those people need to use mental gymnastics to justify their purchase? Many of them purchase plenty of other similarly expensive gear and it's not really a whole lot to them, others build plenty of those amps themselves so aren't spending nearly as much. I've never seen one person listen to the SR-007 or SR-009 with a BHSE or KGSSHV Carbon or even a KGSSHV, and claim those amps are not worth the price premium.
> 
> I used to own an SR-007A and a KGSS, and listened to various SR-007s and the SR-009 with the BHSE on multiple occasions, but never actually owned one of those top tier amps. Just from those auditions though, seemed worth it to me (such that I am now ordering a KGSSHV Carbon), very substantial difference but of course deciding whether or not it's worthwhile is completely subjective. I have no issue selling off or returning more expensive audio gear for less expensive ones if the latter sounds better.


I have an as new Spritzer Carbon for sale, PM me if interested.


----------



## Rossliew

aldavey said:


> I have an as new Spritzer Carbon for sale, PM me if interested.



How would you describe the performance of this amp?


----------



## VandyMan

AudioThief said:


> Uhuh, and if an owner of a lamborghini ventador tells you that if you're going to listen to him because he can afford the most expensive lamborghini, while you are looking at the two entry level models - you wouldn't take it with a pinch of salt when he tells you that unless you're getting the ventador you're wasting your money.. ?
> 
> We are talking about giving advice to someone looking to purchase the 007. They are making laughable claims, take a step back, consider what the purpose of getting an estat setup is (hint: its not to compare and brag on forums, but listen to music).



To someone who can afford a 5K amp without financial strain, the comment that it is bad because it is expensive is not going to be a view they share. It is not that your opinion is invalid if you can't afford it. It is that your opinion is invalid because to you price is the most important factor and others here do not share that perspective. I strongly advocate against people spending more than they can reasonably afford on audio equipment, but that is not what the STAX topic in the ToTL Headphone forum is about. 

More useful, and interesting, is to compare these amps on their sound quality, build, looks, and features. Then, we can say if relative to each other, that one is overpriced or not. Since you have not heard them, why would anyone care what you have to say about them? Go to Head-Fi meet or CanJam, listen, and then share what your opinions.

I do agree that posters on audio forums widely overstate the differences between gear, at all prices ranges. DACs in particular, IMO. That said, I own the STAX 727-ii (modded) and a BHSE, so I've heard them side by side. I also had a chance to hear a Carbon KGSSHV side by side with my BHSE over the weekend (thanks Craig). I'll post more about this when I get time. For the BHSE vs the 727, it really is a big difference. The 727 sounds ok. I enjoyed it with my 009s for a year while waiting for my BHSE and still use it in my second STAX setup in mu home office. However, directly compared to the BHSE, it is flat, lifeless, and dynamically compressed.


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## aldavey

Rossliew said:


> How would you describe the performance of this amp?


I originally paired a Stax SRM007tA with my 009's. I kept reading that KG amps were essential to understand the true performance of say 007's or 009's. I had no opportunity of auditioning before purchase. I went for Mjolnir as his reputation proceeds him in terms of build quailty and customer service.
If you search back through this thread to about April/May of last year you will see that I was blown away when I first heard my 009's through the Carbon. It's a completely different Ear Speaker, the best I've ever heard. The Stax amp was sold immediately as a result.
My advice is buy a Carbon for plug and play, or a BHSE if tubes are your thing, if you want to hear what these Ear Speakers are really all about. It's is as simple as that..... or go the whole hog and get a T2, just ask Whitgir.


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## VandyMan (Jun 25, 2018)

To stretch the sports car analogy a bit more, it is like you bought the Lamborghini and then filled it with regular gas. The Lamborghini aficionados all say, what a waste, because you are not getting the performance you paid for. You say, well what difference does it make, it gets me where I want to go. Both sides are correct, but have different priorities. Here, our priority is ultimate performance.


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## georgep

VandyMan said:


> To someone who can afford a 5K amp without financial strain, the comment that it is bad because it is expensive is not going to be a view they share. It is not that your opinion is invalid if you can't afford it. It is that your opinion is invalid because to you price is the most important factor and others here do not share that perspective. I strongly advocate against people spending more than they can reasonably afford on audio equipment, but that is not what the STAX topic in the ToTL Headphone forum is about.
> 
> More useful, and interesting, is to compare these amps on their sound quality, build, looks, and features. Then, we can say if relative to each other, that one is overpriced or not. Since you have not heard them, why would anyone care what you have to say about them? Go to Head-Fi meet or CanJam, listen, and then share what your opinions.
> 
> I do agree that posters on audio forums widely overstate the differences between gear, at all prices ranges. DACs in particular, IMO. That said, I own the STAX 727-ii (modded) and a BHSE, so I've heard them side by side. I also had a chance to hear a Carbon KGSSHV side by side with my BHSE over the weekend (thanks Craig). I'll post more about this when I get time. For the BHSE vs the 727, it really is a big difference. The 727 sounds ok. I enjoyed it with my 009s for a year while waiting for my BHSE and still use it in my second STAX setup in mu home office. However, directly compared to the BHSE, it is flat, lifeless, and dynamically compressed.



This is probably the fairest way to explain it. I too have a 727II and fully enjoy listening with it even though I have a couple of high-end electrostatic amps as well that sound better. So yes, I can enjoy Stax out of more affordable (some might say "lesser") amps.

To further again the car analogy. I own a Honda Odyssey (kids) and a Toyota Camry. I have driven and raced high-end BMWs through BMW's driving programs and I have driven a relative's Rolls Royce Ghost. These cars are significantly better than my Camry even though I thoroughly enjoy driving my Camry (hell I drive my van like a race car) even after having experienced on numerous occasions MUCH higher performance vehicles. I could certainly afford a much higher performance car (the Ghost excepted), but choose not to because the differences between the cars on a daily basis *FOR ME* is minor (plus I don't care as much now as I did when I was younger and into cars, and had no money). So you can go ahead and enjoy your Camry, but the performance guys are going to want something better.


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## aldavey

georgep said:


> This is probably the fairest way to explain it. I too have a 727II and fully enjoy listening with it even though I have a couple of high-end electrostatic amps as well that sound better. So yes, I can enjoy Stax out of more affordable (some might say "lesser") amps.
> 
> To further again the car analogy. I own a Honda Odyssey (kids) and a Toyota Camry. I have driven and raced high-end BMWs through BMW's driving programs and I have driven a relative's Rolls Royce Ghost. These cars are significantly better than my Camry even though I thoroughly enjoy driving my Camry (hell I drive my van like a race car) even after having experienced on numerous occasions MUCH higher performance vehicles. I could certainly afford a much higher performance car (the Ghost excepted), but choose not to because the differences between the cars on a daily basis *FOR ME* is minor (plus I don't care as much now as I did when I was younger and into cars, and had no money). So you can go ahead and enjoy your Camry, but the performance guys are going to want something better.


Also in my case as hearing ages the justification to own the very, very best in Stax amps. does not Stax up.......sorry about that.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Looking for some advice on synergy for my 009 rig. I've posted about this elsewhere, but situation has evolved a little. Any help is greatly appreciated.

I've been running Yggy>Carbon>009 for the past two years. The Carbon is an amazing amp and there is definite synergy between the Yggy/Carbon/and 009 - and the 009 can be picky. I enjoyed this setup for a long time.

I wanted to buy an endgame DAC and the Bricasti M1 SE was in reach and with the new ethernet card and roon ready it sealed it for me. It sounds fantastic with the Carbon / 009 - but definitely can be fatiguing (especially with female vocals). I think I prefer it to the Yggy as the system is ridiculously resolving - but the Yggy has some more presence and doesn't seem to be quite as sharp in the midrange. I also like the M1 a lot with my dynamic rig - but the resolution is just insane in the Stax rig.

I had a hi-fi dealer over to mess with the setup with some interconnects, power cables, ethernet cables etc. I He did remove the fatigue and made it sound better - but he added $7500 and that's an insane amount to spend on cables for my system IMHO.

What I'd love to be able to do is to retain the resolution and tonality of the M1, while reducing the fatigue. I almost sold them M1 a couple time, but can't bear to part with it yet - as it does certain things so well. So hear are my options:

1. Try some more affordable interconnects, other tweaks on my own (open to recommendations)
2. Sell the M1, keep the Yggy (most financially sound decision, and system is still incredibly engaging)
3. Sell the Carbon and Yggy, buy a different amp (how much would I lose with a KGST - that I could potentially make up in synergy)?
4. I have a Toruga Passive Preamp which I use to bypass the volume control. To me this is completely transparent. They now have a tube buffer I can throw in the chain which is not ridiculously priced https://www.tortugaaudio.com/products/preamp-buffers/tpb-v1-tube-preamp-buffer/     For those familiar with the tubes used, would that add any presence and slightly soften the upper mid?
5. Buy 009s, sell 009. I wish I could try this before doing it - but given the qualities of the 009s - will this create a more synergistic system?

The M1 is an amazing DAC, the Carbon is an amazing amp and the 009 are amazing headphones. Ultimately, what do I have to add or remove to the chain to get the type of synergy I'm after?


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## padam

Drewligarchy said:


> The M1 is an amazing DAC, the Carbon is an amazing amp and the 009 are amazing headphones. Ultimately, what do I have to add or remove to the chain to get the type of synergy I'm after?



I would try the SR-009S before anything else


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## Rhamnetin

Lots of options you have there. The ones that stand out the most to me are: the SR-009S, and selling perhaps both DACs and getting a really good NOS R2R DAC like the Audio Note DAC 5.1 Signature, Denafrips Terminator, or Metrum Pavane, since these are typically seen as the least fatiguing types of DACs.


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## mulveling (Jun 25, 2018)

Absolutely agree that 009S is by far the best bet and most effective play given your gear. Carbon matches better with 009S than 009. I find there are sweeter sounding DACs out there than Yggy, but moving to the 009S will definitely allow for a much wider range of DAC pairings without hitting the fatigue zone.

Cables can nudge things a bit one way or another, but it's very minor. DAC rolling is next. But 009 to 009S is much more significantly audible than both of those combined.


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## SeaWo|f

When talking about R2R pairings don't forget about the audio gd master 7.


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## Drewligarchy

I appreciate everyone's advice. I did demo an Aqua La Scala MkII in my system (though for only about 30 min), and I found the M1 more resolving and more enjoyable (except for the fatigue). This was the PC1704 vs. the Optologic - and maybe tubes hadn't warmed up.

I agree that the 009s are probably the best bet - just wish I could demo in my system. Probably will be able to eventually - they are just too new.


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## mulveling

I wouldn't get too hung up on the R2R vs. D-S DAC debate either. It's overrated. Either can make a nice sounding DAC.


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## Drewligarchy

mulveling said:


> I wouldn't get too hung up on the R2R vs. D-S DAC debate either. It's overrated. Either can make a nice sounding DAC.



Agree


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Woah. So much noise. Did we talk about diminishing returns in audio, and how HD600 + Magni3 combo is already kinda madness boundary to most people out there ? 
(I own both. As well as BHSE and way to much Staxens )

Ali


----------



## padam

So what happens after the HeadAmp DHT Stax amp's release? Is it just going to be BHSE and T2 in the classifieds?


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## Contrails

> Did we talk about diminishing returns in audio, and how HD600 + Magni3 combo is already kinda madness boundary to most people out there ?



But the same people would still pay $350 for some beats. Now that's madness.


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## Rhamnetin

Contrails said:


> But the same people would still pay $350 for some beats. Now that's madness.



Rekt


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## SeaWo|f

padam said:


> So what happens after the HeadAmp DHT Stax amp's release? Is it just going to be BHSE and T2 in the classifieds?



If this more or less confirmed rumor is true, with regard to tube choice I will be disappointed. Ignoring cost, these are highly specific tubes built from one very small manufacturer. Good luck finding replacement tubes if they go under in 5-10 years. Assuming the requirements from this still speculative amp are the same as other stats amps that use tubes in the output stage reconfiguring to strapped el34 should be possible but it is not as simple as slapping adapters in.. voltages and current requirements are different. They are a novelty and I think there is a reason why you see very very few diy dht grounded grids and other than one guy no dht BHSE or T2s.


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## padam

SeaWo|f said:


> If this more or less confirmed rumor is true, with regard to tube choice I will be disappointed. Ignoring cost, these are highly specific tubes built from one very small manufacturer. Good luck finding replacement tubes if they go under in 5-10 years. Assuming the requirements from this still speculative amp are the same as other stats amps that use tubes in the output stage reconfiguring to strapped el34 should be possible but it is not as simple as slapping adapters in.. voltages and current requirements are different. They are a novelty and I think there is a reason why you see very very few diy dht grounded grids and other than one guy no dht BHSE or T2s.



It is safe to say that those tubes will be stockpiled in relative to the number of amps built, so while there be many reasons why not to choose it, this is probably not one of them.


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## SeaWo|f

If the implication is headamp, other manufacturers or emission labs will be willing or able stock pile a significant number of these tubes I strongly disagree. I would look at the case of the winged c tube which was discontinued not too many years ago. The amount of amps of varying types that use the el34 is staggering especially if you include guitar amps. These while are not exactly hard to find the cost has risen significantly. Given the relative cost and applications I don't think it would be out of line to speculate that relatively, a very tiny fraction of 20b have been and will be produced by emission labs vs what sed made with the winged c. 

I don't know if the quality issues have been sorted out but recent impressions with build have been much more positive than the past. On the sound front there just isn't enough out there, but I would say the impressions that do exist aren't any better than the TOTL NOS or new production el34 in the same application.

I just feel like this is doing something to be different rather than because its better. Which for an individual diyer is fine, but when this could be sold in reasonably large numbers by headamp if things go sideways with the tubes I would not want to be stuck retrofitting the amps. Honestly at their size if they produced a lot of these and emission labs went under the cost of reconfiguring the amps would likely sink headamp.


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## Rhamnetin

Wait wait wait, is headamp supposedly making a KGSSHV Carbon with a DHT Circlotron Emission Labs 20B-V4 output?


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## SeaWo|f

No.

This is an all tube all headamp original design.


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## Rhamnetin

SeaWo|f said:


> No.
> 
> This is an all tube all headamp original design.



Ok cool. I actually heard about this in 2016 I think from a HeadAmp sales rep.


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## SeaWo|f

I was mentioned in this thread back around the end of 2016 beginning of 2017 too.

No details offered other than it was to compete with current(msb) and upcoming flagships(woo).


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## Rhamnetin

Compete with those? Seems modest!


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## mulveling (Jun 25, 2018)

I have no doubt, people who can spend Shang-ri-la, MSB, or top-Woo level of cash on a headphone amp will get a MUCH better engineered and much better built piece by going with whatever Headmp is cooking. The only drawback is they will probably have to be patient for a while.


----------



## JimL11

mulveling said:


> I have no doubt, people who can spend Shang-ri-la, MSB, or top-Woo level of cash on a headphone amp will get a MUCH better engineered and much better built piece by going with whatever Headmp is cooking. The only drawback is they will probably have to be patient for a while.



I agree, and it will be significantly better value for money as well.


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## buzzlulu

Silly question - does anyone have the dimensions of Birgir's stock Carbon (not the CC)?
Silly question #2 - how hot do they run - can they be situated on a plastic table?  left on all day?

and while I am on a roll with silly questions - one of the advantages of solid state is no warmup like with Tubes - YET - I have seen people comment that the Carbon takes 30 minutes to come on song


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## Drewligarchy

buzzlulu said:


> Silly question - does anyone have the dimensions of Birgir's stock Carbon (not the CC)?
> Silly question #2 - how hot do they run - can they be situated on a plastic table?  left on all day?
> 
> and while I am on a roll with silly questions - one of the advantages of solid state is no warmup like with Tubes - YET - I have seen people comment that the Carbon takes 30 minutes to come on song



I have Birgir’s stock Carbon. I don’t have the measurements handy - but I asked him the same question as I had to fit it in a tight space. I can take measurements for you when I get home, but it is a real workable size. I’m sure he’ll tell you if you e-mail him - he is absolutely great about that.

In terms of warmup, I used to let it warmup before use - and then I didn’t - because it sounds just as good at initial turn on then it does after 30 min. It may improve but I can’t detect it.

It runs pretty hot. It’s supposed to and it’s been rock solid since I bought it a couple years ago. It would probably be fine - but I personally wouldn’t run it on a plastic table. If you want to - maybe get some bigger footers for it.


----------



## Drewligarchy

For those that have tried the 009S - is there an increase in the low mids (500hz ish)

Listening to my 009 yesterday i think what’s causing the fatigue is not necessarily the upper miss alone but their balance with the low mids. I’d be curious as how these compare.

What would be amazing is if someone (even rough ) could give an idea of the changes in frequency response between 009 and 009s. This way we could eq our 009 to the 009s and get a sort of “demo” as I would think the technical capabilities are similar.


----------



## mulveling

buzzlulu said:


> Silly question - does anyone have the dimensions of Birgir's stock Carbon (not the CC)?
> Silly question #2 - how hot do they run - can they be situated on a plastic table?  left on all day?
> 
> and while I am on a roll with silly questions - one of the advantages of solid state is no warmup like with Tubes - YET - I have seen people comment that the Carbon takes 30 minutes to come on song


All of the Stax "tube" amps are hybrids, so I doubt you'll find much meaning in trying to correlate warm-up times to the presence of tubes. In fact the BHSE is reputed to have the _longest _warm-up time, DIY T2 the shortest, and Carbon in the middle.


----------



## buzzlulu

When I refer to warmup time for tubes I guess I am associating it with pure tubes like the BHSE


----------



## JimL11

buzzlulu said:


> ...and while I am on a roll with silly questions - one of the advantages of solid state is no warmup like with Tubes - YET - I have seen people comment that the Carbon takes 30 minutes to come on song



Not really. Although solid state turns on immediately, it takes a while for the transistors to warm up their heat-sinks and reach steady state. If you disable the servo, you can measure the output voltages drift for up to 20-30 minutes until they reach equilibrium. This is easy to observe with the HeadAmp BHSE which does not have a servo - it is the reason that you are advised to adjust the output voltages after a couple hours.


----------



## JimL11 (Jun 26, 2018)

buzzlulu said:


> When I refer to warmup time for tubes I guess I am associating it with pure tubes like the BHSE



No, as @mulveling says, the BHSE is NOT pure tube, it has  solid state input and intermediate stages, and solid state constant current output loads, as well as solid state regulated power supply. The T2 DIY has both tube input and output stages, but a whole bunch of solid state components in between, and also has solid state constant current output loads and a solid state regulated power supply.

Tubes take 20-30 seconds for the filaments to warm up, but once the filament heats up the cathode, a tube's  capacitance and transconductance (the ability of an input voltage to modulate the output current) are relatively independent of temperature. This is not the case for transistors, where the parameters will change with temperature.


----------



## plinth

buzzlulu said:


> Silly question - does anyone have the dimensions of Birgir's stock Carbon (not the CC)?
> Silly question #2 - how hot do they run - can they be situated on a plastic table?  left on all day?
> 
> and while I am on a roll with silly questions - one of the advantages of solid state is no warmup like with Tubes - YET - I have seen people comment that the Carbon takes 30 minutes to come on song[/QUOTE
> Unfortunately I am also away from my Carbon at the moment but even if I leave it on ll night it does not get that hot, perhaps 50C underneath but surely nothing to bother a plastic table. I must confess that my ears are not good enough to detect a sonic difference from switch on to after 30 minutes. It sounded glorious from the moment I turned it on and thrills me anew every day.


----------



## buzzlulu (Jun 26, 2018)

Thanks for the replies.  Jim - a nice explanation as to what happens to the transistors during turn on and warm up.
I also like the reply from Plinth about "glorious from the moment I turned it on".

Interesting times in my house.  I am comparing the new 009S vs. my Utopias.
The Stax is "handicapped" by running out of a 353XBK
Same source for both as they are both plugged into my two channel system.

Its the "handicap" which is making the comparison difficult.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Not sure what you mean by difficult. But if you mean you are liking the utopia more, I think brain burn in is a factor. Maybe wait on judgment for a few weeks. 

A carbon or totl amp will improve pretty much all aspects of the 009s. Now will that be enough to unseat your current setup? That's totally subjective and unfortunately you will only know if you get try  them. 

Now if there is some inherent character of the headphone that you don't like no amp is going to change that(checking over my shoulder for @Whitigir and his T2 lurking)..


----------



## buzzlulu

SeaWo|f said:


> Not sure what you mean by difficult. But if you mean you are liking the utopia more, I think brain burn in is a factor. Maybe wait on judgment for a few weeks.
> 
> A carbon or totl amp will improve pretty much all aspects of the 009s. Now will that be enough to unseat your current setup? That's totally subjective and unfortunately you will only know if you get try  them.




The difficult part is that the 009S is handicapped by not being driven by a "proper" amplifier which will allow it to show what it is capable of.
The impressive thing is how well it is doing even with this handicap.  It is doing certain things better than what the Utopia can do.
I need to try and "imagine" what a Carbon will bring to the sound.  Weightiness is probably what is needed (the first thing which comes to my mind).  

I need someone to loan me a Carbon


----------



## Drewligarchy

buzzlulu said:


> Thanks for the replies.  Jim - a nice explanation as to what happens to the transistors during turn on and warm up.
> I also like the reply from Plinth about "glorious from the moment I turned it on".
> 
> Interesting times in my house.  I am comparing the new 009S vs. my Utopias.
> ...



buzzlulu - where are you located? If in the NYC area, you can hear my Carbon if I can hear your 009S


----------



## mulveling (Jun 26, 2018)

It's not just @Whitigir going on about the T2 lol. I've definitely heard Purk's T2 make the 007 Mk I, 009, and he90 all sound shockingly similar. To my ears, they all end up sounding close-ish to the 009's nature, but with a warmer smoother midrange (a lot like what I've now heard from the 009S out of "just" the BHSE/Carbon), plus with absolute maximization of: speed, detail, dynamics, and soundstage. All 3 of these headphones are at their best out of a T2. It'll be *really *interesting to hear the 009S out of a proper T2. I will someday soon be reveling in what I assume will become the new pinnacle of headphone sound: T2 + 009S.


----------



## aldavey

My 009's are for sale, best offer secures, PM if of interest.


----------



## tumpux

That's quick..


----------



## plinth

buzzlulu said:


> The difficult part is that the 009S is handicapped by not being driven by a "proper" amplifier which will allow it to show what it is capable of.
> The impressive thing is how well it is doing even with this handicap.  It is doing certain things better than what the Utopia can do.
> I need to try and "imagine" what a Carbon will bring to the sound.  Weightiness is probably what is needed (the first thing which comes to my mind).
> 
> I need someone to loan me a Carbon



My experience was similar. After having been aware of Stax for many years I finally arranged to spend a day with their ear speakers and drivers so I could see what the fuss was about. It was my purchase of the Shure KSE1500 that finally convinced me to pay much more attention to estats. I did not read much about them just turned up and secretly new I would be going home with the SR-009 and the SRM-T8000. The most expensive surely would be the best. That was my confirmation bias. No matter which way I tried to convince myself, the combination that I kept coming back to was the SRM-007 and the SR-007mk2. I was not bowled over as I had been expecting, there was not a sense of grip in the low end and whilst there was an incredible speed to the high end it did not quite have the twinkling delicacy I had hoped for. The T8000 did not move me at all, I think it calmed down the tizzy top end of the 009 but that made it a poor choice with the 007. So whilst I loved the 007 I just felt that it was being under-driven. I ordered the SRM-007 and set about researching a better way of driving them. 

I thought long and hard about the BHSE but in the end ordered a Mjölnir-Audio KGSSHV Carbon. Suddenly my 007s came to life. There was an intense grip on the low end that communicated so much information that I could see right into the timbre of transients, seeing how they decay and are attenuated. The top end has a sublime delicacy that only great reserves of power seem to afford. I just could not tear myself away each night and go to bed. I simply loved this combination.

So the question is given the tendency that has been documented here over the last few days to amplify very subtle improvements how big a deal is the Carbon over the 007? I will only spend money if the margin is significant enough to be abundantly clear. Thus I have never found an interconnect that sounds any different to any other. Literally, I have trialled £4000 cables and found it identical to a £20 cable. I have never heard a power lead that made a difference. Or an cat 5 cable or a Usb cable (other than those that crackle due to bad physical connections). I cannot hear a difference between my Chord Hugo 2 powered by external power or internal battery. I did choose my Chord DACs by setting up a double blind AB test and I chose the Chord 9 times out of 10 when the results were analysed.

So you may conclude that I am pretty deaf, but that does really help show what a big difference the Carbon makes.

The other point that is made is that after having dumped $5000 into a driver then it would be hard to admit that it was not touched by the hand of god. This week I decided to build a second system for another house so I considered the BHSE on sale here, the DIY T2 or a tiny Mjölnir-Audio KGSS that I could travel with. My concerns with the T2 was that I may not be able to tell the difference between it and the Carbon so I would feel foolish about the extra money but also it would be irritating should it go wrong and my having no ability to fix it. And ultimately, I just want to listen to great music and be moved by it and do not want a hobby. My Carbon has been rock solid and just delivers day in and day out. I am secure in the knowledge that should I have a problem help is just an Icelandic cod box away. So I bought another Carbon this week. I will wait until I hear the 009S before I buy another headphone, however.


----------



## Whitigir

plinth said:


> *My concerns with the T2 was that I may not be able to tell the difference between it and the Carbon *



I was once at this point of view on the journey.  But who cares ? The Journey is worth it, not the outcome, and so My T2 is up and alive in a few months.

You know what ? *The differences from T2 VS a Carbon or a Grounded Grid can be tell within 3 seconds.   I repeat “3 seconds”
*
That is how much different that it makes.  Ultimately, your pocket will be the decisive factor, but to *underestimate how much more a T2 can bring to the table ? Is foolish*, period.

That was my experiences, and your journey may tell you something else.  Again, it is the Journey, and not the outcome.


----------



## mulveling (Jun 27, 2018)

Yeah totally agree with @Whitigir , as usual. Once you get any of the Stax Omegas, you need to adopt an "amplifier first" philosophy, versus the ubiquitous "source first". If you can hear the difference going from a KGST/KGSShv to the Carbon/BHSE level, then you can hear that kind of upgrade impact all over again going to the T2.

All of these are very fine amps by the way. All of these can make for a superb system with 007, 009, or L700. I certainly wouldn't denigrate any of them. But, this IS summit-fi and all.


----------



## plinth

mulveling said:


> Yeah totally agree with @Whitigir , as usual. Once you get any of the Stax Omegas, you need to adopt an "amplifier first" philosophy, versus the ubiquitous "source first". If you can hear the difference going from a KGST/KGSShv to the Carbon/BHSE level, then you can hear that kind of upgrade impact all over again going to the T2.
> 
> All of these are very fine amps by the way. All of these can make for a superb system with 007, 009, or L700. I certainly wouldn't denigrate any of them. But, this IS summit-fi and all.





Whitigir said:


> I was once at this point of view on the journey.  But who cares ? The Journey is worth it, not the outcome, and so My T2 is up and alive in a few months.
> 
> You know what ? *The differences from T2 VS a Carbon or a Grounded Grid can be tell within 3 seconds.   I repeat “3 seconds”
> *
> ...



I am sure that you could tell the difference but I am not sure that I could. Perhaps I will hear a T2 some day and be grumpy for not getting one sooner. It is not really about the money, the T2 for sale is about the price of a return flight to the US and I do that several times a year. I assumed that the T2 was 110V so that was a factor. I guess if our ears resolve differently then we will Summit at different levels. The other problem is that my experience has shown me that I either hear things differently or most people in this industry are lying. I heard another estat energiser costing around the same as theT8000 and it was like the emperor’s new clothes. It was way behind the srm007, chopped off top end and yet it was described as the best choice. I wish I could remember its name, it was made in England and had just a letter as a model. Thus I will always welcome anyone who wants to try something that I have. I take the point that the Carbon is not summit fi,  but I still suspect that if I screw up my eyes I could see the summit from here.


----------



## mulveling (Jun 27, 2018)

It's DEFINITELY true that many in the industry lie and/or are shills. It's also DEFINITELY true there's a lot of really mediocre sounding, poorly engineered expensive gear - which is why you shouldn't stray from the amp recommendations of us experienced Stax aficionados without industry affiliations or ulterior motives (other than needing to spread the Stax bug).

Your words remind me of when I started out in head-fi (and for that matter, audiophillia) 16 years ago. I perused Headroom's amplifier lineup, ranging from $110 to $1600 at the time, and thought "I definitely won't be able to hear any difference beyond the $250 Little amp, so I certainly won't feel the need to spend more than that". How *wrong* that was. The amps of that day, below the $1000 mark, turned out to sound pretty crappy, btw.


----------



## georgep

plinth said:


> I am sure that you could tell the difference but I am not sure that I could. Perhaps I will hear a T2 some day and be grumpy for not getting one sooner. It is not really about the money, the T2 for sale is about the price of a return flight to the US and I do that several times a year. I assumed that the T2 was 110V so that was a factor. I guess if our ears resolve differently then we will Summit at different levels. The other problem is that my experience has shown me that I either hear things differently or most people in this industry are lying. I heard another estat energiser costing around the same as theT8000 and it was like the emperor’s new clothes. It was way behind the srm007, chopped off top end and yet it was described as the best choice. I wish I could remember its name, it was made in England and had just a letter as a model. Thus I will always welcome anyone who wants to try something that I have. I take the point that the Carbon is not summit fi,  but I still suspect that if I screw up my eyes I could see the summit from here.



Trilogy H1 by chance?


----------



## JimL11 (Jun 27, 2018)

plinth said:


> The other problem is that my experience has shown me that I either hear things differently or most people in this industry are lying. I heard another estat energiser costing around the same as theT8000 and it was like the emperor’s new clothes. It was way behind the srm007, chopped off top end and yet it was described as the best choice. I wish I could remember its name, it was made in England and had just a letter as a model. Thus I will always welcome anyone who wants to try something that I have.



You are most likely thinking of the Trilogy H1. According to internal photos and info, this is a all tube differential topology amplifier with no global feedback, using two 6C3pi single triode tubes and one 6H6pi dual triode output tube. Given that, the only possible topology is something like this:







TubeCAD has a similar circuit, which has been around since the 1980s, if not earlier.





Now, there is nothing wrong with that design, but it is the absolutely most minimal, cheap tube circuit design for driving stat headphones. I would liken it to the Dynaco Mk II, III, IV or Stereo 70 - that is, a simple but good budget circuit. In its day, the Stereo 70 cost about $140 assembled, which works out to around $1100 in today's money, and that is about what I would expect such a design to be worth. In fact, Schiit Audio at one point considered selling a similar design for less than $1000. Granted this doesn't include the cost of a remote control, but I doubt that the remote adds $4000 of value, and anyway, the notion that a headphone tied to an amp by an eight foot cord needs a remote seems rather silly to me.

Note that, looking at the internal photos, the Trilogy does not appear to have a regulated power supply, and it appears to use plate resistor output loads, so lacks any of the refinements of state of the art electrostatic amps designed since the 1990s. Given its technology, I would expect it to have about the same drive capability as any of Stax's tube output amps, which also use plate resistor loads, and lack the output drive capability of the Stax solid state amps, any of the Gilmore amps, or the SRX Plus.

In summary, the only thing state of the art about the Trilogy is its inflated price. IMHO, of course.


----------



## Contrails

Plinth, if I was in your shoes, I would get the T2. If you don't like it or think it wasn't worth it, you can always sell it off.  I doubt you will lose much on it considering the reputation that proceeds it.


----------



## aldavey

plinth said:


> I am sure that you could tell the difference but I am not sure that I could. Perhaps I will hear a T2 some day and be grumpy for not getting one sooner. It is not really about the money, the T2 for sale is about the price of a return flight to the US and I do that several times a year. I assumed that the T2 was 110V so that was a factor. I guess if our ears resolve differently then we will Summit at different levels. The other problem is that my experience has shown me that I either hear things differently or most people in this industry are lying. I heard another estat energiser costing around the same as theT8000 and it was like the emperor’s new clothes. It was way behind the srm007, chopped off top end and yet it was described as the best choice. I wish I could remember its name, it was made in England and had just a letter as a model. Thus I will always welcome anyone who wants to try something that I have. I take the point that the Carbon is not summit fi,  but I still suspect that if I screw up my eyes I could see the summit from here.


Strange thing going on im my mind now, having sold my Carbon to you and unable, for whatever reason


Contrails said:


> Plinth, if I was in your shoes, I would get the T2. If you don't like it or think it wasn't worth it, you can always sell it off.  I doubt you will lose much on it considering the reputation that proceeds it.


Having sold my Carbon in a moment of madness I think a Kerry T2 is the next level.


----------



## Whitigir

aldavey said:


> Strange thing going on im my mind now, having sold my Carbon to you and unable, for whatever reason
> 
> Having sold my Carbon in a moment of madness I think a Kerry T2 is the next level.


There you go! Once you go Stax, you never go Back!


----------



## HoloSpice

Stax SR-009S price $3825 lol....

https://www.facebook.com/pg/STAXJapan/shop/?rid=807810752589118&rt=6


----------



## AudioThief

Is the T2 / DIY T2 something that "anyone" could get their hands on? I thought the T2 was exceedingly rare and that you would need the know how yourself to get a DIY T2. Also interesting to hear that people consider it significantly better than carbon / BHSE.


----------



## Rhamnetin

AudioThief said:


> Is the T2 / DIY T2 something that "anyone" could get their hands on? I thought the T2 was exceedingly rare and that you would need the know how yourself to get a DIY T2. Also interesting to hear that people consider it significantly better than carbon / BHSE.



Definitely not. Very few Stax SRM-T2's were ever made, and it's such a complicated amp that few Stax fans DIY them and when they do, they sell for over $10k!

Also I am now officially back in the Stax club.



Spoiler












Don't get too excited though, that's just the regular SR-009 which we all know already.


----------



## joseph69

Can someone point me to the link where the T2 is for sale, please?
I've done a search, but can't seem to find it.
Thanks


----------



## Rhamnetin (Jun 27, 2018)

joseph69 said:


> Can someone point me to the link where the T2 is for sale, please?
> I've done a search, but can't seem to find it.
> Thanks



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ic-fs-diy-t2.881142/

I wonder what would win (to my ears at least), that vs a KGSSHV Carbon with DHT Emission Labs 20B-V4 circlotron output.


----------



## joseph69

@Rhamnetin 
Thank you.


----------



## plinth

georgep said:


> Trilogy H1 by chance?


Thanks, you are right it was. I had been trying to remember but I just kept thinking Preparation H. That is why.


----------



## plinth

JimL11 said:


> You are most likely thinking of the Trilogy H1. According to internal photos and info, this is a all tube differential topology amplifier with no global feedback, using two 6C3pi single triode tubes and one 6H6pi dual triode output tube. Given that, the only possible topology is something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for your insight. It was over £5000 and if you say that they did not sink loads into R&D it does seem to be preying on the gullible. I have not read any reviews on it, does the industry press like it? One thing that they seem to have done is rolled off the high frequencies quite dramatically. It was as if they 'voiced' it for the 009 as it certainly took the edge off, but it also killed a lot of what made the 009 special, its shimmering lightness seemed to have been smothered. It was terrible by any measure with the 007. I honestly cannot think of any aspect that it did better than the SRM-007 energiser. And I did not see much use for a remote for a device that I am physically connected with a headphone cable.


----------



## plinth

aldavey said:


> Strange thing going on im my mind now, having sold my Carbon to you and unable, for whatever reason
> 
> Having sold my Carbon in a moment of madness I think a Kerry T2 is the next level.


If you are having regrets then I would not hold you to the sale. If you are thinking of getting the T2 then I will be looking for an invitation.


----------



## Pahani

plinth said:


> If you are having regrets then I would not hold you to the sale. If you are thinking of getting the T2 then I will be looking for an invitation.


I salute your sense of honor, Sir!


----------



## aldavey

plinth said:


> If you are having regrets then I would not hold you to the sale. If you are thinking of getting the T2 then I will be looking for an invitation.


You're a gentleman and looking forward to delivering the Carbon to you in person. Having agreed the sale I unplugged the amp from my system and returned to my HD 800's - absolutely no comparison. I can't seem to sell my 009's even at £1500.00 so if I don't get any offers in the foreseeable future I will contact Kerry in NYC and see if he's willing to build a T2 for me. IMHO his iteration is extremely beautiful to behold, but it will probably be a year in the making.


----------



## SeaWo|f

My understanding is that Kerrys t2 is not just different in looks but is also updated vs the original design. I had heard that he updated it to current parts. Given the complexity of the amp I would not count on any ones willingness to take it on; especially since its filled with loads of obsolete parts. I would jump on a built one if i was in the market.


----------



## Whitigir

SeaWo|f said:


> My understanding is that Kerrys t2 is not just different in looks but is also updated vs the original design. I had heard that he updated it to current parts. Given the complexity of the amp I would not count on any ones willingness to take it on; especially since its filled with loads of obsolete parts. I would jump on a built one if i was in the market.


Kerry T2 is with newer parts, and he would take it on all day long


----------



## aldavey

Whitigir said:


> Kerry T2 is with newer parts, and he would take it on all day long


I was in touch with him last year after he had just completed his own T2, there were beautiful photos of it at the 'other' place. He is a charming person with which to deal and I'm sure I will be fine with him. I might just have to be patient which is fine.


----------



## Whitigir

aldavey said:


> I was in touch with him last year after he had just completed his own T2, there were beautiful photos of it at the 'other' place. He is a charming person with which to deal and I'm sure I will be fine with him. I might just have to be patient which is fine.



Well, he is your best shot at the newer T2 which has current parts for if anything go wrong.  If you want the original T2, then Contact @georgep .  Either way, the wait will be very painful, and the price is about or higher than that T2 listed for sale.  I would recommend grabbing it.


----------



## JimL11 (Jun 28, 2018)

plinth said:


> Thanks, you are right it was. I had been trying to remember but I just kept thinking Preparation H. That is why.



LMAO 



plinth said:


> Thanks for your insight. It was over £5000 and if you say that they did not sink loads into R&D it does seem to be preying on the gullible. I have not read any reviews on it, does the industry press like it? One thing that they seem to have done is rolled off the high frequencies quite dramatically. It was as if they 'voiced' it for the 009 as it certainly took the edge off, but it also killed a lot of what made the 009 special, its shimmering lightness seemed to have been smothered. It was terrible by any measure with the 007. I honestly cannot think of any aspect that it did better than the SRM-007 energiser. And I did not see much use for a remote for a device that I am physically connected with a headphone cable.



Well, according to the HiFI+ CanJam 2017 report, "Trilogy Audio always wanted to make an amplifier for the Stax electrostatic, but realised most designs simply use variations on the same circuit as Stax itself. After experimenting with such designs, Nic from Trilogy went fully Tabula Rasa and started with a completely clean sheet..." and "In listening tests, both AS and CM felt this is a paradigm shift in performance for the Stax SR-009."

As I said, given the description and tube complement, there is only one circuit topology that fits. Just amazing (NOT) that with a "completely clean sheet" they come up with a 30+ year old circuit design. I suppose it's possible they could have re-invented the budget wheel, but I would think that they would at least do a quick Google search. Does say something about the technical ignorance or gullibility of some of the audio press, though. BTW, astrostar59 did like it a bit more than you based on listening at CanJam London - see his comments in this thread from July 16, 2017 (see p.827).


----------



## Pokemonn (Jul 8, 2018)

Hi i just found a small cure for huge power consumption iMac 5K retina FYI.
I just tryid a bold gaged Luxman JPA-15000 power cord(which acctually made for 100W-1000W power amps.) for iMac 5K retina(about 120W power consumption), it much improved Stax HPs sound. surprised.
now any Stax HPs sounded much smoother and very musical.
I googled local sites which reported stock imac power cable is not so good. it sounds light/thin/bright etc. they said.
I measured iMac 5K retina power consumption by PS Audio power plant P3. it rapidly dynamicaly moving between about 80W-120W even when i dont touch mouse/keyboard.
Digital signals are accutually high FREQ analog signals. uneducated poeple dont know this simple fact. maybe iMac acts like big Class D power amp. so bold gaged power cords make diffrence? maybe.

hope this someones help.

cheers!

EDIT; i have read an interesting article which conclude directly out of walloutlet(cheapest) sounds best.
http://site2913.com/music/dtm-power/  (in japanese)


----------



## bmichels

The Portable STAX DAC/Amp is finaly available.  May be this is the first Stax AMP that is of interest to me : My BHSE at home and this one during long WK...

pictures from STAX's Facebook page :


----------



## padam

Seems like a considerable improvement over the SRM-252S, same voltage output voltage as the SRM-353X, but probably not as good.


----------



## Rhamnetin

I might buy one.


----------



## Jones Bob

Anyone heard it yet?


----------



## Pokemonn

I havent. not sold in Japan yet. I love that warmy VU meter!


----------



## bearFNF

Pokemonn said:


> I havent. not sold in Japan yet. I love that warmy VU meter!


LOL



And ROFL, um priorities people...just sayin'


----------



## mulveling

Yep I lol'd hard at the "extra enjoyment" meters from the original posting of this ad copy. Like damn, I'd better ask my T2 builder if we can work in a couple meters for more extra enjoyment! I'd hate to be left out of the fun.


----------



## Pokemonn (Jun 29, 2018)

LOL extra enjoyment is not bad thing at least i guess.
my DEQ2496 has digital LCD VU meter but it still digital, not analog meter, taste less a bit.


----------



## purk

mulveling said:


> Yep I lol'd hard at the "extra enjoyment" meters from the original posting of this ad copy. Like damn, I'd better ask my T2 builder if we can work in a couple meters for more extra enjoyment! I'd hate to be left out of the fun.



Every audiophile should be jealous of your audio room dude!


----------



## Contrails

https://www.yoycart.com/Product/44186651831/

This is interesting.  Or is this already old news?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

bmichels said:


> The Portable STAX DAC/Amp is finaly available.  May be this is the first Stax AMP that is of interest to me : My BHSE at home and this one during long WK...
> 
> pictures from STAX's Facebook page :


Too bad there's no line out, with pass-thru function depending on the selected source (dac or line in).

Ali


----------



## JimL11

bmichels said:


> The Portable STAX DAC/Amp is finaly available.  May be this is the first Stax AMP that is of interest to me : My BHSE at home and this one during long WK...
> 
> pictures from STAX's Facebook page :



Interesting, although the added enjoyment from a dancing meter (I assume it's the needle that is dancing) cracks me up. So, this consumes 35 watts, whereas the SRM353 consumes 30 watts, and both have the same output voltage limit. I'm guessing that the DAC uses a few watts, so the output power is probably similar to the 353. Looks like the box is smaller than a 353 so probably runs hotter.


----------



## tabness

Can someone please help me gather all the revisions of the Omega line (SR-Omega, SR-007, SR-007A/MK II, SR-009, SR-009S)? I know that revisions exist but I do not know exactly how many of them per model as well as all the differences between them (drivers, tuning, materials, cosmetic, etc) as well as which years and serial number ranges delineate between them.

SR-Omega (1993-1995) - two revisions?

SR-007 (1998-2007) - two revisions?

SR-007A/MK II (2007-present) - multiple revisions?

SR-009 (2011-present) - ?

SR-009S (2018-present)


----------



## JimL11 (Jul 10, 2018)

tabness said:


> Can someone please help me gather all the revisions of the Omega line (SR-Omega, SR-007, SR-007A/MK II, SR-009, SR-009S)? I know that revisions exist but I do not know exactly how many of them per model as well as all the differences between them (drivers, tuning, materials, cosmetic, etc) as well as which years and serial number ranges delineate between them.
> 
> SR-Omega (1993-1995) - two revisions?
> 
> ...



Sorry, there is no"official" info on this. Stax has never admitted to any revisions other than original SR-007 vs. SR-007MkII/A. Most of the info was posted on this thread by spritzer, who no longer posts here, about the SR007, his favored phone, so you'll have to dig it out yourself. Some of it was abstracted by Tyll Hertsens on the InnerFidelity website in his SR-007 review.

Supposedly the best sounding SR007 variants are the early 007 and the recent (since 2015 or so) SR-007MkII with port mod. AFAIK nobody has reported any significant variants in the Sr-009, except obviously for the SR-009S.


----------



## mulveling

I've heard three 009, spanning a few years of manufacture dates, and they were all extremely consistent with each other - I'd be very surprised if there was an unannounced revision by Stax, or any significant sonic discrepancy that wasn't caused by pad condition or defects (e.g. driver imbalance).


----------



## padam

There was a very early SR009 revision, where the circular plate surrounding the transducers was different (it is visibly yellow in the later ones if you look at the grill towards the edges) and about 1.5 years ago there were two revisions to the wooden box as well (now identical to the SR-009S box), they may have improved the headband mounts.
Probably no changes in terms of sound quality though.


----------



## SeaWo|f

If I remember correctly in his carbon review Bob Katz also talked about this a bit.


----------



## Whitigir

Buy a Stax sr-009 every other month, and you would be able to tell upto probably 10 revisions  , LoL, just kidding


----------



## Contrails

Stax seems to make more revisions to their headphones than Beckham changing his boots.

On a side note, my 007 mk1 are still in transit from Germany to New Zealand with Deutschland post.  It's been 2 weeks. German efficiency seems to be on the decline these days, must be the aftermath of the World Cup performance.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Despite all of these revisions a consistently reliable 009 family of headphones is still elusive..


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 11, 2018)

Contrails said:


> Stax seems to make more revisions to their headphones than Beckham changing his boots.
> 
> On a side note, my 007 mk1 are still in transit from Germany to New Zealand with Deutschland post.  It's been 2 weeks. German efficiency seems to be on the decline these days, must be the aftermath of the World Cup performance.



That is what opened border do to you  lol, joking ofcourse.  Revisions are just circulated around by words of mouths, no official announcements.  The variety of anything man-made are always there and existed anyways


----------



## TominJapan

Hi sorry if this is not the right place to post. I bought this SRM-313 on Yahoo Japan and was wondering if I need/ should or should not convert the voltage to 100 Volts (I currently live in the US).
The labels are somehow confusing; it was previously used in Japan so I am not sure what to do with the 117V markings ....
I do not want to damage the amp, if someone knows how to check what voltage would work this would be really appreciated (!)
And sorry if this was already asked plenty of times but I did search and did not really find the answer 
Thanks !


----------



## JimL11

Yes, you need to convert it to 117 volts, because the Japanese AC voltage (100V) is lower than the US (120V), so if you plug it into a US AC socket, the internal voltages will be 20% higher, which could damage the electronics. I think the way to do it is to carefully pry off the plastic covering with the arrow (which is pointing down), turn it 180 degrees so the arrow is pointing up instead of down, and then plug it back in.


----------



## kevin gilmore

after removing the 2 screws and the cover


----------



## TominJapan

Thanks will give it a try


----------



## Olschl

TominJapan said:


> Hi sorry if this is not the right place to post. I bought this SRM-313 on Yahoo Japan and was wondering if I need/ should or should not convert the voltage to 100 Volts (I currently live in the US).
> The labels are somehow confusing; it was previously used in Japan so I am not sure what to do with the 117V markings ....
> I do not want to damage the amp, if someone knows how to check what voltage would work this would be really appreciated (!)
> And sorry if this was already asked plenty of times but I did search and did not really find the answer
> Thanks !


How was it buying from Yahoo Japan? I've been interested in a few items; but I'm not sure I trust the site.


----------



## TominJapan

Quite easy actually, I would say though that buying on ebay from Japanese sellers is about equivalent and probably easier overall, YMMV obviously


----------



## tabness

So I'm trying to get my first Stax setup and I have pretty much settled on the 009S earspeaker to begin with (I would also want to pick up a vintage Omega or 007 MK I eventually to complement it if I can find a good condition one).

I know the general recommendation here would be to go with HeadAmp or Mjolnir Audio or just DIY but I do want to stay with a official Stax amp to begin with (also for cost and space reasons). I was mainly considering the SRM-353X, but is it worth paying extra to spring up for the SRM-727 II? I do not listen very loud at all and I have heard that the 009 (and thus apparently the 009S) are a bit easier to drive than the 007. 

Unfortunately I cannot find any local place to audition this for myself so your feedback would be very helpful.


----------



## 336881

Olschl said:


> How was it buying from Yahoo Japan? I've been interested in a few items; but I'm not sure I trust the site.



Try Zenmarket.jp. For a small fee they will bid on items for you with many thousands of positive feedback. For anything over 30kg.'s aka. Power amps and Speakers Hifido.jp is who you want to buy from.


----------



## padam (Jul 12, 2018)

tabness said:


> So I'm trying to get my first Stax setup and I have pretty much settled on the 009S earspeaker to begin with (I would also want to pick up a vintage Omega or 007 MK I eventually to complement it if I can find a good condition one).
> 
> I know the general recommendation here would be to go with HeadAmp or Mjolnir Audio or just DIY but I do want to stay with a official Stax amp to begin with (also for cost and space reasons). I was mainly considering the SRM-353X, but is it worth paying extra to spring up for the SRM-727 II? I do not listen very loud at all and I have heard that the 009 (and thus apparently the 009S) are a bit easier to drive than the 007.
> 
> Unfortunately I cannot find any local place to audition this for myself so your feedback would be very helpful.



The 353X is very neutral. The 727II is more powerful but not as linear.
It has an 'interesting, tube-like' coloration, which might work quite well at lower listening levels. That also makes it quite bland. However, it becomes uncontrolled in the bass once the volume is pushed higher, and the highs can sound rolled off, albeit that also makes it somewhat less fatiguing with the SR-009.
With a simple mod, the global feedback can be reinstated to sound more like a 'proper' solid-state amp. In that case it will sound much closer to the 323X with a bit of added power, although still slightly warmer.
Some say the highs are a bit metallic and unrefined even after the mod, but with my current DAC, I haven't really heard that.


----------



## elira

Just got an SRD-5 with a pair of SR-3. As far as I understand this thing is very old like from the 70s, it works fine, but I see that it has two 1uF electrolytic capacitors. Should I replace them or just leave it running until it dies?


----------



## JimL11

elira said:


> Just got an SRD-5 with a pair of SR-3. As far as I understand this thing is very old like from the 70s, it works fine, but I see that it has two 1uF electrolytic capacitors. Should I replace them or just leave it running until it dies?



The 1 uf caps are for the bias supply, and they should be replaced. Otherwise there is nothing in there that should go bad. They are polarized, so make sure the replacements have the same polarity, and also make sure they have the same voltage rating.


----------



## hpeter

Whitigir said:


> There you go! Once you go Stax, you never go Back!


a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y


----------



## tabness

padam said:


> The 353X is very neutral. The 727II is more powerful but not as linear.
> It has an 'interesting, tube-like' coloration, which might work quite well at lower listening levels. That also makes it quite bland. However, it becomes uncontrolled in the bass once the volume is pushed higher, and the highs can sound rolled off, albeit that also makes it somewhat less fatiguing with the SR-009.
> With a simple mod, the global feedback can be reinstated to sound more like a 'proper' solid-state amp. In that case it will sound much closer to the 323X with a bit of added power, although still slightly warmer.
> Some say the highs are a bit metallic and unrefined even after the mod, but with my current DAC, I haven't really heard that.



Thanks bud this is very helpful. Looks like I'm going to go with the 353X to start with and see if there is an upgrade path to a non Stax amp (most likely the KGSShv Carbon).


----------



## mulveling

I'd hesitate to call amps like the KGSShv, Carbon, KGST, SRX-Plus, and Blue Hawaii "non-Stax amps". I think of them more like: "Stax as god intended".


----------



## Rhamnetin

I suppose he literally meant not branded/designed by Stax. Can just say Kevin Gilmore designed amps too. I've never actually listened to a Stax headphone out of a Stax branded/made amp haha.


----------



## nanosword

is it good to start with Mjolnir Carbon not CC or I should go with CC


----------



## Rhamnetin

nanosword said:


> is it good to start with Mjolnir Carbon not CC or I should go with CC



I went with the non-CC. Personally I just doubt I'd hear much difference. The CC has an improved power supply, better wiring, better volume control, not sure what else. Can't go wrong with either, but if you're at all budget minded then the regular one probably makes the most sense.


----------



## SeaWo|f (Jul 15, 2018)

nanosword said:


> is it good to start with Mjolnir Carbon not CC or I should go with CC


OCD level should/will determine this choice.

The full size chassis might run a bit cooler, so depending on your setup that may also be a factor.

Edit:: he is also using the encapsulated transformers from tordy.pl now if I am not mistaken. I think some early CCs got rcores. IDK the reason for the switch.


----------



## buzzlulu

I went back and forth with Birgir about the differences between the two.  In the end I ended up going with his advice and chose a normal Carbon.
That is what he uses for his personal amplifier.
Mine has been bench testing since Friday and should be shipping from Iceland tomorrow


----------



## plinth

tabness said:


> Thanks bud this is very helpful. Looks like I'm going to go with the 353X to start with and see if there is an upgrade path to a non Stax amp (most likely the KGSShv Carbon).



Did you notice that a 353X popped up in the amps for sale section in this site.

If you are open to going second hand then do consider the KG designed amps that often crop up for sale. My Mjölnir-Audio Carbon puts a smile on my face every day (well, actually both my Mjölnir-Audio Carbons put a smile on my face) yet I really did not like the Stax T8000. My used carbon was half the price of a new T8000. I use them with an 007MK2.


----------



## walakalulu

Could somebody please summarise the main sonic differences between the BHSE and Mjolners carbon with the 009’s as I would have to buy blind as no demo available. Thanks. I’ve tried Stax (meh) and Trilogy (better but severe high frequency roll off).


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Looks like carbon hits harder in the bass and has more extension, whereas BHSE has sweeter mids (but not as sweet as the T2).
Carbon is a no brainer / plug and play of an amp, BHSE is a tube amp without servo, offset drifting from 20/30v to 0, takes 1h to 2h to be fully stabilized (don't know if one may hear it).
Of course, tube rolling on BHSE. But there are not so much EL34 / 6CA7 references out there, and available ones are well documented on head-fi's thread ( check @TheAttorney posts among others).
Carbon look / finish depends on builder, HeadAmp's BHSE is not really DIY, and may be one of the best looking / built piece of audio gear in the headphones realm.
The latter reason is the main one that made me chose the BHSE, but all the other reasons listed above could point to Carbon.

Other solution : finding or commissionning some DIY T2. And you'll be done with it 

Ali


----------



## Rhamnetin

Only thing about the T2 is that it costs around the same as a BHSE and a Carbon combined.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Indeed.

Ali


----------



## mulveling

You won't find another component with the BHSE's level of engineering, fit, finish, aesthetic, and build quality _anywhere_ else in audio for that $6K - not just headphones' realm.
I have to have those tube mids. That's why I stuck with the BHSE over Carbon.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Also the warm up time with a BHSE is not a big factor, at least not with the mjolnir one. It reaches thermal stability in under an hour and is fine to listen to from power up. This like baising to the MV is overstated.


----------



## Rhamnetin

I do have a tender spot in my heart for a purple HeadAmp BHSE, but I managed to resist.


----------



## SeaWo|f

The purple is a sexy color so was the one off sea foam green. 

In addition to the benefit to the mids having the el34 in there gives you another tool in your chain to tweak your systems sound.


----------



## paradoxper

Just pursue the T2. Find Kerry. End your game with all the fit and finish of a BHSE. Job done.


----------



## 336881

mulveling said:


> You won't find another component with the BHSE's level of engineering, fit, finish, aesthetic, and build quality _anywhere_ else in audio for that $6K - not just headphones' realm.
> I have to have those tube mids. That's why I stuck with the BHSE over Carbon.



I don't know about that. In their own way I put ECP (Doug) and Apex/Classic Headroom (Pete) right up there with Headamp (Justin). I like the looks of Doug's amps the best, the sound of Pete's amps the best and Justin's amps in the middle of both. Mostly though it depends on the headphone I'm listening with HD800 (Doug and Pete) vs. 007/009 (Justin).

Yes I know Gsx-mk2. A wonderful amp. Just for the HD800 I prefer offerings from Apex and ECP.


----------



## Rhamnetin (Jul 16, 2018)

I would have liked Pete to design a more affordable OTC tube amp (as in below Pinnacle but above Peak/Volcano), but that ship has sailed for me. I agree about the HD 800 and GS-X Mk2 pairing: technically excellent but the GS-X Mk2 doesn't care to alter the headphone's characteristics really. That's why I love the GS-X Mk2 but the HD 800 needs to be heavily colored by tubes for me to enjoy it.


----------



## mulveling (Jul 16, 2018)

Doug’s amps (ECP Audio) are treasures, but I still wouldn’t put the cosmetics and build on the same level as BHSE. What HeadAmp did with this piece is special. I think a lot of high-end stereo guys would love to have an integrated amp that looks like this - in fact that's what it often gets confused for when 2ch guys see its pics out of context.


Rhamnetin said:


> I do have a tender spot in my heart for a purple HeadAmp BHSE, but I managed to resist.


Man, they're almost all favorites for me. Seafoam green is really stunning, but purple, blue, and champagne are all awesome too. And of course all the various blacks/silvers are very classy. I wish HeadAmp sold a 3 or 4 pack of faceplates so we could roll those too lol.


----------



## dude5OO (Jul 17, 2018)

Checkimg in. Owned an ixys KGssHV a couple years ago and loved it with 009. Had an L300 323s last year and i'll regraduate to 727a with feedback mod soon. Eventually i will get around to benchtopping a KG amp. Any color in Justin's BHSE is gorgeous though my wallet sometimes tingles yearning for days bygone where it began at 5k for dACT model..


----------



## oneguy

paradoxper said:


> Just pursue the T2. Find Kerry. End your game with all the fit and finish of a BHSE. Job done.


Agreed. I’m looking to go this route with Kerry and call it a day.


----------



## tumpux

The ultimate end game would be butlering in Dr Gilmore's Manor..


----------



## tabness

plinth said:


> Did you notice that a 353X popped up in the amps for sale section in this site.
> 
> If you are open to going second hand then do consider the KG designed amps that often crop up for sale. My Mjölnir-Audio Carbon puts a smile on my face every day (well, actually both my Mjölnir-Audio Carbons put a smile on my face) yet I really did not like the Stax T8000. My used carbon was half the price of a new T8000. I use them with an 007MK2.



Thanks for the heads up, it is European voltage unfortunately. I'm thinking I will just pick up the limited edition black 353X in the hopes it may keep its resale value better in case I ever want to change to some of recommendations here.

Exactly what are people hearing on some of the non Stax amps that is so much better than the Stax amps (besides being able to go louder while keeping good sound)? I've read that the bass improves. Anything else? I don't listen very loud at all, so am I correct in understanding that I may not even be needing the higher voltages that some of the non Stax amps provide?

In looking this up in quite some detail, most people here and on other places clearly tend to prefer the same set of non Stax made amps. While it is good to get that majority impression, another majority impression for many people here is that amplification in general improves the sound quality of dynamic headphones as well and yet that has not been my (admittedly limited) experience at all as I cannot tell the difference beyond simply going louder (and I am no audio objectivist and I actually want to perceive the differences people passionately describe). Admittedly, all of the headphones I have tried are of lower impedance (less than 100 ohms).

It really sucks that I cannot audition any of these for myself...


----------



## plinth

tabness said:


> Thanks for the heads up, it is European voltage unfortunately. I'm thinking I will just pick up the limited edition black 353X in the hopes it may keep its resale value better in case I ever want to change to some of recommendations here.
> 
> Exactly what are people hearing on some of the non Stax amps that is so much better than the Stax amps (besides being able to go louder while keeping good sound)? I've read that the bass improves. Anything else? I don't listen very loud at all, so am I correct in understanding that I may not even be needing the higher voltages that some of the non Stax amps provide?
> 
> ...



I see, I did not realise that Stax did not provide double windings to allow voltage changes. 

I also do not listen very loud but I find that the more power seems to allow the speakers to play more delicately, more effortlessly and with a greater sense of engagement. I had never heard Stax stats before and actually I was a touch underwhelmed listening to the 009 and 007 with the srm 007t mk2 and the T8000. I hate to be harsh but they seemed polite, the 007t was not offensive but I did not feel that my life had been changed. 

Birgir's Carbon plays with exquisite finesse, great mass to the transients but with no overhang or bloom. The hairs stand up on the back of my neck like with live music. There have been many times that I just cannot stop listening to music and go to bed. I am not an audio hobbyist so do not really know the terms, nor do I really discern soundstage as others clearly do, but my Carbons seem to have a grip on the music, and a sense of integrity. They move me in a way the Stax amps did not. 

 From what I have picked up people may rate the 353X higher than the 007t, and I have a friend who loves his 353 with his 009 so I doubt you could hate the sound that you will get from that combination. You may want to find a way to hear a KG amp before you make a final decision. Even if it involves investing in an airline ticket. By the way, where are you based?


----------



## paradoxper

oneguy said:


> Agreed. I’m looking to go this route with Kerry and call it a day.



You won't be disappointed.


----------



## tabness

plinth said:


> I see, I did not realise that Stax did not provide double windings to allow voltage changes.
> 
> I also do not listen very loud but I find that the more power seems to allow the speakers to play more delicately, more effortlessly and with a greater sense of engagement. I had never heard Stax stats before and actually I was a touch underwhelmed listening to the 009 and 007 with the srm 007t mk2 and the T8000. I hate to be harsh but they seemed polite, the 007t was not offensive but I did not feel that my life had been changed.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your impressions. Especially the T8000.

I'm in Seattle. the only audio dealer I know of that even advertises Stax as one of their offerings is Experience Audio (http://www.experienceaudio.com/) and they never responded to my email on their amp selection.


----------



## ahmedie

I just notice that there are another patch of stax l300 limited in-stock in various shops it is great headphone for price !


----------



## CT007 (Jul 20, 2018)

ahmedie said:


> I just notice that there are another patch of stax l300 limited in-stock in various shops it is great headphone for price !


When I bought mine last month, it was only #249/800.


----------



## Rhamnetin (Jul 21, 2018)

Ah... just got my KGSSHV Carbon. First time listening to Stax in over a year (using an SR-009). Right away I am blown away by the realism and transparency. I don't think any headphone from any other brand comes close. Not the LCD-4, not the Code-6, nothing. Glad to be back!


----------



## Whitigir

Rhamnetin said:


> Ah... just got my KGSSHV Carbon. First time listening to Stax in over a year (using an SR-009). Right away I am blown away by the realism and transparency. I don't think any headphone from any other brand comes close. Glad to be back!


 
Congratulation! And again welcome to the Stax Club ! Stax On!


----------



## Trance_Gott

When it would have the punch and slam of the LCD4 the only way would be Stax!


----------



## Rhamnetin (Jul 21, 2018)

Trance_Gott said:


> When it would have the punch and slam of the LCD4 the only way would be Stax!



Yeah, then it'd be perfect. Or if the LCD-4 had Stax-like treble. But I'm guessing both are impossible.

What mildly surprises me is that I prefer the SR-009 over all the planars I've owned for rap (therefore for every genre). I just can't give up its clarity/transparency for more bass slam and more sub ~30 Hz bass.

...and I still can't get over how Birgir's KGSSHV Carbon is at least as small in overall dimensions as my previous KGSS.

Going from top tier dynamic or even planar magnetic headphones like the LCD-4 and LFF Code-6 to the SR-009 is a bigger upgrade to me as going from a Sennheiser HD 598 tier headphone to the likes of the HiFiMan Sundara or HE-500. To my ears, a top notch Stax system just makes all other headphone systems sound muffled (to varying degrees) and fake in comparison.

Even the worst quality files in my collection sound better. Veils have been lifted, hearing things I never heard before in literally every song. SR-009 is good enough to me, goodbye all other headphones lol.


----------



## bmichels (Jul 21, 2018)

At CanJam London I compared today the 009s and the Mr speaker Voce, and I believe I prefer ... the 009s. 

But booth are very good.  To me the Voce sound like a «  better 007 ».  So it depend on your taste. 

Any one want to tell which he prefers ?


----------



## VRacer-111 (Jul 21, 2018)

Here's my STAX L300 Ltd system in action - of course the audio quality is not what it actually sounds like...but hey, just a system 'demo'...



And I'm using the FLAC download of this track:


----------



## statfi

bmichels said:


> At CanJam London I compared today the 009s and the Mr speaker Voce, and I believe I prefer ... the 009s.


Vielen Dank.  Did you mean the SRM-009 or SRM-009s?  (I have used "009s" to mean the SRM-009, for years, but now, that Stax has usurped my nomenclature I personally am struggling  to adapt !-)


----------



## VRacer-111

Wouldn't the new flagship be SR-009S (capital 's') ? ... '009s' would mean multiple or that version of the previous generation -009.


----------



## Aurlieus

kylev said:


> This is continuation from my earlier post sometime back on Oct when I compared few Stax amps here , still part of the journey to try other Stax amp, this time round is the
> VE Amp Enterprise E Lite
> *
> Short Impressions on VE Amp Enterprise E Lite*
> ...


Hi! 

A very interesting and different review of an amp no one really knows much about, so, naturally my interest in piqued. Do you still have the amp or have you returned it? If so, how does the Carbon compare with your short time with the Venture electrostatic? Really interested to try this out as a (gulp!) budget amp with my SR-007 Mkii and, hopefully, a new pair of SR-009. 
Cheers!


----------



## mulveling

Rhamnetin said:


> Ah... just got my KGSSHV Carbon. First time listening to Stax in over a year (using an SR-009). Right away I am blown away by the realism and transparency. I don't think any headphone from any other brand comes close. Not the LCD-4, not the Code-6, nothing. Glad to be back!


Congrats! Now you fully understand our disease, and the need to spread it!


----------



## statfi

VRacer-111 said:


> Wouldn't the new flagship be SR-009S (capital 's') ? ... '009s' would mean multiple or that version of the previous generation -009.


Thanks for correcting my typos (the 'M's).  And, yes, capitalization could be the distinguisher: subtle but effective.


----------



## oneguy (Jul 22, 2018)

mulveling said:


> Congrats! Now you fully understand our disease, and the need to spread it!



‘tis a virulent strain that take over your life.

Now for a robot chicken analogy. (Replace heroin with non-stats)


----------



## oneguy

.


----------



## indrakula

Received D10(Amazon JP) and L300 Limited. Pairing is good and volume is loud on 90%. With sony wm1a, the power via usb dac is good but with ios devices we need to max the volume on both ios and d10. Soon will try with Pc using DAC. I am happy with this pairing as it is portable and i also manage to find carrying case for L300L, need to remove some foam pieces to fit them in. Photos attached...


----------



## buzzlulu

Photos of the L300 case please?  Thanks


----------



## 336881 (Jul 22, 2018)

mulveling said:


> Doug’s amps (ECP Audio) are treasures, but I still wouldn’t put the cosmetics and build on the same level as BHSE. What HeadAmp did with this piece is special. I think a lot of high-end stereo guys would love to have an integrated amp that looks like this - in fact that's what it often gets confused for when 2ch guys see its pics out of context.



ECP is one thing. 2 channel I think you are going to have a much more uphill battle. The bhse looks lovely but there is not much competing with the Sansui black of my C-2301 or the giant vu meters in my SE-A100. To each their own but I think my 2 pieces look much better. Fully refurbished by my stereo tech., both pieces, less than half a bhse.

While the C-2301 had a much better jpy to usd ratio when it was sold, inflation eats that up fast and it kind of was damn near the price of a bhse when new back in the mid to late 80's.


----------



## Contrails

The SR007 MK1 have finally arrived! They sound fabulous out the KGST.  I wouldn't call them dark, but oh man that bass hits hard and has this amazing texture to it.   The sound can be described as really smooth and detailed at the same time.  They are a clear step above the L700.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Contrails said:


> The SR007 MK1 have finally arrived! They sound fabulous out the KGST.  I wouldn't call them dark, but oh man that bass hits hard and has this amazing texture to it.   The sound can be described as really smooth and detailed at the same time.  They are a clear step above the L700.



Congrats! I just hope you don't have any severe issues with the SR-007Mk1's cable entry, since that's a known physical weak spot for it if I recall correctly.

Also how do you guys stop listening to your Stax setups? It's really difficult to do so...


----------



## Contrails

> I just hope you don't have any severe issues with the SR-007Mk1's cable entry, since that's a known physical weak spot for it if I recall correctly.



That's my biggest worry.


----------



## mulveling (Jul 22, 2018)

I never had a problem with my Mk I, though to be fair I didn't own it much longer than a year or 2. I was always extremely careful never to snag or pull on the cable, very careful tucking into the box; I felt like it wouldn't become an issue with that level of care. This extends from the care, procedure, and mindset I always have to exercise around my $$$$ phono cartridges, especially when drinking during a listening session 

Glad you enjoy the 007! Honestly I kinda preferred the L700, but they are quite different and my friend Cory (he has fantastic ears) shared your view that the 007 is much superior.


----------



## Contrails

> I never had a problem with my Mk I, though to be fair I didn't own it much longer than a year or 2. I was always extremely careful never to snag or pull on the cable, very careful tucking into the box; I felt like it wouldn't become an issue with that level of care. This extends from the care, procedure, and mindset I always have to exercise around my $$$$ phono cartridges, especially when drinking during a listening session



This is not gonna be easy considering I just wanna get up and dance while listening to them.  

The treble on the L700 was a little hot for my ears.  They were plugged into a 353X, maybe a better amp would have sorted that out.


----------



## VRacer-111

Not exactly the same as an L700, but my modded L300 Ltd (L700 pads and headband arc) did noticeably improve going from SRM-323S to the Mjolnir SRD-7 and NAD C 275BEE stereo amp setup... mainly in bass impact/presence, overall dynamics, and fullness of sound, but the highs also smoothed out a little.


----------



## Whitigir

Rhamnetin said:


> Also how do you guys stop listening to your Stax setups? It's really difficult to do so...



Everything else sounds boring in comparison to Stax  .  There is no helping it ! Stax On!


----------



## soren_brix

Rhamnetin said:


> Congrats! I just hope you don't have any severe issues with the SR-007Mk1's cable entry, since that's a known physical weak spot for it if I recall correctly.
> 
> Also how do you guys stop listening to your Stax setups? It's really difficult to do so...





Contrails said:


> That's my biggest worry.



Probably no need to worry about that.
If it happens at some point, a replacement cable can be had from ElectroMod in UK at some 95GBP and any skilled tech will be able to replace within 30min.


----------



## Contrails (Jul 23, 2018)

Thanks for the tip Soren.  Btw, the KGST you built makes the sr007 sound wonderful.



> Everything else sounds boring in comparison to Stax  . There is no helping it ! Stax On!



I spent the entire afternoon listening to the SR007. In the evening I finally got my arse to work. I work as a pilot.  So when I got in the aircraft and put the Bose headset on and started writing down clearances and weather reports, I straight away thought that the headset was broken - it was sounding very muffled and distorted.  A new headset was needed.  We had to delay the boarding till an engineer brought in a replacement.  Meanwhile, I decided to try the other pilot's headset.  Oh crap I said, this one sounds broken too! Thats when it dawned on me and I started smiling.  The other pilot looked at me confused.  I told him it must be my hearing today but in my mind I finally realised that everything sounds broken in comparison to Stax.  The new headset came and I pretended it sounded a lot better.  We were finally on our way.


----------



## indrakula (Jul 23, 2018)

buzzlulu said:


> Photos of the L300 case please?  Thanks





buzzlulu said:


> Photos of the L300 case please?  Thanks


I tried to upload again, pls. let me knwo if you can see the photos ?


----------



## buzzlulu

Perfect
Thanks


----------



## florence (Jul 23, 2018)

Hello all,

I have SR-507/SRM-310 combination and I wonder what Stax amp I should look after if I upgrade this combo? I love how SR-507 sounds with this amp but you know, we all want to upgrade our units somehow. The only Stax combo I have auditoned to date beside mine was SR-009/SRM-006ts. That was really unmusical, very thin sound unexpectedly. Since I still feel that 507/310 has harmonious sounding combo, 507/006ts may suit better. I'm satisfied with SR-507, I'd like to upgrade the amp only. You tell me the most suitable amp with it maybe. 

Thanks.


----------



## Whitigir

Sr-009 can easily sound thin, it is not easy to drive Sr-009 to a correct satisfying level really.  But it is possible


----------



## Rhamnetin

Whitigir said:


> Sr-009 can easily sound thin, it is not easy to drive Sr-009 to a correct satisfying level really.  But it is possible



Yeah I just wanted to say... hook up an SR-009 to a top tier amp and it will make just about all other headphones sound thin in comparison.

I actually can't even imagine a thin sounding SR-009 since I have only ever used it out of a Carbon, BHSE, and WES. The WES made it muddy compared to the other two but not thin.


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 23, 2018)

Rhamnetin said:


> Yeah I just wanted to say... hook up an SR-009 to a top tier amp and it will make just about all other headphones sound thin in comparison.
> 
> I actually can't even imagine a thin sounding SR-009 since I have only ever used it out of a Carbon, BHSE, and WES. The WES made it muddy compared to the other two but not thin.



IMO, Carbon can make SR-009 sound too fast and thin depend on current setting (it is just me and my experiences).  I heavily prefer tubes stage for sr009.  But that is personal preferences as I have seen people who can’t stand tubes tone, and loving carbon+009 

Also, I am reading CanJam impression now.  It seems many people are reporting sr009S to be having vocal more upfront than Sr-009, which I don’t observe the same way with KG T2.  This makes me thinking that SR-009S is harder to drive than Sr-009 despite it fancy electrodes and so on ? I know I did say that the bass is harder to get to a satisfying level in comparison to Sr-009 for sure lol


----------



## weasel1979

Guys, not every answer is t2 or bhse, he asked for an amp recommendation for his 507.


----------



## Jones Bob

weasel1979 said:


> Guys, not every answer is t2 or bhse, he asked for an amp recommendation for his 507.



Grounded Grid?


----------



## Whitigir

Jones Bob said:


> Grounded Grid?


Lol, that was awesome !

Any Kg amps are ok


----------



## SeaWo|f

florence said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I have SR-507/SRM-310 combination and I wonder what Stax amp I should look after if I upgrade this combo? I love how SR-507 sounds with this amp but you know, we all want to upgrade our units somehow. The only Stax combo I have auditoned to date beside mine was SR-009/SRM-006ts. That was really unmusical, very thin sound unexpectedly. Since I still feel that 507/310 has harmonious sounding combo, 507/006ts may suit better. I'm satisfied with SR-507, I'd like to upgrade the amp only. You tell me the most suitable amp with it maybe.
> 
> Thanks.



A 006ts or T1 would work very well. The 507 is not a hungry headphone, so that would be a cost effective route. If you are looking for more performance then you can mod either of those 2 amps in the future for very little cost. 

A used KGST or KGDT could also be a good option but they will be a bit more expense. 

If a used KGSSHV popped up at a good price point that is probably the best option if you want to stay SS. A new 727 would only cost a little less than a used KGSSHV but requires a mod to sound its best and is still inferior.


----------



## protoss

florence said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I have SR-507/SRM-310 combination and I wonder what Stax amp I should look after if I upgrade this combo? I love how SR-507 sounds with this amp but you know, we all want to upgrade our units somehow. The only Stax combo I have auditoned to date beside mine was SR-009/SRM-006ts. That was really unmusical, very thin sound unexpectedly. Since I still feel that 507/310 has harmonious sounding combo, 507/006ts may suit better. I'm satisfied with SR-507, I'd like to upgrade the amp only. You tell me the most suitable amp with it maybe.
> 
> Thanks.



SRM-006t is around $1000 ? So im assuming your budget is $1000.00 

I will wait for this;  https://stax-international.com/products/srm-d50/  - Stax SRM-D50  (This has a Dac inside it!) 
Or I will get; https://staxaudio.com/driver/srm-353xbk  - SRM-353XBK
And to taste 10% of the kgss, get this; Octave V2  - https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/

One of those 3 is enough for your 507 and is good for a long time. Also all 3 are equal in power levels. Give or take.


----------



## CT007 (Jul 23, 2018)

protoss said:


> Stax SRM-D50


Now that is badass! For $999 I imagine it's better than Modi Multibit + SRM-252S, but how much worse than a SRM-353..?

I love the little guage on that thing : D

More details on it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...e_their_new_400v_35w/?st=jjywfkh6&sh=ab9c1ce2


----------



## padam

CT007 said:


> Now that is badass! For $999 I imagine it's better than Modi Multibit + SRM-252S, but how much worse than a SRM-353..?
> 
> I love the little guage on that thing : D
> 
> More details on it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...e_their_new_400v_35w/?st=jjywfkh6&sh=ab9c1ce2



The SRM-D10 is 899$, so the SRM-D50 is probably going to be close to 1500$ instead of 1000$ (but we don't know for sure)


----------



## Rhamnetin (Jul 23, 2018)

weasel1979 said:


> Guys, not every answer is t2 or bhse, he asked for an amp recommendation for his 507.



Sorry, I created a separate discussion.

On the subject of SR-009 thinness/thickness, I was actually alluding to a quality not typically associated with "thick" sound. Thick sound as far as I can tell typically means heavy mid bass presence that rumbles a lot and just gives a heavier bottom, e.g. Audeze. The SR-009 is definitely not like an Audeze.

But where I hear the SR-009 being less thin than every headphone I have ever heard by far is with most instruments; never before have I heard such full bodied, weighty and impactful, and lifelike strings, horns, wind instruments, everything that's not a drum basically (since excellent planars can make those lifelike too).

All these instruments sound thin and toyish on every non electrostat, and the SR-009 takes this fullness to a level above the SR-007 to my ears. But this fullness I describe is the result of the SR-009's ultra resolving treble as far as I can tell, so totally unlike Audeze thickness.

I'm practically obsessed with my SR-009 and Carbon system right now (doesn't have to be a Carbon either, would have preferred a Grounded Grid or of course a T2). Never had this feeling for a music system before lol.


----------



## JimL11 (Jul 23, 2018)

I agree with @SeaWolf, a T1 or 006 would work well with any Lambda series headphone. Modify it by replacing the output plate resistors with constant current loads and it will do a creditable job with the 007 or 009 as well - at the same quality level as a modded 727, if not better, depending on taste.


----------



## JimL11

Rhamnetin said:


> Sorry, I created a separate discussion.
> 
> On the subject of SR-009 thinness/thickness, I was actually alluding to a quality not typically associated with "thick" sound. Thick sound as far as I can tell typically means heavy mid bass presence that rumbles a lot and just gives a heavier bottom, e.g. Audeze. The SR-009 is definitely not like an Audeze.
> 
> ...



Glad my former 009 has found a good home.


----------



## elira

What is a fair price for a second hand SRM-007tII?


----------



## JimL11 (Jul 23, 2018)

elira said:


> What is a fair price for a second hand SRM-007tII?



Usually, I look on eBay at completed listings and check the prices of items that actually sold to figure that out. You can probably do the same with the classified listings on Head-Fi, but it probably will take more work.

I have to say that, although I have not heard the SRM-007T, IMHO  the SRM-T1 or 006 is a better buy. It shares the same basic circuit as the 007, but is significantly less expensive. The output circuit is the only difference - the 007 doubles the output tubes, but only runs 40% more total standing current through them,, which actually puts their operation at a less linear point. The consensus opinion seems to be that the T1/006 series drive the Lambda phones very well, so the added power of the 007 doesn't really do that much for the Lambda series phones like the 507, and is still marginal for the SR-007 and SR-009 (see the InnerFidelity review 0f the SRM-007, which used the SR-009).


----------



## Hubert481

Did anyone hear the 009 with the T1 ?


----------



## wink

weasel1979 said:


> *Guys, not every answer is t2 or bhse*, he asked for an amp recommendation for his 507.



It is if you want a short cut to the top...............


----------



## weasel1979

Compared to the top planars, all electrostats sound thinner to me. And compared to the sr-007, the sr-009 sounds thinner to me too. I do have a carbon and had a kgss-sr009 combo but the sr-009 sounded distant and uninvolving to me in a/b comparison.


----------



## Whitigir

weasel1979 said:


> Compared to the top planars, all electrostats sound thinner to me. And compared to the sr-007, the sr-009 sounds thinner to me too. I do have a carbon and had a kgss-sr009 combo but the sr-009 sounded distant and uninvolving to me in a/b comparison.



Personal preferences, and as mine goes, I prefer Sr009 out of Tubes.  The Sr007-MKI is much better with Carbon


----------



## statfi

Hubert481 said:


> Did anyone hear the 009 with the T1 ?


I used my 009 with a T1 for a couple of years before I acquired a BHSE.  My T1 is old and I have/had not done the refurb/upgrades that it deserves.  I greatly enjoyed that combo, but the BHSE is even better.  Detailed notes upon request, if I can find them.


----------



## statfi

weasel1979 said:


> Compared to the top planars, all electrostats sound thinner to me. And compared to the sr-007, the sr-009 sounds thinner to me too. I do have a carbon and had a kgss-sr009 combo but the sr-009 sounded distant and uninvolving to me in a/b comparison.


Apologies.  Gotta ask: do you mean "thinner than accurate"?  With which do you think you sound closer to what the microphones heard?  As Harry Pearson pointed out, such a determination makes more sense with unamplfied music in a real space.


----------



## Whitigir

statfi said:


> Apologies.  Gotta ask: do you mean "thinner than accurate"?  With which do you think you sound closer to what the microphones heard?  As Harry Pearson pointed out, such a determination makes more sense with unamplfied music in a real space.



I don’t know what he meant, and I don’t know what Accurate mean either.

I do know that in my quest for hi-fi, I want it to get closer to the real live instruments fidelity, tonality, presentations....etc....therefore, under my point of view, Carbon pairing with SR-009 is thin. That is because it becomes too fast, the tonal body of live instruments becomes less realistic than it was in real live.


----------



## Rhamnetin (Jul 24, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> I don’t know what he meant, and I don’t know what Accurate mean either.
> 
> I do know that in my quest for hi-fi, I want it to get closer to the real live instruments fidelity, tonality, presentations....etc....therefore, under my point of view, Carbon pairing with SR-009 is thin. That is because it becomes too fast, the tonal body of live instruments becomes less realistic than it was in real live.



I'm curious (and sorry if it was stated already) but what headphone did you find to have more realistic tonal body of instruments than the SR-009? I need a port modded SR-007Mk2 to A/B test here, but beyond that I find the tonal body of instruments (everything but drums) of all other headphones to be tiny, anemic, veiled, and toyish with relatively no impact or body. Like a dense cloud of fog is obscuring the sound and holding a lot of it back, while with the SR-009 it is right there in front of me.

Going from the Code-6 or LCD-4 to the SR-009 for me was about as big an upgrade as going from a Cooler Master gaming headset to an AKG K7XX or Beyerdynamic DT 880.


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 24, 2018)

Rhamnetin said:


> I'm curious (and sorry if it was stated already) but what headphone did you find to have more realistic tonal body of instruments than the SR-009? I need a port modded SR-007Mk2 to A/B test here, but beyond that I find the tonal body of instruments (everything but drums) of all other headphones to be tiny, anemic, veiled, and toyish with relatively no impact or body. Like a dense cloud of fog is obscuring the sound and holding a lot of it back, while with the SR-009 it is right there in front of me.



Still SR-009,  But out of Grounded Grid or even better, out of KG-T2  .  Stax are hugely affected by the amplifiers that is driving it.  The 007-MKI was superbly paired with Carbon though

I have become a broken record, I keep repeating myself LOL


----------



## Rhamnetin

Whitigir said:


> Still SR-009,  But out of Grounded Grid or even better, out of KG-T2  .  Stax are hugely affected by the amplifiers that is driving it.  The 007-MKI was superbly paired with Carbon though
> 
> I have become a broken record, I keep repeating myself LOL



Haha yeah, these are some of the most amp dependent headphones out there. The Grounded Grid is next on my list, I do plan to get one. Got any favored tubes for it?


----------



## Whitigir

Rhamnetin said:


> Haha yeah, these are some of the most amp dependent headphones out there. The Grounded Grid is next on my list, I do plan to get one. Got any favored tubes for it?



Yes, similar to BHSE, T2, slab XF2 Mullard Quad onto it .  I think it is because electro-stat nature, they are very amp dependent


----------



## Rhamnetin

Whitigir said:


> Yes, similar to BHSE, T2, slab XF2 Mullard Quad onto it .  I think it is because electro-stat nature, they are very amp dependent



I have also noticed that more and more GG/BHSE/T2 owners are preferring certain NOS 6CA7 models to any EL34.


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 24, 2018)

Rhamnetin said:


> I have also noticed that more and more GG/BHSE/T2 owners are preferring certain NOS 6CA7 models to any EL34.



If you can find 6CA7 NoS.  I want to look for Fatbottle Nos 6CA7, but I can’t.  If you know a good place for that, let me know


----------



## SeaWo|f

Rhamnetin said:


> Haha yeah, these are some of the most amp dependent headphones out there. The Grounded Grid is next on my list, I do plan to get one. Got any favored tubes for it?



I have seen a few people swearing by C6A7 in the gg. Actual C6A7 though.. A few companies have sold things that they call C6A7 but are structurally EL34.


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 24, 2018)

SeaWo|f said:


> I have seen a few people swearing by C6A7 in the gg. Actual C6A7 though.. A few companies have sold things that they call C6A7 but are structurally EL34.


Really ? Please link me a good 6CA7.  I do use Electro Harmonix one, but it tonal body is very modern though, which I didn’t like too much.  Not sure if those are 6CA7 or structurally el34


----------



## SeaWo|f

From memory EH, JJ and the treasures are legit. I looked into this over a year ago while making a list of new production tubes of this type plus 12au7 and 12ax7. I can't remember who was the one that was selling el34 an interchangeably calling it c6a7.


----------



## Whitigir

Isn’t treasure a little not too reliable ?


----------



## SeaWo|f

I have read that but not in posts newer than a few years ago. Just like psvane ph replica el34s. But mine don't exhibit the production issues from reports years ago.

I think there is a lot of noise when there are problems but once they are fixed it dies down without people going to the trouble to report with zeal that the issues are gone. 

Tonality wise most seem to think for new c6a7 the treasures are best.


----------



## SeaWo|f

If you see thinking of something fun to try get the sophia electric el34 those look unique. A bit spendy for new production but does not touch nos pricing.


----------



## georgep

Pretty sure from a tube history perspective that 6CA7 was originally the US JEDEC designation for the European EL34 tube - and that the tubes are and were intended to be identical. The fat bottle version of the 6CA7 didn't exist until a number of years *after *the 6CA7 designation was introduced. So my understanding is that 6CA7 is the same as an EL34 (both are pentodes), but the fat bottle 6CA7 (sylvania with internal holes) is not a true EL34 (and technically also not a true 6CA7 either). So saying someone is looking for 6CA7 but not an EL34 is a little ambiguous, since they are technically the same tube - it is the fat bottle "6CA7" that is the outlier.

And I would not risk putting fat bottle 6CA7 in a T2, for example. And I am not sure what Justin's view would be about that tube in a BHSE over the long term.


----------



## Whitigir

georgep said:


> Pretty sure from a tube history perspective that 6CA7 was originally the US JEDEC designation for the European EL34 tube - and that the tubes are and were intended to be identical. The fat bottle version of the 6CA7 didn't exist until a number of years *after *the 6CA7 designation was introduced. So my understanding is that 6CA7 is the same as an EL34 (both are pentodes), but the fat bottle 6CA7 (sylvania with internal holes) is not a true EL34 (and technically also not a true 6CA7 either). So saying someone is looking for 6CA7 but not an EL34 is a little ambiguous, since they are technically the same tube - it is the fat bottle "6CA7" that is the outlier.
> 
> And I would not risk putting fat bottle 6CA7 in a T2, for example. And I am not sure what Justin's view would be about that tube in a BHSE over the long term.



Thanks George for cleaning that up! XF2 it is !


----------



## SeaWo|f

So the story goes, mulard designs and releases the el34. If anyone wants to produce these power tubes they have to deal with mulard because they have the patent. Sylvania doesn't want to do this so they design the c6a7 which is close enough to be compatible in most applications but differenough not to violate mulards patent.

El34= pentode

C6a7= beam tretrode(all and from the beginning)


----------



## Jones Bob (Jul 24, 2018)

To further refine:

Sylvania and other rebranded NOS big bottle and reissue EH 6CA7= beam power tetrode; g3 (beam forming plates) internally wired to cathode, pin 8. Pin 1 NC. Electrically interchangeable with EL34 designs.
OK to use in KG circuits.

JJ 6CA7= beam power pentode; g3 (beam forming plates) unconventionally independently wired to pin 1, no internal connection to cathode Pin 8.
Do not use these in Stax original or DIY T2!
In these designs, g3 is wired to the plate via the PCB. In EL34s g3 (suppressor grid) is sparsely wound and has very little surface area, allowing the electrons to mostly pass thru with minimal current draw. In the JJ 6CA7, g3 (beam forming plate) has more effective surface area than the plates, are closer to the cathode and mostly enclose g2 (screen grid). If g3 in these tubes is connected to plate potential, the current draw will easily surpass the SOA they were designed for. The results could be spectacular.

Chinese 6CA7: IDK - no experience with how these are constructed or internally wired.


----------



## georgep

There is an abundance stories on the web about the relationship between the EL34, the 6CA7 and the US made fat bottle 6CA7 - but they are just stories. Every european tube has a JEDEC/RETMA USA designation, so here is the trick - tell me what the US JEDEC/RETMA number is for the european EL34 tube? The fat bottle 6CA7 wasn't produced until the late 1960s, but the 6CA7 designation existed long before that.


----------



## Rhamnetin (Jul 24, 2018)

Speaking of Psvane, how is their EL34? Guessing not on the same level as great NOS models?

Side note, non Stax headphones really are so boring and lifeless and veiled in comparison. It's such a massive difference. Can't wait to hear what a Grounded Grid will do to the mids, since the SR-009 + KGSSHV Carbon has by far the best headphone mids I've encountered to date (I've listened to it on the BHSE but always in noisy environments).


----------



## GarageBoy

JimL11 said:


> I agree with @SeaWolf, a T1 or 006 would work well with any Lambda series headphone. Modify it by replacing the output plate resistors with constant current loads and it will do a creditable job with the 007 or 009 as well - at the same quality level as a modded 727, if not better, depending on taste.


Is there a guide to this somewhere?


----------



## Eich1eeF

GarageBoy said:


> Is there a guide to this somewhere?



The guide by JimL was published in AudioXpress July 2017. Google  'stax srm-t1 "ccs"' to find his announcement in the other place, as well as a picture of a nice board done by Spritzer, not sure if he published the files to clone that somewhere or even sells spares.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Thanks @Jones Bob for the details.

@JimL11  also walked someone on this thread through the ccs mod in December if I am not mistaken.


----------



## JimL11 (Jul 24, 2018)

GarageBoy said:


> Is there a guide to this somewhere?





Eich1eeF said:


> The guide by JimL was published in AudioXpress July 2017. Google  'stax srm-t1 "ccs"' to find his announcement in the other place, as well as a picture of a nice board done by Spritzer, not sure if he published the files to clone that somewhere or even sells spares.





SeaWo|f said:


> @JimL11  also walked someone on this thread through the ccs mod in December if I am not mistaken.



Yes, the article was published in AudioXpress July, 2017, back issues should still be available on their website. Actually I walked @Muffinhead through the build in Jan of this year - he seemed to like the results. See thread posts from p.923, Jan 24 to Feb. 5. He also replaced all the electrolytic caps, which is recommended due to the age of the T1, and put 5.1 kilohm safety resistors on the outputs (easiest way is to desolder the wires from the circuit board to the output socket and interpose the resistors between the board and wire (these wires run to the socket from the left edge of the board, if you are looking at the board from the front), as well as putting a 4.7 megohm resistor in line to the bias terminal - again the easiest way is to desolder the wires from the circuit board (they come from the center of the board) and interpose the resistor. That last mod was left out of the AudioXpress article but is definitely recommended.

AFAIK there is no published circuit board for the constant current loads, but each consists of two MOSFETs, three resistors and a trimmer pot, so it is simple enough to build on a piece of perf-board. I actually built mine by hand selecting the current setting resistor but I'm weird.


----------



## VandyMan (Jul 24, 2018)

.


----------



## SeaWo|f (Jul 24, 2018)

Rhamnetin said:


> Speaking of Psvane, how is their EL34? Guessing not on the same level as great NOS models?



I can't compare to nos types but at 90ish per tube they are not on that cost level. For a new production tube I am happy with them. They look pretty to fwiw.







And yes I agree @Whitigir is a broken record  !!


----------



## SeaWo|f (Jul 24, 2018)

I have no idea how the quote system screwed up that post but It wont let me fix it either ... argh

Edit :: NM I found it. I guess about 8 shots of Vodka gives me clarity.


----------



## weasel1979 (Jul 25, 2018)

Sorry I wanted to quote someone who asked about what I meant by "thinner" but I wasnt able to quote that person somehow.: 

One difference between planars and electrostates is that the latter sound less meaty, they sound thinner. Planars sound meaty and kind of liquid, whereas electrostates sound airy, thin and weightless, bouncy. Planars tend to have more weight and density in their sound, whereas electrostates sound more transparent. There are mamy other differences of course (f.e. best treble goes to electrostates for sure) but I only wanted to explain what I meant by "thinner". No matter the amp,  an electrostat cannot compete with the thickness of a top planar nor does it try to.


----------



## Whitigir

That is not what I hear and I am hearing Stax


----------



## weasel1979 (Jul 25, 2018)

I didnt know this is even up for debate. Stax fans think of it as a strength I thought. Well everything is subjective..


----------



## Whitigir

The strength of Stax is that nothing is overly emphasized or bumped up, and that is different than “lacking behind”, airiness and open, yes, very natural and realistic


----------



## Rhamnetin (Jul 25, 2018)

I think part of that thickness isn't only heavy mid bass presence (SR-007 has lots, more than many planars) and bass impact (SR-009 has more than most planars), but as weasel1979 indicated the wide open airiness and lightning quick decay of Stax just creates a different sound than the slower decay and thinner treble of a non electrostat that can put more emphasis on the lower end, and the sound lingering for longer (due to slower decay and less openness) makes for that "meaty" sound.

Calling Stax "thin" though is misleading since that sounds like a negative attribute (e.g. small thin sounding instruments when in reality Stax has the most full bodied impactful instruments by far).


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 25, 2018)

Rhamnetin said:


> I think part of that thickness isn't only heavy mid bass presence (SR-007 has lots, more than many planars) and bass impact (SR-009 has more than most planars), but as weasel1979 indicated the wide open airiness and lightning quick decay of Stax just creates a different sound than the slower decay and thinner treble of a non electrostat that can put more emphasis on the lower end.



Spot on! Every dynamic headphones I have come across will have either emphasized this sections or that sections.  Never seen them being so balanced (Compare to ES).  Even sound pressures distributions within the housing itself can be measured this way too.  Especially dynamic headphones are heavily influenced by the housing, the standing waves, and the resonances.  Stax by design and technicality has the “least” effects of those said above, and also moving at the speed that would surpass anything dynamic or planar.  That is technicality.

When you have the correct system, the Stax just sound unbelievable, and only Stax of different kinds will bring alternated sound signatures.

Why do we have Planar again ? Right! Inspired by ElectroStat ! Why did Sennheiser come out with Orpheus ? Right! Inspired by Stax ! LoL.  Not to say that Stax is the best or untouchable, but to think Dynamic have anything better than Stax is just personal preferences, and I do not criticize that.  However, I am not comfortable when people call *Stax “Lacks” this or that .  The only thing your Stax is lacking is the depth of your pocket

**Also** if you think Electro Stat is so easy to make to performances, ask those DIY folks, and Hi-fi Man LoL!*


----------



## Jones Bob

Headphone listening to stereo sources is absolutely artificial in its reproduction of perceived sound. People tend to adapt and mentally accept its flaws after a short time.

Many times in auditioning headphones, one’s attention is immediately drawn to exaggerated aspects of the reproduction. As head time with those headphones increase, those aspects become liabilities as identified being the headphone’ s inherent sonic signature. Everything heard played over them will sound “colored” to some extent to that listener. So begins the upgrade itch.

It takes awhile to live with to really recognize and appreciate the subtle qualities that STAX brings to one’s overall listening experience and enjoyment. They simply get out of the way between you and the music. It’s a personal journey of self awareness and discovery. 

It’s taken literally years for me building amps, buying many different STAX models, and putting together the rest on my system to fully taylor the sound to my headphone preferences. 

It’s been a long journey climbing my headphone Mt Everest, and still not at the top yet (if ever). Knowing what I know now, I would never consider just taking a helicopter to the top. The view there would be much less engaging. And after a short while would become boring.


----------



## weasel1979 (Jul 25, 2018)

Whitigir, I wasnt talking about dynamic headphones, I dont like their sound compared to planars and electrostates, they dont stand a chance imo. But between planars and electostates, I am very interested to keep seeing that battle unfold. Its a great time for headphones and yes, I also love Stax headphones, but that doesnt mean I think they are perfect at EVERYthing, come on.


----------



## VRacer-111

Not really a fan of most planars (too flat and slightly dull sounding to me), but love dynamics and STAX Lambdas. What I care about in listening to music is dynamics and punch along with adequate detail and clarity, and good body to the sound. STAX are indeed top level 'phones', absolutey love what they do. However, they can't do bass presence/feel like a dynamic headphone, nothing usually does other than a dynamic. Sure the dynamics have more distortion and are a less precise, slower driver... but that doesn't matter when it comes to the feeling you get from the sound they produce. Technicalities aren't everything, especially with less than perfect sounding music.

The 3 headphones that basically have the entirety of my music listening time now are the modded TH-X00PH, the new HD58X, and modded SR-L300 Ltds - two dynamics and the STAX. About half of my listening time is with the STAX. Sometimes, I just feel like jamming out and listening to bass driven, impactful and dynamic music - so TH-X00PHs. Other times, I just want a more detailed and balanced sound and relax a little more - so the HD58Xs. And then there is the times feel like actually diving into the music and fully explore everything about it: STAX Lamdas FTW - absolutely excell at that beyond most anything else.


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## Contrails (Jul 25, 2018)

I beg to differ.  The LCD-2 Rev 2 and even the LCD-X are excellent in the Bass region. The X has a straight line going into well Sub-bass section on the charts.  Compare this to the HD650/660/800S, they all lack the sub-bass of the mentioned planars.  The HD650/660S have a mid-bass hump but can't produce the Bass detail, tightness or speed of the LCD-X.  The Sub-bass can actually become distracting at times on the LCD-X but there is hardly any on the mentioned dynamics.  A middle ground would be perfect. The LCD-4 which I haven't heard so I can not comment on it but quite a few people say it's a step up from the LCD-X.  I have heard the HD650 from mediocre to uber expensive amps and is one the best value headphones out there! It's one of my favourite headphones.  Where the planars fall short is the soundstage and imaging superpowers of the dynamics aka HD800/HD800S and the AKG K1000.  The older planars were also guilty of Frequency roll-off at the top.

The L700 is the HD650 of the Stax line.  It has a slight mid-bass hump like the HD650 but the treble was a little hot for me (amp dependant as many have mentioned).  But still has the technicalities of an electro-stat.  Beautiful sounding headphone especially if you are just want a fun sounding e-stat (perfect for most genres).  Bigger soundstage than the HD650 with better imaging.  Not soft/delicate sounding at all.  I think a powerful KGST/BHSE with the L700 would give you plenty of meat/Bass in the sound while still providing the clarity.

My headphone journey started 5 years ago when I wanted more bass out of the HD280 pro.  And now I sit with the SR007 Mk1 around my head.  It has exactly the right amount of bass.  If the track calls for it, it hits hard but when not required it backs off but still adds weight to the sound.  The song 'Within' on Random Access Memories is my test for this.  The Piano at the start is sublime to listen to.  It has plenty of sub-bass rumble too.  Almost as good the LCD-X.  Couple this with a slight laid-back sound but the treble still extends beautifully.  Some members like Birgir prefer the SR007 MK1 to the SR009 because of it's powerful sound.  Almost like if Sennheiser were to make an estat version of the HD650, the SR007 would be it.  Wait a minute, He-1...

Is it the perfect headphones? No.  It lacks the soundstage and imaging of the HD800S, might not be as fast and detailed as the SR009 or the He-1.  But I don't need that super wide and soundstage as I hardly listen to symphonies. But for rest of my music, it does a fantastic job, especially in the Bass.


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## Rhamnetin (Jul 25, 2018)

^ Looks like VRacer was commenting on Stax bass not planar bass.

But on the contrary, I can't name a single open back dynamic headphone with more bass slam than the SR-009. In fact I can't name a single open back dynamic headphone with a single advantage in bass reproduction than the SR-009 with a great amp.

Having owned the SR-009, Audeze LCD-4, and LFF Code-6, the SR-009's bass is far superior to the Code-6's in every way except for sheer extension which in this case is actually meaningless. The Code-6 extends down close to 10 Hz while the SR-009 stops at right around 20 flat. Makes no real difference in practice especially since the Code-6's sub 25 Hz presence is super weak. The Code-6's bass is very muddy compared to the SR-009 and also softer.

The LCD-4 has amazing extension (about 10 Hz deeper than SR-009), a bit more punch, and overall a lot more heft and growl so to speak. The bass is monstrous and has very good texture and detail and transparency. But it's still veiled and almost two dimensionsal compared to the SR-009 bass.

Due to the SR-009's mind blowing transparency and resolution, you can hear so much more detail and depth in the bass even compared to the LCD-4 and it's not even close. It lifts a veil and lets you see into the bass so to speak, the texture and transparency and detail blow away the LCD-4 even in this bass vs bass comparison.

All the SR-009 gives up to the LCD-4 in bass performance is 20 Hz vs 10 Hz max extension (estimated to my ears plus the test I use is limited to 10 Hz), and overall less bass presence. The bass of the LCD-4 is always there at least subtly rumbling in the background waiting to explode, and when it does explode there's a bit more of it.

That's my experience at least. The SR-009's bass is by far my favorite and I listen to lots of bassy music such as heavy metal and rock and even rap. On heavy metal songs with extremely fast drums, that is one of the areas where the SR-009's bass performance just obliterates the LCD-4 and every other headphone I have used.

I am mildly curious about the Abyss Phi (CC) which some here have said edges out the LCD-4 but meh... a non electrostat just can't reach this level of realism so I don't really care.

And to think the SR-009 costs less than the LCD-4, Abyss Phi, Susvara, Utopia... and then there's the SR-007 with its modest price. Going from top tier non estats to a good SR-009 system seriously reminds me of going from cheap gaming headsets to good $200 open backs. Since that's when the upgrade was big enough to cause me to hear things I never heard in songs before, and when it allowed me to hear music differently. Going from even an HD 598 to an HD 800 is a smaller upgrade to me than HD 800 to SR-009.


----------



## Contrails

Cheers Rhamnetin, I had read Vracer's post incorrectly.


----------



## QueueCumber (Jul 25, 2018)

Joining the Stax club Friday! BHSE and SR-009S incoming. I look forward to hanging them on my skull. (Literally! I just picked up some Sam Tufnell resin skull art pieces that will double as headphone stands... lol)


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## mulveling (Jul 25, 2018)

Helluva way to start, QueueCumber!! Awesome.

Some great posts in the last page; you guys are real headphone philosophers 

The cost of NOS EL34 has been referenced, but I’ve never paid much more than $400 for a quad. At that price I think it’s worth it. You don’t need literal NOS; used tubes that test very strong can be a great deal. And XF2 Mullards are great, but so are XF3 and XF4 for lower cost, not to mention much more plentiful! You only need 2 matches pairs for an amp like BHSE; effectively no different from a matched quad. Ease the requirements and you can get amazing sounding long-lived tubes for a reasonable price.


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## VRacer-111 (Jul 25, 2018)

I'm talking about modded Fostex Biodyna level subbass presentation... for jamming to music. LCDs, or any other planar I've heard absolutely pale in comparison to the immense subbass presence/feel of the bass - yet that immense feeling of bass comes with hardly any expense to clarity, dynamic, detail, or interference with to frequencies above it. My modded TH-X00PHs are my absolute favorites cans, next to the SR-L300LEs.

The overall bass from my modded SR-L300LE (L700 clone) is the best I've heard so far, with the RME ADI-2 DAC EQ used for subbass/bass reinforcement (+4.5dB @ 57Hz, Q=1.1, low shelf and bass knob set to +2.5dB @ 82Hz, Q=1.3) and NAD C 275BEE stereo amp driving it through a Mjolnir Audio SRD-7, not lacking whatsover anywhere - extremely full bodied, detailed, dynamic, punchy, and precise. Think I prefer it over an SR-007 MK2.9 driven off a KGSSHV Carbon, but that's going on memory from a short listen a while ago. It just doesn't have the massive subbass presence that the Fostex biodynas give - few other headphones do. The Campfire Audio Cascade comes somewhat close, but still falls short (besides having center imaging issue and narrower soundstage compared to the TH-X00PH).


----------



## Sinery

VRacer-111 said:


> I'm talking about modded Fostex Biodyna level subbass presentation... for jamming music. LCDs, or any other planar I've heard absolutely pale in comparison to the immense subbass presence/feel of the bass - yet that immense feeling of bass comes with hardly any expense to clarity, dynamic, detail, or interference with to frequencies above it. My modded TH-X00PHs are my absolute favorites cans, next to the SR-L300LEs.
> 
> The overall bass from my modded SR-L300LE (L700 clone) is the best I've heard so far, with the RME ADI-2 DAC EQ used for subbass/bass reinforcement (+4.5dB @ 57Hz, Q=1.1, low shelf and bass knob set to +2.5dB @ 82Hz) and NAD C 275BEE stereo amp driving it through a Mjolnir Audio SRD-7, not lacking whatsover anywhere - extremely full bodied, detailed, dynamic, punchy, and precise. Think I prefer it over an SR-007 MK2.9 driven off a KGSSHV Carbon, but that's going on memory from a short listen a while ago. It just doesn't have the massive subbass presence that the Fostex biodynas give - few other headphones do. The Campfire Audio Cascade comes somewhat close, but still falls short (besides having imaging issue and narrower soundstage compared to the TH-X00PH).



Just how have you modded your L300LE?
I just got mine and put Vesper pads on them, but they still sit like a triangle ontop of my head with nothing touching the bottom of my face.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Jul 25, 2018)

Sinery said:


> Just how have you modded your L300LE?
> I just got mine and put Vesper pads on them, but they still sit like a triangle ontop of my head with nothing touching the bottom of my face.



I didn't have any issues with the stock fit other than wanting a little less clamp, and I don't have a wide head. L300 arc assembly plus thicker, stiffer L500 pads = CLAMP FORCE! LOL

Changed the headband arc assembly and pads out for L700 ones... much more comfortable and fits a little better to the head.


----------



## SeaWo|f

VRacer-111 said:


> The overall bass from my modded SR-L300LE (L700 clone) is the best I've heard so far, with the RME ADI-2 DAC EQ used for subbass/bass reinforcement (+4.5dB @ 57Hz, Q=1.1, low shelf and bass knob set to +2.5dB @ 82Hz) and NAD C 275BEE stereo amp driving it through a Mjolnir Audio SRD-7, not lacking whatsover anywhere - extremely full bodied, detailed, dynamic, punchy, and precise. Think I prefer it over an SR-007 MK2.9 driven off a KGSSHV Carbon, but that's going on memory from a short listen a while ago. It just doesn't have the massive subbass presence that the Fostex biodynas give - few other headphones do. The Campfire Audio Cascade comes somewhat close, but still falls short (besides having imaging issue and narrower soundstage compared to the TH-X00PH).



If you get the chance in order to hear the 007 mk2.9 at its best the port mod is really needed. I don't feel that it added much in impact or much in quantity, but what it did do was even out the low end response. IMO with the mod the thing that strikes you hardest and first is linearity.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Jul 25, 2018)

Yeah, I wouldn't mind some extended listening time with both the 007 and 009 (which is the Omega I prefer from the short listen of both I've had so far) if I ever get the chance. Have only had short listens with each at headphone meets. The 009S do interest me as well, but way out of my price range like the 009 and I honestly prefer the Lambda sound over the Omegas I've heard.


----------



## SeaWo|f

If you are a fan of stats it's a must. The difficult part is the amp and up stream gear are critical to get the most out of them,. I never planned to go this route until hearing them on Justin's bhse at a small(quiet) local meet. 

But pickle Rick approves and in the end I think we can all agree that's what really matters.


----------



## ahmedie

Sinery said:


> Just how have you modded your L300LE?
> I just got mine and put Vesper pads on them, but they still sit like a triangle ontop of my head with nothing touching the bottom of my face.


sorry i laughed at that ! but you have to get l700 pads and arc assembly because they are far more flexible ontop !


----------



## Ali-Pacha

weasel1979 said:


> Guys, not every answer is t2 or bhse, he asked for an amp recommendation for his 507.








Ali


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## weasel1979 (Jul 26, 2018)

You are welcome . 
Back to the " Do planars sound thicker than Estats-discussion. I kind of agree with Rhamnetin here. Let me put it in a way it sounds positive: The sr-009 presents the sound, including the base in a lasersharp way. Very accurate (instead of "thin"). But with a bassy planar, there is always more base, even with a piano or a voice of a singer, there is a nice layer or frame of base to it which many people like.

No headphone or speaker sounds "natural" or "realistic". You can tell when you walk down the street and hear a real piano / trumpet/ drumkit out of a window. You just know.


----------



## ahmedie

off topic, just sharing crazy anime stuff which happen to have stax headphone


----------



## JimL11

LMAO! Yes, Stax is a gateway drug!


----------



## Sinery

VRacer-111 said:


> I didn't have any issues with the stock fit other than wanting a little less clamp, and I don't have a wide head. L300 arc assembly plus thicker, stiffer L500 pads = CLAMP FORCE! LOL
> 
> Changed the headband arc assembly and pads out for L700 ones... much more comfortable and fits a little better to the head.





ahmedie said:


> sorry i laughed at that ! but you have to get l700 pads and arc assembly because they are far more flexible ontop !



Just how do the L300 and L700 arc differ?

Clamp or swivel isn't my issue, the issue is pivot as the tab on top of the stator hits the arc and therefore pushes the stator into my head like (slashes are stators): / head \
It isn't by a lot but enough to be painful.


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## raband (Jul 26, 2018)

Can you put the tabs on the other side of the "arc"?

edit: the clamps pull out fairly easily - can you put them back on with the tab keeping the stators like:

\0/


----------



## Sinery

raband said:


> Can you put the tabs on the other side of the "arc"?
> 
> edit: the clamps pull out fairly easily - can you put them back on with the tab keeping the stators like:
> 
> \0/



The tab is just there to stop it from hitting the lip of the stator, so no.
Maniac me even mounted them upside down, didn't work out (thank god).


----------



## raband

Sinery said:


> The tab is just there to stop it from hitting the lip of the stator, so no.



Ah, true 

Have you got a "wide" head or anything?


----------



## Sinery

raband said:


> Ah, true
> 
> Have you got a "wide" head or anything?



Too wide, evidently.
Ain't too many 190 cm tall Japanese vikings around.


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## VRacer-111 (Jul 27, 2018)

Sinery said:


> Just how do the L300 and L700 arc differ?
> 
> Clamp or swivel isn't my issue, the issue is pivot as the tab on top of the stator hits the arc and therefore pushes the stator into my head like (slashes are stators): / head \
> It isn't by a lot but enough to be painful.



Make sure you have the strap positioned well...farther up/all the way up is better than farther down.

The L700 arc assembly has much less clamp and it fits better on the head. Here's what it looks like on the L300LE (with the L700 pads):

https://photos.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Audio/n-6fh3fz/i-P2H7hqS/0/538e365c/O/i-P2H7hqS.jpg


----------



## Pahani

Sinery said:


> The tab is just there to stop it from hitting the lip of the stator, so no.
> Maniac me even mounted them upside down, didn't work out (thank god).





VRacer-111 said:


> Make sure you have the strap positioned well...farther up/all the way up is better than farther down.
> 
> The L700 arc assembly has much less clamp and it fits better on the head. Here's what it looks like on the L300LE (with the L700 pads):
> 
> https://photos.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Audio/n-6fh3fz/i-P2H7hqS/0/538e365c/O/i-P2H7hqS.jpg



I can't speak to the L300 assembly, but the difference in clamp (force) between L700 and my SR207's is quite severe.

SR207 are basically welded to my noggin, but L700 threatens to fall off if I tilt my head back to swallow my daily vitamins. L700 is MUCH more comfy, even not factoring in the better pads...but I have to watch my head movements.


----------



## purk

Any more impression on the SRM-D10?


----------



## Rhamnetin

I remember there was a poster in here recently suggesting that top tier Gilmore designed amps probably aren't a really big upgrade with the SR-007/SR-009 (and thus SR-009S) and that we were all exaggerating.

I just wanted to add my voice into the mix (even though I did before due to multiple sessions with the BHSE, but that was in a fairly loud environment) now that I own a KGSSHV Carbon. Going from a top tier dynamic or planar magnetic headphone setup (e.g. Audeze LCD-4 + Pure BiPolar, HiFiMan HE1000V2 + Pure BiPolar, Focal Utopia + Pure BiPolar) to an SR-007/SR-009 and presumably SR-009S + KGSS is only a rather slight improvement in transparency, treble clarity and fullness, and other things specific to each headphone that I won't get into. 

But going from any of those dynamic/planar configs to either of those Stax headphones with a KGSSHV Carbon/Grounded Grid/BHSE/Megatron/T2 will be like when you first went from crappy no name headphones or Beats or gaming headsets to a good open back headphone. Of all headphone upgrades I've done, going from a top tier planar setup (LCD-4 + PureBiPolar / Code-6 + Pure BiPolar) to SR-009 + KGSSHV Carbon revealed more new sounds than any other headphone upgrade I've ever made, and the overall improvement in clarity/transparency is similar to going from crap (e.g. Cooler Master gaming headset) to say a Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro / AKG K7XX. 

So yeah, just a KGSS doesn't provide that upgrade. I can understand the idea that these amps don't make a huge difference though, since for many dynamic/planar headphones, going from a decent $500 amp to a $2,000 amp won't make a huge difference like this. Of course, most $2,000 amps also aren't designed as well as a Gilmore amp and not built nearly as well as something from Birgir or Kerry or HeadAmp; just look at Cavalli for example lol.

In other news, does anyone else think it might be a good idea for Stax to release something in the Lambda range that looks more like a normal headphone? Because no doubt the looks of the Lambda turns away people, even Head-Fi type of people.


----------



## raband

Rhamnetin said:


> does anyone else think it might be a good idea for Stax to release something in the Lambda range that looks more like a normal headphone?



As in the Omega range?

It wouldn't be the Lambda range - it's be a different one.

You're more asking if they should retire the Lambda range and bring out a new range that's cheaper in price than the Omega one.

Does anyone else think that STAX should release something in the Omega range that looks more like a Lambda? No doubt the look of the Omega range would turn away a lot of potential Stax buyers.


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## Rhamnetin

raband said:


> As in the Omega range?
> 
> It wouldn't be the Lambda range - it's be a different one.
> 
> ...



Not necessarily retire the Lambdas but yeah it wouldn't be a Lambda. I want more people to try Stax is all.


----------



## raband

Rhamnetin said:


> Not necessarily retire the Lambdas but yeah it wouldn't be a Lambda. I want more people to try Stax is all.



Same - without the big blocky speakers hanging off the head though the Stax would just be (to the casual punter) some other headphone that's $XXk's out of their reach.

Most peoples intro to Stax would be recognition of the cyborg looking things that people occasionally bring up on forums.

I think it'd be a very rare person that even thought about and Omega as their 1st Stax purchase.


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## VRacer-111 (Jul 27, 2018)

I wouldn't mind if they made a version designed more like the Koss ESP950. What I loved about the ESP950 is they were absolutely featherweight (lighter than any other fullsize headphone I've tried) and they were more comfortable to wear than Lambdas, even with non articulating stator housings.

I would absolutely dig a STAX that took inspiration from the Sennheiser HD700 in appearance and fit/comfort...could be the 'Delta' line. The comfort of the HD700 is what made me keep them for so long even though their sound has some issues. Simply the most comfortable headphone in existance along with the MrSpeakers Aeon. Plus have the cable similarly hang from more in the middle of the stator cage versus the bottom would help with better fitment too.


----------



## nanosword

I am thinking of buying a new 007 with carbon , Do I need to do portmod .


----------



## purk

Rhamnetin said:


> I remember there was a poster in here recently suggesting that top tier Gilmore designed amps probably aren't a really big upgrade with the SR-007/SR-009 (and thus SR-009S) and that we were all exaggerating.
> 
> I just wanted to add my voice into the mix (even though I did before due to multiple sessions with the BHSE, but that was in a fairly loud environment) now that I own a KGSSHV Carbon. Going from a top tier dynamic or planar magnetic headphone setup (e.g. Audeze LCD-4 + Pure BiPolar, HiFiMan HE1000V2 + Pure BiPolar, Focal Utopia + Pure BiPolar) to an SR-007/SR-009 and presumably SR-009S + KGSS is only a rather slight improvement in transparency, treble clarity and fullness, and other things specific to each headphone that I won't get into.
> 
> ...



I have to agree that the KGSS isn't necessary an upgrade over the top-end dynamic system.  That's one of the reason why I questioned Tyll's late impressions on the SR009 or the 007 for that matter as they were all based on the KGSS amp.  The KGSS is more likely a refined 717 to my ears.  The KGSSHV or the Carbon are noticeably better than the KGSS.


----------



## SeaWo|f

nanosword said:


> I am thinking of buying a new 007 with carbon , Do I need to do portmod .



No, it is a very good sounding headphone with out it. 

For me the mod evened out the bass response. Prior to the mod there was a bit of a hump in the bass, but depending on the type of music you are listening to and your preferences that extra energy may be nice.

Listen to them for a while before deciding to do the mod.

Also the mod is super easy, just take your time with the screws, poking the driver would be really bad. Spritzer is a bit dramatic about how hard it is to get the pads back on; I got the pads back on very quickly.


----------



## Rhamnetin (Jul 27, 2018)

nanosword said:


> I am thinking of buying a new 007 with carbon , Do I need to do portmod .



It is highly recommended and will make the bass sound more linear and perhaps improve extension thus sub-bass. But I was too scared to do it lol.



purk said:


> I have to agree that the KGSS isn't necessary an upgrade over the top-end dynamic system.  That's one of the reason why I questioned Tyll's late impressions on the SR009 or the 007 for that matter as they were all based on the KGSS amp.  The KGSS is more likely a refined 717 to my ears.  The KGSSHV or the Carbon are noticeably better than the KGSS.



Yeah I thought that was really silly. Praised the SR-009 as one of the best headphones ever with the BHSE, but then basically turned on all electrostats completely based on some sessions with a KGSS. So now anyone who reads the later articles and reviews of Innerfidelity will think that Stax is outdated and too bright/has treble issues, especially his Utopia review where he compared it to Stax just based on memory with the KGSS, painted all electrostats with one brush by suggesting they are all "too bright", giving the impression to users that the Utopia is better but I would suggest it's like a poor man's SR-009 except costs more... Very disingenuous and misleading.


----------



## purk

I think his KGSS is definitely not stock so it should be better sounding than the original KGSS.  Still I don't think it is comparable to the KGSSHV and BHSE for that matter.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Also think and the headphone the kgss was meant top go with, the original 007, A headphone that tends toward dark, shocking that that amp would make the 009 too bright..


----------



## purk

SeaWo|f said:


> Also think and the headphone the kgss was meant top go with, the original 007, A headphone that tends toward dark, shocking that that amp would make the 009 too bright..



Actually the KGSS (mine was Headamp) is pretty neutral but it was lacking in power and resolution for the SRM-007.  The added power on the KGSSHV & Carbon also allowing the SR009 to slam a little harder in the bass as well too.


----------



## Rossliew

How would one describe the incremental sonic benefits between the KGSSHv and the Carbon?


----------



## JimL11

SeaWo|f said:


> Also think and the headphone the kgss was meant top go with, the original 007, A headphone that tends toward dark, shocking that that amp would make the 009 too bright..



As far as I know, Kevin Gilmore has never designed his amps to be voiced towards one headphone or another, he designs them to be neutral. Which only makes sense, as he has no idea what headphone his amps will be used with.


----------



## mulveling

Rhamnetin said:


> Yeah I thought that was really silly. Praised the SR-009 as one of the best headphones ever with the BHSE, but then basically turned on all electrostats completely based on some sessions with a KGSS. So now anyone who reads the later articles and reviews of Innerfidelity will think that Stax is outdated and too bright/has treble issues, especially his Utopia review where he compared it to Stax just based on memory with the KGSS, painted all electrostats with one brush by suggesting they are all "too bright", giving the impression to users that the Utopia is better but I would suggest it's like a poor man's SR-009 except costs more... Very disingenuous and misleading.


Haha yes, that particular sequence of events with InnerFidelity/Tyll definitely got some of us to turn our heads sideways! Very stupid.


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## mulveling (Jul 27, 2018)

Rossliew said:


> How would one describe the incremental sonic benefits between the KGSSHv and the Carbon?


Tonal differences depend on the specific KGSShv variant. But the Carbon leans maybe a little to the bright side - not quite as much as the brightest KGSShv, though.

What the Carbon beats all variants on is: bass slam, soundstage, and detail. It is quite noticeable. The BHSE gives up some of that bass slam and soundstage for the tube midrange and a more neutral tone.


----------



## statfi

JimL11 said:


> As far as I know, Kevin Gilmore has never designed his amps to be voiced towards one headphone or another, he designs them to be neutral. Which only makes sense, as he has no idea what headphone his amps will be used with.


Thanks for posting this!  It is, frankly, what I would have suspected, but it is nice to get a real mafia confirmation  !-)


----------



## statfi

mulveling said:


> What the Carbon beats all variants on is: bass slam, soundstage, and detail. It is quite noticeable. The BHSE gives up some of that bass slam and soundstage for the tube midrange and a more neutral tone.



A few more words on Carbon vs. BHSE?  I am quite into bass slam, soundstage and detail, AND really like the sound I am getting from my BHSE, AND have no experience with the Carbon.


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## Rhamnetin (Jul 27, 2018)

mulveling said:


> Tonal differences depend on the specific KGSShv variant. But the Carbon leans maybe a little to the bright side - not quite as much as the brightest KGSShv, though.
> 
> What the Carbon beats all variants on is: bass slam, soundstage, and detail. It is quite noticeable. The BHSE gives up some of that bass slam and soundstage for the tube midrange and a more neutral tone.



The irony is, according to the description on mjolnir-audio, the Carbon was initially designed to "tame" the top end of the SR-009. But it also describes what happened: instead it graduated into becoming the current pinnacle of solid state electrostatic amp design.

Thanks for the comparison. I am guessing the Grounded Grid is the best of both worlds.


----------



## SeaWo|f

JimL11 said:


> As far as I know, Kevin Gilmore has never designed his amps to be voiced towards one headphone or another, he designs them to be neutral. Which only makes sense, as he has no idea what headphone his amps will be used with.



I think you are  right about this. I guess what I meant was that if the main headphone you are using at the time it will have at least some influence.

Individual builders can push things in either direction from neutral to a limited extent too.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks all for chiming in. I guess the 007s would pair well with most Carbons save for the warmest sounding builds.


----------



## mulveling (Jul 27, 2018)

statfi said:


> A few more words on Carbon vs. BHSE?  I am quite into bass slam, soundstage and detail, AND really like the sound I am getting from my BHSE, AND have no experience with the Carbon.


You're good, trust me. Those areas are a little better on Carbon, but the BHSE is no slouch, and personally I slightly preferred the BHSE overall.

@Rossliew the Carbon with 007 is indeed an epic pairing!


----------



## purk

Yes, the Carbon is definitely an apex for solidstate ampliflier.  It slams hard with plenty of dynamics and punch, however, mine still lean toward the bright side.  I prefer the tonal balanced of the BHSE overall over the Carbon but agree with @mulveling that the Carbon also has larger soundstage and depth cues.


----------



## Rossliew

purk said:


> Yes, the Carbon is definitely an apex for solidstate ampliflier.  It slams hard with plenty of dynamics and punch, however, mine still lean toward the bright side.  I prefer the tonal balanced of the BHSE overall over the Carbon but agree with @mulveling that the Carbon also has larger soundstage and depth cues.



Is your T2 a distinctive step up from the Carbon /bhse ?


----------



## Whitigir

Once you have gone into S*tax*, you better do it to the *Max* !!


----------



## Rhamnetin

Whitigir said:


> Once you have gone into S*tax*, you better do it to the *Max* !!



I will if people are able to build KGSSHV Carbon Nanotube amps! Hopefully the explosions during assembly will be figured out and avoided in the future. If so, I think they'll cost less than the T2 since from what I can tell, parts cost is much less.


----------



## Whitigir

Rhamnetin said:


> I will if people are able to build KGSSHV Carbon Nanotube amps! Hopefully the explosions during assembly will be figured out and avoided in the future. If so, I think they'll cost less than the T2 since from what I can tell, parts cost is much less.



The T2 is a technologically marvelous engineering piece of equipments.  Carbon nano tubes ? It won’t even be in comparison to T2.  From the legendary KG statement, the only thing that gives him T2 moments is the Circlotron, and it isn’t any cheaper or easier to build than T2 0_0

Btw, the only nanotubes now is Korg Tubes right ? I don’t think there are high market for it yet


----------



## SeaWo|f

Rhamnetin said:


> I will if people are able to build KGSSHV Carbon Nanotube amps! Hopefully the explosions during assembly will be figured out and avoided in the future. If so, I think they'll cost less than the T2 since from what I can tell, parts cost is much less.



Time involved with binding / testing because of the nature of the circuit I doubt these will ever be much if at all cheaper than a t2.



Whitigir said:


> The T2 is a technologically marvelous engineering piece of equipments.  Carbon nano tubes ? It won’t even be in comparison to T2.  From the legendary KG statement, the only thing that gives him T2 moments is the Circlotron, and it isn’t any cheaper or easier to build than T2 0_0
> 
> Btw, the only nanotubes now is Korg Tubes right ? I don’t think there are high market for it yet



Nanotube=circoltron if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Whitigir said:


> The T2 is a technologically marvelous engineering piece of equipments.  Carbon nano tubes ? It won’t even be in comparison to T2.  From the legendary KG statement, the only thing that gives him T2 moments is the Circlotron, and it isn’t any cheaper or easier to build than T2 0_0
> 
> Btw, the only nanotubes now is Korg Tubes right ? I don’t think there are high market for it yet



The "Nanotube" was the name given to the Circlotron amp. So, same thing. I think the parts cost is less than the T2 but if someone knows enough to clarify, that would be great!


----------



## Whitigir

Ahhhh, thanks for clarifying.  I had not been following much into circlotron building LOL! Totally satisfied with T2


----------



## Jones Bob

I’ll wait for the cheap Circlotron copies that will show up on Taobao in the near future.

What could go wrong?


----------



## Whitigir

Jones Bob said:


> I’ll wait for the cheap Circlotron copies that will show up on Taobao in the near future.
> 
> What could go wrong?



Roflmao ! I almost spit my coffee.  Thanks for the laugh


----------



## SeaWo|f

Jones Bob said:


> I’ll wait for the cheap Circlotron copies that will show up on Taobao in the near future.
> 
> What could go wrong?



And we have this week's winner of the internet's!


----------



## mulveling

Rossliew said:


> Is your T2 a distinctive step up from the Carbon /bhse ?


Yessssss!!!
Lol.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I wonder given the voltages and complexity this could be the death of the cheap Chinese KG copies, natural selection and what not


----------



## Whitigir

SeaWo|f said:


> I wonder given the voltages and complexity this could be the death of the cheap Chinese KG copies, *natural selection* and what not


did you just literally meant Darwin Award ?


----------



## SeaWo|f

Given the level of fail seen on these copies I'm not saying it but I'm sure thinking it loudly.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Jones Bob said:


> I’ll wait for the cheap Circlotron copies that will show up on Taobao in the near future.
> 
> What could go wrong?









(That's giving them too much credit actually)


----------



## indrakula

purk said:


> Any more impression on the SRM-D10?


I have been using D10 with L300 L and it is a perfect transportable solution. This is my first stax setup and i am very happy. D10 gets very hot after few hrs of use and i was told by Stax that it is normal. Also looking forward to D50 availability in Aug.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Damn it guys, I think I'm going to sell ALL of my other headphone gear, including my Hugo 2 and replace it with a Denafrips Venus. My office headphone system listed in my signature... I just don't want to listen to it when I'm at the office. And on flights, I think I'll just read the entire time. I really don't want to listen to any headphone system that is not on the same level as the SR-009 + KGSSHV Carbon... and I don't think this will wear off.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Heard good things about the denafrips dacs and your hugo 2 is probably the weakest link. I an not sure I would want to spend more than ~2k on a dac right now. D to A seems like an area that has a lot of movement and progression currently.


----------



## QueueCumber (Jul 28, 2018)

Have to say, really really really enjoying the 009S and BHSE. Clarity of sound and realism of individal instrument scale is remarkable.

I was a little worried when I first turned on the BHSE and started listening after only 3-5 minutes because it was so thin, shrill and 2-dimensional at first. I couldn’t believe how much everything filled out all around over the course of 30-40 minutes. Now I turn the BHSE on 30 minutes before I will listen to get it nice and warmed up.

I’m noticing it’s very sensitive to placement with my ears. There’s definitely a sweet spot for best sound with my head and ear shape and the 009S.

Looking forward to being able to compare them with the Susvara in the near future. I don’t have mine on hand at the moment. Just the Utopia and HD820. To my ears the 009S takes the detail of the Utopia up a notch and adds a soundstage. Impressive.

There’s so much hyperbole in this hobby that I wasn’t sure what to expect. Definitely pleasantly surprised and pleased!


----------



## Rhamnetin

QueueCumber said:


> Have to say, really really really enjoying the 009S and BHSE. Clarity of sound and realism of individal instrument scale is remarkable.
> 
> I was a little worried when I first turned on the BHSE and started listening after only 3-5 minutes because it was so thin, shrill and 2-dimensional at first. I couldn’t believe how much everything filled out all around over the course of 30-40 minutes. Now I turn the BHSE on 30 minutes before I will listen to get it nice and warmed up.
> 
> ...



Yeah I can see how impressions like mine might seem like hyperbole haha. The warm up time of the BHSE, and how it is important to check how the tubes are running from time to time turned me away from it, though every time I listened to it (always with an SR-007 or SR-009) I was blown away.

I too was going to compare my new Stax system to the HiFiMan Susvara (using a Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar amp), but I have experience with the HE1000 and Audeze LCD-4 and Abyss AB-1266 with excellent amplification, and people I trust have told me how the Susvara is only really a slight improvement over the HE1000 (which I imagine was the case anyway, I don't believe planar magnetic tech can get much better than those). Well... because of how the SR-009 plus a KGSSHV Carbon or BHSE absolutely destroys all of those planars to my ears, I lost all interest in the Susvara and sold off the Pure BiPolar already. It's not going to come close. Going from a top tier non-electrostat to a great Stax system to me was like when I first got into this hobby and went from a crappy "5.1 surround" gaming headset to something good for the first time. It is a bigger upgrade to me than going from a HiFiMan HE-400i to HE1000.


----------



## QueueCumber (Jul 29, 2018)

Rhamnetin said:


> Yeah I can see how impressions like mine might seem like hyperbole haha. The warm up time of the BHSE, and how it is important to check how the tubes are running from time to time turned me away from it, though every time I listened to it (always with an SR-007 or SR-009) I was blown away.
> 
> I too was going to compare my new Stax system to the HiFiMan Susvara (using a Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar amp), but I have experience with the HE1000 and Audeze LCD-4 and Abyss AB-1266 with excellent amplification, and people I trust have told me how the Susvara is only really a slight improvement over the HE1000 (which I imagine was the case anyway, I don't believe planar magnetic tech can get much better than those). Well... because of how the SR-009 plus a KGSSHV Carbon or BHSE absolutely destroys all of those planars to my ears, I lost all interest in the Susvara and sold off the Pure BiPolar already. It's not going to come close. Going from a top tier non-electrostat to a great Stax system to me was like when I first got into this hobby and went from a crappy "5.1 surround" gaming headset to something good for the first time. It is a bigger upgrade to me than going from a HiFiMan HE-400i to HE1000.



If my impressions seem reserved it’s because I spent the last day listening to the 009S exclusively. I need to do some extended comparisons with my other HPs over the next few weeks to get a sense of how they fit into my collection.

I wasn’t referring to anyone’s posts in particular. I’ve just been listening to audiophile-type equipment since I was 14 (44 now) and over the years have become skeptical of a lot of things people say and believe in this hobby via my personal experiences.

I’ve been playing guitar for the same amount of time, and when I hear something that sounds like a real acoustic guitar (correct to scale and tone) in front of me, I’m thrilled and impressed.


----------



## SeaWo|f

If tonality is what you mainly go for 007 mk2.9 with portmod is a worth while investment.


----------



## phaeton70

Hi, new staxer here  .. 

well, actually not new, in the past I had a 507+323 combo for a while, but sold them a while ago. And I have used a 009+BHSE for a long time (not mine unfortunately)

I just got a 009 (almost new, only 100hrs) and I will use a T1W (fully reconditioned) for now (really like how it sounds, warm and detailed).

I have quickly gone through this loooooooong thread, but still don't have a clear idea: can you old'n'wise staxers out there suggest a good amplifier for 3k max (new/used/demo/whatever)

I like trasparent, fast, precise sound with a touch of warmth (and you can see my other cans & amps down here, to get an idea....)

any help highly appreciated 

rgrds
mike


----------



## Contrails

phaeton70 said:


> Hi, new staxer here  ..
> 
> well, actually not new, in the past I had a 507+323 combo for a while, but sold them a while ago. And I have used a 009+BHSE for a long time (not mine unfortunately)
> 
> ...






 

I will most likely be selling my KGST in a month as soon as I decide on which TOTL amp to drive the SR007 with (Carbon/Grounding Grid).  It has a bigger power supply than the usual KGST shd other bits which I can send you via pm. But it is fast and punchy with a warm signature.  Good pairing with SR009. It's a 240v version (Europe/Auz/NZ).


----------



## Rossliew

Is that a Soren built KGST? good stuff there.


----------



## Rhamnetin

phaeton70 said:


> Hi, new staxer here  ..
> 
> well, actually not new, in the past I had a 507+323 combo for a while, but sold them a while ago. And I have used a 009+BHSE for a long time (not mine unfortunately)
> 
> ...



A KGST is the safest bet followed by the KGSSHV (one with a warmer sound) for synergy's sake. I've seen used KGSSHV Carbons get close to that in price but the build quality of those are suspect, ask for internal shots and parts choice before going for one (and if you aren't knowledgeable enough to judge, ask someone who is).

I have an unrelated question: How is the DIY-T2's bass compared to that of the KGSSHV Carbon or Grounded Grid?


----------



## 336881

purk said:


> Any more impression on the SRM-D10?



Yeah. They changed the name to Mjolnir Octave v2 and schiit modi multibit.


----------



## phaeton70

thanks for all the feedbacks, now I got some interesting options to evaluate.

out of curiosity, let's say I can spend 6k, would the BHSE form Mjolnir be my endgame? (....warm and rich sound)


----------



## Rhamnetin (Jul 29, 2018)

phaeton70 said:


> thanks for all the feedbacks, now I got some interesting options to evaluate.
> 
> out of curiosity, let's say I can spend 6k, would the BHSE form Mjolnir be my endgame? (....warm and rich sound)



BHSE has some downsides such as ~50 minute warm up time, you have to monitor how the tubes are running from time to time and occasionally readjust, and tube rolling requires biasing the new tubes most of the time as far as I'm aware. But, when it's running optimally and when it's warmed up, indeed the sound is fantastic.

I could have gotten a BHSE, but those inconveniences along with the KGSSHV Carbon having better bass pointed me towards getting the latter instead. The KGSSHV Carbon also has better sound stage according to everyone I've seen extensively use both, and costs substantially less, so was a win-win in my book (though you could get Birgir's Carbon CC and not save any money haha).

If you manage to find a Grounded Grid for sale, you can get that if it looks like a good build. The Grounded Grid is basically a KGSSHV Carbon but with a tube output stage (6CA7/EL34). I'm guessing it combines the best of both worlds of the KGSSHV Carbon and the BHSE, including convenience (it has a servo to monitor the output, no need to monitor or bias anything). But good luck finding one!


----------



## SeaWo|f

phaeton70 said:


> out of curiosity, let's say I can spend 6k, would the BHSE form Mjolnir be my endgame? (....warm and rich sound)



It's an end game amp but I wouldn't call it a warm rich sound. Maybe you can get that type of sound out of it with some tube rolling? Spritzer bhse is neutral and punchy. It has a very solid sound to it but never thick.


----------



## phaeton70 (Jul 29, 2018)

@ Rhamnetin ,  SeaWo|f
ok, thanks, lot of food for tought indeed


----------



## Rhamnetin

SeaWo|f said:


> It's an end game amp but I wouldn't call it a warm rich sound. Maybe you can get that type of sound out of it with some tube rolling? Spritzer bhse is neutral and punchy. It has a very solid sound to it but never thick.



Yeah, maybe the Megatron leans towards warm and rich? I have no idea about that one. I'd say the BHSE and KGSSHV Carbon (and presumably Grounded Grid) are all mostly neutral sounding, the Carbon usually slightly brighter and punchier than the BHSE.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Yea I have heard the GG described as mostly similar sounding to the BHSE. If they are coming from the same builder with consistent parts choices. 

The megatron if you can find someone to build it is not that expensive parts wise, but it is a lot of chassis work and powering the thing is not simple. I suspect that is why you never see them in the FS. The megatron also has 8 caps in the signal path and what you opt to put there will have an effect on the sound, along with the input and output tubes. IDK how the CCS tubes would effect the sound?

FWIW resale wise tube based KG amps always go quick and retain value. Community preference I guess. Carbons from the right builders hold value as well, but not quite at the level of the tubed amps.


----------



## Whitigir

Depends on the choices of components in a Megatron.  If you think 12 Tubes are cheap, and those juicy Audiophile capacitors .  However, Megatron is an all Tubes designs, and I have seen some people been asking for it.


----------



## SeaWo|f

@Whitigir don't you have a board for the megatron too


----------



## Whitigir

SeaWo|f said:


> @Whitigir don't you have a board for the megatron too



Yeah, it is another addiction, I keep buying boards, and stuff aside....I have spare T2 boards, and parts, and plethora of other things Roflmao ..... Crazy enough, I don’t have any craving to build Megatron anytime.  Who knows  ?


----------



## mulveling

@phaeton70 
Yes, as others have mentioned, the KGST and the "warm" variant of KGSShv are 2 great choices for your parameters. But for that KGSShv, you have to be _very_ sure it's the right version, because ALL other KGSShv's are very different tonally, and even can lean towards brightness. The warm one is the full-sized model with 450V Sanyo parts and off-board heatsinks, like astrostar used to own. I think it came along just after the 1st model with 500V IXYS parts and onboard heatsinks (more neutral tone on that one, but also a favorite of mine that I still have). I also owned a 450V a while back - it's a great 009 amp for the money! You can probably find a Carbon for your price, and it will be superior to the other2 amps, but certainly won't satisfy your desire for warmth. 

Also look into JimL11's SRX-Plus, I haven't heard one but it seems really cool, and he really knows his stuff.


----------



## mulveling

Whitigir said:


> Yeah, it is another addiction, I keep buying boards, and stuff aside....I have spare T2 boards, and parts, and plethora of other things Roflmao ..... Crazy enough, I don’t have any craving to build Megatron anytime.  Who knows  ?


Make sure you have a will to direct that the most OOP/unobtanium Stax amp parts go to other Stax enthusiasts


----------



## Whitigir

mulveling said:


> Make sure you have a will to direct that the most OOP/unobtanium Stax amp parts go to other Stax enthusiasts


Will trade Unobtainum for Opium


----------



## kevin gilmore

The megatron has 4 caps in the signal path, one for each stator.
No input cap, no output cap.


----------



## Contrails

Rossliew said:


> Is that a Soren built KGST? good stuff there.



Indeed.  It has the same foot print as an AV receiver.   I find it hard to believe that a Carbon/Grounding Grid would be an improvement over this but if everyone says so...

My next amp will definitely be getting built by him.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Contrails said:


> Indeed.  It has the same foot print as an AV receiver.   I find it hard to believe that a Carbon/Grounding Grid would be an improvement over this but if everyone says so...
> 
> My next amp will definitely be getting built by him.



I don't find it hard to believe. Much more power, better power supply designs... I haven't listened to a KGST or KGSSHV (for which the output stage runs at less than half that of my KGSSHV Carbon) but according to everyone, they are not even close to the higher end amps. I know the KGSS certainly isn't. KGSS to KGSSHV Carbon or BHSE is such a big difference... actually in hindsight it almost is hard to believe.


----------



## Whitigir

Rhamnetin said:


> I don't find it hard to believe. Much more power, better power supply designs... I haven't listened to a KGST or KGSSHV (for which the output stage runs at less than half that of my KGSSHV Carbon) but according to everyone, they are not even close to the higher end amps. I know the KGSS certainly isn't. KGSS to KGSSHV Carbon or BHSE is such a big difference... actually in hindsight it almost is hard to believe.



That is because people got ripped-off for too long, they got brainwashed 0_0 and their view of price/performances ratio is distorted


----------



## Contrails

Man I wish I had jumped on the Stax train earlier. But hey, better late than never.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Thank you for the correction @kevin gilmore 

Here is a strategy for anyone wanting a megatron: wait for @Whitigir to build his and compare it to his T2. When he declares the T2 is still king pick it up from him!


----------



## Whitigir

SeaWo|f said:


> Thank you for the correction @kevin gilmore
> 
> Here is a strategy for anyone wanting a megatron: wait for @Whitigir to build his and compare it to his T2. When he declares the T2 is still king pick it up from him!



Common  I have spent too much money this year LOL.  I know sir KG said it wouldn’t hang around the T2 though


----------



## Rossliew

Megatron is all tube whilst T2 is hybrid?


----------



## SeaWo|f (Jul 29, 2018)

Megatron is all tube, with solid state power supply. There are 2sa1968s used on board. I think there is one other transistor on the amp board.

Not sure which parts of the t2 are SS.

Edit: @Whitigir fwiw there is one amp you could recover your cost on and sell immediately I think the megatron is it. Interest sseems very high with that one.


----------



## Whitigir

SeaWo|f said:


> Megatron is all tube, with solid state power supply. There are 2sa1968s used on board. I think there is one other transistor on the amp board.
> 
> _Not sure which parts of the t2 are SS_.



Too many >.< lol


----------



## 336881

Rhamnetin said:


> I don't find it hard to believe. Much more power, better power supply designs... I haven't listened to a KGST or KGSSHV (for which the output stage runs at less than half that of my KGSSHV Carbon) but according to everyone, they are not even close to the higher end amps. I know the KGSS certainly isn't. KGSS to KGSSHV Carbon or BHSE is such a big difference... actually in hindsight it almost is hard to believe.



For sr-007 and 009 yes, but my 404LE? Just me but I think a KGSS, KGSSHV or KGST will be plenty, and still be quite top tier as far as headphones go.


----------



## JimL11

Whitigir said:


> Common  I have spent too much money this year LOL.  I know sir KG said it wouldn’t hang around the T2 though



Well, here is what KG said about the Megatron when he introduced it in 2012:  "This is absolutely at the T2/BHSE level."


----------



## mulveling (Jul 29, 2018)

T2 and BHSE don't belong at the same level! Both occupy the very high level, no doubt. But the KG T2 resides above that. We aren't even talking diminishing returns here. I think KG (apologies in advance, not trying to speak for him) just meant to say that the Megatron is a very excellent amp!



antimatter said:


> For sr-007 and 009 yes, but my 404LE? Just me but I think a KGSS, KGSSHV or KGST will be plenty, and still be quite top tier as far as headphones go.


The L700, at least, scales nicely up through KGST <= BHSE <= T2 levels. Not as nicely as the Omegas, but still nicely.


----------



## JimL11

SeaWo|f said:


> Megatron is all tube, with solid state power supply. There are 2sa1968s used on board. I think there is one other transistor on the amp board.
> 
> Not sure which parts of the t2 are SS.
> 
> Edit: @Whitigir fwiw there is one amp you could recover your cost on and sell immediately I think the megatron is it. Interest sseems very high with that one.



Most of the modern "tube" electrostatic amps have some solid state, so they could all be called hybrid. The difference is whether the solid state acts as "support" elements, or are part of the amplification chain. So, to break it down:

1)  The following have solid state front end and intermediate amplification stages:

Stax SRM-T1, SRM-006, SRM-007

Gilmore KGST, Blue Hawaii, Grounded grid

2)  The following have tube input stage and solid state intermediate and output amplification stages:

Stax SRM-T8000

3)  The following have tube input and output stages, but solid state intermediate amplification stages:

Stax SRM-T2 and DIY T2

4)  The following have all tube amplification stages but use solid state current sources and/or current loads to set the operating conditions:

SRX Plus

KG Megatron

5)  The only amps that do not have any solid state in the amp circuit are [note that I have not seen the schematics of these so this is partly conjecture]:

HeadAmp Aristaeus

Woo GES, WES and 3ES

All of the Stax amps have passive power supplies. AFAIK the Woo amps also have passive power supplies. The main advantages of passive power supplies are low cost and less space. 

All of the KG amps, the Aristaeus, and the SRX Plus have solid state regulated power supplies.

If you consider hybrid amps to be those that use any solid state in the amplifying circuit, then only the last category are tube amps, and the rest are hybrid. OTOH, if you consider hybrid amps to be only those that use solid state to amplify the audio signal, then the last two categories would be considered tube amps.


----------



## Jones Bob

One minor addition to your Group 3, Jim. 

Kevin’s Sandwich amp made public in the DIY T-8000 thread “over there”. 
Essentially, it’s a Grounded Grid with vacuum tube input with SS intermediate current tunnel. The design and amplifier PCB is complete, but I don’t know of anyone who’s built it yet. I’d like to try it one day, but will take a major rework to my Grounded Grid Power Supply.


----------



## koven

Just hopped on the ES train w/ the 009 + KGSSHV.. I've only heard Stax in suboptimal showroom conditions so it'll be nice to try this combo at home. 
I have a Utopia and LCD4 paired with a Liquid Gold which I enjoy a lot, I can't imagine how much better a Stax might sound so I'm trying to temper my expectations a bit...


----------



## Rhamnetin

koven said:


> Just hopped on the ES train w/ the 009 + KGSSHV.. I've only heard Stax in suboptimal showroom conditions so it'll be nice to try this combo at home.
> I have a Utopia and LCD4 paired with a Liquid Gold which I enjoy a lot, I can't imagine how much better a Stax might sound so I'm trying to temper my expectations a bit...



Hope you like it and it's good to keep your expectations in check. I went from an LCD-4 + Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar to the SR-009 + KGSSHV Carbon very recently. The LCD-4 was already beaten by the ZMF Ori to my ears (entirely due to treble), but the SR-009 makes the LCD-4 sound like a headphone worth 1/10th the price to me. And to think I was actually tempering my expectations too... I was just that blown away.

Side note, can anyone comment on T2 vs KGSSHV Carbon or Grounded Grid bass?


----------



## mulveling (Jul 29, 2018)

Rhamnetin said:


> Side note, can anyone comment on T2 vs KGSSHV Carbon or Grounded Grid bass?


OMG, T2 is really that much better. Not too-too much absolute terms of wallop, but overall it just sounds so much more realistic, natural, alive and dynamic. I'll shut up now (for a bit) 

@koven you bought one of my Utopia, and they are really great! But my heart always belongs to Stax.


----------



## koven

Rhamnetin said:


> Hope you like it and it's good to keep your expectations in check. I went from an LCD-4 + Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar to the SR-009 + KGSSHV Carbon very recently. The LCD-4 was already beaten by the ZMF Ori to my ears (entirely due to treble), but the SR-009 makes the LCD-4 sound like a headphone worth 1/10th the price to me. And to think I was actually tempering my expectations too... I was just that blown away.



I just noticed your signature says selling non-ES because Stax is just too good..... I may just be sharing that sentiment in the near future.. we shall see 



mulveling said:


> OMG, T2 is really that much better. Not too-too much absolute terms of wallop, but overall it just sounds so much more realistic, natural, alive and dynamic. I'll shut up now (for a bit)
> 
> @koven you bought one of my Utopia, and they are really great! But my heart always belongs to Stax.



Yup still enjoying your (my) Utopia a lot, but it is time for me to enter the Stax world. I see you've gone all-in w/ the T2...


----------



## Mystel

QUOTE="Rhamnetin, post: 14390746, member: 399683"]Hope you like it and it's good to keep your expectations in check. I went from an LCD-4 + Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar to the SR-009 + KGSSHV Carbon very recently. The LCD-4 was already beaten by the ZMF Ori to my ears (entirely due to treble), but the SR-009 makes the LCD-4 sound like a headphone worth 1/10th the price to me. And to think I was actually tempering my expectations too... I was just that blown away.

Side note, can anyone comment on T2 vs KGSSHV Carbon or Grounded Grid bass?[/QUOTE]

Well i got rid of the LCD4 and Utopia immediately when i entered staxes last year, completely no comparison there
Anyway there was a month when i had both the T2 and Carbon in my place
Bass is the only area whereby i MIGHT prefer the carbon over the T2
I felt the bass on the carbon was tighter, more of a solid state kind of bass. Fast and clean
Whereas the T2 was just ever so slightly boomy, just a little.
Both slams just as hard.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Jones Bob said:


> One minor addition to your Group 3, Jim.
> 
> Kevin’s Sandwich amp made public in the DIY T-8000 thread “over there”.
> Essentially, it’s a Grounded Grid with vacuum tube input with SS intermediate current tunnel. The design and amplifier PCB is complete, but I don’t know of anyone who’s built it yet. I’d like to try it one day, but will take a major rework to my Grounded Grid Power Supply.



Yea it seems like that project stalled some time last year. I think Joamat has a -mostly- working example. 

It is interesting, I'd have thought people would be all over it.


----------



## kevin gilmore

The reason why I did the sandwich amp is because the servo on the t8000 has major issues which require extremely tight matching of the sections of the input tube.
The few people that have shoved expensive NOS (and probably fake) tubes into the thing have found out the hard way, you can't adjust the zero and offset.
Sales of the t8000 are evidently much better than I expected, luckily most people are not messing with them.

Tubes as the input stage rarely make any kind of sense, just more complicated, more noise, more high voltage power supplies, and dc coupling requires current mirrors (which have to be solid state)


----------



## Jones Bob

Thanks for the backstory Kevin. 
Guess I’ll stay happy with my Grounded Grid.


----------



## yakaway

Mystel,  I recently got my T2. We have a lot of similar gear. Abyss, utopias, t2 etc.
What tubes are you running in the t2


----------



## 336881

mulveling said:


> The L700, at least, scales nicely up through KGST <= BHSE <= T2 levels. Not as nicely as the Omegas, but still nicely.



If someone already had a sr-007 and Carbon and did not feel like spending $4k on the sr-009 I could see the L-700 making sense but that is about as far as I would go.

I think secret sauce is actually in the pre. We got pretty stunning results out of buke9's little old stax amp with fairly high end stax headphones including the sr-009 at the St.Louis meet. I think allot of people thought it was the cd player but as the guy who owns the stuff I'm quite convinced it was the C-2301.

My Mjolnir Octave v2 decided to break down the day of the St.Louis meet so we did not get to see how well everything would have scaled but I feel that amp is way more than sufficient with the C-2301 in place for the 404LE's and that is my fav. lambda for sure.


----------



## SeaWo|f

yakaway said:


> Mystel,  I recently got my T2. We have a lot of similar gear. Abyss, utopias, t2 etc.
> What tubes are you running in the t2



For the diy t2 and any of the kg amps that use el34 output tubes the most sought after NOS types are typically the mullard xf2 and philips holland metal base. At a much lower price the SED winged 'C' is very well liked.

Not sure what people are liking for input tubes.


----------



## Jones Bob

A lot of folks also like the Dutch DD getter brown base Philips too. Late ‘50s, early ‘60s vintage. Made in Holland or Belgium. A nice tube, if you can find it.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Has anyone ever completed a Grounded Grid using EML 20B-V4 tubes?


----------



## SeaWo|f

I know a few have modified their amps to use them for testing purposes. 

WARNING if you try to do this by just using adapters or something with out other modifications you will blow up your amp.

Not sure about people building from the DHT boards, but a few got them in a group buy recently.


----------



## Rhamnetin

SeaWo|f said:


> I know a few have modified their amps to use them for testing purposes.
> 
> WARNING if you try to do this by just using adapters or something with out other modifications you will blow up your amp.
> 
> Not sure about people building from the DHT boards, but a few got them in a group buy recently.



Yeah, I've only seen people test with them. Would sure love to see a functional Grounded Grid that uses them. I'm really curious what HeadAmp's next electrostatic amp will be...

Funny how I'm so satisfied by my current setup yet I'm already looking into the future.


----------



## SeaWo|f (Jul 31, 2018)

I think the communitys inaction has rendered a verdict on them. They are a very expensive -at the level of the most sought after nos tubes-, very limiting -no rolling options-, novelty that brings nothing new to the table.

Unless someone wants to spend 2k just to be different and never change tubes.

That's the market for them, it seems to consist of zero people.

Edit:: disclaimer, comments only apply to them as a direct substitution for triode strapped el34 or c6a7.


----------



## Jones Bob

SeaWo|f said:


> I know a few have modified their amps to use them for testing purposes.
> 
> WARNING if you try to do this by just using adapters or something with out other modifications you will blow up your amp.
> 
> Not sure about people building from the DHT boards, but a few got them in a group buy recently.



One would need separate and independent filament supplies for each DHT.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Heater is also 5v if I remember correctly. I was also told they REALLY hate to be out of spec.


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 31, 2018)

Ok, actually, it is very pointless to discuss these matters here.  Unless you yourself is also a builder, and want to experiment with it, then it would be on another side of the moon .  Yes, there have been tested and working EMB.  IMO for a DIY, it is not worth it.  The reasons are as @SeaWo|f just mentioned

Today I tossed my T2 and DAC a warm pair of IC cables (litz Cardas) and my SR009 is slamming my brain out.....WwuuutttTT ? Stax has no bass ? Yeah right, come to my place, it would shake your brain out LOL with quality bass, not cheap imitation bass



Mystel said:


> QUOTE="Rhamnetin, post: 14390746, member: 399683"]Hope you like it and it's good to keep your expectations in check. I went from an LCD-4 + Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar to the SR-009 + KGSSHV Carbon very recently. The LCD-4 was already beaten by the ZMF Ori to my ears (entirely due to treble), but the SR-009 makes the LCD-4 sound like a headphone worth 1/10th the price to me. And to think I was actually tempering my expectations too... I was just that blown away.
> 
> Side note, can anyone comment on T2 vs KGSSHV Carbon or Grounded Grid bass?



Well i got rid of the LCD4 and Utopia immediately when i entered staxes last year, completely no comparison there
Anyway there was a month when i had both the T2 and Carbon in my place
Bass is the only area whereby i MIGHT prefer the carbon over the T2
I felt the bass on the carbon was tighter, more of a solid state kind of bass. Fast and clean
Whereas the T2 was just ever so slightly boomy, just a little.
Both slams just as hard.


[/QUOTE]

I am seeing JJ Tubes, and while I like them a lot, they are not the level of XF2 which will change your T2 sound performances, and it also pulls BHSE/GG toward in performances as well

I like ECC88 SQ from Phillips for Input Tubes


----------



## Rhamnetin

Whitigir said:


> Today I tossed my T2 and DAC a warm pair of IC cables (litz Cardas) and my SR009 is slamming my brain out.....WwuuutttTT ? Stax has no bass ? Yeah right, come to my place, it would shake your brain out LOL with quality bass, not cheap imitation bass



Yeah tell me about it. With a Carbon, my SR-009 makes any HiFiMan planar seem bass light (and muddy/blurry).


----------



## SeaWo|f

Yea the stats bass myth never seems to go away.

Lower tier stats and under driven omega series are unfortunately the way most are introduced to stats. So this will probably never change.


----------



## Rhamnetin

SeaWo|f said:


> Yea the stats bass myth never seems to go away.
> 
> Lower tier stats and under driven omega series are unfortunately the way most are introduced to stats. So this will probably never change.



I initially went straight for the SR-007. It's clear based on... all reviews and feedback that the Omegas are in a completely different league than the Lambdas so I just skipped the Lambdas.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Yea the current expense is a unfortunate. 

At ~2k for the 007

~2k for an amp

And ~1k minimum for a dac

5ish to get a system with out any significant compromises.


----------



## Rhamnetin

SeaWo|f said:


> Yea the current expense is a unfortunate.
> 
> At ~2k for the 007
> 
> ...



Buying used is your friend! I see SR-007A's and MK2's for sale here for $1100-1300, and my SR-009 cost me $2500 thanks to JimL11 (and $2600-2700 seems to be a common going rate). But yeah you're looking at around $2k minimum for a KGSSHV.


----------



## 336881

Rhamnetin said:


> I initially went straight for the SR-007. It's clear based on... all reviews and feedback that the Omegas are in a completely different league than the Lambdas so I just skipped the Lambdas.



The 404LE and Koss esp950 are pretty good.


----------



## 336881

SeaWo|f said:


> Yea the current expense is a unfortunate.
> 
> At ~2k for the 007
> 
> ...



$500 Stax 404LE (For being limited they sure are on yahoo.jp all the time)

$1200 Mjolnir Octave v2 (Ready to be shipped)

$250 Keces da-151mk2 (Oldie but goodie and very good looking as well)

Less than $2k for all 3 items. It may not be my 007mk1, 500v kgsshv and Metrum Pavane that I used to own, but it is way closer than it should be given the price discrepancies.


----------



## oneguy

Rhamnetin said:


> I initially went straight for the SR-007. It's clear based on... all reviews and feedback that the Omegas are in a completely different league than the Lambdas so I just skipped the Lambdas.



Your loss. You missed out on the L700 glory! It is truly an amazing headphone. The L700 is one of my top 2 favorite Stax headphones.


----------



## JimL11 (Jul 31, 2018)

SeaWo|f said:


> Yea the current expense is a unfortunate.
> 
> At ~2k for the 007
> 
> ...





Rhamnetin said:


> Buying used is your friend! I see SR-007A's and MK2's for sale here for $1100-1300, and my SR-009 cost me $2500 thanks to JimL11 (and $2600-2700 seems to be a common going rate). But yeah you're looking at around $2k minimum for a KGSSHV.




The two major strategies to save money in this hobby are: 1) buy used, and 2) DIY.
In fact the only things I bought new were a few vinyl cartridges, a tonearm, and a DAC, and the latter was partially funded by selling off a couple of pieces of equipment. Everything else I either bought used (turntables, FM tuner, CD/SACD player, power amp, speakers, headphones) or built (phono preamp, line preamp, turntable plinths, etc.). In fact, the reason I got into DIY in the first place was because I couldn't afford stuff otherwise.

And you don't have to start building from scratch. Modifying a used Stax amp is a good start and inexpensive. A 727 with global feedback mod is reportedly relatively close to a KGSS, and costs a good soldering iron, some solder and 4 resistors. A T1 with constant current load mod is $100 in parts, and a day of soldering, drilling holes and mounting a heat sink, and gets you fairly close to a KGST. For the same money (i.e. significantly less than $1k), you can build an SRX Plus but that is DIY only, so quite a bit more work.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Yea the diy route is a great way to go for many reasons besides simply money saved. And the community here and there is always willing to help, some sarcasm and judging aside 

Once the kids start back at school and I have time I will need to lean on those here and there who are much more versed in these areas than me.


----------



## chinsettawong

And DIY is fun!


----------



## Rhamnetin

chinsettawong said:


> And DIY is fun!



I'm a noob so I need a simple design and a fully loaded kit with extremely detailed instructions w/ pictures like Bottlehead.


----------



## chinsettawong

Don't be afraid to fail.  You'll learn it faster that way.


----------



## Tinkerer

Rhamnetin said:


> I will if people are able to build KGSSHV Carbon Nanotube amps! Hopefully the explosions during assembly will be figured out and avoided in the future. If so, I think they'll cost less than the T2 since from what I can tell, parts cost is much less.



We did get it to stop exploding. It has to do with powering it up slowly enough that the servo and bridge can keep up. I just used a couple small variacs but there's probably a more elegant solution with a thermister or timer circuit or something. The real issue now is killing the noise the ungrounded 900VDC High voltage PSU's pick up. I'll get new version boards for those soon though, as soon as those TDK pots come in for the GB. Don't know what a T2 parts cost is but even cobbling together my CIrclotron case out of a server cabinet kit and giant recycled heatsinks instead of a custom machined monster, it's been over 3K in parts and stuff. But the nice thing is I get to run it as a regular Carbon in the meantime. So I don't feel deprived or anything.


----------



## GarageBoy

DIY stax is interesting, it varies between "go do it, it's fun!" to "you will shock yourself and die!"

I wish there was a well organized site somewhere with schematics and maybe a guide and glossary (googled for hours trying to figure out what a ccs does)


Still looking forward to building an srx+ once I practice some soldering, and learn some terminology


----------



## Whitigir

GarageBoy said:


> DIY stax is interesting, it varies between "go do it, it's fun!" to "you will shock yourself and die!"
> 
> I wish there was a well organized site somewhere with schematics and maybe a guide and glossary (googled for hours trying to figure out what a ccs does)
> 
> ...



There is a dedicated place for this, with schematic, boards, discussions, and enthusiastic folks to help.  However, you will need some basic electrical skills in the first place.  I ventured down this road, and it isn’t horrible.  You just need to keep on reading and pulling some brain stems


----------



## JimL11 (Aug 1, 2018)

chinsettawong said:


> And DIY is fun!



Well, there's that too. And you learn about the technology, which makes you much less likely to buy into the hype.



GarageBoy said:


> DIY stax is interesting, it varies between "go do it, it's fun!" to "you will shock yourself and die!"
> 
> I wish there was a well organized site somewhere with schematics and maybe a guide and glossary (googled for hours trying to figure out what a ccs does)
> 
> ...



So, a CCS (constant current source) does basically what the term says - it provides a constant current regardless of what is going on in the circuit elsewhere. One way is to think of it as a current battery, or alternatively as a very high resistance - over 100 megohms for a good one. Just as a perfect voltage battery supplies a steady voltage regardless of how much current you pull out of it, a perfect current "battery" provides a steady current regardless of what the voltage across it is. Or to put it another way, a perfect current source produces a totally steady DC current, but it does not allow any signal (AC) electrons into or out of it. This means that it is in the circuit to set the standing current (DC) but it is out of the circuit in terms of the signal (AC).

Why is this useful in an electrostatic headphone amp? Well, back in the old days, the output device (we'll use a tube for simplicity) was loaded by a resistor - the resistor sets the standing current (the current with no signal). For example, if you Google the original SRX circuit, the output tube is connected to a 50 kilohm resistor, and a 250 kilohm feedback resistor. The headphone is connected in parallel to these resistors. This means that when the tube produces an audio signal, the current in that signal is divided between the headphone, making sound, and the resistors (by Ohm's law, V = IR, so any signal voltage has to produce a corresponding current in the plate resistor), producing heat. For an electrostatic amp, the output plate resistance is usually around 50 kilohms give or take (for example, in the Stax T1 it is 66k, in the 007 it is 47k). OTOH, the impedance of the stat headphone is generally higher, ranging from around 80 kilohms at 20 kHz to 80 megohms at 20 Hz (note that this only reflects the capacitative part, there is more to it, as an ideal capacitor does not make any sound!). Since a lower impedance draws more current, this means that most of the signal current is burned up in the resistor rather than driving the headphone - in fact, at, say 260 Hz (middle C on the piano), about 99% of the signal current is burned up in the plate resistor and feedback resistors, .

Now, substitute a CCS for the output resistor. Now the tables are turned - the resistance of the CCS is much higher than the headphones, so very little, if any of the signal current goes into the CCS -the feedback resistor still sucks up some current, but only a fifth as much. So there is much more signal current available to drive the headphones. Not only is this more efficient (less wasted signal) but distortion is lower because the tube doesn't have to produce nearly as much current to provide the same output - for the SRX Plus, only about 1/5th as much. If you've ever looked at the distortion curves for a SS speaker amp, you'll notice that the distortion for 4 ohms is generally higher than it is for 8 ohms - because a 4 ohm load draws more current. So, as it can supply more current to the headphone, the output tube becomes effectively much more powerful. Finally, the CCS effectively isolates the output tube from the power supply, because any voltage perturbations in the power supply are blocked from affecting the output (remember, in AC terms it doesn't exist). The result is it can play louder AND cleaner. Sonically this results in tighter, punchier bass, more detail and better highs. It sounds more powerful because it effectively IS more powerful. That is why all the modern KG amps, and all the Stax solid state amps, use a CCS to load their output stage.

Now, the CCS is also used in the tail of the differential amps in the input and output stages of the SRX Plus. Here, they function to optimize the balance of the diff amp. Think of it this way: imagine a signal electron traveling down one side of the diff amp. When it hits the tail CCS, it cannot go into it, so it has to "bounce" off it and go up the other side of the diff amp. This means that any signal on one side of the diff amp is "reflected" in the opposite phase on the other side of the diff amp, thus balancing the output signal. The other benefit of the CCS, is, again, it isolates the diff amp from any noise or crap in the negative power supply.

So, if this wasn't too complicated, you now know what a CCS can do, and how they work in the SRX Plus.


----------



## JimL11

Tinkerer said:


> We did get it to stop exploding. It has to do with powering it up slowly enough that the servo and bridge can keep up. I just used a couple small variacs but there's probably a more elegant solution with a thermister or timer circuit or something. The real issue now is killing the noise the ungrounded 900VDC High voltage PSU's pick up. I'll get new version boards for those soon though, as soon as those TDK pots come in for the GB. Don't know what a T2 parts cost is but even cobbling together my CIrclotron case out of a server cabinet kit and giant recycled heatsinks instead of a custom machined monster, it's been over 3K in parts and stuff. But the nice thing is I get to run it as a regular Carbon in the meantime. So I don't feel deprived or anything.



Reminds me of a review of a British car in Road & Track several decades ago, where they said an owner had driven it across country and boasted that "it only caught fire once."


----------



## Contrails (Aug 1, 2018)

> Your loss. You missed out on the L700 glory! It is truly an amazing headphone. The L700 is one of my top 2 favorite Stax headphones.



It is a very good headphone but it is not up to the same level as the SR007.

I have heard the L700 and SR007mk1.  But 007 was a clear preference for me.  More detailed and tighter especially in the Bass, bigger soundstage but imaging is the same.   Both fall short of the HD800 in terms of imaging.  Sr007 is more comfortable, L700 more sparkle in the treble whereas the 007 is a little laid back.  The L700 has a slight U shape FR especially with the slight mid-bass hump and thus is a fun sounding headphone, SR007 is more balanced.  Now, here's the best part - I have only heard the SR007 mk1 out of a KGST so you could say the SR007 isn't even playing at it's best yet.


----------



## GarageBoy (Aug 1, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> There is a dedicated place for this, with schematic, boards, discussions, and enthusiastic folks to help.  However, you will need some basic electrical skills in the first place.  I ventured down this road, and it isn’t horrible.  You just need to keep on reading and pulling some brain stems



Yeah, I've seen that and have lurked around, but ever since Kevin retired, the links are broken and it takes some chasing looking for the correct files (especially when there are quite a few variants) (i.e. which Golden Reference HV and LV files are the correct ones?!)
Also, not everyone is as newbie friendly as you and JimL11 are (btw: thanks for the explanation - have learned a lot from reading your posts)

I already bought the issues of audioxpress pertaining to the SRX+, and that's where I may start (may do it point to point, as that's how my dad built his speaker amps, and hopefully, he'll be helping me out)


----------



## SeaWo|f

Files have been moved to his Google drive, also a few other people's drives, all links to drives in the same place. An easy short cut to see what the current files are is to keep an eye on the recent group buys. Realistically you should do this anyway unless you need a minimum of 5 boards at a relatively high cost.


----------



## oneguy

Contrails said:


> It is a very good headphone but it is not up to the same level as the SR007.
> 
> I have heard the L700 and SR007mk1.  But 007 was a clear preference for me.  More detailed and tighter especially in the Bass, bigger soundstage but imaging is the same.   Both fall short of the HD800 in terms of imaging.  Sr007 is more comfortable, L700 more sparkle in the treble whereas the 007 is a little laid back.  The L700 has a slight U shape FR especially with the slight mid-bass hump and thus is a fun sounding headphone, SR007 is more balanced.  Now, here's the best part - I have only heard the SR007 mk1 out of a KGST so you could say the SR007 isn't even playing at it's best yet.



We’ll have to agree to disagree on that one. I wouldn’t trade my L700 for 007 or 009 any day of the week.


----------



## Tinkerer

JimL11 said:


> Reminds me of a review of a British car in Road & Track several decades ago, where they said an owner had driven it across country and boasted that "it only caught fire once."



That's not too far off track. Except I wish it had only caught fire once. Perils of being one of the first people to build something I suppose. Reading the first few pages of the original KGSSHV thread is a similar hoot.


----------



## gilency

my first build was a CMoy, then the Xstata, then KGSSHV (2) and then a Megatron. If I can do it, anybody can.


----------



## tigon_ridge

weasel1979 said:


> Whitigir, I wasnt talking about dynamic headphones, I dont like their sound compared to planars and electrostates, they dont stand a chance imo. But between planars and electostates, I am very interested to keep seeing that battle unfold. Its a great time for headphones and yes, I also love Stax headphones, but that doesnt mean I think they are perfect at EVERYthing, come on.



My reply here is pretty late. I've heard many good dynamics and 2 good planars, and to me good dynamics and planars sound too similar to say that planars are categorically in a higher league. I was having trouble deciding whether I preferred the HD600 or the HE560. In the end, I decided to keep the former and sell the latter, because the HE560 felt less intimate while being much more expensive. Maybe it was due to the lack of having golden ears, but I did not detect a significant difference in detail resolution or soundstage/imaging between them out of my bifrost -> schiit mjolnir combo. I'm not crazy about sub-bass, so losing the better bass extension of the HE560 wasn't a big deal to me. My current dynamic headphones, an ATH-AD1000x, I prefer to any planar I've ever heard...and the AD1000x is powered by a very low-power amp (well, because these headphones are extremely efficient). IMHO, planar bass is overrated. They're good, but not the end all and be all. I like the clean, but powerful bass that comes out of my AD1000x which, if my audio memory serves me well, has bass just as good as that of the two planars I'd owned. I expect electrostats to be clearly in another league in terms of resolution and imaging, based on Z Reviews' demos and so many STAX owners' testimonies.


----------



## SeaWo|f

pretty sure Z-reviews is mentally handy capped. If he isn't damn IDK what his excuse is.

If you are looking for semi risque anime wallpapers he is your guy. If you are looking for audio info keep looking. The vast majority of the stuff he says is factually wrong, so for that reason I would write off is subjective opinions too.


----------



## Rhamnetin

tigon_ridge said:


> My reply here is pretty late. I've heard many good dynamics and 2 good planars, and to me good dynamics and planars sound too similar to say that planars are categorically in a higher league. I was having trouble deciding whether I preferred the HD600 or the HE560. In the end, I decided to keep the former and sell the latter, because the HE560 felt less intimate while being much more expensive. Maybe it was due to the lack of having golden ears, but I did not detect a significant difference in detail resolution or soundstage/imaging between them out of my bifrost -> schiit mjolnir combo. I'm not crazy about sub-bass, so losing the better bass extension of the HE560 wasn't a big deal to me. My current dynamic headphones, an ATH-AD1000x, I prefer to any planar I've ever heard...and the AD1000x is powered by a very low-power amp (well, because these headphones are extremely efficient). IMHO, planar bass is overrated. They're good, but not the end all and be all. I like the clean, but powerful bass that comes out of my AD1000x which, if my audio memory serves me well, has bass just as good as that of the two planars I'd owned. I expect electrostats to be clearly in another league in terms of resolution and imaging, based on Z Reviews' demos and so many STAX owners' testimonies.



Like SeaWo|f indicated, Zeos is both unstable and unreliable, but yeah high end Stax is unlike anything else.

I used to be convinced that planars were in a clearly higher category than dynamics (I still think they are for bass, hard to deny that), the Focal Utopia made me question that again. I would need to own a Utopia and an HE1000 v2 or Susvara and A/B test them with top tier amplification, but I lost all interest thanks to Stax. I don't care anymore since any dynamic and planar gets obliterated by Stax to my ears.


----------



## JimL11

GarageBoy said:


> Yeah, I've seen that and have lurked around, but ever since Kevin retired, the links are broken and it takes some chasing looking for the correct files (especially when there are quite a few variants) (i.e. which Golden Reference HV and LV files are the correct ones?!)
> Also, not everyone is as newbie friendly as you and JimL11 are (btw: thanks for the explanation - have learned a lot from reading your posts)
> 
> I already bought the issues of audioxpress pertaining to the SRX+, and that's where I may start (may do it point to point, as that's how my dad built his speaker amps, and hopefully, he'll be helping me out)



One thing is, I have upgraded the power supply that was in the AUdioXpress articles, and no longer recommend the original, as line noise and crap can enter the amp via the negative supply line. Schematic of the upgraded supply is on another website, which also has a thread on building the amp and some comments on the sound quality. A number of builders have used one of the Gilmore power supplies, which should also work.


----------



## tigon_ridge

Rhamnetin said:


> Like SeaWo|f indicated, Zeos is both unstable and unreliable, but yeah high end Stax is unlike anything else.
> 
> I used to be convinced that planars were in a clearly higher category than dynamics (I still think they are for bass, hard to deny that), the Focal Utopia made me question that again. I would need to own a Utopia and an HE1000 v2 or Susvara and A/B test them with top tier amplification, but I lost all interest thanks to Stax. I don't care anymore since any dynamic and planar gets obliterated by Stax to my ears.





SeaWo|f said:


> pretty sure Z-reviews is mentally handy capped. If he isn't damn IDK what his excuse is.
> 
> If you are looking for semi risque anime wallpapers he is your guy. If you are looking for audio info keep looking. The vast majority of the stuff he says is factually wrong, so for that reason I would write off is subjective opinions too.



Wow, I can understand the dissenting opinions, but the character assassination?? I've only seen a few reviews of his, so maybe it's some of the ones I haven't seen that are the cause for all this hate. He has a very high opinion of electrostats and Stax, going so far as to say the highest-end dynamics aren't quite in the same league as even entry-level Stax, so I'm not sure why some Stax fans would hate him. Is it just because he hasn't heard high end Stax through wallet-destroying KG amps to give the SR-007/9 fair reviews? Is it because of the unsubstantiated claim that he single-handedly doubled the market price of the SR-207? Even so, all this hate is still a big mystery to me. He introduced a lot of people to Stax, at least.


----------



## Whitigir

tigon_ridge said:


> Wow, I can understand the dissenting opinions, but the character assassination?? I've only seen a few reviews of his, so maybe it's some of the ones I haven't seen that are the cause for all this hate. He has a very high opinion of electrostats and Stax, going so far as to say the highest-end dynamics aren't quite in the same league as even entry-level Stax, so I'm not sure why some Stax fans would hate him. Is it just because he hasn't heard high end Stax through wallet-destroying KG amps to give the SR-007/9 fair reviews? Is it because of the unsubstantiated claim that he single-handedly doubled the market price of the SR-207? Even so, all this hate is still a big mystery to me. He introduced a lot of people to Stax, at least.



Corrections! KG Amps are not wallet destroying, even if you buy BHSE.  To put them all together this nicely and all the dumb stuff people do......it is still too cheap for the price

KG amps are actually the best price/performances ratio, if you are willing to tackles up challenges.  Also great price/performances ratio that can not be find anywhere else if you buy or commissions it built


----------



## weasel1979 (Aug 2, 2018)

Z is hilarious. Have you seen his mods? Oh man, what a character, I dig him. And dont forget, its POV camera and its all done in one take. Dont take him so seriously, it is supposed to be different.

Plus, yeah, he loves Stax more than anything.


----------



## yakaway

This discussion of z review  offers nothing to this thread


----------



## weasel1979

To me it does.


----------



## SeaWo|f

My issue is with him getting very basic technical aspects of things wrong, and using that as a way to either steer people in one direction or another.

Also he reviews stats those interested in stats who listen to him should be warned.


----------



## purk

yakaway said:


> This discussion of z review  offers nothing to this thread



He's funny but I trust my own hearing more.


----------



## tigon_ridge

Whitigir said:


> Corrections! KG Amps are not wallet destroying, even if you buy BHSE.  To put them all together this nicely and all the dumb stuff people do......it is still too cheap for the price
> 
> KG amps are actually the best price/performances ratio, if you are willing to tackles up challenges.  Also great price/performances ratio that can not be find anywhere else if you buy or commissions it built



That may well be true, and I hope it is, but it would be nice if KG and his fellow engineers could design and implement a build that is meant to pair with entry-level Staxes. Pretty sure the SRM-252S  and SRM-353 could use some nice competition for people who don't have the income to shell out for the high-end Stax models. Every KG amp offers two orders of magnitude more power than any entry-level Stax requires. How about a lower-power, mini KGSShv that won't break the bank? It would serve as a gateway to the more powerful/pricy KG amps for Stax newbies.


----------



## SeaWo|f (Aug 2, 2018)

That's not a great option why make something that doesn't work well with all stats.

If you want a cheaper kg amp look at the kgdt or the cheap version of the kgsshv that spritzer has been working on for years.

Or the srx plus, or the current feed back amp that kg did recently.

Not all kg amps break the bank

Edit :: I know the srx plus isn't a kg amp. I just realized that isn't clear in the above post. Credit jiml.


----------



## tigon_ridge

SeaWo|f said:


> That's not a great option why make something that doesn't work well with all stats.
> 
> If you want a cheaper kg amp look at the kgdt or the cheap version of the kgsshv that spritzer has been working on for years.
> 
> ...



The cheap kgsshv, according to Birgir's site, goes for about $2.1k USD (correct me if I'm wrong). Still very expensive for someone who is content with an L300 but is curious about what all this infamous, widely touted KG magic has to offer.

"why make something that doesn't work well with all stats." Because not everyone is interested in all stats, for budgetary reasons. If audio manufacturers only offered high end models, their companies would be a fraction of their current size. It's generally the entry-level stuff that makes for the majority of their revenue. It turns out, most people aren't rich.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Lots of entry level gear is neutered in ways besides power. IDK how much making a lower power amp would reduce cost. Someone like Spritzer, KG or JimL would have to answer that one. 

Spritzer has relatively high cost because of the realities of living in Iceland. IDK how much the cheap kgsshv would run if he were building it in the states, but I'm guessing it could knock a not insignificant chunk off.


----------



## tigon_ridge

Yes, it seems the KGSShv designs are labor-intensive, such that even a low-power model with inexpensive components may still have a hefty price due to labor cost alone. Still, I'm curious of what the KG kingpins could manage to pull out of their hats.


----------



## purk

Not only that but KG amps are built at much smaller scale.  So his design will not be competitive at least price wise compared to lower-end Stax amps which are mass produced with lesser power supply.


----------



## tigon_ridge (Aug 2, 2018)

I thought so too, but hey, some people have adamantly claimed that KG amps are the best price/performance ratio, sooo maybe KG or Birgie can design and build an $0.8-1.2k amp that'll compel SRM-252s owners to upgrade to. Actually, I would prefer a DIY option in this regard. It would be a fun project for a starving college EE student like myself.


----------



## mulveling (Aug 2, 2018)

tigon_ridge said:


> It turns out, most people aren't rich.


That's not our so much concern, here in *SUMMIT-FI*. We can try to help out in the sub-2K amp range. It's just that the amps above that line are _so good_, and that comprises the bulk of our passion around these parts.

As mentioned in prior comments, there are still some very nice options below that $2.1K KGSShv (especially if you stick with good Lambdas for now), but it'll simply take more research and effort on your part. We can't always just tell you "here buy this", like in the other parts of head-fi. Stax the company, and its enthusiast community, has always bucked the trends of the typical audio industry - and you'll probably find that incredibly refreshing, once you jump in.

I've said this before, but the magic and excitement of the nascent high-end headphone community in the early days of head-fi - it mutated and/or dried up in the other parts of head-fi, and that feeling only remains in the Stax community.


----------



## Whitigir

Buy used, or put yourself into it (work harder, make more money, and DIY) or both.  Nothing good comes easy.


----------



## mulveling

Whitigir said:


> Buy used, or put yourself into it (work harder, make more money, and DIY) or both.  Nothing good comes easy.


This. Preach, brother Whitigir!


----------



## tigon_ridge

I've never found a used KGSShv that is advertised for less than the "cheap" version. There are people up to their heads in debt working part-time jobs while studying full-time and your suggestion is "work harder." That made me giggle.


----------



## SeaWo|f

work smarter?


----------



## purk

tigon_ridge said:


> I've never found a used KGSShv that is advertised for less than the "cheap" version. There are people up to their heads in debt working part-time jobs while studying full-time and your suggestion is "work harder." That made me giggle.



I saw a KGSS here for around $1100 used, why not just grab this amp and be happy?  I saw several used KGST for around $1500 as well...and that's a great price for such amp.  Otherwise, just be happy with the 323S or the 717 if you can buy one used for around $800 - 900.  Don't forget that casework alone isn't cheap either.


----------



## mulveling

tigon_ridge said:


> There are people up to their heads in debt working part-time jobs while studying full-time and your suggestion is "work harder." That made me giggle.


Then do nothing and be whiney and miserable? I didn’t start to acquire nice things until my career was well underway.


----------



## catscratch

I like z reviews, he's entertaining but certainly not a good source for factual information.

I also like the L700, but to put things into perspective, I'd take the Focal Clear over the L700 at the moment, I think it actually outresolves the L700, at least once you fix its FR deficiencies. However, right now I'm using a 007t with the L700 and I don't think it is as good a match for the L700 as people say it is. It pretty much runs out of juice very quickly even slightly above moderate volumes, and the sound becomes harsh and lacks detail. The 717 did far better, and I'm sure more powerful amps will do better still, though at that point the value proposition becomes questionable.



Spoiler



let's not pretend that "value" has anything to do with any headphone decisions we make, shall we



The L700 just doesn't have the resolution to be really world-class, but it's not far off, and is voiced nicely, provided you don't mind a bit of tip-up in the highs or are willing to EQ it, and it does have a great midrange. It's a very clear step up from previous Lambda-style headphones but not Omega level IMO, though the SR-007s I've had have all had their own problems and in some ways are further off a really neutral tuning, though maybe in less annoying ways.


----------



## tigon_ridge

mulveling said:


> Then do nothing and be whiney and miserable? I didn’t start to acquire nice things until my career was well underway.


Who is whining and being miserable? I was making a little suggestion for the KG expert builders, and you take that as whining. You're being defensive because you know your suggestions were completely useless and somewhat condescending, but don't want to admit to it. Everyone who frequents this thread knows how to do research and has already probably done a lot of it, and is intelligent enough to know nothing good comes free.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Spritzer also has a modified T1 in that price range and he had a modified 007t for about the same price. If you keep an eye on his used section interesting things come up for good prices, and he has refurbished them..


----------



## kevin gilmore (Aug 2, 2018)

probably none of you know this, but the stax d-10 uses apex micro pa443 chips as the amplifiers (they are duals).  $18.74 each in singles at digikey.
So 2 of these, some heatsink, a pair of your favorite regular opamps in the front end, and a regulated +/-175 v power supply (and +/-15) (and bias), and you have
something cheap and effective. Trouble is the voltage swing, which means it won't have the dynamic range that some of you have become accustomed to.
But you could do the entire thing for about $200 in parts.
I did publish a design using the apex chips at the time, it was 20 years ago.

I'm sure that massdrop will eventually do a cavalli liquid lightning for say $999
(complex switching power supply required to get the cost down)


----------



## VRacer-111

tigon_ridge said:


> That may well be true, and I hope it is, but it would be nice if KG and his fellow engineers could design and implement a build that is meant to pair with entry-level Staxes. Pretty sure the SRM-252S  and SRM-353 could use some nice competition for people who don't have the income to shell out for the high-end Stax models. Every KG amp offers two orders of magnitude more power than any entry-level Stax requires. How about a lower-power, mini KGSShv that won't break the bank? It would serve as a gateway to the more powerful/pricy KG amps for Stax newbies.



I went from SRM-323S to NAD C275BEE stereo amp (already had for my HT system) + Mjolnir SRD-7 e-stat transformer (~$730 shipped)... noticeable increase in sound quality, dynamics, and bass impact/extension. NAD C275BEE is a seriously awesome sounding stereo amp for ~$1k...tons of capacitance, extremely clean and dynamic sounding,  and precise [+/- 0.1dB 20Hz-20kHz, -3db Ref is 3Hz-100kHz].


----------



## Rhamnetin (Aug 2, 2018)

SeaWo|f said:


> That's not a great option why make something that doesn't work well with all stats.
> 
> If you want a cheaper kg amp look at the kgdt or the cheap version of the kgsshv that spritzer has been working on for years.
> 
> ...





Whitigir said:


> Buy used, or put yourself into it (work harder, make more money, and DIY) or both.  Nothing good comes easy.





purk said:


> I saw a KGSS here for around $1100 used, why not just grab this amp and be happy?  I saw several used KGST for around $1500 as well...and that's a great price for such amp.  Otherwise, just be happy with the 323S or the 717 if you can buy one used for around $800 - 900.  Don't forget that casework alone isn't cheap either.



Let's also not forget the Octave V2 from spritzer, and as quoted above consider used amps. So even with no DIY capability, you can build a Stax system with an SR-007/SR-009 for a similar or lower cost than a flagship dynamic/planar magnetic system, and these systems will be competitive. But yeah if you want to take the SR-007/SR-009/SR-009S to the point where it completely outclasses all non-electrostats then you'll need a much more expensive amp.

In other news, I'm using a Chord Mojo as a DAC instead of the Hugo 2 until my Denafrips Venus arrives. As expected, the SR-009 + KGSSHV Carbon is extremely revealing of the source. Compared to the Hugo 2, with the Mojo I'm hearing reduced transparency, softer bass and attack, lower quality and recessed treble, sound stage and imaging took a bigger hit than I was expecting. Pretty much everything is noticeably worse and duller. Especially for metal.

Much of that transparency, resolution, impact, airiness, sound stage, and imaging gets flushed down the drain. It's still far more transparent than any non-electrostatic system I've listened to but yeah... this is kind of lame haha. It's breaking my heart. Such a big difference, the SR-009 really is a microscope. My super positive SR-009 review featured on the front page here? It wouldn't have been nearly that positive if I only had the Mojo.

I'm not surprised but it's nice to finally experience this; if you want 100% from your high end Stax system, you can't cheap out on the source. With the Mojo, a lot of the magic I was hearing is lost compared to the Hugo 2. Can't even imagine what something like a Chord DAVE would do. But the Mojo makes me not want to listen to this system at all anymore (and don't get me wrong, it's great for the price).

If I end up preferring the Hugo 2 to the Venus then I'm moving to a Hugo 2 TT and perhaps getting the Hugo M Scaler eventually and calling it quits. Though I see many of you have favored R2R DACs with Stax, and the Venus looks like a very impressive one so I have high hopes.


----------



## Rossliew

VRacer-111 said:


> I went from SRM-323S to NAD C275BEE stereo amp (already had for my HT system) + Mjolnir SRD-7 e-stat transformer (~$730 shipped)... noticeable increase in sound quality, dynamics, and bass impact/extension. NAD C275BEE is a seriously awesome sounding stereo amp for ~$1k...tons of capacitance, extremely clean and dynamic sounding,  and precise [+/- 0.1dB 20Hz-20kHz, -3db Ref is 3Hz-100kHz].



Could you share pictures of how to connect the srd7 to the amp? Thanks


----------



## JimL11

Rossliew said:


> Could you share pictures of how to connect the srd7 to the amp? Thanks



The SRD-7 has 4 terminals on the back that are marked R+. R-. L+ and L-. Simply connect the terminals to the corresponding output terminals on your amp.


----------



## Rossliew

JimL11 said:


> The SRD-7 has 4 terminals on the back that are marked R+. R-. L+ and L-. Simply connect the terminals to the corresponding output terminals on your amp.



Just like how one would connect an amplifier to speakers using speaker cables?


----------



## VRacer-111 (Aug 2, 2018)

For an original STAX SRD-7 the terminals on the back would go to your speakers and the grey umbilical wire would go to the amp output terminals (normally where you would connect speakers), connecting them as JimL11 says.








The Mjolnir SRD-7 is a little different, it only goes directly to the amp speaker terminals - no ability to use speakers unless the amp has second set of output terminals (which the NAD C275BEE does).






Basically just think of any SRD-7 as taking the place of your speakers.

Here's picture from back of my rig (have speaker cables disconnected in bottom right corner):


----------



## JimL11 (Aug 2, 2018)

Rossliew said:


> Just like how one would connect an amplifier to speakers using speaker cables?



Whoops, forgot I disconnected the umbilical cable in mine, but, yes, the umbilical connects to the amp and speaker cable connects to the terminals in back.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks both for the clarification !


----------



## wuwhere

VRacer-111 said:


> For an original STAX SRD-7 the terminals on the back would go to your speakers and the grey umbilical wire would go to the amp output terminals (normally where you would connect speakers), connecting them as JimL11 says.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Isn't the input to the SRD-7 from the amplifier the grey wires and the output from the SRD-7, the red and black to the speakers? So either you use the headphone or the speakers but not both simultaneously?


----------



## wuwhere

What is the load impedance of the SRD-7 to the speaker amp?


----------



## VRacer-111 (Aug 3, 2018)

wuwhere said:


> Isn't the input to the SRD-7 from the amplifier the grey wires and the output from the SRD-7, the red and black to the speakers? So either you use the headphone or the speakers but not both simultaneously?


Yes, which is what I said in my post.

Selector switch on the front of the STAX SRD-7 allows you to choose between socket outputs and speakers. Mjolnir SRD-7 has no such option.


----------



## VRacer-111

wuwhere said:


> What is the load impedance of the SRD-7 to the speaker amp?



I just measured 3.6 ohms resistance from both L and R channels.


----------



## wuwhere

VRacer-111 said:


> I just measured 3.6 ohms resistance from both L and R channels.



So if I have a tube amp should I use the 4 Ohm output? That 3.6 Ohms does not tell at what frequency.


----------



## JimL11

VRacer-111 said:


> I just measured 3.6 ohms resistance from both L and R channels.





wuwhere said:


> So if I have a tube amp should I use the 4 Ohm output? That 3.6 Ohms does not tell at what frequency.



The 3.6 ohms resistance is probably the DC resistance. According to spritzer, Stax used 1:25 step-up transformers, which means the impedance is reduced by a ratio of 1:625. Since the headphone load is largely capacitative, nominally around 100 pf, the impedance ranges from around 80 megohms at 20 Hz to 80 kilohms at 20 kHz, so through the transformer, the amp sees an impedance between 128 kilohms and 128 ohms - this means the tap you use is non-critical. Another way of looking at it is that the amp sees a capacitor of around 63 nf. You need an amp that is stable driving a capacitative load - most tube amps qualify. Stax recommends a maximum input of 30 watts (presumably into 8 ohms), so pretty much any amp will work. Note that this will produce nearly 1100 volts peak-to-peak into the headphones, or nearly 112 dB SPL at 1 kHz given the common rating of 100 dB output for 100 VRMS. If you don't want to exceed the max rating, you could choose the tap depending on the amp power rating. For example, for a 15 watt amp you could use the 16 ohm tap, for 30 watts use the 8 ohm tap, and for a 60 watt amp, you could use the 4 ohm tap.


----------



## VRacer-111

Thanks for the explanation JimL11, I knew I wasn't measuring the impedance which is why I stated resistance, more of a mechanical, not electrical guy. All I know is Birgir said the NAD C 275BEE (150 watt @ 8/4 ohm continous, 250/410/600 watt @ 8/4/2 ohm dynamic) would not be a concern for use with his SRD-7, which is the reservation I had. He puts protective circuitry on its input and output - main reason I went with the Mjolnir SRD-7.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Too damn hot here to listen to headphones with (fake) leather pads, let alone with a BHSE cooking the atmosphere a bit more 

Ali


----------



## Whitigir

Easy, bring them all to the pool! Lol


----------



## Pahani

Ahh, the joys of Central Air on a hot summer day!

*props up my feet and leans back in my chair*

Kinda boggles my mind that A/C is so rare in Canada and Europe.


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

Stat amps are really just space heaters in disguise! Why not heat your entire house while listening to music? Double whammy!


----------



## SeaWo|f

The Megatron will probably heat a small room pretty effectively.


----------



## Whitigir

T2 is doing plenty of that.  You can cook eggs and serve  with warmed bread slices


----------



## JimL11

AwzemCoffee said:


> Stat amps are really just space heaters in disguise! Why not heat your entire house while listening to music? Double whammy!



More than a grain of truth here. BHSE consumes 160 watts, T2 over 200 watts, Megatron probably another 30-40 watts due to the filaments of four additional EL34s. GG probably close to BHSE.  Not sure about the KGSSHV and Carbon, but can subtract 40 watts  because you don't have the EL34 filaments. All to put 1 watt peak into a Stax headphone. OTOH AnakChan likes to use the MacIntosh MC275 for his Susvaras, and that draws 170 watts at idle.

By contrast, the Stax amps draw 30 (SRM-353X) to 58 (SRM-T8000) watts. The SRX Plus draws about 60 watts.


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

JimL11 said:


> More than a grain of truth here. BHSE consumes 160 watts, T2 over 200 watts, Megatron probably another 30-40 watts due to the filaments of four additional EL34s. GG probably close to BHSE.  Not sure about the KGSSHV and Carbon, but can subtract 40 watts  because you don't have the EL34 filaments. All to put 1 watt peak into a Stax headphone. OTOH AnakChan likes to use the MacIntosh MC275 for his Susvaras, and that draws 170 watts at idle.
> 
> By contrast, the Stax amps draw 30 (SRM-353X) to 58 (SRM-T8000) watts. The SRX Plus draws about 60 watts.



Yea I only have a 353X and it still runs pretty toasty. One day ill graduate to a KG amp I tell you! Day is not today but I have plenty of time


----------



## VRacer-111

Space heater is definitely an accurate description for stereo amps....the NAD C275BEE uses nearly 100watts doing nothing and 300+ watts during nominal use - noticeably heats up the room. Have A/C but window unit... have to turn it off to really listen to music.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I've actually been pleasantly surprised at the temp my bhse runs despite being in my cabinet.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Meh, I have a powerful gaming PC in the same room with a 360mm radiatior venting all that air into the room. I am definitely used to electronics heating up the place.


----------



## TheGadaffiDuck (Aug 4, 2018)

Calling SRD7mk2 owners.

The passthroughs on the back im looking to hook up banana plugs to them, but im having a hard time finding Banana plugs that actually fit. Monoprice plugs kinda fit, but are 2 short to make a connection to the terminals inside, & the hole for the binding post is so small i cant any other ones ive tried like Fospower or Sewell banana plugs

I need help finding one that fits

EDIT: or do i have to REPLACE the speaker terminal with a modern one?


----------



## GarageBoy

JimL11 said:


> One thing is, I have upgraded the power supply that was in the AUdioXpress articles, and no longer recommend the original, as line noise and crap can enter the amp via the negative supply line. Schematic of the upgraded supply is on another website, which also has a thread on building the amp and some comments on the sound quality. A number of builders have used one of the Gilmore power supplies, which should also work.


Yes, I saw that post over there and post 15396 here with the schematic
You also told me I could use the golden reference power supply, and I'm assuming just the HV section (there's gerber files for multiple variations of the GRHV, I'm assuming that I need the all in one version?)
I think I'm planning to do an SRX+ first, and then maybe a KGST or GG (can't even find a schematic for this one, just the Gerbers)...

Thanks guys!


----------



## JimL11

GarageBoy said:


> Yes, I saw that post over there and post 15396 here with the schematic
> You also told me I could use the golden reference power supply, and I'm assuming just the HV section (there's gerber files for multiple variations of the GRHV, I'm assuming that I need the all in one version?)
> I think I'm planning to do an SRX+ first, and then maybe a KGST or GG (can't even find a schematic for this one, just the Gerbers)...
> 
> Thanks guys!



Yes, you only need the HV Golden reference supply, if you want to go all out, however, I should note that people have built the SRX Plus with the old basic Blue Hawaii supply and are perfectly happy with that too. My recent supply is probably slots in between the basic BH HV supply and the Golden reference. It is more complex than the BH, less complex than the Golden reference. I think it has better DC voltage stability than the BH, but has a higher output impedance, and based on published measurements, noise is better.


----------



## Jones Bob

GarageBoy said:


> Yes, I saw that post over there and post 15396 here with the schematic
> You also told me I could use the golden reference power supply, and I'm assuming just the HV section (there's gerber files for multiple variations of the GRHV, I'm assuming that I need the all in one version?)
> I think I'm planning to do an SRX+ first, and then maybe a KGST or GG (can't even find a schematic for this one, just the Gerbers)...
> 
> Thanks guys!



I was an early buyer of the GRHV supply PCBs for my then intended Carbon build. I think they were the fat boards.I had to add a separate HV delay to properly bring up the amp as a GG with tubes.

There have been several versions designed since, including ones with a built in HV delay. If you intend on building a GRHV supply for either tube amps (KGST or GG), I suggest you get that one. The delayed HV start-up will allow the tubes’ heaters to fully warm up before slamming the B+/B- to them, Your tubes will thank you every power up with a longer and happier life.

There is no published schematic for the GG. Just use the parts and values marked on the PCB, and use the Carbon schematic for a rough guide, it’s close. Note, also substitute a18V Zener for the indicated 12V on the board.


----------



## bearFNF

TheGadaffiDuck said:


> Calling SRD7mk2 owners.
> 
> The passthroughs on the back im looking to hook up banana plugs to them, but im having a hard time finding Banana plugs that actually fit. Monoprice plugs kinda fit, but are 2 short to make a connection to the terminals inside, & the hole for the binding post is so small i cant any other ones ive tried like Fospower or Sewell banana plugs
> 
> ...


Take a look at blue jean cables they sell banana plugs, I have the locking version and the compression version that I have used with my SRD7/sb (its not the MKII but is from the 80s)
https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm


----------



## Rhamnetin

Getting back to discussing DACs and an SR-009 system, I got my first R2R DAC, the Denafrips Venus, which is around 95% of the Terminator which is extremely highly regarded (and very impressively built). First thing I noticed is reduced treble extension by 1-2 KHz. To those who heavily prefer R2R DACs with the SR-009, is this what you guys prefer about R2R DACs?  I prefer to hear all the frequencies I can actually hear. The added extension of the Hugo 2 greatly improved realism for me. I need to do much more listening of course but it looks like I may be going with the Hugo TT 2 after all.


----------



## SeaWo|f

To me R2R gives a smoother sound overall extension should not be effect. I assumed people liked r2r with the 009 because it helped reduce the areas where its freq peaks?

My next question would be, are some r2r dac manufacturers doing what some tube amp companies have done and over doing a particular quality to feed a particular group of listeners obsessed with it at the expense of neutrality?


----------



## Rhamnetin (Aug 6, 2018)

SeaWo|f said:


> To me R2R gives a smoother sound overall extension should not be effect. I assumed people liked r2r with the 009 because it helped reduce the areas where its freq peaks?
> 
> My next question would be, are some r2r dac manufacturers doing what some tube amp companies have done and over doing a particular quality to feed a particular group of listeners obsessed with it at the expense of neutrality?



Great question. I forgot to ask in my post, but can SR-009 + R2R DAC owners report on what amount of treble extension they hear with the treble extension test at this website:

https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php

We all have different ears so this isn't very meaningful though.

This Denafrips Venus (having listened for a few hours) is indeed smoother, almost like the sound is glossed over (the lack of treble extension causes this) although I don't believe any detail is actually lost. The lack of treble extension just makes it sound artificial and that magic with the Hugo 2, that airiness, is largely gone. Artificial smoothness I'll say. Metal music is especially negatively affected by this treble recession. A lot of people will like this but I don't.

I'm curious if anyone with an R2R DAC can clearly hear 20 KHz or beyond on that treble sweep.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Was just looking at the venus specs. It lists it power consumption at <20w and it is pretty big.

How long have you had it on? IDK but it might take some time for it to fully warm


----------



## Rhamnetin

SeaWo|f said:


> Was just looking at the venus specs. It lists it power consumption at <20w and it is pretty big.
> 
> How long have you had it on? IDK but it might take some time for it to fully warm



Almost four hours now. But my initial impressions are that I'm never straying from Chord DACs again (not that this is terrible or anything, many people will love it).


----------



## SeaWo|f

Yea I would wait a day or 2 before making any judgement at least.

I know the yggy is an outlier with its monolithic chips; it takes a recommended month.


----------



## Pokemonn (Aug 6, 2018)

Darn surprised! (@_@)! I found one simple best tweak to improve ANY Stax!
I just shaved my head yeasterday due to heat waves.
Wow any Stax sound "significantly(!)" improved!
Bass is fuller, mid is very rich/smooth, treble is oh so smoooth! Oh so musical!

So I asked Stax HQ about it via e-mail yesterday.
Very gentle Suzuki-san(Chief Engineer of Stax) kindly answered my questions.
Long story short, His answer is "Yes, bad effect of hair is absolutely inevitable. it will kill bass/transparency etc etc etc..."

If you are a to-die-for-Stax-fan, you may/should shave your head/face/around ear!
It may be biggest tweak for your Stax setup IMO.


----------



## QueueCumber

Pokemonn said:


> Darn surprised! (@_@)! I found one simple best tweak to improve ANY Stax!
> I just shaved my head yeasterday due to heat waves.
> Wow any Stax sound "significantly(!)" improved!
> Bass is fuller, mid is very rich/smooth, treble is oh so smoooth! Oh so musical!
> ...



I’ll tell you what else is smooth. Your head... lol


----------



## Whitigir

Guys are Funny! LOL...

Anyways, R2R has details and most importantly is the smooth edges resolutions.  Good R2R designs can bring about a lot of details, and while being smooth and flowing, there is the sense of realism and emotions in them, and that, even DSD512 on the same system will not get.  If you think what I think, that achieving closer to realism is the goal of high-end music reproduction, then a good R2R design will do that.  I can recommend you my AGD R2R7 all day long (affordable and sound extraordinary with great customer support).  I would ask the DAVe to challenge it.  If it dares to do so....LOL!


----------



## QueueCumber (Aug 7, 2018)

Pokemonn said:


> Darn surprised! (@_@)! I found one simple best tweak to improve ANY Stax!
> I just shaved my head yeasterday due to heat waves.
> Wow any Stax sound "significantly(!)" improved!
> Bass is fuller, mid is very rich/smooth, treble is oh so smoooth! Oh so musical!
> ...



You think that’s good, try shaving your bottom areas. Really adds some weight and heft to the bass frequencies. I’m seeing significant positive changes in drive, boom, and extension...


----------



## Sinery

QueueCumber said:


> You think that’s good, try shaving your bottom areas. Really adds some weight and heft to the bass frequencies. I’m seeing significant positive changes in drive, boom, and extension...



Are these the Stax farts I've heard so much about?


----------



## astrostar59

Whitigir said:


> Guys are Funny! LOL...
> 
> Anyways, R2R has details and most importantly is the smooth edges resolutions.  Good R2R designs can bring about a lot of details, and while being smooth and flowing, there is the sense of realism and emotions in them, and that, even DSD512 on the same system will not get.  If you think what I think, that achieving closer to realism is the goal of high-end music reproduction, then a good R2R design will do that.  I can recommend you my AGD R2R7 all day long (affordable and sound extraordinary with great customer support).  I would ask the DAVe to challenge it.  If it dares to do so....LOL!



I would run it for 2 weeks minimum. Few thoughts, how are you feeding it, the USB input may not be best on all DACs, try SPDIF or i2S, to find the best input.

Good R-2R is closer to vinyl, less digital. IMO a lot of perceived detail on DS DACs is the filter and up sampling effect. I found DACs without any upsampling, or filter (important, most do have filters) and well designed sound the most natural. TotalDAC, Lampizator, L5 Audio Note, Aries Cerat, Ypsilon are the that come to mind.


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 7, 2018)

astrostar59 said:


> I would run it for 2 weeks minimum. Few thoughts, how are you feeding it, the USB input may not be best on all DACs, try SPDIF or i2S, to find the best input.
> 
> Good R-2R is closer to vinyl, less digital. IMO a lot of perceived detail on DS DACs is the filter and up sampling effect. I found DACs without any upsampling, or filter (important, most do have filters) and well designed sound the most natural. TotalDAC, Lampizator, L5 Audio Note, Aries Cerat, Ypsilon are the that come to mind.



I have built a dedicated PC that does Direct PCIE- I2S into it.  Ofcourse, I agree with your statements regarding input.  That was the reason why I built my PC ], which is even more expensive than the DAC itself.  But it is worth every pennies.  Everything matters, there is no 1 thing that does all the job.  You just need to know what you want and ultimately judge by your ears (what I do).  My PC is feeding R2R7 with I2S and upgraded OCXO clock.  I totally recommend I2S or SPDIF on R2R7 and not USB 

I was not so happy with Jriver (eventhough I was satisfied with it performances and interface but I was still seeking more).  It turned out that I found my preferred software, Audirvana.  Loving it so much!

Pics just for fun 

**Note** R2R-7 does both very well, upsampling or True NOS -6db analog filters


----------



## astrostar59

Whitigir, try Roon. I used to use Audirvana+ up to V3.2, but Roon is smoother, less digital and keep the detail at the same time. Going back to A+ it sounds a bit rough, the leading edges are exaggerated. Let me know your thoughts.....


----------



## Whitigir

Are you using Roon on Mac or Windows ?


----------



## QueueCumber

Do you feel like the PC equipment matters much if you have equipment with a master clock and DAC that cleans up the signal on the other end?

For instance, I’ve been looking at the Auralic equipment bundle: Vega G2 DAC, Leo G2 masterclock, and Sirius G2 upsampler. Or even an Aries G2 WiFi streamer added to the mix.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Garbage in garbage out better to start with a clean signal than to try and go through a bunch of steps to fix it.


----------



## QueueCumber (Aug 7, 2018)

SeaWo|f said:


> Garbage in garbage out better to start with a clean signal than to try and go through a bunch of steps to fix it.



That makes sense to me with analog, but with 1s and 0s it seems like it wouldn’t matter as long as the signal is stored and repropogated with the master clock, which that system would do via memory buffers and Leo.

It is unfortunately a rather pricey setup.


----------



## Jones Bob

Whitiger, FWIW
After all the updates to Audirvana up to the latest, I’ve reverted back to v3.0.1 as the best most analog sounding on my rig. Pays sonic dividends and costs nothing to try.


----------



## Rhamnetin

One interesting thing about Denafrips DACs is that they use very high end components to convert all inputs into I2S, seemingly making my Singxer SU-1 redundant. Nevertheless I have been testing I2S from the SU-1 vs direct USB from a PC. No audible difference so far.


----------



## koven

Do you guys think the Stax dust covers are nice to have or mandatory? Anyone just leave theirs on a stand?


----------



## raband

I think the new version (L300, 500, 700 at least?) have decent inbuilt dust shields?


----------



## bearFNF

koven said:


> Do you guys think the Stax dust covers are nice to have or mandatory? Anyone just leave theirs on a stand?


some form of dust protection is mandatory IMO.


----------



## koven

Got it.. I guess I will place mine in the box until the dust cover arrives!


----------



## 336881

I would not worry about it. I have owned quite a few and a couple of them went through a dusty remodel and no issues.

To those who worry about the dust. What exactly do you think the dust does that is harmful?


----------



## Rhamnetin

Dust getting in the driver apparently completely ruins the sound. I've seen spritzer discuss it countless times though I forget the symptoms. 

I end up super meticulous with my Stax.


----------



## VRacer-111

My solution:


----------



## QueueCumber (Aug 7, 2018)

VRacer-111 said:


> My solution:



It looks like your headphones are ready to attend a political rally.... #notmyheadphones


----------



## mulveling (Aug 8, 2018)

QueueCumber said:


> It looks like your headphones are ready to attend a political rally.... #notmyheadphones


I think maybe we should hear what they have to say first 
Or maybe switch between white and black cloths to keep people guessing their affiliation.

My first 009S arrived with a noisy R driver that I assume was from dust that got in there during the manufacturing process, and slipped through quality control. It make intermittent crinkle/static/whine/whistle sounds like a noisy tube (but definitely NOT from the amp). Then a couple weeks later, it also developed a channel imbalance (lower level in the bad driver), which makes me think perhaps it sustained damage or defect that first let dust enter to cause the noise, and then progressed to manifest as an imbalance.

I've always kept some kind of plastic cover over my Staxes. The inner plastic bags they ship in work great but look ugly. I also use the Stax-branded covers but they don't quite reach to the bottom of a Stax stand with a 009/S. The Stax drivers have their own built-in protective dust covers (both sides), but I figure it's not a bad idea to double-up with an outer cover too. Stax headphones that arrived perfect have stayed perfect over the last few years. I've also heard a pair of 30+ year old Lambda Pro that were perfect; no issues.


----------



## 336881

koven said:


> Do you guys think the Stax dust covers are nice to have or mandatory? Anyone just leave theirs on a stand?





Rhamnetin said:


> Dust getting in the driver apparently completely ruins the sound. I've seen spritzer discuss it countless times though I forget the symptoms.
> 
> I end up super meticulous with my Stax.



I guess there is nothing wrong with that but I have seen hair gel, cat hair and dog hair do much worse things to headphones than just about any amount of dust.


----------



## astrostar59 (Aug 8, 2018)

koven said:


> Got it.. I guess I will place mine in the box until the dust cover arrives!











I uses a glass bell jar, like the ones you can get for displaying stuffed bird. Looks good and fits over my Woo HP stand. No dust.


----------



## koven

astrostar59 said:


> I uses a glass bell jar, like the ones you can get for displaying stuffed bird. Looks good and fits over my Woo HP stand. No dust.



That is creative! Perhaps I'll try that 'til my dust cover arrives..


----------



## astrostar59

koven said:


> That is creative! Perhaps I'll try that 'til my dust cover arrives..



The Woo stand inside the bell jar looks great, meles better than a cover or stax bag. I cut a retent for the cable exit which also vents for humidity. I live in super dry / hot climate, so lots of fine dust!


----------



## bearFNF (Aug 8, 2018)

In my experience, I had perfect headphones (SR009) when I got them, but after a year or so they developed a channel imbalance. I ended up having to send them back to Hong-Kong to be repaired at great expense and hassle. All they did was clean them. They said they were pretty dusty. 
When I got them back they worked fine. So I now take extra precautions to avoid going thruogh the hassle again. As always, YMMV and YEMBD...


----------



## joseph69

Here are my 009/007Mk2 on a modded Woo Audio stand covered with the 100% cotton Jersey Knit Bed Sheet pouch that the sheet set came in. After use I place the stand in a cabinet as well.


----------



## Rhamnetin

bearFNF said:


> In my experience, I had perfect headphones (SR009) when I got them, but after a year or so they developed a channel imbalance. I ended up having to send them back to Hong-Kong to be repaired at great expense and hassle. All they did was clean them. They said they were pretty dusty.
> When I got them back they worked fine. So I now take extra precautions to avoid going thruogh the hassle again. As always, YMMV and YEMBD...



Just curious, was it Stax that repaired them and what was the expense like?


----------



## Whitigir

joseph69 said:


> Here are my 009/007Mk2 on a modded Woo Audio stand covered with the 100% cotton Jersey Knit Bed Sheet pouch that the sheet set came in. After use I place the stand in a cabinet as well.



I don’t feel like hanging Stax by the leather bands a good way to store them.  Is it not the suspended mechanism being affected and degrade overtime as every minute it stretches? I hang them by the Plastic band.  Unless I can get a good idea why I should hang them by the leather band ?


----------



## joseph69 (Aug 8, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> I don’t feel like hanging Stax by the leather bands a good way to store them.  Is it not the suspended mechanism being affected and degrade overtime as every minute it stretches? I hang them by the Plastic band. Unless I can get a good idea why I should hang them by the leather band ?


I do understand you're point and agree about possible stretch, but I'm not concerned being they've been hanging like this for 2+yrs and I've never once had to adjust the height of the 009 and the 007 doesn't have an adjustable suspension strap with detents, but the elasticity feels exactly the same as when I bought them and they've been hanging around like this pretty much since I've them. I probably have +/- 50hrs on them. This is not to say I dont feel they're an excellent headphone, though.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I hang them by the arcs.


----------



## oneguy

Headphones aren’t that heave so I don’t think stretch is an issue. As an example, the L700 weighs 0.8lbs without the weight of the cables. That means that each side of the strap is only supporting 0.4 lbs. I don believe 0.4 lbs is enough to stretch that wide band leather strap.


----------



## Whitigir

There are numerous case where Stax leather bands are damaged


----------



## bearFNF (Aug 8, 2018)

Rhamnetin said:


> Just curious, was it Stax that repaired them and what was the expense like?


Yes, it was Stax (Edifier) that I worked with. The expense and hassle came from not having a responsive dealer to handle sending them in. It was mostly shipping fees and having to get a tax ID # to ship them out of the country.  The charge from Stax was minimal because they did not have to replace anything. I will look for the cost tonight and PM you if you want to know.


----------



## mulveling (Aug 8, 2018)

Cool setup @SeaWo|f ! I like the thick glass shelves. All looks very sturdy. I hope your Yggy is a matching black too 
Edit: And get those K701 outta there lol


----------



## joseph69

Whitigir said:


> There are numerous case where Stax leather bands are damaged


Due to hanging them from the suspension strap? I also have the cables coiled and resting on the base of the stand so there is no weight pulling down on the headphones.


----------



## SeaWo|f

@mulveling Thanks, the cabinet took a long time to build out, but it has been worth it. The shelves are custom 1/2 inch glass. I do have the matching yggy and 2 open shelves in my cabinet for future purchases. I put old stuff on them for now so they aren't empty.  Here is a post with the full setup.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sho...ictures-please.529140/page-1494#post-14358967

The K701 has its merits depending on what you are looking for, I got on sale for 180 new and use them for FPS. In this roll I am quite happy with them.


----------



## mulveling

Ah yes, and now I recognize the pickle Rick and Noop Noop figures from before, very cool! Awesome cabinet. 
I assume the gating is to keep girlfriend/wife out, lol


----------



## SeaWo|f

Yea another thing that was worth the huge amount of time spent. Baby proofing the house, so much easier when they just cant get into things vs fighting to keep the kids out. Open floor plan means I spent a lot on very long modular gates.


----------



## 336881 (Aug 8, 2018)

bearFNF said:


> In my experience, I had perfect headphones (SR009) when I got them, but after a year or so they developed a channel imbalance. I ended up having to send them back to Hong-Kong to be repaired at great expense and hassle. All they did was clean them. They said they were pretty dusty.
> When I got them back they worked fine. So I now take extra precautions to avoid going thruogh the hassle again. As always, YMMV and YEMBD...



Something got lost in translation. There is not any reason for them to charge an arm and leg to just clean them. Listening to them the membrane has to move so fast there is no way dust can stick to them.


----------



## bearFNF (Aug 8, 2018)

antimatter said:


> Something got lost in translation. There is not any reason for them to charge an arm and leg to just clean them. Listening to them the membrane has to move so fast there is no way dust can stick to them.


Not sure what you mean by Lost in Translation. I'm just relating my experience. I said nothing about them charging me an arm and a leg. I did have to pay quite a bit to ship them there and it was quite a hassle. All I know is that when I got them back there was no more channel balance imbalance and all they did was clean them...

BTW - you do know that dust sticks to stuff by static electricity right? So, these being electrostatic earspeakers…  Just sayin'

But by the same token I have a pair of Lambda NB from the eighties that I have never had in a case and have had no issue with. They sit out all the time...


----------



## VRacer-111

I've been listening to my Sennheiser HD58Xs for about the last week. Just got in a Furman M-8x AR power conditioner/Voltage regulator for my STAX rig and reconnected everything to run off it temporarily to test it out. Really wanted the P-1800 AR model, but not willing to pay the asking price for it. Have a Sanus CFR1615 modular open frame component rack that everything is going to be mounted in...Crutchfield had it on sale and it matched my needs. But for now I have everything set up to test it out and am listening to my STAX now after not hearing them for a while... and boy does the bass absolutely blow away what the HD58X can do both in impact, presence, detail, and extension... no contest! Not to mention everything else regarding sound quality of course... going back to STAX after getting use to other headphones is quite an experience... LOL


----------



## koven

I'm new to Stax but I am just floored by the resolution and imaging/separation on the 009. It is noticeably better than my Utopia and LCD4. I want to up my KGSSHV to a Carbon or BHSE, leaning towards Carbon though so I don't have to deal w/ warm up times..


----------



## oneguy (Aug 9, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> There are numerous case where Stax leather bands are damaged


Stretching damage or damage from an abrupt angle change due to using a thin hanger? I hang mine from the straps all day long on my Silverstonetek EBA01’s and they still look the same after a year. The top a probably 2” wide and is curved which reduces the bend angle on the leather.


----------



## Whitigir

koven said:


> I'm new to Stax but I am just floored by the resolution and imaging/separation on the 009. It is noticeably better than my Utopia and LCD4. I want to up my KGSSHV to a Carbon or BHSE, leaning towards Carbon though so I don't have to deal w/ warm up times..


Everything needs a warm up time.  For the carbon to stabilize, it takes around 20 minutes....LOL

Yes, Carbon has no tubes, so u lose the tube timbres magic


----------



## joseph69

oneguy said:


> Stretching damage or damage from an abrupt angle change due to using a thin hanger? I hang mine from the straps all day long on my Silverstonetek EBA01’s and they still look the same after a year. The top a probably 2” wide and is curved which reduces the bend angle on the leather.


I fixed 2 semi-circular pieces of foam on top of my stand to keep the shape of the headbands.


----------



## oneguy

joseph69 said:


> I fixed 2 semi-circular pieces of foam on top of my stand to keep the shape of the headbands.


Oh very nice, where did you pick up the foam?


----------



## joseph69

oneguy said:


> Oh very nice, where did you pick up the foam?


Thank you.
The foam is from the inside of my Grado headphone boxes. 
I cut the foam insert semi-circle off where their headbands would be inserted to secure them in the box.


----------



## mulveling

joseph69 said:


> Thank you.
> The foam is from the inside of my Grado headphone boxes.
> I cut the foam insert semi-circle off where their headbands would be inserted to secure them in the box.


This marks Grado’s best contribution yet to high-end headphones


----------



## joseph69

mulveling said:


> This marks Grado’s best contribution yet to high-end headphones


You got me.  
I know, people either love or hate Grado headphones, but I do enjoy my Grado headphones, but admit I haven't listened to them in a while due to splitting my listening time between my Stax & Utopia.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Aug 10, 2018)

Got in a Saunus open rack for the STAX rig and have it temporarily configured... think will end up putting the Oppo at top and move the Furman voltage regulator with the SRD-7 and RME ADI-2 DAC down three units...If I could find the mounting tabs for the TASCAM MH-8 amp then I could mount it below the OPPO, seem to have missplaced them and they just are not able to be found....arrrg.


----------



## nanosword (Aug 11, 2018)

what is the best Dac for  007mk2 black ,   Dual Sabre ES9038Pro or R2R to match it with carbon .

I didn't try R2R only sabre Dac and I  like it .

I buy  silver interconnect  and power cable to be ready when I order carbon and 007 .


----------



## Rhamnetin

nanosword said:


> what is the best Dac for  007mk2 black ,   Dual Sabre ES9038Pro or R2R to match it with carbon .
> 
> I didn't try R2R only sabre Dac and I  like it .
> 
> I buy  silver interconnect  and power cable to be ready when I order carbon and 007 .



I wouldn't use any Sabre. My vote goes to Chord. I've done a decent amount of DAC exploration (but definitely not a ton) and to me Chord sounds the most real and transparent by far. Chord DACs are like better, more convincing versions of traditional delta sigma DACs to my ears, so since you like those Sabre based DACs then you'll probably like Chord a lot. Not sure what your exact budget is though.

R2R is too smooth to me, treble gets held back too much (treble extension is even reduced) lowering perceived realism and transparency to me although a good one will do this without sacrificing detail so lots of people prefer it to reduce fatigue. But fatigue would never be an issue with the SR-007 I'd think, an R2R DAC would make it too dark and laid back in my opinion.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I like the yggy, bhse and 007. It has a nice balance. Haven't heard the A2 though.

@Rhamnetin you going to keep the Venus or swap for say the new Hugo tt2? M scaler looks like a nice upgrade option for later.


----------



## koven

Has anyone seen a review of the Woo 3ES? Can't find any impressions online.


----------



## Rhamnetin

SeaWo|f said:


> I like the yggy, bhse and 007. It has a nice balance. Haven't heard the A2 though.
> 
> @Rhamnetin you going to keep the Venus or swap for say the new Hugo tt2? M scaler looks like a nice upgrade option for later.



Definitely getting a Hugo TT 2, and will eventually get the M Scaler. And that will be the last DAC I ever get hopefully!


----------



## Whitigir

Rhamnetin said:


> I wouldn't use any Sabre. My vote goes to Chord. I've done a decent amount of DAC exploration (but definitely not a ton) and to me Chord sounds the most real and transparent by far. Chord DACs are like better, more convincing versions of traditional delta sigma DACs to my ears, so since you like those Sabre based DACs then you'll probably like Chord a lot. Not sure what your exact budget is though.
> 
> R2R is too smooth to me, treble gets held back too much (treble extension is even reduced) lowering perceived realism and transparency to me although a good one will do this without sacrificing detail so lots of people prefer it to reduce fatigue. But fatigue would never be an issue with the SR-007 I'd think, an R2R DAC would make it too dark and laid back in my opinion.



DAC is only a part of your chain, u need a good source too


----------



## Rhamnetin

Whitigir said:


> DAC is only a part of your chain, u need a good source too



Great DACs including the higher end options from Chord make the source less important, but yeah since I'll soon be done with DACs and am already more or less done with headphone amps and headphones and analog interconnects, I'll have to venture into sources and also perhaps power related components. Have to try things before I make conclusions after all.


----------



## Whitigir

Rhamnetin said:


> Great DACs including the higher end options from Chord make the source less important, but yeah since I'll soon be done with DACs and am already more or less done with headphone amps and headphones and analog interconnects, I'll have to venture into sources and also perhaps power related components. Have to try things before I make conclusions after all.


Actually, the higher end your DAC is, the better it will scale if you had a better source


----------



## koven

Whitigir said:


> Actually, the higher end your DAC is, the better it will scale if you had a better source



What is your weapon of choice for transport/source?


----------



## Whitigir

koven said:


> What is your weapon of choice for transport/source?


Dedicated Built PC with good linear power supply


----------



## Rhamnetin

Whitigir said:


> Dedicated Built PC with good linear power supply



My source is also a PC that I built, and its power supply is a Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium 650W which is about as good as it gets for computer power supplies (connected to a Furman M-8X2). The plan for me is to connect the PC to a Chord Hugo M Scaler via USB, and the Hugo M Scaler to the Hugo 2 TT via dual BNC cables.

With my current Denafrips Venus, there is no audible difference when connecting directly to it via USB from my PC, versus connecting my PC to a Singxer SU-1 via USB and then Singxer SU-1 to the Venus via I2S. This is because both the SU-1 and Venus do the same thing with the USB signal, convert it to I2S with very similar hardware.


----------



## koven (Aug 11, 2018)

I like the idea of a dedicated transport rather than connecting to my PC/laptop. When I switched to Auralic Aries as a Roon endpoint, I was surprised how much cleaner and blacker it sounds in comparison. I thought the difference would be marginal, maybe inaudible but I was wrong! I have the Mini Aries w/ Auralic LPS but I see an Aries Femto w/ Sbooster in my future, or maybe ultraRendu..


----------



## mulveling

I'm a pretty big anti-digital guy, but even playing with a couple different transports and the Audiophilleo USB-to-SPDIF converter on $2K level DACs was pretty eye-opening as to the difference the transport can make. The Yggy's Gen 3 USB input was absolutely awful unless you had really dark headphones.


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 11, 2018)

Rhamnetin said:


> My source is also a PC that I built, and its power supply is a Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium 650W which is about as good as it gets for computer power supplies (connected to a Furman M-8X2). The plan for me is to connect the PC to a Chord Hugo M Scaler via USB, and the Hugo M Scaler to the Hugo 2 TT via dual BNC cables.
> 
> With my current Denafrips Venus, there is no audible difference when connecting directly to it via USB from my PC, versus connecting my PC to a Singxer SU-1 via USB and then Singxer SU-1 to the Venus via I2S. This is because both the SU-1 and Venus do the same thing with the USB signal, convert it to I2S with very similar hardware.


Seasonic is Switching Power Supply.  There are plenty of linear power supply for PC.  Paul Pang for example, and HDPlex.  Linear power supply isn’t all about filtering and noises either.  It is more about how it would perform upon different frequencies.

I2s is the best digital transportation can get, and it is the best with a powerful, PCIE Direct interface, anything that involves DSP such as Singxer is all but a DDC Bridge


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 11, 2018)

koven said:


> I like the idea of a dedicated transport rather than connecting to my PC/laptop. When I switched to Auralic Aries as a Roon endpoint, I was surprised how much cleaner and blacker it sounds in comparison. I thought the difference would be marginal, maybe inaudible but I was wrong! I have the Mini Aries w/ Auralic LPS but I see an Aries Femto w/ Sbooster in my future, or maybe ultraRendu..



Until you build the correct dedicated PC, you will not know the limitations of What a dedicated PC can do.  Have you seen $17,000 PC from Pinkfaun ? Why did they build it ? Your typical PC or gaming PC or Desktop just will not even get close

Quote:

The Pink Faun streamer 2.16 is our top-of-the-line music server. _Our aim was to design the absolute digital source for customers who demands the best. *Only one solution can achieve this goal: a computer-based system*_. The best music discovery- and management software and the best audio playback software is fully integrated in the Pink Faun streamer 2.16:

Click on this link


----------



## SeaWo|f

Rhamnetin said:


> Definitely getting a Hugo TT 2, and will eventually get the M Scaler. And that will be the last DAC I ever get hopefully!



Lol, I have seen last this or that thrown around not infrequently. Don't kid yourself


----------



## phaeton70 (Aug 13, 2018)

So, I'm in the final decision stage for my amplifier, and need last bit of help from you dear experienced staxers 

I will use an MSB Analog DAC, mainly listening to acoustic jazz, vocal jazz (mainly female voices), sometimes downtempo trip-hop/ambient, rarely to gothic/darkwave and prog. no metal, no rock, no dance, no hip-hop.

I like fast, detailed, high resolution sound with a natural timbre but a touch of warmth. I NEVER listen to high volume, actually I tend to use low/moderate volume.

I'm now listening with a T1W (Clear top tubes) and I do like what I'm hearing a lot, but I know my 009 can do more 

So, would you dear staxers say that the best hybrid amp wrt the characteristic listed above would be : BHSE > KGST > 007II ??

Any other amp to consider? Where woudl you put SRX+ ? And, where would you put the Carbon (which is currently my first choice)?

Please remember: I have a clear picture of what's the general consensus about the amp for 009 in general. What I would fancy know is instead what's the general consensus with regards the reqs above, i.e. the way I like to enjoy my 009. Thanks!!!!!

rgrds
mike


----------



## Rhamnetin

I would go for a Carbon from Mjolnir-audio to help speed up the SR-009 even more so to speak. But either that or a BHSE will be incredible.


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## Hubert481

What is the difference between SorenBrix-Carbon and  Mjolnir-Carbon in soundquality?


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## Whitigir

Sound quality ? They are both KG designs .  You go with whoever you are more comfortable With.


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## Rhamnetin

Great question that I can't answer. Spritzer's runs at full power (22mA); setting it lower is said to result in a more laid back sound but I am not sure.


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## aldavey

Hubert481 said:


> What is the difference between SorenBrix-Carbon and  Mjolnir-Carbon in soundquality?


There should be no diifference in sound quality. Mjolnir audio is a great company and Birgir is great to deal with. Sold mine about a month ago, bad, bad, mistake!!


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## JimL11

phaeton70 said:


> So, I'm in the final decision stage for my amplifier, and need last bit of help from you dear experienced staxers
> 
> I will use an MSB Analog DAC, mainly listening to acoustic jazz, vocal jazz (mainly female voices), sometimes downtempo trip-hop/ambient, rarely to gothic/darkwave and prog. no metal, no rock, no dance, no hip-hop.
> 
> ...



The SRX+ is in the same quality level as the KGST, but it does sound more tube-like, since it only uses tubes as amplification devices, whereas all the other amps you listed use solid state amplification for the front end and intermediate stages.


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## phaeton70

tnks all for the comments, very appreciated.

just one last bit: where would you put GG in the list? would you say it's in the same league of BHSE, or somewhere in between BHSE and KGST ?

again: I'm interested in some specific parameters, not overall sound quality. i.e.fast, detailed sound with max resolution, warm mids, never harsh, never mudded bass.I never listen to high volume

many tnks again
mike


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## georgep

Hubert481 said:


> What is the difference between SorenBrix-Carbon and  Mjolnir-Carbon in soundquality?



Soren's builds use the boards that other Carbon builders use, which means a larger power supply (the GRHV), and amp boards which feature a cascoded constant current load (which is said to be more linear and increases the efficiency of the signal current). He may or may not include the GRLV power supply (that some say makes a difference as well - I am not entirely sold), probably based on request.


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## Rhamnetin

phaeton70 said:


> tnks all for the comments, very appreciated.
> 
> just one last bit: where would you put GG in the list? would you say it's in the same league of BHSE, or somewhere in between BHSE and KGST ?
> 
> ...



The Grounded Grid fits that description the most I think. Should have more and better bass than the BHSE and better sound stage, but this is based on word of mouth.


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## SeaWo|f

Some recent descriptions have put the GG and BHSE at mostly similar in sound signature. You could probably shift either a bit with tube choices. Grounded Grid has a servo which is convenient. There also is the DHT version of the GG which could be a novelty you are interested in, so long as your not into tube rolling and don't care about cost. 

most people rank things roughly like this 

T2, Circlotron 

BHSE, GG, Carbon, Megatron

KGSSHV, KGST, SRX+

List is obviously incomplete


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## Rhamnetin

SeaWo|f said:


> Some recent descriptions have put the GG and BHSE at mostly similar in sound signature. You could probably shift either a bit with tube choices. Grounded Grid has a servo which is convenient. There also is the DHT version of the GG which could be a novelty you are interested in, so long as your not into tube rolling and don't care about cost.
> 
> most people rank things roughly like this
> 
> ...



Are there any builders out there for a DHT GG? I might be interested in throwing money that way in the future.


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## SeaWo|f (Aug 13, 2018)

Not sure who would have boards. That is the main issue, you need a pair so you would have to fund a small run(normally 5) to get the pair you need, so probably ~180 to 200 for the board run.

But if you are willing to do that I would say contact your preferred builder.

Edit :: If it were me.. and I wanted to commission something very rare, something that maybe less than a handful exist it would be the KG sandwich.


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## oneguy (Aug 13, 2018)

SeaWo|f said:


> Some recent descriptions have put the GG and BHSE at mostly similar in sound signature. You could probably shift either a bit with tube choices. Grounded Grid has a servo which is convenient. There also is the DHT version of the GG which could be a novelty you are interested in, so long as your not into tube rolling and don't care about cost.
> 
> most people rank things roughly like this
> 
> ...


Is there enough feedback on the feedback (reviews) of the Circlotron to warrant ranking it with the T2? I wasn’t sure if rarity or actually sonic performance was factoring into your rankings.


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## SeaWo|f

Really only a comment by KG. 

Doesn't really matter they have problems with exploding currently. The work is on going apparently.


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## oneguy (Aug 14, 2018)

Ah ok. I wasn’t sure if KG’s comment was in reference to sound or difficulty to build. As you pointed out though, it doesn’t really matter as they are unicorn dust until the builds are sorted out.


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## rattler

Friends, 

Please can you let me know if all KGSS Amps, regardless of the builders, would have same/similar sound quality?

I am deciding an amp for my 007A Earspeaker. Any suggestions/recommendations would be welcome

Regards


----------



## Rhamnetin

rattler said:


> Friends,
> 
> Please can you let me know if all KGSS Amps, regardless of the builders, would have same/similar sound quality?
> 
> ...



There are known variations of the KGSSHV based on power supply designs and probably other factors.

People comment on how the KGSSHV Carbon becomes more laid back when the output stage runs at lower power, e.g. 20mA and below. That's probably the opposite of what you want with the SR-007 though. 

I would get a Mjolnir Audio KGSSHV Carbon personally since it's readily available so next to no wait time, and it is a phenomenal full power KGSSHV Carbon in a nice small package.


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## Whitigir

Carbon + 007 MKI is like a very affordable of best Stax can do and only behind 009 + KG T2.  Again, synergies is everything.  I can recommend a Carbon with 007 MkI or GG/BHSE with 009 all day long .  Except if you want KG T2, which I didn’t like too much with 007 MkI.  Though it is so freaking wonderful with 009 and even more so with 009S


----------



## Rhamnetin

I think it's time to start messing around with analog interconnects more because of how revealing the SR-009 + KGSSHV Carbon are. As expected, the Kimber Kable Hero on this system sounds infinitely better than cheap Mediabridge interconnects... a bigger difference than, for example, going from a Chord Mojo to a Hugo 2 when using an Audeze LCD-4/LFF Code-6 + Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar, and a bigger difference than going from a Schiit Lyr 3 to a Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar with the LCD-4 and Hugo 2 as the DAC.

So I'll just reiterate, don't cheap out on any critical components with a high end Stax system. I'm still using 14AWG power cords even (Pangea) and not so fancy power conditioning equipment (Furman M-8X2). I'll get to that eventually, not expecting significant changes there though so I will focus on more critical components first.


----------



## walakalulu

In terms of power conditioning I’ve recently removed both my source (ARC CD9) and headamp (KGSE) from the conditioner with positive results. There is less ‘weight and substance’ but more high frequency detail and broader soundstage. And the conditioner ain’t cheap - around £3K


----------



## BuStaxski

Hi all - I'm new to the site but has been lurking around for quite some time. Just never felt like posting anything.
I hope to get some help from some of you very knowledgeable about Stax and such.
I currently use a Stax 3030 system which I am very happy about. 
Recently I have got a better financial situation and have decided to upgrade.
Already pulled the trigger on a pair of SR-009s (have not yet got it) and also want to upgrade the energizer to something better. 
Reading the threads I get the impression that the after market energizers are the way to go, I am just a bit confused on how to approach this. Where are those put up for sale and what energizer is best recommended for the sr-009s?


----------



## Rhamnetin

walakalulu said:


> In terms of power conditioning I’ve recently removed both my source (ARC CD9) and headamp (KGSE) from the conditioner with positive results. There is less ‘weight and substance’ but more high frequency detail and broader soundstage. And the conditioner ain’t cheap - around £3K



Always interesting to see expereiences like this, and they are not rare. I don't plan to dump a ton of money into power equipment, I will stick to affordable power conditioners and also try not using them. And I probably won't venture beyond Pangea 9awg power cords.

I am curious though; do you think you can get the best of both worlds by using the conditioner and silver interconnects? 



BuStaxski said:


> Hi all - I'm new to the site but has been lurking around for quite some time. Just never felt like posting anything.
> I hope to get some help from some of you very knowledgeable about Stax and such.
> I currently use a Stax 3030 system which I am very happy about.
> Recently I have got a better financial situation and have decided to upgrade.
> ...



Not much love for energizers around these parts but spritzer makes one (mjolnir-audio.com).


----------



## BuStaxski

Rhamnetin said:


> Always interesting to see expereiences like this, and they are not rare. I don't plan to dump a ton of money into power equipment, I will stick to affordable power conditioners and also try not using them. And I probably won't venture beyond Pangea 9awg power cords.
> 
> I am curious though; do you think you can get the best of both worlds by using the conditioner and silver interconnects?
> 
> ...


I am sorry for using the wrong typology. I thought stax calls amplifiers for energizers, no? I am looking for aftermarket amplification but find it difficult on how to approach it. any comments is much appreciated. thanks.


----------



## Rhamnetin

BuStaxski said:


> I am sorry for using the wrong typology. I thought stax calls amplifiers for energizers, no? I am looking for aftermarket amplification but find it difficult on how to approach it. any comments is much appreciated. thanks.



Got it. I was thinking of the energizer boxes, speaker amp addons to use Stax with a speaker amp.

Amp selection with high end Stax is pretty easy I think: the best you can afford! I wouldn't go below KGSSHV/KGST tier, and mjolnir-audio has a $2,300 KGSSHV these days. Above that is the KGSSHV Carbon, the best solid state you can get right now, and the Blue Hawaii SE if you want to sacrifice some bass and sound stage for uh... different mids and I believe less forward treble than at least a 22mA KGSSHV Carbon (e.g. mjolnir-audio's carbons).

You can probably get someone to build you a Grounded Grid which is a KGSSHV Carbon but with a tube output stage (4x 6CA7/EL34). It probably offers the best of both worlds between the KGSSHV Carbon and BHSE? I haven't used one myself yet.

The ultimate right now is the DIY-T2 which you can commission someone to build for you, but this is north of $10k.

Do you have a budget to work with?


----------



## BuStaxski

Rhamnetin said:


> Got it. I was thinking of the energizer boxes, speaker amp addons to use Stax with a speaker amp.
> 
> Amp selection with high end Stax is pretty easy I think: the best you can afford! I wouldn't go below KGSSHV/KGST tier, and mjolnir-audio has a $2,300 KGSSHV these days. Above that is the KGSSHV Carbon, the best solid state you can get right now, and the Blue Hawaii SE if you want to sacrifice some bass and sound stage for uh... different mids and I believe less forward treble than at least a 22mA KGSSHV Carbon (e.g. mjolnir-audio's carbons).
> 
> ...



Budget I have is $5.000 not sure if I can pony up 10k.
I have read some comments about Ground Grid and probably set my mine to it (of course if I read something against it I might change my mind) 
but I don't seems to find any Ground Grid for sale anywhere?


----------



## walakalulu

Power conditioner and silver interconnects as-the best of both worlds? I wouldn’t think so. Conditioners take something out but cables can’t put something in, only alter what’s already there, if you get my point.


----------



## walakalulu

BuStaxski said:


> Budget I have is $5.000 not sure if I can pony up 10k.
> I have read some comments about Ground Grid and probably set my mine to it (of course if I read something against it I might change my mind)
> but I don't seems to find any Ground Grid for sale anywhere?



If you’re importing from the USA where many are made make sure they come UK voltage ready.


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## BuStaxski

walakalulu said:


> If you’re importing from the USA where many are made make sure they come UK voltage ready.


Good point. Thanks a lot. Not sure where to get a Ground Grid from though.


----------



## Whitigir

BuStaxski said:


> Good point. Thanks a lot. Not sure where to get a Ground Grid from though.


One of those builder would be Joe from Taiwan 

Browse around here with google translate


----------



## koven

Anyone have experience w/ Holland EL34 for BHSE and whether it's worth the price as an upgrade?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL34-PHILL...-QUAD-XF5-DD-VACUUM-TUBES-YWLSN/232724835160?


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## Rhamnetin

BuStaxski said:


> Good point. Thanks a lot. Not sure where to get a Ground Grid from though.



Yeah I don't know off hand which builders take requests. Grounded Grid aside I recommend a KGSSHV Carbon from mjolnir-audio audio.


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## Whitigir (Aug 17, 2018)

Holland are good, XF2 and XF3 are too rare and will be super expensive.

Lol @Rhamnetin ...I just see your signature ! Awesome


----------



## koven

Rhamnetin said:


> Yeah I don't know off hand which builders take requests. Grounded Grid aside I recommend a KGSSHV Carbon from mjolnir-audio audio.



I believe Soren takes build requests, love his minimal aesthetics, was nearly going with a Grounded Grid from him before stumbling upon a HeadAmp BHSE for sale.. which I could not resist.


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## Whitigir

koven said:


> I believe Soren takes build requests, love his minimal aesthetics, was nearly going with a Grounded Grid from him before stumbling upon a HeadAmp BHSE for sale.. which I could not resist.



Definitely recommending Soren


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## georgep (Aug 17, 2018)

koven said:


> Anyone have experience w/ Holland EL34 for BHSE and whether it's worth the price as an upgrade?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL34-PHILL...-QUAD-XF5-DD-VACUUM-TUBES-YWLSN/232724835160?



Holland DD are excellent tubes. Those are super pricey for used, though, especially where one has a replaced base.



Whitigir said:


> Holland are good, XF2 and XF3 are too rare and will be super expensive.
> 
> Lol @Rhamnetin ...I just see your signature ! Awesome



I would take Holland DD (XF3, XF4, XF5) over Brirtish XF2 and XF3 any day of the week. (edit: worth noting that some "Holland" DD are actually made in Belgium - they are just as good from my perspective).


----------



## koven

georgep said:


> Holland DD are excellent tubes. Those are super pricey for used, though, especially where one has a replaced base.
> 
> 
> 
> I would take Holland DD (XF3, XF4, XF5) over Brirtish XF2 and XF3 any day of the week.



What is a fair price for the Hollands? Any recommendations where to purchase?


----------



## georgep

BuStaxski said:


> Good point. Thanks a lot. Not sure where to get a Ground Grid from though.





Whitigir said:


> One of those builder would be Joe from Taiwan
> 
> Browse around here with google translate





Rhamnetin said:


> Yeah I don't know off hand which builders take requests. Grounded Grid aside I recommend a KGSSHV Carbon from mjolnir-audio audio.





Whitigir said:


> Definitely recommending Soren



For Grounded Grid, the two people mentioned are good suggestions. Not sure if there are any in North America (but there probably are).

There are probably a handful of Carbon builders in North America if you look hard. Maybe some of those would do the grounded grid as well.


----------



## JimL11

Rhamnetin said:


> I think it's time to start messing around with analog interconnects more because of how revealing the SR-009 + KGSSHV Carbon are. As expected, the Kimber Kable Hero on this system sounds infinitely better than cheap Mediabridge interconnects... a bigger difference than, for example, going from a Chord Mojo to a Hugo 2 when using an Audeze LCD-4/LFF Code-6 + Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar, and a bigger difference than going from a Schiit Lyr 3 to a Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar with the LCD-4 and Hugo 2 as the DAC.
> 
> So I'll just reiterate, don't cheap out on any critical components with a high end Stax system. I'm still using 14AWG power cords even (Pangea) and not so fancy power conditioning equipment (Furman M-8X2). I'll get to that eventually, not expecting significant changes there though so I will focus on more critical components first.



Not being a cable guy, I've settled on the Chris VenHaus DIY silver cables - very low capacitance (<20 pf/meter, MIT cable for example is over 200 pf/meter) makes them easy to drive, and one of my keen-eared friends tells me it is better than Kimber KCAG.



BuStaxski said:


> Budget I have is $5.000 not sure if I can pony up 10k.
> I have read some comments about Ground Grid and probably set my mine to it (of course if I read something against it I might change my mind)
> but I don't seems to find any Ground Grid for sale anywhere?



If you are willing or able to DIY the price equation changes significantly. The rule of thumb for high end is the cost of a finished product is five times the parts cost. Of course this varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. For example, by this rule the HeadAmp BHSE is underpriced, whereas the Trilogy H1, which is based on the simplest, cheapest, tube electrostatic amp circuit around, that any competent builder could whip up for a few hundred bucks, is grossly overpriced. Besides the cost savings, it is a fun hobby on its own, allows you to select your own parts, and there is the satisfaction of hearing music through something you built yourself. The downsides are your time and effort, and the possibility of building something that doesn't work and having to figure out how to fix it (i.e. troubleshooting). Head-Fi does have a DIY section, and there are other websites which are more heavily into DIY if that is the way you want to go.


----------



## BuStaxski

Rhamnetin said:


> Yeah I don't know off hand which builders take requests. Grounded Grid aside I recommend a KGSSHV Carbon from mjolnir-audio audio.


thanks. why is it that you recommend the mjolnir-audio from others here? anything one needs to aware of?


----------



## Rossliew

Because there's no waiting time and his builds are proven.


----------



## georgep

JimL11 said:


> Not being a cable guy, I've settled on the Chris VenHaus DIY silver cables - very low capacitance (<20 pf/meter, MIT cable for example is over 200 pf/meter) makes them easy to drive, and one of my keen-eared friends tells me it is better than Kimber KCAG.
> 
> 
> 
> If you are willing or able to DIY the price equation changes significantly. *The rule of thumb for high end is the cost of a finished product is five times the parts cost.* Of course this varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. For example, by this rule the HeadAmp BHSE is underpriced, whereas the Trilogy H1, which is based on the simplest, cheapest, tube electrostatic amp circuit around, that any competent builder could whip up for a few hundred bucks, is grossly overpriced. Besides the cost savings, it is a fun hobby on its own, allows you to select your own parts, and there is the satisfaction of hearing music through something you built yourself. The downsides are your time and effort, and the possibility of building something that doesn't work and having to figure out how to fix it (i.e. troubleshooting). Head-Fi does have a DIY section, and there are other websites which are more heavily into DIY if that is the way you want to go.



Not disagreeing with that - makes the T2 about $30k... ouch!


----------



## walakalulu

BuStaxski said:


> thanks. why is it that you recommend the mjolnir-audio from others here? anything one needs to aware of?



Don’t forget to add duty + VAT to uk import prices.


----------



## BuStaxski

JimL11 said:


> Not being a cable guy, I've settled on the Chris VenHaus DIY silver cables - very low capacitance (<20 pf/meter, MIT cable for example is over 200 pf/meter) makes them easy to drive, and one of my keen-eared friends tells me it is better than Kimber KCAG.
> 
> 
> 
> If you are willing or able to DIY the price equation changes significantly. The rule of thumb for high end is the cost of a finished product is five times the parts cost. Of course this varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. For example, by this rule the HeadAmp BHSE is underpriced, whereas the Trilogy H1, which is based on the simplest, cheapest, tube electrostatic amp circuit around, that any competent builder could whip up for a few hundred bucks, is grossly overpriced. Besides the cost savings, it is a fun hobby on its own, allows you to select your own parts, and there is the satisfaction of hearing music through something you built yourself. The downsides are your time and effort, and the possibility of building something that doesn't work and having to figure out how to fix it (i.e. troubleshooting). Head-Fi does have a DIY section, and there are other websites which are more heavily into DIY if that is the way you want to go.



Thank you very much. DIY is not my ballgame. Replacing a light bulp is as far as I go. Never heard the rule of thumb you mention. It sure looks nice the headamp bhse. Why do you think it is underpriced? is it a better deal compared to the ground grid?


----------



## BuStaxski

Rossliew said:


> Because there's no waiting time and his builds are proven.


how do you mean proven? are other builders not proven?


----------



## georgep

Didn't realize you were in GB. you should see if headinclouds (Geoff) is still building. He will be about $1000 cheaper than Mjolnir right off the bat for the Carbon, and you won't have the high shipping and import issues. I don't know if he ever built the grounded grid.


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## joseph69 (Aug 17, 2018)

koven said:


> Anyone have experience w/ Holland EL34 for BHSE and whether it's worth the price as an upgrade?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL34-PHILL...-QUAD-XF5-DD-VACUUM-TUBES-YWLSN/232724835160?


I've purchased and used NOS Holland Amperex 'Bugle Boy' EL34's ($650.00) in my BHSE for 1yr+ until I was recommended the NOS Svetlana 'Winged C' EL34 (+/-$250.00) which I've had in my BHSE +/-1yr. I never went back to using the NOS tubes because I preferred the Svetlana due to their clarity/detail & dynamics. The Amperex had too much bass presence which I found bled into the mid-range which caused a lack of clarity/detail & dynamics compared. Of course I only realized this after hearing the Svetlana because I never used any other tubes in my BHSE...not even the 'stock' tubes. The only thing I felt the Amperex had over the Svetlana was a more 3 dimensional presence. The Svetlana 'Winged C' actually taught me a good lesson about spending so much on NOS tubes in this case for the BHSE.

There's a member here who purchased the NOS Philips Miniwatt Holland made 'Metal Base" EL34 ($2400.00) and had the same experience with the bass being overwhelming, and returned them.


----------



## koven

joseph69 said:


> I've purchased and used NOS Holland Amperex 'Bugle Boy' EL34's ($650.00) in my BHSE for 1yr+ until I was recommended the Svetlana 'Winged C' EL34 (+/-$250.00) which I've had in my BHSE +/-1yr. I never went back to using the NOS tubes because I preferred the Svetlana due to their clarity/detail & dynamics. The Amperex had too much bass presence which I found bled into the mid-range which caused a lack of clarity/detail & dynamics compared. Of course I only realized this after hearing the Svetlana because I never used any other tubes in my BHSE...not even the 'stock' tubes. The only thing I felt the Amperex had over the Svetlana was a more 3 dimensional presence. The Svetlana 'Winged C' actually taught me a good lesson about spending so much on NOS tubes in this case for the BHSE.
> 
> There's a member here who purchased the NOS Philips Miniwatt Holland made 'Metal Base" EL34 ($2400.00) and had the same experience with the bass being overwhelming, and returned them.



That is helpful thank you. Winged C looks to be a very reasonable price, I may give that a shot instead!


----------



## georgep

Different people will always have their preferences regarding tubes. I have never heard the Winged C, but would love to try them some day. That said, I believe they are are technically old stock as production ceased years ago - so only used or NOS.


----------



## BuStaxski

georgep said:


> Didn't realize you were in GB. you should see if headinclouds (Geoff) is still building. He will be about $1000 cheaper than Mjolnir right off the bat for the Carbon, and you won't have the high shipping and import issues. I don't know if he ever built the grounded grid.


All right, thank you for the tip. do you know why his charge is so much lower?


----------



## joseph69

georgep said:


> Different people will always have their preferences regarding tubes. I have never heard the Winged C, but would love to try them some day. That said, I believe they are are technically old stock as production ceased years ago - so only used or NOS.


You're correct, they're NOS I will edit my post.
Thank you.


----------



## georgep

BuStaxski said:


> All right, thank you for the tip. do you know why his charge is so much lower?



Not entirely sure, except that Spritzer/Birgir has indicated that his import costs to Iceland are super high. It is also worth pointing out that Headinclouds uses a custom chassis for his builds which would cost much more than the off-the-shelf chassis that most other builders would use. He also typically uses an excellent stepped volume control which would exceed the cost of the standard volume controls used by most other builders (AlpsRK27 or Alpha pots).


----------



## walakalulu (Aug 17, 2018)

I visited Geoff last week to pick up his own KGST which he kindly sold me. He’s only building for himself at the moment and not Stax stuff I believe. The volume control on mine is an Acoustic Dimension 41 step 4 deck.


----------



## koven

georgep said:


> Different people will always have their preferences regarding tubes. I have never heard the Winged C, but would love to try them some day. That said, I believe they are are technically old stock as production ceased years ago - so only used or NOS.





joseph69 said:


> You're correct, they're NOS I will edit my post.
> Thank you.



This looks like a solid set of quads for a fair price?  https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL34-SVETLANA-WINGED-C-NOS-MATCHED-QUAD/310210519022


----------



## georgep

This post might be helpful in considering different aspects of a build.



mulveling said:


> Most of the boards out there should be pretty high quality, so I'd say the main variables are:
> 
> 
> Builder margin
> ...


----------



## mulveling

That reminds me I still have a "quad" of Winged C from several years ago. Except that I've somehow have lost one of the tubes over the years; for the life of my I can't find more than 3. No idea where/how a single EL34 rolls off. 

It was a totally different context from years ago, and a vintage Eico tube amp I compared them in (to British Mullard xf2, xf3, and xf4, plus various New-Sensor Russians). They were nice, but not my cup of tea. Definitely about as warm as the British Mullards, but in a way that seemed slightly forced and overdone to me, like when SS amps try to sound extra warm "like tubes". Also, they did seem to lack depth compared to the NOS tubes. @georgep mentioned the Hollands, and I think they're excellent too!


----------



## mulveling (Aug 17, 2018)

Edit: replied to an old post by accident


----------



## joseph69

koven said:


> This looks like a solid set of quads for a fair price?  https://www.ebay.com/itm/EL34-SVETLANA-WINGED-C-NOS-MATCHED-QUAD/310210519022


PM sent!


----------



## Rossliew

BuStaxski said:


> how do you mean proven? are other builders not proven?



I can't speak for others but spritzer has been at this game for quite a while and actively involved in coming out with different and updated designs of the amps. Pricey, yes but that's due in part to the high import costs to Iceland.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Rossliew said:


> I can't speak for others but spritzer has been at this game for quite a while and actively involved in coming out with different and updated designs of the amps. Pricey, yes but that's due in part to the high import costs to Iceland.



Yeah, and to elaborate further, there are other "proven" builders too like the aforementioned soren and headinclouds and Kerry and of course HeadAmp. I threw Birgir's name into the mix first since, like Rossliew said, he maintains an active website and there's no wait time beyond final testing which takes a day or two.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Fwiw, while he is only building for himself headinclouds builds are just beautiful. His GG which he shared a pic of in the bhse thread is stunning. His bhse bjt is styled the same. He says the GG is spoken for but he is actively building for himself and looks to be selling old amps every once in a while. Johnwmclean s builds are amazing too from what I have seen. Obviously I like spritzers builds and am very happy with my bhse from him.


----------



## rattler

Friends... Is there any feedback/reviews on Endless Audio Labs (Fukuoka, Japan)? They build KGSS products. Not much available on the internet.

They have a KGST and Carbon sale in Japan.


----------



## 336881

If any of you spent a day in pro audio you would not waste your time on inter connects. 99% of all studio's use Mogami/Neutrik as many more ic's are needed and that can still cost 5 figures. 

What will really make a difference is a good eq. Sadly there are not many out there.


----------



## tigon_ridge

antimatter said:


> What will really make a difference is a good eq. Sadly there are not many out there.



You don't need many. You only need one. APO is free, has a great user interface, and works flawlessly.


----------



## 336881 (Aug 18, 2018)

tigon_ridge said:


> You don't need many. You only need one. APO is free, has a great user interface, and works flawlessly.



Software eq? I tried my fair share and there was always some give and take. With something like a Cello or my own se-p900 there is no take and I can make piano's sound scary real.

To be fair if your were going to connect a record player to a Stax set-up then the cable/wiring is everything. From the stylus tip to the rca/xlr it counts and probably is your best money saver. The thing is if you know what to look for even this does not have to be super expensive. The denon dl-103r has wiring in it that I would put up against any $1k cart out there and their stylus and cantilever are no joke either, although any other 103 variant I do not like. Fidelity Research puts wiring in their tonearms that is cost no object and cost no object bearings to boot. Cyroparts frugal tonearm cable sounds as good to me as vdh. Buy all that and put the record player separate room and you really do not need much record player wise. A $250 sp25 motor unit in a $250 all wood plinth should be plenty, out last you and if for some reason it does break down there are a ton of sl-1200 parts that will slip right in.


----------



## koven

What do you guys wipe/clean your 009 pads with? Just plain water or any good products to use?


----------



## mulveling

koven said:


> What do you guys wipe/clean your 009 pads with? Just plain water or any good products to use?


Yeah good old tap water to damp a paper towel, then a good rub-down, should do it. I've never needed more than that; I'm pretty conscious to only wear Stax when clean and dry, for the most part.


----------



## joseph69

mulveling said:


> I'm pretty conscious to only wear Stax when clean and dry, for the most part.


I'm always fresh out of the shower when I listen to any of my headphones.


----------



## staticdynamo

STAX's official Pad cleaning video is on youtube. But Sorry explanations are all written in Japanese.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ_-pPJj1o7BsyLjq4quhWA


----------



## rgs9200m

I would buy from Spritzer just on principle since he's a great resource to the Stax community and the headphone-lovers community in general. 
And he's a great guy to deal with, always helpful and generous with his time and advice.


----------



## buzzlulu

rgs9200m said:


> I would buy from Spritzer just on principle since he's a great resource to the Stax community and the headphone-lovers community in general.
> And he's a great guy to deal with, always helpful and generous with his time and advice.



That's what I did.
I can't agree more with everything you said.
One additional accolade - customer service and communication bar none


----------



## BuStaxski

rgs9200m said:


> I would buy from Spritzer just on principle since he's a great resource to the Stax community and the headphone-lovers community in general.
> And he's a great guy to deal with, always helpful and generous with his time and advice.





buzzlulu said:


> That's what I did.
> I can't agree more with everything you said.
> One additional accolade - customer service and communication bar none



All right. Thank you both for your comments.
Do you have any personal experience with other builders as well?


----------



## themad

BuStaxski said:


> All right. Thank you both for your comments.
> Do you have any personal experience with other builders as well?



I have bought some cheaper amps/components from Spritzer. Perfect service and communication as mentioned.

And I bought a KGSShv from Geoff (headinclouds), built by himself. Great guy, top notch build. I'll soon put it up for sale. PM me in case you want more details about this amp. I'm in London, by the way.


----------



## BuStaxski

themad said:


> I have bought some cheaper amps/components from Spritzer. Perfect service and communication as mentioned.
> 
> And I bought a KGSShv from Geoff (headinclouds), built by himself. Great guy, top notch build. I'll soon put it up for sale. PM me in case you want more details about this amp. I'm in London, by the way.


All right. Thanks for your comment. I assume both provide top notch service and communication then.
I am looking for a Ground Grid or maybe a Carbon, but thanks anyway.


----------



## themad

BuStaxski said:


> All right. Thanks for your comment. I assume both provide top notch service and communication then.
> I am looking for a Ground Grid or maybe a Carbon, but thanks anyway.



 As the others mentioned, great choices! I'm sure you'll enjoy the journey


----------



## Whitigir

Don’t be mistaken, Soren is also deserving the same respect in this regard


----------



## astrostar59

BuStaxski said:


> All right. Thanks for your comment. I assume both provide top notch service and communication then.
> I am looking for a Ground Grid or maybe a Carbon, but thanks anyway.



I would PM Geoff. He is selling a few of his amps right now as having a clear the decks period. His builds are superb, the chassis design and build is top notch as well.

Here is the Carbon he built for me:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kgsshv-carbon-electrostatic-amplifier.870776/


----------



## tigon_ridge

Woow. My only nitpicks are: I don't like the numbers around the volume knob; the label "POWER" (power symbol would be better) above the obvious power switch; and the label "ELECTROSTATIC HEADPHONE AMPLIFIER." They're unnecessary. The name of the amp shouldn't be located underneath the knob, as it gets visually blocked out by it. Other than that, that is one beautiful enclosure. It looks simple, humble, and not flashy or pretentious like how so many high-end amps look, yet still somehow very sophisticated. I love it!


----------



## georgep

Also worth noting that Geoff and maybe one or two other builders don't use an off the shelf $80 chassis that can be found on eBay. Custom chassis adds a lot to the cost. Pretty much everyone one else uses low quality and cheap enclosures - but they do get the job done, and not everyone has the access to a machine shop willing to do small custom runs.


----------



## Whitigir

Yes, definitely agree about cheap chassis vs quality one.  The metal works can feel very differently.  I love the chassis of my T2 from George, he is like a tank


----------



## tigon_ridge (Aug 20, 2018)

The vent holes pattern above the chassis is such a nice touch. You can't really see it just by looking at this photo. Gotta see the other photo in the linked FS thread.


----------



## astrostar59

This angle is better, the lettering is not blocked by the volume pot, it is the camera angle.


----------



## tigon_ridge (Aug 20, 2018)

There's a small part of the PS board that isn't populated, namely 4 capacitors and what looks like 2 small regulators and a 3-pin power connector. I wonder what could be the reason?


----------



## astrostar59 (Aug 20, 2018)

tigon_ridge said:


> There's a small part of the PS board that isn't populated, namely 4 capacitors and what looks like 2 small regulators and a 3-pin power connector. I wonder what could be the reason?



This Carbon uses the 15v LV board which is a better version to using the parts count in that position on the PS board. Best to ask others the more technical aspects. Geoff also used big caps on the PS as you can see. There are various Carbon versions around, some with simpler PS boards or smaller PS layout. I can't say how those sound as not heard them. So not all Carbons are exactly the same.

Geoff uses then very good Torroidy transformer as well as the 48 step potentiometer, silver hook up etc. PM Geoff if you want more info.


----------



## georgep

Well that is because he is using a separate low voltage power supply  - the GRLV.


----------



## Rossliew

astrostar59 said:


> This Carbon uses the 15v LV board which is a better version to using the parts count in that position on the PS board. Best to ask others the more technical aspects. Geoff also used big caps on the PS as you can see. There are various Carbon versions around, some with simpler PS boards or smaller PS layout. I can't say how those sound as not heard them. So not all Carbons are exactly the same.
> 
> Geoff uses then very good Torroidy transformer as well as the 48 step potentiometer, silver hook up etc. PM Geoff if you want more info.



Julian, you still have a Carbon lying around?


----------



## astrostar59

Rossliew said:


> Julian, you still have a Carbon lying around?



Sorry, no. If you are after one, PM Geoff.


----------



## Rossliew

Nah, just curious as i thought you'd moved on to dynamics


----------



## Whitigir

tigon_ridge said:


> There's a small part of the PS board that isn't populated, namely 4 capacitors and what looks like 2 small regulators and a 3-pin power connector. I wonder what could be the reason?


You seem to be knowledgeable in electrical circuit.  The Carbon with GRHV and GRLV will be a good project for you if you want to go with Stax headphones.  Just as always, DIY net in the result you want the most, and save money


----------



## astrostar59

Rossliew said:


> Nah, just curious as i thought you'd moved on to dynamics



Baaa, not dynamics, Planars!


----------



## tigon_ridge

Whitigir said:


> You seem to be knowledgeable in electrical circuit.  The Carbon with GRHV and GRLV will be a good project for you if you want to go with Stax headphones.  Just as always, DIY net in the result you want the most, and save money



I'm an electrical engineering student, and I've already planned to build a Carbon in the not-so-near future, after the L700 is in my possession. I'm pretty sure it's massively overkill for the efficient L700, but I honestly just want to enjoy the process of building something challenging and of high quality. I'll eventually learn enough about the design to downgrade the power specs to where it won't be so overkill, and then build another one whose size sits somewhere between the SRM-252s and SRM-323s specifically to drive lambdas.


----------



## SeaWo|f

split grhv has bias on one board and LV on the other. In carbons that use the grlv no need to populate the lv portion of the grhv board.


----------



## rgs9200m (Aug 20, 2018)

I bought a used KGSS-hv from someone here, and even though I never bought anything directly from Spritzer and never gave him a dime, he helped me out with lots of emails back and forth since it was his product and he was proud of it.


And it sounds great and has worked perfectly for years and the build-quality and craftsmanship are excellent as far as I can tell.

And he gave me good advice on headphones too, even though I'm sure he's super-busy (and was moving at the time).

And if you read (elsewhere) all the research he's done on other amps (taking them apart and minutely analyzing them and writing long reports on it), you can see he's a gifted, dedicated engineer, right up there with Rob Watts.


----------



## mulveling

Man, that is one gorgeous Carbon, @astrostar59 !


----------



## oneguy

tigon_ridge said:


> I'm an electrical engineering student, and I've already planned to build a Carbon in the not-so-near future, after the L700 is in my possession. I'm pretty sure it's massively overkill for the efficient L700, but I honestly just want to enjoy the process of building something challenging and of high quality. I'll eventually learn enough about the design to downgrade the power specs to where it won't be so overkill, and then build another one whose size sits somewhere between the SRM-252s and SRM-323s specifically to drive lambdas.



It’s not overkill at all. I have a Carbon for my L700 and throughly enjoy it.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I agree if you can go for it. While out right power is not needed with the L series like it is with the 007. There will still be benefits to having the best quality amp you can. Especially with revealing headphones like stax. It may make you want to upgrade other parts of the chain though..


----------



## tigon_ridge

oneguy said:


> It’s not overkill at all. I have a Carbon for my L700 and throughly enjoy it.



Good to know that combo works well for you. To clarify, I meant "overkill" in terms of power requirement. If you can't go beyond 9 o'clock with the knob without losing your hearing, your amp might be just a tad overkill is roughly how I would assess it.


----------



## mulveling

tigon_ridge said:


> Good to know that combo works well for you. To clarify, I meant "overkill" in terms of power requirement. If you can't go beyond 9 o'clock with the knob without losing your hearing, your amp might be just a tad overkill is roughly how I would assess it.


Don't mistake gain for power. Sometimes less powerful amps have more net gain (e.g. some Stax amps vs BHSE). And not every source is a 4V+ output balanced DAC. Vinyl rigs with low-output MC cartridges sometimes need a little extra gain downstream.


----------



## tigon_ridge

mulveling said:


> Don't mistake gain for power. Sometimes less powerful amps have more net gain (e.g. some Stax amps vs BHSE). And not every source is a 4V+ output balanced DAC. Vinyl rigs with low-output MC cartridges sometimes need a little extra gain downstream.



Thanks for further clarification. Max power is ultimately dictated by the PS. I don't mean to imply loudness = more reserve power and dynamic range, but they do tend to go hand in hand. It's hard to imagine something that draws >150 watts not being overkill for a pair of headphones that can already be driven reasonably well by an amp hooked up to a 4W PS. My bedroom gets hot enough during the summer. I don't need a mini heater to make it any more uncomfortable.


----------



## oneguy

tigon_ridge said:


> Good to know that combo works well for you. To clarify, I meant "overkill" in terms of power requirement. If you can't go beyond 9 o'clock with the knob without losing your hearing, your amp might be just a tad overkill is roughly how I would assess it.



Ah ok well the 9 o’clock reference point is fairly accurate then unless you are doing DSD to PCM. There are a few DSD songs that require 10-11 o’clock. (Referencing 7 o’clock as no sound)


----------



## GarageBoy

I personally don't care how the amp looks (didn't used to be a requirement for audiophile equipment until they became luxury goods), how it sounds, and quality components and constructions is key 

In Spitzer/KG's google drive - which versions of the GRHV and LV gerber files would I need for a Carbon?

Thanks


----------



## Rhamnetin

I suppose a lot of us keep the volume at around 9 o'clock? Never before have I had a headphone system with as much spare power as the KGSSHV Carbon and Stax SR-009. Scary stuff.



astrostar59 said:


> I would PM Geoff. He is selling a few of his amps right now as having a clear the decks period. His builds are superb, the chassis design and build is top notch as well.
> 
> Here is the Carbon he built for me:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kgsshv-carbon-electrostatic-amplifier.870776/



This made my mouth water and I already have a Carbon.


----------



## raband

Hey guys,

Quick question.

Any recommendations on who would be the best to contact for a Carbon given that I live in Australia?


----------



## georgep

raband said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Quick question.
> 
> Any recommendations on who would be the best to contact for a Carbon given that I live in Australia?



John MacLean


----------



## raband

georgep said:


> John MacLean



Any link or email etc?


----------



## SeaWo|f

georgep said:


> John MacLean


Ive seen inside and outside pics of his work. Wow



GarageBoy said:


> I personally don't care how the amp looks (didn't used to be a requirement for audiophile equipment until they became luxury goods), how it sounds, and quality components and constructions is key
> 
> In Spitzer/KG's google drive - which versions of the GRHV and LV gerber files would I need for a Carbon?
> 
> Thanks


There are a few carbon board revisions. plus you need to decide on split(most prefer) or combined power supplies. There are also a few variations with the power supplies like optional hv delay(tubes) and cap size.


----------



## koven

I spy a sweet BHSE for sale in the classifieds, someone jump on that!


----------



## rgs9200m (Aug 21, 2018)

Like John Atkinson says (I think it was him, but it may be Dick Olsher), if the first watt isn't good, all the others don't matter.
Basically, it's quality first, quantity second.
(That's the origin behind the name First Watt by Nelson Pass.)


----------



## Whitigir

I am trying to find a reason to sell my 009 and just only be using 009S, and I still can’t justify doing it...these 2 are just so different from one another o_0.  Both are equally as enjoyable as one another


----------



## Rhamnetin

I wish there was a way to borrow an SR-009S so I could hear how it sounds on my system in the quiet of my home. I may be able to do that for the VOCE at least, but the VOCE isn't generally said to be on the SR-009's level technically.


----------



## VRacer-111

Rhamnetin said:


> I wish there was a way to borrow an SR-009S so I could hear how it sounds on my system in the quiet of my home. I may be able to do that for the VOCE at least, but the VOCE isn't generally said to be on the SR-009's level technically.



We need an SR-009S tour...


----------



## SeaWo|f

I would really like to here more from the community about the voce, fluffers aside of course. 

Dann 007 developed a diver imbalance that I couldn't solve by hitting it, so sent back for service. I'm staxless atm, meh.


----------



## mulveling

Whitigir said:


> I am trying to find a reason to sell my 009 and just only be using 009S, and I still can’t justify doing it...these 2 are just so different from one another o_0.  Both are equally as enjoyable as one another


Yep, I'm still stuck on this position too. Whatever I have on my head at the time is the best! But we're spoiled with the T2. On Purk's Carbon, it really was no comparison - I significantly preferred the 009S there.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Yes we should also disqualify those with at t2 of reviewing any headphone because they never get more than a sentence in before the original objective of said review is abandoned and it degenerates into purely praise for the t2..


----------



## Rhamnetin

SeaWo|f said:


> I would really like to here more from the community about the voce, fluffers aside of course.
> 
> Dann 007 developed a diver imbalance that I couldn't solve by hitting it, so sent back for service. I'm staxless atm, meh.



Ouch. I should probably pick up a used SR-007Mk2 or A as backup (current production) so that I never become Staxless.

I will definitely write my VOCE impressions here. Not sure when I will get my hands on one though.


----------



## headinclouds

Rhamnetin said:


> I will definitely write my VOCE impressions here. Not sure when I will get my hands on one though.



There is a Voce prototype impressions thread. There are views here, 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mrs...rototype-listening-impressions.804022/page-62

but the Voce is now a fully production headphone and I feel we should have a new  "Mr Speakers Voce" thread.

So I might start one tomorrow if someone else doesn't.


----------



## mrmarbach (Aug 23, 2018)

Hi everyone

My SRM-T1 has exploded. Or rather fizzled out to silence. No lights go on when I try to power it up.

I am in Germany. Should I trust "Stax" (ATR) to bring it back to spec? Or should I send it to someone independent (http://www.audio-reparatur.de for example)?

Any tips gratefully received.


----------



## Rhamnetin

headinclouds said:


> There is a Voce prototype impressions thread. There are views here,
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mrs...rototype-listening-impressions.804022/page-62
> 
> but the Voce is now a fully production headphone and I feel we should have a new  "Mr Speakers Voce" thread.
> ...



Good idea. By "here" I actually just meant on Head-Fi in general but yes we are in need of a VOCE thread.


----------



## mulveling

SeaWo|f said:


> Yes we should also disqualify those with at t2 of reviewing any headphone because they never get more than a sentence in before the original objective of said review is abandoned and it degenerates into purely praise for the t2..


Lol - guilty!


----------



## headinclouds

Rhamnetin said:


> Good idea. By "here" I actually just meant on Head-Fi in general but yes we are in need of a VOCE thread.



I've done it;
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mr-...static-headphone-thread.887301/#post-14441839


----------



## yakaway

I have a used SRM007ta for sale if you're interested


----------



## koven

All this T2 talk makes me feel like my BHSE is inadequate...


----------



## BuStaxski

koven said:


> All this T2 talk makes me feel like my BHSE is inadequate...


All right. Let's see some pics of your newly acquired BHSE, please


----------



## mulveling (Aug 24, 2018)

koven said:


> All this T2 talk makes me feel like my BHSE is inadequate...


Take heart, I enjoyed the hell out of the BHSE for 2 years, even knowing full well what Purk's T2 sounded like. It's still such a great amp compared to everything else. But then the voices in my head finally made me give in. And yes - pics! Color? I kinda always wanted one flashy like blue or purple or seafoam green. Champagne looks great! Silver is so well done, and black is so classy. Too hard to choose one.


----------



## JimL11

So, this is a bit of a guess as I've never laid eyes on any version fo the T2, and come to think of it, I've never driven a Porsche, but, using an auto analogy:

The T2 is like a Porsche 918 - ultra-exclusive, state of the art, very powerful (0-60 in 2.3 sec) and very complex

The BHSE is like a Porsche 911 GT3 - close to state of the art, a bit less powerful (0-60 in 3.0 sec) and somewhat less complex

The SRX Plus is like a Porsche Boxster - stripped down, a much simpler machine, less powerful (0-60 in 5 sec) but still a blast


----------



## koven (Aug 24, 2018)

BuStaxski said:


> All right. Let's see some pics of your newly acquired BHSE, please





mulveling said:


> Take heart, I enjoyed the hell out of the BHSE for 2 years, even knowing full well what Purk's T2 sounded like. It's still such a great amp compared to everything else. But then the voices in my head finally made me give in. And yes - pics! Color? I kinda always wanted one flashy like blue or purple or seafoam green. Champagne looks great! Silver is so well done, and black is so classy. Too hard to choose one.



Hah yeah, no doubt I'm enjoying the BHSE. Perhaps my wallet will have the appetite for T2 some day. 

I wish it was Champagne, that finish is gorgeous. I upgraded from a KGSShv, I would say the difference is noticeable but not night and day. I think it sounds great w/ stock tubes already but I do have some Svetlana Winged C en route per @joseph69's recommendation.

Anyway, here's my humble setup!


----------



## tigon_ridge

The BHSE is an upgrade from a noncarbon KGSShv? Is that a consensus?


----------



## JimL11

Yes, the consensus is that the Carbon and BHSE are at the same level, the KGSSHV is a level below.


----------



## joseph69

@Whitigir 
After looking at the photo posted by @koven, I realized that Stax even suspends the headphones by the suspension strap.


----------



## mulveling

koven said:


> Hah yeah, no doubt I'm enjoying the BHSE. Perhaps my wallet will have the appetite for T2 some day.
> 
> I wish it was Champagne, that finish is gorgeous. I upgraded from a KGSShv, I would say the difference is noticeable but not night and day. I think it sounds great w/ stock tubes already but I do have some Svetlana Winged C en route per @joseph69's recommendation.
> 
> Anyway, here's my humble setup!


Setup looks awesome!! Those Utopias were nice but I'm glad you've stepped up to this. Yes, consensus is the BHSE is better than KGSShv. And I've heard a lot of KGSShv's - BHSE (and Carbon) bests them all. But yes, some of those better KGSShv's can sound really great - they're not left _too_ much in the dust by the BHSE.


----------



## Rhamnetin

I sure would like HeadAmp to start making Grounded Grids, in a chassis very much like the BHSE's.


----------



## koven

joseph69 said:


> @Whitigir
> After looking at the photo posted by @koven, I realized that Stax even suspends the headphones by the suspension strap.



Before I got the stand I just left mine in the box. 

I have to admit it's a bit unsettling to leave the headband stretched but it is a Stax stand afterall, I assume it's fine?!


----------



## mulveling (Aug 25, 2018)

koven said:


> Before I got the stand I just left mine in the box.
> 
> I have to admit it's a bit unsettling to leave the headband stretched but it is a Stax stand afterall, I assume it's fine?!


I’ve done it for years now on my 009; no sign of problems yet. I like the Stax stands. More problematic I think would be if it compressed the pads on one end.


----------



## koven

mulveling said:


> I’ve done it for years now on my 009; no sign of problems yet. I like the Stax stands. More problematic I think would be if it compressed the pads on one end.



Good to hear. Yeah I like the stand as well. Just need a Stax dust cover now!


----------



## SeaWo|f

Rhamnetin said:


> I sure would like HeadAmp to start making Grounded Grids, in a chassis very much like the BHSE's.


Those with both have stated that they sound very similar and I think justin stated something along the lines of that he had parts for years more of BHES so this would seem rather pointless.

He is working on his own design that unfortunately there is very little know other than its existence and a few other unconfirmed anecdotes.


----------



## BuStaxski

koven said:


> Hah yeah, no doubt I'm enjoying the BHSE. Perhaps my wallet will have the appetite for T2 some day.
> 
> I wish it was Champagne, that finish is gorgeous. I upgraded from a KGSShv, I would say the difference is noticeable but not night and day. I think it sounds great w/ stock tubes already but I do have some Svetlana Winged C en route per @joseph69's recommendation.
> 
> Anyway, here's my humble setup!



All right. That is veeeeeery nice indeed.


----------



## Pahani

koven said:


> Good to hear. Yeah I like the stand as well. Just need a Stax dust cover now!



Yeah, I'm using the "Official" Stax stand and still need the dust cover as well!

Slightly off topic, I like your "poopy pants" description  My HT subs are tuned to 13hz, but no idea if they hit 150dB...probably not. My room is horrible acoustically.  Dual SVS PB-16 Ultras.


----------



## Painiyff

Does anyone know if the 353x (and/or 353xbk) sounds better than 323s? Wondering if it's worth the upgrade even though I don't have a balanced dac yet.


----------



## joseph69

koven said:


> I have to admit it's a bit unsettling to leave the headband stretched but it is a Stax stand afterall, I assume it's fine?!


I don't find it unsettling. Like @mulveling, I've had both of my Stax hanging from their suspension straps since new without issue. I'd also be more concerned about flattening the pads over time using the Stax stand as @mulveling mentioned. I actually keep a block of foam inside my 007 MK2 separating the bottoms of the pads from touching each other so they don't deform due to their slight clamping force from the absence of being designed without yokes. The 009 hang straight without any clamping force against the pads due to the yokes, so no issues there.


----------



## Whitigir (Aug 25, 2018)

I use Woo stand and hang by the band.  It solves both problems of the earpads and the strap , also take care of the wires


----------



## SeaWo|f

^^^ This is what I do/have on my table next to my listening chairs, only for when they are in use otherwise they sit in my cabinet.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

koven said:


> Before I got the stand I just left mine in the box.
> 
> I have to admit it's a bit unsettling to leave the headband stretched but it is a Stax stand afterall, I assume it's fine?!


Letting any Stax on official Stax stand ends up by stretching the headpad a little. I've just changed the headpad on my 5 years old 009, and the stretch is noticeable. And I've always used my notorious toilet roll mod on the official stand : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-515#post-12249255 

Except for my oldest ones (before the pad appeared with SR-Lambda in 1979), I'm using this thing as stand :





My Stax phones are suspended by the plastic arc, you can fit two of them on it, you can even put the official cover over it (but it's a tight fit), and it costs 10 to 14 €. Highly recommended 

Ali


----------



## tgipier

How does SR-009 compare to SR-009s, is it a considerable difference?


----------



## Rhamnetin

tgipier said:


> How does SR-009 compare to SR-009s, is it a considerable difference?



Disclaimer to those who respond: Please don't focus your response on how unbelievably good the T2 is.


----------



## KaiserTK

I got a chance to compare the 009 vs 009S today on the BHSE and these two have quite pronounced differences. 
The 009S seems to compress the soundstage but make every sound a lot cleaner and bass more tight. I enjoyed some Diana Krall better on the 009S, but songs like Al DiMeola I still liked the 009 more.
This was just my first impressions and the 009 pads were more worn down than the 009S pads so YMMV.


----------



## Whitigir

KaiserTK said:


> I got a chance to compare the 009 vs 009S today on the BHSE and these two have quite pronounced differences.
> The 009S seems to compress the soundstage but make every sound a lot cleaner and bass more tight. I enjoyed some Diana Krall better on the 009S, but songs like Al DiMeola I still liked the 009 more.
> This was just my first impressions and the 009 pads were more worn down than the 009S pads so YMMV.


About the pads...my 009 pads are much softer than 009S X_X


----------



## SeaWo|f

Seal isn't as good and there probably other issues affecting sound but we worn stax omega pads are super comfy imo.


----------



## ahmedie

Painiyff said:


> Does anyone know if the 353x (and/or 353xbk) sounds better than 323s? Wondering if it's worth the upgrade even though I don't have a balanced dac yet.


I had both for very long period, 323s sound better than 353x


----------



## Ali-Pacha

ahmedie said:


> I had both for very long period, 323s sound better than 353x


Any idea why ? They should be the same technically, no ?

Ali


----------



## luthersloan

Hi everybody! Glad to see so much knowledge around here. After owning a L700 and SRM-353X for few days, I first noticed today that the amp/energizer permanently makes a an electrical buzzing sound, combined with a quiet slight humming. It's annoying in a quiet room at night. I'm inexperienced, these are my first STAX. Is the normal mode of the amp completely silent? Or is this sound fairly normal? Would this be a typical "grounding issue" as described in the manual? What would I need to connect to the GRND terminal, and where would I connect it... Didn't find anything on that, hope you can help.

edit: Already tried another power outlet.


----------



## xevman

Have you tried disconnecting the source feeding the srm353x? With the l700 connected to the amp and no source feeding them does the sound persist, if yes its likely the unit is defective.


----------



## xevman

Does anyone know if an SRM323II is adequete for driving SR007 MKii or will it struggle? I heard that SR007 MKII aren't as efficient as the Lambda line as a general rule of thumb.


----------



## Rhamnetin

xevman said:


> Does anyone know if an SRM323II is adequete for driving SR007 MKii or will it struggle? I heard that SR007 MKII aren't as efficient as the Lambda line as a general rule of thumb.



Volume shouldn't be a problem, but that will not bring the SR-007 near its full potential.


----------



## xevman

I'm sure it would be beneficial to run with a better energizer but I doubt it will make a night and day difference. I've auditioned the L700 with much higher end energizers and the differences were subtle at best.


----------



## Rhamnetin (Aug 26, 2018)

xevman said:


> I'm sure it would be beneficial to run with a better energizer but I doubt it will make a night and day difference. I've auditioned the L700 with much higher end energizers and the differences were subtle at best.



L700 is in another league, less amp picky. As a former SR-007A owner, if I were to assign arbitrary numbers to it, it can go from being a 6/10 system to a 9/10 system, when comparing a KGSS to a BHSE. Not even sure where Stax amps would fall, but it'd be below the KGSS I'm sure.

And once you get a BHSE tier amp in the mix, DAC starts to matter a TON. All of a sudden the Chord Mojo or yesteryear's upper tier DACs (like my Bel Canto DAC 3 for reference) are way behind the likes of the Chord Hugo 2 and the differences are no longer subtle like they were with the KGSS.


----------



## luthersloan

xevman said:


> Have you tried disconnecting the source feeding the srm353x? With the l700 connected to the amp and no source feeding them does the sound persist, if yes its likely the unit is defective.



I'll try tomorrow. Maybe I should clarify that the sound origins from the energizer itself, the earspeaker sound on both channels is fine with no buzz. So the powered-up energizer in general makes no noises at all?


----------



## pegasus21

luthersloan said:


> I'll try tomorrow. Maybe I should clarify that the sound origins from the energizer itself, the earspeaker sound on both channels is fine with no buzz. So the powered-up energizer in general makes no noises at all?



My 353X makes no audible noise when it is in operation


----------



## xevman

The STAX energizers assuming everything is ok should make 0 noise. My srm323ii plugged into varying sources with nothing playing on maximum volume has no background noise.


----------



## astrostar59

xevman said:


> The STAX energizers assuming everything is ok should make 0 noise. My srm323ii plugged into varying sources with nothing playing on maximum volume has no background noise.



You will get some noise from the Stax units that have tubes. 


Rhamnetin said:


> L700 is in another league, less amp picky. As a former SR-007A owner, if I were to assign arbitrary numbers to it, it can go from being a 6/10 system to a 9/10 system, when comparing a KGSS to a BHSE. Not even sure where Stax amps would fall, but it'd be below the KGSS I'm sure.
> 
> And once you get a BHSE tier amp in the mix, DAC starts to matter a TON. All of a sudden the Chord Mojo or yesteryear's upper tier DACs (like my Bel Canto DAC 3 for reference) are way behind the likes of the Chord Hugo 2 and the differences are no longer subtle like they were with the KGSS.



Indeed, DACs have a big impact on the sound as you up the headphone and amp. I am confused why so many ignore it. It is not unlike adding a big full range high end speaker v a bookshelf, it is going to reveal a lot more...either as problems or better sound. Often better sound, but then you realise the other bits of the chain.... the thrills and spills of this hobby!


----------



## Whitigir

Neither my T2 nor Grounded Grid has any noises at max volume.  I used it that way when my DAC has volume attenuation on it own.  So, KG is the legend!


----------



## astrostar59

Whitigir said:


> Neither my T2 nor Grounded Grid has any noises at max volume.  I used it that way when my DAC has volume attenuation on it own.  So, KG is the legend!



Interesting. Is the pot at the output or the input on your GG? My only concert running the amp at full output is clicks and pops via the mains or something coming into the headphones. I can see the logic otherwise, though many DACs that use software attenuation are not great, loosing resolution and dynamics. I prefer a tradition pot if possible. Though the TotalDAC digital volume is very good.


----------



## walakalulu

Completely agree on the importance of the dac. I tried a dcs, Chord and ARC before settling on the latter. They all sounded quite different into the 009’s.


----------



## Whitigir

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. Is the pot at the output or the input on your GG? My only concert running the amp at full output is clicks and pops via the mains or something coming into the headphones. I can see the logic otherwise, though many DACs that use software attenuation are not great, loosing resolution and dynamics. I prefer a tradition pot if possible. Though the TotalDAC digital volume is very good.


Input, these can be bypassed by not using any attenuation in the amp.  I think Micheal does not use it in any of the KG designs that he has made


----------



## tigon_ridge

Whitigir said:


> Input, these can be bypassed by not using any attenuation in the amp.  I think Micheal does not use it in any of the KG designs that he has made



Since no one has asked yet...what is the advantage to this implementation in combination with DAC-only attenuation, vs attenuating via the volume pot?


----------



## astrostar59

tigon_ridge said:


> Since no one has asked yet...what is the advantage to this implementation in combination with DAC-only attenuation, vs attenuating via the volume pot?



If you have a traditional (resistor) style pot on your DAC, no / little difference, but the capacitance in the interconnect my affect it a bit. So IMO set the DAC to full signal output.
If your DAC has digital attention, the same story, except many DACs attenuation with this method can be suspect, loss of resolution and dynamics.

I believe the BHSE for example has the pot at the input? So best us the pot on the amp IMO.


----------



## SeaWo|f

If you are building amps for yourself or are commissioning them and have a good collection this can save you a lot of money.

Rk50s and high-end steppers don't cone cheap.


----------



## astrostar59

SeaWo|f said:


> If you are building amps for yourself or are commissioning them and have a good collection this can save you a lot of money.
> 
> Rk50s and high-end steppers don't cone cheap.


I had an excellent 41 stepped attenuator in my Carbon, great sound and nice positive action, no clicks. It cost around 220 euros. The RK50 is good, but can be equalled for less IMO.
And lately we have more relay based attenuators with remote control coming through, also great quality.


----------



## JimL11

tigon_ridge said:


> Since no one has asked yet...what is the advantage to this implementation in combination with DAC-only attenuation, vs attenuating via the volume pot?





astrostar59 said:


> If you have a traditional (resistor) style pot on your DAC, no / little difference, but the capacitance in the interconnect my affect it a bit. So IMO set the DAC to full signal output.
> If your DAC has digital attention, the same story, except many DACs attenuation with this method can be suspect, loss of resolution and dynamics.
> 
> I believe the BHSE for example has the pot at the input? So best us the pot on the amp IMO.



It depends. With digital attenuation, there is the concern of whether you lose bits as you attenuate.

An attenuator at the output of a DAC could be a bad idea depending on the implementation. For example, suppose you have a tube output DAC with a 100k pot (since the tube can't adequately drive a 5k pot for example) at the end into a cable of average capacitance, say 100pf, coupled with a tube input stage on your amp, which adds another 100pf, for a total of 200pf. Now, worst case scenario with the pot at -6db down, the output resistance is 25 kilohms, and in combination with the 200pf load, this forms a low pass RC filter which is -1 dB at 16 kHz and -3dB at about 32 kHz. Of course, some cables are higher capacitance - for example an old MIT cable I measured at about 250pf, which drops the -3 dB point to 18 kHz. Granted this is something of a worst case scenario, but it shows what can happen if you have an inappropriate combination of pot and cable. 

Amps generally have their volume pots at the input, so all they have to contend with is the capacitance of the input stage. For volume controls of 100k or less, this is generally not an issue, although is you have a wideband amplifier, you can measure differences in the frequency response which vary with the pot setting if you go high enough.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Speaking of interconnects, are there any low capacitance high quality interconnects that are not very laid back sounding that you guys like with your Stax systems? I am still testing out different ones.


----------



## tigon_ridge

So the answer is: generally no advantage whatsoever, except you save a couple hundred bucks. However, I do want to address the concern about losing resolution due to the compression of dynamic range. I do think that if your DAC already has great dynamic range, at some point the loss in data becomes undetectable by the human brain. It's just like the case in modern cameras that may have better dynamic range than even the human eyes; i.e. you can afford to compress and lose a bit of dynamic range in a photo, because you won't be able to see the difference anyway. In my case, I like to use my software parametric EQ a lot, and haven't noticed any loss of details.



JimL11 said:


> It depends. With digital attenuation, there is the concern of whether you lose bits as you attenuate.
> 
> An attenuator at the output of a DAC could be a bad idea depending on the implementation. For example, suppose you have a tube output DAC with a 100k pot (since the tube can't adequately drive a 5k pot for example) at the end into a cable of average capacitance, say 100pf, coupled with a tube input stage on your amp, which adds another 100pf, for a total of 200pf. Now, worst case scenario with the pot at -6db down, the output resistance is 25 kilohms, and in combination with the 200pf load, this forms a low pass RC filter which is -1 dB at 16 kHz and -3dB at about 32 kHz. Of course, some cables are higher capacitance - for example an old MIT cable I measured at about 250pf, which drops the -3 dB point to 18 kHz. Granted this is something of a worst case scenario, but it shows what can happen if you have an inappropriate combination of pot and cable.
> 
> Amps generally have their volume pots at the input, so all they have to contend with is the capacitance of the input stage. For volume controls of 100k or less, this is generally not an issue, although is you have a wideband amplifier, you can measure differences in the frequency response which vary with the pot setting if you go high enough.



What are some ways to minimize the input capacitance? Is this why some people prefer to integrate DAC and amp into one unit rather than connecting them by cables? How do cable length, gauge, and constitution affect its capacitance?


----------



## tigon_ridge

Rhamnetin said:


> Speaking of interconnects, are there any low capacitance high quality interconnects that are not very laid back sounding that you guys like with your Stax systems? I am still testing out different ones.



I can definitely see how in some cases, hi capacitance is desirable, such as to tame high frequencies. I can't hear above 16kHz anyway, and I find that frequencies above 8kHz or so can be quite painful when I'm listening at loud volumes. Maybe these "high quality," super expensive cables are more apt for quiet listening levels.


----------



## Rhamnetin

tigon_ridge said:


> I can definitely see how in some cases, hi capacitance is desirable, such as to tame high frequencies. I can't hear above 16kHz anyway, and I find that frequencies above 8kHz or so can be quite painful when I'm listening at loud volumes. Maybe these "high quality," super expensive cables are more apt for quiet listening levels.



Yeah I am trying not to tame them. I know that Cardas Clears have very low capacitance, so I will try those. As does Danacables but they can't be borrowed so I'm gonna have to rule them out.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian (Aug 30, 2018)

I'm about to sell my whole setup to finance stax lol. I'm still not sure it's worth it.

I could afford it if I just got the 3100, but I want to get the Woo Wee converter and a good power amp, for clarity and soundstage.  I'm probably gonna get the Parasound Z-amp v3 as a power amp, run through the SMSL M6's quite-respectable DAC.  Gonna miss switching between $300 pairs between tracks, rolling op-amps, and staring at my beautiful steampunk little dot.

Does anyone have experience with the Woo and the stock energizer? Are the sound differences worth the money?  Anecdotes about the Stax SRM-323 vs 252 ( figure this is a reasonable analog if no anecdotes can be found for the woo)?


----------



## mulveling

Rhamnetin said:


> Yeah I am trying not to tame them. I know that Cardas Clears have very low capacitance, so I will try those. As does Danacables but they can't be borrowed so I'm gonna have to rule them out.


If you want to minimize capacitance then going for a Phono cable is an easy play, but usually the AWG will be very small as well.

I’ve used and liked silver Audioquest cables - Wind, Fire, and Wild are good, and come up used at big discounts. Not as low capacitance as their Phono cables, but easily low enough to not cause problems.


----------



## Rhamnetin (Aug 30, 2018)

mulveling said:


> If you want to minimize capacitance then going for a Phono cable is an easy play, but usually the AWG will be very small as well.
> 
> I’ve used and liked silver Audioquest cables - Wind, Fire, and Wild are good, and come up used at big discounts. Not as low capacitance as their Phono cables, but easily low enough to not cause problems.



Thanks, I think I'll borrow a Wind. I'll have to look around for used interconnects, maybe Audiogon since there don't seem to be a lot of them for sale here.

I guess that also raises the question: is there an audible difference with an SR-009 system between low enough capacitance and ultra low? Assuming other variables don't differ too wildly.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Idk if anyone has experience with them but dyson audio has inexpensive solid core silver interconnects. Might be worth a look.


----------



## JimL11

Rhamnetin said:


> Yeah I am trying not to tame them. I know that Cardas Clears have very low capacitance, so I will try those. As does Danacables but they can't be borrowed so I'm gonna have to rule them out.



Cardas clear is specified at 16 pf/ft for RCA connection, which is relatively low. Kimber KCAG is similar. Blue Jeans LC-1 cable runs 12.2 pf/foot and is very reasonable in cost, although it may be considered too down market for this thread. The lowest capacitance cable I have measured is Chris VenHaus's DIY silver cable which measures < 6 pf/foot. Unshielded though, which may or may not be a problem.



mulveling said:


> If you want to minimize capacitance then going for a Phono cable is an easy play, but usually the AWG will be very small as well.
> 
> I’ve used and liked silver Audioquest cables - Wind, Fire, and Wild are good, and come up used at big discounts. Not as low capacitance as their Phono cables, but easily low enough to not cause problems.



AWG isn't an issue for interconnects - 30 gauge AWG can carry over 50 mA current without any problems, and no line level signal will require even 1% of that much current, unless you are running 600 ohm professional gear. The main issue with 30 gauge wire is that it is so thin it is difficult to work with.

Given the typical margins for high-end cables, I think used is the way to go.


----------



## mulveling (Aug 30, 2018)

Rhamnetin said:


> Thanks, I think I'll borrow a Wind. I'll have to look around for used interconnects, maybe Audiogon since there don't seem to be a lot of them for sale here.
> 
> I guess that also raises the question: is there an audible difference with an SR-009 system between low enough capacitance and ultra low? Assuming other variables don't differ too wildly.


As mentioned before, I think the input impedance on most electrostatic amps (50K - 100K) makes this a non-issue. In the vinyl world, capacitance can be a real issue for interconnects between an MC stepup transformer and a 47K input phono stage - because the reflected impedance is much much lower than that 47K. The biggest differences I've heard by far, in cable swapping, has been in that slot. I've had higher-quality 1m interconnects lost out badly to lesser 0.5m interconnects in that slot, probably because it's so sensitive to cable capacitance - and a low capacitance phono cable was the easy winner here. Feeding these same cables into Stax amps there are no such issues; the highest quality cable (best solid-core silver in air tube) wins as expected. So I wouldn't worry about that unless you're wanting to try some crazy cable design with an exceedingly high capacitance.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Thanks for the education as usual everyone. I will be taking all of your advice. And I definitely hope to buy used due to the prices of some of these. I'll look into Dyson as well, and I wasn't aware the KCAG had such low capacitance (I was also looking into borrowing a KCTG).


----------



## Ojisan

Rhamnetin said:


> Speaking of interconnects, are there any low capacitance high quality interconnects that are not very laid back sounding that you guys like with your Stax systems? I am still testing out different ones.



With my limited experiment, I made a 1-ft XLR cable using Mogami 3173 (AES/EBU cable, 15.3pF/ft) and Mogami 2549 (3.4pf or 23pf/ft depending on where you measure it) and 3173 has consistently given me slightly brighter but less weight versus 2549 with a warmer and more weightier sound. I was quite surprised that there is a noticeable difference with such short cable between amp and DAC. Just my $0.02 for another data point...


----------



## VRacer-111

AthenaZephyrian said:


> I'm about to sell my whole setup to finance stax lol. I'm still not sure it's worth it.
> 
> I could afford it if I just got the 3100, but I want to get the Woo Wee converter and a good power amp, for clarity and soundstage.  I'm probably gonna get the Parasound Z-amp v3 as a power amp, run through the SMSL M6's quite-respectable DAC.  Gonna miss switching between $300 pairs between tracks, rolling op-amps, and staring at my beautiful steampunk little dot.
> 
> Does anyone have experience with the Woo and the stock energizer? Are the sound differences worth the money?  Anecdotes about the Stax SRM-323 vs 252 ( figure this is a reasonable analog if no anecdotes can be found for the woo)?



If you can, try out the L300 before you decide to go in on one. No issue with sound, but comfort can be an issue with pads as thin as stock T50RP pads. L500 and L700 pads are much more comfortable being thicker and keeping your ears off the driver screen protection. 

As for differences between STAX drivers (SRM-323S) and an Estat transformer with amp (Mjolnir SRD-7 powered from NAD C275BEE for my setup) there is a noticeable difference - mainly in the presentation of the low end, the dynamics, and fullness of the sound. The amp used will be the major factor in the sound quality you will get from a Estat transformer/stereo amp setp. SRM-323S is a nice driver unit though, and there is not much of a difference in detail, speed, and clarity compared with an Estat transformer and good amp setup.


----------



## 336881 (Aug 30, 2018)

mulveling said:


> As mentioned before, I think the input impedance on most electrostatic amps (50K - 100K) makes this a non-issue. In the vinyl world, capacitance can be a real issue for interconnects between an MC stepup transformer and a 47K input phono stage - because the reflected impedance is much much lower than that 47K. The biggest differences I've heard by far, in cable swapping, has been in that slot. I've had higher-quality 1m interconnects lost out badly to lesser 0.5m interconnects in that slot, probably because it's so sensitive to cable capacitance - and a low capacitance phono cable was the easy winner here. Feeding these same cables into Stax amps there are no such issues; the highest quality cable (best solid-core silver in air tube) wins as expected. So I wouldn't worry about that unless you're wanting to try some crazy cable design with an exceedingly high capacitance.



Yep. Phono is just about the only area where I will concede that a high quality low capacitance cable really makes a difference. Putting the record player in another separate room triples it value sound wise. Most people will tell you to make the phono cable as short as possible and if the record player is in the same room as the rest of the gear they are right but if you have the option of another separate room I say go for it. I like cryoparts frugal cable. A 20ft. cable would probably be around $350-400. Van den hul is probably #1 in this arena but quite a bit pricier and not much better than the frugal imo.

Everything else I would just use mogami/neutrik.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

I've heard about the pads, and am getting a pair of SoCas adapters, to roll the excellent pads from my MSR7's.  People tell me to audition headphones...I guess I'm an idiot for not visiting Walmart's "Summit-fi" section to listen.  In all seriousness, though, where the heck do you guys go to audition very high end cans?  I can't imagine Stax are common, even at headphone shops, given that people these days like sleeker aesthetics.  

Unfortunately, I'm comparing the 252s to the 323s,....and people say the 252s is garbage.  I don't know that I could afford the 323.


----------



## mulveling (Aug 31, 2018)

Employ the old days of head-fi method, which was close to the only method available to most of us for a while: but used, try it, sell if you don’t like it or when you want to upgrade.

If you buy and sell carefully, high end headphone gear has better residual value than just about any other consumer good. The used market here is very strong and healthy.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

mulveling said:


> Employ the old days of head-fi method, which was close to the only method available to most of us for a while: but used, try it, sell if you don’t like it or when you want to upgrade.
> 
> If you buy and sell carefully, high end headphone gear has better residual value than just about any other consumer good. The used market here is very strong and healthy.



I guess I could finance the 323s and the L300's, and it would be easier to resell than the woo/parasound stack.  I can't find any used stax 252s or 3100 sets.  Thanks for the advice.


----------



## richford

Currawong said:


> Due to the large page count and recent amount of off-topic posting, I've restarted this thread.
> 
> As Carl said back in 2007:
> 
> ...


----------



## richford

Please excuse me if I'm posting in the wrong place - I was pointed here by another user. I have a NEW question about Stax SR Sigma (1980s I think, coupled with passive energizer)

I am trying to ascertain what the most appropriate acoustic wool replacement would be to refresh what's there at the moment inside the ear cups. [What I have currently looks similar to chamois leather.]
And also where to obtain the replacement material.


----------



## xevman

Does anyone know how to remove earpads on SR009? I'm thinking of replacing mine in the near future and cant for the life of me figure out how to remove the old ones.


----------



## statfi

xevman said:


> Does anyone know how to remove earpads on SR009? I'm thinking of replacing mine in the near future and cant for the life of me figure out how to remove the old ones.


This is what I do.  There is a dust screen with a very flexible "frame" held in place by the earpods themselves.  The ear pads themselves stretch quite easily without damage.  Pull the dust screen out through the ear holes in the pads, deforming its frame as needed and stretching the pads themselves a bit.  *Note the rotation of the ear pads so you can replace them in the correct orientation!  The pads have a "flap" covering their inner surface (opposite the surface that rests against your head).  When the pads were installed, a metal plate was inserted between the flap and the main body of the pad, so that the flap actually holds it in place.  Then the plate was secured to the ear cups with 6 Philips-head, self tapping screws per side.  I use a lot of axial force on #1 precision screw driver to remove the screws without stripping their heads.  Note how much torque it requires to start the screws turning, so you have a feel for how much to tighten them upon re-assembly.  After the screws are out, the plate and earpad "fall off" the ear cup.  The screws hold the plate to the polymer material inside the ear cup.  When replacing the screws I am careful to allow the screws to gently "find" the threads that have already been cut into the holes , as opposed to cutting new threads, and to not strip those threads.  After the earpads are replaced, re-insert the dust screens, to get back to the approved listening condition.  (FWIW, I prefer the sound of the 009 without the dust pads in place, as discussed elsewhere on this thread.)


----------



## statfi

BTW, all typos are to be blamed on the live spell checker that thinks it knows what I mean  !-)


----------



## VRacer-111

AthenaZephyrian said:


> I've heard about the pads, and am getting a pair of SoCas adapters, to roll the excellent pads from my MSR7's.  People tell me to audition headphones...I guess I'm an idiot for not visiting Walmart's "Summit-fi" section to listen.  In all seriousness, though, where the heck do you guys go to audition very high end cans?  I can't imagine Stax are common, even at headphone shops, given that people these days like sleeker aesthetics.
> 
> Unfortunately, I'm comparing the 252s to the 323s,....and people say the 252s is garbage.  I don't know that I could afford the 323.



Any headphone meets around where you are? Look in the Local/regional meets section of the forum. If you are close enough to travel to a major metropolitan its pretty much guaranteed to have STAX setups at meets.

Used is how I got my L300 (with SoCas pad adapters) and 323S to start out - less than $800 for everything. Reason I went to transformer based system was I already had the stereo amp from my HT system and wanted to compare it with the SRM-323S. So I only needed to buy the Mjolnir SRD-7 transformer, which sale of the SRM-323S (after comparing with the Mjolnir SRD-7 and absolutely deciding to keep the SRD-7) recovered a majority of its cost back.


----------



## mulveling (Aug 31, 2018)

AthenaZephyrian said:


> I guess I could finance the 323s and the L300's, and it would be easier to resell than the woo/parasound stack.  I can't find any used stax 252s or 3100 sets.  Thanks for the advice.


That should be a very good starter Stax system. I've never tried the step-up transformer route, but other enthusiasts with more technical knowledge have advised that this is inferior to direct electrostatic amplifiers (i.e. you're not hearing Stax headphones as intended without an electrostatic amp). Some folks do like the roll-off/warming effect of transformers, though.

With some patience, good Stax systems will come up used. You can also use hifishark.com (search aggregator specifically for used hifi gear) to search many used audio marketplaces at once.

Stax can be at a bit of a disadvantage in a meet setting because of their extremely open nature, and also because it's hard to push the volume very loud without distortion (in compensation for high ambient noise) until you get to very expensive amplifiers. Also it takes some time for the Stax brain slug to come out and affix into your brain (it's shy at first)  Best way to evaluate gear is always in your own home!


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

VRacer-111 said:


> Any headphone meets around where you are?



I'll take a look.  I'm kinda anxious to buy 'em, but I should be patient.  It's like being a kid on xmas eve, and you know Santa is bringing you a 1/3 scale Saturn V.  

I'm definitely interested in used...but there's no solid, affordable, non-vintage energizer on the Head Fi market or eBay at the moment.   Maybe a meetup will have some.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

mulveling said:


> That should be a very good starter Stax system.  It's hard to push the volume very loud without distortion (in compensation for high ambient noise) until you get to very expensive amplifiers.



Solid information, thanks!! I'm trying to talk myself into the 323 over the 252 right now.  If the 252 suffer from distortion that badly at high volume (by high, you mean "somewhere near a concert" or "louder than ~95dB"?  If they start having problems around concert volume, that's fne)


----------



## mulveling

AthenaZephyrian said:


> Solid information, thanks!! I'm trying to talk myself into the 323 over the 252 right now.  If the 252 suffer from distortion that badly at high volume (by high, you mean "somewhere near a concert" or "louder than ~95dB"?  If they start having problems around concert volume, that's fne)


I don't have those amps so I can't confirm, but I'm pretty certain you'll be a-ok paring them with the Lambda L300, as Lambdas are very efficient as far as electrostatic headphones go. That's why Lambdas are great starts, whereas Omega series (007, 009) can be problematic until you throw a lot of $$$$ hardware at em. And I just meant that you can't push it to crazy levels, well beyond 95dB, without losing a lot of sound quality, e.g. if you're really trying to drown out a loud ambient noise floor (don't do that anyways, very bad for ears lol).

Go for the 323. Dew eet


----------



## Whitigir

mulveling said:


> I don't have those amps so I can't confirm, but I'm pretty certain you'll be a-ok paring them with the Lambda L300, as Lambdas are very efficient as far as electrostatic headphones go. That's why Lambdas are great starts, whereas Omega series (007, 009) can be problematic until you throw a lot of $$$$ hardware at em. And I just meant that you can't push it to crazy levels, well beyond 95dB, without losing a lot of sound quality, e.g. if you're really trying to drown out a loud ambient noise floor (don't do that anyways, very bad for ears lol).
> 
> Go for the 323. Dew eet



While with dynamic and Plana, there are plethora of amplifiers aiming and claiming to be the best and confuse people, charging arms and legs, and lead people into a sink hole.  Stax, has only one, and that is Stax T2 or KG DIY T2.  Yes, it may be expensive, but it is the end of the end.  A straight shot, no confusions, proven performances


----------



## mulveling

Whitigir said:


> While with dynamic and Plana, there are plethora of amplifiers aiming and claiming to be the best and confuse people, charging arms and legs, and lead people into a sink hole.  Stax, has only one, and that is Stax T2 or KG DIY T2.  Yes, it may be expensive, but it is the end of the end.  A straight shot, no confusions, proven performances


Yes we are the resident broken records on this point  
T2 amp with 009 or 009S is the final light at the end of the very long and winding headphone upgrades tunnel.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

mulveling said:


> I don't have those amps so I can't confirm, but I'm pretty certain you'll be a-ok paring them with the Lambda L300, as Lambdas are very efficient as far as electrostatic headphones go. That's why Lambdas are great starts, whereas Omega series (007, 009) can be problematic until you throw a lot of $$$$ hardware at em. And I just meant that you can't push it to crazy levels, well beyond 95dB, without losing a lot of sound quality, e.g. if you're really trying to drown out a loud ambient noise floor (don't do that anyways, very bad for ears lol).
> 
> Go for the 323. Dew eet


Ah, sweet, makes sense   I listen below concert volume anyway, as I find the dynamic range of my ears cannot keep up with the dynamic range of headphones at high volume 

Says operation voltage is 100v....so safe to use with 110v?   It's either that or buy a Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 and a Parasound Z-amp V.3....which would be a bit cheaper, at $1100 for headphones+pads+amp+transformer.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

mulveling said:


> Yes we are the resident broken records on this point
> T2 amp with 009 or 009S is the final light at the end of the very long and winding headphone upgrades tunnel.



Know any devils I could sell my soul to?


----------



## mulveling

AthenaZephyrian said:


> Ah, sweet, makes sense   I listen below concert volume anyway, as I find the dynamic range of my ears cannot keep up with the dynamic range of headphones at high volume
> 
> Says operation voltage is 100v....so safe to use with 110v?   It's either that or buy a Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 and a Parasound Z-amp V.3....which would be a bit cheaper, at $1100 for headphones+pads+amp+transformer.


Ah, a Japanese voltage unit. I'm not sure whether these can be easily modded to 117V - one of the tech guys around here would know. If your wall were actually 110V, it would probably be OK. But I've seen 125V from my wall, which would make it too risky. That said, I've also seen 100V gear used around here, and it worked OK at the time - I would never try it though. You can also buy an affordable step-down transformer to take your wall AC down to a safe 100V - and a 323 probably doesn't draw enough power for this to limit its performance. 

The Mjolnir modified Stax transformer will be a much better option than the Woo, if you go that route.


----------



## mulveling

AthenaZephyrian said:


> Know any devils I could sell my soul to?


Corporate America - that's how I got mine


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

> Ah, a Japanese voltage unit. I'm not sure whether these can be easily modded to 117V - one of the tech guys around here would know. If your wall were actually 110V, it would probably be OK. But I've seen 125V from my wall, which would make it too risky. That said, I've also seen 100V gear used around here, and it worked OK at the time - I would never try it though. You can also buy an affordable step-down transformer to take your wall AC down to a safe 100V - and a 323 probably doesn't draw enough power for this to limit its performance.
> 
> The Mjolnir modified Stax transformer will be a much better option than the Woo, if you go that route.


Ok.  Welp, the 323 would run me $800, while the Mjolnir/Parasound would run me $585 with a Nobsound preamp for volume control (better than you'd expect in quality).  I'm probably gonna go with the Mjolnir+Parasound+Nobsound...I can easily recoup $300-350 of that by selling my extra DAC and 2 Cans...so net, I lose $780.  Thanks a million  



mulveling said:


> Corporate America - that's how I got mine


Working long hours on projects that you know aren't in anyone's best interests...not even the company's.   What great fun! Gonna end up there anyway...  Also, I'd have to quit school to do that


----------



## VRacer-111 (Aug 31, 2018)

Just a FYI, shipping from Iceland is not inexpensive...need to also factor in shipping/insurance cost from Mjolnir. The $670 Mjolnir SRD-7 ended up around $730 with shipping and insurance. I'd figure on expecting $45-$50+ for shipping a stock STAX SRD-7 from Iceland if that's the one you were thinking of...


----------



## AthenaZephyrian (Aug 31, 2018)

VRacer-111 said:


> Just a FYI, shipping from Iceland is not inexpensive...need to also factor in shipping/insurance cost from Mjolnir. The $670 Mjolnir SRD-7 ended up around $730 with shipping and insurance. I'd figure on expecting $45-$50+ for shipping a stock STAX SRD-7 from Iceland if that's the one you were thinking of...



OH NO NOT $50 MORE!!1!  but I have to feed the spiders that live in the corner of my room!

I did a calculation of just this a few minutes ago, and it'd still run me under $1200.  I guess it's probably worth the extra money, given that I'll definitely make the jump eventually...still makes me cringe quite hard at the price tag.

EDIT: someone pointed out that the SRM-T1 Mk2 is excellent if it's refurbished with new caps...and I can do that myself, which would be a bunch cheaper, and have a nicer form-factor.  It's properly settled, I think; a palatable price tag, and little compromise in terms of sound.


----------



## kevin gilmore

Do not run 100v units on USA voltage. It will blow up.


----------



## JimL11

AthenaZephyrian said:


> Ah, sweet, makes sense   I listen below concert volume anyway, as I find the dynamic range of my ears cannot keep up with the dynamic range of headphones at high volume
> 
> Says operation voltage is 100v....so safe to use with 110v?   It's either that or buy a Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 and a Parasound Z-amp V.3....which would be a bit cheaper, at $1100 for headphones+pads+amp+transformer.



Not a good idea to use equipment designed for 100v with 120VAC (US used to be 110 but really is at 120, sometimes more). The reason is that plugging a 100 VAC amp into 120VAC means that all internal voltages are 20% higher than they are designed for - increased stress resulting in decreased life at best and sparks and smoke at worst. The older Stax amps such as the T1 have an internal plug which can be switched to change voltages, however AFAIK the new Stax amps do not. If you are going to buy a new 100V Stax amp you also need to buy a step-down transformer to drop the voltage from 120V to 100V.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian (Aug 31, 2018)

JimL11 said:


> Not a good idea to use equipment designed for 100v with 120VAC (US used to be 110 but really is at 120, sometimes more). The reason is that plugging a 100 VAC amp into 120VAC means that all internal voltages are 20% higher than they are designed for - increased stress resulting in decreased life at best and sparks and smoke at worst. The older Stax amps such as the T1 have an internal plug which can be switched to change voltages, however AFAIK the new Stax amps do not. If you are going to buy a new 100V Stax amp you also need to buy a step-down transformer to drop the voltage from 120V to 100V.



Welp, I've just put out for an SRM-1 Mk2 and caps.  My mother spontaneously decided to pay $200 to help out, remembering when her parents helped her with large purchases in college.  So altogether, with pad mod, it'll cost me $850!   I'm a happy Head-Fi-er now.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Aug 31, 2018)

AthenaZephyrian said:


> Welp, I've just put out for an SRM-1 Mk2 and caps.  My mother spontaneously decided to pay $200 to help out, remembering when her parents helped her with large purchases in college.  So altogether, with pad mod, it'll cost me $850!   I'm a happy Head-Fi-er now.



It's the 'Professional' version with qty 1 PRO and qty 1 Normal bias sockets right?


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

VRacer-111 said:


> It's the 'Professional' version with qty 1 PRO and qty 1 Normal bias sockets right?



Yup


----------



## mulveling

AthenaZephyrian said:


> Welp, I've just put out for an SRM-1 Mk2 and caps.  My mother spontaneously decided to pay $200 to help out, remembering when her parents helped her with large purchases in college.  So altogether, with pad mod, it'll cost me $850!   I'm a happy Head-Fi-er now.


That was a great choice. You’re well on your way!


----------



## VRacer-111 (Aug 31, 2018)

I was either going to go with the SRM-1 Mk2 Professional or SRM-323S for my first driver, and ended up going with the SRM-323S because one was available locally at the time for a very good price. I have thought about trying out some vintage STAX eventually, and would need a Normal bias capable driver unit to do so...  or maybe that pristine example of a stock STAX SRD-7 Spritzer has (...if he keeps dropping the price...)


----------



## AthenaZephyrian (Aug 31, 2018)

Next up: a good multibit DAC....

Also, I shipped to the wrong address.  Contacted the sellers, hoping they'll get it in time.  Otherwise, I have the contact info of my home's new tennents, and live 15 minutes away, so it wouldn't be a huge deal...except for the fact that I'd get them A WHOLE DAY LATE! HOW AWFUL.  I should write an ode to my sweet yet diverted stax.... 

EDIT:  Aaaand the Stax vendor takes 5 days for handling.   It's gonna be 2 weeks before I get it ==__== the anticipation is gonna cause a coronary, cardiac arrest, and grey hair all at the same time.


----------



## rattler

Hello Everyone,

I am in the process of getting a KGSSHV for SR007A (SZ2 Series)... Please can you recommend a good DAC (220V version)...

Regards


----------



## wuwhere

rattler said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I am in the process of getting a KGSSHV for SR007A (SZ2 Series)... Please can you recommend a good DAC (220V version)...
> 
> Regards



What's your budget?


----------



## rattler

Around 1000 Dollars.. I can stretch a bit too


----------



## SeaWo|f

Which version of the KGSSHV might be worth while info. They can sound a bit different and thus pair better with perhaps sweeter or more neutral dacs depending.


----------



## Rhamnetin

rattler said:


> Around 1000 Dollars.. I can stretch a bit too



Can you audition DACs at your local hi-fi store? With that budget I'd try to get a used Chord 2Qute (or better yet Qutest if you find one in your price range). I would make sure not to get a laid back sounding DAC (recessed treble) with the SR-007.


----------



## rattler

SeaWo|f said:


> Which version of the KGSSHV might be worth while info. They can sound a bit different and thus pair better with perhaps sweeter or more neutral dacs depending.


KGSSHV Cube by Geoff Clarke..


----------



## rattler

Rhamnetin said:


> Can you audition DACs at your local hi-fi store? With that budget I'd try to get a used Chord 2Qute (or better yet Qutest if you find one in your price range). I would make sure not to get a laid back sounding DAC (recessed treble) with the SR-007.


Unfortunately, I wouldnt be able to audition any good DAC... But thanks for the suggestion... Would R2R dacs go well with SR 007A?


----------



## Rhamnetin

rattler said:


> Unfortunately, I wouldnt be able to audition any good DAC... But thanks for the suggestion... Would R2R dacs go well with SR 007A?



The two R2R DACs I've used (Holo Audio Spring DAC level 3 and Denafrips Venus) sound too laid back to me. It makes me wonder if R2R by nature is weak in treble, but I don't have enough experience to know for sure.


----------



## rattler

OK... So, in general, would Delta Sigma DACs be well suited to 007A?


----------



## Whitigir

Rhamnetin said:


> The two R2R DACs I've used (Holo Audio Spring DAC level 3 and Denafrips Venus) sound too laid back to me. It makes me wonder if R2R by nature is weak in treble, but I don't have enough experience to know for sure.



R2R is not weak in trebles.  It is just different.  I have both lks004 and R2R7 and they are very different.  I prefer r2R7 more, due to how natural and realistic the timbres and details are being presented, while 004 is excellent to pick the music a part as everything is more or less over-saturated, and that is the typical ofersampling of Delta sigma DAC


----------



## Rhamnetin

rattler said:


> OK... So, in general, would Delta Sigma DACs be well suited to 007A?



Too much of a general statement. I think a neutral, transparent DAC opposed to a laid back one is well suited to the SR-007A since it'd be easy to make it sound too laid back. I personally haven't been impressed by standard chip based DACs either, only Chord has done it for me but opinions here will vary wildly. 

Would be really cool if someone did a huge DAC comparison between all the major players. Due to DACs being rather hard to audition, with many interesting high end models being boutique and not having many retailers, people usually don't try more than a few different brands of very high end DACs.



Whitigir said:


> R2R is not weak in trebles.  It is just different.  I have both lks004 and R2R7 and they are very different.  I prefer r2R7 more, due to how natural and realistic the timbres and details are being presented, while 004 is excellent to pick the music a part as everything is more or less over-saturated, and that is the typical ofersampling of Delta sigma DAC



By weak, I really only meant lower (weaker) response in the higher frequencies. Which would be to a lot of peoples' liking.


----------



## rattler

Thanks much! Sorry for the generalization


----------



## mulveling

Yeah the lines get blurred easily with DACs. I have an ECP Audio DAC with a Delta-Sigma Wolfson chip that sounds warmer and more analog (also a little less detailed) than the R2R Yggdrasil (1st version). The excellent transformer-coupled output stage of the ECP is possibly where it gets this advantage. I am so happy with vinyl & Stax, though - else I would probably have to buy a very expensive DAC to fully satisfy


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

I bet you guys really hate Z-Review's "DACs above $200 aren't really much better at all" rant...  I've certainly found that, in that range, crap has massive variations...but I've never had the money to spend on a really good one, because I'd rather get headphones that hit the point of similarly diminishing returns.  I think I've finally done that...so now it's time to roll DACs


----------



## Whitigir

AthenaZephyrian said:


> I bet you guys really hate Z-Review's "*DACs above $200 aren't really much better at all*" rant...  I've certainly found that, in that range, **** has massive variations...but I've never had the money to spend on a really good one, because I'd rather get headphones that hit the point of similarly diminishing returns.  I think I've finally done that...so now it's time to roll DACs



People who believes, or states such statement, has no clues, and has never experienced high-fidelity sound performances.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Whitigir said:


> People who believes, or states such statement, has no clues, and has never experienced high-fidelity sound performances.



I think our friend Zeos just can't hear particularly well from how loudly he listens to his Stax/HE6's/HD800s' lol


----------



## Rhamnetin

AthenaZephyrian said:


> I bet you guys really hate Z-Review's "DACs above $200 aren't really much better at all" rant...  I've certainly found that, in that range, **** has massive variations...but I've never had the money to spend on a really good one, because I'd rather get headphones that hit the point of similarly diminishing returns.  I think I've finally done that...so now it's time to roll DACs



Me to zeos


----------



## Whitigir

AthenaZephyrian said:


> I think our friend Zeos just can't hear particularly well from how loudly he listens to his Stax/HE6's/HD800s' lol


In Asia, people has a favorite term for this “wooden ears” or “Ox-ears”.

Simply because neither the wood nor the Ox will care or know what the hell is music anyways ...though, I am not sure if dog or cat can actually hear and enjoy music LOL


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Whitigir said:


> In Asia, people has a favorite term for this “wooden ears” or “Ox-ears”.
> 
> Simply because neither the wood nor the Ox will care or know what the hell is music anyways ...though, I am not sure if dog or cat can actually hear and enjoy music LOL



I love that.  Imma use that for my sister.  I offered to buy her a pair of M50X's or decent IEMs if she'd just stop blasting music on Amazon Alexa...she refused.  She also refused, for years on end, to try my headphones, and only uses Beats and apple earbuds.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Sep 1, 2018)

AthenaZephyrian said:


> I bet you guys really hate Z-Review's "DACs above $200 aren't really much better at all" rant...  I've certainly found that, in that range, **** has massive variations...but I've never had the money to spend on a really good one, because I'd rather get headphones that hit the point of similarly diminishing returns.  I think I've finally done that...so now it's time to roll DACs



I'm not too hard on Z like many here, but absolutely disagree with his view on DACs. Every DAC I have had brings something different, no matter the cost. From Schiit Bifrost, to Audioquest Dragonfly Red, to JDS Labs EL DAC,  to Gustard X20U, to RME ADI-2 DAC, and to the Shanling M0 DAP - they are all different sounding when it come to the details of their presentation.

While differences may not be huge, they are there and the Bifrost is by far the least favorite I've heard in my setups... too harsh and sterile sounding. The JDS EL DAC has the worst USB implementation I've heard from a DAC,  but the Coaxial SPDIF is REALLY good - on par with the Gustard X20U at least. The Shanling M0 and Gustard X20U are my overall favorites for my dynamic setup with my modded Gustard H10 amp - they have excellent clarity and detail with nice body and low end presentation. The RME ADI-2 works great for my STAX L300 Limited setup with really precise detail and clarity and extremely punchy lowend, though I do slightly prefer the Gustard X20U for its smoother and more fuller presentation with the STAX.

Though I may slightly prefer the smoothness and fullness from Gustard X20U, the RME ADI-2 has a cleaner, clearer sound with more punchy lowend and crazy amount of features that line up well for pairing with my STAX setup - especially since I'm using the very nice NAD C275BEE stereo amp. The most important features for me being: extremely clean and black noise floor from USB, fully customizeable 5-channel EQ (ability to EQ L and R channels separately as well), Bass and treble adjustment (further 2 channels of fully customizeable EQ), balance adjustment, adjustable crossfeed setting, and ability to know what exact signal type, bit rate, and frequency you are receiving from your sources. Plus also has dedicated headphone and IEM jacks and nice graphic analyzer to make it a fully rounded out unit.

Also perfect size match for stacking with the Mjolnir SRD-7:


----------



## weasel1979 (Sep 1, 2018)

Compared to headphones first and then amps, I don't hear much of difference between DACs. Also, it kind of proofs to others that your hearing is very good, when you talk about HUGE differences between DACs, so maybe some of these differences are a little bit exaggerated? Just maybe, really. To me, the following things are more important soundqualitywise than the DAC:

1. the headphone (the better the better)
2. the amp (same)
3. the recording, mixing and mastering quality of the song
4. your own mood / form / daytime
5. Dac (?)

So before spending 4000 Dollars on a DAc, I would always upgrade 1 and 2 first. Everything I said was just My opinion.


----------



## mulveling (Sep 1, 2018)

Yes @weasel1979 (that your birth year? mine too!) I totally agree - the sounds of various DACs seems to run much MUCH closer together than when comparing electrostatic amps and headphones. I should've qualified my earlier DAC opinions by noting that I find the differences fairly subtle. Exacerbating the problem is that often digital master of albums are of very poor quality, and there's only so much you can do with that. But then I'm a hardcore vinyl junkie, so you have to discount my opinions appropriately on this. In vinyl, things like changing cartridges definitely makes a BIG difference.

Yeah I don't like the Z-reviews guy, but not for that particular opinion


----------



## Rhamnetin

DACs don't make nearly as big a difference with non-electrostatic systems, but once you get to KGSSHV Carbon/BHSE tier amps and SR-009 tier headphones, DAC can make or break the system. For reference, switching between a Chord Hugo 2 and Denafrips Venus DAC changes the sound far more than going between a KGSSHV Carbon amp and a BHSE.

Chord Mojo vs Chord Hugo 2 wasn't too big of a difference with my previous Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar + Audeze LCD-4 or LFF Code-6 setup. I could easily live with a Mojo on that. But the Mojo destroys my current Stax system, makes it sound awful.


----------



## mulveling (Sep 1, 2018)

And that's true too - Stax systems can become so resolving that even subtle changes are pushed more into the limelight. Glad I'm no longer messing with DACs, either way. You'll also notice more differences on high-end speaker setups, because the ability to render a large 3D sound-field becomes crucial there, and usually only high end sources are really good at that.


----------



## weasel1979

Rhamnetin said:


> DACs don't make nearly as big a difference with non-electrostatic systems, but once you get to KGSSHV Carbon/BHSE tier amps and SR-009 tier headphones, DAC can make or break the system. For reference, switching between a Chord Hugo 2 and Denafrips Venus DAC changes the sound far more than going between a KGSSHV Carbon amp and a BHSE.
> 
> Chord Mojo vs Chord Hugo 2 wasn't too big of a difference with my previous Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar + Audeze LCD-4 or LFF Code-6 setup. I could easily live with a Mojo on that. But the Mojo destroys my current Stax system, makes it sound awful.



So when you listen to vinyl or a CD, your system sounds awful?


----------



## Rhamnetin

weasel1979 said:


> So when you listen to vinyl or a CD, your system sounds awful?



No idea. I only use digital systems. I'm curious about it, but my music selection leaves me with digital as my only choice.


----------



## weasel1979

The way you describe your system, it seems that it can provide much better sound quality than a middle tier DAC (=CD quality) ever could, so I conclude that a CD would make your system sound awful, just as a Chord Mojo would, as you said.


----------



## HoloSpice

AthenaZephyrian said:


> I think our friend Zeos just can't hear particularly well from how loudly he listens to his Stax/HE6's/HD800s' lol


I think he needs a better amp and dac.


----------



## weasel1979

Whitigir said:


> People who believes, or states such statement, has no clues, and has never experienced high-fidelity sound performances.



Oh give me a break


----------



## SeaWo|f

I'm pretty hard on z reviews because while I don't care about crazy subjective opinions, they are just that opinions. He gets objective facts very wrong then passes judgement on things because of it.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Or one of the Teac DACS


weasel1979 said:


> Compared to headphones first and then amps, I don't hear much of difference between DACs. Also, it kind of proofs to others that your hearing is very good, when you talk about HUGE differences between DACs, so maybe some of these differences are a little bit exaggerated? Just maybe, really. To me, the following things are more important soundqualitywise than the DAC:
> 
> 1. the headphone (the better the better)
> 2. the amp (same)
> ...



I've only dealt with four DACs.  1) SMSL M3 (been too long to characterize) 2)SMSL M6 (clean, clear, pretty detailed, tied for best I've heard) 3)HRT MS II (grainy, textured, warm--fairly different than SMSL M6) FiiO X3II line-out (very, very transparent, detailed, but slow transient response). 

I agree that cans, mastering, and amps make more of a difference.  It was a bit exaggerated, but compare to codec/bitrate/op-amp, the differences are a fair bit more notable.

I've just upgraded 1&2...which is why I'm now examining DACs.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

mulveling said:


> Yes @weasel1979 (that your birth year? mine too!) I totally agree - the sounds of various DACs seems to run much MUCH closer together than when comparing electrostatic amps and headphones. I should've qualified my earlier DAC opinions by noting that I find the differences fairly subtle. Exacerbating the problem is that often digital master of albums are of very poor quality, and there's only so much you can do with that. But then I'm a hardcore vinyl junkie, so you have to discount my opinions appropriately on this. In vinyl, things like changing cartridges definitely makes a BIG difference.
> 
> Yeah I don't like the Z-reviews guy, but not for that particular opinion



I've only listened to a single vinyl album...it sounded a fair bit worse, and a spectrogram showed visible distortion.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

SeaWo|f said:


> I'm pretty hard on z reviews because while I don't care about crazy subjective opinions, they are just that opinions. He gets objective facts very wrong then passes judgement on things because of it.



"Tubes just **** up the sound, and you need to have an SS amp before you can have a tube amp"

That's just uh....like, your opinion, man.  SS can and will **** things up more... it just depends on the particular unit.  Yes, they add some harmonics, and yes, SS is _capable_ of better fidelity, but there are some awful SS amps out there.


----------



## QueueCumber (Sep 1, 2018)

Anytime I think I’ve heard a difference between two well-engineered DACs, when I switch back and forth, I then notice the same thing I thought I noticed on one DAC that was different on the other one... lol

That goes for well-engineered solid state amps as well.

So, I focus mostly on the transducers now, and buy other gear based on engineering, utility, and aesthetics. If the consensus is it’s a great piece, chances are better it won’t lose as much value down the road.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Rhamnetin said:


> DACs don't make nearly as big a difference with non-electrostatic systems, but once you get to KGSSHV Carbon/BHSE tier amps and SR-009 tier headphones, DAC can make or break the system. For reference, switching between a Chord Hugo 2 and Denafrips Venus DAC changes the sound far more than going between a KGSSHV Carbon amp and a BHSE.
> 
> Chord Mojo vs Chord Hugo 2 wasn't too big of a difference with my previous Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar + Audeze LCD-4 or LFF Code-6 setup. I could easily live with a Mojo on that. But the Mojo destroys my current Stax system, makes it sound awful.



You think I'll need to upgrade to get the proper Stax experience, or can I hold off a bit till I have more to spend?


----------



## Rhamnetin

weasel1979 said:


> The way you describe your system, it seems that it can provide much better sound quality than a middle tier DAC (=CD quality) ever could, so I conclude that a CD would make your system sound awful, just as a Chord Mojo would, as you said.



Makes sense about CD quality, so you are probably right about that.



AthenaZephyrian said:


> You think I'll need to upgrade to get the proper Stax experience, or can I hold off a bit till I have more to spend?



I think it largely depends on what you're used to listening to. Back when I was using the AKG K7xx and Beyerdynamic DT 880, the little electret Stax SR-30 sounded noticeably more transparent than those (but not a huge difference and its drawbacks made it worse). I have no idea how a Stax Lambda sounds, but I was very pleased with my SR-007 + KGSS + Chord Mojo setup when I had it. But that was before I was accustomed to my current system.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Rhamnetin said:


> Makes sense about CD quality, so you are probably right about that.
> 
> 
> 
> I think it largely depends on what you're used to listening to. Back when I was using the AKG K7xx and Beyerdynamic DT 880, the little electret Stax SR-30 sounded noticeably more transparent than those (but not a huge difference and its drawbacks made it worse). I have no idea how a Stax Lambda sounds, but I was very pleased with my SR-007 + KGSS + Chord Mojo setup when I had it. But that was before I was accustomed to my current system.



Ok, so I'll probably be ok with what I have until I have time to sell my 2 ipod nanos and a few cans to finance a $300-600 DAC.  Awesome


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Someone should make a stax energizer/DAC dongle for the new iphones.


----------



## mulveling

AthenaZephyrian said:


> Someone should make a stax energizer/DAC dongle for the new iphones.


iShock


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

mulveling said:


> iShock



iShorthighvoltagecapacitorsacrossmyheartaccidentally

iLawsuit


----------



## Rhamnetin

iPhone camera adapter + USB cable + *SRM-D10*?

In other news, I am borrowing Kimber Kable Hero AG interconnects and I really like them in my system. My new favorite so far. I'm surprised the tonality isn't more different than the original Hero, considering the change from copper to silver. 

I would not say the improvement is 1:1 with the price difference or even close, but it is nice to hear some slight improvements in transparency and imaging and bass resolution and heft. Going to try the Kimber KCTG and AudioQuest Wind next. Despite owning an SR-009, I am no longer afraid of silver.


----------



## xevman

Got it. Cheers.


----------



## wuwhere

I really like Duelund DCA16GA XLR IC. Not expensive at all. You can search it.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Rhamnetin said:


> iPhone camera adapter + USB cable + *SRM-D10*?
> 
> In other news, I am borrowing Kimber Kable Hero AG interconnects and I really like them in my system. My new favorite so far. I'm surprised the tonality isn't more different than the original Hero, considering the change from copper to silver.
> 
> I would not say the improvement is 1:1 with the price difference or even close, but it is nice to hear some slight improvements in transparency and imaging and bass resolution and heft. Going to try the Kimber KCTG and AudioQuest Wind next. Despite owning an SR-009, I am no longer afraid of silver.



Now I wanna try that just for kicks...the idea of walking around campus with stax is 1) terrifying from a monetary liability standpoint and 2) absolutely hilarious.  I wonder hom much they'd throw stones and tomatoes at me?  They look soooo old.  I like the look...but most beats-lovers...probably don't.

I'm honestly not surprised they make a difference with an audio path as high quality as the one you're working with.  I used some silver cabled with my LZ-A4's.  Maybe there was a difference, but it was small enough that it may have been placebo.  Unfortunately, the cable broke when I used it as a dog leash to get someone's dog out of a friend's car at a bar...someone had just pulled a knife, and we were trying to get away before fights broke out, so the cable was the least of my worries.


----------



## wuwhere

I'm listening to both 007Mk1 and HE-6, same source and preamp, just different amps, obviously. They sound close. Perhaps the HE-6 has a closer sound, like first row vs. third row.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

wuwhere said:


> I'm listening to both 007Mk1 and HE-6, same source and preamp, just different amps, obviously. They sound close. Perhaps the HE-6 has a closer sound, like first row vs. third row.



So HE6 has a smaller soundstage?  or does it have to do with mid-range volume?


----------



## wuwhere

AthenaZephyrian said:


> So HE6 has a smaller soundstage?  or does it have to do with mid-range volume?



Because it is closer it sounds smaller. Depending on the type of music its better, like vocals. Its midrange has more energy than the 007. It makes the 007 sound laid back. I like both.


----------



## powertoold (Sep 1, 2018)

For me, a lot of DACs sound similar.

For Stax headphones though, the amps make a big difference, especially when listening loud.

With summit-fi sound, even minor improvements make a huge difference for enjoyment. A "perfect" sound is 2-3x better than a 99% perfect sound, because the smallest imperfection prevents full musical absorption.

I think this is why we have so many people who don't believe xyz when it comes to summit-fi.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian (Sep 1, 2018)

powertoold said:


> For me, a lot of DACs sound similar.
> 
> For Stax headphones though, the amps make a big difference, especially when listening loud.
> 
> ...



Yeah, that's the sense I'm getting.  Some people say op-amp tweaks do nothing...but the changes are pretty big, IMO.  So's 254kbps/FLAC.  Not necessarily super evident...but you know after a bit that something's off with a bad op-amp or a 254 kbps file.  Heck, even 16-bit 44100hz vs 32-bit 192000hz.  Not "wow, this is as audible as beas vs k7xxx", but "yeah that sounds...more realistic, but I'm not sire how".


----------



## Whitigir

Why would you be afraid of silver ? 009 just makes it sound good if the good details are there, and reveal bad record if it really is there.  Silver is everywhere in my system


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Whitigir said:


> Why would you be afraid of silver ? 009 just makes it sound good if the good details are there, and reveal bad record if it really is there.  Silver is everywhere in my system



So it makes a difference in high-end stuff?  I'm considering getting silver interconnects for my Stax.


----------



## mulveling

I like silver everywhere too. Not a bad thing with Stax. Whitigir, you have a special T2 with sold-core silver wire inside too, right? I just use solid-core silver interconnects wherever possible.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

mulveling said:


> I like silver everywhere too. Not a bad thing with Stax. Whitigir, you have a special T2 with sold-core silver wire inside too, right? I just use solid-core silver interconnects wherever possible.



Would it be worth replacing all internal wiring--and possibly solder--in the analog audio path with silver?


----------



## Whitigir

mulveling said:


> I like silver everywhere too. Not a bad thing with Stax. Whitigir, you have a special T2 with sold-core silver wire inside too, right? I just use solid-core silver interconnects wherever possible.





AthenaZephyrian said:


> Would it be worth replacing all internal wiring--and possibly solder--in the analog audio path with silver?


Yes, not only internal wires, but solder is also high silver content and power cables.  Even input jacks were specifically Silverplated  . Usually I replace stock OFC wires in the devices with silver and silver solder where possible, and it never disappoints


----------



## AthenaZephyrian (Sep 2, 2018)

I just ran across a thread detailing some ABX testing results...like...from 50 different ABX tests.  The results were not too stomachable.  On the other hand, it does mean that I won't have to bother _too much_ with extra money spent on DACs and interconnects (except when changing DAC/amp topology and with tubes--which are a lot more...messy).  There's still some evidence that really poor design is audible.

Of course, that doesn't mean I'm right, or they are.  It just means _my _wallet will stay a bit more padded.  Which I'm happy with.  It also means I can focus on building awesome chassis for stuff, instead of buying $1000+ gear to get similarly awesome looks.  And building stuff is satisfying as heck.  I'm also still gonna make a few circuit mods to my little dot...I know for a fact that it has a notable flaw in its construction that ****s with transient response.

Amps are a bit of a fuzzy matter, as there's also a reasonable of ABX testing affirming audible differences...and my own personal experience with tubes, op-amps, SS v SS, and SS v tube.  Plus I found a thread showing computer analysis of impedance, FR etc. with different amp/can combos that show very clearly audible differences.  So I may upgrade amps--and certainly will impedance match.


----------



## weasel1979 (Sep 2, 2018)

Upgrade your headphone and amp first (and I mean upgrade to the top) before upgrading your DAC or cables. After that, AB blind test cables and DACs, do not trust your judgement (this is key). AB test blindly with the help of a friend. After that, you are on top.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

weasel1979 said:


> Upgrade your headphone and amp first (and I mean upgrade to the top) before upgrading your DAC or cables. After that, AB blind test cables and DACs, do not trust your judgement (this is key). AB test blindly with the help of a friend. After that, you are on top.



Seems like an excellent strategy!


----------



## Hubert481

Did some testing with L700, 009 and 009s a few days ago
Of course, there is a sound difference, but i cannot say, which is better or more true/live for me - just different.
Some differences can be changed with PEQ of rme adi2pro.
So i did not change and i am still using L700 with T1
The specific staxflair is already in the L700 for me.


----------



## Rhamnetin

AthenaZephyrian said:


> Would it be worth replacing all internal wiring--and possibly solder--in the analog audio path with silver?



Good internal wire will make a difference, but going from good to the best? Only the DIYers who have done such experiments can answer, like KG and Birgir.

Quality silver wire is one of the differences between the Mjolnir Audio Carbon and Carbon CC, but there are other differences too (power supply, volume control). I wonder if anyone else has A/B tested them.


----------



## BenF

In Octave III's description at https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/ it says "_It can also be used single ended with either XLR to RCA adapters or a special cable_". 
It doesn't say anything like this for other amps. It this a special feature of Octave III? Or all electrostatic amps can be used with simple XLR to RCA adapters?

I'm also a bit confused about the "single-ended" part. Doesn't each RCA plug have it's own ground? 
Wouldn't using this adapter https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Que...to-2RCA-lotus-plug-headphone/32890230637.html preserve the balanced nature of the signal from an AK player?


----------



## JimL11

BenF said:


> In Octave III's description at https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/ it says "_It can also be used single ended with either XLR to RCA adapters or a special cable_".
> It doesn't say anything like this for other amps. It this a special feature of Octave III? Or all electrostatic amps can be used with simple XLR to RCA adapters?
> 
> I'm also a bit confused about the "single-ended" part. Doesn't each RCA plug have it's own ground?
> Wouldn't using this adapter https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Que...to-2RCA-lotus-plug-headphone/32890230637.html preserve the balanced nature of the signal from an AK player?



Most electrostatic headphone amp circuits are inherently balanced, using differential amp stages, so they automatically convert a single ended input to a balanced output. With XLR inputs, you can use single ended inputs by connecting the negative XLR input to ground. There are a few electrostatic amps, such as Andrea Ciuffoli or Frank Cooter's DIY amps, that use single-ended circuitry and convert it to balanced at the output using transformers.


----------



## BenF

JimL11 said:


> Most electrostatic headphone amp circuits are inherently balanced, using differential amp stages, so they automatically convert a single ended input to a balanced output. With XLR inputs, you can use single ended inputs by connecting the negative XLR input to ground. There are a few electrostatic amps, such as Andrea Ciuffoli or Frank Cooter's DIY amps, that use single-ended circuitry and convert it to balanced at the output using transformers.


What about this cable: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Que...to-2RCA-lotus-plug-headphone/32890230637.html
Will it result in truly balanced input into an electrostatic amp? Two RCA cables do account for all R-, R+, L- and L+ that come out of AK.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian (Sep 3, 2018)

BenF said:


> In Octave III's description at https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/ it says "_It can also be used single ended with either XLR to RCA adapters or a special cable_".
> It doesn't say anything like this for other amps. It this a special feature of Octave III? Or all electrostatic amps can be used with simple XLR to RCA adapters?
> 
> I'm also a bit confused about the "single-ended" part. Doesn't each RCA plug have it's own ground?
> Wouldn't using this adapter https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Que...to-2RCA-lotus-plug-headphone/32890230637.html preserve the balanced nature of the signal from an AK player?



A lot of energizers actually won't do balanced input (not saying they aren't balanced, see above) without modification.


----------



## BenF

AthenaZephyrian said:


> A lot of energizers actually won't do balanced input (not saying they aren't balanced, see above) without modification.


My question is about proper amplifiers - are all Stax/Mjolnir amplifiers balanced?


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

BenF said:


> My question is about proper amplifiers - are all Stax/Mjolnir amplifiers balanced?



Do you mean amplifiers for dynamic/planar, or amplifiers (also called energizers...because reasons) for electrostats?  

Well, the SRM-353X (by all accounts, one of the best options out there for Stax energizers) is balanced.  The T1S is balanced.  _Some _mjolnir products are balanced.  Just look at the back of it.  It'll be pretty obvious if it's balanced.  Tell me which rig you're examining, and I can do it for you.


----------



## BenF

AthenaZephyrian said:


> Do you mean amplifiers for dynamic/planar, or amplifiers (also called energizers...because reasons) for electrostats?
> 
> Well, the SRM-353X (by all accounts, one of the best options out there for Stax energizers) is balanced.  The T1S is balanced.  _Some _mjolnir products are balanced.  Just look at the back of it.  It'll be pretty obvious if it's balanced.  Tell me which rig you're examining, and I can do it for you.


I mean electrostatic amplifiers (fed from DAC), not energizers (fed by a speaker amp).
Are all electrostatic amplifiers balanced, including low end ones - SRM-252s, SRM-253s, M10?

Obviously, the ones with XLR inputs are balanced, but what about the ones with RCA inputs?
Will using this cable: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Que...to-2RCA-lotus-plug-headphone/32890230637.html  result in a truly balanced input into an electrostatic amp? Two RCA cables do account for all R-, R+, L- and L+ that come out of AK.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

BenF said:


> I mean electrostatic amplifiers (fed from DAC), not energizers (fed by a speaker amp).
> Are all electrostatic amplifiers balanced, including low end ones - SRM-252s, SRM-253s, M10?
> 
> Obviously, the ones with XLR inputs are balanced, but what about the ones with RCA inputs?
> Will using this cable: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Que...to-2RCA-lotus-plug-headphone/32890230637.html  result in a truly balanced input into an electrostatic amp? Two RCA cables do account for all R-, R+, L- and L+ that come out of AK.



*LMGTFY.  *If that's too complicated, go to images, and look for XLR ports.  You'll see there aren't any XLR inputs on SRM-252s's.  http://lmgtfy.com/?q=srm-252+balanced

Additionally,
"From what I understand the 353X is the 323S with a balanced input terminal which is likely not any better given that the 323S will convert any SE into balanced signal anyway."--some headfier (@purk).

They convert to a balanced output.  It really doesn't matter much--not as much as on normal amps--as long as you are capable of supply RCA input.


----------



## BenF (Sep 3, 2018)

AthenaZephyrian said:


> *LMGTFY.  *If that's too complicated, go to images, and look for XLR ports.  You'll see there aren't any XLR inputs on SRM-252s's.
> 
> Additionally,
> "From what I understand the 353X is the 323S with a balanced input terminal which is likely not any better given that the 323S will convert any SE into balanced signal anyway."--some headfier (@purk).
> ...


That Google search doesn't answer any of my questions. All the results on the first page either don't even mention SRM-252s and "balanced" in the same post, or they talk about "balanced" as in "balanced frequency response".
And I already wrote myself that the ones with XLR inputs are clearly balanced.

I have asked two very simple questions, both are "yes/no" type of questions:
1) Are all electrostatic amplifiers (not energizers) balanced, including low end ones - SRM-252s, SRM-253s, M10?
2) Will using this cable: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Que...to-2RCA-lotus-plug-headphone/32890230637.html  result in a truly balanced input into an electrostatic amp? Two RCA cables do account for all R-, R+, L- and L+ that come out of AK.

Does anyone know the answers?


----------



## raband (Sep 3, 2018)

RCA won't be balanced.

Doesn't matter what the amp/energiser does internally - the upstream won't be balanced.

"Two RCA cables do account for all R-, R+, L- and L+ that come out of AK."

They don't have a separate ground wire


----------



## AthenaZephyrian (Sep 3, 2018)

BenF said:


> That Google search doesn't answer any of my questions. All the results on the first page either don't even mention SRM-252s and "balanced" in the same post, or they talk about "balanced" as in "balanced frequency response".
> And I already wrote myself that the ones with XLR inputs are clearly balanced.
> 
> I have asked two very simple questions, both are "yes/no" type of questions:
> ...



That's my point.  Inductive reasoning.  If you google any of the balanced versions, you get hits for balanced inputs.  You don't get them for SRM-252s.  You also won't notice XLR ports on the back of the 252s....so, since you know this denotes balanced input....it's almost certainly not balanced.

So for
1) NO.  They aren't _all_ balanced.
2) No.  It won't.

The answers were there.  Sometimes you need to read with inductive reasoning, rather than inflexible algorithmic logic.


----------



## JimL11

BenF said:


> My question is about proper amplifiers - are all Stax/Mjolnir amplifiers balanced?



Yes, all Stax amplifiers since the T1S, and all Mjolnir amplifiers, are balanced.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

JimL11 said:


> Yes, all Stax amplifiers since the T1S, and all Mjolnir amplifiers, are balanced.



Though, if I'm not an idiot (I may be), don't some lack balanced inputs (though supplying balanced out)?


----------



## JimL11

AthenaZephyrian said:


> Though, if I'm not an idiot (I may be), don't some lack balanced inputs (though supplying balanced out)?



All of the Stax amps from the T1 onwards are balanced internally. All of the Stax amps with XLR inputs are balanced input to output. All the Mjolnir amps (which are designed by Kevin Gilmore) are balanced internally, and if they have XLR inputs, are balanced input to output.


----------



## JimL11

BenF said:


> What about this cable: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Que...to-2RCA-lotus-plug-headphone/32890230637.html
> Will it result in truly balanced input into an electrostatic amp? Two RCA cables do account for all R-, R+, L- and L+ that come out of AK.



This cable is probably single-ended, since it uses RCA plugs which are not balanced. Generally speaking in order to have a balanced input you need to have XLR plugs.


----------



## JimL11 (Sep 3, 2018)

BenF said:


> I have asked two very simple questions, both are "yes/no" type of questions:
> 1) Are all electrostatic amplifiers (not energizers) balanced, including low end ones - SRM-252s, SRM-253s, M10?
> 2) Will using this cable: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Que...to-2RCA-lotus-plug-headphone/32890230637.html  result in a truly balanced input into an electrostatic amp? Two RCA cables do account for all R-, R+, L- and L+ that come out of AK.
> 
> Does anyone know the answers?



1) As previously stated, all the modern Stax amps have balanced circuitry. If they have XLR inputs then they accept balanced inputs, if they only have RCA inputs they do NOT accept balanced inputs - in that case the negative input to the circuit is grounded. Based on Kevin Gilmore's reverse engineered circuit diagram, the M10 has a single ended input but balanced output. Incidentally, the M10 appears to be a variation on the circuit of the Stax SRM-1 circa 1979 with a FET output in place of the original bipolar output, which is not necessarily a better solution, as FETs have a significantly higher input capacitance which makes them harder to drive. I think it is safe to say that technology has advanced in the nearly 40 years since 1979.

The M20 is based on an even older single-ended Stax circuit - the DIY A circuit which was published by Stax in about 1968.

2) no, that cable does not supply a balanced input as the RCA barrel is ground. Even if the cable were balanced (i.e. the barrel was not tied to ground), the RCA input socket barrel is grounded so the result is that the negative input goes to ground.


----------



## BenF

JimL11 said:


> Yes, all Stax amplifiers since the T1S, and all Mjolnir amplifiers, are balanced.


Does that include SRM-252S?



JimL11 said:


> This cable is probably single-ended, since it uses RCA plugs which are not balanced. Generally speaking in order to have a balanced input you need to have XLR plugs.


The AK-compatible 2.5mm cable have this pinout:




The cable I linked takes R- and R+ to one RCA plug, and L- and L+ to the other RCA plug - so each side has it's own ground. Doesn't it make it balanced? If having separate ground for each side isn't enough for balanced connection, then wouldn't it make AK and other that use this 2.5mm plug a bunch of liars?


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

BenF said:


> Does that include SRM-252S?
> 
> 
> The AK-compatible 2.5mm cable have this pinout:
> ...



*sigh* yes, the SRM 252s is balanced output (internally balanced).  It isn't, however balanced input.  I can retype it in bold, all caps, and red if you want.

Is this some kind of joke?  Because it really isn't funny.


----------



## BenF (Sep 3, 2018)

AthenaZephyrian said:


> *sigh* yes, the SRM 252s is balanced output (internally balanced).  It isn't, however balanced input.  I can retype it in bold, all caps, and red if you want.
> 
> Is this some kind of joke?  Because it really isn't funny.


You can sigh all you want, but this "joke" will continue until you'll understand that you are answering the wrong question.
I am asking about the input (connection from a balanced DAC/player to an amplifier), not an output - did you look at the cable I linked? That cable take 4 signals from a balanced DAC and turns them into 4 signals on RCA - that does look balanced.
I don't need your passive-aggressive responses to know that Pro Bias is balanced:


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Actually... it is certainly different than a normal 3.5-RCA...that's for sure.  But it's not balanced in the electrical sense--they are marketing it as something ever-so-slightly different in terminology, and worlds different in function.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/ele...ic-production/532081-balanced-rca-cables.html


----------



## raband

BenF said:


> That cable take 4 signals from a balanced DAC and turns them into 4 signals on RCA - that does look balanced.



Still missing the ground wire.
Need the +'s, the -'s and the ground wire(s).


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Yep, @BenF , the key difference is that balanced cables have a 5th contact, the ground contact, which helps--when connected to a compatible circuit--filter bilateral noise.


----------



## mulveling

Stax takes whatever signal you have, and makes the best of it! If your source sucks, then Houston you have a problem. I feed single-ended phono stage outputs all day into various Stax amps with Neutrik RCA-to-XLR adapters, and it sounds amazing.


----------



## Rhamnetin

mulveling said:


> Stax takes whatever signal you have, and makes the best of it! If your source sucks, then Houston you have a problem. I feed single-ended phono stage outputs all day into various Stax amps with Neutrik RCA-to-XLR adapters, and it sounds amazing.



At the end of the day, I agree that this is what it boils down to. My favorite DACs are all single ended. Even when I get the Chord Hugo TT 2, I will not be using its balanced XLR outputs since Rob Watts says the RCA will be technically more transparent as it has a cleaner signal path. Granted I'll test both with equivalent interconnects just for kicks.


----------



## raband

Also worth keeping in mind that balanced XLR output is usually double? RCA output (correct me if I'm wrong) (4v vs 2v?)

Any chance of overpowering (or even damaging) the amp feeding that into the RCA's?


----------



## BenF

raband said:


> Still missing the ground wire.
> Need the +'s, the -'s and the ground wire(s).


If I take a balanced headphone with this 2.5mm connector and plug it into an Astell & Kern player, it will get the benefit of balanced signal - couple more dBs of S/N and lower cross-talk.
"L-" and "R-" are the grounds for each channel - so why do I need an additional (3rd? 4th?) ground when connecting the A&K to an amp?


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

raband said:


> Also worth keeping in mind that balanced XLR output is usually double? RCA output (correct me if I'm wrong) (4v vs 2v?)
> 
> Any chance of overpowering (or even damaging) the amp feeding that into the RCA's?


It's well known that people perceive higher volume as higher quality  Slick strategy.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

BenF said:


> If I take a balanced headphone with this 2.5mm connector and plug it into an Astell & Kern player, it will get the benefit of balanced signal - couple more dBs of S/N and lower cross-talk.
> "L-" and "R-" are the grounds for each channel - so why do I need an additional (3rd? 4th?) ground when connecting the A&K to an amp?



No, the negative leads are negative leads.  You normally have 1 channel for each side, and a ground--on a 3.5mm.  RCA cables port a shared ground to each side, and a distinct hot wire to the left and right.  Balanced cables use a distinct hot negative and positive lead for each side, and a ground wire.  It's vital that it have the ground to be balanced, as the processing side checks the noise ground against hot lead outputs to find and eliminate noise.  

If this is not sufficient, know that you will not find an answer you are happy with.  You will only find the answer that you cannot have a balanced anything with an RCA plug on the end, because it's _impossible, by the definition of "balanced"_.


----------



## raband

BenF said:


> "L-" and "R-" are the grounds for each channel - so why do I need an additional (3rd? 4th?) ground when connecting the A&K to an amp?



The aren't the "grounds" - they're the reverse of the + signal that, when combined at the input reject any noise that's entered the signal.

The RCA inputs don't have the circuitry to take care of that. Google RCA and XLR balanced circuits if you need to.

The cable may take a balanced signal and output to RCA's, but it's not balanced at the output end at the amp.

The correct AK 2.5mm to balanced cable is https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/coll...alanced-2-5mm-to-dual-3pin-xlr-cable-1-5metre

Feel free to find a balance 2.5mm to RCA cable that's branded/sold by AK.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

raband said:


> The aren't the "grounds" - they're the reverse of the + signal that, when combined at the input reject any noise that's entered the signal.
> 
> The RCA inputs don't have the circuitry to take care of that. Google RCA and XLR balanced circuits if you need to.
> 
> ...



Close.  Take a look at this:


----------



## raband

AthenaZephyrian said:


> Close. Take a look at this:



Hey - please don't get in the way of my misinformation confusing the OP's misinformation even further


----------



## AthenaZephyrian (Sep 4, 2018)

Wait wait.  I was wrong, in a minor technical way.  The above is a different type of cable, which carries both right and left channels, with a positive and negative polarity for both channels, plus ground.

This is XLR:




We see here that there must be at least 5 leads in any cable which contains both XRL channels (like I stated earlier).  If it is to carry one channel, it must have three, and only three leads.  Our friend RCA has two leads.  So it's still impossible, without giving up grounding.

And the receiver needs the correct circuitry to invert the phase of the negative lead, which it will not in a system designed to accept normal RCA.

It'd be interesting to mod one of these to take a 3-RCA input as balanced, though.... then again, you'd lose all the benefits of shielding from the ground lead, unless you broke a single cable out into three RCA plugs (one for each channel, one ground) at the end.


----------



## Klonk

I have read through this whole thread plus other threads dealing with Stax products. I bought a SR-009S and use it with a borrowed Stax 006T. It sounds pleasant enough and I like the softness that  the tubes give the sound of the 009S. But after reading though all this pages, it seems I don't get to hear the full potential of the SR-009. So I decided I will buy an aftermarket amp. And it seems, that Mjolnir-audio or Headamp are  the best choices quality wise. But the big question is what does sound right for me, and since I can't listen to any of these amps around here I have to guess which one would suit  my aural preferences best. So I have it narrowed down to these three: Blue Hawaii SE (Very expensive, needs NOS tubes to sound best, in case of repair it needs to be returned to the US, I am in Europe), Mjolnir Carbon (would be my choice, no tube hassle, can be turned on for days without problem, however I am not sure if I like the sound signature (Bob Katz mentioned in his review, that he (Quote: It's better with a touch of high frequency softening and bass boost.........................) and he uses a 007, which is already softer in the HG than a 009S. Furthermore I don't like EQ) 

Furthermore one of the members here Astrostar which used to use an AN DAC which I am familiar with, sold his Carbon (although not a Mjolnir one). 

That brings me to my choice number three Mjolnir KGST. Unfortunately there is not much talk of this amp. Is it because it is not considered TOTL stuff?

What little I found on it is most intriguing, since it uses smaller tubes, cheaper to replace, is probably not as transparent as the above mentioned amplifiers. My guess would be, that it sounds similar to a Stax 007t? 

BTW. I don't listen at very loud levels, maybe once in blue moon. But very briefly. And I like an organic sound signature. 


I am happy with any input regarding my questions.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Seems like you might prefer the BHSE. Mjolnir Audio also offers one for slightly less than HeadAmp.

You could also PM one of the known Stax amp builders and see if they are willing to build you a Grounded Grid for an agreeable amount. The Grounded Grid to me seems like it should replace the BHSE, just on paper at least since I have yet to use one.


----------



## Klonk

Thank you for your reply Rhamnetin. Yes, I think the GG would be an interesting option, however it might be even more expensive than the Headamp/BHSE. It is a pity, that Mjolnir doesn't offer one. Regarding the BHSE that Mjolnir Audio has on sale, it says in the description on his website, that it has a slight hum, and although it is not through the headphone, this is something which I find annoying in audio item in that price bracket. 

All the other known Stax amp builders I am not comfortable with ordering from. It seems to me, that Headamp and Mjolnir are the real deal. But perhaps I have fallen prey to the Stax mafias propaganda 

Any words on the KGST


----------



## Whitigir (Sep 4, 2018)

Klonk said:


> Thank you for your reply Rhamnetin. Yes, I think the GG would be an interesting option, however it might be even more expensive than the Headamp/BHSE. It is a pity, that Mjolnir doesn't offer one. Regarding the BHSE that Mjolnir Audio has on sale, it says in the description on his website, that it has a slight hum, and although it is not through the headphone, this is something which I find annoying in audio item in that price bracket.
> 
> All the other known Stax amp builders I am not comfortable with ordering from. It seems to me, that Headamp and Mjolnir are the real deal. But perhaps I have fallen prey to the Stax mafias propaganda
> 
> Any words on the KGST



Everything comes with a price.  Going with headamp and Mjolnir will be expensive and you get your “peace of mind”.  On the other hand, if you don’t believe that KG designs can be solid and good once put together, perhap, you should stop looking at all KG designs.

However, I do really recommend those 2 places, and that is for the better future of the Mafia.  But please, do not talk about pricing.  You always have a choice

From my perspective, both Mjolnir and Headamp products are still too cheap for running their places and deal with “customers”


----------



## Klonk

Yes, Rhamnetin your are right everything comes with a price. If I had the option to listen to it first and I like what I heard, I'd be more than willing to pay the price.  When I wrote that I might have fallen prey to the Stax mafias propaganda I didn't refer to KG designs, I am sure technically they are perfect. But sometimes when you read comments from Spritzer on other forums you can get the impression that other builders are not as proficient as him or Headamp. But perhaps that is just my impression.


----------



## georgep

Klonk said:


> ... But sometimes when you read comments from Spritzer on other forums you can get the impression that other builders are not as proficient as him or Headamp. But perhaps that is just my impression.



Although he calls out questionable builders, he is typically slamming commercial manufacturers like Trilogy, Cavalli, MSB, Hifiman, MrSpeakers, etc.


----------



## plinth

Klonk said:


> Yes, Rhamnetin your are right everything comes with a price. If I had the option to listen to it first and I like what I heard, I'd be more than willing to pay the price.  When I wrote that I might have fallen prey to the Stax mafias propaganda I didn't refer to KG designs, I am sure technically they are perfect. But sometimes when you read comments from Spritzer on other forums you can get the impression that other builders are not as proficient as him or Headamp. But perhaps that is just my impression.



Why not drop Spritzer an email, he is most helpful and will try and sell you the unit that best fits your needs, not that which  gets him the biggest sale. I have two of his Carbons and I fall in love with them anew every day.


----------



## karlgerman

@Klonk,

Inexxon might be interesting for you. He is in Germany and offer the new Inexxon Sirius High Precision Amp. As i know he is connected to Andreas Rauenbühler  who made the *High Amp Alpha Centauri V7 for Stax Headphones*
More stuff on his web site.


----------



## Klonk

Thank you for your replies. Eventually I will contact Spritzer, however first I wanted to hear some more opinions on this forum, especially regarding the KGST design. Perhaps some forum members have experience with it.


----------



## Klonk

Karlgerman, thank you for pointing out Inexxon to me. I have read about it in a German forum, I am not sure if I am allowed to mention its name on Head-Fi.
I am also aware of Paltauf, a Austrian manufacturer of a Stax amp. But same problem, I can't listen to it. And regarding Inexxon, at the end of the day I usually prefer tube amp designs. However if I could listen to it, I might change my mind regarding transistor designs.


----------



## joseph69

Klonk said:


> Any words on the KGST


I know this may be irrelevant due to speaking of the 009, but some say there's not a huge difference between the 009/009S, and some disagree, and I myself have never heard the 009S, so... 

I had a Mjolnir KGST paired with my 009 while waiting for my BHSE to arrive and too me it was definitely a nice pairing too my ears. 
I felt it was an even nicer pairing than the Mjolnir KGSShv which was too revealing and a little on the bright side with the 009 for me.


----------



## joseph69

Klonk said:


> But same problem, I can't listen to it.


With aftermarket Stax amps you need to buy & try before finding what suits your taste, unless you know others who own what you're interested in hearing. With the amps you're interested in hearing, you will only lose a minimum amount of money on resale, which to me is well worth it if you want to hear it in your home on your own system.


----------



## Klonk

joseph69, thanks for your reply. Was there a huge sonic difference between the KGST and the BHSE ( I assume it is a Headamp one?) at not very high volume levels?


----------



## Whitigir

Klonk said:


> joseph69, thanks for your reply. Was there a huge sonic difference between the KGST and the BHSE ( I assume it is a Headamp one?) at not very high volume levels?


Pretty easy, judge by the pricing.  KG designs are DIY, so beside parts and components, experiences, there is only a fraction of labor involved.  The more expensive it is, the better it performs.  You are not talking about manufacturing these amps like many companies do, patented and protected, warranty, insurances......etc....etc.

You can not go wrong with the saying “it is expensive because it sounds good” with KG designs, because it is all opened for DIY


----------



## joseph69 (Sep 4, 2018)

Klonk said:


> joseph69, thanks for your reply. Was there a huge sonic difference between the KGST and the BHSE ( I assume it is a Headamp one?) at not very high volume levels?


Yes, HeadAmps BHSE. The difference was distinguishable to my ears,
preferring the BHSE due to its capability to drive the 009 (and 007MK2) with more authority/depth/sound stage & clarity. Both the Mjolnir KGST & BHSE give nice tonality to the 009.


----------



## Klonk

@joseph69, do you use NOS tubes in your BHSE?


----------



## Whitigir

Klonk said:


> @joseph69, do you use NOS tubes in your BHSE?


NOS Tubes is always a shot in the dark.  I just had a quad matched which gone bad on me, and it was only 9 months old.  I am tired with NOS hunting, and will just be sticking to the most modern tubes from now on.

1/ nos tubes are expensive, and asking for it to be reliably strong is like playing a poker hand with a 2 and an 8...

2/ nos tubes sellers are mostly...not really honest, and it could be the nature of NOS Tubes being so hard to find, or the nature of the human being itself or both.

Anyways, it performance is undeniably good, but IMO, still not worth it


----------



## Rhamnetin

Whitigir said:


> NOS Tubes is always a shot in the dark.  I just had a quad matched which gone bad on me, and it was only 9 months old.  I am tired with NOS hunting, and will just be sticking to the most modern tubes from now on.
> 
> 1/ nos tubes are expensive, and asking for it to be reliably strong is like playing a poker hand with a 2 and an 8...
> 
> ...



Yeah and good NOS EL34 can cost a fortune, especially quad matched. There are some good production tubes today like psvane, just so much easier. Though solid state is easiest!


----------



## joseph69

Klonk said:


> @joseph69, do you use NOS tubes in your BHSE?


I did use ('58-'62 IIRC?) NOS Amperex Bugle Boys in my BHSE until I purchased the'99-'00 NOS Svetlana Winged C EL34s (recommended by a fellow Had-Fier) which cost a fraction of the price, and I prefer them much more.


----------



## Whitigir

Next up would be to Roll FETS instead of tubes  lol


----------



## georgep

Whitigir said:


> NOS Tubes is always a shot in the dark.  I just had a quad matched which gone bad on me, and it was only 9 months old.  I am tired with NOS hunting, and will just be sticking to the most modern tubes from now on.
> ...



Which tubes were they, and in what way did they go bad? Care to share the source? One of my favourites are people selling dual triodes where they only test, measure and match one half of the *dual* triode.


----------



## Whitigir

georgep said:


> Which tubes were they, and in what way did they go bad? Care to share the source? One of my favourites are people selling dual triodes where they only test, measure and match one half of the *dual* triode.


Yes, it was the e88cc Philips SQ.  It would be on, but there is noises, and it makes my balances out of whack and oscilliating, until I plugged in JJ-88CC.  Bought it from EBay


----------



## georgep

Yes, that is a classic issue with the dual triodes where sellers are just pushing out tubes. And if the two sides of each tube are not reasonably balanced, it will throw balance and offset majorly out of whack. I have a tube tester just to double check everything. Which ebay seller was it?


----------



## Whitigir

georgep said:


> Yes, that is a classic issue with the dual triodes where sellers are just pushing out tubes. And if the two sides of each tube are not reasonably balanced, it will throw balance and offset majorly out of whack. I have a tube tester just to double check everything. Which ebay seller was it?


Tubes.rs is the sellerID.  It was just sad, but I will be sticking to modern tubes from now on X_X


----------



## SeaWo|f (Sep 4, 2018)

@Klonk

I have spritzers bhse if you at worried about hum don't. It's what it is very large transformer that had to be mounted on the top panel(like the amp and PS boards). Unless you are sitting with your head right next to the amp you should not hear it. On whatever frequency power I am getting in Reno (should be 60ish) on the 120 winding I don't have hum. And like spritzer says it's not hum like noise in the output.

Also I've been happy with the psvane ph metal base replica in my amp.


----------



## Klonk

SeaWo|f said:


> @Klonk
> 
> I have spritzers bhse if you at worried about ......................................... .
> 
> Also I've been happy with the psvane ph metal base replica in my amp.




Thank you for your reply. Have you ever heard the Headamp BHSE. What are the sonic differences?


----------



## SeaWo|f

I have, it was also with a yggy but I don't remember what tubes were in it. They to me are tuned a bit different. Spritzers has a bit more body to the notes and a bit more impact, while the head amp has a very small touch of that ethereal nature often attributed to stats.


----------



## georgep

Whitigir said:


> Tubes.rs is the sellerID.  It was just sad, but I will be sticking to modern tubes from now on X_X



Yeah, I am not deterred from NOS, but the seller makes all the difference here.

As an aside, I have never had great success with dutch-made 6922 tubes in the T2. They might work fine in other applications where matching and microphonics are not an issue. For the T2 I go with west German or Japan (matsush*ta, but not Toshiba or others).


----------



## JimL11 (Sep 4, 2018)

karlgerman said:


> @Klonk,
> 
> Inexxon might be interesting for you. He is in Germany and offer the new Inexxon Sirius High Precision Amp. As i know he is connected to Andreas Rauenbühler  who made the *High Amp Alpha Centauri V7 for Stax Headphones*
> More stuff on his web site.



I looked at the Highend Amp website, which includes schematics of their designs. They do have an advantage over the Stax amps in that they include a regulated power supply, however, the Alpha Centauri amp uses resistor loaded output stages, similar to the Stax SRM-T1, which means that a lot of their output power is burned up in the resistors. The KGST, which would be the equivalent of the Alpha Centauri, uses the more powerful 6S4A output tubes, but also uses constant current loads which burn up essentially no signal current, which more than doubles their effective power compared to plate resistor loads. To get some idea of the subjective effect of this circuit change, look at spritzer's comments about what a similar modification did to the sound of the Stax T1. The KGST also uses a regulated power supply.

The Canopus and Capella designs suffer from the same defect as the Alpha Centauri - they use tube amplification throughout but also have plate resistor outputs. By comparison, the SRX Plus, based on a 1968 Stax DIY circuit, also uses tube amplification throughout but uses constant current output loads which results in it having more effective output power despite using the less powerful 6SN7GTA/B output tubes.


----------



## mulveling (Sep 4, 2018)

Not only are there the usual "how strong & matched do they actually measure" NOS tube issues, but I've noticed over the years almost ALL tube vendors make plenty of mistakes. Many times with rare tubes that had long production runs, you won't even get a good construction match in your "matched pair". Always insist on a construction match, because if nothing else it will hurt resale value. I've had tubes come in with loose or even missing pins. Receiving a "NOS" tube with almost no getter left is pretty insulting (in general, many vintage tubes being sold are not actually NOS). And of course they may even send the outright wrong tube for part or all of your order. These mistakes don't even cover the risk of counterfeits - which fortunately I've never received. It feels similar to making a long order at fast food drive-thru, where you just know some of your order will be wrong or subpar. That said I don't think I've ever seen a mistake from Andy at Vintage Tube Services, but him being a one-man show, you won't get as fast a response and turnaround as from other vendors. 

I've been trying some Siemens (West Germany) gold-pin E88CC (Platinum grade from Upscale Audio) in my T2, and they are pretty nice so far! Quiet as a mouse.


----------



## Eich1eeF

Klonk said:


> That brings me to my choice number three Mjolnir KGST. Unfortunately there is not much talk of this amp.


If you intend to buy something from Mjolnir Audio, try contacting Brigir if you can visit and listen to some of his products. At ~5000$, a return flight for 100 EUR would be a wise investment. You may have to act quickly, since some airlines don't have connections to Iceland during the winter, which appears to be October-May.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Hey T2 owners, would you say the T2 is as 'fast' as a pumped up (22mA) KGSSHV Carbon? Particularly the speed of the decay and tactility/crispness of the attack. Of course this will also depend on the tubes.

SR-009 on a really fast system = best rock out headphones for rock and metal in my opinion, and not counting the SR-009S since I have no experience with it, there's no close second I've come across.


----------



## mulveling

This is gonna shock you bro, but I'm about to praise the T2! I listen to a lot of rock and metal. I only had a Carbon set I think at either 17 or 18mA, but it was indeed very fast on and crisp. Probably similar/close to T2 in that regard. But then, I find the T2 so vastly more natural that it feels like removing a few more layers between me and the music, and gets my adrenaline flowing to a degree that the Carbon could only dream of. The Carbon sounded more artificial, mechanical, and also somehow "veiled" by comparison, even though it is tonally brighter and indeed very fast. 

I agree that the 009 (and 009S - can't really pick a favorite here; depends on the recording and my mood) are by far the best headphones I've heard for rock & metal.


----------



## 336881

Rhamnetin said:


> Hey T2 owners, would you say the T2 is as 'fast' as a pumped up (22mA) KGSSHV Carbon? Particularly the speed of the decay and tactility/crispness of the attack. Of course this will also depend on the tubes.
> 
> SR-009 on a really fast system = best rock out headphones for rock and metal in my opinion, and not counting the SR-009S since I have no experience with it, there's no close second I've come across.



Hd800 + Apex Teton + 422a, gec6a7g, 6sn7w > Sr-009 + kgsshv with rock, with dac imo.


----------



## Rhamnetin (Sep 5, 2018)

antimatter said:


> Hd800 + Apex Teton + 422a, gec6a7g, 6sn7w > Sr-009 + kgsshv with rock, with dac imo.



That seems like it'd take the HD 800 to a more lush side (relatively speaking)? Which is actually how I prefer the HD 800. But not enough impact or bass quantity to the HD 800 for me and I can't get over the SR-009's speed.


----------



## firegon

Sorry if that's not the right place to ask, but is there some relatively easy way to measure the channel balance of a stax energizer ( in this case KGSS ) ?


----------



## pegasus21

firegon said:


> Sorry if that's not the right place to ask, but is there some relatively easy way to measure the channel balance of a stax energizer ( in this case KGSS ) ?


The easy way is use a volt meter. Measure across the left channel then measure the right channel and try and match the trimmer that adjusts the balance. Repeat the measurement till its as close to a match as possible. If you have 2 volt meters and are able to put the probes in, it’ll be easier to compare the channels.


----------



## firegon (Sep 5, 2018)

pegasus21 said:


> The easy way is use a volt meter. Measure across the left channel then measure the right channel and try and match the trimmer that adjusts the balance. Repeat the measurement till its as close to a match as possible. If you have 2 volt meters and are able to put the probes in, it’ll be easier to compare the channels.


Thanks a lot!
Sorry for asking (probably) even stupider question, but is it enough that it says range: 12-690V or should I look for something more specific while buying a volt meter*?


----------



## zolkis

mulveling said:


> But then, I find the T2 so vastly more natural that it feels like removing a few more layers between me and the music, and gets my adrenaline flowing to a degree that the Carbon could only dream of. The Carbon sounded more artificial, mechanical, and also somehow "veiled" by comparison, even though it is tonally brighter and indeed very fast.



You have described perfectly the difference I also hear between very good tube amps and even the best transistor amps. The (perceived) more direct connection to music is the main thing. However, tube amps often have more limited use case range (or require stricter usage context than transistors), cost more and are less convenient. Also, the perceived difference is very subjective, for some people is much less important than for others. I am happily using transistor amps for the rest of the family, and reserve the tube amps for myself .


----------



## kevin gilmore

pegasus21 said:


> The easy way is use a volt meter. Measure across the left channel then measure the right channel and try and match the trimmer that adjusts the balance. Repeat the measurement till its as close to a match as possible. If you have 2 volt meters and are able to put the probes in, it’ll be easier to compare the channels.



not exactly. each channel has an offset and a balance. The offset adjusts the DC offset between any of the outputs (L+,L-,R+,R-) and chassis ground. The balance adjusts the difference between L+ and L-  or R+ and R-
make sure you know which of the 4 output pins on the stax connector you are connected to and never turn the pots more than 10 degrees, or you are doing something wrong and should stop. 2 meters is always better.
If the unit was adjusted correctly in the beginning, changing the tubes is unlikely to require further adjustments.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

I'm thinking about replacing the earpads on my Lambda Signature Pro, because they're really old, but at the same time: _if it ain't broke, don't fix it,_ and they ain't exactly "broke."

They still sound _fantastic_, of course, even though the pads don't make a seal even a little bit (in contrast my SR-407 pads make a strong seal). I don't know what to expect new pads to do to the sound. Do most people find that to sound better, subjectively? Is there even any difference in the sound, and the primary benefits to new pads are mostly just comfort related?

I believe they are still on their original pads! They must have been made in the mid-1980s I think?


 


Are there any different options when it comes to replacing Lambda earpads? Is the Stax OEM stuff you can ship from Japan the only choice? I love Dekoni's pads and I have a pair on every non-stax I own, but so far they haven't returned my email asking about Lambdas.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Sep 8, 2018)

mulveling said:


> I find the T2 so vastly more natural that it feels like removing a few more layers between me and the music, and gets my adrenaline flowing to a degree that the Carbon could only dream of. The Carbon sounded more artificial, mechanical, and also somehow "veiled" by comparison, even though it is tonally brighter and indeed very fast.





zolkis said:


> You have described perfectly the difference I also hear between very good tube amps and even the best transistor amps. The (perceived) more direct connection to music is the main thing



The funny thing is that I would describe the benefits of solid state amps in _exactly_ the same terms as you guys are describing tubes! SS has a more direct connection to the music, it sounds more natural, whereas tubes are veiled and muddy and get in the way of the pure sound to me.

That's an amusing reminder of how different people don't even have the same idea of what an amp "should" do, and how pathetic our language is at describing it. Can tube and SS designs _both_ sound "more natural" than the other? I guess, but that's really confusing.


----------



## Rhamnetin

DJ The Rocket said:


> The funny thing is that I would describe the benefits of solid state amps in _exactly_ the same terms as you guys are describing tubes! SS has a more direct connection to the music, it sounds more natural, whereas tubes are veiled and muddy and get in the way of the pure sound to me.
> 
> That's an amusing reminder of how different people don't even have the same idea of what an amp "should" do, and how pathetic our language is at describing it. Can tube and SS designs _both_ sound "more natural" than the other? I guess, but that's really confusing.



Of course, the best way to compare would be similar amps but with tubes vs solid states. For Stax, we can kind of do that by comparing a KGSSHV Carbon to a Grounded Grid. The Grounded Grid thread actually does that.

But at the end of the day, all of those comparisons will still be almost entirely subjective so you're right. I have also become partial to solid state, but I have zero experience with the T2 and chances are it'll remain that way due to its price. I'm only interested in one amp upgrade right now, and that'd be to a Circlotron once they're ready. My immediate interest would be in a solid state one, though if EML 20B-V4 versions ever come out I'd have to consider it lol.


----------



## Whitigir

Rhamnetin said:


> Of course, the best way to compare would be similar amps but with tubes vs solid states. For Stax, we can kind of do that by comparing a KGSSHV Carbon to a Grounded Grid. The Grounded Grid thread actually does that.
> 
> But at the end of the day, all of those comparisons will still be almost entirely subjective so you're right. I have also become partial to solid state, but I have zero experience with the T2 and chances are it'll remain that way due to its price. I'm only interested in one amp upgrade right now, and that'd be to a Circlotron once they're ready. My immediate interest would be in a solid state one, though if EML 20B-V4 versions ever come out I'd have to consider it lol.



Why are you particularly interested in Eml v4 Tubes ? KG amps can run them with some modifications, but my questions is why ?


----------



## Rhamnetin

Whitigir said:


> Why are you particularly interested in Eml v4 Tubes ? KG amps can run them with some modifications, but my questions is why ?



I guess I'm mostly curious about how they'd sound in comparison. Chances are I will stick with solid state though.


----------



## Whitigir

Rhamnetin said:


> I guess I'm mostly curious about how they'd sound in comparison. Chances are I will stick with solid state though.


Lol, you gotta make up your mind.  Anyways, I was once curious about them too, but I rather go with something is proven, NOS XF2 EL34 England, period.  There is someone who played with EMB and did not really care much


----------



## Rhamnetin

Whitigir said:


> Lol, you gotta make up your mind.  Anyways, I was once curious about them too, but I rather go with something is proven, NOS XF2 EL34 England, period.  There is someone who played with EMB and did not really care much



My mind will be made up for me most likely. Doubt we'll ever see an EML 20B-V4 Circlotron, and that's a lot more money anyway. All I know is, I've only got one amp upgrade and one DAC upgrade left!


----------



## Whitigir

Rhamnetin said:


> My mind will be made up for me most likely. Doubt we'll ever see an EML 20B-V4 Circlotron, and that's a lot more money anyway. All I know is, I've only got one amp upgrade and one DAC upgrade left!


The question is...will you pay for it ? If someone was to specifically made this amp you are dreaming off and is one of a kind for $65k ?

I mean, anything can happen if you throw enough money at it ? Lol.  I am going back to enjoying my T2 and 009S for the night


----------



## Magol79

DJ The Rocket said:


> I'm thinking about replacing the earpads on my Lambda Signature Pro, because they're really old, but at the same time: _if it ain't broke, don't fix it,_ and they ain't exactly "broke."
> 
> They still sound _fantastic_, of course, even though the pads don't make a seal even a little bit (in contrast my SR-407 pads make a strong seal). I don't know what to expect new pads to do to the sound. Do most people find that to sound better, subjectively? Is there even any difference in the sound, and the primary benefits to new pads are mostly just comfort related?
> 
> ...


I don't know how new pads affect the sound of your Lambdas or even how they are attached (glue?) and wether it's a good idea to replace them. However, Vesper Audio make custom earpads and they have made a few pads for Stax Lambdas. Also, they are not outrageously expensive for what you get.


----------



## tigon_ridge

Magol79 said:


> I don't know how new pads affect the sound of your Lambdas or even how they are attached (glue?) and wether it's a good idea to replace them. However, Vesper Audio make custom earpads and they have made a few pads for Stax Lambdas. Also, they are not outrageously expensive for what you get.



The newest lambdas use a somewhat loose attachment system, whereas the older ones used glue. I think the change was made to make pad-switching easier. I have a suspicion that it's been responsible for the new lambdas' more drastic bass roll-off. Having modded pads in the past (jerg mod for Hifiman planars) and crafted a DIY pair for my L300, I'm not too convinced that changing pads do a whole lot to change sound, except to provide a different degree of seal, and thicker pads do tend to widen the soundstage slightly at the expense of intimacy.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

DJ The Rocket said:


> I'm thinking about replacing the earpads on my Lambda Signature Pro, because they're really old, but at the same time: _if it ain't broke, don't fix it,_ and they ain't exactly "broke."
> 
> They still sound _fantastic_, of course, even though the pads don't make a seal even a little bit (in contrast my SR-407 pads make a strong seal). I don't know what to expect new pads to do to the sound. Do most people find that to sound better, subjectively? Is there even any difference in the sound, and the primary benefits to new pads are mostly just comfort related?
> 
> ...


Lambda Sig = best Lambda ever 

Ali


----------



## Pokemonn (Sep 9, 2018)

Hi Stax fans

I just found a fact about my Stax rig yesterday. i will share it for newbie Stax fans FyI. so this info is NOT for veteran Stax mafias.

I always feeled stax sounded etchy but i found the reson of it.
For me its just came from DAC's output stage crappy sounding conventinal opamps.(probablly)
I just tried Schiit Bifrost 4490(which have descrete Class A output stage cuircuit) + KGSShv Carbon + SR-L700 combo.
Wow Just sounds RIGHT! it sounds so Analoug Smooth Punchy Dynamic 3D!
Yes Stax HP are tooooo tranceparent so maybe you can hear crappy opamps flows of your DACs.
IMO DAC output stage should be descrete Class A cuircuit for Stax. Otherwise it will sound crappy!

hope this some newbies helps.

Cheers.


----------



## Madra

Ali-Pacha said:


> Lambda Sig = best Lambda ever
> 
> Ali


Does this preference include the newer L-700 and L-300 SE?
I am currently listening to a Lambda Signature driven by a 006tII and I am very pleased with the result.


----------



## Pokemonn

Madra said:


> Does this preference include the newer L-700 and L-300 SE?
> I am currently listening to a Lambda Signature driven by a 006tII and I am very pleased with the result.


Yes Lambda Signature sounds much mellower/smoother than latest Lambdas such as SR207 or L700 etc.


----------



## Ali-Pacha (Sep 9, 2018)

Madra said:


> Does this preference include the newer L-700 and L-300 SE?
> I am currently listening to a Lambda Signature driven by a 006tII and I am very pleased with the result.


For me, yes. L series benefit from their leaky design to get more low mid hump then more subjective energy, but the air, extension and gorgeous mids of Lambda Sig are still to be matched IMO.
SR-x0x are too screechy in the high mids for me, and lack the mellowness and the air of Lambda Sig.

Ali


----------



## Hubert481 (Sep 9, 2018)

lambda signature better than L700 ?


----------



## Ali-Pacha (Sep 9, 2018)

For me, yes. But this hobby is all about subjectivity. I'm way past the quest for an imaginary holy grail. HD800 + Vali2, BHSE + a bunch of Stax I like (no more 007 among them, too dull / slow and uneven in the highs), Yggy as a source, I'm done now.

Ali


----------



## Madra

@Pokemonn and @Ali-Pacha , thanks for the feedback. 

My story with the Lambda Signature goes a long way. I first heard it at the Paris Audio Show in the early nineties (I was living there at the time), along with Jecklin Floats and the AKG K1000. I ended buying the Signature with a used SRD-7SB and used it for the best of three years. Coming back home, I moved to 2 channel, bought Quad Electrostats, boxed the Staxes and stored them in a cabinet. Twenty something years later, my listening time moved to late night, and decided to go back to headphones. I bought an Hd650 with a GOv2, then remembered that I had the Lambda Signature. A close friend of mine helped removing the disintegrated foam, cleaned them up, inspected them (he repairs Quad Electrostats) and to my big surprise, they were perfectly operational. I lucked on a mint 006tii, and i have been enjoying the pairing since.

My exposure to Stax is limited to the Lambda Signature, but I found them to be very revealing of souce, recording, even cable changes. Yet offer a rightness of sound and a fatigue free listening to the extent that I do not miss my 2ch system as much.

I will be watching Stax very closely. I am hooked again!


----------



## DJ The Rocket

I'll join in on the Lambda Sig love-fest  I agree that they have a unique mellow and airy sound -- ethereal is another good word for it. They're "low contrast," to borrow a photography concept. They're like turning on the blue-light filter on your phone screen, how your eyes feel instantly more relaxed.

I've heard an L300, and it's really hard to compare them because they're not really that similar. I didn't care for it, subjectively. I'd love to try an L700 just to see what the top of that line is like.


----------



## Aurlieus

Madra said:


> @Pokemonn and @Ali-Pacha , thanks for the feedback.
> 
> My story with the Lambda Signature goes a long way. I first heard it at the Paris Audio Show in the early nineties (I was living there at the time), along with Jecklin Floats and the AKG K1000. I ended buying the Signature with a used SRD-7SB and used it for the best of three years. Coming back home, I moved to 2 channel, bought Quad Electrostats, boxed the Staxes and stored them in a cabinet. Twenty something years later, my listening time moved to late night, and decided to go back to headphones. I bought an Hd650 with a GOv2, then remembered that I had the Lambda Signature. A close friend of mine helped removing the disintegrated foam, cleaned them up, inspected them (he repairs Quad Electrostats) and to my big surprise, they were perfectly operational. I lucked on a mint 006tii, and i have been enjoying the pairing since.
> 
> ...


OMG! I think you are the brother of the gentleman who purchased the SRM-006Tii from me. His name is O**r. Black unit with an upgraded HiFi-Tuning fuse. Small world! Seems like you are enjoying the purchase, I am glad it helped to get you into the Stax world.


----------



## Madra

Aurlieus said:


> OMG! I think you are the brother of the gentleman who purchased the SRM-006Tii from me. His name is O**r. Black unit with an upgraded HiFi-Tuning fuse. Small world! Seems like you are enjoying the purchase, I am glad it helped to get you into the Stax world.


Bingo!!! I am the one. Small world indeed, more so in Stax land. I never had a way to thank you for the amp, but it exceeded my expectations. 
I am thinking of adding some tube dampers, pure Nervosa I guess! 
Do tell us how you feel about the AV amp that replaced it.


----------



## Aurlieus

Heh! You are welcome, and welcome (back) to the headphone community, especially the Stax brethren. I have an SR-007 Mkii at the moment, it is creamy and lush, but with the SRM-006Tii it was just too much of a good thing, the amp will likely be better suited to your Stax earspeakers, but I cannot know for sure as I have not heard them. 

BUT, with my cable modded KOSS ESP950, the SRM-006Tii was a great match, it managed to paper over the, sometimes, lean sounding nature of the KOSS. The AudioValve Solaris drives the SR-007 Mkii with aplomb. It sounds bigger and does not get congested at higher volumes and during more difficult musical passages. I really cannot compare against the Mjölnir-Audio or the HeadAmp BHSE as I have never heard them. But the AudioValue will likely be a bit off the pace of these two, naturally, as it is an all-in-one solution for balanced dynamic driver headphones, pre-amp duties and even a very decent integrated amp for sensitive speakers! 

Still, it is a pretty little Swiss army knife and I will not part with it. I believe that member Currawong has the exact same model and will likely be publishing a review of it in the coming months. I believe Currawong owns a Stax SR-009, but I could be wrong, however, he does have a gamut of very high-end dynamic and planar magnetic headphones that he will test on the AudioValve Solaris. 

I have an SR-009s on order, will report back when it arrives...counting the days!


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Just got the Stax L300.  The difference is more subtle on the track I first demo'd than moving from dynamic Soundmagic HP200's to planar 400i's, but the difference is so much bigger on detailed tracks.  It's extremely impressive, especially for the price.

Worth my money and then some.


----------



## Magol79 (Sep 10, 2018)

A PM from a fellow forum member set of the following chain of events:

Me: So, I have finally crawled back up from this head-fi hellhole. Man, it feels good. I’m all set now.

Kevin Gilmore (KG): I’ll **** everything up for you.

Me: Huh? Anyways, I have it all laid out now. A few workhorse headphones and a small selection of TOTL cans. I have even decided on what amps and dacs to go with them.

KG: **** your plans!

Me: Yeah, yeah.. Hush now. This is how it’s going to be: I have the SR-009 and a KGSShv built by headinclouds down in the living room. The L700’s will play nicely together with the SRM-007tII in my office. It’s decided. I’m set. I have already spent way too much on this. I am satisfied now.

*Nervous twitch*.

Me: Those head-fi guys in the Stax thread really do seem to love their TOTL amps though. But, I don’t know… I think the SRM-007tII is pretty great. It runs my L700’s just fine. Besides I already have the KGSShv by headinclouds. It can’t get much better than that. I doubt the BHSE, Carbon, GG or diy T2 really have much more to offer…

*Blissful ignorance*

PM from tigon_ride: Hey man, does the KGSShv make a big difference compared to the 007tII when driving the L700’s?

Me: I don’t know. Let me check. Brb.

[Note: this is when I should have packed up my current gear and ran for the hills.]

*Fiddling with cables and amps and setting things up*

Me: Ok, let’s give this a try, doubt much will come of it.

*Puts on L700’s and switches between the KGSShv and SRM-007tII*

Me: Huh? Is my Stax amp broken? Why does it sound so muted and soft? Something isn’t right… :/

KG: **** your Stax amp!

*Switches back to KGSShv*

Me: Oh.. Now I get it.. Fuuuu…. I have to sell the Stax amp now…

*Ground collapses under my feet, the head-fi hell chasm opens up again*

Me: The Carbon seems like a really good SS amp… Oh, look at that, Spritzer has them in stock…

*Wallet spontaneously combusts*


Ok, so the the L700 on the KGSShv completely crushed the SRM-007tII in a way I wasn’t really prepared for. This was very revealing. The most obvious differences were that the KGSShv was faster, had a bigger, bolder, more powerful sound and much better treble. It’s honestly quite hard to go back to the Stax amp now…


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Magol79 said:


> A PM from a fellow forum member set of the following chain of events:
> 
> Me: So, I have finally crawled back up from this head-fi hellhole. Man, it feels good. I’m all set now.
> 
> ...



Dude, we need to lock this thread down, dismantle the server, and store it underground, in a bunker.  You're gonna cause an economic apocalypse with talk like this.


----------



## mulveling

You literally never hit diminishing returns when it comes to acquiring bigger & badder KG Stax amps.


----------



## Magol79

mulveling said:


> You literally never hit diminishing returns when it comes to acquiring bigger & badder KG Stax amps.


I believe you. Though I fear for my sanity while trying to rationalize my next acquisition.


----------



## tigon_ridge

That PM was all a part of my grand, ultimate conspiracy to help boost the U.S. economy. All is going as according to plan.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

tigon_ridge said:


> That PM was all a part of my grand, ultimate conspiracy to help boost the U.S. economy. All is going as according to plan.



Spritzer is from...iceland I think.


----------



## tigon_ridge

AthenaZephyrian said:


> Spritzer is from...iceland I think.



Okay, but if you think about it, who is most likely to supply all those parts to him, hm? China! Japan! Taiwan! See??

...okay, my patriotic plan may have a few holes in it. It's not like I stayed up all night plotting and scheming. There has to be a few KG builders/sellers in the states, yes?? Sigh.


----------



## elira

Is the iESL a good pairing for the 007?


----------



## DJ The Rocket

Stax started selling electrostats in 1960. That means we're 58 years into their dastardly 60-year plan to _get_ _all of the money_. The plan was to place an electrostat in every household, so everyone would be way too engrossed in their music to resist them. It would have worked too, if it wasn't for the heroes at Skullcandy saturating the market with "great sounding!" cheap earphones before Stax could get to them. Their products are ingeniously designed with a safety feature to prevent consumers from ever getting so into their music that they become easy prey for cynical predators like Stax! (Incidentally it also cut down on music piracy!)

You all think Stax gear sounds so good because of "drivers" or "engineering," well I'm sorry to break it to you but you're wrong. They sound so good for a simple reason. Three words: Pure. Evil. Energy. Period. 

I even heard the character Ancient One in the Dr. Strange movie is based on Stax. So that's definitely true.


----------



## Damien Chung

Would the SMSL su-8 match well with the srm 353x? I have heard that the recommended input voltage for xlr is 6vrms, but the SMSL su-8 has only 4vrms through balance.


----------



## mulveling

DJ The Rocket said:


> Stax started selling electrostats in 1960. That means we're 58 years into their dastardly 60-year plan to _get_ _all of the money_. The plan was to place an electrostat in every household, so everyone would be way too engrossed in their music to resist them. It would have worked too, if it wasn't for the heroes at Skullcandy saturating the market with "great sounding!" cheap earphones before Stax could get to them. Their products are ingeniously designed with a safety feature to prevent consumers from ever getting so into their music that they become easy prey for cynical predators like Stax! (Incidentally it also cut down on music piracy!)
> 
> You all think Stax gear sounds so good because of "drivers" or "engineering," well I'm sorry to break it to you but you're wrong. They sound so good for a simple reason. Three words: Pure. Evil. Energy. Period.
> 
> I even heard the character Ancient One in the Dr. Strange movie is based on Stax. So that's definitely true.


The more evil energy, the better, as far as I'm concerned. My Stax hasn't asked me to start killing yet (let's be real though, it's not gonna just "ask" nicely lol), but I'm on standby to heed the call if necessary.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Sep 10, 2018)

Damien Chung said:


> Would the SMSL su-8 match well with the srm 353x? I have heard that the recommended input voltage for xlr is 6vrms, but the SMSL su-8 has only 4vrms through balance.



The 353x manual says "*Max. Input Level:*_ 30V (at minimum volume level)". _That's the only number that matters: don't exceed 30V. Anything lower than that is perfectly cromulent, so long as you're getting enough volume at the headphones. If you want to experiment, do you have a headphone amp you could use as a preamp? I don't believe adding a preamp will make any positive difference, but it can't hurt to try.

The notion of "matching" amps and preamps is important for tube gear, especially vintage stuff, but it's irrelevant for SS amps. Now, if you're looking for a "colored" amp or DAC to achieve a certain sound, that's completely different.


----------



## JimL11 (Sep 11, 2018)

elira said:


> Is the iESL a good pairing for the 007?



No personal experience, but I have seen complaints that it didn't produce enough sound level. There have also been questions raised about the bias supply, specifically the lack of a safety resistor going to the diaphragm.



Damien Chung said:


> Would the SMSL su-8 match well with the srm 353x? I have heard that the recommended input voltage for xlr is 6vrms, but the SMSL su-8 has only 4vrms through balance.



The SRM-353X has a maximum specified voltage output at 1 kHz of 400 VRMS, with a gain of 1000X, so the maximum input with the volume all the way up is 0.4 VRMS - of course this level will produce about 112 dB SPL, high enough to give you permanent hearing damage within a minute or so. The SMSL su-8 has plenty of output voltage.


----------



## GarageBoy

So lambda Nova signature and the original signature - how different are they? Same airy sound?


----------



## Hubert481

Does anybody know if the stax leather earpad EP-507 does also fit for the Stax SR-404 Signature?
I know, the colour might be different, but i want to know, if the size will fit, because i prefer leather.
https://www.inexxon.com/stax-modelle/stax-kopfhörer/sr-lambda-404-signature/


----------



## Don Quichotte

I'm pretty sure it does, I remember reading about 303 / 404 users upgrading their pads to EP-507. Also, the 404LE had these pads iirc.

I also have a question. Does anybody know if the open cell foam that was used on the outer side of the 303 / 404 drivers, as well as in the oval opening of some old style earpads (subsequently replaced by a detachable woven cloth) ages and crumbles in time even if stored in darkness for many years? I don't know why it deteriorates in time, is it because of the UV, mechanical wear, a slow, insidious chemical reaction in contact with air or what? In other words, can I buy some extra spare pairs and store them in a closed envelope without fear that they will have turned to dust by the time I'll open the envelope, say, 10 years from now?

I know it's a weird question but it's important to me, so please, if you have any idea (or have somebody you could ask), I'd much appreciate any information on this topic. Thanks!


----------



## Madra

Don Quichotte said:


> I'm pretty sure it does, I remember reading about 303 / 404 users upgrading their pads to EP-507. Also, the 404LE had these pads iirc.
> 
> I also have a question. Does anybody know if the open cell foam that was used on the outer side of the 303 / 404 drivers, as well as in the oval opening of some old style earpads (subsequently replaced by a detachable woven cloth) ages and crumbles in time even if stored in darkness for many years? I don't know why it deteriorates in time, is it because of the UV, mechanical wear, a slow, insidious chemical reaction in contact with air or what? In other words, can I buy some extra spare pairs and store them in a closed envelope without fear that they will have turned to dust by the time I'll open the envelope, say, 10 years from now?
> 
> I know it's a weird question but it's important to me, so please, if you have any idea (or have somebody you could ask), I'd much appreciate any information on this topic. Thanks!


The open cell foam of my Lambda Signature (purchased in the mid nineties) disintegrated into a powder like stuff. The phones were used for approx. 3 years and were stored in their box for 20. I have never seen a recent photo of an older stax with the foam intact.


----------



## cjeong

Does the Stax SRM-007TII Drive the SR-007MK2 to adequate levels? If not, does the SRM-727II (Before recommends a KGSSHV Carbon or BHSE, either one of these will be my placeholder amp while I save up for a KGSSHV Carbon.)


----------



## mulveling

I'm normally one who always suggests a more expensive amp, but of those two choices I think you'd be by far best off on a 727 with the simple feedback mod. If you buy it from HeadAmp, I believe they can do the mod for you.


----------



## JimL11 (Sep 12, 2018)

cjeong said:


> Does the Stax SRM-007TII Drive the SR-007MK2 to adequate levels? If not, does the SRM-727II (Before recommends a KGSSHV Carbon or BHSE, either one of these will be my placeholder amp while I save up for a KGSSHV Carbon.)



It depends to some extent on what your listening levels are. The SRM-007 will work for moderate listening levels, but tends to fall apart at higher levels - see the InnerFidelity review from a few years ago. The SRM-727II with global feedback mod will do a better job at higher listening levels, but it does have some solid state coloration. I personally prefer an SRM-T1 with constant current load mod to the SRM727II with global feedback mod, as do a couple friends who have heard both, I would liken it to a baby KGST. The SRM-T1 is significantly less expensive than either the SRM 007TII or SRM 727II but not everyone is comfortable with DIY.


----------



## catscratch

cjeong said:


> Does the Stax SRM-007TII Drive the SR-007MK2 to adequate levels? If not, does the SRM-727II (Before recommends a KGSSHV Carbon or BHSE, either one of these will be my placeholder amp while I save up for a KGSSHV Carbon.)



It will drive the 007 to adequate volume, yes, but not to adequate sound quality. There will be no tactile impact or dynamics, and the sound will be ethereal and pretty dull. Definitely go with something else. No experience with the 727, but the 717 has I'd say barely enough power, but still not fully tapping the 007's potential. A KGSS of some sort is what I'd recommend as a starter.

The 007t does have enough power for the Lambdas though. A 007t/L700 system is pretty nice. Though for the latter a 353x will suffice too.


----------



## cjeong

Alright, thanks for the replies everyone. I think I might be best off saving up for a KGSSHV and 007MK2s and stay happy with my SRS 3100 for now.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Sep 13, 2018)

mulveling said:


> If you buy it from HeadAmp, I believe they can do the mod



The mod is SO EASY if you are even a beginner at soldering. There are good tutorials you can find with a search. It took me about 30 minutes. The only thing I would add to the instructions is that if you get one with the older boards, the resistors you need to remove are laminated to the board and you'll need an exacto knife to dig under them to cut them away and it's kind of a PITA, but it's not hard, just annoying. That procedure accounted for about 26 of the minutes.

You might even be able to buy a stock one for cheaper, then add value with the mod! That was actually my original plan, but I ended up being pretty content with my 727 and two sets of Lambdas. Maybe one day I'll get to hear a 007 on a KGSS and decide I need to have it, but it warms my heart to hear from all the people who genuinely prefer a Lambda Signature or something to the $1+k models, that seems like a uniquely Stax thing.




JimL11 said:


> but it does have some solid state coloration.



I'm not sure what this statement means. What is solid state coloration? No amp is perfect, but I believe plenty are able to keep imperfections below audibility, right? 

Or am I confused and that's just DACs? But wouldn't a DAC also include an amplification circuit of some sort?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

GarageBoy said:


> So lambda Nova signature and the original signature - how different are they? Same airy sound?


Both are Lambda 
LS are way more coloured, with more air, more bass but also less "meat on the bone". Ethereal but never ever agressive.
LNS have more body and are more neutral, they show flatter FR, less high-mids hump and more extension in the highs, but I find them kinda boring for a Lambda, they lack the gorgeous mids of old stuff...that's why I ended up selling them 

Ali


----------



## jarnauga

Hi, maybe you are aware and I didn't check the thread (or did a call to the shop linked), so sorry in advance, but just in case: there is a Stax DAC-X1t for sale in Emporium HiFi (UK) at http://www.emporiumhifi.com/pages/pre-owned-hifi-list.html

The list was updated on the 9th of September and the price listed is £3750.

Happy hunting if it is still available and you are interested.


----------



## tigon_ridge (Sep 13, 2018)

I just experienced a really spooky phenomenon while using a multimeter to measure the outputs of my SRM-252s. After plugging the L300 into the amp and unplugging, if I placed the common lead, hooked to the meter, into one of the four non-bias jacks, _I could still very faintly hear the music through the L300_!! But it's unplugged! It's quiet in the beginning and quickly loses energy, until you can no longer hear anything, over a span of several seconds. I repeated it over and over again, wondering what could be the cause. If I moved away from the amp and meter, the effect quickly wears off, but comes back if I return. This lead me to think it could be an electromagnetic radiation thing. However, when I touched only one of the pins with a finger, the effect would be enhanced (the sound got louder—but was still faint), so my body could somehow be playing a role? Sometimes I heard it more from the left transducer, and sometimes more from the right, but it never seemed to be quite balanced, and it seemed to be independent of which jack is in contact with the lead. The only thing I'm certain about is that by plugging in the earspeakers, you charge the capacitors and diaphragms, which convert the energy into sound as the phenomenon goes on. It seems to lose energy pretty quickly, not unlikely how a resistor-capacitor circuit exponentially loses voltage when the switch is closed.

Also, when I touched all 5 pins at the same time, the effect immediately cut off. Obviously, it was due to my finger serving as a conductor/resistor to drain the capacitors and diaphragms.


----------



## Whitigir

Ghost, and you are into the stage of reaching super human ability to produce music through your psyche!


----------



## tigon_ridge

Whitigir said:


> Ghost, and you are into the stage of reaching super human ability to produce music through your psyche!



lol In all seriousness, I definitely wasn't imagining it. The effect was probably loud enough to record with a microphone, albeit with its sensitivity maxed out.


----------



## purk

I think you can also get a used SRM-007T and turn that into a mini KGST.  Justin certainly can help as well.


----------



## Whitigir

Blissful music with pretty fire flies !! My dark knight !!


----------



## QueueCumber

Whitigir said:


> Blissful music with pretty fire flies !! My dark knight !!



I’m going to use my BHSE to heat my bedroom this winter...


----------



## SeaWo|f

If you have heating needs you may want to look into a megatron..


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Sep 13, 2018)

tigon_ridge said:


> I just experienced a really spooky phenomenon while using a multimeter to measure the outputs of my SRM-252s. After plugging the L300 into the amp and unplugging, if I placed the common lead, hooked to the meter, into one of the four non-bias jacks, _I could still very faintly hear the music through the L300_!! But it's unplugged! It's quiet in the beginning and quickly loses energy, until you can no longer hear anything, over a span of several seconds. I repeated it over and over again, wondering what could be the cause. If I moved away from the amp and meter, the effect quickly wears off, but comes back if I return. This lead me to think it could be an electromagnetic radiation thing. However, when I touched only one of the pins with a finger, the effect would be enhanced (the sound got louder—but was still faint), so my body could somehow be playing a role? Sometimes I heard it more from the left transducer, and sometimes more from the right, but it never seemed to be quite balanced, and it seemed to be independent of which jack is in contact with the lead. The only thing I'm certain about is that by plugging in the earspeakers, you charge the capacitors and diaphragms, which convert the energy into sound as the phenomenon goes on. It seems to lose energy pretty quickly, not unlikely how a resistor-capacitor circuit exponentially loses voltage when the switch is closed.
> 
> Also, when I touched all 5 pins at the same time, the effect immediately cut off. Obviously, it was due to my finger serving as a conductor/resistor to drain the capacitors and diaphragms.



Well, Stax 'phones only need teeny amounts of current to play. And according to this thread on stackexchange, a _changing_ magnetic field, such as the one caused by your AC music signal going through the MM leads, can induce current flow in an "open" circuit, albeit very small amounts, but apparently enough to be audible. Really neat story, thanks for sharing, I had to learn something new to understand it!

Presumably, when you touch the headphone leads and it gets louder, you're just giving the current a path of less resistance than going through the air.

I would guess that the "quickly losing energy" has to do with the bias charge wearing off (being used up?), but I really don't understand what the bias is doing in these headphones.


----------



## Whitigir

Oh my ghost, why is the SR-009 so so good ? (*S*) is also good, but 009 is virtually so natural and neutral, zero coloration in comparisons


----------



## JimL11

DJ The Rocket said:


> What is solid state coloration? No amp is perfect, but I believe plenty are able to keep imperfections below audibility, right?



Sorry, should have been more specific. The 727 sounds a bit dry and grainy to me, compared to the modified T1.


----------



## GarageBoy

Ali-Pacha said:


> Both are Lambda
> LS are way more coloured, with more air, more bass but also less "meat on the bone". Ethereal but never ever agressive.
> LNS have more body and are more neutral, they show flatter FR, less high-mids hump and more extension in the highs, but I find them kinda boring for a Lambda, they lack the gorgeous mids of old stuff...that's why I ended up selling them
> 
> Ali


Any new Stax that are similar, or will I be doomed into hunting for an old LS?


----------



## 336881

GarageBoy said:


> Any new Stax that are similar, or will I be doomed into hunting for an old LS?



It is all about the hunt. I thought most the old and new lambda's left allot to be desired compared to a well driven hd600/650/800 especially in build quality and comfort. Out of a good dozen lambda's on several energizers only 2 really did it for me. The ESP 950 and 404LE. Those 2 lambda's sound amazing and have a decent build quality and comfort.

I have not tried the L series but my headphone intuition does not like what it see's. Mostly the paper thin ear pads on the L-300. That is some HFM stuff to me if not worse.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Just recapped the SRM-1 Mk2.  Sounds sooo much better.  Before it sounded like my HE400i with a different FR...but now...damn.  Very impressive.  Apparently, it's time to invest in a DAC of good quality.  Anybody have suggestions?  I'm hoping to keep it under $300.  Used is fine.


----------



## mulveling

Just be only Stax forever like us, it's fine. We're all fine.


----------



## Pahani

AthenaZephyrian said:


> Just recapped the SRM-1 Mk2.  Sounds sooo much better.  Before it sounded like my HE400i with a different FR...but now...damn.  Very impressive.  Apparently, it's time to invest in a DAC of good quality.  Anybody have suggestions?  I'm hoping to keep it under $300.  Used is fine.



Oh, nice! I'd love to recap my SRM-1 too, but I've never even picked up a soldering iron before >.<


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Pahani said:


> Oh, nice! I'd love to recap my SRM-1 too, but I've never even picked up a soldering iron before >.<


I'd say you should try anyway...but it's a tougher-than-average job.  They bent the pins of the big caps, and you'd need pliers, a solder sucker, and high-wattage iron to get em out.  You'd also need either a multimeter or really good ears to balance the amp after you recap.   I ended up going with the "good ears" option, because the multimeter skitzed out and thought the voltage was rising steadily.


----------



## zolkis

Shortly listened to the Stax 009S driven by the T8000 and was not impressed (I expected more). I even liked the most recent 007 more... But then the T8000 IMHO is not the right amp for the 009(S). Need more time to tell, but well.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Yeah T8000 is not a very good amp, especially for the price.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Rhamnetin said:


> words and stuff.



What's your opinion on the SRM-1 Mk2, when modern caps are installed?  How does it stack up on the scale of stax amp awesomeness?  And thriftiness lol.


----------



## Rhamnetin

AthenaZephyrian said:


> What's your opinion on the SRM-1 Mk2, when modern caps are installed?  How does it stack up on the scale of stax amp awesomeness?  And thriftiness lol.



Don't know honestly, I have not looked into Stax amps very thoroughly. @JimL11 ought to have an excellent answer.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Rhamnetin said:


> Don't know honestly, I have not looked into Stax amps very thoroughly. @JimL11 ought to have an excellent answer.



Ok, thanks anyhow


----------



## SteakWay (Sep 15, 2018)

-


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Well, you're gonna get some harmonic distortion from the scratches, and change FR ever-so-slightly.  I think they'll still function, though, and will sound reasonably close to the original.


----------



## zolkis

AthenaZephyrian said:


> What's your opinion on the SRM-1 Mk2, when modern caps are installed?  How does it stack up on the scale of stax amp awesomeness?  And thriftiness lol.



I think that simple re-capping doesn't make it a better amp (design), max a better sounding same-class amp. I actually side-use an SRM-1 Mk2, recapped, some other parts changed and improved PSU. It's quite powerful, quite dynamic, but also more "rough" than the BHSE. It can definitely drive the 007 Mk1/2/3 and 009. The mods didn't change its basic sound character. At least it doesn't get harder sounding even at max volume. It does the home work pretty well, yet I don't put it on any awesomeness chart, it's probably similar class as the 353X, for me.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

zolkis said:


> I think that simple re-capping doesn't make it a better amp (design), max a better sounding same-class amp. I actually side-use an SRM-1 Mk2, recapped, some other parts changed and improved PSU. It's quite powerful, quite dynamic, but also more "rough" than the BHSE. It can definitely drive the 007 Mk1/2/3 and 009. The mods didn't change its basic sound character. At least it doesn't get harder sounding even at max volume. It does the home work pretty well, yet I don't put it on any awesomeness chart, it's probably similar class as the 353X, for me.



That's fair.  The old caps really congested the sound.  I think I have one of the early units, and the previous owner used the thing a ton, so they were on their last leg, which probably explains the magnitude of the change.  I did an extensive side-by-side of my HE400i and the L300 before hand, and while I can't A/B the old amp against it recapped, I can say that the gap between the setup and the HE400i grew a fair bit post-recap.  Perhaps it didn't jump class, but it sounded much cleaner. 

I got the SRM-1 Mk2 because I couldn't afford the better amps, didn't want the dull sound of the SRM-252S, and heard that the SRM-1 Mk2 compared well to the 353X.  Not because I expected recapping to produce the best amp ever 

What other parts did you change? 

Yes, I wasn't expecting it to go on "best energizers list".  I was joking that all stax energizers (except the 252...) are darn decent compared to typical $100-200 mid-fi units. Pardon me.  I was really asking how it compared to typical lower-grade units.  The comparison to 353X is a good answer.  Thanks


----------



## JimL11 (Sep 16, 2018)

Rhamnetin said:


> Don't know honestly, I have not looked into Stax amps very thoroughly. @JimL11 ought to have an excellent answer.



No experience with the SRM-1 MkII but besides @zolkis, I believe @Ali-Pacha has posted impressions of it.


----------



## miko64

*Questions to the wizards:*

What is actually the *difference between srm 252 and 353*? I thought I read that the have essentially the same circuit with different power supplies? 
If yes - why is srm 252 (perceived) much worse?

Thx

M


----------



## bearFNF (Sep 16, 2018)

miko64 said:


> *Questions to the wizards:*
> 
> What is actually the *difference between srm 252 and 353*? I thought I read that the have essentially the same circuit with different power supplies?
> If yes - why is srm 252 (perceived) much worse?
> ...


Here you go:

●Frequency response:
252s is DC- 35 kHz (40Vr.m.s. output SR-207, when using one unit)
353x is DC - 90kHz (when used with one SR-L series Earspeaker)
●Rated input level:    
252s is125 mV with 100V output
353x is 100mV (at 100V output)
●Maximum input level  both are 30 V r.m.s. with volume at minimum setting
●Gain:  
252s is 58dB
353x is Gain: 60dB
●Total harmonic distortion: 
252s is 0.01% (1 kHz / during 100 V r.m.s. output)
353x is 0.01% or less (with one SR-L500 at 100Vr.m.s. / 1kHz output)
●Input impedance    
252s is 50kΩ (RCA)    
353x is 50kΩ(RCA) / 50k Ω x 2 (XLR)
●Maximum output voltage:   
252s is 280 V r.m.s. / 1 kHz
353x is 400Vr.m.s. / 1kHz
●Standard bias voltage    both are DC580V (PRO bias)
●Power consumption    
252s is DC12V, 4W
353x is 30W
●Temperature range for use    both are Between 0º and 35ºC, max. 90% (no condensation)
●External dimensions    
252s is 132 (W) × 38 (H) × 132 (D) mm (without Knob, Pin jack)
353x is 150 (W) x100 (H) x360 (D) mm (protruding portion included)
●Weight    
252s is 540g
353x is 3.0kg


----------



## JimL11

miko64 said:


> *Questions to the wizards:*
> 
> What is actually the *difference between srm 252 and 353*? I thought I read that the have essentially the same circuit with different power supplies?
> If yes - why is srm 252 (perceived) much worse?
> ...



As BearFNF states, the primary differences between the two is the power supply and the amount of available power. The 252 uses a wall wart 12VDC power supply which is stepped up to HV in the amp, whereas the 353 has a linear HV supply. The step-up process results in an increased noise/hash level.  Also, as indicated by the power consumption, the 252 has much less current in the output stage because its small size doesn't allow for the presence of large heat sinks. The 252 only runs about 2.4 mA output stage current per channel, whereas the 353 runs about 11mA per channel. This means that the 252 has much less reserve.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian (Sep 16, 2018)

Anyone happen to know what the chances of a driver failure/tear are in the L300 headphones?  I get neurotic about these things after having 2 HE400i driver failures....and I know these use a thin membrane.

I'd imagine that the fact that the distance between the tro stator grates is so small helps a lot; there's not as much room for the diazepam (autofill has a mind of its own, I meant diaphragm, but this is entertaining) to bend.


----------



## cjeong

AthenaZephyrian said:


> Anyone happen to know what the chances of a driver failure/tear are in the L300 headphones?  I get neurotic about these things after having 2 HE400i driver failures....and I know these use a thin membrane.
> 
> I'd imagine that the fact that the distance between the tro stator grates is so small helps a lot; there's not as much room for the diazepam (autofill has a mind of its own, I meant diaphragm, but this is entertaining) to bend.


My l300s been going strong for 6 months now. Idk about long term.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

cjeong said:


> My l300s been going strong for 6 months now. Idk about long term.



Hopefully they are like the Lambdas.  Enough of them survive to ebay age that they seem surprisingly sturdy.


----------



## BoogieWoogie

Is it wise this days to buy a SRM-1 MK2 for 400$ or there's better options out there for the money?


----------



## JimL11 (Sep 16, 2018)

AthenaZephyrian said:


> Anyone happen to know what the chances of a driver failure/tear are in the L300 headphones?  I get neurotic about these things after having 2 HE400i driver failures....and I know these use a thin membrane.
> 
> I'd imagine that the fact that the distance between the tro stator grates is so small helps a lot; there's not as much room for the diazepam (autofill has a mind of its own, I meant diaphragm, but this is entertaining) to bend.



Stax have traditionally been very durable. I have an SR-5 from the 1980's and Lamda Nova Signature from the 1990's that are still going strong. HFM on the other hand is not known for long term reliability.



OrcaMarinha said:


> Is it wise this days to buy a SRM-1 MK2 for 400$ or there's better options out there for the money?



SRM-1 Mk2's date from the 1980s, so they all need their electrolytic caps replaced. One issue with all the old amps is that it is likely that if any of the transistors go bad they are probably obsolete. OTOH, that said, they seem to be quite realiable as many are still in use. I like the SRM-T1 series myself but then I'm a bit of a tube guy, and the older models also need electrolytic cap replacement, however modifying them by replacing the plate output resistors with constant current loads makes them capable of driving even the SR-007s for a bargain price.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

JimL11 said:


> Stax have traditionally been very durable. I have an SR-5 from the 1980's and Lamda Nova Signature from the 1990's that are still going strong. HFM on the other hand is not known for long term reliability.



Awesome.  Is it normal to occasionally get a bit of a clicking noise when pressure is applied to the driver housing or the headphones are put on?  It sounds like the diaphragm pushing up against the charges grate or something.  Just wanted to make sure I don't need to be worried.  





> SRM-1 Mk2's date from the 1980s, so they all need their electrolytic caps replaced. One issue with all the old amps is that it is likely that if any of the transistors go bad they are probably obsolete. OTOH, that said, they seem to be quite realiable as many are still in use. I like the SRM-T1 series myself but the older models also need electrolytic cap replacement, and modifying them by replacing the plate output resistors with constant current loads makes them capable of driving even the SR-007s for a bargain price.



Hmm.  Well, if that happens, I guess I'm replacing them...even if it means somehow adapting modern tech...because I can't afford to pitch it and get a new one.  Hope you're right about their durability/life expectancy.


----------



## spacequeen7

I recently acquired SR L-300 LE and couldn't be more disappointed,it seams the headband is too short ,I'm not getting proper seal around my ears since the headband is stretched to the limit
Was wondering if all lambda headbands are the same size ,any way to fix this ?


----------



## DJ The Rocket

JimL11 said:


> its small size doesn't allow for the presence of large heat sinks



Stax heat sinks are serious business. The big ones in my 727 actually get *hot* to the touch -- not just _warm_ -- after the universal feedback mod anyway. I've thought about cutting a hole in the top of the case to install a powered cooling fan!


----------



## DJ The Rocket

spacequeen7 said:


> I recently acquired SR L-300 LE and couldn't be more disappointed,it seams the headband is too short ,I'm not getting proper seal around my ears since the headband is stretched to the limit
> Was wondering if all lambda headbands are the same size ,any way to fix this ?



This sounds like what happened with my SR-407. They had to be stretched so tight over my head I would get headaches. 

I don't know how I fixed it. I pulled both driver cups off of the headband assembly to inspect them, and then I put them back on in exactly the same way they came off (at least as far as I can tell; they match the "before" pictures I snapped before taking them apart). But somehow, after I put them back together, they fit normally.

Is this your first pair of Lambdas?


----------



## spacequeen7

DJ The Rocket said:


> This sounds like what happened with my SR-407. They had to be stretched so tight over my head I would get headaches.
> 
> I don't know how I fixed it. I pulled both driver cups off of the headband assembly to inspect them, and then I put them back on in exactly the same way they came off (at least as far as I can tell; they match the "before" pictures I snapped before taking them apart). But somehow, after I put them back together, they fit normally.
> 
> Is this your first pair of Lambdas?


Yes and I was hoping it would be the last ,I was thinking about pulling the rods out but the problem seems to be width wise (they don't stretch enough to the side) ,  cups only pivot so much
so they only rest above my ears


----------



## VRacer-111 (Sep 16, 2018)

spacequeen7 said:


> Yes and I was hoping it would be the last ,I was thinking about pulling the rods out but the problem seems to be width wise (they don't stretch enough to the side) ,  cups only pivot so much
> so they only rest above my ears



L700 headband arc is the solution...not inexpensive solution though. Better articulation and top of the headband is almost a couple inches taller - you can easily put your hand inbetween the top of the strap and bottom of headband...and maybe even your arm...LOL Also much more relaxed clamp, doesn't squeeze your head tighter than an HD6XX like the stock L300 Limited. L700 pads help as well, noticeably softer than the firm L500 pads the L300 Limited comes with stock.


----------



## spacequeen7 (Sep 16, 2018)

Thank you  ..might as well get L700 at this point , they bumped the price of L300LE ($799 now )


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Sep 16, 2018)

spacequeen7 said:


> Yes and I was hoping it would be the last ,I was thinking about pulling the rods out but the problem seems to be width wise (they don't stretch enough to the side) ,  cups only pivot so much
> so they only rest above my ears



Could you post pictures?

ETA: so we can help figure out what's wrong! Not to point and laugh at the person with the abnormally large head  why would you even think that?


----------



## spacequeen7

DJ The Rocket said:


> Could you post pictures?
> 
> ETA: so we can help figure out what's wrong! Not to point and laugh at the person with the abnormally large head  why would you even think that?



L300LE were send back few days ago,I can get L700's  for around  $1100~$1300 new  so no point reordering L300 LE at this point even tho they are up for grabs again , I'm Rh0negative so more like an alien head (it's highly classified-no pictures)


----------



## SteakWay

Hi, I was wondering how would you be able to tell if an SRD-7 energizer adapter was a normal or pro bias?


----------



## JimL11

SteakWay said:


> Hi, I was wondering how would you be able to tell if an SRD-7 energizer adapter was a normal or pro bias?



Pretty simple. If the socket has 6 holes including a center hole it is normal bias, if it only has 5 holes with no center hole it is pro bias.


----------



## GarageBoy

If nothing weird was modified - 5 pin is pro (no center pin) 6 is standard


----------



## SteakWay

JimL11 said:


> Pretty simple. If the socket has 6 holes including a center hole it is normal bias, if it only has 5 holes with no center hole it is pro bias.


Hmm okay, thanks. I’m buying an SR-507 along with a SRD-7. The SRD-7 _seems _to have the 6 pins, which I believe the SR-507 has 5. 

He selling the combo for $400 which seems to be a pretty good deal. I also have a pair of original normal bias lambdas with no amplifier so I could use it to test those out and possibly sell that combo. 

If I do though then I’d need a new amp. I have an Outlaw Audio RR2150 amp. Are there any modern energizers?


----------



## cjeong

SteakWay said:


> Hmm okay, thanks. I’m buying an SR-507 along with a SRD-7. The SRD-7 _seems _to have the 6 pins, which I believe the SR-507 has 5.
> 
> He selling the combo for $400 which seems to be a pretty good deal. I also have a pair of original normal bias lambdas with no amplifier so I could use it to test those out and possibly sell that combo.
> 
> If I do though then I’d need a new amp. I have an Outlaw Audio RR2150 amp. Are there any modern energizers?


There is the Woo Wee which people have said and theoretically proved that burns up the diaphragm of an ear speaker. However, I’ve never heard about this actually happening. The Spritzer energizer also seems fine, but I’ve never heard anything about it. The Audiovalve verto is also an energizer that can power dynamic headphones. The ifi iESL is also another option, but at ~$1500, I’d just get a dedicated amplifier.


----------



## zolkis

SteakWay said:


> Hmm okay, thanks. I’m buying an SR-507 along with a SRD-7. The SRD-7 _seems _to have the 6 pins, which I believe the SR-507 has 5.
> He selling the combo for $400 which seems to be a pretty good deal. I also have a pair of original normal bias lambdas with no amplifier so I could use it to test those out and possibly sell that combo.
> If I do though then I’d need a new amp. I have an Outlaw Audio RR2150 amp. Are there any modern energizers?



You might like more your SR-Lambda, and it goes well with the SRD-7 (non-pro) + any power amp. You can compare it to the SR-507 (which will sound slightly different and quieter from the Normal bias than from a Pro bias socket) and eventually sell either the SR-Lambda+SRD-7 and buy an energizer, or keep them and sell the SR-507. I would likely go with the SRD-7 + SR-Lambda + eventually L700 pads (later, when you need to change pads), but your ears and your choice.


----------



## purk (Sep 21, 2018)

Has anyone here tried out the SRM-D50 & D10?  The D50 works very well with the SR009, not quite the Aristaeus or KGSSHV Carbon + X-Sabre Pro level, but is very respectable.  Well done Stax!  The D10 also impressed me quite a bit.  To my ears, both the D50 &D10 were voiced to work well with the SR009.


----------



## chinsettawong

I tried D10 a few days ago and really liked it.  I will probably get one.


----------



## rpeebles

I use the D10 with the L-700. Like the sound & portability !


----------



## zolkis

I heard the D50 with the 009S and 007, I liked it more than the T8000, but that doesn't mean much at all .

The question is does one want this exact package or rather a separate DAC (e.g. Topping D10 with similar ES9018  or D50 with ES9038) + second hand energizer.


----------



## Pokemonn (Sep 22, 2018)

Wow I just found the reason why my Stax systems couldn’t sound like good old 80’s Stax sound in my home.

It was main power breakers loosen and bad contacted tap screws! My house is over 30 years old house.

I just loosen a bit/re-tightend up them very hard.

Wow just Wow!

It sounds Utterly Creamy and Ultra Real! Good old Stax sound came back in my home!

As you know, any contact points of any electric circuits are MOST unreliable parts among all/any electronic parts/cuircuits.

and any old/bad contact points have wrong resistance. If current run resistance it makes voltage = noises.

E(main power noise voltage) = I(all home electronics total high current) * R (old/bad contact point resistance)

Its simple Ohm’s law and law of Physics.
you may remember that Robb Watts of Chord said -180dB or -300dB mains noise are audible...In his opinion not mine Lol.

warning. I absolutely don’t recommend DIY re-tighned up tap screws of main brakers. it can be very dangerous! Let professionals do it.

hope this some newbies helps.
happy listening!


Rob mentioned about power cord diffrences in this video.


----------



## SteakWay

Well I finally got an SRD-7 to pair with my Lambdas. Turns out I have a pretty big channel imbalance. I’ll try to blow some dust off the driver later today to see if that helps. Does resoldering the connections help as well?


----------



## bearFNF

SteakWay said:


> Well I finally got an SRD-7 to pair with my Lambdas. Turns out I have a pretty big channel imbalance. I’ll try to blow some dust off the driver later today to see if that helps. Does resoldering the connections help as well?


Did you try your 507s to make sure it is not the SRD7 that is causing the issue? If not, I would try that before messing with the lambdas.


----------



## SteakWay

bearFNF said:


> Did you try your 507s to make sure it is not the SRD7 that is causing the issue? If not, I would try that before messing with the lambdas.


Well I bought an SRD-7 off of eBay. It turns out that the 507 was actually just another original Lambda, the owner just didn’t know what he had.

Also I’m certain that it’s the headphones because the driver casing was actually open when I recieved them.


----------



## Eich1eeF

Pokemonn said:


> and any old/bad contact points have wrong resistance. If current run resistance it makes voltage = noises.
> 
> E(main power noise voltage) = I(all home electronics total high current) * R (old/bad contact point resistance)
> 
> Its simple Ohm’s law and law of Physics.


But you're not applying it correctly. the only thing that happens if you effectively insert a resistor into your mains connection is that the Voltage drops - it remains as perfect or imperfect a sine curve as it was without the resistor. The E you get there is just the voltage drop, and it does not manifest in noise. If you want to discuss resistors and noise, that's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson–Nyquist_noise and it depends on temperature and has a constant depending on the specific resistor.



> you may remember that Robb Watts of Chord said -180dB or -300dB mains noise are audible...In his opinion not mine Lol.


Yea, if you actually listened to what he said on mains cables, he expicitly explains that their influence is mainly through RF noise that enters the device and creates intermodulation products. So he's talking about signals with frequencies of at least tens or hundreds of kiloherz, while the Ohm's law "noise" you're talking about is at exactly 0 Hz. To reduce this noise, just add a ferrite core to your power cables.

If you can hear the difference in resistance due to loose connections in your fuse box, you should really replace the fuse box, because it's probably a fire hazard.


----------



## bearFNF

SteakWay said:


> Well I bought an SRD-7 off of eBay. It turns out that the 507 was actually just another original Lambda, the owner just didn’t know what he had.
> 
> Also I’m certain that it’s the headphones because the driver casing was actually open when I recieved them.


Ack...that's not good. Hope you got a good deal...or can get some money back for not getting what you expected.


----------



## Pokemonn (Sep 22, 2018)

Eich1eeF said:


> But you're not applying it correctly. the only thing that happens if you effectively insert a resistor into your mains connection is that the Voltage drops - it remains as perfect or imperfect a sine curve as it was without the resistor. The E you get there is just the voltage drop, and it does not manifest in noise. If you want to discuss resistors and noise, that's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson–Nyquist_noise and it depends on temperature and has a constant depending on the specific resistor.
> 
> Yea, if you actually listened to what he said on mains cables, he expicitly explains that their influence is mainly through RF noise that enters the device and creates intermodulation products. So he's talking about signals with frequencies of at least tens or hundreds of kiloherz, while the Ohm's law "noise" you're talking about is at exactly 0 Hz. To reduce this noise, just add a ferrite core to your power cables.
> 
> If you can hear the difference in resistance due to loose connections in your fuse box, you should really replace the fuse box, because it's probably a fire hazard.



probablly i need more time to read your post to understand LOL.
but i guess if home electoronics equipments(1kW Air conditioner etc) create huge noisy currents and they run turu resistance, then it create RF noise like voltage noises, I guess?


----------



## Eich1eeF

Pokemonn said:


> but i guess if home electoronics equipments(1kW Air conditioner etc) create huge noisy currents and they run turu resistance, then it create RF noise like voltage noises, I guess?


Well, they do probably create RF noise, but their electric motors also distort the the pretty sine of the mains voltage. Resistors are just linear, they can't add or remove this kind of distortion - they basically just multiply the incoming mains waveform with a constant factor. If you can actually hear in your audio rig if the AC is on or off, have an electrician install a mains filter for the AC. If you have 3 phase power, see to that it's on a separate phase from your audio equipment. Regarding over the air RF noise, I would expect the FCC or equivalent local agency to show up on your doorstep if that was too bad. Just see to that the enclosure or internal shielding is closed and grounded as the manufacturer prescribes.


----------



## Pokemonn

Eich1eeF said:


> Well, they do probably create RF noise, but their electric motors also distort the the pretty sine of the mains voltage. Resistors are just linear, they can't add or remove this kind of distortion - they basically just multiply the incoming mains waveform with a constant factor. If you can actually hear in your audio rig if the AC is on or off, have an electrician install a mains filter for the AC. If you have 3 phase power, see to that it's on a separate phase from your audio equipment. Regarding over the air RF noise, I would expect the FCC or equivalent local agency to show up on your doorstep if that was too bad. Just see to that the enclosure or internal shielding is closed and grounded as the manufacturer prescribes.


ok Thanks a lot. Thats what i meant. anyway thank you for your advices.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

@Eich1eeF great posts!


----------



## Pokemonn (Sep 26, 2018)

Yes! I just install Audio Technica AC noise filter(over -40dB reduction) between PS Audio power plant P3 and Rigs.
and install RCA short pins on all rigs.I got a hint from his Air RF noise advice.
wow super creamy yummy Class A sound!  Thanks a lot @Eich1eeF!


----------



## Hubert481

purk said:


> Has anyone here tried out the SRM-D50 & D10?  The D50 works very well with the SR009, not quite the Aristaeus or KGSSHV Carbon + X-Sabre Pro level, but is very respectable.  Well done Stax!  The D10 also impressed me quite a bit.  To my ears, both the D50 &D10 were voiced to work well with the SR009.


What did you miss on the d50 compared to Carbon ?
Which one was better d10 or d50 ?


----------



## Whitigir

Why is tubes glows so addictive and is a wonderful sight ?


----------



## oneguy

Whitigir said:


> Why is tubes glows so addictive and is a wonderful sight ?



Because it’s like gift of fire to audiophiles!


----------



## mulveling

Whitigir said:


> Why is tubes glows so addictive and is a wonderful sight ?


A carry-over instinct from our primal ancestors, when the warm orange glow of a fire meant killing pathogens in our food, fending off wolves, and not freezing to death


----------



## alota (Sep 29, 2018)

In your opinion the new srm d50 drives the 009?
Thank you


----------



## astrostar59




----------



## oneguy

astrostar59 said:


>


Fire!


----------



## wink

...


----------



## Whitigir

wink said:


> ...



Dude....I never understand why people got addicted by Cat video clips and gif....don’t you start it for me...LoL


----------



## Hubert481

Ok, you dont like cats
Do you like dogs?
Or do you like beer?


----------



## Whitigir

Hubert481 said:


> Ok, you dont like cats
> Do you like dogs?
> Or do you like beer?


Roflmao, oh my...I want to see his reaction after this X_X


----------



## purk (Sep 30, 2018)

alota said:


> In your opinion the new srm d50 drives the 009?
> Thank you



It does a good job but something like the KGSSHV will be a better all around solution.  Still I was very impressed with what the D50 can do with the 009.  I really want to keep it, but decide against having it because I have better amplifiers to do the same job.  The D50 has a warm and relaxing sound which has proven to work well with the original 009.  According to Justin, the D50 is a reworked SRM-717 with less power.  Basically a 353X with a built in DAC.  The onboard DAC is good but not great, but for an all in one package for an audiophile in budget...I recommend it.  The D50 should work well with Lambda as well.


----------



## alota

purk said:


> It does a good job but something like the KGSSHV will be a better all around solution.  Still I was very impressed with what the D50 can do with the 009.  I really want to keep it, but decide against having it because I have better amplifiers to do the same job.  The D50 has a warm and relaxing sound which has proven to work well with the original 009.  According to Justin, the D50 is a reworked SRM-717 with less power.  Basically a 353X with a built in DAC.  The onboard DAC is good but not great, but for an all in one package for an audiophile in budget...I recommend it.  The D50 should work well with Lambda as well.


Thank you for your opinion. Of course i understand that kg design amplifiers are better but are more expensive and my budget is small. I heard the 009 some years ago when my taste was different. Now i'm thinking to try again this headphone


----------



## wink

Whitigir said:


> Roflmao, oh my...I want to see his reaction after this X_X








..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..


----------



## BenF

So... Who else travels with their electrostats?


----------



## purk

BenF said:


> So... Who else travels with their electrostats?



With the SRM-D10, I can and will.


----------



## chinsettawong

BenF said:


> So... Who else travels with their electrostats?


I do all the time.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Don't think I'd enjoy the SRM-D10 enough so I'll refrain from it. I wouldn't want to travel with Birgir's KGSSHV Mini.


----------



## BenF

chinsettawong said:


> I do all the time.


Pics or it didn't happen


----------



## chinsettawong

BenF said:


> Pics or it didn't happen


No pictures to show yet, but I don’t take so many phones with me like you.  I only take along one of my DIY phones (normally Orpheus clone) and a small Stax amp, SRM252S.


----------



## chinsettawong

Found it!


----------



## purk

Your Orpheus clone sounds amazing !!  How do you like the 252S?  Do you run it off battery?


----------



## BenF

chinsettawong said:


> Found it!




Orpheus (even a DIY one) with 252S???
If Axel Grell was dead, he'd be spinning in his grave at neck-breaking speed right now.
He is probably burping non-stop now.

Nice pic though!

Who else is crazy enough to travel with estats?


----------



## chinsettawong

purk said:


> Your Orpheus clone sounds amazing !!  How do you like the 252S?  Do you run it off battery?


No, I don’t.


----------



## Hubert481

Haha - 2 questions - one answer - Bingo!


----------



## chinsettawong (Oct 3, 2018)

Oops, sorry!  252S sounds just OK.  I really don’t expect much from this little amp.  And no, I don’t run it off a battery pack.


----------



## BenF

chinsettawong said:


> Found it!


I'll see your beer, and raise you some caviar 



If anyone was wondering, red caviar works best with L300, black with Perun. Pro 82s are less picky, any caviar will do 
Not that anyone really was wondering...


----------



## SteakWay

zolkis said:


> You might like more your SR-Lambda, and it goes well with the SRD-7 (non-pro) + any power amp. You can compare it to the SR-507 (which will sound slightly different and quieter from the Normal bias than from a Pro bias socket) and eventually sell either the SR-Lambda+SRD-7 and buy an energizer, or keep them and sell the SR-507. I would likely go with the SRD-7 + SR-Lambda + eventually L700 pads (later, when you need to change pads), but your ears and your choice.


So I got a new pair of the original Lambda’s in excellent condition, even the yellow foam on the outside of the driver is in great shape.

If I want to decide to change the pads to the L700 pads, is there anything I need to know? Will I need to glue them myself? Will they be the exact same size? Are there any known differences in sound? Is the comfort increase worth the price?

Thanks!


----------



## cjeong

SteakWay said:


> So I got a new pair of the original Lambda’s in excellent condition, even the yellow foam on the outside of the driver is in great shape.
> 
> If I want to decide to change the pads to the L700 pads, is there anything I need to know? Will I need to glue them myself? Will they be the exact same size? Are there any known differences in sound? Is the comfort increase worth the price?
> 
> Thanks!


SR-L700 has a different pad mounting system than the SR-Lambda, which means that they won’t work unless you remove the pad from the plastic underlay and glue it onto the driver. Honestly, SR-507 pads would work way better.


----------



## catscratch

That and the shape of the pads is different, L700 uses square pads and the older style pads were contoured. Also the older style Lambdas have a very different driver angle and mounting new pads on them will probably change the driver angle from what the original design.

Basically, use older style pads.


----------



## SteakWay

cjeong said:


> SR-L700 has a different pad mounting system than the SR-Lambda, which means that they won’t work unless you remove the pad from the plastic underlay and glue it onto the driver. Honestly, SR-507 pads would work way better.





catscratch said:


> That and the shape of the pads is different, L700 uses square pads and the older style pads were contoured. Also the older style Lambdas have a very different driver angle and mounting new pads on them will probably change the driver angle from what the original design.
> 
> Basically, use older style pads.


Gotcha so SR-507 pads. If the original pads are in good shape is it worth changing them still? They feel fine, but I don’t have the new ones to compare to.


----------



## catscratch

That depends. Older style Lambdas should create a seal between the headphone and your head. This seal affects the quality and quantity of the bass. If the bass sounds linear and you can hear down to below 30hz, then the pads are probably fine. But if there's a bump in the bass response around 70-100hz and a steep rolloff below 50hz then that's a classic case of the seal not being good. In this case changing pads may be advisable, but you have to be sure that the new pads will also seal properly. They may not.

Some headphones also will make crinkling noises from the drivers when you push in on the headphones while they're on your head. This is from the pressure inside the earcup moving the diaphragm, and a sign that the headphones are sealing correctly. However I don't know if first-gen Lambdas do that. I think I remember my SR-404 doing that? I'm not sure, it's been 15 years.

Also wearing glasses will interfere with the seal and may affect bass response, depending on how thick the rims are. Lastly, some people prefer the sound without a good seal, and Stax has started designing its headphones this way on purpose in some cases, like the newer Lambdas.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

SteakWay said:


> Gotcha so SR-507 pads. If the original pads are in good shape is it worth changing them still? They feel fine, but I don’t have the new ones to compare to.


Original pads are better than 507's ones, even if the latter are leather : 507's pads are too thin and too soft IMO.
Go get SR-207 pads whenever you have to change them on Lambda / Lambda Pro (and even Signature..too bad for the colour  )

Ali


----------



## Don Quichotte

SteakWay said:


> So I got a new pair of the original Lambda’s in excellent condition, even the yellow foam on the outside of the driver is in great shape.
> 
> Are there any known differences in sound?


Yellow foam? Shouldn't it be grey? Maybe it changed color in time, although my 14 years old's SR-303 didn't. What about the foam on the inside of the driver, the one that is actually a part of the pad?

In my experience, the pads do influence the sound quite a lot. New pads are not necessarily better sound wise (see below).



catscratch said:


> That depends. Older style Lambdas should create a seal between the headphone and your head. This seal affects the quality and quantity of the bass. If the bass sounds linear and you can hear down to below 30hz, then the pads are probably fine. But if there's a bump in the bass response around 70-100hz and a steep rolloff below 50hz then that's a classic case of the seal not being good.
> 
> Lastly, some people prefer the sound without a good seal, and Stax has started designing its headphones this way on purpose in some cases, like the newer Lambdas.



So the new style Lambdas all have this uneven bass and limited extension? Sorry if this is common knowledge. I definitely prefer to have a good seal on my 303's, breaking the seal makes the sound loose much of it's charm! Still, the SR-L 700 are highly regarded...



Ali-Pacha said:


> Original pads are better than 507's ones, even if the later are leather : 507's pads are too thin and too soft IMO.
> Go get SR-207 pads whenever you have to change them on Lambda / Lambda Pro (and even Signature..too bad for the colour  )



The SR-307 / 407 pads have been a clear downgrade from my original SR-303 pads with open cell foam not only in terms of comfort (they are thinner) but also sound. However, at least one member here switched a few years ago from the originals to SR-507 pads and found them to sound better (while also agreeing with me that SR-307/407 pads sound worse). Never heard the 207 pads...


----------



## catscratch (Oct 5, 2018)

Don Quichotte said:


> So the new style Lambdas all have this uneven bass and limited extension? Sorry if this is common knowledge. I definitely prefer to have a good seal on my 303's, breaking the seal makes the sound loose much of it's charm! Still, the SR-L 700 are highly regarded...



To varying extents, yes. All the new Lambdas do this. The L700 shows a bit less of this behavior and extends a little bit deeper than the L300/L500. However the measurements I've seen so far aren't all consistent, with some showing the roll-off and some not. Nevertheless the consensus seems to be that the new Lambdas are lossy by design.

I think the L700's advantage over the L300/500 is in the pads, since mounting those pads on the L300LE and measuring bass extension vs the stock pads shows an improvement in extension and a very similar bass response to the L700.

Despite this bass behavior I would say that the L700 is comfortably ahead of the old SR-404 I had, with a fuller sound, a more natural midrange, and a better and more 3-dimensional soundstage. It's highly regarded for a reason - it's really good.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Don Quichotte said:


> Yellow foam? Shouldn't it be grey? Maybe it changed color in time, although my 14 years old's SR-303 didn't.


Yes, yellow foam. I've had two original Lambdas in my hand, I got rid of this crippling foam and did replace it with train modelism foam cut with the perfect form factor : https://www.amazon.fr/Noch-Modélisme-Ferroviaire-Plaques-mousse-Pièces/dp/B0002I0CBM


Don Quichotte said:


> So the new style Lambdas all have this uneven bass and limited extension? Sorry if this is common knowledge. I definitely prefer to have a good seal on my 303's, breaking the seal makes the sound loose much of it's charm! Still, the SR-L 700 are highly regarded...


The best Lambda looking at bass extension are original Lambda Signature IMO, with original a bit stiff (and deep) pads...as long as you have a good seal, which is trickier with those pads.
Maybe a Lambda Nova Signature could beat Lambda Sig with the same pads, but never did the mod.
All SR-x0x have more energy all around, especially in the high mids (which sounds sometimes screechy to my ears), but definitely not as much bass extension as Lambda Sig and Lambda Pro. TBD with original Lambda.
SR-L700 are leaky by design (same story as SR-007mk2/A), so good low mids bump, which makes them sound dynamic, but less extension down low.


Don Quichotte said:


> The SR-307 / 407 pads have been a clear downgrade from my original SR-303 pads with open cell foam not only in terms of comfort (they are thinner) but also sound. However, at least one member here switched a few years ago from the originals to SR-507 pads and found them to sound better (while also agreeing with me that SR-307/407 pads sound worse). Never heard the 207 pads...


You're right, SR-307/407 have mediocre pads compared to 303/404 (and Nova range), let alone compared to original Lambdas.
I really don't like 507 pads, too soft and too thin. The more expensive is not always the best 

Ali


----------



## bwck2000

In the transition from 404 to 407, earpad design changes with them. The 407 stock pad has a thicker and more wrinkled leather with a black plastic covering at the back. I tend to sweat more when I'm wearing the 407 stock pad so the 404 stock pads are more comfortable. I have two on my two 4070 . Didn't make a detailed comparison on the two type of pafs soundwise tho.

But IMO the 207 pads are free from this problem.


----------



## Kwangsun

Hello,

long time member here. I have owned a lot of headphones at this point, IEMs, CIEMs and such. But only now have I finally had the chance to purchase a pair of STAX headphones. I got the SR-L500/SRM-323s combo used for a price too good to pass up. I have to say that they pair have been subtle but noticeable in their influence. At first I did feel that they were cleaner and more lively than other headphones in my collection but nothing too special. But once I started to spend more time on them the more I have noticed that dynamics just don't do it for me anymore - too slow and muddled. In short, the STAX are amazing. 

However, the experience has been short lived as I accidentally dropped them and broke the speaker holder on the right side. It's literally in pieces and the right speaker is just dangling off the cable. Any suggestion as to where I might find a replacement? I came across the electromod website that sells parts for STAX but can't seem to check out. 

If there is anyone here who knows where I can source this part please let me know. As I would hate to pay 180USD for the entire headband assembly from STAX.

Thanks to everyone in advance.


----------



## tigon_ridge (Oct 7, 2018)

Kwangsun said:


> Hello,
> 
> long time member here. I have owned a lot of headphones at this point, IEMs, CIEMs and such. But only now have I finally had the chance to purchase a pair of STAX headphones. I got the SR-L500/SRM-323s combo used for a price too good to pass up. I have to say that they pair have been subtle but noticeable in their influence. At first I did feel that they were cleaner and more lively than other headphones in my collection but nothing too special. But once I started to spend more time on them the more I have noticed that dynamics just don't do it for me anymore - too slow and muddled. In short, the STAX are amazing.
> 
> ...



Shoe Goo, my friend. Shoe Goo. It is the magic fix you're looking for, as it is indeed magical. The thicker the layer of Shoe Goo you plaster on, the stronger the reinforcement; and it may become even stronger than ever before. Get the transparent one. It may affect the aesthetic a bit, but it beats paying $180. You're welcome.


----------



## Kwangsun

tigon_ridge said:


> Shoe Goo, my friend. Shoe Goo. It is the magic fix you're looking for, as it is indeed magical. The thicker the layer of Shoe Goo you plaster on, the stronger the reinforcement; and it may become even stronger than ever before. Get the transparent one. It may affect the aesthetic a bit, but it beats paying $180. You're welcome.



Thanks tigon_ridge!

Actually found the exact part on electromod. The price of shoe goo is insane where I am so it made more sense to buy the part instead. Thank god.


----------



## biscottino

I had a close encounter with two new Stax products, the srm D50 and the srm D10.
They drove without delay my new stax 009s with fluency and authority, surely the Hugo2 source is excellent and shines for quality.
Playing the srm d50 with a mechanical Lector and coaxial cable Ecosse, I found a very classy sound.
Construction, packaging quality and endowment are first class, the new Stax course starts well, very well.


----------



## biscottino

Some photos of the interior of the d50, to you the comment.


----------



## purk

biscottino said:


> I had a close encounter with two new Stax products, the srm D50 and the srm D10.
> They drove without delay my new stax 009s with fluency and authority, surely the Hugo2 source is excellent and shines for quality.
> Playing the srm d50 with a mechanical Lector and coaxial cable Ecosse, I found a very classy sound.
> Construction, packaging quality and endowment are first class, the new Stax course starts well, very well.



I was playing with both and decided to keep the D10 b/c it fits my needs better.  The D50 internal DAC is a little soft sounding but feeding it with a good source and the SRM-D50 is capable of a very good sound.  

What do you think of the D10?


----------



## biscottino

purk said:


> I was playing with both and decided to keep the D10 b/c it fits my needs better.  The D50 internal DAC is a little soft sounding but feeding it with a good source and the SRM-D50 is capable of a very good sound.
> 
> What do you think of the D10?


soon to say, I played for a while, I'm waiting for a couple of Audioquest rca / minijack cables to try hugo2 better, and then I'll play better, but so out of the box it seemed to me already very good.


----------



## Hubert481

Do you also have sharper more detailed inside pics?


----------



## biscottino (Oct 11, 2018)

This


----------



## SteakWay

Well, I want to thank everyone here who gave me some advice and help with my original normal bias Stax. Unfortunately, I've come to the realization that they are not for me. If I only used headphones, they would be great, but I use them as more of a complimentary piece to my speakers, and using Stax feels redundant. I'll sell these and go back to my first pair of good headphones which I regret selling in the first place, the LCD-2.

I've place two pairs of the original Stax normal bias up for sale in the classifieds if anyone is interested. One is in stone-mint condition and one has a channel imbalance problem. When fixing the channel imbalance with the amp, the two sound identical. The price reflects the issue.


----------



## staticdynamo

New Model SR-009 BK. 80th Anniversary Model. https://stax-international.com/products/sr-009bk/


----------



## Ali-Pacha

SteakWay said:


> Well, I want to thank everyone here who gave me some advice and help with my original normal bias Stax. Unfortunately, I've come to the realization that they are not for me. If I only used headphones, they would be great, but I use them as more of a complimentary piece to my speakers, and using Stax feels redundant. I'll sell these and go back to my first pair of good headphones which I regret selling in the first place, the LCD-2.
> 
> I've place two pairs of the original Stax normal bias up for sale in the classifieds if anyone is interested. One is in stone-mint condition and one has a channel imbalance problem. When fixing the channel imbalance with the amp, the two sound identical. The price reflects the issue.


Hey, it's my Lambda's Frequency Response you're showing in your classified 

Ali


----------



## SteakWay

Ali-Pacha said:


> Hey, it's my Lambda's Frequency Response you're showing in your classified
> 
> Ali


Oh how cool! It seems you were a part of that SABF thread as well. Thanks for that. Super comprehensive.


----------



## Rhamnetin

staticdynamo said:


> New Model SR-009 BK. 80th Anniversary Model. https://stax-international.com/products/sr-009bk/



Pretty!


----------



## Ali-Pacha

SteakWay said:


> Oh how cool! It seems you were a part of that SABF thread as well. Thanks for that. Super comprehensive.


Since then, BHSE did arrive, SRM-727II modded gone, as well as SR-X/mk3Pro (collection's piece...but on-ear) and LNS / SR-007mk1 (too dull / boring for my tastes). Baby Orpheus / HE-60 in da house for 2 weeks, god I love those 

Ali


----------



## HoloSpice

staticdynamo said:


> New Model SR-009 BK. 80th Anniversary Model. https://stax-international.com/products/sr-009bk/


Lol!!! Stax one upping Hifiman again.


----------



## alota

from stax site seems that the limited version driver has technology of future top headphone from stax:

“Super-engineering-plastics” diaphragm 
The diaphragm material “super engineering plastic ” inherited by next higher rank models has been adopted for the sound unit. Materials excelled especially in tone quality have been selected for the extremely thin high polymer film diaphragm developed by refining the conventional engineering plastic, resulting in extremely excellent frequency characteristics from low to very high as well as vast dynamic range.


----------



## pegasus21

It doesn't tell you a lot since the 009 has the "super engineering plastics" too but it is described a bit differently


----------



## koven

Looks good in black, wonder what the price will be ..


----------



## pegasus21

koven said:


> Looks good in black, wonder what the price will be ..



The Japanese price for 009 is 370K JPY while the 009BK is 380K JPY so you can estimate costs from there.


----------



## alota

pegasus21 said:


> It doesn't tell you a lot since the 009 has the "super engineering plastics" too but it is described a bit differently


It´s mystical engineering plastics


----------



## Kwangsun

Pft. Super plastics is so yesterday. Just make it out of adamantium. Cheapskates.


----------



## mulveling

Huh, interesting. With me sorta leaning a bit back towards 009 vs. 009S on my T2 lately (at best still a wash), maybe I should sell the 009S and pickup this sweet limited 009 "Barack"? Kinda silly if there's literally nothing different about this than a standard 009 besides color, though.


----------



## Jones Bob

alota said:


> It´s mystical engineering plastics


----------



## SeaWo|f

Super this, super that.. Stax needs to commit and go full on 80s and print "009 turbo" across the head band and give it a red racing stripe.


----------



## Hubert481

Jones Bob said:


>



Combine plastic with blue light - this is perfect for high end


----------



## VandyMan

alota said:


> from stax site seems that the limited version driver has technology of future top headphone from stax:
> 
> “Super-engineering-plastics” diaphragm
> The diaphragm material “super engineering plastic ” inherited by next higher rank models has been adopted for the sound unit. Materials excelled especially in tone quality have been selected for the extremely thin high polymer film diaphragm developed by refining the conventional engineering plastic, resulting in extremely excellent frequency characteristics from low to very high as well as vast dynamic range.



The brochure says it is IDENTICAL to the 009 (not the S) except the color.


----------



## staticdynamo

After reading the SR-009BK page briefly, The cable is the same as SR-009S and SR-L700 .
Other parts seems the same as SR-009 (except the color). Anyway I don't know about it
in detail. I will ask STAX person at some events.  https://stax-international.com/products/sr-009bk/


----------



## VandyMan

That page does make it sound like there are differences. However, they posted an image to Facebook that says "New Product News 2018-10" on the top right. In the middle, it says "--Same as SR-009--" and the specifications match. The weight, including the cable, is the same too. The color is cool though.


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

Yahello! I have a question for everyone. I plan on selling my L700 here shortly and upgrading to the 009S. What would be the best way to go about shipping them, should I put them in an anti-static bag that is zip tied closed? (Maybe closed some other way?) Possibly  put some Silica gel in there? Any help on the matter would be much appreciated. If it matters at all I live in an area where its getting pretty cold around this time of year and they most likely wont see any air travel.


----------



## oneguy

AwzemCoffee said:


> Yahello! I have a question for everyone. I plan on selling my L700 here shortly and upgrading to the 009S. What would be the best way to go about shipping them, should I put them in an anti-static bag that is zip tied closed? (Maybe closed some other way?) Possibly  put some Silica gel in there? Any help on the matter would be much appreciated. If it matters at all I live in an area where its getting pretty cold around this time of year and they most likely wont see any air travel.



Enjoy the upgrade! I’m looking at moving up in about 3-4 years once my other planned upgrades are finished. 

I think the your idea way of using an anti static bag is more than adequate. I wouldnt zip tie it close though as you don’t want moisture to stay in there during large temperature changes. The L700 comes from Stax in what appears to be a normal plastic bag which is then placers in a molded styrofoam enclosure with cardboard on the outside for the box. Replicating anything along those lines should be fine.


----------



## tigon_ridge (Oct 13, 2018)

No anti-static anything is necessary. These aren't microchips you're shipping. It would takes several hundreds of million volts for an arc to form between the diaphragm and whatever, since your headphones will be (hopefully) encased in a box. Heck, the intel CPU I bought 3 years ago didn't come with an anti-static bag.


----------



## Eich1eeF

AwzemCoffee said:


> What would be the best way to go about shipping them, should I put them in an anti-static bag that is zip tied closed?


I don't think an anti-static bag is needed for stax headphones. Anti-static precautions are for devices that operate with low voltages (usually the 1-5V in modern micro electronic devices) and are damaged by the high voltage of static discharges. I would assume that the limited energy in usual static discharges will not be able to charge the stators anywhere near a damaging voltage, since they do have a significant capacity.


----------



## Eich1eeF

tigon_ridge said:


> It would takes several hundreds of million volts for an arc to form between the diaphragm and whatever


It's only 3kV/mm, and the stators are about 0.35mm apart. So ~1000V would risk arcing, if one applied that with enough energy e.g. to the right pins on the plug. Static discharge should have the voltage, but not the energy to damage Stax headphones.


----------



## catscratch

Just double box them and add a lot of packing peanuts or some sort of padding. Stax headphones don't like hard impacts. Make sure you use the original styrofoam packaging for the headphones themselves. Other than that, it's the same as anything else.


----------



## tigon_ridge

Eich1eeF said:


> It's only 3kV/mm, and the stators are about 0.35mm apart. So ~1000V would risk arcing, if one applied that with enough energy e.g. to the right pins on the plug. Static discharge should have the voltage, but not the energy to damage Stax headphones.



Don't forget that the headphones are encased in a box, within some packing material, within another box. All of that material would have to accumulate a lot of charge, which is near impossibility. Also, no, the stators cannot be charged in the way you suggested, as it is well insulated from the surrounding. Someone would have to deliberately hook the headphones into a device to charge the stators.


----------



## Eich1eeF

tigon_ridge said:


> Don't forget that the headphones are encased in a box, within some packing material, within another box. All of that material would have to accumulate a lot of charge, which is near impossibility.


That is correct, and it is really nor a problem that antistatic bags are made to deal with, because it just isn't a problem in reality. They are made to protect against discharges after the devices have been taken out of the box, e.g. after you've been dragging your feet over the carpet on the way from the door to the living room, or simply by removing the device from a non-antistatic bag.



> Also, no, the stators cannot be charged in the way you suggested, as it is well insulated from the surrounding. Someone would have to deliberately hook the headphones into a device to charge the stators.


I'm afraid you're mistaken. Static discharge has high enough voltage to happily arc through the isolation of the cable if that just happens to be the first thing the you even come close to. The same applies to touching the contacts of the plug. The stators are big enough capacitors and can handle high enough voltages that they don't care. However, I've killed my fair share of computer mice by static discharges through their enclosure - from the top, not the bottom.


----------



## Zoide (Oct 16, 2018)

JimL11 said:


> As BearFNF states, the primary differences between the two is the power supply and the amount of available power. The 252 uses a wall wart 12VDC power supply which is stepped up to HV in the amp, whereas the 353 has a linear HV supply. The step-up process results in an increased noise/hash level.  Also, as indicated by the power consumption, the 252 has much less current in the output stage because its small size doesn't allow for the presence of large heat sinks. The 252 only runs about 2.4 mA output stage current per channel, whereas the 353 runs about 11mA per channel. This means that the 252 has much less reserve.



How do the SRM-252S and SRM-353X compare to older amps such as the SRM-1 Mk2, SRM-3, and SRM-323S?

I'm looking for an amp to pair with SR-L700s.

Thanks


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

Zoide said:


> How do the SRM-252S and SRM-353S compare to older amps such as the SRM-1 Mk2, SRM-3, and SRM-323S?
> 
> I'm looking for an amp to pair with SR-L700s.
> 
> Thanks


Hello! I'm an owner of the L700 using it with the 353X and it's a great pairing. Quite a relaxed and soothing listen. It's just to kick back to


----------



## Zoide

AwzemCoffee said:


> Hello! I'm an owner of the L700 using it with the 353X and it's a great pairing. Quite a relaxed and soothing listen. It's just to kick back to



Ah, but the SRM-353X is much more expensive than the other amps I mentioned...


----------



## SeaWo|f

I can't compare but per dollar people really like the t1. If you want to get the most value buy one that needs to be recapped and do jiml s ccs mod at the same time.


----------



## JimL11

Zoide said:


> How do the SRM-252S and SRM-353X compare to older amps such as the SRM-1 Mk2, SRM-3, and SRM-323S?
> 
> I'm looking for an amp to pair with SR-L700s.
> 
> Thanks



Have never heard an SRM-1 Mk2, but its circuitry is older generation and lacks the constant current output loads, so it should have less drive capability than the 323. Not much info on the SRM-3 but its voltage output is only slightly more than the 252 (300VRMS vs 280VRMS) and not as much as the 323 (400 VRMS), so it either has a lower voltage PS than the 323, or less current drive, or both. 

As noted above the 252 and 323 are reportedly similar circuits but the 323 has much more standing current in the output stage, and I believe the 353 is the same circuit as the 323 but with the addition of balanced XLR inputs, so if you have balanced sources that is a benefit but if you don't, then they should sound pretty much the same.


----------



## JimL11

SeaWo|f said:


> I can't compare but per dollar people really like the t1. If you want to get the most value buy one that needs to be recapped and do jiml s ccs mod at the same time.



Actually, a lot of people like the unmodified T1 for the Lambda series headphones, but they are old enough (mid-1990s or before) that they all probably need to be recapped for best reliability. My sample had GE tubes (probably original) and they were still tested good so tubes last a long time with those amps. The CCS mod makes it even better but it where it really makes a difference is with the harder to drive Stax phones like the SR007. In fact I prefer the CCS modded T1 to an SRM727 with global feedback mod that I had at the same time. I sold that, but still have the T1. However, note that I prefer tubes to solid state for electrostatic headphones and speakers


----------



## SeaWo|f

Yea that's very true the unmodified t1 is good for L series. 

I was thinking of ccs as a while your in there sort of thing. Then it's done if you upgrade to omega series or added value if you sell for a different amp.


----------



## Zoide

There's an SRM-3 I could get at a good price for my upcoming L700, but it's had several owners and the only thing the seller knows is that it's at most 24 years old... 

I'm guessing I should hold off and look for something recapped (or perhaps even settle for a cheap used SRM-252S)?

Thanks


----------



## batfier

JimL11 said:


> I looked at the Highend Amp website, which includes schematics of their designs. They do have an advantage over the Stax amps in that they include a regulated power supply, however, the Alpha Centauri amp uses resistor loaded output stages, similar to the Stax SRM-T1, which means that a lot of their output power is burned up in the resistors. The KGST, which would be the equivalent of the Alpha Centauri, uses the more powerful 6S4A output tubes, but also uses constant current loads which burn up essentially no signal current, which more than doubles their effective power compared to plate resistor loads. To get some idea of the subjective effect of this circuit change, look at spritzer's comments about what a similar modification did to the sound of the Stax T1. The KGST also uses a regulated power supply.
> 
> The Canopus and Capella designs suffer from the same defect as the Alpha Centauri - they use tube amplification throughout but also have plate resistor outputs. By comparison, the SRX Plus, based on a 1968 Stax DIY circuit, also uses tube amplification throughout but uses constant current output loads which results in it having more effective output power despite using the less powerful 6SN7GTA/B output tubes.



The new Inexxon Sirius High Precision Amp meant by karlgerman is "Fully symmetrically constructed purely transistor-based DC amplifier" https://www.inexxon.com/online-shop/inexxon-sirius-verstärker-amp/, so no tubes at all. 

Not sure, but because of the name, it might be based on the orginial Sirius design http://www.high-amp.de/html/transistor_v4_eng.html

At least it looks well made.


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## JimL11 (Oct 17, 2018)

batfier said:


> The new Inexxon Sirius High Precision Amp meant by karlgerman is "Fully symmetrically constructed purely transistor-based DC amplifier" https://www.inexxon.com/online-shop/inexxon-sirius-verstärker-amp/, so no tubes at all.
> 
> Not sure, but because of the name, it might be based on the orginial Sirius design http://www.high-amp.de/html/transistor_v4_eng.html
> 
> At least it looks well made.



Can't really tell from the Inexxon website whether that is the same design as the high-amp Sirius design. The High-Amp design looks OK - all balanced differential stages with constant current (CC) output loads, although the circuit description is wrong in saying the output impedance is very high because of the CC loads. In fact the output impedance is determined by the emitter followers in the outputs, which have a low impedance. However, it lacks the 5.1 kilohm output safety resistors which Stax uses in all their recent amps (as do all the Gilmore amps, and the SRX Plus), so this is a negative in my opinion. I find it curious that the high-amp Alpha Centauri amp doesn't use the same constant current output loads that the Sirius has - the AC is already a hybrid design so it's not as if there aren't solid state elements in it already, and the use of CC loads would more than double its effective power output while decreasing distortion at the same time.

The other issue with the Alpha Centauri is that the output tubes are run at 400 volts and 5.3 watts plate dissipation per tube. However, the standard 6SN7GT tubes have maximum plate voltage ratings of 300 volts ,and maximum plate dissipation of 5 watts per tube. That means the output tubes MUST be 6SN7GTA or GTB, which have higher voltage and wattage ratings (450 volts and 7.5 watts total plate dissipation). Using non-A or B tubes as outputs is just asking for trouble.

Finally, the V5 power supply does have a 5 megohm safety resistor on the bias supply (good) but it uses an un-necessarily large final capacitor of 1 uf, in contrast to the 0.1 uf capacitor in the Stax and Gilmore bias supplies.


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## JimL11 (Oct 18, 2018)

A correction to a previous post, apparently the SRM-353X circuit resembles the SRM-717 rather than the SRM323. However, according to spritzer, the 353 is on the bright side, whereas the 717 was on the warm side.


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## Pahani

Zoide said:


> How do the SRM-252S and SRM-353X compare to older amps such as the SRM-1 Mk2, SRM-3, and SRM-323S?
> 
> I'm looking for an amp to pair with SR-L700s.
> 
> Thanks


I'm fortunate to own 252S, SRM-1 Mk2, and 353X presently. Paired with my L700.

SRM-1 is a noticeable increase in detail over 252S, but (at least my example) sounds a touch bright to my ears. Now, would you notice it if you didn't have other amps to compare it to? I'm guessing not.
353X retains the detail increase over the 252S, but sounds richer and fuller to me compared to SRM-1. I'm not a critical listener in any way, so can't elaborate more than that.

Hope this helps!


----------



## Zoide

Pahani said:


> I'm fortunate to own 252S, SRM-1 Mk2, and 353X presently. Paired with my L700.
> 
> SRM-1 is a noticeable increase in detail over 252S, but (at least my example) sounds a touch bright to my ears. Now, would you notice it if you didn't have other amps to compare it to? I'm guessing not.
> 353X retains the detail increase over the 252S, but sounds richer and fuller to me compared to SRM-1. I'm not a critical listener in any way, so can't elaborate more than that.
> ...



It does help, thanks!

I'm close to pulling the trigger on a used SRM-353X (demo model). It better be worth the 2X cost versus the SRM-252S though, because what started as a potential ~600 euro adventure (buying a used L300 + 252S) is potentially turning into a 1800 euro financial craziness (used L700 + used 353X) :O


----------



## JimL11

Whoops, another correction, meant to say that spritzer thinks the 353 (not the 323) is on the bright side. Sorry about that.


----------



## Zoide

JimL11 said:


> Whoops, another correction, meant to say that spritzer thinks the 353 (not the 323) is on the bright side. Sorry about that.



LOL make up your mind, man!


----------



## Hubert481

JimL11 said:


> Whoops, another correction, meant to say that spritzer thinks the 353 (not the 323) is on the bright side. Sorry about that.


Could you give a link therefore - thanks


----------



## JimL11

Zoide said:


> LOL make up your mind, man!



No change of mind, just a simple typo. 



Hubert481 said:


> Could you give a link therefore - thanks



PM sent.


----------



## gtrx333

Hi, just acquired a user srs-005smk2 set. I have a question about powering the energiser. I am in the UK and have realised he power adapter for this is 100v outputting to 12v 500ma dc. Now can I use a 12w 4a adapter from 220v?


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## Eich1eeF

gtrx333 said:


> Hi, just acquired a user srs-005smk2 set. I have a question about powering the energiser. I am in the UK and have realised he power adapter for this is 100v outputting to 12v 500ma dc. Now can I use a 12w 4a adapter from 220v?


Theoretically, you could, but STAX power supplies have positive on the outside of the plug, which is rather unusual. Thus you may have to cut and re-solder the plug. Also, if your power supply is unregulated, it may output a somewhat  higher voltage when not sufficiently loaded.


----------



## gtrx333

Thanks for the reply. Sounds too risky to me. I'll look into getting a step down transformer


----------



## 336881

gtrx333 said:


> Thanks for the reply. Sounds too risky to me. I'll look into getting a step down transformer



I'm not the biggest fan of them doing a deal with wal-mart but I use acupwr for all of my step down transformer needs. Great build quality, reasonable prices and no gigantic ugly box to hide.

I run a technics se-a100, sansui c-2301, sony das-r1 and sony ps-6750 all off one little 1000w acupwr transformer daisy chained. Still have outlets and power on hand for more 100v gear.


----------



## Eich1eeF

gtrx333 said:


> Thanks for the reply. Sounds too risky to me. I'll look into getting a step down transformer


I think you'd be better off with a quality, regulated power supply with exchangeable tips if you don't know anyone to re-solder the connector of the power supply you already have.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Oct 20, 2018)

I have a Stax 717 and a KGSSHV Carbon and I am interested in getting a KGST and trying to get a bead on it's sound.

I have become increasingly sensitive to the 009, and why I still love it, I am starting to become sensitive to it's treble. Tried the 009S and found them a bit too dark for my liking, though they were fatigue free.

The Carbon is almost too good with my 009. It's a bass monster, though controlled - and dynamics are fantastic. Unfortunately, I believe this is what could be causing the fatigue. I listen to it compared to my 717, and the 717 is a touch warmer, but the tone of the 009 - for the most part - remains true which is the most important thing to me. Dynamics are reduced, as is bass heft - but it allows me to enjoy the 009 for longer; the tone is really the most important thing for me.

I'm considering a KGST and trying to get a bead on it's sound. If anyone has tried an 009 with the KGST and these two amps - can you give me an understanding of the differences?

My ultimate goal is to be able to listen to the 009 with any DAC I want - as the 009 can be so dramatically different with different DACs. Retaining the tone I hear with both amps mentioned, and reducing listening fatigue is most important to me. Is the KGST closer to the 717, the Carbon, or something else entirely? Do you believe it will accomplish my goal of a less fatiguing 009, regardless of DAC?

In terms of DACs, I like the Auralic Vega with my 009 better than the Yggdrasil. I had a Dave on loan - and ultimately want to put that in the chain, which I believe is not quite as bright as the Vega.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Drewligarchy said:


> I have a Stax 717 and a KGSSHV Carbon and I am interested in getting a KGST and trying to get a bead on it's sound.
> 
> I have become increasingly sensitive to the 009, and why I still love it, I am starting to become sensitive to it's treble. Tried the 009S and found them a bit too dark for my liking, though they were fatigue free.
> 
> ...



Perhaps Sell the 717 and KGSSHV Carbon and get a Grounded Grid with some more laid back sounding tubes?


----------



## Drewligarchy (Oct 20, 2018)

Rhamnetin - curious why you don't like the KGST (honestly, I have never tried it).

My 717, with the 009, I think is a bit more of what my ears can handle at this point. I don't notice any deficiencies in tone, but rather the Carbon beats it in other technicalities. The 717 is quite old (literally) and changed a couple of hands on head fi - so don't know how much longer it will last.

Regarding the grounded grid - I don't know too much about that one. At that point, is there a benefit vs getting a BHSE. Any idea who builds the KGGG?

Ultimately, is htere an amp which is the consensus best amp for the 009 while being a bit forgiving as well? I don't want dark. I feel like the treble extension with the 717 and 009 and certain DACS is just as good as the Carbon. It's the other areas it falls short. Ultimately trying to optimize the 009 to get the high end I'm after without the fatigue.

I really don't want to believe I just can't tolerate the 009 anymore - they have always been my favorite phone.

And don't get me wrong - the Carbon is an absolute tour de force. It sounds great - but is just fatiguing with the 009.


----------



## purk

I would get the KGSSHV with a 450V PSU and Sanyo parts.  It is warmer tonally and almost as dynamics as the Carbon.  What you will loose out compared to the Carbon would be the size of soundstage and not as resolving.  It is still a good jump over the 717 in a direct comparison.  The BHSE with the right tubes is also smoother sounding than the Carbon with lesser treble emphasis and just a tad less dynamic.  However it is more relaxed to listen to and actually pair better with the original 009.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Oh I don't dislike the KGST, I've never tried it either. But it is a "mini BHSE" and not one of the top tier amps. 

Grounded Grid is a KGSSHV Carbon but with tubes (EL34/6CA7). Not sure who exactly builds them though. I think it should beat the BHSE, as far as I know the power supply design is better and it is more convenient as it has a servo to monitor the output stage. Which makes tube rolling easier. 

The consensus best amp while making the SR-009 more forgiving though is the T2.


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## joseph69

@Drewligarchy 
I had both, the Mjolnir KGSShv & KGST while waiting for my BHSE to arrive, and I preferred the KGST paired with the 009 for it's smoother presentation.


----------



## Drewligarchy

purk said:


> I would get the KGSSHV with a 450V PSU and Sanyo parts.  It is warmer tonally and almost as dynamics as the Carbon.  What you will loose out compared to the Carbon would be the size of soundstage and not as resolving.  It is still a good jump over the 717 in a direct comparison.  The BHSE with the right tubes is also smoother sounding than the Carbon with lesser treble emphasis and just a tad less dynamic.  However it is more relaxed to listen to and actually pair better with the original 009.



Thanks Purk. So I have a point of comparison from a tonality standpoint how would you compare warmth alone between 717 and KGST/KGSSHV Sanyo?


----------



## purk

Drewligarchy said:


> Thanks Purk. So I have a point of comparison from a tonality standpoint how would you compare warmth alone between 717 and KGST/KGSSHV Sanyo?



The KGSSHV with Sanyo is a wamish but very energetic sounding amp while the 717 is a dark and very laid back sounding amp .  I used to have the KGST too and the particular one that I had was brighter than my KGSSHV and just about as bright as the Carbon.  I heard the GG and it was very impressive....and @Whitigir  also preferred it over the Carbon in a direct comparison.  I also had the KGSSHV mini from Mjolnir and that one was too bright with the SR009 as well.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Rhamnetin said:


> Oh I don't dislike the KGST, I've never tried it either. But it is a "mini BHSE" and not one of the top tier amps.
> 
> Grounded Grid is a KGSSHV Carbon but with tubes (EL34/6CA7). Not sure who exactly builds them though. I think it should beat the BHSE, as far as I know the power supply design is better and it is more convenient as it has a servo to monitor the output stage. Which makes tube rolling easier.
> 
> The consensus best amp while making the SR-009 more forgiving though is the T2.



I hear you - but I guess my question is do you really need an end game amp with the 009 to get the most out of them based on priorities? They are almost like the focal utopias of electrostats in the sense that they can be easily driven. Now, I am aware that electrostats are a lot more amp dependent from experience - especially with the 007. I was perfectly happy with the 717 until I got my Carbon, but could love with that if I had to. The 009 retains its essence with that - the 007 doesn’t really.

The KGSSHV Sanyo is difficult to find, so if I want something more quickly I could buy a BHSE Or KGST. I would buy the BHSE if I new the tube compliment could get me where I need to be, it’s a lot to spend for a gamble. KGST is a bit easier to swallow.

Ultimately I’d like to get the 009 to a place that I could run them with a Dave. The Dave with the Carbon and 009 was revelatory - but fatiguing. It’s possible it wouldn’t have the same effect with a KGST as well.

Listening to the 009, Carbon, Yggy 2 and it sounds good but a little dark. Granted it’s only been burning in for 48 hours so hope the top end opens up.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Just going back and forth with the 717 and Carbon and you do really lose way too much in soundstage. The tone is nice though with the 009.

Maybe a KGSSHV Sanyo or BHSE is the way to go ...

It’s really been a challenge to get the 009s right where I want them!


----------



## SeaWo|f

Rhamnetin said:


> Grounded Grid is a KGSSHV Carbon but with tubes (EL34/6CA7). Not sure who exactly builds them though. I think it should beat the BHSE, as far as I know the power supply design is better and it is more convenient as it has a servo to monitor the output stage. Which makes tube rolling easier..



Those that have built both(BHSE and GG) say they sound mostly similar, after all the basic hybrid concept is the same in both amps even if the implementation is different. 

You can have a BHSE with the carbon power supply(GR) the recent builds I have seen all opted for this configuration.

But why not go exotic and find someone to build the KG sandwich amp(tube input, tube output carbon) for you?!


----------



## purk

You can buy the mjolnir kgsshv cheap version for $2300 now and that is based on the Sanyo parts.  Another really good amp to consider for the SR009 is the Headamp Aristaues.  A little less power than the KGSSHV, Carbon, and BHSE but with excellent tone that work great with the 009.


----------



## chinsettawong

I think if you could lower the current on the KGSSHV Carbon down a bit, it would probably make the amp not sound as bright.


----------



## Hubert481

What is the problem by using a SRM-T1 with a SR-009 ?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

None. Even though I obviously prefer them on my BHSE, I do regularly use my SRM-1 with my Staxens (009 are one of them), and as SRM-T1, SRM-1 doesn't have so much power 
Check the resistor / CCS mod from @JimL11 out there for the SRM-T1, good improvement for few bucks.

Ali


----------



## purk

Ali-Pacha said:


> None. Even though I obviously prefer them on my BHSE, I do regularly use my SRM-1 with my Staxens (009 are one of them), and as SRM-T1, SRM-1 doesn't have so much power
> Check the resistor / CCS mod from @JimL11 out there for the SRM-T1, good improvement for few bucks.
> 
> Ali


I even enjoy my 009 out of the SRM-D10.  Yes, you do get considerably better sound out of better amps but the 009 still sound good out of this portable solution as well.


----------



## oneguy

I had to run my Yggy / Carbon setup out of AES to tame the highs with my L700. Through USB is wasn’t enjoyable but AES was a game changer.


----------



## Drewligarchy

purk said:


> You can buy the mjolnir kgsshv cheap version for $2300 now and that is based on the Sanyo parts.  Another really good amp to consider for the SR009 is the Headamp Aristaues.  A little less power than the KGSSHV, Carbon, and BHSE but with excellent tone that work great with the 009.



I didn't know Birgir's KGSSHV is based on Sanyo parts. That's a great idea Purk, and even less expensive than the KGST from him!

I will also check out the Aristaeus from Justin - but at $2300 the Mjolnir KGSSHV seems like a great idea if I am not able to demo these.


----------



## Drewligarchy

SeaWo|f said:


> Those that have built both(BHSE and GG) say they sound mostly similar, after all the basic hybrid concept is the same in both amps even if the implementation is different.
> 
> You can have a BHSE with the carbon power supply(GR) the recent builds I have seen all opted for this configuration.
> 
> But why not go exotic and find someone to build the KG sandwich amp(tube input, tube output carbon) for you?!



Not a bad idea. If I could find a builder who could do it, I'd probably try and get someone to build me a T2 and be done with it. Also, I believe it's a bit warmer than a Carbon / BHSE - and I see that Lojay uses that combo with a Dave.

I live in the NYC area. Any recommendations on how to find a builder?


----------



## Drewligarchy

chinsettawong said:


> I think if you could lower the current on the KGSSHV Carbon down a bit, it would probably make the amp not sound as bright.



I explored this before, and as I have a Birgir build, I cant't reduce the current. I also am not necessarily sure I'd want to as it's the best amp I ever heard for the 007.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Oct 21, 2018)

oneguy said:


> I had to run my Yggy / Carbon setup out of AES to tame the highs with my L700. Through USB is wasn’t enjoyable but AES was a game changer.



Yup, already using Yggy2 out of AES from Auralic Vega Femto (just got it upgraded.) I didn't even get the Gen 5 USB upgrade, because they didn't have it in stock, and I didn't want to wait. Figured I could install it later myself if I really wanted to/

Incidentally I am around hour 60 on my Yggy2 upgrade - and it sounds a lot better and is non-fatiguing.

That said, the top end still doesn't sound right. It sounds both dry and unextended. Does this continue to improve?


----------



## JimL11

Drewligarchy said:


> I live in the NYC area. Any recommendations on how to find a builder?



You could try and contact @Kerry. He does very fine builds, up to and including T2.


----------



## Kerry

Thanks Jim

@Drewligarchy PM if you're interested


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## Rhamnetin

Oh my, going straight for a T2 from Kerry? If price isn't an issue, then I doubt you'll regret that!


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## purk (Oct 21, 2018)

Go straight to the top and get the T2 from Kerry!


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## mulveling

T2! No question!


----------



## VRacer-111

Heard an SR-007 on my system for the first time at the Houston meet on Saturday... pretty impressed. I've heard one before from a Yggy/Carbon CC combo and didn't care for it as much as an L500 on the same setup. Compared to my L300 Limited on the RME ADI-2/NAD C275BEE/Mjolnir SRD-7 setup, the SR-007 is very similar but definitely has more low end with better punch and better detail. Seems more full bodied sounding compared to the Mjolnir amp setups I've heard. Want to hear an SR-009S now with the RME ADI-2/NAD C275BEE stereo amp combo...


----------



## oneguy

Drewligarchy said:


> Yup, already using Yggy2 out of AES from Auralic Vega Femto (just got it upgraded.) I didn't even get the Gen 5 USB upgrade, because they didn't have it in stock, and I didn't want to wait. Figured I could install it later myself if I really wanted to/
> 
> Incidentally I am around hour 60 on my Yggy2 upgrade - and it sounds a lot better and is non-fatiguing.
> 
> That said, the top end still doesn't sound right. It sounds both dry and unextended. Does this continue to improve?



Hard to say as I never got that sense from the Yggy A2. For reference,  have listened to the Yggy A2 on the Carbon and GG.


----------



## padam

Hubert481 said:


> What is the problem by using a SRM-T1 with a SR-009 ?



Nothing specifically, but personally I would consider stepping up to at least the SRM-717 or modified SRM-727

The headphones have the capability to present an immense amount of dynamics, and I felt a better sense of that with those (and I guess it can be taken quite a bit further still)


----------



## cat6man (Oct 26, 2018)

it's been a while since i've checked in on this thread but my 009 have developed a problem and 1000+ pages is a bit much to sift through again 

my left channel has a buzz/hum that sometimes goes away if i tap it.  also, tapping the left channel causes static which does not happen when tapping the right channel.

can someone tell me the recommended method/address for getting 009 repaired?

thanks


----------



## padam (Oct 23, 2018)

cat6man said:


> it's been a while since i've checked in on this thread but my 009s have developed a problem and 1000+ pages is a bit much to sift through again
> 
> my left channel has a buzz/hum that sometimes goes away if i tap it.  also, tapping the left channel causes static which does not happen when tapping the right channel.
> 
> ...


There is a separate thread dedicated to these issues:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-009-channel-imbalance-trouble-driver-problem.555908/

I think it may need to be repaired by Stax, replacing both transducers as a permanent solution, unfortunately this is only free if it is still covered by a warranty (and explains why a used pair without warranty - maybe bought via grey market - may worth quite a bit less to a pair, which was bought from the official distributor and still has it).


----------



## cat6man

thanks padam.
however, i don't have channel imbalance, most likely a bad cable connection.
and it is not currently under warranty, though i did buy it new (and not grey market)

i see a site for staxaudio.com in the US which is run by Woo Audio, but no indication if they do repairs, so
i guess it has to go back to Japan?
if i can live with the problem, i plan to be in Japan next summer.............


----------



## padam (Oct 23, 2018)

If you check that thread, you will see that there is a facility in the US which deals with repairs.

I think what you have is dust or debris under the driver - although in that thread some claimed it was sitting on the outside dust cover itself (like a piece of hair or something), that would make it removable.
While you can try and push it towards your ears to make it go away temporarily, it will probably get back to a position where it will emit the buzzing again.

I did buy an SR-X which had the buzz on one side, I did this a few times and it never came back afterwards. But I did buy other vintage headphones, where it improved, but never went away permanently.

If it is the cable (which I don't think), I saw someone who shortened the cable on his SR-009 and documented the process, so it might be possible to do this with a skilled technician and not sending it in for a repair.


----------



## headinclouds

Drewligarchy said:


> I have a Stax 717 and a KGSSHV Carbon and I am interested in getting a KGST and trying to get a bead on it's sound.
> 
> I have become increasingly sensitive to the 009, and why I still love it, I am starting to become sensitive to it's treble. Tried the 009S and found them a bit too dark for my liking, though they were fatigue free.
> 
> ...










The KGST is a lovely amplifier and pairs very well with the original 009.  (I haven't heard it with the 009S).  I regard it as one of the best results for a very reasonable cost.
I am using the example of bonesyjonesy's Chord set up with KGST and 009.  The precision and clarity of the Chord system and the brightness of the 009 combined well with the sweetness of the KGST. For me this was the most listenable system for the 009 apart from going up to a Blue Hawaii/GG


----------



## JimL11 (Oct 26, 2018)

Hubert481 said:


> What is the problem by using a SRM-T1 with a SR-009 ?





padam said:


> Nothing specifically, but personally I would consider stepping up to at least the SRM-717 or modified SRM-727
> 
> The headphones have the capability to present an immense amount of dynamics, and I felt a better sense of that with those (and I guess it can be taken quite a bit further still)



The main issues with the T1 are: 1) the use of resistor plate loads, 2) relatively puny output tubes and 3) unregulated power supply. The plate resistors waste a lot of signal current and cause the amp to sound relatively soft and lacking in bass "oomph." There really isn't much that can be done with the power supply other than substitution bigger PS caps within the T1's envelope (pretty much all the Stax amps have a passive power supply), but modifying the amp by replacing the resistor plate loads with good constant current loads will significantly improve its sonic shortcomings, and further improvement can likely be had by modifying it to take ECC99 tubes which will allow the output current to be cranked up somewhat, although this requires rewiring the tube sockets. Take a look at this thread from back in Jan and Feb for more discussion. A T1 with the constant current load mod is very similar to the amp circuit of a KGST discussed by @headinclouds above.  The KGST has the advantages of more powerful output tubes and regulated power supply,

With the addition of electrolytic cap replacements due to age, I would consider the constant current modded T1 to be the same level as a 717 or global feedback modded 727, for lower cost.


----------



## phaeton70

Drewligarchy said:


> I have a Stax 717 and a KGSSHV Carbon and I am interested in getting a KGST and trying to get a bead on it's sound.
> 
> I have become increasingly sensitive to the 009, and why I still love it, I am starting to become sensitive to it's treble. Tried the 009S and found them a bit too dark for my liking, though they were fatigue free.
> 
> ...



why not move directly to the GG? compared face-to-face with the Carbon, the GG with the right tubes is much less fatiguing, still retaining the same impressive dynamics and transparency of the Carbon.


----------



## treebug (Oct 25, 2018)

Looking for thoughts on how the 009 or 009s sounds with the 006t energiser? Have the latter on the way with the SR-L700 but might upgrade to the 009 or 009s.


----------



## miko64

I got D10 to replace my srs252/battery solution. I am waiting for my lectures listening to the sr007/2. This is really “formidable”. From all my preferred tools this one is “more equal” (animal farm). Really a pleasure to listen. Furthermore transportable and lighter than say lcd4 where you need something like hugo...


----------



## biscottino

I also tried the d10 with the 007mkA and drove it without problems, even though the 009s I just took is from another world.
The internal Dac works directly from an ipad and the quality is not bad, but if you can play with a Chord Hugo and a good cable, I use Audioquest, you will begin to have many doubts about desktop systems.


----------



## Whitigir

People are not serious about Stax enough, not only the headphones itself, but the amplifier and then the DAC and the Source of transport .  I have disappeared because I am loving my Stax rig too much! A little more than Too too much!



cat6man said:


> it's been a while since i've checked in on this thread but my 009s have developed a problem and 1000+ pages is a bit much to sift through again
> 
> my left channel has a buzz/hum that sometimes goes away if i tap it.  also, tapping the left channel causes static which does not happen when tapping the right channel.
> 
> ...



I am sorry to hear this, and this is 009S and not regular one ? I am lucky to have my 009S healthy out of the box.

I think Woo is on the unknown-unsafe list of thing as far as Stax direction is ? I could be wrong, but I think since last years Stax has officially announced that if any Stax headphones is damaged by 3rd party amp (unknown-unsafe), will not fall in the warranties conditions


----------



## SquireC

Of course Stax will say this about 3rd party energisers. Just as amp makers say don't use another make of Dac, and dac makers say only use their power supplies. Nothing wrong to make that clear but it doesn't mean all 3rd party stuff is dangerous to use. Just need to listen to the experts on here on their views on compatability and make your own decision, and understand the responsibilities.

Having your Stax amp tweaked with better capacitors, valves, etc., you are breaking your warranty, if someone other than Stax does the change.


----------



## biscottino (Oct 26, 2018)

> I think Woo is on the unknown-unsafe list of thing as far as Stax direction is ? I could be wrong, but I think since last years Stax has officially announced that if any Stax headphones is damaged by 3rd party amp (unknown-unsafe), will not fall in the warranties conditions



yes, I also knew this thing, but if you send the headphones from your distributor, surely provides to repair them, a pair of drivers is costing about € 1500


----------



## Whitigir

biscottino said:


> yes, I also knew this thing, but if you send the headphones from your distributor, surely provides to repair them, a pair of drivers is costing about € 1500


Whatttt ? Lol that is for 009S ? Woaaa.

Does that means you advices to call up your distributors or dealers and let them buy in that you are using it with Stax amp ?


----------



## biscottino

Whitigir said:


> Whatttt ? Lol that is for 009S ? Woaaa.
> 
> Does that means you advices to call up your distributors or dealers and let them buy in that you are using it with Stax amp ?



surely it can not be a cheap repair, the price refers to a pair of drivers for 009, not 009s, unfortunately both channels are dead.
The Stax did not ask what was the amplifier used, but only because the 009 were not under warranty.


----------



## chinsettawong

biscottino said:


> surely it can not be a cheap repair, the price refers to a pair of drivers for 009, not 009s, unfortunately both channels are dead.
> The Stax did not ask what was the amplifier used, but only because the 009 were not under warranty.



If you are willing to DIY, repairing the headphones isn't that difficult.


----------



## Hubert481

Welcome to the club
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-009-channel-imbalance-trouble-driver-problem.555908/


----------



## cat6man (Oct 26, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> People are not serious about Stax enough, not only the headphones itself, but the amplifier and then the DAC and the Source of transport .  I have disappeared because I am loving my Stax rig too much! A little more than Too too much!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you caught my naming error........i was using 009s as the plural of 009 (as in headphones, plural) and forgot there was an animal called 009s.........oops
i went back and changed/fixed the original post

I am not using a Woo amp, but wondering if they were an authorized repair facility for Stax.
as for warranty, i am long out of warranty period so that is not an issue.

i will try some of the solutions suggested for dust/etc and see if that helps.
there is NO channel imbalance at all, just occasional intermittent static and crackling/distortion.
sometimes I tap it or move the phones and it goes away and bliss returns

keeping my fingers crossed as I love the sound of 009/BHSE.


----------



## biscottino

chinsettawong said:


> If you are willing to DIY, repairing the headphones isn't that difficult.



repairing the headphones is not my game, having a carbon and now the srm  dm10, I think I sleep peacefully ...


----------



## statfi

cat6man said:


> I am not using a Woo amp, but wondering if they were an authorized repair facility for Stax.
> as for warranty, i am long out of warranty period so that is not an issue.



I got my SR-009 fixed through contact with arale@edifier-international.com.


----------



## purk

biscottino said:


> repairing the headphones is not my game, having a carbon and now the srm  dm10, I think I sleep peacefully ...



What do u think of the D10?


----------



## biscottino

purk said:


> What do u think of the D10?



has incredible, grainy superfine, reconstruction headstage very wide, a nice low range and an excellent output volume, at hour 12 the volume is already very high, certainly in combo with Hugo2 using a Audioquest cable 30€,  does not disfigure near the combo Merging Nadac + Carbon, if I think only the Acrolink xlr cable costs as much as the srm d10, I can really think wrong


----------



## cat6man

statfi said:


> I got my SR-009 fixed through contact with arale@edifier-international.com.



thank you sir!


----------



## bwck2000

chinsettawong said:


> If you are willing to DIY, repairing the headphones isn't that difficult.


I saw someone fixed his faulty driver by taking the diaphragm out and wash it under running water. That 009 is once sent back for dust-cleaning but imbalance still persist. So cleaning the driver yourself is really something feasible.


----------



## natto lover

bwck2000 said:


> I saw someone fixed his faulty driver by taking the diaphragm out and wash it under running water. That 009 is once sent back for dust-cleaning but imbalance still persist. So cleaning the driver yourself is really something feasible.


remember that thread, he actually just cleaned the dust cover. pretty surprising he didn't destroy it. It is not easy to clean the driver at all (unless you know what you're doing of course)


----------



## bwck2000

natto lover said:


> remember that thread, he actually just cleaned the dust cover. pretty surprising he didn't destroy it. It is not easy to clean the driver at all (unless you know what you're doing of course)


I saw him posting pictures of the actual smooth, uniform diaphragm , not the wrinkled , semi-transparent dust cover , perhaps he didn't post it on head-fi , or maybe more than one person that are doing the same......


----------



## astrostar59

What is the current warranty period in the EU for Stax headphones?


----------



## natto lover

bwck2000 said:


> I saw him posting pictures of the actual smooth, uniform diaphragm , not the wrinkled , semi-transparent dust cover , perhaps he didn't post it on head-fi , or maybe more than one person that are doing the same......


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sta...e-driver-problem.555908/page-57#post-13502514


----------



## Whitigir

That was confirmed to be a dust screen, wasn’t it ?  In fact, watering out the diaphragm is a horrible idea as the ES-Particles May be washed away with it ? I believe @chinsettawong mentioned that too


----------



## bwck2000

natto lover said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sta...e-driver-problem.555908/page-57#post-13502514


I didn't hear my version of the story on headfi. I remember his ID as F51010 , he is (was) an active contributor in the local stax communities in China, pertty sure they are not the same person as I heard the story in 2018. washing the dust cover surely is a silly idea as water will retain inside the driver. But washing the diaphragm alone kind of make sense to me given that the environment is not too dusty.


----------



## natto lover (Oct 31, 2018)

bwck2000 said:


> I didn't hear my version of the story on headfi. I remember his ID as F51010 , he is (was) an active contributor in the local stax communities in China, pertty sure they are not the same person as I heard the story in 2018. washing the dust cover surely is a silly idea as water will retain inside the driver. But washing the diaphragm alone kind of make sense to me given that the environment is not too dusty.


nooooooo, you don't want to wash the diaphragm either, as it will damage or remove the anti-static coating. Same reason you don't want to expose them to excess humidity


----------



## bearwarrior

Whitigir said:


> That was confirmed to be a dust screen, wasn’t it ?  In fact, watering out the diaphragm is a horrible idea as the ES-Particles May be washed away with it ? I believe @chinsettawong mentioned that too


 
I can never imagine people are actually doing that. They think the diaphragm as a china plate or something? Why don't they try ethanol as well? LOL.


----------



## Zinfin

Is any kind of routine maintenance (i.e., cleaning dust from the diaphragms or retensioning them) necessary for the Stax?


----------



## Rhamnetin

Zinfin said:


> Is any kind of routine maintenance (i.e., cleaning dust from the diaphragms or retensioning them) necessary for the Stax?



I've never done it in a period of 2 years


----------



## Whitigir

Zinfin said:


> Is any kind of routine maintenance (i.e., cleaning dust from the diaphragms or retensioning them) necessary for the Stax?


Nope, just take a proper care for it, and it can last decades


----------



## Velomane

I'd appreciate any feedback on the Stax extension cables. Other than one being silver-coated copper, is one superior to the other? Will either one work on a SR-007mk2/ SR-009S?

Cheaper one: https://www.hifiheadphones.ca/stax-sre-750-16ft-extension-cable/
Silver-coated, more expensive one: https://www.hifiheadphones.ca/stax-sre-950s-16ft-extension-cable/


----------



## SeaWo|f

Either will work with any pro bus bias headphone. I use the copper once in my setup and am happy. I  made the inquiry to some extremely knowledgeable yet notoriously grump a stax gurus who said that spending the additional money on the silver plated one is pointless.


----------



## Velomane

Thank you, sir. Is there such a thing as a non-grumpy Stax guru? A rare breed, I think.


----------



## bwck2000

natto lover said:


> nooooooo, you don't want to wash the diaphragm either, as it will damage or remove the anti-static coating. Same reason you don't want to expose them to excess humidity


When you use cold water the solubility of the coating in water is low. With proper drying there should be no issue, Just like how people wash the pcb board of hifi equipments.


----------



## Whitigir

Velomane said:


> Thank you, sir. Is there such a thing as a non-grumpy Stax guru? A rare breed, I think.



It is good, so that clueless people knows to step back.  The majority of time, clueless people are ignorant with super high Ego.  So, once their Ego is touched, they will back out, which is why they are clueless.  The wiser people usually put their Ego aside, and keep heading on the right directions, the knowledge that they aim to achieve.

Being grumpy is a good way to collectively direct wise people to Stax


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 2, 2018)

bwck2000 said:


> When you use cold water the solubility of the coating in water is low. With proper drying there should be no issue, Just like how people wash the pcb board of hifi equipments.


Dude...you are comparing a PCB to a Stax Diaphragm ?...

Seriously...What the Fun ?


----------



## bwck2000

SeaWo|f said:


> Either will work with any pro bus bias headphone. I use the copper once in my setup and am happy. I  made the inquiry to some extremely knowledgeable yet notoriously grump a stax gurus who said that spending the additional money on the silver plated one is pointless.


I guess using silver coated cable will only introduce excess treble to the sound. I sometimes wonder will 009 sound sweeter with the copper cable from 007.


----------



## Zoide

Velomane said:


> Thank you, sir. Is there such a thing as a non-grumpy Stax guru? A rare breed, I think.


I know, right!? That's why Head-Case is such a scary place...


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Velomane said:


> I'd appreciate any feedback on the Stax extension cables. Other than one being silver-coated copper, is one superior to the other? Will either one work on a SR-007mk2/ SR-009S?
> 
> Cheaper one: https://www.hifiheadphones.ca/stax-sre-750-16ft-extension-cable/
> Silver-coated, more expensive one: https://www.hifiheadphones.ca/stax-sre-950s-16ft-extension-cable/


40% of the capacitance lays within the cable on Stax headphones. The higher the capacitance, the more you lose into the cable...let alone with extension. Check this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slew_rate
Slew Rate may be seen as the ability to stick to signal variations. The higher the volume (as well as frequency and capacitance), the more you need power from your amp.
But it's theoretical, you'll have to hit deafening levels, be able to hear high frequencies like a teenager and listen to music with lots of  square waves to notice differences between with and without extension cable 

Ali


----------



## Rhamnetin

Zoide said:


> I know, right!? That's why Head-Case is such a scary place...



It's not scary, you just have to be open minded and willing to have some of your illusions shattered by some shocking truths with actual facts to back them up. Oh and it's not the place to go seeking recommendations (do that here), they only want to discuss technical aspects of Stax related products and some high end headphone amps. Very insightful place.


----------



## Jones Bob

Rhamnetin said:


> It's not scary, you just have to be open minded and willing to have some of your illusions shattered by some shocking truths with actual facts to back them up. Oh and it's not the place to go seeking recommendations (do that here), they only want to discuss technical aspects of Stax related products and some high end headphone amps. Very insightful place.



Agreed. Leave your ego and audio misconceptions behind, lurk for awhile before asking a considered on topic question and one can learn a lot there.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Oh yea and the stax extension cables are totally non micro phonic. I have the long one to reach the chairs in the back of my office and when walking from there to my computer and back while dragging the thing on carpet, no problem. Funny how so many high-end cable brands have issues with this..


----------



## PointyFox (Nov 2, 2018)

Anyone know why the ear well on the Omega 2 pads seems to be designed to face with the flat part against the curved part of the ear and the curved part near the flat part of the ear?

I.e.:


----------



## Jones Bob (Nov 2, 2018)

The pads are thin in the front, and quite thick in the back.

With the back of the ear pad filled in behind the ear (in your first drawing) it helps in minimizing the total air volume.


----------



## 336881

Whitigir said:


> It is good, so that clueless people knows to step back.  The majority of time, clueless people are ignorant with super high Ego.  So, once their Ego is touched, they will back out, which is why they are clueless.  The wiser people usually put their Ego aside, and keep heading on the right directions, the knowledge that they aim to achieve.
> 
> Being grumpy is a good way to collectively direct wise people to Stax



It would not be so bad if they had a clear and concise welcome message. They did not know their own welcome message years ago and I'm very confident that they still don't. They also break their own welcome message rules all the time so their is zero point in lurking. I lurked for two whole years before I posted. Did not do me any good. They also gang up on new members and can not fight their own battles. Seriously cowardly.  The biggest bunch of audio cowards I have ever met by a long shot.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I had no idea any of these places have welcome messages. I also never bother to lurk, but I have rather thick skin. Honestly I hate the idea of safe spaces. This PC nonsense will be the death of western society.



Jones Bob said:


> The pads are thin in the front, and quite thick in the back.
> 
> With the back of the ear pad filled in behind the ear (in your first drawing) it helps in minimizing the total air volume.



+1

The management of this space is the most under reported part of headphones covered by reviewers and probably the least understood by the community. From a 2 channel perspective this is your room. Now look up that topic in that community.. It's covered ad nauseam. 

I am not a headphone designer so I admit I have little understanding of it other than doing it right can make or break a product.


----------



## PointyFox

I get it that you want thin in front and thick in back, but if that is the case, why does the 'D' shape seem to be backwards?


----------



## Whitigir (Nov 4, 2018)

Now, I found the excuse for why I should have mid-Fi beside my Stax...I could gone numb at how good Stax and T2 sounds like and that I no longer feel to appreciate.  Only until I listen to mid-tier for a bit and get back at Stax ....LOL

What an evil hobby


----------



## Mozartaudio

Hi, I just got the new Stax SRM D10. I was looking for the battery capacity and I didn't seem to find it, I am wondering how long does the battery last and what is it's capacity.


----------



## miko64

Mozartaudio said:


> Hi, I just got the new Stax SRM D10. I was looking for the battery capacity and I didn't seem to find it, I am wondering how long does the battery last and what is it's capacity.


3.5-4.5h duration


----------



## biscottino

Mozartaudio said:


> Hi, I just got the new Stax SRM D10. I was looking for the battery capacity and I didn't seem to find it, I am wondering how long does the battery last and what is it's capacity.



I play for 5 hour with Line in, I have not tested well with usb input yet.


----------



## thekong

Dear All, may I ask if you keep the amp on 24/7 to constantly charge the Stax headphone?

If that is not necessary, then how long would it take for the Stax to reach optimal performance after you turn on the amp?

Thanks!


----------



## PointyFox

thekong said:


> Dear All, may I ask if you keep the amp on 24/7 to constantly charge the Stax headphone?
> 
> If that is not necessary, then how long would it take for the Stax to reach optimal performance after you turn on the amp?
> 
> Thanks!



Charging is nearly instantaneous. Optimal performance would be when the capacitors are fully charged, which typically takes a second or two.


----------



## Velomane

With Black Friday around the corner, I'm inclined to ask about the odds of there being any deals on the new 009S. Would a 20% off deal be possible? Does Stax ever go on deal?


----------



## SeaWo|f

It may take some time for the SS parts in an amp to fully warm up and reach optimum performance.


----------



## Zoide

SeaWo|f said:


> It may take some time for the SS parts in an amp to fully warm up and reach optimum performance.


I was told by a headphone store owner that you need to keep the amp on for 30-60 minutes for it (the amp? the earspeakers? both?) to sound at its best.

I wonder if there's any science behind it leading to audible results, though.


----------



## PointyFox

Most things are designed not taking temperature of the components into consideration, so maybe amps only sound their best for a short time after turning them on?


----------



## SeaWo|f

Zoide said:


> I was told by a headphone store owner that you need to keep the amp on for 30-60 minutes for it (the amp? the earspeakers? both?) to sound at its best.
> 
> I wonder if there's any science behind it leading to audible results, though.



He was talking about the amp. Honestly this "problem" of warm up is WAY overstated IMO.


----------



## JimL11

SeaWo|f said:


> It may take some time for the SS parts in an amp to fully warm up and reach optimum performance.





Zoide said:


> I was told by a headphone store owner that you need to keep the amp on for 30-60 minutes for it (the amp? the earspeakers? both?) to sound at its best.
> 
> I wonder if there's any science behind it leading to audible results, though.





PointyFox said:


> Most things are designed not taking temperature of the components into consideration, so maybe amps only sound their best for a short time after turning them on?



If you read the detailed specifications of resistors, capacitors, etc. most of them have some measurable temperature coefficient, so their exact value varies with temperature, even if the amount of change is very small. However, transistors will have clearly different characteristic curves depending on temperature, which are frequently shown on their data sheets - commonly curves are shown at 25 and 125 degrees centigrade. 

The thing that takes the most time to warm up are the heatsinks that the solid state parts are attached to - it takes time for the transistors to warm these up to their steady state operating temperature, and the transistor parameters will change during this process. So the heatsinks may start at room temperature, e.g. 20 - 24 degrees centigrade, and increase up to 45 - 50 degrees centigrade at steady state. Note that when the heatsink is at 50 degrees, the transistor itself may be at a significantly higher temperature as there is a gradient in temperature between the transistor die itself, the case, the insulating wafer and the heatsink. This is why, with say the BHSE, you do preliminary bias adjustments shortly after turn-on, but final bias adjustments are made after, say 30-60 minutes, when everything is close to steady state. The change in bias is a measurable phenomenon, whether you can hear the difference or not.


----------



## TSAVAlan

Velomane said:


> With Black Friday around the corner, I'm inclined to ask about the odds of there being any deals on the new 009S. Would a 20% off deal be possible? Does Stax ever go on deal?


Unlikely on a new unit. I would even say there probably isn't many 009S floating around even secondhand. Stax isn't too keen to discount.


----------



## Velomane

TSAVAlan said:


> Unlikely on a new unit. I would even say there probably isn't many 009S floating around even secondhand. Stax isn't too keen to discount.



That's what I figured. Finding a deal on the 009S is about as unlikely as a discounted Rolex Daytona.


----------



## sotto123

If I were to use the 007 with a Mjolnir Audio reworked SRD-7 and 30wpc speaker amp would I get the best out of it?


----------



## PointyFox

sotto123 said:


> If I were to use the 007 with a Mjolnir Audio reworked SRD-7 and 30wpc speaker amp would I get the best out of it?



Make sure it's the pro bias version. You'll also need a speaker amp.


----------



## azabu

Velomane said:


> I'd appreciate any feedback on the Stax extension cables. Other than one being silver-coated copper, is one superior to the other? Will either one work on a SR-007mk2/ SR-009S?
> 
> Cheaper one: https://www.hifiheadphones.ca/stax-sre-750-16ft-extension-cable/
> Silver-coated, more expensive one: https://www.hifiheadphones.ca/stax-sre-950s-16ft-extension-cable/




I have the 007 Mk2 and currently using the 950s SPC extension cord.

The 950s cable will add refinement and move frequencies toward the upper registers, giving you the typical SPC tone. It's a good tweak to have, and definitely worth the $150 if you already have the 007s.


----------



## SeaWo|f

sotto123 said:


> If I were to use the 007 with a Mjolnir Audio reworked SRD-7 and 30wpc speaker amp would I get the best out of it?



While you definitely could be happy with that setup and depending on the synergy of components it may sound very good. I don't think anyone would tell you that with regard to the 007 there is more performance to be had from other setups.

As a starting point oi that is convenient for you I say go for it. Then down the line you have many options.


----------



## phaeton70

new toy for men playing. and it's a very beautiful playing 











and the overall playground


----------



## SeaWo|f

Nice!

Looks like a GG from sorenb?


----------



## phaeton70

yup!!


----------



## Scgorg

After spending some time with my L300 I have to say that they are quite wonderful headphones, I think the tonality is somewhat off but very tolerable. What I find bizarre though, is what feels like an imaging problem. Pinpointing where things come from is so hard, but at the same time i believe it adds to the general diffuse presentation of the headphone, where the sound simply exists, it doesn't feel like it comes from anywhere. Has anyone had a similar experience?


----------



## VRacer-111 (Nov 8, 2018)

sotto123 said:


> If I were to use the 007 with a Mjolnir Audio reworked SRD-7 and 30wpc speaker amp would I get the best out of it?



I had the chance to listen to an SR-007 MK2 on my STAX setup at the Houston meet last month, first time another STAX besides my modded L300 Limited has been on it. Setup is RME ADI-2 DAC > NAD C275BEE stereo amp > Mjolnir SRD-7 > modded SR-L300 LEs. They guy who had the SR-007 MK2 was using a KGSSHV based rig that was having some issues so I suggested he try the 007 on my setup. Absolutely love the L300 Limiteds on my setup... and the SR-007 MK2 were immediatly noticed to be better in subbass impact and finer details. Subbass from my L300 Limiteds is noticeably beyond my Argon Mk3 with ZMF Lambskin pads (which I LOVE BTW and is properly driven from a modded Gustard H10 amp) in impact and overall presence, and the SR-007 MK2 are even noticeably a little beyond that. STAX are NOT bass light properly driven...

Had perferred the Lambdas from my brief listening experiences before actually getting my STAX. Had previously listened to SR-007 Mk2 on a Yggy/Carbon CC setup, Stax L500 from same setup, and SR-009 on Mojo/STAX driver I can't exactly remember but was similar to a modded SRM-Xh. I actually preferred the sound of the 009 setup over that of the 007, but the L500 over either Omega.

I would say it all depends on the amp you use though...the sound quality will only be as good as the amp and DAC.

Being I already had an excellent stereo amp is the reason I went with a Mjolnir SRD-7 based setup to begin with and I couldn't be happier. Much cheaper route than full tilt 3rd party electrostatic and I absolutely love the lowend, fullness, and detail the NAD C275BEE amp brings out. If an excellent amp and DAC are used then I can't see anyone being dissatisfied with the sound quality of a Mjolnir SRD-7 based system.

And now that I've heard the SR-007 MK2 on my setup I absolutely would love to try out an SR-009 and SR-009S on it.


----------



## billqs (Nov 8, 2018)

I use my SRD 7 to power the only normal bias STAX I have which are the original Lambdas. They sound fantastic. Incredibly transparent. I'm excited to be getting my SR007 mkII back from STAX who repaired a channel imbalance issue by placing 2 new sound elements in them. I have the 007'and my 009 running off of a KGSShv made by Birgir. I'm about a month away from getting my Carbon. I hope it will tame the rough treble I hear with the 009.  I haven't gotten to hear the 009S. Does it have a smoother response?


----------



## tabness

Would anyone know anywhere to actually audition Stax around the Seattle area?


----------



## Zoide

What's the right way to position modern STAX Lambdas (e.g., L700) on your head?

Should the headband be right at the top/middle of the head (earspeakers straight up at 12 o'clock) or closer to the back/crown of the head (earspeakers angled back at 1-2 o'clock)?

Thanks


----------



## Whitigir

Zoide said:


> What's the right way to position modern STAX Lambdas (e.g., L700) on your head?
> 
> Should the headband be right at the top/middle of the head (earspeakers straight up at 12 o'clock) or closer to the back/crown of the head (earspeakers angled back at 1-2 o'clock)?
> 
> Thanks


Whichever sound best, if you couldn’t  hear the differences, then it wouldn’t matter


----------



## walakalulu

Zoide said:


> What's the right way to position modern STAX Lambdas (e.g., L700) on your head?
> 
> Should the headband be right at the top/middle of the head (earspeakers straight up at 12 o'clock) or closer to the back/crown of the head (earspeakers angled back at 1-2 o'clock)?
> 
> Thanks



How about something as simple as whatever sounds best to your ears?


----------



## Zoide

walakalulu said:


> How about something as simple as whatever sounds best to your ears?



No need to be rude.

I can't tell too much of a difference and was hoping for some helpful advice on the proper way to wear them (e.g., "it's a common mistake to [blablabla], but actually STAX recommends that [blablabla]").


----------



## Zoide

It seems like the bass is boomier with the headband on the middle of the head (earspeakers straight up), which is weird because the pads seem to leak more in that position...


----------



## Scgorg

Zoide said:


> It seems like the bass is boomier with the headband on the middle of the head (earspeakers straight up), which is weird because the pads seem to leak more in that position...


A headphone that is ported gets boosted midbass (boom) and less subbass, in other words you are basically porting the headphone by not giving it an optimal seal, hence the boominess. This can also be observed on headphones like the HD650 which has vented front volume, it starts rolling off at 60-70hz IIRC.


----------



## oneguy

Zoide said:


> What's the right way to position modern STAX Lambdas (e.g., L700) on your head?
> 
> Should the headband be right at the top/middle of the head (earspeakers straight up at 12 o'clock) or closer to the back/crown of the head (earspeakers angled back at 1-2 o'clock)?
> 
> Thanks



This how I wear mine:


----------



## Zoide

oneguy said:


> This how I wear mine:



Nice haircut 

That's interesting. Mine seem to naturally fit my head angled back:


----------



## oneguy (Nov 11, 2018)

Zoide said:


> Nice haircut
> 
> That's interesting. Mine seem to naturally fit my head angled back:



Thanks yeah I haven’t shaved it down in a few days. It needs it :/

It looks like you wear yours with a little more angled than mine. I have no idea what’s better. I just go with however my ears fit best in there as I prefer to not have my ears touching the headphones. For some reason my left ear in particular contacts the internal structure if not positioned correctly and hurts after 30 min.


----------



## PointyFox

Looks like your both wearing them about the same. Head tilt is different in each picture which makes it look different


----------



## Mozartaudio

BenF said:


> So... Who else travels with their electrostats?


Stax SRM D10+009 - big home-hotel portable, Shure kse1500 - real portable.


----------



## buzzlulu

What are u feeding the D10 with?

Anyone use the Sony WM1Z to feed a Stax rig ( from either the balanced or unbalanced headphone out analogue jack)?


----------



## biscottino

I use a wm1a and I also have the otg cable Sony, tomorrow I'll try...


----------



## buzzlulu

otg cable Sony ??


----------



## Mozartaudio

buzzlulu said:


> What are u feeding the D10 with?



iPhone 7 (digital output), Onkyo dpx1a (analog output).


----------



## BenF

Mozartaudio said:


> Stax SRM D10+009 - big home-hotel portable, Shure kse1500 - real portable.


Nice!
Do you feel that sometimes D10 can't get 009 loud enough?


----------



## Hubert481 (Nov 11, 2018)

Zoide said:


> Nice haircut
> 
> That's interesting. Mine seem to naturally fit my head angled back:


#me too with l700 In position 7:30


----------



## Pahani

Only posting this because, surprisingly, noone has mentioned it yet.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33455

Discuss.


----------



## miko64

BenF said:


> Nice!
> Do you feel that sometimes D10 can't get 009 loud enough?


That depends ... on how much damage you need for your ears . Two anchor points

1) yesterday there was a big ear 2018 in Zurich and the Stax distributor was showing sr009s plus d10 and sr300-80yrs plus d10. 
2) I listen quite loud to classical music/opera w sr007/2 or sr009s plus d10. never felt under powered

hope this is helpful

M


----------



## cjeong

Pahani said:


> Only posting this because, surprisingly, noone has mentioned it yet.
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33455
> 
> Discuss.


Curiously suspicious. Maybe a Kingsound Clone, but the amp is different. Portable amplifier which may be nice. Ugly. Sure want to try it but don’t have enough dough.


----------



## bmichels

Got a new baby home: a *Stax SR007 Mk1 early version*... in mint condition. 


 

Initial listening show that is it not better or less good than my SR009, it is just different and a very good complement :  SR009 for classical music and SR007 for pop/rock or SR009 for critical listening with attention to the details, and SR007 for cool and relax listening.  The 007 indeed offer (a little) less details BUT is (IMO) more round and more engaging.

So, with the purchase of this SR007 mk1 I can move my EC445 / Hifiman HE500 (modded) to another room, and just kept the BHSE/STAXs in my listening room. This clean a little the top of my Audio furniture.


----------



## Whitigir

Very lovely corner there @bmichels .  I will need some good chair soon for my place


----------



## Mozartaudio

BenF said:


> Nice!
> Do you feel that sometimes D10 can't get 009 loud enough?



More then loud enough with my 009 and Lambda's, never under powered. Like this amp-dac very much !!!!


----------



## Mozartaudio (Nov 11, 2018)

bmichels said:


> Got a new baby home: a *Stax SR007 Mk1 early version*... in mint condition.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Congratulations and happy listening. You have a nice listening spot.
Does anybody know where I can get an aluminiun box like old 007 for my 009? I like to use it for traveling.


----------



## biscottino

buzzlulu said:


> otg cable Sony ??


Yes, play just now, it work very very well, play binaural album of Oscar Peterson, Great Combo!!!


----------



## biscottino

Mozartaudio said:


> More then loud enough with my 009 and Lambda's, never under powered. Like this amp-dac very much !!!!


Me Too, d10 play 009s wonderfull, i’m without words...


----------



## biscottino




----------



## alota

biscottino said:


> Me Too, d10 play 009s wonderfull, i’m without words...


You tried d10 with hugo2?thank you


----------



## Mozartaudio (Nov 11, 2018)

@*biscottino*
How does D10 compare to your Kgsshv Carbon hv ?


----------



## miko64

alota said:


> You tried d10 with hugo2?thank you


I did, in summary h2 is an outstanding day, however d10 is also *very* good, hence I decided to be happy with 2 boxes (a&k and d10) instead of three boxes...


----------



## biscottino

alota said:


> You tried d10 with hugo2?thank you


Yes my friend, i play with AudioQuest cable minijack/rca use Chord Dac, it works very fine...play with AR mr2 too, best dap, from Line out and D10 works great!
Internal Dac of d10 is good, you know very well that  better the source is, the better your result is.


----------



## biscottino

Mozartaudio said:


> @*biscottino*
> How does D10 compare to your Kgsshv Carbon hv ?



to do well this test, I should compare the Carbon and D10 always using my Nadac, it is a test that I will certainly, although I can anticipate that the Carbon has more authority and energy to squeeze all the juice from each headset Stax, but the d10 defends itself very well, if it does not require high volumes of listening, sound is delicious.


----------



## buzzlulu

biscottino said:


> Yes, play just now, it work very very well, play binaural album of Oscar Peterson, Great Combo!!!



Which cable is this - do you have a model number or link?
Thanks


----------



## Velomane

@bmichels

Thanks for the post. Some very useful information there. Is it true that Belgians are legally obligated to own Tintin toys?


----------



## alota

biscottino said:


> Yes my friend, i play with AudioQuest cable minijack/rca use Chord Dac, it works very fine...play with AR mr2 too, best dap, from Line out and D10 works great!
> Internal Dac of d10 is good, you know very well that  better the source is, the better your result is.


Of course. Thank you. The surprise is after giant amplifiers, this little thing drives 009 well


----------



## biscottino

buzzlulu said:


> Which cable is this - do you have a model number or link?
> Thanks



This one, entry level:

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/audioquest-tower-35mm-to-2-rca-audio-cable


----------



## Zoide

Mozartaudio said:


> More then loud enough with my 009 and Lambda's, never under powered. Like this amp-dac very much !!!!


That's interesting. Here we have a portable amp playing the flagship more than loud enough. And I never need to go beyond 3 (out of 10) on my SRM-323S's volume dial with the SR-L700 when listening to Google Play Music out of an ODAC.

Could it be that some of us have very sensitive ears? Or is it just that much of the volume dial range of our amps is not really needed?


----------



## buzzlulu

biscottino said:


> This one, entry level:
> 
> https://www.futureshop.co.uk/audioquest-tower-35mm-to-2-rca-audio-cable



Thanks
So basically you are effectively double amping out of the WM1 if you are taking it from the unbalanced out on the Sony


----------



## biscottino

Sony play with Otg + Vertere usb and iSilencer.


----------



## biscottino




----------



## tabness

biscottino said:


> to do well this test, I should compare the Carbon and D10 always using my Nadac, it is a test that I will certainly, although I can anticipate that the Carbon has more authority and energy to squeeze all the juice from each headset Stax, but the d10 defends itself very well, if it does not require high volumes of listening, sound is delicious.



Thanks for this impression, I personally don't listen too loud and don't listen to stuff that has a large dynamic range so it is good to know that even a lesser amplifier will still be suitable (I'm now really thinking of starting with a vintage T1S to drive the 009/S in the case I ever stumble upon an Omega later).

I know many here have stated that the bass really improves with the more powerful amps, is there any kind of impedance measurements across the frequency range for the 009/S? Does this question even make sense to ask for electrostats?


----------



## PointyFox

Loudness depends on your source output and dac output as well.


----------



## biscottino

tabness said:


> Thanks for this impression, I personally don't listen too loud and don't listen to stuff that has a large dynamic range so it is good to know that even a lesser amplifier will still be suitable (I'm now really thinking of starting with a vintage T1S to drive the 009/S in the case I ever stumble upon an Omega later).
> 
> I know many here have stated that the bass really improves with the more powerful amps, is there any kind of impedance measurements across the frequency range for the 009/S? Does this question even make sense to ask for electrostats?


he small D10 has a bass perfect for quality and quantity, I can not drill flaws, but you have to have an excellent source to enjoy completely. If you want to start from the old t1 I think you will not have problems, are capable of excellent performance at good prices


----------



## biscottino

PointyFox said:


> Loudness depends on your source output and dac output as well.



 spent the last 6 years with 009 and I recognize clear differences with the new 009, I could not say that one is loudness and another is not. If I had to explain the sound in a few words, I would say that 009 is like a good Gin while the 009 is like a great Whiskey.


----------



## JimL11

tabness said:


> Thanks for this impression, I personally don't listen too loud and don't listen to stuff that has a large dynamic range so it is good to know that even a lesser amplifier will still be suitable (I'm now really thinking of starting with a vintage T1S to drive the 009/S in the case I ever stumble upon an Omega later).
> 
> I know many here have stated that the bass really improves with the more powerful amps, is there any kind of impedance measurements across the frequency range for the 009/S? Does this question even make sense to ask for electrostats?



The T1 series is a different technology - not so much in the fact that it uses tubes for outputs, but rather that it uses plate resistors for output loads, and as has been pointed out in the past, those resistors suck up the majority of output signal current and burn it up as heat, making it a relatively inefficient (weak) amplifier.

Impedance measurements don't mean much for electrostatic headphones. Stax states that their headphones (except for the 002/003) behave like capacitors of approximately 100 pf, which is incomplete. It is true that electrostatic headphones resemble capacitors except for one crucial characteristic - capacitors don't make sound, and headphones do. So a better "model" of an electrostatic headphone is a capacitor in parallel with a resistor. Resistors don't make sound either, but they do drain energy from the amp in the form of heat, just as music drains energy from the amp in the form of sound.


----------



## Scgorg

Zoide said:


> That's interesting. Here we have a portable amp playing the flagship more than loud enough. And I never need to go beyond 3 (out of 10) on my SRM-323S's volume dial with the SR-L700 when listening to Google Play Music out of an ODAC.
> 
> Could it be that some of us have very sensitive ears? Or is it just that much of the volume dial range of our amps is not really needed?



Probably a bit of both, personally I am a low volume listener, but I've seen people who crank their magni to 2o'clock in high gain with easy to drive phones. For one a lot of volume may be wasted, but for someone else it might be just enough.


----------



## miko64

D10 - power?

I had some time yesterday to again compare D10 vs (SRM 727/ii) w SR 009:

1) I eluded that d10 has a lot of power before. When listening again to one of the odd pieces of classical music (Rinaldo/Haendel w Cecilia Bartoli), which has a very large amount of subsonic (15-30 Hz). There one could see some distortion with D10. This is actually the only instance I saw D10 clipping.

2) This was a reason to inquire whether actually SR009s was clipping, hence comparing the two as per above. In summary no - since with SRM7272/ii no clipping. 

3) But still D10 is a hell of an amp

4) Now how is Hugo 2 vs D10. Yes Hugo 2 is better (more natural and crisp), in particular with older CDs. The difference fades away with high resolution  but still remains. I like Hugo a lot, in particular with the likes of LCD 4 or D8000. 

5) But overall D10 alone is the better solution when traveling on the airplane

Btw - somebody asked whether I travel with electrosts? - Yes


----------



## PointyFox

Does anyone know if there are Stax headphones more transparent than the SR-007A? I kind of want it to sound like the sound is coming from elsewhere and not an inch or two from my ears. It's pretty similar to the other TOTL headphones I've heard, but I'd imagine it could be better.  Also, I've seen the instructions on how to remove the earpads, but they're not clear to me. Does anyone know of any videos of someone removing/reinstalling an earpad?


----------



## BenF (Nov 12, 2018)

Mozartaudio said:


> More then loud enough with my 009 and Lambda's, never under powered. Like this amp-dac very much !!!!



Last Sunday @justin w. has generously hosted me in his new shop for the electrostatic part of my headphone battle royale.


Spoiler: Dynamic/Isodynamic



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tak...scussion-thread.849965/page-153#post-14574143
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tak...scussion-thread.849965/page-153#post-14583163
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tak...scussion-thread.849965/page-153#post-14588623



I tested a lot of equipment, and D10 sounded great with 90% of tracks on 009, but sometimes it wouldn't get loud enough, or get choked on the bass.





Can you see the rivers of blood flowing?


----------



## biscottino

miko64 said:


> 5) But overall D10 alone is the better solution when traveling on the airplane
> 
> Btw - somebody asked whether I travel with electrosts? - Yes



It would be nice to use an electrostat in an airplane, but only if I had a 4070


----------



## nepherte (Nov 12, 2018)

Velomane said:


> @bmichels
> Thanks for the post. Some very useful information there. Is it true that Belgians are legally obligated to own Tintin toys?


That together with beer, chocolates and waffles. Any hatred against the aforementioned is cause for deportation. Although technically speaking, @bmichels is French


----------



## nepherte (Nov 12, 2018)

double post.


----------



## Rhamnetin

PointyFox said:


> Does anyone know if there are Stax headphones more transparent than the SR-007A? I kind of want it to sound like the sound is coming from elsewhere and not an inch or two from my ears. It's pretty similar to the other TOTL headphones I've heard, but I'd imagine it could be better.  Also, I've seen the instructions on how to remove the earpads, but they're not clear to me. Does anyone know of any videos of someone removing/reinstalling an earpad?



The SR-009, but it sounds like you need speakers instead.


----------



## bmichels

Taking advantage of the Chinese 11/11, I ordered a set of 4 Matched* PSVANE  EL34PH for my BHSE *to test against my curent Mullard that were shipped with the Amp.   

I will kept you posted...


----------



## miko64

biscottino said:


> It would be nice to use an electrostat in an airplane, but only if I had a 4070



Indeed would be nice to use Stax in the airplane. What I am using is either the bravo oamt-1c or the shure 1500.


----------



## Eich1eeF (Nov 12, 2018)

PointyFox said:


> Does anyone know if there are Stax headphones more transparent than the SR-007A? I kind of want it to sound like the sound is coming from elsewhere and not an inch or two from my ears.


Some products, that, when paired with basically any decent pair of Stax headphones, may get you that kind of experience: STAX ED-1, OOYH, Creative Super-XFI, Smyth A8 or A16.



> Also, I've seen the instructions on how to remove the earpads, but they're not clear to me. Does anyone know of any videos of someone removing/reinstalling an earpad?



Here's a video where someone's peeling off the pads and putting them back on of a 007 during a review. I don't see the metal wire thing that connects the pads to the phones, but they should be rather obvious if you remove your own pads:


----------



## HoloSpice

Rhamnetin said:


> The SR-009, but it sounds like you need speakers instead.


Nah, he just needs better amp/source to wake them up!


----------



## PointyFox

Eich1eeF said:


> Some products, that, when paired with basically any decent pair of Stax headphones, may get you that kind of experience: STAX ED-1, OOYH, Creative Super-XFI, Smyth A8 or A16.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a video where someone's peeling off the pads and putting them back on of a 007 during a review. I don't see the metal wire thing that connects the pads to the phones, but they should be rather obvious if you remove your own pads:




That was very helpful, thanks!


----------



## Magol79

I'm looking into a desktop solution. This would be mainly for my L700, but I also want it to be somewhat capable at driving the 009 and 007 mk2. My question is: how good/bad is the srm-d50 compared to something like the kgsshv?


----------



## wink

How good is spam compared to a nice bacon rasher...?






..


----------



## Magol79 (Nov 14, 2018)

wink said:


> How good is spam compared to a nice bacon rasher...?



Since almost no one on this board seems to have heard the SRM-D50 I'd appreciate any actual impressions of it, especially in comparison to the lower KG designs, i.e. KGSS/KGSShv.
If anyone has insights into the technical merits of the SRM-D50, that would also be helpful. Does it have a regulated psu? How is the output stage designed?

I'm a beginner when it comes to understanding electrostatic headphone amplifiers, but I would like to better understand what choices Stax made when they built this unit.


----------



## PointyFox

Some pictures of the inside of the SRM-D50


----------



## kevin gilmore (Nov 14, 2018)

The D50 is identical to the srm717 design, simplified greatly (single output transistors) and running at lower voltages and lower output stage current.
resistor current sources for 3rd stage voltage gain stage.
The high voltage supplies are not regulated. The +/-15 are 3 terminal regulators as is the low voltage for the dac board.
the amplifier is actually balanced input, but the minus input is grounded, the pot is a 2 section and the inputs are rca unbalanced only.


----------



## Magol79

kevin gilmore said:


> The D50 is identical to the srm717 design, simplified greatly (single output transistors) and running at lower voltages and lower output stage current.
> resistor current sources for 3rd stage voltage gain stage.
> The high voltage supplies are not regulated. The +/-15 are 3 terminal regulators as is the low voltage for the dac board.
> the amplifier is actually balanced input, but the minus input is grounded, the pot is a 2 section and the inputs are rca unbalanced only.


Thank you, concise and informative. It's off my list for now. I will probably go with something from Spritzer instead, he has some nice compact builds.


----------



## PointyFox

Huge difference in price though. 

Also, can anyone explain what KG said?


----------



## astrostar59

PointyFox said:


> Huge difference in price though.
> 
> Also, can anyone explain what KG said?



Basically the D50 is a very simplified design with less performance. I would say with confidence no Stax made amplifiers get to the levels of the KGSS, KGSShv (your amp) Carbon or BHSE. So in other words IMO forget Stax amps, and source a nice KG amp built by a good DIYer.


----------



## PointyFox

I have a D50 and it already provides a ton of bass. What kind of improvement is typical going from a Stax to a KG amp?


----------



## astrostar59

PointyFox said:


> I have a D50 and it already provides a ton of bass. What kind of improvement is typical going from a Stax to a KG amp?



It's not 'just' FR. It is dynamics, timbre, detail without harshness or edge, more realistic tonality, wider soundstage. I have had 3 previous Stax amps and heard most of the units pre 2014, and they are IMO dynamically restricted in comparison. Less so on the 009, as that is less hungry than the 007, but the 009 on my SRM-717 was cold and clinical sounding to my ears.

Can you try find an owner near you to try a KG amp out? If I was going back to Stax and had the budget, I would buy the BHSE and have done with it, you can always return it if not amazed....


----------



## Zoide

astrostar59 said:


> It's not 'just' FR. It is dynamics, timbre, detail without harshness or edge, more realistic tonality, wider soundstage. I have had 3 previous Stax amps and heard most of the units pre 2014, and they are IMO dynamically restricted in comparison. Less so on the 009, as that is less hungry than the 007, but the 009 on my SRM-717 was cold and clinical sounding to my ears.
> 
> Can you try find an owner near you to try a KG amp out? If I was going back to Stax and had the budget, I would buy the BHSE and have done with it, you can always return it if not amazed....


That's interesting. Just a few pages back, people were raving about the tiny STAX D10 amplifier, and now I'm hearing that the legendary SRM-717 is cold and clinical, while the newer D50 has an inferior design


----------



## PointyFox

My 007A with D50 is anything but cold and clinical. I wouldn't mind it being a bit more.


----------



## purk

PointyFox said:


> My 007A with D50 is anything but cold and clinical. I wouldn't mind it being a bit more.



Because the 007/009 are so good and very transparent, any improvement in amplification will be easy to discern.  I'm very happy listening to the D10 but my big rig is still a whole lot better.


----------



## PointyFox

purk said:


> Because the 007/009 are so good and very transparent, any improvement in amplification will be easy to discern.  I'm very happy listening to the D10 but my big rig is still a whole lot better.



The Law of Increasing Returns?


----------



## kevin gilmore

the D10 is a very different design from the d50. unfortunately it has limited voltage swing, so it won't play as loud, but it is actually push pull so it has a better high end.
The D10 with sr-002 and the shure kse1500 are my favorite portable electrostatics. Both beat the koss and kingsound by a wide margin.
See elsewhere for pictures on the new monoprice electrostatic portable. Absolutely awful and a waste of money.


----------



## biscottino

Magol79 said:


> Since almost no one on this board seems to have heard the SRM-D50 I'd appreciate any actual impressions of it, especially in comparison to the lower KG designs, i.e. KGSS/KGSShv.
> If anyone has insights into the technical merits of the SRM-D50, that would also be helpful. Does it have a regulated psu? How is the output stage designed?
> 
> I'm a beginner when it comes to understanding electrostatic headphone amplifiers, but I would like to better understand what choices Stax made when they built this unit.



I listened to the d50 and the d10 that I then bought, I also have a carbon.
The d50 is a clever solution to enter the Stax world, has a decent dac, albeit with a low gain and a powerful and cheeky amplification section.
Certainly the performances of the Carbon + Merging Nadac are not discussed, they are the top, but they cost 15 times more.


----------



## Zoide

kevin gilmore said:


> the D10 is a very different design from the d50. unfortunately it has limited voltage swing, so it won't play as loud, but it is actually push pull so it has a better high end.
> The D10 with sr-002 and the shure kse1500 are my favorite portable electrostatics. Both beat the koss and kingsound by a wide margin.
> See elsewhere for pictures on the new monoprice electrostatic portable. Absolutely awful and a waste of money.



That's good to know, thanks!

How would the SRM-D10 compare to the SRM-323S? I have the latter and listen at what apparently are low volumes (only 2-3 out of 10 on the volume dial when listening to Google Play Music via an ODAC).


----------



## purk

PointyFox said:


> The Law of Increasing Returns?


Yup, especially for top end electrostats.


----------



## astrostar59

PointyFox said:


> The Law of Increasing Returns?



I would recommend getting a demo somehow with a KG amp, then use your own ears. Advice on here is great. but that will be the only way you can decide for yourself wether the cost of a better amp matches the performance increase you expect. No point in pushing back until you hear it. Maybe at a local meet or a buddy near you? Or be bold and just buy a used KG amp. You can always sell it after for probably no loss, as long as it is well built and in good condition. That is my advice. I will bet you won't sell it mind. I left the Stax amps a long time ago...


----------



## Mozartaudio

We can be pleased that Stax did these two products: D10 & D50. High quality design and product. With integrated dac and acceptable prices + Guarantee. 
Extremely balanced and transparent sound. 
Make a blind test with other combinations of amplifiers and dacs, and you'll be surprised with the result.
Both amplifiers have very little of their own sound. That's the biggest advantage.


----------



## purk

Mozartaudio said:


> We can be pleased that Stax did these two products: D10 & D50. High quality design and product. With integrated dac and acceptable prices + Guarantee.
> Extremely balanced and transparent sound.
> Make a blind test with other combinations of amplifiers and dacs, and you'll be surprised with the result.
> Both amplifiers have very little of their own sound. That's the biggest advantage.



They are great and I have both of them in house.  The D50 is a completed package and does benefit from even better source.  Still, I find it was easy to discern the improvement from my Headamp Aristaeus and KGSSHV Carbon.  The improvement is very immediate.  Still at an asking price, the D50 is really a good deal.


----------



## PointyFox

I like the VU meter


----------



## Nomax

.....IMO the D50 is a really good deal.....and with the SR-009S it sounds fantastic

Here a video from me...it's in German because my English is not the best LOL



NOMAX


----------



## biscottino

Nomax said:


> .....IMO the D50 is a really good deal.....and with the SR-009S it sounds fantastic
> 
> Here a video from me...it's in German because my English is not the best LOL
> 
> ...




yes, I agree, I had a good impression of the combo d50 + 009S!
I do not understand these negative comments on Stax products and why we recommend anyway regardless of alternative products, the people who make these comments have listened to this D50, or speak because so wants the Mafia Stax?
Let's talk about a dac / amp that takes home a little more than 1000 €.


----------



## alota

about kg design amplifiers, for example, for me it´s impossible to listen an amplifier where i live. for miracle(thanks to portugues distributor), i could hear the 009 with the top tube stax amplifier


----------



## biscottino

alota said:


> for miracle(thanks to portugues distributor), i could hear the 009 with the top tube stax amplifier



t8000?


----------



## alota

No. I tried many years ago. I don't remember the name


----------



## purk

biscottino said:


> yes, I agree, I had a good impression of the combo d50 + 009S!
> I do not understand these negative comments on Stax products and why we recommend anyway regardless of alternative products, the people who make these comments have listened to this D50, or speak because so wants the Mafia Stax?
> Let's talk about a dac / amp that takes home a little more than 1000 €.



I am glad that Stax bring both the D10, and D50 to the table.  Though not perfect, they are indeed very versatile and well priced products.  Sound wise, the KGSSHV is significantly better.  I was wanting to buy both the D10 and D50 when I have them here at home for the audition.  Thank goodness, common sense did prevail.  If you already have a really good DAC, I would by pass the D50 internal DAC or go with the 353x or better jump to the KGSSHV from mjolnir.  One can buy a KGSShV for less than $2500 these days.


----------



## Hubert481

>>One can buy a KGSShV for less than $2500 these days
Where?


----------



## protoss

Hubert481 said:


> >>One can buy a KGSShV for less than $2500 these days
> Where?



Used and Chinese made ones


----------



## VRacer-111

Hubert481 said:


> >>One can buy a KGSShV for less than $2500 these days
> Where?



Mjolnir Audio...$2300+ shipping.

https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/


----------



## Whitigir

protoss said:


> Used and Chinese made ones


Used, yes
Chinese made ? No...LOL



VRacer-111 said:


> Mjolnir Audio...$2300+ shipping.
> 
> https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/


Yeah, defintely this


----------



## protoss (Nov 15, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> Used, yes
> Chinese made ? No...LOL
> 
> 
> Yeah, defintely this



O yea. For some reason I was thinking an extremely cheap one

Here it is: https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=543961961161

$1000.00


----------



## protoss

Even there Mega and T2 is dirt cheap

T2 $5000
Mega $2500
KGSSHV $1000


----------



## bearFNF (Nov 15, 2018)

Hubert481 said:


> >>One can buy a KGSShV for less than $2500 these days
> Where?


LOL got ninja'd...

spritzer has one for $2300
https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/


----------



## PointyFox

Only on Head-Fi is $5000 considered "dirt cheap".


----------



## SeaWo|f

when the taobao T2 explodes and burns itself to the ground you will know where the rest of the money for a T2 comes into play.


----------



## protoss

LOL


----------



## Rhamnetin (Nov 15, 2018)

Hubert481 said:


> >>One can buy a KGSShV for less than $2500 these days
> Where?



https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/

- EDIT: Dun goofed


----------



## Hubert481

bearFNF said:


> LOL got ninja'd...
> 
> spritzer has one for $2300
> https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/


+shipping
+tax
+problems if the unit is broken and there is no local service


----------



## alota

with this prices called dirty cheap, i understand that i´m under the limits of poverty LOL


----------



## Zoide

I think it's kind of crazy to spend 2X the cost of the earspeakers (e.g., SR-L700) on the amp :O


----------



## smodtactical

Is there any planar or dynamics that can match the speed and precision of 009?


----------



## Thaudiophile

smodtactical said:


> Is there any planar or dynamics that can match the speed and precision of 009?


Utopia comes close but it doesn't match 009 or even 007 in speed and precision.


----------



## rattler

In my opinion, Fostex TH900 MK2 may come close in terms of Speed... but way behind in terms of Precision


----------



## Rhamnetin

So far none have really come close in speed when the SR-009 is paired with a fast, revealing system, and I would say only the Abyss might have hopes of coming somewhat close. I will find out for sure next month.


----------



## Whitigir

PointyFox said:


> Only on Head-Fi is $5000 considered "dirt cheap".



Dude .... a KG-T2 cost about $8K in parts, and whatever brain cells you have to work on it and make it sing....given that one has enough brain cell for it.  I just run out of words...lol...if you have a T2, it is a unicorn that just can not easily be found, and years down the road it would still be legendary performer but then it really would have gone extincted as parts can’t be found to build it anymore 

How long did it take people to adapt into BHSE and really be jaws dropped over it ?....a long time!


----------



## PointyFox (Nov 17, 2018)

I demoed the Abyss and didn't find anything special about it other than its weird look and lack of comfort.


Whitigir said:


> Dude .... a KG-T2 cost about $8K in parts, and whatever brain cells you have to work on it and make it sing....given that one has enough brain cell for it.  I just run out of words...lol...if you have a T2, it is a unicorn that just can not easily be found, and years down the road it would still be legendary performer but then it really would have gone extincted as parts can’t be found to build it anymore
> 
> How long did it take people to adapt into BHSE and really be jaws dropped over it ?....a long time!



I... .... What?


----------



## kevin gilmore

I remember spending about $4.5k in parts for my T2 with a RK50. But that was a while ago.


----------



## phaeton70 (Nov 17, 2018)

smodtactical said:


> Is there any planar or dynamics that can match the speed and precision of 009?



when matched with the right amp (and source) Utopia is very close to the speed of the 009, almost at the same level. but it will give you much less soundstage, and some less bass extension and slam... yes, correct ...  IMHO 009 has better bass at least with the T1W while with the GG bass is very similar between the two (with SED =C= .... JJ 6CA7 are on their way home, I will try next week if they can give more bass to the GG)


----------



## georgep

kevin gilmore said:


> I remember spending about $4.5k in parts for my T2 with a RK50. But that was a while ago.



yeah, just about 9 years.


----------



## Zoide

Nomax said:


> .....IMO the D50 is a really good deal.....and with the SR-009S it sounds fantastic
> 
> Here a video from me...it's in German because my English is not the best LOL
> 
> ...



Nice setup! How are you connecting the iPad to the amp/DAC? It would be nice to put together a convenient rig like that for my SR-L700


----------



## alota

kevin gilmore said:


> I remember spending about $4.5k in parts for my T2 with a RK50. But that was a while ago.


I paid some years ago from Justin an alps rk50 around 900 dollars


----------



## tigon_ridge

Um...so besides balance, how do different quality pots affect sound? $900 for a passive component seems rather excessive, even for a $7k amp. People have mentioned the "sonic signature" aspect, but to me that's not far from the "normal copper vs .9999999999 purity cryo-crystalline-blahty-blah" claims. Will mere mortal ears detect the difference without having to concentrate on very specific aspects of the sound while listening?


----------



## Jones Bob (Nov 17, 2018)

tigon_ridge said:


> Um...so besides balance, how do different quality pots affect sound? $900 for a passive component seems rather excessive, even for a $7k amp. People have mentioned the "sonic signature" aspect, but to me that's not far from the "normal copper vs .9999999999 purity cryo-crystalline-blahty-blah" claims. Will mere mortal ears detect the difference without having to concentrate on very specific aspects of the sound while listening?



From my experience, yes.


----------



## georgep

tigon_ridge said:


> Um...so besides balance, how do different quality pots affect sound? $900 for a passive component seems rather excessive, even for a $7k amp. People have mentioned the "sonic signature" aspect, but to me that's not far from the "normal copper vs .9999999999 purity cryo-crystalline-blahty-blah" claims. Will mere mortal ears detect the difference without having to concentrate on very specific aspects of the sound while listening?



On the hierarchy of components most likely to affect the sound (negatively) of an amplifier, particularly one where there are no capacitors in the signal path, the volume control is either #1 or as close to #1 as you can possibly get. That said, I am not sure if I could tell the difference between a high quality TKD volume pot and an Alps RK50 - but then again I never tried building two otherwise identical amplifiers to test this out. But when you are talking the T2, putting in something less is like putting all season tires on a Ferrari.


----------



## alota (Nov 17, 2018)

tigon_ridge said:


> Um...so besides balance, how do different quality pots affect sound? $900 for a passive component seems rather excessive, even for a $7k amp. People have mentioned the "sonic signature" aspect, but to me that's not far from the "normal copper vs .9999999999 purity cryo-crystalline-blahty-blah" claims. Will mere mortal ears detect the difference without having to concentrate on very specific aspects of the sound while listening?


Madness from my young age. Now i' m normal LOL.
Jokes apart the rk50 is really good but a normal blue alps is good too. I like very much the dact stepped attenuator


----------



## PointyFox

Jones Bob said:


> From my experience, yes.



From my experience absolutely not.


----------



## Jones Bob (Nov 17, 2018)

georgep said:


> On the hierarchy of components most likely to affect the sound (negatively) of an amplifier, particularly one where there are no capacitors in the signal path, the volume control is either #1 or as close to #1 as you can possibly get. That said, I am not sure if I could tell the difference between a high quality TKD volume pot and an Alps RK50 - but then again I never tried building two otherwise identical amplifiers to test this out. But when you are talking the T2, putting in something less is like putting all season tires on a Ferrari.



In direct comparison in my GG, I preferred a TKD 2500 to the RK50 I sold you awhile back George. Not exactly apples to apples as the TKD was a 10K impedance and the RK50 a 50K unit. But enough SQ difference for me to let the ALPS pot go. Currently, I’m using a  TDK 4CP-601 10K as the shunt element with a naked Vishay Z foil TX-2575 resistor in a series-shunt configuration. Bests everything, even a Slagle autoformer attenuator in that spot.



PointyFox said:


> From my experience absolutely not.



OK.


----------



## tigon_ridge

georgep said:


> On the hierarchy of components most likely to affect the sound (negatively) of an amplifier, particularly one where there are no capacitors in the signal path, the volume control is either #1 or as close to #1 as you can possibly get. That said, I am not sure if I could tell the difference between a high quality TKD volume pot and an Alps RK50 - but then again I never tried building two otherwise identical amplifiers to test this out. But when you are talking the T2, putting in something less is like putting all season tires on a Ferrari.



The TKD cp-2500 is at least priced reasonably. I don't care if the T2 is worthy $100k; if a $900 part adds nothing discernible upon a $100 part, it's just a waste of money. Of course it's also important to consider the durability of components.


----------



## SeaWo|f

alota said:


> Madness from my young age. Now i' m normal LOL.
> Jokes apart the rk50 is really good but a normal blue alps is good too. I like very much the dact stepped attenuator



I have heard all three, unfortunately in amps form different builders. Each individual amp sounded superb FWIW.

The RK50 definitely feels the part if you ever get to handle it. Just from a physical presence stand point I have no problem dealing out the cash for it.

I have heard that the dact steppers can get noisy as they age, but I have never experienced this as i have never had an amp with one.

khozmo has some interesting products too, I have talked to a few people who were really happy with their steppers. I have never heard one though.


----------



## georgep

tigon_ridge said:


> The TKD cp-2500 is at least priced reasonably. I don't care if the T2 is worthy $100k; if a $900 part adds nothing discernible upon a $100 part, it's just a waste of money. Of course it's also important to consider the durability of components.



Sure, but you don't know if it adds (or more importantly) or doesn't subtract. And with the rk50, that is beyond build quality, balance, proper log, etc.

Khozmo does have some interesting products, but I don't know anyone who has remains happy with their products for very long.


----------



## statfi

Jones Bob said:


> In direct comparison in my GG, I preferred a TKD 2500 to the RK50 I sold you awhile back George. Not exactly apples to apples as the TKD was a 10K impedance and the RK50 a 50K unit. But enough SQ difference for me to let the ALPS pot go. Currently, I’m using a TDK 4CP-601 10K as the shunt element with a naked Vishay Z foil TX-2575 resistor in a series-shunt configuration. Bests everything, even a Slagle autoformer attenuator in that spot.


Thanks for these details.  Could you give more details as to why you "preferred" the TKD 2500 and how it "bests" the Slagle?


----------



## statfi

https://khozmo.com is interesting.  They offer three different topologies and show the circuit diagrams if you cruise around their pages.  For many years I worked at radio frequencies, where the practice is to take great care in operating at 50 ohms everywhere there is a connection.  So an attenuator ("volume control") has 50 ohm input and output impedances if it is properly fed and loaded by 50 ohm lines.  Has anyone (e.g., Kevin, Justin, ...  !-) tried this in audio, or is it obviously over kill.  Attenuators use either a "pi" or a "T" topology, with 3 resistors: 3 equations for attenuation, input and output impedance, with three resistance values as unknowns.  So, a down side is that either requires 2 switch contacts.


----------



## alota

I had first version of khozmo. Sold immediately due to poor manufacturing. I don't know the actual series


----------



## Jones Bob (Nov 18, 2018)

statfi said:


> Thanks for these details.  Could you give more details as to why you "preferred" the TKD 2500 and how it "bests" the Slagle?



Both are damn good. I preferred the TKD 4CP 2500 10K to the ALPS RK50 50K in direct comparison in the same Gilmore designed Grounded Grid amp listening to STAX SR-009. The TKD was slightly more transparent with a more defined and deeper bass presentation. The ALPS was slightly more veiled. The difference could be attributed to the different impedance load between the two I guess, but IDK for sure. Costs aside, I just liked this TDK a little better.

Earlier when I was running just the RK50, for the hell of it I tried using it as the shunt element with a Vishay RN60 load resistor. After a short audition, I rewired the RK50 back conventionally. The single RN60 was just too dirty sounding.

Over 25 years ago when the Oregon Triode Society was active, I was involved in many listening sessions when writer Ian Joel was resurrecting the idea of a series shunt passive attenuator for audio. Lots, and I mean LOTS, of potentiometers and resistor combinations were assembled with listening evaluations by all over many months. As these were passive boxes with inputs and output cables to drive there are impedance mismatch issues. The best consistently sounding units were made by Ian. He would not tell us the load resistor, make or value, but he did share he used a common Radio Shack $2 ALPs 10K pot. Those were actually really sounding good stand alone pots. Too bad Radio Shack is kaput. I played around with these for many years, mostly using a Riken in my tube based system in those days. Later used Caddock metal foil for some SS amps.

Over the years I also bought and tried many other pots, Noble, ALPS RK27 and RK40, PEC. All OK but each a different flavor -none seemed really transparent to the signal as the series shunt attenuators were. Also tried an early DACT 10K stepped attenuator. Meh sounding..... and I did not like the rough step resolution either.

Later I bought and tried one of Dave Slagle’s basic Intact Audio AVCs. That elevated the SQ a level or two higher than what I had used to up to that point. But it with courser steps and the wiring was a spaghetti monstrosity. Ended up deciding it was not practical for me. His designs have evolved, especially his work with Chapman Audio, but the really good stuff is really expensive these days. Especially for a balanced signal.

So, back to the GG. From my experience of what the single RN60 load resistor sounded like (with the RK50 used as s shunt), I figured to play around with resistors. The most revealing place would be in the NFB loop of the amp, so I replaced the RN60s I originally used there with mucho expensive TX2575 Z Foil Vishays. I had tried S102 Vishays years earlier as a series resistor in an attenuator and came to really hate them. They stripped the harmonics from the music and bleached out the sound. Even after a long run in, they gave me an instant headache. But these TX2575 were getting great press. Soldering then into the amp, they made an instant positive improvement. Seemed like the noise floor dropped along with grit and grain with more natural detail retrieval and body to the music. So I decided to try them in a series shunt attenuator. I would have liked to used the TKD 2500, but the way it is internally configured, it cannot be used as a shunt element. So I bought the cheaper TKD 601 to use. Soldered up with a TX2575 as the series. I did not directly compare to my Slagle AVC in this amp, but from memory they both share a similar effortless, grainless, and full scale dynamic that I have not heard in any other attenuators. The TX2575/TKD 601 series shunt attenuator is IMO at least the equal in SQ to the Slagle AVC and the clear winner on cost, infinitely variable, and package size.  Best I’ve found and used so far.


----------



## staticdynamo

This is STAX thread, so I can't understand talking about third party amplifier. If one use non-STAX amplifiers, the warranty of STAX headphones will be void.
If I were a man working for STAX, I don't want to repair STAX headphones which had been driven by non-STAX amplifiers. 
Anyway, about low-costed,small STAX, good news will come out before the end of this year. Long-waited things will be released. 
They are in production.


----------



## raband

You must be fun at parties 

What sort of performance will the new, low cost offering provide?


----------



## JimL11 (Nov 19, 2018)

staticdynamo said:


> This is STAX thread, so I can't understand talking about third party amplifier. If one use non-STAX amplifiers, the warranty of STAX headphones will be void.
> If I were a man working for STAX, I don't want to repair STAX headphones which had been driven by non-STAX amplifiers.
> Anyway, about low-costed,small STAX, good news will come out before the end of this year. Long-waited things will be released.
> They are in production.



As a matter of fact, the SRX-Plus is a Stax circuit, upgraded with current technology, and all the designed-in Stax safety features. All the Gilmore designs also have all the designed-in Stax safety features to prevent damage to the headphones. These consist primarily of specific safety resistors in the bias supply and outputs, and limited power capability in the bias supply. This is NOT true of other third party designs. Also, the amp which has the most drive current and voltage potential is the original Stax T2. This is matched by the DIY T2 that Kevin Gilmore was authorized by Stax to clone. AFAIK, none of the other third party amps can match the T2 in voltage and current drive.

The reason for discussing third party amps is that some are interested in achieving the best possible sound from their Stax headphones. Stax amplifiers generally have well-designed circuits, but are limited by their size, weight, and cost by commercial considerations. For example, the size and weight limits how much heat sink they can fit in, which in turn limits the amount of standing current - in some cases that can prevent the circuit devices from running at their most linear operating point. Cost limits the Stax amps to using unregulated high voltage supplies, whereas the DIY T2, Gilmore designs and SRX-Plus use regulated power supplies, which improves the sound. And so on.


----------



## PointyFox (Nov 19, 2018)

Regarding all this talk about regulated power supplies improving sound and Stax amps being junk because they use unregulated power supplies, check this out:

https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1278195

What I got from it is that unregulated has generally better audio quality (less interference, better power delivery on transient peaks) except in the cases of running the amplifier into clipping or when you have wildly-fluctuating mains voltage, neither of which should be happening and can be corrected in other ways.

(Unregulated power supplies are also cheaper, more reliable, produce less heat, and use less electricity).


----------



## JimL11 (Nov 19, 2018)

Um, no. An unregulated supply that has the same output voltage as a regulated supply will ALWAYS put out LESS power on peaks, because the peaks will cause the power supply to drop its voltage to some extent - the longer the peak lasts, the more the power supply voltage will drop. This is why a popular modification to a commercial amp is to put in more power supply capacitors - it doesn't increase the power supply voltage, but it does increase the power supply reserve so that the voltage drops less with power demands.

Second, fluctuations in the power supply can also cause spurious signals in the amplifier - the degree to which this happens depends on the ability of the amplifier circuit to reject noise and crap from the power supply. In fact, if you look at the specifications for any op amp, one of them will be the "power supply rejection ratio", which is actually frequency dependent. This is not limited to op amps - any amp will have a similar profile, it's just that most audio amps don't have a specification listed. But rest assured, it does exist.

A perfectly regulated supply produces no noise and no spurious signals. Also, while mains voltages can vary when there is a transient load - for example, if you are listening and the air conditioning turns on, this can cause a drop in the AC voltage which can sometimes cause a thumping sound in the amplifier. This can easily be measured or seen if you look at the AC voltage with an oscilloscope. It will also show transients from air conditioners, refrigerators, etc. turning on and off anywhere your AC power shares wiring with any other houses on your block.

It is true that a regulated power supply has more elements than a simple unregulated supply, but a well designed one is no less reliable than the amplifier it is supplying. If you were that concerned about reliability you wouldn't listen to recorded music at all because any amplifier could fail.

I never said Stax amps are junk. To the contrary, I said "Stax amps generally have well-designed circuits, but are limited in size, weight and cost..." Don't misquote me in order to set up a straw-man argument. Commercial considerations are important for a company which wishes to continue to exist. On the other hand, DIY designs can be more free of cost, size and weight considerations and thus more closely approach ideal solutions. There is a place for both - just don't mistake the priorities of one for those of the other.


----------



## PointyFox (Nov 19, 2018)

JimL11 said:


> Um, no. An unregulated supply that has the same output voltage as a regulated supply will ALWAYS put out LESS power on peaks, because the peaks will cause the power supply to drop its voltage to some extent - the longer the peak lasts, the more the power supply voltage will drop. This is why a popular modification to a commercial amp is to put in more power supply capacitors - it doesn't increase the power supply voltage, but it does increase the power supply reserve so that the voltage drops less with power demands.
> 
> Second, fluctuations in the power supply can also cause spurious signals in the amplifier - the degree to which this happens depends on the ability of the amplifier circuit to reject noise and crap from the power supply. In fact, if you look at the specifications for any op amp, one of them will be the "power supply rejection ratio", which is actually frequency dependent. This is not limited to op amps - any amp will have a similar profile, it's just that most audio amps don't have a specification listed. But rest assured, it does exist.
> 
> ...



Don't misquote me either. I didn't say it was you who said they were junk. It's something I've seen a few times in this thread. Accusing me of setting up a strawman argument is setting one up of your own. 

Why would that article list a disadvantage of regulated power supplies as "The amplifier can no longer deliver higher power on transient peaks."?


----------



## JimL11

PointyFox said:


> Why would that article list a disadvantage of regulated power supplies as "The amplifier can no longer deliver higher power on transient peaks."?



The reason is as follows: as I stated, an unregulated power supply's voltage will drop to some degree as the amp draws more power from it. So, for example, suppose we have an amplifier with unregulated power supply which is rated at 100 watts into 8 ohms, and another amplifier with regulated power supply which is rated the same. 

For the unregulated amp, the power supply is +50/-50  volts, which decreases to +/-42 volts at full power. For the regulated amp, the power supply is +42/-42 volts all the time.

Now, since music usually does not play at full power, normally the unregulated amp's power supply sits at close to its quiescent level, which is +50/-50 volts. Along comes a transient. Initially, the unregulated amp is able to put out more than 100 watts - say 130 watts - because it has higher power supply voltages - however, as time goes on (we are talking 10s of milliseconds here), the power supply voltage sags down to +42/-42 volts and the amplifier can only put out 100 watts after a short interval. Thus, the unregulated amplifier is able to put out a higher power for a short period of time, but eventually physics catches up with it and it can only supply 100 watts on a continuous basis. Once the transient has passed, the power supply can build itself up to +50/-50 volts again for the next transient. Note that this change in power supply voltage with the transient will affect, to some degree, the ability of the unregulated amp's ability  to faithfully amplify the signal. An obvious way this happens is if the transient continues at the same level, it's initial peak will be reproduced at 130 watts but its continuation will only be reproduced at 100 watts as the amp will clip during the latter part of the continuation.

On the other hand, the amp with regulated power supply, because it starts with lower power supply voltages, can only put out 100 watts - but, it can put it out on a short term basis, or continuously. That is why an unregulated power supply allows an amp to put out more power than its continuous rating. So the regulated amp will clip on the first part of a transient at a slightly lower level than the unregulated amp, but as long as you play it below clipping, it will reproduce a prolonged transient more faithfully.

A classic example of this behavior is the original NAD 3020, which was rated at 20 watts/channel continuous into 8 ohms, but could put out 40 watts into transients for a short period of time. However, if you were to take the exact same circuit but run it with a regulated power supply set at the same quiescent voltages as the original design, it could have been rated at 40 watts continuous power. It would also have cost much more for the regulated power supply, and also probably for larger heatsinks to tolerate it being run at 40 watts. The original 3020 is an example of cost-effective design using a "soft" unregulated power supply, and takes advantage of two facts: first, that transients are brief and relatively rare occurrences and second, that the ear is relatively tolerant of distortion on peaks. The significant words here are "cost-effective." For example, the Mark Levinson ML-2 was also rated at 25 watts/channel, however, it had a regulated power supply, ran in class A, weighed 65 lbs for each mono amp, could put 100 watts/channel into 2 ohms, and cost a lot more. Consensus opinion is that the NAD sounds very good for the price. The ML2 sounds better.


----------



## tigon_ridge

If you take the regulator out of the circuit, you can supply more power; because the regulator itself is dissipating heat at a constant rate. All that means is that you need a bigger PS, if you want to more cleanly render the same transient with a regulated signal. In the context of headphone amplification, here is nothing in a regulated design itself that makes it inherently less capable of producing transients; you just pay more for the bigger, bulkier PS.


----------



## kevin gilmore

electrostatic amps are very different from dynamic amplifiers.

For example the original stax T2 did not have regulated power supplies. The offset servo had a very small operating range. As much as a 2% line voltage change would clip the servo and the output DC voltage
could be as much as +/-30V. People that own one of these have found out the hard way when changing tubes that adjustments are extremely difficult.

The T8000 has a highly regulated high voltage to drive the input tube. Without this power supply the amp would not work.


----------



## staticdynamo (Nov 19, 2018)

My information is true. Don't you know the small STAX earphone? Are you all looking at the most expensive headphone of STAX？
STAX is not such a maker. The people at STAX love their products and steadily make new products. The new products associated
 STAX earphone will be released, I say.


----------



## Jones Bob

staticdynamo said:


> My information is true. Don't you know the small STAX earphone? Are you all looking at the most expensive headphone of STAX？
> STAX is not such a maker. The people at STAX love their products and steadily make new products. The new products associated
> STAX earphone will be released, I say.



Looking forward to any new STAX products.


----------



## Lord Rexter

Just hoping for STAX to release the closed back version of the STAX SR-003mk2


----------



## rpeebles

Lord Rexter said:


> Just hoping for STAX to release the closed back version of the STAX SR-003mk2



Uhh...that would be nice !! Any chance, for those who know ?


----------



## Zoide

One of the RCA input jacks on my SRM-323S is a bit loose, likely as a result of removing a very tight-fitting cable some days ago.

Is it relatively safe to open the case and tighten up the jack? (I'm hoping there is a nut holding it against the case from the inside)

Thanks


----------



## Scgorg

Turn it off and let it stay off for a few minutes so you avoid any current rush, and then it should be safe as far as I know. None of the components in the 323 hold charge for any extended period of time to my knowledge, thus you should be in no danger.


----------



## Zoide (Nov 19, 2018)

Scgorg said:


> Turn it off and let it stay off for a few minutes so you avoid any current rush, and then it should be safe as far as I know. None of the components in the 323 hold charge for any extended period of time to my knowledge, thus you should be in no danger.


Thanks. I opened it up and survived , but realized that there really isn't anything to tighten. Oh well, at least the jack is not *that* loose, and I discovered that the Parallel Out jacks are directly connected to the Input jacks, so I'm going to use those instead for added peace of mind.

Here are the insides of the amp in full glory, with a closeup of the jacks.

Everything looks so neat and well-soldered, by the way. A pleasure to see.

EDIT: *** the SR-L700 sound wonderful. I'm listening to Rage Against the Machine - Take the Power Back and the bass impact is amazing. These things rock!


----------



## Lord Rexter

Here's internals of STAX SRM-353X


----------



## JimL11

tigon_ridge said:


> If you take the regulator out of the circuit, you can supply more power; because the regulator itself is dissipating heat at a constant rate. All that means is that you need a bigger PS, if you want to more cleanly render the same transient with a regulated signal. In the context of headphone amplification, here is nothing in a regulated design itself that makes it inherently less capable of producing transients; you just pay more for the bigger, bulkier PS.



Another way to look at it: in order for the regulator to work, the raw power supply has to supply a higher voltage, so the regulator decreases this and maintains it at a constant level. That way, if the AC voltage decreases, the regulator can still continue to function. However, as the AC voltage continues to decrease, at some point the raw voltage will reach the regulated voltage (plus a necessary margin), below which the regulator will no longer function. The designer must decide how low the AC power supply can dip before the regulator stops working. If the designer chooses a lower AC voltage - for example to allow for lower voltages in the summer due to heavy AC use - then there is more leeway for the regulator, but on the other hand the regulator must waste more power since it is usually running at a higher raw voltage.


----------



## AudioThief

So, I'm basically done upgrading my rig until I can afford a new DAC that I deem worthwhile upgrading to, which will take a while. I am considering doing the feedback mod to my 727II amplifier. My father is an engineer, but I don't think he has ever really worked with audio equipment. Is it safe to put him on the job, and how long should the job take?


----------



## Fickle-Friend

What's the DAC inside the STAX SRM-D10 ?


----------



## Whitigir

Fickle-Friend said:


> What's the DAC inside the STAX SRM-D10 ?


Isn’t it ES9018S ?


----------



## Fickle-Friend

Whitigir said:


> Isn’t it ES9018S ?



Hiya yes I've managed to find that its ESS ES9018 DAC and uses TI OPA1642. Really wished they'd used a newer ESS DAC tbh.


----------



## statfi

Are SR-303's Pro or Normal Bias?  Thanks!


----------



## wasupdog

AudioThief said:


> So, I'm basically done upgrading my rig until I can afford a new DAC that I deem worthwhile upgrading to, which will take a while. I am considering doing the feedback mod to my 727II amplifier. My father is an engineer, but I don't think he has ever really worked with audio equipment. Is it safe to put him on the job, and how long should the job take?



It took me less than an hour including setup and cleanup.  You're just removing 4 resistors and soldering 4 new ones in.


----------



## AudioThief

wasupdog said:


> It took me less than an hour including setup and cleanup.  You're just removing 4 resistors and soldering 4 new ones in.



Thank you very much. Did you like the results, and do you have any resources I could show my father so he could perform the operation? Bluepirints of sorts


----------



## sensui123

I don't post much..... Been happy with xf2 oo getters Britain made and xf3/xf4 dd getters Holland made for a long time with the bhse.   Just landed some nos xf1 oo's..... I had no idea the bhse could scale this much with tubes... The bass, imaging, dimensionality.... It's just a whole other level.  Makes me extremely curious now about the metal base Hollands.  Some day perhaps... But these xf1s truly are unbelievable.


----------



## wasupdog




----------



## wasupdog

AudioThief said:


> Thank you very much. Did you like the results, and do you have any resources I could show my father so he could perform the operation? Bluepirints of sorts



See pic above.  When you open the case these two cards sit upright on the left and right sides towards the front of the case.  Rock gently until they pull right out.  Remove the 150k resistor towards the bottom.  You unsolder it but it's glued to the board so gently try to cut through the glue with a sharp knife or x-acto until it comes off.  Now take another 150k/1%/.5watt resistor and solder in like shown above.  

It's easier to use new resistors since you can trim the legs to fit.  The resistors are going in series so you can just solder it to the leads of the 150k resistor above it.  Read the HC thread for more info. 

I think the stock 727 is a little raucous sounding.  This mod brings the treble and bass under control.


----------



## PointyFox

Edit: Copied from the LCD-4 thread..

Just did the Spritzer BluTac mod to my SR-007A. 
I was super skeptical of it. The results actually startled me.
The headphones became much brighter with less mid-bass bloom and slightly less mid-bass impact and more transparent.
Actually a large improvement and now I can say this beats my LCD-4 setup easily. Definitely one of the best headphones in the world.

However! I now get a perfect seal on each side and this causes the drivers to flex when I put on or take off the headphones, a.k.a. "Stax fart".
Is this harmful to the drivers? It's pretty extreme. 







Edit: I was told the "Stax fart" isn't known to be harmful.  Does anyone know how the BluTack modded SR-007 Mk.2 compares to the SR-009/SR-009S?


----------



## Velomane

PointyFox said:


> Does anyone know how the BluTack modded SR-007 Mk.2 compares to the SR-009/SR-009S?



Also very interested in this.


----------



## JimL11

PointyFox said:


> Does anyone know how the BluTack modded SR-007 Mk.2 compares to the SR-009/SR-009S?



The Stax fart shouldn't be harmful to the headphones on a Stax amp, SRX-Plus or Gilmore amp, which all have bias supply safety resistors. No idea on the other amps.

Tonally the Blutak modded SR-007 Mk2 sounds less bright than the SR-009, and brighter than the SR-007 Mk1, all three compared on a BHSE. Which sounds more "accurate" is a matter of opinion - I prefer the modded 007, others prefer the 009, and some the 007 Mk1, And tonally the Utopia fits in between the modded 007 and the 009. At least, that's the way I hear it.


----------



## joseph69

JimL11 said:


> And tonally the Utopia fits in between the modded 007 and the 009. At least, that's the way I hear it.


This is the way I hear it as well.


----------



## statfi

Jones Bob said:


> ...The TX2575/TKD 601 series shunt attenuator is IMO at least the equal in SQ to the Slagle AVC and the clear winner on cost, infinitely variable, and package size.  Best I’ve found and used so far.


Thanks! Do you have a good link explaining series shunt attenuators?


----------



## Jones Bob (Nov 24, 2018)

statfi said:


> Thanks! Do you have a good link explaining series shunt attenuators?



Just found this link via Google search. Mirrors my experience. https://www.audialonline.com/topics/model-a-volume-control/
Using a TX2575 as the series resistor takes it to another level. These naked Vishay Z foil resistors are the definition of neutral.

Please note, this attenuator is ideally located internally in an amp, at the input of the first gain stage. Used in a separate box with cables, it’s performance suffers.

Running balanced it gets a little different in wiring. Too much to add here, and might confuse some.


----------



## statfi

Jones Bob said:


> Just found this link via Google search. Mirrors my experience. https://www.audialonline.com/topics/model-a-volume-control/
> Using a TX2575 as the series resistor takes it to another level. These naked Vishay Z foil resistors are the definition of neutral.
> 
> Please note, this attenuator is ideally located internally in an amp, at the input of the first gain stage. Used in a separate box with cables, it’s performance suffers.
> ...


Nice!  Thanks.  I have learned something.


----------



## astrostar59

JimL11 said:


> The Stax fart shouldn't be harmful to the headphones on a Stax amp, SRX-Plus or Gilmore amp, which all have bias supply safety resistors. No idea on the other amps.
> 
> Tonally the Blutak modded SR-007 Mk2 sounds less bright than the SR-009, and brighter than the SR-007 Mk1, all three compared on a BHSE. Which sounds more "accurate" is a matter of opinion - I prefer the modded 007, others prefer the 009, and some the 007 Mk1, And tonally the Utopia fits in between the modded 007 and the 009. At least, that's the way I hear it.



The 007 I had, a 2016 model was much better than my previous MK2 which was the black 2012 model. My silver 2015 model sounded very close to a MK1 IMO and had less of the bass bloat and smearing of treble the older Mk2 suffered from. I believe the Stax mafia have rubber stamped the latest 007?


----------



## bmichels (Nov 25, 2018)

PointyFox said:


> Edit: Copied from the LCD-4 thread..
> 
> Just did the Spritzer BluTac mod to my SR-007A.
> I was super skeptical of it. The results actually startled me.
> ...




I have an early SR007 MK1 (and a SR009  ). 

--> Does anyone know* a Mod for this version of the SR007 ? 

 
*


----------



## SeaWo|f

The current generation mkii with port mod is viewed as the best version by a few who might be in the stax mafia..

Not sure if your question about modding a mki is serious or joking. But my understanding is that all 007 mods are to get closer to the tonality of the mki?


----------



## sonics

I have the 009 pad filling mod for 007mk1 implemented by zolkis. More info found at
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods.754839/


----------



## JimL11

bmichels said:


> I have an early SR007 MK1 (and a SR009  ).
> 
> --> Does anyone know* a Mod for this version of the SR007 ?*



If you're not joking, the answer is no. The SR-007 Mk2 mod is to block the port which Stax added to eliminate the Stax "fart." The port does that, but also adds a small bump in the mid bass and a roll-off below that point. Blocking the port flattens out the bass, making it similar to the Mk1 in that respect. The Mk1 and SR-009 are already sealed so do not need that mod. Don't have any experience with the @zolkis mods.



SeaWo|f said:


> The current generation mkii with port mod is viewed as the best version by a few who might be in the stax mafia.
> 
> Not sure if your question about modding a mki is serious or joking. But my understanding is that all 007 mods are to get closer to the tonality of the mki?



While the port mod makes the Mk2 bass similar to the Mk1, the Mk2 upper frequencies decrease/eliminate the mild softness/darkness of the Mk1 to my ears.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Unfortunately I've never gotten to hear the mki and mkii back to back so I won't comment on specific differences.

 On its own merit I will agree with the JimL11 the current mkii is not laid back  up top. I would not call it forward either. I think they have got a nice balance with the current tuning. 

I can also say that I think there will be those out there who prefer the current mkii without the port mod.


----------



## staticdynamo

New item from STAX.


----------



## Magol79

staticdynamo said:


> New item from STAX.


??
Have they announced something?


----------



## alota

a subwoofer?


----------



## nazrin313

new iem from STAX!!!....called Deathstar Im guessing


----------



## raband

staticdynamo said:


> New item from STAX.



You've jumped in with comments from no where on the amps and warranty and hope for upcoming products.

Either Stax have really bad marketing, you have no idea or you work there, have inside knowledge and a really loose tongue.

Am tipping you got a hint of something, think you think something "important" is about to come out soon and need to give hints.

Given you've shown pic of cans then maybe a dynamic headphone?


----------



## staticdynamo

I know you don't read my past posts at all. I wrote about this product previously. 
And they will be released in this year. No hints. You imagine dynamic headphones?
Never.


----------



## alota

nazrin313 said:


> new iem from STAX!!!....called Deathstar Im guessing


darth vader included?


----------



## GRod

Kerry said:


> Thanks Jim
> 
> @Drewligarchy PM if you're interested


Kerry,
I'm also interested in acquiring one of your T2 builds. Tried unsuccessfully to PM you . Pease contact me.
For
Thank you,
Gilbert


----------



## miko64

Travel gear

I had to travel from London to HK today and wanted to convince you that SR007 together with d10 is ideal for travellers. Could not sleep hence this teaser.
In the past I used to travel w LCD-X or 4 together with Hugo 2. This was good but too heavy. SR007 is at least as musical with D10 as the above combo and (interestingly) more stable.
From a sound pespective next to nothing. Yes I know SR009S is slighly better, but at the same time less stable, hence for me less suited than sr7. My other current companion is Andromeda - really worth a try. I still have my obravo eamt-1c, which again is slightly better for a roughly quadruple price.
As evidence my today’s travel gear


----------



## nazrin313

miko64 said:


> Travel gear
> 
> I had to travel from London to HK today and wanted to convince you that SR007 together with d10 is ideal for travellers. Could not sleep hence this teaser.
> In the past I used to travel w LCD-X or 4 together with Hugo 2. This was good but too heavy. SR007 is at least as musical with D10 as the above combo and (interestingly) more stable.
> ...



Damn son, when Im travelling it will only be the SXC550 and the DX200 with whatever iem I feel like bringing. This is on another level lol.


----------



## GRod

Kerry said:


> Thanks Jim
> 
> @Drewligarchy PM if you're interested


Kerry,
I'm interested in acquiring one of your T2 builds. I tried unsuccessfully to PM you.
Please contact me with all of the relevant information.
Thank you.
Gilbert


----------



## HoloSpice

staticdynamo said:


> New item from STAX.


Wait.. What!? New flagship SR-011!!!???


----------



## miko64

nazrin313 said:


> Damn son, when Im travelling it will only be the SXC550 and the DX200 with whatever iem I feel like bringing. This is on another level lol.


I know ... but I am travelling so much that this effectively replaces my home stereo. I hardly have time to listen to it, expect the days I am working in London...


----------



## staticdynamo

Information released at STAX homepage. CES-A1 an option for SR-001MK2、SR-002、SR-003、SR-003MK2
will be released in the middle December in Japan. 

https://stax-international.com/products/ces-a1/


----------



## nazrin313

staticdynamo said:


> Information released at STAX homepage. CES-A1 an option for SR-001MK2、SR-002、SR-003、SR-003MK2
> will be released in the middle December in Japan.
> 
> https://stax-international.com/products/ces-a1/


knew it!!! but the name is wrong, Deathstar is the real name of this product


----------



## Lord Rexter

Nice my wish came true, now I can convert my STAX SR-003mk2 into closed back and pair with STAX SRM-D10. Furthermore use it in the office


----------



## paulchiu

Can anyone compare the old STAX SRM-007tII with the new
STAX SRM-D50 using a quality external DAC and the old
STAX SR-009?

Thanks!


----------



## Hubert481

I compared D50 with T1 on L700 with external Dac Rme adi2pro for 1 week on several days.
The T1 is much better - and the old T1 is the winner.


----------



## PointyFox

Hubert481 said:


> I compared D50 with T1 on L700 with external Dac Rme adi2pro for 1 week on several days.
> The T1 is much better - and the old T1 is the winner.



What was better about it? Do you prefer tube amps?


----------



## paulchiu

Hubert481 said:


> I compared D50 with T1 on L700 with external Dac Rme adi2pro for 1 week on several days.
> The T1 is much better - and the old T1 is the winner.



Thanks, have you tried the STAX SRM-007tII?


----------



## Hubert481

paulchiu said:


> Thanks, have you tried the STAX SRM-007tII?


No
I do not prefer tubes, but with the l700 nd t1, it is a perfect match for me - it sound more realistic, like live


----------



## PointyFox

Hubert481 said:


> No
> I do not prefer tubes, but with the l700 nd t1, it is a perfect match for me - it sound more realistic, like live



What about the SRM-D50 sounds less realistic? I'm trying to narrow down what you mean by that since it could mean a lot of different things like transparency, frequency response, etc.


----------



## purk

Hubert481 said:


> No
> I do not prefer tubes, but with the l700 nd t1, it is a perfect match for me - it sound more realistic, like live



The T1 & T1S and T1W are a better match to Lambdas design.  May not work as good with the SR009 though.


----------



## paulchiu

purk said:


> The T1 & T1S and T1W are a better match to Lambdas design.  May not work as good with the SR009 though.



Purk,
Have you tried the D50 with the old Stax SR009?  How does the combination sound?  Worth it over the STAX SRM-007tII ?
Thanks


----------



## bmichels

I just received (Shipped from AliExpres - China) a (supposed) matched set of EL34.    I am testing them now (to determine how I built the 2 "matched" pairs) and will do 2 days of burning before I compare them to the Stock Mullard that were shipped with my BHSE.

I will therefore report first listening impression in few days... (along with the listening result of my new CuriousCable USB cable)


----------



## Whitigir

Exciting! Need to know how they compare to XF2 for sure, these stuff are astronomical nowadays


----------



## bmichels

*
After 1h30 of warm-up, I have the following results for my 4 EL34 tubes. Is it good or not ? how should I match them to built the 2 pairs ?




*


----------



## Jones Bob

bmichels said:


> I just received (Shipped from AliExpres - China) a (supposed) matched set of EL34.    I am testing them now (to determine how I built the 2 "matched" pairs) and will do 2 days of burning before I compare them to the Stock Mullard that were shipped with my BHSE.



If I’m not mistaken, didn’t you purchase a quad of 1950s vintage NOS Philips metal base EL34s a while back? Wondering if you still have them and what’s your opinion of them after using them for an extended period. Thx!


----------



## bmichels

Jones Bob said:


> If I’m not mistaken, didn’t you purchase a quad of 1950s vintage NOS Philips metal base EL34s a while back? Wondering if you still have them and what’s your opinion of them after using them for an extended period. Thx!



As a matter of fact I retourned the Philips Métal base to the vendor. I was not happy with the sound, bass were inflatedn and not natural.  May be the tubes were defective ??


----------



## Jones Bob

Thanks for the answer!


----------



## Magol79 (Nov 30, 2018)

So, I regularly trawl ebay for anything stax related. A while ago I found this item: "Pawel Acoustic hp-3 Pro Monitor Headphone processor / amplifier for Stax". Does anyone know more about it? I'm just curious because I've never heard of it before.


----------



## Jones Bob

A link might help.


----------



## JimL11

Pawel Acoustics HP-3. Looks like they aren't making/selling them at this time, but have some kind of cross-link box, maybe similar to the old Stax ED-1 diffuse field equalizer?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pawel-Acou...713801?hash=item3b2380cbc9:g:ZtIAAOSwXi9b3xqQ


----------



## Eich1eeF

Magol79 said:


> So, I regularly trawl ebay for anything stax related. A while ago I found this item: "Pawel Acoustic hp-3 Pro Monitor Headphone processor / amplifier for Stax". Does anyone know more about it? I'm just curious because I've never heard of it before.


The related products from Pawel Acoustic have been discussed around here before, try googling for "site:https://www.head-fi.org/threads pawel hp1". Pawel still build a later model without the STAX amp: http://www.pawel-acoustics.ch/products.html They don't provide anything but a picture for the device for sale on ebay http://www.pawel-acoustics.ch/discontinued_products.html

More modern products that claim to achieve similar things would be the Smyth A8 or A16, Creative Super-XFI or OOYH. Minus the STAX amp, of course. The A8 used to be sold bundled with a STAX SRS-2170.


----------



## bmichels (Dec 1, 2018)

After 20 hours of warm-up of the EL34, the values have evolved a bit.  I will apair 1 with 3  and 2 with 4 to built the 2 pairs.






This evening I will stop the testing and insert the new tubes into the BHSE...


----------



## Hubert481

You should buy 2 additional tubes


----------



## bmichels

New PSVANE installed now.  Very first listening impressions are good: quite dynamic new life for my BHSE.


----------



## Whitigir

bmichels said:


> New PSVANE installed now.  Very first listening impressions are good: quite dynamic new life for my BHSE.


And how about XF2 Quad  ? Have you tried it yet


----------



## bmichels

Whitigir said:


> And how about XF2 Quad  ? Have you tried it yet



 No. Sorry...


----------



## phaeton70

purk said:


> The T1 & T1S and T1W are a better match to Lambdas design.  May not work as good with the SR009 though.



well, as usual YMMV and I respect your opinion, but I do find a perfectly reconditioned (all electrolytics changed by Stax Japan) T1W with Clear Top tubes to work incrediby well with my 009. if I compare to my GG (SED =C= EL34 or JJ 6CA7) the only thngs missing are a wider soundstage (much better the GG one), a bit of extension and "air" in the highs (GG is more "open" and extended), and a general less "linearity" (the T1W is more "romantic" and relaxed while GG is more "hifi" and dynamic). but I must be honest, I could have lived with full pleasure and no regrets with the T1W if I was in a budget constraint.

of course, the above depends on my taste (I do prefer a very neutral sound with just a touch of warmth, very dynamic and transparent), the music I like to listen to (mainly acoustic jazz, trip hop and some prog) and the volume I like to listen to (low to mid level, never to high volume)


----------



## martyn73

I'm at my wits end with the SR-007A; despite my ears being quite small my left ear touches the driver and the headphone are too uncomfortable for regular use. Does anyone know of a method to make the earpads deeper so that my left ear doesn't touch the inner part of the SR-007A? The replacement ear pads seem to be made for both the SR-007II and SR-007A.


----------



## Axel

I know this topic has been raised over and over again, sorry.
If I want to drive an SR-009 (not 'S') properly (moderate levels), will the SRM-007tII be adequate? If not, which (non-DIY) headamp will drive it properly for a ~$1500 budget?
Thanks!


----------



## Magol79 (Dec 5, 2018)

Axel said:


> I know this topic has been raised over and over again, sorry.
> If I want to drive an SR-009 (not 'S') properly (moderate levels), will the SRM-007tII be adequate? If not, which (non-DIY) headamp will drive it properly for a ~$1500 budget?
> Thanks!



Sure it can drive the SR-009 to moderate levels, but it will not show what the SR-009 really are capable of. I have owned both the SRM-007tII and a KGSSHV at the same time. In comparison the 007tII starts showing its weaknesses from moderate levels up to high levels. Bass is a bit wooly and mids and treble start sounding a bit sharp/edgy. I think Tyll described this very well in his review of the SRM-007tII:

"The problem with this amp is all that goodness goes out the window when turned up to stronger listening levels. The bass doesn't seem to get louder, just woollier, and the mids start to get shouty. But the worst thing is that the somewhat innocuous treble sparkle quickly grew through glare and on into what sounds like significant distortion to me."​
The KGSSHV is a much nicer amp to listen to IME. I ended up selling my SRM-007tII.


----------



## astrostar59

I would recommend you stay on DIY amps and look for a used KGSShv or KGST but not a Carbon as that IMO is too bright on the 009. 
The Stax amps to my ears do not drive the 009 to it's required level. It isn't just about power, it is about the sound quality you can expect as well. I have had various Stax amps and non of them convinced me. The new T-8000 isn't so hot either, in fact overpriced I would suggest.


----------



## Whitigir

astrostar59 said:


> I would recommend you stay on DIY amps and look for a used KGSShv or KGST but not a Carbon as that IMO is too bright on the 009.
> The Stax amps to my ears do not drive the 009 to it's required level. It isn't just about power, it is about the sound quality you can expect as well. I have had various Stax amps and non of them convinced me. The new T-8000 isn't so hot either, in fact overpriced I would suggest.



KG-T2 , the holy grail ! The end game !  The real deal, and is the only thing that stop you from looking and asking for another amp/advice, unless you desire further from your other components


----------



## JimL11

Whitigir said:


> KG-T2 , the holy grail ! The end game !  The real deal, and is the only thing that stop you from looking and asking for another amp/advice, unless you desire further from your other components



LOL! Please tell me where I can find a T2 for $1500, which was the poster's budget.


----------



## Whitigir

JimL11 said:


> LOL! Please tell me where I can find a T2 for $1500, which was the poster's budget.


Aliexpress 

Joking, my bad, but I didn’t saw his post on the pricing limit


----------



## astrostar59

Whitigir said:


> KG-T2 , the holy grail ! The end game !  The real deal, and is the only thing that stop you from looking and asking for another amp/advice, unless you desire further from your other components



Whitigir, I would pitch the Malvalve tube amp v the T2. Granted I haven't heard the T2 but I am very familiar with the BHSE and the Malvalve was street ahead of that amp. I is tubes right through, and tube regulated, so maybe the secret sauce? It has 22 tubes and gets HOT and costs 14k euros. But the sound, was marvellous, made the 009 sound so real.


----------



## Whitigir (Dec 5, 2018)

astrostar59 said:


> Whitigir, I would pitch the Malvalve tube amp v the T2. Granted I haven't heard the T2 but I am very familiar with the BHSE and the Malvalve was street ahead of that amp. I is tubes right through, and tube regulated, so maybe the secret sauce? It has 22 tubes and gets HOT and costs 14k euros. But the sound, was marvellous, made the 009 sound so real.



Nobody would believe me when I said KG-T2 is not only Streets ahead of Carbon or GG which is the equivalent of BHSE.....the KG-T2 is on another planet in level of comparison.  It is in a class of it own

It is so much better that if you can’t hear the differences within 3 seconds, a person should just quit this hobby before he sink money into it

**some people even claim that KG-T2 should only has different signature and very little differences to BHSE**.  Whenever I hear such statements, there are only 2 possibilities (a person is probably have wood for ears, or never heard/audited the KG T2)

Did I ever mentioned that KG T2 is like a combination of Carbon + GG + somemore ? It is “perfection”, if perfection was to exist in this universe, but unfortunately there is no “perfection”.  However, KG T2 would be the thing that is very very very close to “perfection” for Stax ES


----------



## Jones Bob

DIY KG T2.... meh. So common these days.....

Give me a Kevin Gilmore Circlotron. That is not just MOAR power, that is Insane Mode power for STAX earspeakers.


----------



## Axel

Magol79 said:


> Sure it can drive the SR-009 to moderate levels, but it will not show what the SR-009 really are capable of. I have owned both the SRM-007tII and a KGSSHV at the same time. In comparison the 007tII starts showing its weaknesses from moderate levels up to high levels. Bass is a bit wooly and mids and treble start sounding a bit sharp/edgy. I think Tyll described this very well in his review of the SRM-007tII:
> 
> "The problem with this amp is all that goodness goes out the window when turned up to stronger listening levels. The bass doesn't seem to get louder, just woollier, and the mids start to get shouty. But the worst thing is that the somewhat innocuous treble sparkle quickly grew through glare and on into what sounds like significant distortion to me."​
> The KGSSHV is a much nicer amp to listen to IME. I ended up selling my SRM-007tII.





astrostar59 said:


> I would recommend you stay on DIY amps and look for a used KGSShv or KGST but not a Carbon as that IMO is too bright on the 009.
> The Stax amps to my ears do not drive the 009 to it's required level. It isn't just about power, it is about the sound quality you can expect as well. I have had various Stax amps and non of them convinced me. The new T-8000 isn't so hot either, in fact overpriced I would suggest.



Thanks fellas! That’s unfortunate as I got a great price offer on a demo SRM-007tII.
I see the KGSShv and KGST are above my budget (at least those sold from Mjölnir)...
What is the consensus about the Octave 2 is it good enough? Better than the SRM-007tII?


----------



## SeaWo|f

Jones Bob said:


> DIY KG T2.... meh. So common these days.....
> 
> Give me a Kevin Gilmore Circlotron. That is not just MOAR power, that is Insane Mode power for STAX earspeakers.



There are what like 4 or 5 of those as of now and at least 2 work?!

That's far to common, need to go tube output circlotron! Plus tuby goodness never hurts! You would be the first on the block with it!


----------



## Magol79

Axel said:


> Thanks fellas! That’s unfortunate as I got a great price offer on a demo SRM-007tII.
> I see the KGSShv and KGST are above my budget (at least those sold from Mjölnir)...
> What is the consensus about the Octave 2 is it good enough? Better than the SRM-007tII?


I've been interested in the Octave 2 myself. This is what Spritzer had to say when I asked him about it:
"The Octave was designed to be along similar lines as the Stax amps in terms of performance and it will compare nicely against a stock 007t.  It has just a tad less power but it can far better utilize the power so in the end it will come out on top.  It does work really well with the Lambdas as that's the phones I was shooting for with that design."

But since I got a SR-007 MKII recently I am now looking for a used Carbon instead.


----------



## JimL11 (Dec 5, 2018)

Axel said:


> Thanks fellas! That’s unfortunate as I got a great price offer on a demo SRM-007tII.
> I see the KGSShv and KGST are above my budget (at least those sold from Mjölnir)...
> What is the consensus about the Octave 2 is it good enough? Better than the SRM-007tII?



The Octave 2 is probably as good as you can get if you are only considering new amps, but you if you are willing to consider used amps you can do better, because once the shine comes off the price goes down. After all, after you start using a new amp it becomes used, so why not save some money by starting with a used amp.  And of course, if you are willing to DIY, the price comes down even more, although your "sweat equity" makes up the difference in price.


If you're not ready to go all the way with DIY, something like a used SRM-T1 with capacitor replacement, added bias supply and output safety resistors, and constant current load mod is relatively straightforward to do and costs $100 in parts over the cost of the unmodified amp. So modified, a T1 has as much current drive (5 mA per output device) as a KGSSHV with onboard heatsinks, albeit with 2 dB lower voltage limits, and more effective power than an SRM-007 because the output tube's signal current isn't wasted as heat in output plate resistors. Further, it has some of the tube tonality that helps soften  the inherent brightness/"sharpness" that a number of people find in the SR-009. If you are not willing to DIY, any competent technician should be able to do the mod with a few hours work, which should still put you under your price limit.

Another nice thing about the T1 series is that it has built in provision to be changed to any AC voltage via internal jumpers on the circuit board.


----------



## tigon_ridge

Jim, where is your article detailing the replacement of the output plate resistors with constant current load for the SRM-t1? Can't find it.


----------



## JimL11

tigon_ridge said:


> Jim, where is your article detailing the replacement of the output plate resistors with constant current load for the SRM-t1? Can't find it.



It was published in AudioXpress July 2017. One thing that was omitted from that article was the addition of 5 megohm resistors to the bias supplies after the last capacitor. This can be done by interposing the resistor between the circuit board and the wire going to the output sockets - there are two wires coming from the center mid-rear of the board, one for normal bias and one for pro bias. Mouser sells 1.6 kV resistors of 4.7Meg and 5.1 Meg, 1/4 watt. Either one will do.


----------



## tigon_ridge

JimL11 said:


> It was published in AudioXpress July 2017. One thing that was omitted from that article was the addition of 5 megohm resistors to the bias supplies after the last capacitor. This can be done by interposing the resistor between the circuit board and the wire going to the output sockets - there are two wires coming from the center mid-rear of the board, one for normal bias and one for pro bias. Mouser sells 1.6 kV resistors of 4.7Meg and 5.1 Meg, 1/4 watt. Either one will do.



So, total _actual_ cost for the mod = $100 for parts + subscription fee.


----------



## JimL11 (Dec 5, 2018)

tigon_ridge said:


> So, total _actual_ cost for the mod = $100 for parts + subscription fee.



You should be able to get the single issue for less than $10, and the parts cost is less than $100 - I used a heatsink from China which cost about $10, something like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-Power-...832652?hash=item5d8300e5cc:g:48cAAOxyf~hRzThF

Also, Kevin Gilmore has a circuit board file which he can provide if you don't like soldering bare parts together, that you can send out to have a board made, although that would increase the cost.


----------



## tigon_ridge

JimL11 said:


> You should be able to get the single issue for less than $10, and the parts cost is less than $100 - I used a heatsink from China which cost about $10, something like this:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-Power-...832652?hash=item5d8300e5cc:g:48cAAOxyf~hRzThF
> 
> Also, Kevin Gilmore has a circuit board file which he can provide if you don't like soldering bare parts together, that you can send out to have a board made, although that would increase the cost.



Yep, $9 for the issue. Thanks, Jim. Definitely my most immediate consideration as an upgrade over the srm-252s to power my L300.


----------



## chococya96

Hey guys, if I swap out the L300's arc assembly and earpads with L700 ones, will it be same as L700? Or at best, sound close to L700? 

From what I can see, replacing the pad to L700 will make the sound "warmer" while having slightly wider soundstage which, is similar to how L700 sounds. 

This is like how HD58x jubilee sounds awfully similar to HD660s if you mod the former one a bit (i.e. by taking out the foam pad inside). 

I can see how L700 or even L500 owners disapproving this though...


----------



## Scgorg

I don't know how much you value the opinion of the stax mafia, but according to spritzer the L300L is inferior to the L700.


----------



## VRacer-111

kanade96 said:


> Hey guys, if I swap out the L300's arc assembly and earpads with L700 ones, will it be same as L700? Or at best, sound close to L700?
> 
> From what I can see, replacing the pad to L700 will make the sound "warmer" while having slightly wider soundstage which, is similar to how L700 sounds.
> 
> ...



L300 or L300 Limited? L300 Limited would be the one that could be close to an L700, not the normal L300.


----------



## chococya96

VRacer-111 said:


> L300 or L300 Limited? L300 Limited would be the one that could be close to an L700, not the normal L300.



The normal L300. Is it still worth it though? I heard that the comfort on L300 is just atrocious where, most users are using thicker pads to fix the comfort issue. Some even go as far as getting the L700 arc assembly so that the clamp force is not tight as the L300 one. 

I don't know, mate. I'm interested in buying SRS-3100 and my local audio shop is selling one at a discounted price (around $550 USD, converted from AUD) and the owner also has a spare L700 pads and arc assembly which, he's able to bundle it with the system for $650 USD total.


----------



## Scgorg

Pads and arc assembly for 100 bucks extra is an insane deal, do it. And yes, the L300 does have really bad pads and headband.


----------



## tumpux

I don't think so. It will still be an L300 driver.
Even the L300 Limited ones are not the same as L700 driver. They just share the 'same' driver tech. An often used marketing catch phrase to hype up the anniversary product.

But hey, in this hobby if we want it bad enough we can easily convince ourselves that the combo sounds as good as the 009S.
Just buy it, enjoy your music until the setup broke down while staying away from online forums..


----------



## VRacer-111

kanade96 said:


> The normal L300. Is it still worth it though? I heard that the comfort on L300 is just atrocious where, most users are using thicker pads to fix the comfort issue. Some even go as far as getting the L700 arc assembly so that the clamp force is not tight as the L300 one.
> 
> I don't know, mate. I'm interested in buying SRS-3100 and my local audio shop is selling one at a discounted price (around $550 USD, converted from AUD) and the owner also has a spare L700 pads and arc assembly which, he's able to bundle it with the system for $650 USD total.



I'd definitely go with that 3100 system and L700 parts offer... it's 1/3 of normal retail price for the L700 parts right there! I have had both the L300 and L300 Limited... L300 is downright uncomfortable stock but the sound you get almost makes that forgiveable. The stock L300 Limited is a little more comfortable in the sense that your ears aren't pressed into the screen mesh driver protectors like on the L300, but the clamp is WAY more than the L300 - it's the worst of any STAX. Just couldn't take the clamp of the stock L300 Limited... swapped to L700 arc and pads which was an absolutely massive improvement. It also helped with subbass and smoothness. Put the L300 Limited pads on the L300 and liked what they did for ear comfort and sound, but then had the Limited clamp issue to deal with. L300 with Limited/L500 pads and L700 arc would be a nice combo.


----------



## chococya96

Scgorg said:


> Pads and arc assembly for 100 bucks extra is an insane deal, do it. And yes, the L300 does have really bad pads and headband.





tumpux said:


> I don't think so. It will still be an L300 driver.
> Even the L300 Limited ones are not the same as L700 driver. They just share the 'same' driver tech. An often used marketing catch phrase to hype up the anniversary product.
> 
> But hey, in this hobby if we want it bad enough we can easily convince ourselves that the combo sounds as good as the 009S.
> Just buy it, enjoy your music until the setup broke down while staying away from online forums..





VRacer-111 said:


> I'd definitely go with that 3100 system and L700 parts offer... it's 1/3 of normal retail price for the L700 parts right there! I have had both the L300 and L300 Limited... L300 is downright uncomfortable stock but the sound you get almost makes that forgiveable. The stock L300 Limited is a little more comfortable in the sense that your ears aren't pressed into the screen mesh driver protectors like on the L300, but the clamp is WAY more than the L300 - it's the worst of any STAX. Just couldn't take the clamp of the stock L300 Limited... swapped to L700 arc and pads which was an absolutely massive improvement. It also helped with subbass and smoothness. Put the L300 Limited pads on the L300 and liked what they did for ear comfort and sound, but then had the Limited clamp issue to deal with. L300 with Limited/L500 pads and L700 arc would be a nice combo.



Alright, I've decided to take the offer. Seems like a pretty good deal considering how he was able to add new spare parts (not used) for only around $100 USD extra. 
I'm not sure if the sound will be drastically different from stock L300 to modded L300 (with L700 pads/arc) but, my number one concern was comfort so, I'm more than happy to accept a small compromise even if it result in degrading sound. 
I'll be pairing the energizer with JDS EL DAC so I'm guessing everything is good to go?


----------



## Pahani

kanade96 said:


> Alright, I've decided to take the offer. Seems like a pretty good deal considering how he was able to add new spare parts (not used) for only around $100 USD extra.
> I'm not sure if the sound will be drastically different from stock L300 to modded L300 (with L700 pads/arc) but, my number one concern was comfort so, I'm more than happy to accept a small compromise even if it result in degrading sound.
> I'll be pairing the energizer with JDS EL DAC so I'm guessing everything is good to go?



Yep, should be good to go! Stax energisers have RCA pass-throughs, so you can easily add them into your existing audio chain. Just need 1 more pair of RCAs.

example: JDS -> Stax252S -> (your current amp)


----------



## forestitalia

VRacer-111 said:


> I'd definitely go with that 3100 system and L700 parts offer... it's 1/3 of normal retail price for the L700 parts right there! I have had both the L300 and L300 Limited... L300 is downright uncomfortable stock but the sound you get almost makes that forgiveable. The stock L300 Limited is a little more comfortable in the sense that your ears aren't pressed into the screen mesh driver protectors like on the L300, but the clamp is WAY more than the L300 - it's the worst of any STAX. Just couldn't take the clamp of the stock L300 Limited... swapped to L700 arc and pads which was an absolutely massive improvement. It also helped with subbass and smoothness. Put the L300 Limited pads on the L300 and liked what they did for ear comfort and sound, but then had the Limited clamp issue to deal with. L300 with Limited/L500 pads and L700 arc would be a nice combo.



Yes L700 is more comfortable, but it also sounds noticeably different from the L300 limited, although some say they share the same drivers. L300ltd seems more natural sound and headstage to me.


----------



## VRacer-111

I've still yet to hear an L700... I will say my L300 Limited with L700 pads sounds close to an SR-007 Mk2 on my rig.Tonally they are VERY close....it's the technicalities where they differ some; just a little less bass impact and extension, detail, and smoothness in the L300 Limiteds.


----------



## forestitalia

What amplifier  using? It makes a big part in sound.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Dec 8, 2018)

forestitalia said:


> What amplifier  using? It makes a big part in sound.



Old picture, as I have everything mounted in a rack system now, but this is the DAC, amp, and transformer used for my STAX rig:

https://photos.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Audio/n-6fh3fz/i-6frZ45n/0/2f9f8652/X3/i-6frZ45n-X3.jpg

NAD C275BEE stereo amp...and wouldn't have it any other way. STAX SS driver units are anemic and thin sounding in comparison, lacking in bass impact and punch along with missing the fullness and fluidity of sound. The L300 Limiteds on the rig have more lowend impact and punch than a properly driven Argon Mk3, almost the same extension.


----------



## chococya96

Pahani said:


> Yep, should be good to go! Stax energisers have RCA pass-throughs, so you can easily add them into your existing audio chain. Just need 1 more pair of RCAs.
> 
> example: JDS -> Stax252S -> (your current amp)



Oh, this is new to me. I didn't know you could use other amp to hook up with DAC and Stax energizer. 

I thought you only need a DAC to hook up with Stax energizer which, the latter is already a dedicated amp for earspeaker.

Is there any reason to use other amp for creating 3-way audio chain?


----------



## JimL11

kanade96 said:


> Oh, this is new to me. I didn't know you could use other amp to hook up with DAC and Stax energizer.
> 
> I thought you only need a DAC to hook up with Stax energizer which, the latter is already a dedicated amp for earspeaker.
> 
> Is there any reason to use other amp for creating 3-way audio chain?



No, the idea is that if you have an amplifier - speaker system, you can insert your Stax amp into the chain to drive the headphones. So, the idea is:

source -> Stax amp (ON) -> Stax headphones
                 pass through -> speaker amp (OFF) -> speakers
or

source -> Stax amp (OFF, pass through) -> speaker amp -> speakers 

In other words, the source goes to both the Stax amp and passes through to the speaker amp, then depending on which amp is on, you either listen to the Stax or the speakers.


----------



## 336881

The Stax amp or any amp with loop outs (pass through) can be on or off for the other device to work. I think you are confusing him with the on/off thing.


----------



## JimL11

antimatter said:


> The Stax amp or any amp with loop outs (pass through) can be on or off for the other device to work. I think you are confusing him with the on/off thing.



Possibly. So to put it another way, the physical chain is:

source -> Stax amp -> speaker amp (via loop-out) -> speakers. The Stax amp is connected to the Stax headphones.

Then, to listen to the headphones, the Stax amp is on, the speaker amp is off, so the listening chain is:

source -> Stax amp -> headphones. 

You don't want the speaker amp on, otherwise you will hear the speakers through the headphones.

To listen to the speakers, the Stax amp is off, the speaker amp is on, and the chain is:

source -> Stax amp -> (think of the loop-out as another cable) -> speaker amp -> speakers.

Hope this makes it clearer.


----------



## forestitalia

Uh????

..can post a photo?


----------



## 336881

The best way I can describe is that it is like adding a extra pair of rca or xlr out to your source or preamp.


----------



## Jones Bob (Dec 8, 2018)

kanade96 said:


> Oh, this is new to me. I didn't know you could use other amp to hook up with DAC and Stax energizer.
> 
> I thought you only need a DAC to hook up with Stax energizer which, the latter is already a dedicated amp for earspeaker.
> 
> Is there any reason to use other amp for creating 3-way audio chain?



STAX energizers (as opposed to dedicated STAX amplifiers) require an existing speaker amplifier to increase both voltage and current to usable levels for the energizer to function as designed. Simply running the energizer off the DAC low line level outputs won’t work.

Here’s the wiring diagram from the Woo Wee website. As you can see the energizer works after the amp, and parallel to the speakers. Source components input into the speaker amp.


----------



## chococya96

JimL11 said:


> Hope this makes it clearer.



Thanks for the clarification. That was very easy to understand.



Jones Bob said:


> STAX energizers (as opposed to dedicated STAX amplifiers) require an existing speaker amplifier to increase both voltage and current to usable levels for the energizer to function as designed. Simply running the energizer off the DAC low line level outputs won’t work.



Just to confirm, this is for line output from energizer right? The input should have no problem pairing with a desktop DAC to listen to L300? 

If I do intend to use a speaker along with L300, than I should be getting a suitable speaker amplifier to pair with the energizer like JimL11 have explained, correct?


----------



## Jones Bob (Dec 9, 2018)

Do you have or plan to get:

#1) STAX Energizer
#2) STAX Drive Unit

#1) Is a voltage boost device to be used with a speaker amp, Takes its input from a standard speaker amp output and with a transformer passively jumps the voltage up to be able to drive electrostatic headphones.

#2) is a stand alone dedicated amp. Takes it’s input at line level (DAC, etc) and actively provides a large voltage gain to be able to drive electrostatic headphones.

Each are very different in purpose, design, execution, and connection.

Do you have model number or photo of what you intend to use?


----------



## forestitalia (Dec 9, 2018)

......

..ok I found now, never knew that the 252 has a parallel out, odd considering that I had it for 1 year


----------



## chococya96 (Dec 9, 2018)

Jones Bob said:


> Do you have or plan to get:
> 
> #1) STAX Energizer
> #2) STAX Drive Unit
> ...



Sorry i think I've confused "driver unit" with "energizer". Or vice versa.

The driver unit/energizer that I'm getting is srm-252s.
I got confused as this unit was referred as both driver unit and energizer.

I've put the orders in for srs-3100 (L300 + srm-252s) due to great deal.

The shop owner told me that the power supply for the amp (srm-252s) would be using voltage that meets our standard (Australian, 230V). So I won't be needing transformers as I can plug it directly to the wall outlet/surge protector.

I have a existing JDS EL DAC that I'll be using it for USB and optical inputs. As of right now, I don't plan to connect other amp or speaker with this setup.

Is this a wrong setup?


----------



## Jones Bob (Dec 9, 2018)

forestitalia said:


> ......
> 
> ..ok I found now, never knew that the 252 has a parallel out, odd considering that I had it for 1 year



Not an Energizer. That is a Driver Unit, says so under the model number. Different animals.



kanade96 said:


> Sorry i think I've confused "driver unit" to "energizer". Or vice versa.
> 
> I've put the orders in for srs-3100 due to great deal (see my previous post).
> 
> ...



Yes, I see now you confused terminology. You are intending to use a STAX Driver Unit, not an Energizer.

Look to others’ excellent advice on connecting above.


----------



## 336881

kanade96 said:


> Sorry i think I've confused "driver unit" with "energizer". Or vice versa.
> 
> The driver unit/energizer that I'm getting is srm-252s.
> I got confused as this unit was referred as both driver unit and energizer.
> ...



Is the el dac going to be the source? If so then there is no reason for the loop outs in the srm-252s. Personally I think you should add a little vintage japan 2 channel setup to your stax/jds setup. Or maybe a complimentary dynamic headphone setup.


----------



## chococya96

antimatter said:


> Is the el dac going to be the source? If so then there is no reason for the loop outs in the srm-252s. Personally I think you should add a little vintage japan 2 channel setup to your stax/jds setup. Or maybe a complimentary dynamic headphone setup.



Yes, EL DAC is going to be the source. 
Could you explain what "liltte vintage Japan 2 channel" is?


----------



## 336881

kanade96 said:


> Yes, EL DAC is going to be the source.
> Could you explain what "liltte vintage Japan 2 channel" is?



A 2 channel speaker setup. Stax is from Japan so it would tie in with the rest of your setup. The stuff from Japan used to be hard to get but thanks to yahoo.jp and acupwr it is quite easy and affordable nowadays. Russia and where you are from are the only 2 countries that were able to get their hands on a decent amount of it so you might get lucky and find a domestic deal.


----------



## chococya96

antimatter said:


> A 2 channel speaker setup. Stax is from Japan so it would tie in with the rest of your setup. The stuff from Japan used to be hard to get but thanks to yahoo.jp and acupwr it is quite easy and affordable nowadays. Russia and where you are from are the only 2 countries that were able to get their hands on a decent amount of it so you might get lucky and find a domestic deal.



Ah, I see. I might consider getting a complimentary speaker to set up along with STAX though even before that, I might consider upgrading to L700 first before thinking about speakers and other headphones. 

Also, I heard that the driver unit (srm-252s) needs to be warmed up a bit before listening to the earspeaker. Does the manual state how long I'd have to wait before using it? 
Better yet, do I need to turn off the driver unit when not in use? I'm so used to having my JDS EL stack on 24/7 with occasional power cycling for longevity.


----------



## Whitigir (Dec 11, 2018)

So...curiously....one day 009S sound better and another day 009 is taking over.....

Beside the signatures . It is all that stiff and hard 009s pads.....Crazy Stax


----------



## joseph69

Whitigir said:


> So...curiously....one day 009S sound better and another day 009 is taking over.....


I find the mindset/mood you're in plays a big role in how much you're enjoyment at that time can vary a good degree positively or negatively from session to session.


----------



## Zoide

joseph69 said:


> I find the mindset/mood you're in plays a big role in how much you're enjoyment at that time can vary a good degree positively or negatively from session to session.



Not reading too much Head-Fi and not obsessing about the sound over the music is an important part of that


----------



## szymonsays

I finally understand why electrostats have an addicting sound signature, they sound unlike anything i've heard in a dynamic and planar


----------



## 336881 (Dec 11, 2018)

kanade96 said:


> Ah, I see. I might consider getting a complimentary speaker to set up along with STAX though even before that, I might consider upgrading to L700 first before thinking about speakers and other headphones.
> 
> Also, I heard that the driver unit (srm-252s) needs to be warmed up a bit before listening to the earspeaker. Does the manual state how long I'd have to wait before using it?
> Better yet, do I need to turn off the driver unit when not in use? I'm so used to having my JDS EL stack on 24/7 with occasional power cycling for longevity.



You can do what ever you want to as far as off and on are concerned. Like I said before it is like your el dac has another pair of rca outs. You just have to buy another set of rca cables.

The only time you have to worry about off and on is switched and un switched outlets on the back of preamps usually. It allows you to daisy chain 100/120/240v products which is really helpful but if the outlet is switched that device, usually preamp, will have to be powered on for whatever is plugged into the switched outlet. If the outlet is un switched then you do not have to worry about on/off.

Some photo's


----------



## staticdynamo

I got STAX CES-A1. Sound isolation is good. Bass sound and soundstage is very interesting.
Good pair with SR-003Mk2, and SRM-D10.


----------



## Jones Bob

How is the comfort?


----------



## staticdynamo

New eartip is very comfortable. Very easy to set. And stable.
Also cover is very easy to set.


----------



## Jones Bob (Dec 12, 2018)

Cool. Waiting now for an email from Woo Audio when they arrive in the US for sale.

Always liked using my SR-003mk2, but could only stand to have them on my ears for around a half hour before they got too uncomfortable.


----------



## staticdynamo

Today,I used SR-003Mk2 with CES-A1 and SRM-D10 for about four hours,
and still have no problem. Very comfortable. I think this eartip will be good
for you,too.


----------



## Rayzilla

nazrin313 said:


> Damn son, when Im travelling it will only be the SXC550 and the DX200 with whatever iem I feel like bringing. This is on another level lol.


Have you ever paired the DX200 with the D10 and if so, how did you connect them?


----------



## nazrin313

Rayzilla said:


> Have you ever paired the DX200 with the D10 and if so, how did you connect them?



D10? Dont have it buddy


----------



## Whitigir

Rayzilla said:


> Have you ever paired the DX200 with the D10 and if so, how did you connect them?


Assuming you are asking about SRM-D10 from Stax ?

According to the picture below, there is a line in 3.5mm.  If som you will need Amp1 for SE line-out, but as I know it...regular Amp1 ...suck, period.  May want to buy an upgraded Amp1 like Amp1Titanium mimic ?


----------



## Rayzilla

Zoide said:


> That's good to know, thanks!
> 
> How would the SRM-D10 compare to the SRM-323S? I have the latter and listen at what apparently are low volumes (only 2-3 out of 10 on the volume dial when listening to Google Play Music via an ODAC).


I am interested in hearing about the answer to this question and also a comparison of the 353X to the 323S. Thanks.


----------



## Rayzilla

Whitigir said:


> Assuming you are asking about SRM-D10 from Stax ?
> 
> According to the picture below, there is a line in 3.5mm.  If som you will need Amp1 for SE line-out, but as I know it...regular Amp1 ...suck, period.  May want to buy an upgraded Amp1 like Amp1Titanium mimic ?


Yes, the SRM-D10  

How about with the Line Out on AMP7 to the D10?

Or would it be possible to connect from the USB C-Type on the top of the DX200 to the Micro USB on the SRM-D10. Is this possible?


----------



## Whitigir

Rayzilla said:


> Yes, the SRM-D10
> 
> How about with the Line Out on AMP7 to the D10?
> 
> Or would it be possible to connect from the USB C-Type on the top of the DX200 to the Micro USB on the SRM-D10. Is this possible?



I am afraid USB-C on the DX200 does not have that connection to do Analog out.  The Amp7 is something I don’t have, so I can’t confirm for you.  But I see no problem of using it as a line out


----------



## Rayzilla

miko64 said:


> Travel gear
> 
> I had to travel from London to HK today and wanted to convince you that SR007 together with d10 is ideal for travellers. Could not sleep hence this teaser.
> In the past I used to travel w LCD-X or 4 together with Hugo 2. This was good but too heavy. SR007 is at least as musical with D10 as the above combo and (interestingly) more stable.
> ...


Quoted the wrong person. I should have asked you the question regarding your DX200 and your SRM-D10. Did you use the 3.5 Line Out of AMP1 to the 3.5 Line In on the D10?


----------



## thinker

The Lambda signature with oval pads i consider as the best Stax phone ever made.Soundstage not far behind HD-800,midrange cleaner than Stax Omega,more open than 007,more musical than 009,it has quite tight deep bass.Transparency best of all Staxes,easy to drive,stunning results even with 252s.).But all this only with right pads wich you see from the picture


----------



## wink

.... and, the pads are made out of unobtainium, right....?.....


----------



## aaronlam123

kanade96 said:


> Sorry i think I've confused "driver unit" with "energizer". Or vice versa.
> 
> The driver unit/energizer that I'm getting is srm-252s.
> I got confused as this unit was referred as both driver unit and energizer.
> ...



From what I've seen, the UK retailers seem to call them energizers. But if you look on Stax's official site (in Japanese), they never call them energizers at all, but instead are referred to as "driver units."


----------



## Whitigir

It should be called “drivers units” because it is really what driving the headphones itself.  This is what I have always said, Stax headphones is more amp dependent due to how the amp is doing everything where as dynamic headphones such as HD800s already have a huge magnet in itself


----------



## Failed Engineer (Dec 16, 2018)

Latest toy.  One of these components will never leave my possession...

The BHSE sounds so different than the Carbon.  It's such a difference that I'll need to listen to the BHSE for several weeks to form an opinion/preference.  Neither is clearly better than the other.  This with the 009.  Will listen to the 007 only after I have a good handle on my preferences with the 009.

The Carbon's strengths bludgeon you with a sledgehammer.  The soundstage is majestic.  I think the BHSE is a slower love affair.  But no less worth the wait.

The early takeaway is that Doug is a magician.  Whatever you put after the Walnut V, you can be assured it will never be the bottleneck.  I'm not sure how many are out in the wild, but it's not enough.


----------



## iceanddice

When the DHL man feels like Santa on Christmas morning!


----------



## Lord Rexter

Let us all know how if compares to SR-009 and SR-009S.


----------



## cucera

Lord Rexter said:


> Let us all know how if compares to SR-009 and SR-009S.



well sounds like a SR-009 just with a marvelous black background


----------



## Rossliew

Failed Engineer said:


> Latest toy.  One of these components will never leave my possession...
> 
> The BHSE sounds so different than the Carbon.  It's such a difference that I'll need to listen to the BHSE for several weeks to form an opinion/preference.  Neither is clearly better than the other.  This with the 009.  Will listen to the 007 only after I have a good handle on my preferences with the 009.
> 
> ...




Curious about the Walnut. How does it sound/not sound?


----------



## 336881 (Dec 17, 2018)

Rossliew said:


> Curious about the Walnut. How does it sound/not sound?



That was my walnut before it was his. I thought it was a really nice in between the bright Yggy and warm Pavane. I actually preferred it to those 2 dac's. It served me well for over a year before I sold it. Had it not been for the game changing Eitr I would still own it. The Eitr makes the Sony das-R1 and R1a cheap and easy to run and the prices on the R1 and R1a are scary cheap if you know where to shop.

I preferred the R1 to the R1a using Eitr. The Phillips chip (R1) was a little cleaner and crisper to my ears. The Sony chip (R1a) was a bit more musical but a bit too warm for my set up.

Doug was actually going to build me a higher end dac using the famed Phillips tda 1541. It was going to be  just north of $3k. I got both Sony dac's lovingly packaged and shipped from Japan for under $2k.


----------



## Mach3 (Dec 18, 2018)

iceanddice said:


> When the DHL man feels like Santa on Christmas morning!



Where did you buy it from. So quickly, it was only released on the 13th which is like 14th over in the US.

Anyway mine came in today. Was shipped from Japan Ikebe Music on the 14th Friday. Arrived today 18th.


----------



## chococya96 (Dec 18, 2018)

Hey guys, I've just received my srs-3100 set with L700 pads/arc assembly though, I was wondering if the L700 pads are really compatible with L300?

I've tried snapping the L700 pads onto the L300 (just like stock L300 pads) however, it wouldn't "snap on" like the L300 pads. Instead, I had to apply massive force to make it "stick" to the earspeakers.
I mean, I literally had to push the earspeaker against the table to apply adequate force. I did what the instructions said (i.e. lining yellow seal with the triangle engraving on the earspeaker) and yet, I feel like the L700 pads didn't snap on easily like L300 pads did.
Thank God that the plastic housings (?) of the earspeakers are durable enough that it didn't bend or snap in any way but still, I was very scared during the process.

Overall, I'm very happy with the purchases. Although I've demoed L300 at my local audio shop and knew how they sounded, it was completely a difference experience. There's so much detail, clarity, excellent imaging and very fast. I've never listened to such headphone/earspeaker in my life!
Now I don't think I can go back to dynamic headphones. Maybe I'll try planar magnetic headphones in the future. but for now, I'm extremely satisfied with my srs-3100 set with L700 pads.

Thank you very much for the help guys. I really appreciate it.


----------



## Lord Rexter

Glad that you are liking them. I had the similar experience when I got the L300 Limited Edition earpads replaced with L700 earpads, they sound closer to the L700 now (having said that I still prefer L700 over L300 LE).


----------



## VRacer-111

The L700 pad assembly was the same loose fitment on my L300 Limited as well. I actually just swapped the L700 leather pad over to the L300 plastic base to fix it... An l300 pad from an L300 I also had at the time was swapped to the L700 plastic base.


----------



## Mach3

kanade96 said:


> Hey guys, I've just received my srs-3100 set with L700 pads/arc assembly though, I was wondering if the L700 pads are really compatible with L300?
> 
> I've tried snapping the L700 pads onto the L300 (just like stock L300 pads) however, it wouldn't "snap on" like the L300 pads. Instead, I had to apply massive force to make it "stick" to the earspeakers.
> I mean, I literally had to push the earspeaker against the table to apply adequate force. I did what the instructions said (i.e. lining yellow seal with the triangle engraving on the earspeaker) and yet, I feel like the L700 pads didn't snap on easily like L300 pads did.
> ...



Seriously doubt you'll find a planar that offer the same speed and clarity, not to mention price point also. They're more of a side grade for bass slam. I havent touched or bother with anything else besides electrostatic since trying them out 3 years ago. I think I've reached my summit with my Stax collection. Hell even the KSE1500 I would call an endgame IEM that beats most dynamic and planar I've experienced. I think companies shouldn't waste r&d on anything but electrostatic.


----------



## iceanddice

Mach3 said:


> Where did you buy it from. So quickly, it was only released on the 13th which is like 14th over in the US.
> 
> Anyway mine came in today. Was shipped from Japan Ikebe Music on the 14th Friday. Arrived today 18th.



Preordered in Rakuten through FromJapan...


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

I am concerned about something. My STAX 353X makes a loud 'thud' or 'pop' sound in the my L700 when I turn it off. Is this normal behavior or is something not right?


----------



## Pahani

Hi-Fi-Apricity said:


> I am concerned about something. My STAX 353X makes a loud 'thud' or 'pop' sound in the my L700 when I turn it off. Is this normal behavior or is something not right?



I also have 353X and L700. Um, no Sir, that is not normal. A slight bit of thump, yes. I would not consider it "loud" at all.

I only listen at a volume of 3/10 though, perhaps you're having it cranked much louder when powering it up/down?


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

Pahani said:


> I also have 353X and L700. Um, no Sir, that is not normal. A slight bit of thump, yes. I would not consider it "loud" at all.
> 
> I only listen at a volume of 3/10 though, perhaps you're having it cranked much louder when powering it up/down?


I don't listen very loud at all. About 2 - 3 with my DAC (RME ADI-2 DAC) At -30dbr. So pretty quiet. Its loud compared to that but I would not call it very loud but its loud compared to the volume I listen. I think its the thump you describe but honestly I cant be for certain. Ill record a video or something


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity (Dec 19, 2018)

Pahani said:


> I also have 353X and L700. Um, no Sir, that is not normal. A slight bit of thump, yes. I would not consider it "loud" at all.
> 
> I only listen at a volume of 3/10 though, perhaps you're having it cranked much louder when powering it up/down?





Alright here it is. I'm not sure what to think. Ive owned my L700 and 353X for a long time and its always done this but I never really questioned it. Decided its probably wise to ask though


----------



## mulveling (Dec 19, 2018)

I always plug-in my Stax headphones after amp warm-up, unplug them before power-down, and ground the plug pins on my hand after unplugging. Just one of the many Stax rituals/superstitions I have that keeps the Stax Gods smiling upon me (probably). Some of these KG/DIY amps use teflon jacks that have a death grip on the plug pins, though.


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

mulveling said:


> I always plug-in my Stax headphones after amp warm-up, unplug them before power-down, and ground the plug pins on my hand after unplugging. Just one of the many Stax rituals/superstitions I have that keeps the Stax Gods smiling upon me (probably). Some of these KG/DIY amps use teflon jacks that have a death grip on the plug pins, though.


Oof I just tried that and when I touch the pins it made a similar thumping sound but even louder


----------



## Scgorg

I believe the thump you hear is just a capacitors discharging as the amplifier powers down, this is why there is used 5MOhm ballast resistors before the output to the phones in all stax amps and KG amps. Anyone more experienced than me can chime in but I am pretty sure it's not hurting the phones.


----------



## protoss

Hi-Fi-Apricity said:


> Oof I just tried that and when I touch the pins it made a similar thumping sound but even louder



Maybe you need to lower the volume to zero and wait for a few sec and than press power off? Btw thats how you suppose to power it off anyway. Never power off with music playing. 

And 2nd thing is. My 353X also makes the thump/pop noise. And my other amps dose similar ? But to me its more like a power down thump/pop noise. Im not bother to much with this thou. 

I never unplug the headphones. Always leave them attach to the amp while its on or off. I rarely remove them from the amps.


----------



## Mach3

Scgorg said:


> I believe the thump you hear is just a capacitors discharging as the amplifier powers down, this is why there is used 5MOhm ballast resistors before the output to the phones in all stax amps and KG amps. Anyone more experienced than me can chime in but I am pretty sure it's not hurting the phones.



That's is absolutely correct. Wouldn't plug any of my Stax in to anything but Stax or KG drivers. I have witness non Stax & KG without these protective resistors.


----------



## Mach3

iceanddice said:


> Preordered in Rakuten through FromJapan...



What number is your SR-009BK? Mine is 103/180


----------



## tumble

If anyone's interested in a Stax Sigma (normal bias), there's one on eBay.  It's mislabelled as something else.  It's not labelled correctly - it's called "cuffia elettrostatica stax anni 90".

Bidding starts at 300 Euros.

It's not mine, so questions to the seller, please, not to me.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/173699203847


----------



## Rayzilla

Those of you that have tried the SRM-323S and the SRM-353X, what similarities and differences do you notice between them.

And if you've tried either of the above and the SRM-D10, what similarities and differences do you hear.

Thanks.


----------



## afgmjkl

I did CCS mod today, and it sounds great with 007.
I prefer it to 727A (global feedback mod).

Thank you very much for your help, JimL11.


----------



## AnakChan

At the e-earphone PortaFest in Akihabara this past weekend, I had a chance to listen to the CES-A1 kit for the SR-003MK2 & SRS-002. The tips used to be all soft but now it's mixed with some portion stiffer and other portions more flexible. It's quite a bulky structure as you can see from the pix and it sticks out quite a bit from the ear. Naturally as one would guess, it's not fully isolating despite not having any ported vents - it just clips on to the earspeaker :-
        :-


----------



## biscottino

AnakChan said:


> At the e-earphone PortaFest in Akihabara this past weekend, I had a chance to listen to the CES-A1 kit for the SR-003MK2 & SRS-002. The tips used to be all soft but now it's mixed with some portion stiffer and other portions more flexible. It's quite a bulky structure as you can see from the pix and it sticks out quite a bit from the ear. Naturally as one would guess, it's not fully isolating despite not having any ported vents - it just clips on to the earspeaker



they can certainly be cumbersome, but even the Audeze Isine do not go unnoticed.


----------



## ctemkin

"At the e-earphone PortaFest in Akihabara this past weekend, I had a chance to listen to the CES-A1 kit for the SR-003MK2 & SRS-002. The tips used to be all soft but now it's mixed with some portion stiffer and other portions more flexible. It's quite a bulky structure as you can see from the pix and it sticks out quite a bit from the ear. Naturally as one would guess, it's not fully isolating despite not having any ported vents - it just clips on to the earspeaker."

AnakChan,

Was the CES-A1 more comfortable?


----------



## Jones Bob

How did they sound?


----------



## protoss

tumble said:


> If anyone's interested in a Stax Sigma (normal bias), there's one on eBay.  It's mislabelled as something else.  It's not labelled correctly - it's called "cuffia elettrostatica stax anni 90".
> 
> Bidding starts at 300 Euros.
> 
> ...



If its not yours than why even bring it up? 

The Sigma Normal sucks. Not even worth it. Only as a collection

The Sigma Pro is one of the greatest ear-speaker ever. Clearly one of the best sound to date.

Now STAXs needs a revision! 

_*Hello Stax,

Please release a Sigma X . A modern version of the Sigma series is needed. 

Thanks'
Pro*_


----------



## JimL11

afgmjkl said:


> I did CCS mod today, and it sounds great with 007.
> I prefer it to 727A (global feedback mod).
> 
> Thank you very much for your help, JimL11.



Glad you like it. I share your feelings vis-a-vis the feedback modded 727.


----------



## Pahani

protoss said:


> If its not yours than why even bring it up?
> 
> The Sigma Normal sucks. Not even worth it. Only as a collection
> 
> ...


Sigma X? Sounds like a Stax/Massdrop collaborative effort!

Err.....I'd buy that, actually........


----------



## AnakChan

Jones Bob said:


> How did they sound?


Personally I didn’t really get into the SR-003 or SRS-002 sonically anyway, so to me it didn’t make much of an impact to me. It was just an enclosure that snapped on...thre was no dampening, etc. The tips OTOH to me were more comfortable whereas the before it would just “hang off” the ears.


----------



## bmichels (Dec 21, 2018)

Guess what is behind this little Blue Led that I have installed under my BHSE ?





Who heard about* "Schumann Wave" generators *?  

"_Schuman Wave (7.83 Hz) can reduce the interference of radio and electromagnetic waves, which can reduce music details, improve sound field width, and reduce standing wave impact. Additionally, Schumann wave can make people relaxed and listen more sound details. It will have effective positive impact on sleep quality, thinking and creation after long-time using_"

Very promising.... while I agree it may seems strange. Anyway, at 20$ from China, I decided to give it a try.... we will see...

And if I am not convinced I can still offer it as a fun-gift to an audiophile friend


----------



## JimL11 (Dec 21, 2018)

bmichels said:


> Guess what is behind this little Blue Led that I have installed under my BHSE ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Skeptoid website comment on Schumann waves here:

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4352

In brief, B.S.

And incidentally, an electromagnetic wave of 7.83 Hz has a wavelength of 38,000 km. Even if that gadget actually generates an electrical signal of that frequency, the transmitting efficiency of an antenna that you can squeeze under a BHSE is minuscule. You can probably generate a stronger signal by sitting and raising your heel off the ground on your toes until your leg starts to shake.


----------



## VandyMan

bmichels said:


> Guess what is behind this little Blue Led that I have installed under my BHSE?



I can since I've already read this post in two other topics. Always interested to see what is new in your system, but please stop cross-posting.


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

I have to ask how much hotter does a KGSShv / Carbon make your room compared to a Staxen amplifier? I have issues with my space running hot with all the electronics (Computer, monitors, audio interface, 353X, RME, etc....)


----------



## iceanddice

Mach3 said:


> What number is your SR-009BK? Mine is 103/180


 72/180 

I Am Number 72. lol


----------



## jude

NOTE: If you can't see the embedded video above, please *CLICK HERE* to see the video.​

In terms of the best of the best headphones, you have to look at electrostatics. And one of the finest electrostatic headphones (the STAX SR-009) has been improved, evolved. We take a look at the new STAX SR-009S, including comparisons to its predecessor and measurements.

The measurements in this video were made using:

*GRAS 45CA* Headphone Test Fixture, with:
*GRAS RA0401* High Resolution Ear Simulators
*GRAS KB5010/KB5011* Anthropometric Pinnae for 45CA (*video*)

*Audio Precision APx555 *Audio Analyzer
*STAX SRM-D10* electrostatic headphone amplifier
*Herzan* Acoustic & Vibration Isolation Enclosure

_STAX SR-009S Review: An Electrostatic Headphone Legend Evolved - Head-Fi TV,_ produced by Brian Murphy, Joe Cwik, and Jude Mansilla


----------



## protoss

Great video.

SR-007 FTW!

Its just way better.


----------



## Mach3

I wouldn't say it way better. Different and better value 110%


----------



## protoss

Mach3 said:


> I wouldn't say it way better. Different and better value 110%



To me its one of the greatest electrostatic ear-speaker I heard! 

HE90 vs Omega 1993 vs 007 vs 009 vs Jade vs Jr. vs Sigma vs Diy stat , etch...

007 is waaaaay better than the 009. 

Maybe you heard more Electrostatic ear-speakers than me? 

My ranking:

1. HE90
2. 007MK1
3. JADE
4. OMEGA (tied with 3rd)
5. 009
6. JR (Tied w/ 009) maybe better ? A little bias for thr Jr.
7. Sigma 
......Etch...


----------



## Rayzilla

Anyone here try the Mr. Speakers Voce?


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

Rayzilla said:


> Anyone here try the Mr. Speakers Voce?


I've heard the VOCE next to the 009S at RMAF2018. They were both powered by the BHSE and its good to note that the VOCE is considerably less sensitive. Anywho I tried my best to volume match between VOCE and 009S switching between the 2 playing Pink Floyd's - Wish You Were Here. VOCE sounded pretty muddled in the low end and lacking impact. The mid-range was pretty alight though but I still think Staxen have it handily beat in this regard as well as treble. It sounded a bit hazy up top and lacking sparkle. I think the low treble or something may have been recessed? Can't tell you. For an electrostatic it was woefully slow. I think any of the Omega Staxen have it beat but was a good first effort by Mrspeakers. I will also note that it is wonderfully comfortable


----------



## Trance_Gott

Voce is easily beaten by 009, 007 an even L700 is better! Soundstage like a tunnel very unrealistic and lacks impact.


----------



## Mach3

protoss said:


> To me its one of the greatest electrostatic ear-speaker I heard!
> 
> HE90 vs Omega 1993 vs 007 vs 009 vs Jade vs Jr. vs Sigma vs Diy stat , etch...
> 
> ...


What's you're thought on the SR-007 Mk1 early 70XXX compared to the later model SR-007 MK1 and port modded SR-007 MK2.5


----------



## Mheat122134

What kind of power cable would I need for older Stax Pro Bias amps?


----------



## 336881

protoss said:


> To me its one of the greatest electrostatic ear-speaker I heard!
> 
> HE90 vs Omega 1993 vs 007 vs 009 vs Jade vs Jr. vs Sigma vs Diy stat , etch...
> 
> ...



Have you tried the 404LE or ESP950?


----------



## Zoide

protoss said:


> To me its one of the greatest electrostatic ear-speaker I heard!
> 
> HE90 vs Omega 1993 vs 007 vs 009 vs Jade vs Jr. vs Sigma vs Diy stat , etch...
> 
> ...



How about the L700?


----------



## protoss (Dec 24, 2018)

Mach3 said:


> What's you're thought on the SR-007 Mk1 early 70XXX compared to the later model SR-007 MK1 and port modded SR-007 MK2.5



One of my favorite headphones is the 007mk1 (70xxx series) never try properly the Mk2 but with all the mods trying to be a Mk1, i am assuming it should be superior.

As for others; @Zoide @antimatter

The ESP-950 with stax adapter is amazing. Great cans.

The L700 is baby 009. Btw, the 009 is one of the greatest electrostatic to buy today. Its just that its not #1 . How can it be? No way it beats the HE90 or the more aggessive Omega or the arthritis demon JADE.

The rest of the lambdas are greats. The lambdas pro from the 90s is great, any limited edition series is superior to the average lambdas. Example, L300ltd , 404ltd , etch...

I also forgot the legendary HE60 with stax adapter. This can easily outclass anyone or everyone

Revision list:

1. HE90
2. 007MK1
3. JADE
4. OMEGA (up or down)
5. 009
6. HE60 ( 1st or 2nd place or anywhere for this beast)
7. Shangri-la JR.
8. ESP-950
9. Any lambdas ltd series or put L700 here
10. ......

One of my favorite photography headphone shots I ever took!!


----------



## Whitigir

It isn’t fair to rank these ES the way dynamic headphones would be...ES are more amplifier depending than anything out there....just my 2 cents.

The way I see it ? If you can’t enjoy Stax flagship, it is your problem and not Stax problem, period.

I love both 009 and 009S, both has different signature and are equally the same high-end level of soundstage, details and musicality


----------



## protoss

Whitigir said:


> It isn’t fair to rank these ES the way dynamic headphones would be...ES are more amplifier depending than anything out there....just my 2 cents.
> 
> The way I see it ? If you can’t enjoy Stax flagship, it is your problem and not Stax problem, period.
> 
> I love both 009 and 009S, both has different signature and are equally the same high-end level of soundstage, details and musicality



People never rank Electrostatic! Everyone is afraid of Stax-Mafia to rank them. 

I'm breaking that curse ! 

It's not about enjoying them. My top 10 ranking has 4 to 5 Stax brand on a top 10. It clearly shows that Stax is superior in electrostatic technology!


----------



## Whitigir

protoss said:


> People never rank Electrostatic! Everyone is afraid of Stax-Mafia to rank them.
> 
> I'm breaking that curse !
> 
> It's not about enjoying them. My top 10 ranking has 4 to 5 Stax brand on a top 10. It clearly shows that Stax is superior in electrostatic technology!


Nah, to me Stax Mafia is the best and top ranking


----------



## wink (Dec 24, 2018)

Even though I have the SR-007, SR-009, ESP950, and sundry Lambdas, the HE60 is the most addictive.

Not having heard the Orpheus side by side with my gear, The three times I have heard them, the Orpheus are still my most memorable headphone experiences.
I have heard the HE-1 and don't think it matches my topline electrostatics on either the KGSSHV or KGSSHV Carbon.
As usual, *YMMV*.......


----------



## Mheat122134

Mheat122134 said:


> What kind of power cable would I need for older Stax Pro Bias amps?



Sorry for asking again but I’d like to know soon. Looking to get an older amp (pre 2000) from Japan but many sellers do not include the power cable, would any home appliance cable be fine?


----------



## walakalulu

I think you can only rank headphones when using the same dac, amp and cables. I recently changed energiser from KGST to GKGG and found that I needed to change the mains cable to extract the best from it.


----------



## phaeton70 (Dec 25, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> It isn’t fair to rank these ES the way dynamic headphones would be...ES are more amplifier depending than anything out there
> ..........



agree, even if I must say that also some dynamic/ortho totl hps are really very sensitive to the dac/amplifier gears you put in front of them... Utopia can sound lifelessly with the wrong gears or magically with the right ones for example....
back to ES, agree they are much more sensitive to the setup, I had a BHSE driving a 009 for a period, and IMHO it was on par with the Utopia driven by a totl 300B ampli (apart the soundstage, Utopia is IMHO genetically unable to reproduce a big soundstage), actually Utopia was slightly better in some parameters.
going from the BHSE to the GG situation has changed, and now 009 is back to her throne, the undisputed queen of hps 

of course the above is only IMVHO


----------



## nemomec (Dec 25, 2018)

protoss said:


> To me its one of the greatest electrostatic ear-speaker I heard!
> 
> HE90 vs Omega 1993 vs 007 vs 009 vs Jade vs Jr. vs Sigma vs Diy stat , etch...
> 
> ...




I see the ranking a little bit different after owning most of the above models:

1. Stax SR-009/BK (ultraprecise, scales extrem with better gear)
2. Sennheiser HE-90 (for classic music very good for other music sometimes less precise/controlled)
3. Stax SR Omega (same like SR-009 with less precision but more romantic tone)
4. Stax SR-009S (for electronic music very good but not as transparent like SR-009)
5. Stax SR-007 MK1 SN 70xxx (best 007 clearer than later models and with a natural timbre)
6. Sennheiser HE-60 (for classic music and Singer/Songwriter very good for other music sometimes to lean)
7. Stax SR-L700 (allrounder)
8. Stax Sigma Pro/404 (special with huge soundstage)
...


----------



## statfi

nemomec said:


> 4. Stax SR-009S (for electronic music very good but not as transparent like SR-009)


I have SR-009, and I have not heard the SR-009S yet, but hope to.  I was surprised (but, secretly, pleased) to see your ranking of them.  Could you give a couple of musical examples and say more specifically how the two cans are different?


----------



## statfi

Mheat122134 said:


> Sorry for asking again but I’d like to know soon. Looking to get an older amp (pre 2000) from Japan but many sellers do not include the power cable, would any home appliance cable be fine?


I have an older SRM-T1 (in addition to my BHSE), bought and used in the USA.  It takes a standard IEC 3-conductor power cord.  As I have written elsewhere, I have found http://anticables.com/power-cords#!/Level-3-Reference-Series-Power-Cords/p/14644872/category=3461168 to sound better than several substantially more expensive cables, and, in my home, with its wiring and utility service, I find that putting multiple ferrite cores on the power cable improves the sound from the BHSE.  (I have not checked that this is true for the SRM-T1, but expect it to be.)  The SRM-T1 supports has Pro and Normal Bias.  A standard 3-conductor IEC power cable should work just fine.


----------



## FLguy

nemomec said:


> I see the ranking a little bit different after owning most of the above....
> ...


Thank you to those with experience with many models for posting your impressions and rankings - it is very valuable to those who haven't had the chance to hear as many different models (yet).

I also would like to know where the 007 MkII falls in these rankings. (That model is much easier to find currently of course ). TIA for any comparisons/rankings which include that version.


----------



## Eich1eeF

Mheat122134 said:


> Sorry for asking again but I’d like to know soon. Looking to get an older amp (pre 2000) from Japan but many sellers do not include the power cable, would any home appliance cable be fine?


While practically any IEC cable will do, you'll still have to change some internals to adjust a Japanese device to your local mains voltage, or use an external transformer that provides the correct 100V.


----------



## Pahani

Eich1eeF said:


> While practically any IEC cable will do, you'll still have to change some internals to adjust a Japanese device to your local mains voltage, or use an external transformer that provides the correct 100V.



He is very correct and I had overlooked that detail. My 252S is a Japan model and I purchased a Jameco wall-wart to make it U.S. compatible.

Both my SRM-1 Mk2 and my 353X are U.S. models though, no power converter needed. I do have a rather beefy converter laying around though, just in case I need one in the future.


----------



## DrWhite (Dec 25, 2018)

Hi,

İ am reading lots of positive things about L700+srm353x combo. İ'm planning to buy this setup. any suggestions other than this combo for a starter? Changing amp or headphone?

Mjolnir octave2/3+L700

Or

Srm353x + L700

Srm353xbk is it worth the extra?

Octave2 vs 353xbk is similar?

Or

L700+ srm006ts kimik2

Or

Anything better for me under 2500 usd?

Too many choises, too many questions...


By the way i am a hd650 guy.


----------



## Pahani

DrWhite said:


> Hi,
> 
> İ am reading lots of positive things about L700+srm353x combo. İ'm planning to buy this setup. any suggestions other than this combo for a starter? Changing amp or headphone?
> 
> ...



I haven't answered earlier because of the amps you're considering, I've only had experience with 353X. I can't compare it to anything else.

353X vs 353X BK though, is an easy one. The amps are absolutely identical, except the BK model is in black and is a Limited Edition.

I haven't looked, so I'm not aware of a price difference....but I will say I was a bit miffed that the BK model came out a few short months after I bought my 353X :/ I would have purchased the BK model personally, had it been available at that time.

Most things Stax that are Limited will hold value better over time, I believe.


----------



## DrWhite (Dec 25, 2018)

Pahani said:


> I haven't answered earlier because of the amps you're considering, I've only had experience with 353X. I can't compare it to anything else.
> 
> 353X vs 353X BK though, is an easy one. The amps are absolutely identical, except the BK model is in black and is a Limited Edition.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the answer, 

Are u happy with your l700-353x combo?

Any need for tube warmness for vocals?


----------



## rennwerkes

Pahani said:


> He is very correct and I had overlooked that detail. My 252S is a Japan model and I purchased a Jameco wall-wart to make it U.S. compatible.
> 
> Both my SRM-1 Mk2 and my 353X are U.S. models though, no power converter needed. I do have a rather beefy converter laying around though, just in case I need one in the future.



I think the original poster's question was about the power cable.  If you're in the US this is the cable I bought.  You probably could get away with a three prong to two prong adapter with the "regular" US cable (to use into the voltage converter) but I just went for authenticity and ordered this off Ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/JAPAN-6FT-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## rennwerkes

Folks, super stupid question and I suspect it's a moot issue but are headphones that come as a kit with a Japanese voltage driver unit specific to 100V?  I just ask because I saw someone selling "120V" Stax headphones.  Just wanted to double check.


----------



## JimL11

No, there is no such thing as a 120V headphone.


----------



## rennwerkes

Thanks, I didn't think so but just wanted to verify.
Just bought a Japanese kit and kinda worried me. LOL!


----------



## Jodet

I've had my 353X / L700 combo for a year and am very happy with it.    I'm wondering if my amp is limiting the L700's. 

Would a Woo GES be an upgrade or a sidegrade?   

Any other suggestions for an amp in the 2 to 2.5K or so range?


----------



## Eich1eeF

rennwerkes said:


> I think the original poster's question was about the power cable.  If you're in the US this is the cable I bought.  You probably could get away with a three prong to two prong adapter with the "regular" US cable (to use into the voltage converter) but I just went for authenticity and ordered this off Ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/272961810147


That may be authentic, but it's also less safe. Assuming you have a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter in your fuse box (you should!), that won't be able so save you in the very unlikely event that your STAX amp develops a ground fault and has 120V anywhere (or everywhere) on the case. Just use a regular 3 prong cable if you can.


----------



## rennwerkes

Eich1eeF said:


> That may be authentic, but it's also less safe. Assuming you have a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter in your fuse box (you should!), that won't be able so save you in the very unlikely event that your STAX amp develops a ground fault and has 120V anywhere (or everywhere) on the case. Just use a regular 3 prong cable if you can.



"Authenticy" was wrong.  I just meant I wanted to use a two prong cable without having to use an adapter with a "normal" use three prong cable.  I don't know if there's a voltage converter using a three prong output.  The one I just bought (and the other ones I've seen) all use two prong outlets.


----------



## Pahani

DrWhite said:


> Thanks for the answer,
> 
> Are u happy with your l700-353x combo?
> 
> Any need for tube warmness for vocals?



Oh, I am quite happy with my L700 + 353X combo  I also don't doubt that it could sound even better with some sort of KG amp.

How MUCH better and at what price? I cannot say *shrug* When I purchased my 353X, I spent the maximum my budget would allow with the understanding it would be at least several years before I could look for something else.

L700 vocals sound great to my ears, but I have zero experience with tubes even with my Dynamic headphones.


----------



## biscottino (Dec 26, 2018)

Two sister!


----------



## alphanumerix1

L700 with 717 or 353x or who wins?

Or another amp?


----------



## chinsettawong

biscottino said:


> Two sister!


Do they sound different?


----------



## biscottino

chinsettawong said:


> Do they sound different?


Yes, very different.


----------



## batfier

biscottino said:


> Yes, very different.


joking?

understood 009 and 009bk uses same technology, just the color is different. 

if not joking, could you please add some more details, what the differences are? 

thank you.


----------



## joseph69

biscottino said:


> Yes, very different.


Very nice.
In what ways would you say they sound "very different"?


----------



## Hubert481

Haha, newer equipement always sounds better - there are worlds in difference.
Same like using black or white power cord.


----------



## biscottino

batfier said:


> joking?
> 
> understood 009 and 009bk uses same technology, just the color is different.
> 
> ...



Are 009 black and 009s!


----------



## batfier (Dec 26, 2018)

biscottino said:


> Are 009 black and 009s!



ah ok, on the picture 009s did not looks golden enough...

so, they are sisters, but no twins


----------



## VRacer-111 (Dec 26, 2018)

biscottino said:


> Are 009 black and 009s!



Yes, we know they are 009s, but are they 009S?


----------



## AnakChan

VRacer-111 said:


> Yes, we know they are 009s, but are they 009S?


The silver is 009S, take a look at the mesh, it’s 3D raised, not flat.


----------



## biscottino

batfier said:


> ah ok, on the picture 009s did not looks golden enough...
> 
> so, they are sisters, but no twins



Yes, no twins


----------



## biscottino

AnakChan said:


> The silver is 009S, take a look at the mesh, it’s 3D raised, not flat.



exactly, one of the two details that distinguish it, in addition to the soun element in gold that perhaps in the picture you can not see well.


----------



## biscottino

Use them with this amp


----------



## thinker

Got the latest update from Phenomenon, the Canorum version V5 with new driver,the efficiency has improved a lot,it's now close to Lambda level,sounds already great with 252s.The drivers are now protected against moisture and dust with some kind of material


----------



## Mach3

biscottino said:


> Two sister!


What number is your's SR-009BK?

I was at Akihabara and had an extended listening of the SR-009 & SR-009S on the T8000 and the 007T MK2
Prefer the SR-009 on both amp for the soundstage and the more airy details.
However, when I received my SR-009BK it sound different from the SR-009.
Can someone with both the SR-009 and the SR-009BK confirm this? Farfetch I know.


----------



## ericj

Can someone suggest a way to acquire a replacement cable for an SR-001 Mk2? Maybe a specific deputee service in japan? 

I nicked mine somehow and it has developed a channel imbalance. That was a couple years ago, and at the time, Yamas said they could source it for me but i also saw where a lot of people were having trouble getting Yamas to deliver products. Between that and being in tight financial times, i didn't pursue it further. 

Stax USA only told me they don't have it.


----------



## HoloSpice

Mach3 said:


> What number is your's SR-009BK?
> 
> I was at Akihabara and had an extended listening of the SR-009 & SR-009S on the T8000 and the 007T MK2
> Prefer the SR-009 on both amp for the soundstage and the more airy details.
> ...


Different as in?


----------



## phaeton70

biscottino said:


> Use them with this amp



that's really heavy artillery Sal !!! congrats  and let me know when you will sell that MHz


----------



## biscottino

phaeton70 said:


> that's really heavy artillery Sal !!! congrats  and let me know when you will sell that MHz


Hi MIke, thanks, but
you with your KGSS GG can definitely shoot farther than me


----------



## cucera

@ericj

https://www.electromod.co.uk/stax/cables/cord-assembly-sr-001-002-stax/


----------



## Rayzilla

Rayzilla said:


> Those of you that have tried the SRM-323S and the SRM-353X, what similarities and differences do you notice between them.
> 
> And if you've tried either of the above and the SRM-D10, what similarities and differences do you hear.
> 
> Thanks.


Still hoping to hear some of your experiences of the above. I was ready to buy the D10 at the local HP shop but I wanted to demo it first. Unfortunately they didn't have a demo one so I haven't bought it yet.


----------



## jbrownson

Jodet said:


> I've had my 353X / L700 combo for a year and am very happy with it.    I'm wondering if my amp is limiting the L700's.
> 
> Would a Woo GES be an upgrade or a sidegrade?
> 
> Any other suggestions for an amp in the 2 to 2.5K or so range?



I listened to that combo for about a year and loved it. I to began wondering what the bottleneck was. I upgraded to a BHSE and was really impressed. I later picked up a 009S and found the upgrade to BHSE from 353X to be way more significant than the L700 to the 009S. L700 scales up _very_ nicely from a 353X. I can't speak specifically for the Woo GES unfortunately.

The 009Ss are great, but when the gf wants to listen too I'm very happy using the L700s and letting her use the 009Ss (she claims they fit her better  ).


----------



## VRacer-111 (Dec 28, 2018)

Jodet said:


> I've had my 353X / L700 combo for a year and am very happy with it.    I'm wondering if my amp is limiting the L700's.
> 
> Would a Woo GES be an upgrade or a sidegrade?
> 
> Any other suggestions for an amp in the 2 to 2.5K or so range?



Don't have L700, but have next closest thing in an L700 modded L300 Limited. Started off with SRM-323S then went to Mjolnir SRD-7 transformer + NAD C275BEE stereo amp based setup because already had the amp in use for my HT mains. Noticeable improvement in low end subbass impact, midbass punch, fullness of sound, and smoothness while everything else pretty much stays the same for clarity, detail, speed, etc... Brand new the NAD C275BEE amp runs ~$1,300 and Mjolnir SRD-7 around $740 shipped. Will just need some way to control volume better than the rear gain adjustment - I use the RME ADI-2 DAC for preamp volume control.

Pics:
https://photos.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Audio/n-6fh3fz/i-kPqJXCR/0/7342bfef/X4/i-kPqJXCR-X4.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Audio/n-6fh3fz/i-rpBHwSn/0/83849f46/X4/i-rpBHwSn-X4.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Audio/n-6fh3fz/i-T9FXhnN/0/43de842a/X4/i-T9FXhnN-X4.jpg

I think any decent 2 Channel stereo amp used with a Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 will be a noticeable improvement over the SRM-323S/353X for much less than the specialized custom STAX amps.


----------



## Jodet

VRacer-111 said:


> Don't have L700, but have next closest thing in an L700 modded L300 Limited. Started off with SRM-323S then went to Mjolnir SRD-7 transformer + NAD C275BEE stereo amp based setup because already had the amp in use for my HT mains. Noticeable improvement in low end subbass impact, midbass punch, fullness of sound, and smoothness while everything else pretty much stays the same for clarity, detail, speed, etc... Brand new the NAD C275BEE amp runs ~$1,300 and Mjolnir SRD-7 around $740 shipped. Will just need some way to control volume better than the rear gain adjustment - I use the RME ADI-2 DAC for preamp volume control.
> 
> Pics:
> https://photos.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Audio/n-6fh3fz/i-kPqJXCR/0/7342bfef/X4/i-kPqJXCR-X4.jpg
> ...




Interesting - I've wondered about the Mjolnir energizer.    I tried a Woo WEE once and hated it.    But I do have a nice Hegel integrated I could hook the Mjolnir energizer to.    Or maybe get the Mjolnir Octave III power amp and us the Hegel as a preamp.


----------



## VRacer-111

Jodet said:


> Interesting - I've wondered about the Mjolnir energizer.    I tried a Woo WEE once and hated it.    But I do have a nice Hegel integrated I could hook the Mjolnir energizer to.    Or maybe get the Mjolnir Octave III power amp and us the Hegel as a preamp.



I'd imagine a Mjolnir SRD-7 + Hegel integrated would be a very nice combo... the amp is what really shapes their sound. With an SRD-7 electrostat transformer you have the ability to pair whatever amp you want, so if you want to experiment it's just a matter of connecting a different amp. I originally wanted the prototype Octave III Birgir had, but it was spoken for when I emailed him so I asked him about the SRD-7 and decided to go that route. He has a nice one-off special SRD-7 he made that is listed on this page, 4th from bottom:

https://mjolnir-audio.com/used-amplifiers/


----------



## Pahani

jbrownson said:


> I listened to that combo for about a year and loved it. I to began wondering what the bottleneck was. I upgraded to a BHSE and was really impressed. I later picked up a 009S and found the upgrade to BHSE from 353X to be way more significant than the L700 to the 009S. L700 scales up _very_ nicely from a 353X. I can't speak specifically for the Woo GES unfortunately.
> 
> The 009Ss are great, but when the gf wants to listen too I'm very happy using the L700s and letting her use the 009Ss (she claims they fit her better  ).



Thanks for your impression, though my wallet is silently giving you the finger!


VRacer-111 said:


> Don't have L700, but have next closest thing in an L700 modded L300 Limited. Started off with SRM-323S then went to Mjolnir SRD-7 transformer + NAD C275BEE stereo amp based setup because already had the amp in use for my HT mains. Noticeable improvement in low end subbass impact, midbass punch, fullness of sound, and smoothness while everything else pretty much stays the same for clarity, detail, speed, etc... Brand new the NAD C275BEE amp runs ~$1,300 and Mjolnir SRD-7 around $740 shipped. Will just need some way to control volume better than the rear gain adjustment - I use the RME ADI-2 DAC for preamp volume control.
> 
> Pics:
> https://photos.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Audio/n-6fh3fz/i-kPqJXCR/0/7342bfef/X4/i-kPqJXCR-X4.jpg
> ...



Ohhhhh...I'm actually eyeballing the RME DAC myself. Plan to do lots more research before I jump into anything, of course.


----------



## Zoide

Pahani said:


> Thanks for your impression, though my wallet is silently giving you the finger!
> 
> 
> Ohhhhh...I'm actually eyeballing the RME DAC myself. Plan to do lots more research before I jump into anything, of course.



Just keep in mind that DAC upgrades usually make less of a difference than amp upgrades


----------



## Mach3

HoloSpice said:


> Different as in?



Same level of detail and soundstage but slightly more low end.
That why I need someone with both to confirm. Could be just my ears adjusting to new gear.


----------



## catscratch

Mach3 said:


> Same level of detail and soundstage but slightly more low end.
> That why I need someone with both to confirm. Could be just my ears adjusting to new gear.



It could also be old pads vs new pads. Not sure how it is on the 009 but pad wear affects the sound on the 007 a lot. If swapping pads isn't too much of a pain in the rear, you can swap them around and test.


----------



## nemomec (Dec 30, 2018)

Mach3 said:


> Same level of detail and soundstage but slightly more low end.
> That why I need someone with both to confirm. Could be just my ears adjusting to new gear.



Yes i have the same experience and i think the reason are the deeper pads of the SR-009 BK and as result a little bit more "boomy" bass with a small amount of more distortion. Over the time and after some hours burn in and pads subside we will see further.


----------



## statfi

nemomec said:


> 4. Stax SR-009S (for electronic music very good but not as transparent like SR-009)


I would be interested in reading more words about S vs. orig, and what specifically you mean by "more transparent", e.g., can you hear more space between performers, etc.  Thx!


----------



## nemomec

statfi said:


> I would be interested in reading more words about S vs. orig, and what specifically you mean by "more transparent", e.g., can you hear more space between performers, etc.  Thx!



In my experience the standard SR-009 has a deeper soundstage, there are more layers. This results in more air around voices and instruments and you can hear all details of the recording room.


----------



## phaeton70

Agree on soundstage. And I find the 009S' timbre a little bit too dark for my liking (of course this is only in comparison with the old 009, I'm not saying 009S is dark sounding), with less details on higher harmonics  But this could very well be because I'm used to 009 and/or my setup is tuned around the 009. 

At the end, I think the most distinctive characteristic between the two queens is the bass level. If you think your 009 with your current setup is a little bit too bright, you will find (maybe) 009S just perfect. If you think (like me) 009 is perfect with your current setup, you will find (maybe) 009S to be too "bassy". Everything else (soundstage, highs details, etc..) is just a consequence.

Of course the above is just IMVVVVVVHO


----------



## Mach3 (Dec 31, 2018)

statfi said:


> I would be interested in reading more words about S vs. orig, and what specifically you mean by "more transparent", e.g., can you hear more space between performers, etc.  Thx!


When I was at Akiharbara with my wife. She has zero experience with anything related to audio gear. I had a blindfold on her and asked her which headphone she liked more between the S and the non S. 5/5 times she prefered the non S. When I ask her why. She just said I don't know. The non S just seem clearer. I can hear more things going on.


----------



## Mach3

She asked me why the S is more expensive?
Personal taste I guess.
SR-009 https://imgur.com/a/TQ6zpyI

To me I personally prefer the SR-009 over the SR-009S. Even to untrained ears like my wife you can easily tell the difference. You lose wider soundstage, airyness & microdetails for a noticeable warmth / bass bump.


----------



## statfi

nemomec said:


> In my experience the standard SR-009 has a deeper soundstage, there are more layers. This results in more air around voices and instruments and you can hear all details of the recording room.





phaeton70 said:


> 009S is dark sounding), with less details on higher harmonics





Mach3 said:


> You lose wider soundstage, airyness & microdetails for a noticeable warmth / bass bump.


Ah, gentlemen, these are comments that I can really understand and can relate to my own experiences in the audio world.   I am a bit surprised.  My impression of the 009 is that it is the king of retrieving details to give the illusion of sound stage with air between instruments (by differentiating direct from reverberant sound) and micro details (like a rosined bow sticking and slipping along a violin string).  I thought that Stax had very successfully evolved in that direction over the decades, and I *wondered* if the 009s was yet another step in that direction.  'Apparently not, based on your comments.  Thanks so much!


----------



## walakalulu

On the other hand I’ve gone from the 009 to the 00S which I find less fatiguing over time. I’m happy to sacrifice the last ounce of detail for greater musicality imho. I still find all the detail there, just “ less in yer face”.


----------



## tigon_ridge

Does anyone have any new information or impressions on Spritzer's Octave 2? It's supposedly his lowest-power offering, at 15 watt input, while at the same time having more output power than almost all of Stax's amps. Priced at $1300, it sounds like extremely good value given those specs.


----------



## Magol79

tigon_ridge said:


> Does anyone have any new information or impressions on Spritzer's Octave 2? It's supposedly his lowest-power offering, at 15 watt input, while at the same time having more output power than almost all of Stax's amps. Priced at $1300, it sounds like extremely good value given those specs.


Yeah, I've been waffling about wether I should get this for my L700 or not. Now I'm leaning more towards getting one. Its compact size makes it a good option for a desktop setup. I'm actually thinking of getting the Octave III and use my Questyle cma400i as a preamp. Spritzer says it's a warmer amp, which I think matches well with the L700. I'd also be really interested in reading others impressions of the Octave II / III.


----------



## vinekly

I own the 007 mk1 and 009 but am wondering if I should get the 007 mk2 too. Can anyone comment on any advantages of 007 mk2 over what I already own? Does anyone favor 007 mk2 over mk1?


----------



## JimL11

vinekly said:


> I own the 007 mk1 and 009 but am wondering if I should get the 007 mk2 too. Can anyone comment on any advantages of 007 mk2 over what I already own? Does anyone favor 007 mk2 over mk1?



Here (raises hand). The 007 MkII with spritzer's port mod sits between the Mk1 and the 009, tonally. To my ears, the Mk1 sounds slightly soft, the 009 sounds slightly bright and the Mk 2 is pretty close to tonally neutral. Also, on a brief listen the Focal Utopias seemed to sit, tonally between the Mk2 and the 009, brighter than the Mk 2 and not quite as bright as the 009. I use a specific CD recording to evaluate treble tonal balance, the Melkus Bach Violin Concertos on DG Archiv. On my Quad electrostatics and the Mk 2 with port mod, the violins sound a bit acid, on the Mk I they sound fine, on the 009 they sound too acid (curiously, on the original LP, which I also have, the violin tone sounds fine - that's played with a Shure V15 VMR). Anyway, that's my opinion, for what it's worth. However, I will add that Bob Katz, the noted recording engineer, shares my opinion - look for his impressions on InnerFidelity from Big Sound 2015. Tyll Hertsens was also pretty impressed with a port modded Mk 2.

As a more general comment, since a number of posters have reported that the 009 is more detailed and has a somewhat wider soundstage than the 007 (Mk I or Mk 2), I will note that it is a well known psychoacoustic phenomenon that a brighter sound tends to increase the impression of detail and widen the soundstage. I prefer to get the tonal balance correct (or what I consider correct) first - just my priority. Yes I am aware of EQ. I use it, but only for the bass subwoofer in my biamped speaker systems.

Others may differ. And of course, opinions are like a******s, everyone has one. Yours is the one that counts, but only for you. As someone once said, "You are unique. Just like everyone else."


----------



## Ali-Pacha

statfi said:


> My impression of the 009 is that it is the king of retrieving details to give the illusion of sound stage with air between instruments (by differentiating direct from reverberant sound) and micro details (like a rosined bow sticking and slipping along a violin string).


You obviously never ever listened to a well amped pair of HE-60 / Baby Orpheus, man 

Ali


----------



## wink

The HE-60 is magic at times..........


----------



## azabu

vinekly said:


> I own the 007 mk1 and 009 but am wondering if I should get the 007 mk2 too. Can anyone comment on any advantages of 007 mk2 over what I already own? Does anyone favor 007 mk2 over mk1?



Just pick up the Stax spc extension cable for your 007 Mk1. It's an inexpensive upgrade and will give you a nice bump in SQ.


----------



## AnakChan

JimL11 said:


> [Snip!]
> Also, on a brief listen the Focal Utopias seemed to sit, tonally between the Mk2 and the 009, brighter than the Mk 2 and not quite as bright as the 009.
> [Snip!]


That’s interesting. I’ve had the 009 and Utopias together for the pat 2 year and to me, the Utopias are brighter than the 009. The Utopias are driven off by the WA8 whilst the 009 by the Electra. Further I’ve found the 009 to have smoother trebles and more open, whilst the Utopia, depending on genre, can sound congested and “busy”.


----------



## vinekly

azabu said:


> Just pick up the Stax spc extension cable for your 007 Mk1. It's an inexpensive upgrade and will give you a nice bump in SQ.


Interesting, how does that work?


----------



## purk (Jan 4, 2019)

AnakChan said:


> That’s interesting. I’ve had the 009 and Utopias together for the pat 2 year and to me, the Utopias are brighter than the 009. The Utopias are driven off by the WA8 whilst the 009 by the Electra. Further I’ve found the 009 to have smoother trebles and more open, whilst the Utopia, depending on genre, can sound congested and “busy”.


That tiny soundstage really did the Utopia in for me.  I also find the Utopia to be just bright if not brighter than the 009.


----------



## phaeton70

Utopia has IMHO a "genetically small" soundstage, definitely smaller than 009 with whatever amp I have listened this hps with.

Both hps are really very sensitive to the amp used. 

With the right amp, 009 is just tonally perfect IMHO, never fatiguing or unnaturally bright. 

Utopia on the other hand alwas retains a slight sense of brightness even with the right amp, I think it's something Focal has engineered on purpose to give that "airy" sensation... I like it, Utopia is definitely my preferred dynamic non-ortho hp, but sometimes I must admit it is a little too bright and with some music also fatiguing.


----------



## azabu

vinekly said:


> Interesting, how does that work?



I've found adding the Stax SPC extension cable opens up the soundstage and adds sparkle to the treble. Remove the extension cable and the 007Mk2 sounds a little dull and compressed.

It's definitely worth trying for the small outlay.


----------



## alan967tiger

azabu said:


> I've found adding the Stax SPC extension cable opens up the soundstage and adds sparkle to the treble. Remove the extension cable and the 007Mk2 sounds a little dull and compressed.
> 
> It's definitely worth trying for the small outlay.


+ 1: the extension cable added something that I liked to my previous 007 mk 2s and current 009S. Reading your comment has helped me to realise that it has added sparkle to the treble


----------



## statfi

alan967tiger said:


> + 1: the extension cable added something that I liked to my previous 007 mk 2s and current 009S. Reading your comment has helped me to realise that it has added sparkle to the treble


Very interesting!  Does anyone know how the extension cable affects the frequency response?  If not, we could ask Jude to tell us  !-)


----------



## joseph69

phaeton70 said:


> Utopia has IMHO a "genetically small" soundstage, definitely smaller than 009 with whatever amp I have listened this hps with.


What amps did you use with the Utopia to come to this conclusion?


----------



## Mach3

azabu said:


> I've found adding the Stax SPC extension cable opens up the soundstage and adds sparkle to the treble. Remove the extension cable and the 007Mk2 sounds a little dull and compressed.
> 
> It's definitely worth trying for the small outlay.


I've got the Stax SPC extension and I could not for the life of me add any sparkle nor treble to my SR-007 MK1


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## walakalulu

As the extension cable is silver plated copper I would guess that an increased length may add to high frequency uplift.


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## Jones Bob (Jan 4, 2019)

Using any STAX cable extension adds capacitance to the load the amp sees. Depends on the amp and available output current, whether there will be an audible HF roll off when using one. Generally speaking there will be a slight change (degradation?) in SQ when using one, especially with the lower powered STAX amps. Applies to either the silver plated or plain copper version.


----------



## PointyFox




----------



## 336881

If headphone cables are anything like speaker cables the cable itself should act like a resistor. Why you want your speaker cables the same length. It should be a degradation but who knows.


----------



## PointyFox (Jan 4, 2019)

antimatter said:


> If headphone cables are anything like speaker cables the cable itself should act like a resistor. Why you want your speaker cables the same length. It should be a degradation but who knows.



How does length, resistance, load compare?


----------



## azabu

Jones Bob said:


> Using any STAX cable extension adds capacitance to the load the amp sees. Depends on the amp and available output current, whether there will be an audible HF roll off when using one. Generally speaking there will be a slight change (degradation?) in SQ when using one, especially with the lower powered STAX amps. Applies to either the silver plated or plain copper version.



I'm running a BHSE and don't hear any degradation at all, just a nice uplift in tone from the silver-plated copper cable. I have experienced degradation when using iem adapters, nothing too drastic but noticeable.


----------



## Jones Bob

With a BHSE, there is enough power to drive the additional capacitance of the extension cable. You might not notice much of a degradation with that setup. I believe I can with my now sold SR-007 MK2 and current SR-009s though. Or at least I enjoy them more without the extension cable in the signal path.

Just asking: How do you know its the SRE-925S silver plated cable that is responsible for your observation? Have you compared it to the SRE-725 plain copper version? I’m far from being a wire agnostic, as after a lot of experimentation, I settled on using custom Neotech silver/gold alloy solid core wire for my signal wires. Even replaced the internal wire in my GG from the PCB to STAX jack with it. That was one area that did not make much SQ difference.


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## JimL11

AnakChan said:


> That’s interesting. I’ve had the 009 and Utopias together for the pat 2 year and to me, the Utopias are brighter than the 009. The Utopias are driven off by the WA8 whilst the 009 by the Electra. Further I’ve found the 009 to have smoother trebles and more open, whilst the Utopia, depending on genre, can sound congested and “busy”.



Might be due to differences in amplification. This was at a local meet, there weren't a lot of people there so it was relatively quiet. I used a BHSE for the 009, but I plugged the Utopias into a Gilmore Lite MkI with LPS. Yes, I know, a HUGE difference in amp cost, but that was what I had to listen through. Reportedly the Utopias are relatively insensitive to amp choice, and I believe that the Gilmore Lite is considered a relatively bass-light amp. Same source for both amps (Mojo Audio Mystique V2 plus DAC). On classical (specifically Elgar's Cello Concerto by du Pre, the Utopias did sound a bit confused compared with my 007 MkII, which I prefer to the 009s.


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## JimL11 (Jan 5, 2019)

antimatter said:


> If headphone cables are anything like speaker cables the cable itself should act like a resistor.



Electrostatic headphone cable requirements are NOT anything like speaker cables. Speakers generally have an nominal impedance of 4-8 ohms and a real impedance of 2-30 ohms or more (the Quad ESL runs between 35 ohms and 2 ohms of the audio spectrum, and at high frequencies somewhat resembles a 2 uf capacitor. Speaker amps have an output impedance of a fraction of an ohm, and may rise somewhat at the highest audio frequencies - this is especially true of transformer tube amps. Thy often have to deliver several amps on musical peaks along with tens of volts. So, speaker amps are moderately high voltages, high currents (by comparison)

Dynamic and planar headphones generally have an impedance between 10/s to 100's of ohms, Dynamic headphones commonly have a bass peak which may be two or more times the nominal impedance, while planar headphones are generally pretty flat across the audio frequency spectrum. Dynamic and planar amps usually have to deliver less than 1 amp and a few volts. The least efficient planar headphones will deliver 120 dB with 17 volts RMS or less, sufficient to cause permanent hearing damage within a minute.So, non- electrostatic headphone amps, relatively low voltages and moderate currents.

Electrostatic headphones have a largely capacitative impedance which is broadly similar to a capacitor of around 100 pf, give or take. Impedance is very high - the Stax SR-007, for example, is specified as having and impedance of 170 kilohms at 10 kHz. This means that at 100 Hz, its impedance should be around 17 megohms. Electrostatic amplifiers can produce 100s of volts, but usually have to deliver peak currents of 5-10 milliamps, or thereabouts. So, electrostatic headphone amps, very high voltages, very low currents.

Every cable (speaker, headphone, interconnect) has a combination of resistive, capacitative and inductive components. This is due to the physics of paired conductors and is inescapable. Increasing the distance between two parallel wires increases their inductance be decreases their capacitance.

For speakers, because speaker impedances are low, low resistance is very important, inductance may or may not be important (it can be significant for electrostatic speakers because it is highest at the highest audio frequencies, where electrostatic speaker impedances are lowest, whereas most dynamic speaker impedances tend to rise at the highest frequencies due to the inductance of the tweeter voice coil, which offsets the rise of the cable due to its inductance), and capacitance is not that important except if it causes amp instability and oscillation (bad). For example, 10 feet of 18 gauge zip cord, has about 280 pf of capacitance. OTOH, 10 feet of Polk cable, which was an early "super" cable, had a capacitance of around 5000 pf, which was enough to cause oscillation in some amplifiers of the time.

For Dynamic and planar headphones, low resistance is relatively important, inductance is  unimportant because it is generally negligible compared to headphone impedance for any audio frequency, and capacitance only matters if it causes amp instability. Given the impedances, voltage and current demands, the wire diameters in headphone cables are similar to those of interconnect cables. Belden cable specifies that 26 gauge wire can carry more than1 amp of current with less than a 10 degree centigrade rise in temperature of the wire.

For electrostatic headphones, resistance and inductance are unimportant because both are negligible for typical cable lengths compared to the impedance of the headphone itself, but capacitance is very important, because excess capacitance requires more current drive with increasing frequency. If the extension cable has 100 pf of capacitance, which is a typical amount for a standard interconnect cable 1 meter in length, for example, that doubles the amount of current that the amp has to deliver to produce the same signal at the headphones. So a 100 pf extension cable is equivalent to connecting a second headphone to the amplifier.

So, the primary requirement for an extension cable for electrostatic headphones is very low capacitance. I find it noteworthy that Stax and Koss, who individually have more experience designing and building electrostatic headphones, than all the other companies currently marketing electrostatic headphones put together, both came up with a similar flat, parallel wire cable whereas on their earlier phones, they both used round cables. Perhaps they know something the other companies don't.


----------



## azabu

Jones Bob said:


> With a BHSE, there is enough power to drive the additional capacitance of the extension cable. You might not notice much of a degradation with that setup. I believe I can with my now sold SR-007 MK2 and current SR-009s though. Or at least I enjoy them more without the extension cable in the signal path.
> 
> Just asking: How do you know its the SRE-925S silver plated cable that is responsible for your observation? Have you compared it to the SRE-725 plain copper version? I’m far from being a wire agnostic, as after a lot of experimentation, I settled on using custom Neotech silver/gold alloy solid core wire for my signal wires. Even replaced the internal wire in my GG from the PCB to STAX jack with it. That was one area that did not make much SQ difference.



The SR-007 Mk2 uses copper for the headphone cable, so it's just a matter of plugging in the SRE-925 SPC extension cable for a simple AB test. The extension cable is just a small and inexpensive tweak to lift the treble and bring it closer to the 009 series *cough*. At this stage, I'm more than pleased with my system and will probably get a Mutec Ref 10 instead of picking up a 009S.


----------



## walakalulu

Given the circuit requirements of energisers, are they more susceptible to mains cable variations than standard headphone amps? This seems to be my experience.


----------



## popof94

Hi all, I leave in Paris and just bough here from a reputable member a STAX SRM600 in 117VA. I want it rewired in 220VA. I saw some post from 2012 about that but I can’t open the old link. Anybody can help me? Many thanks jm


----------



## JimL11 (Jan 5, 2019)

popof94 said:


> Hi all, I leave in Paris and just bough here from a reputable member a STAX SRM600 in 117VA. I want it rewired in 220VA. I saw some post from 2012 about that but I can’t open the old link. Anybody can help me? Many thanks jm



Try contacting spritzer at Mjolnir Audio. I remember he posted instructions on doing a voltage conversion several years ago. The T1 series had a voltage converter built in but I don't know if the SRM600 did.

Also, I seem to remember hearing of some issues with the plate output resistors blowing up. If you want to improve its performance further, you can modify the amp by replacing the plate output resistors with my constant current mod. People who have done the mod in the T1 series (which has essentially the same design except for the output tube and plate resistor values) report tighter bass, more extended highs, and better detail.


----------



## popof94

Done, contacted spritzer and Kevin Gilmore and both have explained how to rewire from 117V to 240V. However I am a little bit afraid because spritzer told me that the amplifier has already been rewired from 100V to 117V an If something fails there...then it would destroy the amp.


----------



## JimL11 (Jan 5, 2019)

popof94 said:


> Done, contacted spritzer and Kevin Gilmore and both have explained how to rewire from 117V to 240V. However I am a little bit afraid because spritzer told me that the amplifier has already been rewired from 100V to 117V an If something fails there...then it would destroy the amp.



If that is a concern, you can always get a 240V to 120V step down transformer to drop your AC from 240V to 120V. Just plug the step-down transformer into your wall socket, and the amp into the step-down transformer. The amp uses 52 watts so any transformer rated for higher wattage than that should be OK.

If you are interested in the constant current mod, I published an article on it in AudioXpress July 2017. I believe back issues are available for $9 US plus postage. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.


----------



## popof94

Thanks, I have ordered one on Amazon to begin, but if I can rewired it I will be better for me. Thanks for your help, jm


----------



## bearwarrior

Does anyone know the instruction to change the Stax-009 pads? Pics will be even better. Thanks!


----------



## SeaWo|f

its not a hard task from a technical stand point, but it is a frustrating, fiddly pain in the ass. Not sure how to describe it.


----------



## Jones Bob

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods.754839/#post-11347708


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## Trance_Gott

For information: I'm selling my SR-009S for a very very good price. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-009s-low-price-for-quicksale.897768/


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## natto lover

seems expensive


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## paulchiu

A new SR009S in the states goes for $4325 or 3,770 EUR at today's exchange rates


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## Trance_Gott (Jan 16, 2019)

I'm from germany. Here in europe it cost 5250€. When you buy in the state for 3770€ you have to pay 21% custom fees. And problems with guarantee and so on.
My sale thread is only for europe guys makes no sense to send it to the USA.
http://kopfhoererboutique.com/product/stax-sr009s
https://www.hifi-im-hinterhof.de/sr-009s.html

So my price is a real bargain in europe! 

As info for our US guys the LCD4 cost in germany 4999€! What but it's true.
https://www.projekt-akustik.de/LCD-...MI8v72tJXz3wIVkuF3Ch0h4wrdEAQYAyABEgLpQvD_BwE


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## Mach3

Trance_Gott said:


> I'm from germany. Here in europe it cost 5250€. When you buy in the state for 3770€ you have to pay 21% custom fees. And problems with guarantee and so on.
> My sale thread is only for europe guys makes no sense to send it to the USA.
> http://kopfhoererboutique.com/product/stax-sr009s
> https://www.hifi-im-hinterhof.de/sr-009s.html
> ...



What Trance_Gott mention is true. The tax in Europe is crazy, I was on holiday in Europe last year and as a tourist you can get 20% off most stuff if you present your passport.
Other country I've visited only has between 8-10%.


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## Hubert481

Trance_Gott said:


> For information: I'm selling my SR-009S for a very very good price.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-009s-low-price-for-quicksale.897768/



Nobody will sell the best headphone, he ownes.
Sorry, but i would never sell a hp after 20 hours of listening, if its the best of the world.


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## padam (Jan 17, 2019)

Outside the EU, here is another SR-009S that's even cheaper: https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9afad-stax-sr-009s-brand-new-over-ear


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## hanouk (Jan 17, 2019)

What causes channel imbalance other than dust ?

I stored my Lambda Pro for one month (in a drawer, protected by the stax dust cover) as I didnt use it.
10 days ago, I plugged them again for some listening, but was surprised to discover a major imbalance - right driver was very quiet at first (almost silent to be honest), but after 5-10 minutes of music, reached the volume of the left driver. I didnt have this issue before (I own them since may 2018).
Tried to listen to them the following days, and this channel imbalance issue persisted, but every time the imbalance disappeared after a few minutes and they worked fine for hours and hours.

That doesnt seem to be a serious issue, otherwise I wouldnt be able to have the right driver charge and get back to normal volume no ? I've read reports on head-fi of people managing to solve this imbalance issue by not plugging their earspeakers for some time, while other did the opposite.

Also, as I now only own one pair of Stax, is there a way to confirm this imbalance issue is coming from the Lambda and not the amp ? (323S, bought in 2011). I owned 007 and Sigma Pro but sold them 2-3 months ago, both worked fine on the amp, but as did the Lambda Pro at that time.

Thanks.


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## Mach3

You can try to swap the rca inputs to see if it actually the amp and not the earspeakers.


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## bearFNF

When you started listening was the amp warmed up or did you start listening from a cold amp? If the amp was cold to start with. Try unplugging the earspeakers. Then turn on the amp and let it warm up for 20 or 30 minutes. Then plug in the earspeakers  to see if the imbalance is there. It may be that amp needs to wsrm up or the earspeakers need time to get going. I know my Lambda NB from the '80s need a few minutes to "charge up" when first plugged in. YMMV and all that.



hanouk said:


> What causes channel imbalance other than dust ?
> 
> I stored my Lambda Pro for one month (in a drawer, protected by the stax dust cover) as I didnt use it.
> 10 days ago, I plugged them again for some listening, but was surprised to discover a major imbalance - right driver was very quiet at first (almost silent to be honest), but after 5-10 minutes of music, reached the volume of the left driver. I didnt have this issue before (I own them since may 2018).
> ...


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## raband

hanouk said:


> What causes channel imbalance other than dust ?





Mach3 said:


> You can try to swap the rca inputs to see if it actually the amp and not the earspeakers.



+1 for this

I've got a 353x - the balanced inputs have no imbalance, RCA have a huge one that wanders.

I'm going to try swapping RCA cables next - had never thought of the cables being the issue


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## chinsettawong

The two diaphragms can also take a little different amount of time to charge up.  So, it’s best to plug them in a minute or two before you listen.


----------



## adidas128

Has anyone bought used Stax 009S, what's a good used price?


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

Can anyone make a video on how to install the SR-009 / SR-009S pads?. One of my 009S pads slipped a bit so I have been trying to put it on for hours now. I cant seem to get it to fit tight enough compared to the other pad and the leather bunches up more when I put it on compared to the left pad. (right pad is the one I tried to reput on)


----------



## PointyFox

Use something flat and plastic, maybe a credit card if it will fit, to poke the pad material into place for about an inch, then pull it into place, working in a circle until it's all tucked in.


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## Mach3 (Jan 20, 2019)

Both the 323s and the 353x are solid state drivers. Shouldn't take more than 5-10 to charge up.


----------



## chococya96 (Jan 21, 2019)

Hey guys, I'm having this weird noise issue with my L300 + 252s.

Basically, I'm hearing this constant weird humming/buzzing noise (?) from the left channel of my L300 whenever I turn on the 252s. It's a one note noise where there are no fluctuations. The noise is present all the time regardless of whether the amp is on or off.

I really don't know the correct term for this specific noise but, it sounds like one of those VHS tape playback where you hear humming noise during idle.
Furthermore, I can hear the noise even when I disconnect L300 from 252s! After disconnecting the 5 pin pro bias cable, when I physically touch the 252s, the noise is more prevalent.

The only way to get rid of this noise is by unplugging the power input from the back of 252s. Then the noise is completely gone. Plug it back in, and the noise back again.

I really don't know what's going on with my STAX srs-3100. I'm not even sure if the fault lies on the earspeaker or the amp, or both. It's almost a month since I've purchased this set and I didn't experience this noise issue as it recently happened a few days ago.

I appreciate your help.


UPDATE: According to various threads relating to humming/buzzing noise, it seems like the problem is most likely caused by *ground loop issue*. Can anyone confirm this?

FYI, the wall outlet that I'm currently using are properly grounded. Also, the humming/buzzing noise is not present on my other amps (Magni 3, JDS the element). It's only my STAX set that is having this noise issue.

I've tried the following to see if the noise goes away though none of them worked:
- Trying different input cables (USB, coax and optical)
- Placing my DAC (JDS EL DAC) away from srm-252s. My original setup was stacking the amp on top of the DAC
- Plugging the power adapter to different outlets on my UPS unit. I use Cyberpower 1500VA
- Plugging the power adapter directly to the wall outlet

Lastly, I'd like to mention that I live in Australia and I've bought Stax srs-3100 from authorized Australian seller which, comes with a power adapter that is rated for aus voltage.
As for the plug, although it comes with Australian plug, it doesn't have grounding pin on the plug. I'm not sure if this is relevant as my other amps also comes with aus plug without grounding pin.

Is the power adapter the culprit? Or is it my STAX amp that is causing this problem? Again, I did not experience this issue before.

Argh, this is driving me nuts...


UPDATE 2: Another weird thing that I've found out is while the noise is present, when I lay my hand on top of SRM-252S, the noise disappears. Then when I remove my hand from it, the noise is back again.


----------



## Don Quichotte

Back in my mother's house where I was living, my Stax SRM-313 energizer also exhibited some noise which disappeared when I touched its chassis. It turned out that the grounding on the electric outlet was actually,,, not grounded. The SRM-313 has a grounding pin on the back of the chassis, so I connected a wire from the chassis to a true ground in the house (a heating pipe) and the noise was gone.


----------



## mlxx

kanade96 said:


> Basically, I'm hearing this constant weird humming/buzzing noise (?) from the left channel of my L300 whenever I turn on the 252s. It's a one note noise where there are no fluctuations. The noise is present all the time regardless of whether the amp is on or off.



You say you hear a hum when you turn on the 252 but also when its on or off. It is weird it will still hum when off.



kanade96 said:


> UPDATE 2: Another weird thing that I've found out is while the noise is present, when I lay my hand on top of SRM-252S, the noise disappears. Then when I remove my hand from it, the noise is back again.



Does the humming also go away if you place something heavy on the case like a heavy book (something non conductive) instead of your hand?

It doesn't seem like an earthing issue as the power adapter has no earth pin and the 252 uses a DC power supply so both these are isolated from earth. The hum is only in one channel so I don't think the power adapter is at fault or it would affect both channels most likely. It could be a "signal" ground issue, does it still hum if you disconnect all the interconnect cables? If you swap the interconnect cables does it still hum in the same channel? Also have you tried different interconnect cables?


----------



## chococya96 (Jan 21, 2019)

mlxx said:


> You say you hear a hum when you turn on the 252 but also when its on or off. It is weird it will still hum when off.



Yes, it also hums when I turn off the 252 (i.e. turning the knob counter clockwise until it clicks and the led goes out). And while the unit is off, when I place my hand on the amp the hum is more prevalent and audible.
It's only when I unplug the power (either from the adapter or from back of 252) where the hum is no audible from my L300.



mlxx said:


> Does the humming also go away if you place something heavy on the case like a heavy book (something non conductive) instead of your hand?
> 
> It doesn't seem like an earthing issue as the power adapter has no earth pin and the 252 uses a DC power supply so both these are isolated from earth. The hum is only in one channel so I don't think the power adapter is at fault or it would affect both channels most likely. It could be a "signal" ground issue, does it still hum if you disconnect all the interconnect cables? If you swap the interconnect cables does it still hum in the same channel? Also have you tried different interconnect cables?



Yes, any weight on top of the the amp will somehow make the hum go away.

As for RCA interconnect cables, it'll still hum even when I:
- Disconnect both R and L from 252
- Swapping R and L around (it's still audible from left side)
- Trying different RCA cables


Alll in all, I've actually contacted the authorized Australian STAX distributor and they told me to send the whole set (including the earspeaker) for further diagnostics. They told me that this is first time this kind of issue has happened for any STAX lambda earspeakers. 
I've packed everything away to its original packaging box and I'll be sending it out today or tomorrow.
Though, if there's any other troubleshooting I could try before posting it away, please let me know.


----------



## mlxx

kanade96 said:


> Though, if there's any other troubleshooting I could try before posting it away, please let me know.



Can't do much more from the outside, seems like an internal fault, better to let them fix it under warranty.


----------



## chococya96

mlxx said:


> Can't do much more from the outside, seems like an internal fault, better to let them fix it under warranty.



Thanks for the swift reply. I'll send it in and see how it goes.

There's one thing I don't quite get regarding to this issue: why didn't it happen earlier? Like, when I first acquired STAX srs-3100 a month ago? 
Did the parts inside the amp or power adapter "degraded" slowly to the point where the hum noise was audible or something? 
Strange.


----------



## mlxx

Could be something has just come loose since it goes away when you press on it. Opening it could void your warranty.
Chances are whatever is wrong you won't be able to fix yourself anyway so better to use the warranty. 
They will probably just replace it with another one.


----------



## hanouk

Well, i've tried turning on the amp for 30 min then plugging the Lambda and playing music - right driver was still quiet and went to normal level after a few minutes. So this is definitely an earspeakers issue.

Next day I tried both times swapping the RCAs but the Lambda worked perfectly right after I played music. Surpisingly, seems they work fine now.


----------



## Grant99

Has anyone ever replaced the headphone case  holder on a SR-404?  I'm referring to the black arm that attaches to the headphone case & allows the headphone case to pivot, it is attached to the headband.  The black arm is broken, so I am trying to remove it from the headband; it looks like it is locked onto the headband by a either a pin or a rivet of some kind, but I'm not 100% sure if this is what's holding it in place.  Is it possible to push this pin/rivet out using a small drift/pin or do I have to get some special tool?

I'm trying to replace just the black arm/case holder instead of the entire headband assembly, there's a website in the UK that sells is separately.  
Any suggestions/comments would be  greatly appreciated, thanks!!


----------



## Doom0 (Jan 22, 2019)

@Grant99 Do you mean this pin?


If so, I used Torx T6 screwdriver to get it out.

EDIT: Yes, this small pin holds the case holder in a place. When you take it out, case holder will fall out. Here is the image illustrating where the pin is blocking the case holder from falling out (at least for Stax L300 headband, but I guess 404's headband is very similar):


----------



## Grant99

Doom0 said:


> @Grant99 Do you mean this pin?
> 
> If so, I used Torx T6 screwdriver to get it out.
> 
> EDIT: Yes, this small pin holds the case holder in a place. When you take it out, case holder will fall out. Here is the image illustrating where the pin is blocking the case holder from falling out (at least for Stax L300 headband, but I guess 404's headband is very similar):


Yes, that's it!  I didn't have a torx driver that size but after I read your reply I used a very small sized drill bit...just had to tap it a few times.  And was able to tap it back into with the replacement case holder.    Thanks!

The best thing about this is that you can still get replacement parts for Stax headphones...even when they are like 20 years  old.  I think that says a lot about what kind of company Stax is.

Again, thanks for your help on this one, I really appreciate it!
regards, Grant


----------



## ciccarel

I am at a loss of what to do.  I have had planed to buy the L700 after hearing some of the great reviews.  I found a great deal on a SR-507 and is the best thing I have ever heard.  Great detail, good sub bass and quite comfortable.  This is my first Stax experience.  I am hooked.  My plan was to move the 507 to my second system and find a L700.  I have read everything I can find comparing the the L700 to the 507.  Is the L700 better then the 507?  If yes, how much?  

I guess my options are find another 507,  find a good deal on L700, or save a little more for a 007.  

Any thoughts,  John


----------



## tumpux

Just get the 007..


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Or not. 007 is such a different beast from the usual "hig-mids energy and presence" Lambdas show (especially 507) he could probably dislike them (or not).

Ali


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## ciccarel

Ali-Pacha said:


> Or not. 007 is such a different beast from the usual "hig-mids energy and presence" Lambdas show (especially 507) he could probably dislike them (or not).
> 
> Ali


Thanks for the input. I ended up buying another SR-507. I guess I'm done buying for now. In the last 6 months I bought TH900, LCD-X, DT1990 Pro, HD58X, ..., and now another Stax SR-507. I like them all for different music and moods. I think in the future I will end up with the SR-007 or some vintage.  I wish it was easier to audition Stax without traveling.


----------



## Quixote79

ciccarel said:


> I am at a loss of what to do.  I have had planed to buy the L700 after hearing some of the great reviews.  I found a great deal on a SR-507 and is the best thing I have ever heard.  Great detail, good sub bass and quite comfortable.  This is my first Stax experience.  I am hooked.  My plan was to move the 507 to my second system and find a L700.  I have read everything I can find comparing the the L700 to the 507.  Is the L700 better then the 507?  If yes, how much?
> 
> I guess my options are find another 507,  find a good deal on L700, or save a little more for a 007.
> 
> Any thoughts,  John



you is heering the same as spitzen at other place almost best lambda ever


> As for the 507, I like them more and more which for me is the true mark of something great. Feed them a complex bass line and they do show their limitation but the lack of the "Lambda boom" is a very welcome thing. The midrange is more forward then a Omega but it is very similar to the HE60, with no etch or shouting. I've moved on to the SRM-1 Mk2 running balanced off the APL and it still sounds just lovely. I'm just letting Foobar run on random to try pretty much anything I can throw at them. I'm not quite ready to declare this the best ever Lambda but it is bloody close...


----------



## Grant99

Are the requirements for the amp to drive the SR-L700 about the same as the other Lambdas?  I currently use the SR-404 & the amp I have drives them quite nicely, they sound quite good, but I've heard that L700s are another step up.  But I am bit concerned that maybe my amp won't drive them sufficiently, like the SR-007 MK.2s that I have.  Any experience on this or comments ?

thanks, Grant


----------



## JimL11

Grant99 said:


> Are the requirements for the amp to drive the SR-L700 about the same as the other Lambdas?  I currently use the SR-404 & the amp I have drives them quite nicely, they sound quite good, but I've heard that L700s are another step up.  But I am bit concerned that maybe my amp won't drive them sufficiently, like the SR-007 MK.2s that I have.  Any experience on this or comments ?
> 
> thanks, Grant



General consensus is that any of the Lambda phones need about the same drive requirements. I might help if you were more specific about which amp you are using.


----------



## esl63

Hi!

I had an old Srm-T1 lying around.
It sounded ok on my Stax 407 Pro headphones but I thought that maybe some recapping and adjustments was needed.
Originally there was 4*100uF Caps in the power supply. I changed to 4*680uF and it was a nice upgrade.
Then I found that changing the anode resistors (66kOhm) to a CCS was a good thing and here is the schematic found here on muffinhead post: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



It works well on low current 1mA, but It went into oscillation above 4mA. Any ideas how to make it more stable?
The top current regulator mosfet is 10M90S. Now i´m driving it on 3mA and it sounds really good. But i want to drive 4.9mA, and without oscillation....


----------



## JimL11

esl63 said:


> Hi!
> 
> I had an old Srm-T1 lying around.
> It sounded ok on my Stax 407 Pro headphones but I thought that maybe some recapping and adjustments was needed.
> ...



There are a couple things you could do. First, the lead length between the gate resistor and the MOSFETs must be as short as possible, so that the resistor body should be very close to the body of the MOSFET. I hardwired my CCS and the wire distance between the MOSFET body and the resistor body was less than 1 cm IIRC.

Second, you could increase the value of the DN2540 resistor to, say 1 kilohm. 

Alternatively, you could ask Kevin Gilmore to send you a copy of his board file so you could order a circuit board and build it on that. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## esl63

Fixed! Thanks Jim L11!
I put a decoupling cap on the positive terminal of 10M90s and made the wires shorter.
Maybe adding a 150H Hammond choke in series after each CCS could give both a larger "swing" and better s/n in the higher frequencies?
Maybe 2*150H  getting 300H and get rid of the CCS is more puristic... but I am attracted by the combo of CCS and choke...


----------



## JimL11 (Jan 29, 2019)

Glad to hear it, although I'm not sure about the decoupling cap, as that makes a low impedance bypass at high frequencies, and the whole idea of a CCS is to have a very HIGH impedance throughout the entire audio frequency spectrum. I would try it without the decoupling cap.

I don't think you've thought through the choke idea. The CCS has a DC impedance of at least 170 megohms according to my measurements, which should extend to most audio frequencies. so a choke won't make much difference. Also, interposing an additional resistance (from the wire in the choke) cannot increase the swing, it can only decrease it.

Every study shows that most of the power in music is in the bass and low midrange, hence the most voltage swing is also in that range. The problem with a choke on its own is that its impedance is lowest at low frequencies, whereas an electrostatic headphone, to the degree it resembles a capacitor, has its highest impedance in the same range. This means that most of the current and power produced by the output device gets burned up in the output resistor or choke instead of going to the headphone, which is the whole point of the exercise. The big advantage of using a CCS is that the output device does not burn up any power in the loading device. This means that substituting a CCS for a resistor or choke more than doubles the effective power of the output device while simultaneously decreasing its distortion.

In sum, adding a choke in series with the CCS will not increase the swing, is no better than the CCS on its own (remember you can never subtract noise by adding another component), and a choke by itself wastes as much or more power than a resistor in the music power range, as well as having its own problems, including resonances, stray capacitances, etc. So basically, not a good idea, in addition to costing a bunch of money.


----------



## Grant99

JimL11 said:


> General consensus is that any of the Lambda phones need about the same drive requirements. I might help if you were more specific about which amp you are using.


  That's what I was hoping to hear.  I have both Stax 006t and a McAlister Audio EA-8.  The McAlister amp really makes the SR-404s come alive, they sound much better with it.  But it doesn't drive the SR-007 Mk2s that I have.  So I'm pondering getting an SR-L700...and wondering if my amp will drive it OK.  

thanks,
Grant


----------



## esl63

The CCS amplifikation is quite high and the bandwith also. I have not calculated on the poles so I don´t  know the phase margin. When i got time I want to do a spice simulation. Anyway the decoupling worked well.

Reagarding the 150H choke. A choke supply will generate an opposite current and voltage, that in turn will feed the headphone. Giving 3dB higher voltage swing or 6dB more power than just a CCS. The voltage out can actually swing higher and lower than the power supply.... Thats way the headroom gets bigger. And as I said the secon adwantage is that at high frequencies where the impedance of the CCS is increasing, thats where the choke comes in... at 10kHz the 150 H choke will have an impedance of 10Meg ohm.


----------



## Windseeker (Jan 30, 2019)

Hiya fellow STAX afficionados, here's a quick (mostly positive) note about a recent repair job on my earspeakers.

After nearly 7 years of heavy usage, my SR-009's cable finally gave up & started to have intermittent sound problem on one channel.  As I was simply too emotionally attached to it, I opted to send the cans to STAX HQ for repair.

The correspondence process was very courteous and efficient.  Repair fee (including initial check-up, cleaning, post-repair burn-in & check-up) was around USD 133 (after currency conversion) + cost for replacement parts (which of course varies). Whether that's reasonable would be a subjective opinion, but I felt it's rather fair.

I guess the repair duration would depend on what exactly is broken.  All in all, my earspeakers stayed at STAX HQ for 12 days (of course, getting the product to STAX HQ takes additional efforts, time & shipping costs etc., but that's another matter).

At last, the eaqrspeakers are back home & I'm a happy STAX listener once again.  There's no doubt that my cans have aged somewhat, but here's hoping that there's some more enjoyable life left in them...


----------



## JimL11

esl63 said:


> The CCS amplifikation is quite high and the bandwith also. I have not calculated on the poles so I don´t  know the phase margin. When i got time I want to do a spice simulation. Anyway the decoupling worked well.
> 
> Reagarding the 150H choke. A choke supply will generate an opposite current and voltage, that in turn will feed the headphone. Giving 3dB higher voltage swing or 6dB more power than just a CCS. The voltage out can actually swing higher and lower than the power supply.... Thats way the headroom gets bigger. And as I said the secon adwantage is that at high frequencies where the impedance of the CCS is increasing, thats where the choke comes in... at 10kHz the 150 H choke will have an impedance of 10Meg ohm.



Um, no. A choke by itself can have the voltage swing higher and lower than the power supply voltage, but if you put a choke in series with a CCS, the CCS forces the choke to have a constant current through it, so there is absolutely no voltage variation across the choke whatsoever. The whole idea of the CCS is that it forces the current through it to be constant regardless of the voltage across it. When you use a CCS as the load for an output device, that means that any voltage variation pushes all of the current variation through the transducer. 

Second, the CCS impedance does decrease somewhat at the highest frequencies, but since it is likely over 100 megohm anyway, the extra 10 megohm doesn't make that much difference (and remember that is assuming a perfect choke, real chokes generally have leakage capacitances that will drop that value significantly).

Choke loading can be useful on its own, and actually I use chokes in my power supplies all the time. It's just not particularly helpful in conjunction with a CCS - the CCS just turns it into a very expensive resistor. Another way to think of a CCS which may be useful is to look at it as an extremely high value resistor. If you have a bazillion ohm resistor in series with a choke, the choke really doesn't make any difference - it's the resistor that determines the behavior of the combination.


----------



## makan (Jan 30, 2019)

Edited


----------



## BoogieWoogie

I'm looking for a cost effective way to power my 007, what stax amps are recommended besides the expensive kgss's  ?


----------



## JimL11

BoogieWoogie said:


> I'm looking for a cost effective way to power my 007, what stax amps are recommended besides the expensive kgss's  ?



Depends, If you are not opposed to buying used, a used Stax SRM-717 or SRM-727 with global feedback mod, or a used SRM-323 if you're really hard up. If you are willing to do a little DIY or have it done for you, an SRM-T1 or T1S  with constant current load mod will do the job and is IMHO somewhat more refined sounding than the solid state amps.

If you're willing to do quite a bit of DIY an SRX-Plus (tube) or KG amp can be done for significantly less money than a built amp.


----------



## BoogieWoogie

All those have the same power ?


----------



## JimL11

Pretty close to the same power. Note that the T1 (or any other Stax tube output amps) use plate resistor loads in stock form, so without the constant current load mod they have less power. With the constant current load mod, the T1 has a bit less voltage output, but it's only about 0.7 dB less, which is negligible. Any of them will put out 110 dB at 1 kHz max output, which on a continuous basis is enough to cause permanent hearing loss within a few minutes. The KG amps with +/-400V power supplies will put out another dB or so, and the DIY T2 with +/-500V power supplies will put out another 3 dB.


----------



## tigon_ridge

JimL11 said:


> Pretty close to the same power. Note that the T1 (or any other Stax tube output amps) use plate resistor loads in stock form, so without the constant current load mod they have less power. With the constant current load mod, the T1 has a bit less voltage output, but it's only about 0.7 dB less, which is negligible. Any of them will put out 110 dB at 1 kHz max output, which on a continuous basis is enough to cause permanent hearing loss within a few minutes. The KG amps with +/-400V power supplies will put out another dB or so, and the DIY T2 with +/-500V power supplies will put out another 3 dB.



So in terms of max sustained output, the KG amps don't have much on the Stax amps, but what about max transient outputs? Can upgrading caps alone help in this regard?


----------



## JimL11 (Feb 3, 2019)

tigon_ridge said:


> So in terms of max sustained output, the KG amps don't have much on the Stax amps, but what about max transient outputs? Can upgrading caps alone help in this regard?



Are you referring to high frequency transients or are you referring to higher voltage on a transient basis. In terms of the former, the ability to deliver an undistorted high frequency transient at a high voltage is dependent on an adequate slew rate. That said, most studies of the slew rate of musical signals suggest that the ability to deliver an undistorted sine wave at 6 kHz is sufficient to reproduce almost any musical signal, although the late Peter Baxandall reported that he found one musical excerpt that required enough slew rate to reproduce a full power 15 kHz sine wave.

Since electrostatic headphones resemble capacitors, this means that amps with a higher current output stage have the potential to have a higher slew rate, because the  equation describing current required into a capacitor load is:

current (mA) = 2000*pi*voltage*frequency*capacitance (in farads).

So, for example, into a typical headphone resembling a 100 pf capacitor, 400VRMS at 20 kHz requires a max current of about 10 mA RMS, or about 14 mA peak. A T1S with constant current load mod can provide about 400VRMS but the output stage only runs about 9 mA, and some of that is needed to drive the feedback resistors, so only about 5.8 mA of the total output stage current is available to drive the headphones, which means it will go into hard slew limiting driving the headphones around 8 kHz, and it won't sound too good doing it as amps never sound their best when driven to their limits.

The Stax amps run between 9 and 14 mA/channel quiescent current output stages. The KGSS ran around 16 mA,/channel, the DIY T2 around 28 mA, the BHSE around 36 mA and the Carbon up to 40 mA/channel, so the KG amps definitely have higher slew rate. However, note that in most cases this potential is not needed because 1) most people don't listen at these high levels, and 2) most music has less slew rate requirements. In other words, most people will not approach the slew rate limitations of even the Stax amps.

The other option that you may be talking about is having a higher voltage limit for transients. A prime example of this is the original NAD3020 which was rated at 20 WPC continuous but had a "soft" power supply which allowed it to reproduce transients at a higher power, somewhere around 40 watts IIRC. However, this is because the power supply had a higher quiescent voltage which dropped under load to a lower voltage, and this occurred because the NAD was a class A/B amplifier, meaning it drew more current from its PS under continuous conditions (i.e. putting out a high power sine wave) than under music conditions.

However, all the Stax amps and the KG amps are class A, which means that they draw the same amount of power from the PS whether they are reproducing music or not. Moreover the KG amps also have regulated power supplies, so the voltage is further stabilized. So adding extra capacitance won't really change the transient power of either the Stax or KG amps. All of these amps are differential circuits, so current draw is pretty constant anyway (if the amplification devices were perfectly matched there should be NO current variation at all up to clipping).


----------



## tigon_ridge

JimL11 said:


> Are you referring to high frequency transients or are you referring to higher voltage on a transient basis. In terms of the former, the ability to deliver an undistorted high frequency transient at a high voltage is dependent on an adequate slew rate. That said, most studies of the slew rate of musical signals suggest that the ability to deliver an undistorted sine wave at 6 kHz is sufficient to reproduce almost any musical signal, although the late Peter Baxandall reported that he found one musical excerpt that required enough slew rate to reproduce a full power 15 kHz sine wave.
> 
> Since electrostatic headphones resemble capacitors, this means that amps with a higher current output stage have the potential to have a higher slew rate, because the  equation describing current required into a capacitor load is:
> 
> ...



Thank you. What I was really wondering is that if the KG amps only offer a mere 1 dB more power than the Stax amps, then what really distinguishes them from Stax amps besides the supply voltage regulation? I'm not inclined to think that voltage regulation and a mere 1 dB higher output potential alone can account for that big of a sonic improvement.

As a separate inquiry. If the srm-252s only offers 1.2 mA, would that mean that moving up to something like the srm-323s would add ~6 dB (x4) more max output, or is the calculation not so linear and straightforward?


----------



## JimL11 (Feb 4, 2019)

tigon_ridge said:


> Thank you. What I was really wondering is that if the KG amps only offer a mere 1 dB more power than the Stax amps, then what really distinguishes them from Stax amps besides the supply voltage regulation? I'm not inclined to think that voltage regulation and a mere 1 dB higher output potential alone can account for that big of a sonic improvement.
> 
> As a separate inquiry. If the srm-252s only offers 1.2 mA, would that mean that moving up to something like the srm-323s would add ~6 dB (x4) more max output, or is the calculation not so linear and straightforward?



Well, what I've written about are some of the most obvious technical differences. Spritzer, for example, says that the Stax biased the 717 lower making it less linear than the KGSS that it was reportedly based on. The BHSE, GG and Carbon use a different output stage (in tube terms, a grounded grid topology) which is a more linear method of driving the output devices, but requires a low impedance driver. Also, as the KG amps tend to have significantly more quiescent current available, they are running well within their current limits when the Stax amps are approaching their current limits. That could make a difference when listening at high levels. I can discuss circuit differences, but I can't tell you how much of a difference in sound it will make for you - you'll have to listen and judge for yourself.

The question is, do you really think that these basic specifications tell the whole story?

As far as regulated supplies, I have heard a good regulated supply significantly increase the soundstage and dynamics of a LTA MicroZOTL, but that is a different beast altogether. AFAIK, nobody has built a KG amp with passive PS and then added a regulated supply and compared them directly. OTOH most commercial amps including Stax have passive power supplies, not because they are better, but because they are much cheaper and take up much less space and less weight.

Also keep in mind that Stax and KG have two different objectives. KG does the best design he can regardless of cost. Stax designs amps to sell at a reasonable cost and to make a profit, so they have to judge cost-effectiveness and size (a larger and heavier amp incurs higher shipping cost). Also they have to consider profits for distributors, retailers, etc. in pricing their amps. Until the T8000 they had limited themselves to a certain size for their amps. For example, the KGST is essentially the same circuit as the Stax T1/006/007 series, but with more powerful output tubes, constant current output loads, and a regulated supply.

The Stax SRM-252 is listed as putting out 280VRMS at 1 kHz vs. the SRM-323 which is specified as putting out 400 VRMS at 1 kHz, which is a 3dB difference. The 252 is CURRENT limited in how much output it has, whereas the 323 is VOLTAGE limited in its output. However, if you compared the 252 to 323 side by side at say, 280 VRMS, the 323 should sound significantly better as the 252 would be at its limit whereas the 323 would be well within its limits.


----------



## Whitigir

At first, somebody need to start DIY a KG Amplifier first  and when he/she achieved this, he/she will know and understand from paper to personal experiences as of why (many things happens, technological and sound performances...etc..)

There are a huge different from theory VS real practices.  I admire @JimL11 for his ability to be patiently explaining all this


----------



## statfi

JimL11 said:


> Peter Baxandall reported that he found one musical excerpt that required enough slew rate to reproduce a full power 15 kHz sine wav


JimL11, Nice post!  Can you cite a reference for Baxandall's report?


----------



## soren_brix

Wireless World, Januar 1978, "Audio Power Amplifier Design", page 52


----------



## JimL11

The Wireless World has his earlier research (Nelson Pass also found similar data that he wrote about in an article about his A40 (?) class A power amp in The Audio Amateur. Baxandall wrote about the 15 kHz full power signal in a chapter he wrote about electrostatic loudspeakers for High Performance Loudspeakers, by Martin Collums, I think it was the 2nd or 3rd edition. I'm not at home this week so all this is from memory.


----------



## statfi

JimL11 said:


> ... High Performance Loudspeakers, by Martin Collums,..



Nice.  Thanks.  I haven't seen a copy of that in ages.  I'll look around for one.


----------



## edstrelow

I am having an odd problem with one of my 007 drivers. It developed an intermittent fault a few months ago so I  opened the earcup and checked all the soldered contacts. I ended up replacing the thin wires that connect from the cable (which was replaced about 2 years ago) to the driver and there appear to be no loose contacts now.  I can pull and twist the cables and the sound is fine.  Except for one oddity. When I hold the driver and rotate it in the vertical plane (i.e. the right side is turned up) some scratchiness and noise occurs at about the 90 degree part of the rotation.. I can't see any obvious fault with the driver or any sign that something has made its way past the dust cover.  Anyone ever had something like this?


----------



## tumpux

Just the first part, then I return the headphone to the seller. 
How old is it anyway?


----------



## BoogieWoogie

Is any one here using the gumby with a lambda and 007? I Would like to know if there is some senergy specially with the 007 since it can be a bit too smooth and a brighter dac may go better.


----------



## soren_brix

edstrelow said:


> I am having an odd problem with one of my 007 drivers. It developed an intermittent fault a few months ago so I  opened the earcup and checked all the soldered contacts. I ended up replacing the thin wires that connect from the cable (which was replaced about 2 years ago) to the driver and there appear to be no loose contacts now.  I can pull and twist the cables and the sound is fine.  Except for one oddity. When I hold the driver and rotate it in the vertical plane (i.e. the right side is turned up) some scratchiness and noise occurs at about the 90 degree part of the rotation.. I can't see any obvious fault with the driver or any sign that something has made its way past the dust cover.  Anyone ever had something like this?



Indeed it sounds like a bad connection of some sort.
In my experience a faulty cable can be tricky.
The cable may be broken somewhere other than at the actual inlet. It may have broken further down the cable.
Try to fixate the driver and move the cable by holding it at the splitter rather, and see if you can provoke the issue.


----------



## chococya96

Hey guys, just an update regarding to hum noise in my SRS-3100 set, the local STAX distributor got back to me and told me that there's nothing wrong with my STAX set as they weren't able to identify the humming noise. They have tried different sources and listened via different staff members yet, they were not able to hear humming noise on the left channel. 

Ultimate, they told me that the problem might be due to "leaky outlet", saying that there might be a problem with the outlet's grounding. I don't even know what this means but, they told me to get a electrician to get our apartment's outlets checked out for leaky wiring. 
I told them that I've tried different outlets in my apartment though, they said since the grounding is centralized in my apartment, there's no point in trying different outlet in my apartment. 

What they've suggested me is to try my STAX set somewhere else, anywhere BUT at my apartment. They said that If the issue is not present at different location, then there's something wrong with my apartment's outlets. Calling electrician to check our wrings is the only option according to them.  
Also, they've persisted that the humming shouldn't be heard when the driver unit is turned off. FYI, I've mentioned that the humming noise is present even when I turned off the driver unit (i.e. turn the knob all the way down until it "clicks" and the led is off). The only way to get rid of the noise is by unplugging the AC adapter.  

As a result, they're sending the unit back to me. I told them that I did not have this humming issue in my alternate setup with dynamic headphones and same source (i.e. same DAC used) and they said it's "like comparing with apples and oranges". Since STAX uses electrostatic, the problem it's having will be different to dynamic headphones and its amp. 

What should I do at this stage? I'm not able test my STAX set at work and I do not have any of friends live close to me as I've just moved to different state. 

Bloody hell, this is getting frustrating.


----------



## raband

kanade96 said:


> What should I do at this stage?



Try the unit at another location like they suggested?


----------



## chococya96

raband said:


> Try the unit at another location like they suggested?



But where though? Like I've said, I can't test this at my work or go to friend's place since I've just moved. 
Do I just go to a local library or uni to test it?


----------



## raband

kanade96 said:


> But where though?



Where abouts in Oz are you?

Library sounds like a decent idea, or a coffee shop, maccas or even a local headphone shop if any near may be happy to let you have a try of some of their DACs with the unit.

Once you sort out if it is the power in the apartment, you could look at a powerboard with filtering (someone else would need to confirm if that should fix the issue)


----------



## chococya96

raband said:


> Where abouts in Oz are you?
> 
> Library sounds like a decent idea, or a coffee shop, maccas or even a local headphone shop if any near may be happy to let you have a try of some of their DACs with the unit.
> 
> Once you sort out if it is the power in the apartment, you could look at a powerboard with filtering (someone else would need to confirm if that should fix the issue)



Sydney. 

I'll go to any of those places and see how it goes... Though, it might be hard to test it in loud environment as the humming noise is very subtle. 

The thing is, I use a UPS for my audio setup. I forgot to mention this but, I also tried using a surge board with filtering (Belkin) before and the humming noise was still present.


----------



## bcoryh

I am a long-time lurker and wanted to thank everyone for the invaluable info and input on this thread. 

The estat bug has bit and I have moved from dynamics to Stax. Presently, I am experimenting with a BHSE and Carbon CC (Spritzer) along with the 007MK2 (current, non-modded) and 009S (using a Chord Qutest and Nordost Heimdall II cables and power cords). Every combination has its benefits and it will hard to go wrong. I'll have some difficult decisions to make, but certainly a good problem to have. 

Today, the FedEx man is delivering some highly-touted NOS tubes, so that should add another twist. 

I welcome any thoughts or feedback.

Thanks, again, for all the great support. 

Cory


----------



## plinth

bcoryh said:


> I am a long-time lurker and wanted to thank everyone for the invaluable info and input on this thread.
> 
> The estat bug has bit and I have moved from dynamics to Stax. Presently, I am experimenting with a BHSE and Carbon CC (Spritzer) along with the 007MK2 (current, non-modded) and 009S (using a Chord Qutest and Nordost Heimdall II cables and power cords). Every combination has its benefits and it will hard to go wrong. I'll have some difficult decisions to make, but certainly a good problem to have.
> 
> ...


Glad that you are here, Cory. I went through similar equipment when I started on my electrostatic adventure. I ended up with Spritzer’s carbons, actually two of them, the 007mk2, chord Hugo2, chord Qutest, Chord TT2, Chord M Scaler. I could not detect any difference in cables but adding the MScaler to the Qutest was a huge improvement. The biggest I ever made. I would be surprised if any tube rolling on the BHSE gives you the heft on the bass transients as the Carbons give. I could not get into the 009S, sounded like great hiring whereas the 007 sound like great music.


----------



## VandyMan (Feb 9, 2019)

kanade96 said:


> What should I do at this stage? I'm not able test my STAX set at work and I do not have any of friends live close to me as I've just moved to different state.



Get a cheater plug (a couple bucks at Home Depot or Amazon) and see if lifting the ground solves the problem. If it does, you have a ground loop. If so, go out and buy a ground loop isolator, an isolation transformer, or a power conditioner that has an isolation transformer built-in. They are not expensive, although you can spend a lot on audiophile versions, if you so choose.


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## bcoryh (Feb 7, 2019)

plinth said:


> Glad that you are here, Cory. I went through similar equipment when I started on my electrostatic adventure. I ended up with Spritzer’s carbons, actually two of them, the 007mk2, chord Hugo2, chord Qutest, Chord TT2, Chord M Scaler. I could not detect any difference in cables but adding the MScaler to the Qutest was a huge improvement. The biggest I ever made. I would be surprised if any tube rolling on the BHSE gives you the heft on the bass transients as the Carbons give. I could not get into the 009S, sounded like great hiring whereas the 007 sound like great music.



Thank you for the friendly welcome. The Carbon CC definitely is impressive, as is the BHSE. They are similar in some ways, and different in others, but both excellent. I am leaning towards the BHSE but the Carbon CC is right there. (Admittedly, my romantic notion of glowing tubes might be factoring in.) On the other hand, the 007MK2 and 009S have me going back and forth. I do not hear them as similar and what I really want is a combination of the 009S detail, dynamics, and midrange, along with the more relaxed and forgiving ease of the 007MK2. While keeping both could be an option, I am trying to show some semblance of responsibility. Maybe too late for that.

The new tubes are warming up....


----------



## PointyFox

bcoryh said:


> Thank you for the friendly welcome. The Carbon CC definitely is impressive, as is the BHSE. They are similar in some ways, and different in others, but both excellent. I am leaning towards the BHSE but the Carbon CC is right there. (Admittedly, my romantic notion of a glowing tubes might be factoring in.) On the other hand, the 007MK2 and 009S have me going back and forth. I do not hear them as similar and what I really want is a combination of the 009S detail, dynamics, and midrange, along with the more relaxed and forgiving ease of the 007MK2. While keeping both could be an option, I am trying to show some semblance of responsibility. Maybe too late for that.
> 
> The new tubes are warming up....



Try the Spritzer BluTack mod?


----------



## bcoryh

PointyFox said:


> Try the Spritzer BluTack mod?


Thanks. I have not tried the mod, yet, but if I keep the 007MK2s, I plan on giving it a try.


----------



## buzzlulu

Ok, based on the previous few parts, is a perfect time to bring up an oldie but goodie

Difference between a Spritzer Carbon and CC version?
When I purchased mine I took Birgir's advice and went with a regular Carbon.
The problem is that I am so happy with it I keep on wondering if the CC version will bring more.
Headphones are the 009S


----------



## SeaWo|f

CC has:

Full size chassis
upgrade powersupply
RK50
silver signal wire
fully shielded transformer 

There might be some other things too, if i am not mistaken this is an ongoing project so everything is subject to change and new more refined versions continue to be developed.


----------



## Mheat122134 (Feb 7, 2019)

Is this fixable? The volume control seems stuck, won’t move at all.


----------



## bcoryh

buzzlulu said:


> Ok, based on the previous few parts, is a perfect time to bring up an oldie but goodie
> 
> Difference between a Spritzer Carbon and CC version?
> When I purchased mine I took Birgir's advice and went with a regular Carbon.
> ...


I was in the same boat when recently considering the Carbon v Carbon CC. Birgir described them to me as follows: "The CC will be a bit more refined, more space around the notes etc. but the difference isn’t huge." Ultimately, I chose the CC on the chance that it might sound better, but also to appease any wondering of "what if."


----------



## buzzlulu (Feb 7, 2019)

Yes he also said to me the difference was not huge.   It was more along the line of "people want an ALPS pot, people want silver writing etc." so I am making it for them.  He said he didn't feel the increased cost was worth it.

That does not necessarily mean it doesn't sound better - simply not worth the extra cost


----------



## kevin gilmore

Mheat122134 said:


> Is this fixable? The volume control seems stuck, won’t move at all.



That is certainly not the original pot. Need picture of the insides, but you will need to replace the pot if it won't turn.


----------



## 336881

Stax dma x2 for sale at hifido.jp. Probably around $10k shipped.


----------



## bcoryh

Listening to St. Vincent MassEducation via Roon/Quboz (US beta) through the BHSE / 007MK2 / Qutest. Sublime.


----------



## Rushton

bcoryh said:


> I am a long-time lurker and wanted to thank everyone for the invaluable info and input on this thread.
> 
> The estat bug has bit and I have moved from dynamics to Stax. Presently, I am experimenting with a BHSE and Carbon CC (Spritzer) along with the 007MK2 (current, non-modded) and 009S (using a Chord Qutest and Nordost Heimdall II cables and power cords). Every combination has its benefits and it will hard to go wrong. I'll have some difficult decisions to make, but certainly a good problem to have.
> 
> ...


Welcome, Cory. I'm also largely a long-time lurker here and recently made the commitment to the BHSE and two pairs of 009S "ear speakers" (one for me, one for my wife and listening partner). We couldn't be happier with this combination given our listening priorities and the kinds of music we listen to - mostly acoustic and classical.

Now that we have over 1,000 hours on the headphones and amplifier, we're ready to consider some further refinements with interconnect cables, AC conditioning and tubes. I'll be interested in your assessment of the new tubes you've received and what differences in sound you hear with them.


----------



## Rossliew

bcoryh said:


> Listening to St. Vincent MassEducation via Roon/Quboz (US beta) through the BHSE / 007MK2 / Qutest. Sublime.



You didn't get a similar listening experience with the Carbon CC?


----------



## Mheat122134

kevin gilmore said:


> That is certainly not the original pot. Need picture of the insides, but you will need to replace the pot if it won't turn.



Thanks, that’s probably what I’ll do then. Do you know where I could possibly find a replacement of this nature?


----------



## SoundInTheSea

SRM-007tA stax amp can drive SR-009S headphone? Anybody has experience?


----------



## Whitigir

SoundInTheSea said:


> SRM-007tA stax amp can drive SR-009S headphone? Anybody has experience?



Can drive and can drive *properly are 2 distinctively different situations .  The more appropriate question would be “how deep is your pocket ?”

One thing for sure is that we don’t have a crowded BS-marketing on our Electro-stat technology yet, so regardless of what you will be spending, you will have a huge price/performance ratio gain.

Beware though, we have some Chi-Fi that may pull the “it is expensive because it sound good” soon


----------



## SoundInTheSea

Can it drive SR-009S properly? SRM-T8000 is too much for me.



Whitigir said:


> Can drive and can drive *properly are 2 distinctively different situations .  The more appropriate question would be “how deep is your pocket ?”
> 
> One thing for sure is that we don’t have a crowded BS-marketing on our Electro-stat technology yet, so regardless of what you will be spending, you will have a huge price/performance ratio gain.
> 
> Beware though, we have some Chi-Fi that may pull the “it is expensive because it sound good” soon


----------



## bcoryh

Rossliew said:


> You didn't get a similar listening experience with the Carbon CC?


Indeed, I did have a similar experience with the Carbon CC. It's a wonderful recording.


----------



## JimL11 (Feb 9, 2019)

SoundInTheSea said:


> SRM-007tA stax amp can drive SR-009S headphone? Anybody has experience?



There actually is a decent short review of the SRM-007A on InnerFidelity driving the 009. Bottom line, sounds decent at moderate levels but loses it at higher levels. If you are willing to do some DIY there is a relatively inexpensive fix, which consists of replacing the output plate resistors with a constant current load. Same fix applies to the T1/006 series, which is less expensive to begin with. It does void your warranty, though.


----------



## bcoryh

Rushton said:


> Welcome, Cory. I'm also largely a long-time lurker here and recently made the commitment to the BHSE and two pairs of 009S "ear speakers" (one for me, one for my wife and listening partner). We couldn't be happier with this combination given our listening priorities and the kinds of music we listen to - mostly acoustic and classical.
> 
> Now that we have over 1,000 hours on the headphones and amplifier, we're ready to consider some further refinements with interconnect cables, AC conditioning and tubes. I'll be interested in your assessment of the new tubes you've received and what differences in sound you hear with them.


A dual Stax family - it's great that you can enjoy it together. My wife was interested enough to say, "Oh, that sounds good," and then never return.  

There is so much good information on these threads, some suggesting that the BHSE is not as responsive to different tubes, cables, etc., and others suggesting the opposite. Part of the enjoyment is experimenting for ourselves. Speaking of which, my new quad matched NOS Holland Philips Miniwatt EL34 / 6CA7 Metal Base tubes are firing up as I write....


----------



## Rushton

bcoryh said:


> A dual Stax family - it's great that you can enjoy it together. My wife was interested enough to say, "Oh, that sounds good," and then never return.
> 
> There is so much good information on these threads, some suggesting that the BHSE is not as responsive to different tubes, cables, etc., and others suggesting the opposite. Part of the enjoyment is experimenting for ourselves. Speaking of which, my new quad matched NOS Holland Philips Miniwatt EL34 / 6CA7 Metal Base tubes are firing up as I write....


My wife and I have been listening partners for over 45 years now. Great to have a fellow music lover in the listening room. When we started to downsize and sold our primary system, we decided that we'd switch to headphones instead of floor standing speakers. Of course, this meant getting two pairs!

I think I've probably read all the divergent comments about tubes with the BHSE. And I've seen the recommendation to go with these rarified NOS tubes you've selected. I'll be interested in your comments about the difference you're hearing once the tubes have a hundred hours or so on them. (I've always listened with tube gear of one stripe or another. The BHSE is the next generation in a long-ish line of predecessors.)


----------



## SoundInTheSea

Appreciate your answer. Do you have a link for the DIY fix?



JimL11 said:


> There actually is a decent short review of the SRM-007A on InnerFidelity driving the 009. Bottom line, sounds decent at moderate levels but loses it at higher levels. If you are willing to do some DIY there is a relatively inexpensive fix, which consists of replacing the output plate resistors with a constant current load. Same fix applies to the T1/006 series, which is less expensive to begin with. It does void your warranty, though.


----------



## SoundInTheSea

Hey Stax users,
I am almost to pull trigger for SRM-007tA + SR-L700 combo.
Do you guys have a particular power transformer (120v to 100v) to recommend for SRM-007tA amp? Is it a good idea to use a regular transformer that I can find in a local hardware store? What wattage transformer I should use?


----------



## JimL11

SoundInTheSea said:


> Appreciate your answer. Do you have a link for the DIY fix?



Not a link per se. There is an article in AudioXpress July 2017 on modifying the SRM-T1, which is basically the same circuit as the 007 but with two 6CG7 tubes instead of four. You would have to adapt the constant current mod to put out a higher current, e.g. about 7.5 mA instead of 4.9 mA, so it's not exactly plug and play. If you got a T1 instead (which would cost less) you could do the mod pretty much directly from the article. There is also a discussion on this thread in Jan/Feb of 2018 about the mod. It's less than $100 in parts, which includes replacing the electrolytic caps in the T1. You have to rebias the amp afterwards, and it's a bit easier procedure with the T1 as there are less pots that need adjusting.


----------



## edstrelow (Feb 9, 2019)

soren_brix said:


> Indeed it sounds like a bad connection of some sort.
> In my experience a faulty cable can be tricky.
> The cable may be broken somewhere other than at the actual inlet. It may have broken further down the cable.
> Try to fixate the driver and move the cable by holding it at the splitter rather, and see if you can provoke the issue.



Indeed you are correct, my friend. I finally determined that the fault is a broken wire  either in the strain relief section of the cable or further down in the cable itself.   This was the same problem that caused me to buy the previous replacement cord 2 years ago. I bought the phones themselves shortly after the 007A came out so the previous cable must have been 10 plus years old.   I don't especially abuse my phones,  these ones sit next to my bed and  get little pulling, tugging etc.  Maybe Stax cables use especially soft copper.  

At any rate I think I am going to have to buy another cable.  What a pain in the A.


----------



## Lv100Pidgeot

I tried doing a search and didn't come up with much. Does anyone know of any speakers that have stax-like detail, speed and transients? Right now I'm using a pair of Kef LS50s and they're damn good, but still not quite there. Should I be looking into Martin Logan? Magnepan? Any tips to the right direction to go would be much appreciated!


----------



## Whitigir

edstrelow said:


> Indeed you are correct, my friend. I finally determined that the fault is a broken wire  either in the strain relief section of the cable or further down in the cable itself.   This was the same problem that caused me to buy the previous replacement cord 2 years ago. I bought the phones themselves shortly after the 007A came out so the previous cable must have been 10 plus years old.   I don't especially abuse my phones,  these ones sit next to my bed and  get little pulling, tugging etc.  Maybe Stax cables use especially soft copper.
> 
> At any rate I think I am going to have to buy another cable.  What a pain in the A.



Stax Cables is ribbon style, and so it is flat.  You just need to hang it up when not in use, otherwise it kept on getting bent repeatedly will cause damages


----------



## soren_brix

edstrelow said:


> Indeed you are correct, my friend. I finally determined that the fault is a broken wire  either in the strain relief section of the cable or further down in the cable itself.   This was the same problem that caused me to buy the previous replacement cord 2 years ago. I bought the phones themselves shortly after the 007A came out so the previous cable must have been 10 plus years old.   I don't especially abuse my phones,  these ones sit next to my bed and  get little pulling, tugging etc.  Maybe Stax cables use especially soft copper.
> 
> At any rate I think I am going to have to buy another cable.  What a pain in the A.



If you have located the break point, you might shorten the cable as @bmichels did it his 009's


----------



## JimL11

Lv100Pidgeot said:


> I tried doing a search and didn't come up with much. Does anyone know of any speakers that have stax-like detail, speed and transients? Right now I'm using a pair of Kef LS50s and they're damn good, but still not quite there. Should I be looking into Martin Logan? Magnepan? Any tips to the right direction to go would be much appreciated!



Original Quad electrostatics would be my suggestion.


----------



## 336881

SoundInTheSea said:


> Hey Stax users,
> I am almost to pull trigger for SRM-007tA + SR-L700 combo.
> Do you guys have a particular power transformer (120v to 100v) to recommend for SRM-007tA amp? Is it a good idea to use a regular transformer that I can find in a local hardware store? What wattage transformer I should use?



Acupwr step down transformer. I kind of like mjolnir octave over anything stax amp for about the same monies though. Acupwr's lowest 300 watt transformer should be more than plenty. I think it is around $150.



Lv100Pidgeot said:


> I tried doing a search and didn't come up with much. Does anyone know of any speakers that have stax-like detail, speed and transients? Right now I'm using a pair of Kef LS50s and they're damn good, but still not quite there. Should I be looking into Martin Logan? Magnepan? Any tips to the right direction to go would be much appreciated!



There is not much out there that can keep up with e-stat in terms of detail, speed and transients. The closest you will find in Kef ls50s price bracket is honeycomb aluminum (Sony Apm-77w), bio cellulose (Sony Lavoce) and Beryllium (Yamaha ns1000). The Yamaha's are easy to find. The Sony's are not easy to find at all, but worth the search.


----------



## edstrelow

Whitigir said:


> Stax Cables is ribbon style, and so it is flat.  You just need to hang it up when not in use, otherwise it kept on getting bent repeatedly will cause damages


Actually I do hang mine up when not in use.   The last time I had this problem, I blamed the cleaning ladies, but who knows.


----------



## edstrelow

soren_brix said:


> If you have located the break point, you might shorten the cable as @bmichels did it his 009's


Thanks for the suggestion.  I may give this a try if I can't get a new cable or it breaks again.  The only tricky part seems to be cutting the strain relief part down the middle.


----------



## soren_brix

edstrelow said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.  I may give this a try if I can't get a new cable or it breaks again.  The only tricky part seems to be cutting the strain relief part down the middle.


which is easier than you might think ...


----------



## Dan Lee

Hello guys, I am new to Stax headphones.  I just picked up the ifi iESL pro to complete my ifi pro stack and got a pair of Stax SR-L700s which I am finding to be absolutely fantastic.  I honestly did not have high expectations for them, but upon first listen I knew that expectation was completely stupid and that I now understand why electros are held in such high esteem.  

I have been looking for an answer to a couple questions that maybe you all could help me answer.  1.  Do any of you or anyone you know prefer the L700 to the 009?  2.  Is it true that the 009 is more detailed then the 009S and if so what makes it worth going to the 009S over the 009?  I want the most detailed set up I can find.  I thought I had found it in the Utopia and while I still find that headphone fantastic the unbelievable clarity and lack of any distortion whatsoever on the SR-L700s is just incredible and makes me wonder if the 009 or 009S will provide that.

Any help here is much appreciated thanks guys.


----------



## Mach3

Dan Lee said:


> Hello guys, I am new to Stax headphones.  I just picked up the ifi iESL pro to complete my ifi pro stack and got a pair of Stax SR-L700s which I am finding to be absolutely fantastic.  I honestly did not have high expectations for them, but upon first listen I knew that expectation was completely stupid and that I now understand why electros are held in such high esteem.
> 
> I have been looking for an answer to a couple questions that maybe you all could help me answer.  1.  Do any of you or anyone you know prefer the L700 to the 009?  2.  Is it true that the 009 is more detailed then the 009S and if so what makes it worth going to the 009S over the 009?  I want the most detailed set up I can find.  I thought I had found it in the Utopia and while I still find that headphone fantastic the unbelievable clarity and lack of any distortion whatsoever on the SR-L700s is just incredible and makes me wonder if the 009 or 009S will provide that.
> 
> Any help here is much appreciated thanks guys.



If you're listening preference is details, than yes. The 009 are more detailed than the 009S.
If you prefer a warmer presentation, than either the L700 or 009S would suit your listening taster better. Between the L700 and the 009S, if money was no issue I would pick the 009S.


----------



## Dan Lee

Well that settles that.  I definitely want as much detail as I can possibly get.  Dont get me wrong I want the headphones to sound good to but from everything I have read that wont be an issue.  I will just have to keep my L700 and LCD-4s for when I want the smoother more laid back sounds.  

I appreciate the response.  I really cant believe how good electrostatics have proven to be where I find a $1475 pair of L700's to sound superior to two different $4000 headphones in the Utopias and LCD-4s.  Just blew my mind.


----------



## Whitigir

Dan Lee said:


> Well that settles that.  I definitely want as much detail as I can possibly get.  Dont get me wrong I want the headphones to sound good to but from everything I have read that wont be an issue.  I will just have to keep my L700 and LCD-4s for when I want the smoother more laid back sounds.
> 
> I appreciate the response.  I really cant believe how good electrostatics have proven to be where I find a $1475 pair of L700's to sound superior to two different $4000 headphones in the Utopias and LCD-4s.  Just blew my mind.




And u are driving it just out of IFI IESL.  Wait until KG top tier amps, like a GG or BHSE or T2


----------



## Dan Lee

Is there really that much of a noticeable difference with those amps?  What changes in the sound when you go with one of those?  I have noticed subtle changes in amps for dynamics and planars and much prefer the sound of a good solid state which is why I so far like the ifi the best.  But there are definitely tiers that I just dont have the funds to go to yet, and tell myself they must only be marginally better just to prevent me from taking out a second mortgage on my house to go after them.  I have heard nothing but good things about the bhse though.


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 11, 2019)

Dan Lee said:


> Is there really that much of a noticeable difference with those amps?  What changes in the sound when you go with one of those?  I have noticed subtle changes in amps for dynamics and planars and much prefer the sound of a good solid state which is why I so far like the ifi the best.  But there are definitely tiers that I just dont have the funds to go to yet, and tell myself they must only be marginally better just to prevent me from taking out a second mortgage on my house to go after them.  I have heard nothing but good things about the bhse though.



Dynamic amp is different as Dynamic headphones already have a driving mechanism build in, and that is the magnetic core.  Stax system is different, the driving mechanism is from the bias and the way the diagrams are charged up, which are all depending on the energizer.  In fact, I think energizer is what these are called, or driver unit.  That is why calling them an amplifier is causing too much confusing

For all that said, the Driver unit, is the heart, the core, and the soul of your ES-Speakers .  How big of a different is for you to personally judge.  The general consensus is that it could be as much as day and night Going from Stax driver unit into KG-T2


----------



## Dan Lee

Well damn there goes more of my money and here comes a more angry wife haha.  

I think I will probably just stick with the iesl for a while and get used to the sound of stats and down the road upgrade the amp.  But how signigicant would you say the jump is from the L700 to the 009?  Is it going to be a lot more detail or slightly more?  I have heard some say they prefer the sound of the L700 to the 009 but maybe detail is not as important to them.  What do you think?


----------



## Whitigir

Dan Lee said:


> Well damn there goes more of my money and here comes a more angry wife haha.
> 
> I think I will probably just stick with the iesl for a while and get used to the sound of stats and down the road upgrade the amp.  But how signigicant would you say the jump is from the L700 to the 009?  Is it going to be a lot more detail or slightly more?  I have heard some say they prefer the sound of the L700 to the 009 but maybe detail is not as important to them.  What do you think?



I have not heard L700, but 009 is a details Angel , in a sense that she is very detailed, and will sing to you with such angelic voices....unless you are driving her with a bad driving unit then she became a monster and spitting sibilants into your eardrums


----------



## Mach3

Dan Lee said:


> Well damn there goes more of my money and here comes a more angry wife haha.
> 
> I think I will probably just stick with the iesl for a while and get used to the sound of stats and down the road upgrade the amp.  But how signigicant would you say the jump is from the L700 to the 009?  Is it going to be a lot more detail or slightly more?  I have heard some say they prefer the sound of the L700 to the 009 but maybe detail is not as important to them.  What do you think?



My wife has zero knowledge on audio gear and even she manage to pick out the 009 vs 009S 10/10 time blind folded.
The detail difference of the L700 is much bigger margin than comparing the 009 vs 009S. I suggest you attend canjam like event or visit a audio shop that stocked them and you'll know what I mean.


----------



## PointyFox (Feb 11, 2019)

From what I've read there's not much difference between the SR007 and the SR009 besides the warmness of the sound. You might get more value going with a SR007A with the BluTack mod which I've read sounds closer to the SR009. It also sounds much better than stock. It's also cheaper and can be driven well by the SRM-D50. The whole setup costs half as much as my LCD-4 one and it beats it in everything except sub bass.


----------



## bcoryh

PointyFox said:


> From what I've read there's not much difference between the SR007 and the SR009 besides the warmness of the sound. You might get more value going with a SR007A with the BluTack mod which I've read sounds closer to the SR009. It also sounds much better than stock. It's also cheaper and can be driven well by the SRM-D50. The whole setup costs half as much as my LCD-4 one and it beats it in everything except sub bass.


I recently went though a similar evaluation, auditioning both the 007MK2 and 009S with my BHSE. (I did not have a chance to audition the 009.) Both are wonderful and have their merits. I ultimately chose the 007MK2 and I look forward to trying the BlueTack mod, once I get up the courage.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Just go for it. From a technical stand point the mod is super easy. The only part that his annoying is getting the pads back on, but that is just finicky not complex or delicate.


----------



## PointyFox

It's reversible too. I recommend something thin and plastic to jam some of the pad back in to get it started, about 2 cm around the rim.


----------



## bcoryh (Feb 11, 2019)

SeaWo|f said:


> Just go for it. From a technical stand point the mod is super easy. The only part that his annoying is getting the pads back on, but that is just finicky not complex or delicate.





PointyFox said:


> It's reversible too. I recommend something thin and plastic to jam some of the pad back in to get it started, about 2 cm around the rim.



Ok, screwdriver out, Blu Tack in hand. Fortune favors the bold. Here we go....

Well, son of a gun, the port mod helped. It just brought everything into focus. Not sure how, but I won't look a gift horse in the mouth. Thanks for the recommendation and encouragement.


----------



## Mach3

PointyFox said:


> From what I've read there's not much difference between the SR007 and the SR009 besides the warmness of the sound. You might get more value going with a SR007A with the BluTack mod which I've read sounds closer to the SR009. It also sounds much better than stock. It's also cheaper and can be driven well by the SRM-D50. The whole setup costs half as much as my LCD-4 one and it beats it in everything except sub bass.



I'm not sure where you read that from I'm got 2 SR-007 Mk1, One black and brown onw (earlier released 1998 Carbon box) They both sound slightly different let alone comparing it to the 009.
Also the 009 sound slightly different to the 009BK I have.


----------



## spacequeen7

Dan Lee said:


> Well damn there goes more of my money and here comes a more angry wife haha.
> 
> I think I will probably just stick with the iesl for a while and get used to the sound of stats and down the road upgrade the amp.  But how signigicant would you say the jump is from the L700 to the 009?  Is it going to be a lot more detail or slightly more?  I have heard some say they prefer the sound of the L700 to the 009 but maybe detail is not as important to them.  What do you think?



You set up have plenty  of power and it's sufficient to drive any HP or eSTAT's,the only reason I passed on iCan is tonality ,few mention iCAN having similar tonality no matter the source ,it's not IESL which is very natural with the pinch of dark 
I would suggest different amp ,you want at list 6v~10V per channel combined (amp/dac with pre-amp or amp alone  ) ,L700's should scale very nicely


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity (Feb 11, 2019)

Mach3 said:


> I'm not sure where you read that from I'm got 2 SR-007 Mk1, One black and brown onw (earlier released 1998 Carbon box) They both sound slightly different let alone comparing it to the 009.
> Also the 009 sound slightly different to the 009BK I have.


In PointyFox's case I believe he is talking about the 007A from 2015 onward. The so called "2.9". Which is brighter; more forward than previous 007s. Sits somewhere tonally between 009 and 007mk1 is the general consensus. Also noted to be more dynamic and less soft compared to the original mk1. Mafia claims the 2.9 is the best headphone STAX has ever made so take that how you will.


EDIT: Best with the pretty much essential port mod ***
Stock I think Mafia would prefer one of the Mk1 revisions.


----------



## Dan Lee

I appreciate all the input guys.  I wish I lived in an area where I could find a local shop to test these things out or where I lived close enough to be able to actually attend a canjam which I have wanted to do since I heard about the, but for me that would require a plane flight and a hotel stay which would cost a good bit of money that I could just put toward the headphones.  Florida is a weird place I have yet to meet a single person who didn't freak out when I told them I owned headphones in the $4k range and that was before they knew about the $5500 ifi pro stack.  These people think your out of your mind if you buy a $300 pair of beats or bose.  Granted I think they are crazy too cause those cans suck.  Anyone have any recommendations for where the best place to get a good deal on a new pair of 009's is?


----------



## Dan Lee

spacequeen7 said:


> You set up have plenty  of power and it's sufficient to drive any HP or eSTAT's,the only reason I passed on iCan is tonality ,few mention iCAN having similar tonality no matter the source ,it's not IESL which is very natural with the pinch of dark
> I would suggest different amp ,you want at list 6v~10V per channel combined (amp/dac with pre-amp or amp alone  ) ,L700's should scale very nicely


thanks man I appreciate the info.


----------



## PointyFox

My "2.9" version wasn't that great before the port mod. The bass wasn't really there and they sounded a lot like regular dynamic headphones. With the port mod though, way better, like better than my $7000 dynamic headphone setup.


----------



## SeaWo|f

^^ That is the first time i have seen a take like that on the 2.9

To my ears the 2.9 is a very good headphone stock, the normal qualities associated with stats. I found the port mod made the response more even from the lower mid range and down, but the bass was always there and in quantity.


----------



## PointyFox

I think my hearing isn't quite normal. I seem to be not as able to hear super low frequencies as well as other people. Either that or people exaggerate.


----------



## catscratch

PointyFox said:


> I think my hearing isn't quite normal. I seem to be not as able to hear super low frequencies as well as other people. Either that or people exaggerate.



Use a test tone generator to test how good your hearing is. There's quite a good one here. If you have any dead spots or imbalances in your hearing this will make them obvious. Just watch the volume as test tones can get loud.


----------



## PointyFox

catscratch said:


> Use a test tone generator to test how good your hearing is. There's quite a good one here. If you have any dead spots or imbalances in your hearing this will make them obvious. Just watch the volume as test tones can get loud.


No dead zones or anything like that. Once it reaches around 30 Hz, the volume drops off rapidly down to almost inaudible around 25 Hz, while other people claim to hear down to 10 Hz or so at normal listening levels.


----------



## oogabooga (Feb 12, 2019)

Does anyone have a picture of the voltage selector for an SRM-1/MK-2 (Version C, if it matters) from the back (i.e. so I can see the pins)?

At the moment I'm using a step down transformer from 120 V, but if it's just a matter of bridging two or four pins on the amp that'd be a lot easier.  and so that means mine is hard wired for 100V since nothing is bridged at the back.

(In case you're wondering, mine has just a black plastic cover over it normally.)

Thanks,
Sam


----------



## catscratch

PointyFox said:


> No dead zones or anything like that. Once it reaches around 30 Hz, the volume drops off rapidly down to almost inaudible around 25 Hz, while other people claim to hear down to 10 Hz or so at normal listening levels.



Sounds like perfectly normal hearing to me. 20-25 hz you feel more than you hear, and headphones aren't as good at moving lots of air, so it's reasonable for it to be nearly inaudible and not feel much of anything. Besides there's not much music that has meaningful content at 25hz aside from maybe a church organ or some synth bassline.


----------



## Mach3 (Feb 13, 2019)

oogabooga said:


> Does anyone have a picture of the voltage selector for an SRM-1/MK-2 (Version C, if it matters) from the back (i.e. so I can see the pins)?
> 
> At the moment I'm using a step down transformer from 120 V, but if it's just a matter of bridging two or four pins on the amp that'd be a lot easier.  and so that means mine is hard wired for 100V since nothing is bridged at the back.
> 
> ...


Hi Sam,

Your SRM-1 MK2 is currently set to 100V. What voltage are you wanting to set the amp to?


----------



## statfi

PointyFox said:


> No dead zones or anything like that. Once it reaches around 30 Hz, the volume drops off rapidly down to almost inaudible around 25 Hz, while other people claim to hear down to 10 Hz or so at normal listening levels.


How did you play the tones?  Through Stax?  Nothing else is likely to come close to reproducing the frequencies you are talking about.  E.g., from the suggested site, on my ThinkPad, all I hear for the "low frequencies" are harmonics: the ThinkPad cannot reproduce the fundamentals.


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

PointyFox said:


> No dead zones or anything like that. Once it reaches around 30 Hz, the volume drops off rapidly down to almost inaudible around 25 Hz, while other people claim to hear down to 10 Hz or so at normal listening levels.


I can't wait for my SR-007A to arrive (should be here anyday now). I should have had the Blutak by now but due to some sorta issue with the shipping service it got lost so I ordered more (after refund). I guess I could go to a crafts store or something but I'm far to lazy.


----------



## Pahani (Feb 13, 2019)

PointyFox said:


> No dead zones or anything like that. Once it reaches around 30 Hz, the volume drops off rapidly down to almost inaudible around 25 Hz, while other people claim to hear down to 10 Hz or so at normal listening levels.





catscratch said:


> Sounds like perfectly normal hearing to me. 20-25 hz you feel more than you hear, and headphones aren't as good at moving lots of air, so it's reasonable for it to be nearly inaudible and not feel much of anything. Besides there's not much music that has meaningful content at 25hz aside from maybe a church organ or some synth bassline.



Music, no. Not a whole lot. Movies HECK YES there's sub-20Hz content! My home subs are tuned to 13Hz, and reach adequately to maybe 10Hz or so. Those with truly badass equipment cherish movies that reach down to single digits.

You won't hear much ULF (Ultra Low Frequency) content from the likes of Streaming services, though. The actual physical disc is MUCH better in 100% of the cases I've tried on my system.

And no, of course you can't hear content below 20Hz. But you CAN feel it. In spades, with the right room (i.e. not on a concrete slab).

For an example of a song that does reach below 20Hz, look for Bass Mekanik "Suck My Bass" (Lo and Slo Remix). It was graphed on AVSForum, and reaches to 7Hz if I recall.

*edit* AVS thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-...mate-list-bass-movies-w-frequency-charts.html


----------



## axle_69

Another question about voltage of driver units.
Is there a problem in using driver units wired for continental Europe (230 VAC) in the UK (240 VAC) and vice-versa since they are well within 10%?
Lived in some main cities in Europe and measured 232-235 VAC and where I'm now in the UK measured 245 VAC.


----------



## jbrownson

Dan Lee said:


> Hello guys, I am new to Stax headphones.  I just picked up the ifi iESL pro to complete my ifi pro stack and got a pair of Stax SR-L700s which I am finding to be absolutely fantastic.  I honestly did not have high expectations for them, but upon first listen I knew that expectation was completely stupid and that I now understand why electros are held in such high esteem.
> 
> I have been looking for an answer to a couple questions that maybe you all could help me answer.  1.  Do any of you or anyone you know prefer the L700 to the 009?  2.  Is it true that the 009 is more detailed then the 009S and if so what makes it worth going to the 009S over the 009?  I want the most detailed set up I can find.  I thought I had found it in the Utopia and while I still find that headphone fantastic the unbelievable clarity and lack of any distortion whatsoever on the SR-L700s is just incredible and makes me wonder if the 009 or 009S will provide that.
> 
> Any help here is much appreciated thanks guys.



I listened to L700s on a Stax SR-353X for a long time and loved them. Then I went to RMAF and heard a Blue Hawaii SE, and couldn't pass up the chance to purchase it. I don't know anything about the iESL, but the 353 did not do the 700s justice. Awhile later I also picked up a pair of 009Ss. While there is no question the 009Ss are more detailed than the 700s, I found that the difference between the 353 and the BHSE was much greater. I'm very happy listening to the 700s on the BHSE. I also can't really compare the 009S to a 009 as I haven't spent much time with the 009.

I later moved on to a Carbon CC which is even a notch more transparent than the BHSE w/o all the hassle of the tubes.


----------



## Dan Lee

jbrownson said:


> I listened to L700s on a Stax SR-353X for a long time and loved them. Then I went to RMAF and heard a Blue Hawaii SE, and couldn't pass up the chance to purchase it. I don't know anything about the iESL, but the 353 did not do the 700s justice. Awhile later I also picked up a pair of 009Ss. While there is no question the 009Ss are more detailed than the 700s, I found that the difference between the 353 and the BHSE was much greater. I'm very happy listening to the 700s on the BHSE. I also can't really compare the 009S to a 009 as I haven't spent much time with the 009.
> 
> I later moved on to a Carbon CC which is even a notch more transparent than the BHSE w/o all the hassle of the tubes.


Thank you my friend this is exactly what I wanted to hear.  I really didnt want to mess with a tube amp for electros as the whole setup is already expensive enough plus I seem to enjoy a solid state sound more then tube for whatever reason.  I will be looking into the carbon cc.  I do enjoy the l700s a lot.  I actually enjoy them more then my Utopias and LCD-4s which I didnt think would be possible at this price point.  I will probably still end up with the 009s if not simply for the better build quality considering I feel I will break the L700s every time I pick them up.  Im surprised no one has made a better head band for these.


----------



## Mach3

Dan Lee said:


> Thank you my friend this is exactly what I wanted to hear.  I really didnt want to mess with a tube amp for electros as the whole setup is already expensive enough plus I seem to enjoy a solid state sound more then tube for whatever reason.  I will be looking into the carbon cc.  I do enjoy the l700s a lot.  I actually enjoy them more then my Utopias and LCD-4s which I didnt think would be possible at this price point.  I will probably still end up with the 009s if not simply for the better build quality considering I feel I will break the L700s every time I pick them up.  Im surprised no one has made a better head band for these.



You can actually get the SR-507 headband which fits the L700. The part the hold the earspeaker is made out of metal. Also I've seen some euro version of the L700 ship with the metal version.
Not sure why the rest is all plastic.


----------



## Dan Lee

Mach3 said:


> You can actually get the SR-507 headband which fits the L700. The part the hold the earspeaker is made out of metal. Also I've seen some euro version of the L700 ship with the metal version.
> Not sure why the rest is all plastic.


Man that is awesome info thank you for that.  I will definitely be getting that.


----------



## Mach3

Here what I was talking about.
https://www.hifi-berlin.com/sr-l700-pro.html#&gid=1&pid=1


----------



## SoundInTheSea

L700 has a "S" version? I know 009 has a new "S" version (009S), but haven't heard L700S. Do you have a link?
If my budget is limited, do you recommend to upgrade the driver first to Blue Hawaii instead of upgrading the headphone to 009S? (I own SR L700+SRM 007tA).
If you choose between Blue Hawaii and Carbon CC, which one is your choice? And would thank you if you can explain your rationale.



jbrownson said:


> I listened to L700s on a Stax SR-353X for a long time and loved them. Then I went to RMAF and heard a Blue Hawaii SE, and couldn't pass up the chance to purchase it. I don't know anything about the iESL, but the 353 did not do the 700s justice. Awhile later I also picked up a pair of 009Ss. While there is no question the 009Ss are more detailed than the 700s, I found that the difference between the 353 and the BHSE was much greater. I'm very happy listening to the 700s on the BHSE. I also can't really compare the 009S to a 009 as I haven't spent much time with the 009.
> 
> I later moved on to a Carbon CC which is even a notch more transparent than the BHSE w/o all the hassle of the tubes.


----------



## Dan Lee

Yeah that headband looks way more sturdy.  I looked around a little bit and seems like the metal headband is going to be a bit hard to find.


----------



## Mach3

You can buy the metal headband separately.


----------



## pegasus21 (Feb 14, 2019)

It seems like Electro Mod is revamping their site so you'll have to contact them directly. https://www.electromod.co.uk/products/stax-spares/

I'm not sure if you can purchase directly from Stax Japan. https://stax.theshop.jp/items/7561124

Also, one of my friends confirms that the German L700 actually uses the 507 headband rather than the L700 headband hence the metal part.


----------



## Mach3

https://www.electromod.co.uk/products/stax-spares/
Yep I got my SR-507 and SR-L700 from electromod.


----------



## jbrownson

SoundInTheSea said:


> L700 has a "S" version? I know 009 has a new "S" version (009S), but haven't heard L700S. Do you have a link?
> If my budget is limited, do you recommend to upgrade the driver first to Blue Hawaii instead of upgrading the headphone to 009S? (I own SR L700+SRM 007tA).
> If you choose between Blue Hawaii and Carbon CC, which one is your choice? And would thank you if you can explain your rationale.



No, sorry for the confusion, it's difficult to use the plural way of referencing headphones when they start shipping them w/ S at the end, I try to capitalize it when it's part of the name and lowercase when I'm using the plural. There isn't any 700S headphone from Stax, just a pair of 700s.


----------



## Nemeske88

Dear Forum, 
I’ve recently acquired a set of very old SR-Lambda (serial number is around 2000) at a very good condition, except one thing. The continuity of the  cabling next to the strain reliefs are broken. The sound is flawless except that some static can be heard when I am moving my head. 
My question is that if it is possible to cut back and remove the damaged section of the wires and reuse the same relief somehow, or they are glued together?
Is it something that can be done without damaging the earspeaker?

Thank you for your help in advance!


----------



## Amberlamps

Staxxx in my jean’s, phantom up in my garage.


----------



## Ad720

New Stax owner here. After months of shopping around I found something in my budget to dip my toe in. Got ahold of a SRS-2050 basic system at what I think is a pretty good price and so far I'm loving it. I totally get what people say about the detail and ability to resolve. 

My only complaint is the pads on the SR-202 ear speakers and I've ordered a set of 507 pads from Japan which I hope will help with that.

I'm sort of wondering what people general upgrade path has been like. Is the sound 80/20 ear speaker to energizer? 

Any advice (besides selling plasma for some 09s) or info for a first time 'stat owner is appreciated.


----------



## Mach3

Ad720 said:


> New Stax owner here. After months of shopping around I found something in my budget to dip my toe in. Got ahold of a SRS-2050 basic system at what I think is a pretty good price and so far I'm loving it. I totally get what people say about the detail and ability to resolve.
> 
> My only complaint is the pads on the SR-202 ear speakers and I've ordered a set of 507 pads from Japan which I hope will help with that.
> 
> ...



I feel these work better with the ZMF oval lambskin earpads than the 507 pads. Better seal overall and comfort. 

You can get the adapters for your SR-202 here
https://www.modhouseaudio.com/stax-earpad-adapter/xbd7diflbdflc39z62hgswzxgqship

Here an example with my L300 LE with the L700 headband
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1nBfDZ88G17d3eSw5
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6uDcFELVAYof4FV16


----------



## SHAMuuu

Anyone have a busted Sigma, interested in the plastic box.

Don't need drivers to work or cable or even headband or pads!

Just the box.

Will pay good $$$

PM me thx 

hopefully soon before i buy something else with the headphone funds.


----------



## Mheat122134

Mheat122134 said:


> Is this fixable? The volume control seems stuck, won’t move at all.



Does anyone know where I could find a replacement volume pot for this unit? (SRM-1/MK2) 

Or if anyone has encountered a similar issue before (stuck volume pot).


----------



## JimL11

Mheat122134 said:


> Does anyone know where I could find a replacement volume pot for this unit? (SRM-1/MK2)
> 
> Or if anyone has encountered a similar issue before (stuck volume pot).



As Kevin Gilmore has already pointed out, that is not the original pot. The reason that is the case is that the original pot is actually two mono pots in line, with one pot having a 1/4" shaft and the other having a 1/8" shaft which is concentric inside it. That is why the little diagram next to it shows a two-piece knob, with the thicker knob next to the front panel adjusting the R volume, and the thinner knob farther from the front panel adjusting the L volume. Unless you have the two piece knob, you cannot use the original concentric volume pot.

Since you have a one piece knob, you should be able to replace the volume control with any 50 kilohm dual log taper pot with a 1/4" diameter shaft. You will need to remove the front panel to replace the volume control, at which point you can also see what the diameter of the hole that the volume control occupies - usually that will be around 3/8" diameter. Then you just need to substitute a like-sized control - and of course, desolder the wires from the old control and solder them to the new control.


----------



## Ad720

Mach3 said:


> I feel these work better with the ZMF oval lambskin earpads than the 507 pads. Better seal overall and comfort.
> 
> You can get the adapters for your SR-202 here
> https://www.modhouseaudio.com/stax-earpad-adapter/xbd7diflbdflc39z62hgswzxgqship
> ...



Thanks, I ordered a pair and will give it a shot.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Feb 16, 2019)

Got a new one, well not 'new' but just had to get it:







"And then there were two..."






First impression of the 404 Limited... might like its sound more than the L300 Limited - sweet, sweet BASS with my L300 preset on the RME ADI-2 and more intimate also seems a little warmer and fuller sounding. Not as comfortable as my modded L300 Limited though - my left ear on the protective grille a little more than the right, but not as bad as both ears being smashed more to the grill on an L300.


----------



## Pahani

Congrats! Never heard them personally, but think the 404LE has a good reputation....wouldn't mind owning a pair myself.


----------



## 336881 (Feb 16, 2019)

The 404le's  are the best of the Lambda lot imo. Seriously until you get to energizer's like the kgsshv or better it is 90% of the sr-007. Much easier to drive than the sr-007 as well.


----------



## Sharkhunter

I picked up a used l300 limited + 353x from reddit. the seller says he got them from authorized stax dealer in usa and are 3 months old. How does the warranty works on these. r they like audeze how it follows the serial number or does it only apply to the original buyer like focal.


----------



## Ad720

VRacer-111 said:


> Got a new one, well not 'new' but just had to get it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, that's quite a pair to have. Congrats!


----------



## GarageBoy

Any reason to have the L700 and L300 ? (I.e. does the l300 do anything better than the l700?)


----------



## Scgorg

Some people may disagree, but in my opinion no. Depending on how forward you like your female vocals you may find that the L300 does that better, but to me it's just shouty. Bass is not even close on the L300, and treble is also much smoother, though similar in level.


----------



## GarageBoy

Thanks - I heard people say that the l300 was more forward than the L700 and I assumed the L700 was less airy and thicker (which doesn't seem to be the case)


----------



## Sharkhunter

I am looking to pick some stax pads for my L300 limited. Has anyone tried angled pads from *Vesper Audio*? If so what measurements did you choose.


----------



## cat6man

Pahani said:


> Congrats! Never heard them personally, but think the 404LE has a good reputation....wouldn't mind owning a pair myself.



+1, 

they are really nice.  as a committed monogamist, i sold mine to help pay for my 009.

randomly wondering these days if i should get a T2 (which would entail selling my BHSE)


----------



## VRacer-111

The more I listen to them the more I'm stunned and mesmerized by their sound. The L300 Limited just isn't special compared to the SR-404 Limited. I now understand why the SR-404 Limited is beloved, and it's one I can never see myself parting with. I will be able to let go of the L300 Limited with no regrets though, especial if the upcoming Kaldas Research RR 1 is able to take it's place.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Feb 21, 2019)

And I'm incredibly bummed right now... turned on my STAX rig, let it warm up playing music, fell asleep for a bit then woke up and wanted to listen. Put on the 404 Limiteds and immediately sound seems REALLY off (still not fully awake)... listen after the initial shock and seemingly no sound coming from left driver. Listen closer and there is sound, just really low compared to right driver. Was absolutely perfect last night when I turned it off. Turn system off, unplug, discharge with finger replug, turn system back on... same thing. Use RME to switch to mono and go to balance to see about centering the balance. Able to get sound balanced/centered with 67 of 100 Left offset dialed in... yowzers lot of offset correction! From perfectly centered to having to offset 67 steps to the Left overnight... I just can't listen right now to it...too depressed. Guess I need to try out the L300 Limiteds too... just don't feel like it right now...

Update: just put them on again after typing this out.... rebalancing needed at 82/100 Left...

Update 2: went ahead and tried the L300 Limiteds... perfectly balanced at center. Switched back to 404 Limiteds... 82/100 left balance required... am really sad now...

Update 3: balance back to 67/100 after shutting down and discharging the right side and reconnecting.  Listening to Venus Hum 'The Colors in the Wheel' album and just weeping at how beautiful it is on the 404 Limiteds. I don't know how long they will last, but I will absolutely cherish every remaining listen they have in them. Hopefully the RR 1 has some of the magic these things have and can be a suitable replacement for them when they eventually 'die'...


----------



## Don Quichotte

Replacing the drivers seems to be necessary...


----------



## thinker (Feb 21, 2019)

My friend is selling Libratum v3 and SRM-007mk2 230V for 2000 euros+shipping ,if interested drop PM


----------



## georgep

VRacer-111 said:


> And I'm incredibly bummed right now... turned on my STAX rig, let it warm up playing music, fell asleep for a bit then woke up and wanted to listen. Put on the 404 Limiteds and immediately sound seems REALLY off (still not fully awake)... listen after the initial shock and seemingly no sound coming from left driver. Listen closer and there is sound, just really low compared to right driver. Was absolutely perfect last night when I turned it off. Turn system off, unplug, discharge with finger replug, turn system back on... same thing. Use RME to switch to mono and go to balance to see about centering the balance. Able to get sound balanced/centered with 67 of 100 Left offset dialed in... yowzers lot of offset correction! From perfectly centered to having to offset 67 steps to the Left overnight... I just can't listen right now to it...too depressed. Guess I need to try out the L300 Limiteds too... just don't feel like it right now...
> 
> Update: just put them on again after typing this out.... rebalancing needed at 82/100 Left...
> 
> ...




What amp are you using - and how are using measuring the balance and offset?


----------



## Mach3

VRacer-111 said:


> Update 3: balance back to 67/100 after shutting down and discharging the right side and reconnecting.  Listening to Venus Hum 'The Colors in the Wheel' album and just weeping at how beautiful it is on the 404 Limiteds. I don't know how long they will last, but I will absolutely cherish every remaining listen they have in them. Hopefully the RR 1 has some of the magic these things have and can be a suitable replacement for them when they eventually 'die'...



Damn, that's a real bummer. I wonder if you sent them to Stax, would they still service them. I guess it never hurts to shoot them a email and ask first.


----------



## VRacer-111

georgep said:


> What amp are you using - and how are using measuring the balance and offset?



I'm using NAD C275BEE stereo amp with Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 transformer and RME ADI-2 DAC is used as DAC/preamp volume control. The ADI-2 allows for balance adjustment 100 steps left and 100 steps right. I just set the RME output to mono in menu and then adjusted balance in menu as needed to center the audio, took 67 of the 100 left adjustments . I got the 404 Limiteds in last Friday and there was no balance issue with them at all until last night. My L300 Limiteds I've used for not quite a year are perfectly fine and balanced in the center ( <c> indicator).


----------



## georgep

VRacer-111 said:


> I'm using NAD C275BEE stereo amp with Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 transformer and RME ADI-2 DAC is used as DAC/preamp volume control. The ADI-2 allows for balance adjustment 100 steps left and 100 steps right. I just set the RME output to mono in menu and then adjusted balance in menu as needed to center the audio, took 67 of the 100 left adjustments . I got the 404 Limiteds in last Friday and there was no balance issue with them at all until last night. My L300 Limiteds I've used for not quite a year are perfectly fine and balanced in the center ( <c> indicator).



I see - misread your earlier post - I don't have much to add here.


----------



## protoss

*Staxs *better step up their game! There are many upcoming electrostatic players out there these days! If they just only release lambdas and Omegas they will be outdated eventually! 

Dear Staxs,

You got to start releasing upgraded versions to your old products or bring in 'NEW' line ups! 

Stax Updated:

*Staxs Alpha/Gamma SE
Staxs Sigma X
Staxs 4070 SE
Staxs Omega Mass-drop edition
*
New line ups:
*
Stax Galaxy 
Stax Diety 
Stax Force  *

Thx
Pro


----------



## Whitigir

Took people 30 years and still have yet to reach the level, or appreciate, or understand Stax.  I don’t think Stax need to do anything at the moment


----------



## PointyFox

cat6man said:


> +1,
> 
> they are really nice.  as a committed monogamist, i sold mine to help pay for my 009.
> 
> randomly wondering these days if i should get a T2 (which would entail selling my BHSE)



Probably not. I prefer my bass port modded 007A + SRM-D50 to a 009S + T8000 by quite a wide margin.


----------



## Mach3

Whitigir said:


> Took people 30 years and still have yet to reach the level, or appreciate, or understand Stax.  I don’t think Stax need to do anything at the moment



Couldn't agree more with your comment. I have friends who come over and listen to my Stax collection. Then go to local department store asking sales clerk if they stock Stax Hahaha.


----------



## protoss (Feb 21, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> Took people 30 years and still have yet to reach the level, or appreciate, or understand Stax.  I don’t think Stax need to do anything at the moment



Do you mean 30 years for mainstream to understand staxs supreme audio quailty? If yes? Well 30yrs for present time is like 1 year of development. They need more products across the range like 'Chifiman'    still !


----------



## VRacer-111 (Feb 22, 2019)

Just as added information on the imbalance, the RME ADI-2 DAC channel level meters show 10dB higher on the left versus the right with current balance correction... so yeah, the left driver of the 404 Limited I have is about 10dB down from the right driver. And for situations like this is exactly why I wanted the RME ADI-2 DAC... because it can EQ L and R channels independantly. So I can make a 404LE profile where I drop the R channel about 10dB down across the board and balance gets pushed back to center without much, if any, balance offset adjustment actually needed.

Update: and just from playing around with the dual EQ on the RME the imbalance issue is gone for now... electrostats are WEIRD sometimes! LOL Back to almost naturally balanced with no dual EQ needed at all, just a tad bit of balance correction Left of 5/100. Whatever the reason, I'm glad it's basically back to what it was when I first got it!


----------



## raband

My L500's developed an imbalance through the 353 

Drove me insane - it was a wandering one - would need constant adjustment.

Switched over to the balanced inputs and everything is perfect

:S


----------



## cat6man

PointyFox said:


> Probably not. I prefer my bass port modded 007A + SRM-D50 to a 009S + T8000 by quite a wide margin.



am i missing something here?
what does the D50 vs. T8000 imply (and why) about the T2 vs. BHSE?


----------



## protoss

cat6man said:


> am i missing something here?
> what does the D50 vs. T8000 imply (and why) about the T2 vs. BHSE?



Well im going to get Stax mafia after me after this post  . But I guess someone needs to say this!

All anyone really need is a 353x , D50 or 727II . Getting a Bhse or anything like that is a waste of money 
Everyone here is brainwashing everyone else in buy these extremely expensive over $5000 amps for no reason!. 

A used tune up Stax SRM-T1S for $500 is pretty much = to a $5000 amp
The most anyone should spend is $1600 for a 727II 

Stax SRM 727II is end game. All anyone needs for a stax setup! 
And once people argue that a carbon or Bhse will bring out that extra lame nonsense of missing 10% is sad 

End of story. 

I got my bulletproof vest on. People need to stop scarying everyone that they need $10,000 to enjoy staxs! 

$2400 used 009 or a new $1900, 007 and a new SRM-727 for $1600 is all you need!!


P.S. *Needed to be said!*


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 22, 2019)

$10,000 to enjoy Stax ? Is still cheaper than $20,000 to enjoy dynamic headphones.

Trust me, there are a lot of snake oils and “sound good - expensive” dynamic stuff out there

Stax, there is only 1 clear route.

Either way you pick, you ended up spending a hell lot of money

Stax used to be expensive to play with, nowadays with the crazy competitions and the “bias and prejudice of people benchmarking stuff by pricing”, Stax is child play in cost to performances

Take Susvara for example....isn’t that making a $10,000 Stax a child play in comparison already ?


----------



## protoss

So you are justifying still for a $10,000 stax set up? 

Come on man. Thats absurd! Plus the dynamic scare is another scare. Ill make my way to the dynamic amp post soon!


----------



## Whitigir

Nah, mine is priceless


----------



## protoss

LOL. 

Well all rookies and newbies are welcome to staxs with a budget of $3000 or lower. This will give you supreme bliss.

There is no need to spend any higher!


----------



## tigon_ridge

protoss said:


> People need to stop scarying everyone that they need $10,000 to enjoy staxs!



I never got this impression reading through this thread. A lot of people who comment here are enthusiasts, for whom that last 10% is gold. That said, I'm enjoying the L300 driven by the srm-252s (digitally equalized) far more than any dynamic/planar setups I'd ever owned.


----------



## catscratch

I would say that Stax need to do quite a lot at the moment. The ergonomics of the new Lambdas are wretched, the build quality is straight out of the 70s, the headbands are cracking, the SR-007 needs to be modded to sound its best and the amps are all designs from the 80s and 90s that have yet to set a foot in the modern world. In terms of sound quality, yes they're still in a world of their own. But hey that's 'stats for ya. Do them well and there will be magic.

And no, you don't need $10k to enjoy them. I'm liking the L700/007t combo as much as any rig I've had over the years, and the 007t is probably more than you need to spend on an amp for the L700 anyway.


----------



## protoss

catscratch said:


> I would say that Stax need to do quite a lot at the moment. The ergonomics of the new Lambdas are wretched, the build quality is straight out of the 70s, the headbands are cracking, the SR-007 needs to be modded to sound its best and the amps are all designs from the 80s and 90s that have yet to set a foot in the modern world. In terms of sound quality, yes they're still in a world of their own. But hey that's 'stats for ya. Do them well and there will be magic.
> 
> And no, you don't need $10k to enjoy them. I'm liking the L700/007t combo as much as any rig I've had over the years, and the 007t is probably more than you need to spend on an amp for the L700 anyway.



You must of not read my post on page 1146   . This is what i was trying to get at !


----------



## VRacer-111

I didn't want to spend more than needed to upgrade from an SRM-323S...and decided to also make a custom rack based STAX system for all around music, movie, and entertainment use.

Mjolnir SRD-7 $740
NAD C275BEE - already owned
RME ADI-2 DAC - $1K
Furman M-8xR voltage regulator ~ $500
OPPO BDP-95 - already owned
Sanus rack - $200

I feel the bass with the 404 Limited is the beyond anything I've heard from any other STAX setup...including an SR-007 Mk2 on a Carbon CC/Yggy setup. Very much enjoy it and the RME ADI-2 really is worth WAY more than it's asking price for all it's abilities:


----------



## Whitigir

And I am listening to TayLor Swift Vinyl from this system !!


----------



## donpablo (Feb 22, 2019)

Hello. Im new here with Stax SRS-3100. Interesting thing I must say (DAC: Aune S6).

*Have a question: anyone here tried to add IFI iTube2 between DAC and Stax amp? I suppose it could give a nice boost to the system and will probably order it.*

My current desktop system was/is Aune S6 -> Little Dot mk3 SE -> Hifiman HE-560 (all on XLR cables) so my entry level Stax has a real powerful competition to beat.

I also made little modification to the sr-l300 by putting ductile tape about 2mm thick tape between pad plates and the headphone (on the edge of this first ellipse). Why? Because its all plastic and its very easy to check by hand that these 2 elements are not close together and there are sound leakages.
Isolation it these places causes better bass and its control.

Picture of half done job for one earspeaker (I know its ugly, I corrected it later)


----------



## tigon_ridge

donpablo said:


> Hello. Im new here with Stax SRS-3100. Interesting thing I must say (DAC: Aune S6).
> 
> *Have a question: anyone here tried to add IFI iTube2 between DAC and Stax amp? I suppose it could give a nice boost to the system and will probably order it.*
> 
> ...



I used to own the HE-560, and drove it with the Schiit Mjolnir. It is downright slow, imprecise and congested compared to the L300. Not even a close comparison, imo. The only thing it has over the L300 is bass extension. The L300's bass is still more detailed, and goes from 0-60 mph in under 2 seconds. L300 has far, far greater dynamic range; one moment a passage can be quiet/moderate, then the next your eardrums can get blasted.


----------



## donpablo

tigon_ridge said:


> I used to own the HE-560, and drove it with the Schiit Mjolnir. It is downright slow, imprecise and congested compared to the L300. Not even a close comparison, imo. The only thing it has over the L300 is bass extension. The L300's bass is still more detailed, and goes from 0-60 mph in under 2 seconds. L300 has far, far greater dynamic range; one moment a passage can be quiet/moderate, then the next your eardrums can get blasted.


Im not familiar with Schiit products. Have you listened it through XLR?
Yeah Stax have better holography than my above setup however I had great solid-weight-sound (probably thanks to balanced signal and tube amp).


----------



## tigon_ridge

donpablo said:


> Im not familiar with Schiit products. Have you listened it through XLR?
> Yeah Stax have better holography than my above setup however I had great solid-weight-sound (probably thanks to balanced signal and tube amp).



I don't know what XLR cables are. Or, are you referring to XLR connectors? The Mjolnir is a balanced amp, so XLR connectors were used. In any case, it's neither the cable nor the balanced/SE configuration that makes the biggest difference.


----------



## donpablo (Feb 22, 2019)

tigon_ridge said:


> I don't know what XLR cables are. Or, are you referring to XLR connectors? The Mjolnir is a balanced amp, so XLR connectors were used. In any case, it's neither the cable nor the balanced/SE configuration that makes the biggest difference.



I mean this https://www.techwalla.com/articles/what-is-an-xlr-cable

Yes I know Mjolnir is balanced amp however you are not obligated to use balanced cables (these with 3 pins each) - you can use normal unbalanced jack.
In my case balanced signal through XLR cables through Aune S6 -> LD mk3 SE -> Hifiman he-560 made a GREAT difference in sound, all in plus from bass to treble and soundstage. Even listening only through Aune S6 (without the Little Dot amp) was a big change using balanced outputs.
Why you havent noticed big differene in Mjolnir I don't know exactly, every DAC/AMP is different.

Btw.
Have you used any tube dac/preamp between source and Stax amp?


----------



## tigon_ridge

donpablo said:


> I mean this https://www.techwalla.com/articles/what-is-an-xlr-cable
> 
> Yes I know Mjolnir is balanced amp however you are not obligated to use balanced cables (these with 3 pins each) - you can use normal unbalanced jack.
> In my case balanced signal through XLR cables through Aune S6 -> LD mk3 SE -> Hifiman he-560 made a GREAT difference in sound, all in plus from bass to treble and soundstage. Even listening only through Aune S6 (without the Little Dot amp) was a big change using balanced outputs.
> ...



The Mjolnir version 1 doesn't have an SE output. I've switched between the Asgard 2 and the Mjolnir (balanced mode), and honestly the difference isn't that big between SE and balanced. Going from HE-560 to L300 is much bigger. Just watch an action movie with lots of contrast between soft and loud sounds. The clashing of swords sounds so real and loud/impactful. A sudden thunderbolt can scare you. Never felt that way with any non-Stax.

No, I've never had any interest in tubes.


----------



## donpablo

tigon_ridge said:


> I don't know what XLR cables are. Or, are you referring to XLR connectors? The Mjolnir is a balanced amp, so XLR connectors were used. In any case, it's neither the cable nor the balanced/SE configuration that makes the biggest difference.





tigon_ridge said:


> The Mjolnir version 1 doesn't have an SE output. I've switched between the Asgard 2 and the Mjolnir (balanced mode), and honestly the difference isn't that big between SE and balanced. Going from HE-560 to L300 is much bigger. Just watch an action movie with lots of contrast between soft and loud sounds. The clashing of swords sounds so real and loud/impactful. A sudden thunderbolt can scare you. Never felt that way with any non-Stax.
> 
> No, I've never had any interest in tubes.



Yep, Stax made an impression on me, however comparing to my previous setup it lacks something I can call sound-weight, this feeling of soundwave that hits you when you are on the concert. This is low-mid frequency 'problem'.  However I know that Aune S6 is very neutral/clear sounding DAC and thats the first case. Second I just corrected litle bit with mod I described few posts ago. I have also another idea in that matter (also extending soundstage) that can be done very cheaply in home - will share it here as well 
And third thing is that I probably will order IFI itube2 - from review it looks like this is the thing that will direct sound into what I need. (I was curious about this thing since long time btw.) 
About the holographic clarity and detail I can not complain at all  (Jazz and vocally oriented song sounds like I've never heard before)


----------



## Whitigir

donpablo said:


> Yep, Stax made an impression on me, however comparing to my previous setup it lacks something I can call sound-weight, this feeling of soundwave that hits you when you are on the concert. This is low-mid frequency 'problem'.  However I know that Aune S6 is very neutral/clear sounding DAC and thats the first case. Second I just corrected litle bit with mod I described few posts ago. I have also another idea in that matter (also extending soundstage) that can be done very cheaply in home - will share it here as well
> And third thing is that I probably will order IFI itube2 - from review it looks like this is the thing that will direct sound into what I need. (I was curious about this thing since long time btw.)
> About the holographic clarity and detail I can not complain at all  (Jazz and vocally oriented song sounds like I've never heard before)



And that is where the game gets more expensive , aka buying a better driving unit.....aka....amplifier, except it is only an amplifier the way common dynamic systems have, so it is called Driving units


----------



## Mach3

protoss said:


> Well im going to get Stax mafia after me after this post  . But I guess someone needs to say this!
> 
> All anyone really need is a 353x , D50 or 727II . Getting a Bhse or anything like that is a waste of money
> Everyone here is brainwashing everyone else in buy these extremely expensive over $5000 amps for no reason!.
> ...



While I would agree that you don't need to spend alot to get a good idea of just how good Stax setup can be.
I wouldn't agree that SRM-727II is end game 
At louder volume, it just doesn't properly juice the higher end Stax.
Lambdas range no problems. 

I still think the Stax SRS-2170 represent incredible value. At the time, I purchased them for $600 to see what all the fuss was about.
From that moment on, I have not purchased a single dynamic or planar. headphone 
My foray into Stax has made me realised it was cheaper to get a better sound for less compared to a dynamic setup.



Whitigir said:


> $10,000 to enjoy Stax ? Is still cheaper than $20,000 to enjoy dynamic headphones.
> 
> Trust me, there are a lot of snake oils and “sound good - expensive” dynamic stuff out there
> 
> ...



Yes take the almighty Susvara and add the WA234-MONO, 6 + 16 = 22k
Sure it will sound good. But when it starts to cost as much as a decent car, it ridiculous.
Enuff said


----------



## cat6man (Feb 22, 2019)

protoss said:


> Well im going to get Stax mafia after me after this post  . But I guess someone needs to say this!
> 
> All anyone really need is a 353x , D50 or 727II . Getting a Bhse or anything like that is a waste of money
> Everyone here is brainwashing everyone else in buy these extremely expensive over $5000 amps for no reason!.
> ...




i've loved stax since my first SR-3 based system in college with the energizer powered by my old Kenwood amplifier.

what you spend depends on how much you appreciate any perceived incremental change and how much value you place on it.
i found the BHSE to be money well spent but everyone will have their own sweet spot.
synergy also matters as the quality of the source plays a big role.

i have no desire to debate or convince you or anyone else.
enjoy the music

as always, YMMV


----------



## protoss

Mach3 said:


> My foray into Stax has made me realised it was cheaper to get a better sound for less compared to a dynamic setup.



For a average Joe that should be 99% of people here. So, yes the 727II should be end game. And it is end game. BHSE on wrong tubes sounds awful and bright and garbage. 

Again justifying a 10K setup to a Joe down the street will get you laugh out of town. And if you actually A/B them than it's just a 10% differences. No way it should be encouraged for such expense to get a useless sound of 10% 

Susvara is 6k and it sound amazing from a 1980s receiver that can cost $200. Or just get a GSx-mini for $2000 which will at least still be less than 10k 

*And we got to stop comparing planars to electrostatic.

Electrostatic vs electrostatic 
Planar vs planar 
Dynamic vs Dynamic 

There should be no mix and match because it's not fair. *


----------



## tigon_ridge

Such comparisons are necessary, because estats are still very niche. People need points of reference to understand why they should spring for Stax, because it's quite a big commitment. It's like going from combustion cars to full-electric ones.


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## protoss (Feb 22, 2019)

tigon_ridge said:


> Such comparisons are necessary, because estats are still very niche. People need points of reference to understand why they should spring for Stax, because it's quite a big commitment. It's like going from combustion cars to full-electric ones.



I have a hard time to agree with this.

I had many people ask me, so what you think of 009+Bhse or 009+carbon against a H800+Schiit Jotunheim !!!??  I am like what the heck is this comparison.

or 009+bhse against LCD2 + thx aaa 789?! These comparison just can not be compare.

Maybe its easy for you to compare.

Commonsense to me is;

Whats better -

009 or Jade2 or 007 or Voce or Jr. or He-1 ?
or
Abyss or Susvara or LCD4 or HE1000 or Ether
or
Utopia or HD800 or ZMF dynamic


I like this review: explaning something what I am trying to convey : https://www.themasterswitch.com/review-focal-utopia

*Quote -* "The Focal Utopia, on paper, shouldn’t be the best headphones in the world. For one thing, they are dynamic driver headphones – a type of driver that is found in everything from Beats By Dre to Skullcandy. It’s by far the most common type of headphone driver, and is vastly different to the electrostatic and planar types found in most other high-end headphones".


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## arnaud

Protoss, I have hard time to believe you aren’t trolling here. 

First attempting to set a cap price or performance to the “last 10 percent”, next claiming this last 10% is not worth to pursue (what the heck are you trying to doing with high end phones then?!), and last that headphones of varying technologies should not be compared? 

What comes next in the segregation? Never compared open back / semi open / closed back, sealed vs ported/leaky front, round vs rectangular housings, plastic vs metal domes?

Come on, this is beyond silly!


----------



## protoss

arnaud said:


> “last 10 percent”



What if I said that last 10% is actually found in the 727II ? and everything after that is placebo ?


----------



## bcoryh

protoss said:


> .
> 
> BHSE on wrong tubes sounds awful and bright and garbage.



I guess I have been lucky. You must have tried some pretty terrible tubes.....


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## Mach3 (Feb 22, 2019)

protoss said:


> For a average Joe that should be 99% of people here. So, yes the 727II should be end game. And it is end game. BHSE on wrong tubes sounds awful and bright and garbage.
> 
> Again justifying a 10K setup to a Joe down the street will get you laugh out of town. And if you actually A/B them than it's just a 10% differences. No way it should be encouraged for such expense to get a useless sound of 10%
> 
> ...



I think you're side tracking on my point I made. I do agree with you, that you don't need to speed a lot to get good sound with Stax's gear.
I don't believe the SRM-727 II is endgames. But I respect in your view it is endgame.
To the average joe they won't be spending 1.6k for a driver. Most of the so call average joe/friends I know would never buy any headphone over $400.
Let alone headphone, amp/driver combo of any sort.
Also I wasn't comparing electrostatic vs dynamic vs planar. I was simply making a statement (my own opinion) on my journey to audio nirvana that I prefer electrostatic, setup base on price performance.
I know some people still prefer their HD600/HD650 compared to the entry Lambdas kit from Stax and I respect their opinion.


----------



## arnaud

protoss said:


> What if I said that last 10% is actually found in the 727II ? and everything after that is placebo ?



Then, I’d suggest your criteria or upstream gear/music make anything above the 727II overkill.

On my side, you can look my history and I used to be also very skeptical of the stax mafia, always dissing stax gear and promotting alternative gilmore based designs. I would say that the 009 is so efficient that 727 is plenty for it, blablabla.

I then went on a quest, bought a bhse, organized / participated in local meets where we compared various stax and 3rd party amps. To my ears, the difference between 727 and bhse driving an 009 is akin to the difference difference between 009 and 009S. The 727 is grainy, has no bass control, poor depth and layering compared to the blue hawaii. Other amps like the kgst sounded warm but also felt very restricted in terms of dynamics. Others like the cavalli estat sounded plain funny / bizarre (interestingly, these are never mentioned these days, several years after the initial hype).

On the other hand, opposite to what you say, i found the tubes in the bhse to play a rather subtle role in the voicing. I bought numerous quads, most nos, some new and eventually learned to forget about the tubes given the subtle differences at best...

Now, if for you these easily perceivable improvement in driver control, dynamics, layering and precision of the imaging are all in the “illusive last few percents that isn’t worth chasing”, that suggests you may have been chasing the wrong tail when getting into stats.

We’re beating a dead horse here but it’s worth keeping in mind that the driver is relatively way more critical in estat applications than traditional ortho or isodynamic transducers. Regardless of the transducer technology, garbage in garbage out is surely applicable. In the case of hard to drive omega style stax phones (lamdbas are way easier to drive as mentionned before), cutting corners in the amplification stage is unfortunately spoiling the experience way more than other headphones ime.

The other disadvantage is that the source (and played material) also need to be up to snuff in order to really get what ultimate stat gear is about. For example, when I mention about stage depth and layering above, this supposes that the source and the recording can deliver this kind of information and that your hearing is sensible to it. Again from my personal experience, half the battle hasn’t been the transducer but rather the source and this has taken time for me to nail done.

Arnaud


----------



## tigon_ridge

Mach3 said:


> I know some people still prefer their HD600/HD650 compared to the entry Lambdas kit from Stax and I respect their opinion.



There's something very wrong with these people's hearing perception. Comparing these mid-fi senns to the L300 is like comparing laptops to desktop PCs. The difference in resolution, dynamics, layeredness and imaging, airiness, transparency, etc. etc. is not even close. Those senns lose in absolutely every category here, except some may prefer their signatures. I don't think I can even be friends with someone who has such defect in their hearing or judgment.

Okay, half joking..._half_.


----------



## JimL11

protoss said:


> For a average Joe that should be 99% of people here. So, yes the 727II should be end game. And it is end game. BHSE on wrong tubes sounds awful and bright and garbage.
> 
> Again justifying a 10K setup to a Joe down the street will get you laugh out of town. And if you actually A/B them than it's just a 10% differences. No way it should be encouraged for such expense to get a useless sound of 10%
> 
> ...



Well, I'll go even cheaper than you. A Stax SRM-T1 with constant current output mod sounded better than an SRM-727II with global feedback mod to both myself and three friends in a direct comparison, and costs less. Is it as good as a BHSE? No, again in direct comparison - but the BHSE costs 8-10x more, so it should sound better. Is the BHSE worth it? Depends on the buyer and his/her budget. Some people are like Oscar Wilde: "I have simple tastes, I am always satisfied by the best." And others aren't.

And why shouldn't we compare planar to electrostatic to dynamic? That's what buyers do ALL THE TIME, they compare different headphones using different technologies to each other, and buy based on what sounds best and is most comfortable to them within their budget.


----------



## protoss

JimL11 said:


> why shouldn't we compare planar to electrostatic to dynamic



Because its unfair lol. But yes we do it all the time. And thats why I was trying to change the mindset of maybe we should not do it


----------



## walakalulu

Here’s the thing - I’m using an ARC CD9 source into. GG  and 009S. I’ve spent a month with an Atlas Asimi interconnect which costs not far short of the price of the headphones. The improvements in sound quality were such that I had to buy one. ie cables between source and amp matter more than many folk think. And I wasn’t using cheap cable originally either.


----------



## formyears

protoss said:


> So you are justifying still for a $10,000 stax set up?
> 
> Come on man. Thats absurd! Plus the dynamic scare is another scare. Ill make my way to the dynamic amp post soon!


i’ll defend my 12k STAX setup thats sitting on myfloor because i live absurdly, apparently an ‘occupational’ hazard acquired after 40 yrs being an audiophile.


----------



## formyears

Whitigir said:


> And I am listening to TayLor Swift Vinyl from this system !!


me too - compared vynl-flac rip to 24bit version, and itunes mastered.  and they all sound different to me...


----------



## ahmedie

I am interested to buy the following amp, it can driver stax, balanced headphone and normal speakers, he is a diy guy from former audio Japanese company. he is listing the specs in the page, could someone be kind enought to compare stax specs to a kgss or stax 353x ? 
https://www.ishinolab.com/modules/doc_merchandise/original/masters/sx-3000bdg_sp.html
https://translate.google.com/transl...rchandise/original/masters/sx-3000bdg_sp.html

btw, his amp have very goods reviews 
https://minkara.carview.co.jp/userid/222143/blog/40658217/
https://ocarina-style.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2016-10-06


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## bcoryh (Feb 23, 2019)

Many moons ago, when I was paying my way through grad school, I was responsible for the wine list at a very nice restaurant. Some were glad to pay for excellent wine that happened to be expensive; some could not afford that wine; and still others who could afford the expensive wine chose not to buy it. All were valid choices which is why our list offered a range of options. But, no one ever proclaimed that the excellent wine which happened to be expensive was a scam or that it was no better than the less expensive wine. Yet, in the audiophile world, such proclamations are made all the time - those who cannot "taste the difference" assume that rest of us cannot, either.

One thing we all can agree on: drink enough wine and everything sounds good.


----------



## formyears

bcoryh said:


> Many moons ago, when I was paying my way through grad school, I was responsible for the wine list at a very nice restaurant. Some were glad to pay for excellent wine that happened to be expensive; some could not afford that wine; and still others who could afford the expensive wine chose not to buy it. All were valid choices which is why our list offered a range of options. But, no one ever proclaimed that the excellent wine which happened to be expensive was a scam or that it was no better than the less expensive wine. Yet, in the audiophile world, such proclamations are made all the time - those who cannot "taste the difference" assume that rest of us cannot, either.
> 
> One thing we all can agree on: drink enough wine and everything sounds good.


i cant hear anyone else with my phones on. ideal. dont read when listening either. my philosophy.


----------



## Whitigir

formyears said:


> me too - compared vynl-flac rip to 24bit version, and itunes mastered.  and they all sound different to me...


Vinyl is ways better  and those 70-80 true analog recording on a good records is like goldd


----------



## formyears

Whitigir said:


> Vinyl is ways better  and those 70-80 true analog recording on a good records is like goldd


santana on vynl-flac i can see carlos


----------



## statfi

Whitigir said:


> Vinyl is ways better  and those 70-80 true analog recording on a good records is like goldd


Is Taylor Swift's album true AAA: recorded, mastered and distributed with all analog technology and free of any digital links?


----------



## formyears

JimL11 said:


> Well, I'll go even cheaper than you. A Stax SRM-T1 with constant current output mod sounded better than an SRM-727II with global feedback mod to both myself and three friends in a direct comparison, and costs less. Is it as good as a BHSE? No, again in direct comparison - but the BHSE costs 8-10x more, so it should sound better. Is the BHSE worth it? Depends on the buyer and his/her budget. Some people are like Oscar Wilde: "I have simple tastes, I am always satisfied by the best." And others aren't.
> 
> And why shouldn't we compare planar to electrostatic to dynamic? That's what buyers do ALL THE TIME, they compare different headphones using different technologies to each other, and buy based on what sounds best and is most comfortable to them within their budget.


i agree
Joe I am


----------



## Windseeker

Mach3 said:


> I wouldn't agree that SRM-727II is end game
> At louder volume, it just doesn't properly juice the higher end Stax.



I agree with your point on volume issue of SRM-727 II, although in my case, my mild discontent (using SR-009) was more about the performance when the volume is low.

I figured this was partly due to the Alps Alpine RK potentionmeter used in the volume unit, so like some other STAX afficionados I decided to utilize the volume bypass switch ("direct switch") inside SRM-727 II and insert a pre-amp in the chain.  In the end I settled with an Accuphase pre-amp, but I've read others using pre-amps from Luxman etc. with highly satisfactory result as well.

At this moment, I'm pretty happy with the system (whether loud or quiet), so I guess for me SRM-727II has turned out to be pretty good as an energizer. Of course, YMMV.


----------



## bearwarrior

I feel driving a 009 with 727II is like fueling a Porsche with #87 gas. It will run but not optimal. When you put #93 in, the performance (horsepower) is definitely better. At what percentage? Based on the measurements, it is around 15% better. Does it worth it? Please check with all the Porsche owners and ask them what gas they put into their baby. Most of Porsche owners feel they are superior to the owners of BMW or Mercedes because their cars have better capability. But when you fuel it with cheap gas, it is almost the same as other sports cars. Then what is the point to buy a Porsche? This is the same situation when you buy 009/009S. It is one of the best headphones available in the world. Without chasing for the best and becoming an "audioholic", no one will buy 009. I highly doubt people buy 009 as the very first headphone. People have come from a good journey and read this thread right now. The choice is on everybody's hand. There is no right or wrong. But the 009 (or the Porsche) deserves better. Money matters, but the time we spend on this and the experience we have been through deserves the best. YMMV


----------



## formyears

bearwarrior said:


> I feel driving a 009 with 727II is like fueling a Porsche with #87 gas. It will run but not optimal. When you put #93 in, the performance (horsepower) is definitely better. At what percentage? Based on the measurements, it is around 15% better. Does it worth it? Please check with all the Porsche owners and ask them what gas they put into their baby. Most of Porsche owners feel they are superior to the owners of BMW or Mercedes because their cars have better capability. But when you fuel it with cheap gas, it is almost the same as other sports cars. Then what is the point to buy a Porsche? This is the same situation when you buy 009/009S. It is one of the best headphones available in the world. Without chasing for the best and becoming an "audioholic", no one will buy 009. I highly doubt people buy 009 as the very first headphone. People have come from a good journey and read this thread right now. The choice is on everybody's hand. There is no right or wrong. But the 009 (or the Porsche) deserves better. Money matters, but the time we spend on this and the experience we have been through deserves the best. YMMV


agree.  
some stax items appear to be on sale now- including my t8000


----------



## Whitigir

statfi said:


> Is Taylor Swift's album true AAA: recorded, mastered and distributed with all analog technology and free of any digital links?


Honestly, as good as it sound, it is a wishful thinking to have all the analog recording done without any digital in this modern age.....hence I said the 70-80 original analogs are gold.

Still, her albums quality is much better than others, except the floor noises lol


----------



## JimL11

ahmedie said:


> I am interested to buy the following amp, it can driver stax, balanced headphone and normal speakers, he is a diy guy from former audio Japanese company. he is listing the specs in the page, could someone be kind enought to compare stax specs to a kgss or stax 353x ?
> https://www.ishinolab.com/modules/doc_merchandise/original/masters/sx-3000bdg_sp.html
> https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.ishinolab.com/modules/doc_merchandise/original/masters/sx-3000bdg_sp.html
> 
> ...



So, of course, one cannot judge sound quality by specifications alone. The price of 180,000 yen = $1625 according to my currency converter. Nevertheless:

Max output: 550Vpp = 190 Vrms

Distortion: 0.1% at 100Vrms, 1 kHz

Freq response: 10-100 kHz at 50V output

Gain: 59 dB for e-stat headphones, 48 dB for speakers (note most speaker amps have 20-26 dB, 48 dB is 100x greater than usual), no spec for dynamic/planar headphones, which are usually around 10 dB)


By comparison, Stax 353x

Max output: 400 Vrms (roughly double the max output = 6 dB higher volume)

Distortion: 0.01% at 100Vrms, 1 kHz (solid state amps tend to have better distortion specs than vacuum tube amps)

Freq response: DC to 90 kHz into SR-L headphone (no output level given, but in the past Stax has always used 100VRMS output)

Gain: 60 dB


The KGSS has been superseded by other designs, but specs from KG's original article (copyright 2000):

Max output: 1200Vpp = 420 Vrms

Distortion 0.008% at 800Vpp (280 Vrms) from 20-20kHz

Freq response: DC-45kHz into Omega II, no output level specified.

Gain: 60 dB


So, in a nutshell, max output voltage is half, distortion is higher, gain is very similar. 

According to the website, the output uses plate chokes (i.e. an inductor). Now, plate chokes have their lowest impedance at low frequencies, whereas Stax headphones resemble a capacitor and have their highest impedance at low frequencies. Music tends to have its maximum levels at low frequencies (below middle C). This means that most of the amplifier power will go to driving the plate chokes (i.e. wasted as heat) rather than driving the headphones, which is the whole point of the exercise.This not only wastes power, but increases distortion. By comparison, both the Stax and KG designs use constant current output loads, which allows the bulk of the output power to drive the headphones. The Woo WES used plate choke outputs with a more powerful output tube (EL34) than the 6V6 used in this amplifier, and had mixed reviews. 

Finally, as a general rule, amps which can work with normal headphones, e-stat headphones and speakers are a compromise which are not optimum for any as the requirements for each type of transducer are so different.


----------



## JimL11 (Feb 23, 2019)

I would also add that a choke (inductor = L) and an electrostatic headphone, which resembles a capacitor, form a resonant circuit. For example, an e-stat headphone resembles a capacitor of about 100 pF (C), which in combination with a plate choke of, say, 100H, has a resonance at about 1.6 kHz. Since this resonant frequency varies as the square root of LC, there is no practical way to move this resonance out of the audible range, as you would need to use an inductor of 15,000H to get it up to 20 kHz. You can minimize it by having a large resistance in series with the inductor, and the amount of wire needed would probably do nicely, but you cannot completely eliminate it.


----------



## formyears

Whitigir said:


> Honestly, as good as it sound, it is a wishful thinking to have all the analog recording done without any digital in this modern age.....hence I said the 70-80 original analogs are gold.
> 
> Still, her albums quality is much better than others, except the floor noises lol


thats SONY.  a while back SONY made her video in 4k when it was very expensive.


----------



## formyears

JimL11 said:


> I would also add that a choke (inductor = L) and an electrostatic headphone, which resembles a capacitor, form a resonant circuit. For example, an e-stat headphone resembles a capacitor of about 100 pF (C), which in combination with a plate choke of, say, 100H, has a resonance at about 1.6 kHz. Since this resonant frequency varies as the square root of LC, there is no practical way to move this resonance out of the audible range, as you would need to use an inductor of 15,000H to get it up to 20 kHz. You can minimize it by having a large resistance in series with the inductor, and the amount of wire needed would probably do nicely, but you cannot completely eliminate it.


need serious iron for 15k Henries of inductance, and it will be quite large.


----------



## protoss (Feb 23, 2019)

bearwarrior said:


> I feel driving a 009 with 727II is like fueling a Porsche with #87 gas



The gas will be a balance R2R Dac or another good balance dac. It is also great with 1984 to 94's legendary CD-players with those best analog sounds.
Also good cooper interconnects will smooth the edges of the 727.  And proper Audio files can easily get to 5K level amps.

Guess my main argument is to get the best performances for fraction of the price. I believe it is possible.


----------



## Whitigir

There ain't nothing analog from a CD....nothing LOL.  The moment u quantizing it, it is no longer analog


----------



## protoss

Whitigir said:


> There ain't nothing analog from a CD....nothing LOL



I disagree


----------



## Whitigir

protoss said:


> I disagree


That is an awesome respond, I love it whenever people disagree with me.  We dont have to agree on everything, and that is what making the world insteresting


----------



## formyears

protoss said:


> I disagree


they (dig recordings) used to be labelled AAD, ADD, DDD for the recording and mastering and final digital obv.


----------



## protoss

Whitigir said:


> That is an awesome respond, I love it whenever people disagree with me.  We dont have to agree on everything, and that is what making the world insteresting



okay well I heard about 10 or more CD-players from 1984 to 1994. The legendary ones. i named a few on my name name.

Philips TDA1543 /1541 DAC' has pretty much analog sounds to them. and many more i dont want to name. Just click name lol


----------



## formyears

Whitigir said:


> That is an awesome respond, I love it whenever people disagree with me.  We dont have to agree on everything, and that is what making the world insteresting


well you are in a STAX thread


----------



## Whitigir

I wonder if anyone tried DDA ? Lol.  But I agree, they should bring back those disclosures....it should be a crime to hide them away


----------



## formyears

protoss said:


> okay well I heard about 10 or more CD-players from 1984 to 1994. The legendary ones. i named a few on my name name.
> 
> Philips TDA1543 /1541 DAC' has pretty much analog sounds to them. and many more i dont want to name. Just click name lol


i have the first gen SONY CDP. it has a copper plating everywhere and external connector for data processing.


----------



## formyears (Feb 23, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> I wonder if anyone tried DDA ? Lol.  But I agree, they should bring back those disclosures....it should be a crime to hide them away


have that too its an AKAI RTR tape deck, not stax either
forgot about my laserdiscs -- they are -- never mind


----------



## protoss

formyears said:


> i have the first gen SONY CDP. it has a copper plating everywhere and external connector for data processing.



Bro, this is my legendary Pioneer PD-91! From 1988! Copper honey comb plate inside. The friggin" sound is amazeballs!

Better than all modern gear! And we talking about bhse or carbon


----------



## Whitigir

protoss said:


> Bro, this is my legendary Pioneer PD-91! From 1988! Copper honey comb plate inside. The friggin" sound is amazeballs!
> 
> Better than all modern gear! And we talking about bhse or carbon



Nahh, you should be buying DMP-Z1 !!!!! The more expensive something is, the better it will sound!! That is the modern world we live in....that is why Stax is affordable nowadays.  Very...affordable .

The last time somebody claimed Copper chassis made it sound good was A&K, then WM1Z....and they are expensive ! They must sound good ! Hahaha


----------



## protoss (Feb 23, 2019)

Lol, you funny. I understand. Connecting staxs to these legendary players is something to behold thou.


----------



## ahmedie

Thank you JimL11 very much !! I really understand many things ^^ ! I think I will look for kg design then ha !


----------



## formyears

Whitigir said:


> Nahh, you should be buying DMP-Z1 !!!!! The more expensive something is, the better it will sound!! That is the modern world we live in....that is why Stax is affordable nowadays.  Very...affordable .
> 
> The last time somebody claimed Copper chassis made it sound good was A&K, then WM1Z....and they are expensive ! They must sound good ! Hahaha


i have DVDA which is made of composites and it is 19 yrs old, actually using it today.  its in the picture thread I made yesterday.
my sony CDP 101 still works along with my sony CD changers and DVD changers I have several.  FO works to date


----------



## formyears

protoss said:


> Lol, you funny. I understand. Connecting staxs to these legendary players is something to behold thou.


----------



## formyears (Feb 23, 2019)

protoss said:


> Bro, this is my legendary Pioneer PD-91! From 1988! Copper honey comb plate inside. The friggin" sound is amazeballs!
> 
> Better than all modern gear! And we talking about bhse or carbon


still wearing my stax and the t8000 is connected to all my legacy equipment.  my sony was circa 82, nineteenth century
and the itunes playing FERGIE from my MAC PRO 1st generation


----------



## paulchiu

formyears said:


> still wearing my stax and the t8000 is connected to all my legacy equipment.  my sony was circa 82, nineteenth century



Lol. Twentieth century.  Still a baby


----------



## formyears

paulchiu said:


> Lol. Twentieth century.  Still a baby


last gen boomer in fact.  haha


----------



## 336881

protoss said:


> The gas will be a balance R2R Dac or another good balance dac. It is also great with 1984 to 94's legendary CD-players with those best analog sounds.
> Also good cooper interconnects will smooth the edges of the 727.  And proper Audio files can easily get to 5K level amps.
> 
> Guess my main argument is to get the best performances for fraction of the price. I believe it is possible.



Tis true to a certain extent. Cd players and dac's from that era are tremendously under rated and affordable. I spent $1600 recently, including shipping, for my own sl-p1300 and das-r1. Any headphone amp builder will have a tremendously hard time coming up with a better bang for the dollar.

By the time you get to Omega level though I really think you owe it to yourself to try a kgsshv or better along with a great source. First thing is the 727ii will not drive the sr-007. Not enough gain. It will drive the sr-009 but not a good synergy, too bright, dry, and bass light. You can diy a kgsshv for the price of a 727ii new and while I did not think the kgsshv was all that great with the sr-009 it was amazing with the sr-007's.

You know in the 84-94 era you mention Stax built their ultimate headphone listening system with inflation factored in? Guess what a whole lot more money was put into? It was the $4200 T2 energizer. The sr-Omega headphone was just $1699.


----------



## tigon_ridge

antimatter said:


> You can diy a kgsshv for the price of a 727ii new...



Don't Spritzer's DIY kgsshv parts go for around $750 total? The BOM parts would add around another $300, right? Pretty sure the 727, even used, costs more than that.


----------



## Whitigir

U need chassis and volume pot too though


----------



## tigon_ridge

I see. I thought those were included.


----------



## Whitigir

tigon_ridge said:


> I see. I thought those were included.


I never built it from Spritzer kit, so I wouldnt know...it is just that it had always been a choir to look for a good chassis, do metal works and find a good volume pot...for me


----------



## formyears

if you can see the tine dot on the vol knob-
using balanced ip of srm t8000; gain increase leaves the vol at 9instead of 12 when se ip used
either way breaking inthe t8000 for a few days while ireconfigure my existing equipment


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 24, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> Honestly, as good as it sound, it is a wishful thinking to have all the analog recording done without any digital in this modern age.....hence I said the 70-80 original analogs are gold.
> 
> Still, her albums quality is much better than others, except the floor noises lol



Woa, I just found out that Taylor Swift did indeed recorded her stuff in analog master tape.  No wonder why her vinyl “reputation” sounded good....except that horrible floor noise.  We can’t get all authentic analog, but at least it is good start
https://www.grammy.com/grammys/news/soul-analog

It seems that the recording industry is going back to visiting analog mastering and recording.  I wonder if we have a sub thread for which artist and albums are recorded this way ?


----------



## tumpux

stevehoffman forum should have one of those..


----------



## donpablo (Feb 24, 2019)

Hello,

As I promised in the last post I will describe the mod that drastically increased the sound flowing from my new Stax SRS-3100 system.

* First of all, almost everything is solid plastic so between the part with pad and rest of headphone there is a space that always will have some sound leakages (this ellipsoid place), it will never be perfectly close together because of its plastic nature.
You can avoid it by placing there 1-2mm thich ductile tape.



After that we have low-bass frequency corrected a bit.

* Next SUPER-IMPORTANT thing that works probably only with electrostatic headphones (doesn't work with dynamic and planar headphones - yes I checked on my own) - we can easily do something that hugely improves low and low-mid ranges, have more mass in sound, bass line is fuller and more present, more dense and lasts longer. In addition we have much wider sound-stage and this is all without any negative changes in the rest of frequencies (higher mid and highs).
*OK then what needs to be done to achieve it?* (I don't know if what I have done in the first point has any meaning here because I tried this after that). Having headphones on head, catch them by fingers and pull off the head very little, few millimters, try few distances.




Good test is listening to this playlist from 30 to 60hz and checking what distant from head makes bigger difference for you:


How to sustain this distance from the head is not hard to discover I suppose 




The final result:




Now the question is, why it works that way? I have some suspicions. Maybe because of the very construction of electrostatic headphones and the big size of surface that produces the sound-wave. Making a little bit of space between the head and pad let the sound waves flow around the head and some parts of frequency (especially low and low-mid) interfering with eachother making certain range fuller.

Ps. I warn you, if you have thought that Stax headphones have no isolation - try it now : P


----------



## Whitigir

donpablo said:


> Hello,
> 
> As I promised in the last post I will describe the mod that drastically increased the sound flowing from my new Stax SRS-3100 system.
> 
> ...





Very interesting, I have noticed this but didn’t pay attention to it much.  So, you are using some kind of felt tapes to create a spaces between the earpads and your ears ? Instead of doing the vent mod ?

Bass would be affected, but how about the rest of the spectrum ?


----------



## donpablo

Whitigir said:


> Very interesting, I have noticed this but didn’t pay attention to it much.  So, you are using some kind of felt tapes to create a spaces between the earpads and your ears ? Instead of doing the vent mod ?
> 
> Bass would be affected, but how about the rest of the spectrum ?



I use leg chair pads  and no I haven't noticed any negative change in the rest of spectrum (and that's beautiful! because I love crystal clear highs)


----------



## Whitigir

donpablo said:


> I use leg chair pads  and no I haven't noticed any negative change in the rest of spectrum (and that's beautiful! because I love crystal clear highs)


It is good to create spaces, less fart and improved bass. 1 stone for 2 birds


----------



## donpablo

Whitigir said:


> It is good to create spaces, less fart and improved bass. 1 stone for 2 birds


And soundstage..
I know it looks ugly but this is the first version, second would be to make it look more elegant : P
Stax or some other company should sell such overlays for pads. Would sell like crazy I suppose.


----------



## tigon_ridge

donpablo said:


> Hello,
> 
> As I promised in the last post I will describe the mod that drastically increased the sound flowing from my new Stax SRS-3100 system.
> 
> ...




I'm getting the opposite result with spacing the pads away from my head. Maybe it's because I'm not using stock pads, or because I haven't yet done the first mod. I'm getting less bass impact. I've read that this mod works really well for the sr-207, though. Your first mod is something I've been wanting to do for a while now, but haven't decided on what material to use.


----------



## donpablo (Feb 24, 2019)

tigon_ridge said:


> I'm getting the opposite result with spacing the pads away from my head. Maybe it's because I'm not using stock pads, or because I haven't yet done the first mod. I'm getting less bass impact. I've read that this mod works really well for the sr-207, though. Your first mod is something I've been wanting to do for a while now, but haven't decided on what material to use.


Might be because you are using other pads (probably much more deeper). Too much space between inside pads edges and driver kills the timber of bass. It is all very delicate and very small changes can cause big differences. You should try different mini-distances to check the result - best with this bass playlist because its all the time same frequency playing so you can move headphones during listening and immediately catch the change.

Also its good to do the first mod because of the nature of solid plastic parts (always will leak somewhere). Also solid plalstic can change due to different temperatures so everyone having Stax headphones may here them a bit different without such mod.


----------



## spacequeen7 (Feb 24, 2019)

This my final rev. 1/2 inch rise with 
*Armacell CXS12043 Armacell sheet Armaflex 1/2"* foam,it took my SR-207 to another level ,very happy with this mod


----------



## Mach3 (Feb 25, 2019)

Yep without those air vents. The bass cuts off way way too soon. I wonder how your mod compares with the SR-207 with the 3D printed adapter with the ZMF lambskin earpads.
I've got the latter and they are so comfy.

Here some electrostatic p0®n large photo.. you've been warned

Stax SR-507 with 3D printed Adaptor & ZMF Angled Oval Lambskin Earpads














My Stax Transportable Setup

















Stax Omega II MK1 Rare Early Brown Version & Black version


----------



## donpablo

Brothers in headphones - I have a question.
I see there are used Stax srd-7 amps quite cheaply sold across the net. I am curious of how that thing sound comparing to my entry level SRM-252s. Will it work with my sr-l300?


----------



## Pahani

spacequeen7 said:


> This my final rev. 1/2 inch rise with
> *Armacell CXS12043 Armacell sheet Armaflex 1/2"* foam,it took my SR-207 to another level ,very happy with this mod



Hey, now.....I like that a LOT! I've done the "Straw mod" to my 207's, but gotta admit it looks kinda fuggly like that. This method is MUCH more visually appealing.

Only question....does it increase the headband clamp? The SR207's are already quite tight on my skull to begin with, and take some getting used to when I switch back to them.


----------



## spacequeen7

Pahani said:


> Hey, now.....I like that a LOT! I've done the "Straw mod" to my 207's, but gotta admit it looks kinda fuggly like that. This method is MUCH more visually appealing.
> 
> Only question....does it increase the headband clamp? The SR207's are already quite tight on my skull to begin with, and take some getting used to when I switch back to them.


I have "alien" head myself ,matter of a fact is I couldn't fit  SR L300 LE at all !   ,  207 headband is way better and you can adjust it just like Sennheiser headband ,if you going to do this mod ,please use X-ACTO hobby knife and double-side Scotch clear mounting squares (removable )
I'm pretty sure I will do the same on L700's,if you need more air ,permanent squares are a bit thicker
Cheers
BTW,this mod shouldn't take more then half an hour


----------



## BoogieWoogie

Do you guys know any trustful diy guy in Europe to build a kgssshv?


----------



## Whitigir

BoogieWoogie said:


> Do you guys know any trustful diy guy in Europe to build a kgssshv?


The guy in your avatar look pretty trust worthy  ...jk...


----------



## pegasus21

BoogieWoogie said:


> Do you guys know any trustful diy guy in Europe to build a kgssshv?



One of the most noteworthy builder is located in Europe. You can check Mjolnir Audio


----------



## nazrin313 (Feb 25, 2019)

@soren_brix is a reputable builder. Seen awesome builds from him

Birgir aka mjolnir audio too


----------



## BoogieWoogie (Feb 25, 2019)

pegasus21 said:


> One of the most noteworthy builder is located in Europe. You can check Mjolnir Audio


Besides spritzer,  he lives in Iceland which has crazy import prices so it rockets his prices too ..plus it's outside of European union so an extra 23% import on my part..
Looking for something cheaper.


----------



## nazrin313

BoogieWoogie said:


> Besides spritzer,  he lives in Iceland which has crazy import prices so it rockets his prices, so looking for something cheaper.



Also you contact Phenomenon headphones, they can build KGSSHV Carbons for relatively affordable prices. Dont know about their reputation as builders thou, but at their prices..worth a try


----------



## JimL11

donpablo said:


> Brothers in headphones - I have a question.
> I see there are used Stax srd-7 amps quite cheaply sold across the net. I am curious of how that thing sound comparing to my entry level SRM-252s. Will it work with my sr-l300?



So the SRD-7 is not an amp, but an adapter, which is attached to the output of a speaker amp and uses a transformer to increase the voltage output to a level which is compatible with driving an electrostatic headphone (i.e. increasing volts to tens and hundreds of volts).

The SRD-7 also supplies the bias voltage to the headphones, which is why it plugs into an AC socket. However, with the exception of the SRD-7 Pro, all the adapter units were made for "normal" bias headphones using a bias voltage around 230VDC, which are all obsolete. All the modern Stax headphones are "Pro bias" which use 580VDC bias. The difference can be seen in the headphone plug - all the normal bias headphones have a 6 pin plug, all the Pro bias headphones including your SR-L300 have a 5 pin plug. If you are into DIY you can install a Pro bias circuit in an SRD-7 box and convert one or both of the sockets to pro bias. If you do that it is a good idea to block the center pin in the jack to prevent a normal bias headphone from being accidentally plugged into a Pro bias jack. It is perfectly safe to use a Pro bias headphone in a normal bias adapter but the result will be lower output and some decrease in sound quality.


----------



## Don Quichotte (Feb 26, 2019)

donpablo said:


> Brothers in headphones - I have a question.
> I see there are used Stax srd-7 amps quite cheaply sold across the net. I am curious of how that thing sound comparing to my entry level SRM-252s. Will it work with my sr-l300?


The sound depends to a certain degree on the amplifier you will use to drive the transformer box. In general it is said that the transformer box has the potential to sound more dynamic and with better bass punch, while the energizer (such as your SRM-252) will potentially sound more transparent, detailed and refined.
I haven't heard a transformer box, I'm just parroting what others have said around here plenty of times.


----------



## donpablo (Feb 26, 2019)

Don Quichotte said:


> The sound depends to a certain degree on the amplifier you will use to drive the transformer box. In general it is said that the transformer box has the potential to sound more dynamic and with better bass punch, while the energizer (such as your SRM-252) will potentially sound more transparent, detailed and refined.
> I haven't heard a transformer box, I'm just parroting what others have said around here plenty of times.



Thank you for answer. I also see there is Stax srd-7 PRO version. So I assume it would work with sr-l300?
If its not an amp so it should look like that: Laptop -> DAC -> Amp -> Srd-7 Pro -> sr-l300 yep?


----------



## pegasus21

I've heard a SRD-7 based set up before and it really depends a lot on your power amp. It definitely won't drive 007/009 properly. Far too little power. Loses the high frequencies and bass is loose. It'll probably fare better with the Lambda series but probably still require that your power amp be sufficient in output power.


----------



## sysfail

Has anyone here compared a L300 with L700 pads + headband vs L300 limited edition with L700 pads + headband? If so, is the limited edition worth double the price over the regular L300 if they both use L700 earpads and headband?


----------



## BoogieWoogie

nazrin313 said:


> Also you contact Phenomenon headphones, they can build KGSSHV Carbons for relatively affordable prices. Dont know about their reputation as builders thou, but at their prices..worth a try


Yeah it seems they do it at affordable price, now only need to assert the quality of the bulding and they can be trusted to not run with the money ?


----------



## donpablo

pegasus21 said:


> I've heard a SRD-7 based set up before and it really depends a lot on your power amp. It definitely won't drive 007/009 properly. Far too little power. Loses the high frequencies and bass is loose. It'll probably fare better with the Lambda series but probably still require that your power amp be sufficient in output power.


Not a problem I have Little Dot mk3 SE, it has enough power 

By the way, Ifi Itube 2 just arrived to my home and first listening is going on right now!! 
Change is very pleasing to me, and this little thing has many settings to play with.
So current setup is Laptop -> Aune S6 -> Ifi Itube 2 -> Stax SRM-252S -> modded Stax Sr-L300
Ifi added 'body' and impact to the sound (less/more according to different settings).
For fist time I have a feeling that maybe I catched the rabbit.


----------



## nazrin313

BoogieWoogie said:


> Yeah it seems they do it at affordable price, now only need to assert the quality of the bulding and they can be trusted to not run with the money ?


They do seem honest, probably MOT here too. Not sure, havent checked


----------



## buzzlulu

sysfail said:


> Has anyone here compared a L300 with L700 pads + headband vs L300 limited edition with L700 pads + headband? If so, is the limited edition worth double the price over the regular L300 if they both use L700 earpads and headband?



L300LE uses a different driver than the L300 with stair technology from the 009


----------



## sysfail

buzzlulu said:


> L300LE uses a different driver than the L300 with stair technology from the 009



Right, I've read that here. I was looking for more sound comparisons from people who had heard both specifically using the L700 pads.


----------



## weasel1979

Is there any information on when the new Stax Omega Version will be released? I saw an interview in which it was announced, is that known around here? Shall I link it here? Havent been following this thread lately.


----------



## donpablo

sysfail said:


> Right, I've read that here. I was looking for more sound comparisons from people who had heard both specifically using the L700 pads.


What you are lacking if you are looking for other pads? Maybe some home-made mods would help.


----------



## sysfail

donpablo said:


> What you are lacking if you are looking for other pads? Maybe some home-made mods would help.



Just curious of the sound difference and if it is worth the price jump over to the L300LE. I guess I'll wait to give a listen to the L300 + L700 pads first before deciding if an upgrade is even necessary or not. Maybe I'll end up loving the sound the way it is.


----------



## donpablo

sysfail said:


> Just curious of the sound difference and if it is worth the price jump over to the L300LE. I guess I'll wait to give a listen to the L300 + L700 pads first before deciding if an upgrade is even necessary or not. Maybe I'll end up loving the sound the way it is.



Do this first, reversible changes so you can always take it all off: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-1152#post-14799666


----------



## sysfail

donpablo said:


> Do this first, reversible changes so you can always take it all off: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-1152#post-14799666



Thanks, I'll look into that!


----------



## VRacer-111

donpablo said:


> Thank you for answer. I also see there is Stax srd-7 PRO version. So I assume it would work with sr-l300?
> If its not an amp so it should look like that: Laptop -> DAC -> Amp -> Srd-7 Pro -> sr-l300 yep?



Correct, the SRD-7/STAX would be the load for the amp like a speaker would be. As long as it's a PRO socket version it will be most excellent with a great amplifier. I think I prefer my Mjolnir Audio modded SRD-7/NAD C275BEE amp/RME ADI-2 DAC setup over a KGSSHV Carbon CC / Schiit Yggdrasil setup. Would need more time with a Carbon CC / Yggy setup to really know. Love the subbass/bass, punch, and full bodied sound, and detail and clarity I get from my setup.

For and SRD-7, a clean speaker amp with some watts behind it works very well, a Little Dot is probably not going to cut it...


----------



## hpeter (Feb 26, 2019)

donpablo said:


> Hello,
> 
> As I promised in the last post I will describe the mod that drastically increased the sound flowing from my new Stax SRS-3100 system.
> 
> ...



i wrote about correct seal mod here somewhere... (p900)

point is, too good or bad seal will make bass weak.
but if you tune correct amount of leak, then it will rock !
i used microfoam tape meant for making windows airtight.


----------



## donpablo (Feb 26, 2019)

hpeter said:


> i wrote about correct seal mod here somewhere... (p900)
> 
> point is, too good or bad seal will make bass weak.
> but if you tune correct amount of leak, then it will rock !
> i used microfoam tape meant for making windows airtight.



I'm super happy right now with the mods I described there, even better with Ifi Itube2 between Dac and Stax amp 

ps. I will try your advice to not seal it fully, but like you did it on the pictures (I found them on your profile) - maybe there will be differences - thank you


----------



## sysfail

Quick question regarding the "parallel out" on the Stax SRM-252S, going from PC > Schiit Modi DAC > SRM-252S > powered bookshelf speakers. If I usually leave my powered speakers on 24/7, will sound come out from both the Stax L300 connected to the SRM-252S AND the powered bookshelf speakers? Or does the signal get cut off to the speakers when the SRM-252S energizer is turned on and only sound will go to the L300? Which means sound will pass through the SRM-252S to the speakers only when the SRM-252S is turned off?

Some clarification would be great, thanks!


----------



## Pahani

sysfail said:


> Quick question regarding the "parallel out" on the Stax SRM-252S, going from PC > Schiit Modi DAC > SRM-252S > powered bookshelf speakers. If I usually leave my powered speakers on 24/7, will sound come out from both the Stax L300 connected to the SRM-252S AND the powered bookshelf speakers? Or does the signal get cut off to the speakers when the SRM-252S energizer is turned on and only sound will go to the L300? Which means sound will pass through the SRM-252S to the speakers only when the SRM-252S is turned off?
> 
> Some clarification would be great, thanks!



It's a straight pass-through. I pass the signal from my DAC *through* my Stax energizers first, and the chain ends at the amp for my Dynamic headphones. I can listen to my Dynamic headphones with my Stax amps off (as I'm doing at this moment). Or, if I switch on one of my 3 Stax amps, I can listen to (several, if I want) Stax along with my Dynamics.


----------



## sysfail

Pahani said:


> It's a straight pass-through. I pass the signal from my DAC *through* my Stax energizers first, and the chain ends at the amp for my Dynamic headphones. I can listen to my Dynamic headphones with my Stax amps off (as I'm doing at this moment). Or, if I switch on one of my 3 Stax amps, I can listen to (several, if I want) Stax along with my Dynamics.



Thanks for the clarification. So for my setup, this basically means if I were to leave my powered speakers on with the volume up, music would play through my Stax L300 and my speakers simultaneously. Looks like I'll just have to turn down the volume down on the speakers if I want to listen through the Stax only.


----------



## donpablo

May anyone describe the differences in sound between Stax SRM-252S and SRM-XH? 
I'm wondering whether XH would be better for my Sr-l300 earspeakers.

Thank you in advance.


----------



## ahmedie (Mar 2, 2019)

donpablo said:


> I'm super happy right now with the mods I described there, even better with Ifi Itube2 between Dac and Stax amp
> 
> ps. I will try your advice to not seal it fully, but like you did it on the pictures (I found them on your profile) - maybe there will be differences - thank you


I agree l300limited and l700 benefit greatly from a tube buffer / or tub amp / as it tame the upper mid or lower treble and slow / increase bass (better bass effect) and refine the treble while also adding depth to the soundstage which lambda lacks, i recommend FX Audio TUBE-01 for starter to see what you get from a tube buffer for only 30$, I prefer the sound with fx audio by miles.


----------



## donpablo (Mar 2, 2019)

ahmedie said:


> I agree l300limited and l700 benefit greatly from a tube buffer / or tub amp / as it tame the upper mid or lower treble and slow / increase bass (better bass effect) and refine the treble while also adding depth to the soundstage which lambda lacks, i recommend FX Audio TUBE-01 for starter to see what you get from a tube buffer for only 30$, I prefer the sound with fx audio by miles.


Yep iFi's iTube2 makes very pleasant changes  Also adds bass if you need much more of it (xBass+ system).
Btw it makes sound fuller across all ranges, so bass is also extended without using xBass+ switch.
But for a bassheads that also want cristal clear holography and details, iFi's tube buffer is a magic tool! xBass+ on 12dB and they will have a brain massage


----------



## -HaVoC-Tzu-

Whitigir said:


> That is an awesome respond, I love it whenever people disagree with me.  We dont have to agree on everything, and that is what making the world insteresting


My disagreement with some hipsters at the adjacent breakfast table saying their digital guitar amp felt analog is what sparked my interest in HiFi Analog and Digital.
Being an a tech guy, someone saying analog is digital or vice-versa is like nails on a chalkboard.
Now that I have high-end gear, I can say that if you have good enough digital gear, it 'feels' as good as high-end analog..... buuuuut it will never be analog, and vice-versa.


----------



## Whitigir

-HaVoC-Tzu- said:


> My disagreement with some hipsters at the adjacent breakfast table saying their digital guitar amp felt analog is what sparked my interest in HiFi Analog and Digital.
> Being an a tech guy, someone saying analog is digital or vice-versa is like nails on a chalkboard.
> Now that I have high-end gear, I can say that if you have good enough digital gear, it 'feels' as good as high-end analog..... buuuuut it will never be analog, and vice-versa.



I totally agree with you there, Analog is analog, and digital is digital.  Each of them have a pros and cons, but only if you have a very very revealing high end speakers/heapdhones/amps, you will observe it.  Otherwise, it is all about as confusing as confusion can get.


----------



## PointyFox

Digital gear always outputs analog.


----------



## Whitigir

We are talking about the mediums, analog, or digital


----------



## 336881

tigon_ridge said:


> Don't Spritzer's DIY kgsshv parts go for around $750 total? The BOM parts would add around another $300, right? Pretty sure the 727, even used, costs more than that.



Either way it does not make much sense to go after people who offer their hard work for free. I had to correct someone else who did not care for the price of the Pinnacle Ultra 2 recently.

K.G. and Pete along with Stax and classic Sennheiser are pretty impossible to beat regardless of what you spend.

At the same time I completely get where the posters are coming from and I think a few commercial headphone amp builders suck as well.


----------



## donpablo

donpablo said:


> May anyone describe the differences in sound between Stax SRM-252S and SRM-XH?
> I'm wondering whether XH would be better for my Sr-l300 earspeakers.
> 
> Thank you in advance.



May someone refer to my question? What are differences between Stax SRM-252S and SRM-XH (in sound)?


----------



## VRacer-111 (Mar 5, 2019)

What newer Lambda sounds the closest to the 404 Limited...SR-507? Left driver is no longer functioning in any meaningful capacity at all on my 'new' 404 Limiteds... Listening to my L300 Limiteds and missing what the 404 Limited did already, though the L300 Limiteds are very nice - just not 404 Limited special. Will be modded the L300's to give them a better seal between pads and housing. Maybe the Kaldas RR1 will be something special though and be a 404 Limited equivalent replacement...seems to have great subbass measurements.


----------



## Mach3 (Mar 5, 2019)

I'm certain that a lot more people prefer the 404 LE over the 507 and that I read some where the SR-007 is the next best thing over the 404 LE.
I own both the 507 and 2 version of SR-007 MK1 and I prefer the SR-007 over the 507 by a large margin.


----------



## vr1

Mach3 said:


> I'm certain that a lot more people prefer the 404 LE over the 507 and that I read some where the SR-007 is the next best thing over the 404 LE.
> I own both the 507 and 2 version of SR-007 MK1 and I prefer the SR-007 over the 507 by a large margin.



I am another one who prefer SR-404 (Signature) over SR- 507. I found SR-404 give more natural sound than SR-507 and the bass on SR-507 is too bloat for me.


----------



## BoogieWoogie

The search for an affordable kgssshv has been impossible so I may ask you if an 717/727II can drive the 007 well enough or that's a no and better be patient until can afford one ?

Also what is the concensus on the lambda, is the L-700 better than older lamda models?


----------



## Pahani

BoogieWoogie said:


> Also what is the concensus on the lambda, is the L-700 better than older lamda models?



I only own 2 Stax models, so can only offer that comparison. Compared to my SR-207, yes, L700 is definitely better.


----------



## Mach3

BoogieWoogie said:


> The search for an affordable kgssshv has been impossible so I may ask you if an 717/727II can drive the 007 well enough or that's a no and better be patient until can afford one ?
> 
> Also what is the concensus on the lambda, is the L-700 better than older lamda models?


I don't have the 717 or the 727II, but my SRM-T1X variant with the CSS mod from JimL11 drivers the 007 pretty well. I can't complain that's for sure.
Please avoid the SRM-T8000, I had a long listen to them over in japan late last year. I agree with the Stax Mafia, you're better off with SRM-007A or 727II with global feedback mod.


----------



## 336881

VRacer-111 said:


> What newer Lambda sounds the closest to the 404 Limited...SR-507? Left driver is no longer functioning in any meaningful capacity at all on my 'new' 404 Limiteds... Listening to my L300 Limiteds and missing what the 404 Limited did already, though the L300 Limiteds are very nice - just not 404 Limited special. Will be modded the L300's to give them a better seal between pads and housing. Maybe the Kaldas RR1 will be something special though and be a 404 Limited equivalent replacement...seems to have great subbass measurements.



Airbow sr-sc1, 11, and 21. If they are still around.


----------



## catscratch

donpablo said:


> May someone refer to my question? What are differences between Stax SRM-252S and SRM-XH (in sound)?



The SRM-Xh is pretty rare, and honestly I don't know if you'll be able to find too many people who have heard both.


----------



## donpablo

catscratch said:


> The SRM-Xh is pretty rare, and honestly I don't know if you'll be able to find too many people who have heard both.


Thank you, even for such an answer  
Maybe someone that heard both of them will hear my moans


----------



## ahmedie (Mar 6, 2019)

VRacer-111 said:


> What newer Lambda sounds the closest to the 404 Limited...SR-507? Left driver is no longer functioning in any meaningful capacity at all on my 'new' 404 Limiteds... Listening to my L300 Limiteds and missing what the 404 Limited did already, though the L300 Limiteds are very nice - just not 404 Limited special. Will be modded the L300's to give them a better seal between pads and housing. Maybe the Kaldas RR1 will be something special though and be a 404 Limited equivalent replacement...seems to have great subbass measurements.


Why dont you send them to stax headquarters？they gonna fix it
https://stax.co.jp/support/repair/
I check the site and it says 404 limited can be fixed depend on parts availability ■＝代替部品による修理 should u give it a shot ?


----------



## ahmedie

Found this for older stax lamda ( 404 and Sr-3 etc. ) Stax ED-1 and ED-5 EQs emulation below
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-ed-1-and-ed-5-eqs-emulation.675545/


----------



## paradoxper

weasel1979 said:


> Is there any information on when the new Stax Omega Version will be released? I saw an interview in which it was announced, is that known around here? Shall I link it here? Havent been following this thread lately.


Shut your dirty mouth!

Bad time to come back with some casual reading.


----------



## Dan Lee

Hey guys not trying to interupt the focus of the conversation here, but I just recently recieved my new 009's and have a carbon on the way.  My question is do I need to keep the 009's covered when not in use or is that a myth?  I cant seem to find anything out about it.


----------



## protoss

Dan Lee said:


> do I need to keep the 009's covered



Yes, cover all electrostatics! With a bag, shopping bag if you dont have a staxs bag, use anything to cover all electrostatics! It should be rule #1. Dust inside drivers = dead drivers


----------



## HoloSpice

Or just put it in the paulownia box to keep dust and moisture out.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 11, 2019)

This is when not in use.

No, it is not a myth, it is a fact

Even if you buy used unit, you should have asked how the Stax were placed and cared for

No direct sun light, pet-free, non-smoking environment, temp-controlled and humidity controlled room....etc...


----------



## JimL11

protoss said:


> Yes, cover all electrostatics! With a bag, shopping bag if you dont have a staxs bag, use anything to cover all electrostatics! It should be rule #1. Dust inside drivers = dead drivers



AFAIK, all Stax drivers have dust covers to prevent dust from reaching the drivers, so as long as the dust covers are intact the drivers should be safe. I have a pair of Stax SR-5s that have sat out in the open since I bought them in the 1980s, they still work fine. That said, it doesn't hurt to cover them, or put them back in their box when not in use. It helps to not smoke and not bring them into your wood-working shop.


----------



## protoss

@JimL11 
I vacuum my house near my gear. or dust the surrounding, pillow dusting etch...And I see trillions of dust floating around. Those dust covers just wont cut it for me. I be too paranoid


----------



## bearwarrior

Whitigir said:


> This is when not in use.
> 
> No, it is not a myth, it is a fact
> 
> ...


 
Cover the vinyl as well.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 11, 2019)

bearwarrior said:


> Cover the vinyl as well.


Yes, I do, just not when it is playing 

I have a weird way of thinking....things gotta be right and feel right...you can even see the brush to clean LP before the needles is down, and next to it is a needles cleaning gel.  So it goes like...
1/ turn the vinyl, brush it a few times
2/ clean the needles
3/ plays
4/ repeats every new LP or side turning 
Some people called it a ritual....yeah, for sure..feel like it...hahahaha


----------



## JimL11

protoss said:


> @JimL11
> I vacuum my house near my gear. or dust the surrounding, pillow dusting etch...And I see trillions of dust floating around. Those dust covers just wont cut it for me. I be too paranoid



Well, you know what they say: Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.


----------



## HoloSpice

protoss said:


> @JimL11
> I vacuum my house near my gear. or dust the surrounding, pillow dusting etch...And I see trillions of dust floating around. Those dust covers just wont cut it for me. I be too paranoid


You should get this it might help

https://www.amazon.ca/Honeywell-HPA...ocphy=9001538&hvtargid=pla-569360202702&psc=1


----------



## VandyMan (Mar 12, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> This is when not in use.
> 
> No, it is not a myth, it is a fact
> 
> ...



I don't cover mine. Never had a problem. And my apartment is definitely not smoke free or temp/humidity controlled (it has two controls: too hot and too cold). In fact, I smoke while wearing my 009s all the time.


----------



## Dan Lee

well thank you all for clearing that up for me.  I appreciate all the answers


----------



## VandyMan (Mar 12, 2019)

I should add that I don't live in a humid area, but it appears you do. So Whitigir's advice about humidity control may make sense for you. I have seen reports of issues with electrostatic headphones in very humid environments, like South East Asia. (I'd imagine that very high humidity is not good for conventional headphones either, so this is not really stat specific.)


----------



## Mach3

I'm using these at the moment.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/41cm-Di...bly-Plastic-Protection-Dustproof/321682058079


----------



## Dan Lee

I actually thought about using something along those lines.  Do you use a headphone stand inside the case or just set them inside?


----------



## Mach3

Dan Lee said:


> I actually thought about using something along those lines.  Do you use a headphone stand inside the case or just set them inside?



Yeah I throw the Stax stand in there too.


----------



## Mystel (Mar 13, 2019)

I live in Singapore, which is pretty damn humid
There was this period of time when i took a break from headfi for 6 months, and forgot to cover my staxes. I just left them there in a dusty corner
After 6 months, i finally took them out , and found that lots of dust have accumulated on the headband, and i wanted to kill myself for messing up big time
However i fired them up again and they are still fine somehow

Of course, this is a huge mistake on my part, and im lucky that nothing bad happened. It was very idiotic of me, and i wouldn't recommend anyone to take the same risk that i did ( albeit unintentionally )
But my point is, i find the staxes extremely durable and reliable. Its not really the kind of stuff that are extremely fragile, or will fail out of nowhere if you do not take extreme care. Ive had much worse experiences with the reliability of some audeze cans, and the utopia.

Anyway ive been keeping them inside the stax dust covers since coming back to headfi, don't wanna gamble again


----------



## Whitigir

Mystel said:


> I live in Singapore, which is pretty damn humid
> There was this period of time when i took a break from headfi for 6 months, and forgot to cover my staxes. I just left them there in a dusty corner
> After 6 months, i finally took them out , and found that lots of dust have accumulated on the headband, and i wanted to kill myself for messing up big time
> However i fired them up again and they are still fine somehow
> ...


Woaaa, you are lucky! In fact, I think, instead of winning a lottery, all your lucks have gone to this incident to prevent arcing that May fry your brain, and damaging the headphones , and everything else...lol


----------



## Dan Lee

Mach3 said:


> Yeah I throw the Stax stand in there too.


Thank you my friend I believe that will be the direction that I go.


----------



## Trance_Gott

I'm searching the closed back Stax 4070. If someone want to sell them please PM me.


----------



## JimL11

VandyMan said:


> In fact, I smoke while wearing my 009s all the time.



Not a good idea to combine two vices at the same time.  As a retired oncologist (cancer doctor), I suggest you stop smoking - but you probably already know that.


----------



## VandyMan (Mar 13, 2019)

JimL11 said:


> Not a good idea to combine two vices at the same time.  As a retired oncologist (cancer doctor), I suggest you stop smoking - but you probably already know that.



I don't smoke tobacco. Appreciate the concern though.


----------



## BoogieWoogie

Whitigir said:


> Woaaa, you are lucky! In fact, I think, instead of winning a lottery, all your lucks have gone to this incident to prevent arcing that May fry your brain, and damaging the headphones , and everything else...lol


could you be exaggerating ?

Taken from the other forum :

"That's exaggerating things somewhat, I live in Malaysia and my Staxen are quite alive.

I prefer to have the A/C on when I'm listening to electrostats, but that has more to do with my personal comfort than anything else.

Also, I remember Spritzer mentioning that Stax's modern headphones could tolerate bias voltages up to 1KV or more (based on driver spacing), so changes in humidity aren't enough to cause dielectric breakdown (arcing). The bias supplies (in Stax amplifiers at least) also have ballast resistors to limit current.
"


----------



## di_andrei

I'm looking to replace the head pad / head band on my SR-007 (mark 1), the band is getting a little loose and the pad has seen better days.  Has anyone seen any for sale recently?


----------



## Scgorg

I know electromod used to stock them, their website is currently going through updates but you could try sending them a message.


----------



## VandyMan

di_andrei said:


> I'm looking to replace the head pad / head band on my SR-007 (mark 1), the band is getting a little loose and the pad has seen better days.  Has anyone seen any for sale recently?



https://staxaudio.com/parts


----------



## Dan Lee

Just for curiosity sake and the fact this is likely the best place to ask this question.  Has anyone reading this heard either the SR-009 or SR-L700 or both on the ifi iESL?  If yes to any I would love to hear your thoughts.  If both I would love to hear how you believe they compare cause as far as I can tell through the iESL they sound very similar and in a few situations I would give the L700 the edge.

All that being said I am sure this has been beaten to death, but when people say the SR-009 is only truly heard at its potential when paired with a high end amp is this really true.  I just invested in a KGSSHV Carbon and am waiting for it to come in.  Is this difference night and day or just marginally better?  Im over here thinkin I may have blown $3500 on some cans when $1500 would have done and another $3000+ on an awesome amp.  Just guess I am looking for the opinions of those that have heard these through both lesser quality amps and higher and have some insight and comfort to offer.


----------



## buzzlulu

I started playing with Stax last Spring - my experience:

009S on 353X vs. Mjolinir Carbon
NIGHT and DAY

353LE (L700 drivers) vs. 009S
NIGHT and DAY

009S / Mjolinir Carbon vs. my Utopia
NIGHT and DAY


----------



## BoogieWoogie

buzzlulu said:


> I started playing with Stax last Spring - my experience:
> 
> 009S on 353X vs. Mjolinir Carbon
> NIGHT and DAY
> ...


L700 it's nota L300LE


----------



## buzzlulu

Never said it was

From Stax website:
"It features "MLER" ellipse sound element equivalent to Lamda top series models"


----------



## BoogieWoogie

buzzlulu said:


> Never said it was
> 
> From Stax website:
> "It features "MLER" ellipse sound element equivalent to Lamda top series models"


That translates to what


----------



## buzzlulu

That's their translation - not mine.
Make of it what you want


----------



## Dan Lee

Very nice thank you for that.  I look forward to getting my Carbon then.  I have the Focal Utopias as well.  I find they are great headphones as well and the dynamics and tonality they present are fantastic.  I still love my LCD-4s as well, but there is just something about these stax headphones I just cant quite help but be overwhelmed by.  Ive heard people say they think they sound weird or off in some way and all i can think is they musta just ran through some shooting practice without hearing protection cause the only way these sound off is in the way they just sound god damn perfect and I havent even heard them through a TOTL amp yet.


----------



## jbrownson

Dan Lee said:


> Very nice thank you for that.  I look forward to getting my Carbon then.  I have the Focal Utopias as well.  I find they are great headphones as well and the dynamics and tonality they present are fantastic.  I still love my LCD-4s as well, but there is just something about these stax headphones I just cant quite help but be overwhelmed by.  Ive heard people say they think they sound weird or off in some way and all i can think is they musta just ran through some shooting practice without hearing protection cause the only way these sound off is in the way they just sound god damn perfect and I havent even heard them through a TOTL amp yet.


You’re going to love the Carbon


----------



## Dan Lee

Awesome man thank you guys.  I cant bloody wait.


----------



## di_andrei

VandyMan said:


> https://staxaudio.com/parts



https://staxaudio.com/headpad/stax-sr-007mk2-headpad

Looks like they only have the mk2 - I'm probably ok with the lack of color coordination, but are they otherwise compatible with the mk1?


----------



## walakalulu

I’ve heard the 009S through the top Stax (not bad at all), then a KGST (shows that Stax isn’t so great after all) and finally a KGGG (woweee!) The fact is the cans scale up to new levels as amp quality improves. Better cables between source and amp also help.


----------



## astrostar59

walakalulu said:


> I’ve heard the 009S through the top Stax (not bad at all), then a KGST (shows that Stax isn’t so great after all) and finally a KGGG (woweee!) The fact is the cans scale up to new levels as amp quality improves. Better cables between source and amp also help.



Indeed, but so do the Abyss, LCD4 and Susvara. Top level HPs need top level amp and sources IMO.


----------



## PointyFox (Mar 19, 2019)

IMO they don't. I had a LCD-4 which was pretty disappointing so I kept getting better DACs/amps for it, but it always sounded the same. Went from a Schiit stack ($200) up to a top tier Violectric stack ($4000). I also heard the SR009S on the SRM-D50 vs BHSE and KGSS and it sounded the same on all three to me. I've been slowly getting rid of my expensive DACs/amps in favor of cheaper ones with better specs.


----------



## astrostar59

PointyFox said:


> IMO they don't. I had a LCD-4 which was pretty disappointing so I kept getting better DACs/amps for it, but it always sounded the same. Went from a Schiit stack ($200) up to a top tier Violectric stack ($4000). I also heard the SR009S on the SRM-D50 vs BHSE and KGSS and it sounded the same on all three to me. I've been slowly getting rid of my expensive DACs/amps in favor of cheaper ones with better specs.



Think you are swimming against the tide...


----------



## HoloSpice

Lol his source inventory is the problem


----------



## bluesaint

if everything sounds the same, then maybe the issue is with how he hear things?  or the music source itself?


----------



## HoloSpice

bluesaint said:


> if everything sounds the same, then maybe the issue is with how he hear things?  or the music source itself?


Lol!  Garbage in garbage out.  The Sr-009S isn't going to sing with that kind of setup.


----------



## astrostar59

HoloSpice said:


> Lol!  Garbage in garbage out.  The Sr-009S isn't going to sing with that kind of setup.


Actually the higher you go with Stax HPs, the more demanding they are on the source, it simply highlights the problems. Many folk think all DACs sound that same, no true....


----------



## astrostar59

PointyFox said:


> IMO they don't. I had a LCD-4 which was pretty disappointing so I kept getting better DACs/amps for it, but it always sounded the same. Went from a Schiit stack ($200) up to a top tier Violectric stack ($4000). I also heard the SR009S on the SRM-D50 vs BHSE and KGSS and it sounded the same on all three to me. I've been slowly getting rid of my expensive DACs/amps in favor of cheaper ones with better specs.


PointyFox, I think we have had this discussion before? I would say the Stax SR009 is along the lines of a 20K+ speaker, probably better. To get the best from it you really do need a top DAC, smooth, dynamic, good treble control. Otherwise you are in for problems that the 009 will only magnify, not 'fix' or sound better. Generally DACs start to sound much better after you get beyond the 3K price barrier. There isn't any 'giant killers' in the sub 1K bracket IMO, not when you hear what a good DAC can really do. I would say look at a starting point of the Halo Spring DAC, and work up from there. TotalDAC are good (lower priced units) and can come up used. The Lampizator Atlantic is good if you can hack tubes. I would try go for R2R and avoid DS DACs, and I do prefer tube output myself.

Good luck. BTW, the DAC in the Violectric 800 is BAD. The V281 amp is GOOD.


----------



## HoloSpice

"All dacs sound the same"

HELL no! Thats BS LOL 

These guys aren't playing the high-end game right for sure. They're so eager to jump onto the higher end Stax model without realizing the cost to run these things to ther utmost full potential. Then come on here to complain about how they're lacking bass or artificial sounding. Come on people,  running them on half ass gear isn't going to get you that world class sound quality.


----------



## buzzlulu

HoloSpice said:


> "All dacs sound the same"
> 
> HELL no! Thats BS LOL
> 
> These guys aren't playing the high-end game right for sure. They're so eager to jump onto the higher end Stax model without realizing the cost to run these things to ther utmost full potential. Then come on here to complain about how they're lacking bass or artificial sounding. Come on people,  running them on half ass gear isn't going to get you that world class sound quality.



As someone whose primary listening is in high end 2 channel it is so refreshing to read the above post.  It just seems that so many on Headfi do not understand the simple facts of system building.

It all starts with THE SOURCE.  If your DAC, record player etc. cannot get all of the music off and out of the grooves (to use a vinyl record analogy) then it does not matter how good your amplifier is or how good your headphones are.  YOU ARE NOT GETTING ALL OF THE MUSIC - an inferior DAC or record player has left some of it behind!

Listen to a L300 run off a DAVE
Listen to a 009 run off a Mojo

I bet the L300 will sound better.  Why - because the DAVE is getting more of the music off of the files.  The Mojo is simply not


----------



## HoloSpice

buzzlulu said:


> As someone whose primary listening is in high end 2 channel it is so refreshing to read the above post.  It just seems that so many on Headfi do not understand the simple facts of system building.
> 
> It all starts with THE SOURCE.  If your DAC, record player etc. cannot get all of the music off and out of the grooves (to use a vinyl record analogy) then it does not matter how good your amplifier is or how good your headphones are.  YOU ARE NOT GETTING ALL OF THE MUSIC - an inferior DAC or record player has left some of it behind!
> 
> ...


exactly! I see alot of 009s being put up for sale during these past few months. Alot of these peeps are driving them with inadequate gear. 

Point is if you want to play the high-end STAX game then you gotta play it HARD! No bottlenecking your system.


----------



## tumpux

buzzlulu said:


> Listen to a L300 run off a DAVE
> Listen to a 009 run off a Mojo
> 
> I bet the L300 will sound better.



Now, this is an exaggeration..


----------



## PointyFox (Mar 20, 2019)

I did the comparisons at CanJam. I don't remember the source. It was at the HeadAmp booth. Also I've never heard of the Law of Increasing Returns. "DACs start sounding better after $3000"? What?

I've heard all this top end stuff and there's no difference between any of it, just the headphones.  My modded SR007A on a SRM-50D can beat any dynamic setup in sound quality including the SR009S with any of the most expensive source components out there.


----------



## walakalulu

Interconnects between dac and energiser also need attention imho. They do pass the signal after all.


----------



## tumpux

and dont forget the electricity.. you never hear dire straits correctly until you hear them through a of clean, pure current.

or may be not.


----------



## buzzlulu

Interconnects - CHECK
Electricity - CHECK

PointyFox - you are simply wrong.

I guess everyone in 2 channel land who have systems with sources running from $5k-$25k are just stupid and throwing their money away?  Doesn't make a difference?  Its just the "speakers" (headphones)

You also said "I've heard all this top end stuff and there's no difference between any of it, just the headphones"
So I guess we all should just use the cheapest Stax energizer and forget wasting our money on all of the KG amplifiers, Blue Hawaii etc. ???
Come on - its just the headphones


----------



## -HaVoC-Tzu-

It is a bit mind-boggling how some people don’t notice a difference when high-end / low-end gear is switched out, but perhaps he is right.

Maybe he can’t hear a difference.
Maybe that’s the sort of reason people have chosen sides in this discussion and turned it into an arguement.
At that point, once he has fortified his position, the only thing that can change, or further fortify his opinion, is more experience with low-end vs high-end gear, as opposed to comments from random people on the internet with differing opinions and more experience.


----------



## PointyFox (Mar 20, 2019)

-HaVoC-Tzu- said:


> It is a bit mind-boggling how some people don’t notice a difference when high-end / low-end gear is switched out, but perhaps he is right.
> 
> Maybe he can’t hear a difference.
> Maybe that’s the sort of reason people have chosen sides in this discussion and turned it into an arguement.
> At that point, once he has fortified his position, the only thing that can change, or further fortify his opinion, is more experience with low-end vs high-end gear, as opposed to comments from random people on the internet with differing opinions and more experience.



I believe the complete opposite is true. It is I who has "more experience". And yes, I believe there are many fools out there with more money than sense.

Being snarky may make you feel better, but it doesn't change my stance.


----------



## -HaVoC-Tzu-

Oh?

“*Current sources: *Stax SRM-D50 / Schiit Jotunheim / Grace SDAC / HiFace TWO / Topping D50 / JDS Labs Atom”


----------



## PointyFox

-HaVoC-Tzu- said:


> Oh?
> 
> “*Current sources: *Stax SRM-D50 / Schiit Jotunheim / Grace SDAC / HiFace TWO / Topping D50 / JDS Labs Atom”



Yes, I currently own some of the best measuring DACs. I sold off the poor value boutique stuff that didn't offer any real world improvements. In fact, the Violectric V281 was one of the poorest amps I've tested in terms of noise. I'm impressed that most audiophiles can't detect it. What are your sources, oh mighty "golden-eared" one?


----------



## -HaVoC-Tzu-

PointyFox said:


> Yes, I currently own some of the best measuring DACs. I sold off the poor value boutique stuff that didn't offer any real world improvements. In fact, the Violectric V281 was one of the poorest amps I've tested in terms of noise. I'm impressed that most audiophiles can't detect it. What are your sources, oh mighty "golden-eared" one?



You can check for yourself.


----------



## Sound Eq

any suggested mods to stax 307 headphone coupled with srm 323s


----------



## PointyFox

-HaVoC-Tzu- said:


> You can check for yourself.



I think I've been trolled. I just see a cheap tube amp and some SoundBlaster stuff.


----------



## georgep

PointyFox said:


> Yes, I currently own some of the best measuring DACs. I sold off the poor value boutique stuff that didn't offer any real world improvements. In fact,* the Violectric V281 was one of the poorest amps I've tested in terms of noise*. I'm impressed that most audiophiles can't detect it. What are your sources, oh mighty "golden-eared" one?



Not taking any sides in this debate, but one observation I have made in watching people debate these sorts of things over the years is that some people like sources/amps/headphones that add more/different noise or distortion to the original recording. Not saying my observation is in any way related to the differences of opinion going on at the moment, or that any of the gear mentioned does any of that. Just thought it was interesting that one member identified the V281 as poor in terms of noise, while another member described it as a good amp (I have never heard it so have no view).


----------



## -HaVoC-Tzu-

georgep said:


> Not taking any sides in this debate, but one observation I have made in watching people debate these sorts of things over the years is that some people like sources/amps/headphones that add more/different noise or distortion to the original recording. Not saying my observation is in any way related to the differences of opinion going on at the moment, or that any of the gear mentioned does any of that. Just thought it was interesting that one member identified the V281 as poor in terms of noise, while another member described it as a good amp (I have never heard it so have no view).



Not sure why everyone wants to debate all the time.  That was exactly my point.  Funny that he is still trying to debate.


----------



## PointyFox

-HaVoC-Tzu- said:


> Not sure why everyone wants to debate all the time.  That was exactly my point.  Funny that he is still trying to debate.



Yeah, my point has been proven many times.


----------



## -HaVoC-Tzu-

PointyFox said:


> Yeah, my point has been proven many times.


Cool man


----------



## franz12

astrostar59 said:


> PointyFox, I think we have had this discussion before? I would say the Stax SR009 is along the lines of a 20K+ speaker, probably better. To get the best from it you really do need a top DAC, smooth, dynamic, good treble control. Otherwise you are in for problems that the 009 will only magnify, not 'fix' or sound better. Generally DACs start to sound much better after you get beyond the 3K price barrier. There isn't any 'giant killers' in the sub 1K bracket IMO, not when you hear what a good DAC can really do. I would say look at a starting point of the Halo Spring DAC, and work up from there. TotalDAC are good (lower priced units) and can come up used. The Lampizator Atlantic is good if you can hack tubes. I would try go for R2R and avoid DS DACs, and I do prefer tube output myself.
> 
> Good luck. BTW, the DAC in the Violectric 800 is BAD. The V281 amp is GOOD.



Interesting. What do you think about Hugo 2 or Hugo 2 TT compared to something like holo spring l3 or yggdrasil 2?


----------



## FangJoker

buzzlulu said:


> As someone whose primary listening is in high end 2 channel it is so refreshing to read the above post.  It just seems that so many on Headfi do not understand the simple facts of system building.
> 
> It all starts with THE SOURCE.  If your DAC, record player etc. cannot get all of the music off and out of the grooves (to use a vinyl record analogy) then it does not matter how good your amplifier is or how good your headphones are.  YOU ARE NOT GETTING ALL OF THE MUSIC - an inferior DAC or record player has left some of it behind!
> 
> ...




I've noticed that quite a bit of people will spend a lot on a totl headphones, but will run it through a cheap schitt stack or whatever they found on massdrop. It's ok if you're using it with entry level crap like the hd650, but not with headphones costing $2k and above. It just doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## arnaud

FangJoker said:


> ... entry level crap like the hd650, but not with headphones costing $2k and above.



Wow, times have changed... let me guess, you weren’t born when this headphone was released, correct?


----------



## FangJoker

arnaud said:


> Wow, times have changed... let me guess, you weren’t born when this headphone was released, correct?



I'll guess that I've been using some sort of headphones for at least 10 more years than you


----------



## georgep

arnaud said:


> Wow, times have changed... let me guess, you weren’t born when this headphone was released, correct?



Was thinking the same thing and how perspectives are so different depending upon ones entry into high end headphones. I still have my hd650 as well as my multiple stax 007 and 009, and I like the hd650 quite a bit (sold my LCD-2 a long time ago, but kept my hd650)


----------



## -HaVoC-Tzu- (Mar 21, 2019)

The HD650 I don’t even wear any more other than to compare it with something for someone else.  
They are pretty bad comparatively speaking.  
The HD 600 was the first headphone I wanted but couldn’t afford back in the 90’s.


----------



## astrostar59

buzzlulu said:


> Interconnects - CHECK
> Electricity - CHECK
> 
> PointyFox - you are simply wrong.
> ...



I agree. It a bit like saying I got the top engine so the car is superb. Try slinging a Nissan Duke around a corner flat out with a porsche engine it it then. see what happens.... maybe if you listen at microscopic level, you may not notice?


----------



## tumpux

-HaVoC-Tzu- said:


> The HD 600 was the first headphone I wanted but couldn’t afford back in the 90’s



I’ll one up you on this..
I didn’t even know about HD 600 back in the 90s. I was happy listening to a third gen copy of dead kennedys tape in my mini compo.


----------



## HoloSpice

FangJoker said:


> I've noticed that quite a bit of people will spend a lot on a totl headphones, but will run it through a cheap schitt stack or whatever they found on massdrop. It's ok if you're using it with entry level crap like the hd650, but not with headphones costing $2k and above. It just doesn't make sense to me.


So true...  gotta be part of the cool kids club ya know?


----------



## Sound Eq

hello everyone can i ask which amp suits stax 007_O2mk1, or does it only sound great with super expensive amps like bhse
_


----------



## PointyFox

DACs have pretty much been the same since the 80s. Not sure why anyone would need an


Sound Eq said:


> hello everyone can i ask which amp suits stax 007_O2mk1, or does it only sound great with super expensive amps like bhse_



I have a SRM-D50 that sounds just as good as the highest end amps to me.


----------



## protoss

@PointyFox 

Watch out. You going to get in trouble from people who has money. And say 5K dac is entry level and you need a 10K T2 as a bare minimum to listen to 19th century classical music!


----------



## Sound Eq

PointyFox said:


> DACs have pretty much been the same since the 80s. Not sure why anyone would need an
> 
> 
> I have a SRM-D50 that sounds just as good as the highest end amps to me.


and how much would the cost of a used amp like that be


----------



## protoss

Sound Eq said:


> and how much would the cost of a used amp like that be



$1200 . This is a Amp/Dac combo
https://staxaudio.com/driver/stax-srm-d50


----------



## Sound Eq

protoss said:


> $1200 . This is a Amp/Dac combo
> https://staxaudio.com/driver/stax-srm-d50


thats reasonably priced


----------



## protoss

Sound Eq said:


> thats reasonably priced



Yea man. This is pretty good. Staxs are great at making dacs also. It is awsome that they bought back DAC device's into their line ups again!

Pick that up and dont come back to this thread lol. If you do, next posting will all be about 10K dacs and a 10K minimum amp you need. Save yourself now!


----------



## Pahani (Mar 22, 2019)

Oh, some people have different priorities is all, I think. I already had a setup better than most people will ever dream of in my L700 + 353X. I could have spent a lot of money chasing a little bit more......

But in my case, I decided to spend that $5K on twin subwoofers for my Home Theater instead  I think I made the right choice for my own personal overall enjoyment level. Knocking things off my kitchen counter 2 rooms away is fun! And if you've never experienced sub-20Hz bass at a good level........well, it will completely change your movie experience. Not by a little bit, either. By a LOT.

If I had unlimited money, sure......I could chase "the best" in each of the myriad hobbies I seem to pick up. But yeah, not realistic for me.


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 22, 2019)

People spend money according to their needs and desires

It is not that we all would like to toss the 10K amp and or DAC into the chain to recommend people for enjoying the Stax, it is that many people who claimed to be “audiophiles” often is mistaken about claiming that Stax has “no bass”.  That is wrong, Stax is capable of so much bass that it can blow your brain off, but *that will need 10k Amp and 10k DAC ?
*
I am not saying that the Audiophiles is wrong, I am saying that they have not used the right systems.  I am so confident that if they could have listened to Stax and a proper setup, those claims would be tossed out of the windows.  This had been proven over and over and over again.

Therefore, instead of busting the “Stax has no bass” myth, by only saying that “it is a myth”.  We simply stating the fact that, if you *could not hear/audition/tried out the best of Stax $10k amp or DAC, you are not hearing Stax system, so *_*stop spreading that myth.*_  Does that make any sense ?

Stax system is very different than Dynamic headphones.  I already stated, dynamic heapdhones has the magnetism mechanism to drive the driver, it only need signals input to make sound.  Stax driving mechanism is the charged Bias or energized line.  That is all coming from the amplifier itself.  *But that is where it gets confusing, we have to stop calling Stax energizer or driving unit AN AMPLIFIER, because it is actually an energizer or driving unit literally 
*
So then, let me remind every one that you can enjoy music with whatever budget you have, and if you could enjoy your music by simply YouTube and a pair of Bose or stock earbuds, good for you.  I am jealous with that.  I honestly am ! Why ? Simply, because if I needed to spend 10K on an Amp and 10K on a DAC to get the same level of satisfactory as your, then I am jealous.  Period.

However, do not claim or mistakenly amass the idea that “Stax lack bass” because they do not.  You can claim that “beats by Dre lacks fidelity”, and it is ok, because you can hook it into a 10K Amp and it is what it is.  But if you have not plugged “Stax into a 10K Amp and DAC” could you really claim “Stax has no bass, *or worse....SR-009 is sibilants ?*”

In the end, instead of saying “Stax has no bass, or it is sibilants, or I can’t enjoy it”, then ask yourself another question “how far could your pocket stretch ?”  But if you already did, then it is all the matter of personal preferences......we don’t all like “anchovies”..  for real

Just my 2 cents


----------



## PointyFox

The BluTack mod on the mk2 produces the best bass.


----------



## tumpux

I wonder how our cavemen ancestors settle this kind of argument back then..


----------



## protoss (Mar 22, 2019)

Here it is bois! The* "New Omega announcement"* is being made as we watch this video!

People with no patience! I see you over there eating your potato chips!* 
Skip to 12:40 -14:30*





Everyone better start saving now!* Have $6000usd in 2 years!*
I dont want to hear any excuses from anyone! You guys have 2 years to make that money for staxs!!


----------



## protoss (Mar 22, 2019)

I am not a Stax history pro.  but.....

Stax is not making a 010 or 011 or 012 series as their next flagship

They are reviving the "Omega". And making a "Omega version series" !?

I never understood this until now. It was Stax Omega 1993. 'OMEGA' like 'ORPHEUS'.

Stax 007Mk1 1997
Stax 007MK2 2006
Stax 009 2011
Stax 009S 2018

Most likely 2020-2021 'Stax NEW Omega'

The "000" are not part of the 'omega' brand! Very strange. As how I always knew it, 1997 Stax 007MK1 was Omega 2? So, I guess this is wrong now?!


----------



## protoss (Mar 22, 2019)

So who are the special ones who heard or own the *Omega 1993*?! 
I still consider the 1993 Omega stax best headphone they ever made next to 007mk1!!!


----------



## tumpux

You just saw it?
Been there since January.


----------



## protoss

tumpux said:


> You just saw it?
> Been there since January.



Yup. Must of missed the post. I dont lurk too much on staxs. I am familiar with them overall.


----------



## walakalulu

Hopefully the electrostatic market has grown sufficiently to allow Stax to invest in a new flagship as a viable proposition this time. A new Omega sounds an exciting proposition providing it can be driven by BHSE etc.


----------



## Sound Eq (Mar 23, 2019)

from where to buy the the plastic headband assembly for stax 307 , I do not see that model on staxaudio site

also any other sellers where they ship internationally as that site does not ship internationally


----------



## Scgorg

Sound Eq said:


> from where to buy the the plastic headband assembly for stax 307 , I do not see that model on staxaudio site



I don't think those headbands are still in production, but Spritzer/Mjolnir audio had some last time I checked.


----------



## Sound Eq

Scgorg said:


> I don't think those headbands are still in production, but Spritzer/Mjolnir audio had some last time I checked.


so do the other ones on staxaudio site fit the 307 as they all look the same


----------



## Hansotek

Dan Lee said:


> Very nice thank you for that.  I look forward to getting my Carbon then.  I have the Focal Utopias as well.  I find they are great headphones as well and the dynamics and tonality they present are fantastic.  I still love my LCD-4s as well, but there is just something about these stax headphones I just cant quite help but be overwhelmed by.  Ive heard people say they think they sound weird or off in some way and all i can think is they musta just ran through some shooting practice without hearing protection cause the only way these sound off is in the way they just sound god damn perfect and I havent even heard them through a TOTL amp yet.



I just got my KGSSHV Carbon in the mail today, and you definitely made the right choice, dude. This amp is a remarkable piece of equipment. I am seriously blown away.


----------



## Dan Lee

@Hansotek I appreciate that comment as it makes me feel better about my purchase for sure.  Mine is still out a couple weeks or so.  Did you get yours direct through Mjolnir or have someone build it?

Also a question for all stax owners reading this.  I have only had my 009's for a little while and have noticed some things that I find a little disconcerting.  I seem to get this popping sound that happens when I am positioning the phones onto my head or moving the drivers.  I have for the most part learned this is at least a somewhat common thing referred to rather oddly as a "stax fart", but on mine it is happening significantly more in the left driver then the right.  Also from time to time if I turn my head a certain way or in a slightly quick manner it sounds as though the left driver is crackling similar to the noise that occurs when you change the station on an old radio.  Not sure if this is a thing to worry about or just something common to the electrostatically charged world of headphones.  I have heard of driver imbalance issues and also driver failures which seems to be less of an issue with newer models, but a concern none the less.  

If those of you who read this have any insight to offer it would be very much appreciated.  

Thank you all
Dan Moser


----------



## Hansotek

Dan Lee said:


> @Hansotek I appreciate that comment as it makes me feel better about my purchase for sure.  Mine is still out a couple weeks or so.  Did you get yours direct through Mjolnir or have someone build it?
> 
> Also a question for all stax owners reading this.  I have only had my 009's for a little while and have noticed some things that I find a little disconcerting.  I seem to get this popping sound that happens when I am positioning the phones onto my head or moving the drivers.  I have for the most part learned this is at least a somewhat common thing referred to rather oddly as a "stax fart", but on mine it is happening significantly more in the left driver then the right.  Also from time to time if I turn my head a certain way or in a slightly quick manner it sounds as though the left driver is crackling similar to the noise that occurs when you change the station on an old radio.  Not sure if this is a thing to worry about or just something common to the electrostatically charged world of headphones.  I have heard of driver imbalance issues and also driver failures which seems to be less of an issue with newer models, but a concern none the less.
> 
> ...



It was built by a guy in Japan. I’m the second owner.

I agree, the Stax fart is super annoying. Can’t really add much more useful info to that part of the convo though.


----------



## Dan Lee

Thanks again man and yeah it is annoying but I am ok with it if I find out its normal for it to occur in quite different amounts in each driver.  It would still be annoying, but small thing to deal with for epic sound.

What were you running your stax through before the Carbon and was the jump vastly noticeable in quality or subtly noticed?


----------



## protoss

Dan Lee said:


> "stax fart",



This is one of the many major drawbacks of owning Staxs! The farts, the sweat, water. humidity, dust, and paranoia! I never felt more paranoid with staxs than any other headphones! The paranoia of owning staxs is at the highest level next to owning Audeze! 

Last time I had those crackling noise on one of the drivers, the driver die in a week or so! Welcome to staxs baby! 

Reasons, dust, hair, humidity and the Mylar coating is drying up. It is most likely dust or hair. Good luck! Staxs baby!


----------



## catscratch

You most likely have a better seal in the left channel than in the right channel. The crinkling happens from pressure changes inside the earcup, and if you don't have a perfect seal the air can escape and there is no crinkling.

If there is a really bad seal, you will hear it in the bass response. A bad seal will give you some midbass emphasis - around 80-100hz - but at the cost of deep bass extension. Meanwhile, if the seal is good, the bass should be much more linear and extend all the way down. You can test this with a test tone generator, but to be honest if it's not audible with music, and if your bass isn't off to one side consistently I wouldn't worry about it.

I also wouldn't worry about the effects on longevity either, afaik this is benign. The SR-007 Mk1 did this all day long, and those last for decades when well taken care of.


----------



## Dan Lee

Soooo... @protoss has me thinking I've got a driver goin out in a week or so.  Which is like ahhhhhhh (me screaming in fear inside my head incase that didn't come off in written form).  I appreciate your comment anyway.
thennnn... @catscratch gives me some confidence to think this could all be in my head and is likely nothing to worry about.  
uhhhhh... well I appreciate the clear up there guys hahahaha.  I shall not be sleeping tonight as I lie awake in bed tonight thinking "dammit my left driver is probably going out, but wait no catscratch said its probably normal phew followed by ahhh (this time thats a sigh of relief not outright paralyzing fear) I guess I can go to sleep now (I think to myself).  As I close my eyes ready to drift away dreaming of the day I own the Sennheiser Orpheus, I am immediately roused awake to the remember their could be a piece of dust or a hair on my left driver, or worse the mylar coating (I have no idea what this is by the way) could be to dry.  Panic sets in and.... 

So yeah should be a good night haha.


----------



## protoss

@Dan Lee 
Don't be paranoid


----------



## Dan Lee

Hahahaha... may be a little paranoid, but thats not limited to hifi audio  I have had to send gear in before as I am sure most of us have, but still annoying to have to do so.  But eventually it all works out.  Not to worried just want to no what to look for when I am new to somethin and have all you genius level stax peeps to help me out.  

On yet another note have any of you compare 009's to the Voce?  If so what do you think?  Are they different enough to justify owning both of them?


----------



## Hansotek

Dan Lee said:


> Thanks again man and yeah it is annoying but I am ok with it if I find out its normal for it to occur in quite different amounts in each driver.  It would still be annoying, but small thing to deal with for epic sound.
> 
> What were you running your stax through before the Carbon and was the jump vastly noticeable in quality or subtly noticed?



I currently have a L300LTD and a normal bias Lambda and was running them through an SRM-1 MK2. I've always wanted a TOTL electrostatic amp and a trade opportunity presented itself for the KGSSHV Carbon that was mutually beneficial for both parties, so I YOLO'd it and pulled the trigger. So far I've only got the L300LTD to run through it, but honestly, it is subjectively one of my favorite headphones so I'm happy as hell right now. If I stay with this direction, I'll probably grab an SR-009 eventually and/or upgrade to a full blown L700. I also wouldn't mind an SR-Sigma Pro or 4070.

Even on the L300LTD (which is an L300 body, L500 pads and L700 drivers), the jump was extremely noticeable. The biggest jump was in transparency and air. The headphone is vapor. It just completely dematerialized into wide-open space. It reminds me a lot of listening to the SR-009 on the Blue Hawaii in this way - when electrostatics get good power behind them they just disappear. It's not quite to the level of the aforementioned 009/BHSE combo, but like 50 layers of veil just came off. I'd be curious to hear both amps head-to-head with an 009 to see which comes out ahead.

The other most noticeable (perhaps even more noticeable) aspect is the bass quantity and quality. The headphone is a lot more visceral and "ballsy" sounding now. It sounds like a BIG amp (and it is a BIG amp, holy crap this thing dwarfs my Glenn OTL, and that's a big amp too! (the GOTL is like 35 lbs)). Sometimes I felt like the L300LTD sounded a little colored or "warmed over" on the SRM-1 MK2 and light on dynamics. On the KGSSHV Carbon, it's like it's more neutral, but also more visceral. The bass is super crispy and clear and now it actually moves you. Subbass seems to be more extended as well, which doesn't surprise me in the least.

Resolution is clearly a few layers deeper. The stage is a little bit wider with more depth projection and WAY more fine layering between the the depth of sonic images. Tone is more neutral and true to life, yet musicality improved as well. 

It's really impressive in every way, and has me thinking about diving headlong into the e-stat route.


----------



## franz12

Hansotek said:


> I currently have a L300LTD and a normal bias Lambda and was running them through an SRM-1 MK2. I've always wanted a TOTL electrostatic amp and a trade opportunity presented itself for the KGSSHV Carbon that was mutually beneficial for both parties, so I YOLO'd it and pulled the trigger. So far I've only got the L300LTD to run through it, but honestly, it is subjectively one of my favorite headphones so I'm happy as hell right now. If I stay with this direction, I'll probably grab an SR-009 eventually and/or upgrade to a full blown L700. I also wouldn't mind an SR-Sigma Pro or 4070.
> 
> Even on the L300LTD (which is an L300 body, L500 pads and L700 drivers), the jump was extremely noticeable. The biggest jump was in transparency and air. The headphone is vapor. It just completely dematerialized into wide-open space. It reminds me a lot of listening to the SR-009 on the Blue Hawaii in this way - when electrostatics get good power behind them they just disappear. It's not quite to the level of the aforementioned 009/BHSE combo, but like 50 layers of veil just came off. I'd be curious to hear both amps head-to-head with an 009 to see which comes out ahead.
> 
> ...



You own/owned/heard many TOTLs. It is surprising that you are still blown away.


----------



## ahmedie

Hansotek said:


> I currently have a L300LTD and a normal bias Lambda and was running them through an SRM-1 MK2. I've always wanted a TOTL electrostatic amp and a trade opportunity presented itself for the Carbon that was mutually beneficial for both parties, so I YOLO'd it and pulled the trigger. So far I've only got the L300LTD to run through it, but honestly, it is subjectively one of my favorite headphones so I'm happy as hell right now. If I stay with this direction, I'll probably grab an SR-009 eventually and/or upgrade to a full blown L700. I also wouldn't mind an SR-Sigma Pro or 4070.
> 
> Even on the L300LTD (which is an L300 body, L500 pads and L700 drivers), the jump was extremely noticeable. The biggest jump was in transparency and air. The headphone is vapor. It just completely dematerialized into wide-open space. It reminds me a lot of listening to the SR-009 on the Blue Hawaii in this way - when electrostatics get good power behind them they just disappear. It's not quite to the level of the aforementioned 009/BHSE combo, but like 50 layers of veil just came off. I'd be curious to hear both amps head-to-head with an 009 to see which comes out ahead.
> 
> ...


Oh thank you for the impression! I was waiting for someone to test L300LTD (my most preferred stax over L700/L404Lt/Omega/etc) with a KGSSHV tier amp I feel sad for my wallet now ... I used to own L700 / own L300LTD / L404, I can tell you at least L700 does not offer enough technical jump over L300LTD, just a tad better and smoother treble performance while bass quantity is less with analytical sound/neutral.


----------



## Pahani

Hansotek said:


> I currently have a L300LTD and a normal bias Lambda and was running them through an SRM-1 MK2. I've always wanted a TOTL electrostatic amp and a trade opportunity presented itself for the KGSSHV Carbon that was mutually beneficial for both parties, so I YOLO'd it and pulled the trigger. So far I've only got the L300LTD to run through it, but honestly, it is subjectively one of my favorite headphones so I'm happy as hell right now. If I stay with this direction, I'll probably grab an SR-009 eventually and/or upgrade to a full blown L700. I also wouldn't mind an SR-Sigma Pro or 4070.
> 
> Even on the L300LTD (which is an L300 body, L500 pads and L700 drivers), the jump was extremely noticeable. The biggest jump was in transparency and air. The headphone is vapor. It just completely dematerialized into wide-open space. It reminds me a lot of listening to the SR-009 on the Blue Hawaii in this way - when electrostatics get good power behind them they just disappear. It's not quite to the level of the aforementioned 009/BHSE combo, but like 50 layers of veil just came off. I'd be curious to hear both amps head-to-head with an 009 to see which comes out ahead.
> 
> ...



Ah, thanks for that! Sadly, my chances of being able to afford a KG amp in the future are quite slim. I'm still holding on to my SRM-1 MK2, but mostly just because it has one Normal Bias output and I'd like to retain that capability if I ever run across older Staxes in the future. 353X is the amp I currently use.


----------



## Hansotek

Pahani said:


> Ah, thanks for that! Sadly, my chances of being able to afford a KG amp in the future are quite slim. I'm still holding on to my SRM-1 MK2, but mostly just because it has one Normal Bias output and I'd like to retain that capability if I ever run across older Staxes in the future. 353X is the amp I currently use.



I like both of those amps. I don't think I'll be selling the SRM-1 MK2 anytime soon. The OG normal bias Lambda is still one of my all-time favorite headphones. I was looking at the SRM-353X, until this opportunity came up. I heard that with the L300LTD when they debuted both anniversary editions at Canjam NYC last year, and was blown away by the open stage in balanced mode. You've got a really nice amp there, for sure.


----------



## Hansotek

ahmedie said:


> Oh thank you for the impression! I was waiting for someone to test L300LTD (my most preferred stax over L700/L404Lt/Omega/etc) with a KGSSHV tier amp I feel sad for my wallet now ... I used to own L700 / own L300LTD / L404, I can tell you at least L700 does not offer enough technical jump over L300LTD, just a tad better and smoother treble performance while bass quantity is less with analytical sound/neutral.



Yeah, I've had a pretty significant amount of headtime with both. The difference is like 3-5% maybe at the most. The drivers are the same. I got a steal on the L300LTD used. The cheapest L700s I've seen were at least $400 more used and $600 more new. It was just such a no brainer. The headphone's value proposition is highway robbery for the level of resolution you get. If the L300LTD was a planar or a dynamic, it would be like $3K.


----------



## Dan Lee

Man if you are seeing that much improvement I can't wait to mine.  Right now I can tell the 009 and L700 are great, but not so great as to set them so far apart from the Utopia and in some cases my LCD-4.  But if there is that much noticeable difference in them I will be extremely happy because they are the best I've heard right now, but only by a small margin.  If that margin jumps for me half as much as it did for you I will be content as hell.

I love the L700, but every time I pick them up they feel like they are gonna bloody crumble into piles of plastic in my hands haha.  But I absolutely agree that at the cost point the Lamda's sit at they are insanely good.  I feel the $1400 L700 and likely the L300ltd are just as good as some of the $4k offerings out there.  

Still a little worried about the left driver on the 009's but they are under warranty so guess there's no reason to worry too much yet.  I do wish they would make the L700's with a more solid and nice looking body, but I suppose some would just call that the 009.  I just wonder if the extra surface area would create a more engulfing sound experience.


----------



## Dan Lee

franz12 said:


> You own/owned/heard many TOTLs. It is surprising that you are still blown away.


Haha I saw his profile page with the overwhelming list of gear he's owned as well and wondered the same thing.  thats the beauty... and curse of this hobby.  Seems like there is an unending level of places to go.  I have often described it as being similar to a heroin addiction in that you are always chasing the dragon.  Just incase someone misconstrues that last statement, I have never used or been addicted to heroin just heard the stories relating to it via psychological studies.

This is exactly why I hope to never hear the Orpheus.  I feel like if I know how good it is I would take out a second mortgage on my house to get it which would lead to a divorce and I'd have to work two jobs for the rest of my days and yeah not what I wanna do.  So for now I just tell myself it's a mythical legend that doesn't exist haha.


----------



## -HaVoC-Tzu-

Dan Lee said:


> This is exactly why I hope to never hear the Orpheus.  I feel like if I know how good it is I would take out a second mortgage on my house to get it which would lead to a divorce and I'd have to work two jobs for the rest of my days and yeah not what I wanna do.  So for now I just tell myself it's a mythical legend that doesn't exist haha.



If I was on the fence on it, i’d make sure to buy a $50k speaker setup before buying a $50k headphone setup.  I’d only get the Orpheus If money wasn’t a problem.


----------



## franz12

Dan Lee said:


> Haha I saw his profile page with the overwhelming list of gear he's owned as well and wondered the same thing.  thats the beauty... and curse of this hobby.  Seems like there is an unending level of places to go.  I have often described it as being similar to a heroin addiction in that you are always chasing the dragon.  Just incase someone misconstrues that last statement, I have never used or been addicted to heroin just heard the stories relating to it via psychological studies.
> 
> This is exactly why I hope to never hear the Orpheus.  I feel like if I know how good it is I would take out a second mortgage on my house to get it which would lead to a divorce and I'd have to work two jobs for the rest of my days and yeah not what I wanna do.  So for now I just tell myself it's a mythical legend that doesn't exist haha.



Perhaps, having 2 channel speakers might allow us to stop chasing the dragon. Not because they sound better, but because it would be much hassle to pack and ship such large/heavy speakers (also harder to find buyers in a used market). Headphones/amps/dacs are so easy to ship and find buyers. Also, they are smaller in size, so I feel people rotate their collection at a much higher rate.

By the way, you said the 009 is better only by a small margin with your current setup. Could you tell me what do you mean by 'small margin'? Perhaps, soundstage? I always felt soundstage in the Utopia is small and it is comparable to soundstage in the Ether C Flow.


----------



## Hansotek

-HaVoC-Tzu- said:


> If I was on the fence on it, i’d make sure to buy a $50k speaker setup before buying a $50k headphone setup.  I’d only get the Orpheus If money wasn’t a problem.



I’ve heard the HE-1 on several occasions. And while it is far and away the best headphone I’ve heard, if I had $50K to spend on audio, I’d much rather have a sweet speaker setup at that investment level. Like give me some mid-level MBLs or something... The HE-1 has the best imaging I’ve heard in a headphone, but the imaging on radialstrahlers shreds everything else you’ve ever heard to pieces.


----------



## Hansotek

Dan Lee said:


> Man if you are seeing that much improvement I can't wait to mine.  Right now I can tell the 009 and L700 are great, but not so great as to set them so far apart from the Utopia and in some cases my LCD-4.  But if there is that much noticeable difference in them I will be extremely happy because they are the best I've heard right now, but only by a small margin.  If that margin jumps for me half as much as it did for you I will be content as hell.
> 
> I love the L700, but every time I pick them up they feel like they are gonna bloody crumble into piles of plastic in my hands haha.  But I absolutely agree that at the cost point the Lamda's sit at they are insanely good.  I feel the $1400 L700 and likely the L300ltd are just as good as some of the $4k offerings out there.
> 
> Still a little worried about the left driver on the 009's but they are under warranty so guess there's no reason to worry too much yet.  I do wish they would make the L700's with a more solid and nice looking body, but I suppose some would just call that the 009.  I just wonder if the extra surface area would create a more engulfing sound experience.



If you feel like the L700 is gonna crumble, go try a SR-Lambda normal bias, lol! I’m afraid I’m going to break it every time!


----------



## VRacer-111

Pahani said:


> Ah, thanks for that! Sadly, my chances of being able to afford a KG amp in the future are quite slim. I'm still holding on to my SRM-1 MK2, but mostly just because it has one Normal Bias output and I'd like to retain that capability if I ever run across older Staxes in the future. 353X is the amp I currently use.



Don't you have good stereo equipment (meaning a decent stereo amp) - see where I'm going with this...?

I'll tell you this, the NAD C275BEE stereo amp/ Mjolnir SRD-7 transformer combo is no slouch driving the L300 Limiteds... noticeably beyond what a SRM-323S/353X can do. Subbass impact beyond Argon Mk3, midbass punch right in line with Argon Mk3, overall fuller/more solid presentation of sound, and better smoothness.

You know I love the TH-X00 Purplehearts for bass....but not like I love the L300 Limited's for their bass on my setup even if they don't have the Purpleheart's impact level. Something about that STAX bass when they are running on setup with some power behind it. Only thing l like better for low-end is a properly functioning SR-404 Limited - I really need to try Blu-Tack pad sealing on the L300 Limiteds if it can get it nearer to the 404 Limited low end...


----------



## bmichels

*AK SP1000 driving a STAX SR009* thanks to Kingsound M-03 Portable Amp. Very very good sound. Even Jude was surprised by the result ! 



 

 

I shortened the looooong cable to make the SR009 more portable...


----------



## HoloSpice

bmichels said:


> *AK SP1000 driving a STAX SR009* thanks to Kingsound M-03 Portable Amp. Very very good sound. Even Jude was surprised by the result !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Omg... i can't believe you put them on the carpet...


----------



## buzzlulu

Has anyone connected a Sony WM1Z to a KG or Stax amp?
I wonder if a 4.4 Pentacon Balanced > pair of XLR's cable could be made


----------



## Mach3

buzzlulu said:


> Has anyone connected a Sony WM1Z to a KG or Stax amp?
> I wonder if a 4.4 Pentacon Balanced > pair of XLR's cable could be made



I have made 2 cable Pentacon to XLR. Works great.


----------



## staticdynamo (Mar 26, 2019)

bmichels said:


> *AK SP1000 driving a STAX SR009* thanks to Kingsound M-03 Portable Amp. Very very good sound. Even Jude was surprised by the result !
> 
> 
> 
> I shortened the looooong cable to make the SR009 more portable...



I don't understand why they insist on analogue. SRM-D10's digital input will be better than kingsound M-03. It seems ridiculous.  

Hmm I'm sorry I have mixed up some posts.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Mar 26, 2019)

Okay, did the Blu-tak earpad mod on my modded L300 Limiteds, but with Loctite Fun-tak:






Absolutely REDICULOUS how they sound now...absolutely noticeable improvement in low end extension and impact, along with a better sense of space and with details that seem a little more accessable/noticeable. Only possible downside is it seems just ever so slightly slower to me... like the sound is just a bit less instant.

Bass absolutely reminds me of the 404 Limited, but it's in a brighter, more spaceous and open sounding headphone... I likey!

EDIT: why does Kikuo sound awesome on STAX...

What the HECK are you doing with the panning Kikuo?!?! Freaking vertical & horizontal, circular panning that speeds up... LOL



And DAT sealed L300 limited BASS...who slipped in Fostex biodyna drivers into my STAX?! LOL


----------



## Sound Eq (Mar 26, 2019)

greetings everyone, I got a stax 007 Mk2 and the SRM-007tII energizer

I would like to know please, would I benefit pairing the stax 007 with an ifi ican pro and ifi iesl more than using the SRM-007tII

I am not looking into buying a Woo audio energizer or Blue Hawaii, or other brands, as those are not available where I live , so I just need to know if adding the ifi iesl to ifi ican pro would be a better pairing than with SRM-007tII

best wishes


----------



## ahmedie

VRacer-111 said:


> Okay, did the Blu-tak earpad mod on my modded L300 Limiteds, but with Loctite Fun-tak:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 Remove grill sound better without it !


----------



## Sound Eq (Mar 27, 2019)

greetings

can anyone link me to a page where |I can read bout the recommended  pad modding for stax 007 mk2 not the mk1, and how the mod affected the sound

are the 007 mk2 pads easy to take off and put back on

also any recommendation for covering the leather headband part with a cover that can clip on the leather part,?

finally, is the headband itself easy to take apart and to be re-assembled back again, in case a new headband is needed, i am bit worried of the leather part of the headband to loosen up badly with continued use as the ribbon or whatever is supporting it is a bit worrying with continuous use, since pads positioning is key so if that ribbon becomes loose i guess say goodbye to getting a proper seal as fit will be difficult to perfect

thanks in advance and sorry for all these noob questions as I just new with stax


----------



## astrostar59

I have built a few DIY DACs and they sounded very different indeed. Costs ranged from 2K - 5K.

Measured performance on DACs is one of the big cons in the last 30 years of digital. I am glad I don't read that stuff anymore, it doesn't tally with the sound I hear.

I think there are some misconceptions about DACs, Many think because it is digital it is 'bits are bits' so no loss, and everything sounds that same. That is not true at all. Then we need to consider a DAC is essentially 65% pre-amplifier with a DAC board fitted. I call it a DAC pre-amplifier. So a bit like a phono pre-amplifier, it really has to be a great pre-amplifier to sound good. I challenge anyone to claim all pre-amplifiers sound the same. We need a great PS and a great gain stage for starters to get a great sound out of it. That is just base requirement.

But most folk on here know there is a marked difference between DACs, amplifiers and headphones. It all matters.


----------



## paradoxper

Have you built a few DIY amps and they sounded very different indeed?

What is your point, astrostar? If you even have one.


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> Have you built a few DIY amps and they sounded very different indeed?
> 
> What is your point, astrostar? If you even have one.



Ref back to Pointy Fox posts. Same old arguments, DACs all sound the same Bla Bla.


----------



## paradoxper

astrostar59 said:


> Ref back to Pointy Fox posts. Same old arguments, DACs all sound the same Bla Bla.


You know, they do say "you can't fix stupid."


----------



## astrostar59

paradoxper said:


> You know, they do say "you can't fix stupid."



*Indeed, I was trying to be polite / educate. There are those who go halfway up the mountain and declare they know it all... *

I admit life is a constant learning journey, and that is partly why this hobby is so interesting for me personally.

Cory, where are you at now? will you come back to T2 levels at some point? I am loving my Aries Cerat Genus driving the LCD4s right now, it is almost perfect, and I don't use that word lightly.


----------



## paradoxper

T2 will always serve as the reference, however, I only occasionally listen to headphones these days.


----------



## PointyFox (Mar 28, 2019)

Calling me stupid or implying that I "only went halfway up a mountain" doesn't make your point valid. DACs haven't had a significant improvement since oversampling came out in the 80s. It's well known everywhere else that they sound the same and that no audiophile has ever proven they could tell the difference. Your "golden ears" are definitely questionable at best.


----------



## -HaVoC-Tzu-

PointyFox said:


> Calling me stupid or implying that I "only went halfway up a mountain" doesn't make your point valid. DACs haven't had a significant improvement since oversampling came out in the 80s. It's well known everywhere else that they sound the same and that no audiophile has ever proven they could tell the difference. Your "golden ears" are definitely questionable at best.



It doesn’t matter to us whether or not you can hear a difference.  Many of us here can easily hear a difference.  Which is why so many people are eager to correct you because to their point of view, you are sharing misguiding information for others that might be reading this.
Notice that i’m not trying to debate you.  You are entitled to your own opinion.  BTW, I doubt “Golden Ears” would hear any better than flesh covered ears due to resonance.


----------



## walakalulu

astrostar59 said:


> *Indeed, I was trying to be polite / educate. There are those who go halfway up the mountain and declare they know it all... *
> 
> I admit life is a constant learning journey, and that is partly why this hobby is so interesting for me personally.
> 
> Cory, where are you at now? will you come back to T2 levels at some point? I am loving my Aries Cerat Genus driving the LCD4s right now, it is almost perfect, and I don't use that word lightly.



Now come on - you know the Stax 009S with a good tubed headamp and dac are the bees knees.


----------



## astrostar59

walakalulu said:


> Now come on - you know the Stax 009S with a good tubed headamp and dac are the bees knees.



Well I have heard the older 009 on the BHSE many times. Also on the WES. I used to own a nice KGSShv to drive mine, and had a fab tubed R2R DAC at that time, the Audio Note (UK) DAC 5 which is a 30K DAC.

But I now find I like planers better, the Abyss, Susvara and LCD4 is my ideal now. Personal tastes of course....


----------



## PointyFox

-HaVoC-Tzu- said:


> It doesn’t matter to us whether or not you can hear a difference.  Many of us here can easily hear a difference.  Which is why so many people are eager to correct you because to their point of view, you are sharing misguiding information for others that might be reading this.
> Notice that i’m not trying to debate you.  You are entitled to your own opinion.  BTW, I doubt “Golden Ears” would hear any better than flesh covered ears due to resonance.



Your information is misguiding people into spending exorbitant amounts of money on snake oil. Argumentum ad populum doesn't mean that it is correct. You should know this.


----------



## astrostar59

PointyFox said:


> Your information is misguiding people into spending exorbitant amounts of money on snake oil. Argumentum ad populum doesn't mean that it is correct. You should know this.



It is actually the other way round IMO. If we go back to basics, why do you post on this forum, if you believe all DACs sound the same. You must be made up with your end game system, and not feel any need to look into this hobby further. I am jealous. But the other side of this is there is another world of sound quality to be had, by looking and learning. Again, it is why I like the hobby and come on this forum. I have not 'stopped' looking or learning.

PointyFox, my advice is spend more time on this subject. Contact an audio dealer and try some new products. There is major advances to be had once you get beyond this mindset,  I am being honest with you, trying to guide you. 

It doesn't surprise me much if you have found many DACs on tight budgets sounding the same. They are probably all using the same (sabre) chip, similar simple PS and op amp. Not surprised at all.


----------



## -HaVoC-Tzu- (Mar 28, 2019)

.


----------



## -HaVoC-Tzu-

PointyFox said:


> Your information is misguiding people into spending exorbitant amounts of money on snake oil. Argumentum ad populum doesn't mean that it is correct. You should know this.



Right, people should only spend as much as it makes sense for them to spend. If they can’t hear a difference then don’t waste your money.
Try before you buy.


----------



## Scgorg

I don't want to create any unnecessary and hostile discussion, but I think you should always trust your own ears. If pointyfox says the he personally can't hear a difference then that is great! If astrostar says he can hear a difference then that is great as well! I don't think people should cling to their own personal beliefs so strongly that they feel the need to call out others who have had differing experiences. I think it is better for people to try themselves and then see what they think. For example if a new member decides to buy an SR-007 and then asks whether he should splurge on a KGSSHV/Carbon/BHSE he should first try a measly SRM-252S and see for himself, perhaps he will find that he doesn't need the BHSE, he is then happy to have saved money. The other thing also works, where someone is happy that they could experience and buy the BHSE because they felt a drastic improvement.

What I'm saying is, don't trust everybody else's ears, they may not be like your own. Instead experience things yourself and conclude from that. From what I can see both pointyfox and astrostar are happy with their setups, so why should they then argue who is right? In their own mind they are both right, and that is what matters, *your personal enjoyment of the sound your system produces.
*
I hope we can avoid hostility in these threads as it serves no purpose, and on that note I hope you all have a nice day!


----------



## walakalulu

Well said sir. My ears have cost me dearly. Recently I treated myself to Atlas Asimi interconnect between dac and headamp but wouldn’t suggest many do the same. I must be nuts but my ears told me otherwise.


----------



## bluesaint

Personally I'd be ecstatic if i can't tell the difference between DACs and still able to fully satisfy my end game search..  But alas, no such luck lol.


----------



## catscratch

The whole "nobody has ever heard a difference" line is just plain wrong. Plenty of people have. Look at Tyll's Big Sound 2015 - most people couldn't tell the difference between sources in a double blind test, but one person could. Reliably.

It's a pretty standard misinterpretation of the data. If you have a group and 90% of that group score no better than 50/50 but 10% can reliably id something, this doesn't prove that there is no difference - it proves the opposite.

There is a good point to be made in this, however. The differences between two well-designed sources are small, and your chances of hearing them aren't great. At the same time, confirmation bias is very real, and a controlled double-blind test is generally the best way to go about these sorts of things. However confirmation bias swings both ways, and if you believe that there is no difference between anything, you're more likely to ignore the differences even when they exist.

Human hearing is something of a bell curve. Most people won't be able to tell the difference between two good sources, but will be able to tell the difference between a good source and garbage. A few have bricks for ears and can't tell anything apart, and a few can tell the difference even between two well designed sources. Of course, we all like to pretend we belong to the latter group, but actually testing these things for yourself and keeping an open mind is usually the best way to go.

For the record, a decade and a half ago I would have told you "source first!" and did, repeatedly. Today, that's no longer my stance. Digital has come a long way and there are plenty of good sources that sound good enough for most people which aren't too expensive, and wasting thousands on what is essentially a moving target is not something I consider a good idea. But, there's still stuff that sounds like crap out there, too...


----------



## pegasus21

astrostar59 said:


> I have built a few DIY DACs and they sounded very different indeed. Costs ranged from 2K - 5K.
> 
> Measured performance on DACs is one of the big cons in the last 30 years of digital. I am glad I don't read that stuff anymore, it doesn't tally with the sound I hear.
> 
> ...



Since you've built your own DACs possibly using different DAC chips and that you're also possibly stating that these different DACs sound different. Maybe you might be able to shed some light on a burning question I have about how much the actual DAC chips impart to the overall sound.







Typically in all DACs, you have at least 1 to 3 analogue stages after the DAC chips and before the signal exits the chassis of the DAC and is output to the input stage of another device say an amplifier.

In all cases, you have an LPF stage. In some cases, you may also have a voltage gain stage before a buffer.

In your DIY DACs, are they typically using the same design for the LPF, voltage gain and buffer stage (if applicable)? If they are not there is no control. How can we say with certainty that these analogue stages do not change the sound of the DAC chips and thus causing different DAC chips to sound different?


----------



## astrostar59 (Mar 28, 2019)

pegasus21 said:


> Since you've built your own DACs possibly using different DAC chips and that you're also possibly stating that these different DACs sound different. Maybe you might be able to shed some light on a burning question I have about how much the actual DAC chips impart to the overall sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I built up 3 versions of the Audio Note DACs. All used the same AD1865 NK chip but had different PS and gain stage.

They also had different qualities of I/V transformer and caps, resistors, tube types. And one of the had a shunt PS on the digital board. And different OPTs.

All were NOS and filterless, all blew away off the shelf DACs I tried in range up to 8K euros at least.

Chips have a sound, it has taken the big chip companies only 30 years to realise that LOL. To my ears NOS types sound the most natural. But as in any DAC, you need a good PS and gain stage, or it will sound synthetic and not realistic.


----------



## Sound Eq (Mar 29, 2019)

hi, I do not know where else to post as it seems I tried in other threads but no answers, so maybe here I will get some answers

does it have to be only the expensive model to feel the difference between stax 007TII and those from Mjolinr audio, to be used with 007 mk2 or 009 s, so what bout those from mjolnir in the price range of 2000-3000 usd range, are those a big upgrade to stax 007tII. And what would such an upgrade provide in terms of sound . To be honest I am not planning to spend 5k or 6K usd on an amp for stax


what bout just using an ifi iesl with my ifi ican pro, would that not be as good as some of the recommended mjolnir amps

currently i have 007 mk2 with 007tii -- using chord hugo 2 as a dac-- i adore the sound

planning to get the new 009s or if the rumours are true a bout a new omega that will come out

also have 407 and 307 which are fine

what other models are worthing adding to the collection besides L700 and L300 LE


----------



## statfi

catscratch said:


> confirmation bias is very real, and a controlled double-blind test is generally the best way to go about these sorts of things. ...



Could some of you give me links on your favorite "definitions" of double-blind testing?  I really do want to know "what is standard".

As a little background, I am an inveterate tweaker, and am frequently and consciously worried about confirmation bias.  I use ABABA...testing ad nauseum until I am satisfied with the result *in my own mind* which is, which I hope combats confirmation bias but obviously leaves lots of opportunity for it to corrupt the final decision.  I have noticed, over time, that my ultimate choice sometimes does not agree with my expectation, and sometimes does.  I take the former case as some indication that I am not completely polluted with confirmation bias.  Of course, I take the latter case as an indication that "I really was right all along", which is scary in the current context.

One of the things I have noticed in my ABABA.... testing is that the material differences often do not become consciously apparent to apparent to me in the first one or two AB cycles.  "My ear/brain system" needs to "consciously learn" what the difference is.  Once I have learned what the difference is, I can pick it out much more easily.

My impression is that even if I have not learned how to identify a particular improvement, my listening experience improves when that improvement is in effect.  In other words, I do not need to be a trained listener in order to benefit from improvements only a trained listener might be able to identify.

I do not use double-blind testing because it is so difficult to implement, especially as a "lone-wolf" audiophile.

Going back to my request at the top, I want to see how "experts" accommodate my perceived need of training within the context of rigorous double-blind testing and look for ideas on how to unbias testing without the personnel required for double-blind.


----------



## astrostar59

Sound Eq said:


> hi, I do not know where else to post as it seems I tried in other threads but no answers, so maybe here I will get some answers
> 
> does it have to be only the expensive model to feel the difference between stax 007TII and those from Mjolinr audio, to be used with 007 mk2 or 009 s, so what bout those from mjolnir in the price range of 2000-3000 usd range, are those a big upgrade to stax 007tII. And what would such an upgrade provide in terms of sound . To be honest I am not planning to spend 5k or 6K usd on an amp for stax
> 
> ...



I am not a fan of the Mjolnir amps. They are ok, but overpriced IMO, the case work is poor / basic. The PS in many of his amps is not following KGs design and scaled back. I would look for a nice used KGSShv or KGST. The new Stax T-8000 is bad, very weak sound for the money. The Trilogy H1 is not much better. Maybe approach Headamp for a deal on the BHSE?

Or go planars and use a speaker amp, that is what I have done. SET amp with planars is heavenly.

Back on your topic, the Stax amps have always been the ear link, just not driving the 009 or 007s to their potential IMO.


----------



## protoss

astrostar59 said:


> Or go planars and use a speaker amp



Quick off topic again. And your views on the Gsx-mk2/mini running planars or dynamic vs speaker Amps?


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## Sound Eq

astrostar59 said:


> I am not a fan of the Mjolnir amps. They are ok, but overpriced IMO, the case work is poor / basic. The PS in many of his amps is not following KGs design and scaled back. I would look for a nice used KGSShv or KGST. The new Stax T-8000 is bad, very weak sound for the money. The Trilogy H1 is not much better. Maybe approach Headamp for a deal on the BHSE?
> 
> Or go planars and use a speaker amp, that is what I have done. SET amp with planars is heavenly.
> 
> Back on your topic, the Stax amps have always been the ear link, just not driving the 009 or 007s to their potential IMO.



thanks for the answer what bout using ifi ican pro with ifi iesl, would that be close to KGSShv amp or are we far away with using 007mk2


----------



## astrostar59

Can't offer on that, as never heard the iFi audio amp. But in the recent past amps that try to do both tend not get to a higher level on sound quality. I think you are best deciding if Stats of dynamics are your destination. If stats, go for a dedicated stat amp, but not a Stax amp.


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## JimL11 (Mar 30, 2019)

Sound Eq said:


> thanks for the answer what bout using ifi ican pro with ifi iesl, would that be close to KGSShv amp or are we far away with using 007mk2



The iESL uses a capacitor bank for the bias supply which is disconnected from the AC during use so therefore noise free. Stax, Sennheiser and Gilmore all use a simple voltage multiplier circuit connected to the AC power supply at all times, which is more than adequate. AFAIK, nobody has ever complained of the bias supply being too noisy, so this seems like a waste of effort. No idea of the sound, but the fact that they wasted money and engineering time on a peripheral support circuit doesn't give me a lot of confidence.

The Trilogy H1 that astrostar59 mentions is another overpriced item. It is a simple 4 tube circuit, similar to the TubeCAD circuit designed in the 1980s and published in 1999, and should retail in the $1000 range - at least, that is the price range Schiit considered for a similar design for a few years ago.

NOTE: comment modified 3/29/19 at ll PM MDT.


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## bluesaint

Sound Eq said:


> thanks for the answer what bout using ifi ican pro with ifi iesl, would that be close to KGSShv amp or are we far away with using 007mk2


I'll be able to offer that answer in a few weeks when my carbon arrives from Denmark.  Right now im listening through full ifi stack.


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## georgep

Sound Eq said:


> thanks for the answer what bout using ifi ican pro with ifi iesl, would that be close to KGSShv amp or are we far away with using 007mk2



I would go with a dedicated electrostatic amplifier instead of a transformer-based solution.

KGSSHV is a great value - not sure if anyone is building these anymore, so there might only be used option. The KGSSHV Carbon is a much better amp, and there are affordable builders out there, depending on where you are located, or buy used. The Stax amps can be good if you listen at low volume levels, and are better with the 009 rather than the 007.

As a side note. Just noticed that the ifi iesl oddly indicates that it is compatible with the Orpheus system, displays a pair of current Orpheus (HE1) headphones, and yet does not have the appropriate jack and I highly doubt it would even be compatible with the current Orpheus, given its internal circuitry, even with an adapter. So not sure what they are about or who they are trying to market to.


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## Sound Eq

ifi states the below when iesl is used with ifi ican pro

"When combined with our Pro iCAN, the drive voltage to electrostatic headphones can be as high as 730V RMS, which is higher (and louder) than any other commercial amplifier out there."


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## georgep (Mar 29, 2019)

JimL11 said:


> The iESL uses an expensive and totally un-necessary battery supply for the bias. Stax, Sennheiser and Gilmore all use a simple voltage multiplier circuit which is more than adequate. No idea of the sound, but the fact that they wasted money and engineering time on a peripheral support circuit doesn't give me a lot of confidence.
> ... .



Weird, just noticed that  the "super special" capacitor they picture is a $0.60 300v cap (even cheaper at volume), yet they describe it as a 1000v cap. Looks like 12 of those bad boys make up the battery.

Edit: double checked the datasheet - 300v AC, and 1000v DC, so that's fair. Edit 2: reading the data sheet further, it indicates if they are run in DC above the rated max VAC, then essentially all bets are off for the stated performance of the cap - why would they spec this part? Why not spend an extra $1 per cap and get properly rated 1000v caps?


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## JimL11

Sound Eq said:


> hi, I do not know where else to post as it seems I tried in other threads but no answers, so maybe here I will get some answers
> 
> does it have to be only the expensive model to feel the difference between stax 007TII and those from Mjolinr audio, to be used with 007 mk2 or 009 s, so what bout those from mjolnir in the price range of 2000-3000 usd range, are those a big upgrade to stax 007tII. And what would such an upgrade provide in terms of sound . To be honest I am not planning to spend 5k or 6K usd on an amp for stax
> 
> ...



Just noticed you said you have a SRM-007 and like the sound. If that is the case, another option would be to modify the SRM-007 by substituting constant current loads for the plate resistors. This would be less than $100 in parts, and would more than double the effective power of your amp. It is a relatively simple mod, and would bring the circuit close to a KGST although without its regulated power supply. Here is a photo of a 007 that spritzer modified (he also changed the tubes to 6S4A in place of the 6CG7s but you get the idea). Even if you had someone do it for you it would still be much less expensive than the iESL.


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## JimL11 (Mar 30, 2019)

georgep said:


> Weird, just noticed that  the "super special" capacitor they picture is a $0.60 300v cap (even cheaper at volume), yet they describe it as a 1000v cap. Looks like 12 of those bad boys make up the battery.
> 
> Edit: double checked the datasheet - 300v AC, and 1000v DC, so that's fair. Edit 2: reading the data sheet further, it indicates if they are run in DC above the rated max VAC, then essentially all bets are off for the stated performance of the cap - why would they spec this part? Why not spend an extra $1 per cap and get properly rated 1000v caps?



DOH! You are correct, it isn't actually a battery at all, just 12 capacitors adding up to approx 0.26 uf. OK, so it isn't that expensive, mea culpa. I withdraw my previous criticism. The Stax and KG circuits use 0.1 uf cap as the final one in the chain, so not a lot of difference there. Apparently they do have a circuit to disconnect the charger from AC power, unlike everybody else but doubt that makes any significant difference. Previous comment above modified.


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## Zhanming057

astrostar59 said:


> I am not a fan of the Mjolnir amps. They are ok, but overpriced IMO, the case work is poor / basic. The PS in many of his amps is not following KGs design and scaled back. I would look for a nice used KGSShv or KGST. The new Stax T-8000 is bad, very weak sound for the money. The Trilogy H1 is not much better. Maybe approach Headamp for a deal on the BHSE?
> 
> Or go planars and use a speaker amp, that is what I have done. SET amp with planars is heavenly.
> 
> Back on your topic, the Stax amps have always been the ear link, just not driving the 009 or 007s to their potential IMO.



Mjolnir goes on record about using better components than Headamp - but that's neither here nor there. I agree on the casework, and for $4,000 there's no reason that he should be using $50 housing's. Getting proper finish work would go a long way toward making his amp look nicer. 

I found the T8000 okay with the 009 - it's not so much "weak" as deliberately going for a softer and gentler signature. I'd still take the BHSE and the Mjolnir Carbon over the T8000 though.


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## georgep

Sound Eq said:


> ifi states the below when iesl is used with ifi ican pro
> 
> "When combined with our Pro iCAN, the drive voltage to electrostatic headphones can be as high as 730V RMS, which is higher (and louder) than any other commercial amplifier out there."



That is because the iesl is not an amplifier. I suspect the WOO and Stax boxes would be similar depending upon what amplifier is connected to them.


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## -HaVoC-Tzu-

Spent 1 hour switching DACs and testing.  Between X1S vs WA7 vs HDV 820 vs Chord Hugo 2.  Very clear difference.  
ADSR, and sound stage change (might be an effect of better ADSR) and just more detail in the Chord Hugo 2.


----------



## Melody Spalti (Mar 31, 2019)

Is it time for someone to post photographs of the D10? It should be manageable and fairly straightforward.. to have done one evening.

Sunday nights work nicely : )

PerhapsPerhaps U though, but
Did they gimp it in some small way? And resistor load or transistor (current source?) load yet to be found outside, -- that is only in the 727? Can the D10 amplifier be slightly modified or improved in some way?
Pics per pm or listing here or in the 002/003 thread for continuity and stability-archival retrieval purposes may be in order.

At $760 or 795 after discount from retailer it is a lot of money and I know I would love a picture of how jammed up it is inside, potentially minute and better circuit details. 
Especially for those of us learning about electrostatic.


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## kevin gilmore

if you ask the right person, pictures are available. (not me)
The thing is stuffed on the insides.
The main devices are apex pa443 opamps running on a total power supply voltage of +/-175v
You can't increase the voltage which means the voltage swings limit the maximum volume.

No modifications of any kind seem possible.


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## chimney189

Would anyone have any recommendations for an amplifier for the JADE II electrostatic headphone?
I'm looking for $1,000 or under if possible, as the amplifier that it comes with doesn't seem too great.


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## GarageBoy (Apr 1, 2019)

The Jade II has a stax style plug right? Any t1 variant would be my pick (006/007/600)  - 717/727 ain't a bad choice


Regarding casework - maybe it's because I grew up with diy audio (my dad built amps with a few grand of transformers and Teflon wiring shoved into what was a baking pan) - but I'd rather have the money spent on the parts and better design than a pretty case - then again, I'd take a ratty car with a 700hp LS1 based motor over the mercedMe


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## Melody Spalti (Apr 1, 2019)

Hi GarageBoy, Jim,
I told Chimney I have feedback modified 727, also a 2012 model with US voltage winding on the BandoBtransformer. Would you just suggest he gets this 727 to be done with step up/down transformers? I am moving on to speakers and portable electrostats.


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## JimL11

I personally prefer a modified T1 to the modified 727 (I had both and sold the modded 727), but that's just IMHO.


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## Melody Spalti (Apr 1, 2019)

What about the T1 as is stock?? I can't see many modified T1 on the market either, along with the 727s.


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## chimney189

I decided to pick up an SRM-1mk2


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## JimL11

Melody Spalti said:


> What about the T1 as is stock?? I can't see many modified T1 on the market either, along with the 727s.



The stock T1 is fine with Lambda level phones. Where it falls short is driving something like the SR-007, but remember that when Stax first sold the  SR-007 it sold them with SRM-006 as a baseline amp, and the 006 is just an updated T1. A modded T1 does a good job driving the 007 - there are better options, but not for that amount of money. Note that even a stock T1 should have its electrolytic capacitors replaced as routine maintenance, as the amps are over 20 years old at this point. Same goes for other older amps such as the SRM-1 series.


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## chimney189

Any impressions on the SRM-1mk2? Are higher end models THAT much better? Or is it chasing that 5% type of deal?
From what I'm reading it's a neutral sounding amplifier?


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## Sound Eq (Apr 3, 2019)

powering stax headphones seems to be a big challenge with the likes of 007 mk2, from reading different sites I assume a big upgrade for 007 mk2 powered with an amp other than my 007TII amp, like when amped with KGSSHV or Blue Hawaii or others that get recd here. I am close to sell my beloved  Hifiman he1000 SE just to try to buy one of those very expensive amps and clall it quits and stay in stax haven, but I am concerned that it will not be a big jump that was worth investing in and losing my beloved Hifiman HE1000 Se for

l wish I could audition those high end amps / energisers than to take risks in selling my beloved gears


----------



## franz12

Sound Eq said:


> powering stax headphones seems to be a big challenge with the likes of 007 mk2, from reading different sites I assume a big upgrade for 007 mk2 powered with an amp other than my 007TII amp, like when amped with KGSSHV or Blue Hawaii or others that get recd here. I am close to sell my beloved  Hifiman he1000 SE just to try to buy one of those very expensive amps and clall it quits and stay in stax haven, but I am concerned that it will not be a big jump that was worth investing in and losing my beloved Hifiman HE1000 Se for
> 
> l wish I could audition those high end amps / energisers than to take risks in selling my beloved gears



I wonder what are your thoughts about the 007 vs the HEKse with your current setup. Is the 007 that good? The HEKse already resolves quite a lot, so it is hard for me to imagine something resolves more than this.


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## VRacer-111 (Apr 4, 2019)

Okay, I just learned something... my modded L300 Limited actually has more subbass impact than my modded TH-X00 Purplehearts on this song, which I've heard many times (but not through several iterations of the new sealed pad mod on my modded L300 Limited):



This song really shows why I LOVE the STAX bass...besides that beautiful percussive midbass, there's that ~40hz centered large 'WUMP, WUMP, WUMP-WUMP' and 'WUMP-WUMP' drum impact starting around 47 seconds in that is absolutely TIGHT and precise yet also is felt as much as it's heard...STAX L300 Limited simply does it way better than the TH-X00 Purpleheart - tighter and more detailed yet with more lowend impact. Purpleheart is much messier/boomier and slower sounding. Both are equally full bodied sounding, though the Purpleheart does have more of a lingering resonating presence.

Now a few caveats to why this is the case for me:

1. On the STAX side, not using a STAX setup...using RME ADI-2 DAC as preamp to NAD C275BEE stereo amp and Mjolnir SRD-7. Have EQ setting of +3.5dB @ 57Hz with Q=1.2 and +1.5dB @ 82Hz with Q=1.3 on the ADI-2 DAC. My L300 Limited uses L700 pads and headband arc assembly and the pads are sealed to the frame with Loctite Fun-tak except for 2 segments at the rear-bottom of the inner channel.

2. On the TH-X00 side, it's running my most potent subbass pad setup, the Jmoney V3 lambskin with custom attenuators and plugged directly into the RME ADI-2 DAC headphone out. Subbass impact is a little below what the stock pads would be, but it does bass quality so much better along with overall better performance.

3. The pad sealing mod in combination with RME ADI-2 is the reason why the STAX is able to pull ahead of the TH-X00 PH at its own game of subbass impact. TH-X00 Purpleheart doesn't have the same level of subbass from the ADI-2 that it does with the Gustard X20U DAC and H10 amp they normally are used with.

And I came to comparing the Purpleheart subbass against the L300 Limited because after I got the pads sealed I started off with my modded HD58X with Yaxi Alcantara pads (which are a noticeable improvement over stock for the low end impact and punch) ... which were 'LOL Fail!' at subbass compared to the L300 Limiteds, then went to the Argons which were 'dang, farther behind in subbass than I remember!'... which got me curious on the Purplehearts...


----------



## -HaVoC-Tzu-

2. On the TH-X00 side, it's running my most potent subbass pad setup, the Jmoney V3 lambskin with custom attenuators and plugged directly into the RME ADI-2 DAC headphone out. Subbass impact is a little below what the stock pads would be, but it does bass quality so much better along with overall better performance.
[/QUOTE]
I have a feeling your PH are underpowered, When my PH are hooked up to HDV 820, they are absolutely deafening.  When hooked up to Fostex HPA4BL, they still have serious bass but still only maybe 1/3rd as strong.
P.S. I am not recommending HDV 820 + PH to anyone, unless you already have 2+ 12” inch subs in your car.  Then maybe you are enough of a basshead.


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## VRacer-111 (Apr 4, 2019)

-HaVoC-Tzu- said:


> I have a feeling your PH are underpowered, When my PH are hooked up to HDV 820, they are absolutely deafening.  When hooked up to Fostex HPA4BL, they still have serious bass but still only maybe 1/3rd as strong.
> P.S. I am not recommending HDV 820 + PH to anyone, unless you already have 2+ 12” inch subs in your car.  Then maybe you are enough of a basshead.



I agree, the RME ADI-2 DAC is not something that can drive them their best and not the amp I use them with generally because the low end isn't what it should be along with overall warmness or fullness... why reason/caveat #3 is there. The subbass is not anemic by any means though (it is noticeably there...this isn't some ESP950 or HD700 we are talking about) it's just the STAX L300 Limited is probably close to what it ultimately can be in regards to subbass presentation, which SURPRISINGLY gives it noticeably better subbass impact than a non-ideally powered TH-X00PH (which still has very good subbass impact.)

That is what I'm surprised about. The combination of the mods, the song, and amping is why it ultimately works out the way it does. The L300 Limited modded and properly powered and EQ'd will easily beat up any openback Sennheiser and take it's lunch money when it comes to subbass impact... no contest whatsoever.


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## Sound Eq (Apr 5, 2019)

franz12 said:


> I wonder what are your thoughts about the 007 vs the HEKse with your current setup. Is the 007 that good? The HEKse already resolves quite a lot, so it is hard for me to imagine something resolves more than this.



its not which is better or worse, its just i have been using planars and dynamic headphones for over 10 years, so all I want to do is get the best setup possible for stax within reasonable spending of course. So if I end up making up my mind about selling the HE1000SE then I will look into buying a better amp than my 007TII and also add 009S


----------



## Sound Eq

can i ask what is the difference between stax 404 LE and 407 sound wise

and is there a noticeable sound difference between stax 404 and 404 LE


----------



## Dan Lee

I've owned the ifi iESL with the iCAN and it seemed to run my L700's fine but the 009's started to do some things that made me a little uncomfortable with it.  I then started reading up on the threads here and started reading that quite a few wonder if the iESL actually damages the stat headphones.  While I have absolutely no idea if this is even remotely true I stopped using my iESL having already ordered a Carbon.  I am still awaiting the arrival of said Carbon and will be sure to let you all know if I can find any noticeable differences between the two.  From what people have said it should be night and day.  We shall soon see.

I will say despite the iESL not being with me any more, the iCAN and iDSD Pro are absolutely incredible and I believe I would have to spend a lot more money to find something that is significantly better to justify parting with them.


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## Sound Eq (Apr 6, 2019)

Dan Lee said:


> I've owned the ifi iESL with the iCAN and it seemed to run my L700's fine but the 009's started to do some things that made me a little uncomfortable with it.  I then started reading up on the threads here and started reading that quite a few wonder if the iESL actually damages the stat headphones.  While I have absolutely no idea if this is even remotely true I stopped using my iESL having already ordered a Carbon.  I am still awaiting the arrival of said Carbon and will be sure to let you all know if I can find any noticeable differences between the two.  From what people have said it should be night and day.  We shall soon see.
> 
> I will say despite the iESL not being with me any more, the iCAN and iDSD Pro are absolutely incredible and I believe I would have to spend a lot more money to find something that is significantly better to justify parting with them.



i am sure it will help us all once you get your carbon. I see that there is something similar to iesl called SRD 7 which is cheap. I have no idea if that can work with ifi ican pro though

I for one wish iesl in a combo setup with ifi ican pro can be good enough as the carbon, as ifi state that in the combo set it outputs 730 vrms

Anyhow I am just surprised how come ifi are barely doing anything to promote their ifi iesl and only few member have it, and when i ask them to send a review unit all I get is empty words. I like ifi but such scarce info to be found on that product , it is not encouraging me to buy it. Also if there was alot of info bout it on the net, I would not have asked to get a review unit and compare it to my 007TII

well if ifi does not care to properly document their product and have good comparisons with other products especially driving 007 and 009 then iesl will not be considered as a product to buy

If i can get 20 - 30% more headroom compared to my stax 007tII i will buy iesl but i will not buy a product blindly or that is not well documented and compared to other options out there


----------



## Dan Lee

Not sure about ifi's marketing or their intentions for the iESL.  I will say that it is odd that they advertise the iESL box with images of very high end electrostatic headphones like the orpheus which someone else stated earlier in the thread.  I imagine if you can afford higher end stats the iESL is not the power source your focus would be or should be on.  

I will definitely post impressions when I get my carbon in.


----------



## Sound Eq

Dan Lee said:


> Not sure about ifi's marketing or their intentions for the iESL.  I will say that it is odd that they advertise the iESL box with images of very high end electrostatic headphones like the orpheus which someone else stated earlier in the thread.  I imagine if you can afford higher end stats the iESL is not the power source your focus would be or should be on.
> 
> I will definitely post impressions when I get my carbon in.



could be, but my stax 007 mk2 costed me bout 1.5 k usd, so its not a very expensive gear compared to my hifiman HE1000SE, I am just having difficulty of buying a stax amp like the carbon for bout 3-4k usd and not knowing how a solution as iesl can perform in comparison with my ifi ican pro

anyhow I will not keep asking ifi to send a unit as I sense there is a bit hesitance from their side, although I made it clear that my reference would be not a very strong amp to compare with and that is the 007TII, 

anyway i will look at maybe KSSGHV or carbon


----------



## Dan Lee

If you feel you can wait a little I will let you know soon if your money will be well spent on a Carbon or something along those lines.  I believe if mine does end up sounding good I know where you can get a brand new Carbon for $3000, but maybe just wait till I can give some impressions.  All though I tend to believe what people have said on these forums.  The general consensus is that the KGSSHV Carbon, KGGG, BHSE, or T2 (the most coveted of stat amps) will provide unparalleled sound quality.  So for me I just cant bloody wait.


----------



## Whitigir

The best kind of candle lights in the Dark!


----------



## baseonmars

Regarding the SRM-007tii, is it possible to bypass the pot in the same way as one can with the SRM-727tii?


----------



## JimL11

baseonmars said:


> Regarding the SRM-007tii, is it possible to bypass the pot in the same way as one can with the SRM-727tii?



Turning up the volume all the way does the same thing as bypassing the volume control.


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## Sound Eq (Apr 12, 2019)

So i have been reading about all those energisers, i like my 007TII with my stax 007 mk2, and from reading bout all the other options out there, I read that the KGSSHV and Carbon are too bright and not musical sounding, but I never tried any so its difficult to judge, and BHSE is out of question for me, as that is not the path I will go after in terms of expenditures as the price is over my budget. As for WOO GES well I have no clue bout it, but on the other forum where stax is talked alot they ridicule the GES, or anything than what that certain builder in that site makes, all else is rubbish that is what the take away is from that site. But how can one know without auditioning, of course I see many buy his products so definitely that tells something

Although I still do not know what difference will I achieve from getting another amp than what I have 007TII with my 007 mk2, and if that huge investment will bring that wow factor, or would it be just a slight improvement , that is the main question for me. It sucks not being able to audition things. Some suggested to mod my 007TII but that is something I can not do, as I do not trust electricians who never know what stax are to do any mod, as to them the word Stax is foreign and here stax is not a known thing

Anyway, if I like to get an upgraded AMP for my 007Mk2, I would like it still to be musical, engaging and not getting bright, brittle, harsh or treble peaks that are annoying at all, especially i might add the 009/009s to my collection soon


On another note, yes I got a Jade2 and it sounds awesome, that is to address the strong attack on Jade 2, at least Jade 2 sounds better than many other stax headphones I have ( 407, 307 and L300 LE ) and I tired as well 009, L700 and L500. For the price the Jade 2 is a dam amazing stat.

Yes the 007 mk2 is the best electrostat I heard to this date and probably will be for quite some time for me


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

Sound Eq said:


> So i have been reading about all those energisers, i like my 007TII with my stax 007 mk2, and from reading bout all the other options out there, I read that the KGSSHV and Carbon are too bright and not musical sounding, but I never tried any so its difficult to judge, and BHSE is out of question for me, as that is not the path I will go after in terms of expenditures as the price is over my budget. As for WOO GES well I have no clue bout it, but on the other forum where stax is talked alot they ridicule the GES, or anything than what that certain builder in that site makes, all else is rubbish that is what the take away is from that site. But how can one know without auditioning, of course I see many buy his products so definitely that tells something
> 
> Although I still do not know what difference will I achieve from getting another amp than what I have 007TII with my 007 mk2, and if that huge investment will bring that wow factor, or would it be just a slight improvement , that is the main question for me. It sucks not being able to audition things. Some suggested to mod my 007TII but that is something I can not do, as I do not trust electricians who never know what stax are to do any mod, as to them the word Stax is foreign and here stax is not a known thing
> 
> ...



The carbon isn't really that bright. The people saying it's to bright and lacking musicality are 009 users where it's already thin and bright and just plain annoying on just about anything that doesn't roll off the top end (007T,006T,BHSE,T2 etc....). On the 007 the Carbon would be the best sounding option Imho. Just my 2c


----------



## bluesaint

Sound Eq said:


> So i have been reading about all those energisers, i like my 007TII with my stax 007 mk2, and from reading bout all the other options out there, I read that the KGSSHV and Carbon are too bright and not musical sounding, but I never tried any so its difficult to judge, and BHSE is out of question for me, as that is not the path I will go after in terms of expenditures as the price is over my budget. As for WOO GES well I have no clue bout it, but on the other forum where stax is talked alot they ridicule the GES, or anything than what that certain builder in that site makes, all else is rubbish that is what the take away is from that site. But how can one know without auditioning, of course I see many buy his products so definitely that tells something
> 
> Although I still do not know what difference will I achieve from getting another amp than what I have 007TII with my 007 mk2, and if that huge investment will bring that wow factor, or would it be just a slight improvement , that is the main question for me. It sucks not being able to audition things. Some suggested to mod my 007TII but that is something I can not do, as I do not trust electricians who never know what stax are to do any mod, as to them the word Stax is foreign and here stax is not a known thing
> 
> ...


Btw, I just experimented running a $3k 300w speaker amp at low gain into iESL and am pleasantly surprised at the result.  It easily bested how it sounded with iESL+iCAN Pro.  Made the 009 sound better for sure.  So energizers are definitely an extra option for you to consider.


----------



## georgep

Sound Eq said:


> So i have been reading about all those energisers, i like my 007TII with my stax 007 mk2, and from reading bout all the other options out there, I read that the *KGSSHV and Carbon are too bright and not musical sounding*, but I never tried any so its difficult to judge, and BHSE is out of question for me, as that is not the path I will go after in terms of expenditures as the price is over my budget. As for WOO GES well I have no clue bout it, but on the other forum where stax is talked alot *they ridicule the GES,* or anything than what that certain builder in that site makes, all else is rubbish that is what the take away is from that site. But how can one know without auditioning, of course I see many buy his products so definitely that tells something
> 
> Although I still do not know what difference will I achieve from getting another amp than what I have 007TII with my 007 mk2, and if that huge investment will bring that wow factor, or would it be just a slight improvement , that is the main question for me. It sucks not being able to audition things. Some suggested to mod my 007TII but that is something I can not do, as I do not trust electricians who never know what stax are to do any mod, as to them the word Stax is foreign and here stax is not a known thing
> 
> ...



I appreciate that it is hard to distill all the different opinions on this site, but once you view certain members' opinions as sound, there is usually no changing your mind. As well, you may like a particular sound that aligns with those other members. So given that you love the Jade 2 and would put it above all other Stax including the 009 and L700 (but not the 007 MK2), then I would say you should skip the Carbon as it is not likely the amplifier you are looking for. It is also worth pointing out that "on the other forum" the GES isn't ridiculed (though some minor technical issues are pointed out), and is regarded as WOO's best electrostatic amplifier.


----------



## 336881

A 727ii and woo ges will not drive an oo7. You will for sure max out the pot on quiet recordings. A used kgsshv or carbon is what you want for the 007.

If you want something easier to drive a 404le with a octavev2 amp is much less expensive and 90% a 007/kgsshv.


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## Sound Eq

georgep said:


> I appreciate that it is hard to distill all the different opinions on this site, but once you view certain members' opinions as sound, there is usually no changing your mind. As well, you may like a particular sound that aligns with those other members. So given that you love the Jade 2 and would put it above all other Stax including the 009 and L700 (but not the 007 MK2), then I would say you should skip the Carbon as it is not likely the amplifier you are looking for. It is also worth pointing out that "on the other forum" the GES isn't ridiculed (though some minor technical issues are pointed out), and is regarded as WOO's best electrostatic amplifier.


thanks for the answer, would you then recommend tube amps as GES as I like the 007TII sound, but I would like more power for my 007 mk2


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## georgep

The GES is really an entry level amp, a bit below the old KGSS (non-HV), and probably not much better (if at all) than your 007tII. For the last 6 or so years I have only had the T2 and Carbon (not as long as the T2 obviously), so can't offer much guidance to you.


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## VRacer-111

I will say that a Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 estat transformer + quality stereo amp of choice and a little bit of EQ is a great setup for an SR-007 Mk2 (and L300 Limited) if you are trying to keep costs down. Since the amp is the main driving force behind the sound you will be getting from the estats, just a matter of getting one that suits personal taste. There are many stereo amps available compared to Estat specific amps...much easier to find a lower cost, warm leaning high quality stereo amp.


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## Sound Eq

VRacer-111 said:


> I will say that a Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 estat transformer + quality stereo amp of choice and a little bit of EQ is a great setup for an SR-007 Mk2 (and L300 Limited) if you are trying to keep costs down. Since the amp is the main driving force behind the sound you will be getting from the estats, just a matter of getting one that suits personal taste. There are many stereo amps available compared to Estat specific amps...much easier to find a lower cost, warm leaning high quality stereo amp.


thanks, that could be an option as well, i am still waiting for a member here to compare iesl with his upcoming carbon, 

is the srd7 different from iesl


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## georgep

They are pretty much the same thing, other than the bias options.


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## Sound Eq

any feed back on this 

https://www.cplanaudio.co.za/collec...v-mark-3-headphone-amplifier-standard-edition


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## JimL11

The GES is based on Kevin Gilmore's all triode amp, which was one of his first designs. When he designed his KGSS, he felt it sounded better (with the SR-007 Mk I, which was the top of the line at the time) than his all triode amp. The KGSSHV and KGSS Carbon are advances on the original KGSS. The problem with the GES and the Stax tube output amps is they all use plate resistor outputs. All the Stax solid state amps and all the modern Gilmore amps including the KGST use current source loads, which more than doubles the effective output power of the amp because they are not wasting the majority of their power heating up the output resistors. In fact, just taking the SRM-T1, which is basically the same circuit as the 006 and 007, and replacing the output resistors with good cascode MOSFET current loads kicks it up to being able to drive the SR-007 adequately for most people. The modified T1 is essentially a lower power version of the KGST (6CG7 rather than 6S4A output tubes), but lacking the regulated power supply of the KGST.

IMHO, a modified T1 is the least expensive way to get an amp that will drive any Stax headphone - the cost is basically that of a used T1, plus another $100 in parts, which includes the cost of replacing all the power supply electrolytic capacitors, which needs to be done in an amp that is more than 25 years old anyway. If you don't want to DIY, any repair technician should be able to do the modification with a few hours work. If you already have an SRM-007, modifying it with current sources in place of its plate resistors will significantly improve its bass and high end, along with its ability to drive the 007.

Unlike @antimatter, I feel an SRM-727 with global feedback mod is capable of driving the SR-007, although I prefer the sound of a modified T1 - I had both, and sold the modified 727. 

As I have mentioned elsewhere, an SRX Plus is also a reasonably inexpensive amplifier that will drive any Stax headphone, however it is a DIY only design. It does have that tube tonality with very little of the stereotypical tube defects of soft bass and highs. 

Using the Stereophile ranking system, the SRX Plus would fit in class B along with the KGSSHV and KGST, while consensus class A amps would be the Carbon, BHSE, GG and Megatron, with many placing the T2 in class A+. 

There are a couple people (e.g. spritzer) who would put the T2 in class A with the other KG amps, and a few people who would rank the SRX Plus in the same category as the BHSE, but what I have written in the previous paragraph is what seems the most prevalent opinion.

Finally, it should be noted that with amps which are predominantly DIY, there may be small differences due to parts selection, and differences due to choice of regulated power supplies. Kevin Gilmore has designed several regulated power supplies of varying complexity and performance. KGSS Carbons often are built with his most sophisticated Golden Reference supplies, whereas the less costly KGSSHV and KGST are more commonly built with one of his lesser supplies, which may enhance the differences in performance between, say, a small KGST with a simple regulated supply versus a large KGSS Carbon with Golden Reference HV and LV regulated supplies.


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## Sound Eq (Apr 13, 2019)

JimL11 said:


> The GES is based on Kevin Gilmore's all triode amp, which was one of his first designs. When he designed his KGSS, he felt it sounded better (with the SR-007 Mk I, which was the top of the line at the time) than his all triode amp. The KGSSHV and KGSS Carbon are advances on the original KGSS. The problem with the GES and the Stax tube output amps is they all use plate resistor outputs. All the Stax solid state amps and all the modern Gilmore amps including the KGST use current source loads, which more than doubles the effective output power of the amp because they are not wasting the majority of their power heating up the output resistors. In fact, just taking the SRM-T1, which is basically the same circuit as the 006 and 007, and replacing the output resistors with good cascode MOSFET current loads kicks it up to being able to drive the SR-007 adequately for most people. The modified T1 is essentially a lower power version of the KGST (6CG7 rather than 6S4A output tubes), but lacking the regulated power supply of the KGST.
> 
> IMHO, a modified T1 is the least expensive way to get an amp that will drive any Stax headphone - the cost is basically that of a used T1, plus another $100 in parts, which includes the cost of replacing all the power supply electrolytic capacitors, which needs to be done in an amp that is more than 25 years old anyway. If you don't want to DIY, any repair technician should be able to do the modification with a few hours work. If you already have an SRM-007, modifying it with current sources in place of its plate resistors will significantly improve its bass and high end, along with its ability to drive the 007.
> 
> ...




thats so beneficial to read, thanks so much, somehow i am leaning to kgst, would its sound signature be similar to 007tii, but with more power am i right

i have both 323s and 007tii and i like the sound of the 007tii better with my 007mk2.

i dont know which is more powerful the 323s or 007tii, but i feel i have to turn the volume higher on 007tii than with 323s with my 007mk2, which is strange as the 323s is very cheap in comparison

so if we take the sound signature of my tube 007tii i am really fine with bass mids and details and I am not asking for more, its just I aim for more head room, thats all, although on the dial of my 007tii i barely go over 60-70% volume


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## buzzlulu

JimL11 said:


> SS Carbons often are built with his most sophisticated Golden Reference supplies, whereas the less costly KGSSHV and KGST are more commonly built with one of his lesser supplies, which may enhance the differences in performance between, say, a small KGST with a simple regulated supply versus a large KGSS Carbon with Golden Reference HV and LV regulated supplies.



I believe Birgir's Carbons (Carbon and CC)  use his own versions of the HV and LV supplies (?)  I have his "regular" Carbon.  I wonder how it compares (with his own power supplies) to a Carbon utilizing the Golden Reference ps's?


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## JimL11 (Apr 14, 2019)

Sound Eq said:


> thats so beneficial to read, thanks so much, somehow i am leaning to kgst, would its sound signature be similar to 007tii, but with more power am i right
> 
> i have both 323s and 007tii and i like the sound of the 007tii better with my 007mk2.
> 
> ...



The KGST should be the closest of the Gilmore amps to the 007 as the circuits are very similar, in fact as I recall, spritzer once described the KGST as the 007 if built with no commercial considerations, i.e. with more powerful tubes, constant current sources instead of plate resistors and regulated power supply in place of a passive one. 

If you look at Tyll's review of the 007 on InnerFidelity (https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...nd-great-headphone-amplifiers-stax-srm-727tii) you will note that he finds that at higher listening levels, the 007's bass becomes "wooly" and the treble becomes "glary." The KGST should fix these issues, which are likely due to the plate resistors in the 007 burning up signal current.


----------



## JimL11

Sound Eq said:


> thanks, that could be an option as well, i am still waiting for a member here to compare iesl with his upcoming carbon,
> 
> is the srd7 different from iesl



The SRD7 is the same concept as the iESL (both using a transformer to boost the voltage), but there may be some small differences due to the exact transformer used. Also, the SRD7 was made for normal bias Stax headphones (200-230VDC), whereas all the modern Stax headphones are Pro bias (580VDC). Stax did make an SRD7 MkII, also known as the SRD7 Pro, but those are relatively uncommon and usually more expensive. However IIRC they are not nearly as expensive as the iESL. All the Stax converter boxes are obsolete as Stax apparently decided that dedicated amps was a better way to go.


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## JimL11 (Apr 14, 2019)

Sound Eq said:


> any feed back on this
> 
> https://www.cplanaudio.co.za/collec...v-mark-3-headphone-amplifier-standard-edition



Never laid eyes on one so I have no idea how it sounds. However, I note that it draws 60 watts quiescent and 100 watts full load. This suggests that it may run in class AB, as class A amps have a constant power draw independent of load. All the other electrostatic headphone amps I am aware of run in class A. The Audiovalve Luminaire uses 4 PCL805 tubes so that is 21 watts of filament power which is used to heat the tubes. That leaves us with 39 to 79 watts used by the amp to power the headphones. Now class AB amps run in class A for lower powers so it is likely that the class A part of of its operation goes to about 39 watts.

By comparison, the Stax amps are specified as drawing between 30 (323) and 46 (727) watts, the measured line draw of one Carbon was 92 watts, and a Blue Hawaii SE is specified 180 watts. Note however that 40 watts of the Blue Hawaii power draw is due to its tube filaments. This suggests that the potential power of the Audiovalve is in the same ballpark as the Stax amps but not comparable to the Gilmore amps.

Finally, note that the Audiovalve uses a step-up transformer output for its electrostatic output and a step down transformer for its low impedance outputs. This increases its versatility at the cost of, well, greater cost, weight and size. And although the manufacturer claims that there are no compromises, IMO it is difficult enough to design a no compromise amplifier for one type of headphone, let alone three types with very different drive requirements. It seems to me that unless you simply must have only one amplifier to use with dynamic, planar and electrostatic headphones, it is better and potentially less expensive to have a dedicated amplifier for electrostatic headphones and a separate one for dynamic and planar headphones.




buzzlulu said:


> I believe Birgir's Carbons (Carbon and CC)  use his own versions of the HV and LV supplies (?)  I have his "regular" Carbon.  I wonder how it compares (with his own power supplies) to a Carbon utilizing the Golden Reference ps's?



Yes, I believe his mini chassis builds use a version of the original Blue Hawaii regulated power supply, which is a pretty basic series regulated supply, using a MOSFET sitting on top of a zener string driven by a constant current source as the voltage regulator. I believe he has stated that he doesn't find that much difference between regulated power supplies, so he prefers to build amps with more compact form factors - in fact they are often smaller than the current Stax amps which don't have any regulated power supplies at all. Note that Stax have made a similar decision for commercial reasons - they evidently don't feel that a regulated power supply is worth the additional cost, complexity and size in terms of commercial sales. Don't know what he uses for the CC Carbon, but it may be a version of the Golden Reference regulated supply using his own PCB design.


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## SeaWo|f (Apr 14, 2019)

JimL11 said:


> Don't know what he uses for the CC Carbon, but it may be a version of the Golden Reference regulated supply using his own PCB design.



I am pretty sure that around the time he started on the CC he stated exactly this in regard to the HV supply. I don't believe he has commented on the LV.

He has also said that the version of the amp board in the DYI carbon is an early design, which he has continued to develop and refine since.


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## Sound Eq (Apr 14, 2019)

what is so strange, and with all respect to all builders, but if one man show builders can build better amps than stax, then what the hell is stax doing who run a company and have more resources, that is just strange, that they make these headphones, and have no great amps to let people audition them with.

that is just strange, as stats are a niche segment, so its not like you can plug your headphones into so many different amps from other companies


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## bluesaint

Sound Eq said:


> what is so strange, and with all respect to all builders, but if one man show builders can build better amps than stax, then what the hell is stax doing who run a company and have more resources, that is just strange, that they make these headphones, and have no great amps to let people audition them with.
> 
> that is just strange, as stats are a niche segment, so its not like you can plug your headphones into so many different amps from other companies



it was stated before, the BOM to build a carbon or any of these tier1 amps after marketing, distribution, markups, etc etc would be prohibitively expensive if it was commercialized.  Btw, you aren't limited to just these amps if you go the energizer route.


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## SeaWo|f

bluesaint said:


> it was stated before, the BOM to build a carbon or any of these tier1 amps after marketing, distribution, markups, etc etc would be prohibitively expensive if it was commercialized.  Btw, you aren't limited to just these amps if you go the energizer route.



This in addition to mistakes in the design and packaging of the orginal SRM-T2 almost sunk Stax.


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## Sound Eq

bluesaint said:


> it was stated before, the BOM to build a carbon or any of these tier1 amps after marketing, distribution, markups, etc etc would be prohibitively expensive if it was commercialized.  Btw, you aren't limited to just these amps if you go the energizer route.



totally agree, awaiting your feedback and comparisons with ifi iesl as well


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## JimL11

SeaWo|f said:


> I am pretty sure that around the time he started on the CC he stated exactly this in regard to the HV supply. I don't believe he has commented on the LV.
> 
> He has also said that the version of the amp board in the DYI carbon is an early design, which he has continued to develop and refine since.



Yes, that was my impression also.



Sound Eq said:


> what is so strange, and with all respect to all builders, but if one man show builders can build better amps than stax, then what the hell is stax doing who run a company and have more resources, that is just strange, that they make these headphones, and have no great amps to let people audition them with.
> 
> that is just strange, as stats are a niche segment, so its not like you can plug your headphones into so many different amps from other companies



Not really that strange. As mentioned above, Stax got burned by their T2 experience, which sunk the company. The current Stax was re-formed after bankruptcy. They have focussed on commercial viability, so, for example, there is a benefit to using regulated supplies, but the extra cost and size may not be justified in a commercial amp. Consider that parts cost (including chassis) is only about 20% of the price of an amp.They have also chosen to use, until recently, a relatively small chassis, as larger, heavier amps are more expensive to ship. Also, Stax has mostly focussed on the Japanese market. The vast majority of that market is likely unaware of the existance of third party amps. 

A single builder does not have to worry about pricing in distributor costs and profit, dealer costs and profit, shipping multiple units to different parts of the world, paying a decent wage to its workers, withstanding changes in the world economy, etc. Kevin Gilmore designed his amps without much consideration of commercial costs - if he can do 5% better by spending 50% more he will do it - a company that is in business to make money will not. Another example: the KGST is designed to use a tube that is no longer in production. No commercial company can do that.


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## Sound Eq

JimL11 said:


> Yes, that was my impression also.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


just curious would you say just part costs of a carbon could be 1.5k  usd, if you opt to chose the materials as the carbon by mojilier


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## Sound Eq (Apr 14, 2019)

can someone link me to where they talk bout modding the 007tii is, and what parts to buy


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## JimL11 (Apr 15, 2019)

Sound Eq said:


> just curious would you say just part costs of a carbon could be 1.5k  usd, if you opt to chose the materials as the carbon by mojilier



I have never built one so I have no idea, but on the other website there is a whole thread on building one, you can ask there.



Sound Eq said:


> can someone link me to where they talk bout modding the 007tii is, and what parts to buy



If you are talking about the constant current mod, there is no website. I published an article on modifying the T1 in AudioXpress in July 2017, which can be adapted to the 007tii by changing the value of the current load from 4.8mA to around 9.5 mA. This will involve some experimentation to determine the value of the current setting resistor. The physical arrangement of the heatsinks can be similar to the photo that I posted of spritzer's mod some pages previously.


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## iamalex

Sound Eq said:


> any feed back on this
> 
> https://www.cplanaudio.co.za/collec...v-mark-3-headphone-amplifier-standard-edition



I had one and didn't get too comfortable with it. Had to change the printed board, and needed *two attempts *to do so - the first time they said that everything was running properly


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## PointyFox

> Note: Thus is *L U  M I N A R E*  theONE AND ONLY  headphone amplifier onthe market that is able to drive all standardheadphone loads, starting from 3ohm up to145.000 ohms.



Hmm..


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## paradoxper

PointyFox said:


> Hmm..


Don't even give it a second thought. PASS.


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## Ombroratto

Hello everyone, I'm new in this forum so I'm not really sure if what I'm about to ask should be posted here or in a dedicated thread, so forgive me if I have been wrong. I'm thinking of buying a pair of L700s but I can't decide which amp to buy: my main options are D50 (I need a DAC too), 353x (+ something like the SU-8) or a Mjölnir Octave 2 (again, + SU-8). My doubts mainly concern the last one because I have read in various discussions that Stax amplifiers are not up to par with other solutions like the BHSE or the KGSSHV Carbon ec.. That's why I started looking ad the Octave 2 but I can't find any review of it, except for some comments. Has anyone had a chance to try it and maybe compare it with other models?


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## TheDuke990

PointyFox said:


> Note: Thus is *L U M I N A R E* theONE AND ONLY headphone amplifier onthe market that is able to drive all standardheadphone loads, starting from 3ohm up to145.000 ohms.



Not quite right, the AudioValve Solaris can handle all as well  . I'm kidding .
He is the big brother of Luminare. I know it because the factory of AudioValve is only 20km away from my house and I own one (Solaris) and my L700 sounds great with it .


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## urs (Apr 18, 2019)

TheDuke990 said:


> Not quite right, the AudioValve Solaris can handle all as well  . I'm kidding .
> He is the big brother of Luminare. I know it because the factory of AudioValve is only 20km away from my house and I own one (Solaris) and my L700 sounds great with it .




Another German Tube Amp manufacturer has one of those “Multi-purpose” Headphone amps:
MalValve, with the latest model being the HA 3

http://www.malvalve.de/Headamp3-E.htm


Regards

Urs


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## bluesaint

iESL powered by high quality speaker amp is just as good if not better than carbon/bhse as it's as good as the amp powering the energizer.  It has both pro output and dynamic/planar 4 pin XLR output.


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## SeaWo|f

bluesaint said:


> iESL powered by high quality speaker amp is just as good if not better than carbon/bhse as it's as good as the amp powering the energizer.


I suspect this opinion is shared by few


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## bluesaint

SeaWo|f said:


> I suspect this opinion is shared by few


It matters little to me who shares it. It's my opinion backed by what I hear.

Theres another member with carbon CC and shares the same:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-pro-iesl-the-official-thread.852364/page-7#post-14431872


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## JimL11

bluesaint said:


> It matters little to me who shares it. It's my opinion backed by what I hear.
> 
> Theres another member with carbon CC and shares the same:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-pro-iesl-the-official-thread.852364/page-7#post-14431872



So, basically, the member with the carbon CC says that the iESL combined with two amps, the Viva Egoista or the Pass CX mono blocks, which cost $6000 and $20,000 respectively, sound as good or better than the carbon CC. A nice budget combination there.


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## bluesaint (Apr 18, 2019)

JimL11 said:


> So, basically, the member with the carbon CC says that the iESL combined with two amps, the Viva Egoista or the Pass CX mono blocks, which cost $6000 and $20,000 respectively, sound as good or better than the carbon CC. A nice budget combination there.



Who said anything about budget? Simply stating what I personally hear and pointed to another member. My single amp with iesl can power speakers, Raal SR1a, my 009, and planars.  Much more versatile than being stuck with estat only no?

Lastly the main point is to point out theres options beyond KG designed amps.  And isnt that the point of these forums to share what are all the options out there and not be so close minded?


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## staticdynamo

New products. STAX SR-L700Mk2 and L-500Mk2 will be released in June.  Changeable cable, and case holder is made from aluminum.  

https://stax-international.com/products/sr-l700mk2/


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## protoss

*FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

For "F" sake Staxs !! You finally got out of your basement and remade 1993 fantasy come true again!!
*
Welcome to 2019 staxs!!*


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## protoss (Apr 19, 2019)

Dear Stax,

Now we need,

More different 000 series! 011, 013, 015, lets step this up a bit, *with changeable cables!!*

More lower end version's! Bring back gammas, alphas, and sigmas, *with changeable cables!!*
Also update these versions! Enhance them, make them modern and high-end!


Make your statement product "Omega" homage to 1993
Make your flagships "000" series, *with changeable cables!!*


Thx
Pro"

P.S. *it will be nice if you have different cable options stax!! Time to step it up please. *


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## staticdynamo

In STAX's English page, some information of SR-L700 Mk2.


 

https://stax-international.com/products/sr-l700mk2/


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## Ombroratto

bluesaint said:


> Who said anything about budget? Simply stating what I personally hear and pointed to another member. My single amp with iesl can power speakers, Raal SR1a, my 009, and planars.  Much more versatile than being stuck with estat only no?
> 
> Lastly the main point is to point out theres options beyond KG designed amps.  And isnt that the point of these forums to share what are all the options out there and not be so close minded?



Was your advice to me?


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## TypodCrowd (Apr 19, 2019)

staticdynamo said:


> New products. STAX SR-L700Mk2 and L-500Mk2 will be released in June.  Changeable cable, and case holder is made from aluminum.
> 
> https://stax-international.com/products/sr-l700mk2/



I have to say, this is exciting. I did this to my L700 about 8 months ago. Mode modding ahead.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/detachable-stax-l700-boom.886118/


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## Ombroratto

It's great news, at this point I'll wait for the mk2. Do you think there will be a price increase?


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## Ojisan

The Japanese retail shows the same price (148,000yen before tax) which is a nice move by Stax. Hopefully, the exchange won't play negatively elsewhere.


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## Sound Eq

Greetings, how does stax 407 compare to stax 404 LE sound wise

Any mods for stax 407, like changing pads that improves it sound


----------



## georgep

Sound Eq said:


> Greetings, how does stax 407 compare to stax 404 LE sound wise
> 
> Any mods for stax 407, like changing pads that improves it sound



No amount of modding will make the 407 sound as good as the 404le... unless you also swap the 407 drivers for 404le drivers.


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## Sound Eq

georgep said:


> No amount of modding will make the 407 sound as good as the 404le... unless you also swap the 407 drivers for 404le drivers.


knew that answer will be given 
but how they differ


----------



## ahmedie

I eq bass about 6dp+ more but on some music the low frequencies causes stax fart speciall at higher volume, does higher amp (kggshv etc.) fix that to some extent ? Thank you !


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## astrostar59 (Apr 25, 2019)

Two things are happening here.

1. EQ addition will lift the digital data to above 0db level which will cause distortion and clipping. Mot modern recordings are very code to maximum 0db already.
2. The Stax panel has it's own limits on extension and dynamics. So it can reproduce a certain level of bass response and then go into distortion.

The amplifier has less of a problem with this, as has more headroom for it. A better amp won't help reduce 1 & 2, but you will get better FR and bass / dynamics generally with a better amp from a Stax amp v any of the KG amps.

If you feel you need more bass / weight / mass to the notes and generally a less light and floaty sound, look at Planars.


----------



## ahmedie

Sound Eq said:


> knew that answer will be given
> but how they differ


404le is smooth and warm, they have very thick and weighty bass (than other stax, comparatively), resemble dynamic/planer, they almost sound as dark as lcd2 but far exceed it in every technical category. I still prefer L300LE with mod and tube re-amp and loki (so out of box 404le is a better headphone). l404le sound better for EDM and similarly tuned music.


astrostar59 said:


> Two things are happening here.
> 
> 1. EQ addition will lift the digital data to above 0db level which will cause distortion and clipping. Mot modern recordings are very code to maximum 0db already.
> 2. The Stax panel has it's own limits on extension and dynamics. So it can reproduce a certain level of bass response and then go into distortion.
> ...



Thank you very much for detailed answer, actually I am using an analog eq (loki, low shelf) with a tube pre amp to thicken the bass, I think I am hitting the limitation of the driver extension mentioned at 2. Ye I think I am looking for more dynamic bass. I agree with you in regard to planer exceptional bass. When I auditioned meze empyrean, it literately moved air, with multiple layers and layers of bass that overlap, feel like been hit by ocean waves from many directions(like literally), each bass note was still distinct from each other.


----------



## Sound Eq (Apr 25, 2019)

ahmedie said:


> 404le is smooth and warm, they have very thick and weighty bass (than other stax, comparatively), resemble dynamic/planer, they almost sound as dark as lcd2 but far exceed it in every technical category. I still prefer L300LE with mod and tube re-amp and loki (so out of box 404le is a better headphone). l404le sound better for EDM and similarly tuned music.
> 
> 
> Thank you very much for detailed answer, actually I am using an analog eq (loki, low shelf) with a tube pre amp to thicken the bass, I think I am hitting the limitation of the driver extension mentioned at 2. Ye I think I am looking for more dynamic bass. I agree with you in regard to planer exceptional bass. When I auditioned meze empyrean, it literately moved air, with multiple layers and layers of bass that overlap, feel like been hit by ocean waves from many directions(like literally), each bass note was still distinct from each other.



what mod for l300le, i changed l300le pads and use l700 pads, any other mod u suggest

i had empyrean and sold it and my 007mk2 trumps it totally and nothing gives me joy as 007 mk2, i had alot of totl planars look at my inventory list, and only 2 are great he1000se and audeze mx4, but 1000se is better than mx4 so i am selling mx4


----------



## georgep

ahmedie said:


> I eq bass about 6dp+ more but on some music the low frequencies causes stax fart speciall at higher volume, does higher amp (kggshv etc.) fix that to some extent ? Thank you !



The "stax fart" is caused by the dust covers. It is a crinkling sound - are you sure this is what you are hearing? Which headphone are you experiencing this with?  And what amp are you using (which could be clipping if you are forcing it to do things it can't)?


----------



## ahmedie

georgep said:


> The "stax fart" is caused by the dust covers. It is a crinkling sound - are you sure this is what you are hearing? Which headphone are you experiencing this with?  And what amp are you using (which could be clipping if you are forcing it to do things it can't)?


I think I am hearing driver distortion . I am using L300LE and stax`s 323s amp


----------



## georgep

You might want to try it without the tube preamp.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Apr 25, 2019)

ahmedie said:


> I eq bass about 6dp+ more but on some music the low frequencies causes stax fart speciall at higher volume, does higher amp (kggshv etc.) fix that to some extent ? Thank you !



The only STAX farts I've had is when they were sealed 100%...any movement would cause them, way too annoying with fully sealed pads. Since taking 2 segments out of the Fun-tack ring there is zero STAX farts and noticeable increase in bass. I do listen at a lower level, and only have +3.5db lower shelf @57Hz & +1.5db peak @ 82Hz. Bass from the modded L300 Limited is 404LE level, but has better overall sound with larger presentation space and much better imaging.

If you are getting that from current setup, you will get it and more from a more powerful setup. The better amps than the SRM-323S (that's what I started off with) will get you more bass impact and punch with a fuller, smoother sound and better extension. My L300 Limited hits absolutely hard and solid on my setup, outdoing any of the planar magnetics I've heard from Audeze. Best bass I've heard period has been from my rig and a STAX SR-007 Mark2, the modded L300 Limiteds are right behind it.


----------



## Sound Eq

VRacer-111 said:


> The only STAX farts I've had is when they were sealed 100%...any movement would cause them, way too annoying with fully sealed pads. Since taking 2 segments out of the Fun-tack ring there is zero STAX farts and noticeable increase in bass. I do listen at a lower level, and only have +3.5db lower shelf @57Hz & +1.5db peak @ 82Hz. Bass from the modded L300 Limited is 404LE level, but has better overall sound with larger presentation space and much better imaging.
> 
> If you are getting that from current setup, you will get it and more from a more powerful setup. The better amps than the SRM-323S (that's what I started off with) will get you more bass impact and punch with a fuller, smoother sound and better extension. My L300 Limited hits absolutely hard and solid on my setup, outdoing any of the planar magnetics I've heard from Audeze. Best bass I've heard period has been from my rig and a STAX SR-007 Mark2, the modded L300 Limiteds are right behind it.



hi what mod did you do to your L300LE


----------



## GarageBoy

The new swivels are more exciting than the removable cables. Hoping they fit better


----------



## VRacer-111 (Apr 26, 2019)

Sound Eq said:


> hi what mod did you do to your L300LE



L700 headband/earpads + This


----------



## Sound Eq

VRacer-111 said:


> L700 headband/earpads + This


i have the l700 pads, so now i will buy the blu tuck thing, but what is meant by being slow with mod


----------



## VRacer-111

Sound Eq said:


> i have the l700 pads, so now i will buy the blu tuck thing, but what is meant by being slow with mod



Like there is just a tad more resistance of movement with the driver...it's a feel thing, but only feel that way when its fully sealed which isn't ideal. Best to leave a small gap of two walled segments in length for better bass and no slowed down feeling. I'll be doing the same Blu-tack mod to an L300 tomorrow and take pictures of the gap to show what I mean.


----------



## Sound Eq

VRacer-111 said:


> Like there is just a tad more resistance of movement with the driver...it's a feel thing, but only feel that way when its fully sealed which isn't ideal. Best to leave a small gap of two walled segments in length for better bass and no slowed down feeling. I'll be doing the same Blu-tack mod to an L300 tomorrow and take pictures of the gap to show what I mean.


great plz send pics, does the mod material matter in anything


----------



## JimL11

ahmedie said:


> I eq bass about 6dp+ more but on some music the low frequencies causes stax fart speciall at higher volume, does higher amp (kggshv etc.) fix that to some extent ? Thank you !



We can look at the headroom, roughly, by using the power supply voltages. For example, the Stax 007 and 727 use +/-350V, the BHSE +/-400V, the Carbon +/-40 to 450 volts and the T2 +/-500 volts. Maximum voltage swing is approximately 4x the positive voltage (amplifier is balanced out, so one output swings between, say, +400 and -400 while the other swings between-400 and +400). So the additional output of the T2 above the 727, for example, is the ratio between 50 and 35, or approximately 43%. This works out to about 3 dB increase in maximum volume before clipping, so a T2 will help a bit but not a lot.

OTOH, the loudest frequencies in music tend to occur in the mid bass to lower midrange, say from 50-300 Hz (roughly from the lowest G# to middle D on a piano). Also note that for the same output, the maximum excursion of the diaphragms occurs at bass frequencies, the lower the greater, by a ratio of 1/(f*f) [f squared]. This means that the likelihood of the diaphragm clipping (i.e. hitting the stators) is most likely in the bass. This could cause a noise that might be interpreted as the Stax fart, although I have no personal experience as I've never played loudly enough to cause this issue - nor should you, for the long term health of your ears.

Finally, a 6dB increase in EQ amounts to 4x the power and 2x the voltage compared to flat. Combined with playing loudly this migh, or might not, be enough to cause amp or headphone clipping.


----------



## Quixote79

JimL11 said:


> Maximum voltage swing is approximately 4x the positive voltage (amplifier is balanced out, so one output swings between, say, +400 and -400 while the other swings between-400 and +400).



me not understood....you mean is 4x 400 = 1600? .... if one is -400 and other is +400 there are 800 diferennce


----------



## kevin gilmore (Apr 27, 2019)

the output is balanced. So with +/-400v power supplies the maximum voltage swing can be 1600 volts peak to peak measured stator to stator.

Which is why some people who like it loud don't like the D10 which is only 700 VPPSS


----------



## Thaudiophile

Are there any builders who can build me a SRX plus?


----------



## Sound Eq

VRacer-111 said:


> Like there is just a tad more resistance of movement with the driver...it's a feel thing, but only feel that way when its fully sealed which isn't ideal. Best to leave a small gap of two walled segments in length for better bass and no slowed down feeling. I'll be doing the same Blu-tack mod to an L300 tomorrow and take pictures of the gap to show what I mean.


any update on mod pics plz


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## VRacer-111 (May 11, 2019)

1.






2. One stick works for both cups, break stick in half:





3. Roll out a 1/2 stick to where it fits on inner channel like shown below:





4. Break segment off that is little less than 2 ribs of the channel. Will need to have it a little longer than the rib walls so it can seal against them.





5. Roll the piece broken off so it will attach to both ends of the original thicker segment that was rolled out:





6. Press it down and flatten to where it's sticking just above the channel by about a millimeter or so, and push the overhanging ends flush against the surface of the two ribs to seal. Make sure to keep the two rear peg hole clear of the putty:





7. Alternate view:





8. Press on pads at the corners, then work front to rear to press a finger inside pad on the plastic pad plate and press it hard into the cup/grille to seal pads to the housing. Keep working around the inside perimeter until you have it seated as far as it will go, then flatten the oozed seam against the inside perimeter wall with a finger. Hard to get a picture of this, but basically if you can see the putty below then your finger will go above it and under the pad and firmly press down towards the outside...just take your time and use care as you go around the perimeter, no need to rush.





9. Repeat for other side to complete.... then you're finished.


----------



## tumpux

I appreciate the effort to document the mod process.
Now, if we have an updated tutorial on how to blutac mod the 007..


----------



## PointyFox

What needs to be updated?


----------



## BreadMaster

PointyFox said:


> What needs to be updated?


Your dac and amp.


----------



## PointyFox

BreadMaster said:


> Your dac and amp.


?


----------



## BreadMaster

Stax SR-007+ KG Carbon+ $1500 Dac = Gateway to heaven


----------



## PointyFox

BreadMaster said:


> Stax SR-007+ KG Carbon+ $1500 Dac = Gateway to heaven



Oh really? I'm guessing you've never even heard the SRM-D50.


----------



## Sound Eq (May 1, 2019)

VRacer-111 said:


> 1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks so much a very interesting mod worth trying, and what did change in sound when you updated your mod to this


----------



## BrintaVett

Hi all,

I'm in the process of completely rebuilding a Stax SRM1-MK2 pro. I've replaced all resistors and caps as well as a few of the diodes. However some parts are hard to find as some of you probably know.

I'm just a hobbyist and do not have all the knowledge but I tried finding alternatives for the 2SD755 bipolar transistors but I can't seem to find bipolars with the high Ft (350Mhz) of the originals. Would it make a big difference if I'd use replacements which have an Ft of say 200MHz? I Also would like to know if someone can recommend replacement for the RA-1Z diodes and the two Toshiba 1S1553 Zener diodes. I did find a source for the 2SC3148's and 2SA1156's. 

I searched the net for a few weeks now so I'm not trying to take the easy way out but as there are so many different versions and revisions I thought it would help to post the specific parts...

Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## florence

Hi,

I have a question guys.

I have L700 and SR507 using with SRM300 and idsd micro black.

Recently I am about to change my ring with the followings:

Swap L700 + SR507 + cash(+/-?) for SR007 mk2,
Upgrading from SRM300 to KGSHHV,
Sidegrade/downgrade or upgrade from idsd micro black to Denafrips Ares for using XLR output with the new amp.

I listened to SR007mk2 with KGSHHV carbon and quite like it. My question is whether I am on the right path. Thanks in advance!


----------



## nazrin313

florence said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a question guys.
> 
> ...



I think you wont much better than that TBH. Ive been listening to the SR007mk1 and the KGSSHV for over a month now, its bloody excellent. None of my my other gear now, gets any ear time


----------



## florence

nazrin313 said:


> I think you wont much better than that TBH. Ive been listening to the SR007mk1 and the KGSSHV for over a month now, its bloody excellent. None of my my other gear now, gets any ear time


Thanks. Have you ever combined sr007 with another amp before?


----------



## nazrin313

florence said:


> Thanks. Have you ever combined sr007 with another amp before?


Yeah my old Srm252s, sounded way ok at low volumes but trouble came when its past 12, distortion city I tell ya. But I guess, we already know the 252s cant drive the hungry beast. Only did it cos it was the only Estat amp I had at the time while waiting for the KSSSHV to arrive


----------



## mulveling (May 4, 2019)

florence said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a question guys.
> 
> ...


Yes, that's a good path. The 007 and KGSShv (most variants) makes a very good pairing; much better than the older KGSS. It's just that the 007 with KGSShv Carbon is even better - and makes for one of the best setups you can put together short of a DIY T2 (with 007, 009). BTW, the KG amps like this don't care if you input a single-ended or balanced signal. It's the same sound quality either way - no penalty, which is certainly NOT the case with many other balanced amps. If your new KGSShv amp comes only with XLR inputs, you can use RCA female to XLR male adapters no problem (I use Cardas to satisfy my psychological need for fancy cables & connectors, but Neutrik work fine too). So choose your DAC based on sound quality and features, not single-ended vs. balanced.

I also have the L700 and like them, but for me they sound best with tubes. I didn't think the KGSShv was an optimal pairing for them. So moving for the 007 at the same time is a good idea.


----------



## powertoold (May 5, 2019)

I have KGSSHV 500V with 007mk1 and a balanced DAC. It's my endgame. Been using it over a year now. Love it every time, every day. People say with high end equip, you need "good" recordings; not true at all with this setup. The 007mk1 sounds good with everything. YMMV though, it's tough to find a "perfect" 007mk1. I bought mine NOS.

Edit: Balanced DAC with XLR output (has double the power vs. RCA output)

Edit 2: I don't use the fabric dust covers in my 007mk1. YOLO, and if you take good care of it and are mindful of it, I don't think it'll cause any issues. I think the clarity is increased quite a bit without the fabric dust cover.


----------



## Lv100Pidgeot

I've had a nagging question at the back of my mind for a while now, hoping someone here can answer it. A lot of people here tend to think that KG amps are flat out better than Stax amps, citing specifically their higher power output. I listen to my L300LE/353X combo at a very low output level (knob below 8:00) and I'm wondering if I would actually reap any benefit from switching amps or if that money would be better spent elsewhere?


----------



## buzzlulu

It's not about volume.  I have a L300LE/353XBK here and when I take the L300 and put it on a Carbon it becomes a different beast


----------



## powertoold

Lv100Pidgeot said:


> I've had a nagging question at the back of my mind for a while now, hoping someone here can answer it. A lot of people here tend to think that KG amps are flat out better than Stax amps, citing specifically their higher power output. I listen to my L300LE/353X combo at a very low output level (knob below 8:00) and I'm wondering if I would actually reap any benefit from switching amps or if that money would be better spent elsewhere?



Yeah it's definitely not about volume. It's more about distortion at the higher volumes. Even though you might not hear the distortion directly, I believe some level of distortion will affect the soundstage and imaging, etc. It also depends a lot on what model of stax you're using. For you, listening at 8:00 or below, you wouldn't reap much benefit of getting a kgsshv IMO.


----------



## Scgorg

I will contribute with a personal anecdote. I've listened to the SR-507 out of an SRD-7, a 006t, and a KGSSHV. On higher volumes the differences were there, but here we are talking 10:30-11:00 on the KGSSHV, which is louder than I'd ever listen, compared to the 006t the difference still wasn't huge and it became vanishingly small at very low volumes (sub 9:00) to the point where I don't think I would pass a blind test. I don't think forking out 2k+ for the KGSSHV is worth it in any capacity for a low level listener with the L300LE. I would prioritize upgrading the headphones themselves any day.


----------



## georgep

Scgorg said:


> I will contribute with a personal anecdote. I've listened to the SR-507 out of an SRD-7, a 006t, and a KGSSHV. On higher volumes the differences were there, but here we are talking 10:30-11:00 on the KGSSHV, which is louder than I'd ever listen, compared to the 006t the difference still wasn't huge and it became vanishingly small at very low volumes (sub 9:00) to the point where I don't think I would pass a blind test. I don't think forking out 2k+ for the KGSSHV is worth it in any capacity for a low level listener with the L300LE. I would prioritize upgrading the headphones themselves any day.



Yes, you should for sure change out the sr507 for something else before upgrading amplifiers - that one was a bit of a failure unfortunately.


----------



## Scgorg

georgep said:


> Yes, you should for sure change out the sr507 for something else before upgrading amplifiers - that one was a bit of a failure unfortunately.


Absolutely, the SR-507 isn't mine, it belongs to a friend. I did write up my thoughts about it on reddit. I thought it had really good bass for a lambda but what in the **** did they do to the rest of it I don't know.


----------



## Sound Eq (May 5, 2019)

Lv100Pidgeot said:


> I've had a nagging question at the back of my mind for a while now, hoping someone here can answer it. A lot of people here tend to think that KG amps are flat out better than Stax amps, citing specifically their higher power output. I listen to my L300LE/353X combo at a very low output level (knob below 8:00) and I'm wondering if I would actually reap any benefit from switching amps or if that money would be better spent elsewhere?



i was debating upgrading my chord hugo2--- stax 007tii setup and get one of the carbon or blue hawaii amps, i used to listen to my 007mk2 at bout 60% of the volume to levels that are mid loud, then i got a gustard x20 dac that i connected balanced to my 007tii and i barely reach now 35% on the volume dial, which is dam amazing. I see no need for any other stax amp or carbon, as I like the sound signature of the 007tii sound alot and have so much headroom left on the volume


----------



## VRacer-111

Low volume listener as well, had the SRM-323S at around the #2 marking indicator for listening (~9:00). From my experience, going from a STAX SRM-323S to an NAD C275BEE stereo amp + Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 is about improved low end, punchier midbass, and a fuller & slightly smoother overall sound with my modded SR-L300 Limited. Was more than worth it to me as already had the NAD amp for my HT setup, just needed to purchase the Mjolnir SRD-7 to use the amp in an Estat rig...


----------



## paradoxper

Yeaaa. Listen to a T2 and tell me you don't want it louder without realizing a thing!


----------



## mulveling (May 5, 2019)

Sound Eq said:


> i was debating upgrading my chord hugo2--- stax 007tii setup and get one of the carbon or blue hawaii amps, i used to listen to my 007mk2 at bout 60% of the volume to levels that are mid loud, then i got a gustard x20 dac that i connected balanced to my 007tii and i barely reach now 35% on the volume dial, which is dam amazing. I see no need for any other stax amp or carbon, as I like the sound signature of the 007tii sound alot and have so much headroom left on the volume


Your new DAC gave you higher gain, but not any more headroom. The KG amps will give lower distortion, better control, and better sound even well below clipping levels. But yes, the difference becomes more profound as you increase listening levels.


----------



## Sound Eq

mulveling said:


> Your new DAC gave you higher gain, but not any more headroom. The KG amps will give lower distortion, better control, and better sound even well below clipping levels. But yes, the difference becomes more profound as you increase listening levels.



thanks for clarifying this, for me even without gustard dac i barely used to reach 60% on my stax 007tii amp, i think i will just forget buying an amp for a while, as the prices of those mentioned amps are very high anyway


----------



## statfi

Sound Eq said:


> i was debating upgrading my chord hugo2--- stax 007tii setup and get one of the carbon or blue hawaii amps, i used to listen to my 007mk2 at bout 60% of the volume to levels that are mid loud, then i got a gustard x20 dac that i connected balanced to my 007tii and i barely reach now 35% on the volume dial, which is dam amazing. I see no need for any other stax amp or carbon, as I like the sound signature of the 007tii sound alot and have so much headroom left on the volume


Just a reminder: the volume control is a gain control and not a power control.  Where you have it set is *not* an indication of how hard you are driving the amplifier, or whether you are clipping it or how close you are to clipping it or how much headroom you have left.  The volume control is a gain control.  For example it allows you to accommodate source components that have different gains, and recordings that have different levels.  This is precisely what you observed when you changed source components and needed to use a different gain setting.  Just because you have lots of rotation left on the volume control is absolutely no indication of much of the capability of the amp you are using or whether another amp might sound better.   When you changed sources you did not change the output capability.


----------



## mulveling (May 5, 2019)

powertoold said:


> I have KGSSHV 500V with 007mk1 and a balanced DAC. It's my endgame. Been using it over a year now. Love it every time, every day. People say with high end equip, you need "good" recordings; not true at all with this setup. The 007mk1 sounds good with everything. YMMV though, it's tough to find a "perfect" 007mk1. I bought mine NOS.
> 
> Edit: Balanced DAC with XLR output (has double the power vs. RCA output)
> 
> Edit 2: I don't use the fabric dust covers in my 007mk1. YOLO, and if you take good care of it and are mindful of it, I don't think it'll cause any issues. I think the clarity is increased quite a bit without the fabric dust cover.


I had that same setup - 500V IXYS KGSShv, and a pristine 007 Mk I. I can confirm it's a great pairing. Of the 4 or 5 KGSShv flavors I heard, that 500V was my favorite for the 007 Mk I. The amp is also nice with 009 and Lambda Pro. I prefer the 009, but kinda wish I still had my 007 some days! Would love to hear them again now on my georgep DIY T2.

And again, you'll get up to 4x the gain from a DAC's balanced outputs vs. single-ended, but you don't get any more power at your disposal unless you were maxing out you volume control and still needed more (unlikely). That said, if you have balanced outputs, it's usually best to use them - but that's more a function of the source's circuit design and interconnects, as either signal is equally fine for input to the KG* amps. Admittedly I do like the psychological aspect of having high gain and not needed to push the volume control up to get loud.


----------



## Dan Lee

Hello my fellow Stax friends.  I am the recipient of a brand new KGSSHV Carbon and am not 100% sure what to make of it as of yet.  I am not sure if I am connecting things correctly or missing something completely.  I have been using the ifi iDSD Pro for my DAC duties and the ifi iCAN Pro for amp duties and have enjoyed those very much with my planar cans.  I had a lot of time spent with them while waiting the 2.5 months for my Carbon to be built.  When I got it I started by running the idsd to the ican like normal and then running the ican to the carbon through the ican output.  Im not sure if that is the correct way to use the ican as a pass through or not.  I have been told that I can use the ican as a pass through but not sure that was the right way to do it.  So I took the ican out of the chain so I could at least hear the Carbon.  

Running just the Carbon and the iDSD it was pretty easy to tell the Carbon was a great deal better then the iESL that I was previously using.  The Carbon has made details come through clearer at least in the top end.  The bottom end however seems rather anemic.  I have used the hifiman shangri-la jr and my stax sr-009.  The Hifiman has an incredibly spatial sound to it with a very nice richness to it.  Bass is almost nonexistent on this thing however and that seems to take a great deal from the listening experience.  The 009 has a more intimate soundstage but that seems to bring some details out a little more clearly which is also nice.  Though the bass on the 009's is better it is definitely still not there in a way that made so many tracks I love sound so wonderful overall with my LCD-4's and Ether 2's.  So I went to test this to make sure its not just my ears playing tricks on me and put ican and idsd back together and ran the planars thinking Id hear bliss again.  Low and behold the excellence of the top end I am receiving from the Carbon made the sound from the ican and idsd sound dull all around.  

This is where I kinda freaked out a little bit as I seem to have just put myself into a situation in which I literally have no happy medium.  Planars while still having bass sound dull without the power of Carbon, but stats have lovely top with a bottom that kills dynamic beauty for me.  

Can someone help me out here.  Is there a way to put the carbon in the chain with my ican and idsd so as to possibly employ bass boost from the ican to the stats and possibly siphon some power from the carbon for when i run my planars.  I am open to any and all of your expert and well experienced input.  

Thanks Dan Moser


----------



## BreadMaster

Dan Lee said:


> Hello my fellow Stax friends.  I am the recipient of a brand new KGSSHV Carbon and am not 100% sure what to make of it as of yet.  I am not sure if I am connecting things correctly or missing something completely.  I have been using the ifi iDSD Pro for my DAC duties and the ifi iCAN Pro for amp duties and have enjoyed those very much with my planar cans.  I had a lot of time spent with them while waiting the 2.5 months for my Carbon to be built.  When I got it I started by running the idsd to the ican like normal and then running the ican to the carbon through the ican output.  Im not sure if that is the correct way to use the ican as a pass through or not.  I have been told that I can use the ican as a pass through but not sure that was the right way to do it.  So I took the ican out of the chain so I could at least hear the Carbon.
> 
> Running just the Carbon and the iDSD it was pretty easy to tell the Carbon was a great deal better then the iESL that I was previously using.  The Carbon has made details come through clearer at least in the top end.  The bottom end however seems rather anemic.  I have used the hifiman shangri-la jr and my stax sr-009.  The Hifiman has an incredibly spatial sound to it with a very nice richness to it.  Bass is almost nonexistent on this thing however and that seems to take a great deal from the listening experience.  The 009 has a more intimate soundstage but that seems to bring some details out a little more clearly which is also nice.  Though the bass on the 009's is better it is definitely still not there in a way that made so many tracks I love sound so wonderful overall with my LCD-4's and Ether 2's.  So I went to test this to make sure its not just my ears playing tricks on me and put ican and idsd back together and ran the planars thinking Id hear bliss again.  Low and behold the excellence of the top end I am receiving from the Carbon made the sound from the ican and idsd sound dull all around.
> 
> ...


Lolololol upgrade your source.


----------



## Dan Lee

So you think the iDSD is the thing holding everything back if I understanding you correctly?  Is a source really going to dramatically change bass extension?  What about trying to put the iCAN into the chain?


----------



## mulveling

Yep you'll hear source differences like never before with a great Stax chain like that. Potentially you may still crave more bass than even a great Stax setup will yield, which would be a sad state to be in, as you noted - there's perhaps no going back once you've experienced the Stax detail, speed, and clarity. And fortunately for me, it's plenty of bass. You may also be one of those who prefers the 007 over 009 - the former has more "bloom" to its bass, though I love how hard clean and fast the 009/009S bass hits, particularly with the Carbon. Give it some time, too - "brain burn in" is real. 

And if crazy enough, you can always end up pursing a DIY T2 build, which is absolutely THE last word in sound quality and bass for Stax headphones


----------



## Sound Eq

Dan Lee said:


> So you think the iDSD is the thing holding everything back if I understanding you correctly?  Is a source really going to dramatically change bass extension?  What about trying to put the iCAN into the chain?



so can u just take it step by step and tell us

ifi ican pro-- ifi iesl--- ifi idsd pro--- how did that set up compare to just idsd pro carbon, can you give more detail, did you loose bass in carbon and idsd pro


----------



## Sound Eq (May 5, 2019)

mulveling said:


> Yep you'll hear source differences like never before with a great Stax chain like that. Potentially you may still crave more bass than even a great Stax setup will yield, which would be a sad state to be in, as you noted - there's perhaps no going back once you've experienced the Stax detail, speed, and clarity. And fortunately for me, it's plenty of bass. You may also be one of those who prefers the 007 over 009 - the former has more "bloom" to its bass, though I love how hard clean and fast the 009/009S bass hits, particularly with the Carbon. Give it some time, too - "brain burn in" is real.
> 
> And if crazy enough, you can always end up pursing a DIY T2 build, which is absolutely THE last word in sound quality and bass for Stax headphones



i crave no more bass even in my simple setup chord hugo2 --- stax 007tii or gustard x20 -- stax 007tii, with my 007 mk2 at all, and I own audeze mx4 and hifiman 1000 se

I just adore the 007 mk2, it beats anything i ever heard period, i heard 009 and 007 m2 and immediately was blown by 007 mk2, 009 I did not like that much

i doubt its your source, as to me changing the source as previously stated just changed how i can run the amp at a lower volume dial but not that much in sound signature


----------



## Dan Lee

Well here is where it gets rather tricky.  I was able to use bass boost with the full ifi stack, but again that was over 2 months ago that I last heard that set up.  I was of the impression the Carbon would take a bit of the brightness away while adding a little to the bass.  I do feel some brightness has been taken away, just seems as though bass has been reduced or at best remained the same.


----------



## Sound Eq (May 5, 2019)

Dan Lee said:


> Well here is where it gets rather tricky.  I was able to use bass boost with the full ifi stack, but again that was over 2 months ago that I last heard that set up.  I was of the impression the Carbon would take a bit of the brightness away while adding a little to the bass.  I do feel some brightness has been taken away, just seems as though bass has been reduced or at best remained the same.



if you have been using bass boost on ifi , I really think just get 007 mk2 and be done with it, you are spending too much just in hopes to get more bass out of 009, just get 007 mk2 and forget bout using any bass boost

i really doubt if you change your dac that you will get the bass you wish for, no way would that happen, as it did not ever happen to me with any planar setup, so I do not think it will happen with stax setups, I have good dacs and cheap ones, and the difference between those is not wow what a difference. If i listen to mojo compared to hugo2 in my stax setup I barely hear major differences in my stax setup at all, also this applies with gustard x20 dac. Yes there are differences, but not to the point of having an anaemic bass sound to a full satisfying bass sound


----------



## Dan Lee

Also unfortunately the idea of pursuing the T2 while it would be beautiful I am just not willing to shell out that kind of money for something that may or may not be a guaranteed improvement in what I am looking form.

I did wonder about the 007 mk2 as a possible option, but it just leaves me wonder why everyone praises the use of the Carbon with the 009 and it seems to be somewhat lackluster for me.  I mean it obviously sounds better then the iESL.  

This is not a Mjolnir audio build by the way.  It is however a build from a reputable builder here on hifi by Soren Brix.  So that is why I am inclined to believe I am likely doing something wrong.  Also I have a better power cord on the way but I cant imagine that is going to completely alter the sound.

Is it possible to put the ican into the chain or will this damage something.  Im not sure if I should run idsd into carbon and then carbon into ican or run idsd into ican then ican into carbon.  Either way Id rather not destroy anything.

Appreciate the help guys.


----------



## Sound Eq (May 5, 2019)

Dan Lee said:


> Also unfortunately the idea of pursuing the T2 while it would be beautiful I am just not willing to shell out that kind of money for something that may or may not be a guaranteed improvement in what I am looking form.
> 
> I did wonder about the 007 mk2 as a possible option, but it just leaves me wonder why everyone praises the use of the Carbon with the 009 and it seems to be somewhat lackluster for me.  I mean it obviously sounds better then the iESL.
> 
> ...



correct me , do u now have less bass with carbon,  than ifi iesl and ican pro without using bass boost

owning audeze mx4 myself and used to planar bass, yes 007 mk2 does not have the same planar bass, but it has a dam good bass way more than jade2 or l300 LE, honestly I do not see why you would not just get 007 mk2, as it leaves you desire nothing

I never thought I would enjoy electronic music on stax 007 mk2, but man if you listen to infected mushroom on 007 mk2, you will not ask for more bass, 007 mk2 has it all. It literally works with every genre, never did I even think to add bass boost at all ( and yes there is still a basshead in me  that got refined   )


----------



## Dan Lee

Thats how it feels, but I cant be sure as I have been listening solely to LCD-4's for 2 and a half months waiting for the Carbon to arrive.  The 4's as all are well aware have never come close to being described as bass light.  So perhaps this is playing somewhat into my brains interpretation of what I am hearing, but cant be sure.


----------



## paradoxper

Dan Lee said:


> Hello my fellow Stax friends.
> 
> Thanks Dan Moser



T2. Bro. T2.


----------



## Dan Lee

C'mon man you guys are killing my heart haha.  I literally just got this amp in that I was told was on par with the BHSE and at least compete with the T2 by others on this thread.  I would love to get a T2 but from what I understand they are like minimum double Carbon price and sometimes more.

Heres a couple pics you guys can tell me what ya think.

   
Obviously the first is the inner workings. The second shows how this thing just dwarfs the ifi pro series. 3rd is one possible option to include ican. I have iDSD running to Carbon and then Carbon to iCAN. Not sure if that's the best way to set it up or the blow your gear up way haha.


----------



## BreadMaster

paradoxper said:


> T2. Bro. T2.


Nah man. His source his source!


----------



## paradoxper

BreadMaster said:


> Nah man. His source his source!



True. Not even the T2 will fix that phoney-bologna.


----------



## protoss

Dan Lee said:


> I have been listening solely to LCD-4's for 2 and a half months waiting for the Carbon to arrive.



It seems like the LCD4 has brainwashed you into their sound signature. And once you got the carbon and used it with 009/Jr everything seemed dull and bass lite. 

You might at the end just be a planar guy?


----------



## mulveling (May 5, 2019)

Dan Lee said:


> C'mon man you guys are killing my heart haha.  I literally just got this amp in that I was told was on par with the BHSE and at least compete with the T2 by others on this thread.  I would love to get a T2 but from what I understand they are like minimum double Carbon price and sometimes more.
> 
> Heres a couple pics you guys can tell me what ya think.
> 
> Obviously the first is the inner workings. The second shows how this thing just dwarfs the ifi pro series. 3rd is one possible option to include ican. I have iDSD running to Carbon and then Carbon to iCAN. Not sure if that's the best way to set it up or the blow your gear up way haha.


Dang, who was saying the Carbon can compete with T2? I love the Carbon and BHSE (they're at the same level), great amps, but there's no mistaking them for T2 level. Yeah it's pricey $$$$$. But for me, it wasn't diminishing returns.

Your Carbon build looks really nice (love its look), but I'm not a fan of the Alps RK27 pot. It's out of place compared to the quality of the rest of that circuit & build. Hell, I could hear the RK27 slightly holding back even an ancient Headamp Gilmore V2 vs. V2SE back in the day. A good stepper will improve the SQ (or even maybe a TKD pot), and you can hear it on a Stax setup like yours.

And again, give your brain some time to adjust. I think Stax will reward you.


----------



## Dan Lee

Well I will give some burn it time for sure, but can anyone maybe let me know if that pic of the back will work alright to keep my iCAN in the chain so I can use my planars also without having to switch back and forth or is that a bad idea.


----------



## Dan Lee

Also please dont mistake what I am saying here.  I absolutely love the Carbon build and it is obviously miles ahead of the iESL.  I find it also so good that it made my LCD 4 and Ether 2 sound Dull and lifeless when I went back to test their sound compared to the the stats through the carbon.  It was kind of weird actually.  I was genuinely loving their sound in the most amazing way until I used the Carbon with the 009 and Jr.  The life that is in the 009 and Jr's sound is incredible in every way except where bass is concerned.  But I have always heard the stats had bass issues.  Perhaps @protoss is right and I just spoiled myself with Audeze bass for way to long and just need to take some time away from it.


----------



## Dan Lee

BreadMaster said:


> Nah man. His source his source!





paradoxper said:


> True. Not even the T2 will fix that phoney-bologna.



So I imagine you guys are saying that my beloved iDSD Pro isnt quite the way to go as far as the DAC is concerned?  Any recommendations?


----------



## paradoxper (May 5, 2019)

Dan Lee said:


> So I imagine you guys are saying that my beloved iDSD Pro isnt quite the way to go as far as the DAC is concerned?  Any recommendations?



Practically all I say is cheek.

A DAC isn't going to morph your preferences.

You hear weak bass, I hear strong bass.

You love the IDSDSDDD, I hear you are deaf.

You may prefer planar bass. But enjoy stat transparency.

The way to both.


T2. T2. T2.

Still the unequivocal best.

You only live once.


Meh. Shrugs.


----------



## franz12

Dan Lee said:


> So I imagine you guys are saying that my beloved iDSD Pro isnt quite the way to go as far as the DAC is concerned?  Any recommendations?



Yggy 2 has somewhat fattier bass down there with more bass details than other DACs I've heard. It doesn't transcend a bass anemic headphone to a bass strong one, though.


----------



## pegasus21

I had the chance to demo a Carbon built by Soren and then I bought a Carbon by Mjolnir. My impression is that they do not sound the same even out of the same DAC and both using the 009.

The Soren build while it has strong and fast bass, treble was a little harsh and soundstage is narrow and intimate.

The Mjolnir build on the other hand had similar kind of bass but the treble is not harsh and soundstage is wider. So it is overall more musical.

As I understand it, when Spritzer worked with KG on the Carbon design, that is the version that is publicly released. Later iterations of his Carbon was never publicly released. This could have resulted in the difference in sound.


----------



## Velomane

For those of you with a T2: where did you get it? What kind of money are we talking about when it comes to acquiring one of these?


----------



## paradoxper

Velomane said:


> For those of you with a T2: where did you get it? What kind of money are we talking about when it comes to acquiring one of these?


I sold mine. But I brought you Kerry. 

Your welcome.


----------



## catscratch

Try EQ. The Carbon should have plenty of headroom for you to be able to boost the bass a bit (or lower everything else and raise the volume). Just don't go overboard. Improving the source isn't going to change the fundamental sound signature of the headphones unless you get a source that's very much not neutral. Getting a T2... well if the sort of money involved is pocket change, sure, why not, but it would be a lot easier to try EQ first.


----------



## arnaud

BTW, I saw a nice BHSE/RK50 on sale here. Think the dude behind is a rude french guy but worth a shot


----------



## Dan Lee

paradoxper said:


> You love the IDSDSDDD, I hear you are deaf.


Sooooo... What you are saying is you really do not like the ifi idsd pro?
Also I hear what you are saying about the T2 along with everyone else haha.
It is rather clear the T2 is the Bees bulletproof perfect god dam Knees.
I would be all in on that unit if money was no issue, but alas of the 3 units held in wide esteem I opted for the Carbon.
Is there a DAC that you or anyone else would recommend that is better then the idsd Pro.
And before you say anything mr. cheek haha-
I have considered the Hugo TT2 as many have suggested it is the 2nd best dac out there with dave being #1.  
Plus down the road an Mscaler takes it to dave levels.

I saw a recommendation for the yggy which I have considered before.  I am rather curious about Chord offerings as they get so much attention.

Also pretty sure an 007 mkII is in my future.  I've heard some say they prefer the mkI.  
How do you guys feel here I would have thought the mkII would be better then the mkI since its supposed to be the newer version?


----------



## Dan Lee

catscratch said:


> Try EQ. The Carbon should have plenty of headroom for you to be able to boost the bass a bit (or lower everything else and raise the volume). Just don't go overboard. Improving the source isn't going to change the fundamental sound signature of the headphones unless you get a source that's very much not neutral. Getting a T2... well if the sort of money involved is pocket change, sure, why not, but it would be a lot easier to try EQ first.


Thank you for this.  I will try some EQing and see what that does for me.


----------



## paradoxper (May 5, 2019)

Dan Lee said:


> Sooooo... What you are saying is you really do not like the ifi idsd pro?
> Also I hear what you are saying about the T2 along with everyone else haha.
> It is rather clear the T2 is the Bees bulletproof perfect god dam Knees.
> I would be all in on that unit if money was no issue, but alas of the 3 units held in wide esteem I opted for the Carbon.
> ...



I think iFi is a gimmick. Like HiFiMan. Like Cavalli was and always will be.
 And a bunch more. I do lack diplomacy.

Doesn't mean you are wrong. You are just deaf. Or I perceive you that way.

I think you'd love the Objective DAC. Clearly.

More serious, an obvious candidate is the Yggdrasil. However, I don't believe this is your solution. Nor would a T2 be.
Again, neither is going to morph your preferences.

I would consider one of the 007's per bloom. Always listen to Mulveling.

At the end of the day (as deaf as you may be) let your subjectivity guide you.

Evaluate and execute. Maybe you are not long for the stat-world.

It's a challenging endeavor to get the very best of all the worlds.


----------



## walakalulu

Are you sure you’re not sacrificing bass quality for quantity? If not then maybe the Audeze sound signature is more to your taste than Stax. It’s not a crime!


----------



## Sound Eq (May 6, 2019)

Dan Lee said:


> Sooooo... What you are saying is you really do not like the ifi idsd pro?
> Also I hear what you are saying about the T2 along with everyone else haha.
> It is rather clear the T2 is the Bees bulletproof perfect god dam Knees.
> I would be all in on that unit if money was no issue, but alas of the 3 units held in wide esteem I opted for the Carbon.
> ...



Sell the 009 and get yourself 007mk2 late 2017 version, and be done with all this crap of buying and wasting money for nothing. I see one problem in your set up and it is so obvious its the 009 ( I am saying this because you seem to like Bass ). When I heard the 009 I immediately knew I would never fathom this sound at all, as I am used to planar bass and 009 is way way behind

It's like someone telling me go buy the HD800 and when I get home i hook it up to my gear and I say where is the audeze bass


----------



## JimL11

It may be worthwhile mentioning that Bob Katz, the recording engineer, who owns a Mjolnir Carbon and Stax SR-007 Mk II headphones with port mod, actually preferred using a touch of bass boost and treble cut. One may disagree with his tastes but he does have a good pair of ears - that is how he earns his living, after all. I haven't heard the SR-009S but the consensus seems to be that tonally, it fits somewhere between the SR-007 MkII and SR-009.


----------



## protoss

Sound Eq said:


> Sell the 009 and get yourself 007mk2 late 2017 version, and be done with all this crap of buying and wasting money for nothing. I see one problem in your set up and it is so obvious its the 009 ( I am saying this because you seem to like Bass ). When I heard the 009 I immediately knew I would never fathom this sound at all, as I am used to planar bass and 009 is way way behind
> 
> It's like someone telling me go buy the HD800 and when I get home i hook it up to my gear and I say where is the audeze bass



LOL! That's a little harsh. LOL! 

007 is the best stax headphones they ever made imho. 

007mk1/mk2
Omega
009S
009
L700


----------



## AzmiAN

I have L300 and SRM-007tA.
Which upgrade from L300 is the best ?
L500, L700 or 007mk2?


----------



## Trance_Gott

pegasus21 said:


> I had the chance to demo a Carbon built by Soren and then I bought a Carbon by Mjolnir. My impression is that they do not sound the same even out of the same DAC and both using the 009.
> 
> The Soren build while it has strong and fast bass, treble was a little harsh and soundstage is narrow and intimate.
> 
> ...



Have you test them both ont the same day with volumen adjustment?


----------



## Trance_Gott (May 6, 2019)

Dan Lee said:


> Thank you for this.  I will try some EQing and see what that does for me.


Forget the 009/s. It has no bass vs. an LCD4. And it will never get bass out of any amp. I don't belief it will be a lot better of the T2.This amp then has to fetch +5-7dB more bass out of an 009/s to get the bass level of an LCD4. How?
I had twice the 009 and then the 009s. I sold all three and the only Stax headphone I own to today is the SR007 MK2 (first edition!) bass port mod. That's the only headphone I never critized for the sound. Just perfect from bass to treble and I hear 95% Rock & Metal!
All my experiences with EQs and the 009/s does not satisfying me. I get more volume in the bass but the 009/s failed in the kickbass area. The diaphram has never the hard kick bass like the 007 has.


----------



## pegasus21

Trance_Gott said:


> Have you test them both ont the same day with volumen adjustment?


It wasn't side by side but the owner of the Carbon made by Soren tested both Carbons side by side on another occasion before he bought and his impressions match what I observed.


----------



## Dan Lee

Sounds like I will be trying out the 007.  I have heard a lot of people praise the 007 and a great many people say they prefer it to the 009.  I always thought I would be the type to prefer the more analytical 009, but it would seem that is unlikely at this point.  

Is there any reason to avoid a new 007MKII?  Seems there are a lot of suggestions for different models and different years.


----------



## Sound Eq (May 7, 2019)

protoss said:


> LOL! That's a little harsh. LOL!
> 
> 007 is the best stax headphones they ever made imho.
> 
> ...


yeah my friend, but i could not hold it anymore, I go by the following rules, i can go to a shop and audition things, or go to a friend and audition things, all gears must be stock not modded or tempered with, if I can see myself liking what I hear, from bass, mids and highs and are to up 90% of my liking preferences then I will buy the thing, and this gives me 10% to tinker with by adding different gears or mods.

time for diplomacy is over,  its time for action


----------



## Sound Eq

Dan Lee said:


> Sounds like I will be trying out the 007.  I have heard a lot of people praise the 007 and a great many people say they prefer it to the 009.  I always thought I would be the type to prefer the more analytical 009, but it would seem that is unlikely at this point.
> 
> Is there any reason to avoid a new 007MKII?  Seems there are a lot of suggestions for different models and different years.


mine is 007 mk2 late 2017 and I love the thing to death


----------



## jcn3

Dan Lee said:


> Sounds like I will be trying out the 007.  I have heard a lot of people praise the 007 and a great many people say they prefer it to the 009.  I always thought I would be the type to prefer the more analytical 009, but it would seem that is unlikely at this point.
> 
> Is there any reason to avoid a new 007MKII?  Seems there are a lot of suggestions for different models and different years.



dan, i know you're getting an awful lot of opinions here, but i'll throw in my two cents worth.

(1) i would certainly check how things sound with your dac going into the carbon only, disconnecting the ifi amp. in my experience with a kgsshv (not a carbon), i got additional clarity without the daisychaining.  if you get better bass when you do this, then the output of the ifi dac may not be that robust.
(2) i would look at a better dac vs. new headphones.  the 009s and the 007s are all fabulous headphones -- i can't imagine your 009s are holding your back.
(3) listen to everything with the bass boost off -- you should be comparing things in as controlled an environment as possible.  you can eq after you've got a clear assessment of each piece.


----------



## Dan Lee

@Sound Eq man you have no idea how much I wish there was a shop I could go to near me.  My god would my life be easier if I could just test some stuff out first.  Its a pain in the ass having to buy to try and then resale if I hate it.  Or the other part that sucks is if I get something that sounds good to me like the ifi Pro stuff I kinda have to stick with it rather then purchase every possible amp and dac combo I can think of in hopes of being able to navigate returns and other variable before shops just cut me off.  Where Im at here in Florida Ive never been able to even find a show near here that I could go to.  But thanks for the tips on the 007.

@jcn3 I really appreciate your input my friend.  So far I have been running the Carbon right out of the Dac without the ican connected at all.  So thus far I have not used any eq at all.  The pic I sent was more of a curiosity thing to see if there was a way to keep them all in the chain so I could continue to use all headphones without having to switch connectors.  I did figure that part out, but havent tried it yet.  I do however appreciate your input and will likely weigh some options after I've spent a little more time burning my ears in as was suggested.  I do believe I need to do this as way to much time was spent with the planars waiting for this unit.

I think I may have jumped to conclusions a bit early also as I have had a head cold the last two days and think my ears were a bit outta whack as a result.  I can say this.  I know the Carbon is a fantastic amp because when I went back to listen to the lcd-4 and the e2 It was as though all dynamics to the sound and power had completely disappeared.  This leads me to the conclusion that my amp and dac may well have outlived the level of the headphones I have.  It is crazy how things changed so dramatically with this amp.  Right now I don't even want to listen to the planars as all of a sudden they just sound dull.  There is a richness to the sound of the Jr and 009 that is incredible.  I think the bass thing will change as my ears adjust.  Typically I have been more a fan of the audiophile bass sound quality over quantity and impact.  I will likely still get some 007's as well.

Appreciate the input guys.


----------



## ctemkin

JimL11 said:


> It may be worthwhile mentioning that Bob Katz, the recording engineer, who owns a Mjolnir Carbon and Stax SR-007 Mk II headphones with port mod, actually preferred using a touch of bass boost and treble cut. One may disagree with his tastes but he does have a good pair of ears - that is how he earns his living, after all. I haven't heard the SR-009S but the consensus seems to be that tonally, it fits somewhere between the SR-007 MkII and SR-009.



Not that I put myself in the same league as Bob Katz, but this reminded me of a comparable experience.

Recently I decided to try Schiit's Loki tone-control unit with my SR-009 and BHSE.  I found the bass without the Loki pretty good, but I was curious whether it could be improved on.  I found that the Loki did make an improvement--not night and day, but I could hear the difference and thought that the overall sound was better with the Loki.  The only control I adjusted was the bass; I tried playing with the other three, but decided that they were not helpful.  I thought that the Loki worked better for classical music than it did for classic rock; I have no idea why.


----------



## nazrin313

jcn3 said:


> dan, i know you're getting an awful lot of opinions here, but i'll throw in my two cents worth.
> 
> (1) i would certainly check how things sound with your dac going into the carbon only, disconnecting the ifi amp. in my experience with a kgsshv (not a carbon), i got additional clarity without the daisychaining.  if you get better bass when



This mirrors what I found out as well. When I first got my KGSSHV 2 months ago I daisy chained it via my GS08 amp with the Theta Dspro Gen V(a) feeding it. While it was really good but didnt wow me. But when I took the GS08 out of the chain and hooked up the HV directly to the DAC, I was floored. It was night and day and from that day on, my other gear has been just sitting there not getting any ear time at all. Using the SR007Mk1 btw.


----------



## FangJoker (May 7, 2019)

Dan Lee said:


> @Sound Eq man you have no idea how much I wish there was a shop I could go to near me.  My god would my life be easier if I could just test some stuff out first.  Its a pain in the ass having to buy to try and then resale if I hate it.  Or the other part that sucks is if I get something that sounds good to me like the ifi Pro stuff I kinda have to stick with it rather then purchase every possible amp and dac combo I can think of in hopes of being able to navigate returns and other variable before shops just cut me off.  Where Im at here in Florida Ive never been able to even find a show near here that I could go to.  But thanks for the tips on the 007.
> 
> @jcn3 I really appreciate your input my friend.  So far I have been running the Carbon right out of the Dac without the ican connected at all.  So thus far I have not used any eq at all.  The pic I sent was more of a curiosity thing to see if there was a way to keep them all in the chain so I could continue to use all headphones without having to switch connectors.  I did figure that part out, but havent tried it yet.  I do however appreciate your input and will likely weigh some options after I've spent a little more time burning my ears in as was suggested.  I do believe I need to do this as way to much time was spent with the planars waiting for this unit.
> 
> ...



I believe that Music Direct has a 60 day return policy. You could buy a Chord dac and see if you like it better than the ifi. I prefer chord, but the ifi has a crazy amount of features that many other dacs don't have which seems like a huge plus.


----------



## VandyMan (May 6, 2019)

IMO, buying a new DAC to get more bass is a waste of money. Take a look at the frequency response and distortion measurements for you current DAC and whichever you are considering. Tell me how that will give you a boost in low frequencies? The vast majority of DACs are within .5 dB (or less) of flat in the bass. Differences in bass between DACs are extremely subtle.


----------



## powertoold

My 2 cents: don't use DACs that mess with the sound. Don't equalize, don't add spatial effects, don't enhance the sound. Upsampling is fine. I find when you mess with the sound, it will work for some songs/genres but sound bad for others.


----------



## tigon_ridge

Equalize. Always equalize. That's my 2 cents. No matter how perfect you think your system is, it isn't. Equalize. Always. If certain settings don't work for certain songs, you can always change it. I also prefer software EQ by a wide margin to any hardware.


----------



## Dan Lee

I am pretty sure at this point that it was the head cold causin me issues cause I have been listening tonight and everything sounds just incredible.  I am hearing the bass that I thought was in the 009 the whole time.  The richness of the Jr's is just overwhelming at times.  I will likely upgrade my dac at some point, but dont think I am in a huge rush to do that unless I just cant make the planars sound good again at which point I will be selling those and getting a better Dac and some 007's or an 009S.  

Again thanks for all the helpful input guys.


----------



## franz12

Dan Lee said:


> I am pretty sure at this point that it was the head cold causin me issues cause I have been listening tonight and everything sounds just incredible.  I am hearing the bass that I thought was in the 009 the whole time.  The richness of the Jr's is just overwhelming at times.  I will likely upgrade my dac at some point, but dont think I am in a huge rush to do that unless I just cant make the planars sound good again at which point I will be selling those and getting a better Dac and some 007's or an 009S.
> 
> Again thanks for all the helpful input guys.



As a similarly priced DAC, you may consider the yggy 2. I had ifi Pro iDSD 2 months ago, but I was not impressed, so I sent it back. It is known that the yggy 2 has a bit more bass thumb with holographic imaging. It is unlikely for you to lose money further if you are able to swap it from the other. 

I know that you consider Hugos strongly, but whenever I tried them (I never heard the Dave though), it always made me think that this is a snake oil industry. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Mach3

Dan Lee said:


> Sounds like I will be trying out the 007.  I have heard a lot of people praise the 007 and a great many people say they prefer it to the 009.  I always thought I would be the type to prefer the more analytical 009, but it would seem that is unlikely at this point.
> 
> Is there any reason to avoid a new 007MKII?  Seems there are a lot of suggestions for different models and different years.



There been's heaps of 007 sold in the sales thread. One at an absolute bargain 007 mk1 with the carbon case (Best version without modding) $1450 These are rare as now.
Some as low as $1200-1300.

Base on bass on the top end Stax currently.
007/Mk1&mk2 > 009S > 009BK > 009



protoss said:


> LOL! That's a little harsh. LOL!
> 
> 007 is the best stax headphones they ever made imho.
> 
> ...



Bit pointless including the Omega, man that damn thing is so expensive 8k-10k at the moment. Not to mention they so rare, I've seen more unicorn and mermaids.


----------



## powertoold

tigon_ridge said:


> Equalize. Always equalize. That's my 2 cents. No matter how perfect you think your system is, it isn't. Equalize. Always. If certain settings don't work for certain songs, you can always change it. I also prefer software EQ by a wide margin to any hardware.



Using an equalizer is like putting A1 sauce on a steak


----------



## tigon_ridge

powertoold said:


> Using an equalizer is like putting A1 sauce on a steak



Depends on the user. Obviously, if you don't know what you're doing, you're going to have a hard time achieving satisfying results. I've never owned any headphone that didn't benefit from EQ. You can have A1, or with some skill and knowledge make your own special sauce.


----------



## protoss

Mach3 said:


> Bit pointless including the Omega



To me it is not. And because of the rarity and close to 0.1% of people heard it. I placed it in 2nd place. If not I would of placed it 1st place as staxs greatest I ever heard. No wonder the CEO of stax announced he wanted to revive the 1993 Omega. He and I know it's amazing. 

My rank is still the same:

1. 007mk1/mk2 (mod)
2. Omega
3. 009S
4. 009
5. L700 / l300lte
6. Lambdas pro
7. 404tle
8. Sigma pro


----------



## Dan Lee

franz12 said:


> As a similarly priced DAC, you may consider the yggy 2. I had ifi Pro iDSD 2 months ago, but I was not impressed, so I sent it back. It is known that the yggy 2 has a bit more bass thumb with holographic imaging. It is unlikely for you to lose money further if you are able to swap it from the other.
> 
> I know that you consider Hugos strongly, but whenever I tried them (I never heard the Dave though), it always made me think that this is a snake oil industry. Just my 2 cents.


I have considered the Yggy a lot over the years, but I enjoy the sound of MQA and thought I would prefer something that decodes it fully.  Not sure at this point how much of a difference it makes.  I was also hesitant to get it because of its massive size, but now that I have this Carbon that could easily double as a table of some sort the Yggy may well seem small in comparison.  

Also its not that I prefer the Chord's or Hugo's specifically but that they get so much praise I've just always assumed they were somewhere at the top of the heap.  But if they Yggy is better I would sure as hell prefer to save myself $2.5K.  How do people feel about the Holo Audio Spring DAC?  I've heard a lot of good things about it.  I'm not in a huge hurry to upgrade at this point, but then again I have said that before and had something new the following week.  The iDSD does have a lot of options, but if sound can be much improved I would consider the upgrade for sure.

@Mach3 How is the 009S?  Anyone care to chime in on the 009S vs 009 and Jr. as far as overall musicality goes.  The Jr. has an insane richness to the sound with a wonderful soundstage while the 009 seems a bit more intimate and analytical without as much musical tonality.  They both sound great, but the 009 seems to be able to competently do everything, but if the 009S does that while adding musicality and or soundstage that may be the best headphone in the world.  I'm still gonna get an 007 as well.  I gotta try em all now haha.


----------



## Sound Eq

can I ask which has more power stax 323s amp or stax 007tII amp.


----------



## JimL11

Sound Eq said:


> can I ask which has more power stax 323s amp or stax 007tII amp.



If you read the Stax specifications, the SRM-323 is listed as putting out 400VRMS at 1 kHz, vs SRM-007 is listed as putting out 340VRMS at 1 kHz.  The difference is mostly due to the fact that the 323 has constant current output loads and the 007 uses old-fashioned resistors.


----------



## VandyMan

powertoold said:


> Using an equalizer is like putting A1 sauce on a steak



Audeze provides EQ presets for their headphones. I have an LCD-4 and the EQ makes a very worthwhile difference (and works for all genres). I wish STAX and other headphone manufactures would follow Audeze's lead on this.


----------



## mulveling

Dan Lee said:


> @Mach3 How is the 009S?  Anyone care to chime in on the 009S vs 009 and Jr. as far as overall musicality goes.  The Jr. has an insane richness to the sound with a wonderful soundstage while the 009 seems a bit more intimate and analytical without as much musical tonality.  They both sound great, but the 009 seems to be able to competently do everything, but if the 009S does that while adding musicality and or soundstage that may be the best headphone in the world.  I'm still gonna get an 007 as well.  I gotta try em all now haha.


You'd really like the 009S on your Carbon. It's a bit tonally richer / warmer than the 009, which is a needed and welcome change with that amp pairing. However on the BHSE things get much closer - still with a slight edge to the 009S overall. On a DIY T2 it flips back to favor the old 009 as they just open up and "breathe" better while having a perfect tonality in that pairing. 

The Yggy and Yggy2 do match very well with Stax headphones, I have to admit. My files are mostly PCM so that's not an issue here.


----------



## catscratch (May 7, 2019)

Eh... EQ is a tool. You don't say "I never use screwdrivers" you use them when you have to. Same thing here. If there are no glaring FR issues, you don't use it. If there are, you do. And there is definitely some skill to using it correctly, which I'm still in the process of learning.


----------



## jcn3

Dan Lee said:


> I have considered the Yggy a lot over the years, but I enjoy the sound of MQA and thought I would prefer something that decodes it fully.  Not sure at this point how much of a difference it makes.  I was also hesitant to get it because of its massive size, but now that I have this Carbon that could easily double as a table of some sort the Yggy may well seem small in comparison.
> 
> Also its not that I prefer the Chord's or Hugo's specifically but that they get so much praise I've just always assumed they were somewhere at the top of the heap.  But if they Yggy is better I would sure as hell prefer to save myself $2.5K.  How do people feel about the Holo Audio Spring DAC?  I've heard a lot of good things about it.  I'm not in a huge hurry to upgrade at this point, but then again I have said that before and had something new the following week.  The iDSD does have a lot of options, but if sound can be much improved I would consider the upgrade for sure.



chord, schiit, and holo audio all don't support mqa.  however, the player you're using needs to be taken into account.  for instance, roon does the first unfold up to 24/96, so i do get that benefit before the file is sent to my yggy.


----------



## florence

Does srm353x enough power to drive sr007s?


----------



## protoss

florence said:


> Does srm353x enough power to drive sr007s?



The 353x will have the volume. But it will not open the full frequency of the 007 that makes the 007 shine. So it will be loud but sleeping.


----------



## Dan Lee

jcn3 said:


> chord, schiit, and holo audio all don't support mqa.  however, the player you're using needs to be taken into account.  for instance, roon does the first unfold up to 24/96, so i do get that benefit before the file is sent to my yggy.


Yeah I knew they werent MQA compatible, but still considered them simply based on the fact that they may or may not sound better.  I really dont know what to think as far as where to go with DAC's.  So many damn options with so much praise for all of them.  I've also thought about the Mytek series or possibly the RME, but if I'm not mistaken the RME would be more of a sidegrade then an upgrade.  Though I do like the EQ feature for help with bass in certain situations.  At this point I am pretty certain that I am going to go the 009S route.

But I am just gonna try and listen to what Ive got for a little while.  I really enjoy the tonal richness of the Shangri-La Jr. and its bass is at least audiophile quality... which I can hear now haha.  The 009 seems to do everything a little better then the Jr overall, just without the wider soundstage and the tonality is certainly a bit more tonally accurate.  This is why I am leaning so heavily toward the 009S.  Well not really leaning so much as just when I am going to get them.

Anyone else heard the Jr vs 009 and 009S care to weigh in on how you felt about the comparison.


----------



## Dan Lee

@mulveling just saw your thoughts on the 009S.  I appreciate the input.  That was kinda what I was thinking as the 009 while less bright through the Carbon could still use a little more warmth.  Plus added richness sounds fantastic as well.  I am loving the Jr's right now.  Any thoughts on those compared to the 009S?

Also any other DAC's you guys might recommend other then they Yggy?  The Yggy is definitely an option for me, but still like to have some choices to think about, though value to cost ratio would be hard to beat with Yggy.  Holo Audio, RME, or others?  Its kinda crazy how a great amp with great cans can suddenly put on full display weaknesses in your chain.


----------



## protoss (May 8, 2019)

Dan Lee said:


> possibly the RME



The RME dac portion is equalvent to a $250 dac.
It has a $100 amp section, with a $250 dac and $200 of features. Its the features that makes the RME desirable. And dont get me wrong, the RME is a worldclass product. I like it better than the yggy!

Asking people what are good dacs is a bad way to do this. There are thousands of dacs to choose from. Its this opinion vs that opinion or preference.

I personally perfer any R2R dacs and NOS DAC only. I personally stay away from any saber/akm/ or similar chips
I need that smoothness.

Again you might need to do your own research on what sound you like.

Btw isnt the Jr great


----------



## Dan Lee

protoss said:


> The RME dac portion is equalvent to a $250 dac.
> It has a $100 amp section, with a $250 dac and $200 of features. Its the features that makes the RME desirable. And dont get me wrong, the RME is a worldclass product. I like it better than the yggy!
> 
> Asking people what are good dacs is a bad way to do this. There are thousands of dacs to choose from. Its this opinion vs that opinion or preference.
> ...



Haha yes sir the Jr is pretty damn awesome.  Had to adjust to it a bit, but man I am enjoying it right now.  I think Im gonna let the 009 go in favor of the 009S.

Well I guess the RME is out haha.  I want a great DAC not just a feature packed one with mediocre DAC.  As far as R2R DACs go how do you feel about the holo audio spring offering?  Any other recommendations to throw out there.  I really dont know what to look for as iDSD has thus far been the highest end DAC I have owned.  

Seeing as you have owned both the 009S and Jr how would you say they compare?


----------



## protoss (May 8, 2019)

@Dan Lee never tried the holo. I perfer denafrips. Get the Ares ($650) as a starter.
Good things from Metrum company.

I dont think I want to list anything more. It will defeat the purpose of what I just wrote on top. Plus the price tags will skyrocket to 5k and over sadly.


----------



## mulveling

Sorry, no ideas on the Jr, never owned nor heard one  
And I'm not a big DAC man either; mostly vinyl. But I've had more success with Yggy / Stax (and headphones in general) than other options (again, my PCM file library is my primary concern). I'm also liking the Yggy 2 over the original Yggy I used to own. Pretty impressed with how it's seemingly able to stand up to my 2nd place turntable setup so far (with the best files). What bugs the crap out of me with digital though, is how there seems to be more variance in sound quality and playback/gain level than there is with vinyl LP's.


----------



## pegasus21

protoss said:


> The RME dac portion is equalvent to a $250 dac.
> It has a $100 amp section, with a $250 dac and $200 of features. Its the features that makes the RME desirable. And dont get me wrong, the RME is a worldclass product. I like it better than the yggy!
> 
> Asking people what are good dacs is a bad way to do this. There are thousands of dacs to choose from. Its this opinion vs that opinion or preference.
> ...



Would the figures you’re quoting be of cost price of parts and manufacturing or is it the price that you perceive it to be worth?

I’m also curious as to how you came to those figures and the rationale for bringing up those figures.


----------



## protoss

pegasus21 said:


> Would the figures you’re quoting be of cost price of parts and manufacturing or is it the price that you perceive it to be worth?
> 
> I’m also curious as to how you came to those figures and the rationale for bringing up those figures.



Based on everything you wrote. And demoing it briefly and reading on it and checking the measurement. 
The rme dac ($999) measurements = to the Topping DX7s ($499) and that dac portion equal to the smsl su 8 dac at $250
The amp section is equal to JDS Atom $100. The Atom is frankly better. And everyone who has a Rme knows that using the Rme dac and connecting it to a better external amp is the way to go.  For example, the THX AAA amp or gilmore lite etch... or Gsx-mk2

And the features are rich in flavors. Hard to dollar cost it. But I am guessing $200 worth. Just reading on the features is mind blowing. Well to me it is.


----------



## florence

protoss said:


> The 353x will have the volume. But it will not open the full frequency of the 007 that makes the 007 shine. So it will be loud but sleeping.


Thanks mate, informative. I know what you mean.


----------



## Mach3

Dan Lee said:


> I have considered the Yggy a lot over the years, but I enjoy the sound of MQA and thought I would prefer something that decodes it fully.  Not sure at this point how much of a difference it makes.  I was also hesitant to get it because of its massive size, but now that I have this Carbon that could easily double as a table of some sort the Yggy may well seem small in comparison.
> 
> Also its not that I prefer the Chord's or Hugo's specifically but that they get so much praise I've just always assumed they were somewhere at the top of the heap.  But if they Yggy is better I would sure as hell prefer to save myself $2.5K.  How do people feel about the Holo Audio Spring DAC?  I've heard a lot of good things about it.  I'm not in a huge hurry to upgrade at this point, but then again I have said that before and had something new the following week.  The iDSD does have a lot of options, but if sound can be much improved I would consider the upgrade for sure.
> 
> @Mach3 How is the 009S?  Anyone care to chime in on the 009S vs 009 and Jr. as far as overall musicality goes.  The Jr. has an insane richness to the sound with a wonderful soundstage while the 009 seems a bit more intimate and analytical without as much musical tonality.  They both sound great, but the 009 seems to be able to competently do everything, but if the 009S does that while adding musicality and or soundstage that may be the best headphone in the world.  I'm still gonna get an 007 as well.  I gotta try em all now haha.



The 009S are noticeably warmer than the 009 at the cost of detail and soundstage. Base on your description and your experience with the LCD4, I think you'll find a better match for your carbon with the 007 series.


----------



## walakalulu

Mach3 said:


> The 009S are noticeably warmer than the 009 at the cost of detail and soundstage. Base on your description and your experience with the LCD4, I think you'll find a better match for your carbon with the 007 series.



Agree the ‘S’ model is warmer in tone with a little more body. Don’t think its less detailed but certainly less bright at high frequencies. This can be interpreted as less transparent but the 009 is too bright with some amps especially  Stax’s own. Presumably they voice their headphones with their own amps in mind specifically the T8000 for the 009S.
Overall I’d pair the ‘S’ variant more with ss amps eg. the Carbon although I’m perfectly happy using a KGGG with the ‘S’ and prefer it over the 009.


----------



## phaeton70

interested in your comment about 009S and GG, can you elaborate? which tubes are you using?
I really like my 009+GG combo with JJ 6CA7 tubes, much better than anything listened till now. I don't find it fatiguing or over-bright, actually I listen for hours, even at high volume, w/o any problem. slighlty prefer it also over BHSE with =C= and XF2 tubes (for different and opposite reasons, too "light" with =C=, too "bodied" with XF2) 
but if 009S is better, I'm open to discussion (i.e. resell 009 and buy 009S   )
btw, I do like also the 009+T1W combo with clear top tubes, an amazing combo at a very reasonable price, that will overblow many ES and non-ES multi-k$ setup IMHO


----------



## JimL11

florence said:


> Does srm353x enough power to drive sr007s?



According to both Justin Wilson (HeadAmp) and Kevin Gilmore the 353x circuit is similar to the 717, but simplified. However, it apparently uses smaller heatsinks, and spritzer says the decreased current bias makes it sound a bit bright.


----------



## mulveling (May 8, 2019)

phaeton70 said:


> interested in your comment about 009S and GG, can you elaborate? which tubes are you using?
> I really like my 009+GG combo with JJ 6CA7 tubes, much better than anything listened till now. I don't find it fatiguing or over-bright, actually I listen for hours, even at high volume, w/o any problem. slighlty prefer it also over BHSE with =C= and XF2 tubes (for different and opposite reasons, too "light" with =C=, too "bodied" with XF2)
> but if 009S is better, I'm open to discussion (i.e. resell 009 and buy 009S   )
> btw, I do like also the 009+T1W combo with clear top tubes, an amazing combo at a very reasonable price, that will overblow many ES and non-ES multi-k$ setup IMHO


If you found the BHSE and XF2 (presumably British/Mullard) too bodied, and other tubes too lightweight/lean, then you'd probably find the Holland/Amperex brown base tubes (xf4 and/or xf5 - you can even mix them in a quad) to be the perfect sonic fit there! That said you have a KGGG so you're awesome already lol.


----------



## florence (May 10, 2019)

mulveling said:


> Yes, that's a good path. The 007 and KGSShv (most variants) makes a very good pairing; much better than the older KGSS. It's just that the 007 with KGSShv Carbon is even better - and makes for one of the best setups you can put together short of a DIY T2 (with 007, 009). BTW, the KG amps like this don't care if you input a single-ended or balanced signal. It's the same sound quality either way - no penalty, which is certainly NOT the case with many other balanced amps. If your new KGSShv amp comes only with XLR inputs, you can use RCA female to XLR male adapters no problem (I use Cardas to satisfy my psychological need for fancy cables & connectors, but Neutrik work fine too). So choose your DAC based on sound quality and features, not single-ended vs. balanced.
> 
> I also have the L700 and like them, but for me they sound best with tubes. I didn't think the KGSShv was an optimal pairing for them. So moving for the 007 at the same time is a good idea.


So you say that I can use idsd micro black as a dac (RCA) with KG amp (XLR) without compromise regarding sound quality? This information means a lot because I thought that I need a balanced dac with XLR outputs to use with kgsshv.


----------



## mulveling

florence said:


> So you say that I can use idsd micro black as a dac (RCA) with KG amp (XLR) without compromise regarding sound quality? This information means a lot because I thought that I need a balanced dac with XLR outputs to use with kgsshv.


Yep! It's a big advantage of these amps, especially for vinyl heads like me who rarely have a phono stage with XLR out. You still want as high a quality source as possible, of course - but you're no longer shacked to needing XLR outs or being forced to use a Jensen ISO-MAX converter. Like I said before, even if you get one of these amps with only XLR in you can happily use adapters to feed it RCA - no penalty, other than the connector itself.

The new GS-X mini can do this trick also, because of its differential input stage. The GS-X Mk 2 CANNOT do this, and when you feed it RCA you're only using half of the amp! The GS-X Mini is a bangin' little amp, btw. I got to borrow one for a night. It sounds amazing with the Meze Empyrean and especially the Hifi Susvara (I really didn't want to like the Susvara either).


----------



## florence

mulveling said:


> Yep! It's a big advantage of these amps, especially for vinyl heads like me who rarely have a phono stage with XLR out. You still want as high a quality source as possible, of course - but you're no longer shacked to needing XLR outs or being forced to use a Jensen ISO-MAX converter. Like I said before, even if you get one of these amps with only XLR in you can happily use adapters to feed it RCA - no penalty, other than the connector itself.
> 
> The new GS-X mini can do this trick also, because of its differential input stage. The GS-X Mk 2 CANNOT do this, and when you feed it RCA you're only using half of the amp! The GS-X Mini is a bangin' little amp, btw. I got to borrow one for a night. It sounds amazing with the Meze Empyrean and especially the Hifi Susvara (I really didn't want to like the Susvara either).


Great news! Thanks a lot.


----------



## protoss

mulveling said:


> The GS-X Mini is a bangin' little amp, btw. I got to borrow one for a night.



You got to borrow it? The prototype version I am assuming? Whats your full impression or review on it? I want to know if its cold or warm sounding? Too bright for a HD800 for example?


----------



## mulveling

protoss said:


> You got to borrow it? The prototype version I am assuming? Whats your full impression or review on it? I want to know if its cold or warm sounding? Too bright for a HD800 for example?


I posted in another thread with a lot of headphone impressions. It is very slightly on the clear/clean side of neutral. Not a good match for Stellia, which needs an outright warm/sweet amp. It was an amazing match with Susvara. This combo kinda blew me away, only exceeded (and not by much) by my Stax / T2 rig. Also awesome with the Meze Empyrian, though I liked the Susvara better. Based on past experience I would not pair it with HD800 (didn't have them on hand to try), but then I never liked those headphones. I think the Mini is a killer amp, and I kinda want one even though I have no need for dynamic headphones!


----------



## Torac (May 12, 2019)

Hi, I was looking on eBay for a cheap stax adaptor and found this srd-6 that looks a bit different, don't suppose anyone knows what the white connector in the front is, my best guess is that it's for the he90 but why six pins, balanced? Also have these been modded or did it come like this from stax?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAX-SRD...TATIC-EAR-SPEAKER-UNUSUAL-RARE-/173891818311?


----------



## JimL11

EssentialEDM said:


> Hi, I was looking on eBay for a cheap stax adaptor and found this srd-6 that looks a bit different, don't suppose anyone knows what the white connector in the front is, my best guess is that it's for the he90 but why six pins, balanced? Also has these been modded or did it come like this from stax?
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAX-SRD...TATIC-EAR-SPEAKER-UNUSUAL-RARE-/173891818311?



No idea on the white plug/jack. The Sennheiser HE90 jack appears to be 5 pin so it's not that. Also, the correct bias for the HE90 is 500V, and the SRD-6 has a bias supply of 230V. And no, AFAIK Stax never made  an energizer that incorporated a jack for non-Stax headphones, so this is clearly modified - the SRD6 only had one (1) Stax jack.


----------



## JimL11

This is the Sennheiser OEM HE90 jack that Moon Audio sells.


----------



## Torac

JimL11 said:


> This is the Sennheiser OEM HE90 jack that Moon Audio sells.


That looks very similar, apart from the pin count of course, maybe a different sennheiser model that used 6 pins instead of 5...


----------



## JimL11 (May 12, 2019)

EssentialEDM said:


> That looks very similar, apart from the pin count of course, maybe a different sennheiser model that used 6 pins instead of 5...



I don't think so. AFAIK there have only been three Sennheiser electrostatic headphones, the HE90, the HE60 and the current HE1, which is an integrated system. The HE90 used a 5 pin plug and from the pictures I could find the HE60 used a rectangular plug. The HE1 headphones can only be driven by its own amp - that's the $55,000 system.


----------



## georgep

EssentialEDM said:


> Hi, I was looking on eBay for a cheap stax adaptor and found this srd-6 that looks a bit different, don't suppose anyone knows what the white connector in the front is, my best guess is that it's for the he90 but why six pins, balanced? Also have these been modded or did it come like this from stax?
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAX-SRD...TATIC-EAR-SPEAKER-UNUSUAL-RARE-/173891818311?



That box has been heavily modified by an end user. What the white connector is for is anybody's guess - certainly not the HE90, or any Senn electrostat for that matter.


----------



## Torac (May 17, 2019)

georgep said:


> That box has been heavily modified by an end user. What the white connector is for is anybody's guess - certainly not the HE90, or any Senn electrostat for that matter.


I did a bit of looking around, it looks like a lemo 6 pin connector but I'm not sure what they were using it for, perhaps for a DIY electrostatic headphone?
The box also appears to be missing the speaker pass through connectors on the back (I bought the unit in the end) not sure if this has any significance.


----------



## florence

Anyone knows 007A sz2-15xx manufacture date possibly? Is it different than international black sz3 series?


----------



## riverred105

florence said:


> Anyone knows 007A sz2-15xx manufacture date possibly? Is it different than international black sz3 series?


 Ditto, also what about pricing?


----------



## hpeter

VRacer-111 said:


> 1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


basically what i have done before, but with other material. search  forum for "bassfart mod" 

this fights well with low bass issues


----------



## BreadMaster

florence said:


> Does srm353x enough power to drive sr007s?


H3ll No.


----------



## JimL11 (Jun 7, 2019)

florence said:


> Does srm353x enough power to drive sr007s?



Enough power? Yes, by the specs it is only 1 dB less powerful than the SRM727 (400VRMS vs. 450VRMS at 1 kHz), but likely lacking in refinement.



florence said:


> Anyone knows 007A sz2-15xx manufacture date possibly? Is it different than international black sz3 series?



As spritzer has pointed out elsewhere, there doesn't seem to be any correlation between serial number and manufacture date.


----------



## purk

Tha


JimL11 said:


> This is the Sennheiser OEM HE90 jack that Moon Audio sells.



That’s the HEV90 jack.  The female jack of the HE90.  My HE90 loves that jack on both my Carbon and T2.


----------



## BreadMaster

purk said:


> Tha
> 
> 
> That’s the HEV90 jack.  The female jack of the HE90.  My HE90 loves that jack on both my Carbon and T2.


Yeaaaaaah plug those holes up baby.


----------



## BreadMaster

purk said:


> Tha
> 
> 
> That’s the HEV90 jack.  The female jack of the HE90.  My HE90 loves that jack on both my Carbon and T2.


Hey @purk ,  will i finally be accepted into the "cool kids club" if i get the diy t2 this year?


----------



## purk

BreadMaster said:


> Hey @purk ,  will i finally be accepted into the "cool kids club" if i get the diy t2 this year?



Anyone who loves Stax already got in!


----------



## Fickle-Friend

Can I ask, do you guys have an issue with dust on the headphones?


----------



## bearFNF (Jun 8, 2019)

Fickle-Friend said:


> Can I ask, do you guys have an issue with dust on the headphones?


"On" or "in". But to answer both options, used to get dust "on" them, but not anymore as I am now in the habit of putting them in their box when not using them.


----------



## oneguy

Fickle-Friend said:


> Can I ask, do you guys have an issue with dust on the headphones?


I have mine underneath a microfiber bag on a headphone stand. No dust


----------



## bluesaint

Fickle-Friend said:


> Can I ask, do you guys have an issue with dust on the headphones?



Dust and air free.


----------



## JimL11

Stax headphones have had dust shields for decades. I keep my SR-007s in the box when not in use, but I also have a pair of SR-5 headphones that I've had since the 1980's that have been sitting out since I got them, and still work fine.


----------



## bearFNF

Yep, forgot to mention the Lambda NB I have had since the '80s no box just hanging on a headphone stand, still work fine.


----------



## tumpux

JimL11 said:


> I also have a pair of SR-5 headphones that I've had since the 1980's



I always want to ask this to the older stax users.
How did you find about stax without... internet?


----------



## JimL11

tumpux said:


> I always want to ask this to the older stax users.
> How did you find about stax without... internet?



Back in the old days there were these things called "hi fi magazines" that you could subscribe to or buy at a "book store", or read in the "library", and also "audio stores," where you could hang out and listen to recorded music and also talk to "salesmen".


----------



## tumpux

Is it common to have audio store in US that carry stax back in the 80s?


----------



## JimL11

Back in the 70's and '80s, headphones were considered accessories. Quite a few audio stores didn't carry headphones at all, but if they did it was probably the Sennheiser HE414's with the yellow foam pads. I think the Koss Pro 4AAA was another big seller then, and Koss also had some early electrostatics like the ESP6. I have no idea how common it was for audio stores to carry Stax back then but probably not many did. The big mags were High Fidelity and Stereo Review. Stereophile had been around since the 1960's, and The Absolute Sound started in the mid 1970's but they were relatively low circulation. I found out about Stax from Stereophile, and I bought my Stax SR-5/SRD-6 used at a Q Audio, little shop in Cambridge, MA which specialized in selling used gear, without auditioning them, mainly because my speakers were also electrostatic - the original Quad ESLs.


----------



## statfi

*I* cut my teeth on Koss Pro4A  !-)  I did some live recording and really needed cans.  I do not remember using them for just listening (i.e., when I was not recording).  Then in the early 90's I walked into a hifi shop, I believe in Mt Kisco, NY, looking for loudspeakers, and out of curiosity listened to a Stax earspeaker that was on display, and was converted.  I learned about them in a brick and mortar shop.  I am a little embarrassed to say, though, that I actually bought my first pair at Stereo Exchange in NYC.


----------



## tumpux

Just to get the context, what made it embarassing getting it from Stereo Exchange?


----------



## Dan Lee

So my electrostatic journey has moved along at a relatively insane pace.  I started with an iESL, iCAN, iDSD and a pair of SR-L700's.  Now I am running the KGSSHV Carbon and have a Denafrips Terminator on the way.  I have the Stax SR-009, SR-009S, Hifiman Shangri-La Jr, and MrSpeakers Voce. I should have the Terminator, 009S, and Voce all within the next week or so.  I am trying to decide, hopefully with some assistance from some of you fine folks, if I should go ahead and pick up the 007's too.  I think it will be rather interesting to be able to try them all out on the same system back to back.  I originally hadnt intended on having them all at the same time, but somehow it has worked out this way and Im gonna hold off on selling anything till Ive had a chance to hear it all together.  

Just curious if you guys think the 007 offers enough of a difference to warrant its inclusion in this lineup.  

Thanks


----------



## natto lover

007 is king so I vote yes


----------



## statfi

tumpux said:


> Just to get the context, what made it embarassing getting it from Stereo Exchange?


Good question.  The place in Mt. Kisco really sold me on these cans, funding their attractive display, and Stereo Exchange reaped the benefit.  Somehow it seems worse to shop in brick and mortar then buy mail-order, but this is along those lines.  I had nothing against Stereo Exchange, per se.


----------



## Ojisan

Dan Lee said:


> So my electrostatic journey has moved along at a relatively insane pace.  I started with an iESL, iCAN, iDSD and a pair of SR-L700's.  Now I am running the KGSSHV Carbon and have a Denafrips Terminator on the way.  I have the Stax SR-009, SR-009S, Hifiman Shangri-La Jr, and MrSpeakers Voce. I should have the Terminator, 009S, and Voce all within the next week or so.  I am trying to decide, hopefully with some assistance from some of you fine folks, if I should go ahead and pick up the 007's too.  I think it will be rather interesting to be able to try them all out on the same system back to back.  I originally hadnt intended on having them all at the same time, but somehow it has worked out this way and Im gonna hold off on selling anything till Ive had a chance to hear it all together.
> 
> Just curious if you guys think the 007 offers enough of a difference to warrant its inclusion in this lineup.
> 
> Thanks



I know I would if I were you.


----------



## jrfmd (Jun 11, 2019)

Dan Lee said:


> So my electrostatic journey has moved along at a relatively insane pace.  I started with an iESL, iCAN, iDSD and a pair of SR-L700's.  Now I am running the KGSSHV Carbon and have a Denafrips Terminator on the way.  I have the Stax SR-009, SR-009S, Hifiman Shangri-La Jr, and MrSpeakers Voce. I should have the Terminator, 009S, and Voce all within the next week or so.  I am trying to decide, hopefully with some assistance from some of you fine folks, if I should go ahead and pick up the 007's too.  I think it will be rather interesting to be able to try them all out on the same system back to back.  I originally hadnt intended on having them all at the same time, but somehow it has worked out this way and Im gonna hold off on selling anything till Ive had a chance to hear it all together.
> 
> Just curious if you guys think the 007 offers enough of a difference to warrant its inclusion in this lineup.
> 
> Thanks


I have the 007 and the 009s and find them very different: my 007 has its port closed to get rid of mid bass bloat and the result is a less sharply defined, warmer sound than the 009s
I personally like them both, but very different
JRF


----------



## Dan Lee

Thanks for the input guys.  Have any of you been able to compare the Voce to the Stax lineup?


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## bearFNF

I have all three of these 009, 007 Mk II, and Voce. They are all very good headphones, they all have their uses. To me the main differences are 009 for detail and quickness, 007 for warmth, Voce for layering. It really comes down to minor differences that give each it's unique signature and picking which one matches what your looking for, for a given mood and listening session.

Lately it's been Voce I have been reaching for most.


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## Dan Lee

bearFNF said:


> I have all three of these 009, 007 Mk II, and Voce. They are all very good headphones, they all have their uses. To me the main differences are 009 for detail and quickness, 007 for warmth, Voce for layering. It really comes down to minor differences that give each it's unique signature and picking which one matches what your looking for, for a given mood and listening session.
> 
> Lately it's been Voce I have been reaching for most.


Thank you my friend.  That was exactly what I was hoping to hear.


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## statfi

bearFNF said:


> Voce for layering


Could you give us a few words on what you mean by layering?  Thx!


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## bearFNF (Jun 12, 2019)

statfi said:


> Could you give us a few words on what you mean by layering?  Thx!


Here what I wrote in one of the Voce threads on this,
 "After some longer listening periods I at first thought the Voce were "missing" something as there appeared to be holes in the sound I was hearing. However after some time comparing I believe what I am hearing is slightly different (more defined?) transitions going up and down the frequency scale. Not sure if that made sense, but the upshot is that I can hear details in-between that are hidden with the smoother presentation of the 009. Example is that I can hear fingers on guitar strings in some tracks with Voce that I can not hear with the 009."

Here's a link to the full post, https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mrs...ning-impressions.804022/page-59#post-14207555
Dan also responds to this here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mrs...ning-impressions.804022/page-59#post-14208285


----------



## georgep

bearFNF said:


> Here what I wrote in one of the Voce threads on this,
> "After some longer listening periods I at first thought the Voce were "missing" something as there appeared to be holes in the sound I was hearing. However after some time comparing I believe what I am hearing is slightly different (more defined?) transitions going up and down the frequency scale. Not sure if that made sense, but the upshot is that I can hear details in-between that are hidden with the smoother presentation of the 009. Example is that I can hear fingers on guitar strings in some tracks with Voce that I can not hear with the 009."
> 
> Here's a link to the full post, https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mrs...ning-impressions.804022/page-59#post-14207555
> Dan also responds to this here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mrs...ning-impressions.804022/page-59#post-14208285



Care to share which tracks (and format) and at which time you heard fingers on guitar strings with the Voce that you could not hear with the 009? Would be helpful.


----------



## bearFNF

georgep said:


> Care to share which tracks (and format) and at which time you heard fingers on guitar strings with the Voce that you could not hear with the 009? Would be helpful.


I'll see what I can do, it's been a year since that post. But it is probably one of my standard testing tracks...??


----------



## statfi

bearFNF said:


> I can hear fingers on guitar strings in some tracks with Voce that I can not hear with the 009


Perfect example!  Thanks!  I need to give the Voce another, better listen.


----------



## bearFNF

georgep said:


> Care to share which tracks (and format) and at which time you heard fingers on guitar strings with the Voce that you could not hear with the 009? Would be helpful.


Sorry to say I can't find the exact time, however try listening to these tracks.
Alison Krauss - "When you say nothing at all" and "baby, now that I've found you" and "Every time you say goodbye", Flac is what I have. There just seems to be more texture to the instruments to me in addition to the fingers hitting the strings. YMMV

There are some good examples I don't think you would have in your library like Choro Club's - Rainbow -choro version for Aria the origination sound track or the acoustic version of Rainbow from Aria the Animation original soundtrack.

Another one would be Dan's suggestion Ne Viden by Scann-Tec on Tidal.


----------



## Tugbars

What about STAX  DACs. Like DAC-Talent or the old behemoth X1T/X2T are they any good?


----------



## generick

Hi, I recently blew the fuse on my sr252s, was wondering what fuse I need to replace the blown one.


----------



## Jones Bob

If anyone is interested,,,,,

Posted For Sale my STAX SR-009
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-stax-sr-009.907758/#post-15006319

Also For Sale my KGSS Grounded Grid amp 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-sale-kgss-grounded-grid-amp.908844/


----------



## BreadMaster

Jones Bob said:


> If anyone is interested,,,,,
> 
> Posted For Sale my STAX SR-009
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-stax-sr-009.907758/#post-15006319
> ...


awww.. Jone needs to listen to a DIY T2...


----------



## Jones Bob

I am inline for the mini-T2 PCB GB on that other site.


----------



## Trance_Gott (Jun 16, 2019)

Battle of the Closed Back Giants:







A miracle happened and I got the possibility to get a Stax 4070 of the last series with improved headband adjustment in best condition.

Maybe 200 pieces were built. Many of them already ruined in recording studios. In such a top condition and still original with the first cushions there is perhaps still a handful in the world and to get these a difficult undertaking as I had to determine myself.

You also have to be careful with the 4070, that possibly changed pads, which fit on the fabric side (all Lambda pads fit) on the 4070, but the template headphone side for the double-sided tape just does not fit. This must be cut to size, otherwise it will cover some areas and the headphones will sound much worse.

The 4070 plays in contrast to the 009 meatier with more bass. A Lambda but with bass. A 007 is warmer with even more bass and further the king of Stax.

The isolation is on Stellia level with even less leakage to the outside. It sounds amazingly open with an impressive three-dimensionality for a closed and tidy fundamental as well as bass.

With classical music, however, no other of my headphones except the Mysphere has a chance against the 4070 - that's already clear. Terrific! Jazz fabulous! Metal, that's fun with punchy bass!

I now had all closed headphones except the R10. Stellia and 4070 are clearly the locking tips of the closed series!


----------



## Dan Lee

Hey all my Denafrips Terminator came in today.  I have only listened to it for about an hour and a half, but I can honestly say this is by far the best dac I have ever heard.  Before this I had no idea a dac could have this much impact.  Every single aspect of the sound is better.  Just unreal.  I will post more later.

p.s. @Trance_Gott that 4070 looks incredible.


----------



## urs

Trance_Gott said:


> Battle of the Closed Back Giants:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thomas,

Congrats to your successful “Grand Finale of your Treasure Hunt”. 

What is new in the design of the head band for your model of the 4070 ?
(My older model  – around 2005 or so – was indeed rather uncomfortable)

And re: “Best of Closed”: did  you had a chance to listen to the _AT- L5000_ ? (This one is still missing in my personal “Best Of Closed list” )

Regards

Urs


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## Trance_Gott (Jun 19, 2019)

Hi Urs,

for my understanding the headband of the first batch of 4070 is more stiff and the cups had another angle. In the other forum (not allowed to post here) there is a image showing early vs new one.
I heared a lot of ATs all were not in the class of Stellia and 4070. But I never heared L3000 maybe it's better but I don't believe such good like the other 2.

@Dan Lee: Thanks I'm so happy to get a 4070


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## cat6man

Local stereo stores were a thing back then.
I had a local tech hifi in my massachusetts college town that i used to drop in on (late 1960s).
I've had stax headphones since my junior year of college.
At the time, I used my Kenwood receiver to power the Stax engerizer.


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## cat6man

If anyone is interested,,,,,I've arrived at end-game velocity and have my DIY T2  

Posted For Sale my BHSE
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blue-hawaii-se-w-alps-volume-control.903790/


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## BreadMaster

cat6man said:


> If anyone is interested,,,,,I've arrived at end-game velocity and have my DIY T2
> 
> Posted For Sale my BHSE
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blue-hawaii-se-w-alps-volume-control.903790/


Wow.. Nice... So how is it?  Is Mulveling and Whitegirl bullschitting?


----------



## BreadMaster

Dan Lee said:


> Hey all my Denafrips Terminator came in today.  I have only listened to it for about an hour and a half, but I can honestly say this is by far the best dac I have ever heard.  Before this I had no idea a dac could have this much impact.  Every single aspect of the sound is better.  Just unreal.  I will post more later.
> 
> p.s. @Trance_Gott that 4070 looks incredible.


Yeah?  Makes you wonder why some people are so stubborn with their believe that all dacs and amp sound the same...


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## Velomane

Cat6man, where did you get your T2?


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## protoss

@Trance_Gott Beautiful 4070.

The remarkable legendary 4070! Can you post stand alone beauty shots of the 4070 please! I missed my chance in taking shots of these when i came across them awhile ago  



Tugbars said:


> What about STAX  DACs. Like DAC-Talent or the old behemoth X1T/X2T are they any good?



The Dac Talent and X1T are legendary DAC's. 

The X1T is one of the greatest dacs ever built! And one of the greatest dacs that was ever built was from STAXs! This is a testament on why Staxs is a swiss army knife company. They can do anything! 
There is no such thing as a X2T.... Okay well there is, the X2T was a name they just used for the Japanese market. The only thing that was different was the naming.


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## jrfmd (Jan 11, 2020)

Trance_Gott said:


> Voce is easily beaten by 009, 007 an even L700 is better! Soundstage like a tunnel very unrealistic and lacks impact.


I have the 009s, thestax 007mkii (with port mod) and voce powered by the blue hawaii and d/a'd by a blu-dave combo and sourced from a macbook feeding 16bit cds stored as apple lossless
my favorite is the 007.  usually the 007mkii with port mod is much nicer than the 009s but (overall), vast majority of most kinds of music sound best on 007
as always, imho only.
Jeff


----------



## Velomane

Thanks for the report Jeff


----------



## Dan Lee

jrfmd said:


> I have the 009s, thestax 007mkii (with port mod) and voce powered by the blue hawaii and d/a'd by a blu-dave combo and sourced from a macbook feeding 16bit cds stored as apple lossless
> my favorite is the voce- very distinct positioning with no smearing, true tones, exciting with most music.  Some very congested recordings sound better on the 007mkii and the 009s and usually the 007mkii with port mod is much nicer than the 009s but (overall), vast majority of most kinds of music sound best on voce
> as always, imho only.
> Jeff


While I cant agree 100% here.  I will absolutely concede that the Voce is fantastic headphone.  I think there are a few things about this headphone that people miss when they listen to it.  Obviously it will not have the detail of the 009 or 009S.  Its advantages are harder to notice as they are not what people typically notice in a new headphone.  The Voce is the first headphone I have come across that instead of placing the typical emphasis of detail on the top end they focus it on the midrange and background details.  In my initial listening sessions I was able to hear things in the midrange so clearly that I didnt hear on the 009/S.  The 009/S still shows you the background in detail, but just not quite in the same way.  That being said I do enjoy the 009S above the Voce in every other way.

The other thing that will really impact the Voce and all of your stat cans is a great amp and a great source.  You read a post about the importance a great dac on every couple posts.  I can attest to this 100% having just received the best dac I've heard to date and experienced the unreal changes it has made to the sound of my setup.  Everything improved dramatically.  Soundstage, 3 dimensionality, tonality, imaging, and every other audiophile descriptive word you can think of.  The change that was most dramatic was the one I least expected to experience.  The Terminator instantly made the bass that was previously perceived as weak or slightly underpowered sound perfect and more impactful and accurate.  It just goes to show how much information is lost by an inferior DAC.


----------



## BreadMaster

Dan Lee said:


> While I cant agree 100% here.  I will absolutely concede that the Voce is fantastic headphone.  I think there are a few things about this headphone that people miss when they listen to it.  Obviously it will not have the detail of the 009 or 009S.  Its advantages are harder to notice as they are not what people typically notice in a new headphone.  The Voce is the first headphone I have come across that instead of placing the typical emphasis of detail on the top end they focus it on the midrange and background details.  In my initial listening sessions I was able to hear things in the midrange so clearly that I didnt hear on the 009/S.  The 009/S still shows you the background in detail, but just not quite in the same way.  That being said I do enjoy the 009S above the Voce in every other way.
> 
> The other thing that will really impact the Voce and all of your stat cans is a great amp and a great source.  You read a post about the importance a great dac on every couple posts.  I can attest to this 100% having just received the best dac I've heard to date and experienced the unreal changes it has made to the sound of my setup.  Everything improved dramatically.  Soundstage, 3 dimensionality, tonality, imaging, and every other audiophile descriptive word you can think of.  The change that was most dramatic was the one I least expected to experience.  The Terminator instantly made the bass that was previously perceived as weak or slightly underpowered sound perfect and more impactful and accurate.  It just goes to show how much information is lost by an inferior DAC.



Nah man,  that's bs.  all dacs regardless of price sound the same.  You don't need to spend thousands for a dac when all you need is an odac really, it's all snake oil man.


----------



## protoss

@Dan Lee I wonder who got you into 'The Terminator'?


----------



## Dan Lee

Haha @BreadMaster anyone who thinks a dac under a grand is good enough is simply not paying attention to the hifi community.  

@protoss I owe you a great debt for recommending this unit to me man.  I was heavily considering the Holo Spring 3 and basically was set on it until you brought this one up.  I still can't believe the impact it has had on the sound.  I have heard cheaper dacs in abundance back to back and had the most difficult time noticing subtle differences, but with this it is just night and day.

Now I'm thinking of grabbing a Singxer SU-6 to run I2S via HDMI.  I am also trying to figure out how or if I can use a tube preamp with the Carbon to inject a bit of tube flavor to the sound.


----------



## walakalulu

Don’t know about the Carbon but using the tubed Audio Research CD9 as source into a KGGG sounds fantastic via 009S.


----------



## jbrownson (Jun 22, 2019)

I haven’t ever written an equipment review or comparison, but for some time now I’ve owned both a Carbon CC and a Blue Hawaii SE and since that isn’t all that common I thought I’d do my best to share my thoughts on the two of them, amateur as the result may be.

I see folks come at describing audio equipment from several different angles, so I think it’s important I try to explain what I look for in my audio equipment. For me it’s all about speed and transparency. The biggest thing I notice about a nice electrost system is the sound of cymbals. I love how crisp they sound. I notice the same thing with sharp transients like a snare drum. They seem to be more precise and clear on a fast system. That’s the most important aspect to me. I also like a nice neutral tone curve, not too bass heavy. I mostly listen to jazz/classical and a bit of electronic. I don’t seem as attached to soundstage as others can be, so I don’t think I’m a reliable source for comment there.

First the BHSE:

I first heard the BHSE in person at the 2018 RMAF CanJam. My main rig at the time was a Chord Qutest -> Stax SRM-353X -> Stax SR-L700. I’d spent more time than I’d like to admit reading through the head-fi forms about the BHSE and was very impressed w/ what I heard at the show, though of course it’s very challenging to evaluate headphone equipment in a noisy environment with so much going on. I wound up purchasing one of the two BHSEs HeadAmp had at the show and it was shipped to me very promptly after the show ended. It was packaged extremely well with perfect reusable foam inserts, and was easy to setup.

Before I even got a chance to listen to the BHSE I was absolutely smitten with its build. Everything is precise and strikes a perfect balance between form and function. It has the most satisfying power switch I’ve ever toggled. I feel like I’m preparing to launch a missile every time I power it on. The circuits have a significant automatic delay to warm up the tubes before activating the headphones, but it’s well worth the wait.

I plugged in my L700s and was floored with the improvement from the 353X. It wasn’t long until I was inspired to pull the trigger on a pair of Stax SR-009Ss. Though the 009Ss are indeed fantastic, I found the step from the 353X to the BHSE to be more impressive than the step from the L700s to the 009Ss. I wondered if the L700s would scale up past the 353X and the answer is clear. They absolutely do.

Now the Carbon CC:

I was enjoying the BHSE system tremendously, but had long been curious about the Carbon. I settled on the BHSE because I was able to hear it in person, and it had two outputs so I could listen with my girlfriend. One day I happened to pull up Mjolnir’s webpage and noticed he had posted some Carbon CCs with two outputs, and got curious. Once again I spent far too much time reading through the head-fi forums about the Carbon/Carbon CC. I’ve never been particularly attracted to tube equipment for largely aesthetic reasons, the extra considerations that come with thinking about when to replace the tubes, or tube rolling, and the disconcerting crackling noise you get as the tubes heat up or cool down. With that and the descriptions of just how transparent the Carbon can be I decided the Carbon sounded like it would be right for me and placed an order.

When I got notice that the package was at the local post office I arranged to pick it up in the morning so I wouldn’t have to wait for it to be delivered. I got the box home and found it thoroughly protected inside the box, but the packaging was not reusable as the BHSE was. While the BHSE’s build quality strikes a perfect balance between form and function, the Carbon’s build quality exudes function. It is sturdy and efficient, but I didn’t find myself lost in its eyes as with the BHSE. The headphone plugs in the Carbon are easier to plug in and unplug from, but don’t have quite as sturdy a feel as the BHSE.

I got everything plugged in and pressed the power button to be greeted by the trademark orange light. I started playing music straight away without the tube delay I’d grown accustomed to with the BHSE. The difference wasn’t quite as stark going from the BHSE to the Carbon as it had been going from the 353X to the BHSE, but there certainly was a difference. I find the Carbon to be significantly more transparent than the BHSE. It is also more neutral tonally. I was never bothered by the BHSE’s bass levels, but when compared to the Carbon I do find the BHSE to be a bit bright and a lacking on low end.

Summary:

The build quality of the BHSE is incredible. It is just as much a work of visual and tactile art as it is a masterpiece of audio circuitry. The build quality of the Carbon is sturdy and reliable, but stark.

The Carbon is significantly more transparent and neutral. Some may prefer the less clinical sound of the BHSE, but for my taste the Carbon is a clear step up.

The convenience of a solid state system is really great. I don’t have to stress if I accidentally leave it on overnight, I don’t have to wait for it to warm up, and it just takes one shelf on my rack. I never have to search around to see what tubes I should try or wonder if the ones I’m using are due for replacement.


----------



## silversurfer616

Exactly my problem at the moment: which amp to go for with my 009S.
Love the looks of the BHSE and heard it at the HighEnd in Munich albeit with a Voce and Dave...it didn't wow me and I came away with the feeling that my Border Patrol dac and KGSS is already good enough for me.
But knowing myself I can't really relax until I have one of the two amps, so your evaluation is really helpful and certainly guides me towards the Carbon.
On the other hand I sometimes think I better invest in a better dac and keep the KGSS....? Had the Hex before and after more than a year my ears were utterly bored by it whereas the BP still excites  and engages me.
Listen mainly to rock, jazz, folk and never classic.


----------



## Feilong4

Does anyone so happen know how to disassemble this Stax normal bias connector for soldering? It's an Amphenol connector that I bought from an ebay seller - I asked the seller yesterday but haven't gotten a reply yet.


----------



## chinsettawong

Feilong4 said:


> Does anyone so happen know how to disassemble this Stax normal bias connector for soldering? It's an Amphenol connector that I bought from an ebay seller - I asked the seller yesterday but haven't gotten a reply yet.


No, you don’t disassemble the pins.  You strip the wires and insert them inside the pins and let the wires hang out through the hole a little.  You then solder on the very tip of each pin.  That’s how I did mine.


----------



## Feilong4

chinsettawong said:


> No, you don’t disassemble the pins.  You strip the wires and insert them inside the pins and let the wires hang out through the hole a little.  You then solder on the very tip of each pin.  That’s how I did mine.



Ah, thanks! Do you so happen to know what wires can be used to make a cable? I'm not sure where to source the wires or whether wires from Mogami W2893 cables would be ok.


----------



## Scgorg

Find wire rated for 600V, the go to recommendation from the stax mafia for internal wiring in amps is teflon shielded wire, but there are of course alternatives.


----------



## Feilong4

Scgorg said:


> Find wire rated for 600V, the go to recommendation from the stax mafia for internal wiring in amps is teflon shielded wire, but there are of course alternatives.



Thanks for letting me know! I've got a few other questions:

- Do you have a specific source where one might get some? 
- Does the wire have to be a particular gauge?
- Since it'll be for a Normal bias plug (230V), would it be ok to go for wires at a lower rating or is it still recommended to get ones rated at 600V?


----------



## chinsettawong

Feilong4 said:


> Ah, thanks! Do you so happen to know what wires can be used to make a cable? I'm not sure where to source the wires or whether wires from Mogami W2893 cables would be ok.


I use Koss electrostatic headphones’ extension cord.  You can call the service center and buy from them.


----------



## JimL11 (Jun 23, 2019)

Feilong4 said:


> Thanks for letting me know! I've got a few other questions:
> 
> - Do you have a specific source where one might get some?
> - Does the wire have to be a particular gauge?
> - Since it'll be for a Normal bias plug (230V), would it be ok to go for wires at a lower rating or is it still recommended to get ones rated at 600V?



What you need is not only proper voltage rating, but also low capacitance. Also, you want the wire to have a stable capacitance, which means not loose wires like the HFM. You will notice that the two most experienced (by far) manufacturers of electrostatic headphones, Koss and Stax, have both settled on a parallel ribbon cable design, which should tell you something. Probably your best bets are either Koss ribbon type extension cables, which have 6 wires, or an old Stax 6 wire extension cable. Of course for the Koss you'll have to cut off the end and strip the wires. Of course the Stax already has the plug installed.


----------



## Feilong4

chinsettawong said:


> I use Koss electrostatic headphones’ extension cord.  You can call the service center and buy from them.





JimL11 said:


> What you need is not only proper voltage rating, but also low capacitance. Also, you want the wire to have a stable capacitance, which means not loose wires like the HFM. You will notice that the two most experienced (by far) manufacturers of electrostatic headphones, Koss and Stax, have both settled on a parallel ribbon cable design, which should tell you something. Probably your best bets are either Koss ribbon type extension cables, which have 6 wires, or an old Stax 6 wire extension cable. Of course for the Koss you'll have to cut off the end and strip the wires. Of course the Stax already has the plug installed.



Do you guys know how much Koss is selling them for? I emailed a rep and was told that there isn't any in stock. A buddy of mine also told me to call them since they may give me a different answer.

The only other place that sells them that I was able to dig up is FongAudio for 59 USD.


----------



## vrockz

Hi,

Could any one of you SR-007 Mk2 owners help me out on my question.

Would STAX SRM-D50 be able to drive STAX SR-007MK2?


----------



## BenF

vrockz said:


> Hi,
> 
> Could any one of you SR-007 Mk2 owners help me out on my question.
> 
> Would STAX SRM-D50 be able to drive STAX SR-007MK2?


No, it can barely drive 009


----------



## vrockz

BenF said:


> No, it can barely drive 009



Thanks for the reply BenF.

What amp would you recommend between STAX SRM-007tII and STAX SRM-727II.


----------



## BenF

vrockz said:


> Thanks for the reply BenF.
> 
> What amp would you recommend between STAX SRM-007tII and STAX SRM-727II.


You really should audition 007MK2 with the amp before purchasing either one of them.
It sounded very warm/dark on Blue Hawaii, very un-electrostat-like.


----------



## -HaVoC-Tzu-

Dan Lee said:


> While I cant agree 100% here.  I will absolutely concede that the Voce is fantastic headphone.  I think there are a few things about this headphone that people miss when they listen to it.  Obviously it will not have the detail of the 009 or 009S.  Its advantages are harder to notice as they are not what people typically notice in a new headphone.  The Voce is the first headphone I have come across that instead of placing the typical emphasis of detail on the top end they focus it on the midrange and background details.  In my initial listening sessions I was able to hear things in the midrange so clearly that I didnt hear on the 009/S.  The 009/S still shows you the background in detail, but just not quite in the same way.  That being said I do enjoy the 009S above the Voce in every other way.
> 
> The other thing that will really impact the Voce and all of your stat cans is a great amp and a great source.  You read a post about the importance a great dac on every couple posts.  I can attest to this 100% having just received the best dac I've heard to date and experienced the unreal changes it has made to the sound of my setup.  Everything improved dramatically.  Soundstage, 3 dimensionality, tonality, imaging, and every other audiophile descriptive word you can think of.  The change that was most dramatic was the one I least expected to experience.  The Terminator instantly made the bass that was previously perceived as weak or slightly underpowered sound perfect and more impactful and accurate.  It just goes to show how much information is lost by an inferior DAC.



I drove from the Bay Area to Can Jam So Cal just to hear electrostatics because they are hard to find here.
Unfortunately they didn’t have the two STAX headphones that I wanted to hear, the SR-009S and the SR-007mk2 
However they did have a Voce hooked up to a Chord Dave/m-scaler/blue Hawaii.  The level of detail is unlike anything i’ve heard before.  It really sounded like I was there on stage with Bob Marley looking down at the crowd (I had no idea those old recordings were that good).  
The level of detail is insane, but the sound is not sugar-coated at all, just pure detail which I can appreciate, but I think it would make sense to have this and an LCD-4 to get kind of the opposite effect.
They also had the RR1-Conquest and L700.
THE RR1, while to me was not nearly as good as the Voce detail wise is VERY good for the price, it competes with headphones in the $1500 price range.
The L700, I listened to on 2 separate amps and was not impressed (I like my Utopia better).

Does the 009S and/or 007mk2 have a more ‘lovely’ sound than the voce without sacrificing detail?


----------



## Dan Lee

@vrockz I have a couple questions just to get a better understanding of where you are headed with stats.  What are you planning to use as your DAC?  What is your budget for an amp?  Do you plan to upgrade in the future if you find stats to your liking?

@-HaVoC-Tzu- I imagine the BHSE paired with the DAVE will sound a bit different then my Carbon paired with the Denafrips Terminator.  That being said I have the 007MK2 on the way but havent reviewed them yet.  The 009 is very accurate sounding for the most part.  It definitely has an emphasis on the top end though.  There is no coloration or 'lovely' nature to the sound.  The 009S is essentially the same as the 009 only it does seem to have a sense of richness or a 'lovely' nature to the sound though subtle.  For me the Voce has all of these qualities perfectly melded together without the top end emphasis.  The 009/S is definitely a bit more detailed up top, but the Voce is at the very least close and the midrange is more detailed on the Voce.  I find that they work very well as complementary pairs.


----------



## vrockz

Dan Lee said:


> @vrockz I have a couple questions just to get a better understanding of where you are headed with stats.  What are you planning to use as your DAC?  What is your budget for an amp?  Do you plan to upgrade in the future if you find stats to your liking?



Thanks for you reply Dan.

I was initially planning to use STAX SRM-D50 as DAC/AMP with STAX SR-007MK2, but the other user informed that D50 would not be able to drive 007 so i haven't decided on the DAC yet, i will have to investigate if i can use my HDV 820 as DAC/Preamp. My budget for an electrostatic amp is around 1500 -1800. Yes, if i find stats to my linking i am planning to upgrade in future to 009s but that it atleast after an year.


----------



## VRacer-111

vrockz said:


> Thanks for you reply Dan.
> 
> I was initially planning to use STAX SRM-D50 as DAC/AMP with STAX SR-007MK2, but the other user informed that D50 would not be able to drive 007 so i haven't decided on the DAC yet, i will have to investigate if i can use my HDV 820 as DAC/Preamp. My budget for an electrostatic amp is around 1500 -1800. Yes, if i find stats to my linking i am planning to upgrade in future to 009s but that it atleast after an year.



Do you have a good, high quality 2-channel stereo amp? If so you can run an electrostat transformer for it like the Mjolnir Audio modded STAX SRD-7. I've listened to an SR-007 Mk2 on my setup (RME ADI-2 DAC [as a DAC preamp] -> NAD C275BEE -> Mjolnir SRD-7) and it was definitely better than my L300 Limiteds... driven very well and had the best bass I've heard to date from a stock STAX. Most cost effective way to really run more demanding estats and you can swap out/try different amps to find preference if you wish as the amp determines how estats will sound more so than with dynamic or planar magnetics.


----------



## arielext (Jun 28, 2019)

.


----------



## Torac (Jun 28, 2019)

Hi, I have a problem I'm hoping someone might be able to help me with. I own a SRM-T1 and L-300, the l300 sounds pretty nice up to '2' on the volume pot of the T1 however after that everything sounds really distorted. I have replaced the tubes which didn't make much difference, I also replaced the caps in the T1 and rebiased it and this helped make it clearer but the problem is still there. Any suggestions, could really do with a point in the right direction? Thanks.


----------



## JimL11

EssentialEDM said:


> Hi, I have a problem I'm hoping someone might be able to help me with. I own a SRM-T1 and L-300, the l300 sounds pretty nice up to '2' on the volume pot of the T1 however after that everything sounds really distorted. I have replaced the tubes which didn't make much difference, I also replaced the caps in the T1 and rebiased it and this helped make it clearer but the problem is still there. Any suggestions, could really do with a point in the right direction? Thanks.



Hmm. The SRM-T1/006 series are generally considered ideal amps for the Lambda series, which includes the L-300 as one of the current iterations. It may be that you are demanding too much volume, which could damage you hearing in the long run. So one possibility is to just accept the limit as being what is safe for your ears long term.

Two o'clock on the volume control is really pretty high, although to some extent it also depends on the output of your sources. However, what may be happening is that you are running into the limits of the amp. In the case of the T1 the limiting factor is the output resistors, which are 66 kilohms and suck up the majority of the signal current by Ohm's law V = IR, where V is voltage, I is current, and R is resistance. The output resistors in fact use more current than the headphones, which have a higher impedance - the L300 has a rated impedance of 145 kilohms at 10 kHz, and progressively higher at lower frequencies. 

Replacing the output resistors with constant current sources greatly alleviates this problem, as constant current sources do not burn up any significant signal current, thus allowing the output tubes to send significantly more signal current to the headphones. I published an article on this in AudioXpress magazine July 2017 which discusses this in some detail. One thing that was left out of the article but is highly recommended is the addition of 5 megohm bias resistors between the last bias supply capacitor and the output socket. These can be interposed where the bias supply wires go from the circuit board to the output socket. For further discussion of the sonic results of this mod, check out the posts between Muffinhead and myself from Jan and Feb 2018 in this thread.


----------



## arielext

'2' is around 8 o'clock if I am not mistaken


----------



## AudioThief

Hello guys.

I am close to pulling the trigger on the L300, which I have previously owned. I am downgrading from 007 mk1. I am seeing a used 507 for sale, price is about the same as a new L300. 

I prefered the overall signature of the L300 over the 007, although the 007 was the superior headphone and I would not have downgraded had it not been for financial issues. L300 are adequate for me in terms of technicalities. Is there any reason for me to get the 507? I've read they are hot tempered in the treble, but I've had the TH 900 and it didn't really bother me in terms of treble - The V-shape was what bothered me.


----------



## Torac

arielext said:


> '2' is around 8 o'clock if I am not mistaken


Yes


----------



## Torac (Jun 29, 2019)

JimL11 said:


> Hmm. The SRM-T1/006 series are generally considered ideal amps for the Lambda series, which includes the L-300 as one of the current iterations. It may be that you are demanding too much volume, which could damage you hearing in the long run. So one possibility is to just accept the limit as being what is safe for your ears long term.
> 
> Two o'clock on the volume control is really pretty high, although to some extent it also depends on the output of your sources. However, what may be happening is that you are running into the limits of the amp. In the case of the T1 the limiting factor is the output resistors, which are 66 kilohms and suck up the majority of the signal current by Ohm's law V = IR, where V is voltage, I is current, and R is resistance. The output resistors in fact use more current than the headphones, which have a higher impedance - the L300 has a rated impedance of 145 kilohms at 10 kHz, and progressively higher at lower frequencies.
> 
> Replacing the output resistors with constant current sources greatly alleviates this problem, as constant current sources do not burn up any significant signal current, thus allowing the output tubes to send significantly more signal current to the headphones. I published an article on this in AudioXpress magazine July 2017 which discusses this in some detail. One thing that was left out of the article but is highly recommended is the addition of 5 megohm bias resistors between the last bias supply capacitor and the output socket. These can be interposed where the bias supply wires go from the circuit board to the output socket. For further discussion of the sonic results of this mod, check out the posts between Muffinhead and myself from Jan and Feb 2018 in this thread.



Hi, thank you for the detailed reply. I find that '2' on the volume pot (Eight o clock) isn't quite loud enough for me it's about medium volume. I don't suppose you could go into more detail about the constant current sources you talk about (sorry I'm quite new to electronics, only really been following guides online and know how to use a soldering iron). Is it possible to list exactly what I would need to replace them with? Thank you again for the reply.

Edit:

After some more experimentation I think I might have found the issue, the earspeakers themselves, I bought a showroom pair of L-300 whilst my amp was being repaired so I wasn't able to test them for a while and having just testing the amp with my lambda signatures which sound fine past eight o clock on the volume I am going to ask for a replacement pair of new L-300's and report back.


----------



## JimL11

EssentialEDM said:


> Hi, thank you for the detailed reply. I find that '2' on the volume pot (Eight o clock) isn't quite loud enough for me it's about medium volume. I don't suppose you could go into more detail about the constant current sources you talk about (sorry I'm quite new to electronics, only really been following guides online and know how to use a soldering iron). Is it possible to list exactly what I would need to replace them with? Thank you again for the reply.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> After some more experimentation I think I might have found the issue, the earspeakers themselves, I bought a showroom pair of L-300 whilst my amp was being repaired so I wasn't able to test them for a while and having just testing the amp with my lambda signatures which sound fine past eight o clock on the volume I am going to ask for a replacement pair of new L-300's and report back.



OK, I thought you were talking about 2 o'clock on the volume pot rather than '2' (8 o'clock) which is really quite low. Does sound like your headphones are the problem. However, if that turns out not to be the case, and you are still interested in the mod, you need to get the article by ordering the July 2017 back issue from the AudioXpress website.


----------



## tumpux

Wow, they put your article on the cover of the magazine..


----------



## JimL11 (Jun 30, 2019)

tumpux said:


> Wow, they put your article on the cover of the magazine..



Not really that big a deal. They frequently put construction articles on the cover. The magazine started as The Audio Amateur, and was devoted to DIY articles.


----------



## Torac

JimL11 said:


> OK, I thought you were talking about 2 o'clock on the volume pot rather than '2' (8 o'clock) which is really quite low. Does sound like your headphones are the problem. However, if that turns out not to be the case, and you are still interested in the mod, you need to get the article by ordering the July 2017 back issue from the AudioXpress website.



Thanks again, I will be sure to check this out as I'm sure I will get bored one day and want to do another mod


----------



## n3rdling

Hello all my stat buddies!  After a long haitus, I'm back.  Just wanted to drop in and say hi   Possibly exciting news around the corner


----------



## BreadMaster (Jul 4, 2019)

NO PLEASE.... OMERGERD! NO IT CAN"T BE !!! THIS "NEWS" ARGGHHG


----------



## BreadMaster (Jul 4, 2019)

@n3rdling  Spill the beans nerd, tell us this "exciting" news that you have for us. 


Otherwise stay on hiatus if it ain't going to be what we all want to hear.


----------



## Dan Lee

Man if you tell me there is a new stax model coming out.... Just when you think your at the end.

Any of you compared the 007 MKI and MKII?  If so what are your thoughts about the differences?  Thanks


----------



## BreadMaster (Jul 5, 2019)

Dan Lee said:


> Man if you tell me there is a new stax model coming out.... Just when you think your at the end.
> 
> Any of you compared the 007 MKI and MKII?  If so what are your thoughts about the differences?  Thanks


LOOOOOL , hes not saying anything at all! The mafia must ha snatched him off his porch the next morning..


----------



## BreadMaster

Dan Lee said:


> Man if you tell me there is a new stax model coming out.... Just when you think your at the end.
> 
> Any of you compared the 007 MKI and MKII?  If so what are your thoughts about the differences?  Thanks


God i hope this new stax omega isn't pric over 6K....


----------



## Dan Lee

I am going to actively avoid that information... at least for a couple years.  I am pretty damn happy with my current set up.  

My review of 5 of the top stat cans will be comin soon for those interested.  I do wish I coulda got my hands on an MKI but oh well.


----------



## arielext

Dan Lee said:


> I am going to actively avoid that information... at least for a couple years.  I am pretty damn happy with my current set up.
> 
> My review of 5 of the top stat cans will be comin soon for those interested.  I do wish I coulda got my hands on an MKI but oh well.


Started reading this thread at page ~ 500 and followed your journey, can't wait to read what you made of it


----------



## Torac (Jul 6, 2019)

Me again, still having issues with my srm-T1. Definitely not an issue with the l300 as I have now checked that it works perfectly fine with my srd-6. The right side of the amp is fine but the left just makes a continuous clicking sound that stays the same volume (maybe a relay) . Checked the bias again, the right side is still as close to 0v DC as I can get however the left dc offset is all over the place, it keeps jumping between 30ish and 140ish and no amount of turning the balance pot seems to change it.

Side note: Measuring between the positive left or right and gnd doesn't appear to measure as anything (0v DC) and doesn't change when adjusting the second pot.

Any ideas? Any help would be appreciated.

Edit: This amplifier is behaving very strangely, now it's jumping between -400 and 400 and nothing in between, and the clicking only happens occasionally, but there is no audio.

Edit edit: now the measurements for the left channel are fine but there is no audio coming through at all, I'm completely lost...


----------



## arielext

my gosh, I have used the 353x with the RCA inputs since I got it but that was a mistake.
The XLR inputs make the sound open up quite a bit. Greater soundstage both in depth and width and let's not forget the (sub)bass.
Ditched the loki mini again: XLR is the only way to go with the 353x if your DAC has balanced outputs.


----------



## arielext

353x XLR vs KGSS(HV) or KGST, knowing I'm not going above '2' (= 9 'o clock).
from a consumer point of view: are either KG amps worth it? I'm pairing the amp with the sr-007mk2(.9) headphones with which I am very impressed. Based on reviews I think I prefer the 007 over the 009. I like laid-back, dark but detailed and never fatiguing. I am really wondering if a 2k euro amp will change enough, except the hype it brings. Some claim a 323/353 is a kgss or as near as possible. the 323 doesn't sport the XLR inputs and I can confirm those change the sound signature quite a lot.


----------



## Dan Lee

@EssentialEDM not sure how much you paid for that amp or what its reputation is in the community as far as stat amps go, but I would suggest that perhaps your best method of action would be to simply replace it.  If however it has some sentimental value or is hailed as an outstanding act I imagine there are a great deal of individuals in these forums that would be willing to fix it for you for a small fee.  There are a lot of fantastic builders on this forum who would be more then happy to help ya out.

@arielext I really appreciate you following my journey my friend.  I will be posting a detailed review of my findings between 5 of the better stat cans on the market.  It has been rather overwhelming fun and in a few cases just plain infuriatingly difficult haha.  I will also include a brief review of the Denafrips Terminator.

As far as your question about amps go I too asked a hell of a lot of questions about amps on this forum and others and ultimately decided on the KGSSHV Carbon and think it to be one of the best decisions I have made in audio so far.  It made my previous amp, which at the time was the best I had heard, sound boring and I simply couldn't listen to it anymore and sold it.  Thats my 2 cents anyway, and you can also find a number of builders here that can build that amp for you as well.


----------



## JimL11 (Jul 6, 2019)

EssentialEDM said:


> Me again, still having issues with my srm-T1. Definitely not an issue with the l300 as I have now checked that it works perfectly fine with my srd-6. The right side of the amp is fine but the left just makes a continuous clicking sound that stays the same volume (maybe a relay) . Checked the bias again, the right side is still as close to 0v DC as I can get however the left dc offset is all over the place, it keeps jumping between 30ish and 140ish and no amount of turning the balance pot seems to change it.
> 
> Side note: Measuring between the positive left or right and gnd doesn't appear to measure as anything (0v DC) and doesn't change when adjusting the second pot.
> 
> ...



If the right channel is still working, I would try switching the output tubes and see if the problem changes channels. If so, the problem is a bad output tube which needs to be replaced. Alternatively, if you have a spare output tube (6CG7/6FQ7), just replace the left output channel tube and see if that fixes the problem - you will have to adjust the offset and balance when you change the tube.


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 7, 2019)

The ultimate Full-scale Desktop with Electro stat system (which is superior technology IMO), and yet transportable.  Yes, I can not bring my Stax 009/009S to go with me, and I absolutely don’t want to.  That would be DMP-Z1 and HD800S


----------



## astrostar59

arielext said:


> 353x XLR vs KGSS(HV) or KGST, knowing I'm not going above '2' (= 9 'o clock).
> from a consumer point of view: are either KG amps worth it? I'm pairing the amp with the sr-007mk2(.9) headphones with which I am very impressed. Based on reviews I think I prefer the 007 over the 009. I like laid-back, dark but detailed and never fatiguing. I am really wondering if a 2k euro amp will change enough, except the hype it brings. Some claim a 323/353 is a kgss or as near as possible. the 323 doesn't sport the XLR inputs and I can confirm those change the sound signature quite a lot.



I am not a Stax user now, but I had the 323 and the 717, the latter is better than the 353 IMO, more powerful for one. But the jump to any of the KG amps is big. I would strongly recommend doing that upgrade.


----------



## Whitigir

astrostar59 said:


> I am not a Stax user now, but I had the 323 and the 717, the latter is better than the 353 IMO, more powerful for one. But the jump to any of the KG amps is big. I would strongly recommend doing that upgrade.


As big as Brexit jump ? Lol


----------



## ahmedie

arielext said:


> my gosh, I have used the 353x with the RCA inputs since I got it but that was a mistake.
> The XLR inputs make the sound open up quite a bit. Greater soundstage both in depth and width and let's not forget the (sub)bass.
> Ditched the loki mini again: XLR is the only way to go with the 353x if your DAC has balanced outputs.


I think having buying 2 loki can do the trick to use it with xlr


----------



## ahmedie

Dan Lee said:


> So my electrostatic journey has moved along at a relatively insane pace.  I started with an iESL, iCAN, iDSD and a pair of SR-L700's.  Now I am running the KGSSHV Carbon and have a Denafrips Terminator on the way.  I have the Stax SR-009, SR-009S, Hifiman Shangri-La Jr, and MrSpeakers Voce. I should have the Terminator, 009S, and Voce all within the next week or so.  I am trying to decide, hopefully with some assistance from some of you fine folks, if I should go ahead and pick up the 007's too.  I think it will be rather interesting to be able to try them all out on the same system back to back.  I originally hadnt intended on having them all at the same time, but somehow it has worked out this way and Im gonna hold off on selling anything till Ive had a chance to hear it all together.
> 
> Just curious if you guys think the 007 offers enough of a difference to warrant its inclusion in this lineup.
> 
> Thanks


Get the 007 and keep listening for every headphone for at least 6 months, then you know what you like. it takes times to find your preferences and new preferences grow with higher gear as well, wish you good luck !


----------



## musicman59

Dan Lee said:


> Man if you tell me there is a new stax model coming out.... Just when you think your at the end.
> 
> Any of you compared the 007 MKI and MKII?  If so what are your thoughts about the differences?  Thanks


I have been a SR-009 owner for quite some time now. i was wanting something of different flavor so I got a SR-007 MkI and MkII as loaners. To my taste the MkI was too dark sounding. The MkII was more in between the MkI and 009 so I bought the MkII.


----------



## n3rdling

Does anybody know when the new L700/500 will be available for purchase?  What about the new detachable cable?


----------



## Jones Bob

https://wooaudio.com/headphones/l700mk2


----------



## tabness (Jul 11, 2019)

Is the Stax Omega (original) harder to drive than the 009/009S?

I just started listening to the 009S a couple of days ago (had the headphone since late last year but amp got delayed and then I got really busy so only got to start listening now) using a T1S which does the job fine for my listening levels (probably lower than many here 70ish db) and music (not much dynamic range) though I do have to crank it up between 5 and 8 (source is line out from a Discman 555/Macbook Pro).

I'll probably sell it soon enough as I still prefer my Sony CD3000 (nicer coloration midrange and less bass detail isn't a problem for me) but man is the 009S a fine transducer! I get when others talk about electrostat speed even compared to some good dynamic headphones (memories of the Utopia and SA500 and quickly switching back and forth with the CD3000) and the bass impact of it was better than I expected (can't compare to dynamics that focus on that but I don't really like too much bass impact) while the bass detail is amazing as it goes low without any frequency roll off.

I had the Utopia previously (unfortunately though I had both headphones together for some time I never got to directly compare them) but just from memory the 009S sounds like a little better Utopia which was a great neutral phone. I didn't have too much regret selling off the Utopia a few months back (besides losing money on it since it was basically new) because the CD3000 midrange just made the Utopia sound too boring and neutral despite its better bass detail (not impact) but it seems like I'll have a little more regret if I do decide to sell off the 009S.

The T1S has enough slew rate and voltage swing to drive the 009S for my needs but I just hope that's also true for the original Omega if I'm ever fortunate enough to get one. At worst I'll need to get someone to do the JimL mod to get some more power out of it but I'd like to keep the T1S. I'm not at all interested in going third party for the amp. I'm sure they're great and all but I want to stick to Stax brand (only amp I'd want over the T1S would be an original SRM-T2 but don't want a DIY T2 at all).


----------



## Sound Eq

Trance_Gott said:


> Battle of the Closed Back Giants:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


how much you got the 4070 for


----------



## Sound Eq (Jul 12, 2019)

BenF said:


> No, it can barely drive 009



i never heard the carbon, but i use 007tii with my 007mk2 and i adore it above everything i own, beside a not that well known estat from another company that i will share info bout soon, which will  be surprising to some , no its not the kaldas one its another company which deserves its own attention and I will be glad to share soon. I own also L300 LE and Jade2 and 407 and 307 and 007tii is amazing with these as well.

i barely am using the 007tii at 50% on volume with my 007mk2, and its as loud and dynamic as when i listen to all my other plannar headphones and amps, and if you look at my profile I own or owned alot of totl headphones

It might be true I am missing alot not using a carbon, BHSE, but the 007tii at least to me sounds great.

What is keeping me from buying a carbon is that some report it sounds cold and not musical, so with 007tii I adore how it makes all my estat sound


----------



## tumpux (Jul 13, 2019)

Ugh, sorry if it came across as an insensitive remarks.
Carry on gentlemen..


----------



## forestitalia

I tried but can't find any meaning in that comment...


----------



## Sound Eq (Jul 12, 2019)

tumpux said:


> I kinda envy you.
> Ignorance is truly a bliss.
> Everything sounds adorable until we taste the next best thing.



ignorance or what ever , I was telling that member 007mk2 sounds great with 007tii, if i compare it to my other totl planar headphones when I use hugo 2 dac and ifi ican pro.

not everyone needs to jump to a 6k usd amp to enjoy 007 mk2, but of course i am not saying it will sound as great as with using the carbon per what  other users report here

well to me using 007mk2 with 007tii tops any sound I get from using any planar setup period


----------



## AudioThief

Sound Eq said:


> ignorance or what ever , I was telling that member 007mk2 sounds great with 007tii, if i compare it to my other totl planar headphones when I use hugo 2 dac and ifi ican pro.
> 
> not everyone needs to jump to a 6k usd amp to enjoy 007 mk2, but of course i am not saying it will sound as great as with using the carbon per what  other users report here
> 
> well to me using 007mk2 with 007tii tops any sound I get from using any planar setup period



The 007tii can drive the SR-007. Do not listen to the people saying you need 6000$ third party amps to "get the most" out of them.


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## Sound Eq (Jul 13, 2019)

AudioThief said:


> The 007tii can drive the SR-007. Do not listen to the people saying you need 6000$ third party amps to "get the most" out of them.


that's exactly what i am telling the member who asked if it can drive 007mk2

also logically stax who makes these headphones, and go to shows for people to let them audition their headphones at the time when 007tii was the flagship amp and 007 mk2 was driven by that amp. It makes no sense if stax brings such an amp to shows and let people just ridicule their 007mk2 headphone if the amp can not drive the 007mk2

yes I am sure the carbon is better but it does in no means make the 007tii not able to drive the 007mk2. But so is the deal with all other planar headphones, so if I use the ifi ican pro does it mean I can not enjoy it, knowing that there is a way more powerful and expensive amp out there. of course not, yes you can go the upgrade road and no harm, but just do not slam good amps like 007tii just because the stax mafia says so


----------



## Whitigir

Don’t listen to people telling you, listen to the gears and decide for yourself


----------



## BreadMaster

Whitigir said:


> Don’t listen to people telling you, listen to the gears and decide for yourself


Schiit Modi 3 .... lol


----------



## raband

WeeWooWhackadoodle


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 13, 2019)

AudioThief said:


> The 007tii can drive the SR-007. Do not listen to the people saying you need 6000$ third party amps to "get the most" out of them.



turn up the volume knob. feel how the 007t is getting out of juice. The trebles will get dark, mids will sound like as if they are washed up, the bass won't slam strong enough.

as you increase voltage (volume) without proper current the voltage sags, it distorts and compresses.



> "So basically we have two factors here, the voltage swing determines the maximum volume of the amp and the current determines the maximum power.  There are some caveats though, almost all of the amps out there have more than enough voltage for deafening volume levels but the issue is current.  So the load of electrostatic transducers changes wildly with frequency and this is where the current comes in.  If there isn’t enough standing current, the voltage swing can’t reach the required level and it sags.  This only happens in a part of the spectrum so the bass and treble really (the midrange is the easy bit to drive) so loose, boomy bass and either bright or subdued treble.  With the load of a typical Stax set about 19mA is required for full voltage swing with no current limitations which is why the Carbon was set to 22mA for a bit extra headroom. So all of this has little to do with the sound of the amp except making sure it can properly drive the load.  All of my amps are neutral to the extent their tech allows, so the Octave is neutral unless you push it really hard and it just can’t keep up with the load.  The KGSSHV, KGSS Klassik and KGST are much better and you’d be hard pressed to cause them to run out of steam."



this is a quote from Mjolnir Audio(aka spritzer)

If you want to keep things low budget, best way is to get a speaker power amp and use a transformer. Transformers will give you 1100 peak to peak voltage swing and enough current to drive your headphones. The trebles will get rolled off a bit, but that's okay. With this way you can get much better sound quality than 2500$ 007t, just with 850$(700$ for Vidar & 150$ for SRD7/mkII)


----------



## AudioThief

Tugbars said:


> turn up the volume knob. feel how the 007t is getting out of juice. The trebles will get dark, mids will sound like as if they are washed up, the bass won't slam enough.
> 
> as you increase voltage (volume) without proper current the voltage sags, it distorts and compresses.
> 
> ...


Would you mine pointing me to measurements where we can see the difference between 007 through stax amps Vs carbon? Do they even exist?


----------



## CH23

Tugbars said:


> this is a quote from Mjolnir Audio(aka spritzer)
> 
> If you want to keep things low budget, best way is to get a speaker power amp and use a transformer. Transformers will give you 1100 peak to peak voltage swing and enough current to drive your headphones. The trebles will get rolled off a bit, but that's okay. With this way you can get much better sound quality than 2500$ 007t, just with 850$(700$ for Vidar & 150$ for SRD7/mkII)



I came here to say that I just upgraded from no stax (last month) to SRM323s+SR507, and now to an SRD7 mk II + Schiit Ragnarok. And it sounds absolutely brilliant.

I never bothered looking into Stax because I thought they were super expensive, but it's actually really affordable.

Also new for my SR001 mk II, the CES-A1. I love them. the new eartips are really comfortable and keep the earphones in well enough, that I can eat without them falling out, and I trust them enough to even bike with them.

The closed back cover makes the bass stand out slightly more, and gives a tad plasticky sound in the treble, but it's keeping sound out fantastically. I use a lot of public transit, which is always noisy, and this is not an issue with these.

Finally some stax portability!


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## Tugbars (Jul 13, 2019)

You don't have to get Carbon. You just have to feed headphones' stators with high current somehow, especially on SR007. When underpowered, the sound gets distorted as you turn the volume knob up. I used to have 007t with L300, i bought SR007 right after and my first impression of SR007 was a huge disappointment. I thought i paid 2100$ for nothing. I panicked. A gentleman in my town was kind enough to invite me to his house to let me audition his SR007 & Carbon and there i realized what SR007s are all about.

yesterday i listened to L300 again, I use the very demanding passage of  "Jannick Schou - Then Filling Your Pockets With Stones"(you can find on youtube, it's a very unconventional song also) where it starts from 2:15 to test detail retrieval & layering capabilities of headphones. When i tested with my L300, all i hear was distortion and blurred sounds.I wasn't able to pick sound layers in the song.  i switched to my 007's & Carbon and everything was clear, well layered. I was able to pick any sound layer and pick every detail.While i was using 007t, my 007's were performing worse than L300.


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## AudioThief

Tugbars said:


> You don't have to get Carbon. You just have to feed headphones' stators with high current somehow, especially on SR007. When underpowered, the sound gets distorted as you turn the volume knob up. I used to have 007t with L300, i bought SR007 right after and my first impression of SR007 was a huge disappointment. I thought i paid 2100$ for nothing. I panicked. A gentleman in my town was kind enough to invite me to his house to let me audition his SR007 & Carbon and there i realized what SR007s are all about.
> 
> yesterday i listened to L300 again, I use the very demanding passage of  "Jannick Schou - Then Filling Your Pockets With Stones"(you can find on youtube, it's a very unconventional song also) where it starts from 2:15 to test detail retrieval & layering capabilities of headphones. When i tested with my L300, all i hear was distortion and blurred sounds.I wasn't able to pick sound layers in the song.  i switched to my 007's & Carbon and everything was clear, well layered. I was able to pick any sound layer and pick every detail.While i was using 007t, my 007's were performing worse than L300.



But that is just an analogt, which the 007tii guy probably has heard before. I personally had the 727ii and it sounded perfectly fine. A carbon, bhse or kgss will not change the headphones. The 007 is driven by 007tii and 727ii. Unless I can get some hard proof about the fidelity increases from third party amps, Im just not buying it.


----------



## Tugbars

That's for sure. Hearing is believing : )


----------



## catscratch

I'd rather listen to the HD650 on a Gilmore Lite Mk2 than a 007 Mk2 on the 007tii. Considering the price, this should never be happening. The 007tii is a solid amp for Lambda style phones, but using one with the 007 Mk2 is a waste of money. You're leaving a ton of potential performance on the table.


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## Sound Eq (Jul 13, 2019)

AudioThief said:


> But that is just an analogt, which the 007tii guy probably has heard before. I personally had the 727ii and it sounded perfectly fine. A carbon, bhse or kgss will not change the headphones. The 007 is driven by 007tii and 727ii. Unless I can get some hard proof about the fidelity increases from third party amps, Im just not buying it.



if some who have the means to buy such expensive amps then be it and enjoy,


catscratch said:


> I'd rather listen to the HD650 on a Gilmore Lite Mk2 than a 007 Mk2 on the 007tii. Considering the price, this should never be happening. The 007tii is a solid amp for Lambda style phones, but using one with the 007 Mk2 is a waste of money. You're leaving a ton of potential performance on the table.



well that is not my take at all, and I own hifiman he1000se and many other totl and ifi ican pro, and I prefer the sound of my 007mk2 with 007tii way more, and the sound I am getting, using that combo is simply more engaging and has everything I look for in sound, and that sound I am getting made all my friends also come to that conclusion with just using my 007tii. There is alot of headroom and dynamics and details that surpass all other regular headphone setups

your comment is really not a fair one at all


----------



## AudioThief

Tugbars said:


> That's for sure. Hearing is believing : )



I think its important to consider biases before making recommendations. Spritzer is knowledgeable for sure, but he is also very biased considering he makes and sells amplifiers. Further, with the mystique surrounding these extremely expensive amplifiers and the 007 (mk1 even more), people will have a bunch of expectations about how this and that sounds, not considering the reality - that completely overkill amplifiers will not completely change the sound signature of the headphones.

I mean, I might be wrong, I haven't actually tested or measured it. But until we get measurements proving these "day and night" differences with these amps costing 4000$ more than the stax amps, I recommend people use their common sense 



catscratch said:


> I'd rather listen to the HD650 on a Gilmore Lite Mk2 than a 007 Mk2 on the 007tii. Considering the price, this should never be happening. The 007tii is a solid amp for Lambda style phones, but using one with the 007 Mk2 is a waste of money. You're leaving a ton of potential performance on the table.



Then nobody should ever get a 007 mk2, considering the insane prices needed to "unlock their potential". Its not as if the 007 is superior sounding to 009 or lambdas as a matter of fact.


----------



## Sound Eq

AudioThief said:


> I think its important to consider biases before making recommendations. Spritzer is knowledgeable for sure, but he is also very biased considering he makes and sells amplifiers. Further, with the mystique surrounding these extremely expensive amplifiers and the 007 (mk1 even more), people will have a bunch of expectations about how this and that sounds, not considering the reality - that completely overkill amplifiers will not completely change the sound signature of the headphones.
> 
> I mean, I might be wrong, I haven't actually tested or measured it. But until we get measurements proving these "day and night" differences with these amps costing 4000$ more than the stax amps, I recommend people use their common sense
> 
> ...



yes we are not saying that spritizer is anything but a great builder, and I am so eager to own one, but I am waiting for a great used one that is less than half of the retail price to pop up here on the forums, as I would never pay 6k usd on such an amp or any amp . Prices are already getting roof top crazy around here


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## Tugbars (Jul 13, 2019)

> Then nobody should ever get a 007 mk2, considering the insane prices needed to "unlock their potential". Its not as if the 007 is superior sounding to 009 or lambdas as a matter of fact.



yeah SR007 is inefficient and expensive to drive. They sound too dark when underpowered. It's the worst pick out of STAX headphones if the budget is limited. Buying L700 & 353X is a better idea if the budget is limited. These are my personal opinions of course


----------



## AudioThief

Tugbars said:


> yeah SR007 is inefficient and expensive to drive. They sound too dark when underpowered. It's the worst pick out of STAX headphones if the budget is limited. Buying L700 & 353X is a better idea if the budget is limited. These are my personal opinions of course



So you would expect the treble to measure closer to the treble of 009 or 009s (or the lambdas) through a expensive third party amplifier?


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## Tugbars

No, 009 is bright and 007 doesn't even come close. That's why some people like 007 more. My music taste is mostly demanding good detail & good layering from my headphones rather than good tonality, so i tend to like 009 more.

to compare, you can check Tyll's SR007 measurements(i remember he has used KGSSHV or KGSS) and the measurements done by other reviewers. They have barely anything in common. At most of the setups(badly amplified) there are huge dips at treble area.


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## buzzlulu (Jul 13, 2019)

Nothing


----------



## AudioThief

Tugbars said:


> No, 009 is bright and 007 doesn't even come close. That's why some people like 007 more. My music taste is mostly demanding good detail & good layering from my headphones rather than good tonality, so i tend to like 009 more.
> 
> to compare, you can check Tyll's SR007 measurements(i remember he has used KGSSHV or KGSS) and the measurements done by other reviewers. They have barely anything in common. At most of the setups(badly amplified) there are huge dips at treble area.



Yes, and the difference between the 007 (dark, subdued treble) and the 009 will still exist through the 727, 007tii or Carbon/BHSE. The third party amplifiers will not make the 007 into a Stax Omega or 009. I believe that you and many others feel as if that is the case, but that doesn't make it true. Consider this - how many different opinions on headphones, not to mention gear in general exists? They can't all be right. The reality is that when people expect this massive super overkill cost no object amplifier to sound like jesus second coming, then thats what its going to sound like - especially if they dropped six grand on the amplifier. But until I can see measurements, common sense tells me that it just isn't the case.



buzzlulu said:


> I'm sorry however this is so typical on Headfi.
> If you have never LISTENED to a Carbon then please do not pass judgement on something you have never heard.
> No one is doubting you are happy with your current 007mk2 and that it drives your 007's to your satisfaction.
> Do not however make comparisons between your setup and one you have NEVER HEARD.  That is simply ridiculous.
> ...



You know whats even more typical of head fi? A few "old timers" convincing everyone else that their gear just ain't up to snuff. I wonder how many 007 owners have spent a fortune on BHSE/Carbon, when what they actually needed was a 009 or a lambda. What is unfortunate is that these biases spread like a virus - one guy tells the next guy that if you want the 007 to sound good, you must have a overkill third party amp. That guy swears up and down that it made the 007 into a 009 with zero fatigue and the soundstage of a real concert hall - never considering if it even makes sense that an amplifier even does that. I understand that Spritzer can rationalize it, and I won't even say that its 100% guaranteed wrong what you are saying. But where is the proof about this incredible combo? Why can't someone just put the issue to rest, teach Stax how its done and prove how superior the 007 sounds through the Carbon or BHSE? 

Your analogy and your personal experience doesn't extend past you, just as mine doesn't extend past me.


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## tabness (Sep 14, 2019)

As far as my (very simple) understanding goes the two most important factors in driving an electrostatic headphone are voltage swing and current slew rate.

This is a very helpful thread on the voltage ratings of different amps

Combine that with listening volume and the dynamic range of the material you are listening to and you should be able to understand the amping needs for your headphone.

It certainly seems like the 007t/7X7 amps are suitable for listening to the 007 headphones by these metrics unless you're listening pretty loud (which would likely be dangerous anyway for any long periods of time).

I'm far from an audio objectivist and definitely ain't with the whole scientific viewing of the world mindset (this topic was one of the only intellectual things I was interested in in college lol) but I also really don't like the high falutin subjectivism and dismissal displayed on this thread that only some amps will properly drive the 007/009 and other experiences are completely invalid (without any information to back it up of course). The snobbery and mockery of some on this thread is too similar to the snobbery and mockery on the sound science forum which is a shame because there is good information in both places but you you have to go through a lot of crap to find it.

I'm pretty sure that my T1S drives my 009S more than satisfactorily for my listening needs. I actually don't think a T1S would be that suitable for an 007 for me if I wanted to listen loud for a bit. My experience with auditioning speaker amps and dynamic headphone amps was clearly that more expensive/powerful amps don't do much if at all in terms of what I'm hearing _once the transducer can be sufficiently driven_ (this is all sighted testing and I think double blind testing is a pretty dumb way of judging audio components for me for various reasons) and while I concede electrostats are a bit different the analogy still works broadly for me.


----------



## buzzlulu (Jul 13, 2019)

No one should be convinced by anyone, any old timer etc.
They should be convinced by their EARS, and their DEMO.
If you haven't HEARD IT don't make statements about it as if you have.  It's really quite simple.
Otherwise it's just speculation and conjecture - in other words - worthless.

Also - MEASUREMENTS aren't everything.  You will find that out the more you listen.


----------



## tabness

The main issue I see with Stax (outside Japan) is that it is SO hard to demo them. Thus people come here for advice. The advice here is generally amp first (I got a ton of that advice myself when I was looking into Stax thankfully in a much nicer and helpful way than too often happens on this thread). Top of the line Stax headphones are already super expensive, and the amp prices just hurt. However, a minority of others (like me) would give the opposite advice: go headphone first just like I would go speaker first. It's cheaper and you might just be happy as well.

I feel too many people miss out on Stax because of the strong advice to either start with a Carbon/BHSE or don't bother which is incredibly cost prohibitive. I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford those, I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford a DIY T2, but I spent $600 bucks on a used T1S and am very happy with the 009S performance on that.

I've found it very helpful to look at impressions of a very old member on Head-Fi/Headwize (darth nut) who actually had a SRM-T2. He thought it was better with the 007 than the 007t for sure but not by that much and said that the basic nature of the headphone was not changed by the amps. The 007 was still a great 007 on an 007t and the T2 just added some refinement.


----------



## AudioThief

buzzlulu said:


> No one should be convinced by anyone, any old timer etc.
> They should be convinced by their EARS, and their DEMO.
> If you haven't HEARD IT don't make statements about it as if you have.  It's really quite simple.
> Otherwise it's just speculation and conjecture - in other words - worthless.
> ...



I'm not saying measurements are everything.. I am saying that measurements are something which to this specific scenario is VERY relevant. In fact, measurements is much more trustworthy than the testimonials people are giving, which fly right in the face of common sense. Demoing is much more flawed than measurements are. 

To whoever is reading this exchange, and seriously considering paying a fortune on an amplifier when Stax already makes perfectly good amps that drive their headphone, ask yourself if it actually makes sense that there would be A) A night and day difference between the TOTL Stax amps or the overkill third party amplifiers and B) If there perhaps are some biases going into peoples recommendation. 

There is a group of people who have used A LOT of money and A LOT of time to have a lot of "clout" on various boards. These people will insist that the only way to join their club of audio perfection is to get a very specific amplifier for a very specific headphone. Does this make sense? Are you willing to drop several grand on something that scientifically doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Could it be that these people are biased ? And want to exclude people from their little elite club?

We will obviously get nowhere going back and forth on this, but I just want to make that statement.


----------



## Tugbars

I think AudioThief was just sharing his doubts about the hype about after market amps. Many people share his feelings. I was just lucky that someone has invited me to his house and let me use his gear for a while. I end up buying Carbon too.


----------



## buzzlulu

Tugbars said:


> I think AudioThief was just sharing his doubts about the hype about after market amps. Many people share his feelings. I was just lucky that someone has invited me to his house and let me use his gear for a while. I end up buying Carbon too.



So I guess, to your ears, it was not hype.

You bought a Carbon - so I assume your demo was convincing enough for you to pull the trigger.


----------



## buzzlulu

tabness said:


> The main issue I see with Stax (outside Japan) is that it is SO hard to demo them. Thus people come here for advice. The advice here is generally amp first (I got a ton of that advice myself when I was looking into Stax thankfully in a much nicer and helpful way than too often happens on this thread). Top of the line Stax headphones are already super expensive, and the amp prices just hurt. However, a minority of others (like me) would give the opposite advice: go headphone first just like I would go speaker first. It's cheaper and you might just be happy as well.
> 
> I feel too many people miss out on Stax because of the strong advice to either start with a Carbon/BHSE or don't bother which is incredibly cost prohibitive. I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford those, I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford a DIY T2, but I spent $600 bucks on a used T1S and am very happy with the 009S performance on that.



I am fortunate enough that I can purchase most any setup I want.  I have been heavy into TOTL two channel for decades and dabble with headphones.  I agree with what you said about Stax appearing daunting however in reality it is possible to enter the "club" for a reasonable amount of money.

When I returned to HeadFi two years ago after a 14 year absence I immediately went for what was acknowledged as the headphone King at the time (2 years ago) and bought the Utopia for $4k.

I dipped my toes into the Stax water a little over a year ago with the L300LE and 353XBK amplifier.  Total spend $1600 for headphone and amplifier i.e. less than HALF the cost of the Utopia (headphone alone not amp!).
I feel confident saying that the 300LE/353 combo can EASILY stand toe to toe with the Utopia - at a fraction of the cost.

So yes - one does not need to spend mega dollars for a Stax setup.  However - let's not denigrate the TOTL third party amps such as the Carbon and BHSE.  They ARE better - at least as per my demo.
Bye the way - the Carbon costs LESS than the current TOTL Stax amplifier today (T8000)


----------



## tumpux

Ah.. the club.


----------



## Windseeker (Jul 14, 2019)

I'd like to throw in my two cents on amp stuff, from a different perspective.

I've been a STAX enthusiast for nearly three decades, and for at least two-thirds of the time, I've primarily been in the tube amp camp.  So I can relate a lot to what others are posting (and I continue to have tons of respect for TOTL third party stuff).

However, with my current DAC set-up (Chord M-Scaler + Chord DAVE), my preference has shifted fundamentally toward appreciating more transparency.  As a result, lately I've found myself satisfied the most when using DAVE as a DAC/Pre-amp combo and simply using 727 II as an energizer (bypassing/disabling its volume function altogether) for my 009/007. To me, somehow music seem to sound more intimate and natural with this set-up, even beating my Focal Utopia / Senn HD 800S straight out from DAVE most of the time, which I found quite amusing (given that directly driving HPs from DAVE has a clear advantage of having less electronic circuits in between).

Of course, I realize this is purely a matter of preferring certain iteration of sound characteristics over the other. Just wanted to chime in as an example of other options out there.


----------



## arnaud

buzzlulu said:


> No one should be convinced by anyone, any old timer etc.
> They should be convinced by their EARS, and their DEMO.
> If you haven't HEARD IT don't make statements about it as if you have.  It's really quite simple.
> *Otherwise it's just speculation and conjecture - in other words - worthless*.
> ...



This summarizes it pretty  well.



AudioThief said:


> To whoever is reading this exchange, and seriously considering paying a fortune on an amplifier when Stax already makes perfectly good amps that drive their headphone, ask yourself if it actually makes sense that there would be A) A night and day difference between the TOTL Stax amps or the overkill third party amplifiers and B) If there perhaps are some biases going into peoples recommendation.
> 
> There is a group of people who have used A LOT of money and A LOT of time to have a lot of "clout" on various boards. These people will insist that the only way to join their club of audio perfection is to get a very specific amplifier for a very specific headphone. Does this make sense? Are you willing to drop several grand on something that scientifically doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Could it be that these people are biased ? And want to exclude people from their little elite club?
> 
> We will obviously get nowhere going back and forth on this, but I just want to make that statement.



While I appreciate the questioning and not taking things for granted, your comment about people who bought 3rd party amps being just a band of elitist reads more like one’s frustration about financial accessibility of the items rather than some grounded feedback. 

I have no coin in the game since I’ve actually sold off my stat gear and actually tremendously enjoying my return back to “technically inferior” electro-dynamic systems. But, I can certainly attest that there is a world beyond Stax brand amps and Stax are of course well aware of this.

There’s a reason why so much effort has been put on lambda series these past years or even comparatively easier to drive 009/S headphones.


----------



## walakalulu

If I were starting again on the headphone bandwagon I’d probably give electrostatics a miss. Too much a niche market with a distinct lack of amps to drive them compared with the plethora of high end models now available for dynamic and planar headphones, the best of which offer an alternative, but not necessarily better, sound signature.


----------



## tumpux

.. but how about the club?


----------



## AudioThief

arnaud said:


> This summarizes it pretty  well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I never said they were "just a band og elitists" - that is a complete strawman. What I did say is that there is a small club of people who have spent a fortune, and people should consider their bias. When there is no logical reason to believe that the 007 suddently changes character through third party amps, and knowing just how much psychology and bias plays into audio, anyone would be wise to consider these things.

I would never waste my money on a overkill amp just because so and so insisted that its a night and day difference because everything I know tells me that cannot be. I can afford a third party amp, but wasting money just isnt my thing.


----------



## buzzlulu

Windseeker said:


> I'd like to throw in my two cents on amp stuff, from a different perspective.
> 
> I've been a STAX enthusiast for nearly three decades, and for at least two-thirds of the time, I've primarily been in the tube amp camp.  So I can relate a lot to what others are posting (and I continue to have tons of respect for TOTL third party stuff).
> 
> ...




Time to change direction in this thread.

Windseeker - Nice post and  excellent read
A question for you and others - I currently own a 300LE and 009S and a 353XBK and Birgir Carbon.  I had the opportunity to listen to the BHSE (briefly) at two CanJams however made the decision to go solid state for reasons of warm up, being able to forget turning it off etc.  My two channel has always been solid state as well.

If I am interested in playing around and getting a taste of the "tube" sound would a 007 or 727 give me that - or would I just be spinning my wheels considering I already have the 353 (and Carbon)?  It would be just for fun and a dipping of my toes into the tube waters - so for now a BHSE etc. is not on the table.


----------



## arnaud

AudioThief said:


> I never said they were "just a band og elitists" - that is a complete strawman. What I did say is that there is a small club of people who have spent a fortune, and people should consider their bias. When there is no logical reason to believe that the 007 suddently changes character through third party amps, and knowing just how much psychology and bias plays into audio, anyone would be wise to consider these things.
> 
> I would never waste my money on a overkill amp just because so and so insisted that its a night and day difference because everything I know tells me that cannot be. I can afford a third party amp, but wasting money just isnt my thing.



Look, your argument about measurable difference *is* a stawman argument. Me saying that you can’t (either for financial or psychological reasons) own a 3rd party stat amp is not an argument, it’s just how your reasoning reads.

My 2 cents of advice to you: leave aside your pre-conceptions and start to trust your ears. I spend many hours every day of the week doing sound and vibration simulations and comparing predictions with tests. I’ve been into this field for over 2 decades and that does not turn me into a measurement dictator. On the contrary, I am at peace with the belief that what matters the most in audio is pretty much not measurable today. What we measure are very gross / coarse characteristics of headphones mainly related to tonality and transient performance but what makes a headphone experience special to people is often hard to put down in words, let alone to highlight with whatever approximate measurement data is out there.

Having said all that, please ignore my advice and leave happily in your belief. It’s the truth to you and that’s all the matters. But also please refrain from talking about gear you’ve never even sampled, that’s part of the head-fi chart last I recall.

cheers,
arnaud


----------



## AudioThief

arnaud said:


> Look, your argument about measurable difference *is* a stawman argument. Me saying that you can’t (either for financial or psychological reasons) own a 3rd party stat amp is not an argument, it’s just how your reasoning reads.
> 
> My 2 cents of advice to you: leave aside your pre-conceptions and start to trust your ears. I spend many hours every day of the week doing sound and vibration simulations and comparing predictions with tests. I’ve been into this field for over 2 decades and that does not turn me into a measurement dictator. On the contrary, I am at peace with the belief that what matters the most in audio is pretty much not measurable today. What we measure are very gross / coarse characteristics of headphones mainly related to tonality and transient performance but what makes a headphone experience special to people is often hard to put down in words, let alone to highlight with whatever approximate measurement data is out there.
> 
> ...



I am free to trust my ears, and you are free to trust yours. I indeed do trust my ears, which is why I own the gear I own now, and not other gear, having auditioned a lot of gear. I am simply trying to steer people to a more logical conclusion than to spend a literal fortune on a third party amplifier that I have no reason to believe alters the frequency of a headphone - when there are already capable amplifiers made by the same company at 1/3 of the price (and available even cheaper used). 

Obviously there is little to no point in us arguing back and forth - as buzzlulu said, its time the thread took another turn. But I am not commenting on the sound of the Carbon, I've never heard it. But I am free to assert that there is no reason to believe it drastically alters the response or sound of the SR-007, as I am also free to assert that it doesn't make a pair of Stax 507s into a 009S (although I havent heard the 507s through the Carbon!)


----------



## arnaud

AudioThief said:


> (although I havent heard the 507s through the Carbon!)



Well, there you go, you should have erased the comments above that one as you confirmed they are baseless. enough said...


----------



## buzzlulu

If you have NEVER heard it - don't ASSERT anything about it.
That goes for Stax...  and any other headphone or amplifier


----------



## AudioThief

arnaud said:


> Well, there you go, you should have erased the comments above that one as you confirmed they are baseless. enough said...



So you are open to the possibility of the 507 magically sounding like the 009S if you just plug it to the carbon? Or the DIY T2?


----------



## georgep

Actually, there isn’t really anything you can do to make the 507 sound really good. Unfortunately, it was one of their weakest. 207 puts it to shame.


----------



## Tugbars

buzzlulu said:


> Time to change direction in this thread.
> 
> Windseeker - Nice post and  excellent read
> A question for you and others - I currently own a 300LE and 009S and a 353XBK and Birgir Carbon.  I had the opportunity to listen to the BHSE (briefly) at two CanJams however made the decision to go solid state for reasons of warm up, being able to forget turning it off etc.  My two channel has always been solid state as well.
> ...



What differences in sound do you get when you switch back and forth between 353X and Carbon?


----------



## AudioThief

georgep said:


> Actually, there isn’t really anything you can do to make the 507 sound really good. Unfortunately, it was one of their weakest. 207 puts it to shame.



Which is kind of my point - it doesn't make sense that you could drastically alter the 507 sound signature, nor does it make sense that the 007 goes from being the dark headphones they are (with excellent bass) through say the 727II, to becoming some "perfect" headphone with no errors - apparantly, the 007s have "flabby bass" through stax amps, which just isn't true. 

My point is that what these people are saying doesn't make sense, and its strange how much time and money people use on these third party amps and discussing how magical they are, but producing some measurements just never happen. I wonder why. Whoever is close to being convinced that if they just spend 6000 $ more, they can achieve audio nirvana - take a step back and think logically. Or you can always trust the stax mafia and take the leap of faith. Its your money


----------



## tumpux

I find it funny that you’re so fixated on the idea that people are willing to spend some amount of printed papers to transform a toy into an agent of audio nirvana. 

Dude, it’s all about the club..


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 14, 2019)

AudioThief said:


> Which is kind of my point - it doesn't make sense that you could drastically alter the 507 sound signature, nor does it make sense that the 007 goes from being the dark headphones they are (with excellent bass) through say the 727II, to becoming some "perfect" headphone with no errors - apparantly, the 007s have "flabby bass" through stax amps, which just isn't true.
> 
> My point is that what these people are saying doesn't make sense, and its strange how much time and money people use on these third party amps and discussing how magical they are, but producing some measurements just never happen. I wonder why. Whoever is close to being convinced that if they just spend 6000 $ more, they can achieve audio nirvana - take a step back and think logically. Or you can always trust the stax mafia and take the leap of faith. Its your money



Oh you still keep insisting.

some headphones require more power than others.for example, let's take a look at Susvara. Susvara has sensitivity of 83dBand  people drive those headphones with speaker amps.. It's in their design to be power hungry and without enough power they sound really bad. Some headphones just do get to their potential with really powerful amps.(unlike lambdas) 007 design comes from the idea of making Omega 1 cheaper for a better competition in the market. And remember, Omega was made to be paired with strongest STAX amp ever made.

what you do is basically calling everyone member of an elitist club because they think SR007 requires huge amps to work with.There are 2 problems,

First, you haven't tried Carbon with 007.

second, you and I do not know completely what makes electrostatic headphones harder to drive. You are just speculating. You just don't believe that SR007s are hard to drive and amps with more power makes huge difference. You think your experiences with L300 or 507 applies to all headphones. Things aren't that simple.

you keep pushing your own agenda without basis of having experience with Carbon and knowledge about the topology of electrostatic amplifiers & design of electrostatic headphones. If you have questions you can message to after market amplifier makers(KG & Birgir), they are known to be very honest people, that's at least what i'm sure about. They can clear your doubts with more scientific data. The best is of course always find Carbon & 007 somewhere and see the difference with your own ears.

L700 & 353X is the best price/performance system of what STAX offers nowadays. You can get really good sound quality for much cheaper that way.


----------



## AudioThief (Jul 14, 2019)

Tugbars said:


> Oh you still keep insisting.
> 
> some headphones require more power than others.for example, let's take a look at Susvara. Susvara has sensitivity of 83dBand  people drive those headphones with speaker amps.. It's in their design to be power hungry and without enough power they sound really bad. 007 design comes from the idea of making Omega 1 cheaper for a better competition in the market. And remember, Omega was made to be paired with strongest STAX amp ever made.
> 
> ...



I have owned the SR-007 mk1 for years and tried it with different amps. I know they are hard to drive. But I also know that the TOTL stax amps such as the 007tii and 727ii have enough juice to drive them. KG & Birgir can make (and sell) the perfect amplifier for the SR-007. Doesn't mean that there is a night and day difference in sound (if any). Individual testimonials are essentially worthless.

Not that dynamic amps and estat amps are the same, but as an example:

Many very experienced and knowledegable people on the internet will insist that if you just get the HD650 a high end OTL tube amp, they will sound INCREDIBLE. Well, I did try that, a Cary 300b SEI. And it was still the HD650. I could barely tell that amp apart from my solid state amp - there was sure as hell no night and day difference. And thats tube vs SS. The 007tii and the 727ii has enough juice for the 007 (and any other Stax headphone). You do not need more, and if you do get more, it will not significantly alter the sound.

Fact is, individual testimonials are rife with errors. And what is sad is that the people insisting on the need for a Carbon or a BHSE will never acknowledge their own bias, will never actually try to measure or somehow prove that the difference is there - they will just happily pay thousands of dollars without finding out if there actually is a difference in sound, or if its in their head - not realizing just how powerful bias and placebo is. Thats a very expensive mistake to make.

edit: 

And if KG and Birgir are so sure about the vast sonic improvement, why can't they just measure the headphones and prove it? I think the general gist of it is that the 007 gets perfect treble response and perfect bass, right? So just plug a 007 into a 727/717/007, measure it, then plug it into a Carbon and show the improvements - or at least the clear difference in FR. That would make much more sense, but they aren't gonna do that, are they? Because its much better for them if their followers just keep harping on about how insane it is, so they can make more sales. Because if they did measure it, I am pretty sure we would not see what all the buyers are hearing..


----------



## tumpux

Dude, he gave away his design to the diy community..


----------



## tumpux

... and it’s pathetic that you still believe that people pay thousands of dollar for the sound improvement. 

It’s all about the club.


----------



## AudioThief

tumpux said:


> Dude, he gave away his design to the diy community..



Yes, but he is still selling it, and it is still his design. Not exactly unbiased



tumpux said:


> ... and it’s pathetic that you still believe that people pay thousands of dollar for the sound improvement.
> 
> It’s all about the club.



Its funny how personal you are taking this.


----------



## tumpux

Nah.. I’m just sharpening my trolling skill.


----------



## VandyMan

AudioThief said:


> Individual testimonials are essentially worthless.



I can't help but wonder what you get out of Head-Fi, if you believe that. Is spending a summer weekend trolling fellow headphone enthusiasts really that much fun for you?

I own a BHSE. I used to own a STAX 727ii. So I've heard the 727 and BHSE side by side. I've also heard the BHSE vs the Carbon side by side, in my home, with my 009s. They sound different. The Carbon and BHSE are significantly better (not magical, not night and day) than the 727. If you don't want to believe me, that is just fine.


----------



## AudioThief

VandyMan said:


> I can't help but wonder what you get out of Head-Fi, if you believe that. Is spending a summer weekend trolling fellow headphone enthusiasts really that much fun for you?
> 
> I own a BHSE. I used to own a STAX 727ii. So I've heard the 727 and BHSE side by side. I've also heard the BHSE vs the Carbon side by side, in my home, with my 009s. They sound different. The Carbon and BHSE are significantly better (not magical, not night and day) than the 727. If you don't want to believe me, that is just fine.




How am I trolling? I'm not saying testimonials are useless, period. I've spent hours and hours reading about headphones, both when looking to purchase a specific one, or to learn about new releases etc. And what I've learned is that any individual testimonial is essentially worthless because they go in all directions. After reading very many subjective opinions on boards or reviews, I can start getting a general image about what properties are likely to be true about a pair of headphones - HD800 are by most considered "bright" but accurate and great for classical - but not everyone agrees with that. Then there are properties that people just can't seem to agree on. 

The problem with the super expensive and thus exclusive third party amplifiers is that the impressions are so extremely likely to be inflicted by bias - and there are so few people out there giving impressions. On top of that, we have several boards with a cultish reverence for these amplifiers, that its not surprising at all that people feel as if its jesus' second coming once they hear these amplifiers. At the same time, no measurements proving these differences exist are out there. What should this tell someone wondering where to spend their money? That it is far more likely that this incredible difference in sound is in their heads than in the electrical signal somehow changing by the amp being overkill specced. 

I appreciate that you say you don't see it as night and day, by the way. I am much more inclined to trust someone making such a claim than the army of people who will tell you that the 007 isn't a worthwhile headphone unless you get carbon/bhse. 

Anyways, I am not here to disagree with you, buzzlulu, Tugbars or anyone else - enjoy your Carbon/BHSE and awesome headphones. But anyone reading should consider the reality that it is far more likely that bias plays a way bigger factor than any actual change in sound. 

I think the most shocking demo I ever had was with the Sennheiser HD 700 at a shop when I was a relative newbie - I will never get that demo out of my head. I had such high expectations for the Sennheisers, both because of the brand and the pricetag. The shop plugged it into their top amplifier and showed me some demo tracks in a dimly lit room in a luxurious chair. It was crazy. 

Now do I actually think the HD700 sounds that good? No. Its ok, don't get me wrong, but nothing compared to Stax in my opinion. But that demo is the single most impactful listening experience I can remember ever having, and thinking back to it reminds me just how much psychological bias plays into our perception of sound. And I think that until we see measurements proving at least the most extreme claims about this "night and day difference" (which you would expect if you spent 6000 $ on an amp), its just irresponsible to recommend people by those amps for the sound increase.


----------



## -HaVoC-Tzu-

The demo that had the most impact to me so far was a Chord Dave + Blue Hawaii + Mr. Speakers Voce.
That was fun hanging out with Bob Marley on-stage.


----------



## Windseeker (Jul 14, 2019)

buzzlulu said:


> If I am interested in playing around and getting a taste of the "tube" sound would a 007 or 727 give me that - or would I just be spinning my wheels considering I already have the 353 (and Carbon)?  It would be just for fun and a dipping of my toes into the tube waters - so for now a BHSE etc. is not on the table.



727 II is a solid state amp (yes, I've moved away from tubes),  so I guess you mean SRM-007t II. 

I do recommend auditioning it somewhere beforehand. Generally speaking, whether it's a path worth pursuing completely depends on your preference/value proposition.  For example, your inclination concerning transparency vs. tasteful colorization trade-off, and whether you don't mind warming-up / tube rolling aspect that comes with tube amps, etc.


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## kevin gilmore (Jul 14, 2019)

for dynamic amplifiers the same voltage swing at 1khz and 20khz is easy.

for electrostatic amplifiers a whole bunch harder.

600v power supplies require 18ma.
the koss esp950 is push pull and still can't come anywhere near close to this.
my cfaelectrostat will do this with enough heatsink.

500 v power supplies require 15ma of output current at 20khz into 120pf
A T2 can do this. A megatron can do this

450 v power supplies require 14ma of output current.
a carbon can easily do 18 to 20 ma
a kgsshv is limited to a max of about 9ma

400v power supplies require 12ma of output current
a BH will easily do this and more

350v power supplies requires 10.6ma of output current
Most stax amps (t1,717,727,007t...) are 350v power supplies and can only supply about 7ma

300v power supplies require 9ma of output current
some stax amps including the d50 are limited to about 6ma

200v power supplies (kse1500/kse1200) capacitive load 80pf (actual measured, no spec)
4ma needed, amplifier limited to +/-1ma and the thd is over 1% at 200vppss

175v power supplies D10 requires 5.25ma of output current
amplifier is limited to 6ma


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## JimL11

Honestly, when we're talking about differences in sound between amps, that argument has been going on for decades. Just Google "do all amps sound the same?" Are there measurable differences? Sure. Do they explain the differences in sound? Doubtful. Decades ago it was total harmonic distortion. Then it was tubes vs transistors. Then it was Transient Intermodulation Distortion (TIM). Etc., etc., etc.

And of course, everybody is measuring any subjective differences they hear with their own personal subjective scale. Does amp A sound 5% better than amp B? 10%? 50%?. And what criteria do you use? Detail? Tonality? Transparency? Drive? Dynamics? A few years ago I heard a demonstration of the effect of different power supplies on an amp. The person doing the demonstrating said it improved things by 30-40%. I thought I heard improvements on the order of 10%. And I wasn't convinced that the difference in sound was worth the increment in price. 

Point is, when you're talking about subjective differences and your money, the only judge of what is or is not worth it, is you. And that goes both ways. If person A thinks that the SRM007 sounds fine and everything more expensive is a waste of money, then that's fine - for person A. If person B thinks that a DIY T2 is the best and the SRM007 is far inferior, that's fine too - for person B. Your subjective experience is your subjective experience. But unless person A and person B plan to do a mind-meld ala Mr. Spock, there really is no point in them arguing about it. The difficulty comes in when persons A and B try to convince each other that their personal experience should be the same for the other person. This generally devolves into comments that person A is deaf or person B is delusional and wasting their money - because I'M RIGHT, AND YOU'RE WRONG, DAMMIT! At least, that is IMHO.



buzzlulu said:


> Time to change direction in this thread.
> 
> A question for you and others - I currently own a 300LE and 009S and a 353XBK and Birgir Carbon.  I had the opportunity to listen to the BHSE (briefly) at two CanJams however made the decision to go solid state for reasons of warm up, being able to forget turning it off etc.  My two channel has always been solid state as well.
> 
> If I am interested in playing around and getting a taste of the "tube" sound would a 007 or 727 give me that - or would I just be spinning my wheels considering I already have the 353 (and Carbon)?  It would be just for fun and a dipping of my toes into the tube waters - so for now a BHSE etc. is not on the table.



Well, the 727 is a solid state amp, so that won't give you that tube sound.

The SRM-T1 and SRM-006 are basically the same amp, the primary difference being age and possibly different transistors in some locations due to some transistors becoming obsolete. The circuit is pretty much identical. The SRM-007 also shares the same circuit except for the output, which doubles the number of output tubes, but only increases the output standing current by about 40%. 

IMHO the least expensive way to get a taste of tube sound is to get a used SRM-T1 and replace all the electrolytic caps or find someone who can do it for you - parts cost for the caps should be around $50, and any repair technician should be able to do the job. The stock T1 with just the electrolytic caps replaced actually should do fine with the 300LE and may do OK with the 009S (it was actually one of Stax's reference amps when the original Omega came out (the SR007 Mk I is also known as the Omega II). 

Some find the T1 to be a bit flabby in the bass and somewhat lacking in the highs with the SR007, although this is somewhat level dependent. My DIY mod, which replaces the output plate resistors with constant current loads largely ameliorates this, and more than doubles the effective power of the output tubes by eliminating the wastage of signal current in the plate resistors. In fact, the modded T1 actually has a higher voltage output capability than a stock SRM-007 despite using half the number of output tubes. Incidentally, of the 3-4 people who have heard my modded T1 compared to the SRM727 with global feedback mod, all of them preferred the modded T1.


----------



## BreadMaster

Stax SRM-252s -> Modi 3 -> Stax SR-L500
Atrox v2 - > Modi 3 - > LCD 2.2c


arnaud said:


> This summarizes it pretty  well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol good point. The guy just salty because he couldnt afford to hear what a fully driven 007 would sound like. Noob playing high-tier Stax game lol


Stax SRM-252s -> Modi 3 -> Stax SR-L500
Atrox v2 - > Modi 3 - > LCD 2.2c

RIIGGHT


----------



## AudioThief

BreadMaster said:


> Stax SRM-252s -> Modi 3 -> Stax SR-L500
> Atrox v2 - > Modi 3 - > LCD 2.2c
> 
> lol good point. The guy just salty because he couldnt afford to hear what a fully driven 007 would sound like. Noob playing high-tier Stax game lol
> ...



Jesus christ.. I'm not sure what you are getting at here? If you think this debate is about money, you are wrong. And even if I was a legit homeless man who had only ever heard a koss porta pro, the truth of my arguments wouldn't be presided by what gear I own. I know what a fully driven 007 sounds like because I've had a 007 with a 727ii for years. I prefered the lambda series, so I "downgraded". I see you like to laugh at my Modi 3 a lot - I've owned a gustard x20, too. The modi 3 sounds excellent - I highly recommend it


----------



## tabness

buzzlulu said:


> I am fortunate enough that I can purchase most any setup I want.  I have been heavy into TOTL two channel for decades and dabble with headphones.  I agree with what you said about Stax appearing daunting however in reality it is possible to enter the "club" for a reasonable amount of money.
> 
> When I returned to HeadFi two years ago after a 14 year absence I immediately went for what was acknowledged as the headphone King at the time (2 years ago) and bought the Utopia for $4k.
> 
> ...



Well I don't think there has been much denigrating of the third party amps going on. Speaking for myself I just said you should be able to drive 009/007 with Stax amps (more powerful ones on the 007 vs the 009) and still get the a pretty good sound out of that headphone. No doubt the third party amps provide more voltage swing and current as I posted the thread with the stats on that. But what's the benefit of that (besides the obvious driving the volume louder)? I've read less treble roll off (especially with the 007) and better bass. Regulated power supplies have the benefit of giving you better transients. None of these things seem worth it for me to pay the price increase and more importantly get away from the Stax brand (lot of psycho acoustic baggage there with me). We were also mostly discussing the cheaper amps as it is pretty well known the T8000 isn't a big step up in terms of voltage swing improvement compared to price. It is unfortunate though understandable that Stax doesn't have anything to replace what the T2 could provide or get close enough to it.

For me though aside from my own personal experiences telling me that differences are perceived to be much less of a big deal to me than to others (and I know for a fact that others are like me so I'm just really trying to advise and help them not so much those who really perceive the differences to be large) it is just the fact that I want to stick with the Stax brand. There are a bunch of electrostats out recently from different companies and DIYers. I'm sure they sound great but I really never have any inclination of listening to them cause I'm down with Stax. Same with the amps.

But I do want to also help move off this subject, and my regret now is that the 009S is not going to be my favorite headphone or the best I heard (the CD3000/R10 midrange is just more beautiful and I'll take that over the last bit of detail especially in bass and speed) so it will likely need to go just like the Utopia before it. Thus I take another hit of close to $1000 (and at least I got to listen to the Utopia for months and for a while it was my favorite before I heard the CD3000). However there are enough interesting things with electrostat sound that I want to keep one for use when I'm using the computer. But it seems ridiculous to have the 009S as a backup headphone. I'm starting to look into the Lambdas and there are people who actually prefer the Lambda sound to the 007/009 tier which is promising but which Lambda lol? The L700 seems less detailed than the L500 according to some impressions? I'd sacrifice midrange for neutrality so the details in the other frequencies are easier to hear since I already have the CD3000/R10. Also the Lambdas just look so dorky lol.


----------



## buzzlulu

JimL11 said:


> Well, the 727 is a solid state amp, so that won't give you that tube sound.
> 
> The SRM-T1 and SRM-006 are basically the same amp, the primary difference being age and possibly different transistors in some locations due to some transistors becoming obsolete. The circuit is pretty much identical. The SRM-007 also shares the same circuit except for the output, which doubles the number of output tubes, but only increases the output standing current by about 40%.
> 
> ...



Jim
As always thank you for the detailed reply.  My typo above - should have read 007 or new 007tii (not ss 727 as I already have a 353)
Then again there recently have been some second hand BHSE showing up every now and then


----------



## Currawong

AudioThief said:


> I know what a fully driven 007 sounds like because I've had a 007 with a 727ii for years.



I know what sex feels like because I... for years.


----------



## tumpux

kevin gilmore said:


> 350v power supplies requires 10.6ma of output current
> Most stax amps (t1,717,727,007t...) are 350v power supplies and can only supply about 7ma



Anyway what prevents Stax to increase the output current on their commercial amp?
I mean they already play in a very premium and segmented market anyway. If they worried about practicality, the Current Feedback Amp design or even applying the Constant Current Source mod on its existing output stage should overcome the issue.


----------



## astrostar59

AudioThief said:


> Jesus christ.. I'm not sure what you are getting at here? If you think this debate is about money, you are wrong. And even if I was a legit homeless man who had only ever heard a koss porta pro, the truth of my arguments wouldn't be presided by what gear I own. I know what a fully driven 007 sounds like because I've had a 007 with a 727ii for years. I prefered the lambda series, so I "downgraded". I see you like to laugh at my Modi 3 a lot - I've owned a gustard x20, too. The modi 3 sounds excellent - I highly recommend it



This is getting heated. Really this IMO is down to Stax, their fault. They can and should make better amps. Period. The cans scale so.....


----------



## arnaud

It's been rehashed countless times but I guess this all fades aways slowly... 
In a few words / as I recall, shipping weight, projected MSRP and expected roi.
You're a bit more cautious when your company has once gone under due to overly bold moves... 
Actually, the SR009 in itself was already a very expense endaevour and may have expedited the end of Stax independence.
Opinions on Stax gear in this board probably do not reflect overall sales but I keep wondering if the T8000 will ever be profitable product for Stax and that might make them even less inclined to go further long this road.


----------



## astrostar59

Well, there are LOTS of small audio companies doing great such as Dartzeel (7 staff) for example. Many too many to list. There is a niche for high quality audio but the product has to be superb, and the price reflective of the performance. Both don't apply to the T8000 IMO.

Head-amp has been making the BHSE for 5+ years? And they are also a small company. I don't see the issue with Stax not doing it. Unless they are outsourcing the boards and such, creating more markup? But there is huge resource in Japan to build a TOTL amp. I don't get it.

My guess is they may not have the expertise in-house? The designs of their amps seem to be old rehashed circuits? Thoughts anyone....

I really wish they would bring out the best amp, shake things up. It would bring a complete highest level system to more users IMO, give confidence.


----------



## tumpux

I'm not talking about mammoth amps like T2. 
Implementing CCS on the output stage should help. Release a small batch to commemorate Reiwa era. We all are suckers for those..


----------



## soren_brix

tumpux said:


> Anyway what prevents Stax to increase the output current on their commercial amp?





tumpux said:


> I'm not talking about mammoth amps like T2.
> Implementing CCS on the output stage should help. Release a small batch to commemorate Reiwa era. We all are suckers for those..



However, raising the current in the output stage means more heat, means heavier sinks/chassis, and most likely more bold output transistors as well

The 727 features just that, so Stax already did it, and for some reason decided not to pursue it further ...


----------



## JimL11 (Jul 15, 2019)

tumpux said:


> Anyway what prevents Stax to increase the output current on their commercial amp?
> I mean they already play in a very premium and segmented market anyway. If they worried about practicality, the Current Feedback Amp design or even applying the Constant Current Source mod on its existing output stage should overcome the issue.





tumpux said:


> I'm not talking about mammoth amps like T2.
> Implementing CCS on the output stage should help. Release a small batch to commemorate Reiwa era. We all are suckers for those..



All the Stax solid state output amps (717,323, 727, 353, T8000) have constant current loads on the outputs, none of their tube output amps (T1, 006, 007) have constant current loads, with the exception of the discontinued SRM-T2. Why they haven't updated their tube output amp technology is anyone's guess. Since they have solid state input and intermediate stages, they are already hybrid amps, so it's not as if they are going for a pure tube amp anyways.

As for increasing the output current, I agree with @soren_brix - Stax amps are designed for reliable long life, which means running the electronics conservatively, and that means relatively low temperatures. In addition, until the T8000, they had settled on a relatively small form factor for their amps. Higher current would require larger heat sinks, possibly larger amp size, certainly more weight, which increases shipping cost, etc.

Also, remember that Stax' primary market is Japan. Japanese homes are relatively small compared to Europe or the US. There is the apocryphal story of a Japanese who bought a grand piano for their apartment, which was so small that they ended up sleeping under it. Consider the size of the original SRM-T2, which was the proximate cause of the original Stax company going bankrupt, versus the DIY T2 The circuits are identical, but the latter is several times bigger, for better heat management. The original T2 is notorious for reliability problems in part due to its small size. I would not be surprised if that small size was chosen to make it more acceptable to the Japanese domestic market.

The common guess is that they were burned by their SOTA T2 causing bankruptcy, so they are reluctant to make the same mistake twice. They are presumably doing fine selling what they have, so why rock the boat?


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 15, 2019)

I think there is no profit in high-end electrostatic amplifier market. Especially when Birgir is selling his amps with almost no profit margin.

There is something that i can't figure out, if Carbon has higher current output and the voltage swing is only affecting the loudness, how come T2 can sound better than Carbon; i'm asking because the general consensus in these forums is that T2 is sounding better than Carbon.


----------



## AudioThief

Tugbars said:


> I don't think there is no profit in high-end electrostatic amplifier market. Especially when Birgir is selling his amps with almost no profit margin.
> 
> There is something that i can't figure out, if Carbon has higher current output and the voltage swing is only affecting the loudness, how come T2 can sound better than Carbon; i'm asking because the general consensus in these forums is that T2 is sounding better than Carbon.



But he still makes them and is likely partial as to how good it sounds. As for T2, it is a legendary amplifier and much rarer than Carbon, so since it is less accessible, people are likely to attribute it EVEN GREATER sound. Not that it actually sounds any better, because that doesn't make any sense.


----------



## Ojisan

Tugbars said:


> I don't think there is no profit in high-end electrostatic amplifier market. Especially when Birgir is selling his amps with almost no profit margin.
> 
> There is something that i can't figure out, if Carbon has higher current output and the voltage swing is only affecting the loudness, how come T2 can sound better than Carbon; i'm asking because the general consensus in these forums is that T2 is sounding better than Carbon.



If I read Kevin's earlier post correctly, he is saying T2 can do 500v/15mA at 20kHz into 120pf. Carbon does 450v/18-20mA. That's already a 50v drop despite a higher current and Kevin hasn't mentioned the frequency/load. So it seems that numbers suggest T2 still is at the top of the group in terms of drive capability. I'm sure there are other factors like slew rate based on available device and topology, etc.


----------



## soren_brix

Ojisan said:


> If I read Kevin's earlier post correctly, he is saying T2 can do 500v/15mA at 20kHz into 120pf. Carbon does 450v/18-20mA. That's already a 50v drop despite a higher current and Kevin hasn't mentioned the frequency/load. So it seems that numbers suggest T2 still is at the top of the group in terms of drive capability. I'm sure there are other factors like slew rate based on available device and topology, etc.



Kevin states the load: 120pf , which pretty much resemble the load Lambda/007/009 represent to the amp

The current requirement is governed by the capacitance (load), voltage and frequency, the current requirement drops linearly with voltage assuming the same capacitance (load) and frequency. The calculation is based on 20kHz full swing, however, music usually only contains full swing upto around 6kHz, and drops hereafter.
Minimum current requirement is more likely to be around 6mA-ish, 
Having 18mA means that only a third is going into the load, and thus the OS is mush less challenged in comparison to an OS with only 6mA or less current. 
As for the voltage swing, it is governed by the rails/power supply, and boils down to the simple fact that caps rated for >550V is expensive, large and hard to come by, thus why Kevin chose a lower voltage for the Carbon.

Its all about speed and overhead.


----------



## kevin gilmore (Jul 15, 2019)

in the previous post in all cases for all voltages, the stax standard load is 120pf. which includes the cable.
voce is a bit more at 130pf (actual measured)
kse1500 headphone are 80pf (actual measured)

the current source for the carbon is a 900v part which limits the power supply voltages to 450v
there is an alternate part that does 1000v, some who have done this think it does not sound as good

the power supply is indeed another issue. If you want to make 500v power supplies, you need the primary
caps to be 550v rated or more, and those are hard to find.

the circlotron which uses 900v power supplies uses double the number of power supply caps, 2 in series for each voltage. ends up pretty huge. and pretty dangerous.


----------



## Ojisan

Thanks @soren_brix and @kevin gilmore for the insight! I understand the importance of supply and how that’s another whole art!

So on linear relationship of current vs frequency, is there a notion of higher current requirement for estats at very low frequency? Or does estat stay constant capacitance (impedance) across frequency?


----------



## soren_brix (Jul 15, 2019)

Ojisan said:


> Thanks @soren_brix and @kevin gilmore for the insight! I understand the importance of supply and how that’s another whole art!
> 
> So on linear relationship of current vs frequency, is there a notion of higher current requirement for estats at very low frequency? Or does estat stay constant capacitance (impedance) across frequency?




V(t) = A sin (w t), and C = Q / V => V = Q / C, both derived with respect to time, and re-arrange for I, one get:

*I = A * 2pi * f * C*


----------



## AudioThief

soren_brix said:


> have you tried to make it really hard to access your srm-252? it might sound EVEN GREATER that way ;o)
> 
> .
> 
> ...



What is that even supposed to mean? Do you think thr 252s is the only estat amp Ive heard or owned? Gotta love the elitism, pretty laughable


----------



## soren_brix

AudioThief said:


> What is that even supposed to mean? Do you think thr 252s is the only estat amp Ive heard or owned? Gotta love the elitism, pretty laughable


just ignore the comment please


----------



## Mach3

kevin gilmore said:


> in the previous post in all cases for all voltages, the stax standard load is 120pf. which includes the cable.
> voce is a bit more at 130pf (actual measured)
> kse1500 headphone are 80pf (actual measured)
> 
> ...



Does a working circlotron exist in this universe? I keep hearing about it but it rarer than unicorns. Photo would be nice.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## tumpux

define working..


----------



## Mach3

It's when you turn the unit on and it doesn't divide your head by infinity


----------



## protoss

Mach3 said:


> Does a working circlotron exist in this universe? I keep hearing about it but it rarer than unicorns. Photo would be nice.
> Thanks in advance.


----------



## protoss

*A15 Circlotron $500*


----------



## staticdynamo

New  STAX Conpany Profile video on YouTube.   **


----------



## Dan Lee

Sorry to break topic.  Have any of you heard or heard anything about Vincent Audio's SA-32 preamp?


----------



## thinker

i'm dreaming of a graphene coated electrostatic driver


----------



## Sound Eq

thinker said:


> i'm dreaming of a graphene coated electrostatic driver



and ???


----------



## tigon_ridge

thinker said:


> i'm dreaming of a graphene coated electrostatic driver



Graphene wouldn't be the coating, but the diaphragm core structure. Graphene would be the ideal material, due to its high strength to weight and thickness ratio (can potentially be a single layer lattice of carbon). It would necessarily be coated with an insulating material.


----------



## bearwarrior

thinker said:


> i'm dreaming of a graphene coated electrostatic driver



The closest driver I have seen is graphane which is terminated with oxygen on the graphene surface. But the driver itself is still based on insulating polymer. Due to the nature of graphene, it needs at least ~10 nm thickness with minimum defects so that it can accomplish the requirement of the driver. The current graphene manufacture to make this will cost a fortune. Until the manufacture reduces the cost, maybe 5-10 years, people might start to see some products with graphene driver. It may take another 5 years to get a legendary product. But, it is possible. IT TAKES TIME. and much more than people think.


----------



## chinsettawong

thinker said:


> i'm dreaming of a graphene coated electrostatic driver



Why?


----------



## protoss

chinsettawong said:


> Why?




Theres hype going around thats why


----------



## tigon_ridge

protoss said:


> Theres hype going around thats why



The link to the kickstarter. Most of it screams "SCAM." 

It's all marketing BS aimed at newbie audiophiles—until it gets to the _technical_ BS:

"Speakers are probably the least efficient technology that we still use in our day to day lives. Less than 1% of the electrical power that goes into a speaker is converted into sound power. Graphene’s lightweight and low density properties means that it requires a lot less energy to move the membrane and produce sound."

Most of the mass in a dynamic driver isn't necessarily in the diaphragm. Unless they can make the cone and coil out of graphene as well, the benefit to an ultralight diaphragm is moot. It would have to be astronomically tensioned in order to produce high frequencies, since graphene is extremely flexible. That tension would require the graphene to be so extremely thickly layered, it would cancel out the weight advantage of the material. Funny how even with the "lightweight and low density" of existing electrostatic and planar-dynamic diaphragms, it still requires big, power-hungry amps to optimally drive them, except for a few planars.


----------



## protoss

@tigon_ridge 

Joshua basically said the same thing you just said in the video I linked lol.

Soo.... Yea.....


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 19, 2019)

Sound Eq said:


> and ???



Those are Perun, russian electrostatic headphones. Unfortunately their reputation isn't very high.


----------



## thinker

finally a Carbon killer


----------



## thinker

Tugbars said:


> Those are Perun, russian electrostatic headphones. Unfortunately their reputation isn't very high.



this is not Perun


----------



## n3rdling

Man, kickstarter etc are incredible.  Well over half a million USD raised for a HP campaign filled with nonsense, pseudo-science, buzzwords , and intentionally misleading statements.  I wish I lacked a conscience so I could start promoting.

I'm not even going to go over how much BS is on their page, but I'd like to at least comment on what you guys are talking about:  A single-atom layer sheet of graphene is not practical for estat diaphragm applications.  It is extremely conductive, so a layer of insulation would need to be bound to it (reducing mass advantages) and the graphene would need to be insulated from the bias line completely which would be very hard at that scale.  An electrostat with a conductive diaphragm (they exist) exhibits orders of magnitude more distortion than traditional stats, and stat fans naturally hate distortion - that's like half the point of using stats.  It has been done before for a PhD thesis, but their only goal was to be the first to do it, not to actually reach X levels of quality.  Additionally, it is very brittle, and simply dropping the HP a few inches would be enough to shatter the diaphragm.  

Graphene and family have great promise for audio, but these are still underdeveloped industries, and incorporating them into our products would require a complete overhaul of current build standards at the very minimum.


----------



## soren_brix

thinker said:


> finally a Carbon killer


hows that?






Looking at the specs provided, the amp most likely has ~325-350V rails, and around <10mA output stage current ...
and sounds a bit like a 323/353 type-of-thing based on an switch mode power supply.


----------



## thinker

i'm going to test the amp maybe in two weeks,it's an improved version of Carbon( i cannot go into details) and well suited for phenomenon headphones and probably SR-009


----------



## soren_brix

thinker said:


> ...( i cannot go into details) ...


  ...


----------



## Sound Eq

thinker said:


> i'm going to test the amp maybe in two weeks,it's an improved version of Carbon( i cannot go into details) and well suited for phenomenon headphones and probably SR-009



looking forward to your impressions, but when you say its an improved version of Carbon, that is a huge claim, did you base the claim on specs and how it was made and components used, or just by reading what others say bout its sound. Then comes its driving capability, if it can not drive the 007 as the carbon, then how would that be an improved version over the carbon


----------



## tumpux

What exactly is it?


----------



## florence

Sound Eq said:


> looking forward to your impressions, but when you say its an improved version of Carbon, that is a huge claim, did you base the claim on specs and how it was made and components used, or just by reading what others say bout its sound. Then comes its driving capability, if it can not drive the 007 as the carbon, then how would that be an improved version over the carbon


New mjölnir audio KGSSHV drives my 007mk2 easily. Can't go beyond 12 o'clock.


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 19, 2019)

thinker said:


> finally a Carbon killer


There is only 1 carbon killer

And it comes from the 1 and only Legendary KG

The KG-T2

Everything else is a hype

KG-T2 lights the room in the dark of night, lighting your moods with it legendary performances, and keeping you warm during cold day.  The one and only


----------



## Ojisan

Whitigir said:


> There is only 1 carbon killer
> 
> And it comes from the 1 and only Legendary KG
> 
> ...



DX220 that good to fully utilize T2? Or just having fun and you have other desktop source?


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 19, 2019)

Ojisan said:


> DX220 that good to fully utilize T2? Or just having fun and you have other desktop source?


What about this ? =/ but I do have more lol!


----------



## Ojisan

Whitigir said:


> What about this ? =/ but I do have more lol!



Nice portable rig!  

Just realized you have LKS listed in your sig, doh.


----------



## Whitigir

Ojisan said:


> Nice portable rig!
> 
> Just realized you have LKS listed in your sig, doh.


Lol, if one day you don’t see me posting anymore, my wife probably realized my secrets hahaha


----------



## Ojisan

Whitigir said:


> Lol, if one day you don’t see me posting anymore, my wife probably realized my secrets hahaha



Haha, that or that Sony thing or T2 rolled over on top of you when you are out and about! Careful not to trip over!


----------



## staticdynamo

So you go back to the expensive amplifiers. Are they needed? No serious discussions. I am satisfied with current STAX amplifiers.
Looking back to 80's, STAX earspeakers have far more powerful and solid sound never imagined at that age. Through STAX
amplifiers, of course it can be listenable. Anyway STAX knows about the sound quality deeper.
STAX cares about the big size of amplifiers for Japanese houses? No!  Basically STAX made audio products (not only headphones) .
They made big amplifiers for their speakers in 1990s. Is SRM-T2 the cause of STAX's bankrupt? I think it would not be.
Japanese page of conpany history contains more information than English pages. https://stax.co.jp/company/product_history86-95/
And I know the products STAX used to make.


----------



## astromaddie

I apologise if this has been covered before, I've been searching the thread, but 1200 pages is a lot of research 
I've demoed some Stax and am convinced I want to get one. I was only able to demo the L300, L700, and 007, and of those, I liked the L700 the most. I'm looking secondhand, and am down to two choices:

L300LTD (which I've heard is similar to L700) + 007tII
L700 + T1S (plus a bonus SR-3)
I'm leaning towards the L700, I suspect it's the better overall headphone, and the extra power of the L700 probably isn't necessary, plus I like the idea of the additional legacy port for flexibility. Am I off-base here? Or am I overthinking this?


----------



## thinker

Tugbars said:


> Those are Perun, russian electrostatic headphones. Unfortunately their reputation isn't very high.


I have some friends who have switched over from SR-009 to Perun including me.Where you have heard Perun to make such a statement


----------



## thinker

Whitigir said:


> There is only 1 carbon killer
> 
> And it comes from the 1 and only Legendary KG
> 
> ...



tube amps for electrostatic headphones are made only for reason to adjust your personal musical preferences.Tube amps work better for dynamic and planar headphones.


----------



## arielext

arielext said:


> 353x XLR vs KGSS(HV) or KGST, knowing I'm not going above '2' (= 9 'o clock).
> from a consumer point of view: are either KG amps worth it? I'm pairing the amp with the sr-007mk2(.9) headphones with which I am very impressed. Based on reviews I think I prefer the 007 over the 009. I like laid-back, dark but detailed and never fatiguing. I am really wondering if a 2k euro amp will change enough, except the hype it brings. Some claim a 323/353 is a kgss or as near as possible. the 323 doesn't sport the XLR inputs and I can confirm those change the sound signature quite a lot.


I found a KGSShv which arrived today and had plugged it in ~ 4 hours ago.
Holographic, life like, disappearing and a bass that keeps impressing me. Those are the words that come to mind.
It's the same music, the same DAC, the same headphone but a completely new experience.
I'm still in the honeymoon period of course but this might just be a marriage for life.


----------



## JimL11

thinker said:


> tube amps for electrostatic headphones are made only for reason to adjust your personal musical preferences.Tube amps work better for dynamic and planar headphones.



I have a different opinion. Tubes are naturally high voltage low current devices, as are electrostatic headphones. Dynamic and planar headphones are by comparison relatively low voltage and high current, which fits solid state better. And I prefer the sound of tube electronics for electrostatic headphones.


----------



## Currawong

n3rdling said:


> Man, kickstarter etc are incredible.  Well over half a million USD raised for a HP campaign filled with nonsense, pseudo-science, buzzwords , and intentionally misleading statements.  I wish I lacked a conscience so I could start promoting.
> 
> I'm not even going to go over how much BS is on their page, but I'd like to at least comment on what you guys are talking about:  A single-atom layer sheet of graphene is not practical for estat diaphragm applications.  It is extremely conductive, so a layer of insulation would need to be bound to it (reducing mass advantages) and the graphene would need to be insulated from the bias line completely which would be very hard at that scale.  An electrostat with a conductive diaphragm (they exist) exhibits orders of magnitude more distortion than traditional stats, and stat fans naturally hate distortion - that's like half the point of using stats.  It has been done before for a PhD thesis, but their only goal was to be the first to do it, not to actually reach X levels of quality.  Additionally, it is very brittle, and simply dropping the HP a few inches would be enough to shatter the diaphragm.
> 
> Graphene and family have great promise for audio, but these are still underdeveloped industries, and incorporating them into our products would require a complete overhaul of current build standards at the very minimum.



Actual carbon drivers that I've seen used woven carbon fibres. Supposedly they are going to appear in speakers soon, if they haven't already.


----------



## tabness (Jul 21, 2019)

astromaddie said:


> I apologise if this has been covered before, I've been searching the thread, but 1200 pages is a lot of research
> I've demoed some Stax and am convinced I want to get one. I was only able to demo the L300, L700, and 007, and of those, I liked the L700 the most. I'm looking secondhand, and am down to two choices:
> 
> L300LTD (which I've heard is similar to L700) + 007tII
> ...



The T1S is generally considered good for Lambdas even by many of those who swear by the more powerful energizer theory (I think the harder to drive 009S sounds just fine on the T1S with none of the sonic issues some say would happen on energizers of its power class). Also the 007tII is supposed to be very similar in terms of circuit design as the 006t/T1 energizers. You can also get a solid state energizer for cheaper (353X or 252S) and those will probably have more of a difference in sound than between the T1S/007tII. The only issue with getting a used T1S is that it may be time to replace the capacitors and (probably less likely) tubes. However, I haven't had that done that with my third hand T1S and it seems to be holding up fine so far. The legacy (non Pro) port on the T1S wouldn't really be necessary unless you are getting into real old school Stax (most/all of the models since the late eighties use the Pro port).

No experience on the Lambdas myself unfortunately but you should check out the dedicated thread to see what others think of the difference between the L300 Limited Edition and the L700 (from what I have read it seems minor). These seem to have the same driver so the differences are in the build quality and pads (L500 pads on the L300 Limited Edition) and the housing. You can put L700 pads on an L300 Limited Edition although the pads are expensive ($130ish).

Good luck, I'm also really looking into a cheaper Stax myself since I like the sound sometimes but the electrostatic sound isn't doing it for me to be my main headphone (in the places it is better it isn't that much better than some of the dynamics I have had though to be fair I have/had some great dynamics and there is a slight bit of artificial "plastic" as some describe it in some sounds that dynamics do better for the stuff I listen to and also the only instruments I have had experience with are guitars which don't sound as real on the 009S as on some of my dynamics... though piano is where the 009S probably does a bit better to get to reality).


----------



## astromaddie

tabness said:


> The T1S is generally considered good for Lambdas even by many of those who swear by the more powerful energizer theory (I think the harder to drive 009S sounds just fine on the T1S with none of the sonic issues some say would happen on energizers of its power class). Also the 007tII is supposed to be very similar in terms of circuit design as the 006t/T1 energizers. You can also get a solid state energizer for cheaper (353X or 252S) and those will probably have more of a difference in sound than between the T1S/007tII. The only issue with getting a used T1S is that it may be time to replace the capacitors and (probably less likely) tubes. However, I haven't had that done that with my third hand T1S and it seems to be holding up fine so far. The legacy (non Pro) port on the T1S wouldn't really be necessary unless you are getting into real old school Stax (most/all of the models since the late eighties use the Pro port).


Thanks for the reply! This was really reassuring, especially hearing the difference between them would be pretty small, and even the 009S is driven "fine" for it. From what I was reading, it does seem like the differences between the different Stax-official drivers, there's not a substantial difference. I ended up going for the T1S+L700. It actually did come with a bonus oldschool Stax (SR-3) that's in really nice condition. They warned me it has a ground hum in the left channel occasionally, I haven't heard it yet, but not sure what the cause could be for that. Maybe someone here has some ideas? I guess I'll know more when I encounter it myself. The SR-3s still sound nice, even for their age! More mid-focused. And the L700+T1S sounds absolutely terrific! I'm very happy with it. The T1S was boxed and unused until the previous owner bought it from a collector a couple years ago, so I think it should be in good shape for a bit. The tubes were also replaced with higher-quality tubes, and they included the (unused) originals with the sale to me.



tabness said:


> No experience on the Lambdas myself unfortunately but you should check out the dedicated thread to see what others think of the difference between the L300 Limited Edition and the L700 (from what I have read it seems minor). These seem to have the same driver so the differences are in the build quality and pads (L500 pads on the L300 Limited Edition) and the housing. You can put L700 pads on an L300 Limited Edition although the pads are expensive ($130ish).


I didn't realise there was a dedicated thread for this, thanks! Checking it out now. I did read they had minor differences, but if anything the L700 should have a slight edge. The L700 set I bought came with a second pair of brand-new L700 pads, so it seemed like a better deal anyway. I figured the a minor upgrade in the headphone will make a bigger difference than a minor upgrade in the energiser.




tabness said:


> Good luck, I'm also really looking into a cheaper Stax myself since I like the sound sometimes but the electrostatic sound isn't doing it for me to be my main headphone (in the places it is better it isn't that much better than some of the dynamics I have had though to be fair I have/had some great dynamics and there is a slight bit of artificial "plastic" as some describe it in some sounds that dynamics do better for the stuff I listen to and also the only instruments I have had experience with are guitars which don't sound as real on the 009S as on some of my dynamics... though piano is where the 009S probably does a bit better to get to reality).


Interesting to hear, I wasn't super excited about the 007/009 when I tried them at the store too. They felt smoother than the L700, but maybe for my tastes in music (particularly electronic), they didn't have the same draw. I didn't demo them for more than 15-20 minutes though, so that's just my very-brief first impressions.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

JimL11 said:


> I have a different opinion. Tubes are naturally high voltage low current devices, as are electrostatic headphones. Dynamic and planar headphones are by comparison relatively low voltage and high current, which fits solid state better. And I prefer the sound of tube electronics for electrostatic headphones.


Cold and factual truth. Let's have some dirty sex together.

Ali


----------



## BreadMaster

Ali-Pacha said:


> Cold and factual truth. Let's have some dirty sex together.
> 
> Ali


Count me in.


----------



## JimL11

Ali-Pacha said:


> Cold and factual truth. Let's have some dirty sex together.
> 
> Ali





BreadMaster said:


> Count me in.



Why not three?  Must do it wearing headphones!


----------



## Jones Bob

Aural sex?


----------



## BreadMaster

Jones Bob said:


> Aural sex?


Whatever you like, you in?


----------



## Jones Bob

I’m monogamous with my STAX.


----------



## zachary80

VRacer-111 said:


> 1.
> 
> 
> 2. One stick works for both cups, break stick in half:
> ...



Thank you for posting this mod. I love that the Stax actually has some bass now (I did it to my L300 Limited). Have you experimented with different gaps in the seal? I am hearing some slight boominess/bloatedness in the upper bass or to midbass on some tracks. It just doesn't sound as clean as my LCD2C


----------



## afgmjkl

I want to convert one of the pro outputs to normal on my SRM-1 mk2 P.P.
I'm planning to put a voltage divider below, but not sure if resistors value is correct.
Could someone help me? thanks.


----------



## soren_brix

afgmjkl said:


> I want to convert one of the pro outputs to normal on my SRM-1 mk2 P.P.
> I'm planning to put a voltage divider below, but not sure if resistors value is correct.
> Could someone help me? thanks.


don't it have a NB socket already?

Stax tap the NB from the positive rail through 180k+390k to GND, plus a u100F (film) to GND and a 2m2 ballast resistor (which you have forgot to attach to Vout in your schematic)
tapping from the PRO bias will pull down the PRO bias.


----------



## kevin gilmore

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...+srm1+mk2+schematic&ajaxhist=0&vt=0&eim=1,2,6

you want to duplicate the low bias design here. 180k series, 390k to ground from the +350 power supply. 2 x 2.2M resistors in series.

Loading the 580v line even before the 2.2M resistors won't work due to the high impedance of the voltage doubler.


----------



## afgmjkl

soren_brix said:


> don't it have a NB socket already?
> 
> Stax tap the NB from the positive rail through 180k+390k to GND, plus a u100F (film) to GND and a 2m2 ballast resistor (which you have forgot to attach to Vout in your schematic)
> tapping from the PRO bias will pull down the PRO bias.





kevin gilmore said:


> https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&id=F7DA44B70914F8C65D05BC11BAEA61C58FF62A3C&thid=OIP.jPVlhDeEwIi14RGQgIB53gHaEy&mediaurl=https://cdn.head-fi.org/g/1476820_l.jpg&exph=827&expw=1280&q=stax+srm1+mk2+schematic&selectedindex=15&qpvt=stax+srm1+mk2+schematic&ajaxhist=0&vt=0&eim=1,2,6
> 
> you want to duplicate the low bias design here. 180k series, 390k to ground from the +350 power supply. 2 x 2.2M resistors in series.
> 
> Loading the 580v line even before the 2.2M resistors won't work due to the high impedance of the voltage doubler.


Thank you!!!


----------



## Dan Lee (Aug 4, 2019)

Hey guys so I have had the opportunity to spend some good quality time with some of the most well known electrostatic headphones on people's minds and would like to provide you with a hopefully short review of my thoughts on them.

Gear:
- Denafrips Terminator
- KGSSHV Carbon
- Signal Cable XLR interconnects

Headphones:
- Hifiman Shangri-La Jr.
- MrSpeakers Voce
- Stax SR-007MKII
- Stax SR-009
- Stax SR-009S

I will provide the descriptions in the order in which I rank them. 
*
5.  Hifiman Shangri-La Jr.*
This headphone has the worst build quality of the all which is hard to believe when taking its $4K price into consideration.  Then again haven't we all kind of come to expect this from Hifiman.  The cable is what can only be described as the worst possible cable to ever come with a headphone at this price and even below.  However these things being said the more important aspects to consider are how it sounds.  Midrange on this headphone has to be one of the best I have heard on any headphone I have thus far put on my head.  I mean it is just extraordinary in just how beautiful and magical it sounds.  Bass is competent and for the most part well presented just with little in the way of impact.  Treble felt slightly veiled and possibly a little grainy to me.  Overall the detail is still there and it really is a great sounding pair of cans, but you will have to decide if midrange glory is enough to justify the price of admission.  If you can get it for a steal used then it's absolutely worth it to at least hear for yourself.  But for me the fact that Hifiman had the balls to put this on the market for $4K is just a little crazy to me. 

*4.  Stax SR-007MKII*
Were it not for the terrible pricing of the Jr. above I would have put this at number 5.  I know people absolutely worship this headphone, but I am led to believe that it is either the MKI or a modded version.  I say this because this unit was so grainy sounding compared to the others that I could hardly listen to it.  Had I not heard any of the others it could have been said that this was a decent headphone, however in this company I would not ever recommend it.  I wish that I had an MKI to have tested as I can only imagine it would sound significantly better then the MKII.  I have heard the SR-L700 in the past and felt that was far superior to these.  I will say this, the bass on these is by far the most impactful of all the electrostatics I have heard and even some planars.  So if your into bass and not much else the MKII may be for you.  I am aware these well could have simply been a poor representation of the 007's from the factory, but none the less this is the one I ended up with so take that for what its worth.

*3.  Stax SR-009*
I know, I know.  How the hell is this number 3?  These last 3 were unbelievably difficult for me to put in order and could in all honesty go in any order between the 3 depending upon your preferences.  This one is just unreal in its overall accuracy.  I have never heard a headphone that could render virtually every sound in a way that just seemed as though it were perfectly represented.  The speed of these is just incredible.  Few headphones have the stamina to keep up with metal music.  These didn't even flinch.  Everyone knows the reputation of these and requires little else in the way of description.  Could I have afforded it I would maintain ownership of the top three, but as it is I let these go.  But if you want the most accuracy without coloration I would venture to say there is no headphone made that would rival these.

*2.  MrSpeakers Voce*
Some may wonder how I came to this conclusion.  I have read so many reviews and post's on these that would have led me to believe they weren't that great.  I have a hard time understanding why after hearing them.  A lot of people said they simply "don't sound like electrostatics."  What the hell does that even mean?  They are electrostatics so by definition they sound like electrostatics.  As audiophiles shouldn't we be embracing diversity in sound signatures?  I must also ask if these individuals truly listened to and gave these a shot?  They may not have the top end of the 009 or the bottom of the 007.  They do however have an incredible and very accurate bottom end with great precision and speed.  The top end doesn't sacrifice detail though it may not be as noticeable as on the 009.  I think maybe the thing people miss most with these is the midrange.  The midrange on these is by far the most detailed midrange I have heard to date.  To be honest I never really thought of looking for more detail in the mids until I heard these.  The 009's are overall more detailed, but the mids on the Voce are more detailed than the 009's and I honestly could hear midrange details that I couldn't replicate on the 009's.  That is one of the main reasons I gave these the number 2 spot.  The other reason and perhaps the most important reason is that these are @mrspeakers first electrostatic headphones.  Let that sink in for a moment.  These are truly great cans with a price tag at $3K (just another plus).  Stax owns the top spot here and for most, but Stax has been playing in this league for a long as hell time.  If Dan Clark did this on his first shot all I can say is I can't wait for shot number 2 and beyond.

*1.  Stax SR-009S*
These are rightfully designated as SR-009 with the S being representative of subtle change.  That subtle change is a slight coloration or musicality infused into the sound signature.  In every other way these may as well be the 009, but that subtle coloration was enough to make them my perfect headphone.  While I enjoy accuracy, I find I enjoy it far more if tonaly more musical and euphonic.  So to date this is certainly the best headphone on the market for me.  I truly love the Voce and if you can afford both I believe it the perfect compliment to the 009/S as it will show you things in the music in a different manner.

Anyway I do hope that some of you may find some use for this review.  I would love to hear where your impressions varied to mine. 

If you read this far.  Thanks for reading.


----------



## protoss

@Dan Lee 

Great write up!

Nontheless all 5 of those are excellent ear-speakers.


----------



## Dan Lee

@protoss thank you my friend.  You are correct they certainly all are great and as we all know what is amazing for one may not be so for another.


----------



## billqs

Interesting ranking Dan Lee. I wonder where you would rank the Koss 950? That's become one of my "goto" headphones, especially when run from a KGSShv Carbon. Also, personally I prefer the SR-007 MkII to the SR-009, though both are great.


----------



## Dan Lee

I would like to hear the koss and also the sonoma at some point.  

I have heard a lot of people say the same about the 007 vs 009.  I am inclined to believe that I received a very poor representation of the 007.  I was very much looking forward to hearing the 007 because of how highly praised it was, but this set was very granular sounding.  This made detail retrieval almost non existent.  Either way the 009S is by far the best sounding headphone I have ever experienced.


----------



## Dan Lee

I just got a WA22 that I am currently using as a preamp to my Carbon which is nice and adds a little extra musicality to the overall sound.

However now that I can run planars again do any of you have a recommendation for some planar cans that would have a nice bassy and smooth sound to them.  I've used almost every one of the LCD lineup from Audeze and some hifimans, but my favorite pair was the Ether 2.  Any thoughts on this my friends.


----------



## headinclouds

Anyone looking for a good all-round amp to drive Stax and MrS Voce, I am putting up two amps for sale. One is a KGSShv Cube and the other was my own KGST which I will shortly be selling for a friend.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-kgsshv-electrostatic-headphone-amp.912235/


----------



## Currawong

It's worth considering that some of the legends about 'stats and amps have to do with how loud some people like to listen, and in some cases that was LOUD. Amp requirements are exponential to loudness, so I think this goes a long way to explaining why people were designing amps with voltages that would burn holes through chassis bolts if accidentally shorted.

If you like listening quietly especially, then the Stax amps are mostly fine IMO.


----------



## billqs

I could use some advice. I have put my SR-009 up for sale for 2 reasons: 1. A cash crunch due to money spent on upgrading mobile audio 2. While I grew to appreciate the SR-009, I've always preferred my 007 mkII(.9). I'm not really getting any interest. Has the market for 009 dried up after the introduction of the 009S? Or is there something wrong with the ad? I've listed lots of pics, or is my price out of line for where these sell these days?

Frankly, given these were the flagship phones (and touted by many to be the pinnacle of headphone sound) when I purchased them, I pretty surprised noone has even made an inquiry.


----------



## Jones Bob

billqs said:


> I could use some advice. I have put my SR-009 up for sale for 2 reasons: 1. A cash crunch due to money spent on upgrading mobile audio 2. While I grew to appreciate the SR-009, I've always preferred my 007 mkII(.9). I'm not really getting any interest. Has the market for 009 dried up after the introduction of the 009S? Or is there something wrong with the ad? I've listed lots of pics, or is my price out of line for where these sell these days?
> 
> Frankly, given these were the flagship phones (and touted by many to be the pinnacle of headphone sound) when I purchased them, I pretty surprised noone has even made an inquiry.



I put mine up for sale about a month and a half ago here and at a couple of other sites. I received crickets here on my ad. Sold them thru another site last week. 

My guess is they are no longer the newest and latest hyped electrostatics, so off the radar here for buyers. FWIW, I liked them better than the SR-007mk2. But I like ketchup on hotdogs.....


----------



## Pahani

Jones Bob said:


> But I like ketchup on hotdogs.....



Dem's fightin' words!
Oh wait, so do I........carry on


----------



## Dan Lee

I too had mine up for a while and eventually ended up trading for some planars.  I believe the market for electrostatics is just not as big as it is for planars so there are far fewer people that have any interest in them.  I have received hits on my planars now and have never had issues selling those.  The only ones I have had trouble with are the electrostatics.  Your price on yours is incredible too.  Its hard to believe you've not gotten hits for any reason other then there are simply fewer people looking for them.  

Good luck with your sell though my friend.  With that crazy price someone will scoop it up it just may require waiting till someone is looking for them.


----------



## statfi

Dan Lee said:


> *3. Stax SR-009S*... This one is just unreal in its overall accuracy. I have never heard a headphone that could render virtually every sound in a way that just seemed as though it were perfectly represented. The speed of these is just incredible.



OCD alert.  I presume that 3. is the original SR-009, and that the S here is superfluous  ?-)  Anyway, thanks for this well nuanced review!


----------



## tumpux

I think it’s simply the fact that everyone who wants sr-009 already has one since five years ago, and the ones who started to have interest in electrostatics either will start with the affordable models like lambdas or scared away by the (trumped up) amp requirement..


----------



## Dan Lee

statfi said:


> OCD alert.  I presume that 3. is the original SR-009, and that the S here is superfluous  ?-)  Anyway, thanks for this well nuanced review!


Whoops.  Thank you for pointing that out.  You are correct I did mean the 009 and not the 009S.  

Thank you for taking the time to read it.


----------



## billqs

I think you have a point. And someone just into electrostats can find a lot of excitement out of the Lambda series. My original bias Lambdas are still one of my favorite pair of headphones. So much so, when Soren built my Carbon, I asked for a normal bias plug instead of two pro bias just so I could drive it.


----------



## VandyMan

I think the asking prices for used 009s are just too high. Given that there is a small market to start with, a newer model,  a history of driver failures, and a non-transferable warranty, a steep price cut from new is justified, IMO. All the claims here that you need a 5K amp don't help either.


----------



## tumpux

but there is always someone who is looking for his next fix. The problem is whether he monitors headfi or not. 

It’s a great phone. If you keep it in a good condition someone will take it from you eventually.


----------



## BreadMaster

Dan Lee said:


> I would like to hear the koss and also the sonoma at some point.
> 
> I have heard a lot of people say the same about the 007 vs 009.  I am inclined to believe that I received a very poor representation of the 007.  I was very much looking forward to hearing the 007 because of how highly praised it was, but this set was very granular sounding.  This made detail retrieval almost non existent.  Either way the 009S is by far the best sounding headphone I have ever experienced.


Now you need to hear the 007 +009 on Diy T2


----------



## Dan Lee

haha.  I am pretty sure the T2 is simply not in my future unless they have a custom builder half off sale.  I think its gonna be a while before this apocalyptic style event haha.


----------



## billqs

I really feel the Carbon gives me all I need for STAX.


----------



## thinker

Phenomenon improved Carbon amplifier,lot's of light inside,excellent built


----------



## BreadMaster

thinker said:


> Phenomenon improved Carbon amplifier,lot's of light inside,excellent built


How much?


----------



## thinker

BreadMaster said:


> How much?


2500USD+shipping and customs


----------



## musicman59

thinker said:


> 2500USD+shipping and customs


Where to order?


----------



## thinker

musicman59 said:


> Where to order?


here
http://phenomenon.su/kontakty/

have been listening now for few hours,the fan is quite and keeps the amp running at medium temperature.The sound is absolutely fantastic, neutral,smooth, musical ,it has huge amount of air and soundstage and
pics everything up from the recording.Just a dream amp.


----------



## thinker

the three lights on front panel are 1-2-3 where 1 is left ch and 3 right ch the number 2 lights up when the amp is ready .The button in front is press button


----------



## thinker (Aug 7, 2019)

my room is now dark and noticed that the lights inside the amp are monitoring , the light inside moves slowly from green,blue to violet and red, looks like a alien craft


----------



## thinker (Aug 8, 2019)

Got a hello from Mafia 

"Ok, it's not often we see this level of crap... but holy **** on a stick.  So this is claimed to be an "improved Carbon" but the only improvement I can see is an added chance to burn your house down or give you a nasty shock.  Seriously, this is apex level crap and how anybody would ship something like this out...is just beyond me.  Also, gotta love "thinker" who consistently shows any possibility to do just that...."

This Phenomenon amp is not improvet Carbon amp it's a another level above it.Of course Spritzer is interested to sell the older design for 6500 USD to run he's business.But 6500 USD  really? look inside they are almost empty and the case is as ugly as it gets


----------



## JimL11

thinker said:


> Phenomenon improved Carbon amplifier,lot's of light inside,excellent built



Um.

Not sure that "improved" is the right word. Perhaps amp circuit is Carbon, but power supply definitely is not. Kevin Gilmore, designer of the Carbon, has pointed out what appears to be one of four HV switching power supply boards in upper right last picture, which are good for ~10 watts each. The original Carbon design uses a linear power supply, and requires heat sinking of the PS as well as the amp circuit, as a Carbon consumes around 160 watts IIRC. The KG PS is also MUCH quieter than any switching power supply can be. Switching supplies have two basic advantages - cost, and efficiency. 

On the other hand linear supplies are generally thought to sound better. Two examples. Stax uses a switching HV power supply in its least expensive and smallest amp - the SRM252. All its other amps use linear power supplies. And Ben Zwickel of Mojo Audio has done some business selling linear power supplies as upgrades to the Linear Tube Audio microZOTL headphone amp, which was originally sold with a switching power supply. Enough so that Linear Tube Audio now sells the microZOTL with a linear power supply as an upgrade.

Finally, what is an internal fan doing in an amp with external heatsinks? Seems like putting an automobile radiator fan in the trunk. Apparently the fan cooling is for the power supply, which has got to be a first. I've seen lots of amps with external heatsinks, some amps with fan-cooled internal heatsinks, but I have never seen a fan-cooled power supply before. Will wonders never cease?


----------



## BreadMaster

thinker said:


> Got a hello from Mafia
> 
> "Ok, it's not often we see this level of ****... but holy **** on a stick.  So this is claimed to be an "improved Carbon" but the only improvement I can see is an added chance to burn your house down or give you a nasty shock.  Seriously, this is apex level **** and how anybody would ship something like this out...is just beyond me.  Also, gotta love "thinker" who consistently shows any possibility to do just that...."
> 
> This Phenomenon amp is not improvet Carbon amp it's a another level above it.Of course Spritzer is interested to sell the older design for 6500 USD to run he's business.But 6500 USD  really? look inside they are almost empty and the case is as ugly as it gets


LOL that's Spritzer alright.


----------



## tigon_ridge

Well, aren't almost all PC power supplies equipped with a fan? That said, I don't see a vent in the case as an in/outtake for that fan. What's the point of having an internal fan, which adds electromagnetic interference beside sonic noise, if all it'll do is circulate warm air around the amp?


----------



## tigon_ridge

420V also isn't an improvement on the Carbon's 500V max output, unless I'm mistaken.


----------



## thinker

The Phenomenon amp 420V is designed for Phenomenon headphones (i did mention this earlier),the Phenomenon V5 versions are easy to drive, i don't know how the amp sounds with Stax phones, i will try later.I have listened now for several hours with Canorum V5/PH amp but honestly haven't heard yet a Stax set up to play on this level.I use a huge Abbas audio NOS dac in front of the chain and the result is like listenening to reel to reel masterband recorder.It's stunning how deep you can dive in the musical landscape with this combo.

Spritzer is the master of crushing not to mention how he was asking on he's website 6500 USD for a HE-90 clone with a Lambda driver inside.The Carbon amp 6500usd is almost empty inside and he offers the same amp in different sizes....,i'm just waiting, wich might be possible, if you are the master ,to get a Carbon crushed in a matchbox sized box.
And just wondering how far this has come, an indian electrostatic headphone maker is asking/buying/begging permission from Spritzer to get he's phones on the market.


----------



## tigon_ridge

@thinker There's Carbon, and there's Carbon CC, which only comes in only one size: BIG. The CC version is the only one that costs $6300 w/o RCAs, so you're being very misleading. An amp with a bunch of unnecessary things stuffed inside (such as a fan that adds EMI and blows around hot air) isn't necessarily better. 

I don't know why you brought up your amp in a Stax thread when you haven't used it on any Stax headphones, nor have you compared it to any Stax amp for driving your Russian estats.


----------



## soren_brix

tigon_ridge said:


> @thinker There's Carbon, and there's Carbon CC, which only comes in only one size: BIG. The CC version is the only one that costs $6300 w/o RCAs, so you're being very misleading. An amp with a bunch of unnecessary things stuffed inside (such as a fan that adds EMI and blows around hot air) isn't necessarily better.
> 
> I don't know why you brought up your amp in a Stax thread when you haven't used it on any Stax headphones, nor have you compared it to any Stax amp for driving your Russian estats.



Infact, @thinker's impression might be very, very true:


> but honestly haven't heard yet a Stax set up to play on this level





> It's stunning how deep you can dive in the musical landscape with this combo.


 , 
this might very well be the result of the amp generating a lot of THD, 

Looking at the pictures, it seems like the high voltage supply is very weak in comparison to the Carbon, also it looks like most of the CCS's has been omitted from the circuit, and this will result in a great deal of modulation and thus more THD; way, way more THD in comparison to a Carbon.

Nothing wrong in preferring a special flavor of sound, however electrostatics is much about accuracy, speed, low distortion etc, so why buy something really expensive and tweak it to a "level" that is easily obtained from much cheaper equipment?


----------



## JimL11

tigon_ridge said:


> Well, aren't almost all PC power supplies equipped with a fan? That said, I don't see a vent in the case as an in/outtake for that fan. What's the point of having an internal fan, which adds electromagnetic interference beside sonic noise, if all it'll do is circulate warm air around the amp?



True, lots of PC power supplies ARE equipped with a fan - but not hi fi amplifiers, which is what I was thinking of. Some hit fi amps are equipped with a fan, for example, the original Krell KSA-50 - but that is to cool the amplifier heatsinks, not the power supply.


----------



## JimL11

thinker said:


> The Phenomenon amp 420V is designed for Phenomenon headphones (i did mention this earlier),the Phenomenon V5 versions are easy to drive, i don't know how the amp sounds with Stax phones, i will try later.I have listened now for several hours with Canorum V5/PH amp but honestly haven't heard yet a Stax set up to play on this level.I use a huge Abbas audio NOS dac in front of the chain and the result is like listenening to reel to reel masterband recorder.It's stunning how deep you can dive in the musical landscape with this combo.
> 
> Spritzer is the master of crushing not to mention how he was asking on he's website 6500 USD for a HE-90 clone with a Lambda driver inside.The Carbon amp 6500usd is almost empty inside and he offers the same amp in different sizes....,i'm just waiting, wich might be possible, if you are the master ,to get a Carbon crushed in a matchbox sized box.
> And just wondering how far this has come, an indian electrostatic headphone maker is asking/buying/begging permission from Spritzer to get he's phones on the market.



So, the "improved Carbon" isn't really a Carbon, uses a noisier, switching power supply which is only capable of supplying a quarter of the power (at most) of a KG Carbon power supply, and hasn't been compared with a KG Carbon on Stax headphones - all posted on the Stax thread.


----------



## thinker (Aug 8, 2019)

soren_brix said:


> Infact, @thinker's impression might be very, very true:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 second hand market is crowded with "perfect" expensive amps ,obviously something is missing, the same with expensive Dacs like Dave etc.i got to listen to Dave for a while and thought
myself how far away musicality is compared to a good NOS dac like Abbas.But Rob likes to sell you million taps and maybe tomorrow 2 million tabs


----------



## harris4crna (Aug 9, 2019)

Just want to add a comment to state how happy to have joined the Stax 009/BHSE family. I can honestly state I have reached musical nirvana. Matter of fact, much $$$$$ later, I can honestly say I have reached my
Pinnacle. I know we all say this at some time in our audiophile career, but I just cannot imagine needing anything else within my audiophile setup. The Stax and BHSE combo took years to pull the plug, but got a good deal and jumped on it. Glad I did, now I know what you all have been saying for years, this truly is the end game for HPs.


----------



## headinclouds

The connection with this thread is that these are all Kevin Gilmore circuit designs for Stax ES ear-defenders.

I have taken this picture today because I have never had all of these builds together before.

From the left KGST, Blue Hawaii, KGSShv Carbon and KGSShv Cube. 

The Grounded Grid cannot be with us today as it is providing bliss to a gentleman in London.

All are very, very good, there is not a weak design amongst them, credit to Kevin.

Question.  Where would the high level headphone market be now if it wasn’t for Kevin and Birgir?


----------



## buzzlulu

headinclouds said:


> Question.  Where would the high level headphone market be now if it wasn’t for Kevin and Birgir?



Amen


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Blue Hawaï SE FTW. Got it 3 years ago, done with chasing some head-fi unicorn since that.

Ali


----------



## MrTechAgent

thinker said:


> Spritzer is the master of crushing not to mention how he was asking on he's website 6500 USD for a HE-90 clone with a Lambda driver inside.The Carbon amp 6500usd is almost empty inside and he offers the same amp in different sizes....,i'm just waiting, wich might be possible, if you are the master ,to get a Carbon crushed in a matchbox sized box.
> And just wondering how far this has come, an indian electrostatic headphone maker is asking/buying/begging permission from Spritzer to get he's phones on the market.



Are you an imbecile? 
If you knew Birgir or any of the other guys who have contributed to the Electrostatic world, you wouldn't talk such garbage.


----------



## thinker (Aug 11, 2019)

MrTechAgent said:


> Are you an imbecile?
> If you knew Birgir or any of the other guys who have contributed to the Electrostatic world, you wouldn't talk such garbage.



I'm waiting to getting permanently banned from Head-Fi community but this doesnt happened yet .

The term imbecile is a mental health issue ,if you don't know you can check it out here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbecile

There are other forums out there to discuss these kind of problems

Mafia and the godfather Spritzer is a platform to anything


----------



## Tugbars

you just seem to be advertising russian electrostatic products here. You are saying that Dima's amp is better than Carbon without giving any details.For you, Perun is the ultimate end-game yet you hesitate to share any measurements done with Perun. 

also you said "carbon has been improved" Everybody is building their own Carbon nowadays. Only Birgir is using his own boards(I don't now about Soren), everyone else is using KG's 0.64 version circuit boards. Birgir's Carbon is at 8th version.


----------



## JimL11 (Aug 10, 2019)

Actually, spritzer rather liked the Phenomenon headphones. And on the Phenomenon website, the amp is listed as having a maximum output of 430VRMS (no frequency specified), and a frequency response of 1Hz - 35 kHz. By comparison the Stax SRM-727 has a maximum output of 450 VRMS at 1 kHz, and a frequency response of DC - 115kHz. This suggests that the Phenomenon uses +/-350V power supplies, or thereabouts.

While either amp can play loud enough to cause permanent hearing loss, by comparison a KG Carbon should be able to put out around 600 VRMS with +/-450V supplies. The reason for having such capability is not so much to destroy your hearing, but rather that at normal listening levels the amp is just loafing, and has ample capacity to accommodate peaks without clipping. Studies from the 1950s demonstrated that classical music, for example has a ratio of average to peak levels up to 17 dB, which is 50 fold in power, or 7-fold in voltage terms. So a forte musical passage which measures 90 dB on an averaging SPL meter, may contain peak levels of up to 107 dB.


----------



## thinker (Aug 11, 2019)

Tugbars said:


> you just seem to be advertising russian electrostatic products here. You are saying that Dima's amp is better than Carbon without giving any details.For you, Perun is the ultimate end-game yet you hesitate to share any measurements done with Perun.
> 
> also you said "carbon has been improved" Everybody is building their own Carbon nowadays. Only Birgir is using his own boards(I don't now about Soren), everyone else is using KG's 0.64 version circuit boards. Birgir's Carbon is at 8th version.



Perun measurements are here somewhere on forum and they are excellent.Dimas amp is excellent, very musical,i cannot go further until i get it tested with Stax phones.Compared to Stax amps the difference is huge with Canorum.
No interest where phones are produced but have mentioned Russian phones often because they are interesting,something between pro and DIY and they are very musical.The Libratum V3 phone you can already compare with best Stax phones,the latest
version V5  is coming soon maybe in 6 months.An indian electrostatic phone is also interesting but who needs a positive opinion from Spritzer


----------



## thinker (Aug 14, 2019)

Today i tested Phenomenon with Staxes.Not enough power to drive for instance a 007mk2 to bliss but 009 is excellent and is perfect with my all time favorite Stax Lambda signature.The amp is dead quite no audible hiss or hum.The sound is more like otl tube amp very relaxed stll dynamic very open and plenty of air.Excellent amp for Lambdas and 009.Here also a inside picture of the NOS dac wich i mentioned earlier, Dave sounds very dry and lifeless compared to this.All together this combo reminds me of a reel to reel taperecorder


----------



## thinker (Aug 14, 2019)

and a modified Canorum


----------



## Whitigir

Wow, that look like the best sounding Stax energizer


----------



## buzzlulu

I’m sorry however you denigrate Birgir and KG - and the Mjolinir Carbon and HeadAmp BHSE, and then show a picture of that????

You have to be kidding.


----------



## thinker

buzzlulu said:


> I’m sorry however you denigrate Birgir and KG - and the Mjolinir Carbon and HeadAmp BHSE, and then show a picture of that????
> 
> You have to be kidding.


Ordered the KG carbon ,delivery time is 1 -2 month let's see how different they are


----------



## Tugbars

Thinker didn't mention that Dima's Carbon is using 7$  ebay high voltage switchers which can handle 5 watts of output power and if they are forced to push 10 watts their main diodes simply blow up. it's also limited to 400V. I'm just importing the information from KG to here. 

However, I've heard good things about Dima's earspeakers. I've heard that they are as fast as 009 while trebles are sounding better and overall tonality is better than 009. (have less soundstage than 009)


----------



## thinker (Aug 16, 2019)

-


----------



## billqs

It's quite possible the Electrostatic phones are better than the amp. I use my Koss 950's exclusively with my KGsshv Carbon.


----------



## Mach3

I have to say the Koss 950 modded with decent thick earpads and the sealing. Scales really well with better electrostatic drivers.


----------



## thinker (Aug 17, 2019)

billqs said:


> It's quite possible the Electrostatic phones are better than the amp.





Tugbars said:


> Thinker didn't mention that Dima's Carbon is using 7$  ebay high voltage switchers which can handle 5 watts of output power and if they are forced to push 10 watts their main diodes simply blow up. it's also limited to 400V. I'm just importing the information from KG to here.
> 
> However, I've heard good things about Dima's earspeakers. I've heard that they are as fast as 009 while trebles are sounding better and overall tonality is better than 009. (have less soundstage than 009)


The high voltage switcher 7$ is running the fan so no need to buy a better one and the amp is better than the phones


----------



## billqs

Mach3 said:


> I have to say the Koss 950 modded with decent thick earpads and the sealing. Scales really well with better electrostatic drivers.


Would you mind pointing me to this mod?  Thanks!


----------



## bwck2000

thinker said:


> and a modified Canorum



I know an owner of phenomenon phones. I generally liked the headphone but he complained that the headphone makes a buzzing sound a lot even in normal volume listening, not to mention Large volume listening so he cannot listen to orchestral works with phenomenon phones .He said adjusting the DS gap makes the situation worst. While stax phone won't do this, I am curious what cause this defect?


----------



## bwck2000

Mach3 said:


> I have to say the Koss 950 modded with decent thick earpads and the sealing. Scales really well with better electrostatic drivers.



Congrats with your finding. Will the thick pads make the coloring of the sound darker?


----------



## chinsettawong

bwck2000 said:


> I know an owner of phenomenon phones. I generally liked the headphone but he complained that the headphone makes a buzzing sound a lot even in normal volume listening, not to mention Large volume listening so he cannot listen to orchestral works with phenomenon phones .He said adjusting the DS gap makes the situation worst. While stax phone won't do this, I am curious what cause this defect?



There could be some dust in the driver causing the noise.


----------



## bwck2000

chinsettawong said:


> There could be some dust in the driver causing the noise.



Perhap I used the wrong word, his exact wordings are " distortion when volume is turned up" , " cracking sound" and " severe fart" . I think he can distinguish noise caused by dust and this situation.

too small DS gap I guess ?


----------



## Mach3 (Aug 19, 2019)

billqs said:


> Would you mind pointing me to this mod?  Thanks!


Here are the few parts you need for the full mod.
-Stax Cable Mount 5 Pin Din Plug (I bought mine from Moon Audio)
-Heat shrink for the plug (Don't need this if you don't mind your adaptor looking shithouse)
-Vesper Audio angled earpad, mine are all lamb skin with memory foam. About 1 inche thick with thinnest side 3/4 of an inche

Steps to the MOD
1. Carefully remove the old earpads. Burn them to avoid temptation to put them back thinking you'll get a better sound.
2. Remove the foam that's covering the earspeaker. If you're careful you can undo this mod (No idea why you would want this)
3. Install the earpads with the thick side facing you as you put them on. (Refer to photo)
4. Cut the Koss 950 extension cable and solder on 5 pin Din. (Start up your car and drive over the Koss driver a few time. Because after you connect the Koss 950 to a better driver, you won't go back)
If your don't have soldering skill ask someone to help you or you can always buy them online

Foam cover





Optional seal the vent if you prefer a warmer sound. I like to leave them open. Do one side only, you notice the difference in soundstage also.




With foam removed




With foam intact




Completed











bwck2000 said:


> Congrats with your finding. Will the thick pads make the coloring of the sound darker?


Well that depends if you remove the foam that's covering the driver. If you remove them then no, I wouldn't call it dark just lift the needed bass a lil.

These are the two track I mainly use to audition the changes

Bass Test Track


Vocal Test Track


----------



## bwck2000

Mach3 said:


> Here are the few parts you need for the full mod.
> -Stax Cable Mount 5 Pin Din Plug (I bought mine from Moon Audio)
> -Heat shrink for the plug (Don't need this if you don't mind your adaptor looking ****house)
> -Vesper Audio angled earpad, mine are all lamb skin with memory foam. About 1 inche thick with thinnest side 3/4 of an inche
> ...



that thickness.... must be comfortable

putting a thick foam on an electrostatic driver will cover up details. Its a bad idea to put them on


----------



## Mach3

bwck2000 said:


> that thickness.... must be comfortable
> 
> putting a thick foam on an electrostatic driver will cover up details. Its a bad idea to put them on



Err... nope detail is there. I suggest you tried one side and get back to me in regards to covering up the details.
And yeah they comfortable as FFFFF


----------



## leilei787

Does anyone know how KGSSHV Sanyo different from regular KGSshv? And how is it compare to kgsshv carbon? Thanks


----------



## soren_brix

leilei787 said:


> Does anyone know how KGSSHV Sanyo different from regular KGSshv? And how is it compare to kgsshv carbon? Thanks


"Sanyo" referes to the 2SA1968 bjt manufactored by Sanyo, which has been obsolete for quite some years.
The specific BJT is used in the VAS current source in the KGSShv, as opposed to the fet 10m90 (manufactored by IXYS) being used in the "regular" KGSShv.
Some (including Kevin) has reported the A1968 to be sounding "a little sweeter".

The KGSShv is a four stage amp usually configured around 10mA. (max is <12mA)
The Carbon is a three stage amp usually configured to output current 15-20mA. (max is <25mA,)

Having fewer stages in the amp usually results in less complex distortion (less high order harmonics) which many finds pleasing.

The Carbon also features a more refined,powerful and more effecient Golden Reference PSU in comparison to the "old" KGSShv PSU or "Blue Hawaii" PSU.


----------



## Amish

I have a pair of angled leather pads being made for my ESP95 right now. I have been happy with the bass but I am not happy with the way the stock pads leave a huge gap open behind my ears. I'm worried it will darken the SQ of the headphones but we'll see when my pads arrive.

Truth be told I only use the ESP95x for gaming as I prefer my Stax headphones for music.


----------



## Dan Lee

Hey guys a while back I had mentioned that I was getting a tube preamp to pair with my Carbon to see if I could enhance the sound giving it a tubey tonality.  I ended up purchasing a WA22 and out of the box with the stock tubes I could easily tell that the tubes did infuse flavor to the sound, but it was a bit to thick and the soundstage was a bit closed in as well.  I got with Brent Jesse at audio tubes and picked up an upgraded NOS rectifier and driver tubes and acquired some great matched Sylvania NOS power tubes and my god the difference it has made is just what I hoped for and a bit more.  It certainly adds a bit more sweetness to the already sweet sounding 009S.  Clarity is still there showing almost as much detail.  Most importantly the soundstage has increased substantially and it sounds so 3dimensional now that I am looking around the room when certain noises appear in the track.  

I know many of you may think I should have just gone with a KGGG or a BHSE, but with this set up I can choose to run in SS as well when I want to extract as much detail as is possible.  Either way I figured I would share that here for any Carbon owners who may want to have the ability to alter their sound a bit from time to time.

Side note.  I purchased a set of Ether 2's again to run with the WA22 in hopes of using them as a compliment to the 009S.  Well that turned out to not work so well.  The 009S is just so many levels ahead that I couldn't bring myself to choose the E2's when I went to listen to music.  Electrostatics have pretty much ruined all other headphones for me.  That being said has anyone listened to and or compared the new L700MKII?  I liked the original L700's a lot, but hated the plastic yoke.


----------



## Amish

Dan Lee said:


> Electrostatics have pretty much ruined all other headphones for me.  That being said has anyone listened to and or compared the new L700MKII?  I liked the original L700's a lot, but hated the plastic yoke.



So true. I own the L700mkII but I never had the L700mkI so I can't compare.


----------



## Dan Lee

You like the MKII's from what I have read.  I am really curious how they compare to the 009/S as far as a decent option for a back up pair of stats.


----------



## Amish

I couldn't say from personal experience but according to reviews, the L700mkii is the Stax that sounds closest to the 009. I figure they would make a good back up for sure.


----------



## florence

I don't why but my blutack modded 007a with mjölnir KGSSHV doesn't sound to me exciting nowadays. I was on a vacation and got back home a couple of days ago and after an hour of listening session, I feel there is something wrong. I feel like there was a lot more detail when listening to music. Speaking of 007, after I've modded the phones there was immediate fart when I squeeze it on my head. Post moderation part was quite tedious so I haven't opened it for a while again but if someone tells me how to sort that out I'd be glad.


----------



## Scgorg

The port is simply a way to create a helmholtz resonance in the headphone, whether stax did this to get a certain tonality or to get pressure relief to avoid farts we can only guess. Blocking the port removes the helmholtz resonance peak and makes the headphone operate under pressure conditions for longer, hence better bass extension. The negative side is that the port was acting as a pressure relief and now it no longer works because it is airtight. You could try to undo part of the tack so there is a slight amount of air escaping. This shifts the helmholtz resonance lower so the extension should still be better than stock. Note since this resonance is not damped you will get a slight peak somewhere before the rolloff starts. If you have it mostly sealed I would guess somewhere in the high 20-low 30hz range.


----------



## bmichels (Aug 26, 2019)

*Selling my SR007 early MK1 *to pourchase à SR009s.  If someone is interested...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-stax-sr-007-mk1-rare-early-model-like-new.913164/

Indeed, I already have a SR009, and, since I want to listen with my wife, the combo SR009 + SR007 is not appropriate because of the difference in sensibility, hense in listening livel: either the SR009 is too loud or the SR007 is not loud enough.

So... I will purchase another SR009 to have booth listening at the sale volume level.


----------



## jgazal

alternatively, one could buy another - why not more powerful - amp and keep different flavors.


----------



## tumpux

I think the emphasis is in listening together..


and I am sure down the thread some will suggest, why not listen to speakers instead.


----------



## mulveling (Sep 1, 2019)

bmichels said:


> *Selling my SR007 early MK1 *to pourchase à SR009s.  If someone is interested...
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-stax-sr-007-mk1-rare-early-model-like-new.913164/
> 
> ...


I listen with my girlfriend a lot, and having an amp with 2 Stax jacks and both a 009 and 009S is freaking awesome. Most ladies don't have the patience or inclination to sit and listen tethered like this, but we both enjoy it a lot. I also have a very high-end 2ch setup that we primarily listen to, but even still sometimes the Stax just hits the spot!

Also my T2 has been out of commission for a bit, and also my hev90 balanced, so finally I dusted off my last remaining KGSShv - an older 500V IXYS implementation (on-board heat sinks), that was always my favorite of the KGSShv flavors despite not being as warm as the Sanyo builds. Wow, the KGSShv still rocks! I know it can't stand head to head with a T2, but now that it's been a while it sounds glorious in its own right. The 500V IXYS tonality is closer to what I deem "neutral", and not too far off the T2 in that respect. Its treble isn't subdued by any means, but it holds back that last bit of bite & energy that can make the Carbon too aggressive for a plain 009 (in some systems). Purk offered to loan me his Carbon, and I know it's better overall, but I think I'll be just fine getting reacquainted with this old friend.


----------



## zolkis

tumpux said:


> I am sure down the thread some will suggest, why not listen to speakers instead.



Perhaps to avoid disturbing others at given sound levels? 
Perhaps the kids are sleeping? 
Or they are listening to music on the terrace late night watching the moon-bathing sea and don't want to disturb the seagulls?
Or just find it more romantic how each one looks with headphones?  
I'm sure this can be meme-ified to infinity .
(BTW I mostly listen to speakers. That space and body... the sound massaging - or beating the hell out of - all your cells... However, I love my headphones, too.).


----------



## HiP1

Hi everyone,
I had a 404 with a SRM-006tA
I sold the 404 a few months back, and kept the amp thinking i would get a pair of L300 or L500 to try.
In the end, I'm not sure i'll try those anytime soon.
what is your advice abour the amp ? Should I keep it just in case ? Should I sell it and buy another one when i decide to try the Stax sound again ? 
the SRM-006tA is only taking up some space in our house, and I get some pressure to get rid of it from a significant person here


----------



## Amish

I'd keep it. One less thing to worry about if and when you get yer hands on another Stax headphones. Just pack it up and place it in the closet or some such place.


----------



## tumpux

I would sell it. 
It’s not that great.


----------



## HiP1

Thank you both, for your advice. I might need a third opinion to break the tie 
if I did sell it, what kind of price would be fair ?
I dont have the box anymore, it came with an extension cable, and a power converter for 220-230V in Europe.


----------



## Amish

I think it comes down to two things. 

1. Do you need the money?
2. Do you plan to buy Stax headphones again?

pretty easy decision I would think.


----------



## Jones Bob

HiP1 said:


> Thank you both, for your advice. I might need a third opinion to break the tie
> if I did sell it, what kind of price would be fair ?
> I dont have the box anymore, it came with an extension cable, and a power converter for 220-230V in Europe.



Sell it and build a DIY T2 to keep in the hall closet until you get the STAX bug again.


----------



## HiP1

@Amish
I don't really need the money, but it would come in handy to try new headphones 
I plan to try Stax again when I get more experience in the Audio game. For now, I can't really tell if the amp is even any good.

@Jones Bob 
that's an interesting idea, actually. maybe saving up for the cost of the materials over a long time, and when i finally have enough, that would mean I should try Stax again 
Thanks !


----------



## Amish

I have my Stax SRM-T1 for sale right now. But I replaced it with a Mjolnir Audio Octave III. I won't ever sell this one though. Its fantastic. Now that I have dipped my toes into Electrostatic I am selling a lot of my amps and headphones. My Stax L700 mkii is end game for me.


----------



## HiP1

looking at your gear list, I still have a long way to go before I reach that


----------



## Mach3

@Jones Bob that advice will hurt the hip pocket. DIY T2 build command around 10K these day. OUCH!
And to leave it in the closet is just down right wrong.


----------



## Ojisan

Mach3 said:


> @Jones Bob that advice will hurt the hip pocket. DIY T2 build command around 10K these day. OUCH!
> And to leave it in the closet is just down right wrong.



Maybe that's the point. By the time it comes out of closet, it might cost more to build. If that rate is better than the bank, why not?


----------



## HiP1

Mach3 said:


> @Jones Bob that advice will hurt the hip pocket. DIY T2 build command around 10K these day. OUCH!
> And to leave it in the closet is just down right wrong.



Thank you for your concern !
Actually, the way I took it was that, as it is costly, I can gather the elements over a long time, and by the time I have them all ready to asssemble, I should be ready to try Stax again


----------



## Amish

There are mods for the SRM-006tA as well. Should find them on the web no problem. Just a thought.


----------



## Jones Bob

HiP1 said:


> Thank you for your concern !
> Actually, the way I took it was that, as it is costly, I can gather the elements over a long time, and by the time I have them all ready to asssemble, I should be ready to try Stax again



It’s best to be prepared!


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Someone here to confirm that some old Stax amps are wired withe the obsolete US norm regarding XLR pins (hot on 3 instead of 2) ?
That's what I see on SRM-717, for example :






Or T1-W :






Thanks,

Ali


----------



## hypersonic (Sep 13, 2019)

Hi Stax fans,
I am on my search for the endgame, the very best headphone for classical music. What's on my mind are the SR-009 and Focal Utopia.
I don't have the chance to listen to neither of them, but based on the opinion on the internet the SR-009 is super fast, crazy revealing and a bit bright; exactly the sound I'd like!
The Utopia was described to have 009 level speed and all-rounded, balanced tone. (Which I don't know if I'd like, as my taste is very bright, clean treble, my current favourite is Beyer T1)
Both cans are regarded to be excellent with classical music. So I'm torn now because I can either get the Utopia and ready to roll with my current system, or spend double for the SR-009 and a mid-range amp (probably Woo Audio's GES or a SRM-006tS)
I believe many Stax fans here have rich experience with non electrostatic cans too.
How many of you think the 009 (or 009s) is the absolute best? Or you've heard even better?

Any advice would be appreciated!


----------



## silversurfer616

Have both and prefer my SR009S; Utopia is on the bright side but in a 'it makes me nervous' kind of way. Also, soundstage is too small for classical, orchestral work. Stax is faster and has better clarity/resolution.


----------



## Tugbars

hypersonic said:


> Hi Stax fans,
> I am on my search for the endgame, the very best headphone for classical music. What's on my mind are the SR-009 and Focal Utopia.
> I don't have the chance to listen to neither of them, but based on the opinion on the internet the SR-009 is super fast, crazy revealing and a bit bright; exactly the sound I'd like!
> The Utopia was described to have 009 level speed and all-rounded, balanced tone. (Which I don't know if I'd like, as my taste is very bright, clean treble, my current favourite is Beyer T1)
> ...



Don't shape your final opinion without trying Raal - Sr1a


----------



## -HaVoC-Tzu-

silversurfer616 said:


> Have both and prefer my SR009S; Utopia is on the bright side but in a 'it makes me nervous' kind of way. Also, soundstage is too small for classical, orchestral work. Stax is faster and has better clarity/resolution.



I have the Utopia, but I have heard the Voce and the Voce impresses me more (even though the Voce has a much more boring EQ than the Utopia ), still haven’t heard the SR-009S.


----------



## buzzlulu

I had a BRIEF listen to the VOCE (I own both the Utopia and 009S)
The VOCE did absolutely nothing for me

imho if you want a pair of Electrostatics get the brand which invented the genre


----------



## hypersonic

Tugbars said:


> Don't shape your final opinion without trying Raal - Sr1a


It's very intriguing indeed. I wish I had the opportunity to attend a show to try them all. There are a few others TOTL cans seems to be worthy contenders too.
The Raal...needs a 100-150 W speaker amp which I don't have. People already have speaker setup would have a much easier decision. But I'm not ready to buy a bulky, high power amp just for this.
On the other hand, Stax is very proven...If I end up buying one without any audition it will probably be a pair of Stax.


----------



## Jones Bob

hypersonic said:


> It's very intriguing indeed. I wish I had the opportunity to attend a show to try them all. There are a few others TOTL cans seems to be worthy contenders too.
> The Raal...needs a 100-150 W speaker amp which I don't have. People already have speaker setup would have a much easier decision. But I'm not ready to buy a bulky, high power amp just for this.
> On the other hand, Stax is very proven...If I end up buying one without any audition it will probably be a pair of Stax.



Schiit has prototyped and shown a dedicated amp specifically designed for powering the SR1A that directly drives the ribbon drivers without the usual amp interface box. It’s (for now) called the Jotunheim R and will available thru RAAL soon with an expected price of $999.


----------



## silversurfer616

Heard the Voce with Dave and BHSE and was left wanting, mainly because I prefer the SR009S with the Pavane and KGST...Voce on Dave was too 'digital'. The only headphone I heard and actually hanker for is the Susvara...to me better than ShangriLa sen and equal to SR009S...but that's my ears.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Sep 13, 2019)

I do like some classical, but not really on neutral and 'bright' headphones... Holst' Planets suite needs that massive low end and punchy, meaty brass. Much rather listen to Holst on my Porta Pros than SR-009s. Now EQ'd and modded SR-L300 Limiteds are just about the perfect choice for classical for me... low end thump, beautiful attack and punch of brass, great holographic sound field presentation, with very nice detail and separation of everything.


----------



## tabness

I had the Utopia and 009S at the same time but by the time my amp came in I had sold the Utopia so I didn't do any direct comparison but from what I remember they were very similar sound signature wise.

The 009S is not my favorite headphone though (CD3000 is).

From memory the Utopia strengths are slightly better imaging and impact and 009S strengths are a slightly better midrange and bigger soundstage. In terms of clarity both are basically the best I've heard slightly edging out the CD3000/R10. I can't actually give this to the 009S over the Utopia as from my memories it is really too close to call. I'd need to hear them both side by side again. Then again one of electrostatic technologies biggest strength is clarity so you can't go wrong with the Stax here.

Because I have the CD3000 and other dynamic headphones I don't miss aspects of the Utopia over the 009S but if I just had to choose between the two it would be harder. Maybe with the stuff I listen to (not classical) it would be the Utopia. Though it seems that the 009S strengths are better suited for classical.

Also if you like bright it seems the general impression of those who have heard both is to go with the 009 over the 009S (I haven't heard the 009).

The Utopia is easy enough to drive from a phone also and you aren't tied to an amp like with Stax. It is also lower maintenance and cheaper new. Used both the 009 and Utopia go for around $2000 USD but again you have to get an amp with the 009 (I could use the Utopia from my phone/computer/portable CD player no problem). I do think both headphones are overpriced though (like most top of the line headphones are these days)

My experience is you don't have to spend big bucks for an amp for the 009S though. I use a T1S and don't hear any of the purported sonic issues with an amp of its lower current/voltage at the volumes I listen to (no bass issues no treble issues and so on). This makes sense from a measurement perspective as the amp should stay well within its linearity at normal levels for almost anything you listen to (and I know Stax knows how to design a linear amp) and the stated 009/S impedance/sensitivity are just like Lambdas with the frequency response in the perceived loudness area actually being higher than the Lambdas. Just a caveat that this is a minority position on this forum though (and the other place) which generally seem to hold that the 009/S are harder to drive than Lambdas and scale better with amplification and so on.


----------



## hypersonic

VRacer-111 said:


> I do like some classical, but not really on neutral and 'bright' headphones... Holst' Planets suite needs that massive low end and punchy, meaty brass. Much rather listen to Holst on my Porta Pros than SR-009s. Now EQ'd and modded SR-L300 Limiteds are just about the perfect choice for classical for me... low end thump, beautiful attack and punch of brass, great holographic sound field presentation, with very nice detail and separation of everything.


Then we have quite the opposite taste. To me, the porta pros are all bass and nothing else. Luckily I don't really listen to Holst.


----------



## hypersonic

My mind is quite set on the 009 (non s) now. 
I think I'll start with a cheaper amp at the moment, but I can't decide between 353x and 006tS. (Browsing TOTL stuff made me numb with the pricing, they are still quite expensive!)
At this point I just want a neutral, authentic Stax sound. Would a 353x be adequate?


----------



## bmichels (Sep 14, 2019)

Now that my SR007 is sold, I have one SR009s on order to complement my SR009 for my BHSE. 

Indeed, I use to have 009 & 007 but, due to sensibility difference, the sould level difference was to big to be able to have 2 persons auditioning at the same time: one was to loud or one not loud enough !


----------



## HiP1

hypersonic said:


> My mind is quite set on the 009 (non s) now.
> I think I'll start with a cheaper amp at the moment, but I can't decide between 353x and 006tS. (Browsing TOTL stuff made me numb with the pricing, they are still quite expensive!)
> At this point I just want a neutral, authentic Stax sound. Would a 353x be adequate?



I have a SRM-006tA for sale, if you want


----------



## hypersonic

HiP1 said:


> I have a SRM-006tA for sale, if you want


Sorry, not a fan of used gear


----------



## HiP1

hypersonic said:


> Sorry, not a fan of used gear


no worries  if you change your mind, you can make an offer, I dont really know what it is worth


----------



## Tugbars (Sep 14, 2019)

driving 009 with an amp below kgsshv would be waste of potential for 009.

About comparison of 009 vs 009S: 009S has way better tonality than 009. 009 bass has... problems... serious problems in terms of tonality. 009 sounds too bright and that is giving a pseudo detail sensation. What really happening is that the listener gets super exposed to the trebles/mids and thinking the presentation is full of detail. 009S has all the detail which 009 has too.

A well driven 007 is way superior to underdriven 009 in many areas: 007s have significantly better bass and way better tonality overall. There is no frequency range where 007 fails to provide proper tonal balance and bloom to enjoy music. Rather than getting underdriven 009, i'd get 007 with KGSSHV. There are many people who prefer well driven 007 over well driven 009 too.

If you like bright sound signature, good soundstage and extremely detailed presentation, Raal Sr1a, is simply what the 009 should have been. They do everything what 009 does way better and effortlessly.

Everything written here are my personal subjective opinions. I own SR007 and i'm driving them with my KGSSHV Carbon. I had 009 and 007 for one week with me to decide which one i liked most. I am aiming to get SR1A as soon as possible.(I'm waiting for direct drive amp of Schiit)

Good luck!


----------



## hypersonic

Tugbars said:


> driving 009 with an amp below kgsshv would be waste of potential for 009.


I really appreciate the advice. However in my experience I regretted almost every time I buy something at the middle ground. I wish I have the thick wallet to afford the best but I don't right now, so I'd choose the cheap but okay option. I've been reading a lot of posts and it seems 353X is not really that bad. 


Tugbars said:


> If you like bright sound signature, good soundstage and extremely detailed presentation, Raal Sr1a, is simply what the 009 should have been. They do everything what 009 does way better and effortlessly.


I'm so intrigued by the Raal I actually read every pages on the SR1a thread!
Base on the impression they're pretty much perfect, but there are drawbacks I personally could not accept. 
I can't have a bulky power amp. People are saying to reach full potential you'll need more than150W per channel into 8 ohm and that's pretty much exclusive to gigantic "on the floor" amp.
I really doubt schiit can do it in small chassis with a small price tag. Heck there are members saying even the "reference" Benchmark AHB2 is lacking. 
Of course using a smaller amp is "alright", I can find very decent, reasonably priced 50Wpc amps that will work, but that's a similar situation as cheaper amp driving 009/S!

Also there are issues with the build. Some owners are getting funny smell from their headphones. And the mounting/wear system could certainly use some more refinement. 
Maybe the next iteration!


----------



## Tugbars (Sep 15, 2019)

Schiit Vidar + Raal SR1A is enough. Benchmark AHB2 or NAD amps are just overkill.

KGSSHV design is based on 353X, it's just a stronger version of it. 353X is quite good but as you turn the volume knob, the amp will get compressed and will start sound bad.


----------



## hypersonic (Sep 14, 2019)

Tugbars said:


> Schiit Vidar + Raal SR1A is enough. Benchmark AHB2 or NAD amps are just overkill.


Many members over at the SR1a thread seem to disagree. Well everyone has different standard on "enough". 


Tugbars said:


> when you turn the volume knob, the amp will get compressed and will start sound bad.


I don't quite understand how an amp will get "compressed", is this a flaw with the volume control? Or it is worse at certainly volume level?


----------



## catscratch (Sep 14, 2019)

Tugbars said:


> KGSSHV design is based on 353X, it's just a stronger version of it.



Wasn't the original KGSS published on headwize around 2000 or so? KGSSHV appeared around 2010. The 353X appeared in 2015.


----------



## tabness (Sep 14, 2019)

I tried to calculate electrostatic driver unit requirements a while back (posts by jcx were super helpful in getting started and I am fortunate enough to work with some audio engineers who were very helpful in filling in the gaps) so this may help:

First you need to know your listening level. Honestly you shouldn't be listening at or beyond 85 dB for extended periods (the OSHA requirements are a really minimum guideline here) and relaxed and safe listening levels are between 75 to 80 dB.

The peak/RMS ratio of audio depends on exactly what you listen to. Classical music has the most demanding peaks (18 to 22 dB crests) whereas modern compressed hip hop/pop/rock can have peaks as low as 3 to 5 dB and pre loudness war music is somewhere in between around 10 to 14 dB peaks.

SR 009 specs:
Electrostatic capacitance: 110 pF including cable
Impedance: 145 kΩ including cable at 10 kHz (the impedance would be at tens of megaohms at low frequencies and tens of kiloohms at higher frequencies)
Sound pressure sensitivity: 101 dB / input 100 Vrms / 1 kHz (I would assume the sensitivity would vary across the frequency response)
Maximum sound pressure level: 118 dB / 400 Hz

The 353X has a max output voltage of 400 Vrms (roughly 1130 Vpp). I believe Stax actually measures these whereas I think the Vpp given for the third party amps is generally derived and not measured.

How much voltage needed for something higher or lower than the stated sensitivity spec can be calculated by: 20 Log 10 (V / Vref)

The 353X would probably be in the range of the 313/323S/717/727II in terms of how much current it outputs (5.5 to 6.6 mA).

More current is needed to swing voltage at higher frequencies. Electrostatic transducers are pretty close (though cannot be exactly) pure capacitors so you can get pretty close to how much current is needed.

2 * pi * frequency * Vpp) / 1000000 = slew rate (in volts per microsecond)
slew rate * capacitance (F) = current needed (A)

You can do the calculations with your listening level and extra headroom required for peaks but given the 009 can do 101 dB at 1 kHz with 100 Vrms and has a pretty flat response (measurements) and almost anything anyone listens to audio wise would require only a full power bandwidth of 3 to 5 kHz the 353X really seems to have enough to drive the 009 unless you start listening to really loud levels.

Now you could say it isn't enough to reach "real life" levels (I have read that classical music can have peaks that hit 120 dB live) but in that case the 009 transducer itself falls short of being able to replicate real life volumes. Plus the musicians in orchestras generally wear ear protection themselves anyway so just turn it down lol

The 353X was going to be my amp of choice and I still might grab one in the future. I ended up going with a T1S first because I wanted a nineties Stax amp and I had hopes/plans (now thankfully materializing) of grabbing an Omega. Though now I realize I need the darker bronze faceplate version to match the Omega...

Even if you want to get a different amp later it wont be much of a resale hit on the 353X you'll lose like $300 (as compared to the hits of selling one of the multithousand dollar amps)

I remember reading somewhere (here or on the other place) that the 353X is basically a lower powered 717 with some transistors removed and that apparently according to Stax the KGSS is a copy of the 717 (I have read here that the 717 is a licensed version of the KGSS with a different output stage as well though).


----------



## Amish

hypersonic said:


> My mind is quite set on the 009 (non s) now.
> I think I'll start with a cheaper amp at the moment, but I can't decide between 353x and 006tS. (Browsing TOTL stuff made me numb with the pricing, they are still quite expensive!)
> At this point I just want a neutral, authentic Stax sound. Would a 353x be adequate?



Of those two amps I would grab the 353x.


----------



## statfi

hypersonic said:


> Many members over at the SR1a thread seem to disagree. Well everyone has different standard on "enough".
> 
> I don't quite understand how an amp will get "compressed", is this a flaw with the volume control? Or it is worse at certainly volume level?


The amp "gets compressed" when you ask it to put out more that it can.  It is not a characteristic of the volume control per se.  On the same recording, with a fixed volume setting, compression may happen on loud sections and not on soft ones.  Also the recording level matters and the output level of your source component.  The "amp will get compressed" is roughly the same as saying that the "amp runs out of power".  Ultimately, all amps will compress.  So the presumed qualifier of the statement is "at reasonable listening levels".


----------



## hypersonic

tabness said:


> I tried to calculate electrostatic driver unit requirements a while back (posts by jcx were super helpful in getting started and I am fortunate enough to work with some audio engineers who were very helpful in filling in the gaps) so this may help:
> 
> First you need to know your listening level. Honestly you shouldn't be listening at or beyond 85 dB for extended periods (the OSHA requirements are a really minimum guideline here) and relaxed and safe listening levels are between 75 to 80 dB.


Thank you for the informative post! Now I'm more confident with the purchase.
I don't listen at loud volume, perhaps even quieter than average, it seems the 353X will suffice. I don't pursue "real life" experience from headphones because it's impossible. In a concert hall, loud passages can shake the floor and the audience will feel the vibration with their bodies. 
That's part of the sensation which cannot be reproduced by headphones. 


statfi said:


> The amp "gets compressed" when you ask it to put out more that it can.  It is not a characteristic of the volume control per se.  On the same recording, with a fixed volume setting, compression may happen on loud sections and not on soft ones.  Also the recording level matters and the output level of your source component.  The "amp will get compressed" is roughly the same as saying that the "amp runs out of power".  Ultimately, all amps will compress.  So the presumed qualifier of the statement is "at reasonable listening levels".


Thanks for the clarification. I know this effect, although rarely find it on enthusiast grade gears. (If there is, it's subtle) I misunderstood Tugbars' post because he said whenever the volume knob is turned.


----------



## nemomec (Sep 16, 2019)

Tugbars said:


> About comparison of 009 vs 009S: 009S has way better tonality than 009. 009 bass has... problems... serious problems in terms of tonality. 009 sounds too bright and that is giving a pseudo detail sensation. What really happening is that the listener gets super exposed to the trebles/mids and thinking the presentation is full of detail. 009S has all the detail which 009 has too.



Not in my experience the SR-009 has for me a very deep going bass with a perfect structure without any distortion. SR-009 vs SR-009S, the SR-009 is more transparent (transparent means not brighter) as the newer version, the SR-009S is also good but has a modern more dynamic sound signature with a little bit hoter upper mids for me. I prefer for serious classic and singer/songwriter music the SR-009/BK, for electronic and pop music the SR-009S. Very important is that you have high quality devices (amp + source) for the SR-009! Unfortunatelly you can´t reach the top level with the Stax amps but a Stax SRM-T8000 with SR-009/S/BK is a good start.



Tugbars said:


> A well driven 007 is way superior to underdriven 009 in many areas: 007s have significantly better bass and way better tonality overall. There is no frequency range where 007 fails to provide proper tonal balance and bloom to enjoy music. Rather than getting underdriven 009, i'd get 007 with KGSSHV. There are many people who prefer well driven 007 over well driven 009 too.



Yes, i also prefer a SR-007 or a Advanced Lambda SR-L700 against a underdrivern SR-009, but if you have a serious SR-009 setup i think there is no reason to take a SR-007. I had this combo with many different SR-007 versions serveral times but in the end i was using the SR-007 maybe only in 1 of 10 sessions.


----------



## Tugbars (Sep 15, 2019)

hypersonic said:


> Thank you for the informative post! Now I'm more confident with the purchase.
> I don't listen at loud volume, perhaps even quieter than average, it seems the 353X will suffice. I don't pursue "real life" experience from headphones because it's impossible. In a concert hall, loud passages can shake the floor and the audience will feel the vibration with their bodies.
> That's part of the sensation which cannot be reproduced by headphones.
> 
> Thanks for the clarification. I know this effect, although rarely find it on enthusiast grade gears. (If there is, it's subtle) I misunderstood Tugbars' post because he said whenever the volume knob is turned.


,

yes, i should have said, as you turn the volume knob after a certain level. You'll get slightly lesser bass extention, lesser soundstage and trebles might sound a bit rolled off compared to using a powerful amp. Dynamic amplifiers the same voltage swing at 1khz and 20khz is easy. Same voltage swing for electrostatic amps is harder, you need certain amount of current output for that. 
I'll quote KG here:



> "350v power supplies requires 10.6ma of output current Most stax amps (t1,717,727,007t...) are 350v power supplies and can only supply about 7ma"





nemomec said:


> Not in my experience the SR-009 has for me a very deep going bass with a perfect structure without any distortion. SR-009 vs SR-009S, the SR-009S is more transparent (transparent means not brighter) as the newer version, the SR-009S is also good but has a modern more dynamic sound signature with a little bit hoter upper mids for me. I prefer for serious classic and singer/songwriter music the SR-009/BK, for electronic and pop music the SR-009S. Very important is that you have high quality devices (amp + source) for the SR-009! Unfortunatelly you can´t reach the top level with the Stax amps but a Stax SRM-T8000 with SR-009/S/BK is a good start.
> 
> Yes, i also prefer a SR-007 or a Advanced Lambda SR-L700 against a underdrivern SR-009, but if you have a serious SR-009 setup i think there is no reason to take a SR-007. I had this combo with many different SR-007 versions serveral times but in the end i was using the SR-007 maybe only in 1 of 10 sessions.



I have used Carbon to test both. 009 and 009S have better layering and wider soundstage but 007's tonality was better overall. It's a matter of taste i think.


----------



## tabness (Sep 15, 2019)

Tugbars said:


> ,
> 
> yes, i should have said, as you turn the volume knob after a certain level. You'll get slightly lesser bass extention, lesser soundstage and trebles might sound a bit rolled off compared to using a powerful amp. Dynamic amplifiers the same voltage swing at 1khz and 20khz is easy. Same voltage swing for electrostatic amps is harder, you need certain amount of current output for that.
> I'll quote KG here:



Those values seem to be calculated for both full voltage swing available by the amp and the full 20 kHz sine wave.

In real world usage the required output stage current would be far lower because most music power bandwidth would be in the range of 3 to 5 kHz (there was a study cited earlier in this thread that found one example of music requiring 15 kHz) and there shouldn't really be a need to swing that much voltage on the amp anyway (not to mention I have read that slew rate limitation distortion isn't the easiest to hear anyway).

Using 95 dB to 101 dB as the sensitivity of the 009 at 100 Vrms (as Stax measured at 1 kHz where there is a peak) the 353X at lower than the max output voltage (200 Vrms) would still give an extra 6 dB of headroom basically allowing for for 101 to 107 dB peaks which if you're listening close to the upper limits of reasonable average levels (75 dB to 80 dB) gives you 20 to 25 dB of headroom for peaks which covers the tough requirements of classical nevermind other stuff.


----------



## purk

Tugbars said:


> ,
> 
> yes, i should have said, as you turn the volume knob after a certain level. You'll get slightly lesser bass extention, lesser soundstage and trebles might sound a bit rolled off compared to using a powerful amp. Dynamic amplifiers the same voltage swing at 1khz and 20khz is easy. Same voltage swing for electrostatic amps is harder, you need certain amount of current output for that.
> I'll quote KG here:
> ...



More of a matchup and the tonality of the amp IMO.  I do enjoy the 009S and 007 more on the Carbon.  With the T2, I usually grab the 009 over the 007.


----------



## statfi

purk said:


> More of a matchup and the tonality of the amp IMO.  I do enjoy the 009S and 007 more on the Carbon.  With the T2, I usually grab the 009 over the 007.


Thanks for this post.  Can you give more particulars on why in each case?  Also, you didn't say it explicitly but do you also grab the 009 over the 009s with the T2?


----------



## Clsmooth391

Anyone looking to sell their Mjolnir KGSSHV Carbon, please drop me a message.


----------



## dgozalie

Hello

My friends makes a small review of Stax SRS-3100 consist of L300 and SRM-252S... check it out...

https://orronoco.blogspot.com/2019/09/stax-sr-l300-srm252s-electrostatic.html

thank you


----------



## ahmedie

Can I connect balanced DAC output to 323s RCA input ? I would like to connect ES100 balanced output to 323s RCA input ... I have read that 323s are essentially balanced amps (and all stax amps).


----------



## Eich1eeF

ahmedie said:


> Can I connect balanced DAC output to 323s RCA input ? I would like to connect ES100 balanced output to 323s RCA input ... I have read that 323s are essentially balanced amps (and all stax amps).


Of course you can. It'll just be single ended on the 323's input, and it'll convert that to balanced again. Google "STAX SRM323 schematic balanced input" to find a thread in the other place on how to mod a 323 to have balanced inputs, which might be easier nowadays if a volume pot from a 353 can be shoehorned in the 323, but the difference is probably going to be tiny anyway.


----------



## harris4crna

nemomec said:


> Not in my experience the SR-009 has for me a very deep going bass with a perfect structure without any distortion. SR-009 vs SR-009S, the SR-009 is more transparent (transparent means not brighter) as the newer version, the SR-009S is also good but has a modern more dynamic sound signature with a little bit hoter upper mids for me. I prefer for serious classic and singer/songwriter music the SR-009/BK, for electronic and pop music the SR-009S. Very important is that you have high quality devices (amp + source) for the SR-009! Unfortunatelly you can´t reach the top level with the Stax amps but a Stax SRM-T8000 with SR-009/S/BK is a good start.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, i also prefer a SR-007 or a Advanced Lambda SR-L700 against a underdrivern SR-009, but if you have a serious SR-009 setup i think there is no reason to take a SR-007. I had this combo with many different SR-007 versions serveral times but in the end i was using the SR-007 maybe only in 1 of 10 sessions.





Tugbars said:


> driving 009 with an amp below kgsshv would be waste of potential for 009.
> 
> About comparison of 009 vs 009S: 009S has way better tonality than 009. 009 bass has... problems... serious problems in terms of tonality. 009 sounds too bright and that is giving a pseudo detail sensation. What really happening is that the listener gets super exposed to the trebles/mids and thinking the presentation is full of detail. 009S has all the detail which 009 has too.
> 
> ...



I am honestly really enjoying my 009. I have listened to the 009S and Voce numerous times and I hear what people are saying in regards to the neutral tonality, but the difference is minimal. My 009 and BHSE combo is perfect. Also, I got the 009 for 2000 USD. Now, my hearing in high frequency sucks. I’m deaf after certain point, so perhaps I have a natural tonality, lol. 

when I lived in Japan I would go listen to Stax HP all the time and try to understand why people stated these were the best HP on the market. I just could not get into them. It was not until I heard the 009 on the BHSE I fully understood what people were talking about. These HP deserve the best and purchasing anything below limiting capacity is truly not doing you or the brand justice. Save the money and purchase equivalent equipment.


----------



## harris4crna (Sep 29, 2019)

Would I be a traitor by Stax enthusiasts if I purchase the Raal SR-1a to complement my electrostatic rig? What say you?


----------



## VRacer-111

harris4crna said:


> Would I be a traitor by Stax enthusiasts if I purchase the Raal SR-1a to complement my electrostatic rig? What say you?



Not unless you get rid of all your STAX gear and proclaim STAX sux and the RAAL SR1a is the one and only god to be worshipped...

I really want to listen to the SR1a. My E-stat rig would work perfectly for powering it as well being a stereo amp centered system based around the NAD C275BEE amp.


----------



## 1note

For those considering a DIY T2 I am selling mine and it appears in the Amplification For Sale Forum. The provenance is built by Kerry (his version 2) and @paradoxper kindly sold it to me in October 2017. It is a reluctant sale occasioned by my vinyl / speaker system improving (passive radiators to control a bass standing wave, adding super tweeters, custom speaker crossovers) to such an extent that I have hardly listened to my separate headphone system. It was a revelation for me on both 009 and 009s headsets. Thanks for reading.


----------



## Mach3

Bloody hell that thing belongs in a museum, such a work of art.


----------



## PolloLoco

I'm currently using an srm 300 which I enjoy for my Stax L300 and Koss Esp950.  But in order to experiment with different types of amps as input, I just ordered a Stax SRD7 mk2 Energizer, which should arrive in a couple days.

That said, I recently read that in the 70's Stax used to put a capacitor after the ballast resistor. This can cause damage to headphones over time by increasing the arcing risk.

I think the srd7 mk2 was made in 1985, is this a risk or had Stax fixed this issue already?

If its possible, does anyone have a photo to show what capacitor I should look for?

Thanks for any help you might provide.


----------



## dgozalie

Hello

this is a first modification of stax SRM-252S.. there still trial and error.. please read and give us any advice...

https://orronoco.blogspot.com/2019/09/simple-component-upgrade-stax-srm-252s.html

cheers


----------



## tumpux

dgozalie said:


> this is a first modification of stax SRM-252S.. there still trial and error.. please read and give us any advice...
> https://orronoco.blogspot.com/2019/09/simple-component-upgrade-stax-srm-252s.html



Interesting.. Please keep us posted on the mod result.
Nice to see someone from Indonesia plays with electrostatics.


----------



## Big Yoshi

If someone has a 007tii (120v) for sale, please leave me a message.


----------



## dgozalie

Hello

the update of the mod of SRM-252S is up to online now.... check it out

https://orronoco.blogspot.com/2019/10/simple-component-upgrade-stax-srm-252s.html

enjoy it...


----------



## Mach3

Here's mine.
I used 470uF instead with WIMA FKP2 as bypass cap.







 C4 & C5 change to WIMA, C37-C40 changed to higher voltage.





Mod is most noticeably with SR-007 as they start to give out further up the volume, than before the mods.


----------



## Tugbars (Oct 3, 2019)

I have both Carbon & SRM252S and i make my friends(who are interesting in buying estats equipment) listen to 007 through both amps to show them the difference between amps.

The loudness isn't the problem with SRM252S. I spent some time to compare both, here is my impressions:

-You can only hear main sound layers like the most apparent melodies in the song with SRM252s. Other layers get obscured, darkened or simply blended in with other sounds that you can't hear them anymore
-Soundstage is gone. You still can figure out that 007 has decent amount of soundstage but all there is only the ruins of the soundstage after the signal is destroyed by the amp.
-All you hear is mid-range. Other frequencies feel like they are diminished to sound like midrange sounds too.
-bass is boomy and totally out of control
-Sound is overall awfully distorted. awfully. I remember i was asking myself, "am i damaging the diaphragm right now? A driver isn't supposed to produce sounds like that."
-sound signature of 007 becomes totally dark.

With lambdas, the difference between 2 amps isn't this significant. Sometimes i wonder what causes such dramatic differences on 007 with different amps.


----------



## tigon_ridge

Tugbars said:


> I have both Carbon & SRM252S and i make my friends(who are interesting in buying estats equipment) listen to 007 through both amps to show them the difference between amps.
> 
> The loudness isn't the problem with SRM252S. I spent some time to compare both, here is my impressions:
> 
> ...



The 252s would struggle to move current through the 007, as it already does with the L300. I imagine that would be the cause for all of that awful distortion you heard. I occasionally hear them with the L300, when the music gets loud enough.


----------



## dgozalie

Hello all

here is the third part of the modification of SRM-252S... 

https://orronoco.blogspot.com/2019/10/simple-component-upgrade-stax-srm-252s_3.html

Enjoy it...


----------



## Mach3

Hi dgozalie
How old is your SRM-252s unit?
As I notice variance in mine and your circuit layout


----------



## Hubert481 (Oct 7, 2019)

Deleted - wrong thread - sorry


----------



## AtrafCreez

Hubert481 said:


> Bei definitiv 2-3 Metern ist das wohl die zuverlässigste und günstigste Lösung.
> 
> Nur würde dann diese Modell reichen und ist nochmal billiger.
> https://www.fressnapf.de/p/flexi-new-classic-gurt#pinkxs-3-m-
> ...


גנוג ודי בסר      Genug v'Dai besser


----------



## bmichels (Oct 7, 2019)

A new comer arrived today to complement my SR009 for listening in duo with the BHSE : a Stax SR009*s* 

  

It complement my beloved old HE500 driven by the EC445. I am now waiting for delivery of a ZMF Verite Closed.

Listening report  SR009 V/S SR009s  soon...


----------



## ahmedie

beyerdynamic released electrostatic headphone ! like looong time ago 
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/s686387820


----------



## bmichels (Oct 8, 2019)

Another upgrade to my BHSE/Stax SR009 system:  Just after the SR009S, I received the *new BHSE's Unbrilical cable* from Justin. 

it is much more flexible and thinner; and... it seems the sound is clearer and more dynamic (unless it is some placebo effect  )

Or... the reason may be that the bare copper wire in my (quite old) original cable were oxidated. This is why the new cable uses now silver plated wire instead that will never oxidize.


----------



## bmichels

Well ... here are *my initial listening impresions with the 009S v/s 009*: the 009s must be softer, because with him I can work while listening music which with the SR009 I can't ! OK ... I agree it is not a very acurate report ! 

More seriously, with the 009s, I really have no regrets for the 007 that I just sold : the 009s is more pleasant than the 009 without losing the accuracy of 009. It is Easier for long listening sessions with soften treble  .... the best of both worlds ...   (but may be the new unbilical cable also have an impact ? I have the 2 changes made in parallel, and I do not want to come back to the old cable just to see which change impact most ...)

note: I will receive soon a quad of NOS Mullard xf2 EL34 carefuly tested and matched for me.  I'm still waiting for them to finalize my "ultimate BHSE/Stax upgrade"


----------



## some1x

Ugh, my KGSS Grounded Grid just died... fuse blew and wont power up with new fuse. Didn't notice any smells or weird sounds from tubes. Is there any quick debugging that I can do?


----------



## patatchod

Hello, 

I've recently got a SRM-717 and wonder if it is necessary to re-cap it. It is about 15 years old. 
Do you think it would eb a great improvment for the sound ?
I had a look here : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/srm-717-re-cap.664534/ but spaceace1014 didn't said anything about the sund after he changed the capaitors...*https://www.head-fi.org/members/spaceace1014.355551/*


----------



## JimL11 (Oct 11, 2019)

patatchod said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've recently got a SRM-717 and wonder if it is necessary to re-cap it. It is about 15 years old.
> Do you think it would eb a great improvment for the sound ?
> I had a look here : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/srm-717-re-cap.664534/ but spaceace1014 didn't said anything about the sund after he changed the capaitors...



Replacing electrolytic caps in old electronics is more about reliability than sonics. The life expectancy of consumer grade electrolytic capacitors is around 15-20 years. After that the failure rate goes up significantly. It's a bit like changing the oil in your automobile - think of it as routine maintenance to prevent problems down the line. Paying for a set of replacement caps is significantly cheaper than paying to repair a blown amp. Sound may or may not improve depending on how much the caps have deteriorated.

Also, modern electrolytics have decreased in size for the same capacity, so the large PS caps could be replaced with with caps having the same size and voltage rating but higher capacitance. That could improve the sound.


----------



## patatchod

Thanks for your answer ! I like it


----------



## BreadMaster

bmichels said:


> Well ... here are *my initial listening impresions with the 009S v/s 009*: the 009s must be softer, because with him I can work while listening music which with the SR009 I can't ! OK ... I agree it is not a very acurate report !
> 
> More seriously, with the 009s, I really have no regrets for the 007 that I just sold : the 009s is more pleasant than the 009 without losing the accuracy of 009. It is Easier for long listening sessions with soften treble  .... the best of both worlds ...   (but may be the new unbilical cable also have an impact ? I have the 2 changes made in parallel, and I do not want to come back to the old cable just to see which change impact most ...)
> 
> note: I will receive soon a quad of NOS Mullard xf2 EL34 carefuly tested and matched for me.  I'm still waiting for them to finalize my "ultimate BHSE/Stax upgrade"


Lol,  you're not done until getting the new omega flagship.


----------



## beholdclarity

Heyho 

I just bought l700 earpads to upgrade my l300 limited.
Unfortunately they don’t fit. It seems the pegs are little shorter or there is some obstruction.

Am I doing it wrong? Or do I need other l700 pads? It seems the mk ii l700 utilizes different earpads than the mk i. Is that right?


----------



## VRacer-111

I had same fit issue with L700 pads on both my L300 and L300 Limited... would not stay put whatsoever, just come right out. Fixed by actually carefully removing the L700 leatherpad from its plastic base with pegs and switching it over to the L300 plastic base (after removing the L300 pads from its base). Not difficult just somewhat tedious to do.


----------



## beholdclarity

Got it! I had to fiddle out the plastic backing of my original pads and insert them into the l700 pads


----------



## beholdclarity

One more stupid question:

My 353x has a RCA out. What would one use that for?
What could I possibly feed my 353x to, other than a pair of stax headphones?


----------



## nileppezdel77

beholdclarity said:


> One more stupid question:
> 
> My 353x has a RCA out. What would one use that for?
> What could I possibly feed my 353x to, other than a pair of stax headphones?



It's a parallel out. It's just to allow you to chain equipment by sending the signal through to the next piece of equipment. My DAC has only one output, so I was running RCA to my Stax energizer and then out to my headphone amp. Also, because it's passive, you don't need to have the energizer on for it to pass through.


----------



## beholdclarity (Oct 16, 2019)

VRacer-111 said:


> I had same fit issue with L700 pads on both my L300 and L300 Limited... would not stay put whatsoever, just come right out. Fixed by actually carefully removing the L700 leatherpad from its plastic base with pegs and switching it over to the L300 plastic base (after removing the L300 pads from its base). Not difficult just somewhat tedious to do.



Update on my upgrade session.
So I was switching out the L300 ltd earpads with the L700 pads. The operation was easy enough, once I figured out I had to switch the plastic bases on the pads.
The comfort is noticeably better. I didn't have problems with the L300 ltd but the L700 pads feel smoother, softer and more premium. That, I like.

The L700 pads are quite a bit thicker, thus they increase the distance to the speakers creating a little more sense of space. The ear speakers seem wider now.
I liked how the L300 ltd had a very lively, sparkly -almost tingly, but never harsh- treble. Unfortunately, I have to crank up the volume a bit to get similar results with the new pads.
They sound much smoother and more laid back at the cost of detail/speed in the treble. It's like solid state vs tube, I guess.

To further elaborate, the L300 Ltd hit every note harder, strings are cleaner up top and the bass is tighter, with the stock pads. This for me has become “the stax magic”. The L700 pads take away a bit of that magic. Not enough to ruin them, but it’s a 200 usd trade-off that I see no point in.

I'll stick with the L300 ltd earpads and keep it completely unmodified. I guess I can't improve perfect


----------



## afgmjkl (Oct 17, 2019)

New driver units announcement.

SRM-700T,SRM-700S

https://stax-international.com/products/srm-700t/
https://stax-international.com/products/srm-700s/


----------



## Soundwave76

Anybody know what's new in these?


----------



## arielext (Oct 17, 2019)

For those that prefer English:
700S: https://stax-international.com/products/srm-700s/
700T: https://stax-international.com/products/srm-700t/


----------



## BreadMaster

Hot dam!!!   New Stax Omega coming boys!


----------



## afgmjkl

BreadMaster said:


> Hot dam!!!   New Stax Omega coming boys!



I don't know if new Omega will come out because I haven't heard anything about it recently.
So please don't get your hopes up.


----------



## JimL11

No idea about the 700S amp, but the 700T amp seems to be the same circuit as the T1/006 circuit going back to the 1990s, except using a 6SN7 tube instead of the 6CG7/6FQ7. The 6SN7 has the same specs as the 6CG7/6FQ7 with the exception of slightly increased plate dissipation of the 6CG7 (5.7 watts combined) vs the 6SN7 (5.0 watts combined), although the 6SN7GTA/B has increased plate dissipation (7.5 watts combined). So it's just a slightly different flavor sound -really lazy "engineering," if you can even call it that, since you can do the same thing by using a 6CG7 to 6SN7 tube adapter plug. Also, I'm not sure why they are bragging about using WIMA capacitors since the T1/006 circuit is DC coupled.

Unfortunately, Stax has not seen fit to update the output section, which still uses resistor loads rather than the constant current sources that Stax uses in their solid state amps, so the drive capability remains significantly worse (340 VRMS at 1 kHz) compared to their solid state designs (450VRMS at 1 kHz). Substituting a constant current load for a resistor load in the output section would more than double the effective output capability while decreasing distortion. It's what I did with my SRM-T1 mod.


----------



## arnaud

Fujiya announced msrp is ~3kUSD for either version (295kJPY domestic)


----------



## Jones Bob (Oct 17, 2019)

I want one of the ALPS R27 dual concentric shaft 4 gang volume/balance potentiometers in either amp.


----------



## BreadMaster

arnaud said:


> Fujiya announced msrp is ~3kUSD for either version (295kJPY domestic)


3k USD? Bwahahah!!  A used Kgsshv Carbon is better


----------



## Sound Eq (Oct 18, 2019)

so what is special bout those new amps, and r they really 3k usd


----------



## Tachikoma

Just wondering, has anyone tried rolling ZMF pads with the SR007?


----------



## nileppezdel77

Tachikoma said:


> Just wondering, has anyone tried rolling ZMF pads with the SR007?



I have a few different ZMF pads, I could give it a shot. The Auteur pads look very similar to stock.


----------



## nileppezdel77

Tachikoma said:


> Just wondering, has anyone tried rolling ZMF pads with the SR007?



I just put my lambskin (unperforated) Eikon pads on my 007 Mkii. The pads feel like nicer leather, have a smaller ear opening, are shallower, and include a sewn in piece of fabric that covers the middle. I attached them with the existing Stax piece with the metal rod on it. My most immediate impression is that the seal is not as good. They don't feel like they fit properly on my head. Maybe the Ori pads would be better? I don't have any Ori pads. They feel like better leather. As for how they change the sound: Treble is a bit more recessed, doesn't sparkle like it was before - maybe the extra fabric dampening? The bass response has less rumble to it, sounds muddy. I'm really not a fan. It really makes the headphones sound... boring? Muted? even the soundstage is screwed up - much closer to the head. I love these pads on my Emu-Teak, but they suck in this application. 20 minutes is all I listened to them with.


----------



## Tachikoma

nileppezdel77 said:


> I just put my lambskin (unperforated) Eikon pads on my 007 Mkii. The pads feel like nicer leather, have a smaller ear opening, are shallower, and include a sewn in piece of fabric that covers the middle. I attached them with the existing Stax piece with the metal rod on it. My most immediate impression is that the seal is not as good. They don't feel like they fit properly on my head. Maybe the Ori pads would be better? I don't have any Ori pads. They feel like better leather. As for how they change the sound: Treble is a bit more recessed, doesn't sparkle like it was before - maybe the extra fabric dampening? The bass response has less rumble to it, sounds muddy. I'm really not a fan. It really makes the headphones sound... boring? Muted? even the soundstage is screwed up - much closer to the head. I love these pads on my Emu-Teak, but they suck in this application. 20 minutes is all I listened to them with.



Interesting, someone told me that Auteur pads (perforated and unperforated) work really well though.


----------



## nileppezdel77

Tachikoma said:


> Interesting, someone told me that Auteur pads (perforated and unperforated) work really well though.



I have perforated Auteur pads, I could give it another go. They're the same thickness as the Eikon ones, but the openings are a bit bigger, more like the stock pads. I wonder how necessary that spring loaded grill thing is. Maybe I'll try removing that too.


----------



## Tachikoma (Oct 22, 2019)

The spring helps the pad rotate and slightly increases the height of the pad. I'm not using it (I prefer how it sounds without the spring) but some people think its important.

Also, the O2 pads have this "double lining" to fit the spring and still maintain a seal. With 3rd party pads its probably better to get rid of the spring.


----------



## nileppezdel77

Tachikoma said:


> The spring helps the pad rotate and slightly increases the height of the pad. I'm not using it (I prefer how it sounds without the spring) but some people think its important.
> 
> Also, the O2 pads have this "double lining" to fit the spring and still maintain a seal. With 3rd party pads its probably better to get rid of the spring.



The ZMF pads still got a seal, I think the bigger problem was the smaller ear opening and the double layer of fabric covering. Forgot my Auteur pads at home this morning (Stax setup is at the office because there aren't cats leaving hair everywhere here), but I do want to try it without the spring and with the bigger opening. Plus, perforated and suede. Should make a pretty big difference.


----------



## adrenalight

Hello friends, I have some question regarding the Sr007 version. I've recently purchased an used 007A locally, and the previous owner has lost all the paperwork, original box, and even peeling off the serial sticker on the headphone. The headphone condition is mint though. It does have the Stax fart, and I'm sure that the previous owner has not modded them in anyway. Can someone share the insight to distinguish which version I got? Got really confused with the whole sz2 3 etc. thingy.


----------



## Scgorg

If it farts then the front volume is sealed. Since you are 100% certain the headphone is unmodded this means that you have a 007mk1. Does it have champagne/brown-ish pads and headband or black pads and headband? If black it is a late mk1 and if brown/champagne colored it is early mk1.


----------



## adrenalight (Oct 24, 2019)

The headband and pads are black. It has a marking on top said SR007-A, and purchased in Japan though. And the housing is silver not champagne, so I don't think that it is a MK1. My friend used to have a Mk1 and it looks different


----------



## adrenalight

Additional information: it was purchased new in Japan, 2016. The previous owner was the only owner and did not mod the headphone in anyway.


----------



## Scgorg

How easily does it fart then? It should strictly speaking not fart if it was bought in 2016 due to the porting, though you can always force it with enough pressure.

Edit: If it was bought new in japan in 2016 you most likely have the latest version unless the shop he bought it from had some decently old stock. Commonly referred to as MK2.9


----------



## adrenalight

Just a little push on the cup while plugged in and the amp is on, relatively same as the previous lambdas I owned. I didn't know that it was a MK2.9. How is that version differ from the mk2.5?


----------



## Scgorg

According to Spritzer the main difference between MK2.9 and 2.5 is superior midrange reproduction in favour of 2.9. Commonly said to be the best version of 007.


----------



## adrenalight

Does it benefit from the blu tack mod? The headphone sounds better than other Mk2/007A I've previously listened to, may be due to the version differences. The mid bass is still kinda too much liking however.


----------



## Tugbars (Oct 24, 2019)

Since 3 years, all sr007s are mk 2.9.


----------



## georgep

Scgorg said:


> According to Spritzer the main difference between MK2.9 and 2.5 is superior midrange reproduction in favour of 2.9. Commonly said to be the best version of *007a/MK2*.



Fixed that for you, as that is only in relation to iterations of the 007a/007Mk2.


----------



## georgep

Tugbars said:


> Since 3 years, all sr007s are sz3.



sr007Mk2 has been sz3 since 2007. sr007a (the domestic Japan version of the Mk2) used sz2 serials for quite some time - not sure about what is being used currently - so is what you are saying in relation to the sr007a now *also* being sz3?


----------



## adrenalight

so it is safe to say that mine is the mk2.9/sz3 then. Does it benefit much from the bass port mod? If it could improve on the mid bass hump it will be perfect.


----------



## divasson

Hi,

As I had to repair a couple of old Stax Lambdas, broken on the side "D" piece, I have created a 3D-printed piece:







to enable some movement, I have created the axis as a separate part printed _inside_ the other:





You can find the part in eBay or in a webshop:  www.thecalculatorstore.com/Stax-Lambda-headband-side


----------



## BreadMaster

Any perceivable difference between the SR-009BK and the vanilla 009?


----------



## bmichels

I have ordered a quad NOS Mullard xf2 EL34 for my BHSE.  

To make a perfect matched set, my tube supplier needs few infos about the BHSE:   

I already got the infos "plate voltage is 400v, current is 18-20mA, EL34 operates in triode mode" but... I miss the  *" bias voltage value" for the BHSE*   Does someone know it ?


----------



## Scgorg

Bias voltage as in the bias supplied to the diaphragm? That would be 580V.


----------



## bmichels

Scgorg said:


> Bias voltage as in the bias supplied to the diaphragm? That would be 580V.



no, i do. It believe so. On my tube tester I can adjust bias voltage from -16v to -60v and it recommande -36v for EL34.  But may be the BHSE uses another value.


----------



## bmichels

OK, so I got the info.  Justin from headAmp suggests to use *Bias Voltage between -25v to -30v for matching tubes for the BHSE.*


----------



## ahmedie

georgep said:


> sr007Mk2 has been sz3 since 2007. sr007a (the domestic Japan version of the Mk2) used sz2 serials for quite some time - not sure about what is being used currently - so is what you are saying in relation to the sr007a now *also* being sz3?



I heard the sz2 at yodobashi in yokohama shop, it was so good sounding headphone indeed !! I thought the bass quantity and quality wise was crazy good ... the demo headphone looked really old


----------



## DelsFan (Nov 6, 2019)

oneguy said:


> Unfortunately I only had 3 nights with the amps before leaving on a 2 week vacation so these impressions as preliminary. Also, I only have an L700 so extrapolate what you will from this for a 009...
> 
> GG vs BHSE:
> I have heard the BHSE but unfortunately it wasn’t through an L700 so I feel like it would an apples and oranges comparison. I heard the BHSE through the 009 which I didn’t care for at all but I find the same issue with the 009 through Stax amps too so I feel like it’s the headphones fault. I have also heard the Voce through the BHSE. The problems I have with that combination were at the opposite end of the spectrum with a very heavy emphasis on the lose frequencies and  very little sound up top.
> ...



Is it June yet?  

I tried to read a lot of posts, and a lot of your posts, but didn't see that you got back to specifically comparing the KGGG and BHSE.  I've been researching for too long, and buying a few things this year to try.  Been to a lot of headphone meets; it's time to settle in on some type of end-game system.  But not a T-2, yet.  I've been trying the MySphere headphones and like them a lot, currently trying to make them comfortable on my head for long listening sessions (got them on my head now, not plugged in, with a little strategic experimental padding).

One conclusion I've reached: after hearing the MySpheres I can't go back to dynamic/planer designs.
Another: While the Raal ribbons might be great after the Jot-R is released, I'd want a tube-based preamp in the chain, or tube buffer, necessitating another power cord, interconnect, some more vibration isolation...  I'm just not into that; I've got enough entanglement as it is!


One day when I get caught up with everything else, in 2025, I'll hang some rods/dowels from the ceiling, using cotton or silk thread, and get rid of the broken but quite strategically re-purposed clothes rack.

I originally decided against the SR-009 system because I was afraid (based on the experience of others) they would end up being too clinical.

However, now I've come to these two (or more) conclusions and would be glad to hear people's advice:
1) With either the BHSE or the KGGG, surely I can do a very minimal amount of tube rolling to suit my listening tastes.  I've been into high-end audio for 40 years; I like well-produced music and don't care if I miss out on the last 5% of bass extension.  I do want to be "involved", at the small expense of detail if absolutely necessary - hence my love of tubes.
2) While an electrostatic setup will preclude using its amplifier for other duties, that can be an advantage (no temptation to have a pair or two of planers and a pair or two of dynamics laying around for mood swings!).
3) Lastly, the idea of a T-2 in the future is appealing, if only for something to look forward to later.  If I start wondering if the 009s with one of the two aforementioned amps is "sufficient" or if I would have been happier with something else (Raal or MySphere), there is no wondering if one is fortunate to be able to just order a T-2 instead, correct?

Comments will be appreciated; is there much between the BHSE or KGGG; are there any advantages of one over the other?  If I find a real good used sample of either, by a good builder, just buy it and enjoy?  Surely I can do some tube rolling to suit, while still not "ruining" the sound?


----------



## nanosword (Nov 6, 2019)

When people say SR-009 too clinical and too bright I thought it will be no soul withit  and harsh  .

But when I get this headphone with kgsshv carbon (birgir/mjolnir-audio)  it is the the most musicality headphone .

 to get the most of this headphone you need rca/xlr to brings warmth and color to the  009 or 007 because it is really natural and there is no any color.
 you have the ability to color your headphone from scratch using your best cables or tube any thing you prefer .

When I say natural not the amps or cables brings natural ability to the stax it is the sound signature of the headphone it is the driver of stax being natural.

how I hear 009  a lot of details and best image you can get flexible sound stage a lot of air between instruments and most transparent headphone .
not harsh not too bright .

please don't say there is no bass to this headphone because I can get the amount of bass that what I like to enjoy .

did I forget to mention it is freaking speedy active dynamic  headphone ?


Cheers,


----------



## DelsFan (Nov 6, 2019)

nanosword said:


> ...Now I hear 009  a lot of details  .  .     and best image  .  .          you can get flexible sound stage  .  .         a lot of air between instruments   .  .           and most transparent headphone .  .        not harsh   .  .           not too bright...
> Cheers,


Thank your for your thoughts!
I think surely with minimal tube rolling I'll be able to enjoy the KGGG or BHSE with SR-009s and be happy for a long while.
If I become dissatisfied I'll commission a T2.
If I grow weary of that I'll find another hobby.  Or, heaven forbid, go to a speaker setup.


----------



## bmichels

nanosword said:


> When people say SR-009 too clinical and too bright I thought it will be no soul withit  and harsh  .
> 
> But when I get this headphone with kgsshv carbon (birgir/mjolnir-audio)  it is the the most musicality headphone .
> 
> ...



Wait till you try the SR009S .  .   Even more musical !  ( I have booth: 009 & 009S with the BHSE)


----------



## VandyMan

bmichels said:


> Wait till you try the SR009S .  .   Even more musical !  ( I have booth: 009 & 009S with the BHSE)



If you had to pick only one to keep, which would it be?


----------



## bmichels

VandyMan said:


> If you had to pick only one to keep, which would it be?



009S : it is a perfect compromioze between 009 and 007


----------



## oneguy

DelsFan said:


> Is it June yet?
> 
> I tried to read a lot of posts, and a lot of your posts, but didn't see that you got back to specifically comparing the KGGG and BHSE.  I've been researching for too long, and buying a few things this year to try.  Been to a lot of headphone meets; it's time to settle in on some type of end-game system.  But not a T-2, yet.  I've been trying the MySphere headphones and like them a lot, currently trying to make them comfortable on my head for long listening sessions (got them on my head now, not plugged in, with a little strategic experimental padding).
> 
> ...



Those plans ended up being scrapped because I couldn’t get everyone together in June and I ended up moving from
Japan in July :/


----------



## DelsFan

oneguy said:


> Those plans ended up being scrapped because I couldn’t get everyone together in June and I ended up moving from
> Japan in July :/


I understand.  One day (a decade or two back) I was minding my own business, two days later I was quitting my job and planning a move to England!
It seems the BHSE and KGGG are very similar, since Kevin designed both of them.  Do you know what some of the minor differences are?  I see you still have the KGGG, if you were starting from nothing and going to build one of the two, is that the one you'd stick with?


----------



## oneguy

DelsFan said:


> I understand.  One day (a decade or two back) I was minding my own business, two days later I was quitting my job and planning a move to England!
> It seems the BHSE and KGGG are very similar, since Kevin designed both of them.  Do you know what some of the minor differences are?  I see you still have the KGGG, if you were starting from nothing and going to build one of the two, is that the one you'd stick with?



I bought my KGGG from Soren so I cant comment on the efforts involved in building between the two. One the price front, it was much cheaper to have one built by him than to get a BHSE from HeadAmp. If I had to do it over again I would still stick with the KGGG build.


----------



## phaeton70

I had a BHSE for more than 1Y, and now I'm enjoying a KGGG (Soren build). 
me too if I had to choose again would stick with KGGG. 
tube wise, I largely prefer the KGGG with the JJ 6CA7 over the SED =C= EL34 and the XF2, but this of course will depend on personal taste.


----------



## DelsFan

oneguy said:


> ...If I had to do it over again I would still stick with the KGGG build.


Thanks very much.

And dang, I sure wish I hadn't clicked, out of curiosity, here:  FS: Topaz Transformer      https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-new-topaz-91091-31-isolation-transformer.895398/

Or then here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/top...ansformers-for-affordably-clean-power.857448/

I have a dedicated power line coming from my circuit-breaker box directly to my IsoTek Sirius EVO3 (by directly, I mean no duplex receptacle in-between but the "cord" terminates at the IEC plug at the power conditioner).  But I know I've still got some deficiencies with my AC setup.

PM Sent


----------



## florence

Any recommendations regarding suitable DAC for  SR007A mk2 blutack mod & KGSSHV (mjölnir)?

I've been using ifi idsd bl label with a neutrik rca to xlr adapter. Still, I wonder whether getting budget friendly balanced dac would be significant difference in terms of sound quality overall. Thanks!


----------



## Tugbars

florence said:


> Any recommendations regarding suitable DAC for  SR007A mk2 blutack mod & KGSSHV (mjölnir)?
> 
> I've been using ifi idsd bl label with a neutrik rca to xlr adapter. Still, I wonder whether getting budget friendly balanced dac would be significant difference in terms of sound quality overall. Thanks!



Denafrips Ares II is good as entry level DAC.


----------



## ahmedie (Nov 7, 2019)

florence said:


> Any recommendations regarding suitable DAC for  SR007A mk2 blutack mod & KGSSHV (mjölnir)?
> 
> I've been using ifi idsd bl label with a neutrik rca to xlr adapter. Still, I wonder whether getting budget friendly balanced dac would be significant difference in terms of sound quality overall. Thanks!



Get topping D70 dual! akm dac work wonderfully with stax! But r2r is also very good ... stax are very revealing of source you will definitely hear a sizable difference, for me i preferred cheaper dac over expensive one haw


----------



## ahmedie (Nov 21, 2019)

I bought mjolnir srd 7 and my short impression is this is very revealing device of connected amplifier. I tried with following amplifier:

1- icepower 1200as poweramp (1000$): bright treble with high resolution, super speedy and tight bass with super fast decay and little punch. transparent mid, and congested sound stage, very analytical sound unpleasant typical class D sound.
2- bladelius tyr 2/II (3500$): very extended smooth highs, high resolution. little thin sounding mid. bass is tight and bigger sounding than mid/high but also punchy with good quantity and very good details too. sweet sound overall. more open than above amp but still little congested sound stage.
3-denon 1600ne(1000$): rolled off treble, good details, hug sound stage, like literally 2 x times my 323s amplifier. not tightest bass and looser but very good quantity. super warm sound.

srd 7 is really transparent transformer and the only problem is congested sound stage, as only amp no.3 was able to pull out big sound stage. no.1 and no.2 amp was struggling to expand sound stage beyond headphone physical shape. imaging is excellent though. no.2 amp sound wonderful as the price tag would suggested only sound stage was little smaller than 323s size, and I love sound stage so I will keep looking ! Also driver control is miles over my 323s, as each sound is a pure reflection of the amp connected to.

Edit: resolved congested sound-stage problem by reversing plus/minus speaker cable since i had phase issues !


----------



## patatchod

florence said:


> Any recommendations regarding suitable DAC for  SR007A mk2 blutack mod & KGSSHV (mjölnir)?
> 
> I've been using ifi idsd bl label with a neutrik rca to xlr adapter. Still, I wonder whether getting budget friendly balanced dac would be significant difference in terms of sound quality overall. Thanks!


I use a NAD M51 to feed my SRM717 & SR007Mk2 modded. I've compared the NAD to my SP1000SS and the difference is clearly for the NAD. In fact, as said before, the SR007Mk2 is a very good revelator of the source level that feed it.


----------



## florence

Thanks a lot for all who quoted my post. I'll check some more and added those recommended ones to my list.


----------



## szymonsays

I'm awaiting a new set of the black SR-007 from a UK distributor. I noticed this video was put up on Stax. Either he has really small hands, or the pads actually look bigger than i remember when i had an SR-007 last year? lol


----------



## arielext

Looks fine to me. Learned a bit more about these pads by watching this.


----------



## CJG888

I just resurrected my old 202s, and was dismayed to find that the foam under the ear pads had crumbled and ended up under the stator. As a long-term Martin Logan owner, I VERY GENTLY vacuumed the stators, using a low power setting and holding the nozzle AWAY from the drivers (about 1cm or so). All of the contaminants appear to have been removed, and the membranes seem intact (on visual inspection). I have ordered a spare set of pads and foams, and am looking forward to trying them again. If they don’t work, I fear that I may need to replace them....


----------



## kh6idf (Nov 13, 2019)

Speaking of 202's, I had my plastic headband break recently.  I ordered a replacement headband assembly and upon installing the earspeakers into the yokes on the new headband, one of yokes had the little pin break off that goes into the earspeaker body - D'oh!

I still had two good yokes on the broken headband, if only I could get one off I could swap it with the new one with the broken pin.  Upon careful examination, there is a tiny steel roll pin securing the yoke into the headband.  After some trial and error I discovered a straight section of a large paper clip will thread through this roll pin, and if the end of the paper clip is bent at a 20 degree or so angle, pulling the clip back out will drag the roll pin out with it!  Then clip off the bent end and the roll pin can be pulled off.

Once the replacement yoke is inserted, putting the roll pin back is much easier than removing it.  Just a pair of needle nose pliers will do the job.

Here is a picture showing what the yoke and roll pin look like when they are removed:


----------



## CJG888

Could you please tell me which way round the pads on the 202s should go. I didn’t notice that they were angled when I removed the old ones...

Presumably the thicker side goes at the back?


----------



## Scgorg

Correct, thick part of pad goes on thin side of the earcup and the thin side goes on the thick part of the earcup. The end result should be that the earcup+pad looks somewhat rectangular.


----------



## CJG888

Thanks. That’s what I thought.

I hope it’s OK to leave a bit of the old adhesive on the pads. I can’t get it off without damaging something (and I don’t want to use solvents anywhere near the drivers!).


----------



## kh6idf (Nov 16, 2019)

I think if a little of the old adhesive is left on when the new pads are installed it would be OK.  I can't imagine that the adhesive on the new pads wouldn't stick to the old adhesive.

I found out today that the L300 headband assembly isn't EXACTLY compatible with SR202.  I wondered why with my new headband the plastic part that goes over the head was always off to one side, not centered.  I took both yokes off, one was from the new L300 headband, the other was one of the original SR202 parts.  The metal pin that sticks up from the yoke is not at the same angle between L300 and SR202.  I used both original SR202 yokes and everything looks symmetrical now when I wear the headphones.


----------



## beholdclarity

This has probably been asked before, but there is an information overload when performing a search on the matter:

I am currently set with the following setup:


Stax L300 ltd (unmodified)
Stax SRM-353x
SP1000 as a source
I do get *marvellous* results especially at this price-point, but this being a hobby I like to explore if there is more.
What I particularly like about this set is the neutral but well extended bass which growls and vibrates and never is bloated and the extremely quick and resolved highs that never get harsh or annoying. I also enjoy the weight of the mids provided by this setup.

I do, however, feel there could be more width in the soundstage which at times feels small and does not allow for pinpoint positioning of instruments.

My budget is not unlimited, but there might be room for one improvement.
Do you think I should 

a.) go for a high-end solid state amplifier, e.g. the KGSSHV? The 353x drives the L300 ltd to ridiculous levels and I listen to it set to about 9 o'clock. Is there an improvement to be expected with a high end AMP?

b.) go for the SR-009. I do like me some neutral and analytical sound sometimes. Not harsh, but clear. I did enjoy the RAAL SR1R, too. But that, for now, seems unreasonable

What do you think? Is there room left to improve on my l300 ltd with another AMP?
Can my 353x handle the 009 and still perform better than the l300 ltd?


----------



## tumpux

No, get them at the same time. They’re worth it.


----------



## tumpux

Or staying with the current setup is great too.
Upgrading is overrated.


----------



## Amish

@beholdclarity You sound quite happy with your current set up. If you are then stop fussing over what could be and enjoy what you have. Always wondering "what could be" happens to a lot of us and we chase it for years. Just as we think we nailed down our TOTL system, we start thinking about new gear that might eek out a bit more. It's a viscous cycle for sure unless you have loads of expendable income. 

Usually i am one to say upgrade until you are happy, but you seem to be happy already.


----------



## beholdclarity

Thanks for all your comments. I try to avoid the "grass is always greener" fallacy as it is a sure way to unhappiness and perhaps you are right


----------



## Amish

I have to say, the only time I really truly feel the need to upgrade is when i spend time on these forums. I start reading about this that and the other thing and I start thinking I'm missing out on something. I found that when I stay away from audio websites, I tend to just enjoy my gear and not think of upgrading. lol


----------



## Jones Bob

Amish said:


> I have to say, the only time I really truly feel the need to upgrade is when i spend time on these forums. I start reading about this that and the other thing and I start thinking I'm missing out on something. I found that when I stay away from audio websites, I tend to just enjoy my gear and not think of upgrading. lol



That’s the only reason this forum is here.


----------



## DelsFan

Amish said:


> I have to say, the only time I really truly feel the need to upgrade is when i spend time on these forums. I start reading about this that and the other thing and I start thinking I'm missing out on something. I found that when I stay away from audio websites, I tend to just enjoy my gear and not think of upgrading. lol


I've just, almost, finished putting my system together.  Except for one clear deficiency everything I have is (beyond) good enough.  (The problem is a $10 4-pin XLR to 1/4" headphone cable adapter which I know is crap because I listened to a good one @Makahl  had at our last headphone meet - but that situation will be corrected next week when my new ToneKraft headphone cable with 1/4" plug arrives.)  I "am" waiting for my EtherREGEN unit to arrive after Thanksgiving; supposedly an improvement when streaming is to be had when it arrives, but that decision has been made so I'll just enjoy what I have for now.

My solution: I've finally determined to make a conscious decision to enjoy what I'm listening to rather than critiquing my system.  Whenever I'm listening and start thinking about something that could be done differently, I "re-set" by reminding myself to enjoy whatever is playing at the moment.  The time for wondering if I need to replace my pretty good solid-state amplifier with a tube-based one (or replace my Ether2s with MySpheres, or Raals or SR-009s) is while I'm on the Audiogon site, not while I'm in the easy chair with my headphones on!


----------



## andre dufour

koven said:


> Has anyone seen a review of the Woo 3ES? Can't find any impressions online.



Any reviews of the 3ES yet?  I have STAX 009 / 009S with WES 2 and was curious if there's a noticeable improvement to consider 10+K for them.  For example, the STAX SR009S is really better sounding than the 'regular' 009 and was 'worth it' to me.

Anyone own a 3ES?  

Andre


----------



## kh6idf (Dec 15, 2019)

The 'stax fart' noise with my SR202's has been driving me crazy lately, seems much worse in the right earspeaker.  I know this happens when I get an airtight seal and then move my head.  I have the SR404 leather pads.  If I lift the right pad slightly to break the airtight seal, no farting!  I had seen this mod before of inserting a tube to allow air pressure to equalize between inside and outside so I found some teflon tubing in various diameters.  I tried the largest first and while this eliminated the fart, the bass response suffered.  I then tried a smaller diameter.  This smaller tubing eliminates 95-99% of the fart (I have to TRY to hear it) and not only is the bass response not diminished, it actually seems a little better.  I was using the soundtrack to the movie "Interstellar" to test the bass, it has several tracks with good deep bass.

EDIT:  I put the tubing through the leather pad so the corner of the pad would lay down flat.  Previously I had just peeled up the corner and put the tube under the pad but this way is better.  Took a while to work a hole through the leather, I first used a pin, then a couple of small drill bits pushed through by hand.  Finally I trimmed around the holes with a small pointy pair of scissors.

Have the newer earspeakers (I am thinking of the L700 MK2) eliminated the farting/crinkling noise? (I see in a followup post they have).


----------



## VRacer-111

kh6idf said:


> The 'stax fart' noise with my SR202's has been driving me crazy lately, seems much worse in the right earspeaker.  I know this happens when I get an airtight seal and then move my head.  I have the SR404 leather pads.  If I lift the right pad slightly to break the airtight seal, no farting!  I had seen this mod before of inserting a tube to allow air pressure to equalize between inside and outside so I found some teflon tubing in various diameters.  I tried the largest first and while this eliminated the fart, the bass response suffered.  I then tried a smaller diameter.  This smaller tubing eliminates 95-99% of the fart (I have to TRY to hear it) and not only is the bass response not diminished, it actually seems a little better.  I was using the soundtrack to the movie "Interstellar" to test the bass, it has several tracks with good deep bass.
> 
> A more elegant approach might be to carefully carve out a channel in the hard plastic so the teflon tube can lay in it and the pad sit flush.  But this seems to work.
> 
> Have the newer earspeakers (I am thinking of the L700 MK2) eliminated the farting/crinkling noise?



Yes, the L series Lambdas do not "STAX fart" since the pads are not sealed like on the older Lambdas.


----------



## Big Yoshi

beholdclarity said:


> This has probably been asked before, but there is an information overload when performing a search on the matter:
> 
> I am currently set with the following setup:
> 
> ...


i will recommend get 009 if you can  before a more expensive amp.


----------



## jim723

I need some help.

I have a pair of SR-407 that just developed the channel imbalance a couple of days ago. I have not used them for about a month and just took them out to compare with the L300 Limited two days ago. They were stored on a headphone stand covered by the Stax dust cover. The sound on the left side is about 50% lower than the right side.

Is there anything I can try to fix this problem, or do I need to send them in for repair? If so is there a recommended service for Stax in the U.S.?

I did try searching on head-fi and have not found much conclusive information. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

PS: I bought the 407 used from a head-fier two or three months ago. They were in excellent condition when I got them.


----------



## Tugbars (Dec 15, 2019)

So I was port modding my new SR007's. The plastic thingy(on top of metal net) that holds the edge of metal spring in the pad assembly is broken. You see the metal net and the plastic thingy in the middle? That thing. I wonder, if anybody had this problem before and what did you come up with to solve this weird problem.





Edit: I'll glue it.


----------



## Tachikoma

jim723 said:


> I need some help.
> 
> I have a pair of SR-407 that just developed the channel imbalance a couple of days ago. I have not used them for about a month and just took them out to compare with the L300 Limited two days ago. They were stored on a headphone stand covered by the Stax dust cover. The sound on the left side is about 50% lower than the right side.
> 
> ...



My lambda nova sig sometimes develops a channel imbalance, but it goes away by itself. If you're feeling adventurous you could disassemble and reassemble the drivers, and hope for the best.


----------



## jim723

Okay, I will let the 407 sit for a while to see if the imbalance would go away by itself. Thank you for the advice.


----------



## Tachikoma

You should also run a few tests, though, to make sure the membrane is still in good condition. Low frequency tones will readily reveal those problems (10-80 Hz).


----------



## Tugbars (Dec 16, 2019)

So, I fixed my SR007(I glued that rubber thing onto the metal plate). I had port modded SR007 before. However, i didn't know the audible difference before and after the mod.

Before port mod, whole bass region was sounding as distorted/grainy as DT990.(maybe distorted isn't the right word there technically, bass was sounding blurry, grainy, it wasn't tight).   In bass heavy songs there was always some background hum which was totally impossible to tolerate for me.  This was bleeding into the mid range and some of the micro details were getting obscured there too. After port mod, not only in mid-range also throughout whole treble range I can pick out more micro detail now. (maybe i focus more on the music I listen right now, so this can be a placebo) I was getting depressed on how bad my new SR007s sound honestly.

When you buy a new SR007, make sure to port mod it. The difference is huge.

Also, SR007 mk2.5 is sounding very dark. If you are buying second hand, make sure to get SR007 mk2.9.


----------



## jim723

Tachikoma said:


> You should also run a few tests, though, to make sure the membrane is still in good condition. Low frequency tones will readily reveal those problems (10-80 Hz).



Sure thing, will try it this evening. Many thanks.


----------



## AV3Nguyen

I recently received my 353xBK and L300 LTD. However, I just learned about the importance of letting the energizer charge and keep charging the diaphragm. To that note, I'm wondering if the 353x has always-on bias since I'd rather not have the amp on 24/7


----------



## tumpux

People say all kind of things.
Most of them are ...


----------



## Tachikoma

AV3Nguyen said:


> I recently received my 353xBK and L300 LTD. *However, I just learned about the importance of letting the energizer charge and keep charging the diaphragm.* To that note, I'm wondering if the 353x has always-on bias since I'd rather not have the amp on 24/7



Not according to this https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kal...00-electrostatic.900147/page-17#post-15205924


----------



## JimL11

AV3Nguyen said:


> I recently received my 353xBK and L300 LTD. However, I just learned about the importance of letting the energizer charge and keep charging the diaphragm. To that note, I'm wondering if the 353x has always-on bias since I'd rather not have the amp on 24/7



Not really necessary. This comes from the old Quad ESL, which used a nylon coating on its diaphragms that required hours to charge up, but electrolytic headphone diaphragms charge up within a second or so, and once charged will keep their charge for some time. This could be demonstrated with the old Stax adapter boxes which contained the bias supply and transformers. The bias supply was AC powered, while the music signal went through the transformers, which were driven by speaker amps.You could unplug the adapter box, which removed the bias supply power, but the headphones would continue to play for some time because the diaphragm remained charged for a period of time after the AC power was disconnected.


----------



## ahmedie

I am not sure if you are interested but I heard the new stax amps (srm 700T / 700S) while technically they are not much improvement over older designs, they were clearly step up from 727/700TII and closer to a kgst I heard !! I think they are trying to keep house sound and don't want to go for hyper detailed sound. When direct comparison between 700T and 700TII, I noticed how muddy is 700TII. Tonality wise they were really good and made L700 sings. As for 009 and 007 matching they sounded average ...


----------



## ahmedie

AV3Nguyen said:


> I recently received my 353xBK and L300 LTD. However, I just learned about the importance of letting the energizer charge and keep charging the diaphragm. To that note, I'm wondering if the 353x has always-on bias since I'd rather not have the amp on 24/7



As for L700/L300LE I think this is relative and have being noticed by at least 4 people including me that keeping the amp on for a while does improve sound greatly. Maybe charging diaphragm over time changes material characteristics which in turn makes electrostatic field more uniform over diaphragm surface ?


----------



## Tachikoma

Is it about keeping the amp on, or keeping the headphones charged, though?


----------



## Jacques Lolive

ahmedie said:


> I am not sure if you are interested but I heard the new stax amps (srm 700T / 700S) while technically they are not much improvement over older designs, they were clearly step up from 727/700TII and closer to a kgst I heard !! I think they are trying to keep house sound and don't want to go for hyper detailed sound. When direct comparison between 700T and 700TII, I noticed how muddy is 700TII. Tonality wise they were really good and made L700 sings. As for 009 and 007 matching they sounded average ...


When you talk about 700TII you mean amplifier SRM007tII?


----------



## ahmedie

Jacques Lolive said:


> When you talk about 700TII you mean amplifier SRM007tII?


Yes miss types


----------



## Jacques Lolive

ahmedie said:


> Yes miss types


Thank you this is what i thought. What a pity ! So the new amps are not good with the SR009 and SR007?


----------



## Tugbars

Is it possible to send headphones for repair(to STAX japan) if it's bought second hand and we don't know the dealer which the pair has been bought from?

Is there anyone giving repair services such as cleaning diaphragm etc?


----------



## Hubert481

Only the stax repair centre if the country where the stax was bought will repair it.
No other repair center will do what.
That is law of stax mafia.

i was discussing that several times with the stax company.


Go to a company which has a own repair shop and no original stax shop.


----------



## Tugbars

Yeah. My question is, is there someone who is giving such repairing services?


----------



## Whitigir

Tugbars said:


> Yeah. My question is, is there someone who is giving such repairing services?


Call up Stax dealers, they can do RMA for you ? Just guessing


----------



## statfi

Tugbars said:


> Is it possible to send headphones for repair(to STAX japan) if it's bought second hand and we don't know the dealer which the pair has been bought from?
> 
> Is there anyone giving repair services such as cleaning diaphragm etc?


I purchased some earspeakers that I then damaged from Jack Wu <jack@wooaudio.com>.  Woo were helpful in getting me in contact with Arale Leung <arale@edifier-international.com> to get them repaired.  Good luck.


----------



## Tachikoma

Tugbars said:


> Yeah. My question is, is there someone who is giving such repairing services?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/electrostatic-headphone-repair-stax-sennheiser-jecklin-float.824712/


----------



## Tugbars

Thanks everyone. The channel imbalance is just 12% but it's worth to have them fixed before it get's worse.


----------



## Moak

I own a Stax L-500 and bought few weeks ago a SRM323II and a SRM-006tII to compare. I‘ll sell my SRM323II because I think the 006tII sounds better and offers more „surround“ sound.
Anyway....I could getting a SRM-600 but I don‘t know if it make sense because he has only better tubes (ECC99) than my SRM-006tII ?! 
What is your opinion?
Thanks for comments/help.


----------



## patatchod

Hello, 
I think that you shoul listen to your SRM-006tII for some time before looking for a SRM-600, just to let you to be able to perfectly ear the difference between the two amps...


----------



## Moak

patatchod said:


> Hello,
> I think that you shoul listen to your SRM-006tII for some time before looking for a SRM-600, just to let you to be able to perfectly ear the difference between the two amps...


An SRM-600 is very rarely offered.  I didn't look for it.  It is a coincidence that I saw him.


----------



## CJG888

I recently bought a set of original new pads for my 202s. I removed as much of the old adhesive from the cups as I could, before I installed the new pads. Unfortunately, they keep peeling off. The double-sided sticky tape clearly isn’t sticking.
Any suggestions as to an adhesive which I can safely use to attach the pads to the cups (so that they can be removed later, and without fumes which could damage the membranes)?
Thanks.


----------



## Sound Eq (Dec 25, 2019)

any more impressions bout srm t700s, i have srm007tii and  wonder whats the difference

i like to stick to tube amps that are bit warmish and musical, my source is chord hugo tt2 with xlr balanced telerium black cables and i barely go to 50% on my srm00tii. Adding chord tt2 to my chain is the biggest difference i had compared to all other dacs

i read alot bout kgsshv and bhse but some complain bout them not being musical and that they are cold analytical sounding, the details i get from hugo tt2 are more than enough with my stax 007mk2, and those telerium black xlr cables are the first cables i witness that cables make a difference compared to cardas xlr cables i had

my headphone is stax 007 mk2 latest version which i adore, and i did not port mod it nor do i feel i need better bass response , i like it as is


----------



## JimL11

Sound Eq said:


> any more impressions bout srm t700s, i have srm007tii and  wonder whats the difference
> 
> i like to stick to tube amps that are bit warmish and musical, my source is chord hugo tt2 with xlr balanced telerium black cables and i barely go to 50% on my srm00tii. Adding chord tt2 to my chain is the biggest difference i had compared to all other dacs
> 
> ...



If you're referring to the Stax SRM-700T, it appears to be a SRM-007T II with two 6SN7 tubes substituted for four 6CG7/6FQ7 tubes without any other significant changes other than nearly doubling the price. Note that the specifications between the two amps are pretty much identical, including maximum drive capability, which remains lower than their solid state amps (340 V RMS vs. 450 V RMS at 1 kHz). Specifically, Stax still has not replaced the output plate resistors with constant current loads, which would raise the drive capability to the same as their solid state drivers, and be a significant improvement IMHO. 

Put it this way: you could buy a used SRM-T1 for $500-600, replace the old electrolytic capacitors and do my constant current load mod for about $100 in parts, and get higher drive capability with lower distortion, better bass and cleaner highs, than either the SRM-007T II or SRM-700T.


----------



## Hubert481

JimL11, your mod is perfect !!!

The modified T1 is the best amp, i habe ever heard for a stax system. (Based on L700)

here are the 4 steps in german language.
http://blog.prof-x.de/2018/07/22/stax-vacuum-tube-driver-teil-1-kleine-aufbereitung/
http://blog.prof-x.de/2018/08/08/stax-vacuum-tube-driver-teil-2-technische-ueberholung/
http://blog.prof-x.de/2019/06/17/st...l-2-1-ergaenzung-zur-technischen-ueberholung/
http://blog.prof-x.de/2019/01/26/stax-vacuum-tube-driver-teil-3-output-stage-mod/
http://blog.prof-x.de/2019/03/02/stax-vacuum-tube-driver-teil-4-ecc99-tube-swap/
http://blog.prof-x.de/2019/07/24/stax-vacuum-tube-driver-teil-5-ultimativer-vergleich/


----------



## Don Quichotte

Sound Eq said:


> ...those telerium black xlr cables are the first cables i witness that cables make a difference compared to cardas xlr cables i had


Could you please describe the differences, especially in terms of timbre & tonality? PM if too off-topic. Thanks!


----------



## JimL11

Hubert481 said:


> JimL11, your mod is perfect !!!
> 
> The modified T1 is the best amp, i have ever heard for a stax system. (Based on L700)



Thanks! It's not meant to be the best ever, but I think it is great value for the time and money spent, Of course, it relies on the basic soundness of the original Stax design - just kicks it up a notch. Just wish Stax would do something similar to their tube output models to bring them up to date.


----------



## hks777

I am interested in trying a stax headphone. I would like to experience the sound of an elctrostatic headphone, and how it is different to my headphones i already have.I would like to hear if a elctrostatic is better than my headphones or if it is just different.
I can buy a used sr-202 with a srm-Xh, or a l300 with a 252s for twice the money. Is the sr-202 setup good enough for my needs, or should i spend the extra money?


----------



## tumpux

My advice, dont spend anything yet.
Find a friend or a store with a demo unit. Decide whether you like the sound after trying different models.


----------



## -HaVoC-Tzu-

I have only heard a few electrostatics.
Koss model from drop, (because I bought it)
STAX L700
RR1 conquest
Mr. Speakers / Dan Clarke Audio Voce

The Voce kinda blew my mind, the imaging and soundstage was unreal, but there is almost no bass impact at all.  They are still the best headphone that I have heard so far.
L700 was nowhere near as impressive as I thought it would be.
RR1 conquest impressive for the price, but I wouldn’t trade it for my HD-800.
if you want a cheap way in and you don’t have a way to demo them you can checkout the Koss.
The vocal detail is nice and the treble is far from harsh to my ears.
I still have not heard the SR-009/S or 007 because I can’t find a place to demo them in California.


----------



## hks777

-HaVoC-Tzu- said:


> I have only heard a few electrostatics.
> Koss model from drop, (because I bought it)
> STAX L700
> RR1 conquest
> ...



There is also a pair of the Koss from drop for sale used, for the same price as the sr202 setup. Would that be a better buy ? does the Koss give me the typical electrostatic sound, like the stax ?


----------



## Lord Rexter

Koss ESP 95x for $400 is great value and best option to get into Estats game (entry level that is) , also comes with lifetime warranty. New Koss is very close to STAX but STAX is the way to go! Be warned will burnt holes into your pockets sooner or later.


----------



## catscratch (Dec 28, 2019)

To me, the "warmish and musical" description actually applies to the 717 just as well as the 007t, and if the new solid state amp really is a resurrected 717 and sounds similar, then I wouldn't overlook it. What's not a good thing is the asking price, $3k gets you a pretty high level KGSS and while the 717 is good, it's not $3k good. But who knows, maybe the price will come down over time.

Regardless the 717 remains my favorite factory Stax amp by a pretty wide margin, though I haven't heard them all (especially the T2).


----------



## afgmjkl

Has anyone heard this headphones ?

https://www.eslabhk.com/


----------



## BreadMaster

afgmjkl said:


> Has anyone heard this headphones ?
> 
> https://www.eslabhk.com/


LMAO so Stax sr-omega rip off?


----------



## Whitigir

Wow, it does look like an omega


----------



## CJG888

I do like the look of their amp, though!


----------



## Moak

Hi,
does anyone have any experience where the tonal differences are between an SRM-006tII and an SRM-600?  I have an SRM-006tII and am considering getting an SRM-600.  I only know that he has the stronger tubes, the ECC99.  Otherwise, it should be pretty much the same, right?  I have an SR-L500.

Olaf


----------



## BreadMaster

Whitigir said:


> Wow, it does look like an omega


It’s affordable too just like when the SR-Omega came out in 1993


----------



## tumpux

I won't consider Omega affordable, even in 1993..


----------



## BreadMaster

Lmao $1600 is a lot more affordable than forking out 4-6k for totl these days....


----------



## Whitigir

BreadMaster said:


> Lmao $1600 is a lot more affordable than forking out 4-6k for totl these days....


Sus! Sus! sus!

Susvara !


----------



## BreadMaster

But hey,  if this fake ass clone sounds 100% like the original SR-Omega then I’m sold haha..


----------



## Whitigir

BreadMaster said:


> But hey,  if this fake ass clone sounds 100% like the original SR-Omega then I’m sold haha..


Bring one into Stax headquarters and tell them to evaluate.  You just found a NOS-OMEGA stashed away from WWII....Like new! lol....

one way to make sure


----------



## bwck2000 (Dec 29, 2019)

To me,ES-1a is slightly inferior to omega on the great openess in soundstage of it and its supering-revealing detail given that the omega is still working properly. But for other aspects in sound they are very similar. ES-1a suits people who dislike the 009 or want a different music presentation from it. So I think it is a fair pricetag considering its sound,its build and the fact that ES Lab is a newly-enstablished brand.


http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2171070


Here is one of the few reviews from someone who auditioned ES-1a in the loan program. Although its in Chinese but its still readable using google translate. But I still saw some translating errors like tablet=planar headphones,Xiao,ao means HE60 and  Da,ao means HE90. I can send out a pair for audition if one of the electrostatic experts here can give it a verdict.

ES Lab accepts orders worldwide. However,The number of ES-1 alpha orders from China has been overwhelming so I have delayed my plan to introduce this headphone to head-fiers outside China. As a result there is little exposure of es-1a here. Perhaps I can hold a es1a loan program in the future,other than the several sample headphones circulating in China.


Btw the photo on the mainpage is outdated,Now the design is revised with finer headband finishing and flatter screws on the plate.


----------



## CJG888

Any details on the amp? Will it drive Stax SR-202s?


----------



## bwck2000

CJG888 said:


> Any details on the amp? Will it drive Stax SR-202s?



The amp is not from ES Lab but an engineer back in China. I remember that he posted information of his amp on hc. That amp costs 2000USD so it might not suit you if you are looking for an amp to pair the 202, but surely it is one of the best looking electrostatic amp available.


----------



## BreadMaster

bwck2000 said:


> To me,ES-1a is slightly inferior to omega on the great openess in soundstage of it and its supering-revealing detail given that the omega is still working properly. But for other aspects in sound they are very similar. ES-1a suits people who dislike the 009 or want a different music presentation from it. So I think it is a fair pricetag considering its sound,its build and the fact that ES Lab is a newly-enstablished brand.
> 
> 
> http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2171070
> ...


Picture of the revised design?


----------



## Lord Rexter




----------



## bwck2000

BreadMaster said:


> Picture of the revised design?


added a photo on the es1a product page 
please scroll to the last photo where the headphone inside the box is pictured
you can see a change in appearance of screws


----------



## ahmedie

Sound Eq said:


> any more impressions bout srm t700s, i have srm007tii and  wonder whats the difference
> 
> i like to stick to tube amps that are bit warmish and musical, my source is chord hugo tt2 with xlr balanced telerium black cables and i barely go to 50% on my srm00tii. Adding chord tt2 to my chain is the biggest difference i had compared to all other dacs
> 
> ...



Well I had mjolnir srd-7, stax 323s, kgst, and I tested 007tii, 700s and 700t at two shop (also T8000 which sounded very bad), and I used my source. My headphones are L300LE and 007mk2.5 with ring mod. I can tell you 007 sounded worst with stax 323s and improved with srd-7 then further improved greatly with kgst both technical and musical aspects. Back to L300LE actually they lose much of warmness and musicality with both srd-7 and kgst, while improved technically in bass and treble just a little and become more analytical, actually they had much bigger sound stage out of 323s. The 007mk2.5 improves alot through kgst in all aspects while L300LE improved a little in technical aspects but loses warmth and sound-stage, and improvement is not as obvious. 

I would say for 007mk2.5 just go for kg design much better musical and technically. Now here is my impression is with L300LE with new 700t, 700s and 007tii, kgst. 
Sound-stage size: 007tii > kgst > 700t > 700s (but 007tii sounstage is clearly artificial and unnatural, similar to 323s, little fuzzy)
Imaging: kgst >= 700s > 700t >> 007tii
Transparency: kgst > 700s > 700t > 007tii
Details: kgs >= 700s > 700t >> 007tii
Warmth 700t=007tii > kgst=700s
The new amps are really much better than older stax amp and they sound more similar to kg amp and produces accurate sound-stage while retaining warmth. I would say they are good upgrade but not for the price ! 2000$ maybe maximum ones should pay for them. Since mjolnir amps are very sensitive to source, I rather buy kgst/kgsshv and tube source to get warmth and sound-stage. Actually I used cheapo tube pre-amp with kgst (3000$) and L300LE was singing, but for me thought not worth the price different over 323s/srd-7 .... 

As for 007mk2.5 through kgst they sounded better in all aspects over 007tii


----------



## Jon L

bwck2000 said:


> Perhaps I can hold a es1a loan program in the future,other than the several sample headphones circulating in China.



That would be a Great idea


----------



## TomRussell

This isn't a reply.

Sorry for using this forum for my own purposes - nevertheless - I've exhausted all other options. This is my next best/only creative option.

I'm trying to contact @georgep and @Kerry concerning a T2 build. I have - repeatedly, and again and again, tried to use the private message feature. There is simply no send button. If there is some trick required to send a private message, I am unaware of it. I got the same no button/no way to send using both @georgep and @Kerry links. Perhaps georgep or kerry will see this - or perhaps there is an already built T2 out there for me - or someone might do me the favor of pointing this out to George or Kerry. Or, perhaps someone can point me in the right direction for sending a private message. BTW, this message is easy to send. Push the post reply button. 

I copied the message I wrote to @Kerry and I'll paste it in below. Maybe it will save wondering what I am really about. 

I decided to leave the comments about the group in the text. Total transparency, et al.  

Thanks guys and apologies again.


Hello. Tom here. As you see, I am interested in obtaining a T2 amp. Obviously, I got your address from a Head-fi post. One of your T2s came up on the marketplace forum recently. I should have bought that one - but - I didn't. Now, here we are. What do I need to tell you/ what do I need to know prior to ordering a T2 build from you? Reading the Stax related posts, there seems to be a lot of secrecy and cliquishness on Stax related forums. I just want an amp. I've found that the easiest, and least expensive, way to get something is to only buy it once. In this case, I've never heard a Stax headphone - nevertheless - the T2 is the unanimous choice. I don't want to buy a bunch of amps only to end up still really wanting a T2 all along. FWIW, I do have experience with electrostatic speakers. For a long, long time I've had full-range electrostatic speakers with high-voltage (6kv) direct drive amps in my 2-channel system. A friend has Sound Labs A-1s. I definitely like whatever the electrostatic sound is. I currently use a Woo WA-5 with LCD3s and an HD800. I am expecting a substantial increase in sound quality with a 009s/T2 combo. ​I am far from a wealthy guy. Houses on my block don't have Stax products in them (or Woo WA-5s, for that matter).​ This is a BIG leap of faith, having neither seen nor heard either. However, knowing there is absolutely no chance for me to hear any of these types of equipment, sometimes you simply have to take a leap.  Thanks Tom​


----------



## BreadMaster

@Whitigir chime in on this since you have the 009/T2 setup

@mulveling


----------



## vault108

For anyone interested, you can get the ES1A for $12,240 HKD on sale ($15,300 HKD), https://www.eslabhk.com. I would've take a dab and get it but I just purchase the HE60.


----------



## Eich1eeF

TomRussell said:


> However, knowing there is absolutely no chance for me to hear any of these types of equipment, sometimes you simply have to take a leap. Thanks Tom


Considering the amount you intend to spend and the time you'll have to wait for a T2 build, I'd say you're mistaken. You should ask around if anyone is going to bring a T2 to any of the meetups or a CanJam listed in https://www.head-fi.org/forums/local-regional-head-fi-meets-parties-get-togethers.24/ and then just book a flight + hotel.


----------



## Kerry

@TomRussell - I just PM'd you.  I am in NYC and there is the Feb CanJam if you'd like to hear it.  I could arrange a private audition if you planned on attending.


----------



## BreadMaster

vault108 said:


> For anyone interested, you can get the ES1A for $12,240 HKD on sale ($15,300 HKD), https://www.eslabhk.com. I would've take a dab and get it but I just purchase the HE60.



Very tempted by the Omega clone。It needs to reach 90% for me to really consider


----------



## Whitigir

Happy new year everyone !


----------



## BreadMaster

Whitigir said:


> Happy new year everyone !


2020 is going to drain my well dry..


----------



## batfier

Lord Rexter said:


>



As you are posting this pic into the Stax thread I would expect that you are still wearing your favorite headphone (Stax) while making the photo, right? 

Would be interesting to know what Stax headphone it is and how it's compares to the rest on the table...


----------



## BreadMaster (Jan 1, 2020)

More photos


It slays the Utopia/Susvara and goes toe to toe with 009S so they say....


 



 I


----------



## Jon L

BreadMaster said:


> More photos
> 
> It slays the Utopia/Susvara and goes toe to toe with 009S so they say....
> I



Well, quick initial comparison impressions are in order, I would think..


----------



## bwck2000

www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2172045&extra=page%3D1&page=2

Since only the pictures are put here so I will just leave this link ......


----------



## bwck2000

BreadMaster said:


> It slays the Utopia/Susvara and goes toe to toe with 009S so they say....



Because none of the reviewers is benefited other than being able to participate in the loaner program so I suppose they are giving honest comments  

But thats only what they say so comes to the conclusion only when you heard one


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

bwck2000 said:


> Because none of the reviewers is benefited other than being able to participate in the loaner program so I suppose they are giving honest comments
> 
> But thats only what they say so comes to the conclusion only when you heard one



Would you happen to have a frequency response graph of the ES1a? You say its for those that don't like the 009 or prefer a different flavor. I have not heard the original omega but is it safe to say it sounds more akin to the 007 than the 009 or 009S? I was never much a fan of the 009 and 009S but I love the SR-007. Thankyou for any help you may provide


----------



## protoss

Hi-Fi-Apricity said:


> Would you happen to have a frequency response graph of the ES1a? You say its for those that don't like the 009 or prefer a different flavor. I have not heard the original omega but is it safe to say it sounds more akin to the 007 than the 009 or 009S? I was never much a fan of the 009 and 009S but I love the SR-007. Thankyou for any help you may provide



Omega 1993 is a bright headphone. A steriod version of HD800.

It has characteristics of Sony 010 or HD800 or Utopia. It is close to a Stax 009 than 007.

Omega has amazing detail retrieval. Great natural sound to it. Omega can be fatiguing and overly bright. There is no 6K peaks or problems like that. It has a big sound and very lifelike. Basically the headphone is only design for classical music to be honest. Anything else..... meh.... 

If you don't like 009 or HD800 or Utopia. Than say bye bye to Omega. 

I prefer the dark smooth sound of 007Mk1 over the Omega 1993. And even the HE90. Because they are warmer. But the Omega has a addiction sound that is pretty good.


----------



## bwck2000

Hi-Fi-Apricity said:


> Would you happen to have a frequency response graph of the ES1a? You say its for those that don't like the 009 or prefer a different flavor. I have not heard the original omega but is it safe to say it sounds more akin to the 007 than the 009 or 009S? I was never much a fan of the 009 and 009S but I love the SR-007. Thankyou for any help you may provide









Green=009
Red=omega
Blue=es1a
Brown=HE90

measured on the same system (717+ minidsp ears)   , the db level of the graph of individual headphone does not correspond to the actual loudness


----------



## Whitigir

Very nice! But I think we kinda agree that the graph is just the beginning of it....the most important is how it would sound in real life.

I would say that you or anyone from that company, better give a sample pair to the Stax Mafia such as Kerry, Birgir, Kevin Gilmore, and ask them for an honest opinions.  After all, the greatest Stax Amplifiers in the world are coming from Stax Mafia and DIY folks.  They are harsh, but they are honest down to the earth, just like how anyone should be when working around these High-Voltage stuff.  Be neat, honest, meticulous, precise, and respect


----------



## bwck2000

Whitigir said:


> Very nice! But I think we kinda agree that the graph is just the beginning of it....the most important is how it would sound in real life.
> 
> I would say that you or anyone from that company, better give a sample pair to the Stax Mafia such as Kerry, Birgir, Kevin Gilmore, and ask them for an honest opinions.  After all, the greatest Stax Amplifiers in the world are coming from Stax Mafia and DIY folks.  They are harsh, but they are honest down to the earth, just like how anyone should be when working around these High-Voltage stuff.  Be neat, honest, meticulous, precise, and respect



I don't believe in FR graph either. One can explain why a headphone sounds like that with a graph but one can never predict how a headphone sounds just with a graph on hand.

Well I am welcome if one of those stax mafias ask for a pair. I would really appreciate if they can give my headphone a fair comment (just don't take my headphone apart ).


----------



## bwck2000

protoss said:


> Omega 1993 is a bright headphone. A steriod version of HD800.
> 
> It has characteristics of Sony 010 or HD800 or Utopia. It is close to a Stax 009 than 007.
> 
> ...



HD800 and omega might be equally bright but hd800 sounds much more harsh while omega is much more smooth and crystal clear.

But es1a is not as thick and warm as 007mk1 as I am not a big fan of 007mk1. I only use it for overly bright songs.


----------



## protoss

bwck2000 said:


> HD800 and omega might be equally bright but hd800 sounds much more harsh while omega is much more smooth and crystal clear



Yes. The omega is much smoother and definitely more cleaner. Almost zero grain. Maybe that's where the addiction is found I notice.


----------



## Hi-Fi-Apricity

bwck2000 said:


> Green=009
> Red=omega
> Blue=es1a
> Brown=HE90
> ...




Thankyou! Woah that is very impressive. I also do not believe that graphs tell the whole story but they at the very least can give me a very rudimentary idea and confirm something isn't completely busted. 
You mention on your site that there are 2 different pad choices? Which did you use for the measurement. I am really curious to see how the other pad choice measures as well if that is not asking to much.


----------



## Amish

The L700mkII does not require mods. What is up with the tube?


----------



## Moak

Has someone problems with a SRM600 ltd. ? I think about to buy the amp for changing my SRM006tII.
I have a L500. My first Stax.
But I heard that the SRM600 has sometimes failure...


----------



## JimL11

Monolaf said:


> Has someone problems with a SRM600 ltd. ? I think about to buy the amp for changing my SRM006tII.
> I have a L500. My first Stax.
> But I heard that the SRM600 has sometimes failure...



Spritzer, who no longer posts here, reported problems with the SRM-600 output plate resistors failing in a post at another site back in 2013. No personal experience, just passing this along. OTOH it's been another 6 years, so if the unit you are buying has survived, perhaps it's not a problem. Of course, you could always do my constant current mod, which replaces the output resistors with dual MOSFET current sources and eliminates the problem entirely, as well as improving the drive capability.


----------



## Moak

JimL11 said:


> Spritzer, who no longer posts here, reported problems with the SRM-600 output plate resistors failing in a post at another site back in 2013. No personal experience, just passing this along. OTOH it's been another 6 years, so if the unit you are buying has survived, perhaps it's not a problem. Of course, you could always do my constant current mod, which replaces the output resistors with dual MOSFET current sources and eliminates the problem entirely, as well as improving the drive capability.


Ah, ok, thanks a lot.
Could you post your mod again, please (or the link) because I can‘t find it.


----------



## GarageBoy

https://audioxpress.com/news/get-the-objective-perspective-on-audio-with-audioxpress-july-2017

It's in that issue
Worth the few bucks to support audioxpress and james


----------



## JimL11

GarageBoy said:


> https://audioxpress.com/news/get-the-objective-perspective-on-audio-with-audioxpress-july-2017
> 
> It's in that issue
> Worth the few bucks to support audioxpress and james



Correct. The SMR-600 has basically the same circuit as the T1 except for using a different tube - ECC99 vs 6CG7. It does have the 5.1k output safety resistors and the 5M bias output resistor which need to be added to the T1. OTOH it lacks the normal bias socket which the T1 has, that allows the T1 to drive the older Stax headphone models.


----------



## Moak

JimL11 said:


> Correct. The SMR-600 has basically the same circuit as the T1 except for using a different tube - ECC99 vs 6CG7. It does have the 5.1k output safety resistors and the 5M bias output resistor which need to be added to the T1. OTOH it lacks the normal bias socket which the T1 has, that allows the T1 to drive the older Stax headphone models.


I have heard that the SRM-600 has a circuit far from the T1.  All other tube amplifiers would have a circuit similar to the T1.  Therefore, the SRM-600 would be more sensitive and have more interference than the other amplifiers.  Above all, the excessive voltage should bad?!  Can you confirm that, too?  Are the built-in output fuses installed for more safety?  Is the SRM-600 with the ECC99 better than a 006tII or a T1 modified with ECC99?


----------



## JimL11

I have no idea where you get your information. Kevin Gilmore has published the circuit of the SRM-600, and the SRM-T1 circuit is also on the web. If you compare the two you will see that they are basically the same circuit except for the change in tubes, and the safety resistors. The 600 has slightly lower plate resistors (30k x 2 vs 33k x 2) which allows a bit more standing current, and the output cathode bias resistors are changed to accommodate this, but otherwise same circuit. I believe the PS of the 600 is a bit more up to date, using regulated low voltages rather than a simple zener diode. I haven't laid eyes on an SRM-600 or a T1 with ECC99 so I have no idea of their comparative sound quality.


----------



## bwck2000

Hi-Fi-Apricity said:


> Thankyou! Woah that is very impressive. I also do not believe that graphs tell the whole story but they at the very least can give me a very rudimentary idea and confirm something isn't completely busted.
> You mention on your site that there are 2 different pad choices? Which did you use for the measurement. I am really curious to see how the other pad choice measures as well if that is not asking to much.



Their FRs look similar so I dont post it separately. The sound of stiff pad is more dark, soft and tender than the soft-pad which sounds neutral.
It is interesting that BHSE users reported that they like the stiff pad more with others think the opposite. Might be its charactor balance the bright tone of bhse.


----------



## DaddyWhale

Hi everyone!

I recently bought an sr-009s from Woo Audio. It's been simply superb.

I got the 9s with the stax srm-d50 energizer. The d50 is my stopgap until I get a chance to listen to end-game energizers like the carbon cc, bhse and the higher end Woo ones.

Do you have any suggestions on how I can go about choosing between these energizers? I don't think canjams will work for me for making considered assessments. And I definitely don't want to buy $20k worth of energizers with the intention of keeping only one.

Any suggestions? Thanks!


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## bearFNF (Jan 9, 2020)

DaddyWhale said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I recently bought an sr-009s from Woo Audio. It's been simply superb.
> 
> ...


Depending on where you are you might be able to go to a local meet or some one here may be close to you and willing to invite you over? I ended up going to multiple canjams and multiple meets before I decided which one I wanted to buy.


----------



## Whitigir

You know it! KG-T2!!! And it isn’t $20k


----------



## thomaskong78

DaddyWhale said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I recently bought an sr-009s from Woo Audio. It's been simply superb.
> 
> ...


I recommend you to look for KGsshv Carbon amplifier.

It has good balance of treble and bass.

Sometimes you can find used one at bargain.


----------



## Moak

JimL11 said:


> I have no idea where you get your information. Kevin Gilmore has published the circuit of the SRM-600, and the SRM-T1 circuit is also on the web. If you compare the two you will see that they are basically the same circuit except for the change in tubes, and the safety resistors. The 600 has slightly lower plate resistors (30k x 2 vs 33k x 2) which allows a bit more standing current, and the output cathode bias resistors are changed to accommodate this, but otherwise same circuit. I believe the PS of the 600 is a bit more up to date, using regulated low voltages rather than a simple zener diode. I haven't laid eyes on an SRM-600 or a T1 with ECC99 so I have no idea of their comparative sound quality.


Do you have a link who Kevin Gilmore has published the circuit of the SRM-600? 
I can‘t find nothing about that....in the Internet.


----------



## Jones Bob (Jan 11, 2020)

Deleted


----------



## JimL11 (Jan 11, 2020)

This is a link to KG's public files:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B7egryukiT7_TFlEQlBRejdVdDQ

Includes his designs, schematics of some other's designs, etc. I think the SRM-600 schematic is somewhere in there but I haven't looked recently. Just the amp circuit, though IIRC, not the PS, which is probably very similar if not identical to the SRM-007T PS - that is, passive RC bipolar HV and bipolar LV supply using 78/79 series IC regs. The public version of the T1 schematic found on the internet is reproduced in my AudioXpress article.


----------



## Cedar Research Institute

Hello!

A question for the Masters of the Dark Headphone arts.

I would like to listen to my 300b SET speaker amplifier through STAX headphones. The rest of the system is a vinyl rig and a tube preamp. Goal is to replace my Altec speakers to give the neighbors a break. Does using the WOO WEE device preserve the original sound of the power amplifier? What can I expect to hear? All opinions and advice very much appreciated!

Cheers!


----------



## VRacer-111

Cedar Research Institute said:


> Hello!
> 
> A question for the Masters of the Dark Headphone arts.
> 
> ...



Spritzer (Mjolnir Audio) has a modded SRD-7 E-stat transformer energizer that is more recommended over the Woo Wee. He also just came out with a new one that uses a higher quality Lundahl transformer that I'd like to try out but is quite a bit pricier than the modded SRD-7.

https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/    ....scroll to bottom...

With the SRD-7 and my NAD C275BEE stereo amp, I'm getting really nice low end and full sounding mids compared to any STAX SS driver. The NAD C275BEE still has its character with my L300 Limiteds that it has with my Polk Audio RTiA5 speakers.... very prominent low end presence with really clean and punchy midbass, full mids that feel really detailed but would like just a little more fleshed out, and nicely detailed and energetic treble...


----------



## Hubert481

Who did compare with Woo Wee ?
Do you habe any link?


----------



## JimL11

The potential issue with the Woo Wee is that the bias supply has been reported to use the wrong value resistor, or none, which could damage the diaphragm coating. Do a Google search for Woo Wee resistor.


----------



## Cedar Research Institute

Great stuff, thank you all so much!


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## ahmedie (Jan 25, 2020)

Are any one live in Japan / Tokyo are who own stax system with kgsshv/kgst etc. ? I am interested to hear you stax system ! I also own stax system and you can hear it too...

By the way I post some mod for L700/L300LE
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-l300-impressions-thread.813511/page-64#post-15435888


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## ahmedie (Feb 3, 2020)

Deleted


----------



## afgmjkl

New electrostatic amplifier STACCATO.
http://www.fidelix.jp/technology/staccato.html

He made SRA-10S in the past.


----------



## JimL11

afgmjkl said:


> New electrostatic amplifier STACCATO.
> http://www.fidelix.jp/technology/staccato.html
> 
> He made SRA-10S in the past.



Looking at the simplified schematic, it appears that this amp uses an output differential amp with drain resistors running 6 mA current per side. Unfortunately, this wastes a lot of the signal current in the drain resistors. If the  designer had used a constant current load in place of the drain resistor, he could effectively more than double the output power while concurrent decreasing distortion without changing the operating conditions.


----------



## thinker (Feb 10, 2020)

[URL


----------



## bmichels

afgmjkl said:


> New electrostatic amplifier STACCATO.
> http://www.fidelix.jp/technology/staccato.html
> 
> He made SRA-10S in the past.



As a BHSE owner, I will stay with HeadAmp, so I am looking forward hearing the new "All tube" electrostatic Amp that headAmp should release ... one day.


----------



## zolkis

A likely divisive opinion: when comparing the BHSE (+Psvane) with the Phenomenon amp, I was surprised to find the latter even better in natural dynamics and sound stage, being similarly smooth and natural. A far cry better sound than any Stax energizers, for similar price. Very solid build, too. It drives difficult loads effortlessly. I know nothing about the internals or the sanity of the design, but the sound is excellent and looks like something that will last for a long time. I guess it takes a leap of faith to order it, but I am pretty much convinced it's worth it. Myself I will give some more chance to tubes, but this is now the next strong contender on my radar.


----------



## Jon L

zolkis said:


> A likely divisive opinion: when comparing the BHSE (+Psvane) with the Phenomenon amp, I was surprised to find the latter even better in natural dynamics and sound stage, being similarly smooth and natural. A far cry better sound than any Stax energizers, for similar price. Very solid build, too. It drives difficult loads effortlessly. I know nothing about the internals or the sanity of the design, but the sound is excellent and looks like something that will last for a long time. I guess it takes a leap of faith to order it, but I am pretty much convinced it's worth it. Myself I will give some more chance to tubes, but this is now the next strong contender on my radar.



Looks like made in Russia?  Are you in Russia, if not, how much was shipping cost?
Sometimes I'm envious of audiophilles in Europe, China, as there seem be more options, especially at seemingly lower price points than U.S. 
Second photo is China's Brio ES Stat amp. 

Phenonmenon stat amp




PhenomenonStatAmp by drjlo2, on Flickr

Brio ES stat amp




BrioESstatAmp by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## armani006 (Feb 9, 2020)

Hi, Stax people, I’ve only been a couple of months in the Stax world and want to share some impressions about the Stax headphone modding. I have an L500 with SRM-006tII. It seemed to me that the original pads on the L500 are uncomfortable and do not fit snugly to the head. Obviously stax doesn't have enough bass. Therefore, I ordered special pads from Vesper Audio. By the way, I saw their record somewhere here on the site. They are based in Belarus, Minsk. I saw this from the delivery box with their address. So what about impressions? I think this is a Must Have option for any Stax user. This is not a kind of advertisement for Vesper Audio. In fact, they just sent them to me after payment, they did not even inform me of the date of sending, they did not ask if I received them)).
What's the sound? The bass has become much nicer and bigger. It has become closer in sound to dynamic headphones. Became more fleshy and enjoyable. In some songs where there should be a very low bass at the level of the building's jitter, standard staxes did not have it. In mods, it is present and sounds right. I remember this from the dynamic headphones and from my wireless bassheads. As a result, we have the speed of electrostats and sufficient bass. At the same time, it remains the same fast and clear unlike dynamic headphones, well, you understand what I mean.
I will not give links, this is not advertising, just my review. I am now very pleased with the way stax sounds. There is another 500th and I can compare the sound instantly changing the headphones, especially 006 has two outputs.
Here is my review, I sincerely wish those who's Staxes give a feeling of insufficient bass to buy any modified ear pads that are thicker than original and made of genuine leather. Mine by the way made from thin sheep skin. Very soft, comfortable. I bought my L500 as used and it was unpleasant to wear them with old pads after somebody else...

By the way, I have absolute new L500 mk2 for sell. 820Euro, shipping in Europe.


----------



## 526731 (Feb 14, 2020)

Greetings to everyone;

I'd occasionally lurk here, but frankly saw not much reason to register; until i had this very question. After an apparently incomplete Google search as i found only one related mention, i made a thread in the new members section to enquire; then here i am, scrolling through the Stax pages i'd not read and voila.



JimL11 said:


> Put it this way: you could buy a used SRM-T1 for $500-600, replace the old electrolytic capacitors and do my constant current load mod for about $100 in parts, and get higher drive capability with lower distortion, better bass and cleaner highs, than either the SRM-007T II or SRM-700T.



And whom was it that actually answered it ^^
First of all Jim, thank you very much for publishing that CCS mod back then. Made an unexpected difference and was admittedly the reason i've kept my T1 for as long as i have. Belated as this may be, thank you very much for sharing it.

And as it appears, you've also answered my question regarding the merit of 'upgrading' from a T1 to a 007tii.
Rather baffling given the difference in both pricing and years, i'd have expected the very opposite; nonetheless, my gratitude.

Now i need explore even more expensive options it seems; lovely. And what a surprise, never before, i swear ... 
P.S. _Are_ there any worthy options at that price range? Excluding 'Mafia' stuff which i refuse to even consider? Regardless.


----------



## 526731 (Feb 15, 2020)

Went straight to it and only now realised -sincere apologies- i neglected the basics..

Not exactly a well off person, but partly a relatively frugal living (most things i enjoy revolve around mental exercises or practices) partly good planning, i've managed O.K. hobby-wise 

I own a Sigma (the 'panoramic'), a Lamda Nova Signature Pro, a Classic(s[?]) Pro and an SR-3 or 5, i'm not sure right now; white casing, white cable; all in exceptional condition, you'd honestly think they're brand new. They're my babies 
I wish i could tell you i also own the 90s Omega, lol, but.. yeah.. i don't.
I'd say the Sigma is my favourite by far, the Nova Signature a close second, though they all have their charm and knowing them well by now, i occasionally alternate between them, music and circumstances depending.

While not exactly 'required', am in the process of saving up for a new one; i don't buy used electrostats, never have; all the above have been purchased brand new. Too sensitive for one (even the altitude/humidity is a factor and who knows where the previous owner lived, let alone how they treated them) and of course with headphones it's a bit more personal isn't it? I don't want to wear what who knows whom was wearing before me. Can't exactly wash mashine earpads now can you 
Not quite certain as to which model i'll be purchasing just yet, but way i see it, only two options:

- Second in order of preference, the L700 mk2.
Honestly? Just that new brace.. arc..(?) is enough of a reason; my love for those i own notwithstanding, it's been my complaint since day one; with the exception of the SR, i fear even moving my head too abruptly in case they fall off me, very, very bad fitting. Honestly don't know why they kept it for so many decades, escpecially given the pricing.
Then of course it's a Lamda, it's also their best Lamda from current offerings, and by now it's had its quirks remedied (always a thing with Stax huh).
And a bit enticing that they incorporate 009 "technology", whatever that may actually mean?
Actual leather band and pads a cherry on top.

- First in order of preference, the 009s.
Yes, yes and no, i don't care. Because those very certain few (ahem, and always the said same certain few, what a surprise) that complain the loudest also happen to be among those who have posted the most about Stax phones in general; you read enough of their posts, you get an idea of their preferences; and suffice it to say, not worried about the 009s, not in the slightest.
Though if i go this way, i'll be in need of a better amp. Given JimL's track record, lol, i'm thinking of an SRX Plus; what worries me is obtaining the PCBs, but.. that's if and when.
And while rather immature i suppose, frankly i've never had an Omega, not exactly in my typical budget. And i do want one.

I really love Stax because i really love music. Music and books; they make my personal world (nutshells and headaches) beautiful, unique, mine.
And for listening to music?

There is only Stax. No one else.

Now as to which of the two it shall be? Am giving it a bit of time, we'll see 
(emphasis on "a bit", as i honestly worry they're gonna close shop yet again. Partly their most decidedly refusing to go along with the times in advertising and exposure, partly subpar but el-cheapo "competition" from Chinese brands or that Caldas brand now [i mean Jeesus, bolted wires? Seriously], and partly or rather mostly? The times.. both in what genres are predominant today and in the way folks like to listen to; heck, some actually believe IS the way to listen to. I've no knowledge of Stax's current finances, but given the above, sincerely worry they'll shut down. For good this time. So i won't be waiting too long. Just one last addition please)


----------



## tumpux

No need to worry about Stax’s financial healthy. You want a new toy. 
Get it.


----------



## buzzlulu

Stax was bought and is owned by Edifier - a huge Chinese company.  My understanding is that it is a pet project of the owner who loves Stax.  I don't think they are going anywhere


----------



## JimL11

You may also want to consider the SR-007 MkII. Although it fits in between the L700 and 009 in price, some persons, myself included, prefer it to the 009, when modified with spritzer's port mod. It has a warmer sound, compared to the brighter sounding 009, which can give the impression of more detail. Among others who prefer the SR-007 with port mod to the 009 are Tyll Hertzens, who was the previous editor of InnerFidelity, and Bob Katz, the well known recording engineer - you can do a Google search to read their impressions. Of course, at this level, it's more a matter of personal taste and preference rather than absolutes.


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## 526731 (Feb 16, 2020)

@tumpux Oh that's a given, soon too! Just takes its time unfortunately.
Family, needs, hobbies, only so much one can put aside every month. And so much equipment! Etsuro Nakamichi and son alone ensured i was near broke for many a year; then you have amps, pre amps, cables, bases, feet..



JimL11 said:


> preference



Appreciate the input 
I've seen Spritzer's mod(s) yes and while i've no doubt as to the outcome, it's a matter of budget again; say you're me for one moment.
Do you spend 2500 euro on a headphone whose only connection between band and 'lower casing' (what's the term for this, never learned) is a piece of cloth? What happens when it stretches? Because factor number two, Stax doesn't offer a replacement. I've seen numerous posts referencing stretching or a downright looseness within, how long has it been by now? A few years.. contrast that to decades without issue on any other Stax phone.

Plus, i listen for multiple hours every day and i'm a smoker too; on and off with the headphones every, say, 20 minutes? Cig breaks are taken outside, no smoking near equipment obviously.
That's a lot of strain to put on an already flimsy "mechanism". Had i the budget to replace such an investment every odd year i'd honestly choose them over the 009s, but i'm at a much humbler stratum admittedly. I find it more prudent to stretch me out some more, but for a one-off that will outlast me.

If i may ask you since you've first-hand experience, how does your SRX Plus fare with either Omega please? Tantalising incentives are always welcome ^^
(it's been on my mind since i first read that article of yours, very compelling. And very tempting!)


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## patatchod

The SR-007MkII with the Spritzer's mod is my end game. I've tried the 009 and prefer the 007 MkII. The sound is much more natural, live like. I've never eared some many details during a classical music concert, like 009 give you... For me, the 009 is for listening sound, whilst the 007MkII is for listening music.

The only concern is that the 007MkII needs a powerful amp, like KGSSHV Carbon or BHSE. They still are out of my budget. But I must admit that the SRM-717 is quite good.


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## 526731 (Feb 17, 2020)

Wasn't criticising the how it sounds though, was i.

As to amps, i wouldn't personally consider purchasing any sound equipment that comes with no warranty, nothing 'official' and is nonetheless worth at least 8K (shipping and customs should be factored in); regulations and distance depending, might be even more for some. Yet again so we escape a repeat, nothing to do with how it sounds; more than willing to accept it's as good as it's said it is.
Far as the blue H. goes, one skips the no warranty part, but has still to deal with a pretty much equivalent pricing plus the tube strain which some may not care to consider, but i'd have to. Broken record syndrome, but again nothing to do with how it sounds.
If these are aspects one's willing and able to overlook, nothing more need be said about either of them.

I previously asked JimL for some extra info on the SRX Plus -assuming he was so inclined of course- because while i do remember his own impressions in the article that was back then, v1.0; the design has since been improved by both him and Dr. Gilmore and unless i'm totally off the mark here (am not), this should be a very respectable amp that could easily satisfy most people; without breaking the bank that is.
And while subjective, i also happen to find a charm in both its (Stax) origins and the fact that decades later, it's only technological advancement that has allowed for improvement over the original; the idea behind the SRX remains just as insightful and valid today. Something there worth building on.
* if a downside, that would be getting hold of the PCB; easy to populate one, quite a different thing to sit down and draw it; that's definitely an obstacle. Or, well, is for me at least.

But to each their own needless to say; and should you one day get to acquire either the Carbon or the BHSE, my congratulations in advance.

Addendum: I came here half thinking, half hoping that a 007tii would have been a very modest solution allowing for either candidate. Not two days later and fate has it that what i wanted but refrained from going after years back is what i now see as my only option. I need thus find a way to both inform her of upcoming expenses (always a joy) and prepare for what's sure to follow, lol.
You ever notice how tact goes out the window with close ones? You could be the world's greatest orator, still down to shouting in ten seconds flat


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## JimL11

The amp design of the SRX Plus is unchanged from the article, however I no longer recommend the power supply design from that article. Any of the KG power supplies will work to power the amp.

In terms of the SR-007 Mk1 or MkII, an STM-T1 with the constant current mod will do a satisfactory job of driving it IMHO. In fact I prefer it to the SRM-727 with global feedback mod, as did a couple of my audiophile friends. After comparing both I sold my modded 727 and kept the T1. The SRM-007t II can also be improved with the constant current mod, and spritzer has also modded one to use the 6S4A tubes used in the KGST.


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## 526731 (Feb 18, 2020)

JimL11 said:


> Any of the KG power supplies will work to power the amp
> ...
> spritzer has also modded one to use the 6S4A tubes used in the KGST



Most kind of you to answer; so then the revisions revolved around the power supply, alright. Already have the 'main' files, latest version as found on head-case.org.

Regarding the above, i'm not a fan of toroidals* and that's putting it kindly 
I frankly fail to grasp why one would use them if weight and volume wasn't an issue; and on amps costing that much neither should be.
If i go the Plus way, i'll probably be employing someone to make me a more.. traditional PS.

* unless of course i'm missing something here, i do try to keep up with the times but am also not at your level of proficiency. Then again, i also fail to grasp why anyone would use SMDs on high end equipment if they can avoid them; maybe that gives you an idea about my person.

As to the latter;
Have come across mention of said specific mod in another forum, but sans any instructions (which were not included)? As Spritzer said in that very post i found, "not for the timid".
Barring a diagram or instructions i could have in front of me, this isn't feasible unfortunately.

With the danger of repeating myself, i'd once again thank you for taking the time to assist a stranger; much appreciated Jim.
Perhaps one day soon i could take the liberty of sending you a finished PS gerber, have your thoughts on it? Your input would be highly regarded. Or perhaps posting it here, less intrusive i'd imagine? If that's too much trouble, you may simply opt not to respond of course, no offense will be taken


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## jrfmd

JimL11 said:


> You may also want to consider the SR-007 MkII. Although it fits in between the L700 and 009 in price, some persons, myself included, prefer it to the 009, when modified with spritzer's port mod. It has a warmer sound, compared to the brighter sounding 009, which can give the impression of more detail. Among others who prefer the SR-007 with port mod to the 009 are Tyll Hertzens, who was the previous editor of InnerFidelity, and Bob Katz, the well known recording engineer - you can do a Google search to read their impressions. Of course, at this level, it's more a matter of personal taste and preference rather than absolutes.


i have both the sr007mkII with port mod (much too warm in midbase without the mod) and the 009s.  I listen to the 009s about 95% of the time, some times when the amp is warming up or I'm burnt out of listening to the 009, i find the 007 warm and seductive but, a half hour later I'm listening to the 009's again -- love the detail, deep bass and treble
JRF


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## 526731 (Feb 18, 2020)

Aah, these are wonderful dilemmas 
Would be nice to be in your shoes! Take good care of them both!

Sent an email for a quota on the custom transformer, fully expecting the price tag to be gloriously outrageous ^^
https://www.sowter.co.uk/custom-prices.php

If any of you folks (once again, i lack your knowledge am afraid) know of any others i could contact, by all means inform. Just in case what sowter's asking is too much for me. Which yes, is indeed very probable.
If all else fails (try Wales), i will contact Spritzer for a KG PS. Assuming the man replies to emails from randoms that is.. this is going to be an adventure! Been a while since last one, am admittedly both apprehensive and excited. Good times ahead ^^


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## tumpux

Does anyone have a picture of the SRX Plus amp? Never seen one before.


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## 526731 (Feb 19, 2020)

JimL posted a few in his original article.
You can also google "SRX Plus", first result you'll find is a certain 'SRX-Plus Build Thread' 

(for which i am _so_ thankful, my one obstacle was getting a hold of the main unit's PCB; should you go along that route, don't let the Proteus file format scare you, you can still use any gerber program to view it)

* am mentioning this with ease as the specific thread is public and web cached, with the uploaded files themselves unprotected. Should i have nonetheless overstepped, someone please PM me.


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## Erfan Elahi

hello everyone. A Stax AMP labeled as 100-240v on the back but on the plug says 117v. So changing the plug to 240v will it work on the AMP as I need 240v ?


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## 526731 (Feb 19, 2020)

Erfan Elahi said:


> I need 240v ?



Open it up -you want the bottom exposed- and locate the voltage selector beneath.
If this does not suffice, you need start googleing, plenty of posts detailing a relatively simple procedure.

(note here that while possible on the T1, this doesn't apply universally, later models cannot be converted. You got lucky.. though does beg the question, why go ahead with such a purchase without researching first. What if it was useless to you)


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## Erfan Elahi

Aenra said:


> Open it up -you want the bottom exposed- and locate the voltage selector beneath.
> If this does not suffice, you need start googleing, plenty of posts detailing a relatively simple procedure.
> 
> (note here that while possible on the T1, this doesn't apply universally, later models cannot be converted. You got lucky.. though does beg the question, why go ahead with such a purchase without researching first. What if it was useless to you)


not bought yet! About to grab a used unit here, seller isn't sure himself  thanks for the suggestion though


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## GarageBoy

tumpux said:


> Does anyone have a picture of the SRX Plus amp? Never seen one before.


It's a custom diy amp - so they'll all look different - most of the time, it ends up as an aluminum box with four 12a*7 tubes and two 6sn7s sticking up

Also, I think jiml suggested that you could point to point wire it, it's not that complex of a circuit


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## 526731 (Feb 19, 2020)

Takes a certain skillset to go from a pencil drawn diagram to a ready gerber.
Takes a yet more advanced skillset to then run said gerber and actually understand where you stand, before you start parting with your money.

It is of course good to know one finds it lacking in complexity.


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## newaudio46

I’m looking for a energiser for my 007mk2.
I am considering a carbon, does anyone know where I can get one from in the U.K. or Europe?

I was also considering the Stax SRM-007tII Kimik 2 . Does any one have any opinions on the two 

Thanks


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## 526731 (Feb 21, 2020)

newaudio46 said:


> Does any one have any opinions



Why, "cryogenically treated" tubes! All you'd lack was a Pathos and some Kardas cables and you'd be in for the complete audiophile experience!!
...
Get a Carbon friend, honestly 
As to where from, i'd email mjolnir audio (Spritzer) directly and enquire if i were you.
https://mjolnir-audio.com/contact/

(and should Spritzer not direct you to someone? Personally that is? I'd buy straight from him and customs be damned. I've seen things you may haven't so unless you really, absolutely trust some local retailer? Best you don't chance it. You'd be surprised how often equipment that's sold for 'new' has been opened, disassembled or messed with. And how, even more often, it's been used for auditioning again and again, prior to being sold.. as 'new'. It is sadly a lot more common that one may think, 'professionalism' notwithstanding)


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## JimL11

You can get a Carbon from spritzer at Mjolnir Audio. A Kimik is a gimmick IMHO and not significantly better than a standard SRNM 007tii - others may differ. The Kimik does not address the major problem of the 007tii which is the relative lack of power compared to Stax solid state models. The Carbon is significantly more powerful than any of the Stax amps, OTOH it is significantly more expensive.


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## newaudio46

Thanks Aenra, I will send over a mail shortly.

This is my first experience if using stax, I preferred the 007 over the 009, bit had a change to try the 009S.

How much do carbons normally cost? And do you think getting a new one is essential?

Budged will only allow for the headphones, plus the energiser and cables to run between the energiser and the dac


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## patatchod

The srm717 sounds nicely with my 007mk2 modded...


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## DaddyWhale

newaudio46 said:


> I’m looking for a energiser for my 007mk2.
> I am considering a carbon, does anyone know where I can get one from in the U.K. or Europe?
> 
> I was also considering the Stax SRM-007tII Kimik 2 . Does any one have any opinions on the two
> ...


Please pm me. I know a headfier who may be selling a Mjolnir carbon


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## 526731 (Feb 21, 2020)

newaudio46 said:


> Thanks Aenra
> ..
> And do you think getting a new one is essential?
> ..
> cables



You're more than welcome 

No i do not, long as the used one you'll find is in a good condition and most importantly, untouched. This is something you'll obviously have to verify, case to case.

Leave those out is my humble advice, since you mentioned the magical word; budget.
Get yourself a good amp (and the Carbon is among those), cables are something you can replace later and at your leisure; they won't add even near as much as an amp will (a mere fraction in fact) and no offense meant here, but as much as i can judge from your phrasing, it may be you'd need some thorough research prior to selecting a pair. Plenty of.. not so good stuff out there, price notwithstanding.
Honestly leave those last.

* pricing is something you can find on the Mjolnir website and from which you can deduce what a used amp should go for; i will kindly refrain from making suggestions as it'd be unethical at the least.
** once again, i cannot over-emphasise the words "verify" and "research".

Best of luck with your purchase and above all, enjoy ^^


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## Elevon

Not really related to the amp talk, but I was wondering if anyone else here EQs their Stax. I really liked the sound signature of my L300 Limited out of the box, but at high volume the treble felt a bit sibilant and I wanted a little more meat in the lower midrange. Right now I'm running about 2db boost from the 250-630 hz range and around 2.5db lower above 10k.


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## VRacer-111

Elevon said:


> Not really related to the amp talk, but I was wondering if anyone else here EQs their Stax. I really liked the sound signature of my L300 Limited out of the box, but at high volume the treble felt a bit sibilant and I wanted a little more meat in the lower midrange. Right now I'm running about 2db boost from the 250-630 hz range and around 2.5db lower above 10k.



I EQ my L300 Limited. Run EQ both in Foobar2k and on the RME ADI-2 DAC to enhance the low end some in subbass region (20-60Hz). I find the low end very satisfying on my amp setup which is NAD C275BEE stereo amp + Mjolnir modded SRD-7 estat transformer. No issues with sibilance on my setup so no EQ other than subbass related used to reinforce the low end - I also don't ever listen at high volume levels. Might want to try injecting tubes in your path as well if you have a way of doing so.


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## jsts

Friends, cheers!

It's time to replace the tubes on my SRM-600. I found a description of balance adjustment and offset for my SRM-007t:








> "...adjusting resistors: TVR1, TVR2, TVR4, TVR3.  Next to TVR4 there are two "test and measuring" jumper "TP2", and with TVR3 two jumper "TP1" - they are needed to measure voltage at the cathodes of each of the "half" of the output tubes. Next to the powerful resistors R27 R28 (47K) there are two "long" jumpers (R-CH and L-CH) - they are needed to measure the output voltage and to balance the output stage."



When I opened my SRM600 I did not find any TP1 or other jumpers on the board either.

I need to adjust the balance and offset. Most likely, what I need, I circled it in red:





But is it? On which contacts do I make measurements? Any help?


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## kevin gilmore (Mar 1, 2020)

nope definitely not those

you want the ones labeled yel,grn,wht,red over by the 30K resistors.

measure yel to grn and adjust balance to zero
measure wht to red and adjust other balance to zero
measure yel to ground adjust offset
measure wht to ground adjust other offset

repeat a couple of times


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## jsts (Mar 1, 2020)

kevin gilmore said:


> nope definitely not those
> 
> you want the ones labeled yel,grn,wht,red over by the 30K resistors.
> 
> ...





Mr. Gilmore, I'm very excited about your answer, as always!  I marked again:






Is that correctly now?


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## batfier

Elevon said:


> Not really related to the amp talk, but I was wondering if anyone else here EQs their Stax. I really liked the sound signature of my L300 Limited out of the box, but at high volume the treble felt a bit sibilant and I wanted a little more meat in the lower midrange. Right now I'm running about 2db boost from the 250-630 hz range and around 2.5db lower above 10k.



I'm using EQ for the 009 and other headphones and I'm quite happy with the results. 

But try and error didn't work for me in a consistent way. 

Best results a got with the following settings:

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018

These settings are based on professional measurements. 

I'm using roon for EQ and like it a lot. With RME ADI-2 it works as well, but the number of bands is limited to 5 + Bass + Treble, which is not enough for some headphones.


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## newaudio46

Unfortunately I was not able to purchase the Mjolnir carbon from one of our fellow headfi users.

If anyone knows of another one for sale on the second had market, would you please pm me.


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## Sviatoslav

Apologies if my post is ending up in the wrong thread. I am new to the forum and was advised to post here instead of over in the "Introductions, Help and Recommendations" forum. I would appreciate any help on consolidating the threads into one or to shut down one of them so all discussion is in one place, for all readers' benefit. 

I'm looking for advice in choosing a setup for classical music listening. The headphones shall be electrostatics, but make and model are not decided upon yet, and neither is the amp. Budget is not a primary concern. 

My priorities when choosing an audio component generally are 

1) timbral rightness, 
2) temporal accuracy and 
3) portrayal of minuscle variations in loudness (microdynamics).

"If the midrange isn't right, nothing else matters". An uncoloured midrange is the first thing I listen for in an audio setup. The human voice is particularly revealing of any shortcomings in this area and since I'm listening to a fair amount of operatic recordings and song recitals, this is one of my main interests. Other than that, reproduction defects are easily heard with recordings of speech, and if a recording of a well-known voice doesn't sound right through a component, I will pass it by. 

Real bass has heft, but it also has weight and texture, and real bass is airy and warm (think plucked double-bass or tuba in a real acoustic space rather than synthesised sound). While many components give an impression of heft, weight and texture are many times lacking, and airy and warm qualities to bass are all too rare, even with expensive components. Bass quantity I rarely find an issue even with mini-monitors with restricted low end, but bass quality is important: again, I prefer it uncoloured, well-defined and well-paced. 

Timbral aberrations in the treble I find very objectionable and I would reject any setup that emphasises upper frequencies or were downright harsh, spitty, sibilllant (or the like). Generally, I find a slightly rolled-off treble response much more acceptable than a highlighted upper register. (In real space, treble response is naturally attenuated as sound waves travel through air, but I know of no natural ambiance that would accentuate higher frequencies.) 

Temporal accuracy is a necessity not only for following a musical line (on a macro-level, as it were), but to appreciating the interplay between a soloist and his orchestra, between the musicians of a quartet or any other formation, between a singer and an accompanist. Even in a solo performance, the correct representation of the temporal relationships is critical to my musical enjoyment: between the different voices in a piano piece, between playing 'a tempo' and ever so slightly off, and so forth. Temporal accuracy, then, is concerned not with 'drive' or 'slam' but with the organisation of the musical development in time, with the relationship between the musical flow and an (imagined) external metre on the one hand and, even more, with the relationships of musical elements inter se, the tiny variations that turn musical performance into interpretation. I have found many audio components, even very costly ones, surprisingly lacking in this domain. 'Drive' in itself is not sufficient but inevitably results from a system that is temporally accurate. 

Timbral rightness and temporal accuracy, when occuring together, make possible what I perceive as a cohesive musical rendition, for lack of a better word. 

Minuscle loudness variations are vastly more important to me than are major jumps: the difference in the sound from a piano hammer's attack on the stinrg depending on the pianist's touch, the bowing of a violinist, the decay of a triangle stroke are all dependent on microdynamic portrayal and they constitute the very personality of an instrument, of a voice, of an interpretation. Large loudness swings are important, I cannot deny as a Wagner enthusiast, but far less so than microdynamics. 

I'm a conservatory-trained classical pianist myself and I've had more than 20 years expossure to high-end audio at home, though always loudspeaker-centric. In system-building I prefer a warmer over a cooler sound (in digtial front-ends, think dCS rather than Ayre), finesse over heft (in amplification, think high-powered class A and never class D or G), a lively and breathing rendition over 'slam' (in loudspeakers, think electrostatics rathter than Wilson). This is not to say that sound volume and scale aren't important, they are (no single-ended class A triode amplifiers here). A system's ability to convey the weight of a grand piano sound is vital, its ability to suggest the power of an orchestra in full cry is crucial, but sound quality always takes precedence over sheer quantity.

My headphone listening experience, until now, has been very limited. I have owned only a gifted pair of Beyerdynamic DT-990 and a pair of Sennheiser HD600 for many years and they have seen little use. The Beyerdynamic DT-990 I positively dislike (bright, verging on harsh and spitty and in my face and I would never have bought it myself) but the Sennheiser HD600 is satisfying and a bargain at the price, too (I chose the HD600 over the HD650 and the HD660). Only during the past year have I started listening to higher-quality headphones as I have bought a pair of Audeze LCD-X, mainly for listening in hotel rooms when traveling, driven by a Chord Mojo / Poly combination (I chose the Chord Mojo over the Chord Hugo2 that, to my ears, is voiced on the bright side of reality and I find it much easier to live with the recessed treble of the Mojo).

I have read through the threads that the site search returns as hits for my enquiry, but major questions remain and I hope someone will be kind enough to direct me toward the right components for building a system to my liking. I do have the opportunity to audition Stax earspeakers where I live, but only with Stax amps. I have heard the Stax L-300, L-500 and L-700 at shows along with the SR-007 mk II and the SR--009, only the SR-009S I haven't heard at all. All my listening has been with the SRM-727 II and the SRM-007t II energisers (all phones via both amps). I'm inclined to settle for a Stax pro bias setup for flexibility and I might consider the Mr. Speakers Voce as an alternative. As for amplification, I'm open to any well-reputed brand and model.

My general impressions from my show listening sessions with the Stax headphones and amps are:

- that there was, genreally, surprisingly little to differentiate between the SR-009 and the SR-007 mk II given the price differential with the SR-L700 tight on their heels; I assume this is due to inadequate amplification 
- that I came away impressed by the SR-009 but fearing that its treble response combined with the amount of detail conveyed could prove just too much for me in the long run 
- that the SR-007 mk II has the most relaxed and listenable presentation of them all but seems sluggish and lacking in pace when driven by the SRM-007t II 
- that I generally prefer the SRM-007t II over the SRM-727 II for its midrange and better rendition of microdetail as opposed to macro-swings (with its stated limitation when driving the SR-007 mk II, cf. above) 
- that the SRM-727 II introduces (or exaggerates?) grain and sibillance the SR-009 treble. 

I am left with the impression that the higher-level Stax earspeakers were not driven appropriately by the amplification on hand and, hence, I don't find myself comfortable judging them. 

The obvious thing to do now would be to audition the headphones in question, the top three Stax offerings (SR-007 mk II, SR-009 and SR-009S) and theMr. Speakers Voce as driven by high-quality amplification but, as per above, I don't have access to auditioning other amps than Stax locally. My idea, then, was to decide on and to buy an amplifier as a starting point and work the headphones choice from there (as I do have the possibility of auditioning the complete Stax line-up of headphones locally).

I've been thinking about the HeadAmp Blue Hawaii SE and the Mjölnir KGSSHV (Carbon?) and I was wondering what would be the best 'entry point' when I cannot audition before purchasing. 

Any advice on amps, headphones and combinations given my above preferences would be very much appreciated.


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## plinth

Sviatoslav said:


> Apologies if my post is ending up in the wrong thread. I am new to the forum and was advised to post here instead of over in the "Introductions, Help and Recommendations" forum. I would appreciate any help on consolidating the threads into one or to shut down one of them so all discussion is in one place, for all readers' benefit.
> 
> I'm looking for advice in choosing a setup for classical music listening. The headphones shall be electrostatics, but make and model are not decided upon yet, and neither is the amp. Budget is not a primary concern.
> 
> ...


 I was in your position and could only audition Stax with Stax amps. I took a risk by ordering the 007 Mk2 and then ordered a Mjölnir Carbon. It was a world away from the Stax amplification. I also use Chord, listening right now to Chord TT2, Chord MScaler, Optical Rendu, With Roon on Small Green Computer Sonic Transporter. I could not be happier and am planning no upgrades.


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## paradoxper

It's quite clear you'll have a preference for the 007. So the choice to scale is right to the Carbon or extend you budget to at least $10k to the top for a DIY T2. 
Going in quite blind, I think with the T2 (once you familiarize yourself with its capability and addicting effortlessness,) you'll find yourself lusting for an 009.


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## JimL11

I haven't heard the Carbon, but I do have the Blue Hawaii SE and it's excellent. It does have a bit of tube tonality, which I find preferable to all solid state, although in that respect the best I've heard is an SRM-727II with global feedback modification, which significantly improves its linearity over the stock amp. However, I actually preferred my SRM-T1 with constant current mod to the 727 even though the latter was significantly more expensive. The modded T1 greatly ameliorates the defects of the stock T1 (and 007) which includes the somewhat soft bass, and limited ability to drive the SR-007 especially at higher sound levels, and sounds more refined with better midrange than the 727 IMO.  The Blue Hawaii betters the modded T1 with greater drive capability and further refinement. I don't think you would be at all dis-satisfied with the Blue Hawaii, and with that amp I prefer the SR-007 Mk II with port mod to the SR-009 which I find to be on the bright side - have not heard the SR-009s, however. FWIW, the Tyll Hertsens, the former editor of the Innerfideilty website, and Bob Katz, the noted record producer, both preferred the SR-007 Mk II with port mod to the 009. Bob Katz uses his with a Mjolnir Carbon (I don't know if he heard the Blue Hawaii before purchasing his Carbon, however). The reason why I suggest the Blue Hawaii for you is your statement that you preferred the 007 midrange to the 727 midrange, and the two amps differ primarily in tube vs solid state output stages. Also it is my impression that persons who have compared the two seem to report that the BH midrange is a little bit better, while the Carbon has more bass impact, and the big difference between the two is EL34 tube outputs in the BH vs solid state outputs in the Carbon.


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## 526731 (Mar 5, 2020)

Sviatoslav... not Richter though, one assumes 

Classical music for me is detail and nuances first and foremost. Take your Richter for example; his enigmatic character, the ambivalence he injected into everything. Somewhere inbetween the same notes, same tempo, same everything, he managed to add a little something, which you won't hear with one set of equipment, but will with another.
That's when it's no longer a 'piece', transcends into something else. That's detail.
Today we call that "bright". As if it's bad.
Then again how else would we manage to sell inferior equipment that's "musical"?

So if you stick to your very wise plan, buy an amp first and audition later, you'll know best and that's that.
If however you asked because you cannot wait, two things:
i) neither of the amps you tried (if default/unmodified) can show the Omegas' true potential.
ii) i'd go with the 009s in your shoes; forget my personal misgivings regarding the 007 mk2's cloth-tied headband and its longevity thereof, focus on all the 'reviews' you may have come to read. See if maybe, just maybe, the ones writing them have tastes and preferences that may entail a thing or two in themselves; and whether, the typical "disadvantages" notwithstanding (or should we call them expected traits?), the 009s are perhaps a lot more "Stax-like" than the 007s. Which ultimately, i'd think is what Stax customers are after; or have been, for multiple decades.

Since you have the budget for it however, best if you buy the amp first 
(which brings me to my single asterisk, regarding the Carbon.. too much silver; i can see why, but i can also foresee situations where that would become problematic. Were i in the market for one, i'd try and see what i could glean about that)


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## DaddyWhale (Mar 5, 2020)

Aenra said:


> Sviatoslav... not Richter though, one assumes
> 
> Classical music for me is detail and nuances first and foremost. Take your Richter for example; his enigmatic character, the ambivalence he injected into everything. Somewhere inbetween the same notes, same tempo, same everything, he managed to add a little something, which you won't hear with one set of equipment, but will with another.
> That's when it's no longer a 'piece', transcends into something else. That's detail.
> ...


Hi, Aenra. I wonder if you could clarify something for me. When you say that there's too much silver in the Carbon, do you mean the Mjolnir KGSSHV Carbon *CC*, which has silver wiring? The regular Carbon, I don't believe, uses silver.

OR did you mean that the Carbon costs too much (silver)? If so, I would agree that it is cheaper to build one oneself rather than buying from a builder.

Thanks


----------



## paradoxper

Build one yourself...for cheaper. 

How enlightening.


----------



## DaddyWhale (Mar 5, 2020)

Hi @Aenra!

In my last post, I addressed you as "zebra" rather than aenra (since corrected). Stupid spelling autocorrect! I did not intend to call you a 4-legged striped beast that roams the savannas.!


----------



## 526731 (Mar 5, 2020)

DaddyWhale said:


> Hi @Aenra!
> 
> In my last post, I addressed you as "zebra" rather than aenra (since corrected). Stupid spelling autocorrect! I did not intend to call you a 4-legged striped beast that roams the savannas.!



Who told him i'm hairy! Speak up!
Am not striped though 
(and no offense taken, lol, was funny actually)

As to your question, my fault indeed for not having clarified, i was referring to the Carbon CC.. variant..? Should have specified.

As to paradoxper's insinuation, assuming it was intended for me (offensively or otherwise), no friend, that wasn't what i wanted to hint at.
And honestly? Who told you building something of that calibre yourself is cheaper? Retail vs wholesale alone can make a noticeable difference (one custom trans versus a thousand to name one example). Additionally, one's attention to detail, ability to 'sacrifice' or 'invest' at will, sans timelines or market demographics on top?
Try 'near always more expensive' for better accuracy.

Post Scriptum: Am old and slow. It occured to me it might have been lack of awareness prompting your response; in which case? Succinctly put, copper, silver and rhodium have different accoustical properties, especially (or rather, most noticeably) when stacked. That's all i was hinting at.


----------



## paradoxper (Mar 5, 2020)

Employing literacy, it was a cheeky jab at DaddyWhale. Considering your desire to posture, you are clueless.
Your argument in context of retail vs wholesale is a clear case of ignorant obfuscation.

Take whatever amp you fancy, the dividend of sum-of-the-parts and get back to me.


----------



## 526731 (Mar 5, 2020)

If nothing else, you're frank and direct, which i'd have admired, these days even more so. Would have, had the actual context called for it.
As it is, you strike me as complexed, needlessly offensive and a touch immature, but free world they say.. many rights and entitlement galore.

Regardless, reading comprehension please, a must for forums. I gave a single example to highlight one factor among many others and additionally mentioned how "personal projects" tend to get overblown and/or introduce issues or complexities that ultimately affect the total cost.
So if for example you'd be willing to spend roundabouts 8k all in given postal and customs (or already have) for an amp with "my custom potensiometer", sans any details or even a picture of what that is, awesome and go for it. Again, free world.
I know that had _i_ been building this from scratch and had i the choice? Which i do actually? I'd be looking at close to 1k for a pot alone (501 or a Gilles). Retail you see, and abroad 
(this is again just another single example, but feel free to dissect if it helps you. Maybe you'd pick an RK27 for an 8k-ish amp just to prove how wrong i am)

Anyway, am derailing; suffice it to say this response is not solely for your sake, but also for the poster originally enquiring, context of the conversation still revolving around his original question.
Like you, he's free to disregard my opinion. Something however tells me that un-like you, he will either refrain from addressing me altogether, or choose to do so in a more civil manner. I will leave the why to you.


----------



## paradoxper (Mar 5, 2020)

Aenra said:


> If nothing else, you're frank and direct, which i would admire, these days even more. Would have, had the context called for it.
> As it is, you strike me as complexed, needlessly offensive and a touch immature, but free world they say.. so many rights and entitlement galore.
> 
> Regardless, reading comprehension please, a must for forums. I gave a single example to highlight one factor among many others and additionally mentioned how "personal projects" tend to get overblown and/or introduce issues or complexities that ultimately effect the base total cost. Base as in pre-postal and customs.
> ...



I take no offense to your impression of me.

Your one example is of worst case scenario. You're also compounding the costs of a DIY one-off with full-blown manufacturing as an crutched argument.

As I don't know you, I don't know of your custom potentiometer and likely wouldn't trust it based off this back-and-forth.
Also, not sure what place that fits into this discussion. I'd pick an RK50 or, as I have in the past, a custom digital attenuator in the DIY T2 from the mafia or the Acoustic-Dimension 41-step attenuator I used in a KGSSHV.

Anyways, let's not cry over a few harsh words or disagreements.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Random and I think this is a long shot, but someone here may be able to help.. I'm a bit desperate at this point lol. I have two pairs of HE60's, along with one HEV70. I also have a Woo Audio Wes, which I actually love. My HE60 to stax adapter crapped out and I have no soldering skills whatsoever.. one of the cans also needs to be recabled (have the extra cable handy). 

I've messaged quite a few users and companies, but I haven't had any luck at all. Does anyone know of ANYONE (reputable) that I can possibly tap to do the work? Absolutely willing to pay a premium, as I'm going to be forced to sell them if I can't use them with my WES. Or sell the WES, neither of which I want to do. Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## 526731 (Mar 6, 2020)

number1sixerfan said:


> My HE60 to stax adapter crapped out and I have no soldering skills whatsoever



I'd go with Spritzer were i in your shoes:







https://mjolnir-audio.com/special-projects-and-used-amplifiers-sources-etc/

However, should you for whatever reason choose not to, a simple Google-ing would have pointed you to alternatives available from ebay sellers. Given the cost however, perhaps not adviseable.
* And good luck


----------



## number1sixerfan

Aenra said:


> I'd go with Spritzer were i in your shoes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dude... I've been googling and using ebay for weeks and have found nothing that's available now--everything looked old lol. I did think about contacting Spritzer, but was unsure as it's been years since I've been on here. Thank you so much, this is a huge help.. going to reach out immediately.


----------



## arnaud

number1sixerfan said:


> Dude... I've been googling and using ebay for weeks and have found nothing that's available now--everything looked old lol. I did think about contacting Spritzer, but was unsure as it's been years since I've been on here. Thank you so much, this is a huge help.. going to reach out immediately.



your headfi name vaguely sounds familiar to me, you were an active poster in the old days? We’re part of a headfi dinausors, a nearly extinct species .


----------



## number1sixerfan

arnaud said:


> your headfi name vaguely sounds familiar to me, you were an active poster in the old days? We’re part of a headfi dinausors, a nearly extinct species .



Ha, yea that's me. Used to be on here everyday for hours lol. I got out of the hobby years ago mainly due to needed to use speakers more often, but I'm slowly coming back into it. Just hoping I don't break the bank in doing so like I did then lol.. good to see some old folks still around!!


----------



## 526731 (Mar 7, 2020)

Age does things to folks, so.. 

Any alternatives for Amphenol multipin interconnects? (PS to main)
Would have sworn there was this Japanese brand, even better than Amphenol, but it's not Furutech, checked their catalogue, it's not Hirose -i think-, must be some other i can't recollect; unless i'm mistaken anyway? They also had the interlocking mechanism, i do recall that much. I think.
If i saw one, it'd probably dawn on me, but Google images haven't been of help, though it may be just me using the wrong keywords.

Help would be appreciated.


----------



## noirceurfg

Hi ! First sorry for my bad english. Is it true that Stax is working on a new SR 007-Omega, os it's just a rumor ?


----------



## padam

noirceurfg said:


> Hi ! First sorry for my bad english. Is it true that Stax is working on a new SR 007-Omega, or it's just a rumor ?




According to this interview, yes, they are working on a new Omega, but they will take their time.
The SR-007 Mk3 with minor tweaks is also a possibility, but that's just speculation.


----------



## 526731 (Mar 12, 2020)

I'd rather they re-released the SRX mkIII Pro, would gladly settle for that. As it was too, keep the cost down, one can always change pads and cable on their own.
Or cheaper yet, as they _were_ cheaper back then, perhaps an equivalent of the black and gold SR5 variant.

Or maybe a new Sigma? Plenty of value there too.

Both c/would land around the 1-1.5K mark too, which is good for both sides.
Am sure they know their business best, but i don't see a new-new Omega as a priority exactly*. Used to be one could purchase both eliptical and rounded drivers' earphones without needing a fortune; and without said housings having _nothing but cloth_ to keep them together if i may add.
I can understand a certain reluctance and need to keep things tight, previous circumstances coming to mind, but you have careful and then you have conservative without reason.
(in fairness though, only they know their sales; no idea how many Sigmas or SRs they sold back then)

* especially given the inhouse options for amplification. The first Omega, one had the option of a T2 to drive it; what is there now? A 6k's worth of a 717 (T8000 in a nutshell). Best if they focused on the lower end a bit more, or designed an amp worthy of being called 'flagship' first. Making it weirder still that they never launched the revised T2 edition, all we have is a picture.


----------



## catscratch

Stax need to do a lot. Their amps are stuck in the 1980s and offer really bad value for money. The Lambdas are solid buys at the price but the 1970s form factor and build quality doesn't fit in today's market, and they need to straighten out the FR too. The SR-007 performs very well... when modded, equalized, driven with a nuclear reactor and tweaked to hell and back.

All of these are pretty major issues, but the reality of running a small business - which Stax undoubtedly is - is that you never have enough people, or enough money, to do everything you need to do.

We're also in a time when dynamic headphones have become competitive with electrostatics, planar magnetics are back in a big way, and other tech is coming into the scene too. So Stax _really_ have a lot on their plate. I hope they can do it. I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## K3cT

Well said, catscratch. With modern headphones like the Utopia, Abyss or SR1a they are *real damn close* to TOTL stats in terms of resolve and speed but without the hassle or questionable after sales support.


----------



## 526731 (Mar 13, 2020)

Hassle? Let us please not exaggerate, or mix the empirical with fact.
Some of the models i own are about 40years old now? Bought them myself, have not had the slightest issue with any of them, ever. There's this piece of paper inside the box, advising one to treat them as what they are, a precision instrument. If heeded, they can outlast you.
As to amps, well.. did you purchase a used one? One from the grey market? Because those bought from a local representative need only be mailed back to them and they take care of the servicing. If that isn't the case, the blame lies on the representative, not Stax. You should have contacted them and let them know if so.
Same goes with used headphones, which i see is a trend, the electrostat's extremely fragile nature notwithstanding; this is an expensive hobby, we buy new, or we accept the inherent risks thereof.
* likewise with "modding" your new headphone, because certain "someones" told you to; if doing post-purchase alterations, ie voiding your warranty is difficult for you? Why, i'd say we're on a good track, wouldn't you?

I'd also have a lot to say about the previous poster's message (stuck in the past), but in one sentence i'd state that on the contrary, i happen to wish we went back to that past. Some of the electrets they launched have yet to even be matched, let alone surpassed. And did that at prices even folks like me could afford.
If you want progress, you picked the wrong company. All they have done (success rate varying) is reiterate on said same basic principles and implementations. Expecting otherwise, today or in the future, is your (read: figuratively) fault entirely.

Should one find that a 5.5K (at minimum) headphone, that "gets real close" at that, ie not even _as_ good, is a welcome alternative...? Why by all means go for it.

Their amp section is in need of improvement, yes, but i'm not sure if that is grasped the way i meant it to (my criteria are not the ones i typically find expressed here), or if some understand the limitations (supply, logistics, etc.) they have as both a proper company and a small one at that. Put differently, an utterly derogative dismissal is a touch excessive.

And please accept my apologies in advance for all the above, but misgivings i may happen to have set aside, i wouldn't wish to be seen as sharing such a negative mindset; saying this as i was the first to complain unfortunately


----------



## DougD

Aenra said:


> ... snip ...
> 
> Their amp section is in need of improvement, yes, but i'm not sure if that is grasped the way i meant it to (my criteria are not the ones i typically find expressed here), or if some understand the limitations (supply, logistics, etc.) they have as both a proper company and a small one at that. Put differently, an utterly derogative dismissal is a touch excessive.
> 
> ... snip ...



I don't have a large investment in Stax gear ... I have an SR-X Mk III I bought new in 1978 or 79, which still works well, and a rebuilt SRS-12A "integrated amp" that seems to work reasonably well ... but agree that the availability of amps for Stax is a problem.

If I were Stax mgmt, I'd try to outsource that part of the operation: license the latest design from Dr KG, and contract with a top-tier Chinese outfit to build a bunch. 

The market for new Stax earspeakers would expand considerably if the logjam on matching quality amps was broken, and Stax itself probably doesn't have the bandwidth to be making significant progress on both fronts at the same time.

If I were an audio company that already has a good working relationship with a high-quality Chinese fabricator, I'd be tempted to try to cut Stax off at the pass. Seems like it'd be a relatively low risk expansion to the product line.

(My advice is free.)


----------



## paradoxper (Mar 13, 2020)

You see what STAX offers. Now you want more but in what way exactly. STAX to license a Kevin Gilmore design and at what price?

I don't know how you feel about competitive amplifiers or how aware of the past you are.

Eddie Current Elektra $3500. Tanked.
Cavalli Audio Liquid Lightning $4200. Tanked.
WOO BS. Incompetent. Somehow around. Severe market-value failure.
Audio Valve BS. Irrelevant.
HeadAmp BHSE $6k.

Commissioned Octave $1k-ish
Commissioned KGSSHV $2k-ish
Commissioned KGST $2k-ish
Commissioned Carbon $5k-ish
Commissioned Blue Hawaii $5k-ish
Commissioned Megatron $6-ish
Commissioned DIY T2 $10k-ish

Would you extrapolate a commercial KGSSHV retail for $4k?

Where and what would you guys want to proposition STAX to squeeze in here?

I don't see it.


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## Eich1eeF

paradoxper said:


> Would you extrapolate a commercial KGSSHV retail for $4k?


That one was called the 727 (minus the global feedback mod). They retailed for a lot less than that, and 4 resistors don't make up for the difference, although the improved power supply of the "real" KGSSHV would probably drive up the price noticeably.


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## protoss (Mar 13, 2020)

This is what these people want. A Chinese versions of all of the above. I rather have original Staxs or a real KG amp. But hey people want this Chinese stuff.

So here it is;

KGSSHV mini clone -- *$800*








Grounded Grid (KGPT) STAX Electrostatic Ear Amplifier - *$2880*








Mega STAX 009 electrostatic ear amplifier -* $3800*









KG STAX T2 patch SR-009 electrostatic ear amplifier -* $7000*


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## Whitigir

protoss said:


> This is what these people want. A Chinese versions of all of the above. I rather have original Staxs or a real KG amp. But hey people want this Chinese stuff.
> 
> So here it is;
> 
> ...


Those above are more like scammers.  Pictures don’t belong to them.  It belong to other builders from the real deal.  Do not fall for it

I am selling my Stax system.  If anyone interested, this is one of a life time opportunity


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## paradoxper (Mar 13, 2020)

Eich1eeF said:


> That one was called the 727 (minus the global feedback mod). They retailed for a lot less than that, and 4 resistors don't make up for the difference, although the improved power supply of the "real" KGSSHV would probably drive up the price noticeably.



That is oversimplification. Otherwise the 727 is just a 717 minus a resistor.
Or the BHSE is just a T2 minus the input stage.

And I guess we can pretend the 727 sounded just fine without the global feedback.

Let's not cherrypick.


----------



## protoss

Whitigir said:


> Those above are more like scammers.  Pictures don’t belong to them.  It belong to other builders from the real deal.  Do not fall for it
> 
> I am selling my Stax system.  If anyone interested, this is one of a life time opportunity



Scammers? ... But I actually heard the clone thou. Its nice lol. 

But the real question is why you leaving the Staxs game? You like something else? RAAL or something?


----------



## paradoxper

protoss said:


> This is what these people want. A Chinese versions of all of the above. I rather have original Staxs or a real KG amp. But hey people want this Chinese stuff.



Ok. And realistically, for example, you would anticipate STAX offering a revised T2 for a measly $7k?
Or back to the more feasibly exampled, you would anticipate STAX offering a KGSSHV "clone" for under $1k?

As I know the costs of the T2 you exampled as it was my commission, you think far too charitably of how STAX could ever operate.


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## Whitigir (Mar 13, 2020)

protoss said:


> Scammers? ... But I actually heard the clone thou. Its nice lol.
> 
> But the real question is why you leaving the Staxs game? You like something else? RAAL or something?



No, my life style has changed for a while now.  I have been trying to keep Stax, but I don’t have time to dedicated toward it as much as I used to. Nowadays, I have to be running around too much.  So I will downgrade to a small nearfield and dynamic phones (800s)

From those pictures. I know for a fact that the last one is from Kerry newest T2 design with many SMd and miniaturizing.  The one next to is is from Mjolnir Audio, you can see the lettering


----------



## protoss (Mar 13, 2020)

Whitigir said:


> So I will downgrade to a small nearfield and dynamic phones.



Truest words ever. Same.  Something easy and dynamic or Planar goodiness. Or something like a Panda THX or a similar thing like a Ananda BT 

The future of headphones seems like it heading to a amp/dac inside of the headphone with BT capabilities. Traditional headphones most likely will fade.

Unless STAXs comes up with a *BT* 007 or 009 with amp and dac inside the cups or THX stuff... its time to move on


----------



## Whitigir

It still has it merits of which I don’t have the leisure and niches to enjoy anymore due to life style changes ...sad, really


----------



## tumpux

Whitigir said:


> It still has it merits of which I don’t have the leisure and niches to enjoy anymore due to life style changes ...sad, really



sorry to hear that..
Hopefully the t2 will landed in a new owner.


----------



## Mach3

Sad to see another member leave the proper summit fi.


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## 98664c3yijh (Mar 15, 2020)

Sviatoslav,

I have 007MkI (with 009 modded earpads) and BHSE. I jumped into BHSE without auditioning after living for years with SRM-717. This was an epiphany, I needed about 2-3 months to understand and learn what this amp does and redigest my musical collection. It sounded involving even with a crappy source (youtube from mobile), not to mention advanced ones (I have a TT with 2 arms/carts plus a supertuner). The only thing I do now is investing in better tubes. I listen to exclusively classical  (from baroque to 20th century).

Cheers

EDIT: Glass surfaces have a tendency to accentuate HF



Sviatoslav said:


> Apologies if my post is ending up in the wrong thread. I am new to the forum and was advised to post here instead of over in the "Introductions, Help and Recommendations" forum. I would appreciate any help on consolidating the threads into one or to shut down one of them so all discussion is in one place, for all readers' benefit.
> 
> I'm looking for advice in choosing a setup for classical music listening. The headphones shall be electrostatics, but make and model are not decided upon yet, and neither is the amp. Budget is not a primary concern.
> 
> ...


----------



## 98664c3yijh

On the subject of leaving the summit fi: These are all very individual decisions. In the last 1.5 years I've been living in another city that my system is, had no chance to move it so far, and I get to listen to it only a few days per month. Yet, it gives me such an unbelievable pleasure that instead of selling it, I've been actually investing quite a lot in it. The latest being Sansui TU-X1 supertuner and Decca London Reference cartridge. Both with my 007mkI/BHSE combo create absolutely magical listening machine. I keep buying LP's like crazy recently too. The plan is though to move it to my current location no matter what (with the racking it's about 800kg weight!)

Cheers


----------



## number1sixerfan

Please forgive the copy and paste post, but I have limited time to decide.. post from other stax thread:

Could use a few opinions from people that have heard both.. reading this thread it's really hard to get an idea of the differences between the 009 and 009s.. read one post that said the vocals are thinner on the 009s and another that said vice versa. I've been in this hobby a long time, so I do get it. lol.. it's normal and going to happen.

You can see my sig below, but I have the BHSE and* Woo Audio WES (which btw, they are both top of the line, just different.. I now don't know if I can give up either lol). I have the HE60, MK1 is coming tuesday, and I have the chance to purchase either the 009 or 009s in the next 24hrs. I really don't want to have to buy both to decide, as I may end up in the same situation as with the WES/BHawaii lol.

For people that have heard both, which have you preferred and with what music? Thanks in advance!


----------



## DougD

protoss said:


> This is what these people want. A Chinese versions of all of the above. I rather have original Staxs or a real KG amp. But hey people want this Chinese stuff.
> 
> So here it is;
> 
> ...



I don't think people are really WANTING these amps from crypto-anonymous sources. 

What they WANT is to be able to buy amps-for-Stax that don't constrain the listening experience that the Stax earspeakers can deliver. In the absence of "name brand" solutions, some shoppers are willing to take a gamble on a no-name product offering they see, but most will not. 

That said, it's an open question on how large the demand really is for top-quality amps for Stax, whether sold under the Stax name or by others.


----------



## protoss (Mar 18, 2020)

Its not crypto sources lol. 
https://www.myheadfi.com/?s=stax&post_type=product

Stax gear was always was not for the average listener. It was for people with deep pockets.

Now their amps are and were excellent. They had about 5 great to fantastic amps, T1, T1S, T1W, 717 and T2. Decent price to extremely expensive that bankrupt the company. And all 3rd party amps strive to become a clone of the infamous T2.

Back to constraining the listener? It's kind of hard for a $500 amp or 1K amp to not be constraining sadly. Unless you buy a use T1 and mod it. It's also not the amp I believe, I blame the headphones themselves. They need to make efficient headphones. Easy to drive 007 with a $500 amp will be ground breaking.

Over time, this will happen. But not now.


@number1sixerfan

009 and 009S is like HD800 and HD800S

You can say one is more refine. But loses the technicality of the former. Its debated.
The 009S is slightly refine and warmer to me, than the orginal. Go with the 009S with a grain of salt.


----------



## Mach3

Anyone got the KGHSSV non carbon and using it with 009 or 007?
I find it a bad pairing with the 007. Sound is incoherent, small sound stage.


----------



## tumpux

It’s fine.. 


until I compare it with a newer design.


----------



## georgep

Mach3 said:


> Anyone got the KGHSSV non carbon and using it with 009 or 007?
> I find it a bad pairing with the 007. Sound is incoherent, small sound stage.



That is odd to hear given that the KGSSHV was the gold standard of electrostatic amplifiers prior to the carbon (other than the t2 and the bhse), and universally recommended to be paired with the 007.


----------



## joseph69

Mach3 said:


> Anyone got the KGHSSV non carbon and using it with 009 or 007?
> I find it a bad pairing with the 007. Sound is incoherent, small sound stage.


I had the Mjolnir KGSShv, KGST and BHSE and found the 007mk2 to pair well with all three amps, but the KGSShv & BHSE really made them shine.


----------



## 526731

Would anyone happen to have any recommendations for an SR series compatible headband?
Looking to replace my originals, ideally with something non-synthetic.


----------



## bmichels (Mar 19, 2020)

*A new source joined the BHSE + SR009s team *: a refurbished "vintage" 1970's Thorens *TD160 + SME Serie 2 +Shure V15 III *with a EAT E-Glo Petit Phono preamp.

Indeed* I decided to explore to the obscure side of the force: VINYL.*  
The sound is quite different from the same track coming from my Aurender W20: warmer... in a good way.

So, with booth, digital & Analog sources, I am now100% ready for staying at home until the virus disapear...




















*And some brand new vinyl arrived to feed the system.... All remastered Audiophile versions, some being LP 45 rpm....*













not to forget some HARIBO Sweets delivered by AMAZON...




VINYL + STAX + HARIBO + AMAZON =  my own "survival kit " for staying locked at home few weeks.


----------



## Mach3

Aenra said:


> Would anyone happen to have any recommendations for an SR series compatible headband?
> Looking to replace my originals, ideally with something non-synthetic.



You gonna have to be more specific. The SR series range from way back like my SR-1 1968-69 to my SR-009 BK 2018


----------



## 526731 (Mar 20, 2020)

Mach3 said:


> You gonna have to be more specific



Point.. 
Meant old SRs, such as SR-3, 5 and X.
And i was thinking in Greek, i meant the pad attaching to their headband, not the stem entire; my apologies.

Current approach (once COVID allows for strolls again anyway) is to visit a seamstress with dimensions at hand, have her sew me something that's leather, or is foam surrounded by leather. It's just two very thin metal bands, which is what makes it problematic; i think most ready-made head..pads..that's what i should call them? would either be loose, or if fitting, would be for cheaper headphones, aka not from leather. Real(tm) or otherwise ^^


----------



## MacedonianHero

georgep said:


> That is odd to hear given that the KGSSHV was the gold standard of electrostatic amplifiers prior to the carbon (other than the t2 and the bhse), and universally recommended to be paired with the 007.



Totally agree with you George! BTW, hope you and the family are all doing well.


----------



## Mach3

Could it be because the KGSSHV I have is the non-Sanyo version?


----------



## 526731

In the off chance this isn't in vain;

If in Athens, Greece and in possession of a BH, Megatron or a Carbon, do PM me if you'd so be inclined.
Barring COVID-related shipping delays/embargoes, will be finalising my SRX Plus build sometime next month. Am interested in direct comparisons.

(reading comments is one thing, listening in person another; plus, i don't know what mats others have used, or how well they built it)


----------



## number1sixerfan (Mar 22, 2020)

number1sixerfan said:


> Please forgive the copy and paste post, but I have limited time to decide.. post from other stax thread:
> 
> Could use a few opinions from people that have heard both.. reading this thread it's really hard to get an idea of the differences between the 009 and 009s.. read one post that said the vocals are thinner on the 009s and another that said vice versa. I've been in this hobby a long time, so I do get it. lol.. it's normal and going to happen.
> 
> ...




Update.. ended up with* the 009. And out of the BHSE it's just insane. Still a bit torn over the two amps and again will make a small mini impression thread after more time.. Each headphone is technically capable, fun, punchy and enjoyable out of the WES. The weight of the music and bass impact has a slight edge.. but the BHSE is technically better in many other aspects (detail, soundstage, speed and openness) and just gets out of the way. The difference in each can out of the BHSE becomes more valuable/discernible and you just get lost in the music with each. I'm pretty sure I'll keep it.. more impressed by the Woo than I thought I would be though, very different presentations in each amp suitable for different listeners.. I'll make that clear who I think that is when I sell it.

As for the MK1 and 009 I just acquired.. superb phones.. two of the best I've ever heard along with the HE60 (009 seems a bit better than HE60 overall, the senns just have a bit better tonality imo) and L3000 (this can is just far too different than any stax lol, but up there all time to me). Keep in mind I haven't heard ANY of the new flagships.. would be very interested in learning if some of the newer dynamic cans are this good given the Stax setups do cost a hefty premium.


----------



## protoss

number1sixerfan said:


> ended up the 009



You couldn't have gone wrong in anyway. They are both great. But I would still pick the mk1, he60 and of course the L3000 over the 009 anyday


----------



## number1sixerfan

protoss said:


> You couldn't have gone wrong in anyway. They are both great. But I would still pick the mk1, he60 and of course the L3000 over the 009 anyday



009 is quite a bit different from the others so I get it lol. Loving the contrast between the MK1/HE60 and 009 at the moment!


----------



## Mach3

L3000 as in the close Audio Technica? Over the 009.... Nice looking pair of leather cans, but the L3000 is a one trick pony. Great vocals that's it.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Mar 24, 2020)

Mach3 said:


> L3000 as in the close Audio Technica? Over the 009.... Nice looking pair of leather cans, but the L3000 is a one trick pony. Great vocals that's it.



I know you're replying to the person after me.. still just to chime in, I wouldn't say the L3000 is better overall.. but each headphone is very, very different. Beyond vocals, it has the greatest bass presentation I can remember hearing.. along with musicality that almost can't be described. But I can easily see some people that really like the Stax sound signature and 009s not really liking the L3000 based off listening preferences.


----------



## carlman14

Hello everyone! I recently entered the electrostatic world and bought an SRM-T1 and an SR Lambda signature. I love DIY projects, so I specifically got the T1 with the intention of replacing the caps, putting in safety resistors, and doing the CCS mod that's been discussed earlier in the forum. I have the older T1 with the caps running across the amp rather than down the side. As far as I can tell, there's no pics of the CCS mod in this version of the amp. So here's some pics! This was a lot of fun to put together, and the result is wonderful.

I used a combination of the 2017 magazine article from @JimL11, the German blog posts from @Firschi, and conversations between JimL11 and muffinhead at around page 923-934 to piece together how to do this. So big thanks to all of you for documenting this. It made my life a lot easier.


----------



## Jon L

protoss said:


> You couldn't have gone wrong in anyway. They are both great. But I would still pick the mk1, he60 and of course the L3000 over the 009 anyday



It's funny, but my arsenal includes the same 'stats, SR009, OII Mk1, HE60.  Also working with Abyss 1266 Phi TC and Raal SR1a ribbons currently.

While I do see where people who don't like SR009 are coming from, once the system is adjusted around their quirks, I really do think SR009 STILL competes extremely well with today's TOTL 'phones.  It can be tricky to introduce just the right amount of even harmonic warmth without significantly sacrificing the resolution and definition, though.  
Not willing to spend T2 money, I did it by adding iFi iTube2 to ICE Edge 1200AS2 amp into Stax transformer.  Without iTube2, the ICE Edge with SR009 displayed the usual complaints, sounding too squeaky clean and unforgiving.  Using itube2 with every setting defeated, SR009 is sounding just enough organic, harmonic, forgiving while retaining almost all of the incredible resolution and control. 

There is just something about the TOTL electrostat sound that other TOTL 'phones don't do.  When set up right, vocals, instruments feel like sparkling water bursting open cheerfully from their bubble of harmonic air.  That's the best I can do to describe what I am hearing right now... 




0326201714 by drjlo2, on Flickr


----------



## 526731 (Mar 27, 2020)

carlman14 said:


> I have the older T1



Is it a "B" or an "A" serial model? Edited my original post as am now confused, lol, don't recall.
Regardless, enjoy


----------



## carlman14

Aenra said:


> Is it a "B" or an "A" serial model? Edited my original post as am now confused, lol, don't recall.
> Regardless, enjoy



It's a "B" model. B4636 to be exact. I've seen other "B" models with a later number, like "B6XXX" as well as "C" models, and those have the caps running down the side. I'm assuming the later "B" serials and "C" are the later versions. Also, as I was talking to Firschi, he commented "looks like you caught yourself a SRM-T1 of the oldest series". So I'm pretty sure it's the older version. Either way, yeah, I am enjoying it!


----------



## JimL11

carlman14 said:


> Hello everyone! I recently entered the electrostatic world and bought an SRM-T1 and an SR Lambda signature. I love DIY projects, so I specifically got the T1 with the intention of replacing the caps, putting in safety resistors, and doing the CCS mod that's been discussed earlier in the forum. I have the older T1 with the caps running across the amp rather than down the side. As far as I can tell, there's no pics of the CCS mod in this version of the amp. So here's some pics! This was a lot of fun to put together, and the result is wonderful.
> 
> I used a combination of the 2017 magazine article from @JimL11, the German blog posts from @Firschi, and conversations between JimL11 and muffinhead at around page 923-934 to piece together how to do this. So big thanks to all of you for documenting this. It made my life a lot easier.



Glad you liked it! The basic Stax circuit  is an excellent one, as evidenced by the fact that it is still used in the SRM-006 and SRM-007 more than 30 years since the original T1 was released for sale. I specifically designed this as a low cost, high value modification. The parts cost is less than $100, of which more than half is the cost of replacing the electrolytic capacitors, which is routine maintenance in amps of this age.The CCS mod more than doubles the effective power of the amp by removing the signal power wastage in the output plate resistors, which removes a number of its sonic flaws while maintaining its basic character. This can be measured objectively by looking at the maximum voltage output of the modified amp (> 400 VRMS at 1 kHz), which is limited only by the power supply voltages, vs the stock amp (300 VRMS at 1 kHz).


----------



## gasmonkey

Forgive me for not reading 1200+ pages, 

I own a Threshold S/150 II OB (90+ watts, about 20+ pure class A).

Wondering if I can just unhook my speakers and hook up Stax headphones? I figure if I already have lots of class A...... Why not? I use ROON, and control the volume digitally from my phone/laptop, so I can set the volume as low as needed.

Im assuming there are better ways to go about this, but I cant help but get my brain stuck in a loop when thinking about a $600 energizer VS. a top notch piece of class A amp I already own.

Even if I could do this, is there an advantage to using a Stax specific energizer over a class A power amp?

Thanks for getting me started.


----------



## walakalulu

Are you having a laugh? Energisers and class A amps are diferent kettles of fish. Good way to blow up your headphone though...


----------



## Jon L

gasmonkey said:


> Forgive me for not reading 1200+ pages,
> 
> I own a Threshold S/150 II OB (90+ watts, about 20+ pure class A).
> 
> ...



You need to buy either Stax SRD-7 Pro or SRD-7 Mk II transformer box, which you connect to your Threshold amp's speaker outputs to power Stax 'phones (modern "pro" models).  Your Threshold will probably sound quite good with them


----------



## DaddyWhale

Jon L said:


> You need to buy either Stax SRD-7 Pro or SRD-7 Mk II transformer box, which you connect to your Threshold amp's speaker outputs to power Stax 'phones (modern "pro" models).  Your Threshold will probably sound quite good with them


Woo Audio (https://wooaudio.com/) and Mjolnir Audio (https://mjolnir-audio.com/) also make transformer boxes. Mjolnir's use transformers scrapped from Stax boxes with improved circuitry. I don't use either. So cannot directly attest to their performance. But Birgir Gudjonsson, who operates Mjolnir, makes excellent stuff. I own a Mjolnir KGSSHV Carbon amplifier (not a transformer) and could not be happier. Birgir is a (dedicated and opinionated) gentleman and, I'm sure, will answer any questions you might have about his stuff. I have no experience with Woo's technical merits. But they have been excellent to deal with: I bought my sr-009S from them. Excellent customer service.


----------



## VRacer-111

gasmonkey said:


> Forgive me for not reading 1200+ pages,
> 
> I own a Threshold S/150 II OB (90+ watts, about 20+ pure class A).
> 
> ...



No advantage of a STAX unit over a stereo amp  + electrostatic transformer needed to use estats with a stereo amp. I ran mine with NAD C275BEE stereo amp and Mjolnir Audio modded SRD-7 transformer. Gives better subbass presence and fuller sound compared to the STAX SRM-323S I first had. Very satisfying sounding with a stereo amp. If I weren't getting out of estats I'd be keeping the Mjolnir SRD-7: it does very well with good quality amps.

Since amps really are more important for the sound of estats than with planar / dynamic headphones, the amp you use will really impact the sound characteristics. Every estat system I've heard sounds different... the amp gives it's characteristics as does the DAC. Amps, DACs, and EQ or anything else in the chain can be used to tweak the sound. If you have an amp you like the sound of, the estat will show quite a bit of that amps characteristics.


----------



## JimL11

gasmonkey said:


> Forgive me for not reading 1200+ pages,
> 
> I own a Threshold S/150 II OB (90+ watts, about 20+ pure class A).
> 
> ...



To elaborate, there are two reasons you cannot just connect a speaker amp like the Threshold to electrostatic headphones:

1) electrostatic headphones require a bias voltage of either +230V (standard bias Stax) or +580V (pro bias Stax). This is supplied with electrostatic headphone amps or Stax converter boxes, Although the Woo converter box also does this, there have been issues with Woo using non-standard bias safety resistors or no safety resistor, as documented by spritzer, who is also the person behind Mjolnir Audio. Note that the earlier Stax converter boxes only supply the standard bias. All current Stax headphones use pro bias so only the SRD-7Pro or SRD-7 II will work correctly (one way to check is the pro bias sockets accept 5 pin jacks only whereas the normal bias sockets accept 6 pin sockets. If you hook up a speaker amp without supplying the bias voltage you will get no sound at all.

2) electrostatic headphones require very little current but high voltages (i.e. 100 volts or more for loud levels). Speaker amps are good at supplying lots of current at relatively low voltages, which is why they require a converter box (which has two step-up transformers for the signal voltage and the aforementioned bias circuit). If you supply the bias voltage and hook up a speaker amp directly to the electrostatic headphones you will quickly hear the amp clipping due to insufficient voltage swing.

Note that the same thing is true of electrostatic speakers. All electrostatic speakers which do not have a built in amp have built in step-up transformers which increase the signal voltage of a standard speaker amp up to several THOUSAND volts. They also have a bias supply, which is why they all have to be plugged into the AC wall socket.


----------



## Tugbars (Apr 6, 2020)

gasmonkey said:


> Forgive me for not reading 1200+ pages,
> 
> I own a Threshold S/150 II OB (90+ watts, about 20+ pure class A).
> 
> ...



Hello,

I'll just dump everything I know about this topic using your question as an excuse. I might be wrong at some points, I'd be glad if someone can correct me.

*Direct drive amp vs Speaker Amp + Trafo: *

There are 2 factors electrostatic headphones require to have full 20-20khz voltage swing: Enough voltage(determines how high the volume can get on your headphones) and current. Without enough current the stators can't get filled with electrostatic charge in the given time, the voltage sags, treble extension starts failing. Current output of an amp affects bass performance too.

Theoretically, a powerful class A amp + Stax trafo can give  all the voltage & current electrostatic headphones can need. This is the  MOST efficient solution to drive electrostatic headphones. Few direct drive amps like Carbon & T2 have enough current output to supply full voltage swing they offer. On the other hand, you can drive any electrostatic headphones to their full potential by using a 300$ vintage amp & 400$ stax SRD7-mkII too. So why should someone bother buying direct drive amps then?

The problem with using  trafos is that the capacitance caused by high winding rate of trafos cause bad treble extension and bad treble performance in general. To my experience speaker(I've tried pass labs x250.8 too) + Stax trafo solutions always have some grain and lack of sparkle in treble region. Lundahl transformers solve this issue to an extent. Lundahl transformers have a special low capacitance winding technique which allows them to provide better treble extension. Moreover, since lundahl transformers can provide up to 50mA current(Mjolnir Carbon has 20mA current output for example), the dynamics can be a bit even better than direct drive amps. For this purpose Mjolnir audio used custom made lundahl trafos which have 1:19 winding rate(stax trafos have 1:27 winding rate if i can recall correct) I'd strongly recommend you to get a lundahl trafo box if you don't want to make compromises on how trebles will sound on your system.

In short, Lundahl trafos have far superior treble extension & bass performance & dynamics compared to what Stax trafos can offer. It's important to mention here that powerful direct drive amps are expensive but they offer totally uncompromised treble performance. Lundahl trafos & a good speaker amp comes very close and even maybe exceed them in some areas.

Those lundahls have very low efficiency so make sure to use a powerful amp. Good luck in your search.


----------



## jsts (Apr 8, 2020)

*Regarding **CCS modification**.*

Once @JimL11 wrote that it remains a mystery why Stax does not use CCS-mod in its amplifiers, although it improves efficiency. Thinking about this, I believe that one of the reasons is the “metallic” sound of transistors installed after vacuum tubes instead of resistors. Don't you think so?


----------



## Mach3

jsts said:


> *Regarding **CCS modification**.*
> 
> Once @JimL11 wrote that it remains a mystery why Stax does not use CCS-mod in its amplifiers, although it improves efficiency. Thinking about this, I believe that one of the reasons is the “metallic” sound of transistors installed after vacuum tubes instead of resistors. Don't you think so?



If that was true why on earth does the T2 uses CCS too? Correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Mach3 (Apr 8, 2020)

Tugbars said:


> *Direct drive amp vs Speaker Amp + Trafo: *
> 
> Those lundahls have very low efficiency so make sure to use a powerful amp. Good luck in your search.



Thanks Tugbars for the info, really appreciate it.
Not sure if my finding can add to yours.

I have a pair of Stax ELS-F81 electrostatic speaker that has a trafo built in.
Stax built a mono block that was design to be paired up with the F81 model Stax DA-100M. Class A 100 watts into 8 Ohm.
However they die off their asses at high volume. This is due to the F81 weird impedance curve. 4~512ohm 512 Ohm at 20hz or 4 Ohm at 20khz. Yes ouch to solid state amps
sensitivity was a low 73db/1w/1m
I was recommended to use a tube amp instead to over come this issue. Recommended by Kent from ElectroStatic Solutions.
I'm currently using a Primaluna 100 watt tube amp.
I was wonder if a tube speaker amp + Trafo would be even better than a solid state speaker amp.
Anyone tried this?


----------



## JimL11

jsts said:


> *Regarding **CCS modification**.*
> 
> Once @JimL11 wrote that it remains a mystery why Stax does not use CCS-mod in its amplifiers, although it improves efficiency. Thinking about this, I believe that one of the reasons is the “metallic” sound of transistors installed after vacuum tubes instead of resistors. Don't you think so?



Very doubtful. The T1, 006 and 007 all have transistor front ends and intermediate stages, so why wouldn't that contribute more transistor sound than the CCS. And the CCS are not "after" the tubes, they are in the same stage - the output stage, which is the only stage that has vacuum tubes. 

And it's not as if they don't know about CCS loads, since their transistor output amps have had CCS loading since at least the SRM-313 (1999) and SRM-717 (2000). Also, the dual MOSFET CCS circuit is pretty transparent - it has an effective impedance of at least 150 MEGOHMS, so is very close to an open circuit and contributes very little to the sound. In fact, the SRX Plus circuit uses the same CCS loads but is otherwise pure tube and nobody who has listened to it has ever commented that it has "transistor" sound.



Mach3 said:


> If that was true why on earth does the T2 uses CCS too? Correct me if I'm wrong.



Yes, the T2 uses CCS, and it also has intermediate transistor stages.


----------



## jsts

JimL11 said:


> Very doubtful. The T1, 006 and 007 all have transistor front ends and intermediate stages, so why wouldn't that contribute more transistor sound than the CCS. And the CCS are not "after" the tubes, they are in the same stage - the output stage, which is the only stage that has vacuum tubes.
> 
> Yes, the T2 uses CCS, and it also has intermediate transistor stages.


JimL11, you are as always great  Thank you for the clarification. It's just that I am considering modifying my SRM-600 and I am afraid of losing the "valve" sound.


----------



## Tugbars (Apr 8, 2020)

Mach3 said:


> Thanks Tugbars for the info, really appreciate it.
> Not sure if my finding can add to yours.
> 
> I have a pair of Stax ELS-F81 electrostatic speaker that has a trafo built in.
> ...



You should use load invariant power amplifiers. Old threshold amps with Statis Topology, some of the Pass Labs amplifiers, Sunfire load invariant amp etc is what you need. There are also some tube amps which are load invariant, their prices are ridiculously high for me, So I didn't care to memorize them but you can see results with a quick google search I believe.

A friend of mine used Nakamichi PA7(has load invariant Statis topology) to drive an electrostatic system, apparently the amp makes everything sound very warm.(It was very detailed sounding amplifier though) And he didn't like it. So vintage amp + load invariant topology isn't the only absolute answer.

I have an slightly off-topic question to you, Do STAX 009BK also sound different(in a better way) to you than 009S as well. That was my experience and I'm curious if it just me who thinks like that? If you've listened to 009S, let me know.


----------



## GarageBoy

JimL11 said:


> Very doubtful. The T1, 006 and 007 all have transistor front ends and intermediate stages, so why wouldn't that contribute more transistor sound than the CCS. And the CCS are not "after" the tubes, they are in the same stage - the output stage, which is the only stage that has vacuum tubes.
> 
> And it's not as if they don't know about CCS loads, since their transistor output amps have had CCS loading since at least the SRM-313 (1999) and SRM-717 (2000). Also, the dual MOSFET CCS circuit is pretty transparent - it has an effective impedance of at least 150 MEGOHMS, so is very close to an open circuit and contributes very little to the sound. In fact, the SRX Plus circuit uses the same CCS loads but is otherwise pure tube and nobody who has listened to it has ever commented that it has "transistor" sound.
> 
> ...


Some people like the sound of the Bottlehead Crack without the Speedball - somehow it gets attributed to the transistors


----------



## Mach3

Tugbars said:


> I have an slightly off-topic question to you, Do STAX 009BK also sound different(in a better way) to you than 009S as well. That was my experience and I'm curious if it just me who thinks like that? If you've listened to 009S, let me know.



Pretty sure I have had other member ask me the same question. 
I do prefer the BK over the S. It's not the earpads that make it sound different to the non S or S. 
I've already confirm this with Spritzer, his finding was exactly like mine.
Main reason I prefer the BK over the S is because the wider soundstage, detail and sparkle similar to the non S.
It's subjective from person to person, as I seen comments from other that still prefer the S the most.
But all the people I know that listen to all 3 agree the non S is the weakest of the 3 in overrall sound presentation.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Mach3 said:


> Pretty sure I have had other member ask me the same question.
> I do prefer the BK over the S. It's not the earpads that make it sound different to the non S or S.
> I've already confirm this with Spritzer, his finding was exactly like mine.
> Main reason I prefer the BK over the S is because the wider soundstage, detail and sparkle similar to the non S.
> ...



As far as the 009 (non-S) being the weakest link of the 3, any further thoughts as to why? I have it and I love a lot about it. Top tier for sure, one of the best.. but there's something a bit weird with the tonality of it I can't put my finger on and just a bit lacking in bass/bass impact. I don't want to give up any of the soundstaging, detail or imaging though. Had a chance to grab the 009s, but I wanted to start with the base 009.. intend to have one of the variants long term, just want to make sure it's the right one.


----------



## jsts (Apr 10, 2020)

jsts said:


> JimL11, you are as always great  Thank you for the clarification. It's just that I am considering modifying my SRM-600 and I am afraid of losing the "valve" sound.




@JimL11, I rely on your help. Regarding the CCS-mod for the SRM-600.

I set out to achieve maximum aesthetics when implementing this mod. The money is not worth it, the question is to make everything as beautiful as possible. That is, for example, to abandon the use of a white ceramic insulator for the IXCP10M90S MOSFET by replacing with a ISOPLUS version technology that does not require additional insulation. Like this:








*Question: Can I use IXTJ4N150 (TO-247) with Electrically Isolated Tab instead of IXCP10M90S (TO-220)?*



Heatsink (4 pcs) are planned as follows (30mm X 20mm X 19,2mm):


----------



## kevin gilmore

no you cannot replace with that part. you need a depletion mode part.


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## JimL11 (Apr 10, 2020)

The IXTJ4N150 is an N-channel enhancement mode MOSFET, whereas the 10M90S is an N-channel depletion mode MOSFET, so you can't substitute. Also, your heatsinks amount to 16 fins, each fin 17.5x30mm with a total length of 60mm. In my mod I used a heatsink with 19 fins, each fin 20mmx 60mm, with a total length of 120mm. Granted that might have been overkill, but it fit in the same area vacated by the plate resistors, and it is more than three times the surface area of the four small heatsinks you propose. Better too large than too small, as too small at a minimum compromises component life due to excessive heat, and at worst results in instant destruction of the MOSFETs.

To be honest, I don't understand your concern about "aesthetics" over function since the mod is inside the chassis and would be invisible from the outside. You have to use white thermal grease anyway between the MOSFET and the heatsink, which is going to look a bit messy, so what's the big deal about a white ceramic insulator? If the white color bothers you, color it black with a Magic Marker. :-^


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## kevin gilmore

no don't color the insulator with magic marker. bad idea. but on the isolated part you could have used the correct size silicone washers.

And the heatsink is a 2.5 watt heatsink. Not big enough.


----------



## JimL11 (Apr 10, 2020)

kevin gilmore said:


> no don't color the insulator with magic marker. bad idea. but on the isolated part you could have used the correct size silicone washers.bein
> 
> And the heatsink is a 2.5 watt heatsink. Not big enough.



Sorry, I was being sarcastic about the Magic Marker.


----------



## jsts

Mr. Gilmore, mr. Lin, thank!

I apologize for my ignorance, I'm not an engineer at all, I just know how to hold a soldering iron in my hands. Hobby.

Bummer, with ISOPLUS technology no depleted mosfet`s are produced... Apparently, I have to look for black insulators and black ceramic/PEEK screws.

*Regarding radiators*, according to my calculation, one 10M90S dissipates about 1 watt maximum and the radiators I have indicated should be enough. Or am I wrongly calculated?


----------



## JimL11

jsts said:


> Mr. Gilmore, mr. Lin, thank!
> 
> I apologize for my ignorance, I'm not an engineer at all, I just know how to hold a soldering iron in my hands. Hobby.
> 
> ...



No, you are incorrect. What you need to calculate is the amount of power that is actually dissipated by the CCS. The 10M90S data sheet gives the maximum amount of power that a "naked" (i.e. without heatsink) 10M90S can dissipate before it burns up as 1 watt. However in the T1 CCS, the 10M90S is running about 5 mA of current at about 325 volts (assuming that the output is sitting at 0 volts and the B+ is at 325V. The lower MOSFET DN2540 actually only has a couple volts across it which we will ignore) Power dissipation is therefore V times I = .005 x 325 = 1.6 watts. However, if you choose a heatsink that will just accommodate 1.6 watts the  circuit will blow up. The usual engineering rule of 3 means you want to choose a heatsink that will at least accommodate 5 watts, and more is better if you have the space. On the SRX Plus board KG specified 42x35x25mm heatsinks (I think Aavid 5328), for my mod I bought a 60x150x25mm heatsink from China for about $10 and cut it down to size. Later I painted it black to improve heat radiation, but even in its raw aluminum form it was fine, and of course once the cover is on you can't see it.

And you apparently have a very different view of esthetics. When I look at the inside of box of electronics I look at how neatly and logically the components have been laid out, how the wiring is arranged, how consistent the soldering is (i.e. no clumps of solder, no dry joints, etc.). I pay no attention at all to whether the colors match, since that is up to the manufacturer. AFAIK, there is nobody that makes black PEEK screws or black insulators. No offense, but focussing on that seems to me a bit like choosing a partner based on their hair color.


----------



## jsts

When calculating the size of the radiator, I used *this calculator*.





It shows, that the heatsink I proposed can dissipate ~4.4 Watts = that at dissipated power of 10M90S in SRM-600 = 0.006 x 350 = 2.1 Watts = heatsink has reserve ~2 times.

Yeah, it's not a "engineering rule of 3", but... In SRM-600 there is no space from the sides, and the remaining space is a little less than in T1. I wouldn't want to do a very tight assembly and expect to keep at least 1.5cm distance from the original parts and the motherboard.

As far as aesthetics is concerned, I completely agree with you. At the same time, I try to find details and colours that match the original solutions in the amplifier. For example, I see a modification like this (photoshop


----------



## jsts (Apr 11, 2020)

Or, for example, this Avvid 5811 radiator:






As I can see, at an ambient temperature of 70 degrees(C) and a power of 2.1 watts, the ambient temperature of the MOSFET will be increase to 110 degrees, which fits into the specifications (+150 C) and safe for him. Am I wrong?


----------



## 526731

This "aesthetics" thing has potential.
I mean if you're set, or think you're set, but still itching? "Aesthetics", the new frontier.
(never mind what the term actually refers to, which even native speakers seem unable to grasp for some reason)

My techdas is silver but my airtangent is black. Aesthetics. 
Cannot abide that, let's waste a 5digit figure and sort that. Aesthetics.
My Wadia is black but the furutech reference silver. Aesthetics.
And so on.

It does have traction..


----------



## zeitlos

Hi guys,

can you help me out? I once owned a STAX L700 (together with the STAX 007II tube amplifier). Sold both and now have a Paltauf Headphone amp (really lovely gear https://www.analog-forum.de/wbboard/index.php?thread/145439-it-s-a-paltauf/) and the STAX 007 Mk2 headphone. Even though I was fascinated with the clearness and also the sound stage of the L700, I somehow wanted to have something maybe not as analytical or more corporal. Hard for me to describe. More laid back, however also more involving if it comes to vocals. Listening to the STAX L700 always was kind of exhausting (even though I didn't notice this while hearing, but when I stopped hearing). So my new combo is basically more the way I want it to. The 007 Mk2 has more bass (even though I wouldn't say the L700 really lacked it, it was okay), nice voice and a fuller sound, which I prefer. However, what I am struggling now since I got it is that everything seems to be a bit distanced. This really is a problem for me.
I really like this combination since I can listen to it for 2 or 3 hours without getting exhausted or fed up. However, it never really gets me. I cannot remember even once rocking with my feet while listening. So I listen to it but it doesn't reach my heart, doesn't make me joyous. And that's not what I was looking for when I invested that much money into my headphone gear...

So is there a way out?
Some people say buy the L300, it goes straight into the ear (which sounds good). However, I fear that I might lose otherwise....
Some say the new L700 Mk2 might now be what you are looking for. Can anyone confirm this? How does it compare to the old L700? How to my 007 Mk2? And maybe how to the L500 Mk2 which is also on my list now.

The 009 is not my league price wise 

I really hope that here someone can help me out. I mean, I really do have a fantastic headphone amp, but still it's not the fun I expected when buying it   Although for sure both, the headphone amp and the STAX earspeaker basically are fabulous gear.


----------



## JimL11

jsts said:


> When calculating the size of the radiator, I used *this calculator*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





jsts said:


> Or, for example, this Avvid 5811 radiator:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The problem is that those calculations tell you the temperature at the heatsink, but not the temperature at the chip, which is what really matters. Remember that the heat from the chip is transferred to the case, which is transferred to the insulator through the thermal grease, which is transferred from the insulator through more thermal grease, which then reaches the heatsink. At each step, the temperature drops, or, in the reverse direction, the temperature increases. So a "safe" temperature at the heatsink could easily mean the chip vaporizes in a few seconds. Take a look at the size of the Aavid 5328 I mentioned above which Kevin Gilmore specified. That is known to be safe for the SRX Plus, which is 7mA at 350V. I would not use anything significantly smaller to be on the safe side. Of course, I prefer to build something that I am confident will last for years of use, which means being conservative and building in as much extra capacity as I can fit in. I suggest that you fit the largest heatsinks that can fit, not the smallest that the calculations suggest will do the job. And you don't need 1.5 cm from the board to the heatsink, it can be touching the board - which gives you another 1.5cm of height for the heatsink to fit in. If Kevin Gilmore, who is a MUCH more experienced builder than I am, says the heatsinks you chose are too small, I would believe him more than I believe your calculations.


----------



## number1sixerfan

zeitlos said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> can you help me out? I once owned a STAX L700 (together with the STAX 007II tube amplifier). Sold both and now have a Paltauf Headphone amp (really lovely gear https://www.analog-forum.de/wbboard/index.php?thread/145439-it-s-a-paltauf/) and the STAX 007 Mk2 headphone. Even though I was fascinated with the clearness and also the sound stage of the L700, I somehow wanted to have something maybe not as analytical or more corporal. Hard for me to describe. More laid back, however also more involving if it comes to vocals. Listening to the STAX L700 always was kind of exhausting (even though I didn't notice this while hearing, but when I stopped hearing). So my new combo is basically more the way I want it to. The 007 Mk2 has more bass (even though I wouldn't say the L700 really lacked it, it was okay), nice voice and a fuller sound, which I prefer. However, what I am struggling now since I got it is that everything seems to be a bit distanced. This really is a problem for me.
> I really like this combination since I can listen to it for 2 or 3 hours without getting exhausted or fed up. However, it never really gets me. I cannot remember even once rocking with my feet while listening. So I listen to it but it doesn't reach my heart, doesn't make me joyous. And that's not what I was looking for when I invested that much money into my headphone gear...
> ...



In my opinion your best bet would be to own a few different stax models to rotate if you can. There is no perfect stax headphone. Even their top of the line models all have strengths and weaknesses both. Even with the 009, I'm very happy to have the HE60 and MK1 because there are things they do better and as an entire collection it feels almost perfect. But listening to each headphone, I can easily point out where I'd want them to be a bit different or better. This isn't limited to Stax either, this really just applies to the hobby across the board imo. 

There isn't a model (at least that I'm aware of) that blends the sound of say the MK2 and the faster and more detailed, brighter models..especially if bass is a priority. I have the L300 and it's a downgrade across the board entirely although a very, very good value for the money. Maybe look at getting the L700 back?


----------



## GarageBoy

JimL11 - has anyone done an srx+ without a pcb? I remember reading that you said it was possible. Can't seem to find a pcb and not sure where I can simply order one.

I thought HiFi was about the sound, since when did everyone get caught up on how things look? I miss the 1960s-70s diy look with simple stamped chassis and transformers sticking out - so many amps with mediocre components and nice chassis work with dozens of tubes sticking out that makes everyone go, "ooh pretty"


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## jsts

JimL11 said:


> If Kevin Gilmore, who is a MUCH more experienced builder than I am, says the heatsinks you chose are too small, I would believe him more than I believe your calculations.


Thank you so much for your help and guidance. I'm slowly drawing a circuit right now and I'm planning the parts. Then I'll be sure to let you know and show you pictures of what I can do.


----------



## JimL11

GarageBoy said:


> JimL11 - has anyone done an srx+ without a pcb? I remember reading that you said it was possible. Can't seem to find a pcb and not sure where I can simply order one.
> 
> I thought HiFi was about the sound, since when did everyone get caught up on how things look? I miss the 1960s-70s diy look with simple stamped chassis and transformers sticking out - so many amps with mediocre components and nice chassis work with dozens of tubes sticking out that makes everyone go, "ooh pretty"



Sure, my original build as documented in AudioXpress was point-to-point. I wouldn't recommend the PS I published, though, it had some problems which didn't show up originally.


----------



## GarageBoy

Thanks, I bought the two articles and saw your post on that other site regarding power supply - still working up the courage to start the project


----------



## paulchiu

Hello,

Anyone knows who may have this tiny part for a Stax 009?
Thanks.

Paul


----------



## afgmjkl

paulchiu said:


> Hello,
> 
> Anyone knows who may have this tiny part for a Stax 009?
> Thanks.
> ...



https://stax.stores.jp/items/5d1c66b53a7e962f7cc7f807


----------



## paulchiu

afgmjkl said:


> https://stax.stores.jp/items/5d1c66b53a7e962f7cc7f807




Thank you.  With this info, I will know what to ask for with a US Stax Dealer.


----------



## zeitlos

number1sixerfan said:


> There isn't a model (at least that I'm aware of) that blends the sound of say the MK2 and the faster and more detailed, brighter models..especially if bass is a priority. I have the L300 and it's a downgrade across the board entirely although a very, very good value for the money. Maybe look at getting the L700 back?



Thank you very much for your reply. I'm more or less new to the world of STAX so I'm not that familiar with all their products. I'm not sure whether I really want the L700 back. Because it was very "clear" and transparent and that's what made me lack the joy I wanted to have. However, as you said, maybe there's not one STAX model that is really satisfying in multiple respects.
As I said, what I really don't like about the 007Mk2 is the distance it puts between the singer and the listener. It's not intimate enough. So maybe I should give the L300 a try and see, what it does in comparison. Or, as some suggested, the new L700 Mk2 since it is said to be not as transparent as the mk1 version.
There are also older STAX headphone which are said to work well, especially with the paltauf amp. However, I don't know which one would be worth a try (if at all ). 

Thanks again for your help. I appreciate it!


----------



## zeitlos

I've just ordered the L700 Mk2. So I will have both and be able to compare.


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## Trance_Gott

zeitlos said:


> I've just ordered the L700 Mk2. So I will have both and be able to compare.


Very interesting I want to know if MK2 has more bass. Some people said this.


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## Tugbars (Apr 12, 2020)

STAX 007mkI/II have the best accurate imaging maybe among all headphones.So if the vocals are not intimate sounding with 007, that's how they are intended to sound like.

Differences between mkI and mkII
007 mkI and mkII have few differences, mkII's upper treble performance is superior, however, 007 mkII(both mk 2.5 and mk 2.9) have 1khz shout/honk and the only way to fix it is to apply the spring mod.
007mkII has mid-bass hump because of the non-sealed port. I really don't like how mk2.5/2.9 sound like without port mod. While the port is not sealed, mid-bass has almost no texture and causing background hum which can mask all the micro detail. So it's totally important to apply both Spring mod and Port mod on your 007's.

Also, 007 fails to deliver proper sound like no other headphones when they are driven by weak amps. One of the reasons for that is probably 007's stator design. The holes on 007 stator perforated area are very small and the solid ring around the edges put a lot of load on amps while damping ringing sufficiently. That's one of the reasons why 007 has such amazing 10khz-20khz performance. The other reason is that probably due to 007 having a very loose tensioned diaphragm. As far as i know, it's the loosest tensioned diaphragm STAX ever have used in their headphones. When it's not controlled with sufficient amount of power, it tends to fail more.


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## zeitlos

Tugbars said:


> STAX 007mkI/II have the best accurate imaging maybe among all headphones.So if the vocals are not intimate sounding with 007, that's how it's intended to sound like.



Thanks for commenting! I appreciate it!
However, I'm not really sure what you mean by "that's how it's intended to sound like"? Do you mean that's how the 007 sound? Or how the Artis wanted the vocals to sound? The last one is hard to believe since basically everyone I had here to listen said the same. Vocals sound distant somehow. I found out that by turning the auricles you can improve it a bit. However, still not close enough for my tasting. Unfortunately .(



Tugbars said:


> Differences between mkI and mkII
> 007 mkI and mkII have few differences, mkII's upper treble performance is superior, however, 007 mkII(both mk 2.5 and mk 2.9) have 1khz honk and the only way to fix it is to do the Spring mod.
> 007mkII has mid-bass hump because of the non-sealed port. I really don't like how mk2.5/2.9 sound like without port mod. While the port is not sealed, mid-bass has almost no texture and causing background hum which can mask all the micro detail. So it's totally important to apply both Spring mod and Port mod on your 007's.



Not sure if this addresses my questions, since I didn't really ask for the differences between 007 M2 and MI. Rather I asked for differences between the 007 Mk2 and the L700 Mk2. I once owned the L700 M1. There was no problem of voice being to far away. People often say the one that take voice directly to your ear is the L300...
But I will get the L700 Mk2 now. 

However, what you said about "Spring mod and port mod" sounds very important and interesting to me. But I don't understand a bit of it  What exactly is meant? What am I supposed to do?

Thanks again for your efforts! I appreciate it!


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## Tugbars (Apr 12, 2020)

Yes, That means that's how the artist wanted those vocals to sound like. I owned L700, L300 and SR009. Among of all 007's imaging is better than the rest.(009 and 007 have similar imaging performance yet 007 is slightly better to my ears) .

https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/3722-stax-sr-007mk2sr-007a-port-mod/ you can read more here about these mods.

Simply spring mod aims to bring drivers closer to your ears so 1k shout and mid-bass hump get a bit tamed down.
Port mod is about sealing the port of 007's so it removes the helmholtz resonance peak there. So basically you get significantly better sounding bass & bass response.

If you want really intimate sounding STAX with good technicalities, try 404LE. You mentioned L300, all lambdas sound very shouty(they always a nasty 2k peak) but L300 has the most nastiest 2k peak among of all.


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## astrostar59

Interesting. I thought about doing the Port mod to my 007 MKs but in the end was happy as they were. IMO the later 007 MK2s were very close to the 007 MK1, Stax seem to have done something to level them up performance wise. What I really wanted though,was the warmth and bass of the 007 and speed and detail of the 009, if that was possible.


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## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> Interesting. I thought about doing the Port mod to my 007 MKs but in the end was happy as they were.


You should at least try the port mod for a sufficient amount of time. It's reversible if you don't care for it.
When I owned the 007Mk2 w/BHSE I did the port mod & removed the springs. The bass had so much authority, solidity, precision & speed that I'll never forget it. I literally still brag about 'til this day.


----------



## Mach3

Beginner mistake. I thought about doing the mod and could not find the port to put the blu tak in. 
Turn out I had a late model MK1 as well as an early model MK1


----------



## zeitlos

how do the mrspeakers Voce compare to the Stax 007 Mk2, especially if it comes to voices?
are there any other alternatives for STAX one could consider?


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## astrostar59

joseph69 said:


> You should at least try the port mod for a sufficient amount of time. It's reversible if you don't care for it.
> When I owned the 007Mk2 w/BHSE I did the port mod & removed the springs. The bass had so much authority, solidity, precision & speed that I'll never forget it. I literally still brag about 'til this day.


Interesting. I no longer have my Stax collection, I sold it all and moved to the Abyss. I remember how the 007MK1 sounded so have an idea how the MK2 may with the mod.

I wonder why Stax applied the port? Was it to avoid pressure damage when adjusting the fit or putting then on the head (Stax fart)? 
I don't understand a manufacturer stepping backwards in sound quality, doesn't make sense...


----------



## joseph69

astrostar59 said:


> I wonder why Stax applied the port? Was it to avoid pressure damage when adjusting the fit or putting then on the head (Stax fart)?


My guess would be it's used to relieve the pressure on the diaphragm?


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## astrostar59 (Apr 14, 2020)

Yes that is what I thought. Maybe, but a pity the sound took a backwards direction.
Off topic a bit, I am on planars now, but at Can-Jam last year got an opportunity to hear the 009 again on a Woo WES MK2 amp. I could see why I stuck with the 009 for so long, it does many things well. My last amp was the KGSShv Carbon 450v with the later CSS boards.
I won't say more, I respect the thread.


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## zeitlos

One more question: I was told that replacing the 007 Mk2 ear pads with the 009 ear pads can help emphasizing voices a bit. Can anyone confirm this?
It seems to be hard to find 009 ear pads in store in Germany, have only came across those of the 007 STAX so far.


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## Àedhàn Cassiel

Hey guys. 

I listen to a little bit of everything, but probably extreme metal more than half the time. Compared to the Harman Curve, I prefer a hump around 1 to 1.5kHz moving into a dip at 2kHz (some upper mid recession, IOW). Examples that land this quite well IMO are the LCD-4 and for IEMs the JH Angie, the RAD-0 does it quite well too, and I've learned it's actually one reason I love the HD800, so it turns out I can tolerate a lot of variation as long as this area is done to my taste. I've already got a decent TOTL collection, including an HD800 and Verite Closed, so I don't _need _new cans to do everything across the board. Using Crinacle's graph comparison tool, it looks like the SR-007 measures very similarly to an LCD-4 with better upper treble extension. Especially if you put a narrow boost at 1.2kHz and take 4.5kHz down some. 

Now, I have an 006t amp that came with an SR-4040 system. I'm interested in trying an SR-007, but I'm most likely never going to get the chance to spring more of a stat energizer than that. The thing is, I'm one of those filthy objectivists that think amps are basically indistinguishable past fairly simple thresholds. People say electrostats are an exception to this and especially sensitive to amping, but they said that about the HD800 too, and I'm perfectly happy running mine off a JDS Labs Atom with EQ even as my "endgame." Still, I hesitate, because the SR-007 is a lot of money to potentially be "wasting" if the 006t really can't give me a good idea how it should sound. Can anyone either give me good reason to think it really won't do it justice, or assure me there's a good chance I'd find it sufficient? I'd be happy with something like "Damn, if you're so deaf you think amps make little difference with the HD800 I guess you'll probably think the same here too."


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## number1sixerfan (Apr 15, 2020)

Àedhàn Cassiel said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> I listen to a little bit of everything, but probably extreme metal more than half the time. Compared to the Harman Curve, I prefer a hump around 1 to 1.5kHz moving into a dip at 2kHz (some upper mid recession, IOW). Examples that land this quite well IMO are the LCD-4 and for IEMs the JH Angie, the RAD-0 does it quite well too, and I've learned it's actually one reason I love the HD800, so it turns out I can tolerate a lot of variation as long as this area is done to my taste. I've already got a decent TOTL collection, including an HD800 and Verite Closed, so I don't _need _new cans to do everything across the board. Using Crinacle's graph comparison tool, it looks like the SR-007 measures very similarly to an LCD-4 with better upper treble extension. Especially if you put a narrow boost at 1.2kHz and take 4.5kHz down some.
> 
> Now, I have an 006t amp that came with an SR-4040 system. I'm interested in trying an SR-007, but I'm most likely never going to get the chance to spring more of a stat energizer than that. The thing is, I'm one of those filthy objectivists that think amps are basically indistinguishable past fairly simple thresholds. People say electrostats are an exception to this and especially sensitive to amping, but they said that about the HD800 too, and I'm perfectly happy running mine off a JDS Labs Atom with EQ even as my "endgame." Still, I hesitate, because the SR-007 is a lot of money to potentially be "wasting" if the 006t really can't give me a good idea how it should sound. Can anyone either give me good reason to think it really won't do it justice, or assure me there's a good chance I'd find it sufficient? I'd be happy with something like "Damn, if you're so deaf you think amps make little difference with the HD800 I guess you'll probably think the same here too."



I've had the HD800 several times with all kinds of amps. They do benefit from a synergistic pairing but they are not at all as hard to drive as the 007. What people say about electrostats and powerful amps is absolutely true. Doesn't mean you have to spend a fortune.. there are Carbon variants sold on here at a decent price all the time along with other viable options. But there's no way I'd invest in a Stax TOTL headphone without a really good amp, these headphones are just too special to not get them to at least 90% of their potential.

Fyi, I've had multiple stax amps, the HEV70 sennheiser amp and the BHSE/Wes I have now. There's a really big difference without a shadow of a doubt. Again, you don't have to break the bank.. the BHSE isn't the only viable option.

edit* at the very least I'd buy a mid tier amp and then sale if you deem the jump isn't worth it.


----------



## JimL11

Àedhàn Cassiel said:


> Now, I have an 006t amp that came with an SR-4040 system. I'm interested in trying an SR-007, but I'm most likely never going to get the chance to spring more of a stat energizer than that. The thing is, I'm one of those filthy objectivists that think amps are basically indistinguishable past fairly simple thresholds. People say electrostats are an exception to this and especially sensitive to amping, but they said that about the HD800 too, and I'm perfectly happy running mine off a JDS Labs Atom with EQ even as my "endgame." Still, I hesitate, because the SR-007 is a lot of money to potentially be "wasting" if the 006t really can't give me a good idea how it should sound. Can anyone either give me good reason to think it really won't do it justice, or assure me there's a good chance I'd find it sufficient? I'd be happy with something like "Damn, if you're so deaf you think amps make little difference with the HD800 I guess you'll probably think the same here too."



Depends to some extent on how loud you listen. You are more likely to hear the limitations of an amp like the 006 if you listen at high volumes with a relatively inefficient sounding headphone like the SR-007 - I say relatively inefficient despite its SPL rating at 1 kHz, which is similar to all the Stax headphones, because compared to most States, it has a few dB less output in the 2-4 kHz range where the ear judges relative loudness. The SRM-006 and its tube output brethren are limited in voltage output compared to even the Stax solid state amps by its use of output plate resistors rather than constant current loads as used by the Stax solid state amps and the Gilmore amps (which also have higher voltage power supplies). This is reflected in their specifications, where the tube output amps are rated around 340 VRMS vs around 450VRMS for the solid state Stax amps. Modifying the T1/006/007 amps with constant current loads enables them to equal the Stax solid state amps in output voltage, but it is a DIY mod which voids the warranty.


----------



## Meanstreak242

I'm using Sr-007 mkII with a Stax 006ta (with the feedback mod applied).   I've never heard it without the feedback mod but with it it drives them pretty well.  I've heard these on a KGSSHV (not the carbon version) and while that certainly does sound better, I'm still pretty happy with this setup.   My average volume level is between 3-4 on normal tracks.  Older tracks that are recorded more softly (and usually have more dynamic range) i listen at about 5 (halfway on the dial) for reference.  

I will upgrade one of these days, but for now I'm happy with it.  Of course everyone's hearing/music preferences are different so take this for what it is, my humble opinion.


----------



## JimL11

Meanstreak242 said:


> I'm using Sr-007 mkII with a Stax 006ta (with the feedback mod applied).   I've never heard it without the feedback mod but with it it drives them pretty well.  I've heard these on a KGSSHV (not the carbon version) and while that certainly does sound better, I'm still pretty happy with this setup.   My average volume level is between 3-4 on normal tracks.  Older tracks that are recorded more softly (and usually have more dynamic range) i listen at about 5 (halfway on the dial) for reference.
> 
> I will upgrade one of these days, but for now I'm happy with it.  Of course everyone's hearing/music preferences are different so take this for what it is, my humble opinion.



Your post is confusing. The SRM-006ta (tube outputs, plate resistor loads) doesn't have a feedback mod. The solid state SRM-727 DOES have a global feedback mod.


----------



## Meanstreak242

Perhaps the mod has a different name then.   I bought this off Sprtizer and it was modified to extend the feedback loop to include the tube stage, is that not what the feedback mod is? (Sorry if I've got the wrong name.)


----------



## JimL11

Meanstreak242 said:


> Perhaps the mod has a different name then.   I bought this off Sprtizer and it was modified to extend the feedback loop to include the tube stage, is that not what the feedback mod is? (Sorry if I've got the wrong name.)



Um, nope. The SRM-T1, 006 and 007 all were designed by Stax with global feedback from the tube output stage back to the input stage. They don't need to be modified to extend the feedback because they already have it. Only the SRM-727, which is all solid state, has a design that excluded the output stage from feedback, and spritzer actually was the one who first modified it by extending the feedback to include the output stage. I know this because I modded a 727 following his published instructions.

Perhaps he did the constant current load (CCS) mod - easy way to tell is to open it up (you don't have to touch anything). If it has a good size heatsink mounted on one side it has the CCS mod. Something similar to the picture I attached, which shows the mod on a T1, which has essentially the same circuit as the 006. The big aluminum thingie above the two output tubes is the heatsink for the CCS. The unaltered T1 has 8 large resistors on the circuit board where the heatsink now sits.


----------



## JimL11

By contrast, here is the interior of an unaltered SRM-006. Note the eight orange cylindrical objects with colored stripes on them near the top of the photo in the same location as the aluminum heatsink in the T1 photo - those are the plate resistors that are replaced by the constant current load.


----------



## Meanstreak242

You got me curious, so I took a look.   I think you're right this is the CCS mod.  (I've attached a pic so if I'm wrong please do correct me.)   Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## JimL11

Meanstreak242 said:


> You got me curious, so I took a look.   I think you're right this is the CCS mod.  (I've attached a pic so if I'm wrong please do correct me.)   Sorry for the confusion.



Yes, that is clearly the CCS mod. If you compare your picture with the stock internals in my previous post, you can see where the 8 plate resistors in the stock amp have been removed, to be replaced by four CC loads. 

The good thing about that is it more than doubles the effective power of the 6CG7/6FQ7 tubes compared to the stock amp, giving it the same amount of voltage swing as the Stax solid state amps (the stock 006 amp, it is rated at 340VRMS vs 450VRMS for the solid state amps). It is still a bit less current drive than the solid state amps, but enough to effectively drive the SR007, as you have found.


----------



## jsts (Apr 18, 2020)

jsts said:


> Thank you so much for your help and guidance. I'm slowly drawing a circuit right now and I'm planning the parts. Then I'll be sure to let you know and show you pictures of what I can do.



Sketch of the CCS-mode board for the SRM-600. Moving forward little by little  Mr. Gilmore, mr. Lin, thank you!


----------



## Eich1eeF

jsts said:


> Sketch of the CCS-mode board for the SRM-600. Moving forward little by little  Mr. Gilmore, mr. Lin, thank you!


Do I see that correctly that you are going to mount the CCS board by extending the screws already present in the vinicinity of the load resistors? That's a really nice solution.


----------



## jsts

Eich1eeF said:


> Do I see that correctly that you are going to mount the CCS board by extending the screws already present in the vinicinity of the load resistors? That's a really nice solution.


Yes exactly. It seemed to me that this would be the right decision. Upon completion, I will definitely tell about the process and lay out the photos.


----------



## Tugbars (Apr 20, 2020)

Okay, so I decided to take metal springs off from my 007.(mk 2.9) I don't know why but bass seems to have a little bit less presence after the changes, however the recession in 2-4khz region is no more. I actually am not sure if i want to keep it because 007's sound signature became closer to 009 right now. I can hear more micro detail but the thick bass and textured mids of 007 is no more. I'll use them without metal springs for a week and maybe I'll revert the changes.I could never think that bringing my ears closer to driver would bring such huge difference.
(tests have been done with KGSSHV Carbon + Soekris 1541)


----------



## scottcw

If I like the sound of Audeze LCD-2.1 and 2.2, will I love the SR-007? Not looking to spend anymore money, but my curiosity is piqued and I have a lot of listening time on my hands during shelter.

If the answer is yes, which version of the SR-007 should I look for? I've seen comment that the first version is best, the 71xxx versions are best, and the MKII are best. They can't all be best, can they? 😉


----------



## astrostar59

scottcw said:


> If I like the sound of Audeze LCD-2.1 and 2.2, will I love the SR-007? Not looking to spend anymore money, but my curiosity is piqued and I have a lot of listening time on my hands during shelter.
> 
> If the answer is yes, which version of the SR-007 should I look for? I've seen comment that the first version is best, the 71xxx versions are best, and the MKII are best. They can't all be best, can they? 😉


I had the 007 MK1, the 007 MK2 and the 007 Mk2.5 (2018 edition). Avoid the MK2 it is not good. But you have to build in the cost of an decent amp for the 007 as it is a hungry HP. And non of the current STax amps do it well IMO. You need a DIY KGSShv at least.

My view if look at the Focal Utopia or better, the Daina V2. That will give you superb mids and details, no fatigue and solid presentation. The 007 is slow in comparison, good in it's day, but things have moved on IMO.


----------



## scottcw

astrostar59 said:


> My view if look at the Focal Utopia or better, the Daina V2. That will give you superb mids and details, no fatigue and solid presentation. The 007 is slow in comparison, good in it's day, but things have moved on IMO.



Thanks, but the Focal is not an option. I'm interested in an electrostatic, otherwise I will stick w my Audeze.


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## Tugbars (Apr 20, 2020)

SR007 and LCD4 are often compared to each other. https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/katzs-corner-episode-18-icelandic-wonder-page-2 Here is a nice comparison of both.
I think electrostatic treble performance is superior to any other tech out there.(which is subjectively the most important  thing for me in sound presentation) So I have preferred SR007 over LCD4.


----------



## astrostar59

Yes electrostics are known for speed. But planar have caught up. And the soundstage on the LCD4 is better than the 007, possibly the angled cups, not sure. But sounds more convincing to my ears.
007 has an odd sound for a stat, like it is trying to be unstat like somehow. Anyone else notice this aspect? The 007 is an attempt at real world bass for a stat, but in doing that slows things down and sounds more closed in.
If we have the amp budget factored into driving an 007 to decent sound quality level, it becomes uncompetitive in recent years, been surpassed. YMMV. But you need a top amp to get the 007 to shine.


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## Tugbars

Perforated areas on 007 stators have very small openings and the area is surrounded with a thick ring.This design is like a doubled edged sword, because it's a not a completely open design(definitely less open than mesh stator designs) soundstage is compromised. However, thanks to this design 007 is acoustically very well damped and this becomes obvious with it's fantastic treble performance and bass performance.  All these design aspects of 007 makes it absurdly hard to drive. I think without having a powerful speaker amp & trafo or KGSSHV Carbon, 007 isn't worth to invest in. 

007 isn't the fastest headphones out there(not very far from the fastest though), however 007 stops better than probably all other electrostatic headphones. This results as top imaging & layering. (in a limited area though).


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## Tacanacy

What would you recommend for SR-007 Mk1 (and HE60), KGSS Klassik or KGSSHV?
I haven't heard these headphones before and I don't already own any estat amps to test the headphones with when they arrive. The only characteristic that I know I don't want in the amp is dry timbre.


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## number1sixerfan

The 007 (MK1 experience only here) are definitely unlike many of the stats.. but in good ways IMO. The 009's transparency/speed/detail is amazing to take in, but the 007 is an excellent contrast to it, being more musical, less fatiguing and with better bass presence and impact. Driving it properly is insanely hard and I probably wouldn't have it as my only headphone due to that reason alone ($$).. but if you already have a TOTL stat amp it's certainly worth owning to compliment a 009, HE60, L700 etc.


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## joseph69

Tugbars said:


> Okay, so I decided to take metal springs off from my 007.


You didn't mention anything about the port mod, so I assume you didn't do it while you were in there. If so, why not?
It would've been just as easy to revere the port mod as it would to put your metal springs back in if you don't like either.


----------



## dripf

The 007 is more sensitive than other models according to its specs. On another forum, the 007 was level matched across different amps to a quite high 105 dB. There was no difference in frequency response between 252s and 717. It's time for big amp proponents to explain the value, and in clearer terms than "controls the driver with more authority".


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## greggf

dripf, I think they would say that big third party amps would drive the 007 better at even higher levels, beyond 105 db.  Which, of course, no one in their right mind would do.  It's like a 700 horsepower Dodge - why?  To go to the mall?  Bragging rights?  To be "special"?  And, btw, I think STAX keeps their amps modest not just for financial reasons, but unlike these aftermarket amp builders, STAX does not want to be legally liable for electrocutions, houses burning down, etc., and simply because the extra "control of the drivers" is not necessary at sane volume levels.


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## JimL11

dripf said:


> The 007 is more sensitive than other models according to its specs. On another forum, the 007 was level matched across different amps to a quite high 105 dB. There was no difference in frequency response between 252s and 717. It's time for big amp proponents to explain the value, and in clearer terms than "controls the driver with more authority".



Actually the specified sensitivities of all the Stax headphones are quite similar at 1 kHz if you look on their website. However, if you look at their frequency responses, e.g. such as those published on InnerFidelity, the 007 is a few dB lower in the 2-4 kHz range which the ear uses to judge subjective loudness. Hence subjectively, the 007 seems to be softer for the same amp setting and people tend to turn it up to achieve the same subjective loudness, hence the impression that it is less sensitive and requires more power. Remember that the ear is not a microphone, and subjective loudness is not the same as objective dB although there is some correlation.


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## b1uedeath

Sorry if this is off thread, but I was wondering if anyone remembers if there was a discount on the stax 009s last black friday? I seem to remember that being the case on staxaudio, but I can't seem to find any reference to the discounted price anywhere. Thanks!


----------



## DaddyWhale

b1uedeath said:


> Sorry if this is off thread, but I was wondering if anyone remembers if there was a discount on the stax 009s last black friday? I seem to remember that being the case on staxaudio, but I can't seem to find any reference to the discounted price anywhere. Thanks!


Yes, there was a discount around Black Friday at staxaudio.com. It extended into December, when I bought mine for $3,800, which is about a 15% discount over the regular price


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## b1uedeath

DaddyWhale said:


> Yes, there was a discount around Black Friday at staxaudio.com. It extended into December, when I bought mine for $3,800, which is about a 15% discount over the regular price


Thank you! That is exactly what I wanted to know.


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## timb5881

Just purchased a Stax SRM/MK-2 on ebay seller says it is in fully working order, and one side has been converted to a Pro Bias output.   I hope it does me good.


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## 526731

Bit of an update on the SRX Plus build 

Amazed in one word.
Now admittedly i did a few modifications (additions mostly) to the diagram found in head-case, both in the PS and in the main unit, plus i used the best components one can get as i won't be replacing this, bit too old for "future upgrades".. 
When your 'future' is now kind of a thing, only not exactly like in the movie!

Now to start off with the basics, amazed when compared to my modified T1, my two custom ES amps (and these are totally custom, my design) and amazed when listening to it with a Sigma, Signature Pro, Classics Pro or old SRs. The new 009s has yet to be in my possession, thank you COVID, so cannot say.
If, like me, you're old enough to have started with a transformer because that's all there was in the beginning, moved on to energisers and eventually 'upgraded' to dedicated amplifiers, what the 'Plus' will do is give you that signature Stax sound, only without any of the well known (amp depending) negatives basically. It really does feel like a 'T2' of an energiser, really does sum it up.
(and it being the reason i've refrained from purchasing any of the DIY amps; the more i read, the more i feel.. cautious. Improvements are great, but the character, signature if you will, is crucial for me; must not stray far from what got me into Stax in the first place. Just a personal opinion here. Put differently to avoid misunderstandings, no way i'd risk purchasing prior to critically listening to them, ie in my home, ie impossible.)
(also why i stuck with the modified T1 rather than my two own; never quite managed to keep that 'Stax signature' sound, whatever their other strengths were and they were admittedly plenty. Just didn't sound much like.. Stax anymore)

Advices three:
- Started with cheaper components during my testing and can easily guarantee you that at a cost as measly as JimL mentions, this can and will surprise you; you honestly need not look upwards in terms of amps, not unless spending is your actual hobby.
- Unless you can work on the PCB some more, tubes are really important, don't go NOS unless like me you're old enough to have unused ones and can hand-match them; go new and matched pairs.
- I'm not quite sure why there's a "copyright by Kevin Gilmore" on the PCB, it's not his and it's also not listed in Geneva, nor quite sure why the layers are offered as they are, sans the main Proteus file (ie without offering the possibility to do any modifications). You can however easily import all the layers to the software of your choosing; all you need do is rename the .txt extensions to .gbr and import them accordingly (ie top silk to top silk, etc). Sole exception being the drilling file, whose extension needs be renamed to that of your own software, ie .DRL for mine. You can then actually work on it. Probably didn't need to mention this, you'll already know, but just in case.

I'll refrain from posting detailed listening impressions for three reasons:
- Not much to say that isn't stated in head-case, except:
- It can scale up, ie it won't sound as good as it could, unless you use proper mats. Hint, don't use toroidals just because everyone else others do. For starters anyway. Albeit again, even at a basic quality level, it _will_ surprise you.
- Reproduction source matters even more and i don't use what is.. prevalent today, so any specifics i might give are moot for most. Amps do play a slightly larger role with electrets than with dynamics as they say, true, but the basics are still the same (source, source and source). Since however i've not come here to start arguments, let's leave it at that.

I would once again wish to thank JimL for that lovely article, and Kevin Gilmore for contributing to the design further, but JimL especially.
Twice now you've helped me.. bless you 
(nephew thanks you too, or would have had he known to, as he's now inherited the modified T1)


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## JimL11

The reason that the PCB is copyright by Kevin Gilmore is that he designed the board, since I didn't have the software to do so.


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## 526731 (Apr 26, 2020)

JimL11 said:


> The reason that the PCB is copyright by Kevin Gilmore is that he designed the board, since I didn't have the software to do so.



Am not one for diplomacy admittedly, or rather the more i try at it, the worse off it gets; was attempting, cultural gap and all, to imply that there aren't any real copyright issues here and that the idea itself being another's (yours) and based on yet another's (Stax's SRX), one _could_ modify it if so inclined; sprinkled on top somewhere, the notion that finding a copyright mention where there's _none_ is not only suspect, but also overly restricting; as being the case when the layers are purposedully offered orphaned, sans an option to actually see the end design. May we at the least agree this cannot be accidental.

The typical issue i have, finding the balance between verbosity and succintness, with or without the diplomatic element.
To which of course one could expand, when 1+1 always equal 2, how come we've reached this state culturally, where one cannot merely state the facts.. but i did mention verbosity, didn't i


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## kevin gilmore

There are one or more companies in china that have taken my board files...

Then edited the silkscreen removing the part values, replacing with R#,C#,Q# etc
that don't match any known schematic

Then edited the ground plane replacing local clearance edits with global edits

Then making boards with 1 oz copper (if that)

Then selling them on ebay

Then people buy them, assemble them, and they blow up
and somehow this is now my fault.

If you like my board files, then send them to your favorite board house and have
some made, this is dirt cheap these days.

If you don't like my board files then do your own board layouts.
Because source files to gerber files are a vector to raster conversion, taking gerber files
back to source files results in some real poor quality crap.

The hack jobs I have seen on the krell ksa5 klone boards are the absolute worst of these.


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## eiotadsa (Apr 28, 2020)

davidsh said:


> That was OT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. I just worked out how to find the old thread after Google decided to be unusually unhelpful.


----------



## Crashem

Any ideas where I might get brown earpads, headband for a sr-007 mk1?  Looks like Staxusa.com no longer sells them.


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## Eich1eeF

Crashem said:


> Any ideas where I might get brown earpads, headband for a sr-007 mk1?  Looks like Staxusa.com no longer sells them.


If it doesn't have to be original STAX, maybe https://vesperaudio.com/earpads can make what you need.


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## John_M

Does anyone have any thoughts on what solid state amp to get for the SR-009 or SR-009S? People seem quite underwhelmed with the new SRM-700S for the price. Does the SRM-353X have enough power to drive them properly? As regards tube amps - I want the amp to be neutral and, without understanding the technical side, don't like hearing about a 'warm tube sound' or similar. I will be using the headphones with a Smyth Realiser so want the minimum possible distortion. (Or is the view that modern Stax tube amps have no more distortion than solid state amps - no doubt this is asked a lot!)


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## DaddyWhale

John_M said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on what solid state amp to get for the SR-009 or SR-009S? People seem quite underwhelmed with the new SRM-700S for the price. Does the SRM-353X have enough power to drive them properly? As regards tube amps - I want the amp to be neutral and, without understanding the technical side, don't like hearing about a 'warm tube sound' or similar. I will be using the headphones with a Smyth Realiser so want the minimum possible distortion. (Or is the view that modern Stax tube amps have no more distortion than solid state amps - no doubt this is asked a lot!)


I have three solid state stax energizers that I use with my 009S: Mjolnir KGSSHV Carbon (in the study), Stax drm-50 (in the bedroom), and a Stax drm-10 (for portability). Both the Carbon and drm-50 have ample power to drive the 009S, though I prefer the sound signature of the Carbon. The drm-10 is great for taking my headphones from room to room. But it's somewhat underpowered and the sound lacks the sparkle of the other two, and lacks the bass extension.


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## Tugbars

You can simply use a load invariant speaker amp and a Stax SRD trafo. With it's low current output, don't expect much from 353X's treble extension and bass presentation.


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## hypersonic

John_M said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on what solid state amp to get for the SR-009 or SR-009S? People seem quite underwhelmed with the new SRM-700S for the price. Does the SRM-353X have enough power to drive them properly? As regards tube amps - I want the amp to be neutral and, without understanding the technical side, don't like hearing about a 'warm tube sound' or similar. I will be using the headphones with a Smyth Realiser so want the minimum possible distortion. (Or is the view that modern Stax tube amps have no more distortion than solid state amps - no doubt this is asked a lot!)


I asked a similar question before, and a kind member gave the following reply, I found it very insightful:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/post-15188085
I am using a 353x with my 009bk
I don't particularly feel the lack of power, even in the loudest passage in Shostakovich's 5th. It reminds me of the same atmosphere I felt in the concert hall, it's that good.
Of course I do plan to get something even more robust in the future, maybe diy a T2. But that's a huge project and an expensive one.
So as a transitional gear I think 353x does it's job well.


----------



## John_M

hypersonic said:


> I asked a similar question before, and a kind member gave the following reply, I found it very insightful:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/post-15188085
> I am using a 353x with my 009bk
> I don't particularly feel the lack of power, even in the loudest passage in Shostakovich's 5th. It reminds me of the same atmosphere I felt in the concert hall, it's that good.
> ...



Thanks, this is very helpful. Out of interest, you say you don't "particularly" feel the lack of power but you do nevertheless plan to get something more robust - does this suggest that you do slightly feel the lack of power (or why not just stick with the 353x)? I suppose it depends on listening volumes...


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## DaddyWhale

John_M said:


> Thanks, this is very helpful. Out of interest, you say you don't "particularly" feel the lack of power but you do nevertheless plan to get something more robust - does this suggest that you do slightly feel the lack of power (or why not just stick with the 353x)? I suppose it depends on listening volumes...


Coincidentally, I wrote the following in another thread just 10 minutes ago, when a headfier asked how I compared the KGSSHV Carbon to the stax srm-d50. The d50 may be similar to the 353x (though this is only conjecture)

"I prefer the Carbon without a doubt [to the d50]. The reason I got it in the first place to replace my d50 was because of a relative lack of bass slam [on the stax srm-d50]. The Carbon fixed all that. The Carbon also improved the treble detail and sparkle without ever becoming harsh. One of the consequences of all this is that I now listen to the 009S at a lower volume: don't need to pump up the volume to get the same amount of excitement and drama!"

Hope this helps


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## Tugbars (Apr 30, 2020)

For electrostatic amplifiers, voltage is all that is really required for volume. Multiplying voltages is actually easy for amplifiers. Even Stax 252S can make your headphones can go very loud. You probably wouldn't find it's sound very pleasant though. The current that amplifiers can deliver determine how capable they are in driving electrostatic headphones. On higher sound volumes, amplifiers tasked to deliver higher voltage and as the voltage goes higher the amount of current required to have full 20-20khz extension goes higher too.

Electrostatic headphones have very high impedance, for example 007's impedance is 170k at 10khz. Probably it's around 350k at 20hz or even more. The amount of current needed which can go through such impedances is high. The bass rumble, the bass impact becomes much more prominent with stronger amps.

Again for treble extension electrostatic headphones need current. Because in higher frequencies, the amplifier has to rush faster and fill stators with enough statical charge in the given time. Current is the rate of the flow of statical charge. If the flow isn't enough, the voltage sags. (Voltage = volume, things you can gear = detail) First thing people notice when comparing Stax amps and Carbon is that how treble detail becomes more accessible and how it sounds more transparent in treble region. The soundstage expansion can be a result of this too.
Here are some examples,

STAX D50 has 300V power supplies, it requires 9ma of output of current for full extension. However, it's limited to 6ma.
350V power supplies require 10.6mA of output current.(T1, 717, 727 etc) They are limited to 7mA.
500V power supplies require 15mA. Megatron & T2 can do that. Carbon also has 20-22mA current output.
(amplifier measurement data is taken from Kevin Gilmore)

My recommendation is, if your budget is limited, get a good powerful speaker amp and pair it with a stax srd trafo. With this solution, you can get more voltage, more current than you can ever need for 1/3 price of Carbon or Megatron. There are reasons why direct drive amps are better and I had a post about it. I won't repeat myself again.


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## hypersonic

John_M said:


> Thanks, this is very helpful. Out of interest, you say you don't "particularly" feel the lack of power but you do nevertheless plan to get something more robust - does this suggest that you do slightly feel the lack of power (or why not just stick with the 353x)? I suppose it depends on listening volumes...


Sorry for my terrible wordings. What I was trying to say is, I didn't have the chance to try better amp, what I have is already the best I've ever heard. 
The consensus of the stax community is that it can be even better with a more powerful amp. So I'm very interested to "upgrade" in the future.


----------



## AudioThief

Tugbars said:


> For electrostatic amplifiers, voltage is all that is really required for volume. Multiplying voltages is actually easy for amplifiers. Even Stax 252S can make your headphones can go very loud. You probably wouldn't find it's sound very pleasant though. The current that amplifiers can deliver determine how capable they are in driving electrostatic headphones. On higher sound volumes, amplifiers tasked to deliver higher voltage and as the voltage goes higher the amount of current required to have full 20-20khz extension goes higher too.
> 
> Electrostatic headphones have very high impedance, for example 007's impedance is 170k at 10khz. Probably it's around 350k at 20hz or even more. The amount of current needed which can go through such impedances is high. The bass rumble, the bass impact becomes much more prominent with stronger amps.
> 
> ...



Stax amps like the 007t/727 are powerful enough to drive 007 to its fullest.


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## Tugbars

Ah yeah, I remember you were also saying that L300 is better than SR007. I see no reason to change your opinions but I don't agree with them.  I gave you the numbers of how much power these amplifiers are lacking. Things get messy for amplifiers as you turn the volume higher, at extremely low sound levels even SRM-252S should be able to drive SR007 to it's "fullest".That's one of the reasons why frequency response of headphones from different amplifiers show almost no difference. However, the volume levels where they can deliver enough power is quite low. After a certain volume level, they start only adding compression artefacts to sound.


----------



## BenF

Tugbars said:


> Ah yeah, I remember you were also saying that L300 is better than SR007. I see no reason to change your opinions but I don't agree with them.  I gave you the numbers of how much power these amplifiers are lacking. Things get messy for amplifiers as you turn the volume higher, at extremely low sound levels even SRM-252S should be able to drive SR007 to it's "fullest".That's one of the reasons why frequency response of headphones from different amplifiers show almost no difference. However, the volume levels where they can deliver enough power is quite low. After a certain volume level, they start only adding compression artefacts to sound.


I auditioned 007 Mk2 on Headamp's Blue Hawaii SE at Justin's place, and it still sounded way too dark and veiled, something I'd expect from a cheap dynamic headphone.
L300 in comparison sounds like a proper electrostatic headphone, on certain (bass-light) tracks it can compete with 009. Sometimes I even prefered L300 - it has a more exciting sound.


----------



## Tugbars (Apr 30, 2020)

Actually, yes, I feel you. When I got my hands on my first mkII , I thought those were no better than 200$ dynamic headphones. Because their imaging is almost perfect, I realized the problem is not with the driver but with something else.  MkII's have 2 flaws. One: port is not blocked, second: the springs are not wide enough. The distance between ears and the driver is too large with those springs. Stock SR007's sound shouty(about +5db 1khz honk) and and dark(-7db~ around 2-4khz ange) I think they sound lifeless, dark and washed up.

mkI models do not have these problems, port is blocked, springs are 102mm wide.(mkII is 92mm) I agree that stock mkII is a mess. Stock models have a mid-bass hump which makes everything in the audible spectrum sound grainy, 1khz shout that makes everything sound like they recorded in a bottom of a well, those thick pads make micro details totally inaccessible. Also, Taking springs out makes them too bright & too agressive(they totally sound like SR009 without springs)

Let's assume, we have fixed all these problems with port mod and spring mo and If you drive 007's with a weak amp, they sound like SR001 Stax earphones. Nothing is going on after 9khz, bass is mellow, boomy and lush with no physicality.
I have L300, 404LE and SR007(mk 2.9). I have Carbon to drive them and before that I was using 007t. I also have owned L700 before.


----------



## Hubert481

So you sold L700 and are using L300 - imteresting


----------



## Tugbars (Apr 30, 2020)

I am using SR007 mostly and I switch to  404LE If I want a bit more of that "exciting" presentation.I keep L300 because I am too lazy to sell them and I think they are really bad. The idea of selling them makes me feel like I'm attempting to scam someone.Maybe if i port mod them and use L500 pads, they can sound better. Who knows.


----------



## Crashem

John_M said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on what solid state amp to get for the SR-009 or SR-009S? People seem quite underwhelmed with the new SRM-700S for the price. Does the SRM-353X have enough power to drive them properly? As regards tube amps - I want the amp to be neutral and, without understanding the technical side, don't like hearing about a 'warm tube sound' or similar. I will be using the headphones with a Smyth Realiser so want the minimum possible distortion. (Or is the view that modern Stax tube amps have no more distortion than solid state amps - no doubt this is asked a lot!)



No idea what your budget is.  But assuming you want among the best amps for this I would consider one of the following:

1) KGSSHV Carbon: These are typically made by individual custom makers.  But the most "company" like of these is Mjolnir Audio whose owner had significant part in the design of the amp.  He is also one of the foremost experts in all things electrostats.
https://mjolnir-audio.com/

2) Headamp BHSE: Even though this is a tube amp, it is considered very neutral.  Go look at the thread on BHSE Many would consider it one of the best available amps for 009/007 as well as being very nice eye candy.
https://www.headamp.com/products/blue-hawaii-se

Hope that helps.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Apr 30, 2020)

Question for the group. Unfortunately a driver blew in my 007 MK1 and I'll be sending it overseas for repair. It was an excellent headphone and great out of the BHSE and the repair is going to be very lengthy.

Does anyone know if the newer MK2's sound more similar to it, compared to the earlier versions that don't sound like it at all? From a post above it sounds like even the new ones may sound too dark and veiled? But can anyone confirm? I also know that not everyone will like either version due to it's darker nature, but I found the MK1 to be pretty damn good and a great compliment for the 009.

edit* just read the post under the first one.. sounds like the new ones still have issues.. sigh


----------



## Tugbars

All the mods that I've mentioned are actually to make mkII's have same driver setup with mkI.(same port, same ear-driver distance) And with these mods mkII's sound very close to mkI. mkII drivers have better treble performance.(probably they upgraded the material they have used for diaphragm?) If you'll send the to repair they'll put mk2.9 drivers which are really good.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Tugbars said:


> All the mods that I've mentioned are actually to make mkII's have same driver setup with mkI.(same port, same ear-driver distance) And with these mods mkII's sound very close to mkI. mkII drivers have better treble performance.(probably they upgraded the material they have used for diaphragm?) If you'll send the to repair they'll put mk2.9 drivers which are really good.




These are going to an individual for repair. He'll assess and then repair, but I'm not sure if that includes driver replacement. In either case, I was potentially thinking of a used MK2 or such to replace for now. Given the need for mods, I'll just wait or wait for a used MK1 pair to come available. Thank you for the help!


----------



## John_M

Tugbars said:


> For electrostatic amplifiers, voltage is all that is really required for volume. Multiplying voltages is actually easy for amplifiers. Even Stax 252S can make your headphones can go very loud. You probably wouldn't find it's sound very pleasant though. The current that amplifiers can deliver determine how capable they are in driving electrostatic headphones. On higher sound volumes, amplifiers tasked to deliver higher voltage and as the voltage goes higher the amount of current required to have full 20-20khz extension goes higher too.
> 
> Electrostatic headphones have very high impedance, for example 007's impedance is 170k at 10khz. Probably it's around 350k at 20hz or even more. The amount of current needed which can go through such impedances is high. The bass rumble, the bass impact becomes much more prominent with stronger amps.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the response. The trafo idea is interesting.

I noticed that the poster cited earlier (tabness) responded to a post which was substantially the same as this on the other thread as follows:



> Those values seem to be calculated for both full voltage swing available by the amp and the full 20 kHz sine wave.
> 
> In real world usage the required output stage current would be far lower because most music power bandwidth would be in the range of 3 to 5 kHz (there was a study cited earlier in this thread that found one example of music requiring 15 kHz) and there shouldn't really be a need to swing that much voltage on the amp anyway (not to mention I have read that slew rate limitation distortion isn't the easiest to hear anyway).
> 
> Using 95 dB to 101 dB as the sensitivity of the 009 at 100 Vrms (as Stax measured at 1 kHz where there is a peak) the 353X at lower than the max output voltage (200 Vrms) would still give an extra 6 dB of headroom basically allowing for for 101 to 107 dB peaks which if you're listening close to the upper limits of reasonable average levels (75 dB to 80 dB) gives you 20 to 25 dB of headroom for peaks which covers the tough requirements of classical nevermind other stuff.



Do you have a response to this?


----------



## Sviatoslav

Tugbars said:


> All the mods that I've mentioned are actually to make mkII's have same driver setup with mkI.(same port, same ear-driver distance) And with these mods mkII's sound very close to mkI. mkII drivers have better treble performance.(probably they upgraded the material they have used for diaphragm?) If you'll send the to repair they'll put mk2.9 drivers which are really good.



Does anybody know when Stax started using the new, current drivers on the SR-007 Mk II? I reckon that Stax now scramble serial numbers so that they are no longer dependable for determining age. One would, then, have to know the production date to know which transducers were installed, I figure. Or is there any other way, besides listening, to reliably determine the driver type used in a pair of SR-007 Mk II's?


----------



## John_M

Crashem said:


> No idea what your budget is.  But assuming you want among the best amps for this I would consider one of the following:
> 
> 1) KGSSHV Carbon: These are typically made by individual custom makers.  But the most "company" like of these is Mjolnir Audio whose owner had significant part in the design of the amp.  He is also one of the foremost experts in all things electrostats.
> https://mjolnir-audio.com/
> ...



Thanks for the reply. I'm not ruling out spending this much but I'm trying to avoid it if possible.  Currently I'm thinking maybe just to go with something like a 727-ii which can be picked up much more cheaply than the SRM-700S and has more power than the amp I originally suggested. But it's interesting that there seem to be clear differences of opinion on what improvements a more powerful amp would give - will keep following the thread...

The tube vs solid state is another can of worms entirely. Like I said, I'll be using this with a Realizer and so would want the minimum possible distortion - if someone tells me confidently that a tube amp can deliver this, that would be interesting too...


----------



## Tugbars (May 1, 2020)

Sviatoslav said:


> Does anybody know when Stax started using the new, current drivers on the SR-007 Mk II? I reckon that Stax now scramble serial numbers so that they are no longer dependable for determining age. One would, then, have to know the production date to know which transducers were installed, I figure. Or is there any other way, besides listening, to reliably determine the driver type used in a pair of SR-007 Mk II's?



Nobody knows for sure, rumors say since 3 years all the new models are mk 2.9 which is considered as the best 007 model for some. You still gotta do the port mod though. It is a very simple mod and unless you don't intend to, it's impossible to damage anything within the driver. Taking pads out can be a bit tricky, luckily STAX has launched a video on their official youtube channel guiding how to take pads out and how to put them back.



> Thanks for the reply. I'm not ruling out spending this much but I'm trying to avoid it if possible.  Currently I'm thinking maybe just to go with something like a 727-ii which can be picked up much more cheaply than the SRM-700S and has more power than the amp I originally suggested. But it's interesting that there seem to be clear differences of opinion on what improvements a more powerful amp would give - will keep following the thread...
> 
> The tube vs solid state is another can of worms entirely. Like I said, I'll be using this with a Realizer and so would want the minimum possible distortion - if someone tells me confidently that a tube amp can deliver this, that would be interesting too...



Unless you mod it, 727 is really bad.




John_M said:


> Do you have a response to this?



Totally true, those values are for full 20-20khz extension, Even most of contemporary classical music pieces have nothing going on after 14khz.


----------



## John_M

Tugbars said:


> Totally true, those values are for full 20-20khz extension, Even most of contemporary classical music pieces have nothing going on after 14khz.



Thanks for this reply... but what does this mean in terms of how much power is actually needed? It sounds like even though you agree with this part of his reasoning, you don't agree with his conclusion, which was "...the 353X really seems to have enough to drive the 009 unless you start listening to really loud levels." Is there something else about his numbers that you don't agree with?

Note your comment about the 727 - I'm still thinking about this...


----------



## AudioThief

Tugbars said:


> Ah yeah, I remember you were also saying that L300 is better than SR007. I see no reason to change your opinions but I don't agree with them.  I gave you the numbers of how much power these amplifiers are lacking. Things get messy for amplifiers as you turn the volume higher, at extremely low sound levels even SRM-252S should be able to drive SR007 to it's "fullest".That's one of the reasons why frequency response of headphones from different amplifiers show almost no difference. However, the volume levels where they can deliver enough power is quite low. After a certain volume level, they start only adding compression artefacts to sound.



Nice strawman, I've never in my life said L300 are better than SR-007. I've said I prefer their forward sound signature, which is something completely different. Looking at the numbers, you can see that the 252s cannot actually drive the 007, but the 727 and 007t can.


----------



## Tugbars

If you say so.


----------



## PJJK

Hi all. This is my first post, so perhaps I’m about to resurrect an issue that has been dealt with in the past. I apologise if so.

What I want to talk about is an issue I am having with a CCS mod on a 006T, but before I detail this, I must thank Kevin Gilmore for sending me his Gerber files so that I could have some PCB’s manufactured.

My issue relates to the voltage across the DN2540 source resistor and because of this I have not ventured beyond the first CCS module. I’m using a 9V battery to set the current and started with a 430 Ohm resistor in parallel with a 5k Ohm pot. The result was a drop to 7V's no matter where the pot was set. I then dropped out the pot and replaced the 430 Ohm resistor with a number of resistors of different values, with the same result. I can only assume that I am doing something incorrectly or perhaps I have a faulty component. I’m not quite sure where to go from here, so any help I can muster would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Deolum (May 2, 2020)

Hello,

i need some help. I never heard a Stax and now i want to buy a used Stax Set. I need some suggestions which of the following ebay offerings is the best and which would be a good entry in the Stax world (i live in Europe)

Lamda Pro + SRM-1/MK 2 = 720 €
SR 303 + SRM 310 = 550 €
SR 303 + SRM 323 II = 800 €
SR 207 + SRM -1/MK II = 750 €
SR 202 + SRM 212 = 370 €
Lambdra Pro + SRM-T1 = 720 € (i like tubes but is it safe to buy 20 year old device with tubes? Do i have to change them?)
SR 202 + SRM 310 = 550 €

Is there anything else i have to take care of? Can i just plug in my DAC via RCA to the Stax Amps like any other Amp too?

Thanks !


----------



## afgmjkl

PJJK said:


> Hi all. This is my first post, so perhaps I’m about to resurrect an issue that has been dealt with in the past. I apologise if so.
> 
> What I want to talk about is an issue I am having with a CCS mod on a 006T, but before I detail this, I must thank Kevin Gilmore for sending me his Gerber files so that I could have some PCB’s manufactured.
> 
> My issue relates to the voltage across the DN2540 source resistor and because of this I have not ventured beyond the first CCS module. I’m using a 9V battery to set the current and started with a 430 Ohm resistor in parallel with a 5k Ohm pot. The result was a drop to 7V's no matter where the pot was set. I then dropped out the pot and replaced the 430 Ohm resistor with a number of resistors of different values, with the same result. I can only assume that I am doing something incorrectly or perhaps I have a faulty component. I’m not quite sure where to go from here, so any help I can muster would be greatly appreciated.



DN2540 has different pin configuration between TO-92 and TO-220.
Did you use TO-92 version?


----------



## AudioThief

Deolum said:


> Hello,
> 
> i need some help. I never heard a Stax and now i want to buy a used Stax Set. I need some suggestions which of the following ebay offerings is the best and which would be a good entry in the Stax world (i live in Europe)
> 
> ...



I'd go for the Lambda pro in best condition possible. Any of the stax amps can drive it. The DAC connects into the amp normally. If you go for tubes, you might need to change them, yes. You need to watch out for if the amp needs a transformer or not, but beyond that its nothing. By the list you put up, I would say get the Pro + SRM-1/MK 2 and call it a day.


----------



## AceMew

Just ordered Sr 007, does anyone here in Europe have a 353x or equivalent for sale?


----------



## o7brother

Anybody compared the 009 and 007 MK2.9 in terms of bass "detail"? Obviously the 007 is much warmer, but I'm finding my 009 actually has faster bass attack and decay than my 007 MK1, but what about the MK2.9?


----------



## AceMew

I’m also taking suggestions if there’s anything better out there around the same price


----------



## AudioThief

AceMew said:


> Just ordered Sr 007, does anyone here in Europe have a 353x or equivalent for sale?


https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=177400675

This is in Norway. Fair warning - 353x isn't adequate for 007. Get 717/727 or a third party amp.


o7brother said:


> Anybody compared the 009 and 007 MK2.9 in terms of bass "detail"? Obviously the 007 is much warmer, but I'm finding my 009 actually has faster bass attack and decay than my 007 MK1, but what about the MK2.9?



009 beats any and all 007 in terms of technicality, be it bass or anything else. 007 having a warmer sound signature (which is more important than any difference in technicality) is the reason people talk so positively about 007. As for differences between mk1 and mk2 I can't say cause I haven't heard mk2, but based on my extensive reading, there is nothing mk2 does better than mk1.


----------



## AceMew

AudioThief said:


> https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=177400675
> 
> This is in Norway. Fair warning - 353x isn't adequate for 007. Get 717/727 or a third party amp.
> 
> ...



I’m not in Norway though and dunno how to contact the seller


----------



## o7brother

AudioThief said:


> 009 beats any and all 007 in terms of technicality, be it bass or anything else. 007 having a warmer sound signature (which is more important than any difference in technicality) is the reason people talk so positively about 007



This is my experience with my 009 and 007 MK1. Glad to know I'm not going crazy


----------



## AudioThief

AceMew said:


> I’m not in Norway though and dunno how to contact the seller



You could register at the site and PM him on there, or if you want I can ask him for his number and so on... You said Europe so I figured it might be of interest 

@o7brother hehe yeah, its important to remember that how important signature is at this level of headphone. Case in point, I must concede that the 007 is in almost every way superior to my L500s in terms of technicality, yet due to my personal preferences I just end up enjoying the L500 more by a strand of hair. The 009 is to my ears as perfect a headphone as there exists, however I wouldn't recommend them to someone who enjoys hiphop or radio hit music - I'd just hand them a fostex or something


----------



## AceMew

AudioThief said:


> You could register at the site and PM him on there, or if you want I can ask him for his number and so on... You said Europe so I figured it might be of interest


Yes please, it would be awesome if you could ask him if he’s willing to ship it to another country and if he is, please ask for an email so I can contact him


----------



## AudioThief

AceMew said:


> Yes please, it would be awesome if you could ask him if he’s willing to ship it to another country and if he is, please ask for an email so I can contact him



I'll PM him right now, its late here so he likely won't respond until tomorrow at the earliest. I'll ask him just that and get back to you.


----------



## AceMew

AudioThief said:


> I'll PM him right now, its late here so he likely won't respond until tomorrow at the earliest. I'll ask him just that and get back to you.


Ok, thanks a lot


----------



## AudioThief

AceMew said:


> Ok, thanks a lot



Hi, he answered straight away. Unfortunately he felt it was too much hassle to send internationally. Sorry about that.


----------



## AceMew

AudioThief said:


> Hi, he answered straight away. Unfortunately he felt it was too much hassle to send internationally. Sorry about that.


:/ rip, guess I’ll just be looking at the sr 007 without being able to use them


----------



## AudioThief

AceMew said:


> :/ rip, guess I’ll just be looking at the sr 007 without being able to use them



If it makes you feel any better, I went through the same thing with mine. Had a 007 mk1 just sitting there for a long while without getting to use them. I recommend being patient and look out for the more powerful stax amps like 717/727, or 007. I wish I never sold mine, such a great pair of headphones.


----------



## Crashem

John_M said:


> Thanks for the reply. I'm not ruling out spending this much but I'm trying to avoid it if possible.  Currently I'm thinking maybe just to go with something like a 727-ii which can be picked up much more cheaply than the SRM-700S and has more power than the amp I originally suggested. But it's interesting that there seem to be clear differences of opinion on what improvements a more powerful amp would give - will keep following the thread...
> 
> The tube vs solid state is another can of worms entirely. Like I said, I'll be using this with a Realizer and so would want the minimum possible distortion - if someone tells me confidently that a tube amp can deliver this, that would be interesting too...



If I was you, I would be looking for a used KGSSHV.  I bet one could be had at reasonable price.

As for tube Amp, I can say a bhse would fit the bill of minimal distortion.


----------



## AceMew

Crashem said:


> If I was you, I would be looking for a used KGSSHV.  I bet one could be had at reasonable price.
> 
> As for tube Amp, I can say a bhse would fit the bill of minimal distortion.


Too expensive, no used ones on the market


----------



## PJJK

afgmjkl said:


> DN2540 has different pin configuration between TO-92 and TO-220.
> Did you use TO-92 version?





afgmjkl said:


> DN2540 has different pin configuration between TO-92 and TO-220.
> Did you use TO-92 version?


Thank you. It was definitely TO220 version


----------



## Degru (May 3, 2020)

Question: If my stax pads were ever to deteriorate and needed to be replaced, what would be my best bet for getting replacements? Stax USA seems to sell the EP507 sheepskin pads like on the 404LE. However, I have the 404 Signature and 202. Would those pads work? I can't find any other US source of stax pads for older models. The JP site has the EP234BL for the 202 and 404S as well as the older lambdas, but they don't ship to US obviously. Shape looks the same, wonder if the material will make much difference...

Both of my Stax have the pads in very good condition, so I'm hoping they stay that way. But I'm keeping these two as my endgame pairs, so I want to prepare for any eventuality.


----------



## Tugbars

vesper audio can make one for you if you can give the details of what you want.


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## John_M

Tugbars, do you have any thoughts on the 717 ? Or you said the 727 would need to be modded ... who would do this work?


----------



## Tugbars

717 is one of the good STAX amps. KGSSHV design is based on 717 also.(needs verification) You can check https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/8703-the-srm727-thread/ on how to do the mod and maybe can find someone who can do the mod for you.


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## AceMew

Does anyone know if a recently serviced srm 1 mk2 would be good enough for sr 007? Kenrockwell says it is but wouldn’t mind a couple more opinions


----------



## powertoold

AceMew said:


> Does anyone know if a recently serviced srm 1 mk2 would be good enough for sr 007? Kenrockwell says it is but wouldn’t mind a couple more opinions



No, I've tried it before. It's going to have lots of distortion, even at low-medium volumes.


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## AceMew

powertoold said:


> No, I've tried it before. It's going to have lots of distortion, even at low-medium volumes.


How about 323s ? Is the 353x the only cheaper recent option?


----------



## AudioThief

AceMew said:


> How about 323s ? Is the 353x the only cheaper recent option?



717 or 727ii of the Stax amps. Can also do with a 007t. Beware, a lot of people will tell you that you have to get third party amps for them "to shine". Do me a favor, don't listen to them. But do get something with power. The less powerful stax amps are great for literally any Stax headphone except the 007.


----------



## AceMew

AudioThief said:


> 717 or 727ii of the Stax amps. Can also do with a 007t. Beware, a lot of people will tell you that you have to get third party amps for them "to shine". Do me a favor, don't listen to them. But do get something with power. The less powerful stax amps are great for literally any Stax headphone except the 007.


You say “get something with power” but here I am waiting for literally anything that’s not over 20 years old to pop up for sale :3


----------



## Tugbars (May 4, 2020)

As someone who had 007t and using KGSSHV Carbon with SR007 now, I must say that there's big difference. A good speaker amp & SRD7/mkII(or lundahls) comes very close performance-wise to Carbon. Listen to what other says too, then again I am someone who had both, experienced both, spent a lot of time on Equalizer APO to make themsound  as good as they can be. So yeah that's my perspective.


----------



## Degru (May 4, 2020)

I'm getting a second pair of 202 for a friend that has a broken peg (the bit that slots into the earspeaker) on the yoke on one side, but otherwise everything in working condition. I could probably get a replacement yoke 3D printed, but how does the yoke come off the headband? I'm poking around my current pair but can't figure out how to take the headband itself apart. Conveniently the Stax site sells entire new headbands but, inconveniently, it's only in Japan.

EDIT: I just saw the US site sells headbands for L300 that work on 202. Silly me. Still, $75 is pretty steep for some plastic.


----------



## astrostar59

dripf said:


> The 007 is more sensitive than other models according to its specs. On another forum, the 007 was level matched across different amps to a quite high 105 dB. There was no difference in frequency response between 252s and 717. It's time for big amp proponents to explain the value, and in clearer terms than "controls the driver with more authority".


Sorry, I disagree. Having owned most of the old and current models at some point, the 007 is not as efficient to my ears as any of the other current line up. They also need a powerful amp to wake them up, it is not just about volume.
The 717 which I also owned for some time, was ahead of the 252, 323, 313 and 727. Until Stax brought out the T-8000 is was the best amp they had made for some time. T2 excepted. Some older T1s were not bad either. The more recent models were not great.
The T-8000 is IMO a major letdown. There re better amps for less.


----------



## Tugbars (May 4, 2020)

capacitance of stators & diaphragm tension determine how hard electrostatic headphones are to drive. Closed stator designs withsmall holes and/or has a thick ring on the edge etc also increase the load on the amp. The more closed the design is, the harder it is to drive. 007 has very low diaphram tension relatively to other models and it's stators have only few open areas relatively to other models.


----------



## protoss (May 4, 2020)

What Stax needs to do is release an SR-007 MK3. An *efficient* easy to drive 007 and end all this useless amp dependant nonsense. And for the love of Zeus detachable cables for all of your gears. 

Stax I know you reading this you slowpokes, wheres my,

Stax 007 MK3
New Omega
Sigma X
L900

You better not release another lame 009 SS version!


----------



## Tshiknn

I've recently gotten a used Stax SR-Lambda. However, the earpads were never replaced (it seems), and they haven't aged super well, as they're now rather hard and just a bit uncomfortable. So I'm looking for earpad replacements. I would love to get something custom, maybe one of the alcantara earpads from Vesper Audio, but I'm worried about whether this would change the sound. I understand that I need to keep the dimensions the same as the original, but would the material make a difference? If so, I will just get some of the replacement Stax earpads - I just like alcantara as a material and wonder if I could get away with it!


----------



## ired

Bias voltage adjustment?

I just acquired a SRM-1 Mk2 PP (C-series) amp complete with it's original caps. So while I have it open to replace the vintage electrolytics, I'd like to make a few mods e.g. add balanced inputs and (output) safety resistors which should be fairly straight forward.

I'd also like to add a bias voltage adjustment along the lines of the SRM-T1*W* variant amp which had a (front panel) bias voltage trim. Not sure how to best modify the existing voltage divider (R301 - R303) to do so. Hoping to end up with a +/- 20V adjustment for experimentation or occasionally driving non Stax phones e.g.the ESP950 is said to prefer 600V rather than 580V. Here is the SRM-1 Mk2 schematic.. any suggestions on how to tweak the bias voltage?


----------



## o7brother

I'm kind of wondering if it's worth going all the way to the Carbon for the SR-009 or if the regular KGSSHV would already be overkill.

I don't listen at super high volumes and I'd like to save some desk space. I've heard the KGSSHV is somewhat bright sounding, whereas the Carbon is less so, but with a bit of EQ I think either one would work wonders for the 009.


----------



## Tugbars (May 5, 2020)

Carbon is using Silicon Carbide Mosfets. They clip softly like tubes and distort like tubes. Better to say, their sound is as close as solid state can get to tube sound.  That's why Birgir says, the design idea of Carbon born to tame down trebles of 009. I honestly haven't tested 009 on different amplifiers.I don't have any subjective opinions/experiences to share, however, Carbon is designed to be used with 009. It's important to keep that in mind.  What I know by experience is that, 009 takes bass EQ very well, however attempts on taming down trebles with EQ compromises detail.


----------



## o7brother

Tugbars said:


> attempts on taming down trebles with EQ compromises detail.



Hmm, with my current 717 amp I feel like this isn't the case. EQ'ing the treble makes it not so "in your face", but the details are still there, just not front-line


----------



## AudioThief

o7brother said:


> I'm kind of wondering if it's worth going all the way to the Carbon for the SR-009 or if the regular KGSSHV would already be overkill.
> 
> I don't listen at super high volumes and I'd like to save some desk space. I've heard the KGSSHV is somewhat bright sounding, whereas the Carbon is less so, but with a bit of EQ I think either one would work wonders for the 009.



Considering that almost all of Stax' own amps are sufficient for the 009 bar the portable and 252s, its beyond overkill.


----------



## John_M

AudioThief said:


> Considering that almost all of Stax' own amps are sufficient for the 009 bar the portable and 252s, its beyond overkill.



I wish we could get some consensus on this claim or at least see some more technical discussion of it. 

Some of us need to make a decision, don't particularly want to drop several thousand to dump one of these mega-powered giant amps on our desks, and would much prefer something smaller and subtler. But we're told constantly that we need to do it.... And it's not just price - I'd rather have the 353X taking up less space even if prices were equal.


----------



## AudioThief (May 5, 2020)

John_M said:


> I wish we could get some consensus on this claim or at least see some more technical discussion of it.
> 
> Some of us need to make a decision, don't particularly want to drop several thousand to dump one of these mega-powered giant amps on our desks, and would much prefer something smaller and subtler. But we're told constantly that we need to do it.... And it's not just price - I'd rather have the 353X taking up less space even if prices were equal.



Yes, this is the unfortunate thing about discussions regarding high end audiophile equipment. What ends up happening is a very small "elite" being regarded as some elder wizards with divine knowledge, and a bunch of underlings parroting that sentiment. The few who end up dropping $6k or more on a Carbon/BHSE will of course swear that their headphones only came alive after buying (or demoing) that. I'm sure we've all been very, very impressed by a sound demo before. Now its not allowed to turn discussion here into science, but we have to allowed to arrest someone if they are making laughable claims. Lets say there was a "magical" amplifier costing 100k USD that made the HD800S faster than any estat in existance - we would require proof for that claim, no?

Anyways, having spent a fortune on sound equipment, I can with confidence say that I've heard changes in EVERY SINGLE UPGRADE I've ever made to my rig. New DAC? Made the soundstage wider, treble smoother - new cables? Made the background blacker. I had to spend an insane amount of money before I realized that it was actually in my head. Before I had that realization, I had some comical experiences - I remember liking my rig better when it was hooked up to my stationary PC than my laptop. Why? Because I was more comfortable infront of the large screen of my stationary. I also liked my rig better in winter because it was dark outside all the time, which made me enjoy it more. I didn't realize it at the time, because I had no awareness of how my mind was playing tricks on me.

Again, not to turn this into a subjectivist vs objectivist debate, but look at it logically - The SR-007 was released before the guys over at HeadCase had ever made an amplifier for it. Stax showed it off on shows alongside the SRM 007t, an amp with 340V output (717/727/the new ones, SRM 1 / MK2, 353x and so on all having a higher output). Would the engineers behind the headphone really audition it with an amplifier that left any sound on the table? The very engineers behind the headphone? It makes no sense.

I've personally owned a SR-007mk1, paired it with an UNMODDED(yes, the absolute sacrilage of not modding it!) SRM 727ii - and guess what, it sounded absolutely AMAZING! Better than any headphone I've ever heard before or since! And knowing how amplifiers work, I know for a fact that even if I plugged it into an amplifier the size of a supertanker, it wouldn't sound any better!

I know discussing this topic is pointless, because it just devolves into "I've heard it and I trust my ears", but if you have any sense of logic, I hope you can buy a fitting amp and enjoy the best headphone on the planet (to my ears). 

edit: and this argument of course goes for the 009 as well - in fact even more so.


----------



## catscratch

Alternatively, it could be because what people say about aftermarket amps reflects their knowledge and experience gathered over decades, instead of it being some vast elitist conspiracy to push gear. Especially when said people are also professors and engineers and have the credentials to match.

But, if you don't hear any difference, that's fine. You do you. 



Spoiler



Just not too often, you'll go blind.


----------



## AudioThief

catscratch said:


> Alternatively, it could be because what people say about aftermarket amps reflects their knowledge and experience gathered over decades, instead of it being some vast elitist conspiracy to push gear. Especially when said people are also professors and engineers and have the credentials to match.
> 
> But, if you don't hear any difference, that's fine. You do you.
> 
> ...



The people having knowledge about amplifiersonly makes them slightly less susceptible to audiophoolery unfortunately. Its not an elitist conspiracy, I think its entirely natural as I myself have been victim of the same delusions. I too have a lot of gathered experience about gear, but once I became aware of the placebo I fell victim to time and time again, I was able to accurately assess what was actually different and what wasn't. Biases are absolutely massive when it comes to audio. There are very intelligent people who seriously believes that their rig only truly came alive once they invested in some nordost power cables. Now of course you could say that they are delusional, or maybe you're leaving 10-20% of performance on the table with suboptimal "mass marketing" cables..... Who knows? Only the ones who purchase the nordost cables..


----------



## Tugbars (May 5, 2020)

I guess I'm more concerned in judging what I hear than just let it go. I haven't listened to headphones which are even close to amazing. Every headphone has flaws; some more, some less. 007 has huge recession in 2-4k, it's 8k peak can make it become sibilant. Because of how it's designed it lacks micro detail compared to open models like 009(it's mid detail and treble resolution can be better than 009 in some songs), soundstage is limited also because of it's closed design. They sacrificed too much from soundstage & micro detail to acoustically damp the driver.



> Would the engineers behind the headphone really audition it with an amplifier that left any sound on the table?



I also find it naive to think that whatever Stax do, they do it right. There is a pressure of financial problems on their shoulders since 97'. They started using toroidal transformers in their amps 20 years late. They upgraded  output stage of their high-end amps to modern standard just recently.(they are like 40 years late on this, in 1970 Sony and Yamaha offered their first J-Fet power amplifiers, I'm talking about SRM700s - 700t) Probably they follow things from very behind, first; I think there isn't enough profit in developing new amps; second, research & development costs a lot in Japan and they don't have enough engineers.  Stax obviously doesn't have enough budget to develop good amps, their tech is really outdated, the tubes they use get compressed under load of average volume. Stax T2,their magnum opus model had serious heating problems and it's power supply wasn't well developed enough for the task. Ah one more thing, with 727 they didn't use feedback, they re-launched 727 with feedback, slammed 5.5k$ price tag on it and called it T-8000.(I don't know after how many years) So in conclusion, unfortunately, their amps are just refurbished versions of their old models which are made to be home friendly rather than being ultimately resolving. Their amps are made to drive their headphones for 100 years without pushing anything to it's limits. If you can't see these problems, I salute you, you can let things go and enjoy every moment of your life without judging it.

I think some people are just more neurotic over things.


----------



## AudioThief

Tugbars said:


> I guess I'm more concerned in judging what I hear than just let it go. I haven't listened to headphones which are even close to amazing. Every headphone has flaws; some more, some less. 007 has huge recession in 2-4k, it's 8k peak can make it become sibilant. Because of how it's designed it lacks micro detail compared to open models like 009(it's mid detail and treble resolution can be better than 009 in some songs), soundstage is limited also because of it's closed design. They sacrificed too much from soundstage & micro detail to acoustically damp the driver.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



To the first point - I agree that no headphone is flawless. But I also think the Stax lambdas and 00x's are incredible headphones and at the top of listening pleasure for my own ears - even if they aren't flawless (as no headphone are, compromises and all). The issue I have is that these flawed headphones suddently become not-so-flawed because you go from capable amplifier A to capable amplifier B. 

I think that Stax and our Icelandic engineer could have a meaningful partnership, and I definitely trust his technical knowledge. But that doesn't really take away from the fact that the changes you hear from a Stax amplifier that correctly drives a 007 or a 009 to a third party amp will be in your head, not actual audible differences. 

The design problems you mention are completely legitimate criticisms, and I agree - in fact I think Stax amps are seriously egregious, considering how cheaply made they could be - remake the SRM mk2 / pro and 717 and call it a day for SS imo. But Stax errors as a company doesn't change the fact that the amplifiers they make are properly powering the headphones they make. That goes for the 007, the 009, the omegas, the lambdas and everything else. There is no need for third party amps, and especially not massive table size power houses. Its cool if you for whatever reason want the perfect amplifier, but if you want the best actual sound, a way way way cheaper Stax amp will deliver that same sound. Now of course from here on out the argument will always devolve into "I trust my ears" and so on, and thats cool. I just want to give the opinion of "the other side" as someone who has heard and owned a lot of Stax gear - at least now, both sides are represented.


----------



## tumpux

Naah, eventually everyone needs a Carbon.
Eventually..


----------



## kevin gilmore

727 always had feedback, it was from the VAS stage, output stage ran open loop. The modification moves the feedback to the output stage.
The t8000 is a 717 with a tube front end. And current production surface mount parts.
The 700s changes one pair of npn transistors at bottom of VAS stage with jfets. Otherwise identical to 717 with current production surface mount parts.
D50 is also identical to 717 with current production parts. Including surface mount dual jfet in the input stage.

And current production parts is the biggest issue here. 2sa1968 are no longer available and 10m90 won't run at super low currents, so no 727
700t still uses plate resistors.
toroid transformers are not necessarily better, just smaller for the same amount of power. And torroid's are more sensitive to dc and other distortion on the input power.
r core transformers are actually better, but bigger and more expensive for the same power.

only the t8000 uses a regulated power supply, and then only for the tube front end. regulated high voltage requires lots more parts, and more heatsinks which means larger size.
all solid state stax amplifiers use bipolar transistors in the output stage.


----------



## Tugbars

Thanks for the corrections.I was always wondering why lundahl transformers are not toroidal.


----------



## John_M

AudioThief said:


> Again, not to turn this into a subjectivist vs objectivist debate, but look at it logically - The SR-007 was released before the guys over at HeadCase had ever made an amplifier for it. Stax showed it off on shows alongside the SRM 007t, an amp with 340V output (717/727/the new ones, SRM 1 / MK2, 353x and so on all having a higher output). Would the engineers behind the headphone really audition it with an amplifier that left any sound on the table? The very engineers behind the headphone? It makes no sense.



To be fair to the other side of the debate... if you're just going on what Stax do then why did they feel it necessary to produce the T2 if the extra output is superfluous (at the cost of causing serious issues with the product, by the sound of things...)


----------



## AudioThief

John_M said:


> To be fair to the other side of the debate... if you're just going on what Stax do then why did they feel it necessary to produce the T2 if the extra output is superfluous (at the cost of causing serious issues with the product, by the sound of things...)



Because they are a company that needs to make money. If they think it will sell, they will make it. If they demoed 007s and 009s with bad amplifiers that didn't make them sound like intented, now that would make zero sense.


----------



## John_M

@ Kevin Gilmore... Thank you for posting on this thread - I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on some of the points that have been discussed (not the more 'heated' recent posts...)

As you can see I’m considering buying an amp – although I’m interested in the best sound possible, I do have reservations about the size of some of them.

The following post was attributed to you:



> STAX D50 has 300V power supplies, it requires 9ma of output of current for full extension. However, it's limited to 6ma.
> 350V power supplies require 10.6mA of output current.(T1, 717, 727 etc) They are limited to 7mA.
> 500V power supplies require 15mA. Megatron & T2 can do that. Carbon also has 20-22mA current output.
> (amplifier measurement data is taken from Kevin Gilmore)



This had the following response:



> Those values seem to be calculated for both full voltage swing available by the amp and the full 20 kHz sine wave.
> 
> In real world usage the required output stage current would be far lower because most music power bandwidth would be in the range of 3 to 5 kHz (there was a study cited earlier in this thread that found one example of music requiring 15 kHz) and there shouldn't really be a need to swing that much voltage on the amp anyway (not to mention I have read that slew rate limitation distortion isn't the easiest to hear anyway).
> 
> Using 95 dB to 101 dB as the sensitivity of the 009 at 100 Vrms (as Stax measured at 1 kHz where there is a peak) the 353X at lower than the max output voltage (200 Vrms) would still give an extra 6 dB of headroom basically allowing for for 101 to 107 dB peaks which if you're listening close to the upper limits of reasonable average levels (75 dB to 80 dB) gives you 20 to 25 dB of headroom for peaks which covers the tough requirements of classical nevermind other stuff.



The same poster also wrote the following:



> You can do the calculations with your listening level and extra headroom required for peaks but given the 009 can do 101 dB at 1 kHz with 100 Vrms and has a pretty flat response (measurements) and almost anything anyone listens to audio wise would require only a full power bandwidth of 3 to 5 kHz the 353X really seems to have enough to drive the 009 unless you start listening to really loud levels.




My questions…


Do you agree with the response?
Do you agree with the conclusion that "the 353X really seems to have enough to drive the 009 unless you start listening to really loud levels"?
Thanks!


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## Tugbars (May 6, 2020)

About T2 and Omega 1, It may be the case that STAX got rivaled by Sennheiser's HE90. They had to come up with something better, something that shows what they are capable of. I remember Sennheiser's CEO said something along the lines with "there's no good sound engineer in japan" too.(needs verification) I'm just speculating of course. I don't know the truth. Obviously though, Stax tried too hard and depleted all their resources at that point.

John_M, I remember a friend who tested 353X and KGSSHV (with 009) was saying that 353X delivers even more detail. However, 353X is likely to start getting compressed at lower volumes than KGSSHV. Big bulky amps are big and bulky simply because they can deliver more power. More power = higher possible listening volumes. However, their size and their output power doesn't tell the story of how they will sound.


----------



## John_M

AudioThief said:


> Because they are a company that needs to make money. If they think it will sell, they will make it. If they demoed 007s and 009s with bad amplifiers that didn't make them sound like intented, now that would make zero sense.



Well if it was a commercial/ profit-driven decision, it wasn't a very clever one, since (as I understand it) the T2 busted the company.


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## kevin gilmore (May 6, 2020)

John_M said:


> Do you agree with the response?
> Do you agree with the conclusion that "the 353X really seems to have enough to drive the 009 unless you start listening to really loud levels"?



1. Back in the late 1970's Bose made a monster power amp that was -3db at 10khz. Took 2 people to move it. (bose 1801)
 It was a complete commercial failure.They used the same frequency response 
of music argument. No i don't believe it. But its far more complicated because 
slew rate limiting and thd dramatically increase when you push an amplifier 
driving a capacitor at voltage levels where there is no negative feedback 
margin left. I like amplifiers that can do 20khz at rail to rail voltage swings 
with less than .01% thd. This is not an easy thing to do.

2. depends on your definition of loud. as an example the d10 which everyone seems to agree is not loud enough.


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## AudioThief

John_M said:


> Well if it was a commercial/ profit-driven decision, it wasn't a very clever one, since (as I understand it) the T2 busted the company.



They aren't exempt from bad decisions, but there's a difference between making a commercially failed product vs making a great headphone but unable to create something as simple as an amplifier to drive it in their vast range of amplifiers.

I'd be surprised if Kevin Gilmore or Spritzer was to claim that they could hear audible differences between Stax amps like the 353x/727 vs KGSSHV or Carbon. We all know what happens with sighted tests.. Engineers will generally have a more realistic pictures of what produces difference in sounds and what doesn't... They can build you the perfectly built amplifier, but they can't make an amplifier give wider soundstage or deeper bass to a pair of headphones. They can refer to happy customers with glowing reviews, but I'd be surprised if they claimed the difference exist because technical reason a or b.


----------



## Tugbars

You literally claim that no one can hear audible difference between 353X and KGSSHV Carbon. Okay, wow. Have you ever listened to Carbon btw? or T2 or Megatron?


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## AudioThief (May 6, 2020)

Tugbars said:


> You literally claim that no one can hear audible difference between 353X and KGSSHV Carbon. Okay, wow. Have you ever listened to Carbon btw? or T2 or Megatron?



I definitely believe people really do believe they hear the difference in sighted tests. But I don't think the difference is actually there. If the amplifier is powerful enough to drive the headphone, as is the case with, for instance a 353x and a 009, then more power will not produce a different sound.

edit: and no, I haven't listened to Carbon/T2/Megatron connected to its own power grid with all cables being handmade by the best engineers over at nordost. And this is the problem with the topic - it always devolved to "I can easily hear the difference and I've paid 100k USD for my rig so stop talking if you haven't heard this very rig"


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## Tugbars (May 6, 2020)

Amplifiers and their differences can easily be measured unlike cables. I use basic cables that I bought from Thomann for example. Then again, I have to ask if you don't know the internal operation of amplifiers and if you can't come up with scientific information that proves amplifiers can't sound different in ABX test or if you lack experience with the amps you talk about; why would you make bold statements like you are doing?(you'll refuse to acknowledge them being bold but anyway) That I can't understand. I can't understand the motivation here. I believe keeping the skepticism is healthy here. You talk about something that you haven't experienced, you don't know, however, you choose to make bold statements. You think we are here to tell how superior our systems are? I really hated how my 007s sound like while I was using them with 007t, I just don't want anybody else to do same mistakes I did for example. I thought I have paid all this money for my 007s and 007t for nothing. I lost a lot of money while selling that 007t too. That's all.


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## John_M

Thanks for the replies everyone. Really I should just audition some of these amps (maybe do it blind...) although obviously not straightforward at the moment.


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## AudioThief (May 6, 2020)

Tugbars said:


> Amplifiers and their differences can easily be measured unlike cables. I use basic cables that I bought from Thomann for example. Then again, I have to ask if you don't know the internal operation of amplifiers and if you can't come up with scientific information that proves amplifiers can't sound different in ABX test or if you lack experience with the amps you talk about; why would you make bold statements like you are doing?(you'll refuse to acknowledge them being bold but anyway) That I can't understand. I can't understand the motivation here. I believe keeping the skepticism is healthy here. You talk about something that you haven't experienced, you don't know, however, you choose to make bold statements. You think we are here to tell how superior our systems are? I really hated how my 007s sound like while I was using them with 007t, I just don't want anybody else to do same mistakes I did for example. I thought I have paid all this money for my 007s and 007t for nothing. I lost a lot of money while selling my 007t too. That's all.



My motivation for posting here is because I too once believed that audio is an infinite road of upwards progression. And that isn't the case. And I want to step in and save people like John_M money by telling him the truth about amps for stax headphones.

I lack technical understanding, but I am capable of understanding explanations of why amplifiers that are within error margin and almost perfectly linear are identical to our ears sound wise. Remember what an amplifiers job is. There are an endless amount of content out there to prove, beyond anectodal evidence, why the Carbon or BHSE does not improve the sound of the headphone beyond any other capable amplifier (like Stax own amps).

I have myself fell victim to believing there was differences where there were in fact none. With DACs, cables, USB to coax converters and so on. Once I understood that this simply could not be the case, I could save myself a lot of money and focus my efforts where they really mattered - the headphones themselves.

edit: and please tugbars don't feel as if I am trying to accuse you of elitism - I am not, I completely understand your position because I was myself exactly in your shoes, but my perspective has changed. And I see errors in the way this topic is handled, because I myself was victim to the way the topic of amplifiers and especially amplifiers regarding these exotic headphones go.


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## protoss (May 6, 2020)

John_M said:


> why did they feel it necessary to produce



This was the time and era of the *golden period*. 1982 to 1994 was the legendary years of CD-Players and other extravagant hi-end no-nonsense gear.

For headphones we had,

1989 R10
1990 HP1000 (he's not in my picture down below  ) my 007MK1 will instead be in its spot. 
1991 HE90
1993 Stax OMEGA




And then the other gear such as,

1994 Stax T2




This not including the countless other hi-end legendary speakers, turntables, and especially CD-PLAYERs. Till this day those 4 headphones and a few others are untouchable. I have 3 CDplayers from the 80s that run loops over these new one's today!

They made the T2 because it was the time of the times (even thou it had problems). These days everyone has gone soft and sensitive so they start to rehashing the same stuff.


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## protoss (May 6, 2020)

Now lets get to business

Stax wheres my *efficient* SR-007 MK3!
Stop wasting peoples time with the lame 009 SSS triple S versions !

I am expecting 4 headphones from you!

Stax 007 MK3
Sigma X
2023 Omega anniversary (better not mess this up)
L900

Giddy up!


----------



## Torac

Hi,

Came back to my srm-t1 which isn't working on the left channel (makes a clicking sound but no audio).

Tried to rebias it and found the voltage didn't move much when turning the variable pots inside. I want to try replacing them, anyone know if I should pick a specific replacement, the originals are 2k ohm.


----------



## ired

A standard half-watt, single turn, through hole trimmer pot should be a proper replacement. Something like this Digikey part.


----------



## Torac

ired said:


> A standard half-watt, single turn, through hole trimmer pot should be a proper replacement. Something like this Digikey part.



Much appreciated


----------



## Deolum

AudioThief said:


> I'd go for the Lambda pro in best condition possible. Any of the stax amps can drive it. The DAC connects into the amp normally. If you go for tubes, you might need to change them, yes. You need to watch out for if the amp needs a transformer or not, but beyond that its nothing. By the list you put up, I would say get the Pro + SRM-1/MK 2 and call it a day.


So i got myself a Lambda Pro and a T1 Combo for 700 bucks and i'm blown away. Easily the best setup i ever had. I'm so suprised about the versatility of this headphone. I always thought Stax ist for classic only but literally every genre sounds good with it. From classic music over blues to pop songs and charts. Right now i'm hearing trance with it which is nice too. Had never expected such a bass from a stax.


----------



## robo24

AudioThief said:


> They aren't exempt from bad decisions, but there's a difference between making a commercially failed product vs making a great headphone but unable to create something as simple as an amplifier to drive it in their vast range of amplifiers.
> 
> I'd be surprised if Kevin Gilmore or Spritzer was to claim that they could hear audible differences between Stax amps like the 353x/727 vs KGSSHV or Carbon. We all know what happens with sighted tests.. Engineers will generally have a more realistic pictures of what produces difference in sounds and what doesn't... They can build you the perfectly built amplifier, but they can't make an amplifier give wider soundstage or deeper bass to a pair of headphones. They can refer to happy customers with glowing reviews, but I'd be surprised if they claimed the difference exist because technical reason a or b.


I'm curious as to what you used when you had the SR-007 MK1. I have the MK2 on the way and have the 323A amp, but see that it has been superseded by the 353 and others in the 300 range. However, from the 2006 323A to the SRM-353XBK from 2018, they all have 400 V output according to Wikipedia. I imagine other changes have been made too. I have nothing else to compare with amp-wise, but it doesn't seem like me moving up to the 353 would provide much benefit, and I'm thinking of moving up to the iFi iESL if the 323A feels insufficient. But I'm guessing that perhaps it won't be, given that the 007 has been around in some form since 1993, I'd think the 300 series amps released after they were introduced would be capable of running it at least good enough for Stax to sell as an amp for them.


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## number1sixerfan (May 7, 2020)

deleted*


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## DaddyWhale

Deolum said:


> So i got myself a Lambda Pro and a T1 Combo for 700 bucks and i'm blown away. Easily the best setup i ever had. I'm so suprised about the versatility of this headphone. I always thought Stax ist for classic only but literally every genre sounds good with it. From classic music over blues to pop songs and charts. Right now i'm hearing trance with it which is nice too. Had never expected such a bass from a stax.


I agree. I'm almost shy about writing that I really enjoy listening to Massive Attack with my 009S and Carbon


----------



## AudioThief

Deolum said:


> So i got myself a Lambda Pro and a T1 Combo for 700 bucks and i'm blown away. Easily the best setup i ever had. I'm so suprised about the versatility of this headphone. I always thought Stax ist for classic only but literally every genre sounds good with it. From classic music over blues to pop songs and charts. Right now i'm hearing trance with it which is nice too. Had never expected such a bass from a stax.



Indeed. They are extremely versatile. To my ears, the lambdas are the best headphones for acoustic and classic because they are the clearest sounding headphones that exists with the most forward sounding signature. They are good for all genres except for bass centric ones. Lambdas, and most staxes issue is the lack of body. Thats not an issue with classical or acoustic, but a lot of modern tracks can sound thin and cold because of it. 

IMO the Pro is to my ears endgame. I would love to own one for the collect or in me 😊


----------



## o7brother

robo24 said:


> I'd think the 300 series amps released after they were introduced would be capable of running it at least good enough for Stax to sell as an amp for them.



Stax almost never updates their amp designs. Even if they did, the fact that they have 400V output would mean nothing, since you don't need more than that for just about any Stax (output current is another debate).

It's been said that Stax has only two circuits, the solid state one and the tube one, which isn't entirely accurate, but not too far from the truth either. Just look at the tear-downs of the SRM-T8000 amp, you will see it's basically a slight upgrade to the 727 but costs a lot more.

The 353X is basically a 323S with XLR inputs. The 717 is basically a 353X with more output transistors. There have been few major improvements in Stax's amp designs over the years.


----------



## John_M

Tugbars said:


> John_M, I remember a friend who tested 353X and KGSSHV (with 009) was saying that 353X delivers even more detail. However, 353X is likely to start getting compressed at lower volumes than KGSSHV. Big bulky amps are big and bulky simply because they can deliver more power. More power = higher possible listening volumes. However, their size and their output power doesn't tell the story of how they will sound.



Thanks... so this is another thing to throw into the mix i.e. the 353X possibly delivers more detail.

I also noticed that the amps shown on the Mjolnir Audio page don't seem to have an RCA in whereas the Stax amps do (?) This may be an issue.

So if I went with a Stax solid state amp maybe either the 353X or the 717 - perhaps the 717 for the extra power? The issue with the 717 is that it was discontinued over 10 years ago so any available amp will be very old now.


----------



## o7brother

John_M said:


> 353X possibly delivers more detail



Sounds questionable to me. Why on earth would the Mafia amps sound less "detailed"? I'll give more feedback once I compare my 717 to my upcoming KGSSHV, both with the 009 and 007.



John_M said:


> don't seem to have an RCA in whereas the Stax amps do (?) This may be an issue



Why would this be an issue? Just use adapters if your DAC only has RCA outs.



John_M said:


> So if I went with a Stax solid state amp maybe either the 353X or the 717



You'd have a good amplifier. Not as good as the Mafia ones in an engineering sense but also much cheaper. I'm probably selling my 717 after I get the KGSSHV, so stick around


----------



## John_M

o7brother said:


> Sounds questionable to me. Why on earth would the Mafia amps sound less "detailed"? I'll give more feedback once I compare my 717 to my upcoming KGSSHV, both with the 009 and 007.



Yes, I don't know the answer to this one - was just repeating from Tugbars's post. 

In light of the very 'heated' discussions there have been on the thread, it would be interesting if you got someone to blind test you...


----------



## AudioThief

John_M said:


> Yes, I don't know the answer to this one - was just repeating from Tugbars's post.
> 
> In light of the very 'heated' discussions there have been on the thread, it would be interesting if you got someone to blind test you...



There is zero chance anyone can distinguish the amps in blind testing, and everyone knows that here. I can promise you that every single one of the mafia heads have no confidence in any sort of rigorous testing. One amp isn't more "detailed" than another, or make a headphone sound warm or cold. And it definitely doesn't work like "the more you pay for the amp the better it is". You could give someone literally owning a Carbon, put a 353x inside a Carbon chassis and show it to him, and he wouldn't be able to tell it apart from his own. Guaranteed.


----------



## DaddyWhale

AudioThief said:


> There is zero chance anyone can distinguish the amps in blind testing, and everyone knows that here. I can promise you that every single one of the mafia heads have no confidence in any sort of rigorous testing. One amp isn't more "detailed" than another, or make a headphone sound warm or cold. And it definitely doesn't work like "the more you pay for the amp the better it is". You could give someone literally owning a Carbon, put a 353x inside a Carbon chassis and show it to him, and he wouldn't be able to tell it apart from his own. Guaranteed.


I'm not sure what the value is of your repeating this claim ad nauseam. You've made your views quite clear, many many times. In m view, repeating it further does not contribute to a level-headed discovery. It precludes it.

You may be right. You may be wrong. Let others discover for themselves, either through numbers or through their experience.


----------



## John_M

AudioThief said:


> There is zero chance anyone can distinguish the amps in blind testing, and everyone knows that here. I can promise you that every single one of the mafia heads have no confidence in any sort of rigorous testing. One amp isn't more "detailed" than another, or make a headphone sound warm or cold. And it definitely doesn't work like "the more you pay for the amp the better it is". You could give someone literally owning a Carbon, put a 353x inside a Carbon chassis and show it to him, and he wouldn't be able to tell it apart from his own. Guaranteed.



I am taking a step back from the flame war that this is going to descend into.


----------



## John_M

AudioThief said:


> There is zero chance anyone can distinguish the amps in blind testing, and everyone knows that here. I can promise you that every single one of the mafia heads have no confidence in any sort of rigorous testing. One amp isn't more "detailed" than another, or make a headphone sound warm or cold. And it definitely doesn't work like "the more you pay for the amp the better it is". You could give someone literally owning a Carbon, put a 353x inside a Carbon chassis and show it to him, and he wouldn't be able to tell it apart from his own. Guaranteed.



Actually, before I take a step back, I have one more question...! Btw I am trying to stay neutral here - it's a genuine question. 

The "mafia" website includes the following statement:

"One rule has been in place since day one, I will only charge what something costs to make and not a single cent over that.  Same goes for all the DIY parts I’ve had custom made for my use over the years, I’ve shared them with enthusiasts all over the world at cost.   Profit, or at least the hope of it, kills the community spirit inherent in the DIY world which is why we give away our designs and free time to help others."

Your view is that their amps don't sound any different from much less powerful and expensive Stax amps, and also that they are well aware of this. But if they aren't making a profit from this, why are they doing it at all? What is the point of giving up your free time to make something which doesn't make any difference to anyone?

Query whether "no profit" means "after deducting an appropriate payment for my time working on it" - in which case the question would be how much "quasi-profit" they are taking. But the statement "we give away our designs and free time to help others" suggests that they aren't even being paid for their time.


----------



## AudioThief

DaddyWhale said:


> I'm not sure what the value is of your repeating this claim ad nauseam. You've made your views quite clear, many many times. In m view, repeating it further does not contribute to a level-headed discovery. It precludes it.
> 
> You may be right. You may be wrong. Let others discover for themselves, either through numbers or through their experience.



The reason I'm doing it is to help people reading, like John_M and others, who have much to gain from learning the truth. I also believe truth is a noble pursuit in itself. I wonder if I was answering questions about my views about gear in a positive light, would you then ask me to stop talking about it? Isn't this a thread suitable to discuss stax amplifiers? Give purchasing advice? Discuss the difference or lack thereof in amplifiers for certain headphones? Its not like I'm rambling incoherently, I am completely on the current topic.



John_M said:


> Actually, before I take a step back, I have one more question...! Btw I am trying to stay neutral here - it's a genuine question.
> 
> The "mafia" website includes the following statement:
> 
> ...



First off, this isn't an argument that makes sense. Ask yourself, if it was for profit, as most companies are, would you then sway towards the sound difference not being there? There are many reasons why KG and Spritzer would want to make and sell their amps. They find it rewarding, they find it fun, they like the positive feedback the community gives them and so on. Does that mean there is actually a change in sound quality? No. Go to the sound science forum, or read somewhere on the internet about how amplifiers work, psychoacoustics, why it simply cannot be that these amplifiers alter the sound of either the 009 or 007 above the quality you get from the other stax amps. And I'd be very surprised if you could find either one of them, anywhere on the internet, make a statement about their amp flat out sounding better than the Stax amps. They can talk all day about being better designed, have better parts, be more optimal and so on and so forth, but sound? I doubt it. Because both of them understand that when their reviewers starts talking about how it made their headphone come to life with bigger soundstage, blacker background, more detailed and so on - its just in their heads, not the actual sound.


----------



## paradoxper

AudioThief said:


> The reason I'm doing it is to help people reading, like John_M and others, who have much to gain from learning the truth. I also believe truth is a noble pursuit in itself. I wonder if I was answering questions about my views about gear in a positive light, would you then ask me to stop talking about it? Isn't this a thread suitable to discuss stax amplifiers? Give purchasing advice? Discuss the difference or lack thereof in amplifiers for certain headphones? Its not like I'm rambling incoherently, I am completely on the current topic.
> 
> 
> 
> First off, this isn't an argument that makes sense. Ask yourself, if it was for profit, as most companies are, would you then sway towards the sound difference not being there? There are many reasons why KG and Spritzer would want to make and sell their amps. They find it rewarding, they find it fun, they like the positive feedback the community gives them and so on. Does that mean there is actually a change in sound quality? No. Go to the sound science forum, or read somewhere on the internet about how amplifiers work, psychoacoustics, why it simply cannot be that these amplifiers alter the sound of either the 009 or 007 above the quality you get from the other stax amps. And I'd be very surprised if you could find either one of them, anywhere on the internet, make a statement about their amp flat out sounding better than the Stax amps. They can talk all day about being better designed, have better parts, be more optimal and so on and so forth, but sound? I doubt it. Because both of them understand that when their reviewers starts talking about how it made their headphone come to life with bigger soundstage, blacker background, more detailed and so on - its just in their heads, not the actual sound.




I don't think anyone who has experienced a breadth of gear over a long period of exposure would argue sound differentiation is easy, but to claim it's an
impossibility is just stupid.

Instead of harping how one should go to the Sound Science forum, why don't you start reading.

A good start that is easy to digest and understand the context of blind listening tests would be Tyll's Big Sound.
In case you aren't motivated to read, the blind-test employed validated provability of sound distinctions. Be it amps, headphones, DACs.

Shrugs.


----------



## protoss

Yikes.

You anger Mr. Hypocrite up top with his fake stax death BS.


----------



## zworykin

paradoxper said:


> I don't think anyone who has experienced a breadth of gear over a long period of exposure would argue sound differentiation is easy, but to claim it's an
> impossibility is just stupid.
> 
> Instead of harping how one should go to the Sound Science forum, why don't you start reading.
> ...



On the positive side, at least the forum has a very convenient function for ignoring users who are not, in your view, contributing anything useful.


----------



## Degru

Anybody know a good EU compatible power brick to source for an SRM-212? I'm shipping one to a friend in Israel and this would be easier and cheaper to ship than buying 240->120V then 120V->100V stepdown. I forgot what the correct size was, currently looking at getting an iFi iPower just in case since I'm also worried about noise that any random chinese brick might have. Plus I can actually test it before sending since it works with both voltages.


----------



## AudioThief

paradoxper said:


> I don't think anyone who has experienced a breadth of gear over a long period of exposure would argue sound differentiation is easy, but to claim it's an
> impossibility is just stupid.
> 
> Instead of harping how one should go to the Sound Science forum, why don't you start reading.
> ...



I remember reading that some time back, but I pulled it up again since you referenced it. I guess you're talking about this section:

"Objectivists will claim blind testing removes biases, but I think you just trade one set of biases for another. For example, most folks experience significant anxiety when faced with the small differences during blind tests—a lot of self-doubt can apear in the listener's mind, which leads to confusion and indecision. Also, when a listener begins to believe they've identified one of the selections, they then begin to superimpose a bias on that selection. The only way to combat these issues, it seems to me, is long experience with the technique of blind testing—and even then it's very hard. "

This is the exact sort of rationalising I was doing myself back when I believed the audio journey is an infinite progression upwards towards perfection, slowly increasing each element of my rig until nirvana. I wouldn't face the facts. 

Anyways, Tyll says people are anxious and thus can't hear the difference. Look, if experienced listeners cannot identify the differences in a blind test, nevermind a double blind test, then for all intents and purposes, it isn't there! In the case of amps, unless poorly designed, which is NOT the case with Stax amps or Carbon, they will sound exactly the same, because they are operating properly, with sufficient power to give adequate listening levels. 

You say its stupid to claim its impossible - okay, why? Would it be stupid for me to claim its impossible to improve my rigs fidelity by making sure I have an overhauled electricity system in my house so it is properly powered? I mean scientifically speaking, both of these cases are stupid, but to an audiophile, they seemingly makes equally sense.

The funny thing here is that I'm not here to discuss whether or not amps can or cannot make a difference - its the laughable claim that 007 or 009 "needs" third party amps to "come alive". Its just laughable. You could have people claim you must have a Mark Levinson streamer to make the HD800 really shine, anything else just won't cut it - nobody would stand for that kind of bs, not even here. But somehow, thats completely unchallanged when it comes to Stax amps.


----------



## protoss

Speaking on stax amps. 

I recently listen to the *Stax D50*. And it was sublime. Truly a nice piece of gear.

I highly recommend people to check it out. And for new comers this can be a excellent start. It's a dac/amp combo. 

Protoss recommends


----------



## Tugbars

There is a story which I've heard a while ago. Tyll was preparing for his youtube video where he shared his impressions on different electrostatic amplifiers. He actually couldn't find much difference between amps at first. He called someone who is expert at amp making and asked what he should look for to see differences in amps. Expert said  "just turn the volume up". He was able to finish his impressions video thanks to this suggestion. : ) I'm not sure how true this story is. However, this is the case with amps most of the time.


----------



## paradoxper (May 7, 2020)

AudioThief said:


> I remember reading that some time back, but I pulled it up again since you referenced it. I guess you're talking about this section:
> 
> "Objectivists will claim blind testing removes biases, but I think you just trade one set of biases for another. For example, most folks experience significant anxiety when faced with the small differences during blind tests—a lot of self-doubt can apear in the listener's mind, which leads to confusion and indecision. Also, when a listener begins to believe they've identified one of the selections, they then begin to superimpose a bias on that selection. The only way to combat these issues, it seems to me, is long experience with the technique of blind testing—and even then it's very hard. "
> 
> ...


I'm referencing the entire Big Sound experience. That's the start of explaining minute variables which should at the very least be of consideration.
As a whole, the Big Sound illuminates the difficulties of such testing, but also shows demonstrable validation a listener can pass a blind-test.

As said, it's not easy but possible, therefore, yes, your assertion remains stupid.

You claim you aren't here to discuss whether or not amps can or cannot make a difference -- yet your below quote is contradictory.

First off, this isn't an argument that makes sense. Ask yourself, if it was for profit, as most companies are, would you then sway towards the sound difference not being there? There are many reasons why KG and Spritzer would want to make and sell their amps. They find it rewarding, they find it fun, they like the positive feedback the community gives them and so on. Does that mean there is actually a change in sound quality? *No. Go to the sound science forum, or read somewhere on the internet about how amplifiers work, psychoacoustics, why it simply cannot be that these amplifiers alter the sound of either the 009 or 007 above the quality you get from the other stax amps.* And I'd be very surprised if you could find either one of them, anywhere on the internet, make a statement about their amp flat out sounding better than the Stax amps. They can talk all day about being better designed, have better parts, be more optimal and so on and so forth, but sound? I doubt it. Because both of them understand that when their reviewers starts talking about how it made their headphone come to life with bigger soundstage, blacker background, more detailed and so on - its just in their heads, not the actual sound.


I'm not sure what context "needs a third party amp to come alive" apply. Either every "competent" amp sounds the same or not, right (perhaps putting words into your mouth.)
But this topic seems to be headed into convoluted territory.

Case in point: *You could have people claim you must have a Mark Levinson streamer to make the HD800 really shine, anything else just won't cut it - nobody would stand for that kind of bs, not even here. But somehow, thats completely unchallanged when it comes to Stax amps.*

Of course there are endless camps whom believe the HD800 necessitates x to sound the best. The same for the HE-6 and so on.

I think the basis of your thinking is nobody in those camps have ever employed rigorous double-blind testing to validate such claims.

And in which case, the entire topic of discussion in direct context better belongs only in the Sound Science forum.

Still though, I disagree with your absolutes on audio truth as "evidence" I provided (or just small scale example.)

I don't see this going anywhere except in circles.


----------



## protoss

Lol you always have to be brutal huh Mr. Hypocrite.


----------



## paradoxper

protoss said:


> Lol you always have to be brutal huh Mr. Hypocrite.


Please advise what soft spoken words you'd rather I use.


----------



## protoss

Meh...


----------



## walakalulu

AudioThief suggests that he points out that different non Stax amps cannot make a significant improvement to sq in order to enlighten the uninitiated.
I would urge any newbie to Stax to make their own comparisons rather than rely on subjective opinions from others. If you hear no difference then that’s great.
Unfortunately for me after a year of listening to Stax amps my curiosity was piqued and I tried a couple of KG designs. I reckon if you hear no difference then you must have rocks for ears but the upside would be a considerable saving perhaps.


----------



## Tarttett (May 7, 2020)

Degru said:


> Anybody know a good EU compatible power brick to source for an SRM-212? I'm shipping one to a friend in Israel and this would be easier and cheaper to ship than buying 240->120V then 120V->100V stepdown. I forgot what the correct size was, currently looking at getting an iFi iPower just in case since I'm also worried about noise that any random chinese brick might have. Plus I can actually test it before sending since it works with both voltages.


What do you mean when you ask about the "size"?


----------



## Degru

Tarttett said:


> What do you mean when you ask about the "size"?


Dimensions of the barrel plug. Also need to make sure it has the correct polarity.


----------



## Tarttett

I am not sure about the barrel dimensions, but the iPower does come with a polarity inverter adaptor.


----------



## AudioThief

paradoxper said:


> [1]I'm referencing the entire Big Sound experience. That's the start of explaining minute variables which should at the very least be of consideration.
> As a whole, the Big Sound illuminates the difficulties of such testing, but also shows demonstrable validation a listener can pass a blind-test.
> 
> [2]As said, it's not easy but possible, therefore, yes, your assertion remains stupid.
> ...



[1]Where could the listener correctly pick out differences in amps? There is vast amount of evidence to the contrary with way more rigorous testing methods. Either way, the difference between so similar amps as the stax amps and carbon is even less likely to be audible than any other combination of regular amps. 

[2] Its not easy but not impossible to hear the differences between different power supplies either. So its equally as likely to you, yes or no?

[3] My apologies, I misspoke. What I meant was that my goal behind this discussion isn't to argue about amps, but rather to argue about the specific amps in question. Of course to argue my points throughout the debate, the topic of differences between amps will come up since its so closely related to the topic. And yes, every competent amp will sound the same because their job is to simply amplify the signal and not distort it. It cannot change the sound of the headphones unless its doing something wrong. Stax amps and Carbon amps aren't doing anything wrong with the signal, so they sound the same.

[4] The consensus in the audiophile community is that the HD800 is "amp picky", without any actual reason for it, nor any characteristics in amp specifications that makes them sound better or worse. Just that generally, you need a costly amp to make them sing. Sounds familiar to other types of audiophoolery. Its similar to the Stax-situation, except with the HD800 you can kindof buy any old amp and say it works wonderfully, and some might disagree, others will agree. While when it comes to Stax, because of the stax mafia influence, its literally "you MUST spend the money for a carbon, or you're leaving sound on the table!". 

[5] The basis of my thinking is that it makes zero sense in terms of how the physics behind of work, we know for a fact that placebo and biases plays a much larger role in high end audio equipment than the actual difference in sound, and in the end, we have a large body of blind testing a large array of audiophile equipment proving the case.

[6] There is a reason why I'm not just laying out a large list of proof for why the Carbon cannot possibly sound better than a 353x, and why the difference in sound is all in your head - sound science is prohibited outside the dedicated sub forum. Therefore the discussion is more philosophical or argumentative or whatever you wanna call it, instead of rigorously scientific. This topic is dangerously close to being prohibited material, however I think its so bad and egregious in the case of amps for stax headphones that I think it would be crazy if it were to be disallowed to talk about how ridiculous the sentiment that only the Carbon makes the 009 or 007 really tick.

[7]Most discussions do. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have them. Because there are readers out there who might not even type a reply, but have great use of this exact disussion. Maybe they'll go and do further research on the way amplifiers work and save themselves some money.




walakalulu said:


> AudioThief suggests that he points out that different non Stax amps cannot make a significant improvement to sq in order to enlighten the uninitiated.
> I would urge any newbie to Stax to make their own comparisons rather than rely on subjective opinions from others. If you hear no difference then that’s great.
> Unfortunately for me after a year of listening to Stax amps my curiosity was piqued and I tried a couple of KG designs. I reckon if you hear no difference then you must have rocks for ears but the upside would be a considerable saving perhaps.



There are multiple thing wrong with this. First of all, most people do not have access to this built-to-order amplifier from Iceland unless they cash out for it. Further, sighted testing is a bad, bad way of figuring out if the difference is there or not. I would make the same statement about my Schiit Eitr, my Gustard X20 pro, my upgraded cables - until one day I realized hey, is the sound ACTUALLY different, or is my mind playing tricks on me? When I managed to actually be honest with myself, listen to people with actual technical knowledge, realizing that the DAC couldn't in any possible way have the impact I honestly thought it did (and same with usb to coax converter, cables and so on), I could sell it all off, and have equally good sound with a cheaper setup, focusing on what mattered.


----------



## ired

@Degru 

The SRM-212 uses a 12 VDC, 400 ma supply with negative polarity i.e. the center pin in negative and the outer barrel is positive. 
You can and should use a larger current supply if you can. A 3A or 1A supply will likely perform better.
I don't know the plug dimensions but it would almost certainly be 5.5 x 2.1 mm, the same as the SRM-252A.


----------



## 526731 (May 10, 2020)

Has anyone come across any DIY or proper retail male Stax connectors? And if so, care to link please?
Am looking for something qualitative, gold-plated, etc.; so for example, Moon Audio's "offerings" do not apply.

* and yes, i could butcher an extension cable and use its existing one, but no, that wasn't the question 

Edit: Was..am.. hoping to avoid the 'custom' part of this, but if all else fails, yes, am aware it can be made from scratch nowadays (3D printing magics!). I've already asked someone about this, i remember them from head-case too. Ultimately, the goal is something like a Transparent cable, only for Stax electrets ^^


----------



## ired

Aenra said:


> Has anyone come across any DIY or proper retail male Stax connectors? And if so, care to link please?
> Am looking for something qualitative, gold-plated, etc.; so for example, Moon Audio's "offerings" do not apply.



I don't believe so. If there are good sources for such, they are well hidden from routine searches.
For good quality parts you're probably going to have to find a local 3D printer or machinist.

For ready sources, not much other than Moon Audio, _et al _for the raw male plug. Which you could then put inside a Neutrik XLR type housing and/or wrap in heat shrink. The problem as you imply is that these all seem to be based on the ill-fitting Amphencol/WMI plugs. They work but the pin spacing is slightly off. So they don't give the perception of quality and in the long term might damage the mating socket.

A few people like Kevin Gilmore made limited runs of proper plugs machined from nylon/teflon and gold pins salvaged from Neutrik XLR plugs. And someone else had 3D printed some. But I haven't seen well made plugs on offer for some time.


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## 526731 (May 10, 2020)

@ired just wanted to enquire in case i was missing something, happens often when it has to do with the internet 
If i don't hear back from the forum member i've PMed, i will employ someone to design it in CAD for me, i have the exact dimensions.

Just to continue the conversation, a bit of expanding:
In terms of female sockets, nothing limited about them; you can still purchase as many as you please from a certain online store we all know about in this thread, albeit overpriced as hell, or from an Esthonian ebay seller at much a saner pricing.
* Have purchased from him myself and can assure you he's not only legit, but actually conscientious.
The overpriced version's the white teflon one you may have been talking about, and definitely the one found in certain non-STAX amps.

As to the Amphenols, it's a 'complaint' i've come across a number of times, but in reality, they were never meant for what some of us intended them for; the term 'DIN', overly used in the US even when it shouldn't be is a good indicator as to that
More trivia, but unless i'm mistaken the particular socket was originally produced by another company and for military grade components; Amphenol simply acquired their tooling later on and for some period continued the plug's production.


----------



## ired

Aenra said:


> @ired just wanted to enquire in case i was missing something, happens often when it has to do with the internet
> If i don't hear back from the forum member i've PMed, i will employ someone to design it in CAD for me, i have the exact dimensions.
> 
> Just to continue the conversation, a bit of expanding:
> ...



The devil is always in the details but my understanding is pretty much what you outlined. And one can only hope that someone on the forum might know of a better source for good quality parts.

"DIN" is often misused in America to label almost anything metric or "foreign". Often inappropriately as DIN is a proper standards organization. There is, as you were elaborating, nothing wrong with the Amphenol connectors other than they were not intended to be used for Stax equipment. They just happen to be a close match that many employ as the OEM part is not available.

Amphenol is a large American multinational that has swallowed any number of military equipment manufacturers. I believe that the connector in question appears to be a miniature XLR microphone connector that has been around in America since at least the 1950's. My understanding is that the Amphenol tooling for this connector series was purchased by Wire Pro Inc, who in turn was purchased by Cooper Interconnect, now a division of Eaton. Someone else can fill in the details if this is incorrect. This is just incidental history that I gleaned along the way, I surely didn't look into it in any depth.

So yes the Ampenol/WPI connector is a workaround. Moon audio is a convenient source, sometimes seen cheaper on Ebay. A _lot_ cheaper if you look for a surplus dealer. I've seen people machine proper connectors for some short-run DIY or boutique amps. But I am pretty sure that Kevin machined his own. And at least two forum members were said to have 3D printed plugs.







This is one of the plugs that Kevin made (headcase thread). 
And one that another headcase member 3D printed here. Dimensions for machining here or here.


----------



## VandyMan

AudioThief said:


> There is zero chance anyone can distinguish the amps in blind testing, and everyone knows that here. I can promise you that every single one of the mafia heads have no confidence in any sort of rigorous testing. One amp isn't more "detailed" than another, or make a headphone sound warm or cold. And it definitely doesn't work like "the more you pay for the amp the better it is". You could give someone literally owning a Carbon, put a 353x inside a Carbon chassis and show it to him, and he wouldn't be able to tell it apart from his own. Guaranteed.



I've listened to the Carbon and the BHSE side by side. While they were very similar overall, there were *frequency response* differences that were absolutely clear. For example, on one Muddy Waters song, there was a bass note that was really loud with the Carbon and nearly silent on the BHSE. I felt the BHSE was better based on more subtle high-frequency difference.

I also used to own a modded Stax 727 ii. I used my 009s with it for a year and was very happy. However, when I got my BHSE, I was able to compare them and found the mid-range in the 727 to be hard. Again, side by side, the differences were easily hearable.

And, for what it is worth, I don't believe in high-end cables and I think DAC differences and widely exaggerated.


----------



## 526731 (May 12, 2020)

@ired apologies for the belated reply, am a single-threaded type of person.. partly some sales i'm trying to do, partly some missus-induced headaches, well, there you go 

Already had the dimensions, but i do appreciate your taking the time to link them, thank you! Chinsetta was actually kind enough to write back to me, eventually sent me his 3D model via email, so am all good as it turns out ^^
(thank you again Chinsetta)

Will take time and money, not the first time i try (and fail) to make a Transparent clone, i know i can't; or rather, not as well as they used to. But judging by past experiences, if i can get the cables as good as i used to, they'd still be way better than STAX's. Just.. bit of trial and error, lol. My trusty Tektronix stands ready.

As to the specifics, i think you're spot on. And is actually how i came to 'learn' about Amphenol myself, buying old US army equipment only so as to 'salvage' the JANs, just kept some plugs along the way as well; among _other_ things 
I've crates and crates of JANs; and original unused Matsushitas (including some that were commissioned by Luxman, got their brand name on them); and Raytheons, Telefunkens (W. Germany), etc. etc. They sit smug and comfy in a humidity-regulated storage room, right next to my other crates, lol, yeah.. it's a disease ^^
* this is a hobby for older people indeed.

I've stories to tell about DINs and what customers did with them, but it's a small country and i fear someone will recognise themselves in my description.. yes, a very.. confusing practice that eventually exceeded the strictly geographical, but let's leave it at that!


----------



## sonics

AudioThief said:


> There is zero chance anyone can distinguish the amps in blind testing, and everyone knows that here.



I tell you I will distinguish my KGSSHV and BHSE amps correctly every time in blind testing. The bass has clear audible difference in quantity that is easy to spot. Other than that, soundstage and treble is a bit different. However, these latter qualities I could probably not identify blinded.

Now, in theory, these amps should sound the same, right? To me this is not the case, so which of these amps adds coloration deliberately or by design?


----------



## protoss

Is it really fair to do a TUBE flavor tube amps (BHSE) vs a solid state (Cabon) amps?

My answer is no its not a fair comparison.


----------



## thomaskong78 (May 12, 2020)

VandyMan said:


> I've listened to the Carbon and the BHSE side by side. While they were very similar overall, there were *frequency response* differences that were absolutely clear. For example, on one Muddy Waters song, there was a bass note that was really loud with the Carbon and nearly silent on the BHSE. I felt the BHSE was better based on more subtle high-frequency difference.
> 
> I also used to own a modded Stax 727 ii. I used my 009s with it for a year and was very happy. However, when I got my BHSE, I was able to compare them and found the mid-range in the 727 to be hard. Again, side by side, the differences were easily hearable.
> 
> And, for what it is worth, I don't believe in high-end cables and I think DAC differences and widely exaggerated.


I have Freya tube pre in front of Kgsshv Carbon


protoss said:


> Is it really fair to do a TUBE flavor tube amps (BHSE) vs a solid state (Cabon) amps?
> 
> My answer is no its not a fair comparison.


I have Freya tube pre in front of Kgsshv Carbon to drive 009s with excellent result.

It give tube flavor but also with full and deep bass.


----------



## AudioThief

sonics said:


> I tell you I will distinguish my KGSSHV and BHSE amps correctly every time in blind testing. The bass has clear audible difference in quantity that is easy to spot. Other than that, soundstage and treble is a bit different. However, these latter qualities I could probably not identify blinded.
> 
> Now, in theory, these amps should sound the same, right? To me this is not the case, so which of these amps adds coloration deliberately or by design?



As Protoss said, tube vs SS is a bit different, as tube amps have significanly higher distortion figures than SS. Anyways any talk of blind testing we have to go into the sound science forum to have. So I apologize for derailing the thread with all this talk about the amps. I've said my peace on the topic, and any further discussion we can have in the sound science forums.


----------



## AceMew

my sr 007 arrived today and I still haven’t found an amp for them here in the EU after nearly 2 weeks of searching


----------



## MightBeAlon

I picked up a pair of STAX SR-40 electret headphones a few years ago out of curiosity, and I couldn't get the left channel working. Is it more likely that the driver has lost it's charge, or that the adapter/energiser has gone bad?






(pic not mine, but this is the right model)


----------



## urs

AceMew,
Do you know this site - *Audio Markt* ?              
https://www.audio-markt.de/market/s...field_manufacturer_id=2094&filter_submitted=1

Or the German dealer *Innexon ?*
https://www.inexxon.com/online-shop/stax-gebrauchtgeräte-used-devices/

Regards
Urs


----------



## AceMew

urs said:


> AceMew,
> Do you know this site - *Audio Markt* ?
> https://www.audio-markt.de/market/s...field_manufacturer_id=2094&filter_submitted=1
> 
> ...


I've been checking hifi shark and eBay every day, first link doesn't have anything, 2nd link only old and overpriced amps


----------



## Tugbars

https://hifi-freaks.dk/ @AceMew


----------



## AceMew

Tugbars said:


> https://hifi-freaks.dk/ @AceMew


Thanks but I’m looking for a used one


----------



## urs

??
https://www.audio-markt.de/market/stax-stax-srm-323s-makellos!-5093564797

Urs


----------



## AceMew

urs said:


> ??
> https://www.audio-markt.de/market/stax-stax-srm-323s-makellos!-5093564797
> 
> Urs


When I wrote stax srm in the search bar nothing came up, thanks


----------



## ired (May 14, 2020)

nlovell said:


> Is it more likely that the driver has lost it's charge, or that the adapter/energiser has gone bad?



It's more likely to be a cable or cable connection problem. But that doesn't mean that energizers never fail. Try putting some gentle pressure on the cable especially where it enters the phones or near the plug. A better test would be borrowing another energizer or having someone temporarily swap the channels (soldering @ the socket) or see what is there with a scope.


----------



## Degru

Update on stax power supplies.. don't have my second 212 yet but tried with 252. Bought this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LBX8D58

It works, and seems to make the sound a little warmer and punchier. However, there is a buzzing due to ground issue or something that the stock power supply does not have. I *might* also be hearing less detail but it could also just be because of the extra punch. Looks like I am going to have to buy the expensive ifi ipower after all.


----------



## jsts

Folks, I replaced all the electrolytic capacitors in my SRM-600.

I can't say for sure if this has happened before, but this (photo) capacitor at 10V 4700uF is heating up. Not very much, around 55C. The headphones aren't plugged in.






Can you tell me if this capacitor is in normal operation? Does it have to warm up?


----------



## ired

jsts said:


> Can you tell me if this capacitor is in normal operation? Does it have to warm up?



That's suspect. Electrolytic caps can dissipate significant heat but they usually run cooler than that. The cap is rated to operate up to 105C, so that temperature by itself isn't going to cause a failure. But why is it so hot? It _may_ be normal for this amp, hard to say without a schematic and scope waveform.

It would be unusual to design an amp to run this way. A typical design goal might be 25 - 35C typical @ full load and 65C absolute max @ full load and 40C room temperature. Cooler is better and greatly extends component lifetime. If you are measuring a surface temperature of 55C with the cover off, then the core temp is probably 65C. And possibly 70 - 80C with the amp buttoned up.

Possibly a defective cap or a damaged cap e.g. if it got too hot while soldering. Or there might be another fault in the amp stressing the cap. There isn't enough information to really know. In your place, I'd at least try replacing the cap with another one and see if the operating temperature goes down. And perhaps try to get another SRM-600 owner in the forum to see if this cap in their amp also runs hot?


----------



## jsts

My SRM-600 for 230V voltage.

First, I supplied a cheap Jamicon TKR472M1AJ26 capacitor. It was heating up.Then I decided to place EEUFR1A472L Panasonic Low ESR capacitor.  However, it's warming up, too.

Since the SRM-600 is very similar to the T1, I suppose that's the highlighted part of the circuit.





I checked the diodes next to it - they're not broke.

Hmmmm....


----------



## ired

The Panasonic part is a good quality cap. I can only speculate that there is another fault in the amp.Or soldering exceeded 350C/3 seconds. 

Thanks for the schematic but an approximation is not sufficient to attribute the temperature to circuit design.


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## kevin gilmore (May 15, 2020)

pretty sure the original cap is 25v rated.

yep, the original caps are 470uf/25v

should be about 13VDC on the cap


----------



## jsts (May 15, 2020)

kevin gilmore said:


> pretty sure the original cap is 25v rated.
> 
> yep, the original caps are 470uf/25v
> 
> should be about 13VDC on the cap



The SRM-600 has the following electrolytic capacitors:






*4 pcs ELNA LAH 220uF 400V 25х45mm/10mm*
REPLACEMENT:
          TDK/EPCOS B43642 220uF 400V 25x35mm/10mm (B43642B9227M0) *<-- I replaced it with this one.*
          ELNA LAZ 470uF 400V 25x55mm/10mm (LAZ S38 105C = LAZ-400V471S38)
          Nichicon LGR 220uF 400V 25x50mm/10mm (LGR2G221MELA50)
          Rubycon VXH 220uF 450V 25x35mm/10mm (450VXH220MEFCSN25X35)

*1 pcs ELNA RJ4 4700uF 10V 12.5x25mm/5.0mm* (NEED Rated current = 1780 & ESR = 0.11!)
REPLACEMENT:
          Panasonic 4700uF 10V 12.5x30mm/5.0mm (EEUFR1A472L) *<-- I replaced it with this one.*
          ELNA RJD 4700uF 10V 12.5x30mm/5.0mm (RJD I7 105C = RJD-10V472MJ7)
          Panasonic 4700uF 10V 12.5x35mm/5.0mm (EEUFM1A472L)

*2 pcs SANYO 470uF 35V 10х16mm/5.0mm (S.E.8N Black 85C 35ME470HC)*
REPLACEMENT:
          TDK/EPCOS 470uF 35V 10х20mm/5.0mm (B41888C7477M000) (ORANGE COLOR!) *<-- I replaced it with this one.*
          ELNA RJD 470(560)uF 35V 10х20mm/5.0mm (RJM 35V H5 105C)
          Panasonic 470uF 35V 10х16mm/5.0mm (EEUHD1V471)
          Panasonic 680uF 35V 10х16mm/5.0mm (EEUHD1V681)

*2 pcs ELNA RC3 47uF 16V 6.3x5.0mm/2.5mm (RC3 F0 Blue 85C = RC3-16V470MF0)*
REPLACEMENT:
          HITANO E5R 47uF 25V 105° 6.3x5.0mm/2.5mm *<-- I replaced it with this one.*
          ELNA R3S 47uF 16V 6.3x5.0mm/2.5mm (R3S F0 Black 105C = R3S-16V470MF0)
          Nichicon UTT 47uF 16V 6.3x7.0mm/2.5mm (UTT1C470MDD1TP)

*2 pcs ELNA RC3 10uF 50V 6.3x5.0mm/2.5mm (RC3 F0 Blue 85C = RC3-50V100MF0)*
REPLACEMENT:
          ELZET 22uF 50V 105° 6.3x5.0mm/2.5mm (CD50H) *<-- I replaced it with this one.*
          ELNA R3S 10uF 50V 6.3x5.0mm/2.5mm (R3S F0 Black 105C = R3S-50V100MF0)


Yes, T1 needs 2 pcs of 470uF/25V, but the SRM-600 uses one 4700uF/10V capacitor. On the cap ~7V.


----------



## ired

Any other caps running warm/hot? Can you double check the original part values against the replacements? 
As you said two replacements for the 4700uF/10V running hot, could be excessive ripple current out of the supply.


----------



## urs

@AceMew,

The "Filtering" in AudioMarkt can be tricky  - there are even more STAX AMPS..
Select *STAX* in Manufacterer - or Hersteller; you could fine tune further under Product category

https://www.audio-markt.de/en/marke...field_manufacturer_id=2094&filter_submitted=1

Regards
Urs


----------



## astrostar59

jsts said:


> The SRM-600 has the following electrolytic capacitors:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, that is going to be super fiddly getting those caps off.


----------



## jsts

ired said:


> Any other caps running warm/hot? Can you double check the original part values against the replacements?
> As you said two replacements for the 4700uF/10V running hot, could be excessive ripple current out of the supply.




Any other caps running cold. Only 4700uF/10V running warm.

I double-checked all capacitors parameters and they match (or exceed) the original:

*Original:*
ELNA LAH400V221MS36 220uF 400V 25х45mm/10mm *<---* Rated ripple current (RRC Arms) = 0.87
*Replacement:*
TDK/EPCOS B43642B9227M0 220uF 400V 25x35mm/10mm *<---* RRC = 1.03 & ESR at 100 Hz = 460 & Impedance = 680 

*Original:
ELNA RJ4 4700uF 10V* 12.5x25mm/5.0mm *<--- RRC = 1250 & ESR = 0.11
Replacement:
Panasonic EEUFR1A472L 4700uF 10V* 12.5x30mm/5.0mm *<--- RRC = 3630 & Impedance = 0.013

Original:*
SANYO 35ME470HC 470uF 35V 10х16mm/5.0mm (S.E.8N Black 85°C Standard series) *<---* RRC = 585
*Replacement:*
TDK/EPCOS B41888C7477M000 470uF 35V 10х20mm/5.0mm (B41888C7477M000) *<---* RRC = 1500 & ESR at 10 kHz = 0.050 & Impedance = 0.046 

*Original:*
ELNA RC3-16V470MF0 47uF 16V 85°C 6.3x5.0mm/2.5mm (RC3 F0 Blue 85°C) *<---* RRC at 85°C = 70
*Replacement:*
HITANO E5R 47uF 25V 105°C 6.3x5.0mm/2.5mm *<---* RRC at 105°C = 60

*Original:*
ELNA RC3-50V100MF0 10uF 50V 85°C 6.3x5.0mm/2.5mm (RC3 F0 Blue 85°C) *<---* RRC at 85°C = 40
*Replacement:*
ELZET CD50H 22uF 50V 105°C 6.3x5.0mm/2.5mm *<---* RRC at 105°C = 40


Before the replacement, I did not check if the 4700uF/10V had been warmed. This could be his normal operating condition.

It is simply not clear to me which components of the circuit can affect it: from the transformer comes two BLU-wires at 6.3V AC current, then there are two diodes in parallel converting to DC current, and then there is a 4700uF/10V capacitor, which receives these 6.3VDC. There is simply nothing to break.


----------



## ired

jsts said:


> Only 4700uF/10V running warm.
> 
> I double-checked all capacitors parameters and they match (or exceed) the original



Thanks for double checking. I wouldn't be too quick to trust the T1 schematic, a few changes would render it less than useful for troubleshooting. If it was in front of me, a scope and curve tracer will reveal most issues. Sometimes you need to refer to the actual schematic (if available) or reverse engineer the schematic - trace and draw out how components are actually connected. Otherwise you just end up chasing ghosts.

The usual causes of a cap running hot would be damage e.g. over voltage, reverse polarity in circuit or perhaps excessive heat while soldering. Or another circuit fault e.g. is there unexpected high frequency ripple there? You tried two different replacement caps and checked the adjacent diodes. It would appear that the most likely causes at this point are excessive ripple or the circuit was designed to run hot like that.

I don't know what else to suggest without a scope or accurate schematic. As no other caps are running hot, you could settle for enjoying your music for now and try to reach out to other SRM-600 owners to see if their caps also run hot?


----------



## jsts

ired said:


> As no other caps are running hot, you could settle for enjoying your music for now and try to reach out to other SRM-600 owners to see if their caps also run hot?



Unfortunately, this part of the amplifier circuits I have not.

I'll try to look for other owners.

Thank!


----------



## newaudio46

After a year of deciding what energiser I want to get, I have probably decided on SRM-007tA but modified by mjolnir-audio.

This is an extract from the site.

“This is the current day Stax SRM-007tA (same amp as the 007tII which is sold outside of Japan) which I’ve updated.  First step was to remove most of the output stage, change the tubes to 6S4A and then install a CCS for each of the tubes.  This makes the amp a mini KGST while on the outside it looks completely stock.  In terms of performance this is a huge step up and totally transforms the amplifier, making it easily surpass the new SRM-700t”

What are people’s opinions?


----------



## jsts

newaudio46 said:


> What are people’s opinions?



My opinion is extremely positive. If you want to keep the visual aspect of Stax's originality - a strong recommendation. The sounds are noticeably different. It was after I heard the difference that I decided to upgrade my amplifier myself to the CCS-mod.


----------



## newaudio46

I’m about 90% certain I will get it.
I just need to get the 007s mk1 or2 is the next choice and lastly a new dac


----------



## John_M

I did something very stupid and dropped my SR-009 headphones... But luckily it doesn't seem to have had any effect on sound. Can anyone reassure me that if there's no audible effect (or visible damage) I won't have damaged them in some other way (loosening some internal component or anything like that?)


----------



## TheMiddleSky

John_M said:


> I did something very stupid and dropped my SR-009 headphones... But luckily it doesn't seem to have had any effect on sound. Can anyone reassure me that if there's no audible effect (or visible damage) I won't have damaged them in some other way (loosening some internal component or anything like that?)



Check with mono recording sound for balance left right? (easily found in youtube)


----------



## John_M

I've listened to a number of sound tests on Youtube and elsewhere. I really can't hear any imbalance or anything wrong (sometimes you start to doubt yourself as to whether there might be some incredibly subtle difference... but there's definitely nothing obvious).

Idiotic of me very soon after buying them.... but I may have been lucky. I am in the UK and not sure who would service Stax headphones in the country.


----------



## AceMew

John_M said:


> I've listened to a number of sound tests on Youtube and elsewhere. I really can't hear any imbalance or anything wrong (sometimes you start to doubt yourself as to whether there might be some incredibly subtle difference... but there's definitely nothing obvious).
> 
> Idiotic of me very soon after buying them.... but I may have been lucky. I am in the UK and not sure who would service Stax headphones in the country.


The official dealer maybe? 
http://www.symmetry-systems.co.uk/


----------



## John_M

Are you suggesting I should get them checked out?

Broadly, does anyone have the technical knowledge to say... if there is no imbalance or other effect on the sound that I can hear, does this mean they are 100% OK?


----------



## tumpux

It’s just your doubt..
Let it go.


----------



## DaddyWhale

tumpux said:


> It’s just your doubt..
> Let it go.


I think @John_M is asking about other people's experience in similar situations. Nothing wrong with that. Added to the fact that they are so expensive and newly purchased, I understand his anxiety. One wants to get the best out of what some would consider "the best"


----------



## John_M

Thanks both. I'm actually quite reassured by Turnpux's comment. Would be interested if anyone else has dropped any expensive electrostats! You think in your head about thin electrostatic membranes and how easy they might be to damage...


----------



## ired

You should be fine. Not to say that you weren't lucky, don't try for a repeat performance. But if something was to break it would most likely have done so on impact. It would take significant flexing of the housing to damage the membrane. You have no channel imbalance, let it go and enjoy your phones.


----------



## bearFNF

John_M said:


> Thanks both. I'm actually quite reassured by Turnpux's comment. Would be interested if anyone else has dropped any expensive electrostats! You think in your head about thin electrostatic membranes and how easy they might be to damage...


I have dropped my 009 once and stepped on the cord when getting up out of my chair. No damage done.

Worse yet, my "eX" sromped on my Lambda NB cracking the gimbal on one earspeaker. Can still wear them as the gimbal was just slightly bent. They still sound just fine 20+ years later.


----------



## John_M

Thank you - this is reassuring to hear. There have been a few posts on possible channel imbalance... your mind starts playing tricks on you and you wonder if there is some subtle imbalance.... but definitely nothing at all obvious.


----------



## newaudio46

Does anyone know how to identify a 007mk2.9?


----------



## Tugbars

Nobody knows for sure. What we know is that since 3 years all models are mk 2.9. From my experience mk 2.5 pads are deeper.


----------



## PJJK

Finished the mods on my 006T; plugged it in and let it run for about two hours without phones plugged in and then another two hours listening to it before switching it off. Restarted it today only to find the right channel has gone missing. I checked the CCS and its fine. However, it appears that resistor R48 on the main board may have gone open circuit, but perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree. I've Googled for a schematic without success, so I'm hoping someone here has one or knows the specs for R48. Any help will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## PJJK

PJJK said:


> Finished the mods on my 006T; plugged it in and let it run for about two hours without phones plugged in and then another two hours listening to it before switching it off. Restarted it today only to find the right channel has gone missing. I checked the CCS and its fine. However, it appears that resistor R48 on the main board may have gone open circuit, but perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree. I've Googled for a schematic without success, so I'm hoping someone here has one or knows the specs for R48. Any help will be greatly appreciated.


Amendment, problem is not with R48.


----------



## Degru

Interesting, bought a second SR202 for a friend and this one came with replaced pads; the EP234BL pads that are currently sold on the stax store. These are actually considerably different from the original 202 pads that are on my unit. They are way softer and form a much better seal (which means waay better bass) but also change the overall presentation and make it less aggressive, more in line with how my 404 sounds. Not as open sparkly soundstage-y as og pads, but overall an improvement in coherency and especially bass. 

Thought I'd share if anyone is looking at getting those pads for an older lambda..


----------



## Mach3

If you want bass, get the 3D printed adaptor and add the vespa angled pads comfort to die for.


----------



## Degru

Mach3 said:


> If you want bass, get the 3D printed adaptor and add the vespa angled pads comfort to die for.


Non OEM pads on stax seems like a recipe for disaster ..


----------



## Armored Soul

How do the SR-5 compare to any of the HD6xx series (HD6xx, HD600, HD650 etc) compare?


----------



## mulveling

John_M said:


> I did something very stupid and dropped my SR-009 headphones... But luckily it doesn't seem to have had any effect on sound. Can anyone reassure me that if there's no audible effect (or visible damage) I won't have damaged them in some other way (loosening some internal component or anything like that?)


Some people recommend whacking the cups/drivers as a potential *cure* for a Stax imbalance, lol.
I've heard a few significant imbalances over the years - an old L3000, RS-2, my first pair of 009S from the 1st shipping batch. You'll know when it occurs - it's not at all subtle. This is when the imbalance exceeds around 1.5 - 2 dB (sometimes a lot more). Believe me I've spent countless hours over years obsessing over "is there a slight imbalance here?" with various headphones. Mostly - nope, and you'll know for sure when you have a problem. It's not worth the heartache in the meantime.


----------



## Degru (May 29, 2020)

(Trans)portable stax is a go! Bought a TalentCell 12v battery and wired up a janky little center negative interconnect for it, and the thing works! Zero noise from it, and since the battery can do up to 3A it improves the sound quite a bit too over the 400mA power brick. It's a 6Ah battery, so it should hopefully last a while. Probably gonna be using this around the house mostly, but I'm definitely gonna take it down to the coffee shop for the meme at least once when stuff reopens around here 

On a related note, I also discovered that my 252 pot has imbalance of about 2 volts on the output except for at max volume. What's a good pot to replace it?


----------



## robo24

newaudio46 said:


> Does anyone know how to identify a 007mk2.9?


I read recently that serial numbers starting with ZC3 are the latest for the past 3 years.


----------



## John_M (May 29, 2020)

mulveling said:


> Some people recommend whacking the cups/drivers as a potential *cure* for a Stax imbalance, lol.
> I've heard a few significant imbalances over the years - an old L3000, RS-2, my first pair of 009S from the 1st shipping batch. You'll know when it occurs - it's not at all subtle. This is when the imbalance exceeds around 1.5 - 2 dB (sometimes a lot more). Believe me I've spent countless hours over years obsessing over "is there a slight imbalance here?" with various headphones. Mostly - nope, and you'll know for sure when you have a problem. It's not worth the heartache in the meantime.



Thank everyone for the comments but now I'm pretty sure they do have a channel imbalance. Not sure if dropping them caused it or if it was there anyway. Mono sounds very slightly to the right of my head when they're on the right way round. I blind tested myself by shutting my eyes and twisting the headphones round, then testing myself on whether it sounded to the left or the right of my head. Unfortunately I was able to pick out which way round I had them on seven times out of seven, then decided it was a sure thing.  I'll have a look at that UK dealer someone referred to.

Edit: this may actually be the cable... trying it with another cable (by the way much cheaper) and I can't pick the imbalance any more - although it may be just lateness/ fatigue, will try again tomorrow...


----------



## afgmjkl

robo24 said:


> I read recently that serial numbers starting with ZC3 are the latest for the past 3 years.



SZ2 is 007A and SZ3 is 007mk2.


There is no way to identify post-2016 model.
I assume that serial numbers after 20XX are post-2016.


----------



## robo24

afgmjkl said:


> SZ2 is 007A and SZ3 is 007mk2.
> 
> 
> There is no way to identify post-2016 model.
> I assume that serial numbers after 20XX are post-2016.


Thanks, I read the same place that the numbers weren't useful because they weren't sequential. Who knows!


----------



## Tarttett

What is the best amplifier that has a normal bias outlet?


----------



## GarageBoy

The T1 series and some 006 had normal bias - I think you can get custom amps with normal bias too


----------



## ired

The T1 series and some SRM-006t & SRM-007t's had normal bias available. You can also find normal bias on some very good third-party amps. Or possibly have someone modify an amp to provide normal bias, not a difficult mod for someone who knows what they are doing.


----------



## astrostar59

Tarttett said:


> What is the best amplifier that has a normal bias outlet?


Have you contact Woo audio, they can help you I am sure.


----------



## Tarttett

What third-party amplifiers have a normal bias outlet?


----------



## ired

Mjölnir Audio in Iceland has several models with regular bias, expensive gear though.

A more economical option would be having an electronics tech modify a Stax amp to provide normal bias. This is just changing several resistor values so the costs should not be outrageous. If you have any interest in building your own there is an active DIY forum over at Head-Case. They have half a dozen or more amp builds with printed circuit layouts available some of which are truly TOTL designs. Sometimes you can also find a regular there willing to build an amp to order.


----------



## Tarttett

I was really wondering what off-the-shelf products there might have been. Have there been any from companies besides STAX?


----------



## ired

Mjölnir makes high quality gear, this is their KGSSHV amp with normal bias from their website. There is at least one other company whose name escapes me at the moment (try Google). A good start would be contacting Mjölnir (@spritzer here), he might be able to provide normal bias for their other models as well. Ask him if that customization is available.


----------



## PJJK

Resolved the issues I posted earlier. Safety resistor and CSS mods to my 006T + capacitor replacements finished and now I’m toying with the further mod involving 6S4A‘s. The lingering thought I have is what is/are the benefit/s to be derived from this and its extent. Any thoughts/advice would be very much appreciated. My knowledge of electronics is rudimentary at best, so just in case I go down this path, if there is anyone out there able to provide advice, or even better, a drawing or photo of the board mods for these it would also be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Tarttett

@astrostar59 Thank you. I am not sure why your post did not show until later.

@ired I think those are all pro bias. It is possible that he would modify one to normal bias if requested, but I do not see why someone would want an amplifier with only a normal bias socket.

In any case, I am not trying to buy an amplifier now. I was merely wondering what commercial products there have been.


----------



## Eich1eeF

PJJK said:


> Resolved the issues I posted earlier. Safety resistor and CSS mods to my 006T + capacitor replacements finished.


Glad to hear that you fixed your 006T. Could you please tell us what the problem was, how you found and fixed it, and what the proper specs for R48 are?


----------



## John_M

Just to temporarily resurrect the previous flame war on amps...

I did eventually buy the 353X and not one of the more powerful amps. The main reason for this was just space on the side table in my living room where I wanted to put it - and I want to preserve my hearing by not turning it up too loud. I'd still consider buying something more powerful in the future - maybe when the next Stax flagship comes out.

Simple question... I expect even the advocates of more powerful amps would agree that if you listen at very low volumes there wouldn't be an audible difference (?) I don't put my 353X any higher than 6 (out of 10) volume and 5 on louder tracks. My wife, who's done less listening than I have, will listen on a 4 (I wish I'd pushed my hearing less...)  Question is - can you say how hard you would need to push a 353X before it would be outperformed by an amp with more 'juice'? Would this point be reached at volume 6/10?


----------



## PJJK

Eich1eeF said:


> Glad to hear that you fixed your 006T. Could you please tell us what the problem was, how you found and fixed it, and what the proper specs for R48 are?


Thanks for having a look. The problem was me; used incorrect range on M.M. Should always start at maximum and work back. I didn't worry about recording R48 value after I measured it, but from memory it was 5mohm.


----------



## VRacer-111 (Jun 2, 2020)

John_M said:


> Just to temporarily resurrect the previous flame war on amps...
> 
> I did eventually buy the 353X and not one of the more powerful amps. The main reason for this was just space on the side table in my living room where I wanted to put it - and I want to preserve my hearing by not turning it up too loud. I'd still consider buying something more powerful in the future - maybe when the next Stax flagship comes out.
> 
> Simple question... I expect even the advocates of more powerful amps would agree that if you listen at very low volumes there wouldn't be an audible difference (?) I don't put my 353X any higher than 6 (out of 10) volume and 5 on louder tracks. My wife, who's done less listening than I have, will listen on a 4 (I wish I'd pushed my hearing less...)  Question is - can you say how hard you would need to push a 353X before it would be outperformed by an amp with more 'juice'? Would this point be reached at volume 6/10?



I had an SRM-323S (353X without the balanced connectors) and never went beyond 3, mainly around 2.5. This is with SR-L300. Going from the SRM-323S to a NAD C275BEE stereo amp with Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 transformer was a noticeable difference, mainly in the low end presence and an overall fuller, punchier sound. Immediately put SRM-323S up for sale after the comparison...


----------



## AudioThief

I got a good price on a used SRM 006t & SR-404. If anyone is interested in comparisons to other Stax headphones like the new lambdas or 007, I'll be happy to provide my subjective opinions.


----------



## afgmjkl (Jun 4, 2020)

I've modded SRM-007t for using 6S4A, but no sound from R channel.
Next I swapped 1 tube on right side, then I heard distorted sound from both side.
Offset measured -30V on both channel.

Is this likely the tube problem?

edit: Problem solved. I forgot to cut one wire on R side.


----------



## Armored Soul

I have now obtained both the SRD-X and SRD-X Pro. Sound wise, they're basically the same. Though I haven't done lengthy testing to really try to distinguish a difference. Build and design wise? Well they're actually rather different. The SRD-X has a mostly metal body and uses a screw to open and close the battery compartment. It also has a 6.5mm cable connected to the end of it. It also came with a different power brick. (Output 12v 200mA) The SRD-X was released in 1979. The SRD-X Pro on the other hand was made in 1986. The body is entirely made of plastic other than the RCA inputs at the back. The power brick included is also the same as the SRM-X Pro in the background. (12V 400mA) In the pictures, left is SRD-X, right is SRD-X Pro.










Just something that was interesting to me.


----------



## 526731 (Jun 3, 2020)

This is such a perverse forum 
Sure, you have "sponsors", so sure, given time enough the posters will come (by force of repetition, or force alone) to match the quality or approach of the content sponsored. Repetition and wear..
You add the trends of our time and that this forum does seem to gravitate towards the younger or less privileged, again sure, much of what one comes to read is to be expected really.

Nonetheless, seeing certain "audio" brands' equipment in the same pic with Stax products? Really hits me.
Everytime.

Not bashing anyone in specific here mind, just mentioning it as this is the upteenth time i've had this thought.
Also not bashing any single brand in specific, as within that certain category (heavy PR, expectations set a-priori, 'smart' marketing, cheap Chinese-made SMD crap, software alchemies to fool the ear because we cannot into the analogue, etc etc) lies a legion of brands. All of them, literally all of them, amazingly popular 'round here for somde reason!
(some of the local "heroes" too, they also push certain SMD-ridden devices; very constantly and very self-servingly. Even though they aren't 'sponsors' themselves incidentally, important this)
And i remain as shocked by all this now, as i was decades ago; as this not only carries on, it's in fact worsening and expanding, as a phenomenon.

So wholeheartedly, best intentions meant and i sincerely mean it, stop buying crap, stop buying altogether for a little bit.

Go to a many live concerts and listen. Listen to the viola, the contra, the cymbals, take note of how your ears get to define space when your eyes are closed and how whern they're open and you're looking at 'x' specific spot. Listen to how dramatically different an accoustic performance is from one that is not. Listen to how vocals travel inside a theatre, in open space, with or without instuments to accompany them.
Listen to how a synthesizer affects your perception of depth, figure out why. Listen to how real drums sound up close on a live Jazz quartet, pay attention to which sounds your brain perceives as travelling 'faster' to you than others.
That accursed "bass" of yours (yours figuratively), listen to how it sounds, when and _if _you can actually hear it, in reality.

See if maybe, just maybe, you have all this time been missing the point. If just maybe, you're listening to cheap, uninformed _interpretations_ of a musical piece, rather than the piece itself.
And if maybe, pre or non-SMD ridden sources, as cheap as 150ish euros a pop can with a bit of technical upgrading love sound more natural than anything you've thus far owned.

Most of you folks here don't utilise..capitalise..make worth.. of half of what your Stax units are capable of.
And you never will until you start focusing on your source.

* of course, nothing's perverse here at all; Stax owners are just like Fostex or Audeze or you-name-it-"classy" brand name owners. Brand doesn't make you, your experiences and perception do alone. Most people i've come to find? Happy to spend, not very keen on listening. For those precious few however that actually_ do _want to listen, really listen? Stop buying what you see here and start putting your money on some live tickets.

My humble apologies for going off topic here and as always, feel free to dismiss this entirely.


----------



## armani006

John_M said:


> Query whether "no profit" means "after deducting an appropriate payment for my time working on it" - in which case the question would be how much "quasi-profit" they are taking. But the statement "we give away our designs and free time to help others" suggests that they aren't even being paid for their time.


Stax mafia definitely has profit on their products, no doubt. It is need to pay attention to salaries in Island. Their salaries are much higher than in continental Europe. Even for example, a lunch for one person costs 50 euros instead of 20-25 in Germany or other western Europe country. From here you need to think about how much a person should earn by doing this hobby that we are discussing here. Perhaps from this the prices that are set by an Icelandic company. In this sense, it would be much cooler if enthusiasts from Russia or Romania or Poland would build the same good products for the market for electrostatic headphones.


----------



## tumpux

... but then it wouldn’t be that cool.


----------



## nileppezdel77

Aenra said:


> This is such a perverse forum
> Sure, you have "sponsors", so sure, given time enough the posters will come (by force of repetition, or force alone) to match the quality or approach of the content sponsored. Repetition and wear..
> You add the trends of our time and that this forum does seem to gravitate towards the younger or less privileged, again sure, much of what one comes to read is to be expected really.
> 
> ...



What's an SMD?


----------



## bearFNF

nileppezdel77 said:


> What's an SMD?


"Surface Mount Device" like this:





See here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-mount_technology


----------



## SeniorBrother

armani006 said:


> Stax mafia definitely has profit on their products, no doubt. It is need to pay attention to salaries in Island. Their salaries are much higher than in continental Europe. Even for example, a lunch for one person costs 50 euros instead of 20-25 in Germany or other western Europe country. From here you need to think about how much a person should earn by doing this hobby that we are discussing here. Perhaps from this the prices that are set by an Icelandic company. In this sense, it would be much cooler if enthusiasts from Russia or Romania or Poland would build the same good products for the market for electrostatic headphones.


A built in china kgsshv could be had for 1300-1500 usd. Half what mjolnir chargers. A carbon for 2000.


----------



## astrostar59

The Stax amps are not the best IMO. If you are comfortable with DIY creations, there are many alternatives that sound better.


----------



## paradoxper

SeniorBrother said:


> A built in china kgsshv could be had for 1300-1500 usd. Half what mjolnir chargers. A carbon for 2000.


The question is whom is the China builder. That is all that matters. 

Go look at the other place and see the recent horror from the incompetence of Japan building.


----------



## mulveling (Jun 5, 2020)

SeniorBrother said:


> A built in china kgsshv could be had for 1300-1500 usd. Half what mjolnir chargers. A carbon for 2000.


It used to be you could also find a respected builder in the USA / Canada to build a KGSShv for those prices (a bit higher than 2K for a Carbon, to be sure), and NOT screw anything up like many of the Chinese builds. I don't know about now. But sure, a KGSShv at the Iron Iceland price - absolutely not worth it, no (but ask him a stupid question and the ensuing abuse is FREE). Hit up the used market if you're in the 2K - 3K price range, and check the pedigree of builder.


----------



## SeniorBrother

mulveling said:


> It used to be you could also find a respected builder in the USA / Canada to build a KGSShv for those prices (a bit higher than 2K for a Carbon, to be sure), and NOT screw anything up like many of the Chinese builds. I don't know about now. But sure, a KGSShv at the Iron Iceland price - absolutely not worth it, no (but ask him a stupid question and the ensuing abuse is FREE). Hit up the used market if you're in the 2K - 3K price range, and check the pedigree of builder.


 Yea I miss remembered the prices for a carbon. More like 3k or a little less if you can negotiate well.


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## buzzlulu (Jun 11, 2020)

mulveling said:


> It used to be you could also find a respected builder in the USA / Canada to build a KGSShv for those prices (a bit higher than 2K for a Carbon, to be sure), and NOT screw anything up like many of the Chinese builds. I don't know about now. But sure, a KGSShv at the Iron Iceland price - absolutely not worth it, no (but ask him a stupid question and the ensuing abuse is FREE). Hit up the used market if you're in the 2K - 3K price range, and check the pedigree of builder.



I do not know why there is all this controversy over Icelandic prices.  It really is quite simple.  One decides what they want to spend and they then go out and find a vendor at their price point to spend it with.  Why does there need to be any denigrating of Birgir's prices.  Do people know what the cost of parts are in Iceland?  Do they know the import tariffs on imported components?  Do they know the taxation system?  In other words no one knows anything about what the cost of doing business is in Iceland - so stop ranting on about it.

As for the comment about "ensuing abuse on the forum" - that is quite a mystery to me - a rather funny one at that.  I have posted about 3 times on said forum and have witnessed some of the bakers comments.  He is definitely a Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde.  When it came to dealing directly with him arranging the purchase of my Carbon I have never come across a more responsive, helpful or understanding person.  An absolute PLEASURE to do business with - and a much higher standard of service than others I have encountered here Stateside.


----------



## SeniorBrother

buzzlulu said:


> I do not know why there is all this controversy over Icelandic prices.  It really is quite simple.  One decides what they want to spend and they then go out and find a vendor at their price point to spend it with.  Why does there need to be any denigrating of Birgir's prices.  Do people know what the cost of parts are in Iceland?  Do they know the import tariffs on imported components?  Do they know the taxation system?  In other words know one knows anything about what the cost of doing business is in Iceland - so stop ranting on about it.
> 
> As for the comment about "ensuing abuse on the forum" - that is quite a mystery to me - a rather funny one at that.  I have posted about 3 times on said forum and have witnessed some of the bakers comments.  He is definitely a Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde.  When it came to dealing directly with him arranging the purchase of my Carbon I have never come across a more responsive, helpful or understanding person.  An absolute PLEASURE to do business with - and a much higher standard of service than others I have encountered here Stateside.




I dont have an issue with brigir's prices. I have an issue with people deciding that the market price for a carbon gets inflated because of it.


----------



## SeniorBrother

I dropped my l700 mk1 yesterday. Its ok but I always feel like I might break the headband. Is it a known issue that they break easily? (The pegs where the headbands connect to the drivers)


----------



## catscratch

The L700 Mk1 headband is very fragile. Mine broke at the square plastic yoke that holds the earcups. The Mk2 yokes are metal for that reason.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Jun 7, 2020)

Can anyone familiar with the Stax SRM-1/mk2 amp help me understand what a fair used price for one is? I have one and it seems like I was practically about to give it away according to hifi shark lol... I'm seeing $600-800, can that be right?? I bought mine quite a long time ago and can't remember what I paid.. will still give a deal but any insight would be appreciated!


----------



## armani006

Has somebody any ideas   to improve power section of 006tII amp? I mean power transformer, is it any better variants on market?


----------



## Zoide

zeitlos said:


> I've just ordered the L700 Mk2. So I will have both and be able to compare.


Did you ever compare them? Is there a sound difference between the two?

Thanks


----------



## timb5881

I just received my new (made from new parts by Birgir at Mjonir) a SR-404 Lambda.  So far they sound great!


----------



## AudioThief

timb5881 said:


> I just received my new (made from new parts by Birgir at Mjonir) a SR-404 Lambda.  So far they sound great!



I recently got my hands on a pair of SR-404 which I plan to have on my cabin in the woods. My impressions of them in short:

The SR-404 have traits from the current lambda family. The soundstaging is somewhere between L300 and L500, the treble and overall tonality I feel is closer to the L700. The level of microdetail or overall detail is to my ears similar to L700. It has a lot of "punch" to its sound, and I feel its more hardhitting than the current lambdas. I wouldn't hesitate recommending it to anyone looking at the current lambda lineup, because they can be had for very cheap. In terms of fidelity or "technicalities" it lies closer to the L500/L700 than the L300 to my ears. 

The SR-404 is first and foremost a bit different than the L500 in direct comparison through the same amp (006t). I think the L500 is a bit more refined sounding, with larger soundstage, more well defined/higher quality bass, and a more even frequency response. The SR-404 is a bit brighter, just like I feel the L700 is. The good thing is that both the SR-404 and L700 push details further up in the mix, and so is a bit more analytical sounding to my ears. In conclusion, I think the SR-404 is a bit more specialist than the L500 and L700. Its like a L300 with more impact, more technical capabilities, and a bit larger soundstage. Its fantastic for classical, acoustic, the normal "stax"-genres. The newer lambda series, especially the L500 and L700 I feel have been made to work with more genres than Stax of old (except the 007 and maybe the original Omegas, which I haven't heard). In that department, progress have been made. But in terms of detail, clarity and so on, the SR-404 feels right at home and is an awesome headphone which is still very similar sounding to the current lambda lineup. 

When reading about the 404 online, it got all sorts of hate. I don't know why, its really good, and at the price you can get it now, its really a fantastic purchase. I hold the L500 in very high regard, and the SR-404 isn't far off to my ears in terms of overall enjoyment, and the 404s are probably a bit more detailed than them even.


----------



## Armored Soul

How do the Stax SR-Sigmas compare with Jecklin Float Electrostatics? It doesn't matter which models are used to be compared.


----------



## John_M

VRacer-111 said:


> I had an SRM-323S (353X without the balanced connectors) and never went beyond 3, mainly around 2.5. This is with SR-L300. Going from the SRM-323S to a NAD C275BEE stereo amp with Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 transformer was a noticeable difference, mainly in the low end presence and an overall fuller, punchier sound. Immediately put SRM-323S up for sale after the comparison...



Thanks for the reply. It is very difficult for a non specialist to make a judgement when people say such opposing things. We have had one guy swearing blind that it would be impossible to make a distinction like this in a blind test and others saying it is as clear as day. It is annoying to hear you maybe aren't getting the best possible sound. If push came to shove I could redesign my living room a bit and make an extra dedicated table for one of the large amps + DAC + SR 009. It would be interesting for someone to do an actual blind test on this and hopefully resolve the issue...


----------



## rayofsi

thinker said:


> Phenomenon improved Carbon amplifier,lot's of light inside,excellent built


was this ever compared to a carbon? or kgsshv, i think i saw a mention of you getting one to compare


----------



## AudioThief (Jun 11, 2020)

John_M said:


> Thanks for the reply. It is very difficult for a non specialist to make a judgement when people say such opposing things. We have had one guy swearing blind that it would be impossible to make a distinction like this in a blind test and others saying it is as clear as day. It is annoying to hear you maybe aren't getting the best possible sound. If push came to shove I could redesign my living room a bit and make an extra dedicated table for one of the large amps + DAC + SR 009. It would be interesting for someone to do an actual blind test on this and hopefully resolve the issue...



Hi John, so I want to add something to this:

- I can't say its impossible to hear the difference. In fact, its much more likely there being a difference between electrostatic amps than regular headphone amps. There are clear sound differences to be found between electrostatic amplifiers, especially tube vs solid state. I personally believe there is a audible difference between the 3 amps I've owned - 252s, 727ii and 006t. I haven't blind tested, so I can't know for sure of course, but thats my subjective opinion.

The issue I have is that people claim there is a difference in sound quality from one capable amplifier to another, as we've discussed several times. I can't prove them wrong, in fact that would be very hard even if I did have the amps in question and the equipment to test. But I will say that taking someones word on that kind of purchase is a bad idea, simply because we know how much biases and placebo play into our perception of music quality. We expect more from a huge, expensive amplifier that we've read is the holy grail. The difference in sound, if there at all, is extremely unlikely to be in any kind "objectively better" when you can do the math and see the power is there to drive the headphones.

As for the 009, they are a lot easier to drive than the 007, and if I were you, I'd pair it with the 007T or 006ts, as I think they pair well with tubes. It is also easily driven by the 727ii. If you want to go the safe route, the top end stax amps are designed for the headphones, by the most renowned and trusted estat headphone company in the world. While the third party amps are capable, it just makes no sense they would make the 009s sound better, if different at all. And when you can't even demo it, and just have to take a leap of faith based on what a few users who bought it say...

edit: just as food for thought, consider this: The guys who bought the BHSE swear by it over the Carbon. The guys who got the Carbon swear by it over the BHSE. The guys who have the T2/DIY T2 says its ANOTHER step up from the Carbon again.. does this make logical sense? The headphones are already capably driven by the top stax amps, mathematically speaking. The Carbon is a beyond overkill amplifier, why do "expert audiophiles" claim the T2 is even better? None of it makes any sense.


----------



## rayofsi

Finally got my new amp running. Reserving judgement until later. I know some tubes are so bright, my ears want to bleed.


----------



## mulveling

AudioThief said:


> edit: just as food for thought, consider this: The guys who bought the BHSE swear by it over the Carbon. The guys who got the Carbon swear by it over the BHSE. The guys who have the T2/DIY T2 says its ANOTHER step up from the Carbon again.. does this make logical sense? The headphones are already capably driven by the top stax amps, mathematically speaking. The Carbon is a beyond overkill amplifier, why do "expert audiophiles" claim the T2 is even better? None of it makes any sense.


But the guys who have owned all 3 will tell you that the Carbon and BHSE are on the same approximate level, while the Gilmore'd T2 is on another level! Carbon makes a very strong match with 009S and 007 (Mk I in my case) - probably, most would prefer it to the BHSE here. But the Carbon can be a bit too bright and aggressive with 009 and L700. Some have gone so far as to introduce tubes upstream (including a tube preamp) if they have this combo. The BHSE does very well on all 4 headphones; just a great all-rounder. If you want to run primarily 009 and/or L700 you might do better with the BHSE, and it will still do great if you add a 007 later (I don't believe there's any point in getting a 009S if you already have a BHSE & 009). The L700 runs very near - if not at - its maximum capabilities on a BHSE.

The DIY T2 simply elevates 007, 009, 009S, and he90 to a whole new level. Yes, even the relatively easy to drive 009 & 009S. You have to hear to believe. The 009S get a little left behind the others, but only slightly. A good case could be made for any of the other 3 being "ultimate" on the T2. Though sadly the L700 doesn't seem to get elevated on T2 like the others - it's not any worse than on a BHSE, just not much better.


----------



## robo24 (Jun 11, 2020)

Decided to try my favorite ZMF pads on the the SR-007 MK2, the Universe suede & perforate suede. While they fit, they're very close to too big. They certainly fit better and are more comfortable than the stock 007 or 009 pads I've used on them, and I also prefer them over the Brainwavz pleather/velour hybrid perforated pads. I generally dislike the feel of leather, and living where I do, it makes my face sweat too quickly. I think the ZMF pads sound as good as the others, but can't really give details on the difference. I have a poor sound memory and swapping pads can take a few minutes. If you have ZMF pads, they may be worth trying.


----------



## Mach3

AudioThief said:


> Hi John, so I want to add something to this:
> 
> - I can't say its impossible to hear the difference. In fact, its much more likely there being a difference between electrostatic amps than regular headphone amps. There are clear sound differences to be found between electrostatic amplifiers, especially tube vs solid state. I personally believe there is a audible difference between the 3 amps I've owned - 252s, 727ii and 006t.



Well my wife has zero interest or knowledge regarding headphones. But even she can tell the difference in all my Stax energiser, 252S, SRM-T1S, SRM-600 LE & the SRM-007t.
I have two SR-007 MK1 that was used for the comparison.


----------



## Hubert481

Can you describe the difference - or your wife?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Mach3 said:


> Well my wife has zero interest or knowledge regarding headphones. But even she can tell the difference in all my Stax energiser, 252S, SRM-T1S, SRM-600 LE & the SRM-007t.
> I have two SR-007 MK1 that was used for the comparison.



Sounds like a keeper!


----------



## Mach3

Hubert481 said:


> Can you describe the difference - or your wife?


We both can.


----------



## dripf

Mach3 said:


> Well my wife has zero interest or knowledge regarding headphones. But even she can tell the difference in all my Stax energiser, 252S, SRM-T1S, SRM-600 LE & the SRM-007t.
> I have two SR-007 MK1 that was used for the comparison.



I think I've already posted the FR chart showing no difference in FR between 252 and 717 with SR-007 at a very high 105 dB.


----------



## SeniorBrother (Jun 12, 2020)

So i just upgraded from asn srd-7 mk2 with an emotiva a-100 to a KGST, And while the KGST beats it in almost every regard the only place it fails is in regards to piano music. In especial dynamic piano music , as an example Spectrum by Hiromi at about one minute into the song, the KGST gets distorted at my normal listening volumes but the SRD-7 has no almost no trouble. Is this an issue of my KGST or of the recording itself. I have heard that the higher level you go in audio equipment the more you realize how terrible your music is.


----------



## dripf

Get tech support or a refund then.


----------



## Hubert481

Mach3 said:


> We both can.


And ...


----------



## number1sixerfan

number1sixerfan said:


> Can anyone familiar with the Stax SRM-1/mk2 amp help me understand what a fair used price for one is? I have one and it seems like I was practically about to give it away according to hifi shark lol... I'm seeing $600-800, can that be right?? I bought mine quite a long time ago and can't remember what I paid.. will still give a deal but any insight would be appreciated!



Still have not seen a lower price for this amp. Thinking of offering it (8/10 condition) at $500 + a like new Stax L300 (less than 30hrs) bought from headamp earlier this year for $300 (again, far lower than what I've seen) as a combo. Just want to make sure before posting, I've been away from the hobby for a while. I'm not way off on either, right?


----------



## SeniorBrother

number1sixerfan said:


> Still have not seen a lower price for this amp. Thinking of offering it (8/10 condition) at $500 + a like new Stax L300 (less than 30hrs) bought from headamp earlier this year for $300 (again, far lower than what I've seen) as a combo. Just want to make sure before posting, I've been away from the hobby for a while. I'm not way off on either, right?


From eBay. Sold prices.


----------



## number1sixerfan

SeniorBrother said:


> From eBay. Sold prices.



Appreciate that. I don't know why hifishark looks so much higher on average and the ones currently for sale on ebay look higher. Although they all are from Europe or Japan. I'll sell it for around $200 then. I do want to offer a good deal, as I just need the stuff gone. Thanks again!


----------



## SeniorBrother

number1sixerfan said:


> Appreciate that. I don't know why hifishark looks so much higher on average and the ones currently for sale on ebay look higher. Although they all are from Europe or Japan. I'll sell it for around $200 then. I do want to offer a good deal, as I just need the stuff gone. Thanks again!


The market for this sort of rare audio gear is so very small that it can be dictated by a handful of people so the asking prices can be wild.


----------



## paradoxper

mulveling said:


> But the guys who have owned all 3 will tell you that the Carbon and BHSE are on the same approximate level, while the Gilmore'd T2 is on another level! Carbon makes a very strong match with 009S and 007 (Mk I in my case) - probably, most would prefer it to the BHSE here. But the Carbon can be a bit too bright and aggressive with 009 and L700. Some have gone so far as to introduce tubes upstream (including a tube preamp) if they have this combo. The BHSE does very well on all 4 headphones; just a great all-rounder. If you want to run primarily 009 and/or L700 you might do better with the BHSE, and it will still do great if you add a 007 later (I don't believe there's any point in getting a 009S if you already have a BHSE & 009). The L700 runs very near - if not at - its maximum capabilities on a BHSE.
> 
> The DIY T2 simply elevates 007, 009, 009S, and he90 to a whole new level. Yes, even the relatively easy to drive 009 & 009S. You have to hear to believe. The 009S get a little left behind the others, but only slightly. A good case could be made for any of the other 3 being "ultimate" on the T2. Though sadly the L700 doesn't seem to get elevated on T2 like the others - it's not any worse than on a BHSE, just not much better.


That won't satisfy him, either. Spot on.


----------



## John_M (Jun 13, 2020)

AudioThief said:


> Hi John, so I want to add something to this:
> 
> - I can't say its impossible to hear the difference.



Thanks for the reply, although your view does seem to have moved very subtly (I'm sure I remember an earlier post where you said that provided two estat amps both had sufficient power and inaudible distortion levels, they would be indistinguishable). The whole thing is still very puzzling to a non-specialist as some of the "mafia" do seem to have very strong technical knowledge, do make claims that e.g. the Carbon sounds better than the Stax amps, and don't appear to be doing what they are doing in order to profit from it.

One area where I certainly agree with you is that tests of this really have to be of a certain type which I believe shouldn't be discussed on this forum... I mean just watching the guy in the video below should be sufficient to discredit all sighted tests of any audio equipment, forever.


----------



## John_M

dripf said:


> I think I've already posted the FR chart showing no difference in FR between 252 and 717 with SR-007 at a very high 105 dB.



Would it be OK to post a link to this?


----------



## AudioThief

John_M said:


> Thanks for the reply, although your view does seem to have moved very subtly (I'm sure I remember an earlier post where you said that provided two estat amps both had sufficient power and inaudible distortion levels, they would be indistinguishable). The whole thing is still very puzzling to a non-specialist as some of the "mafia" do seem to have very strong technical knowledge, do make claims that e.g. the Carbon sounds better than the Stax amps, and don't appear to be doing what they are doing in order to profit from it.
> 
> One area where I certainly agree with you is that tests of this really have to be of a certain type which I believe shouldn't be discussed on this forum... I mean just watching the guy in the video below should be sufficient to discredit all sighted tests of any audio equipment, forever.




My stance hasn't changed. Its not about being powerful to give loud enough sound to blow your ears off, its about being powerful enough to drive the headphones properly. When I owned the 007, I tried putting them into the 252s for a laugh. The 252s can give you loud enough levels on the 007, but it just sounds absolutely terrible. 

The key thing, as I've stated before, is that when an amplifier is powerful enough (which the 727II are, in the case of the 007), the sound won't change going from one capable and adequately powerful one to another. The extra power from the Carbon just doesn't matter. You'll get more audible difference going for SS to tube.


----------



## AudioThief

paradoxper said:


> That won't satisfy him, either. Spot on.



Why on earth would it satisfy me? Its literally the age old argument of "I've heard it and its another level ! You just gotta hear it to believe it!"


----------



## paradoxper

AudioThief said:


> Why on earth would it satisfy me? Its literally the age old argument of "I've heard it and its another level ! You just gotta hear it to believe it!"


Yea. Yea. Its literally the age old argument of "I've never heard it but look at the numbers!"


----------



## number1sixerfan

AudioThief said:


> My stance hasn't changed. Its not about being powerful to give loud enough sound to blow your ears off, its about being powerful enough to drive the headphones properly. When I owned the 007, I tried putting them into the 252s for a laugh. The 252s can give you loud enough levels on the 007, but it just sounds absolutely terrible.
> 
> The key thing, as I've stated before, is that when an amplifier is powerful enough (which the 727II are, in the case of the 007), the sound won't change going from one capable and adequately powerful one to another. The extra power from the Carbon just doesn't matter. You'll get more audible difference going for SS to tube.



This just isn't true lol.. like at all lol


----------



## AudioThief

paradoxper said:


> Yea. Yea. Its literally the age old argument of "I've never heard it but look at the numbers!"


And the numbers side is the one based in reality, while the subjective experience side is based in bias. Any claim goes. I'm just laughing at the though of the people paying 6000$ for the Carbon who are still leaving sound on the table - if only they had the T2 so they could have the actual best sound!


number1sixerfan said:


> This just isn't true lol.. like at all lol



Feel free to enlighten me.


----------



## paradoxper

AudioThief said:


> And the numbers side is the one based in reality, while the subjective experience side is based in bias. Any claim goes. I'm just laughing at the though of the people paying 6000$ for the Carbon who are still leaving sound on the table - if only they had the T2 so they could have the actual best sound!


That's just your silly shittt generalizations. Based off zero experience. Go figure!

The 009 and KGSSHV were actually better paired than with the Carbon.

Shrugs.


----------



## AudioThief

paradoxper said:


> snip



How so? We know for a fact audio is highly subjective. We know the differences die in blind tests. Engineers understand how amplifiers work, and having excess power beyond what properly drives a pair of headphone will not and cannot change the signature. The Carbon is massively overpowered, the T2 cannot change the sound by adding more power. You call out my experience, but the funny thing is that until you blind test the equipment, your experience is null and void because it is so plagued by bias. 

I don't care what you think are better pairings to be honest. You could say T2, you could say the ESP-950 amplifier, it doesn't matter. Whatever you say is what goes, because nobody seems to care about objectivity anyways.


----------



## paradoxper

AudioThief said:


> How so? We know for a fact audio is highly subjective. We know the differences die in blind tests. Engineers understand how amplifiers work, and having excess power beyond what properly drives a pair of headphone will not and cannot change the signature. The Carbon is massively overpowered, the T2 cannot change the sound by adding more power. You call out my experience, but the funny thing is that until you blind test the equipment, your experience is null and void because it is so plagued by bias.
> 
> I don't care what you think are better pairings to be honest. You could say T2, you could say the ESP-950 amplifier, it doesn't matter. Whatever you say is what goes, because nobody seems to care about objectivity anyways.


We are going to get banned. LOL. Christ.


----------



## AudioThief

paradoxper said:


> We are going to get banned. LOL. Christ.



Yeah I'll stop here. I've made my point several times, no need to keep harping on it, sorry about that.

To change topic sligthly, I'll mention the main difference I feel there is between the 252s and 727II/006t, which mirrors what I've read online - they sound similar until I crank the volume, at which point the 252s gets a lot more narrow/harsh sounding while the 727II/006t gets louder, but not more harsh/sibilant sounding. I can't say I remember running into that problem on the 727II with the 007, but maybe there's a similar effect going on going up in power towards the third party amps.


----------



## number1sixerfan

AudioThief said:


> Feel free to enlighten me.



I have two highly capable amps in the WES and BHSE (extremely capable and nearly equal power wise) and the sound drastically changes between the two. I happen to appreciate both, a big reason I haven't been able to sale one or the other. And that's just a current, relevant example. This same observation is easily seen with other amps, regardless of power and graphs..


----------



## Erfan Elahi

hello everyone... I know this may be a stupid hope  , but if there are amps that can work for both electrostatic and planner headphones ?


----------



## sonics

Erfan Elahi said:


> hello everyone... I know this may be a stupid hope  , but if there are amps that can work for both electrostatic and planner headphones ?



Some I know:

LTA Z10e - https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/products/z10e-electrostatic-headphone-amp-integrated-amp

Audiovalve Solaris - 
https://www.audiovalve.info/shop/headphone-amplifier/verto-kopie-2/

Malvalve Headamp 3 - https://www.malvalve.de/Headamp3.htm


----------



## robo24

Erfan Elahi said:


> hello everyone... I know this may be a stupid hope  , but if there are amps that can work for both electrostatic and planner headphones ?


the iFi iESL has an XLR4 socket for dynamic/planars but needs to be hooked up to another source such as the iFi Pro iCAN.


----------



## Erfan Elahi

alright guys thanks a lot, will look up


----------



## tabness

Does anyone have a T1S with the darker bronze faceplate (rather than the more shiny gold one) they would be willing to part with or know of one for sale (no mods aside from changing to US voltage)?

It would be the perfect match for the Omega (aside from an actual SRM-T2 of course) but unfortunately it seems to be a rare color as compared to the usual shiny one...


----------



## iFi audio

robo24 said:


> the iFi iESL has an XLR4 socket for dynamic/planars but needs to be hooked up to another source such as the iFi Pro iCAN.



Although iESL was designed to work nicely with Pro iCAN, it can get juice from a regular speaker amp's taps, but it shouldn't be higher that 100W/8Ω, and no lower than 10W/8Ω. Balanced headphone amps can also work with Pro iESL if they can deliver 10V/64Ω.


----------



## Currawong

Don't forget to consider listening loudness. A lot of the arguments for much more powerful amps were made by someone who wanted to rock out at loud volumes on the 007. That being said, the bass was a lot better on the 009S when using the T8000 vs. using the cheaper amps. There just doesn't seem to be a cheap way to get a full degree of satisfaction out of 'stats, even if you can do DIY.


----------



## nileppezdel77

iFi audio said:


> Although iESL was designed to work nicely with Pro iCAN, it can get juice from a regular speaker amp's taps, but it shouldn't be higher that 100W/8Ω, and no lower than 10W/8Ω. Balanced headphone amps can also work with Pro iESL if they can deliver 10V/64Ω.



Wait, why? I thought there was only a lower limit? I've had mine attached to two monoblock nc400 amps delivering 200w/channel/8ohms. Am I killing something internally or the headphones or the amps doing this? I even have it in the chain to some Magnepans! Sound quality has been absurdly spectacular! Well, everything is disconnected for now, hoping for some clarification. Thanks!


----------



## iFi audio (Jun 17, 2020)

Currawong said:


> There just doesn't seem to be a cheap way to get a full degree of satisfaction out of 'stats, even if you can do DIY.



Yes, in this regard estats are quite special indeed.



nileppezdel77 said:


> Wait, why? I thought there was only a lower limit? I've had mine attached to two monoblock nc400 amps delivering 200w/channel/8ohms. Am I killing something internally or the headphones or the amps doing this? I even have it in the chain to some Magnepans! Sound quality has been absurdly spectacular! Well, everything is disconnected for now, hoping for some clarification. Thanks!



Those numbers I listed in my previous post are from iESL's manual. I don't think that you're killing anything, but just to double-check how iESL handles your monos' output power, I'll ask internally about any consequences or disadvantages (if there are any to begin with) and will get back to you.


----------



## nileppezdel77

iFi audio said:


> Yes, in this regard estats are quite special indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> Those numbers I listed in my previous post are from iESL's manual. I don't think that you're killing anything, but just to double-check how iESL handles your monos' output power, I'll ask internally about any consequences or disadvantages (if there are any to begin with) and will get back to you.




I do see that in the manual, checked after I commented. The manual seems more concerned about volume considerations but I eagerly await any further info you can provide! Moved back to my Emotiva a100 for now but damn it's nowhere near as clean sounding.


----------



## iFi audio

nileppezdel77 said:


> I do see that in the manual, checked after I commented. The manual seems more concerned about volume considerations but I eagerly await any further info you can provide! Moved back to my Emotiva a100 for now but damn it's nowhere near as clean sounding.



Here's the update:

We recommend sepcs listed in iESL's manual as a sensible and reliably safe range. Just as it is with other headphones, electrostatic headphones can be damaged by excessively high signal levels (the same is true for other headphones). Of course damage is not happening if the signal levels are kept modest, although accidents can happen.

Simply connecting an amplifier with a rating higher than 100W/8Ohm will not cause automatic damage if the signal levels are kept at normal listening levels. Even a 10000W amplifier could be connected, as long as output levels do not exceed around 80V peak-to-peak. However, if by accident the volume control is set too high - high power amps can deliver voltage beyond this safe level, with potentially fatal consequences.

So it is not a higher powered amplifier connected that causes damage, but instead accidentally driving a such a product beyond recommended limits. That's what can potentially lead to damage mainly to headphones. But excess power can also harm iESL.

200W/8Ohm instead of 100W/8Ohm should be "mostly harmless", but no warranties are given or implied with this statement. In short, you need to be careful to not accidentally go overboard with power


----------



## nileppezdel77

iFi audio said:


> Here's the update:
> 
> We recommend sepcs listed in iESL's manual as a sensible and reliably safe range. Just as it is with other headphones, electrostatic headphones can be damaged by excessively high signal levels (the same is true for other headphones). Of course damage is not happening if the signal levels are kept modest, although accidents can happen.
> 
> ...




Awesome! Going back to the good stuff!


----------



## iFi audio

nileppezdel77 said:


> Awesome! Going back to the good stuff!



Enjoy and just be careful to not push too hard with SPL and you'll be fine


----------



## billqs

A Public Service Announcement:

There's someone about to list an Omega in the Headphones for Sale/Trade Forum.


----------



## Tarttett

Are there any energisers that have the same headphone stand form factor as STAX's SRM-300 + SRM-310 amplifiers?


----------



## Tarttett

What wood are the HPS-2s made from?


----------



## afgmjkl

Tarttett said:


> Are there any energisers that have the same headphone stand form factor as STAX's SRM-300 + SRM-310 amplifiers?



here...


----------



## Erfan Elahi (Jun 20, 2020)

sonics said:


> Some I know:
> 
> LTA Z10e - https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/products/z10e-electrostatic-headphone-amp-integrated-amp
> 
> ...


If i buy any used amp from USA or Japan, then I will need a voltage transformer for EU voltage. I see there are many options of 200watts to 5000 watts like this. How much watt is consumed by highend electrostatic or planner headphone amps? I see higher watts models are more heavy by weight. Or a simple voltage converter can work too? Which watt range should be enough for such highend amps and dacs? I plan only for my headphone setup.


----------



## Eich1eeF

Erfan Elahi said:


> If i buy any used amp from USA or Japan, then I will need a voltage transformer for EU voltage.


You don't necessarily need a transformer, some of the older STAX amplifiers can be converted to just about any voltage by re-soldering a few wires, some of the ancient ones are even simpler. Nowadays, the wires on the transformers inside the amps are usually cut rather tightly, so that a modification isn't as easy. 

Since you don't specify which amp you intend to buy: the 007t is rated at 55W, the 727 at 46W. Even with plenty of margin for inrush current, 200W may be enough.


----------



## Erfan Elahi

Eich1eeF said:


> You don't necessarily need a transformer, some of the older STAX amplifiers can be converted to just about any voltage by re-soldering a few wires, some of the ancient ones are even simpler. Nowadays, the wires on the transformers inside the amps are usually cut rather tightly, so that a modification isn't as easy.
> 
> Since you don't specify which amp you intend to buy: the 007t is rated at 55W, the 727 at 46W. Even with plenty of margin for inrush current, 200W may be enough.


alright thanks a lot, that helps


----------



## tabness

afgmjkl said:


> here...



Is this a real product? I searched and couldn't find anything but the 353X, but this form factor would be perfect for me!


----------



## iFi audio

tabness said:


> Is this a real product? I searched and couldn't find anything but the 353X, but this form factor would be perfect for me!



It looks like a real thing.


----------



## GarageBoy

I don't think the 353s was put into production - they built it for a show


----------



## daytrader (Jun 23, 2020)

afgmjkl said:


> here...


There’s a SRM-300 for sale on the site over on the Amplification Section.  It has close to the same shape but not the wood overlay top.


----------



## Tarttett

tabness said:


> Is this a real product? I searched and couldn't find anything but the 353X, but this form factor would be perfect for me!





iFi audio said:


> It looks like a real thing.





GarageBoy said:


> I don't think the 353s was put into production - they built it for a show


The exhibitor stated that it was scheduled to be released in spring of 2010.


----------



## iFi audio

Tarttett said:


> The exhibitor stated that it was scheduled to be released in spring of 2010.



OK, so it wasn't? At least not with that fancy enclosure? Looks great!


----------



## afgmjkl

Yes, it wasn't put into production. 
Only showed in 2009 fujiya avic festival.


----------



## daytrader

This won’t do?


----------



## iFi audio

daytrader said:


> This won’t do?



It would, but doesn't look as good as that wooden piece


----------



## 510198 (Jun 30, 2020)

I just snagged a pair of 404le 

I also have HD250, and X2 NB Lambdas (1modded)

Any thoughts on the 404le including sound and amp pairing?


----------



## ahmedie

SeniorBrother said:


> A built in china kgsshv could be had for 1300-1500 usd. Half what mjolnir chargers. A carbon for 2000.



Too late but I would like to add that 'phenomenon' kgsshv carbon is much better than kgst chinese build when I compared the two, on the other hand Mjolnir srd-7 was crazy good approaching or surpassing kgst levels with the right amplifier. If you are looking for super dynamic and hard-hitting bass, nothing can beat Mjolnir srd-7 with speaker amp, but you lose little details and sound-stage. (Chinese kgst was least impressive amp just a little bit better than 323s stax amp...)


----------



## Lord Rexter

Some STAX news I just saw this is this a new stealth release of Omega II's? 

https://staxheadphones.com/products/007-mk2


----------



## iFi audio

Lord Rexter said:


> Some STAX news I just saw this is this a new stealth release of Omega II's?



I'm not sure what happened there, but that stealthy black finish looks gorgeous!


----------



## robo24

Lord Rexter said:


> Some STAX news I just saw this is this a new stealth release of Omega II's?
> 
> https://staxheadphones.com/products/007-mk2


Mine look like both of those depending on the angle. The central part looks black at that other angle as pictured.


----------



## VRacer-111

Hifiboi69 said:


> Just snagged a good pair of 404le on fleebay
> 
> I also have HD250, and X2 NB Lambdas (1 modded)
> 
> ...



404 Limited has the best subbass quality I've heard in a headphone, Estat or otherwise. The L300 Limited/L700 can be modded to have equivalent subbass level, but not the detail or intricities of intonation and subbass resonances of the 404 Limited. They are one note sounding compared to the 404 Limited. The 404Limited has a warm and intimate sound compared to the brighter, more open sound of the L300 Limited/L700.

I had mine paired with RME ADI-2 DAC and NAD C275BEE stereo amp with Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 estat transformer.


----------



## 510198

VRacer-111 said:


> 404 Limited has the best subbass quality I've heard in a headphone, Estat or otherwise. The L300 Limited/L700 can be modded to have equivalent subbass level, but not the detail or intricities of intonation and subbass resonances of the 404 Limited. They are one note sounding compared to the 404 Limited. The 404Limited has a warm and intimate sound compared to the brighter, more open sound of the L300 Limited/L700.
> 
> I had mine paired with RME ADI-2 DAC and NAD C275BEE stereo amp with Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 estat transformer.



Thanks for the reply! I am definitely looking forward to hearing it. I didn’t really like the l300lt, and Voce at Canjam. They were too bright sounding for me.

Is the woo wee any good?


----------



## tumpux

Everything is good until you start to comparing it with other amps.
Personally I dont like Wee.. because I compared.


----------



## Rhamnetin

SeniorBrother said:


> A built in china kgsshv could be had for 1300-1500 usd. Half what mjolnir chargers. A carbon for 2000.



And I wouldn't touch one of those again with a 10 foot pole, for obvious reasons. Don't expect longevity or comparable sound quality.


----------



## nileppezdel77

tumpux said:


> Everything is good until you start to comparing it with other amps.
> Personally I dont like Wee.. because I compared.



What did you compare it to? I'm a huge believer in a good amp + energizer combo. My ifi iesl + Hypex NC400 monoblocks eats every Stax amp I've heard for lunch. I'd love to compare it to a KGSV, but compared to the items in the same price range, I can't imagine anything would beat it for clarity + bass accuracy and slam.


----------



## iFi audio

tumpux said:


> Everything is good until you start to comparing it with other amps.



So very true. But hey, a product able to withstand such comparisons is... a keeper


----------



## T3RIAD

Is it possible to damage electrostatic headphones by playing them too loudly? Yesterday I was listening for bass distortion in my SR-009S, and I accidentally played a bass tone that was way too loud and heard an awful crackling noise for a few seconds.

They seem to be okay but I just hope I didn't cause any damage to the drivers.


----------



## daytrader

T3RIAD said:


> Is it possible to damage electrostatic headphones by playing them too loudly? Yesterday I was listening for bass distortion in my SR-009S, and I accidentally played a bass tone that was way too loud and heard an awful crackling noise for a few seconds.
> 
> They seem to be okay but I just hope I didn't cause any damage to the drivers.


Not sure for your SR-009S but I do own electrostatic speakers and if played to loud with bass emphasis sometimes they can “flap“ or some call it fart, making a cracking noise as the stats are pushed to hard.  I’m sure this is what you experienced and likely have no damage.  Just don’t keep doing it, is my advise.  It’s a very expensive piece of audio reproductive gear to abuse.  🎧


----------



## nileppezdel77

T3RIAD said:


> Is it possible to damage electrostatic headphones by playing them too loudly? Yesterday I was listening for bass distortion in my SR-009S, and I accidentally played a bass tone that was way too loud and heard an awful crackling noise for a few seconds.
> 
> They seem to be okay but I just hope I didn't cause any damage to the drivers.



Guess you found the distortion point.


----------



## T3RIAD

nileppezdel77 said:


> Guess you found the distortion point.



Lol yes, wasn't really my intention though. I was comparing how the bass sounds to the RAAL SR1a, but I only meant to compare at normal listening levels.


----------



## Jacques Lolive

*Problem with a SRM 006tS amp*

Hello

I have a Stax SRM 006tS amp and SRL 700 MK2 headphones which give me complete satisfaction in terms of sound, but unfortunately the amp has a problem. I have to change the Electro-harmonix 6CG7 tubes much too quickly because the front tube which corresponds to the right channel stops working after three or four months. First it’s like a loose connexion, the sound works again if I turn the amp off and on again immediately and then after a few days the lamp definitively stops working. Since the purchase of the amp in April 2019 I had to change tubes several times

By reading specialized forums (Head-Fi, Headcase) the power tube would have a lifespan between 4000 and 6000 h. At a rate of 2 hours of listening per day, it should therefore last between 5.5 and 8 years. It has nothing to do with the 3-4 month lifespan of the front tube of my amp

*My questions*

In case of breakdown, should the two tubes be replaced even if one of them is operating normally? This is what I did but is it really necessary?

What is the cause of the breakdown? I should point out that I don't know anything about electronics.


Is this a loose connexion?
Is it the lighting of the tube which is defective?
Is the amplifier more seriously damaged?
Are these DC balance and DC offset settings for the right channel which would have drifted and which would no longer be suitable for the tube which would wear out much more quickly?

As I am on a long-term mission for research in Brazil, I wish it was the last explanation because I can make these settings myself here by following the indications of specialized forums.


Thanks in advance for your advice


----------



## Deolum

Did anyone hear the following headphones on a good third party amp and can give a short comparison in terms of difference and how big the improvement is?

L700 MK2
SR-007 MK2
SR-009
SR-009S
(Hifiman Jade)


----------



## BenF (Jul 6, 2020)

Deolum said:


> Did anyone hear the following headphones on a good third party amp and can give a short comparison in terms of difference and how big the improvement is?
> 
> L700 MK2
> SR-007 MK2
> ...



On Blue Hawaii + Holospring DAC + SU1 interface :
*009 *sounded perfect
*009S *sounded a bit off in female vocals, too thin. Bass was also thinner than on 009.
*007 MK2 *sounded very dark, not electrostatic-like at all. Bass is fuller than both 009 and 009S.
*Shangrila Jr* sounded less natural than 009, bass is just as good. Much harder to drive than 009.
*Perun* sounded very similar to 009S, but less transparent


----------



## Deolum

BenF said:


> On Blue Hawaii + Holospring DAC + SU1 interface :
> *009 *sounded perfect
> *009S *sounded a bit off in female vocals, too thin. Bass was also thinner than on 009.
> *007 MK2 *sounded very dark, not electrostatic-like at all. Bass is fuller than both 009 and 009S.
> ...


Thanks very much! That supports my intention to go for the 009.


----------



## Jacques Lolive

*Problem with a SRM 006tS*

Helo

I rephrase my email which was perhaps ambiguous. 
I would like to know if users of Stax tube amplifiers have encountered this problem and also if a bad bias adjustment on a tube amplifier can damage the tubes and thus shorten their lifespan.

Thanks again, have a nice day


----------



## daytrader (Jul 7, 2020)

Deolum said:


> Thanks very much! That supports my intention to go for the 009.





Jacques Lolive said:


> *Problem with a SRM 006tS*
> 
> Helo
> 
> ...



i use the 007tll. 
Never had this problem.
Yes, over bias adjustment will shorten tube life considerably.


----------



## Jacques Lolive

daytrader said:


> i use the 007tll.
> Never had this problem.
> Yes, over bias adjustment will short tube life considerably.



Thank you so much. I'll try to adjust bias

Jacques


----------



## kevin gilmore

bias adjustments will not burn up a tube. but the bias adjustments can burn up the plate resistors.
it is possible that this unit has filament regulators which are always one per tube, if the regulator for that tube
is shorted the filament voltage is going to be 7.5 volts or higher which will probably damage the tube fairly quickly.
also possible that its not the tube if the unit has the relay dc protector on it, then possibly the relay is damaged.


----------



## Jacques Lolive

kevin gilmore said:


> bias adjustments will not burn up a tube. but the bias adjustments can burn up the plate resistors.
> it is possible that this unit has filament regulators which are always one per tube, if the regulator for that tube
> is shorted the filament voltage is going to be 7.5 volts or higher which will probably damage the tube fairly quickly.
> also possible that its not the tube if the unit has the relay dc protector on it, then possibly the relay is damaged.



Dear Kevin

Thank you for your precious advice. Can I abuse your kindness? Is it useful to make bias adjustments? I could do this myself. But would that be enough?
Are the repairs you mentioned in your email standard enough for a Brazilian repairman in Sao Paulo to be able to do them correctly without knowing anything about electrostatic headphones?
Do you know where I could get the diagram of the stax SRM 006 tS in order to provide it to the possible Brazilian repairman to help him?

Many thanks


----------



## 526731 (Jul 7, 2020)

Jacques Lolive said:


> Is it useful to make bias adjustments? I could do this myself. But would that be enough?
> Are the repairs you mentioned in your email standard enough for a Brazilian repairman in Sao Paulo to be able to do them correctly without knowing anything about electrostatic headphones?
> Do you know where I could get the diagram of the stax SRM 006 tS in order to provide it to the possible Brazilian repairman to help him?
> 
> Many thanks



In theory, yes, you can definitely do it yourself; i would however -not- recommend you try it, based on your expertise, ie from what i can judge based on your questions. Also, your previous post strongly indicates a technical issue and not a tube defect, so again, best to have the amp looked at by a professional.
Find someone certified (or knowledgeable, unfortunately one does not always go with the other) do this for you. They won't charge a lot for it, if there's no real issue it's like 10 minutes work, and another 10 minutes a couple of hours later. Which hopefully answers your second question.

As to the latter, start in head-case.org and with a bit of patience, you'll find your way to a certain repository of diagrams. If it's not there.. you'd best start PMing folks given the err, nature of your request. Grey area.
(diagrams are given to certified repair shops/representatives and are not meant to be freely circulated. Most countries, laws exist to actually ensure of that)


----------



## Eich1eeF

Aenra said:


> Grey area.
> (diagrams are given to certified repair shops/representatives and are not meant to be freely circulated. Most countries, laws exist to actually ensure of that)


Not very grey, actually. In most countries, the circuit isn't protected at all and can be shared freely. The PCB layout itself is theoretically protected by copyright, as is the specific diagram drawn in the service manual. You can, however, draw your own  diagram using the PCB or the manufacturer's materials and distribute that as far and wide as you like.


----------



## Jacques Lolive

Thank you very much for the advice. I'm going to search the internet for a diagram and an electronics repairer


----------



## 526731

Jacques Lolive said:


> Thank you very much for the advice. I'm going to search the internet for a diagram and an electronics repairer



You don't need the former if you're to do the latter


----------



## o7brother

Alright everybody, here's a family picture of my current e-stat gear:






The amps are a KGSSHV Mini (top) and SRM-717 (bottom). Headphones are SR-404 Limited Edition, SR-007 (Mk1), SR-007A (latest version aka 2.9), and SR-009. Some thoughts on the whole collection:

The 007 versions are rather similar in sound, seems like Stax did a good job re-capturing the magic of the original 007 in this latest 007A version, more so than the previous versions of the A/Mk2. The have the warmest and most inviting frequency response of the bunch. I can easily see why so many people defend the 007 as the true flagship over the 009(S), the tuning is simply nicer imo.

The 404LE has the best bass of the bunch. It has the punch of the 007 with quicker decay, and it has the bass detail of the 009 without feeling limp. Basically the best of both worlds and then some, what an impressive low-end! It's a shame that the detail, the soundstage and especially the imaging are not as good as the rest.

The 009 has the best technicalities, so biggest stage, best resolution. Shame that it's rather thin and aggressive-sounding. In terms of the imaging, it's quite fantastic, although the way the 007 does separation and layering is equally good, just different.

I'm a big fan of EQ because electrostatic headphones respond super well to it. I'm not sure which of them I like best after EQ'ing them all to my preference. The 009 is a strong contender for being the best because it maintains its soundstage and detail advantage, while the bass is improved tremendously, but still doesn't sound as authoritative as the other two. The 007 sounds remarkably close to the 009 after EQ, but the bass is a bit thicker, like a planar magnetic; the stage is still smaller though.


----------



## o7brother

Oh, and as far as the amps go, there's hardly any difference in sound quality to my ears. The 717 is quite good as far as Stax amps go, and I don't find it any warmer than the KG amp, despite what I had heard. Maybe it's a little bit softer in the top end? I'm not really sure.

The biggest difference is power; the KG amp is so much stronger that I had to turn down my DAC output so I could get some usable range in the amp's volume wheel. Even a 2Vrms output is quite loud in this thing, I can barely use the full 4Vrms from the XLR outputs of my balanced DAC without turning it down.

Who actually needs this level of power? I guess some people just listen much louder than I do. I wonder what the point of a KGSSHV Carbon is when a regular Mini is able to drive these headphones so well, but I haven't heard the Carbon so...


----------



## iFi audio

o7brother said:


> The amps are a KGSSHV Mini (top) and SRM-717 (bottom). Headphones are SR-404 Limited Edition, SR-007 (Mk1), SR-007A (latest version aka 2.9), and SR-009. Some thoughts on the whole collection:
> 
> The 007 versions are rather similar in sound, seems like Stax did a good job re-capturing the magic of the original 007 in this latest 007A version, more so than the previous versions of the A/Mk2. The have the warmest and most inviting frequency response of the bunch. I can easily see why so many people defend the 007 as the true flagship over the 009(S), the tuning is simply nicer imo.
> 
> ...



OK, you clearly like your estats 

Out of curiosity, if you had to pick just one amp and one headphones, what would it be then?


----------



## o7brother

Electrostatics have the best technicalities like resolution aka "speed", but the tonality can be weird. With proper EQ, they are the best headphones in the world. SOme other headphones get close, like the Hifiman planars.

As for my favorite, cost aside, it would either be the latest version of the 007 or a 009 with EQ, powered by a KGSSHV Carbon. Like I said, I haven't heard the Carbon, but I'm just assuming that it's better than the regular KGSSHV.


----------



## Deolum

Lol just left my speakers on high volume on while hearing with my lamda pro but didn't notice that the speakers were on. The whole time i thought "damn these electrostats have some good soundstage".


----------



## iFi audio

Deolum said:


> Lol just left my speakers on high volume on while hearing with my lamda pro but didn't notice that the speakers were on. The whole time i thought "damn these electrostats have some good soundstage".



That's funny 



o7brother said:


> Electrostatics have the best technicalities like resolution aka "speed", but the tonality can be weird. With proper EQ, they are the best headphones in the world. SOme other headphones get close, like the Hifiman planars.
> 
> As for my favorite, cost aside, it would either be the latest version of the 007 or a 009 with EQ, powered by a KGSSHV Carbon. Like I said, I haven't heard the Carbon, but I'm just assuming that it's better than the regular KGSSHV.



Yes, estats are headphones with tremendous potential and lightning fast at that. And thanks for sharing!


----------



## pofofo

I just bought a pair of Stax SR-Lambda (serial number: A4758) with SRD-6 adaptor for $50. I havent tried them yet, because I dont have an amplifier. The previous owner havent used them since the 80s. Ive cleaned them as best as I could, but pads are in a sorry state. The inside foam is long gone and the grill of the right one has some green coloration. 

Do you guys think there is any hope of these working? 

Any tips on how to get them cleaner or some restoration tips?


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 10, 2020)

o7brother, if those 007mkII's are yours, make sure to port mod/spring mod them. (talking about spring mod) To my experience, bringing your ears closer to 007 drivers make them sound less lush/warm and more detailed.(closer to sounding like 009) If you feel like you are in the mood to experiment, you can completely get rid of metal springs, bring your ears very close to driver to retrieve maximum detail you can get out of 007 drivers. 009's pads are shallow compared to 007 pads and 009 obviously has no metal spring to hold the pads. The aim is to mimic 009's inner closure characteristics with 007 body. They sound almost like 009 at this point with a bit more bass body and better tonality. That said, the more you bring your ears close to driver, the less bass will have impact and the less mids will sound lush/warm.






As can be seen in the picture, 007mkI has larger metal springs than 007mk 2.5/mk 2.9 which brings ears closer to driver.Thus, mkI has less 1k shout compared to mkII models. They sound more open too. Mk2.9 has thicker pads than the rest, results them having a nasty 1k shout about +5db.(measured by a friend) The aim of spring mod is to mimic 007mkI's enclosure characteristics basically. (Picture is taken by Spritzer)


----------



## o7brother

Thanks for the insightful comment 

I knew of the spring mod, but I'm not going to do it yet because I want to have the headphone measured in this configuration first. I may try that mod later, but I use EQ anyway so the tonality differences between the 007 and 009 aren't an issue at all.

I'm still in the process of comparing the sound of the two 007s that I own. So far I think I like the MK2.9 with blu-tack mod, the bass seems fuller. There are slight differences in the mids and treble though, and I have yet to establish a preference in those fronts.

Also, are you still enjoying that Carbon of yours? My KGSSHV Mini drives these 007 extremely loud with tons of room to spare, I wonder what the point of even more power would be


----------



## John_M

o7brother said:


> Also, are you still enjoying that Carbon of yours? My KGSSHV Mini drives these 007 extremely loud with tons of room to spare, I wonder what the point of even more power would be



I'm not sure if this is tongue in cheek but as you've probably realised, you might re-launch the power debate with this comment... there are quite strong opinions on both sides about it. 

If it isn't a tongue in cheek comment then you can read back through the thread to see some forcefully expressed opinions on both sides of this debate!


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 10, 2020)

Without testing amps side to side, it's hard to tell which one performs better than the other. I'm sure one day you'll test both and decide by yourself. While testing MySphere headphones, even they don't ask for a lot of power, I realized how sensitive they are for clean power and proper signal integrity. They get loud with no problem but they sounded really bad with most of the amps we paired them with. like really bad. How amps process the signal plays a big role in determining sound too.


----------



## o7brother

Tugbars said:


> I'm sure one day you'll test both and decide by yourself.



I will indeed in the near future ^^ (if everything goes according to plan)

Comparing the SRM-717 with the KGSSHV didn't exactly blow me away, but such is high-end audio I suppose. Relatively small and gradual improvements aka diminishing returns.

I'm not arguing the Carbon sounds different, I haven't heard it. What surprises me is the power aspect... even with the whole debate about voltage swing at 20 kHz and not being current-limited, I can only assume some people listen at much higher volumes than I do, where the amp's features come across more easily.


----------



## o7brother

John_M said:


> If it isn't a tongue in cheek comment then you can read back through the thread to see some forcefully expressed opinions on both sides of this debate!



I have read a significant portion of the thread, but that was my take on it. I'm not arguing about sound quality differences here, however I am serious about the power aspect, but then again I may be a low-volume listener. If I literally can't use the volume wheel of my KGSSHV Mini without significantly lowering the DAC's output, how can even more power possibly be of any use?


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 10, 2020)

well, if i recall it right, KGSSHV design is based on 717. The biggest difference between them is the power output they can put out which you mentioned already.


----------



## ahmedie

BenF said:


> *Perun* sounded very similar to 009S, but less transparent


Consider perun is only 1000ish dollar they are good deal ideed I have l300le to complement them for brighter signature


----------



## John_M

o7brother said:


> I have read a significant portion of the thread, but that was my take on it. I'm not arguing about sound quality differences here, however I am serious about the power aspect, but then again I may be a low-volume listener. If I literally can't use the volume wheel of my KGSSHV Mini without significantly lowering the DAC's output, how can even more power possibly be of any use?



Another thing I don't understand (and I'm really going to show my ignorance here...) Suppose I use a Topping D90. The RCA outputs 2Vrms. The balanced outputs 4Vrms. So can I just easily increase the power (and therefore the sound quality) just by using the balanced?


----------



## o7brother

John_M said:


> So can I just easily increase the power (and therefore the sound quality) just by using the balanced?



No, because the amplifier would clip all the same, although it can vary from amp to amp. My DAC outputs 6.7 Vrms through its XLR outputs, but it doesn't mean much in practice because all it does is give me less fine control over the volume knob on the amp because it gets louder sooner.


----------



## John_M

o7brother said:


> No, because the amplifier would clip all the same, although it can vary from amp to amp. My DAC outputs 6.7 Vrms through its XLR outputs, but it doesn't mean much in practice because all it does is give me less fine control over the volume knob on the amp because it gets louder sooner.



Can you explain why it would "clip all the same" if it's being pushed less hard? Or am I missing the point?


----------



## Tugbars

@John_M  whatever output voltage your DAC has, the amp will clip always at the same volume level.


----------



## VandyMan

o7brother said:


> If I literally can't use the volume wheel of my KGSSHV Mini without significantly lowering the DAC's output, how can even more power possibly be of any use?



I get good results by turning my BHSE volume to max (which is +0dB) and then using my DAC's volume control. Not only does it sound best to me this way, but I also then can use my DAC's remote to control the volume from my listening seat.


----------



## Tarttett

In searching for an older posted comment, I saw that Dr Gilmore had once stated that the KGSSHV, "has been replaced with something simpler and more effective." What was he referring to there?


----------



## number1sixerfan

Question for the group... any word on any other future flagships releasing? Stax or by any other stat brand? I have a WES here that I really enjoy, but it and the BHSE are overkill. With Woo's trade in program, I could try out the Woo 3ES at a reasonable cost. (also, I really just need to get rid of one of these amps so that's a big driver as well).

I could also sell the WES and* BHSE and maybe look at a T2 build or something.. but the reason I ask is because I'm really content with the level of the WES/BHSE with what I have. So If there really aren't going to be additional headphones that ever release that are of interest I may just keep what I have and sell off the WES here. It just feels silly buying such an expensive amp when there's only like 2-3 TOTL headphone options. (in comparison, with my woo WA33, I enjoy cycling through like 6 high end cans)


----------



## pofofo

I didnt get any reponse here on my last post here (wrong thread?), but what modern earpads are compatible with a pair of vintage Stax SR-Lambda Normal Bias? Im pretty sure they are glued on.


----------



## Brahmsian

I just got my first estat in the form of the 95X. Love the sound but it's plagued by static and squealing noises. I'm going to try to exchange for a new pair that will hopefully resolve the issue but was wondering if this is a problem with estats in general including Stax.


----------



## Firschi

pofofo said:


> I didnt get any reponse here on my last post here (wrong thread?), but what modern earpads are compatible with a pair of vintage Stax SR-Lambda Normal Bias? Im pretty sure they are glued on.



EP-234 or EP-507 will fit your headphones just fine


----------



## John_M

Tugbars said:


> @John_M  whatever output voltage your DAC has, the amp will clip always at the same volume level.



Thanks, that's understood! (I have repeatedly stressed how little I know...) 

Is the same true for the arguments that were being made earlier about the voltage swing requirements/ the difficulty of achieving the required output current with an electrostatic amp (i.e. the output level of the DAC doesn't make any difference at all to any of this?)


----------



## John_M

o7brother said:


> I will indeed in the near future ^^ (if everything goes according to plan)
> 
> Comparing the SRM-717 with the KGSSHV didn't exactly blow me away, but such is high-end audio I suppose. Relatively small and gradual improvements aka diminishing returns.
> 
> I'm not arguing the Carbon sounds different, I haven't heard it. What surprises me is the power aspect... even with the whole debate about voltage swing at 20 kHz and not being current-limited, I can only assume some people listen at much higher volumes than I do, where the amp's features come across more easily.



Have you still got the SRM-717? If so, do you think you could set up a volume matched blind test vs the KGSSHV mini?


----------



## pofofo

Thank you! And would the Stax SR-L700MK2 and the SR-L500MK2 headband fit? Does anyone know where I can get all of this sent to Europe? The prices are kinda insane everywhere Ive looked.


----------



## tabness

Trying this here for you Stax connoisseurs:

Can someone help with the following Lambda models in terms of the the best/most natural midrange (looking for anything close to a R10 or even CD3000 presentation of vocals and strings)? Willing to sacrifice technicalities like soundstage/imaging/layering that my current favorite Stax the 009S has.

SR-Λ (normal bias)
Lambda Signature
One of the Lambda Nova series
L700
I want to stay in the pre-1995 Stax era. Lambda Pro does not seem to be the right one from everything I've read. Sigma is way too dorky to consider. Not considering the 007 models either after my experiences with the 009S and Ω (it would likely be too dark).

For reference, I have 009S, SR-Ω, and now the L500 MKII. The 009S is just a little bit too bright and too neutral but is otherwise my favorite, I'd just like a more midrange forward phone. The Ω is a bit too dark and also too neutral like the 009S though it has the best timbre of any Stax phone I've heard. The L500 is too bright but does get a bit of the way there with a more forward midrange.


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## 510198 (Jul 14, 2020)

pofofo said:


> I just bought a pair of Stax SR-Lambda (serial number: A4758) with SRD-6 adaptor for $50. I havent tried them yet, because I dont have an amplifier. The previous owner havent used them since the 80s. Ive cleaned them as best as I could, but pads are in a sorry state. The inside foam is long gone and the grill of the right one has some green coloration.
> 
> Do you guys think there is any hope of these working?
> 
> Any tips on how to get them cleaner or some restoration tips?


Wow $50 bucks! I thought $175 for my nb was a deal and a half lol

Gently clean it (no water!) and your good to go! X-Acto knife maybe lol


----------



## 510198 (Jul 23, 2020)

tabness said:


> Trying this here for you Stax connoisseurs:
> 
> Can someone help with the following Lambda models in terms of the the best/most natural midrange (looking for anything close to a R10 or even CD3000 presentation of vocals and strings)? Willing to sacrifice technicalities like soundstage/imaging/layering that my current favorite Stax the 009S has.
> 
> ...


!

For new headphones I would recommend Verite closed.


----------



## DougD

tabness said:


> For reference, I have 009S, SR-Ω, and now the L500 MKII. The 009S is just a little bit too bright and too neutral but is otherwise my favorite, I'd just like a more midrange forward phone. The Ω is a bit too dark and also too neutral like the 009S though it has the best timbre of any Stax phone I've heard. The L500 is too bright but does get a bit of the way there with a more forward midrange.


Given your comments, seems like you don't like the dark side, but want want a little less edge/brightness. The Schiit Loki Mini at $149 might be the answer you're looking for, to dial things in just a bit, to the perfect Goldilocks sound for you.


----------



## pofofo

Hifiboi69 said:


> Wow $50 bucks! I thought $175 for my nb was a deal and a half lol
> 
> Gently clean it (no water!) and your good to go! X-Acto knife maybe lol



Thank you. I used a couple of tweezers to get rid of hair and gunk and went over everything with a microfiber cloth. They sound amazingly good with an old NEC amplifier I bought for $20, punchy and deep bass, but a little bright, might be because the inner foam is gone. I ordered a pair of earpads for Beyerdynamic DT100, hopefully I`ll get them to fit.


----------



## Tugbars

First of all, I use SR007 with KGSSHV Carbon. I really like them. 

I was in HQ of Denmark's STAX distributor yesterday.(to have my headphones fixed) I've tested 727A(fresh from the box) amp with my SR007's. It wasn't driving them loud enough to my taste even when the volume knob cranked all the way up. My SR007's sounded bland(like band-pass filtered), dark, bass was boomy.  There was no sparkle in treble like it has while driven with Carbon. They almost sounded like 500$ dynamic headphones.  I do not recommend anyone to buy 727A with 007. I think I know why now some people really find 007 bland and boring. I was surprised actually how bad my headphones could sound.

I know that there will be some who will disagree with me. I ask myself though, am I biased towards Carbon because I paid a hefty price for it? Then the audible difference was so huge that I don't even see a point in judging myself whether I was biased towards Carbon or not. At first hand, I experienced the difference again. It was unbelievable.


----------



## zeroduke

I've got 727A and also 007, 009S and 700MKII.  I have experienced no problem at all with any of them. In this case, they all sound very good and loud (1/3 power).


----------



## T3RIAD

I think the differences in e-stat amps mostly come down to power. When people say things like this:



> It wasn't driving them loud enough to my taste even when the volume knob cranked all the way up.
> 
> I do not recommend anyone to buy 727A with 007



And other people say this:



> I've got 727A and also 007, 009S and 700MKII.  I have experienced no problem at all with any of them. In this case, they all sound very good and loud (1/3 power).



The key difference here is how the first person is listening at such a higher level. It amazes me how loud some people like to listen to headphones.

I have the SR-009S with SRM-353x, which should be similar in loudness (the SR-007 is 1 dB less sensitive, but the SRM-727a has 1 dB more output). *I keep the volume knob between 9 and 10 o'clock.*

I've always wondered if a high-end amp would make my system sound better, despite the relatively low listening level. Posts like these make me think the answer is no. Whether someone thinks Stax amps sound great or suck seems to come down to how loud they listen. There is no doubt the Carbon has way more power than any of the Stax amps.


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 16, 2020)

zeroduke said:


> I've got 727A and also 007, 009S and 700MKII.  I have experienced no problem at all with any of them. In this case, they all sound very good and loud (1/3 power).



Good in relatively to what? I really don't know what "good" can mean alone without a comparison.

And yes, I listen loud. The main problem with 727A was that It sounded "filtered". Bass had no impact, trebles had no texture. Turning up or lowering the volume didn't change that. I really can't recall my experience with 007t anymore. I wish I could try again.


----------



## T3RIAD (Jul 16, 2020)

Doesn't the SRM-727a specifically have some sort of feedback problem that messes up its frequency response?


----------



## Tugbars

Yeah, the feedback is from VAS stage on 727A. The modification is to move feedback to output stage.


----------



## Mach3

Every DIY'er know the 727A needs the feedback mod to sound correctly. Google it srm-727 mod, resolder a few resister to turn them into SRM-T8000 killers.


----------



## daytrader

Mach3 said:


> Every DIY'er know the 727A needs the feedback mod to sound correctly. Google it srm-727 mod, resolder a few resister to turn them into SRM-T8000 killers.


Does the mod include two 6922s?


----------



## Andrew Seeley (Jul 17, 2020)

Just want to say I just picked up an 009S and the D-10. Will post thought compared to the Campfire solaris when they're here. I have had an 009 for awhile and bet they'll be up for sale.. been using the 009 from a feedback modified 727 II.
I doubt that will be for sale because it does shine with the sr 009... and it's probably only worth 800 to 1000 anyway. When or if I make the jump for a bigger amp I'll post here if somebody would follow that, if there is somebody who's looking for a good regular modified 727-II.


----------



## walakalulu

Was able to listen to the 009S through the LTA Z10E the other day. Sounded very pleasant although the ratchet on the volume would drive me nuts. Prefer my GG though which seemed to have more gutsy signature.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Tugbars said:


> First of all, I use SR007 with KGSSHV Carbon. I really like them.
> 
> I was in HQ of Denmark's STAX distributor yesterday.(to have my headphones fixed) I've tested 727A(fresh from the box) amp with my SR007's. It wasn't driving them loud enough to my taste even when the volume knob cranked all the way up. My SR007's sounded bland(like band-pass filtered), dark, bass was boomy.  There was no sparkle in treble like it has while driven with Carbon. They almost sounded like 500$ dynamic headphones.  I do not recommend anyone to buy 727A with 007. I think I know why now some people really find 007 bland and boring. I was surprised actually how bad my headphones could sound.
> 
> I know that there will be some who will disagree with me. I ask myself though, am I biased towards Carbon because I paid a hefty price for it? Then the audible difference was so huge that I don't even see a point in judging myself whether I was biased towards Carbon or not. At first hand, I experienced the difference again. It was unbelievable.



I don't think you're particularly biased based on this, the SR-007 is hard to drive and even a KGSS holds it back considerably compared to a Carbon or BHSE.


----------



## Deolum

Rhamnetin said:


> I don't think you're particularly biased based on this, the SR-007 is hard to drive and even a KGSS holds it back considerably compared to a Carbon or BHSE.


Would you say a well driven 007 tops a well driven 009? What about those mk 1, mk 2 and mk 2.5? Which one to chose?


----------



## zeroduke

Tugbars said:


> I really don't know what "good" can mean alone without a comparison.



It's quite interesting this sentence!  There is only one way to make a comparison about music.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Deolum said:


> Would you say a well driven 007 tops a well driven 009? What about those mk 1, mk 2 and mk 2.5? Which one to chose?



It doesn't top it, they're different. 007 is considerably more laid back (all versions are compared to the 009) and have a less linear bass response. 009 also has a lot more clarity, stronger macrodynamics and much more bass slam on the right system. I'm an SR-009 guy ultimately.

Honestly I don't recognize a Mk2.5, personally I only know the Mk1 and currently produced Mk2/007A (same thing, different color). Mk1 is more laid back while Mk2 has a more neutral treble response that's still more laid back than 009. Mk2 has more mid bass, Mk1 has more linear bass. I'm guessing the Mk2 with the bass port mod is the best of both worlds as far as 007's go; the Mk2's more even treble response with the more linear bass like the Mk1. I haven't heard this myself though.


----------



## Mach3

daytrader said:


> 6922s


You're talking about a different mod, the 727 is solid state. the mod you're talking about probably related to 007 ot 006 tube amps


----------



## number1sixerfan

Deolum said:


> Would you say a well driven 007 tops a well driven 009? What about those mk 1, mk 2 and mk 2.5? Which one to chose?



009 is hands down better than the 007. But they're very different.. the 009 is far more resolving and the epitome of the typical stax sound... and possibly too bright for some. The 007 is less impressive technically, but still has great detail, imaging etc. while being darker in tone and also having a better bottom end than the 009. I think they're excellent compliments to each other and I love my MK1.. have no intentions of getting rid of it. But if I had to choose one, it would be the 009 easily.


----------



## daytrader (Jul 18, 2020)

Mach3 said:


> You're talking about a different mod, the 727 is solid state. the mod you're talking about probably related to 007 ot 006 tube amps


Yes I know...Some tube humor I suspect. 😉
I was being a bit cheeky with your after mod comparison to out performing the T8000 which has them.


----------



## Mach3 (Jul 19, 2020)

daytrader said:


> Yes I know...Some tube humor I suspect. 😉
> I was being a bit cheeky with your after mod comparison to out performing the T8000 which has them.


Darn it, wasn't paying attention and got rikroll in the process.


----------



## tabness

So I unboxed and hooked up the 353X today. It is smaller and fits better on my little nightstand setup, isn't hot when on, and the plugs are way easier to unplug, so just what I wanted.

I haven't done back to back comparisons with the T1S but just going from audio memory they seem really similar in sound. Besides the fact that the 353X gets a little louder, I didn't really notice much if any difference with the L500 and 009S (maybe slightly smoother fuller mids on the T1S but then again that could just be me imagining/focusing on it, certainly not a major difference I can chalk up to being an actual difference without further comparison).

However, I did use this as an occasion to bust out the Ω again. I'll have to do back to back comparisons to be sure, but the Ω does seem a little less darker on the 353X than the T1S (beyond volume). It's still a darker signature than the 009S, but it's gotten closer what I assume my preferred tonality would be. I used to think that the timbre on the Ω was the most natural compared to the 009S (and now L500), and now it seemed even better because it wasn't as dark. Still, I'm pretty sure I prefer the 009S over the Ω after doing a bit of critical listening, It has a less realistic presentation, but it's just more enjoyable. Sort of like how the I prefer the CD3000 to the R10, the latter has the most natural timbre of any phone I've heard, but the CD3000 has a bit more sparkle on top and just better with most stuff.

Aside from the tonality differences, they're pretty similar phones. The Ω seems to have a little more diffusiveness in the soundstage/imaging whereas the 009S has more precision, though it isn't a great difference (and maybe I'm just influenced here by the darth_nut review). The 009S actually even seems a little less veiled and more transparent than the Ω as well which I find surprising, though this might be due to the Ω being darker (I don't think the 009S has any better clarity than the L500 for example, both are as good as it gets, maybe the Utopia was as good but I never got the chance to compare directly).


----------



## tumpux

Whoaaa.. SCD-1 and Sigma. Just wonder, did you get them since their release time?


----------



## Mach3

God damm.... I just saw 2 unicorns in the wild.... 
They both looks like they came from the factory.


----------



## daytrader (Jul 21, 2020)

Can anyone help me regarding the Stax SRM-007tll, if I were to turn the volume pot all the way to full range, would that in affect limit the volume pot signal degradation like what is done with newer SRM-700T which has a switch on the back that has the external volume bypass option?  Or am I just going to introduce higher amounts of distortion?  My goal here and why I’m asking is that I’d like to use the volume pot at my source rather than both volume pots, source and at the 007tll.


----------



## tabness

tumpux said:


> Whoaaa.. SCD-1 and Sigma. Just wonder, did you get them since their release time?



No, both are bought second hand (the Omega is from @doyouknowSBmean a true gentleman). The Omega actually has a few scratches that my phone camera didn't pick up, but it is one of the better condition specimens I've seen come up. Anyway, you don't get the Omega for its janky ass build lol

I have a love/hate relationship with the SCD-1 honestly. It's beautiful and incredibly well built and I love the CD sliding mechanism, but it takes sooooo long to start playing things on it lol


----------



## daytrader (Jul 21, 2020)

tabness said:


> No, both are bought second hand (the Omega is from @doyouknowSBmean a true gentleman). The Omega actually has a few scratches that my phone camera didn't pick up, but it is one of the better condition specimens I've seen come up. Anyway, you don't get the Omega for its janky ass build lol
> 
> I have a love/hate relationship with the SCD-1 honestly. It's beautiful and incredibly well built and I love the CD sliding mechanism, but it takes sooooo long to start playing things on it lol


One of the best things Sony ever built.  I‘ve owned the SCD-1 as well, till parts started to dry up.  Sony has fantastic customer service for this piece as I had to use it a few times.  But as I said parts have become and are an issue thus I sold mine a little while back.  I would strongly suggest if you plan to keep it, to start digging around for parts, new or even used.  Laser pickup/ head mechanism and spindle motor, etc,  are no longer being produced and likely a bunch of other critical pieces as well.

Oh and for me, the slide was the best thing to see along with having the gold puck, it exuded quality!!  Only to had been surpassed by what it replaced in my system, my all time favorite, the Krell MD-10.  Too bad those days of disc players are over.  But hey, now you don’t have to wait for the slide or anything, just click your mouse.  Now that’s way cooler? 🐭


----------



## tabness

Yeah it's a keeper for me. I'll likely pick up a new laser pickup from eBay sometime soon, but my unit was basically barely used and mint to begin with and has been running strong for two years. I'm not even much of a source for good sound guy and I don't have SACDs (yet, need to do research on which are just converted PCM, which are converted PCM with better masters, and which are legit), but it's the statement product thing I like. Only things I could see myself replacing it with is the CDP R10/DAS R10 combo (that with the TA ER1 preamp would be such an amazing R10 setup and then there's the power amps and SS R10/SS GR1 speakers! I have a pair of SS A3 "La Voce" that will have to do for now) or the Qualia Q007 player which is the coolest thing ever in audio as far as I'm concerned.



Also, to somewhat answer your question and get back to Stax, I use the balanced out from the SCD 1 (and yes, I've heard all about how the balanced output stage isn't supposed to be as good, again, in my experience basically all the real sound differences come from the transducers anyway) which makes it so I barely have to crank up the Stax amps (T1S for the 009 was around 4-5, this 353X stays around 3-4, like one or two clicks higher for the Omega). As far as I understand though, if you want to have source controlled volume, there should be no issue with doing what you're planning. The amp will swing as much voltage as needed (and possible). Maybe more of a amp expert can confirm or correct.


----------



## daytrader (Jul 22, 2020)

Thank you for the Stax follow up.

I love the  Qualia Q007 player, it’s very interesting.  I’ve never seen one.

BTW, on the back of the SCD-1 try the [custom] setting position vs the factory set [standard] setting found under the plate.  It extends the freq and I found it will sound better in some cases especially if you are using the preamp TA-E1 and the power amp TA-N1.  Krell could only dream they built theirs as good but I digress.   But even with non Sony pre and amp it will still sound better as long as you have good quality equipment and speakers (that won’t fry).  And you do! Thanks for the trip down Sony memory lane and to everyone else please excuse my indulgence.   Back to Stax....🎧


----------



## jamri

I have spent a significant amount of time searching for relevant answers, and haven't found conclusive feedback besides a few forum responses here and there...
I currently live in Tokyo and own the Koss ESP-95x with a Stax adapter cable on the way. I intend to eventually get L700mkII before I leave Japan so that pairing is my priority (I love the Koss sound with the stock energizer, but it sounds like it may be an objtective improvement with a good Stax amp).

At the same second hand price, would most people go for SRM-353X or SRM-700tA (Japan's SRM-700tII equivalent, I believe)? I read some people saying the 353X is Stax' best SS unit ever, but other says the L700 really opens up with tubes. It seems like the SRM-700tA is the better deal given the 2x MSRP, but I am also looking at it from the perspective that the 353x might be an endgame SS energizer, while the hybrid energizer has more future upgrade paths (ie. KGSS) if I want to chance that dragon. At ~550 USD/each I figure I can make most of my money back on either if I decided to sell back in the US.

Anyways, I was hoping to A/B them, but the COVID situation is getting worse here so it might not be an option for a while.
Sorry, if this has been answered a thousand times, but I can't keep clicking through the various Stax threads.
Thanks!


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 25, 2020)

L700 do not really scale well with better amps. They are really easy to drive. If you want to get something extremely revealing at the level of T2, BHSE or Carbon and keep it budget, you can get speaker amps like old Krell Class A amps(KSA 100-150-200) or Threshold amps with Statis topology and pair it with a Lundahl energizer.(They are better than STAX energizers thanks to the lundahl transformers which are specially made to be used in hi-fi products, Stax SRD boxes tend to bring compromise to sound in trebles) For the price you'd pay for SRM700tA, you can get a way more revealing system with larger soundstage and better dynamics.





This is how the Lundahl energizer looks like from backside. Also If you really feel really lazy to go to kitchen and cook something, you can simply use your class A amps to make yourself delicious omelette.




cooking with style. While even the best direct drive amps can deliver 20-22mA at most, lundahl trafos + speaker amps can deliver up to 45mA power output. (Not saying it's necessary, just pointing out how powerful this system can get). These amps sound really good too.


----------



## tabness (Jul 25, 2020)

If you have the chance to audition go for it! Of course stay safe with the difficulties due to coronavirus.

You know how audio forums are, a bunch of differing impressions and all that. With Stax being basically impossible to audition where I am, it's all I have to go on, but if I had an audition option, then yeah, I wouldn't really bother following this thread much lol

For what little it's worth, I currently have both the 353X and T1S (similar if less powerful circuit to the 007tA) and based on my impressions there really isn't a whole lot of difference between them, maybe (and just maybe too small to call definitely of if I'm just listening differently at that time), a slight emphasis on midbass and lower midrange on the T1S (but I haven't bothered to A/B them listening to sine waves and whatever yet). The biggest difference is that the 353X has more power (but that would be lessened with the 007tA).

The 353X is praised by some for its linearity (don't know it's ever been actually measured probably not though I'm assuming this is based on listening/modelling the schematic) so if you just want a linear amp, this seems to be a good option, if you want a more colored amp then other Stax amps supposedly provide that option. My experience with auditioning speakers and amps has firmly been they're basically almost an afterthought compared to the transducers in terms of sound even when they're designed to be colored. Of course, just for transparency, likely a majority of people here will tell you otherwise and say amp is more important with Stax and all that.

For me, while I eventually still want a T1S with a bronze faceplate to match my Omega (it is the amp they showcased with the Omega way back in 1993 on the documentation) as well as to provide a Normal Bias option since I'm sort of interested in the original Lambda, I've put my current T1S up for sale, as the 353X is smaller and runs less hot and matches nicer with my other stuff.


----------



## pofofo

My Stax SR-Λ started to get some distortion if I move the cable. Its only audible at low volume, if I crank it up I cant hear it, but I guess its there. I think its just where the 6 pin connector is. Is there any solution to this, other than to change the whole cable?


----------



## ahmedie

jamri said:


> ....I intend to eventually get L700mkII before I leave Japan so that pairing is my priority...


you should buy L700 and not L700MkII, mk2 sound like focal clear but with less bass...


----------



## jamri

Thank you for the replies!

Unfortunately, while i can audition Stax locally, e-Earphone always has music playing so listening to open backs is difficult. Last time I visited, I auditioned an L500 and SR-007 on a SRM-D50 and I believe a T8000 for about 30-40 minutes... I did not realize how loud I was listening until after. I preferred the L500 sound.
Based on tabness' reply, the differences might be subtle enough that auditioning the 006tA/007tA/353X side by side might not really help much.

I am leaning toward the 353X if I can't compare in person. I also considered the Woo WEE (I have a TEAC A-H01 DAC/Speaker Amp... very similar to the one Zeos paired with rave reviews - I take his videos with a grain of salt though). There is currently a long waiting period for the Woo WEE, and it costs about the same as the 353X. The Lundahl looks awesome, but it is outside my price range (and I would prefer having dual Pro outputs). IFI's energizer looks pretty cool, but also expensive.

That's interesting, ahmedie, most of what i read make it sound like the L700mkII is a solid improvement over the L700... I will definitely be listening before buying,


----------



## Tugbars

Woo WEE is damaging headphones. Their energizers lack ballast resistors and potentially your headphones might get damaged.


----------



## Mach3

Tugbars said:


> Woo WEE is damaging headphones. Their energizers lack ballast resistors and potentially your headphones might get damaged.


Shhh.... Now, now, there no need to spread the facts around. People will generally find out one way or another.


----------



## jamri

I did read about that, but it didn't seem very conclusive... I think Woo's response was that they have never had a claim for damaged earspeakers because of this? Is Woo not a reputable company?


----------



## KDS315

Well, just wanted to show here what Dominik Stritt ("firschi") has done to my trusted SRM-T1 I had since quite a few years.

Had my STAX SRM-T1 serviced and modified using Constant Current Sources (CCS) instead of anode resistors and changed the original  6CG7/6FQ7 tubes to matched highvoltage and high-power ECC99 dual triode GOLD tubes from JJ Electronics, Slovakia.

The result is simply amazing, much clearer sound, no peaks clipping, much more available "sound voltage" - I'm really hooked on listening ... 

STAX SRM-T1 before (btw. it still worked flawlessly in this condition):




STAX SRM-T1 after modification and service (looks like new! Cleaner sound, much more powerful):



(both images: Dominik Stritt)


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## jamri

^ looks brand new!

I am considering buying the below upgraded SRM-T1 recommended by admedie (for ESP-95x and eventually a Lambda), can anyone comment on these modifications? The PIO coupling caps look pretty close to the tubes compared to stock.. they're labeled -40 to +85 deg C and towards the socket end so should be fine?

*The main modification items are as follows ↓
 ① Circuit modification to the company's SRM-600 LTD (including changing the vacuum tube to Czech JJ ECC99 etc.)
② Smoothing capacitor large capacity (Philips BC 4)
③ Coupling capacitor upgrade (Denmark Jensen oil capacitor 2 this)
④ bias circuit capacitor upgrade (Sprague-made film capacitor 4)
 ⑤ large power resistor upgrade (Panasonic metal oxide film resistors 8) *

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/d431573263 (buy now price is about 750 USD)

Thanks!


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## fiiom11pro

KDS315 said:


> Well, just wanted to show here what Dominik Stritt ("firschi") has done to my trusted SRM-T1 I had since quite a few years.
> 
> Had my STAX SRM-T1 serviced and modified using Constant Current Sources (CCS) instead of anode resistors and changed the original  6CG7/6FQ7 tubes to matched highvoltage and high-power ECC99 dual triode GOLD tubes from JJ Electronics, Slovakia.
> 
> ...



how much did it cost you?


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## KDS315

Ask Stritt-Audio directly please! He offers three packages: 1) complete check and service (caps replacement, saftely resistors etc.), 2) CCS mod, 3) ECC99 mod. And a pckage deal consisting of all three.


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## JimL11 (Jul 28, 2020)

jamri said:


> ^ looks brand new!
> 
> I am considering buying the below upgraded SRM-T1 recommended by admedie (for ESP-95x and eventually a Lambda), can anyone comment on these modifications? The PIO coupling caps look pretty close to the tubes compared to stock.. they're labeled -40 to +85 deg C and towards the socket end so should be fine?
> 
> ...



Of these mods:

1) changing the power resistors and vacuum tubes to ECC99 should make a minor improvement in current drive (about 10% based on the SRM-600LTD using 60 kilohm output resistors vs. 66k for the T1 and its variants.
2) Increasing the power supply caps should help a bit.
3) I don't understand the use of coupling capacitors at all since the T1 (and SRM-600) are direct coupled from input to output and do not need coupling capacitors. And anyway the outputs are balanced, which means if they are coupling to the outputs there should be 4 of them, not just 2. Unless they are being used as bypass caps across the power supply, in which case they may or may not make a difference in the sound, for a fairly significant amount of money.
4) The bias cap upgrade really shouldn't make any difference in sound, and in fact using larger caps is NOT beneficial, as the stock caps are big enough to provide a smooth bias voltage while limiting the amount of current that can be dumped into the diaphragm should things go wrong.
5) Finally, if you want to really boost the effective power output of the amp circuit, the use of CCS will more than double the effective output power since it removes the current wastage inherent in output plate resistors, as opposed to a mere 10% improvement by changing to lower value plate resistors per the stock 600LTD circuit. Of course I'm biased since I published the mod, but the objective results bear me out. You can combine the change in tube to ECC99 with the CCS mod, or stick with the original 6CG7. I haven't listened to the ECC99 in this circuit so have no opinion, although others have commented favorably on this.


----------



## Mach3

$750 for a modded T1 to become a 600. You can get 600 for a lot less then that, then add the CSS mod.


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## JimL11

Mach3 said:


> $750 for a modded T1 to become a 600. You can get 600 for a lot less then that, then add the CSS mod.




Maybe in Australia, but the 600LTD's I have seen listed on eBay start at over $1000US, usually a few hundred dollars more.Remember they were only made for a couple years, the LTD stands for limited. The 006T, which uses the same tubes as the T1, often goes for around $700US.


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## Moak

Mach3 said:


> $750 for a modded T1 to become a 600. You can get 600 for a lot less then that, then add the CSS mod.


What does the CSS mod do?
“Had my STAX SRM-T1 serviced and modified using Constant Current Sources (CCS) instead of anode resistors...”
Does it improve a lot and is it recommended?  Or can I destroy my 600LTD with it?


----------



## daytrader

Or I’d suggest a used 007tll for way less than $1000 which results in a newer more updated version of the T1.


----------



## Moak

JimL11 said:


> Maybe in Australia, but the 600LTD's I have seen listed on eBay start at over $1000US, usually a few hundred dollars more.Remember they were only made for a couple years, the LTD stands for limited. The 006T, which uses the same tubes as the T1, often goes for around $700US.


If you “hold open your eyes” and have luck you could get the 600LTD for $850 in Europe.


----------



## jamri

Thanks JimL11 and everyone for the feedback. "coupling caps" may have been lost in translation from Japanese... They're the two large caps between the tubes in the photos... Maybe coupled because they are zip tied together?
Sounds like these mods are not well established, even if the builder is reputable. I think I'm going to play it safe and get a 353x for now (looks like the 600tA and 700tA are both no longer available). I can take advantage of the XLR inputs too


----------



## Mach3

I think COVID might be driving the prices up on the SRM-600. You are correct @JimL11 
When I purchased mine earlier last year from yahoo Japan. 
There was 2 that was listed for sale for like at least 4-5 month with no interest.


----------



## JimL11

Monolaf said:


> What does the CSS mod do?
> “Had my STAX SRM-T1 serviced and modified using Constant Current Sources (CCS) instead of anode resistors...”
> Does it improve a lot and is it recommended?  Or can I destroy my 600LTD with it?



The constant current load mod replaces the output plate resistors with a small circuit. Constant current means that the current through that circuit doesn't change with voltage changes - think of them as very high resistance resistors - over 100 megohms. With plate resistors, every time the signal voltage changes, the signal current in the resistors changes by Ohms law, V = I*R. What this means is that the majority of the signal current is burned up as heat in the plate resistor, leaving less than half of the signal current available to drive the headphones. The CCS mod basically eliminates that signal current wastage, more than doubling the amount of current available to drive the headphones (some of the signal current is used up in the feedback resistors). The sonic results are improved bass response and high frequency response, with less distortion. You can also measure the results in the form of increased peak voltages.

The Stax solid state amps all have CCS loads in their output stages, but their power supply voltages are very similar to the tube output amps, as is the amount of standing current in the output stages.. The result is that whereas the T1, 006T and 007T are specified at a maximum output of 340VRMS at 1 kHz, the solid state amps are specified as a maximum output of 450VRMS at 1 kHz. The difference is due, almost completely, to the difference between using a resistor and a constant current device as the load for the output devices.


----------



## kevin gilmore

3) Coupling capacitor upgrade

This is a complete waste of money. Those are not coupling caps, they are power supply caps and
the film caps that were in there is just fine.


----------



## Moak

JimL11 said:


> The constant current load mod replaces the output plate resistors with a small circuit. Constant current means that the current through that circuit doesn't change with voltage changes - think of them as very high resistance resistors - over 100 megohms. With plate resistors, every time the signal voltage changes, the signal current in the resistors changes by Ohms law, V = I*R. What this means is that the majority of the signal current is burned up as heat in the plate resistor, leaving less than half of the signal current available to drive the headphones. The CCS mod basically eliminates that signal current wastage, more than doubling the amount of current available to drive the headphones (some of the signal current is used up in the feedback resistors). The sonic results are improved bass response and high frequency response, with less distortion. You can also measure the results in the form of increased peak voltages.
> 
> The Stax solid state amps all have CCS loads in their output stages, but their power supply voltages are very similar to the tube output amps, as is the amount of standing current in the output stages.. The result is that whereas the T1, 006T and 007T are specified at a maximum output of 340VRMS at 1 kHz, the solid state amps are specified as a maximum output of 450VRMS at 1 kHz. The difference is due, almost completely, to the difference between using a resistor and a constant current device as the load for the output devices.


Ah, ok, thank you.
Make it sense to do it with the 600LTD or is it dangerous?


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## JimL11

Monolaf said:


> Ah, ok, thank you.
> Make it sense to do it with the 600LTD or is it dangerous?



Sure, it makes sense. The current should be adjusted up a bit. to around 5.8 mA per current load to match the standing current from the plate resistors. It will void your warranty, but the unit is probably out of warranty at this point anyway. The basic procedure is the same as described in the AudioXpress article from July, 2017, back issues should be available from the AudioXpress website.


----------



## Deolum

What do you guys think about crinacles Stax rating? I think all of his headphone and IEM ratings are on point but seems like he tested all Stax, including the 009 and 007, on a 353x amp. May that explain the low ranking? They all got downranked because of their tuning though, not sure if another amp would fix that.


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## Tugbars (Aug 1, 2020)

Crinacle's opinions are just his subjective opinions. I have Neumann KH310's and KH810 DSP subwoofer. I used my setup to compare neutrality of the headphones I have and my friends have. I did it in a completely unscientific way, I just trusted my ears. So this is just my opinion and nothing more:  If i would ignore 2-4khz recession in omegas, they are the most neutral sounding headphones I've ever listened to. Compared to Hifiman or Abyss products, Stax is free of colorations in sound. If you are looking for reference sound, Stax is good; if you are looking for hi-fi colorations, Stax might not be the best. They may sound a bit joyless and boring to people who wants to "enjoy" the sound rather than hearing what's the microphone is picking in the recording session.

I hereby share measurements of my setup in free field:






also it's surprising, how similar port modded 007 sub-bass sounds to Kh810 subwoofer even though it's a dynamic driver.

talking about 353x, it's really a neutral sounding detailed amp but it has barely enough power for 009 and lacks power to drive 007. 353X can be bottlenecking what these headphones can do.

final note: Yes, 007 sounds a bit warm, 009 sounds a bit anemic and it doesn't "rumble". Stax headphones are ONLY relatively to other headphones, sound "neutral" to my ears.


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## T3RIAD (Aug 1, 2020)

Deolum said:


> What do you guys think about crinacles Stax rating? I think all of his headphone and IEM ratings are on point but seems like he tested all Stax, including the 009 and 007, on a 353x amp. May that explain the low ranking? They all got downranked because of their tuning though, not sure if another amp would fix that.



Well, he ranked the Sr-007 fourth and the Sr-009 ninth. Not exactly terrible results. And he gave both the highest possible ranking, S+, for technical performance.

E-stats have a lack of impact that's very palpable in certain types of music. It's a light and airy sound. For detail they can't be beat, but some people care more about tonality than detail.

I doubt it's the amp because he ranked the Sr-007 the highest, even though those are commonly regarded as the hardest to drive. Putting the Sr-007 - the warmest sounding Stax - first implies that crinacle just doesn't prefer the e-stat thinness.


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## Deolum

T3RIAD said:


> Well, he ranked the Sr-007 third and the Sr-009 ninth. Not exactly terrible results. And he gave both the highest possible ranking, S+, for technical performance.
> 
> E-stats have a lack of impact that's very palpable in certain types of music. It's a light and airy sound. For detail they can't be beat, but some people care more about tonality than detail.
> 
> I doubt it's the amp because he ranked the Sr-007 the highest, even though those are commonly regarded as the hardest to drive. Putting the Sr-007 - the warmest sounding Stax - first implies that crinacle just doesn't prefer the e-stat thinness.


Would love to see a Hifiman or Dan Clark estat ranked as comparison.


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## Mach3

I wouldn't take his review seriously.
I mean come on, he gave a $4k Utopia 3 stars for value for money.
Secondly, driving the 007 with a 353x is like pitting a 18 year old inexperience driver behind the wheel of a F1 and expecting to get good lap time.


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## T3RIAD

Mach3 said:


> I wouldn't take his review seriously.
> I mean come on, he gave a $4k Utopia 3 stars for value for money.
> Secondly, driving the 007 with a 353x is like pitting a 18 year old inexperience driver behind the wheel of a F1 and expecting to get good lap time.



To be fair, adding something like a Carbon would have increased the price of the combo to almost twice the most expensive item on the list.


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## Mach3

Yes I understand that, but that's like he used a O2 amp to do the review on the Utopia.
I don't agree that most HP over $1000 are great value let alone $4000 pair of headphones.


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## T3RIAD

Mach3 said:


> Yes I understand that, but that's like he used a O2 amp to do the review on the Utopia.



I don't think that would sound as bad as you think. Utopia is easy to drive.



> I don't agree that most HP over $1000 are great value let alone $4000 pair of headphones.



Yeah, I agree it's strange he gave three value stars to the Utopia.


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## 491838

Do you think the L500 with an entry level energizer would be a good start for an e-stat set-up, to see what they're about? I'm thinking about selling my HD800 since they sound kinda grainy even with EQ. I'm looking for something that sounds softer in the treble but maintains a good level of detail too.


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## armani006

My 006t amplifier was upgraded using a Dominic's CCS board. The board was purchased from him and simply installed.

I note as a minus of the upgrade - High frequencies have become sharper. In all levels, both on instruments and on slaps, crackles and hissing sounds.
When playing the guitar in instrumental music, the blow with nails on the strings became very sharp, somehow unnatural, just like the blow of plastic nails on plastic strings. The cymbals and ringing of the triangle also became sharper and more accented. Brass high-frequency sounds too sharper. It gets tiresome with long listening. It is comfortable to listen only quietly.
In the middle frequencies, everything is different. As a plus of the upgrade, the voice has become more accented. Compositions with good vocal emphasis, it became more vivid, expressed, that is feminine that masculine. The voice became intimate, sounding close to the listener. Very good effect.

Big improvement is bass, it became more defined, more accented. There was no more weight or amplitude in it, it just became clear, faceted, more picked.

The stage has become a little wider, more volume is felt in the sound. Instrument locations are more familiar.
In general, a characteristic digital signature appeared in the sound. The tube sounding began to wilt less. The original amp sounds softer, warmer and just more veiled. With the upgrade, everything began to sound sharper and digital. For those who power the amplifier from a good DAC without sharpness
that sound would probably be a good combination. But if you have a sharp Delta-Sigma chip in sound and you need to soften it, then it probably won't work.
Probably the modernized amplifier is closer to a transistor one, although it remains a tube amplifier in fact.

First this modded AMP was tested with Audio-GD NFB28 DAC with Saber 9018, now I have R2R Ares II DAC. It would fit this amplifier better than sigma delta. Now the sound more natural and less sibilant. 

Sound goes from PC to DAC via optics or usb, 192 / 24bit, Neotech Up-OCC XLR copper interconnect cables.
Headphones SR-L500 + Custom mode leatehr Pads 2.5 cm thickness.


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## mnemonix (Aug 2, 2020)

Dealux said:


> Do you think the L500 with an entry level energizer would be a good start for an e-stat set-up, to see what they're about? I'm thinking about selling my HD800 since they sound kinda grainy even with EQ. I'm looking for something that sounds softer in the treble but maintains a good level of detail too.



I believe the L500 is identical to the L300 except it has thicker pads and the L500 Mk2 has detachable cables and metal yokes on the headband instead of plastic. At over $200 more, you don't seem to get much more for your money so if you're on a budget I'd suggest the L300 + SRM-252 combo which for Stax is very good value and will give you a taste of electrostatics. If you want better (though that is subjective) sound quality jump up to the L700 which has better drivers, but stick with the entry level SRM-252 energiser to keep costs down for now. Don't believe the hype, the L series are easy to drive and the entry level, solid state Stax energiser is a decent design.

I am in a similar position to you but have been researching for several months now so the above is distilled from every review, forum thread and specification I have been able to read. Unless someone can enlighten me, I don't  understand the point of the L500.


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## armani006

mnemonix said:


> I believe the L500 is identical to the L300 except it has thicker pads and the L500 Mk2 has detachable cables and metal yokes on the headband instead of plastic. At twice the price you don't seem to get much more for your money so if you're on a budget I'd suggest the L300 + SRM-252 combo which for Stax is very good value and will give you a taste of electrostatics. If you want better (though that is subjective) sound quality jump up to the L700 which has better drivers, but stick with the entry level SRM-252 energiser to keep costs down for now. Don't believe the hype, the L series are easy to drive and the entry level, solid state Stax energiser is a decent design.
> 
> I am in a similar position to you but have been researching for several months now so the above is distilled from every review, forum thread and specification I have been able to read.



I think L500 + custom pads are the best variant. L700 much more expensive than L700. I have L500 and modded them with 50 Euro pads and got much more bass response as L700 can give. I have also new L500 mk2 on second hand market.


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## mnemonix

armani006 said:


> I think L500 + custom pads are the best variant. L700 much more expensive than L700. I have L500 and modded them with 50 Euro pads and got much more bass response as L700 can give. I have also new L500 mk2 on second hand market.



But surely an L500 + custom pads is exactly the same thing as an L300 with custom pads since I thought the pads were the only difference in the first place???


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## mnemonix

armani006 said:


> I have also new L500 mk2 on second hand market.



Also curious why you're not keeping the Mk2? The headband yokes are a known weak point of this series so it would seem they are an improvement in this respect?


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## Hubert481

armani006 said:


> I think L500 + custom pads are the best variant. L700 much more expensive than L700. I have L500 and modded them with 50 Euro pads and got much more bass response as L700 can give. I have also new L500 mk2 on second hand market.


Which pads?
do you have a link therfore?


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## daytrader (Aug 2, 2020)

mnemonix said:


> I believe the L500 is identical to the L300 except it has thicker pads and the L500 Mk2 has detachable cables and metal yokes on the headband instead of plastic. At over $200 more, you don't seem to get much more for your money so if you're on a budget I'd suggest the L300 + SRM-252 combo which for Stax is very good value and will give you a taste of electrostatics. If you want better (though that is subjective) sound quality jump up to the L700 which has better drivers, but stick with the entry level SRM-252 energiser to keep costs down for now. Don't believe the hype, the L series are easy to drive and the entry level, solid state Stax energiser is a decent design.
> 
> I am in a similar position to you but have been researching for several months now so the above is distilled from every review, forum thread and specification I have been able to read. Unless someone can enlighten me, I don't  understand the point of the L500.


Your thoughts on how far up the energizer model tree you recommend for using with the L700s before diminishing returns kick in?  In other words the best pairing until you get to the point of the energizer superseding the ability of the ear speaker.


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## armani006 (Aug 2, 2020)

mnemonix said:


> Also curious why you're not keeping the Mk2? The headband yokes are a known weak point of this series so it would seem they are an improvement in this respect?


The headband yokes are the same as on mk1. Only different is detachable cable.



Hubert481 said:


> Which pads?
> do you have a link therfore?


Vesper Audio. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vesper-audio-custom-earpads-impressions-thread.864077/post-15752995

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vesper-audio-custom-earpads-impressions-thread.864077/post-15524690


----------



## Tugbars

Sr303/404s are significantly better than L300/L500. Unfortunately new L series are underwhelming, L700 is kinda fine but for that price I'd rather get myself ES labs ES-1A.


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## armani006

Tugbars said:


> Sr303/404s are significantly better than L300/L500. Unfortunately new L series are underwhelming, L700 is kinda fine but for that price I'd rather get myself ES labs ES-1A.


I've tried  Sr303/404s,  don't think they are better


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## mnemonix (Aug 3, 2020)

daytrader said:


> Your thoughts on how far up the energizer model tree you recommend for using with the L700s before diminishing returns kick in?  In other words the best pairing until you get to the point of the energizer superseding the ability of the ear speaker.



The SRM-353 is the next solid state amp up above the entry level  SRM-252 and many have said, here and elsewhere, that it's one of the best solid state amps Stax have ever made. At $950 even that is not cheap and your diminishing returns may be different to mine given the largely subjective nature of audible improvements.

As I said, I am still looking, and cannot comment from personal experience on other offerings, but be aware of the cottage industry and owners club who would consider you not worthy until you've spent thousands on a third party amp or modified a vintage Stax tube model to make it work properly.


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## mnemonix (Aug 3, 2020)

armani006 said:


> The headband yokes are the same as on mk1. Only different is detachable cable.



https://stax-international.com/products/sr-l500-mk2/

_"The MK2 models have adopted the cable-exchangeable structure as well as the *case holder made from aluminum *"_

By yoke I meant the u-shaped parts either side holding the cups, apologies if this confused the issue, but Stax clearly state they are aluminium and this difference from the old model is visible in the photos too.


----------



## armani006

mnemonix said:


> By yoke I meant the u-shaped parts either side holding the cups, apologies if this confused the issue, but Stax clearly state they are aluminium and this difference from the old model is visible in the photos too.


I understand this, but my L500 mk1 have also metal u-shaped parts.


----------



## Mach3

Certain version shipped to euro came with the same metal yoke as the SR-507. The rest of the world got the crappy plastic one. The new Mk2 L500 & L700 came with a new metal angled yoke.


----------



## Mach3

Here this should clear up all the confusion.
All the yoke are inter changable. I prefer the metal yoke as they more durable than the plastic one.

Stax SR-L700 (Plastic Yoke)





Stax SR-L700 Pro (Metal Yoke / Straight)





Stax SR-L700 Mk2 (Metal Yoke / Non Straight at the end)


----------



## klyrish

I've tried Googling and searching this thread and Head-Fi as a whole and just cannot seem to find any concrete information about amping Stax headphones so I apologize if this is well-treaded information. 

For a little background: I got into the estat world a couple months back with the Koss ESP/95X from Drop and absolutely LOVE it. Using the oratory1990 Harmon target parametric EQ settings in Roon really made these come to life and then purchasing a Stax SRM-353X amp and the converter cable from Fong Audio took them to a whole new level.

I took it one step further by adding my GS-X mini to chain as a preamp and I'm completely blown away by how the ESP/95X sound now. Bass is so tight and slams almost as hard as my HD800 did (I know they're not known for having a lot of bass but they do slam reasonably hard when EQ'd and amped appropriately) and the entire presentation feels tighter, faster, and more engaging. I use the GS-X mini in high-gain mode and with the ESP/95X, I have the 353X's volume turned up all the way and the GS-X mini is used on the 4th or 5th notch (about 8-9 o'clock) depending on the music and that is LOUD.

I'm considering the L300 Limited Edition and the SR-007 MK2.9. I've read a lot about both and understand that the SR-007 is very difficult to drive with most people recommending a KGSShv Carbon to properly drive them but I don't have an extra $4600+ for another amp. So I'm curious...if I'm preamping with the GS-X mini into the 353X, would that make up for the fact the 353X is underpowered/less-than-ideal for driving the SR-007 by itself? From what I understand, the jump between the L700 and SR-007 is massive and noticeable so I'd hate to get the L300 Limited and then constantly wonder what I'm missing with the SR-007 but also don't want to spend the money on the SR-007 if they're going to be pretty disappointing without a Carbon or Carbon-equivalent amp.


----------



## tumpux

Don't worry. 
Get the 007..
rearrange your priorities in life, then get a Carbon. 
You can do it son.


----------



## 491838

I'm wondering if e-stats can do a better job in the treble than your average planars and the HD800. I find that in most over-ear headphones so far, they seem to have a way of rendering instruments with varying degrees of detail but the clarity isn't the best. A lot of instruments and small details sound out of focus in a way. Even my ER4 with their laid back treble do a better job of this but at the cost of sounding more distant due to the rolled off/relaxed treble. In fact I would say the ER4 has the best treble clarity overall if you disregard detail differences. Detail is kinda overrated if the headphone can't make a cymbal sound like a cymbal or any other instrument sound like it's actually there. And no, EQ cannot achieve that kind of clarity that I know is possible but isn't readily available on most headphones.


----------



## armani006

Dealux said:


> I'm wondering if e-stats can do a better job


Yes,  e-stats can do a better job in the treble than your average planars and the HD800


----------



## Mach3

tumpux said:


> Don't worry.
> Get the 007..
> rearrange your priorities in life, then get a Carbon.
> You can do it son.


LOL that the advice you give to someone when they learning how to swim.
"Then off you go" (Physically pushing them into the deep end of the pool)

Can't agree more though, grab the SR-007 port mod them then Carbon. Forced right to the top of the summit.


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## Tugbars (Aug 4, 2020)

Dealux said:


> I'm wondering if e-stats can do a better job in the treble than your average planars and the HD800. I find that in most over-ear headphones so far, they seem to have a way of rendering instruments with varying degrees of detail but the clarity isn't the best. A lot of instruments and small details sound out of focus in a way. Even my ER4 with their laid back treble do a better job of this but at the cost of sounding more distant due to the rolled off/relaxed treble. In fact I would say the ER4 has the best treble clarity overall if you disregard detail differences. Detail is kinda overrated if the headphone can't make a cymbal sound like a cymbal or any other instrument sound like it's actually there. And no, EQ cannot achieve that kind of clarity that I know is possible but isn't readily available on most headphones.



for dynamic drivers, delivering flat response in high frequencies is hard. At bass, mids, upper midrange most dynamic drivers move like a piston. In high frequencies, the cone of the driver starts to flex, leading to resonances. Check FR of famous expensive dynamic headphones, most of them roll off after 9khz or start getting out of control around there. When the wavelength of the sound is smaller than the cone width,  breakup modes start getting into play.

A dynamic drivers has to be very stiff and actually as small as possible (in ideal world) to overcome this problem.(using very small drivers and/or very stiff drivers bring other challenges to designing a full range driver) Some drivers instead of preventing it, utilize it: BMR drivers.

I'm really no expert in this topic, so I might be wrong in some parts. If you want to know more, search more about "cone breakup", breakup modes, internal modes of drivers etc.

Round shaped electrostatic drivers, as far as i know, have the least internal modes(among other electrostatic drivers), so they are capable of being almost flat until 20khz. SR007 mk2.5/2.9 and SR009S measurements reflect that too.

In short, electrostats are really good at high trebles.


----------



## arnaud

Tugbars said:


> Sr303/404s are significantly better than L300/L500. Unfortunately new L series are underwhelming, L700 is kinda fine but for that price I'd rather get myself ES labs ES-1A.



To each his own I think as, for me, the L series are the first lambda in a while that don't present that etch sound in a noticeable manner and, at launch, I felt the L700 was a good deal considering mild amplification requirements in a world of 1.5k+ USD dynamic and planar headphones. I've never owned 1 though so this is short term impression only.



Tugbars said:


> for dynamic drivers, delivering flat response in high frequencies is hard. At bass, mids, upper midrange most dynamic drivers move like a piston. In high frequencies, the cone of the driver starts to flex, leading to resonances. Check FR of famous expensive dynamic headphones, most of them roll off after 9khz or start getting out of control around there. When the wavelength of the sound is smaller than the cone width,  breakup modes start getting into play.
> 
> A dynamic drivers has to be very stiff and actually as small as possible (in ideal world) to overcome this problem.(using very small drivers and/or very stiff drivers bring other challenges to designing a full range driver) Some drivers instead of preventing it, utilize it: BMR drivers.
> 
> ...



I feel the urge to clarify:
1. Break-up cone modes have nothing to do with acoustic wavelength and purely a result of cone geometry and material
2. The matching of acoustic wavelength at the break-up frequency may be important as it affects how well vibration couples into the surrounding fluid (and especially radiate efficiently into the far field, for instance when installing the driver into a baffle hence use it as a tweeter...)
3. Having said that, it's not necessarily that simple for headphones where you're in very near field of the driver + the entrapped air acting as a spring/damper (porous earpad, ventilation etc) over large portion of the audio range
4. The shape of the dome / diaphragm does not change the number of modes for the most part (the surface area does on the other hand)
5. Electrostatic drivers use tensioned membrane which basically acts as a drum skin (main mode in free air typically in 100Hz-150Hz range, shifting done to 50-100Hz range once acoustically loaded by the sealed or slightly vented earpad cavity). As a result, these membranes have zillions of modes over the audio range but only some of the efficiently couple to the surrounding fluid (concentric modes in circular shape membrane for instance)
6. For estat drivers though, these membrane resonances are mitigated by a high damping (thin membrane feels damping from anything around it including viscous damping through the stator holes, dust screens etc) and uniform excitation over the whole surface

Now, I may also be wrong in some parts but I hope the next smart guy can correct me in line  

arnaud


----------



## Tugbars

> 4. The shape of the dome / diaphragm does not change the number of modes for the most part (the surface area does on the other hand)



I was talking about electrostatic drivers there. From what I know, the shape of the driver is related to what modes the driver will have. Round shaped drivers tend to sound dark around 2-4khz, but at treble range they really shine. Elliptic shaped drivers find a middle point between linearity and treble performance.(HE-1)

Thanks for the clarifications overall. : )


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## pofofo

Does anybody know where I can get a male Normal Bias (6 pin) plug that can be soldered on?


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## BenF

klyrish said:


> I've tried Googling and searching this thread and Head-Fi as a whole and just cannot seem to find any concrete information about amping Stax headphones so I apologize if this is well-treaded information.
> 
> For a little background: I got into the estat world a couple months back with the Koss ESP/95X from Drop and absolutely LOVE it. Using the oratory1990 Harmon target parametric EQ settings in Roon really made these come to life and then purchasing a Stax SRM-353X amp and the converter cable from Fong Audio took them to a whole new level.
> 
> ...



I own L300LE and L700, and auditioned 007 - all are huge disappointments to me.
The 007 was auditioned on the latest Blue Hawaii SE at Headamp - so lack of power is not the issue.
Neither of these three could give me 1/10 of pleasure that L300 gave me - it has the largest "wow" factor, that can only be matched by 009.
The only two clear upgrades from L300 are Stax 009 and Takstar Pro 82 (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tak...iew-impressions-and-discussion-thread.849965/)

I strongly advise not to buy  any of these Staxes without auditioning them on the exact chain you will use.


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## 491838

BenF said:


> I own L300LE and L700, and auditioned 007 - all are huge disappointments to me.


What does that mean?


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## daytrader

pofofo said:


> Does anybody know where I can get a male Normal Bias (6 pin) plug that can be soldered on?


Ive seen these six pins offered on eBay from time to time.  Good luck.


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## Tugbars (Aug 5, 2020)

BenF said:


> I own L300LE and L700, and auditioned 007 - all are huge disappointments to me.
> The 007 was auditioned on the latest Blue Hawaii SE at Headamp - so lack of power is not the issue.
> Neither of these three could give me 1/10 of pleasure that L300 gave me - it has the largest "wow" factor, that can only be matched by 009.
> The only two clear upgrades from L300 are Stax 009 and Takstar Pro 82 (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tak...iew-impressions-and-discussion-thread.849965/)
> ...



You would really love SR507 then. SR507 is like L300 on steroids. When I am in the mood to enjoy headphones which sound like as if i made someone angry and yelling to my face from 2cm distance, I switch to those. This is my pair, the build quality on SR507 is really amazing:




I believe dark sounding headphones may sound dull and lifeless if you don't spend quite a lot of time with them. After switching from listening to my SR507s(or L300) to 007, I always find 007 sound too dark and dull. Then my ears get used to it, When i switch back to 507s, I can't like them anymore and actually makes me want to come here and write huge paragraphs on how much they suck.(technically too, even with SR507 which is the most detailed sounding lambda I've listened so far) Of course I'd never do that. This might not be the case with everyone of course.


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## BenF

Tugbars said:


> You would really love SR507 then. SR507 is like L300 on steroids. When I am in the mood to enjoy headphones which sound like as if i made someone angry and yelling to my face from 2cm distance, I switch to those. This is my pair, the build quality on SR507 is really amazing:



Saying that some headphone is like L300 on steroids, is like saying than someone is crazier that Dennis Rodman   
L300 is already hopped-up on steroids.



Tugbars said:


> I believe dark sounding headphones may sound dull and lifeless if you don't spend quite a lot of time with them. After switching from listening to my SR507s(or L300) to 007, I always find 007 sound too dark and dull. Then my ears get used to it, When i switch back to 507s, I can't like them anymore and actually makes me want to come here and write huge paragraphs on how much they suck.(technically too, even with SR507 which is the most detailed sounding lambda I've listened so far) Of course I'd never do that. This might not be the case with everyone of course.


Sure, we can get used to any sound signature - we all used to listen to cheap headphones and still enjoyed music somehow...
But paying 007 prices for this kind of veiled, dark sound just doesn't make sense to me.
All the best headphones I heard sound natural, not "dark" or "bright" - 009, Abyss, Utopia.


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## BenF

Dealux said:


> What does that mean?


They don't sound like "proper" electrostats to me, lack the resolution and natural timbre.


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## GarageBoy

pofofo said:


> Does anybody know where I can get a male Normal Bias (6 pin) plug that can be soldered on?


Maybe mjolnir audio has one

How does the sound of the l300 and l700 differ? What about the l300 makes you like it more BenF?


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## BenF

GarageBoy said:


> Maybe mjolnir audio has one
> 
> How does the sound of the l300 and l700 differ? What about the l300 makes you like it more BenF?



L300 is one the most transparent  headphones I ever heard, on par with 009.
It sounds very natural, and has a huuuuuuuuuuuuge soundstage - thanks to its perfect treble, which provides a lot of "brilliance" to the sound, while staying shy of introducing sibilance. It has a perfect timbre (especially in female vocals), and can create an illusion of listening to the actual concert, not a reproduciton of recorded music.
It's only con is the poor bass quantity/quality.

L700 sounds a lot darker, with smaller soundstage, not transparent at all - the sound is colored.

Here are my comparisons of L700 and L300 with L1000 (L300 + L700 pads):
*L700 with L700 pads* -  Warm sounding - tonality is too sweet, small soundstage, excellent bass. Boring sounding.
                                      L1000 is superior in everything but the bass - L700 has thicker bass with better decay

*L700 with L500 pads* - Soundstage increases (still smaller than L1000), mids are not as warm, more clarity. 
                                     Bass quality is degraded to somewhere between L300 and L1000 levels. L1000 is clearly superior in everything

*L700 with L300 pads *- Sounds much better when the headband is fully opened (with less pressure), especially the bass.
                                     Soundstage increases (equal to L1000), clarity is as good as L1000. Tonality is a bit sweeter than L1000 - I like it, it's perfect (same as L300?). 
                                     No warm veil whatsoever.
                                     Bass - surprisingly good, at or slightly below L1000 level .                            
                                     Comfort - not great, ears are touching the protective layer, especially when the headband is in the closed position (not recommended anyway).

*L300 with L300 pads* - Amazing soundstage and clarity, largest wow factor.
                                     Bass is underwhelming in both quality and quantity. Too thin with little decay.

*L300 with L500 pads* - Soundstage is increased over L1000, so is the clarity. Not as warm as L1000.
                                     Bass quality is about as good as L1000


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## Tugbars (Aug 5, 2020)

Are we listening to same headphones? I have L300 and it has one of the tiniest soundstages I've ever experienced with any type of headphones. L300 soundstage has almost no width and on top of that, that soundstage is not even a tall soundstage like SR507 or 404LE has. Left and Right channel soundstages are not connected to each other. They don't create a full round(360 degrees) headstage in or around your head. I don't know how to explain it but I'll try: L300 soundstage is like having one tiny small bubble next to your ear with almost no width, sounds are layered there or directed to you from there.  Most of the time, due to lacking width in soundstage, L300 layers instruments ridiculously close to each other, especially during well recorded string quartet pieces. L700 on the other hand has quite a bit soundstage. Soekris 1541 + KGSSHV Carbon is what I use. L300 also almost completely rolls off after 10khz, I don't know what you mean with perfect treble... really. I guess you confuse bright sound with transparency here. Because through a shouty(and/or bright) presentation the detail is more accessible to the listener, It doesn't mean those headphones are more detailed.

If i had to rank these headphones I'd give 100 points for resolution & detail of 009S, L300 can just get 50 from me.(HD800 has better resolution than L300) I had 009/007/L700/L300(I still have L300 with me) with me for a long time. I AB tested them for I don't know how many times. It's amazing how subjective differences make us think different about same headphones. Anyway, I'm surprised. Wow.


----------



## armani006

that you all argue with no evidence, write on what equipment you listen to. Here maybe one is listening on the old multi-bit DAC and the other on the new delta sigma..


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## Tugbars

armani006 said:


> that you all argue with no evidence, write on what equipment you listen to. Here maybe one is listening on the old multi-bit DAC and the other on the new delta sigma..



Yes, that is healthy. We are not audio engineers. I think we(most of us) are only qualified enough to share subjective opinions. This skepticism is important to keep forums clean from pseudo science in my opinion.  Sometimes I share what I read in articles too, however, I have never studied amplifier design or transducer design in an institution. My knowledge, if there is any, is only partial and missing a lot of parts. So I try to most of the time share only subjective experiences.


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## T3RIAD

armani006 said:


> that you all argue with no evidence, write on what equipment you listen to. Here maybe one is listening on the old multi-bit DAC and the other on the new delta sigma..



That's good to an extent, but you can also go too far with it.

"I don't like the L300 soundstage; it's too small."

"Really? You must not be hearing it right. Try getting a better DAC."

"I upgraded the DAC, still don't like it."

"That can't be right. Have you tried running it through tubes?"

"Got a BHSE, still sounds bad."

"Obviously your interconnects are poorly matched..."

At some point just admit that different people like different things.


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## bearFNF

pofofo said:


> Does anybody know where I can get a male Normal Bias (6 pin) plug that can be soldered on?


Check this post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sta...ors-diy-extension-cable.300153/#post-13156952


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## daytrader (Aug 5, 2020)

BenF said:


> L300 is one the most transparent  headphones I ever heard, on par with 009.
> It sounds very natural, and has a huuuuuuuuuuuuge soundstage - thanks to its perfect treble, which provides a lot of "brilliance" to the sound, while staying shy of introducing sibilance. It has a perfect timbre (especially in female vocals), and can create an illusion of listening to the actual concert, not a reproduciton of recorded music.
> It's only con is the poor bass quantity/quality.
> 
> ...


This is extremely contradictory to every review I’ve ever read or heard comparing the L series Stax head speaker, my own experience Included as I have heard all three with an 353x and an 007tll. DAC is the Denafrips Ares ll.  Have never heard the 007 or 009 to be clear.


----------



## catscratch (Aug 5, 2020)

I find the L700 to be too bright with a peak at 5.5khz, bump at 1.2khz, some unevenness in the upper mids and some general treble emphasis. There is some extra midbass kick but to my ears it's certainly not too warm. This is the mk1 version. But it responds well to EQ. I think Oratory1990's measurements of it are fairly accurate though he EQs to Harman and to my ears Harman is a bit off. So I don't use his EQ but the measurements are a good reference point.

Never heard the L300.



Spoiler



no power and typing on mobile makes baby cat cry... and by "cry" I mean "want to hurl phone through wall"


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## Mach3

daytrader said:


> This is extremely contradictory to every review I’ve ever read or heard comparing the L series Stax head speaker, my own experience Included as I have heard all three with an 353x and an 007tll. DAC is the Denafrips Ares ll.  Have never heard the 007 or 009 to be clear.


 Yeah I agree, my finding don't match up with BenF statement at all. I'm got L300, L300 LE, X2 007 Mk1 and 009BK and a bunch of Stax amp and 2 KG amp.


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## pbowne

Let me start off with some background. I am a long-time Stax user with original Stax Lambda (normal bias) and the SRD-7SB energizer. Years ago I had heard the Lambda Pro earspeakers and was wowed by them. That put the pro's on my wishlist since I couldn't afford the earspeakers plus amp.

Now years later at the 1st AXPONA Show I listened to the SR-009 with the Blue Hawaii amp. That became my new dream. Since I could in no way afford this I figured I start small and build up in steps. Took a chance with a used SRM-T1 in great shape since it has both normal and pro bias connectors so I could use the headphones until I bought pros. I also read about the mods (CSS, etc) considered that as another possible step. Had it re-capped but the engineer refused to do any mods. Sounded fabulous with my Lambdas which, to be honest are in lousy shape. Getting a chance to buy barely used L300's I jumped on it.

So here's the situation. I've listened to both the Lambdas and the L300's a lot and the newer pro earspeakers have flabby mushy bass and have limited volume. The Lambda's are tight and really great sounding. What's wrong and how do I resolve this? Do I need to find someone to mod the amp or start looking for another amp? The reviews on the SRS-3100 System say the SRM-252S drives the L300's very well. I'm very confused at this point.

p.s. I loved the L300's when heard at AXPONA.


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## armani006

pbowne said:


> I also read about the mods (CSS, etc) considered that as another possible step.


you must, must and must do CCS-mode, I've done it and it is cheapest way to improve your amp's level ! CCS current mode is the way how other new modern expensive amps work.




pbowne said:


> Getting a chance to buy barely used L300's I jumped on it.


Buy new thick (2.5-3 cm) genuine leather custom pads, I've done it, it is cheapest way to get enough bass response, as the same level as dynamic headphones have.

I've done both modes and now happy, without this modes I would sell all Stax staff with no regret, now want to try Peruns )))


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## tumpux

pbowne said:


> Let me start off with some background. I am a long-time Stax user with original Stax Lambda (normal bias) and the SRD-7SB energizer. Years ago I had heard the Lambda Pro earspeakers and was wowed by them. That put the pro's on my wishlist since I couldn't afford the earspeakers plus amp.
> .



I always love to hear the experience of old time stax users. How exactly did you exposed to stax?


----------



## Tugbars (Aug 8, 2020)

pbowne said:


> Let me start off with some background. I am a long-time Stax user with original Stax Lambda (normal bias) and the SRD-7SB energizer. Years ago I had heard the Lambda Pro earspeakers and was wowed by them. That put the pro's on my wishlist since I couldn't afford the earspeakers plus amp.
> 
> Now years later at the 1st AXPONA Show I listened to the SR-009 with the Blue Hawaii amp. That became my new dream. Since I could in no way afford this I figured I start small and build up in steps. Took a chance with a used SRM-T1 in great shape since it has both normal and pro bias connectors so I could use the headphones until I bought pros. I also read about the mods (CSS, etc) considered that as another possible step. Had it re-capped but the engineer refused to do any mods. Sounded fabulous with my Lambdas which, to be honest are in lousy shape. Getting a chance to buy barely used L300's I jumped on it.
> 
> ...



did you try to port mod your L300? Lambda pros have closed ports as far as i remember and L300's do not. In a pressure chamber(pads + sealed port) frequencies are constant, so you can get tighter sub bass. Open ports can also result a midbass hump which is the case with L300.




as you can see in the pic, the port is blocked in 009. There are guides on how to block the port of L300 on it's head-fi thread and over the internet you can find additional guides too.




Ported L300/L500 basically looks like that.


----------



## BenF (Aug 8, 2020)

armani006 said:


> that you all argue with no evidence, write on what equipment you listen to. Here maybe one is listening on the old multi-bit DAC and the other on the new delta sigma..



I auditioned L300, 007, 009, 009S, Shangrila Jr and Perun through *Blue Hawaii* + *Holospring DAC *+ *SU1* *interface* at Headamp in November 2018.
L300 and Perun were mine, the rest was provided by Justin.
I ended up buying 009 - next to it, 007 sounded like Walkman headphones.
Even though 009 is more than twice the price, it sounded like a bargain compared to 007.

At my office, I usually drive my electrostats using Airbow SRM253S, which is basically Stax SRM252S, but built using better components.
L300 sounds beautiful through SRM253S, but 009 sounds too clinical - I solved it by introducing a hybrid pre-amp.
Now 009 sounds very similar to how it sounded at Headamp, except for the bass - SRM253S lacks the power to produce the same slam.
L300 doesn't benefit from the tubes or additional power, Blue Hawaii didn't make it sound any better than SRM253S.

I have also shortly auditioned Stax D50 and D10 amps at Headamp - they both produced better bass than SRM253S with L300.
D50 introduced some extra warmth to the sound, D10 sounded perfectly transparent.


----------



## ahmedie

pbowne said:


> So here's the situation. I've listened to both the Lambdas and the L300's a lot and the newer pro earspeakers have flabby mushy bass and have limited volume.


L300limited has the tightest bass out of all new models especially with the L700 pads and little eq, still, 404LE was tighter ha..., also the doing above mod helps alot


----------



## ahmedie

BenF said:


> L300 is one the most transparent  headphones I ever heard, on par with 009.


Okay they are very transparent, they sound totally different from music to music, so they reveal source better? but they are not even close to 009 in term of detail retreival let alone L700



BenF said:


> It sounds very natural, and has a huuuuuuuuuuuuge soundstage - thanks to its perfect treble, which provides a lot of "brilliance" to the sound, while staying shy of introducing sibilance. It has a perfect timbre (especially in female vocals), and can create an illusion of listening to the actual concert, not a reproduciton of recorded music.
> It's only con is the poor bass quantity/quality.


I would not say they are very natural, the highs are obviously subdued with small soundstage, instruments sizes are bigger, L700 sound-stage is much larger...



BenF said:


> L700 sounds a lot darker, with smaller soundstage, not transparent at all - the sound is colored.


L700 have much obvious tuning regarding frequency response (hence veiled?), with the darkest background out of new models



BenF said:


> Here are my comparisons of L700 and L300 with L1000 (L300 + L700 pads):
> *L700 with L700 pads* -  Warm sounding - tonality is too sweet, small soundstage, excellent bass. Boring sounding.
> L1000 is superior in everything but the bass - L700 has thicker bass with better decay
> 
> ...



I think BenF preference is clearly toward bright headphones that why he like 009 so much than 007 !


----------



## ahmedie

daytrader said:


> This is extremely contradictory to every review I’ve ever read or heard comparing the L series Stax head speaker, my own experience Included as I have heard all three with an 353x and an 007tll. DAC is the Denafrips Ares ll.  Have never heard the 007 or 009 to be clear.


I agree


----------



## pbowne (Aug 9, 2020)

armani006 said:


> you must, must and must do CCS-mode, I've done it and it is cheapest way to improve your amp's level ! CCS current mode is the way how other new modern expensive amps work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd love to do the CCS mods. I think I might be able to put it together but I wouldn't know what to do if I had a problem. If I could find someone locally in the Chicago area or in the U.S. where I could ship it I'd get it done.

I was thinking about getting the L700 earpads and using blu-tack so that should help the bass.


----------



## pbowne

tumpux said:


> I always love to hear the experience of old time stax users. How exactly did you exposed to stax?



My original Stax was the SR-X with energizer which I got in the 70's from a local stereo shop.


----------



## pbowne

Tugbars said:


> did you try to port mod your L300? Lambda pros have closed ports as far as i remember and L300's do not. In a pressure chamber(pads + sealed port) frequencies are constant, so you can get tighter sub bass. Open ports can also result a midbass hump which is the case with L300.
> 
> as you can see in the pic, the port is blocked in 009. There are guides on how to block the port of L300 on it's head-fi thread and over the internet you can find additional guides too.
> 
> ...



Never heard of porting in Stax. Thanks. I'll probably opt for the L700 earpads and use blu-tack. What did you use on yours?


----------



## armani006

BenF said:


> I auditioned L300, 007, 009, 009S, Shangrila Jr and Perun


did you write anywhere comparison between 009 and Perun? 



BenF said:


> Airbow SRM253S, which is basically Stax SRM252S, but built using better components


here please more detailed or link  please, I had 253s but sold it.. interesting to know what is the difference..


----------



## Bingturong

Does anyone here know what is a good replacement for the SRA-3S volume/balance pot?


----------



## o7brother (Aug 10, 2020)

Went on a little trip to BoogieWoogie’s house recently, and would you look at that desk 

From left to right, we have a Holo Audio Spring Kitsune DAC, a KGSSHV Carbon (not Mjolnir but a quality build, unlike the cheaper Chinese versions) a Mjolnir KGSSHV Mini (the discontinued variant with the smallest chassis) and a Stax SRM-717, aka the best solid state amp made by Stax. We also tried his RME ADI-2 DAC with the various amps as well.

As for headphones, we have three of my personal units, an SR-404 Limited Edition (up for sale btw), an SR-007 Mk 2.9 and an SR-009.

The main purpose of this meet was for me to spend a few hours comparing the three amps in particular, and Boogie was excited to hear the SR-009 and 404LE for the first time (spoiler, he liked them).

Let’s address the largest difference between the amps: power. The SRM-717 has enough headroom that neither of us could rotate the knob past the 2 o’clock position on the quietest recordings, and for most music, much less than that. The mafia amps, on the other hand, were absolute monsters; we could hardly move the knob past the 9 o’clock position.

First of all, the effect the better amps had on these headphones was more noticeable on the 007 than on the 009 and 404LE. Each amp represents a relatively small increment in sound quality compared to the last, perhaps understandably. I’ll describe the differences between the Carbon and 717 to make it easier on myself, since I’ve extensively A/B’d the 717 and the Mini in my own time and find them extremely similar in tone.

We each listened for a good while, comparing the three amps, without saying anything so as to avoid influencing each other. Then we shared our thoughts and we were in agreement. Basically, the major difference heard from the Carbon was detail. The treble just sounded slightly more natural and transparent than that of the 717. This leads to a more dynamic and engaging listen on the Carbon, without straying into sibilance or anything like that. We also felt the soundstage was slightly bigger on the 007. Not a big difference in soundstage or bass with the 009, as I had been lead to believe.

The Carbon works wonders on any kind of music. I especially enjoyed it on energetic pop songs like Dua Lipa’s stuff, which is quite well-produced, as well as the usual reference songs like the Hell Freezes Over version of Hotel California and Dire Straits stuff. Boogie cycled through his collection of heavy metal music and was grinning ear to ear.

Overall, my favorite combo was RME + Carbon + 007, but Boogie preferred Holo + Carbon + 009. The main takeaway here is that the various mafia amplifiers are all extremely well made. Once you're this close to the summit, the differences in sound quality become smaller and smaller. The KGSSHV Carbon is the best e-stat amp I’ve ever heard, and represents the final step in that journey, and this particular Carbon may yet end up in my possession


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## nepherte

o7brother said:


> Went on a little trip to BoogieWoogie’s house recently, and would you look at that desk
> 
> From left to right, we have a Holo Audio Spring Kitsune DAC, a KGSSHV Carbon (not Mjolnir but a quality build, unlike the cheaper Chinese versions) a Mjolnir KGSSHV Mini (the discontinued variant with the smallest chassis) and a Stax SRM-717, aka the best solid state amp made by Stax. We also tried his RME ADI-2 DAC with the various amps as well.
> 
> ...


That Carbon looks sick. Care to disclose who is the builder?


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## o7brother

nepherte said:


> Care to disclose who is the builder?



I don't know, you'll have to ask BoogieWoogie. If I recall correctly, he mentions it was built in Europe and that good components from Mouser were used. He has some info and inside pics here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-kgsshv-carbon.927101/


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## BenF (Aug 9, 2020)

armani006 said:


> did you write anywhere comparison between 009 and Perun?


Here are my notes from that day:

Perun and 009S sound oddly similar. 009S has an edge in transparency, but not too much
009S is easier to drive, Perun is usually at 11 AM, 009S at 10:30 on the Blue Hawaii

Female voices sound too thin on 009S, perfect on Perun ("Hold My Hand" by Brandy Clark)
009 doesn't have the thin female voice problem, perfect like Perun.

Bass on 009 sounds a bit fuller than on 009S ("Falling" by Haim)
009 has slightly deeper and fuller bass than Perun ( "Weatherstorm" by Craig Armstrong)

Perun is greatly benefiting from better amplification, Blue Hawaii has bridged the gap between Perun and 009, compared to SRM253S.
Stax D10 doesn't have enough power to drive Perun - bass lacks impact, and sometime volume is lacking too.
Stax D50 drives Perun beautifully, bass is great.

Shangrila Jr is harder to drive than 009 or Perun, needs to go 2-3 settings above 009 for the same volume
Shangrila Jr sounds like a less "live" version of 009, bass is as good as 009 though
Shangrila Jr sounds similar to Perun, but with better bass, really hard to tell the difference when volume is matched.

My Perun is not the latest "Live Sound" version, it's the one before it.
The "Live Sound" should sound even better, but from my experience newer doesn't always mean better.



armani006 said:


> here please more detailed or link  please, I had 253s but sold it.. interesting to know what is the difference..


http://www.ippinkan.co.jp/airbow/product/headphone/srm253_pac253.html
It is discontinued, but still available on Amazon:  https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/Airbow-–-SRM-–-253S-iya-supi-ka-Dedicated-Driver-Amplifier/dp/B075KBB5VQ
Airbow also makes a linear power supply, but I use another one with my 253S.


----------



## Tugbars (Aug 9, 2020)

I heard about a local amplifier designer in Germany:

http://high-amp.de/html/frame.html

He goes into details of all the necessary information about his amps.
He claims that his best amp(Sirrus) is able to deliver 15mA current and 1500 voltage swing. He explains how each stage of amplification is designed, he shares all the schematics and details on how to build his amps too. My intuition says that his designs  are promising but I don't know how to interpret all the data he is sharing. If somebody has listened to one of his amps, please share your opinion. And if an amplifier designer can evaluate his design choices in his amps. That would be great.


----------



## armani006 (Aug 9, 2020)

BenF said:


> The "Live Sound" should sound even better, but from my experience newer doesn't always mean better.


thank you for so big review, Live sounds is really better, want to try it..



Tugbars said:


> I heard about a local amplifier designer in Germany:


I know him, and had a conversation with Mr Rauenbuehler.. but didn't try his amps.
he has reviews on his page, there people say that Alpha Centauri V7.0  is better than Blue Hawaii, but I would not believe them so easy...


----------



## ahmedie

I have perun too they sound natural and smooth, most close to zmf natural of all stax headphones I have, but they are also a little slower than other Stax, instruments placement is similar to lambda but with bigger soundstage. They have outstanding vocal performance I agree! below music sound really good


----------



## BenF

ahmedie said:


> I think BenF preference is clearly toward bright headphones that why he like 009 so much than 007 !



Since when is 009 a bright headphone? Here is Tyll's measurement of 009 SNSZ92251:




009 is practically flat between 2kHz and 5kHz, and even more subdued in the 5kHz-10kHz range.
Now L300 definitely sounds brighter, thanks to both lesser bass response and extra energy in the 5kHz-10Khz range:





Here are the measurements of my L300 and 009:




As you can see, my L300 is even flatter in the midrange than my 009:
L300 goes 13.5dB down from 1.3kHz to 4kHz (2.7kHz), without any peaks in the middle.
009 goes 14dB down from 1.1kHz to 3.6Khz (2.5kHz), and has an extra peak around 2.8kHz.



ahmedie said:


> L700 have much obvious tuning regarding frequency response (hence veiled?), with the darkest background out of new models


"Obvious tuning" is one way to call it, "bad tuning" is my preferred term:




Look at that horrible 10dB crash between 1,2kHz and 1.8kHz, followed by a 7dB crash between 2.3kHz and 3.6kHz.  
Female vocals don't sound very  good on L700.




Some people were saying that L700 is a "mini-009" - that it ain't.



ahmedie said:


> Okay they are very transparent, they sound totally different from music to music, so they reveal source better? but they are not even close to 009 in term of detail retreival let alone L700


Can't say that I heard something in 009 that I didn't hear in L300.



ahmedie said:


> I would not say they are very natural, the highs are obviously subdued with small soundstage, instruments sizes are bigger, L700 sound-stage is much larger...


As you can see from the graphs above, highs in L300 are anything but subdued compared to L700 and 009.



Tugbars said:


> ... L300 also almost completely rolls off after 10khz, I don't know what you mean with perfect treble... really.


As the graphs above show, above 10kHz, there isn't much difference between L300, L700 and 009.


----------



## armani006

BenF said:


> Now L300 definitely sounds brighter, thanks to both lesser bass response and extra energy in the 5kHz-10Khz range:





to addition, L500 stock pads and Vesper Audio pads with memory foam and genuine leather 2.5cm thick. To show how much pads can play role...  red lines' dive at 7kHz I think is the leather resonance but not sure...


----------



## daytrader (Aug 10, 2020)

Chart measurements don’t make music and listening is subjective. Be happy you are satisfied with the entry level Stax! 😉


----------



## Tugbars (Aug 10, 2020)

I just would like point out that almost all measurements at high treble region are not reliable. Only few measurement rigs are capable of showing consistent results with accuracy in that range. 009S and 007 shows almost flat response after 8khz according to the results taken from mediocre measurement rigs. That's all. I haven't seen any port modded SR007 or 009 being measured with GRAS or Brüel & Kjær equipment yet. If you have, let me know.


----------



## o7brother

Tugbars said:


> I haven't seen any port modded SR007 or 009 being measured with GRAS or Brüel & Kjær equipment yet. If you have, let me know.



Wait another week and oratory1990 will have measured my 007 MK 2.9 with the blu-tack port mod, as well as my 009. He has a proper GRAS rig.


----------



## VandyMan

o7brother said:


> Wait another week and oratory1990 will have measured my 007 MK 2.9 with the blu-tack port mod, as well as my 009. He has a proper GRAS rig.



Great! I use his measurements, as processed by AutoEq, as a convolution filter in Roon. I have not been happy with the 009 one, so I'm very pleased he is doing a new measurement.


----------



## o7brother

VandyMan said:


> Great! I use his measurements, as processed by AutoEq, as a convolution filter in Roon. I have not been happy with the 009 one, so I'm very pleased he is doing a new measurement.



He has measured the 009S, not the 009 iirc


----------



## Jacques Lolive

o7brother said:


> Wait another week and oratory1990 will have measured my 007 MK 2.9 with the blu-tack port mod, as well as my 009. He has a proper GRAS rig.


Will it also measure the 007 MK 2.9 without the blu-tack port mod?


----------



## o7brother

Jacques Lolive said:


> Will it also measure the 007 MK 2.9 without the blu-tack port mod?



Yes, I think so.


----------



## Jacques Lolive

o7brother said:


> Yes, I think so.


Thanks a lot !


----------



## Hubert481

Is there any link to the measurements of oratory1990?


----------



## Jacques Lolive

Hubert481 said:


> Is there any link to the measurements of oratory1990?


https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets


----------



## VandyMan (Aug 11, 2020)

o7brother said:


> He has measured the 009S, not the 009 iirc



You are correct. I checked AutoEQ, the 009 measurement I tried is from crinacle.


----------



## Hubert481

Is there any link to the measurements of crinacle?


----------



## 491838

Crinacle's measurements might be a bit too flattering and maybe not 100% representative of the real sound.


----------



## makan

Dealux said:


> Crinacle's measurements might be a bit too flattering and maybe not 100% representative of the real sound.


What do you mean by “flattering”?


----------



## 491838

makan said:


> What do you mean by “flattering”?


Some areas look more even than they do on oratory's measurements (which were made on adequate equipment; crinacle's rig is DIY).


----------



## VandyMan

Hubert481 said:


> Is there any link to the measurements of crinacle?



Overview:
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

Recommended results:
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results

Crinacle's measurements:
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/crinacle


----------



## RKarim

Hello,

I'm purchasing a Stax 323S and I've been looking into setting the voltage to 120V (the current voltage seems to be 100V). Is this possible? I've seen mixed answers online.

Thanks,

~RKarim


----------



## GarageBoy

Someone can chime in to see if it's rewirable (stax just started omitting the 120v primaries on newer amps) - otherwise, get a 120 - 100V transformer


----------



## RKarim

GarageBoy said:


> Someone can chime in to see if it's rewirable (stax just started omitting the 120v primaries on newer amps) - otherwise, get a 120 - 100V transformer


I know about the transformer. It would just be a nicer setup to be able to run it without.


----------



## Mach3

RKarim said:


> I know about the transformer. It would just be a nicer setup to be able to run it without.



You need to open the cover and take a photo of the transformer section. From the 323S i've seen in the wild, there 3 version with different wiring board type to change the voltage from 100, 110, 120, 220,230,240 
I've done one before in the past and the same to my SRM-600 and SRM-T1S both are different. But easily done if you have a bit of soldering skills


----------



## RKarim

Mach3 said:


> You need to open the cover and take a photo of the transformer section. From the 323S i've seen in the wild, there 3 version with different wiring board type to change the voltage from 100, 110, 120, 220,230,240
> I've done one before in the past and the same to my SRM-600 and SRM-T1S both are different. But easily done if you have a bit of soldering skills


Alright, I will quote you and send a photo when I get it.


----------



## Mach3

Should look something like this post
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-new.223263/page-1320#post-8803910


----------



## PolloLoco (Aug 14, 2020)

Most of my listening these days is through a Stax SRM 717 and either a Stax L700 or Kaldas RR1.

I've recently tried to experiment with adding a tube pre-amp between my DAC and the SRM 717, hoping to get some tube warmth and twang without buying a tube electrostatic amp.  Surprisingly - I picked up practically no difference through casual listening.  I've used an FX Audio tube buffer, and a Loxjie P20 as preamps, and I've rolled at least 3 types of tubes with each.  Though cheap, I enjoyed their effects on my dynamic headphones in the past.

To continue the experiment, I added a switch between my DAC and the Stax Amp and Tube preamps.  That way, with the flick of a switch, I go from XLR directly to the SRM 717 - and RCA to either of the tube pre-amps first.  The switch is instantaneous, to hopefully eliminate the placebo effect.

When I've carefully volume matched, if I switch between the tube sources, the music sounds completely uninterrupted with practically NO tonal difference.  I'm not picking up any tube warmth.  At best, what I can hear is a smoothing of certain recordings with a little grain through solid state.

Is there a reason I can't seem to tube pre-amp the SRM 717?  Does the Stax amp somehow clean up the 2nd order distortion?  Or are my ears just that bad at 42 years of age?  

To be clear I'm switching between these chains:

Sabaj D5 DAC - XLR to Switch, to Stax SRM 717
Sabaj D5 DAC - RCA to Tube Pre-amp, to Switch, to Stax SRM 717


----------



## mnemonix (Aug 14, 2020)

The Stax energiser will not clean up any existing distortion in the sound, at best it will simply amplify what it is fed without adding any more.

But congratulations, you are discovering what many people who don't blind test will never admit to, in most circumstances, amps, dacs, cables etc will make little or no difference to the sound.

I wouldn't personally be trying to change the sound of my $1500 headphones with a $50 ebay tube special anyway; in fact you'd probably get better and more controllable results adding a VST effect into the digital audio path if it's sourced from a pc - tube, saturation, tape simulation, parametric eq etc. there are plenty of ways of screwing up your expensively produced audio signal if you really want to. That  or do what the the Stax mafia recommend and spend another $2000 on a tube based energiser!


----------



## PolloLoco

mnemonix said:


> The Stax energiser will not clean up any existing distortion in the sound, at best it will simply amplify what it is fed without adding any more.
> 
> But congratulations, you are discovering what many people who don't blind test will never admit to, in most circumstances, amps, dacs, cables etc will make little or no difference to the sound.
> 
> I wouldn't personally be trying to change the sound of my $1500 headphones with a $50 ebay tube special anyway; in fact you'd probably get better and more controllable results adding a VST effect into the digital audio path if it's sourced from a pc - tube, saturation, tape simulation, parametric eq etc. there are plenty of ways of screwing up your expensively produced audio signal if you really want to. That  or do what the the Stax mafia recommend and spend another $2000 on a tube based energiser!



Thanks for the feedback. The two cheap tube preamps I already had, from long before I got hooked on stats.  I figured I'd have fun messing with the sound based on hardware I already had - but am shocked by no audible change.  I enjoy experimenting.

I was thinking that I might get a better tube preamp like a Little Dot 3 or Valhalla 2, but at this point I think it may be a waste of money.


----------



## T3RIAD

Whenever I see an audio product with reviews that look like this:

"Really improves the sound a whole lot"
"Holy crap! What a difference!"
"Bigger soundstage, more bass, less sibilance, more refinement, better midrange, higher detail.."
"Meh...didn't make much of a difference."
Then the fourth review is usually right.


----------



## playmusic

This is my first posting, and I hope that this thread is the right place to post it.

I recently listened to a Stax SR-009s and a L700 Mk2 via SRM-T8000.
I liked the 009s significantly more than the L700. The audibility of details was surprising with the 009s.

There was one aspect though, where I am not certain: the bass.
The bass reproduction of the L700 was louder.
When listening, I carefully positioned the earspeakers. The sealing between headphone and head was as good as I could manage. (Bass did not change when I pushed the earspeakers a bit more with my hands to my head.)

When I listened with the 009s to a piano sonata or to the double bass part in a piece then it sounded fine.
But when I then switched to the L700 the piano sounded "fuller" via the more louder bass.

I am wondering now: Is the bass reproduced by the L700 artificially louder than the recording and has the 009s actually the correct bass volume reproduction?
Or is the bass reproduction of the 009s too faint?

Has anyone of you directly compared the 009s reproduction of e.g. a piano recording and a live instrument and checked whether bass reproduction of the 009s is accurate?
I am looking forward to your feedback!


----------



## 491838

You don't test bass with piano music lol but yes, the L700 has a bump at 70(ish) Hz so they are a bit warmer in the bass but they roll-off quicker afterwards than the 009 if I recall.


----------



## Mach3

Dealux is correct. To test bass, you find the most badass upbeat RnB track and turn the volume all the way to dynamic rumble.


----------



## walakalulu

If you want better bass reproduction you’ll need to look at other amps than Stax ie Gilmore designs. Stax cans tend not to do boom box bass but favour accuracy over weight. Audeze are excellent for bass addicts though.


----------



## playmusic

Thank you for your replies. 
Maybe I should have phrased my question a bit differently.

A regular 88-key piano has a frequency range of ca. 30 Hz - 4 kHz.
And a double bass a relevant range of ca. 70 - 250 Hz. (Actually down to 40 Hz, but the low notes are rather faint on the instrument itself).
So, there are low frequency elements in these instruments.

I was wondering if anybody has compared (either by memory or by having the instrument next to their 009s or 700 Mk2) the reproduction of the music
with the actual instrument.
I have no access to piano, double bass, etc. - let alone next to a Stax setup for direct comparison.
I realize the dependency of the Stax sound reproduction on the amp as expressed in posts here and other threads.


----------



## 491838

You'd probably be better off with something like an LCD-4 or better yet, a Susvara, if you want that deep bass reproduction. Stax stuff doesn't have very present bass.


----------



## Tugbars

Dealux said:


> You'd probably be better off with something like an LCD-4 or better yet, a Susvara, if you want that deep bass reproduction. Stax stuff doesn't have very present bass.



It really depends on the model.


----------



## mobbaddict

The SR-007 can be seriously fun with hip-hop and such (even trap music). But it's a different bass presentation than a planar, more ethereal.


----------



## BenF

daytrader said:


> ...Be happy you are satisfied with the entry level Stax! 😉


I'm enjoying my TOTL Stax 009 even more, thank you very much.
I just wish people wouldn't associate higher price with better sound so rigidly.
A random 60000$ car will be better than a random 20000$ car in 99.9% of cases, but a 600$ headphone isn't guaranteed to outperform a 200$ headphone.

Bill of materials of a more expensive headphone isn't necessarily higher (at least not significantly) than that of a cheaper one.
The price difference often goes into marketing/profit, or into a better build quality - which helps to sell at a higher price, but doesn't do much for sound.



daytrader said:


> Chart measurements don’t make music and listening is subjective.


Of course - chart measurements only show half the data - quantity, not quality. Headphones that measure similarly, may have a similar sound signature, but still differ greatly in the sound quality.
Quantity is still important though - if a headphone drops 10dB over just 0.6kHz in the vocal range, vocals are not going to sound great.


----------



## playmusic

Thank you for your feedback on my bass reproduction question.

Another question I have is about the necessity of headroom for amplifiers for Stax headphones.
Current Stax headphones are specified with a sensitivity of 101 dBSPL @ 100 Vrms and 1 kHz.
There are two cases where I listen at high SPL levels up to105 dBSPL:

Classical music where the rms is up to 20 dB lower than the peak of the soundfile.
Bass-focused music. (This music is percieved as quieter than music of the same rms but with a significant part in 1 kHz  - 8 kHz. This different perception is described by the Fletcher-Munson curves)
105 dbSPL requires ca. 160 V with a Stax headphone.

The SRM-D10 has a Vrms max of 200 V, so there is a headroom of 2 dB.
The other Stax amplifiers have a maximum of 300 - 470 Vrms, so they have a headroom of 5 - 10 dB.

Some people claim that a large headroom (significantly higher than 10 dB) is required to deal adequately with transients.

How is the situation with Stax headphones and amplifiers in your experience?


----------



## tabness

The new Advanced Lambda series has a midbass hump likely due to being ported (this has been shown in various measurements and I have 009S and L500 MKII and I hear it this way as well). I do think the 009S has a slightly better and more natural timbre than the L500 (L500 is brighter) though, but the 009S seems to be just a bit off in timbre compared to some of my other headphones (R10 for sure, CD3000 as well although the CD3000 is a bit artificially exciting itself, the Stax Omega in general).

The 009S is still my favorite Stax headphone (Omega may be have natural timbre but it's less exciting/sparkly and L500 the main difference is the soundstage/separation more so than the slightly brighter tonality).

Once you get to the "full size" Stax driver units (353X/006tS and up) you should have enough voltage swing unless you want to (dangerously) listen near the max db SPL of the headphone itself. The thing that's bought up is slew rate limiting for the Stax driver units at those voltages at higher frequencies, but again, the fact that the power bandwidth of most audio signals would be 3 kHz to 5 kHz it's very unlikely that there would be any issues with this happening in almost every recording that exists. After that's it's a matter of the linerarity of the amp and all that (353X should be very linear, but I also have T1S and while it might be colored a bit (more full bass), for me it really isn't any big difference as compared to the transducers themselves).


----------



## T3RIAD

f





playmusic said:


> How is the situation with Stax headphones and amplifiers in your experience?



This is a rather controversial topic. Some people say that you shouldn't bother with the SR-009 if you can't get a $5,000 third-party amp to go with it. Then there are some who say that even a Stax D10 driving an SR-007 is adequate unless you like to listen really loud.

From a technical standpoint, the Stax amps have plenty of voltage to drive any of their headphones as loud as they can possibly go. The main disadvantage I've heard is that Stax amps are current limited. For e-stat headphones, the higher frequencies require more current to drive than the lower frequencies. The Stax amps only have enough current to drive frequencies up to 10 kHz at maximum volume.

We can't hear distortion at that frequency, but if you listen really loudly, the high frequencies might be attenuated with a Stax amp. Also, many of the third-party amps have regulated power supplies, though it's unclear to me how that would affect the sound.

I have a Stax SRM-353x powering the SR-009S. It sounds great to me. I haven't heard a high-end amp, so it's possible they could sound even better. I'm personally skeptical it would make much of a difference, if any.


----------



## walakalulu

Stax amps tend to soften the low frequencies too.


----------



## playmusic

T3RIAD said:


> The Stax amps only have enough current to drive frequencies up to 10 kHz at maximum volume.
> We can't hear distortion at that frequency, but if you listen really loudly, the high frequencies might be attenuated with a Stax amp.


I see your point that harmonics of 10 kHz are not audible.

It seems that amps for Stax headphone are working "near to the limit" at high volumes.
This might be a reason that tubes and transistors actually behave differently at those constellations even if they measure the same in the "linear" i.e. specified range.
There is an intersting article "Tubes vs transistors is there an audible difference" by Russell O. Hamm from 1973 available for free at several places on the internet.
Basically, the article shows that tubes are more pleasing than transistors to the ear during recording and playback when they are operated outside the specified range.



T3RIAD said:


> I have a Stax SRM-353x powering the SR-009S. It sounds great to me. I haven't heard a high-end amp, so it's possible they could sound even better. I'm personally skeptical it would make much of a difference, if any.


Good advice, this approach sounds reasonable to me.
Thank you!


----------



## BowWazoo (Aug 18, 2020)

I owned the Focal Stellia and the Final Audio D8000,
but the Stax sr-l507 destroys both of them plainly.  
I am absolutely thrilled...😲






Here is my EQ preset


----------



## Amish

T3RIAD said:


> I have a Stax SRM-353x powering the SR-009S. It sounds great to me. I haven't heard a high-end amp, so it's possible they could sound even better. I'm personally skeptical it would make much of a difference, if any.



I own a Mjolnir Audio Octave III. The Octave being inspired by the SRM-353X. Basically a simplified KGSSHV. That said he (the builder) claims it will easily  drive any of the Lambda up to SR-009. I believe the 353X would do the same and from what you stated, you concur.
On topic I can say that I have only owned one STAX amp, the STAX SRM-T1 and though it sounded lovely, it just did not have the ability to drive my L700mkII to full authority. The Octave does and then some. I can crank the Octave as loud as I can stand it, to the point of pain and it is still clean. I'd love to try one of those $5k amps but honestly i am so happy with the Octave and L700 that I just do not see the point of such a large investment.


----------



## daytrader

So I came up upon the Stax 353x BLk 80th Anniversary energizer on the elusiveDisc website.   Is this unit still available?  I thought only a limited supply of 300 were offered back in 2018 and they’ve been long gone sold out ever since?  I checked around all the other Stax retailers here in the US, Apos, Stax.usa(Woo) and even HeadAmp, none of them have it.  Was always curious about this edition, were they actually any different than the standard 353x or just marketing hype?  The L300LE was said to have come very close to the L700 after reviews came out as compared to the standard L300 so one would think the 353x BLK LE would have follow suite?


----------



## RKarim (Aug 20, 2020)

(deleted)


----------



## BowWazoo

Does anyone know a mobile amp,
 with 580V Bias, as an alternative to the Stax D10?


----------



## mnemonix

daytrader said:


> So I came up upon the Stax 353x BLk 80th Anniversary energizer on the elusiveDisc website.   Is this unit still available?  I thought only a limited supply of 300 were offered back in 2018 and they’ve been long gone sold out ever since?  I checked around all the other Stax retailers here in the US, Apos, Stax.usa(Woo) and even HeadAmp, none of them have it.  Was always curious about this edition, were they actually any different than the standard 353x or just marketing hype?  The L300LE was said to have come very close to the L700 after reviews came out as compared to the standard L300 so one would think the 353x BLK LE would have follow suite?



It's specification is identical to the SRM-353X and I've never read anything implying even a minor upgrade in components so I believe the only difference was the colour and a badge.


----------



## Mach3

daytrader said:


> So I came up upon the Stax 353x BLk 80th Anniversary energizer on the elusiveDisc website.   Is this unit still available?  I thought only a limited supply of 300 were offered back in 2018 and they’ve been long gone sold out ever since?  I checked around all the other Stax retailers here in the US, Apos, Stax.usa(Woo) and even HeadAmp, none of them have it.  Was always curious about this edition, were they actually any different than the standard 353x or just marketing hype?  The L300LE was said to have come very close to the L700 after reviews came out as compared to the standard L300 so one would think the 353x BLK LE would have follow suite?



Besides the gold badge and black paint it the same unit as the 353x, confirm this already.


----------



## kevin gilmore

BowWazoo said:


> Does anyone know a mobile amp,
> with 580V Bias, as an alternative to the Stax D10?



srm252 with a decent sized 12V lithium ion battery glued to the top or bottom.


----------



## jsts

o7brother said:


> We also tried his RME ADI-2 DAC with the various amps as well.



Thank you for the overview.

My two cents.

I sold my DAC RME ADI-2 and switched to Chord Hugo 2. The reason is simple: RME ADI-2 is very sharp, very detailed, very bright. I chose a slightly calmer Hugo 2 for comfortable listening on electrostats (SRM-600LTD + SR-007MKII).

Just sharing my experience


----------



## jsts

kevin gilmore said:


> srm252 with a decent sized 12V lithium ion battery glued to the top or bottom.



lol


----------



## GarageBoy

https://www.amazon.com/TalentCell-Rechargeable-3000mAh-Lithium-External/dp/B01M7Z9Z1N/ and a 252 and a small DAC is still smaller than some older portable rigs


----------



## BowWazoo (Aug 21, 2020)

Order TalentCell: ✅

I use a Note9 with Neutron as a Player.
Works great 👍


----------



## kevin gilmore

you really need the 6AH battery for 10 hours of playing time.


----------



## armani006

kevin gilmore said:


> srm252 with a decent sized 12V lithium ion battery glued to the top or bottom


it has  280V..


----------



## kevin gilmore

252 is pro bias only.
srm-Xh, Srm212, SRM252 are all pro bias only.
fairly easy to modify if you want standard bias.


----------



## mnemonix

BowWazoo said:


> Order TalentCell: ✅



And a reverse polarity adaptor to use the supplied cable since the SRM-252 requires a centre negative power supply.


----------



## Mach3

kevin gilmore said:


> you really need the 6AH battery for 10 hours of playing time.



In that case I want 12 hours plus
https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B01337QXMA/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=


----------



## jsts (Aug 24, 2020)

jsts said:


> Sketch of the CCS-mode board for the SRM-600. Moving forward little by little  Mr. Gilmore, mr. Lin, thank you!



Finally I developed and manufactured a board for CCS-MOD for my SRM-600. I'm starting to solder the parts


----------



## GarageBoy

Does such a board exist in any form for the T1 series?


----------



## jsts

GarageBoy said:


> Does such a board exist in any form for the T1 series?



I have not seen a similar board for T1 with mounts on existing screws. But the T1 has a different layout of tubes and plate resistors, so my form-factor is not exactly suitable, you need to develop another one.


----------



## BowWazoo

do you think it's worth upgrading from the 252s to the 323?


----------



## mnemonix

BowWazoo said:


> do you think it's worth upgrading from the 252s to the 323?



Well it won't be 'portable' anymore, so there's that. What aspect of the 252 are you unsatisfied with?


----------



## BowWazoo

To explain to myself: 
I have already overcome the high-end phase and am aware of the sense and nonsense of high-end devices.  
But I have no experience with electrostatic headphones, so I wonder what influence an amplifier can have in this case


----------



## Bingturong (Aug 25, 2020)

Actually has anyone ever done a sound comparison between the SRD-X pro and the smaller stax amps? I have a normal bias SRD-X, somewhere, and the full-sized amps are definitely a lot better in every way. Still not too bad for something running on six D-cell batteries.


----------



## Eich1eeF

BowWazoo said:


> To explain to myself:
> I have already overcome the high-end phase and am aware of the sense and nonsense of high-end devices.
> But I have no experience with electrostatic headphones, so I wonder what influence an amplifier can have in this case


Higher peak-to-peak voltage swing, more current, better THD and SNR. The voltage (and power) requirements of the Stax headphones differ a bit, the SR-007 is apparently the hardest to drive. I'm not aware of any objective measurements of the resulting effect. Since you have a 252, I'd suggest taking that and your own headphones to a dealer that has some amps to compare it to. I'd recommend MSP in Cologne, I think the last time I've been there, they've had a 353 and a 007t on display.  Alternatively, if it doesn't get cancelled, the German Stax importer is usually at http://www.westdeutsche-hifi-tage.de/, but they are in a noisy shared room on the ground floor.


----------



## o7brother

BowWazoo said:


> But I have no experience with electrostatic headphones, so I wonder what influence an amplifier can have in this case



If you stick with the good amps (323, 353X, 717, and the mafia ones) you'll find the main difference is power output and not sound quality. I've written about this previously in the thread, but the going beyond a 353X is an exercise in severe diminishing returns.


----------



## BowWazoo

Ok, thx.  
I think that I definitely don't need more power for the 507


----------



## Tugbars (Aug 25, 2020)

There was a conversation about this recently, so I'll explain it very simply: It's easy for electrostatic amplifiers to multiply voltages. Koss amp has insane voltage swing for example(2400Volts peak to peak if i remember right), however, it delivers about 20 times less current than it can satisfy 2400vpss with full extension. What hard for  electrostatic amps is to deliver enough current for full treble extension. Of course the equation of what makes an estats amp good isn't this simple: Higher current != better amp.There are more things involved in designing amps that can change the sound.

SR 507 is easy to drive, I don't expect a huge difference between 252S and 323 when paired with SR507. I have KGSSHV Carbon, SRM252 and SR507. I'll try both tonight with my SR507's and write what I hear here.


----------



## BowWazoo

Mr. Rauenbühler is sending me a Sirrah to test today, I'm curious.


----------



## playmusic

Tugbars said:


> There was a conversation about this recently


Hello @Tugbars. I guess you are referring to @T3RIAD's posting


T3RIAD said:


> The main disadvantage I've heard is that Stax amps are current limited. For e-stat headphones, the higher frequencies require more current to drive than the lower frequencies.



Stax seems to indirectly confirm this for their older amps by a statement about the new SRM-700s:
"The output of J-FET excellent in low-noise amplification as well as large current emitter follower circuit brings out the full performance of earspeakers. Even the music source with much high-frequency ingredients can easily be driven. "

Could someone please explain the physics behind the difficulty to drive e-stat headphones at higher frequencies?
(As I understand it, the difficulty to drive some loudspeakers lies in the very low impedance of some loudspeakers at certain frequency ranges.
Is this similar with e-stat headphones, i.e. do e-stats have low impedances at higher frequencies?)


----------



## padam

playmusic said:


> Hello @Tugbars. I guess you are referring to @T3RIAD's posting
> 
> 
> Stax seems to indirectly confirm this for their older amps by a statement about the new SRM-700s:
> ...


Copied from another forum, but from a forum member:

"Stax amps are "mediocre" because they have to be mass produced and therefore at least be somewhat cost effective, Stax also almost never update their amp designs. Their tube amps are still stuck in the 90's, with plate resistor loading that burns up a large amount of the current the amp can supply (note that they know they don't have to do this, because their SS amps don't). They use unregulated power supplies that are just not fit for the task of consistently delivering on transient peaks.

Electrostatic headphones are a unique load because they are capacitive devices. Delivering a practically perfect 1V square wave into a normal dynamic headphone from 20-20KHz is quite frankly trivial in comparison to delivering a 100V square wave, especially at higher frequencies. The Stax are an incredibly difficult load to power, because the load impedance is unreasonably difficult to deliver power to at the extremes. A little thing that can be interesting is to check is Bob Katz measurements of the KGSSHV Carbon doing square waves at different frequencies, you can clearly see that the higher you go in frequency the harder it is for the amp to deliver a perfect or close to perfect wave. Note that this was a somewhat crude testing setup (not a capacitive load), but it works for simply being illustrative.

Now, if the KGSSHV Carbon, which is an extremely competent amp still has struggles with the load presented by the Stax headphones, then what about the much smaller and simpler Stax amplifiers which do not even have a regulated power supply? I think you can see where I'm going with this. From a purely theoretical standpoint designing an "overkill" aftermarket electrostatic amplifier makes a ton of sense. Even if it's only because Stax themselves won't (or can't) do it.

Basically Gilmore amps are closer to theoretical perfection because they are:

-Not current limited, unlike Stax amps (with a few exceptions for both).
-Use regulated power supplies, which again helps with delivering power into difficult loads at transient peaks and the like.
-Designed with better output stages (global feedback, no plate resistor loading etc.)

Whether you believe this makes an audible difference or not is up to you. But it is harder to design a well measuring amplifier which needs to put out power in the hundreds of volts rather than tens, at most. You can also see this if you compare a headphone amplifier with a speaker amplifier, the headphone amp is almost always less noisy, has less distortion and so on. Because it is easier to design something transparent at low power. You can compare some of the best measuring headamps on ASR to some of the best measuring speaker amps to see what I'm getting at."


----------



## T3RIAD

playmusic said:


> Could someone please explain the physics behind the difficulty to drive e-stat headphones at higher frequencies?



E-stat headphones and speakers are capacitive loads, which means their impedance decreases as frequency increases. Imagine there is a positive charge on one stator, and a negative charge on the other during the positive peak of a sine wave. Now, in order to reproduce the full swing of the wave, that charge has to reverse by the time you get to the negative peak.

For high frequencies, this swapping back and forth of charge happens really quickly, which means it requires more current to move the charge fast enough. Stax amps apparently can't manage a full +/- swing above 10 kHz when the amplitude is high. At least, that's how Kevin Gilmore explained it.

When people say their third-party amp improved the bass response, I don't believe it because bass frequencies are easiest to reproduce on e-stats. But if they say it improved the top end at high volumes, then that's plausible.


----------



## armani006

BowWazoo said:


> Mr. Rauenbühler is sending me a Sirrah to test today, I'm curious


Version 3.0 ?


----------



## BowWazoo (Aug 26, 2020)

Yes


----------



## Tugbars (Aug 26, 2020)

Answer to playmusic's question:
(disclaimer: if somebody knows better than me, feel free to bash me.)

Simply put, in higher frequencies, the amp has much less time to fill the stators with enough statical charge.(the louder you listen the harder it gets) at 20hz, it has 1/20 second to fill the stators with statical charge but at 20khz, it has only 1/20.000 seconds to do that(things are not that simple of course) So the current must be high enough to deliver enough charges in time. If it can't, the voltage sags. As the voltage sags, the signal integrity starts failing.


----------



## Tarttett

GarageBoy said:


> Does such a board exist in any form for the T1 series?


@Firschi has developed CCS modules for the various series of the SRM-T1.


----------



## BowWazoo (Aug 27, 2020)

I borrowed the Sirrah, not because I was dissatisfied with the 252s, but out of curiosity to see if I could hear a difference between it and another amp.

To be honest, I started the comparison, biased:
"very probably you won't hear any difference," I said to myself
But it turned out differently.

After listening to EDM, jazz and rock for a few hours, I increasingly had the impression that the Sirrah was more precise, especially in the high frequencies.
Surprisingly, I also had a similar impression in the Bass. There is definitely more "Controll".
Also the Music seemed even more "coherent" with the Sirrah.

Especially in the high frequencies, the 252s often seems "clumsy" or "immature"
At least in direct comparison to the Sirrah.

It is somewhat contradictory
because the Sirrah is more present in the treble, and more detailed and at the same time less aggressive.

Anyway, the Sirrah replaces the 252s.


----------



## armani006

BowWazoo said:


> Yes


waiting for your feedback..


----------



## BowWazoo (Aug 26, 2020)

Give me one sec.
Can't stop now...


----------



## vitop

Hello
I hope someone can help. I was reading the STAX II thread and it had some instructions and photos for converting a 100V SRM717 to a 117V unit. I opened it up and I think even though it is marked as 100V in the back, that someone has already converted it.

Can someone comment on these photos? I think it is already set up but I don't want to plug it in until I know for sure. The board looks good, but am I supposed to move any other wires or check other wires? I didn't follow that part all too well and I am going to go back and try and re-read it. Also, am I supposed to change out the fuse? What should the value be for 117V usage?

Thanks!


----------



## Mach3

vitop said:


> Hello
> I hope someone can help. I was reading the STAX II thread and it had some instructions and photos for converting a 100V SRM717 to a 117V unit. I opened it up and I think even though it is marked as 100V in the back, that someone has already converted it.
> 
> Can someone comment on these photos? I think it is already set up but I don't want to plug it in until I know for sure. The board looks good, but am I supposed to move any other wires or check other wires? I didn't follow that part all too well and I am going to go back and try and re-read it. Also, am I supposed to change out the fuse? What should the value be for 117V usage?
> ...



Posted by saoudad
Regarding Voltage input to a 717 and 007t I can clarify that:

The power supply transformer has 7 tap on the input side which are
Yellow= common (winding 1)
(1)White=same as yellow (winding 1)
(2)Green=100v tap (winding 1)
(3)Purple=120v tap (winding 1)
(4)Black=common (winding 2)
(5)Brown=100v (winding 2)
(6)Blue=120v (winding 2)

Six jumper bar for voltage change number 1 thru 6
1 thru 4 are to select:1=100v 2=120v 3=100v 4=120v 5=220/240 6=100v/120v
So for 100v you install one bar each for 1,3,6.
For 120v you install one bar each for 2,4,6.
For 220v/240v you install on bar each 3,5.


----------



## jsts

Mach3 said:


> Posted by saoudad
> Regarding Voltage input to a 717 and 007t I can clarify that:
> 
> The power supply transformer has 7 tap on the input side which are
> ...


----------



## kevin gilmore

there is a thermal fuse between yellow and white.


----------



## vitop

Saoudad

thanks for your resonse
It looks like this is how this is set up already.
Is that all that needs to be dome? Does the fuse need to be changed from the one used for 100V?
Thanks!



Mach3 said:


> Posted by saoudad
> Regarding Voltage input to a 717 and 007t I can clarify that:
> 
> The power supply transformer has 7 tap on the input side which are
> ...





kevin gilmore said:


> there is a thermal fuse between yellow and white.


Kevin
Do you have any idea if the value of that fuse needs to be different between a 100V and a 117V?

I'm going to try and follow that circuit tonight. It's simple enough that even I can do it


----------



## playmusic

T3RIAD said:


> For high frequencies, this swapping back and forth of charge happens really quickly, which means it requires more current to move the charge fast enough. Stax amps apparently can't manage a full +/- swing above 10 kHz when the amplitude is high. At least, that's how Kevin Gilmore explained it.





Tugbars said:


> Simply put, in higher frequencies, the amp has much less time to fill the stators with enough statical charge.(the louder you listen the harder it gets) at 20hz, it has 1/20 second to fill the stators with statical charge but at 20khz, it has only 1/20.000 seconds to do that(things are not that simple of course) So the current must be high enough to deliver enough charges in time. If it can't, the voltage sags. As the voltage sags, the signal integrity starts failing.



Thank you for your feedback. These two explanations look consistent in themselves.
Still, I am not convinced that they actually match with reality.

The part that is hard for me to grasp is that if these above problems occured in reality then they would show up in a massive deterioration of the frequency response of the combination SR-009s + Stax amp at higher volumes at frequencies > 10 kHz.
But I have not found any measurements on the internet that substantiate such a deterioration of the frequency response.
This might have two reasons:

There is no deterioration of the frequency response > 10 kHz at high volumes.
Measurements > 10 kHz at high volumes have not been made or published.
I am inclined towards 1. But my following argumentation is not very strong.
The only measurement I found that seems to suggest that option 1 is true is the IM distortion measured by Steve Temme, Sean Olive et al. in "The Correlation Between Distortion Audibility and Listener Preference in Headphones". A Stax SR-009 + SRM-007tII is measured in the following way:
"The test procedure fixed one tone at 43.1Hz @ 94dB SPL and swept the other tone from 190 to 20k Hz at 94dB SPL."
Distortion was below 1% throughout the range up to 20 kHz. (Actually, there was in the beginning some equalization applied to the system to match it to some target.)
Ok, 94 dBSPL is not a very high volume and IM is not the frequency response measurement. I wish they had made the measurement at, say, 108 dBSPL.

Are you aware of any measurements that show a massive deterioration of frequency response of SR-009(s) + Stax amp above 10 kHz at hight volumes?



padam said:


> A little thing that can be interesting is to check is Bob Katz measurements of the KGSSHV Carbon doing square waves at different frequencies


The link to this measurement seems to be https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/katzs-corner-episode-18-icelandic-wonder but it does not work anymore.
Do you know where this article can be found?


----------



## tumpux

Stereophile should revive the Inner Fidelity articles soon.


----------



## Eich1eeF

playmusic said:


> The link to this measurement seems to be https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/katzs-corner-episode-18-icelandic-wonder but it does not work anymore.
> Do you know where this article can be found?


The answer is always the same: The wayback machine has a copy:
https://web.archive.org/web/2019051...tent/katzs-corner-episode-18-icelandic-wonder

If you ever suspect that a page might disappear or change, you can also use the wayback machine to archive pages.


----------



## BowWazoo

Let's play


----------



## T3RIAD

playmusic said:


> The part that is hard for me to grasp is that if these above problems occured in reality then they would show up in a massive deterioration of the frequency response of the combination SR-009s + Stax amp at higher volumes at frequencies > 10 kHz.
> But I have not found any measurements on the internet that substantiate such a deterioration of the frequency response.



Well, with some quick calculations we can see that the Stax SRM-353x, for example, can provide 400 V RMS of maximum output. The sensitivity of the SR-007, the most difficult of the current Stax lineup to drive, is 100 dB / 100 V at 1 kHz. That means the 400 V output of the SRM-353x can drive to SR-007 to around *112 dB SPL.*

However, according to KG, the amp becomes current limited at high frequencies around 150 V. That means it's maximum volume in the 10 kHz to 20 kHz range will be limited to around *104 dB*.

Whether that's noticeable or not would depend on how loudly you listen. It would not be visible in a 94 dB measurement. Considering most songs have less energy than average at such high frequencies, you would have to have the volume dial quite high to notice it.


----------



## RKarim

Anybody know what the effect (if any) burn-in has on Stax? Usually, I don't believe in burn-in, but Stax are complex and I don't understand them.


----------



## Tugbars (Aug 29, 2020)

Stax makes their headphones play pink noise for 1 week before they ship. So we don't have to worry about it. During  transportation due to cold, earpads might get stiff and it can take time for them to get back to their natural softness again. That's all.


----------



## RKarim

Tugbars said:


> Stax makes their headphones play pink noise for 1 week before they ship. So we don't have to worry about it.



Ah I seem. Thank you for this information.


----------



## BowWazoo (Aug 30, 2020)

Well, the Topping E30 inspires me.
The 16x oversampling, done by the Neutron Player and transmitted to the E30 with 32bit and 705.6Khz, does the sound really good.
So it really sounds more "analog"


----------



## RKarim

BowWazoo said:


> Well, the Topping E30 inspires me.
> The 16x oversampling, done by the Neutron Player and transmitted to the E30 with 32bit and 705.6Mhz, does the sound really good.
> So it really sounds more "analog"



How did you get your E30 to accept a 705.6kHz signal? The AKM chip only supports natively 384kHz.


----------



## The Jester

First visit to this thread, would anyone know the model of Stax headphones I have ...
seems an odd question but they were bought back in 1990 bundled with an SRM -Xh energiser ..
wondering if one or both is worth keeping or do the newer headphones and energisers sound way better ?


----------



## playmusic

T3RIAD said:


> However, according to KG, the amp becomes current limited at high frequencies around 150 V. That means it's maximum volume in the 10 kHz to 20 kHz range will be limited to around *104 dB*.


Thank you @T3RIAD for mentioning that the 'high volume' at which the SRM-353x becomes current-limited was quantified by KG as 150 V.
Now I know when the effect (whether noticeable or not) would kick in for this amp.


T3RIAD said:


> The sensitivity of the SR-007, the most difficult of the current Stax lineup to drive, is 100 dB / 100 V at 1 kHz.


The impedance of the SR-007 is 170 kOhm, the capacitance 94 pF.
The SR-1, L700, 009, 009s have 145 kOhm and 110 pF. So, there is some difference in the physical parameters.

There is not really a difference in sensitivity among all of them (it is allways 100 or 101 dBSPL@100V), so the sensitivity would not explain why the 007 is difficult to drive.
Could you please explain in what way the "difficulty to drive" is experienced with the 007? Thank you.


----------



## mnemonix (Aug 29, 2020)

The Jester said:


> First visit to this thread, would anyone know the model of Stax headphones I have ...
> seems an odd question but they were bought back in 1990 bundled with an SRM -Xh energiser ..
> wondering if one or both is worth keeping or do the newer headphones and energisers sound way better ?



It's possibly a Stax SR Lambda Pro Classic

Your amp was introduced in 1992 and these were bundled with it.


----------



## T3RIAD

> There is not really a difference in sensitivity among all of them (it is allways 100 or 101 dBSPL@100V), so the sensitivity would not explain why the 007 is difficult to drive.
> Could you please explain in what way the "difficulty to drive" is experienced with the 007? Thank you.



I think because of it's darker sound signature, it has to be played louder to have the same perceived volume.


----------



## The Jester

mnemonix said:


> It's possibly a Stax SR Lambda Pro Classic
> 
> Your amp was introduced in 1992 and these were bundled with it.


That looks like the ones I have ... thanks for the info ...


----------



## BowWazoo

@RKarim 

The AK4493EQ accepts up to 768kHz PCM data and 22.4MHz DSD data


----------



## RKarim

BowWazoo said:


> @RKarim
> 
> The AK4493EQ accepts up to 768kHz PCM data and 22.4MHz DSD data



Huh. Yeah. It's a Windows limitation. Works fine with ASIO.


----------



## playmusic

T3RIAD said:


> I think because of it's darker sound signature, it has to be played louder to have the same perceived volume


Thank you for explaining the difficulty to drive the SR-007.


----------



## number1sixerfan

playmusic said:


> The impedance of the SR-007 is 170 kOhm, the capacitance 94 pF.
> The SR-1, L700, 009, 009s have 145 kOhm and 110 pF. So, there is some difference in the physical parameters.
> 
> There is not really a difference in sensitivity among all of them (it is allways 100 or 101 dBSPL@100V), so the sensitivity would not explain why the 007 is difficult to drive.
> Could you please explain in what way the "difficulty to drive" is experienced with the 007? Thank you.



I'm not sure why this comes up so often or why it's so controversial. But specs aside, plug the 007 into any amp and it's harder to drive than the 009 and others. It just is, and it has nothing to do with sound signature or anything. That said, it's a very unique stat that I really, really enjoy.


----------



## trumpet19019

I'm currently running an L700 mk2 with an srm 252s. Eventually I want to sell that amp with an L300 that is blu tak modded and has l700 pads + a stepdown converter as a set. I will need a new amp. The stax srm353x, mjolnir octave v2, and mjolnir tiny triode are all in the same price range. Which of those amps do you think would work best with the L700? Any other amps that I should take into consideration? My dac is a topping d30.


----------



## playmusic

number1sixerfan said:


> I'm not sure why this comes up so often or why it's so controversial. But specs aside, plug the 007 into any amp and it's harder to drive than the 009 and others.


I wonder whether your question "why this comes up so often or why it's so controversial" refers to me asking several questions on the 007 and 009(s) or whether you refer to a long list of forum members who have asked the same question before.

Concerning myself, I just want to get a better understanding of the limitations of a Stax system and the areas where Stax excells.
Then I can listen carefully for these areas in an audition before I make a purchase decision.

Besides the obvious physical requirements to match headphone and amplifier (like impedance and sensitivity of headphone and max power and current of amp) I have no idea what the difficulty to drive a headphone means.


number1sixerfan said:


> It just is, and it has nothing to do with sound signature or anything.


If this is true then my attempt to get a better understanding via physical parameters in this thread is likely to be not successful.
Anyway, this would be a learning for me, too.

Thank you to all forum members who contributed to my questions in this thread so far.


----------



## Tugbars

There are more things involved in defining how hard electrostatic headphones to drive. Factors such as tension of the diaphragm, how it's acoustically damped etc plays a role too.


----------



## jsts

jsts said:


> Finally I developed and manufactured a board for CCS-MOD for my SRM-600. I'm starting to solder the parts



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ccs-mod-for-stax-srm-600.941255/

CCS-mod is complete. Briefly: trebles became more detailed, medium are the same, bass became are more dense and textured. I am happy  I would like to once again say my most heartfelt thanks to Dr. Kevin Gilmore, Mr. J. Lin, Mr. Mjölnir aka spritzer and all people who inspired with their experience and passion.


----------



## Andrew Seeley

Congratulations are in order! Very cool,


----------



## kevin gilmore

Very very nice job


----------



## number1sixerfan (Sep 1, 2020)

playmusic said:


> I wonder whether your question "why this comes up so often or why it's so controversial" refers to me asking several questions on the 007 and 009(s) or whether you refer to a long list of forum members who have asked the same question before.
> 
> Concerning myself, I just want to get a better understanding of the limitations of a Stax system and the areas where Stax excells.
> Then I can listen carefully for these areas in an audition before I make a purchase decision.
> ...



My apologies, has nothing to do with you and that wasn't really directed at you. It just comes up quite frequently, and as someone that has the 007, 009 and others.. and 3 stax amps it sometimes makes me feel like I'm losing my mind when it's questioned so constantly lol

Stepping back, I think there's the argument that many are making that you don't need a $5k amp to power the 007 or even 009. That much I think is true, and there's a lot of good amps and bargains out there. But unless something is wrong with my amps, the 007 is definitely a little (nothing extreme or crazy, just noticeably) harder to drive.. so I just don't get why it's a constant topic of conversation. But again, something could be wrong with my amps or me in general lol..

Lastly, I'll say that while I see the purpose in analyzing specs, graphs, etc.., nothing beats your hearing and real life experimentation. Try as much as you can to find out directly for yourself.


----------



## playmusic

number1sixerfan said:


> My apologies, has nothing to do with you and that wasn't really directed at you.


Thank you for the clarification, I just wasn't sure how to understand it.


number1sixerfan said:


> But unless something is wrong with my amps, the 007 is definitely a little (nothing extreme or crazy, just noticeably) harder to drive.


Thank you for putting the "difficulty to drive" into perspective.


number1sixerfan said:


> [...] nothing beats your hearing and real life experimentation


Indeed, I am looking forward to the next opportunity to listen to Stax earspeakers.


----------



## JimL11

jsts said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ccs-mod-for-stax-srm-600.941255/
> 
> CCS-mod is complete. Briefly: trebles became more detailed, medium are the same, bass became are more dense and textured. I am happy  I would like to once again say my most heartfelt thanks to Dr. Kevin Gilmore, Mr. J. Lin, Mr. Mjölnir aka spritzer and all people who inspired with their experience and passion.



Nice job! Glad you like the results.


----------



## BowWazoo

Sirrah v3


----------



## Pahani

trumpet19019 said:


> I'm currently running an L700 mk2 with an srm 252s. Eventually I want to sell that amp with an L300 that is blu tak modded and has l700 pads + a stepdown converter as a set. I will need a new amp. The stax srm353x, mjolnir octave v2, and mjolnir tiny triode are all in the same price range. Which of those amps do you think would work best with the L700? Any other amps that I should take into consideration? My dac is a topping d30.


Can't compare those specific energisers, but my impressions with my L700 Mk 1 with the ones i have......

252S is sure an okay starting point for what it was at the time I bought it.
SRM-1/MK-2 definitely steps up the detail vs 252S, though my particular unit sounds a touch bass-light and may need to be recapped due to age.
353X sounds the best of the 3 units I have. Have not heard anything else to compare it to.

Mjolnir of course has a great reputation in my eyes, and I wouldn't be afraid to try them but have no experience.

If you can find an SRM-1 cheap enough and in good condition? Yeah, my ears say it's a fairly substantial step up from 252S...and you also gain a "Normal" Stax output if you happen to run across vintage earspeakers  1 Pro output, and 1 Normal output.


----------



## armani006

BowWazoo said:


> Sirrah v3


So how it sounds? Do you have Stax amp to compare?


----------



## BowWazoo

BowWazoo said:


> I borrowed the Sirrah, not because I was dissatisfied with the 252s, but out of curiosity to see if I could hear a difference between it and another amp.
> 
> To be honest, I started the comparison, biased:
> "very probably you won't hear any difference," I said to myself
> ...


----------



## vitop

This is interesting! 
I wonder how it compares to some of the other STAX amps


----------



## armani006

I have 006tII with CCS-mode, not sure that Sirrah is better... but could be interesting to compare them..


----------



## armani006

BowWazoo said:


> Sirrah v3



Mr. Rauenbuehler uses NEotech UP-OCC copper wires inside of the amps, gut to know.


----------



## GarageBoy

Do I need polarity adapters to use the balanced inputs on a stax amp with a modern dac like a schiit modius? (T1s)


----------



## theweezle

Hey guys, sorry if this has been answered.

My stax 207's recently broke on the pin that holds the driver to the headset.

I was wondering if this headband would actually fit on a 207.


----------



## paradoxper

armani006 said:


> Mr. Rauenbuehler uses NEotech UP-OCC copper wires inside of the amps, gut to know.


Yea. That should be your singular take away from this mediocre POS.


----------



## RKarim

Hello Guys,

Need some help. Whenever I push my Stax L300 to high volumes/certain frequencies, there is a very audible (and annoying) crackling sound (for example during certain bass hits). I've had my headphones replaced by Apos, and the issue persists, so I must assume that this has to do with my amp.

My Stax amp is a SRM-323S that I bought used on the site. It seems to be in good condition. I've attached some photos of the circuits to this post. Would anyone be willing/able to help me diagnose this problem?

Thanks.


----------



## RKarim

Addition: I can confirm that this "clipping" doesn't happen unless my volume passes 6.


----------



## Chimmy9278 (Sep 5, 2020)

Hello Guys,

I am planning to get myself a pair of 009's, but I do not have an amp to drive them. I have posted a classified here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wtb-electrostatic-amp.941673/#post-15846397, but just mentioning if anyone here has a used amp that is under $5000 USD you can offer me. Ships to NY, USA. (T2 anyone?)

Not really wanting to DIY since mouser parts are mainly from China, and the shipping is slowed by the pandemic, plus literal virus threat. And so DIY is not preferred.

Lastly, I do want to know if anyone here can compare hd820 with 009's. Thank you for looking!

BTW, do I need a preamp with lets say the KGSSHV or something alike?


----------



## paradoxper (Sep 5, 2020)

Chimmy9278 said:


> Hello Guys,
> 
> I am planning to get myself a pair of 009's, but I do not have an amp to drive them. I have posted a classified here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wtb-electrostatic-amp.941673/#post-15846397, but just mentioning if anyone here has a used amp that is under $5000 USD you can offer me. Ships to NY, USA. (T2 anyone?)
> 
> ...


You absolutely will not grasp a T2 for that budget.

Plenty of alternatives.

Search the For Sale forum for a Carbon.


----------



## Tugbars

you don't want any preamp unless you want to color the sound. 
KGSSHV Carbon Black is still available for 4800$. You can talk to Birgir(mjolnir-audio) via mail, he is shipping to USA as far as i know.


----------



## JimL11

Chimmy9278 said:


> Hello Guys,
> 
> I am planning to get myself a pair of 009's, but I do not have an amp to drive them. I have posted a classified here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wtb-electrostatic-amp.941673/#post-15846397, but just mentioning if anyone here has a used amp that is under $5000 USD you can offer me. Ships to NY, USA. (T2 anyone?)
> 
> ...



Kerry lives in the NYC area. You could contact him at another website - not sure if I'm allowed to name it but if you PM me I can tell you. He builds pretty much all the KG amps. Also a used BHSE should be within your budget. A used T2 would be at least twice what you want to pay. All of those amp can be fed directly from the source without the need of a preamp.


----------



## Chimmy9278

Thanks guys, didn't see the response was on a second page. Didn't know the T2 was that expensive. The thing with Birgir is he is shipping from Ice land last time I got a cable from him, so I am not sure how much extra it is know to ship it to USA because of the pandemic.


----------



## paradoxper

Chimmy9278 said:


> Thanks guys, didn't see the response was on a second page. Didn't know the T2 was that expensive. The thing with Birgir is he is shipping from Ice land last time I got a cable from him, so I am not sure how much extra it is know to ship it to USA because of the pandemic.


I just had a 30lb amplifier shipped from Sweden to the US FedEx Priority for $269 to give you a reference. A few bucks to realize your endgame.


----------



## RKarim

What are you guys's opion on high-amp.de?


----------



## vitop

RKarim said:


> What are you guys's opion on high-amp.de?


It seemed like worth trying out. I did contact he is unwilling to make any for US voltage. He does have the parts lists and drawings available for the units, but while I am able to solder, I don't feel I could troubleshoot if ang went wrong. I think the only thing I did not see on his site was the info to get the cabinetry. The Sirius looked like an interesting unit. You would have to get a voltage converter to use it though unless you were able to use it in Europe or had the ability to modify it.


----------



## Chimmy9278

JimL11 said:


> Kerry lives in the NYC area. You could contact him at another website - not sure if I'm allowed to name it but if you PM me I can tell you. He builds pretty much all the KG amps. Also a used BHSE should be within your budget. A used T2 would be at least twice what you want to pay. All of those amp can be fed directly from the source without the need of a preamp.


I did PM you, mind sending me his contacts? And what would be his price?
Ps. Does Woo amps actually hurt the HPs?


----------



## DecentLevi (Sep 5, 2020)

Hey guys, glad to find this Stax thread! I've had a Stax L300 Limited Edition for a while which IIRC is supposed to be equivalent to the L700, with this custom mod I did to further improve soundstage and bass. It's paired with my Stax SRM-1 MKII which, although is in good condition, to me it's just always been lacking in the bass quantity & impact, and especially in dyanmics. @Pahani I read your interest in this energiser and if you want I can sell it to you after finding a good replacement. It does have excellent detail and soundstage, but to me it's really lacking in dynamics / slam; as well as bass but I believe that's a trait of the headphone design.

I need advice on an upgrade to my SRM-1 MK2 please. My budget is _no more than_ $1500 and I'm especially interested in the standalone transformer concept, that way I can fine-tune the sound by trying its' synergy with various speaker amps. I'm seeking a somewhat darker sound, with much improved dynamics or 'slam' to the drums, but keeping a good soundstage and detail. I'm aware of the Mjolnir SRD-7 option, but was told from other users that amp synergy is very difficult to achieve like only 2/10 pairing well.

However Mjolnir Audio has told me they're having supply issues getting Lundahl transformers, and other users told me the standard SRD-7 is not as transparent as the Lundahl version (does that go under a different model number)? Any recommendations would be much appreciated.


----------



## xcom

Hello all, I just join the ESTAT's STAX game 

I first got the Nectar Sound The Hive, and now wanted to try STAX, so I got me the L700 MKII and, I am super happy with the L700 so far!


----------



## padam (Sep 6, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> Hey guys, glad to find this Stax thread! I've had a Stax L300 Limited Edition for a while which IIRC is supposed to be equivalent to the L700, with this custom mod I did to further improve soundstage and bass. It's paired with my Stax SRM-1 MKII which, although is in good condition, to me it's just always been lacking in the bass quantity & impact, and especially in dynamics.
> I need advice on an upgrade to my SRM-1 MK2 please. My budget is _no more than_ $1500


You could wait for another used SRM-727II, one literally just got sold here for like 750$ or maybe less, it is almost like it's given away at that price.
It is really not bad at all, especially after the feedback mod, which is quite simple to do (but it is only SR-007 which is a particularly bad match without the feedback mod, the rest might be Ok for some people as-is)
I have gotten an SRM-1 Mk2 recently, it is quite decent for the price, but the SRM-727II is a good improvement in terms of dynamics and extension.
There is also the highly regarded SRM-717 which is fairly close to it, needs no modding at all and it is a little bit warmer still (slightly more bass), slightly more diffused but similarly good dynamics.


----------



## JimL11

Chimmy9278 said:


> I did PM you, mind sending me his contacts? And what would be his price?
> Ps. Does Woo amps actually hurt the HPs?




PM sent. No idea on pricing, depends on what amp you are interested in. The potential issue with Woo amps is the bias safety resistor is not always the same as what Stax uses, which is around 5 megohms. Woo seems to be much more casual in terms of using different values or omitting it, at least in the past, according to spritzer (aka Mjolnir Audio).


----------



## JimL11

DecentLevi said:


> Hey guys, glad to find this Stax thread! I've had a Stax L300 Limited Edition for a while which IIRC is supposed to be equivalent to the L700, with this custom mod I did to further improve soundstage and bass. It's paired with my Stax SRM-1 MKII which, although is in good condition, to me it's just always been lacking in the bass quantity & impact, and especially in dyanmics. @Pahani I read your interest in this energiser and if you want I can sell it to you after finding a good replacement. It does have excellent detail and soundstage, but to me it's really lacking in dynamics / slam; as well as bass but I believe that's a trait of the headphone design.
> 
> I need advice on an upgrade to my SRM-1 MK2 please. My budget is _no more than_ $1500 and I'm especially interested in the standalone transformer concept, that way I can fine-tune the sound by trying its' synergy with various speaker amps. I'm seeking a somewhat darker sound, with much improved dynamics or 'slam' to the drums, but keeping a good soundstage and detail. I'm aware of the Mjolnir SRD-7 option, but was told from other users that amp synergy is very difficult to achieve like only 2/10 pairing well.
> 
> However Mjolnir Audio has told me they're having supply issues getting Lundahl transformers, and other users told me the standard SRD-7 is not as transparent as the Lundahl version (does that go under a different model number)? Any recommendations would be much appreciated.



So, options within your budget. The standard SRD-7 is standard bias only. The SRD-7 Mk II or Pro has pro bias. A standard SRD-7 can be converted to have pro bias if you are willing to do a little DIY or have someone do it for you.

Of the standard Stax amps, the SRM-323 is the least expensive, the SRM-717 is probably the best stock amp. These are supposed to be better than the SRM-1 but I can't address how they do with respect to dynamics and bass from personal experience as I have not heard them. The SRM-727 is a bit better if the global feedback mod is done  (DIY, or I believe Justin at HeadAmp can do it if he sells you the amp). I personally prefer a modded SRM-T1 series with CCS mod to the 727, if you are willing go do some DIY or have someone do it for you, but it is also old enough that it would need the electrolytic caps replaced also. A T1 that is further modded to use ECC99 tubes is reportedly a little better yet (about 10% more current capability) but I have not heard one so cannot say from personal experience.


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## DecentLevi (Sep 7, 2020)

padam said:


> You could wait for another used SRM-727II, one literally just got sold here for like 750$ or maybe less, it is almost like it's given away at that price.
> It is really not bad at all, especially after the feedback mod, which is quite simple to do (but it is only SR-007 which is a particularly bad match without the feedback mod, the rest might be Ok for some people as-is)
> I have gotten an SRM-1 Mk2 recently, it is quite decent for the price, but the SRM-727II is a good improvement in terms of dynamics and extension.
> There is also the highly regarded SRM-717 which is fairly close to it, needs no modding at all and it is a little bit warmer still (slightly more bass), slightly more diffused but similarly good dynamics.


Thanks for your advice, will look out for a good deal on those, probably leaning closer towards the 717 since you said it's a warmer sound, but hopefully not enough to make it dark or lacking detail with the L300 L.E.'s (limited edition)? And can you explain what you mean by 'diffused' (not a common term I guess)? And did you mean the feedback mod may only be useful on the likes of SR-007 - or may it have any good effect on these Lambda's too? The initial rig I heard the L300 L.E.'s on was the newer Stax SRM-D50 energiser and I was actually quite impressed, liking the sound much better than with my SRM-1 MKII. Am I correct in assuming the 717 or 727II are received as being even better than the D50?

@JimL11 looks like you agree with Padam on a few points. Do you have any opinions on my questions above too?
And that's interesting you prefer a Stax tube amp (SRM-T1). I've always thought e-stat headphones always sound better with a little tube buffer in the chain, and these have them internally. Would you mind to explain your preference for this over the 727, in what ways is it better to you? And which SRM-T1 model would you recommend?


----------



## padam (Sep 7, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks for your advice, will look out for a good deal on those, probably leaning closer towards the 717 since you said it's a warmer sound, but hopefully not enough to make it dark or lacking detail with the L300 L.E.'s (limited edition)? And can you explain what you mean by 'diffused' (not a common term I guess)? And did you mean the feedback mod may only be useful on the likes of SR-007 - or may it have any good effect on these Lambda's too? The initial rig I heard the L300 L.E.'s on was the newer Stax SRM-D50 energiser and I was actually quite impressed, liking the sound much better than with my SRM-1 MKII. Am I correct in assuming the 717 or 727II are received as being even better than the D50?



Yes, there amps should be a good improvement over the D50 and are good until you go to the DIY route, which lift up the constraints of Stax amps (a more compact footprint, lower power consumption, readily available mass-market parts, etc.).

Check out this review to have a better idea:
https://positive-feedback.com/Issue12/staxomega.htm

And here is another opinion:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-new.223263/page-670#post-5448390

Here is another one:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/stax-sr-007-omega-ii-electrostatic-headphones-page-3

As you can see there is a ton of information but because the sum of all Stax threads are like several thousand pages long, it needs some digging up. Although interestingly if you scroll down just a little, you can see another different opinion on it, it is always going to be subjective and the KGSS was the original version, there has been a lot of revisions since then (although the pricing has gone to very high levels as well, in the past, even an old Blue Hawaii wasn't that much more expensive than a Stax amps).

In my experience, the modified SRM-727II is a little tighter, more controlled (less midbass) and better separated than the SRM-717.
But I would like to emphasise that the two are _very similar_ after modding, just a _slight bit_ more refined, neutral-warm, where the highs gently start to rub off a little. It is the extreme frequencies where the limitations of Stax amps are most apparent.

What I mean that the SRM-727II becomes more linear after the mod, in theory it is not good to have the it without global feedback, but in practise it may not sound bad with certain headphones. It is a an odd design choice that may work for some people.

By the way, I also have the SRM-T1S here (not modded) and it is even more open and warmer than the SRM-727
It is more impressive when you compare the two amplifiers side-by-side because the midrange is sweeter, the sound is warmer, more relaxed (there is added tube bloom to the bass which makes it better at lower volumes) and it has a more open space.
However, there are some things with the solid-state amps that grows on you over time (it is flatter but cleaner, more dynamic and it has a blacker background)

I think people's opinions may heavily differ when they are switching between headphones, amps or DACs, "vigorously" looking for differences between them, compared to just listening to a particular setup for a long period of time, living with that kind of sound, and evaluate it from that point-of-view. A headphone meet where you have noise (which I think is a very big distraction) and an ever shorter amount of time is an even more extreme example.


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## Pahani (Sep 7, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> Hey guys, glad to find this Stax thread! I've had a Stax L300 Limited Edition for a while which IIRC is supposed to be equivalent to the L700, with this custom mod I did to further improve soundstage and bass. It's paired with my Stax SRM-1 MKII which, although is in good condition, to me it's just always been lacking in the bass quantity & impact, and especially in dyanmics. @Pahani I read your interest in this energiser and if you want I can sell it to you after finding a good replacement. It does have excellent detail and soundstage, but to me it's really lacking in dynamics / slam; as well as bass but I believe that's a trait of the headphone design.
> 
> I need advice on an upgrade to my SRM-1 MK2 please. My budget is _no more than_ $1500 and I'm especially interested in the standalone transformer concept, that way I can fine-tune the sound by trying its' synergy with various speaker amps. I'm seeking a somewhat darker sound, with much improved dynamics or 'slam' to the drums, but keeping a good soundstage and detail. I'm aware of the Mjolnir SRD-7 option, but was told from other users that amp synergy is very difficult to achieve like only 2/10 pairing well.
> 
> However Mjolnir Audio has told me they're having supply issues getting Lundahl transformers, and other users told me the standard SRD-7 is not as transparent as the Lundahl version (does that go under a different model number)? Any recommendations would be much appreciated.


Oh, I already have an SRM-1 of my own, was just giving a little comparison to the one higher Energiser I also own.

Between Padam and Jim, you've received solid advice and more experience than I could contribute. I DO think SRM-1 is a very competent entry energiser for those with limited funds and just entering the Stax world. After that, what you desire is determined mostly by your budget (or in the case of T-2, scarcity as well).

Jim has also published a very nice DIY article that would be VERY interesting if I had any electronics experience whatsoever. I have high esteem for Jim's knowledge and opinions


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## JimL11 (Sep 8, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks for your advice, will look out for a good deal on those, probably leaning closer towards the 717 since you said it's a warmer sound, but hopefully not enough to make it dark or lacking detail with the L300 L.E.'s (limited edition)? And can you explain what you mean by 'diffused' (not a common term I guess)? And did you mean the feedback mod may only be useful on the likes of SR-007 - or may it have any good effect on these Lambda's too? The initial rig I heard the L300 L.E.'s on was the newer Stax SRM-D50 energiser and I was actually quite impressed, liking the sound much better than with my SRM-1 MKII. Am I correct in assuming the 717 or 727II are received as being even better than the D50?
> 
> @JimL11 looks like you agree with Padam on a few points. Do you have any opinions on my questions above too?
> And that's interesting you prefer a Stax tube amp (SRM-T1). I've always thought e-stat headphones always sound better with a little tube buffer in the chain, and these have them internally. Would you mind to explain your preference for this over the 727, in what ways is it better to you? And which SRM-T1 model would you recommend?



According to Kevin Gilmore, the D50 circuit is the same as the 353 but run at lower current and lower voltage power supplies. He says the circuit of both is similar to the 717 but simplified, with resistors in place of current sources. Due to biasing issues, spritzer feels the 717 sounds too warm and the 353 too bright.

Padam has given a good description of the differences between the 727 and the unmodified T1. The CCS modification tightens the bass of the T1, extends the high end and improves the detail, clarity and and dynamics while leaving the midrange intact - overall it sounds more linear than the unmodified amp IMO. It more than doubles the effective power because the signal current is no longer being burned up in the output plate resistors. To my ears, the T1 sounds more refined than the 727, which sounds a bit coarse and gritty by comparison. A couple of my audiophile friends who have much better ears agree with me.


----------



## DecentLevi

The SRM-T1 tube amp seems interesting and could tick quite a few boxes for most of us, but for me I'd prefer a somewhat warmer sound to make up for the modestly bright of neutral sound of the L300's, and I always use a tube amp as a 'tube buffer' into my electrostat systems anyway, so that would probably correct any dryness of the SRM 727 II which is what I'm hoping to get.


----------



## JimL11 (Sep 9, 2020)

I would add that a used SRM-T1 series is around $600 compared to a used SRM-727II which is generally north of $1000. Parts cost for the CCS mod including replacement electrolytic caps and heatsinks is around $100 (a bit more if you use a Gilmore circuit board), and can be built in less than a day.


----------



## buzzlulu

While at CanJam NY February 2019 I had the chance to speak with Douglas from Stax and when I inquired about an update to the 007 he winked his eye. 
I did not have the chance to speak with him at CanJam NY 2020 however we are now almost at 2021. Anything in the rumour mill about an 007 update?


----------



## padam

Afaik, nothing more is planned for this year.


----------



## buzzlulu (Sep 11, 2020)

Thanks.
I have a demo pair of 007’s coming to me this weekend. I am going to run it through its paces on my Birgir Carbon and compare it to my 009S.

I am looking to expand my Stax repertoire and try to add something new. I think I may be able to achieve a different flavor with a new pair of headphones (007) rather than an additional new amplifier. Current setup is the 009S/Carbon and L300LE/353XBK LE and I am not sure an additional amplifier will change things up enough when compared to my current amps.  Carbon is totl and I do not think the BHSE will be different enough from it. Better off trying a new headphone.


----------



## padam

Yeah, it is probably a good compliment since everything starts with the recording. And even if the people who make them would be forced to use use one particular set of headphones (speakers) as a reference point, they would still have a very different idea on how to make them.

Comparing side-by-side it is easy to declare the 009S as the winner thanks for the added clarity (which some consider to be 'artificial') but also the increased sensitivity (some may also add in the matter of cost). Without matching the two perfectly, it is difficult to do a fair comparison. To add even more fuel to the fire, they probably work best at slightly different listening levels, due to the sound signature differences.
And from the listening point-of-view, it is probably better to choose one and get accustomed to it for days, and compare it after the brain got used to all the fine nuances that go with that type of sound, when it is an A-B comparison, some of these things will start to disappear, as the brain is 'configured' for spotting differences.


----------



## GarageBoy

The L700 and used sr007 are about the same price. How different are they? How will they differ from my l300?


----------



## playmusic

buzzlulu said:


> Anything in the rumour mill about an 007 update?


The only product development I am aware of is that the Edifier CEO mentioned at the end of 2018 the development of a new Omega earspeaker:
youtube


----------



## VRacer-111 (Sep 11, 2020)

GarageBoy said:


> The L700 and used sr007 are about the same price. How different are they? How will they differ from my l300?



L300 is more shouty with a more intimate sound presentation... L700 gets you a smoother sound with better defined low end and more pleasant treble. SR007 ups it some from the L700, adding more detail and warmer, even more present low end, though its sound presentation is more intimate than the L700.

Put it this way, I bought and sold L300's twice... keeping my L300 Limited over them every time (which extremely similar sounding to the L700 when using the L700 pads and headband assembly - you can only really tell the difference between them listening intently back to back...)


----------



## treebug

Forgive me if this has been answered already but I'm considering the SR-009S with the SRM-700S. Have spotted the odd comment here and there about them being a little underwhelming together and wondered if this is the general consensus for this pairing?


----------



## padam

treebug said:


> Forgive me if this has been answered already but I'm considering the SR-009S with the SRM-700S. Have spotted the odd comment here and there about them being a little underwhelming together and wondered if this is the general consensus for this pairing?


Unfortunately there aren't that many impressions about it. But on paper, it should be very similar to the SRM-717
Might as well just get the 717 instead for three times less and save some money (Stax amps are very very reliable)
It just seems to be the sweet spot without starting to do some modifications to the amps, or spend much more on something aftermarket that is not mass-produced.


----------



## Schlaudi

Hi Guys, 

as you already perhaps read in my SRM-1 MK2 upgrade thread i have some questions about my missing parts. Would be pleased if you could answer some: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-srm-1-mk2-early-a-version-missing-parts-for-upgrade.942335/

I listened today for a few hours and had the unit running with open case next to me. It was really hot in the office today (30 degree) and i decided to measure the Temperature with a infrared thermometer. All parts of the second channel (all resistors and caps with 2xx) were 20 degree hotter than the 1xx parts. Is this normal?
Also the 35v 470uf cap was over 80 degree all the time. Are this temperatures within the normal range?

BR
Andi


----------



## lawshredpower

Hi, everyone!

I recentlyI bought a Stax SRM-007ta amp and the volume knob is loose. The inner part is spinning on itself, not spinning the pot. I can still control the volume with the front part but it seems there are two screws missing to tighten the knob.

Does anybody know where can I get replacement screws? If I have to buy a whole knob fine by me as well. Thanks!


----------



## Firschi

I bet the two grub screws are still in place inside the threading but need to be tightened. You'll need a 2,5mm hex head screw driver to do so.


----------



## lawshredpower (Sep 15, 2020)

Firschi said:


> I bet the two grub screws are still in place inside the threading but need to be tightened. You'll need a 2,5mm hex head screw driver to do so.



they are not, sadly

EDIT:

I confess I skimmed through your message. Only now I’ve ready HEX. That’s why I thought the threading was empty. I was looking for a regular screw. I am stupid but now I am a happy stupid. Problem solved, thanks a MILLION and sorry for being hasty! Hooray


----------



## Chimmy9278

Hello Guys, I finally got my END GAME set up. Kerry's KGST with 007MK2, getting the source from a turntable and ibasso DX220 MAX (when it comes) Most organic and detailed sound I have ever heard! 

The wait was the most painful thing I have experienced during delivery day.


----------



## paradoxper

Chimmy9278 said:


> Hello Guys, I finally got my END GAME set up. Kerry's KGST with 007MK2, getting the source from a turntable and ibasso DX220 MAX (when it comes) Most organic and detailed sound I have ever heard!
> 
> The wait was the most painful thing I have experienced during delivery day.


Congrats, Chimmy.

Kerry does such great work.


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## Chimmy9278

Truly, his amp is beautiful in sound and looks!


----------



## paradoxper

Chimmy9278 said:


> Truly, his amp is beautiful in sound and looks!


And, he too, is a great person. Which does count!


----------



## gammarayson

I would like to find a convenient way of protecting my 32 year old Lambda Pros from dust, but do not want to use Stax's own stand and dustcover. The former is a bit hard on the headband. Any alternative suggestions?


----------



## BowWazoo

Today I made a cinch cable.
 Inakustik NF 202 reference.


----------



## DecentLevi

I got a used SR-727 II energiser modded from another user here. A few impressions later. I've been curious does anyone know when Stax manufactured the 727's? I'm trying to pinpoint a general timeframe when mine was made. The user told me something about 2013, but to me it looks more like an 80's design.



Chimmy9278 said:


> Hello Guys, I finally got my END GAME set up. Kerry's KGST with 007MK2, getting the source from a turntable and ibasso DX220 MAX (when it comes) Most organic and detailed sound I have ever heard!
> 
> The wait was the most painful thing I have experienced during delivery day.


Awesome to hear about an endgame. I hear that term being thrown around here colloquially until something better is 'discovered'. Which are some of the other energizers you've tried to compare it to such as Blue Hawaii, KGSSHV, etc.?


----------



## JimL11

DecentLevi said:


> I got a used SR-727 II energiser modded from another user here. A few impressions later. I've been curious does anyone know when Stax manufactured the 727's? I'm trying to pinpoint a general timeframe when mine was made. The user told me something about 2013, but to me it looks more like an 80's design.
> 
> 
> Awesome to hear about an endgame. I hear that term being thrown around here colloquially until something better is 'discovered'. Which are some of the other energizers you've tried to compare it to such as Blue Hawaii, KGSSHV, etc.?



Here is a website that lists when Stax products were introduced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stax_products

According to this, the SRM-727A was introduced in 2006, the SRM-727 II in 2007.


----------



## ahmedie

buzzlulu said:


> Thanks.
> I have a demo pair of 007’s coming to me this weekend. I am going to run it through its paces on my Birgir Carbon and compare it to my 009S.
> 
> I am looking to expand my Stax repertoire and try to add something new. I think I may be able to achieve a different flavor with a new pair of headphones (007) rather than an additional new amplifier. Current setup is the 009S/Carbon and L300LE/353XBK LE and I am not sure an additional amplifier will change things up enough when compared to my current amps.  Carbon is totl and I do not think the BHSE will be different enough from it. Better off trying a new headphone.


Try perun headphones they sound different than all Stax and more like zmf (very natural) phones bcz of wood cups !


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## Andrew Seeley (Sep 20, 2020)

Does anyone know anything about the T1W? Looks like it features an adjustable bias, 480 to 580V.

Could Jim's CCS modification be done to the T1W? It features the Same circuit as the T1/S?


----------



## JimL11

Andrew Seeley said:


> Does anyone know anything about the T1W? Looks like it features qn adjustable bias, 480 to 580V.
> 
> Could Jim's CCS modification be done to the T1W? It features the Same circuit as the T1/S?



It does have the adjustable bias. Electrically, the CCS mod could be done but physically, you would have to find a way to mount the heatsinks for the CCS. In the T1 and T1S the heatsinks can be mounted to the side of the chassis near where the output plate resistors were on the circuit board, however in the T1W the circuit board is oriented so the output plate resistors are just behind the volume control, so you would have to rig up some sort of bracket to locate the heatsink roughly where the output resistors used to be.


----------



## Contrails

G’day.

I am selling my SR007 MK1 (71992) in the classifieds.

Regards,


----------



## vitop

Contrails said:


> G’day.
> 
> I am selling my SR007 MK1 (71992) in the classifieds.
> 
> Regards,


Did you find something you like better?


----------



## Contrails

Yes. Beats Solo. The Transients are so fast, I can’t even make out what’s I am hearing.

In all seriousness, I am listening to my Vinyl and speakers more often and I wanna upgrade my phono, so need to free some cash.


----------



## vitop

ah... Beats Solo. Of course. The creme de la creme of headphones


----------



## Hubert481

those do not look very happy - what might be the reason therefore?


----------



## makan

Has anyone heard of these electrostats?
http://www.soltanusacoustics.com/reviews/


----------



## padam

You would think that for a company like this, spelling the SR-009 name correctly wouldn't present much of a challenge.


----------



## armani006 (Sep 25, 2020)

makan said:


> Has anyone heard of these electrostats?
> http://www.soltanusacoustics.com/reviews/


what about prices?


----------



## arnaud

So many fishy specs and mentions in the web page, oh my...


----------



## padam

armani006 said:


> what about prices?


Three versions for 1500€, 2000€ and 2500€ roughly
And the driver unit is an additional 1000€


----------



## dagothur

makan said:


> Has anyone heard of these electrostats?
> http://www.soltanusacoustics.com/reviews/


I'm wary of any new e-stats because of how hard they seem to be to get right, but competition for Stax is good.
I like the "If Audeze made e-stats" aesthetic, but why not use a 5-pin Stax cable instead of dual 3-pin? The Stax plug is already balanced if I'm not mistaken. 
" A separate lever on each side for recordings with too much treble"
I'd rather a $1k+ headphone be tuned properly to not need this. I understand EQ but this feels like a really weird choice.
" with the biggest membrane surface used in headphones "
If I'm not mistaken, a larger diaphragm on an e-stat isn't better as it's harder to control modal vibrations over a bigger surface.  Someone more well-versed feel free to educate me here.
Their Fortissimo amp doesn't have balanced inputs or a dual concentric volume knob.  All of their headphones are e-stats, so why doesn't the amp reflect it?  
I'd like to know how they sound but there's a lot of effort in advanced design and manufacturing but it lead to some confusing decisions.


----------



## armani006

I would be glad to read an independent review of this HPs..


----------



## Andrew Seeley (Sep 26, 2020)

I am wondering what material the stator may be as well as how they produce it. They look nice. At least they they are attempting to be detailed.


----------



## arnaud (Sep 26, 2020)

Edit: about the brand existence, there actually are some publications and audio show presences dating back to 2015 or so (on the web page), so at least this appears to be a legitimate attempt rather than a scam (my bad if this is just me not knowing a famous player in the high end speaker market!)
Edit 2: @Jon L , thank you for the pic below, it is indeed a flat ribbon cable
Edit 3: the stereophile 2015 ssi show report posted on the publication page (http://www.soltanusacoustics.com/publications/#group_964-5) mentions about Zoltan Mikovity, based of serbia, who started in by refurbishing some old quad estat units. The headphones appear to use the same dual driver ( low+high frequency ) design as used for the estat loudspeaker presented at the show. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The website mentions about rigid copper wire mesh for the stator.

Maybe the product is well engineered and built but the following makes me a bit dubious (in no particular order):
- The claimed rigidity of a "rigid" copper wire mesh (even if segmented as it seems)
- The method used to ensure dust stays out of the capsule if the user truly can indeed replace the membrane himself
- The method used to tension the membrane (critical to control the free air resonance frequency and max displacement under load I think) if the user truly can indeed replace the membrane himself
- The mention itself about the user replacing the membrane easily: is this headphone or the step up transformer amp sold with prone to cause arcing? Or is it simply the same dreaded parasitic noise and imbalance issue of unsealed capsule?
- What seems like a large amount of acoustic damping used either sides of the driver (is that for acoustic purpose or just to make it look elegant or to hide the misery behind?)
- Along a similar line, the gorgeous pictures of the assembled product but absolutely nothing of the insides (is there something to hide?)
- No picture of cable but the plug would perhaps indicate a round cable without spacing between traces yet  the capacitance (90pf) sounds very low
- The step up transfomer without any internal pics or details about how safe behavior is unsured (after all you are swinging hundreds of volts very nearby the skin...)
- The claim that the headphone are the heritage of other high quality speaker designs yet the brand itself seems like it just came out of the woods 3 days ago (makes it look like a cover-up attempt to hide a 1 man garage operation or worse yet a quick cash grab scheme based on vaporware)

I think there were a few more when I browsed through yesterday but probably sufficient to illustrate how skeptical I am at this early stage... Hopefully the manufacturer can step in and correct the above as, after all it’s nice to have an alternative to stax and especially coming at it from a fresh look without locking oneself into the same proved out designs (we don’t need a stax ersatz).

So, who is going to take one for the team  ? On another site, I am sure some famous stat zealot is already planning to take this apart so maybe I do a google search next .


----------



## Jon L (Sep 26, 2020)

dagothur said:


> but why not use a 5-pin Stax cable instead of dual 3-pin? The Stax plug is already balanced if I'm not mistaken.
> " A separate lever on each side for recordings with too much treble"



IMO, it is very odd to go with mini 3-pin XLR to 3-pin XLR cable ESPECIALLY since their electrostat amp and transformer driver come with Stax 5-pin connectors Anyway.  This means one cannot plug in their 'stats into established 'stat amps to compare with Stax 'stat, for example. 

Their electrostat amp also comes with speaker outputs as well as non-electrostat headphone outputs, which leads me to believe it's not a true 'stat amp but a speaker amp that uses transformers to generate 'stat output and transformer and/or resistors to generate non-stat headphone outputs, much like Audiovalve Solaris amp.


----------



## makan (Sep 26, 2020)

Ok. So I brought this to the thread coz I saw it being sold by a bonafide Canadian dealer....- little too expensive for me to take one for the team

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/det...iche-electrostatic-headphones-with-amplifier/


----------



## paradoxper

Since his local expert said it was so much better than Euphoria, you should definitely be as so dumb to give him your money.


----------



## Jon L (Sep 26, 2020)

makan said:


> Ok. So I brought this to the thread coz I saw it being sold by a bonifide Canadian dealer....- little too expensive for me to take one for the team
> 
> https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/det...iche-electrostatic-headphones-with-amplifier/



Huh, those photos show non-ribbon, round cables used.  I wonder if they are an earlier version since their website now shows flat ribbon cables. 

Having said all that, I do hope these Soltanus electrostat headphones are quality units and sound great.  I am Always in favor of more electrostat options.

One factor may be in our favor.  Doing some digging, it seems Soltanus actually started as electrostat speaker company with the Soltanus ESL Virtuoso electrostat speaker (Mk I) around 2012, which sports a rather glowing review in 6 Moons in 2014. (if that still counts for something).  Perhaps the company does have some electrostat chops and skills to introduce a good 'stat headphone, I'm hoping.
https://6moons.com/audioreviews2/soltanus/1.html


----------



## makan

I am going to see if the dealer is willing to send it to me for a demo with a view to purchase. I am intrigued by them and the company does have a history of electrostat speakers


----------



## makan

makan said:


> Ok. So I brought this to the thread coz I saw it being sold by a bonafide Canadian dealer....- little too expensive for me to take one for the team
> 
> https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/det...iche-electrostatic-headphones-with-amplifier/


Maybe @spritzer might want to comment on this headphone.


----------



## Jon L

makan said:


> I am going to see if the dealer is willing to send it to me for a demo with a view to purchase. I am intrigued by them and the company does have a history of electrostat speakers



If the dealer is willing to do that (would be surprised), if you want to purchase, do mention to them that the transformer box back panel is upside down.


----------



## dagothur

makan said:


> Maybe @spritzer might want to comment on this headphone.


I don't think he's used Head-Fi in quite a while, but if someone emails him about it we might learn some colorful Icelandic profanity.


----------



## arnaud

Well spotted @Jon L about the cable and panel . For the latter, one could argue it’s on purpose for frequent plugging/unplugging of cables while the amp is on a rack (instead of reading labels backward) but that’s a far fetch ;-p


----------



## arnaud

I've reached out to Zoltan through the website, not sure if he will respond or join here but it would be nice if he can put all my fears to rest by just responding here


----------



## makan

Jon L said:


> If the dealer is willing to do that (would be surprised), if you want to purchase, do mention to them that the transformer box back panel is upside down.


So, I received a reply that it got sold to someone from my own province/state. That sold pretty fast. He said that he brought some of their speakers to the montreal audio show back on 2015 and wanted to introduce the headphones to that show this year, but of course got COVID cancelled.


----------



## John Massaria

Thaudiophile said:


> Better than 009/007?


how much?


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

How does the Stax 009s / 007 sound compare to the Susvara?


----------



## joseph69

Green Golden Retriver said:


> How does the Stax 009s / 007 sound compare to the Susvara?


This is a total matter of preference.
I owned all 3 (007mk2 & 009 at the same time) and I preferred the Susvara.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

joseph69 said:


> This is a total matter of preference.
> I owned all 3 (007mk2 & 009 at the same time) and I preferred the Susvara.


Thank you . I only own the Susvara but my friend really like the Stax and told me it’s really good but he just sold the Stax so I did not have a chance to listen to the Stax so I have always been wondering how the Stax sounds like.

Could you please let me know why you prefer the Susvara to the Stax ?

thanks


----------



## joseph69 (Oct 2, 2020)

Green Golden Retriver said:


> Thank you . I only own the Susvara but my friend really like the Stax and told me it’s really good but he just sold the Stax so I did not have a chance to listen to the Stax so I have always been wondering how the Stax sounds like.
> 
> Could you please let me know why you prefer the Susvara to the Stax ?
> 
> thanks


In short, amplification (BHSE in my case) for the Stax is limited to only electrostatic headphones, and though I enjoyed both the 007mk2 & 009 very much I found that owning an amplifier that will drive other types of headphones (besides electrostats, of course) provided much more variety.
I also enjoyed the Susvara's presentation due to its detail, depth, height, clarity and smooth sound. I'm not saying that the 007mk2 & 009 didn't have these traits, because they did, I just felt the Susvara excelled in these traits, as well as being more Genre friendly.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

joseph69 said:


> In short, amplification (BHSE in my case) for the Stax is limited to only electrostatic headphones, and though I enjoyed both the 007mk2 & 009 very much I found that owning an amplifier that will drive other types of headphones (besides electrostats, of course) provided much more variety.
> I also enjoyed the Susvara's presentation due to its detail, depth, height, clarity and smooth sound. I'm not saying that the 007mk2 & 009 didn't have these traits, because they did, I just felt the Susvara excelled in these traits, as well as being more Genre friendly.


Thank you for the detailed explanation 🙏


----------



## joseph69

Green Golden Retriver said:


> Thank you for the detailed explanation 🙏


You're welcome.
Also, I spent almost 3yrs with Stax and just felt the need for a change, like I always do as with most things in life.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

joseph69 said:


> You're welcome.
> Also, I spent almost 3yrs with Stax and just felt the need for a change, like I always do as with most things in life.


Would you say the Susvara is the best sounding headphone you ever heard or among the top?


----------



## joseph69

Green Golden Retriver said:


> Would you say the Susvara is the best sounding headphone you ever heard or among the top?


All 3 headphones we've mentioned above are among some of best headphones I've ever heard, but there are plenty of other headphones that give/gave me just as much pleasure listening to, regardless of their cost.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

joseph69 said:


> All 3 headphones we've mentioned above are among some of best headphones I've ever heard, but there are plenty of other headphones that give/gave me just as much pleasure listening to, regardless of their cost.


Nice 👍


----------



## Mach3

How does the Susvara compares to the Abyss 1266 Phi TC?
I'm curious as I've listen to the Abyss 1266 Phi TC before and can conclude it better than the $4000 LCD4.
But I still prefer the speed and clarity of my Stax.


----------



## playmusic

I am trying to understand the specifications of Stax amplifiers at high output levels.
A typical example is the SRM-007t2:
Frequency response: DC-100 kHz / +0, -1.5 dB 
Rated input level: 200 mV / 100 V Outputs 
Maximum output voltage: 340 V r.m.s. / 1 KHz 

So, the frequency response is stated for the rated output level of 100 V. That is clear.
But the maximum output voltag is only stated at 1 kHz.
Does this mean that the frequency response above 100 V output could be all over the place?
And that the maximum output voltage is unspecified for frequencies above or below 1 kHz?


For the SRM-D10:
Frequency response: 20 Hz – 40 kHz (+0dB,-3dB) 
Rated input level: 230 mV (100V output) 
Maximum output voltage: 200 V r.m.s / 100 Hz-10 kHz.

Does it mean that I should not be surprised by a massive drop in the frequency response below 100 Hz and above 10 kHz when the D10 is outputting more than 100 V?

These specificiations seem to translate into the following:
Stax amplifiers meet hifi standards up to 100 V (which generates around 100 dB SPL with typical Stax headphones).
Higher levels are possible, but the performance is (essentially) not specified.

Would this be a correct interpretation of the specifications published by Stax?


----------



## Makiah S

playmusic said:


> I am trying to understand the specifications of Stax amplifiers at high output levels.
> A typical example is the SRM-007t2:
> Frequency response: DC-100 kHz / +0, -1.5 dB
> Rated input level: 200 mV / 100 V Outputs
> ...



Well it's not 1khrz it's 100 K Hrz, so 100,000 but that does seem kinda odd... also honestly buy your self a stax amp form Mjolnir Audio... quality is outstanding and sound quality is exceptional. Price wise find a model that suit's what your looking for and @spritzer will likely help guide your purchase based on what you need and have budget for

Alsoooooooooooooooo L700 MK2 is in for review!


----------



## T3RIAD

playmusic said:


> I am trying to understand the specifications of Stax amplifiers at high output levels.
> A typical example is the SRM-007t2:
> Frequency response: DC-100 kHz / +0, -1.5 dB
> Rated input level: 200 mV / 100 V Outputs
> ...



I think what you're asking is "does the frequency response potentially change at high volumes?" The answer is yes, though it's not as bad as your post implies. While the frequency response is given at 100 V output, that doesn't mean it's going to look like crap at 105 V.

Having said that, according to others in the industry, because the amp enters a current-limited mode instead of a voltage-limited mode at high frequencies, the actual maximum output will in fact drop. You will see the frequency response drop at higher frequencies at high volumes.

 I think I remember reading that this happens around 180 V at 20 kHz for the SRM-353x. Not sure if it's any different for the SRM-007tII. The SRM-D10 would be limited to around 150 V at 20 kHz. Drop down to 10 kHz and both can reach their maximum voltage.

Unfortunately these numbers aren't published anywhere, so I'm just relying on what people like Kevin Gilmore have said.


----------



## ahmedie

bottlehead new electrostatic amplifier.

https://bottlehead.com/product/stat-electrostatic-headphone-energizer/


----------



## Mach3

Yes, but is it any good?


----------



## armani006

ahmedie said:


> bottlehead new electrostatic amplifier


any text reviews?


----------



## gurbina93 (Oct 8, 2020)

Question from a broke STAX lover who likes to crank up the volume.

I've got the L300 and the SRM-252S, I'm super happy with the L300... I just love them but on any busy track or with deep bass I get distortion starting at medium volume... I can't get past 1-2 o'clock, past 3 it's unlistenable due to crazy amounts of distortion specially on industrial or anything with deep beats.

It is being fed from a Topping D50s in line out mode (2V).

I EQ the L300 +1-4dB on average in the bass and mid bass region (frequencies between 10 and 150). I tried lowering the gain in certain frequencies to see if that would get rid of the distortion but I basically have to bring it almost all the way down to be able to crank up the volume without any distortion.

Is this an amp limitation? What options do I have?

Will replacing the wall wart for another one at 12V 0.7A or 12V 1A fix the issue? I read somewhere in the STAX threads that the included wall wart (12V 0.5A) doesn't deliver enough power to the SRM-252S, that changing it for a 12V 0.7A (1A or anything higher) improves the voltage swings (and decreases the volume distortion at high volume). If replacing the wall wart to what extend will I be able to increase the volume without distortion? Right now it's 2 o'clock where the distortion starts to appear, a new wall wart will take me to 3, maybe 4 if so?
Will getting a SRM-353X fix the issue? There's a local one up for grabs for 600USD, and the guy will throw in a Kaldas RR1. Don't know the reason why is he letting it go, but I wouldn't mind another set of cans and two amps.
I also have the option to get a D50 locally for about 600USD.
Any other recommendations within the same price range new or used? I just want to be able to crank up the volume...

Also I have some electronic skills, so with proper documentation I would be able to mod the SRM-252S if there's any mod to get more power out of it.

One last question, is there any chance of damage to the L300 if I listen to them at high volume? With EQ I tend to listen to 2-3 o'clock as I'm just increasing bad and mid bass and lowering gain, so the volume effectively goes down overall and I need to crank the volume to 2-3 o'clock on my 252S to get be able to achieve "high" volume levels, which isn't nowhere near deafening when EQed and the gain is lowered 7-9dB.


----------



## Tugbars

I remember this was the case with my SRM252 and L300. You can't crank the volume up past 1-2 clock. Even around 12' it starts distorting badly. 
You can't squeeze out more power from 252S much through modding and moreover, that amp has bigger problems than just lack of power.

Stay away from D50 amp, 353X is great, if you want to aim to get more power check head-case.org for DIY amps. (I don't think L300 would benefit from a lot of power though)


----------



## gurbina93 (Oct 8, 2020)

Tugbars said:


> I remember this was the case with my SRM252 and L300. You can't crank the volume up past 1-2 clock. Even around 12' it starts distorting badly.
> You can't squeeze out more power from 252S much through modding and moreover, that amp has bigger problems than just lack of power.
> 
> Stay away from D50 amp, 353X is great, if you want to aim to get more power check head-case.org for DIY amps. (I don't think L300 would benefit from a lot of power though)



Thanks for the reply, I am happy with the L300 sound by EQing and giving it a slight bump in the bass/mid bass region, I am just quite unhappy with the volume levels I can achieve with it when paired to the 252S.

3 to 3:30 it's the sweet spot that would make me happy but I have to stick to 12-1 for now.

Would the 353X be able to deliver that? I find it quite a good deal getting a 353X and a Kaldas RR1 for 600 bucks in near mint condition locally. My 252S would probably find a home bedside and the 353X take it's place at my home office.

Another option is a  Mjolnir Audio SRD-7 directly from Mjolnir, these go for around 700 USD.


----------



## Tugbars

353X can go much louder than SRM252S.
SRD7 is just an energizer, you need to use a speaker amp with that.


----------



## Terozzzz

Hi STAX heads!! Im getting/buying Lamda SR and it has and "SRM-11 tube amp" but i cant find any info on internet about them amp. Anyone knows this amp?


----------



## padam

I think it is the SRM-T1, a very good amp.


----------



## Terozzzz

Yes it is the T1.


----------



## Tugbars

it's a SRM-T1 probably.(ops padam was faster)


----------



## BowWazoo

My Vesperaudio earpads for the 507 should arrive soo. 
I'm very excited and at the same time unsettled. 
Because the experiences with these pads seem to be very limited. 
Except for the member Armani, there is probably nobody here who has installed these pads. 
Switching the pads back and forth is apparently not that easy. In the meantime I have also read that with the Lambda it should not be recommended to enlarge the space between the driver and ear. Can someone tell me more on the whole subject?


----------



## joseph69

Terozzzz said:


> Hi STAX heads!! Im getting/buying Lamda SR and it has and "SRM-11 tube amp" but i cant find any info on internet about them amp. Anyone knows this amp?


Maybe you mean SRM-t1/w?


----------



## Tugbars (Oct 11, 2020)

BowWazoo said:


> My Vesperaudio earpads for the 507 should arrive soo.
> I'm very excited and at the same time unsettled.
> Because the experiences with these pads seem to be very limited.
> Except for the member Armani, there is probably nobody here who has installed these pads.
> Switching the pads back and forth is apparently not that easy. In the meantime I have also read that with the Lambda it should not be recommended to enlarge the space between the driver and ear. Can someone tell me more on the whole subject?



driver-ear distance is something that you wouldn't like to mess with  if you do not know what you are doing. For example, in case of increasing the distance between ear and driver, SR007 starts getting shoutier overall, especially around 1-1.5khz region, it starts getting terribly shouty. Also to my ears, bass becomes boomy and mids get textured so much that microdetail isn't apparent anymore. (That's why mk2.5 sucks so much) SR507's 8-10khz energy is a bit too much to my ears, increasing the distance between ear-driver can help. However, SR507 is shouty already, I don't know how mids would sound if you push that distance a bit farther.


----------



## BowWazoo

OK thanks.
the point is that the distance, due to the Vesperaudio pads, will inevitably increase. Well, just trying it out helps...


----------



## GarageBoy

EDIT: someone beat me to it


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 12, 2020)

So I got a Stax SRM-727 energiser unit with steup-up 120v and direct control switch mod switch, which I think means the 'feedback mod'. It's for my L300 Limited Edition headphones. I was coming from a Stax SRM-1 MK2 energiser.

The basic differences I'm hearing are both bass and soundstage improved by around 20%... and thus far it seems that's it. Barely enough to justify the purchase. Listening to almost any music through this system is just not desirable, with the ENORMOUS emphasis on the top vs. low end; very sparkly & splashy analytical treble and bass that while accurate is just leaving a big gaping void in weight & amount. The other issue is dynamics. Drums do NOT move air as much as they should or cut through the mix with authority as they do with my dynamic headphones such as HD-600 with a good aftermarket cable and hefty amp behind it. Certainly they sound accurate and even lifelike, but they just lack in slam.

At the same time I love these headphones when it comes to non-rhythmic use such as for movies, TV and field recordings (sound art). That's where this system REALLY excels, realizing an _almost _4-dimensional sound as if I'm using 5.1 channel surround sound system. HUGE soundstage with almost infinite rendering of layers and voices sound so real, also often having to "pause" it and look around to see if the sound was coming from inside my house! That's the hallmark of truly top-tier audio reproduction and very difficult to achieve in the hobby. But like a true contradiction, every time a song comes on with any drums (rock, pop, electronic) is when I shrivel in my chair and want it to be over ASAP. It seems to be that treble emphasis and huge soundstage with accurate but not powerful bass is the perfect pill for most movies / TV shows, but not by a longshot for almost any music genres.

While I'm definitely more impressed with this than my SRM-1 MK2 energiser, I get the feeling there's much more to be desired, it still not overtaking my mid-fi HD-600 dynamic headphone setup. Also note that I am feeding it with a top-tier chain including a Qutest DAC with Neotech NEI-2001 cable to a tube amp (tube buffer) which is in fact yielding a darker / more laid back sound than the sheer brightness one would get by connecting the energiser directly to their DAC. Also I am in the process of improving things to some extent with ferrite beads (specific type of clip-on ferrite chokes) on both sets of RCA cables, as well as on the Stax AC power cable. This has actually improved things quite a bit in terms of adding warmth / 'realism' and toning down the highs. I was actually impressed at what a difference it makes for the Stax AC power cable.

The 727 is great, but I consider it just as a 'stepping stone' until finding something better. I recall early in the year I was actually pretty impressed with the L300 L.E.'s (even more than with the Sennheiser 'Baby Orpheus' in most regards) on the Hifiman Jade II energiser. I did read some awful teardown reports of the internals, but nontheless I think it just may have performed better than this (further comparison would be needed). Just out of curiosity which other energisers would someone recommend for further improved dynamic slam and bass weight?


----------



## OneOddPhoton

DecentLevi said:


> So I got a Stax SRM-727 energiser unit with steup-up 120v and direct control switch mod switch, which I think means the 'feedback mod'. It's for my L300 Limited Edition headphones. I was coming from a Stax SRM-1 MK2 energiser.
> 
> The basic differences I'm hearing are both bass and soundstage improved by around 20%... and thus far it seems that's it. Barely enough to justify the purchase. Listening to almost any music through this system is just not desirable, with the ENORMOUS emphasis on the top vs. low end; very sparkly & splashy analytical treble and bass that while accurate is just leaving a big gaping void in weight & amount. The other issue is dynamics. Drums do NOT move air as much as they should or cut through the mix with authority as they do with my dynamic headphones such as HD-600 with a good aftermarket cable and hefty amp behind it. Certainly they sound accurate and even lifelike, but they just lack in slam.
> 
> ...


Whoa...a cans of worms is about to open. Can't wait for the replies...


----------



## Tugbars (Oct 13, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> So I got a Stax SRM-727 energiser unit with steup-up 120v and direct control switch mod switch, which I think means the 'feedback mod'. It's for my L300 Limited Edition headphones. I was coming from a Stax SRM-1 MK2 energiser.
> 
> The basic differences I'm hearing are both bass and soundstage improved by around 20%... and thus far it seems that's it. Barely enough to justify the purchase. Listening to almost any music through this system is just not desirable, with the ENORMOUS emphasis on the top vs. low end; very sparkly & splashy analytical treble and bass that while accurate is just leaving a big gaping void in weight & amount. The other issue is dynamics. Drums do NOT move air as much as they should or cut through the mix with authority as they do with my dynamic headphones such as HD-600 with a good aftermarket cable and hefty amp behind it. Certainly they sound accurate and even lifelike, but they just lack in slam.
> 
> ...



apply the CCS mod. 727's output stage of amplification is out of the feedback loop, CCS mod fixes that. Stock 727 sounds bloated, mushy and bass sounds boomy and colored but CCS mod fixes all these problems to a great extent.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 13, 2020)

@Andrew Seeley You're the one who modded my 727, wasn't the CCS mod already done?
@Tugbars from what you're saying it would seem that mod would have already been applied. I could use a bit more bass and colored sound, as it's now fairly thin and clinical sounding.


----------



## Mach3

Tugbars said:


> 727


Pretty certain the 727 is solid state and already has the CCS, it just needs the feedback mod. 
It's the 007 tube type that requires the CCS.


----------



## paradoxper

DecentLevi said:


> So I got a Stax SRM-727 energiser unit with steup-up 120v and direct control switch mod switch, which I think means the 'feedback mod'. It's for my L300 Limited Edition headphones. I was coming from a Stax SRM-1 MK2 energiser.


If parsing your input correctly, the direct control switch mod switch you reference is actually just simply the direct switch that avoids duplication of the volume unit.

As such, perhaps you've misinterpreted the literature. Or your seller may have misled you.


----------



## Tugbars

ah ok, it was applied already. Sorry,


Mach3 said:


> Pretty certain the 727 is solid state and already has the CCS, it just needs the feedback mod.
> It's the 007 tube type that requires the CCS.



ops, thanks for the clarification


----------



## Andrew Seeley (Oct 13, 2020)

Woah, didn't see that coming from Oneoddphoton or anyone else. This was sold and delivered a month ago.
I included quality rca cables as requested and sold the unit for a little less than 750$ Shipped and $799 gross. where Ebay has them listed much higher. 1k and above as was recenty discussed here.

There are 56 pm message feeds between myself and Levi regarding the transaction privately available

The Last thing that happened and came was A thank you pm

with permission if there is some kind of miscommunication for readers and Oneoddphoton.
Your 727 has the feedback mod, yes. As was discussed.

I've also sold a multi thousand dollar audio processor and leant to a forum member in Dire need for two weeks. Feedback for the third transaction should post by Friday.

If someone is dissatisfied with Me. They should please communicate with Me first beforehand so that I can do my best to improve. The item was clearly well well packed, "almost too well packed" and delivered in two days, and Levi has Been listening to the feedback modified 727 since 9th or 10th. It was delivered September 8th. I have to do a double take and I feel obligated to speak up.

To clarify, Levi has a good modified 727 headphone amp most people are pleased with.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hey @Andrew Seeley you totally misread me. This had NOTHING to do with you or your product or service. It was packaged & shipped in top-notch order and your communication was good, you even were up front about the small cosmetic issues. The only reason I mentioned you on the last page was to clarify whether or not said CCS mod had already been applied - nothing more.

My mixed impressions of the 727 energiser had to do with the design of the Stax SRM-727 itself, and probably synergy with the L300 Limited Edition headphones (said to be the same as L700), which while I found have amazing soundstage & detail, was too bright / thin for most any music genres making it _thus far_ preferable only for the likes of movies. 

I'm also getting improved results using ferrite beads on the RCA cables and especially with them on the Stax AC power cable which is still in process (along with USB cable, etc.). I recommend anybody to experiment with STAR-TEC and STAR-TEC LFS ferrite beads of proper size for your cables for a more balanced and organic sound; the regular version works well to isolate high frequencies and the LFS version is for low frequencies, which both work well together.


----------



## OneOddPhoton

Apologies for appearing to throw the Cat amongst the Pigeons here. My post was inferring the (expected) onslaught of Stax Mafia Minions offering up opinions on KGSSHV Carbon etc. being the only options for the best results and that any modded Stax amp will not cut the mustard...as has been the case so many times on this forum.

No disrespect to the original seller was intended (or implied), or indeed to the Stax Mafia aficionados for that matter. 

Back to the topic at hand...

If the L300 Ltd does indeed sound like the L700, then from my experience (of owning the 700), they A) Take a very long time to burn in and B) Amp synergy has been more miss than hit. It took me 4 Amps to get the sound I was after. I had issues of flabby (overblown) bass that bled into the lower midrange and shouty treble. However, I do consider these 'properties' to be a representative of the tuning of the L700 (after an A/B session with a 009S) on the same KGST amp.


----------



## DecentLevi

Indeed I've been especially curious how the top Stax energisers stack up against the KGSSHV and Blue Hawaii? Or even the top units from Mjolnir Audio?


----------



## DougD

DecentLevi said:


> Indeed I've been especially curious how the top Stax energisers stack up against the KGSSHV and Blue Hawaii? Or even the top units from Mjolnir Audio?


Well that is a highly subjective question, and I haven't heard any of them, so I certainly won't offer up my impressions (directly.)

However, you CAN reasonably infer that the people designing and/or building the alternatives are doing so for one or more reasons, and AFAIK none of those reasons is that the top-tier Stax amps ... except the T2 ... are especially rare and hard to find. 

Now whether your ears and brain would perceive a benefit justifying the cost is really a question that only your brain could answer. 

Seattle seems to be a pretty active area for some serious headphone people. Hopefully at some point we will be able to get back to life as it used to be, and you may get to listen to some of these models at a local head-gathering. And then you will be better able to make an informed decision.


----------



## DecentLevi

I tried the Blue Hawaii around 5 years ago at one of the CanJams but can't remember much, and since then so much has changed with DACs, etc. it must be different. Looking for anyone here with recent experience with these. We can also infer alternatives are made to be even better than Stax.


----------



## padam

There are lot of options to consider, even with an amp like this, the SR-007 Mk2 will have more bass slam the the detail and imaging are on a whole new level, Lambdas just can't reach to those heights. It is a very different sound overall, but a decent match with the modified 727, which I think is a bit brighter and flatter than the hybrid Stax amps with tubes which do a good job at "rounding off" Lambdas, but not as dynamic.
They seem to be going for fairly decent prices used, an SR-L700 Mk2 costing more just shows how much Lambdas have gone up in price.

Also, if you change to a balanced source you become less dependant on cables (better noise rejection), the Stax amps (including the aftermarket amps) are inherently balanced by design, so you are eliminating an unecessary unbalanced->balanced conversion with that (you also get +6db gain which is set lower on the 727 compared to other amps) for me it becomes a bit warmer and more dynamic, a positive change.

Some people are driving a top-tier headphone with a mediocre amp that sounds congested but overall still on a much higher level of detail and imaging, while others do it the polar opposite way, and it is quite difficult to evaluate, which is best.
But whatever you get first, you might end up upgrading all three things, in which case, it is quite a huge jump in price (but also sound quality) people can only really argue about what's the best order to do that (and more crucially, where to "stop")

If you intend to stay with the L300LE, then the KGST or an SRX+ should be decent upgrades without going higher to a Carbon or a BH, as long as you find a good builder for them.


----------



## bigjako

padam said:


> If you intend to stay with the L300LE, then the KGST or an SRX+ should be decent upgrades without going higher to a Carbon or a BH, as long as you find a good builder for them.



I’m freshly into Stax and trying to upgrade my amp situation. Can you, or anyone else, recommend a good US-based builder?


----------



## padam

bigjako said:


> I’m freshly into Stax and trying to upgrade my amp situation. Can you, or anyone else, recommend a good US-based builder?


Kerry comes to my mind at first
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blue-hawaii-stax-amp-for-sale.932652/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-1273#post-15865857


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## Rushton (Oct 18, 2020)

[Edit: New home found; no longer available] I have a 35+ year old pair of Stax SRX Mk.3 headphones and SRD-7 adapter that I bought new, and a SRA-3S amplifier that I bought used that needs repair, all of which I'd like to give away to a good home for just the cost of shipping. The headphones play nicely but could use new ear pads. The SRA-3S amplifier plays, the caps seem okay with no leakage visible, but it has hum in both channels and circuit board plug-in sockets are cracked from a previous owner. With my SR009S headphones, I have no have a use for the SRX Mk.3 headphones and my wife says I need to get them out of the house. I'd hate to have them just end up in the landfill if someone would like to have them to play around with or possibly repair the amp. This is not a sale, it's purely a gift to someone willing to pay cost of shipping from Huntsville, Alabama. If you're interested, please PM me. They will be gone a week from today or sooner if someone takes them.






I recognize that this post should probably go in the For Sale forum, but I've been a long time reader with few posts so don't have privileges to post there. Since I'm giving these away and just looking for a good home, I hope the moderators will offer some grace and leave this up as something of value to members.


----------



## ESL-1

PM Sent....


----------



## Rushton

ESL-1 said:


> PM Sent....


Got it, thanks. Reply sent.


----------



## Rushton

Rushton said:


> I have a 35+ year old pair of Stax SRX Mk.3 headphones and SRD-7 adapter that I bought new, and a SRA-3S amplifier that I bought used that needs repair, all of which I'd like to give away to a good home for just the cost of shipping....



The headphones, adapter and amplifier have found a new home and are no longer available. Thanks to all for your support.


----------



## bigjako

padam said:


> Kerry comes to my mind at first
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/blue-hawaii-stax-amp-for-sale.932652/
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-1273#post-15865857



Thank you for that, I’d seen one of those ads before and looked him up but could only find some insurance company CEO.  Any ideas how to reach Kerry or someone else? I even put a job up on Upwork to see if any electrical engineers would bid on it, but no real luck.

I have one other related question - I’ve come across an opportunity to buy the amplifier from the Jade II system.  No phones, just the amp. Has anyone tried their Stax on the Jade amp and if so, does it do them justice more so than say a SRM-1/Mk2 or 323s? Or am I barking down the wrong, thin, dry tree?

thank you for any help!


----------



## padam

bigjako said:


> Thank you for that, I’d seen one of those ads before and looked him up but could only find some insurance company CEO.  Any ideas how to reach Kerry or someone else? I even put a job up on Upwork to see if any electrical engineers would bid on it, but no real luck.
> 
> I have one other related question - I’ve come across an opportunity to buy the amplifier from the Jade II system.  No phones, just the amp. Has anyone tried their Stax on the Jade amp and if so, does it do them justice more so than say a SRM-1/Mk2 or 323s? Or am I barking down the wrong, thin, dry tree?
> 
> thank you for any help!


https://www.head-fi.org/members/kerry.70759/

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/jade-ii-tear-down-rebuttal.903210/


----------



## Sound Eq

Greetings

Can I ask which is better as an amp Stax D50 or stax 353x for L300 limited edition


----------



## BenF

Sound Eq said:


> Greetings
> 
> Can I ask which is better as an amp Stax D50 or stax 353x for L300 limited edition


D50 sounds quite warm, so unless you want your headphone to sound warmer, look elsewhere.


----------



## nastypoker

I just received my L700mk2 + D10 + 353x and am just going through my test playlist.

So far, I couldn't be happier!


----------



## PointyFox

I think the L700MK2 is right up there with the TOTL dynamics and planarmagnetics, only getting beaten by a few much more expensive electrostatics. In terms of "scalability", the more power you have the better the bass extension from what I can tell.


----------



## batfier

gurbina93 said:


> Question from a broke STAX lover who likes to crank up the volume.
> 
> I've got the L300 and the SRM-252S, I'm super happy with the L300... I just love them but on any busy track or with deep bass I get distortion starting at medium volume... I can't get past 1-2 o'clock, past 3 it's unlistenable due to crazy amounts of distortion specially on industrial or anything with deep beats.
> 
> ...



not sure, if it helps with your distortion issue, but when using EQ, I highly recommed using EQ settings, created against a target like Harman AE/OE and with professional equipement, like e.g. from "oratory1990"

https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets
=>L300 LTD is part of the list

I'm using the Harman AE/OE settings for the 009/s and I'm really happy. Its sounds much more realistic to me and I can hear much longer, even louder with much less fatigue.


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## Sound Eq (Oct 20, 2020)

BenF said:


> D50 sounds quite warm, so unless you want your headphone to sound warmer, look elsewhere.


that is really interesting that D50 sounds warm, which is very welcomed

The question is it powerful enough, to drive from example stax 007mk2, or 009s in case one wishes to upgrade to one those headphones later, or would the stax 353x be a better choice. I know many say stax 007mk2 needs a very powerful amp, so that is why i am asking.


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## Tugbars

D50 is weaker than 353X.


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## Sound Eq

Tugbars said:


> D50 is weaker than 353X.


but both have  Maximum Output Voltage: 400V RMS


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## BenF

Sound Eq said:


> that is really interesting that D50 sounds warm, which is very welcomed
> 
> The question is it powerful enough, to drive from example stax 007mk2, or 009s in case one wishes to upgrade to one those headphones later, or would the stax 353x be a better choice. I know many say stax 007mk2 needs a very powerful amp, so that is why i am asking.


D50 will drive 009/009S just fine, won't drive 007.
Anyway, making the already dark sounding 007 even warmer would be a bad idea.


----------



## Sound Eq

BenF said:


> D50 will drive 009/009S just fine, won't drive 007.
> Anyway, making the already dark sounding 007 even warmer would be a bad idea.


but is the 353x more powerful than D50, as I saw both are having same  Maximum Output Voltage: 400V RMS


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## BenF

Sound Eq said:


> but is the 353x more powerful than D50, as I saw both are having same  Maximum Output Voltage: 400V RMS


I have no experience with 353x, but if both are 400V RMS, then they should be equally powerful.


----------



## PointyFox

I've heard a few people/companies calling it an "improved 353X". So there's some disinformation going around.


----------



## Sound Eq

PointyFox said:


> I've heard a few people/companies calling it an "improved 353X". So there's some disinformation going around.


was not good enough for ur stax l700 mk2, what are you using now

I got the chance to buy a used stax 353x for 600 usd but wonder if maybe th D50 is a better choice, in both scenarios I will use another dac


----------



## Eich1eeF

BenF said:


> I have no experience with 353x, but if both are 400V RMS, then they should be equally powerful.


No. Power is the product of voltage and current - slightly complicated by the fact that we're discussing AC into a capacitor. So what's the max current for the 353x and the D50?


----------



## PointyFox

Sound Eq said:


> was not good enough for ur stax l700 mk2, what are you using now
> 
> I got the chance to buy a used stax 353x for 600 usd but wonder if maybe th D50 is a better choice, in both scenarios I will use another dac



I thought it was excellent, however I was unable to A/B it at the time with other energizers.


----------



## batfier

Sound Eq said:


> that is really interesting that D50 sounds warm, which is very welcomed
> 
> The question is it powerful enough, to drive from example stax 007mk2, or 009s in case one wishes to upgrade to one those headphones later, or would the stax 353x be a better choice. I know many say stax 007mk2 needs a very powerful amp, so that is why i am asking.



D50 drives the 009 pretty well. i liked the darker voicing of the D50 with the 009. 

but I returned two D50 units, as both had some hum in one of the channels, when they were warmed up. looked like a more general issue. but this was ca. 1-2 years ago. so I hope, that stax had fixed it in between.

furthermore the dac section was ok, but not the greatest I have heard and the unit runs quite warm.

the 007 is harder to drive. not sure if 353x or D50 is the optimal match here.


----------



## talan7

I’m new to electrostatic. I just purchased the Kaldas RR1 along with the Stax 323 energizer and have fallen in love with stats. I need some help. I’m interested in the SR-007 mk2. What’s the difference between the SR007a and the SR007 mk2? Is the SR007a the mk1?


----------



## padam (Oct 22, 2020)

SR-007 MK2 (black) and SR-007A (silver/black) are the same headphones, except the colours to differentiate export vs domestic (although as far as I know, now you can order both colour schemes from anywhere as a special order, they have called the black version SR-007A BL in Japan)

The earlier SR-007 Mk1 is simply called SR-007 available in champage/brown or it was avaliable in champagne/black as an export model, also known as SR-007BL
Or if a brown SR-007 Mk1 gets a full service from Stax including a cable repair, they will probably replace everything - cable, arc assembly, earpads - with black parts, so it will look exactly like the SR-007BL as well.


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## PointyFox (Oct 22, 2020)

The MK1 had a design issue that would cause stress on the cables and cause them to break with repeated flexing. Stax removed some material in the MK2 so the cables wouldn't be stressed, but this created a lack of seal and therefore bass. The Spritzer BluTack mod seals the area with a flexible material to restore the bass and seems to increase it further over the MK1. The MK2 also had a slight pad redesign to make the drivers sit further away. Recent MK2 headphones have apparently undergone a driver change that causes the headphones to sound more forward and are dubbed the MK2.9, which is the latest version and has a serial number beginning with SZ3. A few people say it sounds better to them.


----------



## talan7

PointyFox said:


> The MK1 had a design issue that would cause stress on the cables and cause them to break with repeated flexing. Stax removed some material in the MK2 so the cables wouldn't be stressed, but this created a lack of seal and therefore bass. The Spritzer BluTack mod seals the area with a flexible material to restore the bass and seems to increase it further over the MK1. The MK2 also had a slight pad redesign to make the drivers sit further away. Recent MK2 headphones have apparently undergone a driver change that causes the headphones to sound more forward and are dubbed the MK2.9, which is the latest version and has a serial number beginning with SZ3. A few people say it sounds better to them.


Does the MK2 sound better than the MK1? Sounds like MK1 has more bass.


----------



## PointyFox

talan7 said:


> Does the MK2 sound better than the MK1? Sounds like MK1 has more bass.


I think it's subjective. I've read the modded MK2 has more bass than the MK1.


----------



## gurbina93

@RKarim

I have exactly the same issue but with a SRM-252S and L300. I am starting to wonder if it's the headphone... but since it's my first electrostatic I have no idea if I am pushing it to the limit.

Whenever I play any bass heavy or busy track and go past 2' on the volume pot, which I need to do due to the EQ I start hearing terrible distortion, clipping, crackling the same as you. Source is all FLAC 16-24 bit, I just EQ'ed a bit the bass +1 to +4 in the lower and mid bass region.

At first I thought the amp didn't have enough power to drive them to these lenghts.



Pahani said:


> Can't compare those specific energisers, but my impressions with my L700 Mk 1 with the ones i have......
> 
> 252S is sure an okay starting point for what it was at the time I bought it.
> SRM-1/MK-2 definitely steps up the detail vs 252S, though my particular unit sounds a touch bass-light and may need to be recapped due to age.
> ...


@Pahani I saw you had or still have these amps, could you perhaps help us both if you run into the same issue with your L700?

I am questioning myself whether I should upgrade just the amp, the headphones or both... I just want to enjoy my music my L300/SRM-252S sounds wonderful on most of my music, but whenever a busy/bass-heavy track plays I just wanna rip-off my ears, I can't stand it.


----------



## PointyFox

My L700MK2 with KGSSHV doesn't distort even at relatively painful levels of bass. Have you tried reducing the volume to your DAC or the volume to the energizer and turning the energizer up? Might be clipping an input.


----------



## OneOddPhoton

gurbina93 said:


> @RKarim
> 
> I have exactly the same issue but with a SRM-252S and L300. I am starting to wonder if it's the headphone... but since it's my first electrostatic I have no idea if I am pushing it to the limit.
> 
> ...


Are you EQing via Software? If so did you reduce the final Gain? It should be down about -5db to accommodate the +4 Bass boost, else you will get digital clipping (distortion).


----------



## gurbina93

@PointyFox thanks for the info, good to know these headphones can handle it.



OneOddPhoton said:


> Are you EQing via Software? If so did you reduce the final Gain? It should be down about -5db to accommodate the +4 Bass boost, else you will get digital clipping (distortion).



Yep, I set it to auto gain and it usually the final gain ends up in -6dB to -9dB, so that's why I need to turn up the volume quite a bit on the SRM-252S. I will try your suggestion.
I am using a Topping D50s to feed the SRM-252S, source comes from JRiver on Windows 10 or an Android device with USB Audio Player Pro.


----------



## Tugbars (Oct 24, 2020)

PointyFox said:


> I think it's subjective. I've read the modded MK2 has more bass than the MK1.



MkI is even more laid back, 2-4khz recession of Mk 2.9 is about 3.5db less than MkI. MkII has right amount of energy in that region to my ears. MkI's metal springs are larger(so your ears get closer to the driver), 1-1.5khz shout of MkI less than MkII's. Oratory1990 measured MkI//and port modded MkII. Check for more details.

SR007mkI





SR007 mkII with port mod,



Credits goes to @o7brother. He gave his 007s and 009S to be measured by Oratory1990.

The difference between MkI and MkII bass comes from MkI's port being closed. You can do the same with MkII using a blu-tac adhesive and that is called port-mod.(google SR007 port mod) This mod makes bass tighter and mid-bass sounds more controlled. It's an absurdly easy mod to do. Port mod gives tighter bass, without it you get more bass but it's bloated and lacks texture. After port mod, I think it's necessary to give +4db low shelf bass boost under 34hz if you are into such stuff.

Probably they changed diaphragm material with MK2.5/2.9, this is my speculation of course, because later models have better treble performance especially if you are using a good dac. Both models are extremely hard to drive and because there's too much energy in treble/air region, you really need a good dac with good precision and sibilance control.SR007 may seem cheaper than other high-end headphones, however when they are not driven properly, they sound worse than 500$ cans.


----------



## talan7

Tugbars said:


> MkI is even more laid back, 2-4khz recession of Mk 2.9 is about 3.5db less than MkI. MkII has right amount of energy in that region to my ears. MkI's metal springs are larger(so your ears get closer to the driver), 1-1.5khz shout of MkI less than MkII's. Oratory1990 measured MkI//and port modded MkII. Check for more details.
> 
> SR007mkI
> 
> ...


I have STAX 353x and RME ADI2. Would this be a good match?


----------



## Tugbars (Oct 24, 2020)

I don't know about RME-ADI2, however I used to use a dac something similar to that: Sabaj D5. It is one of the best measuring dacs right now.

Subjectively speaking: I always thought that Sabaj wasn't actually competent enough in accurately putting out the audio image however to compensate that, it was overprocessing & overpolishing the sound and giving me something shiny yet something which is far from the real image. This can be due to bad reconstruction filters they are using or bad oversampling. I don't really know, It is okay for a 500$ dac I guess. As a result, trebles get really too bright. On top of that, I was able to hear all the detail but the raw resolution was missing because the stereo image being too overprocessed. These are completely my personal impressions, I just wanted to share them just because with oversampling dacs which are kinda affordable and measure extremely good, this seems to be the case, at least for me.

Now I use Denafrips Pontus, the biggest difference is how correct imaging is with Pontus and there's more depth in soundstage than before. Layering & Staging has been improved. I used to EQ down 8-12khz region before, now I don't have to do that anymore.

All I want to say is actually to make sure that you listen to SR007 with your dac first, it's because when powered properly SR007 has a lot of energy in 8khz+. You wouldn't really want your dac to have a bright sounding presentation there.

And as to your amp, unfortunately 353X does not have power(current output) to drive SR007. They can get really loud but they won't sound pleasant. And this won't be because 353X is a bad amp, it's a great amp, it just doesn't have enough power.


----------



## gurbina93 (Oct 26, 2020)

gurbina93 said:


> @PointyFox thanks for the info, good to know these headphones can handle it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I decided to unplug everything and move it to move it to my home office... After that the issues disappeared.
Not sure if it was a bad connection or some of interference as the circuit in my bedroom for some reason has an AC unit and a heater drawing power from the same circuit as the power outlets, the AC runs 24/7 and I'm not sure whether that could have caused it. Also I was using the USB port of a Belkin power outlet to feed the Topping D50, didn't bother checking on the output amperage of the port.

I was wondering why I started noticing this issue if the first weeks in which I had my setup I didn't have any of these, then I moved it into my bedroom but didn't use it for a while or only at low volume at night.

Then lately with all the pandemic numbers going up I started working from home and using it more, to battle all the outside noises you can hear during daylight I had to start cranking up the volume and that's when I noticed something was wrong.


----------



## Moak

Michgelsen said:


> Come on folks, please be a little more precise when naming and identifying Stax amps (and gear). If you're not sure, then say nothing. Else it gets really confusing for everyone, and especially for any n00bs who are trying to learn about Stax.
> 
> These exist:
> 
> ...


Which one is the better? The SRM-006tS or the SRM-600 Limited on a L700 ?
...or is there no difference?


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 28, 2020)

padam said:


> There are lot of options to consider, even with an amp like this, the SR-007 Mk2 will have more bass slam the the detail and imaging are on a whole new level, Lambdas just can't reach to those heights. It is a very different sound overall, but a decent match with the modified 727, which I think is a bit brighter and flatter than the hybrid Stax amps with tubes which do a good job at "rounding off" Lambdas, but not as dynamic.
> They seem to be going for fairly decent prices used, an SR-L700 Mk2 costing more just shows how much Lambdas have gone up in price.
> 
> Also, if you change to a balanced source you become less dependant on cables (better noise rejection), the Stax amps (including the aftermarket amps) are inherently balanced by design, so you are eliminating an unecessary unbalanced->balanced conversion with that (you also get +6db gain which is set lower on the 727 compared to other amps) for me it becomes a bit warmer and more dynamic, a positive change.
> ...


This newer Head-Fi still isn't giving notifications even when I'm subscribed, just noticed your message. That's interesting maybe the modded SRM-727 really does put out good bass slam and the SR-007's could realize that. I do say what I'm hearing with my (blu-tac modded) L300 LE's is not too far off the 'house sound' of Lambda's I've heard before - great resolution and wide FR response but with a nod to a mid-focused and somewhat hollow sound.

Thanks for the other energiser recommendations. But I'm not familiar with any of those you recommended. SRX+, Carbon and BH. What is the full name including manufacturer name so I can look those up? Not long ago Carbon referred to Liquid Carbon SS amp by Cavalli.


----------



## PointyFox

The SR-007MK2 / A really needs the BluTack mod.


----------



## DougD

DecentLevi said:


> Thanks for the other energiser recommendations. But I'm not familiar with any of those you recommended. SRX+, Carbon and BH. What is the full name including manufacturer name so I can look those up? Not long ago Carbon referred to Liquid Carbon SS amp by Cavalli.


In the Stax context, 
* SRX+ will be the SRX Plus, a DIY design by JimL11, who posts on HeadFi and I think elsewhere
* Carbon will be a Kevin Gilmore designed KGSS Carbon, of which there have been several iterations ... Mjolnir Audio is a good place to see some ... the schematics etc are avail for DIY builders
* BH will be a Blue Hawaii ... see HeadAmp.com


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## JLoud

I have my eye on a Blue Hawaii by HeadAmp. Reviews are very positive, and I love the colors. Visually stunning. IMO


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## joseph69

JLoud said:


> I have my eye on a Blue Hawaii by HeadAmp. Reviews are very positive, and I love the colors. Visually stunning. IMO


I owned the Blue Hawaii Special Edition in silver for almost 3yrs and used it with both, the 007Mk2 w/port mod & 009...spectacular!


----------



## JLoud

Just pulled the trigger tonight. Order a polished blue Blue Hawaii SE from HeadAmp.


----------



## paradoxper

joseph69 said:


> I owned the Blue Hawaii Special Edition in silver for almost 3yrs and used it with both, the 007Mk2 w/port mod & 009...spectacular!


It's amazing to see where we've all moved on to.


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> It's amazing to see where we've all moved on to.


It is.


----------



## joseph69

JLoud said:


> Just pulled the trigger tonight. Order a polished blue Blue Hawaii SE from HeadAmp.


What headphones are you going to be using?


----------



## JLoud

joseph69 said:


> What headphones are you going to be using?


Dan Clark Audio Voce.


----------



## Kartewii (Oct 29, 2020)

I had the chance to buy some minty SR-307 / SRM323A for a reasonable price, pulled the trigger and got them on the way.

Do you think Audio-GD R2R11 would work fine as a DAC or should I contemplate another options?
Also, do I need a step-down transformer (Europe)? About connectors, any RCA cables would do the job?

I always research info before buying, but it was one of those situations where either you take it or leave it, so I had no time for it.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Eich1eeF

Kartewii said:


> I had the chance to buy some minty SR-307 / SRM323A for a reasonable price, pulled the trigger and got them on the way.
> 
> Do you think Audio-GD R2R11 would work fine as a DAC or should I contemplate another options?


Look for something else. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-measurements-of-audio-gd-r2r11-dac-amp.5779/


> Also, do I need a step-down transformer (Europe)? About connectors, any RCA cables would do the job?


Assuming that SRM323A is a 100V or 110V device and you're in a 230V country, you'll either need a step down transformer or you may get away with re-soldering a few wires inside, similar to what is described here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rewiring-the-srm-323s-from-100v-to-120v.806800/. You'll need some luck that the additional wires are still present, Stax cuts those in newer amps.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 29, 2020)

Kartewii said:


> I had the chance to buy some minty SR-307 / SRM323A for a reasonable price, pulled the trigger and got them on the way.
> 
> Do you think Audio-GD R2R11 would work fine as a DAC or should I contemplate another options?
> Also, do I need a step-down transformer (Europe)? About connectors, any RCA cables would do the job?
> ...


I also had a negative experience with an Audio-GD DAC, their R2R R1. After getting the Chord Electronics Qutest instead for a bit more, the improvements were absolutely unparalleled in every aspect.

However Audio-GD does make some outstanding DDCs (audio interface). My DI-20 from them sounds even better than a direct stream from a dedicated CD transport via optical. Seems to defy logic but you'd have to hear it to believe it.


joseph69 said:


> I owned the Blue Hawaii Special Edition in silver for almost 3yrs and used it with both, the 007Mk2 w/port mod & 009...spectacular!


Mind to say why you parted with it - found something even better to drive e-stats?


----------



## joseph69

DecentLevi said:


> Mind to say why you parted with it - found something even better to drive e-stats?


Just parted with it because I had my experience & enjoyment with the BHSE & Stax and just felt it was time to move on.
I pretty much always do this with my headphones & gear. A good analogy; it's like driving the same car for 3yrs and just wanting something different.


----------



## JLoud

I do the same thing. I’ve even rebought some headphones I sold. Probably going to slow down for a bit. At least until some new flagship comes out and I can’t resist.


----------



## joseph69

JLoud said:


> I do the same thing. I’ve even rebought some headphones I sold. Probably going to slow down for a bit. At least until some new flagship comes out and I can’t resist.


I've bought both, the 007Mk2 & 009 2x and the PS1000 3x (and I'm waiting for my 4th to arrive) and the WA6 2x.


----------



## nastypoker

When you travel for work but can't give up that TOTL sound.


----------



## DecentLevi (Oct 30, 2020)

Wow that may be the smallest desktop hi-fi rig I've ever seen - and it's e-stat nonetheless. I guess you like it transportable.

And with that SRM-D10 with DAP you could even listen in other areas of the house. I take it the small energiser doesn't compete with the big guys, right? But at least battery power should isolate from AC power HF noise.


----------



## JLoud

That’s a travel setup right? So I guess it would be the biggest portable setup ever.


----------



## nastypoker (Oct 31, 2020)

DecentLevi said:


> Wow that may be the smallest desktop hi-fi rig I've ever seen - and it's e-stat nonetheless. I guess you like it transportable.
> 
> And with that SRM-D10 with DAP you could even listen in other areas of the house. I take it the small energiser doesn't compete with the big guys, right? But at least battery power should isolate from AC power HF noise.



I have a 353x and I really struggle to notice a difference. I am looking at some higher end energisers for home but for travelling, this is perfectly good.

I've got KSE1200's as well for shorter trips but they don't come near the the L700II's.



> That’s a travel setup right? So I guess it would be the biggest portable setup ever.



Yep. A few months away from home so it's nice to have it with me.


----------



## armani006

Amir made new measurements for us ))
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-headphone-amplifier-review-comparison.17161/

to be honest I didn't expect to see such a low resolution in -dB


----------



## Tugbars (Oct 31, 2020)

Amir makes me facepalm so hard that  both my hand and head hurts. He does know nothing about how the signal is processed in an electrostatic amplifier. He doesn't know the difficulties of delivering signal with good integrity while the voltages are so high. He doesn't have basic knowledge about how capacitive loads are driven too probably. He likes to have opinions without knowledge just because he happens to have a measurement rig.

Almost off-topic: There's a distortion hearing test on internet. I haven't seen someone score better than -60db yet. Even hearing distortion below -45db is a true talent.

http://www.klippel.de/listeningtest/ for those who want to try.


----------



## JLoud

I don’t listen to measurements. I listen to music. Many times the ”best” measuring is not the best sounding. For me at least.


----------



## Eich1eeF

> Amir makes me facepalm so hard that both my hand and head hurts.


So then please enlighten us, how does one accurately measure the signal quality of an electrostatic headphone amplifier? What exactly did Amir do wrong, and what does he have to do to improve the measurements?



> He does know nothing about how the signal is processed in an electrostatic amplifier. He doesn't know the difficulties of delivering signal with good integrity while the voltages are so high.


First of all, that't conjecture at best, and just plain an ad hominem at worst. I also don't understand how that relates to the measurements made. It doesn't matter how difficult it might be to build one, of even knowing how difficult it is, measuring and interpreting and comparing the measurements to other products is something entirely diffenrent. 



> He doesn't have basic knowledge about how capacitive loads are driven too probably. He likes to have opinions without knowledge just because he happens to have a measurement rig.


And it appears that you like to have opinions about people with measurement rigs just based on the fact that you have feelings for your Stax devices. In my opinion, your feelings are a lot less useful to actually improve the state of the art of stax amps than any measurements, flawed as they might be. But since you know better, let me repeat my request that you explain exactly how electrostatic headphone amplifiers are to measured correctly.


----------



## Tugbars (Oct 31, 2020)

Sorry but I won't spend my time explaining these stuff. If you think 120 SINAD point 500$ dac sounds better than Holo May, go for it. If you think Koss amp sounds better than 353X, be my guest. Buy the Koss amp. Plug SR007 to Koss amp, all you hear will be noise. Because estats headphones are capacitive loads, when there isn't enough current, all hell break loose. With 353X however, you can drive them to an extent which can be considered as "acceptable"

Sound reproduction has much more things involved in it than low noise floors or SINAD points. So is the amplification.


----------



## PointyFox

If you read Amir's post he says the Koss amp can only provide like 10% the power of the Stax amps without major distortion.


----------



## kevin gilmore

just because you can put a 427 into a yugo does not mean that you should.
although i remember someone doing the same thing with a xj6. was lots of fun till the frame broke apart.

just because you own a grossly overpriced soundcard does not mean you know how to use it.

The input voltage ratings and impedance of the audio-precision make it impossible to measure electrostatic amplifiers without
some kind of extra help. And a lot of care. And then still the possibility of BOOM goes the input circuit.

i posted this in amir's thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
you want to measure safely, then one of these
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Keithley-2...874448?hash=item3b258a0bd0:g:MQ8AAOSwXc9cGvoJ
and one of these
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Keysight-A...277024?hash=item2cbf0415e0:g:xAQAAOSwRAVfMPdS
and the james m king software and a reasonably recent pc with windows 10 and the java development kit and the gpib libraries etc.

a little less safely a pair of these and audio-precision or dscope etc.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-...253759&hash=item4465a38d6f:g:HmAAAOSwjGxfmr0j
and associated power supplies. 
--------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## kevin gilmore

PointyFox said:


> If you read Amir's post he says the Koss amp can only provide like 10% the power of the Stax amps without major distortion.



Again, this is also totally incorrect. The koss amp CANNOT drive a 100kohm load. None of the stax amps can drive a 100kohm load either.
Electrostatic headphones are in no way similar to a 100kohm load. Not even a little bit.


----------



## PointyFox




----------



## Eich1eeF

Tugbars said:


> Sorry but I won't spend my time explaining these stuff. If you think 120 SINAD point 500$ dac sounds better than Holo May, go for it. If you think Koss amp sounds better than 353X, be my guest.


Well, thanks for rambling about your DAC instead.


----------



## 118900

On a slightly different note to the high level discussions above can anyone confirm whether the latest batch of sr-007 mk2’s still require the Spritzer port mod?

thanks in advance for any feedback.


----------



## Tugbars

juansan said:


> On a slightly different note to the high level discussions above can anyone confirm whether the latest batch of sr-007 mk2’s still require the Spritzer port mod?
> 
> thanks in advance for any feedback.



They do


----------



## 118900

Tugbars said:


> They do


Thanks


----------



## arnaud

Tugbars said:


> Almost off-topic: There's a distortion hearing test on internet. I haven't seen someone score better than -60db yet. Even hearing distortion below -45db is a true talent.
> http://www.klippel.de/listeningtest/ for those who want to try.


This is gold! It even gives you statistics at the end about which percentile you fit in. I just gave a first try (with my headphone rig) and, while I did not do too bad, I could certainly verify I am no golden ear lol


----------



## armani006

I've got -24dB ))


----------



## Currawong (Nov 1, 2020)

Tugbars said:


> Almost off-topic: There's a distortion hearing test on internet. I haven't seen someone score better than -60db yet. Even hearing distortion below -45db is a true talent.
> 
> http://www.klippel.de/listeningtest/ for those who want to try.



The music part of this test is junk. The original music itself, both tracks that I listened to, is full of distortion to begin with.


----------



## Tugbars (Nov 1, 2020)

That's probably Intermodular distortion and is different.(you know this already) That's one of the reasons why electrostatics are better at separation. Also we tend to hear distortion in lower frequencies more  than higher frequencies.

from audiocheck.com:


----------



## playmusic

Tugbars said:


> http://www.klippel.de/listeningtest/ for those who want to try.


Thank you for posting the link and the quote from audiocheck.

The stimulus sound "two-tone 70 Hz 800 Hz" was quite easy to assess (with setting "full range speaker" rather than "6 inch driver" - whatever that means when hardware is set to "headphones").
The test software only goes down to -69 dB and then stays at that level even if answered correctly.
The -69 dB level actually became difficult for me. So I guess this is where my threshold would remain even if the test software went below -69 dB.


----------



## arnaud

playmusic said:


> The -69 dB level actually became difficult for me. So I guess this is where my threshold would remain even if the test software went below -69 dB.


Wow, I recall I miserably failed somewhere around -30dB, you should go work as etalon for Audio-Precision


----------



## 118900

Tugbars said:


> They do


Thanks again. Did it, hope I haven’t broken anything.


----------



## Tugbars (Nov 2, 2020)

Apply pressure to the area where the port is(with just 1-2 fingers) from each side, if you hear a farting sound that means port is blocked properly. Do not apply the pressure suddenly though. Do it gently and slowly.  I prefer pushing sub bass(low shelf, 35hz) with Equalizer APO +3db after port modding 007's. Enjoy... no more midbass hump that clouds the stage, no more bloated sub bass.


----------



## Bonddam (Nov 3, 2020)

I’m loving the bass on sr007mk2. There’s actually more bass on these then my planars very close to 1266 tc. Turning the ear pad to the rear makes fuller sounding bass. I guess as I listen to EDM I don't have to plug the port.


----------



## JLoud

How do you rate the Voce, 007 mk2, and 009s? Comparisons? I listen to a lot of EDM as well.


----------



## Bonddam

007 mk 2 is close to 1266 in bass but might be a little thin, I'm still playing with the 007 ear pads as they rotate kinda like the 1266. Off the bat the 009s sounds best but doesn't have the low end of the 007. If you listen to EDM then stick with the 007 as it has lots of detail and bass. 007 isn't as nice looking as the 009 but its light and comfy.


----------



## Mach3 (Nov 3, 2020)

If you thought the 007 bass is crazy, you should listen to the original Omega.
Which is odd, as most owner say they are bass shy.
My 00535 quite the opposite.
Too bad they are so rare and hard to find and if you're lucky enough to find one
Good luck trying to get it off the current owners for less than extortionary prices.


----------



## Bonddam

Mach3 said:


> If you thought the 007 bass is crazy, you should listen to the original Omega.
> Too bad they are so rare and hard to find and if you're lucky enough to find one
> Good luck trying to get it off the current owners for less than extortionary prices.


Don’t even tell me there was more. Lol I was originally under the impression that electro statics couldn’t produce much. I’m at least very happy with 007. Very clear sounding. Need to get some time on it before coming too my conclusion with it, but so far loving it.


----------



## Mach3

If, somehow you come across someone who has one. Do anything to listen to them properly, you won't regret it.
For an indication of pricing in 2009 @ $6500 for a good condition one. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-stax-sr-Ω-sr-omega.404877/

doyouknowSBmean had 2 unicorn and sold one.
not too long ago on headfi for $9500-$10000 around that price, I don't know the condition. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-Ω-sr-omega-the-legendary-omega.847079/page-2


----------



## Bonddam

Mach3 said:


> If, somehow you come across someone who has one. Do anything to listen to them properly, you won't regret it.
> For an indication of pricing in 2009 @ $6500 for a good condition one. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-stax-sr-Ω-sr-omega.404877/
> 
> doyouknowSBmean had 2 unicorn and sold one.
> ...


That’s crazy. Wonder why they had to change them.


----------



## padam (Nov 4, 2020)

Mach3 said:


> If you thought the 007 bass is crazy, you should listen to the original Omega.
> Which is odd, as most owner say they are bass shy.
> My 00535 quite the opposite.
> Too bad they are so rare and hard to find and if you're lucky enough to find one
> Good luck trying to get it off the current owners for less than extortionary prices.


So you got them, congrats, did that cable connector succesfully get repaired?


----------



## 118900

Sitting here taking my sr-007 mk2s in and out of their case waiting for the amp to arrive.... it feels like it’s going to take forever.


----------



## talan7

juansan said:


> Sitting here taking my sr-007 mk2s in and out of their case waiting for the amp to arrive.... it feels like it’s going to take forever.


I know the feeling. I recently bought the Kaldas RR1 and stax 353x. I made sure I ordered the amp before I ordered the headphone, just so that I wasn’t waiting for an amp with headphones in hand. That would’ve driven me crazy. Since then, I’ve ordered and received Stax 003 mk2 earphones, and Drop Koss esp with Stax 5 pin adapter, (which I am still waiting on). Only reason I’m not going crazy for the koss is because I’m still getting used to the Stax 003. I’m shocked how good it sounds. I’m using RME ADI2 with a shelf bass boost. I can’t wait to hear the Koss


----------



## talan7

I’m new to stats but I am totally sold on the sound. My next step will be the IFi iESL. I am currently looking for the right class A (or hybrid) tube amp to use with it. Last will be Stax 007Mk2.


----------



## 118900

talan7 said:


> I know the feeling. I recently bought the Kaldas RR1 and stax 353x. I made sure I ordered the amp before I ordered the headphone, just so that I wasn’t waiting for an amp with headphones in hand. That would’ve driven me crazy. Since then, I’ve ordered and received Stax 003 mk2 earphones, and Drop Koss esp with Stax 5 pin adapter, (which I am still waiting on). Only reason I’m not going crazy for the koss is because I’m still getting used to the Stax 003. I’m shocked how good it sounds. I’m using RME ADI2 with a shelf bass boost. I can’t wait to hear the Koss


The truth is that I bought the headphones from the dealer and he had them in-house the next day. The amplifier is arriving from Iceland and takes a while longer.

I hate waiting 🤣


----------



## Mach3

padam said:


> So you got them, congats, did that cable connector succesfully get repaired?



I'll post photo later, but they look alright to me.
I need to find earpads for them, foam in the current one have shrunk.
I've added wood to lift them up on the interim, until I sort out a more permanent solution.


----------



## Bonddam

Yeah come to the conclusion after a/b-ing my planars and dynamics to the 009 and 007 the latter two take the cake in clarity. If I wasn't into collecting headphones and amps I'd be okay with getting rid of the none estats. 009 and 007 have correct tonality and rest sound funny incomparson like veiled.


----------



## Mach3

Here the photo left and right, I gave it a good clean. 
Can't remember which side the sticky tape was on I think it was right side.


----------



## padam

It was actually the left side.
The rubber gromit in the middle looks to be slightly different on these very last units. Yet another small revision during production.


----------



## PointyFox (Nov 4, 2020)

You beat me


----------



## armani006

PointyFox said:


> You beat me


You made many attempts to get this result ))


----------



## playmusic

It is plausible that @PointyFox achieved this on his first attempt.

Here is what it looked for me:




To me, the appeal of such tests is that they give some indication whether the hearing is good enough to justify above average spending on audio equipment.

If you liked this test, you might want to have a look at http://harmanhowtolisten.blogspot.com/
You can become a "trained listener" if you reach a certain level.
The software was written in 2011 for Windows XP but still runs on Windows 10.

I guess that I approach the off-topic edge in this Stax thread, so I leave it at that.


----------



## PointyFox

playmusic said:


> It is plausible that @PointyFox achieved this on his first attempt.
> 
> Here is what it looked for me:
> 
> ...



I got it on my first try.


----------



## talan7

I recently purchased a Stax SR003 earphone and need a good, small storage case for it. Does anyone know of one?


----------



## Mach3

I've been using these for a wide range of headphones I have.
https://www.amazon.com.au/LTGEM-Hea...ocphy=9071474&hvtargid=pla-381059350788&psc=1

Hope it helps


----------



## elton7033

I just founf


Mach3 said:


> If, somehow you come across someone who has one. Do anything to listen to them properly, you won't regret it.
> For an indication of pricing in 2009 @ $6500 for a good condition one. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-stax-sr-Ω-sr-omega.404877/
> 
> doyouknowSBmean had 2 unicorn and sold one.
> ...



I just found out a Hong Kong Company currently producing SR-Omega clone, which makes me really wonder how it compare to the real Omega.
https://www.eslabhk.com/product-page/es-1-alpha-electrostatic-headphone
still very expensive for a clone.


----------



## Tugbars (Nov 10, 2020)

They sound really good though. They are cheap for how they sound. They have "ethereal" sound signature like 009's but with better bass and better tonality.(less sharper treble, better mid tone) Imaging is slightly better on 009 and also the detail. Detail may be more accessible with 009 just because 009 is a bit shoutier. But these are differences are almost ignorable. I just wish he'd used better looking protective metal grills at back side of the drivers. They look a bit too DIY because of cheap looking metal grills. That'd be my only complaint.


----------



## elton7033

Tugbars said:


> They sound really good though. It's cheap for how they sound. They have "ethereal" sound signature like 009's but with better bass and better tonality.(less sharp treble, better mid tone) Imaging is slightly better on 009 and also the detail. Detail may be more accessible with 009 because 009 is a bit shoutier. But these are differences are almost ignorable. I just wish he'd use better looking protective metal grills at back side of the drivers. They look a bit too DIY because of cheap looking metal grills. That'd be my only complaint.


your review looks very promising and tempting epically when I'm sort of looking for something that I don't have at the moment, yeah the build quality looks even worst compare to hifiman


----------



## Mach3

I don't like how they don't have the removable cable like the Stax SR Ω. I wonder if the leather pads will fit the Stax SR Ω.
Don't like the fake leather pads on the Stax SR Ω


----------



## PointyFox (Nov 10, 2020)

From what I've read they're pretty heavy (600g es1a vs 454g SR-009, both without cable).

Big review here.

TLDR: It sounds like a SR-009S but has about the same overall sound quality as the SR-007.


----------



## elton7033

PointyFox said:


> From what I've read they're pretty heavy (600g es1a vs 454g SR-009, both without cable).
> 
> Big review here.
> 
> TLDR: It sounds like a SR-009S but has about the same overall sound quality as the SR-007.


if it sounds like a 009s I rather save up longer to get a 009s...the only reason i will consider that thing is if it sounds like the original omega lol


----------



## padam

elton7033 said:


> if it sounds like a 009s I rather save up longer to get a 009s...the only reason i will consider that thing is if it sounds like the original omega lol


No, from the impressions [ latest one here ] it sounds somewhat different from all the Stax headphones, it can be related to one or another but overall it has its own "house" sound (you can also find Spritzer's impression elsewhere, he has both and thinks it is an 'unfair' comparison)
The SR-009 and SR-009S are tuned more towards clarity and dynamics over a warmer, more mellow style of play.
The closest sound to the original Omega is the (early) SR-007 Mk1. But of course with significant differences, like:
-more bass, slightly less treble (sweet treble on both)
-smaller, more focused and layered soundstage (the Omega has a very big stage with slightly imprecise separation)
-the Omega is much less sensitive to fit and more comfortable (not heavy like the SR-009)

Maybe the Lambda Nova Signature has a 'whiff' of Omega about it (same era with 1.5µ thick diapgrahm) but still vastly different, the bass on the Lambda series is gerenally quite far off the Omegas and the upper mid presentation is different.

And of course, in these modern times we have DACs and amps that can bring out these differences a lot more.

So nothing really sounds the Omega, some say the HE90 does have somewhat similar presentation, I didn't hear them at the same time, but I think apart from the diffused staging, they are significantly different.


----------



## PointyFox

That's one heck of a review. They describe the es1a as sounding "interesting, fun, confusing, weird, odd, problematic, airy, fatiguing, unique, harsh, and not right".


----------



## Tugbars (Nov 10, 2020)

I keep hearing about this (talking about electrostatic headphones, quoting from the review) "they mostly shared a similar “soft, ethereal” bass presentation where the note is heard and decays too quickly with little sense of impact." That may be true for some models.
However the bass presentation from my Neumann subwoofers(whole system is flat from 18hz to 20khz)  is extremely similar with my SR007's... same texture, almost same attack and same decay. For years I heard how ethereal bass presentation electrostatics have, I believed in that too. Questioned what I'm hearing.  Maybe Staxes are just too neutral and most other headphones are not.(talking only about bass). I'd like to know if I'm alone in this.  My investigation will continue. I am not sure of anything yet.

about my ES-1A impressions, I am probably the last guy to ask about tonality. I mostly listen to ambient music, chamber music or very impactful hardcore techno stuff. (music with no vocals in general) Those genres almost do not require proper tonality to please the listener. I check imaging, detail, layering, bass/mid/treble texture more than anything else. ES-1A is doing well relatively to high electrostatic headphones in these aspects.


----------



## elton7033 (Nov 11, 2020)

Just bought the Mjolnir-Audio KGSShv Carbon from a friend who just bought it from Birgir about 3months ago...I used to own the normal KGSShv for many years until it blew up. The Carbon is so different in all aspects compare to the normal KGSShv, where the carbon seems to have so much extra power, better bass extension and a warmer presentation which makes me question if the carbon is a hybird amp or what...the old KGSShv tend to be much rough in presentation and hot on treble with the 009. My Initial impression with the carbon reminds me very much of the Headamp BHSE , just not as sweet and tube sounding.

They are definitely at the same level, where I prefer solid state amp since I don’t have to wait for that long until the tubes warm up.

Comparing the BHSE, the carbon seems to have a wider soundstage and more precise in terms of positioning. However when i open the case I was shock by the size of the circuit, the carbon its much smaller than my old KGSShv which makes me wonder how this magic happen.

OLD KGSShv photo already R.I.P




NEW KGSShv Carbon


----------



## PointyFox

elton7033 said:


> I personally own the normal KGSShv for many years until it blew up a while ago.


Who made it and how did it blow up? I want to try to prevent mine from doing that.


----------



## elton7033 (Nov 11, 2020)

PointyFox said:


> Who made it and how did it blow up? I want to try to prevent mine from doing that.



i have no idea who build it i bought it in headfi back in 2014, the amp is 117V but I plug it directly into japan grid which is 100V and the fuze broke twice i then replace it with a furutech one but after a few month it smoke and RIP


----------



## nastypoker

Is there a list somewhere of all commercially available electrostatic amps and their specifications? I am looking for TOTL and I do my research and then someone mentions some obscure manufacturer that makes 3 a year in a shed at the bottom of a volcano that is supposed to be the best and then I realise I don't know exactly what is available.


----------



## vitop

nastypoker said:


> Is there a list somewhere of all commercially available electrostatic amps and their specifications? I am looking for TOTL and I do my research and then someone mentions some obscure manufacturer that makes 3 a year in a shed at the bottom of a volcano that is supposed to be the best and then I realise I don't know exactly what is available.


It is the seasoning by the volcanic ash that makes those special


----------



## PointyFox

KG is actually a legendary Dwarven blacksmith.


----------



## paradoxper

PointyFox said:


> KG is actually a legendary Dwarven blacksmith.


Who's bettar. the blacksmith or the breadsmith.


----------



## Mach3

elton7033 said:


> i have no idea who build it i bought it in headfi back in 2014, the amp is 117V but I plug it directly into japan grid which is 100V and the fuze broke twice i then replace it with a furutech one but after a few month it smoke and RIP



Well that explains a lot. You're running it at the wrong voltages, you should have gotten someone with skill to change it to the correct voltages.
Where the old amp? I bet you might just need a new transformer or a few bits of piece here and there to get it back to working order.


----------



## elton7033 (Nov 11, 2020)

Mach3 said:


> Well that explains a lot. You're running it at the wrong voltages, you should have gotten someone with skill to change it to the correct voltages.
> Where the old amp? I bet you might just need a new transformer or a few bits of piece here and there to get it back to working order.


The amp is lying in my friend house as I do not know anyone can fix it
If anyone who know someone who is capable to fix it please kindly introduce me. 

the guy who sold me the amp back in 2014 told me that the different between 100V and 117V is tiny and the amp should run alright in japan without a step up transformer.


----------



## Mach3

elton7033 said:


> The amp is lying in my friend house as I do not know anyone can fix it
> If anyone who know someone who is capable to fix it please kindly introduce me.
> 
> the guy who sold me the amp back in 2014 told me that the different between 100V and 117V is tiny and the amp should run alright in japan without a step up transformer.



If it is 117V running at 60hz and you plug it into 100V 50hz, it enough to blow something up.


----------



## PointyFox

Mach3 said:


> If it is 117V running at 60hz and you plug it into 100V 50hz, it enough to blow something up.



Yeah, it's not good.


----------



## Rajsher

Hi,

I just bought 353x energizer and I am wondering if some of the experienced mates here can help me with the suggestion on xlr connection which the energizer can take.
I have these pics taken from one of the cables I was looking at and also the pic of the back of 353x. Please help in explaining if this cable with be ok OR the energizer takes any standard xlr cable?


----------



## elton7033 (Nov 12, 2020)

Rajsher said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just bought 353x energizer and I am wondering if some of the experienced mates here can help me with the suggestion on xlr connection which the energizer can take.
> I have these pics taken from one of the cables I was looking at and also the pic of the back of 353x. Please help in explaining if this cable with be ok OR the energizer takes any standard xlr cable?


it takes normal RCA and XLR cable so it should work.


----------



## tumpux

It should work. 



Rajsher said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just bought 353x energizer and I am wondering if some of the experienced mates here can help me with the suggestion on xlr connection which the energizer can take.
> I have these pics taken from one of the cables I was looking at and also the pic of the back of 353x. Please help in explaining if this cable with be ok OR the energizer takes any standard xlr cable?


----------



## PointyFox

Rajsher said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just bought 353x energizer and I am wondering if some of the experienced mates here can help me with the suggestion on xlr connection which the energizer can take.
> I have these pics taken from one of the cables I was looking at and also the pic of the back of 353x. Please help in explaining if this cable with be ok OR the energizer takes any standard xlr cable?



That's the input. You usually connect a DAC there. What are you planning on connecting to it?


----------



## Rajsher (Nov 13, 2020)

PointyFox said:


> That's the input. You usually connect a DAC there. What are you planning on connecting to it?


Hi currently I have the Zen Dac, so planning connect balanced out to Xlr of 353x. I believe balanced out from Zen Dac would be better than RCA which I am currently using. if someone has experience here, welcome to comment.

I would like to upgrade my DAC in future, any suggestions (I am driving L700s)??

thanks Tumpux and Elton for your replies!


----------



## bigjako

Rajsher said:


> Hi currently I have the Zen Dac, so planning connect balanced out to Xlr of 353x. I believe balanced out from Zen Dac would be better than RCA which I am currently using. if someone has experience here, welcome to comment.
> 
> I would like to upgrade my DAC in future, any suggestions (I am driving L700s)??
> 
> thanks Tumpux and Elton for your replies!



I have L300s (and NB Lambdas, RR1s and Hives) connected to an unmodded SRM-T1S and recently made the decision on a new DAC.  I had used it with a Modi MB and a Khadas Toneboard and they were nice, but I wanted something more.  I am less concerned about measurements, but if you are just get a Topping and be happy, imo.  I wanted an R2R DAC, and looked at RME ADI-2, Soekris 1541, and Denafripe ARES II.  I would have been happy with any of those, and I looked into the EC Designs Mosaic UV too - but ultimately I found a good deal on a used Schiit Bifrost 2 and have been very happy with it. I worried the R2Rs (and Schiit specifically) could eliminate the crisp high end of electrostatics but I haven't found that to be the case.  I've found the bass to have a lot more heft with it, yes, but the separation and soundstage were improved over the Mimby and the Khadas, without taking away the electrostatic magic that made me sell off most of dynamics and planars in the first place. 

I also wanted to share my little dustcover hack, using an Amazon stadium-friendly clear tote bag that I got, 2 for $11.  It fits perfectly on all my dual-can stands.  I've been very happy with them. I just cut off the handles.


----------



## vitop

I have a 717 and the polarity is reversed on the xlr connectors. I think it is that way on most of the Stax amps.
There is a company on Amazon that makes custom cables using several different types of cable and I had them make me me a nice set to the length I wanted in reverse polarity. Using standard cables does not really make a difference as far as I know but I wanted the signal to run true as it was designed


----------



## elton7033

Rajsher said:


> Hi currently I have the Zen Dac, so planning connect balanced out to Xlr of 353x. I believe balanced out from Zen Dac would be better than RCA which I am currently using. if someone has experience here, welcome to comment.
> 
> I would like to upgrade my DAC in future, any suggestions (I am driving L700s)??
> 
> thanks Tumpux and Elton for your replies!


if your cable is fairly short running RCA and XLR wont make a huge difference from my personal experience, but lets don't get into this rca vs xlr topic since can get very complicated. lol


----------



## Rajsher

elton7033 said:


> if your cable is fairly short running RCA and XLR wont make a huge difference from my personal experience, but lets don't get into this rca vs xlr topic since can get very complicated. lol


Thanks for the reply.
The whole intention on my query was if the internals of IFI Zen Dac provide a better signal from balanced out vs RCA out. I think it is generally agreed that the 353x would not make much of difference with rca vs xlr inputs, so agree w you on this point.

So from the DAC performance perspective for the resolution Stax provides, I think I shall check out Bifrost 2 / Ares II. Any other suggestions are welcome.

regards


----------



## Rajsher

bigjako said:


> I have L300s (and NB Lambdas, RR1s and Hives) connected to an unmodded SRM-T1S and recently made the decision on a new DAC.  I had used it with a Modi MB and a Khadas Toneboard and they were nice, but I wanted something more.  I am less concerned about measurements, but if you are just get a Topping and be happy, imo.  I wanted an R2R DAC, and looked at RME ADI-2, Soekris 1541, and Denafripe ARES II.  I would have been happy with any of those, and I looked into the EC Designs Mosaic UV too - but ultimately I found a good deal on a used Schiit Bifrost 2 and have been very happy with it. I worried the R2Rs (and Schiit specifically) could eliminate the crisp high end of electrostatics but I haven't found that to be the case.  I've found the bass to have a lot more heft with it, yes, but the separation and soundstage were improved over the Mimby and the Khadas, without taking away the electrostatic magic that made me sell off most of dynamics and planars in the first place.
> 
> I also wanted to share my little dustcover hack, using an Amazon stadium-friendly clear tote bag that I got, 2 for $11.  It fits perfectly on all my dual-can stands.  I've been very happy with them. I just cut off the handles.


Some excellent tricks there mate! Currently I am storing in the original pckaging in this hit and humid climate.

And I will try to find a way to audition Bifrost 2. Thanks


----------



## chocolates

hi! i recently purchased an sr-007mk1/srm-007t system for what i think is quite cheap - about 1500 usd all told, including shipping and proxy fees. and yes, i'm fully aware of the risks that come with purchasing secondhand stuff, so here's hoping it's not too broken! (frankly, my expectations are low)

seller noted only one issue, which was that the left cable disconnected the sound if tugged on. this seems to be a relatively common issue, and it seems like people have fixed it, but a lot of threads are old and missing pictures, or just don't really explain how to fix it beyond some solder magic. how difficult would this be to repair? i do have a soldering station and some experience with smd and throughhole soldering, though if it's extremely difficult i don't mind finding someone to do it for me.

i'm also curious about the tubes on the 007t, since it seems it was used quite a bit and seller has had the system for over a decade. it seems like i may need to replace the tubes and rebias them? would it be better to use a different energizer entirely?

thanks in advance! i should be receiving the set within the week, and with any luck it'll at least be listenable. if not, i've got an sr-l300 to tide me over =)


----------



## elton7033

chocolates said:


> hi! i recently purchased an sr-007mk1/srm-007t system for what i think is quite cheap - about 1500 usd all told, including shipping and proxy fees. and yes, i'm fully aware of the risks that come with purchasing secondhand stuff, so here's hoping it's not too broken! (frankly, my expectations are low)
> 
> seller noted only one issue, which was that the left cable disconnected the sound if tugged on. this seems to be a relatively common issue, and it seems like people have fixed it, but a lot of threads are old and missing pictures, or just don't really explain how to fix it beyond some solder magic. how difficult would this be to repair? i do have a soldering station and some experience with smd and throughhole soldering, though if it's extremely difficult i don't mind finding someone to do it for me.
> 
> ...


why don't just send it back to stax to fix?


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

nastypoker said:


> Is there a list somewhere of all commercially available electrostatic amps and their specifications? I am looking for TOTL and I do my research and then someone mentions some obscure manufacturer that makes 3 a year in a shed at the bottom of a volcano that is supposed to be the best and then I realise I don't know exactly what is available.


This might be the best comment that I've read all year.


----------



## Mach3

chocolates said:


> hi! i recently purchased an sr-007mk1/srm-007t system for what i think is quite cheap - about 1500 usd all told, including shipping and proxy fees. and yes, i'm fully aware of the risks that come with purchasing secondhand stuff, so here's hoping it's not too broken! (frankly, my expectations are low)
> 
> seller noted only one issue, which was that the left cable disconnected the sound if tugged on. this seems to be a relatively common issue, and it seems like people have fixed it, but a lot of threads are old and missing pictures, or just don't really explain how to fix it beyond some solder magic. how difficult would this be to repair? i do have a soldering station and some experience with smd and throughhole soldering, though if it's extremely difficult i don't mind finding someone to do it for me.
> 
> ...


That a very good deal. If you have soldering skills the hardest part is to open the headphone cut the cable shorter by 3-4 cm and resolder. That's how I fixed my Mk1 it a common problem because they don't have strain relief/support like the mk2 where the cable enter the headphone. I did the same for both side so it equal length.


----------



## padam

Somebody with a cable issue might find this handy as well

Sockets for repairing a STAX SR-007 cable (ABS 3D printed pair, brown colour) @ebay


----------



## 118900

talan7 said:


> I know the feeling. I recently bought the Kaldas RR1 and stax 353x. I made sure I ordered the amp before I ordered the headphone, just so that I wasn’t waiting for an amp with headphones in hand. That would’ve driven me crazy. Since then, I’ve ordered and received Stax 003 mk2 earphones, and Drop Koss esp with Stax 5 pin adapter, (which I am still waiting on). Only reason I’m not going crazy for the koss is because I’m still getting used to the Stax 003. I’m shocked how good it sounds. I’m using RME ADI2 with a shelf bass boost. I can’t wait to hear the Koss


The amplifier arrived this morning. Have spent an afternoon of bliss.


----------



## 118900

Is there any experience on a new sr-007 mk2 break in period please?


----------



## Mach3

Stax actually burns them in for 100 hour i read somewhere in the past.


----------



## elton7033

Mach3 said:


> Stax actually burns them in for 100 hour i read somewhere in the past.


so brand new stax are already burn in? but i can remember that my 009 seems to sounds better after a few week...not sure why


----------



## yaluen

In a factory tour article from a few years ago it was said all their headphones are energized for a period of 7-10 days as a part of their QA process. I doubt they're actually driven with any audio signals though.

https://www.ikebe-gakki.com/web-ikebe/pr_STAX_intvw/index.html


----------



## 118900 (Nov 17, 2020)

yaluen said:


> In a factory tour article from a few years ago it was said all their headphones are energized for a period of 7-10 days as a part of their QA process. I doubt they're actually driven with any audio signals though.
> 
> https://www.ikebe-gakki.com/web-ikebe/pr_STAX_intvw/index.html


It was my understanding that they should never be run in on empty and as a minimum some books should be lodged between each earspeaker. I have no idea whether this is actually true or whether it’s just another old wives tale.

I can say that having spent about 2 hours since I started using mine yesterday I have noticed the mids smoothing out.


----------



## timb5881

Has any one ordered any Stax products, new or used from Japan?   I was just wonder if there are any issues doing this, aside from no warranty?  Does one have to pay taxs or import duties?


----------



## 118900

timb5881 said:


> Has any one ordered any Stax products, new or used from Japan?   I was just wonder if there are any issues doing this, aside from no warranty?  Does one have to pay taxs or import duties?


Depends where you are importing them to. Normally yes you would find yourself paying appropriate import and value added taxes depending on where you are.


----------



## timb5881

juansan said:


> Depends where you are importing them to. Normally yes you would find yourself paying appropriate import and value added taxes depending on where you are.


I am in the USA, and I am not sure if there are just sales tax or if there is an import duty


----------



## wuwhere (Nov 17, 2020)

timb5881 said:


> I am in the USA, and I am not sure if there are just sales tax or if there is an import duty



I'm not sure about Japan. I bought an amp from Mjolnir from Iceland, a few grand, it was delivered to my home by USPS, no tax no duties. I'm in USA too. It just took a little longer, I can't remember if it was two or three weeks.

I've also bought a turntable from someone in Canada, over a grand. Again no tax or duties. Delivered to my home by USPS. Just took a little longer than usual. It sits in the port of entry for a while until it gets processed.


----------



## talan7

I order stuff from Japan all the time. I’ve never paid import tax or duties. I’m in the US


----------



## talan7

I just received my Stax earphones from Japan a couple of weeks ago. No duty


----------



## Mach3

I've ordered plenty of stuff from Japan. From electronic parts to Stax stuff of all sorts.
Even the Stax SR-009BK, didn't get charge any duty except for the time I order Stax SR-Ω and it was shipped via DHL Pack and Send (Avoid this company).
Got charge about $330 USD in import duty. Japan post don't charge duty from all the other 99% stuff I've ordered.
I'm from Australia by the way.


----------



## elton7033

yaluen said:


> In a factory tour article from a few years ago it was said all their headphones are energized for a period of 7-10 days as a part of their QA process. I doubt they're actually driven with any audio signals though.
> 
> https://www.ikebe-gakki.com/web-ikebe/pr_STAX_intvw/index.html


oh yeah it does mention a 7-10days aging (burnin) by plugging in to circuit but didn’t actually mention are they playing music or noise or nothing


----------



## elton7033

i got a question, since i own my 009 for 7years now what if I vacuum clean my stax with a vacuum cleaner, will it clean up all the dust or will that damage the drivers?


----------



## chocolates

that sounds extremely dangerous for the drivers, it's thinner than paper after all


----------



## PointyFox

Just air pressure changes due to donning/doffing the LCD-4 have been enough to break their drivers. Mine broke due to pressure changes during air travel.


----------



## 118900

wuwhere said:


> I'm not sure about Japan. I bought an amp from Mjolnir from Iceland, a few grand, it was delivered to my home by USPS, no tax no duties. I'm in USA too. It just took a little longer, I can't remember if it was two or three weeks.
> 
> I've also bought a turntable from someone in Canada, over a grand. Again no tax or duties. Delivered to my home by USPS. Just took a little longer than usual. It sits in the port of entry for a while until it gets processed.


I just did exactly the same thing but imported into Italy. Had to pay VAT.


----------



## 118900 (Nov 19, 2020)

Having spent several hours since Monday listening to the SR-007 Mk2's I am really really overwhelmed.

I thought I was happy with the Audeze LCD-4zs that I was using but in all honesty there is a noticeable improvement with the STAXs (which in themselves changed from sounding a little muddy to extremely open and clear within a couple of hours of use).

The Audeze's are very good HPs but there is definitely a veiling of the upper frequencies that the STAX's bring out so so well without ever sounding overly bright (I really hate bright headphones) and also retaining most, if not all, of the lower frequencies. The STAXs may be missing that faux-visceral base slam that the Audeze's do have, but only by a tiny bit and there is absolutely no way the STAX can be considered base shy, neutral if anything.

Now I finally know what it was that I always felt was missing from the Audeze's, the STAXs sound absolutely perfect, they really are stunning.

My thanks to @spritzer  for his help in guiding me on the purchase (based on my previous experience with STAX) and in supplying a fantastic amplifier to match them (and for his bass port modification instructions too!).


----------



## Mach3

This just happened. 




I'm officially broke


----------



## Tugbars

are those Spritzer's pair of HE90's?


----------



## Mach3

Yes they sure are, he shipped them to me at the start of the week.


----------



## chocolates

congrats! how's the sound?

by some coincidence, i noticed birgir had sold it just yesterday - nice to see who ended up receiving it!


----------



## elton7033

Mach3 said:


> This just happened.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


oh my goodness !
lucky you!
any review coming soon?


----------



## Mach3 (Nov 20, 2020)

Firstly I would like to thank Spritzer if he reading this. If anyone has doubts in dealing with him, don't as he is very friendly and helpful.

I think my ears are still adjusting to them.
But boy oh boy, they sound incredible.
They are liquid smooth from top to bottom. They have a very satisfying highs that doesn't sound intrusive at all, the Omega sounds more airy. Sound stage isn't as large as the Omega but somewhere the long the lines of a decent size living room. The lows, although not as deep down like the Omega, there more of it. One can definitely pickup the warmer, fuller presences. I listen to the mountain track from interstellar sound track. The rumble and slam was so controlled and articulate, unlike the 007. The slight forward mids sound magical, definitely HE90 strongest traits. The way the HE90 sound is tuned, it's like a genre master.
Almost everything I throw at it sound very decent, I listen to EDM, RnB, pop, classical, live etc for 5 hour straight not fatiguing at all. Also they are very forgiving with poorer recording.

To me the Omegas does sound more neutral and technically more accurate. But the way HE90 sound, I already know I will be reaching for them more often. It just super easy and enjoyable headphone to listen to. This headphone does truly the deserves the title 'GOAT' greatest of all times.


----------



## chocolates

gorgeous look! wonder if you can replace the leather? as i recall that pair was flaking


----------



## DougD

Mach3 said:


> Firstly I would like to thank Spritzer if he reading this. If anyone has doubts in dealing with him, don't as he is very friendly and helpful.


My experience also. (And mine was a small peanuts transaction.)



Mach3 said:


> To me the Omegas does sound more neutral and technically more accurate. But the way HE90 sound, I already know I will be reaching for them more often. It just super easy and enjoyable headphone to listen to. This headphone does truly the deserves the title 'GOAT' greatest of all times.



A win-win-win.

You get to enjoy the some GOAT-class gear, and apparently have the experience to fully appreciate it.

We get to ride along vicariously, a least a bit.

And his eminence the Icelander gets to re-invest in some other new projects. Which will also likely benefit the larger e-stats community.


----------



## Mach3

chocolates said:


> gorgeous look! wonder if you can replace the leather? as i recall that pair was flaking



He gave me brand new earpads and headband. I'll post photo later, I've already replaced them both.
The rest is in tip top condition. no scratches or dents at all.


----------



## BowWazoo

Im curious.
Vesper vs. 507 Pads


----------



## Mach3

chocolates said:


> as i recall that pair was flaking


Flaking no more


----------



## chocolates

whoa, looks brand new (i guess, in some sense, it is brand new!)


----------



## Mach3

The case needs a bit of TLC, there a few small dents.
Nothing some fillers, coloring and clear satin coat can't fix.


----------



## elton7033

Mach3 said:


> Flaking no more


Can contact me in the future when you are finished with it, I will be interested in buying  a pair of those someday!


----------



## BowWazoo

Ladies, I present the:

 "give me 2 zip ties, and your 507 will punch the bass in your face Mod"

 I don't know if it's because of my strange skull shape, but recently I noticed that when I push these places about 3-5mm towards my head, the bass is amplified enormously.

 My Lambda then knocks out the bass with something intense, and punch, that I can no longer recognize the Electrostats as such.
 An effect I was hoping for from the Vesper Pads.





At this point, I would like to ask other Lambda owners, to do the same, and to check whether this effect also exists for them.

  Anyway.
  Here is my solution for the ultimate 507 Lambda Bass.
Take 2 cable ties and fix them as follows:





  The further you close the cable tie, the more intense the bass becomes.

 Nerdy Lord... 
Daft punk with an electrostatic killer-bass ...😍


----------



## DougD

BowWazoo said:


> At this point, I would like to ask other Lambda owners, to do the same, and to check whether this effect also exists for them.


Doesn't change the sound for me, except create a crinkly sound that persists for 2-15 seconds.


----------



## 118900

BowWazoo said:


> Ladies, I present the:
> 
> "give me 2 zip ties, and your 507 will punch the bass in your face Mod"
> 
> ...


don’t you risk damaging the membranes doing that?


----------



## chocolates

seems like you just needed something to get a better seal


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6 (Nov 22, 2020)

BowWazoo said:


> Ladies, I present the:
> 
> "give me 2 zip ties, and your 507 will punch the bass in your face Mod"
> 
> ...


This just means that you weren't getting a good seal before. The seal is absolutely essential for electrostatic bass. 

I know this because if you had a good seal in the first place and then attempted to push them against your head even more you would get a "stax fart." Crinkle sound


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

So you have been listening to them with a poor seal this entire time.


----------



## elton7033

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> So you have been listening to them with a poor seal this entire time.


Apparently older stax lamda do very bad to provide a good seal for people who have bigger head diameter but in the newer series they solve this issue by increasing the pads thickness ?don't know how true is this but I remember some one mentioned in YouTube that they will revert the pads on the 303/404/507 to get a better seal...I personally have a medium Japanese (asian) head so I get good seal with my 404LE and my 009/009S.


----------



## catscratch

The newer ones actually do a worse job sealing imo, at least on people with wider heads. In the original L*00 versions the earcups couldn't rotate outwards far enough and the bottom of the earpad actually would come off and create a gap. The Mk2 versions have a differently shaped y-fork that allows for more rotation, but on my melonhead it's still not quite enough. There is a better seal and comfort level than with the original but it's still not great. The older SR-404 had no such issues. Also the L*00 series have a measurable bass roll-off on nearly every system, while the older ones did have completely flat bass on at least _some_ measurement systems, though they showed a rolloff on others. But measuring Stax is tricky and one shouldn't read too much into Stax bass measurements.

Also, not sealing has an interesting effect on sound. You get a bump in the midbass, around 60-100hz, and then a deep rolloff underneath. So if you're listening to music whose bass content is primarily in the midbass, you're actually getting _more_ bass out of a bad seal than you will out of a good one. A lot of older Lambdas are basically diffuse-field equalized or close to it, and with diffuse field you have a totally linear bass with no harman-like bass bump, which will give you a bass that's deep but somewhat light on punch. A bad seal instead will give you a bass that's more punchy but with less deep rumble.


----------



## BowWazoo

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> So you have been listening to them with a poor seal this entire time.


Yes, I think so, too.  
Earlier, I removed the cable ties again to compare them again.  
The difference is huge.  
I was hoping for this effect from the Vesper pads.  But unfortunately the bass with the Vesper pads was even worse


----------



## vitop

elton7033 said:


> Apparently older stax lamda do very bad to provide a good seal for people who have bigger head diameter but in the newer series they solve this issue by increasing the pads thickness ?don't know how true is this but I remember some one mentioned in YouTube that they will revert the pads on the 303/404/507 to get a better seal...I personally have a medium Japanese (asian) head so I get good seal with my 404LE and my 009/009S.


So how does one go about getting the required Asian head?


----------



## nastypoker

vitop said:


> So how does one go about getting the required Asian head?



There are certain SEA destinations that will cater to you if that is your sort of thing. 

Regarding amps....what should I get for a pair of SR-007mk2's? 353X won't cut it apparently with "only" 400v RMS but I am no expert. Ideally under £2k but don't mind used.


----------



## vitop

nastypoker said:


> There are certain SEA destinations that will cater to you if that is your sort of thing.
> 
> Regarding amps....what should I get for a pair of SR-007mk2's? 353X won't cut it apparently with "only" 400v RMS but I am no expert. Ideally under £2k but don't mind used.


lol... yes, I guess there is a double meaning in there.


----------



## chocolates

nastypoker said:


> There are certain SEA destinations that will cater to you if that is your sort of thing.
> 
> Regarding amps....what should I get for a pair of SR-007mk2's? 353X won't cut it apparently with "only" 400v RMS but I am no expert. Ideally under £2k but don't mind used.



used SRM-007t aren't too expensive, or an SRD-7 hooked up to a speaker amplifier. birgir also has some amps under £2k that are a good deal stronger than the equivalently priced STAX stuff, though i've never tried any of them personally


----------



## nastypoker

chocolates said:


> used SRM-007t aren't too expensive, or an SRD-7 hooked up to a speaker amplifier. birgir also has some amps under £2k that are a good deal stronger than the equivalently priced STAX stuff, though i've never tried any of them personally



Am I blind or does he not post the specifications on his website?


----------



## chocolates

i don't think he does  best to go ask the man himself or google around; i believe KGSSHV specs have been posted before. as i don't own any nor have i tried them, i'm probably not too qualified to speak to their performance


----------



## 118900 (Nov 23, 2020)

nastypoker said:


> There are certain SEA destinations that will cater to you if that is your sort of thing.
> 
> Regarding amps....what should I get for a pair of SR-007mk2's? 353X won't cut it apparently with "only" 400v RMS but I am no expert. Ideally under £2k but don't mind used.


Contact Birgir at mjolnir-audio (@spritzer  on here). He has second hand stuff which he has modified and brought up to current spec and beyond. I asked him the exact same question and he sold me a modified second hand srm-717 for the same headphones which according to him is on a par with a KHSSHV and the set-up totally outclasses the LCD-4z I had.

on his website he has a section showing all his modified second hand stuff but it’s worth contacting him just to check whether he has other amps in the works. Really nice and upfront/honest guy.


----------



## 118900

nastypoker said:


> Am I blind or does he not post the specifications on his website?


On his website he has a kgsshv (under used and one off Amps) that he purchased and modified (as it was apparently out of spec) and it runs at 450 volts


----------



## JwL10

Hi, new here at Head-Fi but have been lurking a couple of years.

I got a Srm-323s dirt cheap as the previous owner said it didnt work. He ran it on a cheap chinese stepdown-transformer as it was wired for 100v, maybe the transformer itself was busted.
I have now rewired it for 230v (added Blue and purple on transformer, changed jumpers from 1, 3, 6 to 2, 5) and it seems to work fine except I need to crank up the volume to about 1 o'clock for normal listening volume with my Lambda Pro's. Bias voltage is ~320vdc when measured before the bias resistor (R45).

Is this normal bias for this amp?


----------



## chocolates

that sounds low, it should be 580v i believe?


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

nastypoker said:


> There are certain SEA destinations that will cater to you if that is your sort of thing.
> 
> Regarding amps....what should I get for a pair of SR-007mk2's? 353X won't cut it apparently with "only" 400v RMS but I am no expert. Ideally under £2k but don't mind used.


Your best bet is to get an srd7 pro and a nice little speaker amp. I believe that there is an srd7 pro for sale now on the forums.


----------



## nastypoker

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> Your best bet is to get an srd7 pro and a nice little speaker amp. I believe that there is an srd7 pro for sale now on the forums.



Do you know what sort of speaker amp power is required to drive one of these? Finding info about anything electrostatic related is just a nightmare. Someone needs to make an electrostatic wiki.


----------



## Tugbars (Nov 24, 2020)

nastypoker said:


> Do you know what sort of speaker amp power is required to drive one of these? Finding info about anything electrostatic related is just a nightmare. Someone needs to make an electrostatic wiki.



Kenwood L07M, Threshold S200, Krell KS150, Nakamichi PA7, I've heard good things about Harman Kardon HK770 too. I've also heard load invariant amps should be better for the task. For Stax speakers, you definitely need a load invariant amp but for headphones, I don't know how necessary it is. Kevin Gilmore can maybe enlighten us about this. Threshold/Nakamichi from my recommendations are load invariant.


----------



## JwL10

chocolates said:


> that sounds low, it should be 580v i believe?



Yeah, I also think that. The specs say 580v, dunno if I measure on the correct point.
The only thing I can think of is the 630v 0.01uF metalized film caps for the bias, measured them straight on the board thus giving me 0.02uF, 0.02uF and 0.01uF. The two 0.02uF measurements should be correct as they are in pararell.

Transformer out gave 225vac and 255vac on the orange and red leads, the two rectifiers gave dc, big powercaps gave 220uF. Resistors and diodes in the bias-circuit is OK.

Maybe transformer thats busted? Cant find the specs for the Bando, dont say anything on the side either except model.id.

As for the volume, tried another source - with that normal listening volume at ~3-4 on the knob. Dont trust your phone as a source.


----------



## elton7033

https://stax.co.jp/2020/11/09/sr009dis/

Don't know have anyone post this yet but is sad to see the 009 discontinues with no sign of new successor of the omega series yet, since I consider the 009S being a refine sidegrade to the 009 I will be looking forward to the SR-011 in a few years time.


----------



## chocolates

> Thank you for your continued patronage of our products.
> 
> We have decided to discontinue the production of the following products, which have been patronized for a long time.
> 
> ...



(for those who need a quick translation)

pretty sad to see it go! is it confirmed they're working on another omega?


----------



## 118900

chocolates said:


> (for those who need a quick translation)
> 
> pretty sad to see it go! is it confirmed they're working on another omega?


It says a lot that they are discontinuing the SR-009 but not the older SR-007, however if they have developed the 009S as an improvement it does make sense, especially if the sales of the 009 have taken a hit.


----------



## catscratch

Is the 009BK discontinued as well?

Stax is a small business and there many reasons why they'd do this. Maybe sales aren't there, maybe supply of some critical component dried up, or maybe it just doesn't make sense to have so many 009 variants side by side. The reality of running a small business is that you never have enough money and enough people to do everything you need to do, so you have to make compromises and go for less than ideal solutions along the way.

Anyway I'm hoping for a new Omega that is not insanely priced, I'm hoping for improvements to the rest of the lineup with regards to tuning, and I'm hoping for the amps to get out of the 80s and modernize, but I think I'm going to be hoping for a long time.


----------



## JLoud

So only the 009 not 009S was discontinued?


----------



## Mach3 (Nov 24, 2020)

catscratch said:


> Is the 009BK discontinued as well?



the 009BK is pretty much discontinued as there was only 180 of them ever made.
I think there a few store left that has them in stock 2-3 I've seen online.
But once it sold it, up to the people who have them to sell them on the use market platform.

The new Omega was mention in a video by Edifier the current owner of Stax.
The release date is when the Japanese Stax team is ready. Which at the moment they are not ready.
The reason for this is the product cycle for their product is 10 years and above. Look at 007 and 009 as reference.
But a true Omega replace is in the works, as great as the 007 on a decent DIY amp. A true successor is long overdue.
Also, Stax has been very careful with product release and this includes their dated looking energizer.
Because I'm sure, they don't want a repeat of what happened in 1995 (went bust due to trying to create the best)
In 2011 was sold to Edifier, maybe due to stress associated with the releasing of the 009.
But notice, in both situation it was a release of a flagship that bought the company down.

In the end of the day they need to be profitable as they are a business.
Creating the best of anything and making last forever, isn't good long term business.


----------



## jenkinsontherun

VRacer-111 said:


> 1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The forum needs more mod posts like this.  Just take a camera, take a few pictures, no bs descriptions, and straight to the point.  Less is more.


----------



## Bonddam

I got imbalances on my 009s do I send it back or will it correct itself. It’s almost 3 months old.


----------



## catscratch (Nov 24, 2020)

Mach3 said:


> In the end of the day they need to be profitable as they are a business.
> Creating the best of anything and making last forever, isn't good long term business



Stax don't need to try and push out the best cost-no-object gear in the world, they just need to fix their own issues and update their amps to be able to drive their own headphones. If you can CCS mod the 006t and 007t to be higher output, why don't Stax do it from the factory? If you can easily feedback mod the 727 and improve the sound, why don't they do it from the factory? Why do their headbands for the L300 split in half, the L700 mk1 y-forks break, the fit on the new Lambdas be significantly worse than the old? Yes they've taken a few steps with the Mk2 Lambdas to fix these issues but they need to be doing more. This isn't the 90s when they were the de-facto leader in the high-end space. There is much more competition now and frankly they need to get a move on or be left behind.

I probably shouldn't get into tuning issues as that is subjective, and lots of people are totally fine with how Stax voices their headphones. But I'm not. Over the last 5 years I bought the L700, L700 Mk2, and 007 Mk2 and they all have tuning issues to the point that I have to EQ them to make them listenable. When you can pick up a pair of $220 Sennheisers that's better tuned than your $1k+ headphones, that is once again a real problem.

This sounds angrier than intended, but I've been using Stax for over 15 years, I'm something of a fan and I just don't see things currently heading in the right direction.


----------



## chocolates

Bonddam said:


> I got imbalances on my 009s do I send it back or will it correct itself. It’s almost 3 months old.


seems like you should have that checked out, 3 months is a bit young to have it develop channel imbalances


----------



## JLoud

catscratch said:


> Stax don't need to try and push out the best cost-no-object gear in the world, they just need to fix their own issues and update their amps to be able to drive their own headphones. If you can CCS mod the 006t and 007t to be higher output, why don't Stax do it from the factory? If you can easily feedback mod the 727 and improve the sound, why don't they do it from the factory? Why do their headbands for the L300 split in half, the L700 mk1 y-forks break, the fit on the new Lambdas be significantly worse than the old? Yes they've taken a few steps with the Mk2 Lambdas to fix these issues but they need to be doing more. This isn't the 90s when they were the de-facto leader in the high-end space. There is much more competition now and frankly they need to get a move on or be left behind.
> 
> I probably shouldn't get into tuning issues as that is subjective, and lots of people are totally fine with how Stax voices their headphones. But I'm not. Over the last 5 years I bought the L700, L700 Mk2, and 007 Mk2 and they all have tuning issues to the point that I have to EQ them to make them listenable. When you can pick up a pair of $220 Sennheisers that's better tuned than your $1k+ headphones, that is once again a real problem.
> 
> This sounds angrier than intended, but I've been using Stax for over 15 years, I'm something of a fan and I just don't see things currently heading in the right direction.


After watching video posted above and looking up what Edifier puts out, I'm a little worried about Stax going forward. Maybe I'm wrong and they can leverage their size to make improvements.


----------



## chocolates

edifier is totally hands-off stax: https://www.edifier.com/int/en/blog-news-press/edifier-acquisition-headphone-brand-stax

they acquired them 9 years ago, and none of the high-end offerings seem to have been particularly affected by the acquisition


----------



## JLoud

That's good to hear. I did like the idea of a new Omega. Of course what they will cost may change my excitement.


----------



## joseph69

JLoud said:


> So only the 009 not 009S was discontinued?


Both, the 009 & 009 Black Limited Edition are available at HeadAmp.
I was told by the Stax rep at the '19 CJNYC show that the 009 would be discontinued at some point.


----------



## JLoud

Well that stinks. Was hoping to pick one up in the future. However as I purchased joseph69's WA33 and ordered a HeadAmp BHSE in the last 3 months, I'm tapped out.


----------



## joseph69

JLoud said:


> Well that stinks. Was hoping to pick one up in the future. However as I purchased joseph69's WA33 and ordered a HeadAmp BHSE in the last 3 months, I'm tapped out.


Have you received the BHSE?


----------



## JLoud

Not yet. Received shipping notice Tuesday. Expected arrival says Friday. Probably Saturday or Monday the way shipping is now days.


----------



## joseph69

I asked because I see it listed in your signature, but haven't read any posts about it paired with the Voce


----------



## DougD (Nov 25, 2020)

catscratch said:


> Stax don't need to try and push out the best cost-no-object gear in the world, they just need to fix their own issues and update their amps to be able to drive their own headphones. If you can CCS mod the 006t and 007t to be higher output, why don't Stax do it from the factory? If you can easily feedback mod the 727 and improve the sound, why don't they do it from the factory?



That is insane, and I think the only good explanation is that Stax-Japan as a small company was so resource-constrained that they just couldn't spin very many plates at the same time.

You'd kinda think Edifier mgmt would have already made some headway on that front. The old "we bought your company because we think you have great products, but ALSO because we have big company resources and expertise to help lift you to even greater heights" speech, followed by some executive decision-making. (But with care, you don't want to piss off a small cadre of people with irreplaceable skills and knowledge.)



catscratch said:


> Why do their headbands for the L300 split in half, the L700 mk1 y-forks break, the fit on the new Lambdas be significantly worse than the old? Yes they've taken a few steps with the Mk2 Lambdas to fix these issues but they need to be doing more.



More of the same. "We understand that fixing these nit-picky problems hasn't been your top priority, but we have people who can help with QA, design, manufacturing process improvement, etc. In fact, here's some of those people right here ... meet Daquan and Jing-Sheng and Qi !  We can take this problem off your shoulders, so you can concentrate on the fun R&D stuff where you have the rare talent."



catscratch said:


> This isn't the 90s when they were the de-facto leader in the high-end space. There is much more competition now and frankly they need to get a move on or be left behind.
> 
> << snip >> This sounds angrier than intended, but I've been using Stax for over 15 years, I'm something of a fan and I just don't see things currently heading in the right direction.



There is a lot more competition and alternatives in the high-end h/p market now, but the worldwide demand for the high-end stuff is also up tremendously. You gotta think that Edifier bought Stax as a business with upside, not as a vanity project. We grasshoppers need a little patience, I guess. Edit: I see the acquisition was in 2011 ... guess we need more than just a little patience.


----------



## gurbina93 (Nov 25, 2020)

900 USD for a SRM-727A a good deal? Is it a good amp? Directly from Stax Japan.
I was looking for an amp earlier on, I still am as the one I was eye'ing got instantly bought by someone else.


----------



## Mach3

That's the first I heard a 009S failing that early.
Does anyone know if any of the 007 series have good record on driver failure rate? I've got 2x very old 007 Mk1.


----------



## catscratch

The biggest issue I know of with the early Mk1s is insufficient strain relief where the cable attaches to the driver, and some of them fail at that point. Mine's gone intermittent there though admittedly after years and years of heavy daily use. The drivers themselves are pretty robust afaik. Mk2s fixed that issue.


----------



## elton7033

gurbina93 said:


> 900 USD for a SRM-727A a good deal? Is it a good amp? Directly from Stax Japan.
> I was looking for an amp earlier on, I still am as the one I was eye'ing got instantly bought by someone else.


One of the best that offer by stax is for many years 
Not as good as the stax t8000 obviously 
And you might want to check out my for sale listing, I got one for sale now for about 780usd+shipping & PayPal, 100v version

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for...one-energizer-amplifier.947328/#post-15994910


----------



## Mach3

catscratch said:


> The biggest issue I know of with the early Mk1s is insufficient strain relief where the cable attaches to the driver, and some of them fail at that point. Mine's gone intermittent there though admittedly after years and years of heavy daily use. The drivers themselves are pretty robust afaik. Mk2s fixed that issue.



I'm aware of the strain relief issue with my Mk1 but both has been well looked after and I don't have that issue with sound intermittently cutting in and out. Also I noticed using most headphone doesn't help as they not tall enough causing the weight of the headphone putting a lot of pressure on the cable. Worst case scenario I can always purchase the cable for the 007 mk2 and have them install on the Mk1 for a piece of mind.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

catscratch said:


> Stax don't need to try and push out the best cost-no-object gear in the world, they just need to fix their own issues and update their amps to be able to drive their own headphones. If you can CCS mod the 006t and 007t to be higher output, why don't Stax do it from the factory? If you can easily feedback mod the 727 and improve the sound, why don't they do it from the factory? Why do their headbands for the L300 split in half, the L700 mk1 y-forks break, the fit on the new Lambdas be significantly worse than the old? Yes they've taken a few steps with the Mk2 Lambdas to fix these issues but they need to be doing more. This isn't the 90s when they were the de-facto leader in the high-end space. There is much more competition now and frankly they need to get a move on or be left behind.
> 
> I probably shouldn't get into tuning issues as that is subjective, and lots of people are totally fine with how Stax voices their headphones. But I'm not. Over the last 5 years I bought the L700, L700 Mk2, and 007 Mk2 and they all have tuning issues to the point that I have to EQ them to make them listenable. When you can pick up a pair of $220 Sennheisers that's better tuned than your $1k+ headphones, that is once again a real problem.
> 
> This sounds angrier than intended, but I've been using Stax for over 15 years, I'm something of a fan and I just don't see things currently heading in the right direction.


I'm not impressed with the "advanced" lambdas in general. They aren't advanced at all. The older lambdas were much better. The 009 and 007 have pretty much always been the same though. 

It would be interesting if Stax came out with a new Sigma but that probably isn't financially viable for them at this point.


----------



## timb5881

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> I'm not impressed with the "advanced" lambdas in general. They aren't advanced at all. The older lambdas were much better. The 009 and 007 have pretty much always been the same though.
> 
> It would be interesting if Stax came out with a new Sigma but that probably isn't financially viable for them at this point.


If they use existing drivers, then a Sigma model would only have the shell and headband assembly.   There is a guy in Hong Kong who makes the shell and headband's and can put your Stax Lambda drivers in it.


----------



## padam

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> I'm not impressed with the "advanced" lambdas in general. They aren't advanced at all. The older lambdas were much better. The 009 and 007 have pretty much always been the same though.
> 
> It would be interesting if Stax came out with a new Sigma but that probably isn't financially viable for them at this point.


They have discountinued all damped headphones (using mineral wool) a very long time ago (around 1995) and they probably won't ever revert back to using that because of Rohs regulations and other cost-related reasons.


----------



## DougD

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> It would be interesting if Stax came out with a new Sigma but that probably isn't financially viable for them at this point.





padam said:


> They have discountinued all damped headphones (using mineral wool) a very long time ago (around 1995) and they probably won't ever revert back to using that because of Rohs regulations and other cost-related reasons.


You're probably right, but a Sigma-2021 would have even thrifty me reaching for my wallet. 

(A parent speaker company that's reportedly made more than 100 million units might have some knowledge of damping materials and/or techniques.)


----------



## padam

DougD said:


> You're probably right, but a Sigma-2021 would have even thrifty me reaching for my wallet.
> 
> (A parent speaker company that's reportedly made more than 100 million units might have some knowledge of damping materials and/or techniques.)


They abandoned it because it is not economically viable to service such things.

You need to relate this concept to the SR-L700 Mk2. It would need to cost significantly more, the driver mounting is very different now, so that needs to be re-engineered as well, fairly heavy as well, etc. so the end result is definitely a good deal more than a new SR-007 Mk2 or a used SR-009, so very few people would actually buy one, and they probably wouldn't gain anything out of it.
They have the portable Stax, the Lambda line-up, the SR-007 and the SR-009 series and as much as I would like them to make something that is circular and smaller (like a new SR-X Mk3 Pro, SR-5 Gold Pro or something) these are more than enough for a small company like this.

The technology is already here to make a huge soundstage (far bigger than any Sigma) without other compromises that plague the Sigma design (boomy bass, limited frequency extension, etc.), it's called the Smyth Realiser A16.


----------



## vitop

DougD said:


> You're probably right, but a Sigma-2021 would have even thrifty me reaching for my wallet.
> 
> (A parent speaker company that's reportedly made more than 100 million units might have some knowledge of damping materials and/or techniques.)


I am so fortunate because when I reach for my wallet, there is nothing in it and it tends to dampen the sprees


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

padam said:


> They abandoned it because it is not economically viable to service such things.
> 
> You need to relate this concept to the SR-L700 Mk2. It would need to cost significantly more, the driver mounting is very different now, so that needs to be re-engineered as well, fairly heavy as well, etc. so the end result is definitely a good deal more than a new SR-007 Mk2 or a used SR-009, so very few people would actually buy one, and they probably wouldn't gain anything out of it.
> They have the portable Stax, the Lambda line-up, the SR-007 and the SR-009 series and as much as I would like them to make something that is circular and smaller (like a new SR-X Mk3 Pro, SR-5 Gold Pro or something) these are more than enough for a small company like this.
> ...


I've just purchased a Stax ED-1 Diffuse-Field Equalizer for my Lambda Professionals. It supposedly does amazing things to their soundstage and imaging. With covid-19 shipping delays who knows how long it'll take to be delivered though. I'll update you guys when I get it.


----------



## bigjako

timb5881 said:


> There is a guy in Hong Kong who makes the shell and headband's and can put your Stax Lambda drivers in it.



Can you provide any more details on this guy, does he have a website or an eBay store, or an account here?  Thank you... sounds like an interesting possibility.


----------



## chocolates

i wager he's talking about the guy behind the es-1a: https://www.eslabhk.com/


----------



## bigjako

chocolates said:


> i wager he's talking about the guy behind the es-1a: https://www.eslabhk.com/


Thank you, I emailed them.  If I understand it correctly, it would cost $325 to get the shells and do the mod (with my L300s, I think) myself.


----------



## gurbina93

I haven't even gotten a proper amp and now I am eager to give a go to the ES-Sigma, however I cannot find reviews or impressions anywhere. Any hints? 
They go for 800 USD with the 404 drivers., seems like a good price for it.


----------



## elton7033 (Nov 26, 2020)

Say bye to my SR404LE Lambda limited edition and welcome my new friend the SR007Mk1, my friend help me to bought a new old stock SR007Mk1 from a audio shop in Yokohama. It arrived today.
Before I get into the sound let me show you the condition of the new old stock SR007Mk1 lol

























Here is the sad thing I only got one top of the line electrostatic head so technically I can only wear one omega per time...my first impression with the 007Mk1 is damn...this thing is ultra good with the both BHSE and the Carbon I often ask myself is this even electrostatic, the bass just blew me back to moon! wait a minute, I just came to earth...

Since I remember I dislike the SR007Mk2 which I heard in Fujiya Avic headphone fest with the STAX SRM006t back in 2010/11, I really have no idea why the 007Mk2 or even the 007A are so different compare to these, I also have no idea how good is the blue tag mod on Mk2s... it sounds like a SR009 but with better bass responses, thick & lush texture and less treble spikes. No matter many does prefer 007Mk1 to the 009... but its not better than my 009 since its not as detail, the 007Mk1 is very close which I won't consider my 009 an full upgrade or successor to the 007Mk1 but rather something better but in a different way.
*SR009 still win in terms of comfort, detail, soundstage *
_*SR007Mk1 have better Bass Control / Bass extension, dynamics, texture, treble control*_
The 007Mk1 gives a different presentation to the 009 for sure and with Kelvin Gilmore`s design amp like the BHSE or My newly acquired Carbon  defiantly have enough voltage to swing this beast to full potential...



But when I plug it to my STAX SRM727A, its a day and night different where the 009 sounds still great but the 007 sounds muddy and lack of control and power even at low volume …

I don’t like the cup design though, since it rotate too much and the cushions seal badly making it very hard to get into the sweet spot. I just wonder is there anyway to stop these damn pads rotating when trying to lye down? and its very annoying when lying down breaks the seal and stax fart when the pillows hits the cups...these don't happen with the 009. Maybe I need some totl pillows lol

And I cant stop complaining the ear pads!!! how come a pair of msrp 200000yen headphone back in 1997 uses fake leather(or if its real bad quality leather) for its pads... since it get hot very easily, I might just order the real leather 007A pads in for Christmas. **On the user manual STAX mention the SR007Mk1 Brown pads are made by new technology leather so its not that hot during long listening secession.


----------



## elton7033

I just found out my 007mk1 serial number being #SZ1-1233, but I see many mk1 post in headfi start with the number 7? Can anyone tell the year of manufacturing by looking at the serial number?


----------



## chocolates

elton7033 said:


> And i cant stop complaining the ear pad!!! how come a pair of msrp 200000yen headphone back in 1997 uses fake leather(or if its real bad quality leather) for its pads... since it get hot very easily, I might just order the real leather 007A pads in for Christmas.



think you can send me the original pads if you order new pads?  i've got worn pads on a used pair that i'm having shipped to me and i rather like the original color to the 007A black pads


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6 (Nov 26, 2020)

elton7033 said:


> I just found out my 007mk1 serial number being #SZ1-1233, but I see many mk1 post in headfi start with the number 7? Can anyone tell the year of manufacturing by looking at the serial number?


I believe that they are lambskin, that is why they are so soft and spongy. As for the serial number, mine was SZ1-1587. I believe all of the earlier Mk.1s started with sz?


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

elton7033 said:


> Say bye to my SR404LE Lambda limited edition and welcome my new friend the SR007Mk1, my friend help me to bought a new old stock SR007Mk1 from a audio shop in Yokohama. It arrived today.
> Before I get into the sound let me show you the condition of the new old stock SR007Mk1 lol
> 
> 
> ...



You like the 007 mk.1s more than the 404Limited Editions? Wow, that was the opposite of my opinion on them. Different strokes for different folks. I'm not really a fan of any of the Omega series though.


----------



## Mach3 (Nov 26, 2020)

elton7033 said:


> I just found out my 007mk1 serial number being #SZ1-1233, but I see many mk1 post in headfi start with the number 7? Can anyone tell the year of manufacturing by looking at the serial number?



Earliest one are low 70XXX, comes with the carbon fibre box (Carbon bit is acutally sticker, I got Rick rollled).
Then late 7XXXX, came with non carbon fibre box. SZ1-1233 Mk1 came with black leather instead of brown. < I cloud be wrong on this one. Or maybe Japanese serial.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

Mach3 said:


> Earliest one are low 70XXX, comes with the carbon fibre box (Carbon bit is acutally sticker, I got Rick rollled).
> Then late 7XXXX, came with non carbon fibre box. SZ1-1233 Mk1 came with black leather instead of brown.


Mine were definitely brown.


----------



## Mach3

SR-007 Mk1 early version - different driver frame plus some minor material changes, older style carbon fiber box.
SR-007 Mk1 late version - the most common of the Mk1's, S/N either 7xxxx or SZ1-xxxx


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

At any rate, as long as they are Mk1s I don't think that the serial # makes a huge difference.


----------



## elton7033

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> You like the 007 mk.1s more than the 404Limited Editions? Wow, that was the opposite of my opinion on them. Different strokes for different folks. I'm not really a fan of any of the Omega series though.


404 is good headphone don't get me wrong but when I get those is very cheap many years ago and I earn almost a double when I sold my pair...i need some thing to replace my empty heart without my 404 so here comes the 007 lol


----------



## elton7033

Mach3 said:


> SR-007 Mk1 early version - different driver frame plus some minor material changes, older style carbon fiber box.
> SR-007 Mk1 late version - the most common of the Mk1's, S/N either 7xxxx or SZ1-xxxx


mine is brown as well, by the way mate any idea the year of manufacturing of a late mk1?


----------



## Mach3

Here are my 2 pairs brown and black champagne


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## elton7033 (Nov 26, 2020)

Mach3 said:


> Here are my 2 pairs brown and black champagne


oh my eyes just stairs at your he90 and the sr omega on top of i phones just lots of i phones....how many i phone do you own?


----------



## elton7033

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> I believe that they are lambskin, that is why they are so soft and spongy. As for the serial number, mine was SZ1-1587. I believe all of the earlier Mk.1s started with sz?


on the booklet inside the box it mention the brown pads are leather but compare to the one use in 009 is fit so tight and hot after fairly short time, my friend suggested that SZ is japan serial number for 007mk1 but not sure about the earlier one as well, may be @Mach3  is correct


----------



## Mach3

elton7033 said:


> oh my eyes just stairs at your he90 and the sr omega on top of i phones just lots of i phones....how many i phone do you own?


About 6 iphone I think, iphone 2G, iphone 3GS, iphone 4s, iphone 5s, iphone 6s & iphone 7 plus red edition.
They just used to raise the headphone as most stand too short, it damage the cables entering the headphone/cable relief over time


----------



## newaudio46

I’m interested it buying a second hand 007mk2 the serial is sz3-16** does anyone know if that’s the 2.9 version ?


----------



## elton7033

Mach3 said:


> About 6 iphone I think, iphone 2G, iphone 3GS, iphone 4s, iphone 5s, iphone 6s & iphone 7 plus red edition.
> They just used to raise the headphone as most stand too short, it damage the cables entering the headphone/cable relief over time


Opps let me be careful with my stand the 007mk1 is famous for relief trouble, is it better if I store it in the box rather than using the stand?


----------



## chocolates

Mach3 said:


> Here are my 2 pairs brown and black champagne



small fortune in this picture alone


----------



## DougD

chocolates said:


> small fortune in this picture alone


Let's just think of it as "a museum-quality collection."


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## Hubert481

Do the 4 apple boxes energize the air?


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## Mach3 (Nov 26, 2020)

elton7033 said:


> Opps let me be careful with my stand the 007mk1 is famous for relief trouble, is it better if I store it in the box rather than using the stand?


Either as long as the cable where it enter the headphone isn't bent more than 45 degree.
I'm making some cheap clips to prevent this. Will take photo later.



chocolates said:


> small fortune in this picture alone





DougD said:


> Let's just think of it as "a museum-quality collection."



Guilty... I'm a bit of a pedantic collector. Everything has to be secured so they last.
Planning on getting an insurance policy in case of a house fire.
Pretty much I'm content, just need to source a DIY T2 and my Summit Fi journey ends.


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## elton7033 (Nov 26, 2020)

Mach3 said:


> Either as long as the cable where it enter the headphone isn't bent more than 45 degree.
> I'm making some cheap clips to prevent this. Will take photo later.
> 
> 
> ...



try the KGSS nanotube? Should be better than the T2 if you can find anyone building that... carbon as input stage and like 3power supply to power the thing on a 900v pick... if anyone is going to make it it will be more or less same price or even more expensive then the T2...
I am very surprise to see you using STAX SRM-323S? (the small stax amp on your table) how can that little thing manage to drive any of your totl electrostatics?


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## elton7033 (Nov 26, 2020)

Hubert481 said:


> Do the 4 apple boxes energize the air?


May be it ionizing the air so less dust will be around the table like a air purifier lol

But ionizing the air is a good idea for electrostatic owner if you don't have a air condition with air purifier function.
By the way, I always have a Sharp Plasmacluster besides my Marin Logan electrostatic speakers to keep dust away from them and it works like a champ.


----------



## Hubert481

SHARP FPF60UW Plasmacluster?

I have ML Ethos and are really happy with them.


----------



## Mach3

elton7033 said:


> KGSS nanotube


You mean the Circlotron. Gave up on that idea ages ago. That thing is so rare I haven't actually seen photo of it anywhere.
Beside the T2 already has so much power to blow up any of the Stax.
Also more power doesn't necessarily mean better sound.
General consensus is, the T2 pairs up well with the 007, 009, Omega and HE90.

The Circlotron is so rare I don't think there any builders out there that has under taken the task.
Correct me if I'm wrong, if you have links to the photo by all mean please share.


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## elton7033 (Nov 27, 2020)

Mach3 said:


> You mean the Circlotron. Gave up on that idea ages ago. That thing is so rare I haven't actually seen photo of it anywhere.
> Beside the T2 already has so much power to blow up any of the Stax.
> Also more power doesn't necessarily mean better sound.
> General consensus is, the T2 pairs up well with the 007, 009, Omega and HE90.
> ...


I think there are 2 or 3 around KGSShv Nanotube/ Circlotron around in the market I defiantly saw photo of one . But if anyone is going to build one, you really need someone that you can trust or else that thing will just blew your omega sky hi, there's  photos some where in headcase I remember on the finish one have red colour board.
https://www.head-case.org/forums/to...p-buy-circlotron/?tab=comments#comment-700365

https://www.head-case.org/forums/to...re-high-slew-electrostatic-amplifier/page/11/

↑people in headcase are really trying to build it.


----------



## Tugbars

The amp in the second picture is KG Space Heater as far as I know. It can deliver 50mA output with Silicon Carbide transistors.


----------



## Mach3

Damn who built the third one?


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## Tugbars (Nov 27, 2020)

Sorry, I was wrong. I did a research about KG's Circlotron amp.

That thing wasn't Space heater, it was made for Circlotron build.

https://www.head-case.org/forums/to...ure-high-slew-electrostatic-amplifier/page/4/







For those who are interested in, that whole thread is fun to read.



That's how it looks inside. It appears that the builder couldn't solve the humming problem. It was exciting for me to read his progress.


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## elton7033 (Nov 27, 2020)

Tugbars said:


> Sorry, I was wrong. I did a research about KG's Circlotron amp.
> 
> That thing wasn't Space heater, it was made for Circlotron build.
> 
> ...



but can you teach me what is a Space heater, is it something between the carbon/groud grid and the nanotube /Circlotron ? so many kgss model to remember


----------



## elton7033

Mach3 said:


> Damn who built the third one?


is a guy on headcase if you want a nanotube/ Circlotron  go to headcase and ask, you might be able to find a guy to build you one


----------



## chocolates

i just received my SR-007 / SRM-007t, and it sounds great, except for one problem - the SRM-007t keeps blowing the fuse on my step down transformer. anyone know what the issue would be?

it's the powerbright 120v/100v step down transformer, and the SRM-007t is made for japan and rated for 100v


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## Mach3

What voltage are you using? I have the 007t too you can re-wire them to be 220-240, 100, 110 and 120.


----------



## paradoxper

elton7033 said:


> try the KGSS nanotube? Should be better than the T2 if you can find anyone building that... carbon as input stage and like 3power supply to power the thing on a 900v pick... if anyone is going to make it it will be more or less same price or even more expensive then the T2...
> I am very surprise to see you using STAX SRM-323S? (the small stax amp on your table) how can that little thing manage to drive any of your totl electrostatics?


This is silly. No one is going to build you a Circlotron.


----------



## chocolates

Mach3 said:


> What voltage are you using? I have the 007t too you can re-wire them to be 220-240, 100, 110 and 120.


100v according to the back panel. how do you rewire them?


----------



## vitop

chocolates said:


> 100v according to the back panel. how do you rewire them?


You need to be sure that it is really 100V. Mine is also marked as 100V but when I looked at it to try and set it up for 117V, I found it had already been done.


----------



## chocolates

ah.... interesting. that's possible, though i bought it from a seller in japan, so i feel like odds are it's probably 100v. that would explain why the fuse has blown twice though.

gotta say though, when it's working, the tube sound is... very interesting


----------



## Mach3

What voltage are you using in your country?
To change the voltage to where ever your country is, you need to pop off the cover for the 007t and re-wire the board behind the transformer.


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## elton7033 (Nov 28, 2020)

chocolates said:


> i just received my SR-007 / SRM-007t, and it sounds great, except for one problem - the SRM-007t keeps blowing the fuse on my step down transformer. anyone know what the issue would be?
> 
> it's the powerbright 120v/100v step down transformer, and the SRM-007t is made for japan and rated for 100v


you need a bigger better step down transformer if you want to stay 100v, if the coil with in the transformer is circular it will even better for lower noise floor, but I have been using japan 100v audio product in London for a decade now and never blew a single fuse
you can try toei transformer from akihabara they made very bullet proofs one
https://toei-trans.jp/?mode=cate&cbid=1990149&csid=0


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## elton7033 (Nov 27, 2020)

paradoxper said:


> This is silly. No one is going to build you a Circlotron.


I believe someone will try if I pay enough. For me, although I am now happy with my carbon but if I am looking for a circotron I will pay somewhere up to 40000usd which is not enough to buy anything near the best with my other hobby for example: watches/ car/ nihonto ... I am in to money no object stuff when I am up to the best


----------



## paradoxper

elton7033 said:


> I believe someone will try if I pay enough for me, although I am now happy with my carbon but if i am looking for a circotron I will pay somewhere up to 40000usd which is not enough to buy anything near the best with my other hobby for example: watches/ car/ nihonto ... i am in to money no object stuff when I am up to the best


Try as you might. The answer isn't throw money at the problem until it sticks. Clueless.


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## elton7033 (Nov 27, 2020)

paradoxper said:


> Try as you might. The answer isn't throw money at the problem until it sticks. Clueless.


The following is a bit off topic but investing to solving a problem which benefits the community even if the investment didn't pay back is not a big deal, if no one investing on new stuff we wont be having so many innovation around. And I strictly believe is the responsibility for people who is able to led this path will make tomorrow a better place for all.
I believe what`s common with many audiophile is when searching for better sound solution money doesn't come first but our passion to seek better sound. Hence people like KG give their design away for free and keep improving. Same as edifier supporting STAX or the original STAX people believes on inventing the electrostatic headphone back in 1938, they can just build nice dynamic driver and make things a little bit easier and profitable.
I am very serious with my hobby and stuff that I like. When we look at high end concept and developments it always have problems but if no one willing to try to fix and improve with end user backing it up financially no technology is going to be widely available. Again this is just my believe so leave this right here and carry on with STAX discussion.


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## paradoxper (Nov 27, 2020)

elton7033 said:


> The following is a bit off topic but investing to solving a problem which benefits the community even if the investment didn't pay back is not a big deal, if no one investing on new stuff we wont be having so many innovation around. And I strictly believe is the responsibility for people who is able to led this path will make tomorrow a better place for all.
> I believe what`s common with many audiophile is when searching for better sound solution money doesn't come first but our passion to seek better sound. Hence people like KG give their design away for free and keep improving. When we look at high end prototype it always have problem but if no one willing to try to fix and improve with end user backing it up financially no technology is going to be widely available. I am very serious with my hobby and stuff that I like. Again this is just my believe so leave this right here and carry on with STAX discussion.


Forest for the trees, my man.

Carry on.


----------



## chocolates

Mach3 said:


> What voltage are you using in your country?
> To change the voltage to where ever your country is, you need to pop off the cover for the 007t and re-wire the board behind the transformer.


120v to 100v, but yeah... looks like i'm gonna have to check out what's underneath the hood



elton7033 said:


> you need a bigger better step down transformer if you want to stay 100v, if the coil with in itthe transfromer is circular it will even better for lower noise floor, but I have been using japan 100v audio product in london for a decade now and never blew a single fuse
> you can try toei transfromer from akihabara they made very bullet proofs one
> https://toei-trans.jp/?mode=cate&cbid=1990149&csid=0


interesting, thanks!

i will say though, the sr-007 sounds amazing when the amplifier decides to work. maybe someday i'll try it out on a BHSE or something but it doesn't seem too bad paired with the 007t


----------



## elton7033

chocolates said:


> 120v to 100v, but yeah... looks like i'm gonna have to check out what's underneath the hood
> 
> 
> interesting, thanks!
> ...


Both the Headamp BHSE and Mjölnir Audio KGSShv Carbon are very good but I believe the BHSE with RK50 is currently out of stock.


----------



## chocolates

apologies for the gigantic images. trying to figure out the input voltage here but i can't really find any references to what it should look like (only posts about changing the input voltage, which aren't quite as helpful)


----------



## chocolates

fuses are set to 1,3,6 so this definitely seems to be a 100v amplifier. i really have not the slightest clue why this is blowing fuses on my step down transformer (aside from the possibility that the amplifier itself is busted somewhere along the way). any ideas?


----------



## Hubert481

You should ask therefore here
https://www.head-case.org/forums/forum/12-headphone-amplification/


----------



## Mach3

chocolates said:


> fuses are set to 1,3,6 so this definitely seems to be a 100v amplifier. i really have not the slightest clue why this is blowing fuses on my step down transformer (aside from the possibility that the amplifier itself is busted somewhere along the way). any ideas?



Do you know what the outlet voltage in your house?
If it 120V at 60hz then yes it will the blow fuses if amp is set at 100V 50hz


----------



## chocolates

i think it's most likely a short somewhere in the amplifier - i'll figure it out later i suppose. thanks all for the help (that head-case forum looks intriguing)

my house is 120v/60hz but i have a 120v/100v step down transformer and the stax amp is set to 100v


----------



## chocolates

ha - upon inspecting the internals, i found 8FQ7 tubes instead of the 6FQ7 tubes they're supposed to come with


----------



## streamenterer

chocolates said:


> ha - upon inspecting the internals, i found 8FQ7 tubes instead of the 6FQ7 tubes they're supposed to come with


Yes, I have a 007tA from Japan with 8FQ7s. See the last post on this page: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-new.223263/page-151


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6

chocolates said:


> ha - upon inspecting the internals, i found 8FQ7 tubes instead of the 6FQ7 tubes they're supposed to come with


Looks like you've got a rarity on your hands.


----------



## chocolates

whoa, that's interesting. thanks for the link! i was searching for any references to it but only found a couple listings of 007t's with them


----------



## Mach3

elton7033 said:


> I am very surprise to see you using STAX SRM-323S? (the small stax amp on your table) how can that little thing manage to drive any of your totl electrostatics?


Nope, those are SRM-252S, SRM-212 and the rare SRM-X Pro on the desk. I got no space on the small desk.
Move the KGSSHV on my entertainment unit in my small room.


----------



## chocolates

that's a nice collection! i think i spy an 007t? 

do you have a preference among them?


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## Mach3 (Nov 28, 2020)

Strange but they all sound different from the baby energizer to the KGSSHV. All the tube have a slight more fuller sound to them like the 007t and the SRM-600.
KGSSHV has the clearest sound of them all with plenty of power.
Preference are tube with leaner sounding Stax like the L300, SR-009.
Other like SR-007 sound better with the KGSSHV


----------



## elton7033

Mach3 said:


> Strange but they all sound different from the baby energizer to the KGSSHV. All the tube have a slight more fuller sound to them like the 007t and the SRM-600.
> KGSSHV has the clearest sound of them all with plenty of power.
> Preference are tube with leaner sounding Stax like the L300, SR-009.
> Other like SR-007 sound better with the KGSSHV


Really? I prefer my 007 on BHSE and the 009 on KGSSHV Carbon...


----------



## Mach3

elton7033 said:


> Really? I prefer my 007 on BHSE and the 009 on KGSSHV Carbon...


I haven't heard them on the carbon or the BHSE so I can't comment, plus misses don't want me to get anymore gear. So will be getting rid of a few things before I can get the T2


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

Mach3 said:


> Nope, those are SRM-252S, SRM-212 and the rare SRM-X Pro on the desk. I got no space on the small desk.
> Move the KGSSHV on my entertainment unit in my small room.


Good lord, are those Stax ELS-F81s? 
Also, nice to see another Quad ESL 63 owner here.


----------



## Mach3

Yes, they are the super rare F81. I was planning to get the Quad 57 & Quad 63 as I just think they are the most natural sounding speakers. I got lucky found a excellent condition F81 so ended with that and the Quad 63 instead. They pretty much compliment each in term of different genre.


----------



## chocolates

whoa, didn't even notice those! must have cost a pretty penny


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## elton7033 (Nov 29, 2020)

Mach3 said:


> I haven't heard them on the carbon or the BHSE so I can't comment, plus misses don't want me to get anymore gear. So will be getting rid of a few things before I can get the T2


I think my 007 is even smoother with the BHSE which defiantly don't sounds quite like an electrostatic at all but with all the might of the electrostatic magic. Regarding SR009, kgsshv carbon seems to give a little more bass and treble extension, well tamed highs and a bit better in overall resolution compare to the BHSE, so its seems to be a better match for the 009. But both amp are so good, so I am selling my Stax SRM727A which is decent with the 009 but not satisfy when pair with the 007 at all. again this is to my ears.


----------



## elton7033 (Nov 29, 2020)

Mach3 said:


> Nope, those are SRM-252S, SRM-212 and the rare SRM-X Pro on the desk. I got no space on the small desk.
> Move the KGSSHV on my entertainment unit in my small room.


that's lots of speaker, how many speaker amp is there? I only got the Martin Logan Summit-X electrostatic speaker but is no where as detail as my STAX SR009 despite its price.
And my long forgotten monitor audio pl100 in the living room...


----------



## Mach3

chocolates said:


> whoa, didn't even notice those! must have cost a pretty penny


Bought it off a senior on gumtree who was cleaning out his shed, he just wanted gone as he no longer had time to enjoy them.
I just saw the Stax logo on the ad and enquire how much he wanted them for. 
The asking price was less than a third of what I would have paid for a fully restored Quad 57.
I figured if it need the drivers replaced/restored it would still be more cost effective than the Quad 57 which was fetching 4-5K USD
They worked fine when I got them home, but due to age was getting even more inefficient than their stated spec of 73db SPL.
So they are extremely hard to drive, very hard to find an amp that can drive them properly.
Best amp for them is the legendary Stax DMA-X2 (super rare in working condition) I think I've only seen 2-3 in the last 25 years.
Anyway I got in touch with Kent from ElectroStatic Solutions who was an expert in Stax and Quad electrostatic speaker.
I got him to restore the panel to it former glory and got advice to improve the RC board and upgrade the power board.
So it doesn't zap the diaphragm and burn a hole through them when over driving them. 
Kent charges are very reasonable, $700 for both panel and shipped back to Australia, which is like halfway across the globe.
Currently can output around 90-92dB with 75 watts on my Primaluna tube amp. A bit more after upgrade all 8x EL34 to KT150 100 watts.
After finding out about Stax F81 and the Stax DMA-X2, made me realized that Stax was so far ahead of their times.
Turn me instantly into a die hard Stax fanboy. #StaxBro


----------



## Mach3

chocolates said:


> whoa, didn't even notice those! must have cost a pretty penny


Sent the detail for the voltage selection for you already with photo.



elton7033 said:


> that's lots of speaker, how many speaker amp is there? I only got the Martin Logan Summit-X electrostatic speaker but is no where as detail as my STAX SR009 despite its price.
> And my long forgotten monitor audio pl100 in the living room...


Besides the electrostatic the other two in the photo are ProAc 1sc & ProAc Studio 100. There 3 other in storage as I don't have space (floor stands) ProAc 3.8, ProAc 2.5 & the Rogers LS6a which I'm trying to sell as it's similar to the Studio 100.
Amp is only the Primaluna, Beta22 surprising can power the ProAc 1SC and Studio 100 to decent level and a California Electronics 200 watt power amp.


----------



## 118900

When using electrostatics in general Is it normal to hear a very very faint hum when there is no music playing?


----------



## chocolates

i think i'm normally very sensitive to faint hums, but i've never heard any even with the pot turned way up. which electrostatic and energizer are you using?


----------



## 118900 (Nov 30, 2020)

chocolates said:


> i think i'm normally very sensitive to faint hums, but i've never heard any even with the pot turned way up. which electrostatic and energizer are you using?


Sr-007 mk2 and a spritzer modified srm-717. I seem to recall the same thing on the old srs-3030 system I had a few years ago. It’s really really faint and only audible when there is no music playing as in there has to be absolute silence to hear it but wondered if it was normal.


----------



## elton7033 (Dec 1, 2020)

juansan said:


> Sr-007 mk2 and a spritzer modified srm-717. I seem to recall the same thing on the old srs-3030 system I had a few years ago. It’s really really faint and only audible when there is no music playing as in there has to be absolute silence to hear it but wondered if it was normal.



I don’t think that’s something normal I have so far 4 electrostatic cans over the last decade(SR001Mk2, SR009,404LE& SR007Mk1) but none of them exhibit such a problem, except for the right channel noise issue before my last kgss blew up and some channel imbalance which cause by either the pot not sync well at low volume level or just didn’t use the can for too long


----------



## theweezle

So.... I have heard a buzz like you talk about on my 252s and my 207 twice!
First when I moved to my last apt. I plugged my wall wart into my APC I had for my PC, and it went away. This is realistically the best solution if you have a noisy power line. 
Eventually, I started getting a buzz on my 207s. I bought L700s to replace them and the buzzing went away. put the 207s back into the amp, and its there again. I think the phones just develop a buzz with several (10+) years of aging. 

You can of course have buzzing from anything though (an amp cap drying out, dying dac, etc).
If youre having the same buzz across multiple amps, and multiple phones, then its most likely the DAC or wall power.


TLDR: 
In your case, try plugging the energizer into an APC and a different DAC.


----------



## Mach3

I had the similar issue with my SRM-252S before I changed the caps on the power sections and change the crappy wall wart to a linear one with higher amp.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

juansan said:


> When using electrostatics in general Is it normal to hear a very very faint hum when there is no music playing?


No, not at all.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

The capcacitors probably need to be replaced.


----------



## chocolates

something i've been curious about is what sort of power is needed to give the O2s, since it seems to get loud enough from the SRM-252S, which is pretty low power as far as stax energizers go. it honestly doesn't sound as compressed/harsh as people make it out to be?

it certainly sounds different on the 007t, but part of that seems to be the tubes (or maybe the 007t's relatively poor design?)


----------



## theweezle

So I had a question.... I have been using my L700 on my 252S for a while now, and To my current ears I cant hear any problems....
I cant really demo it in a store, but I was wondering if a 323S or 353X or 727A would really make a big difference.
Any Opinions?


----------



## elton7033

theweezle said:


> So I had a question.... I have been using my L700 on my 252S for a while now, and To my current ears I cant hear any problems....
> I cant really demo it in a store, but I was wondering if a 323S or 353X or 727A would really make a big difference.
> Any Opinions?


Never tried the L700 with 252S so I guess I cannot comment the particular setup, but for electrostatic headphone in general is the amp which play a major factor compare to normal dynamic ones, the energizer will bring out the characteristic of the headphone more than anything would do. For example the SR007, can sound muddy and roll off with STAX amp because its not producing enough voltage per second to swing it up to it true performance not even the 727, therefore something like a BHSE is needed. However, for me most STAX energizer(amplifier) are underrated, the 006t/007t/717/727 is actually quite good with the lambda series headphone(I used to have 404LE) and they are very budget solution even for omega owners since a Carbon or BHSE cost at least 4X the price of a 727/007t. hope this help.


----------



## gurbina93 (Dec 2, 2020)

theweezle said:


> So I had a question.... I have been using my L700 on my 252S for a while now, and To my current ears I cant hear any problems....
> I cant really demo it in a store, but I was wondering if a 323S or 353X or 727A would really make a big difference.
> Any Opinions?


I think it will all depend on how loud you wanna go and if you want to EQ your headphones.

I'm not an audiophile so my opinion is of a common consumer trying to get the best bang for your buck in my hobby.

I think between a 252S, a 353X, 727A will at best have a slight difference in sound quality/sound signature but prob unnoticeable to most ears, specially on a Lambda series.
Power is the main thing here. I like bumping up the subbass (20Hz-60Hz) region to get that rumbling and slammy bass that you find in many songs from artists like NIN, Hans Zimmer.

Problem here is that just bumping for example 30Hz by 7-9dB on the 252S to get that rumbling bass won't get you anywhere near a high volume.
It starts clipping whenever the bass kicks in... it just can't provide enough juice to the headphones.

I haven't tried things like a KGSSHV, Carbon or BHSE. I don't doubt these will be beneficial but for that kind of headphone but I wouldn't go for anything higher than a 353X or a Mjolnir amp of similar price range unless you own picky headphones like the 007, otherwise you won't gain much out of it for the pretty penny they cost.

I'm still looking around for a cheap custom amp for mine, but I think I'll settle for a new 353X or Mjolnir amp. Prob 353X is the best choice here and recommended by my local dealer for the Lambda series over more pricey amps. Can get some used 353X for a very good price shipped from Singapore.
I'm about to pull the trigger this weekend, but I'll go to the dealership and try both the D50 and 353X. The looks, features and size of the D50 look enticing but they recommended me the 353X if I'm not getting enough power out of the 252S. When it comes to specifications they seem to have the same power output.

The only downside of Mjolnir and I haven't inquired, but I'm guessing after shipping such a brick and paying taxes I might be better off with a 353X.

But that's my opinion, value and budget is important to me and then after a certain point is diminishing returns for the equipment I own and what satisfies me.


----------



## elton7033

chocolates said:


> something i've been curious about is what sort of power is needed to give the O2s, since it seems to get loud enough from the SRM-252S, which is pretty low power as far as stax energizers go. it honestly doesn't sound as compressed/harsh as people make it out to be?
> 
> it certainly sounds different on the 007t, but part of that seems to be the tubes (or maybe the 007t's relatively poor design?)


go to can jam or any local meet try the O2 with anything like the T8000/WES/BHSE/Carbon and you might be surprise.


----------



## Tugbars (Dec 2, 2020)

gurbina93 said:


> I think it will all depend on how loud you wanna go and if you want to EQ your headphones.
> 
> I'm not an audiophile so my opinion is of a common consumer trying to get the best bang for your buck in my hobby.
> 
> ...



A good second hand speaker amp + energizer has the best price/performance ratio among all possible Stax solutions.You need way more current than what 353X or others can offer to get the best out of your lambdas. Speaker amps & energizers can deliver abundant amount of current.(possibly with a 100W into 8 ohm amp you can get more power than Carbon to drive your headphones) Assuming you'll get a good linear vintage amp for a good price, you'll get much closer to audio nirvana than any other solutions for the price you'd pay for 727A. And Yes, putting a transformer at the end of the signal path has it's downsides, that's why I don't say it's the endgame solution.


----------



## elton7033 (Dec 2, 2020)

gurbina93 said:


> I think it will all depend on how loud you wanna go and if you want to EQ your headphones.
> 
> I'm not an audiophile so my opinion is of a common consumer trying to get the best bang for your buck in my hobby.
> 
> ...


I know this is out of topic but is interesting that L700 second hand price is similar to SR007Mk2 in japan? And funny enough some L700Mk2 is cheaper than normal L700...I remember years ago the SR007Mk1 used to be affordable as well but now is similar to a the SR007A(2.9)...


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## nastypoker (Dec 2, 2020)

Tugbars said:


> A good second hand speaker amp + energizer has the best price/performance ratio among all possible Stax solutions.You need way more current than what 353X or others can offer to get the best out of your lambdas. Speaker amps & energizers can deliver abundant amount of current.(possibly with a 100W into 8 ohm amp you can get more power than Carbon to drive your headphones) Assuming you'll get a good linear vintage amp for a good price, you'll get much closer to audio nirvana than any other solutions for the price you'd pay for 727A. And Yes, putting a transformer at the end of the signal path has it's downsides, that's why I don't say it's the endgame solution.



Any advice on a speaker amp to drive a 007 through an SRD-7 pro? Is 60W RMS @ 8ohms per channel powerful enough?


----------



## theweezle

Tugbars said:


> A good second hand speaker amp + energizer has the best price/performance ratio among all possible Stax solutions.You need way more current than what 353X or others can offer to get the best out of your lambdas. Speaker amps & energizers can deliver abundant amount of current.(possibly with a 100W into 8 ohm amp you can get more power than Carbon to drive your headphones) Assuming you'll get a good linear vintage amp for a good price, you'll get much closer to audio nirvana than any other solutions for the price you'd pay for 727A. And Yes, putting a transformer at the end of the signal path has it's downsides, that's why I don't say it's the endgame solution.



So the reason I ask is because I found 2 old stax amps. A 323A for $220 and 323S for $330, a 727A is still like $800 Used, a bit pricey for me....Especially when I can get a new 353x for less with warranty. 

My plan was buy the 323S unless its not good enough... I live in Japan, so all of the non-stax energizers are pricey comparatively.


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## elton7033 (Dec 2, 2020)

theweezle said:


> So the reason I ask is because I found 2 old stax amps. A 323A for $220 and 323S for $330, a 727A is still like $800 Used, a bit pricey for me....Especially when I can get a new 353x for less with warranty.
> 
> My plan was buy the 323S unless its not good enough... I live in Japan, so all of the non-stax energizers are pricey comparatively.


try yahuoku or audiounion
https://www.audiounion.jp/ct/products/used/A8/A8J/-/page/1/new_enddate/0/

you cant beat 007t for 59800yen (570USD)
https://www.audiounion.jp/ct/detail/used/176446/

or 006tA for 43800yen?(410USD)
https://www.audiounion.jp/ct/detail/used/177074/

323S is around the same price but doesn't sound as good...at lease you are getting high end stuff, the L700 deserves a better amp than 323S


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## theweezle

elton7033 said:


> try yahuoku or audiounion
> https://www.audiounion.jp/ct/products/used/A8/A8J/-/page/1/new_enddate/0/
> 
> you cant beat 007t for 59800yen (570USD)
> ...



I actually have no problem with the 007t pricing. I had actually heard that the L700 was better on SS over tubes (and that 007 and 009 were better on tubes). Hence why that original list of amps was all SS.


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## Tugbars (Dec 2, 2020)

nastypoker said:


> Any advice on a speaker amp to drive a 007 through an SRD-7 pro? Is 60W RMS @ 8ohms per channel powerful enough?



I haven't done the calculations but based on an article I read in a DIY forums: Yes, 60W into 8ohms per channel is enough. You can get old Kenwood's L07-MII , Nakamichi Pa5 or Threshold S150 for 700$.(sometimes even less)


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## nastypoker

Tugbars said:


> I haven't done the calculations but based on an article I read in a DIY forums: Yes, 60W into 8ohms per channel is enough. You can get old Kenwood's L07-MII , Nakamichi Pa5 or Threshold S150 for 700$.(sometimes even less)



Sorry yeah, you recommended those to me a few pages ago. I am looking for something a bit more modern with more features. Just trying to plan my whole hifi system layout and want to go in with just some basic specs that I need for the 007's and then I can work around that. 60W @ 8ohms is easy enough to work from and I will be looking for a class A or AB amplifier. 

Thanks!


----------



## chocolates

elton7033 said:


> go to can jam or any local meet try the O2 with anything like the T8000/WES/BHSE/Carbon and you might be surprise.


haha, if only... maybe when quarantine lets up next year



elton7033 said:


> I know this is out of topic but is interesting that L700 second hand price is similar to SR007Mk2 in japan? And funny enough some L700Mk2 is cheaper than normal L700...I remember years ago the SR007Mk1 used to be affordable as well but now is similar to a the SR007A(2.9)...


i noticed that on ヤフオク - but i got my sr007mk1 relatively cheap from there (15000jpy shipped including the srm-007t i've been talking about). L700mk1 is quite expensive though for some reason.


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## 118900 (Dec 2, 2020)

theweezle said:


> So.... I have heard a buzz like you talk about on my 252s and my 207 twice!
> First when I moved to my last apt. I plugged my wall wart into my APC I had for my PC, and it went away. This is realistically the best solution if you have a noisy power line.
> Eventually, I started getting a buzz on my 207s. I bought L700s to replace them and the buzzing went away. put the 207s back into the amp, and its there again. I think the phones just develop a buzz with several (10+) years of aging.
> 
> ...


I spoke with spritzer who modified the amp and he is suggesting that it is probably interference  from the mains cable running close to the analogue interconnects.

it’s not at all a problem as I can really only just barely hear it with no music playing but I was curious as to what was causing it.


----------



## elton7033 (Dec 3, 2020)

chocolates said:


> haha, if only... maybe when quarantine lets up next year
> 
> 
> i noticed that on ヤフオク - but i got my sr007mk1 relatively cheap from there (15000jpy shipped including the srm-007t i've been talking about). L700mk1 is quite expensive though for some reason.



You mean 150000 yen right? (About 1500usd) I never saw any 007+amp sold for 15000yen which is about 150usd... I have been using yahoo auction for years now and looking at it daily.

A few years ago, when SR009 start to be widely available in Japan the price of second hand SR007 did drop to around 90000 yen which makes the 150000yen price seems reasonable, but now the second hand price of SR007 rise again at about 120k-160k depends on condition especially for the 007A and brown Mk1. Its always demand and supply problem, not to forget the SR009 used to be a 5000usd headphone when launch.

After all these years SR007 still have its hardcore fan like the SR-Omega even if they own the SR009/009S...

For me, SR009 make everything sounds so nice which is unrealistic in a senses and not that neutral with the treble although the 009S is even more artificial.

Those second hand STAX energizers are really hard to sell in japan anyway, since even big audio store like sound 110 are having a hard time on selling second hand amp.


----------



## chocolates

yes, sorry - missed a 0 there  should be 150,000jpy after shipping: https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w428296608

honestly, turned out better than expected, and no longer killing my transformer after readjusting bias; i probably need to replace the caps though (the big 400v ones look a little domey)


----------



## elton7033

chocolates said:


> yes, sorry - missed a 0 there  should be 150,000jpy after shipping: https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w428296608
> 
> honestly, turned out better than expected, and no longer killing my transformer after readjusting bias; i probably need to replace the caps though (the big 400v ones look a little domey)


oh this!! I remember seeing that , but seems like you need new earpads...


----------



## Tugbars

nastypoker said:


> Sorry yeah, you recommended those to me a few pages ago. I am looking for something a bit more modern with more features. Just trying to plan my whole hifi system layout and want to go in with just some basic specs that I need for the 007's and then I can work around that. 60W @ 8ohms is easy enough to work from and I will be looking for a class A or AB amplifier.
> 
> Thanks!



To come close to the quality of those amps with modern equipment you should say goodbye to your 3k$ and more. 007 is very unforgiving about amplification and sounds extremely bad with bad equipment.


----------



## nastypoker

Tugbars said:


> To come close to the quality of those amps with modern equipment you should say goodbye to your 3k$ and more. 007 is very unforgiving about amplification and sounds extremely bad with bad equipment.



I guess I just need to do some testing then! I will keep my eye out for one of your listed vintage amps and see what I can find. Here is my layout plan for my home setup.


----------



## elton7033

nastypoker said:


> I guess I just need to do some testing then! I will keep my eye out for one of your listed vintage amps and see what I can find. Here is my layout plan for my home setup.


if you can afford the topping d90+a90 I am sure that you can afford a very good stax amp!


----------



## nastypoker

elton7033 said:


> if you can afford the topping d90+a90 I am sure that you can afford a very good stax amp!



Everyone keeps saying that Stax amps are easily beaten by either speaker amps or magic boxes from Iceland. Either way, I need an amp for speakers as well so combining forces makes a bit of sense.


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## chocolates (Dec 3, 2020)

elton7033 said:


> oh this!! I remember seeing that , but seems like you need new earpads...


yep :s i filled out the pads a little since they were collapsing with 4mm of merino wool felt, but the pleather is a little degraded. i'm not sure if there are other pad options but i had heard the 009 pads sound and feel best, and they're the same price as the 007 pads; i just wish they weren't black since i like the brown and champagne look best

e: probably need to recable it too, which is going to be significantly more annoying than replacing earpads


----------



## Mach3

elton7033 said:


> You mean 150000 yen right? (About 1500usd) I never saw any 007+amp sold for 15000yen which is about 150usd... I have been using yahoo auction for years now and looking at it daily.
> Those second hand STAX energizers are really hard to sell in japan anyway, since even big audio store like sound 110 are having a hard time on selling second hand amp.


I think the biggest reason why there's a resurgence of 007 love is people starting to realize how well it scales with better energizer.
When it was initially released, the options was very limited. So it never really reached it full potential until now, look at all the amazing options of decent energizers, commercial & diy.
We live in a very exciting time, just wow 007t with 007 for 150000 yen
Japan need to export all these unloved energizer oversea. It so expensive over here.


----------



## elton7033

nastypoker said:


> Everyone keeps saying that Stax amps are easily beaten by either speaker amps or magic boxes from Iceland. Either way, I need an amp for speakers as well so combining forces makes a bit of sense.


I agree


chocolates said:


> yep :s i filled out the pads a little since they were collapsing with 4mm of merino wool felt, but the pleather is a little degraded. i'm not sure if there are other pad options but i had heard the 009 pads sound and feel best, and they're the same price as the 007 pads; i just wish they weren't black since i like the brown and champagne look best
> 
> e: probably need to recable it too, which is going to be significantly more annoying than replacing earpads


why recable? you gonna put a 009earpads and cable onto it? I wonder will 009 earpads even fit as 009 is bigger than 007...that's one hell of a Frankenstein lol


----------



## elton7033

Mach3 said:


> I think the biggest reason why there's a resurgence of 007 love is people starting to realize how well it scales with better energizer.
> When it was initially released, the options was very limited. So it never really reached it full potential until now, look at all the amazing options of decent energizers, commercial & diy.
> We live in a very exciting time, just wow 007t with 007 for 150000 yen
> Japan need to export all these unloved energizer oversea. It so expensive over here.


you will be surprise on 717 prices, its a better amp than the 727 but way cheaper.


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## elton7033 (Dec 3, 2020)

Mach3 said:


> I think the biggest reason why there's a resurgence of 007 love is people starting to realize how well it scales with better energizer.
> When it was initially released, the options was very limited. So it never really reached it full potential until now, look at all the amazing options of decent energizers, commercial & diy.
> We live in a very exciting time, just wow 007t with 007 for 150000 yen
> Japan need to export all these unloved energizer oversea. It so expensive over here.


You have better amps but it you still want some old stax vibes for non pro bias cans you can still use auction services which helps you to bid and export to your country...idk I am looking for a pair of decent sigma pro...but good condition one doesn't show up as often or maybe going with the he60 route since I cant get a he90 yet


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6

nastypoker said:


> Everyone keeps saying that Stax amps are easily beaten by either speaker amps or magic boxes from Iceland. Either way, I need an amp for speakers as well so combining forces makes a bit of sense.


For Lambdas Stax's driver units are quite nice. Clean high quality power. The problem is that they simply don't have enough juice for the Omega series. 





chocolates said:


> yep :s i filled out the pads a little since they were collapsing with 4mm of merino wool felt, but the pleather is a little degraded. i'm not sure if there are other pad options but i had heard the 009 pads sound and feel best, and they're the same price as the 007 pads; i just wish they weren't black since i like the brown and champagne look best
> 
> e: probably need to recable it too, which is going to be significantly more annoying than replacing earpads


007 pads are lambskin, not pleather. Also, I never had a problem with the cables, I'm not sure why everyone complains about them but they're fine. Just rotate the cups a little when you put them on the stand and on your head.


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6

chocolates said:


> yes, sorry - missed a 0 there  should be 150,000jpy after shipping: https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w428296608
> 
> honestly, turned out better than expected, and no longer killing my transformer after readjusting bias; i probably need to replace the caps though (the big 400v ones look a little domey)


Jesus, those things are beat to hell. Just throw a new pair of 007 pads on them. The black on brown is going to be ugly though.


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## elton7033

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> Jesus, those things are beat to hell. Just throw a new pair of 007 pads on them. The black on brown is going to be ugly though.


can either spray paint it to brown lol or change the head band assembly to a black one (007A)


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## chocolates

yeah, still unsure which way to go. i'd prefer the brown honestly but doesn't seem like you can get any without paying out the wazoo..

i had heard that the 009 earpads fit the 007 fine, but if that's not true then i'll just get the regular 007 pads  



6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> 007 pads are lambskin, not pleather. Also, I never had a problem with the cables, I'm not sure why everyone complains about them but they're fine. Just rotate the cups a little when you put them on the stand and on your head.


my pair's left and right channels both seem to cut out if you pull on them slightly, which is the only reason why i was thinking of recabling it (or at least inspecting the solder joint). but it doesn't bother me either, when i have them pointing a little outward they don't seem to have any issue, even when i'm moving around at my desk.


----------



## robo24

chocolates said:


> yeah, still unsure which way to go. i'd prefer the brown honestly but doesn't seem like you can get any without paying out the wazoo..
> 
> i had heard that the 009 earpads fit the 007 fine, but if that's not true then i'll just get the regular 007 pads
> 
> ...


the 009 pads are much easier to put on the 007 than the 007 pads are. You also don't need the spring with them.


----------



## Mach3

chocolates said:


> i'm not sure if there are other pad options but i had heard the 009 pads sound and feel best, and they're the same price as the 007 pads; i just wish they weren't black since i like the brown and champagne look best


Vesper Audio make custom pad for the 007 in the brown colour.


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## elton7033 (Dec 4, 2020)

Mach3 said:


> Vesper Audio make custom pad for the 007 in the brown colour.


this is god send i am looking for a pair of new pads for my Sony R10...and here it is


----------



## Mach3

I've bought a lot of pad from them. The quality exceed the original, they even custom the pads for SR-Omega.
Super soft lambskin, memory foam and cool gel, seal is absolute.


----------



## Sound Eq

is the difference in power between stax 007tii and stax 006ts big, and is there a difference in sound


----------



## chocolates

the SR-007 sounds soooo weird coming out of a 252s. there's literally a hole in 7.5k and it can barely do 40-50hz.


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## elton7033

chocolates said:


> the SR-007 sounds soooo weird coming out of a 252s. there's literally a hole in 7.5k and it can barely do 40-50hz.


007 are very unforgiving and require very high quality amplification in order to bring out its potential. I think the BHSE with 007 is still one of the benchmark for electrostatic until today although the 007 also did a great job with my Iceland magic box (carbon). I guess it sound awesome with a T2.


----------



## chocolates

yeah i know haha, i was just trying it out for kicks and was surprised at how poor it was. does anyone know why it performs so much worse though (like, in terms of electronics?) is it the bias voltage not being high enough?


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## elton7033

i think its because of voltage but even with my 727A the 007 didn't sound that great but the 009/S did a lot better with the 727


----------



## rayofsi

chocolates said:


> the SR-007 sounds soooo weird coming out of a 252s. there's literally a hole in 7.5k and it can barely do 40-50hz.


the 007s need a powerful energizer to shine... the 252s... are definitely not powerful.


----------



## chocolates

ah, shame - I was watching a good condition SR-007mk1 on ebay and it went for $1650. did anyone here pick it up?


----------



## bluesbassplayer

I have some sr-007 Mk2s with sz3-1700+ serial number that I bought used a year ago.   I opened them up to do a blu-tack mod.  These were not ported.  I have had older mk2s so I know where the port is and what it looks like.   In the case of these they are solid in that area (no port).  I have been trying to search for information on this big change and at what serial it might have happened at.   I got to thinking, I guess someone could have changed out the plastic frame where the port would be, but that doesn't seem likely to me.   Long story short - anyone else come across a non-ported sz3 "2.9"?


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## Mach3

chocolates said:


> ah, shame - I was watching a good condition SR-007mk1 on ebay and it went for $1650. did anyone here pick it up?


Whoever did, that a pretty decent price. As I feel the Mk1 more closely matches the Harman curves more so than even the port modded MK2 and MK2.9 etc. Base on all the Harman curve graphs I've seen on all the 007 variants.


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## Tugbars (Dec 13, 2020)

007mkI has -8.5db at 2800hz compared to harman curve, 007 mkII's 2800hz is -5db. 007mkI is, however, closer to harman curve after 4khz compared to mk2.9.


----------



## chocolates

Mach3 said:


> Whoever did, that a pretty decent price. As I feel the Mk1 more closely matches the Harman curves more so than even the port modded MK2 and MK2.9 etc. Base on all the Harman curve graphs I've seen on all the 007 variants.


I was thinking of getting it (i actually had 5% ebay bucks too..) but I decided not to because I'm a little short on funds with the holidays and all  maybe next time. that being said i'm pretty happy with my 007mk1 even though it's pretty scuffed - if I could just figure out how to recable it safely it'll be good as new


----------



## elton7033

chocolates said:


> I was thinking of getting it (i actually had 5% ebay bucks too..) but I decided not to because I'm a little short on funds with the holidays and all  maybe next time. that being said i'm pretty happy with my 007mk1 even though it's pretty scuffed - if I could just figure out how to recable it safely it'll be good as new


if you are planning to buy from ebay you should also look out for yahoo japan auction I saw one sold last 3 weeks for 120000yen which is about 1200usd. you can import it using through a agent, you normally need to pay for service charge and shipping but still cheaper than ebay.


----------



## elton7033

Tugbars said:


> 007mkI has -8.5db at 2800hz compared to harman curve, 007 mkII's 2800hz is -5db. 007mkI is, however, closer to harman curve after 4khz compared to mk2.9.


since I am not a technical person, I have no idea on words but I will learn how to read measurement one day if someone teaches me. yea the 007Omega2 sounds a bit more natural compare to the 007A on my ears, but i have no idea how the graph present them lol


----------



## chocolates

elton7033 said:


> if you are planning to buy from ebay you should also look out for yahoo japan auction I saw one sold last 3 weeks for 120000yen which is about 1200usd. you can import it using through a agent, you normally need to pay for service charge and shipping but still cheaper than ebay.


ah, wow. yeah, i currently use proxy service for japan (japan is where i got my SR-007), but didn't think i could find any new SR-007s. i'll keep an eye out!

I swear to god there was a thread in head-fi about recabling the SR-009, but I can't find it - anyone know where it's hiding?


----------



## Tugbars

007A sounds colored in mids because of the 1-1.5khz honk/shout. The purpose of spring mod is to eliminate that.


----------



## 118900

What Hifi Review of the sr-L700 if anyone is interested


----------



## bigjako

Apologies if this doesn't belong here, but I thought it best to go to the source.  I recently bought an SRM-T1S and enjoyed it very much for about two weeks until the left side went 99% dead. Took it to Mike Check audio here in LA and he discovered that the K389 transistor was the culprit.  He and I both can only find them in China right now, so I was wondering if a) anyone has a tip on a North American source b) has a spare in their own personal connection or c) could suggest a suitable (or better) replacement.  I will email Birgir as well. 

Thanks for any tips.


----------



## Mach3

You wouldn't to happen to be running the energizer of a step up or step down transformer would you?
Last thing you want is to replace the transistor and the same thing happens again.


----------



## bigjako

Mach3 said:


> You wouldn't to happen to be running the energizer of a step up or step down transformer would you?
> Last thing you want is to replace the transistor and the same thing happens again.


I am using a step-up transformer, yes (Japan --> US) so I don't believe that caused it, at least I hope not.  The guy who is repairing the amp is going to try to swap the internal wirings to make it US voltage.  I opened it up originally with the thought of doing it myself but quickly (and smartly) decided not to mess with that myself (I am not handy, really).

It was working well, then one Saturday I got some new XLRs and was swapping back and forth between RCA and XLRs and as soon as I turned it on the next day, the left side was out.  I recall reading somewhere in the manual about not swapping back and forth like that - maybe that caused it, I don't know.  I proactively bought two matched pairs of Raytheon 6CG7 tubes just in case it was a tube issue, too.  While he has it, I'm tempted to have him do some upgrades but I don't really even know how to properly communicate what I want.  

For now, though, I just want my T1S back and operational.  While it was with Mike Check, I bought a 252s for $210 off eBay, and after much USPS delays, it arrived this weekend DOA - wouldn't power on at all.  I was able to return it, but I've been listening only to my dynamic headphones while I wait for an electrostatic amp, any amp.  I have an SRDX but after hearing the T1S it's hard to listen to the SRDX, or at least not as rewarding.  Going back to dynamic has been alright, I guess, like revisiting your hometown after years away.  It also syncs up with my balanced Argon Mk3 expected arrival, which I ordered back in August, so I'll get to spend more time with them when they do arrive.  But I need me some electrostatic amplification, stat.


----------



## chocolates

if i had to guess it'd be the switching of RCA/XLR. hopefully you can find that transistor though, or find a replacement - birgir should know best though. could also ask that fellow who created the CCS mod for the T1S


----------



## chocolates

neat pair of vintage ESS-4A speakers, though they don't look like they're in great condition: https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/d492675106


----------



## Mach3

Hook them up to a decent tube amp and a REL sub and BOOMM....  instant Summit Fi


----------



## chocolates

wish i could bid! these are far too big for me to import into the US at the moment since i'm in a small apartment til the new house is finished


----------



## vitop

Well, I finally got my SRM-717 and signature 404 headphones onto my system and I have to say it's some of the worst sound I have heard. It breaks up at moderate volumes and is not all that clear. This is my first time with STAX and everything I have read says that my experience is not typical. The problem is that... well, I don't know where the problem is.

It is hooked up to my computer. The setup is an optical feed out of my computer into a Geshelli DAC into the STAX. I also feed a pair of self powered Genelac speakers which sound great so I think it is in the STAX setup but honestly, it could be a non optimal computer setting, cables, the amp or maybe the headphones need to be redone. I'm not sure. I'd love to start with trying a different set of headphones. Does any company allow you to try a set of STAX before buying? If a second set of cans is also bad, then I guess I've got to start moving downwire and look at replacing various components and variables to find the problem. They just sound too distorted not to think that I don't have a problem. I don't think I am listening to a proper STAX setup. I am in Northern Houston. Not sure if anyone knows a place in town that has some STAX cans to borrow or listen to? COVID complicates everything unfortunately.


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## 118900 (Dec 19, 2020)

vitop said:


> Well, I finally got my SRM-717 and signature 404 headphones onto my system and I have to say it's some of the worst sound I have heard. It breaks up at moderate volumes and is not all that clear. This is my first time with STAX and everything I have read says that my experience is not typical. The problem is that... well, I don't know where the problem is.
> 
> It is hooked up to my computer. The setup is an optical feed out of my computer into a Geshelli DAC into the STAX. I also feed a pair of self powered Genelac speakers which sound great so I think it is in the STAX setup but honestly, it could be a non optimal computer setting, cables, the amp or maybe the headphones need to be redone. I'm not sure. I'd love to start with trying a different set of headphones. Does any company allow you to try a set of STAX before buying? If a second set of cans is also bad, then I guess I've got to start moving downwire and look at replacing various components and variables to find the problem. They just sound too distorted not to think that I don't have a problem. I don't think I am listening to a proper STAX setup. I am in Northern Houston. Not sure if anyone knows a place in town that has some STAX cans to borrow or listen to? COVID complicates everything unfortunately.


Definitely not just “not typical” but downright anomalous. Do you have a different line output source to connect to the srm-717? Anything will do, even a neighbours CD player or even an iPhone if you have a minijack to 2 rca’s cable. If that sounds ok then it’s not the amp or headphones.

do you have both sets of inputs connected? (RCA and xlr)


----------



## vitop

juansan said:


> Definitely not just “not typical” but downright anomalous. Do you have a different line output source to connect to the srm-717? Anything will do, even a neighbours CD player or even an iPhone if you have a minijack to 2 rca’s cable. If that sounds ok then it’s not the amp or headphones.
> 
> do you have both sets of inputs connected? (RCA and xlr)


Yes, I have also been trying to think of what other inputs I could use. I am pretty sure I do not have a lightning to RCA cord for my iphone, but I have an old ipod that has a miniplug. I have been wanting to see if I had a miniplug to RCA cord, and I might have that. Then of course, I need to figure out how to get some music on the ipod, lol. I am also thinking in the back of my head that I have an old DVD player that is not hooked up. If I could find that, I could throw in a CD and use that. It would be the easiest. I am outputing an XLR signal from the DAC into the 717 right now, but can easily switch to the RCA into the DAC if I can lay my hands on the DVD player. That is a huge piece of the puzzle. Once I can determine if the signal into the DAC is a problem or not, it narrows things down.


----------



## 118900

vitop said:


> Yes, I have also been trying to think of what other inputs I could use. I am pretty sure I do not have a lightning to RCA cord for my iphone, but I have an old ipod that has a miniplug. I have been wanting to see if I had a miniplug to RCA cord, and I might have that. Then of course, I need to figure out how to get some music on the ipod, lol. I am also thinking in the back of my head that I have an old DVD player that is not hooked up. If I could find that, I could throw in a CD and use that. It would be the easiest. I am outputing an XLR signal from the DAC into the 717 right now, but can easily switch to the RCA into the DAC if I can lay my hands on the DVD player. That is a huge piece of the puzzle. Once I can determine if the signal into the DAC is a problem or not, it narrows things down.


You confirm you haven’t connected both the RCA and XLR inputs at the same time?


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## vitop (Dec 19, 2020)

I have not, although Geshelli says the outputs are separate and they can both be used at once. I am only using the XLR at this time

On reading your question, I think you were referring to the amp and not the DAC. Yes - only using the XLR on that also


----------



## chocolates

vitop said:


> Well, I finally got my SRM-717 and signature 404 headphones onto my system and I have to say it's some of the worst sound I have heard. It breaks up at moderate volumes and is not all that clear. This is my first time with STAX and everything I have read says that my experience is not typical. The problem is that... well, I don't know where the problem is.
> 
> It is hooked up to my computer. The setup is an optical feed out of my computer into a Geshelli DAC into the STAX. I also feed a pair of self powered Genelac speakers which sound great so I think it is in the STAX setup but honestly, it could be a non optimal computer setting, cables, the amp or maybe the headphones need to be redone. I'm not sure. I'd love to start with trying a different set of headphones. Does any company allow you to try a set of STAX before buying? If a second set of cans is also bad, then I guess I've got to start moving downwire and look at replacing various components and variables to find the problem. They just sound too distorted not to think that I don't have a problem. I don't think I am listening to a proper STAX setup. I am in Northern Houston. Not sure if anyone knows a place in town that has some STAX cans to borrow or listen to? COVID complicates everything unfortunately.


definitely strange - the 717 should easily power those. unfortunately without a second set of either headphones or stax amp it'd be hard to determine which one is the issue (if either). you might have to replace the caps in the 717?

i doubt it's the cables or the computer setting. also, is your 717 wired for US voltage (120v)?


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## 118900

vitop said:


> I have not, although Geshelli says the outputs are separate and they can both be used at once. I am only using the XLR at this time
> 
> On reading your question, I think you were referring to the amp and not the DAC. Yes - only using the XLR on that also


Yes I meant on amp (inputs). Even though it has a switch, you can only connect one set at a time.
Try connecting the DVD player you mentioned or a different input to test the amp/headphones.


----------



## vitop

chocolates said:


> definitely strange - the 717 should easily power those. unfortunately without a second set of either headphones or stax amp it'd be hard to determine which one is the issue (if either). you might have to replace the caps in the 717?
> 
> i doubt it's the cables or the computer setting. also, is your 717 wired for US voltage (120v)?


That was an initial concern I had when I bought it. The back of the amp says 100V but I opened it up and it is wired for 117V. Someone must have already made the change.


----------



## catscratch

The 717 should under no circumstances be breaking up at high volumes pushing just a 404 so it seems like you've got technical problems. If there is a possibility of it, try to find another amp to see if it's the headphones, or another set of headphones to see if it's the amp. Otherwise, you'll need to find someplace to repair it. Given that it's a 100V unit converted to 117V there might be issues as Stax are notorious for not wanting to work on grey-market items outside of Japan, but maybe they will in your case as it's used? Alternatively, maybe find a shop that specializes in repairing old electronic equipment, specifically audio, download a 717 schematic from somewhere and let them test it. It might be tricky as electrostatic amps aren't exactly commonplace and most places will have no experience whatsoever working on them.

But if you're wondering if what you're hearing is normal, it most certainly isn't. A good electrostatic given enough power should be able to play with no audible distortion whatsoever at over 100db.


----------



## chocolates

vitop said:


> That was an initial concern I had when I bought it. The back of the amp says 100V but I opened it up and it is wired for 117V. Someone must have already made the change.



can you take pictures of the internals? this honestly sounds like some of your electrolytic caps are busted which should be pretty simple to verify (and, fortunately, fix)


----------



## vitop

catscratch said:


> The 717 should under no circumstances be breaking up at high volumes pushing just a 404 so it seems like you've got technical problems. If there is a possibility of it, try to find another amp to see if it's the headphones, or another set of headphones to see if it's the amp. Otherwise, you'll need to find someplace to repair it. Given that it's a 100V unit converted to 117V there might be issues as Stax are notorious for not wanting to work on grey-market items outside of Japan, but maybe they will in your case as it's used? Alternatively, maybe find a shop that specializes in repairing old electronic equipment, specifically audio, download a 717 schematic from somewhere and let them test it. It might be tricky as electrostatic amps aren't exactly commonplace and most places will have no experience whatsoever working on them.
> 
> But if you're wondering if what you're hearing is normal, it most certainly isn't. A good electrostatic given enough power should be able to play with no audible distortion whatsoever at over 100db.


I need to try the DVD player. I did finally lay my hands on it. If that doesn't fix it, then I agree... I am going to have to find either an amp or headphones (or both) to swap out. I have no idea where in the world I am going to find someone to let me borrow their expensive equipment to troubleshoot so I am probably going to have to find a shop, tell them what is going on and see if they will let me "buy" the equipment with the caveat that I may return it in a few days. A shop that rents out STAX amps is not something you find in the yellow pages, lol


----------



## vitop

chocolates said:


> can you take pictures of the internals? this honestly sounds like some of your electrolytic caps are busted which should be pretty simple to verify (and, fortunately, fix)


Yes, I can do that. How long do I need to let it sit before it is safe to take it apart? I know they are kind of dangerous with the high voltage until they discharge. Any of the caps more important than the others? I didn't remember seeing any of them bulging, but honestly I was more focused on the way it was wired up.


----------



## vitop

I'm kind of thinking out loud here... but assuming trying the DVD player does not clear things up, does anyone know of a good headphone rebuilder? I am probably not going to get someone to send me (a stranger) a set of headphones to try, so I might have to send mine out to have tested if need be. Then the question becomes.... is it worth a rebuild or just buying a new set....  
The real first step is to figure out what is wrong so going this route would hopefully determine if the headphones were good.


----------



## chocolates

vitop said:


> Yes, I can do that. How long do I need to let it sit before it is safe to take it apart? I know they are kind of dangerous with the high voltage until they discharge. Any of the caps more important than the others? I didn't remember seeing any of them bulging, but honestly I was more focused on the way it was wired up.


weird, if nothing's bulging then it's a little trickier, though it still sounds like at least one cap is out. probably wouldn't hurt to recap the big ones anyway, those are the ones that tend to die first if i recall correctly (more knowledgeable people are free to correct me on this)



vitop said:


> I'm kind of thinking out loud here... but assuming trying the DVD player does not clear things up, does anyone know of a good headphone rebuilder? I am probably not going to get someone to send me (a stranger) a set of headphones to try, so I might have to send mine out to have tested if need be. Then the question becomes.... is it worth a rebuild or just buying a new set....
> The real first step is to figure out what is wrong so going this route would hopefully determine if the headphones were good.


rebuilding a stax headphone is hard and pricey if it's driver failure.. probably best to get a new pair of cans at that point. if you can somehow get your hands on a second amplifier (like the 252s) you might be able to isolate where the issue is


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## vitop

chocolates said:


> weird, if nothing's bulging then it's a little trickier, though it still sounds like at least one cap is out. probably wouldn't hurt to recap the big ones anyway, those are the ones that tend to die first if i recall correctly (more knowledgeable people are free to correct me on this)
> 
> How long does it need to sit before it is discharged? I was going to try to hook up the DVD player tonight. I guess I can do that and then wait a few days before I open it up
> 
> rebuilding a stax headphone is hard and pricey if it's driver failure.. probably best to get a new pair of cans at that point. if you can somehow get your hands on a second amplifier (like the 252s) you might be able to isolate where the issue is


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## vitop

Well, shoot....
So it does seem to be either the amp or the headphones. Still very distorted sound. 

I completely bypassed the DAC and the computer. I went directly from the RCA on the back of the CD player to the back of the amp. So I switched out the XLR cables too. It's not cables. It's either the amp or the headphones.

So now I have to see what I can accomplish without something to swap out. I am thinking the only other thing I can really accomplish is to open it up and look at the caps closely. Other than that, I am pretty well out of luck until I can find a way to have the amp and headphones checked out.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

vitop said:


> Well, I finally got my SRM-717 and signature 404 headphones onto my system and I have to say it's some of the worst sound I have heard. It breaks up at moderate volumes and is not all that clear. This is my first time with STAX and everything I have read says that my experience is not typical. The problem is that... well, I don't know where the problem is.
> 
> It is hooked up to my computer. The setup is an optical feed out of my computer into a Geshelli DAC into the STAX. I also feed a pair of self powered Genelac speakers which sound great so I think it is in the STAX setup but honestly, it could be a non optimal computer setting, cables, the amp or maybe the headphones need to be redone. I'm not sure. I'd love to start with trying a different set of headphones. Does any company allow you to try a set of STAX before buying? If a second set of cans is also bad, then I guess I've got to start moving downwire and look at replacing various components and variables to find the problem. They just sound too distorted not to think that I don't have a problem. I don't think I am listening to a proper STAX setup. I am in Northern Houston. Not sure if anyone knows a place in town that has some STAX cans to borrow or listen to? COVID complicates everything unfortunately.


Sounds like the 717 is broken somehow. You do have it grounded right? You aren't using a 2 prong cable are you?


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6

vitop said:


> Well, shoot....
> So it does seem to be either the amp or the headphones. Still very distorted sound.
> 
> I completely bypassed the DAC and the computer. I went directly from the RCA on the back of the CD player to the back of the amp. So I switched out the XLR cables too. It's not cables. It's either the amp or the headphones.
> ...


Where did you buy these from? If you used paypal you should be able to make a broken on arrival claim.


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## vitop

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> Sounds like the 717 is broken somehow. You do have it grounded right? You aren't using a 2 prong cable are you?


No, it is grounded with a three prong cable. I can't decide between the amp and the headphones. What makes you think it's the amp?


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6

vitop said:


> No, it is grounded with a three prong cable. I can't decide between the amp and the headphones. What makes you think it's the amp?


Different amounts of distortion at different volumes sounds more like a problem with the driver unit. Usually the earspeakers themselves either work completely or not at all. Just from my personal experience. Other than a little chanel imbalance on the left or right side. Which is why stax driver units have a balance control.


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## vitop

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> Different amounts of distortion at different volumes sounds more like a problem with the driver unit. Usually the earspeakers themselves either work completely or not at all. Just from my personal experience. Other than a little chanel imbalance on the left or right side. Which is why stax driver units have a balance control.


ok, I guess that makes sense. I appreciate that. My thought on it was that if there was something wrong with the diaphragm, that it would distort more as more current was put through it and the current demanded more movement of the diaphragm


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## vitop

I have no idea which of the two it is, but if it is the amp, I could probably recap myself. has anyone made a list of the caps needed to recap a complete 717? Or maybe even upgrade the caps? Does anyone do that service along with maybe mods to make it better? I would assume anyone that does that service can for sure tell if it is working properly. Heck, all you really need is set of headphones and if this distortion is being caused by the amp, you can tell right away.


----------



## chocolates

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> Different amounts of distortion at different volumes sounds more like a problem with the driver unit. Usually the earspeakers themselves either work completely or not at all. Just from my personal experience. Other than a little chanel imbalance on the left or right side. Which is why stax driver units have a balance control.


seconding this

you might be able to ask around on head-case, but i wager you could start by just checking the rated voltage and capacitance and matching from there. i think if you search around you can find what people have suggested in the past for other stax amps, like nichicons and such - should be fine even if they're not recommended specifically for the 717. good luck!

also yeah, if you bought this via paypal goods and services you should be covered by buyer protection - this seems worth filing a case for if the problems weren't described in the listing


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## 118900

vitop said:


> I have no idea which of the two it is, but if it is the amp, I could probably recap myself. has anyone made a list of the caps needed to recap a complete 717? Or maybe even upgrade the caps? Does anyone do that service along with maybe mods to make it better? I would assume anyone that does that service can for sure tell if it is working properly. Heck, all you really need is set of headphones and if this distortion is being caused by the amp, you can tell right away.


If you have experience/capability you could try checking the amp and re-caping it. I just had a 717 arrive completely recapped and upgraded and it’s the business even with 007s so if nothing else if you have the ability try opening up the 717 and at least running a diagnostic check on it. Can’t hurt and might even solve your problem


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## vitop

juansan said:


> If you have experience/capability you could try checking the amp and re-caping it. I just had a 717 arrive completely recapped and upgraded and it’s the business even with 007s so if nothing else if you have the ability try opening up the 717 and at least running a diagnostic check on it. Can’t hurt and might even solve your problem


I think I can recap it because I can solder, but in terms of any real troubleshooting, no... I am not capable of that unless I have a step by step.


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## CH23

Hey all,

Since I had 2 pairs of sr-001 mkII, and one pair had a broken cable, I decided to get myself an sr-003 mkII cable instead, to use with full-size energisers.

It's a world of difference! the soundstage increases dramatically, it feels like they got more 'oomph', and have definitely upgraded from 'nice IEMs' to 'very good headphones, period.' I should also mention that I use the ET-A1 ear tips, which makes them super comfortable (at the moment i've worn them 12 hours straight)

I have 2 setups where I run them on, namely my Teac UD-501 > ED-1 pro > srm323s, and for the bedroom FiiO M11 pro > SRD-X pro 

Apart from that i've also acquired a second Lambda pro, which might be my favourite stax of the ones i have, and have tried. SR-507 being a close second.

My SR-Sigma pro has not been in use, ever really. I get why people like it, but I much rather prefer the directness of the lambdas.


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## 118900 (Dec 20, 2020)

vitop said:


> I think I can recap it because I can solder, but in terms of any real troubleshooting, no... I am not capable of that unless I have a step by step.


Can I suggest you write to @spritzer at mjolnir-audio? He may be able to help although I cannot speak for him or on his behalf. Either way try him, he’s a top rate guy and very very honest and upfront.


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## Aurosonic

I finally got my chance to compare the SRM-717 with a KGSSHV driving a pair of SR-007 MK1's. These are very initial impressions.

I recently acquired a pair of MK1's and have been driving them with the SRM-717 over the past week. This combination sounds quite nice, and if I didn't know any better I would be very happy with it. However, my new KGSSHV just walked in the door, and within the first 5 minutes of listening I noticed a huge improvement. In comparison, the bass from the 717 sounds fat, bloated, and muddy with a lot of bloom. The KGSSHV has better control of the lower frequencies, revealing much greater texture and resolution. The 717 makes the bass sound like a note. The KGSSHV trims the fat so to speak, allowing you to hear the actual instrument. Soundstage is also wider displaying greater separation and imaging. Overall sound is wider, more airy, more detailed while further improving the great impact and extension of the bass. Cliche as it may be, it sounds like a veil has been lifted. I now understand why the SR-007's have a reputation for sounding dark--they absolutely do with lesser amplification.

I noticed all of this almost immediately. I look forward to a proper session where I'm sure I will discover even greater improvements. Considering the SRM-717 is widely regarded as the best SS amp Stax ever made, and it leaves that much on the table, is staggering.


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## vitop

juansan said:


> Can I suggest you write to @spritzer at mjolnir-audio? He may be able to help although I cannot speak for him or on his behalf. Either way try him, he’s a top rate guy and very very honest and upfront.


Yes, thank you for the suggestion. He had sold me that he only repairs his own units so he was not able to help.


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## 118900

vitop said:


> Yes, thank you for the suggestion. He had sold me that he only repairs his own units so he was not able to help.


Could you take it somewhere that does repairs like a small specialist store and get them to check the amp out completely and replace anything faulty?


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

Aurosonic said:


> I finally got my chance to compare the SRM-717 with a KGSSHV driving a pair of SR-007 MK1's. These are very initial impressions.
> 
> I recently acquired a pair of MK1's and have been driving them with the SRM-717 over the past week. This combination sounds quite nice, and if I didn't know any better I would be very happy with it. However, my new KGSSHV just walked in the door, and within the first 5 minutes of listening I noticed a huge improvement. In comparison, the bass from the 717 sounds fat, bloated, and muddy with a lot of bloom. The KGSSHV has better control of the lower frequencies, revealing much greater texture and resolution. The 717 makes the bass sound like a note. The KGSSHV trims the fat so to speak, allowing you to hear the actual instrument. Soundstage is also wider displaying greater separation and imaging. Overall sound is wider, more airy, more detailed while further improving the great impact and extension of the bass. Cliche as it may be, it sounds like a veil has been lifted. I now understand why the SR-007's have a reputation for sounding dark--they absolutely do with lesser amplification.
> 
> I noticed all of this almost immediately. I look forward to a proper session where I'm sure I will discover even greater improvements. Considering the SRM-717 is widely regarded as the best SS amp Stax ever made, and it leaves that much on the table, is staggering.


The 007s are quite hard to drive. To be honest I usually just tell 007 owners to get a nice little speaker amp with a standalone energizer rather than spending the big bucks on a KGSSHV or BHSE but if you can afford it then both of them are quite good. Lambdas simply don't need as much juice as Omegas. Stax's Driver units are designed for Lambdas primarily. Which is why their in house solutions have never cut it for the 007.


----------



## chocolates

Aurosonic said:


> I finally got my chance to compare the SRM-717 with a KGSSHV driving a pair of SR-007 MK1's. These are very initial impressions.
> 
> I recently acquired a pair of MK1's and have been driving them with the SRM-717 over the past week. This combination sounds quite nice, and if I didn't know any better I would be very happy with it. However, my new KGSSHV just walked in the door, and within the first 5 minutes of listening I noticed a huge improvement. In comparison, the bass from the 717 sounds fat, bloated, and muddy with a lot of bloom. The KGSSHV has better control of the lower frequencies, revealing much greater texture and resolution. The 717 makes the bass sound like a note. The KGSSHV trims the fat so to speak, allowing you to hear the actual instrument. Soundstage is also wider displaying greater separation and imaging. Overall sound is wider, more airy, more detailed while further improving the great impact and extension of the bass. Cliche as it may be, it sounds like a veil has been lifted. I now understand why the SR-007's have a reputation for sounding dark--they absolutely do with lesser amplification.
> 
> I noticed all of this almost immediately. I look forward to a proper session where I'm sure I will discover even greater improvements. Considering the SRM-717 is widely regarded as the best SS amp Stax ever made, and it leaves that much on the table, is staggering.


yeah, the lower power the amp the bigger the difference. SRM-252S makes them sound super dark, with no subbass or treble extension - though the mids don't seem that bad honestly

it's pretty interesting to be honest, since i'm not one to claim huge differences between say regular headphone SS amps, but stax omega is a different beast altogether


----------



## intlsubband

juansan said:


> On his website he has a kgsshv (under used and one off Amps) that he purchased and modified (as it was apparently out of spec) and it runs at 450 volts



Not anymore


----------



## vitop

I had a chance to take a look at the caps in my 717 and take some pics. I have a couple of observations. On three of the 4 large caps, I can feel that the tops are curved just a little. It is slight and does not show on the pics. I suppose that means they are bad if they have any rise to them at all. I am not sure of how much of a difference it makes if they are just a little curved.

I did not see any of the other small caps on the main board as being bad. I did see some staining on the board that looks like oxidation to me. It does not come off and I am assuming it is a multi-layered board and so there could be damage to the board and the circuit. Not sure how or where to check that though. I am wondering if the board is ok or not though. 

As far as the two side boards, one of the caps on each board does look domed. These two seem to be the worst of the bad caps.

The unit does seem to be set up for 117V from what I could see on some of the posts.


----------



## 118900

intlsubband said:


> Not anymore


nice one !


----------



## Tarttett

Hi.

Would somebody within this thread possibly be able to suggest to me a potentiometer that could be used for a replacement for the SRM-T1?


----------



## vitop

Is there anyone on this list that is in Northern Houston that has a working STAX amp that would be open to listening to my headphones to see if they are working properly. They need a PRO socket.

Thanks


----------



## kzs70

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> To be honest I usually just tell 007 owners to get a nice little speaker amp with a standalone energizer rather than spending the big bucks on a KGSSHV or BHSE but if you can afford it then both of them are quite good.



Hello,
Could you please let me more details about a "speaker amp with a standalone energizer" setup? How does it works and which energizer and speaker amp combo is recommended?

I have been reading this forum for a while but this is the first time I see this recommendation.
I recently bought my first Stax 009 together with a 727II amp. Based on what I hear and read on these forums my amp is the weak link in my chain.
I am thinkin about buying a KGSSHV Carbon amp in the future but it is too expensive for me right now....so if there is any other option which might sound better than a 727II I would be very interested...

Thanks,
Zsolt


----------



## 118900

kzs70 said:


> Hello,
> Could you please let me more details about a "speaker amp with a standalone energizer" setup? How does it works and which energizer and speaker amp combo is recommended?
> 
> I have been reading this forum for a while but this is the first time I see this recommendation.
> ...


Check mjolnir audio. @spritzer has some amps he has reconditioned and modified at much lower prices than his kgsshv’s and is an honest and upfront guy. It’s where I bought mine (for the same reason as you, saving for the carbon).


----------



## daytrader

kzs70 said:


> Hello,
> Could you please let me more details about a "speaker amp with a standalone energizer" setup? How does it works and which energizer and speaker amp combo is recommended?
> 
> I have been reading this forum for a while but this is the first time I see this recommendation.
> ...


If you are not happy with the Stax 727II, then you will pay $ way up for an improvement.  The 009s are not a difficult drive.  Lucky you don’t have the 007s!


----------



## kzs70

juansan said:


> Check mjolnir audio. @spritzer has some amps he has reconditioned and modified at much lower prices than his kgsshv’s and is an honest and upfront guy. It’s where I bought mine (for the same reason as you, saving for the carbon).


Thanks, I have already talked to him. As I have the feedback modded 727 he recommended the Carbon as a significant upgrade, so I am saving for that too


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## daytrader

kzs70 said:


> Thanks, I have already talked to him. As I have the feedback modded 727 he recommended the Carbon as a significant upgrade, so I am saving for that too


Like I said, pay $ way up!  The Carbon is a significant improvement.


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## kzs70 (Dec 22, 2020)

daytrader said:


> If you are not happy with the Stax 727II, then you will pay $ way up for an improvement.  The 009s are not a difficult drive.  Lucky you don’t have the 007s!


Yes, it seems the next upgrade from the 727II will be more expensive.
But I know that the Stax 009 deserves a better amp. I have gone through the same process with my ML Montis speakers too, until I got a decent amp (Aesthetix Atlas Eclipse) I did not hear their full potential.


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## 118900 (Dec 22, 2020)

daytrader said:


> Like I said, pay $ way up!  The Carbon is a significant improvement.


True but I am driving my 007 with a modified 717 (from Mjolnir Audio) and I can guarantee that as it stands it is a significant improvement (to my ears) over my Audeze LCD-4z driven direct from the Chord Hugo2.

I originally bought the set up to sit alongside my Audeze so as to have an electrostat sound when I wanted it, having owned a Stax system in the past and also using the Shure KSE 1200's in-ears as my travelling set I always thought it would be a secondary home system to the Audeze......... one week later I sold the Audeze's, hand down, no questions asked! to me the 007/717 combo is really in another league.

I will eventually upgrade to a Carbon or whatever replaces it or is an upgrade from it in future, but for now Im honesty in a very sweet place.


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## 118900 (Dec 22, 2020)

kzs70 said:


> Thanks, I have already talked to him. As I have the feedback modded 727 he recommended the Carbon as a significant upgrade, so I am saving for that too


Given what he said (which is the same thing he told me when I bought my modified 717 from him) I would suggest that you don’t "waste" money on any interim steps then, you probably won't appreciate any difference, just go straight for the Carbon when the right time comes.

Personally I am very very happy with my set-up and end game plan is eventually replace the 717 straight with a Carbon or whatever is TOTL at the time.


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## kzs70

juansan said:


> Given what he said (which is the same thing he told me when I bought my modified 717 from him) I would suggest that you don’t "waste" money on any interim steps then, you probably won't appreciate any difference, just go straight for the Carbon when the right time comes.
> 
> Personally I am very very happy with my set-up and end game plan is eventually replace the 717 straight with a Carbon or whatever is TOTL at the time.


Yes, I have come to the same conclusion....hopefully it will happen sometime next year


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6 (Dec 22, 2020)

CH23 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Since I had 2 pairs of sr-001 mkII, and one pair had a broken cable, I decided to get myself an sr-003 mkII cable instead, to use with full-size energisers.
> 
> ...



I'm glad that you're enjoying your 001s. You should let me take those Sigmas off of your hands. 


Tarttett said:


> Hi.
> 
> Would somebody within this thread possibly be able to suggest to me a potentiometer that could be used for a replacement for the SRM-T1?


The T1 uses an Alps 50K ohm pot. Rk27 I believe? You can find them pretty easily online. 



kzs70 said:


> Hello,
> Could you please let me more details about a "speaker amp with a standalone energizer" setup? How does it works and which energizer and speaker amp combo is recommended?
> 
> I have been reading this forum for a while but this is the first time I see this recommendation.
> ...


A used Stax srd-7 mk.2, or a new Woo Audio Wee, with a quality apeaker amp of your choice. There have been some complaints about Woo Audio not using ballast resistors in their designs which may damage your drivers over a long period of time. I don't know anyone personally who has damaged their Stax because of that though. If you ever see a Stax srd-7 mk.2 on the used market jump on it.


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6 (Dec 22, 2020)

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> I'm glad that you're enjoying your 001s. You should let me take those Sigmas off of your hands.
> 
> The T1 uses an Alps 50K ohm pot. Rk27 I believe? You can find them pretty easily online.
> 
> ...


Wait, not an rk 27. Stax uses a custom alps 50K ohm because it has to be dual-concentric.


----------



## chocolates

do people here prefer the mk1 or mk2 lambda headbands? (the one that comes with the L500/L700)

i want to get a bigger headband for my L300 but not really too keen on buying an entirely new lambda for it


----------



## kzs70 (Dec 23, 2020)

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> A used Stax srd-7 mk.2, or a new Woo Audio Wee, with a quality apeaker amp of your choice. There have been some complaints about Woo Audio not using ballast resistors in their designs which may damage your drivers over a long period of time. I don't know anyone personally who has damaged their Stax because of that though. If you ever see a Stax srd-7 mk.2 on the used market jump on it.



Thanks! And how would you compare this setup to the 727II/009 and the Carbon/009, using with your "best" speaker amp?


----------



## elton7033

kzs70 said:


> Thanks! And how would you compare this setup to the 727II/009 and the Carbon/009, using with your "best" speaker amp?


The 727A and Carbon with 009 is at total different level, i havent been using my 727 for years because i got my kgsshv but the kgsshv Carbon is just that much better than the normal hv


----------



## kzs70

elton7033 said:


> The 727A and Carbon with 009 is at total different level, i havent been using my 727 for years because i got my kgsshv but the kgsshv Carbon is just that much better than the normal hv


Thanks for your reply, I can't wait to try a Carbon, hopefuly sooner then later...


----------



## Aurosonic

I do agree that if the Carbon or BHSE are the ultimate goal, it may make sense to just save up and go straight to the top. However, one should not discredit the "stepping stone" amps like a KGSS or KGSSHV.

At around $2000, a used KGSSHV is 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of the Carbon or BHSE. For someone who can't justify spending $4000-$6000 on an amp, the KGSS or KGSSHV can indeed be end-game.


----------



## JLoud

I went from a 353x to BHSE. Skipped all the steps in between. Glad I did. Very happy with the BHSE, and feel it will meet the needs of any future headphones I may purchase.


----------



## 118900

Aurosonic said:


> I do agree that if the Carbon or BHSE are the ultimate goal, it may make sense to just save up and go straight to the top. However, one should not discredit the "stepping stone" amps like a KGSS or KGSSHV.
> 
> At around $2000, a used KGSSHV is 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of the Carbon or BHSE. For someone who can't justify spending $4000-$6000 on an amp, the KGSS or KGSSHV can indeed be end-game.


True but also depends what you are using now. When I asked Birgir at mjolnir audio for support in choosing a suitable amp he told me that the modifications he made to the 717 he sold me put it on a par with the kgsshv and to upgrade I would have to go for a carbon. Honestly it sounds so good I am happy to wait and go straight to the carbon when the time comes.


----------



## Mach3

I can concur that it has been mentioned by KG and Spritzer that the 717 is pretty much a commerical KGSS. But the KGSS is a cost no object 717 with better components and a proper regulated power supply. The HV further improves on the KGSS with current delivery and control. Knowing Spritzer he would have recapped all the capacitor and did other tweaks so the effect of the better regulated power supply would be a lot less noticed.


----------



## bigjako

Since there's been so much discussion lately about the KGSSHV vs the KGSSHV Carbon, and the general consensus is that there's a huge leap between the two but I'm hoping to hear a little bit more about the differences between them.  Is it just a mater of "more" or is there qualitative differences as well?  I use an L300 LE, not a 007 or 009 (at least for the foreseeable future) and am considering getting a KGSSHV.  I'm not a 'money's no object' kinda guy, and am more focused on bang for my buck - so the question is really what am I giving up by spending $1k less for a KGSSHV vs a Carbon (I am going by recent used sales, I understand the retail delta is much greater).  

I have an SRM-T1S bought from Japan that is giving off lemon vibes to me (twice had to take it in for repairs in the last month) and I'm coming into a work bonus next month so am seriously considering my options now.  I think $6k on an amp is a bridge too far but $1800-2800 seems reasonable to me (last year I could not have comprehended that statement).


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## Aurosonic (Dec 23, 2020)

If the price delta between the HV and Carbon were $1000, there's no question which one I would choose. I bought my HV (full sized Sanyo version) for $1900, and the lowest price I have seen recently for a Carbon is $3600. To some that's a drop in the bucket, but it's still nearly a 100% jump in price. As I said before, if the ultimate goal is to get the Carbon, there's merit to just wait and save up.

I haven't compared a HV with a Carbon, but given the topology and components used I'd expect everything is taken up a notch (or two). Supposedly it has the widest soundstage and the best bass performance of any amp (except maybe the T2).

FWIW, there was/is a BHSE posted recently for $4200. That's personally the route I would go. Tubes just have that special magic absent in SS, plus you can roll tubes to change the sound, plus it's just plain eye porn.


----------



## chocolates

i'm currently saving up for a BHSE, mostly because of the eye porn


----------



## 118900

Mach3 said:


> I can concur that it has been mentioned by KG and Spritzer that the 717 is pretty much a commerical KGSS. But the KGSS is a cost no object 717 with better components and a proper regulated power supply. The HV further improves on the KGSS with current delivery and control. Knowing Spritzer he would have recapped all the capacitor and did other tweaks so the effect of the better regulated power supply would be a lot less noticed.


I can concur (as I have written elsewhere) that my 007/modded717 combo totally outclassed the Audeze lcd-4z driven straight from my (then) chord hugo2 DAC (upgraded to the HTT2 as of yesterday evening 🤩).
If the carbon beats this then it will be my end game


----------



## Mach3

There still non -believer out their that still think their planar/dynamic is a better setup and argue that the cost of the electrostatic setup is not worth the financial trouble/headache.
Not true, I still think a 007 with a decent energizer like the KGSSHV or carbon is same if not cheaper than a crazy setup like cheap fi man Susvara and amp combo.


----------



## 118900

Mach3 said:


> There still non -believer out their that still think their planar/dynamic is a better setup and argue that the cost of the electrostatic setup is not worth the financial trouble/headache.
> Not true, I still think a 007 with a decent energizer like the KGSSHV or carbon is same if not cheaper than a crazy setup like cheap fi man Susvara and amp combo.


I don’t know what the top end planars from hifiman or abyss etc are capable of but I can assuredly tell you that in terms of detail retrieval and mid/high frequency transparency my current set up is leagues ahead of what I had before with easily comparable low frequency extension and quality (which is what planars are purportedly famous for) for the same price (but  admittedly much lower portability). And that is also considering that there is an added amp between the DAC and the headphones themselves.

I had an electrostatic system before which for a number of reasons was gathering dust and I traded that in for the Audeze’s as this allowed me transportability but I knew something was missing when I later bought a Shure KSE 1200 as a high end portable system for travelling abroad and ended up listening to it at home over the Audeze’s even with the limitations the IEMs had compared to the circumaural open backed design of the Audeze’s.


----------



## elton7033

JLoud said:


> I went from a 353x to BHSE. Skipped all the steps in between. Glad I did. Very happy with the BHSE, and feel it will meet the needs of any future headphones I may purchase.


you now need the carbon to complete your collection with your bhse lol


----------



## elton7033 (Dec 24, 2020)

Mach3 said:


> There still non -believer out their that still think their planar/dynamic is a better setup and argue that the cost of the electrostatic setup is not worth the financial trouble/headache.
> Not true, I still think a 007 with a decent energizer like the KGSSHV or carbon is same if not cheaper than a crazy setup like cheap fi man Susvara and amp combo.


cant agree more than that, infect their fonder told currawong that their headphone need to be expensive in order to be applicate lol
A Stax L300 Limited + amp doesn't need to be expensive but it can fight on any top tier hifiman cans and still be about 1000usd less
and I believe normal people will prefer good stuff at affordable price rather than decent stuff being expensive.


----------



## Aurosonic

Electrostats have been denigrated for their high cost. However, it has also become commonplace to see $4000+ dynamic and planar headphones. Prices on the SR-009 have dropped ($3700 vs $5000 at release), and the SR-007 can be had for around $1500. The cost of electrostatic amplification is generally higher, but there are options around $2000 that sound lovely.


----------



## elton7033 (Dec 24, 2020)

Aurosonic said:


> Electrostats have been denigrated for their high cost. However, it has also become commonplace to see $4000+ dynamic and planar headphones. Prices on the SR-009 have dropped ($3700 vs $5000 at release), and the SR-007 can be had for around $1500. The cost of electrostatic amplification is generally higher, but there are options around $2000 that sound lovely.


oh god, I am stupid enough to pay 5000usd back in 2013 to buy my SR009 but at least I still use it today and i guess it worth every dollar lol
but my goto electrostatic is now the 007Mk1...

Is good to see edifier capital now allow Stax to lower the price of SR009 and make the launch price of SR009S cheaper than the original SR009. where Stax does not need to fear of bankruptcy again because of their high-end product development.
Infect the SR009 was never plan to be a production headphone, its call the C32 prototype back in 2009. The C32 first appear in fujiya avic headphone festival 2009 as a concept headphone to show case what Stax are truly capable of by developing MLER to celebrate 50years of SR headphone, but they have no plan to release due to the high cost(they mention 5 to 10times the cost of normal Stax headphone and even007 on the video as well) . But due to the prompt feedback from the Japanese audiophile community they at last decided to do their last bet, pricing it at somewhere around 300000-500000yen which left them not much profit for their company because of their size. This led to the SR009 being so hard to find in japan at least until fall 2014, you are lucky back then if you see a pair in stock. I wonder how other C headphone look like though.

⇓Stax C32 video back in 2010⇓


----------



## arnaud

elton7033 said:


> Infect the SR009 was never plan to be a production headphone, its call the C32 prototype back in 2009.



I can’t imagine this is true but maybe some hearsay originated outside stax. You don’t develop a new electrode, housing and pad system, present it to the press and stop it there because you don’t have a product name lol.  I’ve never ever heard this story before, we did an interview at stax HQ back in 2012, including the chief engineer in the video you linked and were never told this.

imo, this video was a pre-release teaser, a marketing exercise to let people know something was coming and that it was a price class above the flagship at the time. The video justifies the added cost from machining many parts, developping a new electrode that’s both rigid but still provides the least amount of acoustic resistance, refers to its manufacturing process to fuse 3 cart parts etc.

I can certainly imagine Stax being concerned about how the market would react to this, e.g., the pricing would be way above the omega. To put things in perspective, leaving aside the orpheus, expensive at the time meant 1500 usd HD800, not the 4-6kUSD planars and other flagships that would follow suit after the success of the SR009.

I guess Stax lead the way for this new pricing tier, be it good or bad for us overall. I tend to see it as a positive because that made large players like Focal pay attention and deliver excellent product like the Utopia afterwards but also feel the irony of the situation where there’s now a better bang for buck to have in speakers these days with direct sell companies who rely on internet buzz and don’t need to spend big efforts to develop whole new drivers etc.

My personal wild guess is that we’ve reached the limits of what most audiophiles will accept to pay for headphones and, without clear standout on the SQ / comfort etc, the next step is to bring that pricing down to win over more customers.

 happy holidays everyone!

arnaud


----------



## elton7033 (Dec 25, 2020)

arnaud said:


> I can’t imagine this is true but maybe some hearsay originated outside stax. You don’t develop a new electrode, housing and pad system, present it to the press and stop it there because you don’t have a product name lol.  I’ve never ever heard this story before, we did an interview at stax HQ back in 2012, including the chief engineer in the video you linked and were never told this.
> 
> imo, this video was a pre-release teaser, a marketing exercise to let people know something was coming and that it was a price class above the flagship at the time. The video justifies the added cost from machining many parts, developping a new electrode that’s both rigid but still provides the least amount of acoustic resistance, refers to its manufacturing process to fuse 3 cart parts etc.
> 
> ...


that maybe true, that might be marketing but when i personally saw it back in 2010 fujiya show i was shock with the SQ of the C32, at that time I though the HD800 was the absolute benchmark for headphone SQ, i know is off topic but back then i will not believe 10years later HD800 is just another headphone and sells badly on the second hand market.
I guess different people believe in different stuff, edifer didn't bought Stax back in 2009 so i wont be surprise if they don't have the resource to mass produce SR009, and is true that I have been looking for a pair of new SR009 in Tokyo since 2012 and finally got it in 2013 somewhere near Akihabara and i buy it instant without even think twice. Such a good memory.
even in Jude video of the SR009S/T8000 he mentioned with edifier capital, Stax are now allow to do more and improve things like the chassis of their amp. So I totally convince that is edifier which helps to bring down SR009 manufacturing cost.


----------



## arnaud

elton7033 said:


> that maybe true, that might be marketing but when i personally saw it back in 2010 fujiya show i was shock with the SQ of the C32, at that time I though the HD800 was the absolute benchmark for headphone SQ, i know is off topic but back then i will not believe 10years later HD800 is just another headphone and sells badly on the second hand market.
> I guess different people believe in different stuff, edifer didn't bought Stax back in 2009 so i wont be surprise if they have the resource to mass produce SR009, and is true that I have been looking for a pair of new SR009 in Tokyo since 2012 and finally got it in 2013 somewhere near Akihabara and i buy it instant without even think twice. Such a good memory.
> even in Jude video of the SR009S/T8000 he mentioned with edifier capital, Stax are now allow to do more and improve things like the chassis of their amp. So I totally convince that is edifier which helps to bring down SR009 manufacturing cost.



My opinion again, no numbers whatsoever to back it up but, I certainly hope it's not Edifier who asked Stax to jack up their prices for the products that came after the 009. I recall the 009S was ~30% more expensive than what I paid for the 009 at launch and basically face severe competition. I recall some of this was to alleviate a bit the issue with price distortion between Japan and US / EU markets and I would not be surprised sales in Japan haven't been that good in past couple of years, forcing a price adjustment.

arnaud


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## elton7033 (Dec 25, 2020)

arnaud said:


> My opinion again, no numbers whatsoever to back it up but, I certainly hope it's not Edifier who asked Stax to jack up their prices for the products that came after the 009. I recall the 009S was ~30% more expensive than what I paid for the 009 at launch and basically face severe competition. I recall some of this was to alleviate a bit the issue with price distortion between Japan and US / EU markets and I would not be surprised sales in Japan haven't been that good in past couple of years, forcing a price adjustment.
> 
> arnaud


the msrp for the SR009 in us market have started at 5200usd back when it launch, the 009S is 4325usd now. in japan I recall buying my pair a bit more expensive than the msrp in tereon around 400000yen I think, but I need to double check if I still have the receipt after so many year, however, the price for SR009 in japan after the msrp being change have been very stable for the last 2 years. I agree there are a different between US and JP market price and this should not have been happened, even focal utopia are same price everywhere. This proof until today Stax are still in their 70s business mind when comes to controlling authorized retailer. 




I totally agree on the recent new product are overprice especially with what the are delivering in terms of the SQ and with the price they are asking for. Their T8000 I was expecting something at least like a  KGST...not a improved 727 with modern tube output stage and empty slot on the back panel which until now no info what so ever its for lol


----------



## chocolates

not many reviews on the t8000, but it sure looks good at least


----------



## catscratch

Looking at a 2001 Stereophile review of the 007 with the 717 and 007t, they claim prices of $4030 for the headphones, $2875 for the 717, and $2945 for the 007t. I got into audio a few years after that and certainly don't remember what the prices were back then, but when you factor in inflation, aren't today's launch prices cheaper? Granted consumers probably have less purchasing power today and certainly in light of the pandemic, and obviously prices will fall over time, but a Stax flagship coming in at over $5k actually wouldn't be out of line considering inflation.

Not that I'm defending this. The value proposition of high-end headphones... is basically none. And given Stax's recent releases I'm kinda skeptical to begin with. I guess we'll see.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

Aurosonic said:


> If the price delta between the HV and Carbon were $1000, there's no question which one I would choose. I bought my HV (full sized Sanyo version) for $1900, and the lowest price I have seen recently for a Carbon is $3600. To some that's a drop in the bucket, but it's still nearly a 100% jump in price. As I said before, if the ultimate goal is to get the Carbon, there's merit to just wait and save up.
> 
> I haven't compared a HV with a Carbon, but given the topology and components used I'd expect everything is taken up a notch (or two). Supposedly it has the widest soundstage and the best bass performance of any amp (except maybe the T2).
> 
> FWIW, there was/is a BHSE posted recently for $4200. That's personally the route I would go. Tubes just have that special magic absent in SS, plus you can roll tubes to change the sound, plus it's just plain eye porn.


Mine? I sold it for about that much.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

The bottom line is that if you're an Omega guy you're going to need big power. So probably a specialty product like the BHSE or a speaker amp with an adapter. However, I would never reccomend that lambda guys spend that much on an amp because they just don't benefit from it. Lambdas need clean power but they don't need much power. If you're only ever going to listen to lambdas something like the Carbon is totally overkill in my honest opinion. One of the Stax driver units will be just fine. 

As for whether electrostatic setups are overpriced. I actually think that they're fairly priced for the level of performance that they give. A top of the line planar will run you about $3K and then you'll still need a hefty amplifier to run them on. I would much rather spend that amount of money on an estat setup that will have better clarity and detail retrieval.


----------



## chocolates

yep, totally agreed. according to some people susvara won't even sound proper out of anything less than a proper speaker amplifier, so that package together is about the same as brand new BHSE+SR009S


----------



## Aurosonic (Dec 27, 2020)

I implemented convolution equalization in Roon for my SR-007's with great results. For anyone that wants to try it out with their O2 MK1's, here's the link for the .wav files needed to do it. It's simple, free, and there's profiles for just about every headphone out there. This equalization attempts to tune headphone frequency response closer to a Harman target curve. Some people don't like this response, so it's not for everyone.

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Stax SR-007

With the filter in place the voicing is leaner. There's less mid-bass and vocals have slightly less body. Bass is just as deep and impactful. Soundstage is deeper and slightly wider. Centered instruments and vocals sound more distant. Overall sound is more neutral, spacious, and speaker-like. Without equalization is maybe more “fun” sounding with a warmer and more intimate presentation.

Overall I am quite impressed with the difference, and will continue using it. I have tried DSP in the past (crossfeed, parametric EQ, OOYH) and always reverted back to original, so I'm pleased to find something I actually like.


----------



## elton7033

Aurosonic said:


> If the price delta between the HV and Carbon were $1000, there's no question which one I would choose. I bought my HV (full sized Sanyo version) for $1900, and the lowest price I have seen recently for a Carbon is $3600. To some that's a drop in the bucket, but it's still nearly a 100% jump in price. As I said before, if the ultimate goal is to get the Carbon, there's merit to just wait and save up.
> 
> I haven't compared a HV with a Carbon, but given the topology and components used I'd expect everything is taken up a notch (or two). Supposedly it has the widest soundstage and the best bass performance of any amp (except maybe the T2).
> 
> FWIW, there was/is a BHSE posted recently for $4200. That's personally the route I would go. Tubes just have that special magic absent in SS, plus you can roll tubes to change the sound, plus it's just plain eye porn.



I used to have the KGSShv, Headamp BHSE and now the Mjölnir Audio KGSShv Carbon, both 3 amps are totally different beast, however, even the hv is a very good amp giving its speed and power, it did a great job with the 009(better than T8000) but BHSE is better with 007. 

The Carbon is better than the BHSE in terms of soundstage, bass, neutrality and resolution so its basically more monitor sound but the BHSE is coloured in a good way which can be more appealing to people who like smoothness where it retain a good balance between resolution and tube warmth. 

Although they share the same name the sound signature of the normal hv and Carbon is actually quite different as the SiC FET in carbon simulates tubes triodes operation where the normal hv uses a traditional SS output.


----------



## elton7033

chocolates said:


> not many reviews on the t8000, but it sure looks good at least


that's a thread in headcase.
https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/13002-stax-srm-t8000/
i tried it in KJ West one in London back in 2018 and I didn't like it as well. Its like a better version of the 727 with more bass and detail a bit more warmth with the tube final stage but that's all. For 4X the price of the 727 I rather get the woo audio WES if I really like rolling tube.


----------



## kzs70

Aurosonic said:


> I implemented convolution equalization in Roon for my SR-007's with great results. For anyone that wants to try it out with their O2 MK1's, here's the link for the .wav files needed to do it. It's simple, free, and there's profiles for just about every headphone out there. This equalization attempts to tune headphone frequency response closer to a Harman target curve. Some people don't like this response, so it's not for everyone.
> 
> https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Stax SR-007



Thanks for the link, I will try it with my SR-009.


----------



## Aurosonic

kzs70 said:


> Thanks for the link, I will try it with my SR-009.


You're welcome. Remember that link is for the SR-007 MK1 only, so you have to search for the appropriate SR-009 profile.


----------



## kzs70

Aurosonic said:


> You're welcome. Remember that link is for the SR-007 MK1 only, so you have to search for the appropriate SR-009 profile.


Yes I have found the one for the SR-009 too, will try it out later tonight


----------



## Aurosonic

kzs70 said:


> Yes I have found the one for the SR-009 too, will try it out later tonight


Be sure to post your impressions. I'm curious as to how the 009 will respond. I believe I like the results with the 007 because I have a rather warm sounding amp. Equalization made things more neutral. The 009 is already closer to neutral, so equalization may not suit it as well.


----------



## Aurosonic

elton7033 said:


> I used to have the KGSShv, Headamp BHSE and now the Mjölnir Audio KGSShv Carbon, both 3 amps are totally different beast, however, even the hv is a very good amp giving its speed and power, it did a great job with the 009(better than T8000) but BHSE is better with 007.
> 
> The Carbon is better than the BHSE in terms of soundstage, bass, neutrality and resolution so its basically more monitor sound but the BHSE is coloured in a good way which can be more appealing to people who like smoothness where it retain a good balance between resolution and tube warmth.
> 
> Although they share the same name the sound signature of the normal hv and Carbon is actually quite different as the SiC FET in carbon simulates tubes triodes operation where the normal hv uses a traditional SS output.


Thanks for the comparison. Both the Carbon and BHSE are amazing amps. My HV is perhaps too warm sounding for the SR-007, but it's enjoyable nontheless.


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## Tugbars (Dec 27, 2020)

@kzs70

https://www.dropbox.com/s/61srehjyaltd7w0/Stax SR-009S.pdf?dl=0
SR009S GRAS measurements and harman EQ presets

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g8qs38z47gsharg/Stax SR-009 (o7).pdf?dl=0
same for 009.

I must say that I don't agree with what Harman curve suggests for high treble and bass. That's okay, also it's noted on the document:

Adjust gain of band 1 to preference (subbass)
Adjust gain of band 2 to preference (bass) 
etc.You can adjust these presets until it fits to your taste.


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## kzs70

Tugbars said:


> @kzs70
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/g8qs38z47gsharg/Stax SR-009 (o7).pdf?dl=0
> same for 009.



Thanks!

I am entering these Parametric EQ settings into Roon now and have 2 questions:
Where do I input the preamp gain in Roon?
And what is the BW value in the last column of the filter settings table? Shall I input that value too?


----------



## Velomane

The preamp gain is a slider to the right of the graph. Can't help you with the BW value. However, if you're using Roon, I'd suggest building a convolution filter with the .wav files from here. Someone spoke about it a few pages back. I was running a parametric eq like what you're doing, but the convolution filter was an immediate improvment.


----------



## kzs70

Aurosonic said:


> Be sure to post your impressions. I'm curious as to how the 009 will respond. I believe I like the results with the 007 because I have a rather warm sounding amp. Equalization made things more neutral. The 009 is already closer to neutral, so equalization may not suit it as well.






Velomane said:


> The preamp gain is a slider to the right of the graph. Can't help you with the BW value. However, if you're using Roon, I'd suggest building a convolution filter with the .wav files from here. Someone spoke about it a few pages back. I was running a parametric eq like what you're doing, but the convolution filter was an immediate improvment.



Thanks, I have managed to set up boths methods. My first impression is the same, the convolution filter sounds quite good, however I need more time to compare them...


----------



## walakalulu

Here’s the thing. Just changed the power cord on the GG amp from an Atlas 4dd to a Shunyata Alpha NR v2. The differences were so obvious it could have been a different amp. Go figure....


----------



## elton7033

Cant believe is the last day of 2020...
anyway I got a question, does anybody know will plugging the 009 into an amp even if the amp is off will potential damage the headphone?
I recently done this experiment with both the 007 and 009, the 009 sounds slightly lower volume after 2 days plugging into the carbon. but recover after unplugging for like 2 hours, I suspect is something to do with build up electrostatic on driver? But the 007 have no problem what so ever at all...or may be my 009 is showing its age?


----------



## PointyFox

elton7033 said:


> Cant believe is the last day of 2020...
> anyway I got a question, does anybody know will plugging the 009 into an amp even if the amp is off will potential damage the headphone?
> I recently done this experiment with both the 007 and 009, the 009 sounds slightly lower volume after 2 days plugging into the carbon. but recover after unplugging for like 2 hours, I suspect is something to do with build up electrostatic on driver? But the 007 have no problem what so ever at all...or may be my 009 is showing its age?



That's how electrostatic headphones work unless I'm not reading this correctly?  Using them as intended shouldn't damage them.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

elton7033 said:


> Cant believe is the last day of 2020...
> anyway I got a question, does anybody know will plugging the 009 into an amp even if the amp is off will potential damage the headphone?
> I recently done this experiment with both the 007 and 009, the 009 sounds slightly lower volume after 2 days plugging into the carbon. but recover after unplugging for like 2 hours, I suspect is something to do with build up electrostatic on driver? But the 007 have no problem what so ever at all...or may be my 009 is showing its age?


You can leave stax plugged in permanently. There shouldn't be any problems whatsoever with plugging them into an off amp. Could you give us more details?


----------



## JLoud

I leave mine plugged in all the time. No issues.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

Happy New Year, Everyone.


----------



## chocolates

happy new year friends! あけおめ！


----------



## elton7033

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> You can leave stax plugged in permanently. There shouldn't be any problems whatsoever with plugging them into an off amp. Could you give us more details?


the 009 will sound a bit low volume with less high extension after plugging into the amp for 2days(power off) but will return to normal after unplug for a few hours, also i am worrying the frequent plug and unplug will damage the stax connector of the KGSShv Carbon amp because apparently the 007Omega2(Mk1) connector is thinner than the 009, unplug and plugging ther 009 might make the amp connector lose?


----------



## elton7033

chocolates said:


> happy new year friends! あけおめ！


あけおめ！



PointyFox said:


> That's how electrostatic headphones work unless I'm not reading this correctly?  Using them as intended shouldn't damage them.


nah I am talking about plugging the 009 on the amp forever even when the amp its off, seems like to my ear the diaphragm are building up something which makes it sound a bit different. but if i unplug for 2 hours and plug it back in everything is back to normal again... this only happen to the 009 buy not the 007Mk1


----------



## elton7033

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m458077681
↑found a beat up 007Mk1 for sale in yahoo japan quite cheap now. might be a good chance if anyone is looking for a pair. 1 and a half days left.


----------



## chocolates

elton7033 said:


> the 009 will sound a bit low volume with less high extension after plugging into the amp for 2days(power off) but will return to normal after unplug for a few hours, also i am worrying the frequent plug and unplug will damage the stax connector of the KGSShv Carbon amp because apparently the 007Omega2(Mk1) connector is thinner than the 009, unplug and plugging ther 009 might make the amp connector lose?



that's interesting  had no idea the connectors were different sizes

might keep an eye on that


----------



## Mach3

elton7033 said:


> https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m458077681
> ↑found a beat up 007Mk1 for sale in yahoo japan quite cheap now. might be a good chance if anyone is looking for a pair. 1 and a half days left.



Doesn't look beat up in the photo, actually looks better than most Mk1 that get sold on head fi or ebay.


----------



## astromaddie

Mach3 said:


> Doesn't look beat up in the photo, actually looks better than most Mk1 that get sold on head fi or ebay.


Also, given how Yahoo auctions works (most bidding activity happens as/after the auction was scheduled to end), I’m surprised it’s already had so much bidding activity, and don’t expect it to stay so cheap by the time the auction is over.


----------



## chocolates

looks similar condition to mine actually, though i should be getting new pads and headband in the next couple weeks


----------



## ye.

I have a SRM1/MK2, SN A86**, which sounds as if it could need repair.
The spectrum of a 1k-test tone has a lot of x*50Hz artefacts up to high frequency. Especially the right channel (blue) has 100Hz multiples in the region of 5000Hz which the left channel has not (see attachment).
A part of the x*50Hz artefacts could be due to the measurement setup, but not the difference between left and right channel.

First suspects would be the electrolytics. They were changed to high quality types many years ago and capacitance and ESR measure still fine (in circuit). Measuring the supply voltages I see a 700mV 100 Hz saw-tooth ripple at C008 is this normal?

Any other hints what I should check?
Thanks


----------



## BowWazoo

i have a question about sr009. is the 009 capable of delivering energetic, punchy bass if I adjusted it to the Harman curve?


----------



## Aurosonic

Recent Harman target curves call for boosting frequencies below 40 Hz by as much as 6 dB. Looking at the frequency response graph of the SR-009 before and after equalization, there is a bump in frequencies below 125 Hz. I would expect more amplified deep bass, but not neccessarily more punchy bass. The SR-009 is not a bass heavy headphone to begin with. Graph prepared by jaakkopasanen.


----------



## Moak

I had a L500....I have a SR-303 and a L700 MKII. 
Beautiful sound with the L700 but the ear pressure from the the left/right earcups is stronger than from both otherheadphones. I can‘t hear longer than one hour.
Has someone the same problem? Could I prepeare something on the headphone that it will be better?


----------



## sinefine

Hello,

Newcomer here.  I got an opened box SRM-D50 for and a new L700MK2. The left channel seems to have a faint buzzing/humming noise. Not noticeable when playing music but audible when nothing is playing. The noise is there without USB connection and when the amp is turned on. I left it on for an hour and it was hot to the touch and the noise was still there. I tried plugging the AC to different wall outlets and it didn't make a difference.

 Is this normal?


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

sinefine said:


> Hello,
> 
> Newcomer here.  I got an opened box SRM-D50 for and a new L700MK2. The left channel seems to have a faint buzzing/humming noise. Not noticeable when playing music but audible when nothing is playing. The noise is there without USB connection and when the amp is turned on. I left it on for an hour and it was hot to the touch and the noise was still there. I tried plugging the AC to different wall outlets and it didn't make a difference.
> 
> Is this normal?


No, absolutely not. Sounds like you got a broken D50.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

Monolaf said:


> I had a L500....I have a SR-303 and a L700 MKII.
> Beautiful sound with the L700 but the ear pressure from the the left/right earcups is stronger than from both otherheadphones. I can‘t hear longer than one hour.
> Has someone the same problem? Could I prepeare something on the headphone that it will be better?


Are you trying to say that the clamp is too tight? Not sure what you mean by "can't hear for longer than an hour."


----------



## elton7033

Monolaf said:


> I had a L500....I have a SR-303 and a L700 MKII.
> Beautiful sound with the L700 but the ear pressure from the the left/right earcups is stronger than from both otherheadphones. I can‘t hear longer than one hour.
> Has someone the same problem? Could I prepeare something on the headphone that it will be better?


may be 3rd party pads will help?


----------



## Deolum

Can anyone tell me which Stax would fit the best with my setup?

I use Lumin U1 Mini -> Metrum Pavane -> Audiovalve Solaris.

In other words my streamer is very good, my Dac is endgame and my amp should be around midrange?

The Solaris costs 4500 € while a BHSE costs 6000 $. The Solaris is an all in one device with dynamic headphone out + preamp + driving passive speakers + stax output whereas the BHSE is purely for Stax output. So it would be really weird if the Solaris would come close to those Amps purely dedicated to e-stats.

Which would be the best fitting Stax for this?

007 Mk I, 007 Mk II, 009, 009S?

Purely on harmonizing with the system. I know about the differences in sound signature.

Or are all around the same?


----------



## Tugbars (Jan 9, 2021)

Solaris isn't really a pure "electrostatic headphones" amplifier. It's a headphone amplifier with a transformer added after the output stage. Such setup can't be even comparable to BHSE.


----------



## Deolum

Why is it not comparable? Both drive e-stats and one does it most likely better than the other so it should be comparable.

Edit: Oh you're saying that the BHSE is miles better right? Yeah that's what i was assuming.


----------



## Velomane

sinefine said:


> Hello,
> 
> Newcomer here.  I got an opened box SRM-D50 for and a new L700MK2. The left channel seems to have a faint buzzing/humming noise. Not noticeable when playing music but audible when nothing is playing. The noise is there without USB connection and when the amp is turned on. I left it on for an hour and it was hot to the touch and the noise was still there. I tried plugging the AC to different wall outlets and it didn't make a difference.
> 
> Is this normal?



Try unplugging the headphones and touching its pins with your finger. Shorting them out this way worked for my 009S' when the left ear started making noise as you described.


----------



## chocolates

Deolum said:


> Why is it not comparable? Both drive e-stats and one does it most likely better than the other so it should be comparable.
> 
> Edit: Oh you're saying that the BHSE is miles better right? Yeah that's what i was assuming.



i may be wrong, but it looks like the solaris has a normal bias output? that definitely won't be enough to power any of the omegas (5 pin pro bias vs 6 pin normal bias)


----------



## timb5881

chocolates said:


> i may be wrong, but it looks like the solaris has a normal bias output? that definitely won't be enough to power any of the omegas (5 pin pro bias vs 6 pin normal bias)


It does look like a normal bias socket, but the specs say it is a 480 v.   Sopunds to me like a person with a normal bias Stax will fry it.


----------



## chocolates

that's kind of concerning...


----------



## elton7033 (Jan 10, 2021)

Deolum said:


> Why is it not comparable? Both drive e-stats and one does it most likely better than the other so it should be comparable.
> 
> Edit: Oh you're saying that the BHSE is miles better right? Yeah that's what i was assuming.


I only a few electrostatic amp through out the past 10years
but sadly there are only a few amp in the market can compare with the BHSE eg: KGSShv Carbon/ Woo WES/ T2
Not even the new stax flagship T8000 come anywhere close in my opinion.
Never tried the Solaris with e-stats but I had tried it with Utopia, but its a very decent amp. I am just assuming it shouldn't be worst than the 727 so I guess with something like a SR009/S will be better since its much less amp dependent compare to the SR007Mk1/Mk2/A/Mk2.9 as the only thing that's make me worry is the high voltage on a normal bias socket as mentioned above by fellow headfier.


----------



## elton7033

Velomane said:


> Try unplugging the headphones and touching its pins with your finger. Shorting them out this way worked for my 009S' when the left ear started making noise as you described.


I do that sometimes as well, when my 009 start to sound a bit low volume when continues plug into my KGSShv Carbon for 3days and it return to normal instantly, I think it just discharge all build up electrostatic on the driver...correct me if I am doing something wrong.


----------



## DesignTaylor

Hey there, I've been following this thread for a little bit, seems like there are some very knowledgeable contributors. 

I got into electrostatics pretty recently after being a hardcore speaker and headphone guy. I've owned a bunch of HP gear... dynamic and planar, open and closed, various brands, solid-state and tube amps, various DACs, etc. but estats are a whole new ball game. 

A few pages back there was a discussion about value perception and how the audio community perceives STAX which I found pretty interesting as I have started dipping my toe into the electrostatic waters. 

My initial impression after purchasing my first set up (L300 LTD w/ L700 pads/band + stock SRM-T1) is extremely positive. I came to electrostatics a bit skeptical as from the outside they seemed expensive and complex but what I've heard so far is very rewarding. Now I've only gotten to sample one set up so my experience with STAX is very limited, but my impression is not that they are outright better or worse than dynamics or planners but simply that they are different. There are some things that they obviously excel at and other attributes which I prefer one of my other setups for. What is clear to me is that they offer a new expression and differentiated presentation from anything else I've listened to and that's trilling.

I think the question of cost is interesting. My initial sense is that the price is actually pretty comparable to planar or dynamic setups that offer a similar level of performance. Since my current STAX setup is about half the cost of my best planar or dynamic setup I've been motivated to see what's possible if I level the playing field. My plan is to sell some of my existing gear to afford a better set of electrostatic components. 

I'll likely be going with a modded STAX unit from Mjolnir as it seems to offer the best bang for my buck. I'm on the fence about which ear speaker to go for. I tend to appreciate a warmer presentation so the s007 seems appropriate but I'm also super curious about the ES-1a as the reviews I've read suggest that it might better balance fullness and detail, sort of in between the 007 and 009.

Feedback and input welcome!


----------



## elton7033

DesignTaylor said:


> Hey there, I've been following this thread for a little bit, seems like there are some very knowledgeable contributors.
> 
> I got into electrostatics pretty recently after being a hardcore speaker and headphone guy. I've owned a bunch of HP gear... dynamic and planar, open and closed, various brands, solid-state and tube amps, various DACs, etc. but estats are a whole new ball game.
> 
> ...


The 009 is more detail than the 007, the 007 are more detail than the es1a, but the original omega is even a hair more detail than the 009.


----------



## DesignTaylor

Thanks! Which would you describe as being the most full-bodied, or warmer? The L300 feels a little thin at times and like the upper mids are peaky. I recognize the amp may be part of the issue.


----------



## tabness

i have the 009S, Omega, and L500 MK2 in terms of electrostats (heard them on T1S and 353X)

the only one i feel is a bit lacking in "body" is the L500 but to me it isnt much of a problem... though in general i prefer the mids of my CD3000 over any of them and that is the phone that gets the most listening time (well ignoring earbuds lol)

i actually think the Omega is more veiled than the 009S, the 009S seems to be the ultimate clarity i have heard in any transducer (well that and maybe the Utopia)

Just going by the common impressions maybe the 007 is what you're looking for and is worth auditioning? (disclaimer: never heard it)


----------



## 118900

DesignTaylor said:


> Thanks! Which would you describe as being the most full-bodied, or warmer? The L300 feels a little thin at times and like the upper mids are peaky. I recognize the amp may be part of the issue.


007s with spritzer mod are excellent


----------



## chocolates

i've listened to L300/L500 and 007mk1 and greatly prefer the 007mk1 personally. could be bias but even technicalities aside the tonality is much more pleasing. I struggle to listen to the lambda for longer than a couple hours without fatigue settling in, though it also just doesn't quite have as good a fit on my head as the omega does.

on a slightly unrelated note (but only slightly) - got my vesper earpads in for the 007 and they're amazing! a little bit of a tight fit and you can't seem to wrap them around the insert disc and the rotating headphone disc, but it's totally fine since i no longer need to fiddle with it for the seal - i just set it to the correct orientation and i don't have any issues with it cutting out or anything.


----------



## elton7033

chocolates said:


> i've listened to L300/L500 and 007mk1 and greatly prefer the 007mk1 personally. could be bias but even technicalities aside the tonality is much more pleasing. I struggle to listen to the lambda for longer than a couple hours without fatigue settling in, though it also just doesn't quite have as good a fit on my head as the omega does.
> 
> on a slightly unrelated note (but only slightly) - got my vesper earpads in for the 007 and they're amazing! a little bit of a tight fit and you can't seem to wrap them around the insert disc and the rotating headphone disc, but it's totally fine since i no longer need to fiddle with it for the seal - i just set it to the correct orientation and i don't have any issues with it cutting out or anything.



I agree, I prefer the 007Mk1 to my already sold SR-404LE, and most of the time i actually prefer 007Mk1 to 009 when listening to music which are downloaded where i dont always need the high resolution of the 009s


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6 (Jan 11, 2021)

elton7033 said:


> I agree, I prefer the 007Mk1 to my already sold SR-404LE, and most of the time i actually prefer 007Mk1 to 009 when listening to music which are downloaded where i dont always need the high resolution of the 009s


I'm the opposite. I can't stand the tonality of the 007 mk.1s 
I much prefer the 404LEs or even the Lambda professionals. 



DesignTaylor said:


> Thanks! Which would you describe as being the most full-bodied, or warmer? The L300 feels a little thin at times and like the upper mids are peaky. I recognize the amp may be part of the issue.


A set of Lambda Professionals with an SRM-T1 is a match made in heaven. I used to run my lambda Pros with a t1s before I got the ed-1 diffuse field equalizer and Srm1 mk2. 

I believe that people who prefer more thin and analytical headphones will prefer lambdas but those who want a more thick, laid-back sound will like Omegas. 

As a side note, you could pick up the Massdrop Koss stats with a stax adapter. They're sort of a middleground in-between the lambda sound and the omega sound. 

Specifically the massdrop version though. They have a slightly different sound signature than the regular koss estats.


----------



## Tugbars

Any omega with a proper amp sounds way more analytical to me than lambdas.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6 (Jan 12, 2021)

Tugbars said:


> Any omega with a proper amp sounds way more analytical to me than lambdas.


Which lambdas have you heard? 

I'm not very fond of the current generation. The 507s and 404LEs are both very good. I also enjoy the Lambda Professionals and Lambda Signatures. 

Stax did have a bit of trouble with quality control on the 507s though.  

I have compared the 007 mk.1 to the lambda professionals and 404LEs over and over again and the Omega simply isn't as open or transparent. It does have a nice warmth and bass though. 

In the end, I sold my 007s and my BHSE.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

I don't mean to attack people who do enjoy the 007s though. They simply aren't my cup of tea. That's why Stax sells lambdas and omegas.


----------



## Tugbars (Jan 12, 2021)

I have both 404LE and 507. 507 is a bit shouty and tends to get sibilant even though the music isn't calling for it. Both have wonky, tall soundstage with no width and L-R channel soundstages do not seem to be connected to each other.

First of all, on my system 507 and 007 sounds almost equally detailed, that said,

There are 4 things, Omega II does better
1- Full round soundstage all around my head with surprisingly deep soundstage.(for such intimate sounding presentation). All lambdas except L700 have very tiny soundstage from my experience. Excellent top level imaging. Both 007 and 009 are still kings of imaging in my opinion.
2- Bass resolution, texture. This becomes very apparent when I'm comparing 507 to 007. 507's bass is quite good relatively to other lambdas, however it still doesn't offer clean sub bass with texture like Omega II can do. 
3- Treble. I think this doesn't even need explanation, both 007 and 009 have fantastic treble performance especially with Carbon. Lambdas? Unfortunately no. This has something to do with the driver shape. Oval/Round shaped drivers do have less modes in treble range.
4- Mid texture. This is what 007 does better than anything else. I think that's what make some people still rave about 007.

What lambdas do better,

1- Energetic, funky mids. Some may call it shouty. That is not the case for 404LE in my opinion, sometimes I reach to my 404LE to listen fun & happy songs.
2- Lambdas sound like studio headphones. (Talking from my experiences and intuition)Instead of giving a proper image of the source, they present, image, position every detail in a way to make them more accessible to the listener. With top amps & dacs, 007 and ES-1A do not have to do such tricks to make all detail accessible to the listener.
3- 404LE's bass has better dynamics than 007's. 404LE has better dynamics overall.

I listened to 007's through 727 once and they sounded very boring. They sounded like an average planar actually. I keep hearing that 007 is laid back, thick etc, I don't know really, with Carbon they sound fast and actually even a bit aggressive to my ears.

I'll get my 009S this week. It's gonna be interesting to compare all to each other.


----------



## DesignTaylor

Interesting debate. Thank you all for sharing your experiences. As with all things in audio it likely comes down to raw technical ability, system synergy, and personal preference. But again, I do appreciate all the input as it is really informative.


----------



## chocolates

I'm pretty interested in the OG lambdas but can't seem to find any on the used market that don't look heavily abused, so haven't actually gone out on a limb to get one...


----------



## catscratch

007 is much more technically capable than any Lambda, including the L700. It is noticeably more resolving, it has a more 3-dimensional soundstage and is better at portraying depth, with a layering ability that I haven't heard in other headphones. It is also consistently resolving top to bottom whereas Lambdas tend to be fuzzy in the bass. However the 007 has a more laidback presentation, the presence region tends to be recessed and upper treble can be recessed in the Mk1 versions. Mk2 versions can also suffer from a wonky midrange tonality which you can see in the measurements, the bumps at 900hz and 1.something khz are audible. Lambdas also suffer from a wonky tonality with shoutiness between 1-2khz depending on the model. Lambdas are generally more forward and exciting sounding, though also thinner and less refined.

From a technical standpoint, there is no competition, the 007 wins, not just over lambdas but over most other headphones period. But I can see someone preferring the more forward signature of the Lambdas and the brighter tonality. And if you don't have a powerful enough amp, then don't bother with the 007.

For me, I just EQ both and make them sound at least a bit more neutral. My EQ'd and modded L700 gets most of the electrostatic listening time right now but it might change if I get the Blue Hawaii up and running again. The L700, at least in this system, sounds a bit like Focal headphones with its forward presentation and excellent clarity and dynamics, though it trades away the bass impact for a much more natural tembre to the highs. The midrange shoutiness does EQ out quite well and the mids become far more natural.


----------



## Tugbars

007mkI has the least 1khz shout(almost none), mk2.9 has about +5.5db 1khz shout. With spritzer spring mod it drops down to +2db which is acceptable, I guess.


----------



## catscratch

Yes the mk1 is more balanced, and reducing the driver/ear distance on the mk2 seems to improve things. Since I have a minidsp ears now I might as well measure mine stock, then port/spring mod it and measure again. Then again the 007 is very hard to measure accurately, pretty much no single measurement I've seen reflects how it sounds and mine won't mean much either. At least it'll be interesting.


----------



## tkddans

I just got into STAX with a L300. I think I’m a STAX fan now. Loving it so much. I’ve had the sennheiser HD800S for years now, and the L300 clarity was mind opening on first impressions.

I find myself not getting the same joy the next day today, trying them on again. Maybe I was up too late listening to them last night! Or is there something with the system I should know?

Do these electrostatic ear speakers require any particular operation to perform their best? Do I want to keep the energizer on? Do I want to keep the STAX plugged in with the power turned on for some time first before listening, to build a charge or something? I’ve currently just plugged it in, turned it on from cold, and started listening.I don’t remember how I did things last night.

Or do I just need to listen to them more?


----------



## elton7033 (Jan 13, 2021)

tkddans said:


> I just got into STAX with a L300. I think I’m a STAX fan now. Loving it so much. I’ve had the sennheiser HD800S for years now, and the L300 clarity was mind opening on first impressions.
> 
> I find myself not getting the same joy the next day today, trying them on again. Maybe I was up too late listening to them last night! Or is there something with the system I should know?
> 
> ...


I am going to say some stax myths as some might disagree
1.) all energizer / amp require warm up no matter is SS or tube
2.) with the SR009 unplug it from an amp even its off from time to time will discharge the driver build up electrostatic and make it sound great again
3.)  touch the 5 pin connector with your hand and you will hear the driver and sometimes that fixes problem like noise and channel imbalances
4.) do not use your stax when humidity is high
5.) put a air purifier (ionizer) around to lower dust level
6.) cover your stax when its not being use
7.) put it back in the box with some dehumidifier pack if you are not going to touch it for more than 2-3 weeks
believe me or not lol


----------



## chocolates

tkddans said:


> I just got into STAX with a L300. I think I’m a STAX fan now. Loving it so much. I’ve had the sennheiser HD800S for years now, and the L300 clarity was mind opening on first impressions.
> 
> I find myself not getting the same joy the next day today, trying them on again. Maybe I was up too late listening to them last night! Or is there something with the system I should know?
> 
> ...



might just be the difference from hd800s that gave you that magic and you're getting used to the sound now, but it doesn't hurt to just listen to them more


----------



## 118900

tkddans said:


> I just got into STAX with a L300. I think I’m a STAX fan now. Loving it so much. I’ve had the sennheiser HD800S for years now, and the L300 clarity was mind opening on first impressions.
> 
> I find myself not getting the same joy the next day today, trying them on again. Maybe I was up too late listening to them last night! Or is there something with the system I should know?
> 
> ...


Almost certainly just the mood you are in right now, unless something major had happened to your environment/equipment.


----------



## batfier

sinefine said:


> Hello,
> 
> Newcomer here.  I got an opened box SRM-D50 for and a new L700MK2. The left channel seems to have a faint buzzing/humming noise. Not noticeable when playing music but audible when nothing is playing. The noise is there without USB connection and when the amp is turned on. I left it on for an hour and it was hot to the touch and the noise was still there. I tried plugging the AC to different wall outlets and it didn't make a difference.
> 
> Is this normal?


Hi,

it's not normal, but unfortunately known!

i had returned 2 units some time ago. both had this same noise problem.

i was not the only one experiencing it and it looks to me like a common problem of the D50. i had hoped the stax will fix it.

in my units the noise even increased after unit was warm/hot.

i really liked the D50. its small and it seems to have more Bass than my BHSE. otherwise I'm not sure if this more Bass comes from sound tuning or distortion.


----------



## batfier

BowWazoo said:


> i have a question about sr009. is the 009 capable of delivering energetic, punchy bass if I adjusted it to the Harman curve?



for me absolutely.

- Using 009 with BHSE. 
- harman curved applied by Roon convolver.
- setting from autoeq, based on oratory measurements.

bass is deeeep, energetic and punchy, but the main point for me is the better tonal balance which even make the stage more real.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6 (Jan 15, 2021)

Tugbars said:


> 007mkI has the least 1khz shout(almost none), mk2.9 has about +5.5db 1khz shout. With spritzer spring mod it drops down to +2db which is acceptable, I guess.


I've noticed that other people often say that lambdas are "studio-like." Forward and very energetic. With an extreme overemphasis on instrument separation and positioning. "Left-Brained". "Not suitable for relaxation." They just make every single instrument immediately accessible to my ear. I don't have to listen very closely, they throw everything directly at me. It seems that others see this as a bad thing. 

However, this is actually what I love about lambdas and the lack of it in the 007s is why I can't stand them. So, while the things that you say are correct I see them as pros, not cons. What you see as pros in the 007s I see as boring and laid-back. Not my cup of tea at all. Which is why Stax sells Omegas and Lambdas, you can't please everyone with the same headphone. 

As for the fr anomalies and small soundstage of lambdas. This is why Stax used to make the ed-1 diffuse field equalizer, which I own. It tames the lambda shout and increases soundstage and improves imaging further still. It even brings the bass level up a bit. 

Unfortunately, they no longer manufacture it and it is tuned specifically for the Lambda Professionals and the Lambda Signatures. Which is why I say that those 2, along with the equalizer, are still the best lambdas that Stax have ever made.

*edit-Also, I'm not sure how to explain it but 007s aren't as "open" as lambdas. There is physically more shutting my ear away from the outside air. The only other headphone that I have tried which is as "open" as lambdas is the Focal Utopia. In the sense that they just don't isolate you from the outside world at all. However, the focal Utopias have their own set problems.


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## chocolates

man, i'm jealous - i really want an ed-1, if only to hear what it sounds like.

also would agree with all your points though it just ends up that personally i enjoy the omega more (and it seats a little better on my head). i still keep my lambda around for when i want that particular sound signature and the retro look haha


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## 118900

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> I've noticed that other people often say that lambdas are "studio-like." Forward and very energetic. With an extreme overemphasis on instrument separation and positioning. "Left-Brained". "Not suitable for relaxation." They just make every single instrument immediately accessible to my ear. I don't have to listen very closely, they throw everything directly at me. It seems that others see this as a bad thing.
> 
> However, this is actually what I love about lambdas and the lack of it in the 007s is why I can't stand them. So, while the things that you say are correct I see them as pros, not cons. What you see as pros in the 007s I see as boring and laid-back. Not my cup of tea at all. Which is why Stax sells Omegas and Lambdas, you can't please everyone with the same headphone.
> 
> ...


A lot depends on what you are using to power the 007s though. Most if not all Stax amps in their standard form aren’t adequate for the 007s which results in them not playing anywhere near their bests.

but definitely agree it’s a question of taste, once you know you have auditioned each HP to its best performance


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## DesignTaylor

I am discovering quickly just how much influence the energizer has. In my past experiences with planar and dynamic cans it became obvious how important the synergy between amp and HP was but with electrostatics it seems like it might be even more pronounced. 

I swapped out the tubes in my SRM-T1 from some GEs to some Toshibas from Japan and the difference in how the L300 LTDs sound is pretty remarkable. More body, smoother, less gain, less shout in the upper mids. Way more to my taste. Probably the most impactful $15 I've ever spent on audio gear. 

Looking forward to what the new amp can do.


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## bigjako

DesignTaylor said:


> I am discovering quickly just how much influence the energizer has. In my past experiences with planar and dynamic cans it became obvious how important the synergy between amp and HP was but with electrostatics it seems like it might be even more pronounced.
> 
> I swapped out the tubes in my SRM-T1 from some GEs to some Toshibas from Japan and the difference in how the L300 LTDs sound is pretty remarkable. More body, smoother, less gain, less shout in the upper mids. Way more to my taste. Probably the most impactful $15 I've ever spent on audio gear.
> 
> Looking forward to what the new amp can do.


When you swapped tubes did you also re-bias?  I've swapped tubes to great effect for non-electrostatic amps but have been worried about doing it on my electrostatic amps, without having ever rebiased tubes before.


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## chocolates

there's a great tutorial on head-fi actually for rebiasing, i did it for my 007t: https://www.head-fi.org/articles/adjusting-bias-on-stax-tube-amplifiers.17232/



DesignTaylor said:


> I am discovering quickly just how much influence the energizer has. In my past experiences with planar and dynamic cans it became obvious how important the synergy between amp and HP was but with electrostatics it seems like it might be even more pronounced.



yeah, estats seem to behave more like speakers than traditional cans with respect to their relationship between amplifiers and sound


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## DesignTaylor

bigjako said:


> When you swapped tubes did you also re-bias?



I did not take the time to re-bias. I know I probably should but was feeling a bit lax about it. 

That is a great write up, looks pretty easy, just need to find my multimeter.


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## PointyFox

Yeah, could be a lack of power or maybe a lack of seal? If a SR-007 leaks a lot of air it will sound pretty bad until you do the bass port mod.  Once modded with a proper amp they sound more transparent than Lambdas and the Utopia, with the SR-009 sounding even more transparent and being sealed well by default.


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6 (Jan 17, 2021)

PointyFox said:


> Yeah, could be a lack of power or maybe a lack of seal? If a SR-007 leaks a lot of air it will sound pretty bad until you do the bass port mod.  Once modded with a proper amp they sound more transparent than Lambdas and the Utopia, with the SR-009 sounding even more transparent and being sealed well by default.



Haha, I wasn't really referring to the sound of the music being "transparent" in my last paragraph. I meant how the structure of the headphones themselves is more open. For example, when you put Utopias on your head, with no audio playing, they are physically very open. They don't shut you away from the outside world. Even when there is pure silence the construction of the cups and earpads themselves makes it seem as if air can pass right through. Lambdas are more like that than the 007s. 

Meanwhile, on something like the Meze Empyrean or Audeze LCD-4 it feels like there is a wall separating you from the world. Not as closed-off feeling as a closed-back headphone but more closed-off than Lambdas or the Utopias. Not the sound but the actual build of the headphones is not as open and clear. This sort of affects how I perceive the audio being played on the headphones. The 007s are certainly more open than the lcd-4s or Empyreans but they are not as open as lambdas or utopias.

Not the clarity of sound but rather the openness of actually having them on your head. I don't think that I can explain it any better than that. 

When this physically more open structure is combined with the way that Lambdas over-emphasize instrument separation and the 007s don't and stage more like a conventional high-end headphone I perceive the lambdas as being more open and clear. 

Also, I had the 007 mk.1s which are supposedly better sealed out of the box than the later variants. I'm certainly willing to listen to a modded mk.2  and see what the differences are though.


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6

It might just be a quality of headphone construction that I'm particularly sensitive to.


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## PointyFox

In my mind they're similar, but I guess once music starts playing you can get additional reflections that weren't audible before, so they're different in that regard. The Empyrean isn't very transparent in either regard. When I first tried them out I thought "These are pretty good for closed-back headphones.  Oh wait, they're open? Ehh...".


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## astromaddie

Would a 007 Mk2 be worth getting? I have a T1S I’ll be doing the constant current mod on, and a D10. I have a L700 but I’d be selling off the lambda in exchange for the 007.


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## Mach3

As long as you don't listen to them super loud you should be fine.
Also you should port mod the 007 Mk2.


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## astromaddie

Is the port mod like the bluetak mod for the L700?


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## 118900 (Jan 19, 2021)

astromaddie said:


> Would a 007 Mk2 be worth getting? I have a T1S I’ll be doing the constant current mod on, and a D10. I have a L700 but I’d be selling off the lambda in exchange for the 007.


remember you need adequate amplification for the 007s. Without it they risk sounding "worse" than the L700s, bear that in mind based on the modification you intend to do to the T1S.

I cannot comment on the SQ between the two as I have never heard the L700s but I can guarantee that when properly amplified the 007 Mk2 with Spritzer blutac port modification are noticeably better (to my ears) than the Audeze LCD-4z.


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## astromaddie

juansan said:


> remember you need adequate amplification for the 007s. Without it they risk sounding "worse" than the L700s, bear that in mind based on the modification you intend to do to the T1S.


So you think even with the D10, the 007 will sound “worse” than the L700, not just “similar”? I assume the CCS mod on the T1S will provide adequate amplification at least, but it would be disappointing if I couldn’t really use my D10 anymore.


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## 118900 (Jan 19, 2021)

astromaddie said:


> So you think even with the D10, the 007 will sound “worse” than the L700, not just “similar”? I assume the CCS mod on the T1S will provide adequate amplification at least, but it would be disappointing if I couldn’t really use my D10 anymore.


I asked the same question myself when I was trying to decide (including to @spritzer) and the consensus is that the D10 simply doesn't  have the power to drive the 007s.

The 007s require that extra power to drive them properly at the high and low frequencies, unlike the L700 (and lambdas in general) which by their very construction are easier to drive, therefore the 007s risk sounding bloated and out of control in the low end and dull in the high end because of this lack of power. With the same amp that cannot drive the 007s the L700s could sound perfectly adequate because the power is enough to drive them.

The difference is that when both are amplified correctly, the 007s will sound much better than the L700s.

I am driving mine with a modified SRM-717 and like I said, I dropped the Audeze immediately after hearing the 007s.


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## Tugbars (Jan 19, 2021)

I totally agree with Juansan. I'd say, don't consider buying 007 unless you have Carbon(If you don't have money for Mjolnir Carbon you can get one of those made by famous legit builders) and a dac which is at least at the same level of Denafrips Pontus. My SR507's sound almost equally detailed with a 500$ dac or a 1800$ dac.(tonality is similar too) However, the difference between these dacs are like day and night when I compare them with 007. I don't know how to explain it, I don't know the scientific side of things but that's how things are.


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## 118900 (Jan 19, 2021)

You can power a 007 with a kgsshv or equivalent (such as modified Stax amplifiers) I don’t think you necessarily have to reach carbon level for the 007 to sound incredible, although carbon is allegedly the TOTL amplification for it and they will sound their best on it.

I totally agree regarding the difference in the DAC being clearly audible with the 007s. I switched from a chord Hugo2 to a HugoTT2 and although I really wasn’t expecting a massive difference there definitely was and it was clearly audible on my set up.

For all the very good things I have to say about the hugo2, THE HTT2 is night and day improvement and clearly noticeable with the 007s


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## astromaddie

That’s interesting about the amp scaling, I keep reading really conflicting views that Stax branded amps can’t drive the omegas, and they’re perfectly fine if not the best. Some people use the D10 or 353x with their 007 and 009 and others say you need to use a Carbon or KGSSHV as a minimum.

I have no doubt that something like a Carbon would be best, but I’m curious if the 007A would sound noticeably worse than my L700 over the stock 006t or my D10, since it will be some time before I’m able to complete the CCS mod! The D10 is a really convenient piece of kit and it would be a shame to have to sell it..


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## 118900

astromaddie said:


> That’s interesting about the amp scaling, I keep reading really conflicting views that Stax branded amps can’t drive the omegas, and they’re perfectly fine if not the best. Some people use the D10 or 353x with their 007 and 009 and others say you need to use a Carbon or KGSSHV as a minimum.
> 
> I have no doubt that something like a Carbon would be best, but I’m curious if the 007A would sound noticeably worse than my L700 over the stock 006t or my D10, since it will be some time before I’m able to complete the CCS mod! The D10 is a really convenient piece of kit and it would be a shame to have to sell it..


My understanding is that the best production Stax amplifiers for the 007 is the 717 and the valve amps of the same era. Many consider that group to be the minimum acceptable level.

A massive improvement can be had with adequate modification to these Stax amps to the level that they can apparently reach kgsshv level which is very good.

from what I have been told (and I cannot say from first hand experience as I haven’t heard it myself) the D10 isn’t really a particularly worthy amp for the L700s and definitely not a good choice to drive the 007s.


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## chocolates

srm-252s can "power" omegas for sure but treble rolloff is pretty noticeable. not too sure about d10 but i imagine you'll get similar results. i also felt like there was a bit of rumble missing but it's been a while since i tried - i can go compare the two later on today since i've got a kgsshv carbon now


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## 118900

chocolates said:


> srm-252s can "power" omegas for sure but treble rolloff is pretty noticeable. not too sure about d10 but i imagine you'll get similar results. i also felt like there was a bit of rumble missing but it's been a while since i tried - i can go compare the two later on today since i've got a kgsshv carbon now


Show off 😜 (that’s just my jealousy 🤣)


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## Tugbars (Jan 19, 2021)

When I plug my 007 to SRM252S, instead of bass I only hear noise andno treble. There is some mid presentation going on however It sounds extremely off.

Voltage determines how loud electrostatic headphones can get. Multiplying voltages isn't really a challenge in amp making. SRM252S can drive 007 to defeaning levels. That said, what you hear will be mostly noise.

(note: I like to listen loud but not extremely loud)


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## 118900

Tugbars said:


> When I plug my 007 to SRM252S, instead of bass I only hear noise andno treble. There is some mid presentation going on however It sounds extremely off.
> 
> Voltage determines how loud electrostatic headphones can get. Multiplying voltages isn't really a challenge in amp making. SRM252S can drive 007 to defeaning levels. That said, what you hear will be mostly noise.


The bias voltage which establishes the volume for all pro amps is the same and around 580v.

If I understood correctly the problem with the 007s is that due to their physical construction (which differs from the lambdas old and new) they are particularly “current hungry” at the frequency extremes and most Stax amps simply cannot supply the current requirements to ensure the low frequencies are controlled and deep and that the high frequencies are clear and audible. This can apparently be corrected with several modifications to a select number of Stax amps, but I’m pretty sure that the problem isn’t the volume per se provided the amp has a pro bias output.


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## astromaddie

chocolates said:


> srm-252s can "power" omegas for sure but treble rolloff is pretty noticeable. not too sure about d10 but i imagine you'll get similar results. i also felt like there was a bit of rumble missing but it's been a while since i tried - i can go compare the two later on today since i've got a kgsshv carbon now


Yes please! There’s a 007A for sale locally for a really decent price and I’m feeling a bit antsy and getting trigger happy. I also don’t have golden ears, though I appreciate good sound with good music— I’m quite happy with the L700 except for the somewhat thin and bass-light sound it has.


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## PointyFox

The D50 works well with the 007.


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## catscratch

007A sounds worse than the L700 with the 007t, and the 006t has even less power. Having said that, I don't like the L700 with the 007t either. It's fine for low to moderate volume listening, but at anything above moderate volume the 007t just runs out of juice. Not much happens when you turn the volume up except the sound becomes brighter and more compressed. I use the L700 with the 717 and it is a very nice combo though of course finding a 717 these days is going to be hard.

I would look at something like an Octave from Mjolnir audio as a good starter amp for the L700 and a KGSS for the 007. The 717 will drive the 007 decently well, but it's a bare minimum and not ideal.

Regarding thin and bass-light sound - this is why the gods invented equalizers. But you will need an amp that has enough headroom to play above normal listening levels with no problems.

TL;DR Jeremy Clarkson was right and it all comes down to power.


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## bigjako

catscratch said:


> 007A sounds worse than the L700 with the 007t, and the 006t has even less power. Having said that, I don't like the L700 with the 007t either. It's fine for low to moderate volume listening, but at anything above moderate volume the 007t just runs out of juice. Not much happens when you turn the volume up except the sound becomes brighter and more compressed. I use the L700 with the 717 and it is a very nice combo though of course finding a 717 these days is going to be hard.
> 
> I would look at something like an Octave from Mjolnir audio as a good starter amp for the L700 and a KGSS for the 007. The 717 will drive the 007 decently well, but it's a bare minimum and not ideal.
> 
> ...



So do you think a KGSSHV would drive the 007s well enough, or is the Carbon the minimum to "properly" drive them?  I have an 006 and am interested in a KGSSHV but I'm wondering if that's only just slightly better than the 006 and I should focus on saving for the Carbon.


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## 118900

bigjako said:


> So do you think a KGSSHV would drive the 007s well enough, or is the Carbon the minimum to "properly" drive them?  I have an 006 and am interested in a KGSSHV but I'm wondering if that's only just slightly better than the 006 and I should focus on saving for the Carbon.


Both kgsshv and carbon will drive them, don’t forget that originally the kgsshv was the solid state amp of choice even in its first iteration so the latest versions are even better. Everyone I know or have read about who has used one confirm it’s perfectly good (including Birgir at mjolnir-audio) but obviously the carbon is better at a price difference.


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## catscratch

KGSSHV should be great.


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## AlexmodNew

Hello. I m newby, so Hello to all stax lovers here.
Now I have on a hands very rare item, *Airbow SR-SC01 *that as I know is a kind of prototype to *SR-404LE*. Which is very close to *SR-404* and *SR-4070* driver(s).
*SR-4070* is very rare and expensive. So i just wamnna try to 3D print their closed back cups to try how it can sound, usind drivers from *Airbow*.

Unfortunatelly I just cannot find any photos of inside layering of 4070 cups. Does anybody know what laaying inside? Only dampening materials as used in Sigmas? Or something more unusual and complex? Possibly somebody can provide any photos of that, to made the project alive?


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## Aurosonic

KGSSHV is immensly better than the 717. I noticed the improvement within seconds. Though if not for having heard the former, I would be very happy with the 717. It's a fine little amp that allows you to enjoy the 007's, just not at their best.


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## PointyFox

The KGSSHV drives them very well. If you're looking at the Carbon, keep in mind it's larger, uses twice the power, and produces about twice the amount of heat.


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## chocolates

astromaddie said:


> Yes please! There’s a 007A for sale locally for a really decent price and I’m feeling a bit antsy and getting trigger happy. I also don’t have golden ears, though I appreciate good sound with good music— I’m quite happy with the L700 except for the somewhat thin and bass-light sound it has.



finally got around to trying the two (252S / KGSSHV Carbon). there's a big difference - much larger than any difference i've ever heard between regular solid state amplifiers. the bass response and even low mids are a lot more controlled - not quite muddy, and the nuances come out much better in the KGSSHV - and the upper treble isn't quite as wonky. i usually refrain from saying nebulous things like "soundstage is improved" but i think the treble rolloff from the 252S really contributes to a more constrained sound.

that being said, it's surprising how well the SRM-252S works. the mids still sound.. great, and if you don't listen to extreme volume, you even have some headroom for modest EQ if that's what you're into. i didn't notice significant timbre differences for violins or most vocals, but if you ever listen to orchestral pieces with a tight bassline or piano pieces that go lower in the frequencies, i think that's where you'll hear the biggest difference. on the other hand, if you listen to string quartets, you'll probably need much more trained ears than mine to hear differences - unless there's a cello in the quartet.

disclaimer: these were sighted tests, level-matched by ear at 1khz. i do have a multimeter but it's in storage somewhere so i can't do a proper voltage-matched test, nor do i have a friend to aid in blind testing. this is like the least scientific test ever, so do take it with a grain of salt; that being said, i genuinely can't even hear past 16k through the 252S and i can hear up to 17.5k with the KGSSHV carbon, so at the bare minimum there's a pretty clear treble rolloff, though it's debatable whether those upper frequencies matter. i personally felt like there was a night and day difference in the bass and subbass, but not nearly as much (if any) in the mids. hope that helps!


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## Moak

I own the Stax SRM-600, but my question also applies to other amps. 
My source is a CD player that has XLR and RCA jacks. I have my Stax amp on the XLR connection and a Hifiman EF100 for dynamic headphones on the RCA connection. 
I switch on both amps at the same time and sometimes listen alternately with the Stax handset (L-700) and the dynamic headphones (HD-800).

Can i do this or is it not good? Does something speak against it?


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## JLoud

I run my DAC XLR to an amp and RCA to two different amps(DAC has two RCA outs) with no issues. I have done the same thing where I compare headphones. All three amps running at the same time with no issues.


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## DesignTaylor

Same here, I have typically had more than one amp on the desk so I usually have the DAC or a preamp connected to multiple amps (tube, solid-state, STAX) all running at the same time. No issues.


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## astromaddie

chocolates said:


> finally got around to trying the two (252S / KGSSHV Carbon). there's a big difference - much larger than any difference i've ever heard between regular solid state amplifiers. the bass response and even low mids are a lot more controlled - not quite muddy, and the nuances come out much better in the KGSSHV - and the upper treble isn't quite as wonky. i usually refrain from saying nebulous things like "soundstage is improved" but i think the treble rolloff from the 252S really contributes to a more constrained sound.
> 
> that being said, it's surprising how well the SRM-252S works. the mids still sound.. great, and if you don't listen to extreme volume, you even have some headroom for modest EQ if that's what you're into. i didn't notice significant timbre differences for violins or most vocals, but if you ever listen to orchestral pieces with a tight bassline or piano pieces that go lower in the frequencies, i think that's where you'll hear the biggest difference. on the other hand, if you listen to string quartets, you'll probably need much more trained ears than mine to hear differences - unless there's a cello in the quartet.
> 
> disclaimer: these were sighted tests, level-matched by ear at 1khz. i do have a multimeter but it's in storage somewhere so i can't do a proper voltage-matched test, nor do i have a friend to aid in blind testing. this is like the least scientific test ever, so do take it with a grain of salt; that being said, i genuinely can't even hear past 16k through the 252S and i can hear up to 17.5k with the KGSSHV carbon, so at the bare minimum there's a pretty clear treble rolloff, though it's debatable whether those upper frequencies matter. i personally felt like there was a night and day difference in the bass and subbass, but not nearly as much (if any) in the mids. hope that helps!


Thanks so much for following up on this! I realise your test was incredibly unscientific and subject to bias, but your results sound pretty objective, all things considering. I think this lends confirmation that it’s the higher current output of these “better” amps that helps out the extremes (bass and treble). Can you speak more about the differences between the two amps in the bass region, in absolute values? I believe the bass is _better_ with the Carbon, but are we talking about the difference between “good” and “great” as a 15% step up? Or more severe than that?

I current have an unorthodox setup that I’ve been listening to my new 007A with: the D10 I mentioned before, and a normal-bias DIY SRX. I notice the SRX sounds noticeably better than the D10, even _despite_ having half the voltage bias. I’m planning to do the constant current mod to my T1S and keep the SRX as-is for now, but my T1S is much more aged and the SRX still sounds better than the T1S at the moment. Go figure.


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## 118900

astromaddie said:


> Thanks so much for following up on this! I realise your test was incredibly unscientific and subject to bias, but your results sound pretty objective, all things considering. I think this lends confirmation that it’s the higher current output of these “better” amps that helps out the extremes (bass and treble). Can you speak more about the differences between the two amps in the bass region, in absolute values? I believe the bass is _better_ with the Carbon, but are we talking about the difference between “good” and “great” as a 15% step up? Or more severe than that?
> 
> I current have an unorthodox setup that I’ve been listening to my new 007A with: the D10 I mentioned before, and a normal-bias DIY SRX. I notice the SRX sounds noticeably better than the D10, even _despite_ having half the voltage bias. I’m planning to do the constant current mod to my T1S and keep the SRX as-is for now, but my T1S is much more aged and the SRX still sounds better than the T1S at the moment. Go figure.


If it can supply a more constant current it will sound quieter because of its normal bias but the bass and treble will be served better and thus sound better


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## Tugbars (Jan 23, 2021)

D10 has enough current output for how much voltage it can swing. The problem with D10 is that it's voltage output isn't high enough. Thus, it can't drive headphones loud enough -especially 007- for most of people.


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## astromaddie

Voltage output is a constant 580V for all Pro bias outputs, isn't it? I had no issues with loudness with playing the 007 on my D10 (I still have quite sensitive hearing, luckily!), but dynamics at the either extreme -- treble and bass -- felt more muted.


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## BenF

astromaddie said:


> Voltage output is a constant 580V for all Pro bias outputs, isn't it? I had no issues with loudness with playing the 007 on my D10 (I still have quite sensitive hearing, luckily!), but dynamics at the either extreme -- treble and bass -- felt more muted.


580v is the bias voltage, not output.
D10 can put out 200vrms, while D50 has 400vrms
https://stax-international.com/products/srm-d10/
https://stax-international.com/products/srm-d50/


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## chocolates

astromaddie said:


> Thanks so much for following up on this! I realise your test was incredibly unscientific and subject to bias, but your results sound pretty objective, all things considering. I think this lends confirmation that it’s the higher current output of these “better” amps that helps out the extremes (bass and treble). Can you speak more about the differences between the two amps in the bass region, in absolute values? I believe the bass is _better_ with the Carbon, but are we talking about the difference between “good” and “great” as a 15% step up? Or more severe than that?
> 
> I current have an unorthodox setup that I’ve been listening to my new 007A with: the D10 I mentioned before, and a normal-bias DIY SRX. I notice the SRX sounds noticeably better than the D10, even _despite_ having half the voltage bias. I’m planning to do the constant current mod to my T1S and keep the SRX as-is for now, but my T1S is much more aged and the SRX still sounds better than the T1S at the moment. Go figure.


15% sounds about right, or perhaps more depending on how much you value your bass? i'd say it's certainly within the realm of confident abx blind testing, almost like the difference between highly compressed mp3 and 320kbps. i suspect the improved subbass extension lends more physicality to the omegas, while it's not quite as noticeable on the lambda. i would be really interested in seeing a fr graph for omegas using different energizers; i suspect that the higher end (KGSSHV/CCS modded) have a much better response than the weaker ones.

i do have a digital multimeter so i think i can just measure the output voltage of the stax jacks to get a proper level-matched test, though i won't be able to do it blind for quite a while:




i guess i'd just measure L-/L+ and R-/R+?


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## astromaddie

chocolates said:


> 15% sounds about right, or perhaps more depending on how much you value your bass? i'd say it's certainly within the realm of confident abx blind testing, almost like the difference between highly compressed mp3 and 320kbps. i suspect the improved subbass extension lends more physicality to the omegas, while it's not quite as noticeable on the lambda. i would be really interested in seeing a fr graph for omegas using different energizers; i suspect that the higher end (KGSSHV/CCS modded) have a much better response than the weaker ones.
> 
> i do have a digital multimeter so i think i can just measure the output voltage of the stax jacks to get a proper level-matched test, though i won't be able to do it blind for quite a while:
> 
> i guess i'd just measure L-/L+ and R-/R+?


Yep, I’ve been meaning to check my jacks too. The normal bias pin configuration should be the same, right? Any idea what the middle post for Normal is for?

15% doesn’t sound particularly big to me, definitely noticeably and welcome an improvement but not as enormous as I feel the difference between 128kbps and 320kbps. Then again, I haven’t compared the compression bitrates in a while and I know MP3 compression has improved a lot in recent years.

I’m also curious how the FR would measure with different amplifiers and, given my setup, different output bias. In theory, I’ve heard the normal bias reduces the power at the extremes so there should be reduced bass and treble, but I didn’t hear that compared to my D10.


----------



## beholdclarity (Feb 10, 2021)

Hello Stax lovers,

I have a question.
Currently I am employing a L300 limited, which in many cases has been described as close enough to the L700.

If I make a switch to either of these headphones; where along the analytical-to-warm or lean-to-lush axis as well as the fast-to-slow would these put me with the L700 being a neutral point for me.

A.) Sr-007mk2 (current production model)
B.) Sr-007 mk1 (I guess the holy grail is the 70xxx serial number)
B.) Sr-009

For amplification I use a diy tube amp which should have sufficient capabilities for either

thanks for your insight


---EDIT---

I have since had the chance to compare these headphones, and for those coming from google searching for answers, here is what I have experienced.

The L300 limited has more prominent bass than the SR-009
The SR-009 is dead neutral, faster and slightly leaner than the L300 limited. It is not clinical, not piercing but IMHO less relaxing. It is -as advertised- most and foremost revealing. Vocals are extremely realistic.
The SR-007 mk2 (mk2.9, purchased after 2015) is less bright than all of those but no where near really warm. It strikes me as neutral-warm. It is more revealing than the L300 limited in the mids and the lows. It has more texture and sacrifices almost no speed. Vocals are pregnant with emotion and the bass is detailed, exciting and textured. For me it is the ultimate winner
The L300 limited is only marginally different from the 009 sonically. This really surprised me. I was hard-fetched to make up my mind which I liked better between the two.
Note: I have compared all of these headphones on a High-Amp Alpha Centauri v9.5, which I would describe as very intimate, slightly warm but very powerful


----------



## DesignTaylor

beholdclarity said:


> If I make a switch to either of these headphones; where along the analytical-to-warm or lean-to-lush axis as well as the fast-to-slow would these put me with the L700 being a neutral point for me.



I'm sure another Head-fier with more experience will chime in, but thought I would share my limited observations. I also have a L300 LTD (with L700 pads) and recently got to try a MKII SR-007 (not the most recent variant). I listen to both of them on my SRM-T1 which is not an ideal fit for the SR-007 so take this with a grain of salt. 

The L300 feels very wide open to me, punchy and exciting (occasionally too harsh), very cinematic in its presentation. The SR-007 was much warmer and smoother. Still had lots of great e-stat detail but the presentation was more intimate and overall it felt much closer to a planar in its signature.


----------



## chocolates

007mk1 has a pretty incredible bass response i haven't heard on any lambdas


----------



## Not Deaf

Does anybody know if there are any demo units going around for either the 007 or 009? I currently have the L700 and am thinking of upgrading to the 007 or 009 and just can’t decide. I currently run the L700 off the D50 and have heard it’s enough to power the 007 and that the 009 is slightly easier to drive than the 007. I don’t really want to upgrade the D50 anytime soon. I sometimes wish the L700 had more warmth and bass to it, but also want to experience more detail and ease with complex music passages. Overall, I want something more musical to the L700 if I were to upgrade.


----------



## Tugbars (Jan 25, 2021)

Talking from experience, without having a powerful amp, I see no point in upgrading L700 to SR007. To my ears, L700 with an average amp performs better than SR007 with an average amp.007 scales up much better however, with a well designed amp, 007 surely surpasses L700 in every area possible.(maybe L700 still have better soundstage width but that's all). 007 is better at showing problems of amps and dacs due to how it's designed.

People will say, "oh yeah you can drive 007 with D50". Yeah, you can. However, 007 does not sound really good or is worth the price if you are going to pair it with an average quality amp. Bass will be boomy, mids will lack texture, treble will be mush and bland. 007(to me) is just not worth to get if you don't have a high-end electrostatic amp lying around. What's to blame? Low diaphragm tension of SR007? Closed stator design? Something else? I don't know, I've heard a lot of rumors & half proven facts about it. Someone can enlighten us maybe. 

You do you. These are just some opinions of a random guy on internet. I used to own L700 and "upgraded" it to SR007 while having only a 353X. It was a disappointment for me in the beginning. I tested 007's with 727, 007T... 007 sounded just bland (to me) unless you pair it with a Carbon. (this can be a DIY carbon too, however Mjolnir Carbon has better sub bass performance, sounds less bright(in a good way) and harsh, can go even louder and has better clarity) After having a Carbon and listening to 007's, I understood what's all the fuss is about. 007's need really clean power to start shining and they need a lot of it. Years ago, if I read someone telling amps make such huge difference, I wouldn't believe it honestly.


----------



## chocolates

for what it's worth, it seems pretty consistent that people hear an upgrade from lower power stax amps to higher power ones (whether that's a ccs mod or kgsshv/carbon/bhse), whereas there are other potential upgrades that people are much more split on (high-end DACs for one)

i think you might be able to eq to get a similar feel, but the transients will still be sloppier on weaker outputs


----------



## DougD (Jan 26, 2021)

chocolates said:


> for what it's worth, it seems pretty consistent that people hear an upgrade from lower power stax amps to higher power ones (whether that's a ccs mod or kgsshv/carbon/bhse), whereas there are other potential upgrades that people are much more split on (high-end DACs for one)
> 
> i think you might be able to eq to get a similar feel, but the transients will still be sloppier on weaker outputs


A fairly common recurring theme I see re amps for Stax is that some people who don't have the higher tier amps argue/hope that "the top tier amps don't make a difference" with the people who DO have the top tier amps.

Which when you think about it, is kinda weird.

(Just an observation. I haven't had extended listens with any of the best stuff personally, let alone owned any. So far I've managed to be happy sticking with the older budget Lambdas etc.)


----------



## elton7033

juansan said:


> My understanding is that the best production Stax amplifiers for the 007 is the 717 and the valve amps of the same era. Many consider that group to be the minimum acceptable level.
> 
> A massive improvement can be had with adequate modification to these Stax amps to the level that they can apparently reach kgsshv level which is very good.
> 
> from what I have been told (and I cannot say from first hand experience as I haven’t heard it myself) the D10 isn’t really a particularly worthy amp for the L700s and definitely not a good choice to drive the 007s.


The best production stax amp for the 007 is the T2 if you can even find one lol but yeah i agree on the improvement on the level from 727 to carbon.


----------



## elton7033

chocolates said:


> for what it's worth, it seems pretty consistent that people hear an upgrade from lower power stax amps to higher power ones (whether that's a ccs mod or kgsshv/carbon/bhse), whereas there are other potential upgrades that people are much more split on (high-end DACs for one)
> 
> i think you might be able to eq to get a similar feel, but the transients will still be sloppier on weaker outputs


people in this forum is starting to forget about the BHSE and T2 i just keep on seeing post about the carbon, i own both the bhse and the carbon and i still think 009 is better with the carbon where the 007 sound unique on the bhse but the one with rk50 is overprice when a carbon can deliver similar performance or even better in some aspect while cheaper


----------



## 118900

elton7033 said:


> The best production stax amp for the 007 is the T2 if you can even find one lol but yeah i agree on the improvement on the level from 727 to carbon.


I agree that the T2 is undoubtedly (SQ wise) the pinnacle of Stax amplification however I didn't include it simply because a) there aren't any around, b) in stock form it has issues and c) if someone is looking for Stax amplification to avoid the costs of Carbon, T2 isn't really a viable alternative .

But 630 v output voltage.....

I still maintain that my own is absolutely mind blowing and although I can always dream, I do actually ask myself if I will ever really need to upgrade.


----------



## beholdclarity (Feb 10, 2021)

beholdclarity said:


> Hello Stax lovers,
> 
> I have a question.
> Currently I am employing a L300 limited, which in many cases has been described as close enough to the L700.
> ...



let me rephrase the question:

will the 009 be brighter/harsher/leaner than the l700?


---EDIT---

I have since had the chance to compare these headphones, and for those coming from google searching for answers, here is what I have experienced.

The L300 limited has more prominent bass than the SR-009
The SR-009 is dead neutral, faster and slightly leaner than the L300 limited. It is not clinical, not piercing but IMHO less relaxing. It is -as advertised- most and foremost revealing. Vocals are extremely realistic.
The SR-007 mk2 (mk2.9, purchased after 2015) is less bright than all of those but no where near really warm. It strikes me as neutral-warm. It is more revealing than the L300 limited in the mids and the lows. It has more texture and sacrifices almost no speed. Vocals are pregnant with emotion and the bass is detailed, exciting and textured. All frequencies feel well represented and finely detailed, without being in-your-face about it. For me it is the ultimate winner
The L300 limited is only marginally different from the 009 sonically. This really surprised me. I was hard-fetched to make up my mind which I liked better between the two.
Note: I have compared all of these headphones on a High-Amp Alpha Centauri v9.5, which I would describe as very intimate, slightly warm but very powerful


----------



## elton7033 (Jan 26, 2021)

beholdclarity said:


> let me rephrase the question:
> 
> will the 009 be brighter/harsher/leaner than the l700?


No not at all, but its true that sr009 is slightly brighter


----------



## Moak

One new question:
Can the Stax ED-5 equalizer only be used for Stax and then only for the Stax SR5?  Because in terms of circuitry, it would also work for all other headphones if it were looped through via RCA.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6 (Jan 26, 2021)

Perhaps I did not do the 007mk.1s justice when I owned them. Could it have been that my amplifier wasn't a good match? I tried them with the T1S, 353X, and BHSE. I wasn't all that impressed with any of them. Maybe what I should have gotten is a KGSSHV Carbon? I am more of a fan of SS than tubes usually. What is everyone's opinion of the Stax T8000? Has anyone here heard one yet?


----------



## 118900

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> Perhaps I did not do the 007mk.1s justice when I owned them. Could it have been that my amplifier wasn't a good match? I tried them with the T1S, 353X, and BHSE. I wasn't all that impressed with any of them. Maybe what I should have gotten is a KGSSHV Carbon? I am more of a fan of SS than tubes usually. What is everyone's opinion of the Stax T8000? Has anyone here heard one yet?


From what I have heard said about the T8000 it is not worth the asking price and not on a par with the KGSSHV family. Tubes are also mounted in such a way as to make tube rolling a pain in the rear.


----------



## chocolates

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> Perhaps I did not do the 007mk.1s justice when I owned them. Could it have been that my amplifier wasn't a good match? I tried them with the T1S, 353X, and BHSE. I wasn't all that impressed with any of them. Maybe what I should have gotten is a KGSSHV Carbon? I am more of a fan of SS than tubes usually. What is everyone's opinion of the Stax T8000? Has anyone here heard one yet?


that might be it honestly - i know birgir is also very much not a fan of the 353X (though i've never personally listened to it)

on the other hand though, i feel like you can still get the main character of the 007mk1 even on underpowered amps and it's not like the fr will change dramatically aside from subbass/treble extension


----------



## elton7033

chocolates said:


> that might be it honestly - i know birgir is also very much not a fan of the 353X (though i've never personally listened to it)
> 
> on the other hand though, i feel like you can still get the main character of the 007mk1 even on underpowered amps and it's not like the fr will change dramatically aside from subbass/treble extension


yea that's what I am trying to say, although amps like the 717 and 727 might be underpower for the 007Mk1, it will still being out the general character of the headphone. The only think I would like to add is the treble with the 007 and Carbon actually sound much more up front and spiky compare to the 727 making it sounds like more Focal but with electrostatic vibes lol


----------



## elton7033 (Jan 26, 2021)

juansan said:


> From what I have heard said about the T8000 it is not worth the asking price and not on a par with the KGSSHV family. Tubes are also mounted in such a way as to make tube rolling a pain in the rear.


There's a whole thread in headcase where Spitzer comments on his own t8000 being overprice...lol
https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/13002-stax-srm-t8000/
and for what the second hand market is asking for for the t8000 I highly recommend people just go for a normal kgsshv non carbon or even a kgst.

What makes me laugh is since the 60s STAX have been using the same basic circuit design from SRM-1 Mk2 to SRM-3 to 313 to 323, 717/ 727 now t8000 and keep on changing the output stage and calling it another amp... where the base design are the same, its like how the Japanese still uses the F4 since the 60s and keep changing bits and parts to try to make it relevant...


----------



## Tugbars (Jan 27, 2021)

chocolates said:


> that might be it honestly - i know birgir is also very much not a fan of the 353X (though i've never personally listened to it)
> 
> on the other hand though, i feel like you can still get the main character of the 007mk1 even on underpowered amps and it's not like the fr will change dramatically aside from subbass/treble extension



Actually 353X is a "Stax Mafia" approved amp. FR doesn't change(almost to none) with different amps, all Stax amps(including KG designs) sound "right" at a certain volume level. That level is too low for some of them. Such amps, even at slightly audible levels, they can't deliver a clean signal with good integrity. That is mainly what makes amps sound different. If you'd compare all amps while listening at 35-45db probably all would sound almost same. Then again, power is just a part of the equation of how amps will sound. How the signal processed in an amp plays also a big role. Output stage, power supply, chosen components, quality of components... everything plays a role in how much detail, soundstage etc. can an amp deliver.


----------



## tabness

I've read Stax marketing copy that suggests they tune their amps slightly differently?

Anyway, spent some of yesterday listening to the 009S on an interesting little amp, the Airbow 253S lol

It sounds very similar to the 353X as expected, but I did get it to I guess "distort" at high volumes, nothing I would listen to in real life. I'd do more comparisons with the 353X but I just sold the 009S so don't want to use it anymore of course. The little Airbow amp was intended for the Baby Stax 003 MK2 I have on the way, I guess I'm done with high end Stax for now, but still want that Stax sound from time to time.


----------



## 118900

elton7033 said:


> There's a whole thread in headcase where Spitzer comments on his own t8000 being overprice...lol
> https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/13002-stax-srm-t8000/
> and for what the second hand market is asking for for the t8000 I highly recommend people just go for a normal kgsshv non carbon or even a kgst.
> 
> What makes me laugh is since the 60s STAX have been using the same basic circuit design from SRM-1 Mk2 to SRM-3 to 313 to 323, 717/ 727 now t8000 and keep on changing the output stage and calling it another amp... where the base design are the same, its like how the Japanese still uses the F4 since the 60s and keep changing bits and parts to try to make it relevant...


Spritzer/Birgir is who I was referring to when I said "from what I have heard said"   .

As many point out Stax went bust and had to be saved due to costs (look at the development costs of the T2, which is basically the only amp "worthy" of the 007) so I can kind of understand why they use that business model in that there are plenty of people out there  who don't know about the DIY alternatives (I didn't when I purchase my first Stax 20 years ago) and want the assurance/guarantees that purchasing from the manufacturer can bring. And don't forget that for almost all ear speakers except the 007s the Stax amplification is more than acceptable.

Fortunately there is a cottage industry to satisfy the requirements of the others. You really have to take your hat off to people like Kevin Gilmore and Birgir for putting the time and effort into developing the alternatives.


----------



## bigjako (Jan 27, 2021)

I have a strange little technical question and I think this is the best place to ask it.  I have a step-up transformer for my 006t, and a step-down transformer for my Jecklins. If I were to get an ED-1 or the Transdyn 2, I would need to either get a 2nd step-up (or down) transformer, or (I think) I could just get a power strip and plug that into the Transformer, with the two 100v devices plugged into the power strip, which would be delivering the 100v (or 230v) power to the devices.

Is there any issue using a single step-up transformer to feed into a power strip with 2+ devices plugged into the power strip?

Edit: I'm also looking at multi-outlet step-up/step-down transformers and came across a lot that are 110v/220v output but none that are 100v/220v.  My 006 stepup outputs 100v, but are Stax 100v compatible with 110v?


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

bigjako said:


> I have a strange little technical question and I think this is the best place to ask it.  I have a step-up transformer for my 006t, and a step-down transformer for my Jecklins. If I were to get an ED-1 or the Transdyn 2, I would need to either get a 2nd step-up (or down) transformer, or (I think) I could just get a power strip and plug that into the Transformer, with the two 100v devices plugged into the power strip, which would be delivering the 100v (or 230v) power to the devices.
> 
> Is there any issue using a single step-up transformer to feed into a power strip with 2+ devices plugged into the power strip?
> 
> Edit: I'm also looking at multi-outlet step-up/step-down transformers and came across a lot that are 110v/220v output but none that are 100v/220v.  My 006 stepup outputs 100v, but are Stax 100v compatible with 110v?


I hope that I understood your question correctly but the ed-1 is switchable Voltage. All you need to do is take the back off and change where the arrow is positioned.


----------



## bigjako

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> I hope that I understood your question correctly but the ed-1 is switchable Voltage. All you need to do is take the back off and change where the arrow is positioned.


Ok, that helps a lot - thank you.  It saves me from needing to get a second 100v step-down transformer if I do get an ED-1. The problem still applies for me in terms of finding a Step-Up/Step Down that supports 100v and 220v outputs, particularly with 2+ outlets.

All the ones I can find are like this: https://www.amazon.com/Transformer-...p+down+transformer+220v&qid=1611784596&sr=8-7, with 110v and 220v outputs.  None are 100v and 220v outputs.  

110v is weird to me, too - it's not 100v for Japan nor is it 120v for North America, so I wonder if its designed to semi-work with both?  or could I use plug splitter to connect two devices to one outlet?


----------



## chocolates

you can generally use within 10v of acceptable range. if you've got a multimeter you can get the exact voltage (for example, my apartment's actually 110v, not 120v)


----------



## pspentax (Jan 28, 2021)

bigjako said:


> Ok, that helps a lot - thank you.  It saves me from needing to get a second 100v step-down transformer if I do get an ED-1. The problem still applies for me in terms of finding a Step-Up/Step Down that supports 100v and 220v outputs, particularly with 2+ outlets.
> 
> All the ones I can find are like this: https://www.amazon.com/Transformer-...p+down+transformer+220v&qid=1611784596&sr=8-7, with 110v and 220v outputs.  None are 100v and 220v outputs.
> 
> 110v is weird to me, too - it's not 100v for Japan nor is it 120v for North America, so I wonder if its designed to semi-work with both?  or could I use plug splitter to connect two devices to one outlet?



In the old times it was 110V insisted of 115/120V and in Europe it was 220V and now is 230/240V.


----------



## pspentax

Let’s enjoy some music 🎶


----------



## elton7033

pspentax said:


> In the old times it was 110V insisted of 115/120V and in Europe it was 220V and now is 230/240V.


I know this is off topic but I wonder is there a particular reason that they increase the voltage? So all old electric appliances will blow eventually if plug directly to grid? Or fuse will keep on blowing?lol


----------



## bigjako

elton7033 said:


> I know this is off topic but I wonder is there a particular reason that they increase the voltage? So all old electric appliances will blow eventually if plug directly to grid? Or fuse will keep on blowing?lol


In my research to find a 100v and seeing whether 110v outputs would work with a 100v device, the best explanation I found was that in North America in the 40s and 50s, it was 100v, just like Japan.  But as houses got the 220v washer/dryer connections, it was easier to split that in two, hence 110v.  Something similar for 235 being split into 117, too.  How's that for a vague half-answer?

I've decided to give up on a magical step-up/down transformer that would work for both 230v and 100v devices.


----------



## streamenterer

pspentax said:


> Let’s enjoy some music 🎶


Awesome looking system! What's the turntable/tonearms/carts? And what amp are you using w/the 007s?


----------



## pspentax

streamenterer said:


> Awesome looking system! What's the turntable/tonearms/carts? And what amp are you using w/the 007s?


I will play with 700S and T8000.
The turntable is a Pluto Audio and one of the arms is also from Pluto Audio and the other is a Dynavector 507, the cartridges are Air tight/Benz.
But at this moment is not 100% assembled it still need the motor, power supply and support... it will be something like this 😉


----------



## AlexmodNew

BTW if any interested. I find appropriate head band to made a look of *SR-009* model more modern and exiting. Here is:

 

I used a head band from *Harman\Kardon CL* folding headphones. It is made from metal\leather and have a paint wich looks similar to stock anodizing of SR-009 cups. Moreover, HK CL equipped with 2  (two) detuchable headbands for small and big heads, so anybody can choose one that suit his head.
Some cuts, driil, threading  and good looking at the end   Now it looks even better than* SR-007*
Because of very light weight of new headband, total weight of the headphones wasnt changed.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6 (Jan 28, 2021)

AlexmodNew said:


> BTW if any interested. I find appropriate head band to made a look of *SR-009* model more modern and exiting. Here is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry but the 009 will never look as handsome as the 007. However, I admit that headband is a cool upgrade from the stock plastic one. I just hope that the clamp is right. . . . 

You should figure out a way to sand off, or paint over, that Harman logo though.


----------



## AlexmodNew (Jan 28, 2021)

Metal strip can be bended so I can adjust how tight it sits on my head. As about logo nevermind. Only spiders sitting on a ceiling can see it )
Now construction of the headband same as used in 007. That is what I meant
Which one is more cool depends from the personal taste


----------



## elton7033

AlexmodNew said:


> Metal strip can be bended so I can adjust how tight it sits on my head. As about logo nevermind. Only spiders sitting on a ceiling can see it )
> Now construction of the headband same as used in 007. That is what I meant
> Which one is more cool depends from the personal taste


what you have spiders on your ceiling? ww
by the way why didn't you get the white version but the black one? the white one will stand out more.


----------



## chocolates

looks nice! i do think it'd be nice to sand off the logo though 

i'm partial to the SR-007 champagne but the SR-009 does have that modern charm imo


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

chocolates said:


> looks nice! i do think it'd be nice to sand off the logo though
> 
> i'm partial to the SR-007 champagne but the SR-009 does have that modern charm imo


The 007A Silver on black is timeless.


----------



## simomat

Hi everyone,
I found one of the rivets of my 009 holding the speaker is dislodged. I tried to push it back in gently but it didn't work. Do you know if it just needs to be pushed back in with force or is it screwed?


----------



## Tarttett

@Lord Rexter 

Hi.

I have discovered, from a picture that you had recently shared within a different thread, that you own a set of the SR-009s, together with a set of the SR-009BKs. I am interested to know what differences there might be between those two models, aside from their appearance.

Would you be able to explain how you think they compare to each other, regarding their sound?


----------



## Tarttett (Jan 29, 2021)

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> The 007A Silver on black is timeless.


I am not certain of which aesthetic design is the more "timeless" one, but I certainly prefer the appearance of the original SR-007 model, with that brown leather that that model possesses.


6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> Sorry but the 009 will never look as handsome as the 007.


I am not certain of whether I prefer the appearance of the SR-007s, or the appearance of the SR-009s, however.


pspentax said:


> Let’s enjoy some music 🎶


Speaking of appearance: It appears that your fingers, and wrist, are a lot stronger than mine are, @pspentax.


----------



## pspentax

Tarttett said:


> Speaking of appearance: It appears that your fingers, and wrist, are a lot stronger than mine are, @pspentax.



Maybe 🤣


----------



## DesignTaylor

Fresh delivery from HK! Will share some feedback once I've had some more on-ear time with them.


----------



## protoss

@DesignTaylor Nice! Speak on the soundstage if you can   Im curious if its as large as the Omega.


----------



## elton7033

Tarttett said:


> @Lord Rexter
> 
> Hi.
> 
> ...


SR009 and SR009BK should sound identical but the BK is black and with 80th anv marking?


----------



## Mach3

I can assure you the SR009 and SR009BK don't sound the same out of the same energizer. 
Lord Rexter has both and Spritzer can confirm this too. SR009BK is the one to get in my opinion.


----------



## Tugbars

Spritzer's 009's rankings:

009BK > 009S > 009.


----------



## Rossliew

DesignTaylor said:


> Fresh delivery from HK! Will share some feedback once I've had some more on-ear time with them.



Very curious to read your impressions on this.


----------



## pspentax

Let’s do some tests to the 252S and maybe some 🔥🔥🔥 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Mach3

Tugbars said:


> Spritzer's 009's rankings:
> 
> 009BK > 009S > 009.



I think Stax stuffed up on the marketing on the 009BK. Surprise to see there a few store that still sell them.
Despite them being the same price as the 009 before they discontinue them.
Considering there only 180 of them show that very very niche market for electrostatic (still a lot of people don't know the technology exist)


----------



## pspentax

After some tests the evolution is amazing.
The improvements in micro detail, clarity separation and widened soundstage are amazing.
The scale, impact and the extension of the base is crazy.
I’m felling the air from the drivers in my hair 🤣 with the L300
It’s like listening from an hi-end loudspeakers system 🔥🔥🔥


----------



## Not Deaf

Does anybody know if STAX will be further updating their SR00 lineup or releasing anything new soon or is it safe to jump to the SR00 lineup in at this time?


----------



## catscratch

They're working on a new Omega series headphone, but when that will be released is anybody's guess. Stax are generally not forthcoming with information so you'll never know if it's a good time or not, and you might as well just jump in now. Also, they hold their value fairly well so you can always resell, assuming you take care of them.


----------



## Not Deaf

catscratch said:


> They're working on a new Omega series headphone, but when that will be released is anybody's guess. Stax are generally not forthcoming with information so you'll never know if it's a good time or not, and you might as well just jump in now. Also, they hold their value fairly well so you can always resell, assuming you take care of them.



Is there any information on what they will sound like, look like, price, etc.?


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## catscratch

None that I'm aware of. All we have is a video from Edifier confirming that they're working on it.


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## Not Deaf (Jan 31, 2021)

catscratch said:


> None that I'm aware of. All we have is a video from Edifier confirming that they're working on it.



Thanks for the info! For those who have heard the KGSSHV and KGSSHV Carbon, can you compare how they sound and if it is worth it to spend the extra for either the 007 or 009?


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## 118900

Not Deaf said:


> Thanks for the info! For those who have heard the KGSSHV and KGSSHV Carbon how they compare in sound and if it is worth it to spend the extra for either the 007 or 009?


Possibly


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## elton7033

Not Deaf said:


> Thanks for the info! For those who have heard the KGSSHV and KGSSHV Carbon, can you compare how they sound and if it is worth it to spend the extra for either the 007 or 009?


I have both the carbon and normal kgss and they are totally different amp. although they share the same kgss name the carbon have double the power of the normal one and the carbon’s SiC FET output simulate the effect of triodes where it give a quite different sound compare to the normal one.


----------



## Not Deaf

elton7033 said:


> I have both the carbon and normal kgss and they are totally different amp. although they share the same kgss name the carbon have double the power of the normal one and the carbon’s SiC FET output simulate the effect of triodes where it give a quite different sound compare to the normal one.


I thought they were both 400V output? Can you elaborate on how the sounds compare to one another?


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## VandyMan

Tugbars said:


> Spritzer's 009's rankings:
> 
> 009BK > 009S > 009.




STAX of course says that the 009 and 009BK are identical. I can't imagine why they would say that if it was not true, since they would sell more if it was different. Perhaps what Spitzer is really hearing is the variability in the manufacturing.


----------



## chocolates

hey friends, do we know at what humidity electrostats start to risk damage and what we can do to prevent it?


----------



## 118900

chocolates said:


> hey friends, do we know at what humidity electrostats start to risk damage and what we can do to prevent it?


Use a silica gel bag when you store them. If they don’t have a case or box already you can purchase one or even put them in a good plastic bag with a silica gel bag inside


----------



## Moak

One question:
which is the best as „second“ -place amps: 

STAX SRM-XH, SRD-X Pro or a SRM-310?


----------



## Not Deaf

Anyone else have input from the KGSSHV vs Carbon? It’s so tough deciding on Stax stuff when you can’t hear anything before you buy!


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## 118900 (Feb 1, 2021)

Not Deaf said:


> Anyone else have input from the KGSSHV vs Carbon? It’s so tough deciding on Stax stuff when you can’t hear anything before you buy!


The problem is that no one can really give you an answer to such a subjective question. 

Is the carbon better than the kgsshv? Sure. Is it worth buying? Depends on the price, how much you are personally willing to spend and what your subjective appreciation of the difference between the two is. 

When I first answered “maybe” to your initial question it wasn’t to be facetious but to indicate that the only person that can answer that is you. Yes it is difficult to make a decision without hearing them for yourself but the problem is most others can’t answer the question for you either. 

The general consensus is that the kghvss is great (it was already great in its first iteration and has now reached the fourth I believe) but the carbon is even better. A lot of people say that it’s certainly not a night and day difference but definitely noticeable and worth getting if you can justify the extra cost. 

And there lies the problem, only you can justify that based on the points I made at the beginning of my post. 

If it’s any help, every comment I have read from people that have had both was that they were very happy with the kgsshv but that the money spent on changing up to the carbon was also worth it. 

Personally I was very lucky and managed to buy the equivalent of the kgsshv for considerably less than $2k which I love but If I had had to pay 70% of the price of a carbon for a kgsshv I would have paid the extra and would have gone straight for the carbon.


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## Trance_Gott (Feb 1, 2021)

I had a lot of TOTL headphones and sold all of them. In the end I was disappointed with all of them. Only my SR007 SZ2xxx bass port mod and SR009 stays here along with my KGSShv Carbon. No LCD4, no RAD0, no Abyss 1266 TC, no Utopia has something the Stax duo not have.


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## Deolum (Feb 3, 2021)

What do you think of SR007 Mk1 with SRM 007 TII or SRM 717? Could get them used for an okay price.

Another option would be the Jade 2 + Amp.

Would like to add an estat since i like fast headphones like K702 or Utopia.


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## thinker (Feb 3, 2021)

Sound comparisons with Phenomenon Carbon, Mjölnir Carbon and new Stax amp SRM-700S with Stax SR-009S phones tested with Luxman D10X MQA DSD files etc. and siltech cables

Phenomenon Carbon- the fan noise inside the amp made me almost mad, otherwise it's more musical, smoother but with similar soundstage than Mjölnir Carbon

Mjölnir Carbon-  average "distant" mids, less soundstage than Stax 700S and Phenomenon, is sometimes almost strident or harsh, almost sounds like it would have artificial dynamics.The Mjölnir Carbon is another amp with SR-007 headphone but that is another topic

Stax -700S  is huge step up from earlier 717 etc models wich had almost smeared mids.Very wide soundstage, is very detailed in natural way ,excellent positioning of instruments,has good dynamics and relaxed natural overall sound.I would call SRM-700S a perfect match for SR-009S


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## elton7033

thinker said:


> Sound comparisons with Phenomenon Carbon, Mjölnir Carbon and new Stax amp SRM-700S with Stax SR-009S phones tested with Luxman D10X MQA DSD files etc. and siltech cables
> 
> Phenomenon Carbon- the fan noise inside the amp made me almost mad, otherwise it's more musical, smoother but with similar soundstage than Mjölnir Carbon
> 
> ...


ahhhhhh i like that D10X 
I was looking to get one to replace my D08 but it was nearly double the price.....


----------



## elton7033

Deolum said:


> What do you think of SR007 Mk1 with SRM 007 TII or SRM 717? Could get them used for an okay price.
> 
> Another option would be the Jade 2 + Amp.
> 
> Would like to add an estat since i like fast headphones like K702 or Utopia.


SR007Mk1 depends on what amp you will be using, 717/727/007t are alright but you will need a higher amp to unleash the full potential of the headphone, the 007 scale up very well with amp like the WES/KGSS/KGSShv/KGST/BHSE/Carbon and they can be quite different. But what do you mean by okay price? 007MK1 plus a 717 will go around at least 2000usd depends on condition and location...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/STAX-SRM-0...224589?hash=item48f6db7c0d:g:QzYAAOSwZeBf~lmc

Don't even consider Hifiman, their build quality are crap you and you are most likely to end up with channel imbalance with less than a year, and broken driver/ ear pads flaking are common. Its SQ wasn't great as well, they dose not sound electrostatic and are definitely worst than the Utopia. Their HE1000v2 and Susvara sounds much better in my opinion, but still lots to criticise. Not to mention they have copied the legendary R10...


----------



## AudioThief

Deolum said:


> What do you think of SR007 Mk1 with SRM 007 TII or SRM 717? Could get them used for an okay price.
> 
> Another option would be the Jade 2 + Amp.
> 
> Would like to add an estat since i like fast headphones like K702 or Utopia.



Get the 007 with the 717 or 727. While there is definitely a need for power as far as the 007 goes, the 717/727 has enough. The generic message for anyone wanting a 007 is that they "must" get a carbon/bhse, but having owned the 007 with the 727 I don't believe that is the case. I'm not going to bother arguing about how truthful it is that the headphone gets better the more power you throw at it after reaching what it scientifically requires, but I'll tell you that it sounded amazing out of a 727.

If it were true that you do in fact "need" a carbon/bhse for the 007, I'd say go for another pair of headphones. Maybe the 009 or lambdas.


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6 (Feb 3, 2021)

elton7033 said:


> SR007Mk1 depends on what amp you will be using, 717/727/007t are alright but you will need a higher amp to unleash the full potential of the headphone, the 007 scale up very well with amp like the WES/KGSS/KGSShv/KGST/BHSE/Carbon and they can be quite different. But what do you mean by okay price? 007MK1 plus a 717 will go around at least 2000usd depends on condition and location...
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/STAX-SRM-0...224589?hash=item48f6db7c0d:g:QzYAAOSwZeBf~lmc
> 
> Don't even consider Hifiman, their build quality are crap you and you are most likely to end up with channel imbalance with less than a year, and broken driver/ ear pads flaking are common. Its SQ wasn't great as well, they dose not sound electrostatic and are definitely worst than the Utopia. Their HE1000v2 and Susvara sounds much better in my opinion, but still lots to criticise. Not to mention they have copied the legendary R10...


I find it interesting that people often overlook the 353X since it is considerably more powerful than the 007T and doesn't have the strange tonality of the 727. It's a very clean and neutral sounding unit.


----------



## paradoxper

Not Deaf said:


> Anyone else have input from the KGSSHV vs Carbon? It’s so tough deciding on Stax stuff when you can’t hear anything before you buy!


It might better serve if you clarified what direction you may be leaning towards.

If I were keeping the L700 and planning for the 009 in the future, I'd opt for the KGSSHV 450v. I feel the more warmth is a little better match.

But you're generally flying blind not exactly sharing your preferences or what the rest of your chain may be.


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## elton7033 (Feb 3, 2021)

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> I find it interesting that people often overlook the 353X since it is considerably more powerful than the 007T and doesn't have the strange tonality of the 727. It's a very clean and neutral sounding unit.


Please don't misunderstand me, I like the 353X a lot for its price but sometime it can be unforgiving as well lacking the detail and extension which other amp can provide. It have a great balance sound but it doesn't bring out particular range like for example make the vocal more up front as well. The 007t will add extra warmth to make everything seems darker but I guess this is like comparing water to wine lol


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## elton7033 (Feb 4, 2021)

AudioThief said:


> Get the 007 with the 717 or 727. While there is definitely a need for power as far as the 007 goes, the 717/727 has enough. The generic message for anyone wanting a 007 is that they "must" get a carbon/bhse, but having owned the 007 with the 727 I don't believe that is the case. I'm not going to bother arguing about how truthful it is that the headphone gets better the more power you throw at it after reaching what it scientifically requires, but I'll tell you that it sounded amazing out of a 727.
> 
> If it were true that you do in fact "need" a carbon/bhse for the 007, I'd say go for another pair of headphones. Maybe the 009 or lambdas.



By the end of the day what's matter is personal satisfaction. I am not saying the 727 is not good enough, I really shouldn't since I am currently selling my 727 on for sale forum.

I start with the 727 as my first electrostatic amp, but after I tried and purchase my BHSE, KGSShv and now the Carbon I can feel the improvement of SQ with the 007 more than my 009 or 404LE. When I AB compare the same headphone on different amp they all sounded different to my ears.

Things always get complicated when it comes to personal preference as we all paid our money that we earn very hard for something that we like, so is very hard to be not subjective...but for me the answer for this is fairly simple, if someone only have a certain amount of budget to follow I will advise them to go for something within his affordability but if someone could afford more and are happy to try then why not?

I am sure that some might think the Carbon is a better amp but I still believe the BHSE are better match with 007 but Carbon is better with 009. The 727 might be inferior but it sure can bring out the general tonality of the headphone.


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## AlexmodNew (Feb 4, 2021)

Well. I did some repair with my second-handed *Stax SR-007*. It is _mkI_ version, signed as Z1-xxx

Because it is about 25 years old, some problem with cable contact near the cups occured in past.. Previous owner(s) tryed to repair it but it looks unreliable and ugly with the help of some heat-shrink tube used there. Because it is mkI version it use old type of cable sockets, which fasten the cable in the cups. On mkII version this part was changed to new one, which looks exactly like SR-009 part. Now this type of cable (old type) unavailable to buying, so good estetic repair seems impossible.

That is the reason for me to made design and 3D printing for that parts to perform repair. Just cut-off the problem part of the cable near the cups, dissect it to 3 wires, solder and use glue for new printed parts. Here is what I have at the end.
Here is new sockets for repairing a STAX SR-007 cable (old type aka mkI)
Keep informed


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## chocolates

been thinking of doing a similar sort of recabling, but my issue isn't that bad - just cuts out if you pull. not sure if it's possible to add some sort of strain relief after the fact since the connection there really doesn't do anything of the sort...


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## AudioThief

elton7033 said:


> By the end of the day what's matter is personal satisfaction. I am not saying the 727 is not good enough, I really shouldn't since I am currently selling my 727 on for sale forum.
> 
> I start with the 727 as my first electrostatic amp, but after I tried and purchase my BHSE, KGSShv and now the Carbon I can feel the improvement of SQ with the 007 more than my 009 or 404LE. When I AB compare the same headphone on different amp they all sounded different to my ears.
> 
> ...



Audio is a personal journey either way - science can never tell us what we personally experience. With that being said, I think a dose of healthy skepticism is a good idea when throwing around thousands of dollars. With that being said, the 007 and 009 are truly the end station as far as headphones goes, and so maxing out every single part of the equation makes sense to me. This is equipment you might own for 30+ years. But having been the victim of severe upgraditis, I think its a good idea to take a step back and truly assess what sound differences are available in upgrading an amplifier that already sufficiently powers a pair of, granted, electrostatic headphones.

As you said, it brings out the "general tonality" - in my opinion I think it brings out the exact sound signature, and any changes in signature will surely be completely subjective. Either way you look at it, if he springs for the 007 and 727 and doesn't like the sound signature - it is very likely that a pair of 009s or lambdas will be a better and cheaper remedy than getting the Carbon/BHSE. My evaluation of the 007 (mk1s) were that they are the single most technically impressive headphones I've ever heard - however the sound signature just wasn't for my ears. Not that I didn't like listening to them - I loved it. But it will never have the edge that the lambdas or 009s have. I am sure you can agree that no matter what you plug the 007s to, it will never sound as edgy as a pair of 009s into a solid state. So I guess that is the takeaway here - yes, the 007 are incredible headphones - but they have a different sound signature than other Stax, and if that sound signature isn't for you, spending 6000$ on an amplifier won't change the signature.


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## AlexmodNew (Feb 4, 2021)

I cannot understand why anybody doesnt use EQ to correct sound of any es headphones to your own taste?
It is easy to perform, it is simple to have a ruller-flat response  if you use correction from trusted source like that:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/h0zyfb49e1yf241/Stax SR-007 mk1.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3tfl27gzlf6mzl6/Stax SR-009.pdf?dl=0

ES headphones can be corrected flawlessly becase have almost no distortion throu the spectrum, even at low frequency it is very low. It is much more simple than for dynamic headphones, which have many resonanse issue based fluctuances on FR. Just avoid to made high boost setting - thats all.
Even more you can turn it OFF at any time too.
And it cost almost nothing..


----------



## Aurosonic

I've been using a convolution filter in Roon with my SR-007's for a couple weeks now. I much prefer the sound with equalization, and I normally don't like DSP.


----------



## elton7033

Here is the dirty secret I don’t have roon and I am find with the house tuning of the sr007/009 but i guest I should try


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6 (Feb 4, 2021)

elton7033 said:


> Please don't misunderstand me, I like the 353X a lot for its price but sometime it can be unforgiving as well lacking the detail and extension which other amp can provide. It have a great balance sound but it doesn't bring out particular range like for example make the vocal more up front as well. The 007t will add extra warmth to make everything seems darker but I guess this is like comparing water to wine lol


Well, I've always been of the opinion that amps should sound as neutral as possible but if someone is trying to bring the vocals forward or add a bit of warmth to their headphones that's fine. There is room for both philosophies in this hobby. The 353x could stand to be a touch more detailed though. 





AudioThief said:


> Audio is a personal journey either way - science can never tell us what we personally experience. With that being said, I think a dose of healthy skepticism is a good idea when throwing around thousands of dollars. With that being said, the 007 and 009 are truly the end station as far as headphones goes, and so maxing out every single part of the equation makes sense to me. This is equipment you might own for 30+ years. But having been the victim of severe upgraditis, I think its a good idea to take a step back and truly assess what sound differences are available in upgrading an amplifier that already sufficiently powers a pair of, granted, electrostatic headphones.
> 
> As you said, it brings out the "general tonality" - in my opinion I think it brings out the exact sound signature, and any changes in signature will surely be completely subjective. Either way you look at it, if he springs for the 007 and 727 and doesn't like the sound signature - it is very likely that a pair of 009s or lambdas will be a better and cheaper remedy than getting the Carbon/BHSE. My evaluation of the 007 (mk1s) were that they are the single most technically impressive headphones I've ever heard - however the sound signature just wasn't for my ears. Not that I didn't like listening to them - I loved it. But it will never have the edge that the lambdas or 009s have. I am sure you can agree that no matter what you plug the 007s to, it will never sound as edgy as a pair of 009s into a solid state. So I guess that is the takeaway here - yes, the 007 are incredible headphones - but they have a different sound signature than other Stax, and if that sound signature isn't for you, spending 6000$ on an amplifier won't change the signature.


Yeah, I really did try to love the 007s. I listened to them on multiple amps too. However, at the end of the day I just prefer the 009s no matter what they're plugged into. I'm planning on getting a set of 009S soon.


----------



## chocolates

AlexmodNew said:


> I cannot understand why anybody doesnt use EQ to correct sound of any es headphones to your own taste?
> It is easy to perform, it is simple to have a ruller-flat response  if you use correction from trusted source like that:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/h0zyfb49e1yf241/Stax SR-007 mk1.pdf?dl=0
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3tfl27gzlf6mzl6/Stax SR-009.pdf?dl=0
> ...


this is the play, though ideally you'd tweak it to your taste - especially bass (oratory mentions this)

unfortunately it's not always feasible to do so, since exclusive mode audio (DSD, tidal MQA, hqplayer, etc..) bypass the windows audio enhancements


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

chocolates said:


> this is the play, though ideally you'd tweak it to your taste - especially bass (oratory mentions this)
> 
> unfortunately it's not always feasible to do so, since exclusive mode audio (DSD, tidal MQA, hqplayer, etc..) bypass the windows audio enhancements


Schiit Loki?


----------



## JLoud

I use a Loki with my Raal SR1A. Works well.


----------



## astromaddie

I have a question about the Stax tube amps... how do you know when to change the tubes? Is it purely volume based?


----------



## elton7033 (Feb 5, 2021)

AudioThief said:


> Audio is a personal journey either way - science can never tell us what we personally experience. With that being said, I think a dose of healthy skepticism is a good idea when throwing around thousands of dollars. With that being said, the 007 and 009 are truly the end station as far as headphones goes, and so maxing out every single part of the equation makes sense to me. This is equipment you might own for 30+ years. But having been the victim of severe upgraditis, I think its a good idea to take a step back and truly assess what sound differences are available in upgrading an amplifier that already sufficiently powers a pair of, granted, electrostatic headphones.
> 
> As you said, it brings out the "general tonality" - in my opinion I think it brings out the exact sound signature, and any changes in signature will surely be completely subjective. Either way you look at it, if he springs for the 007 and 727 and doesn't like the sound signature - it is very likely that a pair of 009s or lambdas will be a better and cheaper remedy than getting the Carbon/BHSE. My evaluation of the 007 (mk1s) were that they are the single most technically impressive headphones I've ever heard - however the sound signature just wasn't for my ears. Not that I didn't like listening to them - I loved it. But it will never have the edge that the lambdas or 009s have. I am sure you can agree that no matter what you plug the 007s to, it will never sound as edgy as a pair of 009s into a solid state. So I guess that is the takeaway here - yes, the 007 are incredible headphones - but they have a different sound signature than other Stax, and if that sound signature isn't for you, spending 6000$ on an amplifier won't change the signature.


if someone don't like the 007 in general they should forget about the amping problem and just jump towards to the SR009/BK/S or even L700 or get both of them(009+L700) with the price of a Carbon/BHSE.


----------



## 118900

AudioThief said:


> Audio is a personal journey either way - science can never tell us what we personally experience. With that being said, I think a dose of healthy skepticism is a good idea when throwing around thousands of dollars. With that being said, the 007 and 009 are truly the end station as far as headphones goes, and so maxing out every single part of the equation makes sense to me. This is equipment you might own for 30+ years. But having been the victim of severe upgraditis, I think its a good idea to take a step back and truly assess what sound differences are available in upgrading an amplifier that already sufficiently powers a pair of, granted, electrostatic headphones.
> 
> As you said, it brings out the "general tonality" - in my opinion I think it brings out the exact sound signature, and any changes in signature will surely be completely subjective. Either way you look at it, if he springs for the 007 and 727 and doesn't like the sound signature - it is very likely that a pair of 009s or lambdas will be a better and cheaper remedy than getting the Carbon/BHSE. My evaluation of the 007 (mk1s) were that they are the single most technically impressive headphones I've ever heard - however the sound signature just wasn't for my ears. Not that I didn't like listening to them - I loved it. But it will never have the edge that the lambdas or 009s have. I am sure you can agree that no matter what you plug the 007s to, it will never sound as edgy as a pair of 009s into a solid state. So I guess that is the takeaway here - yes, the 007 are incredible headphones - but they have a different sound signature than other Stax, and if that sound signature isn't for you, spending 6000$ on an amplifier won't change the signature.


I cannot speak from personal experience but from everything I have read here, on other forums and even from spritzer himself changing amplifier for the 007s can make a dramatic difference.

maybe past a certain level, say from KGSSHV to carbon, the law of diminishing returns really starts to bite and the changes are no longer night and day, but in the vast majority of cases I have read about the problem is that some amplifiers simply don’t have the technical capability to run the 007s properly, let alone to their limits, therefore they have a major impact on the sound signature.

If the amplifier is “choking” the HPs too much it will give a false impression of the sound signature of the HPs themselves.


----------



## AudioThief

juansan said:


> I cannot speak from personal experience but from everything I have read here, on other forums and even from spritzer himself changing amplifier for the 007s can make a dramatic difference.
> 
> maybe past a certain level, say from KGSSHV to carbon, the law of diminishing returns really starts to bite and the changes are no longer night and day, but in the vast majority of cases I have read about the problem is that some amplifiers simply don’t have the technical capability to run the 007s properly, let alone to their limits, therefore they have a major impact on the sound signature.
> 
> If the amplifier is “choking” the HPs too much it will give a false impression of the sound signature of the HPs themselves.



Yes, I am aware of the Stax mafia stance on this topic, and I am actively trying to counter act it. Because I believe many people have thrown money at an amplifier to "fix" the 007, when the reality is that the 007 sounds like the 007 out of a 727 or 717. I'm not going to discuss whether or not it sounds "better" or even "different" out of a carbon or bhse, but if an amplifier has enough power to drive the headphone (as is the case with the 727 for the 007), then throwing more power at it won't change the sound signature. If anything, that would only happen at excrutiatingly high volumes - above listening levels in the case of the 727. 

So my point is simply that while the Stax mafia may promise gold, glory, the golden pot at the end of the rainbow - the holy grail if you just get the carbon... The reality of the situation is that if you want a different sound... Get a 009 or a lambda. The "technical" aspects of the headphones at this point is so close that sound signature is a lot more important than the difference in "detail". 

Remember, we can always imagine our headphones sounding better or different. The guys who have a Carbon start thinking about getting a T2 DIY because then that becomes the holy grail and so on. Its a dangerous addiciton that in my eyes is not based in reality. A 007 + 727 is a fantastic combination for those who like a full bodied, relaxed presentation that is great for long listening sessions and a wide range of music. For those who wants to listen to music more "bent forward" in their seat, the 009s or lambdas will be a better fit. No matter what amp you throw at the 007.


----------



## buzzlulu

I guess it all boils down to what you like.  I did not like a demo pair of 007's which I recently had - even when played with my Carbon.


----------



## 118900

buzzlulu said:


> I guess it all boils down to what you like.  I did not like a demo pair of 007's which I recently had - even when played with my Carbon.


What I am saying is that if you listen to the 007s from an amplifier capable of driving them and you don’t like the sound signature, that is one thing.  

but that isn’t the same as not liking the sound signature because they aren’t powered properly and therefore the effect is conditioned by the amplifier and not the HPs themselves.

You wouldn’t judge the handling of a thorough-bred sports car on a track using utilitarian car tyres (which isn’t the case you mention, but just to better explain what I meant).


----------



## Tugbars (Feb 5, 2021)

some people write too many words for "I can't justify paying 5k$ for an amp" Some headphones are asking for a lot of clean power, that doesn't have anything to do with whether you like those headphones or not. Because 007 asks a lot of power, It doesn't mean that I'd upgrade my Carbon to T2 next month too. Don't think we are happy because we had to pay 5k$ for an amp to make our headphones sound right. I wish they'd sound right with 727A too. They just don't. 007's just sound wrong with 727A or 717 or 007t in average listening volumes. Or better to say: There are better headphones out there which sound better and cheaper than 007 If you'll pair it with 727A.   A lot of people who have Carbon here confirmed that, I experienced that too. Denying these facts may confuse people who are reading this forum and then they'll buy 2100$ headphones, pay 2500$ or whatever for 727A and they might not like that combo in the end and waste a lot of money. Also you don't have to pay 5k$ or 6k$ for Carbon, You can buy a DIY carbon for 2500-3000$ from EU or Hong Kong, they sound just right. Second hands go for even cheaper. Mjolnir Carbon is slightly more detailed, less harsh and have better midrange-treble tonality aka less bright.




That's how It looks like inside. This particular one uses KG 0.64 boards If I recall right.

If you are curious why electrostatic headphones need huge amps and some ask for a lot of power, there is a fantastic article written by JimL in that "other forum". Title is:  "Output Stage Current Requirements for Electrostatic Headphone Amps" Enjoy.


----------



## 118900

AudioThief said:


> Yes, I am aware of the Stax mafia stance on this topic, and I am actively trying to counter act it. Because I believe many people have thrown money at an amplifier to "fix" the 007, when the reality is that the 007 sounds like the 007 out of a 727 or 717. I'm not going to discuss whether or not it sounds "better" or even "different" out of a carbon or bhse, but if an amplifier has enough power to drive the headphone (as is the case with the 727 for the 007), then throwing more power at it won't change the sound signature. If anything, that would only happen at excrutiatingly high volumes - above listening levels in the case of the 727.
> 
> So my point is simply that while the Stax mafia may promise gold, glory, the golden pot at the end of the rainbow - the holy grail if you just get the carbon... The reality of the situation is that if you want a different sound... Get a 009 or a lambda. The "technical" aspects of the headphones at this point is so close that sound signature is a lot more important than the difference in "detail".
> 
> Remember, we can always imagine our headphones sounding better or different. The guys who have a Carbon start thinking about getting a T2 DIY because then that becomes the holy grail and so on. Its a dangerous addiciton that in my eyes is not based in reality. A 007 + 727 is a fantastic combination for those who like a full bodied, relaxed presentation that is great for long listening sessions and a wide range of music. For those who wants to listen to music more "bent forward" in their seat, the 009s or lambdas will be a better fit. No matter what amp you throw at the 007.


Again I cannot comment from experience but I have read (for the past 15 odd years) that the original Omegas and their replacements have always had difficulties in being driven correctly and that the 717 and some others (without adequate CCS modification) are merely an acceptable start (hence the development of the original Stax T2).

as I mentioned in another post i think an analogy would be that driving the 007s is akin to driving a Ferrari. Once you reach the correct tyre size, different compounds and brands can give different results and feels but they all “work” whereas using tyres that are far too small/narrow will allow you to drive the car but it will be far from reaching its full potential or handling as it should at the extremes.

If and when I upgrade from my set up I will be more than glad to give my own first-hand impressions


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## 118900

Tugbars said:


> some people write too many words for "I can't justify paying 5k$ for an amp" Some headphones are asking for a lot of clean power, that doesn't have anything to do with whether you like those headphones or not. Because 007 asks a lot of power, It doesn't mean that I'd upgrade my Carbon to T2 next month too. Don't think we are happy because we had to pay 5k$ for an amp to make our headphones sound right. I wish they'd sound right with 727A too. They just don't. 007's just sound wrong with 727A or 717 or 007t in average listening volumes. Or better to say: There are better headphones out there which sound better and cheaper than 007 If you'll pair it with 727A.   A lot of people who have Carbon here confirmed that, I experienced that too. Denying these facts may confuse people who are reading this forum and then they'll buy 2100$ headphones, pay 2500$ or whatever for 727A and they might not like that combo in the end and waste a lot of money. Also you don't have to pay 5k$ or 6k$ for Carbon, You can buy a DIY carbon for 2500-3000$ from EU or Hong Kong, they sound just right. Second hands go for even cheaper. Mjolnir Carbon is slightly more detailed, less harsh and have better midrange-treble tonality aka less bright.
> 
> That's how It looks like inside. This particular one uses KG 0.64 boards If I recall right.


Your experience matches what I have heard/read over the years.


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## elton7033

Tugbars said:


> some people write too many words for "I can't justify paying 5k$ for an amp" Some headphones are asking for a lot of clean power, that doesn't have anything to do with whether you like those headphones or not. Because 007 asks a lot of power, It doesn't mean that I'd upgrade my Carbon to T2 next month too. Don't think we are happy because we had to pay 5k$ for an amp to make our headphones sound right. I wish they'd sound right with 727A too. They just don't. 007's just sound wrong with 727A or 717 or 007t in average listening volumes. Or better to say: There are better headphones out there which sound better and cheaper than 007 If you'll pair it with 727A.   A lot of people who have Carbon here confirmed that, I experienced that too. Denying these facts may confuse people who are reading this forum and then they'll buy 2100$ headphones, pay 2500$ or whatever for 727A and they might not like that combo in the end and waste a lot of money. Also you don't have to pay 5k$ or 6k$ for Carbon, You can buy a DIY carbon for 2500-3000$ from EU or Hong Kong, they sound just right. Second hands go for even cheaper. Mjolnir Carbon is slightly more detailed, less harsh and have better midrange-treble tonality aka less bright.
> 
> That's how It looks like inside. This particular one uses KG 0.64 boards If I recall right.
> 
> If you are curious why electrostatic headphones need huge amps and some ask for a lot of power, there is a fantastic article written by JimL in that "other forum". Title is:  "Output Stage Current Requirements for Electrostatic Headphone Amps" Enjoy.


My Mjolnir Carbon looks a bit different inside I wonder why...the board are much smaller


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## Tugbars

That is not a Mjolnir Carbon that's why. That one was made in Hong Kong. I just wanted to show how DIY Carbon looks like inside.


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## AudioThief

Tugbars said:


> some people write too many words for "I can't justify paying 5k$ for an amp" Some headphones are asking for a lot of clean power, that doesn't have anything to do with whether you like those headphones or not. Because 007 asks a lot of power, It doesn't mean that I'd upgrade my Carbon to T2 next month too. Don't think we are happy because we had to pay 5k$ for an amp to make our headphones sound right. I wish they'd sound right with 727A too. They just don't. 007's just sound wrong with 727A or 717 or 007t in average listening volumes. Or better to say: There are better headphones out there which sound better and cheaper than 007 If you'll pair it with 727A.   A lot of people who have Carbon here confirmed that, I experienced that too. Denying these facts may confuse people who are reading this forum and then they'll buy 2100$ headphones, pay 2500$ or whatever for 727A and they might not like that combo in the end and waste a lot of money. Also you don't have to pay 5k$ or 6k$ for Carbon, You can buy a DIY carbon for 2500-3000$ from EU or Hong Kong, they sound just right. Second hands go for even cheaper. Mjolnir Carbon is slightly more detailed, less harsh and have better midrange-treble tonality aka less bright.
> 
> That's how It looks like inside. This particular one uses KG 0.64 boards If I recall right.
> 
> If you are curious why electrostatic headphones need huge amps and some ask for a lot of power, there is a fantastic article written by JimL in that "other forum". Title is:  "Output Stage Current Requirements for Electrostatic Headphone Amps" Enjoy.



I think your definition of "fact" is very different from mine. But we all know who gets banned if we keep having this conversation, so I'll quit. Anyone can make up their own mind about it. But you should consider the "fact" that people mean the T2 sound better than the Carbon, and unless you've heard it, that means it likely means even more power than the Carbon. So just remember, you're likely missing out.


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## paradoxper

Tugbars said:


> some people write too many words for "I can't justify paying 5k$ for an amp" Some headphones are asking for a lot of clean power, that doesn't have anything to do with whether you like those headphones or not. Because 007 asks a lot of power, It doesn't mean that I'd upgrade my Carbon to T2 next month too. Don't think we are happy because we had to pay 5k$ for an amp to make our headphones sound right. I wish they'd sound right with 727A too. They just don't. 007's just sound wrong with 727A or 717 or 007t in average listening volumes. Or better to say: There are better headphones out there which sound better and cheaper than 007 If you'll pair it with 727A.   A lot of people who have Carbon here confirmed that, I experienced that too. Denying these facts may confuse people who are reading this forum and then they'll buy 2100$ headphones, pay 2500$ or whatever for 727A and they might not like that combo in the end and waste a lot of money. Also you don't have to pay 5k$ or 6k$ for Carbon, You can buy a DIY carbon for 2500-3000$ from EU or Hong Kong, they sound just right. Second hands go for even cheaper. Mjolnir Carbon is slightly more detailed, less harsh and have better midrange-treble tonality aka less bright.
> 
> That's how It looks like inside. This particular one uses KG 0.64 boards If I recall right.
> 
> If you are curious why electrostatic headphones need huge amps and some ask for a lot of power, there is a fantastic article written by JimL in that "other forum". Title is:  "Output Stage Current Requirements for Electrostatic Headphone Amps" Enjoy.


I don't think it's the he can't justify the $5k amp thing but rather he hasn't heard the $5k amp thing and continues talking out of his ass.


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6 (Feb 5, 2021)

Tugbars said:


> some people write too many words for "I can't justify paying 5k$ for an amp" Some headphones are asking for a lot of clean power, that doesn't have anything to do with whether you like those headphones or not. Because 007 asks a lot of power, It doesn't mean that I'd upgrade my Carbon to T2 next month too. Don't think we are happy because we had to pay 5k$ for an amp to make our headphones sound right. I wish they'd sound right with 727A too. They just don't. 007's just sound wrong with 727A or 717 or 007t in average listening volumes. Or better to say: There are better headphones out there which sound better and cheaper than 007 If you'll pair it with 727A.   A lot of people who have Carbon here confirmed that, I experienced that too. Denying these facts may confuse people who are reading this forum and then they'll buy 2100$ headphones, pay 2500$ or whatever for 727A and they might not like that combo in the end and waste a lot of money. Also you don't have to pay 5k$ or 6k$ for Carbon, You can buy a DIY carbon for 2500-3000$ from EU or Hong Kong, they sound just right. Second hands go for even cheaper. Mjolnir Carbon is slightly more detailed, less harsh and have better midrange-treble tonality aka less bright.
> 
> That's how It looks like inside. This particular one uses KG 0.64 boards If I recall right.
> 
> If you are curious why electrostatic headphones need huge amps and some ask for a lot of power, there is a fantastic article written by JimL in that "other forum". Title is:  "Output Stage Current Requirements for Electrostatic Headphone Amps" Enjoy.


If a pair of headphones only sounds correct with 1 particular diy amp which just so happens to cost as much as a used car then that is the fault of the headphones, not the owner. For the record, I have tried the 007Mk.1s on many amps, including the BHSE, and they were not to my taste on any of them. If you're saying that the one and only headphone amp that works is the kgsshv/carbon well then the 007Mk.1s themselves are the problem. L700s and 009s are simply more enjoyable for me no matter what they're plugged into. Whether that be a 252S or a BHSE.


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6

The problem here is that when people get 007s and don't like them the Stax Mafia just tells them, "Oh, just spend $6K on an amp and you'll magically start to love them." No, they still sound like 007s.


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## Tugbars (Feb 5, 2021)

This conversation isn't about if 007 is worth the money or whether you like it or not. Just make sure to listen 007's with a proper amp before you buy. I use it with Carbon, I like it, good for me. If you didn't like it, good for you. BHSE is a bit too warm for 007(in my opinion), if you didn't like it get something else. Expect to get corrected though, if you have listened to it with 727A + 500$ dac and say "oh noes 007 sucks". Or if you say things like, "If you are buying 007, you don't need more than 727, 007 doesn't deserve better amp than that."  One last note: Trust me, Stax Mafia cares less about what we like than Stax cares about international market.


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6

Tugbars said:


> This conversation isn't about if 007 is worth the money or whether you like it or not. Just make sure to listen 007's with a proper amp before you buy. I use it with Carbon, I like it, good for me. If you didn't like it, good for you. BHSE is a bit too warm for 007(in my opinion), if you didn't like it get something else. Expect to get corrected though, if you have listened to it with 727A + 500$ dac and say "oh noes 007 sucks". Or if you say things like, "If you are buying 007, you don't need more than 727, 007 doesn't deserve better amp than that."  One last note: Trust me, Stax Mafia cares less about what we like than Stax cares about international market.


Well, this is the Stax thread. So yes, the conversation is about whether the 007s are good and worth the money actually. All conversations here should be about whether Stax are good and worth the money.


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## chocolates

i think the point being made is that the core tonality of the 007 isn't going to change and if one happens to not like it then no amount of clean power will change that, which isn't a very controversial take; i think you guys are kind of just arguing past each other. i like the 007 and i think i got gains worth the money upgrading to a KGSSHV Carbon (well, anything's better than the 252S) but i also think i'd prefer the 007 to the lambda even if the only amp i had access to was the underpowered 252S, but i can see why others would disagree on that point

but in other news, has anyone tried using the ED-1 with the SR-Lambda/signature?


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6

chocolates said:


> i think the point being made is that the core tonality of the 007 isn't going to change and if one happens to not like it then no amount of clean power will change that, which isn't a very controversial take; i think you guys are kind of just arguing past each other. i like the 007 and i think i got gains worth the money upgrading to a KGSSHV Carbon (well, anything's better than the 252S) but i also think i'd prefer the 007 to the lambda even if the only amp i had access to was the underpowered 252S, but i can see why others would disagree on that point
> 
> but in other news, has anyone tried using the ED-1 with the SR-Lambda/signature?


The sr-lambda signature has a completely different equalization unit. They both have one but they're not interchangeable. This is the unit for the lambda pro and this is the unit for the lambda signature: (My buddy owns the one for the signature and I own the one for the Pro.)


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6 (Feb 5, 2021)

It's confusing because they are both named "ed-1" but they are not the same unit. ED-1 Pro and ED-1 Sig. Unfortunately, the ed-1 signature is pretty much unobtainable. I don't think that many units were made.


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## Tugbars

chocolates said:


> i think the point being made is that the core tonality of the 007 isn't going to change and if one happens to not like it then no amount of clean power will change that, which isn't a very controversial take; i think you guys are kind of just arguing past each other. i like the 007 and i think i got gains worth the money upgrading to a KGSSHV Carbon (well, anything's better than the 252S) but i also think i'd prefer the 007 to the lambda even if the only amp i had access to was the underpowered 252S, but i can see why others would disagree on that point
> 
> but in other news, has anyone tried using the ED-1 with the SR-Lambda/signature?



Yes, you can't change 2-4khz recession of 007. That said, with better dacs, instead of sounding dark & lacking in detail, it will just sound *laid back*. Treble & bass  performances are however dependent to amplification. Treble extension of electrostatic headphones are related to current output of the amp. I don't know what effects bass performance, bass sounds different from one amp to another. Probably it has something to do how the signal is processed during amplification more than power & voltage swing or what not.


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## 118900 (Feb 5, 2021)

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> The problem here is that when people get 007s and don't like them the Stax Mafia just tells them, "Oh, just spend $6K on an amp and you'll magically start to love them." No, they still sound like 007s.


I spent considerably less than 2K on my amp and my 007s sound noticeably better (for my tastes) than the Audeze lcd-4z, both driven out of a chord hugo 2.

There is a distinct difference between somebody disliking a “sound signature” from properly driven HPs as opposed to disliking the sound from badly driven HPs.

and for what it’s worth I haven’t heard anyone say the kgsshv (diy about 2.5k USD) can’t drive the 007s, merely that the better amps sound better. Considering the cost of the higher end Stax amps I’m not sure that’s really such a big difference.

not to mention why Stax developed the T2


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## Audio Addict

I am new to the Stax world having just picked up the 009S in December being powered by an A-10 Thunderbolt II with a DirectStream DAC.  I have been amazed at what the Stax deliver.  I look forward to learning more from this thread.


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## number1sixerfan (Feb 5, 2021)

007 (early serial MK1 here) is absolutely worth the money. I think I paid $1400 for mine? I can't think of a single headphone that's better for the money. It's quite a bit different than the average Stax headphone, definitely fine if it isn't someone's cup of tea (as with any headphone imo). Also, it IS really hard to drive and DOES need a sufficient amp (I don't know why this has to be such a recurring conversation when it's just a fact lol).. and the 009 is also just better, in almost every regard.

All of these things can be true lol


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## AudioThief

number1sixerfan said:


> 007 (early serial MK1 here) is absolutely worth the money. I think I paid $1400 for mine? I can't think of a single headphone that's better for the money. It's quite a bit different than the average Stax headphone, definitely fine if it isn't someone's cup of tea (as with any headphone imo). Also, it IS really hard to drive and DOES need a sufficient amp (I don't know why this has to be such a recurring conversation when it's just a fact lol).. and the 009 is also just better, in almost every regard.
> 
> All of these things can be true lol



Nobody disagrees that the 007 needs power. The difference is that some people think it needs a 727 to power it sufficiently, while others believe you need a carbon/bhse or even a T2 DIY. It boils down to if you believe in physics, facts and science or the subjective opinion of the stax mafia. I know which I'm putting my money on. But anyone is free to do what they like with their money. Obviously subjective opinion will always be a major factor in deciding on gear - it is, even for me. But when it comes to magic amplifiers can do.. That's where I draw the line personally, and when it comes to the $$$ needed for the Carbon compared to the 727, I feel strongly that "this side" should be represented too, not just the standard "you need a Carbon to REALLY make em shine".


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## elton7033 (Feb 6, 2021)

AudioThief said:


> Nobody disagrees that the 007 needs power. The difference is that some people think it needs a 727 to power it sufficiently, while others believe you need a carbon/bhse or even a T2 DIY. It boils down to if you believe in physics, facts and science or the subjective opinion of the stax mafia. I know which I'm putting my money on. But anyone is free to do what they like with their money. Obviously subjective opinion will always be a major factor in deciding on gear - it is, even for me. But when it comes to magic amplifiers can do.. That's where I draw the line personally, and when it comes to the $$$ needed for the Carbon compared to the 727, I feel strongly that "this side" should be represented too, not just the standard "you need a Carbon to REALLY make em shine".


A light bub and the sun both shines, but depends on what the user are looking for one may appeal to certain group more. I guess no one is auguring that the 727 is a bad amp, but the T8000/WES/KGST/KGSS/KGSShv/BHSE/Carbon/T2 are just simply better. And there's no definite correct answer for hobby. At least for me if I am paying 10 of thousand on a hobby I better count all possible factor to get everything right, but again is just me.

This apply to other hobby like watches as well, some may prefer a looking at time on a iPhone, some may ware G-Shock and I like my Patek 2499, they might say that the time on iPhone are more accurate but as long as I am happy that's satisfaction.


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## 118900 (Feb 6, 2021)

AudioThief said:


> Nobody disagrees that the 007 needs power. The difference is that some people think it needs a 727 to power it sufficiently, while others believe you need a carbon/bhse or even a T2 DIY. It boils down to if you believe in physics, facts and science or the subjective opinion of the stax mafia. I know which I'm putting my money on. But anyone is free to do what they like with their money. Obviously subjective opinion will always be a major factor in deciding on gear - it is, even for me. But when it comes to magic amplifiers can do.. That's where I draw the line personally, and when it comes to the $$$ needed for the Carbon compared to the 727, I feel strongly that "this side" should be represented too, not just the standard "you need a Carbon to REALLY make em shine".


Who developed the T2 originally and why?

how much more (actually less) does a DIY KGSSHV cost against the current crop of Stax amplifiers?

When I went to the Stax “mafia” for advice on how to power my 007s I was told by spritzer himself that a modified 717 for considerably less than $2K (including import tax) was “plenty good enough”. He never pressured me into spending more and he never wrote anything that made me feel what I purchased wasn’t up to the job, but he was clear in saying that even the best of the original crop of Stax amps aren’t really up to the job unless they are modified, which is why he modifies them. 

which brings me right back to my first question, if that *wasn’t* the case why did Stax develop something as “different” as the T2 in the first place?


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## astromaddie (Feb 6, 2021)

AudioThief said:


> Nobody disagrees that the 007 needs power. The difference is that some people think it needs a 727 to power it sufficiently, while others believe you need a carbon/bhse or even a T2 DIY. It boils down to if you believe in physics, facts and science or the subjective opinion of the stax mafia. I know which I'm putting my money on. But anyone is free to do what they like with their money. Obviously subjective opinion will always be a major factor in deciding on gear - it is, even for me. But when it comes to magic amplifiers can do.. That's where I draw the line personally, and when it comes to the $$$ needed for the Carbon compared to the 727, I feel strongly that "this side" should be represented too, not just the standard "you need a Carbon to REALLY make em shine".


I think the issue I have is that relativity is entirely lost from these secondhand (and often thirdhand) experiences. I've been happily using my 007A on an unmodified T1S, and even, believe it or not, my D10. Even with the D10, I don't go above half volume, and even on that system, I readily prefer it to my old L700. Before my purchase, I had tested the 007A at the store with both a T8000 and a 700T, and with those, the 007A certainly had more power, but it wasn't night and day. It was appreciable, to be sure, with improvements like you said, but still had the same overall sound signature.

I have a manual lever espresso machine at home that I use fresh coffee with. I use different single origins and blends. I find the difference between the beans to be very large. I find the difference between 3-day-old and 7-day-old beans to be even larger. Most people, even coffee drinkers, would probably find the differences largely lost on them, but if they spent their time reading about my experience and opinions online, they'd feel they should throw out any beans on their shelf over 7 days old.

QUICK EDIT: (and caveat emptor) I am going to be modding a CCS load circuit onto my T1S as soon as the PCB arrives.


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## playmusic

elton7033 said:


> I like my Patek 2499


Good choice.
From which series is it and what is the material (yellow gold, rose gold, platinum)?


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## pspentax

Today is music time.
Let’s compare the 007mk2 and 009S.
Esoteric player/Nagra DAC/T8000 amp 🔥🔥🔥


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## AnakChan

juansan said:


> Who developed the T2 originally and why?
> 
> how much more (actually less) does a DIY KGSSHV cost against the current crop of Stax amplifiers?
> 
> ...


Just as a reminder, the T2 was originally paired with the SR-Ω headphones. Someone with better memory can remember if the SR-007 (Mk1) came out together with the SRM-717 or some other amp?


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## 118900 (Feb 6, 2021)

AnakChan said:


> Just as a reminder, the T2 was originally paired with the SR-Ω headphones. Someone with better memory can remember if the SR-007 (Mk1) came out together with the SRM-717 or some other amp?


Yes it was. And then they started to develop the mk2 to resolve  the various issues the original one had (heating etc) and then they went bust.

At the end of the day we can all have our opinions about the 007s and as long as it’s a properly informed opinion or properly executed listening test I absolutely respect that.

many people have heard very well amped 007s vs 009s (in all their guises) and have chosen one above the other and totally fair dues with those choices, utter respect.

But to deny that even Stax themselves realised the difficulties driving the original omegas (inherited by their descendants) and that trying to resolve the issue was not viable (hence the fact that something like the T2 was never again attempted) is simply denying reality, as is suggesting that with the 007s in particular, the choice of the amplifier is of little consequence.

(not saying that is what you are implying, but it seems to be a common theme here recently)


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## AnakChan

juansan said:


> Yes it was. And then they started to develop the mk2 to resolve  the various issues the original one had (heating etc) and then they went bust.
> 
> At the end of the day we can all have our opinions about the 007s and as long as it’s a properly informed opinion or properly executed listening test I absolutely respect that.
> 
> ...


I started with my SR-009 and SRM-727A back in 2013 and was satisfied with them, however I would have to say that I truly enjoyed the SR-009 when I moved to the Electra - of which I still enjoy. The SRM-727A didn't match with my SR-007Mk1s well but the Electra worked better with them. Now I should state that when I "truly enjoyed" it was a comparison between the Electra and the SRM-727A.

I also did get a chance to listen to a Cavalli Liquid Lightning, @arnaud's BHSE and his suite of valve tubes, and with @Donnyhifi's KGSS (KGST? KGSS HV? I can't remember) and admittedly the BHSE bested my Electra, but wasn't enough to warrant another amp upgrade. Instead I bought all the parts for a DIY T2 which I've yet to build.

So at least to my ears, the likes of the Electra, BHSE, KGSS/T/Carbon (and even the SRM-T8000) are marked revolutionary step above the SRM-727A, however between the 3rd party Stax amps, they're more "evolutionary" in a sense that their improvements over each other are more graduated.


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## paradoxper

AnakChan said:


> I started with my SR-009 and SRM-727A back in 2013 and was satisfied with them, however I would have to say that I truly enjoyed the SR-009 when I moved to the Electra - of which I still enjoy. The SRM-727A didn't match with my SR-007Mk1s well but the Electra worked better with them. Now I should state that when I "truly enjoyed" it was a comparison between the Electra and the SRM-727A.
> 
> I also did get a chance to listen to a Cavalli Liquid Lightning, @arnaud's BHSE and his suite of valve tubes, and with @Donnyhifi's KGSS (KGST? KGSS HV? I can't remember) and admittedly the BHSE bested my Electra, but wasn't enough to warrant another amp upgrade. Instead I bought all the parts for a DIY T2 which I've yet to build.
> 
> So at least to my ears, the likes of the Electra, BHSE, KGSS/T/Carbon (and even the SRM-T8000) are marked revolutionary step above the SRM-727A, however between the 3rd party Stax amps, they're more "evolutionary" in a sense that their improvements over each other are more graduated.


Did you get the chassis for a T2? If not, there's your motivation to get the build started and finished!


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## AnakChan

paradoxper said:


> Did you get the chassis for a T2? If not, there's your motivation to get the build started and finished!


I do . In fact I'm embarrassed to say that I have almost all the parts (esp the critical sand that's hard to find and I bought in 2x to 4x spares, even the RK50) but I'm not gutsy enough to start the soldering. @arnaud has been on my back for years, literally, to start the build.


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## paradoxper

AnakChan said:


> I do . In fact I'm embarrassed to say that I have almost all the parts (esp the critical sand that's hard to find and I bought in 2x to 4x spares, even the RK50) but I'm not gutsy enough to start the soldering. @arnaud has been on my back for years, literally, to start the build.


Oh, shame on you! 

For the zealotry, without a T2, you are truly missing out.


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## number1sixerfan (Feb 6, 2021)

AudioThief said:


> Nobody disagrees that the 007 needs power. The difference is that some people think it needs a 727 to power it sufficiently, while others believe you need a carbon/bhse or even a T2 DIY. It boils down to if you believe in physics, facts and science or the subjective opinion of the stax mafia. I know which I'm putting my money on. But anyone is free to do what they like with their money. Obviously subjective opinion will always be a major factor in deciding on gear - it is, even for me. But when it comes to magic amplifiers can do.. That's where I draw the line personally, and when it comes to the $$$ needed for the Carbon compared to the 727, I feel strongly that "this side" should be represented too, not just the standard "you need a Carbon to REALLY make em shine".



Certainly, I'm sure they can be enjoyable from any amp that can properly power them--I think people's* suggestions go beyond power and span into the quality, design and signature of the amp. I have not heard the 727, so I have no dog in this fight. It's just that nobody questions how dynamic headphones scale with TOTL amps, it's essentially accepted as fact. So it's just so odd to me how often it is with the 007/009.

I think many people have the perspective that if you're going to spend the $$$ for TOTL headphones, you're going to want the best amp possible (within your price range) that can get the most out of them, which I agree with. But ultimately, it's subjective and only directly comparing with your own ears matter.


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6

If this is a matter of pure power and control then maybe we should all just get ourselves transformer boxes with fat speaker amps. Depending on the speaker amp chosen this path can have extremely clean sounding results with more weight and authority in the low end than any of us will ever need. The price to performance ratio of these sorts of setups is always impressive. (Assuming that you get one of the better designed transformer units.)


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

I know that Mjolnir Audio and Audiovalve make nice ones. It's also possible to get a used, pro-bias, Stax unit if you look hard enough.


----------



## Aurosonic

If you own a 717/727/007t and are happy with the performance they offer, then any of those amps can be endgame. For most of us, this hobby is about achieving the highest performance possible within a specific budget. Purchasing a KGSS/HV/Carbon/BHSE/T2 should not be seen as a requirement, but rather an option for those who have the financial ability and the desire for improved performance. I was impressed with the 007's out of the 717, and I could have happily ended things there. However, I could afford to upgrade, and I enjoyed the 007's enough to justify an upgrade. I feel it was a wise decision, but an equally wise decision would have been to keep using the 717.


----------



## DesignTaylor

I'm very interested in a transformer. I'm so curious to hear what some of my speaker amps sound like powering my Stax. both my current energizers are hybrid tube and I'm wondering if I should get a SS amp or try a transformer. Does anyone have first hand experience with the Woo, iFI, Mjölnir, or AudioValve?


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6 (Feb 7, 2021)

DesignTaylor said:


> I'm very interested in a transformer. I'm so curious to hear what some of my speaker amps sound like powering my Stax. both my current energizers are hybrid tube and I'm wondering if I should get a SS amp or try a transformer. Does anyone have first hand experience with the Woo, iFI, Mjölnir, or AudioValve?


The Woo Audio Wee has a ton of design and build quality issues. 

The audiovalve vertos are rare and kind of unobtainable unless you buy one brand new and import it. I don't think they make many though so there might be a wait.

I'm not sure about the Ifi IESL, maybe it's good but it's very expensive. 

Your best bet is to just grab one of the Mjolnir audio ones. Those are basically modified versions of the old Stax units.


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6

If you buy the IFI one let us know. I want to know if it's any good.


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## 60smusicrules

Hello all, I‘m thinking about buying a Stax L700 MKII and a Rega Planar 8 and Rega Aria phonostage. It will be my only music system and I listen to vinyl exclusively. I keep my records clean with a Watson record cleaner And my records aren't scratched.

Will this work or are there certain problems that I should be aware of?
Will the Stax SRM-006ts be a good energizer when it comes to synergy with the L700 MKII?

I used to own a Stax 4040 system and a CD player back then. I love the sound of Stax, but I don’t like digital at all. Back then I never had the chance to try it out with vinyl, that’s why i'm asking it here.

Kind regards, 60smusicrules


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6

60smusicrules said:


> Hello all, I‘m thinking about buying a Stax L700 MKII and a Rega Planar 8 and Rega Aria phonostage. It will be my only music system and I listen to vinyl exclusively. I keep my records clean with a Watson record cleaner And my records aren't scratched.
> 
> Will this work or are there certain problems that I should be aware of?
> Will the Stax SRM-006ts be a good energizer when it comes to synergy with the L700 MKII?
> ...


I'm not fond of the 006t for L700s. A 353X would be the better choice in my opinion.


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## 60smusicrules

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> I'm not fond of the 006t for L700s. A 353X would be the better choice in my opinion.


Because of a preference for solid state energizers, or another reason?


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## Grant99

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> The Woo Audio Wee has a ton of design and build quality issues.



Can your elaborate a bit on this ?  I have been using a WEE for about 5 years now, with no issues whatsoever.  It is as good as the amp you are driving it with.  When I first starting  using the WEE I was stunned on how much better it was for my 007 MK2s, even my old SR-404s sound better...more air, more detail, can play louder volumes with ease.

The other thing about the WEE is that Woo Audio states themselves (on their website) that they don't recommend using the WEE at all with the SR-007 or SR-009 models.  Anyone know the technical reason here ?  Or are they trying to sell the higher priced amps ?

Thanks


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## Tugbars

60smusicrules said:


> Because of a preference for solid state energizers, or another reason?



353X is just a better amp. It doesn't have anything to do with whether it's tubes or ss.


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## 118900

Grant99 said:


> Can your elaborate a bit on this ?  I have been using a WEE for about 5 years now, with no issues whatsoever.  It is as good as the amp you are driving it with.  When I first starting  using the WEE I was stunned on how much better it was for my 007 MK2s, even my old SR-404s sound better...more air, more detail, can play louder volumes with ease.
> 
> The other thing about the WEE is that Woo Audio states themselves (on their website) that they don't recommend using the WEE at all with the SR-007 or SR-009 models.  Anyone know the technical reason here ?  Or are they trying to sell the higher priced amps ?
> 
> Thanks


I have read several criticisms of woo products due to apparent “sloppy” internal wiring and poor internal build philosophy with pictures to support this on “the other forum” but have never owned one myself so cannot say first hand one way or the other.


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## Tugbars (Feb 7, 2021)

Woo wee, supposedly, does not have ballast resistors to protect the diaphragm of your headphones from frying. I don't know if they added ballast resistors to their later models.

Transformer boxes are better for dynamics, direct drives are better for detail. Stax calls them as "energizers." To reduce parasitic capacitance, the best is to use  energizers with Lundahl transformers. Schematics are available online. Those transformers are not the best choice for the task according to Birgir(that's why he custom ordered lundahl transformers for his lundahl energizers - and no, he doesn't make those trafo boxes anymore) but surely they are better than transformers Stax has used in SRD7.(I know people who tried both and It's very clear that lundahl energizers are better) I don't know what kind of transformers are used in Woo Wee. I also heard that they offer better detail than SRD7 or even Mjolnir energizers.


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## Grant99

Tugbars said:


> Woo wee, supposedly, does not have ballast resistors to protect the diaphragm of your headphones from frying. I don't know if they added ballast resistors to their later models.


thanks for the info !  do the ballast resistors limit the current coming out of the energizers , is this the idea ?  thanks.


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6

Woo audio definitely does not use ballast resistors in their designs. I sent them an email asking them and they confirmed it. Not even on new units. 





60smusicrules said:


> Because of a preference for solid state energizers, or another reason?


The 353X is just a superior amp to my ears. More power, more detail, and more control.





Grant99 said:


> Can your elaborate a bit on this ?  I have been using a WEE for about 5 years now, with no issues whatsoever.  It is as good as the amp you are driving it with.  When I first starting  using the WEE I was stunned on how much better it was for my 007 MK2s, even my old SR-404s sound better...more air, more detail, can play louder volumes with ease.
> 
> The other thing about the WEE is that Woo Audio states themselves (on their website) that they don't recommend using the WEE at all with the SR-007 or SR-009 models.  Anyone know the technical reason here ?  Or are they trying to sell the higher priced amps ?
> 
> Thanks


They're just trying to sell their higher-priced models. There isn't anything inherently wrong with using a transformer box with the Omega series.  

I know a few people who are using modded woo wee's which supposedly fixes the problem but I don't know how the mod is done.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

I just bought a pair of 009S. They should be here on Wensday. Looking forward to being able to sit down with then long-term.


----------



## Progenitor

Quick question for the wise Stax Mafia. I am thinking about getting the Stax SR-009. Where does the KGST sits in terms of ranking between KGSS Carbon, standard KGSS and the Stax made amps? I tried an SR-009 with blue hawaii years ago and it made a huge impression on me!


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## elton7033

Progenitor said:


> Quick question for the wise Stax Mafia. I am thinking about getting the Stax SR-009. Where does the KGST sits in terms of ranking between KGSS Carbon, standard KGSS and the Stax made amps? I tried an SR-009 with blue hawaii years ago and it made a huge impression on me!


I am no Stax Mafia but i am sure the KGST are totally different thing to the KGSS/KGSShv/KGSShv Carbon, its should lean more towards the BHSE signature.


----------



## Progenitor

elton7033 said:


> I am no Stax Mafia but i am sure the KGST are totally different thing to the KGSS/KGSShv/KGSShv Carbon, its should lean more towards the BHSE signature.


That's really good news. I was really impressed with the BHSE and SR-009 combo! Thank you!

Btw your collection is amazing. The ATH-L3000 and Sony R10 I have heard before and they are such unique headphones!


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## elton7033 (Feb 8, 2021)

Progenitor said:


> That's really good news. I was really impressed with the BHSE and SR-009 combo! Thank you!
> 
> Btw your collection is amazing. The ATH-L3000 and Sony R10 I have heard before and they are such unique headphones!


I know this might be off topic but the problem is I will need more head for more headphones!! Although this might be a very common problem we share as head-fi er lol 
some of the dynamics one below...excluding my electrostatic setup which is in another room...


----------



## jsts

Friends, I have a question. On my SRM-600 (CCS mod) and SR-009BK or SR-007MKII in "The Grid" from "Tron: Legacy" after Flynn's words I clearly hear a crackling in my headphones indicating overload. I am trying to understand: is it my amplifier not able to handle such a heavy arrangement, which leads to audible distortions, or is it the authors' intention? Opening the file in Adobe Audition I see that overloading in levels is there, but it is not clear whether it is used here intentionally. Can you help me figure it out?


----------



## pspentax

jsts said:


> Friends, I have a question. On my SRM-600 (CCS mod) and SR-009BK or SR-007MKII in "The Grid" from "Tron: Legacy" after Flynn's words I clearly hear a crackling in my headphones indicating overload. I am trying to understand: is it my amplifier not able to handle such a heavy arrangement, which leads to audible distortions, or is it the authors' intention? Opening the file in Adobe Audition I see that overloading in levels is there, but it is not clear whether it is used here intentionally. Can you help me figure it out?



In my L300 I don’t find nothing special but a bad sound quality track and I’m cracking the volume up.
The first 3 tracks have very bad recording quality, yes maybe distortion/ compression, limited dynamic range, etc...
I’m lessening the Master quality version.


----------



## 118900

jsts said:


> Friends, I have a question. On my SRM-600 (CCS mod) and SR-009BK or SR-007MKII in "The Grid" from "Tron: Legacy" after Flynn's words I clearly hear a crackling in my headphones indicating overload. I am trying to understand: is it my amplifier not able to handle such a heavy arrangement, which leads to audible distortions, or is it the authors' intention? Opening the file in Adobe Audition I see that overloading in levels is there, but it is not clear whether it is used here intentionally. Can you help me figure it out?


But surely if you see it is overloading in Adobe audition then the overloading is actually “present” which would explain the audible distortion (regardless of why it’s there) or have I misunderstood the question?


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## 6PANDEMONIUM6 (Feb 8, 2021)

juansan said:


> But surely if you see it is overloading in Adobe audition then the overloading is actually “present” which would explain the audible distortion (regardless of why it’s there) or have I misunderstood the question?


I think his question is: should his srm-600 be able to handle it or is Tron purposefully throwing something out that it doesn't want amps to be able to handle?


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## elton7033

jsts said:


> Friends, I have a question. On my SRM-600 (CCS mod) and SR-009BK or SR-007MKII in "The Grid" from "Tron: Legacy" after Flynn's words I clearly hear a crackling in my headphones indicating overload. I am trying to understand: is it my amplifier not able to handle such a heavy arrangement, which leads to audible distortions, or is it the authors' intention? Opening the file in Adobe Audition I see that overloading in levels is there, but it is not clear whether it is used here intentionally. Can you help me figure it out?


is more likely that the track is broken if both of your headphone appear to have problem with, have you try it with other headphone or set up that you have?


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## jsts (Feb 9, 2021)

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> I think his question is: should his srm-600 be able to handle it or is Tron purposefully throwing something out that it doesn't want amps to be able to handle?


Yes, that's right. This is the question.



elton7033 said:


> have you try it with other headphone or set up that you have?


Unfortunately, I was only able to listen this song on Chord Hugo 2 with wired Apple EarPods  These headphones play so badly that i can't even hear distortion in them. I don't have any other headphones.Perhaps this music was created specifically for dynamic drivers...


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## astromaddie

jsts said:


> Unfortunately, I was only able to listen this song on Chord Hugo 2 with wired Apple AirPods  These headphones play so badly that i can't even hear distortion in them. I don't have any other headphones.Perhaps this music was created specifically for dynamic drivers...


I tried listening to my own copy of the Tron Legacy OST (24bit 96khz) on my T1S+007A, and didn't hear any distortion. It could be your specific copy of the song? It seems unlikely to me that the amp itself is causing the distortion.


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## jsts

24bit 96khz - this is vinyl rip?

My version - 10th year anniversary (2020 issue) CD rip - 02 - The Grid.flac.zip


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## astromaddie

Yes, mine is a vinyl rip, so maybe the distortion is lost from the analogue to digital transfer.

Don't worry though, I think I heard the same distortion as you-- at roughly 0:52 and 0:57, correct?


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## jsts

Yes, especially obviously between 0:52 and 0:57! Thank you! KGSSHV or BHSE owners will confirm?


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## astromaddie (Feb 9, 2021)

No problem! Curious to hear if any KGSSHV/BHSR owners hear differently. Something funny though, now that I've heard it on your copy, I can hear the first distortion at 0:52 on my vinyl rip, though not the second distortion. That leads me to believe that the distortion is coming from the master, and it got smoothed out a bit on the vinyl! Your copy was noticeably crisper than mine in general.


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## bearFNF

I just listened to the track you uploaded and to my original version from 2010. I hear very slight tick (like digital noise) at :52 and a slight wobble when the deep bass hits. Is the tick what you are referring to as "distortion" or the slight wobble? Just a slight tick at :57. If I was not specifically listening for something it would go unnoticed. Also at higher volume I did not hear it, probably lost due to the volume. I will say that I agree that the recording is dirty, I hear a couple very slight ticks in other places also, and at low level volume and lots of "fuzz" noise floor? The noise is only on this track I do not hear it with other well recorded tracks. My terminology might not be the best here.  I don't hear any clipping even at higher than normal listening levels. This is with BHSE, Yggdrasil as DAC. with both SR009 and Voce.


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## jsts

bearFNF said:


> Is the tick what you are referring to as "distortion" or the slight wobble?



Yes that's it. But I can clearly hear these distortions. And mainly on the left channel. And they make me nervous.

I see. It's a recording. Thank you, guys, you have calmed me down  I'll clean up the ticks in Adobe Audition. However, it remains unclear how Daft Punk allowed this to happen.


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## pspentax

jsts said:


> Yes that's it. But I can clearly hear these distortions. And mainly on the left channel. And they make me nervous.
> 
> I see. It's a recording. Thank you, guys, you have calmed me down  I'll clean up the ticks in Adobe Audition. However, it remains unclear how Daft Punk allowed this to happen.



Normally the most important band/musicians have the worst recordings.
And you will find much more bad recordings than good recordings 😉


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## 118900 (Feb 9, 2021)

jsts said:


> Yes that's it. But I can clearly hear these distortions. And mainly on the left channel. And they make me nervous.
> 
> I see. It's a recording. Thank you, guys, you have calmed me down  I'll clean up the ticks in Adobe Audition. However, it remains unclear how Daft Punk allowed this to happen.


Deleted, I just saw the answer


----------



## JLoud

I just tried the track on my Yggdrasil BHSE Vocé combo. I don’t hear any distortion. This is on the 16/44 cd rip. Maybe the higher resolution version picks it up.


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## powertoold (Feb 9, 2021)

My 2 cents after ~12 years of owning all kinds of Stax headphones: the amp makes a big difference, and current is king. You want one of the KGSSHV (non Carbon is fine too) amps with as much current as possible. It will make whatever Stax headphones (Lambda or better) you have sing. I personally don't like tube amps because I don't want to deal with the heat or tube rolling 

Because most of the best Stax amps are DIY, it's difficult to verify that they were built or spec'ed properly. So that's why there are so many different opinions about the KGSSHVs. But one that is properly built and spec'ed will be end-game material.

Also, use a balanced DAC with XLR output.


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## AlexmodNew (Feb 10, 2021)

Should an audiophile suffer?
Many people write about their difficilties with the apropriate amping of the *STAX SR-007* model, which has a very low sensitivity. However, any neat person is able to independently improve this parameter (sensitivity) by simply reducing the size of the gaps between the working diaphragm and the stators. It is enough to disassemble the driver and shift the spacers which sets the gap width.
There are 2 spacers at the each side of the membrane between it and stators. Take 1 pc of them out and move them outward from the stators (between stators and safety films). Then re-assemble the driver. Sure you must to be very accurate and gentle.
In my experience, there are no any side effects after that. Even if the membrane sticks to the stator at an excessively high volume (think of the rised sensitivity), it is enough to disconnect the headphones from the amplifier, close the contacts on the jack to uncharge and move the cups on the head, allowing the membrane to unstick and take its working position. No damage or breakdown occurs, because the coating on the working membrane in the case of stax has very, very high resistance. This is primarily aimed to reducing intermodulation distortion due to the effect of affecting the high signal level of the music signals on the amount of membrane charge (bias). And secondarily, high impedance coating protects the membrane from breakdown when  uccidentially sticking to the stator. Does anybody ever seen the burned memrane in a case of flagman stax ever? I dont think so.


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## buzzlulu

powertoold said:


> Because most of the best Stax amps are DIY, it's difficult to verify that they were built or spec'ed properly. So that's why there are so many different opinions about the KGSSHVs. But one that is properly built and spec'ed will be end-game material.



Easy solution to that problem - Mjolnir


----------



## beholdclarity (Feb 10, 2021)

Calling Stax 007mk2 owners:

I have recently stumbled accross a used pair which I am unsure of keeping.
I have noticed 2 things that strike me as unusual and I would appreciate it if you could comment if you have ever encountered this before


The Headphones had quite a bit of dust on them, but not the usual house kind of dust. It looked more like rubb-off from the styrofoam of its box/case.
Have you encountered that, too? Do the boxes leave dust on the headphones? I am slightly worried about dust expore
The cups are not sitting firmly in the receptical of the headband. Of course they can be rotated, that's reasonable. But they feel a little loose as if the fitting should be a little tighter for a 3k headpiece. When rotating the cups, there is play if I wiggle them.
Are your cups tighter? I am not talking about the leather pads, but the cups themselves

Thanks for your insight


----------



## JLoud

Would like some opinions of the differences between the 009, 009s, and 009bk. Have never heard them and don’t have any way to demo. My amp is a BHSE.


----------



## buzzlulu

"theoretically" the 009 and the 009bk are the same


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## JLoud

I have read that’s Stax stance but have heard others say the sound different. Curious.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

JLoud said:


> Would like some opinions of the differences between the 009, 009s, and 009bk. Have never heard them and don’t have any way to demo. My amp is a BHSE.


The 009S has a hair more bass and a touch less high-end. It is also a bit smoother. The 009BK and original should be identical but I've never been able to compare them side by side.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

I mean, I liked the 009S enough to buy a set. 
Just got my own pair today.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

Look what I got


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

Very tight, extremely dynamic, hits hard. Transformer units are best for raw power and control after all.


----------



## JLoud

I have the same Emotiva amp in my home office. Really nice sounding amp for the money. Tons of power from the headphone amp too.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

JLoud said:


> I have the same Emotiva amp in my home office. Really nice sounding amp for the money. Tons of power from the headphone amp too.


This is a level of slam and control that I have not experienced on Stax before. Very clean and powerful sound.


----------



## Tugbars (Feb 10, 2021)

You are getting into "electrostatics need good amount of current to work" memes too. Welcome to the club.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

Tugbars said:


> You are getting into "electrostatics need good amount current" memes too. Welcome to the club.


The soundstage is substantially larger and more controlled than I have heard on any driver unit.


----------



## DesignTaylor

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> The soundstage is substantially larger and more controlled than I have heard on any driver unit.



So eager to try a transformer setup. The STAX ones the have Pro Bias seem to be hard to come by. I would love to see a used iFi iESL come up for sale on the used market but may end up ordering one from Mjölnir-Audio.


----------



## bearFNF

beholdclarity said:


> Calling Stax 007mk2 owners:
> 
> I have recently stumbled accross a used pair which I am unsure of keeping.
> I have noticed 2 things that strike me as unusual and I would appreciate it if you could comment if you have ever encountered this before
> ...


1. No issue with "dust" from the case. Is it the Metal trimmed hard case with the gray foam interior? I also hope it is not Styrofoam, it should be a more uniform gray compressible foam. But, that being said if the foam is starting to break down I would be concerned about where they were stored.
2. The cups on mine do wiggle and rotate quite freely (maybe slightly less than 0.5mm or so radially by eye calibrated eye)


----------



## bigjako

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> Look what I got


I just got that Emotiva amp to use with my Jecklins and pulled out my old NB only SRD-7SB to connect up to it while I repair the Jecklin’s PS2 driver. Based on your experience I may make it a more permanent setup, thanks.


----------



## elton7033 (Feb 12, 2021)

powertoold said:


> My 2 cents after ~12 years of owning all kinds of Stax headphones: the amp makes a big difference, and current is king. You want one of the KGSSHV (non Carbon is fine too) amps with as much current as possible. It will make whatever Stax headphones (Lambda or better) you have sing. I personally don't like tube amps because I don't want to deal with the heat or tube rolling
> 
> Because most of the best Stax amps are DIY, it's difficult to verify that they were built or spec'ed properly. So that's why there are so many different opinions about the KGSSHVs. But one that is properly built and spec'ed will be end-game material.
> 
> Also, use a balanced DAC with XLR output.


the KGSShv Carbon Design is a collaboration design between kelvin and spitzer so the Mjolnir Audio is the one and only official model although the design are out their for everyone to build. the board Mjolnir use are also different in size compare to the normal one out there.

edited: typo now include the word Carbon.


----------



## elton7033

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> I mean, I liked the 009S enough to buy a set.
> Just got my own pair today.


Congratulations I am sure you will love it


----------



## elton7033

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> The soundstage is substantially larger and more controlled than I have heard on any driver unit.


mat be soon you will see justify yourself to join the bhse/canbon club


----------



## beholdclarity

bearFNF said:


> 1. No issue with "dust" from the case. Is it the Metal trimmed hard case with the gray foam interior? I also hope it is not Styrofoam, it should be a more uniform gray compressible foam. But, that being said if the foam is starting to break down I would be concerned about where they were stored.
> 2. The cups on mine do wiggle and rotate quite freely (maybe slightly less than 0.5mm or so radially by eye calibrated eye)




Thanks for the answer, that clarifies it. At least the wiggle is no concern for me anymore.
The box is the original one with the gray foam and it doesn't feel degraded to me.
I do worry about where it was stored, though. There is no impediment currently, but I can return it without cost and I overpaid anyways.
So I will return it and search for a new one, because all else was pretty much brilliant with this thing


----------



## leilei787

Guys, recently there is an opportunity of purchasing a Woo Audio Wes 2nd Gen at very reasonable price, about $2K. I have read some mix review of the Gen 1. Curious how we compare KGSSHV, Blue Hawaii and Wes? Is it that bad? Thanks


----------



## elton7033

leilei787 said:


> Guys, recently there is an opportunity of purchasing a Woo Audio Wes 2nd Gen at very reasonable price, about $2K. I have read some mix review of the Gen 1. Curious how we compare KGSSHV, Blue Hawaii and Wes? Is it that bad? Thanks


i am curious as well never try the 2gen wes... should be fun to roll tube around


----------



## bigjako

DesignTaylor said:


> So eager to try a transformer setup. The STAX ones the have Pro Bias seem to be hard to come by. I would love to see a used iFi iESL come up for sale on the used market but may end up ordering one from Mjölnir-Audio.


I just hooked up my normal-only SRD-7SB to the Emotiva A-100 and connected my Lambda NBs - I am quite surprised by a) the wide soundstage (it immediately jumped out at me and slapped me in the ears) and b) the slam - it reminded me more of my L300 LE down low and has shown a different side of a headphone I thought I'd fully heard - seems smoother and heavier (more meat on the bone), but early on I'm hearing less sparkle.  I guess that's what all the talk about the importance of amp is about... 

Anyways, now I'd love to listen to my pro-bias cans on this combo.  I read recently that you can still run Pro headphones on Normal bias amps/energizers, you just need to increase the volume.  Is that correct or am I jeopardizing the Pro cans?


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

bigjako said:


> I just hooked up my normal-only SRD-7SB to the Emotiva A-100 and connected my Lambda NBs - I am quite surprised by a) the wide soundstage (it immediately jumped out at me and slapped me in the ears) and b) the slam - it reminded me more of my L300 LE down low and has shown a different side of a headphone I thought I'd fully heard - seems smoother and heavier (more meat on the bone), but early on I'm hearing less sparkle.  I guess that's what all the talk about the importance of amp is about...
> 
> Anyways, now I'd love to listen to my pro-bias cans on this combo.  I read recently that you can still run Pro headphones on Normal bias amps/energizers, you just need to increase the volume.  Is that correct or am I jeopardizing the Pro cans?


The A-100 is a very smooth and powerful sounding amp. That's why I think it has good synergy with Stax. They benefit from being smoothed out a little bit plus the immense power improves soundstage and dynamic impact.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

Trying it with my lambda pros now and they have also improved a good amount.


----------



## paradoxper

elton7033 said:


> the KGSSHV Design is a collaboration design between kelvin and spitzer so the Mjolnir Audio is the one and only official model although the design are out their for everyone to build. the board Mjolnir use are also different in size compare to the normal one out there.


Except no. The KGSSHV is the high voltage version of Kevin Gilmore's KGSS.


----------



## Tugbars

Kevin Gilmore Solid State High Voltage: KGSSHV.

KGSSHV Carbon: Carbon name comes from Silicon Carbide transistors used in amps output stage.


----------



## elton7033

paradoxper said:


> Except no. The KGSSHV is the high voltage version of Kevin Gilmore's KGSS.





songmic said:


> There are many different DIY builds of the Carbon by various third parties, but the made in Iceland Mjölnir Audio KGSSHV Carbon (which was born out of a collaboration between Kevin Gilmore and Spritzer) is the original, "official" model that was built without compromise. More info could be found here.
> https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/



oh apparently my information is from songmic post...may be he is wrong in this case...but I am quite sure that I saw something similar on headcase...
Spritzer did tool part in its design.


----------



## paradoxper

elton7033 said:


> oh apparently my information is from songmic post...may be he is wrong in this case...but I am quite sure that I saw something similar on headcase...
> Spritzer did tool part in its design.


You are compounding the KGSSHV and KGSSHV-Carbon in your initial post.


----------



## chocolates

has anyone here heard the sigma pro? curious about how it sounds


----------



## elton7033

paradoxper said:


> You are compounding the KGSSHV and KGSSHV-Carbon in your initial post.


oh I just notice that, it was my stupid typo mistake thanks for correcting me.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

I have the sr-007 on backorder, but lately I wonder if I should just swallow it and change my order to a sr-009. I listen mostly to classical but thought I’d enjoy the darker and more impactful bass of the 007; but i now read that the 007 has trouble keeping up with complex orchestral passages. Any comment would be appreciated.


----------



## 118900

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I have the sr-007 on backorder, but lately I wonder if I should just swallow it and change my order to a sr-009. I listen mostly to classical but thought I’d enjoy the darker and more impactful bass of the 007; but i now read that the 007 has trouble keeping up with complex orchestral passages. Any comment would be appreciated.


What are you planning on using to amplify it? When amplified correctly it is wrong to say that it has trouble keeping up with anything. It is extremely revealing. The 009/009S may be slightly more revealing (at the potential “expense” of other factors) but to say the 007 has trouble keeping up with anything is incorrect (unless you are using an amplifier that cannot feed the current it requires)


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I have the sr-007 on backorder, but lately I wonder if I should just swallow it and change my order to a sr-009. I listen mostly to classical but thought I’d enjoy the darker and more impactful bass of the 007; but i now read that the 007 has trouble keeping up with complex orchestral passages. Any comment would be appreciated.



007 speed is excellent when pairing with the right set up. However, 009 match classical songs really well and if I were you, I would upgrade to 009 purchase.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

juansan said:


> What are you planning on using to amplify it? When amplified correctly it is wrong to say that it has trouble keeping up with anything. It is extremely revealing. The 009/009S may be slightly more revealing (at the potential “expense” of other factors) but to say the 007 has trouble keeping up with anything is incorrect (unless you are using an amplifier that cannot feed the current it requires)



Thanks- for the moment, it is the ifi iESL.


----------



## Tugbars (Feb 14, 2021)

Since Lambda pro, there are no Stax headphones in the world which can't keep up with complex classical music passages as long as you power them well.


----------



## 118900

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Thanks- for the moment, it is the ifi iESL.


Unfortunately I don’t know much about that amplifier so I can’t really tell you whether it is a suitable match. Hopefully others can help there.


----------



## number1sixerfan

TheMiddleSky said:


> 007 speed is excellent when pairing with the right set up. However, 009 match classical songs really well and if I were you, I would upgrade to 009 purchase.




Would agree here. Don't think you can go wrong either way, but with classical definitely the 009 will shine more.


----------



## MacedonianHero

number1sixerfan said:


> Would agree here. Don't think you can go wrong either way, but with classical definitely the 009 will shine more.



Or just get both?


----------



## number1sixerfan

MacedonianHero said:


> Or just get both?



Very true lol. And honestly, they are great compliments to each other.


----------



## bigjako

number1sixerfan said:


> Very true lol. And honestly, they are great compliments to each other.


Is that really the case?  I've never heard either, so I don't have an opinion either way - but all my readings have indicated that people gravitate to one or the other, and feel like the one they chose is great for them and the other one has a bad sound sig.  Are there many (any) people here that have both and use them complementarily to each other?


----------



## number1sixerfan

bigjako said:


> Is that really the case?  I've never heard either, so I don't have an opinion either way - but all my readings have indicated that people gravitate to one or the other, and feel like the one they chose is great for them and the other one has a bad sound sig.  Are there many (any) people here that have both and use them complementarily to each other?



Yea that's one perspective some have, and I get it. They are very different, so I think some will love or hate either--many have just one or the other. But if you enjoy a vast amount of genres and aren't a single headphone type of person, yea they're great compliments. To my ears the 007 is quite a bit outclassed by the 009 overall, but every time I put the 007 back on I'm reminded of just how good they are.


----------



## Deolum

I need some help regarding stax amps.

Considering i need a normal amp/dac with preamp functions for speakers and i also need an estat amp for estats. When i now plug in the amp/dac with the preamps out into the estat amp doesn't that sound worse than a line out signal from a normal dac?


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## 118900 (Feb 15, 2021)

Deolum said:


> I need some help regarding stax amps.
> 
> Considering i need a normal amp/dac with preamp functions for speakers and i also need an estat amp for estats. When i now plug in the amp/dac with the preamps out into the estat amp doesn't that sound worse than a line out signal from a normal dac?


Any additional component in a chain will always remove some level of transparency but with electrostatic HPs you don’t have an alternative and frankly it remains to be seen whether you would really even hear the difference. 

Consider that HPs in general (and electrostatic HPs in particular) are so revealing and free of room acoustic influences that you would need extraordinarily good speakers and room preparation to match your HPs.

Couldn’t you connect the DAC directly into your electrostatic HP amp directly when you listen to headphones? Some have multiple outputs to allow this.


----------



## Deolum

juansan said:


> Any additional component in a chain will always remove some level of transparency but with electrostatic HPs you don’t have an alternative and frankly it remains to be seen whether you would really even hear the difference.
> 
> Consider that HPs in general (and electrostatic HPs in particular) are so revealing and free of room acoustic influences that you would need extraordinarily good speakers and room preparation to match your HPs.


But why don't i have an alternative? I can use a normal dac and connect xlr outputs to headphone amp and rca outputs to stax amp for example. Or not?


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## 118900 (Feb 15, 2021)

Deolum said:


> But why don't i have an alternative? I can use a normal dac and connect xlr outputs to headphone amp and rca outputs to stax amp for example. Or not?


You don’t have an alternative in that you must use a dedicated amp for the headphones. 

As per my edited post you can connect separate outputs from the DAC to each different transducer/component (providing you can turn off the other amp you aren’t using). 

How many outputs does your DAC have?


----------



## Audio Addict

Deolum said:


> But why don't i have an alternative? I can use a normal dac and connect xlr outputs to headphone amp and rca outputs to stax amp for example. Or not?



I am not sure I understand.  I have a PS Audio DirectStream that I run balanced into my RSA A-10 Thunderbolt II.  This amp has a switch that lets me use the A-10 as a preamplifier or an electrostatic headphone amplifier.  I can also run the DirectStream single ended into my RSA Apache for dynamic headphones or I can use the balanced or single ended record outs from the A-10 directly to my Apache.  I don't notice any loss of sound quality on the Apache on the dynamic headphones nor any degradation when listening to the Stax or listening to my 2 channel.


----------



## 118900

Audio Addict said:


> I am not sure I understand.  I have a PS Audio DirectStream that I run balanced into my RSA A-10 Thunderbolt II.  This amp has a switch that lets me use the A-10 as a preamplifier or an electrostatic headphone amplifier.  I can also run the DirectStream single ended into my RSA Apache for dynamic headphones or I can use the balanced or single ended record outs from the A-10 directly to my Apache.  I don't notice any loss of sound quality on the Apache on the dynamic headphones nor any degradation when listening to the Stax or listening to my 2 channel.


I am a bit confused as well. if the question is whether the electrostatic amplifier between the actual DAC and HPs themselves will influence the sound then yes, it will, the same as adding _*any*_ component into a chain will rob the sound of some level of transparency. The question is a) given that electrostatic HPs absolutely require the amp what choice does he have in the matter and b) will he even hear this difference (considering he has nothing to compare it to).


----------



## GarageBoy

Has everyone tried the transformer and 007/009 combo? What do I lose out on vs a bhse etc?


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

GarageBoy said:


> Has everyone tried the transformer and 007/009 combo? What do I lose out on vs a bhse etc?


Well, it depends on which speaker amp you choose. If you get a decent one you don't lose out on much of anything other than the unique tonality of the bhse with various el34s. Some people say that transformer units sound less detailed to them than dedicated estat systems but I sure can't hear much of a difference. You're definitely getting all of the power and control of the bhse from a speaker amp with an energizer.


----------



## elton7033

Deolum said:


> But why don't i have an alternative? I can use a normal dac and connect xlr outputs to headphone amp and rca outputs to stax amp for example. Or not?


Stax cable are balanced so theoretically in order to bring out its full potential you will need to connect your source using balance XLR and most stax amp are balance internally as well


----------



## elton7033

number1sixerfan said:


> Yea that's one perspective some have, and I get it. They are very different, so I think some will love or hate either--many have just one or the other. But if you enjoy a vast amount of genres and aren't a single headphone type of person, yea they're great compliments. To my ears the 007 is quite a bit outclassed by the 009 overall, but every time I put the 007 back on I'm reminded of just how good they are.


For me the only problem with 009 is its picky with tracks which is badly master and the 007 are more tonally suited for modern songs, however the 009 is surely a better headphone.


----------



## chidmas

Hi all I am just wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction for a replacement bolt that holds the Case holder to the headband sadly my case holder broke on my l500 and when I tried to unscrew it, it stripped the head of the bolt. I have bought a replacement case holder but without the bolt ill have to improvise and I would much rather not have to replace the whole headband


----------



## 118900

RIP Rupert Neve


----------



## wrathofkhan

Hi All,
Is there a thread - forum for the new Stax SR 009S


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

How can I distinguish the SR-007 "mk2.5" and "mk2.9"? It seems that can't be done by serial nor by date (since some are years old when sold by your dealer) as far as I've been told


----------



## OneOddPhoton

wrathofkhan said:


> Hi All,
> Is there a thread - forum for the new Stax SR 009S


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sta...earspeakers-released-with-impressions.877870/


----------



## jsts (Feb 18, 2021)

Friends, in the process of updating my audio library in Hi-Res, another question arose concerning the timbre balance when using one or another DAC.

My system:
First (sold) DAC: RME ADI-2 FS
Second (current) DAC: Chord Hugo 2
Driver: Stax SRM-600 (CCS mod)
Interconnect cable: AudioQuest Sydney (silver)
Headphones: SR-009BK, SR-007MKII

As it turns out earlier, there are a lot of bad records, which makes my ears bleed. It also turns out that even Hi-Res recordings are done even worse than classic CD`s. In particular, "Earthbound" from "Soul" (OST, 2020):




https://mega.nz/file/4ngwyazJ#Ay9jyeuGqd56LEZdW27bnQWKIGtQI6Hxw92HcB7Q_AE

on my system between 0:22 and 0:28 I hear horrible distortion due to overload - like sand getting into my headphones. Analysis in Adobe Audition showed that these "grains of sand" are at ~7.2kHz.

Replacing the interconnect cable with any other did not solve the problem - I did not hear any change in the high frequencies.

All the DAC`s I previously used were Delta-Sigma.

Rereading this thread I found out that quite a lot of people notice bad coupling between Delta-Sigma DAC`s and Stax headphones: due to high resolution of Stax music from Delta-Sigma becomes "screaming" and even "squealing", high frequencies go off scale.

The more experienced guys already use, for example, multibit YGGDRASIL DAC.

In this regard, the question arose: would replacing DAC from Delta-Sigma with multibit PCM1704 or R2R lead to a good result? Will the high frequencies become more calm? Will the "overload" disappear? I am considering buying a Norma DA1 DAC or Pagoda DAC (Burr-Brown PCM1704) or Soekris DAC (R2R).


----------



## Tugbars

DuncanDirkDick said:


> How can I distinguish the SR-007 "mk2.5" and "mk2.9"? It seems that can't be done by serial nor by date (since some are years old when sold by your dealer) as far as I've been told


All 007's since last 3 years are mk2.9.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Tugbars said:


> All 007's since last 3 years are mk2.9.



Which works when it’s imported from Japan directly only, right? No other way to distinguish?


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

jsts said:


> Friends, in the process of updating my audio library in Hi-Res, another question arose concerning the timbre balance when using one or another DAC.
> 
> My system:
> First (sold) DAC: RME ADI-2 FS
> ...


I hear it. It's not a problem with your gear or a lack of power. It's in the music itself. It's just a poorly created track. Trying to buy a dac to mellow out or smooth over bad music isn't a good idea. Your hardware should be as good as possible and if the music has flaws like this then that is beyond your control. It's a shame because Disney soundtracks used to be so well recorded.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

Furthermore, the resolution of a track has nothing to do with the recording and mastering quality. A well done cd will spank a high-res file any day of the week. Resolution doesn't really matter all that much for sound quality.


----------



## JLoud

I agree to a point. However a well recorded track will sound better (usually) in say 24/96 as opposed to 16/44. If it is true hi-rez and not simply upconverted. And the rest of your chain is up to the task. ie resolving enough. If this difference is enough to justify the cost is up to you. Of course most of us are here because we are looking for the last 2-3%.


----------



## pspentax

jsts said:


> Friends, in the process of updating my audio library in Hi-Res, another question arose concerning the timbre balance when using one or another DAC.
> 
> My system:
> First (sold) DAC: RME ADI-2 FS
> ...


Indeed CD red-book it’s still the king in digital music, hi-res music is very hyped thing, I’m still waiting to listening a hi-res player to beat the CD.


----------



## elton7033 (Feb 20, 2021)

Tugbars said:


> All 007's since last 3 years are mk2.9.


Will you kindly share how will I be able to know if a 007A is 3 years old or older? I might be interest on finding a pair of second hand mk2.9 and see how it compare with my mk1 but have no idea how to distinguish a 007MK2.9 and a normal MK2


----------



## Mossback (Feb 19, 2021)

pspentax said:


> Indeed CD red-book it’s still the king in digital music, hi-res music is very hyped thing, I’m still waiting to listening a hi-res player to beat the CD.


i'm curious. what players and high rez files are you using to make this determination?

respecting that listening is a subjective process, so ranking digital formats can be a matter of taste or even musical choices, or even what your sonic reference might be. i would not presume to tell you what you should like.

my perspective on this digital format question is that i prefer the music best in it's native format. and almost nothing is actually recorded to redbook 16/44. redbook is a consumer format. it all starts out as a higher resolution. if you can access this original file then you have the best version; the native one. the down-sample to redbook will never quite measure up. and then there is how your player handles processing. is it 'bit perfect' where the dac has the horsepower and low noise to fully process any format in it's native bit depth and resolution?

what i would agree with is that native redbook recordings sound best in redbook. now find one. good luck. i know of a few, and some do sound stellar. but not nearly on par with native higher rez. if you hear a grand piano, violin, or string quartet in native redbook, then native 24/192 or native 24/352 it's pretty obvious which format allows for the decays and overtones, micro-dynamics, tonal richness, timbral textures, the space and ambience. not close at all. if your player is up to it.

just my subjective opinion of course.


----------



## pspentax (May 29, 2021)

Mossback said:


> i'm curious. what players and high rez files are you using to make this determination?
> 
> respecting that listening is a subjective process, so ranking digital formats can be a matter of taste or even musical choices, or even what your sonic reference might be. i would not presume to tell you what you should like.
> 
> ...


Nothing special just some high-end Player/transport/DAC from DCS/Esoteric/Wadia/Nagra/etc... and for now the Nagra HD DAC X is my favorite and for streams/servers some like Inuuos Stament/Auralic/Aurender/etc... and my favorite almost as good as a CD the Taiko SGM Extreme.


----------



## Mossback (Feb 20, 2021)

pspentax said:


> Nothing special just some high-end Player/transport/DAC from DCS/Esoteric/Wadia/Nagra/etc... and for now the Nagra HD DAC X is my favorite and for streams/servers some like Inuuos Stament/Auralic/Aurender/etc... and my favorite almost as good as a CD the Taiko SGM Extreme.


very nice kit you have there. i like the Extreme too. my Extreme has the TAS music management software being developed by Taiko. it's now on the 'Beta' release.

do you have a comment on my point of the native resolution being best. i'm also a big fan of redbook, and listen to it all the time. it's how the music is presented to us most. so from that perspective it's king of access to music. but king of performance? not how i hear it when the native file is ownable.

can you mention a recording where the redbook/CD version actually sounds better than the higher resolution native file? and the player used in that case; is it 'bit perfect'? or is it up-sampling everything?

personally i have a problem with a dac that converts 100% of the files to dsd 256. my experience is that i strongly prefer native 24/352 PCM to the converted dsd 256 files. OTOH i do really enjoy native dsd 256 files (very few and far between). but no doubt it's a beautiful sounding dac. at that level of dacs it's choosing flavors, degrees of wonderful.

and btw; i did have two versions of the previous Nagra HD dac (not the X) with the separate power supply in my system three years ago a few months apart. liked them both, the later version more.

i assume Andreas Koch (Playback Designs) still designs the dac for the Nagra. i know Andreas, he has stayed in my home. a genius.


----------



## DesignTaylor

Question for those of you that have been in the STAX game for awhile. So far I've only tied Pro bias earspeakers (which are great)  Are there any normal bias earspeakers that stand the test of time? Do they offer anything different in terms of sound signature or is it just an older technology that has been superceded by a better one?


----------



## bigjako

It’s my opinion that the NB Lambdas are pretty special, and not “old tech”.  I go back and forth between my L300 LEs and my NBs and I’d say neither is better than the other.  I sold my L300s to someone on this forum and he was so disappointed in them (boosted bass among his complaints) that he sold them immediately. I’d say the way they present the high end is their biggest strength and the miss are sweet and smooth. Bass and slam is better on the LEs but I bought them with the blu-tak mod already installed.

I like mine so much that very time I see a pair for sale I debate whether to buy it to keep it in storage.


----------



## DesignTaylor

What's on the short list for must try NB earspeakers?


----------



## bigjako

I have the Lambda NBs and the SR~5. I would just strongly recommend the NB Lambdas.  I think there are a couple for sale right now.  If you already have a speaker amp, just get an SRD-7 and use that, otherwise you’ll want a T1S or something like the Bottlehead that has both.


----------



## DesignTaylor

I have an SRM-T1 that I was thinking about selling but I was wondering if I should try some NBs before letting it go. 

Is there a specific NB lambda that really shines?


----------



## bigjako

I may be wrong, but I think they’re just called Stax Lambdas. There were other ear speakers, like the Sigma or SR-5, that used the normal bias, but only one NB Lambda model. I am probably oversimplifying, but that’s my understanding - there’s just one Lambda NB.


----------



## capetownwatches (Feb 22, 2021)

I have connected one of my headphone amps to SRM-353X via the parallel outputs and it seems to work very nicely.

I cannot hear any signal degradation apart from a (possible) slight lowering of output level compared to a direct connection to the DAC.

Has anyone else used this functionality and what was your impression?


----------



## chocolates

DesignTaylor said:


> I have an SRM-T1 that I was thinking about selling but I was wondering if I should try some NBs before letting it go.
> 
> Is there a specific NB lambda that really shines?


there's only the one NB lambda (the "original"). the other lambdas are pro bias. definitely interesting - very airy and light.


capetownwatches said:


> I have connected one of my headphone amps to SRM-353X via the parallel outputs and it seems to work very nicely.
> 
> I cannot hear any signal degradation apart from a (possible) slight lowering of output level compared to a direct connection to the DAC.
> 
> Has anyone else used this functionality and what was your impression?


I believe they're literally just a passthrough circuit if you open up the amp, so it should be transparent aside from the addition of another interconnect. don't think that should be too noticeable, but it's useful for passing through to a speaker amp or something


----------



## capetownwatches

chocolates said:


> I believe they're literally just a passthrough circuit if you open up the amp, so it should be transparent aside from the addition of another interconnect. don't think that should be too noticeable, but it's useful for passing through to a speaker amp or something


Thanks for the feedback


----------



## Tugbars (Dec 11, 2021)

This is kind of off-topic. This is ES-1A - an Omega I inspired headphone designed and built by only one person who has experience in repairing Omega I's.


*Tonality*
ES-1A's sound signature is a mixture of slightly recessed mids and treble with emphasized air region. This shifts spectral balance towards high frequencies and overtones become quite apparent in the stage. 

*Bass*: Bass response is flat and well balanced if you can seal ES-1A's well on your head. Sub bass textures are significantly better pronounced on ES-1A than 009 and even 007. Midbass can get punchy if the source is calling for it however there is no slight emphasis on midbass to make them slam as hard as Focal headphones.  ES-1A's bass response has no problems, there is not much to talk about here. It's important to note that most of the music we listen is recorded with speakers in a room. Speakers do not have flat bass response in rooms, in room response of state-of-art speakers is  usually r a downward slope from 20hz to 20khz.(Check steady state in room response for speakers for more info). As a result, since the music we usually listen is recorded with speakers, flat bass on headphones is a deviation from accuracy(usually) towards bass light sound signature. However, this is the norm with headphones usually. And ES-1A achieves flatness better than most others.

*Mids:  *
Weird. There is a peak(a mountain?) around 1100hz which gives warmth to overall presentation. From there on, there's another dip around 1900hz. 1900hz is not only heavily recessed, 1100hz mountain peak definitely forward masks some of the detail around 1900hz and pushes the detail in that area even to lower decibels. Female vocal overtones may be lost in the stage because of this. However,
I think this 1100hz peak is necessary to balance the extremely emphasized high frequencies on ES-1A. My solution is to use 007 pads which tames down 1100hz peak by 2db and boosts 1900hz-2500hz a bit. On top of that I apply a bit EQ too. I understand why the designer didn't damp the 1100hz peak however it makes the situation worse in the areas where the response is already recessed.

*Treble
2.5-5khz: *As I already mentioned before, there is a slight recession from 1500hz to 2500hz. From 2500hz onwards until 5khz, there is no peaks and dips in this area for the most part and this makes ES-1A sound very *fast*. Quite good. There isn't much to say, ES-1A performs very good until 5khz.(yes I like that 4k peak too). Most other headphones have small dips and peaks around 2-5khz. ES-1A behaves extremely well where most headphones fail hard. 

*5-10khz:  *The driver goes out of min phase behavior around 5100hz area. Crinacle's measurements also reveal that problem. However according to tests I did with tone generator on my unit, the problem area is narrower than what Crinacle's measurements suggests. Unit variation? Maybe. There is another cancellation area around 7700hz. There are few cancellations in this area which have very high Q. Usually ES-1A's 5-8khz response is *dark*. It prepares the listener to the fireworks that is going to happen in 10khz+ area.

*10-20khz:*Usually flat response from 20hz and 20khz is considered as *accurate* which is not the case all the time. Music we listen is recorded in rooms with speakers and well designed speakers do not have flat high frequency in room response. Therefore, headphones with flat 10khz response may sound a bit bright, too *airy* while listening to majority of recordings. This is the case with ES-1A. Is it a huge problem? No, actually I like it more this way. What is fascinating about ES-1A's high treble response is that there are no huge peaks that can kill the timbre of instruments. It's almost a flat line with few cancellation areas(which is normal). 007's have 2 spikes around 11khz and 12khz and I find very off putting. 009 also suffers from the same HF peaks. I find both unlistenable without EQ because of this. ES-1A's HF response is fantastic. 

*ES-1A vs 009 and 007.*

009 has a bit more 3khz presence and that makes 009 a bit more detailed in the mids and low treble. However ES-1A sounds more detailed in overtones due to the huge emphasis on 8-20khz response. ES-1A bass response is way better than 009/S. 009s' lack of bass make things a bit hollow and shifts spectral balance a bit too much towards treble.

007 is darker than the rest, 007's high treble response is also quite powerful however there are 2 huge peaks in 007's HF response: one in 10khz, the other 12khz. These peaks can kill timbre of most instruments. As I said before ES-1A has super energetic treble but the emphasis is constant and controlled from 8khz and 20khz. This is very very important. Due to lack of mid presence, 007 sounds a bit more midbassy than ES-1A. For the same reasons ES-1A rumble harder than 007.

ES-1A with 007mkI pads sound the most detailed ouf of all.

*Imaging/Soundstage*
ES-1A's drivers are huge. I mean... huge. ES-1A's headstage does something only few headphones can: The headstage wraps around the head and sounds can come from every direction around the head. This is addictive. Normally the sound window is limited to L and R channels on headphones. ES-1A's drivers are so huge that, the center stereo phantom image presentation on ES-1A is much better than all other headphones I've tried. This is most fascinating thing on ES-1A in my opinion.

*Comfort*
About comfort, ES1A is kind of heavy but I found ES-1A bit more comfortable than other 2. I like loose fitting headphones more than hard clamping ones. Remember that, this is just my own subjective preference.

*Conclusion*
ES1A sounds open, fast, extremely detailed with a tonality that makes music more engaging and involving than 007 or 009 for me. I don't have problems with "ethereal"(like 009) sounding headphones. If you do, It's better to check other options. As a wrap up, I think It's safe to repeat what another reviewer said: "these are what  the 009S should have been."

I'd recommend them with 007 pads.

My audio chain: HQPlayer sinc-M filters -> Soekris 2541 Black Filter-> KGSSHV Carbon > headphones.


----------



## JLoud

capetownwatches said:


> I have connected one of my headphone amps to SRM-353X via the parallel outputs and it seems to work very nicely.
> 
> I cannot hear any signal degradation apart from a (possible) slight lowering of output level compared to a direct connection to the DAC.
> 
> Has anyone else used this functionality and what was your impression?


I ran this way when I had the 353x and it worked fine. I couldn't tell any difference either. I didn't notice any difference in volume however through the 353x passthrough. So maybe your hearing is better or your just wondering if it is there.


----------



## DesignTaylor

Tugbars said:


> I think It's safe to say these are my favorites electrostatic headphones right now.


Great write up and I very much agree with your impressions. I got my pair a few weeks ago and continue to like them more and more. I've compared against the 007, DCA Voce, and the L300 LTD. Each can do something the others can not, but the ES-1a probably has the most compelling overall sound to my ears.


----------



## bigjako

DesignTaylor said:


> Great write up and I very much agree with your impressions. I got my pair a few weeks ago and continue to like them more and more. I've compared against the 007, DCA Voce, and the L300 LTD. Each can do something the others can not, but the ES-1a probably has the most compelling overall sound to my ears.


Are the ES-1a's as hard to drive as the 007 (or 009)?  Or are they closer to Lambdas?  Just wondering if you'd need the Carbon to drive them or if an older 006t or similar would work.  I'm staying away from the 007 or 009 until I can upgrade my amp. 

PS - if anyone knows someone who can do the CCS mod on a SRM-T1S or a 006t, please let me know.  I've posted here and on the other forum, to no luck.


----------



## DesignTaylor

bigjako said:


> Are the ES-1a's as hard to drive as the 007


In my limited experience I can say that they are easier to drive than the 007 or the Voce but harder to drive than the lambda.


----------



## Tugbars (Feb 22, 2021)

ES-1A is as hard to drive as 007. You need a bulky amp.(Taylor disagreed with me, I have to go into detail a bit more then: I set the volume knob at the same position as 007 maybe a bit less while listening to ES-1A)


----------



## DesignTaylor

I don't have a high-power SS energizer so I'm likely under-driving everything I've tried. 

Here's what Benson (the guy who builds them) has to say: The 007t or the 727 is a good place to start with for warmer sound, while 717 and KGSSHV are less warm but more neutral. If using lower tier amps like stax 252s or 006t the es1a will not be in its full potential. 

I've tried the ES-1a on my stock SRM-T1 and it sounded ok, but not great. On my Mjölnir tuned SRM-007tA they sound pretty incredible. I'm waiting on a transformer box so I can try powering them with my speaker amps. I'll let you know if I learn anything new.


----------



## capetownwatches

JLoud said:


> I ran this way when I had the 353x and it worked fine. I couldn't tell any difference either. I didn't notice any difference in volume however through the 353x passthrough. So maybe your hearing is better or your just wondering if it is there.


I doubt my hearing is better (not at my age) so quite probably just expectation bias at play. Thanks for your feedback!


----------



## 118900

Does anyone have any experience changing the power cable to the amplifier? I decided to swap my generic €5 cable for a supra lo-rad and the changes have been quite dramatic. 

Firstly the extremely low level hum I mentioned a couple of months ago has disappeared completely (the power cable necessarily runs close to the audio interconnects so spritzer’s suggestion it was caused by this has now been confirmed). 

Secondly, after the first few hours where the sound actually sounded worse (over bright and missing low frequencies) it has now improved noticeably compared to its previous best. The frequency spectrum is back to what it was but high frequencies are slightly more present (without sounding over bright) and the sound is even clearer than before. 

Wasn’t expecting all that from a power cable.


----------



## walakalulu

juansan said:


> Does anyone have any experience changing the power cable to the amplifier? I decided to swap my generic €5 cable for a supra lo-rad and the changes have been quite dramatic.
> 
> Firstly the extremely low level hum I mentioned a couple of months ago has disappeared completely (the power cable necessarily runs close to the audio interconnects so spritzer’s suggestion it was caused by this has now been confirmed).
> 
> ...


Depends on the amp. Some are more susceptible to cable changes than others. My Grounded Grid does react to changes and I’m using a Shunyata at present.


----------



## elton7033

juansan said:


> Does anyone have any experience changing the power cable to the amplifier? I decided to swap my generic €5 cable for a supra lo-rad and the changes have been quite dramatic.
> 
> Firstly the extremely low level hum I mentioned a couple of months ago has disappeared completely (the power cable necessarily runs close to the audio interconnects so spritzer’s suggestion it was caused by this has now been confirmed).
> 
> ...


I do, I uses Furutech Flux / Cardas Clear and Acoustic Harmony Power cable for my headphone setup and it sure sound different to the original one, especially the original stax 727 cable which came with the 727 are horrible.


----------



## BowWazoo (Feb 24, 2021)

...


----------



## BowWazoo

can someone tell me, how I can recognize a 007 MK2 and a MK2.5?


----------



## BowWazoo

Got the MK2 here now.
 The first impression is disturbing.
 3 rotating elements.

 1. Housing outside with cable 
 2. Inside, with a protruding "rod"
 3. Ear pads

 How the 007 MK2 should that be adjusted ...?!


----------



## 118900 (Feb 24, 2021)

BowWazoo said:


> Got the MK2 here now.
> The first impression is disturbing.
> 3 rotating elements.
> 
> ...


They are specifically designed so you can rotate the ear pads (including the lifting “rod”) for the best seal against your head and can also adjust the cable direction completely independently from each other. Nothing disturbing about it. Don’t you have instructions for them explaining this?

Most people i have read about (including myself) have the thicker part of the pads backward and downwards (more or less) in order to have the best seal. I adjust the outer part so that the cables face slightly forward so as not to interfere with my shoulders. 

But you should play around until you find whatever suits you best.


----------



## 118900

BowWazoo said:


> can someone tell me, how I can recognize a 007 MK2 and a MK2.5?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/which-sr-007s-do-i-have.896095/


----------



## playmusic

Not sure if this was known before, but Stax announced today that SRM-007tA and SRM-006tS has been discontinued.

Would be nice if Stax announced some new products, too.
The new Omega which they are developing right now would be welcome.


----------



## tabness

playmusic said:


> Not sure if this was known before, but Stax announced today that SRM-007tA and SRM-006tS has been discontinued.
> 
> Would be nice if Stax announced some new products, too.
> The new Omega which they are developing right now would be welcome.



that sucks looks like STAX jumping on the super expensive amps tip now maybe 353 and 727 are next on the chopping block since they have the 700S/T


----------



## elton7033

tabness said:


> that sucks looks like STAX jumping on the super expensive amps tip now maybe 353 and 727 are next on the chopping block since they have the 700S/T


they already discontinued the 727 on 2020/06/08
https://stax.co.jp/2020/06/08/srm-727a-生産完了のお知らせ/


----------



## wrathofkhan

I am just waiting to receive my new SR009S which I plan on using with my old Stax SRM-T1W which at the time was reckoned to be a really good amp.
Does anyone know how that stacks up with todays Amps?.
I am looking at the BHSE which from what I have read lately should be a perfect match for the 009S, gorgeous  looking but a wow price and no chance of comparing my SRM-T1W with it as not a stock item where I live.

Thanks all for your input


----------



## jsts

wrathofkhan said:


> I am just waiting to receive my new SR009S which I plan on using with my old Stax SRM-T1W which at the time was reckoned to be a really good amp.
> Does anyone know how that stacks up with todays Amps?.
> I am looking at the BHSE which from what I have read lately should be a perfect match for the 009S, gorgeous  looking but a wow price and no chance of comparing my SRM-T1W with it as not a stock item where I live.
> 
> Thanks all for your input



IMHO, such expensive equipment MUST be listened to before you buy it.

Otherwise, to me, the BHSE, KGSSHV, 3ES signatures are tonally different and certainly superior in fact to any current Stax driver.

How strong are the differences? Much depends on YOUR HEARING. For example, for me it is enough to own not the most powerful SRM-600: for me it covers 80-85% of musicality and I consider the difference with BHSE not essential. But I'm not an audiophile, I'm just a music lover. Whether the 15% improvement is worth 6000 euros is a question that can be decided after listening.

I wouldn't be too hasty and go to a hi-end show / store / friends / head-fiers for auditions. Which is already an adventure itself


----------



## bwck2000

elton7033 said:


> they already discontinued the 727 on 2020/06/08
> https://stax.co.jp/2020/06/08/srm-727a-生産完了のお知らせ/



Hi Elton sorry for a bit off topic here but what is the airbow hd800 that you own? A modded hd800? I didn't realize airbow make these.


----------



## bwck2000 (Feb 28, 2021)

jsts said:


> IMHO, such expensive equipment MUST be listened to before you buy it.
> 
> Otherwise, to me, the BHSE, KGSSHV, 3ES signatures are tonally different and certainly superior in fact to any current Stax driver.
> 
> ...


I used to Own a SRM-600 and I have to agree that it is a pretty good match with the 009/009s. It has sufficient detail , tranparency and treble extension feeding to the 009 and the tad of sweetness that is added to the music just make this combo more enjoyable to listen to comparing to its peers 006ts/T1W/T1S or even the 007t/727, despite of its very limited dynamic.

But a year ago the offset of one channel has shifted 100v to the -ve output due to a failing resistor and seems to me that the 8 AMRG resistors will fail one by one in the future so buy  the 600 only when you are prepared to fix them. But still a good combo with the 009. I'd have kept my 600 if there aren't any resistor issues.

I hope that the successor of the 006ts would be a 600 with those resistor issues fixed.


----------



## jsts

bwck2000 said:


> I used to Own a SRM-600 and I have to agree that it is a pretty good match with the 009/009s. It has sufficient detail , tranparency and treble extension feeding to the 009 and the tad of sweetness that is added to the music just make this combo more enjoyable to listen to comparing to its peers 006ts/T1W/T1S or even the 007t/727, despite of its very limited dynamic.
> 
> But a year ago the offset of one channel has shifted 100v to the -ve output due to a failing resistor and seems to me that the 8 AMRG resistors will fail one by one in the future so buy  the 600 only when you are prepared to fix them. But still a good combo with the 009. I'd have kept my 600 if there aren't any resistor issues.
> 
> I hope that the successor of the 006ts would be a 600 with those resistor issues fixed.



Yes, I also liked the 600 more than the 007t, so I settled on the 600. And yes, the problem with the resistors is the horror of the SRM-600.  They die one by one.

I bought my used driver with two failed resistors. So I bought 16 pieces of new original resistors in Japan. Replaced the dead ones. After 2 MONTHS I noticed that the sound on the right channel was muddy, went to check - another resistor was dead. Replaced it. A month later the story repeated with another resistor. That's why I decided to get rid of the resistors and implemented CCS-mod (I wrote about it above). No more problems.


----------



## bwck2000

jsts said:


> . That's why I decided to get rid of the resistors and implemented CCS-mod (I wrote about it above). No more problems.



Is it still the 600 after the mod?


----------



## jsts

bwck2000 said:


> Is it still the 600 after the mod?



Yes, it's still the same SRM-600  I was afraid that replacing the resistors with a current source would cause the sound to become "metallic", rough. But it did not - it is still the same tube driver with improved dynamics and resolution at low and high frequencies. It was inexpensive + solved the problem of constantly dying resistors, so I decided to implement CCS-mod.


----------



## number1sixerfan

jsts said:


> IMHO, such expensive equipment MUST be listened to before you buy it.
> 
> Otherwise, to me, the BHSE, KGSSHV, 3ES signatures are tonally different and certainly superior in fact to any current Stax driver.
> 
> ...



How would you describe the 3ES in comparison to the BHSE? I've always been really happy with the BHSE and WES, but haven't come across many people that have heard the 3ES and others.


----------



## jsts (Feb 28, 2021)

number1sixerfan said:


> How would you describe the 3ES in comparison to the BHSE? I've always been really happy with the BHSE and WES, but haven't come across many people that have heard the 3ES and others.



I can't write exquisitely, so very briefly and only my opinion:

WES vs 3ES - 3ES won. WES plays very soft, so soft that you might as well buy an inexpensive magneplanar like the LCD-2 (please, no offense!). The dynamics are on par with the T1. The 3ES is a big step forward - you can hear it clearly.

3ES vs BHSE - BHSE won. Again, it's about dynamics and resolution. The 3ES is "soapy", relaxed in moments where need to add energy, push harder. I must say that to me the 3ES looks prettier and more solid (obviously because of the many lamps ) than the BHSE.

BHSE vs Carbon (Mjölnir) - draw  No comment, personal preference in tone.

I repeat - everything should be listened to PERSONALLY.


----------



## number1sixerfan

jsts said:


> I can't write exquisitely, so very briefly and only my opinion:
> 
> WES vs 3ES - 3ES won. WES plays very soft, so soft that you might as well buy an inexpensive magneplanar like the LCD-2 (please, no offense!). The dynamics are on par with the T1. The 3ES is a big step forward - you can hear it clearly.
> 
> ...



I really appreciate the impressions there! And interesting to hear. And I agree fully, it all comes down to really trying them out personally. I enjoy the WES for the price point and there's one or two things that imo it does better than the BHSE, but the Blue Hawaii definitely wins in resolution, clarity and accuracy. Definitely. 

If the 3ES isn't a big leap above the BHSE, it would be hard for me to justify giving it a shot. Sounds like that may not be the case. Hopefully I can hear it one day, but it sounds like the BHSE is as good as I feel it is. Thanks again.


----------



## cucera

bwck2000 said:


> Is it still the 600 after the mod?


There is a guy in Germany who does the CCS mod on those T1/006/600 and even 007t. He is verry professional.

http://stritt-audio.de/stax-driver-units/
The site is in German, but he speaks reasonable English.

Brings those Stax amps closer to the KGST.


----------



## Deolum

How absurd is it to drive a SR007 Mk.1 with a Hifiman Jade II amp? Is the Jade II amp significantly worse than SRM 717/727?


----------



## jsts

Deolum said:


> How absurd is it to drive a SR007 Mk.1 with a Hifiman Jade II amp? Is the Jade II amp significantly worse than SRM 717/727?



The Hifiman Jade II is a terrible amplifier. Both in terms of the cheap amplification circuitry used and in terms of build quality. There is a detailed description with pictures on another forum.


----------



## AnakChan (Mar 2, 2021)

I think there needs to be a little more information about sonics too. Engineering quality only partially answers the question. To use an example, I know a couple of years ago, other forums trashed the Cavalli electrostat build but I had that demo unit with me and sonically I thought it sounded pretty good.

I personally like to read all forums to be _informed_, but to my best, I try to make conclusions myself.


----------



## chococya96 (Mar 2, 2021)

EDIT


----------



## jsts

AnakChan said:


> I think there needs to be a little more information about sonics too. Engineering quality only partially answers the question. To use an example, I know a couple of years ago, other forums trashed the Cavalli electrostat build but I had that demo unit with me and sonically I thought it sounded pretty good.
> 
> I personally like to read all forums to be _informed_, but to my best, I try to make conclusions myself.



Yes, of course, I apologize, I didn't mean to mislead. I have not listened to Jade and cannot draw my own conclusions. That said, I just wanted to let you know that the Jade circuit apparently will not provide the proper power for the 007.


----------



## jsts (Mar 3, 2021)

By the way, I've been using RCA for 15 years and never XLR. Two questions if anyone knows:

1. Are the XLR inputs on the SRM-600 true-balanced (-0+)?
2. When the amplifier is turned on, input 1 (RCA) is active by default. Can I make input 3 (XLR) active by default when the amplifier is turned on?


----------



## tumpux

It is true balance.


----------



## elton7033 (Mar 4, 2021)

bwck2000 said:


> Hi Elton sorry for a bit off topic here but what is the airbow hd800 that you own? A modded hd800? I didn't realize airbow make these.


its one of the prototype which airbow made around 2012 I believe the mod consist of changing the inner wire to Diatone 7N hybrid from the connector to driver and it absolutely makes not much of a different not to mention the HD800S is still better. Unlike their Stax modded amp which is good, this didn't went well and they sold their prototype on ippinkan shop. The only reason I buy it is because it was 120000yen back then and 120000yen is quite cheap for any hd800 back in 2012.

In fact I highly question their modded headphone make a day and night different like how they mention in the description of this Airbow modded STAX SRSC21 below
https://www.ippinkan.co.jp/airbow/product/headphone/srsc21_11.html


----------



## jsts

tumpux said:


> It is true balance.



Thank you so much! Now it remains to find a true balanced DAC... I seems to be turning from a music lover to an audiophile. Or is it spring...


----------



## chocolates

has anyone tried the SR-SC1 airbow? (modded 404)

curious about the sound and how it compares to the 404sig/le


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Has anyone a source for the last version of the sr007? Should ship to Europe. Local pricing is insane


----------



## 118900

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Has anyone a source for the last version of the sr007? Should ship to Europe. Local pricing is insane


Be wary that importing into a European country would be subject to local VAT. The difference may be enough to not make it worthwhile.


----------



## elton7033

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Has anyone a source for the last version of the sr007? Should ship to Europe. Local pricing is insane


you can try import directly from fujiya avic.
https://www.fujiya-avic.co.jp/shop/g/g200000007895/
you can use its world shopping service to order.


----------



## elton7033

chocolates said:


> has anyone tried the SR-SC1 airbow? (modded 404)
> 
> curious about the sound and how it compares to the 404sig/le


if you mean the SRSC21 the driver is custom by stax and they apply DCT coating on it, result is not a day and night difference but better dynamics and bass, some what like a  bass heavier SR404LE, but don't worth the price tag since you can get a SR007 for it back then.


----------



## chocolates

i think it is the SR-SC1: *https://www.ippinkan.co.jp/pdf_files/sc1_222p.pdf*


----------



## tabness

So I've been listening to the baby STAX for the last couple days. Quite interesting pair of phones.

Unfortunately, they were not the baby 009/S I had hoped for (closer to a baby Omega). Very mid focused phone, not much extension in the lows (expected) or highs (unexpected). Provides the typical electrostat sound outta nowhere experience, but missing that ultra clarity of the 009S/L500, and also obviously a smaller sense of space with less separation. Really nice timbre though, Omega like.

After a bit of getting used to, they aren't really uncomfortable on the stock tips for me either, except some discomfort pulling them out as the tips sorta scrape your ear. Let's see how the ET A1 tips help out soundwise.

Dunno if I'll keep them but at least the price isn't ridiculous.


----------



## elton7033

chocolates said:


> i think it is the SR-SC1: *https://www.ippinkan.co.jp/pdf_files/sc1_222p.pdf*


Thank you for your info, I have never heard that before. looks interesting


----------



## bwck2000

elton7033 said:


> its one of the prototype which airbow made around 2012 I believe the mod consist of changing the inner wire to Diatone 7N hybrid from the connector to driver and it absolutely makes not much of a different compare to the HD800S. Unlike their Stax modded amp which is good, this didn't went well and they sold their prototype on ippinkan shop. The only reason I buy it is because it was 120000yen back then and 120000yen is quite cheap for any hd800 back in 2012.
> 
> In fact I highly question their modded headphone make a day and night different like how they mention in the description of this Airbow modded STAX SRSC21 below
> https://www.ippinkan.co.jp/airbow/product/headphone/srsc21_11.html



Thank you for explaination. Then I'd stick with the original hd800. Airbow makes some good products but not those with only cable changed to something else and were sold for a double.

But I actually believe in their dct technology that really changed the headphone by a bit. I owned a sc1, which sounds something like a 404 with more focused highs and much sweeter mids. Cryo tech is never pseudo science but you never know do they really treat the item so cryo-hifi is always suspicious.

The SC1 seldom shows on second hand market, but the rarity of the sc21 is another level.


----------



## elton7033 (Mar 7, 2021)

tabness said:


> So I've been listening to the baby STAX for the last couple days. Quite interesting pair of phones.
> 
> Unfortunately, they were not the baby 009/S I had hoped for (closer to a baby Omega). Very mid focused phone, not much extension in the lows (expected) or highs (unexpected). Provides the typical electrostat sound outta nowhere experience, but missing that ultra clarity of the 009S/L500, and also obviously a smaller sense of space with less separation. Really nice timbre though, Omega like.
> 
> ...


I know this is abit off topic but I wonder what is that discman, does the CD really ejects that way?


----------



## DougD

elton7033 said:


> I know this is abit of topic but I wonder what is that discman, does the CD really ejects that way?



I think that's a Sony Discman D-88 ... which was smaller than a CD ... so that's it in playing mode, the CD is not fully encased. A vintage piece, impressive that it's still working. Here's a YouTube. (I watched 15 seconds.)


----------



## 118900

Deolum said:


> How absurd is it to drive a SR007 Mk.1 with a Hifiman Jade II amp? Is the Jade II amp significantly worse than SRM 717/727?


This may be of interest to you:

https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/13505-hifiman-jade-ii/


----------



## gilency

elton7033 said:


> you can try import directly from fujiya avic.
> https://www.fujiya-avic.co.jp/shop/g/g200000007895/
> you can use its world shopping service to order.


I made a special trip to Fujiya Avic when in Tokyo a couple of years ago. The store was not as big as I thought but the staff was very nice.


----------



## elton7033

gilency said:


> I made a special trip to Fujiya Avic when in Tokyo a couple of years ago. The store was not as big as I thought but the staff was very nice.


yea, in fact e-earphone or tereon is much bigger, however, fujiya avic and dynamicaudio tend to have more high-end stuff.


----------



## Markus9229

Hello everyone. After a disappointing experience with the Koss 95X, (sound signature was way too dark for my taste and I refused to use EQ, on top of that one of the drivers died after a few hours of use) I ended up recovering the money and using it to fund some Stax, as I've never heard any Stax yet.

I started by looking to purchase the energizer, I was recommended the SRD-7 MK2 (pro bias) so that is what I bought. 

The thing is, it came together with a pair of *Lambda Pro Classic*, which aren't in the best cosmetic condition, but the seller confirmed they work perfectly. 

And my question is... are those Lambda Pro Classic even worth my time? Are they any good? I paid a little bit more than 300€ for the combo.


----------



## mnemonix (Mar 12, 2021)

https://stax.co.jp/products/srm-500t/




 



New valve energiser coming March 22nd, or was I just not paying attention?


----------



## 118900

mnemonix said:


> https://stax.co.jp/products/srm-500t/
> 
> 
> 
> New valve energiser coming March 22nd, or was I just not paying attention?


Probably looking to replace the ones they discontinued earlier. Wouldn’t surprise me if an SS version came out soon too


----------



## 118900

Markus9229 said:


> Hello everyone. After a disappointing experience with the Koss 95X, (sound signature was way too dark for my taste and I refused to use EQ, on top of that one of the drivers died after a few hours of use) I ended up recovering the money and using it to fund some Stax, as I've never heard any Stax yet.
> 
> I started by looking to purchase the energizer, I was recommended the SRD-7 MK2 (pro bias) so that is what I bought.
> 
> ...


Not sure I understand the question, if it was included in the package and you like it you keep it, if you don’t sell it or gift it forward. Win


----------



## Tugbars

Lambda pro is considered(and I agree) as one of the best examples of lambda series, assuming It's in a good working condition.


----------



## 118900

Markus9229 said:


> Hello everyone. After a disappointing experience with the Koss 95X, (sound signature was way too dark for my taste and I refused to use EQ, on top of that one of the drivers died after a few hours of use) I ended up recovering the money and using it to fund some Stax, as I've never heard any Stax yet.
> 
> I started by looking to purchase the energizer, I was recommended the SRD-7 MK2 (pro bias) so that is what I bought.
> 
> ...


Not sure what your opinion of reviews is but here’s one from stereophile that considers them highly.

https://www.stereophile.com/headphones/stax_sr-lambda_pro_classic_headphones/index.html


----------



## Markus9229

Tugbars said:


> Lambda pro is considered(and I agree) as one of the best examples of lambda series, assuming It's in a good working condition.


Right but this is the 10 year "anniversary" lambda pro, not the original lambda pro. Named lambda pro Classic or Spirit in Japan. It's basically the same design but cheaper, from what I've been told. So it won't sound the same either.



juansan said:


> Not sure what your opinion of reviews is but here’s one from stereophile that considers them highly.
> 
> https://www.stereophile.com/headphones/stax_sr-lambda_pro_classic_headphones/index.html


Yes, that is the only review I managed to find on them, even when looking by the japanese name "spirit"... 

They're not in great shape, which I think will make them a hard sell if I don't like them, considering these aren't too popular at all.


----------



## 118900 (Mar 12, 2021)

Markus9229 said:


> Right but this is the 10 year "anniversary" lambda pro, not the original lambda pro. Named lambda pro Classic or Spirit in Japan. It's basically the same design but cheaper, from what I've been told. So it won't sound the same either.
> 
> 
> Yes, that is the only review I managed to find on them, even when looking by the japanese name "spirit"...
> ...


Keep them if you like them or gift them. Shame to bin them.

maybe a budding audiophile in the family would gain from them. Have you listened to them? What are your thoughts?


----------



## Markus9229

juansan said:


> Keep them if you like them or gift them. Shame to bin them.
> 
> maybe a budding audiophile in the family would gain from them. Have you listened to them? What are your thoughts?



I'm still waiting for them to arrive... probably will take 2 weeks... I'm really impatient hehe. 

The thing is that I initially wanted some 404's (I think those would suit my tastes, but I've never heard any stax yet) and I only learned about these "pro classic" or "spirit" when I bought them with the energizer I planned to use with the 404. And since I didn't find much info I wanted to ask here.

But we'll see! I'm excited. Maybe they're not bad.


----------



## tabness

mnemonix said:


> https://stax.co.jp/products/srm-500t/
> 
> 
> 
> New valve energiser coming March 22nd, or was I just not paying attention?



looks like another rev of the classic T1 at a pretty reasonable price very nice

they were not selling the 006tS in America cause of some regulations so hopefully this sorts that out

looks like yet another reason for me to go and grab a 009 (anyone know if you can still get the 009 from Japan for around $2500 new still?)


----------



## 118900

Markus9229 said:


> I'm still waiting for them to arrive... probably will take 2 weeks... I'm really impatient hehe.
> 
> The thing is that I initially wanted some 404's (I think those would suit my tastes, but I've never heard any stax yet) and I only learned about these "pro classic" or "spirit" when I bought them with the energizer I planned to use with the 404. And since I didn't find much info I wanted to ask here.
> 
> But we'll see! I'm excited. Maybe they're not bad.


Sorry thought the package had arrived already. Let us know how they sound when they arrive, who knows, you may end up keeping them.  They had good reviews at the time (not that that is always a good indication).


----------



## chocolates

i feel like the sonic differences between amps and dacs are much more pronounced with louder listening volumes and nigh-indiscernible at softer volumes, but this doesn't seem to be brought up very often when discussing the matter. is this just me or is this already such a well-known fact that it's left unsaid?

for example, i rarely ever heard major differences between solid state regular headphone amps, despite many assertions to the contrary, but recently with the music turned up it's becoming apparent that there are noticeable sonic differences. i've also heard dac differences that i feel confident spotting in a blind test that i didn't notice prior to turning the volume up, and i believe the dacs have a similar line out voltage so i don't think there would be much question of improper volume matching.


----------



## Tugbars

chocolates said:


> i feel like the sonic differences between amps and dacs are much more pronounced with louder listening volumes and nigh-indiscernible at softer volumes.


Yes!


----------



## greggf

Tugbars said:


> Yes!


Yes!


----------



## Deolum

I also have a questions about amp.

I'm just listening to a SR007 Mk1. out of a SRM-1/Mk.2. Out of what i heard this shouldn't even work because SR007 is sooo hard to drive.

Well i have it on 65% volume and thats enough. I have plenty of space left and don't have any feeling that its underdriven. In fact it's the best sounding combination i've ever heard.

I know some people tend to overmystify amps. How often did i read "HD600 is impossible to drive from a solid state amp", "HD600 needs tubes", "HD600 needs so much power" and in the end its just a normal 300 Ohm can that works beautiful with solid state amps that are designed for medium-high impedance cans.

Now what about the Stax combi? How can something that is on 65% power be underdriven?


----------



## 118900 (Mar 14, 2021)

Deolum said:


> I also have a questions about amp.
> 
> I'm just listening to a SR007 Mk1. out of a SRM-1/Mk.2. Out of what i heard this shouldn't even work because SR007 is sooo hard to drive.
> 
> ...


Because the current demand  at frequency extremes is relatively high for the omegas/007s (due to the configuration of the drivers) which can sound dull  (high frequencies) and boomy/uncontrolled (low frequencies) without an adequate current supply above certain volumes. It is why Stax themselves developed the T2 amp for these earspeakers.

nothing to do with how dynamic HPs work so the comparison to the HD600 isn’t really pertinent.

edit:

to my knowledge the SRM-1/Mk.2 outputs 370 v which is more than some other Stax amps so although you definitely won’t hear the 007 at it’s best that is a far cry from saying “it shouldn’t even work”.


----------



## Philimon (Mar 15, 2021)

Hello Staxen.

I bought a SR-34pro combo. Correct me if I’m wrong, pro in this case simply means thinner micron diaphragm vs standard version. Anyone know if a SR-30pro is comparable to a standard SR-Xmk3?

I mistakenly thought the SR-Xpro was an electret. So based on it’s glowing reviews I thought Id try the littler (*cheaper*) SR-30pro.

It’s been over 10years since I tried a Stax. I had bought a used SRD7sb + Lambda for somewhere between $150-300. My goodness those vintage Lambdas have skyrocketed. Mine came with original packaging too. Id be rich right now!

Ive recently tried a Koss 95X, but it didnt have the resolution I recalled from Stax Lambda. The 95X was very smooth but soft and unengaging. I remember I specificially got rid of the Stax because it was too distracting for college studies. I also became interested in the then new resurgance of planar (HE-500) bass.

Today I’m listening to a vintage ortho.

eBay really wanted me to buy that electret. Sorry, no impressions yet - still in transit.


----------



## 118900

Philimon said:


> Hello Staxen.
> 
> I bought a SR-34pro combo. Correct me if I’m wrong, pro in this case simply means thinner micron diaphragm vs standard version. Anyone know if a SR-30pro is comparable to a standard SR-Xmk3?
> 
> ...


My first Stax was a second hand sr-84 pro combo bought cheap about 20 years ago. After that I was smitten and have never looked back.


----------



## robo24

Deolum said:


> I also have a questions about amp.
> 
> I'm just listening to a SR007 Mk1. out of a SRM-1/Mk.2. Out of what i heard this shouldn't even work because SR007 is sooo hard to drive.
> 
> ...


None of the amps Stax made when the SR007 was first released were even especially powerful, yet were presumably seen as good enough by Stax.


----------



## Markus9229

juansan said:


> Sorry thought the package had arrived already. Let us know how they sound when they arrive, who knows, you may end up keeping them.  They had good reviews at the time (not that that is always a good indication).


They arrived yesterday, turns out they were incredibly dusty and the inside of the cup is a bit of a horror to look at (due to the crumbled foam and other residue that settled in over time).
I did some very basic cleaning on the outside and a bit of gentle blowing on the inside so it would be at least somewhat hygienic and then tried them. They sound great!

 I went to sleep after about two hours of listening and unfortunately, when I tried them today there is a loud ticking noise on the left channel... audible even if I don't turn on my amp, only the energizer. This is similar to what happened to my Koss 95X, that started to make those noises shortly after I bought them.

I don't know why this happened, I barely even touched them and was really careful when I put them on or off. I already know there is no solution, and they were cheap, but it still saddens me a lot because I was starting to like them and barely got 2h of use out of them. Feeling really sad.


----------



## 118900

Markus9229 said:


> They arrived yesterday, turns out they were incredibly dusty and the inside of the cup is a bit of a horror to look at (due to the crumbled foam and other residue that settled in over time).
> I did some very basic cleaning on the outside and a bit of gentle blowing on the inside so it would be at least somewhat hygienic and then tried them. They sound great!
> 
> I went to sleep after about two hours of listening and unfortunately, when I tried them today there is a loud ticking noise on the left channel... audible even if I don't turn on my amp, only the energizer. This is similar to what happened to my Koss 95X, that started to make those noises shortly after I bought them.
> ...


Don’t ever “blow” or clean electrostatics that way, you risk blowing debris inside the stator and it starts to short, I know they might look horrible but cleaning without dismantling them properly is more dangerous than just leaving them alone and dismantling them needs care and attention unfortunately as they might even disintegrate. Really sad though it sounded like you were falling in love with the Stax sound 😞


----------



## timb5881

Well my stimulus check went to good Stax purchase!  A fellow in Russia had a set of Sigma pro’s and I bought them.  It is normal one converted to pro


----------



## Tarttett

Tugbars said:


> This is kind of off-topic. This is ES-1A - an Omega I inspired headphone designed and built by only one person who has experience in repairing Omega I's.
> 
> I've been comparing these to 007 and 009 back and forth since I received them like 7 hours ago. I think It's safe to say these are my favorites electrostatic headphones right now. These are just only slightly behind of 009 in terms of detail(and 009 may be sounding slightly more detailed because of it's weird peaks in mid range) while being not shy of slamming hard or rumble when the music is asking for it unlike 009. ES1A's bass tonality is on the "ethereal" side compared to 007's authoritative bass. That said, ES1A rumbles harder than on the 007. Mid tonality does not suffer from problems like 007's 2-4k recession or upper midrange bite of 009. There's a 3k peak which I actually find enjoyable however with bad recordings, that 3k peak can make things sound a bit shouty. There's also a 1-1.5k peak like all Stax headphones have, good news is that It's possible to reduce that peak by adjusting metal rings inside the assembly. ES1A has good amount of air between instruments but for a reason that I can't explain, I like 007's high treble performance more. Overall, 007 has better textured mids and treble while ES1A sounding just as much or more detailed(often) than 007.  Out of 3, ES1A has the largest soundstage, all 3 have similar depth and height in soundstage size but ES1A soundi even wider than 009. They are kind of heavy but I found ES-1A bit more comfortable than other 2. Both ES1A and 009 have laser precision separation while 007 falls slightly short and for reasons I can't explain 007's can do better layering and gives better spatial information(about the environment where the music was recorded / played). 007 and 009 have better imaging than ES1A(there are more & distinct layers in 007 and 009's soundstage where they position sounds).
> 
> ...


Hi.

I would be interested to know of how your impression of your ES-1a possibly has developed, in this time since your first day that you had listened to them.


----------



## Tarttett

tabness said:


> So I've been listening to the baby STAX for the last couple days. Quite interesting pair of phones.
> 
> Unfortunately, they were not the baby 009/S I had hoped for (closer to a baby Omega). Very mid focused phone, not much extension in the lows (expected) or highs (unexpected). Provides the typical electrostat sound outta nowhere experience, but missing that ultra clarity of the 009S/L500, and also obviously a smaller sense of space with less separation. Really nice timbre though, Omega like.
> 
> ...





tabness said:


> So I've been listening to the baby STAX for the last couple days. Quite interesting pair of phones.
> 
> Unfortunately, they were not the baby 009/S I had hoped for (closer to a baby Omega). Very mid focused phone, not much extension in the lows (expected) or highs (unexpected). Provides the typical electrostat sound outta nowhere experience, but missing that ultra clarity of the 009S/L500, and also obviously a smaller sense of space with less separation. Really nice timbre though, Omega like.
> 
> ...


Hi.

I would be interested to know of whether or not you still own your SR-003 MK2s.


----------



## tjlindle

First post on the forum and I definitely wanted it to be in the Stax thread. 

I spent an obscene amount of time upgrading my audio setup in 2020, and other than the first jump from random consumer wireless bluetooth headphones to a Senn HD 6XX, the biggest leap was going from dynamics in that tier to a Lambda Nova Classic. Good GOD that opened my music up in a way I'd never even imagined. That was my primary headphone (sorry "earspeaker," heh) for a while and I listened to a ton of City Pop and Jazz on it. I really can't wait to save up for the 007 (no, (un?)fortunately I'm not blowing my stim check on it), that will probably just have to be my endgame because I don't think I can go back to dynamics or planars after luxuriating in the stat sound. Other than the ER2XR which I still love and is an obscene value for the price.

Looking forward to reading through the rest of the thread.


----------



## Tugbars (Mar 18, 2021)

Tarttett said:


> Hi.
> 
> I would be interested to know of how your impression of your ES-1a possibly has developed, in this time since your first day that you had listened to them.


I like them even more now. : )They are built like a tank too.


----------



## Tarttett

Tugbars said:


> I like them even more now. : )They are built like a tank too.


Would you still consider the ES-1a to be more comfortable than the SR-007s, and the SR-009s?

Would you be able to explain to me what the difference is that you had described between separation, and imaging/layering? I am not certain of what it means for the ES-1a to possess superior separation to the SR-007s, while possessing inferior imaging/layering to them.


----------



## Tugbars (Mar 18, 2021)

In complex passages, some sounds tend to slightly blend with each other on 007. ES1A is better at separating sounds from each other in complex passages.  this was one of the songs I used to test separation. It gets quite busy after 3 minute mark.

ES1A's soundstage is  formed like a big ring while 007 and 009's soundstages are formed like multiple small rings. These rings don't overlap with each other. You get clearer information about the coordinates of sounds in the soundstage of 007 and 009. Probably that's what they call with " imaging with pinpoint accuracy", or laser precision imaging. 007 and 009 both sound holographic and 3D if the source is calling for it. The difference isn't huge though, 007 and 009 is just a bit better in this department than ES1A. If you'd swap between 009 and ES1A in ABX test, chances are one can't even distinguish one from another. Don't think ES1A doesn't offer any 3D Imaging, It does. 007 and 009 are just a bit better. ES1A shows relatively loose stopping behavior compared to other 2(according to measurements). That's understandable, the driver is 90mm and relatively way bigger than 007's and even 009's drivers. That may be the reason.


----------



## Philimon

SR-34 pro


----------



## Tarttett

Tugbars said:


> In complex passages, some sounds tend to slightly blend with each other on 007. ES1A is better at separating sounds from each other in complex passages.  this was one of the songs I used to test separation. It gets quite busy after 3 minute mark.
> 
> ES1A's soundstage is  formed like a big ring while 007 and 009's soundstages are formed like multiple small rings. These rings don't overlap with each other. You get clearer information about the coordinates of sounds in the soundstage of 007 and 009. Probably that's what they call with " imaging with pinpoint accuracy", or laser precision imaging. 007 and 009 both sound holographic and 3D if the source is calling for it. The difference isn't huge though, 007 and 009 is just a bit better in this department than ES1A. If you'd swap between 009 and ES1A in ABX test, chances are one can't even distinguish one from another. Don't think ES1A doesn't offer any 3D Imaging, It does. 007 and 009 are just a bit better. ES1A shows relatively loose stopping behavior compared to other 2(according to measurements). That's understandable, the driver is 90mm and relatively way bigger than 007's and even 009's drivers. That may be the reason.



Thank you for your explanation. I believe that I now understand what you meant.

Thank you, as well, for sharing that track. I believe that that would be a good track for me to use for listening tests, and, additionally, I enjoyed listening to that.

I believe that the ES-1a is heavier than the SR-009s, and additionally possesses a looser fit on the head. Have those factors resulted in you, at any times, feeling that you needed to be cautious, so that your ES-1a did not slip off your head?


----------



## Tarttett

Philimon said:


> SR-34 pro


Considering how they appear within your photos, the appearance of the SR-34s feels quite modern to me.


----------



## Philimon

I think they are a great looking headphone for the used price.

I only tried briefly right after powering on and they sounded quite bass-lite. I’ve let them warm up in the background since then but Im not expecting a big difference. Im sure the ebay seller tested/used before sale. I didnt notice a lack of volume or imbalance. These will likely be going to classifieds or return shortly.


----------



## DesignTaylor

Hey gang. I finally took the leap into electrostatics a few months back and I've fallen far down the rabbit hole. Now I'm starting to catalog my learnings and observations on my channel. This first video may be a little basic for the more experienced folks on the thread but I hope those who are just getting into STAX will find it useful. 

In the future, I'll have more videos on the SR-007 MKII, DCA Voce, and ES-1a along with some energizers.


----------



## Tugbars (Mar 19, 2021)

Tarttett said:


> Thank you for your explanation. I believe that I now understand what you meant.
> 
> Thank you, as well, for sharing that track. I believe that that would be a good track for me to use for listening tests, and, additionally, I enjoyed listening to that.
> 
> I believe that the ES-1a is heavier than the SR-009s, and additionally possesses a looser fit on the head. Have those factors resulted in you, at any times, feeling that you needed to be cautious, so that your ES-1a did not slip off your head?


Not really. (note that my head size is average and ears are very small) I can seal ES1A to my head to a good extent. It doesn't move when I'm moving my head. It's still a bit slippery on my head in comparison to 007 which can completely fit my head. To give you an example, I can't dance when I'm earing ES1A on, It'd slip off of my head. I can with 007. As long as I don't dance or do gymnastics while wearing ES1A they will stay where they are. In short, all 3 headphones are comfortable for me.  ES1A and 009 distribute weight in a way that they don't really feel very heavy. They are designed well in that regard.


----------



## Markus9229

juansan said:


> Don’t ever “blow” or clean electrostatics that way, you risk blowing debris inside the stator and it starts to short, I know they might look horrible but cleaning without dismantling them properly is more dangerous than just leaving them alone and dismantling them needs care and attention unfortunately as they might even disintegrate. Really sad though it sounded like you were falling in love with the Stax sound 😞



I took some time cleaning them, removing the crumbled back foam and washing the enclosure with water.
I discovered the back dust filter (the thin mylar film protecting the stator, not the foam on the cup) has a tear on one of the drivers, although not on the one that was making popping sounds.
I "fixed" that with a very very thin layer of transparent tape, as there is no other fix that I know of. Otherwise that is 100% guaranteed to let dust in the stator and completely ruin them.

They now sound great! No more popping noises, at least for now.


----------



## Tarttett

Tugbars said:


> Not really. (note that my head size is average and ears are very small) I can seal ES1A to my head to a good extent. It doesn't move when I'm moving my head. It's still a bit slippery on my head in comparison to 007 which can completely fit my head. To give you an example, I can't dance when I'm earing ES1A on, It'd slip off of my head. I can with 007. As long as I don't dance or do gymnastics while wearing ES1A they will stay where they are. In short, all 3 headphones are comfortable for me.  ES1A and 009 distribute weight in a way that they don't really feel very heavy. They are designed well in that regard.


Would you consider either your ES-1a, or your SR-009s, to be more "slippery" than the other set of headphones, or would you consider the two of them to be approximately equally "slippery"?


----------



## 118900

Tarttett said:


> Would you consider either your ES-1a, or your SR-009s, to be more "slippery" than the other set of headphones, or would you consider the two of them to be approximately equally "slippery"?


never give a man with GIPHY an opening like that......


----------



## Tarttett

Markus9229 said:


> I took some time cleaning them, removing the crumbled back foam and washing the enclosure with water.
> I discovered the back dust filter (the thin mylar film protecting the stator, not the foam on the cup) has a tear on one of the drivers, although not on the one that was making popping sounds.
> I "fixed" that with a very very thin layer of transparent tape, as there is no other fix that I know of. Otherwise that is 100% guaranteed to let dust in the stator and completely ruin them.
> 
> They now sound great! No more popping noises, at least for now.


That is good to hear that you appear to have resolved that problem that you had been experiencing for your SR-Lambda Pro Classics. I will hope that you will be able to continue to enjoy listening to them, for a lot of time to come.


----------



## 118900

Markus9229 said:


> I took some time cleaning them, removing the crumbled back foam and washing the enclosure with water.
> I discovered the back dust filter (the thin mylar film protecting the stator, not the foam on the cup) has a tear on one of the drivers, although not on the one that was making popping sounds.
> I "fixed" that with a very very thin layer of transparent tape, as there is no other fix that I know of. Otherwise that is 100% guaranteed to let dust in the stator and completely ruin them.
> 
> They now sound great! No more popping noises, at least for now.


👍 awesome. So what do you think?


----------



## DesignTaylor

Tarttett said:


> I believe that the ES-1a is heavier than the SR-009s, and additionally possesses a looser fit on the head.





Tugbars said:


> As long as I don't dance or do gymnastics while wearing ES1A they will stay where they are.



The ES-1a are not light but they are pretty comfortable. I can wear them all day without issue (although I am accustomed to some heavy woody headphones). The 007 seem crazy light and super comfy when I had them. Haven't tried the 009.

I have never liked the feel of the headband on the ES-1a. From the minute I got them out of the box it felt a bit floppy and the clamp as a little too loose (slippy) for my taste (but maybe I have a tiny head). I worked with Beson (the guy behind the ES-1a) to develop a revised version of the band that is a little more stout. If you end up ordering one and you are concerned about it you might inquire if he is willing to provide the alternative band, I gave him my CAD.



See if you can spot the difference


----------



## EJSorona

Hello. Which balanced DAC do you recommend for the SRM-353X that it cost no more than 800 US dollars? 
I was planning on buying an Ares II, which is an R2R DAC, but I'm also interested in some of the balanced DACs that Schiit offers, R2R or DS. 
Honestly, I don't trust Topping.
I also need it for a single-ended tube amp, thus I can make use of the RCA outs.


----------



## 118900

EJSorona said:


> Hello. Which balanced DAC do you recommend for the SRM-353X that it cost no more than 800 US dollars?
> I was planning on buying an Ares II, which is an R2R DAC, but I'm also interested in some of the balanced DACs that Schiit offers, R2R or DS.
> Honestly, I don't trust Topping.
> I also need it for a single-ended tube amp, thus I can make use of the RCA outs.


Any particular reason why it has to be balanced? Have you considered chord stuff like the qutest?


----------



## EJSorona

juansan said:


> Any particular reason why it has to be balanced? Have you considered chord stuff like the qutest?


Because the SRM-353X has balanced inputs. 
Also, that Chord Qutest is way outta my budget. 
I also had in mind the upcoming Geshelli DAC, which will replace the JNOG. If it has ESS Sabre chip, it might not be a good option.


----------



## chocolates

i like the bifrost 2 personally. used ones seem to go for about $600. the ares is a bit hyped up and has an inflated secondhand price right now anyway, it's actually cheaper to buy a brand new one if they're in stock


----------



## 118900

EJSorona said:


> Because the SRM-353X has balanced inputs.
> Also, that Chord Qutest is way outta my budget.
> I also had in mind the upcoming Geshelli DAC, which will replace the JNOG. If it has ESS Sabre chip, it might not be a good option.


It also has RCA inputs so even if a DAC was actually constructed as pure balanced you have a choice. You could consider looking for a second hand one, they are definitely worth it. Even the Mojo is an excellent DAC that punches above its weight.


----------



## EJSorona (Mar 20, 2021)

chocolates said:


> i like the bifrost 2 personally. used ones seem to go for about $600. the ares is a bit hyped up and has an inflated secondhand price right now anyway, it's actually cheaper to buy a brand new one if they're in stock


I  currently own a Modi 2 Uber. It works fine, but I think it's holding the rest of my equipment a little back.
I think the same regarding the Ares II, moreover because I have to get all this kind of stuff via an audio and musical equipment importer which doesn't deal with second-hand stuff. I can understand, they don't want problems, and much rather have a warranty in case something happens.
On a local online marketplace, there's one second-hand Schiit Gungnir MB, but not only is a bit too expensive* for me now, but, get this: the seller doesn't ship via mail or any sort of parcel delivery company. So, you have to pick it up personally at the seller's home. The excuse he uses is that "it's too fragile".

*Not only that. I consulted my trusty importer, and for about the same price that mulebrain asks for his second hand Gunmby, I can get a brand new one from Schiit via the importer.
Another guys on the same marketplace was selling a Magni 3 amp at a very good price, but that guy at least had the courtesy of clarifying that the low price was due to a small defect on the amp (humming or buzzing sound on high volume or in hi-gain mode).



juansan said:


> It also has RCA inputs so even if a DAC was actually constructed as pure balanced you have a choice. You could consider looking for a second hand one, they are definitely worth it. Even the Mojo is an excellent DAC that punches above its weight.


Kinda hard where I live, and most dealers that could get them from marketplaces abroad won't deal with second hand stuff. EDIT: Right now, at least on eBay, they are asking about the same price as a brand new one from Vinshineaudio. I rather have a fresh warranty.


----------



## EJSorona (Mar 20, 2021)

Besides that. I have another question.
On that same online marketplace from my country, one guys for a couple of years now has been trying to sell a vintage STAX combo: SR-X Mark III earspeakers and SRD-7 energizer.
I was tempted a couple of times, but the main turn off is the SRD-7 which requires either a receiver or a dedicated speaker amp. That energizer doesn't have RCA, XLR or any other modern inputs.
Suffice to say, both units look in great shape. Sure, the energizer has some very minor scuff marks, but that pretty much it, the earspeakers look really good, almost brand new, the owner sure is taking good care of them.
They aren't cheap, but way more affordable than, let's say, the 007 or the 009.
They also look built like a tank, much more sturdy than any of the Lambdas.
Do they really worth it? I already own the L700 MkII, which I'm surprised that not only the earcup retention studs, but also the yoke are made of metal. They are still frighteningly lightweight.
I would only need the SR-X, because I can plug them to the SRM-353X I ordered.
Another thing I read is that these old Stax earspeakers can have channel imbalance. Not really a dealbreaker since the SRM-353X has a channel imbalance offset or correction dial. Another thing to considerate is that the membrane isn't as protected as in modern earspeakers. One needs extra care.
They look so cool and old school.


----------



## bigjako (Mar 20, 2021)

if you’re using the 353, a solid state amp, I’d very much recommend the BF2. I just recently got the Jolida Glass FX tube dac (did you hear it won the AZ audiophile DACoff?!?!) too, with my SRD-7 and Emotiva Basx A-100 combo and its quite amazing as well, a lot more 3D holographic than the BF but less forceful. it’s still quite nice.  My worry is that listening on the 006ts, I’m doubling up the tubiness and losing some of the Staxen’s magical capacities up top. I am on the hunt for a Topping D90 just to see what exact opposite of the BF2 would sound like.  I may sell it but I just want to floor the high end detail to put the Stax through the paces.

I’ve also used the Modi MB, Khadas Toneboard and Modius with the Staxen.  The Modius was the most analytical and large of the three - the Khadas was small but detailed and the Mimby was small and smooth, to my recollection.

BTW, are Staxen the Stax owners or the earspeakers themselves?

edit to comment on your point about the SRD-7. As long as it has the bias to play the cans you have and you have a good speaker amp, it is absolutely wonderful.  I’ve been revisiting mine with the Emotiva and Jolida and I bang the desk a lot.


----------



## DesignTaylor

I've recently moved from a Qutest to the Border Patrol for my STAX rig. I love the Chord sound but with the e-stats the details were being emphasized too much, it was loosing its musicality and sounding a bit over produced.


----------



## bigjako (Mar 20, 2021)

DesignTaylor said:


> I've recently moved from a Qutest to the Border Patrol for my STAX rig. I love the Chord sound but with the e-stats the details were being emphasized too much, it was loosing its musicality and sounding a bit over produced.


The right DAC for Stax is probably the least-exploited content mine in audiophilia. Would love to hear about the Border Patrol compared to others, especially the ubiquitous BF2. Maybe a future episode?

If I were starting from scratch, I would be very interested in the Soekris 2541 right now. EJ may have better luck importing it to Argentina, too. Or even a deal on an old 1541.


----------



## chocolates

what are the differences between dacs people find most noticeable?


----------



## bigjako

I think it’s best to always compare the extremes first, then refine where you end up liking it.  Imagine the A to Z  spectrum - it’s better to test between A and Z, or between A and M and Z, instead of testing A vs B or X vs Z.  Not sure if you know what I mean, but I imagine testing the Ares vs the Mimby vs the BF2 is a lot more nuanced then the Ares vs the D90.  Then hone in on the part of the alphabet you gravitate to.

Right now I worry that I’ve overtubed the Stax path and have walled off some of their magical ability to sparkle without fatigue, so I’m interested in testing the polar opposite of the BF2 or Jolida, which I believe would be the D90.  I’d buy it planning to sell it again unless it tickled my treble fancy.  I’ve never heard Chord so can’t comment about that relatively popular path.

My only real strong opinion is that Stax can really present what a particular DAC is giving it, so don’t run them off your phone or a BTR5 or even a Modi.  In hindsight, going from Mimby to BF2 was a massive, high value upgrade.  Minor confession, I found the Uptone ISO regen improved the BF2, separating everything better and giving it stronger transients (I think), even with Unison.  Im going to move it over to the Jolida this week to see what it does for that.


----------



## catscratch

Bifrost 2 is very good for the price. I downgraded to one, if you can call it that, from more expensive dacs and I don't really feel like I'm missing much, except maybe some dynamic punch. It's got great mids and a very good tone to it and pairs nicely with Stax or just about anything. If the Yggdrasil is anything like it but with improved dynamics, then it should be my next dac.


----------



## 118900

chocolates said:


> what are the differences between dacs people find most noticeable?


When upgrading to my current set up I got floored by the 3D imaging and the apparent space between instruments. Some live recordings went from hearing crowd noise to actually being seemingly placed within the crowd (around you and between you and the band) with the band in the (near) distance. Music feels more realistic. Transients being clearer, something you hear very well with electrostats.

One thing that also became really apparent was that on recordings I had know for decades, sung words suddenly became clearer and easy to discern. I was beginning to understand all the lyrics of songs I had had difficulty with before.


----------



## EJSorona (Mar 20, 2021)

catscratch said:


> Bifrost 2 is very good for the price. I downgraded to one, if you can call it that, from more expensive dacs and I don't really feel like I'm missing much, except maybe some dynamic punch. It's got great mids and a very good tone to it and pairs nicely with Stax or just about anything. If the Yggdrasil is anything like it but with improved dynamics, then it should be my next dac.


Maybe you should also consider the Gungnir MB (or Gunmby). Nicknamed the "Yggy Jr". Some consider it to be 90% of what the Yggy is capable of, but at half the price. The delta-sigma variant of the Gungnir is even cheaper, right between the BF2 and the Gunmby.

In my case, I'll put the BF2 in the list. It's slightly cheaper than the Ares II, both are R2R, have RCA and XLR outs, and have an internal PSU. The BF2 comes with a remote control, which is nice, specially for speakers users. The Ares II has a voltage selector so it can be used everywhere, whereas the BF2 you have to order it specifically for either 120 or 230 volts.
The Ares II also has DSD support and different sampling filters. I think it mostly boils down to which one sounds better.


----------



## Tarttett

DesignTaylor said:


> The ES-1a are not light but they are pretty comfortable. I can wear them all day without issue (although I am accustomed to some heavy woody headphones). The 007 seem crazy light and super comfy when I had them. Haven't tried the 009.
> 
> I have never liked the feel of the headband on the ES-1a. From the minute I got them out of the box it felt a bit floppy and the clamp as a little too loose (slippy) for my taste (but maybe I have a tiny head). I worked with Beson (the guy behind the ES-1a) to develop a revised version of the band that is a little more stout. If you end up ordering one and you are concerned about it you might inquire if he is willing to provide the alternative band, I gave him my CAD.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing that information with me. I certainly would consider enquiring regarding that alternative head band, in the case that I order a set of ES-1as, at some point of time within the future.

I do need to admit to you, however, that I am not able to spot the difference for your alternative head band.


----------



## Tarttett (Mar 20, 2021)

DesignTaylor said:


> I have never liked the feel of the headband on the ES-1a. From the minute I got them out of the box it felt a bit floppy and the clamp as a little too loose (slippy) for my taste (but maybe I have a tiny head). I worked with Beson (the guy behind the ES-1a) to develop a revised version of the band that is a little more stout. If you end up ordering one and you are concerned about it you might inquire if he is willing to provide the alternative band, I gave him my CAD.
> 
> 
> 
> See if you can spot the difference


A feature of the design for the ES-1a that I now did notice, from looking at your picture, is that space that exists within the enclosures for the drivers. I previously had not realised that that space existed. It appears that the SR-Omegas also possess that space on the enclosures.

Would anybody within this thread know what the reason is for that design?


----------



## DesignTaylor

Tarttett said:


> I do need to admit to you, however, that I am not able to spot the difference for your alternative head band.


Yes, sorry, that was a joke. We tried to make it look very much like the original. It is a little thicker and has slightly different geometry.


----------



## 118900 (Mar 20, 2021)

Tarttett said:


> A feature of the design for the ES-1a that I now did notice, from looking at your picture, is that space that exists within the enclosures for the drivers. I previously had not realised that that space existed. It appears that the SR-Omegas also possess that space on the enclosures.
> 
> Would anybody within this thread know what the reason is for that design?


Allows you to listen with earrings 🤣


----------



## EJSorona

I read that there are ways to improve the bass on the Lambda earspeakers, at least the current production ones. One of them is by swapping the factory earpads with aftermarket ones (eg: Vesper audio), and the other is by doing the blu-tak or fun-tak mod, which means opening up the earcups and putting a ring made out of that adhesive dough or plasticine to create a seal, thus more resonance. 
What's your take on those mods?
PS: I can't seem to find Loctite fun-tak where I live, but there are the Patafix by UHU. They appear to be, basically, the same stuff: adhesive platicine that doesn't harden like epoxi-based doughs do, thus can be used several times.


----------



## chocolates

is a reliable visual difference between the lambda pro and lambda sig the color of the cable? i think i bought a lambda signature but i'm not sure as the pads are black, not brown


----------



## cucera

The frame of the Signature will be dark brown vs black with the Lambda Pro.


----------



## chocolates

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/c893762263

~$2.2k for a brand new 007mk1, whoever won is feeling pretty good i imagine


----------



## 118900

chocolates said:


> https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/c893762263
> 
> ~$2.2k for a brand new 007mk1, whoever won is feeling pretty good i imagine


"brand new"?


----------



## DougD

EJSorona said:


> ...
> On that same online marketplace from my country, one guys for a couple of years now has been trying to sell a vintage STAX combo: SR-X Mark III earspeakers and SRD-7 energizer.
> I was tempted a couple of times, but the main turn off is the SRD-7 which requires either a receiver or a dedicated speaker amp.
> ...
> I would only need the SR-X, because I can plug them to the SRM-353X I ordered.



Isn't the SRM-353X pro-bias only? The SR-X Mark III has the 6-pin connector and requires the lower voltage "normal" bias.


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## EJSorona (Mar 22, 2021)

DougD said:


> Isn't the SRM-353X pro-bias only? The SR-X Mark III has the 6-pin connector and requires the lower voltage "normal" bias.


Lemme check...Yeah, you're right. Both outputs on the 353X are for 5 pin plugs. There's also the SR-X Mark III Pro, which has a 5-pin pro-bias connector.
Well, it's a shame. For that money I can get a better DAC.
I'm new into the Stax world, and the devil is in the details.


----------



## DougD

EJSorona said:


> Lemme check...Yeah, you're right. Both outputs on the 353X are for 5 pin plugs. There's also the SR-X Mark III Pro, which has a 6-pin pro-bias connector.
> Well, it's a shame. For that money I can get a better DAC.
> I'm new into the Stax world, and the devil is in the details.


I think the SR-X Mark III Pro is a pretty rare duck. I haven't heard it, but I've owned the non-pro since buying it new in 1978. Getting a Lambda Pro of some type would probably be much easier, sound better, and be a better value. Will sound somewhat different than the current L-xxx models. And they work with amps that aren't so old and flakey.


----------



## EJSorona (Mar 22, 2021)

DougD said:


> I think the SR-X Mark III Pro is a pretty rare duck. I haven't heard it, but I've owned the non-pro since buying it new in 1978. Getting a Lambda Pro of some type would probably be much easier, sound better, and be a better value. Will sound somewhat different than the current L-xxx models. And they work with amps that aren't so old and flakey.


I already got a brand new L700 Mk II, so getting an older Lambda won't make much sense. Maybe if I had much more money I would go for those SR-X Mark III plus a receiver with enough watts per channel to power them, or get myself a dedicated speaker amp, tube or solid state.
Not now, like I said before, a better DAC will be a much better investment. Also, I have bad luck second hand appliances and electronic devices.
Still, thanks for pointing that out for me.


----------



## chocolates

juansan said:


> "brand new"?


okay, maybe more like barely used haha


----------



## DougD

EJSorona said:


> I already got a brand new L700 Mk II, so getting an older Lambda won't make much sense. Maybe if I had much more money I would go for those SR-X Mark III plus a receiver with enough watts per channel to power them, or get myself a dedicated speaker amp, tube or solid state.
> Not now, like I said before, a better DAC will be a much better investment. Also, I have bad luck second hand appliances and electronic devices.
> Still, thanks for pointing that out for me.


Well, most likely you're going to upgrade the DAC, and most likely you will ALSO acquire more headphones. 

So it's not an either/or here ... it's a question of relative timing and which happens first. In your shoes I'd go DAC next. 

That said, I don't exactly follow some of your thinking. The SR-X Mark III Pro came out in 1985, it's older than most Lambdas, and it'd be highly unlikely to be untouched NOS, so it's going to be used too. Due to its rarity, it's not going to be real cheap. It probably would sound MORE different from your L700 MkII than a lambda would, but unless you've done a thunderdome challenge, you can't be 100% sure that you actually prefer the sound of the L700 you have over a lambda ... some people prefer the older lambdas. And there's tons of lambdas still in circulation, so when you can find those not paired with an amp, the prices make the experiment a tolerable risk.

I'm not trying to push you hard. But if you like the Stax sound, don't arbitrarily rule out the possibility of adding an older Lambda to your headphone/earspeaker portfolio ... someday.  HTH.


----------



## EJSorona (Mar 22, 2021)

DougD said:


> Well, most likely you're going to upgrade the DAC, and most likely you will ALSO acquire more headphones.
> 
> So it's not an either/or here ... it's a question of relative timing and which happens first. In your shoes I'd go DAC next.
> 
> ...


Abso-bloody-lutely, mate. The one that this local guy is selling is a regular SR-X Mark III and SRD-7, normal bias, 6-pin. I never expected it to be NOS, but they look well preserved, the SRD has some minor scuff marks, but otherwise it looks quite in good shape. Other guy was selling an SR-5 Gold with, IIRC, an SRD-5, but either he sold it or just gave up and kept the units. 
Some people told me that the SR-X sounds more laid back than the L700.
The funny thing is that, right now, I don't know how my L700Mk II sounds because the energizer will arrive, if everything goes well, this Friday.
My only limiter is money, I would love to own that SR-X Mk III and SRD-7 combo plus either a speaker amp or receiver (the current owner said to me that something like a vintage Marantz receiver with enough watts per channel will do). The same goes for other DACs, headphones. 
Living in a third world country kinda has its advantages. Most people won't fork the equivalent in our currency to 1000+ US dollars on some weird, used earspeakers (we can't even call them headphones), that requires a speaker amp. Most people here listen to music on their mobile phones or those god-forsaken, portable bluetooth speakers.


----------



## Mach3

chocolates said:


> https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/c893762263
> 
> ~$2.2k for a brand new 007mk1, whoever won is feeling pretty good i imagine


The earspeaker looks like new condition. But that box looks ravaged to say the least.
Also to confuse matter that a later version of the 007mk1.

There are actually 3 version of 007mk1, earliest one came with a carbon fibre case (not real carbon fibre vinyl skin crap) serial early 70XXX
Later ones with high serial 7XXXX came with the standard case. Then the later Mk1 came with serial SZ1###

I hunted one down for like 3 years for the carbon fibre case, only to find that it fake. Made my blood boiled.


----------



## playmusic

And now Stax has discontinued the SRM-353X.
I quite liked it when I listened to it with a SR-009S in a shop once.

I am eagerly waiting for the new products that will hopefully be presented sometime by Stax.
The new Stax Omega?


----------



## EJSorona

playmusic said:


> And now Stax has discontinued the SRM-353X.
> I quite liked it when I listened to it with a SR-009S in a shop once.
> 
> I am eagerly waiting for the new products that will hopefully be presented sometime by Stax.
> The new Stax Omega?


Really, do you have a source that states so? 
The 353XBK is no longer in production because it was a special edition for the 80th anniversary of STAX. 
The other one that is discontinued is the 323S, which is the predecessor of the 353X. They looks pretty much the same, 'cept that the 53X has balanced ins and a manual selector to switch from XLR to RCA in.


----------



## chocolates

Mach3 said:


> The earspeaker looks like new condition. But that box looks ravaged to say the least.
> Also to confuse matter that a later version of the 007mk1.
> 
> There are actually 3 version of 007mk1, earliest one came with a carbon fibre case (not real carbon fibre vinyl skin crap) serial early 70XXX
> ...


do we know what the sound differences are like? mine's an SZ1 but i've never heard any other 007 (mk1 or mk2 or otherwise)


----------



## Markus9229

juansan said:


> 👍 awesome. So what do you think?



They sound very nice. Tons of speed, finally I know what that means!

Bass is how I like it, although I've noticed the pads seem to cause it to lose bass power because they're not properly glued to the very end of the frame so the little space that's left seems to affect it negatively.

I want to fix that, but due to unexpected circumstances I have a pair of AKG K1000 being delivered tomorrow, and I'll be a bit busy with that I think 

I would have never expected to have both Stax and K1000's in the span of one week. Not only that but I have a DAS-703 being delivered this friday... 


I guess I'll be pretty entertained for a while


----------



## Eich1eeF

EJSorona said:


> The 353XBK is no longer in production because it was a special edition for the 80th anniversary of STAX.
> The other one that is discontinued is the 323S, which is the predecessor of the 353X. They looks pretty much the same, 'cept that the 53X has balanced ins and a manual selector to switch from XLR to RCA in.


The 353X is listed as "sold out" on https://staxaudio.com/driver/stax-srm-353x

No idea if that is temporary or permanent.


----------



## chocolates

that's just the us dealer - woo audio i think, if memory serves. i think the product is removed entirely when it's discontinued


----------



## 118900 (Mar 23, 2021)

chocolates said:


> that's just the us dealer - woo audio i think, if memory serves. i think the product is removed entirely when it's discontinued


it has been removed entirely from the English version of Stax’s Japanese website


----------



## EJSorona

Eich1eeF said:


> The 353X is listed as "sold out" on https://staxaudio.com/driver/stax-srm-353x
> 
> No idea if that is temporary or permanent.


That's the 120V, but 100V japanese models are still available. The 353X I ordered in early-mid January is a 100V one because the one in 120V or 230/220V ones were sold out, or more expensive, or very hard to get, and my dealer doesn't work with second hand goods, even if they are in excellent condition. 
Maybe I'll get mine modify so it works at 230v 50hz without needing step-down converters. Still, I really happy to be a Stax owner.


----------



## 118900

I’ve just realised his lordship is viewing the thread.....


----------



## bigjako

Ok, I'll bite - who's the lord?


----------



## Tarttett

EJSorona said:


> Really, do you have a source that states so?
> The 353XBK is no longer in production because it was a special edition for the 80th anniversary of STAX.
> The other one that is discontinued is the 323S, which is the predecessor of the 353X. They looks pretty much the same, 'cept that the 53X has balanced ins and a manual selector to switch from XLR to RCA in.





Eich1eeF said:


> The 353X is listed as "sold out" on https://staxaudio.com/driver/stax-srm-353x
> 
> No idea if that is temporary or permanent.





chocolates said:


> that's just the us dealer - woo audio i think, if memory serves. i think the product is removed entirely when it's discontinued


There is a notice within STAX's Japanese website, that was posted yesterday, that states that the production for the SRM-353X has been discontinued. Here is a link to that notice: https://stax.co.jp/2021/03/23/353dis/.


----------



## Tarttett

Markus9229 said:


> They sound very nice. Tons of speed, finally I know what that means!
> 
> Bass is how I like it, although I've noticed the pads seem to cause it to lose bass power because they're not properly glued to the very end of the frame so the little space that's left seems to affect it negatively.
> 
> ...


Congratulations to you, for acquiring all of your vintage pieces of equipment. I will hope that you will receive a lot of enjoyment from your "new" collection.


----------



## Tarttett

bigjako said:


> Ok, I'll bite - who's the lord?


I believe that @juansan probably would be referencing Kevin Gilmore.


----------



## 118900

Tarttett said:


> I believe that @juansan probably would be referencing Kevin Gilmore.


----------



## EJSorona

Tarttett said:


> There is a notice within STAX's Japanese website, that was posted yesterday, that states that the production for the SRM-353X has been discontinued. Here is a link to that notice: https://stax.co.jp/2021/03/23/353dis/.


Well, it's official. I wanted the source and I got it. Thanks.
It's kinda sad, but the lack of new stock from official dealers was a telltale. I guess there's more demand for the D10 "portable" amp, or some peopel would rather spend a little more and go for a 727II.


----------



## gilency

juansan said:


> I’ve just realised his lordship is viewing the thread.....


LOL
You are quite right. Kevin is amazing.


----------



## paradoxper

Sycophants!


----------



## Mach3

I don't remember them sounding different last time I tested them. But that was before I got the KGSSHV.
When I get the chance the test them. I will let you know. Been super busy with my 1 year old son.
In the mean time here more info on the lines of SR-007

I'll quote one of the Stax Mafia here:

SR-007 Mk1 early version - different driver frame plus some minor material changes, older style carbon fiber box.
SR-007 Mk1 late version - the version tested here and the most common of the Mk1's, S/N either 7xxxx or SZ1-xxxx

SR-007A/SR-007Mk2 - S/N SZ2-xxxx, Stax change the earpads, how they sit and introduce a port to the earcups. Sound is a mixed bag depending on fit but can be fixed to sound pretty much like the Mk1.

SR-007A/SR-007Mk2 - S/N SZ3-xxxx, often called the Mk2.5, Stax supposedly change the diaphragm which results in a much more forward sound signature.


----------



## 118900 (Mar 25, 2021)

If I’m going to heap praise it will be on people that make the effort to develop and enhance the field and even openly release the technical drawings for others to peer review, use and develop further and then remain open to discussion for the benefit of the entire community.

so yes, I’m a “fan” of pioneers like that and proud of showing my support for people that do that. 

Especially considering the disgraceful stuff some others get up to to take advantage of those less in the know and to get rich off their backs.

Anyway, jealousy will poison your mind, let it go... 🤣


----------



## 118900

Mach3 said:


> I don't remember them sounding different last time I tested them. But that was before I got the KGSSHV.
> When I get the chance the test them. I will let you know. Been super busy with my 1 year old son.
> In the mean time here more info on the lines of SR-007
> 
> ...


Isn’t there a later version of the mk2 dubbed the mk2.9 which resolved many of the issues of the 2.5?


----------



## Tarttett

paradoxper said:


> Sycophants!


For you to say that, from all of the people within this entire forum!


----------



## 118900

Tarttett said:


> For you to say that, from all of the people within this entire forum!


He’s just jealous we got to it first! 🤣😜


----------



## Tugbars (Mar 25, 2021)

I prefer 007 mk 2.9 without metal springs(& port modded) over other 007 variants. After getting rid of metal springs, I can hear significant amount of more detail especially in treble range and bringing ears closer to the driver fixes 900-1300hz peak of 007. The initial goal of spring mod is to bring ears closer to drivers, taking those metal springs out just brings it to next level. If you are into experimenting new stuff and if you have a lot of experience in changing 007 pads, I'd recommend you guys to give it a try. Make sure to use a credit card or something flat to fit pads properly onto the headphone assembly or sub bass can get a bit wonky. I've tried this with mk 2.9 pads.(mk 2.5 pads are different, results may be different). With my previous ESS dac this mod was making my headphones sound too bright and even sibilant but with Soekris 2541 everything sounds fine to my ears.





I am not sure I feel like I can also hear more in 2-7khz range after this mod which is slightly recessed with mk 2.9. Probably taking metal springs out brings some problems as well, however with my dumb ears I can't really put my finger on what the problem might be without metal springs if there is any. I can only hear improvements. Note that, after this mod it's not possible to swirl pads around.


----------



## Tarttett (Mar 25, 2021)

Mach3 said:


> I don't remember them sounding different last time I tested them. But that was before I got the KGSSHV.
> When I get the chance the test them. I will let you know. Been super busy with my 1 year old son.
> In the mean time here more info on the lines of SR-007
> 
> ...


I am not certain that what that person had stated is correct. It has appeared to me that all of the sets of SR-007As possess a serial number that begins with SZ2, and that all of the sets of SR-007MK2s possess a serial number that begins with SZ3.


----------



## paradoxper

juansan said:


> He’s just jealous we got to it first! 🤣😜


You cheeky...


----------



## 118900

paradoxper said:


> You cheeky...


🤣


----------



## elton7033

Tugbars said:


> I prefer 007 mk 2.9 without metal springs(& port modded) over other 007 variants. After getting rid of metal springs, I can hear significant amount of more detail especially in treble range and bringing ears closer to the driver fixes 900-1300hz peak of 007. The initial goal of spring mod is to bring ears closer to drivers, taking those metal springs out just brings it to next level. If you are into experimenting new stuff and if you have a lot of experience in changing 007 pads, I'd recommend you guys to give it a try. Make sure to use a credit card or something flat to fit pads properly onto the headphone assembly or sub bass can get a bit wonky. I've tried this with mk 2.9 pads.(mk 2.5 pads are different, results may be different). With my previous ESS dac this mod was making my headphones sound too bright and even sibilant but with Soekris 2541 everything sounds fine to my ears.
> 
> 
> I am not sure I feel like I can also hear more in 2-7khz range after this mod which is slightly recessed with mk 2.9. Probably taking metal springs out brings some problems as well, however with my dumb ears I can't really put my finger on what the problem might be without metal springs if there is any. I can only hear improvements. Note that, after this mod it's not possible to swirl pads around.


this is interesting, I will try to take out the metal spring on my 007Mk1 tonight hope it really make a different, but again I will need the patient of a saint to put the pads back on.


----------



## jimmychan

Hello, I have been longing to buy a STAX headphone. Currently I am using Focal Utopia and T1.
I am looking for a STAX model that can better than Focal Utopia, so this a upgrade for me.
All suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,


----------



## catscratch

So I did - finally - port mod the 007A, and yes it did improve the bass, and improve clarity overall. Before, I felt like the original 007 outresolved the 007A by a noticeable margin, but the port mod clears things up a bit in the mids and now they sound about equal in resolution, though this is just first impressions. The bass is now very impressive, linear, deep, and very tactile. I don't really hear any downsides to doing this, so it's very much recommended. The mod takes all of 5 minutes to do, and then another 20 minutes of loud swearing while you try to put the pads back on.

The main issue I have now is that the headband elastics are way too short, and keep pulling the headphones upwards and out of position. Given how incredibly sensitive the 007 is to positioning in general, it's extremely annoying and pretty much requires me to hold these in place with my hands while listening. So the next step is to try and extend the elastics, probably by sewing some sort of material to them to lengthen them a bit. I expect I'll need a few tries to get it right. On that note, if you ever changed the headband strap out on a 007 - what sort of adhesive do you use to hold the headband elastics to the plastic?

Haven't messed with the springs, but when the headband gets sorted, that might be next. Though you can also simulate some of that by just bending the headband to apply more clamping force.

I don't get why Stax absolutely cannot get their ergonomics straight after decades, but maybe they did with the 009, I haven't tried one. But they need to revise their earlier models... If only the 007A had a proper adjustable headband and fixed its bass port shenanigans. If only it had midrange tembre like my EQd L700. And if only the L700 had bass like the 007A, or didn't vice clamp my ears to death after 15 minutes, or require aftermarket headband pieces to fit on my head at all. There's so much potential in there and the technical performance is quite unlike anything else, but the lack of polish on seemingly all their products is really annoying.

Oh, and I'm guessing the discontinued earlier amps will be replaced by something very similar, given how they've operated over the last 20-odd years.


----------



## Tugbars (Mar 26, 2021)

elton7033 said:


> this is interesting, I will try to take out the metal spring on my 007Mk1 tonight hope it really make a different, but again I will need the patient of a saint to put the pads back on.


MkI's drivers are close enough to the ear. (MKI metal springs are 2cm wider in diameter than mk2.5/2.9 metal springs. ) Probably there won't be much audible difference. Let us know about your experience after you apply the mod though.


----------



## petitpierre

hello
i would like to start in electrostat world and i would like to know what would you advise me between a stax 2050II and a koss esp 95x?
thank you


----------



## Tugbars

petitpierre said:


> hello
> i would like to start in electrostat world and i would like to know what would you advise me between a stax 2050II and a koss esp 95x?
> thank you


They are very different from each other. Stax 202/207 sounds like a studio monitor while koss esp 95X being mid centric & mellow.


----------



## bigjako

jimmychan said:


> Hello, I have been longing to buy a STAX headphone. Currently I am using Focal Utopia and T1.
> I am looking for a STAX model that can better than Focal Utopia, so this a upgrade for me.
> All suggestions are welcome.
> 
> Thanks,


If you’re looking for Stax that represent an upgrade from the Utopia, I think your only options would be the 007 and 009. I have not heard any of those 3, so here’s where I’ll tap out.  My reading impressions make me think the 007 may get you closest to the Utopias in the bass, but 009 will give you the clarity.


----------



## Andrew Seeley (Mar 26, 2021)

If you need a definitive upgrade to the Utopia you need an 009S or 009. And a good mid ranged amplifier for either of them. My vote goes to a (modified) 727A/II or T1/S/W.

Optional Mjolnir Audio Amplfiers as well as a BHSE, certainly driving the 009 very well. These are what I've compared the Utopia to the 009 and L300 from.

All of the lambdas are pleasing,
A lambda sig and SR Lambda are probably best aside from l300LE and l700, Lambda Nova Sig' are standouts too

I think you're after an 009 or the Koss esp 95x through a midrange amp or bigger and a Lambda normal bias, if you use an SRM T1...

I meant to post but the phone died. So i nabbed the laptop to finish editing.
Just an opinion. And one more: I can say that others in this thread also appreciate the original normal biased Sr Lambda. 

May something be found you find excellent.


----------



## elton7033

Tugbars said:


> MkI's drivers are close enough to the ear. (MKI metal springs are 2cm wider in diameter than mk2.5/2.9 metal springs. ) Probably there won't be much audible difference. Let us know about your experience after you apply the mod though.


Should I still use the mashed dust filter without the metal ring/spring?


----------



## Tugbars

elton7033 said:


> Should I still use the mashed dust filter without the metal ring/spring?


I'd still use them to protect the diaphragm


----------



## Audio Addict (Mar 27, 2021)

jimmychan said:


> Hello, I have been longing to buy a STAX headphone. Currently I am using Focal Utopia and T1.
> I am looking for a STAX model that can better than Focal Utopia, so this a upgrade for me.
> All suggestions are welcome.
> 
> Thanks,


I think if you are upgrading into the Stax rabbit hole you need to look at the whole environment needed which includes the amp.  I have a Utopia connected through a RSA Apache and made the jump to the SR009 with the RSA A-10 Thunderbolt II.  Just hearing the SR009 at shows never pushed me to want it.   When I heard this pairing, I knew it was only a matter of time.   I lasted 14 months 😆


----------



## petitpierre

hello
do you think a sigma normal bias and a srd7 for 199 $ is a good deal ?
thanks


----------



## bigjako

petitpierre said:


> hello
> do you think a sigma normal bias and a srd7 for 199 $ is a good deal ?
> thanks


If you don’t take that deal, I will.  Where did you find it? It is a good deal if it works.


----------



## timb5881 (Mar 30, 2021)

There is a normal bias Sigma from Italy on eBay but it is over $900


----------



## timb5881

bigjako said:


> If you don’t take that deal, I will.  Where did you find it? It is a good deal if it works.


Even if it does not work but otherwise in good cosmetic shape it would be a great deal


----------



## bwck2000

timb5881 said:


> Even if it does not work but otherwise in good cosmetic shape it would be a great deal


Even if it does not work and not in a good cosmetic shape it would be a great deal


----------



## timb5881

Ya at that price.  As long as they can be salvaged with new drivers and the housing is not damaged.


----------



## bigjako

I guess the overwhelming consensus is jump on that deal and if you don't, you have a queue of us who would take it.  I'd give you a finder's fee if you don't take them and hook me up with the seller and you can keep the SRD-7.  I just bought a Sigma from ES Labs with the 404 drivers., I'd be very curious to compare.


----------



## timb5881

What is the difference with pads on the various Lambda?  Can one be used on all Lambda or is the size differences?


----------



## petitpierre

thank you very much for your answers !someone offers me a srs 3030 for 470$ and i was hesitant between the two
one is 40 years old and the other half younger...
 a good day to everyone!


----------



## bigjako

petitpierre said:


> thank you very much for your answers !someone offers me a srs 3030 for 470$ and i was hesitant between the two
> one is 40 years old and the other half younger...
> a good day to everyone!


If this is your first Stax and you could only choose one, I think I’d recommend the 3030 combo.  The Sigma is quite different from the magical, airy Stax sound to me so far. It’s like a warm blanket.  If you can, get both.  But if you don’t get the Sigma, I’ll take it!


----------



## 118900

bigjako said:


> If this is your first Stax and you could only choose one, I think I’d recommend the 3030 combo.  The Sigma is quite different from the magical, airy Stax sound to me so far. It’s like a warm blanket.  If you can, get both.  But if you don’t get the Sigma, I’ll take it!


My first electrostatic was the 3030
Combo, hooked me right in


----------



## chocolates

well, i bought that italian sigma after some negotiating. looking forward to how it sounds but not how it looks on my head


----------



## petitpierre

i finally made the deal for the purchase of the sigma low bias + srd 7
thank you for your help


----------



## csl67

Is it possible to have the 007t CSS modded? More importantly is it worth the current increase or will it still stumble with a 007 mk2?


----------



## 118900

csl67 said:


> Is it possible to have the 007t CSS modded? More importantly is it worth the current increase or will it still stumble with a 007 mk2?


Spritzer at mjolnir audio has some he has CSS modified (although he does other changes to them as well) and he says they work a treat for 007s. Here is a link to the relevant section on his website to read up more (you have to scroll down to reach the relevant amp)

https://mjolnir-audio.com/used-amplifiers/


----------



## petitpierre

hi all
i just got the sigma srd7 set and how to say...
it does not have a definition with ascalpel but that it is fluid,delicate while being alive...
i use a cd player and i have the impression of listening to vinyls...
it is warm without exaggeration....it's sweet as a caramel candy...what a sweetness!!!!!!!


----------



## 118900

petitpierre said:


> hi all
> i just got the sigma srd7 set and how to say...
> it does not have a definition with ascalpel but that it is fluid,delicate while being alive...
> i use a cd player and i have the impression of listening to vinyls...
> it is warm without exaggeration....it's sweet as a caramel candy...what a sweetness!!!!!!!


Glad you like it. Enjoy 👍


----------



## streamenterer

petitpierre said:


> hi all
> i just got the sigma srd7 set and how to say...
> it does not have a definition with ascalpel but that it is fluid,delicate while being alive...
> i use a cd player and i have the impression of listening to vinyls...
> it is warm without exaggeration....it's sweet as a caramel candy...what a sweetness!!!!!!!


Interesting about vinyl. I listen to both CD (not streaming/files) and vinyl on my Konka amp with Lambda Nova Sig or 407s and find the difference between them not nearly so great as on my SET/horn setup. Vinyl sounds great. but CD doesn't sound that much worse, while on speakers it's background listening only.


----------



## number1sixerfan

jimmychan said:


> Hello, I have been longing to buy a STAX headphone. Currently I am using Focal Utopia and T1.
> I am looking for a STAX model that can better than Focal Utopia, so this a upgrade for me.
> All suggestions are welcome.
> 
> Thanks,



Just about all stax are very different from the Utopia. Just depends on what you're looking for. I would probably say the 007 is the best choice if you truly love the Utopia. But if you're looking for something quite a bit better and refined, more resolving.. would look at the 009.


----------



## elton7033

number1sixerfan said:


> Just about all stax are very different from the Utopia. Just depends on what you're looking for. I would probably say the 007 is the best choice if you truly love the Utopia. But if you're looking for something quite a bit better and refined, more resolving.. would look at the 009.


Yes, I agree with that, I am a Utopia owner myself and the Stax SR007Mk1 are the closest thing to the Focal Utopia basically a better Utopia in many ways.


----------



## petitpierre

hello
i still find that the sigma srd7 are a good combo but after making a comparison with my verum one, i find the latter better on many aspects.
better balance,better dynamics,higher definition and more material.is it the same with the other stax système?


----------



## petitpierre

i'm the french grumpy in all its splendor...i find the stax combo really interesting and maybe i have to hear the more recent versions


----------



## 60smusicrules

I just read that a successor is available for the SRM-006ts energizer. Has anyone tried the SRM-500T yet?


----------



## chocolates

petitpierre said:


> hello
> i still find that the sigma srd7 are a good combo but after making a comparison with my verum one, i find the latter better on many aspects.
> better balance,better dynamics,higher definition and more material.is it the same with the other stax système?


which SRD-7 do you have? some of them don't have their own internal transformer to provide bias and instead use the audio signal to do that, which will lead to pretty poor results. i think the good one is the SRD-7 mk2? someone else can correct me if i'm wrong


----------



## timb5881

chocolates said:


> which SRD-7 do you have? some of them don't have their own internal transformer to provide bias and instead use the audio signal to do that, which will lead to pretty poor results. i think the good one is the SRD-7 mk2? someone else can correct me if i'm wrong


There are at least 3 SRD-7.  The standard bias that uses an AC for the bias, the SRD-7 SB which is the self bias model no AC, and there us the SRD-7 Pro which is the pro bias version.


----------



## Sajid Amit

number1sixerfan said:


> Just about all stax are very different from the Utopia. Just depends on what you're looking for. I would probably say the 007 is the best choice if you truly love the Utopia. But if you're looking for something quite a bit better and refined, more resolving.. would look at the 009.


That makes sense.


----------



## Tugbars (Apr 13, 2021)

Honestly, 007 is the most refined sounding Omega out of all. Maybe It's a bit too refined, too in control and that's why it sounds dull for some. It doesn't deliver any excitement & euphoria. 009 sacrifices refinement(refiness?) for wider soundstage & faster decay. 009's treble can get out of control, getting bright even without the source calling for it. 009's bass is so fast that it can't deliver bass anymore. 009S fixes these issues to an extent but is not enough.

I have ES1A, 007mkII(heavily modded) and 009S, all three and been comparing them since 2 months. I mostly listen to classical music(contemporary stuff) and IDM. I use mostly 009S and ES1A, because they sound more open and offer more euphoric experience however when I compare them to 007, I always end up thinking that 007 is a better designed/engineered headphone. It is less faulty and balanced in general: goes never out of control in any frequency range, soundstage is better controlled  etc etc.


----------



## 118900

Tugbars said:


> Honestly, 007 is the most refined sounding Omega out of all. Maybe It's a bit too refined, too in control and that's why it sounds dull for some. It doesn't deliver any excitement & euphoria. 009 sacrifices refinement(refiness?) for wider soundstage & faster decay. 009's treble can get out of control, getting bright even without the source calling for it. 009's bass is so fast that it can't deliver bass anymore. 009S fixes these issues to an extent but is not enough.
> 
> I have ES1A, 007mkII(heavily modded) and 009S, all three and been comparing them since 2 months. I mostly listen to classical music(contemporary stuff) and IDM. I use mostly 009S and ES1A, because they sound more open and offer more euphoric experience however when I compare them to 007, I always end up thinking that 007 is a better designed/engineered headphone. It is less faulty and balanced in general: goes never out of control in any frequency range, soundstage is better controlled  etc etc.


If a 007 is amplified correctly it is anything but dull. It may not be as bright as some of the other Stax offerings (which many criticise as sounding overly bright) but it definitely isn’t “dull”.

Compared to “dark” sounding headphones like the Audeze LCD-4z my 007 mk2s are a world away sounding far “brighter” and clearer.

I think it is probable that people are hearing the 007s from a number of Stax amplifiers which often cannot provide the current necessary to bring out the top frequencies and thus make them sound “dull” in comparison to the other Stax offerings which are a) inherently brighter and b) easier to drive (hence “brighter” still).

The importance of adequate amplification for the 007s cannot be highlighted enough.


----------



## bigjako

I've been up to a few experiments with my Staxen lately - I'll post highlights below but won't go into a lot of detail on either point because I think it's too early to fully explain what I'm hearing.

*CCS-Modding my 006t*
Thanks to Dominik I got the CCS parts shipped to LA and had my local amp guy (Mike Check) install it into my 006t.  At first, I was concerned something was off with it - some songs sounded worse than before but it was hard to pinpoint.  As JimL said:


> "This basically eliminates the signal current wastage of the plate resistor, allowing the output tubes to supply more than double the amount of current to the headphones, while decreasing the overall load on the tubes, which also decreases distortion. Thus, the high frequency signals are stronger, as is the bass, resulting in the difference in sound signature you hear. I believe it is more faithful to the source, but it may or may not be more pleasant to hear. I think the mod is sonically pretty transparent."


It runs a lot hotter now, but I think what I was hearing was even less distortion, and the microdetail artifacts now came out of it more clearly.  I think it may sound less tubey now, or it's compensated for the tube smoothing things over.  I've settled in with it and will be able to compare it to a Bottlehead Stat in a couple weeks.  

*ES Labs 404 Sigma*
I bought this from ES Labs.  When I first got it, like an idiot, I just naturally put the headphones on with the thicker part in the back.  I found that the sound was thin and diffuse and only realized as I was listening to some left-right balance checks that I had them on backwards.  Two days of listening to them backwards.  Anyways, now that they're right-way around, they sound  a lot better, but they are still quite diffuse.  No sub-bass and the treble is rolled off, but the mids are quite clean and the vocals come through.  Upper bass/lower mids is where I think these differ from the stock Stax sound.  They are like Stax wrapped in a warm woolen blanket.  They're like a cross between Stax and Nighthawks.  But they are still Stax and the high end comes through, it's just more muted relative to the standard presentation.  I can't say these are all rounders, I think to be honest it was a novelty for me to try it, but they really work well with acoustic and jazz and classical.  I just don't listen to those as often as rock so these are special-use kinda things.  ES labs takes an old 404 driver and puts them into their own 3D printed cups, so my experience is not the same as an actual Sigma.

Separately, I've been experimenting with sorbothane squares on my Stax and I can say that the sorbothane had the greatest impact on these Sigmas, maybe because they have some much more vibration possibilities with these massive plastic cups/vestibules.

*BF2 vs D90*
I have been loving my 006 with my BF2, but one of the first things that I loved with Stax was how well the high end was.  It totally got me away from dynamic and planars and made me actually seek out songs that featured the treble .  I think Stax are so capable of delivering the sparkle, shimmer and air up there - but I was worried I was tubing them too much with both the BF2 and the 006 and maybe not letting the ear speakers open themselves up.  So I kept my eye out for a D90, as the mid-fi polar opposite of the BF2, so I could compare them.  My plan was to trial the D90, not hear a difference, and sell it on after having the chance to listen to it.  After a day of listening (only a day), I'm surprised to say that I prefer the D90 with the Stax (mainly on the L300LE).  The best way I can explain it is that if you imagine the music as peaks and valleys, there is more of a difference in distance between those peaks and valleys with the D90, there's a wider delta between the floor and the ceiling, and that gives a more holographic/3D stage, where I can more clearly separate sounds.  Now, when I go back to the BF2 it feels slightly less dynamic.  It's not major, and it took me half an hour to begin to identify the difference - but it's clearly there for me now, I can't unhear the diff.  

I suspect that if I used a solid state amp, that the BF2 would work better with it.  I just don't currently have a SS to try it on, so I'm <gasp> considering selling the BF2 until I save up for a Carbon.


----------



## elton7033

Tugbars said:


> Honestly, 007 is the most refined sounding Omega out of all. Maybe It's a bit too refined, too in control and that's why it sounds dull for some. It doesn't deliver any excitement & euphoria. 009 sacrifices refinement(refiness?) for wider soundstage & faster decay. 009's treble can get out of control, getting bright even without the source calling for it. 009's bass is so fast that it can't deliver bass anymore. 009S fixes these issues to an extent but is not enough.
> 
> I have ES1A, 007mkII(heavily modded) and 009S, all three and been comparing them since 2 months. I mostly listen to classical music(contemporary stuff) and IDM. I use mostly 009S and ES1A, because they sound more open and offer more euphoric experience however when I compare them to 007, I always end up thinking that 007 is a better designed/engineered headphone. It is less faulty and balanced in general: goes never out of control in any frequency range, soundstage is better controlled  etc etc.


Time for your to buy the original Omega lol


----------



## elton7033 (Apr 13, 2021)

juansan said:


> If a 007 is amplified correctly it is anything but dull. It may not be as bright as some of the other Stax offerings (which many criticise as sounding overly bright) but it definitely isn’t “dull”.
> 
> Compared to “dark” sounding headphones like the Audeze LCD-4z my 007 mk2s are a world away sounding far “brighter” and clearer.
> 
> ...


That's so true, in my opinion as an ex-727 owner, most STAX amp are overprice with performance which doesn't match its price at all. I sometime wish DIY people will just commercialize high-end electrostatic amp like how people did with normal dynamic amps, just imagine what if Mjölnir Audio or head-amp start mass producing BHSE & KGSSHV Carbon and distribute it worldwide with big store, the price will drop and more people with have better experience with electrostatic headphone which might even have a positive effect to encourage STAX to produce something even better may be a better headphone to match those amp like our long waited SR011 Omega3.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Apr 14, 2021)

Tugbars said:


> Honestly, 007 is the most refined sounding Omega out of all. Maybe It's a bit too refined, too in control and that's why it sounds dull for some. It doesn't deliver any excitement & euphoria. 009 sacrifices refinement(refiness?) for wider soundstage & faster decay. 009's treble can get out of control, getting bright even without the source calling for it. 009's bass is so fast that it can't deliver bass anymore. 009S fixes these issues to an extent but is not enough.



I would have to disagree greatly with almost all of this (and that's ok, that's a part of the hobby ). I'm not sure how you define "refinement", but when I refer to it, I mean subtle improvements in clarity, resolution and technical ability. Outside of bass (quantity, not quality), the 009 takes everything the 007 does and does it 'better'. The 009 is far more resolving and has greater clarity and detail than the 007--it is just technically better all around no doubt. Where I do agree is that the treble can definitely get out of hand on certain tracks and definitely with an already bright or clinical source. That's its main weakness.

The 007 is also not dull or boring whatsoever--but I am strictly talking the MK1 and maybe that's where the gap is. The 007 is one of the most incredibly balanced headphones I've ever heard. All of the liveliness and speed of the stats in general, but with no brightness whatsoever. Sound is a bit thicker and warmer, but I wouldn't describe it as dark (can understand this a bit more compared to brighter cans though) or dull at all. And especially not with how lively the bass is (although it could be slightly tighter). It's only real weakness is not being as resolving as the 009, TC, Susvara etc. It's one step below refinement wise to all of those, but not by far--which is essentially my assessment of the Utopia's placement as well.

All that said, can understand why some would prefer one over the other.


----------



## Swann36 (Apr 14, 2021)

Hello all, I have read quite a lot of this thread over the last couple of weeks from start to around page 300 ish .. then did searches for the L300 LEs & 353X but didn't find them discussed much unless i've missed a thread somehow ? so now i've jumped here to get some opinions of what i have as a set up ... i must admit i'm rather nervous of the response as my reading seems all about the SR 007s & SR 009s and very expensive energisers with little time / comments given to the "lesser" stax from what i've seen.

Stax L300 Limited Editions and Stax 353XB (the matching limited edition energiser) i also have a set of Stax SR-X Mk3s that Birgir modded to run at pro bias to my ears these 2 give the best hp listening i have experienced ... the full set up currently is Musical Fidelity A5 CDP via analogue outs to a Benchamrk Dac1 HDR doing duty as a pre (set to fixed output) into the 353 via the balanced XLRs ... i will add that i suffer from tinnitus in my right ear as well as some hearing loss in that ear so the ability to have a "higher volume" into the right ear allows me to balance very effectively to get a good stereo sound.

Previously i have used in the same set up as far as the BenchMark Dac1 HDR and then used that as the headamp into MrSpeakers Ethers, Audioquest Nighthawks and Ultrasone Edition 8s ...i do at times stream into the BM from spotify.. i've put these 3 in order of my preference.

I should add that i also have used the non stax hps with the JDS Labs EL Stack (Dac & Amp combo) as well as the BM ... the BM is better to my ears although the JDS Labs set up was good.

I do find the L300 LEs more comfortable than the SR-X Mk3s perhaps as they are over ear rather than on ear so they are my main preference between the 2

Thoughts appreciated ...please be gentle on a newbie here my lack of technical knowledge about this kit makes me feel full of trepidation putting my head above the parapet to actually post .... having said that i'm keen to learn

Oh music is very often jazz both vocal and instrumental, sinatra, some classical piano based, some bowie, dire straits type pop and some opera if that helps give a feel for my taste


----------



## 118900 (Apr 14, 2021)

Swann36 said:


> Hello all, I have read quite a lot of this thread over the last couple of weeks from start to around page 300 ish .. then did searches for the L300 LEs & 353X but didn't find them discussed much unless i've missed a thread somehow ? so now i've jumped here to get some opinions of what i have as a set up ... i must admit i'm rather nervous of the response as my reading seems all about the SR 007s & SR 009s and very expensive energisers with little time / comments given to the "lesser" stax from what i've seen.
> 
> Stax L300 Limited Editions and Stax 353XB (the matching limited edition energiser) i also have a set of Stax SR-X Mk3s that Birgir modded to run at pro bias to my ears these 2 give the best hp listening i have experienced ... the full set up currently is Musical Fidelity A5 CDP via analogue outs to a Benchamrk Dac1 HDR doing duty as a pre (set to fixed output) into the 353 via the balanced XLRs ... i will add that i suffer from tinnitus in my right ear as well as some hearing loss in that ear so the ability to have a "higher volume" into the right ear allows me to balance very effectively to get a good stereo sound.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the club and enjoy yourself. Birgir’s modifications on amps and speakers alike are exquisite by the way, I have a modified amp myself and couldn’t be happier.


----------



## DesignTaylor

Swann36 said:


> then did searches for the L300 LEs & 353X but didn't find them discussed much unless i've missed a thread somehow


I think the L300 LTD are fantastic and great value for the dollar. If you want to increase comfort you can purchase the L700 earpads which are much nicer. If the cheap L300 plastic headband ever gives you trouble that is also upgradable to the L700 metal version.


----------



## buzzlulu

I have the L300LE/353XBK combo however I mostly run it on a Birgir Carbon (along with my 009S).

Other than comfort do the L700 pads change the sound of the L300LE?


----------



## bigjako

I use an L300 LE on a modded 006t and to me, it’s my own personal TOTL experience.  Detailed and punchy. Sometimes I will run the NB Lambdas, which give more of a sweet experience, but missing some of the fine grained details. I can’t pick my favorite between the two, but the L300 LE gives much more of the details and slams harder.  I will likely get one of the 007 (too planar-like!), 009 (too expensive!) or the ES1a (too ???!) but that will also require spending a couple grand on a new energizer so I’m not in a rush and enjoy Lambda-land.

Enjoy yours and wait for the shows to happen again before diving into The 00’s.


----------



## Tugbars (Apr 14, 2021)

Swann36 said:


> Hello all, I have read quite a lot of this thread over the last couple of weeks from start to around page 300 ish .. then did searches for the L300 LEs & 353X but didn't find them discussed much unless i've missed a thread somehow ? so now i've jumped here to get some opinions of what i have as a set up ... i must admit i'm rather nervous of the response as my reading seems all about the SR 007s & SR 009s and very expensive energisers with little time / comments given to the "lesser" stax from what i've seen.
> 
> Stax L300 Limited Editions and Stax 353XB (the matching limited edition energiser) i also have a set of Stax SR-X Mk3s that Birgir modded to run at pro bias to my ears these 2 give the best hp listening i have experienced ... the full set up currently is Musical Fidelity A5 CDP via analogue outs to a Benchamrk Dac1 HDR doing duty as a pre (set to fixed output) into the 353 via the balanced XLRs ... i will add that i suffer from tinnitus in my right ear as well as some hearing loss in that ear so the ability to have a "higher volume" into the right ear allows me to balance very effectively to get a good stereo sound.
> 
> ...


L300 has it's own dedicated thread probably that's why this thread is focused on 007/009 and alternatives more. 353X is a great amp, you don't need a huge bulky amp for L300LE or SRX mk3 pro to make them shine.  Does SRX mk3 pro(with SRX mk3 Normal Bias drivers) sound more detailed than L300LE to you? I've heard that Mk3 pro's are one of the most detailed sounding headphones Stax ever put out.


----------



## robo24

L300 thread with a lot of discussion of the LE in the 2nd half of all pages, primarily about pad differences. May be new toy syndrome, but having just acquired the regular L300 I'm shocked how much I like it compared to the SR-007MKII, especially given the price difference. The L300 is just so engaging, exciting, with a lot of detail and musicality, especially on EDM. The presentation is just so different from my other headphones. It's my new favorite fun headphone, and after some pad swapping to my ears, thicker pads are far more comfortable but eliminate the magic I'm getting out of them.


----------



## chocolates

bigjako said:


> *BF2 vs D90*
> I have been loving my 006 with my BF2, but one of the first things that I loved with Stax was how well the high end was.  It totally got me away from dynamic and planars and made me actually seek out songs that featured the treble .  I think Stax are so capable of delivering the sparkle, shimmer and air up there - but I was worried I was tubing them too much with both the BF2 and the 006 and maybe not letting the ear speakers open themselves up.  So I kept my eye out for a D90, as the mid-fi polar opposite of the BF2, so I could compare them.  My plan was to trial the D90, not hear a difference, and sell it on after having the chance to listen to it.  After a day of listening (only a day), I'm surprised to say that I prefer the D90 with the Stax (mainly on the L300LE).  The best way I can explain it is that if you imagine the music as peaks and valleys, there is more of a difference in distance between those peaks and valleys with the D90, there's a wider delta between the floor and the ceiling, and that gives a more holographic/3D stage, where I can more clearly separate sounds.  Now, when I go back to the BF2 it feels slightly less dynamic.  It's not major, and it took me half an hour to begin to identify the difference - but it's clearly there for me now, I can't unhear the diff.
> 
> I suspect that if I used a solid state amp, that the BF2 would work better with it.  I just don't currently have a SS to try it on, so I'm <gasp> considering selling the BF2 until I save up for a Carbon.


this one is interesting to me - i've heard a fair number of people comment on the BF2 vs the slew of well-measuring chi-fi dacs like topping, SMSL, etc. and quite a few people call out the BF2 as having much better macrodynamics. i'm not too sure myself since i currently only have the BF2 on hand but i thought it was interesting you had a different experience (not that it's wrong or anything!)

incidentally, where did you put the sorbothane on your sigma?


----------



## Swann36

robo24 said:


> L300 thread with a lot of discussion of the LE in the 2nd half of all pages, primarily about pad differences. May be new toy syndrome, but having just acquired the regular L300 I'm shocked how much I like it compared to the SR-007MKII, especially given the price difference. The L300 is just so engaging, exciting, with a lot of detail and musicality, especially on EDM. The presentation is just so different from my other headphones. It's my new favorite fun headphone, and after some pad swapping to my ears, thicker pads are far more comfortable but eliminate the magic I'm getting out of them.



Thanks for the link to the thread ... some how i'd missed that ... my searching words just diddn't get it ... yes to my ears lots of musical detail ...


----------



## Swann36

DesignTaylor said:


> I think the L300 LTD are fantastic and great value for the dollar. If you want to increase comfort you can purchase the L700 earpads which are much nicer. If the cheap L300 plastic headband ever gives you trouble that is also upgradable to the L700 metal version.



Thanks for your thoughts .. i've got some Brainwavz earpads along with SoCas mod bits after seeing Zs utube review


----------



## Swann36

Tugbars said:


> L300 has it's own dedicated thread probably that's why this thread is focused on 007/009 and alternatives more. 353X is a great amp, you don't need a huge bulky amp for L300LE or SRX mk3 pro to make them shine.  Does SRX mk3 pro(with SRX mk3 Normal Bias drivers) sound more detailed than L300LE to you? I've heard that Mk3 pro's are one of the most detailed sounding headphones Stax ever put out.



Thats really interestin about the Mk3s as mine are converted to pro bias by Birgir and do sound great ... with lots of detail and at the same time i know Birgir said he'd deliberately darkened them a bit ..which i'm fine with because of the tinnitus .. thanks for your reply


----------



## BenF

robo24 said:


> L300 thread with a lot of discussion of the LE in the 2nd half of all pages, primarily about pad differences. May be new toy syndrome, but having just acquired the regular L300 I'm shocked how much I like it compared to the SR-007MKII, especially given the price difference. The L300 is just so engaging, exciting, with a lot of detail and musicality, especially on EDM. The presentation is just so different from my other headphones.


I was equally shocked with my L300 - it's second only to 009, I like it better than L300 LTD, L700 or 007Mk2.



robo24 said:


> ... It's my new favorite fun headphone, and after some pad swapping to my ears, thicker pads are far more comfortable but eliminate the magic I'm getting out of them.


I do prefer L300 with its original pads too, using L500 pads (turning L300 into L500) makes L300 much less exciting, reducing the airiness in the treble.


----------



## bigjako

chocolates said:


> this one is interesting to me - i've heard a fair number of people comment on the BF2 vs the slew of well-measuring chi-fi dacs like topping, SMSL, etc. and quite a few people call out the BF2 as having much better macrodynamics. i'm not too sure myself since i currently only have the BF2 on hand but i thought it was interesting you had a different experience (not that it's wrong or anything!)
> 
> incidentally, where did you put the sorbothane on your sigma?


Yeah, I was expecting to hear something artificially exaggerated based on a lot of my past readings.  A few months ago I exchanged some DMs on here with someone who said they found great synergy with the D90 and Stax, that the D90 gave a big and holographic soundstage to the Stax, and that the Stax was able to properly execute the high-end coming from the D90 (some have said the D90 is thin and can be piercing up high).  I love my BF2, but I wanted to test what the polar opposite of it's hefty, warm signature and hear this holographic soundstage.  I have always gravitated towards warm, wet thick sound sigs, but when I first heard a Lambda NB on a SRD7 with a cheap car stereo amp, I was hooked.  I had been hiding from the treble, but the way in which the Stax so effortlessly and beautifully presented it, like a prima ballerina, opened my world from Nighthawks/EMU Teaks/Argons (and even Sundara/LCD2C tbh) to the fluid, fast, accurate and musical nature of Stax.  RR1 and Hives didn't do it either - so it wasn't elecrostats, it was Stax. for me.  That first experience was with a Modius, and a Khadas Toneboard, for reference.  

Anyways, I digress.  One of my concerns as I upgraded from the SRD7 and SRD-X to the T1S/006t along with the BF2 (and a Jolida Glass) was that I was layering tubes on top of tubes and covering over the effervescent shimmery sparkly sprites that I loved so much. So I wanted to trial the D90 to either validate or eliminate that.  I'm sure that the D90 is doing some extrapolating and processing, and I hate having to use complicated UIs like the D90's, but my experience has been that the D90 has a wider and taller soundstage, and does a better job of fighting through the tubes to force the details out.  The BF2 is like a wall or a wave of wonderful sound, the D90 is like a rainstorm of sound (?), where you can more clearly hear and feel the different placements.  

On the downside, I detect a slight unnaturalness with the D90.  Not one I'd hear without being able to immediately A/B between them, but the BF2 had the edge there.  Yesterday I listened to both the D90 and BF2 with the 404 Sigmas, and due to the nature of the housing, the sparkle is muted and some of the high end details are too - but the soundstage was still larger on the D90, to me.  I think DesignTaylor referenced listening to Stax as less like you're lounging in a chair, and more like you're sitting up, actively 'listening' to the music.  Stax can reach out and grab your attention.  I personally have never had an issue just zoning out while listening to Stax, but I understand the analogy and I think the D90 does a better job at that sitting-up, focused listening where the BF2 is for the leather chair-and-whiskey time.  And I think my main caveat to what I'm saying is if you have a 252/353/717/727/KGSS(HV) then the BF2 will likely be the better pairing for those.  I haven't really referenced it much, because it's in a different setup and only works with my normal bias Lambdas, but the Jolida Glass has a similar signature to the BF2 but is really quite amazing at three-dimensionality - but that is a warm DAC with a solid state speaker amp, so I find it more balanced and plays with the high end of the NB Lambdas better. 

One example: I was A/Bing between the D90 and BF2 yesterday, listening to Soolaimon by Neil Diamond, a song I've listened to many times.  The drums at the beginning had a more natural sound on the BF2, but on the D90 for the first time I felt like I could clearly hear that they were being struck twice (ie, the four fingers and the thumb, separately).  A microsecond or 10 apart. I went back to the BF2 and now that I knew what I was listening for, I could detect it there too, but they were much more blended together and the separation between thumb and fingers wasn't as apparent.  It felt more like the hand hitting it once than two parts striking slightly separately.  

Re: the sorbothane, I cut them up into little 1-2cm squares, and would place 2 at a time all over the plastic housing (all on the outside).  Some where the cable enters, some on the headband, some on the thicker plastic strips running along the outside rim of the housing.  At first, it was a disaster (like when you bang a bongo drum that is sitting solidly on the floor, no reverb or whatever that is).  As I removed some, it got much much better and now I just a have a few of them scattered around.  It tames the reverberation (and I think distortion) but too much is worse than too little (thanks to John Wimberley for the guidance, though they talk a lot about that in the original thread I linked to).


----------



## Tugbars

all dacs used in NMR applications are R-2R for a reason.


----------



## DesignTaylor

I'm a big fan of the Chord Qutest for its ability to extract detail, create space, and still maintain a natural presentation. But lately, I've been really enjoying the BorderPatrol DAC with my electrostat gear. If you A/B test the Qutest seems more immediately engaging, but after longer listening sessions with both I tend to prefer the fluid and natural presentation of the BP.


----------



## chocolates

thanks for the thorough writeup @bigjako - that sounds more or less like what people distill the differences to! the BF2 is really an underrated piece of equipment - far better i think than the other dacs around its price point


----------



## kevin gilmore (Apr 15, 2021)

Tugbars said:


> all dacs used in NMR applications are R-2R for a reason.


All the Varian NMR's ever made used dual 12 bit dacs for the room temperature shim coils. Reason, they were ultra cheap. (And crap, and they burned up all the time)
The only other dac in the entire system is in the pulsed field gradient driver. A specialty 14 bit part was used for this. Definitely not audio capable.

The current Bruker avance 4 consoles use ESS delta sigma parts for the room temperature shim coils. No idea what was inside the pfg driver.

The A/D converters are completely different animals entirely, run at 20mhz and are 14 equivalent bits. Essentially an early version of DSD.


----------



## ultimanium

Hi! 

I've got an SRM-1/MK2 I want to pre-emptively recap. 
I found https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-srm-1-mk2-re-cap.648596/, but have a few questions I was hoping people could answer!

1: I think I found the  Panasonic FM EEU-FM1V471, I'm fairly certain amazon has them here. Digikey/Mouser both have a long lead time.
2: I can't find the Panasonic EET-ED2G221CA, any ideas for a replacement? What am I looking for in a replacement? I know I need to have a snap on capacitor, at least the voltage and capacitance rating, and something that fits in the original footprint. Is it just ESR I need to look for? Is lower better flat out better here, or do I want to aim for a match with the original?
3: Spritzer says that "Remember the labels for the pots are swapped on the PCB so offset is balance etc.". That just means when I'm doing the balacing/offset as described here that for Part A I actually adjust the pot labelled offset, and for Part B I adjust the pot labelled balance. Do all SRM-1/MK2s have this swapped, or do I need to check this?
4: Should I re-apply some kind of tape to keep the pots from changing after adjustment, like they come stock? 
5: I have a 100 V model with the selector switch area covered by a plate. Is there a guide for converting that to 120V? It's as simple as reconnecting a cable to the correct spot, right? 

I plan on taking it apart tonight and getting some detailed photos,  but looking through the grates it appears identical to this.

Thanks for any help!

I do have experience soldering, so once I figure out the capacitors to get, I don't think I will have much trouble replacing them!


----------



## astromaddie

I saw this come up on a local market, and I don't know enough electronics to make much sense of it (though it is very cleanly made). It's pro-bias but also has speaker output options. Seems to have first-stage 12AU7, driver-stage 12BH7, and quad output 2A3 tubes. Is this worth a purchase for my 007A?


----------



## timb5881

astromaddie said:


> I saw this come up on a local market, and I don't know enough electronics to make much sense of it (though it is very cleanly made). It's pro-bias but also has speaker output options. Seems to have first-stage 12AU7, driver-stage 12BH7, and quad output 2A3 tubes. Is this worth a purchase for my 007A?


I would audition it before laying down your money.   Also, who designed and built it would be helpful


----------



## ultimanium

Here's some quick pictures of the amp internals. Looks identical to the one in the thread I linked here. I'm a bit confused as to how to wire it up for 120V, although it appears to support that configuration!

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks!


----------



## Tugbars

kevin gilmore said:


> All the Varian NMR's ever made used dual 12 bit dacs for the room temperature shim coils. Reason, they were ultra cheap. (And crap, and they burned up all the time)
> The only other dac in the entire system is in the pulsed field gradient driver. A specialty 14 bit part was used for this. Definitely not audio capable.
> 
> The current Bruker avance 4 consoles use ESS delta sigma parts for the room temperature shim coils. No idea what was inside the pfg driver.
> ...


https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dac11001a.pdf?ts=1618552492970

this is the best precision DAC available in the market as far as I know.


----------



## 118900

kevin gilmore said:


> All the Varian NMR's ever made used dual 12 bit dacs for the room temperature shim coils. Reason, they were ultra cheap. (And crap, and they burned up all the time)
> The only other dac in the entire system is in the pulsed field gradient driver. A specialty 14 bit part was used for this. Definitely not audio capable.
> 
> The current Bruker avance 4 consoles use ESS delta sigma parts for the room temperature shim coils. No idea what was inside the pfg driver.
> ...


On a slightly different topic (and my apologies for side tracking) are there issues on the “other site” that you know of? I haven’t been able to access it for a week almost.


----------



## astromaddie (Apr 16, 2021)

timb5881 said:


> I would audition it before laying down your money.   Also, who designed and built it would be helpful


It was designed (and seemingly built?) by a local engineer who's published articles in a major tube quarterly magazine here, but I wouldn't be able to try it out before buying it. Especially since covid, people are mostly just selling things online recently.

Edit: One more piece I can add is that it does seem to have a constant current source... but I'm not entirely sure of that one.


----------



## chocolates

ultimanium said:


> Here's some quick pictures of the amp internals. Looks identical to the one in the thread I linked here. I'm a bit confused as to how to wire it up for 120V, although it appears to support that configuration!
> 
> Any help would be much appreciated, thanks!


you might get more help on head-case or by emailing spritzer/kg but i believe you just need to jump two of the sockets; you'll probably want to check out which transformer windings are paired to which socket though

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-srm-1-mk2-100v-to-240v-conversion-is-this-correct.872626/


----------



## kevin gilmore

that particular unit has the 100v only sticker on the back. So you will have to fix the transformer, and then do the correct jumpers by hand.
the missing voltage plug has a number of jumpers in it.


----------



## Deolum

Do Stax benefit from balanced connection between dac and amp?


----------



## astromaddie

astromaddie said:


> I saw this come up on a local market, and I don't know enough electronics to make much sense of it (though it is very cleanly made). It's pro-bias but also has speaker output options. Seems to have first-stage 12AU7, driver-stage 12BH7, and quad output 2A3 tubes. Is this worth a purchase for my 007A?


Just wanted to bump this again, am I incorrect in thinking that it looks a lot like a modified T2? From comparing schematics to what I'm seeing here, there are a lot of similarities, though obviously it's not the same since this can handle speaker output too.


----------



## Swann36

bigjako said:


> I use an L300 LE on a modded 006t and to me, it’s my own personal TOTL experience.  Detailed and punchy. Sometimes I will run the NB Lambdas, which give more of a sweet experience, but missing some of the fine grained details. I can’t pick my favorite between the two, but the L300 LE gives much more of the details and slams harder.  I will likely get one of the 007 (too planar-like!), 009 (too expensive!) or the ES1a (too ???!) but that will also require spending a couple grand on a new energizer so I’m not in a rush and enjoy Lambda-land.
> 
> Enjoy yours and wait for the shows to happen again before diving into The 00’s.



Thanks for replying and thats interesting to know ... and i will wait till the shows start again hopefully later this year or 2022


----------



## Swann36

Tugbars said:


> L300 has it's own dedicated thread probably that's why this thread is focused on 007/009 and alternatives more. 353X is a great amp, you don't need a huge bulky amp for L300LE or SRX mk3 pro to make them shine.  Does SRX mk3 pro(with SRX mk3 Normal Bias drivers) sound more detailed than L300LE to you? I've heard that Mk3 pro's are one of the most detailed sounding headphones Stax ever put out.



Thanks for the reply ...its good to know that the 353X is considered a great amp .. comforting for me .. on the SRX Mk3 question ...i'd have to agree that it's a smidge more detailed ...i know that Birgir tuned mine to be slightly darker than they would otherwise of been which suits me really well due to tinnitus in my right ear ... they both sound great to my ears ..i'm not sure what more i could get from moving further up the chain but different amps and the 007s or 009s are only things i can read about for now ... roll on shows to go and hear


----------



## Swann36

robo24 said:


> L300 thread with a lot of discussion of the LE in the 2nd half of all pages, primarily about pad differences. May be new toy syndrome, but having just acquired the regular L300 I'm shocked how much I like it compared to the SR-007MKII, especially given the price difference. The L300 is just so engaging, exciting, with a lot of detail and musicality, especially on EDM. The presentation is just so different from my other headphones. It's my new favorite fun headphone, and after some pad swapping to my ears, thicker pads are far more comfortable but eliminate the magic I'm getting out of them.



Thanks for the repy ..i've found the thread and are avidly reading from the beginning as i'm keen to see what others think before the LEs and then after they came out 

EDM .... electronic dance music ?


----------



## 118900

Swann36 said:


> Thanks for the repy ..i've found the thread and are avidly reading from the beginning as i'm keen to see what others think before the LEs and then after they came out
> 
> EDM .... electronic dance music ?


Yes


----------



## 118900 (Apr 17, 2021)

Deolum said:


> Do Stax benefit from balanced connection between dac and amp?


I think that depends on the source, whether it is a true balanced design, or whether you would need the extra power or not, etc. I know that Rob Watts of chord has posted several times that the balanced outputs on their DACs add an extra component to the signal path with actually decreases transparency very very slightly, however I have no idea whatsoever as to whether someone could pick up on such a difference or even hear the sonic “benefits” of balanced connections  on short cable runs.

I guess it’s a question of try it and see. I’m using SE and I’m perfectly happy with the choice.

also remember that older Stax amps have a different wiring selection relative to US or European balanced if I recall correctly.


----------



## Deolum

juansan said:


> I think that depends on the source, whether it is a true balanced design, or whether you would need the extra power or not, etc. I know that Rob Watts of chord has posted several times that the balanced outputs on their DACs add an extra component to the signal path with actually decreases transparency very very slightly, however I have no idea whatsoever as to whether someone could pick up on such a difference or even hear the sonic “benefits” of balanced connections  on short cable runs.
> 
> I guess it’s a question of try it and see. I’m using SE and I’m perfectly happy with the choice.
> 
> also remember that older Stax amps have a different wiring selection relative to US or European balanced if I recall correctly.


But does the Stax connector equal that of XLR or SE? I'm only asking because of the volume.


----------



## 118900 (Apr 17, 2021)

Deolum said:


> But does the Stax connector equal that of XLR or SE? I'm only asking because of the volume.


The volume depends on the source output, not the receiver.

https://www.boxcast.com/blog/balanced-vs.-unbalanced-audio-whats-the-difference


----------



## kevin gilmore

that is nothing like a t2. transformer output.


----------



## astromaddie

kevin gilmore said:


> that is nothing like a t2. transformer output.


I was confused about that. It clearly has transformer output but also tube output. Could the transformer be for speaker output? It’s a toggle between Stax and speaker, rather than simultaneous output.


----------



## kevin gilmore (Apr 17, 2021)

Something has to be the load for the output tubes. In a T2 it is solid state cascoded current sources. In this amplifier the load is the transformers. Stax hooked up to the high side of the transformers (primary) speakers hooked up to the secondary. There are a number of other amplifiers that have had stax hooked to the transformer primaries. Usually when you do this there is some resistive load on the output of the transformer.

T2 is a completely dc coupled amplifier. This thing is ac coupled everywhere. T2 has a slew rate of more than 100v/us. This thing is much slower.
Still, its really nicely built with high quality iron.


----------



## astromaddie

kevin gilmore said:


> Something has to be the load for the output tubes. In a T2 it is solid state cascoded current sources. In this amplifier the load is the transformers. Stax hooked up to the high side of the transformers (primary) speakers hooked up to the secondary.


I see. Do you have any other insights from how this looks? Would this be a step up from a CCS-modded T1S? I use a 007A, and I’m intrigued by this but my knowledge is far too limited to gather much by looking at the guts.


----------



## kevin gilmore

completely different devices. Very different sound.


----------



## astromaddie

kevin gilmore said:


> completely different devices. Very different sound.


Just saw your edit in the last post, thanks, that’s really informative all around. Can you elaborate more on the sound differences?


----------



## Aramg

Anyone suspect Stax releasing a better flagship than the SRM-T8000? SRM-T8000 currently on sale rn. foreshadowing for the release of a first party stax amp that's actually not a ****ing scam?


----------



## 118900

Aramg said:


> Anyone suspect Stax releasing a better flagship than the SRM-T8000? SRM-T8000 currently on sale rn. foreshadowing for the release of a first party stax amp that's actually not a ****ing scam?


I saw that the 009s and T8000 are on sale from the US site for open-box (like new) versions only. The actual “new” don’t appear to be discounted.


----------



## buzzlulu

I just purchased a single owner mint SR-404 Limited Edition and am looking for recommendations of a Stax tube amplifier.
I currently own a L300LE/353XBK 80th anniversary - a perfect combination
and
009S/Mjolnir Carbon - another perfect combination.

What is the appropriate matching Stax tube amplifier for the 404LE?


----------



## chocolates

i'd say best for you to try out for yourself given you have the amps on hand.

curious but how much was the SR-404LE? i've been looking around for one but prices vary quite a bit it seems (especially when they're bundled with or without the 353XBK)


----------



## jsts

009BK+SRM600+Chord Hugo 2. I was surprised to find that replacing the AudioQuest Sydney (silver plated) RCA-RCA interconnect  with Kimber Kable Hero copper cable significantly changed the sound signature: high frequencies gained calmness and confidence, bass gained scale and depth. A clear 3D image emerged. I am amazed!

Now I'm waiting for the arrival of my new DAC - Norma DA1 on two R2R 1704 chips. I will share my impressions.


----------



## tumpux

kevin gilmore said:


> Still, its really nicely built with high quality iron.



Those Tango transformers carry their own bragging right. 

Any idea on who built this unit?


----------



## astromaddie

tumpux said:


> Those Tango transformers carry their own bragging right.
> 
> Any idea on who built this unit?


Masataka Onishi. I passed on it (it was an auction) and it ended up going for ~$1800


----------



## eee1111 (Apr 19, 2021)

Not much talk about the VOCE really anywhere.

How does it compare to the 009S?


----------



## BenF

eee1111 said:


> Not much talk about the VOCE really anywhere.
> 
> How does it compare to the 009S?



"_Not much talk about the VOCE really anywhere_" - take the hint


----------



## bearFNF

eee1111 said:


> Not much talk about the VOCE really anywhere.
> 
> How does it compare to the 009S?


@BenF, LOL
@eee1111, there is an impressions thread and a dedicated thread for the Voce.


----------



## eee1111 (Apr 21, 2021)

bearFNF said:


> @BenF, LOL
> @eee1111, there is an impressions thread and a dedicated thread for the Voce.


I have heard the 009s and there are a bunch of people in here consistently

I’m just looking for a comparison with the 009s if there are any people who can help. Sorry if it’s out of line. Lol


----------



## Tarttett

Would anybody within this thread possibly know of the reason for why STAX does not utilise constant current sources within their amplifier units?


----------



## kevin gilmore (Apr 21, 2021)

stax only uses semiconductors made (diffused) in japan.
just about all stax solid state electrostatic amplifiers use low side npn current sources.
The T2 used a cascode pnp/npn high side current source. But this requires a load current of 12ma or more to work right. And parts that no longer exist.
The only suitable high side current source today that is >700 volts and works at 5ma is made by ixys (littelfuse)
There are no pnp transistors in current production >700v. Which was the only way to do 5ma.


----------



## bearFNF

eee1111 said:


> I have heard the 009s and there are a bunch of people in here consistently
> 
> I’m just looking for a comparison with the 009s if there are any people who can help. Sorry if it’s out of line. Lol


My point was that if you search the site you will find threads that have this comparison you are looking for.


Spoiler: links here



i.e. this one: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mr-speakers-voce-electrostatic-headphone-thread.887301/
or these one:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mrs...ning-impressions.804022/page-59#post-14208285
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mrs...ning-impressions.804022/page-48#post-14107766
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mrs...ning-impressions.804022/page-54#post-14130407
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mrs...ning-impressions.804022/page-59#post-14206657
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mrs...ning-impressions.804022/page-59#post-14207451
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mrs...ning-impressions.804022/page-59#post-14207555
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mrs...ning-impressions.804022/page-59#post-14208285


----------



## petitpierre

hello
the verum one beats the venerable sigma + srd7,even if the latter is very pleasant.do you think a srs 3030 can make me climb a level or should i opt for a higher level system?
thanks


----------



## eee1111

bearFNF said:


> My point was that if you search the site you will find threads that have this comparison you are looking for.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: links here
> ...


Thanks for the links I’ll give them a look


----------



## 118900

petitpierre said:


> hello
> the verum one beats the venerable sigma + srd7,even if the latter is very pleasant.do you think a srs 3030 can make me climb a level or should i opt for a higher level system?
> thanks


It really depends what you want to achieve. I had the srs-3030 system and thought it was incredibly “good” but the 007 is far “better”. Hard to tell what you mean by a higher level system, there are many variables that also depend on your taste.


----------



## chocolates

also depends on what you like about the verum one better than the sigma+srd7


----------



## Zoide

xcom said:


> Hello all, I just join the ESTAT's STAX game
> 
> I first got the Nectar Sound The Hive, and now wanted to try STAX, so I got me the L700 MKII and, I am super happy with the L700 so far!


Could you share some comparisons of the L700 versus the Hive? Thanks


----------



## EJSorona

I'm still waiting for my step down transformer. The maker promised that it would be ready this week. 
Oh, and I ordered a Denafrips Ares II and a pair of Oyaide Neo D+ class B (aka "Oyaide green") XLR-XLR cables.
I already got the Oyaide green USB cable to match the XLR cables. 
The importer tried to help, but gave me a 230 to 120v transformer, it won't work reliably (it might, but I'm afraid that it's playing the russian roulette, I won't gamble on the life of my Stax amp). They didn't even advice me that they sent that big useless block. Luckily, they promised to pay for what the step-down transformer costed me.
I really, really hope everything will worth all the effort or else I won't think twice in sell everything (maybe except the Ares II, provide it will also be a great match for with my HD800S and tube amp).


----------



## petitpierre

juansan said:


> It really depends what you want to achieve. I had the srs-3030 system and thought it was incredibly “good” but the 007 is far “better”. Hard to tell what you mean by a higher level system, there are many variables that also depend on your taste.





chocolates said:


> also depends on what you like about the verum one better than the sigma+srd7


in fact i find the verum more neutral,more detailed,more dynamic than the sigma.
the stax system is more delicat which is very relaxing.
i have to do a listening session in may with a person who makes electrostatic system whose system is said to be at least as good as a stax system with sr 007.
you tell me juansan a sr 007 is far better than a srs 3030.so i will wait this listen to decide
thank you for your answers


----------



## petitpierre

it's DIY of course but the complet headphone + amp system costs 1690$


----------



## 118900 (Apr 23, 2021)

petitpierre said:


> in fact i find the verum more neutral,more detailed,more dynamic than the sigma.
> the stax system is more delicat which is very relaxing.
> i have to do a listening session in may with a person who makes electrostatic system whose system is said to be at least as good as a stax system with sr 007.
> you tell me juansan a sr 007 is far better than a srs 3030.so i will wait this listen to decide
> thank you for your answers


Make sure it is amplified correctly though. The 007 (mk2) is quite amplifier dependent and can sound relatively “dull” and “flabby” if it isn’t powered correctly.

Also make a note of the version of the 007 and any modifications it will have had (such as Spritzer/Birgir blu-tac modification or ear pad modifications) as different versions sound quite different.

finally do keep in mind that these are all relative to your own personal tastes. When i had the 3030 system it completely blew me away and nothing I had heard previously could touch it. At the time I considered it end game.

if you do have the opportunity to “try before you buy” your in an excellent position so make the most of it.


----------



## petitpierre

juansan said:


> Make sure it is amplified correctly though. The 007 (mk2) is quite amplifier dependent and can sound relatively “dull” and “flabby” if it isn’t powered correctly.
> 
> Also make a note of the version of the 007 and any modifications it will have had (such as Spritzer/Birgir blu-tac modification or ear pad modifications) as different versions sound quite different.
> 
> ...


thank you juansan
i would not risk buying without listening,especially for such large sums
i wish you a nice weekend


----------



## playmusic

Stax announced today the successor of the 353X:

The SRM-400S. 
Among others, a newly developed transformer reduces energy consumption and is claimed to improve the audio quality.
The 400S costs 121000 ￥ and will be available after 13. May.


----------



## 118900

playmusic said:


> Stax announced today the successor of the 353X:
> 
> The SRM-400S.
> Among others, a newly developed transformer reduces energy consumption and is claimed to improve the audio quality.
> The 400S costs 121000 ￥ and will be available after 13. May.


I wonder why they changed the moniker from 500 (for the T) to 400 for the S instead of keeping the same numbering as per the 700. Not that it matters, but just surprised.


----------



## bigjako

petitpierre said:


> in fact i find the verum more neutral,more detailed,more dynamic than the sigma.
> the stax system is more delicat which is very relaxing.
> i have to do a listening session in may with a person who makes electrostatic system whose system is said to be at least as good as a stax system with sr 007.
> you tell me juansan a sr 007 is far better than a srs 3030.so i will wait this listen to decide
> thank you for your answers


I think the nature of the Sigma is that it takes the Stax signature sound (fast, detailed, neutral) and wraps it in a warm fuzzy blanket, rounding off the sub-bass (compared to Blutak mod) and the shimmery treble.  To your point, it's more relaxing and laid back.  But don't let that color your judgment of the non-Sigma models.  I haven't heard the Verum 1, but compared to an LCD2 or a Sundara (which I think are in the ballpark of a Verum) the Stax is more dynamic, fast, and neutral (ie, it does it across the sound spectrum and is not colored in any particular area more than others).  

I'm just saying don't let the Sigma vs Verum stand in for the Stax vs Verum competition.  And you can get that same experience without an 007, look for a L300 or a 404 or something like that.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

I my experience you can do a lot with pads alone when on a budget. Older and newer Lambdas with ZMF pads for example are insane. Not the intended signature but a joy listening to.


----------



## chocolates

yeah, like most headphones i've noticed some serious differences with different pads. you can get a surprising bass response from the new lambdas for example with the blutack mod and a better seal (i.e. with socas' pad mod and some thicker pads or the L700 pads)

one thing i appreciate about the older lambda style pads is that they don't decay into a gross mush like velour pads do - fortunately, since they're not so easy to replace  but sadly i have a pretty poor seal with glasses on and the bass and treble take a noticeable hit


----------



## NehPets

juansan said:


> I wonder why they changed the moniker from 500 (for the T) to 400 for the S instead of keeping the same numbering as per the 700. Not that it matters, but just surprised.


Probably to differentiate them in a SRM-006tS vs. SRM-353X kind of way.


----------



## 118900

NehPets said:


> Probably to differentiate them in a SRM-006tS vs. SRM-353X kind of way.


Yep. It will probably sit “below” the 500 in the same way I imagine.


----------



## Zufalle

Can anyone comment on the longevity of the Koss ESP950 or 95x compared to a used Stax? I'm looking for a roughly 500$~ electrostatic setup and I see that I can either buy a Koss or use a Japanese proxy auction service and buy used (which I'm fine with). The Koss warranty is worthless to me since I'm not in the US, I'll probably be attempting DIY repairs.

I could probably buy the SRS-3100 in like new condition rather than a decade old set, I know the SRM-252S is supposed to be lacking, but I could probably get it a nice linear regulated 2A supply cheaply locally. Would it still distort badly at high volumes? I'm usually listening at rather loud volumes. Would it even compete with older sets like SRS-4040 or SRS-3030?

Can anyone also comment on what "good" prices are like on Yahoo Auctions and what models + energizers I can expect to grab at that price point? I already know SRS-3030 and 4040 are kinda within reach in "good" condition.

Thanks a lot.


----------



## timb5881

Zufalle said:


> Can anyone comment on the longevity of the Koss ESP950 or 95x compared to a used Stax? I'm looking for a roughly 500$~ electrostatic setup and I see that I can either buy a Koss or use a Japanese proxy auction service and buy used (which I'm fine with). The Koss warranty is worthless to me since I'm not in the US, I'll probably be attempting DIY repairs.
> 
> I could probably buy the SRS-3100 in like new condition rather than a decade old set, I know the SRM-252S is supposed to be lacking, but I could probably get it a nice linear regulated 2A supply cheaply locally. Would it still distort badly at high volumes? I'm usually listening at rather loud volumes. Would it even compete with older sets like SRS-4040 or SRS-3030?
> 
> ...


I have had my ESP950's since about 1992.   I did have the amp serviced about 4 years ago, the caps went out.   Still I have not really had any problems with them.


----------



## Zufalle

timb5881 said:


> I have had my ESP950's since about 1992.   I did have the amp serviced about 4 years ago, the caps went out.   Still I have not really had any problems with them.


Whatever I'll buy will be my daily driver, and I'm a chronic headphone breaker (broke Shure SRH440 and Beyers in months) so I'm a bit worried about the poorer build quality.


----------



## petitpierre

Zufalle said:


> Can anyone comment on the longevity of the Koss ESP950 or 95x compared to a used Stax? I'm looking for a roughly 500$~ electrostatic setup and I see that I can either buy a Koss or use a Japanese proxy auction service and buy used (which I'm fine with). The Koss warranty is worthless to me since I'm not in the US, I'll probably be attempting DIY repairs.


the lifetime warranty is only valid in the US ???


----------



## Zufalle

petitpierre said:


> the lifetime warranty is only valid in the US ???


Outside the US you'll have to ship it back and forth, which for some places will get very expensive very quickly.


----------



## 118900 (Apr 26, 2021)

Zufalle said:


> Whatever I'll buy will be my daily driver, and I'm a chronic headphone breaker (broke Shure SRH440 and Beyers in months) so I'm a bit worried about the poorer build quality.


Remember that electrostatics (like planars) are inherently delicate, regardless of the build quality. Are you sure this is the way to go considering how your other headphones ended?

unless you are very unlucky headphones don’t tend to break within months so how is that happening to your equipment?


----------



## Zufalle

juansan said:


> Remember that electrostatics (like planars) are inherently delicate, regardless of the build quality. Are you sure this is the way to go considering how your other headphones ended?
> 
> unless you are very unlucky headphones don’t tend to break within months so how is that happening to your equipment?


I honestly feel like the headphones mentioned above had deliberate weakspots in their headbands. The drivers dying on the beyers is pure bad luck though as the driver looked pristine on inspection but measured as an open circuit or in the hundreds of kiloohms. I've a rather wide head too that I feel applies more pressure to headbands. As long as neither the Stax nor the Koss have deliberate weakpoints (ie: they break identically for lots of people or get symmetrical breaks on both sides) I feel like they'll be fine with me. I've read about the sensitivty to dust and I'm willing to take extra steps to protect them. I'm mostly concerned about the headband/yokes/etc.


----------



## 118900

Zufalle said:


> I honestly feel like the headphones mentioned above had deliberate weakspots in their headbands. The drivers dying on the beyers is pure bad luck though as the driver looked pristine on inspection but measured as an open circuit or in the hundreds of kiloohms. I've a rather wide head too that I feel applies more pressure to headbands. As long as neither the Stax nor the Koss have deliberate weakpoints (ie: they break identically for lots of people or get symmetrical breaks on both sides) I feel like they'll be fine with me. I've read about the sensitivty to dust and I'm willing to take extra steps to protect them. I'm mostly concerned about the headband/yokes/etc.


Got it, I was worried you were being a little rough on them which is now clear not to be the case.


----------



## chocolates

finally got my SR-Sigma (almost a month later...)

these are so interesting but incredibly ridiculous to put on. forward soundstage and surprisingly thumpy bass around 100hz+. oddly enough it sounds like the technicalities are a bit dulled compared to usual estats? overall doesn't really sound very much like a stax headphone but the acoustics are definitely interesting

my pair is in pretty good condition fortunately and doesn't exhibit any channel imbalance as far as i can tell which is nice


----------



## petitpierre

chocolates said:


> finally got my SR-Sigma (almost a month later...)
> 
> these are so interesting but incredibly ridiculous to put on. forward soundstage and surprisingly thumpy bass around 100hz+. oddly enough it sounds like the technicalities are a bit dulled compared to usual estats? overall doesn't really sound very much like a stax headphone but the acoustics are definitely interesting
> 
> my pair is in pretty good condition fortunately and doesn't exhibit any channel imbalance as far as i can tell which is nice


is it low bias or pro bias? I have a low bias sigma with the srd 7.I have no points of comparison with the other stax because they are my first estats.Last night I listened to Kenny barron in a trio during a concert and certe the high is emulated but there were a lot of impacts in the low.superb on the double bass solos with an immense sound scene. I’d like a little more detail, that would be great...


----------



## Zoide

EJSorona said:


> I read that there are ways to improve the bass on the Lambda earspeakers, at least the current production ones. One of them is by swapping the factory earpads with aftermarket ones (eg: Vesper audio), and the other is by doing the blu-tak or fun-tak mod, which means opening up the earcups and putting a ring made out of that adhesive dough or plasticine to create a seal, thus more resonance.
> What's your take on those mods?
> PS: I can't seem to find Loctite fun-tak where I live, but there are the Patafix by UHU. They appear to be, basically, the same stuff: adhesive platicine that doesn't harden like epoxi-based doughs do, thus can be used several times.


I think it will work just the same. I'm in Europe and I used Pritt Poster Buddies "Haftpunkte - Multi Fix", which worked well:


----------



## EJSorona

Zoide said:


> I think it will work just the same. I'm in Europe and I used Pritt Poster Buddies "Haftpunkte - Multi Fix", which worked well:


There are some Pritt products available here, like their silicone glue, glue bars, but not the poster buddies. I guess I'll have to go for the UHU Patafix, either the white ones, or the new Pro Power, which are coloured black.
The Pro Power ones seem interesting. If a bit of the material leaks from the seams, it won't be easily noticed as it's the same colour as the earcups.
Every glue pad can hold up to 3 kilograms. There's a chance that a local store has them in stock. Since I still can't use my stax combo, I might try to do the mod until that blasted transformer arrives.


----------



## chocolates

petitpierre said:


> is it low bias or pro bias? I have a low bias sigma with the srd 7.I have no points of comparison with the other stax because they are my first estats.Last night I listened to Kenny barron in a trio during a concert and certe the high is emulated but there were a lot of impacts in the low.superb on the double bass solos with an immense sound scene. I’d like a little more detail, that would be great...


yeah they're normal bias - the original SR-sigmas. i'm also powering them out of an SRD-7/SB which is probably underpowering them compared to a proper SRD-7mk2 or KGSSHV with normal bias outputs. curious to see if it improves with better power.

i tried powering it with a relatively low power 4WPC elekit class A tube amp and a beefy 90WPC accuphase class AB solid state amp and greatly preferred the accuphase - fuller midrange and boomier bass. pretty interesting given that for both amps i can't turn up the preamp very high so volume isn't a concern but maybe output current or slew rate is the issue?


----------



## petitpierre

chocolates said:


> yeah they're normal bias - the original SR-sigmas. i'm also powering them out of an SRD-7/SB which is probably underpowering them compared to a proper SRD-7mk2 or KGSSHV with normal bias outputs. curious to see if it improves with better power.
> 
> i tried powering it with a relatively low power 4WPC elekit class A tube amp and a beefy 90WPC accuphase class AB solid state amp and greatly preferred the accuphase - fuller midrange and boomier bass. pretty interesting given that for both amps i can't turn up the preamp very high so volume isn't a concern but maybe output current or slew rate is the issue?


I have the same problem with my amps that have the same power.I think it must come from the output current.
May I ask you the price you paid for this system?


----------



## chocolates

the SR-sigma+srd-7 about $850, so with the schiit bifrost 2 that's about $1450

the accuphase p-4100 ~$4000, the elekit tu-8200r $700


----------



## petitpierre

chocolates said:


> the SR-sigma+srd-7 about $850, so with the schiit bifrost 2 that's about $1450
> 
> the accuphase p-4100 ~$4000, the elekit tu-8200r $700


the person who sold me the sigma + srd7 system really gave me a friend price ....


----------



## vintageaxeman

I'm thinking of upgrading my Stax amp.
Please can anyone confirm....?
Are Stax Lambda headphones with the 5 Pin Pro bias all fully interchangeable with any of the various Stax amps with the same socket?
(The specs of some of the amps suggest that they might have different bias voltages, and I don't want to damage my headphones.)
Thank you.


----------



## streamenterer

Yes, all 5-pin Stax headphones are compatible w/5-pin sockets on the amps.


----------



## Unichu

I'm interested in getting a pair of SR-007 and a Mjolnir srd-7 to drive them. Dac wise I am considering RME ADI-2 or the Bifrost 2. Which one of those would pair better, or are there any other recommendations?


----------



## EJSorona (May 1, 2021)

Unichu said:


> I'm interested in getting a pair of SR-007 and a Mjolnir srd-7 to drive them. Dac wise I am considering RME ADI-2 or the Bifrost 2. Which one of those would pair better, or are there any other recommendations?


Have you ever considered the Denafrips Ares II? It's comparable to the Bifrost 2, or more like it's in-between the BF2 and the Gungnir MB. They are multivoltage and support DSD1024.
I ordered one along with high quality XLR cables, it's probably gonna arrive in a couple of weeks.


----------



## Unichu

EJSorona said:


> Have you even considered the Denafrips Ares II? It's comparable to the Bifrost 2, or more like it's in-between the BF2 and the Gungnir MB. They are multivoltage and support DSD1024.
> I ordered one along with high quality XLR cables, it's probably gonna arrive in a couple of weeks.


I wasn’t aware of it until about ten mins ago when some guys started talking about. Yh, also looking at that and the Prism Callia now as well.


----------



## EJSorona (May 1, 2021)

Unichu said:


> I wasn’t aware of it until about ten mins ago when some guys started talking about. Yh, also looking at that and the Prism Callia now as well.


Sorry, I wanted to say "have you ever". Even sounds a bit rude. I also considered the ADI 2. Heck, I even found an official dealer in my country. It's all good, but it's not really what I'm looking for right now (maybe in the near future). The Callia looks nice, but it's like 2000 yank dollars more than the Ares II. If you are from England, you can also consider what Chord offers.


----------



## Unichu

EJSorona said:


> Sorry, I wanted to say "have you ever". Even sounds a bit rude. I also considered the ADI 2. Heck, I even found an official dealer in my country. It's all good, but it's not really what I'm looking for right not (maybe in the near future). The Callia looks nice, but it's like 2000 yank dollars more than the Ares II. If you are from England, you can also consider what Chord offers.


I managed to find a Callia for an absolute steal at 990 which puts it at a much more similar price to the Ares II. Location wise I am only here temporarily, will be going to the states in September.


----------



## EJSorona

Unichu said:


> I managed to find a Callia for an absolute steal at 990 which puts it at a much more similar price to the Ares II. Location wise I am only here temporarily, will be going to the states in September.


990 pounds or 990 dollars? In any case, that's quite the deal. My Ares II is, definitely, gonna be a huge improvement over my modest Schiit Modi 2, and it was the best I could afford right now.


----------



## macdonjh

Evening all.  I am pretty new to the Stax world after buying a pair of SR-Lambda/SRD-7 (yes, the antiques from the '80s) a few months ago.  Unfortunately, they've somewhat languished in my living room system.  Sure, I had an amp there to drive them, but no chair to sit in.  Recently several things have changed and now they're getting used frequently.  First, my missus bought new furniture for one room and rearranged another.  So now I have a corner in one room suitable for head phone enjoyment.  I was also able to treat myself to another amp for my new head phone corner, a Schiit Aegir.

I listened using the analog output from my DAP -> Aegir -> SRD-7/ SR-Lambda for a week or two.  My only real complaint was bass weight.  I'd had that trouble before in my bedroom system.  Since that gear doesn't get as much use as it should, I pirated my DAC and brought it out front as well.  

So now I am currently enjoying the USB out from my DAP -> Bifrost I multi-bit -> Sys -> SRD-7/ SR-Lambda.  As with my bed room system, the Bifrost provides a solid foundation for the music.  Bass is deep and punchy and solid.  Extreme highs are always lightning fast with my SR-Lambda, but they can also be sweet and delicate, Bifrost allows that to happen.

As somebody recently posted, my Aegir is loafing driving my SR-Lambdas, I keep the volume of the Sys around 9:00 most of the time.  As the other poster mused, I agree having the current delivery capability and the head room are the important things.  

I am thoroughly enjoying this introduction to electrostatic head phones.  I also get to "scratch and itch" I've had since high school when these particular head phones were introduced.  It's all good.


----------



## macdonjh

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate thread: can anyone point me to a tech who can repair Stax?  I also have a pair of SR-40 with a scratchy connection in the right ear piece.  I might attempt to resolder the connection if I knew how to disassemble them, but I don't.


----------



## jsts

jsts said:


> Now I'm waiting for the arrival of my new DAC - Norma DA1 on two R2R 1704 chips. I will share my impressions.



Brief impressions of my new true balanced NOS DAC Norma HS-DA1 on PCM1704 chips in comparison with Chord Hugo 2.

1. Chord Hugo 2 is an excellent DAC, but in the context of use with STAX too sharp and bright. Less bright than the RME ADI 2, but still. To tame it a bit you should use a copper interconnect cable. Silver is contraindicated.

2. Direct comparison of Norma DA1 with Hugo 2 at the first listening revealed no differences. Well, that is, I did not hear them: both DACs sounded exactly the same. Once again, this is with direct listening and cycling the inputs back and forth.

3. *BUT!* Then for 10 days I listened to just Norma DA1 and this is what I got.

It used to be unpleasant to listen to some music on the Hugo 2: in some places I cringed because of the harshness of the frequency range. With the Norma DA1 this problem disappeared completely, listening is not any discomfort at all.
On the Hugo, the bass is tight and detailed. On Norma the bass is a bit relaxed, but it sets the scale.
A wider and deeper scene.
The overall musical presentation of the Norma DA1 is different. It is very difficult to describe. It's as if the sounds are all coupled together, flowing into each other. The style is neat, airy, graceful, intelligent.
Yesterday I switched to the Hugo 2 and... It became clear. The Hugo 2 is a young upstart boy in a pressed suit, who does not tolerate criticism. Norma DA1 is an experienced maestro who knows his worth. On the Hugo 2, everything is correct, everything is smart, but you listen to the sounds. On the Norma DA1 you listen to music.


----------



## Mach3

That black setup WOWzer....


----------



## chocolates

the adhesive on my sr-lambda is coming off, but the pads are still great otherwise. does anyone have any recommendations to re-affix the pads?


----------



## EJSorona (May 5, 2021)

chocolates said:


> the adhesive on my sr-lambda is coming off, but the pads are still great otherwise. does anyone have any recommendations to re-affix the pads?


What about the adhesive plasticine used for the blu-tak resonator mod? Either Loctite fun-tak, UHU Patafix or Pritt Poster Buddies woud do. You will have to peel the earpads off, clean the adhesive material (I guess isopropyl alcohol would do) and make a thin plasticine track so it seals the gap between the earpads and the plastic frame that it's glued against, so you don't have air/sound leakage. An easier alternative is just fill the spot that the original adhesive came off.


----------



## chocolates

that might work! but it looks rather thick and hard to apply (on the other hand, fully removable is always a plus)

i tried looking around for double-sided adhesive tape but they're all on the thick side (1-2mm thick it seems)


----------



## DougD (May 5, 2021)

chocolates said:


> that might work! but it looks rather thick and hard to apply (on the other hand, fully removable is always a plus)
> 
> i tried looking around for double-sided adhesive tape but they're all on the thick side (1-2mm thick it seems)



When I inquired about that while buying some used earspeakers, Birgir of Mjolnir-Audio included some "3M 9448A double coated tissue tape." Comes in sheets that are approximately 4" x 8". Since he sent me some, I haven't needed to find out where to buy it. It's probably 0.2 mm thick when the protective paper is removed, very thin.

Edit/Add: did some googling. Apparently comes in a variety of configurations, all labeled as 9448A. Some thick, some thin, some as tapes, some as circular pads, etc etc. Didn't see one just like Birgir's, which is paper-thin, and well-suited for re-attaching headphone pads.


----------



## bearFNF (May 5, 2021)

Edit- found a better one. Try this: 3m 300lse 4" X8" Heavty Duty Double Sided Sticky Adhesive Sheet Tape High Bond Transfer Tape Ideal for Attaching Digitizers to Phones and Tablets (1 sheets 4"x8")
https://www.amazon.com/300lse-Adhes...248298&s=office-products&sr=1-9&tag=headfi-20

Or you can the referenced tape by googling it....


----------



## bigjako

Emergency Staxen Council inquiry: does this mean I need to buy an entirely new L700 headband assembly? Not original purchaser.


----------



## bigjako

I, um, did some more research and think that a SoCas yoke replacement shall work.  Council crisis averted, I hope.


----------



## gleanfont

bigjako said:


> L700 headband assembly



Looking at it closely, kinda you need to buy a new one. Though, have you tried repairing it first?


----------



## AnakChan

Ouch! Did you sit on it!? I’d guess U’d need to buy a new yoke.


----------



## paradoxper

bigjako said:


> Emergency Staxen Council inquiry: does this mean I need to buy an entirely new L700 headband assembly? Not original purchaser.


That does look repairable if not worth the trouble. Good news is the replaceable assemblies aren't too exorbitant.


----------



## chocolates

DougD said:


> When I inquired about that while buying some used earspeakers, Birgir of Mjolnir-Audio included some "3M 9448A double coated tissue tape." Comes in sheets that are approximately 4" x 8". Since he sent me some, I haven't needed to find out where to buy it. It's probably 0.2 mm thick when the protective paper is removed, very thin.
> 
> Edit/Add: did some googling. Apparently comes in a variety of configurations, all labeled as 9448A. Some thick, some thin, some as tapes, some as circular pads, etc etc. Didn't see one just like Birgir's, which is paper-thin, and well-suited for re-attaching headphone pads.





bearFNF said:


> Edit- found a better one. Try this: 3m 300lse 4" X8" Heavty Duty Double Sided Sticky Adhesive Sheet Tape High Bond Transfer Tape Ideal for Attaching Digitizers to Phones and Tablets (1 sheets 4"x8")
> https://www.amazon.com/300lse-Adhes...248298&s=office-products&sr=1-9&tag=headfi-20
> 
> Or you can the referenced tape by googling it....


perfect, thanks!


----------



## bigjako

AnakChan said:


> Ouch! Did you sit on it!? I’d guess U’d need to buy a new yoke.


No, honestly I just put it on the stand and the cable plug fell to the ground at the same and I guess yanked it just right.  I didn’t even feel it, just saw the cup on my desk. It broke under the screw so I think the 20 euro yoke replacement will work.  I chose orange to remind me of this day.


----------



## catscratch (May 6, 2021)

You can buy replacement yokes from Socas 3D here. You'll need a Torx 6 screwdriver too to undo the screw holding the yoke on. These will increase clamping force slightly but will allow for a wider range of motion in the earcup and will generally result in better sound.

You can also buy a Mk2 headband separately from Stax USA (or maybe Woo Audio? don't remember). The Mk2 headbands do result in slightly worse sound IMO but others may prefer them.

The same thing happened to me, it's not too uncommon.


----------



## martin778 (May 7, 2021)

Hi all, I can't seem to find any replacement earpads for my 404's in Europe and importing from Japan is extremely expensive. Anyone have an idea who stocks these in the EU?
Also, I've read that the 207/307/407 pads are better than the original ones, correct? I've also been looking at the EP-507 pads but these are too expensive (€200+).


----------



## timb5881

I have been listening to my recently acquired Sigma Pro’s and I do notice a more out of head listening experience.  What I am debating is if the frequency loss is worth the out of head experience.   I use an SRD-7 Pro with a Cary Rocket 88 (non R), and have tried rolling a couple of 6922 tubes in it to varying degrees of change in frequency response.  If I use the Tesla ecc88 tubes I do get more high frequency response.  The Ei pcc88 tubes give a nice bottom end but a bit less bass.  Next I am going to try some Telefunken 6DJ8 tubes and listen for changes with them.   Before I was using my Golden Tube SE40 to drive them and it works well.   
I guess my question is, how much speaker effect should I expect with the Signa headphones?


----------



## Tugbars

martin778 said:


> Hi all, I can't seem to find any replacement earpads for my 404's in Europe and importing from Japan is extremely expensive. Anyone have an idea who stocks these in the EU?
> Also, I've read that the 207/307/407 pads are better than the original ones, correct? I've also been looking at the EP-507 pads but these are too expensive (€200+).


https://www.electromod.co.uk/products/stax-spares/staxsrspareparts/SR404407spareparts/
Usually these guys have spare parts for old lambdas & omegas. Turns out, they don't have pads for 404's at this moment. I'd recommend you to contact to Vesper Audio.

https://vesperaudio.com/earpads


----------



## martin778

Thanks, just checked Vesper's site but they don't seem to stock the inner mesh grilles, these come as standard with original earpads. I will give Electromod a shout to see what's possible.


----------



## Tugbars

https://www.fair-kaeuflich.de/produ...-Inserts-for-SR-Lambda-Series-Headphones.html

are those the inner mesh grilles that you are talking about?


----------



## martin778

Oh well, nevermind. I thought "Fair Kaeuflich" was some kind of China dropshipper but it turns out they have a physical store in Germany.
I bought the 507 pads, expensive as a sin but should go a long way if maintained properly since it's leather. Just need to finish glueing the panels back to the casings and the 404's are done.


----------



## Tugbars

By the way, It's not a good idea to buy whatever lambda pads you find, the driver-ear distance is very important in defining the tonality. I hope you'll like it though. 507 pads are quite shallow.


----------



## martin778 (May 8, 2021)

Well, the 507 pads are the same as 404LE so that shouldn't be much of a concern, especially coming from 20yo pleather pads?  I've read folks stating the 404+leather pads makes it sound close to the 404LE


----------



## Tugbars

martin778 said:


> Well, the 507 pads are the same as 404LE so thay shouldn't be much of a concern, especially coming from 20yo pleather pads?  I've read folks stating the 404+leather pads makes it sound close to the 404LE


oh that I didn't know, because 507 drivers are slightly angled I thought they have their own pads.


----------



## Trance_Gott

When someone want to buy my SR-009 inside EU shot me a PM. 
Low price because of the scratches on the cups otherwise soundwise the best out of 3 009s I had. 
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s...ampaign=socialbuttons&utm_content=app_android


----------



## martin778

God please.....the temptation is deadly. 
How is the reliability on these? Can someone service them in Europe?


----------



## elton7033

catscratch said:


> You can buy replacement yokes from Socas 3D here. You'll need a Torx 6 screwdriver too to undo the screw holding the yoke on. These will increase clamping force slightly but will allow for a wider range of motion in the earcup and will generally result in better sound.
> 
> You can also buy a Mk2 headband separately from Stax USA (or maybe Woo Audio? don't remember). The Mk2 headbands do result in slightly worse sound IMO but others may prefer them.
> 
> The same thing happened to me, it's not too uncommon.


Not trying to be bad mouth, but I am quite sure recent STAX build quality especially on the lamdas are dropping although not as worst as the original SR omega.


----------



## petitpierre

I have a proposal for a srs 3030 to 485 dollars do you think it’s a good deal?


----------



## timb5881

petitpierre said:


> I have a proposal for a srs 3030 to 485 dollars do you think it’s a good deal?


If they are in good condition yes it is a decent deal


----------



## martin778 (May 12, 2021)

elton7033 said:


> Not trying to be bad mouth, but I am quite sure recent STAX build quality especially on the lamdas are dropping although not as worst as the original SR omega.


To be fair, would anyone consider a Lambda having a good build quality? To me it's always been a flimsy plastic, creaking shell and glue turning into goo.


----------



## Tugbars

SR507 has fantastic build quality.


----------



## petitpierre

I will not buy srs 3030 because my sigma normal bias and srd7 do much better....


----------



## timb5881

petitpierre said:


> I will not buy srs 3030 because my sigma normal bias and srd7 do much better....


If you have the money to spare, the srs 3030 will give you a different perspective.  Plus if you wanted to upgrade your Sigma to pro then you have a pro driver to do so


----------



## petitpierre

in fact I listened this afternoon to the srs 3030 and I found that it was small, lifeless, musically very flat compared to the sigma srd7 which has a very large sound scene and gives me a lot more life.But this is only my opinion and I do not claim to have the truth....


----------



## martin778

I'm thinking on pulling the trigger on the classic Srm1/Lambda PRO kit, just for that vintage feeling.
Still waiting for the black glue arrive to finish the 404's (flexible type to re-seal the dust covers) and stick the 507 pads on it.


----------



## chocolates

petitpierre said:


> in fact I listened this afternoon to the srs 3030 and I found that it was small, lifeless, musically very flat compared to the sigma srd7 which has a very large sound scene and gives me a lot more life.But this is only my opinion and I do not claim to have the truth....


sigma staging is unreal - far better than any of the lambdas. i found the transients to be noticeably duller but the tradeoff for the soundstage is worth it in my opinion


----------



## petitpierre

chocolates said:


> sigma staging is unreal - far better than any of the lambdas. i found the transients to be noticeably duller but the tradeoff for the soundstage is worth it in my opinion


I agree with you the transients are more blunt than the current production. for me the sigma prefigures the listening I had with the sr 007. I prefer it to the sr 009 which in my opinion is much more severe. will listen again soon to sr007 and 009 with other amps to refine my judgment


----------



## macdonjh

chocolates said:


> sigma staging is unreal - far better than any of the lambdas. i found the transients to be noticeably duller but the tradeoff for the soundstage is worth it in my opinion


Interesting.  I think I'd land on the opposite side of this fence: I would prioritize the transient response over the sound stage.  But then, I don't know that for certain as I've never heard a Sigma, so there's that.


----------



## bigjako

I've been rotating between my ES Labs Sigma, the Lambda NB and the L300LEs and agree with the tradeoffs between them.  I don't think one is better than the other, and all are clearly Staxen, but they each present that sound signature in a different way.  LEs (Blu-Tak) have more slam and are the most transparent, NBs play around much more in the treble region but still have the unmistakably sweet mids while the Sigmas are rolled off a little on both ends and have the duller transients but feel more open and atmospheric.  Sounds will kind of hit the cotton walls in different ways, yet are very placeable.  

Side note: while I wait for my LE replacement yokes, I've been listening to the NBs a lot and find that on my BF2->Emotiva BasX A-100->SRD-7 the bass is surprisingly powerful, while on the Bottlehead Stat you have less of that but the synergy overall is quite nice.  My favourite pairing right now (with a D90).  Best way I can describe it as pure, uncut mid-70's hi-fi.  It extends the NB's sweetness out from the mids, but does reduce the slam (at least compared the Emotiva setup). 

I don't think the Sigmas are all-rounders though.  Either the NBs or the LE's could be.  Also just sprung for the Aeolus because chasing that sound sig with RR1s and Hives was not hitting it for me.


----------



## EJSorona (May 14, 2021)

UPDATE on my situation: Finally! The step down power transformer, which also has an in-built electrostatic screen, which helps filtering noise from the power mains. I couldn't wait 24 hours for the cans to fully charge, I tested it right away and it all working perfectly, no weird noises from neither the cans nor the amp.
To recap, my current setup is as follows: PC (Windows 10, using Foobar2000 for playing sound files); Denafrips Ares II R2R DAC; Stax SRM-353X energizer; Stax SR-L700 Mk 2 earspeakers. For cables I use USB A-B for PC to DAC and XLR-XLR for DAC two AMP, both cables are Oyaide Neo D+ Class B (aka Oyaide greens). Maybe one day I'll get the Class A ones.
Out of the box (or cold), the L700 Mk 2 sound good enough, 5 hours later they sound better, so I can expect that they will reach their peak tomorrow. As for the amp itself, it's warm, but not too much. I had a Schiit Magni 2 Uber which heated up way more, despite being much smaller and having an external power supply. A smell like fresh paint that is drying up in a sunny day is coming up from the vent holes on top, but similarly does the step down converter, while also being slightly warm (it's 50 V.A or 50W*, it's not a powerhouse since the amp only needs 30W at max). 

 Should I stop using them and wait or keep using them to my heart's content and, sooner or later, they will reach their peak. Do they really need to go thru a burning-in program like dynamic headphones (I did it with both of my Sennheisers) need?


*The maker of the transformer said that I don't need it to be able to output 3-4 or more times the needed power. That's only when you are using a cheap-ass transformer. These guys are in the business since the late 60's. So they ought to know their stuff.


----------



## SHAMuuu

petitpierre said:


> I agree with you the transients are more blunt than the current production. for me the sigma prefigures the listening I had with the sr 007. I prefer it to the sr 009 which in my opinion is much more severe. will listen again soon to sr007 and 009 with other amps to refine my judgment


You prefer Σ to 009? Your post confused me a little. Can you clarify the "sigma prefigures the listening I had with the sr007." Can you explain the gap between the two if possible in terms of musicality/ enjoyment... of possible



chocolates said:


> sigma staging is unreal - far better than any of the lambdas. i found the transients to be noticeably duller but the tradeoff for the soundstage is worth it in my opinion


Σ is quite unique for sure in it's delivery. How luxurious for each ear to receive a whole room 




*Anyone have an sr5NB (black/gold) and experience with other stax products? Curious about thoughts/impressions.


----------



## PolloLoco (May 17, 2021)

I had settled on Stax L700 MK 1's as my end-game, and have loved the sound for roughly the last year - but used them sparingly because of comfort and the constant plastic squeal whenever I moved my head at all.  I have kind of a big head, and the Stax L700 have stops that prevent you from rotating the cups vertically or horizontally past a certain amount.

I know Socas makes Freedom Yokes, but they keep the horizontal rotation stopper - and one reviewer said the clamp was still strong.  So I decided to design my own.  I first focused on eliminating the vertical and horizontal stops - that was easy.  But when I had them printed out of nylon - the clamp was pretty severe.  I ended up going through several revisions, then finally settled on a version that separates the pads about 2CM from each other when statically supported from a stand.  At first I thought I'd gone too far and there was too little clamp.  But after about a month of use, I've confirmed that I get a great seal, they're super comfortable - and there's no sound when I bob my head to the music.  The only time I'll get that plastic squeal is when something tugs on the cable.

I created an account on Thingiverse to share - but I don't own a 3D printer and don't know what settings to assign to the project.  I had my STL printed by Jawstec out of Vapor Polished nylon.  If you'd like to try - feel free to PM me and I'll send you the STL file, though it's nearly 3 megs.  I take no responsibility for damaging your headphones - though I think the only possible damage you can do is stripping the original bolts.  I think all the original Stax hardware would work with these yokes, but I really didn't like the bolts they used - so I substituted countersunk bolts.  I also didn't use the o-rings from their assembly - I used small nylon washers instead.  The stax bolts are torqued in really strong against a metal spacer, and use o-rings to prevent the bolts from backing out.  If you're not careful - your screwdriver could slip and cause damage.  I don't see my bolts ever backing out - but they're a cheap replacement if it happens.


----------



## capetownwatches

> EJSorona said:
> 
> 
> > Should I stop using them and wait or keep using them to my heart's content and, sooner or later, they will reach their peak. Do they really need to go thru a burning-in program like dynamic headphones (I did it with both of my Sennheisers) need?


Just keep using them. I have not found that my L500 nor 207 benefited audibly from burn in. My 353X however definitely did, opening up and delivering better lows after a couple hundred hours.


----------



## EJSorona

capetownwatches said:


> Just keep using them. I have not found that my L500 nor 207 benefited audibly from burn in. My 353X however definitely did, opening up and delivering better lows after a couple hundred hours.


Thanks! I didn't think about the amp part of the ecuation. That being said, I should also take my DAC into consideration since I've got it on last monday. Since it's an R2R DAC I leave it on 24/7. I should used them constantly, while also leaving a burn-in program while I'm not at home or at my desk. 
Right now, the warm paint smell is not as intense as yesterday.


----------



## chocolates (May 18, 2021)

macdonjh said:


> Interesting.  I think I'd land on the opposite side of this fence: I would prioritize the transient response over the sound stage.  But then, I don't know that for certain as I've never heard a Sigma, so there's that.


i appreciate both! the tradeoff is worth it in the sense that you get a very different delivery and it's a pretty unique experience among stax cans; would definitely recommend trying one out



bigjako said:


> I've been rotating between my ES Labs Sigma, the Lambda NB and the L300LEs and agree with the tradeoffs between them.  I don't think one is better than the other, and all are clearly Staxen, but they each present that sound signature in a different way.  LEs (Blu-Tak) have more slam and are the most transparent, NBs play around much more in the treble region but still have the unmistakably sweet mids while the Sigmas are rolled off a little on both ends and have the duller transients but feel more open and atmospheric.  Sounds will kind of hit the cotton walls in different ways, yet are very placeable.
> 
> Side note: while I wait for my LE replacement yokes, I've been listening to the NBs a lot and find that on my BF2->Emotiva BasX A-100->SRD-7 the bass is surprisingly powerful, while on the Bottlehead Stat you have less of that but the synergy overall is quite nice.  My favourite pairing right now (with a D90).  Best way I can describe it as pure, uncut mid-70's hi-fi.  It extends the NB's sweetness out from the mids, but does reduce the slam (at least compared the Emotiva setup).
> 
> I don't think the Sigmas are all-rounders though.  Either the NBs or the LE's could be.  Also just sprung for the Aeolus because chasing that sound sig with RR1s and Hives was not hitting it for me.


agreed - i don't think sigmas are all-rounders, but for particularly atmospheric or wide chamber music they blew me away. the dulled transients are quite noticeable though; it makes some instruments (like piano) sound a little less natural compared to the precision of usual estats

i've got the SR-L NB, SR-L Sig (x2), SR-404LE, Sigma NB, and SR-007mk1 - not sure which ones i'll keep yet!


----------



## martin778

I'd keep all and just sell one SR-L Sig


----------



## Mach3

chocolates said:


> i've got the SR-L NB, SR-L Sig (x2), SR-404LE, Sigma NB, and SR-007mk1 - not sure which ones i'll keep yet!


 Yeah sell one of the SR-L and you don't need the SR-404 LE sell it to me that too many ear speaker anyway


----------



## timb5881

chocolates said:


> i appreciate both! the tradeoff is worth it in the sense that you get a very different delivery and it's a pretty unique experience among stax cans; would definitely recommend trying one out
> 
> 
> agreed - i don't think sigmas are all-rounders, but for particularly atmospheric or wide chamber music they blew me away. the dulled transients are quite noticeable though; it makes some instruments (like piano) sound a little less natural compared to the precision of usual estats
> ...


Use one of SR-L Sig and use them to upgrade the Sigma to Pro


----------



## bigjako

Or rent out the 404LE, I'd pay $50 to listen to it for a week.

I'm serious but with the electrostatic : crappy shipping ratio being what it is, I'd probably not risk it.


----------



## martin778

I'd love to hear the 404LE and how much is it true of it being a 404 with leather pads and better cable.


----------



## OYV1983

My Stax L700MKII and SRM-353Xbk arrived yesterday. I was wondering what I should expect when it comes to sound changes when this set is broken in. Can anyone tell me what to expect?

I find it lacks some detail and the soundstage is narrow. 
I used to own the 404 but that wasn't new when I bought it. 

I'm listening to a Rega planar 8 turntable with the aptheta cartridge through the Rega aria phonostage. All of the components are brand new and it all needs breaking in of course, so I don't know what's causing what.


----------



## Tugbars

Stax makes their headphones go through a burn in process before they ship them. (for 24 hours as far as I remember). 

404LE sounds definitely more detailed than L700, I do not know about 404. I wouldn't be surprised if 404 sounds more detailed than L700 too. L700 offers better mid microdetail than most of lambdas though. That's the selling point of L700.


----------



## protoss

I love how STAXs  just release a new product without anyone knowing about it. What 🤔

STAX SRM-500T​


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## catscratch (May 21, 2021)

From memory, I would be extremely surprised if SR-404 resolved better than L700. The issue is that the L700 Mk2... just isn't that great IMO. The lack of stage, the graininess, the kinda hollow mids in comparison to the Mk1... I just don't like it. However I think the differences are mostly due to fit, since when I put the Mk2 headband on the Mk1, it kinda sounded like the Mk2. I'll need to do more comparisons and test the Mk2 earcups on the modded Mk1 headband when I have the time.

I would experiment with using Socas yokes on the Mk2 to change the fit and see how that affects the sound. It's cheap enough to try with little risk.


----------



## Mach3

protoss said:


> SRM-500T


Pretty sure it's a SRM-006t with WIMA caps and a new case/badge


----------



## OYV1983

catscratch said:


> From memory, I would be extremely surprised if SR-404 resolved better than L700. The issue is that the L700 Mk2... just isn't that great IMO. The lack of stage, the graininess, the kinda hollow mids in comparison to the Mk1... I just don't like it. However I think the differences are mostly due to fit, since when I put the Mk2 headband on the Mk1, it kinda sounded like the Mk2. I'll need to do more comparisons and test the Mk2 earcups on the modded Mk1 headband when I have the time.
> 
> I would experiment with using Socas yokes on the Mk2 to change the fit and see how that affects the sound. It's cheap enough to try with little risk.



I'll probably try the yokes. First I'll just let my whole system burn in. Thanks for your reply!


----------



## PolloLoco

catscratch said:


> From memory, I would be extremely surprised if SR-404 resolved better than L700. The issue is that the L700 Mk2... just isn't that great IMO. The lack of stage, the graininess, the kinda hollow mids in comparison to the Mk1... I just don't like it. However I think the differences are mostly due to fit, since when I put the Mk2 headband on the Mk1, it kinda sounded like the Mk2. I'll need to do more comparisons and test the Mk2 earcups on the modded Mk1 headband when I have the time.
> 
> I would experiment with using Socas yokes on the Mk2 to change the fit and see how that affects the sound. It's cheap enough to try with little risk.



Or if you have a big head and/or a 3D printer - you can try the yokes I made.  I posted pictures above.  I'd be happy to share the STL.  I got mine printed out of vapor polished Nylon by a company in the US.

Compared to the Socas yokes - mine add front to back rotation and greatly reduce the clamp force.  The L700's are now my most comfortable headphone, and no squeaks.  I compared them to my Koss last week - and the Stax are now more comfortable.  That said - if you have a small head the reduction in clamp might not be a good thing.


----------



## mrmarbach

I just bought a pair of SR-009. When plugged into my T1 (recent serviced by Stax) one side is silent.

Before sending them back, my dealer has asked me to check the bias voltage of the T1. A local electronics engineer is going to help me do this without killing myself. 

I have no clue about electronics. Is it sufficient just to put a multimeter across the bias output and earth? Or it life more complicated than that?

TIA


----------



## OYV1983

I've been listening to the Stax L700MKII for roughly 15-20 hours now and I'm quite impressed. It's absolutely not as harsh as the 404 I used to own. Great bass and just beautiful sound overall. Damn I love electrostatic headphones


----------



## OYV1983

PolloLoco said:


> Or if you have a big head and/or a 3D printer - you can try the yokes I made.  I posted pictures above.  I'd be happy to share the STL.  I got mine printed out of vapor polished Nylon by a company in the US.
> 
> Compared to the Socas yokes - mine add front to back rotation and greatly reduce the clamp force.  The L700's are now my most comfortable headphone, and no squeaks.  I compared them to my Koss last week - and the Stax are now more comfortable.  That said - if you have a small head the reduction in clamp might not be a good thing.



I find the camping force to be okay as it is. If it were reduced then it would definitely not sit well on my head.


----------



## Bingturong

mrmarbach said:


> I just bought a pair of SR-009. When plugged into my T1 (recent serviced by Stax) one side is silent.
> 
> Before sending them back, my dealer has asked me to check the bias voltage of the T1. A local electronics engineer is going to help me do this without killing myself.
> 
> ...


Not exactly, you'll need to measure the bias voltage before the ballast resistor which, if I'm correct, for the SRM-T1 are the two last resistors on the bias section of the board before the bias wire (coloured grey) goes to the output. So you'll need to open it up and measure it from the bottom of the board.


----------



## Bingturong

Though, it doesn't make much sense that if the bias voltage is messed up as for the pro there is only one wire that goes to both headphones. If the bias from the amp is the problem then both channels shouldn't work at all...


----------



## martin778 (May 23, 2021)

Exactly this^
Do you have any other Stax headphones to try out? Maybe the cable is messed up somewhere or there is an issue on the source side?

I've bought a small lot of Staxes recently, without knowing what they were. I think it's a SRS3030, SRD7SB+Lambda normal bias and SR001 in-ears albeit with snapped plastic. I've already seen the glue on the panels gone in the lambda's, dangit. Pretty much any lambda or it's derivative I've owned in the past years had that issue - panels coming loose from the metal plate in the earcup.

Does anyone know what kind of load does the SRD7SB (or any other passive energiser) present to the power amplifier? I've looked at the manual but don't really understand how the SRD7SB works, there is no AC cable so how does it keep the bias, a supercap? I assume SB means "Standard Bias"?


----------



## Bingturong

martin778 said:


> Exactly this^
> Do you have any other Stax headphones to try out? Maybe the cable is messed up somewhere or there is an issue on the source side?
> 
> I've bought a small lot of Staxes recently, without knowing what they were. I think it's a SRS3030, SRD7SB+Lambda normal bias and SR001 in-ears albeit with snapped plastic. I've already seen the glue on the panels gone in the lambda's, dangit. Pretty much any lambda or it's derivative I've owned in the past years had that issue - panels coming loose from the metal plate in the earcup.
> ...


SB means self-biasing as the adapter uses the signal from whatever speaker amp you're using. The biasing circuit in an SB actually take a signal from the audio path that comes from the transformer and runs it through a voltage multiplier. Compared to a non-sb which takes the bias from the mains and runs that through a voltage multiplier. Downside of the SB is to have a stable bias, it depends on the strength of the music signal. It's not really an issue as the biasing of the headphones themselves is most important at the start and the bias itself takes a negligible amount of current. As for load, it's a bizarrely hard question to answer. Stax has never specified the impedance load but always the wattage. I had no trouble running it out of 4 or 8 or those multiple ohm speaker outputs.


----------



## martin778 (May 24, 2021)

Interesting, but how do we know what the bias voltage is, in the end? Are these "SB" adapters all normal/low bias?


----------



## Bingturong

All SB adapters are normal bias only unless you modify it yourself.


----------



## timb5881

I have a pro and a nb bias SRD-7 but never a SB.  I have read that the self bias versions have a bit of a problem holding the bias on some music, and it has effect on the sound.


----------



## bigjako

timb5881 said:


> I have a pro and a nb bias SRD-7 but never a SB.  I have read that the self bias versions have a bit of a problem holding the bias on some music, and it has effect on the sound.


I have a Pro-modded SRD-7 and a NB-only SRD-7SB and have listened most to the SB. I haven't had any audio issues with either, and have been trying to discern any audio differences between the two, but can't.  Selling the 7SB because the pro-modded SRD-7 works for all my Staxen.  Paired with a relatively inexpensive but great Emotiva BasX A-100 - it's a killer combo, for me.


----------



## bearFNF

I have had my SRD7SB since the 80's and have never had any issues with it out of several high end and several entry level amps. The only reason it is on a shelf now and not being used is that I had my BHSE built with one NB and one pro socket.


----------



## chocolates

if anyone's interested in picking up an SRD7SB i've got one that i no longer use (since i've got my KGSSHV carbon :v)


----------



## mrmarbach

martin778 said:


> Do you have any other Stax headphones to try out? Maybe the cable is messed up somewhere or there is an issue on the source side?



I have a pair of 404LE which play purrfectly with the T1.

The dealer suggested that the 009 might be more sensitive to a bias problem.

My electronics guy cancelled, went on holiday. So now I am trying to find a local dealer who will let me plug the 009s into a known good SRM.


----------



## Bingturong

mrmarbach said:


> I have a pair of 404LE which play purrfectly with the T1.
> 
> The dealer suggested that the 009 might be more sensitive to a bias problem.
> 
> My electronics guy cancelled, went on holiday. So now I am trying to find a local dealer who will let me plug the 009s into a known good SRM.


Yeah, I'm certain its the 009? Is it an early model? They were notorious for having imbalance issues.


----------



## macdonjh

bigjako said:


> I have a Pro-modded SRD-7 and a NB-only SRD-7SB and have listened most to the SB. I haven't had any audio issues with either, and have been trying to discern any audio differences between the two, but can't.  Selling the 7SB because the pro-modded SRD-7 works for all my Staxen.  Paired with a relatively inexpensive but great Emotiva BasX A-100 - it's a killer combo, for me.


I also have an SRD-7 energizer.  I think I have read that some Stax owners have had one output modified to Pro bias level and left the other output at Standard bias.  I am quite interested in that.  Can this be a DIY project, are the schematics available?  I think Mjolnir has offered modded SRD-7 in the past, though I don't see any on his website now.


----------



## timb5881

For anyone interested, there are 3 Stax Sigma headphones for sale on eBay.  Prices are steep, but if you are looking!  2 are normal bias and one is pro.


----------



## petitpierre

timb5881 said:


> For anyone interested, there are 3 Stax Sigma headphones for sale on eBay.  Prices are steep, but if you are looking!  2 are normal bias and one is pro.


obviously two have been sold since last night but there is still a normal bias at an incredible price!
I paid mine ten times cheaper!
has the seller lost his mind?


----------



## petitpierre

petitpierre said:


> obviously two have been sold since last night but there is still a normal bias at an incredible price!
> I paid mine ten times cheaper!
> has the seller lost his mind?


sorry ... going directly through ebay i only got one ad in uk and going through hifishark i had access to a multitude of ads. but they all went crazy! the asking price for the pro bias holds delirium!!!!


----------



## mrmarbach

Bingturong said:


> Yeah, I'm certain its the 009? Is it an early model? They were notorious for having imbalance issues.


No it's a late one, but it's been shipped internationally, and I think they're sensitive to that no?

I too think it's the 009, but I'm trying to do due diligence...


----------



## French Penguin

Hi, I'm new to the forum, I usually just sit back and read what others say without my input but I read I need to implement some of my own thoughts to unlock full privilege's but since I came here to learn more about Stax, thought this would be the perfect thread to get my comments in.

I've started reading and researching about these headphones for about four months now but haven't been able to pull the trigger on any of the deals I've seen yet, almost did until the stock market got struck... I originally was going to buy new but learned how much of a better deal used will be.

I haven't read too much of the older generations besides the 407 and 507 are really good. What would you guys suggest? I've been looking at L300 Limited, L700, and I haven't seen many 407s or 507s out for sale?

I also read how huge of an impact the energizer has on the quantity and quality but are also are better with some pair than others. From on paper, I prefer the 717 / 727 energizer the most but also read a lot how people love the T1 but believe if I remember correctly it has less detail?

What are your recommendation pairs for Stax, I tried to go to Audio46 in New York but they didn't have any for sampling in person and I do not know anyone who has a pair I can try.

I guess TLDR, never did one.
I'm New
Asking for Recommended Stax (Preferably Used)
Asking for Recommended Energizer (Preferably Used)
Where can I listen to Stax on the East Coast USA?

Please correct anything I've said or done wrong so I can learn for future post and knowledge
Thank You


----------



## Tugbars

507 is extremely shouty and harsh sounding headphone with small soundstage and headstage. 407 is similar, less shouty but technically less impressive too.
L700 is interesting, good midrange texture, good detail and soundstage... I like it, Is it worth though? In that price range there's ES-1A that I use and I like it way way way more than the L700 I used to have.
L300 limited? I don't know. 

Amps: to my ears 717 sounds better than 727. 727 sounds really dull and boring.


----------



## French Penguin

Tugbars said:


> 507 is extremely shouty and harsh sounding headphone with small soundstage and headstage. 407 is similar, less shouty but technically less impressive too.
> L700 is interesting, good midrange texture, good detail and soundstage... I like it, Is it worth though? In that price range there's ES-1A that I use and I like it way way way more than the L700 I used to have.
> L300 limited? I don't know.
> 
> Amps: to my ears 717 sounds better than 727. 727 sounds really dull and boring.


Thank you for your help and opinion about nearly everything I mentioned, I'll look into the ES-1A you've mentioned. With the help of some price tracking websites and auction locations, I'll keep my eyes out.


----------



## timb5881

petitpierre said:


> obviously two have been sold since last night but there is still a normal bias at an incredible price!
> I paid mine ten times cheaper!
> has the seller lost his mind?


I just rechecked and I still see 3 Sigma’s listed one from Great Britain.  And yes the prices are at to high.   I would think a Pro in great shape with new pads should run $1500 or less and a normal bias same condition should run $1000 or less


----------



## chocolates

i am really impressed with the bass on the SR-404LE, Sigma NB, and SR-007mk1 - wonder why it's notably better on these models? especially the sigma, since it shares a driver with the original SR-L


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## Tugbars (May 25, 2021)

One of the factors in bass performance is how the stators apply push pull forces to diaphragm. Less perforated area -> stronger push pull, largely perforated area -> weak push pull. For example, 009's stators look quite advanced in order to apply different forces of push pull in different areas of the diaphragm to control resonances.  As you noticed, 007 has a large outer ring at the edge of its stators with no perforated area. That area applies good amount of push pull to help the diaphragm to deliver maximum bass detail & texture. As far as I know, overdamped drivers offer better texture but sound less "dynamic". Underdamped drivers offer better macrodetail(009), they sound more dynamic but they tend to get out of control in high frequencies and bass may sound a bit weird. Regarding the diaphragm, If the diaphragm is too thin, the air surrounding it would acoustically damp it too much and as a result the bass tonality may get off, decay can be too fast etc. Imaging *might* get better with a thinner diaphragm though. 007 uses a thin diaphragm to offer best imaging in its class and in order to minimize the compromises on bass texture and impact of that might occur due to using such thin diaphragm, stators provide relatively extreme amount of push-pull force and drivers are heavily acoustically damped. 007 is a bass & imaging headphone. 009 trades off control in higher frequencies and authoritative bass to better detail and faster decay.

I'm not different than you though, I am a hobbyist too. I just like to make my own hobbyist research, I may be wrong. So keep searching for answers!


----------



## martin778 (May 26, 2021)

I think it's because of the seal , 404LE has leather pads, 007 too. Not sure about the Sigma but it has a big, dampened chamber so that might help a lot to build up bass.
Also, I tried the ur-Lambda, the first version with normal bias and dampened earcups and I listened in utter disbelief.
I've listened to Erica de Casier's - Sensational album and after the first few seconds I was like - no, cannot be, this is way too good.
Absolutely incredible tonal balance considering it's age, okay the highs are a bit hot and brash but I've only tried it with an SRM-313 and Tempotec Sonata HD USB dongle playing Qobuz through Roon but still, nothing high-end.
Most incredible was the bass, yes the bass weight - it was good, as it should be. More than in my 404's, even after reglueing the panels. The Lambda NB seems to create more soundstage depth rather than width but that's probably because of the dampening and of course the midrange is a bit cloudy when compared to newer models but still - WOW.


I 've also got an SR-303 to go with the 313 but really I don't know what the problem is with Stax, all glue is completely gone, panels laying loose in the earcups. Also the cable of the 303 is much smaller than on 404's and a nightmare to work with, it's coiling and tangling all the time. I will try to iron it through a thick piece of cloth and low temperature to see if it helps.

The Lambda NB doesn't have the glue issue at all but I had to cut the units off anyways as someone made a nasty dent in one of the protective grilles. Also noticed the panel had a small dark spot on the outside so I need to keep an eye on this if it's not arcing further.

I'm starting to think I'd rather have the Lambda NR than 404's  or maybe try 404's with dampening...
Also played a bit with the 001's but they are at the edge of being a total writeoff, the amp works but the cable is gone (broken in 2 places) and the frame of the 001's is gone, glued and snapped off again, very weak design.


----------



## SHAMuuu

chocolates said:


> i am really impressed with the bass on the SR-404LE, Sigma NB, and SR-007mk1 - wonder why it's notably better on these models? especially the sigma, since it shares a driver with the original SR-L



After trying the round, rectangle, and boxy, I was surprised that the boxy sigma provided me for the first time a music listening experience where i thought of nothing but the music. 

I feel relaxed, my ear not being squished. It's light. You would never think so. Truly like speaker listening, though maybe not the ultimate best speakers.

NB technically not the best, but just a peaceful experience.

When I have a Fostex driver , I'm always thinking about the bass not being powerful enough, or the treble being bothersome. And spending years trying to extract subbass of dt48/480 and how I can improve them. EQ;ing constantly between tracks, pad swapping , foams, etc. Pure madness.

I wish Stax will do a remake of these to honor the genius creator. XD It looks weird as hell too, I just like looking at them...


----------



## streamenterer

Tugbars said:


> 507 is extremely shouty and harsh sounding headphone with small soundstage and headstage. 407 is similar, less shouty but technically less impressive too.
> L700 is interesting, good midrange texture, good detail and soundstage... I like it, Is it worth though? In that price range there's ES-1A that I use and I like it way way way more than the L700 I used to have.
> L300 limited? I don't know.
> 
> Amps: to my ears 717 sounds better than 727. 727 sounds really dull and boring.


I wouldn't call the 407s shouty. To me the sound is well distributed across the frequency range--a nice coherence. Of course 65-y-o ears might contribute to the lack of overbearing treble. The 300s with aftermarket pads and blu-tack mod, tho not lacking in bass don't integrate it well w/the rest of the spectrum. It's the Lambda Nova Sig that does everything right for me, tho maybe a mid-hall that front row perspective of the other two.


----------



## bigjako

SHAMuuu said:


> I wish Stax will do a remake of these to honor the genius creator. XD It looks weird as hell too, I just like looking at them...


Stax hasn't but I got mine from ES Labs, who can use any pre-404 driver and put them into a Sigma housing for you.  I agree with your take - they're not the most transparent or incisive but they are a pleasant listening experience, at least mine are.  They're still unmistakably Staxen, but also very different from any other model (in my experience).


----------



## SHAMuuu

bigjako said:


> Stax hasn't but I got mine from ES Labs, who can use any pre-404 driver and put them into a Sigma housing for you.  I agree with your take - they're not the most transparent or incisive but they are a pleasant listening experience, at least mine are.  They're still unmistakably Staxen, but also very different from any other model (in my experience).



If I am not hallucinating, there is an option for L700 drivers too. 

That is incredible.

I remember reading posts about ppl with the sigmas contemplating such a mod.

Thanks for the tip, i know where to go if mine dies.


----------



## martin778

Anyone have broken Sigmas for sale? I have a 303 to butcher


----------



## zomkung

Just got SR-007 MK1 driving with SRD-7, 100w Speaker Amp.

Now I wonder about 009. Anyone here can share experiences?


----------



## Tugbars (May 27, 2021)

The detail exists in the 007 but It's diffuse and difficult to pick out. Assuming both are driven well, 009(S) isn't more resolving than 007 by a huge margin(maybe 10% more if I have to give a number) but It's easier to pick out details with 009. 009 has this "too separated too fast" kind of presentation, 007 sounds cohesive. 007's mids are thick and quite textured, the usual 1300hz shout of  Stax headphones is more annoying on 007 than 009 because of that. The decay on 009 is most of the time too fast, such fast decay gives the listener the sensation of "wow this headphone is incredibly detailed"  however that kind of decay is one of the big reasons of  why 009 doesn't sound natural. 009S(not 009) has good sub bass, it can rumble well, however in the bass department 007 totally wipes the floors with 009 and 009S. Better detail, better impact, better sub bass rumble... you name it. 009S sounds -especially with Carbon- extremely transparent, with good recorded music It doesn't feel like you are listening to headphones, it feels rather like sounds are appearing and floating magically around you. Sound images can get 3D on both headphones if the source is calling for it and if your dac is good enough for that. 009 makes the transducer disappear in its presentation if the music is well recorded. 007 does present like, sound like a headphone. Both have ridiculously good imaging. It's hard to imagine sound reproduction gets more resolving than on the 009S and Carbon(throw a Denafrips Terminator into the mix too) however you have to really like headphones with incredibly fast decay and have a certain type of taste which helps you to ignore harsh treble. 009 requires EQ more than 007 if you are into such stuff.


----------



## zomkung

Tugbars said:


> The detail exists in the 007 but It's diffuse and difficult to pick out. Assuming both are driven well, 009(S) isn't more resolving than 007 by a huge margin(maybe 10% more if I have to give a number) but It's easier to pick out details with 009. 009 has this "too separated too fast" kind of presentation, 007 sounds cohesive. 007's mids are thick and quite textured, the usual 1300hz shout of  Stax headphones is more annoying on 007 than 009 because of that. The decay on 009 is most of the time too fast, such fast decay gives the listener the sensation of "wow this headphone is incredibly detailed"  however that kind of decay is one of the big reasons of  why 009 doesn't sound natural. 009S(not 009) has good sub bass, it can rumble well, however in the bass department 007 totally wipes the floors with 009 and 009S. Better detail, better impact, better sub bass rumble... you name it. 009S sounds -especially with Carbon- extremely transparent, with good recorded music It doesn't feel like you are listening to headphones, it feels rather like sounds are appearing and floating magically around you. Sound images can get 3D on both headphones if the source is calling for it and if your dac is good enough for that. 009 makes the transducer disappear in its presentation if the music is well recorded. 007 does present like, sound like a headphone. Both have ridiculously good imaging. It's hard to imagine sound reproduction gets more resolving than on the 009S and Carbon(throw a Denafrips Terminator into the mix too) however you have to really like headphones with incredibly fast decay and have a certain type of taste which helps you to ignore harsh treble. 009 requires EQ more than 007 if you are into such stuff.



In your opinion, Do you prefer to EQ the MK1 to the Harman target (I use Oratory1990) or just leave it be?


----------



## Tugbars (May 28, 2021)

I usually EQ it to the Harman target and make changes accordingly to my preferences.(I like flat bass, there's too much presence at 2800hz-5000hz range in Harman target for me, I like flat high-treble etc) Harman target curve is basically a preference curve, bend it to your will.


----------



## streamenterer

Tugbars said:


> The detail exists in the 007 but It's diffuse and difficult to pick out. Assuming both are driven well, 009(S) isn't more resolving than 007 by a huge margin(maybe 10% more if I have to give a number) but It's easier to pick out details with 009. 009 has this "too separated too fast" kind of presentation, 007 sounds cohesive. 007's mids are thick and quite textured, the usual 1300hz shout of  Stax headphones is more annoying on 007 than 009 because of that. The decay on 009 is most of the time too fast, such fast decay gives the listener the sensation of "wow this headphone is incredibly detailed"  however that kind of decay is one of the big reasons of  why 009 doesn't sound natural. 009S(not 009) has good sub bass, it can rumble well, however in the bass department 007 totally wipes the floors with 009 and 009S. Better detail, better impact, better sub bass rumble... you name it. 009S sounds -especially with Carbon- extremely transparent, with good recorded music It doesn't feel like you are listening to headphones, it feels rather like sounds are appearing and floating magically around you. Sound images can get 3D on both headphones if the source is calling for it and if your dac is good enough for that. 009 makes the transducer disappear in its presentation if the music is well recorded. 007 does present like, sound like a headphone. Both have ridiculously good imaging. It's hard to imagine sound reproduction gets more resolving than on the 009S and Carbon(throw a Denafrips Terminator into the mix too) however you have to really like headphones with incredibly fast decay and have a certain type of taste which helps you to ignore harsh treble. 009 requires EQ more than 007 if you are into such stuff.


How does the ES Labs A1 fit in here?


----------



## Tugbars (May 28, 2021)

ES1A and 009S are very similar to each other, both are incredibly resolving & transparent, both sound very open and have that "too fast too separated" kind of presentation. however ES1A offers better bass detail and better bass presentation(better impact, sustain, decay etc) and 009/S have better imaging.  ES1A has great separation and can place instruments/singers with incredible precision however sound images tend to get more 3D with the way of how the soundstage is formed on 009/S. Both have the same resonance area which is at around 1300hz~ and both have weird resonances around 4000-5000hz range.

Maybe, just maybe 009S sounds a bit more detailed but I can't really have a clear idea of whether it's due to different peaks in their frequency responses or rather one transducer is  better  resolving than the other.


----------



## bigjako

martin778 said:


> Anyone have broken Sigmas for sale? I have a 303 to butcher


You can buy the shells from ES Labs and do it yourself.


----------



## bigjako

Tugbars said:


> The detail exists in the 007 but It's diffuse and difficult to pick out. Assuming both are driven well, 009(S) isn't more resolving than 007 by a huge margin(maybe 10% more if I have to give a number) but It's easier to pick out details with 009. 009 has this "too separated too fast" kind of presentation, 007 sounds cohesive. 007's mids are thick and quite textured, the usual 1300hz shout of  Stax headphones is more annoying on 007 than 009 because of that. The decay on 009 is most of the time too fast, such fast decay gives the listener the sensation of "wow this headphone is incredibly detailed"  however that kind of decay is one of the big reasons of  why 009 doesn't sound natural. 009S(not 009) has good sub bass, it can rumble well, however in the bass department 007 totally wipes the floors with 009 and 009S. Better detail, better impact, better sub bass rumble... you name it. 009S sounds -especially with Carbon- extremely transparent, with good recorded music It doesn't feel like you are listening to headphones, it feels rather like sounds are appearing and floating magically around you. Sound images can get 3D on both headphones if the source is calling for it and if your dac is good enough for that. 009 makes the transducer disappear in its presentation if the music is well recorded. 007 does present like, sound like a headphone. Both have ridiculously good imaging. It's hard to imagine sound reproduction gets more resolving than on the 009S and Carbon(throw a Denafrips Terminator into the mix too) however you have to really like headphones with incredibly fast decay and have a certain type of taste which helps you to ignore harsh treble. 009 requires EQ more than 007 if you are into such stuff.


Can you comment on how either the 007 or 009 compares to any TOTL planars? Are they playing in planar land? My understanding (from reading, not listening) is that the Lambdas have the classic airy, fast Stax sound, but the 007 (and maybe the 009) bring that sound closer to planar-like?


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## Tugbars (May 29, 2021)

Comparing 007 to totl planars is a very lazy attempt to define 007's sound in my opinion. 007 sounds like an electrostatic headphone but Stax did  design compromises in different areas with 007 than they did with 009 or lambda series.


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## paradoxper

Tugbars said:


> Comparing 007 to totl planars is a very lazy attempt to define 007's sound in my opinion. 007 sounds like an electrostatic headphone but Stax did different compromises in design with 007 than they did with 009 or lambda series.


You can compare them but you shouldn't equivocate.


----------



## Bingturong

Now I'm thinking if someone can make a design for 3D printed Sigma shells...


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## timb5881

Bingturong said:


> Now I'm thinking if someone can make a design for 3D printed Sigma shells...


There was a a guy in Hong Kong who does.


----------



## Bingturong

Well, more of the files themselves to print it myself


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## French Penguin

Hi guys, I'm back because I'm unsure now. I truly want to buy Stax but I've been having a hard time pulling the trigger. I have been watching all of these sales and auctions go on for a few months now but I cannot decide what headphone/earspeaker to buy with which amplifier or fully justify my actions. There was a L300 LTD for under $700 USD if that is a deal since it was practically unused which ended this morning. I need help and advice of what I should do for my first Stax system for under $1100 USD with of course used parts. Should I continue trying auctions, post WTB, or what do you recommend? I'm still not sure if I should've let those L300 LTD go.

Thank You for your help, Had advice before but it was outside of my price range since I didn't mention one.


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## zomkung (May 30, 2021)

French Penguin said:


> Hi guys, I'm back because I'm unsure now. I truly want to buy Stax but I've been having a hard time pulling the trigger. I have been watching all of these sales and auctions go on for a few months now but I cannot decide what headphone/earspeaker to buy with which amplifier or fully justify my actions. There was a L300 LTD for under $700 USD if that is a deal since it was practically unused which ended this morning. I need help and advice of what I should do for my first Stax system for under $1100 USD with of course used parts. Should I continue trying auctions, post WTB, or what do you recommend? I'm still not sure if I should've let those L300 LTD go.
> 
> Thank You for your help, Had advice before but it was outside of my price range since I didn't mention one.



I'd prefer sr007 2nd hand around 1000-1200 USD and Stax SRD-7(Pro) for about 200 USD.


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## French Penguin

zomkung said:


> I'd prefer sr007 2nd hand around 1000-1200 USD and Stax SRD-7(Pro) for about 200 USD.


Thank you for your suggestion, I'll be on the lookout for the SR007 for hopefully one within that price range but may I ask what makes the SRD-7 special enough it can be ran with the SR007, is it because it relies on an amplifier to power it, has a lot of mods to increase performance or is it really just a great deal for the price? I'm sorry, still trying to learn everything.


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## zomkung (May 30, 2021)

French Penguin said:


> Thank you for your suggestion, I'll be on the lookout for the SR007 for hopefully one within that price range but may I ask what makes the SRD-7 special enough it can be ran with the SR007, is it because it relies on an amplifier to power it, has a lot of mods to increase performance or is it really just a great deal for the price? I'm sorry, still trying to learn everything.



It's more than enough. I'm paring it with 100W Class D Speaker Amp.
https://i.imgur.com/YjFsT6K.jpg

I got the SR007 for about 110,000 Yen and SRD-7 (Pro Mod) for about 25,000 Yen

For the Japan auction, You may check the market price here.
https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/closedsearch/closedsearch/stax sr-007/0/

https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/closedsearch/closedsearch/stax srd 7/0/

EDIT: Worth checking out

 
(Minute 22 Mark, but prefer to watch whole video)

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/kpo05j/eq_is_magic/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/autoeq-magic.14327/


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## timb5881

That is the big advantage of the SRD-7 Pro, is that just about any power amp will work with it.  I use either a Golden Tube SE40 or a Cary Rocket 88 to power my headphones.  Both are tube amps and to an extent I can roll tubes to the sound I like.


----------



## macdonjh

timb5881 said:


> That is the big advantage of the SRD-7 Pro, is that just about any power amp will work with it.  I use either a Golden Tube SE40 or a Cary Rocket 88 to power my headphones.  Both are tube amps and to an extent I can roll tubes to the sound I like.


+1 The exact reason I am drawn to energizers over dedicated amps for electrostatic head phones myself.


----------



## French Penguin

zomkung said:


> It's more than enough. I'm paring it with 100W Class D Speaker Amp.
> https://i.imgur.com/YjFsT6K.jpg
> 
> I got the SR007 for about 110,000 Yen and SRD-7 (Pro Mod) for about 25,000 Yen
> ...



Thank you all for explaining how diverse and adjustable the SRD-7 is with it costing much less. I will for sure check the links, you sent and watch the whole video. @zomkung  I do have a question that'll help me a lot, by the sounds of it, you did purchase your equipment from Japan Auctions but I have no clue how much the shipping will cost which is why I've been hesitant, I would greatly appreciate it if you don't mind telling me the rough estimate it was, thank you. I didn't know a used pair of SR007 was within that price range and they look soooo comfortable with those earpads. I actually have been ignoring them due to the price tag but I will look much more into them since from what I did glance over, they're amazing. I do have a 6W, 50W, and 300W from the 90s but it's extremely warm but dirty sounding, I thought it sounded warmer than my friends schiit Valhalla but it is physically impossible currently to have no volume even at 0.

Thank you all again for your comments and that does make it much easier to afford amplifiers and an energizer for stax giving more diversity and unique experiences. 

Please correct me if I am wrong about anything since unknowledgeable.


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## Tugbars

It's close to impossible to find SRD7 mkII pro for 200$ nowadays and on top of that you need a 500$+ amplifier to power your headphones through a SRD7 box. Do not underestimate SR207's or old SR404/407's with SRM252S amp. Good budget combo. 404LE + SRM252S should sound fine too. SRM323(or later models) is also a great amp, any combo including that amp and a decent lambda is worth to consider buying.


----------



## zomkung

Tugbars said:


> It's close to impossible to find SRD7 mkII pro for 200$ nowadays and on top of that you need a 500$+ amplifier to power your headphones through a SRD7 box. Do not underestimate SR207's or old SR404/407's with SRM252S amp. Good budget combo. 404LE + SRM252S should sound fine too. SRM323(or later models) is also a great amp, any combo including that amp and a decent lambda is worth to consider buying.



I won this auction with 28,500 YEN (Including SR-5 MOD)
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/l681676453

Also for the Speaker amplifier, I'm pairing it with a 30$ 100 W Chinese Class D Speaker Amp and have enough power more than it needs. 

For the shipping cost, you may check the price here https://buyee.jp/help/yahoo/guide/shipping-fees , Mine was around 10,000 YEN with an Airmail(5 KG).


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## Tugbars (May 31, 2021)

Driving SR007 off a 30$ class D amp doesn't sound like the best idea to me honestly but if you like what you hear, that's great. Not only the amp but the transformer used inside the energizer makes difference in sound quality too.


----------



## Progenitor

I have bought a used SR-009 but alas it came from a smoker. I have replaced the earpads already, but the headpad still smells a bit despite using leather cleaner.

I am wondering if anyone knows how I can get a replacement head pad? I have a friend in Japan if there are any Japanese source for spare parts?

Thank you!


----------



## Lord Rexter

Here you go only the 009 headband or strap - https://staxaudio.com/headpad/stax-sr-009-headpad

Full headband assembly for 009 -

https://staxaudio.com/headband/stax-sr-009-headband-assembly


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## timb5881

Tugbars said:


> It's close to impossible to find SRD7 mkII pro for 200$ nowadays and on top of that you need a 500$+ amplifier to power your headphones through a SRD7 box. Do not underestimate SR207's or old SR404/407's with SRM252S amp. Good budget combo. 404LE + SRM252S should sound fine too. SRM323(or later models) is also a great amp, any combo including that amp and a decent lambda is worth to consider buying.


I paid $300 for my SRD-7 Pro a while back.   I see them on eBay maybe twice a year and often for a lot more money.   I can here differences with different amps, so the transformer has advantages in that manner plus buying speaker amps is usually less expensive than buying electrostatic headphone amps.   I have a set of SR404 headphones and I enjoy them very much.   You may want to also consider a new pair of Nectar Pollinators or Hives,  they are inexpensive and give you an outstanding introduction to electrostatic headphones.   If you like an IEM earphone set up consider the SR003 or the portable SR002 with battery powered amp.   I have a pair of the SR002 and amp and they sound great.


----------



## Menkau-ra (May 31, 2021)

Power adapter for SRM-252S:

https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_203036_-1

It has 1.5A compare to the stock 0.5A power adapter. Will it be any better is sound?
I already bought it but not sure if I can hear the difference on my L300. I've only had it for a few weeks.


----------



## Progenitor

Lord Rexter said:


> Here you go only the 009 headband or strap - https://staxaudio.com/headpad/stax-sr-009-headpad
> 
> Full headband assembly for 009 -
> 
> https://staxaudio.com/headband/stax-sr-009-headband-assembly


Thank you so much - really appreciate this!


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> Power adapter for SRM-252S:
> 
> https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_203036_-1
> 
> ...


Higher amperage won't have any effect - SRM252S won't draw more than it has to.
Only a linear power supply can improve SQ, and even then it will be difficult to tell the difference - at least you'll be able to relax and think that you have done all you could 

I'm using a linear power supply I purchased on Aliexpress - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000004386010.html .
You can either ask the seller to reverse the polarity, or buy a cable that reverses polarity.


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> Higher amperage won't have any effect - SRM252S won't draw more than it has to.
> Only a linear power supply can improve SQ, and even then it will be difficult to tell the difference - at least you'll be able to relax and think that you have done all you could
> 
> I'm using a linear power supply I purchased on Aliexpress - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000004386010.html .
> You can either ask the seller to reverse the polarity, or buy a cable that reverses polarity.


Can you hear the difference?


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> Can you hear the difference?


I want to believe that I do, but I wouldn't risk a blind test


----------



## Menkau-ra (May 31, 2021)

BenF said:


> I want to believe that I do, but I wouldn't risk a blind test i


I am getting L300 LTD soon. Do you think upgrading 252S to something like 313 will make a good difference?


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> I am getting L300 LTD soon. Do you think upgrading 252S to something like 313 will make a good difference?


Doubt it, 252S is a surprisingly good amp, when fed with high quality signal.
Not a fan of L300 LTD - L300 is much more transparent and airy-sounding.


----------



## buzzlulu

BenF said:


> Not a fan of L300 LTD - L300 is much more transparent and airy-sounding.


Different strokes for different folks. 
The L300LE is both amazing sounding…and an amazing value


----------



## petitpierre

Menkau-ra said:


> I am getting L300 LTD soon. Do you think upgrading 252S to something like 313 will make a good difference?


i listened to the 313 recently and it was really poor ... i don't think it is a good idea to change your 252S for it


----------



## protoss

Did STAX release another product without anyone knowing. 🤔 

It seems like the 353X is being Discontinued with a brand new;
STAX SRM-400S​


----------



## protoss

STAXs needs better PR. They will forever stay niche if they stay secret like this.


----------



## capetownwatches

My 6 month old SRM-353X, bought brand new (well OK, two hours use) at 40% of retail price, is going nowhere!
Classic in the making right there...


----------



## Lord Rexter

protoss said:


> Did STAX release another product without anyone knowing. 🤔
> 
> It seems like the 353X is being Discontinued with a brand new;
> STAX SRM-400S​


Yes there's another silent release the STAX SRM-500T a successor to 006t - https://staxaudio.com/driver/stax-srm-500t


----------



## protoss (Jun 2, 2021)

If STAX release their new Omega ear-speaker secretly like these two new amplifers. They truly are out of touch. 😳

They need better press. Not some hidden articles or magazines spread across the interwebs.


----------



## tumpux

Don’t worry. They’re doing good as it is. 
They know that they’re playing in a niche market.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

Protoss, they should hire you.


----------



## Lord Rexter

Yeah totally agree, if Protoss is on the inside we'll could get a lot of insider information (on their uber top secret projects) and plan out our purchases better✌️of course get to hear about when will the new Omega would hit the market 🤣


----------



## mariopoli

BenF said:


> Doubt it, 252S is a surprisingly good amp, when fed with high quality signal.
> Not a fan of L300 LTD - L300 is much more transparent and airy-sounding.


I agree with you.


----------



## Menkau-ra

L300 LTD sounds on SRM-252S very good. Testing now.


----------



## EJSorona (Jun 5, 2021)

I managed to get the adhesive plasticine (I got UHU Patafix not the Loctite Fun-Tak) to do the blu-tak MOD on my L700 Mk II. In all honesty, I have mixed feelings 'bout this hack. I tried both the full and the partial seal. The former makes the L700 very prone to "stax farts n' squeaks" whereas the latter not so much. On the plus side, it does make the bass more boomy, specially with Oratory1990's EQ settings for Equalizer APO, but it does make the vocals a bit plasticky, and quite plasticky without EQ, almost as if the singer has his/her face inside a plastic bucket. I always end up annoyed and rolling back the mod (which is easier than applying the stuff).
Most of the time I'm fine with a bit of EQ or no EQ.
Maybe it's because my DAC is an Ares II, which is R2R. It's quite a moody and sensitive DAC. Sometimes it sounds great, sometimes it's irritating and harsh. I definitely need a line conditioner, because the DAC does pick up noise rather easy (I can hear it on its PSU).
The 220 to 100V step down power transformer I use for my Stax amp might also have something to do. I actually got two of those, the one I mentioned before which has double coil, ES screen and 50W of power, while the other has a single coil and 120 watts of power. The former makes a low pitch noise, while the latter makes a high pitch noise. In both cases it's transmitted to the amp. I read somewhere that putting ferrite chokes on the power cable (from amp to transformer) can reduce line noise. Dunno how true is that. It's not like I hear buzzing or humming from the earspeakers, but a high volumes and no EQ, it sounds harsh. For some tracks I really like the raw sound that I get from no-EQ while I also appreciate the more tame and refined sound from the EQ preset. 
Despite all its quirks, it's on par, if not better at times, than my Sennheiser HD800S with my tube amp.


----------



## staticdynamo

STAX is making new omega? I don't think so. SRM-400S and SRM-500T are just replacement model.
Anyway, by the corona virus, there are no real portable audio show for a year or more. There is too 
little information. And Press?  STAX will not reveal the new products before they completes. 
I just wait for the chance to get information from them directly.


----------



## Tugbars

Stax is working on a new Omega which is going to be something like Omega I: big drivers, mesh stators etc. Edifier CEO who owns the Stax company said that in an interview 2-3 years ago.


----------



## French Penguin

Hey..... I'm back again asking for purchasing advice...

I've read that most people recommend KGSSHV, Carbons, and BHSE. I'm confident of my circuit building skills and electronics but I can't find a solid source for how much the components would cost so I'm kind of ruling those amplifiers out for now unless they're cheaper than I think.

So I was going to buy L300 but was talked out of it for a used L700 but an auction for an SR-007A came up and I made the "mistake" of buying it since it was only so little more than what I was going to spend for the L700 for better build quality and thicker sound/bass. But as you can already guess... I need an amplifier for it and I've read multiple places that either the SRM-717 or KGSSHV were the bare minimum to run them depending who you ask. I did see an SRD-7 with a pro bias output but it sold for a decent bit and I would prefer left right channel balance capabilities, I mean windows has it built in but I do not trust it as much especially with it already changing volume throughout the day by +-10%.

I've read that Spritzer actually likes the 323 but do not know if it's the A or S variant and not sure about his opinion for it for an SR-007A. I see a 323A available for $320 like new condition but saw they can sell for $200-$300.  I saw the SRM-717 has sold recently between $430-$590. I also see from previous sales the SRM-727 selling between $520-$720. I imagine the SRM-717 would be a decent upgrade from the SRM-323A for the SR-007A but would a SRM-727 be worth the cost to later do the global feedback mod? I just don't know if I want to spend the extra few hundred for a small improvement over the SRM-717 which if I truly do fall in love with these headphones, I'll be able to DIY a KGSSHV or Carbon easier.

I guess TLDR?; "Accidentally" purchased an SR-007A and need an energizer. DIY KGSSHV/Carbon/BSHE too expensive? Don't know correct pricing. SRM-323A or SRM-717 or SRM-727, is a 727 worth a few hundred more than 717 or is even somehow an 323A barely enough? Do want Left Right Balance controls and have a balanced DAC.

Thank you again for all the help and suggestions, even with reading for days, I definitely will not know what's best without experience and years of knowledge.


----------



## arnaud

There you go, and seems (from the description, i’ve never heard it) you could switch to 009 eventually and still have a full bodied sound: https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...ic-tube-headphone-amp-located-in-canada.6178/


----------



## arnaud

Except there’s no xlr inputs nor separate volume control, should have read better . For the latter, that will force you to stick with stax amps, I wouldn’t  not recommend a 727 amp at least, been there already and there’s room for improvements. If anything, a used 717 would be a better choice for 007A, possibly even a lower end 353x etc.


----------



## French Penguin

arnaud said:


> Except there’s no xlr inputs nor separate volume control, should have read better . For the latter, that will force you to stick with stax amps, I wouldn’t  not recommend a 727 amp at least, been there already and there’s room for improvements. If anything, a used 717 would be a better choice for 007A, possibly even a lower end 353x etc.


Thank you for your advice and suggestions! I was leaning towards the 717 over the 727 from what I've been reading and now also your advice from experience.


----------



## Tugbars (Jun 17, 2021)

French Penguin said:


> Hey..... I'm back again asking for purchasing advice...
> 
> I've read that most people recommend KGSSHV, Carbons, and BHSE. I'm confident of my circuit building skills and electronics but I can't find a solid source for how much the components would cost so I'm kind of ruling those amplifiers out for now unless they're cheaper than I think.
> 
> ...


007 needs a lot of power and a good speaker amp + srd7mkII pro can provide all the power you need in most cost efficient way. If you want to check how much a KGSSHV would cost in total, check mouser.com, almost all the components can be bought from there. Since you know soldering, and have electronics skills you can build your own Lundahl energizer too and get closer to the "end game": http://www.audiodesignguide.com/my/stax_transf.html. If you have questions feel free to ask.

717 can be enough for SR007A if you do not listen your music very loud. However because of 007's laid back presentation, I often find myself listening to them in very loud listening levels.


----------



## French Penguin

Tugbars said:


> 007 needs a lot of power and a good speaker amp + srd7mkII pro can provide all the power you need in most cost efficient way. If you want to check how much a KGSSHV would cost in total, check mouser.com, almost all the components can be bought from there. Since you know soldering, and have electronics skills you can build your own Lundahl energizer too and get closer to the "end game": http://www.audiodesignguide.com/my/stax_transf.html. If you have questions feel free to ask.
> 
> 717 can be enough for SR007A if you do not listen your music very loud. However because of 007's laid back presentation, I often find myself listening to them in very loud listening levels.


Thanks for the heads up with the possible issues with the 717+007 combination! I have been trying to find an up to date BOM of the KGSSHV and Carbon but cannot find a solid source since I found multiple with different components, would Spritzer starter kit be the best place to start or do you recommend something else? I am going to continue reading into these two energizers but for now, I'll continue watching the 717 so I can at least see what I got myself into. 
I haven't heard of the Lundahl energizer till now (guess I haven't read enough) but the schematics look extremely simple? Another thing to read and look into for the future.
Thank You


----------



## zomkung

Anyone here has experience with SRM-300?

I have sr007 but not sure if the power is enough.


----------



## staticdynamo

STAX is STAX even now, not Edifier.  I know the stubborn men of STAX. 
I believe in the information only from STAX. Not Edifier.


----------



## chocolates

French Penguin said:


> Thanks for the heads up with the possible issues with the 717+007 combination! I have been trying to find an up to date BOM of the KGSSHV and Carbon but cannot find a solid source since I found multiple with different components, would Spritzer starter kit be the best place to start or do you recommend something else? I am going to continue reading into these two energizers but for now, I'll continue watching the 717 so I can at least see what I got myself into.
> I haven't heard of the Lundahl energizer till now (guess I haven't read enough) but the schematics look extremely simple? Another thing to read and look into for the future.
> Thank You


over on head-case the parts and schematics are in various hidden thread posts. the folks there are super helpful, just asking should get you what you're looking for

sadly i don't have the links on hand right now, but they're all hosted in a google drive currently (still accessible last i checked a couple months ago)

good luck!


----------



## French Penguin

chocolates said:


> over on head-case the parts and schematics are in various hidden thread posts. the folks there are super helpful, just asking should get you what you're looking for
> 
> sadly i don't have the links on hand right now, but they're all hosted in a google drive currently (still accessible last i checked a couple months ago)
> 
> good luck!


Thanks for the direction! I've noticed there is still I do not know about those energizer and I should take much more time to read and understand everything about them from the different versions to now the types I haven't even heard of like the Lundahl energizer and find out which one is best for me. For now, I am hoping to get a 717 to help me get a taste of what the 007A can do as its basics. Also do not worry about not having the links, I think it'll be best for myself to find extra which one I want and understand why I want that one over the others excluding the BHSE due to its price tag...
Thanks again! I've never used forums or asked for help out of idk fear? But definitely think it's the current best actions. I also type a lot...


----------



## Tugbars

French Penguin said:


> Thanks for the direction! I've noticed there is still I do not know about those energizer and I should take much more time to read and understand everything about them from the different versions to now the types I haven't even heard of like the Lundahl energizer and find out which one is best for me. For now, I am hoping to get a 717 to help me get a taste of what the 007A can do as its basics. Also do not worry about not having the links, I think it'll be best for myself to find extra which one I want and understand why I want that one over the others excluding the BHSE due to its price tag...
> Thanks again! I've never used forums or asked for help out of idk fear? But definitely think it's the current best actions. I also type a lot...


check Kevin Gilmore's posts on head-case, diy-audio forums and here to learn more about electrostatic amps, energizers, if you dig enough you can even find the formula to calculate slew rate of electrostatic amps!


----------



## arnaud

I used to have some of these links in my sig, some go back a few years back but should still be valid. These are just older posts that helped me see the forest through the trees, they’re mostly stuff from ex active posters, some of them that have been tagged as « members of the stax mafia ». There was an era where several companies tried to get into estat market, sometimes producing items with controversial design choices or plainly unsafe. These members helped raise awereness on potential issues and also inject a bit of reality into things, which sometimes caused a lot stir as some viewed them as a block to creativity, leading to the same wire + gain type design « without soul ».

I bookmarked some of the technical exchanges, in particular plain facts about amp specs etc at a time when I was myself considering options. I realized I still had them bookmarked so sharing for the friendly @French Penguin (i.e. I started digging for you what @Tugbars was referring to).

You may need to scroll down the pages a bit and may be even more surprised by the posters, some are rather famous :
- 717 vs 727: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-new.223263/post-9654796
- Transformer box vs. full blown amps and the risks: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wee-new-product-from-woo-audio.504471/post-6886820
- stat amps: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-new.223263/page-1241
-´some stat amps specs: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-new.223263/page-1240
-´some stat amps voltage swing ratings: http://www.head-fi.org/t/582518/electrostatic-amplifiers-voltage-ratings


----------



## French Penguin

arnaud said:


> I used to have some of these links in my sig, some go back a few years back but should still be valid. These are just older posts that helped me see the forest through the trees, they’re mostly stuff from ex active posters, some of them that have been tagged as « members of the stax mafia ». There was an era where several companies tried to get into estat market, sometimes producing items with controversial design choices or plainly unsafe. These members helped raise awereness on potential issues and also inject a bit of reality into things, which sometimes caused a lot stir as some viewed them as a block to creativity, leading to the same wire + gain type design « without soul ».
> 
> I bookmarked some of the technical exchanges, in particular plain facts about amp specs etc at a time when I was myself considering options. I realized I still had them bookmarked so sharing for the friendly @French Penguin (i.e. I started digging for you what @Tugbars was referring to).
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks for the.... ah can't remember the word anymore after the phone call but for everything you mentioned and listed from the history, dangers, and links for everything. There is so much to learn that I do not know yet including the history of companies are very talented individuals pointing out protentional issues, sounds like a roller-coaster of events and maybe I'll learn why some members called the stax mafia.

Thank you for all the important links, forums, and history you posted, I need to start marking all of these topics down so I don't forget!


----------



## AudioCats

French Penguin said:


> .....
> 
> I've read that most people recommend KGSSHV, Carbons, and BHSE. I'm confident of my circuit building skills and electronics but I can't find a solid source for how much the components would cost so I'm kind of ruling those amplifiers out for now unless they're cheaper than I think.
> 
> ...



The semi-conductors used in a KGSS-carbon is about $150 from mouser, all are current production models. Then add PCB and support parts, which can range from fairly inexpensive to extremely costly, depending on the direction you want to push it.

not sure about the KGSSHV and BHSE, too many out of production/ hard to find parts.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Is SRM-400S enough for omega 007 or 009?


----------



## tumpux

It's very subjective. 
I would say as long as you never listen to better amplifiers, it would be enough.


----------



## Menkau-ra

tumpux said:


> It's very subjective.
> I would say as long as you never listen to better amplifiers, it would be enough.


Stax Inc sells 009 with D10. That's why I asked that question.


----------



## tumpux

Just because .... doesn't mean that ...
Again, it's very subjective. 

Most of the answers that you receive here will tell you more about that person than wether the 400S is enough or not to drive the Omegas.


----------



## arnaud

Menkau-ra said:


> Stax Inc sells 009 with D10. That's why I asked that question.



Technically, you can plug the 009 into any stax energizer, including the srm252.

Now, is that a wise choice? I’m sure someone somewhere will have arguments to justify it


----------



## tumpux (Jun 20, 2021)

My personal stand is: if you already consider the Omegas, why deprive yourself on the amplification.

And that tells more about me than the fact wether the 400S is enough to drive the Omega or not.


----------



## Menkau-ra

What would be a starter amp to drive omegas?


----------



## zomkung

Just got vanilla SRM-727 non-mod.

Anyone here knows how to mod it?


----------



## tumpux

If I am starting again in 2021, I would start with Carbon. 


.
.
.



Then I will upgrade to the latest Dr. Gilmore’s creation in 2031.


----------



## French Penguin

AudioCats said:


> The semi-conductors used in a KGSS-carbon is about $150 from mouser, all are current production models. Then add PCB and support parts, which can range from fairly inexpensive to extremely costly, depending on the direction you want to push it.
> 
> not sure about the KGSSHV and BHSE, too many out of production/ hard to find parts.


Thanks for the information! I'll be on the lookout for more parts lists and reading about the different models, If I truly do fall in love with the SR-007A with the 717 I won yesterday (still has to ship), I will most likely build one of the KGs if possible under $1000 in the future.

I did see someone mention Taobao so I took a look and did see a KGSSHV-Mini for I believe $650 USD (idk if that's a deal), but that was after the auction and can't remember if I can buy directly from them or need a third party, I believe third party.

Thanks for the advice!


----------



## kzs70

zomkung said:


> Just got vanilla SRM-727 non-mod.
> 
> Anyone here knows how to mod it?


I have done it according to this description and it works:

https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/8703-the-srm727-thread/


----------



## French Penguin

Oh, I just realized I probably should've asked in my previous message.... Since the 717 is an older amplifier, do you guys recommend anything to check, replace, maintenance, or even mod to correct or improve performance? I will come back and post my findings of the Legendary sr-007A compared to my current, I know it will be limited by the 717 but I have low doubts it won't outperform my current headphones but only if that's ok on here, I don't really recall seeing people posting their individual opinions.... I should probably check before cluttering this thread from important information.

I'm sorry for all the messages, I'm just kind of forgetful and can't remember/think of things... but the one thing I can promise is, if there is something wrong with it, I'll definitely be asking help, sorry, but you guys have many years of experience.

Thanks everyone for your help with everything!


----------



## AudioCats (Jun 21, 2021)

French Penguin said:


> .....
> 
> I did see someone mention Taobao so I took a look and did see a KGSSHV-Mini for I believe $650 USD (idk if that's a deal)
> ,......



a "mini" chassis offers no room for larger upgrade parts, not ideal. (assuming you will work on it later).

I think the 717 will work well enough. Stax builds good quality stuff, kind of expensive but lasts forever. My srm-1 (non-MK2, probably made in the 70's) still works and sounds fine. The electrolytic capacitors might need to be replaced due to age, though.


----------



## AudioCats (Jun 21, 2021)

zomkung said:


> Just got vanilla SRM-727 non-mod.
> 
> Anyone here knows how to mod it?


if you can, add a switch to toggle between global/non-global feedback.

I went the other direction in my KGSS, added the non-global option to it and end up preferring the non-global (the feedback type used in 727).

Global feedback usually sound more impressive for the first 5~10 minutes, much cleaner sound and better control. But after a while I feel the sound has kind of a "sheen" feel to it. The way to say it, I guess, is that it is more "silky". While the smoothness is great, the "silky sheen" is not. Kind of irritates me a little after a while.
I usually switch back to non-global feedback after a couple of songs and just leave it there. More distortions? yes, but the emotion in singers' voice comes through better.

I mostly listen to vocal stuff so the more solid bass offered by global feedback is not big enough of a plus, in my situation, to offset the "sheen" irritation.


----------



## zomkung

AudioCats said:


> if you can, add a switch to toggle between global/non-global feedback.
> 
> I went the other direction in my KGSS, added the non-global option to it and end up preferring the non-global (the feedback type used in 727).
> 
> ...



Sorry to ask,
What headphones are you using with the amp? and do you usually EQ your phone?
I am quite curious about the amp and its power. The transformer srd-7 could provide unlimited power to the can at a cheaper price. I've read somewhere and they said, while srd-7 is very good in terms of sound dynamics, but will lack the details comparing with the stats amp. I'm not sure about that if it affects the people who usually EQ the phone.

Thanks,


----------



## AudioCats (Jun 22, 2021)

with the KGSS I mostly use the sr007 (the original, no mk #), occasionally sgl-jr.

I don't use EQ.

My rating of the phones I have:  sr303 =< srx-iii < esp950 << HeAudio Jade < hifiman sgl-jr < sr007.

Transformer boxes can do ok on a pinch but is missing too much details. I'd say the srd-7 can drive the 303 ok enough. Any phones better should get an electrostatic amp.

You will likely not be able to find a transformer box that provides the level of details to rival a 717/kgss. I have a box with two large Lundahl output transformers inside. And it is still not detailed enough.  Of course there is still the amorphous core (AM) version Lundahl to upgrade to, so all hope is not lost yet, but I doubt the AM will do that much better (I just did a quick check, the AM version transformers are $800/pair.)


----------



## DecentLevi

Does anyone happen to have an L700 compatible metal headband for a second-hand price? The plastic band broke for my L300 Limited Edition and only source I saw so far is $220 from direct source. Thanks


----------



## zomkung (Jun 22, 2021)

AudioCats said:


> with the KGSS I mostly use the sr007 (the original, no mk #), occasionally sgl-jr.
> 
> I don't use EQ.
> 
> ...



Sorry for bothering you.

I have a KOSS ESP 95X. I wanted to let it go since I didn't use it and thinking to buy any cheap 5-pin lambda as the second pair after O2-MK1. Since you rate the esp950 better than other staxs. I'm considering keeping ESP 95X and will buy the cable converter instead.


----------



## French Penguin

AudioCats said:


> a "mini" chassis offers no room for larger upgrade parts, not ideal. (assuming you will work on it later).
> 
> I think the 717 will work well enough. Stax builds good quality stuff, kind of expensive but lasts forever. My srm-1 (non-MK2, probably made in the 70's) still works and sounds fine. The electrolytic capacitors might need to be replaced due to age, though.


Thanks, I'll keep that in mind, I haven't read enough to know about all the possibilities/variants the KG amplifiers can become, I just remember seeing two people believing it was enough but I do think they purchased them prebuilt instead of DIY since they were talking about larger price differences, do not quote me on that because I don't want to accidentally offend them.

Thank you, Take Care!


----------



## AudioCats

zomkung said:


> ...
> I have a KOSS ESP 95X. I wanted to let it go since I didn't use it and thinking to buy any cheap 5-pin lambda as the second pair after O2-MK1. Since you rate the esp950 better than other staxs.


I much prefer my 950 over my 303. 
The adaptor cable on ebay seems to be super expensive though. If you still have the koss extension cable (in the 95x package), you can just add a 5-pin plug and diy an adapter. The plug is available from Allied, part# 86-71-6s.


----------



## AudioCats (Jun 22, 2021)

French Penguin said:


> Thanks, I'll keep that in mind, I haven't read enough to know about all the possibilities/variants the KG amplifiers can become, ...


sorry, I was under the impression that you will do at least some upgrade to the amp, in such case a mini-chassis is not as good as a large enclosure. 

If your 717 has blue ALPS pot as volume control ( like what is in my 007t's), one "must do" mod would be to configure it to "shunt pot volume control" and add premium series resistors. It can bring noticeable SQ improvement. (Alps blue is kind of "dull" sounding)
 flavor (relatively speaking) of difference resistors 
If it is difficult to decide which series resistor to use.... get vishay z-foil, it is a sure bet. Very expensive parts but you only need 4 (or just 2, if you only use RCA inputs).


----------



## French Penguin

AudioCats said:


> sorry, I was under the impression that you will do at least some upgrade to the amp, in such case a mini-chassis is not as good as a large enclosure.
> 
> If your 717 has blue ALPS pot as volume control ( like what is in my 007t's), one "must do" mod would be to configure it to "shunt pot volume control" and add premium series resistors. It can bring noticeable SQ improvement. (Alps blue is kind of "dull" sounding)
> flavor (relatively speaking) of difference resistors
> If it is difficult to decide which series resistor to use.... get vishay z-foil, it is a sure bet. Very expensive parts but you only need 4 (or just 2, if you only use RCA inputs).


No need to apologize at all, you were only helping and I thank you for the advice!

I will definitely take a look inside of the 717 to see when it arrives and perform the modification in the future if it does have the blue ALPS pots and thank you for the link with replacements which even includes descriptions of each one. I'll read up on them and determine which one I would prefer to compliment the sound quality of the 007A if applicable.

Thank you and again, no need to apologize for doing nothing wrong.


----------



## zomkung

AudioCats said:


> I much prefer my 950 over my 303.
> The adaptor cable on ebay seems to be super expensive though. If you still have the koss extension cable (in the 95x package), you can just add a 5-pin plug and diy an adapter. The plug is available from Allied, part# 86-71-6s.



Thank you,

How much improvement between the koss stock amp and the amp you have?

From what I've read, the koss has 600V bias voltage, and stax's pro-amps have 580 bias voltage.

I don't have the KGSS, and not sure about the bias voltage difference.


----------



## AudioCats

zomkung said:


> How much improvement between the koss stock amp and the amp you have?


The stock E90 sounds clean, but is rather sterile with very little emotion. Probably ok for instrumental stuff but unacceptable for vocals . The E90 can be improved upon but the combination I like can be tricky to implement, I actually don't want to recommend modding it (especially when you already have a 727). The E90 mod thread can be found in the DIY section.
I think you will love the 95x driven by the 727.
(if the 727 has blue Alps inside..... do the shunt volume control mod mentioned in the post above.)



zomkung said:


> From what I've read, the koss has 600V bias voltage, and stax's pro-amps have 580 bias voltage.
> 
> I don't have the KGSS, and not sure about the bias voltage difference.


E90 bias is taken directly off the + high voltage line, which is loosely regulated, it can vary from 560 to 620v.
Bias line inside the KGSS is done in the typical stax fashion, using voltage multipliers, it is not super precise either.

Bias voltage (for the phone diaphragm) is not that super critical, there is no need to hit exactly 580v or 620v.  I have a SRD-7 with select-able bias settings, my Lundahl box has 4 bias settings as well. I think 450-500-580-620v in the srd-7 and 500-580-600-620v in the Lundahl. I did it just to experiment. Changing from 580v to 620v doesn't make that huge of a difference. If anything, I sometime prefer using a slightly lower bias voltage, say 500v, it softens the sound a little, making it more fun for long sessions.


----------



## Menkau-ra

DecentLevi said:


> Does anyone happen to have an L700 compatible metal headband for a second-hand price? The plastic band broke for my L300 Limited Edition and only source I saw so far is $220 from direct source. Thanks


I can buy them from you


----------



## Menkau-ra (Jun 23, 2021)

I have brand new L700Mk2 with SRM-400S. For the source I use Schiit Gungnir A1 which is warm sound signature. I burned them in from about 100hrs. Why do I still have harsh trebles? I even purchased Schiit Loki+ but it's not helping. Used L300 LTD sounded PERFECT on the same setup.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hi guys, I've gotten a few inquiries for a "sale" of my L300 Limited Edition. Nope they're definitely not for sale, I'm lucky to have 'em, and just looking for a headband replacement.


----------



## Menkau-ra

DecentLevi said:


> Hi guys, I've gotten a few inquiries for a "sale" of my L300 Limited Edition. Nope they're definitely not for sale, I'm lucky to have 'em, and just looking for a headband replacement.


I've sold mine L300 LTD thinking that L700 would be better. But I was wrong, at least to my taste. How can I fix L700? Would L500 pads help?


----------



## catscratch

You can always try EQ. Use a test tone generator or sine sweep to hear where the peaks are and lower them. Though in my experience, treble harshness with new Lambdas is very fit dependent, and a simple headband replacement affects the sound quite a lot. I've tried Mk1, Mk2, and Mk1 with custom yokes and they all sound different. In any case, EQ is the most immediate solution and there are plenty of free software options.


----------



## Menkau-ra (Jun 24, 2021)

catscratch said:


> You can always try EQ. Use a test tone generator or sine sweep to hear where the peaks are and lower them. Though in my experience, treble harshness with new Lambdas is very fit dependent, and a simple headband replacement affects the sound quite a lot. I've tried Mk1, Mk2, and Mk1 with custom yokes and they all sound different. In any case, EQ is the most immediate solution and there are plenty of free software options.


I have L300 headband I can try. Will L500 pads help to make it sound like the LTD? And no, EQ not helping, I am using Schiit Loki Mini+ hardware EQ.


----------



## Menkau-ra

catscratch said:


> You can always try EQ. Use a test tone generator or sine sweep to hear where the peaks are and lower them. Though in my experience, treble harshness with new Lambdas is very fit dependent, and a simple headband replacement affects the sound quite a lot. I've tried Mk1, Mk2, and Mk1 with custom yokes and they all sound different. In any case, EQ is the most immediate solution and there are plenty of free software options.


Just changed the headband from L300 - did not help. Trebles are still harsh.


----------



## catscratch

Loki is a 4-band EQ and that's not precise enough. You need a parametric EQ where you can do more accurate adjustments. If you're on PC you can install Equalizer APO and try that, not the best EQ but it's free. It will probably take you a bit of time to learn to use it however.

Honestly, if the 300 Limited worked well for you, why not look for another set?


----------



## Menkau-ra

catscratch said:


> Loki is a 4-band EQ and that's not precise enough. You need a parametric EQ where you can do more accurate adjustments. If you're on PC you can install Equalizer APO and try that, not the best EQ but it's free. It will probably take you a bit of time to learn to use it however.
> 
> Honestly, if the 300 Limited worked well for you, why not look for another set?


I am looking for another L300 LTD. Don't know what to do with L700Mk2 now. Stax stakes 15% restocking fee.


----------



## AudioCats

disclaimer: I have zero experience with the newer L series phones.

But.... according to Stax web site, L700 has a detachable, wide-format ribbon which "6NCu high purity 99.99999% copper wires are employed for the core wires, *and six silver plated *high purity 99.9999% copper wires are arranged for the perimeter. "
From my experiences with interconnects (which mostly transmits voltage, very little current, much like what the cable do in electrostatic phones), silver plated copper (SPC) is known to have a bright sound signature. 
now... L500 also have a detachable, wide-format ribbon, but this ribbon is just the high purity copper, no silver plating. If L500/700 connectors are the same, I'd recommend trying a L500 cable and see if that solves the harshness complain. 

L300 wide ribbon, non-detachable: (OFC=oxygen free copper)
"OFC cable has been employed for the core wires. The entire cable are then arranged in a flat, WIDE format configuration to lower the capacitance between each wires and finished with the most suitable structure to drive the earspeaker."

L500 detachable wide ribbon:
"High performance pure copper HiFC™ developed by Hitachi employs the core wires. HiFC has various advantages, including similar sonic characteristics as used in SR-009 and SR-L500 6N high purity 99.99999% copper wires."

L700 detachable wide ribbon:
"6NCu high purity 99.99999% copper wires are employed for the core wires, and six silver plated high purity 99.9999% copper wires are arranged for the perimeter."


----------



## DecentLevi

Menkau-ra said:


> I've sold mine L300 LTD thinking that L700 would be better. But I was wrong, at least to my taste. How can I fix L700? Would L500 pads help?


While I haven't tried the L700 for longer than I can recall, I would suggest having a read through this little thread where several of us found ways to dramatically change the sound of the Lambdas by earpad rolling including with spacers, vents and adapters - you can use this is a general guide to how things may change in the direction you're going for.

While we're on the topic of Lambda mods, I recall one of the most senior members of this community once recommended a good place to start for improving the sound of Stax electrostats is by changing the cable. Believe me I balked at the notion because it's not even detachable! Not to mention the electrical properties are dramatically different for power delivery to an e-stat vs. traditional dynamic headphones so I'm not sure if cables would make a difference for Stax, or if it the sound would alter in a similar way or not... let alone how. Any thoughts out of curiosity?


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> now... L500 also have a detachable, wide-format ribbon, but this ribbon is just the high purity copper, no silver plating. If L500/700 connectors are the same, I'd recommend trying a L500 cable and see if that solves the harshness complain.


I just emailed Staxaudio. I hope they will answer on that question about the cable.


----------



## Menkau-ra

DecentLevi said:


> While I haven't tried the L700 for longer than I can recall, I would suggest having a read through this little thread where several of us found ways to dramatically change the sound of the Lambdas by earpad rolling including with spacers, vents and adapters - you can use this is a general guide to how things may change in the direction you're going for.


Yes, I've read the whole thread before and I remember that post from you  I just don't understand how $1650 headphones with $1150 SRM-400S amp running from $1300 Gungnir can sound like THIS?


----------



## AudioCats (Jun 24, 2021)

DecentLevi said:


> ....because it's not even detachable! Not to mention the electrical properties are dramatically different for power delivery to an e-stat vs. traditional dynamic headphones so I'm not sure if cables would make a difference for Stax, or if it the sound would alter in a similar way or not... let alone how. Any thoughts out of curiosity?


You can recable the non-detachable type, just open the ear cup and desolder the old and solder in the new cable.

electrostatic cables are not the same type used in a dynamic phone. The main thing to watch out for is the insulation voltage rating (though any teflon insulation should be enough), and the capacitance between wires.  But honestly, the L500 type cable might be the highest performance practical cable to use, it is low capacitance (wide spacing between wires) and very flexible.

I have silver/teflon cable for my ESP950 and HeAudio Jade, it does sound better than Stax wide but I seldom use the silver/teflon...... It is a bit too stiff, not as convenient as the soft stax ribbon.


----------



## AudioCats

Menkau-ra said:


> ..... I just don't understand how $1650 headphones with $1150 SRM-400S amp running from $1300 Gungnir can sound like THIS?


the price range doesn't necessary mean much. some people don't like 009 ( claim it is too "in your face").


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> the price range doesn't necessary mean much. some people don't like 009 ( claim it is too "in your face").


You can still listen to your music even if the sound is too "in your face", but I can't listen harsh trebles, it's killing my ears


----------



## AudioCats

that could be the SPC "spicing up" the sound.


----------



## AudioCats

Also, what kind of interconnect cable are you using?


----------



## Menkau-ra (Jun 24, 2021)

AudioCats said:


> Also, what kind of interconnect cable are you using?


Amazon Basic RCA. But they sound perfect on L300 LTD.
Just tried to use different cables, no luck.


----------



## AudioCats

amazon basic in a $3k system....?  do you have a link to this amazon cable?


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> amazon basic in a $3k system....?  do you have a link to this amazon cable?


https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics...85441&sprefix=amazon+basic+rca,aps,321&sr=8-4


----------



## Tugbars (Jun 24, 2021)

L700 is just brighter in treble, frequency responses of both headphones also suggest that.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f92g9chd8if1qjz/Stax SR-L700.pdf?dl=0  L700
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sknm9lejxobvo17/Stax SR-L300 LTD.pdf?dl=0 L300LTE

that 6khz peak seem to be bothering him. 2-4khz range is also recessed on L300LTE, that may be the case too.


----------



## DenverW

New owner of a 70xxx 007.  I'm running it with a KGSS amp and although it might be getting a little less power than I've seen recommended, I'm REALLY liking the sound right now.  Very different from my current set up of Bottlehead crackatwoa and Auteur, and a great counterpoint.  Tubey rich tones and stax clarity.  Good times.  Now if I can just encourage my family to go to bed earlier so I have more listening time....


----------



## AudioCats

Menkau-ra said:


> https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-2-Male-RCA-Audio-Cable/dp/B01D5H8P0G/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3AG8ZAB4WK6F5&dchild=1&keywords=amazon+basic+rca+cable&qid=1624585441&sprefix=amazon+basic+rca,aps,321&sr=8-4



review of this cable, from "Desert Rat"
"....
Update: I cut some of these Amazon cables in half to make shorter cables, using solderable Neutrik REAN RCA plugs for the cut ends. Cable uses a braided shield that is maybe 40% coverage at best. Center conductor is stranded and appears to be at least the 23ga as advertised. Center conductor insulation appears to be some type of foamed PE. Capacitance measures about 20 pF per foot which is pretty good.
Now the odd thing: *the braid and center conductor material appears to be some kind of nickle clad aluminum, because the conductor end cuts do not show any copper. This material is not tinned copper.* It is extremely shiny but takes solder just fine. Also, there are two layers of rubber jacket but the inner layer does not measure any conductivity, which surprised me, given the low percentage of braid coverage.
Although I have not personally had any hum or RF problems with this cable, industry wisdom states that an OFC stranded center conductor and heavy OFC stranded spiral serve shield with 90 - 100% coverage will provide the best ground return and shielding for audio line level signals. I'll be reserving the Amazon cables for very short runs and using Hosa CRA-200 series for longer runs."

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics...ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&pageNumber=2

It could be this aluminum material that is causing the complain. SPC and Aluminum can "brighten up" the sound, usually not in a good way. In a low resolution system that can impress people, but with electrostatic gear the brightness really stands out. 
Just because the L300 didn't show this brightness doesn't necessarily mean the system was perfect to begin with. Does L300 have a super warm signature?


----------



## Menkau-ra

Tugbars said:


> L700 is just brighter in treble, frequency responses of both headphones also suggest that.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/f92g9chd8if1qjz/Stax SR-L700.pdf?dl=0  L700
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/sknm9lejxobvo17/Stax SR-L300 LTD.pdf?dl=0 L300LTE
> ...


How do I fix that? Will the L500 cable help?


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> review of this cable, from "Desert Rat"
> "....
> Update: I cut some of these Amazon cables in half to make shorter cables, using solderable Neutrik REAN RCA plugs for the cut ends. Cable uses a braided shield that is maybe 40% coverage at best. Center conductor is stranded and appears to be at least the 23ga as advertised. Center conductor insulation appears to be some type of foamed PE. Capacitance measures about 20 pF per foot which is pretty good.
> Now the odd thing: *the braid and center conductor material appears to be some kind of nickle clad aluminum, because the conductor end cuts do not show any copper. This material is not tinned copper.* It is extremely shiny but takes solder just fine. Also, there are two layers of rubber jacket but the inner layer does not measure any conductivity, which surprised me, given the low percentage of braid coverage.
> ...


I just unplugged the AB Cable and used a Monster cable. No difference in a sound, still harsh trebles. 
yes, L300 LTD were warm and soft sound. The original L300 have issues with trebles too, but not as much as L700. 
I tested all 3 headphones on SRM-252S with Monster cable. Same results: LTD were just perfect.


----------



## AudioCats

assuming the L700 measurement was done with the stock SPC cable, switching to a L500 copper cable should at least help to tame the brightness.


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> assuming the L700 measurement was done with the stock SPC cable, switching to a L500 copper cable should at least help to tame the brightness.


I have less then a week to be able to return L700 back to Staxaudio. Not enough time to get the L500 cable before that


----------



## AudioCats

In such case.....maybe just send the L700 back. Restock fee sucks, but now you have first hand experience with the L700 and know exactly what it sounds like, treat the restocking fee as a "rental" cost. 

Then use the refund toward a pair of 007. (shamelessly enabling)


----------



## silversurfer616

zomkung said:


> Just got SR-007 MK1 driving with SRD-7, 100w Speaker Amp.
> 
> Now I wonder about 009. Anyone here can share experiences?


Had both…SR009S though…with KGSS and KGST and 007 is darker, more heft and slightly more musical but SR009S is technically on a different level. With your setup you might not tap into the headphones‘ potential. I would get a better amp first.


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> In such case.....maybe just send the L700 back. Restock fee sucks, but now you have first hand experience with the L700 and know exactly what it sounds like, treat the restocking fee as a "rental" cost.
> 
> Then use the refund toward a pair of 007. (shamelessly enabling)


But for 007 I will need a different amp? Is my SRM-400S ok?


----------



## arnaud

I’d return the 700 as there’s no way the cable will fix all the harshness you’re noticing.

Having said that, I had exact same issues with stats until … I invested in proper source, nos r2r dac with clean digital feed in my case. Way more impact there than the color of the wire feeding the earspeakers for sure.


----------



## AudioCats (Jun 24, 2021)

I have no experience with the 400 (or any newr Stax amps). In the older stax amps line up I'd use a 717/727 with the 007.
srm007t is not good enough (006t and T1 have less power, so no-go as well).

007 is great, and it is not "in your face".... you can always upgrade the amp later.
(shameless enabling continues.... )


----------



## Menkau-ra

arnaud said:


> I’d return the 700 as there’s no way the cable will fix all the harshness you’re noticing.
> 
> Having said that, I had exact same issues with stats until … I invested in proper source, nos r2r dac with clean digital feed in my case. Way more impact there than the color of the wire feeding the earspeakers for sure.


my source is Schiit Gungnir multibit, also I've tried FIIO BTR5 - same results. Which Stax do you have?


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> I have no experience with the 400 (or any newr Stax amps). In the older stax amps line up I'd use a 717/727 with the 007.
> srm007t is not good enough (006t and T1 have less power, so no-go as well).
> 
> 007 is great, and it is not "in your face".... you can always upgrade the amp later.
> (shameless enabling continues.... )


I actually love intimacy of Lambda series, especially on L300. 
007 used sold for $1300, which is not bad at all.


----------



## arnaud

Menkau-ra said:


> my source is Schiit Gungnir multibit, also I've tried FIIO BTR5 - same results. Which Stax do you have?


See my profile, I‘m out of the game now…  Seems like you already did your homework on the source front so I think the basic answer is that you don’t like the sheen from lambda phones and it’s difficult to imagine you’d like older series as they were far worse. On my end, that made me go straight to the 007 but that‘s a rabbit hole as the amplification requirements are much higher than the lambda series.


----------



## Menkau-ra

arnaud said:


> See my profile, I‘m out of the game now…  Seems like you already did your homework on the source front so I think the basic answer is that you don’t like the sheen from lambda phones and it’s difficult to imagine you’d like older series as they were far worse. On my end, that made me go straight to the 007 but that‘s a rabbit hole as the amplification requirements are much higher than the lambda series.


I even think to skip 007 and go to 009 lol. 009 might be ok with my 400S. Stax has 009Bk, are they based on 009 or 009S?


----------



## catscratch

009BK should be based on the original 009, though it _may_ have slightly different pads.


----------



## zomkung

I wonder how the vintages Staxes sound with different housing
- SR-Alpha
- SR-Sigma
- SR-Gamma
- 4070

I can imagine SR-Sigma and 4070 from many reviewers. But I have no information about the other twos.


----------



## Menkau-ra

catscratch said:


> 009BK should be based on the original 009, though it _may_ have slightly different pads.


I was expecting from 009BK something like L300 LTD since they are 80th Anniversary edition.


----------



## French Penguin (Jun 25, 2021)

Menkau-ra said:


> I actually love intimacy of Lambda series, especially on L300.
> 007 used sold for $1300, which is not bad at all.


Just putting in my two cents, I just bought a 007A for $906 USD and a 717 for $507 (with tax and local shipping). I bought it from Yahoo Japan Auctions and shipping the other night from Japan to East Coast USA costed about $81 USD for 25 pounds worth of stuff bringing the Cost close to a brand new pair of L700s, actually less since I just checked.

Now I cannot comment anything about sound or comparisons because I haven’t received them yet but I have high hopes as long as the 717 works properly.

Sorry for protruding but from some looking around, I found Yahoo Japan Auctions to be the cheapest method.
Have A Great Day! Hope this helps.

Edit: if you buy from an individual, I do not think you get tax like my 007A and had free shipping while my 717 was from a store had to pay $10ish USD for shipping and got taxed, I think it’s 10%.


----------



## Tugbars

Menkau-ra said:


> I even think to skip 007 and go to 009 lol. 009 might be ok with my 400S. Stax has 009Bk, are they based on 009 or 009S?


009 sounds harsher on treble compared to even L700.


----------



## Menkau-ra

French Penguin said:


> Just putting in my two cents, I just bought a 007A for $906 USD and a 717 for $507 (with tax and local shipping). I bought it from Yahoo Japan Auctions and shipping the other night from Japan to East Coast USA costed about $81 USD for 25 pounds worth of stuff bringing the Cost close to a brand new pair of L700s, actually less since I just checked.
> 
> Now I cannot comment anything about sound or comparisons because I haven’t received them yet but I have high hopes as long as the 717 works properly.
> 
> ...


Did you have to use a middle man to buy from Yahoo JP?


----------



## 432789

I hooked up an SRD7 pro (not SB) to a topping A30 pro (-120dB distortion, 6W in 16ohm) with great results. I have never heard electrostatic headphones sound any cleaner.


----------



## French Penguin

Menkau-ra said:


> Did you have to use a middle man to buy from Yahoo JP?


Yes, I ended up using Buyee but I heard many other people use different proxies because they had issues with fees. I didn't look at tge others when I should've. So just a heads up, many prefer the others compared to Buyee, most likely save you a few tens but that's based on what I've heard and not experience.

Hope This Helps!

Edit: package should be here next week hopefully.


----------



## AudioCats (Jun 25, 2021)

French Penguin said:


> ... a 007A for $906 USD and a 717 for $507 (with tax and local shipping). I bought it from Yahoo Japan Auctions and shipping the other night from Japan to East Coast USA costed about $81 USD for 25 pounds worth of stuff ....


so the sellers send the items to the proxy in japan, and the proxy consolidates into one package and send to the US?

what was the overall total cost for 007A and 717, if you don't mind sharing?


----------



## French Penguin (Jun 25, 2021)

AudioCats said:


> so the sellers send the items to the proxy in japan, and the proxy consolidates into one package and send to the US?
> 
> what was the overall total cost for 007A and 717, if you don't mind sharing?


The total cost ended up being $1,470 USD including the tax/shipping on the 717 (around $52 USD give or take a few bucks) , Buyees inspection and insurance plan ($5 USD), shipping (about $82 USD for 25 pounds), extra packaging and consolidation ($19ish USD) and I believe the conversion rate my USD to Japanese Yen had a slight percentage increase. From the photos, the 007A looked in great condition and was a little below average sales while the 717 was more so in the middle of pricing, was checking out the 727 which ended a day later but @zomkung snatched that one up for a tad more. I also used @zomkung help by using the yahoo auction previous sales he posted on page 1357, thanks, very helpful. I'm truly hoping for the best for my package to come safely and work properly but..... I won't know if it will since I haven't heard it before.
I hope this is helpful and thank you all for helping me as well!
Edit: when I mentioned $507 USD for the 717, thay included the tax and shipping before anyone's numbers add up quite differently
Edit again: forgot to say, yes the seller shipped the package to the proxy in japan who then consolidated the package into one, buyee charges you but I believe some places are included in their service price, and then ships to my house.


----------



## padam

zomkung said:


> I wonder how the vintages Staxes sound with different housing
> - SR-Alpha
> - SR-Sigma
> - SR-Gamma
> ...


The SR-Alpha is basically the Japanese domestic version of the SR-Gamma without the yellow damping in the housing.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-gamma-earspeakers.515337/
But if you search for "Stax Gamma Pro" you can find more impressions about them.


----------



## AudioCats

French Penguin said:


> The total cost ended up being $1,470 USD including the tax/shipping on the 717 (around $52 USD give or take a few bucks) , Buyees inspection and insurance plan ($5 USD), shipping (about $82 USD for 25 pounds), extra packaging and consolidation ($19ish USD) and I believe the conversion rate my USD to Japanese Yen had a slight percentage increase
> ....


Goodness, those are some amazing prices. 
so approx. $100 on top of the auction price. Makes me want to give that 007t (in unknown working condition, currently $100) a shot.


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> In such case.....maybe just send the L700 back. Restock fee sucks, but now you have first hand experience with the L700 and know exactly what it sounds like, treat the restocking fee as a "rental" cost.
> 
> Then use the refund toward a pair of 007. (shamelessly enabling)


Do you think that L700Mk2 could have different sound signature compared to regular L700?


----------



## catscratch

Menkau-ra said:


> Do you think that L700Mk2 could have different sound signature compared to regular L700?



Slightly. The Mk2 is actually warmer compared to the Mk1, with tighter bass but also a noticeably smaller stage. It also has somewhat hollow mids compared to the Mk1 and there is a certain magic in the Mk1 which is lost in the Mk2. However the difference I think is due to fit, because when I put the Mk2 headband on the Mk1, it kinda sounded like the Mk2.

So if you're having brightness issues with the Mk2, the Mk1 will be even worse. Of course, YMMV. Some people don't hear either one as bright at all.

A good software EQ will fix it, but you have to know how to use it. Otherwise, just get a L300 Limited or a 007 Mk1. The newer 007s also are somewhat bright, though it's more upper treble brightness than lower treble edginess like the L700.


----------



## Menkau-ra (Jun 25, 2021)

catscratch said:


> Slightly. The Mk2 is actually warmer compared to the Mk1, with tighter bass but also a noticeably smaller stage. It also has somewhat hollow mids compared to the Mk1 and there is a certain magic in the Mk1 which is lost in the Mk2. However the difference I think is due to fit, because when I put the Mk2 headband on the Mk1, it kinda sounded like the Mk2.
> 
> So if you're having brightness issues with the Mk2, the Mk1 will be even worse. Of course, YMMV. Some people don't hear either one as bright at all.
> 
> A good software EQ will fix it, but you have to know how to use it. Otherwise, just get a L300 Limited or a 007 Mk1. The newer 007s also are somewhat bright, though it's more upper treble brightness than lower treble edginess like the L700.


Thank you for your detailed answer. I am talking to Staxaudio now to maybe try the L500 cable, it's $140, but it's the last step that I can do on L700 before return.

I don't really want to use EQ because I know that L300 LTD are perfect AS IS. But they are hard to find. Do you know anybody with L300 LTD how wants to sell them?  

007Mk1 is an option, but requires more investments on the AMP


----------



## AudioCats

French Penguin said:


> .....
> yes the seller shipped the package to the proxy in japan who then consolidated the package into one, buyee charges you but I believe some places are included in their service price, and then ships to my house.


Do you put in a certain amount into the Buyee account when setting up the account? and do you pay the auction price to Buyee or directly to the seller? There is probably paypal fee as well, around 5% I suppose? 
sorry for all these questions, Buyee's pages don't show this info.


----------



## kwansheungchi

AudioCats said:


> Do you put in a certain amount into the Buyee account when setting up the account? and do you pay the auction price to Buyee or directly to the seller? There is probably paypal fee as well, around 5% I suppose?
> sorry for all these questions, Buyee's pages don't show this info.


You do not need to put money into Buyee account, you can pay with PayPal or credit card when you bid or purchase anything. You pay the auction price & service fee to Buyee and they will handle everything with the seller. You may also have to pay domestic shipping cost to Buyee together with the international shipping cost. I don't think there's PayPal fee involved, but the conversion rate offered by Buyee is higher than usual.


----------



## French Penguin (Jun 25, 2021)

AudioCats said:


> Do you put in a certain amount into the Buyee account when setting up the account? and do you pay the auction price to Buyee or directly to the seller? There is probably paypal fee as well, around 5% I suppose?
> sorry for all these questions, Buyee's pages don't show this info.


I didn't have to put any money within the account, only payed at the end for the auction using PayPal. Making the account was free as well. You bid on Buyee yahoo auction tab which shows everything from yahoo auctions but is still on their website. I am going to guess their was a paypal fee or a fee from going from USD to JPY since it was about 4%-5% more expensive.

From what I've read, many people preferred other proxy websites than buyee, more so for fees but I personally didn't have any issues as long as they don't change the shipping cost even though they have already charged. I believe one of the places I heard was Zenmarket?

Don't worry about asking questions, I just hope this is helpful.

Edit: only mentioning the 4%-5% fee because it was that much more than directly from Yahoo Auction but I should clarify, I do not know exactly where the fee is from


----------



## kwansheungchi

Buyee also gives out a lot of discount coupon, you can claim those coupon on the coupon tab and use them when you place a bid or ship your items, depends on what sort of coupon you have.


----------



## AudioCats (Jun 26, 2021)

Menkau-ra said:


> I even think to skip 007 and go to 009 lol. ...



009 is prone to channel imbalance issues. The warranty might come in handy if that happens.
I didn't recommend the esp950 for this specific reason, even though 950 actually have a "lifetime warranty".

007 on the other hand has a long track record of providing trouble-free service.


----------



## ThibSan

Just joined the 12%... 009S did get worse pretty quick: from a decentered presentation to an almost totally quiet left channel in less than a week. The headphones are back to the local distributor who should be able to do something (hopefully sparing me sending the HP to Japan).


----------



## Menkau-ra

catscratch said:


> Slightly. The Mk2 is actually warmer compared to the Mk1, with tighter bass but also a noticeably smaller stage. It also has somewhat hollow mids compared to the Mk1 and there is a certain magic in the Mk1 which is lost in the Mk2. However the difference I think is due to fit, because when I put the Mk2 headband on the Mk1, it kinda sounded like the Mk2.
> 
> So if you're having brightness issues with the Mk2, the Mk1 will be even worse. Of course, YMMV. Some people don't hear either one as bright at all.
> 
> A good software EQ will fix it, but you have to know how to use it. Otherwise, just get a L300 Limited or a 007 Mk1. The newer 007s also are somewhat bright, though it's more upper treble brightness than lower treble edginess like the L700.


You are talking about SR-007Mk1 and Mk2 but I've seen 007A. How does it sound?


----------



## Sebbai

Mach3 said:


> Posted by saoudad
> Regarding Voltage input to a 717 and 007t I can clarify that:
> 
> The power supply transformer has 7 tap on the input side which are
> ...


Tried to install jumper on 3 and 5 to get 220 v but the only thing happening is the fuse box in my house switch to off. (I have trouble explaining in proper English) 

Any idea what is wrong?


----------



## catscratch

007A is just the Japanese domestic name for the 007 Mk2. It has a different paint scheme, but in theory it should sound the same. In reality, there could be differences as Stax are known to make changes and updates without telling anybody about it, but I wouldn't know anything about them.


----------



## zomkung

What do you guys think about SR-007 Mk-1 with SR-009/S Earpads?


----------



## sonics

zomkung said:


> What do you guys think about SR-007 Mk-1 with SR-009/S Earpads?


Well worth trying.
See
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods.754839/


----------



## French Penguin

Hey guys, I'm back again. So surprisingly my package went from Japan to two towns away from me on the East Coast in one day. Would've had it here today but it was snagged by Clearance since it didn't have a well description or an HTS Code, oh well, hopefully it comes tomorrow... I do have one question. The Stax SRM-717 has a little voltage selector system on the back, do I really just have to pull it out of the 100V and turn the arrow to 117V and not have to change anything internally? I am truly impressed with how fast it got here when I just ordered a package from amazon from California that took 14 days...

Thank You!


----------



## zomkung

sonics said:


> Well worth trying.
> See
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods.754839/



I am afraid to break the stuff by doing the DIY. Not sure if it has any difficulty to apply 009 earpads to 007 directly.


----------



## Menkau-ra (Jun 29, 2021)

I burned in my L700Mk2 for another 100hrs and WOW! They sound MUCH better, they still have harsh trebles, but only a little. I believe that it will go away after another 100hrs.


----------



## robo24

zomkung said:


> I am afraid to break the stuff by doing the DIY. Not sure if it has any difficulty to apply 009 earpads to 007 directly.


It's so much easier getting the 009 pads on the 007 than it is getting their own 007 pads on. Just ditch the spring!


----------



## Dynamo5561

I have a question regarding the Stax SR-007. There can be found different information when the Stax SR-007 is MK2.5 or MK2.9. Some say, it can be detected by the serial number while others say that the serial numbers are not sequential. Also there is different information about what serial numbers apply to the MK2.9. 

Are there some distinct points that can be used to identify a MK2.9?

Thanks!


----------



## Menkau-ra

arnaud said:


> I’d return the 700 as there’s no way the cable will fix all the harshness you’re noticing.
> 
> Having said that, I had exact same issues with stats until … I invested in proper source, nos r2r dac with clean digital feed in my case. Way more impact there than the color of the wire feeding the earspeakers for sure.


I did sent the L700Mk2 back today. I noticed that I enjoy L300 EQ'd with Schiit Loki+ better then L700.


----------



## Mach3

Sebbai said:


> Tried to install jumper on 3 and 5 to get 220 v but the only thing happening is the fuse box in my house switch to off. (I have trouble explaining in proper English)
> 
> Any idea what is wrong?


Um.. what amp you using first, got photo would be better.


----------



## Sebbai

Mach3 said:


> Um.. what amp you using first, got photo would be better.


It’s a Stax 717t2 I think, will check again when I get back home. It’s 100V now, and found some readings the the jumper bars should be installed on 3,5 for 220V. In my country he normal voltage is 230v, so tried 2,5 for 240v but nothing happened. On jumperbars 3,5 the fuse on in my house fuse box went off and killed the power. The post said something about soldering on the power socket that I didn’t get.


----------



## AudioCats (Jul 2, 2021)

Sebbai said:


> It’s a Stax 717t2 I think, will check again when I get back home. It’s 100V now, and found some readings the the jumper bars should be installed on 3,5 for 220V. In my country he normal voltage is 230v, so tried 2,5 for 240v but nothing happened. On jumperbars 3,5 the fuse on in my house fuse box went off and killed the power. The post said something about soldering on the power socket that I didn’t get.....



The jumper/fuse scheme looks to be the same as in my 007t

from what I can see in my 007t,
to set to 100v: install jumper #1 & 3 & 6
to set to 117v: install jumper #2 & 4 & 6
to set to 220v: install jumper #3 & 5
to set to 240v: install jumper #2 & 5

with #2 & 5 installed, and power switch on, the resistance measured at the IEC power socket pins should be around 13 ohms.

from how it looks in the photos, the main fuse (the horizontal one above the jumpers) might have popped.


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> The jumper/fuse scheme looks to be the same as in my 007t
> 
> from what I can see in my 007t,
> to set to 100v: install jumper #1 & 3 & 6
> ...


is it possible to do on all newer Stax amps?


----------



## AudioCats

probably not, the jumper board is not universal. My "117v" 007t has these jumpers, my "100/117v" 007t has the black bar thing in the back for setting voltage.

Supposedly the older 100v Japan-only amps have proper tabs at the transformer so can be wired for different voltages, but the newer -A or -ii amps don't have such tabs anymore. Something to keep in mind when buying 100v Japan models.


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 2, 2021)

Dynamo5561 said:


> I have a question regarding the Stax SR-007. There can be found different information when the Stax SR-007 is MK2.5 or MK2.9. Some say, it can be detected by the serial number while others say that the serial numbers are not sequential. Also there is different information about what serial numbers apply to the MK2.9.
> 
> Are there some distinct points that can be used to identify a MK2.9?
> 
> Thanks!


There's nothing on 007's to help you to identify mk2.9 models. If it's bought in last 3.5 years, it's mk 2.9. Rumors say models with the serial number below of SZ3 2000~ are mk2.5. Again, these are rumors and nothing more.


----------



## Mach3

Sebbai said:


> It’s a Stax 717t2 I think, will check again when I get back home. It’s 100V now, and found some readings the the jumper bars should be installed on 3,5 for 220V. In my country he normal voltage is 230v, so tried 2,5 for 240v but nothing happened. On jumperbars 3,5 the fuse on in my house fuse box went off and killed the power. The post said something about soldering on the power socket that I didn’t get.


I've got the same unit as Audiocats mentioned you got the wrong configuration for 220v and likely blown the fuses. Use a multimeter to check. And replace with same voltage and amp fuses.


Menkau-ra said:


> is it possible to do on all newer Stax amps?


No as, all the new amp don't have multi tap transformer. Whatever it came with that the voltage. Only option is to either replace the transfer or use a step up/down transformer


----------



## Sebbai (Jul 4, 2021)

Mach3 said:


> I've got the same unit as Audiocats mentioned you got the wrong configuration for 220v and likely blown the fuses. Use a multimeter to check. And replace with same voltage and amp fuses.
> 
> No as, all the new amp don't have multi tap transformer. Whatever it came with that the voltage. Only option is to either replace the transfer or use a step up/down transformer


The fuse is TOYO 250V 1.5A. Can i use 2A? Or is 1A better? Also wondering if it is slow or fast blow? Newer bought fuse’s before any recommended suppliers that ship worldwide (EU) for a reasonable price?

The STAX model is SRM-717 (No t2)

Also what is the right configuration for 230V?


----------



## eee1111

Is there any difference other than color between the 007 mk2 and the 007A?


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

eee1111 said:


> Is there any difference other than color between the 007 mk2 and the 007A?


no


----------



## Sebbai

AudioCats said:


> The jumper/fuse scheme looks to be the same as in my 007t
> 
> from what I can see in my 007t,
> to set to 100v: install jumper #1 & 3 & 6
> ...


Thank you! Replacing the fuse and jumpers installed #2 & 5 worked


----------



## Menkau-ra

Is SRM-353x BK Limited Edition any different from regular 353x?


----------



## buzzlulu

Same
Was sold together with L300LE. 
Great set and my gateway drug.


----------



## Menkau-ra

buzzlulu said:


> Same
> Was sold together with L300LE.
> Great set and my gateway drug.


So no difference?


----------



## buzzlulu

Same=no difference
One is black - one is silver


----------



## Menkau-ra

buzzlulu said:


> Same=no difference
> One is black - one is silver


I see that you also have 404 LE. How are they compared to L300 LTD?


----------



## buzzlulu

Cannot really comment.  I bought the 404LE only a few months ago after luckily finding a pair on USAudiomart.  It was an opportunity I did not want to pass up.  Unfortunately I have not had the chance to listen to them in depth.

The L300LE can still be found.  The 404LE are difficult to find.


----------



## Menkau-ra

buzzlulu said:


> Cannot really comment.  I bought the 404LE only a few months ago after luckily finding a pair on USAudiomart.  It was an opportunity I did not want to pass up.  Unfortunately I have not had the chance to listen to them in depth.
> 
> The L300LE can still be found.  The 404LE are difficult to find.


If Stax was selling L300LTD with 353x BK in the bundle does it mean that 353x BK is the best amp for the LTD?


----------



## zomkung (Jul 6, 2021)

I need to use the amp with 220V, while the Japan version came with 100V. Is the stepdown transformer the best way?

Refer to this.


> The link you gave me is leading back to this thread.
> But I know what you're saying by 'internally soldering job' and yes, I'm saying that that kind of thing (rewiring to other voltage) is inoperative.
> I heard it from my friend who usually repairs STAX gears that some newer SRM-727A and SRM-323S cannot be modified to other voltage. (in this case, 100V to 220V)
> He said that he was not able to rewire it to other voltage as internal cables were different from older STAX amps.
> ...


----------



## buzzlulu

It is not that they were sold in a bundle.  Each item was sold separately however both were marketed as 80th anniversary special editions.

The "best" amplifier for the LTD?  IMHO do some more forum reading and research.  Many feel none of the Stax amplifiers are the "best".  For that many feel and agree third party amplifiers based on KG designs are the "best".  I know that is how I feel.

With that said a "set" of L300LE/353XBK is a great gateway drug to Stax.  My Utopia cost $4200 headphone only - no amp.  My L300LE/353XBK headphone and amp cost $1600 new.  One could live happily ever after with the Stax setup (provided one used the best source they could afford (since I am primarily in 2 channel it is ALWAYS source first for me)).

As always your mileage may vary.


----------



## Menkau-ra

buzzlulu said:


> It is not that they were sold in a bundle.  Each item was sold separately however both were marketed as 80th anniversary special editions.
> 
> The "best" amplifier for the LTD?  IMHO do some more forum reading and research.  Many feel none of the Stax amplifiers are the "best".  For that many feel and agree third party amplifiers based on KG designs are the "best".  I know that is how I feel.
> 
> ...


$1600? Where can I get them for this price?  
What KG is a good starter amp for L300LTD?


----------



## AudioCats

Get a 717, and you will be set for a while. It can drive the 007, any Lambda type phones will be a piece of cake.


----------



## buzzlulu

Menkau-ra said:


> $1600? Where can I get them for this price?
> What KG is a good starter amp for L300LTD?


That was the list price when they were available on release. Unfortunately all sold out now so you will have to keep a lookout on the resell sights.

As for amplifiers go to Birgir's website Mjolnir Audio.


----------



## AnakChan

I actually whipped out my SR-007Mk1s today in about almost 2 years. These days my preferences have changes that I do like a warmer signature. Drove these with my Eddie Current Electra.


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> Get a 717, and you will be set for a while. It can drive the 007, any Lambda type phones will be a piece of cake.


There is T1 for sale now. Is it better then 717? Does tubes color the sound?


----------



## padam

Menkau-ra said:


> There is T1 for sale now. Is it better then 717? Does tubes color the sound?


It's all relative and depends on several factors (the source, headphones, types of music, etc.)
The T1 has a warmer, more open sound with lusher mids but it is less dynamic and less controlled in the bass.
I prefer the T1, even though it is technically inferior.


----------



## protoss

@AnakChan 

I came to the conclusion that the Holy grail of sound is "warm." 

It's the HE90/007MK1  warm, colorful sound. With texture that peels aways the layers of sound. The fire sound, that's musical, lush and smooth, igniting euphoria to your soul.


----------



## AudioCats (Jul 7, 2021)

some technical details:

717/kgss has 4 stages, T1/006t has 3 stages.

The first 2 stages are mostly the same;
717/kgss use a 3rd stage for voltage boost; then a 4th stage for dedicated current boost, this 4th stage has constant current source (CCS) load which helps to force more juice to the output ( ==>better bass control);
T1/006t only has the 3rd stage, using 6FQ7 tubes, to do voltage and current at the same time. No CCS load ==> less bass control.

At one point I had a T1s and a T1w, at the same time, both worked well with the sr-Lambda I had at the time. but... there was a kind of upper mid-range (female voice region) glare. Very annoying, I could not stand it.  Same with both amps. Sold both of them later.
Not sure if the original T1 or the later 006t have this problem.
I have always thought the glare is from the zener diodes in the 2nd stage, but 007t also has these diodes and I don't notice this problem with my 007t's.
(007t is mostly a beefed up version of 006t, with current boot between stage-2 and 3.
The main problem with 007t is the sound has a "compressed" feel to it. Also the extra long warm-up time, it takes a least a few hours to get the sound to open up.)

Overall, I feel the 717 is the sweet spot in amps. Being an older generation amp, the transformer supposedly can be rewired to accommodate any voltage, so getting a 100v version, for cheap, from Japan, will still work out fine.


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> some technical details:
> 
> 717/kgss has 4 stages, T1/006t has 3 stages.
> 
> ...


I was testing L300 on SRM-252S and SRM-400S. To my ears there was maybe 5% difference in the sound: 400S has a very little more resolution and was softer. I sent the 400S back.


----------



## protoss

@Menkau-ra 

It's a shame that the 400S is not priced at $400 or less.


----------



## AudioCats (Jul 21, 2021)

252 has CCS in the final current boost stage; 400S photos show large power resistors, which suggest it probably uses resistors (instead of ccs) in the output stage, hence the "softer" sound?
Or maybe one can call the 252 sound harder/sharper?

Since you were auditioning the 400s, which is about $1k.... with that kind of budget, why f#c& with budget-grade amps? 717 costs less than that (and if from Japan, quite a bit less). And the 717 was the flagship/top-dog model in the lineup.


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> 252 has CCS in the final current boost stage; 400S photos show large power resistors, which suggest it probably uses resistors at the output, hence the "softer" sound?
> Or maybe one can call the 252 sound harder/sharper?
> 
> Since you were auditioning the 400s, which is about $1k.... with that kind of budget, why 4&c# with budget-grade amps? A used 717 cost less than that (and if from Japan, quite a bit less).
> ...


I've never looked for 717 before. I did not know much about Stax amps. Right now I am trying to get L300 LTD and then 717 to drive them. Or maybe T1 if you are saying it's ok.


----------



## AnakChan

protoss said:


> @AnakChan
> 
> I came to the conclusion that the Holy grail of sound is "warm."
> 
> It's the HE90/007MK1  warm, colorful sound. With texture that peels aways the layers of sound. The fire sound, that's musical, lush and smooth, igniting euphoria to your soul.


Yes, recently I whipped out my ageing trusty B&W N804 speakers and played my old SACDs comparing to CDs and just the added depth to vocals, the fluid transitions across the notes, I'm enjoying warmer signatures more.


----------



## AudioCats

Menkau-ra said:


> ... Or maybe T1 if you are saying it's ok.



I can not recommend the T1 due to the (potential) glare issue. (to me the vocal performance is the most critical).

If you are into DIY mods, maybe the 007t is worth considering.


----------



## zomkung (Jul 8, 2021)

@AudioCats
Sorry for bothering you.

I would like to ask the local electrician to mod my srm-727A in the next few days.

I don't have much knowledge about this and would like him to follow your suggestion which is putting the toggle switch between global feedback and non-feedback.
*The question is*: Where should the toggle switch be located in the AMP?  (And any things I should tell him extra about this?)

Thank you,

*Edit: *I'm relistening all of my music playlists. Surprisingly, the metal/hard rock genres get a lot of bass slam/thickness. It's so joy listening to these genres with SRM727A(O2-MKI) Non-mod. I'm not sure if the global mod will blow this away(In a bad way, or a good way).

In comparison with SRD-7 Pro, those SRD-7 pros (with Cheap Class-D) give more transparency, more 3D sound, faster, thinner, and lesser details than SRM727A non-mod.


----------



## catscratch

The 717 is a great little amp and well worth seeking out. You may however have to replace the caps as they're near the end of their shelf life.

I don't know about the 300LE, but I prefer the L700 with the 717 over the 007t. The 007t doesn't have enough power, at high volumes it gets more compressed instead of getting louder, and the dynamics just aren't there. But with the 717 it's a different story, much punchier and livelier and it can actually play loud if you want it to. L700/717 is quite a Focal-like sound, except without the messed up metallic highs, but you do trade off some bass extension for it, and of course you have to EQ the thing if you want a neutral sound. I might ruffle some feathers here but I think this setup is quite competitive with Utopia setups, maybe not quite as precise and defined in the highs and bass but more natural sounding and with better mids. I also prefer it over any Clear-based setup, the technicalities are simply much better and it's altogether in a different league.

717 can sorta drive the 007, but it's not ideal. The 007 needs even more power and you do feel the lack of dynamics a little bit. But it's certainly better than any of the other Stax branded amps, except maybe for the 700s, which is basically a 717 updated with modern components AFAIK. In theory it should be about the same as the 717 (and should probably be the best Stax-branded amp currently on sale, though hugely overpriced).


----------



## AudioCats (Jul 8, 2021)

zomkung said:


> ... would like him to follow your suggestion which is putting the toggle switch between global feedback and non-feedback.
> *The question is*: Where should the toggle switch be located in the AMP?  (And any things I should tell him extra about this?)


in a 727 (I don't have this model, what I got is a headamp kgss), my feel is that the switches should be bolted to the circuit cards. one miniature DPDT switch per card. One possible location is the area between the two red heatsinks. The switches will need to be very small in order to fit.


---update: I looked into the switches a little more and don't seem to be able to find a real miniature that can handle high voltage. This one is close but a little big
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NKK-Switches/M2022SS1W01?qs=Eu4Cc6CKHhMIF1EAw/nmxA==
maybe adding a switch is not as good an idea as I thought.


----------



## AudioCats

catscratch said:


> ...But it's certainly better than any of the other Stax branded amps, except maybe for the 700s, which is basically a 717 updated with modern components AFAIK....


 the 717 better that the 727 ?


----------



## Tugbars

Yes, 717 is better than the 727.


----------



## AudioCats

because of the cleaner sound? (global feedback?)


----------



## Menkau-ra

catscratch said:


> The 717 is a great little amp and well worth seeking out. You may however have to replace the caps as they're near the end of their shelf life.
> 
> I don't know about the 300LE, but I prefer the L700 with the 717 over the 007t. The 007t doesn't have enough power, at high volumes it gets more compressed instead of getting louder, and the dynamics just aren't there. But with the 717 it's a different story, much punchier and livelier and it can actually play loud if you want it to. L700/717 is quite a Focal-like sound, except without the messed up metallic highs, but you do trade off some bass extension for it, and of course you have to EQ the thing if you want a neutral sound. I might ruffle some feathers here but I think this setup is quite competitive with Utopia setups, maybe not quite as precise and defined in the highs and bass but more natural sounding and with better mids. I also prefer it over any Clear-based setup, the technicalities are simply much better and it's altogether in a different league.
> 
> 717 can sorta drive the 007, but it's not ideal. The 007 needs even more power and you do feel the lack of dynamics a little bit. But it's certainly better than any of the other Stax branded amps, except maybe for the 700s, which is basically a 717 updated with modern components AFAIK. In theory it should be about the same as the 717 (and should probably be the best Stax-branded amp currently on sale, though hugely overpriced).


what about Woo Audio GES? Is that a good amp? There is one used for sale.


----------



## kzs70

Tugbars said:


> Yes, 717 is better than the 727.


And if the 727 has the global feedback mod,  is there still any difference?


----------



## padam

kzs70 said:


> And if the 727 has the global feedback mod,  is there still any difference?


The modded 727 has slightly less warmth, better bass control, soundstage is a bit more controlled (717 a little diffused) but to my ears they are almost identical sounding.


----------



## AudioCats (Jul 9, 2021)

one 727 auction on yahoo.jp just ended, for JPY 78000.
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/p865375888

another one will end later today.
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k560868101

must resist the temptation.....


----------



## Mach3

AnakChan said:


> I actually whipped out my SR-007Mk1s today in about almost 2 years. These days my preferences have changes that I do like a warmer signature. Drove these with my Eddie Current Electra.


And then angels appear out of no where and started singing giving you an eargasm?


----------



## zomkung

Tugbars said:


> This is kind of off-topic. This is ES-1A - an Omega I inspired headphone designed and built by only one person who has experience in repairing Omega I's.
> 
> 
> *Transparency/Tonality
> ...



Sorry for digging the old post.

I've just checked the price of ES-1A. His shop also has a SIGMA(DIY) with L700 Driver. Very interesting headphones regarding prices.


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 11, 2021)

I will update that review soon. Here's my quick conclusion: ES1A performs better  than 009S in both macrodynamics and microdynamics departments.  ES1A's macrodetail is easily on par with 009S, however I think 009S has the slight edge in microdetail.(slightly) ES1A seem to deal with complex passages even better than 009S, 009S feels muddy in comparison especially in bass and mids. A reviewer explained what I experience better than I could ever do, so I'll just copy paste it:

"The ES-1a chews through music like a bat out of hell, rendering complex rhythms and dense textures totally, effortlessly intelligible. This is certainly one of the single fastest headphones I’ve heard"

The headstage of ES1A is the biggest I've heard on headphones and ES1A sounds very open. Sounds can get out of our head, out of the headphones and float around your ears if the source is calling for it.  The headstage of ES1A is an immersive wraparound with no gaps.  ES1A has superb imaging, top notch transparency, however In imaging, even though ES1A can easily trade blows with 009S, 009S is the clear winner. On 009S sound images tend to get more 3D because of  how 009S layers the sounds in the soundstage. This is the only area that ES1A loses to 009S in my opinion. (don't expect a huge difference still, I'm only nitpicking honestly)

Objectivist stuff: ES1A's 500-1300hz response is something that annoys me a lot. I EQ that area. 007mkI pads flatten 500-1000hz response and reduce the peak in 1000-1300hz area by -2.5db and improves the response between 2-5khz range greatly. The pads can be bought from Vesper audio. 8-20khz is basically(almost) flat, ES1A needs dacs with superb sibilance control to sound *right* in treble range in my opinion. (same for amps) Everbody hears 8-10khz range differently. so I honestly enjoy ES1A's flat treble response from 8-20khz a lot(I use Holo May as dac). 009S lovers shouldn't see a huge problem in ES1A's treble response. Bass response is flat from 40-50hz to 200hz. ES1A's sub bass response is best I've heard on any headphones. Clean, tactile, textured. Some measurements show a peak in 20-50hz range by +3db. That aligns with what I experience too, sub bass doesn't really seem flat to me and there's a small peak there and I really enjoy it. The next nasty resonance area is 4800hz. Because the 2-4khz response is a bit recessed, 4800hz peak might make mids sound a bit aggressive, be warned. Some may like it, some won't.

The way I define macro/micro dynamics/detail terms is aligned with how SBAF uses them.

Probably I'm tricking myself to believe that HQplayer makes a difference in imaging & layering, I encourage ES1A owners to give upsampling a chance.(take it with a grain of salt bla bla) For reasons I can't explain ES1A's imaging gets improved by HQplayer a lot. (sinc-mx filters, LNS15 dither, 768k upsampling): I asked my wife to help me to do an ABX test between foobar and HQplayer and I passed it with 23-2. (Basically HQplayer does the same thing that Chord M-scaler does: upsampling. Dac clocks operate faster and this results to a better time domain performance in theory)

Build quality is superb, I just didn't like the metal grills protecting the drivers. 007's grills and 009S' grills feel way way higher quality than what is on ES1A.  Other than that, the build quality is super good. ES1A's smell red copper in summer days because that is what the stators are made of.(best material for the task btw, maybe after silver).  I find myself constantly reaching to my ES1A to enjoy its super transparent, open presentation and I almost started to enjoy red copper smell too. I hope it's not toxic.

Sorry I can't stop shilling ES1A's. Best purchase I ever did in a long time.

Chain: HQplayer -> Holo May NOS -> KGSSHV Carbon -> headphones


----------



## Menkau-ra (Jul 12, 2021)

I start getting a distortion on SRM-252S  What could cause it?
UPDATE: it was coming from my DAC.


----------



## Tugbars

Menkau-ra said:


> I start getting a distortion on SRM-252S  What could cause it?


you are probably listening too loud for what 252S is capable of.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Tugbars said:


> you are probably listening too loud for what 252S is capable of.


it happens even on very low volume


----------



## zomkung

Tugbars said:


> I will update that review soon. Here's my quick conclusion: ES1A performs better  than 009S in both macrodynamics and microdynamics departments.  ES1A's macrodetail is easily on par with 009S, however I think 009S has the slight edge in microdetail.(slightly) ES1A seem to deal with complex passages even better than 009S, 009S feels muddy in comparison especially in bass and mids. A reviewer explained what I experience better than I could ever do, so I'll just copy paste it:
> 
> "The ES-1a chews through music like a bat out of hell, rendering complex rhythms and dense textures totally, effortlessly intelligible. This is certainly one of the single fastest headphones I’ve heard"
> 
> ...



Between, what is the difference between the stock pads and the pads you are using? Crinacle (Stock pads) reported that the ES1-A is similar tuning to 009 and has a lower technical performance..


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 12, 2021)

yeah, I have seen his ratings. I have 007mkII, ES1A and 009S, I use them daily. I'm confident with my evaluations in other words, I can compare them to each other every day as much as I want.  I joined to his discord servers to ask about why he gave ES1A S- ratings in technicalities, he avoided my questions 3 times in 20 minutes.

He also rated 507's with better tonality ratings than L700.(I have 507's) 507's are super shouty, and their treble is way harsher than their FR suggests. He is just one guy alone doing all this work and I think people are putting too much meaning to his ratings imho. Let's move on though.

If you want my opinion, I think it all boils down to the genres we listen. He listens to female / male vocal music. Hotel California and stuff. I mostly listen to contemporary classical music, German oldschool techno(or related) or ambient music. I think I check different things while evaluating resolution of transducers compared to most other reviewers.  Then again, I don't know what made him rate 007 with S+ technicalities, ES1A is way more resolving than 007 in every imaginable way. 007 just sounds smoother in leading edge transients. ES1A is harsher.



I have this as 24bit/48khz flac. I don't have 009S right now with me(I'm moving to Netherlands slowly)Using this song as a test track, I  am comparing ES1A to 007mkII again as I'm writing right now. As you noticed, I have even chosen an opera piece to favor 007. even when I EQ 007 to match ES1A's response, to my ears ES1A is resolving better than 007.(by a huge margin) If you have another song you think it's more demanding than an opera piece, shoot, I can use it as a test track too.

 this is also one of the songs I use testing vocals. (flac 24/48 version)

and If I choose a techno track to test both: 

007 starts really falling behind of ES1A in terms of resolution with such fast, dynamic songs.

Say, the music I listen is badly recorded, That's the sole reason why I'm thinking ES1A is better resolving than 007.  Holly Herndon is a graduate from Stanford electronic music school, this album has been recorded by probably the best equipment one can ever put their hands on and it's a quite complex song with multiple layers of sounds floating in the stage:



A binaural recording with multiple layers?  No problem, ES1A is clearly better resolving than any lambda I've ever tried. ES1A's separation is especially insane in this song.

These are one of the few songs I use comparing headphones to each other, on these songs ES1A sounds VERY significantly better resolving than 007 in every imaginable way. Assuming Crinacle used right gear to drive ES1A's(which are very hard to drive) and have good enough dac to control its emphasized treble response, probably the songs he listens suggests that 007's are more resolving than ES1A. To the music I listen though, ES1A is clearly and very significantly better resolving than 007. Very close to 009S in macrodetail too.

Edit: 007 sounds smoother overall and transient leading edges are either sharp or too harsh on ES1A. 007 also has darker background and 007 has slightly better imaging overall(not a big difference) as a result of better layering. I repeated this in my previous reviews.  These may be the reason why someone can think 007 has better technicalities... maybe. ES1A is the clear winner in terms of raw resolution, separation and transparency.


----------



## Tarttett

Tugbars said:


> I will update that review soon. Here's my quick conclusion: ES1A performs better  than 009S in both macrodynamics and microdynamics departments.  ES1A's macrodetail is easily on par with 009S, however I think 009S has the slight edge in microdetail.(slightly) ES1A seem to deal with complex passages even better than 009S, 009S feels muddy in comparison especially in bass and mids. A reviewer explained what I experience better than I could ever do, so I'll just copy paste it:
> 
> "The ES-1a chews through music like a bat out of hell, rendering complex rhythms and dense textures totally, effortlessly intelligible. This is certainly one of the single fastest headphones I’ve heard"
> 
> ...


Thank you, for providing those impressions, for those ES-1as.

I, certainly, would possess an interest to be able to listen to those headphones, at some point within time, within the future.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Tugbars said:


> Yes, 717 is better than the 727.


The 727II with the feedback mod is the better amp. It's not that difficult to do or find someone who can do it for you.


----------



## streamenterer

Tugbars said:


> yeah, I have seen his ratings. I have 007mkII, ES1A and 009S, I use them daily. I'm confident with my evaluations in other words, I can compare them to each other every day as much as I want.  I joined to his discord servers to ask about why he gave ES1A S- ratings in technicalities, he avoided my questions 3 times in 20 minutes.
> 
> He also rated 507's with better tonality ratings than L700.(I have 507's) 507's are super shouty, and their treble is way harsher than their FR suggests. He is just one guy alone doing all this work and I think people are putting too much meaning to his ratings imho. Let's move on though.
> 
> ...



Do you have the silver or copper cable? Listening on silver ES1a to your binaural track and it's awesome--just on 252s (I'm on vacation).

At home with tubed Konka amp I actually get more volume out of the ES than my 3 Lambdas--12 oclock vs 3 w/Lambdas.


----------



## Tugbars

streamenterer said:


> Do you have the silver or copper cable? Listening on silver ES1a to your binaural track and it's awesome--just on 252s (I'm on vacation).
> 
> At home with tubed Konka amp I actually get more volume out of the ES than my 3 Lambdas--12 oclock vs 3 w/Lambdas.


I'm glad you liked it. Benson told me that copper cable is a safer choice, so I went with that plan.. Does yours have silver plated cables?


----------



## streamenterer

Tugbars said:


> I'm glad you liked it. Benson told me that copper cable is a safer choice, so I went with that plan.. Does yours have silver plated cables?


It does have silver. I thought, if you pay a premium for it, it's probably better. Then before it arrived I was second guessing myself. I usually like more of a mellow than an in-your-face sound. But there's a lot to like about the detail of the silver. Once I can get to a meet-up I hope I can A-B the two.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Hi everyone. First time posting on this thread. I own a Susvara, an SR1a, and the Abyss TC.

Thinking of getting either the 007 MK2 or the 009s (or both, in time?).

Since the amp question is so befuddling - thinking I'll keep it simple and get an amp that can run both. 

The BHSE is what I am thinking. Please feel free to enlighten me if I should be thinking differently. 

I listen all genres of music. For instance, I play more vocal and bass-light music with the SR1a and bass-heavy music with the TC. The Susvara doesn't get as much ear-time of late.


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## Tugbars (Jul 13, 2021)

Sajid Amit said:


> Hi everyone. First time posting on this thread. I own a Susvara, an SR1a, and the Abyss TC.
> 
> Thinking of getting either the 007 MK2 or the 009s (or both, in time?).
> 
> ...


If you are going to get 009S, BHSE is probably a better choice. If you want a bit more detail, slightly better refined bass, a bit more airy presentation Carbon is a better choice. BHSE is better at dealing with 009S rough top end presentation though. Try Shangri La Jr too(or SR too if you can, you can just buy the headphones).


----------



## Sajid Amit

Tugbars said:


> If you are going to get 009S, BHSE is probably a better choice. If you want a bit more detail, slightly better refined bass, a bit more airy presentation Carbon is a better choice. BHSE is better at dealing with 009S rough top end presentation though. Try Shangri La Jr too(or SR too if you can, you can just buy the headphones).


Thanks @Tugbars


----------



## vintageaxeman

Has anyone ever found a headphone CASE (rather than a stand) suitable for Stax Lambdas? I'm having difficulty finding one big enough.


----------



## capetownwatches

vintageaxeman said:


> Has anyone ever found a headphone CASE (rather than a stand) suitable for Stax Lambdas? I'm having difficulty finding one big enough.



https://www.pelican.com/us/en/product/cases/protector/1500


----------



## BenF

vintageaxeman said:


> Has anyone ever found a headphone CASE (rather than a stand) suitable for Stax Lambdas? I'm having difficulty finding one big enough.


This one is even large enough for 009:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32916748084.html


----------



## eee1111

Sajid Amit said:


> Hi everyone. First time posting on this thread. I own a Susvara, an SR1a, and the Abyss TC.
> 
> Thinking of getting either the 007 MK2 or the 009s (or both, in time?).
> 
> ...


I’m getting ready to go down the exact same journey. If you do go BHSE you can tube roll and the BHSE topic has a ton of info on what tubes to try.


----------



## Sajid Amit

eee1111 said:


> I’m getting ready to go down the exact same journey. If you do go BHSE you can tube roll and the BHSE topic has a ton of info on what tubes to try.


Unrelated but how much of a difference is the OpticalRendu making to your May KTE?


----------



## eee1111

Sajid Amit said:


> Unrelated but how much of a difference is the OpticalRendu making to your May KTE?


I haven’t listened to it without it. I did have a spring 1 KTE and the May combined with rendu is really really good. Optical rendu combined with server is a huge step up from what I was using that’s for sure.


----------



## Mach3

Sajid Amit said:


> Hi everyone. First time posting on this thread. I own a Susvara, an SR1a, and the Abyss TC.
> 
> Thinking of getting either the 007 MK2 or the 009s (or both, in time?).


Saw somewhere on HF forum someone comparing the TC to the HE1 and preferred the TC over the HE1.
I wonder how the TC compared to the SR-Omega or the HE-90 ancient dinosaurs.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Mach3 said:


> Saw somewhere on HF forum someone comparing the TC to the HE1 and preferred the TC over the HE1.
> I wonder how the TC compared to the SR-Omega or the HE-90 ancient dinosaurs.


Yeah, I know a couple of people who prefer the TC over HE-1, for the sheer physicality of the TC experience.


----------



## zomkung

Does anyone know the 'KGSS-A' which mentioned here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-...ith-kgsshv-output-stage-price-dropped.773487/


----------



## dncnexus

Hey all, 

Just found this thread and wanted to contribute alittle. I am relatively new to the estat world, I started with the Nectar Hive + Bottlehead Energizer but sold those off due to the stator sticking problem with Hives and the Bottlehead Energizer not having enough power. Full volume on the pot would not even be loud enough for me.

I then moved to the SRS-3100 bundle of the L300 + SRM252S. Within 3 days of receiving it I got a 10-15db channel imbalance between the left and right channel. But I got to say I really loved the L300 and how it sounded, and I still wanna go into the estat world.

I then got advice from a friend who was very into estats, so now I purchased an SRD 7 Professional that I am pairing with a vintage Kenwood Integrated Amp, and have a Stax L700 coming in as well. Hopefully this works flawlessly and I don't go 3/3 on bad estat purchases!


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## AudioCats (Jul 16, 2021)

Good move. "Lambda + transformer box" is a sure-bet combo to start the electrostatic journey.

(the next step should be "sr007+srm717". Sorry about your wallet)


----------



## arjuna93 (Jul 17, 2021)

Looking for an advice:

I currently use Airbow SRM-253 to drive a bunch of Stax I have, and I wonder if it can make sense to try some other driver. (Airbow is fabulous, so it’s more of curiosity than a real need.)

Due to budget constraints hi-end stuff like Blue Hawaii or w/e is off table at the moment. Anything below 1000 USD for a used unit can be considered, though I’m more comfortable with ~500 USD range (because I am unsure if I get any noticeable improvement).
SRM-T1 and its versions fit the budget, 006t, possibly SRM-600, then newer and cheaper SRM-323 (but this one is likely worse than my current driver).

Alternatively is SRD-7 (SB or Pro-mod) worth a try?

P. S. I’m not an expert in electronics, so “get a driver and change every component inside to a better one” perhaps won’t work for me, though I recon it might be the most cost-efficient way.


----------



## Menkau-ra

arjuna93 said:


> Looking for an advice:
> 
> I currently use Airbow SRM-253 to drive a bunch of Stax I have, and I wonder if it can make sense to try some other driver. (Airbow is fabulous, so it’s more of curiosity than a real need.)
> 
> ...


I've just had SRM-400S which is a successor to 353x. Using Stax L300 there were only maybe 5% difference in sound compared to 252S.


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## AudioCats (Jul 17, 2021)

arjuna93 said:


> .... Anything below 1000 USD for a used unit can be considered, though I’m more comfortable with ~500 USD range (because I am unsure if I get any noticeable improvement).
> SRM-T1 and its versions fit the budget, 006t, possibly SRM-600, then newer and cheaper SRM-323 (but this one is likely worse than my current driver).
> 
> ...


717 usually go for $800~$1k used. Or get one from yahoo.JP auctions (the last one was ~$600, then add ~$50-100 overhead?)

There is a 727A on ebay right now for about $1.1k. 100v Japan voltage.

With these amps the improvement will be very noticeable.


----------



## arjuna93

Menkau-ra said:


> I've just had SRM-400S which is a successor to 353x. Using Stax L300 there were only maybe 5% difference in sound compared to 252S.



That was my point. Airbow mod. version is much better than a regular Stax one.


----------



## AudioCats (Jul 17, 2021)

Do you have a photo of the internals of the airbow 253?
Supposedly they have blackGates in the power supply section. I wonder what other parts are different.


----------



## Menkau-ra

arjuna93 said:


> That was my point. Airbow mod. version is much better than a regular Stax one.


what is Airbow?


----------



## Sajid Amit

My friends, can you kindly help enlighten me on differences between the SR009 and SR009s?


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 17, 2021)

Sajid Amit said:


> My friends, can you kindly help enlighten me on differences between the SR009 and SR009s?


compare their frequency responses each other. All the differences are there. In short: 009S' have slightly better control in high treble range.


----------



## AudioCats

Menkau-ra said:


> what is Airbow?



an audio company that do upgraded stax products (and other stuff)

https://www.ippinkan.com/stax_sr-009_sr-007.htm


----------



## arjuna93

Menkau-ra said:


> what is Airbow?



Japanese boutique audio company that modifies various audio devices (mostly DACs and amps) and sells under Airbow mark. They made several Stax Airbow headphones (I think 4 models) and also improved versions of few drivers (I have seen three, the latest being SRM-253s).

There has been speculations on precise nature of agreement between them and Stax and whether they got exclusive products from Stax itself, but I am unaware of factual side. Some reviewers ranked Airbow SC-21 above that-time top Staxes; here I have seen an opinion that their earlier SC-1 is very close or possibly identical to SR-404 Limited (cannot confirm, I have the former but not the latter).

Some info here (in Japanese): https://www.ippinkan.co.jp/airbow/product/headphone/srsc21_11.html
https://www.ippinkan.com/stax_sr-009_sr-007.htm
(_I have no connection to the company itself, just use their products._)


----------



## arjuna93

AudioCats said:


> Do you have a photo of the internals of the airbow 253?
> Supposedly they have blackGates in the power supply section. I wonder what other parts are different.



I don’t, but I can perhaps make it if opening the chassis is safe (in a sense I won’t screw something up, as I’m not an electrician).


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> an audio company that do upgraded stax products (and other stuff)
> 
> https://www.ippinkan.com/stax_sr-009_sr-007.htm


Where do you buy it?


----------



## BenF

Sajid Amit said:


> My friends, can you kindly help enlighten me on differences between the SR009 and SR009s?


Female vocals sound too thin on 009S, bass has less body too - at least on BHSE.


----------



## Sajid Amit

BenF said:


> Female vocals sound too thin on 009S, bass has less body too - at least on BHSE.


This in with respect to the 009, or in absolute terms, would you say


----------



## arjuna93

Menkau-ra said:


> Where do you buy it?



Headphones only via auctions or used gear websites, since Airbow stopped producing those, from what it seems.
Yahoo JP has SC-1 sold every few months, just keep an eye. I have seen SC-11 there once but sadly didn’t win the auction. SC-21 seems to be super rare, and the fourth model I have only seen on Ippinkan site.

SRM-253/253s is easily available new from multiple online portals like Rakuten or Ippinkan own site. It also shows up once in a while on Yahoo JP auctions.


----------



## Amish (Jul 18, 2021)

arjuna93 said:


> Looking for an advice:
> 
> I currently use Airbow SRM-253 to drive a bunch of Stax I have, and I wonder if it can make sense to try some other driver. (Airbow is fabulous, so it’s more of curiosity than a real need.)
> 
> ...



Whether you want a better amp or to try the SRD-7, I would recommend the Mjölnir-Audio TT or SRD-7. Both of which would be a good upgrade. The TT has the power output of the Octave 2. The TT is more than you want to spend but it is worth saving up for. Take it from someone that owned the STAX SRM-T1, anything from Mjölnir-Audio blows it away. His SRD-7 is a way better design than STAX's and runs $770. The TT is a tube unit with a good amount of power and runs $1150


----------



## Menkau-ra

Amish said:


> Whether you want a better amp or to try the SRD-7, I would recommend the Mjölnir-Audio TT or SRD-7. Both of which would be a good upgrade. The TT has the power output of the Octave 2. The TT is more than you want to spend but it is worth saving up for. Take it from someone that owned the STAX SRM-T1, anything from Mjölnir-Audio blows it away. His SRD-7 is a way better design than STAX's and runs $770. The TT is a tube unit with a good amount of power and runs $1150


what about KGSS?


----------



## Amish

Menkau-ra said:


> what about KGSS?


That is on an entirely different cost level. If money is no issue then yeah, thats about the best or one of them.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Amish said:


> That is on an entirely different cost level. If money is no issue then yeah, thats about the best or one of them.


But it cost only $900 new.


----------



## Amish

Menkau-ra said:


> But it cost only $900 new.


That's a great price. Where at?


----------



## Menkau-ra

Amish said:


> That's a great price. Where at?


Actually it was KGSS Mini, the seller did not specify that.


----------



## AudioCats

all kgss' are not the same. 
The pizza-box headamp ones usually have DATC as volume control, that is at least a $250 upgrade comparing to the more generic blue alps pot ($40). 
I think I have seen basic versions from overseas use alpha which is a $10 part.


----------



## arjuna93

Amish said:


> Whether you want a better amp or to try the SRD-7, I would recommend the Mjölnir-Audio TT or SRD-7. Both of which would be a good upgrade. The TT has the power output of the Octave 2. The TT is more than you want to spend but it is worth saving up for. Take it from someone that owned the STAX SRM-T1, anything from Mjölnir-Audio blows it away. His SRD-7 is a way better design than STAX's and runs $770. The TT is a tube unit with a good amount of power and runs $1150



Mjölnir-Audio SRD-7 is a good idea. I will keep it in mind, thank you.


----------



## arjuna93

arjuna93 said:


> and the fourth model I have only seen on Ippinkan site.



Besides, it is SR-507 Special: https://www.ippinkan.co.jp/airbow/product/headphone/sr507_sp.html


----------



## zomkung

How much difference in terms of sound between SRM727 Modded, KGSSVH Carbon, BHSE, T2. paring with O2 and 009?


----------



## 432789 (Jul 19, 2021)

arjuna93 said:


> Looking for an advice:
> 
> I currently use Airbow SRM-253 to drive a bunch of Stax I have, and I wonder if it can make sense to try some other driver. (Airbow is fabulous, so it’s more of curiosity than a real need.)
> 
> ...


I personally would get a SRD7 pro ( no SB version, those are crap). I have gone through a bunch of STAX amps and they all seem to have a problem delivering enough power especially if you want to rightly EQ your headphones. Or drive a 007.
For a long time SRD7 pro were held back by the dedicated amplifiers they were hooked to. It’s hard enough to find a speaker amp combination which doesn’t hiss (black background noise).
But the headphone amps of today can deliver more than enough power to drive SRD7 box if you create a 4 pin balanced jack with the 4 colored input wires coming out of SRD7 pro, and connect it to something like a topping a30 pro which delivers 6watts into a 16ohm load. You will have total transparency with more power (more clean rail to rail voltage) than all stax amps including blue Hawaii. It’s a no brainer.


----------



## BenF

Sajid Amit said:


> This in with respect to the 009, or in absolute terms, would you say


Both, 009 is perfect in these areas.


----------



## padam

zomkung said:


> How much difference in terms of sound between SRM727 Modded, KGSSVH Carbon, BHSE, T2. paring with O2 and 009?


Ask mulveling or purk, they either have or have owned these amps and headphones.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/t2-finally-bought-one.885161/


----------



## buzzlulu

I have a Stax 353XBK and Mjolnir Carbon here in the house.  I had a BHSE on demo for 3 weeks and then after went to demo the T2.
Imho, and it is subjective and down to personal taste, I prefer the Carbon to the BHSE.  The T2 is EVERYTHING which has been written about it - end game - so much so that I commissioned one to be built.  Now comes the wait.
Headphones used primarily with the above are the L300LE and 009S


----------



## zomkung

buzzlulu said:


> I have a Stax 353XBK and Mjolnir Carbon here in the house.  I had a BHSE on demo for 3 weeks and then after went to demo the T2.
> Imho, and it is subjective and down to personal taste, I prefer the Carbon to the BHSE.  The T2 is EVERYTHING which has been written about it - end game - so much so that I commissioned one to be built.  Now comes the wait.
> Headphones used primarily with the above are the L300LE and 009S



If you can give a satisfaction score (maybe percentage) between each amp, How would be?


----------



## buzzlulu

On a scale of 0-10
Stax 353 amp 5 of 10
Mjolnir Carbon 10 of 10

T2 (from my one day demo) - double the Carbon!


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 20, 2021)

zomkung said:


> If you can give a satisfaction score (maybe percentage) between each amp, How would be?


I have a different opinion than most people here I guess. To my ears, The differences between these amps(carbon, kgsshv, modded 727) are super hard to notice unless you listen your music loud.  Carbon handles treble/high-treble range clearly better than KGSSHV. (include 717, 727 here too) It is hard to put into words of what I experience honestly.  Carbon seem to deliver really good dynamics in sub-bass and mid-bass to my ears but It is hard to make huge claims about anything without doing any ABX tests. If I were you, I would honestly start my Stax journey with modded 727 and develop my ideas with each AB/ABX listening tests I do(vs bigger amps) along the way.


----------



## arjuna93

thebrunx said:


> I personally would get a SRD7 pro ( no SB version, those are crap). I have gone through a bunch of STAX amps and they all seem to have a problem delivering enough power especially if you want to rightly EQ your headphones. Or drive a 007.
> For a long time SRD7 pro were held back by the dedicated amplifiers they were hooked to. It’s hard enough to find a speaker amp combination which doesn’t hiss (black background noise).
> But the headphone amps of today can deliver more than enough power to drive SRD7 box if you create a 4 pin balanced jack with the 4 colored input wires coming out of SRD7 pro, and connect it to something like a topping a30 pro which delivers 6watts into a 16ohm load. You will have total transparency with more power (more clean rail to rail voltage) than all stax amps including blue Hawaii. It’s a no brainer.



I got Audio-technica DA-70: https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/amz/product/AT-DA70
It is pretty powerful, I believe, and I use it to drive my Audio-technica electrostat drivers (which are like SRD-7, not standalone amps). Works beautifully.

Thanks for a tip about SB version. I almost bought one recently. Will avoid then.


----------



## AudioCats

buzzlulu said:


> I have a Stax 353XBK and Mjolnir Carbon here in the house.  I had a BHSE on demo for 3 weeks and then after went to demo the T2.
> .....



just curious...when you auditioned the T2, did you get the impression that the vocal sounds more "mature" (comparing to the BHSE)?


----------



## number1sixerfan

Sajid Amit said:


> My friends, can you kindly help enlighten me on differences between the SR009 and SR009s?



I tried looking for the messages in my PMs but I can't find it (maybe the poster is no longer on here, idk).. but I bought my 009 from someone that owned the 009 and 009s and was looking to sell just one, either one. Gave me his thoughts around both and mentioned that the differences are pretty subtle. Would love to hear the 009s, just not sure that I ever will. 

If the 009S tames the 009's treble just a bit, while maintaining most of it's other good qualities, I'd probably go with it.


----------



## tumpux

Funny thing about the comparison between various amplifiers are they only matter before we got them. Once we got them, all the details, imaginary percentage of differences and justifications to get one are not there anymore.


----------



## eee1111 (Jul 20, 2021)

tumpux said:


> Funny thing about the comparison between various amplifiers are they only matter before we got them. Once we got them, all the details, imaginary percentage of differences and justifications to get one are not there anymore.


I’ve wanted a blue Hawaii for a year now and I notice the talk about better amps. It just doesn’t phase me because I heard it and it’s definitely my next destination.


----------



## buzzlulu

AudioCats said:


> just curious...when you auditioned the T2, did you get the impression that the vocal sounds more "mature" (comparing to the BHSE)?


It was a brief demo.....as only a few minutes were needed to immediately recognize that it was end game.

Mature...that is an interesting description...I like it


----------



## Menkau-ra

Did anybody compare Stax (Lambda or Omega) to Verite Closed? They seem to be very hot headphones now and everybody keeps telling me that VC are better then any Stax.


----------



## AudioCats

buzzlulu said:


> It was a brief demo.....as only a few minutes were needed to immediately recognize that it was end game.
> 
> Mature...that is an interesting description...I like it



thanks, so I suppose the T2 does not sound "aged". 

I hope to get a chance to listen to one, one of these days.


----------



## nzastro

Hi all.
Tried the blutac mod on my L700. Was well sealed as the so called Stax fart was evident.
My conclusion was that it bought out more bass but was detrimental to the midrange loosing space, depth and detail. Removing the blutac improved the listening experiance.
The bass on the L700 is plenty adequate using my KGSSHV feed directly from my Denafrips Terminator DAC.
Guess Stax do know what they are doing! 
Just my tupence worth.
Regards, Tony.


----------



## nzastro

Sorry guys. Am new to Head-Fi and tried to reply to a much earlier post but it ended up here. 
Enjoying my stax journey. 
Thanks for all your posts. 
Cheers! Tony.


----------



## Mach3

Menkau-ra said:


> Did anybody compare Stax (Lambda or Omega) to Verite Closed? They seem to be very hot headphones now and everybody keeps telling me that VC are better then any Stax.


What crack are they smoking 🤣, like to know which dimension they are in to come up with that conclusion, that closed headphone are better than Stax??


----------



## paradoxper

Menkau-ra said:


> Did anybody compare Stax (Lambda or Omega) to Verite Closed? They seem to be very hot headphones now and everybody keeps telling me that VC are better then any Stax.


They are not at the STAX level. Just below. What they do offer is a saturated richness and full bodied experience. 

Very different presentations.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Mach3 said:


> What crack are they smoking 🤣, like to know which dimension they are in to come up with that conclusion, that closed headphone are better than Stax??


They called Stax owners a cult. 
One guy who just bought L300 LTD and T1 and called them less interesting then Utopia and of cause Susvara.


----------



## elton7033

Hi guys I got a question,
A guy local have his WOO WES gen 1 for sale about 1800USD
But I am not sure how does the WES gen 1 perform against other top tier amp like my Carbon.
If it can give a total different approach to estat sound then maybe something I will be interested on.


----------



## tumpux

ZMF crowds are known for exaggerating their toys.


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> They called Stax owners a cult.
> One guy who just bought L300 LTD and T1 and called them less interesting then Utopia and of cause Susvara.


A 800$ headphone running from a 30-year old amp is less interesting than a 4000$ and 6000$ headphones running on modern equipment? Now, that's just impossible!


----------



## AudioCats

French Penguin said:


> Hey guys, I'm back again. So surprisingly my package went from Japan to two towns away from me on the East Coast in one day. Would've had it here today but it was snagged by Clearance since it didn't have a well description or an HTS Code, oh well, hopefully it comes tomorrow... I do have one question. The Stax SRM-717 has a little voltage selector system on the back, do I really just have to pull it out of the 100V and turn the arrow to 117V and not have to change anything internally? I am truly impressed with how fast it got here when I just ordered a package from amazon from California that took 14 days...
> 
> Thank You!



any updates on how the deal went?

I think I have watched enough of these jp auctions, if your experience was all positive I might just setup an account and buy something. 

The old-style srm313 seems to be rather inexpensive in those auctions.


----------



## number1sixerfan

elton7033 said:


> Hi guys I got a question,
> A guy local have his WOO WES gen 1 for sale about 1800USD
> But I am not sure how does the WES gen 1 perform against other top tier amp like my Carbon.
> If it can give a total different approach to estat sound then maybe something I will be interested on.



I had the gen 1, recently sold and know it pretty well. Had it alongside the BHSE for about a year, maybe longer. It's a near top tier amp sonically, but not exactly there. Just a step or two behind the BHSE, keeping in mind that to some the BHSE or any amp at that level isn't even top tier. Not an opinion I share, but get it. 

BHSE is more transparent, although with a slight hint of warmth. It has a bit more clarity, detail and is a bit more open (width, depth, 3d nature). WES is warmer for sure, slightly thicker sound and definitely a bit more hard hitting bass and amount of it (but on the bass, this is noticeable but not huge). With headphones like the 009 or HE60, I really enjoyed the WES and it was an enjoyable compliment difference. With the MK1 specifically, which is a favorite of mine, it just became a bit too dark and thick and seemingly slower in nature. The MK1's bass can also very rarely be a bit bloomy or too much.. the WES' slightly more pronounced bass also wasn't a good fit for that. 

For that price, I said as long as the MK1s aren't your number 1 headphone I'd go for it.


----------



## arjuna93

Menkau-ra said:


> They called Stax owners a cult.
> One guy who just bought L300 LTD and T1 and called them less interesting then Utopia and of cause Susvara.



Comparing a low/mid-range Stax headphone to Utopia? Ha-ha.


----------



## Menkau-ra

arjuna93 said:


> Comparing a low/mid-range Stax headphone to Utopia? Ha-ha.


What about 007 or 009?


----------



## arjuna93

Menkau-ra said:


> What about 007 or 009?



I tried neither so no personal opinion, but such comparison would at least make sense, unlike Utopia vs L300.


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 22, 2021)

Menkau-ra said:


> What about 007 or 009?


Things are unfortunately not that simple.

Usually electrostatic headphones tend to have better treble extension. This is one of the reasons what makes them sound *different*. Given how light their diaphragms are, the stiffness of the air surrounding the diaphragm is enough to acoustically damp the driver and this allows electrostatic drivers to have good stopping behavior... aka good treble extension. In layman's terms, the diaphragm can't get out of control while oscillating, say...14000~ times per second as the surrounding air is heavier/stiffer than the diaphragm is. That doesn't mean that headphones with dynamic drivers can't have good treble extension though. Lots of people misunderstand that.

I repeat again, electrostatics headphones tend to have good treble extension(I make a big generalization here) and I remember that you didn't like L700's extended treble response. Probably you would find 009 too harsh too. As you move up to higher models in Stax catalogue, they tend to get even better treble extension. Some people like it, some HATE it.  This rule applies to Hifiman electrostatics too, Shangri La SR is more treble happy and more fatiguing to listen than Shangri La Jr.

I think using terms such as *better* or *worse* doesn't make any sense while evaluating totl headphones. It's all about tuning and how it resonates with your music taste.  If you want to look from objective standpoint, headphones which have good treble extension is *better*. Then again, there's one more thing to consider: ear geometry. Does Stax tune the midrange according to the ear geometry properly? That is open to debate.

What make people hate Stax headphones is that, Stax -I think- didn't take pinna resonances into account properly while tuning their headphones. They sound *odd* to most people because the way they tune midrange is very different than most other headphones like Sennheisers, AKG's etc. Every company follows a target curve while tuning midrange of their drivers, what Stax follows is(if there is anything they follow at all) is totally different than the others.

I'm quoting from another website:






Basically, Stax doesn't boost midrange enough to fight with ear geometry properly. That's why Stax midrange sounds odd to people who are used to Sennheisers or Hifiman's.

You can find people who prefer AKG K 371's(150$) midrange to SR009S. Easily.

One last note: Talking from experience, headphones which have good treble extension require dacs with excellent sibilance control to sound right. Opamp based dacs seem to crap in their pants when music gets complex. I've tried these super *transparent*, super well measuring opamp based dacs, they add absurd amount of weird artifacts to sounds in high treble range. I think they can't push quantification noise to inaudible levels when music gets complex, their algorithms fail hard. Who knows.

Edit: I decided to add a tl;dr.
Stax tunes their headphones targeting a good treble extension and flat bass, however their midrange tuning target is very different than what other EU/US companies follow. I honestly doubt if there's any target at all! However such tuning is subjectively better for imaging and separation. I find it engaging(maybe I got used to it) however I think I can understand the reasons if someone prefer Ananda over 009S.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Tugbars said:


> Things are unfortunately not that simple.
> 
> Usually electrostatic headphones tend to have better treble extension. This is one of the reasons what makes them sound *different*. Given how light their diaphragms are, the stiffness of the air surrounding the diaphragm is enough to acoustically damp the driver and this allows electrostatic drivers to have good stopping behavior... aka good treble extension. In layman's terms, the diaphragm can't get out of control while oscillating, say...14000~ times per second as the surrounding air is heavier/stiffer than the diaphragm is. That doesn't mean that headphones with dynamic drivers can't have good treble extension though. Lots of people misunderstand that.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your very detailed answer. It helps to understand. Currently my DAC is Gumby A1, which should be ok for bright headphones. To my ears right now L300 LTD sounds just excellent even on SRM-252S. If I want to move up the chain which headphones should I look at? As you said 009 are not for me. Should I try 007 or just buy something like Utopia, HE1000 or VC?

Also, will KGSS Mini improve sound on L300 LTD? Before I've had new SRM-400S and I could hear almost no difference.


----------



## French Penguin (Jul 23, 2021)

AudioCats said:


> any updates on how the deal went?
> 
> I think I have watched enough of these jp auctions, if your experience was all positive I might just setup an account and buy something.
> 
> The old-style srm313 seems to be rather inexpensive in those auctions.


I ended up having to call Fedex due to them not receiving my email to resolve the issue why it was stuck in customs, only took about 6 minutes on the phone including being on hold and was released within an hour. The package was at my house the next day around 9 AM from Indiana to New Jersey. It all came in one box for cheaper shipping due to consolidating the packages and had plenty of large bubble wrap around the individual boxes they came in. Received 2 weeks later my paperwork informing me there were Zero additional charges for importing the two items. Instead of adding this to the bottom, I'll just say some people prefer other Proxy websites which I have no experience with or know if they also allow you to purchase from Yahoo Auctions Japan, just felt like mentioning it based on what I read while going through the process.

The 007A came in pristine condition and was extremely surprised with the effort the shipper went through, rewrapped and tied everything, I should probably go leave a positive review, I mean even the wire was neatly rolled up with a twisty tie. I can't hear any channel imbalance, extremely clean, no smell besides the leather and the earpads has zero wear. I want to try and test the  blu-tac port mod but haven't gone out and bought any yet. Fits very well on head but is a sensation I had/have to get used to compared to my other headphones, mostly about the feeling of the earpads around the ears. I definitely can fall asleep with these on with the comfort, I won't but just saying there's almost no comfort issue, just getting used to the stress from the top of my head to more so the bottom rear of my ears which may be my fault with the rotating ear cups or as a lot of people saying they are loose and will fall off their heads, mine won't, I can turn my head upside down and they will barely move. Many people did say they had to adjust the clamp of the headphones so that might fix the pressure beneath behind my ears making them just float there but my original point which I never said... was the suspension strap has no ill effect upon use or comfort, I'd probably say I have an above average size head.

The 717 also has no issues that I know of besides a few cosmetic things like a pencil mark for I believe adjusting left and right volume but I cant hear any imbalance  which is great to hear. I couldn't remove the anti-gray market screws which prevent swapping the voltages on the back without drilling and since I couldn't test if the amplifier even worked, I bought a $25 120V to 100V transformer instead of changing the wiring on the insides since I didn't even know if it works yet. Oh as I said, I wanted something like the 717 for the XLR inputs which I've heard can fix ground loops to later check my dac/amp only has xlr inputs.... my mistake but will be kept in mind for future.

I definitely need to do more AB testing with my older headphones but I can already say, these do everything better from the quick initial test BUT I need to match volumes to make it much more fair and realistic but the 007A did sound smoother and more relaxing with more bass while having at least the same detail just not shoved down your throat. I also need to AB test my two dacs, I was using my cheaper one initially since it was their but I swear the sound felt a tad deeper for the bass when plugged into the more expensive one, need to test it for sure since I'm only basing on the initial swap and I didn't AB multiple times. I've read multiple times people speaking about the Denafrips Ares II dac multiple times and well if I am hearing a difference between my two dacs, maybe I will move up in the price range just there's a war between cheap and expensive dacs which I don't want to stir up.

Lastly, My only issue is, I do not know exactly how the 717 or the 007A is supposed to sound compared to my used pair but there are a lot of vintage Stax headphones still working and based on the condition the 007A came in, I have less concern about it compared to the 717 but now that I know it works, I can take some of these little DIY tweaks to restore and improve it. Now my fear is, how loud am I listening at since these do not have any sharp sibilance encouraging me to increase the volume to hear more and more.

I ended up writing a lot more than I expected while sitting here listening to them... Sorry about that but maybe somehow any of this ramble with help others in the future or even myself from someone giving me their two cents on what to do and how to improve/fix my mistakes. Sorry Again.

Edit: Sorry but there are a few things I wanted to ask or mention and instead of creating a new post. I wanted to say, I did have my dac/amp covering a few slots of the 717, not much at all but it was enough to cause my dac/amp to implement its overheat protection and shut off and since the 717 gets so hot, I was wondering if I could add a small exhaust fan to help pull the heat out but I read many times that the amplifiers need to warm up to sound optimal, what exactly do they mean by warm up, temperature wise or store up electrically? I haven't read anyone else adding an exhaust fan but I didn't search for it... Should tomorrow, it's late. Thanks for the information and sorry for this extra long passage.


----------



## Tugbars

Menkau-ra said:


> Thank you for your very detailed answer. It helps to understand. Currently my DAC is Gumby A1, which should be ok for bright headphones. To my ears right now L300 LTD sounds just excellent even on SRM-252S. If I want to move up the chain which headphones should I look at? As you said 009 are not for me. Should I try 007 or just buy something like Utopia, HE1000 or VC?
> 
> Also, will KGSS Mini improve sound on L300 LTD? Before I've had new SRM-400S and I could hear almost no difference.



While comparing amps to each other, drive your headphones very loud, something like in 100db-105db range. Differences between amps become very accessible around that level, and once you hear the difference, you can hear it while listening around 85db too. (Remind you, 85db is 4 times less loud than 105db.)

And as for headphones, you can never know how they sound without listening. Try as much headphones as you can.


----------



## zomkung (Jul 23, 2021)

French Penguin said:


> I ended up having to call Fedex due to them not receiving my email to resolve the issue why it was stuck in customs, only took about 6 minutes on the phone including being on hold and was released within an hour. The package was at my house the next day around 9 AM from Indiana to New Jersey. It all came in one box for cheaper shipping due to consolidating the packages and had plenty of large bubble wrap around the individual boxes they came in. Received 2 weeks later my paperwork informing me there were Zero additional charges for importing the two items. Instead of adding this to the bottom, I'll just say some people prefer other Proxy websites which I have no experience with or know if they also allow you to purchase from Yahoo Auctions Japan, just felt like mentioning it based on what I read while going through the process.
> 
> The 007A came in pristine condition and was extremely surprised with the effort the shipper went through, rewrapped and tied everything, I should probably go leave a positive review, I mean even the wire was neatly rolled up with a twisty tie. I can't hear any channel imbalance, extremely clean, no smell besides the leather and the earpads has zero wear. I want to try and test the  blu-tac port mod but haven't gone out and bought any yet. Fits very well on head but is a sensation I had/have to get used to compared to my other headphones, mostly about the feeling of the earpads around the ears. I definitely can fall asleep with these on with the comfort, I won't but just saying there's almost no comfort issue, just getting used to the stress from the top of my head to more so the bottom rear of my ears which may be my fault with the rotating ear cups or as a lot of people saying they are loose and will fall off their heads, mine won't, I can turn my head upside down and they will barely move. Many people did say they had to adjust the clamp of the headphones so that might fix the pressure beneath behind my ears making them just float there but my original point which I never said... was the suspension strap has no ill effect upon use or comfort, I'd probably say I have an above average size head.
> 
> ...



Glad to hear from you!

I have an O2-MK1. When I listen to orchestra music, I tend to EQ the phone to the Harman target. For modern genres, I keep it as it is.
With Harman target, it's brighter and thinner, the detail is a lot easier to pick it out, very sweet-sounding, but a bit too thin for pop or rock genres.

EQ Target
O2https://www.dropbox.com/s/h0zyfb49e1yf241/Stax SR-007 mk1.pdf?dl=0

O2-II https://www.dropbox.com/s/nvnp51oiqdt3sph/Stax SR-007A v2.9.pdf?dl=0

O2-II Blu-tac https://www.dropbox.com/s/9vmsd51kcga12k4/Stax SR-007A v2.9 (blu-tac mod).pdf?dl=0


----------



## AudioCats (Jul 24, 2021)

French Penguin said:


> I ended up having to call Fedex due to them not receiving my email to resolve the issue why it was stuck in customs, only took about 6 minutes on the phone including being on hold and was released within an hour. The package was at my house the next day around 9 AM from Indiana to New Jersey. It all came in one box for cheaper shipping due to consolidating the packages and had plenty of large bubble wrap around the individual boxes they came in. Received 2 weeks later my paperwork informing me there were Zero additional charges for importing the two items. Instead of adding this to the bottom, I'll just say some people prefer other Proxy websites which I have no experience with or know if they also allow you to purchase from Yahoo Auctions Japan, just felt like mentioning it based on what I read while going through the process.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the update. Encouraged by your experience, I set up the Buyee account. (Which required allowing Buyee to "access" my paypal account, don't know what this means. Kind of scary.....)

Some auctions show an option called "ship directly", this method seems to be super expensive, almost $130 to ship a SRM313 to the US.
Hopefully the standard option is much less expensive.


----------



## arjuna93

AudioCats said:


> Thanks for the update. Encouraged by your experience, I set up the Buyee account. (Which required allowing Buyee to "access" my paypal account, don't know what this means. Kind of scary.....)
> 
> Some auctions show an option called "ship directly", this method seems to be super expensive, almost $130 to ship a SRM313 to the US.
> Hopefully the standard option is much less expensive.



They have multiple shipping options ranging from expensive DHL to cheap Sea mail. You can also use credit card instead of PayPal if you wish. Unfortunately, they force you to use a currency of your card, which means you overpay a bit (rate used is not a market one).

Make sure to check Mercari too (available on Buyee). There is not much hi-fi stuff there, but it can be cheaper when you find a thing you want.


----------



## DenverW

Tugbars said:


> While comparing amps to each other, drive your headphones very loud, something like in 100db-105db range. Differences between amps become very accessible around that level, and once you hear the difference, you can hear it while listening around 85db too. (Remind you, 85db is 4 times less loud than 105db.)
> 
> And as for headphones, you can never know how they sound without listening. Try as much headphones as you can.



Disclaimer: I am fully biased, since I have a KGSS for sale!

With that said, I feel the Gilmore amps are head and shoulders above the mid and entry level stax amps, such as the 252.


----------



## AudioCats

DenverW said:


> ....
> 
> With that said, I feel the Gilmore amps are head and shoulders above the mid and entry level stax amps, such as the 252.



they also cost more than the top tier Stax offerings, though.


----------



## DenverW

AudioCats said:


> they also cost more than the top tier Stax offerings, though.



You're generally right, especially if you're looking at certain makers.  However, when I was looking I found that there wasn't much difference between KGSS and KGST and some of the stax models.  Once you move up a bit to the KGSSHV Carbons and Blue Hawaii there is a really big difference in cost.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Are Omegas (007 and 009) comparable with other top headphones like Utopia, HE1000, Diana V2 or Virite?


----------



## dukeskd

Menkau-ra said:


> Are Omegas (007 and 009) comparable with other top headphones like Utopia, HE1000, Diana V2 or Virite?


Yes, and at the moment, very underrated.


----------



## Menkau-ra

dukeskd said:


> Yes, and at the moment, very underrated.


I can't find any good reviews Stax Omega vs other hi end headphones


----------



## AnakChan (Jul 25, 2021)

Menkau-ra said:


> Are Omegas (007 and 009) comparable with other top headphones like Utopia, HE1000, Diana V2 or Virite?


I did write a very short comparison of the Utopia vs the my 007Mk1s/009 in my Utopia 5 yrs back:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/focal-utopia.21682/reviews#review-17317

And similarly, brief comparison to the Susvara in my Susvara review :-

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/hifiman-susvara.22588/reviews#review-19344


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 26, 2021)

Menkau-ra said:


> Are Omegas (007 and 009) comparable with other top headphones like Utopia, HE1000, Diana V2 or Virite?


Everything in engineering is a compromise and the compromises engineers did with 009 are very different than with 007 or Utopia. From my experience, nothing compares to 009 in terms of imaging and transparency. On 009 everything comes through very specific spots in space and the coordinates of sound images(x, y, z) are super precise in the sound field.(pinpoint imaging) Headstage of 009 wraps around the head with a good dac and the transparency is so high that, it feels like sounds are magically appearing around you and floating around freely, rather than coming from a headphone driver.  (Abyss 1266 phi tc almost manages to do that; Omega I, Shangri La also does that)  I've tried Abyss, Susvara, owned SR1A too. SR1A has nothing going on below 50hz(and distorts like hell), rolls off very quickly after 9khz. Abyss is full of non linearities, resonances, cancellations in the frequency domain after 2khz and they don't sound different than how they measure(duh), for example the treble distortion on Abyss 1266 phi tc is quite audible. Susvara has really good midrange tonality, but Susvara is *jack of all trades, master of none* kind of headphone. Very good investment indeed, but they don't do anything better than what speakers can do. Due to room modes, room interactions only few speakers can really deliver pinpoint accurate imaging and(Kii Three + XBT costs 32k$) 009/ES1A fills that gap for me. Since I don't have Kii Three lying around, until I get a pair I'll keep using my Staxes.

Back to 009: The problem with 009 is the lack of bass. I EQ 009's +4db down from 200hz and I add another +2db down from 60hz. In stock form, of course lack of bass makes mids and treble come a bit more forward and makes sound 009 even more detailed. Do you care about good imaging, detail and transparency more than anything? Stax. do you want to engage with your music effortlessly? Utopia. Do you want to have a good all rounder? Susvara. Do you want to decorate your room, are you looking for fancy looking furniture? ZMF.

And yes when we say these stuff in forums, discord servers... they call us *Stax cult*. So be it then.


----------



## zomkung

I have a question @Tugbars 

If I EQ the 007 and 009 to the Harman target curve (Oratory1990) Would they sound the same or similar?


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 26, 2021)

Subjectivists would say *yes*. I'll say * almost *.

Of course, I EQ'd both to harman curve before(or I EQ'd 007 to match 009's response, using AutoEQ), They sound super similar to each other. However, I wouldn't call them 1:1 identical in terms of how they sound to me. Even while both are EQ'd to harman curve, details are still more accessible with 009. This is something that I keep contemplating about since a while.

My Speculations:

1- Bigger drivers(in size) makes the stage and sound images bigger. This might be effecting my perception & psychology while listening. This also happens while listening to super big speakers.(like Wilson Audio's stuff).
2- I think driver size/pads formation plays a huge role in how the soundstage is formed. 007 and 009's soundstage is formed differently in shape and depth.
3-  Leakage. I think 007 blocks backwaves of the driver with its stators more. 007 sounds more closed in compared to 009. With or without EQ. Sometimes I put 009 to my desk and listen to backwaves of the driver(circa 1 meter distance), the imaging is still superb. This isn't the case with 007. 007's imaging is significantly better while I'm wearing them.  Maybe I am misinterpreting what I experience though, I can never know.


----------



## leilei787

Does anyone have a good comparison between Woo Audio Wes vs other Stax Amp such as KGHV or even blue Hawaii? I have a 2nd version of Wes and 007 Mk1, to my ear, the sound warm and thick. I remember someone mentioned that 009 is a good match to WES...but I am curious how Wes compare to others? It seems no one is even talk about WES these days, it can’t be even worse than 717, is it? Thanks


----------



## Menkau-ra

leilei787 said:


> Does anyone have a good comparison between Woo Audio Wes vs other Stax Amp such as KGHV or even blue Hawaii? I have a 2nd version of Wes and 007 Mk1, to my ear, the sound warm and thick. I remember someone mentioned that 009 is a good match to WES...but I am curious how Wes compare to others? It seems no one is even talk about WES these days, it can’t be even worse than 717, is it? Thanks


I see that you owe Utopia, Verite and Susvara. How are they compared to 007?


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> Are Omegas (007 and 009) comparable with other top headphones like Utopia, HE1000, Diana V2 or Virite?


To me, 007 sounded like a cheap chi-fi headphone (on Blue Hawaii SE).
009 is indeed comparable to Utopia or AB1266, but you have to audition them before purchase, as such a choice is 100% a matter of personal taste.
Better buy something that suites your taste, than trying to EQ the wrong headphone to death.

009 doesn't take EQ very well, at least in the bass region.


----------



## VandyMan (Jul 26, 2021)

BenF said:


> 009 doesn't take EQ very well, at least in the bass region.



I guess it depends on what your are trying to achieve, but I have not found that to be the case at all. I EQ my 009s with Roon for two-channel and with a Realiser A-16 for multi-channel and get superb results from both. With the A-16 + SR009, I get thunderous visceral bass from movie soundtracks.

Edit: However, I do agree with the advice to audition.


----------



## dukeskd

I still think the 009 is super underrated today given the current climate of TOTL headphones.

I see the 009 easily competing with 1266 Phi Tc, Susvara, HE6, etc. It just has a different set of pros versus the other cans.

For 009, I would generally describe it as: ethereal, super fast, no coloration/very flat response, treble can get hot dependent on app, bass improves over time and it extends well to the lowest registers.


----------



## DaddyWhale (Jul 26, 2021)

VandyMan said:


> I guess it depends on what your are trying to achieve, but I have not found that to be the case at all. I EQ my 009s with Roon for two-channel and with a Realiser A-16 for multi-channel and get superb results from both. With the A-16 + SR009, I get thunderous visceral bass from movie soundtracks.
> 
> Edit: However, I do agree with the advice to audition.


This is my experience as well (though I do not have the A-16).

EDIT: My experience is that EQing the 009S requires a really good amp/energizer. I have both a Stax SRM-d50 and a KGSSHV Carbon. Though the Stax amp is capable, it is not capable enough to EQ bass on the 9S. The Carbon is way more capable and handles EQing really well.


----------



## VandyMan

I should probably clarify, for anyone that is not familiar with the Realiser, that when I say multichannel I mean multichannel virtualized as two-channel.


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> To me, 007 sounded like a cheap chi-fi headphone (on Blue Hawaii SE).
> 009 is indeed comparable to Utopia or AB1266, but you have to audition them before purchase, as such a choice is 100% a matter of personal taste.
> Better buy something that suites your taste, than trying to EQ the wrong headphone to death.
> 
> 009 doesn't take EQ very well, at least in the bass region.


But 007 has better bass then 009?
Why would somebody prefer Susvara over 009? 

I have some money saved and I don't know which direction to go: standard headphones or electrostats? I love my L300 LTD and 007 or 009 make more sense for me to buy. But everybody tells me to get Utopia or Susvara.


----------



## dukeskd

Menkau-ra said:


> But 007 has better bass then 009?
> Why would somebody prefer Susvara over 009?
> 
> I have some money saved and I don't know which direction to go: standard headphones or electrostats? I love my L300 LTD and 007 or 009 make more sense for me to buy. But everybody tells me to get Utopia or Susvara.


Get the 1266 TC. It will be the most different versus the Utopia and Susvara.


----------



## Menkau-ra

dukeskd said:


> Get the 1266 TC. It will be the most different versus the Utopia and Susvara.


1266 are so ugly.


----------



## dukeskd

Menkau-ra said:


> 1266 are so ugly.


They are lol. But from a SQ perspective, they will give you the biggest difference versus the utopia and sus.


----------



## AudioCats (Jul 26, 2021)

Menkau-ra said:


> ....
> 
> I have some money saved and I don't know which direction to go: standard headphones or electrostats? I love my L300 LTD and 007 or 009 make more sense for me to buy. But everybody tells me to get Utopia or Susvara.



Go to a meet and listen to the real things. Sometimes it is the little stuff that end up being a deal breaker (clamp pressure, weight distribution, etc).


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> Got to a meet and listen to the real things. Sometimes it is the little things that end up being a deal breaker (clamp pressure, weight distribution, etc).


How do I find this meets?


----------



## AudioCats

RMAF is in October, they usually have a good size headphone section. Not a very good listening environment to figure out all the sound quality stuff, but you at least get to put the phones on and see if there is problem with comfort.
https://10times.com/rmaf

Traveling is not cheap though.


----------



## dukeskd

Menkau-ra said:


> How do I find this meets?


Menkau you're in Virginia? You know Headamp is in your neck of the woods right?


----------



## Menkau-ra

dukeskd said:


> Menkau you're in Virginia? You know Headamp is in your neck of the woods right?


Do they have headphones that I can just try in the store???


----------



## joseph69

Menkau-ra said:


> Do they have headphones that I can just try in the store???


HeadAmp is an online store.


----------



## Menkau-ra

joseph69 said:


> HeadAmp is an online store.


that's what I thought


----------



## AudioCats

if audition is difficult to arrange, get the sr007 + 717/727 combo and see how your like it. That will tell you a lot about whether electrostatic is for you.

Stax gears hold their value well, you don't lose much $$ if you end up going other directions and sell the stax. especially if you get them used. Just treat it as "rental fee".

There is a 727ii in the for-sale section, very good price for a US voltage version, no need for step-down transformers.  I would have jumped on it if I haven't just won a 727 on yahoo.jp.


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> if audition is difficult to arrange, get the sr007 + 717/727 combo and see how your like it. That will tell you a lot about whether electrostatic is for you.
> 
> Stax gears hold their value well, you don't lose much $$ if you end up going other directions and sell the stax. especially if you get them used. Just treat it as "rental fee".
> 
> There is a 727ii in the for-sale section, very good price for a US voltage version, no need for step-down transformers.  I would have jumped on it if I haven't just won a 727 on yahoo.jp.


I want to get earspeakers first. Maybe even 009. Are they better then 007 or just different?


----------



## Tugbars

007 mkII's are super recessed in 2-10khz range(about -5db) compared to what harman curve suggests. Besides the harman curve, as I said before, headphones need certain amount of boost in their midrange response to reach to *neutrality,* *flatness.* 007's midrange response isn't boosted enough. (007's have recessed mids even relative to DF neutrality response curve) They have quite laid back, quite smooth presentation. Some like smooth, laid back presentation with laid back mids(LCD4 also shares similar traits with 007). Some don't.

I am mostly skeptical about the audible differences between amps. However, when I compared 727 to Carbon, I realized that 007's treble out of Carbon was much more *sparkly* compared to 727. Without sparkly, bite-y treble, 007's do only sound dark & boring.(to me at least). 007's excited 8-12khz response kind of balances out the recessed mids for me. If the dac/amp doesn't let 007 to deliver that, they may sound boring. Even with Carbon you might not like them though. An amp can't change the tuning of headphones, a better amp can only clear out the unwanted artifacts from the sound without adding new.

In short, there is nothing exciting going on in 007's presentation if you are looking for excitement, or wow factor...  I like the way they sound but they are not for everyone.


----------



## joseph69

Menkau-ra said:


> I want to get earspeakers first. Maybe even 009. Are they better then 007 or just different?


They're different.
Depends on your personal preference.


----------



## BenF

joseph69 said:


> HeadAmp is an online store.


You can call Justin and arrange a visit. I auditioned 009 vs 009S vs 007MK2 vs Shangrila Jr through Blue Hawaii SE + Holospring DAC + SU1 interface.
Also tried D10 and D50.
He is a really nice guy, pleasure doing business with him.


----------



## protoss

BenF said:


> auditioned 009 vs 009S vs 007MK2 vs Shangrila Jr through Blue Hawaii SE



What's your quick take on all those? Which one you like the most?


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> But 007 has better bass then 009?


007 has a more full bodied bass, but it sounds quite dark and the timbre in female vocals is off - can't imagine a non-basshead choosing 007 over 009.



Menkau-ra said:


> Why would somebody prefer Susvara over 009?


Never auditioned Susvara, so can't comment.



Menkau-ra said:


> I have some money saved and I don't know which direction to go: standard headphones or electrostats? I love my L300 LTD and 007 or 009 make more sense for me to buy. But everybody tells me to get Utopia or Susvara.


Don't listen to "everybody". You must audition the headphones yourself, preferably on the chain you will use at home.
Electrostatic vs Planar vs Dynamic makes no difference, all of these technologies have dramatically different sounding headphones within their field.


----------



## BenF

protoss said:


> What's your quick take on all those? Which one you like the most?


I liked 009 the most, so I bought it.

Female voices sound too thin on 009S, perfect on 009 ("Hold my hand" by Brandy Clark)
Bass on 009 sounds a bit fuller than on 009S ("Falling" by Haim)

007 Mk is warmer and less transparent than 009, timbre is off.
Bass on 007 is fuller than on both 009 and 009S.

Shangrila Jr - harder to drive than 009, need to go 2-3 settings above 009 for the same volume
Shangrila Jr sounds like a less "live" version of 009, bass is as good as 009 though


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> I liked 009 the most, so I bought it.
> 
> Female voices sound too thin on 009S, perfect on 009 ("Hold my hand" by Brandy Clark)
> Bass on 009 sounds a bit fuller than on 009S ("Falling" by Haim)
> ...


Do you think that I can drive 009 or 009S on SRM-252S till I get a better amp?
They sell 009S bundled with D10 which should be almost like 252S.


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> Do you think that I can drive 009 or 009S on SRM-252S till I get a better amp?
> They sell 009S bundled with D10 which should be almost like 252S.


Don't buy 009S without auditioning it vs 009 - Stax tried to improve a perfection, and I think they failed.

252S will drive 009(s) properly, D10 won't.


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> Don't buy 009S without auditioning it vs 009 - Stax tried to improve a perfection, and I think they failed.
> 
> 252S will drive 009(s) properly, D10 won't.


There are used 009 for $2400 now. Should I buy it?
I know, the perfect driver in L300 LTD is way better then new L700Mk2.


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> There are used 009 for $2400 now. Should I buy it?
> I know, the perfect driver in L300 LTD is way better then new L700Mk2.


It's a great price for 009, but I still wouldn't buy it without auditioning first.
Also pay attention to the state of the pads - replacement pads are 180$ https://www.headamp.com/products/stax-ep-009-replacement-earpads-for-sr-009-series-earspeakers


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## Menkau-ra (Jul 27, 2021)

BenF said:


> It's a great price for 009, but I still wouldn't buy it without auditioning first.
> Also pay attention to the state of the pads - replacement pads are 180$ https://www.headamp.com/products/stax-ep-009-replacement-earpads-for-sr-009-series-earspeakers


If the price is good I should be able to re-sell it if I don't like it. Pads seems to be ok.
How does 009 sound compared to L300 LTD?


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> If the price is good I should be able to re-sell it if I don't like it. Pads seems to be ok.
> How does 009 sound compared to L300 LTD?


No comparison, 009 is on another level.


----------



## joseph69

BenF said:


> You can call Justin and arrange a visit. I auditioned 009 vs 009S vs 007MK2 vs Shangrila Jr through Blue Hawaii SE + Holospring DAC + SU1 interface.
> Also tried D10 and D50.
> He is a really nice guy, pleasure doing business with him.





BenF said:


> Don't listen to "everybody". You must audition the headphones yourself, preferably on the chain you will use at home.


Thanks for the info. 
I didn't know Justin allowed demos which is really nice of him and a great way to do business being he isn't an actual storefront open to the public to come and go as they please..

I couldn't agree with you more about trying headphones (or gear) on your own chain (in home) to hear if they're a match for your preferences and your chain, even if it means buying blind (which I've done in almost all cases) to do so. If you're not satisfied, it's worth it to take a slight loss and move on, at least in my experiences.


----------



## dukeskd

Justin and HeadAmp are awesome, the fact that he has been in business for the last decade or so speaks volumes about him.

I would also highly advise auditioning the phones.

My preference is 009. Again, I feel like they are super underrated today in the world of TOTL. It can be #1 for many folks.


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> No comparison, 009 is on another level.


OK, I am purchasing 009 then


----------



## Craylock

Thanks guys for sharing your thoughts. First time I see it opined that 009 bests the S version. Understand that I need to hear both versions before purchase, but it wont be anytime soon. I have had L300/700Mk2/007Mk2 for only a year or so, and my bank doesn't love me anymore. Since theer is so much experience here I'd like to ask about amps as well. I have Mjølnir KGSShv, SRM717/007TII and a promodded SRD7. What would proper upgrade cost me in that department? And is it Carbon CC or are there other options?


----------



## ThibSan

I also echo that Justin is a great guy to do business with, even from Europe.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

BenF said:


> 007 has a more full bodied bass, but it sounds quite dark and the timbre in female vocals is off - can't imagine a non-basshead choosing 007 over 009.


 went from SR-009 to SR-007. Mostly listening to Vocal, Jazz, Orchestral. Some Rock and EDM on and off.


----------



## tigon_ridge

Welp, my SRS-3100 has served me well for years, but I finally managed to end my L300's career. After the unit broke in two different places on the cheap, flimsy, toy-quality headband, I frankensteined it back together, but now I seem to have damaged the left driver by attempting a deep clean. I cleaned the right driver correctly, but for the left one, I made a boo boo, so now there's a big channel imbalance. 

Do NOT try to clean your inner dust filter with a wet cotton swab. Instead, disassemble everything (be very careful not to expose the diaphragm to dust!), then rinse the filter with water, then dry it. The cotton swab probably did something to the stator, and now the driver is way underpowered. 

Rest in Stax heaven, my beloved L300.


----------



## DaddyWhale

Craylock said:


> Thanks guys for sharing your thoughts. First time I see it opined that 009 bests the S version. Understand that I need to hear both versions before purchase, but it wont be anytime soon. I have had L300/700Mk2/007Mk2 for only a year or so, and my bank doesn't love me anymore. Since theer is so much experience here I'd like to ask about amps as well. I have Mjølnir KGSShv, SRM717/007TII and a promodded SRD7. What would proper upgrade cost me in that department? And is it Carbon CC or are there other options?


Hi! I have a Carbon, but NOT the CC version. I love the Carbon. When i was looking to buy a couple years back, it was suggested that the CC was NOT necessarily an upgrade over the plain CC. So you might want to look into that. If i recollect correctly, the CC adds some "sparkle," which you may or may not be looking for.

Also, you might want to look into the Blue Hawaii SE as well.


----------



## Mach3

Menkau-ra said:


> I can't find any good reviews Stax Omega vs other hi end headphones


The Stax Omega is different to the SR-007 mind you. Super wide soundstage, they are a different flavor to the 007 or the 009 series.


Menkau-ra said:


> 1266 are so ugly.


Are you buying headphone/earspeaker for sound or is the priority aesthetic here?


----------



## zomkung

Any headphones would be a good implement to the Stats/Stax system? (Contrast of the ethereal)

I would like to have either HE6 or Abyss TC-1266. Have heard that the TC-1266 has some trouble with EQING due to the distortion in the treble.


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> 252 has CCS in the final current boost stage; 400S photos show large power resistors, which suggest it probably uses resistors (instead of ccs) in the output stage, hence the "softer" sound?
> Or maybe one can call the 252 sound harder/sharper?
> 
> Since you were auditioning the 400s, which is about $1k.... with that kind of budget, why f#c& with budget-grade amps? 717 costs less than that (and if from Japan, quite a bit less). And the 717 was the flagship/top-dog model in the lineup.


l just purchased SR-009 and waiting for the package. I know you said 717 should be really good amp, but I did not find it yet. There is new KGSS Mini under $1000. How is it compared to 717?


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> if audition is difficult to arrange, get the sr007 + 717/727 combo and see how your like it. That will tell you a lot about whether electrostatic is for you.
> 
> Stax gears hold their value well, you don't lose much $$ if you end up going other directions and sell the stax. especially if you get them used. Just treat it as "rental fee".
> 
> There is a 727ii in the for-sale section, very good price for a US voltage version, no need for step-down transformers.  I would have jumped on it if I haven't just won a 727 on yahoo.jp.


what's the difference between 717 vs 727?


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Most people agree that default 727 is a crappy design, to be avoided unless modded. They've excluded the output stage from feedback loop iirc. So if you're confident to do some modifications, go for the cheaper one, otherwise 717.


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> l just purchased SR-009 and waiting for the package. I know you said 717 should be really good amp, but I did not find it yet. There is new KGSS Mini under $1000. How is it compared to 717?


Are you talking about this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/224475834032
Does anyone have an experience with this builder - JR Audio?


----------



## Menkau-ra

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Most people agree that default 727 is a crappy design, to be avoided unless modded. They've excluded the output stage from feedback loop iirc. So if you're confident to do some modifications, go for the cheaper one, otherwise 717.


is there a manual for that mod? I need to see how hard it is.


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> Are you talking about this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/224475834032
> Does anyone have an experience with this builder - JR Audio?


Yes, that one, from MyHeadFi. Is it any good? The price is affordable.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Menkau-ra said:


> is there a manual for that mod? I need to see how hard it is.


https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/8703-the-srm727-thread/


----------



## Menkau-ra

DuncanDirkDick said:


> https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/8703-the-srm727-thread/


I think that I'd better buy 717 or KGSS Mini if it's good


----------



## AudioCats

Menkau-ra said:


> l just purchased SR-009 and waiting for the package. I know you said 717 should be really good amp, but I did not find it yet. There is new KGSS Mini under $1000. How is it compared to 717?


congregations on the sr-009 !


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> congregations on the sr-009 !


I will receive them next week.
Need help with an amp


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## AudioCats (Jul 29, 2021)

Due to the high voltages involved in electrostatic amps, I would recommend playing it safe and get either a used headamp kgss or a 717. It might take a while to find one but it is worth the wait.

or you can splurge and get that $5k BHSE in the classified. You will probably have nowhere to upgrade to after that
(therefore, you spend the extra $$ up front, and end up saving a lot of future time that you would have wasted "wondering")


----------



## Menkau-ra (Jul 29, 2021)

AudioCats said:


> Due to the high voltages involved in electrostatic amps, I would recommend playing it safe and get either a used headamp kgss or a 717. It might take a while to find one but it is worth the wait.
> 
> or you can splurge and get that $5k BHSE in the classified. You will probably have nowhere to upgrade to after that
> (therefore, you spend the extra $$ up front, and end up saving a lot of future time that you would have wasted "wondering")


Just asking how much better the BHSE then 717 with 009 or L300 LTD? Is it a BIG difference or just 5-10% improvement?

The cheapest Headamp is $4k... What about Woo Audio WES? Or mjolnir-audio Octave V2 or TT? Are they any good?


----------



## dukeskd

Menkau-ra said:


> Just asking how much better the BHSE then 717 with 009 or L300 LTD? Is it a BIG difference or just 5-10% improvement?
> 
> The cheapest Headamp is $4k... What about Woo Audio WES? Or mjolnir-audio Octave V2 or TT? Are they any good?


BHSE + 009 would be considered the pinnacle of an electrostatic system. I run that system, and it's amazing.

 I also ran the 009 through an energizer off an speaker amp, it sounded good but the details were lacking.


----------



## AudioCats

Menkau-ra said:


> Just asking how much better the BHSE then 717 with 009 or L300 LTD? Is it a BIG difference or just 5-10% improvement?


no idea, I have never heard 009 driven by 717. 



Menkau-ra said:


> ...What about Woo Audio WES? ...



https://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-stax-sr-009-and-great-headphone-amplifiers-conclusions


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 30, 2021)

BenF said:


> Are you talking about this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/224475834032
> Does anyone have an experience with this builder - JR Audio?


I have. I have used the Carbon built by him for 2 years with no problems.  At some point because of my mistake, the Stax plug on the amp got damaged, myheadfi sent me a new one for free. Myheadfi also sent me the Carbon with a high quality Accuphase power cable(free). My experience with myheadfi was super good.  I see that Birgir is constantly crap talking about JR's builds(He says things like the  power supply made by JR blew up only in one week) but I never had any problems and I compared JR's Carbon to Birgir's Carbon too. JR's Carbon is a bit bright in treble range(maybe harsh too, whatever that means) relatively to Birgir's Carbon and there's a slight grain in JR's Carbon sub bass presentation. Birgir has revised his Carbon design 8 times since the last available DIY Carbon boards, probably the problems on JR's Carbon is based on the design differences. The differences are small honestly.  



These are the parts JR used to build his Carbon with KG boards. I don't know how good is his component choices are, you guys can be the judge. Eventually I bought a second hand Carbon(mjolnir), I have 2 Carbons now, when I move to Netherlands I'll have more time to compare both to each other and sell one.

I wasn't intending to buy JR's Carbon first honestly, I was about to buy Birgir's Carbon. I asked IBAN etc from Birgir to do the payment, but he never answered my mail after that.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Is Headamp still making KGSS?


----------



## AudioCats (Jul 30, 2021)

Tugbars said:


> I have. I have used the Carbon built by him for 2 years with no problems.  At some point because of my mistake, the Stax plug on the amp got damaged, myheadfi sent me a new one for free. Myheadfi also sent me the Carbon with a high quality Accuphase power cable(free). My experience with myheadfi was super good.  I see that Birgir is constantly crap talking about JR's builds(He says things like the  power supply made by JR blew up only in one week) but I never had any problems and I compared JR's Carbon to Birgir's Carbon too. JR's Carbon is a bit bright in treble range(maybe harsh too, whatever that means) relatively to Birgir's Carbon and there's a slight grain in JR's Carbon sub bass presentation. Birgir has revised his Carbon design 8 times since the last available DIY Carbon boards, probably the problems on JR's Carbon is based on the design differences. The differences are small honestly.
> These are the parts JR used to build his Carbon with KG boards. I don't know how good is his component choices are, you guys can be the judge. Eventually I bought a second hand Carbon(mjolnir), I have 2 Carbons now, when I move to Netherlands I'll have more time to compare both to each other and sell one.
> 
> I wasn't intending to buy JR's Carbon first honestly, I was about to buy Birgir's Carbon. I asked IBAN etc from Birgir to do the payment, but he never answered my mail after that.




Thanks for the review, this kind of real world 1st hand comparisons are hard to come by. Much appreciated.

what kind of $$ was that used mjolnir carbon, if you don't mind sharing? ~3.5k? ~4k? ~4.5k?  Does it have alps RK50 (big copper cylinder) or a TKD (black square plastic) volume pot? or a DACT?

and does your JR carbon have any kind of upgraded volume control? The web page shows the alps rk27 (blue plastic square) being the standard part.

any more photos of amps internals?


----------



## chocolates

the RK50 is an audible improvement but i don't believe JR amps have them - i think they all use RK27 unless otherwise specified

just curious but are there any buyers still interested in STAX headphones? i've got a couple lambdas i do not use (due to sticking with my SR-007) but can't seem to find any buyers over on reddit; seems like many people aren't even aware of what they are


----------



## Aurosonic (Jul 31, 2021)

For the last seven months I have been running a convolution filter in Roon with my SR-007 MK1's. I used the .wav files prepared by oratory1990 specifically designed for the SR-007. Previously I had tried multiple forms of DSP and always reverted back as the results were never satisfactory. This was the first time I preferred the sound with DSP applied. A couple days ago I became curious about applying filters designed for other headphones and how they might affect the sound. Jaakko Pasanen was kind enough to compile profiles for nearly every headphone out there, complete with the .wav files and frequency response graphs. Thanks to him and oratory1990, we have a massive menu in which to choose different "flavors" for our headphones. Looking through the various profiles and accompanying graphs we can see the equalization being applied. Most of the filters did not look to be favorable for the SR-007, but I discovered the SR-009 filter looked promising. It's fairly similar to the SR-007 filter, but with a larger bump in the lower frequencies. I downloaded the .wav files and compressed them to a .zip file.

Roon makes it very easy to apply different filters. I would play a portion of a track to acclimate to the SR-007 filter, load the SR-009 filter in the DSP menu, and resume. This allowed for nearly seamless switching between filters. I would go back and forth several times to confirm my findings. The result: big difference. Looking at the frequency response graph of the SR-009 filter you see a gradual increase below 150 Hz leading up to the typical Harman bass shelf below 40 Hz. As you would expect, the SR-009 filter is undoubtedly bassier and more "fun" sounding than the SR-007 filter. I also notice more forward mids, which brings added presence to vocals. Overall sound is much more lively and engaging without sacrificing the great resolution and imaging of the O2's. The SR-007 filter may be more "accurate" and I may eventually revert back to it, but for now I am getting tremendous enjoyment from the SR-009 filter. To those that say electrostats can't do bass I challenge them to have a listen to this.

Some are not a fan of Harman target curves, but if you find the SR-007's lack bass or lack "excitement" give the SR-009 filter a shot. Given the favorable results I experienced I'm curious to try other filters. I may find one I like even more.


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 31, 2021)

AudioCats said:


> Thanks for the review, this kind of real world 1st hand comparisons are hard to come by. Much appreciated.
> 
> what kind of $$ was that used mjolnir carbon, if you don't mind sharing? ~3.5k? ~4k? ~4.5k?  Does it have alps RK50 (big copper cylinder) or a TKD (black square plastic) volume pot? or a DACT?
> 
> ...


Sorry for the messy pictures first of all.




The volume pot seems like it's a RK27.
This is the other side:






power supply, a closer look.

I paid 3600$ for the Mjolnir Carbon.


----------



## Tugbars

Aurosonic said:


> For the last seven months I have been running a convolution filter in Roon with my SR-007 MK1's. I used the .wav files prepared by oratory1990 specifically designed for the SR-007. Previously I had tried multiple forms of DSP and always reverted back as the results were never satisfactory. This was the first time I preferred the sound with DSP applied. A couple days ago I became curious about applying filters designed for other headphones and how they might affect the sound. Jaakko Pasanen was kind enough to compile profiles for nearly every headphone out there, complete with the .wav files and frequency response graphs. Thanks to him and oratory1990, we have a massive menu in which to choose different "flavors" for our headphones. Looking through the various profiles and accompanying graphs we can see the equalization being applied. Most of the filters did not look to be favorable for the SR-007, but I discovered the SR-009 filter looked promising. It's fairly similar to the SR-007 filter, but with a larger bump in the lower frequencies. I downloaded the .wav files and compressed them to a .zip file.
> 
> Roon makes it very easy to apply different filters. I would play a portion of a track to acclimate to the SR-007 filter, load the SR-009 filter in the DSP menu, and resume. This allowed for nearly seamless switching between filters. I would go back and forth several times to confirm my findings. The result: big difference. Looking at the frequency response graph of the SR-009 filter you see a gradual increase below 150 Hz leading up to the typical Harman bass shelf below 40 Hz. As you would expect, the SR-009 filter is undoubtedly bassier and more "fun" sounding than the SR-007 filter. I also notice more forward mids, which brings added presence to vocals. Overall sound is much more lively and engaging without sacrificing the great resolution and imaging of the O2's. The SR-007 filter may be more "accurate" and I may eventually revert back to it, but for now I am getting tremendous enjoyment from the SR-009 filter. To those that say electrostats can't do bass I challenge them to have a listen to this.
> 
> Some are not a fan of Harman target curves, but if you find the SR-007's lack bass or lack "excitement" give the SR-009 filter a shot. Given the favorable results I experienced I'm curious to try other filters. I may find one I like even more.


Try Susvara filter.


----------



## shabta

The thing that concerns me about JR builds is that the price he charges ( I haven't looked for a year or so) on Taoboa (pre myheadfi seller markup) are so low that you couldn't get a carbon for that cheap if you built it yourself. So that means he's using a lot of chinese knockoff parts. He also makes lot of knock off amp and advertises them as DNA Stratus or Wells Headtrip. So while it make sound ok at first, those capacitors, resistors etc may fail or go out of spec very quickly compared to buying quality parts.


----------



## Tugbars

shabta said:


> The thing that concerns me about JR builds is that the price he charges ( I haven't looked for a year or so) on Taoboa (pre myheadfi seller markup) are so low that you couldn't get a carbon for that cheap if you built it yourself. So that means he's using a lot of chinese knockoff parts. He also makes lot of knock off amp and advertises them as DNA Stratus or Wells Headtrip. So while it make sound ok at first, those capacitors, resistors etc may fail or go out of spec very quickly compared to buying quality parts.


He charges around 2500$~ and the parts cost way less than that.

His business practices is obviously a bit sketchy. I agree with that. I shared the internals of the amp to know if someone can recognize any cheap/dodgy parts inside. I don't trust JR, however myheadfi seemed to me as a trustable guy. The Carbons JR used to build before myheadfi is different than what he is doing now also. The internals of his previous Carbons are different. Not sure, how much of it translates to improvements though. I'll remain skeptical about JR.


----------



## AudioCats (Jul 31, 2021)

Tugbars said:


> ...
> 
> I paid 3600$ for the Mjolnir Carbon.



Thanks for the JR photos. The parts look good, not sure how legit the electrolytics caps are but at this price they likely are legit.

Any pictures of the Mjolnir internals?


----------



## shabta

Tugbars said:


> He charges around 2500$~ and the parts cost way less than that.
> 
> His business practices is obviously a bit sketchy. I agree with that. I shared the internals of the amp to know if someone can recognize any cheap/dodgy parts inside. I don't trust JR, however myheadfi seemed to me as a trustable guy. The Carbons JR used to build before myheadfi is different than what he is doing now also. The internals of his previous Carbons are different. Not sure, how much of it translates to improvements though. I'll remain skeptical about JR.


Yes that's the myheadfi price. But if you buy it taobao, directly from JR, it's much less than that. Taobao is an online market place in China.  Myheadfi gives you an english speaking customer service experience, exports the amp professionally (with a warranty) and they are reliable if something goes wrong. And they are entitled to a profit. But the amp sells in china for less than the cost of the specified parts. JR Audio has changed designs just like every other carbon builder. My only point is that he is using knock off parts. So it will probably sound ok for awhile but likely fail much earlier than if you bought it from a builder using the better quality parts.


----------



## AudioCats

What kind of taobao price did you find?

 It seems to require log-in just to see the items.


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 31, 2021)

I remember I paid 15000dkk for the Carbon with the myheadfi markup, the taobao price was 12.300 dkk. (danish kroner). I roughly calculated the total cost of components at that time, it was about 1300$. (9100dkk~). The amp case & interconnect sockets are not included in this price.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Hey guys, hope this is the right place to ask these questions.
With Audeze announcing their first estat tomorrow it's time to get ny stax amplification knowledge on track.

So I was wondering, how well does a speakeramp + energizer combo compete with dedicated estat amps?

I.e. Bakoon 13R + Woo Wee vs whatever estat amp plays in the same price Segment.

Also, what is the best energizer for those already having great speaker amps?


----------



## Tugbars (Jul 31, 2021)

Lundahl energizers are better than srd7's(less grainy treble, better detail overall), you should build one, or find someone who can build one for you.

Energizer + speaker amp setups can't get as detailed as totl direct drive solutions. It's a price efficient solution to drive electrostatics with enough current.

Woo wee has no ballast resistors on its output and can damage your headphones.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Tugbars said:


> Lundahl energizers are better than srd7's(less grainy treble, better detail overall), you should build one, or find someone who can build one for you.
> 
> Energizer + speaker amp setups can't get as detailed as totl direct drive solutions. It's a price efficient solution to drive electrostatics with enough current.
> 
> Woo wee has no ballast resistors on its output and can damage your headphones.


Are there some "non diy" Lundahl Energizers available?

Or to put it differently, can you recommend an Energizer I can use with my speakeramp to get me started? (Like what's the best if those readily available?)


----------



## AudioCats (Jul 31, 2021)

woo wee is good enough for ESP950 level phones but not higher.

iFi-audio makes a fancy transformer box, not sure how good it is.


----------



## chocolates

i'm fairly certain that the parts cost less than the cost of the carbon he's selling, especially at scale - but the parts he's using may not be up to spec with the ones built by other more well-known builders


----------



## AudioCats (Aug 1, 2021)

my rough estimate on the parts cost for a fancy-enough-to-me carbon was: amp section $200, power supply section $200, power transformer $100, volume control/ wiring/connectors $200, case/heatsink/hardware $250. Then add the PCB cost. PCB cost seems to be around $1/square-inch for small batch production. so about $1.1k total.

 I think the amp section is simple enough that somebody ought to offer a point-to-point all-silver-wire premium option. power supply section can still do standard PCB.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Tugbars said:


> Lundahl energizers are better than srd7's(less grainy treble, better detail overall), you should build one, or find someone who can build one for you.
> 
> Energizer + speaker amp setups can't get as detailed as totl direct drive solutions. It's a price efficient solution to drive electrostatics with enough current.
> 
> Woo wee has no ballast resistors on its output and can damage your headphones.



Did you ever tried the iFi Pro iESL energizer with a very good power amplifier? This solution beats a dedicated Stax amp like a Stax SRM-727 II paried with my Stax SR-009S easily.


----------



## zomkung

Found DIY T2 selling on Taobao

https://world.taobao.com/item-amp/560050066834.htm


----------



## buzzlulu

Have fun with that😌
The first photo looks like Kerry's T2 - so perhaps not the one being sold.  If so then right away a reason to stay away.  If this is the case then posting photos of someone else's work and trying to pass it off as yours is never a good idea.
Let's not even talk about the lethal voltages running around inside which can kill you if the unit is not properly assembled


----------



## Tugbars (Aug 1, 2021)

h1f1add1cted said:


> Did you ever tried the iFi Pro iESL energizer with a very good power amplifier? This solution beats a dedicated Stax amp like a Stax SRM-727 II paried with my Stax SR-009S easily.


Yes, because 727 isn't a good amp. (unless modded) It is quite well documented what kind of aberrations transformers introduce to signals if they are used at any amplification stage after the input stage. However, I said many times in these forums that a good amp + energizer combo is better than all Stax amps I've ever heard.



zomkung said:


> Found DIY T2 selling on Taobao
> 
> https://world.taobao.com/item-amp/560050066834.htm


It is not even his T2 build as far as I know. There is a guy in Vietnam, builds T2 for 5400 euros. Nowadays, from what I gathered, he is the guy people go for T2 builds. Not sure how good he is, I just know few people who got their T2's from that guy. Of course they liked their T2's, who doesn't like something they paid 5000+ euros for.


----------



## Menkau-ra (Aug 1, 2021)

Tugbars said:


> Yes, because 727 isn't a good amp. (unless modded) It is quite well documented what kind of aberrations transformers introduce to signals if they are used at any amplification stage after the input stage. However, I said many times in these forums that a good amp + energizer combo is better than all Stax amps I've ever heard.


Really? iFi Pro iESL is better then 717? They cost the same used.


----------



## zomkung

From my perspective:
I used to have the SRD-7 + random class D 100w amp paring with my O2
When the energizer was broken. I purchased the SRM-727A modded.

Now for the sound, from my memory. The energizer combo gives me more dynamic and 3D sound
And 727A gives me more details.


----------



## Tugbars

Menkau-ra said:


> Really? iFi Pro iESL is better then 717? They cost the same used.


you need a speaker amp too. Energizers just convert high current, low voltage signal to high voltage, low current signal.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Tugbars said:


> you need a speaker amp too. Energizers just convert high current, low voltage signal to high voltage, low current signal.


I have an old Yamaha MX-600U. Still sounds good with BW607. Will it be a good match with iFi?


----------



## paradoxper

zomkung said:


> Found DIY T2 selling on Taobao
> 
> https://world.taobao.com/item-amp/560050066834.htm


LOL No. Do not.


----------



## AudioCats

JR taobao price doesn't seem attractive at all. 
They list the BHSE for 25k RMB that is about $4k USD. The ad did not brag about RK50 or RK40 or DACT for volume control so assume it is just the basic blue alps. And no tube was included in the price.

the recent stuff out of China disappoints me, they either push the "cost-down" game too far (generic products) or are trying to over-milk the mid/higher end market.


----------



## zomkung (Aug 1, 2021)

If I would like to save money for the end-game amp for general stats paring (Omega, O2, 009, Sigma) *and especially O2(*Because now I have only O2 and Koss ESP 95X, might get other cans)

Which one is better between KGSSHV Carbon or BHSE? (exclude T2 which is difficult to find)

Edit: found a guy in Singapore building mini T2 DIY https://www.carousell.sg/p/grounded-grid-amplifier-for-stax-kgsshv-carbon-and-mini-t2-1033504824

https://www.carousell.sg/p/grounded-grid-kgsshv-carbon-blue-hawaii-mini-t2-for-stax-1016969750/


----------



## eee1111

zomkung said:


> If I would like to save money for the end-game amp for general stats paring (Omega, O2, 009, Sigma) (exclude T2 which is difficult to find)
> 
> Which one is better between KGSSHV Carbon or BHSE?


It’s all preference 

buy whichever you can get your hands on the cheapest used since you’re looking to save money


----------



## Mach3

zomkung said:


> Found DIY T2 selling on Taobao
> 
> https://world.taobao.com/item-amp/560050066834.htm


Please do a review / impression and let us know how good it is.
I'm not much of a gambler, so I don't want to sink in 7k USD to see if it's any good.



buzzlulu said:


> Have fun with that😌
> The first photo looks like Kerry's T2 - so perhaps not the one being sold.  If so then right away a reason to stay away.  If this is the case then posting photos of someone else's work and trying to pass it off as yours is never a good idea.
> Let's not even talk about the lethal voltages running around inside which can kill you if the unit is not properly assembled


Yes they stole that photo, been confirm it Kerry build.


----------



## Mach3

paradoxper said:


> LOL No. Do not.


Absolutely yes we need someone with money to burn and compare Kerry or any renowned t2 builder to compare to this BEAST...


----------



## AudioCats (Aug 1, 2021)

zomkung said:


> ....
> 
> Edit: found a guy in Singapore building mini T2 DIY https://www.carousell.sg/p/grounded-grid-amplifier-for-stax-kgsshv-carbon-and-mini-t2-1033504824
> 
> https://www.carousell.sg/p/grounded-grid-kgsshv-carbon-blue-hawaii-mini-t2-for-stax-1016969750/



the ad mentioned "build service",
"
[Just an interest check] 
I am considering to offer building services for...
"

the price is probably just labor, not including parts.


Singapore is a very high cost location, I don't think it is a place to do production, except for full automation stuff such as semiconductor chips.


----------



## paradoxper

Mach3 said:


> Absolutely yes we need someone with money to burn and compare Kerry or any renowned t2 builder to compare to this BEAST...


Let the stupid people lose their money.

I'm retired.

LMAO


----------



## AudioCats

I suppose spritzer could get one and post pictures.   

just bill it as "market research".


----------



## Menkau-ra

eee1111 said:


> It’s all preference
> 
> buy whichever you can get your hands on the cheapest used since you’re looking to save money


Do you think that 007 or 009 can compete with Susvara?


----------



## Aurosonic

Tugbars said:


> Try Susvara filter.


I tried the Susvara and HE90 filters and compared to the SR-009 filter.

Susvara filter:

Less bass and much brighter. Vocals sound shouty and highs are near strident at times. I am extremely sensitive to sibilance, so I am just not a fan of this tonality. The SR-007's are the most non-fatiguing headphones I've heard, but the Susvara filter makes them painful to listen to.

HE90 filter:

Somewhere between the Susvara and SR-009 filters. I originally thought the HE90 filter was brighter, but I later determined this not to be the case. Upper mids are more emphasized while there is less weight and body to the lower midrange. This makes vocals sound thinner and tilts pitch upward. Bass is practically the same as SR-009 filter. Listening fatigue began to set in as vocals sounded shouty at times.

My order of preference:

1) SR-009
2) HE90
3) SR-007
4) No filter
5) Susvara

The SR-009 filter is still my favorite by quite a margin. It just adds this palpable body to vocals and instruments. Everything sounds incredibly fleshed out and organic. This is a quality often attributed to planars, and something I did like when I owned the Audeze LCD-2. There are hundreds of more filters to try (unlikely I will try them all), but for now I am absolutely loving the SR-009 filter. I've never enjoyed my system more than I am now.


----------



## nzastro

Hi guys, been enjoying all the info in this thread but am confused re THE last posts regarding "filter". Sorry I don't know what you mean by all the different filters. 
I'm using tablet for streaming Tidal and Qobuz via Singxer SU-6 thru Denafrips Terminator directly into KGSSHV using SR-L700 (Pro) and SR-5 Gold (Std). 
Trying to decide between SR-009 or SR-007.
Thanks! Regards, Tony.


----------



## eee1111

nzastro said:


> Hi guys, been enjoying all the info in this thread but am confused re THE last posts regarding "filter". Sorry I don't know what you mean by all the different filters.
> I'm using tablet for streaming Tidal and Qobuz via Singxer SU-6 thru Denafrips Terminator directly into KGSSHV using SR-L700 (Pro) and SR-5 Gold (Std).
> Trying to decide between SR-009 or SR-007.
> Thanks! Regards, Tony.


They’re talking about EQ. You can add different preset settings through software to change the sound through different players.


Menkau-ra said:


> Do you think that 007 or 009 can compete with Susvara?


Definitely


----------



## zomkung

Comparison of EQ oratory1990


----------



## zomkung

Another post just out recently

A new electrostatics headphone from Audeze

https://www.audeze.com/products/crbn


----------



## Menkau-ra

zomkung said:


> Another post just out recently
> 
> A new electrostatics headphone from Audeze
> 
> https://www.audeze.com/products/crbn


----------



## Kerry

zomkung said:


> Found DIY T2 selling on Taobao
> 
> https://world.taobao.com/item-amp/560050066834.htm





buzzlulu said:


> Have fun with that😌
> The first photo looks like Kerry's T2 - so perhaps not the one being sold.  If so then right away a reason to stay away.  If this is the case then posting photos of someone else's work and trying to pass it off as yours is never a good idea.
> Let's not even talk about the lethal voltages running around inside which can kill you if the unit is not properly assembled



Yup, that’s just pictures of my build.


----------



## Menkau-ra

I jut received my package with SR-009  Testing. I noticed that when 009 are moved on my head the vacuum between my ears and the cup creates that sound of moving membrane. Is that normal?


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Menkau-ra said:


> I jut received my package with SR-009  Testing. I noticed that when 009 are moved on my head the vacuum between my ears and the cup creates that sound of moving membrane. Is that normal?


yep


----------



## Menkau-ra

DuncanDirkDick said:


> yep


are there any mods to fix it? Or you just got used to it?


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

No, you have to get used to it. Or sell


----------



## mammal

Menkau-ra said:


> I jut received my package with SR-009  Testing. I noticed that when 009 are moved on my head the vacuum between my ears and the cup creates that sound of moving membrane. Is that normal?





DuncanDirkDick said:


> No, you have to get used to it. Or sell


Hmmmmmm, interesting. I wish more reviewers would openly describe this behaviour/quirk. Like some amps and their stepped volume knobs, clicking audibly, or dacs relay clicking on bitrate change, not enough reviewers describe "liveability" with this kind of gear


----------



## Menkau-ra

DuncanDirkDick said:


> No, you have to get used to it. Or sell


Are SR-007 the same?


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

mammal said:


> Hmmmmmm, interesting. I wish more reviewers would openly describe this behaviour/quirk. Like some amps and their stepped volume knobs, clicking audibly, or dacs relay clicking on bitrate change, not enough reviewers describe "liveability" with this kind of gear


True, that would be helpful. Sometime you get the feeling they don't even listen to the equipment..



Menkau-ra said:


> Are SR-007 the same?


No, in stock configuration there'll be no stax fart. I wouldn't go without the blutack mod to close the port, though. With the port closed you'll experience it sometimes. Not as often as on 009


----------



## Menkau-ra

DuncanDirkDick said:


> No, in stock configuration there'll be no stax fart. I wouldn't go without the blutack mod to close the port, though. With the port closed you'll experience it sometimes. Not as often as on 009


Stax fart? Why I've never heard about that? None of the reviews ever talk about the fart.



mammal said:


> Hmmmmmm, interesting. I wish more reviewers would openly describe this behaviour/quirk. Like some amps and their stepped volume knobs, clicking audibly, or dacs relay clicking on bitrate change, not enough reviewers describe "liveability" with this kind of gear


Gumby has that clicking relay. Just found out recently, after purchasing.


----------



## dukeskd

It's the stax fart, totally normal and benign.


----------



## Menkau-ra

I am driving 009 with SRM-252S  Now I need a real amp. Is any one selling 717?


----------



## Aurosonic

nzastro said:


> Hi guys, been enjoying all the info in this thread but am confused re THE last posts regarding "filter". Sorry I don't know what you mean by all the different filters.
> I'm using tablet for streaming Tidal and Qobuz via Singxer SU-6 thru Denafrips Terminator directly into KGSSHV using SR-L700 (Pro) and SR-5 Gold (Std).
> Trying to decide between SR-009 or SR-007.
> Thanks! Regards, Tony.





eee1111 said:


> They’re talking about EQ. You can add different preset settings through software to change the sound through different players.
> 
> Definitely


Yep, more specifically convolution filters in Roon.


----------



## nzastro

Thanks, I understand now. These EQ filters are software driven via computer or units like the RME. 
I'm old school so still using separate valve and SS amplification. 
What stand alone EQ unit would you recommend? 
Thought that adding another ADC/DAC in the system would bugger up the sound quality? 
So digital EQ or Analog EQ? 
Or just stick with item matching? 
Thanks for your time explaining to a oldie streaming newbie. 
Cheers! Tony.


----------



## AudioCats

Menkau-ra said:


> Are SR-007 the same?



the original 007? yes.


----------



## AudioCats

Menkau-ra said:


> ... Is any one selling 717?



try putting a "want to buy" ad in the classified.


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> try putting a "want to buy" ad in the classified.


I did already


----------



## number1sixerfan

Menkau-ra said:


> I jut received my package with SR-009  Testing. I noticed that when 009 are moved on my head the vacuum between my ears and the cup creates that sound of moving membrane. Is that normal?



I can't say it's normal, but seems a bit common. I have the same exact thing and it has always been like this, can sense it from time to time. Have never had a real issue with the headphones. It is a slight annoyance though. 



Menkau-ra said:


> Do you think that 007 or 009 can compete with Susvara?



009 definitely can and I can see why some prefer one over the other. For me the 007 is just a bit behind either technically, but when I do put them on they are still really really enjoyable.


----------



## BenF (Aug 3, 2021)

Menkau-ra said:


> I am driving 009 with SRM-252S  Now I need a real amp. Is any one selling 717?


Before you start wasting money on low-end Stax amps, you can juice up your 252S.
1) Use this hybrid tube pre-amp to achieve a very enjoyable sound, very similar to how Blue Hawaii sounds (although of course not as able with the technicalities): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32882901310.html
2) Use this Linear Power Supply (12v with Talema transformers) to get rid of all the power noise:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000004386010.html
You have to either ask the seller to reverse the polarity in the LPS, or use this polarity inverter: https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-5X2-1mm-...apter-Converter-Reverse-polarity/201485015842

Ever since I got these 2 upgrades for my 253S, I stopped thinking about chasing after better amps.


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> Before you start wasting money on low-end Stax amps, you can juice up your 252S.
> 1) Use this hybrid tube pre-amp to achieve a very enjoyable sound, very similar to how Blue Hawaii sounds (although of course not as able with the technicalities): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32882901310.html
> 2) Use this Linear Power Supply (12v with Talema transformers) to get rid of all the power noise:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000004386010.html
> ...


1. I just used pre-amp from my Lyr with upgraded tubes... WOW!!!! This is so sweet.
2. How do you head power noise? I think you've sent me this link before and I still have it saved.

Will 717 give me more power to run 009?


----------



## BenF (Aug 3, 2021)

Menkau-ra said:


> 1. I just used pre-amp from my Lyr with upgraded tubes... WOW!!!! This is so sweet.


009 does benefit from tubes greatly - but only if they aren't too "tube-y". That's what I like about P10 - it does introduce pleasurable tube distortion, but without sounding warm and veiled, as some full tube amps do.



Menkau-ra said:


> 2. How do you head power noise? I think you've sent me this link before and I still have it saved.


LPS eliminates the noise introduced by regular low quality switching power supplies, making the sound cleaner.
Not a huge difference for most people, but a welcome one. Greately depends on the quality of your power, which can vary wildly from home to home or even room to room.



Menkau-ra said:


> Will 717 give me more power to run 009?


Yes, but you don't need it. With P10 as pre-amp, I never go above 1PM on both P10 and 253S (using a 2VRMS DAC, such as Khadas Tone Board).


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> 009 does benefit from tubes greatly - but only if they aren't too "tube-y". That's what I like about P10 - it does introduce pleasurable tube distortion, but without sounding warm and veiled, as some full tube amps do.


Did you change the tube?



BenF said:


> LPS eliminates the noise introduced by regular low quality switching power supplies, making the sound cleaner.
> Not a huge difference for most people, but a welcome one. Greately depends on the quality of your power, which can vary wildly from home to home or even room to room.


If I can hear it I will get it.


BenF said:


> Yes, but you don't need it. With P10 as pre-amp, I never go above 1PM on both P10 and 253S (using a 2VRMS DAC, such as Khadas Tone Board).


What means 2VRMS DAC?

Do you use any other amps for your Stax?


----------



## BenF (Aug 3, 2021)

Menkau-ra said:


> Did you change the tube?


I bought some NOS tube, but never changed the stock one.



Menkau-ra said:


> If I can hear it I will get it.


It's usually not an audible noise, you won't be able to notice it without A/B with and without LPS.
It's cheap enough to just get it and try it - it can only improve the SQ.



Menkau-ra said:


> What means 2VRMS DAC?


It's a DAC that puts out 2 Volt RMS (https://www.raeng.org.uk/publications/other/8-rms)
2VRMS is the standard, but some put out less - FIIO Q5S TC puts out 1.8VRMS, Oppo HA-2 puts out 1VRMS.



Menkau-ra said:


> Do you use any other amps for your Stax?


No, P10+253S gives me exactly what I wanted.
110% happy with it - sounds like Blue Hawaii SE that I auditioned with 009 at HeadAmp.
Timbre is great, and bass response improves significantly (compared to just 253S). Smooths the treble just a little bit too.


----------



## Menkau-ra

I have an offer to get SRM-717 for $950. Is it worth it for that price?


----------



## Aurosonic

IMO that price is too high. I sold a 717 earlier this year for $825. A KGSS at around $1200 is a better buy.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Aurosonic said:


> IMO that price is too high. I sold a 717 earlier this year for $825. A KGSS at around $1200 is a better buy.


it's from Japan, shipping included. Do you have a link for KGSS? Who's build?


----------



## AnakChan

Menkau-ra said:


> Stax fart? Why I've never heard about that? *None of the reviews ever talk about the fart.*


You actually make a good point here.


----------



## dukeskd

AnakChan said:


> You actually make a good point here.


They don't but I think by now it's sort of a given that you will fart while listening to 'stats.


----------



## AnakChan

dukeskd said:


> They don't but I think by now it's sort of a given that you will fart while listening to 'stats.


It's a given but only for those who are Stax savvy.

But for a new audio enthusiast unfamiliar with Stax don't get informed about the Stax fart from reviews. More holistic reviews would be more informative to its readers.


----------



## Aurosonic

Menkau-ra said:


> it's from Japan, shipping included. Do you have a link for KGSS? Who's build?


Would have to bought used. Neither Justin or Birgir make the KGSS anymore.

$950 shipped isn't a bad price for a 717.


----------



## AudioCats (Aug 3, 2021)

the 727 in classified (US voltage 110v, no need for step-down transformer.), is a better deal than that japan 717.


----------



## paradoxper

You may check availability.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...p-for-stax-pro-bias-headphones-like-new.7941/


----------



## AudioCats

that one has RK27 alps blue. 
Headamp usually have DACT or RK50.


----------



## paradoxper (Aug 3, 2021)

AudioCats said:


> that one has RK27 alps blue.
> Headamp usually have DACT or RK50.


Oh, you want to cherry pick your OOP, hard-to-find Kevin Gilmore complement rather than just taking what is available.  

Buy it, send it to a community builder and you have a great amp.

Do not directly support JR Audio.


----------



## AudioCats

and red PCB doesn't look as nice as green PCB.


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> the 727 in classified (US voltage 110v, no need for step-down transformer.), is a better deal than that japan 717.


but what about sound?


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> that one has RK27 alps blue.
> Headamp usually have DACT or RK50.


What’s the difference?


----------



## French Penguin

Menkau-ra said:


> I have an offer to get SRM-717 for $950. Is it worth it for that price?


I got mine, 717, a month ago from Yahoo Japan auctions for I'd say $540 USD if you include tax and split shipping in half between the two items I imported. $450 before the i believe 10% tax and about $82 for shipping with both items.


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 4, 2021)

IF you get a 727, have the "global feedback mod" done (Kevin Gilmore - Birgir "Spritzer")!!
https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/8703-the-srm727-thread/


----------



## KDS315

AnakChan said:


> It's a given but only for those who are Stax savvy.
> 
> But for a new audio enthusiast unfamiliar with Stax don't get informed about the Stax fart from reviews. More holistic reviews would be more informative to its readers.


you could always do the easy to DIY "straw mod" to get rid of that "fart"


----------



## Menkau-ra

I


KDS315 said:


> you could always do the easy to DIY "straw mod" to get rid of that "fart"


Does it change the sound?


----------



## VandyMan

I wear glasses and have never once heard the so-called "fart" from my SR-009s. I've had them for 4-5 years now. I was well aware of the "fart" before I purchased. I'm not sure if any reviews discuss it, but it comes up in this topic and elsewhere fairly often. Is it a big issue for you?


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 4, 2021)

VandyMan said:


> I wear glasses and have never once heard the so-called "fart" from my SR-009s. I've had them for 4-5 years now. I was well aware of the "fart" before I purchased. I'm not sure if any reviews discuss it, but it comes up in this topic and elsewhere fairly often. Is it a big issue for you?


Think about for a second: a fart is caused by a very tight fit - but your wear glasses... got it now why you never had it??


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 4, 2021)

Menkau-ra said:


> I
> 
> Does it change the sound?


Not to my knowledge if the “straw” is very thin (a piece of a spraycan-straw)


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 4, 2021)

AudioCats said:


> and red PCB doesn't look as nice as green PCB.


The red sounds much more aggressive - the green has a much more relaxed sound - for sure, right!?


----------



## VandyMan

KDS315 said:


> Think about for a second: a fart is caused by a very tight fit - but your wear glasses... got it now why you never had it??



Dude, of course I get it. That was the f'ing point of my post.


----------



## KDS315

VandyMan said:


> Dude, of course I get it. That was the f'ing point of my post.


yeah...NOW


----------



## zomkung

Aurosonic said:


> I tried the Susvara and HE90 filters and compared to the SR-009 filter.
> 
> Susvara filter:
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for this.

The SR-009 filter is more fun for sure after listening for 2-3 days.

It's a fun hobby for e-stats, there are hundred of filters awaiting to try.


----------



## VandyMan (Aug 4, 2021)

zomkung said:


> Thank you so much for this.
> 
> The SR-009 filter is more fun for sure after listening for 2-3 days.
> 
> It's a fun hobby for e-stats, there are hundred of filters awaiting to try.



I'm not sure I understand what you guys are talking about. Are you taking convolution filters from AutoEQ for other headphones and using them on the 009? If so, I don't understand what that achieves. The convolution filter is the _correction_ to adjust the headphone to a target curve. It will not make the 009 sound like the other headphone. To do that, you would need to create a convolution filter for the 009 that uses the other headphone's frequency response as the target.


----------



## Aurosonic

VandyMan said:


> I'm not sure I understand what you guys are talking about. Are you taking convolution filters from AutoEQ for other headphones and using them on the 009? If so, I don't understand what that achieves. The convolution filter is the _correction_ to adjust the headphone to a target curve. It will not make the 009 sound like the other headphone. To do that, you would need to create a convolution filter for the 009 that uses the other headphone's frequency response as the target.


We are using convolution filters designed for other headphones with the SR-007. We understand these filters equalize to a target curve, and will not make headphone "A" sound like headphone "B"

In the case of the SR-009 filter, there is a bump below 150 Hz that--in my opinion--works well with the SR-007.


----------



## VandyMan

Aurosonic said:


> We are using convolution filters designed for other headphones with the SR-007. We understand these filters equalize to a target curve, and will not make headphone "A" sound like headphone "B"
> 
> In the case of the SR-009 filter, there is a bump below 150 Hz that--in my opinion--works well with the SR-007.



Got it. Thank you for explaining.


----------



## Aurosonic

zomkung said:


> Thank you so much for this.
> 
> The SR-009 filter is more fun for sure after listening for 2-3 days.
> 
> It's a fun hobby for e-stats, there are hundred of filters awaiting to try.


You're welcome. The SR-009 filter not only sounds more fun, it just sounds more "right" to me. A common critique of electrostats is they sound thin and lack weight to the bass. Equalization can work wonders in this regard. Objectivists would argue against DSP, but I'm a proponent of it.


----------



## VandyMan

On top of the AutoEq convolution filter, I like a tiny bit more bass for my 009s. In Roon, I add a Peak at 25 Hz/1 dB/Q 1.25. Sometimes I set it to 3 dB, depending on my mood.


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> Before you start wasting money on low-end Stax amps, you can juice up your 252S.
> 
> 2) Use this Linear Power Supply (12v with Talema transformers) to get rid of all the power noise:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000004386010.html
> ...


What do you think of Airbow PAC-253 power supply unit?
Is 253S like improved 252S? Trying to find it on yahoo.jp but no luck.


----------



## Aurosonic

VandyMan said:


> On top of the AutoEq convolution filter, I like a tiny bit more bass for my 009s. In Roon, I add a Peak at 25 Hz/1 dB/Q 1.25. Sometimes I set it to 3 dB, depending on my mood.


With the 009 filter my 007's have a totally satisfying amount of bass, and I'm a "moderate" basshead. Electrostats respond very well to EQ. For me it took a fantastic headphone and made it better.


----------



## AudioCats (Aug 4, 2021)

French Penguin said:


> I got mine, 717, a month ago from Yahoo Japan auctions for I'd say $540 USD if you include tax and split shipping in half between the two items I imported. $450 before the i believe 10% tax and about $82 for shipping with both items.



that was a super deal. The next 717 after yours was around $100 more.

And the package consolidation really worked out for you. It was around $80 to ship just a 727 (from buyee to me). 717 and 727 should be the same size and weight,


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> that was a super deal. The next 717 was around $100 more.
> 
> And the package consolidation really worked out for you. It was around $80 to ship my 727 (from buyee to me). 717 and 727 should be the same size and weight,


can't find any 717 on yahoo.jp now.


----------



## AudioCats (Aug 4, 2021)

there is a 727 on yahoo.JP at the moment... 60k JPY (~$570?) "buy-it-now" price.  Looks to be about as beat up as the one I bought, but 9k JPY cheaper.

add $25 for Buyee fees and domestic shipping (seller to Buyee), then $80 international shipping (Buyee to US).

probably ok enough to tide you over till you get your BHSE or T2.

At that kind of price you should have no problem reselling it when you upgrade.


----------



## Menkau-ra

AudioCats said:


> there is a 727 on yahoo.JP at the moment... 60k JPY (~$570?) "buy-it-now" price.  Looks to be about as beat up as the one I bought, but 9k JPY cheaper.
> 
> add $25 for Buyee fees and domestic shipping (seller to Buyee), then $80 international shipping (Buyee to US).
> 
> ...


Yes, I saw that 727. Today I remembered that I have a Rinkya account that I have not used for 11 years. Logged in and it’s still valid 

What’s up with T2? No one recommended T2 to me yet. Is it better than 717?


----------



## dukeskd

Menkau-ra said:


> Yes, I saw that 727. Today I remembered that I have a Rinkya account that I have not used for 11 years. Logged in and it’s still valid
> 
> What’s up with T2? No one recommended T2 to me yet. Is it better than 717?


Lol Menkau, you have a lot to read to catch up!


----------



## AudioCats

Menkau-ra said:


> ... What’s up with T2? No one recommended T2 to me yet. Is it better than 717?



better. highly recommended.


----------



## Menkau-ra

dukeskd said:


> Lol Menkau, you have a lot to read to catch up!


I just need to know what’s the best  BHSE is too much right now. Anything around $1k is welcome.
Also another question. Why some people buy SR-007 of they owned SR-009?
How 009S is different from 009?


----------



## Aurosonic

Menkau-ra said:


> I just need to know what’s the best  BHSE is too much right now. Anything around $1k is welcome.
> Also another question. Why some people buy SR-007 of they owned SR-009?
> How 009S is different from 009?


DIY T2 is the best but near unobtanium. Very few people have heard one let alone owned one. And if the BHSE is out of your budget, don't even give the T2 a thought.


----------



## French Penguin

AudioCats said:


> that was a super deal. The next 717 after yours was around $100 more.
> 
> And the package consolidation really worked out for you. It was around $80 to ship just a 727 (from buyee to me). 717 and 727 should be the same size and weight,


Yea, in total the package was in-between 24 and 25 pounds in weight while also being very large since it had added bubblewrap and the original boxes they were shipped in.


Menkau-ra said:


> can't find any 717 on yahoo.jp now.


Took almost a month till one shown up.

Forgot I was writing a reply....


----------



## Menkau-ra

What is a good price for a used BHSE?


----------



## AnakChan (Aug 5, 2021)

[Mod hat on]
@Menkau-ra, I'd recommend you to do a little self-research to dig up the information you're asking here. It's not that I'm discouraging members from asking questions, but some of the questions being asked here could be answered by just spending a little time using the search.
[/Mod hat off]


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 5, 2021)

If you are in Europe, don't forget high-amp.de the fantastic sounding and very powerful Estat amps of Andreas Rauenbuehler which easily drive SR-009 AND demanding SR-007 and VOCE headphones! He offers hybrid amps (tube/transistor/FET) as well as transistor / FET amps too. I have tested some of his amps and decided for his transistor top model, the SIRIUS V9 amp. With a supply voltage of +/-400 Volt the amplifier can output more then 500 Volt eff (RMS) (=1500Volt Vss from stator to stator), bias current is 15 mA from what I know. Regulated soft starting power supplies (also the HV side!), the hybrid amps also have regulated hum-free heater/filament supply - and a fast acting power shut down function to protect the system and user.

Pricewise it is not even 50% of what the "Stax Mafia" competition asks for! And it is all MADE IN GERMANY quality with TWO YEARS warranty.

I'm just a very happy customer who wants to spread the word...


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> What do you think of Airbow PAC-253 power supply unit?


It's not gonna give you anything that the LPS I linked to won't



Menkau-ra said:


> Is 253S like improved 252S? Trying to find it on yahoo.jp but no luck.


It's the same schematics, built with better parts.
https://ippinkan.jp/shopdetail/000000009880/
https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/Airbo...i-ka-Dedicated-Driver-Amplifier/dp/B075KBB5VQ


----------



## zomkung

Aurosonic said:


> I finally got my chance to compare the SRM-717 with a KGSSHV driving a pair of SR-007 MK1's. These are very initial impressions.
> 
> I recently acquired a pair of MK1's and have been driving them with the SRM-717 over the past week. This combination sounds quite nice, and if I didn't know any better I would be very happy with it. However, my new KGSSHV just walked in the door, and within the first 5 minutes of listening I noticed a huge improvement. In comparison, the bass from the 717 sounds fat, bloated, and muddy with a lot of bloom. The KGSSHV has better control of the lower frequencies, revealing much greater texture and resolution. The 717 makes the bass sound like a note. The KGSSHV trims the fat so to speak, allowing you to hear the actual instrument. Soundstage is also wider displaying greater separation and imaging. Overall sound is wider, more airy, more detailed while further improving the great impact and extension of the bass. Cliche as it may be, it sounds like a veil has been lifted. I now understand why the SR-007's have a reputation for sounding dark--they absolutely do with lesser amplification.
> 
> I noticed all of this almost immediately. I look forward to a proper session where I'm sure I will discover even greater improvements. Considering the SRM-717 is widely regarded as the best SS amp Stax ever made, and it leaves that much on the table, is staggering.



I have a question,

When applying the EQ, do they sound different between those two amps?


----------



## kzs70 (Aug 5, 2021)

KDS315 said:


> If you are in Europe, don't forget high-amp.de the fantastic sounding and very powerful Estat amps of Andreas Rauenbuehler which easily drive SR-009 AND demanding SR-007 and VOCE headphones!


Thanks for the link, this looks very interesting indeed!

I see you have a modded T1 as well, how does it sound compare to that?
And have you had a chance to compare it with a Stax 727II too?
I have a modded 727II and the SR-009 combo and looking for a better amp now...


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 5, 2021)

kzs70 said:


> Thanks for the link, this looks very interesting indeed!
> 
> I see you have a modded T1 as well, how does it sound compare to that?
> And have you had a chance to compare it with a Stax 727II too?
> I have a modded 727II and the SR-009 combo and looking for a better amp now...


Well, the SRM-T1(CCS/ECC99) works especially well for Jazz + Classic + Voices and the “finer stuff”, the SIRIUS has more slam and power for power hungry music like Rock, Metal, R&B etc. - and this is how I use it depending on music I listen to.

My 007 works on the T1 too, but sounds better on SIRIUS, the less power hungry 009 works easily well on both amps.

I did not compare it with the 727, but a friend has (with global feedback mod) and found the Sirius better.

PS. I should mention that I use ROON and the CONVOLVER EQ using the fitting ORATORY1990 equalizing files per each headphone


----------



## kzs70

KDS315 said:


> Well, the SRM-T1(CCS/ECC99) works especially well for Jazz + Classic + Voices and the “finer stuff”


That's actually a good news for me as I shall receive a modded T1 from Dominik (Stritt Audio) soon and I listen mostly Jazz.

I have read the reviews on the High-Amp site and the Alpha Centauri V9 might be a better match with the 009, but it's hard to say without actually hearing them...


----------



## Aurosonic

zomkung said:


> I have a question,
> 
> When applying the EQ, do they sound different between those two amps?


Can't say because I sold the 717 before I started using a convolution filter. Even with the bump in lower frequencies from EQ, bass remains tight and controlled with the KGSSHV. The 717 just did not have the same ability so bass came across as a bit thick and bloated. Adding even more bass through EQ with the 717 would probably not be something I would have enjoyed.


----------



## zomkung

Aurosonic said:


> Can't say because I sold the 717 before I started using a convolution filter. Even with the bump in lower frequencies from EQ, bass remains tight and controlled with the KGSSHV. The 717 just did not have the same ability so bass came across as a bit thick and bloated. Adding even more bass through EQ with the 717 would probably not be something I would have enjoyed.



I know what do you mean by 'so bass came across as a bit thick and bloated' 

It's the same experience with my 727 modded.


----------



## AudioCats

does anybody know what kind of circuit is in a 400s? similar to a srm-1mk2? or something new?


----------



## Deolum

KDS315 said:


> If you are in Europe, don't forget high-amp.de the fantastic sounding and very powerful Estat amps of Andreas Rauenbuehler which easily drive SR-009 AND demanding SR-007 and VOCE headphones! He offers hybrid amps (tube/transistor/FET) as well as transistor / FET amps too. I have tested some of his amps and decided for his transistor top model, the SIRIUS V9 amp. With a supply voltage of +/-400 Volt the amplifier can output more then 500 Volt eff (RMS) (=1500Volt Vss from stator to stator), bias current is 15 mA from what I know. Regulated soft starting power supplies (also the HV side!), the hybrid amps also have regulated hum-free heater/filament supply - and a fast acting power shut down function to protect the system and user.
> 
> Pricewise it is not even 50% of what the "Stax Mafia" competition asks for! And it is all MADE IN GERMANY quality with TWO YEARS warranty.
> 
> I'm just a very happy customer who wants to spread the word...


Isn't the Voce the easiest to drive estat out there?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Deolum said:


> Isn't the Voce the easiest to drive estat out there?


What's the hardest to drive estat on the market?
And what does an amp need to justify his needs?


----------



## Deolum (Aug 6, 2021)

Today i compared SR007 Mk. 1 (SZ), SR009 and SR009s.

Setup was a random CD player -> SRM-700t. The amp should fit the 009 and the 009s better. The 009s was plugged the whole day into the amp while the 009 and the 007 only had 5-10 min "charge time". Most people seem to agree though that they are charged in a matter of seconds.

All of these are top tier technical wise except for bass quantity and extension so i won't really compare that since this isn't really what i'm looking for here and since i never listened to the setup before. Soundstage sounded medium sized in all. However i find soundstage to be created mostly by the setup.

First rank was 009s for me
Second 007 Mk. 1
Third 009

009s sounded thin but engaging, pretty good tuned, very airy and effortless but still hard enough. It really made me listening on and on. I think this one gets a spot in my top 3 headphones i've listened to.

007 Mk. 1 sounded thicker with more natural timbre. It sounds more dynamic than estat. Tuning is very good. It is very different from the 009s. I think they compliment each other very well.

009 sounded off and slightly fatiguing. It's not bad but nothing special in this price range for my taste.

I was surprised by the difference between the 009 and the 009s. I expected them to be very close and around the same level but after a few minutes i was absolutely sure that i prefer the 009s.


----------



## Deolum

ThanatosVI said:


> What's the hardest to drive estat on the market?
> And what does an amp need to justify his needs?


As far as i know the Shangri La Sr. or not? But i don't know about Stax Omega and HE-90.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Deolum said:


> I was surprised by the difference between the 009 and the 009s. I expected them to be very close and around the same level but after a few minutes i was absolutely sure that i prefer the 009s.


That was my experience as well. The 009 sounded thin in comparison to 009s, bass extension wasn't as good. I need to EQ 009 where I could use 009s without. I don't know if 009s is worth the premium though. After EQ I could live with either of them but I'd take 007 over 009 any day. For 009s vs 007 I haven't decided yet.


----------



## AnakChan (Aug 7, 2021)

I'm gonna go by memory here (and most likely I'd need to dig in to my past notes) but I don't know if I would have described the differences between the SR-009 and SR-009S as significantly as I've read here. If I remember correctly, the SR-009S did lean towards a more transparent clarity over the SR-009 rather than an FR difference in the bass.

I do remember though that (at least a few years ago) there were differences dust filter pad used in the SR-009S compared to the SR-009 (search through this thread and you'd probably find a pix from me somewhere) and that dust filter pad contributed to a reasonably significant amount to the aforementioned clarity aspect. The SR-009 had (still has?) a thicker dust filter pad which diffused the clarity somewhat. I eventually managed to find an SR-009S dust filter pad for my SR-009 which brought the two signatures closer.

I don't now if new SR-009 purchases now have the same dust filter pads as its SR-009S sibling, but I'll see if I can dig up that old post and share it here.

Edit: Wrong thread. Found it in the SR-009S thread instead: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sta...-with-impressions.877870/page-9#post-14206637


----------



## zomkung

AnakChan said:


> I'm gonna go by memory here (and most likely I'd need to dig in to my past notes) but I don't know if I would have described the differences between the SR-009 and SR-009S as significantly as I've read here. If I remember correctly, the SR-009S did lean towards a more transparent clarity over the SR-009 rather than an FR difference in the bass.
> 
> I do remember though that (at least a few years ago) there were differences dust filter pad used in the SR-009S compared to the SR-009 (search through this thread and you'd probably find a pix from me somewhere) and that dust filter pad contributed to a reasonably significant amount to the aforementioned clarity aspect. The SR-009 had (still has?) a thicker dust filter pad which diffused the clarity somewhat. I eventually managed to find an SR-009S dust filter pad for my SR-009 which brought the two signatures closer.
> 
> ...



I think the EQ fix them completely.

I EQ the 007-mk1 with 009 filter. The bass is better, the treble is more extended. Details and transparency are more easier to catch up.


----------



## bearFNF

Deolum said:


> Isn't the Voce the easiest to drive estat out there?


In my experience the Voce required higher volume pot setting to achieve the same perceived level, so if the 009 were set at 10 o''clock, the Voce would need to be at 11:30 or 12 to have the same listening volume. This was on both the BHSE and Cavalli LL2SS amps. 007 mkII needed less increase to achieve the same results, IIRC about half as much. I did not use a meter only my ears for this test. So YMMY...


----------



## protoss

zomkung said:


> I EQ the 007-mk1 with 009 filter


You needed to EQ the 007mk1? What the heck. That's blasphemous.

The 007mk1 to me is just perfect as it is. Same with the HE90. I have a terrible feeling someone will say soon, "I EQ the HE90 bro"


----------



## ThanatosVI

protoss said:


> You needed to EQ the 007mk1? What the heck. That's blasphemous.
> 
> The 007mk1 to me is just perfect as it is. Same with the HE90. I have a terrible feeling someone will say soon, "I EQ the HE90 bro"


I EQ the HE90 bro!


----------



## Mach3

I EQ my HE90 using the HE90 filter


----------



## dkdali

New to the forum but have been following your STAX talks for quite some time.
I have found a offer for a used KGSSHV Carbon that I have been looking for to pair with my STAX SR-009 (or a Blue Hawaii).
It is build by Felitsa Audio and as far as I can find online it is a guy from Vietnam selling his amps via ebay.
But I cant any review of their amps or owner experience.
Any of you know the brand or have experience with any of their amps?
Does 2000Euro sound fair for such a amp (a few years old)? A new amp from Mjölnir cost 5100USD + shipping and taxes.


----------



## padam

dkdali said:


> Any of you know the brand or have experience with any of their amps?
> Does 2000Euro sound fair for such a amp (a few years old)? A new amp from Mjölnir cost 5100USD + shipping and taxes.


There is a builder in Denmark, he will make one for you properly...
Well worth the extra cost, you rarely see amps like these on the used market (and they get sold pretty quickly).


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

dkdali said:


> New to the forum but have been following your STAX talks for quite some time.
> I have found a offer for a used KGSSHV Carbon that I have been looking for to pair with my STAX SR-009 (or a Blue Hawaii).
> It is build by Felitsa Audio and as far as I can find online it is a guy from Vietnam selling his amps via ebay.
> But I cant any review of their amps or owner experience.
> ...


He builds quite competent amps. As for pricing, no idea


----------



## dukeskd

padam said:


> There is a builder in Denmark, he will make one for you properly...
> Well worth the extra cost, you rarely see amps like these on the used market (and they get sold pretty quickly).


+1 to this


----------



## dynavit

Here you will find a comment about the Carbon built in Denmark:   https://www.open-end-music.com/foru...ize/9959-neuer-stax-thread/page291#post614386
Seems to be builed nice, but sound is worse than Sirrah from Highamp (costs less than 1000.-€).


----------



## padam

dynavit said:


> Here you will find a comment about the Carbon built in Denmark:   https://www.open-end-music.com/foru...ize/9959-neuer-stax-thread/page291#post614386
> Seems to be builed nice, but sound is worse than Sirrah from Highamp (costs less than 1000.-€).


Don't mix things up, from the pictures it looks like the one that used for the comparison wasn't built by him.
As for the other amp, seems to be the case of you get what you pay for...


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

padam said:


> Don't mix things up, from the pictures it looks like the one that used for the comparison wasn't built by him.
> As for the other amp, seems to be the case of you get what you pay for...


To be fair the build referenced was a DIY build, not the commercial product AFAIK.


----------



## padam

DuncanDirkDick said:


> To be fair the build referenced was a DIY build, not the commercial product AFAIK.


That's good to hear, although I guess the parts or the design haven't changed all that much.
So it is still the case of having way less parts and way less power compared to a (properly-built) Carbon, which I really don't see a lot of people complaining about.
As for the builder of that other amp, he is still flagged for incomplete sales.
So if he has improved in the meantime, why doesn't he take the necessary steps to resolve that?


----------



## DuncanDirkDick (Aug 9, 2021)

padam said:


> That's good to hear, although I guess the parts or the design haven't changed all that much.
> So it is still the case of having way less parts and way less power compared to a (properly-built) Carbon, which I really don't see a lot of people complaining about.
> As for the builder of that other amp, he is still flagged for incomplete sales.
> So if he has improved in the meantime, why doesn't he take the necessary steps to resolve that?


I'm talking about this one: https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/786-the-headcase-stax-thread/?do=findComment&comment=835661

That's the DIY kit version of a 500 EUR MSRP amp not a carbon.

As for that one: https://www.open-end-music.com/foru...ize/9959-neuer-stax-thread/page291#post614386
I don't know who might have built it


----------



## dkdali

padam said:


> There is a builder in Denmark, he will make one for you properly...
> Well worth the extra cost, you rarely see amps like these on the used market (and they get sold pretty quickly).





DuncanDirkDick said:


> He builds quite competent amps. As for pricing, no idea


Thanks guys for the input.
My end goal is definitely to get a Blue Hawaii or some of the higher end amps from a good builder. 
But after just having spend a significant sum on my DAC I cant afford one of those at the moment.
I can afford the Felitsa Audio KGSSHV Carbon now and I am thinking it should be a good upgrade from the SRM-007tII that will make my SR-009 sound nicer while I wait.


----------



## buzzlulu

dkdali said:


> It is build by Felitsa Audio and as far as I can find online it is a guy from Vietnam selling his amps via ebay.



Google is your friend. You may want to do some research - particularly on headcase where there have been some recent postings about this.


----------



## oximoron (Aug 9, 2021)

hello
thank you for reading my post,





i own a stax amp SRM T 1,   and i would like to change the valves, any recomendation, as proper valves to use, i have seen rca, ge,...

these are , GE 6FQ7 / 6CG7

sellers ?

any tricks on.  what to do, and how to do it ? regards 

i made a search about valve replacement and found nothing 

thank you


----------



## martin778 (Aug 10, 2021)

I did a stupid, sold my 4040 system and now I have...nothing but an SRD7SB. Sigh.

Anyone from western EU have a decently priced (~€2k) Stax rig for sale? Can be a 007Mk2.9 for example.


----------



## musicman59

Aurosonic said:


> We are using convolution filters designed for other headphones with the SR-007. We understand these filters equalize to a target curve, and will not make headphone "A" sound like headphone "B"
> 
> In the case of the SR-009 filter, there is a bump below 150 Hz that--in my opinion--works well with the SR-007.


Where can I find the convolution filter for the SR-009?


----------



## Hubert481

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018


----------



## KDS315

Works very well for my 007 + 009 and very easy using the ROON DSP CONVOLVER!


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 10, 2021)

oximoron said:


> hello
> thank you for reading my post,
> 
> 
> ...


IF you want to do that, consider having CCS (constant current source) installed instead of anode resistors, this has  much greater impact as you get much more audible energy. PLus there is the possibility to use ECC99 valves but needs a few modifications. I had both done here in Germany at Stritt-Audio Freiburg and the results are amazing, my SRM-T1 (CCS/ECC99) even drives a SR-007 well now!!


----------



## kzs70

KDS315 said:


> IF you want to do that, consider having CCS (constant current source) installed instead of anode resistors, this has  much greater impact as you get much more audible energy. PLus there is the possibility to use ECC99 valves but needs a few modifications. I had both done here in Germany at Stritt-Audio Freiburg and the results are amazing, my SRM-T1 (CCS/ECC99) even drives a SR-007 well now!!


Hopefully mine arrives tomorrow, I look forward trying it with my 009
Do you use the new JJ gold tubes or perhaps other NOS tubes?


----------



## oximoron

KDS315 said:


> IF you want to do that, consider having CCS (constant current source) installed instead of anode resistors, this has  much greater impact as you get much more audible energy. PLus there is the possibility to use ECC99 valves but needs a few modifications. I had both done here in Germany at Stritt-Audio Freiburg and the results are amazing, my SRM-T1 (CCS/ECC99) even drives a SR-007 well now!!



thank you, i note that for a next future
right now i would love to simply put fresh valves on, and check the difference
i have never done that before
so again, 

GE, or Sylvania, or RCA, or other ?
were the original ones GE ? i think so as per pictures 
where to buy, buy NOS ? or it does not make any difference ?

how to do it, danger, danger , high voltage, but what is exactly the problem, i know about capacitors, but i will only remove the tubes, and put new ones

thank you


----------



## dynavit

If you change tubes, you have to adjust the bias again, because the TRM 1 is not self-biasing. It is not a miracle to do this, but you have to work on an opened amp with high voltages.
I am not a technician and have done it once on a 007t with instructions from the web and it worked, but I have to warn you.


----------



## KDS315

You will still have to open it and while on and under high voltage adjust the balancing potentiometers with new tubes using a voktage meter? Are you ready for DOING THAT?

EVEN A BALANCED SET NEEDS THAT ADJUSTMENT!!


----------



## dynavit

KDS315 said:


> You will still have to open it and while on and under high voltage adjust the balancing potentiometers with new tubes using a voktage meter? Are you ready for DOING THAT?
> 
> EVEN A BALANCED SET NEEDS THAT ADJUSTMENT!!


 Seems we had the same thoughts at the same time!


----------



## oximoron

KDS315 said:


> You will still have to open it and while on and under high voltage adjust the balancing potentiometers with new tubes using a voktage meter? Are you ready for DOING THAT?
> 
> EVEN A BALANCED SET NEEDS THAT ADJUSTMENT!!




i appreciate your warning advice, very much indeed, i am prepared yes, i assume that it is doable once taken certain precautions

(i fix everything on my own, i always get in high esteem others advice, and try to follow all the rules, specially safety, ...i feel anything that you repare by yourself provides you double satisfaction)


----------



## oximoron

dynavit said:


> If you change tubes, you have to adjust the bias again, because the TRM 1 is not self-biasing. It is not a miracle to do this, but you have to work on an opened amp with high voltages.
> I am not a technician and have done it once on a 007t with instructions from the web and it worked, but I have to warn you.



thank you
your example helps and encourages me !


----------



## oximoron

so GE tubes might be the right stuff ?
any link to the process ?
any source for these tubes ?


----------



## dynavit

oximoron said:


> so GE tubes might be the right stuff ?
> any link to the process ?
> any source for these tubes ?


 Try this one, but there are more: https://www.head-fi.org/articles/adjusting-bias-on-stax-tube-amplifiers.17232/


----------



## martin778

Its easy to do albeit a bit tedious as the trimpots are always very sensitive and even blowing against the circuit board will make the readout jump around. I always prefer measuring with the lid closed.
Just make sure not to use a screwdriver with metal grip


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

I've had an SRM-1 Mk2 Pro for about 4 years and it has served me and my L300s well but I recently acquired a pair of Nectar Hives, which I have heard scale quite well.  I know the SRM-1 Mk2 Pro (while the best I could afford when I purchased it for $500) is only just barely a fair-to-midlands amp in the grand scheme of estat amplification.  I would buy a KGSSHV Carbon if I had the money.  If I had a good set of machine tools, I'd build one but I lack a milling machine to manufacture a suitable enclosure.  Thus, I'm looking at buying a used KGSS for a bit under $1k.  From what little I can see, it was, at least at one time, regarded as better than most/all STAX-made energizers/amplifiers.  Is this still the case (or, at least, better than all those that are not many times its price)?


----------



## padam

AthenaZephyrian said:


> I've had an SRM-1 Mk2 Pro for about 4 years and it has served me and my L300s well but I recently acquired a pair of Nectar Hives, which I have heard scale quite well.  I know the SRM-1 Mk2 Pro (while the best I could afford when I purchased it for $500) is only just barely a fair-to-midlands amp in the grand scheme of estat amplification.  I would buy a KGSSHV Carbon if I had the money.  If I had a good set of machine tools, I'd build one but I lack a milling machine to manufacture a suitable enclosure.  Thus, I'm looking at buying a used KGSS for a bit under $1k.  From what little I can see, it was, at least at one time, regarded as better than most/all STAX-made energizers/amplifiers.  Is this still the case (or, at least, better than all those that are not many times its price)?


It's better in terms of the power supply and different parts being used, but it's not necessarily better in terms of sound and it is a little difficult to take a stance without knowing how it interacts with that particular set of headphones.
So oversimplified goes like this: if you want to be close to the warmer, more diffused nature of the Stax amp, get a 717 or a modded 727 (which has CCS unlike the other two). If you prefer it to be more focused and more neutral, get a KGSS.
Old quote:
"The 717 has a more laid back sound (especially in the midrange) than the KGSS. The 717 has a considerably larger soundstage and does a better job of creating the environment of large acoustic recordings. I think that people that listen to a lot of Pop music with typical flat presentation may like the KGSS better. When you listen to the 717 you hear delicate low level details and ambiance that the KGSS seems to mask. One time when I was listening to the KGSS I thought I had my preamp in mono but it wasn’t. I have been extremely happy with the 717/SR-007 combo. Sometimes I can’t seem to leave well enough alone"
Old review:
https://positive-feedback.com/Issue12/staxomega.htm
"I was desperate to hear the Omega IIs with a different amp, especially one that sells for approximately the same price as the 717, to isolate their character. Surprisingly, the incredible extremes, the lack of identifiable sound, the resolution, and the transient response stayed constant. All this I give to the Omega IIs, yet the two amps sound drastically different. The KGSS eliminated most of my midbass complaints. It sounded dramatically blacker and more linear than the 717. Resolution wasn’t better, but the KGSS allowed details to pop in the digital black and fade away quickly. Stereolab’s _ABC Music_ sounded like heaven. Bass guitar wasn’t as diffused as it was with the 717. The presentation was tighter, and the sound closer to what I expect from headphones as opposed to speakers. The Omega IIs with the 717 have an expansive soundstage, in which performers take another step back. The 717’s reproduction of acoustics will make it the choice for many. I’d take the KGSS, but you already know my bias."


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

Well, I missed my chance on the KGSS.  I'll have to keep looking!  Interesting info, though, and I think it's still quite informative in my search for a better amp.  I may have to try one of the two you mentioned.  I do like my large soundstages...


----------



## musicman59

Hubert481 said:


> https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018


Thanks for the link. I use Room but I have no idea how to apply these filters.
If you can PM me some instructions I will really appreciate it….


----------



## nepherte

source: https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/dsp-engine-convolution

*If you have a set of impulse response files, one per sample rate or channel layout:*

Place all of the impulse response files in the same directory
Create a `.zip` file from that directory
Browse to the `.zip` file and select it in Roon
 Enjoy the music
=> basically you download the 44.1khz and 48khz wav files for your headphone, put them in a zip and then select it in Roon.


----------



## KDS315

Nope, that does NOT WORK like this!

You have to zip just the two impulse files (44.1 and 48kHz) PER ONE SINGLE HEADPHONE INTO ONE ZIP-FILE (named according to headphone) and then place ALL those  different files (if you have different headphones) INTO THE SAME DIRECTORY and load ONLY ONE of them into the DSP CONVOLVER OF ROON at a time depending on which headphone you want to listen with!


----------



## martin778

Roon? I just go to DSP, enable Parametric EQ and type over the values.


----------



## nepherte

nepherte said:


> basically you download the 44.1khz and 48khz wav files for your headphone, put them in a zip and then select it in Roon.





KDS315 said:


> Nope, that does NOT WORK like this!
> 
> You have to zip just the two impulse files (44.1 and 48kHz) PER ONE SINGLE HEADPHONE INTO ONE ZIP-FILE (named according to headphone) and then place ALL those  different files (if you have different headphones) INTO THE SAME DIRECTORY and load ONLY ONE of them into the DSP CONVOLVER OF ROON at a time depending on which headphone you want to listen with!


Indeed. I don’t see how that is any different from what I said though


----------



## nepherte

martin778 said:


> Roon? I just go to DSP, enable Parametric EQ and type over the values.


That would work too. But AutoEQ suggests using convolution EQ whenever possible


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 11, 2021)

nepherte said:


> Indeed. I don’t see how that is any different from what I said though


Help me Jesus...you said all files into one zip file (all different files for different headphones) and upload that one - I said one file per headphone type with two impulse files (48/44.1kHz) in it, which makes multiple files to upload. Lord have mercy I'm surrounded by... well you know what I mean


----------



## nepherte (Aug 11, 2021)

KDS315 said:


> Help me Jesus...you said all files into one zip file (*all different files for different headphones*) and upload that one - I said one file per headphone type with two impulse files (48/44.1kHz) in it, which makes multiple files to upload. Lord have mercy I'm surrounded by... well you know what I mean





nepherte said:


> => basically you download the 44.1khz and 48khz *wav files for your headphone,* put them in a zip and then select it in Roon.



not sure whether jesus is gonna help here  Anyways, yes each headphone would get their own zip file.


----------



## zomkung

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ion-speed-do-these-things-really-exist.24953/


----------



## 432789 (Aug 11, 2021)

Tugbars said:


> Lundahl energizers are better than srd7's(less grainy treble, better detail overall), you should build one, or find someone who can build one for you.
> 
> Energizer + speaker amp setups can't get as detailed as totl direct drive solutions. It's a price efficient solution to drive electrostatics with enough current.
> 
> Woo wee has no ballast resistors on its output and can damage your headphones.


Sorry,
I totally Disagree with this, I have never heard grainy treble with my SRD7 pro (non SB).
Treble is infact the best I have ever heard,
My blue Hawaii is gathering dust for the very fact that SRD7 powered with just my topping a30pro and software eq is just the more perfect solution, it is clearly more detailed (especially the higher the volume you go, you can hear blue Hawaii gradually going into clipping distortion) and has more headroom to accomdate all my eq Settings. It must be your amp or something else which is not up to par,
But your comment is the exact opposite of my experience.

and In my opinion all electrostatic headphones could do better with good software eqing but there’s no dedicated electrostatic amp I know of that can offer more than enough headroom without distortion for optimal compensation.

btw the blue Hawaii itself is quite a considerable improvement from all other stax amps, the obtainable tube stax amp are the worse, clipping distortion starts kicking in even without EQ.


----------



## Tugbars (Aug 11, 2021)

I have no experience with Blue Hawaii, I did my comparisons based on my experiences with DIY Carbon and Mjolnir Carbon only. Kevin Gilmore has posts where he dived deep into the details of what kind artifacts transformers add to the sound if used after the input stage. The problems he points out also aligns with my listening experiences. You are free to make your own research.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Did anyone ever use a Mjölnir SRD-7 Energizer with tube speaker amps?

I'm a little worried about the load impedance in this case.
Not that a 145k Ohm load wrecks my output transformer


----------



## 432789 (Aug 11, 2021)

I measured about 900VAC from the output of one channel of the SRD7 pro (non sb) when powered by the small low distortion topping a30pro and I bet an a90 would do even better numbers, I know of no dedicated amp which can reach SRD7s output potential. and you need lots of clean power if your going to be eqing all your headphones properly.

and I use a headphone amp like topping a30pro to power srd7 (XLR connection) because there is no speaker amp yet which can archive these low distortion and noise floor numbers. for a long time people have been using srd7 with speaker amps which just don't have such specs and that's the biggest problem.


----------



## KDS315

thebrunx said:


> I measured about 900VAC from the output of one channel of the SRD7 pro (non sb) when powered by the small low distortion topping a30pro and I bet an a90 would do even better numbers, I know of no dedicated amp which can reach this output. and you need lots of clean power if your going to be eqing all your headphones properly.
> 
> and I use a headphone amp like topping a30pro to power srd7 because there is no speaker amp yet which can archive these low distortion and noise floor numbers. for a long time people have been using srd7 with speaker amps which just don't have such specs and that's the biggest pro


Guess you meant 900Vss (peak-to peak) not AC, which would be the RMS value (root mean square)


----------



## 432789 (Aug 11, 2021)

KDS315 said:


> Guess you meant 900Vss (peak-to peak) not AC, which would be the RMS value (root mean square)


I did the same test with the same input source (100hz) on Blue Hawaii I get about 800VAC at complete max volume, but the difference is that there is no clipping distortion on my srd7 at such high volume


----------



## KDS315

thebrunx said:


> I did the same test with the same input source on Blue Hawaii I get about 800VAC at complete max volume, but the difference is that there is no clipping distortion on my srd7 at these levels


You cannot easily measure this, as you need a very high impedance instrument (>100 Megohm) - did you use such??


----------



## 432789 (Aug 11, 2021)

KDS315 said:


> You cannot easily measure this, as you need a very high impedance instrument (>100 Megohm) - did you use such??


10Mohm is my instrument. These are not serious measurements by any means I just wanted to see how they compare to each other, but maybe this will Side track from the real big problem which is that I hear clipping distortion start to set in on dedicated amps but not on the SRD7 when both are played at high output levels.
And for me, Which is a shame because my headphones sound way better when used with EQ (which requires clean headroom)
Than when used with any dedicated amp without EQ (because of headroom limitations)


----------



## 432789 (Aug 11, 2021)

Tugbars said:


> I have no experience with Blue Hawaii, I did my comparisons based on my experiences with DIY Carbon and Mjolnir Carbon only. Kevin Gilmore has posts where he dived deep into the details of what kind artifacts transformers add to the sound if used after the input stage. The problems he points out also aligns with my listening experiences. You are free to make your own research.


I guess the A30pro has such low noise floor and distortion numbers to start with (about -120db) that even if a few db of artifacts are added they are still way below the threshold of audibility
this is the cleanest electrostatic amp solution I have ever heard especially at high volume.
(The A30pro does however require higher input voltage than standard to reach max power and that’s not so straightforward to archive).

Now if only someone would build this two into one unit as a whole and make it look good.


----------



## paradoxper

DuncanDirkDick said:


> He builds quite competent amps. As for pricing, no idea





dkdali said:


> New to the forum but have been following your STAX talks for quite some time.
> I have found a offer for a used KGSSHV Carbon that I have been looking for to pair with my STAX SR-009 (or a Blue Hawaii).
> It is build by Felitsa Audio and as far as I can find online it is a guy from Vietnam selling his amps via ebay.
> But I cant any review of their amps or owner experience.
> ...



Be careful.

This builder has a questionable track record.
Although he has labor cost as his benefit for competent chassis work and seems to use quality parts, he also has a checkered build history.

He built my friend a SuSy Dynahi and wired it out of phase. He seems sloppy, uncaring and ultimately stimulated by trying to make a buck.

I'd stay away.


----------



## ThanatosVI

paradoxper said:


> Be careful.
> 
> This builder has a questionable track record.
> Although he has labor cost as his benefit for competent chassis work and seems to use quality parts, he also has a checkered build history.
> ...


Do you know about Mjölnir Audio, how is the quality of Birgirs creations?

I'm about to purchase something from him.


----------



## paradoxper

ThanatosVI said:


> Do you know about Mjölnir Audio, how is the quality of Birgirs creations?
> 
> I'm about to purchase something from him.


That is a silly question. He's one of the best.


----------



## ThanatosVI

paradoxper said:


> That is a silly question. He's one of the best.


That's what I was hoping to hear


----------



## VandyMan

thebrunx said:


> I did the same test with the same input source (100hz) on Blue Hawaii I get about 800VAC at complete max volume, but the difference is that there is no clipping distortion on my srd7 at such high volume



I've never heard my HeadAmp built Blue Hawaii clip at max volume (and clipping is ofcourse easy to hear). Perhaps your source has too much gain.


----------



## 432789 (Aug 11, 2021)

VandyMan said:


> I've never heard my HeadAmp built Blue Hawaii clip at max volume (and clipping is ofcourse easy to hear). Perhaps your source has too much gain.


Obviously it won’t clip if you reduce the input.
And if you normally don’t use EQ, (you’re missing out btw) especially to correct some serious frequency dips in headphones, I think you will never experience what I’m talking about.


----------



## timb5881

Any pointers on used Stax amps?  I have an SRM-1 Mik II which has a hum that the technician could not fix, the output transistors can not be found to be replaced.  I also use an SRD-7 transformer both pro and a normal one and the Koss E90 amp.  
I have been looking at other SRM-1Mk II for sale and also an SRM T1.   I have also seen a few other Stax amps as well.  The 006 and 007 series also look interesting.  
I enjoy using the transformers with my Cary Rocket 88 and Golden Tube SE40.   I can do major tube rolling with the Cary, 6L6, 6550, KT88, EL34 output tubes and various 6922/6DJ8 tubes.   I am just interested if a dedicated electrostatic amp would improve things enough to pursue.


----------



## VandyMan

thebrunx said:


> Obviously it won’t clip if you reduce the input.
> And if you normally don’t use EQ, (you’re missing out btw) especially to correct some serious frequency dips in headphones, I think you will never experience what I’m talking about.



I use PEQ, FWIW. I think you must like to listen at much higher volumes than me.


----------



## 432789 (Aug 11, 2021)

VandyMan said:


> I use PEQ, FWIW. I think you must like to listen at much higher volumes than me.


It could also depend on the difference of the headphones sensitivity and the EQ compensation or many other factors, but Yes I listen louder than most. Especially if the recording is quality and enjoyable I will definitely turn it up even if only for one song, and its painfully annoying when I hear the amp giving out and limiting me by starting to sound crappy, it’s almost immediately a deal breaker for me.
And the crappy sound becomes even more apparent when you finally use something which is clean at high volume, when you do an AB comparison you hear even more clearly what you had to put up with.


----------



## protoss

ThanatosVI said:


> how is the quality of Birgirs creations?



He is the best of the best. Highly recommend and a interesting guy to talk to privately. 
He should be building STAX amplifiers for them.


----------



## ThanatosVI

protoss said:


> He is the best of the best. Highly recommend and a interesting guy to talk to privately.
> He should be building STAX amplifiers for them.


Nice paid for my purchase few hours ago and he will send it out in friday.

Preparations for the Audeze CRBN


----------



## makan (Aug 11, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> Nice paid for my purchase few hours ago and he will send it out in friday.
> 
> Preparations for the Audeze CRBN


Like to hear your impressions of the CRBN.  What amp did you get…just curious.


----------



## ThanatosVI

makan said:


> Like to hear your impressions of the CBRN. What amp did you get…just curious.


I started out with the SRD-7 Energizer which will be connected to my Octave V16 and T+A PA2000R. 

Not sure yet if Electrostats are for me, but the Audeze looks promising.
The SRD-7 is a really affordable entry considering I already have amazing speakeramps


----------



## oximoron

martin778 said:


> Its easy to do albeit a bit tedious as the trimpots are always very sensitive and even blowing against the circuit board will make the readout jump around. I always prefer measuring with the lid closed.
> Just make sure not to use a screwdriver with metal grip



hi Martin,
trying to digest all the information that you all have been generously posting

when you mention that you prefer to adjust it with the lid closed, do you mean adjusting the potentiometers through the lid holes?
sorry, it is the only way that i can think of
is that possible ?
if yes, who sells long plastic screwdrivers ?

thank you


----------



## 432789

oximoron said:


> hi Martin,
> trying to digest all the information that you all have been generously posting
> 
> when you mention that you prefer to adjust it with the lid closed, do you mean adjusting the potentiometers through the lid holes?
> ...


If you don’t mind improvising,
You can sharpen a wooden grill skewer stick into a screwdriver


----------



## martin778

How I do it:
1. Remove lid, turn the amplifier on
2. Let it warm up for 30 minutes
3. Make the adjustments
4. Put the lid back on, measure again after 10-15 minutes
5. Readjust


----------



## lsantista

Hi. After auditioning D10 and 700T with 009S, L500m2 and L700m2,  I got a D10+L700 last week at the official Stax dealer (Edifier headquarters, at a 110V city). First night with it I was still at the same city and all was great with the sound. Next day I went to my hometown, which is 220V. After a few hours using it via USB / PC I noticed it was a lot hotter than the day before, and suddenly there was "static" noise coming from the right phone. It is not loud and it is not affected by the position of the volume knob, but will ruin the experience if Im listening at low volume or the song goes quiet for a second. 

I performed quite a few tests during the weekend (plugging in another outlet, straight or with line filter, went to another house, switching USB source to laptop, the USB cable, used it on charge etc) but the static was there, louder as the D10 got hotter. Even turning the unit off won't kill the noise, at least for some good time. Taking the micro USB end either from the D10, the source, or both did make the noise worse (using the P2 analog conection did not affect the static). Whenever I touch the body of the D10 (anywhere but its volume control) the static would go off. I suspected the problem was with the D10's micro USB input. Took it back to Stax  to show them and the noise wasn't there at first, but after some 40 minutes I could hear it again - very low yet audible. One technician there said he could hear it as well, but on the left ear (and the noise would also go off if he touched the D10)! We then found a 220v outlet in the building and also swapped my L700's cable to a test unit and later the L700 fone itself to their test unit and Im convinced I could still hear the static, but those last tests were very brief as at this point I was running out of time (so the D10 never got as hot as it gets in my home) and there was some street and ambient noise so it is hard to say with 100% confidence there was still static with my D10 and another L700. Suspecting the problem was with the D10, not the L700, they swapped my unit to a new one. I came back to my hometown and plugged it in the 220-110V transformer and listened for many hours at 110v without issues, but on the next day the noise was audible again, though a bit lower and more likely to go away (after letting it cool down). At this point I haven't connected it again to 220V.

Did anyone experience such static noise with the D10? Is it a sure thing that this is a problem with the D10's design and not something with the setups used (my PC / laptop, the 220v line, etc) , the two D10 units or the L700 - or even my body, maybe my right ear touching something in the right fone could explain why the Stax technician sweared he was hearing the noise at his left ear??

Thanks


----------



## Hubert481

forget D10 - and buy a good amp

i had similar issue and returned that chinese amp


----------



## lsantista

Good to know Im not the only one, I had looked for similar reports and found none. So you also don't believe this could be an issue with the L700? I mean, why I only the hear the noise on the right phone (and the other guy said he heard at the left phone)?

I will eventually get another amp, and could have gotten the 353x for the same price. However, I didnt think the D10 sounded bad in any way at my normal hearing volumes. Certainly limited, but still better than when I had a HD800 with Meier Corda Symphony amp. So I opted for the D10 as the versatile amp for trips to start with and upgrade when the time comes for a good desktop amp.


----------



## lsantista

Just noticed that when I touch the PC the noise also goes off, completly. Took the USB from the PC: noise goes louder as mentioned as the "chain is open" (except if I touch the USB metalic end - not the plastic part - in which case the noise is gone) and plugged in the laptop. Noise is still loud, so something in the PC interferes with the "noise chain" in a way the laptop doesn't. Im not being precise in the terms as I dont know anything about ground, electricity networks, etc, but Im pretty sure this tells something


----------



## AudioCats

timb5881 said:


> Any pointers on used Stax amps?
> ...



for what phone? 

and  your location?


----------



## oximoron

dynavit said:


> Try this one, but there are more: https://www.head-fi.org/articles/adjusting-bias-on-stax-tube-amplifiers.17232/



thank you


----------



## AudioCats

Got the 727A I bought from yahoo.jp (via Buyee). Upon inspection, I notice the signal cables from the rear panel was routed under the transformer carrier plate and somehow got squashed.  The carrier plate looks ok (not bent).







If you have a 727 can you look at yours and tell me if the routing style (under the carrier plate) is normal? or are the cables supposed to go between the plate and the PCB. (to see this location requires removing the bottom case panel though)

Thanks


----------



## Hubert481

Does it help if all others have the same bug?
i don't think so.


----------



## AudioCats

I am just wondering if this particular amp was repaired at one time and the cable was rerouted then (solder joints look original, but you never know).


----------



## zomkung (Aug 14, 2021)

AudioCats said:


> Got the 727A I bought from yahoo.jp (via Buyee). Upon inspection, I notice the signal cables from the rear panel was routed under the transformer carrier plate and somehow got squashed.  The carrier plate looks ok (not bent).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## musicman59

KDS315 said:


> Nope, that does NOT WORK like this!
> 
> You have to zip just the two impulse files (44.1 and 48kHz) PER ONE SINGLE HEADPHONE INTO ONE ZIP-FILE (named according to headphone) and then place ALL those  different files (if you have different headphones) INTO THE SAME DIRECTORY and load ONLY ONE of them into the DSP CONVOLVER OF ROON at a time depending on which headphone you want to listen with!


Thanks!
I use Mac and this is what I did last night.
1) downloaded both files for a given headphone.
2) selected both files and right click to select compress. This created a zip folder with both files compressed inside.
3) Renamed the zip file with the name of the headphones and moved it to filters directory in the Mac.
4) Created a new convoluted filter in Roon and select the corresponding zip folder.
5) Save the new filter in Roon with the name of the headphones.

I did this for my Utopia, SR009, Susvara and Edition 15.

Last night I tried the Utopia and they sound fantastic using the filter. Better bass, better definition and clarity.

I also tried the one for the Edition 15 and I did not like this one. It took out too much mid bass and bass making them sound a little to bright for me. They lost a lot of body from the sound.

To night is the SR009 and Susvara turn.


----------



## KDS315

You meant you saved a PROFILE per each headphone (as you cannot save a Filter in the DSP menu, only upload one).

Happy to hear this works well for you!


----------



## AudioCats

zomkung said:


>



thanks! so the cable routing in mine was done wrong. 

Now I have a 727, I can finally do the select-able feedback mod on the circuit cards. with either a switch or a jumper plug. 
I will post put mod related stuff in the DIY section.


----------



## zomkung

AudioCats said:


> thanks! so the cable routing in mine was done wrong.
> 
> Now I have a 727, I can finally do the select-able feedback mod on the circuit cards. with either a switch or a jumper plug.
> I will post put mod related stuff in the DIY section.



If you don't mind, can you make a review about comparing the modded 727 with carbon?


----------



## AudioCats

I don't have a carbon. I have an old style (fat pizza box enclosure) headamp KGSS, however it is being modded, after the mod it will not be representative of a stock kgss any more....


----------



## AudioCats (Aug 14, 2021)

my first Stax purchase experience from yahoo.JP auctions, via Buyee:

7-23: saw the 727 on yahoo.JP, placed "sniper bid" (Buyee will place the bid 5 minutes before the auction ends)
7-25: won auction, final bid 69000 jpy. Buyee fee 1000 jpy. Buyee took $655 out of my paypal right away. (actual conversion rate 106.8:1, while the market rate was a little over 110:1)
8-1:   Buyee message, "your package has arrived at our warehouse". I was still waiting for the result of another auction so I did not tell them to send it to me right away.
8-3:   completed shipping steps, total shipping $88 (~$10 domestic, rest international). Buyee took $$ out of my paypal.
8-4:   Buyee message, "package has been shipped"
8-9:   Package arrived. giant box, extremely well-packaged. Buyee must have repacked it for the overseas shipment. Amp was wrapped in blue bubble sheet (this is probably the original seller's packaging), then a layer of clear bubble wrap, and taped well. The "727A mummy" was put in a large thick-wall box, with liquid-foam bricks above and below. this large box was then put into a huge outer box, with clear bubble wrap in between the boxes. Lots of nice packing material, well worth the $80 shipping price.
Which makes me suspect Buyee is not really an internet company. It is a company that makes $$ mainly by selling packing material (liquid-foam, ultra sturdy cardboard boxes, etc).

Amp condition agrees with auction photos; powers up and sounds fine.

total time, auction end to package arrival = 2 weeks; total $$ 655+88= $743, not bad for a 727A.


----------



## arjuna93

Menkau-ra said:


> OK, I am purchasing 009 then



Have you considered  ESLabs ES–1 Alpha?


----------



## arjuna93

AudioCats said:


> my first Stax purchase experience, from yahoo.JP via Buyee:
> 
> 7-23: saw the 727 on yahoo.JP, placed "sniper bid" (Buyee will place the bid 5 minutes before the auction ends)
> 7-25: won auction, final bid 69000 jpy. Buyee fee 1000 jpy, Buyee took $655 out of my paypal right away.
> ...



I can confirm that Buyee is very reliable. And Yahoo JP sometimes have great deads, but make sure to check also Mercari and Rakuma (available with Buyee).

On Yahoo JP the best grabs are "junk" items with unconfirmed operation (not with listed problems) – usually it means that a seller is lazy to check operation or doesn't have needed environment. Of course, there is a risk of an item actually being junk, but so far I did not encounter such case personally.

For Stax, check also Airbow, it shows up once in few months. Both their amps and headphones are level above original Stax models. (However only few models had been modified by Airbow.)


----------



## arjuna93

thebrunx said:


> I personally would get a SRD7 pro ( no SB version, those are crap). I have gone through a bunch of STAX amps and they all seem to have a problem delivering enough power especially if you want to rightly EQ your headphones. Or drive a 007.
> For a long time SRD7 pro were held back by the dedicated amplifiers they were hooked to. It’s hard enough to find a speaker amp combination which doesn’t hiss (black background noise).
> But the headphone amps of today can deliver more than enough power to drive SRD7 box if you create a 4 pin balanced jack with the 4 colored input wires coming out of SRD7 pro, and connect it to something like a topping a30 pro which delivers 6watts into a 16ohm load. You will have total transparency with more power (more clean rail to rail voltage) than all stax amps including blue Hawaii. It’s a no brainer.



Do you know if SRD-7mk2 is inferior to Pro-only, identical or better?


----------



## 432789

arjuna93 said:


> Do you know if SRD-7mk2 is inferior to Pro-only, identical or better?


As long as it’s not SB, you’re good.


----------



## Menkau-ra

arjuna93 said:


> Have you considered  ESLabs ES–1 Alpha?


Never heard about. 
I already have 009 now.


----------



## arjuna93

Menkau-ra said:


> Never heard about.
> I already have 009 now.



Cool, how is it?


----------



## Menkau-ra

arjuna93 said:


> Cool, how is it?


I am pre-amping SRM-252S with Lyr using Philips Heerlen tubes. It sounds like magic! I don’t even know if I need a better stax amp now. I probably will buy 717 or so, but even now I am very happy with 009. 
Last week I was using RCA tubes and 009 did not sound good at all, I wanted to sell 009 asap. But with Philips Heerlen tubes it’s a magic.


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> I am pre-amping SRM-252S with Lyr using Philips Heerlen tubes. It sounds like magic! *I don’t even know if I need a better stax amp now*. I probably will buy 717 or so, but even now I am very happy with 009.
> Last week I was using RCA tubes and 009 did not sound good at all, I wanted to sell 009 asap. But with Philips Heerlen tubes it’s a magic.


You don't. Enjoy the magic!


----------



## graben

So what is everyone's opinion on the Blue Tac mod for the L700s? It is needed or useless?


----------



## arjuna93

Menkau-ra said:


> I am pre-amping SRM-252S with Lyr using Philips Heerlen tubes. It sounds like magic! I don’t even know if I need a better stax amp now. I probably will buy 717 or so, but even now I am very happy with 009.
> Last week I was using RCA tubes and 009 did not sound good at all, I wanted to sell 009 asap. But with Philips Heerlen tubes it’s a magic.



Wouldn't imagine tubes' brand can make that much difference.


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 15, 2021)

If you wanted to ditch the SR-009 and with different tubes now all of a sudden it is soooo great - then there is “something” SERIOUSLY wrong!!


----------



## arjuna93

KDS315 said:


> If you wanted to ditch the SR-009 and with different tubes now all of a sudden it is soooo great - then there is “something” SERIOUSLY wrong!!



That too in the pre-amp.


----------



## lsantista

also interested to hear more on this as I will soon choose to invest on a higher end amp for the L700 (plans to add a 007 or 9 later this year) or a tube preamp + not so hi-end amp. I was more inclined to just get the amp, wondering that preamps would change less the character of the omegas, and I have a solid state dac/HP amp that can be used as pre. Is the Lyr really a single tube?


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 15, 2021)

How about using a SRM-T1 with CCS mod and tube change (to ECC99) drives 009 and 007 quite well and has "tube sound"!
(works also with the SRM-006t and 007t btw.)


----------



## tumpux

Nothing is seriously wrong. 
We all have different bias and expectations.


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> You don't. Enjoy the magic!


thank you for your advice for tube pre-amping.


----------



## Menkau-ra

graben said:


> So what is everyone's opinion on the Blue Tac mod for the L700s? It is needed or useless?


Get a Schiit Loki mini+. That's what I use.


----------



## Menkau-ra

arjuna93 said:


> Wouldn't imagine tubes' brand can make that much difference.


Not all tubes are the same and not all tubes sound the same on different amps. Some tubes sound almost like solidstate. Someone recommended those particular tubes for my Schiit Lyr. They were $250 a pair, worth every penny.


----------



## Menkau-ra

KDS315 said:


> How about using a SRM-T1 with CCS mod and tube change (to ECC99) drives 009 and 007 quite well and has "tube sound"!
> (works also with the SRM-006t and 007t btw.)


I don't know much about changing tubes in Stax amps, I would think that they have a very limited choice of tubes. I prefer to have 252S or 717 and pre-amp them with tubes. Your choices would be unlimited.


----------



## Menkau-ra

lsantista said:


> also interested to hear more on this as I will soon choose to invest on a higher end amp for the L700 (plans to add a 007 or 9 later this year) or a tube preamp + not so hi-end amp. I was more inclined to just get the amp, wondering that preamps would change less the character of the omegas, and I have a solid state dac/HP amp that can be used as pre. Is the Lyr really a single tube?


Lyr3 is a single tube. I have old Lyr1 with 2 tubes. I've read that new Lyr is not as "tubby" as Lyr1.
Look for a few pages back and you'll see a link for an affordable tube pre-amp from Aliexpress.


----------



## nzastro

Hi! Graben, 
I've tried the blue tack mod and it bought out more bass but with my system it overpowered the mid frequencies and lost detail. So the blutac was removed and in my opinion the L700 sounds better without the blutac. 

The L700 bass is already excellent with a good amp. 

But it's an easy experiment as if done right doesn't do any damage to the headphones. Does bring out more bass and you also get the Stax fart! 

A good glass of single malt and enjoy the music! 

Cheers, Tony.


----------



## Hubert481

PEQ ist better than blue tack


----------



## tumpux

I guess a T2 will be better than all those mods.


----------



## graben

Hubert481 said:


> PEQ ist better than blue tack


Sorry what is PEQ? Do you have a link? I googled but only found electronics.


----------



## nzastro

A T2 would be great to audition but living in New Zealand is not the place for auditioning any Stax products. 

Probably no T2 in New Zealand. 

So far quite happy with my self built KGSSHV non carbon version thank you Birgir! 
Need another single malt to try! Cheers! Tony.


----------



## KDS315

graben said:


> Sorry what is PEQ? Do you have a link? I googled but only found electronics.


Parametric equalizer


----------



## KDS315

tumpux said:


> I guess a T2 will be better than all those mods.


as a T2 is rather Unobtainium, this is a rather limited proposal


----------



## buzzlulu

KDS315 said:


> as a T2 is rather Unobtainium, this is a rather limited proposal


seek and ye shall find - they are available for commissioned build.
the wait is long.......but worth it


----------



## arjuna93

nzastro said:


> A T2 would be great to audition but living in New Zealand is not the place for auditioning any Stax products.
> 
> Probably no T2 in New Zealand.
> 
> ...



I have seen original Omega and T2 sold on Yahoo Japan earlier this year, I think. You can order from there via Buyee or another service of your choice, they ship globally. But T2 gonna cost a fortune, and its shipping will cost another.


----------



## martin778

I've heard the SRM-T2 was to avoid - heat and reliability issues. Is that true?


----------



## DaddyWhale

martin778 said:


> I've heard the SRM-T2 was to avoid - heat and reliability issues. Is that true?


I may be wrong about this (i wish i could afford a T2!). The T2s that good builders are building these days overcome the problems you've note.


----------



## AnakChan

So just to clarify, there's is the original Stax SRM-T2, and there's the community DIY T2.


----------



## paradoxper

arjuna93 said:


> I have seen original Omega and T2 sold on Yahoo Japan earlier this year, I think. You can order from there via Buyee or another service of your choice, they ship globally. But T2 gonna cost a fortune, and its shipping will cost another.


You don't buy the STAX T2. You build the DIY T2.


----------



## arjuna93

paradoxper said:


> You don't buy the STAX T2. You build the DIY T2.



Wish we could build DYI Omegas too…


----------



## paradoxper

arjuna93 said:


> Wish we could build DYI Omegas too…


Go read the DIY thread here and there. Chinsettawong and n3rdling are excellent examples of the masterclass.


----------



## Klankliefhebber

Hi all, I hope this is the right place to post this (otherwise should I post a new thread?).

I recently bought my first STAX set: SRS-2170, used. I'm not 100% sure whether this was like it from the start or whether it started later but after a few days of owning the set I noticed that it had a rather substantial channel imbalance (have to adjust the balance to L63/R100 to be about even sounding). Also, after adjusting for the imbalance the weaker driver (right side) clearly distorts at times, especially when it has to produce some kind of bass. 

Now, I've been reading a lot about this, or at least trying to, these threads are thousands of posts long... But I'm worried that it might be dust on the driver. The thing is, the distortion is more of a "frpppfff" kind of sound (not quite like a STAX fart, but closer to that than to a sharp squeal), not a "squeal" and it certainly isn't constant. At lower volumes, you wouldn't notice anything wrong with the headset 95% of the time (until it hits a bass section) and even at higher volumes it doesn't present when there's no bass. Does this sound like the dreaded dust-got-past-the-dust covers or is it something else, like static or dust somewhere else (which might be easier to fix)? 

I'm in South-Africa so any repair will have to be DIY...   

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated. 

Regards,
Klankliefhebber


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 17, 2021)

It could rather be that the right driver has separated from the plate it is usually glued to. Hence an acoustic bypass is made, making it less loud.

Not too complicated to fix, but a labour of love as you have to take it apart, clean it up and glue it back on.

A friend of mine did this and documented the steps (use google to translate from German) - this is what I followed:

http://blog.prof-x.de/2017/10/21/frischzellenkur-stax-lambda-signature-refurbish-projekt/


----------



## Klankliefhebber (Aug 17, 2021)

KDS315 said:


> It could rather be that the right driver has separated from the plate it is usually glued to. Hence an acoustic bypass is made, making it less loud.
> 
> Not too complicated to fix, but a labour of love as you have to take it apart, clean it up and glue it back on.
> 
> ...


Hi there, thank you very much for the advice.

following your advice I removed the driver-housing from the headset and baseplate, and also opened the housing to inspect the driver itself (didn't open the driver itself), but I found that unlike in the example in the blog, it appears as if the SR-207 driver-housings aren't glued to the baseplate, but screwed in. In fact, everything I could was screwed in, even the different plates of the outside driver housing itself.

I unscrewed and removed everything as far as I dared, but did not find any kind of obvious problem. I also inspected the driver-dust covers, and tried to look through the dust-covers into the driver, and couldn't see any kind of blemish, hole, or arc damage.

I fit everything back together and at least I didn't make anything worse (I don't have any experience with these kinds of things), the unit is still (not) working in exactly the same way as it did before.


----------



## KDS315

Well, then that right driver is defective....sorry


----------



## bearFNF

Klankliefhebber said:


> Hi all, I hope this is the right place to post this (otherwise should I post a new thread?).
> 
> I recently bought my first STAX set: SRS-2170, used. I'm not 100% sure whether this was like it from the start or whether it started later but after a few days of owning the set I noticed that it had a rather substantial channel imbalance (have to adjust the balance to L63/R100 to be about even sounding). Also, after adjusting for the imbalance the weaker driver (right side) clearly distorts at times, especially when it has to produce some kind of bass.
> 
> ...


 Little late to reply, but did you verify that it is the earspeakers that are the issue and not the amp or source? I would do that before tearing anything apart (further). Do you have access to another E-stat amp or energizer to try, or have you tried just reversing the RCA inputs to see if the imbalance stays the same or follows the swap?

And @KDS315, I would not jump to the conclusion that the driver is defective just yet...


----------



## paradoxper

A nice KGSSHV Mini posted in the Classifieds.

Don't blink.


----------



## Menkau-ra

paradoxper said:


> A nice KGSSHV Mini posted in the Classifieds.
> 
> Don't blink.


The seller has 0 feedback. 
do you know who built it?


----------



## paradoxper

Menkau-ra said:


> The seller has 0 feedback.
> do you know who built it?


He has sold a Carbon of JR Audio.
I surmise this is JR Audio as well.

The layout denotes 0x01a of July 21 which conveniently correlates to a Head-Case user from '18. 

So the origins are likely opaque.


----------



## Klankliefhebber

bearFNF said:


> Little late to reply, but did you verify that it is the earspeakers that are the issue and not the amp or source? I would do that before tearing anything apart (further). Do you have access to another E-stat amp or energizer to try, or have you tried just reversing the RCA inputs to see if the imbalance stays the same or follows the swap?
> 
> And @KDS315, I would not jump to the conclusion that the driver is defective just yet...



Hi, thanks for the reply.

Electrostats are quite rare in these parts, so I haven't been able to a/b die headset/energiser with another working set. I have made plans to do so in 'n few days however, then I'll know for sure which one it is. 

I have tested the source, cables, and everything else. The problem must lie in either the energizer or in the headset.

Could this possibly be caused by a faulty transistor or something on the energizer?


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 18, 2021)

The following is a good idea, just had assumed that done...

Have you crossed the RCA cable (right to left, left to right) on your amp ONLY to see if the problem moves to left channel ? If it does then the amp has a problem. If not then the headphones have an issue.


----------



## AudioCats

Try swapping L/R at the amp output. Open the amp and swap the wires. I think stax color code is (according to the 007t schematic)
yellow=L+
Red=R+
Green=L-
White = R-

swap L+ to R+,  and L- to R-, either at the 5-pin socket or the board (probably easier at the PCB, it might even have marking to show the color wire so it is easier to swap back after the experiment)

 If the weak/strong channels flips then the problem is the amp/source, if it stays the same then it is the phone.


----------



## KDS315

Crossing the RCA CABLES does the same ...  But it is too easy and lacks the fun of soldering on the phones :LOL:


----------



## AudioCats

if the imbalance flips after swapping RCA L/R, then the source is causing the problem. But it doesn't tell if there is something going on in the amp (say, excessive flux residue on the board or at the socket, causing some kind of (high resistance) partial short (if humidity is high) and causing some kind of overload ==> distortion).

try the RCA first to see if the source is bad. then do the amp output L/R swap and see if the amp has problem.


----------



## Klankliefhebber (Aug 19, 2021)

Thanks for the further advice, I've started tinkering a bit further. At the moment I don't have any soldering equipment or anything which which I can test the current/resistance on the circuitboard, but I did open it to check for anything obvious, and I did find one thing: 



I noticed that the screws/settings were out of alignment. It's not quite visible on the foto but there is an indicator on each of the screw-heads. I also noted that the one of the right channel was set "lower" than the one on the left. I adjusted it (the photo was taken after I made the adjustment).

Having set everything up again, I can hear that the channel imbalance is much improved, but perhaps not quite gone. But now I'm not sure whether this had anything to do with the adjustment on the board, of whether it is because I left the headphones and amp disconnected and in a box for a few days (as that whole static-build-up theses would suggest). 

Anyone know whether those things I adjusted are actually settings of some sort, of they just screws that hold down that particular component?


----------



## capetownwatches (Aug 19, 2021)

Before you go bedondered pulling things apart, wait until you can test with another earspeaker and/or energizer.
That is the easiest way to determine where the problem lies.
Just my R0.02...

My guess is definitely the earspeaker, based on my experience.
What to do about it if so is another discussion.


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 19, 2021)

Omg don’t do stuff if you don’t know what you are actually doing!!

These “screws” are potentiometers and those are used to balance some electronic circuits. Could be that they needed adjustments (doubt it though) - but since you played with them I would advice to have them PROFESSIONALLY re-adjusted correctly!! Which needs experience and some metering equipment.

I’m out now here....

PS: STAX amps use high voltages inside even after switching off and disconnecting power the charged high voltage capacitors hold enough charge to be deadly dangerous if touched!!!


----------



## Klankliefhebber

KDS315 said:


> Omg don’t do stuff if you don’t know what you are actually doing!!
> 
> These “screws” are potentiometers and those are used to balance some electronic circuits. Could be that they needed adjustments (doubt it though) - but since you played with them I would advice to have them PROFESSIONALLY re-adjusted correctly!! Which needs experience and some metering equipment.
> 
> I’m out now here....


Ha, I suppose you're (KDS315, Capetownwatches) right. I should just be patient. 

I'm going to stop messing with stuff now and just wait until I can do an A/B test and then either replace or have professionally repaired. 

Thanks for the help/advice anyway.


----------



## kevin gilmore

those are the balance pots and if you turn them too far you will blow up both the amp and the headphones.

you are going to need a voltmeter to reset those pots. stop now until you get the correct tools.


----------



## Klankliefhebber

kevin gilmore said:


> those are the balance pots and if you turn them too far you will blow up both the amp and the headphones.
> 
> you are going to need a voltmeter to reset those pots. stop now until you get the correct tools.


Yeah, I did some post-facto research and realized that. Seeing as the headphones still work without any noticeable issue I don't think I changed the DC-bias too much, but I've arranged for an engineer with a good multimeter to check everything out so that we can make sure the bias is correct. Luckily I have the working (left) channel as a reference point for all the values. 

One interesting thing though, and I'm not sure what this indicates, but I've noticed that the balance issue does get worse as the amp, or possibly the headphone "warms-up". Each time I have the set switched off and plugged out for a day or so, the balance issue is much improved when I switch them on (85-90/100 to sound level), and then it starts to get progressively worse the longer the set is powered on (not sure if it has to be actively playing something or just be powered) eventually ending back at 63/100 after about 10 minutes.


----------



## KDS315

That's called "drifting" and the reason why it is important to set the balance pots correctly..


----------



## capetownwatches (Aug 19, 2021)

Klankliefhebber said:


> One interesting thing though, and I'm not sure what this indicates, but I've noticed that the balance issue does get worse as the amp, or possibly the headphone "warms-up". Each time I have the set switched off and plugged out for a day or so, the balance issue is much improved when I switch them on (85-90/100 to sound level), and then it starts to get progressively worse the longer the set is powered on (not sure if it has to be actively playing something or just be powered) eventually ending back at 63/100 after about 10 minutes.


Sounds more and more like I may have to revise my initial assessment to the energizer being the source of your issue rather than the earspeakers.
As the amp plays longer, it would seem as if the current output to one channel is decreasing slowly.

It may be time to call in the big guns and enlist the help of a professional, although just where such a person may be found locally I do not know.
That said I'm sure there must be a few okes on AVF who are definitely qualified. Perhaps reach out there or contact the local Stax agents (The Listening Room).
Rodney or Victor may be able to recommend a good technician.


----------



## kevin gilmore (Aug 20, 2021)

every once in a while i get something in my inbox thats so over the top that its a candidate for the darwin awards.
This is such an item, a srm313 modified with stillpoints srs paper, tuning dots, aluminum foil, hemp rope and duct tape.


----------



## capetownwatches (Aug 20, 2021)

Why? Just why..?

I find that if I orientate my 353X towards Jerusalem it _definitely_ sounds better...


----------



## dukeskd

Wow, just wow!


----------



## dukeskd

I am sure the hemp alleviates some of the treble harshness.


----------



## VandyMan

dukeskd said:


> I am sure the hemp alleviates some of the treble harshness.


Only if you smoke it.


----------



## Aurosonic

Oh that amp will be going up in smoke, alright.


----------



## Sebbai

Hey guys, thinking about stepping into the Stax game I have these deals to choose between ATM, what do you recommend?

1100$ Stax L300 + Stax 717
3300$ STAX SR-009 + SRM-727II
1100$ SR-507 + srm-727ll
1600$ STAX SR-L700 + SRM-006tS
2100$ Stax Sr- 007 MK II + SRM 353-x
550$ stax-sr-l300 + stax-srm-252s

The ones listed in my signature are borrowed from a friend,


----------



## arjuna93

Sebbai said:


> Hey guys, thinking about stepping into the Stax game I have these deals to choose between ATM, what do you recommend?
> 
> 1100$ Stax L300 + Stax 717
> 3300$ STAX SR-009 + SRM-727II
> ...



If the budget is not a constraint, I think 009 will be either better or at least no worse than any other option on the list. But perhaps a better idea is to try first before committing.


----------



## AudioCats

kevin gilmore said:


> every once in a while i get something in my inbox thats so over the top that its a candidate for the darwin awards.
> This is such an item, a srm313 modified with stillpoints srs paper, tuning dots, aluminum foil, hemp rope and duct tape.



It looks to be some kind of practical joke, probably a subtle way to prime our mind for the return of the venerable Patrick82. 

Whoever did the mods used all the "right" materials but applied them to exactly the wrong spots.

start with aluminum foil tape: instead of applying the foil to electrolytic caps which already have a thick aluminum housing, he could have wrapped the foil around the power transformer to form a Faraday-cage to block the magnetic leakage. 

ERS paper: the proper way to use it: wrap it around all the transistors to form a tiny ERS tube and obtain the much desired "quantum-tunnel" effect, this is the most effective way of using such precious material; then wrap all the resistors with ERS to turn them into some sort of mini Bybee-bullets. Just imagine, a 313 full of these thing, it will be quite a sight. 

Hemp: for vibration dampening and suspension purpose. All electrolytics caps should be tightly wrapped with hemp strings; then add at least 2 layers of ducktape. This will reduce the undesirable "microphonics" effect. Yes capacitors can produce and pick up vibrations. 
In the ancient days when magnetic levitation/suspension devices were not yet available, hemp ropes were used for, er, hanging? In the case of 313, the PCB could be suspended with hemp strings, though this is not very easy to implement. 

tuning dots: should have been applied on the back of the volume pot and the front of volume knob.

by the way, is there any company making paper-oil signal caps with high purity CBD oil? or emu oil? 


heheheheheheheh.


I miss Patrick82. 


​


----------



## AudioCats

capetownwatches said:


> Why? Just why..?
> 
> I find that if I orientate my 353X towards Jerusalem it _definitely_ sounds better...



yeah, this probably have something to do with the earth magnetic flux field. Is the effect more obvious around mid-night , (when the disturbance caused by the solar radiation is at the lowest level) ?

Since the earth magnetic field varies at different locations, the exact direction for the proper positioning of the amp will be geographically dependent. At my location, the best results seems to be obtained with the tubes in a 007t pointing toward Timbuktu. 

(Somebody should write an APP to automate this process. Get the location info from the smartphone's GPS and calculate the proper direction for the amp. The user simply select the amp model from the APP's drop-down list, place the phone on top of the amp and rotate the amp until the # on the screen reaches maximum). 

heheheheheheh


----------



## BenF

Sebbai said:


> Hey guys, thinking about stepping into the Stax game I have these deals to choose between ATM, what do you recommend?
> 
> 1100$ Stax L300 + Stax 717
> 3300$ STAX SR-009 + SRM-727II
> ...


stax-sr-l300 + stax-srm-252s will blow your mind with transparency, soundstage and natural timbre.
The bass is weak, but you can buy L500 pads to turn L300 into L500 for a better bass response (transparency and soundstage will be somewhat sacrificed).


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 22, 2021)

Sebbai said:


> Hey guys, thinking about stepping into the Stax game I have these deals to choose between ATM, what do you recommend?
> 
> 1100$ Stax L300 + Stax 717
> 3300$ STAX SR-009 + SRM-727II
> ...


I’d say go for a mid size system, which will give you over 80% (some would even say 95%) of a super expensive STAX system: *1600$ STAX SR-L700 + SRM-006tS *(that amp is a hybrid amp with a very pleasant tube sound)

Plus a good streamer and DAC (if you don’t want to spend that much get the current BLUESOUND NODE, as it has all for just $549 list price)


----------



## Sebbai

KDS315 said:


> I’d say go for a mid size system, which will give you over 80% (some would even say 95%) of a super expensive STAX system: *1600$ STAX SR-L700 + SRM-006tS *(that amp is a hybrid amp with a very pleasant tube sound)
> 
> Plus a good streamer and DAC (if you don’t want to spend that much get the current BLUESOUND NODE, as it has all for just $549 list price)


I went with your recommendations, seems like a good deal, as it was bought new in 2019 and the STAX 717 might need a recap soon.

it is the mk1 version, I’ve tried the mk2, are there any differences? I liked the bass impact on the L300, are there any modifications I could do to improve the bass on the L007mk1?

And how is the STAX SRM-006tS? Are there any recommendations on tubes to try?


----------



## Terozzzz

Made my move from Lambda PRO and got L700 mk I (SRM-T1 AMP with new tubes and SMSL SU-9 DAC).
 Ofc i had to buy the pad mod adapters, ported and non ported. With brainwaves oval pads.
What i found out i that with non ported you get lifted bass but its bit boomy and overall sound is bit mushy.
The ported is the way to go, bass is tight and sound is really airy and soundstage is bigger.

And to blue tac mod, its a no go too.


----------



## arjuna93

Terozzzz said:


> Made my move from Lambda PRO and got L700 mk I (SRM-T1 AMP with new tubes and SMSL SU-9 DAC).
> Ofc i had to buy the pad mod adapters, ported and non ported. With brainwaves oval pads.
> What i found out i that with non ported you get lifted bass but its bit boomy and overall sound is bit mushy.
> The ported is the way to go, bass is tight and sound is really airy and soundstage is bigger.
> ...



How does it compare to Λ Pro? I have a virtually same Λ Spirit, but never tried L700.


----------



## Terozzzz (Aug 24, 2021)

arjuna93 said:


> How does it compare to Λ Pro? I have a virtually same Λ Spirit, but never tried L700.


I thought the lambda RPO was already better than my HD800 and yes they are BUT i did lost my mind what L700 can do.
L700 is better in every aspect, the soundstage is bigger, the resolution is far superior, bass is about same but the soundstage is also more 3D and instrument separation is far better. You just hear more, a lot more.
I had no idea headphone can do what L700 does and i got LCD-2c, Hifiman ananda, HD800 and many more.
Now i can basically sell all other headphones, i got no use for them at all.
I will only keep the Audeze SINE and sennheiser IE800 along with L700 ofc.
Next step is modding the T1 amp, then im done for a long time.
I dont think ill get any better sound out if not go straight to 009s and some 6000€ AMP and 2000€ DAC.

So that in mind it will take years before im willing to spend 10000€ more on headphones and that may be forever.

All this is now useless to me  Downsizing it alot....


----------



## Menkau-ra

Terozzzz said:


> I thought the lambda RPO was already better than my HD800 and yes they are BUT i did lost my mind what L700 can do.
> L700 is better in every aspect, the soundstage is bigger, the resolution is far superior, bass is about same but the soundstage is also more 3D and instrument separation is far better. You just hear more, a lot more.
> I had no idea headphone can do what L700 does and i got LCD-2c, Hifiman ananda, HD800 and many more.
> Now i can basically sell all other headphones, i got no use for them at all.
> ...


009 will have so much more resolution and sound stage. It's hard to listen my L300 LTD (almost the same as L700) after 009.


----------



## nzastro

Hi Terozzzz. 
Yes that's exactly the Same conclusion I came to with the L700's a few weeks ago. 
No to the blutac mod! 
Cheers! Tony.


----------



## Sebbai

I was to impatient to wait for the pad mount (I got the headphones 10 hours ago)

Just used som black electrical tape on the pad mount side, didn’t cover the oval space of course. Then glued some double sided tape on my GL2000 pads and stuck them on! (Perfect fit with GL2000 pads btw, same inner diameter as the oval shape of the driver)

I’m not going back to stock pads after this mod. Soundstage got wider, and bass is not muddy, also goes deeper.
I think the stock L700 had a tall soundstage, but lacked the width I’m used to when praising headphones for their soundstage capabilities.


----------



## paradoxper

CFA electrostatic which is quite rare around these parts. First I recall here.
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cfa-electrostatic-amplifier-for-stax-headphone.9997/


----------



## KDS315

Terozzzz said:


> I thought the lambda RPO was already better than my HD800 and yes they are BUT i did lost my mind what L700 can do.
> L700 is better in every aspect, the soundstage is bigger, the resolution is far superior, bass is about same but the soundstage is also more 3D and instrument separation is far better. You just hear more, a lot more.
> I had no idea headphone can do what L700 does and i got LCD-2c, Hifiman ananda, HD800 and many more.
> Now i can basically sell all other headphones, i got no use for them at all.
> ...


You’ll certainly will enjoy the CCS mod plus getting ECC99 valves for the SRM-T1!! I at least am very happy with it!!


----------



## Menkau-ra

paradoxper said:


> CFA electrostatic which is quite rare around these parts. First I recall here.
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/cfa-electrostatic-amplifier-for-stax-headphone.9997/


Is that a good amp? What can you compare it to?


----------



## Terozzzz

KDS315 said:


> You’ll certainly will enjoy the CCS mod plus getting ECC99 valves for the SRM-T1!! I at least am very happy with it!!


That is the plan  When "the german guy" comes from holiday ill ship it there.


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 25, 2021)

Terozzzz said:


> That is the plan  When "the german guy" comes from holiday ill ship it there.


Firschi aka Dominik - he did an exceptional job on mine!! Before / After...


----------



## dynavit

Holly, that looks like it was stored in a barn!
Firschi is really a master for old Stax parts.


----------



## paradoxper

Menkau-ra said:


> Is that a good amp? What can you compare it to?


This is the only published Kevin Gilmore electrostatic amplifier I've not heard. I do own the CFA3 which is the dynamic variant so I'd surmise that CFA electrostatic amp is very good.


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 26, 2021)

dynavit said:


> Holly, that looks like it was stored in a barn!
> Firschi is really a master for old Stax parts.


This is how my SRM-T1 looked like when I bought it, Dominik cleaned it up, replaced the caps and did some other
services to contacts etc. to look like new! CCS + ECC99 tubes were installed. Sound is excellent!!

He also overhauls old STAX headphones btw. (but cannot repair defective drivers).


----------



## Hubert481

Dominiks work is really excellent
I also have a modded T1 from him. T1m4


----------



## KDS315

Hubert481 said:


> Dominiks work is really excellent
> I also have a modded T1 from him. T1m4


Yep, same version I have, too!


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

I just got my grubby paws on a KGSS mini built by JR audio; upgrading from a refurbished/recapped SRM-1/Mk2 Pro.  I don't know what kind of magical pixie dust they put in this thing, but I'm absolutely floored.  It's like clearing your ears for the first time after a week-long head-cold.  Everything is more defined in space, the transients are faster with better treble-extension in short bursts (cymbals etc.).  Bass impact is markedly increased.  Detail retrieval is also much improved.  There's just _more space_, and tracks sound less congested, less fuzzy.  I've not seen this massive an positive a shift in sound-quality since my last headphone upgrade.

Just...wow.

I'm legitimately moved on an emotional level.  It's always moving to see the world from atop a higher peak of sound quality, at least for me.


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 28, 2021)

Got a STAX LAMBDA NORMAL and LAMBDA PROFESSIONAL as they were praised by some for their sound quality. Both in EX++ Condition. Will do some comparison ...


----------



## ThanatosVI

KDS315 said:


> Got a STAX LAMBDA NORMAL and LAMBDA PROFESSIONAL as they were praised by some for their sound quality. Both in EX++ Condition. Will do some comparison ...


The Sirius amp looks nice


----------



## KDS315

ThanatosVI said:


> The Sirius amp looks nice


It even SOUNDS excellent!!


----------



## nzastro

STAX! it's all great kit. 
I've just finished a listening session with my unmodded L700s via my new KGSSHV amp (even my old SR-5 Golds sound amazing!) feed off a prototype KINGSWAY (NZ designed and built by Adam Rosner) valve preamp via the Terminator DAC and Singxer SU-6 feed by my old tablet and WiFi and honestly, I can't imagine it sounding better. 
Even the Naim pre and Hicap can't compleat with the Kingsway. 
As I'm a newbie when it comes to streaming please let me know if you think you can suggest any improvements. 
I'm a vinyl guy but this set up has truly upset my perseption of streaming (Qobus and Tidal). 
All that amazing selection. 
I'm almost in heaven (in more ways than one). 
My vinyl system consists of a shelter 901 mc cart on an reasently tuned Linn lp12 /Ekos tonearm feeding a hybrid valve phono stage into the valve pre which is switchable between the Naim pre/hicap. 
The analogue still sounds great but the digital is Definately catching up! 
Once again, thank you all for your interesting posts! 
There are bugger all ES fans here in New Zealand. 
Guess the whole country has the population of an average city out there in rest of the world. 
Makes access to product very difficult and expensive. 
Anyway it's a bloody great distraction to all that's going on at the moment. 
Keep strong, fit, well n happy! 
Cheers! Tony.


----------



## Tarttett

KDS315 said:


> Got a STAX LAMBDA NORMAL and LAMBDA PROFESSIONAL as they were praised by some for their sound quality. Both in EX++ Condition. Will do some comparison ...


Would you possibly be able to provide your impression, for that sound performance, for that Sirius amplifier, in comparison for those STAX amplifiers that you would possess?


----------



## AudioCats

AudioCats said:


> Got the 727A I bought from Yahoo.JP ...
> ....
> 
> 
> ...



worked on the 727 a little more and took a picture of the pinched cable from a different angle. Not a big deal for me, as I plan to recable it anyway.


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 30, 2021)

Tarttett said:


> Would you possibly be able to provide your impression, for that sound performance, for that Sirius amplifier, in comparison for those STAX amplifiers that you would possess?


That SIRIUS V9 is quite more powerful, as it has higher voltage rails and has 1.500V peak voltage stator-stator and a much higher bias current (about 2-3x of a STAX amp). The stage is much wider and deeper, it shows no clipping at all (had that with STAX amps), has crystal clar mids and highs and a powerful well structured bass. Even very complex musical situations are handled very well and each instrument then gets still separated well (Mahler sinfonies for instance). I listen to Jazz, Rock, R+B, Classic (in that order) mainly and I'm quite a "happy camper" with it, the SIRIUS seing daily use while the my other Stay amps (3 stationary + 2 mobile ones) are idle, except the SRM-T1 (CCS/ECC99) which I use from time to time when "tube sound" is wanted. Andreas Rauenbuehler (who designed and built it) let me have it for 14 days to test and I kept it after that period! I may even get one of his hybrid amps, too, possibly in the near future...


----------



## ThanatosVI

KDS315 said:


> That SIRIUS V9 is quite more powerful, as it has higher voltage rails and has 1.500V peak voltage stator-stator and a much higher bias current (about 2-3x of a STAX amp). The stage is much wider and deeper, it shows no clipping at all (had that with STAX amps), has crystal clar mids and highs and a powerful well structured bass. Even very complex musical situations are handled very well and each instrument then gets still separated well (Mahler sinfonies for instance). I listen to Jazz, Rock, R+B, Classic (in that order) mainly and I'm quite a "happy camper" with it, the SIRIUS seing daily use while the my other Stay amps (3 stationary + 2 mobile ones) are idle, except the SRM-T1 (CCS/ECC99) which I use from time to time when "tube sound" is wanted. Andreas Rauenbuehler (who designed and built it) let me have it for 14 days to test and I kept it after that period! I may even get one of his hybrid amps, too, possibly in the near future...


I really wonder how it compares to a Mjölnir Carbon CC.


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 30, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> I really wonder how it compares to a Mjölnir Carbon CC.


Well, it also has regulated HV and LV power suppy built in with "soft start" and a rather unknown in the market "failure safe" feature which shuts down the HV within milliseconds to protect its user. It has a bit less maximum bias current, so most likely is a little powerfull than the KGSSHV CARBON, but I never missed any fast and high peak impulses or missed dynamics, on the contrary actually - but I do not listen at 100-110dB or such... 

Weil du ja auch in Deutschland bist: Der Andreas schickt dir sicher gerne einen zum Probehören!


----------



## Tugbars (Aug 30, 2021)

Carbon's current output can be set between 18-22mA. As far as I know, Sirius V9's current output is about 15mA.

For music, The ratio of peak to average level is about 17db.(approximately) That is a factor of 50 in power, if you only need 1W for average listening, you need about 50W to handle the biggest peaks without clipping. Most Stax amps have enough power for *average listening*, Stax amps will run out of juice during the biggest peaks(even with the moderate peaks) and start sounding mushy & compressed. The required power for average listening is WAY lower than what people believe, however the amount of power the biggest peaks ask for is way higher than what they believe too. That is one of the biggest reasons why Carbon(insert another powerful amp) sounds better than Stax amps especially with classical music where they are sudden, huge peaks in music. Also, SicFet transistors used in Carbon clips softer(almost like tubes), that is also a plus.


----------



## KDS315 (Aug 30, 2021)

Tugbars said:


> Carbon's current output can be set between 18-22mA. As far as I know, Sirius V9's current output is about 15mA.
> 
> For music, The ratio of peak to average level is about 17db.(approximately) That is a factor of 50 in power, if you only need 1W for average listening, you need about 50W to handle the biggest peaks without clipping. Most Stax amps have enough power for *average listening*, Stax amps will run out of juice during the biggest(even with the moderate peaks) and start sounding mushy & compressed. The required power for average listening is WAY lower than what people believe, however the amount of power the biggest peaks ask for is way higher than what they believe too. That is one of the biggest reasons why Carbon(insert another powerful amp) sounds better than Stax amps especially with classical music where they are sudden, huge peaks in music. Also, SicFet transistors used in Carbon clips softer(almost like tubes), that is also a plus.


That should be correct, I also read about the 15mA rating for the output stages of the SIRIUS V9.

Indeed, this is my listening experience also, especially with classical music when there are very loud and complex passages with many instruments; hence why I mentioned Mahler sinfonies. Hardly any of my STAX amps can handly these without having a mushy sound and losing instrument separation. The CCS/ECC99 modded SRM-T1 does rather well in those situations too, but not as good as the SIRIUS V9!


----------



## Tarttett

KDS315 said:


> That SIRIUS V9 is quite more powerful, as it has higher voltage rails and has 1.500V peak voltage stator-stator and a much higher bias current (about 2-3x of a STAX amp). The stage is much wider and deeper, it shows no clipping at all (had that with STAX amps), has crystal clar mids and highs and a powerful well structured bass. Even very complex musical situations are handled very well and each instrument then gets still separated well (Mahler sinfonies for instance). I listen to Jazz, Rock, R+B, Classic (in that order) mainly and I'm quite a "happy camper" with it, the SIRIUS seing daily use while the my other Stay amps (3 stationary + 2 mobile ones) are idle, except the SRM-T1 (CCS/ECC99) which I use from time to time when "tube sound" is wanted. Andreas Rauenbuehler (who designed and built it) let me have it for 14 days to test and I kept it after that period! I may even get one of his hybrid amps, too, possibly in the near future...





KDS315 said:


> That should be correct, I also read about the 15mA rating for the output stages of the SIRIUS V9.
> 
> Indeed, this is my listening experience also, especially with classical music when there are very loud and complex passages with many instruments; hence why I mentioned Mahler sinfonies. Hardly any of my STAX amps can handly these without having a mushy sound and losing instrument separation. The CCS/ECC99 modded SRM-T1 does rather well in those situations too, but not as good as the SIRIUS V9!


Thank you, for providing that impression, for that sound performance, for that Sirius amplifier.

I would hope for you to be able to listen for those hybrid amplifiers, within some point, within the future.


----------



## KDS315

Tarttett said:


> Thank you, for providing that impression, for that sound performance, for that Sirius amplifier.
> 
> I would hope for you to be able to listen for those hybrid amplifiers, within some point, within the future.


Already 1st in line for the forthcoming new version of his hybrid amp!!


----------



## arjuna93

elton7033 said:


> its one of the prototype which airbow made around 2012 I believe the mod consist of changing the inner wire to Diatone 7N hybrid from the connector to driver and it absolutely makes not much of a different not to mention the HD800S is still better. Unlike their Stax modded amp which is good, this didn't went well and they sold their prototype on ippinkan shop. The only reason I buy it is because it was 120000yen back then and 120000yen is quite cheap for any hd800 back in 2012.
> 
> In fact I highly question their modded headphone make a day and night different like how they mention in the description of this Airbow modded STAX SRSC21 below
> https://www.ippinkan.co.jp/airbow/product/headphone/srsc21_11.html



Airbow SC-1 already sounds astonishing with their driver and power supply (the latter does make a noticeable improvement too).

Sadly, getting SC-21 is pretty much impossible, and their supposedly latest [announced] SR-507 Special seems to never have arrived to market at all.


----------



## AudioCats (Sep 1, 2021)

zomkung said:


> ..... would like to ask the local electrician to mod my srm-727A in the next few days.
> 
> I don't have much knowledge about this and would like him to follow your suggestion which is putting the toggle switch between global feedback and non-feedback.
> *The question is*: Where should the toggle switch be located in the AMP?  (And any things I should tell him extra about this?)
> ......



I took my own advise and added the toggle switches to the cards in my 727. It worked out ok but was a bit more involved than I expected.

miniature toggles, rated to 6A/125AC, 3A/250v AC, mounted to L bracket,
L bracket bolted to the red heatsink mounting holes.
300k Caddock chip resistors (rated to 300v RMS).
wires are teflon insulated rated to 600v.




levers toward "1" = 717 = global




details are in the "727 mod notes" thread in the DIY section.


impressions, feedback style, global vs non-global (717 style vs stock 727 ), driving sr007
  similar to the impressions from my experiments done on my KGSS (which also have the feedback switchs), though to a lesser degree. 
-- "717/global" mode offers more defined bass; the sound a bit more closed-in but also more focused. Has a slight "sheen" feel to it. To me the vocal is less emotionally involving.
-- "727/non-global" mode: slightly larger stage; more lay back; more smooth, vocal more involving, I can get absorbed into the song better;  the bass control is not that great. for example, in Eva Cassidy's _Night Bird_  (from the night bird album) there is a lot of low bass. In 727 mode the bass is a wooly mess at times; in 717 mode the bass definition is quite ok. 

The downside of "717/global" mode ---- no as absorbing, easier for my attention to drift away. 


which style to pick: a trade-off, no pure gain. It depends on personal preference. When driving sr007 I'd lean toward the global/spritzer-mod mode a little more, as it cleans up the bass, and the "sheen" is not that obvious. When using ESP950 (brighter than sr007) I'd pick the 727/non-global mode.


----------



## prawn

After ~5 years listening via a SRM-252S energiser and 407 earspeakers, it was time to find out if a different energiser would improve the experience. FIve years ago, I struggled to hear any difference between the 252 and 353 energisers. However, I had often wondered if there was a ‘next level’ of fidelity and enjoyment available - especially given that I rarely found it enjoyable to listen the to 407/252 setup for more than 30 minutes. My setup is not exceptional, consisting of two paths for music to get to the energiser: (1) Apple Music lossless -> Meridian Explorer -> SRM-252S or (2) Fidelius player with Can Opener -> Meridian Explorer -> SRM-252S.

Showrooms are closed here (due to COVID restrictions), so I had to try one alternative at a time, with my only consistent reference being the 252S. Here’s what I found:

SRM-006TS. This is now obsolete, so the price was reasonable and I had always wanted to try a tube-based energiser. My initial reaction, however, was disappointment. The harder I listened to specific phrases in the music - especially in the dense parts of orchestral works - the more I liked the old 252S. The auditory equivalent of ‘pixel peeping’ had me thinking that the 006 was a retrograde step. It was only after I returned the unit that I realised that I had listened for over an hour on a few occasions and never felt the desire to stop. Anyway, back it went.
SRM-400S. It didn’t take long to decide that this was a step up from the 252S in terms of the aforementioned ’pixel peeping’, so I thought it was a keeper. The inner engineer in me also liked the idea of the all-FET design. However, after a few days I realised that although I appreciated what I could hear and resolve through the 400S, I still found myself walking away after 30 minutes’ listening. Perhaps it was time to rethink what I was looking for. So, the 400S went back too.
SRM-500T. I decided to take a different approach this time: Rather than keep going over the same phrases while switching between the 252 and the new energiser, I just let the energise warm up and started listening. I didn’t turn the volume up to levels that I would not be comfortable listing to for long periods. I drifted from one track to another, from one genre to another, and soaked in the music. Hours drifted by. I forgot all about the gear. Is the 500T better than the 006? In my mind the answer is ‘yes’. However, I suspect that the circuit diagram, and an objective assessment of signal to noise ratio, may say ‘not really’. Perhaps I had, by adopting a different approach, conditioned my self to like the 500T. Anyway, the SRM-500T is a keeper for me.


----------



## arjuna93

prawn said:


> After ~5 years listening via a SRM-252S energiser and 407 earspeakers, it was time to find out if a different energiser would improve the experience. FIve years ago, I struggled to hear any difference between the 252 and 353 energisers. However, I had often wondered if there was a ‘next level’ of fidelity and enjoyment available - especially given that I rarely found it enjoyable to listen the to 407/252 setup for more than 30 minutes. My setup is not exceptional, consisting of two paths for music to get to the energiser: (1) Apple Music lossless -> Meridian Explorer -> SRM-252S or (2) Fidelius player with Can Opener -> Meridian Explorer -> SRM-252S.
> 
> Showrooms are closed here (due to COVID restrictions), so I had to try one alternative at a time, with my only consistent reference being the 252S. Here’s what I found:
> 
> ...



Thank you for feedback. I get curious time to time about Stax tube amps, but resist buying those. Apparently, for good.

P. S. To anyone considering solid state amps, consider Airbow SRM-253 or 253s with PAC-253. They are stellar despite tiny size.


----------



## AudioCats

prawn said:


> After ~5 years listening via a SRM-252S energiser and 407 earspeakers, it was time to find out if a different energiser would improve the experience. FIve years ago, I struggled to hear any difference between the 252 and 353 energisers. However, I had often wondered if there was a ‘next level’ of fidelity and enjoyment available - especially given that I rarely found it enjoyable to listen the to 407/252 setup for more than 30 minutes. My setup is not exceptional, consisting of two paths for music to get to the energiser: (1) Apple Music lossless -> Meridian Explorer -> SRM-252S or (2) Fidelius player with Can Opener -> Meridian Explorer -> SRM-252S.
> 
> Showrooms are closed here (due to COVID restrictions), so I had to try one alternative at a time, with my only consistent reference being the 252S. Here’s what I found:
> 
> ...



agreed. what impresses/wows the most is not necessary the one with the most staying power, for me good enough is good enough, as long as there is no irritation.

 I have a 212, in stock configuration it was more detailed and with less distortion than my xh; but I could get use to the xh sound within minutes and listen for a long time non-stop, while the (stock) 212's major mid-range-burn would drive me crazy after a few songs.


----------



## arjuna93

AudioCats said:


> agreed. what impresses/wows the most is not necessary the one with the most staying power, for me good enough is good enough, as long as there is no irritation.
> 
> I have a 212, in stock configuration it was more detailed and with less distortion than my xh; but I could get use to the xh sound within minutes and listen for a long time non-stop, while the (stock) 212's major mid-range-burn would drive me crazy after a few songs.



I have found Xh to be very different with different headphones. I purchased it as a set with Nova Basic just to try, and was _very_ disappointed at first. Vocals were okay, but any electronic music or anything with bass sounded horrible. Well, it turned out that Xh paired nicely with Λ Spirit, I use it now in office and happy with this combo. Of course it is nothing close to SRM-253, but it is still pleasant to listen now. (At the same time I wasn’t impressed with Xh + SC-1 combo, despite SC-1 being much better headphone than Λ Spirit.)


----------



## kzs70

KDS315 said:


> Already 1st in line for the forthcoming new version of his hybrid amp!!


Hello,

I checked his website but it's not clear which one is this, is it the Alpha Centauri V9.5 ?


----------



## KDS315

kzs70 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I checked his website but it's not clear which one is this, is it the Alpha Centauri V9.5 ?


What do you mean by “this”? The one I have (SIRIUS V9) or the hybrid amp (Alpha Centauri)?


----------



## kzs70

KDS315 said:


> What do you mean by “this”? The one I have (SIRIUS V9) or the hybrid amp (Alpha Centauri)?


I referred to the "forthcoming new version of his hybrid amp" so I guess that's the Alpha Centauri. 
I am curious how will it compare to the CCS/ECC99  modded SRM-T1, which I like better than the 727II.
But I am still looking for something even better to drive my SR-009...


----------



## darockymn

Hey everyone  

I am looking into getting my first Stax. I have a moderate budget of around 2k+-1k usd for a headphone and the driver.  I prefer a balanced tuning suitable for variety of genres. Where should I start my research? 

The SR-L700MK2 seems like a match for my budget but the design looks really dated (no offense).
The SR-007Mk2 seems to have mixed review due to its boosted bass respond relative to the 007.

Or should I look into the used market and getting the old models?


----------



## KDS315

kzs70 said:


> I referred to the "forthcoming new version of his hybrid amp" so I guess that's the Alpha Centauri.
> I am curious how will it compare to the CCS/ECC99  modded SRM-T1, which I like better than the 727II.
> But I am still looking for something even better to drive my SR-009...


Well I drive my SR-009 with the SIRIUS V9 and am very happy with it! The 009 is easy to drive anyway...😉


----------



## Menkau-ra

И


arjuna93 said:


> Thank you for feedback. I get curious time to time about Stax tube amps, but resist buying those. Apparently, for good.
> 
> P. S. To anyone considering solid state amps, consider Airbow SRM-253 or 253s with PAC-253. They are stellar despite tiny size.


But 253S costs like $500 in Japan. Plus shipping and buying fees. Is it better to buy a used Stax amp for that price here in US or Europe?


----------



## Aurosonic

darockymn said:


> Hey everyone
> 
> I am looking into getting my first Stax. I have a moderate budget of around 2k+-1k usd for a headphone and the driver.  I prefer a balanced tuning suitable for variety of genres. Where should I start my research?
> 
> ...


Do you have a way to audition these? Any shops local to you that sell Stax?

I've never heard the SR-L700, so can't speak to its sonic qualities. I also think they look odd, but once they're on your head it doesn't much matter. Comfort is reported to be quite good.

I own the SR-007 Mk1. These have such a laid back nature to them I would imagine most people who listen to them would enjoy them. All the renowned electrostatic qualities here, with more bass and less treble than most other 'stats. Very demanding of source and amplification. Powering them with anything less than a KGSS is giving up a lot of performance. Even the SRM-717 is not enough, IMO. I had one and after upgrading to a better amp I realized it just wasn't up to the task. The Mk1 has to be purchased used, and can be had for around $1500 in good condition.

Never heard an SR-007 Mk2, but most impressions indicate the Mk1 is more balanced tonally.

The SR-009 is technically superior to the SR-007, but is more polarizing. These will be brighter sounding. I view these more as genre masters than the SR-007, which can do most genres well. If you listen to a variety of music you might find that some genres sound amazing on the SR-009, while others not so much. Cost will be around $2500 used, so won't leave much in the budget for an amp.


----------



## arjuna93

Menkau-ra said:


> И
> 
> But 253S costs like $500 in Japan. Plus shipping and buying fees. Is it better to buy a used Stax amp for that price here in US or Europe?



I got mine for about 350$ as I recall (it was three years ago or something) – used, but “like new”, from Yahoo JP. Shipping should be cheap, considering its size and weight.

What is better is up to a person making a choice of course. I am in Taiwan, so buying things from Japan is much easier than from US or Europe.


----------



## gnarlsagan

I received my L500mk2 along with a 353x today. I'm feeding the 353x with the XLR line-outs on an RME ADI-2 DAC.
Initial impressions were strong clarity compared to my Elex, but with excessive sibilance due to the ~6k peak. So using the ADI-2, I EQed ~6k down about 3dB, ~1k down about 1.5dB, and everything below 60Hz up quite a few dB. This sounds incredible now. Using a tone generator, it sounds pretty even throughout the FR, although I could probably squeeze out a bit more linearity with more EQ. 

One issue I noticed was heavy channel imbalance on the 353x at volume level 3 and below. There is no channel imbalance above volume level 3. I'm able to set the line-out volume on the ADI-2 high enough that I always listen at higher than volume level 3 on the 353x, but I feel I shouldn't have to. 

Has anyone else noticed channel imbalance on volume level 3 and below on the 353x?


----------



## kzs70

KDS315 said:


> Well I drive my SR-009 with the SIRIUS V9 and am very happy with it! The 009 is easy to drive anyway...😉


I might give it a try one day, but it would be great if you could share your opinion about that new hybrid amp once you get it, it might be an even better fit for a SR-009...


----------



## KDS315 (Sep 3, 2021)

kzs70 said:


> I might give it a try one day, but it would be great if you could share your opinion about that new hybrid amp once you get it, it might be an even better fit for a SR-009...


It will take a while I was told; not the highest priority currently.
And I have my great SRM-T1 (CCS/ECC99) if I desire tube sound


----------



## zomkung (Sep 4, 2021)

JR Audio amplifiers aka zero f are given - caveat emptor​
An article from spritzer
https://bit.ly/3jIbTL2


----------



## arjuna93

zomkung said:


> JR Audio amplifiers aka zero f are given - caveat emptor​
> An article from spritzer
> https://bit.ly/3jIbTL2



Good to know to avoid those. Thanks.


----------



## catscratch

gnarlsagan said:


> Has anyone else noticed channel imbalance on volume level 3 and below on the 353x?



Never had any channel balance issues with solid state Stax amps, and you definitely should return the amp and have it looked at.

EQing Lambdas is the way to go. They respond quite well to it and most midrange unnaturalness that people complain about disappears with a good EQ.


----------



## AudioCats

zomkung said:


> JR Audio amplifiers aka zero f are given - caveat emptor​
> An article from spritzer
> https://bit.ly/3jIbTL2



interesting read, thanks for the link. 

Kind of a strange failure, though. what caused that bridge rectifier to pop? It looks to be at least a 4A rated bridge, judging from the physical size. It would take a lot of current to make it explode like that. I first thought one of the power transistors might have shorted to the the case/ground but there is no burn mark on the transistors.


----------



## armani006

Conclusion is only one, never purchase electrostatic amps from Aliexpress )))


----------



## KDS315

armani006 said:


> Conclusion is only one, never purchase electrostatic amps from Aliexpress )))


Alieexpress is a platform (like ebay) not responsible for what is sold there; if anyone would be to blame, it is the maker of this amp: JR 😉


----------



## arjuna93

KDS315 said:


> Alieexpress is a platform (like ebay) not responsible for what is sold there; if anyone would be to blame, it is the maker of this amp: JR 😉



Other topic, but relevant to your signature: could you please compare Lambda Signature, Lambda Pro, Lambda Nova Signature and L700 Mk II?


----------



## KDS315 (Sep 6, 2021)

arjuna93 said:


> Other topic, but relevant to your signature: could you please compare Lambda Signature, Lambda Pro, Lambda Nova Signature and L700 Mk II?


This has sufficiently been discussed many years already in varius fora. No need to repeat as it is highly depending on personal taste. Personally I liked best the Lambda Nova Signature before I got the L700 Mk2, which I prefer, both superseeded by the SR-009 I mostly use now (and my SR-007 Mk2 for only relaxed listening)


----------



## Mufti

Any sound difference between the 009BK and 009?


----------



## BenF

Mufti said:


> Any sound difference between the 009BK and 009?


The color is supposed to be the only difference:




https://www.headamp.com/products/stax-sr-009bk


----------



## arnaud

I recall there may have been a pad foam change such that a recent 009 or a 009BK may not sound identical to original 009 as claimed. @AnakChan  did some search on this I recall (for 009 > 009S at least)


----------



## BenF

arnaud said:


> I recall there may have been a pad foam change such that a recent 009 or a 009BK may not sound identical to original 009 as claimed. @AnakChan  did some search on this I recall (for 009 > 009S at least)


009S definitely sounds different from 009 (worse in my opinion).
If Justin says 009BK sounds the same as 009, I think we can trust him


----------



## arnaud

Yep, a current production 009 may sound the same as 009BK limited edition for the simple fact these recent units share the same foam liner. Doesn’t mean early 009 sound the same as current (or it may have just been that my 009 had a bit worn out pads).


----------



## KDS315 (Sep 8, 2021)

Funny enough there were a few reviewers as far as I rememer who reported sound differences between the 009BK and the 009 - guess thes all did not read this:
https://www.headamp.com/products/stax-sr-009bk
Glad I did not buy one when a budy of mine offered his for sale and stayed with my 009...


----------



## Menkau-ra

What amp would be a good match with L300 LTD? Like after what point there is no reason to buy a better amp? What is their scale up limit?


----------



## elton7033

BenF said:


> 009S definitely sounds different from 009 (worse in my opinion).
> If Justin says 009BK sounds the same as 009, I think we can trust him


I agree that the 009 is a better sounding headphone than the 009S, the 009S is very good indeed, but the teamed treble dosent have the spike of an electrostatic which in my personal preference is no match to the 009.


----------



## tumpux

The countdown..

https://stax.co.jp/x/


----------



## ThanatosVI

tumpux said:


> The countdown..
> 
> https://stax.co.jp/x/


What a year... I did not expect that


----------



## Trance_Gott

10k? Hehe I'm out. I wanted to buy Stealth now this. And maybe LCD5 a few weeks later. ahhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

elton7033 said:


> I agree that the 009 is a better sounding headphone than the 009S, the 009S is very good indeed, but the teamed treble dosent have the spike of an electrostatic which in my personal preference is no match to the 009.


Funny, it's the other way around for me. I prefer the sr007 over the sr009, though. So that might just be my weird estat taste. My favorites are 007,009s and LNS in that order. I'm not a fan of the stax house sound per se.


----------



## Mufti

tumpux said:


> The countdown..
> 
> https://stax.co.jp/x/


Omg omg omg omg omg omg omg 😭😭😭😭 😩😩😩 it’s finally happening!


----------



## Mach3

tumpux said:


> The countdown..
> 
> https://stax.co.jp/x/


May I have your attention please? 
Will the real Ω successor please stand up?


----------



## eee1111

tumpux said:


> The countdown..
> 
> https://stax.co.jp/x/


Oh my

I wonder how expensive this is going to be


----------



## KDS315 (Sep 10, 2021)

"If you need to ask - you can't afford" my grandma always said...


----------



## NOMOS

The more it costs the better, otherwise it is sold out too quickly


----------



## dukeskd

Let's see what happens..


----------



## eee1111

KDS315 said:


> "If you need to ask - you can't afford" my grandma always said...


Right now I sure cant
I’d have to sell stuff


----------



## Roukii

Omg!  finally, the omega x...
that looks very similar mesh stator to hifiman sgl


----------



## Mufti

Roukii said:


> Omg!  finally, the omega x...
> that looks very similar mesh stator to hifiman sgl


Haha, Hifiman is going to be in trouble. 😂


----------



## AudiophileJargon

tumpux said:


> The countdown..
> 
> https://stax.co.jp/x/


I hope this will be at Canjam Socal this month


----------



## Mach3

Mufti said:


> Haha, Hifiman is going to be in trouble. 😂


Stax never had any intention of taking any cheap fi market share.


----------



## number1sixerfan

I'll definitely be grabbing any new flagship Stax puts out. Period. I don't care what I have to sell or how many meals I have to skip lol


----------



## protoss (Sep 11, 2021)

All hail!

One of the greatest audiophile company to ever exist on planet earth "STAX."

Going to announce and release yet again another legendary status headphone for planet earth. 🙌





OMEGA 1993 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-Ω-sr-omega-the-legendary-omega.847079/

OMEGA X 2021 - 😎


----------



## AudioCats (Sep 11, 2021)

will they release a new flagship amp to match the new flagship phones?


----------



## AudioCats (Sep 11, 2021)

French Penguin said:


> ....
> I couldn't remove the anti-gray market screws which prevent swapping the voltages on the back without drilling and ....



there might not be a need to undo the temper-proof screws when changing between 100 <--> 117v. I was able to do it in my 313 without removing the selector cover piece.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sma...ier-modification-thread.766837/#post-16543401


----------



## Mufti

Trance_Gott said:


> 10k? Hehe I'm out. I wanted to buy Stealth now this. And maybe LCD5 a few weeks later. ahhhhhhhhhhh


Hoping for 6-7k instead 🥺


----------



## martin778 (Sep 12, 2021)

What is the model number of Stax SR-407's earpads? (No it;'s not EP-407  ) I know there are the EP507 pads which are genuine leather but they really are too expensive here, paid €210 for last pair.
Is it the EP-234BR (Brown)?


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

martin778 said:


> Is it the EP-234BR (Brown)?


Yep.


----------



## martin778 (Sep 12, 2021)

Thanks! I also wonder if there is a more robust way to install them rather than using the supplied tape.
I've had EP-507's on 404's and it looked weird, the first layer would stick to the metal plates without issues (the plates were cleaned with isopropyl alcohol) on the 404 but the next layer, which I suppose was a bit of fabric between the leather, looked like it wanted to come loose over time but I guess that's how the pads were made. Bit disappointing though, considering the price.


----------



## elton7033

hope the new Stax X is not a 1000000yen headphone, otherwise i wont be able to afford it.


----------



## elton7033 (Sep 12, 2021)

Mufti said:


> Hoping for 6-7k instead 🥺


I am out even for 7k, I admire new technology and improvemt but not skyrocketing flagship price under COVID. infect I dont see the 007Mk1 are that inferior to my 009 with a proper amp like the KGSSHV Carbon or BHSE. I wish the price is somehow similar to the CRBN.


----------



## Mach3

number1sixerfan said:


> I'll definitely be grabbing any new flagship Stax puts out. Period. I don't care what I have to sell or how many meals I have to skip lol


Looking at your recent sales in your sig, you're already preparing funds. If you're short you can always just offload the Shangri-La Sr. HAHA


----------



## elton7033

Mach3 said:


> Looking at your recent sales in your sig, you're already preparing funds. If you're short you can always just offload the Shangri-La Sr. HAHA


Maybe is time for me to sell some stuff as well. lol


----------



## elton7033

Mach3 said:


> Stax never had any intention of taking any cheap fi market share.


STAX dont need to be expensive to sound good like hifiman, a good example will be the L300LTD


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

martin778 said:


> I also wonder if there is a more robust way to install them rather than using the supplied tape.


Never had problems using tape. In fact, it's much more robust than the new clipped version. I usually use 3M 9088, though.


----------



## Janitor

I´m pretty sure Stax is doubling the price again, and X costs more than 10 k...


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Probably. Headphone companies going bananas with their pricing as of late.


----------



## Axel

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Probably. Headphone companies going bananas with their pricing as of late.


As long as people are buying, they will keep rising...


----------



## Terozzzz

7-10K$ mark for sure


----------



## dukeskd

Prices should not be trending this way....


----------



## number1sixerfan

Hey, let's all try to be positive lol. Fingers crossed for $5k or less lol


----------



## eee1111

dukeskd said:


> Prices should not be trending this way....


its only our faults for supporting it

people are paying and they're getting greedier


----------



## lsantista

I bet my dollar on $6-7k. I mean, less than 5500 may even feel like "is there really so much technical novelty here?". Is it the big sucessor to the Omegas? This is also more in line with Susvara; and finally... even stax recently touched the 7k barrier with its last amp, which Ive never heard but doesn't seem so great or advanced as to justify premium over other amps. More than $7k? well, that may leave the field too open to comments like "its not $3k better than this, it doesn't sound X dollars better than that". Of course this is all guessing. 

What I hope for is that they manage to succeed on improving SQ without any "strong" tonality, as some TOTL phones that try to please all genres. If it tops other TOTL / previous Omegas on classical and is at least as good in most other genres, with good build quality throughout, that may justify a good premium and please the Stax audiance that wants sth closer to original Omega and can't get or are too afraid due to its fragility, etc. Again, Im guessing / wishful thinking


----------



## Mufti

number1sixerfan said:


> Hey, let's all try to be positive lol. Fingers crossed for $5k or less lol


5-6k I’m willing to pay that much but 10k? **** that! 😑


----------



## Mach3

Shangri la Sr and he 1 makes the new x looks like a bargain


----------



## ThanatosVI

Mach3 said:


> Shangri la Sr and he 1 makes the new x looks like a bargain


If it performs like the He1 the price tag of 10k is fine.


----------



## padam

ThanatosVI said:


> If it performs like the He1 the price tag of 10k is fine.


The HE1 sounds completely different to any Stax (no wonder, completely different transducer design).

In a past article, they hinted that they were aiming to recreate the sonic qualities of the old Omega, which was another headphone using gold-plated mesh stators.
That's probably what they say "The Proud Tradition" in the teaser and they also hinted at bring the Omega name back.


----------



## KDS315

Yep, is my expectation too that they will bring back the “original” OMEGA!


----------



## ThibSan

The return!




And apparently "Recent additions include gluten free, vegan, paleo and keto dishes.". Take that Hifiman!


----------



## dynavit

KDS315 said:


> Yep, is my expectation too that they will bring back the “original” OMEGA!


Just warming up old stuff wouldn`t be the right way. The Omega is a mythos but doesn`t have enough soundquality (resolution, detail, stage) for a new flagship. 
Imaging Sennheiser would just have copied the HE90.


----------



## shabta

dynavit said:


> Just warming up old stuff wouldn`t be the right way. The Omega is a mythos but doesn`t have enough soundquality (resolution, detail, stage) for a new flagship.
> Imaging Sennheiser would just have copied the HE90.


That would have been awesome. Although the HE-1 is the second best headphone I ever heard


----------



## makan

Only 104 minutes left https://stax.co.jp/x/


----------



## eee1111

makan said:


> Only 104 minutes left https://stax.co.jp/x/


Until we find out it costs 10K

lol


----------



## normie610

eee1111 said:


> Until we find out it costs 10K
> 
> lol


If it’s in japanese yen, I’ll go for the 10K price! 😂


----------



## number1sixerfan

eee1111 said:


> Until we find out it costs 10K
> 
> lol



Stop speaking this into existence lol


----------



## AudiophileJargon

10 minutes


----------



## makan

Here it is 
https://stax.co.jp/product/sr-x9000/


----------



## lsantista

around 6,340 USD


----------



## eee1111

Sr-x 9000


----------



## lsantista

lsantista said:


> I bet my dollar on $6-7k. I mean, less than 5500 may even feel like "is there really so much technical novelty here?". Is it the big sucessor to the Omegas? This is also more in line with Susvara; and finally... even stax recently touched the 7k barrier with its last amp, which Ive never heard but doesn't seem so great or advanced as to justify premium over other amps. More than $7k? well, that may leave the field too open to comments like "its not $3k better than this, it doesn't sound X dollars better than that". Of course this is all guessing.
> 
> What I hope for is that they manage to succeed on improving SQ without any "strong" tonality, as some TOTL phones that try to please all genres. If it tops other TOTL / previous Omegas on classical and is at least as good in most other genres, with good build quality throughout, that may justify a good premium and please the Stax audiance that wants sth closer to original Omega and can't get or are too afraid due to its fragility, etc. Again, Im guessing / wishful thinking


Guess I just won a dollar!


----------



## AudiophileJargon




----------



## lsantista

already contender for most beautiful HP ever in IMO. 
btw, do you guys think Stax staff was too busy to proofread the webpage for the new flagship and the text is sufferable even in Japanese, or is it all google translate's fault? so many pearls..


----------



## lsantista

glad we get a shorter cable but.. since we are still getting/paying for the 2.5m cable instead of choosing a version by the cable lenght, Id def prefer it even shorter such as 1.2m or even 1m


----------



## EMINENT

wallets closing up in unison


----------



## number1sixerfan

Totally depends on the performance obviously, but the price isn't that bad at all at first glance given the market. Love that the 009 is essentially the base being built from. 

Was listening to the 009 and Shangri-la Sr. earlier today. If Stax closes the performance gap between the two even to a degree, at this price, it will be a steal. Not sure that will happen, but I'll be finding out myself. I would also prefer that it keeps the 009 tonal balance (*except* the streaky brightness here and there in the highs).


----------



## AnakChan

From Stax Japan's Twitter (https://twitter.com/STAX1938/status/1438306641804419073?s=20)


----------



## musicman59

I live my SR-009 with my RSA A-10 Thunderbolt.
I was getting very interested in the Audeze CRBN but now my sights are changing direction 😉

Hope to start seeing some reviews and comparison soon!


----------



## NOMOS

https://stax-international.com/products/sr-x9000/


----------



## Sajid Amit

NOMOS said:


> https://stax-international.com/products/sr-x9000/


Awaiting reviews


----------



## elton7033

Well done stax 6.3k USD headphone


----------



## Audio Addict

Will @jude have a video up this week?  I would think it would be at So.Cal CanJam this month on the 25th & 26th.


----------



## padam (Sep 15, 2021)

https://www.phileweb.com/news/audio/202109/16/22761_2.html
https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/df9405ac96960a4ebe3f77cab4304242fd7438d2
Short listening impression in Japanese


----------



## eee1111

And now the saving begins


----------



## DinoTheDrongo

padam said:


> https://www.phileweb.com/news/audio/202109/16/22761_2.html
> https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/df9405ac96960a4ebe3f77cab4304242fd7438d2
> Short listening impression in Japanese




 

Good to see they are testing the backwards configuration as well


----------



## Chefguru

Lighter, detachable cable, better headband, 20% bigger driver, sr-omega technology merged with sr-009s innovation….
Wow


----------



## paradoxper

Looks fantastic. Nice to see some evolved manufacturing and without an atrocious price gap.


----------



## elton7033 (Sep 15, 2021)

First Youtube review in Japanese by Fujiya Avic, Damn how many kidney i need to sell for this lol.


----------



## amsync

Maybe a silly question but for the better informed are we sure that the JPY MSRP translates to the USA/USD MSRP? I seem to remember from when I bought the 009 back in the day that the Japan price was lower than what I'd pay for it from an authorized USA reseller?


----------



## Ciggavelli

elton7033 said:


> First Youtube review in Japanese by Fujiy aAvic, Damn how many kidney i need to sell for this lol.



I don’t speak the language. What were the main findings?


----------



## xmr0613

This is to me is the most exciting pair among all the recent flagships! Looks like I won't be able to hear this in the following Canjam, though...


----------



## padam (Sep 16, 2021)

amsync said:


> Maybe a silly question but for the better informed are we sure that the JPY MSRP translates to the USA/USD MSRP? I seem to remember from when I bought the 009 back in the day that the Japan price was lower than what I'd pay for it from an authorized USA reseller?


Looking at the pricing of the SR-009S, the MSRP might roughly translate.
But in Japan the street price could be about 10% cheaper, while there won't be any 'discounts' internationally.
Already 10% cheaper here:
https://www.fujiya-avic.co.jp/shop/g/g200000060690/


----------



## elton7033

amsync said:


> Maybe a silly question but for the better informed are we sure that the JPY MSRP translates to the USA/USD MSRP? I seem to remember from when I bought the 009 back in the day that the Japan price was lower than what I'd pay for it from an authorized USA reseller?


If japan is selling for 6k then maybe is 7-8k in us...


----------



## padam

https://headfreaks.eu/collections/earspeakers-1/products/stax-sr-x9000
Price from the Danish distributor appr. 6850€


----------



## amsync

elton7033 said:


> If japan is selling for 6k then maybe is 7-8k in us...


I hope its not $1k+ in USA. At that price it will be (almost) 2x the 9S (e.g. headamp open box price for 9S is ~4k) so will it be really 2x better? (LOL I know it doesn't work that way, but still)


----------



## padam

It will be about 40% more than the SR-009S, around 6500$


----------



## Chefguru

Very happy with this price point honestly. The Sr009/Sr009s retains value, and yet the Srx9000 isn't too far out of price point that it cost as much as a 2nd hand sr-omega or he90


----------



## Ruddy1

○mg


----------



## ThanatosVI

I'm curious how it sounds. 
Hopefully not as bright as 009 and with less bass drop off


----------



## Ruddy1

DinoTheDrongo said:


> Good to see they are testing the backwards configuration as well


Headphones are turned upside down.  HIHIHIHI


----------



## Ruddy1

The Japanese like to turn their headphones upside down

wear


----------



## Axel

First impressions translated from a Japanese website:
“In classical orchestral works, the role of each instrument can be clearly seen while expressing the expanse of space.  It is a unique charm of Stax that you can see the details properly while creating a magnificent space.

 If you dare to mention the difference between X9000 and 009S, the X9000 feels dry and silky, and the 009S feels a little damp and sticky air pressure.  It seems that you can make your favorite choices around here according to the music you want to listen to.

 However, this was an impression when I borrowed the new product as soon as possible, and even after actually playing it for a few hours, I felt a considerable change in the sound.  Specifically, the impression that the power and reality of the low range deepens with each sound.  The potential of ear speakers was expected to be still ahead.”


----------



## Chefguru

Axel said:


> First impressions translated from a Japanese website:
> “In classical orchestral works, the role of each instrument can be clearly seen while expressing the expanse of space.  It is a unique charm of Stax that you can see the details properly while creating a magnificent space.
> 
> If you dare to mention the difference between X9000 and 009S, the X9000 feels dry and silky, and the 009S feels a little damp and sticky air pressure.  It seems that you can make your favorite choices around here according to the music you want to listen to.
> ...



i pREfr damP AND siKLy


----------



## elton7033

Axel said:


> First impressions translated from a Japanese website:
> “In classical orchestral works, the role of each instrument can be clearly seen while expressing the expanse of space.  It is a unique charm of Stax that you can see the details properly while creating a magnificent space.
> 
> If you dare to mention the difference between X9000 and 009S, the X9000 feels dry and silky, and the 009S feels a little damp and sticky air pressure.  It seems that you can make your favorite choices around here according to the music you want to listen to.
> ...


I decided I am going to try srx9000 out. So I am now selling my 007mk1 and 009 for it, but if it’s not my cup of tea then I am screwed.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Most important to me is the comparison between the srx9000 and CRBN.


----------



## arnaud (Sep 16, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> I don’t speak the language. What were the main findings?



I'd be lying if I said I understood all of that  was said crystal clear but over 90% of the talk was the points mentioned in the press release.

The rest about their own feeling is that, this is it, this is the most speaker like "earspeaker" they've come up with, it sounds different from previous models so they hope people will give it a try with the music they like to listen to. I am not sure if they implied that it's both improved from previous 009/S yet also more forgiving of poor recordings but it's sort of how I read into it (and it would answer many 007 / original omega fans prayers for those who disliked the 009 voicing for instance).

Still too rich for my blood but, if I had the funds and was still in headphone hobby, I'd clearly want to check them out, they look fabulous to me as well.

I agree these are more exciting than several of the flagship announcements of past couple of months except maybe for the Audeze but, somehow, my bet goes to Stax as they've been at it for a long while  .

cheers,
arnaud


----------



## mammal

ThanatosVI said:


> Most important to me is the comparison between the srx9000 and CRBN.


Absolutely!


----------



## number1sixerfan

ThanatosVI said:


> Most important to me is the comparison between the srx9000 and CRBN.



I think the CRBN has to first prove that it can compete with the 009 and 007. I'm not sold that it will best either, but then again all of this is speculation.


----------



## ThanatosVI

number1sixerfan said:


> I think the CRBN has to first prove that it can compete with the 009 and 007. I'm not sold that it will best either, but then again all of this is speculation.


Yeah the CRBN announcement came way too early, they certainly weren't ready for a Release.

Still no User reviews available.


----------



## amsync

ThanatosVI said:


> Yeah the CRBN announcement came way too early, they certainly weren't ready for a Release.
> 
> Still no User reviews available.


I wonder if they were anticipating the Stax flagship release and thought, well let's get people to send us their cash for orders before the Stax announcement. I might be wrong but I seem to have deja vu. Didn't something similar happen to the Voce also when the 9S came out at the same time? I kind of want Audeze to be wildly successful with their CRBN because this kind of competition in the estat is what we need for this technology, but I won't be committing my funds until I hear these both. It looks like canjam NYC 22 is going to be on fire!


----------



## padam (Sep 16, 2021)

number1sixerfan said:


> I think the CRBN has to first prove that it can compete with the 009 and 007. I'm not sold that it will best either, but then again all of this is speculation.


Bob Katz has packed away his modified the SR-007 Mk2 because he preferred how the CRBN sounded (I assume he still has a KGSSHV Carbon).
So at the very least it is probably able to compete with these headphones. But of course, it costs well over double compared to an SR-007 Mk2, the SR-X9000 is way more again, and declaring one as the best is always going to be quite personal.


----------



## ThanatosVI

amsync said:


> I wonder if they were anticipating the Stax flagship release and thought, well let's get people to send us their cash for orders before the Stax announcement. I might be wrong but I seem to have deja vu. Didn't something similar happen to the Voce also when the 9S came out at the same time? I kind of want Audeze to be wildly successful with their CRBN because this kind of competition in the estat is what we need for this technology, but I won't be committing my funds until I hear these both. It looks like canjam NYC 22 is going to be on fire!


Yeah unfortunate for them Meze announced the Elite otherwise they would have ny cash for the CRBN. 
Certainly didn't expect a new Stax this year


----------



## number1sixerfan

ThanatosVI said:


> Yeah the CRBN announcement came way too early, they certainly weren't ready for a Release.
> 
> Still no User reviews available.





amsync said:


> I wonder if they were anticipating the Stax flagship release and thought, well let's get people to send us their cash for orders before the Stax announcement. I might be wrong but I seem to have deja vu. Didn't something similar happen to the Voce also when the 9S came out at the same time? I kind of want Audeze to be wildly successful with their CRBN because this kind of competition in the estat is what we need for this technology, but I won't be committing my funds until I hear these both. It looks like canjam NYC 22 is going to be on fire!



Both good points. Even just a few solid reviews would be helpful.. and I do have to say, if I knew about the Stax launch a few weeks ago, I probably wouldn't have orderd the CRBN. But at least these are exciting times for electrostatics, so I'm not really regretful. Still hoping the CRBN is really, really good.


----------



## amsync

number1sixerfan said:


> Both good points. Even just a few solid reviews would be helpful.. and I do have to say, if I knew about the Stax launch a few weeks ago, I probably wouldn't have orderd the CRBN. But at least these are exciting times for electrostatics, so I'm not really regretful. Still hoping the CRBN is really, really good.


I think that's the right way to look at it. I almost committed to the CRBN also and I may still. I also think there are so many devoted Audeze fans (me included) that really want their first estat that the secondary market will also be very good for it. There's always going to be people that want these at some discount only. With the options nowadays for estat amplification being somewhat more accessible it may bring more folks to this tech too. The Stax flagship is in a bit of a different price class too especially in the USA/Europe it seems.


----------



## ThanatosVI

number1sixerfan said:


> Both good points. Even just a few solid reviews would be helpful.. and I do have to say, if I knew about the Stax launch a few weeks ago, I probably wouldn't have orderd the CRBN. But at least these are exciting times for electrostatics, so I'm not really regretful. Still hoping the CRBN is really, really good.


If you don't like it and can't return it, it probably won't be hard to sell on the 2nd hand market.

There is at least one potential Buyer


----------



## Axel

I would expect the CRBN to be closer to the Audeze house-sound and the Stax to the Stax house-sound.
Fron my experience with those 2 brands, it’s a completely different direction in sound.


----------



## Sandro Sena (Sep 16, 2021)

$5,800.00

a good surprise, considering the asking price in yen

https://www.headamp.com/products/stax-sr-x9000


----------



## amsync

Sandro Sena said:


> $5,800.00
> 
> a good surprise, considering the asking price in yen
> 
> https://www.headamp.com/products/stax-sr-x9000


uh oh! How does that math work? I wonder if it is a typo... Shall we not tell Justin? LOL


----------



## padam

I've already linked the cheapest domestic price
https://www.fujiya-avic.co.jp/shop/g/g200000060690/

It equals to 5800$, so the US price seems real.


----------



## buzzlulu

Just spoke with him on the phone- my order is in


----------



## Sandro Sena (Sep 16, 2021)

buzzlulu said:


> Just spoke with him on the phone- my order is in


Congratulations... for me, it will be a loooooong wait. In my country, we pay something between 60% and 100% (via courier) of taxes on the value of the product + shipping. Insane!


----------



## amsync

buzzlulu said:


> Just spoke with him on the phone- my order is in


Congrats, oh the temptation now with this price point after I expected it to be $8k! On another note, the way these cables just snap off (they show it in the video  at about 9:50) I wonder if there will be an aftermarket for these, or would that be difficult because they still have to make those snap on plugs?


----------



## Trance_Gott

padam said:


> Bob Katz has packed away his modified the SR-007 Mk2 because he preferred how the CRBN sounded (I assume he still has a KGSSHV Carbon).


Where did you read this?


----------



## omega1990

Headamp has a product page up for the new omega on there site:
https://www.headamp.com/products/stax-sr-x9000
Price: $5,800


----------



## DJJEZ

omega1990 said:


> Headamp has a product page up for the new omega on there site:
> https://www.headamp.com/products/stax-sr-x9000
> Price: $5,800


Good price


----------



## Mufti

buzzlulu said:


> Just spoke with him on the phone- my order is in


Wow, he actually responded back? Been trying to contact him for 2 weeks! 🤬


----------



## greenhorn

shabta said:


> That would have been awesome. Although the HE-1 is the second best headphone I ever heard


The best one being…?


----------



## Ciggavelli

DJJEZ said:


> Good price


It is, especially since we all thought it would cost thousands more.  I wonder if they were using a psychological trick on us  



> Go Big and Then Small​This approach is the opposite of the foot-in-the-door approach. A salesperson will begin by making a large, often unrealistic request. The individual responds by refusing, figuratively slamming the door on the sale.
> 
> 
> The salesperson responds by making a much smaller request, which often comes off as conciliatory. People often feel obligated to respond to these offers. Since they refused that initial request, people often feel compelled to help the salesperson by accepting the smaller request. (https://www.verywellmind.com/how-to-become-a-master-of-persuasion-2795901)


----------



## M3NTAL

Sennheiser, your move.. I'm guessing they will come with a consumer version of the HE-1... kinda like the HE90/HE60.   I already think my Audeze LCD-R system at 2,500 is just as high fidelity as the HE-1 though, so it's going to be a tough sale for another 5K+ Electrostatic headphone.


----------



## omega1990

A consumer version of the HE-1 would be amazing. Personally, I would like it if Sony threw their hat in the ring and make a new flagship to challenge all of these other new flagships. The z1r has been around for I think 5 years, so I'm sure Sony must've been working on something.


----------



## musicman59

I guess I need to start raising the money just to wait for some impressions to pull the trigger.


----------



## Mach3

omega1990 said:


> A consumer version of the HE-1 would be amazing. Personally, I would like it if Sony threw their hat in the ring and make a new flagship to challenge all of these other new flagships. The z1r has been around for I think 5 years, so I'm sure Sony must've been working on something.


Sony needs to release MDR-R20 a proper successor to the R10


----------



## dukeskd

Mach3 said:


> Sony needs to release MDR-R20 a proper successor to the R10


Now that would be dope. But alas the Sony of today, is a different beast from the euphoric and ambitious Sony of the 1980s.


----------



## omega1990

dukeskd said:


> Now that would be dope. But alas the Sony of today, is a different beast from the euphoric and ambitious Sony of the 1980s.



True, I believe they said they want each new flagship to chase a new direction, but I can only hope whatever the next new direction will be will reach similar technical and musical capabilities of what we are now seeing. 

Also I noticed headamps site said the x9000 is to sound clear and warm. If the 009 was a bit bright and the 007 a bit dark to me anyway (to some not dark, but a bit warm), then you could justify having all 3 omega headphones, one for a different speaker like experience. Sounds exciting, but super expensive. I just bought my 009S and I'm still getting used to it on my mjolnir novem amp. It's definitely an eye opening experience as it is my first sumit fi can purchase.


----------



## Kiats

omega1990 said:


> True, I believe they said they want each new flagship to chase a new direction, but I can only hope whatever the next new direction will be will reach similar technical and musical capabilities of what we are now seeing.
> 
> Also I noticed headamps site said the x9000 is to sound clear and warm. If the 009 was a bit bright and the 007 a bit dark to me anyway (to some not dark, but a bit warm), then you could justify having all 3 omega headphones, one for a different speaker like experience. Sounds exciting, but super expensive. I just bought my 009S and I'm still getting used to it on my mjolnir novem amp. It's definitely an eye opening experience as it is my first sumit fi can purchase.


oooh... you have the Novem amp! How is it compared to the KGST amp?


----------



## tumpux

I dont think Justin or anyone on Headamp already heard SR-X9000. That statement must be pulled from marketing blurb.


----------



## amsync (Sep 17, 2021)

Sandro Sena said:


> $5,800.00
> 
> a good surprise, considering the asking price in yen
> 
> https://www.headamp.com/products/stax-sr-x9000


Headamp and STAX now are both listing the cans at $6200 USD for USA buyers not the $5800 from earlier in the day. Weirdly I actually confirmed the price with Justin earlier because I thought it was odd and he specifically confirmed that 5800 was right.

Either a mistake was made with the original launch (in that case congrats to those that jumped already but poor execution of the launch) or they held a (secret???) sale for the first day? If its the latter that really is not sitting right with me. It's one thing to run a temporary sale for folks that want to support the launch but then why not advertise it? You'd want to make sure as many people jump on it as possible.

Edit: apparently the initial price was not the correct USA price, so it seems the go forward price in the US will be $6200..


----------



## omega1990

The Novem amp brings traditional tube warmth with more power than my stax 727ii amp. The sound gains tonal density and the bass has more impact and presence. Even though its a tube amp, it has a very tight grip on the headphones drivers and the volume gets loud very fast. Unfortunately, the only other amp I have tried was the stax d50 which is weaker than both amps mentioned above, I cannot state how it compares to any other amp. I am still trying to save for a Blue Hawaii se. 

As the previous owner of my novem amp stated that most of its power seems to be on the front end. So in terms of even the most demanding/power hungry estat, I am usually listening below noon on the volume nob. 

What I would be most concerned about would be synergy between the estat and this amp. The stax 009S, 404le, and srx mk3 pro that I have, all sounded exciting and ideal. It will now be hard for me to enjoy these on any other amp after hearing these 3 on my novem when compared to my 727ii and d50, I was quite blown away actually. The mk3 pro which is a monitor headphone sounded great with every track I threw at it. Same for the 404le and 009s, but classical really stood out on the 404le and the 009S while still being a tad bright on the novem, sounded more balanced than on the 727ii which on this amp sounded thin and a bit lifeless. The novem in a way turned these 3 headphones from headphones IMHO into speaker like experiences. Less of a 2d presentation and had a more holographic forwardness to the details.

However, my 007mk1, voce, and sigma using stax 404 drivers, while they can be powered by this amp are not given justice for what they do. The sound of this amp makes these 3 too relaxed, unegaging compared to the excitement I get from the 3 brighter headphones mentioned in the previous paragraph. I feel the Blue Hawaii will be more ideal for these 3 headphones. Hope that helps


----------



## omega1990

tumpux said:


> I dont think Justin or anyone on Headamp already heard SR-X9000. That statement must be pulled from marketing blurb.


I'm pretty sure you are correct, from the email I got from headamp announcing the x9000, they are posting new info as they get it from stax japan.


----------



## AnakChan

Here's the press release in English. Not certain if it contains anything more than on the Stax International page but thought it's a nice summary here :-


----------



## MadHatterRyu

September 2021, Saitama Prefecture Fujimi City, Stax HQ

Stax Products have been preserved (Historical museum)

Products displaying the journey to today lined up on the shelves.

Many of these have earned the "legendary" status.

And now a new flagship model gets unveiled.

And that is

STAX SR X9000

First report

So what kind of headphone is the Stax SR X9000?

(in the picture, 静魂 means calm spirit)

X ancestry, Ω genetics
(I swear they originally read it as Chi not X and along the phase of development, it became X because everyone just called it that)

We have answers from people from Stax.

Yoshinori Tachihara the manager of PR 
and Moriyasu Machida the GM of Engineering departments.

Sorry for taking up your time today, but can you tell us about your intent with making this product?

Our original intent was to surpass the SR009S.

Our main focus was to work on large metallic mesh around the electrodes

The original idea came from the X that we developed in 1970. 

It's an excellent approach to reduce air resistance and only allow sound to pass through with minimum reflection too.

We introduced the idea into the flagship of 1993, the SR Omega. This time with a larger driver too.

There's a limit on how big we can make the mesh because this reduces the rigidity.

Therefore, we had to add reinforcing for the metallic mesh and this had to be done through precision work by hand.
This affects the ability to mass produce something.

But we still wanted to keep using the metallic mesh concept due to it's incredible properties. 

We came up with the idea of MLER (Multi layer elect rords)
Multi layered fixed electrode as it's called in the english site.
This allowed for a very effective means of production.

The X9000 uses this for reinforcement. We have 4 layers of stainless steel. I know it looks like 1 layer.

5:06 This here is the metallic mesh.

Along with the metal mesh, we have 3 fixed electrodes. 
They are all attached together through a heat based diffusion bonding process.
The bonding happens over a high temperature, slow pressing process in vacuum. 
This allows for bonding at the molecular level.

So the original Omega needed resin for the bonding but this time we are able to create the driver without needing bonding agent and yet have an even more rigid structure. 

It seems the driver of the X9000 is larger than the SR009.

Yes so we have achieved a 20% increase in area compared to the SR009S, our former flagship.
We will keep trying to push the boundaries of the headphone listening experience.

There appear to be significant differences in the appearances of the SR009/009S and the SRX9000, is there any particular detail you want us to pay attention to?

Firstly we've done away with plastic parts and decided to go with metallic instead. The head band (ARC ASSY) uses stainless steel. 

Stainless steel is easy enough to machine based on demand while allowing for excellent build quality. 

The problem is that stainless steel is prone to vibrations. This time, we used the ARC ASSY and have a stabiliser part at the summit. This returns the vibrations coming from the driver. 

Even the headpad adjustment part is now metallic. We went with a smooth sliding based adjustment this time.

Have there been any improvements to the way the housing works? What can you tell us about the physical and acoustic properties of the new guard mesh?

We are using a tilt guard mesh this time. It has a stay that is elongated towards the end so it is not flat, thus giving it an angle. This causes a dispersion and prevents unnecessary sounds being generated. 

Mr Machida, can you tell us if there's anything about the screws that are being used in the assembly of the guard mesh?

The screws holding the guard mesh use a hexagonal head and gold paint. They were meant to stand out. Honestly any normal bolt would have done but we decided to go with hexagon head bolts instead.

What can you tell us about the new earpads and cables?

The earpads use the same high quality leather that you find in other Stax products. As for cable, this time we are going with a removable type. This allows you to use higher grade cables if you want. 
Instead of having the cables right at the bottom, we introduced a slight angle. Some users will experience better wearing comfort because this extended portion points forward.
We will be providing 2 cables 2.5 and 1.5m

And what do you say is one immediate thing to look out for with the new X9000?

The exterior definitely has a lot of changes but the one thing to look out for has to be the new sound.

Till now we had no headphone that was specifically made to match the capability of the SRM T8000.
It was a flagship headphone amplifier without a matching headphone. Our users paid a lot for this amplifier.
So it was only fair we build one keeping the T8000 user in mind.

And paired with the T8000, this headphone will outperform the SR009S. 
We really want you all to experience this.

I'm sure there exist old timers who will remember how good the SRX sounded back in the day and we wanted to use a similar one again.

But this time as an ear speaker instead of a headphone. We call them speakers because the experience is closer to speaker listening. 

What genre do you think this headphone will best compliment?

We don't really think about the genre that much, our approach is to keep reinventing our sound itself. 
We want listeners to experience the feel of "listening to a new sound altogether" from all their previous listening experiences.
I believe this product has the capability of doing that.

We want you to crank the volume to your hearts content *pause* without hurting your ears of course. (they laugh)

I think you should just listen to the music you like best.

Will the SR X9000 work on amps other than the T8000?

It should still technically work with the SRM 400S/500T but for best results, it should be paired with the T8000. But there's a definite improvement even at SRM700S/700T for those who don't want to spend that much on the T8000

The headphone goes on sale on 8th of October for 693000 Yen including tax.

We're excited to bring this product to you. Because of the pandemic has definitely affected our listening meetups but we will try our best to host ways for people to experience the SR X8000.

Please keep watching our updates for events we are participating in.

Please take care of us. (yoroshiku onegaishimasu, there's no perfect english translation to this)

This is both a new flagship as well as a new sound. We really hope you get to experience it too. 

Please take care of us.


----------



## Kiats

omega1990 said:


> The Novem amp brings traditional tube warmth with more power than my stax 727ii amp. The sound gains tonal density and the bass has more impact and presence. Even though its a tube amp, it has a very tight grip on the headphones drivers and the volume gets loud very fast. Unfortunately, the only other amp I have tried was the stax d50 which is weaker than both amps mentioned above, I cannot state how it compares to any other amp. I am still trying to save for a Blue Hawaii se.
> 
> As the previous owner of my novem amp stated that most of its power seems to be on the front end. So in terms of even the most demanding/power hungry estat, I am usually listening below noon on the volume nob.
> 
> ...


thanks so much for your impressions. Very helpful indeed! In which case, I might go for the KGST, which has been described as a mini BHSE, instead. The BHSE takes up too much footprint for me since I already have other gear.


----------



## shabta

greenhorn said:


> The best one being…?


HE-90


----------



## Mach3

shabta said:


> HE-90


Your HE-90 preference base on audition of the HE-1 & HE-90 on separate occasion or the same time?


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Glad to see big daddy Stax finally coming out with something new and TOP OF THE LINE. No more sidegrades like the 009S or some black paint job (009 BK). I have no doubts about the technical superiority of this new headphone, the only thing that can hold it back VS the other options in the market is how much Stax messed up the voicing/timbre/frequency response. Will try to hear one ASAP.


----------



## number1sixerfan

ToroFiestaSol said:


> Glad to see big daddy Stax finally coming out with something new and TOP OF THE LINE. No more sidegrades like the 009S or some black paint job (009 BK). I have no doubts about the technical superiority of this new headphone, the only thing that can hold it back VS the other options in the market is how much Stax messed up the voicing/timbre/frequency response. Will try to hear one ASAP.



I agree. It's been a long time coming. It will be really interesting to see how these will shake out timbre wise. It gives me some confidence that it sounds like the 009S is the foundation, as I'm just hoping for more advanced performance but with the same clarity/transparency/detail and general tone of the 009 (non-s)--except again for the issues in the highs, which I'm not certain that the 009S corrects for (haven't heard it, but heard that it does to a degree). I'm really hoping there isn't a major deviation from the current signature.


----------



## musicman59

amsync said:


> Headamp and STAX now are both listing the cans at $6200 USD for USA buyers not the $5800 from earlier in the day. Weirdly I actually confirmed the price with Justin earlier because I thought it was odd and he specifically confirmed that 5800 was right.
> 
> Either a mistake was made with the original launch (in that case congrats to those that jumped already but poor execution of the launch) or they held a (secret???) sale for the first day? If its the latter that really is not sitting right with me. It's one thing to run a temporary sale for folks that want to support the launch but then why not advertise it? You'd want to make sure as many people jump on it as possible.
> 
> Edit: apparently the initial price was not the correct USA price, so it seems the go forward price in the US will be $6200..


$400 usd price difference overnight is significant. At the $6,200 price now I am not
that sure to go for it as I was at $5,800 😞.

Will wait for reviews/opinions and then I will reconsider it….


----------



## juwa

In Germany, the official price for the sr-x9000 is exactly € 7,250. Confirmed by the dealer. Converted to US dollars, that's $ 8,500.


----------



## Lord Rexter

musicman59 said:


> $400 usd price difference overnight is significant. At the $6,200 price now I am not
> that sure to go for it as I was at $5,800 😞.
> 
> Will wait for reviews/opinions and then I will reconsider it….


Come tomorrow it would $6,600 at this rate, that is around $800 in just 2 days...this raises a question in my mind so if someone booked at $5,800 then they just saved $400 that's not bad at all I would say 😜

All joking aside hope they don't jack up the price anyone ✌️


----------



## padam

number1sixerfan said:


> I agree. It's been a long time coming. It will be really interesting to see how these will shake out timbre wise. It gives me some confidence that it sounds like the 009S is the foundation, as I'm just hoping for more advanced performance but with the same clarity/transparency/detail and general tone of the 009 (non-s)--except again for the issues in the highs, which I'm not certain that the 009S corrects for (haven't heard it, but heard that it does to a degree). I'm really hoping there isn't a major deviation from the current signature.


A differently sized, physically bigger transducer with different mesh stators using new manufacturing technologies like thermal bonding should give different sonic properties, so I would be surprised if it sounded similar.

Around 2017-2018, Stax had bought back at least two SR-Omegas, which are sitting at their headquarters. They might have a few more, might give a clue about the basis for construction and tuning, at least that's what I'm hoping / betting on, imho should be between 007 and 009 like the Omega.

Will be interesting to see impressions long-time 009/S users. If it is deemed to be much better, then it also puts past opinions into a different limelight.

It was the same with the 007 users switching to / adding in the 009 (and possibly switching back again) slightly different synergistic matches might provide some variables.


----------



## ThanatosVI

juwa said:


> In Germany, the official price for the sr-x9000 is exactly € 7,250. Confirmed by the dealer. Converted to US dollars, that's $ 8,500.


Ok Stax is dead to me then.


----------



## amsync

ThanatosVI said:


> Ok Stax is dead to me then.


To be fair I am not sure that is Stax fault. Having lived on both hemispheres I know how much the EU wants their share. I am almost certain that the difference with US/Japan is all taxes. If I still lived in the EU I'd figure a way to get a buddy in the US to buy them for me if you have the option. I've had to do that with so many other things before. It's the same with everything from cars to clothes.



Lord Rexter said:


> Come tomorrow it would $6,600 at this rate, that is around $800 in just 2 days...this raises a question in my mind so if someone booked at $5,800 then they just saved $400 that's not bad at all I would say 😜
> 
> All joking aside hope they don't jack up the price anyone ✌️


From Justin I personally really didn't get the idea that this was intentional and/or that it will be followed by any movements in price. I think someone just really goofed up on the conversion on the first day.


----------



## DJJEZ

ThanatosVI said:


> Ok Stax is dead to me then.


Import it from USA and get the seller to write a low amount to minimise import duty


----------



## ThanatosVI

amsync said:


> To be fair I am not sure that is Stax fault. Having lived on both hemispheres I know how much the EU wants their share. I am almost certain that the difference with US/Japan is all taxes. If I still lived in the EU I'd figure a way to get a buddy in the US to buy them for me if you have the option. I've had to do that with so many other things before. It's the same with everything from cars to clothes.
> 
> 
> From Justin I personally really didn't get the idea that this was intentional and/or that it will be followed by any movements in price. I think someone just really goofed up on the conversion on the first day.


Yeah it's always hard to tell if the fault lies with the manufacturer or distributor,  but a 37% increase is way way more than necessary and from a customer perspective doesn't make any sense to pay.

Of course this Problem isn't unique to Stax but companies like Meze or DCA Show that it can also be solved otherwise. 


DJJEZ said:


> Import it from USA and get the seller to write a low amount to minimise import duty


Always a possibility but very annoying and risky in case of warranty need.
If something happens I have to Ship it around the World on my own costs.


----------



## asdafaasda

They were obviously making a profit and fine at $5800 so contacting them to ask for that old price wouldn't hurt.


----------



## number1sixerfan

padam said:


> A differently sized, physically bigger transducer with different mesh stators using new manufacturing technologies like thermal bonding should give different sonic properties, so I would be surprised if it sounded similar.
> 
> Around 2017-2018, Stax had bought back at least two SR-Omegas, which are sitting at their headquarters. They might have a few more, might give a clue about the basis for construction and tuning, at least that's what I'm hoping / betting on, imho should be between 007 and 009 like the Omega.
> 
> ...



Actually, I think I have it totally wrong. Could only skim the article the first time while at work. When I originally read this line, "In 2011, we released SR-009, which is the foundation of the current flagship model.", I thought they were referring to the new sr-x9000. Re-reading, I'm pretty sure they're referring to the 009S. 

In any event, I'm still pretty excited and I guess we just won't know until we know.


----------



## Audio Addict

ThanatosVI said:


> Yeah it's always hard to tell if the fault lies with the manufacturer or distributor,  but a 37% increase is way way more than necessary and from a customer perspective doesn't make any sense to pay.
> 
> Of course this Problem isn't unique to Stax but companies like Meze or DCA Show that it can also be solved otherwise.
> 
> ...


The price in the US would be before sales tax.  While not all dealers have to collect it based on the recent US Supreme Court most have to these days.  That will add cost.  The question for the EU is that with or without the VAT.  

The other issue is the various trade agreement.  I suspect there could be a difference between US / Japan and Germany / Japan.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Audio Addict said:


> The price in the US would be before sales tax.  While not all dealers have to collect it based on the recent US Supreme Court most have to these days.  That will add cost.  The question for the EU is that with or without the VAT.
> 
> The other issue is the various trade agreement.  I suspect there could be a difference between US / Japan and Germany / Japan.


I hope that this is already with VAT for EU.
Even if you remove it we look still at a ~15% increase though.

Trade agreements of course all play a role here. Greed might not be the only reason for this. 

Still, it is a very unsatisfying Situation


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

number1sixerfan said:


> I agree. It's been a long time coming. It will be really interesting to see how these will shake out timbre wise. It gives me some confidence that it sounds like the 009S is the foundation, as I'm just hoping for more advanced performance but with the same clarity/transparency/detail and general tone of the 009 (non-s)--except again for the issues in the highs, which I'm not certain that the 009S corrects for (haven't heard it, but heard that it does to a degree). I'm really hoping there isn't a major deviation from the current signature.



No 1-2khz bump, SR-007 MK1 timbre and smoothness with better resolution than the 009S would be legit god tier, IMHO.


----------



## padam

ToroFiestaSol said:


> No 1-2khz bump, SR-007 MK1 timbre and smoothness with better resolution than the 009S would be legit god tier, IMHO.


SR-Omega god tier confirmed  but to be honest, this sound still has its own set of drawbacks, there is always going to be a trade-off.


----------



## number1sixerfan

ToroFiestaSol said:


> No 1-2khz bump, SR-007 MK1 timbre and smoothness with better resolution than the 009S would be legit god tier, IMHO.



I fully agree. I'm just doubtful you can have the MK1's timbre/smoothness w/better resolution than the 009/S. Almost all of the most detailed and transparent headphones trend more towards the brighter/neutral side of things. That said, I've not heard the original Omegas and again I agree with you, if that happens I'm all for it.


----------



## Symbiose

Does someone here already heard MSB Select Headphone Amplifier and could compare with others amplifiers for electrostatic headphone?


----------



## Mach3

number1sixerfan said:


> I fully agree. I'm just doubtful you can have the MK1's timbre/smoothness w/better resolution than the 009/S. Almost all of the most detailed and transparent headphones trend more towards the brighter/neutral side of things. That said, I've not heard the original Omegas and again I agree with you, if that happens I'm all for it.


I have the original SR-Ω and they don't sound bright at all. But the resolution exceeds the 009 series. Also, the majority people must haven't been keeping track of prices of the original SR-Ω recently. As they've been fetch north of 6k (not good condition) 8k plus for decent condition unit. So the pricing for the X9000 is pretty fair.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Sep 17, 2021)

Mach3 said:


> I have the original SR-Ω and they don't sound bright at all. But the resolution exceeds the 009 series.



Yea, that's why I included 'neutral' there as well. I haven't heard anyone mention them as bright, but also haven't seen them described *as warm as* (or dark as many say) and syrupy smooth as the 007 is described (fyi, keep in mind I actually love the 007). Would definitely like to know your thoughts there if you've heard both*. Anyways, I've always wanted to own a pair, but it was just so hard to find them.


----------



## musicman59

A few years back I had the opportunity to demo de MSB Select DAC/Electrostatic Amplifier combo with the SR-009.

The sound was amazing. The best I have heard at the point but it is a $130k or so combo. Later I had also the opportunity to demo the Sennheiser HE-1 with a DAVE and it also sounded amazing for about $40k less.

I think at that level you are splitting hairs in the quality bod the sound and really becomes more of a preference on the sound signature.


----------



## arnaud

ThanatosVI said:


> Ok Stax is dead to me then.



good that you weren’t around before edifier era, I recall 2x price distortion between Japan and overseas!

20% uplift from the us distributor seems inevitable given the large possibility these hand-made headphones need to be shipped back and forth from Japan for servicing (I don’t wish the same fate for the 9000 but the 009 initial shipments produced doa etc, there are still people getting sudden dreaded channel imbalance these days).


----------



## padam

number1sixerfan said:


> Yea, that's why I included 'neutral' there as well. I haven't heard anyone mention them as bright, but also haven't seen them described *as warm as* (or dark as many say) and syrupy smooth as the 007 is described (fyi, keep in mind I actually love the 007). Would definitely like to know your thoughts there if you've heard both*. Anyways, I've always wanted to own a pair, but it was just so hard to find them.


They have less bass and more treble but the overall tone and voicing is just as smooth as a 007.
That's exactly the weakness as well: feeling too bland at times. As I wrote, "perfect" sound simply does not exist and it is just a question of which "imperfect" sound the user is satisfied with the most, and of course the right amplification might also exploit the maximum out of it.


----------



## number1sixerfan

padam said:


> They have less bass and more treble but the overall tone and voicing is just as smooth as a 007.
> That's exactly the weakness as well: feeling too bland at times. As I wrote, "perfect" sound simply does not exist and it is just a question of which "imperfect" sound the user is satisfied with the most, and of course the right amplification might also exploit the maximum out of it.



Really appreciate the explanation here. That also aligns with much of what I've read. Seems like a good balance between the strengths of the 009 and 007. I'd absolutely be here for it if the new offering is along the same lines.

Also, cannot agree more with the last statement. There is no such thing, just depends on how close to perfection we can get.


----------



## nagi8404

Well imported products are always more expensive. On the other side foreign brands are 20-30% more expensive in Japan. Chord's DAVE for example retails for 1.6 million JPY (~$14.5k) in Japan. I'm envious of NA prices. The new stax is 700k JPY in Japan and HeadAmp's listing price is close to the current exchange rate


----------



## ToroFiestaSol (Sep 18, 2021)

number1sixerfan said:


> I fully agree. I'm just doubtful you can have the MK1's timbre/smoothness w/better resolution than the 009/S. Almost all of the most detailed and transparent headphones trend more towards the brighter/neutral side of things. That said, I've not heard the original Omegas and again I agree with you, if that happens I'm all for it.



The sad thing is that it is possible, but I'm sure it won't happen. IMO, someone needs to gift Stax with proper equipment, something among the lines of a BHSE and a Rockna DAC, so they can voice their headphones properly. IMO, it's impossible that they can voice somethig right with their amps and a Luxman SACD player (I'm pretty sure that combo's bland, drowned in mud, inferior lo fi sound exmplains the brightness and 1-2khz bump of their headphone designs despite their technical superiority). 

@padam I'm also pretty sure that's why most people prefers the Omega and describes it as perfectly voiced despite being the older headphone, it was developed side by side with the T2 and their DAC X1T, which is true TOTL equipment and a whole different ball game compared to what they are currently using.


----------



## padam

ToroFiestaSol said:


> @padam I'm also pretty sure that's why most people prefers the Omega and describes it as perfectly voiced despite being the older headphone, it was developed side by side with the T2 and their DAC X1T, which is true TOTL equipment and a whole different ball game compared to what they are currently using.


It wasn't developed alongside the T2, they had the T1 and they've made the T1S with balanced outputs when it came out. The T2 came during the middle of the production and discontinued earlier than the Omega (T1W came towards the end).


----------



## lsantista

Yes, when the gentlemen from Stax said at the video something in the lines of “now we have a phone that lives up to the potential of the T8000”, that was a not exactly the selling point I was hoping to hear..

(I’d still like to hear the t8000 though)


----------



## lsantista (Sep 18, 2021)

I was actually optimistic they would announce a srm-t9000x or similar so, but that statement made ir less likely in the short term at least


----------



## Trance_Gott (Sep 18, 2021)

I bet X9000 would not be the bass wonder we hope. Long live the SR007 MK2 bass port mod.
Edifier has not the money to produce a gamechanger imo.


----------



## arnaud

ToroFiestaSol said:


> The sad thing is that it is possible, but I'm sure it won't happen. IMO, someone needs to gift Stax with proper equipment, something among the lines of a BHSE and a Rockna DAC, so they can voice their headphones properly. IMO, it's impossible that they can voice somethig right with their amps and a Luxman SACD player (I'm pretty sure that combo's bland, drowned in mud, inferior lo fi sound exmplains the brightness and 1-2khz bump of their headphone designs despite their technical superiority).
> 
> @padam I'm also pretty sure that's why most people prefers the Omega and describes it as perfectly voiced despite being the older headphone, it was developed side by side with the T2 and their DAC X1T, which is true TOTL equipment and a whole different ball game compared to what they are currently using.



I think they use accuphase player these days and the age of the ears making final decision is probably orders of magnitude more influential than the actual brand of cd player used upstream. In my understanding (and visible in the interviews) stax today isn’t exactly stax of 2010.



Trance_Gott said:


> I bet X9000 would not be the bass wonder we hope. Long live the SR007 MK2 bass port mod.
> Edifier has not the money to produce a gamechanger imo.



you must be joking about edifier, they certainly have more cash than most boutique headphone makers out there!


----------



## Tugbars (Sep 18, 2021)

Trance_Gott said:


> I bet X9000 would not be the bass wonder we hope. Long live the SR007 MK2 bass port mod.
> Edifier has not the money to produce a gamechanger imo.


the reason why 007 sounds so powerful in bass range is because their midrange is recessed. Relatively there's too much bass power compared to the frequency areas where human hearing is most sensitive(2-3k). Such sound sig. shifts spectral balance towards low-mids and bass. Our ears pick more detail & differences there. LCD-4 does the same trick. Basically 007's bass exists because they can't really deliver proper ear resonance compensation in the midrange.


----------



## greenhorn

shabta said:


> HE-90





> greenhorn said:
> The best one being…?


HE-90

—-
I believe you. I once had the opportunity to listen to the HE-90 and I doubt anyone could ever make a headphone better than it. It was simply in the stratosphere.

Not even Sennheiser with that bling bling retractable tubes amp… at 50000€ the system 😁


----------



## eee1111

I desperately need the 9000 here with me. lol


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

padam said:


> It wasn't developed alongside the T2, they had the T1 and they've made the T1S with balanced outputs when it came out. The T2 came during the middle of the production and discontinued earlier than the Omega (T1W came towards the end).



Thanks for the correction! Still, it is around the same time line. There's also the possibility of silent revisions, I wouldn't be surprised if they "tweaked" the Omega once they heard it with the T2. Still, would be very, very difficult to know due to unit to unit variations and the Omega being such a rare, vintage item.



arnaud said:


> I think they use accuphase player these days and the age of the ears making final decision is probably orders of magnitude more influential than the actual brand of cd player used upstream. In my understanding (and visible in the interviews) stax today isn’t exactly stax of 2010.



Nice to know! Btw, I've been out of headphones for a couple of years, do you know if Stax did a silent revision of the 009 and the 007 in the last 2-3 years? I mean, if the new units sound different to the old ones, like the "007 MK2.9" sounds different from the "007 MK2.5" (despite the official model name being "007 MK2"). The source change (Luxman to Accuphase) may explain the sound change (if it happened, of course).

I know for sure that the new headphone will be technically better than everything else available in the market, I'm just unsure about how much they will mess up the tonality due to their tastes and weird sources/mediocre amps.


----------



## walakalulu

nagi8404 said:


> Well imported products are always more expensive. On the other side foreign brands are 20-30% more expensive in Japan. Chord's DAVE for example retails for 1.6 million JPY (~$14.5k) in Japan. I'm envious of NA prices. The new stax is 700k JPY in Japan and HeadAmp's listing price is close to the current exchange rate


UK price seems to be £5395.


----------



## ThanatosVI

walakalulu said:


> UK price seems to be £5395.


That's surprisingly cheap


----------



## VandyMan

Trance_Gott said:


> I bet X9000 would not be the bass wonder we hope. Long live the SR007 MK2 bass port mod.
> Edifier has not the money to produce a gamechanger imo.


Edifier is an 1.7 billion USD company.


----------



## greenhorn (Sep 18, 2021)

In 2005 Meier Audio managed somehow to offer for sale a very limited number of Sennheiser Orpheus HE-90.

The price was 4100€.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/he-90s-are-almost-here.135196/#post-1591002


----------



## tumpux

It’s amazing to see people projecting their expectations in an object that still not be out yet.. 😀😀😀

Carry on folks.


----------



## ThanatosVI

greenhorn said:


> In 2005 Meier Audio managed somehow to offer for sale a very limited number of Sennheiser Orpheus HE-90.
> 
> The price was 4100€.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/he-90s-are-almost-here.135196/#post-1591002


What was the price of the HEV-90?


----------



## padam

ThanatosVI said:


> What was the price of the HEV-90?


It was sold as a set only, US price here (and it was possible to buy an additional headphone with a set, you can subtract that price to have an idea about the amp's value)

For anyone who got the HE90 from that late group buy, it was also possible to purchase the HeadAmp Aristaeus, a variation of the HEV90 (still available today)


----------



## eee1111

tumpux said:


> It’s amazing to see people projecting their expectations in an object that still not be out yet.. 😀😀😀
> 
> Carry on folks.


its out in my mind and I want one


----------



## ThanatosVI

padam said:


> It was sold as a set only, US price here (and it was possible to buy an additional headphone with a set, you can subtract that price to have an idea about the amp's value)
> 
> For anyone who got the HE90 from that late group buy, it was also possible to purchase the HeadAmp Aristaeus, a variation of the HEV90 (still available today)


Thank you


----------



## number1sixerfan

tumpux said:


> It’s amazing to see people projecting their expectations in an object that still not be out yet.. 😀😀😀
> 
> Carry on folks.



That's the purpose of product launch announcements. The excitement and the build up is a part of the fun.  

But seriously, I think there's a ton of anxious speculation and expectation because Stax hasn't had a net new TOTL offering in what feels like forever.


----------



## lsantista

I know you are not counting the "revision" of 009, the "S version". I may be mistaken but by then (2018), it did feel like a new TOTL and is still touted everywhere as new flagship today. That was just 3 years ago.. actually quite small window for a new TOTL release IMHO


----------



## number1sixerfan (Sep 18, 2021)

lsantista said:


> I know you are not counting the "revision" of 009, the "S version". I may be mistaken but by then (2018), it did feel like a new TOTL and is still touted everywhere as new flagship today. That was just 3 years ago.. actually quite small window for a new TOTL release IMHO



The head-fier I bought my 009 from had both it and the 009s. He mentioned that the differences were so subtle that he was selling and keeping either of them based on the buyer's preference. So no personally, I don't consider it a "new" TOTL release, even though it could be better or improved. I do wish I could hear it, but purchasing it always just seemed silly. But certainly it is Stax's current flagship, no argument there.

Also, I just couldn't refrain or help myself. I've ordered the SR-X9000. Can't wait.


----------



## greenhorn

ThanatosVI said:


> What was the price of the HEV-90?


« 
Quote:


Originally Posted by Trogdor
_Hey GROD, how much did you pay if you don't mind me asking? (just curious)_
The price for the HE-90's, including world-wide shipping, outside the European Community, was 4100 Euros or $4920 USD.

For additional information, see Dr. Meier's thread entitled "Meier Audio: My Request to Sennheiser regarding the Orpheus," especially the 5th Post, in the Member of the Trade Sponsored Threads forum.

GRod »


----------



## tumpux

I also think that 009S is more like HD800S. A refinement of an existing flagship product.

For some of us X9000 could be the last Stax flagship launch that we’ll ever see.


----------



## elton7033

tumpux said:


> I also think that 009S is more like HD800S. A refinement of an existing flagship product.
> 
> For some of us X9000 could be the last Stax flagship launch that we’ll ever see.


why is that? as long as people are buying these stuff they will keep on making new product to get our money?


----------



## tumpux

tiiiiny market and high r&d budget to come up with something that really better than their previous offerings. 
Just because Edifier think of them as a cute pet project now, doesn’t mean that they get an unlimited budget to develop their next flagship product. 
.
.
.



unless they go hifiman.


----------



## KDS315

padam said:


> They have less bass and more treble but the overall tone and voicing is just as smooth as a 007.
> That's exactly the weakness as well: feeling too bland at times. As I wrote, "perfect" sound simply does not exist and it is just a question of which "imperfect" sound the user is satisfied with the most, and of course the right amplification might also exploit the maximum out of it.


Why not then use some advanced DSP to EQ a headphone to a normalized standard like the Harman curve? I use ROONs convolver and ORATORY1990’s for that for my Staxes and am quite happy with the results...


----------



## padam (Sep 19, 2021)

KDS315 said:


> Why not then use some advanced DSP to EQ a headphone to a normalized standard like the Harman curve? I use ROONs convolver and ORATORY1990’s for that for my Staxes and am quite happy with the results...


It is a curve made by someone else, I guess it may work for some people... Tested A-B with the gain lowered without EQ with the Lambda Pro (tried the ED-1 and Harman as well) and it clearly sounded worse to me. Same with the SR-009, didn't improve any of the things I wanted to improve on.
Not that surprised to be honest, only simple and gentle EQ works for me in some cases to lower high-frequency noise, etc. the more applied, the more it shows.
The Smyth Realiser also works (especially for movies) because it takes individual attributes into account. But for music, not quite the same as without it.


----------



## dynavit

tumpux said:


> I also think that 009S is more like HD800S. A refinement of an existing flagship product.
> 
> For some of us X9000 could be the last Stax flagship launch that we’ll ever see.


Funny thing is, that those „refinements“ don`t have to be a real step further on. 
Look here: https://www.open-end-music.com/foru...ker-800serie-im-rueckblick-am-paltauf-hpa-100


----------



## NOMOS

Today I looked at measurements of the SR Omega compared
 to Stax 009 and Senn HE90 .One thing I'm almost sure. We 
can get up a fantastic Bass of the new SR 9000 is looking forward to ,
if Stax maintains the Bass strength of the Omega .


----------



## lsantista

what measurements did you use to compare? I know the more popular sites for this, but no idea what is the most accurate of them for eletrostats in general


----------



## dynavit

NOMOS said:


> Today I looked at measurements of the SR Omega compared
> to Stax 009 and Senn HE90 .One thing I'm almost sure. We
> can get up a fantastic Bass of the new SR 9000 is looking forward to ,
> if Stax maintains the Bass strength of the Omega .


20% plus surface should make a difference in (especially deep-)bass performance. Let`s see how the rest performs.


----------



## NOMOS

Yes , I am also very interested in the first audio Reports and Measurements . 
The X9000 is the most interesting Headphones for me personally this year 😃


----------



## NOMOS

lsantista said:


> what measurements did you use to compare? I know the more popular sites for this, but no idea what is the most accurate of them for eletrostats in general


Hallo Isantista .

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ket-for-stax-galaxy-the-stax-compendium.1976/

Audiophile Greetings  , Nomos


----------



## dynavit (Sep 19, 2021)

Many thanks for this link! Didn`t know this one. I allways was looking here: https://www.inexxon.com/stax-modelle/stax-kopfhörer/

These are the elektrostats I own: Stax 009, 007 mk1, 4070, 507, SR 404 LE, 404, 300LE, Nova Signature, Signature, Lambda Pro, Sigma Pro, Lambda Normal, SR-5 Gold, SRX Mark 3, SR-3, Dan Clark VOCE, Sennheiser HE60; 

So this is why I am interested in  measurments and opinions of other people especially the older models.


----------



## Mach3

Yeah the SR-Ω don't like bass eq. It overloads if you bump the bass up and overdrive them/ loud volume, due to the sheer size of the stator (not rigid enough). The rest was great, silky smooth neutral and pretty much most speaker like ear speaker. Hopefully Stax address the short fall with the new tech used to make the X9000 and keep all the good stuff SR-Ω. Then it would be a absolute stellar of flagship.


----------



## elton7033

tumpux said:


> tiiiiny market and high r&d budget to come up with something that really better than their previous offerings.
> Just because Edifier think of them as a cute pet project now, doesn’t mean that they get an unlimited budget to develop their next flagship product.
> .
> .
> ...


This all depends on the up coming X9000 sells isnt it, but looking at this forume we can see a lot of potential buyer and thanks for more dealer around the world, we can see Stax flagship price aint rocketing skyhigh like when the 009 first launch.


----------



## lsantista

Hi Elton, you just made me curious to see the price of SR009 at its release in early 2011. I wasn't into the hi-fi world back then although already a stax fan.
So it cost US$5250 then; it turns out that simply adjusting for inflation you get... $6355 tp $6427 depending on the exact month you choose (below). One could argue adjusting electronics for CPI is not the best approach as they tend to get cheaper over time. Indeed that may be the case, although the fact many of us have been complainning of how TOTL prices have gone up lately should at least put that assumption into question). But the purchasing power required to get you their new flagship  (to be sure, now Im talking X9000) is nonetheless about the same (even a little less) than that of 10 years ago.  




source: bls.gov
for 009 price at launch:
https://headfonics.com/the-ultimate-stax-is-out-the-sr-009/


----------



## lsantista

Back then in 2011-12, the 007-mkII cost $2650. so a new pair went down about 20% in price in 10 years, whereas the 009, about 30%. It also goes to show what a bargain a used 009 is at half its original price from just a decade ago


----------



## tumpux

It’s hard to gauge potential sales from enthusiasm level on forum like this. It’s more like an echo chamber where everything is amplified. 

Not everyone that posts here everyday has enough fund to buy the X9000 at the launch period. Some of the ones who got the fund will wait for favorable reviews and comparisons from esteemed figures such as the baker. Some will wait for X9000 to appear on the secondary market. Some will wait for the price drop. Some will go for auditions and decided that it is not four times better than 007. 

I dont say that X9000 will fail, I really want it to be a hit so we will see more in the future but if we look at the r&d budget that they have to spend to develop X9000 and the potential sales of X9000, for a small company such as Stax the possibility to develop another flagship product without financial backing would be small. 

Even if we see X9000 as the flagship product that will bring halo effect to the rest of their product line, I dont see any enthusiasm (at least on this forum) for Stax’s more affordable line. At least for the current offering. But who knows, maybe they have something new to offer later.


----------



## catscratch

It's hard to be enthusiastic about a $6200 headphone most will never afford, from a company with a recent track record of releasing obsolescent designs at increasingly bloated prices. And the loss of enthusiasm isn't recent. When you release the T8000 at $6k, then re-release the 007t and 717 at $3400... yeah, the enthusiasm disappeared a while ago.

But who knows, maybe this will be great. Put me in the "wait and see" column, with a healthy sprinkling of skepticism.


----------



## elton7033 (Sep 20, 2021)

lsantista said:


> Back then in 2011-12, the 007-mkII cost $2650. so a new pair went down about 20% in price in 10 years, whereas the 009, about 30%. It also goes to show what a bargain a used 009 is at half its original price from just a decade ago


I totally agree on its sad to open a post and try to sell my 009 at half of its msrp but again I am one of those who cannot afford the full 6200usd price for the sr-x900 under Covid.
The 007mk1 actually retain value much better than 009 which is sort of miracle.


----------



## eee1111 (Sep 20, 2021)

tumpux said:


> It’s hard to gauge potential sales from enthusiasm level on forum like this. It’s more like an echo chamber where everything is amplified.
> 
> Not everyone that posts here everyday has enough fund to buy the X9000 at the launch period. Some of the ones who got the fund will wait for favorable reviews and comparisons from esteemed figures such as the baker. Some will wait for X9000 to appear on the secondary market. Some will wait for the price drop. Some will go for auditions and decided that it is not four times better than 007.
> 
> ...


Getting something new other than the 009 is good news. All we need now is impressions.

And I wouldn’t call them a tiny company. They were bought out and there is definitely money backing the company.

And…the lambdas are pretty good as a bunch of people are very happy with them


----------



## KDS315

Still (also) using my 20-30y old Lambdas and still top!!


----------



## AudioCats (Sep 21, 2021)

I have done a little srm-313 modding lately. It seems that the 313 can be brought up to the (stock) 007t level performance rather easily.

mod details are in the DIY seciton.

test phones=sr007
the stock srm-007t has "no brand" tubes (only visible marking is " 6CG7, 6FQ7, USA", I think these might be the stock tubes provided by Stax with the amp).

** 313 early verison, stage-b (Vishay VAR in shunt volume control; TL431 as D4, 4mA output bias): more transparent, more "live", more bite but no glare; smaller stage, more bass but maybe not going as deep;
** 007t: more open sound, wider stage; richer sound but has glare/irritation; back ground not as clean;
bass quality/texture is about the same in both amps.
overall I'd rate they at about the same level, different presentations.






parts cost for a 313 stage-B mod:
vishay VAR z-foil resistors, 22k to 33k, ~$18 each, needs 2 (from partsconnexion)
R25 change to 330k 1w, PRP, ~$1 each, needs 2 (partsconnexion)
D4 change to precision voltage reference, 2.5v, needs 2.
           (  There are many 2.5v reference devices available, I will test more to see if there is a clear winner, but just the plain TL431 is already much better than a LED. 1% TL431 is ~$1 each.)
heatsink-improvement related: ~$10 (two aluminum L brackets, screws and bolts, thermal compound).
while you are at it, might as well replace the electrolytic power capacitors, they are probably 20 years old by now.


----------



## KDS315

Really, THAT simple mod provides that much?? I also have an older 313 which I brought back to life, sounds not bad but compared to a SRM-T1 (CCS/ECC99 mod) THAT blows the 313 out of the water easily... No way a 313 can drive a 007 successfully


----------



## AudioCats

KDS315 said:


> Really, THAT simple mod provides that much?? I also have an older 313 which I brought back to life, sounds not bad but compared to a SRM-T1 (CCS/ECC99 mod) THAT blows the 313 out of the water easily... No way a 313 can drive a 007 successfully



my impression of the stock 313 (driving 007), see if it agrees with your impression:
"before the mod, listened to the 313's in stock condition. Both sounded about the same, closed-in (kind of cluster-phobic), with some abrasiveness ("mid-range-burn", wants to fry the brain)."

the mod above has 3 components:
1) shunt volume control, using vishay z foil as input resistors. This opens up the sound stage, and solves the "mid range burn" problem. 
2) upping the final (current buffer) stage bias to 4mA, increase the available reserve for output current. The stock amp has about 2mA bias, upping it to 4mA triples the available reserve (at max swing about 1mA is used in the feedback, so the available current left for output is 1mA stock and 3mA modded). This opens up the sound stage further and helps bass control. 
3) (if used) precision voltage reference improves the transparency. Otherwise the sound is kind of thick.

the 313 final stage is a current booster with CCS, 3mA from that stage should be more effective than a stock T1 (which runs at about 5mA but has plate resistor in output stage). 007t uses one tube per line but the total plate current is not much higher at about 7~8mA, also with plate resistor not CCS. Your T1 has CCS at output and probably runs higher current than a stock T1, of course it will have a lot more bass control than a stock 313.
I was not surprised that the 3mA juice from modded 313 gave about the same degree of bass control as the stock 007t. 

on the other hand, I am sure once the shunt-volume-control is done to the 007t it will win hands down. 
This 313 mod have some practical value for someone ( who already have the amp) in a location where Stax stuff is not easily available. Otherwise it is more convenient to just get a 007t from Japan and use as-is. (007t can be had for about $550 from yahoo.JP via Buyee, or about $700 off ebay)


somehow my ESP950 didn't sound that great with the modded 313, the sr007 was much better, I was surprised. I was expecting lesser differences since the amp is just a mid-grade Stax after all.


----------



## KDS315

Getting a higher "bias current" for the 313 certainly enhances its SQ if this is safe for the component ratings.
Certainly sounds like an interesting mod....

My T1 has massively gained from CCS plus ECC99 tubes!


----------



## elton7033 (Sep 22, 2021)

Some photo I found on internet (Twitter japan) of the new SR-X9000, the dark brown pads looking cool like the 007mk1


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

elton7033 said:


> Some photo I found on internet (Twitter japan) of the new SR-X9000, the dark brown pads looking cool like the 007mk1




LOOK AT THAT!!!!!!

I'M IN UTTER DISBELIEF, BROTHER. SO BEAUTIFUL, PERFECT COLOR SCHEME. NEW OMEGA CONFIRMED.


----------



## zomkung

Is this the defect?


----------



## KDS315

zomkung said:


> Is this the defect?


No it is called OCD 😉


----------



## treebug

KDS315 said:


> No it is called OCD 😉


OCD is understandable at this sort of money!


----------



## elton7033

zomkung said:


> Is this the defect?


Again these are pre-production demo unit which STAX loan for store in Japan for demo, so I would expect the QC standard might be different from the real deal. Not to mention many does not treat it like how we baby them lol
But totally agree on this price point there should be no defect, this pad also looks like its a different material compare to the SR009 series hope it wont flake overtime like the audio technica ones.
Otherwise it might be wise to buy an extra pair of pads just in case when STAX stop making these.


----------



## KDS315

Yep, agree, way too early to judge production quality based on pre-production units etc.
Japanese products are known to always be perfect in every little detail; I guess this
one will be produced in Japan, too...


----------



## zomkung

The new headpad looks like the one from Hifiman.

I have an O2-MK1 with 22 years old and still working fine.


----------



## Symbiose

I will buy the new Stax flagship headphone and would like to pair it with Stax amplifier, which one is better? SRM-700T, SRM-700S or SRM-8000T.

Were I live doesnt have another dealer of electrostatic amplifier, only Stax, because of this I will stick with Stax.


----------



## elton7033 (Sep 22, 2021)

KDS315 said:


> Yep, agree, way too early to judge production quality based on pre-production units etc.
> Japanese products are known to always be perfect in every little detail; I guess this
> one will be produced in Japan, too...


I recall during Fujiya Avic Online Headphone Fest on youtube the STAX guy did mention all STAX product are still manfacture in the same factory in Japan, so I will expect their QC are the same with older ones like 009/S.
And the original Omega QC was much worst than 009 family from what i heard, so the SR-X9000 should really be the first highend flagship which build can match its pricetag. 
I doute how much improvement they can bring compare to the original Omega. The original Omega is more detail than the 009S for sure but still a very picky headphone.


----------



## makan

Symbiose said:


> I will buy the new Stax flagship headphone and would like to pair it with Stax amplifier, which one is better? SRM-700T, SRM-700S or SRM-8000T.
> 
> Were I live doesnt have another dealer of electrostatic amplifier, only Stax, because of this I will stick with Stax.


I think many would recommend that you try to pair it with a Gilmore design amp...aa KGSS, KGSSHV, KGST, grounded grid or Carbon.  These are floating around 2nd hand on headfi or can be commissioned.  Worth the investment...I have the Mjolnir Megatron and Carbon CC, as well as the Cavalli liquid lightning T2 paired with the 009, 007mk1 and es1a


----------



## KDS315 (Sep 22, 2021)

I honestly doubt that STAX would make THAT BIG mistake to need a third market or "mafia" amp to drive their best and most expensive product well. I'm sure they will recommend the SRM-T8000 for it. The current SR-009/009S is quite easy to drive and the X9000 will be too, IMHO. They made that mistake with the 007, which is not easy to drive, but already learned from that mistake and the following 009 was easy to drive, so why should they repeat that old mistake?? Seppuku no one of them wants to commit


----------



## Eich1eeF

KDS315 said:


> I honestly doubt that STAX would make THAT BIG mistake to need a third market or "mafia" amp to drive their best and most expensive product well. I'm sure they will recommend the SRM-T8000 for it. The current SR-009/009S is quite easy to drive and the X9000 will be too, IMHO. They made that mistake with the 007, which is not easy to drive, but already learned from that mistake and the following 009 was easy to drive, so why should they repeat that old mistake?? Seppuku no one of them wants to commit


Needing something better than a STAX amp is one thing, benefiting is another. A Mjölnir Carbon is $1000 less than a T8000, and most certainly better.


----------



## tabness

if i had known theyd release the new Omega so soon id have kept my old one to compare directly lol

however to be honest im not with the look or even the name... X9000? ew lol i get the Omega design cues but i guess i never liked the Omega's look as compared to the 009/S and i hate the split headband

interesting that they market it as a "warm" sound i never bothered with the 007 because "warm" isnt my preference but the Omega did have the most natural tonality maybe this can merge the ultra clarity of the 009/S with the Omega tonality then this could be amazing for me

price isnt as bad as i expected at all (being real we all in crazy land with $1000 for a headphone) i will probably grab it up at launch lol

hope it runs off the 252S as nicely as the Omega did for me (didnt like the Omega with T1S too "warm")


----------



## Mach3

Eich1eeF said:


> Needing something better than a STAX amp is one thing, benefiting is another. A Mjölnir Carbon is $1000 less than a T8000, and most certainly better.


Even the Blue Hawaii SE would be a better option than the T8000.


----------



## Symbiose

makan said:


> I think many would recommend that you try to pair it with a Gilmore design amp...aa KGSS, KGSSHV, KGST, grounded grid or Carbon.  These are floating around 2nd hand on headfi or can be commissioned.  Worth the investment...I have the Mjolnir Megatron and Carbon CC, as well as the Cavalli liquid lightning T2 paired with the 009, 007mk1 and es1a


Seems great amplifiers, I will contact Mjolnir Audio and see if they could do a direct sale, only will be dificult to buy the mjolnir because we are limited by price of imported products here in my country, limited at $3.000 US dolars


----------



## elton7033

Eich1eeF said:


> Needing something better than a STAX amp is one thing, benefiting is another. A Mjölnir Carbon is $1000 less than a T8000, and most certainly better.


Not the CC Version? I though Mjolnir increase price slighty recently for the better TKD volume nob.


----------



## elton7033

tabness said:


> if i had known theyd release the new Omega so soon id have kept my old one to compare directly lol
> 
> however to be honest im not with the look or even the name... X9000? ew lol i get the Omega design cues but i guess i never liked the Omega's look as compared to the 009/S and i hate the split headband
> 
> ...


We all can buy iphone13 pro for 1k, and yeah, I am sure we are sort of insane to pay 6k for a headphone, but the second hand market for these somehow retain value which is not that bad for a hobby. Its all hifi-mans faluts which started this whole sounding good means expensive trend.
252S is enought for the original omega?


----------



## Mach3

Nope the 252S not powerful enough for the Omega. When you start going over 12 it sounds compressed.


----------



## padam

KDS315 said:


> I honestly doubt that STAX would make THAT BIG mistake to need a third market or "mafia" amp to drive their best and most expensive product well. I'm sure they will recommend the SRM-T8000 for it. The current SR-009/009S is quite easy to drive and the X9000 will be too, IMHO. They made that mistake with the 007, which is not easy to drive, but already learned from that mistake and the following 009 was easy to drive, so why should they repeat that old mistake?? Seppuku no one of them wants to commit


It is a not a "mistake", it is a design compromise. The efficiency boost of the SR-009 was achieved by decreasing the membrane to stator gap (supposedly 0.45mm instead of 0.5mm). However, this might have had an effect on some reliability issues as discussed here.
The efficiency of the X9000 is somewhere in between the Omega and the 009.


----------



## HBen

Since the Stax SR-X9000 didn't have its own thread yet and information was spread all over the place I'd gladly invite you all to continue the discussion here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-x9000.959852/


----------



## elton7033 (Sep 23, 2021)

Today the first public demo of the SR-X9000 are held in Tokyo, there are various opinion floating in japanese Twitter.











Let me try to translate a few review.(editing google translate result since I am too tried after work to write everything from starch)
https://umauma2010.hatenablog.com/entry/2021/09/23/183104

The SR-X9000 has a "lush sound", giving the impression that it is softer overall and has a much wider soundstage than previous products. The tuning of the sound so far remains the same compare to the 009/009S, but still the difference is noticeable, where the SR-009S feels much dry and simple . SR-009 and SR-009S are natural with a delicate expression with thick and high resolution, while appealing the sound itself directly to the ear and producing a sharp sound with lines. However, with the SR-X9000, the thickness of the sound is more soft and lush, but the contents are dense since resolution are much higher, taking electrostatic soundstage to another level, adding musical expression and the three-dimensional of the overall sound. I felt like I can feel it leaves reverberation.

What I felt with the SR-X9000 is that, for example, the violin's crisp high-pitched sound is expressed with a margin. SR-009S and SR-009 tend to appeal directly to the limit value of high-pitched sound with the thickness of the sound, but SR-X9000 gives more space than the limit (reverberation) and is lush.

In terms of sound volume, the instruments that are ringing behind the vocals have a clearer sense of separation than the SR-009S and SR-009, and are naturally expressed in places away from the vocals.
In SR-009 and SR-009S, these incidental sounds seem to be almost on the same line as the vocals due to the influence of the thickness of the sound itself, but this time the thickness has been relaxed to reduce the volume of the entire sound. Recognize that you can feel more.




Other opinion on twitter includes:

The STAX SR-X9000 has a good acoustic texture, but the soundstage is not as good as palnars when using a high-end amplifier. Well the amp is too rubbish.
The Sr-X9000 retain good neaturallity and higher resolution in sophisticated sound
I tried listening to STAX SR-X9000 (driver is T8000). The difference from 009S is
・ Not as Heavy
・ Music genre is almighty


----------



## Trance_Gott

No word about bass quantity vs 009/s? I really hope X9000 has more bass because 009/s is too bass shy for me.


----------



## elton7033

See


Trance_Gott said:


> No word about bass quantity vs 009/s? I really hope X9000 has more bass because 009/s is too bass shy for me.


so far people are mentioning it being soft lush and thick but none of them say a single word regarding it bass
Maybe thick and lush already means it have better bass?


----------



## Trance_Gott

elton7033 said:


> See
> 
> so far people are mentioning it being soft lush and thick but none of them say a single word regarding it bass
> Maybe thick and lush already means it have better bass?


Can mean thicker tonality and warmer would be a good sign imo.


----------



## orientexpedite (Sep 23, 2021)

It would be excellent if the x9000 were actually competitive with the SR and HE-1, at a much lower price.

Based on the modest 20% surface area size gain of the x9000 mesh stator, and the fact that the mesh is adhered to a SR-009S-style etched electrode, which covers/obstructs/adheres to 50% of the mesh surface area, it's likely going to be a bit give and take, and the FR is likely to be somewhat challenged, much like Stax' existing offerings.  It does seem that the overall transparency and realism will be improved enough to be immediately noticeable, which is encouraging.  The soundstage improvements are likely to be modest, given the size of the stators.

Why do we need a more complicated 4 layer structure, that is made up of 009S plastic, adhered to SR-Omega style mesh?  Stax believes this is necessary to keep the mesh stator stable, but the Shangri-La and Shangri-La JR mesh stators don't seem to need this.  Stax are emphasizing durability in a mesh stator design, but this comes at the cost of ultimate transparency.

There is always the chance that through careful tuning, Stax will have resolved their FR gremlins of the past 20 years, and we will get a truly competitive, unique, and captivating flagship-level sound reproduction   It certainly looks good, and the ergonomics and weight are right.

If anyone ends up with a loaner, it would be great to A-B with the Shangri-La on the DIY T2 or Megatron


----------



## omega1990

I guess we can't make out about the bass for now. And while I have not heard a t8000, headamp told me that the t8000 is slightly warmer than the Blue Hawaii so take that into consideration. Also the lush tuning has my attention. I love my verite closed for it lush mids. Seems as though there will be a noticeable heavier emotional weight to the notes. Definitely like what I'm reading.


----------



## tabness

elton7033 said:


> We all can buy iphone13 pro for 1k, and yeah, I am sure we are sort of insane to pay 6k for a headphone, but the second hand market for these somehow retain value which is not that bad for a hobby. Its all hifi-mans faluts which started this whole sounding good means expensive trend.
> 252S is enought for the original omega?



252 (actually AIRBOW 253S to be precise) was my favorite amp with the Omega actually. Of course, it is the only time I got a STAX (only the Omega, the L500/009S sounded real good with it even cranked up) to sound like the amp was running out of juice when I cranked up the volume, but for my realistic listening levels (around 70-85 db) it was very nice.

I tried the Omega with the T1S, 353X, and the AIRBOW.

T1S was the clear loser. The Omega had some more bass to it here, but just came off as too dark and muddy sounding. T1S was probably the best amp with L500. 009S sounded good on T1S but also good on the other two amps in a different way (bit more clarity bit less bass).

353X/253S were very close, I'm actually not sure I can call the 253S better than the 353X or if it was just something other than the amp affecting my impression of the sound it was that close. The Omega sounds like others have explained it on these amps though. Great clarity (not 009S level), a beautiful and natural tonality. For classical/orchestral it is really top notch better than any STAX I heard.

I just spent the most time with the Omega listening on the 253S and enjoyed it immensely before a buyer came along.






So I am very excited about this STAX X (yes I will not use that ugly X9000 name lol) maybe bringing the clarity and technicalities of the 009S and the tonality of the Omega.


----------



## number1sixerfan

elton7033 said:


> Today the first public demo of the SR-X9000 are held in Tokyo, there are various opinion floating in japanese Twitter.
> 
> The SR-X9000 has a "lush sound", giving the impression that it is softer overall and has a much wider soundstage than previous products. The tuning of the sound so far remains the same compare to the 009/009S, but still the difference is noticeable, where the SR-009S feels much dry and simple . SR-009 and SR-009S are natural with a delicate expression with thick and high resolution, while appealing the sound itself directly to the ear and producing a sharp sound with lines. However, with the SR-X9000, the thickness of the sound is more soft and lush, but the contents are dense since resolution are much higher, taking electrostatic soundstage to another level, adding musical expression and the three-dimensional of the overall sound. I felt like I can feel it leaves reverberation.
> 
> ...



Based on the above, sounds like it does and doesn't sound like the 009 lol. It actually sounds like the tuning is going to be closer to the SGL Sr based on what I'm reading and impressions I've also seen of the original Omegas. That's not a bad thing at all, but selfishly I wanted something different lol. 

That said, it sounds really promising and like it's going to be much more enjoyable to most* users, as it seems like there may not be treble issues and there may be more weight to the sound. I'm also really interested in how the bass will play out. SGL's bass to my ears is almost identical to the Susvara. I'd absolutely be happy if the x9000 (really hate this model naming lol) could add a bit of quantity here while still maintaining high quality and accuracy. Just haven't met a stat outside of the 007 that does so (albeit with slightly slower and more bloated bass). 

Ultimately, just need to hear them.. can't wait until they get into more people's hands.


----------



## amsync

elton7033 said:


> Today the first public demo of the SR-X9000 are held in Tokyo, there are various opinion floating in japanese Twitter.
> 
> Let me try to translate a few review.(editing google translate result since I am too tried after work to write everything from starch)
> https://umauma2010.hatenablog.com/entry/2021/09/23/183104
> ...


Please know I am very appreciative of you sharing this with us and translating for us English folk. That said, I cannot resist the temptation to use these funny translation parts to come up with my own summary, which is:

When you listen to the X9000 most instruments in your tracks will be ringing, unless they are vocals. Somehow the sound produced has lines that you can feel and they reverberate. What's more, the headphones come with a rubbish amp and this ruins the soundstage, unless you listen to music produced by God himself because those tracks create enough incidental sounds that everything is perfect.

Did I get it right? LOL (just kidding)


----------



## eee1111

amsync said:


> Please know I am very appreciative of you sharing this with us and translating for us English folk. That said, I cannot resist the temptation to use these funny translation parts to come up with my own summary, which is:
> 
> When you listen to the X9000 most instruments in your tracks will be ringing, unless they are vocals. Somehow the sound produced has lines that you can feel and they reverberate. What's more, the headphones come with a rubbish amp and this ruins the soundstage, unless you listen to music produced by God himself because those tracks create enough incidental sounds that everything is perfect.
> 
> Did I get it right? LOL (just kidding)


you should have resisted.


----------



## afgmjkl

Trance_Gott said:


> No word about bass quantity vs 009/s? I really hope X9000 has more bass because 009/s is too bass shy for me.


l've heard these yesterday.
X9000 has more bass qantity than 009S, but not the  007 level.


----------



## Ciggavelli

afgmjkl said:


> l've heard these yesterday.
> X9000 has more bass qantity than 009S, but not the  007 level.


What energizer?


----------



## afgmjkl

Ciggavelli said:


> What energizer?


T8000. Compared them using same energizer.


----------



## musicman59

afgmjkl said:


> l've heard these yesterday.
> X9000 has more bass qantity than 009S, but not the  007 level.


That’s perfect for me! 
I own the SR-009 and also had the SR-007 MkII but sold the 007 because they were a little too dark for me.
These could be it for me!


----------



## Mach3

They should have had an original Omega there for people to compare.


----------



## elton7033

Mach3 said:


> They should have had an original Omega there for people to compare.


Not many people can afford one and even less store will have one in working condition and is generous enough to put it out for demo


----------



## Mach3

Yeah I know, but Stax should have horde a ton of them ages ago. Sad that the company that makes em can't afford them because they have become unobtainium. From your translation so far. It pretty kinda like how the original Omega vs the 009 series. Warmer smoother presentation, super revealing. you find thing in track that you never noticed was there resolution. Also, much wider soundstage, decent concert size not small living room in an apartment.


----------



## padam

Mach3 said:


> Sad that the company that makes em can't afford them because they have become unobtainium.


They have purchased back a few pairs at market value, so they can afford them.
But there is 0 point in hoarding more, if it is not the product they want to sell.


----------



## tumpux

The only reason we’re praising the Omega is because we’re too poor to get one in 1993..


----------



## NOMOS (Sep 24, 2021)

afgmjkl said:


> l've heard these yesterday.
> X9000 has more bass qantity than 009S, but not the  007 level.


That's great news, very promising 😃

I discovered a very nice photo on the internet yesterday .


----------



## zolkis

elton7033 said:


> The SR-X9000 has a "lush sound", giving the impression that it is softer overall and has a much wider soundstage than previous products. The tuning of the sound so far remains the same compare to the 009/009S, but still the difference is noticeable, where the SR-009S feels much dry and simple . SR-009 and SR-009S are natural with a delicate expression with thick and high resolution, while appealing the sound itself directly to the ear and producing a sharp sound with lines. However, with the SR-X9000, the thickness of the sound is more soft and lush, but the contents are dense since resolution are much higher, taking electrostatic soundstage to another level, adding musical expression and the three-dimensional of the overall sound. I felt like I can feel it leaves reverberation.



OK, that is very good direction, addressing the biggest shortcomings of the 009. Soft and lush with more body is exactly the good direction, as opposed to sounding hard and technical. That might imply a neutral treble as well? 
The different front and back air flow might contribute to sounding with more body. Based on the construction, I think the X9000 should have bigger sound stage than the 009, but that also depends on the pads and headband fit, and very much on the energizer, too.
Bass extension could be better than with the 009, even if the impact is similar. The 007 Mk2 had highest bass impact and poorest extension, the 007 Mk1 had good bass impact and extension, the 009 was textbook flat with good extension. 
Sounds like the X9000 might be better than the original SR-Omega, let's see.


----------



## elton7033 (Sep 24, 2021)

Cant resist to tell you all that I ORDERED THE SR-X9000 and its going to arrive on mid October according to my local AD.


----------



## DougD

elton7033 said:


> Cant resist to tell you all that I ORDERED THE SR-X9000 and its going to arrive on mid October accorfding to my local AD.


Excellent. We'll put you down for "Stax SR-X9000 listening impressions", around the end of October. Looking forward to it.


----------



## pofofo

Not meaning to stray from the X9000 talk here, but Im searching for some info about SR-Lambda NB. I really like the sound of them out of my Bottlehead S.E.X., but my ears get really hot and sweaty after a pretty short time. I never have this problem with my Audeze`s (LCD-2 and LCD-2CB). I guess it would get better with velour pads or something, but would that change the sound signature much?


----------



## NOMOS

I would be the real Leather pad of the Signature Series
try . Of course, sound will change easily
but maybe also to the positive , who knows 😉


----------



## elton7033

pofofo said:


> Not meaning to stray from the X9000 talk here, but Im searching for some info about SR-Lambda NB. I really like the sound of them out of my Bottlehead S.E.X., but my ears get really hot and sweaty after a pretty short time. I never have this problem with my Audeze`s (LCD-2 and LCD-2CB). I guess it would get better with velour pads or something, but would that change the sound signature much?


differences texture pads does change the sound a bit but as long as the pads design are similar, you can try to order pads
i cant remember the name of the shop but i am sure they do custom pads for old headphone like 007Mk1 and Sony R10s.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Really bad timing and really bad luck, but it seems the left channel in my BHSE has gone out. Have tried different tubes, all of the cables, each input/headphone output. Same thing. Going to reach out to headamp, but it couldn't happen at a worse time. 

Assuming this won't be resolved soon and I'm quite a ways away from the T2 being completed. If anyone has a Carbon or similar for sale please let me know.


----------



## Audio Addict

number1sixerfan said:


> Really bad timing and really bad luck, but it seems the left channel in my BHSE has gone out. Have tried different tubes, all of the cables, each input/headphone output. Same thing. Going to reach out to headamp, but it couldn't happen at a worse time.
> 
> Assuming this won't be resolved soon and I'm quite a ways away from the T2 being completed. If anyone has a Carbon or similar for sale please let me know.


There was one in the Head-Fi classifieds.


----------



## pofofo

elton7033 said:


> differences texture pads does change the sound a bit but as long as the pads design are similar, you can try to order pads
> i cant remember the name of the shop but i am sure they do custom pads for old headphone like 007Mk1 and Sony R10s.


Yes, Vesper Audio, I ordered custom pads for my other pair of NB, but not the stock dimensions and that kinda ruined the sound sig. But am I the only one who suffers from this with stock pads? It seems that there is very little air coming through the stators which make it kind of stuffed.


----------



## bearFNF (Sep 25, 2021)

number1sixerfan said:


> Really bad timing and really bad luck, but it seems the left channel in my BHSE has gone out. Have tried different tubes, all of the cables, each input/headphone output. Same thing. Going to reach out to headamp, but it couldn't happen at a worse time.
> 
> Assuming this won't be resolved soon and I'm quite a ways away from the T2 being completed. If anyone has a Carbon or similar for sale please let me know.


Ack!! that sucks. Not sure if it would help but did you check the power output fuses?
I r not electrical eng so not sure if the two output fuses would correspond to left and right channel? but couldn't hurt to check??
Then again if it was fuses, why did they blow??
I'm sure someone that would know will chime in soon....


----------



## number1sixerfan

Audio Addict said:


> There was one in the Head-Fi classifieds.



Yea I saw, looks like I just missed it. Thank you though! Also just remembered that I have an old SRM-1/MK2 on hand that had been in storage for a while. Fired it up.. pretty huge difference in performance lol, but  may also just suffer through until the T2 is done, idk.


----------



## buzzlulu

What did the Carbon sell for?  Was it from Birgir?
@number1sixerfan  - who is building your T2?


----------



## dncnexus

buzzlulu said:


> What did the Carbon sell for?  Was it from Birgir?
> @number1sixerfan  - who is building your T2?


I believe it sold for $3600


----------



## number1sixerfan

bearFNF said:


> Ack!! that sucks. Not sure if it would help but did you check the power output fuses?
> I r not electrical eng so not sure if the two output fuses would correspond to left and right channel? but couldn't hurt to check??
> Then again if it was fuses, why did they blow??
> I'm sure someone that would know will chime in soon....



Thank you, I hope it's something as simple as that. I thought I remember reading in the BHSE thread that with the output fuses, it's best to not try and change those.. but I honestly don't know if there's risk. But I'll reach out to Justin directly and go from there. 



buzzlulu said:


> What did the Carbon sell for?  Was it from Birgir?
> @number1sixerfan  - who is building your T2?



Yes, I believe it was. And Kerry over at head-case is building mine.


----------



## buzzlulu

dncnexus said:


> I believe it sold for $3600


A Birgir build - or someone else?


----------



## buzzlulu

number1sixerfan said:


> Thank you, I hope it's something as simple as that. I thought I remember reading in the BHSE thread that with the output fuses, it's best to not try and change those.. but I honestly don't know if there's risk. But I'll reach out to Justin directly and go from there.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I believe it was. And Kerry over at head-case is building mine.


Ah understood.  You placed your order right after mine.  I was at Kerry's apt. over Memorial Day weekend demoing.  I lugged in my Birgir Carbon, Linn Klimax DS, and 009S headphones.  It was quite a listening experience.  My understanding is it should not be that long for these to be completed.


----------



## elton7033

number1sixerfan said:


> Yea I saw, looks like I just missed it. Thank you though! Also just remembered that I have an old SRM-1/MK2 on hand that had been in storage for a while. Fired it up.. pretty huge difference in performance lol, but  may also just suffer through until the T2 is done, idk.


Why dont you just send back your BHSE for repair?


----------



## dncnexus

buzzlulu said:


> A Birgir build - or someone else?


Believe it was a Mjolnir


----------



## dogrelata

BenF said:


> Before you start wasting money on low-end Stax amps, you can juice up your 252S.
> 1) Use this hybrid tube pre-amp to achieve a very enjoyable sound, very similar to how Blue Hawaii sounds (although of course not as able with the technicalities): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32882901310.html
> 2) Use this Linear Power Supply (12v with Talema transformers) to get rid of all the power noise:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000004386010.html
> ...



Apologies for the dumb question - I've got little or no electrical knowledge.  

What would be the purpose of changing the polarity in the LPS, and would it also apply if used with 25*2*S?  From what I can find on Google, reversing polarity can potentially damage equipment, or worse.

Thanks.


----------



## number1sixerfan

elton7033 said:


> Why dont you just send back your BHSE for repair?



Likely what I'll have to do and will.. just assuming it won't be back by the time the CRBN and X9000 get here. But I'll likely just make due.


----------



## dogrelata

dogrelata said:


> Apologies for the dumb question - I've got little or no electrical knowledge.
> 
> What would be the purpose of changing the polarity in the LPS, and would it also apply if used with 25*2*S?  From what I can find on Google, reversing polarity can potentially damage equipment, or worse.
> 
> Thanks.



It's okay, found it out for myself and learned something along the way about Stax energizers!


----------



## arjuna93

tabness said:


> 252 (actually AIRBOW 253S to be precise) was my favorite amp with the Omega actually. Of course, it is the only time I got a STAX (only the Omega, the L500/009S sounded real good with it even cranked up) to sound like the amp was running out of juice when I cranked up the volume, but for my realistic listening levels (around 70-85 db) it was very nice.
> 
> I tried the Omega with the T1S, 353X, and the AIRBOW.
> 
> ...



Airbow SRM-253 is an amazing amp in fact, more so with its pairing PAC-253 power supply.

I wish I had SR-Omega to try with it


----------



## arjuna93

elton7033 said:


> Some photo I found on internet (Twitter japan) of the new SR-X9000, the dark brown pads looking cool like the 007mk1



They look similar to ES-1a


----------



## tabness (Sep 25, 2021)

arjuna93 said:


> Airbow SRM-253 is an amazing amp in fact, more so with its pairing PAC-253 power supply.
> 
> I wish I had SR-Omega to try with it



I remember listening back to back with the 353X, very similar, but something about the 253 lol... Again I cannot be sure the difference was anything except for my own perception, but there's a reason I kept that little guy and sold the others. Plus it has the cute little form factor:






I also am interested in a PAC 253 especially for the new X(9000). I straight up asked Ippinkan if they would make a PAC 253 for US voltage but unfortunately they politely declined. I wish I had gotten in on it when you could buy both new for around $600. The 253S ran me around $550 new itself when I got it a year ago or so.


----------



## yaluen (Sep 25, 2021)

FYI you can run the PAC-253 off 120V with no issues.


----------



## tabness

yaluen said:


> FYI you can run the PAC-253 off 120V with no issues.



could you please walk me through what is being done here? (sorry im dumb lol)


----------



## yaluen

Nothing much, an off-the-shelf switching power supply with some filtering.


----------



## lsantista

number1sixerfan said:


> Yea I saw, looks like I just missed it. Thank you though! Also just remembered that I have an old SRM-1/MK2 on hand that had been in storage for a while. Fired it up.. pretty huge difference in performance lol, but  may also just suffer through until the T2 is done, idk.


Sorry, that was me..  But looking at (yours) bright side, I'd love to at least hear the T2 one day, and even the bhse would be a strech above what I was willing to splurge right now


----------



## elton7033

arjuna93 said:


> They look similar to ES-1a


ES-1A pay homage to the original SR-Omega but have a different technology, where the SR-X9000 is next generation of SR-Omega so yep i think they both are looking good, but I will say the SR-X9000 is slightly more stlyish with the brown leather pads.


----------



## elton7033

So the rumors on SR-X(forget the 9000 since the name sucks) bass continuse to raise questions as more demo happen, many in Twitter agree that the soundstage is about 2X of the 009S but some did claim that although its lush, the 009S are a slighty warmer headphone than the SR-X , if this is the case than we are having something like the 009BK with bigger soundstage but not the massive hole in the 009S bass response.
And one thing to take note here is this demo secession in  Osaka uses an 10k Esoteric DAC the N-05XD which is sort of better than the DAC they uses in previous public demo.


----------



## elton7033 (Sep 26, 2021)

elton7033 said:


> So the rumors on SR-X(forget the 9000 since the name sucks) bass continuse to raise questions as more demo happen, many in Twitter agree that the soundstage is about 2X of the 009S but some did claim that although its lush, the 009S are a slighty warmer headphone than the SR-X , if this is the case than we are having something like the 009BK with bigger soundstage but not the massive hole in the 009S bass response.
> And one thing to take note here is this demo secession in  Osaka uses an 10k Esoteric DAC the N-05XD which is sort of better than the DAC they uses in previous public demo.


On the other hand reading about SR-X soundstage makes me abit concern as if the soundstage really 2X as big as the 009 then we are looking at HD800 level? which i am sure for someone it can be a hit or miss like the HD800, too hollow as some might discribt the HD800 are certainly not the perfect form of soundstage in headphone.
In anycase it may not be able to compare with open cups design like the AKG K1000/RaaL SR1A/Myshere 3 for soundstage...

The SR-X9k so far seems sucessfully earning a good reputation on its low noise floor, high resolution and better separation which might sets it apart amount other new flagship.


----------



## padam

elton7033 said:


> On the other hand reading about SR-X soundstage makes me abit concern as if the soundstage really 2X as big as the 009 then we are looking at HD800 level? which i am sure for someone it can be a hit or miss like the HD800, too hollow as some might discribt the HD800 are certainly not the perfect form of soundstage in headphone.


HD800 and Omega have completely different soundstage projection, so there is no need to worry, we will get more impressions from head-fiers in 1-2 weeks' time.


----------



## thinker (Sep 26, 2021)

elton7033 said:


> On the other hand reading about SR-X soundstage makes me abit concern as if the soundstage really 2X as big as the 009 then we are looking at HD800 level? which i am sure for someone it can be a hit or miss like the HD800, too hollow as some might discribt the HD800 are certainly not the perfect form of soundstage in headphone.
> In anycase it may not be able to compare with open cups design like the AKG K1000/RaaL SR1A/Myshere 3 for soundstage...
> 
> The SR-X9k so far seems sucessfully earning a good reputation on its low noise floor, high resolution and better separation which might sets it apart amount other new flagship.


Esoteric dacs are the most piercing around, 2x soundstage of 009 really? any idea to tell apart fake HD-800 soundstage to 009 "real" soundstage
if X9 has 2x "real" soundstage against 009 that's massive amount of soundstage


----------



## arjuna93

yaluen said:


> FYI you can run the PAC-253 off 120V with no issues.



Yeah, it works normally with Taiwanese 110V. Thanks for the photo of insides!


----------



## arjuna93

tabness said:


> I remember listening back to back with the 353X, very similar, but something about the 253 lol... Again I cannot be sure the difference was anything except for my own perception, but there's a reason I kept that little guy and sold the others. Plus it has the cute little form factor:
> 
> 
> 
> I also am interested in a PAC 253 especially for the new X(9000). I straight up asked Ippinkan if they would make a PAC 253 for US voltage but unfortunately they politely declined. I wish I had gotten in on it when you could buy both new for around $600. The 253S ran me around $550 new itself when I got it a year ago or so.



Just 2–3 days ago “like new” PAC-253 went for 22000 JPY on Yahoo, with a single bet winning. I didn’t buy it just because I got one earlier this summer (for a bit more, but new).
If you keep an eye on Yahoo (via Buyee) and Hifido (they can send overseas directly and accept foreign cards for payments), you may have a luck. (Otherwise you may order from Rakuten a new unit.)


----------



## BenF

arjuna93 said:


> Just 2–3 days ago “like new” PAC-253 went for 22000 JPY on Yahoo, with a single bet winning. I didn’t buy it just because I got one earlier this summer (for a bit more, but new).
> If you keep an eye on Yahoo (via Buyee) and Hifido (they can send overseas directly and accept foreign cards for payments), you may have a luck. (Otherwise you may order from Rakuten a new unit.)


I use this LPS with my Airbow-253S (25w Talema + dual 12v): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000004386010.html
47$ + shipping at the moment.
I asked the store to reverse the polarity.


----------



## DougD

elton7033 said:


> So the rumors on SR-X(forget the 9000 since the name sucks)


PLEASE .... since there actually is a pre-existing Stax SR-X model from the mid/late 1970s ... which is still in use by some people, and still shows up regularly on eBay etc for sale  as a used product .... use the full SR-X9000 moniker for this new release, to avoid creating any possible confusion. Yeah, it's uninspiring, but that's its name. SR-X9000.


----------



## Mufti

DougD said:


> PLEASE .... since there actually is a pre-existing Stax SR-X model from the mid/late 1970s ... which is still in use by some people, and still shows up regularly on eBay etc for sale  as a used product .... use the full SR-X9000 moniker for this new release, to avoid creating any possible confusion. Yeah, it's uninspiring, but that's its name. SR-X9000.


How about SR-X9? 😛


----------



## dleblanc343

STAX SR-X9K should be the new naming standard for short.

Sounds good too.


----------



## ThanatosVI

On top of CRBN amd the new Stax there will also be the new Warwick Acoustics Bravura.
That makes 3 new eStats in a similar price segment.
​


----------



## Ciggavelli

ThanatosVI said:


> On top of CRBN amd the new Stax there will also be the new Warwick Acoustics Bravura.
> That makes 3 new eStats in a similar price segment.
> ​


I briefly considered the Aperio, but being forced to use their energizer is too limiting for me. Same with the HE-1. If I was to spend major bucks on an e-stat, it would be the Shangri-la Sr. The headphones can be used with different energizers, and the energizer can be used with different headphones  🤷‍♂️


----------



## ThanatosVI

Ciggavelli said:


> I briefly considered the Aperio, but being forced to use their energizer is too limiting for me. Same with the HE-1. If I was to spend major bucks on an e-stat, it would be the Shangri-la Sr. The headphones can be used with different energizers, and the energizer can be used with different headphones  🤷‍♂️


I see it the same way, for me their DACs are the weak point though.


----------



## elton7033

ThanatosVI said:


> On top of CRBN amd the new Stax there will also be the new Warwick Acoustics Bravura.
> That makes 3 new eStats in a similar price segment.
> ​


The Warwick Acoustics Bravura only listed for 1700GBP which is cheaper than the SR009 (non S) and just slightly more expensive then the 007Mk2.9 so i wont say its in the same legue with the SRX9k and CRBN which is 4-5k (twice to triple the price depend on where you buy). Althouh audio performance have no corrlation with price, Sonoma tend to sound very boring to my ears.


----------



## elton7033 (Sep 28, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> I see it the same way, for me their DACs are the weak point though.


If I am going to spend over 200k for a headphone system the HE1 and the older HE90set is the only two i will even consider.

However, I have a feeling that STAX will come up with a better amp to pair with the new SRX9k as there are still market for those who will only use STAX amps for STAX products.
Their current T8000 amp is only a 8000serires as is nothing more than a improved 727, maybe in 1 or 2 years time they will come up with a true sucessor of the T2 aka T9000 and the SRX9k T9000 combo will perfectly replace the SR-Omega T2 as in the 90s.
I also suspected there is a economical reason why they dont launch the new T9000 at the same time, might be because of T8000 sales is not up to expectation and they are trying to let people who jump in the electrostatic game because of the SRX9k to buy T8000 then introduce the T9k later.
Given the nature that Edifier being a chinese company; STAX growing popularity within China and East Asia headfi market, and the trend that Chinese consumer like money no object stuff as they can afford it, I can see driving force for STAX to develop this new amp.


----------



## thale

BenF said:


> I use this LPS with my Airbow-253S (25w Talema + dual 12v): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000004386010.html
> 47$ + shipping at the moment.
> I asked the store to reverse the polarity.


I'd love to see the inside of an Airbow 253S !
Did you take some pictures of the inside?

My Srm-252S is modded to the point where the sound is day and night with the stock unit and I always wonder what Airbow is doing in this model


----------



## greggf

In STAX's mind, is there any thought that a more powerful amp than the T8000 might represent a safety hazard and/or a potential legal liability?  A company like STAX could be wiped out overnight in court.


----------



## Ciggavelli

greggf said:


> In STAX's mind, is there any thought that a more powerful amp than the T8000 might represent a safety hazard and/or a potential legal liability?  A company like STAX could be wiped out overnight in court.


They tried that with the T2. And it was too powerful and dangerous, so they stopped making it. People are still building DIY versions and consider it to be the best energizer ever


----------



## elton7033

Ciggavelli said:


> They tried that with the T2. And it was too powerful and dangerous, so they stopped making it. People are still building DIY versions and consider it to be the best energizer ever


Isnt out there are tons of 2channel mono block amp which is way dangerous than T2? idk, I am not that technical when it come to DAC and AMP so is hard to comment but as long as it sounds good.


----------



## ThanatosVI

elton7033 said:


> The Warwick Acoustics Bravura only listed for 1700GBP which is cheaper than the SR009 (non S) and just slightly more expensive then the 007Mk2.9 so i wont say its in the same legue with the SRX9k and CRBN which is 4-5k (twice to triple the price depend on where you buy). Althouh audio performance have no corrlation with price, Sonoma tend to sound very boring to my ears.


It's like 7k with their amp and I didn't know which Portion is the headphone


----------



## paradoxper

elton7033 said:


> Isnt out there are tons of 2channel mono block amp which is way dangerous than T2? idk, I am not that technical when it come to DAC and AMP so is hard to comment but as long as it sounds good.


The problem with the SRM-T2 was poor thermal management resulting in parts failure.


----------



## arnaud

ThanatosVI said:


> It's like 7k with their amp and I didn't know which Portion is the headphone


It honestly looks all plastic like a 100USD headphone. Also aren’t these single sided (aka electret) type headphones? It’s a far far cousin from estats imo and I am not convinced they ever made much sales besides a few studios with the original unit. I only listened at shows so not a really valid assesment but I don’t recall being impressed. What’s the most surpising though is the pursuit of high end portion of the market with a technology I am not sure has much benefits to show besides that fact you can make an electret type transducer.


----------



## hewlett168

Any reason to assume there will also be a succesor to the 007Mk2 soon?


----------



## paradoxper

@Sorrodje has his SRX listed for sale. A great grab for EU folk.


----------



## arjuna93

DougD said:


> Yeah, it's uninspiring, but that's its name. SR-X9000.



Weirdly reminds of electrostatic Audio-Technica ATH-9000 – and that name also came out of the blue, not in line with earlier models (and ATH-9000 was not their TOTL electrostat).


----------



## thinker

padam said:


> https://headfreaks.eu/collections/earspeakers-1/products/stax-sr-x9000
> Price from the Danish distributor appr. 6850€


Warning:When buying here use only Paypal , even though he appers to be official distributer of Stax in Denmark


----------



## hewlett168

thinker said:


> Warning:When buying here use only Paypal , even though he appers to be official distributer of Stax in Denmark


Anything wrong with the dealer that you mention that?


----------



## hewlett168

hewlett168 said:


> Anything wrong with the dealer that you mention that?


I was actually considering buying a 007Mk2 from them, therefore I ask.


----------



## thinker

hewlett168 said:


> I was actually considering buying a 007Mk2 from them, therefore I ask.


I have some information wich can't share in public, use paypal for your security


----------



## padam

hewlett168 said:


> I was actually considering buying a 007Mk2 from them, therefore I ask.


It used to operate at hifi-freaks.dk which supposedly went bankrupt (and yet the site is still active).
The renewal HeadFreaks.dk is supposed to be Ok - but it's better to be safe than sorry.
The price on the 007Mk2 is very low, but it's on backorder which questions how they are able to source that, when all the other dealers cost way more.


----------



## hewlett168

So essentially you suggest that they are essentially underselling products to gain liquidity for products they cannot actually deliver for that price?


----------



## tycinis (Sep 28, 2021)

Hi !

I purchase a Stax SR007 mk1 ( the brown one ) with a questyle cma400i DAC and stax amps srm1-MK2

I would like to buy a decent amps for my 007 but i'm a bit lost :

mjolnir-audio.com
headamp.com
Better stax amps
High-amp.de ( Alpha Centauri , Antares )
Hifiman ( the jade one )

I would like to know what is powerful enough for my SR007 , the price is not settle yet so feel free to offers something i don't know.

What do you recommend at different price point ?

Benjamin.


----------



## Aurosonic

$500-$1500:

Stax SRM-717
Stax SRM-727
KGSS

$1500-$3500:

KGSSHV
KGST
KGSSHV Carbon (good deal if below $3500)

$3500-infinity:

KGSSHV Carbon
BHSE
Circlotron
DIY T2

There are many other options in these price brackets, but I am not familiar enough with them to give an endorsement. An energizer with power amp is another option, but most impressions indicate performance is not up to par with a dedicated electrstatic amp.

I initially powered my 007 MK1 with a 717 before upgrading to a KGSSHV. On paper the 717 is powerful enough to drive the 007, but the difference between the two amps was substantial.


----------



## afgmjkl

hewlett168 said:


> Any reason to assume there will also be a succesor to the 007Mk2 soon?


Stax staff told me they currently don't have plan of that.


----------



## walakalulu

Stax amps are ok - but lack guts and drive. Possibly best for classical. If you’re considering the totl cans then you really need better than a Stax amp.


----------



## chocolates

curious if there's any interest in a pair of SR-404LE, SR-L NB, or SR-Sigma NB in here - would prefer to sell to head-fiers who frequent this thread first before listing it on ebay and other marketplaces

decided I'm perfectly happy with my SR-007mk1 and KGSSHV Carbon


----------



## tycinis

Aurosonic said:


> $500-$1500:
> 
> Stax SRM-717
> Stax SRM-727
> ...



Thank you so much ! mjolnir would be my choice , the Blue Hawaii is too expensive for me :/



walakalulu said:


> Stax amps are ok - but lack guts and drive. Possibly best for classical. If you’re considering the totl cans then you really need better than a Stax amp.



Thank for the advice !



chocolates said:


> curious if there's any interest in a pair of SR-404LE, SR-L NB, or SR-Sigma NB in here - would prefer to sell to head-fiers who frequent this thread first before listing it on ebay and other marketplaces
> 
> decided I'm perfectly happy with my SR-007mk1 and KGSSHV Carbon



How much did you pay your KGSSHV ? good combo with the 007 mk1 ?


----------



## chocolates

came out to probably $5000 after upgrading to RK50 and soft-start internals; amazing combo with the 007mk1. by far my favorite stax headphones


----------



## BenF

thale said:


> I'd love to see the inside of an Airbow 253S !
> Did you take some pictures of the inside?
> 
> My Srm-252S is modded to the point where the sound is day and night with the stock unit and I always wonder what Airbow is doing in this model


I didn't open it.
Supposed to be identical to 252S, only using better parts.


----------



## miceblue

chocolates said:


> curious if there's any interest in a pair of SR-404LE, SR-L NB, or SR-Sigma NB in here - would prefer to sell to head-fiers who frequent this thread first before listing it on ebay and other marketplaces
> 
> decided I'm perfectly happy with my SR-007mk1 and KGSSHV Carbon


I just bought a SR-404 (not LE) actually since my SR-207 cable is dead. >.>

Nice Ina avatar BTW. I'm team ground-pound. XD


----------



## amsync

I'm wondering if anyone has heard anything regarding the development of aftermarket cables for the X9k by a 3rd party? I'm probably asking way too early, but I just in case..


----------



## hewlett168

Asking all Stax aficionados:

I have recently been looking into the Stax SR-007Mk2(v2.9), SR-009 and SR-009S. I have read all comparison I could find and asked some experts already on the subject how they compare, but I would still like to get a bit more information, specifically related to technical performance. The comparison is as follows:

- SR-007Mk2(v2.9) on SRM-717 with Denafrips Ares 2
- SR009(S) on SRM-353X with Denafrips Ares 2

Assuming each headphone is equalized to the Harman Target, how do they compare in terms of detail, separation, resolution, imaging? I specifically listen to soft rock music, which is relatively bass-light, so my concern would mostly be with the detail in the treble region. Would love to hear what you think!


----------



## cat6man

hewlett168 said:


> Asking all Stax aficionados:
> 
> I have recently been looking into the Stax SR-007Mk2(v2.9), SR-009 and SR-009S. I have read all comparison I could find and asked some experts already on the subject how they compare, but I would still like to get a bit more information, specifically related to technical performance. The comparison is as follows:
> 
> ...



what do folks think about applying the harman target to stax?
is there a consensus on its impacts (+ and -) to SQ?
if beneficial, are there any preferred implementation/hw/sw to do the equalization?


----------



## hewlett168

cat6man said:


> what do folks think about applying the harman target to stax?
> is there a consensus on its impacts (+ and -) to SQ?
> if beneficial, are there any preferred implementation/hw/sw to do the equalization?


I mention the Harman Target to have a common ground to compare the headphones on, with the common ground being a tuning that will be close to many people's preferences. Learning what EQ to apply to reach your own most preferred sound is preferable off course, but I am not in the position yet to be able to do that.


----------



## catscratch

Harman is pretty accurate in the midrange IMO, somewhere between 200hz and 4khz. Below 200hz, the amount of bass shelf really varies by preference, and above 4khz you will have very real differences between how people hear the highs. So I would use Harman presets as a baseline, but then adjust the bass and highs to how you hear and prefer. Alternatively, you can just do your own curve from scratch using pink noise, sine sweeps, test tracks, etc, but when I started using more pink noise to EQ, the curves I came up with started getting closer and closer to Harman, at least in the mids.


----------



## Chefguru

hewlett168 said:


> Asking all Stax aficionados:
> 
> I have recently been looking into the Stax SR-007Mk2(v2.9), SR-009 and SR-009S. I have read all comparison I could find and asked some experts already on the subject how they compare, but I would still like to get a bit more information, specifically related to technical performance. The comparison is as follows:
> 
> ...



I would urge most people getting into Estats to purchase KGSSHV or KGST as the baseline. Hearing the CRBN for instance off the Z10e (not enough juice) vs the Carbon, was further a reminder. I literally watched a line of people come off the different units with polarizing opinions based on amp.

I think you will be disappointed with the 007 on the 717. I was when I owned that setup back in 2013. Right now I have the 009s with the KGST and I was very pleased with how close it came to the BHSE's performance when directly compared.


----------



## KDS315

cat6man said:


> what do folks think about applying the harman target to stax?
> is there a consensus on its impacts (+ and -) to SQ?
> if beneficial, are there any preferred implementation/hw/sw to do the equalization?


Well, I have to admit that I'm pretty happy using the ROON Convolver and the ORATORY1990 files for my SR-009, SR-0007Mk2.5 and my various Lambdas.


----------



## jimWA

Chefguru said:


> I would urge most people getting into Estats to purchase KGSSHV or KGST as the baseline. Hearing the CRBN for instance off the Z10e (not enough juice) vs the Carbon, was further a reminder. I literally watched a line of people come off the different units with polarizing opinions based on amp.
> 
> I think you will be disappointed with the 007 on the 717. I was when I owned that setup back in 2013. Right now I have the 009s with the KGST and I was very pleased with how close it came to the BHSE's performance when directly compared.


The Z10E delivers 12W and was favorably reviewed with the hard to drive Susvara by Herb Reichert, and used by Audeze with their CRBN release to reviewers, who were positive in response, so it would seem to be more a matter of taste.  

I for one am not a bass-head, so not looking for that emphasis, whereas others do, which, based on other comments on Mjolnir vs LTA on CRBN would seem to draw that line.


----------



## Velomane

KDS315 said:


> Well, I have to admit that I'm pretty happy using the ROON Convolver and the ORATORY1990 files for my SR-009, SR-0007Mk2.5 and my various Lambdas.


Same here, for my 009S and 007mk2's. Hopefully a file shows up for the SR-X9000.


----------



## Aurosonic

For a while I tuned my 007 MK1 to Harman target using a convolution filter. I then used the SR-009 filter which I preferred. I am now running custom PEQ with a bass shelf below 150Hz, a high shelf above 9kHz, and corrections to dips/peaks in the midrange.


----------



## Chefguru

jimWA said:


> The Z10E delivers 12W and was favorably reviewed with the hard to drive Susvara by Herb Reichert, and used by Audeze with their CRBN release to reviewers, who were positive in response, so it would seem to be more a matter of taste.
> 
> I for one am not a bass-head, so not looking for that emphasis, whereas others do, which, based on other comments on Mjolnir vs LTA on CRBN would seem to draw that line.



the difference is not in the bass but the high end due to the way electrostatic headphones work. I’m not an engineer, but from what I’ve been told it’s not as simple as the watts of power.

Kevin Gilmore had an explanation a while back that’s maybe (?) helpful
“
for dynamic amplifiers the same voltage swing at 1khz and 20khz is easy.

for electrostatic amplifiers a whole bunch harder.

600v power supplies require 18ma.
the koss esp950 is push pull and still can't come anywhere near close to this.
my cfaelectrostat will do this with enough heatsink.

500 v power supplies require 15ma of output current at 20khz into 120pf
A T2 can do this. A megatron can do this

450 v power supplies require 14ma of output current.
a carbon can easily do 18 to 20 ma
a kgsshv is limited to a max of about 9ma

400v power supplies require 12ma of output current
a BH will easily do this and more

350v power supplies requires 10.6ma of output current
Most stax amps (t1,717,727,007t...) are 350v power supplies and can only supply about 7ma

300v power supplies require 9ma of output current
some stax amps including the d50 are limited to about 6ma

200v power supplies (kse1500/kse1200) capacitive load 80pf (actual measured, no spec)
4ma needed, amplifier limited to +/-1ma and the thd is over 1% at 200vppss

175v power supplies D10 requires 5.25ma of output current
amplifier is limited to 6ma”


----------



## Terozzzz

I dont know about 007 or 009 but my L700 sounds absolutely nuts good on T1 modded amp and the magic comes from denafrips ARES II. The main thing is ARES II. 
Made the biggest change in my system. Going from STAX lambda pro to L700 was not as big of a change as i bought ARES II.


----------



## zomkung

Chefguru said:


> the difference is not in the bass but the high end due to the way electrostatic headphones work. I’m not an engineer, but from what I’ve been told it’s not as simple as the watts of power.
> 
> Kevin Gilmore had an explanation a while back that’s maybe (?) helpful
> “
> ...



Aren't 717 and 727 450V?


----------



## kevin gilmore

nope, 350v usually a little bit less depending on line voltage as they are unregulated power supplies


----------



## cat6man (Oct 2, 2021)

it seems there must be a way to try these convolution filters with offline processing to see if i like the result?
do you have any (free) software recommendations?  (linux preferred)

edit:  it looks like i can install foobar2000 as a snap on ubuntu, and it has a convolver i can play with.

edut2:  anyone know how i can get filters to put into convolver?  i have stax 009.  anyone have 009 filters they enjoy and can share?
on oratory, i see graphed/equalized 009 but no obvious link to the correction filters used (but they must exist to create the convolved/corrected output)

thx


----------



## KDS315

cat6man said:


> it seems there must be a way to try these convolution filters with offline processing to see if i like the result?
> do you have any (free) software recommendations?  (linux preferred)
> 
> edit:  it looks like i can install foobar2000 as a snap on ubuntu, and it has a convolver i can play with.
> ...


Install ROON as it comes with free 30day tryout. Convolver is built into the DSP menu and simple to use.
The ORATORY1990 files are here: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018 just click onto the 44.1kHz and 48kHz wav files and then click DOWNLOAD, safe them, then zip BOTH files into ONE zip file (appropriately named) and upload this file in the ROON CONVOLVER DSP Menu (you have to add the Convolver first, it is not loaded as a default by clicking the + symbol)


----------



## cat6man

KDS315 said:


> Install ROON as it comes with free 30day tryout. Convolver is built into the DSP menu and simple to use.
> The ORATORY1990 files are here: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018 just click onto the 44.1kHz and 48kHz wav files and then click DOWNLOAD, safe them, then zip BOTH files into ONE zip file (appropriately named) and upload this file in the ROON CONVOLVER DSP Menu (you have to add the Convolver first, it is not loaded as a default by clicking the + symbol)



thanks.  
i have a strong aversion to roon (i have tried it) and am also looking to process music offline to see what i think of the equalized sound.

so, i went to the github repository and downloaded the csv file the stax 009 and extracted the frequency corrections for the 'equalization' column.
and, of course, foobar2000 wants to see an impulse response, not a frequency response or a WAV tile.

are there any simple tools to convert either the frequency reponse data or the WAV file to an impulse response?
worse case, i can always go into MATLAB or R and process it myself but i'm feeling lazy today 

off topic:  i see Arnaud is following this topic.  hello Arnaud!  I hope you and your family are well (and vaccinated).
have you had a chance to hear the x9000 headphone yet?


----------



## hewlett168

What would be a reasonable price for a 009 new/demo in Europe?


----------



## tycinis

You can find used one in very good condition for 2.5k€ , 3k€ for a demo one seems fair.


----------



## hewlett168

tycinis said:


> You can find used one in very good condition for 2.5k€ , 3k€ for a demo one seems fair.


Thanks for your answer. How important would you deem warranty in that respect?


----------



## tycinis

hewlett168 said:


> Thanks for your answer. How important would you deem warranty in that respect?



star repair are expensive , i would prefer the 3k€ one with warranty still going , 2.5k€ or 3k€ imo is the same thing in the end.


----------



## ThibSan

tycinis said:


> star repair are expensive , i would prefer the 3k€ one with warranty still going , 2.5k€ or 3k€ imo is the same thing in the end.


+1


----------



## amsync

tycinis said:


> star repair are expensive , i would prefer the 3k€ one with warranty still going , 2.5k€ or 3k€ imo is the same thing in the end.


If I may offer a counter argument. Admittingly I say this while I have one for sale, but I have not found them difficult to deal with or expensive to fix. My left driver failed back in July and Edifier treated me very good. They rebuild both drivers and added new earpads. The expense to replace the drivers was about 1k euro (translating from USD. I paid in USD) so on that math if the drivers in the unit I'm selling were to fail again in the future the total price of my 2nd hand unit plus edifier cost to replace them again (based on today dollars) would be the same as the cost of a new SR-009...

I think the problem may be with Stax USA. For reasons that I cannot understand Stax USA offers repair services that are separate from the Japan factory and ~2x as expensive. I did not have any issue with getting Stax Japan to take my RMA. I bought through a legitimate dealer. I simply do not have enough experience though with Stax USA to say if this was a one-off thing or if they are just more expensive if you go through them. One thing is for sure, Stax distribution network sure is confusing!


----------



## ThibSan (Oct 6, 2021)

amsync said:


> If I may offer a counter argument. Admittingly I say this while I have one for sale, but I have not found them difficult to deal with or expensive to fix. My left driver failed back in July and Edifier treated me very good. They rebuild both drivers and added new earpads. The expense to replace the drivers was about 1k euro (translating from USD. I paid in USD) so on that math if the drivers in the unit I'm selling were to fail again in the future the total price of my 2nd hand unit plus edifier cost to replace them again (based on today dollars) would be the same as the cost of a new SR-009...
> 
> I think the problem may be with Stax USA. For reasons that I cannot understand Stax USA offers repair services that are separate from the Japan factory and ~2x as expensive. I did not have any issue with getting Stax Japan to take my RMA. I bought through a legitimate dealer. I simply do not have enough experience though with Stax USA to say if this was a one-off thing or if they are just more expensive if you go through them. One thing is for sure, Stax distribution network sure is confusing!


I had a channel imbalance issue on my 009S early this summer as well and the replacement was made for free by the dealer and the local importer and I was out of warranty… It was a pleasant seeing that great price can also buy great service. 😊

They shared they barely ever see any problems with SR-009S (when they are treated well of course).

Apparently early 009 may have been more prone to developing the issue, but it was a long time ago. So if the pair you are selling has already been fixed it should be good to go for a good few years indeed.


----------



## cat6man

KDS315 said:


> Install ROON as it comes with free 30day tryout. Convolver is built into the DSP menu and simple to use.
> The ORATORY1990 files are here: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018 just click onto the 44.1kHz and 48kHz wav files and then click DOWNLOAD, safe them, then zip BOTH files into ONE zip file (appropriately named) and upload this file in the ROON CONVOLVER DSP Menu (you have to add the Convolver first, it is not loaded as a default by clicking the + symbol)



so, i was able to download the 44.1k and 48k WAV files.  i read them into R and converted to a time domain impulse response, so i'm ready to try convolving some music files.

are there any impulse responses that are more than 16bits?  convolving two 16 bit files is not a very clean way to process audio data.


----------



## AudioJon

Does anyone have EQ settings for Lambda Signatures (purchased in 1991)? I haven't listened to them much over these 30 years but plan to listen more often. They sound very nice but after hearing some $3000 plus cans at Canjam, I'd like to see if they can do better.


----------



## elton7033 (Oct 9, 2021)

Yesterday was the day of the day, launch day of STAX SR-X9K in Japan. I wish I will recieve my pair soon.


----------



## Hubert481

Try to post your comments here
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-x9000.959852/

should be a better place therefore


----------



## DecentLevi

In case anyone is interested I'm selling my SRM-727A energizer for North American region with feedback mod for a no-nonsense price
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...c-energiser-modded-in-usa-w-120v-input.12415/


----------



## bearFNF

DecentLevi said:


> In case anyone is interested I'm selling my SRM-727A energizer for North American region with feedback mod for a no-nonsense price
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...c-energiser-modded-in-usa-w-120v-input.12415/


Your ad says both pro and normal headphone connections but the picture shows "pro only" on both sockets???


----------



## DecentLevi

bearFNF said:


> Your ad says both pro and normal headphone connections but the picture shows "pro only" on both sockets???


Just noticed that, I'll update the ad.


----------



## lsantista

First trip with the D10 + 007A  the case was perfect for storing them while on the road. The pics are from the way back when I was on a rush, on the way in it looked even better organized. The power supply and cables actually help getting everything tight in place. The combo is flexible of course because of D10, I could listen to my cousin’s turntable with the 3.5-rca female adapter on the pic (that came with my tv) and to digital with laptop.


----------



## dogrelata

Hello,

After being away from Stax for a few years, I got back in the game a few weeks ago and bought a pair of new L700s.  Now that I'm adjusting to the sound signature, I'm really getting into them and in terms of listening experience, they're a step up from my 30-year-old Lambda Pros.  L700s are definitely more 'luxuriant' than the leaner, sparer sound of the Pros, at least to my ears.

The thing is, I'm still using my old SRM-252S driver, which is actually making the L700s sound very decent already.  Ideally I'd like to pick up a used 353X in the not too distant future but I've also wondered if SBooster would make a worthwhile improvement for less than 50% of probable cost of 353X.  I'm working on a tight budget as I also hope to upgrade my Chord Qute to Qutest in the next 12 months.

So the question is, does anyone have experience of using SRM-252S with SBooster and what are their thoughts in terms of what differences they thought it made/makes to the sound and whether they consider it a worthwhile addition.  I've read a number of reviews and impressions of SBooster, most of which appear to be very positive but none of them have specific to SRM-252S.

I should add that I'm no audiophile and don't consider myself to be over demanding in terms of what I expect in terms of SQ and volume or amount of bass required.  These days I listen at lower volumes than in my younger, analogue days, rarely venturing above 9 o'clock on the volume knob.  Even at these moderate levels, I find the L700s are so crisp and clean they sound vibrant and fairly full bodied.  I mostly listen rock, blues, semi-acoustic and folk, etc.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.


----------



## shabta

dogrelata said:


> Hello,
> 
> After being away from Stax for a few years, I got back in the game a few weeks ago and bought a pair of new L700s.  Now that I'm adjusting to the sound signature, I'm really getting into them and in terms of listening experience, they're a step up from my 30-year-old Lambda Pros.  L700s are definitely more 'luxuriant' than the leaner, sparer sound of the Pros, at least to my ears.
> 
> ...


Buy a better amp, the Sbooster will at the very best be only a very subtle improvement. But the 353x will be a lot better for driving the L700 than what you have, especially at moderately loud and louder volume.


----------



## tumpux

I would say that every upgrade is relative to our own expectations. That’s why auditioning before buying a new gear is always recommended. 
Having said that, I won’t expect the S-Boostered 252 will be a lot better than the stock 252. The limitation of 252 is not just in its power supply.


----------



## tjlindle

A few questions for anyone who can offer some experience/advice:

1. My favorite vintage Lambda is the Nova Classic due to its warmth and smoothness relative to a lot of the other Lambdas. That being the case, would I likely prefer the 007mk2 tonality over the 009?

2. Is the 007mk2 lower, but in the same general tier, as the 009 in terms of imaging and detail retrieval, or is the 009 much superior in these areas?

3. Will a 353X drive the 007mk2 "sufficiently" (not optimally, but sufficiently) or would that be a complete bust?

Basically I'm leaning towards a 007mk2 but if there is a distinct gap in technical performance between it and the 009 then I may go 009 instead despite some qualms about the tonality. Another factor is that by most accounts the 009 should be a better fit to drive with a 353X which is all I'll have on hand, other than an SRM-1/mk2 and a 252S which won't help much. I do plan to upgrade amp but not until I decide whether to get an actual amp or an iFi Iesl.


----------



## shabta

The SR007 presents a slightly more diffuse image compared to the 009 and a slightly narrower head stage. It's a richer, fuller bass sort of presentation and much warmer. The 009 is a little better in imaging, and the treble is where the debate is, it's a pretty bright headphone. I prefer the 007.  Yes the 009 is easier to drive. But a lot of the people who say you must have a carbon or bhse listen really LOUD. Honestly there isn't much difference between a 353X and SRM 1/mk2 (assuming it's been recapped, cuz it's pretty old). Both will power the 007 well enough unless you like to crank it. It isn't that a BHSE won't sound better (especially in the bass) but you won't care that much about the difference unless you like it LOUD. I have an SRX+ which delivers almost as much current (which is at least as important as voltage swing) as a BHSE or KGSSHV Carbon compared to other amps. I don't have the space for those amps. And honestly it's as good enough most of the time. I have a recapped SRM1/mk2 and it's really ok except for super bassy stuff or when I crank it (treble extension).  Even then the differences are exaggerated.


----------



## zomkung (Oct 17, 2021)

tjlindle said:


> A few questions for anyone who can offer some experience/advice:
> 
> 1. My favorite vintage Lambda is the Nova Classic due to its warmth and smoothness relative to a lot of the other Lambdas. That being the case, would I likely prefer the 007mk2 tonality over the 009?
> 
> ...



1. 007Mk2 and prefer blu-tac modded
007 is warm and 009 is bright, both are neutral headphones but different tonality and compliment each other very well.
2. 009 may have *10%* more detail and resolution of 007 (according to @Tugbars ). The bright tonality helps this too. 007 is not lacking in anythings just difficult to pick it up because of warm tonality. The headstage of 007 is less wide but more 3D(the depth) than 009 (see image below in the mid represent it well of the definition of 3D)






3. 353X will be just fine. But many prefer at least 717/727.

Last, the 007 is not performing well on big brand orchestras with a lot of instruments around. The headstage is too small in that regard. but 007 thump 009 in the modern music and the bass, while 009 has a better detail retrieval.


----------



## BenF

tjlindle said:


> A few questions for anyone who can offer some experience/advice:
> 
> 1. My favorite vintage Lambda is the Nova Classic due to its warmth and smoothness relative to a lot of the other Lambdas. That being the case, would I likely prefer the 007mk2 tonality over the 009?
> 
> ...


When running on Blue Hawaii SE, 007 had a much darker/warmer, less detailed (by quite much) presentation.
Wouldn't call 009 bright, its sound is very dependent on the amp. I use a tube pre-amp to make 009 sound naturally warm (but not dark) and smooth.
Unmodded, 007 didn't really sound like a proper electrostatic. Its tonality in the vocals wasn't great.


----------



## zolkis

tjlindle said:


> 1. My favorite vintage Lambda is the Nova Classic due to its warmth and smoothness relative to a lot of the other Lambdas. That being the case, would I likely prefer the 007mk2 tonality over the 009?



You might even prefer your Lambda over the 009... but you won't get the same bass extension, clarity, resolving power, tonal correctness.
Warmth and smoothness is achievable with the 009 as well, give it a good amp and source. Some treble hash and a bit of technical-feeling (less soul), but quite fine.
I prefer the the latest 007 over the latest 009, but I think the 009 are more universal, will appeal to more people as it sounds more open.



tjlindle said:


> 2. Is the 007mk2 lower, but in the same general tier, as the 009 in terms of imaging and detail retrieval, or is the 009 much superior in these areas?



Musical details are more apparent with the 009, partly since the big difference in FR in the 2-6 kHz domain, partly because of the difference in sensitivity and membrane thickness, too. I think both bass and mids are better resolving with the 009. However, the 007 may sound more coherent, but it's also because it's more forgiving to source equipment. Most source equipment today have a harshness, hardness or a technical sound profile, though in later years good advances happened.



tjlindle said:


> 3. Will a 353X drive the 007mk2 "sufficiently" (not optimally, but sufficiently) or would that be a complete bust?



Yes, it will drive it, even the 007 Mk1. A BHSE will not make it louder, but more complete, smoother and deeper. A Phenomenon amp is like a dynamic and spatial boost-bust in comparison (Mjölnir Carbon is a distant uncle).



tjlindle said:


> Basically I'm leaning towards a 007mk2 but if there is a distinct gap in technical performance between it and the 009 then I may go 009 instead despite some qualms about the tonality. Another factor is that by most accounts the 009 should be a better fit to drive with a 353X which is all I'll have on hand, other than an SRM-1/mk2 and a 252S which won't help much. I do plan to upgrade amp but not until I decide whether to get an actual amp or an iFi Iesl.



If you are thinking in the context of the 353X or iFi, maybe better get a T1 with mods. But check out the value kings linked above, e.g. high-amp or Konka, or second hand Mjölnir stuff. 

Overall, I think the 009 is safer bet for long term, especially now that the 009S and X9K are around as well. If you want slightly warmer sound to the 009, try the pad mod.
The same mod is doable for the 007, it opens up the sound a bit, actually it's even more suitable for the 007 than for the 009. Then, the 009 pads used on the 007 are another "mod", as they sound best on the 007 as well. Also, taking out the spring from the 007 ear pads (and eventually doing the pad mod) opens up the sound, bringing it up in resolving power as well. The port mod is another thing you can do. A lot of room to play with the 007. 

Note that you should NOT listen critically to the 007 until it's adjusted properly to your head shape. For both the 007 Mk1 and Mk2, I needed to shape the headband to be flatter, i.e. provide more distance between the top of the drivers, and follow my head shape from there down, with a borderline lose fit, when bass is not diffuse yet, but it has most impact, depth and sound stage is biggest. I ended up the two headbands with slightly different shape, so that they track my head front to back as well. Your head may require different setting, but IMHO this kind of optimization is a must with any 007. I really liked the 007 headbands (less so for the ringing), as they allowed nice fine-tuning of the fit.

The 009 is not so sensitive about it, and its headband is not even adjustable for shape (only for size), unfortunately.


----------



## KDS315 (Oct 17, 2021)

dogrelata said:


> Hello,
> 
> After being away from Stax for a few years, I got back in the game a few weeks ago and bought a pair of new L700s.  Now that I'm adjusting to the sound signature, I'm really getting into them and in terms of listening experience, they're a step up from my 30-year-old Lambda Pros.  L700s are definitely more 'luxuriant' than the leaner, sparer sound of the Pros, at least to my ears.
> 
> ...


Personally I like the STM-T1 with my L700 Mk2 a lot; but it is a tube amp - not everybody’s taste. I got the CCS / ECC99 modification btw. Sounds great even with the SR-009!

Later I got the high-amp.de SIRIUS V9 transistor amp - which I mostly use now.


----------



## Tugbars (Oct 19, 2021)

deleted


----------



## number1sixerfan

tjlindle said:


> A few questions for anyone who can offer some experience/advice:
> 
> 1. My favorite vintage Lambda is the Nova Classic due to its warmth and smoothness relative to a lot of the other Lambdas. That being the case, would I likely prefer the 007mk2 tonality over the 009?
> 
> ...



There is a distinct technical gap between the 009 and the 007. Without question. 007 does have a smoother tonality for sure, and a thicker sound overall though.


----------



## tjlindle

Thanks everybody for the advice and insights. Electrostats are not the most mainstream thing so it's awesome having a thread where I can ask questions and get like half a dozen great responses within a day.

Based on info in your responses and some further research, I think I will go in the direction of the 009. Frankly the 007 kind of intimidates me lol, I know the 009 also requires a very solid chain but with the 007 it seems like it requires a degree of resources that I'm not as prepared to put into it at the moment for it to really sound its best. That and I'm also allured by the prospect of maximum clarity and detail on the 009, I feel I'd keep it in rotation for those qualities even if the tonality doesn't necessarily make it a daily driver.

I'll look more into sourcing one and in the meantime continue to enjoy my "Stax mid-fi hell" with these vintage Lambdas, which is more like a mid-fi heaven because I love basically every single one of these things.


----------



## lsantista

what kind of music do you listen to?
I have a L700-ii and a 007A and heard the 009S only twice, but never heard the 009. I felt the 009S much more similiar to the lambda, specially at lower volumes and with less powerfull amps (Im not experienced with anything better than a 700T / 007T). 

the 007A is ok , or a bit better than the L700 for some genres, but for classical it is probably a downgrade from the more transperency oriented L700, also less focus bassier passages, the L700 is tighter. Just wish the lambdas were more confortable though


----------



## dogrelata

KDS315 said:


> Personally I like the STM-T1 with my L700 Mk2 a lot; but it is a tube amp - not everybody’s taste. I got the CCS / ECC99 modification btw. Sounds great even with the SR-009!
> 
> Later I got the high-amp.de SIRIUS V9 transistor amp - which I mostly use now.



Thanks.

To be honest, I'm hoping to upgrade amp for less than £1k, but I did check out the Sirius a few weeks ago when you mentioned earlier in the thread and it did make me wonder.  What do you like about it and how would you characterize the sound signature?

Even with the little 252S, I'm loving the tonality and vibrance of L700, especially with acoustic or semi-acoustic recordings.  On the occasional track bass can sound like a ghostly blob but overall I don't find it underwhelming.  I suppose when I 'upgrade' I'm hoping to get some additional texture and richness across the board and more separation and air between instruments.  I'm not keen on the idea of tubes and auditioning amps isn't really a possibility due to my geographical location.


----------



## KDS315 (Oct 18, 2021)

dogrelata said:


> Thanks.
> 
> To be honest, I'm hoping to upgrade amp for less than £1k, but I did check out the Sirius a few weeks ago when you mentioned earlier in the thread and it did make me wonder.  What do you like about it and how would you characterize the sound signature?
> 
> Even with the little 252S, I'm loving the tonality and vibrance of L700, especially with acoustic or semi-acoustic recordings.  On the occasional track bass can sound like a ghostly blob but overall I don't find it underwhelming.  I suppose when I 'upgrade' I'm hoping to get some additional texture and richness across the board and more separation and air between instruments.  I'm not keen on the idea of tubes and auditioning amps isn't really a possibility due to my geographical location.


Well, the SIRIUS is EUR1,650 but it has a less expensive brother at EUR650 (!!), the SIRRAH: https://www-high--amp-de.translate....sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=nui which also is a TRANSISTOR Amp (with XLR inputs, but could be had with RCA inputs on request).






Both sound neutral, the SIRIUS has a bit more punch, but depending on music preferences it may not be needed. I listen to Jazz, Acid-Jazz, Rock, and some R+B and Classic music at times and I use 13:00 hours at max. on the amp volume setting, so basically use only 60% of the max loudness it has. Why then did I not get the SIRRAH if you ask me - because of that "power hungry" 007 I also possess....and if I ever get an original OMEGA


----------



## Tugbars (Oct 18, 2021)

KDS315 said:


> Well, the SIRIUS is EUR1,650 but it has a less expensive brother at EUR650 (!!), the SIRRAH: https://www-high--amp-de.translate....sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=nui which also is a TRANSISTOR Amp (with XLR inputs, but could be had with RCA inputs on request).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


who is building them?

I like that high-amp is showing some measurements of his amps in his website. He even shares crosstalk vs freq measurements! As a customer, I want to know more about what I'm buying.


----------



## KDS315

Tugbars said:


> who is building them?
> 
> I like that high-amp is showing some measurements of his amps in his website. He even shares crosstalk vs freq measurements! As a customer, I want to know more about what I'm buying.


Andreas Rauenbühler himself is building some amps and is offereing them on his site high-amp.de under OFFERS. But he also allows DIY solutions and has publisged PCB designs etc. on that site (not the newest versions though).

He usually allows a test period of 7 days "keep or return" (here in Europe, not sure about export).


----------



## tjlindle

For the 353X specifically, what are the tangible benefits of the XLR balanced input vs. RCA input?

Is it just the usual balanced chain benefits, or does the amp actually perform differently in real-world usage?

I have another balanced DAC I can run it with but I'm curious if I can route it through the unbalanced output of the balanced DAC I have out and hooked up, with no real performance loss.

For now it will only be driving vintage Lambdas so it shouldn't really be sweating too hard regardless.


lsantista said:


> what kind of music do you listen to?


I cycle through genres a lot but at the moment I'm going through jazz, classical, and city pop discographies mostly. So the jazz/classical combo was another reason I thought the 009 might be a better move.

That's interesting about the L700 though. I will stay posted on sourcing one of those as well because I actually like the Lambda shape and find it extremely comfortable even for 10-12 hours at a time.

I think I just have some bizarre head shape or pressure points though because a lot of other "high comfort" headphones do nothing for me or are even actively painful. My first audiophile purchase ever was the 6XX and I legitimately can't wear them for even an hour without getting a days-long headache from pressure points on the sides and top of my head.


----------



## tumpux

Stay away from headphones then. 
Speakers sound like a better fit for you.


----------



## tjlindle

tumpux said:


> Stay away from headphones then.
> Speakers sound like a better fit for you.


I do have a speaker setup with DIY Samba MTs but I don't know why the conclusion from "a lot of headphones give me bad comfort issues" would be to drop headphones altogether...like I said above I find Lambdas very comfortable.


----------



## zolkis

tjlindle said:


> I cycle through genres a lot but at the moment I'm going through jazz, classical, and city pop discographies mostly. So the jazz/classical combo was another reason I thought the 009 might be a better move.



Not to complicate things, but I suggest the 007 (latest) is among the best headphones for jazz, and the 009 is one of the best for classical, IMHO.  
If you want a best-of combination, it's getting hard to find: Phenomenon Libratum V3. I suggest trying some older Stax as well, if you can, like the SR-X Mk3 or Gamma Pro, SR-Lambda, Lambda Sig and LE. Some of these sound really sweet, minus the deepest bass in low 20s plus some slight colorations here or there. 
But if you have set your mind on the 009, I still think it's a better "compromise", so forget about comparisons and just enjoy the music .


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## tjlindle (Oct 18, 2021)

zolkis said:


> Not to complicate things, but I suggest the 007 (latest) is among the best headphones for jazz, and the 009 is one of the best for classical, IMHO.
> If you want a best-of combination, it's getting hard to find: Phenomenon Libratum V3. I suggest trying some older Stax as well, if you can, like the SR-X Mk3 or Gamma Pro, SR-Lambda, Lambda Sig and LE. Some of these sound really sweet, minus the deepest bass in low 20s plus some slight colorations here or there.
> But if you have set your mind on the 009, I still think it's a better "compromise", so forget about comparisons and just enjoy the music .


I would say in a pinch Classical would get priority over Jazz so I will probably still go the 009 route. I'm also considering holding off on any of them to see impressions for the X9000, but at its price point I think I want to just confirm TOTL Stax is the direction I want to go before going all in with another few grand + a better amp than the 353X.

From your vintage list, right now I have the SR-X Mk3 and the Lambda Sig. I do love them both. X Mk3 will probably be on its way out soon though since I'm planning to sell my SRM-1/Mk2 and that's the only Normal bias input option I have.

Never heard of the Phenomenon Libratum V3, I'll look into those. I enjoyed the Pollinators and the Kaldas RR1s so I'm open to non-Stax modern stats. I may be picking up an ES-1A but that's still a bit up in the air.

EDIT: Website seems to be gone for the Phenomenons. You're right I can tell these will be hard to find...lol.


----------



## zomkung (Oct 18, 2021)

zolkis said:


> Not to complicate things, but I suggest the 007 (latest) is among the best headphones for jazz, and the 009 is one of the best for classical, IMHO.
> If you want a best-of combination, it's getting hard to find: Phenomenon Libratum V3. I suggest trying some older Stax as well, if you can, like the SR-X Mk3 or Gamma Pro, SR-Lambda, Lambda Sig and LE. Some of these sound really sweet, minus the deepest bass in low 20s plus some slight colorations here or there.
> But if you have set your mind on the 009, I still think it's a better "compromise", so forget about comparisons and just enjoy the music .



Phenomenon Libratum V3 website is not be found anymore....

However, I found Perun which is still interesting one https://www.head-fi.org/threads/per...phone-impressions.872273/page-6#post-15364302


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## DougD (Oct 18, 2021)

zolkis said:


> I suggest trying some older Stax as well, if you can, like the SR-X Mk3 or Gamma Pro, SR-Lambda, Lambda Sig and LE. Some of these sound really sweet, minus the deepest bass in low 20s plus some slight colorations here or there.


I have 3 lambdas (bought used) and an SR-X Mk3 (bought new ... um, not recently.) 

I really enjoy the idea that I'm getting 90th percentile performance at 30-40th percentile prices. 

Whether or not that's really true doesn't matter. Chanting "I believe, I believe" has saved me a lot of money so far in this hobby. Although I am always fighting temptation of course, as do we all. 


tjlindle said:


> From your vintage list, right now I have the SR-X Mk3 and the Lambda Sig. I do love them both. X Mk3 will probably be on its way out soon though since I'm planning to sell my SRM-1/Mk2 and that's the only Normal bias input option I have.


Don't know what you might be thinking of upgrading to as an e-stat driver, but the market value of a working SRM-1/Mk2 could be less than its value to you as a backup. As zolkis wrote, some of those normal bias Staxen have a sweet sound. If you have a dual-bias amp in the collection, even if it's not your go-to daily amp, you have more options. [Admittedly, those extra options are in the Old & Getting Older All The Time Dept.] That's the amp I'm using now, and if/when I upgrade, I'm keeping mine, for exactly the reasons stated above.


----------



## catscratch

The L700 only outdoes the 007A technically on lower power amps. There, yeah, the 007 sounds sleepy and can lack resolve/dynamics, while the L700 will be punchier and clearer sounding. But that's on lower-power amps. Toss some power at the 007 and it will scale way past the L700 and most other things in general, and will be much more resolving with a more 3D stage and much better bass.

The 007 is annoying - you have to mod it, you have to have a powerful amp, and IMO you have to EQ it a little bit to make it more linear, or at least I do. So if you're not willing to do those things, there are better options that will give you better sound out of the box. But to be fair, the bass port mod only takes about 5 minutes to do, and coming up with EQ profiles is something you should do for all headphones anyway. So it's annoying and fussy, but it's not THAT annoying and fussy. The biggest barrier is the cost of the amp.

The L700 also will have a different presentation, way more forward and with a more upfront midrange and vocal presentation. It also has excellent clarity and resolution in the mids. But the bass is fuzzy and loose, the imaging is somewhat diffuse, and the staging is more 2D than the 007. It's a very unique presentation and all Lambdas have it to some extent, and I can see people liking it over other headphones. Heck I have 3 different Lambdas right now so I get it. I would recommend it if you're not planning on getting anything past a 353x, or if you'll stick with it for a while. The L700 also needs EQ, there is about 5db too much midrange shout at 1.2k and the highs are a bit edgy. Not everyone is annoyed by that but I sure was. Lastly, the current Lambdas don't fit people with wider heads very well, especially the Mk1 versions, and if you have a big head you may have to mod them to get them to fit properly, which I had to do also.


----------



## Menkau-ra

catscratch said:


> The L700 only outdoes the 007A technically on lower power amps. There, yeah, the 007 sounds sleepy and can lack resolve/dynamics, while the L700 will be punchier and clearer sounding. But that's on lower-power amps. Toss some power at the 007 and it will scale way past the L700 and most other things in general, and will be much more resolving with a more 3D stage and much better bass.
> 
> The 007 is annoying - you have to mod it, you have to have a powerful amp, and IMO you have to EQ it a little bit to make it more linear, or at least I do. So if you're not willing to do those things, there are better options that will give you better sound out of the box. But to be fair, the bass port mod only takes about 5 minutes to do, and coming up with EQ profiles is something you should do for all headphones anyway. So it's annoying and fussy, but it's not THAT annoying and fussy. The biggest barrier is the cost of the amp.
> 
> The L700 also will have a different presentation, way more forward and with a more upfront midrange and vocal presentation. It also has excellent clarity and resolution in the mids. But the bass is fuzzy and loose, the imaging is somewhat diffuse, and the staging is more 2D than the 007. It's a very unique presentation and all Lambdas have it to some extent, and I can see people liking it over other headphones. Heck I have 3 different Lambdas right now so I get it. I would recommend it if you're not planning on getting anything past a 353x, or if you'll stick with it for a while. The L700 also needs EQ, there is about 5db too much midrange shout at 1.2k and the highs are a bit edgy. Not everyone is annoyed by that but I sure was. Lastly, the current Lambdas don't fit people with wider heads very well, especially the Mk1 versions, and if you have a big head you may have to mod them to get them to fit properly, which I had to do also.


I liked sound signature of Lambda L300 and L300 LTD better than 009. L700Mk2 were way too sharp on highs, I sold them. I also got rid of 009. To me only Lambda has that special intimate sound. And L300 is the king of intimacy. I'm thinking to sell L300 LTD and just keep L300.


----------



## lsantista (Oct 18, 2021)

For tjlindle yea, oo7 for jazz and 009 for classical is a way to sum up (remember my short experience is with oo7ii and 009S though).

Thank you Menkau-ra and catscratch (I know you werent responding to me but still the inputs were helpfull).

Regarding amplification for 007, I do have a modded 007T and also bought a carbon , I wish it was with me though. Had it sent to a friend in CT and I live in Brazil, still figuring out what to do about it (import taxes and bureacracy, lack of confidence in our mailing system, etc all taking a part). I dont like EQing but Im not against it, so may try one day. about bluetac.. there is no such thing in Brazil that I know of, will have to ask someone to include a bit on my next HP purchase.

Where I disagree with catsctratch is on the last paragrapgh, almost 100% opposite opinion!  Regarding L700 (mkII, never heard the mkI, just L500 ii and L700 ii). I dont think its imaging nor soundstage are worse than 007ii, a bit different maybe, and to my ears its bass may be thin/subdued, but never fuzzy and loose. Im not disputing your opinion of course! Ears and setups are different, just found it curious how my percepetion differs so much. I agree with most that the L700 have some shouty highs though. Also I was under the impression the mk I was a bit more confortable because of its headband all plastic structure. WHat a shame for me, cause I love the L700ii but cant wear it longer than 30 min now that I know where it will hurt around the ears and jaw. So my head is wide, you could say? well I dont think it is, and surely the first thing noticed when I put the 007A on (and the sennheiser hd700 FWIW) was how loose it was.

menkau-ra, I found the L500ii very similar to the L700ii, but it was like sound was coming from a "smaller speaker" compared to the 700, which I personally preferred. Do you think that's related to the intimacy you describe? (I admit Im expecting too much of other's descriptions, but I was a bit more curious on trying the L300/ltd before reading your perspective)


----------



## cat6man (Oct 18, 2021)

tjlindle said:


> A few questions for anyone who can offer some experience/advice:
> 
> 1. My favorite vintage Lambda is the Nova Classic due to its warmth and smoothness relative to a lot of the other Lambdas. That being the case, would I likely prefer the 007mk2 tonality over the 009?
> 
> ...



i agree with the others who have described the 009 as having more treble.
i find, however, that this is not an issue with r2r DACs like the totalDAC which are very detailed but not
bright.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I’ve been looking into the 007mk2. It is a good price and supposedly has good bass. I’ve been reading a few reviews, but I was wondering, for those of you with the 007mk2, what traditional pair of headphones are similar to them?  I don’t have any e-stats at the moment, so comparisons to other e-stats in reviews doesn’t really help me get a good understanding of their sound.


----------



## Menkau-ra

lsantista said:


> For tjlindle yea, oo7 for jazz and 009 for classical is a way to sum up (remember my short experience is with oo7ii and 009S though).
> 
> Thank you Menkau-ra and catscratch (I know you werent responding to me but still the inputs were helpfull).
> 
> ...


To me L300 LTD is more softer sound than L700Mk2. Same technology but LTD are not a treble murder like L700, they are more relaxing.
Maybe you need to try a headband from L300 for comfort? I can wear them all day long. They are the most comfortable headphones... sorry... earspeakers to me. They are super light and fit me perfectly even with stock pads. I LOVE how they look like, it's so original and vintage. When you change pads to L700 you loose intimacy a little. L500Mk2 are the same driver as L300, but with L700mk2 headband and L500 pads.

So if you like L700 you should try L300 LTD with stock pads and headband for a different sound and comfort you might like it better.

For me perfect headphone will be L300 with top bass and punch. But that's a limitation of electrostats. Also L300 are just fine with SRM-252S.
I will keep L300 just for perfect vocals, opera and jazz music. Everything else I would play on other headphones. 009 are technically better but you will not play EDM or rock on them. So why wasting money?

I feel like with L300 music bands are playing their songs in my room, just for me. There is nobody else, just me and the singer. I can touch the singer or the musicians if I want to. This is what I call intimacy. I don't know any other headphones that can play the same. Tell me if you know one.
L700 is like I am in a small bar sitting with other people around me. But here you already have plenty of dynamic or planar competitors. 009 have no intimacy at all.

I am not saying what's better for everyone. It's just a preference. I want intimacy and L300 is the intimate king.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Ciggavelli said:


> I’ve been looking into the 007mk2. It is a good price and supposedly has good bass. I’ve been reading a few reviews, but I was wondering, for those of you with the 007mk2, what traditional pair of headphones are similar to them?  I don’t have any e-stats at the moment, so comparisons to other e-stats in reviews doesn’t really help me get a good understanding of their sound.



I don't think there's a headphone to really compare to them really. They are very unique. They come within say 85-90% of the 009's technical ability, with much more fun bass. The bass can be just a bit loose at times, but generally still really good and enjoyable. They have the general stat goodness without a hint of brightness. Just slightly more closed in, a bit less detail. But definitely, better for some bass heavy genres and songs, and very enjoyable across the board.

I would either try to find a MK1 or read up on the various mods for the MK2 though. The MK2 is said to be a bit darker, with a few other caveats.. but I haven't heard them. I would say if you only have a stat system, they're almost a must have since most stats are closer to bass light. More of a toss up if you have a planar/dynamic rig in addition.


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## tjlindle (Oct 19, 2021)

I might look for an L700 concurrently with the 009 so I can A/B them. I'm sure the 009 is a much better technical set but I'm curious now how they compare.

Just out of curiosity is there any sort of consensus about what the best Lambda line, or even specific model, is? I would assume L700mk2 as the current TOTL Lambda, but I've read in a few places that the modern Lambdas have their detractors compared to the older lines.


DougD said:


> Don't know what you might be thinking of upgrading to as an e-stat driver, but the market value of a working SRM-1/Mk2 could be less than its value to you as a backup. As zolkis wrote, some of those normal bias Staxen have a sweet sound. If you have a dual-bias amp in the collection, even if it's not your go-to daily amp, you have more options. [Admittedly, those extra options are in the Old & Getting Older All The Time Dept.] That's the amp I'm using now, and if/when I upgrade, I'm keeping mine, for exactly the reasons stated above.


New amp is 353X so based on what I've read, it is a fairly small upgrade relatively speaking (i.e. when you consider how high the ceiling is with the third-party amps that are often mentioned in here).

Selling the SRM-1/mk2 is more about freeing up space than anything else. I'd probably sell it for around $400 (pretty much what I paid for it); would I pay $400 to keep the option to listen to the SR-X mk3 let alone any other normal bias sets? Hmm. I do really like the mk 3 so it's a tough question.

I've never been a collector type so the answer might depend on whether or not I want to keep rolling with these vintage Stax as a "collection." I bought all these to winnow them down to my favorite one (which I did so far - the Nova Classic), but it's hard to outright sell the rest despite them not being daily drivers. I really like them all.

If I do decide to keep them and add more then yea it would probably be smarter to keep the SRM-1/mk2. Or I'll have a SR-X mk 3 shaped paperweight lol.


----------



## dogrelata

KDS315 said:


> Well, the SIRIUS is EUR1,650 but it has a less expensive brother at EUR650 (!!), the SIRRAH: https://www-high--amp-de.translate....sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=nui which also is a TRANSISTOR Amp (with XLR inputs, but could be had with RCA inputs on request).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Over the last few weeks I've been spending a lot of time on various forums and knew I'd seen something about the Sirrah somewhere.  I've tracked it down again and it was on the 'other' site, where it got a hard time for its design and build quality of internals, etc.  I know that's par for the course over there, but it's still a bit disconcerting.

Thanks.


----------



## catscratch

I'm not surprised there are differences in how we hear the L700, it's very fit dependent. When I swapped the yokes on my L700 mk1 for socas3d ones, the fit changed and the sound changed quite a bit with it. When I put a mk2 headband on it, it sounded like the mk2. So obviously there's some variation due to fit going on.

In terms of comparing the 007 to traditional headphones, there really aren't any. Focals spring to mind since they're also very fast, resolving, and focused sounding, but the 007 is more V-shaped in its tuning whereas Focals are more mid-centric. However when I gave a Clear to a friend to listen to, his first comment was "this sounds like a 007," though to my ears not even the Utopia resolves like the 007 can.

If the 007's headband is loose, you can just bend it into shape and you won't damage anything. It's an archaic design without earcup articulation but the bendable headband and rotating pads do kinda make up for it.


----------



## shabta

dogrelata said:


> Over the last few weeks I've been spending a lot of time on various forums and knew I'd seen something about the Sirrah somewhere.  I've tracked it down again and it was on the 'other' site, where it got a hard time for its design and build quality of internals, etc.  I know that's par for the course over there, but it's still a bit disconcerting.
> 
> Thanks.


Those guys sure are opinionated, but if they say an amp isn't safe, I'd believe them. What bothers me about the SIRRAH and Sirius  is you only hear about the VRMS as if that was all that mattered. With electrostatic amps its important to know the current it feeds headphones (and maybe the slew rate). That's one reason why carbons and BHSEs sound so good, they provide a lot of current. Several times the best stax amp. Also the kevin gilmore designed power supplies and and and.


----------



## Tugbars (Oct 19, 2021)

high-amp's best ss amp has about 15mA current output and that is enough to provide full 20-20khz voltage swing in normal listening levels.


----------



## dogrelata

shabta said:


> Those guys sure are opinionated, but if they say an amp isn't safe, I'd believe them. What bothers me about the SIRRAH and Sirius  is you only hear about the VRMS as if that was all that mattered. With electrostatic amps its important to know the current it feeds headphones (and maybe the slew rate). That's one reason why carbons and BHSEs sound so good, they provide a lot of current. Several times the best stax amp. Also the kevin gilmore designed power supplies and and and.


Realistically I'll probably end up with a used 353X, 323S, 717 or maybe even a modded 727 and still be within budget.  Even through the Stax-less years, I've been keeping an eye on Mjolnir site and he sometimes has interesting budget offerings, including a protoype Octave II at the moment.  

Thanks.


----------



## shabta

Tugbars said:


> high-amp's best ss amp has about 15mA current output and that is enough to provide full 20-20khz voltage swing in normal listening levels.


That's really interesting. I couldn't find that info last time I looked (a couple of years ago), maybe I missed it. But it's there now . Anyway, that puts it way above a KGSSHV, almost as much as a SRX+ build. And probably good enough that unless you go to crazy volume that it will be enough for an SR007... Even then it should sound pretty fine. For comparison sake, I got a European builder to make me an SRX+ for 1800 euro. So, the price for the sirrius at 1650 seems fair.


----------



## KDS315

I have the high-amp ALPHA CENTAURY V9.5 hybrid amp now here to compare it with my SIRIUS V9 transistor amp.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

I compared the Sirius once against a modded 727 (gain and feedback). It barely had more headroom than the stax amp, before you could hear bass distortion. But that’s probably only an issue when listening loud with an EQed sr007. Sadly that was exactly my use case.


----------



## KDS315

DuncanDirkDick said:


> I compared the Sirius once against a modded 727 (gain and feedback). It barely had more headroom than the stax amp, before you could hear bass distortion. But that’s probably only an issue when listening loud with an EQed sr007. Sadly that was exactly my use case.


Well I listen with 80-85dB then there is plenty of headroom left.... :LOL:


----------



## shabta

DuncanDirkDick said:


> I compared the Sirius once against a modded 727 (gain and feedback). It barely had more headroom than the stax amp, before you could hear bass distortion. But that’s probably only an issue when listening loud with an EQed sr007. Sadly that was exactly my use case.


The big potential problem with eq is that you lower headroom. It's pretty bad news that a sirius doesn't do better than a modded 727. Maybe it was a much older iteration?

With an SRX+ the main difference I hear compared to a BHSE is at very loud volumes you have very slightly less bass extension and treble extension, with the 007. But I am not convinced by the Harmon curve so I can't say for sure after eq. I have eqed the 007 with out any noticeable distortion but I normally don't listen much louder than 85db, and have done an apples to apples eq with a BHSE or carbon


----------



## KDS315 (Oct 20, 2021)

I don't think (or assume) that an average listener will most likely ever encounter such situations, as I never before heard about that situation; and I also assume that many other amps will most likely behave similar, while listening at those mentioned levels and that music type. It is simple physics as headroom is what's left between average and max listening volume, so if you listen at say 80dB then there is 30db headroom left (max is 110dB as per Stax tech info), if you listen at 100dB then there is just 10dB left and of course then clipping and distortion with likely happen.

A very rare situation, never ever happend to me...


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

shabta said:


> The big potential problem with eq is that you lower headroom. It's pretty bad news that a sirius doesn't do better than a modded 727. Maybe it was a much older iteration?
> 
> With an SRX+ the main difference I hear compared to a BHSE is at very loud volumes you have very slightly less bass extension and treble extension, with the 007. But I am not convinced by the Harmon curve so I can't say for sure after eq. I have eqed the 007 with out any noticeable distortion but I normally don't listen much louder than 85db, and have done an apples to apples eq with a BHSE or carbon


I guess it was the current iteration. So my benchmark is 2:40 to 2:50 of Blake Neely, London 2166 for dynamic/peak impact. The only way I could get there with a bass port modded 007 + EQ was the carbon.


----------



## Axel (Oct 21, 2021)

Wanted to share an interesting experience.

I've recently journeyed back into head-fi after deciding to freshen my headphone setup.

Echoing a listening experience I've had ~15 years ago, I recall listening to the SR-007 and the matching Stax tube amp, the experience was sublime.
Even though in recent years I've based my headphone gear around planars, I always had a sweet spot for e-stats following this experience.

So, as part of my journey back, I've decided to try (in a parallel route) e-stats, specifically the SR-007.
I wasn't intending to spend too much, so the local dealer, from whom I've purchased the SR-007Mk2, provided me a demo unit of the SRM-006tS.

The sound coming from the SR-007 driven by the 006tS was "nice". Very polite and smooth, but it didn't have enough volume and I've felt it lacked involvement.
I've ordered from Mjolnir audio his version of the SRD-7 energizer to try it out with my speakers amps.

Reading reviews of such units and the feedback around in this forum (as in other similar forums), they are only recommended as a back-up plan, if a complete e-stat amp cannot be purchased.

Once I've connected the SRD-7 to my stereo amp (and preamp), the impact was immediate.
The sound completely transformed, as if I was listening to a different set of headphones.
The sound opened up, soundstage was huge and the instruments space was expended. Suddenly there were dynamics and impact and almost endless volume (I've reached ear-bleeding volume without any distortion).
The amazing thing is that it sounds so smooth and so right. Neutral, with a natural tone and timbre.

I'm awaiting a TOTL headphones amp (non e-stat) which is on-order. Once I receive it, it'll be interesting to hear how TOTL planars compare to the e-stat setup.

BTW, my stereo amp is able to show the wattage it outputs. When connected to the SR-007 through the SRD-7, it peaked at ~1W  during ear-bleeding sound levels.


----------



## John Wimberley

Axel said:


> Wanted to share an interesting experience.
> 
> I've recently journeyed back into head-fi after deciding to freshen my headphone setup.
> 
> ...


My experiences with transformers and speaker amps versus Stax amps have always been overwhelmingly positive. To the point that it’s now my preferred listening method, the only upgrade possible is better speaker amps.


----------



## tjlindle

Anyone have experience with pairing the RME ADI-2 DAC with a 009? Good synergy?

Looking at my chain, DAC is definitely the weakest link and I've been eyeing the ADI-2 for a while due to its performance and feature set.


----------



## makan

tjlindle said:


> Anyone have experience with pairing the RME ADI-2 DAC with a 009? Good synergy?
> 
> Looking at my chain, DAC is definitely the weakest link and I've been eyeing the ADI-2 for a while due to its performance and feature set.


Just by chance, I'm right now using that DAC with my headamp aristaeus and 009....sounds just fine!


----------



## Ciggavelli

So, eBay has a few people in Japan (with 100% feedback) selling the 700a. I’ve been doing research on that model and apparently it is better than the mk2, which people seem to dislike a lot. Does anybody here have the 700a?  Apparently it’s meant for the Japanese market. Also, any comparisons with the mk1 and 700a?


----------



## padam (Oct 23, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> So, eBay has a few people in Japan (with 100% feedback) selling the 700a. I’ve been doing research on that model and apparently it is better than the mk2, which people seem to dislike a lot. Does anybody here have the 700a?  Apparently it’s meant for the Japanese market. Also, any comparisons with the mk1 and 700a?


It's not better. Afaik 007A is 100% the same as the 007MK2 one has silver housing the other has the black housing, that's pretty much it, same production line, same everything.

The difference is that these headphones have been in production since 2007 and there has been at least two silent revisions which change the sound, the newest version has slightly different earpads as well (one giveaway at least - unless brand new earpads from this new batch were fitted...), the small port near the cable entry, they have started to close down that slightly as well. If one is selling new old stock pieces they might not sound the same as the ones that were produced just now. They started with SZ2 serials, then SZ3, later SZ2 serials have appeared again, so not really possible to trace back the year of manufacturing from the SN.
And of course the system configured heavily affects the sound, in some setups it can sound very unbalanced.


----------



## Ciggavelli

padam said:


> It's not better. Afaik 007A is 100% the same as the 007MK2 one has silver housing the other has the black housing, that's pretty much it, same production line, same everything.
> 
> The difference is that these headphones have been in production since 2007 and there has been at least two silent revisions which change the sound, the newest version has slightly different earpads as well (one giveaway at least - unless brand new earpads from this new batch were fitted...), if one is selling new old stock pieces they might not sound the same as the ones that were produced just now. They started with SZ2 serials, then SZ3, later SZ2 serials have appeared again, so not really possible to trace back the year of manufacturing from the SN.
> And of course the system configured heavily affects the sound, in some setups it can sound very unbalanced.


Thanks for the info! 

I guess it’s back to searching, or maybe I’ll just take the risk ( they offer free returns)


----------



## jsts

tjlindle said:


> Anyone have experience with pairing the RME ADI-2 DAC with a 009? Good synergy?
> 
> Looking at my chain, DAC is definitely the weakest link and I've been eyeing the ADI-2 for a while due to its performance and feature set.



My experience https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-009-which-dac-hugo-2-or-rme.916568/#post-16232474


----------



## KDS315

Yep, that’s why I do. But actally I use an amp in between


----------



## KDS315 (Oct 24, 2021)

Has anybody noticed that older STAX Amps use an 180 degress phase inversion? Meaning that pin 2 and 3 are switched as compared to the international Studio Standard?


----------



## Tugbars

yes, impulse responses from Tyll's measurements also reveal that. They must have a good reason for that. Generally, Stax is a weird company. And probably that's why we like them this much.


----------



## juwa

Can I connect a DAC with PIN 2 = hot and PIN 3 = cold to an older Stax amplifier with PIN 2 = cold and PIN 3 = hot? Should work anyway.


----------



## kzs70

KDS315 said:


> I have the high-amp ALPHA CENTAURY V9.5 hybrid amp now here to compare it with my SIRIUS V9 transistor amp.


I would be  interested in your comparison.
I also have the modded T1s with the SR-009 and still considering an amp upgrade, which one do you like the most with the 009?


----------



## KDS315

kzs70 said:


> I would be  interested in your comparison.
> I also have the modded T1s with the SR-009 and still considering an amp upgrade, which one do you like the most with the 009?


My T1 (CCS / ECC99) !!


----------



## kzs70

KDS315 said:


> My T1 (CCS / ECC99) !!


Thanks!


----------



## KDS315

kzs70 said:


> Thanks!


That same CCS/ECC99 upgrade can be easily applied to a T1S!!


----------



## kzs70

KDS315 said:


> That same CCS/ECC99 upgrade can be easily applied to a T1S!!


Yes, that's what I have, modded by Dominik Stritt like yours


----------



## KDS315

juwa said:


> Can I connect a DAC with PIN 2 = hot and PIN 3 = cold to an older Stax amplifier with PIN 2 = cold and PIN 3 = hot? Should work anyway.


You will get a 180 degree phase inversion, but I'll doubt you'll hear that


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Tugbars said:


> They must have a good reason for that.


Doubt it. Simply a lack of standard prior to 92. I tend to wire them according to the diagram on the back


----------



## AudioJon

AudioCats said:


> my first Stax purchase experience from yahoo.JP auctions, via Buyee:
> 
> 7-23: saw the 727 on yahoo.JP, placed "sniper bid" (Buyee will place the bid 5 minutes before the auction ends)
> 7-25: won auction, final bid 69000 jpy. Buyee fee 1000 jpy. Buyee took $655 out of my paypal right away. (actual conversion rate 106.8:1, while the market rate was a little over 110:1)
> ...


AudioCats, did Buyee deduct sales tax?

Thanks,
Jon


----------



## AudioCats

japan sales tax, if applicable, is part of the final auction price. 

There is no US tax/tariff so far. One of my purchase (a srm-007t) was opened by the custom, but I suspect it was due to the description on the form being too vague ("precision instrument").


----------



## Menkau-ra (Oct 31, 2021)

I've owned L300, L300 LTD, L700 Mk2 and SR-009. But still my favorites are L300. I am in love with that tuning. I can max out bass with Loki Mini+ on L300, but not on L300 LTD because it starts feeling overloaded. L300 have the best intimate vocals. Most of my music plays fantastic on L300. You can throw any low bitrate MP3 in L300 and they will make them sound better, with other Stax I will hear imperfections in the music.

This is just my opinion and my taste.


----------



## zomkung

Menkau-ra said:


> I've owned L300, L300 LTD, L700 Mk2 and SR-009. But still my favorites are L300. I am in love with that tuning. I can max out bass with Loki Mini+ on L300, but not on L300 LTD because it starts feeling overloaded. L300 have the best intimate vocals. Most of my music plays fantastic on L300. You can throw any low bitrate MP3 in L300 and they will make them sound better, with other Stax I will hear imperfections in the music.
> 
> This is just my opinion and my taste.



Try sr007


----------



## Menkau-ra

zomkung said:


> Try sr007


I am going to. Mk1 are hard to find in a good condition for a good price. Are Mk2 not as good?


----------



## zomkung

Menkau-ra said:


> I am going to. Mk1 are hard to find in a good condition for a good price. Are Mk2 not as good?



According to Spritzer. The latest mk2.9 with blutac mod is very close to mk1.


----------



## shabta

zomkung said:


> According to Spritzer. The latest mk2.9 with blutac mod is very close to mk1.


Pretty much the same, except that an MK2.9 will last for 20+ years and the MK1 is nearing end of life.


----------



## KDS315

Not to forget the cable inlet contact issues of the MK1 which have been solved with the Mk2!


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

zomkung said:


> According to Spritzer. The latest mk2.9 with blutac mod is very close to mk1.


The issue begins here. My 007 produced in March 2021 had the mk2.5 style pads again. I'd simply ignore the inofficial versions since no one knows what's going on exactly, and tune it to your ear.


----------



## Menkau-ra

zomkung said:


> According to Spritzer. The latest mk2.9 with blutac mod is very close to mk1.


How do I know if 007 are mk2.9?


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> I've owned L300, L300 LTD, L700 Mk2 and SR-009. But still my favorites are L300. I am in love with that tuning. I can max out bass with Loki Mini+ on L300, but not on L300 LTD because it starts feeling overloaded. L300 have the best intimate vocals. Most of my music plays fantastic on L300. You can throw any low bitrate MP3 in L300 and they will make them sound better, with other Stax I will hear imperfections in the music.
> 
> This is just my opinion and my taste.


I own L300, L300 LTD, L700 MK1 and SR-009.
L300 certainly stands out, even next to SR0-009 - it has the biggest "wow" factor.
If it wasn't for the thin bass, it would be my favorite. SR009 does everything right (with proper amplification), so I prefer it over L300.


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> L300 certainly stands out, even next to SR0-009 - it has the biggest "wow" factor.


146% agree on that. With stock L300 pads. 


BenF said:


> If it wasn't for the thin bass, it would be my favorite. SR009 does everything right (with proper amplification), so I prefer it over L300.


what amp do you use with 009?


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> 146% agree on that. With stock L300 pads.


Agree.
Here are some comparisons with L1000 (L300 with L700 pads):

*L300 with L300 pads *- amazing soundstage and clarity, largest wow factor.
                                      Bass is underwhelming in both quality and quantity. Too thin with little decay.

*L300 with L500 pads* - soundstage is increased over L1000, so is the clarity (but below L300 levels). 
                                      Not as warm as L1000.  Bass quality is about as good as L1000



Menkau-ra said:


> what amp do you use with 009?


My own version of Blue Hawaii on budget:
Airbow SRM-253s with the Litlle Bear P10 tube pre-amp - sounds fantastic! Even the bass.


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> *L300 with L500 pads* - soundstage is increased over L1000, so is the clarity (but below L300 levels).
> Not as warm as L1000.  Bass quality is about as good as L1000


L300 with L500 pads ARE L500  No?



BenF said:


> Airbow SRM-253s with the Litlle Bear P10 tube pre-amp - sounds fantastic! Even the bass.


I hoped you would have a different answer  How much power SRM-253S has? Also it costs around $500. For $500 you can get 353x, T1, SRM-1. They look bigger and more powerful. Does more power mean more bass? All I want is just to get more bass on L300 and I'll call it the end game for myself.


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> L300 with L500 pads ARE L500  No?


Yes, except some changes in the headband.



Menkau-ra said:


> I hoped you would have a different answer  How much power SRM-253S has?


This setup has plenty of power for 009, I usually set both volumes around 12PM.



Menkau-ra said:


> Also it costs around $500. For $500 you can get 353x, T1, SRM-1. They look bigger and more powerful. Does more power mean more bass? All I want is just to get more bass on L300 and I'll call it the end game for myself.


More power doesn't necessarily mean more bass.
The only way to improve L300's bass is to use the L500 pads (with the trade-offs described above).


----------



## arnaud

BenF said:


> More power doesn't necessarily mean more bass.
> The only way to improve L300's bass is to use the L500 pads (with the trade-offs described above).


While the pads are critical part of these headphones voicing, for estats, can’t deny beefier amps benefits in terms of bass control. Not clear myself if this comes from more power / headroom, use of regulated power supply, constant current sources in 3rd party amps though . 

You surely are managing to keep things on a budget though


----------



## tabness (Nov 1, 2021)

Menkau-ra said:


> L300 with L500 pads ARE L500  No?
> 
> 
> I hoped you would have a different answer  How much power SRM-253S has? Also it costs around $500. For $500 you can get 353x, T1, SRM-1. They look bigger and more powerful. Does more power mean more bass? All I want is just to get more bass on L300 and I'll call it the end game for myself.



STAX confusing Advanced Lambda series:

start with L500
• L300: same sound element in L500 but different (thinner) pads and headband assembly and cable
• L700: L500 with "009 sound element technology" and different (thicker) pads and cable
• L300 Limited: L700 sound element (or maybe stators only and not membrane? conflicting information) and L300 cable/headband assembly/housing and L500 pads with glossier finish with gold badge
• MK2 (L500/L700): matte finish on housing and removable cable and metal headband assembly

AIRBOW 253 has the exact same specs as the 252S (280 Vrms blah blah blah) with "audiophile" parts. You can also buy the PAC 253 power supply instead of the wall power supply for a bit more power (never tried it but want to). Whether it sounds better than the 252S or not I've never compared directly to say. I had a 353X to compare with and the 253S and 353X sounded incredibly similar (identical?). 252/3 and 353 should have the same circuit, 353 obviously has a beefier power supply.

In usage, I never needed the extra power of the 353X for my L500 or 009S. Pretty much between 11-1 (clock) on the dial, usually closer to 11 on the 253 itself for those two phones.

For "more bass" depends on what you mean. If you want more bass extension, there are mods to seal the new Lambdas as they are by design not sealed for a midbass hump (I never did them someone else might be able to help more). If you just want more bass like midbass, I'd use another amp like the new 500 amp (T1/S/W/006t/S/II line) which is tuned for that rather than the linear 252/3/353/400 line. I found the T1S to be nicer with the Lambda anyway because it was a bit too bright for me.


----------



## AudioCats

tabness said:


> .....
> ..... 252/3 and 353 should have the same circuit, 353 obviously has a beefier power supply.
> 
> ....



according to people in the know, "The 353 is a srm717 with all of the extra transistors removed". (Google that sentence to see the original posts.)



by looking at the schematics.... 252 is a lower power version of 313; 323 is very similar to 313.


----------



## BenF

arnaud said:


> While the pads are critical part of these headphones voicing, for estats, can’t deny beefier amps benefits in terms of bass control. Not clear myself if this comes from more power / headroom, use of regulated power supply, constant current sources in 3rd party amps though .
> 
> You surely are managing to keep things on a budget though


This is one of the few threads where a ~5000$ setup can be called "keeping things on a budget"  



tabness said:


> ...
> AIRBOW 253 has the exact same specs as the 252S (280 Vrms blah blah blah) with "audiophile" parts. You can also buy the PAC 253 power supply instead of the wall power supply for a bit more power (never tried it but want to).


Airbow does have their own power supply - PAC-253, but it's 300$ and single output.
I use this LPS with dual output instead - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC5...-noise-DC-linear-regulated/1000004386010.html
I asked them to reverse polarity, provide second cable and upgrade to Talema.
Measured it with a multimeter - 12.06v



tabness said:


> Whether it sounds better than the 252S or not I've never compared directly to say.


Using the LPS, couldn't hear any significant difference between 252 and 253.


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> Airbow does have their own power supply - PAC-253, but it's 300$ and single output.
> I use this LPS with dual output instead - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC5...-noise-DC-linear-regulated/1000004386010.html
> I asked them to reverse polarity, provide second cable and upgrade to Talema.
> Measured it with a multimeter - 12.06v


Why do you need second output? Does the plug fit the 252S power socket? 
Will my 252S with this LPS unit sound on the same level as 353x?


----------



## BenF (Nov 2, 2021)

Menkau-ra said:


> Why do you need second output?


I plug two amps into it.



Menkau-ra said:


> Does the plug fit the 252S power socket?


The plug is the same as in 252/253, you just need to ask to reverse polarity - or buy this cable https://www.ebay.com/itm/201485015842



Menkau-ra said:


> Will my 252S with this LPS unit sound on the same level as 353x?


Don't know about 353x comparisons, but with the P10 tube pre-amp, it gets me damn close to Blue Hawaii.


----------



## codimension1

JimL11 said:


> The 3.6 ohms resistance is probably the DC resistance. According to spritzer, Stax used 1:25 step-up transformers, which means the impedance is reduced by a ratio of 1:625. Since the headphone load is largely capacitative, nominally around 100 pf, the impedance ranges from around 80 megohms at 20 Hz to 80 kilohms at 20 kHz, so through the transformer, the amp sees an impedance between 128 kilohms and 128 ohms - this means the tap you use is non-critical. Another way of looking at it is that the amp sees a capacitor of around 63 nf. You need an amp that is stable driving a capacitative load - most tube amps qualify. Stax recommends a maximum input of 30 watts (presumably into 8 ohms), so pretty much any amp will work. Note that this will produce nearly 1100 volts peak-to-peak into the headphones, or nearly 112 dB SPL at 1 kHz given the common rating of 100 dB output for 100 VRMS. If you don't want to exceed the max rating, you could choose the tap depending on the amp power rating. For example, for a 15 watt amp you could use the 16 ohm tap, for 30 watts use the 8 ohm tap, and for a 60 watt amp, you could use the 4 ohm tap.


The 30 WPC amplifier that I am using with the SRD-7 Pro distorts a bit on high frequency transients, but sounds great through the SRD-7 at other frequencies.  Likely it does not appreciate the high (and capacitive) load resented by the transformer.  Would it help to place something like a 10-ohm wirewound resistor across the taps on each channel (in parallel with the SRD-7 load) so that the overall load seen by the amplifier becomes more resistive (and lower impedance overall)?  Since this will essentially also become a component of the step-up transformer circuit, I wonder if the change to the input impedance in this compound circuit would alter the tonality appreciably.  (For example, I wonder if the impedance curve engineered into the SRD-7 is designed to compensate for some frequency response aspects of Stax headphones, and by altering this impedance curve, this change might alter that frequency response compensation.) Also, might the different time constant for the parallel resistor as compared to the transformer affect the phase relationships of the signal ?


----------



## BrintaVett

I'm trying to find posts where xlr input for SRM-1 driver is explained/discussed but having a hard time finding them. Anybody who can point me in the right direction?


----------



## JimL11

codimension1 said:


> The 30 WPC amplifier that I am using with the SRD-7 Pro distorts a bit on high frequency transients, but sounds great through the SRD-7 at other frequencies.  Likely it does not appreciate the high (and capacitive) load resented by the transformer.  Would it help to place something like a 10-ohm wirewound resistor across the taps on each channel (in parallel with the SRD-7 load) so that the overall load seen by the amplifier becomes more resistive (and lower impedance overall)?  Since this will essentially also become a component of the step-up transformer circuit, I wonder if the change to the input impedance in this compound circuit would alter the tonality appreciably.  (For example, I wonder if the impedance curve engineered into the SRD-7 is designed to compensate for some frequency response aspects of Stax headphones, and by altering this impedance curve, this change might alter that frequency response compensation.) Also, might the different time constant for the parallel resistor as compared to the transformer affect the phase relationships of the signal ?


I don't know if putting a 10 ohm resistor in parallel with the SRD-7 will fix your distortion problem or not, but it probably won't hurt. There are a few amps that need an output load to be stable, and their manufacturers often recommend that they not be powered up without a speaker load connected. As far as I know the SRD-7 doesn't have any frequency response compensation for the headphones - that would imply that all their headphones have some common deviation that needs compensation.

Loudspeaker amps in general are designed to be voltage sources, more or less, which means their frequency response should be independent of load, since there is no way for an amp designer to know what loudspeaker  it is going to be used with. Similarly, loudspeakers are generally designed to be (more or less) flat when driven by a voltage source amplifier. Of course this is all in theory, in practice it's a different matter, which is one reason that amps and loudspeakers can sound different when matched, or mismatched, with one another. And of course, for example, not all loudspeaker designers have the same idea of what sounds "flat." Not to mention, not all listeners have the same idea of what sounds flat either - some think the SR-007 Mk I sounds flat, others that the SR-007 Mk II sounds flat, others that the SR-009 sounds flat, and still others think the SR-009S sounds flat. And that's just among Stax flagships - they all sound a bit different.


----------



## AudioCats

BrintaVett said:


> I'm trying to find posts where xlr input for SRM-1 driver is explained/discussed but having a hard time finding them. Anybody who can point me in the right direction?



I don't think the srm-1 (either the old old version or the mk2 ) have XLR inputs....?


----------



## JimL11

BrintaVett said:


> I'm trying to find posts where xlr input for SRM-1 driver is explained/discussed but having a hard time finding them. Anybody who can point me in the right direction?


Perhaps that is because the SRM-1 never had XLR inputs to begin with. Prior to the SRM-T1S, all of the Stax amps had single ended RCA inputs only. Based on the schematic, the SRM-1 MkII has a diff amp topology input section (but used single-ended) so in theory it could be modified to take XLR inputs. But you would need to install XLR jacks in place of the RCAs, and you would also need to replace the dual pot volume control with a quadruple pot such as is used in the T1S and later amps (assuming there is enough room to take the additional depth of the quad pots. Then you would need to wire the volume pots to the diff inputs (one of which in each channel is normally connected to ground in the SRM-1 MkII).

Note that the Stax pots, whether single-ended or balanced, use concentric shafts to control right and left channels so the quad pot would need to have the same shaft arrangement - specifically, two of the four pot sections would have to be connected to the larger shaft, and the other two to the smaller shaft, in order to allow for balanced R and L channel inputs. I believe that Stax special ordered these from Alps, and that they are not available for the typical consumer, which means you would have to cannibalize one from a broken Stax amp. If it's a working amp, it's going to be a more recent design than the SRM-1, and already has XLR jacks as stock, so is likely a better choice than modifying an old SRM-1 anyway.


----------



## tjlindle (Nov 9, 2021)

Freely admit this is a pretty silly question - assuming I get a good seal and swap the detachable cables, does wearing an L700mk2 backwards otherwise screw up the intended sound?

I've got the L500 and L700 on hand, I was going to post impressions vs. a couple vintage Lambda but I've just had a really hard time with the L700 pads. L500 is completely fine but the L700 gives me a pressure point right on my cheekbone that transforms into a headache after 30 mins to an hour. Wearing it backwards eliminates this completely.

I'm no stranger to this type of debauchery, I should post some pics of my Nova Classic. From what I can tell, it had had the yokes replaced...and the drivers were put on the wrong sides or something, which was "fixed" by reversing the contoured pads and putting them on the opposite driver. So it must be worn with the driver marked "left" on the right ear and vice versa (and this is fully correct - sounds intended to come only from stereo left or right will come from the appropriate driver), and as far as I can tell the pads are also backwards.

But it is actually very comfortable and it sounds good!


----------



## DougD

tjlindle said:


> Freely admit this is a pretty silly question - assuming I get a good seal and swap the detachable cables, does wearing an L700mk2 backwards otherwise screw up the intended sound?
> 
> ....
> 
> But it is actually very comfortable and it sounds good!


You have the headphones and ears. If it doesn't sound worse wearing them backwards TO YOU ... what else matters?

I find that wearing a baseball cap with headphones changes the head feel. (For me.) That's an easy thing to try.


----------



## tjlindle (Nov 9, 2021)

DougD said:


> You have the headphones and ears. If it doesn't sound worse wearing them backwards TO YOU ... what else matters?
> 
> I find that wearing a baseball cap with headphones changes the head feel. (For me.) That's an easy thing to try.


Well I agree 100% with that, if it sounds good then stop asking questions...but I'm curious if there is anything specific from a technical angle that actually gets messed up if you flip them around.

Re: a baseball cap, I already have a small washcloth folded twice-over that I put under the headband, otherwise the cups won't rest on my ears and will instead sink too low even on the lowest headband adjustment.

I guess I just have a smaller head than all of the Stax engineers 

On the positive side the L700 are definitely the most detailed headphones I've ever heard. If the tonality here is halfway between the 007 and the 009, I'm not sure I'd want to go further towards the 009 though. At this point the only reason I'd do so is out of sheer curiosity at the level of resolution and clarity. I mean as far as I'm concerned, I can't imagine needing more than this. (EDIT: But that was also what I said after I heard the Nectar Pollinators lol, and look at me now...)

Also, even though it can drive the L700, the 353x is definitely showing some of its shortcomings. The bass in particular is pretty flabby, even after EQ it is more present but the flabbiness is still there.

I read that one thing the mafia amps really help with is bringing the bass under control - I can totally see that now.


----------



## catscratch

Bass flabbiness could also be a bad seal. All of the new Lambdas are pretty prone to it. You can test it with a sine sweep or test tone generator and see how low the bass goes. It should be audible down to about 25hz or so, but if it rolls off really hard below 50hz and you have a bump somewhere around 50-100hz, you probably have a bad seal.

In my case, I had to mod the L700 with aftermarket yokes (or Y-forks or whatever they're called) to get it to seal properly. But when it does, the bass is pretty linear and well extended. The rest of the FR issues are solvable with EQ.


----------



## tjlindle

catscratch said:


> Bass flabbiness could also be a bad seal. All of the new Lambdas are pretty prone to it. You can test it with a sine sweep or test tone generator and see how low the bass goes. It should be audible down to about 25hz or so, but if it rolls off really hard below 50hz and you have a bump somewhere around 50-100hz, you probably have a bad seal.
> 
> In my case, I had to mod the L700 with aftermarket yokes (or Y-forks or whatever they're called) to get it to seal properly. But when it does, the bass is pretty linear and well extended. The rest of the FR issues are solvable with EQ.


Just "reseated" it on my head, did a sweep and yea it definitely rolls off where you said so it looks like I'll need to have more placement finesse.

It'd really be a shame if comfort/fit issues tanked these for me because man they sound awesome. As you said, EQ is great here. I put 3db around 2.2k, Q 1.5 and it really gave electric guitars some crunch, metal sounds awesome now.

The weirdest thing coming from the Nova Classics is...well, basically having an actual soundstage. I would say based on the Lambdas I've heard, stage is usually pretty intimate so it is nice getting some air here. I'm not used to it!

In some cases I prefer the more intimate stage though. With the L700, there's that classic electrostat speed and clarity, combined with the soundstage it really gives everything a sense of "place." The LNC doesn't do that at all, imaging is great in a directional sense but nothing really gets "placed" and so it truly sounds like stuff just materializes out of thin air, hits you and runs off. It can be almost creepy with the right music.

The L500 is great too but yea I've spent about 90% of my time so far with the L700. Coming from vintage Lambdas, it's the one that's intrigued me the most because it sounds so different.


----------



## BrintaVett

JimL11 said:


> Perhaps that is because the SRM-1 never had XLR inputs to begin with. Prior to the SRM-T1S, all of the Stax amps had single ended RCA inputs only. Based on the schematic, the SRM-1 MkII has a diff amp topology input section (but used single-ended) so in theory it could be modified to take XLR inputs. But you would need to install XLR jacks in place of the RCAs, and you would also need to replace the dual pot volume control with a quadruple pot such as is used in the T1S and later amps (assuming there is enough room to take the additional depth of the quad pots. Then you would need to wire the volume pots to the diff inputs (one of which in each channel is normally connected to ground in the SRM-1 MkII).
> 
> Note that the Stax pots, whether single-ended or balanced, use concentric shafts to control right and left channels so the quad pot would need to have the same shaft arrangement - specifically, two of the four pot sections would have to be connected to the larger shaft, and the other two to the smaller shaft, in order to allow for balanced R and L channel inputs. I believe that Stax special ordered these from Alps, and that they are not available for the typical consumer, which means you would have to cannibalize one from a broken Stax amp. If it's a working amp, it's going to be a more recent design than the SRM-1, and already has XLR jacks as stock, so is likely a better choice than modifying an old SRM-1 anyway.


I Read some posts saying that balanced could be modded to the SRM1 MK2 (I have the Pro version) but didn't know it also involved sourcing this volume pot. I Guess I'll just leave it as is then. Thanks for the reply!


----------



## catscratch (Nov 9, 2021)

tjlindle said:


> Just "reseated" it on my head, did a sweep and yea it definitely rolls off where you said so it looks like I'll need to have more placement finesse.



I used these on my Mk1 and it did the trick. Keep in mind that these yokes are longer than the standard ones, so if you are already at the tightest possible setting for the headband this will only make it worse. However something like Dekoni Nuggets can probably help in that case. You can also do the blu-tak mod to seal the driver to the baffle, but I haven't done it on mine, it feels like I don't have to and I prefer not to do any invasive surgery on my headphones unless it's necessary.

Yes, the L700 does have soundstage, not quite as impressive as on the 007 but far better than previous Lambdas. The left/right instrument separation in particular is very impressive, and you really do get the illusion of instruments appearing out of thin air as opposed to just having a ball of sound around your head like most headphones give you. At the same time, the L700 is quite tactile and does have slam - at least when given enough power - though bass tightness and resolve are still lacking in comparison to higher-end electrostats. It's a legit end-game headphone in its own right, not as technically impressive as some but very well rounded and surprisingly dynamic and tactile for an electrostat. And with a little bit of EQ, it also becomes one of the most neutral.


----------



## tjlindle (Nov 9, 2021)

So what are the portable amp options for these 'stats other than the D10 or running a 252s off a portable battery? I'll probably never get rid of the 252s purely because I LOVE the flexibility of taking a serviceable 'stat setup anywhere I want (paired with an LG phone as a DAC). Is there anywhere to go beyond 252s while keeping portability?



catscratch said:


> I used these on my Mk1 and it did the trick. Keep in mind that these yokes are longer than the standard ones, so if you are already at the tightest possible setting for the headband this will only make it worse. However something like Dekoni Nuggets can probably help in that case. You can also do the blu-tak mod to seal the driver to the baffle, but I haven't done it on mine, it feels like I don't have to and I prefer not to do any invasive surgery on my headphones unless it's necessary.


Thanks for all this info - Dekoni Nuggets in particular look like they might really help since I'm just constantly a _hair _too small for the tightest setting on these Lambdas.

I also agree that these are endgame-tier at least compared to TOTL non-electrostats I've heard. I've been listening to them basically all day for the past couple days and with a few little EQ adjustments they are really just remarkably good. Still having subbass extension problems (probably fit/seal-related) but honestly that doesn't bother me much since if I hit material that needs big subbass I have my Monarch IEMs for that.

Also, sort of tangential to the main reason you'd want headphones like these, but the bigger soundstage here compared to other Lambdas makes these awesome for gaming. Not insanely huge soundstage but just enough to make the excellent imaging more immersive, plus the usual 'stat technicalities.

I guess there's nowhere to go from here except 007, 009, or X9k right?

...Or I guess I could try Sigmas...


----------



## AudioCats

tjlindle said:


> ....
> I'll probably never get rid of the 252s purely because I LOVE the flexibility of taking a serviceable 'stat setup anywhere I want (paired with an LG phone as a DAC). Is there anywhere to go beyond 252s while keeping portability?



The 212/252 can be modded to improve quite a bit but still not quite as full-sounding as even a small desktop like a 313 (with the same mods applied).

Transportables like the 252 will not provide a lot of juice to run large phones, ok with Lambda types but nothing larger.


----------



## Bleeding Transistor

I posted this before on the "Introductions, Help and Recommendations" section and am reposting this here:

Hello Headfi., my first post here. I recently purchased the Stax SRM-1/MK2. It has both the normal and the pro connectors. I am confused about its voltage selection. The back of the unit says that it supports 100v, 117v, 220v and 240v. Also on the back there was a plastic plate that I unscrewed which only had multiple holes with the voltages written but no switch. This is the 'B' revision with just a backplate without a switcher. I wanted to know if the unit auto-switches the voltage or do I need to change it via jumpers or soldering. I live in USA so I need the voltage to be set to 117v. Pics attached 
















I prefer not to rewire so besides using a step-down transformer is there any way I could change the voltage to 117v?


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## AudioCats

It is probably hard-wired to one of the voltages. Hard to tell which one, from looking at the picture. 


my notes on 007t transformer (same wire colors on the primary side).

blue<--15v-->brown <--100v-->grey                  purple<--15v-->green <--100v-->white                      

there is a thermal switch betwen white and yellow.


----------



## Ciggavelli

So, my Woo Audio 3ES Elite is coming in a week or so, but I still have to wait for the X9000 and CRBN in December, if not January 

What’s the best “throwaway” pair of e-stats? I just want a pair to try out the 3ES. I’ve been looking at the Hifiman Jade II, but is there a better option at around the same price?


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## tjlindle

Ciggavelli said:


> So, my Woo Audio 3ES Elite is coming in a week or so, but I still have to wait for the X9000 and CRBN in December, if not January
> 
> What’s the best “throwaway” pair of e-stats? I just want a pair to try out the 3ES. I’ve been looking at the Hifiman Jade II, but is there a better option at around the same price?


Nectarsound Pollinator/Hive in my opinion. Great tuning and excellent technical performance. Of the 'stats I've tried I consider it the best in the sub-$1k range.

The Hive has great build quality and runs $600. The Pollinator used to be $350 and the only difference was build quality (identical drivers to the Hive). It is no longer sold though unfortunately - it was phased out entirely for the Hive.

I have a decent amount of 'phones I'm prepping to list on the classifieds here and one of them is a Pollinator, feel free to DM me if you're interested.


----------



## Ciggavelli

tjlindle said:


> Nectarsound Pollinator/Hive in my opinion. Great tuning and excellent technical performance. Of the 'stats I've tried I consider it the best in the sub-$1k range.
> 
> The Hive has great build quality and runs $600. The Pollinator used to be $350 and the only difference was build quality (identical drivers to the Hive). It is no longer sold though unfortunately - it was phased out entirely for the Hive.
> 
> I have a decent amount of 'phones I'm prepping to list on the classifieds here and one of them is a Pollinator, feel free to DM me if you're interested.


Thanks!  I’m gonna do a little research on those now. I appreciate the recommendation


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## AudioCats (Nov 11, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> ...
> 
> What’s the best “throwaway” pair of e-stats? I just want a pair to try out the 3ES. I’ve been looking at the Hifiman Jade II, but is there a better option at around the same price?



the safest bet is probably a pair of used 007A.

this pair will be about $1100 after the international shipping. 
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/b1017883434


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## timb5881

I can vouch for the Nectar Pollinator.  Great phones for the buck!


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## ThanatosVI

Ciggavelli said:


> So, my Woo Audio 3ES Elite is coming in a week or so, but I still have to wait for the X9000 and CRBN in December, if not January
> 
> What’s the best “throwaway” pair of e-stats? I just want a pair to try out the 3ES. I’ve been looking at the Hifiman Jade II, but is there a better option at around the same price?


Please share all the 3ES pictures. 
Which tubes will you use? Stock?


----------



## tycinis

AudioCats said:


> I don't think the srm-1 (either the old old version or the mk2 ) have XLR inputs....?



yep , only RCA on the SRM-1


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## Ciggavelli

ThanatosVI said:


> Please share all the 3ES pictures.
> Which tubes will you use? Stock?


Will do!  I'm going to be using upgraded Tak tubes


----------



## ThanatosVI

Ciggavelli said:


> Will do!  I'm going to be using upgraded Tak tubes


Tak 300B and Tak274B ?
Directly to the top!


----------



## lsantista

gonna be nice to watch this! maybe use the WA33 as pre to the 3ES


----------



## lsantista

I mean it... Im using the WA22 I received 2 days ago as pre to my  007T and the upgrade IMHO was bigger than going from the entry level D10 (the portable stax amp) to the 007T with a SS preamp.


----------



## musicman59

lsantista said:


> I mean it... Im using the WA22 I received 2 days ago as pre to my  007T and the upgrade IMHO was bigger than going from the entry level D10 (the portable stax amp) to the 007T with a SS preamp.


I agree. A tube preamp can do wonders.
I used to have the Stax 727 MkII with my 009 then I open it and set it to by pass de volume control and connected my McIntosh C2300 with NOS Mullard tubes and I was rewarded with much better sound.


----------



## tabness

So I recently missed out on getting a new T1S (old STAX era with the bronze faceplate too) and (what seemed to be) a new Lambda Nova Signature. Prices went just a bit higher than I felt like paying, but while I'm fine with losing out on the LNS for $1200ish as that is too much for me to consider for that, wish I coulda snagged that T1S lol (just outbid by 1000 yen lol)

https://zenmarket.jp/auction.aspx?itemCode=b1016268803
https://zenmarket.jp/auction.aspx?itemCode=u1016722771

Would have been nice to have a new old stock STAX setup circa 1994 lol

The LNS is the Lambda (along with the original normal bias one) I really want to hear. A much cheaper way to capture much of the the original Omega's timbre perhaps? As the classic Stereophile review states:

There is still the slightest hint of roughness in the upper-mids/low-highs region, which, by itself, lends an almost pleasing touch of realism. When compared to the Stax Omega, however, this revealed itself to be a form of coloration. As good as the Nova Sigs are—and as close as they come to the Omegas, which is _very_ close—the more expensive (and currently unavailable) headsets had an even greater sense of relaxed, natural musical detail.


----------



## tjlindle

tabness said:


> So I recently missed out on getting a new T1S (old STAX era with the bronze faceplate too) and (what seemed to be) a new Lambda Nova Signature. Prices went just a bit higher than I felt like paying, but while I'm fine with losing out on the LNS for $1200ish as that is too much for me to consider for that, wish I coulda snagged that T1S lol (just outbid by 1000 yen lol)
> 
> https://zenmarket.jp/auction.aspx?itemCode=b1016268803
> https://zenmarket.jp/auction.aspx?itemCode=u1016722771
> ...


Ooohh that's really interesting. LNS/LNC has my favorite timbre of any Lambda, now I really want to try the Omega and by extension X9k.


----------



## tabness

I actually had the Omega before selling it a while back, while I preferred the hyper clarity and exciting nature of the 009S and thus it in general, for some tracks, the natural timbre of the Omega was very nice. This was a little effort in me getting some of that magic back (of course you can find LNS around but I like to buy new/as new as possible).

How does the Nova Classic compare to the Signature if you've heard both?


----------



## KDS315

tabness said:


> I actually had the Omega before selling it a while back, while I preferred the hyper clarity and exciting nature of the 009S and thus it in general, for some tracks, the natural timbre of the Omega was very nice. This was a little effort in me getting some of that magic back (of course you can find LNS around but I like to buy new/as new as possible).
> 
> How does the Nova Classic compare to the Signature if you've heard both?


Try the 404 LE - this and the LNS are my favorite Lambdas!


----------



## tjlindle

tabness said:


> I actually had the Omega before selling it a while back, while I preferred the hyper clarity and exciting nature of the 009S and thus it in general, for some tracks, the natural timbre of the Omega was very nice. This was a little effort in me getting some of that magic back (of course you can find LNS around but I like to buy new/as new as possible).
> 
> How does the Nova Classic compare to the Signature if you've heard both?


When I had both it was still very early in my Stax journey so I only A-B'd them on the 252s. I will say there was no real discernible difference and thus I kept the cheaper pair which was the LNC. Those same LNC have scaled up incrementally with each new amp and so I really want to get a pair of LNS again to do another A-B with my current amps.

That being said, my understanding is that they have identical drivers but with different pads and cables, so I don't expect there will be much of a difference regardless even on better amps. Yea pads can make a big difference, I'm seeing that right now with the L-series, but they can also be swapped around or replaced so it's kind of a wash.

Now the one I *really* am curious to try is the Nova Basic. Spritzer actually has a nice one on sale at the moment and I've been debating picking it up for the past couple weeks.


KDS315 said:


> Try the 404 LE - this and the LNS are my favorite Lambdas!


Agree 100%. Love both LNS/LNC and the 404LE, latter was also a daily driver for me a while back.

I think I would say L700 is the best Lambda I've heard but I still think the LNS/LNC are my favorites. There is a very definitive technical upgrade in the L700 relative to the Novas but when I want to chill and just soak in the music, the Novas can't be beat, they are so warm and comfy. They are honestly a really great companion to the L700 in that respect.


----------



## thale

If anyone interested, here is my Stax setup:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-srm-252s-mods-summary.960608/

L300 + L700 pads + a good EQ is the perfect combination, especially considering the price.

The 252S is a very capable amp, often underrated, probably because not enough expensive? It has way enough power for the Lambda series with a good PSU.

The final touch is handled by EqualizerAPO.
IMO you can't be 100% satisfied of your audio setup, whatever the system and whatever the price, if you don't equalize it.
Equalization is a game changer and I don't understand why it's so rare in high end setup.

For Christmas I'll ask Santa Claus to bring me the new arc aluminum headband to replace the stock one in plastic.


----------



## elvispreasley (Nov 23, 2021)

Looking for general information and personal opinions about how the Stax energizers going to work with pre amps? I'm looking to receive soon Stax SRM-XH energizer to pair with my Perun Live Sound cans, which seems to be quite basic (energizer - not phones))), so I'm thinking would it benefit from my hybrid Garage1217 Project Ember amp, whych also has an analog input and can operate as a pre amp?


----------



## BenF

thale said:


> If anyone interested, here is my Stax setup:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-srm-252s-mods-summary.960608/
> 
> L300 + L700 pads + a good EQ is the perfect combination, especially considering the price.
> ...


L300 + L700 pads is so much better than the actual L700, it's not even funny.
252S is endeed an excellent amp, all it needs is a linear power supply to provide a great SQ - can be had under 100$.


----------



## Gazza

Got a question about using a Stax amp in an existing speaker set-up.

I have a 2-channel stereo with an integrated amp feeding a pair of speakers. I have a Woo WEE energiser connected so that I can use my 009 and select between speaker and headphone output.

I have seperate system which has a Stax SRM-007tII that due to moving pieces around in my new house I want to replace the WEE.

My question is: By inserting the 007tII into my speaker set-up will it let me switch between headphones and speakers without sound going through both at the same time? Typical headphone amps would take the tape-out feed from the amp/pre-amp into its line-in but I'm not sure if that would defeat the speaker output when my 009 is plugged in. The Stax 007 allows for a parallel out to an amp with the source component (in this case my DAC) going into the line in. Would this still have the sound going out to both the headphones and the speakers at the same time? I don't want to be constantly turning the Stax amp on-and-off every time I want to switch between the two.

I'm starting to think I should leave the WEE as is due to how convenient it is in operation. Yeah, it won't sound as good but I'm using this set-up for movies/games and not music.

FYI: My integrated amp (a Densen B-150) allows the pre section to be defeated so that it's used as a power amp but I'm not sure if that would help here.

Cheers.


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> L300 + L700 pads is so much better than the actual L700, it's not even funny.


How does the L300 sound change with L700 pads?


----------



## Not Deaf

Menkau-ra said:


> How does the L300 sound change with L700 pads?


Slightly bigger soundstage and the “in your head” feeling is lessened by just a little bit. Everything sounds slightly pushed back but it’s still the most intimate Stax, has all the Stax magic and hyper clarity, and everything is right in front of you to enjoy. Bass response is also increased slightly in quantity with a little less accuracy and more boom. L300s don’t have great bass accuracy or extension to begin with so it’s not that big of a deal to sacrifice for the comfort IMO.


----------



## thale

Menkau-ra said:


> How does the L300 sound change with L700 pads?


For me it's more bass, more presence, less treble (not by much) more soundstage and above all more comfort.
I'll never put back the stock pads.
Once equalized you can bring back the slightly missing highs if you want to but it's not necessary. (These Lambda Stax need an eq to sound right anyway)
However, the poor sealing provided by the stock L300 pads prevent from having a good low end, whatever the eq.


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> How does the L300 sound change with L700 pads?


Here are my comparisons with L1000 (L300 with L700 pads):
*L300 with L300 pads* - amazing soundstage and clarity, largest wow factor.
Bass is underwhelming in both quality and quantity. Too thin with little decay.

*L300 with L500 pads* - soundstage is increased over L1000, so is the clarity. Not as warm as L1000.
Bass quality is about as good as L1000

I do prefer L300 with its original pads over the other options for anything that doesn't involve bass.


----------



## Audio Addict

Has anyone tried the Bottlehead ES?

https://bottlehead.com/product/stat-electrostatic-headphone-energizer/


----------



## bigjako

Audio Addict said:


> Has anyone tried the Bottlehead ES?
> 
> https://bottlehead.com/product/stat-electrostatic-headphone-energizer/


I’ve got that blue one in your link.  It’s really wonderful, especially with my NBs.   Does not power my ES-1a very much but it goes well with the Lambdas quite nicely.   Makes mine sound sweeter and warm but still so very Stax.  Less detail and power than my CCS modded 006 and less bass slam than my SRD7 / Emotiva a100. Tube rolling changes the sound.  With the NB, it’s one of my favorite Stax Combos. 

It’s called the Stat, though, not the ES. Or at least that’s what I do.


----------



## dkdali

My SR-009 have started to misbehave…. The right side will over a period if about 5min lower itself to above 50% volume….
I can reset the lowered volume by pressing where the “R” logo is on the cable relief.
There is no scratching or other sound defects- just lower volume…
Is this a known defect with a easy fix or do i need to send them in for service?
And do any of you know of a hood service provider in the Denmark region?


----------



## bigjako

bigjako said:


> I’ve got that blue one in your link.  It’s really wonderful, especially with my NBs.   Does not power my ES-1a very much but it goes well with the Lambdas quite nicely.   Makes mine sound sweeter and warm but still so very Stax.  Less detail and power than my CCS modded 006 and less bass slam than my SRD7 / Emotiva a100. Tube rolling changes the sound.  With the NB, it’s one of my favorite Stax Combos.


Your question made me listen to the ES-1a - Stat combo again and I take my comment back about the Stat not powering the ES-1a.  There is less detail, and less of a 3D soundstage, but on the Stat it feels fuller and with more mid-bass (less sub-bass).  If I had to compare the sound, I'd say that Stat-ES combo sounds more like an Aeolus while the 006t sounds more like an LCD2C.  Not directly like that, but that is the direction each amp pushes these cans.

I'm going to post a more detailed review of the ES-1A vs the L300 LEs vs the NBs here at some point.  The ES-1a's are endgame-worthy for me, and Benson has been so helpful to me with both those and his Sigma replicas that I want to shine a light on this cans.


----------



## leilei787

guys, i have a stupid question. i recently acquired a BHSE, and it takes about 20-30s after starting before i can hear anything...is that normal? Usually my other tube amps start to make sound ( low volume) right after turning on....is it really taking that long for BHSE to get warmed up?

thank you!


----------



## bearFNF

leilei787 said:


> guys, i have a stupid question. i recently acquired a BHSE, and it takes about 20-30s after starting before i can hear anything...is that normal? Usually my other tube amps start to make sound ( low volume) right after turning on....is it really taking that long for BHSE to get warmed up?
> 
> thank you!


Yep, it needs a warm-up, just wait for both of the front lights to come on. But it really take about 30-45 minutes for full warm-up. some like to wait over an hour or so for it's "true" sound.


----------



## leilei787

bearFNF said:


> Yep, it needs a warm-up, just wait for both of the front lights to come on. But it really take about 30-45 minutes for full warm-up. some like to wait over an hour or so for it's "true" sound.


got it, appreciate for your answers!


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

dkdali said:


> My SR-009 have started to misbehave…. The right side will over a period if about 5min lower itself to above 50% volume….
> I can reset the lowered volume by pressing where the “R” logo is on the cable relief.
> There is no scratching or other sound defects- just lower volume…
> Is this a known defect with a easy fix or do i need to send them in for service?
> And do any of you know of a hood service provider in the Denmark region?


Best case scenario: cold solder joint. It's fixable, but if you're still in warranty, just contact your dealer.


----------



## KDS315

dkdali said:


> My SR-009 have started to misbehave…. The right side will over a period if about 5min lower itself to above 50% volume….
> I can reset the lowered volume by pressing where the “R” logo is on the cable relief.
> There is no scratching or other sound defects- just lower volume…
> Is this a known defect with a easy fix or do i need to send them in for service?
> And do any of you know of a hood service provider in the Denmark region?


Well, indeed it sounds like a cold soldering point. In Denmark https://headfreaks.eu/ should be able to help you with a hood.


----------



## dkdali

KDS315 said:


> Well, indeed it sounds like a cold soldering point. In Denmark https://headfreaks.eu/ should be able to help you with a hood.


Thank you for the input!
I will give headfreaks a call as the last two emails i send them (regarding a new headband) they have not replied to…


----------



## KDS315 (Dec 4, 2021)

Just got a new STAX D10 for mobile use from headfreaks DK. Nicely made, sounds pretty well, a bit missing lows and bit enhanced highs, easily compensated using the ROON CONVOLVER. As is, it sounds best with the original Lambda Pro for me. 009 works well, but a bit too weak to drive a 007 even at max volume, as expected.


----------



## tumpux

How do you use Roon for mobile use?


----------



## Lux Aeterna (Dec 4, 2021)

Time to change tubes in my Stax SRM 006ts, and I need a little advice...
I am under the impression that RCA Cleartops are a good alternative to the original Electro Harmonix tubes.
The provider I have found has different options on the tubes; Balanced, Low Noise, Matching and High Gain.
I suppose the first three are good options to check, but a bit uncertain about the "high gain"?   
Will it still be within specs? 
Will the noisefloor and total dynamic range in "high gain" be identcal or better than ordinary tubes?  
What do the experts (you guys) recommend i go for?          
Thanks in advance  
(and if any of you made the change from EH to RCA in the 006ts, what has been your experience?)


----------



## KDS315 (Dec 5, 2021)

A "Matched Pair" for sure, makes the needed adjustments after tube change of your 006T easier; if those could be MATCHED and LOW NOISE it would make a great combo. High Gain is not needed, the overall 60dB (1000x) gain is anyway set by the negative feedback this amp has built in. Personally I'm not a friend of "tube rolling" for better sound; neutral is great for me that is (as long as it is not sharp and hopefully no microphonic tubes), as it easily allows to make needed adjustments using ROONs convolver...


----------



## KDS315

PS: personally I prefer Electro Harmonix, TUNG-SOL or JJ GOLD-Pin tubes


----------



## timb5881

KDS315 said:


> A "Matched Pair" for sure, makes the needed adjustments after tube change of your 006T easier; if those could be MATCHED and LOW NOISE it would make a great combo. High Gain is not needed, the overall 60dB (1000x) gain is anyway set by the negative feedback this amp has built in. Personally I'm not a friend of "tube rolling" for better sound; neutral is great for me that is (as long as it is not sharp and hopefully no microphonic tubes), as it easily allows to make needed adjustments using ROONs convolver...


Matched pair really is applicable for push pull type amps where each side needs to match the other.  I do think balanced sides would be more important than matched tubes.  Low noise tubes are desired in phono stages and low microphonic tubes in general are desired, especially for a microphone.   Not sure what the seller is getting at with high gain, unless they are low noise to be used such as moving coil phono cartridges where more gain is needed.  All of the tubes needed should be the same gain, and as far as I know, all the tubes used for the Stax amp are only of one gain.


----------



## elton7033

Finally arrived!!!!


----------



## batfier

elton7033 said:


> Finally arrived!!!!


according to your picture it looks like you have ordered a 0006X
😏


----------



## elton7033

batfier said:


> according to your picture it looks like you have ordered a 0006X
> 😏


stupid i phone camera like to upside soen my photo by some reason hehe
but yeah i am very impress the 0006X(X9000) sound very well with the t8000 in the shop which the CBRN next to it dosent have enough power to shine.


----------



## Vanheim

hey good folks! I need a recommendation for an energizer for my stax sr-009S, hopefully under $1200. Definitely willing to go used and smaller the form factor the better!


----------



## elton7033

Vanheim said:


> hey good folks! I need a recommendation for an energizer for my stax sr-009S, hopefully under $1200. Definitely willing to go used and smaller the form factor the better!


for that price point i will recommand the normal kgss or if you want stax stuff the 717/727 might be the best for my taste 
although some of my friends does prefer rolling tubes


----------



## Vanheim

would prefer solid state, how's the new stax srm-400S?


----------



## Vanheim

elton7033 said:


> for that price point i will recommand the normal kgss or if you want stax stuff the 717/727 might be the best for my taste
> although some of my friends does prefer rolling tubes


I wouldn't mind going tubes either considering I don't really roll them.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Vanheim said:


> would prefer solid state, how's the new stax srm-400S?


400S is not much better than SRM-252S. I've had both.


----------



## BenF

Here is a setup, which (at least tonally) will give you an experience very close to Blue Hawaii:
1) 252S or 253S
2) Linear power supply - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000004386010.html .
You can either ask the seller to reverse the polarity, or buy a cable that reverses polarity. Upgrade to the Talema transformer, it's too cheap to pass.
3) A hybrid tube pre-amp https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32882901310.html

009 and 009s aren't hard to drive, 252S/253s in this setup delivers plenty of headroom and impactful bass on my 009.


----------



## ufospls2

Well, after ten years, and countless headphones, I've joined the dark side. I've always felt my favourite sonic traits were better served by other headphones, but a good deal locally came up on a BHSE, so I jumped on it. I also picked up a pair of SR007mk2 from the same person. Enjoying what I'm hearing so far. Wouldn't replace my other headphones, and I wouldn't buy them over those also, but as a compliment? Very happy with them thus far. Seriously considering a pair of CRBN now.


----------



## Vanheim

Snagged one srm-727a in mint condition, can someone explain to me the difference between normal mode and bypass mode of this energiser?


----------



## ufospls2

Heres a quick photo of how things are currently. Going to try and figure out a better table for them, but yeah.


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## Vanheim

ufospls2 said:


> Heres a quick photo of how things are currently. Going to try and figure out a better table for them, but yeah.


Beautiful! Can’t wait to hear your impressions of it!


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## ThanatosVI

ufospls2 said:


> Heres a quick photo of how things are currently. Going to try and figure out a better table for them, but yeah.


Get that order for the CRBN in, wait times are insane


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## Menkau-ra

Ferrum Hypsos - hi end power supply that supports SRM-252S. Interesting how much better is the sound with it.


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> Ferrum Hypsos - hi end power supply that supports SRM-252S. Interesting how much better is the sound with it.


$1200 LPS for SRM252S?
Doubt it will improve SQ over the $46 one on Aliexpress...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/post-16700076


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## leilei787

Guys, selling my woo audio Wes 2nd Gen energizer. Great Amp for 009. Pure tube magic. It is on classified Ads section. Thank you!


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## tjlindle (Dec 10, 2021)

Well damn. Routine putting the Nova Classic on my head getting ready to jam... *crack!!* there goes the plastic frame. Right down the middle.

Taped it up and it looks pretty scuf now but hey, drivers are still fine!  sob

Aluminum version frame/headband replacement on Stax USA for $220, I don't know if I want to do that or just leave it as-is...it definitely has a lot of, er, character now.


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## dleblanc343

ufospls2 said:


> Heres a quick photo of how things are currently. Going to try and figure out a better table for them, but yeah.


Nice kit!

You seriously need a baby orpheus now!


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## bigjako

I've been meaning to post an update for a long time, but the months fly by.  I recently came across a used ES Labs ES-1a and got help from Benson at ES to fix the broken headband and wanted to share my experience with that headphone and compare it to my L300 LE and a little mod project of mine, where I took an L300, applied the SOCAS Pad Mod (and ZMF Lambskin Ovals, along with the full blu-tak mod (to both the driver housing and to the ported SOCAS bracket) - my goal was to try to bass the hell out of the L300.  I've run them on a CCS-modded 006t (Dominik's) and the Bottlehead Stat. 

First the headphones: the L300 was my best-in-class headphone and to some degree it still definitely is, but it's also the one that's most directly comparable to the ES-1a and suffers in some ways from the comparison.  My Lambda NBs (or my Sigmas) are just apples and oranges to the ES-1a, their use cases don't overlap.  I love my NBs on the Stat (and on the SRD-7, which drives really nice bass out of them).  On the 006 the NB is a little harsh on the high end (I think the CCS mod really pushes the 006 into Solid State-like zones).  As I've spent time with the ES1a, the L300s got the biggest hit in headtime, so let's start there.

*ES-1a vs L300 Limited Edition*
The ES has a much more expansive soundstage (and the L300 LE itself has a bigger soundstage than the L300).  I came back to the LE's recently, and I think they still paint a picture of the music like a big, detailed, colorful tapestry, but everything is threaded together and connected.  A blended soundscape.  Whereas the ES-1as have much sharper edges, more incisive cuts (which sometimes can be a little harsh on the 006, too).  It's like that tapestry was cut up into multiple bits and hung across a really big, wide and tall soundstage.  Less cohesive and more separated.  Better Git it in Your Soul by Charles Mingus is a good example, the horns and bass and drums and crowd noise are so totally separated and distinct, and the horns just jump right through my ears - in a good, vibrant way (wow).  The LEs present things more cohesively, more connected but more intimately too.  None of those are bad things, but they lack the wow factor of the ES1a to me - but they are still damned amazing.  You might say the LEs are a well-choreographed dance ensemble while the ES1a is like some mad breakdancing freak of electrostatic nature. 

Now with bass, it's not really a competition, at least with sub-bass.  The ES-1as, I crap you not, approach LCD-2C levels of sub-bass (I suspect if I forced a seal, like I get with the LCDs, it would be a near-tie).  I am trying to get a Lokius, but I've been testing our digital EQ via SoundSource, and they really do take the bass as I EQ it in.  Most will disagree, but I don't like software EQ (don't hate, it's just how I feel) and so I'm really keen to get Lokius in (though moreso for the ZMF/SoCas L300 project).  LE bass is nice - I like the Lambda levels of bass just fine, but the ES-1a's really bring that planar level of sub-bass).  I had the Kaldas RR-1s once (actually, twice) and the ES-1a beats them in the sub-bass, to my recollection.  

Note on 007/009 comparisons: I have only heard the 007 and 009 at the most recent CanJam, on a BHSE.  It's not the best place to get a solid impression or foundation with those cans (at the same time, I listened to them on a freaking BHSE, so it's better than my setup... maybe that cancels it out and I got a balanced experience). I preferred the 007 on the BHSE, I heard the weird tonal balance on the 009.  Based on my limited experience, I would say that the ES1a was what I call the 008 - it had the bass and tone of the 007 but had the fast and forward nature of the 009 without its tonal character.  Also to be fair, I listen to the ES1a on my Stat and CCS'd 006t, which are NOT BHSE's.  

The ES1a is really fast, even for an estat. It suffers in the mid-bass from that, relative to the LEs.  Mid-bass is great for an estat, but I think of this as more of a v-shaped estat.  For electronic music, I really like the way the ES1a places and highlights all the detail.  That changes, though, when I put it on the Stat.   That placement and detail get fuzzed away on the Stat but you get something akin to the NBs - warmer, sweeter, syrupy and definitely a more intimate, musical and less detailed stage. Different, not better for worse (at least depending what you're looking for).  I have way too many Staxen but I just love them - for now, my ES-1a is my most technically-adept and impressive estat. The other Staxen have their magic moments too, this just allowed me to finally hear what the 007/009 people were experiencing and open up the aperture of the estat experience for me.  

I was going to compare to the modded L300s (the ones with the orange SoCas yokes in the pics), but this is already too long of a post so I'll save it.  I really had been meaning to sing the praises of Benson over at ES Labs.  I have one of his replica Sigmas (with 404 drivers) that I bought directly from him - it doesn't get a lot of head time because it's suitable for very specific genres - but Benson was amazingly helpful and patient with me with that.  I bought my ES-1a's used, yet he was still as gracious and helpful as ever as I sorted through some questions and repairs.  For that matter, Paul from Bottlehead was a saint when dealing with my "estat shipping disaster" issues for a used buy, too.  

There is way too little info on the Stat.  It has been one of my favorite pieces of gear and turns my estats into warm, detailed and airy cans - at least the Lambdas (particularly the NBs, but also the Pros and the L300s).  It's not cheap (what quality amp is in electrostatics, anyways?  maybe the SRD-7 with a good speaker amp).  It is a great amp, I love tube rolling it (you don't really need matched pairs).  Anyways, I shall never part with it.  One day, I will have a BHSE or Carbon and a 007 or Perun, but for now the gear I have gives me a lot of options and, most importantly for me, fun.


----------



## yangviolin

Is 007mk2 a better fit with a Woo Wes than 009/009S? Here is a Woo Wes on Ebay for sale.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/133969168886?hash=item1f312f49f6:g:I6cAAOSwdPNhuhKe


----------



## number1sixerfan

yangviolin said:


> Is 007mk2 a better fit with a Woo Wes than 009/009S? Here is a Woo Wes on Ebay for sale.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/133969168886?hash=item1f312f49f6:g:I6cAAOSwdPNhuhKe



It's the opposite. 007 is just too warm to pair with the WES imo. The 009 and most other stax sound really, really good with it however. 

----------

Also, I have a pair of L300 just sitting around. According this thread I should take a pass at modding them?


----------



## lsantista

number1sixerfan said:


> It's the opposite. 007 is just too warm to pair with the WES imo. The 009 and most other stax sound really, really good with it however.
> 
> ----------
> 
> Also, I have a pair of L300 just sitting around. According this thread I should take a pass at modding them?


I got  Socas modded L500 (sony pads) last week and loving it, but need more time with it before posting my impressions and comparisson to my L700-ii. but to m y taste (I tested an original L500ii at the dealer side by side with the L700ii), the mod resulted a big upgrade


----------



## bigjako

I have the Socas Pad-mod with ZMF Lambskin Oval pads.  I got the ported Socas mod, but have covered the port with blu tag (as well as done the blu-tak mod to the cans themselves).  I removed the blutak from the Socas mod quickly but did not notice much of a difference either way.  My goal with the mod is to get the bassiest Stax I could mod, and they are that.  One note - if you have a big head and use thick pads you may stretch the headband as far as it could go (I think those Sony pads count as thick, as do the ZMFs).  I'm working on a 3d-printed headband to give me more room to play, but in the meantime, I've swapped headbands with my L700 headband and that works just fine. 

It's a fun little project, go for it.


----------



## elton7033

yangviolin said:


> Is 007mk2 a better fit with a Woo Wes than 009/009S? Here is a Woo Wes on Ebay for sale.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/133969168886?hash=item1f312f49f6:g:I6cAAOSwdPNhuhKe


Before you buy I think its better to let you know that there's a rumor that WOO WES are missing some resistor on it output which can potentially fried your electrostatic headphone, but to be honest, I never saw one being actually fried in many years of my electrostatic jounery.


----------



## micon

I've had a lot of electrostatic headphones. that's why I made an adjustable bias.
I fed 730 volts to my favorite 007, no problem. but if you feed 1000 then you will hear not pleasant sounds....


----------



## ri_toast

micon said:


> I've had a lot of electrostatic headphones. that's why I made an adjustable bias.
> I fed 730 volts to my favorite 007, no problem. but if you feed 1000 then you will hear not pleasant sounds....


quite a project, nice idea. I assume you can get "normal" out of it as well?
I just recently pulled my stax equipment out and setup a dac from a tablet otg. Really enjoying the sr5, original Lambda and a 407 again. Keep thinking about the 007 and the synergy with a srm-1 mk2 professional.
I listened a few years ago to the 009 and 007...thought they were both great, leaned toward the 7's .... go figure


----------



## padam

If you are going for a 007, the SRM-1 Mk2 Pro might be too sweet and warm for it, it was made in conjuction with the NB Lambda and Lambda Pro, better synergy there.
A feedback modified SRM-727II or a CCS modified SRM-T1S are probably the bare minimum, but it is recommended to go higher, or use a transformer-based solution.


----------



## number1sixerfan

If you're going to spring for the 007 or 009, you really need a better amp than the SRM-1 MK2. It is my backup amp and I've had to use it a lot lately in between amps and it simply does not cut it. The 009 loses it's spaciousness and dynamics.. barely has any bass response with it, and it can barely drive the 007 adequately. 

It can suffice temporarily, but you leave a lot of performance on the table in comparison to the better amps out there.


----------



## shabta

number1sixerfan said:


> If you're going to spring for the 007 or 009, you really need a better amp than the SRM-1 MK2. It is my backup amp and I've had to use it a lot lately in between amps and it simply does not cut it. The 009 loses it's spaciousness and dynamics.. barely has any bass response with it, and it can barely drive the 007 adequately.
> 
> It can suffice temporarily, but you leave a lot of performance on the table in comparison to the better amps out there.


WIth a couple of caveats, the SRM-1 MK2 is just fine for the SR007. The first is that mostly it needs to be recapped, due to age. People who complain about the SRM-1 MK2 with the 007 are really likely listen to an amp that is way out of spec. The second caveat is how loud do you like to listen? At moderate volumes, you have to get to a BHSE or Carbon to hear much of a difference. Even then it's only when you play the amp really really loud that you hear the biggest difference. The 007 bass on a properly restored SRM-1 MK2 is quite ok. But I suppose if you're going to spend 007 money on a headphone at some point you need to get a better amp than the SRM1 MK2. But I think it's a huge exaggeration to say that the amp is barely adequate. Yes you're leaving some unrealized performance on the table. But to a lot of people, listening at moderate volume, I wonder if that difference is so important for the expense involved. Full disclosure, I have a recently recapped SRM1MK2 and a better amp (SRX +) and a 007.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

I tend to agree. For me, the 007 was difficult to drive due to huge bass shelf and louder volume with highly dynamic library. Basically nothing short of KGBH, KGGG or Carbon solved that for me, and then it didn't sound good to me at higher SPL. If you listen at 70db without eq, for example, a d10 will work fine.


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## number1sixerfan (Dec 24, 2021)

shabta said:


> WIth a couple of caveats, the SRM-1 MK2 is just fine for the SR007. The first is that mostly it needs to be recapped, due to age. People who complain about the SRM-1 MK2 with the 007 are really likely listen to an amp that is way out of spec. The second caveat is how loud do you like to listen? At moderate volumes, you have to get to a BHSE or Carbon to hear much of a difference. Even then it's only when you play the amp really really loud that you hear the biggest difference. The 007 bass on a properly restored SRM-1 MK2 is quite ok. But I suppose if you're going to spend 007 money on a headphone at some point you need to get a better amp than the SRM1 MK2. But I think it's a huge exaggeration to say that the amp is barely adequate. Yes you're leaving some unrealized performance on the table. But to a lot of people, listening at moderate volume, I wonder if that difference is so important for the expense involved. Full disclosure, I have a recently recapped SRM1MK2 and a better amp (SRX +) and a 007.



Yea what you just mentioned is my entire point. I would never spend $1.5 - $2.5k or more on headphones just to bottleneck their performance significantly. Just doesn't make any sense to me.

But I would have to highly disagree on the volume point. I have the SRM-1 and a mini T2 prototype side by side and at any volume it is seriously a night and day difference performance wise with either the 007 or 009. The Shangri-la is nearly a non-starter altogether with the stax amp. My opinion also has been the same when the amp was newer years and years ago.

But definitely, if you need to get by for the time being, sure. But no, I can't at all in good faith recommend using one with TOTL electrostatic headphones if you want to get most out of them.


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## shabta (Dec 24, 2021)

number1sixerfan said:


> Yea what you just mentioned is my entire point. I would never spend $1.5 - $2.5k or more on headphones just to bottleneck their performance significantly. Just doesn't make any sense to me.
> 
> But I would have to highly disagree on the volume point. I have the SRM-1 and a mini T2 prototype side by side and at any volume it is seriously a night and day difference performance wise with either the 007 or 009. The Shangri-la is nearly a non-starter altogether with the stax amp. My opinion also has been the same when the amp was newer years and years ago.
> 
> But definitely, if you need to get by for the time being, sure. But no, I can't at all in good faith recommend using one with TOTL electrostatic headphones if you want to get most out of them.


I think we hear things very differently. I would never ever want to own a hifiman Shangri-la SR. I thought it sounded (on hifiman's set up) much worse than a Susvara and and especially a Senn HE 1. Not even close. I listened to them all over 2 or three hours with my music in a very quiet amsterdam headphone store. Not saying with your ears you are wrong, just as usual YMMV.


----------



## number1sixerfan

shabta said:


> I think we hear things very differently. I would never ever want to own a hifiman Shangri-la SR. I thought it sounded (on hifiman's set up) much worse than a Susvara with a as well as an Senn HE 1. Not even close. I listened to them all over 2 or three hours with my music in a very quiet amsterdam headphone store. Not saying with your ears you are wrong, just as usual YMMV.



Yes, if the SGL sounds 'much worse' than the Susvara (of which they share more similarities than otherwise), we certainly have different ears.  But I don't at all get what that has to do with anything about relative amp performance lol.

It doesn't matter if we're talking the SGL, the 007 or the 009, they are all clearly limited via side by side comparison on the SRM-1 MK2 imho. The thing that's so odd to me is that with planars, dynamics, etc. everyone easily agrees that better amps lead to optimized performance with TOTL headphones.. but with stax everyone wants to argue that there is no gap with budget amps vs. TOTL amps. And most times, they have not owned the them together over time.. which is a red flag. I do get the money aspect, but there are plenty of good amps between the $1.5-3k range. No one is saying you have to have a BHSE or T2. But to act like better amplification doesn't matter is just a bit crazy..


----------



## shabta

number1sixerfan said:


> Yes, if the SGL sounds 'much worse' than the Susvara (of which they share more similarities than otherwise), we certainly have different ears.  But I don't at all get what that has to do with anything about relative amp performance lol.
> 
> It doesn't matter if we're talking the SGL, the 007 or the 009, they are all clearly limited via side by side comparison on the SRM-1 MK2 imho. The thing that's so odd to me is that with planars, dynamics, etc. everyone easily agrees that better amps lead to optimized performance with TOTL headphones.. but with stax everyone wants to argue that there is no gap with budget amps vs. TOTL amps. And most times, they have not owned the them together over time.. which is a red flag. I do get the money aspect, but there are plenty of good amps between the $1.5-3k range. No one is saying you have to have a BHSE or T2. But to act like better amplification doesn't matter is just a bit crazy..


My point is we hear thing very differently. I never said there wasn't a difference between amps. I am someone who paid 4.5x what I paid for an SRM1 for a better amp. So I suppose I fall into a category that hears the difference between amps. I am just saying your point about the difference being huge is mostly based on what volume you listen at. At 80 - 85db or so, which is safe-ish for all day listening, the difference isn't very big at all. At the volume that most people who brag about carbon's (not all) listen at, the difference is much more noticeable especially in the low end, and of questionable safety.


----------



## eee1111

shabta said:


> I think we hear things very differently. I would never ever want to own a hifiman Shangri-la SR. I thought it sounded (on hifiman's set up) much worse than a Susvara with a as well as an Senn HE 1. Not even close. I listened to them all over 2 or three hours with my music in a very quiet amsterdam headphone store. Not saying with your ears you are wrong, just as usual YMMV.


come on


are you confusing SGL and SGL jr?


----------



## shabta

eee1111 said:


> come on
> 
> 
> are you confusing SGL and SGL jr?


Nope. I was shocked. The susvara was driven by a chord dave and a riviera amp. So maybe that's why. But it sounded closer to the HE1 than the SGL. Of course at that level you're spending more than 30k euros for the susvara set up. I wasn't the only one who came to that conclusion. Lot of us loonies in the world


----------



## number1sixerfan

shabta said:


> I am just saying your point about the difference being huge is mostly based on what volume you listen at. At 80 - 85db or so, which is safe-ish for all day listening, the difference isn't very big at all. At the volume that most people who brag about carbon's (not all) listen at, the difference is much more noticeable especially in the low end, and of questionable safety.



Totally fine, and we respectfully disagree and that's ok.  Despite the listening level, there is a very clear difference. I don't know how you can have them side by side and come to any other conclusion, ears aside. Whether it's worth it is a different thing entirely and that I get.


----------



## eee1111

shabta said:


> Nope. I was shocked. The susvara was driven by a chord dave and a riviera amp. So maybe that's why. But it sounded closer to the HE1 than the SGL. Of course at that level you're spending more than 30k euros for the susvara set up. I wasn't the only one who came to that conclusion. Lot of us loonies in the world


gotta be the setup


----------



## number1sixerfan

eee1111 said:


> gotta be the setup



If the SGL is ‘much worse’ than the Susvara to someone, something is undoubtedly wrong. And I think Hifiman would tell you just that if you reached out to them.. 

I can totally understand having different preferences though, especially when it comes to tonality—Susvara being a bit warmer. And the Susvara having slightly better bass. Outside of those two things, SGL is easily, technically better in every single aspect. But I do get someone preferring one over the other. 

But I’ve owned both for months, and saying the SGL is ‘much worse’ is just crazy lol


----------



## shabta

number1sixerfan said:


> If the SGL is ‘much worse’ than the Susvara to someone, something is undoubtedly wrong. And I think Hifiman would tell you just that if you reached out to them..
> 
> I can totally understand having different preferences though, especially when it comes to tonality—Susvara being a bit warmer. And the Susvara having slightly better bass. Outside of those two things, SGL is easily, technically better in every single aspect. But I do get someone preferring one over the other.
> 
> But I’ve owned both for months, and saying the SGL is ‘much worse’ is just crazy lol


It is a tonality thing, yes SGL is an ok headphone. But I could listen to the HE1 at the same time. And it wasn't even close. I asked the shop owner if anybody was picking the SGL over the HE1, he said "not yet". He said almost everyone had the same reaction as I did.  

SGL may be technically better than the Susvara, I really can't say. Because the tonality of the SGL was so wonky that I didn't care to try to figure it out. 

But we all have different ear topology, different musical tastes and different minds. I am very happy for you that you found a headphone that you love. Cool hobby, so many different choices.


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## shabta (Dec 25, 2021)

number1sixerfan said:


> Totally fine, and we respectfully disagree and that's ok.  Despite the listening level, there is a very clear difference. I don't know how you can have them side by side and come to any other conclusion, ears aside. Whether it's worth it is a different thing entirely and that I get.


I didn't say that there isn't a difference. I just said that at a normal healthy listening level the difference isn't as big a deal you you make it out to be. The difference is much more meaningful when you crank the volume to extremely loud levels.


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## shabta (Dec 25, 2021)

...


----------



## padam

shabta said:


> I didn't say that there isn't a difference. I just said that at a normal healthy listening level the difference isn't as big a deal you you make it out to be. The difference is much more meaningful when you crank the volume to extremely loud levels.


After recently testing out a KGSSHV extensively and comparing it against my Stax amps, I can't agree. For me, the difference seems to be there at any volume. In fact, I am more inclined to listen at a higher level on a weaker amp to compensate for the lack of body (I generally try to keep it around 80dB or less).

Imho it is more dependent on the recording itself, slower paced, relaxed music might not crave for power and there are other differences where a softer, more diffused presentation might even be preferable, the Stax amps have a somewhat different sound signature as well which may pair a bit better with a particular model.

My main recommendation is: if you have the budget for a higher-level amp for your Stax headphones and you want speed, dynamics, impact (irrespective of listening volume) you should definitely consider spending a fair bit on amplification (I'd say even for a cheaper model)


----------



## shabta

padam said:


> After recently testing out a KGSSHV extensively and comparing it against my Stax amps, I can't agree. For me, the difference seems to be there at any volume. In fact, I am more inclined to listen at a higher level on a weaker amp to compensate for the lack of body (I generally try to keep it around 80dB or less).
> 
> Imho it is more dependent on the recording itself, slower paced, relaxed music might not crave for power and there are other differences where a softer, more diffused presentation might even be preferable, the Stax amps have a somewhat different sound signature as well which may pair a bit better with a particular model.
> 
> My main recommendation is: if you have the budget for a higher-level amp for your Stax headphones and you want speed, dynamics, impact (irrespective of listening volume) you should definitely consider spending a fair bit on amplification (I'd say even for a cheaper model)


It's totally weird isn't it? While I love the Carbon, BHSE, SRX+, I really don't like the KGSSHV. I really wouldn't waste my time getting one for the 007, i'd rather get a t1 with a CCS mod. Or stay with a SRM1mk2. For me, in my system, with my crappy ears, the KGSSHV didn't really have the advantages of better bass and treble extension that those others amps have, at any volume level.


----------



## padam (Dec 25, 2021)

shabta said:


> It's totally weird isn't it? While I love the Carbon, BHSE, SRX+, I really don't like the KGSSHV. I really wouldn't waste my time getting one for the 007, i'd rather get a t1 with a CCS mod. Or stay with a SRM1mk2. For me, in my system, with my crappy ears, the KGSSHV didn't really have the advantages of better bass and treble extension that those others amps have, at any volume level.


I can only guesstimate that it was a different KGSSHV to the one I tested.
While I did hear a few disadvantages compared to Stax amps, the bass, treble and dynamics were a big improvement 
Before that I had assumed what some people wrote on forums: not worth it if you don't listen loud, etc. and these were just false assumptions.

I had also bought a KGSSHV many years before (2014) which was broken when it arrived, and even after the fix I don't recall that one sounding as impressive as this one, sold it very quickly.


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## orientexpedite (Dec 25, 2021)

The differences between the HE1 and SGL SR are apparent at all listening levels, in my experience.  One could prefer one or the other.  The HE1, which is a 120mm X 90mm printed ceramic stator vs the SR’s same-sized mesh stator, is more intimate and a little more restrained, which is primarily due to Sennheiser’s amplification and tube selection.

Comparing between the SRM-007tii, Megatron, and DIY T2 amps I own, all e stats sound more intimate and restrained with the smaller output tubes, and driven at lower voltages, such as in the SRM-007tii and HE1 amps.  Mids are excellent, while the FR extremes are more polite and rolled.  Better tubes certainly make a significant difference, such as the Great Britain Mazda Brimar 6CG7's sold by Upscale Audio a while back for the SRM-007tii.

The SRM-007tii amp is certainly a sleeper, a hidden gem, once some vintage tubes are installed and properly biased.  It's the Hifi equivalent of eating cardboard with milk for breakfast in place of cereal with the stock Electro-Harmonix tubes, however.  In most e stat tube circuits, the tubes do 90% of the heavy lifting, with the circuit and transformers determining the final character of the output.

The SR is leagues above the Susvara, HE1000 SE, V2, at all listening levels, at least on all the above amps, particularly in terms of transparency, soundstage, speed, and certainly with regard to accuracy/realism of timbre.

At high listening levels, any of them are equally deafening.

Disclaimer: I own the SR, but have not owned the HE1 due to the Sennheiser's amp limitations.  I’ve rolled the above headphones, as well as the SR-007 MK1, SR-009, SR-009S, HE-60, Jade II.


----------



## DenverW

shabta said:


> It's totally weird isn't it? While I love the Carbon, BHSE, SRX+, I really don't like the KGSSHV. I really wouldn't waste my time getting one for the 007, i'd rather get a t1 with a CCS mod. Or stay with a SRM1mk2. For me, in my system, with my crappy ears, the KGSSHV didn't really have the advantages of better bass and treble extension that those others amps have, at any volume level.


I was a bit different.  I found a significant difference between the base stax amps and the kgsshv, but a very minor difference between the kgsshv and the carbon.  I will say that the build quality of my kgsshv was probably higher than that of my carbon, which may have played a role.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

For me, only kgbh/kggg/carbon would work with sr-007, bass shelf and high spl. All other amps (I think, I've got them all) would distort.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Will L300 or L300 Limited improve the sound if I upgrade from SRM-252S to 717?


----------



## padam

Amp upgrades have been asked many times before. There will be people who say the 252S is fine, others like me will say amplification is a crucial element with any Stax headphone. You will get better soundstage, separation, dynamics and detail with any headphone. The scale of those improvements are down to personal preferences.


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> Will L300 or L300 Limited improve the sound if I upgrade from SRM-252S to 717?


252/253 is perfect for L300. 
I auditioned L300 with Blue Hawaii - didn't sound any better over my 253.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

In the end, you have to try it yourself. There are numerous people claiming all sort of things, and you'll never know what to believe. Doing volume matched AB comparisons was eye-opening for me.


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> 252/253 is perfect for L300.
> I auditioned L300 with Blue Hawaii - didn't sound any better over my 253.


I still prefer L300 with L700 pads over L300 Limited.


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> I still prefer L300 with L700 pads over L300 Limited.


So do I


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> So do I


What do you think about the bass on L300 vs L300 Limited? To my ears they are the same.


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> What do you think about the bass on L300 vs L300 Limited? To my ears they are the same.


L300LE bass is pretty much the same as L300 with L500 or L700 pads.
Still too plastic-y for me.


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> 252/253 is perfect for L300.
> I auditioned L300 with Blue Hawaii - didn't sound any better over my 253.


the problem with 253S is that it costs $500-600. At that price you can get bigger more power amp.
I know that you use tube pre-amp with your 253S. You need to try E180CC pinched waist Philips Heerlen tubes from the late 50's. They are like drugs to your ears.


----------



## BenF (Dec 28, 2021)

Menkau-ra said:


> the problem with 253S is that it costs $500-600. At that price you can get bigger more power amp.
> I know that you use tube pre-amp with your 253S. You need to try E180CC pinched waist Philips Heerlen tubes from the late 50's. They are like drugs to your ears.


I use the tube pre-amp for 009, not L300.
In my experience, it doesn't benefit from tubes.

The most important detail to get the best performance out L300, is to use a linear power supply for 252/253.
L300 doesn't need much power, but it's very transparent - so removing any amount of noise benefits SQ.


----------



## thale

for a 252s, iPower from ifi is a good alternative to a linear psu. it's extremely compact, dead silent and it's rated 1.8A for 12v.


----------



## Menkau-ra

thale said:


> for a 252s, iPower from ifi is a good alternative to a linear psu. it's extremely compact, dead silent and it's rated 1.8A for 12v.


does it come with the right plug and reverse polarity to fit 252S?


----------



## BenF (Dec 29, 2021)

thale said:


> for a 252s, iPower from ifi is a good alternative to a linear psu. it's extremely compact, dead silent and it's rated 1.8A for 12v.


iFi makes some ridiculous claims:





Is it really 20 times better than an "audiophile" LPS?
No chance in hell...

Pay attention to this little gem:




They exclude AC noise from their measurements!
They even say it openly that this device only filters RFI and EMI:




Don't waste your money.


----------



## Menkau-ra (Dec 29, 2021)

BenF said:


> Don't waste your money.


what would be the difference vs that power supply from Ali that you're using?


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> what would be the difference vs that power supply for Ali that you're using?


That's a proper LPS, filtering out AC noise.


----------



## thale

BenF said:


> That's a proper LPS, filtering out AC noise.


Switching psu for audio are not all bad. That was true maybe 20 years ago.
For instance my DAC is a Topping D10s directly powered from my laptop usb socket and it's perfectly fine. Check the review on ASR, the SNR is stellar and the usb power is absolutely not a problem.

However I'm tempted to TRY this linear psu from Ali, but at the end I don't think there will be a difference. It will just add weight and bulk to my setup.
Bigger is not necessary better. It's also true for Stax amps.


----------



## monsterxman

Curious... what is considered the best normal bias Stax headphone ever made?

My current amp is a 14 watt vintage Eico with mostly vintage Mullard tubes.  I also bought an overbuilt DIY energizer / transformer from an enthusiast years back that was optimized to be used with a low watt vintage tube amp like my Eico (he used a HH Scott 222)... it only takes low bias phones.

The setup has great synergy and is magical (to my ears) vs the stax amps (Srm-1 MK2, SRA-3S) I have owned... 

I currently have SR-404 Signatures, which work well.  Was thinking Stax Sigmas but would be curious to hear opinions on this...


----------



## bigjako (Dec 30, 2021)

I have 3 NB amps - the SRD-7, the Bottlehead Stat and the CCS-modded 006t.  My absolute favorite is the Stat with the Lambda NBs.  The SRD-7 is a close second, but it obviously depends on your speaker amp.  I have an Emotiva A-100, which is quite cheap, and it produces pretty awesome bass on the NBs, very tight but still present.

But yes, the Stat just seems to pair perfectly with (both) my Lambda NBs.  So sweet and liquid and smooth.  But still electrostatic through and through.


----------



## bearFNF

monsterxman said:


> Curious... what is considered the best normal bias Stax headphone ever made?
> 
> My current amp is a 14 watt vintage Eico with mostly vintage Mullard tubes.  I also bought an overbuilt DIY energizer / transformer from an enthusiast years back that was optimized to be used with a low watt vintage tube amp like my Eico (he used a HH Scott 222)... it only takes low bias phones.
> 
> ...


I second the Lambda NB, Have had mine since the 80s and will never let them go. I use them on my BHSE (had Justin put in a normal bias socket just for them).


----------



## tjlindle

Of the NB Stax I've tried, the Lambda NB probably is the "best" one but I ended up being very partial to the SR-X Mk3 and I still have an SRM-1/Mk2 on hand basically just to run the Mk3 if I'm ever so inclined.

I also love the way the Mk3 looks but that has nothing to do with the sound lol.

I think the next step for my setup might be the energizer route with an iFi iESL, largely because I still want the normal bias compatibility.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Can AHB2 + SRD7 drive 007 and 009 properly? I was thinking about AHB2 for Susvara and was wondering if SRD7 (or similar) would be a good combo? Or I still need KGSS?


----------



## Firschi

BenF said:


> That's a proper LPS, filtering out AC noise.


Could you please share the link?


----------



## bearFNF

Menkau-ra said:


> Can AHB2 + SRD7 drive 007 and 009 properly? I was thinking about AHB2 for Susvara and was wondering if SRD7 (or similar) would be a good combo? Or I still need KGSS?


It certainly has the power to do it, it all comes down to how it sounds to you.
Would be worth at try if all you need to buy is the SRD7.


----------



## Menkau-ra

bearFNF said:


> It certainly has the power to do it, it all comes down to how it sounds to you.
> Would be worth at try if all you need to buy is the SRD7.


I just want to buy one universal amp, and AHB2 has power for Susvara. I don't want to spend another $3k for a Stax amp.


----------



## bigjako (Dec 31, 2021)

You can get an SRD7 for $250, or maybe a little more if you’re looking for one that also works with Pro bias.   My normal bias SRD7SB is in the classifieds and I use another with both Pro and Normal outputs - one of those might be for sale too. If you have a serviceable speaker amp, I think an SRD7 is a perfect little add on.

Edit: the seller I bought mine from has one going for $180 right now, pro and normal.


----------



## BenF

Firschi said:


> Could you please share the link?


I am using this LPS with upgraded Talema transformer: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC5...-noise-DC-linear-regulated/1000004386010.html
Asked the seller to reverse polarity and add a second cable.
Can't say I hear any changes in SQ using 253S, but it just feels right to use LPS.


----------



## Firschi

Thank you.


----------



## monsterxman

tjlindle said:


> Of the NB Stax I've tried, the Lambda NB probably is the "best" one but I ended up being very partial to the SR-X Mk3 and I still have an SRM-1/Mk2 on hand basically just to run the Mk3 if I'm ever so inclined.
> 
> I also love the way the Mk3 looks but that has nothing to do with the sound lol.
> 
> I think the next step for my setup might be the energizer route with an iFi iESL, largely because I still want the normal bias compatibility.



Thanks, just ordered a pair of NB’s...

Have owned pro’s in the past that I thought were very good.

Will advise when received and how they compare to my 404 I have on hand.


----------



## Sajid Amit

My review of the 007 MK1. Hope it helps? 🙂


----------



## Sandro Sena (Jan 4, 2022)

Sajid Amit said:


> My review of the 007 MK1. Hope it helps? 🙂



great review, thank you.

SR-007 MKI is my favorite electrostatic headphone (and despite some similarities, I find it hard to believe that the MKII is only a revision). Unlike the SR-009, the SR-007 MKI can sing, it is a headphone, so to speak, that has a great musical talent, i.e. it is a great interpreter, a hermeneutical talent that its younger and technically superior brother does not possess.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Sajid Amit said:


> My review of the 007 MK1. Hope it helps? 🙂




Good review. Definitely agree on the impressions. Also I was really taken back by just how authoritative the bass is recently. Overall, just a really phone pair of headphones.


----------



## Axel

Sajid Amit said:


> My review of the 007 MK1. Hope it helps? 🙂



Hi @Sajid Amit ,

Great review!
I was wondering if you found the SR-007 bass better than the Susvaras?
Overall, how does the SR-007 compare to the SR-009s you've recently reviewed?


----------



## Menkau-ra

Have anybody tried new electrostatic energizer from Bottlehead?


----------



## Sajid Amit (Jan 4, 2022)

Axel said:


> Hi @Sajid Amit ,
> 
> Great review!
> I was wondering if you found the SR-007 bass better than the Susvaras?
> Overall, how does the SR-007 compare to the SR-009s you've recently reviewed?


Hey Axel, off the Carbon, the bass is definitely stronger than the Susvara’s, although the Susvara bass is absolutely fine with a copper cable off my Hegel H95.
The SR007 MK1 is more musical than the 009S; more meat on the bones; richer tone; warmer/darker; etc.
I personally prefer the MK1 to the 009S, although the 009S is more technically proficient.
To me, the 007 does just fine as per technical parameters and the best part is, it works across all genres and tracks.
The bass actually thumps with the right chain behind it.
All Stax hps are source picky.
Funny thing: the 007 sounds better to my ears off an Aries II DAC than the Holo May, the amplifier being the same, i.e., the KGSSHV Carbon.


----------



## bigjako

Menkau-ra said:


> Have anybody tried new electrostatic energizer from Bottlehead?


Yes, I have the blue one in that link. I like it a lot, it pairs well with my NBs.  It’s powerful enough for all my Lambdas but the es1a come across a little rolled off - still very musical and detailed but not as sparkly as my CCS 006t.  I would guess it’s not great for the 007.  

I have a Bottlehead Crack too, and it brings some of that flavor to estats. It has a CCS, so it’s like a Speedballed Crack.


----------



## Axel

Sajid Amit said:


> Hey Axel, off the Carbon, the bass is definitely stronger than the Susvara’s, although the Susvara bass is absolutely fine with a copper cable off my Hegel H95.
> The SR007 MK1 is more musical than the 009S; more meat on the bones; richer tone; warmer/darker; etc.
> I personally prefer the MK1 to the 009S, although the 009S is more technically proficient.
> To me, the 007 does just fine as per technical parameters and the best part is, it works across all genres and tracks.
> ...


Thank you Sajid!

It’s actually interesting to know how much does the SR-007mk2 differ from the mk1.

I have the mk2 and I found your review pretty much similar to what I’m experiencing.
Except now that I have the LCD-4z driven by the Viva Egoista 845, the bass is a class or two above that of the SR-007mk2.
Although the SR-007mk2 mids are truly amazing.
Other aspects, like sounstage depth are also surpassed by the LCD-4z.
In general the SR-007mk2 have a very big sound but rather flat in depth. The highs are very easy on the ear.


----------



## Tugbars

I'm only referring to 007mkII mk2.9 here.(has different response than mk 2.5)

MKII's are slightly more detailed than MKI but also darker. 
MKII's are a bit more airy.
MKII's are shouty in 1000-1300hz range, mids are colored compared to MKI.(spring mod solves this problem a bit)

MKII needs blu tac mod to have tight, deep sub bass extension.


----------



## KDS315

I use the ORATORY1990 settings (ROON Convolver) with my SR-007 Mk2 and am quite happy with it; without that it is way too dark sounding for me, with missing mids.


----------



## Axel

Tugbars said:


> I'm only referring to 007mkII mk2.9 here.(has different response than mk 2.5)


How do I know if I have the mk2.9 or mk2.5 (I just recently bought mine).


Tugbars said:


> MKII's are slightly more detailed than MKI but also darker.
> MKII's are a bit more airy.
> MKII's are shouty in 1000-1300hz range, mids are colored compared to MKI.(spring mod solves this problem a bit)


Couldn't hear any "shouty" mids.


Tugbars said:


> MKII needs blu tac mod to have tight, deep sub bass extension.


Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not going to stick blu-tac on $2000 headphones.


----------



## KDS315 (Jan 5, 2022)

Serial number: SR-007A/SR-007Mk2 - S/N SZ3-xxxx, often called Mk2.5 (supposedly the worst sounding ...)
according to: https://www.stereophile.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-stax-sr-007


----------



## Tugbars (Jan 5, 2022)

Axel said:


> How do I know if I have the mk2.9 or mk2.5 (I just recently bought mine).
> 
> Couldn't hear any "shouty" mids.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not going to stick blu-tac on $2000 headphones.


SR007mkII's bass port is not sealed in stock form. MKII's bass rolls off below a point quickly.

If you can't hear *shouty* mids, it's not your fault, that basically means your reference system is not neutral.


----------



## Axel

KDS315 said:


> Serial number: SR-007A/SR-007Mk2 - S/N SZ3-xxxx, often called Mk2.5 (supposedly the worst sounding ...)
> according to: https://www.stereophile.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-stax-sr-007


I have a SZ3-xxxx serial number, but isn't the Mk2.9 supposed to be a later version? (2.9 > 2.5 as far as my math knowledge recalls)


----------



## Axel

Tugbars said:


> SR007mkII's bass port is not sealed in stock form. MKII's bass rolls off below a point quickly.
> 
> If you can't hear *shouty* mids, it's not your fault, that basically means your reference system is not neutral.


I like your conclusion.
Could be so much more parameters that cause me not to think the mids are shouty.
What is a neutral system? I'm not sure anyone can define it here (and no, measurements cannot tell you what is neutral and what is not).


----------



## hewlett168

Axel said:


> How do I know if I have the mk2.9 or mk2.5 (I just recently bought mine).
> 
> Couldn't hear any "shouty" mids.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not going to stick blu-tac on $2000 headphones.


It may seem stupid in a way to have to apply blu-tack on such an expensive headphone. If you were to explain it to someone outside of this hobby, they would think you are mad (and rightfully so). But the difference is undeniable: compare the following two pictures. Without Blu-tack, the bass rolls off after 50-60 hz. With blu-tack, it is relatively lineair down to 20hz.


----------



## Tugbars (Jan 5, 2022)

Axel said:


> I like your conclusion.
> Could be so much more parameters that cause me not to think the mids are shouty.
> What is a neutral system? I'm not sure anyone can define it here (and no, measurements cannot tell you what is neutral and what is not).


Yes I don't/can't know the in room response of the speakers in the studio where the music I listen was produced. Hence I can never know how the music I listen really should sound like.

However, neutrality is a concept. It's an abstraction based on few assumptions: We know how well designed flat speakers sound like in a typical reflective room(It is well researched & well defined), that is taken as reference point while producing music. Flat is neutral? No.  This is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that, during music production, audio engineers need a tool to hear the balance between bass, mids and treble. They choose flat speakers for this task. Honestly, speakers don't have to be even flat. The reference point for mastering recordings can be anything but audio engineers use flat speakers because it's preferable when the mastered music sound similar on different playback devices. I am not talking about the music reproduction / playback yet. 

Let's assume, Bach's BWV 578(performed by person X) has been mastered & mixed by audio engineers with JBL M2's.(25k$ speakers). If my headphones have the same response as JBL M2's in that mastering room, that BWV 578 recording will sound *neutral* to me. I'm not saying better, It will sound *neutral* to me. Something is neutral when it matches with the response of speakers inside the mastering engineers room. It's not better or worse.  It is what it is.

So neutrality is a concept based on how state-of-art speakers sound in a typical room.(I don't know want to go in details about these speakers unless asked)  Simply because audio engineers use such systems. (hopefully). This is what *neutrality target* is based on.

Compared to that neutrality target, SR007MKII's are louder between 1000 and 1300hz by 5db. 5db equals to 45% loudness. There are thousands of different studio speakers, placed in thousands of different mastering rooms and they will sound different than each other. But they won't sound 45% different from each other in most cases(There is a research about this too, Yes, some mastering studios are extremely bad but the average of 1000 mastering studios is actually somewhat close to this *neutrality target* ). So for majority of recordings/music SR007MKII will sound honky/shouty. There will be always some recordings that sound *neutral* with 007's too. This simply depends on the response of the speakers inside the mastering room.

I didn't mention the second assumption in the concept of neutrality. Mastering engineer has to have a good taste in music & have good ears. If this condition is not met, everything will sound wonky & bad... whatever speakers & headphones we use. There is nothing we can do about it.


----------



## Axel

I'm not going to further dwell into your definition. All I can say is that if a measurements graph shows something, it doesn't mean each and every one of us hear it the same, and that our brain translates similarly.

Anyway, overall, I'm pretty sure my equipment is mostly colorless (an audiophile term), to me it sounds very neutral and natural.
To each his own.


----------



## tjlindle

Do you all know any good resource for how to re-cap an SRM-1/MkII?

I think I'm about on the cusp of retiring it for an iESL, so I think now is a good time to finally give a re-cap a shot since (a) if I somehow bork it, I won't be out of a normal bias socket for long, and (b) if I re-cap it successfully, I'll be able to sell it as such.

It still operates well, but to my knowledge it hasn't been re-capped during its lifespan, so I think it's overdue for one.


----------



## tumpux

If you’re planning to sell it, let’s the next guy do the recap job. 
Personally I prefer to get something in original condition than getting something that have been monkeyed around. Especially by an amateur primate.


----------



## tjlindle

tumpux said:


> If you’re planning to sell it, let’s the next guy do the recap job.
> Personally I prefer to get something in original condition than getting something that have been monkeyed around. Especially by an amateur primate.


 

That is a good point though considering most anyone interested in these sort of products tend to overlap with the DIY crowd.

I've re-capped retro game consoles and related paraphernalia but never any audio equipment. Biggest stumbling block for something like the SRM-1 is I don't know if I need specific vintage caps or where to even source them.

Mostly I'm just curious how the sound would change with a re-cap. This SRM-1 sounds great but has always run a bit "soft" to my ears compared to my other 'stat amps, I'm curious if that's due to cap degradation over the years.

It makes it a great pairing for NB Staxen though since they tend to run softer and sweeter anyway, at least the ones I've tried and liked.


----------



## pspentax

Some testings.
353X vs 727II    L300 vs L700mkII


----------



## tycinis

Sajid Amit said:


> Hey Axel, off the Carbon, the bass is definitely stronger than the Susvara’s, although the Susvara bass is absolutely fine with a copper cable off my Hegel H95.
> The SR007 MK1 is more musical than the 009S; more meat on the bones; richer tone; warmer/darker; etc.
> I personally prefer the MK1 to the 009S, although the 009S is more technically proficient.
> To me, the 007 does just fine as per technical parameters and the best part is, it works across all genres and tracks.
> ...



I have a 007 mk1 with a SRM-1-MK2 backup with a questyle CM400i.

What do you recommend to upgrade my amps ?


----------



## tjlindle

I'm looking for a NB Lambda so if any of you all have one on hand you'd like to offload, let me know! From the discussion above re: NB Staxen, I wanted to pick up the OG Lambda again to compare it directly to the SR-X Mk3 since I had sold the Lambda before I picked up the Mk3.


pspentax said:


> Some testings.
> 353X vs 727II    L300 vs L700mkII


How is the 727II compared to the 353X for the L700mkII?


----------



## HeadphoneNewbiee

Good weekend everyone. I am possibly going to buy a pair of stax lambda pro (1982 version). I am going to see and hear them in person but Im not sure how to know if they are in good condition so what should I be looking for?


----------



## Vanheim

So I have the stax srm-727a driving my 009S for now. I use the topping a90 as a preamp and bypass the volume pot on the stax amp completely, sounds much better to me that way. My question is, would upgrading from this to a srd-7 or woo wee with a good speaker amp like the Hegel-h95 be a good idea instead of going down the path of electrostatic speaker amps which often seems to get crazy expensive?


----------



## tjlindle

I've been doing a bit of research and I still can't figure out what in the world the center pin does on the NB 6-pin layout. Bias is on the same pin as the 5-pin (which makes sense otherwise 5-pins wouldn't work in a NB socket) so...??? Does that mean if I had a 6-pin extension cable, I could just remove the center pin on the amp side and essentially turn it into a 5-pin Pro Bias extension cable?


HeadphoneNewbiee said:


> Good weekend everyone. I am possibly going to buy a pair of stax lambda pro (1982 version). I am going to see and hear them in person but Im not sure how to know if they are in good condition so what should I be looking for?


Definitely listen to them closely for either a channel imbalance between the two drivers, or any faint squealing noises.

The pads themselves you'll want to check too, make sure they're in good condition because that will also directly affect the sound.

Everything else is mostly just cosmetic and doesn't really matter unless they're having major problems, like the headband being ripped up or loose.

For something this old, if it sits properly on your head and sounds good, it is in good condition lol.


----------



## pspentax

tjlindle said:


> I've been doing a bit of research and I still can't figure out what in the world the center pin does on the NB 6-pin layout. Bias is on the same pin as the 5-pin (which makes sense otherwise 5-pins wouldn't work in a NB socket) so...??? Does that mean if I had a 6-pin extension cable, I could just remove the center pin on the amp side and essentially turn it into a 5-pin Pro Bias extension cable?


Just for protection of the headphone.
You can connect a Pro bias headphone in a normal bias output ... but you can’t  connect a normal bias headphone to the Pro bias output.


----------



## bearFNF

pspentax said:


> Just for protection of the headphone.
> You can connect a Pro bias headphone in a normal bias output ... but you can’t  connect a normal bias headphone to the Pro bias output.


This is true for just the headphone cables, but if you use an extension cable, then all bets are off.
I have (theoretically) OE Stax extension cables from the 80s that have six pin female connectors on the earspeaker end and five pin male connectors on the amp end.
So be cautious and ALWAYS check to make sure you are plugging into the correct socket.


----------



## poemadevil

I bought a MC34-B pushpull tube amp some time ago and had it connected with the speaker terminals to a step up transformer. This morning I decided to connect the headphone directly to the power tubes (6L6GC, made in china) and use an Aliexpress step up booster for the bias. And...it just works. I have no real experience in electronics or so. Neither did I drill holes in the tube amp, just soldered 4 wires to go out of the amp into an enclosure with the dc booster and the headphone connector. Using a 207 headphone. I find the sound the best I've heard so far. I'am I just lucky or is it really just so simple ?


----------



## HeadphoneNewbiee

tjlindle said:


> The pads themselves you'll want to check too, make sure they're in good condition because that will also directly affect the sound.


Thanks I will definetely lookout for the pads as they do look a little thin on the photos I have been given compared to other lambda pros.


----------



## Vanheim

I wanted to sell these and get the Susvara, but as spectacular as they are themselves, I think I’m a stax mafiaso at heart. Happy listening folks!


----------



## KDS315 (Jan 9, 2022)

poemadevil said:


> I bought a MC34-B pushpull tube amp some time ago and had it connected with the speaker terminals to a step up transformer. This morning I decided to connect the headphone directly to the power tubes (6L6GC, made in china) and use an Aliexpress step up booster for the bias. And...it just works. I have no real experience in electronics or so. Neither did I drill holes in the tube amp, just soldered 4 wires to go out of the amp into an enclosure with the dc booster and the headphone connector. Using a 207 headphone. I find the sound the best I've heard so far. I'am I just lucky or is it really just so simple ?


Of course that'll work if the anode voltage is high enough. You'd better add some safety resistors between the anode connection and the outputs. What's that "Alienexpress step up booster"? You need to provide a 580Volts DC voltage for the bias for STAX PRO headphones.

Most tube / hybrid STAX amps use that...this should be the schematics of yours...





and this of a known Amp for Stax:


----------



## kevin gilmore

hooking directly to the plates without safety resistors (5.1k or so) and 1uf series caps is a very unsafe idea. 
also messes with the bias voltage.


----------



## poemadevil

Sorry regarding the dc booster, it wasn't AliExpress but Ebay: this one.

Schematic of my amp:






And it looks like this:





External case is just an (now) empty Micro Seiki with the dc booster placed, connected to a 5v power adapter and the original headphone plug replaced with a 5 pin Stax. I admit, not the best looking setup but as I said: it works. I don't have the knowledge to get the 580V diaphragm bias from the internals of the amp. I wish I had. Furthermore I agree that this is not a very safe way to go and would not recommend doing this. Just illustrating that a "cheap" Stax tube amplifier sound is possible. Would be a nice service if one could send in his own tube amp to have it rebuild adding a Stax output. I don't think such a service exists, not in The Netherlands anyway.


----------



## pspentax

Let’s go... one more try...


----------



## ufospls2

Oh well, I figured if I'm going to do the electrostatic thing for a while I may as well go full potato. 

Kerry DIY T2 on order. And thus, the wait begins    : )


----------



## buzzlulu

ufospls2 said:


> Oh well, I figured if I'm going to do the electrostatic thing for a while I may as well go full potato.
> 
> Kerry DIY T2 on order. And thus, the wait begins    : )


 
Come on in the water is fine.
Hey @Kerry  - hurry up with mine

Best
Gregg


----------



## Chefguru

Does anyone have any tricks on storing their 009/srx9k/omega to avoid stretching the headband? 
The 009 fits best on the smallest setting - but now, after owning them for a year - I've found the headband has lost some of its tightness due to the Stax headstand putting pressure on the leather. I'm hesitant about using the plastic piece of the headband since the wiring into the cup then has to bend to avoid pressure from the table


----------



## bearFNF (Jan 10, 2022)

Chefguru said:


> Does anyone have any tricks on storing their 009/srx9k/omega to avoid stretching the headband?
> The 009 fits best on the smallest setting - but now, after owning them for a year - I've found the headband has lost some of its tightness due to the Stax headstand putting pressure on the leather. I'm hesitant about using the plastic piece of the headband since the wiring into the cup then has to bend to avoid pressure from the table


I usually just put them in their box when not using them. Keeps the dust off/out of them that way, too.

If you don't want to do that, then get a stand that is tall enough you can hang them from the head frame instead of the soft head band.


----------



## padam

Chefguru said:


> Does anyone have any tricks on storing their 009/srx9k/omega to avoid stretching the headband?
> The 009 fits best on the smallest setting - but now, after owning them for a year - I've found the headband has lost some of its tightness due to the Stax headstand putting pressure on the leather. I'm hesitant about using the plastic piece of the headband since the wiring into the cup then has to bend to avoid pressure from the table







Not a long-term solution, I will find something that clamps to the assembly better 
I have just replaced the stretched headpad on the Omega, highly recommended, not only it cured the looseness, but the sound has also improved a bit.
If I could compress the arc assembly a bit as well, it would probably fit me even better, I am sure it would crack right away. Looks like the X9000 can be bent like the 007.

Anyone knows if it is difficult to replace the headpad on a Gamma Pro? Looks like the holders are glued together. Made of some crappy material over the fabric that flakes over time, I brushed it all off.


----------



## Chefguru

padam said:


> Not a long-term solution, I will find something that clamps to the assembly better
> I have just replaced the stretched headpad on the Omega, highly recommended, not only it cured the looseness, but the sound has also improved a bit.
> If I could compress the arc assembly a bit as well, it would probably fit me even better, I am sure it would crack right away. Looks like the X9000 can be bent like the 007.
> 
> Anyone knows if it is difficult to replace the headpad on a Gamma Pro? Looks like the holders are glued together. Made of some crappy material over the fabric that flakes over time, I brushed it all off.


Good idea.

This  Room Stand Here seems to fit the criteria for adjusting the height, but the issue now is the stax raincoat won't fit...


----------



## Eich1eeF

Chefguru said:


> This  Room Stand Here seems to fit the criteria for adjusting the height, but the issue now is the stax raincoat won't fit...


The Room Pro works for me. At its highest position, the Stax raincoat just bulges out about 5cm at the back without a headphone on the stand, with the bottom about 2cm above the "ground". I do however store my headphones in their cases when they are not in use for any prolonged period.


----------



## Chefguru

Eich1eeF said:


> The Room Pro works for me. At its highest position, the Stax raincoat just bulges out about 5cm at the back without a headphone on the stand, with the bottom about 2cm above the "ground". I do however store my headphones in their cases when they are not in use for any prolonged period.


Can you post a photo of the headphones on the stand ?


----------



## musicman59

The Woo Audio stand extended not even to the max works fine using the plastic arch.







Doing this exorcise made me realized my leather headband inner piece is coming off just above the attachment points.

Does anybody know where to order a replacement and have experience replacing it to provide me some directions?


----------



## padam

https://staxaudio.com/headpad/stax-sr-009-headpad


----------



## musicman59

padam said:


> https://staxaudio.com/headpad/stax-sr-009-headpad



Thanks!


----------



## Sajid Amit (Jan 12, 2022)

Hello, good people.
So I have been geeking out on DACs of late, as I realized that my Stax headohones sound much better of Denafrips DACs than my Holo May.
I am also tempted to try chip-based DACS, the better implemented ones.
Open-ended question.
Other than the DC4-ed mDave, *what other DACs have you tried that you like with the Stax SR009/009S*? The 007's are relatively more forgiving, hence, particularly curious about successful DAC pairings with the 009/009S (other than the Dave). I love the Dave, but want to widen my search at this point. My amp is the KGSSHV Carbon.
Thanks in advance for all your input.


----------



## Tugbars

Sajid Amit said:


> Hello, good people.
> So I have been geeking out on DACs of late, as I realized that my Stax headohones sound much better of Denafrips DACs than my Holo May.
> I am also tempted to try chip-based DACS, the better implemented ones.
> Open-ended question.
> ...


Bricasti M1 and Dangerous Convert 2


----------



## nepherte

Sajid Amit said:


> Other than the DC4-ed mDave, *what other DACs have you tried that you like with the Stax SR009/009S*? The 007's are relatively more forgiving, hence, particularly curious about successful DAC pairings with the 009/009S (other than the Dave)


I’m quite pleased with my Mola Mola Tambaqui, although I had to EQ it for the 009 to sound good (oratory). Nothing imo beats the 007 pairing though.


----------



## KDS315 (Jan 12, 2022)

Although? Having to use Oratory's EQ for a STAX headphone has NOTHING to do with the DAC used IMHO.


----------



## dkdali

Sajid Amit said:


> Hello, good people.
> So I have been geeking out on DACs of late, as I realized that my Stax headohones sound much better of Denafrips DACs than my Holo May.
> I am also tempted to try chip-based DACS, the better implemented ones.
> Open-ended question.
> ...


Big fan of the Holo Audio May dac. I eq my 009 in Roon and upsample in HQP on a Innuos Zenith to 1.5MHz - absolutely fantastic result!


----------



## eee1111

Sajid Amit said:


> Hello, good people.
> So I have been geeking out on DACs of late, as I realized that my Stax headohones sound much better of Denafrips DACs than my Holo May.
> I am also tempted to try chip-based DACS, the better implemented ones.
> Open-ended question.
> ...


Have you gotten the May running 1.5mhz yet? If not you should try it out.


----------



## musicman59

Tugbars said:


> Bricasti M1 and Dangerous Convert 2


+1 on the Bricasti M1SE or even better the Bricasti M21.
I own both. The M1SE is in my headphones system and the M21 in my 2 channel system.

Both have the Bricasti house sound but they are a slight difference with the M1SE being a little warmer in sound while the M21 is the ultimate in transparency so it depends what you are looking for.


----------



## bearFNF

Sajid Amit said:


> Hello, good people.
> So I have been geeking out on DACs of late, as I realized that my Stax headohones sound much better of Denafrips DACs than my Holo May.
> I am also tempted to try chip-based DACS, the better implemented ones.
> Open-ended question.
> ...


I have liked the Yggdrasil A2 (and the A1 before I updated). Does a very good job of feeding the BHSE (009/Voce/Lambda NB) and LL2SS (007MKII).


----------



## makan

bearFNF said:


> I have liked the Yggdrasil A2 (and the A1 before I updated). Does a very good job of feeding the BHSE (009/Voce/Lambda NB) and LL2SS (007MKII).


I too am using the Yggy A2 feeding the mjolnir megatron (009S/Shangri-la Jr) and carbon CC (007mk1) and it seems to be working well.  My only other comparisons are to the ADI-2 DAC and PS Audio directstream.


----------



## nepherte

KDS315 said:


> Although? Having to use Oratory's EQ for a STAX headphone has NOTHING to do with the DAC used IMHO.


Prior to the Mola I used another dac, which sounded more warm to my ears and made the SR009 bearable without EQ. So yes, how it sounds definitely has something to do with the DAC (among other things)


----------



## Sajid Amit (Jan 12, 2022)

nepherte said:


> Prior to the Mola I used another dac, which sounded more warm to my ears and made the SR009 bearable without EQ. So yes, how it sounds definitely has something to do with the DAC (among other things)


Yes, of course. In my experience, the 009/009S is more DAC sensitive than my Susvara or TC. The differences in sonic signature between the Holo May and my Aries II are magnified using the 009S. And my listening pleasure varies greatly depending on what chain I have, DAC included. Like I said, in my experience, given my preferences, I prefer the lower priced Aries II than the May with the 009S. Hence, the renewed interest in DACs. 

But yes, I ought to try HQ Player. 

Are there instructions anywhere on how to integrate HQ Player with May and Roon: A quick read hopefully? Lol.


----------



## eee1111 (Jan 12, 2022)

Sajid Amit said:


> Yes, of course. In my experience, the 009/009S is more DAC sensitive than my Susvara or TC. The differences in sonic signature between the Holo May and my Aries II are magnified using the 009S. And my listening pleasure varies greatly depending on what chain I have, DAC included. Like I said, in my experience, given my preferences, I prefer the lower priced Aries II than the May with the 009S. Hence, the renewed interest in DACs.
> 
> But yes, I ought to try HQ Player.
> 
> Are there instructions anywhere on how to integrate HQ Player with May and Roon: A quick read hopefully? Lol.


I barely remember doing it. You need to buy a license from their site signalyst and download it to your server or PC. I think you can get a lifetime license.

Anyway once you have it downloaded you go into roon and there is a setting on there to incorporate HQP into roon.

I had the option on my server to put the license in and then go on roon and enable it. So the PC route I am not familiar with. Someone here can get you going in the right direction 

It can get confusing…..but to my ears it has been a great combo with the May.


----------



## lsantista (Jan 13, 2022)

Chefguru said:


> Does anyone have any tricks on storing their 009/srx9k/omega to avoid stretching the headband?
> The 009 fits best on the smallest setting - but now, after owning them for a year - I've found the headband has lost some of its tightness due to the Stax headstand putting pressure on the leather. I'm hesitant about using the plastic piece of the headband since the wiring into the cup then has to bend to avoid pressure from the table


Not a beautiful solution, but Ive been using toilet paper rolls to damp the stretch on my lambdas and 007a for 5 months and it has worked fine. I believe its shape fits well to avoid marking the headbands and I like how it keeps excess hair oils from penetrating the headband, at least where it rests in the paper. Hopefully it is a good long term solution. It's also so cheap..


----------



## Ojisan

lsantista said:


> Not a beautiful solution, but Ive been using toilet paper rolls to damp the stretch on my lambdas and 007a for 5 months and it has worked fine. I believe its shape fits well to avoid marking the headbands and I like how it keeps excess hair oils from penetrating the headband, at least where it rests in the paper. Hopefully it is a good long term solution. It's also so cheap..


Hopefully, you are using the lint-free type TP! I keep my Stax away from dust sources...


----------



## lsantista

good point. I did inspect the rolls at first use (I mean, any plastic bottle of similar size would do) and every week or so I also inspect the Staxes and have note no dust builtup. My hair is on the oily side and so I also inspect the headband/earpads for oil from time to time..  though admitedly 5 months is far from long term testing, so far so good.


----------



## Tugbars

nepherte said:


> Prior to the Mola I used another dac, which sounded more warm to my ears and made the SR009 bearable without EQ. So yes, how it sounds definitely has something to do with the DAC (among other things)


It is probably because Mola Mola Tambaqui dac has no noise floor modulation that can introduce harshness to treble & mids. (same goes for well designed R-2R dacs).


----------



## Eich1eeF

Chefguru said:


> Can you post a photo of the headphones on the stand ?


----------



## pspentax

Testing day for the 007tII


----------



## urs

*Question to STAX Extension Cords *
I need your help…
I have two extension cords from STAX. 
One is marked with a _yellow-gold_ color or coding on the outside, the other _white - silver._

There are apparently the types SRE-750H and SRE-950S.
Which would be what ??

Thanks for your hints !
Regards
Urs


----------



## padam (Jan 15, 2022)

SRE-750H = white, SRE-950S = yellow


----------



## pspentax (Jan 15, 2022)

urs said:


> *Question to STAX Extension Cords *
> I need your help…
> I have two extension cords from STAX.
> One is marked with a _yellow-gold_ color or coding on the outside, the other _white - silver._
> ...


As the @padam say.
The 750 silver/white is only cooper the 950 gold/yellow is silvered cooper.
A strange choice of color schemes for me it will be the other way 🤷‍♂️🤣

PS- gold/yellow scheme is more luxurious 🤣


----------



## urs

* padam & pspentax*​*Thank you !*
This fits also with the cables on the STAX (X-) and 009(S) series phones
My 007 has "only" the  -older ? - white-silver cable 

Regards
Urs


----------



## pspentax

urs said:


> * padam & pspentax*​*Thank you !*
> This fits also with the cables on the STAX (X-) and 009(S) series phones
> My 007 has "only" the  -older ? - white-silver cable
> 
> ...


Yes, it’s a sound signature choice for each Stax series.
The L500/007 uses the cooper cable and the L700/009 use the cooper silver plated.
You can mix the extension cord between them and change a little the sound signature.


----------



## goldwerger

Sajid Amit said:


> Hello, good people.
> So I have been geeking out on DACs of late, as I realized that my Stax headohones sound much better of Denafrips DACs than my Holo May.
> I am also tempted to try chip-based DACS, the better implemented ones.
> Open-ended question.
> ...


Sajid,
Try the Bricasti M3, which is a beautifully sounding DAC (and as amp in the M3h version). I’m plugging it these days to my Mjolnir Carbon and 007mk1. It may be a perfect fit…


----------



## goldwerger

I’m throwing this out there… so…

Which Stax does the Audeze CRBN compete with? and how to they compare?


----------



## Chefguru

goldwerger said:


> I’m throwing this out there… so…
> 
> Which Stax does the Audeze CRBN compete with? and how to they compare?



It sounds more 007 than 009, but has a presentation similar to the He90 family.
It's hard to rank things because the tonal balance is so different.

Tier 1) Sr-omega / He-90/ He-1 / SGL Sr / possibly SRX9k
Tier 2) Sr009S / CRBN / Sr007 mk1
Tier 2.5) Sr009 / Sr007 Mk2 / SGL Jr
Tier 3) He60 / Lambda models


----------



## goldwerger

Chefguru said:


> It sounds more 007 than 009, but has a presentation similar to the He90 family.
> It's hard to rank things because the tonal balance is so different.
> 
> Tier 1) Sr-omega / He-90/ He-1 / SGL Sr / possibly SRX9k
> ...


Thanks!


----------



## BTD1

I am hoping that the wise folks reading this thread can help me come to an understanding of estat energizers driven by speaker amps vs estat amplifiers. I ask because I am looking at buying an sr x-9000 when available.  I currently have the Audeze CRBN through an iFi iESL energizer.  I can use a few different amps for power.  To my ears it sounds good. If more power is needed, say for a Stax srx 9000, a more powerful power amp is much cheaper than the dedicated estat amplifiers from Stax and other companies.  So, I just want to understand why, energizers such as the iFi IESL aren't talked about on the same level as Blue Hawaii, or the Stax T8000? Wasn't the Stax system originally conceived using an energizer powered by an amp?


----------



## number1sixerfan

goldwerger said:


> I’m throwing this out there… so…
> 
> Which Stax does the Audeze CRBN compete with? and how to they compare?



It would be the 007. They are the most similar. After that, everything else is quite different from it. CRBN has great tonality and is solid in all technical categories, but the 009 in comparison just does a few things quite better technically, similarly to it vs. the 007 (soundstage, imaging, detail.. mainly just sense of separation, openness and refinement overall). But if you want a stat that's much smoother/warmer, the CRBN is the way to go while still getting really good technical performance.


----------



## goldwerger

number1sixerfan said:


> It would be the 007. They are the most similar. After that, everything else is quite different from it. CRBN has great tonality and is solid in all technical categories, but the 009 in comparison just does a few things quite better technically, similarly to it vs. the 007 (soundstage, imaging, detail.. mainly just sense of separation, openness and refinement overall). But if you want a stat that's much smoother/warmer, the CRBN is the way to go while still getting really good technical performance.


Super helpful, really appreciate your advice!


----------



## bearFNF (Jan 17, 2022)

BTD1 said:


> I am hoping that the wise folks reading this thread can help me come to an understanding of estat energizers driven by speaker amps vs estat amplifiers. I ask because I am looking at buying an sr x-9000 when available.  I currently have the Audeze CRBN through an iFi iESL energizer.  I can use a few different amps for power.  To my ears it sounds good. If more power is needed, say for a Stax srx 9000, a more powerful power amp is much cheaper than the dedicated estat amplifiers from Stax and other companies.  So, I just want to understand why, energizers such as the iFi IESL aren't talked about on the same level as Blue Hawaii, or the Stax T8000? Wasn't the Stax system originally conceived using an energizer powered by an amp?


The nice thing about the energizers is the ability to use different power amps to flavor the sound to your liking and they are cheaper for the most part. So easier to get started with estats if you already have an amp to use. It also does not take a lot of power (15W or so would be considered the minimum, IMO) to drive any of the earspeakers that I am aware of (be it Stax 009/007/Lambdas, Voce, etc.).

However, IMHO, energizers (like the SRD7, iFi iESL, Woo Wee etc.) are just "adequate" for driving Estats, the dedicated amps are much better at driving the earspeakers to their potential. I don't say full potential, as I am not sure what that would be. This is my opinion after having listened to Earspeakers since the 80's and to lots and lots of different set-ups. Don't get me wrong, they sound fine and I used an SRD7 for several years from a little Toppings amp (~30 watts) and was happy... until I saved up and got a BHSE... Now the toppings is on a shelf and the SRD7 and Woo Wee are stored. as always YMMV, IMHO, etc.


----------



## BTD1

bearFNF said:


> The nice thing about the energizers is the ability to use different power amps to flavor the sound to your liking and they are cheaper for the most part. So easier to get started with estats if you already have an amp to use. It also does not take a lot of power (15W or so would be considered the minimum, IMO) to drive any of the earspeakers that I am aware of (be it Stax 009/007/Lambdas, Voce, etc.).
> 
> However, IMHO, energizers (like the SRD7, iFi iESL, Woo Wee etc.) are just "adequate" for driving Estats, the dedicated amps are much better at driving the earspeakers to their potential. I don't say full potential, as I am not sure what that would be. This is my opinion after having listened to Earspeakers since the 80's and to lots and lots of different set-ups. Don't get me wrong, they sound fine and I used an SRD7 for several years from a little Toppings amp (~30 watts) and was happy... until I saved up and got a BHSE... Now the toppings is on a shelf and the SRD7 and Woo Wee are stored. as always YMMV, IMHO, etc.


Thanks for your perspective.  This is exactly what I am looking to understand.  The Blue Hawaii is a tube unit.  Can the same degree of excellence be achieved in the solid state realm?


----------



## goldwerger

BTD1 said:


> Thanks for your perspective.  This is exactly what I am looking to understand.  The Blue Hawaii is a tube unit.  Can the same degree of excellence be achieved in the solid state realm?


For superb quality solid state (and tube) estat amps, check out Mjolnir Audio - https://mjolnir-audio.com/ @spritzer builds some of the highest quality estat amps out there (and is an absolute joy to order from). I just got the Carbon and enjoying it with the 007mk1. It is an absolute marvel. There is some explanation here about its common gate topology, which results in a similar effect to that achieved by the BHSE tube amplification: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mjolnir-audio-electrostatic-amps.769105/page-3#post-11675294


----------



## bearFNF

BTD1 said:


> Thanks for your perspective.  This is exactly what I am looking to understand.  The Blue Hawaii is a tube unit.  Can the same degree of excellence be achieved in the solid state realm?


Yes, it can, but different, LOL. I have a Cavalli Liquid Lightening 2 Solid State, LL2SS, and it is very nice with my SR007 MKII. I have also heard the Carbon @goldwerger mentioned and it is very nice. Also the KGSSHV was very nice, I see he has a new (to me) version that looks promising. I think SS amps pair well with the 007 MKII and the Voce, it is nice with the 009 but can be a slightly sibilant/harsh with certain tracks. For reference, if it it helps, it is less troubling that the HD800 with "bright" amps. So still very enjoyable, but may need to take a break after a few hours of listening.


----------



## Pastwa

Both the SRD7 and Woo Wee are sort of low-end energizers, the iFi iESL I would rank above them, but you can also get commissioned an energizer built to a higher spec like with every other amp, this path is worth exploring, especially if you already own a very good speaker amp.


----------



## BTD1

Pastwa said:


> Both the SRD7 and Woo Wee are sort of low-end energizers, the iFi iESL I would rank above them, but you can also get commissioned an energizer built to a higher spec like with every other amp, this path is worth exploring, especially if you already own a very good speaker amp.


The information I am collecting here from seasoned estat owners is really great.   I think I know how my 2022 audio budget will be spent!


----------



## musicman59

goldwerger said:


> Sajid,
> Try the Bricasti M3, which is a beautifully sounding DAC (and as amp in the M3h version). I’m plugging it these days to my Mjolnir Carbon and 007mk1. It may be a perfect fit…


+1 on the Bricasti M3.
I own a fully loaded M3 (network card, remote and headphones output) and I am very happy with it.
It has a great analog volume control so it can be use also to drive an amplifier directly. It is a fully balanced design including the headphones amp. Out of the headphones output it can even drive the Susvara.

In use it as my all in one nightstand unit connected to my LAN using Roon.


----------



## BassicScience (Jan 17, 2022)

Pastwa said:


> Both the SRD7 and Woo Wee are sort of low-end energizers, the iFi iESL I would rank above them, but you can also get commissioned an energizer built to a higher spec like with every other amp, this path is worth exploring, especially if you already own a very good speaker amp.


I'm curious to hear more about these commissioned energizers "built to a higher spec" than the iESL, which I currently own. The transformers in the iESL were custom-designed by iFi specifically for driving estats, and are very high tech. The biasing circuit is also very clever and high quality in the iESL. Given that, I'm a bit dubious that most, if any, DIY energizer solutions would best the iESL technically, but I'm open-minded.

I'll also say that I'm getting very high quality audio though my iESL. I recently auditioned my Shangri-la Junior through a BHSE at The Source AV and didn't necessarily feel like it was on another level from my setup. The bass, in particular, was not as palpable through the BHSE. Mind you, I was using a different DAC (Chord DAVE) at the shop and didn't have my equipment there for a direct A/B, so I can't make any definitive statements at this point, but I did gain confidence that I'm not leaving a ton on the table with the iESL in my current setup.

As a relative estat newbie, I'm looking forward to auditioning more estat amps/energizers as I have access to them. Since I already own a stellar preamp, I really wish the makers of estat amps would sell discrete *estat power amps* in addition to the ubiquitous integrated amps they all offer.


----------



## eskamobob1

Chefguru said:


> It sounds more 007 than 009, but has a presentation similar to the He90 family.
> It's hard to rank things because the tonal balance is so different.
> 
> Tier 1) Sr-omega / He-90/ He-1 / SGL Sr / possibly SRX9k
> ...



I have only demoed both and not owned but TBH I would put HE-60 atleast on the same tier as 009 as a whole package. The added cohesion and much much more balanced tonality I think deserve it that placement. That said, I'm not exactly a fan of the OG 009 so...


----------



## Chefguru

eskamobob1 said:


> I have only demoed both and not owned but TBH I would put HE-60 atleast on the same tier as 009 as a whole package. The added cohesion and much much more balanced tonality I think deserve it that placement. That said, I'm not exactly a fan of the OG 009 so...



Yeah - I made the tiers, but they're all kind of in the same league with different flavors outside of maybe the T1 stuff.
I've owned/heard the 009S (with jazz), He90 (with classical), 007 MK1 (with layered electronics) reach peak summit hi-fi on the right systems. 
I'm curious what the he60 can do on a T2, but don't expect it to reach that level. If you like the He60 you'll probably think the CRBN is above the 009.


----------



## lostrockets

was weighing my options to power new electrostatic headphones and future proof it for upgrades (eg stax sr 007. 

rather than get a dedicated amp i was looking into using my existing elekit 8200 with an adapter (uses speaker input ->electrostatic headphone output) but i read that amps with a transformer (eg elekit 8200) dont like to power another transformer which is what a stax adapter is...

can anyone clarify or explain why?


----------



## eskamobob1

Chefguru said:


> Yeah - I made the tiers, but they're all kind of in the same league with different flavors outside of maybe the T1 stuff.
> I've owned/heard the 009S (with jazz), He90 (with classical), 007 MK1 (with layered electronics) reach peak summit hi-fi on the right systems.
> I'm curious what the he60 can do on a T2, but don't expect it to reach that level. If you like the He60 you'll probably think the CRBN is above the 009.


yah, I guess it wouldnt suprise me to find out the 009 scales further than the h60. ive only heard both on a BHSE tbh. would be cool to try both on something like a 3es or t2


----------



## makan (Jan 18, 2022)

eskamobob1 said:


> yah, I guess it wouldnt suprise me to find out the 009 scales further than the h60. ive only heard both on a BHSE tbh. would be cool to try both on something like a 3es or t2


I have the 009S, ES1A, shangrila jr, 007mk1, HE60 and just sold my 009.  The HE60 has something unique in that I enjoy its mids and the vocals the most compared to the other hps.  They sound very nice out of my tube amps (megatron and headamp aristaeus).


----------



## Chefguru

Funny hack that happen to me yesterday by accident. 
If anyone is complaining about the sr009/sr009s not having enough bass - if you flip the headband upside down and wear it that way it increases the clamping force and creates a better seal = more bass.

Might be time to DIY a new headband


----------



## monsterxman (Jan 20, 2022)

Have had chance to compare Lambda NB with 404 signatures and they both have their merits.  404 are probably technically better in most / all? respects - bass, detail retrieval, brighter, cleaner sounding, and more dynamic.

The NB are less fatiguing and I now know why so many love them.  There’s a bit of subdued magic in how they sound.  Hard to really put to words.  For me they are set, forget and just get lost in your music.  They do enough of the good things you expect of an electrostat while being so easy on the ears.  Thanks to those who replied to me earlier.

With that said, If anyone has a pair of low bias Sigma’s they want to unload, please drop me a note.  My setup is optimized for low bias and those might be my end game.


----------



## Menkau-ra

monsterxman said:


> Have had chance to compare Lambda NB with 404 signatures and they both have their merits.  404 are probably technically better in most / all? respects - bass, detail retrieval, brighter, cleaner sounding, and more dynamic.



Is it true that 404 have the most bass from all Lambdas?


----------



## padam

Menkau-ra said:


> Is it true that 404 have the most bass from all Lambdas?


That would be the Lambda Pro I think, but of course it depends on where the emphasis is.
There is also the 404LE with a bit deeper bass compared to the normal one.

And also worth mentioning that the amp has just as much effect on the bass as the choice of headphone.


----------



## Menkau-ra

padam said:


> That would be the Lambda Pro I think, but of course it depends on where the emphasis is.
> There is also the 404LE with a bit deeper bass compared to the normal one.
> 
> And also worth mentioning that the amp has just as much effect on the bass as the choice of headphone.


Seems like 404LE are the most expensive Lambda on the second market.


----------



## padam (Jan 22, 2022)

Menkau-ra said:


> Seems like 404LE are the most expensive Lambda on the second market.


That is why I was pointing out the amp differences, you can spend more on that instead, just focusing on what has more bass alone is not necessarily the most important aspect. To give you an example: the Lambda Nova Signature might have slightly less bass than the 404, but because the high notes are smoother you can hear the bass more cleanly. Even changing tubes on an SRM-T1 can have a significant effect on bass quantity.
To make comparisons even more complicated, with certain headphones, you might not even listen at the same volume level, with estats changing the volume is not as linear as with other types of headphones.


----------



## dynavit

Menkau-ra said:


> Is it true that 404 have the most bass from all Lambdas?


You can compare frequencyresponses of all Stax-Models here: https://www.inexxon.com/stax-übersicht-history/stax-kopfhörer-headphones/


----------



## goldwerger

padam said:


> That is why I was pointing out the amp differences, you can spend more on that instead, just focusing on what has more bass alone is not necessarily the most important aspect. To give you an example: the Lambda Nova Signature might have slightly less bass than the 404, but because the high notes are smoother you can hear the bass more cleanly. Even changing tubes on an SRM-T1 can have a significant effect on bass quantity.
> To make comparisons even more complicated, with certain headphones, you might not even listen at the same volume level, with estats changing the volume is not as linear as with other types of headphones.


I’ve noticed that non-linearity as well. I’d love to understand the reason for that? Thanks..


----------



## zolkis

dynavit said:


> You can compare frequencyresponses of all Stax-Models here: https://www.inexxon.com/stax-übersicht-history/stax-kopfhörer-headphones/



Having measured many of these myself, these look very similar to my measurements (I am kind of relieved).
Look at that SR-Omega plot... so smooth up to around 2K, subjectively quite critical for good sound IMHO.


----------



## dynavit

zolkis said:


> Having measured many of these myself, these look very similar to my measurements (I am kind of relieved).
> Look at that SR-Omega plot... so smooth up to around 2K, subjectively quite critical for good sound IMHO.


The good thing with these measurments is, that they are all made with the same instruments. So you can compare the different modells.


----------



## Petergrifindor (Jan 23, 2022)

Hi everyone, newcomer to the forum and the hobby.

After a lifetime of playing and collecting music, but without putting money on Hifi equipment,  I decided to get myself a high-end headphone set.

I have been educating myself for a couple of  months online about this world, and yesterday was the first day I went to try headphones. Luckily I live in a country that have great shops with a good selection of them. The people of the two stores I visited was super helpful. I could try all the headphones comfortably with my music ( a mix of rock, metal, pop, classical, jazz, blues and folk that I made with this purpose) and for all the time I wanted, no interruptions.

I made two stops.

In the first shop I tried the Abyss 1266 Phi TC, Audece LCD-5, Focal Utopia, and Meze Elite. The amp for all headphones was the Formula S from XI audio, and the DAC  the Chord Dave. These were my PERSONAL impressions:

-Abyss: Bass was amazing, the best one I heard all day. You can feel in your body like if you were using speakers (that was a surprise). The spacing and soundstage were great, the timber of all instruments very natural. Almost everything was great BUT in some of the pieces I played I found that certain parts that should be prominent became recessed in the mix (normally lead voices, or instrument in the mids section), making the songs sound weird. I found this defect in enough tracks to be bothersome.

-Audece LCD-5: Bass was great but I didn’t like the soundstage (every sound  seemed to came  from inside my head, too close) and the timber of the instruments was not natural at all, especially on guitars.

-Focal Utopia: Timber of all instruments sounded very natural, but I didn’t like them very much. Music seemed to lack energy with them. Just the opposite of the Audece, everything sounded too far.

-Meze Elite: a nice surprise, since I wasn’t aware of their existence, and I found that they did everything quite good. Timber, Bass-Midi-Treble, spacing, soundstage… everything was good and nice. But nothing truly outstanding or superb (like the Bass or the soundstage with the Abyss)


The construction of all 4 was amazing. Very very high quality on all the parts.

But to be honest I walked out of the first shop a little disappointed. What I heard, to me it’s not worth the price of admission, and I think I can do better with  a good chosen speaker system that would cost the same of any of the headphones.

Second stop: STAX retailer.

They had the 009s, the new X9000 (only the one for audition, not examples to sell for at least another month), the 007 mkII and a bunch of older ones for audition. Only Stax amps, but with good variety. Apart from the 700s, they had all the rest of the current Stax offering.

So I choose the T8000 as an amp, and reproduced the music through a PS Audio  Direct Stream DAC.

After 30 seconds of listening to the 009s, I knew why you guys are referred as a cult. In 30 seconds I have completely forgotten all previous headphones I tried during the morning and knew that it’s going to be a Stax. That’s it. This things sound celestial to my ears, it’s really something else. I really wasn’t expecting something as great like this. Pure Bliss.

I only tried the 009s and the X9000, but since I know the new ones aren’t widely available yet, I think you might like to read a small comparison.

Construction wise, I found the X9000 to be much better. Every part was made with good steel, no cheap plastic parts apart from two small pieces used to adjust the height of the headphones (not the whole pieces, only the part you have to press).  It’s way prettier in real life that in photos. The 009s in comparison, although good looking, seemed somewhat “cheap” because all the plastic parts used (the cheaper feeling of all the headphones I tried during the day).


Sound-wise, both earphones sounded AMAZING to me. Timber:10, soundstage:10, spacing:10, on both.

The 009s is kind of light in bass, but that allows to discern a lot of details of the meds and treble parts of the music without any effort. Music doesn’t sound busy at all with this one even with full orchestras. I would say Highs 10, Meds 9, Bass 7 resolution 10. Very ethereal sounding, I just loved them.

The X9000 has much more bass (sorry I didn’t tried the 007 for bass comparison, but I was mesmerized with he two I was already using) which changes the character of the headphone. It’s a harder to drive earphone than the 009s, you need to turn up more the volume. Things seems to have more weight to them in this one, and that seems to rest just a little bit of resolution in the highs. Just a tiny bit.  Bass 9, Meds 9, High 9, Resolution 9. Also heavenly sounding.

If I were to buy only one, right now I think I would go for the X9000, because the construction is that much nicer, and overall I might prefer how it sounds. But that’s not the plan.

The new plan is to get both, and the amp. I might need to save money for a little more time, but I don’t care.

About the amp, I found the T8000 fantastic. I have read a lot about the BHSE, the Carbon the HGSSHV,  T2 etc, and how Stax amps fall short in comparison, but to be honest, I wont buy anything of that price without trying first when I have available an option I have tested and that sounds this incredible. I loved that it allows to connect both headphones at the same time, so I would be able make listening sessions with a friend or with my girl.

Stax earphones definitely make the cost of admission worth it. The music was presented to me like I have never heard in my whole life. They have floored me, I have seen the light, and now I’m a convert.

What I heard yesterday was lovely. Simply perfect.


----------



## FredSD (Jan 24, 2022)

A few possible points of interest for the Stax Lover.  Mal Valve now has 3 headphone amplifiers to drive Stax, other electrostatic headphones,
dynamic cans, planars and in the case of the new Head Amp One and Head Amp Five, the RAAL SR1A as well. 
Adding to the well known Mal Valve Head Amp Three V.4  are the new Mal Valve Head One and their new king of the hill, the Mal Valve
Head Amp Five...a headphone amplifier like no other.   We are stocking units and are proud to be handling the US on their behalf.  We were so
impressed that we will also be carrying their own electrostatic headphone, sources, amplification, loudspeaker and turntable. (everyone should hear
magnetostatic bass and midrange coupled to an electrostatic tweeter.)   Feel free to come look at our site for further information.


----------



## urs (Jan 23, 2022)

Petergrifindor​Welcome to the Forum and nice to learn that more "Swissies" are joining us.

You seem to live in the Lausanne area, but do I guess correctly, that you did a visit to Zürich ?
There two shops here that match your description, for instance K55 and Audio Vinyl ?

I’m curious how your search for the _“Holy Grail of Head Phones”_ progresses.

Best regards from Wädenswil “am Zürisee”

Urs

BTW: my new X9000 replaces an 009S – _it was a VERY clear & easy decision _ 

For the X9000  you may also follow this Thread
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-x9000.959852/page-53

and yes   - we "Swissies" even have our own Thread !!
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-swiss-head-fiers-official-census.956829/


----------



## Petergrifindor

urs said:


> Petergrifindor​Welcome to the Forum and nice to learn that more "Swissies" are joining us.
> 
> You seem to live in the Lausanne area, but do I guess correctly, that you did a visit to Zürich ?
> There two shops here that match your description, for instance K55 and Audio Vinyl ?
> ...


Yeah, you nailed it. Those two where the shops. What a fantastic set of people work over there. They were ultra nice.

I'm not Swiss but by adoption. I'm a spaniard but have been living here for three years.

I would keep posting when I adquire or find new things. For the time would be mostly reading. There's tons to learn for us rookies.

Greetings.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Petergrifindor said:


> Hi everyone, newcomer to the forum and the hobby.
> 
> After a lifetime of playing and collecting music, but without putting money on Hifi equipment,  I decided to get myself a high-end headphone set.
> 
> ...




Really great set of impressions, especially for just a new comer. Absolutely agree with the TC and LCD-5 remarks. And fully echo the 009 comments. It's good to see another comparison between it and the x9000. It sounds like they are both somewhat closer in performance, which is something I've been trying to pick up on from the various posts. In either case, welcome to Stax (and the hobby ). The clarity and resolution is just amazing and generally unrivaled.


----------



## Petergrifindor (Jan 23, 2022)

number1sixerfan said:


> Really great set of impressions, especially for just a new comer. Absolutely agree with the TC and LCD-5 remarks. And fully echo the 009 comments. It's good to see another comparison between it and the x9000. It sounds like they are both somewhat closer in performance, which is something I've been trying to pick up on from the various posts. In either case, welcome to Stax (and the hobby ). The clarity and resolution is just amazing and generally unrivaled.


Thanks mate.

Yeah the overall character of the 009s and the X9000 is not that distant, one is more light an ethereal and the other one more grounded. If they were people, they would be a pair of brothers that you can tell  come from the same family just by looking at their face, but you would never mistake one for the other.

People that would have liked the 009s to have more bass will love the new ones, because it's like exchanging just a tiny bit of clarity and resolution in highs for gaining a good deal of bass and weight in mids.


----------



## eskamobob1

FredSD said:


> A few possible points of interest for the Stax Lover.  Mal Valve now has 3 headphone amplifiers to drive Stax, other electrostatic headphones,
> dynamic cans, planars and in the case of the new Head Amp One and Head Amp Five, the RAAL SR1A as well.
> Adding to the well known Mal Valve Head Amp Three V.4  are the new Mal Valve Head One and their new king of the hill, the Mal Valve
> Head Amp Five...a headphone amplifier like no other.   We are stocking units and are proud to be handling the US on their behalf.  We were so
> ...



Do you by any chance work with any dealers that may have demos of your amps in the socal area?


----------



## buzzlulu (Jan 23, 2022)

Just a quick reply (on vacation) from someone who owns both the 009S and X9000 running off a Mjolnir Carbon (with a Kerry T2 inbound) fronted by a Linn Klimax DS.

I am just starting to come to grips with my X9000.  Initially one may think it is slightly less resolving than the 009S as it now presents a fuller bass response. In reality if one listens the X9000 is just as resolving - do not let the increased bass “mask” the detail - it is all there.

My EARLY impression is the X9000 are more musical and involving. They now offer a complete response much in the same way the addition of a subwoofer does in a 2 channel system. This results in more musicality and it draws one into listening even more.

There is enough of a difference between the two that I found them to be complimentary - bad for anyone who thought they would sell the 009S on the upgrade. I am definitely keeping both.

PS also agree with the comments that the X9000 puts you several rows back in the audience


----------



## Chefguru

buzzlulu said:


> Just a quick reply (on vacation) from someone who owns both the 009S and X9000 running off a Mjolnir Carbon (with a Kerry T2 inbound) fronted by a Linn Klimax DS.
> 
> I am just starting to come to grips with my X9000.  Initially one may think it is slightly less resolving than the 009S as it now presents a fuller bass response. In reality if one listens the X9000 is just as resolving - do not let the increased bass “mask” the detail - it is all there.
> 
> ...


Is the soundstage not a big difference between the st009s and srx9k?


----------



## FredSD

eskamobob1 said:


> Do you by any chance work with any dealers that may have demos of your amps in the socal area?


We're currently deciding what distribution will look like for Mal Valve.  It will likely be a satellite situation where their headfi is concerned.  We don't have someone picked out for Socal just yet.


----------



## FredSD

FredSD said:


> We're currently deciding what distribution will look like for Mal Valve.  It will likely be a satellite situation where their headfi is concerned.  We don't have someone picked out for Socal just yet.


----------



## number1sixerfan

buzzlulu said:


> PS also agree with the comments that the X9000 puts you several rows back in the audience



I keep hearing this and it's the only thing concerning me. Everything else sounds amazing and it seems like it's going to be a good complement to what I have. 

When mentioning this, is it similar to vocals or mids sounding recessed? I'm trying to understand what people really mean when saying this. Again though, besides that it sounds like it's amazing and I can't wait to get my pair.


----------



## Petergrifindor

number1sixerfan said:


> I keep hearing this and it's the only thing concerning me. Everything else sounds amazing and it seems like it's going to be a good complement to what I have.
> 
> When mentioning this, is it similar to vocals or mids sounding recessed? I'm trying to understand what people really mean when saying this. Again though, besides that it sounds like it's amazing and I can't wait to get my pair.


Not at all. 

To me the soundstage between them is just the same. Flawless, 10 out of 10, with every instrument or voice sounding where and with the level I would want it to do.


----------



## buzzlulu

number1sixerfan said:


> I keep hearing this and it's the only thing concerning me. Everything else sounds amazing and it seems like it's going to be a good complement to what I have.
> 
> When mentioning this, is it similar to vocals or mids sounding recessed? I'm trying to understand what people really mean when saying this. Again though, besides that it sounds like it's amazing and I can't wait to get my pair.


Maybe initially concerning because it is DIFFERENT from what the 009S is. Different can mean just as good - and it also can be better. The important thing is that it Is not worse. That is why I think one will want to keep both the 009S and X9000.

I still have a lot of listening to do as I am at the very beginning (even though my pair arrived in November).

Then again for me all things will change once I start listening with the T2 in place of my Carbon. The T2 definitely changed my 009S when I demoed


----------



## goldwerger

How do you guys find the 009s and X9000 compare to the 007mk1? I recently got the latter with a Carbon (Mjolnir) which I love. I wonder what the difference qualitatively might be..


----------



## number1sixerfan

buzzlulu said:


> Maybe initially concerning because it is DIFFERENT from what the 009S is. Different can mean just as good - and it also can be better. The important thing is that it Is not worse. That is why I think one will want to keep both the 009S and X9000.
> 
> I still have a lot of listening to do as I am at the very beginning (even though my pair arrived in November).
> 
> Then again for me all things will change once I start listening with the T2 in place of my Carbon. The T2 definitely changed my 009S when I demoed



Appreciate the insight. I'm not concerned because it's different though, I'm expecting that. Recessed mids are particularly a problem for me, that's why I wonder and ask. It's been a bit hard to get clarity on this. But the post prior is helpful and the fact that so many, like yourself, love it the way you do is pretty encouraging.


----------



## eskamobob1

number1sixerfan said:


> Appreciate the insight. I'm not concerned because it's different though, I'm expecting that. Recessed mids are particularly a problem for me, that's why I wonder and ask. It's been a bit hard to get clarity on this. But the post prior is helpful and the fact that so many, like yourself, love it the way you do is pretty encouraging.


Tbh, I kinda feel like a stax focused thread is one of the worst places you can possibly ask about recessed vocals. I find more variation in the definition of whats recessed from stax folks than basically anywhere else. Ive seen a few people call 009(non-s) vocals lush and vivid in love lorn reviews and I think they are light and body less even compared to something like susvara which already has (in my mind) fairly neutral vocal weighting. Certainly not lush like HE60 or LCD-R. Meanwhile I've also seen people call 009S vocals massively recessed (well textured but recessed) and as a mid head I honestly quite enjoy the body 009S has on its vocals. Maybe amps play a role in these impressions more so than on tradional transducers but thats even further highlights that the answers just seem to be all over the place tbh


----------



## BTD1

It has been implied that as regards to Stax headphones and e-stats in general, the amplifier has a greater role in shaping or even changing the sound than would be the case with planar or dynamic headphones.  Being new to e-stats, I would like to understand why this is the case, especially considering the price of TOTL e-stat amplifiers.  Is there a set of rules or guidelines to consider when making such a significant investment in equipment?  I don't want to buy, sell, repeat.  I'd like to get it right the first time.  Several names commonly show up in these forums, such as Mjolnir, Kevin Gilmore, Blue Hawaii, Stax, etc.  Any guidance would be helpful.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Jan 23, 2022)

eskamobob1 said:


> Tbh, I kinda feel like a stax focused thread is one of the worst places you can possibly ask about recessed vocals. I find more variation in the definition of whats recessed from stax folks than basically anywhere else. Ive seen a few people call 009(non-s) vocals lush and vivid in love lorn reviews and I think they are light and body less even compared to something like susvara which already has (in my mind) fairly neutral vocal weighting. Certainly not lush like HE60 or LCD-R. Meanwhile I've also seen people call 009S vocals massively recessed (well textured but recessed) and as a mid head I honestly quite enjoy the body 009S has on its vocals. Maybe amps play a role in these impressions more so than on tradional transducers but thats even further highlights that the answers just seem to be all over the place tbh



I think we're talking about a few different things here. I would agree with others, vocals on the 009 are quite vivid and lush, although its overall sound is a bit more lean/brighter in nature than say the Susvara. But I enjoy vocals on the 009 more than I do the Susvara, although with those two headphones its just a toss up with personal preference in a lot of ways (for example, somebody that prefers a bit of warmth may prefer vocals on the Sus). However, in any case, vocals on the 009 are certainly front and center and not at all recessed. The HE60 and LCD-R are also both forward, as with the 009.  I haven't heard the S version, but I would be surprised if that's not the case with them as well. Amps definitely do make a huge difference with stats, probably more so than with planars/dynamics imo.

Recession _to me _is when parts of the music are positioned behind where they should be, vocals, instruments, etc. I too am a midrange fanatic, and that's why recessed mids irk me so much.


----------



## eee1111

BTD1 said:


> It has been implied that as regards to Stax headphones and e-stats in general, the amplifier has a greater role in shaping or even changing the sound than would be the case with planar or dynamic headphones.  Being new to e-stats, I would like to understand why this is the case, especially considering the price of TOTL e-stat amplifiers.  Is there a set of rules or guidelines to consider when making such a significant investment in equipment?  I don't want to buy, sell, repeat.  I'd like to get it right the first time.  Several names commonly show up in these forums, such as Mjolnir, Kevin Gilmore, Blue Hawaii, Stax, etc.  Any guidance would be helpful.


Search

There is a crazy amount of info on this


----------



## eskamobob1

number1sixerfan said:


> I think we're talking about a few different things here. I would agree with others, vocals on the 009 are quite vivid and lush, although its overall sound is a bit more lean/brighter in nature than say the Susvara. But I enjoy vocals on the 009 more than I do the Susvara, although with those two headphones its just a toss up with personal preference in a lot of ways (for example, somebody that prefers a bit of warmth may prefer vocals on the Sus). However, in any case, vocals on the 009 are certainly front and center and not at all recessed. The HE60 and LCD-R are also both forward, as with the 009.  I haven't heard the S version, but I would be surprised if that's not the case with them as well. Amps definitely do make a huge difference with stats, probably more so than with planars/dynamics imo.
> 
> Recession _to me _is when parts of the music are positioned behind where they should be, vocals, instruments, etc. I too am a midrange fanatic, and that's why recessed mids irk me so much.


We were indeed talking about different things then. I thought the vocal placement on the 009 was fine. I found them tonally recessed (lacking body is close to what I mean by not quite there, they just felt kinda flat) and often washed out if laid over a part of the track with decent treble energy (the opposite problem from a lot of mid-fi bass cannons ). Just FWIW I think the 009S have better mid texture/body from my experiences. I also like the over all tonal balance better and the added bass obviously lends to a classically meatier/warmer tonality over all compared to the non-s which I found could get kind thin. Just for disclosure, while I have head both on other enegizers, almost all of my tax time has been dave+blue -> BHSE with some NOS tubes that area bit on the warmer side


----------



## number1sixerfan

eskamobob1 said:


> We were indeed talking about different things then. I thought the vocal placement on the 009 was fine. I found them tonally recessed (lacking body is close to what I mean by not quite there, they just felt kinda flat) and often washed out if laid over a part of the track with decent treble energy (the opposite problem from a lot of mid-fi bass cannons ). Just FWIW I think the 009S have better mid texture/body from my experiences. I also like the over all tonal balance better and the added bass obviously lends to a classically meatier/warmer tonality over all compared to the non-s which I found could get kind thin. Just for disclosure, while I have head both on other enegizers, almost all of my tax time has been dave+blue -> BHSE with some NOS tubes that area bit on the warmer side



From everything I've read, the 009s does seem like a slight upgrade. But the differences don't seem large enough to entertain trying to upgrade. I bought the non-S version from someone that owned both and mentioned that the differences are slight in nature. He also said each had their pros. Because of that, I just haven't ever had an urge to try the 009s (money wise only, would love to hear them), even though I do suspect it may be a bit better. If someone wanted to trade, I'd do that, but I don't see that ever happening lol.

BHSE is really good with the 009. I have a mini T2 prototype here and for whatever reason it sounds perfect with the 009, better than I've ever heard it and more so than other pairings with it. But certainly the BHSE is more than capable.


----------



## eskamobob1

number1sixerfan said:


> I bought the non-S version from someone that owned both and mentioned that the differences are slight in nature. He also said each had their pros.


I agree with that. TBH I can 100% see people that like a more classic stax sound prefering the non-S


number1sixerfan said:


> Because of that, I just haven't ever had an urge to try the 009s (money wise only, would love to hear them), even though I do suspect it may be a bit better.


Im not even sure its an "upgrade". Its more of just 009 with slightly different tonality. I mostly bring it up because if someone heard the 009 and was not a fan that does not mean they wont like 009S. If you are happy with the 009 there is no reason to upgrade at all (plus not like you dont have enough gear with more standard tunings to play with when you want that anyways )


number1sixerfan said:


> BHSE is really good with the 009. I have a mini T2 prototype here and for whatever reason it sounds perfect with the 009, better than I've ever heard it and more so than other pairings with it. But certainly the BHSE is more than capable.


I am quite excited to see your mini-T2 vs T2 comparo once it arrives/you get a chance. I am very very curious whether there is some magic missing that just cant be had with the annoyingly hard to find NOS components (or maybe the crazy HV rails all over the place the T2 uses)


----------



## number1sixerfan

eskamobob1 said:


> I agree with that. TBH I can 100% see people that like a more classic stax sound prefering the non-S
> 
> Im not even sure its an "upgrade". Its more of just 009 with slightly different tonality. I mostly bring it up because if someone heard the 009 and was not a fan that does not mean they wont like 009S. If you are happy with the 009 there is no reason to upgrade at all (plus not like you dont have enough gear with more standard tunings to play with when you want that anyways )



Makes sense and that's good insight. I still really would like to hear them, I just don't see a way that I'll ever get to lol 



eskamobob1 said:


> I am quite excited to see your mini-T2 vs T2 comparo once it arrives/you get a chance. I am very very curious whether there is some magic missing that just cant be had with the annoyingly hard to find NOS components (or maybe the crazy HV rails all over the place the T2 uses)



I can't wait. I'll definitely have the chance to compare both side to side. I'm hoping I have my BHSE back by then as well, but not sure that I will. Will absolutely report back!


----------



## eskamobob1

number1sixerfan said:


> Makes sense and that's good insight. I still really would like to hear them, I just don't see a way that I'll ever get to lol



Are there no shops in your area that carry a stax demo? Tbh, I have a large number of 2 channel dealers in my area that also have an 009S rig on demo. Its nearly 10x easier to find those than it is conventional transducer headphone demos for me tbh


----------



## buzzlulu (Jan 23, 2022)

number1sixerfan said:


> Recession _to me _is when parts of the music are positioned behind where they should be, vocals, instruments, etc.



To me as well.

With the 009S the vocals (for me) are forward front and center. My early impression of the X9000 is of the vocals on the SAME horizontal line as everything else - nor recessed.  Perhaps that is why some have said the X9000 puts you center, a few rows back in the audience,  rather than on the stage like with the 009S


----------



## goldwerger

goldwerger said:


> How do you guys find the 009s and X9000 compare to the 007mk1? I recently got the latter with a Carbon (Mjolnir) which I love. I wonder what the difference qualitatively might be..



FWIW (not sure) came across this vid comparing the 007mk1 and X9000. Sharing in case of interest:


----------



## buzzlulu

BTD1 said:


> It has been implied that as regards to Stax headphones and e-stats in general, the amplifier has a greater role in shaping or even changing the sound than would be the case with planar or dynamic headphones.  Being new to e-stats, I would like to understand why this is the case, especially considering the price of TOTL e-stat amplifiers.  Is there a set of rules or guidelines to consider when making such a significant investment in equipment?  I don't want to buy, sell, repeat.  I'd like to get it right the first time.  Several names commonly show up in these forums, such as Mjolnir, Kevin Gilmore, Blue Hawaii, Stax, etc.  Any guidance would be helpful.



Stax recommends their totl T8000 amplifier for their totl 009S and X9000.
The Mjolnir Carbon is the same price or even slightly less.  The performance difference is night and day.
A lower priced KGSSHV most likely runs rings around the T8000


----------



## arnaud (Jan 23, 2022)

Petergrifindor said:


> Hi everyone, newcomer to the forum and the hobby.
> 
> After a lifetime of playing and collecting music, but without putting money on Hifi equipment,  I decided to get myself a high-end headphone set.
> 
> ...



Amazing, you arrived in 1 day to conclusions it took some of us years or decade to come to . For many, it’s not about the end but the journey on this forum, seems like you’ll settle quickly though! For amps, don’t think the journey ends at the stax offering, there really is a world beyond (esp. for 009/x9k type transducers).

Am in total agreement with you regarding the poor price/performance ratio of some headphone rigs, I’m so happy to be back with speakers these days . I surely wouldn’t mind an x9k with a carbon but am not psychologically ready to pay 6x the price of my speakers for something that still images nowhere near as good as a proper neardfield speaker setup does.

As for the concern on x9k recessed imaging, it’s the same old with headphones, the voicing among over things affects perceived width and depth. I’ve spent too little time with x9k but, it did sound more realistic in staging than the 009. I agree though the 009 has its charm in other areas such as « bite » and midrange presence. To be more exact, the x9k just lacked dynamics / drive out of the t8000 amp, to the point I told the stax sales director they now need to rework their amps . I can imagine a carbon or bhse (or a kerry commissioned diy t2 since cash flow doesn’t appear to be a concern for you from my guess 😂) would be the ultimate rig to log off the forum and come back again in 10 years…

 arnaud


----------



## buzzlulu

Just thought I would re post something I posted on the X9000 thread last week - particularly with regard to resolution:

"I am embarrassed to say, after having my X9000’s for almost 2 months, I have finally sat down and started spending quality time with them (Mjolnir Carbon w/ Linn Klimax DS source). Normally in my 2 channel world we talk about speakers being good if they are able to scale up and easily show each time one upgrades their source (DAC or turntable). In the case of the X9000 they show the shortcomings of my other headphones (009S, Utopia etc. ) which were unable to fully show all my Linn is capable of retrieving and putting out. I am hearing things my DAC is capable of extracting that my other cans are unable to play back. In addition the X9000 is highly musical. Even though it excels in detail one does not concentrate on its clinical abilities but rather the fact that it just plays the tune in a highly involving way."


----------



## buzzlulu

arnaud said:


> To be more exact, the x9k just lacked dynamics / drive out of the t8000 amp, to the point I told the stax sales director they now need to rework their amps . I can imagine a carbon or bhse (or a kerry commissioned diy t2 since cash flow doesn’t appear to be a concern for you from my guess 😂) would be the ultimate rig to log off the forum and come back again in 10 years…
> 
> arnaud



The X9000 has no such problem with the Carbon.
I might even go as far as saying it needs a touch of "extra" juice when compared to my 009S


----------



## number1sixerfan

eskamobob1 said:


> Are there no shops in your area that carry a stax demo? Tbh, I have a large number of 2 channel dealers in my area that also have an 009S rig on demo. Its nearly 10x easier to find those than it is conventional transducer headphone demos for me tbh



There are. I usually prefer having a different/new headphone in my own system for a week, but it probably is worth a demo given how well I know the 009. Good point. 



buzzlulu said:


> To me as well.
> 
> With the 009S the vocals (for me) are forward front and center. My early impression of the X9000 is of the vocals on the SAME horizontal line as everything else - nor recessed.  Perhaps that is why some have said the X9000 puts you center, a few rows back in the audience,  rather than on the stage like with the 009S



Thank you, this is really helpful! And also, can't wait for you to get your T2


----------



## eskamobob1

arnaud said:


> For many, it’s not about the end but the journey on this forum


Thats how I justified buying my first 1K can. Turns out one destination is just the beginning of a new (much more expensive) journey 


number1sixerfan said:


> There are. I usually prefer having a different/new headphone in my own system for a week, but it probably is worth a demo given how well I know the 009. Good point.


Oh, I'm the same way. I much, much prefer to have something in my own system, but if I have to demo it on an unknow chain just as a way to play around, so be it 🤷‍♀️. That said, ive been in this hobby short enough that I feel like there are constant new toys im discovering and trying to hunt down demos of still


----------



## Chefguru

goldwerger said:


> FWIW (not sure) came across this vid comparing the 007mk1 and X9000. Sharing in case of interest:



Not this guy again. Keeps changing his opinion  / repeats his points over and over in rants.
He’s also using a JR audio Carbon which , aka a Chinese knockoff, is known for poor quality.


----------



## goldwerger

Chefguru said:


> Not this guy again. Keeps changing his opinion  / repeats his points over and over in rants.
> He’s also using a JR audio Carbon which , aka a Chinese knockoff, is known for poor quality.


thanks for giving me context. I didn't see his other videos. I'm still searching for a reference point how the 007mk1 compares to some of the newer totl models. I'll be in canjam but can't imagine it will be quiet enough for a serious listen. any insight or reference to better sources would be most appreciated. (btw, I have the Carbon from Mjolnir, which I find remarkable with the 007mk1, but my reference point are other great dynamic and planar headphones, not estats)


----------



## Chefguru (Jan 23, 2022)

goldwerger said:


> thanks for giving me context. I didn't see his other videos. I'm still searching for a reference point how the 007mk1 compares to some of the newer totl models. I'll be in canjam but can't imagine it will be quiet enough for a serious listen. any insight or reference to better sources would be most appreciated. (btw, I have the Carbon from Mjolnir, which I find remarkable with the 007mk1, but my reference point are other great dynamic and planar headphones, not estats)



I also own the Mjolnir Carbon and think the 007mk1 is a top tier1 headphone. I just think this guy has lost a lot of credibility for being able to evaluate what he's hearing.

I can't find the thread, but for those who weren't around when the sr-009 came out in 2011 there was a big shortage of units similar to what's happening with the SRX9K. All of the reviews that did come out said it was the best headphone of all time (even surpassing the He90). But then finally a meet came together somewhere in Asia and a lucky few brought together the he90/hev90, sr-007mk1, Sr-omega, and the sr-009. They had not only a BHSE but a full-on DIY-T2. The consensus if I remember correctly was unanimously:
1) he90
2) sr007mk1
3) sr009
4) sr-omega

A few people preferred the sr009 over the sr007, but most felt the above was the correct order. There were many that also felt the sr-007 was better than the he90 on the T2, but the he90 took the edge back on the hev90. It's funny now, 11 years later, people instead think the order is:

1) He90 tied with Sr-omega
2) Sr007 mk1 tied with Sr-009s
3) Sr-009
4) Sr-007 mk2
This to me is more of a factor that the sr-omega is so rare only those who own it can talk highly about it (and likely prefer it over the modern sound). There is even a sr-omega for sale right now in the classified where the owner point blank states he prefers his sr-009s.

This all said... my gut after listening to TOTL headphones for almost 20 years, is that the SRX9K will be majority preferred over the Sr007mk1 and please both fans of the sr009 (who wish it had more bass), and the sr-omega (who wish it had more control). To me, this balance is likely the best Stax can do the omega design and the Sr-x9k may truly be the last of that lineage.


----------



## goldwerger

Chefguru said:


> I also own the Mjolnir Carbon and think the 007mk1 is a top tier1 headphone. I just think this guy has lost a lot of credibility for being able to evaluate what he's hearing.
> 
> I can't find the thread, but for those who weren't around when the sr-009 came out in 2011 there was a big shortage of units similar to what's happening with the SRX9K. All of the reviews that did come out said it was the best headphone of all time (even surpassing the He90). But then finally a meet came together somewhere in Asia and a lucky few brought together the he90/hev90, sr-007mk1, Sr-omega, and the sr-009. They had not only a BHSE but a full-on DIY-T2. The consensus if I remember correctly was unanimously:
> 1) he90
> ...



Thanks for this awesome write up. I definitely wasn't around in the heapdhone scene back then, and wasn't around in the estat scene until recently. So this helps me quite a bit in catching up both for context and knowledge. I apprecite it!

I'll have to wait patiently until the X9K arrives for a good hands on demo. I suppose there is no rush, but it seems like there is no substitute for proper testing on my own in a quiet environment. Luckily I'm in NYC and I expect this should be possible in the coming months. If I do manage that, at min I will report my own impressions, as uninformed as they may be.

I do wonder about one headphone that isn't on your least I saw Birgir mentioning somewhere, the SE60. Where would you put it on your list above?

I do feel quite great about my mk1 which I'm really growing to love. It looks like the constant gear-head pursuit of the next best thing isn't quite necessary, and I might have prematurely arrived at nirvana..


----------



## Chefguru

goldwerger said:


> Thanks for this awesome write up. I definitely wasn't around in the heapdhone scene back then, and wasn't around in the estat scene until recently. So this helps me quite a bit in catching up both for context and knowledge. I apprecite it!
> 
> I'll have to wait patiently until the X9K arrives for a good hands on demo. I suppose there is no rush, but it seems like there is no substitute for proper testing on my own in a quiet environment. Luckily I'm in NYC and I expect this should be possible in the coming months. If I do manage that, at min I will report my own impressions, as uninformed as they may be.
> 
> ...



Found it. Lots of nice photos too. Keep in mind this was 2011. Sr009S was not out yet (2018).

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sr-009-vs-orpheus-sr-omega-o2s.570050/page-10#post-7919341

"Thai Head-fi mini-meeting in Bangkok, Thailand went well today.  There were 7 participants including me today.  We did a lot of intensive listening and did some tube rollings.  KT77 Gold Lion from Kiertijai didn't play music on this T2 as well as Officebird's Mullard EL34.  Our unanimous consensus was that Orpheus was still the best sounding headphone.  For second place, most of us liked SR007MK1.  SR009 came in third and followed by SR-Omega mesh stators. "


----------



## eskamobob1

Chefguru said:


> I also own the Mjolnir Carbon and think the 007mk1 is a top tier1 headphone. I just think this guy has lost a lot of credibility for being able to evaluate what he's hearing.
> 
> I can't find the thread, but for those who weren't around when the sr-009 came out in 2011 there was a big shortage of units similar to what's happening with the SRX9K. All of the reviews that did come out said it was the best headphone of all time (even surpassing the He90). But then finally a meet came together somewhere in Asia and a lucky few brought together the he90/hev90, sr-007mk1, Sr-omega, and the sr-009. They had not only a BHSE but a full-on DIY-T2. The consensus if I remember correctly was unanimously:
> 1) he90
> ...


I didn't realize that omega was still for sale. Tbh I figured it would be snapped up quick


----------



## Chefguru

eskamobob1 said:


> I didn't realize that omega was still for sale. Tbh I figured it would be snapped up quick


There are actually two sr-omega's for sale both at 9k~. I would buy it except I worry there is only max 500 hours left on drivers that old.


----------



## tabness

Mine was sold a while back (just to prempt any more inquiries lol)


----------



## goldwerger

Chefguru said:


> Found it. Lots of nice photos too. Keep in mind this was 2011. Sr009S was not out yet (2018).
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sr-009-vs-orpheus-sr-omega-o2s.570050/page-10#post-7919341
> 
> "Thai Head-fi mini-meeting in Bangkok, Thailand went well today.  There were 7 participants including me today.  We did a lot of intensive listening and did some tube rollings.  KT77 Gold Lion from Kiertijai didn't play music on this T2 as well as Officebird's Mullard EL34.  Our unanimous consensus was that Orpheus was still the best sounding headphone.  For second place, most of us liked SR007MK1.  SR009 came in third and followed by SR-Omega mesh stators. "



Thanks, now that's an interesting thread! (and so cool it can be references in this forum from over a decade back!!)

Really appreciate it


----------



## padam

Chefguru said:


> I also own the Mjolnir Carbon and think the 007mk1 is a top tier1 headphone. I just think this guy has lost a lot of credibility for being able to evaluate what he's hearing.





Chefguru said:


> This all said... my gut after listening to TOTL headphones for almost 20 years, is that the SRX9K will be majority preferred over the Sr007mk1 and please both fans of the sr009 (who wish it had more bass), and the sr-omega (who wish it had more control). To me, this balance is likely the best Stax can do the omega design and the Sr-x9k may truly be the last of that lineage.


People are berating this guy for no reason at all.
He has put himself out there (on video) and admitting certain things changing certainly sounds more authentic than a lot of back and forth posts of other people.
He described the sound he is hearing with certain music.
He even illustrates it.
Anybody who watches that video can describe if this presentation is good for him or not.

There are certain things true regarding this and that, but X9000 is definitely not a "summary" of the SR-Omega and SR009. I know this, because I tested all three very recently.

And no, it is not the last of the lineage. I am 100% certain that tweaked models will follow, since it seems like a business success, but it may take many years.


----------



## Chefguru

padam said:


> People are berating this guy for no reason at all.
> He has put himself out there (on video) and admitting certain things changing certainly sounds more authentic than a lot of back and forth posts of other people.
> He described the sound he is hearing with certain music.
> He even illustrates it.
> ...



I see the hypocrisy of my own comment on where I see the marketing of the headphone going - the issue with the YT’er is that he’s made many “final” statements with theatrical certainty that it’s difficult to gauge what his opinion is.

I’m sure Stax will continue to make more tweaks. I’m less certain they can improve on the design substantially. The srx9k is a revisit of the sr-omega design with innovation of the sr-009S technology.


----------



## padam

Chefguru said:


> I see the hypocrisy of my own comment on where I see the marketing of the headphone going - the issue with the YT’er is that he’s made many “final” statements with theatrical certainty that it’s difficult to gauge what his opinion is.
> 
> I’m sure Stax will continue to make more tweaks. I’m less certain they can improve on the design substantially. The srx9k is a revisit of the sr-omega design with innovation of the sr-009S technology.


It does not matter. He seems like a genuinely nice guy who is enthusiastic about Stax, who received this headphone early and wants to share his opinion.
So even if he talked rubbish I would still not berate him.
I think the is providing an interesting insight about what happens when you receive a headphone like this. Plus, his opinion is not that much different to mine actually.
And, coincidentally, we also tested it on the similar amps as well (he has a standard KGSSHV and a JR Audio Carbon and again he shares everything about his setup.)

So far not many have them, so others may say completely different things, this is one of not many opinions, but there is no difference between all of them: either take them or leave them, simple as that.

He didn't say things like "planars are now beating electrostats because they are just as fast and have more slam."
This is more the type of "useful consumer advice" you'll come across here, or personal attacks., things like that.
I do not like that at all, and that's why I prefer not to share my impressions.


----------



## tjlindle (Jan 31, 2022)

Hi all, looking for some amp advice: Is there any Stax amp with a Normal Bias socket, that also has a Pro socket and would be sufficient to drive the 009?

Or would my only options there be to (a) have two amps, one for NB stuff, one for the 009, or (b) request a custom third-party amp (i.e. KGSSHV, Carbon) with both Pro and NB sockets?

EDIT: And for now I'm not necessarily considering the iESL for this purpose, though that does indeed have both a NB and Pro socket.


----------



## bigjako

tjlindle said:


> Hi all, looking for some amp advice: Is there any Stax amp with a Normal Bias socket, that also has a Pro socket and would be sufficient to drive the 009?
> 
> Or would my only options there be to (a) have two amps, one for NB stuff, one for the 009, or (b) request a custom third-party amp (i.e. KGSSHV, Carbon) with both Pro and NB sockets?
> 
> EDIT: And for now I'm not necessarily considering the iESL for this purpose, though that does indeed have both a NB and Pro socket.


If you get a custom build, you can have a NB socket and a Pro. That’s my next purchase, I think.  

Right now, I have two amps with both a Normal and Pro bias socket - a Bottlehead Stat and a CCS modded 006t.  Some may disagree but I think the 006t with the CCS mod would drive the 009 just fine.  It drives my ES-1a’s really well, and those are similar to 007s.  

Interestingly, I recently picked up an Eddie Current Electra and the ES-1a’s sound flat and compressed on it, but sound great on the 006t.   I’ve head they don’t play well with tube amps, and I guess the Electra really is all tube. My Lambdas sound expansive and slam on the Electra, though.


----------



## shabta

tjlindle said:


> Hi all, looking for some amp advice: Is there any Stax amp with a Normal Bias socket, that also has a Pro socket and would be sufficient to drive the 009?
> 
> Or would my only options there be to (a) have two amps, one for NB stuff, one for the 009, or (b) request a custom third-party amp (i.e. KGSSHV, Carbon) with both Pro and NB sockets?
> 
> EDIT: And for now I'm not necessarily considering the iESL for this purpose, though that does indeed have both a NB and Pro socket.


SRM 1 mk2 pro is a decent option, but I really like @bigjako suggestion. CCS modded 006t


----------



## tjlindle (Jan 31, 2022)

bigjako said:


> If you get a custom build, you can have a NB socket and a Pro. That’s my next purchase, I think.
> 
> Right now, I have two amps with both a Normal and Pro bias socket - a Bottlehead Stat and a CCS modded 006t.  Some may disagree but I think the 006t with the CCS mod would drive the 009 just fine.  It drives my ES-1a’s really well, and those are similar to 007s.
> 
> Interestingly, I recently picked up an Eddie Current Electra and the ES-1a’s sound flat and compressed on it, but sound great on the 006t.   I’ve head they don’t play well with tube amps, and I guess the Electra really is all tube. My Lambdas sound expansive and slam on the Electra, though.


Thanks, that 006t looks like a really solid option, I'm looking into it now along with the 007t. Do you happen to know if there is any notable performance difference between 006t and 007t (assuming both CCS modded)?

I think the endgame is a custom Carbon with both NB socket and Pro, but I want to work up to that and vet everything one at a time before going all in. Also I think I literally don't have space on my desk at the moment for a Carbon, lol.

Also, if you do end up getting a custom, let me know if you're selling the 006t  



shabta said:


> SRM 1 mk2 pro is a decent option, but I really like @bigjako suggestion. CCS modded 006t


I've got a SRM-1/mk2 here as my NB amp, I was considering picking up the 009 first and seeing how it runs out of the SRM-1 while I source a stronger amp. Just curious what the performance differential would be between SRM-1 and something like the 006t or 007t.


----------



## bigjako

Now that I got the Electra, I am going to sell the 006t and will use my Stat as my NB amp.  I was going to take a week or two to run some comparisons between the Electra and the 006t, just for fun before I list it.  Like I said, when I connected the ES-1a to the Electra I was really worried - it paired so much better with the 006t.  I'm going to roll some tubes on the Electra before I make the final decision, but my plan is to sell that 006t and put that towards a Carbon, since I've read that the ES-1a pairs nicely with sold state.

I had an SRM-T1S before the 006 and the difference was not that great, but when I did the CCS mod, it did feel like a very different amp, a lot more power and clarity.


----------



## tjlindle

Completely unrelated question to the ones above: does anyone have any experience with the SR-X mk3 Pro - either the real one or the DIY version - and what its power requirements are?

Put another way, can the stuff that competently drives Lambdas (SRM-1mk2, T1, 323/353) also drive the SR-X mk 3 Pro, or does it need something more powerful to really shine?


----------



## bearFNF

tjlindle said:


> Hi all, looking for some amp advice: Is there any Stax amp with a Normal Bias socket, that also has a Pro socket and would be sufficient to drive the 009?
> 
> Or would my only options there be to (a) have two amps, one for NB stuff, one for the 009, or (b) request a custom third-party amp (i.e. KGSSHV, Carbon) with both Pro and NB sockets?
> 
> EDIT: And for now I'm not necessarily considering the iESL for this purpose, though that does indeed have both a NB and Pro socket.


I have a BHSE with both normal and Pro sockets, order it form HeadAmp that way.


----------



## padam

tjlindle said:


> Completely unrelated question to the ones above: does anyone have any experience with the SR-X mk3 Pro - either the real one or the DIY version - and what its power requirements are?
> 
> Put another way, can the stuff that competently drives Lambdas (SRM-1mk2, T1, 323/353) also drive the SR-X mk 3 Pro, or does it need something more powerful to really shine?


I use the Gamma Pro which has the same transducers inside (but somewhat different character). Switching to the KGSSHV brings a noticeable improvement to the dynamics, bass depth, control and impact. But that does not mean it won't work reasonably well with Stax amps. The SR-X has a drier, less open sound, so I'd think that the 6S4A CCS modified 007t is probably your best bet (effectively a cut-down version of the KGST). I also found the SR-X Mk3 to be more source sensitive than most other Staxes.


----------



## timb5881

If we could persuade Stax into reintroduce the SRX3 Mk3 Pro, how much do you think it would retail for?   I would guess maybe $1500 or so.  If it was under $2k I would buy one.


----------



## padam

They are building on the legacy of certain things, but they are designing and manufacturing products that are now quite different. They don't use mechanical damping or double-sided adhesive to mount drivers or pads anymore. In theory, they could make something with a smaller circular transducer, but it would be completely different to the SR-X Mk3 Pro. I would assume they could make the spiritual successor to the SR-4070 to continue the monitor lineage.


----------



## BTD1

I am deciding whether or not I have space for a Mjolnir Carbon.  Would anyone be able to give me the dimensions?  I don't see the case measurements on the Mjolnir web site.


----------



## swissheadphonelover

BTD1 said:


> I am deciding whether or not I have space for a Mjolnir Carbon.  Would anyone be able to give me the dimensions?  I don't see the case measurements on the Mjolnir web site.


320mm wide, 350mm deep and 100mm tall, information from Mjolnir.


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## tjlindle (Feb 1, 2022)

I'd love to hear the 4070 but that thing is like a unicorn, more OG Omegas were posted on Classifieds here in the last couple years or so than 4070s lol.


bearFNF said:


> I have a BHSE with both normal and Pro sockets, order it form HeadAmp that way.


It's very likely that'll be the last upgrade, but I want to figure out which Omega I fundamentally like the most before I start really building the endgame setup on the chain side of things. For best synergy etc.


padam said:


> I use the Gamma Pro which has the same transducers inside (but somewhat different character). Switching to the KGSSHV brings a noticeable improvement to the dynamics, bass depth, control and impact. But that does not mean it won't work reasonably well with Stax amps. The SR-X has a drier, less open sound, so I'd think that the 6S4A CCS modified 007t is probably your best bet (effectively a cut-down version of the KGST). I also found the SR-X Mk3 to be more source sensitive than most other Staxes.


Thanks padam, that's good to hear because the modded 007t is looking like a nice way to incrementally move forward at the moment with my setup.

But I need to figure out where to source one for a decent price. A modded one is available right now from Mjolnir but for the price I could essentially just get a KGSSHV instead.


----------



## BTD1

If this is a dumb question I apologize.  In anticipation of an estat amp purchase I'm wondering if you can run cables from the rear XLR out of the estat amp to the XLR in of a regular headphone amp in order to control the volume of the headphone amp with a remote.  Is this just crazy or would it work?  Thanks.


----------



## BTD1

BTD1 said:


> If this is a dumb question I apologize.  In anticipation of an estat amp purchase I'm wondering if you can run cables from the rear XLR out of the estat amp to the XLR in of a regular headphone amp in order to control the volume of the headphone amp with a remote.  Is this just crazy or would it work?  Thanks.


I mean to say control the volume of the estat amp with the remote of the headphone amp.


----------



## bearFNF (Feb 1, 2022)

BTD1 said:


> If this is a dumb question I apologize.  In anticipation of an estat amp purchase I'm wondering if you can run cables from the rear XLR out of the estat amp to the XLR in of a regular headphone amp in order to control the volume of the headphone amp with a remote.  Is this just crazy or would it work?  Thanks.


You can run the XLR out to another amp, it will depend on how the amp is designed whether there is volume/level control on the output.
I do this with my system starting at my YGGY going to my BHSE then going to a Cavalli LL2SS and then to a Cavalli LAu. However, these XLRs are just loop pass throughs, so no volume or line level control except by each of the amps in question. And before anyone chimes in from the peanut gallery, I tested this extensively when I set it up and cannot hear any discernable difference with this set-up versus going straight to each amp. YMMV


----------



## musicman59

My RSA A-10 Thunderbolt electrostatic amplifier has a preamp function so I am going from my Bricasti M1 XLR outputs to the A-10 then from the A-10 pre XLR outputs to the RAAL Requisite HSA-1b amplifier with it’s volume control to max (confirmed this with RAAL) in that way I am controlling the volume with the A-10 and adding some tube sweetness to the sound of the RAAL.


----------



## number1sixerfan

bearFNF said:


> And before anyone chimes in from the peanut gallery, I tested this extensively when I set it up and cannot hear any discernable difference with this set-up versus going straight to each amp. YMMV



I lol'd. I've had a somewhat similar setup at one point for comparison purposes, no discernible audio differences as well. 

---------

Good news, my BHSE is pretty much done and should be on it's way back to me soon. So it sounds like I'll have it, the mini T2 and big DIY T2 all to compare in the near future. I also do miss having it, definitely one of my all time favorite amps.


----------



## BTD1

Regarding your BHSE, is there a way to cover the tubes with some sort of enclosure or cover?  I listen at night and the light from the tubes would drive me crazy!


----------



## number1sixerfan

BTD1 said:


> Regarding your BHSE, is there a way to cover the tubes with some sort of enclosure or cover?  I listen at night and the light from the tubes would drive me crazy!



That's the coolest part lol. But not that I'm aware of. I'll let others chime in, I would think there has to be some sort of aftermarket part you could try and use.


----------



## bearFNF (Feb 2, 2022)

BTD1 said:


> Regarding your BHSE, is there a way to cover the tubes with some sort of enclosure or cover?  I listen at night and the light from the tubes would drive me crazy!


Like @number1sixerfan said, the tube glow is part of the experience, IMO. But that being said if you think the tube glow is going to bother you, then the LEDs are really going to bug you, too. This isn't the bet picture, but it shows you the relative brightness... LOL




Here it is with the LEDs blocked (again not the best picture):




I will see if I can get better ones, tomorrow.


----------



## BTD1

Thanks for the great pics.  Those LEDs are really bright!   Headamp says they are working on a cover for the tubes.


----------



## musicman59

I have the same problems with bright LEDs in some other pieces. I found some translucent stickers on Amazon that their function is to dim down lights from LEDs. I use them and work great. They just dim them down without affecting anything else.
You can hardly see them on the piece.


----------



## bearFNF (Feb 4, 2022)

BTD1 said:


> Thanks for the great pics.  Those LEDs are really bright!   Headamp says they are working on a cover for the tubes.


Here's a better picture:



This is with the lights in the room off and no flash but still daylight outside so some background light.
I will try again after dark with no lights. might fire up the Taboo MKIII that is next to it and get a full shot of the whole set-up...

Here are two more after dark and most lights off in the house. Just a bunch of LEDs from various things.
first with flash so you know what you are looking at:



Then without flash:




I know, more than you wanted to see, I was bored today waiting for parts for the snow blower... 

Edit: Forgot to mention that the first pictures were with the stock tubes, the pictures in this post are with the Shuguang Treasures in the BHSE.


----------



## protoss (Feb 5, 2022)

After doing extensive listening to the 009 and 009S, while waiting for the X9000 to be released without any delays.

I now perfer the original 009 over the 009S. It just sounds better in many ways. From sparkle to extension and soundstage.

Speaking on those lights. I prefer my CCS Modded 006ts amp over the bhse. Mic drop 🎤  and the lights are blocked away. 😀
Actually, I prefer all the modded stax amps over the bshe and carbon.
🔫







On my other side of the room is my 100% STAX sound. Without any 3rd party BS 
I wonder who the true STAX mafia is 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-Ω-sr-omega-the-legendary-omega.847079/





@Menkau-ra 
*if people wondering, the 007MK1 is connected to a modded 313. The legendary sounding 313. And the 313 is connected by the stax rca cable (of course) into the Legendary Stax CDP player called Quattro II. Delivering a exotic euphoric sound. 

Old STAX had that warm sound. Modern-day STAX has that bright sound.


----------



## Menkau-ra

protoss said:


> On my other side of the room is my 100% STAX sound. Without any 3rd party BS
> I wonder who the true STAX mafia is
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-Ω-sr-omega-the-legendary-omega.847079/


Are those 007 plugged into 313?


----------



## Chefguru (Feb 5, 2022)

protoss said:


> After doing extensive listening to the 009 and 009S, while waiting for the X9000 to be released without any delays.
> 
> I now perfer the original 009 over the 009S. It just sounds better in many ways. From sparkle to extension and soundstage.
> 
> ...



Interesting. I've found the Sr009S model to have a better overall EQ, with less treble peak. The Sr009 OG is too hot for my taste and the Sr007 is too warm.
Here's to hoping the Sr-X is a favorable middle point


----------



## Menkau-ra

protoss said:


> USER=270586]@Menkau-ra[/USER]
> *if people wondering, the 007MK1 is connected to a modded 313. The legendary sounding 313. And the 313 is connected by the stax rca cable (of course) into the Legendary Stax CDP player called Quattro II. Delivering a exotic euphoric sound.
> 
> Old STAX had that warm sound. Modern-day STAX has that bright sound.


Does the modded 313 have more power? That's a very inexpensive solution.


----------



## lsantista

Hey protoss, what are the green stickers on the volume knobs for? was trying to figure at what volume position you were listening at


----------



## protoss

@Menkau-ra 
Yes, a modded 313 has alot more power and Synergy. Its a lovely combo. No distortion or clipping. The highest I can go with the 313 is about a 5 on the volume knob.

The 313, 717 and 727ii modded has some of the best sound for stax headphones. I perfer all Stax amps (modded) over any 3rd party amps. Im thinking of getting the T8000 or SRM-700S and modding those. I  guarantee it will be way better than carbon and bhse. The earlier models are already better. 

@lsantista

https://www.amazon.com/Sticky-Inche...?keywords=post+it+notes&qid=1644091289&sr=8-1

Most to all amplifers have trashy volume indicators. Just horrible. Its like these companies think we can see their tiny little marking for volume control. The highest volume is usually a 5.

I got the idea from Z review actually. To cut a post note and stick it on.


----------



## KDS315

How do you do modding of the mentioned amps?


----------



## protoss (Feb 6, 2022)

By following this revolutionary schematic diagram. It's helpful.


----------



## Menkau-ra

protoss said:


> @Menkau-ra
> Yes, a modded 313 has alot more power and Synergy. Its a lovely combo. No distortion or clipping. The highest I can go with the 313 is about a 5 on the volume knob.
> 
> The 313, 717 and 727ii modded has some of the best sound for stax headphones. I perfer all Stax amps (modded) over any 3rd party amps. Im thinking of getting the T8000 or SRM-700S and modding those. I  guarantee it will be way better than carbon and bhse. The earlier models are already better.


Where can I find more information about the mods? And who can do it?


----------



## protoss

The mods are well known.

The legendary STAX T1 from 1987 layouts have been studied and mastered. Most Stax amps uses the same circuit design concept as the 1987 T1. Even the *Stax SRM-700T *(2020) amps are using the T1 designs 

Check around and ask around. You will find them. CCS mods, Gain mods, feedback loops and all the jazz. My 313 have upgraded caps and expensive RCA plugs and silver wiring done. 

Hints: DIY sections, here, like everyone lol. Justin from headamps, the legendary spritzer has all the amps I mention. like literally.  So many people can help you. You need to find them. They are like waldo's thou


----------



## protoss

While you look around you can look at this  And laugh at all these 2022 headphones up to the year 3000.


----------



## KDS315

Thank you for nothing, not helpful at all


----------



## Chefguru

protoss said:


> While you look around you can look at this  And laugh at all these 2022 headphones up to the year 3000.



It's funny, I've been a member here since 2003 and I could argue that the same 5 headphones are possibly still the same top 5:
1) He90
2) Sr-omega
3) Sr-007mk1
4) R10
5) Hp-1000


----------



## protoss (Feb 7, 2022)

Chefguru said:


> It's funny, I've been a member here since 2003 and I could argue that the same 5 headphones are possibly still the same top 5:
> 1) He90
> 2) Sr-omega
> 3) Sr-007mk1
> ...


Heck yeah. These 5 plus a few more are still and will be until the year 3000 be the greatest headphones that humans created. Hands down!

Praise to the mighty HP1000!
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/grado-hp1000-the-legendary-grado.844712/
(Just realized I need to update  that thread 😆 🤣  )

My ultimate list:

1. HE90
2. R10 bass light
3. R10 bass heavy
4. OMEGA
5. 007mk1
6. L3000
7. HP1000
8. STAX 404
9. Jade 1
10. HE60


----------



## Chefguru (Feb 7, 2022)

protoss said:


> Heck yeah. These 5 plus a few more are still and will be until the year 3000 be the greatest headphones that humans created. Hands down!
> 
> Praise to the mighty HP1000!
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/grado-hp1000-the-legendary-grado.844712/
> ...



Hp1000 > Sr009S   ... but I have my hopes set that the SR-X is finally above Sr007mk1.


----------



## number1sixerfan

It all obviously comes down to preference. But I would have a different order and slightly different opinion considering the new TOTL vs. the old. However, what I'm about to say has nothing to do with the HE90/R10/Omega--just didn't get a chance to get my hands on them (wish I did), but I've owned everything else and still own a few of the oldies. 

From a technical perspective, the TC/009 (yes I know, not *that* much newer than those mentioned)/Sr1a to my ears best just about all of the OG TOTLs. That includes the HP1000, K1000, L3000, HE60 and MK1. Greater soundstages, detail, imaging, bass, just about any category.. you name it. However, the area that the OGs do have as an upside is more of that euphoric magic, specifically in the vocals/midrange that quite a few newer TOTLs just struggle to get right--most of them just sound more natural in that regard. The L3000 is actually the only old TOTL that I've managed to continue to love/listen to at the same rate of the other, newer cans that I have. @protoss would know since I bugged him enough to snag his L3000 as a replacement for my broken pair just a few weeks ago lol 

How I'd rank those discussed above that I've heard, along with current TOTLs included: 

1. Hifiman Shangri-La Sr. (again, haven't heard the HE90, or even the newer HE-1) 
2. 009/L3000 (even despite the L3000's bit lower technical prowess, makes up for in vocals/midrange and PRAT)
3. Abyss AB-1266 TC/Susvara/Raal Sr1a (Sr1a is up there technically with anything that exists, would be tied at #1 if that's all one cares about. It's just a bit less cohesive + lack of bass. However, puts the K1000, it's predecessor to shame in direct comparison) 
4. Grado HP1000
5. 007 MK1/HE60 (still two really amazing headphones, but imo they just cannot keep up with the newer technology/TOTLs. Still VV enjoyable) 

Just my perspective from my experiences and listening preferences.


----------



## protoss

number1sixerfan said:


> euphoric magic


Yes, this is personally what I desire and seek.

I call that the *Holy Grail* of "sound."


----------



## Ciggavelli

For me, the holy grail would be TC bass mixed with SR1a imaging, resolution and sound stage.  However, some think it’s not possible. We shall see.  I hope to at least try the Shangri-la in the future. I’m curious as to where it stacks.


----------



## number1sixerfan

protoss said:


> Yes, this is personally what I desire and seek.
> 
> I call that the *Holy Grail* of "sound."



I totally can understand that. I prefer more of a balance between that and the technicalities, but definitely get why that would be the absolute holy grail for others. 

And again, if you ever want to get rid of the R10 so I can better understand, please let me know lol


----------



## number1sixerfan

Ciggavelli said:


> For me, the holy grail would be TC bass mixed with SR1a imaging, resolution and sound stage.  However, some think it’s not possible. We shall see.  I hope to at least try the Shangri-la in the future. I’m curious as to where it stacks.



Yea... it's impossible lol. You can have one or the other. The TC is the closest it gets to nearly best in class imaging, resolution and soundstage while still having anywhere close to that level of bass. If the midrange didn't have recession issues it would be in my top 1-2 ever. Hopefully a newer version or offering corrects for it. 

Have you heard the MK1 though? I would think it would be perfect for your preferences. You should check it out if you haven't.


----------



## Ciggavelli

number1sixerfan said:


> Yea... it's impossible lol. You can have one or the other. The TC is the closest it gets to nearly best in class imaging, resolution and soundstage while still having anywhere close to that level of bass. If the midrange didn't have recession issues it would be in my top 1-2 ever. Hopefully a newer version or offering corrects for it.
> 
> Have you heard the MK1 though? I would think it would be perfect for your preferences. You should check it out if you haven't.


I’ve actually been thinking of buying the Mk1. I’ll give it some more thought


----------



## monsterxman

monsterxman said:


> Have had chance to compare Lambda NB with 404 signatures and they both have their merits.  404 are probably technically better in most / all? respects - bass, detail retrieval, brighter, cleaner sounding, and more dynamic.
> 
> The NB are less fatiguing and I now know why so many love them.  There’s a bit of subdued magic in how they sound.  Hard to really put to words.  For me they are set, forget and just get lost in your music.  They do enough of the good things you expect of an electrostat while being so easy on the ears.  Thanks to those who replied to me earlier.
> 
> With that said, If anyone has a pair of low bias Sigma’s they want to unload, please drop me a note.  My setup is optimized for low bias and those might be my end game.


I now have NB Sigmas in my possession... hmmm, initial thoughts - interesting, projects sound in a different way, harder to drive and less dynamic treble, more subdued overall w/good mid bass.  Maybe the least fatiguing Stax I’ve heard.  As different sounding to the Lambdas as the Lambdas are to the 404.


----------



## tjlindle

monsterxman said:


> I now have NB Sigmas in my possession... hmmm, initial thoughts - interesting, projects sound in a different way, harder to drive and less dynamic treble, more subdued overall w/good mid bass.  Maybe the least fatiguing Stax I’ve heard.  As different sounding to the Lambdas as the Lambdas are to the 404.


To me the best part of the NB Lambda is how it presents vocals, it has probably the most natural and engaging reproduction of voices I've heard in any headphone - how would you say the NB Sigma compares to the Lambda in this regard?

I am hunting for a NB Sigma too, I am hoping the additional soundstage and mid-bass presence will make it an ideal candidate for classic rock/heavy metal.

Almost all of the Lambdas I find a little too lean for heavily guitar-driven rock, right now I'm actually using the Kaldas RR1 for this purpose because it gives everything from mids downward a really thick body, imo it is really similar to the 007 in this regard (I have not owned the 007 but I've auditioned it).

But I am wondering if the NB Sigma can accomplish largely the same thing, from what I've read it has that similar thick sound with more presence in lower mids and less fatiguing treble.

Also, I have not heard the 404 Sig but I used to have the 404LE, I agree that in technicalities it outclasses the NB Lambda in virtually every way, however the NB Lambda does have those magic mids that the 404 can't quite match.


----------



## timb5881

tjlindle said:


> To me the best part of the NB Lambda is how it presents vocals, it has probably the most natural and engaging reproduction of voices I've heard in any headphone - how would you say the NB Sigma compares to the Lambda in this regard?
> 
> I am hunting for a NB Sigma too, I am hoping the additional soundstage and mid-bass presence will make it an ideal candidate for classic rock/heavy metal.
> 
> ...


I have a Stax Sigma Pro and I like how it sounds.  They do sound different than my Stax 404,


----------



## Menkau-ra

Will SR-007 work properly on SRD-7 powered with a speaker amp?


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Depends on desired volume, content, mods and EQ. With blutack, bass shelf and dynamic music at high SPL (~90db), I barely found the carbon to work well with sr007.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Or should I purchase 717 to power SR-007?


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Give it a try. srd7 isn't too expensive and you can sell it quite well. What are you using right now?


----------



## timb5881

I use an SRD-7 Pro, most of my amps work great with it.  You need enough power to drive your ear speakers, usually about 15 watts minimum.


----------



## Menkau-ra

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Give it a try. srd7 isn't too expensive and you can sell it quite well. What are you using right now?


I don't have SR-007 yet, just thinking to buy one. Right now I have SRS-3100.


----------



## monsterxman

tjlindle said:


> To me the best part of the NB Lambda is how it presents vocals, it has probably the most natural and engaging reproduction of voices I've heard in any headphone - how would you say the NB Sigma compares to the Lambda in this regard?
> 
> I am hunting for a NB Sigma too, I am hoping the additional soundstage and mid-bass presence will make it an ideal candidate for classic rock/heavy metal.
> 
> ...



I didn’t want to reply without more extended listening which I did some back and forth today - I think what you say below nails my thoughts + you know what you are looking for and it does exactly what you want...

“I am hunting for a NB Sigma too, I am hoping the additional soundstage and mid-bass presence will make it an ideal candidate for classic rock/heavy metal.”

There is more soundstage, separation between channels and the biggest thing is how the speakers are pointed towards your ears... it’s like sitting in front of the band vs the band being in your head like most headphones including the Lambdas.  

The sound is akin to listening to tower speakers vs headphones... so yeah they are special like everyone says.

Are they worth 2-4x Lambdas... hmm, maybe not but not sure where else you can get this sort of presentation.

Good luck... post when you have the Sigmas...


----------



## bearFNF (Feb 10, 2022)

Menkau-ra said:


> Will SR-007 work properly on SRD-7 powered with a speaker amp?


Just make sure it is an SRD-7 pro, not the NB (normal bias) version... and like others said it is worth a listen.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

bearFNF said:


> Just make sure it is an SRD-7 pro, not he NB version... and like others said it is worth a listen.


You mean the SB version. 



Menkau-ra said:


> I don't have SR-007 yet, just thinking to buy one. Right now I have SRS-3100.


Depends on your desired volume completely. I know people that listen in the range of 65-70dB without EQ. In that case it will work. Just give it a try, distortion due to lack of power is easily noticeable on sr007.


----------



## padam

For the SR-007 Mk1, I recommend a dedicated amp. The modded 727 is probably the best for the money (slightly more control and precision over the 717), just don't expect it to have full control over it when it costs like 4 times less than a Carbon.

One of the best things about this headphone is the spatial rendering and 3D imaging, which in my experience does take a noticeable hit when driven by an adapter.
Of course, this may improve with a really good speaker amp and a custom transformer, but that money can buy you a KGSSHV Carbon which is probably the amplifier you would want to drive this power hog.


----------



## bearFNF (Feb 10, 2022)

DuncanDirkDick said:


> You mean the SB version.
> 
> 
> Depends on your desired volume completely. I know people that listen in the range of 65-70dB without EQ. In that case it will work. Just give it a try, distortion due to lack of power is easily noticeable on sr007.


I meant "NB" for "normal bias" versus a Pro bias, but I guess the normal bias unit itself is an SRD-7/SB model number vs an SRD-7 Pro.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

bearFNF said:


> I meant "NB" for "normal bias" versus a Pro bias, but I guess the normal bias unit itself is an SRD-7/SB model number vs an SRD-7 Pro.


Okay, usually you want to avoid the self bias version


----------



## bearFNF

DuncanDirkDick said:


> Okay, usually you want to avoid the self bias version


Can you explain why to avoid the self bias version? I have had mine since the '80s and used it with no issues.
Just wondering where this comes from? Is it a sonic or functional reason?


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

bearFNF said:


> Can you explain why to avoid the self bias version? I have had mine since the '80s and used it with no issues.
> Just wondering where this comes from? Is it a sonic or functional reason?


My answer was in regard to the sr007 and pro bias mods.


----------



## Menkau-ra

padam said:


> For the SR-007 Mk1, I recommend a dedicated amp. The modded 727 is probably the best for the money (slightly more control and precision over the 717), just don't expect it to have full control over it when it costs like 4 times less than a Carbon.
> 
> One of the best things about this headphone is the spatial rendering and 3D imaging, which in my experience does take a noticeable hit when driven by an adapter.
> Of course, this may improve with a really good speaker amp and a custom transformer, but that money can buy you a KGSSHV Carbon which is probably the amplifier you would want to drive this power hog.


Is 727 a tube version of 717? Is the bass still ok on 717?


----------



## padam

Menkau-ra said:


> Is 727 a tube version of 717? Is the bass still ok on 717?


Both solid state, there might only be a slight difference in price. There is a slight difference with the CCS (constant current source) but the truth is, it is going to be some ways behind an aftermarket amp, which is what you want, if you are 'committed' to an SR007. As you move down in power, the sound gets warmer and warmer with more looseness, less impact in the bass, the dynamics become more compressed and the sound becomes a bit softer.
Arguably still enjoyable for what it is, just a (significantly) lesser version.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Menkau-ra said:


> Is 727 a tube version of 717? Is the bass still ok on 717?


Both are SS. The 717 is considered the superior model by the stax community. 727 can be converted to 717 quite easily and should be cheaper. The effort you have to put into a sr007 setup for high spl and eq (which is necessary IMO) is huge. I tried a lot of stax amps and the best brand one should be 353 value wise. If that isn't enough, don't bother with the rest of the stax amp lineup. 
The conclusion for me was that sr007 isn't really suited for loud listening, that's why I ended up selling it along with my carbon.


----------



## BenF

protoss said:


> After doing extensive listening to the 009 and 009S, while waiting for the X9000 to be released without any delays.
> 
> I now perfer the original 009 over the 009S. It just sounds better in many ways. From sparkle to extension and soundstage.
> ...



Me too  
009 has better timbre in female vocal, at least with Blue Hawaii.


----------



## buzzlulu

Have we ever figured out with certainty if the 009 BK is the exact same as the 009? Stax maintains they are identical - some users claim they are different


----------



## BTD1

I'm looking for the wisdom of the folks here who have tried this.  Can I use the XLR output from ONE DAC, use an XLR Y splitter and connect up two different amps, I am looking to connect a Carbon and a non estat amp to the same DAC, but I would not use them at the same time.  Does having them connected this way, even if one isn't powered on, cause a problem.  I can't seem to find a definitive answer.  Thanks!


----------



## KDS315 (Feb 10, 2022)

Works very well, my setup is like this! Works well if the output impedance of your DAC is low and the input impedance of your amps is high. Some amps even have XLR-loop through connectors. My SIRIUS V9 has that…


----------



## BassicScience

BTD1 said:


> I'm looking for the wisdom of the folks here who have tried this.  Can I use the XLR output from ONE DAC, use an XLR Y splitter and connect up two different amps, I am looking to connect a Carbon and a non estat amp to the same DAC, but I would not use them at the same time.  Does having them connected this way, even if one isn't powered on, cause a problem.  I can't seem to find a definitive answer.  Thanks!


As stated above, you won't have an issue with such a configuration regardless of whether either amp is on or off. You're nominally halving the load impedance the DAC's output sees, but that should be irrelevant unless the DAC itself has an abnormally high output impedance, which _might _be the case with some DACs having a tube output buffer, but almost certainly not otherwise.


----------



## BTD1

BassicScience said:


> As stated above, you won't have an issue with such a configuration regardless of whether either amp is on or off. You're nominally halving the load impedance the DAC's output sees, but that should be irrelevant unless the DAC itself has an abnormally high output impedance, which _might _be the case with some DACs having a tube output buffer, but almost certainly not otherwise.


Thanks for your answer.  I assume then that if, instead, you daisy chained from DAC=>Amp in (amp 1) then from  Amp1 out (from Amp 1) to Amp in (Amp 2) this type of connection would also work with as well?  In other words, is this connection the same as using a splitter off the DAC?  This is new to me, please excuse my ignorance!


----------



## BassicScience

BTD1 said:


> Thanks for your answer.  I assume then that if, instead, you daisy chained from DAC=>Amp in (amp 1) then from  Amp1 out (from Amp 1) to Amp in (Amp 2) this type of connection would also work with as well?  In other words, is this connection the same as using a splitter off the DAC?  This is new to me, please excuse my ignorance!


I've never personally used an amp "pass-through" connection, but yes, it should be electrically the same as using the splitter.


----------



## Menkau-ra

DuncanDirkDick said:


> The conclusion for me was that sr007 isn't really suited for loud listening, that's why I ended up selling it along with my carbon.


What's wrong with 007 loud listening?


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Menkau-ra said:


> What's wrong with 007 loud listening?


First of all, I index really high for subass performance, not so much for upper bass, which means I want to eq it and need more amplification. I’m not talking about things being tighter, more pronounced and all those loose terms. I’m talking about easily audible distortion.  
Even with a carbon, it lacks dynamics compared to other alternatives at high spl. The carbon is huge and heavy, which isn’t optimal because I have it on my workbench, where space is limited. Third, the carbon is expensive. Even at 7000 for the combo I’ve found better alternatives. I liked the susvara better, which is cheaper and has a smaller footprint. Even more so he1000se. That’s just my opinion, YMMV.


----------



## eee1111 (Feb 11, 2022)

DuncanDirkDick said:


> First of all, I index really high for subass performance, not so much for upper bass, which means I want to eq it and need more amplification. I’m not talking about things being tighter, more pronounced and all those loose terms. I’m talking about easily audible distortion.
> Even with a carbon, it lacks dynamics compared to other alternatives at high spl. The carbon is huge and heavy, which isn’t optimal because I have it on my workbench, where space is limited. Third, the carbon is expensive. Even at 7000 for the combo I’ve found better alternatives. I liked the susvara better, which is cheaper and has a smaller footprint. Even more so he1000se. That’s just my opinion, YMMV.


I just think it’s funny that headphones are not judged by their complete package.

I have a wide range of music I listen to and I just bounce around. Qualities like attack and decay and treble are very important also. A headphones speed is another. I’m just under the impression from most head fi posters who talk about sub bass like it’s all that matters they should get EQ and Pump up that bass shelf and go to town.
 Susvara takes EQ well. I hear LCD5 takes EQ well.

The perfect headphone doesn’t exist. Everything is missing something


----------



## padam

eee1111 said:


> I just think it’s funny that headphones are not judged by their complete package.
> 
> I have a wide range of music I listen to and I just bounce around. Qualities like attack and decay and treble are very important also. A headphones speed is another. I’m just under the impression from most head fi posters who talk about sub bass like it’s all that matters they should get EQ and Pump up that bass shelf and go to town.
> Susvara takes EQ well. I hear LCD5 takes EQ well.
> ...


It is all down to the nature of that particular person, how he or she evaluates things.

There are headphones, which do great many things (measure the best, etc.), yet they have certain traits or characteristics, that are simply deal killers for certain users (including myself), and that's fine. It is also easy to dismiss something (or skipping something due to other people's opinions), then realise much later: "Well, on the global scale of things, that other new thing also has just as many flaws, if not more." Done this a few times (regretfully, obviously).

In any case, I wouldn't mind knowing which tracks are good to test this distortion on the SR007, as I fail to hear or see this mentioned anywhere else.
I tend not to use any EQ, and I feel that the SR-007 Mk1 (at least the copy I have here with my own listening volume) already has slightly elevated bass, especially in relation to all my other headphones.
Many different things contributing to the general perception, every time I switch, I feel like I'm going through a bit of a re-calibration process.
It is the dynamics and slam where it is not particularly strong, especially when not driven well, and boosting it via EQ will not give it more impact, and amplification can only bring these up a certain level. On other tracks though, the overall presentation works very well, simply bringing in some "good old SR007 magic".

Sajid Amit's video about the SR007 Mk1 is a pretty good overview, I think.


----------



## hewlett168

How would the SRM-D50 compare to the SRM-353X? Same output voltage.


----------



## protoss

buzzlulu said:


> 009 BK


I believe its the pads. I found it had a bass boost.


----------



## joseph69 (Feb 14, 2022)

This is a cross post from the SR X9000 thread.

Great news for anyone going to CJNYC '22.
HiFiMAN will have the X9 driven by their 3ES so be sure to stop by and get a listen.
Apologies. I meant Woo Audio!


----------



## lostrockets

got around to trying some sr007 mkiis. they sound great but... 
1. the headband is a little tight at the top and looser at the bottom,​2. it also seems that the earcups are not round, rather sloped so that to conform to my head i have to invert them so cables are pointing up to get a full seal.​​is that normal?​


----------



## padam

You can rotate the earpads independently from the cable to fit your head and then you can bend the arc assembly to achieve the right angle and pressure with the earcups, etc. and then it will be more comfortable and sound better.
(Of course this may not be recommended to do if it is not your own pair.)


----------



## lostrockets

padam said:


> You can rotate the earpads independently from the cable to fit your head and then you can bend the arc assembly to achieve the right angle and pressure with the earcups, etc. and then it will be more comfortable and sound better.
> (Of course this may not be recommended to do if it is not your own pair.)


ah yes, youre correct! thank you!


----------



## Chefguru (Feb 16, 2022)

My new Mjolnir Carbon came today. I'm floored how much of a difference this has made vs the KGST, which is already a very capable amp. I expected it to be brighter than the KGST but I'm finding it actually smoother on the highs, in addition to having significantly better bass/soundstage. The SR009S is an excellent match. Better than my experience with the BHSE.
For anyone still on the fence, do it.
Side note... this thing runs HOT!


----------



## lostrockets (Feb 16, 2022)

What are some good songs to listen to on the sr007s to hear their best qualities and shortcomings?


----------



## padam

You have the typical sr007 presentation, handles speed with ease, precise instrument positioning, the bass rumbles, you hear the treble, and even though the vocal is pushed back, you can hear it clearly, contributing to a better sense of stage depth. So if you are listening to this in darkness, it does give the feeling of being at a live event. Because it still plays in an unoffensive style, you can blast this without feeling fatigued in any way. If you have a weak amp, this type of music will show it.

On the other hand, if you put on your best classical recordings, slow placed vocals, etc. some may feel a brighter, faster, more linear sound is preferable with more clarity, or the bass is still a bit uncontrolled and decreases the sense of clarity a bit etc.
https://www.headfonia.com/stax-omega2-mk2-review/3/
I also agree with this review that the soundstage presentation is not always realistic, but there are worse things.
https://www.headphoneer.com/stax-sr007mki-vs-stax-sr009/
You can also look at this overview about how it plays in relation to the 009 on some tracks. I generally prefer the 007 like Asr did in his review, but it's a bit more complicated, since the 009 may shine better in a different system.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mini-review-stax-sr-009.635893/


----------



## BTD1

Chefguru said:


> My new Mjolnir Carbon came today. I'm floored how much of a difference this has made vs the KGST, which is already a very capable amp. I expected it to be brighter than the KGST but I'm finding it actually smoother on the highs, in addition to having significantly better bass/soundstage. The SR009S is an excellent match. Better than my experience with the BHSE.
> For anyone still on the fence, do it.
> Side note... this thing runs HOT!


From order date to delivery, how many days did it take?  Was customs an issue?


----------



## Chefguru (Feb 16, 2022)

BTD1 said:


> From order date to delivery, how many days did it take?  Was customs an issue?



The Carbon was in stock (last one). Birgir shipped on the 8th and it arrived on the 14th. I’m in Los Angeles- so pretty good 👍🏻. I believe when I had my KGST ship from Mjolnir it was a few days longer because customs was examining it - but yeah - no issues either time.


----------



## BTD1

Chefguru said:


> The Carbon was in stock (last one). Birgir shipped on the 8th and it arrived on the 14th. I’m in Los Angeles- so pretty good 👍🏻. I believe when I had my KGST ship from Mjolnir it was a few days longer because customs was examining it - but yeah - no issues either time.


 That is really quick.  I ordered  a T+A HA200 from Germany and it took months!  My order for a Carbon CC was shipped from Mjolnir on the 11th.  If it comes as fast as yours did I should have it by the end of this week.  Birgir is great!


----------



## musicman59

Chefguru said:


> My new Mjolnir Carbon came today. I'm floored how much of a difference this has made vs the KGST, which is already a very capable amp. I expected it to be brighter than the KGST but I'm finding it actually smoother on the highs, in addition to having significantly better bass/soundstage. The SR009S is an excellent match. Better than my experience with the BHSE.
> For anyone still on the fence, do it.
> Side note... this thing runs HOT!


Here is why it is so smooth at the top….
“This is the first electrostatic amp in the world to use SiC FET output devices which are as close to triodes as transistors can get. “


----------



## Chefguru

musicman59 said:


> Here is why it is so smooth at the top….
> “This is the first electrostatic amp in the world to use SiC FET output devices which are as close to triodes as transistors can get. “


Yet, it was even smoother than actual triodes lol! This has really fixed a lot of my issues with the Sr-009S.


----------



## PointyFox

I just got a Mjolnir Carbon and compared it to my Mjolnir Octave V2 SE with the DCA Voce.

The Carbon sounds like if the KGSSHV was turned into a tube amp.
The sound is smoother, bass is more prominent, and the soundstage is bigger in all directions.

It throws a ton more heat though. Good for the winter. Not so much the summer.


----------



## Chefguru

PointyFox said:


> I just got a Mjolnir Carbon and compared it to my Mjolnir Octave V2 SE with the DCA Voce.
> 
> The Carbon sounds like if the KGSSHV was turned into a tube amp.
> The sound is smoother, bass is more prominent, and the soundstage is bigger in all directions.
> ...


I’ve been very surprised how smooth it is. Fantastic amp and I’m confident now at least for 007/009S I prefer it over the BHSE.
Photos on Mjolnir don’t do the finish justice. Slick style.


----------



## PointyFox (Feb 18, 2022)

Chefguru said:


> I’ve been very surprised how smooth it is. Fantastic amp and I’m confident now at least for 007/009S I prefer it over the BHSE.
> Photos on Mjolnir don’t do the finish justice. Slick style.



The KGSSHV amps used to look like that but he switched to an internal heatsink design for them and changed the case style.
The Carbon didn't change, probably because it generates more heat.

My first impression was smooth and big sound with more bass. All the texture is there, it just sounds like a tube amp.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Yup. They have a lovely, warm tonality, and a deep soundstage. I would prefer this to the BHSE myself.


----------



## PointyFox

I highly recommend the Voce as an alternative to the Stax 007/009. I haven't heard the 009S/X9000 yet. 
Replaceable cable, better cable ergonomics, replaceable headband, easily replaceable pads with aftermarket parts available, and excellent customer support from DCA.
The sound is very similar. Not quite as detailed as the 009, but more balanced/musical with nearly the same transparency and a deeper (front/back) soundstage. Bass is a little less in quantity than the 007, but extension is better.


----------



## Sajid Amit

Btw, I am going to sell my KGSSHV Carbon, if anyone is interested. Eyeing an upgrade.


----------



## PointyFox

What would be an upgrade? The CC version?


----------



## Sajid Amit

PointyFox said:


> What would be an upgrade? The CC version?


Yes. Either the CC (more likely) or may even spring for the T2. But most likely the CC.


----------



## nepherte

Sajid Amit said:


> Yes. Either the CC (more likely) or may even spring for the T2. But most likely the CC.


Both options are end game for me, together with BHSE. But if you can spring it, go for the T2 or you'll forever wonder 'what if'. I initially went for the BHSE a couple years ago, but I caved 🙈


----------



## PointyFox

Is the T2 really better? The design is 20+ years old.  The Carbon's design came out in the last 4 years or so.


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## Chefguru (Feb 18, 2022)

PointyFox said:


> Is the T2 really better? The design is 20+ years old.  The Carbon's design came out in the last 4 years or so.


The original T2 design was unstable, but the new DIY T2 that Kevin Gilmore designed fixes the issues with the T2. It is undoubtably the best of all the E-Stat amps. The Carbon, however, is the end-all solid state end of the line. Megatron is a click above the BHSE also, but not T2 tier either.


----------



## padam

I have seen those DIY T2 images, but I haven't paid attention to those prototype amps in the background, here it is:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/kerrys-got-a-new-co-eksonic.962153/


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## PointyFox

:9


----------



## dukeskd

Sexy!


----------



## Chefguru

DIY t2 by George P and another DIY Kerry made but in silver. Epic stuff.


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## LostHisMarbles (Feb 21, 2022)

Greetings everyone;

Was told someone here is looking for a pair of _normal bias Sigmas_, thought i'd register so as to offer mine.
Now i have all the red flags going for me what with a brand new account, so no pictures posted, no pricing, all that belongs in the buy/sell thread which i can't post in. But maybe we could split this into two parts; starting with the headphones, followed by the why?

+ Original first owner; am that old am afraid.
+ 'Bout 20, 30(?) hours playtime total. Crazy as that sounds given the current year (more on that in a bit). Exceptional condition.
+ Original box, inner packaging, instruction manual, the lot, all stock and in good condition. Not exceptional here, as outer box has a few black spots, the telltale signs paper gets when dragged in and out/in between other cardboard boxes? Still white though if that tells you something.
+ Stored in a smoking/odour-free, 24/7 humidity controlled room. My guitars are there, the rest of my electrostatics are in there.
- Re-foamed. Polymer-based flimsy stuff (it's not really foam, don't know why everyone calls it so), nothing will save it from time, not even a vaccuum as you may know. _However_; they were re-foamed by me (i do HiFi equipment repairs), at an environment conducive to working on/around Stax drivers and were re-foamed using a non-polymer based higher quality material.
Should all give you a preliminary idea.

But to the more important stuff.

I'm a hoarder. Very meticulous, very, very thorough and careful. I take care of all my things, even those i don't use or like, such as this pair of Sigmas; had to buy me a pair back then and did and while for classical music one admits to a certain number of qualities, i found they lacked sufficiently in others; their being so bulky also meant i coudln't have them 'out' all the time, two pairs of headphones right next to me was and remains a bit of a hyperbole for my liking. But, i'm a hoarder, i did have the space, so naturally i kept them through the years. Why not.
This potential sale begins with our recently having finished paying the loan for our old house -the value of which has skyrocketed through the decades- and consequently selling it for a profit, moving on to a better one. I finally have my manspace! Only it's not exactly cavernous..
A de-humidifier plus a humidifier, two racks for my HiFi gear, one PC and related paraphernalia, two chairs and one desk kinda fit the space real quick.. Stuff needs to go.
Can't move electrostats to the warehouse, because humidity's only controlled in my manspace, can't keep them, don't have (living) friends that would actually care to have them. Sure ain't throwing them away either.
I don't think i can send/receive PMs here, so i was thinking -presuming anyone cares to _verify_ all this rather than just ignore me- that you could mail me or i could mail you?

My proper email is real life name and surname, am thus wary of typing it here. But i used losthismarbles@mail.com to register here, so if willing, send there syaing only you're interested (you don't even have to give me a name, so safe), i'll reply and give you my real email, my real name and my cell phone; so you know, we can have a proper talk, by mail or phone, plus you get to see some pictures. You decide.
Thank you for reading and my apologies for an admittedly very dodgy first post.

I'm not going to pretend by posting 9 or 11 more inane postings only so i'm qualified to "sell". Too hypocritic for me.
Bless you all for your patience and again, sincere apologies. To all the regulars about to decry this, no offense taken, have at me ^^


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## Violine42 (Feb 22, 2022)

Sajid Amit said:


> Btw, I am going to sell my KGSSHV Carbon, if anyone is interested. Eyeing an upgrade.


Hi Sajid, I would not sell the Carbon and buy a CC.
My friend also owns a Carbon with a range of STAXes and as you called it "They have a lovely, warm tonality, and a deep soundstage."
Yes, indeed they have. Carbon is magnificent.

I had the chance to audition to my friend's 009 and 009s with the Carbon and I was fascinated. Especially if directly compared to the combo with some STAX amps that were much thinner, had less body, less aura.
I liked that Carbon combo so much that I'm now really jealous as I think it (unfortunately) outperforms my beloved (and well powered) Susvara. Susvara is really great (one of the best) but it does not quite reach the pinpoint accuracy and technical quality level of the Carbon/SR-009/009s combo.
If one very much likes the individual tonality characterisitcs of a Susvara, this can be adjusted with an EQ for the STAX as well, as my friend already tried out. But in general why? I did not miss my Susvara's tonal characteristics at all.

The Carbon is a magificent amp and I'm not sure if the CC will fulfill the high expectations. The output power and specs are exactly the same as I heard.
There are some more expensive cables and components in there and that's it.
If it does not change the sound signature it should be fine, of course.

But if it does, one cannot be sure that it makes the sound characteristics better for your taste.
One should carefully audition the CC versus Carbon before blindly buying.
Else it could be a disappointment.
I have gone through many experiences in the past, when I had to figure out that more new equiment, i.e. later release, so-called "upgrade" was worse, unfortunately, a step back.

Because Carbon is already spread among so many audiophiles worldwide and its high quality and extremely well fitting sound signature is widely anticipated and reported.
I did not yet hear much about the CC.
Is it better? Maybe. Is it worse? Maybe, too. Is it same? May also be.
Too little proof on the web, yet.
So, my take would be, not buying it before self comparing it to the classic legend "Carbon".

But regarding the DIY T2, yes, this might be a step up as also there so many people reported how excellent it is.
So, there I would guess that it could indeed outperform the classic legend "Carbon". And T2 is even much more a classic legend 
Regards, Andreas


----------



## tumpux

Aahh.. you dont get it, do you?
It falls under conspicuous consumption. No need to justify this is better than that. 

At this rate I am sure by mid 2022 SA will have BHSE, CCC, T2, Megatron, and two sets of electrostat cfa.


----------



## lostrockets (Feb 23, 2022)

In the market for a new headphone setup. Ive realized planars and dd headphones while good, arent the same as stax which is the sound i prefer. 

So decided to get an amp (on the way) and recently had a chance to try out both sr 007mk2 and l500mk2 with some rock, electronica, classical, blues and jazz

Overall l500mkii was much more forward, transparent and a little more shouty / in your face presentation .. maybe what people call brighter

The sr007mk2 much more well rounded with better bass and warmer / relaxed listening experience overall

With a budget of 2k for headphones torn if i should get 2 pairs : the l500 plus another vintage stax series or maybe nectar hive or just one pair with sr007. 

(The only thing is if i wanna listen with someone i wont have a spare set with the 007s)

Curious what led you to purchase your electrostatics and if you have any personal insight to share.


----------



## tumpux

007


----------



## protoss

@lostrockets 

try not to get the L500. no good. Get 404, LNS, and the older lambdas instead. 

Overall, try to aim for 007mk2 or 007A. The A is better. Dont know why but it sounds better to me. But the MK2 black looks nice.


----------



## bearFNF

lostrockets said:


> In the market for a new headphone setup. Ive realized planars and dd headphones while good, arent the same as stax which is the sound i prefer.
> 
> So decided to get an amp (on the way) and recently had a chance to try out both sr 007mk2 and l500mk2 with some rock, electronica, classical, blues and jazz
> 
> ...


It's been a while but AFAICR, I liked the warmth of the 007 vs the 500, did not care for the L700 either.
What amp do you have coming? This would also be an important data point for people to know for better feedback.


----------



## lostrockets (Feb 23, 2022)

bearFNF said:


> It's been a while but AFAICR, I liked the warmth of the 007 vs the 500, did not care for the L700 either.
> What amp do you have coming? This would also be an important data point for people to know for better feedback.



An antares from high-amp.de . From what I’ve researched its similar to a stax t1.  i know for some people its been said the 007s require high power amps to get the most out of the hard to drive omegas and thats fine. Maybe there is. but for my casual listening im not willing to drop over 2k just for a headphone amp with way more power than ill ever use. I guess im a bit stubborn there and tbh id rather just go see some live shows with the 2k saved instead!


----------



## protoss

lostrockets said:


> casual listening


Yes, the 007 on a T1 is just fine for casual listening. 
This conclude your questioning


----------



## PointyFox (Feb 24, 2022)

lostrockets said:


> In the market for a new headphone setup. Ive realized planars and dd headphones while good, arent the same as stax which is the sound i prefer.
> 
> So decided to get an amp (on the way) and recently had a chance to try out both sr 007mk2 and l500mk2 with some rock, electronica, classical, blues and jazz
> 
> ...



The L500mk2 will sound more transparent until you do Spritzer's bass port mod, then the 007 will sound more transparent.

I wouldn't get two headphones. Use the extra money for a better energizer because unlike every other type of headphone, electrostatic amps actually make a difference.

There is also the L700MK2.

Based on your preferences, I'd get a Nectar Hive and a really good energizer (like a Mjolnir Octave 2 SE or above), then upgrade the Hive later on.

As far as electrostats go, I've owned the Hive, L700, L700MK2, 007A, 007MK2, 009 (twice), and the Voce.
The 009 and Voce are my favorites.  Best value goes to the Hive, the L700MK2, or a used Voce.

For amps/energizers, I've owned the Koss E90/X, SRM-717, SRM-353X, Mjolnir Octave 2 SE, Mjolnir KGSSHV, Mjolnir Carbon, and the SRM-D50 (four of them).
Here are my impressions on comparisons I've made with the energizers:

Koss E90/X -> SRM-717 = I think I prefer the E90/X. Very similar though.
SRM-717 ->SRM-353X = About the same. Maybe the slightest bit more bass from the SRM-353X.
SRM-353X -> SRM-D50 = About the same. Maybe the slightest bit more bass from the SRM-D50.
SRM-353X -> Mjolnir Octave 2 SE = The Octave 2 SE is quite a bit better in terms bass and bass extension.
SRM-D50 -> Mjolnir KGSSHV = The KGSSHV is quite a bit better in terms bass and bass extension.
Mjolnir Octave 2 SE -> Mjolnir Carbon = The Carbon has a wider soundstage, smoother treble, more bass, and a more tube-like sound.


----------



## number1sixerfan

tumpux said:


> Aahh.. you dont get it, do you?
> It falls under conspicuous consumption. No need to justify this is better than that.
> 
> At this rate I am sure by mid 2022 SA will have BHSE, CCC, T2, Megatron, and two sets of electrostat cfa.



Definitely get this perspective, I do. But this is also a really exciting time for e-stats. For the first time in a LONG time, there are new and really exciting TOTL offerings.. some better than the 009/007 that have long been the standard. Unfortunately they are a bit more expensive (and some extremely hard to drive), and when you spend that type of $ on them I absolutely get spending the money to get the most out of them. 

I can't wait until the T2 gets here. I promise I will give a really honest idea of the difference I can hear vs. the BHSE. But I already can see a valuable and discernible difference between the mini T2 and the BHSE even though it's only a bit more expensive than it. That said the BHSE is still really amazing and I'm sure the same is true for the Carbon, which I hear nothing but praise for in similar fashion.


----------



## Benno1988

Thoughts on the 007 MK2 (2.9) off a iFi iESL as a first foray into Stax?

iESL can be driven off my desktop speaker amp. At the moment its a little Class D thing, 100W into 8 or so.


----------



## padam

Benno1988 said:


> Thoughts on the 007 MK2 (2.9) off a iFi iESL as a first foray into Stax?
> 
> iESL can be driven off my desktop speaker amp. At the moment its a little Class D thing, 100W into 8 or so.


Garbage in -> garbage out, KGSSHV is highly recommended for the 007.
I'd rather choose a Lambda with a cheaper amp (not the current ones, but that's an entirely different matter)


----------



## Benno1988

padam said:


> Garbage in -> garbage out, KGSSHV is highly recommended for the 007.
> I'd rather choose a Lambda with a cheaper amp (not the current ones, but that's an entirely different matter)


So informative.


----------



## tumpux

I won’t say that iesl is garbage, but I won’t recommend it either. 

Maybe it’s fine if your friend lend it to you while you’re saving for a carbon, but to buy one and knowing that one day you will replace it.. Just don’t.


----------



## padam

Benno1988 said:


> So informative.


All the information is there in the thread, the 007 is quite revealing and also quite difficult drive and can sound quite different to one amp to another, so I would only start with it if I knew I would be upgrading soon, or I would rather get a nice amp first and save up on headphones.
But some people think the SRM-252S is fine with the 007, so what do I know


----------



## Benno1988

tumpux said:


> I won’t say that iesl is garbage, but I won’t recommend it either.
> 
> Maybe it’s fine if your friend lend it to you while you’re saving for a carbon, but to buy one and knowing that one day you will replace it.. Just don’t.


I've read people getting some good results off it. Especially when driven by a speaker amplifier, not paired with the iCan for example.

All the Mjolnir gear is raved about, but so very expensive to get here in Australia. No used market of them at all either. And looks like not very desktop friendly, so would need to figure that aspect in.


----------



## tumpux

I agree. Sometimes we tend to see everything from our own point of view. 
I am sure that iesl serves its own target market.


----------



## robo24

Benno1988 said:


> Thoughts on the 007 MK2 (2.9) off a iFi iESL as a first foray into Stax?
> 
> iESL can be driven off my desktop speaker amp. At the moment its a little Class D thing, 100W into 8 or so.


I’ve not tried that, but run my iESL off the Chord TT2 and enjoyed it with my 007 MK2.9. However I’ve not heard more expensive energizers but it was certainly better than a Stax 323A I had (which itself was fine).


----------



## tumpux

I’ve learned long ago that I can find any kind of confirmation that I need from internet forums. 
The answers that I receive will range from “it’s great”, “it’s all I need”, “best bang for the buck”, to “stay away from it”. Which, of course, reflects more on the responder’s perspective. Which not necessarily fits my perspective. 

Try first if you can and always enjoy the process.


----------



## Benno1988

tumpux said:


> I’ve learned long ago that I can find any kind of confirmation that I need from internet forums.
> The answers that I receive will range from “it’s great”, “it’s all I need”, “best bang for the buck”, to “stay away from it”. Which, of course, reflects more on the responder’s perspective. Which not necessarily fits my perspective.
> 
> Try first if you can and always enjoy the process.


Especially on certain forums!


----------



## DougD

tumpux said:


> I agree. Sometimes we tend to see everything from our own point of view.
> I am sure that iesl serves its own target market.


I say this as a question from a person with a long-time interest in the iESL, not as a skeptic:

What is the target market?

For sure it includes people with an interest in e-stats, who already have a high-quality amp, and would like to not have to also buy an uber-expensive e-stats amp.

But does it include people wanting to hear e-stat headphones at the very top of their potential? That's not clear, to me, from the user reviews I have read.


----------



## robo24

DougD said:


> I say this as a question from a person with a long-time interest in the iESL, not as a skeptic:
> 
> What is the target market?
> 
> ...


They don't actually make or sell it anymore. If felt to me like they were targeting those who would buy the iDSD and/or Pro iCan. I bought it since I had an iCan, but it's a horrible pairing in that any attempt to get the headphones up to decent volume it distorts terribly, though I've seen other comments from owners who didn't have that problem. It was far worse than the Stax 323A that I replaced it with. It wasn't until I fed mine with the more powerful amp of the TT2 via balanced that it became better.


----------



## Benno1988

I have a 100w into 8 and plan to go a bit bigger too, so I do wonder how it'll fair. Can always sell it on.


----------



## pataburd

My newly acquired SR-007 Mk.1 (earliest version) sounds quite good driven by the bel canto e.One c5i (60wpc/8ohms, Class D) via a Mjolnir SRD-7 eStat Transformer.
Later plan to try the Dussun T6 (100wpc/8ohms, Class A), which I preferred with the SR-L500 Mk.2.
Just ordered the Mjolnir KGSSHV, so I should be able to do some comparisons in a week or so, Deo volente.


----------



## tumpux

DougD said:


> I say this as a question from a person with a long-time interest in the iESL, not as a skeptic:
> 
> What is the target market?
> 
> ...



I believe the third paragraph covers most of the design brief of the iesl. 

I also would add that it would include people who are not quite exposed to the better amplifiers, because let’s face it unless we have a friend who has both, let’s say, carbon and iesl there is no way for us to do a direct comparison. And from my experience the chance of finding that certain friend who swims on both pools is about the same as finding a unicorn riding police officer. 

Whether the iesl could deliver the best of headphone’s potential or not, it would heavily depend upon the listener’s expectations. As long as he’s not exposed to something that he’s perceived to be better then he’s safe. It’s a very subjective and best to be handled by having a friend who has all the toys, so he can try and decides for himself.


----------



## padam

In that case, why not just save more to get an SRD-7 Pro for 200$ and call it a day on that front, or pay more for a Mjolnir modified one that has the better wiring and bias supply? The speaker amp used will make much more of a difference than the transformer itself.


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## tumpux (Feb 28, 2022)

Maybe they are already familiar with ifi brand and found that hey they’re making something that I need
Or they are not comfortable hunting for an energizer made in the past century
Or they are not comfortable buying a modified energizer from a tabletop operation in snowland


----------



## pataburd

tumpux said:


> Or they are not comfortable buying a modified energizer from a tabletop operation in snowland


Have you owned/used Mjolnir equipment?


----------



## tumpux

Yes. I admire the amplifier designs from that circle. 
I wish everyone could try one and have one at home. 
They are great amplifiers, however it only serves a very niche of a niche market.


----------



## timb5881

padam said:


> In that case, why not just save more to get an SRD-7 Pro for 200$ and call it a day on that front, or pay more for a Mjolnir modified one that has the better wiring and bias supply? The speaker amp used will make much more of a difference than the transformer itself.


Sorry to say but the SRD-7 Pro usually go for well over $300 if you can find one.


----------



## pataburd

The SR-007 Mk.1 sounds the best so far with the Dussun T6 (100wpc/8ohms, Class A, volume at 3/10) + Mjolnir SRD-7.  Overall body and weight are exceptional.
Honestly, I didn't think eStats had this kind of capability.


----------



## Fidelity King

Has anyone tried the Stat amp from Bottlehead? It's been out since late 2020 but there are no reviews on it and hardly any info on it. I'd like to hear some impressions and how it drives any of the lambda series earspeakers.


----------



## Swann36

Petergrifindor said:


> Hi everyone, newcomer to the forum and the hobby.
> 
> After a lifetime of playing and collecting music, but without putting money on Hifi equipment,  I decided to get myself a high-end headphone set.
> 
> ...


Welcome aboard, i had a similar relevation when i first heard Stax Earspeakers and after a while i took the plunge and got the L300LE with 353XBK and haven't looked back for serious listening


----------



## Swann36

tjlindle said:


> Completely unrelated question to the ones above: does anyone have any experience with the SR-X mk3 Pro - either the real one or the DIY version - and what its power requirements are?
> 
> Put another way, can the stuff that competently drives Lambdas (SRM-1mk2, T1, 323/353) also drive the SR-X mk 3 Pro, or does it need something more powerful to really shine?


I have the 353 and a pair of SR-X Mk3s Mjolnir modded to PB and they are driven well, i did ask him about the amp and he was gracious to say it would do a good job and it does, although of course one of his amps a Carbon perhaps would let me really hear how good they were, for now i'm more than happy with them. 

I can't tell you about other amps as i have only the one estat amp


----------



## pataburd

Mjolnir KGSSHV en route from Iceland as we speak . . . 
: )


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## pataburd (Mar 3, 2022)

Anyone tried the L700 pads on the L500 and care to comment (or direct me to a pertinent post)?
Thank you.

Anyone tried the SoCas padmod, padmod spacer or canmod for the Lamdas and care to comment (or direct me to a pertinent post)?
Thank you.

https://www.socas3d.com/headphonemods/canmod-l300-l500-l700?category=STAX SR-L300/L500/L700

Update: Found negative response to PadMod on page 112.  What about PadMod Spacer?


----------



## pataburd (Mar 3, 2022)

Am really enjoying the SR-L500 Mk.2 (with Low Shelf PEQ), combined with the Mjolnir SRD-7<--Dussun T6<--Topping D50s:


----------



## Jingle525

Fidelity King said:


> Has anyone tried the Stat amp from Bottlehead? It's been out since late 2020 but there are no reviews on it and hardly any info on it. I'd like to hear some impressions and how it drives any of the lambda series earspeakers.


Wow, haven't heard about it before. Now, I.m looking into it. Looks like a cool amp. Thx for sharing


----------



## theweezle

Hey guys... I have a small problem... again.... 
I originally upgraded from my 207 to L700mk1 because my yokes broke. 
well now my L700 Yokes are breaking(somehow just cracked and popping out, but could fully separate any day now). 
I wanted to know if I buy This Arc Assy from stax. Would it fit properly in the L700Mk1? 
Or am I better off just getting Freedom Yokes? 

Any other options are also appreciated.


----------



## catscratch (Mar 4, 2022)

The Mk2 headband should fit, yes. However it will change the sound and make it closer to the Mk2. I would get the freedom yokes instead since you mentioned them, they will retain a sound that's closer to the Mk1. The only real downside to them is the increased clamping force. You will also need a Torx 6 screwdriver to install them, otherwise it's a simple swap and cheaper than the OEM headband.


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## theweezle

Those are what I was referring to when I mentioned freedom yokes. I will probably get the yokes.. try them out... if I dont like them, I will get the whole arc assy and put the yokes on my broken 207s....
I assume they also work with 207s... right? not just the L700 series....


----------



## Menkau-ra

pataburd said:


> Anyone tried the L700 pads on the L500 and care to comment (or direct me to a pertinent post)?
> Thank you.


L700 pads have very little difference vs L500 pads. I couldn't hear it. It's better comfort.


----------



## Fidelity King

pataburd said:


> Am really enjoying the SR-L500 Mk.2 (with Low Shelf PEQ), combined with the Mjolnir SRD-7<--Dussun T6<--Topping D50s:


How would you describe the L500 mk2?


----------



## bigjako

I use the Freedom Yokes on the Ark Assembly, which I've used for both the L300 and the L300 LE.  That doesn't specifically answer your question, but I thought it was relevant.  I will say the yokes on the Ark are just as garbage as the ones on the standard assembly.  They bend in one direction, but if it gets any cross-pressure while taking them off / on, both of them snapped on me and I couldn't be happier with the Freedom Yokes.  

While you're ordering it and paying the shipping, I'd suggest picking up the Padmod from them, if you want to test it out.  It can add a lot more bass and comfort.


----------



## pataburd (Mar 4, 2022)

Fidelity King said:


> How would you describe the L500 mk2?


Detailed, clear, quick/lively and balanced.


----------



## pataburd

Menkau-ra said:


> L700 pads have very little difference vs L500 pads. I couldn't hear it. It's better comfort.


Thank you.


----------



## Fidelity King

pataburd said:


> Detailed, clear, quick/lively and balanced.


have you experienced any issues with sibalence?


----------



## pataburd

Not with my current set-up.


----------



## SludgeSwan

Hi everyone, although my dad gave me his old SR-X Mk.III with the SRD-7 SB energizer many years ago, I still feel relatively new to the Stax party. So here is a question for you: I recently bought a Lambda Pro with SRD-1 Mk.II Pro, both of which spent most of the time since their purchase in 1994 unused in some cupboard. The Lambda Pro has a slight channel imbalance - the stereo center is somewhere between my nose and my right eye, more towards my nose actually, but definitely tilted to the right. If you imagine the volume knob of the amp being at 7 o'clock when it's completely turned down, I have to set the outer part of the knob that regulates the left channel to about the middle between 7 and 8 o'clock to center the sound.

I already tried the suggested procedures of slightly "slapping" the left earpiece with the flat hand, and plugging/unplugging the headphone with afterwards touching the plug (maybe 30-40 times so far), but without any effect - the channel imbalance remains.

Now I have the option of getting a new membrane for the left earpiece for 125 Euro (apparently an original Lambda Pro one, not one of the newer membranes, according to the guy who is offering the repair here in Germany) or just living with the channel imbalance and correcting it via the the amp. What would you do? Do you consider the channel imbalance serious enough to get it fixed? Is it likely to get worse over time? Thanks for your 2 cents on this!


----------



## padam

So far I have not experienced imbalance getting worse over time and it seems minor from your description. But you loose more value with that, than what it costs to have it fixed, and it is just more convenient not to deal with it and getting annoyed by it. So probably worth it. Funnily enough, my hearing is imbalanced to the left, so it could be the perfect Lambda Pro for me. And I said the Lambda Pro more resilient to aging, since haven't seen this occur so far but it might have been just luck it seems. I've experienced a lot more imbalance/squealing issues with the Lambda Signature, for instance.


----------



## Benno1988

SludgeSwan said:


> Hi everyone, although my dad gave me his old SR-X Mk.III with the SRD-7 SB energizer many years ago, I still feel relatively new to the Stax party. So here is a question for you: I recently bought a Lambda Pro with SRD-1 Mk.II Pro, both of which spent most of the time since their purchase in 1994 unused in some cupboard. The Lambda Pro has a slight channel imbalance - the stereo center is somewhere between my nose and my right eye, more towards my nose actually, but definitely tilted to the right. If you imagine the volume knob of the amp being at 7 o'clock when it's completely turned down, I have to set the outer part of the knob that regulates the left channel to about the middle between 7 and 8 o'clock to center the sound.
> 
> I already tried the suggested procedures of slightly "slapping" the left earpiece with the flat hand, and plugging/unplugging the headphone with afterwards touching the plug (maybe 30-40 times so far), but without any effect - the channel imbalance remains.
> 
> Now I have the option of getting a new membrane for the left earpiece for 125 Euro (apparently an original Lambda Pro one, not one of the newer membranes, according to the guy who is offering the repair here in Germany) or just living with the channel imbalance and correcting it via the the amp. What would you do? Do you consider the channel imbalance serious enough to get it fixed? Is it likely to get worse over time? Thanks for your 2 cents on this!


If you run any EQ software or can, you can recentre it easily enough on the software side


----------



## pataburd (Mar 6, 2022)

Stax made the the volume knob to enable independent L and R volume control to account for channel imbalance, which was a known/common issue with some earlier earspeakers, from what I understand.


----------



## ri_toast (Mar 7, 2022)

pataburd said:


> Stax made the the volume knob to enable independent L and R volume control to account for channel imbalance, which was a known/common issue with some earlier earspeakers, from what I understand.


There's also pots inside that can be adjusted. Suggest that to be done by a pro, multi-meter etc is required. I think Spritzer; maybe Kevin G had some instructions somewhere on the web; bias circuit.
I have the srm mk1 /pro, one thing I have noticed is that after being unplugged for days it seems to take the drivers some time (10 minutes) to become stable. Channel balance shifts back to correct. Until then I just adjust as I go. I leave them plugged in all the time, amp off. When I power them back on I found that the balance has stayed. It reminds me of tube amps becoming stable after a warm up. This is with the 407s and to some degree the original normal bias. I'm sure the mkIIIs are wonderful but not in the way a more modern Stax would sound. The Pro's are relatively modern and wonderful. I have some sr-5s and toss them on now and then... they still are magical.

I'd suggest using the balance control and just enjoy them. If it shifts constantly well, maybe that should be looked at.


----------



## SludgeSwan

Thanks for all your replies so far. I just phoned the man who would do the repair, and he said it might be that renewing the membrane on the left side might in the end result in an imbalance again, as then the right side might be quieter. No way to say before, so optimally both membranes would have to be renewed - which of course doubles the cost. At the moment, this seems a bit over the top to me, just to get rid of a relatively slight imbalance...

Any more tipps on how this could be resolved otherwise?


----------



## Benno1988

SludgeSwan said:


> Thanks for all your replies so far. I just phoned the man who would do the repair, and he said it might be that renewing the membrane on the left side might in the end result in an imbalance again, as then the right side might be quieter. No way to say before, so optimally both membranes would have to be renewed - which of course doubles the cost. At the moment, this seems a bit over the top to me, just to get rid of a relatively slight imbalance...
> 
> Any more tipps on how this could be resolved otherwise?


EQ. Just nudge until its centred, no other "eq-ing", just fix the balance.


----------



## bearFNF

SludgeSwan said:


> Thanks for all your replies so far. I just phoned the man who would do the repair, and he said it might be that renewing the membrane on the left side might in the end result in an imbalance again, as then the right side might be quieter. No way to say before, so optimally both membranes would have to be renewed - which of course doubles the cost. At the moment, this seems a bit over the top to me, just to get rid of a relatively slight imbalance...
> 
> Any more tipps on how this could be resolved otherwise?


LOL, I shipped my SR009 back to japan for service due to imbalance (what a big hassle that was), When they received them, there was no imbalance, so they just cleaned them and sent them back. When I got them, sure enough the imbalance was gone. So, apparently, sending your earspeakers for a vacation to Japan works to solve imbalance. Maybe the pressure change going up in an airplane? YMMV

I was going to trigger your OCD by mentioning the need to maybe change both membranes but you beat me to it.... 
But even then it is not guaranteed to "fix" the issue.


----------



## DougD

SludgeSwan said:


> Thanks for all your replies so far. I just phoned the man who would do the repair, and he said it might be that renewing the membrane on the left side might in the end result in an imbalance again, as then the right side might be quieter. No way to say before, so optimally both membranes would have to be renewed - which of course doubles the cost. At the moment, this seems a bit over the top to me, just to get rid of a relatively slight imbalance...
> 
> Any more tipps on how this could be resolved otherwise?



You said your amp has inner and outer volume rings, which is kinda unusual these days.

I don't know why that's not the answer. At least for now.


----------



## SludgeSwan

bearFNF said:


> LOL, I shipped my SR009 back to japan for service due to imbalance (what a big hassle that was), When they received them, there was no imbalance, so they just cleaned them and sent them back. When I got them, sure enough the imbalance was gone. So, apparently, sending your earspeakers for a vacation to Japan works to solve imbalance. *Maybe the pressure change going up in an airplane?* YMMV
> 
> I was going to trigger your OCD by mentioning the need to maybe change both membranes but you beat me to it....
> But even then it is not guaranteed to "fix" the issue.



You know what, I actually suspect that something like that may have caused the channel imbalance in my case as well! The seller swears that the headphones were working perfectly, and they have been professionally cleaned and got new earpads just last May. Either the pressure change or the headphones being packed in a plastic bag and some kind of charge that built up when it was moving around in the parcel...



DougD said:


> You said your amp has inner and outer volume rings, which is kinda unusual these days.
> 
> *I don't know why that's not the answer. At least for now.*



It is the answer, I'll just stop worrying about it now and enjoy the sound instead!


----------



## pataburd (Mar 8, 2022)

The Mjolnir KGSSHV arrived today!
Am doing the initial audition with the SR-L500 Mk.2.
Compared to the Mjolnir SRD-7 + power amp (Dussun T6), the sound with the KGSSHV is (i) more open/transparent, (ii) more expansive along all three axes, (iii) more detailed, (iv) livelier/quicker, (v) with improved imaging.  It is a touch brighter, though, but not in a bothersome/strident way.  It's like having my ears cleaned.
In short: "positively transformational" across the board.
Undoubtedly, the best "Stax" investment I have made so far.


----------



## pataburd

. . . have a grounding issue in my circuit . . . 
. . . about which I was forewarned . . .


----------



## KDS315

Congrats! You got some humming noise based on a ground / earth loop?


----------



## lsantista

I experienced some crazy humming noises (just on the one side of the headphone) with my brand new D10, touching the source or the portable amp would make it go. Stax swapped for another new unit which suffered from the same issue, just less so. I grounded the wires in my listening room and never had any such issues thereafter


----------



## pataburd

The outlet in current use is ungrounded (old house with old wiring).  I tried a 3- to 2-prong adapter and screwed the grounding tab to the outlet, but that didn't help, either.

Another option is to set-up a listening station in a different room downstairs (with grounded outlets), which might be a good "Lenten" thing to do because it would definitely curb/curtail my Stax head time.  : )


----------



## pataburd (Mar 9, 2022)

Will try the SR-007 Mk.1.  I think the KGSSHV might be "made-to-order" for those.

. . . update . . .
The SR-007 Mk.1 now sound "complete": LARGE and teeming with detail.
Overall, though, I would opine that the KGSSHV, for me, has a more signal effect on the Lambdas.  The more time I spend with them, the more I like the SR-L500 Mk.2.
(Listening to, and very much enjoying with the  Lambdas, "Origin", by Gary burton and Pat Metheny atm.)


----------



## KDS315

An old trick is to use several grounding wires and in a star-like fashion ground all used equipment (Player, Streamer, DAC, Amp etc.) to only one earthing point, a room heater (if you have warm water heaters)


----------



## pataburd

Danke schoen!
Will give it a try.
: )


----------



## KDS315

If you look at e*ay and search for GROUND EARTH WIRE you’ll find suitable ones


----------



## bearFNF

pataburd said:


> The outlet in current use is ungrounded (old house with old wiring).  I tried a 3- to 2-prong adapter and screwed the grounding tab to the outlet, but that didn't help, either.
> 
> Another option is to set-up a listening station in a different room downstairs (with grounded outlets), which might be a good "Lenten" thing to do because it would definitely curb/curtail my Stax head time.  : )


Sometimes the ground on the outlets is not complete due to either using plastic boxes, or not running a ground from the conduit to earth, or a "break" in the conduit due to alterations or oversite during renovations. The only way to "fix" it is to run a ground wire from earth to the outlets/or circuit of outlets in question. If you have an outlet with known good ground try running a cord from it into this room and see if helps. Or try running a ground wire from the suspect device out to a known good ground. Key here is to get a known good ground to start isolating where the issue is coming from. Or try the grounding strat that @KDS315 suggested.


----------



## pataburd (Mar 8, 2022)

Left the amp and 007Mk.1 running unattended for the last few hours, came back and the hum is gone(!).
???
Whatever it is, I'll take it!


----------



## pataburd

A slight hum has returned, while in the middle of "Holy Land" by David Newman.
???


----------



## pataburd

Now it's gone away again(!).
???


----------



## KDS315

If that was tubes, I would understand that, they need "burn in". Transistors like your KGSSHV usually don't need that that much, but some people swear a several hours "burn in" is needed. Let it run for quite a few hours and see what happens....


----------



## dagothur

I got my Mjolnir SR-006t in on Monday, using it with an ESP/95X.
I haven't listened to a tube amp in a long time before this but I'm very pleased with the purchase. The sound is much fuller and more authoritative but maintains a lot of the ethereal nature unique to electrostats. I would liken it to upgrading from the AGD NFB-10SE to the D27 (which I've discovered can only run RCA _or _balanced XLR at one time, not both) and suddenly hearing everything new. 
Spritzer tells me this amp is meant to pair well with the SR-007 which has me excited for another estat upgrade down the road.  I have noticed that the amp runs hot after an hour or so, however, but I imagine that's normal with tube amps.


----------



## bigjako

I, too, recently picked up a Mjolnir Carbon and have been nearly blown away by it.  The bass on my ES-1a rivals the LCD2 but with such wonderful clarity and extension.  It's also transformed the L300 LEs in a different way (less bass, more layers compared to the ES-1a).  I'll post more detailed findings as I just finally got it running properly off my coax from the Yggy and want to run through my headphones, then will A/B it against my tubiest amp, the Eddie Current Electra.  But I'll definitely be selling the CCS-modded 006t now, and possibly even the Electra because the Carbon is smooth like tubes, sharp like solid state.


----------



## Trance_Gott

bigjako said:


> I, too, recently picked up a Mjolnir Carbon and have been nearly blown away by it.  The bass on my ES-1a rivals the LCD2 but with such wonderful clarity and extension.  It's also transformed the L300 LEs in a different way (less bass, more layers compared to the ES-1a).  I'll post more detailed findings as I just finally got it running properly off my coax from the Yggy and want to run through my headphones, then will A/B it against my tubiest amp, the Eddie Current Electra.  But I'll definitely be selling the CCS-modded 006t now, and possibly even the Electra because the Carbon is smooth like tubes, sharp like solid state.


I wished more people would hear the CRBN over a KGSShv Carbon like I'm now unbelievable good!


----------



## Menkau-ra

Trance_Gott said:


> I wished more people would hear the CRBN over a KGSShv Carbon like I'm now unbelievable good!


Can you run CRBN on a SRM-252S?


----------



## Trance_Gott

Menkau-ra said:


> Can you run CRBN on a SRM-252S?


Currently I have only KGSShv Carbon available sold all other amps.


----------



## pataburd

Menkau-ra said:


> Can you run CRBN on a SRM-252S?


It should.  Same (Pro) bias and pin configuration: *"Works with all 580 Volt Pro Bias amplifiers"*, according to Audeze's website.  

https://www.audeze.com/products/crb...&utm_term=Audeze CRBN&utm_content=Audeze CRBN

The SR-252S most likely won't drive the CRBN to their full potential.


----------



## pataburd (Mar 10, 2022)

The SR-L500 Mk.2 are getting more head-time with the (non-"Carbonated") KGSSHV than are the SR-007 Mk.1 lately.
A really fine match and a spritely listen that seems to get better with every session.


----------



## lostrockets

bigjako said:


> I, too, recently picked up a Mjolnir Carbon and have been nearly blown away by it.  The bass on my ES-1a rivals the LCD2 but with such wonderful clarity and extension.  It's also transformed the L300 LEs in a different way (less bass, more layers compared to the ES-1a).  I'll post more detailed findings as I just finally got it running properly off my coax from the Yggy and want to run through my headphones, then will A/B it against my tubiest amp, the Eddie Current Electra.  But I'll definitely be selling the CCS-modded 006t now, and possibly even the Electra because the Carbon is smooth like tubes, sharp like solid state.


Curious what caused you to pickup an es1a vs others like voce or 007 or 009?


----------



## bigjako

I admittedly was planning to get the 007 (I heard both the 007 and 009 at Canjam and the 009 sounded off to me. I heard the Voce there too but it was... forgettable?) but a good opportunity to get the ES-1a came up and I jumped on it.  Separately, I really enjoyed working with Benson for my Sigma replica and was happy to be able to get his ES-1a too. 

It's a great set of ear speakers, and really follows the Stax sound sig (I've had Kaldas and Hives and the ES-1a is definitely closer to the Stax sig than those others).  I think of it as the 008 - it has the sub-bass and slam of the 007 and the speed and detail of the 009.  Or maybe it's more accurate to say it has 90% of the bass of the 007 and 90% of the detail of the 009 and comes in somewhere in-between them - the 008.


----------



## pataburd

Maybe the *7.999 . . .* (repeating decimal)?  : )


----------



## lostrockets

bigjako said:


> I admittedly was planning to get the 007 (I heard both the 007 and 009 at Canjam and the 009 sounded off to me. I heard the Voce there too but it was... forgettable?) but a good opportunity to get the ES-1a came up and I jumped on it.  Separately, I really enjoyed working with Benson for my Sigma replica and was happy to be able to get his ES-1a too.
> 
> It's a great set of ear speakers, and really follows the Stax sound sig (I've had Kaldas and Hives and the ES-1a is definitely closer to the Stax sig than those others).  I think of it as the 008 - it has the sub-bass and slam of the 007 and the speed and detail of the 009.  Or maybe it's more accurate to say it has 90% of the bass of the 007 and 90% of the detail of the 009 and comes in somewhere in-between them - the 008.


gotcha, thanks for sharing, ive been reading up and it seems like people say the same, so was considering giving them a try.  whos benson btw?


----------



## protoss

@bigjako 

Is your ES Sigma with the 404 driver or L700? Can I see a pic?


----------



## makan

bigjako said:


> I admittedly was planning to get the 007 (I heard both the 007 and 009 at Canjam and the 009 sounded off to me. I heard the Voce there too but it was... forgettable?) but a good opportunity to get the ES-1a came up and I jumped on it.  Separately, I really enjoyed working with Benson for my Sigma replica and was happy to be able to get his ES-1a too.
> 
> It's a great set of ear speakers, and really follows the Stax sound sig (I've had Kaldas and Hives and the ES-1a is definitely closer to the Stax sig than those others).  I think of it as the 008 - it has the sub-bass and slam of the 007 and the speed and detail of the 009.  Or maybe it's more accurate to say it has 90% of the bass of the 007 and 90% of the detail of the 009 and comes in somewhere in-between them - the 008.


I agree with your ES1A asssessment.  I have a 009S and 007mk1.


----------



## Sandro Sena

protoss said:


> @bigjako
> 
> Is your ES Sigma with the 404 driver or L700? Can I see a pic?



@bigjako

I have the same question and make the same request. Thank you in advance.


----------



## bigjako

Sandro Sena said:


> I have the same question and make the same request. Thank you in advance.


Benson is the owner of ES Labs, really nice guy who clearly has a love and expertise for estats. 

I have the 404 drivers in mine.  I got them a while back, I had an obsession with hearing a Sigma but the OGs were too hard to find and expensive and of questionable lifespan.  These are practically brand new.  They really only work for acoustic and classical music, but for those they work really really well.  They don't get much head time for me and I always toy with the idea of selling them to put towards something that would get more use, but they're so unique I look at them also like functional works of audio art.  And jazz sounds amazing with them (particularly on the Carbon).

Pics incoming.


----------



## lostrockets

bigjako said:


> Benson is the owner of ES Labs, really nice guy who clearly has a love and expertise for estats.
> 
> I have the 404 drivers in mine.  I got them a while back, I had an obsession with hearing a Sigma but the OGs were too hard to find and expensive and of questionable lifespan.  These are practically brand new.  They really only work for acoustic and classical music, but for those they work really really well.  They don't get much head time for me and I always toy with the idea of selling them to put towards something that would get more use, but they're so unique I look at them also like functional works of audio art.  And jazz sounds amazing with them (particularly on the Carbon).
> 
> Pics incoming.


with the 404 vs 700 drivers, are they supposed to sound like the original 404 and 700 ? why do they only work for acoustic/classical?


----------



## padam (Mar 12, 2022)

lostrockets said:


> with the 404 vs 700 drivers, are they supposed to sound like the original 404 and 700 ? why do they only work for acoustic/classical?


No, they will sound very different. The maker wrote a very brief comparison here.

As long as you are at piece with a big bass hump with a certain boxy quality to it (that gets progressively reduced as it gets more and more power, and you also get used to it after 10-15 minutes), they work with many different things, but they excel with playing closely-miked vocals which fill up that virtual room, they also excel and playing piano, they can capture the atmosphere of a rock concert, etc.
Basically, you either love the warm, "extremely calm" view that they present to you (Sigmas are special in a way, that I can listen to them at moderate volumes and do other activities, because they don't bother me that much, they are not close or intense)
Or you hate them, because the clarity, transparency and linearity is nowhere near other Staxes due to their design limitations.


----------



## bigjako

lostrockets said:


> with the 404 vs 700 drivers, are they supposed to sound like the original 404 and 700 ? why do they only work for acoustic/classical?


They are the actual drivers from those units, that he takes out and puts them into the Sigma-style box shells.  I’ve not heard the original NB Sigmas but these are supposed to have more clarity and will work on Pro jacks. 

I just meant that rock and anything with slam and bass doesn’t really work well on the Sigmas. The direction of the driver and the padded “earroom” diffuse the slam a lot.  It works well for jazz and acoustic and classical music but I find it muted for rock and electronic music.  The driver is in front of you, aimed to the back of the “room” rather than into your ear.


----------



## protoss

@bigjako 

There are two OG Sigmas. 1 Normal bias and 1 Pro bias. The OG Sigmas were warm and somewhat muddy. 
Putting a L700 drivers inside a sigma seems like a brilliant idea and the ones people should buy.


----------



## BenF

pataburd said:


> Anyone tried the L700 pads on the L500 and care to comment (or direct me to a pertinent post)?
> Thank you.
> 
> Anyone tried the SoCas padmod, padmod spacer or canmod for the Lamdas and care to comment (or direct me to a pertinent post)?
> ...


L500 is just L300 with different pads, so you can see the comparison here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-l300-impressions-thread.813511/post-14123234


----------



## Petergrifindor (Mar 14, 2022)

Hello, before long I will be buying a pair of Stax headphones (009s and X9000), and now I'm at the point in which I'm arranging the place of the new headphone system in my home.

I would love if someone could provide me the measures (length, width, height ) of the Stax paulownia wood boxes that came with the headphones. I suppose they must be the same for the two models. I have searched the internet but couldn't find them, and knowing  would really help me to design the space in advance. I intend to use them to store the headphones.

Thanks a lot for your help.


----------



## sonics (Mar 14, 2022)

X9000 wooden box: 158 x 245 x 335 mm (L x W x H)


----------



## rpaltaufstax

Same for SR-009, thus shoukd be identical for SR-009 S

Regards Rainer
​


----------



## Petergrifindor

Thanks a lot guys.

Entering Stax heaven it's getting closer. Got the source, got the DAC, got the amp... miss headphones LOL. 

But they are coming.


----------



## Menkau-ra

Anybody tried SR-003MK2? Are they any good?


----------



## gregadd (Mar 14, 2022)

Probably not. But I am no expert. I am talking removing the wrinkle. Not the headphones.


----------



## KDS315

Menkau-ra said:


> Anybody tried SR-003MK2? Are they any good?


Yes, quite happy with them. Use a SRM-D10 to drive them when I work on my laptop. Use ORATORY1990 EQ files on ROON which makes them even sound better!


----------



## Menkau-ra

KDS315 said:


> Yes, quite happy with them. Use a SRM-D10 to drive them when I work on my laptop. Use ORATORY1990 EQ files on ROON which makes them even sound better!


Do they sound like any other big Stax?


----------



## cpu235

Hi, I am looking for a cheap stax energizer for the RR1 (Something like a srm 252s) If anyone is selling one feel free to pm me, thanks!


----------



## ri_toast

Menkau-ra said:


> Do they sound like any other big Stax?


In a word no. I had expectations of magic like most of the Stax headphones I'd heard. I still have them and the 252. Not planning on selling them. It's not that they are bad, just not great.
If you're looking for "that" sound I'd suggest the 7HZ Timeless; Planar, same form factor, cheaper and VERY portable. This probably just me but full size headphones are for listening. For the most part iems are the compromise in traveling. Granted I don't have any top tier iems and I'd be happy (overjoyed) to find that I'm wrong.

I will say that they are resolving and clean and I have enjoyed them for what they are. Big is not a word I would use however. Maybe Stax will do something in the future. idk, they seem committed to the line they are great at building, smart.


----------



## KDS315

Menkau-ra said:


> Do they sound like any other big Stax?


There are reviews out there which I recommend to read. I prefer using them EQed to Harmon curve using the Oratory1990 settings. Then I find them pretty good.


----------



## dynavit

Menkau-ra said:


> Anybody tried SR-003MK2? Are they any good?


The main problem with the Stax inears is not the sound, but the fitting. They are rather long and big and it is difficult to fix other eartips.
If they fit, their sound is more in direction of 007.


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> Anybody tried SR-003MK2? Are they any good?


They are very uncomfortable. 
For best sound, you have to listen to 003 cable up with channels reversed - or cable down, but with earpieces hooked on the opposite sides (with the opening only partially exposed). Still, doesn't sound as good as L300/L500.


----------



## KDS315

I would not generalize this; I wear them quite long and not reversed; of course depends in head and ears (mine are both big :LOL
Of course it is not a LAMBDA or even Omega replacement; never meant to be - it is  light mobile unit (I use it with the SRM-D10).


----------



## BenF

KDS315 said:


> I would not generalize this; I wear them quite long and not reversed; of course depends in head and ears (mine are both big :LOL
> Of course it is not a LAMBDA or even Omega replacement; never meant to be - it is  light mobile unit (I use it with the SRM-D10).


For the price of D10+003 you can get a lot better SQ and comfort in non-electrostatic earphones.


----------



## ri_toast

BenF said:


> For the price of D10+003 you can get a lot better SQ and comfort in non-electrostatic earphones.


sure, but as a portable.
NO ONE had the form factor with the technology before (2012) Stax did; no planar iem and no iem electrostatic afaik. Today there are options....good ones and cheaper.
I'm not sure about the original poster intent.
Menkau-ra care to fill us in? Is it Stax or just a great iem?


----------



## Menkau-ra

BenF said:


> They are very uncomfortable.
> For best sound, you have to listen to 003 cable up with channels reversed - or cable down, but with earpieces hooked on the opposite sides (with the opening only partially exposed). Still, doesn't sound as good as L300/L500.



Have you tried those CES-A1?


----------



## ri_toast

leaving now to pickup some SR-007 waiting for me at the post office


----------



## BenF

Menkau-ra said:


> Have you tried those CES-A1?


Yes.
Sound quality became worse, comfort didn't improve.


----------



## KDS315

Menkau-ra said:


> Have you tried those CES-A1?


Yes, I use them with mine, much better fit!!


----------



## droido256

New owner of a srs3100 system. Soon to be a proud owner of a sr-700mk2+d-10 combo. Never thought I’d get a electrostatic…. Jesus I could’ve saved so much money(ironically the cost until I discovered the srs-3100 kept me away) my gawd metal on electrostats is just so fast and aggressive (I like that) while no the L-300 doesn’t do planar magnetic bass (esp the lcd-2) I was surprised how much bass it does have. I was thinking on the light diaphragm and less(well I thought) less motor action vs magnet wouldn’t move with enough force…. I was wrong. Vocals on the L-300 are omg, and these are the low end ones. I’m excited to try the L-700. While I’m not willing to shell out 6200$ for the sr-x9000….my mind wonders. How do those sound 😳


----------



## droido256 (Mar 18, 2022)

Question….. I’m new to electrostatic. When I say walk away, I turn the driver off. Is this kind of system with the electrostat and driver ok to turn on and off or is it like tube where best to leave on if away for like say 10 mins or so? Tubes I know don’t like cycling on and off. Is electrostatic the same way?

Edit: one thing I noticed unlike other headphones, shifting the headphones on your head with the L-300 doesn’t affect the sound unlike other driver types.


----------



## ri_toast

droido256 said:


> New owner of a srs3100 system. Soon to be a proud owner of a sr-700mk2+d-10 combo. Never thought I’d get a electrostatic…. Jesus I could’ve saved so much money(ironically the cost until I discovered the srs-3100 kept me away) my gawd metal on electrostats is just so fast and aggressive (I like that) while no the L-300 doesn’t do planar magnetic bass (esp the lcd-2) I was surprised how much bass it does have. I was thinking on the light diaphragm and less(well I thought) less motor action vs magnet wouldn’t move with enough force…. I was wrong. Vocals on the L-300 are omg, and these are the low end ones. I’m excited to try the L-700. While I’m not willing to shell out 6200$ for the sr-x9000….my mind wonders. How do those sound 😳


sure "entry level" system.
I got a chance to listen to the 009 and 007 at a can jam in NY a few years ago. It was just for a few minutes but enough to make an impression; highly recommend taking in a show or two.


----------



## ri_toast

droido256 said:


> Question….. I’m new to electrostatic. When I say walk away, I turn the driver off. Is this kind of system with the electrostat and driver ok to turn on and off or is it like tube where best to leave on if away for like say 10 mins or so? Tubes I know don’t like cycling on and off. Is electrostatic the same way?


I've never seen that as a recommendation on stats, so no. It only takes a short time for the charge to come up anyway... talking seconds to be fully ready.


----------



## droido256

ri_toast said:


> sure "entry level" system.
> I got a chance to listen to the 009 and 007 at a can jam in NY a few years ago. It was just for a few minutes but enough to make an impression; highly recommend taking in a show or two.


Lol I wish I could, but sadly I work too much to, and getting vacation is hard. I’ve always wanted to hear a Heddphone or Raal. But my free time is limited. Hell I’d love to try a Sr-x9000. 
Glad to hear about switching the driver on and off. I didn’t think so, given how it’s made vs a tube having a heater and whatnot. Just was curious.


----------



## droido256

ri_toast said:


> sure "entry level" system.
> I got a chance to listen to the 009 and 007 at a can jam in NY a few years ago. It was just for a few minutes but enough to make an impression; highly recommend taking in a show or two.


Yeah but from my POV a entry level that runs toe to toe with upper ends I own lol


----------



## martin778 (Mar 18, 2022)

Can someone point me to new earpads for SR-Sigma? These are different than the current EP-207/407 for sure, also the EP207's come with a woven mesh grille that falls into the metal plate the ESL panel sits in in the Lambdas. I'm pretty sure that won't work with the Sigma.
Last but not least, should I bother in trying to find an SRM-1/MK2 or T1 or is the SRD-7 with a good amp plenty good?


----------



## ri_toast

droido256 said:


> Yeah but from my POV a entry level that runs toe to toe with upper ends I own lol


right, that was the point. Stax entry level could be end game.
local shows might not be vacation, weekend maybe depends on where you are.
check the Local / Regional Head-Fi Meets, Parties, Get-Togethers forum


----------



## padam

martin778 said:


> Can someone point me to new earpads for SR-Sigma? These are different than the current EP-207/407 for sure, also the EP207's come with a woven mesh grille that falls into the metal plate the ESL panel sits in in the Lambdas. I'm pretty sure that won't work with the Sigma.
> Last but not least, should I bother in trying to find an SRM-1/MK2 or T1 or is the SRD-7 with a good amp plenty good?


You can leave out the protector mesh or find a way to secure it to the pads. EP-507 is thinner and closer to the original, but much more expensive.
You don't want to drive Sigmas with a cheaper, less powerful amp as they become very warm and soft, an SRD-7 should be a bit better.


----------



## martin778

Well, I'd really like to keep the protector in place as you know the mineral wool is kinda itchy on the ears


----------



## padam

I don't touch that anywhere even with original pads. But as I wrote, you can use adhesive or a few droplets of glue to secure the protector to the pads, should be pretty easy.


----------



## bearFNF

droido256 said:


> Question….. I’m new to electrostatic. When I say walk away, I turn the driver off. Is this kind of system with the electrostat and driver ok to turn on and off or is it like tube where best to leave on if away for like say 10 mins or so? Tubes I know don’t like cycling on and off. Is electrostatic the same way?
> 
> Edit: one thing I noticed unlike other headphones, shifting the headphones on your head with the L-300 doesn’t affect the sound unlike other driver types.


As always YMMV and IMO, but, If its only for 10 minutes I would just leave it on. It is still an amp that needs to warm up to reach equilibrium and "optimal" operating temperature. Some amps take longer than others to get to this point, how long the warm up period varies and I think best practice is to leave it on.
Heck even my little Schiit HEL takes a few minutes to warm up. Even if it were just and energizer powered off a speaker amp, it (and the speaker amp) would need time to warm up and reach Optimal working temperature.


----------



## ri_toast

martin778 said:


> should I bother in trying to find an SRM-1/MK2 or T1 or is the SRD-7 with a good amp plenty good?


Being a normal bias Sigma your options are somewhat limited. I just picked up an 007 yesterday and one of my concerns was if the SRM-1/MK2 I already have would be adequate. Happily it is with a Topping DX7 as a dac and flac files. Balanced inputs would be nice but line level works fine; not a long run. Seeing the upgrade path into a better amp seems less of a priority and more of an future upgrade option. There are few Stax amps that offer Normal and Pro. I have some GAS equipment that might pair nicely with a SRD-7 Pro. I do have the original Lambdas and a nb SRD-7. I never found it lacking except for the exclusion a pro bias circuit. I haven't used it since upgrading to the MK2.


----------



## Trance_Gott (Mar 18, 2022)

When someone from EU is interested in an 007 MK2 SZ2xxx bass port mod the best sounding 007 of 6 I ever heared in pristine condition can contact me.


----------



## KDS315 (Mar 18, 2022)

May I present the newest member of the high-amp.de family of amps for STAX - the ELECTRA, which I got to test, as I already own his SIRIUS transistor amp, as well as his ANTARES tube hybrid.

Technical data and measurements of ELECTRA is here at its maker, Andreas Rauenbuehler’s site:
http://high-amp.de/html/elektra_offer.html

Did a bit comparative A/B/C listening: Electra sounds a bit rounder and fuller as the drier sounding Sirius, closer to the Antares tube hybrid amp. Superb for Jazz and Vocals / Acoustic music; also great for Pop/R&B music.

The Sirius however is superb for Rock, Electronic, HipHop, Metal where more kick and a colder + drier sound is needed / liked. Classic also sounds good with the Electra but the Sirius has an edge above it at very complex forte passages.

ELECTRA runs quite cooler and needs no warm up time; it has XLR abd RCA inputs as well as both XLR / RCA passive loop through outputs.


----------



## BTD1

In *addition to the pro bias of 580v the ifi iESL allows you to select 600v 620 or 640v.  What would selecting a higher bias do to my Stax x9000 or CRBN headphones?   Would it improve the sound or damage the drivers?*


----------



## KDS315

Let me know the colors of the smoke your X9000 and CRBN emits then…


----------



## BTD1

KDS315 said:


> Let me know the colors of the smoke your X9000 and CRBN emits then…


Really?  Why would iFi include these voltages if they could damage your headphones?  It's pretty easy to select one of these higher voltages by mistake.  Fortunately, the iESL is a secondary system, but now I am really curious!


----------



## ri_toast (Mar 18, 2022)

went looking and found this BTD1 https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ectrostatic-headphone-energizer-review.11076/
interesting read... not too long


----------



## BTD1

Thanks so much.  There’s a lot of good information in this report.


----------



## droido256 (Mar 18, 2022)

Holy hell, this song though the srs-3100, why… why didn’t I spring for Stax sooner? Could’ve saved a lot of money. But then again missed the journey. I don’t regret.
The treble attack, well attack period is so fast. From what I’m seeing, Stax is one of the only affordable high quality electrostats. Thanks to the SRS-3100 I have to say after cycling through my headphones. Most of them feel dull now….. this is the entry model…..entry.


----------



## 486892

droido256 said:


> Holy hell, this song though the srs-3100, why… why didn’t I spring for Stax sooner? Could’ve saved a lot of money. But then again missed the journey. I don’t regret.
> The treble attack, well attack period is so fast. From what I’m seeing, Stax is one of the only affordable high quality electrostats. Thanks to the SRS-3100 I have to say after cycling through my headphones. Most of them feel dull now….. this is the entry model…..entry.



It's actually fun to go back for previous headphones in the journey and keep wondering how much more detailed the Stax are and why I though the other were good at the time? And again, what next?


----------



## martin778 (Mar 23, 2022)

Wow, the NB Sigma is not bueno with SRM1/MK2. Super hot on the treble running from a modern DAC. Hard to describe....brash, gritty? Maybe with a tube DAC but this doesn't match so well.

Or maybe this is how they're supposed to sound? Reminds me of the Lambda Pro - nice mids but so hot on the treble.


----------



## bigjako (Mar 23, 2022)

martin778 said:


> Or maybe this is how they're supposed to sound? Reminds me of the Lambda Pro - nice mids but so hot on the treble.


No, that's not how they're supposed to sound.  The NBs (for me, on all devices) are smooth and sweet.  Sparkly but not harsh.  Though, true story, the first time I listened to an electrostatic was about 2 years ago with a NB Lambda off of an SR-X and an SRD-7 and I was hooked.  But the next day my ears hurt.  I wasn't listening loud, but it exercised my weaker treble muscles so intensely that I did feel it the next day and had to work my tolerance up. 

Never heard a SRM/Mk1 though, so perhaps it drives the balance in that direction. I have 2 NBs and neither feels overly hot or bright.  Sparkly yeah, but smooth.

My EC Electra is currently in the shop to get one of the 2 Pro outputs converted to Normal so I can hear them on that beast. I think it will sound like a much wider BH Stat but who knows.


----------



## matts19 (Mar 23, 2022)

Hello there. I am thinking of acquiring a used STAX tube amplifier under $1000. What would be the best choice please ? I am lost in the sea of many models over the past years.... I personally prefer the classic tubey/thick/warm/bassy sound and as little hum as possible. My headphones are actually Koss ESP950 so I would also need to get the adapter as well. Thanks.


----------



## timb5881

Bb


matts19 said:


> Hello there. I am thinking of acquiring a used STAX tube amplifier under $1000. What would be the best choice please ? I am lost in the sea of many models over the past years.... I personally prefer the classic tubey/thick/warm/bassy sound and as little hum as possible. My headphones are actually Koss ESP950 so I would also need to get the adapter as well. Thanks.


you might wish to consider a Stax Transformer like the SR-7 Pro and use that with a tube amp of your choice.


----------



## KDS315 (Mar 24, 2022)

matts19 said:


> Hello there. I am thinking of acquiring a used STAX tube amplifier under $1000. What would be the best choice please ? I am lost in the sea of many models over the past years.... I personally prefer the classic tubey/thick/warm/bassy sound and as little hum as possible. My headphones are actually Koss ESP950 so I would also need to get the adapter as well. Thanks.


For that you could get a used SRM-T1 converted to use ECC99 tubes and using CCS (constant current sources). Mine sounds pretty good  (of a few amps for Stax in comparison)


----------



## matts19

timb5881 said:


> Bb
> 
> you might wish to consider a Stax Transformer like the SR-7 Pro and use that with a tube amp of your choice.


I looked it up and it seems to draw power from a speaker amp. I only have SS headamp and OTL tube headamp  For now I am using OTL amp pre-out -> Koss e/90 -> E950 and it works but I wish I had a full STAX tube amp


----------



## matts19

KDS315 said:


> For that you could get a used SRM-T1 converted to use ECC99 tubes and using CCS (constant current sources). Mine sounds pretty good  (of a few amps for Stax in comparison)


What is the benefit of CCS mod please ? This constant current part I do not understand what kind of benefit it can bring. Thanks.


----------



## martin778 (Mar 24, 2022)

Did a small mod to the Sigma, replaced the rotten foam woth the current woven mesh grilles you get with EP234 etc. no more itchy ears from fiberglass. Super fiddly job though, the grilles have to be glued into the Sigma frames as otherwise they'll just fall inside the earcups.
Tamed down the highs a bit as well but they are still too hot for me.


----------



## ri_toast (Mar 24, 2022)

martin778 said:


> Did a small mod to the Sigma, replaced the rotten foam woth the current woven mesh grilles you get with EP234 etc. no more itchy ears from fiberglass. Super fiddly job though, the grilles have to be glued into the Sigma frames as otherwise they'll just fall inside the earcups.
> Tamed down the highs a bit as well but they are still too hot for me.


thin foam over the driver? Different or more damping material. Almost hard to imagine the glass in contact with your ears. Are you saying it's proximity, allergic?
tubes match nicely with Lambdas; warmer. I have the SRM-1MK2 and nb don't seem hot...then again mature ears. Never heard dog whistles, never will.

edit added link https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/stax-sigma.13100/
some info there on damping material


----------



## lostrockets

matts19 said:


> Hello there. I am thinking of acquiring a used STAX tube amplifier under $1000. What would be the best choice please ? I am lost in the sea of many models over the past years.... I personally prefer the classic tubey/thick/warm/bassy sound and as little hum as possible. My headphones are actually Koss ESP950 so I would also need to get the adapter as well. Thanks.



Have u considered something new from high amp?


----------



## KDS315

Yep, the ANTARES would certainly be a great choice! Wonderful warm tube amp it is...happy to have that too.


----------



## droido256

Just got in the Sr-L700/D-10 combo. Giving it a maiden listen. So far is wow. A very woooonderful sound overall. Just have to get the d-10 to work with my iPhone via the camera kit.


----------



## lsantista

this setup works very well with my iPhone 7 as well through the micro usb in. A bigger / desktop DAC instead of the D10 is expected to have issues indeed, and the more expensive apple adaptor with the extra connection for charging would be required, as you'd get a "this device requires too much power" message on screen (tried also with an Iphone 12 Plus, 13, etc.)


----------



## hifixman




----------



## droido256

lsantista said:


> this setup works very well with my iPhone 7 as well through the micro usb in. A bigger / desktop DAC instead of the D10 is expected to have issues indeed, and the more expensive apple adaptor with the extra connection for charging would be required, as you'd get a "this device requires too much power" message on screen (tried also with an Iphone 12 Plus, 13, etc.)


I’m not getting any kind of error, just not acting like it’s recognizing the d-10 as a dac. I’ll try it this weekend with the pc see if the dac section is working right. As a line in amp it is working great.


----------



## John Buchanan

martin778 said:


> Wow, the NB Sigma is not bueno with SRM1/MK2. Super hot on the treble running from a modern DAC. Hard to describe....brash, gritty? Maybe with a tube DAC but this doesn't match so well.
> 
> Or maybe this is how they're supposed to sound? Reminds me of the Lambda Pro - nice mids but so hot on the treble.


Normal Bias Sigmas run from an SRM1 Mk2 are definitely not bright - they are actually too dull. That's the reason for the replacement of the drivers with an SR404 driver or Lambda Signature driver. That implant gives the Sigmas a more "normal" treble (level wise) and a bit more control over the bass.


----------



## droido256

I’ve always had amp/dacs like the idsd completely lock out the volume on the iPhone. The D-10 doesn’t do that. Is that normal, and is the dac working properly? Sound transmits fine tho seems best when the iPhone’s volume is at 100%. When the amp turns off, the iPhone volume changes back to the speaker defaults. , unlike when using line in. The idsd and the fiio Q3 are the only amp/dacs I’ve used as a dac. So kinda green on the subject


----------



## martin778 (Mar 29, 2022)

John Buchanan said:


> Normal Bias Sigmas run from an SRM1 Mk2 are definitely not bright - they are actually too dull. That's the reason for the replacement of the drivers with an SR404 driver or Lambda Signature driver. That implant gives the Sigmas a more "normal" treble (level wise) and a bit more control over the bass.


Ha, sounds like this is definitely not the way to go for me then. Yes, the midrange might be dull but there is an itch in the HF response that I also perceive with the old Lambdas. The newer ones also suffer from this (to my ears) but the overall quality of reproduction increases and so it's less obvious like with the older ones while the mid can be dull but the HF still hot.
Maybe the 007mk2 would've been a good bet? Do these also suffer from the Stax fart?


----------



## droido256

Question for the future. Should dust somehow settle on the driver(the sides facing away from the ear), what would the safe way to clean and keep clean the stator? Or the pores? A gentle pc vacuum? I keep them in Stax headphone covers. The L-700 on a wood stand, the L-300 laying down inside the Stax cover until my other headphone stand arrives. I def want to keep them in top top shape for life.


----------



## ri_toast (Mar 29, 2022)

martin778 said:


> Ha, sounds like this is definitely not the way to go for me then. Yes, the midrange might be dull but there is an itch in the HF response that I also perceive with the old Lambdas. The newer ones also suffer from this (to my ears) but the overall quality of reproduction increases and so it's less obvious like with the older ones while the mid can be dull but the HF still hot.
> Maybe the 007mk2 would've been a good bet? Do these also suffer from the Stax fart?


I'm very impressed with the new to me 007s. Treble and mids are a bit underwhelming but a few tweaks in the eq of foobar in the right places does wonders. Not going to lie or misrepresent, I find the Normal Bias and Pro Bias of the Lambda line to be (for the most part) spot on. I do like a forward presentation. This direction of minor adjustment is where I took the 007s. Still very deep with bass and very linear as well. Probably the best I've heard or will ever hear. The upper mids and treble have some peaks and valleys but everything is there. Using eq on the 007s for me may be only placebo. Adjustments have been slight and based on frequency response curves of the model. Personal experience is much better than recommendation. As always, listen before you buy.

As for the "fart" don't push the headphones into your ears, I prefer letting the signal move the diaphragms. I haven't noticed it on the 7s and I'm not testing for it. I did it once with the 407s by accident, never again.

The question I've wanted to ask but haven't till now is what headphone were you listening to prior to finding the Stax line (Lambda) shrill? Source, media and settings play a part?

Edit: addition. There is one thing I like with the Lambdas that the 007s don't do and that's fit: light as a feather and comfortable. Not the the 007s don't fit or are uncomfortable, just better.


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## martin778 (Mar 29, 2022)

I'm used to Beyerdynamic Amirons and HD600 series, the Senns being known for their rather dark sound signature. Also tried Hifiman Ananda BT's but these were ear bleeding for me...and I've had many many Staxes, LNB, LPS, 404, 407, have the Sigma.


----------



## bigjako

Request for help: I have an amp in the shop to convert 1 of the Pro Bias jacks to Normal Bias.  My amp guy has never done it and is not finding any instructions online, and I've searched and come up pretty empty myself, including to the amp maker himself.  Does anyone know of a link to detailed instructions for how to convert a Pro bias tap to a Normal bias one?


----------



## KDS315

bigjako said:


> Request for help: I have an amp in the shop to convert 1 of the Pro Bias jacks to Normal Bias.  My amp guy has never done it and is not finding any instructions online, and I've searched and come up pretty empty myself, including to the amp maker himself.  Does anyone know of a link to detailed instructions for how to convert a Pro bias tap to a Normal bias one?


Here, that should do (from the SRM-T1 schematics)


----------



## kevin gilmore

you need a 6 pin socket for regular bias headphones. so that is going to be a problem.


----------



## timb5881

droido256 said:


> Question for the future. Should dust somehow settle on the driver(the sides facing away from the ear), what would the safe way to clean and keep clean the stator? Or the pores? A gentle pc vacuum? I keep them in Stax headphone covers. The L-700 on a wood stand, the L-300 laying down inside the Stax cover until my other headphone stand arrives. I def want to keep them in top top shape for life.


I use a small pen type vacuum that are used to clean keyboards.


----------



## droido256

timb5881 said:


> I use a small pen type vacuum that are used to clean keyboards.


Thanks! 🙌🏻 I didn’t know if the suction could cause damage to the membrane.


----------



## bearFNF

kevin gilmore said:


> you need a 6 pin socket for regular bias headphones. so that is going to be a problem.


Looks like they are still available on Etsy...
https://www.etsy.com/listing/251914...landingpage_similar_listing_top-2&frs=1&sts=1


----------



## ri_toast

bearFNF said:


> Looks like they are still available on Etsy...
> https://www.etsy.com/listing/251914969/6-pin-chassis-mount-female-stax-normal?click_key=eb68457468c6026af699c9fd202ccca22ad73226:251914969&click_sum=7dc6d5fe&rec_type=ss&ref=landingpage_similar_listing_top-2&frs=1&sts=1


fill the center pin with epoxy and avoid plugging in a nb by accident. Looks like the normal bias 7 o'clock and center share.
Too bad Stax doesn't remake these, certainly is a market... maybe just bad economics.

besides the woo wee and one made by Spritzer aka Mjölnirs SRD 7. I've got some nice 2 channel stuff in storage that would be pretty nice I bet. Nice to Kevin still comes around to help out. Cheers


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## bearFNF (Mar 29, 2022)

ri_toast said:


> fill the center pin with epoxy and avoid plugging in a nb by accident. Looks like the normal bias 7 o'clock and center share.
> Too bad Stax doesn't remake these, certainly is a market... maybe just bad economics.
> 
> besides the woo wee and one made by Spritzer aka Mjölnirs SRD 7. I've got some nice 2 channel stuff in storage that would be pretty nice I bet. Nice to Kevin still comes around to help out. Cheers


for the topic we were talking about he needs a NB socket...
Looks like etsy has a 5 pin pro socket also.

Oh, and I had HeadAmp put a Normal bias on my BHSE, so he might have some, too.
My WooWee is in storage, it has both sockets, also.

If you really got desperate and couldn't find it you COULD get one out of an old SRD7/SB (got one of those, also in storage). Huh, am I a hoarder? Nah, couldn't be, just a pack rat.


----------



## bigjako

kevin gilmore said:


> you need a 6 pin socket for regular bias headphones. so that is going to be a problem.


Thank you Kevin Gilmore and thanks everyone else, particularly KD.  I do have a spare SRD-7 and bought a 6 pin socket off eBay a couple months ago in anticipation of needing one, so hopefully that schematic will help my amp guy.


----------



## yaluen

droido256 said:


> Question for the future. Should dust somehow settle on the driver(the sides facing away from the ear), what would the safe way to clean and keep clean the stator? Or the pores? A gentle pc vacuum? I keep them in Stax headphone covers. The L-700 on a wood stand, the L-300 laying down inside the Stax cover until my other headphone stand arrives. I def want to keep them in top top shape for life.
> 
> 
> timb5881 said:
> ...



!

You want to avoid exerting undue stress on the faces of the drivers. The membranes that seal both sides of the sandwich are dust covers intended to keep debris out of the assembly and are fairly thin and delicate. If they're punctured or torn, any number of problems can develop.

Personally I'd avoid that part of the driver entirely and clean around it if cleaning is needed. IIRC the cages on the new lambdas are easily removable to make your job simpler, just a few screws to come out.


----------



## droido256

yaluen said:


> !
> 
> You want to avoid exerting undue stress on the faces of the drivers. The membranes that seal both sides of the sandwich are dust covers intended to keep debris out of the assembly and are fairly thin and delicate. If they're punctured or torn, any number of problems can develop.
> 
> Personally I'd avoid that part of the driver entirely and clean around it if cleaning is needed. IIRC the cages on the new lambdas are easily removable to make your job simpler, just a few screws to come out.


Ohhhh I see, definitely good to know. Thanks 🙌🏻


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## martin778 (Mar 30, 2022)

_*You want to avoid exerting undue stress on the faces of the drivers. The membranes that seal both sides of the sandwich are dust covers intended to keep debris out of the assembly and are fairly thin and delicate. If they're punctured or torn, any number of problems can develop.*_

Let me tell you this - they are extremely fragile. Even a brush will puncture them if hit under a certain angle. Stay away from any suction devices or brushes. If they are punctured or torn, you can pronounce the ESL unit dead as it 'will' start sizzling due to microscopic dust getting into it.

I've been reading about the 007Mk2 and I have a feeling this might be the perfect model for me, going to audition a 007mk2 and 700T this weekend.


----------



## droido256

martin778 said:


> _*You want to avoid exerting undue stress on the faces of the drivers. The membranes that seal both sides of the sandwich are dust covers intended to keep debris out of the assembly and are fairly thin and delicate. If they're punctured or torn, any number of problems can develop.*_
> 
> Let me tell you this - they are extremely fragile. Even a brush will punture them if hit under a certain angle. Stay away from any suction devices or brushes. If they are puntured or torn, you can pronounce the ESL unit dead as it 'will' start sizzling due to microscopic dust getting into it.
> 
> I've been reading about the 007Mk2 and I have a feeling this might be the perfect model for me, going to audition a 007mk2 and 700T this weekend.


Definitely glad to learn about these nuances of this alien to me driver type before I accidentally do something stupid. The L-300, and 700mk2 simply sound astounding. Don’t want anything to happen to them. Bad thing about them however is 1: losing sleep jammin way past when I should zonk out, and 2:….. now most my  other headphones just don’t sound as amazing as they used to 😅. Takes time to adjust to electrostatic sound signature though. They literally don’t sound like anything else.


----------



## Reima

This arrived today. An early birthday present. I am going to be using them with a SRM-1 MK2 until I can get all the parts to build a KGSSHV Carbon.


----------



## gregadd

I wonder what the late b-day present will be.


----------



## Swann36

Fidelity King said:


> How would you describe the L500 mk2?





pataburd said:


> Am really enjoying the SR-L500 Mk.2 (with Low Shelf PEQ), combined with the Mjolnir SRD-7<--Dussun T6<--Topping D50s:


Can i ask what are the 'blocks' you have on top of the amp an dac ?


----------



## Swann36

SludgeSwan said:


> Thanks for all your replies so far. I just phoned the man who would do the repair, and he said it might be that renewing the membrane on the left side might in the end result in an imbalance again, as then the right side might be quieter. No way to say before, so optimally both membranes would have to be renewed - which of course doubles the cost. At the moment, this seems a bit over the top to me, just to get rid of a relatively slight imbalance...
> 
> Any more tipps on how this could be resolved otherwise?


i'd just live with the imbalance and use the centering volume knob to deal with it but keep the repair guy's details in case in years to come it becomes a big problem 

i thought my 300LEs were imbalanced a bit but after asking others if they heard the same with negative results and a hearing test months later i discovered one ear hears less than the other ...so the cans are perfect but my ears aren't ... thank goodness for a stax energiser and the centering volume


----------



## pataburd

Swann36 said:


> Can i ask what are the 'blocks' you have on top of the amp an dac ?


Ebony blocks and Alan Maher RFI filters.


----------



## Swann36

KDS315 said:


> May I present the newest member of the high-amp.de family of amps for STAX - the ELECTRA, which I got to test, as I already own his SIRIUS transistor amp, as well as his ANTARES tube hybrid.
> 
> Technical data and measurements of ELECTRA is here at its maker, Andreas Rauenbuehler’s site:
> http://high-amp.de/html/elektra_offer.html
> ...



Looks fabulous ... by any chance does it have a split volume control like the Stax Amps ?   as my right ear needs a higher volume to match my left


----------



## KDS315

Nope, it does not, but usually a pre-amp allows that, als well as some streamers do. And ROON does, too.


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## pataburd (Mar 31, 2022)

Just sold my SR-007 Mk.1 (serial 70x . . . ) and KGSSHV.

The amp was a "one-off" that I bought from Mjolnir.  Due to grounding issues in my circuit (of which Birgir forewarned me), the amp hummed.  It hummed from a grounded outlet with a PowerVar conditioner.  Sometimes it would stop humming for long stretches, then start humming again.

Rather than pay more than I perhaps wanted in order to resolve the hum (i.e. pricey power conditioner or isolation transformer), I decided instead to sell.

Aside from the hum, undoubtedly the best headphone/earspeaker listening experience ever for me.

Did keep the SR-L500 Mk.2, though (which sounded exceptional with the KGSSHV, BTW), and might just pick up a 353X and call it a day.


----------



## KDS315

Sad to hear that, twas surely a nice system you had!


----------



## pataburd

In memoriam:


SR-007 Mk.1 with Mjolnir SRD-7 eStat Transformer and bel canto e.One c5i (very good).


SR-007 Mk.1 with Mjolnir (special) KGSSHV (even better).


Lone, amp-less (and transformer-less) SR-L500 Mk.2.


----------



## bigjako

Thanks for everyone’s help and I think @KDS315 you sealed the deal because tomorrow I pick up my NB-modded Eddie Current Electra.  I have an old SR-X with stator issues that I’m going to (potentially) sacrifice when I test it before I risk my Lambda NBs but I’m very excited to compare it with my Bottlehead Stat, which has such great synergy with the NBs - I may now end up selling both the Stat and the CCS modded 006t and roll with the dual-bias EC Electra and the Mjolnir Carbon as my end game totl estat setup.  

The Yggy is back from the shop and will have a listening session with it and a Musician Pegasus with another HeadFier this weekend. 

I’m not stanning my classified ads, but the CCS modded 006t is imo the best stax amp for $1k, @pataburd. Only the Electra (just as good, but much more tubey) or the Carbon beat it.  

Anyways thanks again for the schematics and I’ll report back later on how the NB Electra sounds.


----------



## martin778 (Apr 2, 2022)

Brought home a pair of Feb 2022 SR007mk2's with 700T amp.
First impression - yes, big like. I like that extra warmth on the midbass but with the treble still super detailed. Far cry from a dynamic/explosive sound but that's ok, makes it perfect for longer listening.
I wonder if the current 007 MK2 is different from the 2007 MK2?

The only thing I struggle a lot with, is how to set up the earpads properly, they feel so weird now.

Well, we know how it will finally end up, in a pair of X9000's of course.


----------



## ri_toast

not a great sign that you're already thinking about the step up. there was something about serial numbers and revisions but I can't point you to it, sorry. Not to mention that changes between MK2s isn't something you see much of. Not like the original vs later models.

the rotating ear pads threw me at first too. Its almost like they won't work but somehow always manage to sound great.
there's some interesting graphs here: reference


----------



## catscratch

Rotate the pads so that the seam points at your temple, and the fat part of the earpad is below and behind your ear. The lack of dynamics is from the 700T, a better amp will fix it.


----------



## ri_toast

catscratch said:


> Rotate the pads so that the seam points at your temple, and the fat part of the earpad is below and behind your ear. The lack of dynamics is from the 700T, a better amp will fix it.


I was under the impression that the Lambda series and 009s would be a better pairing with tubes and that 007s were best with solid state.


----------



## catscratch

It's more of a matter of power rather than tubes vs solid state. The 007 is among the hardest stats to drive and the Stax tube amps are notoriously underpowered without mods. They're fine for Lambdas, but for the 007 you really do need a more powerful amp than that.


----------



## hewlett168

martin778 said:


> Brought home a pair of Feb 2022 SR007mk2's with 700T amp.
> First impression - yes, big like. I like that extra warmth on the midbass but with the treble still super detailed. Far cry from a dynamic/explosive sound but that's ok, makes it perfect for longer listening.
> I wonder if the current 007 MK2 is different from the 2007 MK2?
> 
> ...


I do not think you actually need more power, only if you apply a large EQ in the bass and listen very loudly, but I doubt both are true.

What you could think about, if you dare, is the blu-tack mod: https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/3722-stax-sr-007mk2sr-007a-port-mod/

It really works wonders in the amount of control and quantity of bass.


----------



## martin778 (Apr 3, 2022)

I'd try to refrain from hardware-level mods on a 1 month old pair of 007 yet and I'm already happy I got rid of the Stax fart of the Lambda's

Regarding the upgrade to a higher model, you know how it goes - the more you scratch, the more you itch. I am aware that there might be many more better amps out there but from a practical point of view, a full Stax setup has a much better resale value, warranty and so on.

I'd have to play around with the pads, what threw me off the most was the lack of the pivot adjustment on the earcups themselves - the X9000 do seem to have it.


----------



## nepherte

martin778 said:


> Brought home a pair of Feb 2022 SR007mk2's with 700T amp..
> 
> Well, we know how it will finally end up, in a pair of X9000's of course.


I’d hang on the 007 for a couple months before even thinking of getting the X9000. It might surprise you. The 007 is still my go to headphone.


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## eee1111 (Apr 3, 2022)

nepherte said:


> I’d hang on the 007 for a couple months before even thinking of getting the X9000. It might surprise you. The 007 is still my go to headphone.


the X9K are a lot better than the 007a

but nothing is 6,000usd good

I agree that the 007 still has value after the X9K. the 007MK1 is amazing. The 007mk2 are better than they are given credit for.


----------



## ri_toast

eee1111 said:


> the X9K are a lot better than the 007a
> 
> but nothing is 6,000usd good
> 
> I agree that the 007 still has value after the X9K. the 007MK1 is amazing. The 007mk2 are better than they are given credit for.


eee, that's quite a collection of top tier headphones in your profile. There's no wrong answer but what spends the most time in use and which the least? Just wondering.


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## eee1111 (Apr 3, 2022)

ri_toast said:


> eee, that's quite a collection of top tier headphones in your profile. There's no wrong answer but what spends the most time in use and which the least? Just wondering.


Theyre all great even the LCD X

Im going to get rid of either the TC or Susvara. Maybe.

Every single one of them are doing something in their sound that others are not doing. If I was going to part ways right now it would be the TC. That opinion might change after I try it with the CFA3


----------



## nepherte

eee1111 said:


> the X9K are a lot better than the 007a


Granted, I don’t own the x9000 yet, but I heard it for a couple hours in a quiet listening environment. My initial impression is that it’s not a  blanket victory for x9000. There are areas where I think 007 is better. My opinion might change once I have more time with it… but for now I stick with it.


----------



## eee1111

nepherte said:


> Granted, I don’t own the x9000 yet, but I heard it for a couple hours in a quiet listening environment. My initial impression is that it’s not a  blanket victory for x9000. There are areas where I think 007 is better. My opinion might change once I have more time with it… but for now I stick with it.


It’s definitely a blanket victory to these ears


----------



## buzzlulu

eee1111 said:


> It’s definitely a blanket victory to these ears


Same here - Agreed


----------



## nepherte

I suppose I hear differently, but that’s alright. It’s not a matter of right or wrong. Just shows that you need to hear it for yourself.


----------



## martin778 (Apr 3, 2022)

Well, I seem to have a serious ergonomic problem with the 007...can't find any position in which they are comfortable. Lack of pivot on the earcups seems to be the dealbreaker here.
Tried turning the pads around and having the thickest part on the back seems to work best but they keep pulling themselves upwards on my head and the leather pad is already touching the metal bars on top....they are too small?!


----------



## lsantista (Apr 3, 2022)

same here, there is nothing to compare really
actually I think L500, L700, 009S (heard only briefly, twice) all sound much more similar to the X9000. But to me the X9000 corrects all the shortcomings of the lambdas and improves some of the things I like about their character so much already.
my 007A seria 13xx sounds a lot different, not much to my liking to be honest, it sounds a bit odd and wrong. I dont think it is something with my unit or serial batch, since to me it is still better than a LCD2 for instance, and admitedly offers something different from other Stax. It is just that its timber doesn't go well with most of what I listen to, specially classical, and I find its bass punchy in a good way but nothing to write home about, contrary to so many reports everywhere that it has one of the best ever bass among e-stats.

The mjolnir carbon did improve things in a meaningfull way and I agree to comments above that it pairs better with solid state whereas the others mentioned pair fine, maybe better with tubes.
And Im not saying the X9000 is perfect, but to me is by far the best Ive listened to, including most speaker setups I can remember (it SOUNDS more speaker like, but it still feels like a headphone though)


----------



## ri_toast

martin778 said:


> Well, I seem to have a serious ergonomic problem with the 007...can't find any position in which they are comfortable. Lack of pivot on the earcups seems to be the dealbreaker here.
> Tried turning the pads around and having the thickest part on the back seems to work best but they keep pulling themselves upwards on my head and the leather pad is already touching the metal bars on top....they are too small?!


I saw a you tube video where the modder put new holes in the elastic to move the headphones away from the band; seemed simple. Even the new bands aren't cheap. 
It's almost like they designed a headphone that would sound great, fit wrong.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Apr 3, 2022)

nepherte said:


> Granted, I don’t own the x9000 yet, but I heard it for a couple hours in a quiet listening environment. My initial impression is that it’s not a  blanket victory for x9000. There are areas where I think 007 is better. My opinion might change once I have more time with it… but for now I stick with it.



Yea I would say a short listen just isn't enough, and that's really the problem with short auditions impressions. You really need about a week, but even a few nights in home is a huge step up from a single audition. But I know that's not always possible.

But yea, the x9000 is also a pretty clear landslide against the 007 imo. Although the bass of the 007 will always be impressive.

I'm also a pretty huge 009 fanatic, and despite it being less forward, warmer and a bit more relaxed--things that all aren't my preferences; it has a clear edge against it as well.


----------



## nepherte

number1sixerfan said:


> But yea, the x9000 is also a pretty clear landslide against the 007 imo. Although the bass of the 007 will always be impressive.


It wasn't necessarily the bass that was lacking. I found the 007 had better tonality. I would say that x9000 beats 007 in other departments, it's just that tonality is a rather big deal for me + it's not like the 007 is a slouch either in the other departments.


number1sixerfan said:


> I'm also a pretty huge 009 fanatic


I guess by now it's also obvious I prefer 007 over 009


----------



## number1sixerfan

nepherte said:


> It wasn't necessarily the bass that was lacking. I found the 007 had better tonality. I would say that x9000 beats 007 in other departments, it's just that tonality is a rather big deal for me + it's not like the 007 is a slouch either in the other departments.
> 
> I guess by now it's also obvious I prefer 007 over 009



That's certainly fair. Tonality is more of a personal, preferential thing--and I think a bit easier to be picked up quickly. Is it that you prefer the more liquid thickness of the 007? What is it with the tone/timbre for you? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts because it's probably closer in this regard to the 007 than it is the 009. (although honestly it feels as if it pulls from elements from both)


----------



## martin778

What is the general warranty period on Stax HP's? 
I've read that the X9000 again has the Stax fart issue, is this true?


----------



## alegar

martin778 said:


> ¿Cuál es el período de garantía general de Stax HP?
> He leído que el X9000 nuevamente tiene el problema del pedo Stax, ¿es esto cierto?


Llevo tres dias con el X9K y te puedo decir que tiene muy poco pedo, aun apretandolos a conciencia, el 009S tiene mucho mas pedo, solo tienes que abrir la boca cuando lo tienes puesto y aparece . Por cierto, el X9K me tiene alucinado.


----------



## lostrockets

anyone have experience using 6sn7 tubes with adapters in their 6FQ7/6CG7 sockets ? if so, which amp and how'd it affect the sound?


----------



## padam

nepherte said:


> It wasn't necessarily the bass that was lacking. I found the 007 had better tonality. I would say that x9000 beats 007 in other departments, it's just that tonality is a rather big deal for me + it's not like the 007 is a slouch either in the other departments.
> 
> I guess by now it's also obvious I prefer 007 over 009


I agree.


number1sixerfan said:


> But yea, the x9000 is also a pretty clear landslide against the 007 imo. Although the bass of the 007 will always be impressive.


I don't agree and it is the bass that I actually find as the main weakness in the 007 Mk1. There is plenty of it, it's just not nearly as high quality as the midrange or treble and I am not sure how much power it really needs, if it is possible to fix it "completely". Same with the softness, just a softer sound in general, but I can get adjusted to that.
But it is a sound that feels more like a "living creature" as opposed to a sound that is "carefully crafted" and extremely detailed yet, also "soulless", less natural in comparison. Still a major improvement over the ear-bleeding nature of the 009 or L300LE. (I can see why people find them appealing, I just can't listen to music like this.)


----------



## number1sixerfan (Apr 5, 2022)

padam said:


> I don't agree and it is the bass that I actually find as the main weakness in the 007 Mk1. There is plenty of it, it's just not nearly as high quality as the midrange or treble and I am not sure how much power it really needs, if it is possible to fix it "completely". Same with the softness, just a softer sound in general, but I can get adjusted to that.
> But it is a sound that feels more like a "living creature" as opposed to a sound that is "carefully crafted" and extremely detailed yet, also "soulless", less natural in comparison. Still a major improvement over the ear-bleeding nature of the 009 or L300LE. (I can see why people find them appealing, I just can't listen to music like this.)



I think we may just disagree here, but to clarify, when I mention landslide, I'm talking about technical ability. That's usually what I refer to because it's more objective. Overall tonality and presentation is far more subjective and I totally get if someone prefers the 007 in that regard over anything. Oh and on the bass point with the 007, totally agree--it definitely isn't as accurate, but it has the quantity and impact many people hate other stats for not having.

But technically speaking, the 009 is a clear step above (albiet not by some huge margin) to the 007. The x9000 is a clear step above the 009 (and again, not by a really huge margin). That is very clear to me, at least in my opinion. Detail, soundstage, layering and separation, accuracy.. all a step above.

I do think the x9000 has more of a natural timbre and less harshness than the 009 does at times, but I get if someone still prefers the 007 over either given how unique it is or if it's their favorite, as each of these are different. I do think the x9000 is going to be a better fit for people coming from (as a favorite) the 007 vs. the 009.


----------



## padam

number1sixerfan said:


> I think we may just disagree here, but to clarify, when I mention landslide, I'm talking about technical ability. That's usually what I refer to because it's more objective. Overall tonality and presentation is far more subjective and I totally get if someone prefers the 007 in that regard over anything. Oh and on the bass point with the 007, totally agree--it definitely isn't as accurate, but it has the quantity and impact many people hate other stats for not having.
> 
> But technically speaking, the 009 is a clear step above (albiet not by some huge margin) to the 007. The x9000 is a clear step above the 009 (and again, not by a really huge margin). That is very clear to me, at least in my opinion. Detail, soundstage, layering and separation, accuracy.. all a step above.
> 
> I do think the x9000 has more of a natural timbre and less harshness than the 009 does at times, but I get if someone still prefers the 007 over either given how unique it is or if it's their favorite, as each of these are different. I do think the x9000 is going to be a better fit for people coming from (as a favorite) the 007 vs. the 009.


I guess I am way behind the curve now, as the term "natural sound" has been taken out of consideration for a long time, replaced by "objectively measurable technical ability".

And no, even "technically" I do not consider the X9000 a landslide above the 007. It is just a different presentation, that was described in those YT videos (that got instantly questioned...)
Just because something is layered or separated differently or makes details stand out more, it does not necessarily mean that it is superior. Just a different way or representing a stage in a headphone, it will work with a certain type of music while it won't work in a different type of music.

The SR-X Mk3 has "no soundstage", and yet with some music it simply renders the space _better _than those big Staxes (meaning: in a more natural, less artificial way, not adding space which is not there, eg. creating an "artificial virtual layer") and presents the instruments more convincingly as well.


----------



## number1sixerfan

padam said:


> I guess I am way behind the curve now, as the term "natural sound" has been taken out of consideration for a long time, replaced by "objectively measurable technical ability".
> 
> And no, even "technically" I do not consider the X9000 a landslide above the 007. It is just a different presentation, that was described in those YT videos (that got instantly questioned...)
> Just because something is layered or separated differently or makes details stand out more, it does not necessarily mean that it is superior. Just a different way or representing a stage in a headphone, it will work with a certain type of music while it won't work in a different type of music.



Naturalness of the sound has always mattered to me, but it's just extremely subjective. Just like tonality and presentation. 

I respect your opinion and I think we just have different POVs. In my opinion, if a headphone can do something that another clearly cannot--i.e. more resolving, more expansive soundstaging with more precise imaging, etc.. then it's technically better. If we don't assess those things and simply refer to it as a different presentation, then I think there's really no point or ability to evaluate and compare headphones against others. That's why I try to separate what's more subjective and what isn't.. although overall it's all clearly subjective--which again is why I respect your POV.


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## padam (Apr 5, 2022)

If it "came for free", I would gladly accept that as being objectively better.
However, for me, there is an inherent byproduct with this type of "microscopic" presentation. Not only is is even more "directly" revealing, but also lighter, more ethereal, which I consider to be not a good thing on a lot of recordings. I do not like the idea of choosing recordings that are suited to this type of presentation (where musicality plays second fiddle after clarity and detail), it should not work that way, I would rather have less of this for the sake of being less picky.

I guess there was already a big "split" regarding the 007 vs 009, maybe fans of the latter might like this further progression, but I think Stax could do some more tweaking, which is odd to think about, when the price is already this high up.

I also do not know the definition of 'more precise imaging', if for me a stage and imaging in a headphone is always artificial, and it is only subjective which one is more to a listener's taste (depending on how the recording was made, e.g. minimally-miked, multi-channel, etc.)
The separation in the X9000 is certainly even stronger than before. But strong to a point, where it can "slice" the recording to pieces, and that's not a good thing, e.g. not superior in my book.
Same with the speed, faster in the X9000, but is it better? Not necessarily, this lightspeed can feel a bit spiky at times, which is a lot more annoying than having less speed but none of this weirdness.
When listening in complete darkness, the 007 can do several things the X9000 cannot.
Slower meaning less ethereal (which is better for me)
Has less width and air but more depth 3D and cohesiveness
More impact (in the treble as well, not just in bass)
And it has a "defined, more characterful" tone, which is not nearly as dry e.g. not as troublesome to match with other components.
Also works much better at low volumes, e.g. a bit more protective against hearing damage, I found the volume adjustment on the X9000 'more tricky'.
Only the bass is a big flaw to me and a big question mark regarding amping or other possible earpad-related mods (I also do not like the fit very much, although it may get improved soon)
While I cannot point any big particular flaw in the X9000 the same way as I can with the 007, it just sounds weird on a lot of occasions next to it.


----------



## eee1111

padam said:


> If it "came for free", I would gladly accept that as being objectively better.
> However, for me, there is an inherent byproduct with this type of "microscopic" presentation. Not only is is even more "directly" revealing, but also lighter, more ethereal, which I consider to be not a good thing on a lot of recordings. I do not like the idea of choosing recordings that are suited to this type of presentation (where musicality plays second fiddle after clarity and detail), it should not work that way, I would rather have less of this for the sake of being less picky.
> 
> I guess there was already a big "split" regarding the 007 vs 009, maybe fans of the latter might like this further progression, but I think Stax could do some more tweaking, which is odd to think about, when the price is already this high up.
> ...


Like others have said the x9k isn’t an evolution of the 007 it is it’s own thing. If you gotta compare it than say it’s the next step of the 009. It takes the ability to really dig into recordings and it takes the presentation back a little.

It’s not recessed. The detail is all there. But the presentation has you back a bit. And this is in no way a bad or negative imo.

I’m trying to understand your past couple posts. I disagree with about 40% of what I’m reading. It’s got the speed it’s got bass it’s got the analytic features. The attack and decay of Stax is there. The bass is great on these. I A B them with 007 and there isn’t a decisive winner in the bass department.

Driver is 20% larger than 009. It’s delivering everything effortlessly to these ears.


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## padam (Apr 6, 2022)

eee1111 said:


> Like others have said the x9k isn’t an evolution of the 007 it is it’s own thing. If you gotta compare it than say it’s the next step of the 009. It takes the ability to really dig into recordings and it takes the presentation back a little.
> 
> It’s not recessed. The detail is all there. But the presentation has you back a bit. And this is in no way a bad or negative imo.
> 
> ...


Just because it is not an evolution it does not mean that it cannot be compared against it directly, especially if it was someone's personal reference before. If it was, then the X9000 is simply an inferior headphone, because it is still far away from it, and the things where it is superior don't matter that much (personally,, I simply can't value more detail if it takes the pleasure away form listening to music rather than analysing it).

It's ok that we don't agree.
I only added my own thoughts, because just like when those youtube videos were released, I didn't like anyone stating a preference and getting response like: "you didn't listen to them enough", "your chain is not good", "not the right type of music", etc. etc.
If you look at other places, you can find enough opinions on that to conclude that people who do not think this headphone is the best thing they've done don't have broken ears, they just observe different things.

Just to put it into a different personal bias perspective, I have this long list of Stax headphones (in chronological order, not the order of preference) which I find more musical, more enjoyable than the X9000 a lot of the times.
I am not saying these are better, I am just saying that it is very surprising to me, that these don't get "owned" by this new flagship, irrespective of how much they cost. And, apart from the Omega, one could collect the whole shebang with cash to spare (for let's a say, a good aftermarket amp) instead of an X9000.

SR-X Mk3
SR-Lambda
SR-Gamma Pro
SR-Sigma Pro
SR-Omega
SR-Lambda Nova Signature
SR-007 Mk1

And these are the ones where I can say I would not choose these over the SR-X9000.
But if we consider how much the Lambda Pro would cost, it is still very good, and I might put them into the other list instead. Lambda Sig is another one that can sound really good and more soulful than some others, but it is objectively very bright.

SR-Lambda Pro
SR-Lambda Signature
SR-404
SR-009
SR-L300 Limited


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## eee1111 (Apr 6, 2022)

padam said:


> Just because it is not an evolution it does not mean that it cannot be compared against it directly, especially if it was someone's personal reference before. If it was, then the X9000 is simply an inferior headphone, because it is still far away from it, and the things where it is superior don't matter that much (personally,, I simply can't value more detail if it takes the pleasure away form listening to music rather than analysing it).
> 
> It's ok that we don't agree.
> I only added my own thoughts, because just like when those youtube videos were released, I didn't like anyone stating a preference and getting response like: "you didn't listen to them enough", "your chain is not good", "not the right type of music", etc. etc.
> ...



I got the 007mk1 right here alongside the x9k. I simply don’t agree with a large amount of your opinions. 

It’s one thing to dismiss large amounts of opinions. It’s another to say your opinion is superior.

I’m actually extremely happy with the sound of these. They are absolutely top tier and we can thank hifiman for the extreme price. But that’s another topic. Anyone who has a carbon or bhse or Wes will/should love these


----------



## padam

I never suggested that anywhere, I even stated that it is personal bias, which everyone has, and there are other people who agree with me, they just don't add that opinion right here. If I found the X9000 to be superior, I could sell a whole lot else instead. It would be simpler, really.

But this hostility is exactly the type of reaction why it is pointless to share any more of my personal opinions, as it will not lead to a normal, civilised discussion.
And for that reason, I'm out =)


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## eee1111 (Apr 6, 2022)

padam said:


> I never suggested that anywhere, I even stated that it is personal bias, which everyone has, and there are other people who agree with me, they just don't add that opinion right here. If I found the X9000 to be superior, I could sell a whole lot else instead. It would be simpler, really.
> 
> But this hostility is exactly the type of reaction why it is pointless to share any more of my personal opinions, as it will not lead to a normal, civilised discussion.
> And for that reason, I'm out =)


Get those people to write those opinions. Don’t make up phantoms. 

Look I’m sorry if I come off mean or hostile because your opinion is negative. I’m trying to understand these opinions when my experience so far has been so drastically different than yours. Just seemed odd to me.


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## padam (Apr 6, 2022)

Why it is even necessary for anyone to "back" their opinions if they are in the minority, that is what annoyed me about labelling that guy in those YT videos. I thought that it is the whole point and not everyone nodding in agreement.

It is just one single opinion that carries no more or less weight than another one and everyone can decide which ones to take into consideration. Full stop.

I just stated all the other models I've used as an insight - or maybe recommendation, if someone listens to this model, or let's say an SR009, does not like it and then assumes that all Staxes (estats, etc.) present sound like this, which is not true.
Does the chain matters? Yes, of course.
Does that provide a completely different experience? I have not noticed this much, only with the 007 and amps, but so far I didn't really change as much as I expected, always very much a 007.
There are definitely some more synergistic pairings that are preferable (or others that simply don't work very well), but I think that it is only the point on that letter i and the headphone is still the defining element. Only exception was vinyl, which definitely sounded a lot different (really brought out the best of a Lambda Signature, it was designed around that era after all).

I may have made a mistake of already trying to research every few opinion that had been written or said before I listened to the X9000, and a handful of those few were already somewhat reserved, and I had set my expectations too high before that with the Omega naming scheme in the product video, etc., I don't know.
Here is the most recent detailed assessment
https://ptthito.com/headphone/m-1648707938-a-cb7/
Again, it's not that it's bad, it just has flaws (like anything else), I would like more involvement, more weight and fullness, a wetter tone, more dependable/less picky, less analytical, etc.

That type "more technical" POV that other people are looking from was already outlined in one of my previous post.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-x9000.959852/post-16780222

On its best moments, with the right type of music, it does sound like that and then it is quite jaw-droppingly amazing, I won't be debating that.

It is just didn't add that there was also a slight bit of irony embedded in all of this, because I also didn't find this "everything dialled up to eleven" sound that fun or natural to listen to with a lot of other music (also my problem with the SR009), and I also don't see the point of buying it and trying to dial it back down again, when that different type of sound is already there in other models.
But of course I didn't add that to avoid generating controversy, labelled as a troll, etc. the usual stuff.


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## eee1111 (Apr 6, 2022)

padam said:


> It is just one single opinion that carries no more or less weight than another one and everyone can decide which ones to take into consideration. Full stop.


You’re right

But when people respond and just simply don’t agree and cite how they don’t agree it’s not a big deal and definitely not worth getting all upset. Any response you got was a direct result of people not agreeing. Not because they have an agenda against you. 

I’ve written a lot on this site in comparison to other headphones and how I feel about the X9K. I think it’s fair to say I’m very pleased with the sound lol.

I reach for the 007 all the time and just don’t agree with a lot of the opinions you hold. 

I love the staging of the x9k


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## nepherte

eee1111 said:


> Get those people to write those opinions. Don’t make up phantoms.


One of these ghosts says hi.


----------



## number1sixerfan

padam said:


> It's ok that we don't agree.
> I only added my own thoughts, because just like when those youtube videos were released, I didn't like anyone stating a preference and getting response like: "you didn't listen to them enough", "your chain is not good", "not the right type of music", etc. etc.
> If you look at other places, you can find enough opinions on that to conclude that people who do not think this headphone is the best thing they've done don't have broken ears, they just observe different things.



On my end, I totally agree with the first statement. I have no problems with your perspective, we just talked through why we think the way we do. Also a lot of your points seem to stem around the more subjective aspects of sound, so I totally expect it simply to come down to preference. But regardless, it doesn't matter how or why, you like what you like.  

The only thing I wanted to mention here is regarding the "you didn't listen to them enough". This in my opinion is totally relevant. You see a lot of people that listen to new headphones for two hours (and often in meet conditions) and then make really definitive statements, which is a bit of a mistake. There's a big difference between hearing something for a few hours and having them in house for even a timeframe as short as a week. This is even more important if you're coming from a favorite headphone that is voiced different. 

But that's not always possible for people, I get that. But I have seen countless time and time again where these opinions change drastically over even a weeks amount of time as people get better acquainted with the gear. You can see this happening in any one of the summit fi threads as people buy new gear.. and it has nothing to do with the x9000. (but agree that the other two you mentioned are over-indexed)


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## bigjako (Apr 6, 2022)

Happy to report that the surgery on the Eddie Current Electra worked out really well and I'm able to listen to my Lambda NBs on that unit now.  Before that amp surgery, my Bottlehead Stat had the best synergy with the NBs but that Electra takes it up a notch - very similar sound signature, but the Electra blows out the soundstage and separation rather significantly.  The Stat is still an amazing amp, but it's a little more closed in and intimate.  Interestingly, the Stat worked with a wider variety of cans than the Electra.  I think to a large degree it's just a question of whether I wanted to be first row/onstage or 10th row.  The Stat is a work of art by artists I admire but it's for sale to a better home now.

The ES-1a loses too much on the Electra.  It sounds great, don't get me wrong, but when I compare it on either the Carbon or the CCS'd 006t it just loses too much.  I don't know why, though I'd read someone on here who said the ES-1a didn't pair well with tubes and that is likely at play.  Still, the ES-1a actually worked better on the Stat than it does on the Electra. So my synergistic pairings are now:

All Lambdas (Pro and Normal Bias): EC Electra.  I'm sure the NBs would sound nice on the Carbon, but it's not an option.   See below for some thoughts on the L300s (LE and not) on the Carbon.
ES-1a: Carbon.  Honestly, this has got to be one of the top-5 pairings in estat world, in my personal and subjective opinion.  I have not heard an X9000 but have heard 007s and 009s on a BHSE multiple times, and this is right there.  The transparency, the clarity as well as the slam and sub-bass are TOTL to me.  The ES-1a sounded stunted-but-very-musical on the Stat, but on the Electra... it doesn't sound bad, but I'm more aware of what I'm missing than what is still there, if that makes sense.  The L300 LE sounds GREAT on the Carbon, but I prefer it on the Electra - the tubes round it out and fills in the gaps, without sacrificing accuracy or transparency.  The ES-1a just sounds GREATER.  I have a Frankenstein L300 (not LE) with the Socas Padmod and partial blu-tak and that is an interesting combo - it's much heavier in the low end and feels more like a planar (LCD-2C, specifically) which is a lot of fun sometimes. So in other words, the Carbon works well with everything but it makes the ES-1a sing.
I also signed up for the Qobuz/Deezer/Roon trials, with local FLACs, and that's been a major upgrade over streaming.  For now I'm riding high, this sh** is near-perfect, but I fear I'll grow accustomed to this lifestyle and start sniffing out 007s soon. I'm also scared to listen to the X9000s for what existential crisis it will spawn, so I think I'll distract myself hunting for a Glenn OTL or a DNA amp for the Aeolus or window shop an Atrium to distract me.


----------



## padam

number1sixerfan said:


> On my end, I totally agree with the first statement. I have no problems with your perspective, we just talked through why we think the way we do. Also a lot of your points seem to stem around the more subjective aspects of sound, so I totally expect it simply to come down to preference. But regardless, it doesn't matter how or why, you like what you like.
> 
> The only thing I wanted to mention here is regarding the "you didn't listen to them enough". This in my opinion is totally relevant. You see a lot of people that listen to new headphones for two hours (and often in meet conditions) and then make really definitive statements, which is a bit of a mistake. There's a big difference between hearing something for a few hours and having them in house for even a timeframe as short as a week. This is even more important if you're coming from a favorite headphone that is voiced different.
> 
> But that's not always possible for people, I get that. But I have seen countless time and time again where these opinions change drastically over even a weeks amount of time as people get better acquainted with the gear. You can see this happening in any one of the summit fi threads as people buy new gear.. and it has nothing to do with the x9000. (but agree that the other two you mentioned are over-indexed)


To be honest, I don't understand while those other points can be considered "objective."

If you only emphasise strengths and only have a "slight touch" on weaknesses (which is how most audio reviews are written to make you want that product, obviously), that is simply less useful information. I know the good points of the X9000 (and have read about the CRBN etc.) and I can find those opinions way more easily than any negative ones due to enthusiastic, positive nature that almost anybody likes more.
It's just what people want to hear who are interested in purchasing the product and feel happy, or make people less annoyed that own the product and get triggered if anything negative is pointed out, then it is "only subjective".
I've listed the group of headphones that I find more musically involving that's somehow missing from the X9000 a lot of the times, the technical (objective?) differences became less important to me (big soundstage, firm separation is different. not better. imho). Or I would say it presents itself in an odd way depending on the recording, just because it is more revealing yet smoothened out, it does not mean more pleasing or more natural. And the exact reason why I shared that list is because I compared several times. If I just listened to the X9000 I might have said:






because I would just get accustomed to it (that's not true for a few things that immediately found odd on first listen, with those previous opinions unfortunately already in mind, it didn't really grab me, only managed to do it occasionally, while others manage grab me, because they have a particular character that I find appealing  and at least they _have a definable character_). Maybe it's different for other people but listening to music and comparisons are just not the same thing and it can actually be quite detrimental to the experience, when I listen to a particular track and I had this feeling that "ok ok, but I feel it might sound a bit wrong next to the other" and after I did that switch, my "fears" were unfortunately confirmed.

So while I have these headphones that I own and (mostly) love, it does not mean I could not deliver a Michael Scott one line review, and





each and every one of them, and hopefully, over time that will help to minimize and improve the setup. If anyone can do that on a chain he considers as "perfect", he or she can judge more objectively than others, despite personal bias.

Although it can be a weird feeling to know let's say it's a chain costing five-figures that you have spent so much of your time, energy and money to meticulously change and tweak for years, decades, and yet it still sucks in some ways. So you would rather "be a ghost" that quietly posts in the classifieds after hyping it up rather than post about the reasons, be the "negative person" and get potentially attacked for it by people who don't agree with you. It's pointless self burn.

It would be so much simpler to just read recommendations/reviews, buy that one, love it at first sight, stop looking at other options, even quit forums completely (probably the most important point that many people have already done) and live happily ever after. (Small point about these new products is that constant never ending possibility of an improved follow-up model that is "better", and then the previous one getting judged differently immediately and slashing in value - luckily they can't even fulfil pre-orders at the moment). But marriage isn't that simple either - at least you can get as many headphones and change them as much you want and have arguments about them for as long as you exist  .


----------



## droido256

Question, the L-700 mk2 I have, on the outside of the stator is this star shaped structure, with a hexagonal ring in the center that isn’t present on the L-300……. What is it? Decoration? Support structure? Part of the sound generation? Just curious.


----------



## martin778

Looks like something to add extra rigidity.


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## martin778 (Apr 7, 2022)

> I also signed up for the Qobuz/Deezer/Roon trials, with local FLACs, and that's been a major upgrade over streaming.  For now I'm riding high, this sh** is near-perfect, but I fear I'll grow accustomed to this lifestyle and start sniffing out 007s soon. I'm also scared to listen to the X9000s for what existential crisis it will spawn, so I think I'll distract myself hunting for a Glenn OTL or a DNA amp for the Aeolus or window shop an Atrium to distract me.


I'm too lazy for this, just ordering the T8000 and looking for X9000's. Then I can at least know there is no further upgrade path available  

Do you guys have any tips for quickly swapping HP's / cables between the amp and source? I suppose the SRM won't like unplugging the cables when it's on, not wanting to blow up the input stage.


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## number1sixerfan (Apr 7, 2022)

padam said:


> To be honest, I don't understand while those other points can be considered "objective."
> 
> If you only emphasise strengths and only have a "slight touch" on weaknesses (which is how most audio reviews are written to make you want that product, obviously), that is simply less useful information. I know the good points of the X9000 (and have read about the CRBN etc.) and I can find those opinions way more easily than any negative ones due to enthusiastic, positive nature that almost anybody likes more.
> It's just what people want to hear who are interested in purchasing the product and feel happy, or make people less annoyed that own the product and get triggered if anything negative is pointed out, then it is "only subjective".
> I've listed the group of headphones that I find more musically involving that's somehow missing from the X9000 a lot of the times, the technical (objective?) differences became less important to me (big soundstage, firm separation is different. not better. imho). Or I would say it presents itself in an odd way depending on the recording, just because it is more revealing yet smoothened out, it does not mean more pleasing or more natural. And the exact reason why I shared that list is because I compared several times. If I just listened to the X9000 I might have said:



I just mean that there are certain aspects of the music that are totally preferential. Every headphone is either bright or warm to a degree or neutral--whether you prefer one of the three is totally preferential. Same thing for forwardness/positioning. In comparison, resolution, expansive soundstaging, imaging and layering, strong bass performance etc. are all a bit less subjective. Again, we don't have agree, but there has to be some reasonable baseline in which we compare headphones or else none of the conversation matters.

I don't argue that headphones are "better" due to tonality, presentation, forwardness (or lackthereof) because it will just totally come down to the user. But many prefer headphones that are better in the technical categories than others (except for extremes like the 009 which leans a bit too heavy analytically, which steers some ppl away)--and i have certainly found this to be true in Summit-Fi.

The reason you don't hear much negativity about the x9000 is because it performs better (doesn't have glaring weaknesses and has higher technical capability) than most headphones out there. The same is true for the HFM Shangri-La Sr. For me it has absolutely nothing to do with post-purchase rationalization (bias)--I think my impressions on the LCD-5, which costs nearly as much is a reference here (also, we have to acknowledge that bias is a two way street, it impacts people impressions and POVs that haven't and would prefer not to spend extra money on gear as well). But I have no problem with your impressions and they may be very relevant for other users coming from the 007. We simply disagree when it comes to whether or not the x9000 is better, and that's ok lol


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## eee1111 (Apr 7, 2022)

padam said:


> To be honest, I don't understand while those other points can be considered "objective."
> 
> I know the good points of the X9000 (and have read about the CRBN etc.) and I can find those opinions way more easily than any negative ones due to enthusiastic, positive nature that almost anybody likes more.
> It's just what people want to hear who are interested in purchasing the product and feel happy, or make people less annoyed that own the product and get triggered if anything negative is pointed out, then it is "only subjective".
> I've listed the group of headphones that I find more musically involving that's somehow missing from the X9000 a lot of the times, the technical (objective?) differences became less important to me (big soundstage, firm separation is different. not better. imho). Or I would say it presents itself in an odd way depending on the recording, just because it is more revealing yet smoothened out, it does not mean more pleasing or more natural. And the exact reason why I shared that list is because I compared several times.


At any given time you can go into any topic and see people have negative comments. They post their opinions. They move on.

Look at the lcd5 it came and there were a ton of people who had issues and didn’t buy or bought and sold and made their opinions WELL know in the topic. All the while other people in that topic bought it and immediately loved what they were hearing.

There are not that many X9K out there. The fact that there are a ton of positive impressions this early should be an indication that while you have a negative opinion it’s not worth being upset that you’re reading lots of positive ones.

The more time goes by I’m able to compare what I own and the X9K. I really like the X9K enough I’m contemplating selling some other headphones.


----------



## padam

eee1111 said:


> There are not that many X9K out there. The fact that there are a ton of positive impressions this early should be an indication that while you have a negative opinion it’s not worth being upset that you’re reading lots of positive ones.


lol why would I be upset in any way about any positive opinions.
I already stated long before why I would not want to say anything about this headphone.
People are getting called out for no reason at all, other than sharing their honest opinions.
I can only say about opinions like this one that I can only nod in agreement.
Some more valuable thoughts about new TOL models in general can be found here.


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## eee1111 (Apr 7, 2022)

padam said:


> lol why would I be upset in any way about any positive opinions.
> I already stated long before why I would not want to say anything about this headphone.
> People are getting called out for no reason at all, other than sharing their honest opinions.
> I can only say about opinions like this one that I can only nod in agreement.
> Some more valuable thoughts about new TOL models in general can be found here.


Kinda sound angry upset

With those memes and all that writing about not understanding others opinions

But I could be wrong lol
Feels like we are goin in circles here


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## catscratch

Meh the only way to not make people upset is to not post anything at all, or maybe only post positive things. But that's of no use to anybody. So go ahead and say what you really think, and if it ends up stepping on some toes, so be it. I made some people upset with my negative comments on the Utopia, and what happened as a result of that? Absolutely nothing. Everything's still fine. Besides, as a fan of the 007 I value the perspective of someone else who has similar preferences.

Regarding objectivity and consistency in impressions, that's a topic for a 3 hour rant, but in general data seems to be pointing to people generally hearing similarly up to about 2khz, then after that our hearing starts to diverge. Between 2-4khz differences start to emerge, and past 4khz it's a total crapshoot with many people hearing the treble very differently. And it only gets worse with age. Also, even though under 2khz impressions are more consistent, there are differences in preference, so while we might be able to listen to something and agree objectively on what we heard with a relatively high consistency, there's no guarantee that we'll like what we heard the same.

Does this mean the hobby is entirely subjective? No, of course not. But there are limitations to the reliability of listener impressions and we need to be aware of them. When judging someone else's impressions I always ask: what else do they like? Do they like the same headphones as I do, or listen for similar things? And when I find someone who likes what I like, then I pay attention. And - here's the real kicker - there's nothing personal in that.


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## protoss

How to remove the 009S earpads? 

Do I have to unscrew the screws inside the drivers?


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## droido256 (Apr 8, 2022)

After listening to both the L-300, and L-700 through both the D-10, and 252s for a while now. Yep no going back 😆. Metal on these things is a whole other experience. Def glad I decided to spring for them. Wish I had sooner.


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## padam

protoss said:


> How to remove the 009S earpads?
> 
> Do I have to unscrew the screws inside the drivers?


"It is not a complicated operation. The inner mesh must be removed. Remove the six screws and the earpad is released. Installing a new one takes a little more time. These little screws are hard to screw in."


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## protoss

That's a horrible operation! STAX wants amateurs to put a screwdriver inside the cups to remove 4 screws. Without damaging the drivers, getting dust inside and hopefully not doing anything else to them! They must fire the earpad developers. This is some trashy operation. Could of kept the same earpad design as the 007.


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## bearFNF

protoss said:


> That's a horrible operation! STAX wants amateurs to put a screwdriver inside the cups to remove 4 screws. Without damaging the drivers, getting dust inside and hopefully not doing anything else to them! They must fire the earpad developers. This is some trashy operation. Could of kept the same earpad design as the 007.


LOL, no, what Stax probably wants is for us to either leave them as is and not mess with them or send them to Stax repair shop to have the job done by their technicians.


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## Tugbars (Apr 8, 2022)

droido256 said:


> Question, the L-700 mk2 I have, on the outside of the stator is this star shaped structure, with a hexagonal ring in the center that isn’t present on the L-300……. What is it? Decoration? Support structure? Part of the sound generation? Just curious.


Those areas/shapes on stators apply different amount of push pull forces to diaphragm in order to deal with resonances/or simply boost some frequency areas. It is part of the tuning of headphones.

areas on stators with low perforation density: stronger push pull
areas with no perforation: very strong push pull.


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## droido256

Tugbars said:


> Those areas/shapes on stators apply different amount of push pull forces to diaphragm in order to deal with resonances/or simply boost some frequency areas. It is part of the tuning of headphones.
> 
> areas on stators with low perforation density: stronger push pull
> areas with no perforation: very strong push pull.


Ohhh I see, I wonder if that’s what helps with the soundstage size and projection.


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## Tugbars (Apr 8, 2022)

droido256 said:


> Ohhh I see, I wonder if that’s what helps with the soundstage size and projection.


definitely, stators ideally should be as open as possible to minimize diffractions. (but a very open stator design can't hold diaphragm under control too, thus, engineers strive to find a perfect balance) Less diffractions mean higher high frequency fidelity and better soundstage accuracy. Planars have big magnets between their diaphragms and ears, that's the main reason why estats have superiority in detail & imaging. (potentially) Fang Bian addressed this problem of planars in one of his early interviews.


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## droido256

Tugbars said:


> definitely, stators ideally should be as open as possible to minimize diffractions. (but a very open stator design can't hold diaphragm under control too, thus, engineers strive to find a perfect balance) Less diffractions mean higher high frequency fidelity and better soundstage accuracy. Planars have big magnets between their diaphragms and ears, that's the main reason why estats have superiority in detail & imaging. (potentially) Fang Bian addressed this problem of planars in one of his early interviews.


It’s amazing the step ups. From dynamic to planar mag, to estat. Before I got the L-300, the LCD-2 and the HE-5xx were the best sounding headphones I’ve ever had…… and the L-300 blew them all away in every way except bass, the LCD-2 still is the most subwoofer like headphone I have.


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## martin778 (Apr 9, 2022)

You know I can't help myself, just brought home a new pair of X9000's and have a T8000 on the way, currently using the SRM-700T and Terminator II DAC playing Qobuz hi res material through Roon, all upsampled to DSD512.
First impressions - more neutral, insane macro detail (the 007 is already amazing in that regard) and the obvious midbass thickness of the 007mk2 is absent with the X9000. Acoustic instruments sound extremely lifelike on the X9000 but what surprised me the most is that the X9000 seem to have better subbass than the 007mk2, probably due to a larger diaphragm.

While the X9000 is superior, the 007mk2 still offers a bit more pleasant, laidback sound to sit back and relax. I just wish Stax would release a MK3 version with pivoting earcups like the 009 series.

Anyone knows if it's possible to plug/unplug the HP on the second port when the amp is running and there is already a HP connected to the first output? I wonder if there is any sound difference with 2 HP's connected...since it's voltage driven, I don't expect it.


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## KDS315 (Apr 10, 2022)

Congrats! But I wouldn’t waste my $$$ on a T8000, there are much better amps!!

Two STAX headphones are no issue if you have a good amp! No issues to plug/unplug while on. Just short circuit the headphone connector with your thumb after unplugging. Discharges the stators!


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## Trance_Gott

martin778 said:


> You know I can't help myself, just brought home a new pair of X9000's and have a T8000 on the way, currently using the SRM-700T and Terminator II DAC playing Qobuz hi res material through Roon, all upsampled to DSD512.
> First impressions - more neutral, insane macro detail (the 007 is already amazing in that regard) and the obvious midbass thickness of the 007mk2 is absent with the X9000. Acoustic instruments sound extremely lifelike on the X9000 but what surprised me the most is that the X9000 seem to have better subbass than the 007mk2, probably due to a larger diaphragm.
> 
> While the X9000 is superior, the 007mk2 still offers a bit more pleasant, laidback sound to sit back and relax. I just wish Stax would release a MK3 version with pivoting earcups like the 009 series.
> ...


Do you think the X9000 delivers enough enjoyment with Metal music especially in the bass department? I had SR007 MK2 bass port mod which was good for Metal but technically not on par with 009/s.


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## droido256

KDS315 said:


> Congrsts! But I wouldn’t waste my $$$ on a T8000, there are much better amps!!
> 
> Two STAX headphones are no issue if you have a good amp! No issues to plug/unplug while on. Just short circuit the headphone connector with your thumb after unplugging. Discharges the stators!


Is it ok to leave the headphone plugged into the amp in between uses? Or is it best to unplug and discharge after every use?


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## martin778

KDS315 said:


> Congrsts! But I wouldn’t waste my $$$ on a T8000, there are much better amps!!
> 
> Two STAX headphones are no issue if you have a good amp! No issues to plug/unplug while on. Just short circuit the headphone connector with your thumb after unplugging. Discharges the stators!


Non Stax amps are too much of a gamble here. I asked and some aren't even CE certified so the dealer won't/can't stock them.


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## KDS315 (Apr 9, 2022)

martin778 said:


> Non Stax amps are too much of a gamble here. I asked and some aren't even CE certified so the dealer won't/can't stock them.


Rauenbühler Amps (high-amp.de) are CE certified! I have several and am very happy with them…

Pretty convinced the SIRIUS V9 (transistor) or Alpha Centauri V9 (hybride) would serve you well!


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## KDS315 (Apr 9, 2022)

Trance_Gott said:


> Do you think the X9000 delivers enough enjoyment with Metal music especially in the bass department? I had SR007 MK2 bass port mod which was good for Metal but technically not on par with 009/s.


Isn’t it a bit too one-dimensional to measure but everything on its performance on plus 100dB “metal” music alone Thomas? I heard rumors that there might be other music genres out there … just saying 😆


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## Trance_Gott

KDS315 said:


> Isn’t it a bit too one-dimensional to measure but everything on its performance on plus 100dB “metal” music alone Thomas? I heard rumors that there might be other music genres out there … just saying 😆


Did you ever hear very good produced metal? Tool for example. The last 2 Fates Warning albums. Evergrey. The last Exodus album. More examples?
Worlds best headphone must be able to play genres like Rock, Pop and Metal amazing not only Jazz and Classic. Or not?


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## bearFNF

martin778 said:


> You know I can't help myself, just brought home a new pair of X9000's and have a T8000 on the way, currently using the SRM-700T and Terminator II DAC playing Qobuz hi res material through Roon, all upsampled to DSD512.
> First impressions - more neutral, insane macro detail (the 007 is already amazing in that regard) and the obvious midbass thickness of the 007mk2 is absent with the X9000. Acoustic instruments sound extremely lifelike on the X9000 but what surprised me the most is that the X9000 seem to have better subbass than the 007mk2, probably due to a larger diaphragm.
> 
> While the X9000 is superior, the 007mk2 still offers a bit more pleasant, laidback sound to sit back and relax. I just wish Stax would release a MK3 version with pivoting earcups like the 009 series.
> ...


Shouldn't be an issue to plug/unplug just remember to turn the volume down before you do.

I also agree the T8000 is not the best option for the money when it comes to amps...


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## martin778 (Apr 9, 2022)

Got it, I don't want to damage either the amp or the headphones from some voltage spikes.
The T8000 was an obvious choice not willing to gamble on artesian products with unknown waiting time / resell value. 
Was also curious about the D50 but folks mentioned it ran very hot, that was a no-no for me knowing it's near impossible to repair because of all the digital stuff inside.

But who knows, I will keep an eye on a used KGSSHV Carbon when it pops up in Europe.


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## eee1111 (Apr 9, 2022)

Trance_Gott said:


> Did you ever hear very good produced metal? Tool for example. The last 2 Fates Warning albums. Evergrey. The last Exodus album. More examples?
> Worlds best headphone must be able to play genres like Rock, Pop and Metal amazing not only Jazz and Classic. Or not?


I listened to horse the band the other day on them. A little protomartyr and some Metallica and some converge.

It’s gonna play what you throw at it.

I prefer metal on the TC and lcd x of the stuff I have. Most metal is recorded like crap.

The x9000 is gonna be fine for everything. Maybe stick with your crbn. I dunno. You don’t have to worry about enjoyment with them. They’re great.


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## Trance_Gott (Apr 9, 2022)

eee1111 said:


> I listened to horse the band the other day on them. A little protomartyr and some Metallica and some converge.
> 
> It’s gonna play what you throw at it.
> 
> ...


When the recording is crap it sounds crap with all headphones.
Metallica especially! Only the DCA Gold remaster Master Of Puppets and Ride The Lightning sounds good.
I don't have much crap recordings only collecting the good ones the other goes in the garbage when it sounds bad.
I'm an Audiophile Metal guy


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## KDS315

Trance_Gott said:


> Worlds best headphone must be able to play genres like Rock, Pop and Metal amazing not only Jazz and Classic. Or not?


Sure Thomas I do, but you seem to sound like a "who only has a hammer sees all as a nail" ... hence my comment


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## Trance_Gott

KDS315 said:


> Sure Thomas I do, but you seem to sound like a "who only has a hammer sees all as a nail" ... hence my comment


I have also a good collection of Jazz and Classic recordings my friend. No worry.


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## ri_toast (Apr 9, 2022)

I think I have a Stax problem.
I've has an SRM-1/Mk2 for 15 years and it's been flawless gets moderate use. Recent purchases are 007 MK2 and I was really floored at how good they sound on this amp. On the Topping DZ7s as dac using line out I never feel the need to go past 10 o'clock on the volume control: loads of headroom. I know it's older and will eventually break so I've been looking around at options. Stumbled across another SRM-1/MK2 being sold "as is"...cheap...how can I lose? Well, bought it and it works perfectly. Cleaned it out, dusty and shot the balance/volume control with some contact cleaner. The caps seem ok: no cracks or swelling. Funny, it's seven numbers off in serial number: 5697 and 5690. I mistakenly plugged some pro bias into the normal port and listened for a half hour before I noticed my mistake; volume seemed a little low but still workable.

Five Stax headphones (ear speakers) and two amps, seems like a good problem to have.
btw electrostatic headphones will discharge on their own left alone. Before changing headphones / cables I always power the amp off and turn the volume down, nothing more.

I did use the SR-003 to test the new amplifier, wow! I've posted in the past that these were lackluster. Wrong again; They are lovely with proper volume.


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## pspentax

I think this is to much!!!! 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


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## RadekB

Hi there,
a sudden urge has grown in me to find a pair of headphones to complement my 007mk2.
And I'm not going to fight it, because I know that this is not, in fact, a sudden urge - it's been growing for a while. It's not that I'm not satisfied with my lovely 007 - in fact I'm in love with every aspect of their sound. It's simply about complementing my collection.
Therefore I'll be looking for something.... similar. Especially characteristics like: speed (airiness), soundstage & holography have to be present. But on top of that I'm looking for a different flavor, something that can be called a variation of electrostatic sound (but not an electrostat).
What headphone comes to your mind first? 
(let's say that we have a budget for the new 007).


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## bearFNF

pspentax said:


> I think this is to much!!!! 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


If you can still afford food, clothing, and shelter... then it's not too much, IMO. Enjoy what you have.


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## bearFNF

RadekB said:


> Hi there,
> a sudden urge has grown in me to find a pair of headphones to complement my 007mk2.
> And I'm not going to fight it, because I know that this is not, in fact, a sudden urge - it's been growing for a while. It's not that I'm not satisfied with my lovely 007 - in fact I'm in love with every aspect of their sound. It's simply about complementing my collection.
> Therefore I'll be looking for something.... similar. Especially characteristics like: speed (airiness), soundstage & holography have to be present. But on top of that I'm looking for a different flavor, something that can be called a variation of electrostatic sound (but not an electrostat).
> ...


Dan Clark Audio Voce -see this thread for impressions and info - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mr-speakers-voce-electrostatic-headphone-thread.887301/
or
Sennheiser HD800 - not electrostat so would need an amp added to drive them. See this thread for info (LOL a long read with 28,689 posts to date) - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread.650510/


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## martin778 (Apr 10, 2022)

I'm noticing something with these TOTL Staxes - they make the sounds so isolated and clear that the stereo image gets weird, sometimes it feels like having 4-5 separate points around the head where sound comes from instead of a complete image. Weird phenomenon.
SR-007mk2 focuses more to the middle, in front of the listener but the X9000 takes the separation to the extreme, my brain still needs to adopt to this.

By the way, I think I've finally lost my mind with Stax, got myself a climate control cabinet to store them...  

I wonder how the connectors on the amp are going to hold up with frequent unplugging, with the 700T they are much less tight than with the old SRD/SRM1 stuff where you could almost hold the amp in the air by the 5 pin cable.


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## lsantista

RadekB said:


> Hi there,
> a sudden urge has grown in me to find a pair of headphones to complement my 007mk2.
> And I'm not going to fight it, because I know that this is not, in fact, a sudden urge - it's been growing for a while. It's not that I'm not satisfied with my lovely 007 - in fact I'm in love with every aspect of their sound. It's simply about complementing my collection.
> Therefore I'll be looking for something.... similar. Especially characteristics like: speed (airiness), soundstage & holography have to be present. But on top of that I'm looking for a different flavor, something that can be called a variation of electrostatic sound (but not an electrostat).
> ...


when Ive listened to Audeze LC2 for the first and only time, like 20 minutes on mostly pop/acoustic songs that Im not familiar with, the main thought in my mind was "its strikingly similar to the 007mk2 (have that one)". COuld only try one classical song and ok, the Audeze wasnt up to the task. From what I read here, maybe the LCD3 or 4 should still be somewhat similar and better than the 2. Oh I had the original HD800 with delkoni pads and I wouldn't say it reminds me of the 007ii


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## RadekB (Apr 10, 2022)

lsantista said:


> when Ive listened to Audeze LC2 for the first and only time, like 20 minutes on mostly pop/acoustic songs that Im not familiar with, the main thought in my mind was "its strikingly similar to the 007mk2 (have that one)". COuld only try one classical song and ok, the Audeze wasnt up to the task. From what I read here, maybe the LCD3 or 4 should still be somewhat similar and better than the 2. Oh I had the original HD800 with delkoni pads and I wouldn't say it reminds me of the 007ii


Thanks for the hint. I had a chance to audition LCD-2C some time ago, and as far as my first impression was similar to yours, I noticed that the width of a stage was way narrower + instruments positioning was not that precise (somewhat hazy) vs the 007. And this is a significant variable in my equation


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## Dontzapme

Does anyone know what sort of capacitors I would need to replace the stock capacitors in my SRM-006tS amp? Do the "V" and "uF" values need to exactly match the old ones?

I apologize if this has been asked already, but I could not find the answer anywhere myself.


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## Aspirant Audiophile

Confessions of an audiophile aspirant who is also possibly just an idiot. 

I went to my audio shop to buy my first pair of Stax. L500 MK2, loved them, but I also bought a Node (on the salesperson's advice) and a 252S. Every single person I've met or chatted with has encouraged me to return the Node and the 252S in order to afford better and more relevant equipment. 

So. Ok. I went back to the audio shop and demo'd l500, l700 and 007MK2 with the 252, the Stax SRM-D50, and the SRM-353x, all with a Node as the source, but also while planning to run things through my PC upon getting home. 

I definitely did not enjoy the 007s on any of the drivers. This is my first Stax, and I want the brightness that makes hearing detail so easy. They just felt like nice headphones that weren't for me personally.

I was surprised (disappointed? shocked?) that I didn't hear a difference between the l500s and l700s, on any of the drivers. So I kept the l500s, returned the Node and 252 I'd bought, and bought the SRM-D50 and a nice USB cable to run audio through my computer.

I come home, and both me and my wife (who is a professional composer) noticed a big drop in the 'brightness' we'd heard from the l500/Node/252 setup we'd started with. We have no idea what happened--is it because we're using a computer instead of a dedicated streamer (the salesperson is literally the only person who thinks this)? Or is the DAC in the SRM-50 really so dated that it takes the edge off the Stax? 

I can find almost zero reviews of the SRM-50 online, and even on Head-fi the commentary is pretty sparse. It's almost as though nobody wants to talk about it, unless they're trying to sell it. All I read is that it's got a pretty design and a mediocre DAC...and that the DAC might (or might not) matter.

The way my wife put it is this: with the 252 and Node streamer (or at least something in there), we felt like we were in the room with the musicians, and with the SRM-50, we feel like we're in an adjacent room with carpet on the wall.

So, I traded in a streamer for a better amp and came home with less of the sound I wanted... Not good.

I'm heading back to the audio shop tomorrow to figure out what the heck is going on. I've decided that I'm not going to buy from second-hand experts, even though I'm sure the components can be amazing--it's just a little too much risk for me as a neophyte. But now I'm wondering whether I 'saved' 600 bucks in trading in the Node, only to be stuck with a driver that somehow isn't as clean as the 252, and with the need for a 600-800 new DAC (i.e. the Bifrost 2)...

Any advice from someone more knowledgeable than me?


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## KDS315

That SRM-D50 got a lot of criticism for being not the greatest DAC/Amp. I seriously think this is true indeed. Get the newest NODE N130 and a decent STAX-Amp, or add a good DAC in between, as the NODE N130 finally now allows USB out. Since you don't like the SR-007, any other stax headphones is easier to drive, so not a big thing then to find a decent STAX-Amp.


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## Aspirant Audiophile

Thanks for the reply; the only reason I bought the Node in the first place is because the salesman was adamant that I can't run Stax through a PC without compromising the sound. It just sat next to my PC. The Node model you describe sounds like it solves my USB crisis, but are you also suggesting that a dedicated streamer is in fact a smart move?


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## KDS315

Well I started using Roon on a PC to stream but was not impressed, so my first solution after this was the Node 2i back then. Quite a difference! Now I use a Roon Rock running on an Intel NUC  plus a deDicated DAC (RME ADI-2), but not really that much better than using the Node N130 (still have it running as a backup)


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## bigjako

The D50 is almost like a portable amp (imo, I've not heard it).  Get yourself a proper desktop amp and you should be fine.  I second getting some sort of streamer vs running off USB from a PC (I use an Allo DigiOne Signature to connect into my DAC via USB/Coax/BNC but a NUC with Roon Rock seems like a great option too - Darko has a great video about building one).

I would really calm your concerns about third-party amps.  They'll likely work out much cheaper in the long run, you'll advance straight to Go and not deal with multiple upgrades along your path (though, it's fair to say that my journey to a Carbon was just as enjoyable as the destination itself).  But I get where you're coming from.  There are 2 used Stax amps for sale in the Classifieds right now (one of them is mine but I think the 007ts + L-300LE is the better deal right now).  The 007ts will serve you well for decades and you can always do the CCS mod to it - that said, if you genuinely prefer the Lambda sound signature over the 007 then you won't need to go too far up the food chain - the Lambdas are easy to drive.


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## tumpux

I wouldn’t suggest third party amplifiers or diy streamers like digione to someone who is only comfortable in buying gears from an audio store. They are not there yet. They need the comfort of a knowledgeable sales advisor to help them with their needs. 
I would suggest them to find a community with the same interest. It won’t be too hard to find them. 
I will also stay away from the audio stores that don’t have good enough demo unit of stax drivers that can make SR-007 sounds noticeably better than Lambdas. 

Give us long enough time and one day we all will graduate to the level of soldering monkeys who install ccs mod on their friends’ vintage stax drivers on weekends.


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## Aspirant Audiophile (Apr 11, 2022)

Thank you for your advice, I do have other hobbies, but I'd like to get on the good foot I with this one and not fall down a rabbit hole of poor decisions and then to a stunted interest. 

I appreciate the commentary, and I'll update after my wife escorts me to the hi-fi shop.


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## tumpux

My favorite quote from my audiophile uncle is to listen to a lot of different setup before deciding to buy a new gear. I didn’t quite get it when he told me 35 years ago. That’s why I accumulated boxes of unused electronics in my storage room. Maybe when we have the resources, the urge to purchase something new could be very strong.


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## tumpux

What also important is to know where we came from. If you found Node 2 or D50 is inadequate, it’s probably because your previous setup is very good.


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## BTD1

I need some advice from seasoned Stax owners.  I briefly had an x9000 that I have sent back to Stax for an imbalance problem.  I also have a CRBN.  I am wondering whether or not picking up a 007mk2 would give me another perspective on estats. I liked the x9000s, but I only had them a couple of weeks before sending them back.  The CRBNs are less and less listened to.  How would the 007mk2s fit into my estat discovery?  I listen to mostly classical, lots of chamber music with strings.


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## pspentax

bearFNF said:


> If you can still afford food, clothing, and shelter... then it's not too much, IMO. Enjoy what you have.


I can still live with all of them 🤣🤣🤣 but I need to unload something because the x9000 is arriving 🤦‍♂️


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## martin778 (Apr 12, 2022)

Why is T 8000 so much worse than the small 700T? Creamy, rounded mess without definition?!
I will give it more time but I don't understand it, this is impossible.


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## BassicScience

BTD1 said:


> I need some advice from seasoned Stax owners.  I briefly had an x9000 that I have sent back to Stax for an imbalance problem.  I also have a CRBN.  I am wondering whether or not picking up a 007mk2 would give me another perspective on estats. I liked the x9000s, but I only had them a couple of weeks before sending them back.  The CRBNs are less and less listened to.  How would the 007mk2s fit into my estat discovery?  I listen to mostly classical, lots of chamber music with strings.


I've only heard the 007mk2 on a handful of occasions, and never at length or under optimal conditions. But since no one else is chiming in, I figured I'd offer a response anyway.  I believe the 007mk2 would indeed "give [you] another perspective on estats", but it is nowhere close to the X9000 in terms of balance and technicalities, and its somewhat bassy signature will be less advantageous with classical chamber music than with other genres. In other words, unless you just like having a big stable of headphones on hand for a change of pace, I don't think purchasing an 007mk2 makes a ton of sense. I've had enough experience with various estats now to know that the 007mk2 is not in my upper echelon, and not a candidate for me to purchase. OTOH, it's fairly inexpensive as estats go, and you could probably sell it for only a small loss if you didn't like it.


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## BTD1

BassicScience said:


> I've only heard the 007mk2 on a handful of occasions, and never at length or under optimal conditions. But since no one else is chiming in, I figured I'd offer a response anyway.  I believe the 007mk2 would indeed "give [you] another perspective on estats", but it is nowhere close to the X9000 in terms of balance and technicalities, and its somewhat bassy signature will be less advantageous with classical chamber music than with other genres. In other words, unless you just like having a big stable of headphones on hand for a change of pace, I don't think purchasing an 007mk2 makes a ton of sense. I've had enough experience with various estats now to know that the 007mk2 is not in my upper echelon, and not a candidate for me to purchase. OTOH, it's fairly inexpensive as estats go, and you could probably sell it for only a small loss if you didn't like it.


Thanks for your response.  Since the local dealer here had it in stock and it's price is reasonable as these things go, I bought them this morning.  Too early to report any impressions except to say that it has that Stax delicacy that I have found missing in the CRBNs.  It will be interesting to compare these to the x9000s when I get them back.


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## martin778 (Apr 12, 2022)

007mk2 is absolutely 'bassy' and they have a certain midbass thickness, have both the x9000 and 007mk2 but I dare to say the 007mk2 has a more easygoing, laid back presentation that might appeal to a broader audience in the long run. The 9 series is more extreme, for L/Lambda afficionado's.

By the way, since the X9000's the 009/S seem to get no love anymore? The 007mk2 is a bit of an oddball, a 'classic' model that keeps it spot (and the prices) while the 009/S seem to have plummeted in value lately, with the 009 sometimes being sold close to 007mk2 prices.


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## BTD1

martin778 said:


> 007mk2 is absolutely 'bassy' and they have a certain midbass thickness, have both the x9000 and 007mk2 but I dare to say the 007mk2 has a more easygoing, laid back presentation that might appeal to a broader audience in the long run. The 9 series is more extreme, for L/Lambda afficionado's.
> 
> By the way, since the X9000's the 009/S seem to get no love anymore? The 007mk2 is a bit of an oddball, a 'classic' model that keeps it spot (and the prices) while the 009/S seem to have plummeted in value lately, with the 009 sometimes being sold close to 007mk2 prices.


Your comments are interesting.  I'm finding that to appreciate why Stax has such a loyal following you need to own a few different models.  But for now, I'll stop with the x9000s and the 007mk2s.  I'm enjoying the journey!


----------



## catscratch

I didn't respond since I don't have an x9000 for comparison to the 007A, but I've used 007s of various vintages for about 15 years. The current 007A (same as the Mk2 except for the color scheme) to me is kinda Stax's HD800, a headphone that has some flaws out of the box but can be made to sound very good with some tweaking. It has kind of a V-shaped signature to my mind, the whole "007 is warm" thing was true of the older versions, but my example is actually quite bright with some midbass boom. The mids have a warm tilt to them but also some hollowness and a somewhat off tone thanks to a peak at 950hz. The design is also archaic, there is no adjustment mechanism for fit save for rotating earpads and a self-adjusting elastic headband. 

For me the fit is problematic, the headband elastic is too tight and it pulls the headphones out of position constantly, so modding the headband what the first thing I had to do. After that was the bass port mod, which fixed the midbass boom, but also reduced the overall quantity of bass noticeably. Then came EQ which took care of the hollow mids and excessive brightness. Toss in a powerful amp, and you have an excellent sounding overall headphone with very high resolution, a full and robust sound, and a precise 3d stage, though the overall presentation is more conventional than with other estats and a bit more like a normal headphone, though with very high technicalities.

But without the tweaks, it's a bit of a mess. The best 007 out of the box was the early Mk1 with 70xxx serials, but those are rare and getting old.


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## DesignTaylor (Apr 13, 2022)

If anyone is interested in what one set of ears thinks of most of the major estats, here's a playlist that includes the L300 LTD, 007, 009, 009s, VOCE, Shangri-la Jr, ES1a, and CRBN. Cheers!

Playlist Link


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## tjlindle

Hey guys, pretty basic question, sorry in advance - does the Mjolnir Carbon or KGSSHV have dual channel attenuation knobs like most of the Stax amps do?


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## KDS315

NO, they don’t have that.


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## Aspirant Audiophile

Are there any opinions among Stax users about changes in quality, good or bad, of their ear-speakers or drivers, before and after Stax was acquired by Edifier in 2011 (according to Wikipedia)?


----------



## BenF

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> Confessions of an audiophile aspirant who is also possibly just an idiot.
> ...
> I come home, and both me and my wife (who is a professional composer) noticed a big drop in the 'brightness' we'd heard from the l500/Node/252 setup we'd started with. We have no idea what happened--is it because we're using a computer instead of a dedicated streamer (the salesperson is literally the only person who thinks this)? Or is the DAC in the SRM-50 really so dated that it takes the edge off the Stax?
> ...
> The way my wife put it is this: with the 252 and Node streamer (or at least something in there), we felt like we were in the room with the musicians, and with the SRM-50, we feel like we're in an adjacent room with carpet on the wall.


When I auditioned D50, it certainly sounded much warmer with a slight veil compared to 252S.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the problem was the built-in DAC, not the amp. You should try it with a lively yet uncolored DAC, e.g. Khadas Tone Board (100$).

I think D10 sounded better than D50 too, both with built-in DAC and external.
D10 needs an external DAC (2VRMS) to reach it's full power output, the internal DAC sounds good, but limits the power.


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## Aspirant Audiophile

Final setup after three trips to the shop: Node, MX-DAC, SRM-400S, and l700 Stax. I wish I had the knowledge and experience to tinker further, but for now we have a winner.

Quite a lot more cash than the first setup of Node, 252S, l500. But noticeably better sound, and far, far better than with the second attempted setup with the l500, SRM-D50 and PC source, which was quite frankly unpleasant.


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## dukeskd

BTD1 said:


> I need some advice from seasoned Stax owners.  I briefly had an x9000 that I have sent back to Stax for an imbalance problem.  I also have a CRBN.  I am wondering whether or not picking up a 007mk2 would give me another perspective on estats. I liked the x9000s, but I only had them a couple of weeks before sending them back.  The CRBNs are less and less listened to.  How would the 007mk2s fit into my estat discovery?  I listen to mostly classical, lots of chamber music with strings.


Have you tried the 009?


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## BTD1

dukeskd said:


> Have you tried the 009?


I have not tried the 009, but if I find it on demo I will give it a listen.


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## dukeskd

BTD1 said:


> I have not tried the 009, but if I find it on demo I will give it a listen.


I think you should try it. I would prefer it over the 007 for classical as the sound stage is much improved. The question of amplification will be crucial to temper somewhat the higher end but I personally never had a problem with it since I prefer brighter headphones.


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## Fidelity King

bigjako said:


> Benson is the owner of ES Labs, really nice guy who clearly has a love and expertise for estats.
> 
> I have the 404 drivers in mine.  I got them a while back, I had an obsession with hearing a Sigma but the OGs were too hard to find and expensive and of questionable lifespan.  These are practically brand new.  They really only work for acoustic and classical music, but for those they work really really well.  They don't get much head time for me and I always toy with the idea of selling them to put towards something that would get more use, but they're so unique I look at them also like functional works of audio art.  And jazz sounds amazing with them (particularly on the Carbon).
> 
> Pics incoming.


How would you describe the sound of the Bottlehead estate amp?


----------



## Fidelity King

bigjako said:


> I've been meaning to post an update for a long time, but the months fly by.  I recently came across a used ES Labs ES-1a and got help from Benson at ES to fix the broken headband and wanted to share my experience with that headphone and compare it to my L300 LE and a little mod project of mine, where I took an L300, applied the SOCAS Pad Mod (and ZMF Lambskin Ovals, along with the full blu-tak mod (to both the driver housing and to the ported SOCAS bracket) - my goal was to try to bass the hell out of the L300.  I've run them on a CCS-modded 006t (Dominik's) and the Bottlehead Stat.
> 
> First the headphones: the L300 was my best-in-class headphone and to some degree it still definitely is, but it's also the one that's most directly comparable to the ES-1a and suffers in some ways from the comparison.  My Lambda NBs (or my Sigmas) are just apples and oranges to the ES-1a, their use cases don't overlap.  I love my NBs on the Stat (and on the SRD-7, which drives really nice bass out of them).  On the 006 the NB is a little harsh on the high end (I think the CCS mod really pushes the 006 into Solid State-like zones).  As I've spent time with the ES1a, the L300s got the biggest hit in headtime, so let's start there.
> 
> ...


Do you ever plan on publishing a review on the Bottlehead Estat amp?


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## eskamobob1

Fidelity King said:


> Do you ever plan on publishing a review on the Bottlehead Estat amp?


I would love to see this comparison


----------



## bigjako

I’ve posted a bunch of impressions over the year I’ve had it, but I don’t know how good I’d be at a real “audiophile” review talking about 7Khz shelves and such.  But it does deserve a better profile in estatland so I will try to do something more comprehensive before it sells.   I’m a marketer so maybe a review will help ship it!  Some quick notes for now (I’m out of town at the moment so this is from memory.). 

- It’s surprisingly powerful for such a small footprint.  One of the reasons I considered keeping it and selling the Electra, it’s just much more practical in terms of real estate.  It has a CCS, which I think serves to maximize efficiency.  It also means you don’t have to use matched tube pairs, because it’s also self balancing, or so I was told. 
- it responds amazingly well to tube rolling, which to me is a big positive.  It’s nice to distract my “grass is greener” needs with tubes instead of headphones or amps. 
- it is perfect with Lambda NBs.  I planned to keep it forever because of how it synergizes with them. I have two NBs. One is is securely stored until the day my primary dies.  They are not technically great, the X9000 would pulverize it in a head to head, but there’s something so sweet and musical and analog about them that nothing compares.  Birgir once told me to appreciate them, that they were special with no contemporary analog, and he was right.  I wish I could hear them on my Mjolnir Carbon but alas…
- it sounds better with my ES-1a than the Electra does. I can’t really explain it.  It’s absolutely not as detailed as the CCS modded 006 (also for sale) - it rolls them off to some degree, but they sound wonderful and musical and analog.  They almost make them sound like an NB. I won’t even listen to the ES-1a on the Electra but I would on the Stat.  However, the ES-1a on the Carbon is near perfect.  TOTL.  If I didn’t have the Carbon, I’d sell the Electra instead of the Stat or the 006. I really wish I could hear an 007 on it. 
- it works really well with all Lambdas.  More explanation of what that means below but it drives them perfectly well
So why am I selling it, you may ask? I would be fine if I didn’t.  It could be my perfect second setup if I ever really needed one.  Sadly I have no lake house so it just sits unused. But it is a beautiful audiophile work of art, an electrostatic statue.  

The sound signature is more in your head, less expansive than the Electra, which really blows everything out.  As I said, it responds to tube rolling but it’s very full bodied in general.  It adds a lot of warmth and roundness and musicality to estats.  It makes them sound a lot more organic.  Strangely, both the Stat and the Electra were originally owned by Dcnexus and he described it perfectly to me.  The BHSE, as a hybrid, had a brighter signature.  Closer to solid state than either the Stat or the Electra, which are both pure tubes.  He said the Electra was the direct step up from the Stat and I would agree.  But it’s less about “better” or even more detailed, and more about grander and more expansive.  Which I like.  It’s a cliche but the Stat is like you’re on stage, the Electra is like you’re in some large, high ceilinged theatre or concert hall and about ten rows deep. 

The Stat is basically half the price of the Electra and based on price/value, the Stat wins hands down.  

Wife is telling me I have to go to dinner immediately, it’s 8pm, so sadly I can’t expound any more.


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## martin778

Well, no more headphone stands of any kind for me anyways, even the Stax HPS2 damages (dents) earpads in no time, what a stupid design. Really wanted to have a place to hang / place multiple headsets without damaging them but it seems near impossible

1. HPS dents earpads and stretches out the headbant
2. Omega stretches the whole thing out.


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

I received very helpful guidance on Head-fi.org, and as my excitement mounts about my Stax, I thought I'd ask another question, specifically about the l700mk2 "versus" (note the ironic quote marks) a 9000x setup. 

But first, some context:

I am not an expert in anything related audio. I just like quality. I used to be an indie rock DJ. My wife is a well-regarded classical composer, and she teaches me how to use my ears. So any setup is for two people, an authentic expert and a fanboy.

I WAS looking for 1000-dollar audio when I started this venture... But given that it's possible in theory to afford a Stax 9000 with all the fixins, ie Blue Hawaii etc etc etc, I'm considering taking that big step.

A month ago, I'd never heard of Stax, and I hadn't bought a new set of headphones/earspeakers in 15 years, the previous ones being about eighty bucks.

Two weeks ago, I listened to the l300, l500, l700 and 007 for the first time. 

This week, I have a streamer (Node), DAC (MX-DAC), Stax (l700 MK2), driver/amp (SRM-400s), and streaming subscription (Qobuz) that put a smile on my face with regularity. 

Neither of us like the 007--at all--we couldn't understand why someone would buy estats that don't sound a whole lot like estats (yes, I know I'm probably being obtuse). We haven't tried the 009 and don't have access to one. We can try out the 9000 in a couple days though. 

What we definitely don't want is to pay ten or fifteen grand for The Best Headphones and then feel like we traded in exceptional clarity (current setup) for a "best of the l700, 007 and 009" package that winds up not feeling like a massive upgrade in any area. 

My question is very broad and totally subjective. I hope folks won't shy away from personal opinion though: if we're listening with highly trained ears, what are we getting with the 9000 that we don't get with the aforementioned setup we're already happy with, and how much "happier" (5%? 10? 24.7?)?

And no, we don't want to spend a few months getting more used to what we have. If we're gonna do it we're gonna do it now.


----------



## zomkung

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> I received very helpful guidance on Head-fi.org, and as my excitement mounts about my Stax, I thought I'd ask another question, specifically about the l700mk2 "versus" (note the ironic quote marks) a 9000x setup.
> 
> But first, some context:
> 
> ...



It took me three months to love 007.

at first impression, I do agree that 007 is somewhat muddy and doesn't have a wow factor.


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## Aspirant Audiophile

I get that, but we don't want our ears to get conditioned and normalized to any one sound. Yet.


----------



## eee1111

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> I received very helpful guidance on Head-fi.org, and as my excitement mounts about my Stax, I thought I'd ask another question, specifically about the l700mk2 "versus" (note the ironic quote marks) a 9000x setup.
> 
> But first, some context:
> 
> ...





Aspirant Audiophile said:


> I get that, but we don't want our ears to get conditioned and normalized to any one sound. Yet.


I can tell you with 💯 certainty you gotta trust your own ears. My response to what you are hearing is different from what I think you want me or others to tell you.


----------



## martin778

The 007(mk2) is quite different to the X9000, I feel the 007 has a more 'triangular' soundstage - there are sounds on the left / right right at the ear but the vocals appear to come from a narrow point somewhere in front of us, in the distance. Hard to explain it but this is how they feel for me.
For the X9000 it's more 'evereything is in the distance' kind of feel, with more air and spaciousness.


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## number1sixerfan

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> I received very helpful guidance on Head-fi.org, and as my excitement mounts about my Stax, I thought I'd ask another question, specifically about the l700mk2 "versus" (note the ironic quote marks) a 9000x setup.
> 
> But first, some context:
> 
> ...



It's a hobby, it's totally up to you how slow or fast you'd like to upgrade. Based on what you seem to enjoy, plus Classical sounding like a major genre of focus, I would say the 009 (or S version) might be really worth checking out. You don't have to leap to the x9000 for a good performance boost--and especially considering the delay in order fulfillment right now. 

As for your last question about ROI, I would honestly say that as you climb the ladder, you certainly start to approach the land of diminishing returns. You certainly pay a premium the higher up you go.. only you can really answer that by trying them out.


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## tjlindle

Anyone here have recommendations for where to source replacement pads for an SR-X Mk3? Not necessarily stock pads, just anything that will fit the cups and sound good.


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

Just a quick response to the respondents to my post--comments about trusting my own ears and enjoying the journey are totally valid...that said, I really would welcome subjective opinions. 

I may be misrepresenting how I make an audio (or any) decision. To clarify: I don't copy and paste the opinions of others, then go buy what someone else tells me to do. I'm one tier higher than that in the "fool and his money" spectrum  

The opinions of people with more experience don't create my own opinion--they provide indicators for what I should look for when listening. I've read several reviews on the HeadCase forum, for example, that the x9000 has imaging and brightness issues, but that it's also of better build and neutrality than the 007 or 009. I'm going to look out for that, and doing so will surely help me train my ears.

There's an x9000 sitting in the shop down the street, so there's no concern about shipping delays. I'd just feel more comfortable doing the demo with more experienced, non-bot observations.


----------



## Chefguru

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> I received very helpful guidance on Head-fi.org, and as my excitement mounts about my Stax, I thought I'd ask another question, specifically about the l700mk2 "versus" (note the ironic quote marks) a 9000x setup.
> 
> But first, some context:
> 
> ...



The 009/009s/x9000 are very different sounding than other Stax headphones. The differences between them is more of the “is it worth it” conundrum.

The 007 is a completely different sound, but in previous generations matched closer to the Stax house sound. The current lambda models no longer resemble it - so it really feels like the outcast. I’ve owned several versions of the 007. It’s the only headphone I’ve ever experienced sounding vastly different on different amps. I hated the 007a on my modified 717. I love the 007mk1 on the Carbon.

Audition the x9000. It’s the best of the  modern bunch and will tell you a lot about your preferences.


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## BassicScience

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> Just a quick response to the respondents to my post--comments about trusting my own ears and enjoying the journey are totally valid...that said, I really would welcome subjective opinions.
> 
> I may be misrepresenting how I make an audio (or any) decision. To clarify: I don't copy and paste the opinions of others, then go buy what someone else tells me to do. I'm one tier higher than that in the "fool and his money" spectrum
> 
> ...


If someone reported that the X9000 has imaging and brightness issues, I'd question the amp or something in the setup. I found it to have superb tonal balance and excellent imaging capabilities. Unfortunately, no one can tell you how much more (if at all) you'd enjoy an X9000 with a BHSE over your current setup. There are simply too many variables, including how much of a financial stretch $15k represents to you.


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## CT007 (Apr 18, 2022)

Opinions on this?


*Gungnir *+ Mjolnir *KGST *+ *007 MKII*? (all newest versions)

The amp is where I'm not _quite_ 100%, but it seems better than any new/rebuilt 007/006/717/727, Octave 2 and iESL. Maybe I would want a more neutral, detail oriented DAC for the 007?

My estat experience so far has been: Modi Multibit + SRM-252s + L300 / L300LTD + L700 pads, and I need a *LOT* better than that. . .


Why does everyone seem to prefer older version(s) of SR-007? Because you can get it cheaper..?


----------



## Petergrifindor

Finally after some months searching for all the components in second hand markets, in about two weeks I should officially be part of the Stax crew. A Stax 009s will arrive at home and I will have a complete HiFi Headphone set up, with the PS Directream DAC, the Stax T8000 and the 009s.

Well, almost complete, because I don't have the cables needed to connect the DAC with the amp. I would apreciate some help, because I don't have a clue about what to use. I know they should be a pair of short XLR cables, and I would like the quality to match somewhat the rest of components of the chain.

Any brands and models recommended? What do you use as interconnections in your TOTL electrostats  equipment?

Thanks a lot for your help.


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## martin778

I'm in the same boat at the moment, regarding XLR cables. Tried mogami 2534 with gold Neutriks but nope, the midrange is tiring and the treble is too dark.

I always found Audioquest a well balanced cable but my biggest issue are the turned XLR connectors, it's a nightmare make a thick XLR cable fit the connector.


----------



## musicman59

Petergrifindor said:


> Finally after some months searching for all the components in second hand markets, in about two weeks I should officially be part of the Stax crew. A Stax 009s will arrive at home and I will have a complete HiFi Headphone set up, with the PS Directream DAC, the Stax T8000 and the 009s.
> 
> Well, almost complete, because I don't have the cables needed to connect the DAC with the amp. I would apreciate some help, because I don't have a clue about what to use. I know they should be a pair of short XLR cables, and I would like the quality to match somewhat the rest of components of the chain.
> 
> ...


I used Kimber Kables Select KS-1116 which are the all copper cables. They provide me the level of detail and warmth I want in my system.


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## number1sixerfan

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> There's an x9000 sitting in the shop down the street, so there's no concern about shipping delays. I'd just feel more comfortable doing the demo with more experienced, non-bot observations.



If there's one just sitting and you have the funds, I would suggest you just buy it. With the high demand and delays, you could surely sell it for at or around the same price if you find it's not for you. Also, there's no telling when another may arrive if it sells. I would just go for it if financially feasible. 

Again it's hard to give much advice here when you're so new to it all. It doesn't sound like you have some sort of set preferences for us to recommend against. In general, the 009 is a bit brighter, with a high sense of clarity, and the x9000 is smoother in the highs and across the full spectrum. Both are extremely resolving.. x9000 is overall slightly higher performer, but there isn't some massive gap between the two. A bit larger gap between what you have now, but only you can assess how big it actually is after hearing them. (I have the L300, but haven't heard the L700, so I don't have any insight to offer there).


----------



## zomkung

FYI, The original T2 is selling on yahoo Japan


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## KDS315 (Apr 18, 2022)

zomkung said:


> FYI, The original T2 is selling on yahoo Japan


Of a shady 0-rated seller, yeah

A nice one was sold about a week ago for JPY 1.1 million - guess that attracted that seller now…


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## eskamobob1 (Apr 18, 2022)

number1sixerfan said:


> If there's one just sitting and you have the funds, I would suggest you just buy it. With the high demand and delays, you could surely sell it for at or around the same price if you find it's not for you. Also, there's no telling when another may arrive if it sells. I would just go for it if financially feasible.
> 
> Again it's hard to give much advice here when you're so new to it all. It doesn't sound like you have some sort of set preferences for us to recommend against. In general, the 009 is a bit brighter, with a high sense of clarity, and the x9000 is smoother in the highs and across the full spectrum. Both are extremely resolving.. x9000 is overall slightly higher performer, but there isn't some massive gap between the two. A bit larger gap between what you have now, but only you can assess how big it actually is after hearing them. (I have the L300, but haven't heard the L700, so I don't have any insight to offer there).


Honestly, I feel these is a solid gap between x9000 and 009 but it's not just raw resolution or image clarity but instead on a wholistic SQ level. X9000 has a much better timbre and the smoother FR allows for more organic presentation overall. Obv basically everything in this hobby is diminishing returns but I personaly view the jump in those qualities enoygh to call it a distinct tier up when looking wholisticaly. Obv this is also highly system dependant. I just haven't heard the 009 get these qualities to the levels present on the x9000 on BHSE  on any system I've tried 009 on


----------



## number1sixerfan

eskamobob1 said:


> Honestly, I feel these is a solid gap between x9000 and 009 but it's not just raw resolution or image clarity but instead on a wholistic SQ level. X9000 has a much better timbre and the smoother FR allows for more organic presentation overall. Obv basically everything in this hobby is diminishing returns but I personaly view the jump in those qualities enoygh to call it a distinct tier up when looking wholisticaly. Obv this is also highly system dependant. I just haven't heard the 009 get these qualities to the levels present on the x9000 on BHSE  on any system I've tried 009 on



Oh I definitely agree that there's a nice performance jump between it and the 009 and I do think the x9000 is a tier up; I just don't think I'd say it's massive. I would say the same for the TC/Susvara/Sr1a which I have in the same tier of the 009. But that's all totally subjective, I was more so just trying to put in perspective for someone newer that the performance jumps are not linear related to price differences.


----------



## eskamobob1

number1sixerfan said:


> Oh I definitely agree that there's a nice performance jump between it and the 009 and I do think the x9000 is a tier up; I just don't think I'd say it's massive. I would say the same for the TC/Susvara/Sr1a which I have in the same tier of the 009. But that's all totally subjective, I was more so just trying to put in perspective for someone newer that the performance jumps are not linear related to price differences.


Yah. Its all about what you personaly value. For me, the jump from hd800 to 009 is less valuable than the one from 009 to x9000 simply because I very highly value "completeness" or "coherency" to the sound that allows a can to be a great all arounder (which consequently is why I am not a fan of 1266). But if you are one that values raw resolution above all else the ultimately small jump in resolution between 009 and x9000 may mean that you would gain more personal value investing elsewhere in the chain. Tbh I find it super interesting just how much stax varies in sound as a brand overall. Realy there is just at least one great option for anyone in the market.


----------



## Chefguru

CT007 said:


> Opinions on this?
> 
> 
> *Gungnir *+ Mjolnir *KGST *+ *007 MKII*? (all newest versions)
> ...



I had the KGST for a year before I upgraded to the Carbon. I liked the pairing with the 009S but the KGST was harsher on the highs and didn’t have the solid feel of the Carbon. Bass was also much thinner.

For the 007 you’re better off going Mjolnir KGSSHV which doesn’t have the tuby/holographic effect but up until the Carbon’s invention, was essentially the best solid state offering for 007.

Dac is 👍🏻


----------



## SolarCetacean

BassicScience said:


> If someone reported that the X9000 has imaging and brightness issues, I'd question the amp or something in the setup. I found it to have superb tonal balance and excellent imaging capabilities. Unfortunately, no one can tell you how much more (if at all) you'd enjoy an X9000 with a BHSE over your current setup. There are simply too many variables, including how much of a financial stretch $15k represents to you.


That review was from Spritzer, running it off of a Carbon CC amp and Denafrips Terminator DAC. Definitely not a bad chain, but maybe not so suitable? Based on his comments, it seems like the brightness is due to some sort of resonance at a specific frequency, so if your tracks don't lean on that frequency or if you're not sensitive to that frequency, you'll never notice it. I've heard a similar phenomenon with my SR-L700mk2 vs my SGL Jr; the SGL is brighter overall, but there are specific areas on the L700mk2 with sharp peaks, so while normally the L700mk2 is a more relaxed listen, there are some tracks where it is harsher than the SGL. Also, Spritzer has mentioned elsewhere that his test tracks are mostly obscure Icelandic tracks, so it's hard to tell if it's that those tracks don't work well with the X9K vs an issue with the headphone in general.


----------



## BassicScience

SolarCetacean said:


> That review was from Spritzer, running it off of a Carbon CC amp and Denafrips Terminator DAC. Definitely not a bad chain, but maybe not so suitable? Based on his comments, it seems like the brightness is due to some sort of resonance at a specific frequency, so if your tracks don't lean on that frequency or if you're not sensitive to that frequency, you'll never notice it. I've heard a similar phenomenon with my SR-L700mk2 vs my SGL Jr; the SGL is brighter overall, but there are specific areas on the L700mk2 with sharp peaks, so while normally the L700mk2 is a more relaxed listen, there are some tracks where it is harsher than the SGL. Also, Spritzer has mentioned elsewhere that his test tracks are mostly obscure Icelandic tracks, so it's hard to tell if it's that those tracks don't work well with the X9K vs an issue with the headphone in general.


I listened to a wide variety of music on the X9000, so it's very likely that any sort of resonance peak would have shown up _at some point_. That said, my listening did *not *include any obscure Icelandic music.  It's possible that there were some synergistic issues with his chain, but I don't recall reading any reviews of those components that mentioned brightness, _per se_. BTW, I definitely agree that the SGL Jr. has an energetic, though never piercing, treble, and I would say it's clearly brighter overall than the X9000. Part of that impression is also due to the X9000's fuller bass. The SGL is somewhere in-between the SGL Jr. and X9000 on the brightness scale.


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile (Apr 19, 2022)

number1sixerfan said:


> If there's one just sitting and you have the funds, I would suggest you just buy it. With the high demand and delays, you could surely sell it for at or around the same price if you find it's not for you. Also, there's no telling when another may arrive if it sells. I would just go for it if financially feasible.
> 
> Again it's hard to give much advice here when you're so new to it all. It doesn't sound like you have some sort of set preferences for us to recommend against. In general, the 009 is a bit brighter, with a high sense of clarity, and the x9000 is smoother in the highs and across the full spectrum. Both are extremely resolving.. x9000 is overall slightly higher performer, but there isn't some massive gap between the two. A bit larger gap between what you have now, but only you can assess how big it actually is after hearing them. (I have the L300, but haven't heard the L700, so I don't have any insight to offer there).


It took me about a minute to process your first sentence, but it actually makes a lot of sense. Many thanks for that, along with your impressions.

And yes, as several have noted, I know so little that it's hard to give me any impressions at all. That's a fair response, though I still welcome the comments, which are helpful. I'm just in a unique place in life where I would never, ever, ever be able to get into this audio world otherwise, and I want to make the most of my opportunity.

My wife thought the l500 with a Node and a 252 was the best sound she'd ever heard...then we both hated the l500/D50/PC set up...THEN we thought the l700/Node/DMX-DAC/400s was the best sound, albeit with (of course) diminishing returns. We're ok with diminishing returns here, we know how that game works. And we both know that we'll pay (and pay, and pay) for an x9000s setup, but we also know that we'll appreciate "best-sounding" headphones over many years of listening. It's already brought us closer together as we embark on evening listening sessions after the kids are asleep, learning how each other's ears work, learning how to hear more.

One thing I do have some concern over is how long it might take to get a top-level amp. The more I read, the more clear is it that Stax-made amps are somehow lacking in recent years. And a Blue Hawaii takes a month from order to delivery, right?


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

BassicScience said:


> I listened to a wide variety of music on the X9000, so it's very likely that any sort of resonance peak would have shown up _at some point_. That said, my listening did *not *include any obscure Icelandic music.  It's possible that there were some synergistic issues with his chain, but I don't recall reading any reviews of those components that mentioned brightness, _per se_. BTW, I definitely agree that the SGL Jr. has an energetic, though never piercing, treble, and I would say it's clearly brighter overall than the X9000. Part of that impression is also due to the X9000's fuller bass. The SGL is somewhere in-between the SGL Jr. and X9000 on the brightness scale.


I've read several reviews that HiFiMan products are kind of like Hyundais from 15 years ago, in that they look superb and "drive" amazing...until something breaks, which will be one day after the warranty elapses.


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile (Apr 19, 2022)

After testing the x9000 today (and after reviewing the helpful comments here), I am--of course--conflicted. Definitely, there's a jump up from the l700mk2. Definitely, going from 5k to 15k in expenses gives me pause. Definitely, I'm paying a premium for not studying audio engineering in college.

But the x9000s sounded like audio without flaws, without wrinkles, and made me notice stuff in the l700s that I don't love.

I used a 700T and a Moon 280 streamer/DAC combo with the x9000s. The streamer/DAC were great...the 700T I wasn't sure what to think, given that nearly everything I've read indicates that that amp underserves the x9000s, and that I should aspire towards a T8000, Blue Hawaii SE, Carbon, etc. For a T8000 ordered from this shop, I'd need to get on a six-month waitlist.

A possible plan would be to pick up the x9000s, the Moon 280 and the 700T, with the intention of someday upgrading the amp--but I'd only want to do that if I was confident that a) the 700T does a perfectly good job, and b) I'll be able to afford that next-step-up amp. Neither of those two things are guarantees.


----------



## musicman59

I would contact Justin to get information on delivery of a BHSE. If it’s really one month under current supply chain circumstances that is great and will go fast.

I have been waiting for 5 1/2 months for my X9000 and still have another 2 more if lucky…

I would be concern on buying the 700T and then having problems to sell to upgrade.

If you like the X9000 I would secure them now and contact Justin.


----------



## bearFNF

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> One thing I do have some concern over is how long it might take to get a top-level amp. The more I read, the more clear is it that Stax-made amps are somehow lacking in recent years. And a Blue Hawaii takes a month from order to delivery, right?


LOL, just LOL, if its only a month to get a custom, Top tier, very high quality amp, then count your blessings for being VERY VERY lucky. Like @musicman59 said, contact HeadAmp (Justin) and ask about the lead time. I waited two+ years for mine (early batches took a very long time to build) and was not unhappy with the results.


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

bearFNF said:


> LOL, just LOL, if its only a month to get a custom, Top tier, very high quality amp, then count your blessings for being VERY VERY lucky. Like @musicman59 said, contact HeadAmp (Justin) and ask about the lead time. I waited two+ years for mine (early batches took a very long time to build) and was not unhappy with the results.


The LOL is warranted I'm definitely thankful for people who can be blunt about my lack of perspective... I'm vaguely aware that half of my words are moronic, minimum.


----------



## eskamobob1

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> I've read several reviews that HiFiMan products are kind of like Hyundais from 15 years ago, in that they look superb and "drive" amazing...until something breaks, which will be one day after the warranty elapses.


Nah. More like a tesla. Absolutely horrible qc but fantastic cs. All hifiman failures I know of have happened very shortly after purchase, never after an extended period


----------



## number1sixerfan

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> It took me about a minute to process your first sentence, but it actually makes a lot of sense. Many thanks for that, along with your impressions.
> 
> And yes, as several have noted, I know so little that it's hard to give me any impressions at all. That's a fair response, though I still welcome the comments, which are helpful. I'm just in a unique place in life where I would never, ever, ever be able to get into this audio world otherwise, and I want to make the most of my opportunity.




It's all good, it sounds like you're thinking through it all pretty reasonably. Hope it all works out. As others said, I would just go for a BHSE or Carbon as soon as you can find one. 

One thing though, you keep alluding to a $15k price tag. The x9000 shouldn't be anywhere near that, more like $6k. Not sure what currency or area you're in or if I'm missing something.


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

number1sixerfan said:


> It's all good, it sounds like you're thinking through it all pretty reasonably. Hope it all works out. As others said, I would just go for a BHSE or Carbon as soon as you can find one.
> 
> One thing though, you keep alluding to a $15k price tag. The x9000 shouldn't be anywhere near that, more like $6k. Not sure what currency or area you're in or if I'm missing something.


Well, everything is Europe gets a minimum 20% bump up in costs. But what I mean is this, roughly in dollars:

-streamer and DAC (4k for the Moon 280 recommended to me today)
-x9000s (8k in the Netherlands)
-and then that amp...


----------



## eskamobob1

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> Well, everything is Europe gets a minimum 20% bump up in costs. But what I mean is this, roughly in dollars:
> 
> -streamer and DAC (4k for the Moon 280 recommended to me today)
> -x9000s (8k in the Netherlands)
> -and then that amp...


There are quote a few better options than the moon in that price range fwiw


----------



## number1sixerfan

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> Well, everything is Europe gets a minimum 20% bump up in costs. But what I mean is this, roughly in dollars:
> 
> -streamer and DAC (4k for the Moon 280 recommended to me today)
> -x9000s (8k in the Netherlands)
> -and then that amp...




Ahh the entire system, gotcha. Makes sense.


----------



## KDS315

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> Well, everything is Europe gets a minimum 20% bump up in costs. But what I mean is this, roughly in dollars:
> 
> -streamer and DAC (4k for the Moon 280 recommended to me today)
> -x9000s (8k in the Netherlands)
> -and then that amp...


There are possibilities in Europe. I sent you a PM...


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

eskamobob1 said:


> There are quote a few better options than the moon in that price range fwiw


I'd happily take a streamer-DAC recommendation.


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

eskamobob1 said:


> There are quote a few better options than the moon in that price range fwiw


https://www.headfonia.com/naim-uniti-atom-headphone-edition-review/3/ as an example?


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## KDS315 (Apr 19, 2022)

I would recommend a good Roon server with a quiet power supply depending on budget. The Bluesound NODE will not be appropriate to serve an X9000.

Personally I’m happy with my ROON ROCK and RME ADI-2 DAC.


----------



## martin778 (Apr 19, 2022)

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> Just a quick response to the respondents to my post--comments about trusting my own ears and enjoying the journey are totally valid...that said, I really would welcome subjective opinions.
> 
> I may be misrepresenting how I make an audio (or any) decision. To clarify: I don't copy and paste the opinions of others, then go buy what someone else tells me to do. I'm one tier higher than that in the "fool and his money" spectrum
> 
> ...


And as an (ex-)owner of many, many different Staxes and now 007mk2 and X9000 I will tell you that they *all *are too bright, with the old Lambda's being the worst. The newer ones at least have the quality to the treble that makes the overdone treble less obvious (more airy for some LOL). This is how opinions can differ.
Fun experiment - listen to any Stax and then quickly swap it for a HD600-650. The second will be near unlistenable, ha.

Regarding the 700T, I'd say it's fine but a bit rough, the T8000 is darker, more 'mature' as some would say. Following the general consensus of SS vs tube sound it should've been otherwise but there we go.


----------



## DeweyCH

The natural thing happened, and I am now the owner of a pair of L700 mk2s and a Woo WEE. WEE is connected to the speaker taps on my Mogwai SE (I'll try with the Timekeeper tonight). They sound excellent. Hard to say what's new-toy-syndrome - which I have in spades - but they really do sound excellent.


----------



## number1sixerfan

martin778 said:


> And as an (ex-)owner of many, many different Staxes and now 007mk2 and X9000 I will tell you that they *all *are too bright, with the old Lambda's being the worst. The newer ones at least have the quality to the treble that makes the overdone treble less obvious (more airy for some LOL). This is how opinions can differ.
> Fun experiment - listen to any Stax and then quickly swap it for a HD600-650. The second will be near unlistenable, ha.
> 
> Regarding the 700T, I'd say it's fine but a bit rough, the T8000 is darker, more 'mature' as some would say. Following the general consensus of SS vs tube sound it should've been otherwise but there we go.



I do generally agree that most stats in general are brighter than non-stats. More treble energy, clarity etc. This is the second time however that I've heard the 007 MK2 is bright, and it's just really surprising to me given how warm and borderline dark the MK1 is (I know they differ from the MK1 in other ways). Very interesting. 

I think if you find the x9000 bright, you might just prefer a warmer and darker sound, which the HD650 definitely has. It's so much more relaxed than the average stat--and definitely beyond what I prefer. I prefer the general stat presentation that's a bit more forward/neutral in positioning with a bit more treble energy, although it does come at the tradeoff of brightness to varying degrees. Definitely not as warm and thick as my MK1, but definitely is warmer/more relaxed than the 009/L300/HE60/SGL I have on hand.


----------



## eskamobob1

number1sixerfan said:


> I think if you find the x9000 bright, you might just prefer a warmer and darker soun


I think this will also depend on the chain tbh. For example on WES I certainly found x9000 leaning bright but on bhse it was much more balanced (same with 009S).


----------



## catscratch (Apr 19, 2022)

Well I can only report on my current 007A, which was purchased around 2015-2016, but it has a lot of treble emphasis past 10khz, though it has a dip in the lower treble around 5. It's definitely different from the Mk1, which was dark in general but with a peak around 10k.

Yes, I do prefer the HD650 sound and equalize everything to have a similar response, but I also take that into consideration in comparisons. For instance, the L700 has more lower treble sharpness than the 007A, with a peak at 5.5khz where the 007 has a dip, but it's also less bright past 10k.


----------



## number1sixerfan

eskamobob1 said:


> I think this will also depend on the chain tbh. For example on WES I certainly found x9000 leaning bright but on bhse it was much more balanced (same with 009S).



That's so odd, as the WES is definitely a bit warmer than the BHSE. But definitely agree that ultimately it comes down to the overall chain.


----------



## eskamobob1

number1sixerfan said:


> That's so odd, as the WES is definitely a bit warmer than the BHSE. But definitely agree that ultimately it comes down to the overall chain.


Yah, I see this said a lot. I do wonder if maybe the Wes I have access to (at tsav) has something going on with it but it's on stock tubes. Ultimately its super airy and not super well controlled imo. It is a bit warm in the mid range but ends up being quite flat texture wise which makes it kinda moot tbh


----------



## CT007

DeweyCH said:


> I am now the owner of a pair of L700 mk2s and a Woo WEE. they really do sound excellent.


Went for L700 over 007? Or you didn't like how 007 sounded?


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

Current or former BHSE owners:

Did/do you have a preference for the DACT 24-STEP versus ALPS RK50 STEPLESS volume controls?

A thousand bucks extra for granular volume is difficult to stomach, no?


----------



## nepherte

I found the ALPS RK50 to be well worth the money.


----------



## DeweyCH

CT007 said:


> Went for L700 over 007? Or you didn't like how 007 sounded?


Honestly a non trivial amount of the decision was that I wanted my first e-stats to have that classic Stax look. Also I wanted to use a new energizer with my existing amps and Woo recommends against the WEE with 007/009.


----------



## DeweyCH

DeweyCH said:


> Honestly a non trivial amount of the decision was that I wanted my first e-stats to have that classic Stax look. Also I wanted to use a new energizer with my existing amps and Woo recommends against the WEE with 007/009.


Also I like a more analytical sound, so the l700 signature appealed more than the apparently warmer 007


----------



## CT007

DeweyCH said:


> Also I like a more analytical sound, so the l700 signature appealed more than the apparently warmer 007


Very interesting... Yes, L700 and 007 are the 2 that I would/will choose to try/buy. But that L700 better be a _hell _of a lot better than L300/300LTD. . .


----------



## DeweyCH

CT007 said:


> Very interesting... Yes, L700 and 007 are the 2 that I would/will choose to try/buy. But that L700 better be a _hell _of a lot better than L300/300LTD. . .


I picked it because it’s apparently got a membrane more along the lines of the 007/009. Reviews called it the mini-009. It sounds really good, extremely detailed, possibly beyond the Susvara but I haven’t given it enough heads time


----------



## bearFNF

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> Current or former BHSE owners:
> 
> Did/do you have a preference for the DACT 24-STEP versus ALPS RK50 STEPLESS volume controls?
> 
> A thousand bucks extra for granular volume is difficult to stomach, no?


I also found the Alps well worth the money. Never have liked "stepped" volume control.


----------



## CT007

Can anyone say - 007 MK2 and L700 vs *Edition XS* or Arya Stealth? Are the Stax less bright/fatiguing? I would think so, with that _effortless _sound quality.


----------



## DeweyCH

L700 mk2 via WEE fed by the speaker taps in a Burson Timekeeper 3ir: *chef's kiss*

Plenty of juice, and I'm starting to see what this whole estat thing is about.


----------



## zomkung

CT007 said:


> Can anyone say - 007 MK2 and L700 vs *Edition XS* or Arya Stealth? Are the Stax less bright/fatiguing? I would think so, with that _effortless _sound quality.



I have all of that except L700

007 is the warmest among these.


----------



## CT007

zomkung said:


> I have all of that except L700





zomkung said:


> 007 is the warmest among these.


But what about general sound fatigue between 007/Arya Stealth/XS? Treble fatigue/sharpness/peaks?


----------



## martin778

Do you guys think the HEV90 would still put up a fight against 009S/X9000 or is this more of a collector's item / statement product nowadays? I wonder if anyone can replace or repair the panels on HE90?


----------



## Chefguru

martin778 said:


> Do you guys think the HEV90 would still put up a fight against 009S/X9000 or is this more of a collector's item / statement product nowadays? I wonder if anyone can replace or repair the panels on HE90?


Hev90 the amp? It pairs well with the 009s, but is not in the tier 1 of amps. Carbon/BHSE/Megatron are a level above.

The he90? Yes, absolutely. Wish this was still available. CRBN is sort of similar but without the “sweet” sound.


----------



## martin778

I was referring to the complete HE/HEV setup indeed.


----------



## OkPsychology

Hey friends! 

I'm a complete idiot when it comes to this stuff, but I have a Woo Wee that I intend to sell tout de suite. I wanted someone with more knowledge than me (that's quite a low bar, admittedly) to verify that this thing has a ballast resistor and is safe for the next owner. I only used it a handful of times myself (got it in a trade last year) and then acquired a Mjolnir SRD-7 shortly thereafter. I'm still using the SRD-7, but the Wee has been sitting on a shelf for some time. I'd be happy to recoup a few bucks and pass it along to another member here, but would like to do so with a clear conscience, if you catch my drift.

So, here are some photos. I believe the square box with the yellow wires connected to the STAX Pro sockets is indeed the resistor. Would somebody be so kind as to verify this for me?

Thank you so much in advance.


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## KDS315 (Apr 24, 2022)

OkPsychology said:


> Hey friends!
> 
> I'm a complete idiot when it comes to this stuff, but I have a Woo Wee that I intend to sell tout de suite. I wanted someone with more knowledge than me (that's quite a low bar, admittedly) to verify that this thing has a ballast resistor and is safe for the next owner. I only used it a handful of times myself (got it in a trade last year) and then acquired a Mjolnir SRD-7 shortly thereafter. I'm still using the SRD-7, but the Wee has been sitting on a shelf for some time. I'd be happy to recoup a few bucks and pass it along to another member here, but would like to do so with a clear conscience, if you catch my drift.
> 
> ...


Don't think so: two of those square boxes are shielded transformers to up the signal from the speakers. The third one is a metal shielded AC line transformer which provides the high voltage to generate bias, which then is rectified by a diode array (box with yellow cables) and smoothed using capacitor(s) to the needed PRO DC 580V bias voltage.


----------



## Eich1eeF

OkPsychology said:


> Hey friends!
> 
> I'm a complete idiot when it comes to this stuff, but I have a Woo Wee that I intend to sell tout de suite. I wanted someone with more knowledge than me (that's quite a low bar, admittedly) to verify that this thing has a ballast resistor and is safe for the next owner. I only used it a handful of times myself (got it in a trade last year) and then acquired a Mjolnir SRD-7 shortly thereafter. I'm still using the SRD-7, but the Wee has been sitting on a shelf for some time. I'd be happy to recoup a few bucks and pass it along to another member here, but would like to do so with a clear conscience, if you catch my drift.
> 
> ...


as KDS315 pointed out, the object you're probably referring to (marked below) should be a rectifier. The resistor you're looking for should be cylindrical, with one wire on each end, and very roughtly 1cm long and 2-3mm in diameter, and I see no such thing between the rectifier and the headphone sockets.


----------



## OkPsychology

Thank you @KDS315 and @Eich1eeF for the replies. I guess I’ll knock a few bucks off the price and sell it with the disclaimer that it really ought to be modded before use. I appreciate your input!


----------



## tjlindle (Apr 24, 2022)

CT007 said:


> But what about general sound fatigue between 007/Arya Stealth/XS? Treble fatigue/sharpness/peaks?


I have owned the Hifimans you mention - "fatigue" is hard to discuss since it is specific to each person, but for me the 007 is less fatiguing than either of those, especially the Arya.

If you don't want to invest kilobucks into a 007 system but want a non-fatiguing 'stat, try the Kaldas Research RR1 Conquest which can be bought for $500 brand new and is a lot easier to amp.

If you stay with Hifiman then I recommend stretching past the Arya to the HE1000se, it is not far from the Susvara's sound quality while being significantly less of a prima donna in terms of amping it.

EDIT: And yea in general terms the best of those four headphones (3 above + the L700) is the 007 but it needs to be amped appropriately, if you don't want to do that then save your money and just get the Edition XS which is great and also the cheapest. L700 is also very good but if you're concerned about treble fatigue and don't EQ, it could be an issue.


----------



## CT007 (Apr 24, 2022)

tjlindle said:


> And yea in general terms the best of those four headphones (3 above + the L700) is the 007 but it needs to be amped appropriately, if you don't want to do that then save your money and just get the Edition XS which is great and also the cheapest. L700 is also very good but if you're concerned about treble fatigue and don't EQ, it could be an issue.


I am going for Gungnir + KGSSHV(or KGST?) + 007, which should be pretty great, from what people are saying. I found XS _quite _excellent technically, but I'd like something a little warmer and smoother/relaxed. Too much treble emphasis/fatigue for me.


----------



## BTD1

Has anyone recently put 009 pads on a 007? Is this still considered an inexpensive way to improve the clarity of the 007s?


----------



## lostrockets

tjlindle said:


> I have owned the Hifimans you mention - "fatigue" is hard to discuss since it is specific to each person, but for me the 007 is less fatiguing than either of those, especially the Arya.
> 
> If you don't want to invest kilobucks into a 007 system but want a non-fatiguing 'stat, try the Kaldas Research RR1 Conquest which can be bought for $500 brand new and is a lot easier to amp.
> 
> ...



How do the kaldas compare to the 007s and 009s ?


----------



## tjlindle (Apr 24, 2022)

CT007 said:


> I am going for Gungnir + KGSSHV(or KGST?) + 007, which should be pretty great, from what people are saying. I found XS _quite _excellent technically, but I'd like something a little warmer and smoother/relaxed. Too much treble emphasis/fatigue for me.


That's an awesome setup and it will deliver exactly what you want by the sounds of it!

And yea the XS is a great headphone. It is my go-to recommendation for the $500 and under budget range nowadays.

For $500 you can barely scrape together a really awesome 'stat setup (SR-5 or SR-X Mk 3, SRD-7 transformer, ~$150 Class D speaker amp to power the SRD-7 from) but that is a tough ask for most people when they can just get a XS and power it from their phone.

I have been listening a lot to the SR-5 recently - at its current street price of $150-200, it is one of the best deals you can get with estats. Yea its bass extension leaves a lot to be desired, but I'm not sure you can do better than an SR-5 in the sub-$200 range when it comes to resolution, transparency, and timbre. A bass shelf EQ also helps with the low-end.


lostrockets said:


> How do the kaldas compare to the 007s and 009s ?


It is outclassed in basically every technical metric like resolution and soundstage/headstage by both, but to my ear it has more organic tonality and timbre than the 009 and it delivers a comparable lush, thick sound to the 007.

So I would not put it in the Omega-tier, but they are very respectable and have a unique sound, and they cost a fraction of the price. It is in the same tier as the best Stax that aren't Omegas (e.g. L700, Lambda Sig, 404LE).

For me it also has a lot of added value specifically because it sounds unique - the majority of Stax's historical lineup are Lambdas and at the end of the day, they all deliver a certain "Lambda sound" even if there are notable variations. The RR1 on the other hand doesn't sound _anything _like a Lambda, in fact if it wasn't for the 007 it wouldn't sound like any Stax period. It is dark, thick, and euphonic, if anything it is sort of like an HD 650 except turned into an estat and given better technical qualities.

The RR1 and NectarSound Hive are both very underrated in my opinion especially at their price points of $500 and $600 respectively. At this point I have heard most estats in the sub $1000 range, vintage or otherwise - the RR1 and Hive really outclass their price points, and you can buy them brand new with warranty/customer service to boot.

The next non-Stax estat I want to try is the ES-1A which @bigjako has told me about and sounds really excellent. I have high hopes for that, my only concern is the weight since Audeze in the past have been non-starters for me due to weight discomfort.

Right now I have an ES-Sigma with L700 drivers on the way. I am excited to try that and compare it to the stock L700 I owned until recently, I feel like the Sigma enclosure will actually alleviate some of the issues I had with the L700 and could potentially turn it into my favorite non-Omega Stax. I will report back once I've put it through its paces


----------



## lostrockets (Apr 25, 2022)

tjlindle said:


> That's an awesome setup and it will deliver exactly what you want by the sounds of it!
> 
> And yea the XS is a great headphone. It is my go-to recommendation for the $500 and under budget range nowadays.
> 
> ...



Good to hear, im curious now that you say the kaldas are like the nectars. Are they pretty much neck in neck? If not how are they different?

Ive heard nectars before and agree the sound is excellent at that price point. Same with the xs, just a little uncomfortable with unreliability of hifiman products so let them go.

I recently got the es1a and may put them up for sale. If you know the sound signature you prefer you might find them your end game. And regarding weight, they do feel lighter and more comfortable than the audeze i tried (lcd x, and 2)

In my limited listening, I like them for certain types of music like jazz and classical most and as i listen more have begun to realize i really like the 007s relaxed listening for all types of music.


----------



## zomkung

tjlindle said:


> That's an awesome setup and it will deliver exactly what you want by the sounds of it!
> 
> And yea the XS is a great headphone. It is my go-to recommendation for the $500 and under budget range nowadays.
> 
> ...



The ES-Sigma with L700 drivers looks pretty nice.

I would like to get one. Would you mind giving some review?

Thank you!


----------



## martin778

Anyone tried tube rolling the T8000? Will it take E88CC's?


----------



## kevin gilmore

do not roll tubes in t8000 unless they are matched section to section to 1%. and then you need to carefully set all the dc and servo pots. you will need 2 voltmeters to do this.


----------



## Zoide (Apr 25, 2022)

tjlindle said:


> I have owned the Hifimans you mention - "fatigue" is hard to discuss since it is specific to each person, but for me the 007 is less fatiguing than either of those, especially the Arya.
> 
> If you don't want to invest kilobucks into a 007 system but want a non-fatiguing 'stat, try the Kaldas Research RR1 Conquest which can be bought for $500 brand new and is a lot easier to amp.
> 
> ...


What about the Nectar Hive X?

EDIT: Oops, just realized you already mentioned it a few posts above: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/post-16932248



lostrockets said:


> Ive heard nectars before and agree the sound is excellent at that price point


How do they compare to the other cans you have tried? Thanks


----------



## bigjako

lostrockets said:


> Good to hear, im curious now that you say the kaldas are like the nectars. Are they pretty much neck in neck? If not how are they different?
> 
> Ive heard nectars before and agree the sound is excellent at that price point. Same with the xs, just a little uncomfortable with unreliability of hifiman products so let them go.
> 
> ...



I have had 2 pairs of Kaldas and one Nectar, but haven't had them side by side and in both cases it was more than a year ago.  I think the Nectars sound to me, like how   tjlindle describes the Kaldas - like mid-centric 6XX's, whereas the Kaldas sounded to me more like LCD-2s.  They really rumble.  I just found I preferred the Lambda sound, and felt with both the Nectar and Kaldas like they were electrostatic in technology, but sounded more dynamic (or planar).  If I ONLY had an electrostatic setup, then they would be great counterpoints to both the Lambdas and the ES-1a, but I have a nice dynamic setup and felt like I'd rather get that sound from that setup while optimizing my estat setup for the Staxen and ES-1a.


----------



## lostrockets

bigjako said:


> I have had 2 pairs of Kaldas and one Nectar, but haven't had them side by side and in both cases it was more than a year ago.  I think the Nectars sound to me, like how   tjlindle describes the Kaldas - like mid-centric 6XX's, whereas the Kaldas sounded to me more like LCD-2s.  They really rumble.  I just found I preferred the Lambda sound, and felt with both the Nectar and Kaldas like they were electrostatic in technology, but sounded more dynamic (or planar).  If I ONLY had an electrostatic setup, then they would be great counterpoints to both the Lambdas and the ES-1a, but I have a nice dynamic setup and felt like I'd rather get that sound from that setup while optimizing my estat setup for the Staxen and ES-1a.


good points you make! curious what led to you having two pairs of the kaldas?


----------



## bigjako

lostrockets said:


> good points you make! curious what led to you having two pairs of the kaldas?


I had one early on, off an old portable Stax amp and didn't love it and sold it.  

Then after I got a better amp, I wanted to hear it again, and found a good deal. But even after the second round I just stuck to the Lambdas.  I thought maybe they would scale with a better amp, but ultimately I just moved on from it.  I don't think they're bad at all, I just kept exploring.  

Similar story for the Nectars (I listened to them on the BH Stat, which was almost designed for the Nectars, I believe) but was worried that, without dust protection, they were ticking time bombs for me.


----------



## lostrockets

so do you think itd be a backwards step going from a 007 and es1a to  kaldas or just a different flavor?


----------



## hewlett168

Do the 009/009s pads fit directly on the 007mk2?


----------



## number1sixerfan

lostrockets said:


> I recently got the es1a and may put them up for sale. If you know the sound signature you prefer you might find them your end game. And regarding weight, they do feel lighter and more comfortable than the audeze i tried (lcd x, and 2)
> 
> In my limited listening, I like them for certain types of music like jazz and classical most and as i listen more have begun to realize i really like the 007s relaxed listening for all types of music.



What was it that you liked and disliked about them? Sound like they may sound more traditionally stat like than say the 007? I have a pair on order, just had to try it given the really attractive price.


----------



## bigjako (Apr 25, 2022)

lostrockets said:


> so do you think itd be a backwards step going from a 007 and es1a to  kaldas or just a different flavor?


I have to qualify this statement by saying that I love my Lambdas, first the L300 LE and second the NB. It is the prototypical airy, shimmery electrostatic Stax sound that I love and can find no other earspeaker that captures that.

I most often listen to the ES1a on the Carbon and the L300 LE on the Electra and I wouldn’t sell the LE even if the ES1a is ‘better’. They’re just quite different experiences but both awesome in their own way.

So my point is that yes, the ES1a and 007 are better than the Kaldas. Actually in that specific case I think the 007 reminded me more of the Kaldas, just with more detail and more mid bass.   But I would encourage you to get a counterpoint to either the 007 or the Kaldas, which are warmer than the Lambdas, so getting an L300 for $3-400 will give you a different flavor, but in my opinion it’s not really about better or worse, just different.  And I get that the 007s are “better” than the Lambdas in every measurable way. 

But I love my Lambdas and I think I have 5 of them in use or stored away.


----------



## Zoide

lostrockets said:


> Good to hear, im curious now that you say the kaldas are like the nectars. Are they pretty much neck in neck? If not how are they different?
> 
> Ive heard nectars before and agree the sound is excellent at that price point. Same with the xs, just a little uncomfortable with unreliability of hifiman products so let them go.
> 
> ...





bigjako said:


> I have to qualify this statement by saying that I love my Lambdas, first the L300 LE and second the NB. It is the prototypical airy, shimmery electrostatic Stax sound that I love and can find no other earspeaker that captures that.
> 
> I most often listen to the ES1a on the Carbon and the L300 LE on the Electra and I wouldn’t sell the LE even if the ES1a is ‘better’. They’re just quite different experiences but both awesome in their own way.
> 
> ...


How did the Nectar Hive compare, other than the dust problem? Thanks


----------



## bigjako

To be clear, I never had any problems with my Hive, dust or otherwise, and Sajeev is a great guy.  But yeah, the fact that they didn’t have dust covers and I live in a smoggy dusty city worried me.  The Nectars were much more mid centric, less air and shimmer, but they didn’t have the Kaldas’ sub bass. That’s why I think of them as the estat 6XX.  

I’d say the L300, the Kaldas and the Hive are near equals technically - one has air and shimmer and the extra detail that that brings, the next has sub bass and warmth and the third had ‘sweet’ mids but rolled off on the bottom and the top.  Pick your flavor.


----------



## lostrockets

number1sixerfan said:


> What was it that you liked and disliked about them? Sound like they may sound more traditionally stat like than say the 007? I have a pair on order, just had to try it given the really attractive price.


im working on writing a review, will post in the next week or so


----------



## ufospls2

If any stax people out there in head-fi land are looking to sell a Mjolnir Audio KGSSHV Carbon, please give me a shout.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/mjolnir-audio-kgsshv-carbon.24612/


----------



## Zoide

bigjako said:


> To be clear, I never had any problems with my Hive, dust or otherwise, and Sajeev is a great guy.  But yeah, the fact that they didn’t have dust covers and I live in a smoggy dusty city worried me.  The Nectars were much more mid centric, less air and shimmer, but they didn’t have the Kaldas’ sub bass. That’s why I think of them as the estat 6XX.
> 
> I’d say the L300, the Kaldas and the Hive are near equals technically - one has air and shimmer and the extra detail that that brings, the next has sub bass and warmth and the third had ‘sweet’ mids but rolled off on the bottom and the top.  Pick your flavor.


Thanks.

It's weird to hear that the Nectars are rolled off on the bottom though, since the charts show it extending straight down to the lowest frequencies (https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/nectar-hive/).

It's one of the things that tempts me about getting them versus my current L700.


----------



## bigjako

Zoide said:


> Thanks.
> 
> It's weird to hear that the Nectars are rolled off on the bottom though, since the charts show it extending straight down to the lowest frequencies (https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/nectar-hive/).
> 
> It's one of the things that tempts me about getting them versus my current L700.


I am happy to be wrong here, but to my ears, clearly the Kaldas has the sub-bass rumble reminiscent of the LCD-2Cs and the Nectar didn't have that rumble and didn't have the slam that others do.  So my best translation between the chart and my ears is that the sound may have been there, but it wasn't dynamic or punchy.  I don't think anyone would say that the Hive had great rumble or slam, and it didn't quite punch like the 007s or ES-1a.  To be fair, it punched harder than the Lambdas and had a warmer overall tone - but it didn't have the treble extension and shimmer up top, and at least compared to the Kaldas, I didn't feel a lot of bass weight.


----------



## SolarCetacean

Zoide said:


> Thanks.
> 
> It's weird to hear that the Nectars are rolled off on the bottom though, since the charts show it extending straight down to the lowest frequencies (https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/nectar-hive/).
> 
> It's one of the things that tempts me about getting them versus my current L700.


I think crinacle is somehow able to get perfect seal on his measurement rig which I cannot reproduce on my end. His measurement of the Shangri-La Jr also showed basically perfect extension, but when I measured my unit on my EARS rig, it showed a roll-off below 70 Hz. It also audibly rolled off to my ears. So perhaps crinacle's measurements are more of an "ideal state" which might not hold up in practice.


----------



## CT007

What are your guys' strategies for estat storage? When I had my L300, I kept it in a plastic grocery bag.


----------



## KDS315 (Apr 27, 2022)

CT007 said:


> What are your guys' strategies for estat storage? When I had my L300, I kept it in a plastic grocery bag.


Don’t you know the STAX product range? The CPC-1 has looong been on the market though :LOL: I have and use 10 or so of them…


----------



## capetownwatches

I think OP may be referring to long term storage.
In which case I cannot assist as my L-500 has never been off my desk...
Using Gravity stand and the ubiquitous CPC-1.


----------



## KDS315

Some say for long term storage the original STAX box is best, like what my 007 and 009 came in.


----------



## capetownwatches

KDS315 said:


> Some say for long term storage the original STAX box is best, like what my 007 and 009 came in.


That makes sense, however the L-500 and L-700 come in lowly polystyrene packaging.
It's a PITA to get them back in there as well.


----------



## CT007

I just mean daily storage or whatever. Whenever you swap to other headphones for a while or whatever. I guess you can have dust cleaned out, if it builds up too much or something?


----------



## KDS315 (Apr 27, 2022)

CT007 said:


> I just mean daily storage or whatever. Whenever you swap to other headphones for a while or whatever. I guess you can have dust cleaned out, if it builds up too much or something?


STAX CPC-1 plus a (STAX HPS-2) stand is the answer - as already mentioned…😉


----------



## elton7033

KDS315 said:


> STAX CPC-1 plus a (STAX HPS-2) stand is the answer - as already mentioned…😉


these questions just coming back again and again
we should have it hard code on the stax board lol
Thus, should use dusk cover


----------



## capetownwatches

You don't want to have to be cleaning dust out of your transducers.
Rather just take reasonable, easy precautions and protect your (rather fragile) investment.
CPC-1 costs about $20 IIRC. No-brainer.


----------



## Tachikoma (Apr 27, 2022)

bigjako said:


> To be clear, I never had any problems with my Hive, dust or otherwise, and Sajeev is a great guy.  But yeah, the fact that they didn’t have dust covers and I live in a smoggy dusty city worried me.  The Nectars were much more mid centric, less air and shimmer, but they didn’t have the Kaldas’ sub bass. That’s why I think of them as the estat 6XX.
> 
> I’d say the L300, the Kaldas and the Hive are near equals technically - one has air and shimmer and the extra detail that that brings, the next has sub bass and warmth and the third had ‘sweet’ mids but rolled off on the bottom and the top.  Pick your flavor.


Interesting... so the Nectar Hive sounds a little bit like the old SR-5 and SR-X?


----------



## tumpux

It’s 2022 and people still refer to their toys as an investment.


----------



## capetownwatches (Apr 27, 2022)

tumpux said:


> It’s 2022 and people still refer to their toys as an investment.


I suppose with a moniker like tumpux I shouldn't expect much but I wonder if you are aware of just how snarky your statement is?
Firstly, I'm not "people".
Secondly, what does the year have to do with anything? Has the human race evolved any in the last 100 years??

Let me count the ways in which my Stax are in fact an investment, and a very good one at that.
I'm not sure what part of Planet Entitlement you come from, but I had to work hard to afford my "toys".
They bring me pleasure and relaxation every time I power them up. They are an investment in my ongoing mental health.
They educate me and exercise parts of my brain that reward me for it. I look after them because of this, because I value what they offer me.

So yes, I will absolutely continue to view my Stax as an investment and I won't have some supercilious X'er attempt to denigrate that in any way, shape or form.


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

capetownwatches said:


> I suppose with a moniker like tumpux I shouldn't expect much but I wonder if you are aware of just how snarky your statement is?
> Firstly, I'm not "people".
> Secondly, what does the year have to do with anything? Has the human race evolved any in the last 100 years??
> 
> ...


I agree with this post...but can't something so wonderful be BOTH a hard-earned investment as well as a much-to-be-played-with toy?


----------



## capetownwatches

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> I agree with this post...but can't something so wonderful be BOTH a hard-earned investment as well as a much-to-be-played-with toy?


Absolutely it can! What I took exception to was the inference that my referring to gear as an investment was somehow out of touch with current reality.
It totally smacks of an instant gratification mindset - easy come, easy go. Nothing lasts, nothing is of value. Nothing is worth actually breaking a sweat for.

Apologies if I've come on a bit strong, but perhaps this has touched a nerve.


----------



## dynavit

Maybe for some "people" an investment can't be nothing else than something you spend money to earn more money without work, because they do nothing else. Funny thing is, that they call it work.


----------



## VandyMan

capetownwatches said:


> I won't have some supercilious X'er attempt to denigrate that in any way, shape or form.



OK Boomer


----------



## catscratch (Apr 27, 2022)

Stax measurements are exceedingly difficult and I would be hesitant to trust any. The seal is paramount, and not only is a seal hard to get on a measurement rig, there is also no way of knowing how well that will translate into a seal on your ears. Having said that, they're still better than nothing.

Regarding storage, the main thing is to keep them away from direct sunlight. They have dust covers and dust should rarely be an issue unless the drivers have been tampered with in some way. And if dust does get in, it's generally a sign that they were. They're also pretty resistant to humidity and temperature. However, it never hurts to be extra safe.

Mine are either in their original box, in a closed off drawer in a bookcase, or on my desk, where whatever I use the most generally stays.

[Edit: for stuff like Nectar headphones that doesn't have dust covers, I'd probably take a few extra steps. Discharging them into your hand after use is not a bad idea as electrostats will attract dust particles like those old ionic air filters did. Also, storing them in a closed off drawer couldn't hurt. But I have a large German Shepherd so dust and dog hair everywhere is more or less the norm.]


----------



## oneguy

I store mine under a heavy microfiber bags  that I hade made specifically for my headphones. It’s long enough that the opening rests on the surface so it effectively seals them off from dust. Been good enough for the L700, 009s, RR1 and will be good enough for my x9000 when they arrive.


----------



## bigjako (Apr 28, 2022)

Tachikoma said:


> Interesting... so the Nectar Hive sounds a little bit like the old SR-5 and SR-X?


I have heard an SR-5 that was in suboptimal condition and have never heard the X, so I’m kinda hesitant to compare the Hive to either.  My memory of the SR-5 was that it did not have the shimmer and sparkle of the Lambdas but I think the Hive is objectively better.  I don’t feel confident in a comparison though.

And speaking of storage, I cut the handles off of these things and put them over dual-headphone stands with some desiccant bags underneath.  It fits over two Stax perfectly.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CMTMKJ1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## ardbeg1975

I know I’m horribly late to this whole estat game but I recently took the leap and the 009S fed by Chord TT2 DAC to a LTA MZ3 (to add some tube preamp flavor) into an (unmodded) 727A in direct mode is just awesome. Made my open back planars redundant for speed and clarity. A Mjolnir KGSSHV is soon to be in transit.


----------



## elton7033

tumpux said:


> It’s 2022 and people still refer to their toys as an investment.


----------



## urs (Apr 29, 2022)

What's wrong with referring our favorite “gadgets„ as a TOY ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy

I associate only positive thoughts with them    – _and NO, with one singular exception, *none *of my “TOYS” was ever an “Investment" with a positive FINANCIAL profit,_
_*But countless hours of pure musical pleasure and enjoyment… *_

Urs
_(Sorry, yes I made this “notorious investment” in an X-9000 without thinking twice)

For some "BOYS"  it may be different indeed.....
https://www.amazon.de/Toys-Boys-Patrice-Farameh/dp/9076886326_


----------



## CT007

I mean, _quality_ products are basically safe investments, right? Don't buy cheap crap that ends up in yard sales. Most gear worth buying retains most of its value, assuming it doesn't become outdated on the software side. If it becomes 'vintage' or a collector item, even better. But realistically, I expect a ~25% loss from anything I buy and re-sell later, which is simply the cost required to actually _hear_ and _test_ any given item. =p


----------



## urs

CT007,

Your argument of *„Quality vs El Cheapo gear“* is indeed convincing and I agree full heartedly !

From a 25 % “Hearing & Testing Fee”,  I can only dream , however: My “losses” are usually much higher.
OK, I usually keep such “Toys” _!!_    for a few months or even longer, hence it’s more than just a “temporary testing phase”

Regards

Urs


----------



## capetownwatches (Apr 29, 2022)

Perhaps I should clarify: I regard any amount spent on gear as an investment. Which technically it is.
I do not expect this amount to be recouped with profit at any stage.
Unless it's particularly rare or in demand, the best one can usually hope to achieve when offloading is a reasonable "loss", which technically selling for less than one paid, is.

But how does one put a value on the pleasure gained by using that gear whilst one owns it?
I am pretty sure none of us is into this hobby to make a financial gain!
Utility value is very tough to quantify.

In the sense that an investment in gear brings happiness to the user, an investment it surely is.
Just not of the monetary type.

The fact that the poster only equated "investment" with financial gain or loss is what I found remarkable.
This hobby should not be all about money.


----------



## capetownwatches

urs said:


> What's wrong with referring our favorite “gadgets„ as a TOY ? *Nothing at all!*
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy
> 
> I associate only positive thoughts with them    – _and NO, with one singular exception, *none *of my “TOYS” was ever an “Investment" with a positive FINANCIAL profit,_
> ...


----------



## CT007

capetownwatches said:


> I am pretty sure none of us is into this hobby to make a financial gain!


Yep. In this hobby, the _opposite_ is the reality. ;p You're not here if you're trying to _save/make_ money..!


----------



## bearFNF

Pick your poison (I choose 3.):
investment - noun
1. the action or process of investing money for profit or material result.
"a debate over private investment in road-building"
2. a thing that is worth buying because it may be profitable or useful in the future.
"a used car is rarely a good investment"
*3. an act of devoting time, effort, or energy to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result.
"the time spent in attending a one-day seminar is an investment in our professional futures"*
4. ARCHAIC - the surrounding of a place by a hostile force in order to besiege or blockade it.

Personally I think it's an investment in your mental health to have something that you enjoy. Whether that also includes getting you a monetary gain depends on your own personal choice.

Think about all the people that think their house is an investment for profit, then never sell it. It is still an investment if they got pleasure out of living there, right? Or actually it is still an investment if they didn't get pleasure, just at a loss instead of a gain...


----------



## dynavit

If you buy secondhand 2 years after new release you may have good luck and loose nothing. Good headphones don't loose more than 50% in the first 10 years, but they loose 40% quickly being used after release.


----------



## number1sixerfan

dynavit said:


> If you buy secondhand 2 years after new release you may have good luck and loose nothing. Good headphones don't loose more than 50% in the first 10 years, but they loose 40% quickly being used after release.



Agree.. if it weren't for this I wouldn't be in the hobby. I buy most of my gear used (only in most recent months this hasn't been true), or deeply discounted from friends (I offer the same when selling) and trusted dealers. And I _usually_ only buy gear that I know will have demand for years to come. 

Gear doesn't appreciate but it surely holds its value well if you take care of it.. while you get to enjoy it immensely while having it. If needed, I could liquidate most of my gear at a very small loss and have thousands of dollars on hand within a week or two.  There are certainly worst ways to spend money.


----------



## tumpux

Is it that hard to admit that spending ridiculous amount of resources on something nice is fun..


----------



## tjlindle

L700 Sigma came in a couple days ago! Blazing fast shipping from Hong Kong, very impressed  

I haven't had a chance to listen to them yet unfortunately, but tonight I'll finally get some quality time to put them through their paces.

I felt the L700 driver's imaging capabilities could exceed the bottleneck of the Lambda enclosure (that's not to say Lambdas have bad enclosures, just that it felt like the L700 could benefit from a larger stage in which to flex its technical chops). I hope my hunch is correct, because if so this will be quite a ride.

In the meantime I have been having a lot of fun with the NB Crew  




Three of my favorite cans ever, and in the middle the most resolving IEM I've ever heard too (that is a KSE1500/1200 modded with a Stax 5-pin).

SR-5 (not the Gold version unfortunately) is a very fun listen, not as exacting as the SR-X Mk3, a little warmer, a little bigger soundstage, still just as punchy and resolving.

SR-X Mk 3 I think has a really special place in the Stax canon, not just for its historical value but also because in its supra-aural form factor, it just _channels _music right into your soul, they are clear, tonally perfect, resolving and the soundstage is just pure magic, so direct and intimate. There is no attempt to make it an "earspeaker" in the sense of the Sigma or Lambda lines, it's a headphone that knows its a headphone and as a result the sonic presentation is elegant, simple, and direct. I am still kicking myself not buying the SR-X Mk 3 Pro DIY that spritzer was selling a couple months ago. As an aside I also don't really care for deeper pads, to me the tiny soundstage is a feature with these.

The NB Lambda is probably the most euphonic headphone I've ever heard. I still consider it probably the "least strong" Lambda in terms of technical performance but that midrange is just magical, everything you listen to on the NB Lambda is the sonic equivalent of grandma's home cooking. My favorite vocals from a headphone.

The KSE1500 takes 200v bias so it can be powered off of a full-blown NB Stax amp...holy s--t. All I can say is detail monster, it is like being buried alive in detail. Isolates just as well as Etymotics too so you can _really _hear every little thing with no interference from the outside world.

There is a Gamma on eBay that I'm eyeing but I'm thinking the price is not right on it. Shame as I'm really curious how it compares to the SR-X Mk3 in particular.

Normal bias sets are awesome. Stax bring back the socket please.


----------



## kevin gilmore (Apr 29, 2022)

The KSE1500 on a non-portable stax amp is indeed amazing. But it does really require a 200 volt bias and stax normal bias is more like 250v.
All stax amps with a normal bias output jack can be easily modified by changing 1 resistor.
There is a person in china selling kse1500 with a 5 pin stax plug. Don't know if they are real or fakes, but they sure sound nice. And the price is dirt cheap.
(which probably means they are fakes)


----------



## tjlindle (Apr 29, 2022)

kevin gilmore said:


> The KSE1500 on a non-portable stax amp is indeed amazing. But it does really require a 200 volt bias and stax normal bias is more like 250v.
> All stax amps with a normal bias output jack can be easily modified by changing 1 resistor.
> There is a person in china selling kse1500 with a 5 pin stax plug. Don't know if they are real or fakes, but they sure sound nice. And the price is dirt cheap.
> (which probably means they are fakes)
> ...


Oh that's good to know re: NB amps being closer to 250v - I've been using the KSE out of a Stax amp for a while now, do you think that's damaging it in any way over time?

I have a few NB amps/energizers, that sounds like it's worth modding one of them specifically for the KSE.

EDIT: I'm curious if they're fakes too. The KSE seems pretty advanced on the tech side of things given the small size, seems like it'd be a huge pain to counterfeit it vs. any number of other IEMs.


----------



## kevin gilmore

it was designed for 200v. and i see no reason to over bias them when it takes less than a minute to change 1 resistor.


----------



## tjlindle

kevin gilmore said:


> it was designed for 200v. and i see no reason to over bias them when it takes less than a minute to change 1 resistor.


Ok I'll look into that, could do it to either an SRD-7 or a SRM-1. 

I'm assuming that might affect sound quality a little with Stax NB sets since they're slightly under-biased at that point, but I have other amps I can use with them.


----------



## bigjako

Please, someone buy this so I don’t: https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...atic-tube-headphone-amp-for-stax-issue.24719/

It must be fixable. Who wants to go quarters and rotate it around North America?  I’d love to hear Birgir’s all tube amp. I already have more electrostatic tube amps than I need.


----------



## Tachikoma

tjlindle said:


> There is a Gamma on eBay that I'm eyeing but I'm thinking the price is not right on it. Shame as I'm really curious how it compares to the SR-X Mk3 in particular.
> 
> Normal bias sets are awesome. Stax bring back the socket please.


I hear it as somewhere between the SR-5 and SR-X. A bit nasal compared to either though.


----------



## Swann36

pataburd said:


> Ebony blocks and Alan Maher RFI filters.


Looking up Alan Maher is really interesting as i already use a grounding sheet to sleep on ...


----------



## Zoide

How does a CCS / ECC99 modded T1S compare to the 353X when it comes to driving the L700 (and potentially the more power-hungry Nectar Hive)?

Thanks


----------



## Sandro Sena

tjlindle said:


> L700 Sigma came in a couple days ago! Blazing fast shipping from Hong Kong, very impressed



Please, let us know your impressions, I am very interested in this model.

Thanks


----------



## SolarCetacean

Zoide said:


> How does a CCS / ECC99 modded T1S compare to the 353X when it comes to driving the L700 (and potentially the more power-hungry Nectar Hive)?
> 
> Thanks


Based on what Spritzer at Mjolnir Audio told me when I bought my CCS-modded SRM-006tA from him, that modded T1S should be significantly more powerful than the 353X. He said that his Octave II amps were better than the 353X, and the modded T1/006 Stax amps are a step above the Octave. Thus I went with the modded 006tA. And the T1S with the ECC99 mod should be more powerful still.


----------



## KDS315

SolarCetacean said:


> Based on what Spritzer at Mjolnir Audio told me when I bought my CCS-modded SRM-006tA from him, that modded T1S should be significantly more powerful than the 353X. He said that his Octave II amps were better than the 353X, and the modded T1/006 Stax amps are a step above the Octave. Thus I went with the modded 006tA. And the T1S with the ECC99 mod should be more powerful still.


006t and T1(S) basically share the same boards, so if both are modded to use ECC99 and CCS there should be not much difference. But the modification makes a big difference indeed!! I have such a modded Amp.


----------



## oneguy

tjlindle said:


> L700 Sigma came in a couple days ago! Blazing fast shipping from Hong Kong, very impressed
> 
> I haven't had a chance to listen to them yet unfortunately, but tonight I'll finally get some quality time to put them through their paces.
> 
> I felt the L700 driver's imaging capabilities could exceed the bottleneck of the Lambda enclosure (that's not to say Lambdas have bad enclosures, just that it felt like the L700 could benefit from a larger stage in which to flex its technical chops). I hope my hunch is correct, because if so this will be quite a


Nice! You don’t see many of these in the wild. I’m interested in hearing your impressions too.


----------



## SolarCetacean

KDS315 said:


> 006t and T1(S) basically share the same boards, so if both are modded to use ECC99 and CCS there should be not much difference. But the modification makes a big difference indeed!! I have such a modded Amp.


My 006t isn't ECC99-modded, it just has the CCS while still using 6CG7 tubes (electro-harmonix ones). That's why I presumed the T1S with ECC99 tubes would be more powerful. My understanding is that the ECC99's higher plate voltage alleviates some performance limitation caused by running the 6CG7 too close to its plate voltage.


----------



## KDS315

No, it is the higher anode current the ECC99 can handle and to which the CCS will then be set to. The voltage cannot be changed as the power supply stays the same.


----------



## hifixman

padam said:


> I guess I am way behind the curve now, as the term "natural sound" has been taken out of consideration for a long time, replaced by "objectively measurable technical ability".
> 
> And no, even "technically" I do not consider the X9000 a landslide above the 007. It is just a different presentation, that was described in those YT videos (that got instantly questioned...)
> Just because something is layered or separated differently or makes details stand out more, it does not necessarily mean that it is superior. Just a different way or representing a stage in a headphone, it will work with a certain type of music while it won't work in a different type of music.
> ...


X9000 has larger stage, the largest in current stax lineup


----------



## FredSD

Regarding headphone amps that can power Stax and other ESL's, Dieter Mallach (Mal Valve) makes some pretty compelling designs as well. He actually makes a full compliment of tube gear, a turntable and even magnetostatic speakers...including magnetostatic bass drivers. He also runs HiFi Deluxe across the street from the Munich show. He has very singular views about transformer design (essentially all of our OPT's are undersized for their task). So in his valve amps, (all push pull) the OPT's are designed to sit on the floor, near the loudspeakers. This way, they can be over 90 pounds per channel...after a listen, it is a convincing argument where push pull amps are concerned. They are also the best way to run the RAAL headphones that I've come across...electrostats too. Anyway, his headamp design has been otherworldly since 2013 or so when he came out with an amp that could power electrostats, dynamic cans and everything between. Way back when, it won the award, 'best headphone amp in the world' from Steve Guttenberg. Now there are three to choose from, and there's no drawback for their versatility that I can hear. And yes, you can add his big honking floor transformers and have a monster integrated, headfi/loudspeaker listening space. Anyway, I've run on...forgive me. Here's a shot of my Head Amp Five. it runs kt-170s (a vast improvement on all KT tubes (KT-66, KT-90, KT-100 etc etc) sonically-I could care less about the power...they just sound better-flesh and bone and blood) It runs the pro electrostatic output for pro-Stax, a traditional electrostatic output for other ESL's (adjustable voltage), balanced outputs for regular and planar magnetic cans, and a 1/4 inch jack for same...it can be run as a preamp, and with the additional OPTs on the floor, power just about any loudspeakers (and the RAAL headphones) This along with my single ended Trafomatic Head Amps, has my headfi bases covered. Anyway, a super-fun listen.


----------



## lostrockets

lostrockets said:


> im working on writing a review, will post in the next week or so


just posted this, if youre in the market for stax hope you find it helpful 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/es-labs-es-1a-electrostatic-headphones.25825/reviews

and thank you to @bigjako and @KDS315 for sharing your experiences with stax. theyve helped me find what i've been looking for.


----------



## bigjako

lostrockets said:


> just posted this, if youre in the market for stax hope you find it helpful
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/es-labs-es-1a-electrostatic-headphones.25825/reviews
> 
> and thank you to @bigjako and @KDS315 for sharing your experiences with stax. theyve helped me find what i've been looking for.


Great review, and I'm glad to play a part in you getting the ES-1a on your head.  They really are great, and take all that my Yggy and Carbon throw at it.  I'm still super curious to get my hands on a 007 Mk1 one day, but the ES-1a's make that less of a pressing need and, as you say, serve as a (near) end-game complement to my L300 LEs.  

I can't wait for the L700 Sigma review coming soon, too.


----------



## Zoide

oneguy said:


> I store mine under a heavy microfiber bags  that I hade made specifically for my headphones. It’s long enough that the opening rests on the surface so it effectively seals them off from dust. Been good enough for the L700, 009s, RR1 and will be good enough for my x9000 when they arrive.



I read about a guy who was using blender covers for his Stax. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Covermates-Blender-Collection-Warranty-Protection/dp/B007X56784

Has anyone tried one? And do you know of a place that sells them in Europe?



CT007 said:


> Can anyone say - 007 MK2 and L700 vs Edition XS or Arya Stealth? Are the Stax less bright/fatiguing? I would think so, with that _effortless _sound quality.



I currently have an L700 (blu-tack modded), but was recently bit by the upgradeitis bug and started to look into alternatives like the Nectar Hive X and the Arya Stealth.

Any more comparisons between those are welcome... 

Thanks


----------



## hifixman

Zoide said:


> I read about a guy who was using blender covers for his Stax. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Covermates-Blender-Collection-Warranty-Protection/dp/B007X56784
> 
> Has anyone tried one? And do you know of a place that sells them in Europe?
> 
> ...


Brilliant lol! But is it big enough?


----------



## oneguy

Zoide said:


> I read about a guy who was using blender covers for his Stax. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Covermates-Blender-Collection-Warranty-Protection/dp/B007X56784
> 
> Has anyone tried one? And do you know of a place that sells them in Europe?
> 
> ...


I’m not a fan of the quilted looked but that’s purely personal preference. If the dimensions fit then that’s definitely candidate.

I haven’t heard the Hive X but I would think it’s not an upgrade to the L700.


----------



## lostrockets

Zoide said:


> I read about a guy who was using blender covers for his Stax. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Covermates-Blender-Collection-Warranty-Protection/dp/B007X56784
> 
> Has anyone tried one? And do you know of a place that sells them in Europe?
> 
> ...



Arya stealth sounded to me the most close to stax out of all headphones i tried. I did use them on my elekit tube amp so the brightness people complain about may have been mitigated a bit. If i didnt have my stax i wouldve considered keeping aryas despite questionable durability of their drivers..


----------



## ufospls2 (May 2, 2022)

Thought this might be a good place to ask this question. Does anyone know the power output difference between the KGSSHV, and the KGSSHV Carbon (the Mjolnir Audio/Sprtizer Versions.) Is it substantially more with the Carbon? I can't find the specs ratings.


----------



## KDS315 (May 3, 2022)

You have the Blue Hawaii (BHSE) already, why are you even asking? Would you like to know the p2p values (peak-to-peak voltages?) or the bias current they are operating with? (Dr.) Kevin Gilmore would be your best address then...

From what I have on file he posted a while ago this (a partial quote of his original posting then):
((quote Dr Kevin Gilmore - with some slight edits for clarity))

*500 v power supplies require 15ma of output current at 20khz into 120pf
A T2 can do this. A megatron can do this

450 v power supplies require 14ma of output current.
a kgsshv carbon can easily do 18 to 20 ma
a kgsshv is limited to a max of about 9ma

400v power supplies require 12ma of output current
a Blue Hawaii (BH) will easily do this and more

350v power supplies requires 10.6ma of output current
Most stax amps (t1,717,727,007t...) are 350v power supplies and can only supply about 7ma

300v power supplies require 9ma of output current
some stax amps including the d50 are limited to about 6ma

175v power supplies D10 requires 5.25ma of output current
amplifier is limited to 6ma*

((unquote))

PS: the mentioned 120pF is the normal capacitive load of a STAX headphone which a suitable amp has to drive up to at least 20kHz frequency.


----------



## ufospls2

KDS315 said:


> You have the Blue Hawaii (BHSE) already, why are you even asking? Would you like to know the p2p values (peak-to-peak voltages?) or the bias current they are operating with? (Dr.) Kevin Gilmore would be your best address then...
> 
> From what I have on file he posted a while ago this (a partial quote of his original posting then):
> ((quote Dr Kevin Gilmore - with some slight edits for clarity))
> ...


Thanks for the info, very helpful.


----------



## martin778

https://www.trilogyaudio.com/spd-h1
Anyone familiar with this model?


----------



## kevin gilmore

*300v power supplies require 9ma of output current
some stax amps including the d50 are limited to about 0.6ma*

that should be 6ma


----------



## Zoide

Is the current output in mA the main metric for determining the ability of an amp to drive a demanding electrostatic earspeaker (e.g., Stax 007)?

Or do we also have to take into account the voltage and multiply it by the current to get power?

Thanks


----------



## KDS315

kevin gilmore said:


> *300v power supplies require 9ma of output current
> some stax amps including the d50 are limited to about 0.6ma*
> 
> that should be 6ma


Yep, I should have seen and corrected this. Done now! Thanks!!


----------



## KDS315 (May 3, 2022)

Zoide said:


> Is the current output in mA the main metric for determining the ability of an amp to drive a demanding electrostatic earspeaker (e.g., Stax 007)?
> 
> Or do we also have to take into account the voltage and multiply it by the current to get power?
> 
> Thanks


No, not this way. It is a bit more complicated than that, as it is about the precise reproduction of transients, which need rather high du/dt and di/dt values (these are measures of the speed of a voltage resp. current change values) in volts and amps per microsecond.

I’m sure Kevin Gilmore might explain that better than me. My Phd is in power electronics (kiloamps / kilovolts) only…😁


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

Question for seasoned experts: in what ways can an underpowered amp paired with power-hungry earspeakers affect listening experience?

Context for my question: I recently got a pair of x9000s and, after much trial and error and trading in purchases in order to upgrade, I made a plan: start with the x9000s as the strongest link in my chain, and build a setup from there.

Current setup: Node 2i, RME ADI-2 DAC, SRM-353x, x9000s

I think I need the Node, for now at least--I get different sound out of my PC when connecting via USB, all my music is streaming, I don't need a Roon for mobility etc., and I don't know enough about streamers to make a different decision. I know I need the RME--it solves so many potential problems that go beyond just being a good DAC. 

The 353x is an affordable placeholder while I try out various amps and make a more long-term decision. What I want to better understand is what happens to a pair of 'highest end' earspeakers when they're used with lesser-grade amps. I have no frame of reference to answer this question. I hear a lot of distortion at high volumes with the current setup, and not as much clarity or separation as I hoped for, but I have no idea whether this is a result of the 353x. I will personally test out several 'top' amps over the coming months, but it would help a lot to know what I should be listening for, besides 'more power.'


----------



## slazhx

Hi, Stax die-hard head-fier. 

I currently own Hifiman HE6 OG and Shure KSE1500 e-stat iem. What I love from HE6 is bass punch and slam. For KSE1500, it is always that high resolution and details. My music tastes are heavy metal with many instruments and notes going on like Dream Theater, and OST by Hans Zimmer such as Interstellar. Can you guys recommend any model of Stax fitting my type? 

My friend is lending Mjolnir KGSS Klassik for me, so now I'm on the hunt for Stax headphones fitting this amp and my taste. 

AFAIK, SR-007 would better fit than 009 as It has more attack and bass region, right? (Had tried 009 w/ Woo WES but didn't like it)

Which sub-model code should I try? It seems there are SR-007 MKI, SR-007 MKII, SR-007A, etc. I know nothing about the differences in sounding. Can you guys please enlighten me?

Sorry for my ignorance, I believe there might be many same questions on this thread, but now we are on 14xx pages ...

Thank you


----------



## BenF

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> Question for seasoned experts: in what ways can an underpowered amp paired with power-hungry earspeakers affect listening experience?
> 
> Context for my question: I recently got a pair of x9000s and, after much trial and error and trading in purchases in order to upgrade, I made a plan: start with the x9000s as the strongest link in my chain, and build a setup from there.
> 
> ...


Underpowered amps would result in a less dynamic sound (even if they can get your earspeakers loud enough), and the bass punch suffers most.
However, when it comes to "highest end" vs "lesser-grade" (which has nothing to do with power), the effects can be practically anything.


----------



## padam (May 4, 2022)

arayasg said:


> Which sub-model code should I try? It seems there are SR-007 MKI, SR-007 MKII, SR-007A, etc. I know nothing about the differences in sounding. Can you guys please enlighten me?
> 
> Sorry for my ignorance, I believe there might be many same questions on this thread, but now we are on 14xx pages ...
> 
> Thank you


SR-007A = SR-007 Mk2 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/post-16625118

The cable entry has an open port on the Mk2, after sealing it Blu Tack, the sound becomes closer to the Mk1.  But there are different revisions of each.
But many people still seem to be looking for the Mk1 version in the Classifieds section. So you can guess, which one is regarded as the most thought after version in general. (at least in stock form).
I only had several copies of the Mk1 so far, and they seemed to sound somewhat different, although I did not have two at the same time. And making it perfectly fit for your head is important (bending the assembly, making sure the elastic on the headpad is tight) so there are a handful of factors that will affect the sound just as much as the version you get.

So I wouldn't sweat too much about it and get a new (or nearly new) Mk2 (or A) that should be the Mk2.9 and it is regarded as very good (After port-modding).


----------



## hifixman

Any ideas of how to drive stax via speaker amplifiers?


----------



## BenF (May 4, 2022)

hifixman said:


> Any ideas of how to drive stax via speaker amplifiers?


You need an energizer, like the Pro-bias SRD-1 here: https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/ or Wee here: https://wooaudio.com/amplifiers/wee


----------



## KDS315

hifixman said:


> Any ideas of how to drive stax via speaker amplifiers?


Get a (used) SRD-7 PRO and be happy with it (if your amp is good enough that is...)


----------



## slazhx

padam said:


> SR-007A = SR-007 Mk2 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/post-16625118
> 
> The cable entry has an open port on the Mk2, after sealing it Blu Tack, the sound becomes closer to the Mk1.  But there are different revisions of each.
> But many people still seem to be looking for the Mk1 version in the Classifieds section. So you can guess, which one is regarded as the most thought after version in general. (at least in stock form).
> ...



Thank you for your advice.

Too bad, I have no skill about modding with Blu Tack. Accoding to my music taste, do you recommend me to get standard updated 007A/MKII or try getting MK I? Any S/N I should pay attention to?


----------



## martin778

Hasn't that bluetack mod been made obsolete years ago when Mk2.5 came out?


----------



## OkPsychology

hifixman said:


> Any ideas of how to drive stax via speaker amplifiers?


Hey buddy... I'm actually selling a woo wee in the classifieds right now. I had posted a question to the group here about the ballast resistor (spoiler alert: doesn't have one). Happy to chat with you if interested!
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/woo-wee.25101/


----------



## padam

arayasg said:


> Thank you for your advice.
> 
> Too bad, I have no skill about modding with Blu Tack. Accoding to my music taste, do you recommend me to get standard updated 007A/MKII or try getting MK I? Any S/N I should pay attention to?


I have no skill either, but it's really easy to do. The most fiddly part is putting back the earpads. Otherwise, get an Mk1.
But if the earpads are worn out (they can wear out quicker than Mk2 pads, or just more used in general), you have to go through almost the same procedure anyway.
Some people like it without mods, but the Mk1 already has tipped-up bass, so I can't imagine any more to be a good thing.


----------



## KDS315

I have both the 007 Mk1 and Mk2 and honestly the much higher cost of the Mk1 is not really worth it - except you're a "bass head" then it might


----------



## Zoide

KDS315 said:


> I have both the 007 Mk1 and Mk2 and honestly the much higher cost of the Mk1 is not really worth it - except you're a "bass head" then it might


Is something like an Antares or CCS/ECC99 modded T1 enough to drive the 007 well?

Thanks


----------



## tjlindle

Had a busy weekend but last night I finally got a chance to get a solid 6 hours in with the L700 Sigma. I'm glad I did, because when I first listened to it Friday night, it was such a different and interesting sound that I spent more time just vibing with my music than "listening to the gear," which in and of itself is a testament to how fun and engaging the headphones are.

Some thoughts on it, mostly focusing on what sounds different compared to the stock L700 naturally. One big, unfortunate caveat is that I have never heard a Sigma before this, so I can't compare to the NB, Pro, or 303/404 driver Sigma. I do have a 303 on hand right now and I like the x0x lineup quite a bit (possibly my second-favorite Lambda lineup behind the original "trio," NB-Pro-Sig), but the Sigma enclosure changes so much about the sound that it'd be largely fruitless to compare the 303 Lambda to the L700 Sigma.

I will put this in a bubble to expand since it is quite long and I don't want people to have to scroll for a few years to get to the bottom of the page if they have no interest in the L700 Sigma. Also, if anyone has any further questions about the L700 Sigma feel free to ask or DM and I'll be happy to respond.



Spoiler: L700 Sigma Discussion



-*Subbass. *Getting this one out of the way first since it is indeed the biggest weakness that the L700 Sigma has: there is effectively no subbass response below 60hz, at that point it rolls off _immensely_, beyond even what the L700 itself does without the port mod. +3db bass shelf at 60hz, +7, +10, etc., it does not matter, there is nothing there. Based on what I've read, this is due to the Sigma enclosure itself and therefore is just an inherent physical design limitation. Now keep in mind, this is by no means a dealbreaker: the L700 Sigma actually has a LOT of mid-to-low-end body (see below), it just manifests in a bass/midbass hump. Below that, it is a graveyard and thus this is very definitively _not_ an all-rounder pair of headphones, they flat-out cannot do anything that relies on sub response - rap, EDM, trip-hop, etc.

That being said - come on, nobody looks at a Sigma with its ridiculous cups and thinks "that looks like a real all-rounder headphone" lol. It very much has a specific use case, and we'll get into that later because needless to say, it is by far its biggest strength.

-*Bass/Midbass Hump. *I was told that this hump was a result of the Sigma design, and when I first put them on my head I really was taken aback by how large it is. Considering that other "soundstage famous" headphones like the K1000 are incredibly bass-shy (well, most of the K1000 are anyway), it is a bizarre whiplash to hear a correspondingly large stage with a huge midbass hump making everything sound quite thick and anchored. It is, for sure, more midbass than the stock L700 has, and it is something that you either would get used to or have to EQ. 

Another peculiarity is how, despite feeling like it is on the cusp of boominess, this hump is actually quite well-textured (likely due to the inherent strengths of the L700 drivers, which always deliver very high-quality bass), and therefore doesn't end up infesting the sound with flabby, unrefined low-end, but rather just sounds like a lot of solid, quality bass was turned up just a little too high in the mix. It's not a dealbreaker by any means, and in fact can sound quite good with the right material; that being said, I did EQ that whole range down a couple db and was happier with the sound afterwards.

And that's all I've got for caveats and weaknesses, now let's get into the real star of the show.

-*Soundstage and Imaging. *Here's where the magic is. The L700 Sigma (and probably, by extension, the other Sigma variants as well) has my favorite soundstage/headstage of any headphone. I have heard headphones with more resolution and technical proficiency across the board (for starters, the Stax Omega lineup), but I have never heard a unit that _engrosses _me in its created space quite like the L700 Sigma does. 

This presentation is quite distinct from the two Omegas I have heard (007A and 009); while both of those have quite large soundstages and, of course, very precise imaging and layering, they sound more "in the thick of it" when it comes to how they present the music, whereas it is the _directionality _of the Sigma combined with its incredible size that makes it sound so unique. It creates a vast space and fills it with the music, but within that space you are not really "inside" the music per se, but rather are being "shown" the music from a source somewhere in front of you, but in such an enveloping, engrossing way that you _feel _you are inside it. It is, truly, a 2-channel setup that you strap to your head, and as a result it has just such an incredible mix of sounding like it _should _be more distant, while in execution sounding quite intimate and personal, but within a HUGE perceived space. So bizarre, but also so utterly captivating.

A lot of headphones with large stages can make music sound correspondingly large, but the Sigma is quite remarkable in how _small _it can make things sound as well, while still retaining the perception of a large stage. In moments where, for instance, a piano plays solo and softly, the stage doesn't become smaller to accommodate the piano; it sounds just as big, and the piano sounds absolutely diminutive, like it is surrounded by a huge expanse of darkness and silence. I think it is, fundamentally, the physical design of the Sigma that allows it to accomplish this effect, and it's really something I have not heard anywhere else. One of my favorite songs, "Starless" by King Crimson, was breathtaking with this sonic presentation; I have never heard the crescendo at the end sound so big (on headphones anyway), but I have also never heard Fripp's lonely, wistful guitar at the beginning sound so small. That song and "Roundabout" by Yes were really the first two tracks that made me go "Whoa...this thing is f--kin' awesome!"

I am assuming many of the things I mention above apply to all Sigmas due to sharing the same enclosure, but the layering and imaging of instruments and sounds that occurs within this massive, unique soundstage is something that _may _be attributable more to the L700 driver itself. I like the L700 a lot and consider it one of the best Lambda units; it doesn't have my favorite tonality or timbre, but on a technical level it is the most resolving, refined, and engaging. 

Here, the best way I can describe the improvement over the L700 is that if the L700 drivers are a 2-channel system, adding the Sigma enclosure feels like moving the drivers from an untreated bedroom into a treated listening room. With the Sigma enclosure there is just so much more perceived, high-quality space to work with, and the key improvement is in the _layering. _There simply was not enough space before to really layer sounds without congestion, but here there are layers upon layers, sounds come up at you from out of nowhere in every direction while somehow retaining a controlled center stage in front of you, and distant sounds are truly _distant _even while close-mic'd sounds might as well be a foot from your ears. And all of this happens at the same time, while the "root" of the sound stays firmly in front of you. The only similar setup I've heard in audio are 5.1 room setups, it is just a remarkable presentation to come from a pair of headphones. I cannot even imagine what a Sigma enclosure that could hold an Omega driver would sound like, it would probably be my favorite headphone of all time.

There is no point really comparing the soundstage and imaging to most headphones known for these qualities, it is a decisive victory for the L700 Sigma. I prefer its technical proficiencies in these areas over, for instance, the HD 800 and the K1000. I think I even prefer the aural presentation here over the Omega line, though those units are certainly more refined overall, layer better within the allotted space, and generally do not have the same weaknesses elsewhere that the L700 Sigma has. Now I am quite curious to hear the RAAL SR1a and see how that compares.

-*Price. *This is already quite a document, and I've touched on really the main three things that I think are notable about the L700 Sigma (i.e. lack of subbass, midbass hump, incredibly unique soundstage/imaging), so now I'll move into price which is usually a factor as well.

The ES Labs L700 Sigma is not cheap, depending on exchange rate and shipping selection it can range from $1600-1800 bought new from the company. That is more than a used 007 (any version), a little chunk less than a used 009, a big chunk less than a used 009S and a _whole lot _less than a X9000 or SR-Omega. So, while it is on the lower end of the Omega price range, it is still in that area and therefore on price it does have to directly compete with the Omegas. The only real saving grace on this front is that, since it is fundamentally still using the L700 drivers, it is overall quite efficient and does not have the same (expensive) amping requirements.

What I can say is this: If you have never heard a Sigma, the 404 Sigma from ES Labs is less than half the price of this unit and might be a more financially responsible way of seeing if you connect with its sound. That driver swap is also a lot easier to do, and they will cut the price even more and just send you their Sigma enclosure if you have 303/404 on hand and want to mod it yourself. While I don't think it will image and layer in quite the same way, the 303/404 are excellent Lambdas (not all of them are excellent, but these two really are), and the Sigma enclosure will still provide the same magical soundstage.

If you are a "single headphone" type of person and want an all-rounder, don't bother with any of the Sigma variants, they are just flat-out not all-rounders. These units exist to give you the "Sigma sound," nothing else sounds like them and they don't sound like anything else either.

If you have heard the Sigma and like it, connect with what it's doing, etc, then the L700 Sigma is worth buying. I am confident that, because so much of the Sigma's worth derives from its unique aural presentation, the L700's inherent technical proficiencies in filling that space up make it the definitive version of the Sigma, and therefore if you really want "the best Sigma" then it is worth the premium over the 404/Pro/NB. For my ears there is not a better stage and presentation than this in the headphones I've heard, it is everything I'd want out of headphone soundstage/imaging and more.

The L700 was already _arguably_ the best non-Omega Stax unit; in a Sigma enclosure it is a no-brainer to me that it is the best non-Omega Stax unit. As a Sigma it is the only non-Omega that I would say can comfortably inhabit the same tier as at least the 007 and 009 (I have not heard the X9000 or the SR-Omega); yes there are some major weaknesses it has compared to those units, and overall those units are more refined, but on a fundamental level they do not present sound the same way the L700 Sigma does, and that presentation is the _key _to its value. I love the Lambdas a lot but, at the end of the day, I think there is not much per se that the Lambdas can do that the Omegas cannot. That is not the case here; the Omegas cannot do the main thing that the L700 Sigma does. To be fair, it also can't do a LOT of things the Omegas do either - but the point is that, as likely the definitive form of the Sigma, I think that this unit can stand alongside the Omegas as a sort of "weird uncle at the family reunion" companion, and therefore its price at the low end of the Omega range is acceptable.

---

That is it for now, especially since this writeup is already quite long. What is the L700 Sigma to me? Well, I love it and yea, despite its weaknesses particularly in bass response, I think I will try to make it one of my daily drivers. I am just too addicted to its sound, and in some ways it reminds me of the NB Lambda: I give up a few things, concede they are legitimate weaknesses with the unit, because it has one core thing that just makes me love listening to music on them.

Now you may have noticed the "try" in "try to make it one of my daily drivers" - that is because I've already gotten chewed out by my girlfriend for making too much noise with them, they bleed sound like nothing else. Like holy s--t, they are borderline louder outside than inside. So, we'll see how it goes...living arrangements unfortunately factor a lot into what headphones we can use.

And finally, a tribute to an avatar pic I have seen many times while researching the Sigma line, and one that you all are probably familiar with too if you've done the same  :


----------



## KDS315

Zoide said:


> Is something like an Antares or CCS/ECC99 modded T1 enough to drive the 007 well?
> 
> Thanks


But work well for my 007 MK1+2 (I have both)


----------



## tjlindle

arayasg said:


> Hi, Stax die-hard head-fier.
> 
> I currently own Hifiman HE6 OG and Shure KSE1500 e-stat iem. What I love from HE6 is bass punch and slam. For KSE1500, it is always that high resolution and details. My music tastes are heavy metal with many instruments and notes going on like Dream Theater, and OST by Hans Zimmer such as Interstellar. Can you guys recommend any model of Stax fitting my type?


If you want punchy heavy metal with great, aggressive guitar tone and a lot of low-end/subbass for stuff like Hans Zimmer OSTs, a pretty cheap and excellent option is a Lambda 404, they have huge subbass response (some of the most of any Stax even the more expensive units) and they have a lot of energy in that upper-mid range which is really important for getting crunchy metal guitar. There is actually one on sale in the Classifieds here right now.


----------



## mulveling

KDS315 said:


> But work well for my 007 MK1+2 (I have both)


Awesome review! Now I want one of course. I love the L700, both Mk I and II. You mentioned efficiency is still high like the L700. Are you able to notice any loss in efficiency versus a stock L700 due to the larger chamber and driver placement?


----------



## Zoide

mulveling said:


> Awesome review! Now I want one of course. I love the L700, both Mk I and II. You mentioned efficiency is still high like the L700. Are you able to notice any loss in efficiency versus a stock L700 due to the larger chamber and driver placement?


Hey mulveling! Your name sounded familiar from waaaay back in the day (I joined HF just one year after you did, in 2004).
So I clicked on your profile and saw your posts in the ES-R10 thread...

Lately I've been obsessed reading about the Nectar Hive X, Arya Stealth, and Stax SR-007 as possible upgrades to my (blu-tack modded) L700, but now you've got me thinking about the R10 replicas! 

Any thoughts on how they all stack up?
(the price for a new ES-R10 is way out of my budget though... )

Thanks


----------



## oneguy

@tjlindle Thank you for the excellent review. Now I’m even more intrigued to hear these and help support another small electrostatic headphone maker with a purchase.


----------



## bigjako

Thanks @tjlindle, great read.  I have the 404 version and my experience lines up with yours, subject to the differences between the 404 and the L700.  I periodically consider selling mine, because they just don’t get the head time of my others (because of the non-all roundedness you point out), but in the end they provide such a unique experience that while the Omegas may be objectively better, the Sigmas are one of a kind and deserve a spot at the Stax family table.  I love mine with acoustic rock and, particularly, live jazz.  

I do find I need to turn up the volume relative to all the other Lambdas but that’s just the nature of the housing and driver placement.   I have toyed with the idea of lining them with some other material, to lessen the dampening to try to reclaim some of the sub bass or slam, but then I worry I’ll just screw them up and I leave well enough alone.  I also put a little glue where the driver housing connects to the gimbal to give them a little extra purchase.  Benson told me that the non-Sigma headbands don’t play perfectly well with the increased housing size, so watch for them coming disconnected while you’re listening.


----------



## hewlett168

martin778 said:


> Hasn't that bluetack mod been made obsolete years ago when Mk2.5 came out?


It certainly has not with the current model, the Mk2.9. I received one two weeks ago and implemented the Blu-Tack mod today (third time doing it). 

Wow! What a difference, it is quite unbelievable, turning a somewhat limp and dull sound into hard-hitting and fully engaging sound.


----------



## mulveling

Zoide said:


> Hey mulveling! Your name sounded familiar from waaaay back in the day (I joined HF just one year after you did, in 2004).
> So I clicked on your profile and saw your posts in the ES-R10 thread...
> 
> Lately I've been obsessed reading about the Nectar Hive X, Arya Stealth, and Stax SR-007 as possible upgrades to my (blu-tack modded) L700, but now you've got me thinking about the R10 replicas!
> ...


Good to see you still around! Can't believe it's been so long since we started posting on head-fi. 
I haven't heard all the new stuff. There's just so much these days. I still have a 007 Mk I and 009. It's so hard to amp them to potential. Only on a DIY T2 do I not find them lacking in any way. On a KGSShv they're both quite competent & enjoyable, but not "quite there" for me. The 007 Mk I is a bit dark and sleepy. The 009 has its slightly cold tone - and I was so enthralled with them at first (circa 2014). Now the 007 and 009 only sound "perfect" (each their own version of perfect) to me on T2 - it really does some magic there to fix the 009's tone while advancing all other attributes too. On BHSE (going on memory here) both 007 and 009 are certainly better than KGSShv, but honestly it's still much closer to the KGSShv level than T2 (that goes for most amps, actually). The L700 (both MK I and Mk II) is so much easier to max out, and so engaging when you do so. Like I said the L700 / hev90 pairing is blowing my mind. It's such an addictive sound, short of only a 007 / 009 + T2. I have some sort of part issue with my T2, or else I've be able to listen to that more, btw. 

The ES-R10 is also wonderful in its own way, and much easier to drive to great heights than any Stax. It won't match a well-driven L700, 007, or 009 in detail. But has excellent detail for a dynamic driver. Its layering of information in the soundstage is really special, courtesy of the zelkova chambers. Nothing else quite like it (other than OG R10, of course). Doesn't sound like other closed headphones (in a good way). It's got a warm, sweet tone. No listening fatigue. And it's like a hard rocker's take on the original R10. More bass than the bass-heavy OG R10. Still not near basshead territory, and not as large a soundstage nor as technical as the OG. But quite honestly I sold the OG R10 because it couldn't rock. These can, and then some.


----------



## KDS315

mulveling said:


> Awesome review! Now I want one of course. I love the L700, both Mk I and II. You mentioned efficiency is still high like the L700. Are you able to notice any loss in efficiency versus a stock L700 due to the larger chamber and driver placement?


No it is not as efficient as the L700, the 007 needs about 6dB more in my experience


----------



## Zoide

mulveling said:


> Good to see you still around! Can't believe it's been so long since we started posting on head-fi.
> I haven't heard all the new stuff. There's just so much these days. I still have a 007 Mk I and 009. It's so hard to amp them to potential. Only on a DIY T2 do I not find them lacking in any way. On a KGSShv they're both quite competent & enjoyable, but not "quite there" for me. The 007 Mk I is a bit dark and sleepy. The 009 has its slightly cold tone - and I was so enthralled with them at first (circa 2014). Now the 007 and 009 only sound "perfect" (each their own version of perfect) to me on T2 - it really does some magic there to fix the 009's tone while advancing all other attributes too. On BHSE (going on memory here) both 007 and 009 are certainly better than KGSShv, but honestly it's still much closer to the KGSShv level than T2 (that goes for most amps, actually). The L700 (both MK I and Mk II) is so much easier to max out, and so engaging when you do so. Like I said the L700 / hev90 pairing is blowing my mind. It's such an addictive sound, short of only a 007 / 009 + T2. I have some sort of part issue with my T2, or else I've be able to listen to that more, btw.
> 
> The ES-R10 is also wonderful in its own way, and much easier to drive to great heights than any Stax. It won't match a well-driven L700, 007, or 009 in detail. But has excellent detail for a dynamic driver. Its layering of information in the soundstage is really special, courtesy of the zelkova chambers. Nothing else quite like it (other than OG R10, of course). Doesn't sound like other closed headphones (in a good way). It's got a warm, sweet tone. No listening fatigue. And it's like a hard rocker's take on the original R10. More bass than the bass-heavy OG R10. Still not near basshead territory, and not as large a soundstage nor as technical as the OG. But quite honestly I sold the OG R10 because it couldn't rock. These can, and then some.


Oh my... I was tempted by a set of 007A / 007 mk2 in like-new condition for ~1300 euros, but not if it means having to spend several thousand on a "Mafia" amp too make them sound good! 😲

Your ES-R10 description is _so_ tempting, but I'd have to sell my lovely L700 to afford it.
Or maybe I could try a Nectar Hive X for less than half the money and enjoy it just as much... 🤔

I haven't seen that many mentions/comparisons of the Arya Stealth here (and its thread is not even part of the "High-end Audio Forum" here, so I'm guessing it's not really in the same league.


----------



## mulveling (May 5, 2022)

Zoide said:


> Oh my... I was tempted by a set of 007A / 007 mk2 in like-new condition for ~1300 euros, but not if it means having to spend several thousand on a "Mafia" amp too make them sound good! 😲
> 
> Your ES-R10 description is _so_ tempting, but I'd have to sell my lovely L700 to afford it.
> Or maybe I could try a Nectar Hive X for less than half the money and enjoy it just as much... 🤔
> ...


Quite honestly you might enjoy the different presentation and perspective of 007 for a change of pace, even out of a less than ultra-fi amp. They're extremely enjoyable from my KGSShv, though right now my preferences lean more towards a well driven (w/ tubes preferably) L700 or the easily driven ES-R10. If you're amp isn't very powerful AND you enjoy higher volumes you may run into more trouble with 007 - my MK I's do seem as much as ~ 6dB less efficient than the L700, as the other poster mentioned.

I'd hold on to your L700 Mk I for sure. Don't sell them for a 007 or ES-R10. But explore those when you can


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

I have a question about the lifespan of a BHSE in comparison with other ES amps.

How long can one expect a BHSE to last? How long will an ES headphone amp last, period? Something I have not factored into my setup budget is repair costs...I'm not so worried about the first few years, but I am worried about Decade #2.


----------



## nepherte (May 6, 2022)

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> I have a question about the lifespan of a BHSE in comparison with other ES amps.


Mine's been chugging along for 6 years now. Still going strong. Tubes aren't pushed hard at all, so they should generally last for a long time. I'd say worst that can happen is a tripped fuse, which can easily be replaced. That's not to say it can't die on you, but I haven't seen many reports of it.


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

nepherte said:


> Mine's been chugging along for 6 years now. Still going strong. Tubes aren't pushed hard at all, so they should generally last for a long time. I'd say worst that can happen is a tripped fuse, which can easily be replaced. That's not to say it can't die on you, but I haven't seen many reports of it.


I have an opportunity to get a 2012-model BHSE is why I ask. I'm a bit leery of buying a ten-year-old amp.


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## nepherte (May 6, 2022)

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> I have an opportunity to get a 2012-model BHSE is why I ask. I'm a bit leery of buying a ten-year-old amp.


I wouldn't be overly concerned about that. If it's a trustworthy seller, the unit is in good working condition and the price is right, then go for it. 

Disclaimer: I plan on letting mine go as well in the near future as I have a diy T2 from Kerry commissioned. Take my opinion for what it is


----------



## bigjako

Your best bet in this hobby (or at least my best bet) was finding someone who could service amps.  There’s no way in hell I trust myself beyond some simple mods. In LA, I found Mike Check audio and have taken all my amps to Mike, and he’s solved my problems for $200 or less every time.  

I still have an 006t from 1992 with the original tubes in it.  Mike applied Dominik’s CCS mod for me.  He fixed up my Electra when I got it, good as new.  If you find someone who could service gear, you’ll be able to keep decades old amps in shape.   The innards are all pretty low tech, this isn’t like finding someone to service your circuit boards in a laptop.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> I have an opportunity to get a 2012-model BHSE is why I ask. I'm a bit leery of buying a ten-year-old amp.



Without any real data, it's pretty much impossible to speak toward long term longevity. And the reality is that things happen and the likelihood increases with age. Given the age, I probably would only pull the trigger if it was an extremely attractive price. I certainly wouldn't pay anywhere near the regular going rate. 

In your case I would probably look at alternatives or save up to buy new.


----------



## eskamobob1 (May 6, 2022)

Hey guys. Trying to figure out what an old stax model is called. It's the one with drivers basicaly perpendicular to your ears and a massive box. I think its 80s but I'm not positive. Anyone know the model I'm talking about?

Edit: found it. SR-Sigma


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

number1sixerfan said:


> Without any real data, it's pretty much impossible to speak toward long term longevity. And the reality is that things happen and the likelihood increases with age. Given the age, I probably would only pull the trigger if it was an extremely attractive price. I certainly wouldn't pay anywhere near the regular going rate.
> 
> In your case I would probably look at alternatives or save up to buy new.


Many thanks, I PM'd you about this topic and on the advice of others.


----------



## tjlindle

bigjako said:


> Thanks @tjlindle, great read.  I have the 404 version and my experience lines up with yours, subject to the differences between the 404 and the L700.  I periodically consider selling mine, because they just don’t get the head time of my others (because of the non-all roundedness you point out), but in the end they provide such a unique experience that while the Omegas may be objectively better, the Sigmas are one of a kind and deserve a spot at the Stax family table.  I love mine with acoustic rock and, particularly, live jazz.
> 
> I do find I need to turn up the volume relative to all the other Lambdas but that’s just the nature of the housing and driver placement.   I have toyed with the idea of lining them with some other material, to lessen the dampening to try to reclaim some of the sub bass or slam, but then I worry I’ll just screw them up and I leave well enough alone.  I also put a little glue where the driver housing connects to the gimbal to give them a little extra purchase.  Benson told me that the non-Sigma headbands don’t play perfectly well with the increased housing size, so watch for them coming disconnected while you’re listening.


I've been reading up more on the Sigma and the importance of the damping material, I'm also considering fudging with it a bit to see if I can get less rolloff in the sub bass.

Another member told me the Sigma Pro extends quite well on the low-end so, it's possible that either different damping material/amount, or the L700 driver itself is the culprit (after all the L700 is not a bass cannon by any means, especially compared to a lot of its Lambda predecessors).

I am running them from a 353X, but I'm considering an energizer to hook them up to some pretty large vintage stereo amps I have around. Just to get them really juiced up and see what happens. I'm not entirely sure how to determine what constitutes a "good" amp to tap into regardless, am I shooting for 100wpc minimum? 150? Class A only?

Curious what would happen if you tapped some estats into a professional grade power amp (>1000wpc) would they explode? Would the SRD-7 collapse on itself? Just wondering where the upper limit is with these.

Thanks for the tip re: the housing/headband, I've been very careful with it so far fearing that that exact thing would happen


----------



## KDS315 (May 8, 2022)

Nothing woud happen, as their impedance is that high, that those power amps would hardly provide enough voltage to make them even move - despite the lack of bias voltage which is essential to their function.  :LAUGH:


----------



## zomkung

I have a SR007 MK1 (broken cable) and a brand new SR-007 MK-II

How should I put a mod on?

Blu-tac on MK-II and swap the spring with MK1 and MK-II?


Note: MK1 is very old but still usable, only the cable is broken.


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## KDS315

Get a new cable for your MK1!!


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## zomkung

KDS315 said:


> Get a new cable for your MK1!!



I cannot find any spare part, that's why I bought MK-2


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## KDS315

zomkung said:


> I cannot find any spare part, that's why I bought MK-2


I have a friend who has such spare parts as he repairs STAX headphones, but here in Germany


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## eskamobob1

Has anyone here compared higher end transformers vs iESL? Im going to be picking up a set of X9000 and wasn't sure if there were any experts out there that may be able to help point me at better transformers than iESL to use with a few TOTL HP amps I have. I know that options such as SAC Thailand and LST transformer but I have never seen any comparisons of various transformers. TBH since I already have some nice conventional amps I am hoping I can avoid needing to step into a TOTL energizer


----------



## BassicScience (May 10, 2022)

eskamobob1 said:


> Has anyone here compared higher end transformers vs iESL? Im going to be picking up a set of X9000 and wasn't sure if there were any experts out there that may be able to help point me at better transformers than iESL to use with a few TOTL HP amps I have. I know that options such as SAC Thailand and LST transformer but I have never seen any comparisons of various transformers. TBH since I already have some nice conventional amps I am hoping I can avoid needing to step into a TOTL energizer


I haven't done any sort of survey of transformers for estats, but I'd have trouble believing that there is much out there materially better for the application than those developed for the iESL. The proprietary technology behind the iESL's transformers is explained in fair depth somewhere in the first few pages of the iESL thread. That said, I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone who's done comparisons with competing products.

iESL Transformer Tech


----------



## eskamobob1

BassicScience said:


> I haven't done any sort of survey of transformers for estats, but I'd have trouble believing that there is much out there materially better for the application than those developed for the iESL. The proprietary technology behind the iESL's transformers is explained in fair depth somewhere in the first few pages of the iESL thread. That said, I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone who's done comparisons with competing products.


Basicaly where I'm at. I've got some pretty high confidence in iesl when it comes yo transformer boxes but I figured it probably didn't hurt to ask


----------



## BTD1

eskamobob1 said:


> Basicaly where I'm at. I've got some pretty high confidence in iesl when it comes yo transformer boxes but I figured it probably didn't hurt to ask


I have an iESL and a Carbon CC.  The iESL performs very well with the x9000s.   Nothing is lacking.  Obviously the Carbon is more powerful but I don’t know if I can really  hear what the difference is.  I think it’s all about enough power from the amp driving the iESL.  The iESL has turned out to be one of the best values among all my equipment.


----------



## zomkung

Report
Blu-tac mod with spring mod will make MK.2.9 very close to MK1 (95%, 5% not sure (just in case))

I had an MK1 for almost a year, listening to it almost every day.

Confirming this.


----------



## Chefguru

zomkung said:


> Report
> Blu-tac mod with spring mod will make MK.2.9 very close to MK1 (95%, 5% not sure (just in case))
> 
> I had an MK1 for almost a year, listening to it almost every day.
> ...


Where can we find the spring mod information ?
Thanks


----------



## zomkung (May 11, 2022)

Chefguru said:


> Where can we find the spring mod information ?
> Thanks



I replace the spring of mk2 with mk1





anyway, here is the link
https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/3722-stax-sr-007mk2sr-007a-port-mod/page/2/#comments

https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/3722-stax-sr-007mk2sr-007a-port-mod/


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/to-tweak-or-not-to-tweak-the-stax-007a-that-is-the-question.381975/


----------



## slazhx

Thank you for sharing this. May I know where we can find the spring of MK1 without need to buy the whole MK1 headphones?


----------



## droido256

Listening to the L-300 vs the L-700 via same energizer, over all is complicated. Going strictly on sound, setting aside build, comfort, cabling, etc. 
Comparing the L-300 to the L-700 through the same amp, and same songs. 



The L-300 is more aggressive,  with a hot treble, not sharper, it’s  harder hitting, definitely more energetic of the two, a fun phone. Bass has more slam, esp in the mid bass, and mid low bass. While still wider than the other headphones, it's sound space projection is more intimate. Finer flaws and artifacts tend to have more fade. This model seems best for days when you’re want more engagement. 



The L-700 is more analytical, more precise but not causing strain, not entirely flat like a true reference phone(aka boring), lends more of a ethereal feel. Goes sharper in the treble, higher, and lends to more lower frequencies without emphasis on particular frequencies. The sound is largely uncolored. They present everything in a track loud and clear. Widest, and tallest in sound space projection. Some sounds being pushed into other rooms of the house or placed outside. With going both higher and lower in over all bands, they are more relaxed, without any veil. All flaws are presented as they are in the track. 



Is one better than the other? No.  I cannot honestly say such a thing. Is the L-700 worth $1200 more? Honestly yes, it’s presentation of sound waves is breathtaking. However it’s presentation is different. The L-700 is a Bentley(pre-VW) powerful, smooth, elegant. 

The L-300 is a Audi R8, aggressive, agile, sharp, with a equal power, in its own way.


----------



## bigjako

I had the chance to listen to an SR-007 mk1 for a couple days and can add to my past comments on the ES-1a being like the 008 (ie, in between the 007 and the 009).  Unfortunately, the pair I bought had some intermittent cut outs in the left side so I shipped them back (hopefully for repair and not refund).  

But I now must revise my whole worldview of Stax.  I had previously heard the Mk2's and used that to compare to the ES-1a.  The Mk1s are really something else - probably my favorite headphone I've ever heard, so it really pained me to ship them back. But the intermittency issue really interrupted my ability to enjoy them. 

- They worked wonderfully with my all-tube Electra.  Whereas the ES-1a didn't work well with tubes, and synergies quite well with my Carbon, the Mk1s worked nicely with the Carbons, as expected, but really opened up and became holographic on the Electra.
- I have a dynamic setup as a counterpoint to my estat setup, and I get good performance there from an Aeolus on a Ampsandsound Kenzie Encore. I have to say that the 007 mk1 almost negates the need for a counterpoint.  It sounds to me like an electrostatic ZMF.  Great bass (more mid-bass than sub-bass, though) and supremely liquid mids.  The treble is less sparkly than other Stax (and less so than the ES-1a).  But the tone and timbre is just beautiful and is 'magical' in the same way that the Lambda NBs are.  Like just stop dead in your tracks wonderful.  
- So to update my perspective on the ES-1a, it is still what I'd call an 008, but it has much more of a Stax / Lambda / 009 timbre than the 007.  It's more Stax-like than the 007, and (purely based on reading, not actual earxperience) the Mk1 sounds a lot like how I've heard people describe the HE90.  The ES-1a has much more sub-bass, as I said like the LCD-2s (almost) but the 007 mk1 has that ZMF sound sig (strong mid-bass and lower-mids, less emphasis and sparkle in the highs).  I think the ES-1a is more mid-centric, though, particularly for female vocals.  On the 007s, as sweet as the mids are, they're laid back compared to the ES-1a.

But anyways, wow - the 007 mk1s are really, truly special and I hope to have one again soon.


----------



## BTD1

I would like to take advantage of tone controls available on my dynamic headphone amp/preamp while using a Carbon estat amp.  The connection would be from DAC into headphone amp/preamp, then out from line XLR out in headphone amp/preamp and into Carbon inputs.  The volume would be active on the amp/preamp and on the Carbon.  Is this a problem?  Is there a risk to any equipment doing it this way?  Would I turn am/preamp volume all the way up or moderate both as needed?


----------



## ardbeg1975

BTD1 said:


> I would like to take advantage of tone controls available on my dynamic headphone amp/preamp while using a Carbon estat amp.  The connection would be from DAC into headphone amp/preamp, then out from line XLR out in headphone amp/preamp and into Carbon inputs.  The volume would be active on the amp/preamp and on the Carbon.  Is this a problem?  Is there a risk to any equipment doing it this way?  Would I turn am/preamp volume all the way up or moderate both as needed?


I asked my KGSSHV non-Carbon builder a similar question a while back and he said no issues in chaining preamp but I wouldn’t recommend maxing volume on either device.


----------



## BassicScience

BTD1 said:


> I would like to take advantage of tone controls available on my dynamic headphone amp/preamp while using a Carbon estat amp.  The connection would be from DAC into headphone amp/preamp, then out from line XLR out in headphone amp/preamp and into Carbon inputs.  The volume would be active on the amp/preamp and on the Carbon.  Is this a problem?  Is there a risk to any equipment doing it this way?  Would I turn am/preamp volume all the way up or moderate both as needed?


Multiple volume controls is not optimal, but not a "problem" _per se_. No risk to any of your equipment. I'd probably try to determine which volume control you prefer ergonomically, and set the other one to a fixed level that gives you a good usable range on the former. If you have digital EQ available, you might also want to try that in lieu of adding more electronics to the chain.


----------



## BTD1

ardbeg1975 said:


> I asked my KGSSHV non-Carbon builder a similar question a while back and he said no issues in chaining preamp but I wouldn’t recommend maxing volume on either device.


If there is no harm to equipment I'll try it out this way to see how it sounds.  It does make sense to minimize the electronics in the chain.  In the end, with the x9000 you don't need many if any tone controls or EQ, except that these TOTL e-stats expose many flaws in recordings, especially classical.  I'll experiment, thanks for the answers.


----------



## thinker

The best Stax ever, to get it you void the warranty and don't do the mod if you are not handy. I have listened to this now for some weeks

I bought a cheap used Stax SR-009 phone and decided to figure out if it can be modded to sound better. This mod showed up that the 009 can sound much better and is even better than the new X9K.

1. remove the stock leather pads
2. remove the protection grille and the rubber ring inside including the screws 
3. Install Stax 007mk2 latest stiff pads straight to the cup.

So what are the benefits. It's a much smoother sound without sibilance still transparent and detailed. Soundstage has improved vastly and is on par with X9K.
Very natural sound, slightly more balanced than X9K and overall very compellling sound. Bass has better definition, tighter, and the sound is more dynamic throughout all frequencies. Now this phone can handle large orchestras without loosing positioning. The sound is also exciting and interesting and not boring like the stock unit.
This phone is now much better, i estimate 20% better than stock unit and it looks also better.


----------



## thinker (May 16, 2022)

a few more words about this mod. If you thought the stock 009 is transparent this mod is the ultimate of transparency. Interestingly the new transparent "see trough" feature makes the phone sound smooth, also this mod makes the phone litterally disappear.

 The digital source sound is suddenly 3 dimensional as if listening for a great analog system.

The new X9K does not reach this level neither other previous Staxes. The "new" transparency of this mod doesn't make the phone sound faster, it's the opposite, it sounds slower, it sounds right.

A new feature is increased ability to show  instruments "real" character. The mod sound has "strech" , this is obvious because the stock 009 cuts tones short and appears in comparison quick-tempered or nervous.

The increased soundstage of the mod keeps tones (performance) harmonically together, the coherence here is stunning. In comparison the new X9K shows the same performance somehow as scattered.

I don't use any dust covers or grilles on the mod and have removed everything wich is possible . It appears that the 009 driver has stellar quality and it's potential performance ability was ruined by dust covers, grilles, screws , rubber bands and wrong pads.


----------



## KDS315 (May 16, 2022)

The STAX engineers working on such estats headphones over decades now are seemingly all kretins I would guess from your findings - right?? I’m sooo happy to have such a genius here now!!


----------



## BenF

thinker said:


> a few more words about this mod. If you thought the stock 009 is transparent this mod is the ultimate of transparency. Interestingly the new transparent "see trough" feature makes the phone sound smooth, also this mod makes the phone litterally disappear.
> 
> The digital source sound is suddenly 3 dimensional as if listening for a great analog system.
> 
> ...


Using 009 with dust covers - would could possibly go wrong?


----------



## thinker

BenF said:


> Using 009 with dust covers - would could possibly go wrong?


The driver needs to be protected, dust covers, grilles etc. safety standard etc. the factory doesn't like to have returns. The mod has it's own risks , it's a study or explore how to change the phone better, if it breaks it's my fault. If somebody likes to experiment give it a try you will be suprised


----------



## BenF

thinker said:


> The driver needs to be protected, dust covers, grilles etc. safety standard etc. the factory doesn't like to have returns. The mod has it's own risks , it's a study or explore how to change the phone better, if it breaks it's my fault. If somebody likes to experiment give it a try you will be suprised


I'm glad you understand the risks, but in your previous posts you were presenting the mode as X9K-killer with no downside...


----------



## mulveling

BenF said:


> I'm glad you understand the risks, but in your previous posts you were presenting the mode as X9K-killer with no downside...


The high risk of damage is implied when he said to remove the inner protective grill lol. Anyone with the skill to remove them is going to realize this. I'm interested in reading about the results, but I wouldn't do it myself. I like my stuff to keep working.


----------



## eskamobob1

mulveling said:


> The high risk of damage is implied when he said to remove the inner protective grill lol. Anyone with the skill to remove them is going to realize this. I'm interested in reading about the results, but I wouldn't do it myself. I like my stuff to keep working.



I agree tbh. I don't realy feel that any further disclaimer was needed


----------



## hifixman




----------



## BenF

mulveling said:


> The high risk of damage is implied when he said to remove the inner protective grill lol. Anyone with the skill to remove them is going to realize this. I'm interested in reading about the results, but I wouldn't do it myself. I like my stuff to keep working.


It's best not to assume that EVERYONE knows what you know, especially when high risk is involved.
Not every Stax owner is aware that modding electrostatics is much more dangerous than modding dynamics/planars - which they may have done in the past.

You don't want someone to post in this thread "I tried the mod shortly, and now my right channel is significantly quieter than the left one...".


----------



## mulveling

Part of what's great about the Stax user community is its rich DIY branch and a philosophy of "hey this isn't like your other headphones - learn first, then play at your own risk". We don't need every other post to be about, hey did you know there are deadly voltages in these amps?


----------



## thinker

I'm sure Stax engineers at some point in the development apartment have to make a compromise between safety standards and ultimate soundquality, they just try approximate two factors as close as possible. 

It appears that the mod removed the other and kept the ultimate soundquality. Threre is no reason that i write something on Head-fi if it's not a significant improvement, that's why i waited some weeks to be sure i my opinion.

Stax developed an ultimate driver but to implement it with safety standards and durability is the worst part in development. This phone could be my last , the satisfaction level couldn't be higher.

If you are careful i can not imagine that something goes wrong with this mod, i have had similar mods before, you have just to remember not to stick your fingers through the driver


----------



## BenF

thinker said:


> I'm sure Stax engineers at some point in the development apartment have to make a compromise between safety standards and ultimate soundquality, they just try approximate two factors as close as possible.
> 
> It appears that the mod removed the other and kept the ultimate soundquality. Threre is no reason that i write something on Head-fi if it's not a significant improvement, that's why i waited some weeks to be sure i my opinion.
> 
> ...


Outside of listening to the modded headphones only in an ISO 1 (https://www.clean-rooms.org/cleanroom-classifications/) clean room, how can one avoid getting dust on the drivers, causing degradation in performance? It's only a question of time...


----------



## thinker

BenF said:


> Outside of listening to the modded headphones only in an ISO 1 (https://www.clean-rooms.org/cleanroom-classifications/) clean room, how can one avoid getting dust on the drivers, causing degradation in performance? It's only a question of time...


There is still film in place to protect the driver from dust, you just have to be careful not to break it.


----------



## ufospls2 (May 16, 2022)

Well, my BHSE which I have sold shipped out today, and interestingly enough the timing worked out that my replacement amp also arrived this morning.

I had been looking for a KGSSHV Carbon, and reached out to @headinclouds who I thought had stopped doing commissioned work, and as far as I know
that is true. However, as luck would have it, he was selling his personal KGSSHV Carbon, so I ended up buying it from him.

Will report back with how it sounds.


----------



## Chefguru (May 16, 2022)

ufospls2 said:


> Well, my BHSE which I have sold shipped out today, and interestingly enough the timing worked out that my replacement amp also arrived this morning.
> 
> I had been looking for a KGSSHV Carbon, and reached out to @headinclouds who I thought had stopped doing commissioned work, and as far as I know
> that is true. However, as luck would have it, he was selling his personal KGSSHV Carbon, so I ended up buying it from him.
> ...


I was under the impression only the Mjolnir is actually a Carbon and everything else is actually just based off revisions to the public kgsshv pcb  ? Perhaps someone including Birgir can confirm.

From Mjolnir audio’s own site:
“
While on the subject of the Carbon, there is one thing I really didn’t want to address but I really have to.  That’s all the other Carbon amps out there which I have nothing to do with.  First some history, it is a common misconception that the Carbon was designed by Dr. Gilmore which isn’t true.  It is 100% based on his work and with his input but the part that makes it a Carbon was all done by me.  He even called me a bit nuts for attempting to do this.  🙂  This is important as only that first draft of the Carbon design was released to the public in the forms of the PCB’s we drew up.  The Carbon has been further refined as a design but none of those changes were ever published and never will be.

The reason I felt compelled to write this is because I’m a bit tired of support requests for builds I have nothing to do with.  People are unhappy with the amps or something has gone wrong and come to me for help, which I can’t give.  I have frankly no idea how these amps are built as none of the builders had the decency to come to me to ask permission to use my intellectual property for financial gain.  I for one don’t have a problem with others building my designs but they have to be built to my standards so that might be why nobody asked.  Also any claims that my Carbon is the same as one built using the stock circuit is utter BS.  They are not the same and the build quality can be shockingly bad.”


----------



## ufospls2 (May 16, 2022)

Chefguru said:


> I was under the impression only the Mjolnir is actually a Carbon and everything else is actually just based off revisions to the public kgsshv pcb  ? Perhaps someone including Birgir can confirm.
> 
> From Mjolnir audio’s own site:
> “
> ...


As far as I know there are differences with Birgirs builds, but the DIY carbon is still a "KGSSHV Carbon" in that  It puts out a lot more power than the standard KGSSHV and uses the SiCfet's. With that being said, I'm far from an expert, and someone with more knowledge will maybe be able to comment and clarify further. Perhaps @headinclouds will comment here on the differences between Birgirs builds and his build of the DIY version.

To be honest, I'm not too worried as its doing exactly what I wanted. A bit less heat, and slightly more power than the BHSE. I have a DIYT2 on order for more all out listening, but this amp serves the purpose I bought it for well.


----------



## hifixman

ufospls2 said:


> As far as I know there are differences with Birgirs builds, but the DIY carbon is still a "KGSSHV Carbon" in that  It puts out a lot more power than the standard KGSSHV and uses the SiCfet's. Perhaps @headinclouds will comment here on the differences between Birgirs builds and his build of the DIY version.
> 
> To be honest, I'm not too worried as its doing exactly what I wanted. A bit less heat, and slightly more power than the BHSE. I have a DIYT2 on order for more all out listening, but this amp serves the purpose I bought it for well.


Who is the builder of your T2


----------



## ufospls2 (May 16, 2022)

hifixman said:


> Who is the builder of your T2


Kerry.


----------



## droido256

BenF said:


> It's best not to assume that EVERYONE knows what you know, especially when high risk is involved.
> Not every Stax owner is aware that modding electrostatics is much more dangerous than modding dynamics/planars - which they may have done in the past.
> 
> You don't want someone to post in this thread "I tried the mod shortly, and now my right channel is significantly quieter than the left one...".


Pfft I’m not touching these except to replace the pads. Even with extreme care. I can’t imagine how much it would cost to have replacement drivers put in, if something borks. I personally wouldn’t risk anything getting into the driver from removing that dust cover…… these are just too pricy for me to fiddle with 😅.


----------



## dynavit (May 17, 2022)

Nothing new that EVERYTHING not build by Mjolnir is horribly bad or BS.
So don't give a crap about it.


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

Chefguru said:


> I was under the impression only the Mjolnir is actually a Carbon and everything else is actually just based off revisions to the public kgsshv pcb  ? Perhaps someone including Birgir can confirm.
> 
> From Mjolnir audio’s own site:
> “
> ...


Can you specify where you found this on the Mjolnir website? 

Nothing but respect for anyone who stakes a claim to intellectual property. That said, I prefer to know what's in my special sauce--a promise from the owner of the franchise that the sauce really is special seems inconclusive.

Would be interesting to read more commentary about differences between a Birgir Carbon vs. a Birgir Carbon CC (I thought almost no difference but maybe I'm wrong?), versus "all the other guys' Carbons". 

I have not read any commentary about these differences on any forum. That's weird.


----------



## Chefguru (May 17, 2022)

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> Can you specify where you found this on the Mjolnir website?
> 
> Nothing but respect for anyone who stakes a claim to intellectual property. That said, I prefer to know what's in my special sauce--a promise from the owner of the franchise that the sauce really is special seems inconclusive.
> 
> ...


https://mjolnir-audio.com/sample-page-2/
It's the post dated *15.08.18 *

I'm sure @spritzer (Birgir / aka Mjolnir) can clarify more so, but yes, my understanding is that the Carbon is IP and built very close to the "cost" since Birgir considers his work non-profit. Other builders are maybe putting the pieces together to build the same thing, but the information is not public the way it is for the Blue Hawaii or Megatron or even now T2. The big offender is the JR audio ones which aren't even the amp they say they are : https://www.head-case.org/forums/to...fiers-aka-zero-****s-are-given-caveat-emptor/


----------



## mulveling (May 17, 2022)

Birgir / Mjolnir can be a bit dramatic on the other site. But there's no doubting his skills are beyond reproach, the Carbon is his baby, and his amps are bulletproof reliable. I haven't heard a "proper" Mjolnir Carbon but the non-Mjolnir KGSShv-Carbons can still be very good, at least on the level of a BHSE - better at some things, not at others. I'd be more interested in a Grounded Grid (KGSShv-Carbon with a tube output stage) these days, but the KGSShv-Carbon with 009S or 007 Mk I is quite a killer pairing. It wasn't as good a pairing with the 009 or L700 Mk I (too bright and aggressive).

It's completely Mr. Mjolnir's right to keep the advanced Carbon schematics, but Dr. Kevin Gilmore always gave his away and the DIY branch of our hobby is so vivacious and well developed thanks to him.


----------



## kevin gilmore (May 20, 2022)

the kgsshv-carbon is my design.  started with the kgsshv, turned the 3rd and 4th stages into a single silicon carbide jfet high power output stage with cascode current source drive. hence the carbon label. the circlotron also uses the same silicon carbide jfet, and both amps can easily run 25+ma output stage current. with suitably large power supplies. many people had their hands in the grhv power supply including birgir,kerry,justin and jiml. and possibly others that i forgot about.

birgir makes all his own boards, and has made changes to parts and design elements. in addition the CC uses single strand pure silver wire hand stuffed in teflon tubing.
the hand stuffed silver wire is beyond my insanity limit.

birgir, justin,kerry, joamat and now dukei all do their own board layouts. and all of them are making modifications, sometimes extreme modifications. all of these things are of the highest quality, pick your poison.

on the other hand a couple of companies like jr audio and felista do some really evil things with obviously predicitable results. stay away from any boards on ebay that have the silkscreen layer modified into R# and C#. all the real gerbers are available and jlcpcb does a great job of making boards, delivering in a week, and at pricing that no one else seems to want to compete with.

and for the couple of amps out there with 1500uf juice can power caps, stay very far away from them.


----------



## thinker

did the same mod to 007mk2, the picture shows how much garbage is infront of the driver, so i don't wonder that you have to use monster amps to push some signal out to your ears. It's similar situation when you stick wax plug in your ears. Guess what happens when you remove all that safety standard crap. Bonus the phone is much lighter and it looks gorgeous


----------



## dynavit

Thanks for your statement.
Sounds a little bit different to "First some history, it is a common misconception that the Carbon was designed by Dr. Gilmore which isn’t true. It is 100% based on his work and with his input but the part that makes it a Carbon was all done by me. He even called me a bit nuts for attempting to do this. 🙂"


----------



## Chefguru

kevin gilmore said:


> the kgsshv-carbon is my design.  started with the kgsshv, turned the 3rd and 4th stages into a single silicon carbide jfet high power output stage with cascode current source drive. hence the carbon label. the circlotron also uses the same silicon carbide jfet, and both amps can easily run 25+ma output stage current. with suitably large power supplies. many people had their hands in the grhv power supply including birgir,kerry,justin and jiml. and possibly others that i forgot about.
> 
> birgir makes all his own boards, and has made changes to parts and design elements. in addition the CC uses single strand pure silver wire hand stuffed in teflon tubing.
> the hand stuffed silver wire is beyond my insanity limit.
> ...


Thanks Kevin - this was a much needed clarification for the new generation of mafia EStat members


----------



## zolkis

thinker said:


> did the same mod to 007mk2, the picture shows how much garbage is infront of the driver, so i don't wonder that you have to use monster amps to push some signal out to your ears. It's similar situation when you stick wax plug in your ears. Guess what happens when you remove all that safety standard crap. Bonus the phone is much lighter and it looks gorgeous



I have also used my 007 Mk1 without the spring and dust screen (plus modded the ear pads) almost from the beginning - and they sounded way more open and more... immediate .
But I never even thought about removing the metallic front plate. The protection membrane is quite exposed that way and I'd be afraid my ears would touch it. I have some spare front plates with hexagonal cutouts (from my Phenomenon mods) which have better airflow than this one with the circular cutouts - but that Stax front plate already has pretty good airflow, so I am not sure about the benefits vs risk. 
The back mesh plate is also important, but might not be the best thing to touch - the front vs back airflow resistance is usually carefully aligned with the driver size & cutout dimensions, and might not work well to change the back plate. Higher airflow back plates did wonders on my Phenomenon V5, but made the V3 sound worse.


----------



## BlueEmperor

Question for the experienced estat lovers here.

Carbon CC vs T2

Is T2 just unquestionably better than any other estat amp or do things like Carbon CC/BHSE do something better?

I just wonder if it's really worth to pull the trigger on funding T2.


----------



## chinsettawong

BlueEmperor said:


> Question for the experienced estat lovers here.
> 
> Carbon CC vs T2
> 
> ...


T2 is undoubtedly better.


----------



## eee1111 (May 19, 2022)

BlueEmperor said:


> Question for the experienced estat lovers here.
> 
> Carbon CC vs T2
> 
> ...


It depends

Like how bad do you need the money?

It’s a step up

I’d put the carbon and bhse on the same level and I’d say they’re enough for most people. But In this hobby everything is to the maxxxx and everyone wants to squeeze out that last bit of performance.

If you got 15K laying around I’d ask Kerry’s company to make one. The T2 is amazing.


----------



## mulveling (May 19, 2022)

For 009, 009S, 007 and he90 the T2 is undoubtedly better than KGSShv-Carbon and BHSE. Immediately apparent in even a short listen. Not even one attribute could go to the other amps. Very transformative of the 009 if you haven’t loved this headphone on other amps for being too bright or lean or whatever. Makes 009 on BHSE sound a bit sterile and boring by comparison. Makes the he90’s matching hev90 amp sound like a joke that lacks bass and dynamics. 007 or 009S on KGSShv-Carbon is superb but on a T2 they’re even better.

L700 on T2 is not a great match, these might even go backwards - they seem to top out around BHSE. You should be using the other headphones with T2.


----------



## hifixman

eee1111 said:


> It depends
> 
> Like how bad do you need the money?
> 
> ...


bhse sounds like nothing else tonally with a midrange magic, with JPS Pac Black and Nordost Q point vibration tool, BHSE will beat every single bit of Carbon with best solid state like lows and highs while painting its magic midrange.

If that cable and vibration tool comes with the stock bhse, Carbon will be out of business for good.


----------



## hifixman

Carbon is solid state sounding, T2 is classic tuby sounding, the stock bhse tuning is in the middle


----------



## mulveling

hifixman said:


> Carbon is solid state sounding, T2 is classic tuby sounding, the stock bhse tuning is in the middle


I can go with that. T2 has a classic / romantic tubey sound in the midrange, but seemingly without any downsides. Simply amazing how it fills in the 009. Music flows effortlessly on a T2, whereas it feels a bit reticent on the BHSE by comparison. KGSShv-Carbon gets a bit bright and aggressive with 009 and L700, and its midrange will feel dry compared to tubes (the 009S and 007 are its better pairings). To be sure, the BHSE & KGSShv-Carbon are still great amps, in an absolute sense.


----------



## Velomane

I was on a dig at Pompei recently and was astonished to find an inscription scrawled in the ash that read: "T2 = ne plus ultra" See, even the ancient Romans recognized that the T2 is Nigel Tufnel's eleven.


----------



## Chefguru (May 19, 2022)

BlueEmperor said:


> Question for the experienced estat lovers here.
> 
> Carbon CC vs T2
> 
> ...



The original Blue Hawaii (KGHB) was Kevin's attempt at making a safe/smarter T2. The BHSE (Blue Hawaii special edition) was a further v2 refinement to get closer to par with the original (aka unstable) T2 that stax made. The DIY T2 , is Kevin finally directly updating the T2 design to improved parts and not have the structural issues that lead the amp to demise. By this logic the BH is just a lesser version of the T2; the advantage is the price, safety and footprint.

The carbon CC however, is a different animal. As a solid state design it has a lot of technical advantages over the T2, such as
1) more reliable
2) less heat
3) much smaller ( and safely 1 box)
4) no warm-up needed

I have not heard the T2, so I can not comment on sonic differences but it seems like there is no advantage from the carbon from reviews. (Edit for clarity  = the T2 sounds  better).


----------



## eskamobob1

Chefguru said:


> I have not heard the T2, so I can not comment on sonic differences but it seems like there is no advantage from reviews.


Mind linking those reviews? Cause I've litteraly never once seen someone who has heard t2 prefer carbon over it


----------



## buzzlulu

Chefguru said:


> vantages over the T2, such as
> 1) more reliable
> 2) less heat
> 3) much smaller ( and safely 1 box)
> ...


Sorry however I cannot agree with this.  I have owned a Carbon for the past 3 years and know it well.  I was dissuaded from purchasing a Carbon CC by the man himself - Birgir - who sold me my Carbon.

I have just taken delivery of a Kerry made T2.
In a nutshell......there is simply no comparison.  The difference is so obvious.
Another forum member has been to my house twice demoing my 009S and X9000 on both the Carbon and T2.  He is contemplating a move to stats.  He flat out said after hearing the T2 there is no way he would go for anything else.
Obviously the T2 requires a significant financial commitment - in which case there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Carbon


----------



## mulveling

eskamobob1 said:


> Mind linking those reviews? Cause I've litteraly never once seen someone who has heard t2 prefer carbon over it


The guy who makes the Carbon CC is literally the only one I've ever seen who claims to prefer it over T2


----------



## Chefguru (May 19, 2022)

buzzlulu said:


> Sorry however I cannot agree with this.  I have owned a Carbon for the past 3 years and know it well.  I was dissuaded from purchasing a Carbon CC by the man himself - Birgir - who sold me my Carbon.
> 
> I have just taken delivery of a Kerry made T2.
> In a nutshell......there is simply no comparison.  The difference is so obvious.
> ...


You didn't read what I wrote correctly.
I said there was no sonic advantage to the Carbon but from a technical perspective the carbon offers 4 benefits. Are you disagreeing that the T2 isn't hotter, two boxes, and requires a warm-up? These are facts.


----------



## eskamobob1

Chefguru said:


> You didn't read what I wrote correctly.
> I said there was no sonic advantage to the Carbon but from a technical perspective the carbon offers 4 benefits. Are you disagreeing that the T2 isn't hotter, two boxes, and requires a warm-up? These are facts.



Your advantages have nothing to do with sound, which we were discussing. Plus the reliability point is hearsay at absalute best. At the very least I've never heard of either amp failing. Not like people gete are using the og t2


----------



## buzzlulu

eskamobob1 said:


> Your advantages have nothing to do with sound, which we were discussing. Plus the reliability point is hearsay at absalute best. At the very least I've never heard of either amp failing. Not like people gete are using the og t2


Exactly what eskamobob1 said above.
Who cares about heat, two boxes, or warm up.
Most here are after sound quality pure and simple - I know that is what counts for me.
If I want small, cold and no warm up I would buy the Stax D10 - sorry I will stay with the T2


----------



## Chefguru

buzzlulu said:


> Exactly what eskamobob1 said above.
> Who cares about heat, two boxes, or warm up.
> Most here are after sound quality pure and simple - I know that is what counts for me.
> If I want small, cold and no warm up I would buy the Stax D10 - sorry I will stay with the T2


*Many people *care about the inherent dangers of exposed tube amps, the room-adjusting heat, the replacement/reliability of tubes, the amount of room space required for a 50lb two-box amp, and a possible 1-hour pre-emptive warm-up period. Not everyone has the space or the ability to store such an item safely. A carbon is a much smaller footprint for a computer/desktop setup. Guys, you don't need to be zealots to praise the T2.


----------



## eskamobob1

Chefguru said:


> *Many people *care about the inherent dangers of exposed tube amps, the room-adjusting heat, the replacement/reliability of tubes, the amount of room space required for a 50lb two-box amp, and a possible 1-hour pre-emptive warm-up period. Not everyone has the space or the ability to store such an item safely. A carbon is a much smaller footprint for a computer/desktop setup. Guys, you don't need to be zealots to praise the T2.


Tbh I doubt the people worried about exposed tubes are wearing massive capacitors millimeters from their ears. Plus the carbon isn't even small. For people concerned about foot print options such as z10e, the new mini-t2 by Kerry, patlauf option, and a huge number of others are far far more reasonable options than the still full sized carbon


----------



## eskamobob1

Chefguru said:


> You didn't read what I wrote correctly.
> I said there was no sonic advantage to the Carbon but from a technical perspective the carbon offers 4 benefits. Are you disagreeing that the T2 isn't hotter, two boxes, and requires a warm-up? These are facts.



Rofl. Just realized that I'm jot the one that read wrong, you are. Let me quote your own post.



Chefguru said:


> I have not heard the T2, so I can not comment on sonic differences but *it seems like there is no advantage carbon from reviews*



The advantage is sonics. You are just quoting made up reviews until you link one. 

In other news ping me in a month when you sell your carbon and no longer have to worry about resale ajd start **** on it. We all know thats how these things go


----------



## Chefguru

eskamobob1 said:


> Rofl. Just realized that I'm jot the one that read wrong, you are. Let me quote your own post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Again, misreading what I'm saying. I believe that the T2 is sonically superior based on reviews, I'm agreeing you with you.


----------



## eskamobob1

Chefguru said:


> Again, misreading what I'm saying. I believe that the T2 is sonically superior based on reviews, I'm agreeing you with you.


Then you're first comment didn't reflect how you feel


----------



## ardbeg1975

Speaking of energizers but certainly one well below the caliber of a T2, I’m selling an unmodded 727A if anyone is interested.


----------



## lsantista

buzzlulu said:


> If I want small, cold and no warm up I would buy the Stax D10 - sorry I will stay with the T2


just saying but Im pretty sure my D10 runs hotter than my carbon!


----------



## Petergrifindor (May 20, 2022)

It's been about three weeks since I finally joined the Stax (and Hifi) family, and man, these things sound incredible. I'm rediscovering a lot of the music I've been hearing all my life, because there are so many new details and nuances that are revealed while listening with these.

I have to take care of my hearing now, because this is VERY addictive, and I don't think it can be good to use headphones so many hours...

Coming from the internal computer speakers and the old apple iems, the jump has been huge.


----------



## padam

Using headphones for many hours is perfectly fine as long as you keep the volume at safe level.

I try to keep it around 80-85dB depending on the headphone.


----------



## paradoxper

chinsettawong said:


> T2 is undoubtedly better.


Across the board it is better. Now the Circlotron, that's a much more difficult discussion.


----------



## chinsettawong

paradoxper said:


> Across the board it is better. Now the Circlotron, that's a much more difficult discussion.


I haven’t seen any running Circlotron around though.


----------



## paradoxper

chinsettawong said:


> I haven’t seen any running Circlotron around though.


Likely temperamental within reason. Ha.


----------



## eskamobob1

paradoxper said:


> Across the board it is better. Now the Circlotron, that's a much more difficult discussion.



Thinking about it, what else even competes with the t2? Viva stx and 3es elite maybe? But I feel like there is even less info our there on those two than t2


----------



## paradoxper

eskamobob1 said:


> Thinking about it, what else even competes with the t2? Viva stx and 3es elite maybe? But I feel like there is even less info our there on those two than t2


At the extremes, nothing puts it together coherently as the DIY T2. Megatron is definitely very good as is Grounded Grid but within technicalities, they fall short as does everything else.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Having only had my T2 a week, I've wanted to stay out of this conversation lol. Don't want to let new toy syndrome bias impact the conversation.

But the one thing I can say, is that I totally agree with a few others about how apparent the performance difference is against the BHSE. I know the BHSE very well, especially with the 009. And the T2 just performs at a higher level, and it's very apparent even on just the first listen. In the next month, I'll try to quantify the differences, but from a value prop standpoint it's just a personal decision. 

The BHSE is really great, honestly one of my favorite amps. Strikes a really nice balance between an analytical and musical presentation, with probably more of an emphasis on being analytical. Based on what I've read with the Carbon, I totally expect that it's also really good. I think either can be an end game for people without going the ultra premium route. Also, the SGL, which is really hard to drive properly, is the only pair of headphones that have ever felt like they could use just a bit more than what the BHSE provides--having the T2 now has validated that. But quite honestly, I truly enjoyed the SGL with the BHSE as well.. it's just that if you're going to pay that much for a pair of cans, imo you should get as much out of them as possible.


----------



## lsantista

Im trying gently damp microfiber cloth vs swiffer duster for dust removal on my gear. I like both, they seem to clean so well w/o the obvious "dust spreading" issue. but What if I want to take dust off from a stax headphone? Im not seriously considering the damp cloth, but do you guys think the swiffer is also not advisable since to my understanding it uses eletrostatics to keep dust attached to it? Im thinking on external cleaning plus pads, not putting anything past the pads


----------



## mulveling

Petergrifindor said:


> It's been about three weeks since I finally joined the Stax (and Hifi) family, and man, these things sound incredible. I'm rediscovering a lot of the music I've been hearing all my life, because there are so many new details and nuances that are revealed while listening with these.
> 
> I have to take care of my hearing now, because this is VERY addictive, and I don't think it can be good to use headphones so many hours...
> 
> Coming from the internal computer speakers and the old apple iems, the jump has been huge.


You're definitely right to be cautious with your hearing. But well-driven Stax headphones are among the least fatiguing of all headphones, and I feel like listening fatigue must be related to hearing risk. The combination of low fatigue AND top class detail from Stax is like nothing else out there. Even the 009 with its tipped-up response never  hurts my ears. My right ear is particularly sensitive to peaky, rough treble.


----------



## robo24

There are some free apps which you can use on your phone pressed into the ear cup to measure volume. Try not to go over 80 ever or just for short periods. I spent 2 years listening very loudly and developed tinnitus a year ago, even as I'd started lowering volume into the 70-80 db range for a couple months before it started. I thought at worst the risk was long term hearing loss to some degree but didn't realize tinnitus was also a major risk and majorly annoying.


----------



## Ciggavelli

eskamobob1 said:


> Thinking about it, what else even competes with the t2? Viva stx and 3es elite maybe? But I feel like there is even less info our there on those two than t2


I have the 3ES Elite.  I choose that over a DIY-T2 because of the 300B tubes in the 3ES, the massive power (though the T2 is also massively powerful), and that fact that I love Woo Audio.

As far as I know, I haven't seen anybody directly compare the 3ES Elite with the DIY-T2.  Some people just say that Woo Audio doesn't make good estat amps (because they made a mistake 10 years ago in one of their lower-end estat amps), and just assume the DIY-T2 is better.  Maybe the T2 is better, but I'd like to see direct comparisons between the two.  I'm curious about the DIY-T2 and would like to have it in my collection to directly compare against my 3ES Elite, but the cost and wait times are turning me off.


----------



## bigjako

A question to the DIYtech-minded Staxen Clan: Why isn’t it possible to create a little ‘stepdown transformer’-like box that allows a Normal Bias Lambda to be safely heard on a Pro Bias amp?  A voltage converter that transforms 230 to 580 from amp to earspeaker?


----------



## KDS315

bigjako said:


> A question to the DIYtech-minded Staxen Clan: Why isn’t it possible to create a little ‘stepdown transformer’-like box that allows a Normal Bias Lambda to be safely heard on a Pro Bias amp?  A voltage converter that transforms 230 to 580 from amp to earspeaker?


Doable as it just needs a simple voltage devider for the Bias DC voltage (basically two resistors only, but I would add a stabilizing capacitor) and a 6 pin connector.


----------



## headinclouds

Chefguru said:


> *Many people *care about the inherent dangers of exposed tube amps, the room-adjusting heat, the replacement/reliability of tubes, the amount of room space required for a 50lb two-box amp, and a possible 1-hour pre-emptive warm-up period. Not everyone has the space or the ability to store such an item safely. A carbon is a much smaller footprint for a computer/desktop setup. Guys, you don't need to be zealots to praise the T2.


Well I for one agree with what you say.  The trend with most electronics is for smaller, safer and better energy efficiency.  That is why my KGBH and KGGG have valve cages and are the smallest single box designs I could make with the published circuit boards.  I have also tried to make SS amps smaller and lighter by case design and use of porous ceramic "heat-sinks".


----------



## hifixman




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## bigjako (May 22, 2022)

KDS315 said:


> Doable as it just needs a simple voltage devider for the Bias DC voltage (basically two resistors only, but I would add a stabilizing capacitor) and a 6 pin connector.


Let’s call it the Kaydee and pitch it to Headphones.com or Headamp. But seriously, thank you.  I recently had my Electra serviced fo add a Normal Bias Jack and realize the Kaydee would let me hear a NB on a Carbon

I can see the stylish logo in front of my eyes. How much would it cost to make, like really and properly? No cutting corners?


----------



## Kerry

bigjako said:


> Let’s call it the Kaydee and pitch it to Headphones.com or Headamp. But seriously, thank you.  I recently had my Electra serviced fo add a Normal Bias Jack and realize the Kaydee would let me hear a NB on a Carbon
> 
> I can see the stylish logo in front of my eyes. How much would it cost to make, like really and properly? No cutting corners?


We have something like this in the works.  I'll keep you posted.


----------



## Kwangsun

Sorry if I'm barging in on this thread, but does anyone here know where to buy replacement earcup hanger for the SR-L500? They only seem to sell the entire headband assembly but I just need one of the earcup holders.


----------



## padam

https://www.electromod.co.uk/produc...Headphones/Stax-Replacement-L500-Case-Holder/
I assume the Mk2 metal part fits, and they cost nearly the same, so that's what I would choose (but then you need to buy a pair)


----------



## bigjako

Kwangsun said:


> Sorry if I'm barging in on this thread, but does anyone here know where to buy replacement earcup hanger for the SR-L500? They only seem to sell the entire headband assembly but I just need one of the earcup holders.


I use these freedom yokes from Socas: https://www.socas3d.com/headphonemods/oihvnebpecoqp83wcsb9dafcunoxi0?category=STAX SR-L300/L500/L700


----------



## BlueEmperor

Not sure about you people but I would take this T2 rather than 3ES... it just looks so good


----------



## buzzlulu

Boy my photo is really making the rounds 😆


----------



## eskamobob1

buzzlulu said:


> Boy my photo is really making the rounds 😆


Its pretty easy to get that way when there are like a dozen pick of the hyped item total in existence tbf


----------



## buzzlulu

eskamobob1 said:


> Its pretty easy to get that way when there are like a dozen pick of the hyped item total in existence tbf


OK then..... let me add some more👍🤣


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## musicman59

buzzlulu said:


> OK then..... let me add some more👍🤣


Oh my God! What a beauty!!!
I have been trying to resist the temptation to order one because of its price (will have to sell some stuff) but I might not be able to…


----------



## musicman59

@buzzlulu, what is the distance from the top of the power supply unit to the top of the tubes?

Thanks


----------



## Kerry

musicman59 said:


> @buzzlulu, what is the distance from the top of the power supply unit to the top of the tubes?
> 
> Thanks


The power supply is 4" tall and the amp with tubes is a little over 8" tall.  Stacked they are a little over 12".


----------



## mulveling

BlueEmperor said:


> Not sure about you people but I would take this T2 rather than 3ES... it just looks so good


Same. I thought the DIY T2 was the coolest looking headphone amp in existence, until Kerry started making his version.


----------



## musicman59

Kerry said:


> The power supply is 4" tall and the amp with tubes is a little over 8" tall.  Stacked they are a little over 12".


Thanks Kerry.


----------



## buzzlulu

mulveling said:


> Same. I thought the DIY T2 was the coolest looking headphone amp in existence, until Kerry started making his version.


If you look at my profile I have some very highly regarded 2 channel gear (Naim,Linn, dCS). Kerry's T2 has absolutely no problem being in the same company. The build quality is simply off the charts. Drop dead GORGEOUS. He really is a stickler on detail.


----------



## hifixman

buzzlulu said:


> If you look at my profile I have some very highly regarded 2 channel gear (Naim,Linn, dCS). Kerry's T2 has absolutely no problem being in the same company. The build quality is simply off the charts. Drop dead GORGEOUS. He really is a stickler on detail.


I think My photo is even better lol


----------



## Zoide (May 29, 2022)

oneguy said:


> I store mine under a heavy microfiber bags  that I hade made specifically for my headphones. It’s long enough that the opening rests on the surface so it effectively seals them off from dust. Been good enough for the L700, 009s, RR1 and will be good enough for my x9000 when they arrive.


Your signature says you have the SR-X9000, ES-1a, and Hive X on order.
Have the ES-1a or Hive X arrived yet? Or do you have an ETA?

I'm very curious to know how they compare to the L700 and RR1.

Thanks

EDIT:
Just realized that you already reviewed the ES-1a (https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/es-lab-es-1-alpha-es-1a-electrostatic-headphones.25825/reviews). How does it compare to the L700? Oops, that was lostrockets, not oneguy.

When do you expect to get the Hive X?


----------



## tjlindle

Kerry said:


> We have something like this in the works.  I'll keep you posted.


Wow that's awesome I'm very interested too. Can finally retire the SRM-1/mk2


----------



## ptenorio

Any recommendations for people who want to try Stax for the first time? I know they are powered differently. Are there models/types that don’t leak out as much sound?


----------



## Cortazar

-> Ptenorio
Lambda signature. If you can find one in good condition. Mids and highs to die for (better then 009 if you ask me) and bass that is  very ok if you hear to acoustic musik.


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## robo24 (May 28, 2022)

ptenorio said:


> Any recommendations for people who want to try Stax for the first time? I know they are powered differently. Are there models/types that don’t leak out as much sound?


The L300 is the cheapest current model and honestly, quite impressive. It's sometimes found with their cheapest energizer which should be fine. Having just bought a used SR-009 it's amazing how good the L300 still is in comparison. Certainly not the 7X better than L300, though still obviously a better listen overall.

Looks like the energizer is listed currently. https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/stax-srm-252s-direct-coupled-class-a-energiser.26512/


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## martin778

What can one expect from this SRD-7? Never seen a non-Stax version! CLICK


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## number1sixerfan

robo24 said:


> The L300 is the cheapest current model and honestly, quite impressive. It's sometimes found with their cheapest energizer which should be fine. Having just bought a used SR-009 it's amazing how good the L300 still is in comparison. Certainly not the 7X better than L300, though still obviously a better listen overall.
> 
> Looks like the energizer is listed currently. https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/stax-srm-252s-direct-coupled-class-a-energiser.26512/



Would agree. I have the L300 and I think it's a pretty good entry level model that's really well representative of what the Stax sound is generally like. It is also decently easy to power, but I would just keep in mind that just about every stax I've heard benefits greatly from better amplification, in particular the dynamic range. 

I actually planned to give mine away, along with the SRM-1/MK2, but I've found good use in having it as a backup/test combo when something goes wrong.


----------



## robo24

Yeah, I still have my L300 and keep wavering on selling it because I’d get so little for it, I might as well keep it. Far more impressive than the $300 used price would indicate.


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## DougD (Jun 3, 2022)

martin778 said:


> What can one expect from this SRD-7? Never seen a non-Stax version! CLICK


A Mjolnir SRD-7?

You can expect a working SRD-7 that has been upgraded and tested by one of the very top people working in the e-stat amps world, Spritzer aka Birgir from Iceland. It's going to be top of class for that type of equipment (energizer boxes), except for others that have been upgraded even further with expensive Lindahl transformers. You can get more info on this specific version at https://mjolnir-audio.com/, under amplifiers for electrostatic headphones.

If you already have a very good speaker amp, these can be a pretty cost effective way to power an e-stat headphone.

How close any energizer can get to SOTA performance compared to a dedicated e-stat amps is a debatable subject. There are a few flavors of energizers still in production or available. But I take it as very interesting that Stax itself has not sold any type of energizer in 40 years, and almost all of the reviews of the top e-stat headphones are by people who  have chosen to use the expensive, single purpose e-stat amps over energizers.

HTH.


----------



## martin778

> working SRD-7 that has been upgraded and tested



So this is an original SRD-7 stripped down, repackaged and tweaked to pro bias (or a refurbished SRD7 Pro?).


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## oneguy (May 28, 2022)

Zoide said:


> Your signature says you have the SR-X9000, ES-1a, and Hive X on order.
> Have the ES-1a or Hive X arrived yet? Or do you have an ETA?
> 
> I'm very curious to know how they compare to the L700 and RR1.
> ...


I’d rate the ES-1a above the L700mk1 and the L700 above the RR1. It’s been about 4 months since I last heard the ES-1a but from memory it sounded more open (wider sound stage) with more low end. It had been years since I heard a 007a but from memory I liked the ES-1a over the unmodded 007a out of a Stax amp. The 007a was lackluster and didn’t seal well in my head. Unfortunately the 007a wasn’t available to give a second shot when I had the ES-1a in January. I’m planning on heading to Tokyo to try the 007a and L500mk2 on @spritzer recommendation when the ES-1a comes in.

Hive X should arrive late this week or early next week.
ES-1a should ship next week
X9000 should arrive in a month or two

I also have plans to pick up another estat to try (Perun Rock) but no firm timeline on that


----------



## bigjako

oneguy said:


> It had been years since I heard a 007a but from memory I liked the ES-1a over the unmodded 007a out of a Stax amp. The 007a was lackluster and didn’t seal well in my head. Unfortunately the 007a wasn’t available to give a second shot when I had the ES-1a in January. I’m planning on heading to Tokyo to try the 007a and L500mk2 on @spritzer recommendation when the ES-1a comes



Curious why you’re heading to Tokyo to hear the 007a when you be already heard it and considered it lackluster.  What changed? I recently heard a Mk1 and need to have one now, but curious if somethings newly changed on the current model.


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## KDS315 (May 29, 2022)

martin778 said:


> What can one expect from this SRD-7? Never seen a non-Stax version! CLICK


Pretty good one, better than the original, made by Mjölnir Audio ("Spritzer") in Iceland, uses better transformers (at least there is one version using LUNDAHLs)


----------



## oneguy (May 29, 2022)

bigjako said:


> Curious why you’re heading to Tokyo to hear the 007a when you be already heard it and considered it lackluster.  What changed? I recently heard a Mk1 and need to have one now, but curious if somethings newly changed on the current model.


Mainly going to hear the L500mk2. Don’t really want to travel an hour and a half by train each way just to hear one headphone so I figure I’d give them another shot. Maybe I’ll have better luck this time? I’m also going to try a CRBN if they have one on hand and there a host of other non-estats to kill the time that I’d like to demo.

So it’s not just a 007a trip but it’s on the docket if they have one on hand. Nothing that I know of has changed other than the last time I tried one the T8000 wasn’t available. It’s not as good some of the DIY amps but it’s better than the last amp I tried one on. I’d love it if I could get one for an at home demo since most say they need power to give them a fair shake.


----------



## claudiuschan

Finally finished modded my SRM-T1 with CCS over this weekend. Thanks to you guys 😊 for all the info in this thread.


----------



## KDS315

claudiuschan said:


> Finally finished modded my SRM-T1 with CCS over this weekend. Thanks to you guys 😊 for all the info in this thread.


Congrats, you’ll be amazed how much this improves the sound! Very happy with mine (plus ECC99 tube mod)


----------



## claudiuschan

KDS315 said:


> Congrats, you’ll be amazed how much this improves the sound! Very happy with mine (plus ECC99 tube mod)


Thanks!. Yes it really does.. Love it on my 007MK1. 

I am not a pro listener, my experience so far are improve on the soundstage and lower end. Mid sound lust and warm, high still the remains STAX signature fast and not fatigue. 

Just curious how much current your ECC99 running ? and do you use ECC99 gold version ?

I am still wondering if it worth ECC99 upgrade because there is mod on the PCB and irreversible. Perhaps till the time where 6CG7 getting too expensive


----------



## KDS315 (May 30, 2022)

Around 5.8mA is the CCS set for running the ECC99 from what I know. About 20% more than the standard 4.8mA before. Personally I find it worth the irreversible modification, and yes it is the Gold Pin ECC99, but that is the identical tube, just with gold pins which do not oxidize over time. Has no audible effect.

It even drives my SR 007Mk1 rather well and my easier to drive SR 009.


----------



## tjlindle

Since there was some talk of entry-level above, the L300 is great I agree, also the 303/404 can be found in sub-$400 range on secondary market and are two of the best Lambda.

It's too bad Nectar Sound doesn't do the $350 Pollinator anymore, while it was available that was arguably the best price-to-performance I've ever heard in headphones, hell even at almost double the price the Hive X is incredible price-to-performance.


----------



## GGSuperMe

I need help in making a decision. So I have a Nectar HiveX coming in and should be here with 1-2 weeks. I need an electrostatic amp or energizer and I have a budget of up to $2200 CAD (Canadian). The options are quite limited in Canada, so I have the following options:
USED:
-Lightly Used L500 and SRM-353X. Bought in 2021. $1380
-Very lightly used (Maybe 3 hours) Hifiman Jade II Electrostatic Amplifier $1000
-Audio Valve Solaris $3350 (Demo Model) The store that heavily discounted it is offering a 1 year warrantee (Audio Valve no longer in business) - I could stretch for it, but reluctant because I don't know if it's any better, plus getting this might require me to ship it off in the distant future to try and get it serviced.
-A well used SRM-006ts rated as 8/10 by the owner.
-Stax SRM-T1 - Over 10 years old but describe as in excellent condition for $999
-SRM-007tII Driver Unit c/w with NOS RCA clear top matched tubes and described by it's owner as in mint condition for $1800.
-iFi iESL new for $1999, but I don't have a speaker amp and to drive it with my headphone amp I would need to by a 4 pin headphone extension cable. There is one available on Amazon Canada for $130 CAD. Since this is new I would have to pay taxes so that brings it to $2200 before buying a cheap speaker amp, or headphone extension cable. Also I would be driving it off of a Jot2 or Fiio K9 Pro which is stated to be able to output 46 Vpp which using a online calculator suggests that it is capable for outputting 16 vrms. The iESL requires between 10-20 vrms at 64 Ohms. I have no idea if that changes the amount of vrms that the iESL would receive from the K9 Pro. As for the Jot 2, Not sure if this would work, couldn't find any useful information and frankly it's not the best amp. I love the sound coming out of the K9 Pro AKM version.
-Bottlehead Electrostatic Amp (new built to order) - $1499 USD so with conversion to CAD and duties, probably somewhere around $2200 CAD. Also the build time could be anywhere from 4-8 weeks. The problem with this choice is that I would have to wait 1-2 months (probably closer to 2 months) to finally get to listen to the HiveX.
-SRM-400S for around $1700 after taxes.

So which one do I get? Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcomed.


----------



## GGSuperMe

Forgot to put the Woo Wee new for about $1000 CAD new. I would need to get a speaker amp and would have around $1000 - $1200. Could get a Used Schiit Aegir and use the K9 Pro's preamp.


----------



## ufospls2

GGSuperMe said:


> Forgot to put the Woo Wee new for about $1000 CAD new. I would need to get a speaker amp and would have around $1000 - $1200. Could get a Used Schiit Aegir and use the K9 Pro's preamp.


Might be worth also checking out the options below

The SRD-7

https://mjolnir-audio.com/products/

And these

https://mjolnir-audio.com/used-amplifiers/


----------



## GGSuperMe

ufospls2 said:


> Might be worth also checking out the options below
> 
> The SRD-7
> 
> ...



Thank you. I emailed about the Octave II tonight, and asked him about shipping times and any suggestions that he might have. Waiting for a reply which likely won't be until tomorrow since it is quite late in Iceland.


----------



## slazhx (Jun 3, 2022)

GGSuperMe said:


> Thank you. I emailed about the Octave II tonight, and asked him about shipping times and any suggestions that he might have. Waiting for a reply which likely won't be until tomorrow since it is quite late in Iceland.



I have Mjolnir "KGSS Klassik" that I don't use anymore. The original price was $2500 which I can sell you around half price or so. The unit is 220V. Feel free to PM if you are interested. Folks here can comment whether it is a good move for you


----------



## tjlindle

Now here's finally a comparison I've been wanting to listen to for a very long time - at last, after a couple years, I was able to source a good condition Nova Basic to compare to the Classic there on the left, which has been one of my main workhorses for quite some time. I don't think the Nova Basic is particularly "rare" but I've had a lot of trouble getting my hands on one for various reasons, now to see how it stacks ("stax?") up to its big brother.

The Nova Signature is technically part of this too, I did have a LNS but sold it since it was worth more than the Classic and I didn't perceive much of a difference between the two. Maybe the LNS had slightly better treble extension but I'm confident I could not tell the two apart in a blind test.

So the Basic is actually a pretty interesting headphone in my opinion, it is essentially splitting the difference between a NB Lambda and the LNC/LNS. The sound sig is quite balanced and mid-centric like the NB Lambda, but it has that trademark smoothness/warmth of the Nova line and thus where the NB Lambda presents things in a bright yet euphonic way, the Basic presents them with similar euphony but in a more relaxed manner. I could see people who like the NB Lambda but wish it was just a tad less bright, really digging the Nova Basic.

Now the other key that makes it surprisingly similar to the NB Lambda, and where it really differentiates itself from the LNC/LNS big brothers, is in how forward the presentation is. The Basic is an extremely detail-forward Lambda, in fact I think in this respect it even outpaces the NB Lambda and draws the closest comparison to the L300. I also really enjoyed this quality of the L300, it was not as resolving or technical as the L700 but in some ways it made up for it with a fun, detail-forward presentation that brought most of the track right up into your ears and didn't really make you work too hard for it. 

The Basic pulls a similar trick, and yet somehow manages to simultaneously build a wider soundstage than the L300 (though, to be fair, the L300 does have one of the smallest stages of the Lambda line in my experience). What this gives you is a detail-forward, fun, punchy presentation that nevertheless has just a hint of layering and texture, it's really an awesome and peculiar presentation that could very well be one of my favorites in the Lambda line.

Compared to the LNC/LNS, the Basic is not quite as resolving nor nuanced, but it feels way more "present" due to the more forward sound, and is arguably more immediately engaging and fun as a result. The Nova line is known for being a smooth, enjoyable listen, and that is definitely the case here, but it's quite apparent that this is the more rambunctious little brother in the trio.

I would be very interested if anyone knows what drivers are in the Basic. It sounds close enough to the LNC/LNS that I could see it being the same driver, just presented differently; but it is just different enough that I'm wondering if it derives from the Lambda Pro Classic/Spirit instead (I have not heard those to be clear).

So tl;dr: I like the Nova Basic a lot, kind of like a warmer NB Lambda with L300 detail presentation. Anyone who likes the Nova line, the NB Lambda, or the L300/L500 would probably be happy with it.

Also, it has the superior black color scheme...so much better than the olive drab🤢


----------



## Zoide

tjlindle said:


> now to see how it stacks ("stax?") up to its big brother


😄


----------



## HiFiGuy94

98664c3yijh said:


> Sviatoslav,
> 
> I have 007MkI (with 009 modded earpads) and BHSE. I jumped into BHSE without auditioning after living for years with SRM-717. This was an epiphany, I needed about 2-3 months to understand and learn what this amp does and redigest my musical collection. It sounded involving even with a crappy source (youtube from mobile), not to mention advanced ones (I have a TT with 2 arms/carts plus a supertuner). The only thing I do now is investing in better tubes. I listen to exclusively classical  (from baroque to 20th century).
> 
> ...


Hey bro, i was thinking about ordering a TT soon for my STAX SR-L700 MK2's. How do you think they will pair?


----------



## oneguy

Zoide said:


> Your signature says you have the SR-X9000, ES-1a, and Hive X on order.
> Have the ES-1a or Hive X arrived yet? Or do you have an ETA?
> 
> I'm very curious to know how they compare to the L700 and RR1.
> ...


The ES-1a arrived yesterday and the HiveX last Tuesday but the HiveX will be getting swapped for another set due to a driver issue. Driver issues aside, I’d rate the ES-1a at the top of the heap. Lovely sound. Deep bass and no issues with humidity (not temperamental like the RR1 and HiveX). Fit on the ES-1a is loose like the demo pair I tried back in January but it still manages to keep the bass levels high which is nice. 

For the HiveX, I don’t want to go into it too much as the new pair with the corrected driver issues may have a different sound but I’d say it’s worth the $99 over the RR1 based on my initial impressions. For the RR1, it take less time to get the drivers charged so they are balanced well. My RR1 can sometimes take 10-20 minutes if it’s been a while since I listened to it and until then the drivers output at the same sound level. The HiveX out of the box was balanced well. 

The RR1 has issues if the relative humidity gets in the 65-75% range. The HiveX maybe will too but again we’ll see with the new pair. 

As far as feel, the HiveX is easier to adjust since it doesn’t require tools. The stock headband on the RR1 is very easy to break. I broke mine on my third time wearing them which necessitated a replacement with an L700 headband so it would be more sturdy. No such issues with the HiveX. 

I like that the HiveX came with a flat cable but it does seem rather fragile compare to the Stax cables and the one that came with the RR1. This is my biggest gripe so far. 

The ES-1a is definitely above the L700
IMO. The RR1 is below the L700. The HiveX I haven’t quite decided how it relates to the L700. 

I’ll get more details on the sound when I have more time with the ES-1a and the other HiveX arrives.


----------



## mulveling

The ES-1a has been slowly growing on me. It's been operating opposed to my 007 Mk I on an old-but-good-sounding KGSShv (IXYS 500V) in my weekend loft. I've also pulled in the 009 for brief stints, only to remember I no longer dig its tonality or lack of musicality on this amp. Of course, all the 009's issues are beautifully resolved on a T2, but that's not in play right now. The 007 Mk I and this KGSShv are a "real world" perfect match. Sure, detail and dynamics get leaps better on a T2, but this pairing's musicality and overall sonic balance tracks quite closely here. 

The ES-1a on this KGSShv is "close" to a great match. Technically they're beautiful; very clean, accurate, detailed, huge soundstage. Tonality is warm if not lush - natural, and much improved versus the 009. However they seem slightly dark somehow. The presentation is missing that last degree of...Pizazz? Vivaciousness? Punchiness? They're certainly musical, but not *quite *as musical and liquid as the 007 Mk I on this KGSShv. The 007 surprisingly dials in that "sparkle" the ES-1a seems to be missing, even as the latter actually is more technically impressive overall. In the early ES-1a comparisons, there was talk about "dark" pads, which seemed to be the more popular option. I think perhaps ES Labs has now standardized on these "dark" pads. I wish I could tweak the pads to be slightly less dark!

I upgraded my DAC recently from a Questyle CAS192 to a Phison PD2 SE2, and wow, both the 007 Mk I and ES-1a responded like crazy to that. My OG Yggdrasil gets returned from repairs this week, but I somewhat doubt that will match the Phison. 

The L700 Mk 2 driven by a clone HEV90 tube amp has become my main headphone setup at the weekday residence. This is another amazing "real world" combination. The technicalities of L700 are excellent (even better with Mk 2 over Mk 1), but do lag a little behind a well driven 007 / ES-1a / 009. Along with the weird asymmetric headstage of the lambda form factor (which doesn't bother me). But man, for fun enjoyable music listening this combo beats or matches any e-stat combo I've heard until you pull out a T2 (ironically the L700 kinda sucks on T2). The 007 Mk I / KGSShv combo is heaps of fun, but still loses out to this L700 / HEV90 clone.


----------



## SolarCetacean

mulveling said:


> The L700 Mk 2 driven by a clone HEV90 tube amp has become my main headphone setup at the weekday residence. This is another amazing "real world" combination. The technicalities of L700 are excellent (even better with Mk 2 over Mk 1), but do lag a little behind a well driven 007 / ES-1a / 009. Along with the weird asymmetric headstage of the lambda form factor (which doesn't bother me). But man, for fun enjoyable music listening this combo beats or matches any e-stat combo I've heard until you pull out a T2 (ironically the L700 kinda sucks on T2). The 007 Mk I / KGSShv combo is heaps of fun, but still loses out to this L700 / HEV90 clone.


"Asymmetrical headstage" struck me as a pretty good description for the L700mk2's soundstage/imaging, though I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing. To me, the L700 presents a more stage-like image than any non-Lambda headphone I've listened to, like it pulls parts of music that normally appear off to the sides of my head towards the front. None of my other headphones do that. It works really well for orchestral pieces and other performances where the musicians are recorded on a stage, because it has the effect of gathering the different parts into a "stage" with defined boundaries rather than being distributed in a sphere around me as if I was standing in the conductor's position.


----------



## slazhx

arayasg said:


> I have Mjolnir "KGSS Klassik" that I don't use anymore. The original price was $2500 which I can sell you around half price or so. The unit is 220V. Feel free to PM if you are interested. Folks here can comment whether it is a good move for you



Sorry to be off-topic. 

I have just put the Mjolnir KGSS Klassik listing in the classified section. Please feel free to PM if interested. If this is not the proper manner of posting the listing here, please let me know and I will remove it from this thread right away.

Thank you.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/mjolnir-audio-kgss-klassik-electrostatic-headamp.27065/


----------



## hifixman

SolarCetacean said:


> "Asymmetrical headstage" struck me as a pretty good description for the L700mk2's soundstage/imaging, though I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing. To me, the L700 presents a more stage-like image than any non-Lambda headphone I've listened to, like it pulls parts of music that normally appear off to the sides of my head towards the front. None of my other headphones do that. It works really well for orchestral pieces and other performances where the musicians are recorded on a stage, because it has the effect of gathering the different parts into a "stage" with defined boundaries rather than being distributed in a sphere around me as if I was standing in the conductor's position.


Tonally to my ears it is closest to original omega.


----------



## mulveling (Jun 6, 2022)

SolarCetacean said:


> "Asymmetrical headstage" struck me as a pretty good description for the L700mk2's soundstage/imaging, though I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing. To me, the L700 presents a more stage-like image than any non-Lambda headphone I've listened to, like it pulls parts of music that normally appear off to the sides of my head towards the front. None of my other headphones do that. It works really well for orchestral pieces and other performances where the musicians are recorded on a stage, because it has the effect of gathering the different parts into a "stage" with defined boundaries rather than being distributed in a sphere around me as if I was standing in the conductor's position.


Yes the omega-types all present a spherical head-stage; the L700 do not. I listen to a lot of rock and the L700 serves this very well - its unique staging presentation is part of its charm, but not its ONLY charm in comparison to the omega types. I really like the L700 a lot; always have. It maxes out on a BHSE or this HEV90 clone, but also does well on a KGST. Seems to love tubes. The Mk 2 version was a good revision that makes the L700 even better 

As far as efficiency - it seems like reports on this ES-1a have been varied. Perhaps this was affected by early pad swapping? Here, with the current stock pads, I find its efficiency to be nearly the same as 007 Mk I - i.e. not very efficient. It's less efficient than the 009, and much less than L700! The HEV90 tube amp audibly struggles to retain grip over the omega types at higher volumes, but does beautifully with L700. It sounds excellent with ES-1a, but you're limited in the volume you can push here before SQ degrades. The 500V IXYS KGSShv provides excellent drive and grip over everything, but is not the best tonal match for 009 and L700.


----------



## bigjako

mulveling said:


> As far as efficiency - it seems like reports on this ES-1a have been varied. Perhaps this was affected by early pad swapping? Here, with the current stock pads, I find its efficiency to be nearly the same as 007 Mk I - i.e. not very efficient. It's less efficient than the 009, and much less than L700!


My personal experience aligns with this - the ES-1a and 007 Mk1 have the same efficiency, which are both much less efficient than any Lambdas. The 007 Mk1 worked well with both the Mjolnir Carbon and EC Electra, while the ES-1a works wonderfully with the Carbon, though (very sadly to me) not with the all-tube Electra.


----------



## droido256

Just bought a srm400s, and looking at the circuit photos, noticed 4 neon bulbs towards the front of the unit. I was wondering the purpose for neon bulbs inside a amp, and not for obvious illumination. Just curious.


----------



## KDS315

droido256 said:


> Just bought a srm400s, and looking at the circuit photos, noticed 4 neon bulbs towards the front of the unit. I was wondering the purpose for neon bulbs inside a amp, and not for obvious illumination. Just curious.


It is LEDs btw and they are used to get some stabilized voltages…


----------



## droido256

KDS315 said:


> It is LEDs btw and they are used to get some stabilized voltages…


Aaaaah I see, I see.


----------



## kevin gilmore

KDS315 said:


> It is LEDs btw and they are used to get some stabilized voltages…


absolutely not. they are neon lightbulbs and are input protection for the fets.

there are also red led's that are used as voltage reference for the current sources.


----------



## ufospls2

mulveling said:


> Yes the omega-types all present a spherical head-stage; the L700 do not. I listen to a lot of rock and the L700 serves this very well - its unique staging presentation is part of its charm, but not its ONLY charm in comparison to the omega types. I really like the L700 a lot; always have. It maxes out on a BHSE or this HEV90 clone, but also does well on a KGST. Seems to love tubes. The Mk 2 version was a good revision that makes the L700 even better
> 
> As far as efficiency - it seems like reports on this ES-1a have been varied. Perhaps this was affected by early pad swapping? Here, with the current stock pads, I find its efficiency to be nearly the same as 007 Mk I - i.e. not very efficient. It's less efficient than the 009, and much less than L700! The HEV90 tube amp audibly struggles to retain grip over the omega types at higher volumes, but does beautifully with L700. It sounds excellent with ES-1a, but you're limited in the volume you can push here before SQ degrades. The 500V IXYS KGSShv provides excellent drive and grip over everything, but is not the best tonal match for 009 and L700.


I also found the ES1a to be pretty similar in terms of efficiency as the SR007mk2.


----------



## droido256

kevin gilmore said:


> absolutely not. they are neon lightbulbs and are input protection for the fets.
> 
> there are also red led's that are used as voltage reference for the current sources.


Ah so they are neon, I thought they looked like the ones sent with my tesla coil……so more of a power spike absorber….. unpacking it and looking inside through the vent…. Def is one nice set of kit. Never saw neon in a amp circuit before.


----------



## droido256 (Jun 7, 2022)

droido256 said:


> Ah so they are neon, I thought they looked like the ones sent with my tesla coil……so more of a power spike absorber….. unpacking it and looking inside through the vent…. Def is one nice set of kit. Never saw neon in a amp circuit before.


On a side note. Holy hell this thing is HUGE. Oh but does it ever have excellent control over what I guess is the stators. Currently testing it through the L-300 on the erm offchance something goes wrong, sadly rather fry a 400$ headphone vs a 1700$ one. It isn’t any louder, but the detail, I guess estat really is dependant on its driver (testing vs d-10, and a 252) this song tho through it I’m listening to now, def a remarkable improvement over the d-10, and the Srm-252 (not knocking either of those two, both esp for their price are still astounding in their own right.


----------



## oneguy

Just got an email that my X9000 is at the shop I ordered it through. I wasn’t expecting it for another 2-6 weeks but I think I’ll get it it by the end of this week.


----------



## KDS315

oneguy said:


> Just got an email that my X9000 is at the shop I ordered it through. I wasn’t expecting it for another 2-6 weeks but I think I’ll get it it by the end of this week.


Which AMP will you be using to drive it with?


----------



## oneguy (Jun 7, 2022)

@KDS315  KGGG


----------



## hifixman

oneguy said:


> Just got an email that my X9000 is at the shop I ordered it through. I wasn’t expecting it for another 2-6 weeks but I think I’ll get it it by the end of this week.


when and where did you order it?
Congratulations


----------



## droido256 (Jun 7, 2022)

Ok now my nosy stage is active. Curious who makes the fet? Pulling up the J5502 number brings up a Fairchild data sheet. Anyone decode these numbers better? Lol again curiosity


----------



## droido256

droido256 said:


> Ok now my nosy stage is active. Curious who makes the fet? Pulling up the J5502 number brings up a Fairchild data sheet. Anyone decode these numbers better? Lol again curiosity


Found it, Onsemi, J5502 design from their acquisition of Fairchild Semi. Or so things seem to line up as such.


----------



## oneguy

hifixman said:


> when and where did you order it?
> Congratulations


Apr 21st through the company e-earphone. When I ordered it Stax was quoting 2-3 months for delivery.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jun 7, 2022)

Wrong thread


----------



## seadog123 (Jun 7, 2022)

Apologies if this has been asked before, but I can’t find any historic threads about it.

Anyone prefer the current STAX 007 mk2 over the Focal Utopia ? I had a Final D8000 Pro and sold it for an IEM system and want to move back to headphones.

My budget now is STAX 007mk2 and the 400S energiser. With intentions of going the 700S energiser in 18m time.

Both will have the Chord Qutest as DAC source. For budget reasons, the Utopia will be matched to Focal Arche. 
So budget wise, 007Mk2, 400S, Chord Qutest vs Utopia, Arche and I’ll have to add my Chord Mojo2 as the DAC until I have funds in 18m for Qutest.

My music is varied, but a lot of pop. Rock, country, punk. I value speed, punch, detail and soundstage.


----------



## droido256 (Jun 8, 2022)

Question about the 400s, the iPhone directly cabled into rca through the little dongle thingy, doesn’t seem to have as much oompfh with the 400s as it did with the 252 and the d10, are these higher end amps harder to drive off something like a iPhone? Sound quality is ….. astounding but directly connected to the iPhone have to have the volumes on both turned pretty far up, around 2:00 on the 400s. 

Oh! Edit, is the xlr in the 400 balanced? Before I go and buy a balanced 2.5 to dual xlr cable. 

…….. see folks this is what happens when you finally after 20 years buy a srs-3100…… get sucked into this paradise…. And money whole 🤣 love it, wish I bought them 20 years ago, well the equivalent then


----------



## padam

seadog123 said:


> My budget now is STAX 007mk2 and the 400S energiser. With intentions of going the 700S energiser in 18m time.
> 
> My music is varied, but a lot of pop. Rock, country, punk. I value speed, punch, detail and soundstage.


You are wasting your money with a 700s (even more so than the 400s).
Not that it's a terrible amp or anything, but it is no different to a 717 or a slightly better modified 727. You can get these on the used market for 3x less.

I've seen some fantastic looking builds from @johnwmclean, so I would consider contacting him.
Here is an example


----------



## oneguy

oneguy said:


> Just got an email that my X9000 is at the shop I ordered it through. I wasn’t expecting it for another 2-6 weeks but I think I’ll get it it by the end of this week.


They came a lot sooner than expected.


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

oneguy said:


> They came a lot sooner than expected.


Didn't you mention earlier that you'll use a GG? Any reasons why? I'm curious, as I'm getting a Carbon and a Megatron to compare with x9000, but I was also advised to get a GG.


----------



## oneguy

Aspirant Audiophile said:


> Didn't you mention earlier that you'll use a GG? Any reasons why? I'm curious, as I'm getting a Carbon and a Megatron to compare with x9000, but I was also advised to get a GG.


I had a Carbon and a GG made at the same time to compare the two. The GG was more to my preference. I had the L700 at the time. The Carbon was too sharp for my ears and more analytical than musical.

I want to try a Megatron if for nothing else other than to see all of those glorious tubes, lol. It’s on my list but I honestly think the DIY T2 is next on my queue. I almost bought one back in 2018 but I redirected funds to something else.


----------



## mulveling (Jun 8, 2022)

oneguy said:


> I had a Carbon and a GG made at the same time to compare the two. The GG was more to my preference. I had the L700 at the time. The Carbon was too sharp for my ears and more analytical than musical.
> 
> I want to try a Megatron if for nothing else other than to see all of those glorious tubes, lol. It’s on my list but I honestly think the DIY T2 is next on my queue. I almost bought one back in 2018 but I redirected funds to something else.


I had a KGSShv Carbon, and with L700 (Mk I) I actually liked the sound a lot (not too analytical; actually a pretty fun and exciting sound) but as you also experienced it was definitely too sharp and hot in treble - I couldn't listen for very long like that. The L700 Mk II has somewhat smoother treble, but in my experience the L700 models should absolutely be paired with tube outputs. The exception to this is the T2 being a bad match for L700 (somehow sounded "wrong") - a T2 sonically reinforces all the top-class electrostatics (increasing dynamics, slam, and natural warmth) in ways that become sonically destructive to the L700's nature.


----------



## hifixman

mulveling said:


> I had a KGSShv Carbon, and with L700 (Mk I) I actually liked the sound a lot (not too analytical; actually a pretty fun and exciting sound) but as you also experienced it was definitely too sharp and hot in treble - I couldn't listen for very long like that. The L700 Mk II has somewhat smoother treble, but in my experience the L700 models should absolutely be paired with tube outputs. The exception to this is the T2 being a bad match for L700 (somehow sounded "wrong") - a T2 sonically reinforces all the top-class electrostatics (increasing dynamics, slam, and natural warmth) in ways that become sonically destructive to the L700's nature.


I feel tonally L 700 is close to X9000 except its highs are not rolled off as X9000. I did pair my L 700 with T2 at Canjam with Mullard tubes with unsatisfied results. Yet I think with different tubes like the one used by Kerry now they could be a good match.


----------



## oneguy

mulveling said:


> I had a KGSShv Carbon, and with L700 (Mk I) I actually liked the sound a lot (not too analytical; actually a pretty fun and exciting sound) but as you also experienced it was definitely too sharp and hot in treble - I couldn't listen for very long like that. The L700 Mk II has somewhat smoother treble, but in my experience the L700 models should absolutely be paired with tube outputs. The exception to this is the T2 being a bad match for L700 (somehow sounded "wrong") - a T2 sonically reinforces all the top-class electrostatics (increasing dynamics, slam, and natural warmth) in ways that become sonically destructive to the L700's nature.


I haven’t a heard a T2 yet but it’s that scaling across the board from the headphones I own that sounds appealing. Plenty of Stax around here but no place to demo other than Stax amps. Maybe I’ll be lucky and there will be a headphone festival this year and someone will have one on hand.


----------



## bigjako

mulveling said:


> I had a KGSShv Carbon, and with L700 (Mk I) I actually liked the sound a lot (not too analytical; actually a pretty fun and exciting sound) but as you also experienced it was definitely too sharp and hot in treble - I couldn't listen for very long like that. The L700 Mk II has somewhat smoother treble, but in my experience the L700 models should absolutely be paired with tube outputs. The exception to this is the T2 being a bad match for L700 (somehow sounded "wrong") - a T2 sonically reinforces all the top-class electrostatics (increasing dynamics, slam, and natural warmth) in ways that become sonically destructive to the L700's nature.



I was just listening to my L300LE (each person can decide if they think that is similar enough to an L700 to be relevant here) and could not take more than 30 minutes of it on the Carbon.  I am listening to it a lot lately, because it's the best reference Stax to use on both the Carbon and the all-tube Electra as I roll tubes on the Electra.  I find it handy to have the Carbon as a benchmark to compare against, to have a standard to compare back to as I swap tubes over multiple days / weeks. 

Anyways, the L300 LE works equally well with both amps but eventually I have to stop using it on the Carbon, when I switch over to the ES-1a and enjoy that on the Carbon.  It has a much smoother top end, but the transient edges are still about equally sharp between them, it's still incisively solid state.  I know what you say about the Carbon being more analytical or less musical, and for me it is in that direction compared to the Electra but it's only ever harsh with the L300 LE (more than other Lambdas, too). 

On the Electra, the LE feels more rounded, with softer edges but still resolving and transparent (subject to tube rolling, too).


----------



## mulveling

bigjako said:


> I was just listening to my L300LE (each person can decide if they think that is similar enough to an L700 to be relevant here) and could not take more than 30 minutes of it on the Carbon.  I am listening to it a lot lately, because it's the best reference Stax to use on both the Carbon and the all-tube Electra as I roll tubes on the Electra.  I find it handy to have the Carbon as a benchmark to compare against, to have a standard to compare back to as I swap tubes over multiple days / weeks.
> 
> Anyways, the L300 LE works equally well with both amps but eventually I have to stop using it on the Carbon, when I switch over to the ES-1a and enjoy that on the Carbon.  It has a much smoother top end, but the transient edges are still about equally sharp between them, it's still incisively solid state.  I know what you say about the Carbon being more analytical or less musical, and for me it is in that direction compared to the Electra but it's only ever harsh with the L300 LE (more than other Lambdas, too).
> 
> On the Electra, the LE feels more rounded, with softer edges but still resolving and transparent (subject to tube rolling, too).


Wish I still had a Carbon to run the ES-1a; that seems like it would be a great match!


----------



## HiFiGuy94

I just found a reasonably priced JR AUDIO 'KGSS' Electrostatic Amp in my country. Have you guys heard of this brand before? Do you reckon its legit and that it will sound alright?


----------



## paradoxper

HiFiGuy94 said:


> I just found a reasonably priced JR AUDIO 'KGSS' Electrostatic Amp in my country. Have you guys heard of this brand before? Do you reckon its legit and that it will sound alright?


Jesus Christ. Just say NO.


----------



## HiFiGuy94

paradoxper said:


> Jesus Christ. Just say NO.


Yeah Wow, is it really that bad is it? hahaha


----------



## ufospls2

HiFiGuy94 said:


> Yeah Wow, is it really that bad is it? hahaha


You would be much better off with the below option

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/mjolnir-audio-kgss-klassik-electrostatic-headamp.27065/


----------



## SolarCetacean

HiFiGuy94 said:


> Yeah Wow, is it really that bad is it? hahaha


From seeing teardowns of the JR Audio amps, they likely sound fine, but their internal construction probably wouldn't pass regulatory safety tests. They appear to be low-effort, corner-cut clones of the KGSS. When you're dealing with electronics handling hundreds of volts, it's better to be safe than to go with a builder who doesn't use resistors with the proper power handling ratings.


----------



## HiFiGuy94

ufospls2 said:


> You would be much better off with the below option
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/mjolnir-audio-kgss-klassik-electrostatic-headamp.27065/


Looks good mate, I'll send him a message. Cheers for that. 



SolarCetacean said:


> From seeing teardowns of the JR Audio amps, they likely sound fine, but their internal construction probably wouldn't pass regulatory safety tests. They appear to be low-effort, corner-cut clones of the KGSS. When you're dealing with electronics handling hundreds of volts, it's better to be safe than to go with a builder who doesn't use resistors with the proper power handling ratings.



Good to know man, thanks for clarifying.


----------



## HiFiGuy94

ufospls2 said:


> You would be much better off with the below option
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/mjolnir-audio-kgss-klassik-electrostatic-headamp.27065/


Annnnnnnd I've T-ed up the purchase. Thanks again mate. Life saver.


----------



## paradoxper

HiFiGuy94 said:


> Yeah Wow, is it really that bad is it? hahaha


It's been covered and is nothing new. Congrats on saving yourself the headache and on your T.


----------



## ufospls2

HiFiGuy94 said:


> Annnnnnnd I've T-ed up the purchase. Thanks again mate. Life saver.


Thats great man, hope it works well for you.


----------



## HiFiGuy94

ufospls2 said:


> Thats great man, hope it works well for you.


Cheers man. It was either this or the Mjolnir Audio Tiny Triode, but i think this will be a decent upgrade at least...


----------



## Chefguru

paradoxper said:


> Jesus Christ. Just say NO.


Hero 🤝


----------



## CT007

With 007 MKII, what kind of differences will there be between KGSSHV, Carbon, and Carbon CC?


----------



## HiFiGuy94

anyone know of any good dual XLR to 3.5mm (3 or 5m) cable I could buy to hook up the KGSS KLASSIK electrostat amp to my laptop? looking for a quality cable...


----------



## KDS315

CT007 said:


> With 007 MKII, what kind of differences will there be between KGSSHV, Carbon, and Carbon CC?


It sounds too dark, too dark and too dark - unless you use proper EQ, namely the ORATORY1990 settings, THAT did it for me


----------



## CT007

KDS315 said:


> It sounds too dark, too dark and too dark - unless you use proper EQ, namely the ORATORY1990 settings, THAT did it for me


Haha.. Well, would you recommend a different energizer then? Or it's all great stuff, but the headphone doesn't show much difference?


----------



## KDS315

The CARBON (CC) will certainly tame it better for sure....but for me the main step was using EQ


----------



## CT007

KDS315 said:


> The CARBON (CC) will certainly tame it better for sure....but for me the main step was using EQ


Does this mean that the MKII is bright/harsh? Compared to the older 007s? Or they're all kinda the same in the treble?

KGSSHV is $2750, and Carbon CC will be probably over $6000... So maybe I'll just see if I like the sound at that point, before going for a Carbon. I've only heard L300 and L300 LTD so far, on a 252S, after all.


----------



## padam (Jun 9, 2022)

You are getting a big improvement with a better amp, whether you apply EQ or not.
Only more power can provide better bass control, impact, dynamics and transients.
In fact, you loose quite a bit of headroom, so a more powerful amp is even more advisable, if you use EQ.

After being not very impressed last time, I have tried a few of these profiles again.
There is a free software called Mega Switcher which makes this a lot easier.
(It takes some time to input all the profiles you intend to use)

They still don't work well for me on the SR-007 Mk1 or Mk2. They have different versions and require bending the arc assembly by the user to fit adding yet more deviations, etc. They are simply tuned towards a different target that is more coloured but not necessarily "inferior sound" to the Harman target.
Just seems best to just let these play music how they like it: soft, weighty, soothing, fatigue-free, liquid vocals, diffused depth and imaging, etc.

Then there is also the matter on perceived changes in sound signature with electrostatics at differing volume levels.
There is no compensation for that, and I listen at different volumes depending on the headphones, and I feel that this becomes more uneven after EQ is applied.

Works ok on the L300LE though, decent improvement, but still don't think the sound is suited to my taste.
Surprisingly, the headphone where this EQ is most effective is the Lambda Pro (I had multiple Lambda Pros and I noticed excellent consistency between them, more so than with other vintage Staxes) but I feel that even KGSSHV runs out of steam a bit, so there is not quite enough heft to the sound. (The Lambda Pro is not as easy to drive as you might think). But as-is, it sounds really good overall.


Lambda Pro vs L300LE with EQ applied:
- L300LE has superior impact, speed, detail, imaging, and it is easier to drive.
- Lambda Pro has better transients, deeper bass, more dynamic and relaxed.

If I take the EQ off, the original tonality comes back, but there is less strain on the system, dynamics coming back. There is no free lunch.


----------



## mulveling (Jun 9, 2022)

HiFiGuy94 said:


> Yeah Wow, is it really that bad is it? hahaha


Yes, ~ 60dB of gain and rails running +/- hundreds of volts makes ES amplification a different world than any other audio component. With "normal" headphone amplifiers and preamps we can laugh at the bad design decisions & build quality of some products, and usually it will still be "ok" to use for the most part. Not so with direct driver electrostatic amps. Even very good builds & builder can have problems here. You indeed saved yourself much heartburn buying that Mjolnir KGSS Klassic! That thing will be rock solid and probably outlast us.


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## CT007 (Jun 9, 2022)

padam said:


> You are getting a big improvement with a better amp, whether you apply EQ or not.
> Only more power can provide better bass control, impact, dynamics and transients.
> In fact, you loose quite a bit of headroom, so a more powerful amp is even more advisable, if you use EQ.


With 007 MKII, which energizer would you go to, above KGSSHV? Perhaps something that also works well with L700, down the road.


----------



## padam

CT007 said:


> With 007 MKII, which energizer would you go to, above KGSSHV? Perhaps something that also works well with L700, down the road.


The Carbon is an easy recommendation, it probably has the best bass impact and you may find someone in the US, who can build it for you for a reasonable cost.
But you can also look for a used Blue Hawaii SE as well as some people are upgrading further.

And also, there is that new tiny beast called the Eksonic Aeras, which has been touted as capturing the essence of the DIY T2 in a much more compact package, and it also has the build quality of a commercial product.

As far as the L700 goes, it will work, but that one probably needs EQ more and I personally find older Lambdas (particularly the normal bias version) to have a more balanced, musical and organic quality to them. (It also depends on the type of music you are listening to as the bass is certainly not the most punchy or textured but the mids are really great.)


----------



## mulveling (Jun 9, 2022)

CT007 said:


> Does this mean that the MKII is bright/harsh? Compared to the older 007s? Or they're all kinda the same in the treble?
> 
> KGSSHV is $2750, and Carbon CC will be probably over $6000... So maybe I'll just see if I like the sound at that point, before going for a Carbon. I've only heard L300 and L300 LTD so far, on a 252S, after all.


I mean certainly the Carbon is better but a KGSShv is going to be a huuuuge step up for you and pairs great with 007 (though I have Mk I, not 2). So if the cost difference is stressing you out, put your mind at ease and go for KGSShv. Put it this way - the KGSShv is way, way closer to a Carbon than Stax 727a was to KGSShv. The KGSShv is way closer to a Carbon than the Carbon was to T2. A KGSShv is where this electrostatic stuff starts to get really damn good. It's a little too dry to pair ideally with everything (like 009, L700), but for a 007 it's near perfect. The 007 Mk I is indeed a little dark but either a KGSShv or Carbon can bring out its sparkle IMO.

A Headamp BHSE is also a very solid amp in the same tier as Carbon IMO. It's a little warmer & less punchy and so maybe the Carbon is a little more ideal match for 007. But it pairs pretty well with ANYTHING - 009, 007, L700 for sure. And its resale value is unbeatable, especially if you buy used.


----------



## HiFiGuy94

mulveling said:


> Yes, ~ 60dB of gain and rails running +/- hundreds of volts makes ES amplification a different world than any other audio component. With "normal" headphone amplifiers and preamps we can laugh at the bad design decisions & build quality of some products, and usually it will still be "ok" to use for the most part. Not so with direct driver electrostatic amps. Even very good builds & builder can have problems here. You indeed saved yourself much heartburn buying that Mjolnir KGSS Klassic! That thing will be rock solid and probably outlast us.


Ahh good to know, cheers for clarifying.

Would you say the Mjolnir KGSS KLASSIC is still an improvement over the Mjolnir Audio Tiny Triode?


----------



## mulveling

HiFiGuy94 said:


> Ahh good to know, cheers for clarifying.
> 
> Would you say the Mjolnir KGSS KLASSIC is still an improvement over the Mjolnir Audio Tiny Triode?


I can’t say for sure - haven’t heard the tiny triode and last time I heard a KGSS was 16 years ago! My guess is the TT will be really sweet for easy to drive Lambdas but the KGSS will do a better job controlling the omega-type headphones. Either one should be a nice amp.


----------



## HiFiGuy94

mulveling said:


> I can’t say for sure - haven’t heard the tiny triode and last time I heard a KGSS was 16 years ago! My guess is the TT will be really sweet for easy to drive Lambdas but the KGSS will do a better job controlling the omega-type headphones. Either one should be a nice amp.


Good to know man, cheers. 

Anyone else heard these amps and can compare?


----------



## jjshin23

Never heard any electrostatic headphones before and the first time was a blind purchase of the 007mk1 (early serial) off the Stax SRD-7mk2 running through Pass Lab INT150. This was the first headphone I felt that the sound was out of my head completely. I've felt that way about the HD800 to some degree but not as though the headphones just disappeared off my head. I have since picked up 007mk2 and ES-1. These don't have the same affect as the first listen and still from the 007mk1 and leaves me thinking I can get more out of the entire experience if I picked up a better amp combo like KGSSHV... Could anyone tell me how much of an improvement this would be going from SRD7mk2 to KGSSHV?


----------



## Eich1eeF

jjshin23 said:


> Never heard any electrostatic headphones before and the first time was a blind purchase of the 007mk1 (early serial) off the Stax SRD-7mk2 running through Pass Lab INT150. This was the first headphone I felt that the sound was out of my head completely. I've felt that way about the HD800 to some degree but not as though the headphones just disappeared off my head. I have since picked up 007mk2 and ES-1. These don't have the same affect as the first listen and still from the 007mk1 and leaves me thinking I can get more out of the entire experience if I picked up a better amp combo like KGSSHV... Could anyone tell me how much of an improvement this would be going from SRD7mk2 to KGSSHV?


If you're chasing the "out of your head" experience, maybe consider a Smyth Realiser or a software solution that has similar capabilities. Try googling "HRTF" "PRIR" or SOFA.


----------



## Chefguru

Eich1eeF said:


> If you're chasing the "out of your head" experience, maybe consider a Smyth Realiser or a software solution that has similar capabilities. Try googling "HRTF" "PRIR" or SOFA.


Maybe I’m out of the loop - is there really software one can download that replicates a smyth realiser effect ?


----------



## Eich1eeF

Chefguru said:


> Maybe I’m out of the loop - is there really software one can download that replicates a smyth realiser effect ?


I'd say the main appeal of the Realiser is that it has everything in a single box (from measuring the PRIR to decoding Atmos or DTS-X), and the head tracking feature is kind of unique. Regarding software, the obvious solution is OOYH, but other solutions include the fusion DSP plugin for volumio, the sofalizer plugin for VLC and other software that works with SOFA. You'll still need a pair of in ear microphones and a good room + speakers to record a convincing PRIR that's worth using. I've tried none of the software solutions.


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## TYATYA (Jun 13, 2022)

Is my unit refurbished stax 007tii?

I notice a yellow sticker on main board.

For some (or most) factories it indecate refurbish level red/yellow/green but idk the case Stax.

I am 1st owner. Ordered new one on Amz Japan


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## timb5881

jjshin23 said:


> Never heard any electrostatic headphones before and the first time was a blind purchase of the 007mk1 (early serial) off the Stax SRD-7mk2 running through Pass Lab INT150. This was the first headphone I felt that the sound was out of my head completely. I've felt that way about the HD800 to some degree but not as though the headphones just disappeared off my head. I have since picked up 007mk2 and ES-1. These don't have the same affect as the first listen and still from the 007mk1 and leaves me thinking I can get more out of the entire experience if I picked up a better amp combo like KGSSHV... Could anyone tell me how much of an improvement this would be going from SRD7mk2 to KGSSHV?


Not sure you will get a better experience with a dedicated amp vs the SRD7 and the pass amp


----------



## jjshin23

timb5881 said:


> Not sure you will get a better experience with a dedicated amp vs the SRD7 and the pass amp


Thanks for the reply. Curiosity got the best of me so I picked up a used KGSSHV to see how that goes. In coming maybe in a week.


----------



## mulveling

jjshin23 said:


> Thanks for the reply. Curiosity got the best of me so I picked up a used KGSSHV to see how that goes. In coming maybe in a week.


Interested to hear your experience. I haven't tried the SUT approach here yet (and I love using SUT's for MC cartridges). I've read for years that direct drive for electrostats is technically superior and I get that, but then my ears don't always agree with the measurements. I have a wonderful SS amp I love, just sitting idle right now, that would probably be great for this approach - Phison A120.2 SE.

Anyways, the KGSShv is a great amp and great match for 007. Just be aware there were a lot of versions over the years and I've heard distinctly different "voicings" between the old IXYS 500V (onboard heat sinks) to Sanyo 450V (off board) to Birgir's minis (400V I think?). The Sanyo 450V was a lot warmer sounding than the others, but maybe "too much" for a 007.


----------



## jjshin23

mulveling said:


> Interested to hear your experience. I haven't tried the SUT approach here yet (and I love using SUT's for MC cartridges). I've read for years that direct drive for electrostats is technically superior and I get that, but then my ears don't always agree with the measurements. I have a wonderful SS amp I love, just sitting idle right now, that would probably be great for this approach - Phison A120.2 SE.
> 
> Anyways, the KGSShv is a great amp and great match for 007. Just be aware there were a lot of versions over the years and I've heard distinctly different "voicings" between the old IXYS 500V (onboard heat sinks) to Sanyo 450V (off board) to Birgir's minis (400V I think?). The Sanyo 450V was a lot warmer sounding than the others, but maybe "too much" for a 007.


I'm quite interested in seeing the difference as well. I know Pass Lab amps are on the warmer side in general and the KGSSHV that I picked up is the current build Sanyo Parts, as it was stated on the listing, with dual Pro jacks. My understanding is this amp (Sanyo version) is on the warmer side as you mentioned so we'll see how it goes from the 007mk1, mk2 to ES1a. These are not really bright headphones so it may be warm on warm - but I'll be looking for detail, imaging, sound stage, etc... as well.


----------



## mulveling

jjshin23 said:


> I'm quite interested in seeing the difference as well. I know Pass Lab amps are on the warmer side in general and the KGSSHV that I picked up is the current build Sanyo Parts, as it was stated on the listing, with dual Pro jacks. My understanding is this amp (Sanyo version) is on the warmer side as you mentioned so we'll see how it goes from the 007mk1, mk2 to ES1a. These are not really bright headphones so it may be warm on warm - but I'll be looking for detail, imaging, sound stage, etc... as well.


If anything I find the ES-1a to have even darker treble than my 007 Mk I. So yeah - warm headphones there!


----------



## paradoxper

jjshin23 said:


> I'm quite interested in seeing the difference as well. I know Pass Lab amps are on the warmer side in general and the KGSSHV that I picked up is the current build Sanyo Parts, as it was stated on the listing, with dual Pro jacks. My understanding is this amp (Sanyo version) is on the warmer side as you mentioned so we'll see how it goes from the 007mk1, mk2 to ES1a. These are not really bright headphones so it may be warm on warm - but I'll be looking for detail, imaging, sound stage, etc... as well.


You should love it. KGSSHV Sanyo is better (as in more enjoyed) than Carbon. Should complement your Pass just as well.


----------



## jjshin23

paradoxper said:


> You should love it. KGSSHV Sanyo is better (as in more enjoyed) than Carbon. Should complement your Pass just as well.


That is good to hear it's a good one. Looking forward to it.


----------



## HiFiGuy94

paradoxper said:


> You should love it. KGSSHV Sanyo is better (as in more enjoyed) than Carbon. Should complement your Pass just as well.


Thinkin of Energizers, i spoke with Mjolnir Audio's Birgir and he recommended the Tiny Triode for a better (Warmer sound sig) over the harsher/sibilant KGSS KLASSIK with my Sr-l700 mk2's. Though he admitted the KGSS KLASSIK was the superior amp just not for my earspeakers.


----------



## Zoide

HiFiGuy94 said:


> Thinkin of Energizers, i spoke with Mjolnir Audio's Birgir and he recommended the Tiny Triode for a better (Warmer sound sig) over the harsher/sibilant KGSS KLASSIK with my Sr-l700 mk2's. Though he admitted the KGSS KLASSIK was the superior amp just not for my earspeakers.


Interesting... I actually have a KGSS Klassik coming tomorrow as an upgrade to my SRM-323S, and my current earspeakers are the L700 mk1.

I'll get the Nectar Hive X soon after, so hopefully those will be a better match in case the L700 aren't.

Then again, all amps should just provide a flat frequency response, without any "coldness" or "warmth" (unless we're talking about "euphonic" tube distortions coloring the sound)... 🤔


----------



## mulveling

HiFiGuy94 said:


> Thinkin of Energizers, i spoke with Mjolnir Audio's Birgir and he recommended the Tiny Triode for a better (Warmer sound sig) over the harsher/sibilant KGSS KLASSIK with my Sr-l700 mk2's. Though he admitted the KGSS KLASSIK was the superior amp just not for my earspeakers.


That's what I've been saying - the L700 loves tubes. It's still good with a KGSS[hv][Carbon] and its bass will be sweet, but your ears better be cool with some energy up top, and the L700 midrange really blossoms with tubes.


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## HiFiGuy94

mulveling said:


> That's what I've been saying - the L700 loves tubes. It's still good with a KGSS[hv][Carbon] and its bass will be sweet, but your ears better be cool with some energy up top, and the L700 midrange really blossoms with tubes.


Glad to hear bro. Sounds like i made the right decision then. I literally got the last of Mjolnir Audio's Tiny Triode's too haha.


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## CT007 (Jun 17, 2022)

I was not aware there is a variant(s?) of KGSSHV - KGSSHV Carbon... And a CHEAPER variant($2662), at that, compared to Mjolnir's standard HV($2750):
https://www.myheadfi.com/product/kg...x-sr-l300-l500-l700-009-earspeaker-pre-order/

So, with a 007MKII, which would be best? (or, another option not listed)

Mjolnir KGSSHV ($2750, available now)
JR Audio KGSSHV Carbon (with/without upgrades) (do not need Normal jack)
Eksonic Aeras ($7000, 2 month lead time)


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## paradoxper

CT007 said:


> I was not aware there is a variant(s?) of KGSSHV - KGSSHV Carbon... And a CHEAPER variant($2662), at that, compared to Mjolnir's standard HV($2750):
> https://www.myheadfi.com/product/kg...x-sr-l300-l500-l700-009-earspeaker-pre-order/
> 
> So, with a 007MKII, which would be best? (or, another option not listed)
> ...


It's like why bother.


----------



## lostrockets

anyone have the 007t mod with CCS/6s4a? if so - was wondering if you've tried changing the tubes and what the effect on sound was, if any...

havent really been able to find much info on tube sound characteristics in this amp. though my tube rolling days are past me, i would make an effort to get a few different brands if it makes a difference. if not ill just get a bunch of the same type


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## slazhx (Jun 16, 2022)

According to the stax thread on Head-case, Birgir showed what inside the amp made by JR really was. Imho, we should try to avoid from buying it.

Here is the link I'm talking about.

https://www.head-case.org/forums/to...fiers-aka-zero-****s-are-given-caveat-emptor/

Read with your own judge.


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## mulveling

CT007 said:


> I was not aware there is a variant(s?) of KGSSHV - KGSSHV Carbon... And a CHEAPER variant($2662), at that, compared to Mjolnir's standard HV($2750):
> https://www.myheadfi.com/product/kg...x-sr-l300-l500-l700-009-earspeaker-pre-order/
> 
> So, with a 007MKII, which would be best? (or, another option not listed)
> ...


They can’t even spell Dr Gilmore’s name right. And you’re going to trust them to build an amp pushing over 1600 Volts PPSS? Are you crazy?


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## CT007

Oh man. . . LOL. Ok, that narrows it down to Mjolnir KGSSHV and Aeras, haha.


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## HiFiGuy94

CT007 said:


> Oh man. . . LOL. Ok, that narrows it down to Mjolnir KGSSHV and Aeras, haha.


Everyone always has good things to say about the Mjolnir KGSSHV, thus why i bought a Mjolnir energizer myself. Never heard of the Aeras, but im new here so take that for what you will.


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## CT007 (Jun 16, 2022)

HiFiGuy94 said:


> Everyone always has good things to say about the Mjolnir KGSSHV, thus why i bought a Mjolnir energizer myself. Never heard of the Aeras, but im new here so take that for what you will.


I suspect one has better bass and power(HV), and one has better spaciousness(Aeras). And one probably tames treble better(no idea which), and sounds "sweeter"(Aeras?). Hopefully they are of equal quality, just different sound flavors and prices(Aeras=unknown).

I'm kind of expecting 007 to sound like a wider, darker HE-6 v1. Or an improved LCD-3. I enjoyed the mid-bass of L300, so if 007 has similar bass I'll like it. Other sounds I like would be M40X, LCD-3, LCD-4, LCD-2, FD7, Mobius, HD660, 1266, and the super open AD900X, and probably LCD-X. Sounds I dislike: all spikey & damped Beyers, soft & veiled Sennheisers, typical thin/neutral HiFiMans(Sundara, XS, HE-400, 400SE, 500), lifeless K553, excessively wide/incorrect soundstaging K702/712, Clear.


----------



## Mach3

mulveling said:


> They can’t even spell Dr Gilmore’s name right. And you’re going to trust them to build an amp pushing over 1600 Volts PPSS? Are you crazy?


https://imgur.com/gallery/rE46r


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## KDS315 (Jun 16, 2022)

lostrockets said:


> anyone have the 007t mod with CCS/6s4a? if so - was wondering if you've tried changing the tubes and what the effect on sound was, if any...
> 
> havent really been able to find much info on tube sound characteristics in this amp. though my tube rolling days are past me, i would make an effort to get a few different brands if it makes a difference. if not ill just get a bunch of the same type


Supposedly sounds more "transistor like": more ooommppff, "harder" and colder sound than the standard tubes. Difference between the various makers of 6S4A seem to be rather small; most liked seem to be the NOS RCA or GE types which have gotten a bit rare these days.

If I may quote "SPRITZER" from 2012, he stated: "The 6S4/6S4A were only made by a few manufacturers so not a whole lot of variation there and they have much less of an impact than the input tubes."

Was wondering if I should get one 007T modified for me, too, hence why I had looked into that; but haven't made a decision yet ... also since I have my ANTARES tube hybrid already and a ECC99/CCS modded T1.


----------



## jjshin23

CT007 said:


> Oh man. . . LOL. Ok, that narrows it down to Mjolnir KGSSHV and Aeras, haha.


Heard an illustration yesterday and it might apply here as well.


Mjolnir KGSSHV
Eksonic Aeras
These two amps would be like a white wedding cake and chocolate grooms cake. You can decide which flavor or cake you like better.


JR Audio KGSSHV Carbon (with/without upgrades) (do not need Normal jack)
This would be like a burnt wedding cake. You can put all the fancy frosting you want but it’s still a burnt cake.

Sorry for this last part but I couldn’t resist. With the first two amps you can have your cake and eat it too…


----------



## bigjako

A bit of a specific question/request for the Stax folks, but I've searched high and low and found only one video that shows it.  I've tried searching for the EP-007 user manual, too, with no luck.  Does anyone have any instructions or know of any guides for replacing the SR-007 (mk1, if it matters) earpads?  I'm afraid of doing damage.  

Do I put the metal ring in first, then install the earned over that (and the flange of the cups), or take the metal ring out, install into the pads first, then install the merged assembly onto the cups, as per the video.  The guy in the video had to swap methods midway through so I'm trying to source the wisdom of the experts before manhandling these. Any tips or warnings are appreciated.


----------



## nepherte

I left out the metal ring altogether on my 007A. Seems to work just fine.


----------



## padam

bigjako said:


> A bit of a specific question/request for the Stax folks, but I've searched high and low and found only one video that shows it.  I've tried searching for the EP-007 user manual, too, with no luck.  Does anyone have any instructions or know of any guides for replacing the SR-007 (mk1, if it matters) earpads?  I'm afraid of doing damage.
> 
> Do I put the metal ring in first, then install the earned over that (and the flange of the cups), or take the metal ring out, install into the pads first, then install the merged assembly onto the cups, as per the video.  The guy in the video had to swap methods midway through so I'm trying to source the wisdom of the experts before manhandling these. Any tips or warnings are appreciated.


Here is the manual







But the video shows it perfectly, they go on together.


----------



## yaluen

Definitely spring into the pads then middle pin into the grommet first, else you risk poking the drivers. Instead of pinching and pulling the flap into place as in the video, I like to slide a small section of the flap into the gap first (maybe hold it in place with a thumb) and with a couple fingers in the ear cavity push the entire earpad assembly outward laterally, working around and slipping in the rest of the flap. Dunno if that's clear, am away from home at the moment or I could make a video, ping me in a couple days if you still need.


----------



## bigjako

Amazingly helpful, thank you everyone!  I took off the stocks to clean and ordered 2 replacements from Vesper Audio (one as close to stock as possible and the other with some alacantra to see how that impacts the sound, primarily the treble).  Since I'm going to have to install them twice in the next month I may try nephrite's idea to not use the ring on the first install.


----------



## yaluen

Video from Stax, maybe try with an Allen wrench or similar:


----------



## bigjako

yaluen said:


> Video from Stax, maybe try with an Allen wrench or similar:



Thank you, that's the best video yet.  I really must get one of those little hook tools he uses, seems like it would useful for a lot of earned replacements.


----------



## lostrockets

bigjako said:


> Amazingly helpful, thank you everyone!  I took off the stocks to clean and ordered 2 replacements from Vesper Audio (one as close to stock as possible and the other with some alacantra to see how that impacts the sound, primarily the treble).  Since I'm going to have to install them twice in the next month I may try nephrite's idea to not use the ring on the first install.


how come youre getting vesper instead of stock replacements?


----------



## lostrockets (Jun 16, 2022)

KDS315 said:


> Supposedly sounds more "transistor like": more ooommppff, "harder" and colder sound than the standard tubes. Difference between the various makers of 6S4A seem to be rather small; most liked seem to be the NOS RCA or GE types which have gotten a bit rare these days.
> 
> If I may quote "SPRITZER" from 2012, he stated: "The 6S4/6S4A were only made by a few manufacturers so not a whole lot of variation there and they have much less of an impact than the input tubes."
> 
> Was wondering if I should get one 007T modified for me, too, hence why I had looked into that; but haven't made a decision yet ... also since I have my ANTARES tube hybrid already and a ECC99/CCS modded T1.


thanks for the tip, i just replaced the tubes with an extra set i bought and theres barely any noticeable difference.

dominik stritt does the 007ta black forest i believe is what youd want


----------



## mulveling

In 100's of tubes and dozens of tube components, I've yet to encounter a tube roll that didn't yield SOME kind of interesting sonic difference. Including many instance of "tube rolling that slot won't make much difference" (like follower / output slots). So I'm skeptical whenever that's asserted. That said, I didn't try rolling 6S4A when I had a KGST. It's possible 2 of the same tube may have different brand labels (very common). Are there any notable construction differences between the USA brands of this type? I guess it's also possible late production USA Sylvania / Philips ECG / GE / RCA were converging into a very similar "quality".


----------



## KDS315

lostrockets said:


> dominik stritt does the 007ta black forest i believe is what youd want


I know Dominik well, he did my T1m4 (ECC99/CCS) mod and I picked it up at his house...


----------



## droido256

Question. What are the meaningful differences between the L-300 and L-700 physically. Besides that star brace on the L-700. To my naked (and no doubt amateur) eye. I don’t really see much difference. What is my curious eye missing. Yes to the ear overall the L-700 is better. A lot better  But what makes it , 1300$ better. Just my curiosity. Both are jeez crazy in difference to the planars and high end dynamics. Given there’s no voice coil, and both look like the drivers are the same size, what does comparing electrostatic to electrostatic entail?


----------



## SolarCetacean (Jun 18, 2022)

droido256 said:


> Question. What are the meaningful differences between the L-300 and L-700 physically. Besides that star brace on the L-700. To my naked (and no doubt amateur) eye. I don’t really see much difference. What is my curious eye missing. Yes to the ear overall the L-700 is better. A lot better  But what makes it , 1300$ better. Just my curiosity. Both are jeez crazy in difference to the planars and high end dynamics. Given there’s no voice coil, and both look like the drivers are the same size, what does comparing electrostatic to electrostatic entail?


The biggest difference would probably be the earpads. The earpads are a lot thicker on the L700 vs the L300. Earpads have a very significant effect on the sound of a headphone, and my experience is that electrostatic headphones are even more sensitive to earpad changes than non-electrostatic ones. One common mod is to place L700 earpads on the L300, which some people prefer over either the L300 or L700.

The star brace on the L700 looks to be part of the driver design (electrodes maybe?). Electrostatic drivers are differentiated by a bunch of factors, like diaphragm thickness, stator/electrode design and placement, and a bunch of other things that more knowledgeable people will fill in.

A third aspect of the L700 design is its increased physical durability of the non-driver portions. A common failure point on the L300 is the headband arc snapping (especially if L700 pads are mounted on it). The L700 (particularly the mk2 version) uses more durable components. The L300 uses synthetic leather for its earpads while parts of the L700 earpads use real leather, which adds to the cost.


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## CT007 (Jun 18, 2022)

SolarCetacean said:


> the L700 earpads use real leather, which adds to the cost


$150(used to be $130 recently) to be precise. Used them on my L300, and never the stock pads. Essential.
https://staxaudio.com/earpad/stax-ep-l700-earpad


----------



## zolkis

SolarCetacean said:


> The biggest difference would probably be the earpads. The earpads are a lot thicker on the L700 vs the L300. Earpads have a very significant effect on the sound of a headphone, and my experience is that electrostatic headphones are even more sensitive to earpad changes than non-electrostatic ones. One common mod is to place L700 earpads on the L300, which some people prefer over either the L300 or L700.



I agree. I prefer circular drivers with shallow pads with large opening (SR-X Mk3/Pro, Gamma Pro, 007, 009, Phenomenon Libratum), but in the case of Lambda the thicker pads may work better. The large rectangular drivers create some more diffuse sound stage, and all Lambdas are a little bit harder sounding than say a 007 Mk1, or Mk2.

Sometimes the housing may cause too much interference, too. The Stax 009 is a clear example of that, e.g. the front metallic grill acting like a lot of secondary sound sources, creating a harder sound with more high frequency hash. When I listened to @thinker 's modded 009s, they seems a lot calmer and far more musical than they were before. In fact, I think it's one of the very best headphones in existence - keeping the 4K presence bump, but enveloped in a transparent and relaxed musicality it simply didn't have before. Good tube amps help that a lot. 

Another example that comes to mind that people report the 007 Mk1 drivers sound better in the SR-Omega housing, somewhat comparable to the original. I never heard such a mullet, but I can relate to the plausibility of these statements.


----------



## ardbeg1975

Just got back from CanJam Chicago day 1. Listened to the T2 and the Aeras. The Aeras was excellent, especially for a compact desktop footprint, but after hearing the T2, my ears are now ruined regarding all other energizers. The bass and overall drive of the T2 was addictive.


----------



## CT007 (Jun 18, 2022)

ardbeg1975 said:


> T2 and the Aeras


Eksonic's T2? What is the price on it? I know Aeras is $7K, quite a lot more than a KGSSHV($2750), or even Carbon($5400).

How do you feel KGSSHV compares to T2 and Aeras?


----------



## BassicScience

CT007 said:


> Eksonic's T2? What is the price on it? I know Aeras is $7K, quite a lot more than a KGSSHV($2750), or even Carbon($5400).
> 
> How do you feel KGSSHV compares to T2 and Aeras?


I corresponded earlier with Kerry regarding pricing. The Eksonic T2 is $13k in chrome, $14k in black chrome.


----------



## ardbeg1975

BassicScience said:


> I corresponded earlier with Kerry regarding pricing. The Eksonic T2 is $13k in chrome, $14k in black chrome.


Correct.


----------



## ardbeg1975 (Jun 18, 2022)

CT007 said:


> Eksonic's T2? What is the price on it? I know Aeras is $7K, quite a lot more than a KGSSHV($2750), or even Carbon($5400).
> 
> How do you feel KGSSHV compares to T2 and Aeras?


I think the KGSSHV (non-Carbon) drives harder than the Aeras but the KG it is a bigger physical footprint and obviously has a SS versus tube sound signature. Haven’t heard a Carbon. I actually liked the Aeras more than the Blue Hawaii which I felt was more mid forward while both Eksonics had more bass and were less mid forward which is to my preference. The LTA Z10e was also very nice with less bass than the Eksonics but great sense of space. Again, the T2 bested everything else by a wide margin.


----------



## mulveling

ardbeg1975 said:


> I think the KGSSHV (non-Carbon) drives harder than the Aeras but the KG it is a bigger physical footprint and obviously has a SS versus tube sound signature. Haven’t heard a Carbon. I actually liked the Aeras more than the Blue Hawaii which I felt was more mid forward while both Eksonics had more bass and were less mid forward which is to my preference. The LTA Z10e was also very nice with less bass than the Eksonics but great sense of space. Again, the T2 bested everything else by a wide margin.


It’s kind of crazy how a $14K T2 isn’t subject to “diminishing returns”, isn’t it?


----------



## ardbeg1975 (Jun 18, 2022)

Well, you can definitely hear the sonic upgrade moving to the T2 but whether it is worth ~$7K more is a fine question.


----------



## SolarCetacean

How long is the wait time for the Aeras? I presume these are more or less made to order.


----------



## CT007 (Jun 19, 2022)

SolarCetacean said:


> How long is the wait time for the Aeras? I presume these are more or less made to order.


2 months / 8 weeks.

Though, Schiit says 6-8 weeks for Gungnir, yet here I am still waiting, ~13+ weeks in.


----------



## CT007 (Jun 19, 2022)

ardbeg1975 said:


> I think the KGSSHV (non-Carbon)


To be clear, _is_ there such thing as a KGSSHV Carbon? Other than the knock-off by MyHeadFi, the only place I've seen one. I haven't seen such an amp at Mjolnir's site.


----------



## Mach3

lostrockets said:


> how come youre getting vesper instead of stock replacements?


The lambskin they use is softer than stock one. At least that true in my case


----------



## bigjako (Jun 20, 2022)

lostrockets said:


> how come youre getting vesper instead of stock replacements?


Price and reviews.  Plus I want to try the hybrid pads, which supposedly tame the top end.  I’m going for  two alcantara hybrids (one for the 007 and another for the 300LE, in addition to their “closest to stock” brown leather 007 pad.

Prices were reasonable, I got three pads and a headband for less than $300.


----------



## oneguy

CT007 said:


> To be clear, _is_ there such thing as a KGSSHV Carbon? Other than the knock-off by MyHeadFi, the only place I've seen one. I haven't seen such an amp at Mjolnir's site.


Yep, had one made for me by @soren_brix. He also made my KGGG.


----------



## ardbeg1975

CT007 said:


> To be clear, _is_ there such thing as a KGSSHV Carbon? Other than the knock-off by MyHeadFi, the only place I've seen one. I haven't seen such an amp at Mjolnir's site.


I see the term KGSSHV Carbon used on occasion but you are correct.


----------



## Trance_Gott

oneguy said:


> Yep, had one made for me by @soren_brix. He also made my KGGG.


And very recommended!


----------



## CT007 (Jun 19, 2022)

Is there a listing page somewhere, of all available energizers out there for common Stax/Pro Bias?

Let's see... I know of:

*Mjolnir *(Carbon CC, Carbon, KGST, KGSSHV, Octave II, Stax rebuilds)
*HeadAmp *(Blue Hawaii, Aristaeus)
*Stax *(252s, D10, D50, 353/353X, 006s/t, 007s/t, T2, T8000, 500t, 717, 400s, 727, 007tII, 727II, etc...)
*Eksonic *(Aeras, T2)
*iFi *(iESL)
*Audiovalve *(Solaris, Luminare)
*HiFiMaN *(Shang, Shang Jr, Jade II)
*Koss *(E/90)
*Woo *(3ES, WES, ES8)
*Bottlehead *(Stat)
*Cavalli *(Liquid Lightning 2 - seems long out of production)
"KGSSHV Mini" also seems to be a fake/knock-off product(from MyHeadFi), after a quick search. My friend has one of these :\


----------



## lsantista (Jun 19, 2022)

I would try hifishark. Edit: ops clearly I read your question as you were looking for available listings on whatever classfieds. you can add MSB Select Headphone Amplifier to the list. Ive seen others (namely I remember Eddie Current's) but not available anymore. Also High-Amp energizers. 
I never heard or seen any of them, nor can speak of their qualities and design differences, of course Im just trying to remember different names to add to your list.


----------



## Aspirant Audiophile

CT007 said:


> Is there a listing page somewhere, of all available energizers out there for common Stax/Pro Bias?
> 
> Let's see... I know of:
> 
> ...


Piggybacking on this, what would be VERY interesting would be a list of all the builders, not just businesse with their own websites. 

It took me over a month of daily searching for a builder, and although I learned a ton along the way, I'd imagine builders wouldn't mind if potential clients have a more direct route of knowing they exist. I had a number of misfires, nearly got scammed a couple times, and I was super close to giving up and buying a Stax amp, which would have been a mistake imo. 

Now, fingers crossed that Soren's amps wind up being what I'm confident they will be--very good and superior to a conventional Stax amp. But making a simple shareable Google spreadsheet with builder names, reputation etc would seem to benefit everyone. 

Feel free to correct me with impunity


----------



## BenF

CT007 said:


> $150(used to be $130 recently) to be precise. Used them on my L300, and never the stock pads. Essential.
> https://staxaudio.com/earpad/stax-ep-l700-earpad


L700 pads on L300 greatly improve the bass, but make it sound much warmer, quite veiled.
L500 pads on L300 are a much better combo - bass is as good as with L700 pads, but clarity/transparency is now much closer to the original L300. 
Basically, this is now L500 at a much lower cost.


----------



## KDS315

CT007 said:


> Is there a listing page somewhere, of all available energizers out there for common Stax/Pro Bias?
> 
> Let's see... I know of:
> 
> ...


- PALTAUF ESD
- High-amp.de : SIRIUS, ELEKTRA, ALPHA CENTAURI, ANTARES, SIRRAH


----------



## lsantista

lostrockets said:


> anyone have the 007t mod with CCS/6s4a? if so - was wondering if you've tried changing the tubes and what the effect on sound was, if any...
> 
> havent really been able to find much info on tube sound characteristics in this amp. though my tube rolling days are past me, i would make an effort to get a few different brands if it makes a difference. if not ill just get a bunch of the same type


Ive the same amp and curiosity, there is some RCA 6s4a's for sale in my country (pictured) but I believe the quartet sitting in my amp has still good running time, specially since I dont use the amp that much.


----------



## ardbeg1975

CT007 said:


> Is there a listing page somewhere, of all available energizers out there for common Stax/Pro Bias?
> 
> Let's see... I know of:
> 
> ...


Linear Tube Audio Z10e


----------



## ufospls2

CT007 said:


> To be clear, _is_ there such thing as a KGSSHV Carbon? Other than the knock-off by MyHeadFi, the only place I've seen one. I haven't seen such an amp at Mjolnir's site.


To quote from KG earlier in the thread. So yes, the KGSSHV Carbon is a thing. The Carbon made by Spritzer/Birgir has his own designs changes and modifcations vs the DIY version of the KGSSHV Carbon. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-1490#post-16966787
"
_*the kgsshv-carbon is my design. started with the kgsshv, turned the 3rd and 4th stages into a single silicon carbide jfet high power output stage with cascode current source drive. hence the carbon label. the circlotron also uses the same silicon carbide jfet, and both amps can easily run 25+ma output stage current. with suitably large power supplies. many people had their hands in the grhv power supply including birgir,kerry,justin and jiml. and possibly others that i forgot about.

birgir makes all his own boards, and has made changes to parts and design elements. in addition the CC uses single strand pure silver wire hand stuffed in teflon tubing.
the hand stuffed silver wire is beyond my insanity limit.

birgir, justin,kerry, joamat and now dukei all do their own board layouts. and all of them are making modifications, sometimes extreme modifications. all of these things are of the highest quality, pick your poison.

on the other hand a couple of companies like jr audio and felista do some really evil things with obviously predicitable results. stay away from any boards on ebay that have the silkscreen layer modified into R# and C#. all the real gerbers are available and jlcpcb does a great job of making boards, delivering in a week, and at pricing that no one else seems to want to compete with.

and for the couple of amps out there with 1500uf juice can power caps, stay very far away from them.*_

"


----------



## lostrockets

bigjako said:


> Price and reviews.  Plus I want to try the hybrid pads, which supposedly tame the top end.  I’m going from  two alcantara hybrids (one for the 007 and another for the 300LE, in addition to their “closest to stock” brown leather 007 pad.
> 
> Prices were reasonable, I got three pads and a headband for less than $300.


thanks for the info! i may do the same for my 007s


----------



## CT007

ufospls2 said:


> So yes, the KGSSHV Carbon is a thing. The Carbon made by Spritzer/Birgir has his own designs changes and modifcations vs the DIY version of the KGSSHV Carbon.


So Mjolnir's "Carbon" and "Carbon CC" are short names for KGSSHV Carbon, KGSSHV Carbon CC?


----------



## HiFiGuy94

CT007 said:


> So Mjolnir's "Carbon" and "Carbon CC" are short names for KGSSHV Carbon, KGSSHV Carbon CC?


Yep.


----------



## thinker (Jun 20, 2022)

009 with 007mk2 drivers inside🧐
Looks good and sound is like original 007mk2 but much cleaner with bigger soundstage and very musical, this is another contender as the best electrostatic headphone.


----------



## oneguy

thinker said:


> 009 with 007mk2 drivers inside🧐
> Looks good and sound is like original 007mk2 but much cleaner with bigger soundstage and very musical, this is another contender as the best electrostatic headphone.


Heretic! Witchcraft! What manner of sorcery is this?!


----------



## CT007

thinker said:


> 009 with 007mk2 drivers


Cost lol? It's 007 MK2 or CRBN for me, unless this is an option, too.


----------



## hifixman

Just find this amazing review of tubes

https://wallofsound.ca/audioreviews...-with-tubes-supplied-by-www-thetubestore-com/

I was wondering if anyone has experience of rolling tubes of T2? While I love the clarity, control, and ease of PSVANE UK EK34, I do miss the slam and god send bass from Mullard and NOS which then sounds a bit muffled lacking control compared to the EK34.


----------



## thinker (Jun 21, 2022)

I have to rethink how good the driver of 007mk2 actually is, the driver sounds so much better when installed in 009 case. I had to take some other parts from 009, rubber rings etc to make a tight fit for the driver to reduce resonances. I was not expecting much but i'm now blown away what i hear.

The new 009/7 is much better than original 009 and 007. I think the original 007 case ruined the potential of the 007 driver, actually it's sounds muffled.

The new 009/7 has deep bass and the highs are on par with 009 but smoooth. The midrange appears wider/ open against 007 and the 3D imaging is incredible. The new is very detailed like 009 and airy , very lifelike natural. The 009/7 sounds like a new stax headphone maybe brother to X9K


----------



## Reima

hifixman said:


> Just find this amazing review of tubes
> 
> https://wallofsound.ca/audioreviews...-with-tubes-supplied-by-www-thetubestore-com/
> 
> I was wondering if anyone has experience of rolling tubes of T2? While I love the clarity, control, and ease of PSVANE UK EK34, I do miss the slam and god send bass from Mullard and NOS which then sounds a bit muffled lacking control compared to the EK34.


The link does not work for me.


----------



## genefruit

Reima said:


> The link does not work for me.


try it again - didn't work for me earlier as well but is working now.


----------



## dynavit

Very interesting combination, your 007/009. 
Is the change reversibel?
How about other way round, puting the 009 drivers into the 007 case?
Thanks for your impressions


----------



## mulveling (Jun 21, 2022)

hifixman said:


> Just find this amazing review of tubes
> 
> https://wallofsound.ca/audioreviews...-with-tubes-supplied-by-www-thetubestore-com/
> 
> I was wondering if anyone has experience of rolling tubes of T2? While I love the clarity, control, and ease of PSVANE UK EK34, I do miss the slam and god send bass from Mullard and NOS which then sounds a bit muffled lacking control compared to the EK34.


He doesn't even mention which "NOS Holy Grail USA" tubes he didn't like.
The T2 with literally any working EL34 tube will still significantly outclass other amps with holy grail tubes. So you don't have to tube roll to fix or enhance anything. I used Russian Mullard and Amperex / Holland EL34. Both mind blowingly good.


----------



## thinker

dynavit said:


> Very interesting combination, your 007/009.
> Is the change reversibel?
> How about other way round, puting the 009 drivers into the 007 case?
> Thanks for your impressions


yes it is reversible, takes about 1 hour to switch back. It would be interesting to see measurements on this, to my ears it sounds very balanced. This headphone has everything on it from bass to highs. The sound is effortless (sweet/ lovely) it has also foot tapping speed. Soundstage is right, the players are not too far away like X9K

Excellent positioning and right tone of instruments and at the same time airy. Quite different than stock 007 wich sounds darkish in comparison and 009 bright in comparison.
The sound is meaty, it has weight, the music seems to flow. No way i will ever switch back to 009 and 007, this is a permanent change.


----------



## HifiXMen

thinker said:


> I have to rethink how good the driver of 007mk2 actually is, the driver sounds so much better when installed in 009 case. I had to take some other parts from 009, rubber rings etc to make a tight fit for the driver to reduce resonances. I was not expecting much but i'm now blown away what i hear.
> 
> The new 009/7 is much better than original 009 and 007. I think the original 007 case ruined the potential of the 007 driver, actually it's sounds muffled.
> 
> The new 009/7 has deep bass and the highs are on par with 009 but smoooth. The midrange appears wider/ open against 007 and the 3D imaging is incredible. The new is very detailed like 009 and airy , very lifelike natural. The 009/7 sounds like a new stax headphone maybe brother to X9K


That is exactly what I am thinking, The first thing to rebuild 007 into a more modern sound estat is to change the whole case, the original case and earpad mounting structure are really really bad design.


----------



## thinker

HifiXMen said:


> That is exactly what I am thinking, The first thing to rebuild 007 into a more modern sound estat is to change the whole case, the original case and earpad mounting structure are really really bad design.


Zolkis is going to measure 009/7 at some point in time maybe in next 1-2 weeks he will report back


----------



## urs

HifiXMen said:


> The first thing to rebuild 007 into a more modern sound estat is to change the whole case, the original case and earpad mounting structure are really really bad design.



Interesting: 
For me,  the 007 was and still is the *most optimal STAX in terms of fitting & handling: *
The rotating pads, and _lack of swivels_, or such, make the 007 my preferred E-Stat-HP, when I need to put it on or take it off quickly e.g.  for my “editing” work.

What is regarded as the “muffled” sound – sorry, my lack of better wording: the 007 just doesn’t present this extra treble, shine & transparency – is my specific choice for Digital sources and/or my work with Shellac recordings…*1)*

Regards
Urs



*1) *For real _“High-End-Listening & Enjoyment”_, I’ll always preferred the 009(S) or now the “X” any time without any question.


----------



## Zoide

Is it normal for the KGSS Klassik case to get *very* hot after listening to the L700 at moderate volumes for about one hour?

It's not like it's about to burn up (I can lay my hand on it pretty much indefinitely), but I'm pretty sure my SRM-323S got that hot.

Thanks


----------



## mulveling (Jun 21, 2022)

Zoide said:


> Is it normal for the KGSS Klassik case to get *very* hot after listening to the L700 at moderate volumes for about one hour?
> 
> It's not like it's about to burn up (I can lay my hand on it pretty much indefinitely), but I'm pretty sure my SRM-323S got that hot.


If you can lay your hand on it indefinitely, that's NOT hot by our standards. All the good electrostatic amps are gonna throw out some heat, ranging from "toasty warm" to slowly-fry-an-egg hot. There's no way around it, with those high voltage rails (+/- 300V and more) and running in class A - meaning it's at maximum dissipation all the time, even at idle. Get a Kill-a-Watt and watch its absolute rock steady power draw under all conditions. And almost all of that is coming back out as heat. Hot and reliable, like your Mjolnir, is waaaaaay better than cool and unreliable.

How does it sound to you?? I would imagine that should be a huge improvement in detail, dynamics and grip over the 323.


----------



## Zoide (Jun 21, 2022)

mulveling said:


> If you can lay your hand on it indefinitely, that's NOT hot by our standards. All the good electrostatic amps are gonna throw out some heat, ranging from "toasty warm" to slowly-fry-an-egg hot. There's no way around it, with those high voltage rails (+/- 300V and more) and running in class A - meaning it's at maximum dissipation all the time, even at idle. Get a Kill-a-Watt and watch its absolute rock steady power draw under all conditions. And almost all of that is coming back out as heat. Hot and reliable, like your Mjolnir, is waaaaaay better than cool and unreliable.
> 
> How does it sound to you?? I would imagine that should be a huge improvement in detail, dynamics and grip over the 323.


Thanks, it's good to know that there's nothing wrong with the amp. 
I just hope it doesn't draw too much more power though, since the warm weather is coming and also energy prices are going through the roof here in Europe thanks to Putin's war.

It looks and sounds great, but I haven't had much time for comparisons and I don't have a way to A/B quickly between the amps because I need to swap power cables and interconnects each time. It's very hard to remember the differences "from memory", plus I don't expect that much of a difference with the L700 and my moderate listening levels. I mostly bought the KGSS for use with the Hive X I have on the way, which is said to require a beefier amp.

The other thing is that my DAC only has RCA outs and the PC introduces a bit of noise via the USB power (depends on the CPU usage, etc.). With the 323S, that's not a problem because I can connect a cable between the DAC's ground and the amp's ground. But with the KGSS there is no ground post/knob I can connect it to. So the KGSS is at a noise disadvantage.


----------



## SolarCetacean

Zoide said:


> The other thing is that my DAC only has RCA outs and the PC introduces a bit of noise via the USB power (depends on the CPU usage, etc.). With the 323S, that's not a problem because I can connect a cable between the DAC's ground and the amp's ground. But with the KGSS there is no ground post/knob I can connect it to. So the KGSS is at a noise disadvantage.


Do you have a separate power strip or electrical outlet that you can use for your PC? I had that same issue on a Stax amp when I had an unbalanced DAC (with an ungrounded power supply) and a noisy USB connection from the PC. I could work around it by connecting my PC to a separate power strip on a different outlet. Not quite sure why that worked, as sharing a ground should be better, but it got rid of the PC-dependent squealing. There was still a ground loop hum at higher positions on the knob though, and I only got rid of that when I bought a DAC with XLR outputs.


----------



## KDS315 (Jun 22, 2022)

Zoide, if your amp draws 300Watts and you let it run 10hours per day (!!) that makes 3kWatthours which sets you back about ONE EURO then….


----------



## Zoide

SolarCetacean said:


> Do you have a separate power strip or electrical outlet that you can use for your PC? I had that same issue on a Stax amp when I had an unbalanced DAC (with an ungrounded power supply) and a noisy USB connection from the PC. I could work around it by connecting my PC to a separate power strip on a different outlet. Not quite sure why that worked, as sharing a ground should be better, but it got rid of the PC-dependent squealing. There was still a ground loop hum at higher positions on the knob though, and I only got rid of that when I bought a DAC with XLR outputs.



Thanks, I'd tried a separate outlet before, but it didn't help. I think I'll eventually have to bite the bullet and buy a nicer DAC with balanced outputs. I've got my sights placed on the SMSL DO100.



KDS315 said:


> Zoide, if your amp draws 300Watts and you let it run 10hours per day (!!) that makes 3kWatthours which sets you back about ONE EURO then….


Hahaha you're right... I just measured the KGSS with a smart plug (Tapo P110), and it draws 38 Watts. At ~€0.4 / kWh, using it 4 hours a day every day is less than €2 a month.

A bigger concern will be once the summer gets really hot! The thing is quite a space heater.


----------



## KDS315

"SPACE HEATER" at max. 38Watts dissipation...you must be joking, right??


----------



## Zoide

KDS315 said:


> "SPACE HEATER" at max. 38Watts dissipation...you must be joking, right??


I mean, you can really feel the heat it emits if you put your hand on it. It's not really an issue right now, but when the weather gets to 35 degrees every little bit will help...


----------



## KDS315

Wait until you have a KGSSHV CARBON or BHSE running in your room, THEN you have "room heating" :LOL:


----------



## thinker (Jun 22, 2022)

dynavit said:


> Very interesting combination, your 007/009.
> Is the change reversibel?
> How about other way round, puting the 009 drivers into the 007 case?
> Thanks for your impressions


Here it is, looks cool 007/9, you have to be some crazy headphone artist to make this happen, sound is excellent better than stock 009, sounds slightly darker with lot of air, i think many people would like this


----------



## oneguy

So the 009/7 still sounds better than the 007/9?


----------



## thinker (Jun 22, 2022)

oneguy said:


> So the 009/7 still sounds better than the 007/9?


yes, i think 007 driver is the best Stax driver ever done, by switching drivers you learn the sound of them. The 009 driver is not as natural as 007 nor is the new X9K driver.

The 009 driver has synthetic flavor on it the same with X9K but less so. The 009/7 is by far the the most natural sound i have heard from any headphone.
The 009/7 does everything, excellent bass, mids are phenomenal, and highs just right, the overall sound is relaxed, i can listen hours with it. This phone has also the ability to produce "real" 3d imaging.


----------



## thinker (Jun 23, 2022)

Stax portrait for people who like to collect pictures. Stax SR-009/7  and   Stax SR-007/9


----------



## protoss

thinker said:


> natural as 007


Agree. The 007 are the most natural-sounding. Everything else sounds metallic and stale. Stax should have concentrated more on the 007 upgrades than releasing an upgraded 009, aka x9000


----------



## thinker (Jun 23, 2022)

Like to add here that the 007/9 has more weight and musicality against 009. Have removed the metal grille inside (problem nr.1 makes bright) and use 007 pads with it, so there is plenty of space for ears and it's safe to use.

The 009 driver this way sounds much more musical and slightly darker relaxed sweeter.

Still the 009/7 is grander in tone more real life realistic tone with wider in L-R imaging but sounds slightly narrower than 007/9.


----------



## thinker

Just for fun listening:

First video Stax       SR-009/7   
Second video Stax  SR-007/9


----------



## musicman59

thinker said:


> Stax portrait for people who like to collect pictures. Stax SR-009/7  and   Stax SR-007/9


Love the looks of the SR-007/9!


----------



## HiFiGuy94

Annnnnnnnnnd my new Tiny Triode from Mjolnir Audio arrived today. First time listening to the STAX SR-L700 MK2's and this Energizer in general.
I don't have much to compare this Earspeaker/set up to apart from some cheap Beyer DT 770 Pro's. Compared to them this earspeaker sounds more refined/clear/revealing as expected in this price bracket. The soundstage is a lot bigger. The songs i've listened to sound airy and spacious and is a more laid back presentation and relaxing in general, with the voices seeming more forward. And the Earspeakers appear to have more attack in changing from instrument to instrument in the songs i've listened too. I don't know a lot of audio language very well so hopefully my description will suffice. The only nit-pick i can make is that i wish the volume on this thing got a little louder, but i've always liked my headphones pretty loud. Apart from that though this set up is excellent imo.


----------



## thinker

musicman59 said:


> Love the looks of the SR-007/9!


The SR-007/9 has tight deep bass wich you don't hear from 009. This headphone would sell like hot cakes if released from Stax


----------



## zolkis

I don't get what's the Stax name stands for in this, but here you go:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/edifier-stax-spirit-s3.963490/


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## SolarCetacean

zolkis said:


> I don't get what's the Stax name stands for in this, but here you go:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/edifier-stax-spirit-s3.963490/


I look at it like Samsung's "Tuned by AKG" thing they put on all of their Galaxy Buds. Edifier owns Stax (and a large stake in Audeze, where the tech for the S3 comes from), just like how Samsung owns AKG (and Harman Kardon, and JBL, and Mark Levinson). I'm guessing they took Audeze's tech (the headphone was originally an Audeze design that never went to market), had a guy from Stax listen to it and give his approval of the tuning, and then put the Stax name on it. I've heard that there's an EQ preset in the app that changes the tuning to be more Stax-like, since the default tuning looks good, but not like a Stax.

I don't necessarily mind this practice, and I think having high-end companies give tuning and consulting services to mass-market companies is a good thing for the audio industry. And I think giving Stax a lower-end, non-estat presence in the market isn't that bad of an idea, given the way the wider market is moving. IIRC, either Martin Logan or Magnepan, one of those estat speaker manufacturers, has non-estat speakers in their entry-level offerings that are supposed to be tuned reminiscent of their estat models and serve as a taste or teaser of the experience one gets from their high-end electrostatic speakers.


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## mulveling

Stax needed financial stability & security, which Edifier seems to provide. The Spirit model looks cute and is not gonna confuse any of us electrostat enthusiasts. I don't see a problem here, as long as Stax remains largely autonomous in designing "real" Stax gear. Of course as soon as that changes, Edifier will become the devil in our eyes


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## thinker (Jun 25, 2022)

The 007/9 is incredible with tube amps, a mixture of 009 and 007, details and transparency of 009 and meatyness and warmth of 007 . The sound is very clean and warm, this is my dream phone.


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## CT007 (Jun 25, 2022)

Zoide said:


> Is it normal for the KGSS Klassik case to get *very* hot after listening to the L700 at moderate volumes for about one hour?


I hit 125F normally with my Burson 3XP + 3A Supercharger, which absolutely feels *very *hot lol. (but apparently is OK/normal)


----------



## Zoide

CT007 said:


> I hit 125C normally with my Burson 3XP + 3A Supercharger, which absolutely feels *very *hot lol. (but apparently is OK/normal)


Wait, you said 125 C but the photo shows 123.2 F, which is like 50 C 🤔


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## CT007

Zoide said:


> Wait, you said 125 C but the photo shows 123.2 F, which is like 50 C 🤔


Oh wait, my bad LOL. Got computers on the mind, apparently...


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## KDS315 (Jun 25, 2022)

50C is completely normal for a tubs based amp - but for a transistor like thd KGSS it is rather hot.


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## DougD

HiFiGuy94 said:


> Annnnnnnnnnd my new Tiny Triode from Mjolnir Audio arrived today.



The what ???


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## thinker (Jun 25, 2022)

Hopefully we get tomorrow measured Stax phones 007/9 and 009/7 . I think at least we get from 007/9 (@trance gott approved bass) . This phone makes me wonder how much bass potentiality is hidden in X9K wich has much larger driver.

If measurements are good a handy DIY guy should sign up to make few 007/9 for those who are interested. Precision tools are needed because you have to drill some holes and other adjustments to decrease resonances etc. Hopefully the DIY guy practises some ZEN meditation, a wrong move can cost you in a instant second thousands of dollars.


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## lsantista

Amazed by this report @thinker , was just about to sell my 007A, now Im interested  in getting a used 009.. if someone can make the fusion for me. Actually, since my 007A is in Brazil Im still better selling it and maybe latter when someone is doing this double-cross mod..
and the 007 and 007mkII share exactly the same driver, right?


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## HiFiGuy94

DougD said:


> The what ???


It's one of the tube energisers Mjolnir Audio use to sell. I happend to get the last one.


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## zolkis (Jun 26, 2022)

thinker said:


> Hopefully we get tomorrow measured Stax phones 007/9 and 009/7 .



These are approximative non-scientific REW measurements with miniDSP rig, e.g. my HD650 measurements look exactly like Tyll Hertsen's - but that's just anecdotal precision .

Note that he measurements for @thinker 's Stax 007 mk2 drivers in the 009 housing are not here since I had a coupling issue with my rig, and the measurements didn't quite validate well. But take a look at the Libratum 3 measurements below, they were near identical. Also sound-wise they were very similar, large sound stage, relaxed sound, very musical, one can listen the whole day to them. Even the slight 7K notch was the same - which might be due to coupling resonances with my rig, so these plots are not to be confused with the truth , but I could hear the slight reservedness or politeness of the sound in that area. However, that also means the sound has no hint of being honky or hard or harsh, ever.

FR of the Stax 009 drivers in 007 Mk2 housing and pads, no front grills, no dust screen. Soundstage is like nearfield, a bit closer to the ear, lively, expressive, not bright, a near-perfect monitor experience. You can see the FR is not much different from the stock 009 from below, but boy it sounds different indeed. I can hear it's the same driver, but in a much better presentation, no treble hash/fatigue, perhaps a bit forward in the mids but in a nice BBC monitor way. However, I don't know if the 007 housing is the best for the 009 drivers - I would think a bigger wooden enclosure might be even better.

FR


CSD.
Below you can see some slight hash in the upper frequencies, contributes to the perceived forwardness of the sound, but blends well.


Spectrogram (forgive the hash in the left, my measurement error).
This is best when uniform - you can see very few and only slight disruptions. A nice, coherent sound. A bit of forwardness around 500 Hz which might disappear with different pads.


Distortion. No problems here.


Comparison below between my modded 007 Mk1 (yellow), 009 (red) and the "009 drivers in 007 housing" (turquoise). Despite the nearly identical measurements, they sound pretty different.


Comparison below of my stock Stax 009 (red), Phenomenon Libratum 3 with my pads (green) and Focal Utopia (blue), levels set apart for less overlapping.
Despite the similar FR, they sounded quite different again. IMHO the spectrogram gives most intuitive picture about their sound.
You might think the Libratum might sound bright, but not the slightest way - actually the Utopia somehow sounds brighter or harder than both the 009 and Libratum, but that might depend on the amplification as well. Anyway, the Utopia is among the best measuring headphones ever, and that's a good starting point.
My personal favorite remains the Libratum 3 with my pads, but the 007 mk2 drivers in the 009 housing are nearly the same experience, some might like them even more. They both love tube amps, but sounded excellent from the Sirius amp, too.



What I would be really interested in are the 007 *Mk1* drivers in the 009 or SR-Omega housing. .
Thanks @thinker for these experiments.

A repeated conclusion of mine is that don't overestimate the importance of measurements. One can hear far more differences with a trained ear than with measurements. However, the latter should be good enough - good measurements are a necessary, but not sufficient condition. Sounding good is also a necessary, but not sufficient condition , but better compromise than the former (looking at you, Stax 009  ).


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## protoss

zolkis said:


> 007 *Mk1* drivers in the 009 or SR-Omega housing.


The 007Mk1 in the Omega shell is one of the best sounding headphones. If I remember correctly Spritzer favorite headphone is the 007Mk1 in the Omega shell. 
Its crazy that the 007Mk1, Mk1 in the Omega shell and 007A are just amazing Staxs Estats. 

Hopefully, Staxs releases a 007Mk3 or a X7000 or a spiritual successor to the MK1


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## zomkung

protoss said:


> The 007Mk1 in the Omega shell is one of the best sounding headphones. If I remember correctly Spritzer favorite headphone is the 007Mk1 in the Omega shell.
> Its crazy that the 007Mk1, Mk1 in the Omega shell and 007A are just amazing Staxs Estats.
> 
> Hopefully, Staxs releases a 007Mk3 or a X7000 or a spiritual successor to the MK1




Thinking if I can do MK1 driver in es1a housing. 

I have some spare drivers of MK1, maybe could ask es1alab to make this.


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## number1sixerfan

zomkung said:


> Thinking if I can do MK1 driver in es1a housing.
> 
> I have some spare drivers of MK1, maybe could ask es1alab to make this.



I'm assuming you've heard both? The es-1a is pretty dark in it's own right. Would be a bit worried about the sound being too dark with the combination, but not sure if it's mainly the drivers or how much the housing affects this. 

--------

I think I would be more open to DIY mashups if I had backup pairs lying around. I really enjoy how distinct the 009, 007 and x9000 all are from one another, although that also contributes to the polarizing nature of the conversations on here lol. In any event, it's cool to see the customizations.


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## zolkis

Apart from the setup possibilities, the housing provides the back and front metallic grills, which might have different air resistance, hence tuning, than the original housing. 
The 007 Mk1 and Mk2 tunings are pretty difficult to improve IMHO to strike a better balance, but they might both benefit from a little less air resistance in the back. Might sound "more free" (less constricted), especially in highs and mids, but deep bass response might suffer - as with all grill changes, and front opening size changes. These changes work better with larger drivers (e.g. 009) since they have more headroom, but depends on the drivers. One needs to calculate the driver loading, don't just place drivers opportunistically in various enclosures. Of course, try/experiment is always a method .


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## mulveling (Jun 27, 2022)

number1sixerfan said:


> I'm assuming you've heard both? The es-1a is pretty dark in it's own right. Would be a bit worried about the sound being too dark with the combination, but not sure if it's mainly the drivers or how much the housing affects this.
> 
> --------
> 
> I think I would be more open to DIY mashups if I had backup pairs lying around. I really enjoy how distinct the 009, 007 and x9000 all are from one another, although that also contributes to the polarizing nature of the conversations on here lol. In any event, it's cool to see the customizations.


Did some more listening this weekend to ES-1a and 009 out of my KGSShv. The ES-1a is definitely dark. In fact its darkness is about as annoying as the 009's brightness (i.e. as heard on most amps, excluding T2). The top end overall sounds more recessed/relaxed than 007 Mk I. While the ES is certainly an impressive headphone and quite competitive, I started preferring the 009 in these sessions - brightness and all. The 007 Mk I has a lot of lovely warmth & body in the midrange and bass, but also has some nice energy & sparkle up top.

Stax brightness works different than on other headphones & speakers to my ears - it doesn't cause any discomfort or listening fatigue. So I can tolerate more than usual. I hadn't had a good 009 session in a long time (various reasons). It was great to get re-acquainted with the old friend again


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## thinker

More DIY Staxes on the way, i'm going to finish my work with a closed version of a Lambda signature. It's a mixture of Sigma and normal version and looks really cool, this phone sounds much better than earlier versions , it's relaxed smooth neutral balanced and sounds very open for a closed phone. Maybe end of this week it's done depends how the materials dry.


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## number1sixerfan

mulveling said:


> Did some more listening this weekend to ES-1a and 009 out of my KGSShv. The ES-1a is definitely dark. In fact its darkness is about as annoying as the 009's brightness (i.e. as heard on most amps, excluding T2). The top end overall sounds more recessed/relaxed than 007 Mk I. While the ES is certainly an impressive headphone and quite competitive, I started preferring the 009 in these sessions - brightness and all. The 007 Mk I has a lot of lovely warmth & body in the midrange and bass, but also has some nice energy & sparkle up top.
> 
> Stax brightness works different than on other headphones & speakers to my ears - it doesn't cause any discomfort or listening fatigue. So I can tolerate more than usual. I hadn't had a good 009 session in a long time (various reasons). It was great to get re-acquainted with the old friend again



Yea that was my assessment as well. The ES is clearly a bargain and does a lot very well, I just am not a huge fan of the darker tonality out of the box as is. I prefer the 009 and 007, but again the pricing is very impressive. I'm going to give it more time, but I'll likely put it up for sale for an attractive price.


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## oneguy

I love the energy of the ES-1a and I guess I’m in the camp that doesn’t think it’s too dark. The ES-1a and x9000 are the two best performers in my stable now, hands down.


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## thinker (Jun 29, 2022)

a diy prototype test unit with unfinished case for coming lambda signature closed model, a lot of work is ahead, probably going to use some light durable wood, the looks is like the black unit


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## drifter74 (Jun 30, 2022)

Hi folks,

I'm new to the Stax world. At a local headphone get-together some time ago, I had the opportunity of demoing the SR009 and SR009S together with the WOO Audio WES and it was just magic. My current headphone setup includes the Audeze LCD5, LCD2Fazors, LCD2Closed Back driven by an iFi IDSD Pro and Audeze Deckard. While the Stax does not have the slam and speed of the LCD5, the "air" around instruments is just magical.

Long story short, I set out to finding an affordable Stax system and managed to get a used set of SR009 and a SRM007tII energiser for a decent price from the local Stax agent. The headphones physically are in good condition and while the energiser has a few surface scratches, it was serviced by the agent and functions as intended.

I have a few questions that I will appreciate some advice on:
- On the SR009 there is an arc-like sound in the left driver that comes and goes. The arc sound runs up and down the driver. When I demoed them at the agent I noticed it, pointed it out to the agent and he said it was normal. After about a minute the sound stopped. I have noticed the sound at home as well but it seems to stop after a minute or so after the headphones are plugged into the energiser. I've only done two listening sessions with them since getting them from the agent but both times had the sound shortly after plugging the headphones in. I'm not sure how normal this is and if it a showstopper. The headphones are fine with no volume difference between left and right drivers. The headphones have not been used in quite a time and has been kept at the agent in a box since buying it back from the previous owner, who sadly fell into alcoholism and then had financial troubles. I don't think he looked after the headphones as carefully as he should have.
- When I move my jaw around their is a slight but distinct pop of the drivers. I've read about the electrostatic farting and I assume this is it. I must actively try to get the headphones to do this, normal head movements do not provoke the sound.
- I've read that electrostatic headphones are sensitive to dust. How should I care for them? My other headphones are all on headphone stands in my study. Must the Stax be covered by plastic when placed on a stand when not in use to keep the dust out?
- Is their a correct way to clean the headphones? Can I use low speed on a blower to gently blow over the drivers to remove any dust that may be there from the previous owner's use of them?

Advice will be greatly appreciated.


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## robo24

drifter74 said:


> Must the Stax be covered by plastic when placed on a stand when not in use to keep the dust out?


If you're not going to put it completely away then do use a plastic cover. I got one for $20 on Amazon and it's big enough that I can get mine on my headphone stand with the cover on.


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## mulveling (Jun 30, 2022)

@drifter74

That arcing sound is definitely NOT NORMAL! First order of business it making sure it's the headphone (which sounds likely here) and not the amp. I would go back to the dealer; you absolutely don't want a problem that lingers or worsens over time. I would also be a bit annoyed with the dealer for trying to pull one over like that. We Stax enthusiasts aren't the "Beats" crowd. This stuff matters in the pursuit of sonic perfection.
Yes, the "Stax fart" doesn't actually sound like a fart at all. Whomever came up with that is not human. It is as you describe. That's normal.
It's a very good idea to keep your Stax in plastic when not in use. The Stax headphone stand and optional dust cover look nicer and are convenient to use. A well kept Stax headphone will hardly need cleaning, other than maybe the earpads. The drivers have built-in dust screens on both sides of the drivers, along with metal screens and earpad covers (that one's only on one side), but you don't want to over-rely on that and they are extremely easy to tear if anything gets past the metal screens. DON'T use a blower to clean, because you are likely to do more harm than good here!
I don't know if this helps, but I always unplug Stax headphones from the amp and press the cable pins against the back of my hand when ending a session. It discharges the drivers. You'll usually hear a scratchy thump sound from the drivers when you do this - perfectly safe. Never had a problem with any of my Stax headphones over the years.
Don't go trying, but it should be fairly difficult for a well designed electrostatic amplifier to damage your Stax headphones. Dynamic headphones often have amps that can easily push hundreds of times the power you'd ever conceivable need for listening, and have gobs of surplus gain on tap, so you can have those "Oh S**t" moments when you accidentally play them with the gain waaaay to high for a moment - and then you worry about whether you toasted the driver coils. That's not really easy to make happen with Stax  In fact the more likely scenario is struggling to get enough gain for a good loud listening level with low-output sources - like say a low-MC based vinyl rig.

By the way the typical low-MC based phono stage starts around 60dB of gain, which is also the typical gain for an electrostatic amp - which adds up to 120dB of total gain from stylus tip to stators! That's pretty crazy it works as all, never mind how amazing it can sound.


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## paradoxper (Jun 30, 2022)

drifter74 said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I'm new to the Stax world. At a local headphone get-together some time ago, I had the opportunity of demoing the SR009 and SR009S together with the WOO Audio WES and it was just magic. My current headphone setup includes the Audeze LCD5, LCD2Fazors, LCD2Closed Back driven by an iFi IDSD Pro and Audeze Deckard. While the Stax does not have the slam and speed of the LCD5, the "air" around instruments is just magical.
> 
> ...


Was the arcing present on multiple amps or just the very one you're currently using?

And perhaps to clarify, the sound is reminiscent to this


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## prtuc2 (Jun 30, 2022)

drifter74 said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I'm new to the Stax world. At a local headphone get-together some time ago, I had the opportunity of demoing the SR009 and SR009S together with the WOO Audio WES and it was just magic. My current headphone setup includes the Audeze LCD5, LCD2Fazors, LCD2Closed Back driven by an iFi IDSD Pro and Audeze Deckard. While the Stax does not have the slam and speed of the LCD5, the "air" around instruments is just magical.
> 
> ...


I would advise you place the headphone in between headband and headstrap. I also got a black nylon cover to block out the sun just in case.


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## musicman59

I also use the Woo Audio stand and Stax plastic cover for my SR-009 and not long ago I start using the plastic arch to place them in the stand. Prior I was using the head strap but noticed it started to get stretched out.


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## drifter74 (Jun 30, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> Was the arcing present on multiple amps or just the very one you're currently using?
> 
> And perhaps to clarify, the sound is reminiscent to this



Multiple amps.

Definitely arcing. Obviously not as violent or loud as the Youtube clip you posted. It runs up and down the left driver after powering up the system. I was sitting with the headphones on with no music playing now and it lasted for a good 2 minutes before quieting down. Sounds like a little mouse running around squeaking inside the left ear cup. It seems to be quiet for a bit and then start again and it comes and goes.

If I unplug the cable and touch it with my finger to remove the electrical load it goes quiet. As soon as I plug it in again, the arcing starts.

Is this something I can fix myself (i.e. cleaning) or should I go back to the dealer?


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## oneguy

I’ve been hanging my Stax for years (since 2017) by the head straps and never noticed stretching. Something like the 009s only weighs 583g worst case scenario. That would only place 292g of force on each side of the head strap. That’s 0.64lbs. A more accurate number is about 460g total which is 230g per side or 0.51lbs. That’s not a lot of force. I’d say YMMV as far as head strap stretch goes.


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## catscratch

Sounds like there is dust or some other foreign debris inside the driver. That's what usually causes the squeal. I would definitely take it back to the dealer. Stax have dust covers on them that are usually very good at keeping dust out, but looks like something got in in your case. Kinda shady of the dealer to tell you that it's normal though.


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## mulveling (Jun 30, 2022)

Some of the older headband tension mechanisms, like 404 or 007, can lose grip or stretch out over time. The modern hard-click stop headband like on 009 and L700 isn’t really going to be affected IMO


----------



## paradoxper

drifter74 said:


> Multiple amps.
> 
> Definitely arcing. Obviously not as violent or loud as the Youtube clip you posted. It runs up and down the left driver after powering up the system. I was sitting with the headphones on with no music playing now and it lasted for a good 2 minutes before quieting down. Sounds like a little mouse running around squeaking inside the left ear cup. It seems to be quiet for a bit and then start again and it comes and goes.
> 
> ...


Good news it isn't what I presumed which may be a failing transformer in the amp. It does sound like dust. 

You need to return them to your shady dealer, demand a replacement or a refund.


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## givmedew

I have a dilemma… I know nothing about Stax but I wanted a decent pair of headphones that could make me feel special like my speakers do but without being loud and waking my wife and child…

I have bought so many $200-2000 headphones and returned them to Amazon that I’ve started to worry that Amazon would ban me.  To be clear the most I’ve spent on a single pair has been $1300 but they where open box headphones that normally go for $2000.  Most of my purchases have been open box in hopes I wouldn’t feel as bad about returning them all.

While my first impression of the HiFiMann Sundaras where that they are better than my 19yr old Sennheiser HD590… they didn’t sound good enough to exit the realm of I HATE HEADPHONES…

I was starting to get to the point where I just didn’t think headphones could do it!  

Then I read a little about Stax… and I said F it…

I bought the Stax Lambda Pro Classic / SRM-Xh bundle…

My jaw dropped!  They can’t do what a properly imaged speaker can do… BUT they HAVE THERE OWN MAGIC!!!! Dare I say it was like when I heard the $80,000 Martin Logan speakers AT MARTIN LOGAN… it was an absolute shock!!!

Problem is that they fall flat on their face around 75-80dB… I felt this just had to be the amplifier…

So I quickly doubled down!!!!

I haven’t owned my headphones even a month yet!

I found this tube amp on reverb for $505 shipped!

I’m really hoping it’s money well spent…. 

I’m wondering if I should invest in an SRD-7/mkii as well….

I ask because I have tons of really high end 2CH and mono block amplifiers and I want to also play around with my Tripath “T-Class” and maybe even buy some A class amps.  I’m also eventually going to buy one of the more affordable ancient McIntosh 2CH amps.  One of the old ones with the old terminals and everything… whatever the cheapest decent one I can get in the door with. 

What should I expect out of the SRD-T1 and are the SRD7/mkii worth looking at as well?


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## thinker (Jul 1, 2022)

Stax Lambda Signature/CL   (closed)

The prototype testing showed that the traditional closed design is not ideal for electrostatic headphones. Made a complitely new design with new thoughts.
It's a wooden case wich has three departments bass,midrange and highs. Each department has a hole with a plug wich you can close . The design is slightly angled
towards the top wich let the highs breath. You can use the phone without plugs or adjust it with two plugs etc., this acts also as manual frequency adjustment. To my ears this is the one of the most realistic sounding headphones. Inside i use wool wich is slightly oiled to get more soundproofing , as a wooden design this is a very light weight headphone and the sound leakage is minimal.


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## mulveling (Jul 1, 2022)

givmedew said:


> I have a dilemma… I know nothing about Stax but I wanted a decent pair of headphones that could make me feel special like my speakers do but without being loud and waking my wife and child…
> 
> I have bought so many $200-2000 headphones and returned them to Amazon that I’ve started to worry that Amazon would ban me.  To be clear the most I’ve spent on a single pair has been $1300 but they where open box headphones that normally go for $2000.  Most of my purchases have been open box in hopes I wouldn’t feel as bad about returning them all.
> 
> ...


I have a friend very into his 2ch (like me) who dislikes headphones (not like me) and has similar family constraints as you. I felt the best bet to wow an anti-headphone guy was Stax. However he reacted very positively to the ES Lab ES-R10 (out of a Headroom Balanced Max), and not as much to the 007 Mk I out of a KGSShv. That really surprised me. So maybe it's either Stax, ES-R10, or MDR-R10 for guys like that. Anyways, glad you found pleasure in Stax, and you have a lot to look forward to from here 

Your volume problems - and more - are definitely the fault of your subpar Stax amp. I'm not familiar with it but the T1 should be a huge improvement and good match to the Lambdas, which are far easier to drive than the Omega-types. If you want to do this "really right" in the future you'll need to look at the "KG" type amps with circuits either designed or improved by Dr. Gilmore, and/or the Mjolnir amps. Those are the amps you'll need to explore the potential of the omega class headphones, but they can also extract more from your lambdas too.

The amp for electrostatic setups is a FAR more important component than the amp for dynamic headphones. Prepare to be blown away by the differences.


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## thinker (Jul 3, 2022)

-


----------



## jjshin23

givmedew said:


> I have a dilemma… I know nothing about Stax but I wanted a decent pair of headphones that could make me feel special like my speakers do but without being loud and waking my wife and child…
> 
> I have bought so many $200-2000 headphones and returned them to Amazon that I’ve started to worry that Amazon would ban me.  To be clear the most I’ve spent on a single pair has been $1300 but they where open box headphones that normally go for $2000.  Most of my purchases have been open box in hopes I wouldn’t feel as bad about returning them all.
> 
> ...


Based on having high end 2CH amps, the SRD7 mk2 might be a good option to take advantage of some of them.
I have the SRD7 MK2 and recently picked up a KGSSHV to compare and they are very close and a matter of preference I think.
The SRD7 MK2 is connected to a PassLab INT150 with Stax 007MK1 which is still my favorite setup over the KGSSHV. I like the 007MK2 and ES1a better on the KGSSHV.

The SRD7 MK2/PassLab INT150 has a deeper sound stage, more separation of instruments, more holographic or 3D sound. Bass has a little bit better impact, mids are pushed back a little with nice sparkle up top without sibilance. I do think I am not getting the most out of the amp through the SRD7, maybe 90% of the amps potential, because I've hooked up speakers as well as the HE6 OG and felt I got more out of it. But the 007 mk1 just disappears and becomes like speakers on this setup which I have not heard anything else like it so far.

The KGSSHV, compared to the SRD7, feels a little more forward, wider soundstage, excellent imaging, not as much separation of instruments, and very good over all dynamics. It is an excellent amp and enjoying them more I listen to it. Just giving it more time to see between the two but I think it will be hard to beat the SRD7 and 007mk1 setup.

It really seems to be a matter of different flavors where not one is better than the other but what seems to pair with each well for me.


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## lma333

Hi everyone,
i’m new in the world of Stax, just got an 009 and waiting for my x9000 to arrive.
I’m searching for the perfect amp that i can use for the x9000.
for all my other headphone/amps combo that i bought in the past i always do an A/B test comparison using a switch.
so i was wondering if there is  any type of source switch that i can buy somewhere to A/B test stax amp?
i spent some time with google to find this switch but no luck… 
i’m looking for something similar as this but for Stax :
https://www.sescom.com/products/vie...-audio-mp3-flac-wma-player-ab-switch-35mm-18-

if anyone knows that would be very helpful.
thank you very much in advance


----------



## ufospls2

lma333 said:


> Hi everyone,
> i’m new in the world of Stax, just got an 009 and waiting for my x9000 to arrive.
> I’m searching for the perfect amp that i can use for the x9000.
> for all my other headphone/amps combo that i bought in the past i always do an A/B test comparison using a switch.
> ...


Zynsonix might be able to build you a switcher of some sort that would help?

https://www.zynsonix.com/AdaptersSwitchers_c_12.html


----------



## catscratch

givmedew said:


> I have a dilemma… I know nothing about Stax but I wanted a decent pair of headphones that could make me feel special like my speakers do but without being loud and waking my wife and child…
> 
> I have bought so many $200-2000 headphones and returned them to Amazon that I’ve started to worry that Amazon would ban me.  To be clear the most I’ve spent on a single pair has been $1300 but they where open box headphones that normally go for $2000.  Most of my purchases have been open box in hopes I wouldn’t feel as bad about returning them all.
> 
> ...



The T1 should be enough for a Lambda Pro, but it's still one of the weaker amps in terms of raw output power. However there are mods for it that can make it much more powerful, if you've got some DIY skills. If it ends up not being powerful enough, I'd look around for a used 313, 323, or 353x, that should have more than enough power for a basic Lambda and still be reasonably affordable. The older amps do have capacitors that will dry up over time and might need replacing so bear that in mind also. If you can find a used 717, that's more or less the best amp Stax ever put out aside from the legendary - and ridiculously expensive - T2. There are also aftermarket options from places like Mjolnir Audio or Headamp but they're usually very expensive, and way overkill for a Lambda Pro.

The transformer boxes will work but you do give up some resolution and performance at the frequency extremes. On the plus side you gain more system matching freedom as you can use a variety of speaker amps.


----------



## oneguy

lma333 said:


> Hi everyone,
> i’m new in the world of Stax, just got an 009 and waiting for my x9000 to arrive.
> I’m searching for the perfect amp that i can use for the x9000.
> for all my other headphone/amps combo that i bought in the past i always do an A/B test comparison using a switch.
> ...


Or goldpoint can help. 
https://goldpt.com/


----------



## hifixman

Just like to share: 

Viva Egoista 845 System （ Susvara & Playback Design MDP-8 Dream DAC）Versus Viva STX System （ Stax 009 & DCS Bartok）

with very short sound demo ( 845 at 1:42; STX at 3:08)

https://b23.tv/IiT9tEs


----------



## Kiats

Just got this on loan yesterday. Having a listen to it right now. I noticed though that the cable is not as wide as that on other Stax I have.


----------



## Kiats

Going to break out the Stax SR 404 to give to them a run out. Interestingly, the the 404 seems to be more impactful and have a bigger soundstage too.


----------



## Sandro Sena

Kerry said:


> We have something like this in the works. I'll keep you posted.





bigjako said:


> Let’s call it the Kaydee and pitch it to Headphones.com or Headamp. But seriously, thank you.  I recently had my Electra serviced fo add a Normal Bias Jack and realize the Kaydee would let me hear a NB on a Carbon
> 
> I can see the stylish logo in front of my eyes. How much would it cost to make, like really and properly? No cutting corners?


Any news, Kerry? I am sure this converter would be very well received by the Stax community.


----------



## KDS315 (Jul 6, 2022)

lma333 said:


> Hi everyone,
> i’m new in the world of Stax, just got an 009 and waiting for my x9000 to arrive.
> I’m searching for the perfect amp that i can use for the x9000.
> for all my other headphone/amps combo that i bought in the past i always do an A/B test comparison using a switch.
> ...


That would require a High Voltage (Relay based) Switch, but with some clever high voltage electronics to avoid any spikes to protect the STAX headphones AND the amplifiers. The headphones should be quickly discharged within the switchover sequence I guess (?)
I have a similar passive system using gold pin relays for a 4-1 RCA switch system with IR remote. Quite nicely built in Germany by DODOCUS. They could possibly built one, as they do a lot of custom projects.


----------



## Kerry

Sandro Sena said:


> Any news, Kerry? I am sure this converter would be very well received by the Stax community.


No new news. Hopefully we’ll have a prototype out later this year.


----------



## droido256

Question regarding literally physically stacking units. I just acquired a Cambridge dacmagic 200m coupled to a Stax SRM-400. I have it currently sitting on the back of the Srm-400, mostly on part that doesn’t have the vent, but overlaps the vent a little bit, maybe 1/2 inch. Would this cause a heat problem with the Srm-400? Or could the heat generated from the 400 amp cause issues with the Cambridge? It doesn’t seem like the 400 is generating too much heat, buuut just curious. So far sound wise the two are pairing well(L-700 is what I’m wearing now), esp given its via Bluetooth(waiting for the usb cable for the iPhone connection to arrive)


----------



## mulveling (Jul 13, 2022)

Really really enjoyed my sessions with the ES1a this weekend. Its sound *finally* came together for me. Everything sounded brilliant. Not too dark this time. Using it with "only" a KGSShv for now - though it's the old IXYS 500V version, which to my ears sounds more neutral than other circa-2014 versions which were either too bright (minis) or too warm (Sanyo parts). Can't wait to hear it with a T2! Incidentally the IXYS version sounds to me more like a T2 than any of other "lesser amps" (tonally, sonic flavor wise) I've had, just that it's missing the T2's extra bit of organic warmth, bass impact, and effortless musical flow. That said I bet these ES1a also partner brilliantly with a bright KGSShv mini or any KGSShv Carbon.

ES1a is still a bit dark, but it didn't bother me as much as before. It sounds sort of like a super-warmed 009, with a larger soundstage. Also warmer than the 009S. I think ES Lab has settled on the "dark pads", and is only shipping those now - so keep that in mind when reading earlier impressions (people seemed to hate the "bright" pads). I got the silver-clad cable version; perhaps that needed some time to break-in?  Though I never noticed any significant sonic break-in changes from other Stax headphones.

Also recently upgraded my headphone source lately, to a Phison PD2 SE preamp + DAC. It's making everything sound significantly better. I can't even enjoy the Yggdrasil anymore - gotta sell that. I'm going to have to cart the Phison back & forth from my loft to the girlfriend's home


----------



## protoss (Jul 13, 2022)

mulveling said:


> ES1a this weekend.


Didn't realized you got a ES1A. Their pretty good huh. I paired them with a modded 313 and it sings beautifully. One of the best Estats for the money, almost perfect.
I recommend the es1a over the 009/009s.
Price, performance and build.


----------



## mulveling

protoss said:


> Didn't realized you got a ES1A. Their pretty good huh. I paired them with a modded 313 and it sings beautifully. One of the best Estats for the money, almost perfect.
> I recommend the es1a over the 009/009s.
> Price, performance and build.


Yeah - it seems like ES Lab is making the best values in high-end headphones today. The ES1a are gorgeous in person. Build is generally great, other than there being a slight rattle/looseness when I tap the outer metal mesh covers - but this doesn't seem to affect sound. Very happy with the ES-R10 and now the ES1a!


----------



## oneguy

May just be my pairing but I don’t get a wide soundstage perception from the ES-1a. I hear more of a flat wall of sound. They’re still my number one most lively headphone though. I would put them in a different category than 009/009S. The 009/009S offer more detail and instrument separation while the 1a makes a more cohesive sound. The best analogy I can think of is being to taste the pickles, ketchup, cheese, etc. on your burger vice tasting the burger as a whole. Neither way is bad and preference can often depend on mood.

Overall though I agree the ES-1a is a slam dunk. I think Benson makes a great headphone and I’m excited to have my L700 converted to a ES Sigma L700 in a few weeks. Can’t go wrong with ES Labs.


----------



## omega1990

Finally obtained a stax 4070. I've been trying to get one for a long time, but never had the funds when one popped up till now. It's an interesting headphone and kinda looks thrown together compared to stax's other headphones. What really surprised me was how the sound is very different from other estats I've owned. 

Yeah I know it's supposed to be a studio monitor, but I did not expect the subbass to be as present as it is. The bass is maybe a hair above being truly flat. Subbass is a little more present than midbass, so it does not slam like the 007 (4070 does not have 007 midbass hump), but that subbass is unusually present for an estat. When bass does slam though it sounds bigger than on other estats though.

Mids also took me off guard. Where is the shout on this thing, lol? I noticed modern reviewers like to stereotype estats for having some shout, but the 4070 surprisingly enough has zero shout, and looking from older posts about this headphone some described the 4070 as lifeless and I can hear where they might be coming from. The touch of shout on other estats I've heard to my ears added an extra touch of realism to live recordings to me anyway, and it's gone on the 4070.

The sound also has no etching I can detect and is a little less detailed than both my 007 and 009S. Sounds about as detailed as my 404le from memory. Treble is as heavenly as I expected it to be being an estat and all. Soundstage is outside of my head but only a little bit being a closed back (still very impressive considering its an estat being closed).

Now I recently changed the tubes on my mjolnir novem amp to ecc83 rca which tilts the sound toward the bass over treble, so the 4070 being a studio monitor is probably taking advantage of that effect.

Personally I think stax should revist this idea. If they can make an omega type headphone in a closed back form and keep the subbass that I am hearing here, I would definitely buy it


----------



## zomkung

omega1990 said:


> Finally obtained a stax 4070. I've been trying to get one for a long time, but never had the funds when one popped up till now. It's an interesting headphone and kinda looks thrown together compared to stax's other headphones. What really surprised me was how the sound is very different from other estats I've owned.
> 
> Yeah I know it's supposed to be a studio monitor, but I did not expect the subbass to be as present as it is. The bass is maybe a hair above being truly flat. Subbass is a little more present than midbass, so it does not slam like the 007 (4070 does not have 007 midbass hump), but that subbass is unusually present for an estat. When bass does slam though it sounds bigger than on other estats though.
> 
> ...



How loud is the sound leakage coming from 4070? Probably buy one for a headphone to use in the office.


----------



## omega1990

zomkung said:


> How loud is the sound leakage coming from 4070? Probably buy one for a headphone to use in the office.


Haven't tested that yet, probably will later today. The pads seal pretty well on my head, but depending on the strength of the headband band strap which is like the 007 it might sink on your head due to the added weight of the cups. Also used prices for this headphone come at a premium, hopefully if you do decide to buy one you can negotiate on the price. I bought mine from spritzer on his mjolnir audio website.


----------



## Mach3 (Jul 14, 2022)

omega1990 said:


> Haven't tested that yet, probably will later today. The pads seal pretty well on my head, but depending on the strength of the headband band strap which is like the 007 it might sink on your head due to the added weight of the cups. Also used prices for this headphone come at a premium, hopefully if you do decide to buy one you can negotiate on the price. I bought mine from spritzer on his mjolnir audio website.


Lol you beat me to it. I was like yes got all these closed yester years legendary headphones. Just need Stax only proper closed full size headphone, went on to spriter site ready to enquire and it gone. Glad it went to a good home.


----------



## mulveling

Dang, now is a tough time to be seeking out rare legendary headphones 
I think I'm out of that game anyways. 2ch speakers, turntables, tubes and electrostatic amps eats up all the money I would need to do that! An X9000 might be tempting, though...

@oneguy very interested in your thoughts on the Sigma-clone'd L700! I'd considered pivoting to that one for a second, before buying ES1a. Now I'm happy I got the 1a - but still interested in those Sigmas!

@Mach3 really nice ES-R10 impressions, glad you like 'em


----------



## buzzlulu

If anyone is looking for a new quad set of PSVANE EL34PH for their T2 pm me. Kerry and I have been experimenting with tubes and this is one of the test sets I just purchased.

PSVANE makes 4 versions of EL34’s. This is their top and most expensive version. Beautiful packaging. 

Why am I selling - I made the mistake of going down the - expensive- rabbit hole of NOS vintage tubes. Woe is me


----------



## oneguy

@mulveling happy to oblige with comments and comparisons to pre-conversion L700 as well as Stax SR-Σ Pro.


----------



## Mach3

mulveling said:


> Dang, now is a tough time to be seeking out rare legendary headphones
> I think I'm out of that game anyways. 2ch speakers, turntables, tubes and electrostatic amps eats up all the money I would need to do that! An X9000 might be tempting, though...
> 
> @Mach3 really nice ES-R10 impressions, glad you like 'em


The decision was simple, acquire the X9000 and the DIY T2, to do a 3 way comparison (ES1a, X9000, SR-Ω) and be content.
Oh how life throw a spanner in the works. Having kids and realizing, they don't make R10, L3000 and 4070 anymore.
But the X9000 and DIY T2 are still in production, well the T2 sort of. 
So the decision was simple, when all 3 got listed on 2 different platform I jump to it.
As this situation most likely will never arise ever again and I might regret it later on.
Which I'm glad I didn't let the opportunity slip, because all 3 are so unique and have such amazing history.

What's there not to like regarding the ES-R10, considering most TOTL headphone aren't very great in terms of value.
This one knock it out of the park.
I'm glad you like the ES1a, I love them too, gotta say ES Labs makes amazing stuff.
I'll be posting up comparisons between them and the SR-Ω later on when I get the chance to, but don't hold me to it anytime soon.


----------



## oneguy (Jul 14, 2022)

@Mach3 Agree with ya there. Gotta stroke while the iron is hot! I was close to buying the 4070 because of its uniqueness but overall I am against close back headphones and that part of my brain won out … but that did open the door for other long term acquisitions to fill out my headphone portfolio.


----------



## mulveling

Mach3 said:


> The decision was simple, acquire the X9000 and the DIY T2, to do a 3 way comparison (ES1a, X9000, SR-Ω) and be content.
> Oh how life throw a spanner in the works. Having kids and realizing, they don't make R10, L3000 and 4070 anymore.
> But the X9000 and DIY T2 are still in production, well the T2 sort of.
> So the decision was simple, when all 3 got listed on 2 different platform I jump to it.
> ...


That logic is solid - I don't blame you for getting those rare beasts while they're get-able. I do believe you'll eventually find the T2 makes for a bigger positive sonic return (on your omega-class electrostats) than almost any headphone-to-headphone change can yield (at this level)


----------



## Mach3 (Jul 14, 2022)

mulveling said:


> That logic is solid - I don't blame you for getting those rare beasts while they're get-able. I do believe you'll eventually find the T2 makes for a bigger positive sonic return (on your omega-class electrostats) than almost any headphone-to-headphone change can yield (at this level)


Funny thing was, this journey all started with me trying to find my ultimate speakers, the Quad ESL-57.
Which lead to me to into the electrostatic world, couldn't find a decent good condition ESL-57.
So I ended up picking up an ultra rare Stax ELS-F81 in a garage sale (panel has been fully restore all circuit upgraded).
That purchase lead me into researching the best electrostatic headphone.
Enter the HE90 and the SR-Ω, after getting these 2 gem I was sworn to only needing the T2 amp.
Well the X9000 came to light and ES Labs started making ES1a (got this as a backup just in case the SR-Ω fails)
Then the ES-R10 made my curiosity dance around the idea of the best closed headphones.
So here I am, 2 more piece of the puzzle. X9000 and T2. I would like to audition the X9000 doesn't sound like I would like them from all the impression I read so far.


----------



## omega1990

zomkung said:


> How loud is the sound leakage coming from 4070? Probably buy one for a headphone to use in the office.


I did not have anyone with me to test sound leakage from the 4070, so unfortunately the only thing I could do was play music at normal listening volumes and cover the pads with my hands. I was able to cover both pads up completely and I could still hear music playing clearly but it's generally pretty quiet. 

I think if you were sitting next to someone, they would be able to make out what you're listening to. However I think if you were several feet away from someone passing by, I think they might have to stop and try to focus to hear what you are listening to. This headphone was made for studio and broadcast applications. So being closed was to help these type of workers find what they were looking for in their recordings. So I think this headphone wasn't made to isolate for casual listening in public outside of those type of work environments. It does block outside noise well when playing music.

Also keep in mind as a studio monitor it is the opposite of the 007 in that it is unforgiving and transparent. If you play a poorly recorded track, the 4070 will immediately let you know. Essentially a bad recording might sound worse and a great recording will sound fantastic, there is no sugar coating here. In general music sounds good and I'm not coming across many tracks that sound particularly awful.


----------



## urs

I did own the 4070 a* long time *ago....
Here you may find some impressions , also from other users

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread.189204/page-67#post-2499005
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-4070s-are-in-the-house-pics.303509/page-3#post-4007897

Regards
Urs

For *very good sound insulation *_in & out, _ I now "converted" to (Custom) IEMs


----------



## Mach3

I will be posting impression of these two later this month. 
Brief comment thing that grabs my attention are I don't find the ES1a dark. 
Build quality pretty good compared to the ES-R10 and the SR-Ω


----------



## oneguy

Mach3 said:


> I will be posting impression of these two later this month.
> Brief comment thing that grabs my attention are I don't find the ES1a dark.
> Build quality pretty good compared to the ES-R10 and the SR-Ω


Ive never seen an ES-1 with the white letters and removable cable. Very interesting 🤔


----------



## mulveling

oneguy said:


> Ive never seen an ES-1 with the white letters and removable cable. Very interesting 🤔


Yeah...what the heck? lol


----------



## Mach3 (Jul 16, 2022)

oneguy said:


> Ive never seen an ES-1 with the white letters and removable cable. Very interesting 🤔


Didn't even notice that the lettering wasn't common until you mentioned it.


mulveling said:


> Yeah...what the heck? lol


Removable cable was an experimental when I asked Benson from ES Labs if he could make the ES1a with removable cable.
He ask he why, I told him I got spare cable when I got my SR-Ω. It would be great to compare the ES1a vs the SR-Ω sound wise.
If they both using the same cable, would take away the equation if the cable affected the ES1a sound in any way.
He told me it would take a few month for R&D if it was feasible. A bit over a month later I think, he said here the total and send me this pic.
This one is number 57, who know if you ask him I'm sure he will do it for you if you ask nicely. It a premium on top of the base price.

UPDATE: ES Lab accepts request ES1a with removable cable.


----------



## bigjako

It’s great to see so many new ES-1a owners.  The headphone, and Bensons deserve the attention and appreciation.  My question for you guys is how you feel it sounds on tubes vs solid state, if you’ve been able to do such comparisons.  I’m so close to going back to all-tubes but the ES loses some of its speed and transient edges on tubes for me.  I’ve rolled a bunch of tubes and no change to that, so I wonder if it really is just best paired with solid state (to be fair, my CCS modded hybrid 006t sounds great with it, but that’s not really what I consider a tube amp like the Electra).  Anyone listen to it on a T2?


----------



## mulveling (Jul 16, 2022)

bigjako said:


> It’s great to see so many new ES-1a owners.  The headphone, and Bensons deserve the attention and appreciation.  My question for you guys is how you feel it sounds on tubes vs solid state, if you’ve been able to do such comparisons.  I’m so close to going back to all-tubes but the ES loses some of its speed and transient edges on tubes for me.  I’ve rolled a bunch of tubes and no change to that, so I wonder if it really is just best paired with solid state (to be fair, my CCS modded hybrid 006t sounds great with it, but that’s not really what I consider a tube amp like the Electra).  Anyone listen to it on a T2?


The ES1a has really impressed an audiophile buddy of mine who generally dislikes (or has a hard time engaging with) headphones. He also loved the ES-R10. And @purk  came by yesterday and was impressed with the ES1a too  It feels like this is what the 009S should have been (sort of vexing that the 009S costs more than 009, while the 009 is still better IMO). My initial complaints about ES1a's darkness have been melting away in the last couple weeks. They are still reasonably warm, especially compared to 009. They do pair excellently with a particularly neutral KGSShv (my favorite variant of 5 different sounding versions I've heard - minis too bright, Sanyos too warm).

I'll hopefully get to run the ES1a on T2 in a few weeks. Maybe @number1sixerfan can fill in his experience there? ES Lab is looking like the best value in high-end headphones today. Mad respect for Benson, here.

Remember that the T2 is kind of "magic". It will warm up and fix tonality of the 009. Then it will open up the 007 Mk I. And it will grant the he90 balls for rock. There's no way a single amp can do all that - except for magic! So I don't expect the ES1a will be any kind of mismatch, there.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Jul 16, 2022)

mulveling said:


> I'll hopefully get to run the ES1a on T2 in a few weeks. Maybe @number1sixerfan can fill in his experience there? ES Lab is looking like the best value in high-end headphones today. Mad respect for Benson, here.



I haven't posted here much, as work is really doing a number on me lol, but I have been mainly spending time with only the T2 over the past few weeks and have had a few lengthy sessions with the ES-1a. My original quick impressions were based on just two small sessions. What hasn't changed is they are still quite dark in tone, which isn't necessarily my preference; however, they absolutely sing out of the T2. Very enjoyable. Very spacious, great detail (although not as much as the 009 for example), really great punch and bass. I intended to do a full comparison between the 009/007/Es-1a, with an hour or so each, but each time I ended up sticking with the Es-1a for 3-4hrs. For the price, you can't do better. (also to be clear, I'm sure the ES-1a also is really great through the BHSE/Aeras I was testing with before, I just didn't give it the time to really delve into and the darker tonality is what stood out early)

Still would like to get a better handle on how they compare in each aspect of sound to the others, but I just haven't gotten there yet.

Also, if anyone is interested, my original x9000 order is now in route to me, ETA Sunday. I originally intended to sell the pair I have now discounted, as I think it was a demo pair due to a few nicks it came with, but I'm going to keep them (I actually overpaid for them significantly when the supply/demand was absolutely terrible). Will sell the new pair, NIB, still under retail. Message me if interested, if not I'll put them in the classifieds later this week.


----------



## bigjako

Thanks both of you.  I don’t feel the ES-1a is dark, to my ears at least, particularly compared to the Mk1 007, but it certainly comes across darker than the Lambdas.  For whatever reason (impedance?) the 007 sounds great on both the Electra and the Carbon, and I honestly can’t pick a favorite between them.  But the ES-1as loses some of its magic on the Electra.  A long time ago I read someone say that the ES-1a didn’t pair well with tubes and (T2 notwithstanding) wanted to see if anyone ever found a good tube amp pairing for them. 

PS - I’ve spent the last few weeks a/b/c testing between the Carbon, a Dominik CCS-modded 006t and a stock 007t. Carbon wins, obvs, but the CCS’d 006t beats out the stock 007 clearly and isn’t miles behind the Carbon, even with the ES1a and 007 mk1. I wish I could CCS mod the 007t but that seems to be a bridge too far.


----------



## oneguy

@bigjako I’m running the ES-1a/KGGG combo here and like it. I had a fellow audiophile over bout 2 weeks ago and he was wowed by it as well.


----------



## Kiats

Quick Q for owners: What is the headband of the ES-1a made of? I am seriously considering the ES-1a but am just a bit concerned about longevity. 🙏


----------



## mulveling

Kiats said:


> Quick Q for owners: What is the headband of the ES-1a made of? I am seriously considering the ES-1a but am just a bit concerned about longevity. 🙏


It's plastic (product page says CNC'd aluminum and nylon plastic parts). They sell spare headbands if you're concerned  
I'll say the metal cups are fairly impressive, and the build is beautiful overall. The 009 headband is plastic, too!


----------



## Kiats

mulveling said:


> It's plastic (product page says CNC'd aluminum and nylon plastic parts). They sell spare headbands if you're concerned
> I'll say the metal cups are fairly impressive, and the build is beautiful overall. The 009 headband is plastic, too!


Thanks! I was just not sure which parts were aluminum and which plastic. I had the trauma of the headband of an Omega shatter while gently taking it off my head. 🤦🏻‍♂️ Glad to hear that about the ES-1a. 

Heheh! I have the 007s (both mk1 and 2) and the 009s but the headbands were thicker by then… 

Thanks for your views on the build. I’ve just pulled the trigger and have placed an order with Benson. In a few months, I will ponder his take on the R10.


----------



## protoss (Jul 16, 2022)

Kiats said:


> Omega shatter


Stax's rubbish lambdas bands on the Omega. Such a shame.
The Es1a also have the lame lambdas band. Feels a little bit more sturdy.






Kiats said:


> I will ponder his take on the R10.


Its pretty darn good. The ES-R10 did great justice to Sony MDR R10, not like plywoodman


----------



## purk

I did really like the ES1A…..it’s really a musical headphones with wider and deeper sound field than the 009.   Wish I bought one earlier when it is a little cheaper than now.  I Definitely will buy one in the future.  Should I save up for the X9000 or just get the ES1A though?


----------



## Kiats

purk said:


> I did really like the ES1A…..it’s really a musical headphones with wider and deeper sound field than the 009.   Wish I bought one earlier when it is a little cheaper than now.  I Definitely will buy one in the future.  Should I save up for the X9000 or just get the ES1A though?


There is currently a 15% discount on the ES1a.


----------



## Kiats

protoss said:


> Stax's rubbish lambdas bands on the Omega. Such a shame.
> The Es1a also have the lame lambdas band. Feels a little bit more sturdy.
> 
> 
> Its pretty darn good. The ES-R10 did great justice to Sony MDR R10, not like plywoodman


Thanks @protoss ! I will circle back for the ES-R10 in due course.


----------



## oneguy

Kiats said:


> There is currently a 15% discount on the ES1a.


Lol, got to love the 15% discount that keeps moving up and is always on. Kind of reminds me of Harbor Freight. If the “sale” is always going on then its not a sale…its the normal price.


----------



## Mach3

bigjako said:


> It’s great to see so many new ES-1a owners.  The headphone, and Bensons deserve the attention and appreciation.  My question for you guys is how you feel it sounds on tubes vs solid state, if you’ve been able to do such comparisons.  I’m so close to going back to all-tubes but the ES loses some of its speed and transient edges on tubes for me.  I’ve rolled a bunch of tubes and no change to that, so I wonder if it really is just best paired with solid state (to be fair, my CCS modded hybrid 006t sounds great with it, but that’s not really what I consider a tube amp like the Electra).  Anyone listen to it on a T2?


Only true tube amp I know of for electrostatic headphones are the megatron and the headamp aristaeus. 
The other you mentioned, I'm pretty sure the final drive stage is solid state.



mulveling said:


> The ES1a has really impressed an audiophile buddy of mine who generally dislikes (or has a hard time engaging with) headphones. He also loved the ES-R10. And @purk  came by yesterday and was impressed with the ES1a too  It feels like this is what the 009S should have been (sort of vexing that the 009S costs more than 009, while the 009 is still better IMO). My initial complaints about ES1a's darkness have been melting away in the last couple weeks. They are still reasonably warm, especially compared to 009. They do pair excellently with a particularly neutral KGSShv (my favorite variant of 5 different sounding versions I've heard - minis too bright, Sanyos too warm).
> 
> I'll hopefully get to run the ES1a on T2 in a few weeks. Maybe @number1sixerfan can fill in his experience there? ES Lab is looking like the best value in high-end headphones today. Mad respect for Benson, here.
> 
> Remember that the T2 is kind of "magic". It will warm up and fix tonality of the 009. Then it will open up the 007 Mk I. And it will grant the he90 balls for rock. There's no way a single amp can do all that - except for magic! So I don't expect the ES1a will be any kind of mismatch, there.


That matchwes my finding with the KGSShv variant, the non sanyo, non mini is the best combo for the ES1a.
Also, I think maybe some listener that find them dark might be confused because their laid back nature.

Anyway, the ES1a and the ES-R10 are both pretty good value if you want to experience the best on a budget.


----------



## buzzlulu

Mach3 said:


> Only true tube amp I know of for electrostatic headphones are the megatron and the headamp aristaeus.


T2


----------



## protoss (Jul 17, 2022)

Mach3 said:


> experience the best on a budget.


I will not call this a "budget." We have been manipulated and lied too!

This is a respectful proper price of what a high end, end game headphone pricing should be!

*All endgame headphones should be priced at $1500 total period! *

Budget should be considered $500.

All companies that pricing their gear over to 4k to 6k + should be ashamed of themselves. If they can't deliver a endgame product at common sense price, they are schiit so to speak.


----------



## Mach3

purk said:


> I did really like the ES1A…..it’s really a musical headphones with wider and deeper sound field than the 009.   Wish I bought one earlier when it is a little cheaper than now.  I Definitely will buy one in the future.  Should I save up for the X9000 or just get the ES1A though?


How about get both and tell us all what you think after you do a comparision?


----------



## mulveling (Jul 17, 2022)

buzzlulu said:


> T2


It's a hybrid that uses a lot of transistors. Like, a LOT. Most electrostatic "tube" amps are actually hybrids, and the T2 is most complex of all.

The HEV90 and Aristaeus its clones (not that there are many) are another of the few all-tube amps. It's not as powerful as the modern hybrids. The hybrid approach is common for a reason.


----------



## Mach3

mulveling said:


> It's a hybrid that uses a lot of transistors. Like, a LOT. Most electrostatic "tube" amps are actually hybrids, and the T2 is most complex of all.
> 
> The HEV90 and Aristaeus its clones (not that there are many) are another of the few all-tube amps. It's not as powerful as the modern hybrids. The hybrid approach is common for a reason.


I thought the Megatron was all tube too, just more powerful than the HEV90 & Aristaeus.



protoss said:


> I will not call this a "budget." We have been manipulated and lied too!
> 
> This is a respectful proper price of what a high end, end game headphone pricing should be!
> 
> ...


Yes I agree with you're views, however those day and long gone. Audeze and Hifiman kinda kick started that trend with LCD2 $1000 > LCD3 $2000 > LCD 4 $4000 or was it $3000. I'll never forget Dr. Fang Bian, justification quote. Why it so expensive, because it sounds good.
But hey, I think it much better value to get ES1a & ES-R10 than a LCD 5 for example and still have some changes left. 
Audeze owner don't take this the wrong way, it just my opinion. If you love your LCD, then that's all that matter.


----------



## mulveling

Mach3 said:


> I thought the Megatron was all tube too, just more powerful than the HEV90 & Aristaeus.


Yes Megatron is all-tube, I didn't mean to exclude other amps from the "all tube" banner, just include the hev90 / Aristaeus and note that T2 is a hybrid that's VERY heavy in sand! All the Stax-made tube amps are hybrids too.


----------



## buzzlulu

@mulveling 
thanks for the detailed explanation


----------



## CT007 (Jul 17, 2022)

Just to go over this topic once more, as I am very close now to being able to order...

For* 007*(latest/newest), should I go for Mjolnir *KGSSHV* or *KGST*? (Or something I'm unaware of at that price?)

My friend has a 007a+"KGSS Mini", and said he wished he had the money for a tube amp. I absolutely don't need TWO input jacks. Perhaps the disadvantage of one amp is that it sounds not as good with 007, but is more well-rounded for other L700/etc?


----------



## mulveling (Jul 17, 2022)

CT007 said:


> Just to go over this topic once more, as I am very close now to being able to order...
> 
> For* 007*(latest/newest), should I go for Mjolnir *KGSSHV* or *KGST*? (Or something I'm unaware of at that price?)
> 
> My friend has a 007a+"KGSS Mini", and said he wished he had the money for a tube amp.


I don’t know the current version, but for 007 MK 1 I’d take any KGSShv version over KGST, all day. The 007’s warmth and need for power matches very well with KGSShv (and Carbon, and T2). The early minis were too bright for me with 009 but paired nicely with 007.

KGST is a decent choice for 009 or L700.


----------



## CT007 (Jul 18, 2022)

mulveling said:


> Carbon, and T2


Ok, so these would be the next step up from KGSSHV. Would you strongly recommend a Carbon, for the cost difference(+$2650/double)?


----------



## Chefguru

CT007 said:


> Ok, so these would be the next step up from KGSSHV. Would you strongly recommend a Carbon, for the cost difference(+$2650/double)?


Carbon /007 is in some minds a Top 5 combo of any kind


----------



## protoss (Jul 19, 2022)

This is technically the order from top to bottom. The first 5 are interchangeable, not the T2 thou. It's #1

DIY T2
Carbon CC
Kerry new amp
BHSE
Megatron
KGSSHV
KGST
Stax 717
Stax 727 mod
Stax 313 mod
Stax T1W mod
Stax 006ts mod
Stax T1S mod
Stax T1 mod

Personally, the 717 out ranks all of them and the 313 modded. Only thing it can't beat is DIY T2


----------



## Chefguru (Jul 18, 2022)

protoss said:


> This is technically the order from top to bottom. The first 5 is interchangeable, not the T2 thou. It's #1
> 
> DIY T2
> Carbon CC
> ...



I see it like

DIY T2 (the best period, undisputed)
V
V
V
Carbon cc / megatron (elite)
V
Bhse/ Carbon/ mini t2/ og t2 (great)
V
V
Kgsshv/KGST/nova (good)
V
Kgss /hev90 (min acceptable)
V
Modded Stax brand amps (okay for entry level e-stats)
V
Rest of Stax amps


----------



## protoss (Jul 18, 2022)

@Chefguru

Yup, the first 5 are interchangeable.

The 007mk1 was combo with 717. It was one of the greatest combo that was released.


----------



## Gazza

Whelp, looks like I have to buy a new pair of replacement drivers for my SR-009. After not using them for months I plugged them in recently and found the right driver noticeably lower in volume. Context: I had them in a room of the house that developed mould while we were overseas recently (Sydney had been beset by biblical-level rainfall) and discovered the pads and the cloth had mould. I cleaned them up but it's possible the electrostatic film was damaged from the mould. Or maybe it's a coincidence. Dunno.

Anyway, took them into the authorised distributor along with my amp and we compared my SR-009 with theirs and yep, definitely sounds weaker in the right driver. My wife tagged along and she confirmed it immediately, someone who couldn't care less about audio so that was that. Replacing both drivers seems to be the only recourse as having a matched pair is important. Gonna be about $2,500 AUD inc labour. Really not impressed but it's far, far cheaper than buying a new pair. At least they're giving me a full warranty so it's practically like getting a new pair. Might buy new earpads while I'm at it. Sigh.

On the flipside I'm going to hook up my Woo WEE energiser when the 009 return rather than using the STAX SRM-007 as the sound quality of my pre/power driving the 009 should be waaaaaay above what the STAX amp is capable of.


----------



## efftee

protoss said:


> This is technically the order from top to bottom. The first 5 is interchangeable, not the T2 thou. It's #1
> 
> DIY T2
> Carbon CC
> ...


Nice list. How or where does the WA 3ES fits into the scheme of things?


----------



## dkdali

Gazza said:


> Whelp, looks like I have to buy a new pair of replacement drivers for my SR-009. After not using them for months I plugged them in recently and found the right driver noticeably lower in volume. Context: I had them in a room of the house that developed mould while we were overseas recently (Sydney had been beset by biblical-level rainfall) and discovered the pads and the cloth had mould. I cleaned them up but it's possible the electrostatic film was damaged from the mould. Or maybe it's a coincidence. Dunno.
> 
> Anyway, took them into the authorised distributor along with my amp and we compared my SR-009 with theirs and yep, definitely sounds weaker in the right driver. My wife tagged along and she confirmed it immediately, someone who couldn't care less about audio so that was that. Replacing both drivers seems to be the only recourse as having a matched pair is important. Gonna be about $2,500 AUD inc labour. Really not impressed but it's far, far cheaper than buying a new pair. At least they're giving me a full warranty so it's practically like getting a new pair. Might buy new earpads while I'm at it. Sigh.
> 
> On the flipside I'm going to hook up my Woo WEE energiser when the 009 return rather than using the STAX SRM-007 as the sound quality of my pre/power driving the 009 should be waaaaaay above what the STAX amp is capable of.


I had the same issue wit my 009’s and send them in for service. Turned out to just be a bad connection that had to be re-soldered.
So maybe have the service center check the connections before replacing the units!


----------



## lsantista

protoss said:


> @Chefguru
> 
> Yup, the first 5 is interchangeable.
> 
> The 007mk1 was combo with 717. It was one of the greatest combo that was released.


I thought it was the 007T instead of 717 (both 007’s are from 1998). So the 717 was the new , later releass flagship amp to up the game, like maybe next year we will see a T9000 to “better match the qualities” of X9000?


----------



## CT007

protoss said:


> DIY T2
> Carbon CC
> Kerry new amp


So the Aeras is like a DIY T2 Mini/Jr?


----------



## protoss

efftee said:


> WA 3ES


I heard the WA3ES at a show with 009/009S. It sounded similar to BHSE, so similar rank. The Stax rep guy was there, the bald guy. I was not impressed with the Wa3es. It was neutral, crispy and so-so. For others it will be high end. For me, I was like where the "F" was the tubiness? Had to lie to rep and say it was great. Meh. 



lsantista said:


> X9000


I hope not? Stax kind of sucks at making amplifiers. If they do make one? I hope it is a solid state. 



CT007 said:


> Aeras


It looks like it from the reports. It will most likely be in the top 5 spot of good Estats. 


lsantista said:


> 1998


Yes, 717 came out in 2000. But the combo and pairing of the 007 and 717 is amazing. A true match in heaven.


----------



## CT007 (Jul 18, 2022)

Chefguru said:


> DIY T2 (the best period, undisputed)
> V
> V
> V
> ...


What do you get going from KGSSHV to Carbon? Then Carbon to CC? Then from CC to DIY T2?

With Carbon/CC/T2, I will essentially have more versatility/compatibility for other headphones, along with SQ boost?


----------



## Hubert481

Just buy a modified T1 (modification 4) and you will be happy for the rest of your life if you love tubes
http://blog.prof-x.de/2019/07/24/stax-vacuum-tube-driver-teil-5-ultimativer-vergleich/


----------



## CT007

Hubert481 said:


> Just buy a modified T1 (modification 4) and you will be happy for the rest of your life if you love tubes
> http://blog.prof-x.de/2019/07/24/stax-vacuum-tube-driver-teil-5-ultimativer-vergleich/


Price? Order site?


----------



## CT007

Why is Aeras, DIY T2, BHSE, CC, etc so expensive..? I can understand the typical $2-4K range lol, but what happens beyond that level of components..?


----------



## KDS315 (Jul 18, 2022)

CT007 said:


> Price? Order site?


There is only the way to find one for sale, or buy a SRM-T1 and have a capable person modify it with 2x ECC99 tubes and CCS. I have one and am quite happy with it.

OR

…get a SRM-007T and have it converted with 4x 6S4A tubes and CCS. Mjolnir Audio offers those.

Both are no KGSSHV CARBON, BHSE, Megatron, T2 or the like, but nevertheless fine Amps for STAX!


----------



## mulveling (Jul 18, 2022)

CT007 said:


> What do you get going from KGSSHV to Carbon? Then Carbon to CC? Then from CC to DIY T2?
> 
> With Carbon/CC/T2, I will essentially have more versatility/compatibility for other headphones, along with SQ boost?


For your 007, pick any of KGSShv / Carbon / CC / T2 depending on budget and long term goals. All are a great match. But if you find yourself overthinking this, which is easy - you can start with "just" a KGSShv and do great - see how you like that, and whether the thought of "going further" excites you.

I haven't heard Mjolnir Carbon or CC, but the KGSShv Carbon gives better dynamics, detail, and bass slam over even the best KGSShv builds. My KGSShv Carbon was a tad bright for 009 and L700, but perfect for 007 Mk I. Eksonic Aeras is also definitely worth looking at in the CC price range. And the DIY T2 beats diminishing returns expectations, in case you decide to go "all the way". Headamp BHSE is also a superb all-around amp, but for 007 specifically, I'd go Carbon over that.

The modded Stax amps on offer by Mjolnir are very interesting, at a reasonable price point. But I'd still expect a KGSShv to be noticeably better for 007.


----------



## HifiXMen

Mach3 said:


> Didn't even notice that the lettering wasn't common until you mentioned it.
> 
> Removable cable was an experimental when I asked Benson from ES Labs if he could make the ES1a with removable cable.
> He ask he why, I told him I got spare cable when I got my SR-Ω. It would be great to compare the ES1a vs the SR-Ω sound wise.
> ...


the brand new omega original cable are still available on the second-hand market in China for about 12000 chinese yuan , or $1779


----------



## BassicScience

CT007 said:


> *Why is Aeras, DIY T2, BHSE, CC, etc so expensive..?* I can understand the typical $2-4K range lol, but what happens beyond that level of components..?


Probably a combination of parts quality, assembly labor, superior construction and finish, and amortizing development and marketing costs over a limited number of units.


----------



## mulveling (Jul 18, 2022)

CT007 said:


> Why is Aeras, DIY T2, BHSE, CC, etc so expensive..? I can understand the typical $2-4K range lol, but what happens beyond that level of components..?


The T2 build is at a completely different level than the others. Extremely complex. Massive parts count. Tons of heat to dissipate. Plus the usual electrostatic amp issue of safely routing & insulating all those very high voltages.


----------



## prtuc2 (Jul 18, 2022)

CT007 said:


> Why is Aeras, DIY T2, BHSE, CC, etc so expensive..? I can understand the typical $2-4K range lol, but what happens beyond that level of components..?


I believed Kerry said the most expensive part was the chassis work, this is one of the post. Some of the cost is the customer service experiences as well, Kerry is definitely very easy to work with.


----------



## Gazza

dkdali said:


> I had the same issue wit my 009’s and send them in for service. Turned out to just be a bad connection that had to be re-soldered.
> So maybe have the service center check the connections before replacing the units!



Thanks, that's good advice. I'll mention it to them.


----------



## Chefguru

CT007 said:


> What do you get going from KGSSHV to Carbon? Then Carbon to CC? Then from CC to DIY T2?
> 
> With Carbon/CC/T2, I will essentially have more versatility/compatibility for other headphones, along with SQ boost?


The carbon is a Mutiple (2-4x ?) more power than the standard kgsshv, and the translation is an improved soundstage, hardness and bass - but most notably smoother highs. The actual improvement to the sound maybe like 10%? 
It's clearly improved, and the difference is more noted with more demanding headphones (007/crbn being in the high end of that spectrum). KGSS, KGSShv, KGSShv Carbon are linearly more powerful than each other. The CC, however, is a premium build of the carbon (aka higher quality wiring and other more expensive build pieces), but I don't believe it's incrementally more powerful. Birgir himself said the difference is not that big sonically.

DIY T2 is a tube hybrid, which has a different sound to the pure SS amps. Virtually everyone's feedback that has had the chance to hear it, is that DIY T2 it is the end-all amp. The difficulty in building is immense. It's as much art as it is an amp.


----------



## Mach3

KGSS according to Stax Mafia, is a decked out 007t with all the tube mod and CCS plus a better power supply.


----------



## KDS315

Mach3 said:


> KGSS according to Stax Mafia, is a decked out 007t with all the tube mod and CCS plus a better power supply.


Nope, KGSS IS “Solid State” hence the “SS” - different animal than hybrid amps like 007T. Guess you meant to say KGST which is “Single Triode”


----------



## Mach3

Yes thanks for the correction, it was a typo.


----------



## AudioThief

For 007 you need at least 450V output.. 727 amps are around minimum for enough volume headspace. More power = more headroom, which is good for sound quality.


----------



## CT007

Chefguru said:


> The carbon is a Mutiple (2-4x ?) more power than the standard kgsshv


I see, I see... There's pretty much zero spec info for the Mjolnir stuff(at the site), so I was definitely wondering about power differences. Still am, I guess. Maybe 500V for KGSSHV, and 1000V for Carbon? Or 450/1600? This info would definitely help for choosing.


----------



## Chefguru (Jul 19, 2022)

CT007 said:


> I see, I see... There's pretty much zero spec info for the Mjolnir stuff(at the site), so I was definitely wondering about power differences. Still am, I guess. Maybe 500V for KGSSHV, and 1000V for Carbon? Or 450/1600? This info would definitely help for choosing.


A quote from Kevin Gilmore himself regarding voltage swing goes on about how for dynamic amplifiers the same voltage swing at 1khz and 20khz is easy but for e-stats it is difficult, and that's actually the right way to think about the difference. The carbon is about 2x the kgsshv. BHSE is not as powerful but has other advantages to its sonic presentation given the tubes which is why people rank BHSE/Carbon as equal. Megatron and T2 are the more powerful tube amps. Unfortunately, no one is building megatrons. Mjolnir did for a little while but hasn't for few years now. Maybe we should petition to bring it back.

"450 v power supplies require 14ma of output current.
a carbon can easily do 18 to 20 ma
a kgsshv is limited to a max of about 9ma

400v power supplies require 12ma of output current
a BHSE will easily do this and more

350v power supplies requires 10.6ma of output current
Most stax amps (t1,717,727,007t...) are 350v power supplies and can only supply about 7ma"


----------



## Kiats

The Lambda Nova Classics and the Sigma have landed. Big shout out to @spritzer for his work on restoring these and for his endless patience to my questions.  

Now to take them out for a spin!


----------



## CT007

Chefguru said:


> A quote from Kevin Gilmore himself regarding voltage swing goes on about how for dynamic amplifiers the same voltage swing at 1khz and 20khz is easy but for e-stats it is difficult, and that's actually the right way to think about the difference. The carbon is about 2x the kgsshv. BHSE is not as powerful but has other advantages to its sonic presentation given the tubes which is why people rank BHSE/Carbon as equal. Megatron and T2 are the more powerful tube amps. Unfortunately, no one is building megatrons. Mjolnir did for a little while but hasn't for few years now. Maybe we should petition to bring it back.
> 
> "450 v power supplies require 14ma of output current.
> a carbon can easily do 18 to 20 ma
> ...


Wow.. I was not expecting that low of power. What a wild, industrial looking amp lol. 

Where does the Bottlehead Stat rank?


----------



## paradoxper

mulveling said:


> For your 007, pick any of KGSShv / Carbon / CC / T2 depending on budget and long term goals. All are a great match. But if you find yourself overthinking this, which is easy - you can start with "just" a KGSShv and do great - see how you like that, and whether the thought of "going further" excites you.
> 
> I haven't heard Mjolnir Carbon or CC, but the KGSShv Carbon gives better dynamics, detail, and bass slam over even the best KGSShv builds. My KGSShv Carbon was a tad bright for 009 and L700, but perfect for 007 Mk I. Eksonic Aeras is also definitely worth looking at in the CC price range. And the DIY T2 beats diminishing returns expectations, in case you decide to go "all the way". Headamp BHSE is also a superb all-around amp, but for 007 specifically, I'd go Carbon over that.
> 
> The modded Stax amps on offer by Mjolnir are very interesting, at a reasonable price point. But I'd still expect a KGSShv to be noticeably better for 007.


He's definitely overthinking in paralyzed fashion. He should go back through all the KGSSHV > Carbon > KGST posts on Head-Case and best parse what matches with his listening preference. He should really go with a Grounded Grid if he never plans to budget for a DIY T2.


----------



## CT007

paradoxper said:


> He's definitely overthinking


How does one over-think a multi-thousand dollar purchase?


----------



## paradoxper

CT007 said:


> How does one over-think a multi-thousand dollar purchase?


by not listening to their preference of sound.

Considering you struggle with brightness as context.


----------



## AudioThief

CT007 said:


> How does one over-think a multi-thousand dollar purchase?


Honestly if you listen to music at safe levels, 727 and the other solid state Stax offerings are enough. Of course stax mafia will tell you that the sound will be different with T2, Carbon, BHSE etc.. But the reality is unless you're ruining your hearing then stax amps are totally fine. I did not see any reason to get a third party amp for 007 mk1 ever.


----------



## bearFNF

CT007 said:


> How does one over-think a multi-thousand dollar purchase?


It happens, there is a point where due diligence in research before a purchase or decision, becomes Analysis Paralysis. This point is different for different people and will be viewed by outsiders as happening at different points in the process. It comes down to opinions and comfort levels in making the decision. Took me about a year and a half (or was it two?) and many trips to meets and shows before I pulled the trigger on my BHSE.


----------



## ardbeg1975

Chefguru said:


> Virtually everyone's feedback that has had the chance to hear it, is that DIY T2 it is the end-all amp. The difficulty in building is immense. It's as much art as it is an amp.


I agree. I own and enjoy the KGSSHV and listened to the T2, Aeras, BHSE, and the LTA Z10E at CanJam Chicago. T2 bested them all, wasn’t even close. I preferred the Aeras over the BHSE for sound signature and size (more manageable desktop footprint) but it was closer competition.


----------



## ardbeg1975

AudioThief said:


> Honestly if you listen to music at safe levels, 727 and the other solid state Stax offerings are enough. Of course stax mafia will tell you that the sound will be different with T2, Carbon, BHSE etc.. But the reality is unless you're ruining your hearing then stax amps are totally fine. I did not see any reason to get a third party amp for 007 mk1 ever.


I haven’t owned my Stax long enough to be a made man in said mafia but I don’t agree painful listening levels are the only time you hear noticeable sonic improvement moving up the tiers of energizers. I don’t listen at loud volumes at all but I hear for example a bass response difference between a 727 (which I’m now selling) and a KGSSHV.


----------



## efftee (Jul 20, 2022)

ardbeg1975 said:


> I agree. I own and enjoy the KGSSHV and listened to the T2, Aeras, BHSE, and the LTA Z10E at CanJam Chicago. T2 bested them all, wasn’t even close. I preferred the Aeras over the BHSE for sound signature and size (more manageable desktop footprint) but it was closer competition.


You are referring to the Kerry-Built T2 right? How do these compare against the Carbon CC?


----------



## droido256

AudioThief said:


> Honestly if you listen to music at safe levels, 727 and the other solid state Stax offerings are enough. Of course stax mafia will tell you that the sound will be different with T2, Carbon, BHSE etc.. But the reality is unless you're ruining your hearing then stax amps are totally fine. I did not see any reason to get a third party amp for 007 mk1 ever.


I can’t say much in response to this as I havnt tried 3rd party. Buuuuut with the L-300/L-700 on the  Srm 252, d-10 and 400, I honestly haven’t heard a better headphone yet. With such a balance of tonal qualities of various categories. For their price the Stax amps do a pretty darn good job to be bluntly honest. With what I’m hearing, I don’t see any need to pursue further.


----------



## padam (Jul 21, 2022)

CT007 said:


> What do you get going from KGSSHV to Carbon? Then Carbon to CC? Then from CC to DIY T2?
> 
> With Carbon/CC, I will essentially have more versatility/compatibility for other headphones, along with SQ boost?


Well, this is highly dependent on your perception of what it considered to be a 'good' sound.
And whether you simply accept whatever change is inserted into the system (this is what most people do, changing or mixing things up, enjoying a very wide range of headphones for what they are, irrespective of what little or big problems they might have).
The other method is trying to set up an absolute reference point, and criticizing everything that deviates from that in various ways. (An oversimplified version of this is just measuring and comparing them to a target, which itself carries a ton of variables).


The Carbon has much more refinement across to spectrum, with higher power, the technical ability increases.
What I mean by that is the level of clarity and detail level becomes really high, transients become even better defined, the midrange is a bit sweeter (not like tubes, but you do notice it) but the high notes are much more tamed, much more polite (despite remaining very extended)
So if you think harshness is 'bad', and you want to make your system 'more analogue' in general, you might like it with everything.

But, personally, I am not sure if I actually like this with every headphone. The 007 Mk1 in particular, where I expected the most according to other people's descriptions. And yes, the difference in clarity is clear, but also the change is character, which is now a bit anemic. Long said on one of his YT videos that there is a "hole" in the treble with the 007 Mk1 Carbon amp and there might be something to that. Maybe a BHSE which some people describe as a bit 'hard' and 'forward' sounding might be a better pairing as I also think the soundstage could be more spacious, for some reason this amp can sound very big with most of my Staxes, but here it gains precision instead of spacing.

And based upon that, I can't imagine this change in character would be the greatest thing with an Audeze CRBN either, where according to some people, treble seems to be a slight weakness (out of several).

What I expected was 'Armageddon' levels of aggression (without harshness).
But what I got was the opposite: the increase in dynamics comes out as more subtlety (in case of the 007 Mk1, even more refinement upon refinement). At least that's how I perceive it as of now, maybe I just need to get acquainted with it more.

I expected the SR-Omega to become more musical. But, again, what I perceive is extra refinement, unveiling an even higher level of technical ability, becoming a bit more analytical and relaxed. Great for some music, less for so other. This is where I expect a T2 to "own" a Carbon, keeping a much better balance between these two things.



Chefguru said:


> The carbon is a Mutiple (2-4x ?) more power than the standard kgsshv, and the translation is an improved soundstage, hardness and bass - but most notably smoother highs. The actual improvement to the sound maybe like 10%?
> It's clearly improved, and the difference is more noted with more demanding headphones (007/crbn being in the high end of that spectrum)


All of those three things are true, yet the overall perception that's not quite what I am hearing.
Not sure how much I would quantify it, but it's not 10%.
I would not definitely not claim that the difference is more noted with more demanding headphones. Every estat is demanding, they just react differently.
The change in character is perceivable with pretty much all of them.  And it's just as important as technicalities, they do add up and as I outlined, they can move in opposite directions.
And the biggest winner here surprisingly is Not an Omega, but the Lambda Pro. I also really like the Sigma Pro and the Gamma Pro, these love the Carbon (apart from just being warm as usual but with more clarity). All of these have a bass hump which in this controlled form has become a more refined version of a "meaty" sound. This way, I can just dial down the volume to a point, where the perception of dynamism is healthy. Much easier than trying to push it up with the Omegas to sort of wake them up (if you like to listen loud, the Omegas might be better, haven't taken out the SPL meter yet).

The Lambda Pro was the headphone which I wasn't sure out whether to love or hate. I was impressed by its generally balanced frequency response (not having huge jumps), defined transients (thanks to physical damping) but also bugged by it's brightness and treble all the time, and it's now basically gone (but still not becoming too subdued in the mix, maybe there is still a hint of V-shape in there, but not much).  Seems closer to the HE90 presentation than any of the Omegas (maybe the Sigma Pro has a bit more resemblance in some ways), grabbing you instantly, having that direct, yet smooth style of play with a good sense of dynamism.
This is not analytical, mechanical or synthetic, which is how I often heard the Lambda Pro being described.

So what has remained is one of the best-sounding Lambdas ever, if not best sounding Staxes ever in this configuration (pending upon what the NB version can do with this amp, again, it's qualities seem well-matched as I know it is a relative to the Lambda Pro the same way the Omega is a relative to the 007)

If I start to dissect this sound, I can start noticing the slightly wooly bass (maybe better without damping, but that might change other things, quantity seems right) the plasticky timbre, a slight wispiness still there, sometimes etc. etc.
But what it does is simply play music in a more simple and natural way. Directly, but not to the point of being harsh with plenty of detail. It can play hard and soft.

As much as I don't like the 009, it would have been interesting to hear it like this, as the bass punch was quite respectable with it, and the treble and brightness of the Lambda Pro did carry some sort of resemblance, but the bass volume seemed higher, which seems more natural and I also think there is more heft and weight to the sound in general, not as ethereal.

Maybe the key now would be to step it up to a more direct, punchy and aggressive source, but I am getting fed up with all this constant tweaking and settled with what I have for now. Carrying this amp is no fun, but I will try to gain a bit more knowledge.

It's not like either of the Omegas not being phenomenal, or the Carbon not being great, just not sure about the merging of those specific qualities.



*Update:* now I'm running the SR-007 Mk1 with a modified Harman EQ curve named Optimum Hifi (As I explained before, it might not even be the best one, there could be sample variation, different fittings on the head, etc. etc.) and yet it is better. Much better. Something just isn't quite Ok with the tone without it. Crossfeed on the DA11 is also on to make it more cohesive.
The Carbon is barely enough to drive the SR-007 Mk1 this way (I am running no attenuation on the amp and not far off 2V output on the source), which might explain why it didn't work at all before.
The SR-Omega would probably need a bit of correction as well, not nearly as much (so it would have more headroom), works better out of the box.

Taking off EQ does "free up" the sound, so the Lambda Pro still remains in a strong position.  Has more weight to the sound, maybe because of the physical damping but it still can be bright and trebly at times etc. nothing is ever going to be perfect.

It is very obvious that the Carbon has a different frequency response to the modified 727 especially in the highs, upper mids and lows, so even if one is unable to hear the benefits of power, it will still change the sound substantially.


----------



## mulveling

efftee said:


> You are referring to the Kerry-Built T2 right? How do these compare against the Carbon CC?


Nothing will compare with a T2. One listen and you'll know it.


----------



## ardbeg1975

mulveling said:


> Nothing will compare with a T2. One listen and you'll know it.


This.


----------



## CT007

There is only 1 Stax/estat store in USA, correct? Woo Audio in NYC, I believe it is. I wonder how many there are worldwide... maybe 20?


----------



## prtuc2

There is Audio46 in New York City as well.


----------



## efftee

mulveling said:


> Nothing will compare with a T2. One listen and you'll know it.





ardbeg1975 said:


> This.


Sorry, I think there's some miscommunication here. You said you listened to the T2 "at CanJam Chicago. T2 bested them all, wasn’t even close". And I am asking if you were referring to the original T2 or another DIY T2, such as the 'Kerry Built' T2, especially since you mentioned Aeras, which is also made by Eksonic. Probably is, just wanted to be sure.


----------



## BassicScience

CT007 said:


> There is only 1 Stax/estat store in USA, correct? Woo Audio in NYC, I believe it is. I wonder how many there are worldwide... maybe 20?


Do you mean a physical store where you can audition/purchase Stax headphones and/or other estats? If so, The Source AV in Torrance, CA is another. In addition to Stax, they also handle the DCA Voce.


----------



## ardbeg1975

efftee said:


> Sorry, I think there's some miscommunication here. You said you listened to the T2 "at CanJam Chicago. T2 bested them all, wasn’t even close". And I am asking if you were referring to the original T2 or another DIY T2, such as the 'Kerry Built' T2, especially since you mentioned Aeras, which is also made by Eksonic. Probably is, just wanted to be sure.


Yes, Kerry's Eksonic DIY T2.


----------



## CT007 (Jul 20, 2022)

BassicScience said:


> Do you mean a physical store where you can audition


Yep!  This is the ONLY reason I'd ever want to go to NYC. Maybe I'll go to LA, instead!

I would hate to go all the way to either of these stores, only to find out it's some cramped little shop, where most everything is jammed into shelves behind glass, with minimal hands-on testing available.


----------



## BassicScience

CT007 said:


> I would hate to go all the way to either of these stores, only to find out it's some cramped little shop, where most everything is jammed into shelves behind glass, with minimal hands-on testing available.


No worries on that front (see photo below of The Source AV's headphone listening space)...


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## ufospls2 (Jul 20, 2022)

Within North America, a lot of high end stereo shops sell Stax. I don't know the entire amount in terms of numbers, but it's quite a few (I can think of 5 within my city which isn't huge.) The Stax website doesn't list many of them at all. With that being said, there is a difference between being a dealer, and being a dealer that has the entire range of products in store for demo.


----------



## Chefguru

CT007 said:


> Yep!  This is the ONLY reason I'd ever want to go to NYC. Maybe I'll go to LA, instead!
> 
> I would hate to go all the way to either of these stores, only to find out it's some cramped little shop, where most everything is jammed into shelves behind glass, with minimal hands-on testing available.


Source AV is the real deal and they have a BHSE for testing.


----------



## CT007

*Dam*... That is more demo chairs than I've seen in all shops I've been to combined! BUT, much lower quality chairs. ;P WHICH store has a collaboration with a high end furniture store..?

All those LCD's are gonna make the floor crack


----------



## BassicScience

CT007 said:


> *Dam*... That is more demo chairs than I've seen in all shops I've been to combined! BUT, much lower quality chairs. ;P WHICH store has a collaboration with a high end furniture store..?
> 
> All those LCD's are gonna make the floor crack


The chairs are actually padded and pretty comfortable, IMO. Plus there are even a few more listening stations not pictured. Definitely a tremendous resource for headphone lovers!

I should mention that they also have a Woo estat amp (not sure the model, but it's in the photo) in addition to the BHSE. Finally, they have acquired an SR-X9000 for demo since that photo was taken.


----------



## ufospls2

BassicScience said:


> The chairs are actually padded and pretty comfortable, IMO. Plus there are even a few more listening stations not pictured. Definitely a tremendous resource for headphone lovers!
> 
> I should mention that they also have a Woo estat amp (not sure the model, but it's in the photo) in addition to the BHSE. Finally, they have acquired an SR-X9000 for demo since that photo was taken.


Thats a WES, gen 2 most likely.


----------



## paradoxper

mulveling said:


> Nothing will compare with a T2. One listen and you'll know it.


Almost. Cooter's 845 was very much inline with some better characteristic performance, the Circlotron was flat out better.

Who would have imagined T2's more feasible availability. Ha.


----------



## Chefguru

paradoxper said:


> Almost. Cooter's 845 was very much inline with some better characteristic performance, the Circlotron was flat out better.
> 
> Who would have imagined T2's more feasible availability. Ha.


I wish it wasn't so


----------



## paradoxper

Chefguru said:


> I wish it wasn't so


The concession of the DIY community dwindling.

Treasure Kevin Gilmore while he is still around.


----------



## VandyMan (Jul 21, 2022)

CT007 said:


> There is only 1 Stax/estat store in USA, correct? Woo Audio in NYC, I believe it is. I wonder how many there are worldwide... maybe 20?



Woo Audio sells STAX online and are based in NYC, but they do not have a retail store.


----------



## padam

Just got my SR007 Mk2 back from loan. To be more specific, it is a port modded 007 Mk2.0 version, works very well with the Carbon, much better than the standard KGSSHV - no EQ needed, only lowering the volume. Up to this point, I preferred the elegant, airy Mk1 every single time.
But in this setting with the Carbon, this has been reversed. I even prefer the smaller, more focused stage. The 007 magic like the focus, etc. still there.

All is well with the world - for now


----------



## Chefguru

paradoxper said:


> The concession of the DIY community dwindling.
> 
> Treasure Kevin Gilmore while he is still around.


Sad. I wrote something on this not long ago … FC never offered anything for sale right? I only remember Jude bribing him. At least we have Kerry and Birgir offering things for sale in a somewhat accessible way.


----------



## CT007 (Jul 21, 2022)

padam said:


> only lowering the volume


What does this mean? You're just saying Carbon is louder than HV, so the knob is at a diff place now?


padam said:


> I even prefer the smaller, more focused stage


Mostly a difference from the headphone version, not the amp? How small is small here, compared to a given dynamic/planar? HD660 size? HE6? Mobius? DT880? Larger than L300?


----------



## padam

CT007 said:


> What does this mean? You're just saying Carbon is louder than HV, so the knob is at a diff place now?
> 
> Mostly a difference from the headphone version, not the amp? How small is small here, compared to a given dynamic/planar? HD660 size? HE6? Mobius? DT880? Larger than L300?


No, as I wrote before, the Carbon is much cleaner but warmer (having more in the deep bass as well as tamed-down treble), and the bass-heavy character becomes more apparent as the volume goes up. So I am more comfortable listening at a lower volume to reduce this as the sound still has clarity and punch. If I do this on a lesser amp, the sound simply becomes weak and unenjoyable.
I was even thinking of reversing the port mod, might be more natural in the deep bass, but then I would have even bigger hump to deal with in the mid-bass.
I am still finding it bass-heavy on well-recorded music, so the Lambda Pro complements it nicely (for example, Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon just plain better I think, more balanced and powerful) where the opposite can happen. Even though this amp brings it down a lot, it can still be too thin and bright, it's just the Lambda Pro's character. Or I can start fiddling with the EQ on the Mk2 as well in the bass region, etc.

The Mk1 version should be more balanced but in this configuration it is missing liveliness from the sound (whether I am listening at a low or high volume)
So a really a case of small differences making a big difference in overall character at this level.

As for the stage I am not too bothered, as long as it is not claustrophobic and with the Carbon it is not like that at all. The Mk1 is wider and more expansive sounding, but in this configuration, it might not have a nice balance in all dimensions, it has potential for more, just not with this amp (and/or source).

What I also observed with this level of amplification that the Stax headphones in general have so much clarity, that they can "get away" with quite a bit of tonal mismatch, as long as I don't find it annoying (by being too wispy, harsh dry, analytical or lifeless) I can get used to it rather well.
For example, the 007 plays a particular instrument in a "correct" way (meaning I can hear how clean its transients are or how nice the tone is in that small part of the music) and the brain just fills in the rest.
Casing point is the Sigma Pro, where it is obvious that the bass is booming no matter how well the Carbon can control it and giving much more clarity, it would probably still need a big dose of EQ. But, as I wrote before about this headphone, after a few minutes I just pick up that sound and enjoy it quite well (although I think it can reach a higher level after more tweaks). Flawed, but very organic and enjoyable and the Carbon is definitely recommended for it.


----------



## BenF

Chefguru said:


> Source AV is the real deal and they have a BHSE for testing.


You can also audition Staxes and other electrostats with BHSE at HeadAmp - after all, Justin builds them.

You can call Justin and arrange a visit. He is a really nice guy, pleasure doing business with him.
https://www.headamp.com/


----------



## CT007

The world suddenly just got a whole lot bigger for me o_o Finally, a vacation trip worth taking!!


----------



## hifixman (Jul 22, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> Almost. Cooter's 845 was very much inline with some better characteristic performance, the Circlotron was flat out better.
> 
> Who would have imagined T2's more feasible availability. Ha.



I feel Shanghai Sr system might have better clarify and high extension better suited for Classical.

Viva STX might has slightly better image, clarity, transparency and tonality.

Aperio Warwick may be more accurate with also better clarity and purity.

HE-1 might be more analogue and true to life with more textured bass

Woo 3se has better low extension, BHSE better mids and vocal.

Yet T2 is the giant killer and contender to Shangri-la and HE 1 level.


----------



## hifixman

ardbeg1975 said:


> Yes, Kerry's Eksonic DIY T2.


I'm told no original T2 is functional due to some innate technical issue.


----------



## padam

hifixman said:


> I'm told no original T2 is functional due to some innate technical issue.


You probably misunderstood what was said. I'm guessing it was something like: no original SRM-T2 is_ 'fully' functional, _since compared to the modern clone, it did not run at full power, there was more noise in the circuit resulting in some hum, and there are other issues like undersized power transformers and very bad heat management.
But, despite all this, most of them are still alive and well, and despite being destined to fail, I only saw a few faulty ones (which might have been rescued by now, who knows).


----------



## Mach3

Original T2 aka SRM-T2, tight confined space trapping all the lovely heat and old component totally out of spec by now.
Also some component are under value so all in all the unit is doom to fail.


----------



## paradoxper

hifixman said:


> I feel Shanghai Sr system might have better clarify and high extension better suited for Classical.
> 
> Viva STX might has slightly better image, clarity, transparency and tonality.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you are speculating.

I've heard BHSE, 3ES, Liquid Lightning, Electra, DIY T2, Carbon, Circlotron, Megatron, HE1, SGL many which were under direct comparison.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Jul 22, 2022)

As with all things, I don't really believe in a universal "best", as preferences and pairings are such high factors. I will say the T2 is the best I've heard and by a good margin. But the most impressive thing easily, is how well it synergizes with all stats. I think it's a pretty big deal, because there's so large of a "flavor" and presentation difference across all of the top stats out there. The amps I've used that bode well with the 009, don't necessarily do so for the 009, in example. So if you have a good amount of stats, it makes finding the right amp really challenging.

Everything I've put through the T2 sounds immaculate with amazing synergy. The 007 MK1 and SGL Sr. in particular had incredible boosts in performance over the BHSE and Aeras.

The one thing I would say is, if I only had easier to drive stats such as the HE60 and 009, I probably wouldn't spring for the T2. Of course they sound great, but there's less of a jump between it and say an amp at the BHSE's level.


----------



## hifixman (Jul 22, 2022)

paradoxper said:


> Perhaps you are speculating.
> 
> I've heard BHSE, 3ES, Liquid Lightning, Electra, DIY T2, Carbon, Circlotron, Megatron, HE1, SGL many which were under direct comparison.


I am owner of a few mentioned thanks just personal opinion as each of Amps have its forte to be recognized, never meaning to negate T2 because I bought it myself.


----------



## Mach3

paradoxper said:


> Perhaps you are speculating.
> 
> I've heard BHSE, 3ES, Liquid Lightning, Electra, DIY T2, Carbon, Circlotron, Megatron, HE1, SGL many which were under direct comparison.


How the DIY T2 vs the super rare Circlotron?


----------



## Gazza

Confirmed: My SR-009 drivers need to be replaced. The technician took it apart and re-soldered the connection but that didn't fix the lower volume issue with the driver. Ah well, a new pair of drivers is the solution.


----------



## lupoal

Hi,

with a srm-006ts I have some doubts the volume potentiometer is at its end of life... and seems no original spare parts are available since long time 

I've read somewhere about use of TDK pot instead but no detailed info... it's a pitty to trought this energizer in the rubbish just because of a pot

any suggestion? any help?
thanks in advance


----------



## bearFNF

lupoal said:


> Hi,
> 
> with a srm-006ts I have some doubts the volume potentiometer is at its end of life... and seems no original spare parts are available since long time
> 
> ...


You might send Spritzer at Mjolnir-Audio.com an email and see if he has the part.


----------



## oneguy

The parts to reshell my L700 into an ES Labs Sigma L700 arrived today.




The build is pretty straight forward. No instructions were included but I managed. You will need to unsolder and re-solder the wires to get the wires in the housing. 



I’d recommend to those that do this to put cardboard or tape at a minimum over the side of the driver without the screen when building this. It will offer a little piece of mind as you assemble everything. 



To attach the ear pads you’ll need to cut the prongs off of the stock ear pads. I recommend using flush cut diagonal wire cutters. Cut the prongs low them gently move the leather away from the prongs and cut them flush to the plastic. 




Adhesive is used to secure the pads to the housing. The kit comes with 2 or 3 pair but be warned they are difficult to get black adhesive to separate from the clear plastic adhesive protector. The Stax ones I bought yesterday were slightly better since they were paper on both sides. 

Overall fit at and finish was pretty good. 



The housing is 3-D printed and feels less sturdy than the Stax Sigma. Also I wish the hole to secure the cables strain reliefs to the housing was slightly smaller. I’ll have to some up with something to secure them better.


----------



## KDS315

Damping material??


----------



## oneguy

As supplied in the kit:


Looks to be some type of cloth (maybe polyester?) anda what appears to be 4 thin sheets of mineral wool.


----------



## lupoal

bearFNF said:


> You might send Spritzer at Mjolnir-Audio.com an email and see if he has the part.


thank you 

any DIY solution with alternative pot or dealer in european area? (in the last period custom fee became crazy expensive here in Italy)


----------



## Sandro Sena

oneguy said:


>


when possible, please let us know how it sounds. Thank you.


----------



## Chefguru

oneguy said:


> The parts to reshell my L700 into an ES Labs Sigma L700 arrived today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I assume the signature is pretty different?


----------



## dynavit

lupoal said:


> thank you
> 
> any DIY solution with alternative pot or dealer in european area? (in the last period custom fee became crazy expensive here in Italy)


Hi, you could ask Sören Schulze in Germany : https://www.inexxon.com/
He is very helpfull and has realistic prices.


----------



## Sandro Sena (Jul 29, 2022)

oneguy said:


> The build is pretty straight forward. No instructions were included but I managed. You will need to unsolder and re-solder the wires to get the wires in the housing.


oneguy, I plan to import a Sigma housing from ES Labs soon to do exactly the same procedure, let me ask: did you re-solder the wires with the polarity reversed or did you keep it normal? it seems there is no consensus on how it should be done


----------



## oneguy

Chefguru said:


> I assume the signature is pretty different?


I would categorize it as the same fingerprint but with different emphasis. I need some time to listen to them without my son watching TV in the background to do a more thoughtful evaluation. I should be able to do that today. Also, after talking with Benson last night apparently where I thought the yellow foam pieces go isn’t actually where they are intended to go. I will open the housing up today and reposition them. They are meant for sound signature tuning so what I heard last night isn’t likely what was intended.



Sandro Sena said:


> oneguy, I plan to import a Sigma housing from ES Labs soon to do exactly the same procedure, let me ask: did you re-solder the wires with the polarity reversed or did you keep it normal? it seems there is no consensus on how it should be done


I kept them in the original polarity. Not that it would have changed my decision on the soldering but I didn’t realize the driver was meant to face the opposite direction (metal screen away from cavity interior) until after I soldered it.


----------



## oneguy

Sigma L700 vs Sigma Pro

-More background sounds present themselves with the the L700 version but some this can present itself as being less airy, or maybe veiled
-The Sigma Pro is more speaker like. The sound has the impression of coming from in front of you. This is likely due to the fact that your ear is actually inside the cavity with the Sigma Pro and can receive sounds from the driver directly where as with the L700 version your ear is not inside the cavity.
-L700 version has less sparkle than the Sigma Pro

Sigma L700 vs Stock L700

-More diffuse sound than the original L700
-Upper mids seem to have taken a hit, probably due to having to reflect the sound to get to ear opening
-Bass has picked up considerably. The cavity and the good seal allows bass to resonate better and pickup weight. The Sigma Pro doesn’t seal or maybe it may receive a bump as well.
-The Sigma L700 has a more encompassing sound vs the side of your head the the stock L700’s driver orientation affords

-Both Sigmas require the same level on the volume control which is significantly higher than where the stock L700 requires


----------



## lupoal

@dynavit 

thank you


----------



## KDS315

lupoal said:


> @dynavit
> 
> thank you


Another source who does explicitely potentiomenet overhauls is Dominik Stritt at http://stritt-audio.de/ in Germany; he has the Pot service listed in his price list: http://stritt-audio.de/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/20220130_Preisliste_Driver.pdf (not cheap: EUR90-160 depending on type)


----------



## kevin gilmore

in all of my history i have never seen a volume pot die unless seriously abused.
what you may think is a bad pot could actually be bad plate resistors, way more common on 06t amplifiers.
the dual shaft pots are very hard to source.


----------



## lupoal

kevin gilmore said:


> in all of my history i have never seen a volume pot die unless seriously abused.
> what you may think is a bad pot could actually be bad plate resistors, way more common on 06t amplifiers.
> the dual shaft pots are very hard to source.


do you  mean, talking about bad plate resistors, something like broken resistor easily replaceable with some DIY? Or something more serious?
I’m searching for picture about that to try to have a more precise idea… without success


----------



## KDS315

Just describe why you think your Pot(entiometer) is defective…makes it much easier to find out if you describe the symptoms!


----------



## lupoal

KDS315 said:


> Another source who does explicitely potentiomenet overhauls is Dominik Stritt at http://stritt-audio.de/ in Germany; he has the Pot service listed in his price list: http://stritt-audio.de/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/20220130_Preisliste_Driver.pdf (not cheap: EUR90-160 depending on type)


I like his CCS mod, it is an upgrade i was thinking about… not to difficult and reversibile

the funny point? I was in Friburg 10 days ago for business


----------



## mulveling (Jul 31, 2022)

SR-009 on T2 with vinyl is THE thing. I had almost forgotten. Finally got my act together with the headphone turntable setup, and it all came back. Now I remember - pure sonic magic. Even on a very good DAC most digital material has a sense of strained / forced-ness to me (note: my digital collection is 44.1 FLACs, I realize DSD is another ballgame). Versus pure ease and musical flow when you drop a good stylus. Very apparent on a T2, which itself is the latter (pure liquid organic flow). Amazing to think there's 1200x gain from the cartridge signal to phono stage, then times another 1000x gain on a T2 (and most electrostatic maps for that matter). That's 1.2 MILLION x total gain, all through active stages. How does this even work AT ALL, much less so amazingly well (noise floor very low, almost dead-quiet - actually this is quieter than my main 2ch rig, dammit). My cobbled together headphone turntable, made from 2nds / 3rds / 4ths from the main rig:

SOTA Nova V vacuum turntable (Koa wood!)
Benz PP-1 (T9) discrete phono stage (62dB) w/ SBooster PSU - I really like it when affordable gear like this sounds so sweet
Koetsu Onyx, version unknown - Old 1980s Musashino Lab short body, rebuilt by Koetsu with original body and samarium-cobalt (?) magnets
Fidelity Research FR64fx tonearm - 40 years old now. Koetsus (and most MC cartridges) love it.
Every time I put my headphone turntable setup into stasis (for...reasons), I absolutely regret it next time I remember what I was missing. Dammit, don't do that again future Mike. This setup absolutely holds up well against the 6-figure 2ch Tannoy / vinyl setup on the other side of this room. It's a blessing to hear their 2 different perspectives, each at this level.

Still need to do some more fine adjustments, continue cleaning the minor dust accumulation off my poor SOTA (look at the dirty vacuum platter lip, ugh), experiment with some more gear swaps to see if it can be taken either further.

Vinyl with 009 and T2. That's it.


----------



## urs

Mulveling

VERY nice Analogue Set-Up indeed - *and most worthy for a STAX*  

regards
Urs

Love your TT !!


----------



## Mach3

Kerry T2 is amazing, but my god that tt, the wood finish is so pleasing to the eye.


----------



## number1sixerfan

It really doesn't matter which stat you put through the T2, they each seem to sound their best ever through it. The 007 in particular has just scaled so incredibly. I use to pick it up every now and then prior to this and it's pretty much become a daily driver now.


----------



## CopperFox

Is there some place where one would find information on dimensions of various Stax earpads?

Reason I'm asking is interest in trying them on other (non-Stax) headphones.


----------



## SolarCetacean

Earpad dimensions aren't in the official specs, only Stax model compatibility, and I couldn't find any community repository of that info either. In the X9000 thread, rpaltaufstax posted a comparison of the dimensions of the 009S earpads and the X9000 earpads: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-x9000.959852/post-17092086

You're probably not interested in the rectangular Lambda-style earpads, but I measured the earpads on my SR-L700mk2 and the vertical outer height is ~12.4 cm, the height of the ear opening is ~8.5 cm (max), the outer front-to-back length is ~8.4 cm, and the front-to-back length of the ear opening is ~4 cm. The L700mk2 pads have mounting pins on the underside that are meant to slot into matching holes on the L700's chassis. If you're putting those pads on other headphones, you'll likely need to snip off those pins.


----------



## CopperFox

SolarCetacean said:


> Earpad dimensions aren't in the official specs, only Stax model compatibility, and I couldn't find any community repository of that info either. In the X9000 thread, rpaltaufstax posted a comparison of the dimensions of the 009S earpads and the X9000 earpads: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-x9000.959852/post-17092086
> 
> You're probably not interested in the rectangular Lambda-style earpads, but I measured the earpads on my SR-L700mk2 and the vertical outer height is ~12.4 cm, the height of the ear opening is ~8.5 cm (max), the outer front-to-back length is ~8.4 cm, and the front-to-back length of the ear opening is ~4 cm. The L700mk2 pads have mounting pins on the underside that are meant to slot into matching holes on the L700's chassis. If you're putting those pads on other headphones, you'll likely need to snip off those pins.



Actually the large rectangular pads are the ones I'm interested in, so thanks for the measurements.

Judging by photos the EP-507 pads which are used on SR-407, SR-507 and SR-404 are larger still. Anyone got measures of those?


----------



## oneguy (Aug 13, 2022)

@CopperFox
SR-507-
7 x 11.5 outside
3.7 x 7.2 opening
1.6 inner depth

SR-404-
8 x 12 outside
4 x 8.2 opening
2.1 inner depth

All numbers in cm


----------



## SolarCetacean

CopperFox said:


> Actually the large rectangular pads are the ones I'm interested in, so thanks for the measurements.
> 
> Judging by photos the EP-507 pads which are used on SR-407, SR-507 and SR-404 are larger still. Anyone got measures of those?


Glad I could help, but what sort of non-Stax headphones would the Lambda pads fit on?


----------



## CopperFox

SolarCetacean said:


> Glad I could help, but what sort of non-Stax headphones would the Lambda pads fit on?



Well, there have been many headphones with rectangular casings lately, such as ones with AMT or ribbon drivers and diy e-stats as well.


----------



## Precaud

Not sure if this is the right forum/thread to post this, but I just completed these detailed mods for the SRD-7 adaptor:
Transforming the Stax SRD-7
Comments/questions welcome.


----------



## Kento6395

Hi friend

I'm new to Stax , now I have L700MK2 Unbalanced sound may be caused by small dust entering the driver. 

And now I'd like some advice to bring the sound back to balance.

Thank you so much


----------



## Sandro Sena

Kento6395 said:


> Hi friend
> 
> I'm new to Stax , now I have L700MK2 Unbalanced sound may be caused by small dust entering the driver.
> 
> ...


Hi Kento,

the first thing to do is to investigate if the problem is really in your Stax headphone, because most of the times, the energizer is the problem, mainly if it is a tubed energizer, which is your case, according to what I read in your signature (Woo GES). To do this, of course, you must have another Stax headphone. If the headphone is really the problem, there are several possible causes and different corresponding fixes.


----------



## AudioThief

Kento6395 said:


> Hi friend
> 
> I'm new to Stax , now I have L700MK2 Unbalanced sound may be caused by small dust entering the driver.
> 
> ...


This is a known issue, I got my L500 replaced for this reason. You need to get in contact with the seller. If you bought it used... I don't know what your options are, I would get in touch with Stax USA or something.


----------



## oneguy

@Kento6395 are these a new pair? Typically, if an estat is going to fail it will do so early on. Used ones are pretty reliable unless someone physically damaged them. Of the close to 15 estats I’ve owned, only 2 had driver issues and they were both purchased new.


----------



## Kento6395

Sandro Sena said:


> Hi Kento,
> 
> the first thing to do is to investigate if the problem is really in your Stax headphone, because most of the times, the energizer is the problem, mainly if it is a tubed energizer, which is your case, according to what I read in your signature (Woo GES). To do this, of course, you must have another Stax headphone. If the headphone is really the problem, there are several possible causes and different corresponding fixes.


Thank,sir
I'm pretty sure the problem isn't with the tube amp, luckily I have a 353XBK So I did a test adjusting the volume knob and it worked, I just turned the white a little more and the sound on both sides was equal to normal.


----------



## Kento6395

oneguy said:


> @Kento6395 are these a new pair? Typically, if an estat is going to fail it will do so early on. Used ones are pretty reliable unless someone physically damaged them. Of the close to 15 estats I’ve owned, only 2 had driver issues and they were both purchased new.


i bought second hand from Reddit, actually it works fine just i just noticed the sound slightly disparity, i searched the threads and found that it might be due to dust, and maybe it's because of the room. My bed is often dusty. I have now ordered a cover for my headphones. , and about the sound is not equal I tried adjusting the volume to the right a little louder than before, now the sound is the same as usual.

Thank you so much,sir


----------



## Kento6395

AudioThief said:


> This is a known issue, I got my L500 replaced for this reason. You need to get in contact with the seller. If you bought it used... I don't know what your options are, I would get in touch with Stax USA or something.


I have fixed that problem now.

Thank you very much for the advice👍🙏


----------



## Craylock

KDS315 said:


> The STAX engineers working on such estats headphones over decades now are seemingly all kretins I would guess from your findings - right?? I’m sooo happy to have such a genius here now!!


Yeah. We all know the DIY-modding community has contributed Absolutely Nothing at all to the development of Head Fi. Everybody knows Alpha Dogs, ZMF Ori, Spritzer's port-mod of SR 007.2/A, and the SRD-mod of HD800 are to low in the hierarchical pyramid to hold value. Just like Tyll Herzen. he didn't get rich on what he did so he didn't contribute! I am glad we have such a jenijus as you, KDS315, to stop this intrusion into the godly dogma of headphonery. The user/member Thinker is clearly a blasphemer, as are all thinkers


----------



## thinker

Craylock said:


> Yeah. We all know the DIY-modding community has contributed Absolutely Nothing at all to the development of Head Fi. Everybody knows Alpha Dogs, ZMF Ori, Spritzer's port-mod of SR 007.2/A, and the SRD-mod of HD800 are to low in the hierarchical pyramid to hold value. Just like Tyll Herzen. he didn't get rich on what he did so he didn't contribute! I am glad we have such a jenijus as you, KDS315, to stop this intrusion into the godly dogma of headphonery. The user/member Thinker is clearly a blasphemer, as are all thinkers


Latest mod version here with new damping materials. If you find a better sounding Stax phone let me know


----------



## NOMOS (Aug 21, 2022)

I think my 009S probably won't sound much worse as the 009/007 Mod Version ,….

I'm just kidding 😉


----------



## Mach3

thinker said:


> Latest mod version here with new damping materials. If you find a better sounding Stax phone let me know


So the mod just requires superglue on that part of the headband. JK
Kind to share what you did and some measure charts of the result thanks.


----------



## ufospls2

Shouldn't be too long now....excited!


----------



## mulveling

ufospls2 said:


> Shouldn't be too long now....excited!


Wow! Love that new Eksonic logo. You should be excited


----------



## ufospls2

mulveling said:


> Wow! Love that new Eksonic logo. You should be excited


Yeah I asked Kerry if he might be interested in doing something similar to the Aeras but with the T2, in place of the "T2" above the volume control. I think it looks great


----------



## bigjako

Is there any chance there will be a T2 at CanJam SoCal?


----------



## number1sixerfan

ufospls2 said:


> Shouldn't be too long now....excited!



This looks awesome. Subtle, but very clean looking. And the wait is totally worth it, you're almost there!


----------



## Kerry

bigjako said:


> Is there any chance there will be a T2 at CanJam SoCal?


We're not going to be in SoCal this year.  Very busy finalizing the shop in Greece.

We'll be back on the CanJam tour shortly


----------



## bigjako (Aug 26, 2022)

Kerry said:


> We'll be back on the CanJam tour shortly


Thanks Kerry, I can’t wait to hear a T2. Hopefully you’ll be at SoCal next year, otherwise I’m gonna have to fly to Chicago or NYC. 

Got a nice little treat in the mail today.  An early NB Sigma to go with my ES 404 Sigma.  Loving it so far.


----------



## hifixman

bigjako said:


> Thanks Kerry, I can’t wait to hear a T2. Hopefully you’ll be at SoCal next year, otherwise I’m gonna have to fly to Chicago or NYC.
> 
> Got a nice little treat in the mail today.  An early NB Sigma to go with my ES 404 Sigma.  Loving it so far.


What is that amp? Any more pics of that tube amp? Looks interesting


----------



## bigjako

hifixman said:


> What is that amp? Any more pics of that tube amp? Looks interesting


It's an Eddie Current Electra.  Rather than post some pics, you're better off going to the thread.


----------



## Kiats

bigjako said:


> Thanks Kerry, I can’t wait to hear a T2. Hopefully you’ll be at SoCal next year, otherwise I’m gonna have to fly to Chicago or NYC.
> 
> Got a nice little treat in the mail today.  An early NB Sigma to go with my ES 404 Sigma.  Loving it so far.


Yeah… the Sigmas are just special.


----------



## oneguy

Kiats said:


> Yeah… the Sigmas are just special.


+1


----------



## Craylock

thinker said:


> Latest mod version here with new damping materials. If you find a better sounding Stax phone let me know


Unsure if I want to do anything like this myself, but listening to 007mk1 now on BH, and awaiting a 507/700-hybrid I hope will sound good. A friend did use your method with great success, he claimed, and I believe him. Leaving the dust cover intact, but otherwise following your instructions. I bet he would be as interested as I am in hearing more about your latest endeavors, so please! We await further information!-)


----------



## oneguy

Craylock said:


> Unsure if I want to do anything like this myself, but listening to 007mk1 now on BH, and awaiting a 507/700-hybrid I hope will sound good. A friend did use your method with great success, he claimed, and I believe him. Leaving the dust cover intact, but otherwise following your instructions. I bet he would be as interested as I am in hearing more about your latest endeavors, so please! We await further information!-)


700 driver in a 507 frame or 507 driver in the 700 frame?


----------



## Kiats

bigjako said:


> Thanks Kerry, I can’t wait to hear a T2. Hopefully you’ll be at SoCal next year, otherwise I’m gonna have to fly to Chicago or NYC.
> 
> Got a nice little treat in the mail today.  An early NB Sigma to go with my ES 404 Sigma.  Loving it so far.


All this talk about the Sigmas has me back on the Sigma Pro again.  I was on the ES-Sigma (404 drivers) for a few days last week. 

Quick question for those with the older Stax earspeakers: no issues hanging the earspeakers by the headband padding like this? I do worry of course about hanging on the plastic arc as they seem rather fragile and I can imagine tensile strength would go after a while.


----------



## bigjako (Aug 28, 2022)

Kiats said:


> Quick question for those with the older Stax earspeakers: no issues hanging the earspeakers by the headband padding like this? I do worry of course about hanging on the plastic arc as they seem rather fragile and I can imagine tensile strength would go after a while.


the NB Sigmas have reminded my why I love NB Lambdas so much and has been my favorite headphone since I got them.  I don’t need two sigmas and have listed the 404 Sigmas for sale because the NBs just agree with me a little more (much more mid-focused, sweeter than the 404, etc.). 

As for your question it’s a good one and I’d love to hear others thoughts.  I think best practice is to NOT do what i do and rest the Plastic, not the band.  Neither feel right to me, tbh and I can replace a headband easier or cheaper than a fraMe so I so what I do.

Interestingly, these NB Sigmas came with their own purpose built stand.  I’d never seen this before and even after searching it I still don’t see any blue versions so I think the brown fuzz burnt off mine. 



Honestly a perfect stand because neither the band nor the plastic frame touched it and there are carve outs for the cable connector area. Came with original manual too, I love those little bits.


----------



## Kiats

bigjako said:


> the NB Sigmas have reminded my why I love NB Lambdas so much and has been my favorite headphone since I got them.  I don’t need two sigmas and have listed the 404 Sigmas for sale because the NBs just agree with me a little more (much more mid-focused, sweeter than the 404, etc.).
> 
> As for your question it’s a good one and I’d love to hear others thoughts.  I think best practice is to NOT do what i do and rest the Plastic, not the band.  Neither feel right to me, tbh and I can replace a headband easier or cheaper than a fraMe so I so what I do.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing. I am curious: is NB another company that makes replicas of Sigma?


----------



## bigjako

Kiats said:


> Thanks for sharing. I am curious: is NB another company that makes replicas of Sigma?


no, NB just means Normal Bias (230v instead of 580v), 6 pin instead of 5 pin.  These are Stax products pre-1980 or so.  

I listened to the ES 404 Sigmas out of the Pro bias tap and the Stax NBs out of the Normal on both my Electra and 006t and the volume was near identical, which may only be interesting to me but it was nice to have both connected and be able to switch between.


----------



## oneguy

bigjako said:


> the NB Sigmas have reminded my why I love NB Lambdas so much and has been my favorite headphone since I got them.  I don’t need two sigmas and have listed the 404 Sigmas for sale because the NBs just agree with me a little more (much more mid-focused, sweeter than the 404, etc.).
> 
> As for your question it’s a good one and I’d love to hear others thoughts.  I think best practice is to NOT do what i do and rest the Plastic, not the band.  Neither feel right to me, tbh and I can replace a headband easier or cheaper than a fraMe so I so what I do.
> 
> ...


I wish I had the original stand for my Sigmas but the Stax HPS-1does a good job. IMO the balance of the Sigmas requires something with a vertical support in the center like the original stand it came with or the HPS-1. 

The ES-Sigma L700 doesn’t have the same earcup balance woes so a wider range of headphone stands are acceptable.



Kiats said:


> All this talk about the Sigmas has me back on the Sigma Pro again.  I was on the ES-Sigma (404 drivers) for a few days last week.
> 
> Quick question for those with the older Stax earspeakers: no issues hanging the earspeakers by the headband padding like this? I do worry of course about hanging on the plastic arc as they seem rather fragile and I can imagine tensile strength would go after a while.



All my headphones are strap hangers, not frame hangers.


----------



## Craylock

oneguy said:


> 700 driver in a 507 frame or 507 driver in the 700 frame?


507 in 700. The claim is a forward 700 meeting a 507 with soundstage.


----------



## Kiats

bigjako said:


> no, NB just means Normal Bias (230v instead of 580v), 6 pin instead of 5 pin.  These are Stax products pre-1980 or so.
> 
> I listened to the ES 404 Sigmas out of the Pro bias tap and the Stax NBs out of the Normal on both my Electra and 006t and the volume was near identical, which may only be interesting to me but it was nice to have both connected and be able to switch between.


Ah OK! Oooh… Yes, I have read about normal bias Sigma being produced from 1977… Not seen any of them around though. From your description, it seems that the Sigma Pros are tuned similarly. At least the one which I have. Which is why I likely will keep both the Sigma and the ES-Sigma (404 drivers) for different tuning.


----------



## Kiats

Been listening to the normal bias SR-X Mk3, courtesy of @spritzer . Gosh! This pair of earspeakers are so sweet! And the mids… 😱

Now seriously pondering the SR-3 and SR-4 that I spy on Mjolnir Audio… If this is what normal bias has to offer.


----------



## DougD

Kiats said:


> Quick question for those with the older Stax earspeakers: no issues hanging the earspeakers by the headband padding like this? I do worry of course about hanging on the plastic arc as they seem rather fragile and I can imagine tensile strength would go after a while.


I have 3 lambdas, I handle them very carefully ... almost always with two hands ... in recognition of their age, and hang them by the leather strap or just lay them on their side, on a foam pad. Never hang them by the frame. 

The leather straps on all three are in good condition. I got them from Spitzer a few years ago, he didn't say but from the look of them I think he may have replaced the straps.


----------



## oneguy

Craylock said:


> 507 in 700. The claim is a forward 700 meeting a 507 with soundstage.


It’s nice to see the 507 getting some love. I always thought they were given a bad reputation.


----------



## capetownwatches (Aug 29, 2022)

Greetings All,

I'm sure this must have been asked and answered somewhere back in the thousands of prior thread pages, but I've not managed to get any solid info yet.

I have a SRM-353X and L-500 Mk1 rig that I'm very satisfied with.
I have used both balanced and single-ended inputs with a variety of sources and frankly enjoy both.

I seem to recall reading that the consensus was that this amp sounds better using SE inputs.
Is there a technical reason for this, or is it simply anecdotal?


----------



## LostHisMarbles (Aug 31, 2022)

Need some advice if any of you folks are up to it;

Got me an SR-007, sn 7xxxx, in exceptional condition, original metal case that i've been trying to sell locally without any luck.
(too much money for Greek standards, plus one buffoon that actually insulted me! How's that..)

Give me a nice price to ask for it online? Don't include platform fees or shipping in it.
Not too much, not too little, some ballpark within which both i and prospective buyer would be happy with? Don't know where to ask honestly.
My thanks in advance.


----------



## oneguy

LostHisMarbles said:


> Need some advice if any of you folks are up to it;
> 
> Got me an SR-007, sn 7xxxx, in exceptional condition, original metal case that i've been trying to sell locally without any luck.
> (too much money for Greek standards, plus one buffoon that actually insulted me! How's that..)
> ...


Easiest thing to do would be go here:

https://devbrada.com/classifieds/

and search for what they have been listed at recently.


----------



## bigjako

LostHisMarbles said:


> Need some advice if any of you folks are up to it;
> Got me an SR-007, sn 7xxxx, in exceptional condition, original metal case that i've been trying to sell locally without any luck.
> Give me a nice price to ask for it online? Don't include platform fees or shipping in it.


$1500 and you'll have a buyer in a day who thinks it's worth the hassle and risk of shipping an electrostatic from Greece. Or as a backup for when theirs (mine) dies.  That assumes it is indeed a Mk1. 

I came here to update on my Normal Bias Sigma, which I got last week and have been listening to on an Eddie Current Electra amp with some rolled tubes.  As intimated above, the 007 mk1 is my most precious earspeaker but the combo of the NB Sigma with the Electra is my favorite so far and I just can't stop listening to it.  I keep coming back to it, all week.  It's electrostatic, it's Sfax-sounding but also warm, amber gooey too.  I know I'm missing some details, but then some details act like explosions on the sides of buildings if you know what I mean.  A very structured but 3d stage.  I'm going to listen to them for the next week or so (probably exclusively) and then go back to the  mk1.  They're so similar yet different, all I can compare it to is a yin yang symbol.  A liquid amber yin yang.  

The Electra's made me so happy, made me sell off the Carbon even, that I'm trying to get a dynamic EC amp, like a Studio B.  My impression is that EC amps love detail and stage  without losing tubeyness.  It works so well for electrostatics, I want to hear how it sounds with a bio-cellulose ZMF, too.


----------



## LostHisMarbles

@oneguy age huh.. didn't even know of that website, i really appreciate it 

@bigjako much obliged man; will probably be 'confining' it to within the EU, but still helps to have some idea.
I like the J. Strummer pic by the way, was young back then too, haha.


----------



## BoyNamedSue

@bigjako this whole time i thought that was your real photo, and saw you as the coolest looking headfier! I'm sure the real you looks cool too!


----------



## LostHisMarbles

BoyNamedSue said:


> i thought that was your real photo



Now i want to make a joke about _your_ picture and how i think the moustache really fits you, but i'm new here so shall refrain


----------



## Craylock

oneguy said:


> It’s nice to see the 507 getting some love. I always thought they were given a bad reputation.


I had them and liked them a lot. Brilliant forward presentation with those upper mids in focus. Bartered it for a Trafomatic Head 1, and looking forward to getting the mutant.


----------



## LostHisMarbles (Sep 1, 2022)

The 507s were a bit too technical/sterile (the English term escapes me, sorry) for my liking, but nothing major.. i think they belong in the category of STAX headphones that weren't given the proper chance. I'll leave the reason behind this for a future discussion, when it no longer says "new" next to my name tag 

On topic, i'll admit i fail to see how such a change -507 monitor to a 700 shell- could produce such a result, given that the shell geometry is pretty much identical, but.. i haven't heard the outcome. Bit of a shame though, doing that. For exposing the driver units if nothing else. To each their own of course, mere opinion.


----------



## zomkung

bigjako said:


> the NB Sigmas have reminded my why I love NB Lambdas so much and has been my favorite headphone since I got them.  I don’t need two sigmas and have listed the 404 Sigmas for sale because the NBs just agree with me a little more (much more mid-focused, sweeter than the 404, etc.).
> 
> As for your question it’s a good one and I’d love to hear others thoughts.  I think best practice is to NOT do what i do and rest the Plastic, not the band.  Neither feel right to me, tbh and I can replace a headband easier or cheaper than a fraMe so I so what I do.
> 
> ...



Very cool sir,

How well the Sigmas comparing with 007-MK1? oh and I notice you also have the Jecklin Float. I'm a little curious about all of these and would like to hear from the owner


----------



## bigjako

The pic is of Joe Strummer, who was quite the marathoner.  My previous pic was Joey Ramone's high school prom pic.  I guess I like seeing them outside their normalcy. 

I have not had a real chance to A/B the 007 mk1 vs the NB Sigma, so this is based on general recollection.  Both are laid back (for estats) with a warmer/wetter sound.  The NB Sigma's strength, to me, are the sweet, syrupy and slightly forward mids.  The housings naturally roll off the sparkle but I'm struck by the sub-bass.  Compared to the 404 Sigmas, the sub bass is stronger, and they slam harder than original NB Lambdas.  I think it's the material used in the housing.  The 007s have a similar sound sig but much more extended up top and balanced throughout, not as mid-forward. They have elevated mid-bass / lower-mids, relative to the NB Sigmas.  NB Sigmas and Lambdas both have wonderful mids, never shouty, just sweet liquid.  The Lambdas have more sparkle up top and the Sigmas have more thump and slam, while the 007s have more detail and are balanced throughout (though they are clearly warmer than neutral, all of them). 

The Floats are a lot of fun and nail the 'atmospheric, immersive' experience but they're clearly a level below the Stax, to me, and have to be run off a Jecklin energizer.  Who knows how they'd sound out of a Carbon, though.


----------



## LostHisMarbles (Sep 1, 2022)

My favourite ones are the SR-Λ Signatures; not to be confused with the much earlier Pro models. If anyone is after the stereotypical "STAX" sound and hasn't heard those, i'd recommend looking out for them. They're not easy to find, but they're well worth the search.
They have a character that's just.. i love them.
Say what you will about recent-ish models, they lack character when compared to the pre-90s models.
Bit more detail here, bit more this or that over there, sure; but something was lost overall; there is a unique sound signature to the pre-bankruptcy models that is worth the trade off and then some. And among those, the Signatures for me sit right up there.

* I've seen certain posters complain about the old Lamdbas (be they Pro or Signature) treble/peak/etchiness, poster depending; i would only say that this is an issue on bad amps or overly.. "digital" sources. Truly.


----------



## mulveling (Sep 1, 2022)

Lambda Pro isn't getting a lot of love here, but in my early Stax days I heard one on a KGSShv and LOVED it! Really fun, engaging sound signature with lots bass impact. Not as detailed and refined as an omega-class, but still had some of the electrostat magic. I would've bought it in a second if the owner had been willing to sell. I agree the vintage Lambdas can have a whole lot of character, and there are gems out there.

There was one I heard after that Pro, maybe the Pro Signatures? Anyways, I didn't like it as much - bright and lean compared to the older Pro. But this is a personal preference thing.


----------



## LostHisMarbles (Sep 1, 2022)

Yeah, i get you. I listen almost exclusively to "classical music" (blanket term, but.. nonetheless) and that of course does colour my view accordingly; granted.
On the other hand, what better headphone brand to listen to classical music _from_? 

I do however -very, very politely- insist that a certain edginess/etchy character often ascribed to Lamdas is almost always due to an improper amp (yes, i say it again even though a certain one was named, just me) or an improper source; improper source as in bad design/implementation, could be noise, bias, switching supplies, SMDs, bad software "filters" or "roll offs", etc. etc.
Trends of the day notwithstanding, "digital", especially when cheap or compact "digital"? Comes at a price. You can't really do compact and good.
Again, don't shoot, merely discussing things!


----------



## padam

mulveling said:


> Lambda Pro isn't getting a lot of love here, but in my early Stax days I heard one on a KGSShv and LOVED it! Really fun, engaging sound signature with lots bass impact. Not as detailed and refined as an omega-class, but still had some of the electrostat magic. I would've bought it in a second if the owner had been willing to sell. I agree the vintage Lambdas can have a whole lot of character, and there are gems out there.
> 
> There was one I heard after that Pro, maybe the Pro Signatures? Anyways, I didn't like it as much - bright and lean compared to the older Pro. But this is a personal preference thing.


When comparing those two on a Carbon with its power and warmth, the Sig starts to level up. Still bright, but if the brain comprehends that the sound is "good", it starts to adjust to it rather quickly. Casing point is the SR-X Mk3, doesn't have much bass and high frequency extension, but remains strong in whatever is left.

The Lambda Pro is cheap for what it is, one of the most dramatic performances, also improves on the Carbon compared to the standard KGSSHV, starts to get rid of its treble issues - even better without damping when driven by an amp of this caliber. But the Lambda Signature, Lambda Nova Signature and NB Lambda are still higher level with regards to tone and technicalities. (imho of course, they all have different merits and characters and individual flaws needing slightly different matching, etc.)
The 507 + Carbon has the best bass out of any Lambda by far, great detail and definition thrown in for good measure, but the tonality is not better than a Lambda Pro. not everyone seems to be picky about that, or if it can be corrected, it can also be very strong for not a lot of money.


LostHisMarbles said:


> Yeah, i get you. I listen almost exclusively to "classical music" (blanket term, but.. nonetheless) and that of course does colour my view accordingly; granted.
> On the other hand, what better headphone brand to listen to classical music _from_?


Sad to write this here, but Stax does not make the Sennheiser HE90, which I am still finding to be impossible to match with classical.
The three Lambdas I just mentioned have some characteristics of its sound - but they don't do it as well and also not in one package:
-warmer, richer, weightier tone of the NB
-faster, cleaner, airier, more resolving nature of the Signature
-yet with also the mellow smoothness of the Nova
(And all this with more realism.)
This reminds me why the NB is still my choice of this trio for classical (or just in general). More weight and fullness than the Signature and the high frequency and transient reproduction is better to my ears, speed is less emphasized. I can get by with inferior technicalities, detail above this level might not to contribute to a better sense of realism. Never feels veiled, but also free from excessive forwardness or harshness.

I'd like to think that maybe one day with a T2, I can narrow the selection of this Lambda trio even further. (My bet is still on the NB, but if one prefers a more exquisite ethereal performance, it is the Signature for sure, and the Omega-like underrated subtlety of the Nova is also admirable in its own right)

The Stax Omegas (flagships) can certainly match or potentially exceed the HE90 with regards to technicalities, but the indirect presentation of sound with higher complexity is even farther away than the Lambdas. Less listening to recording, more pure music = in a lot of cases better. (Ymmv.)

To end up on a high note, in a way Stax still prevails over Sennheiser: producing headphones bought by more people (which others can still buy now) and a handul of them were also made much earlier than the HE90.


----------



## LostHisMarbles (Sep 2, 2022)

You didn't just compare a 14000euro Orpheus to a pair of cans that can be had for 300euro if you know where to look.. Surely you didn't..

I frankly found the Orpheus infuriatingly disappointing for its money. Mind you, not saying i can afford it, has just passed from my bench as that horrible, horrible amp needed repair and customer had wisely brought the headphones along as well. Despicably disappointing, but again, this wasn't a product directed at me; this was -always- meant for people that just need to spend; for spending's sake. Ego self-feeders.

The T2 does wonders with all STAX models and is still unsurpassed, its only downside being that one will almost certainly need to change things in one's signal chain; a lot is revealed (or further amplified) that can actually become problematic, especially in.. 'modern' (read: digitally sourced and "ts-k ts-k ts-k" kind of music) systems. That design was a class of its own. Though i should clarify here that i'm not talking about the SMDs all-over version i see passed around here.
Still on a personal level and the T2 aside, i love the SRX Plus for Lambdas. Further modified -JimL's schematic has issues on both the main and the PS unit- it is truly exceptional an amp, one can stop there no matter their wallet; investing in good mats for it is truly worth it.

And because people mention expensive stuff oh so easily all around, for non-affluent people? Assuming my opinion means anything:
Stick to a 007ta/ii, replace those cheap Nichicons it ships with, do the 6s4A and CCS mods. And you can truly call it a day there.
You get some more to spend on later on? Excellent. Invest in a better pot for that 007 and some proper Dale resistors so as to replace _all_ the stock ones. Especialy in the latest revisions, the resistors used are.. not recommended.
And you'll be more than good, you're set.

You don't need those 6K and 7K "DIY" amps sold so profusely around here, and you don't need to feel bad reading about them if you can't have them; honestly.


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## padam

You emphasize the importance of chain, synergy and tweaking, yet completely dismiss certain things, having very little actual experience with them.

I've only expressed my own impressions to provide more feedback, others might may think completely differently, as stated.
I still don't see anything that triggered a hostile reaction.
I happen to be in contact with a few people owning expensive things and they are some of the nicest, most humble people I've known, it's not a question of money.
Do you think anything expensive stated as being great is mentioned, just so people who can't have them feel worse? Honestly...

If you say there is a certain point of diminishing returns where it is not worth going further, you should also explain certain aspects where the much more expensive system is superior. Some people may actually want that, others may see that it does not give them a whole lot.

Otherwise you don't have much sense of where you are actually at.


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## lsantista (Sep 2, 2022)

I think he's just mad because he's losthismarbles!

Now seriously and back on track - having had a a 007T with 6s4A and CCS mods and having had a carbon, I 100% agree the modded stax amp is a great sounding  bargain


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## padam

Yeah but depending on the type of headphone, a used KGST or even Carbon might be an even bigger bargain.

I would be mostly interested in a 6S4A CCS modded 007t against a KGST to see if there is any significant changes just by going with a KG design as opposed to a modified Stax one.

I used to hear quite dramatic difference between Stax amps and a KGSSHV (or now my Carbon) and after I carefully level-matched them, I didn't find them to be nearly as pronounced at first. But over time where I really started to notice the Carbon's forte. It used to be somewhat disappointing with Omegas (already good with Lambdas) but with some other tweaks I reached a point, where I am quite happy with what it's doing.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/stax-srm-007t-6s4a-and-ccs.29698/
Some don't even seem to prefer the sound of CCS vs resistors which is interesting. I like the stock T1W for what it is.
I tend to utilise it for stuff that does not require bass control or a lot of extension.
So a huge amount of variables.


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## SolarCetacean

padam said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/stax-srm-007t-6s4a-and-ccs.29698/
> Some don't even seem to prefer the sound of CCS vs resistors which is interesting. I like the stock T1W for what it is.
> I tend to utilise it for stuff that does not require bass control or a lot of extension.
> So a huge amount of variables.


There might be something to that preference of non-CCS amps. The seller in that listing mentioned the L700, which is close to what I have (I have the mk2), and with the L700mk2, in some ways I prefer running it off of the SRM-D10 rather than a CCS-modded 006tA. The curious thing is that if I were to point to any one aspect of sound, I would say that the CCS-modded 006tA offers superior quality (the bass is tighter and punchier, the treble is clearer, and the instrument separation/layering is improved), but it also had a tendency to bring out the problems in the L700's tuning, namely the huge peak in the midrange that makes things sound nasally. It's like the sound becomes less than the sum of its parts. Maybe the D10 has increased distortion which fills in the upper midrange and offsets the midrange imbalance, or maybe it rolls off the treble enough to balance things out, but despite the technical inferiority of the D10, it's a more pleasing listen (when not using EQ) with the L700mk2 than the CCS-modded 006tA. With the latter amp, usually within a few songs I get irritated by the honky and nasal tone and start using an EQ to balance things out, but on the D10, I normally don't have that urge.


----------



## timb5881

I ordered a pair of vintage Realistic HP-100 electrostatic headphones and energizer of if eBay today.  They are in need of some minor repair, the cable was cut in half so should be a simple splice.   From what I can find on them, they may b Stax based on the SR3 .  They are not wired the same as Stax and have a 6 pin connector.   The cups do not look like Stax, more like Koss esp9, and I am not sure if the are sealed or open.   I have also read that they can sound very good as well.  Any one have any experience with these?


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## bigjako (Sep 5, 2022)

SolarCetacean said:


> There might be something to that preference of non-CCS amps. The seller in that listing mentioned the L700, which is close to what I have (I have the mk2), and with the L700mk2, in some ways I prefer running it off of the SRM-D10 rather than a CCS-modded 006tA. The curious thing is that if I were to point to any one aspect of sound, I would say that the CCS-modded 006tA offers superior quality (the bass is tighter and punchier, the treble is clearer, and the instrument separation/layering is improved), but it also had a tendency to bring out the problems in the L700's tuning, namely the huge peak in the midrange that makes things sound nasally. It's like the sound becomes less than the sum of its parts. Maybe the D10 has increased distortion which fills in the upper midrange and offsets the midrange imbalance, or maybe it rolls off the treble enough to balance things out, but despite the technical inferiority of the D10, it's a more pleasing listen (when not using EQ) with the L700mk2 than the CCS-modded 006tA. With the latter amp, usually within a few songs I get irritated by the honky and nasal tone and start using an EQ to balance things out, but on the D10, I normally don't have that urge.


I had an 006t, which I had CCS-modded and I also have a 007t (for sale).  I obviously wasn't able to A/B test the pre- post-modded 006t, but to my recollection, the CCS mod tightened everything up, and made it sound less tubey and more SS.  I may be mistaken, but my understanding is the Bottlehead Speedball mod is itself a CCS mod, and the effect there is similar - cleans up the tube sound and makes it a little faster, more exact.

A couple months ago, I had all 3:
- CCS-modded 006t
- Stock 007t
- Mjolnir Carbon
+ the Eddie Current Electra

The Carbon was the best of the 3.  It felt much more effortless (like a major leaguer throwing from left field to home, easy) and the bass was stronger without any bloom.  I felt the modded 006t was 'better' than the 007. So it came down to the 006t vs Carbon and the difference wasn't that stark even with the 007 mk1.  It took some sustained listening for the difference to manifest and put the Carbon in the lead.  But I realized my main rig was the Electra and it didn't make sense for me to have a $4k backup so I sold the Carbon and rode the 006t as my backup, plus that backup had both L/R independent volume and a NB jack.  Anyways, my point (and my personal opinion) is that a modded Stax amp gets you pretty close to one of the aftermarket kings, too.  At most, it's a matter of degree, not of kind (until I hear a T2, probably).


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## ufospls2

Hey Guys,

I was hoping someone with more knowledge might be able to help me out. I've done a bunch of searching but not found overly conclusive info that I _fully_ understood. 

I owned a pair of black SR007mk2, and I'm not sure which version they were (2, 2.5, or 2.9)

What I'm wondering is if the current SR007mk2 (black) and SR007a (silver) would both be exactly the same headphone with different colours (same pads, same tuning etc..)

And if I was buying them new, would they both be considered the 2.9 version of the 007mk2?


----------



## padam

Yes and yes. The even use the same box, just with different stickers showing whether it is an Mk2 or "A" version.
The current one can be spotted by slightly different earpads, making it a "Mk2.95".
I saw SZ3-26xx serial on a brand new Mk2 a few months ago.


----------



## Craylock

LostHisMarbles said:


> The 507s were a bit too technical/sterile (the English term escapes me, sorry) for my liking, but nothing major.. i think they belong in the category of STAX headphones that weren't given the proper chance. I'll leave the reason behind this for a future discussion, when it no longer says "new" next to my name tag
> 
> On topic, i'll admit i fail to see how such a change -507 monitor to a 700 shell- could produce such a result, given that the shell geometry is pretty much identical, but.. i haven't heard the outcome. Bit of a shame though, doing that. For exposing the driver units if nothing else. To each their own of course, mere opinion.


Sorry Mr Marbles. Didn't see your comment until now. The shell geometry is oposite. The 507 is deep in front, while the 700 is deep in the back and slants forward. There are also other adjustments. Exposing the driver unit while mounting them? Why do you think that will harm them?


----------



## Craylock

thinker said:


> Latest mod version here with new damping materials. If you find a better sounding Stax phone let me know


Hi Thinker. Am pondering following your lead, and can't find your original input on this. (My eyes hurt). A mate just modded his 007mk2 except keeping the dust covers, and is thrilled. I have a mk1, and might get a 009. Could you please give me a link somehow? Pretty please with sugar on top, and a smorgasbord of brotherly love?


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## oneguy (Sep 10, 2022)

Just dropped off 30 min ago:


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## Kiats

oneguy said:


> Just dropped of 30 min ago:


Ooh! Congrats!!!


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## dukeskd

oneguy said:


> Just dropped of 30 min ago:


Take notice of the diffuse sound stage that this headphone does that no other headphone comes close to.


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## Chefguru

oneguy said:


> Just dropped off 30 min ago:


Can’t wait to hear your thoughts vs the sr-x9000


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## oneguy

I’ll do more vs x9000 listening today but so far vs the ES-1a I’d say the Omega beats it in every regard but deep bass. The ES-1a has a narrow sound stand where as the Omega is has just about a perfect naturalness to it. The 1a has a treble inflection compared to the Omega which seems relative flat except for the previously mentioned deep bass. No irritation at the across the frequency response.

My specific test for deep bass is Daft Punk’s “Doin It Right.” The Omega can’t hang with the extremely low note in that sound falls on its face. The ES-1a handles it well.

The Omega balances extreme instrument separation well. Not extreme like the HD800 or overdone (maybe forced is correct word?) compared to the X9000. Not a muddy soup of all of them floating together either which is the other end of the spectrum.

Vs the 1a the Omega has a really full as well developed upper bass and mids.

Overall exaggeration of FR of the Omega vs the 1a
Omega: /——
ES-1a: \—_-/

Those are my initial thoughts. Only A/B’ed 2 songs vs the x9000 so I’ll need a few more data points to form a more general conclusion.


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## Roukii

Is that 007 driver in omega shell?


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## oneguy

Omega driver in Omega shell


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## oneguy (Sep 11, 2022)

*2L: Nordic Sound - 2L Audiophile Reference Record*
North Country II, for flugelhorn, cello, and Piano
-Omega is much more laid back
-Piano strings sounded like they were being plucked and not struck. I had never noticed that before. It was more evident on x9000
-Flugelhorn sounded slightly off with the x9000 and a bit of harness at times. However, with the Omega the flugelhorn flourishes

Duels, for 2 violins: Vivo
-openness of x9000 is refreshing. The pad material helps. Thickness and natural material of the x9000 pads helps add to the aural sense of air. The Omega has artificial leather pads which made this song seem stuffy along with being a less airy sound presentation
-The strident treble of the x9000 occasionally pops up and detracts from the overall quality at that particular moment

Springar etter Gudmund Eide, for chorus
-Both do well at this song. I would say it would just boils down to listener’s choice/mood

*HD Tracks 2013 Sampler*
The Wind Song
-this is the tracking I use to test sibilance. While I love the detail and articulation in Patricia Barber’s voice, the sibilant S’s can drive you bonkers
-X9000 wonderful and open, sibilance becomes unbearable though. Kind of like the hd800, it cuts music with a scalpel like precision but sometimes the scalpel gets turned back towards your ear drums. I had to stop critical listening For a while after this assault on my ears
-Omega is much more laid back. I could tolerate the sibilance without wincing

Be Still My Soul
-x9000 presentation was very detailed
-omega was smooth and rich
I was fatigued from the X9000 making me wince with sibilance and it’s getting late so I stopped for the night here. 

Overall:
I‘ve still only touched a small subset of mucic with this but I would say the general categorizaction for the Omega vs the x9000 is the Omega melds everything together well in a nice package that is easy to listen to. The X9000 provide more of a wow factor with the detail instrument resolution but this is a double edge sword that sometimes swings the other way and can get in the way of enjoying the music.


----------



## Kiats

oneguy said:


> *2L: Nordic Sound - 2L Audiophile Reference Record*
> North Country II, for flugelhorn, cello, and Piano
> -Omega is much more laid back
> -Piano strings sounded like they were being plucked and not struck. I had never noticed that before. It was more evident on x9000
> ...


Thanks for your impressions @oneguy. So, would it be correct to say that the Omega does not grab you immediately but you will appreciate how cohesive and enjoyable the presentation is, ie. a non-fatiguing enjoyable listen; whilst the X9000 is tuned to impress at first instance, but may be fatiguing for longer sessions?


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## number1sixerfan (Sep 11, 2022)

oneguy said:


> *2L: Nordic Sound - 2L Audiophile Reference Record*
> North Country II, for flugelhorn, cello, and Piano
> -Omega is much more laid back
> -Piano strings sounded like they were being plucked and not struck. I had never noticed that before. It was more evident on x9000
> ...




Pretty much mirrors my experience with the two. Generally similar presentations, with the x9000 being a bit more technically proficient while the Omega is smoother, with a bit more natural tone/smoothness. I would only add that the Omega was very impressive technically, just that the x9000 pushes that a bit further. If I could only choose one or the other, I think I would go with the Omega because of that balance, but it would be tough. The only thing for me with the Omega was that it felt just a bit less engaging (i.e. more laid back as you say) than the x9000 or HE90/R10 I auditioned it with. But smoothness/laid back sound is kind of an inherent tradeoff with more energy, detail and potential harshness for some people's ears.

So fully agree it just comes down to preference and what a user is looking for.

edit - and also agree with your thoughts exactly on the ES-1a as well.


----------



## oneguy

Kiats said:


> Thanks for your impressions @oneguy. So, would it be correct to say that the Omega does not grab you immediately but you will appreciate how cohesive and enjoyable the presentation is, ie. a non-fatiguing enjoyable listen; whilst the X9000 is tuned to impress at first instance, but may be fatiguing for longer sessions?


Oh no, the Omega does grab you immediately. No doubt about that. I also wouldn’t say that the x9000 is k my tunes to impress on first listen. It I do agree that your music selection needs to right for the x9000 or you session may be shorter than you were going for. 

@number1sixerfan I concur. If I only had to pick one it would be the Omega because smoothness is my overall preference.


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## Chefguru

Wonder if we eq the sr9k fr to match the omega it would get pretty close tonality since structurally they’re so similar.


----------



## padam

Roukii said:


> Is that 007 driver in omega shell?


Yes, it is. Better pictures here
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-Ω-sr-omega-the-legendary-omega.847079/post-17137886


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## dukeskd

padam said:


> Yes, it is. Better pictures here
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-Ω-sr-omega-the-legendary-omega.847079/post-17137886


Nope, his are the original Omega drivers as can be seen with the rivets on the 2nd pic.


----------



## Chefguru

dukeskd said:


> Nope, his are the original Omega drivers as can be seen with the rivets on the 2nd pic.


Looks to me Iike 007


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## oneguy (Sep 12, 2022)

Chefguru said:


> Looks to me Iike 007




Upon closer inspection I think you may be right. Still considering it a bargain at the price I got them for though.


----------



## Chefguru

number1sixerfan said:


> Pretty much mirrors my experience with the two. Generally similar presentations, with the x9000 being a bit more technically proficient while the Omega is smoother, with a bit more natural tone/smoothness. I would only add that the Omega was very impressive technically, just that the x9000 pushes that a bit further. If I could only choose one or the other, I think I would go with the Omega because of that balance, but it would be tough. The only thing for me with the Omega was that it felt just a bit less engaging (i.e. more laid back as you say) than the x9000 or HE90/R10 I auditioned it with. But smoothness/laid back sound is kind of an inherent tradeoff with more energy, detail and potential harshness for some people's ears.
> 
> So fully agree it just comes down to preference and what a user is looking for.
> 
> edit - and also agree with your thoughts exactly on the ES-1a as well.


Except you actually heard real omega drivers in that unit.
 Further goes to show that the sound signature of vintage gear is preferred by many.


----------



## thinker

The 007mk2 in 009 case with new damping materials, i find this to be the all time best Stax phone, some friends were listening and they agree with this. I did install the driver tight and avoided using this time any screws wich connects its to case to get rid of all resonances. It's very musical detailed open wide smooth, everything in one package and long time satisfaction is guaranteed. It is above007/ X9K  /Omega. Huge potentiality is hidden in 007 driver.


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## Chefguru

thinker said:


> The 007mk2 in 009 case with new damping materials, i find this to be the all time best Stax phone, some friends were listening and they agree with this. I did install the driver tight and avoided using this time any screws wich connects its to case to get rid of all resonances. It's very musical detailed open wide smooth, everything in one package and long time satisfaction is guaranteed. It is above007/ X9K  /Omega. Huge potentiality is hidden in 007 driver.


Prior to your Frankenstein, how did you rank the standard Stax models


----------



## thinker

Chefguru said:


> Prior to your Frankenstein, how did you rank the standard Stax models


1. Frankenstein
2.Omega 
2.X9K
3.007
4.009
Those who try Frankenstein the first impression is how musical it is, the sound is creamy like 007 and airy towards (009/X9K) and extremely natural and balanced. Not diffuse at all , doesn't have the upper midrange thinnes (shoutyness) wich appear sometimes on X9K. The X9K forces you to be a spectator to music it doesn't invite you to intimate dialogue and this phone should have been been more meaty to become a legend. Old Omega is somhow diffuse and needs a musical amp in the end, it's not quite balanced, bass midrange highs are somehow separated.


----------



## thinker

.....and then i'm also testing this new amp wich is double mono and makes almost every stax sing, next weekend i test it with different staxes


----------



## oneguy

Chefguru said:


> Except you actually heard real omega drivers in that unit.
> Further goes to show that the sound signature of vintage gear is preferred by many.


I don’t know if that broad statement is completely accurate. That’s similar to saying “I like the Ford GT90 more than the C7 Z06 therefore many prefer cars from the 90’s to modern day cars.” I can think of plenty of gear that is vintage that I do not prefer to modern equipment. I believe we all can.

I think the only loose assumption you can make from this exercise is that Omega/007 and pure omega may yield similar sonic profiles relative to the x9000.


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## Chefguru (Sep 12, 2022)

thinker said:


> 1. Frankenstein
> 2.Omega
> 2.X9K
> 3.007
> ...


I get the logic here as the 007 drivers in the omega shell is preferred by many.


oneguy said:


> I don’t know if that broad statement is completely accurate. That’s similar to saying “I like the Ford GT90 more than the C7 Z06 therefore many prefer cars from the 90’s to modern day cars.” I can think of plenty of gear that is vintage that I do not prefer to modern equipment. I believe we all can.
> 
> I think the only loose assumption you can make from this exercise is that Omega/007 and pure omega may yield similar sonic profiles relative to the x9000.


I was referring to the Stax vintage sound specifically - 007mk1 / omega / sigma / NB l


----------



## dukeskd

oneguy said:


> Upon closer inspection I think you may be right. Still considering it a bargain at the price I got them for though.


Show us a pic under different light. The original Omega drivers will have those rivets, the 007 will not and will be just one "plane". Still can't tell from this pic.


----------



## dukeskd

Chefguru said:


> I get the logic here as the 007 drivers in the omega shell is preferred by many.
> 
> I was referring to the Stax vintage sound specifically - 007mk1 / omega / sigma / NB l


It would explain why he mentioned it sounded darker and "duller". The original SR Omega sound has a somewhat hot treble and upper range, obviously dependent on the amplifier.


----------



## padam

dukeskd said:


> Show us a pic under different light. The original Omega drivers will have those rivets, the 007 will not and will be just one "plane". Still can't tell from this pic.


Please stop this nonsense. Every hybrid Omega has rivets in the center, only the very very early Omegas with original drivers have those rivets missing.
It is pretty clear which version it is, here is a comparison side-by-side on another pair.


----------



## Gazza

Gotta say, my 009 powered by my Manley Labs 300B pre and Densen B-150 power (class AB but A for the first 5-10 watts) via a Woo WEE energiser sounds utterly incredible. Leagues better than my SRM-007tII. Completely obliterates the argument that the 009 is only good for acoustic/jazz type music as it is a beast with crushing metal albums. Does it let me know if the album is poor? Does it ever! But it's not unlistenable and they can sound beguiling with music that is far from pristine. 

Swapping in a pair of Western Electric 300B + upgrading my Zen Mini PSU removed the last visage of glare from the sound signature. It's not a warm sound by any stretch but not the strident mess many claim the 009 to be.

Can't imagine a dedicated 'stats amp would sound much better. Even if it did the massive cash sink to get an incremental change wouldn't be worth it versus pouring that money into an upgrade elsewhere.


----------



## dukeskd

padam said:


> Please stop this nonsense. Every hybrid Omega has rivets in the center, only the very very early Omegas with original drivers have those rivets missing.
> It is pretty clear which version it is, here is a comparison side-by-side on another pair.


You are saying the same exact thing I am saying so in essence "non-sense". I have seen many of the 007 drivers in SR-Omega missing the rivets, especially if Stax did the driver replacements. Just FYI, I own a SR-Omega with original drivers.


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## padam (Sep 13, 2022)

dukeskd said:


> Just FYI, I own a SR-Omega with original drivers.


Congrats. A bit surprising that you can actually tell the difference with all this nonsense you've just posted.
In any case, this is a hybrid Omega/007 (SN #6x), so impressions from it should be interpreted as such.


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## dukeskd

padam said:


> Congrats. A bit surprising that you can actually tell the difference with all this nonsense you've just posted.
> In any case, this is a hybrid Omega/007 (SN #6x), so impressions from it should be interpreted as such.


Love the banter and the weak sarcasm.

From the impressions it was quite clear that it couldn't be the original drivers as I'd never describe them as dull/boring. The original drivers have remarkable tone and upper mid range qualities that is rare for a 'stat.


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## Mach3

Congrats Oneguy to the 1% club, you have a very unique Omega Hybrid.
Thanks for posting the impression compared to the X9 and the Es1a.
I wonder how it sounds with a 009 driver.


----------



## padam

dukeskd said:


> From the impressions it was quite clear that it couldn't be the original drivers as I'd never describe them as dull/boring.


And yet you've still tried to question observations _after _impressions were written. There is enough noise in this thread already, it would be way less, if people could resist the urge to vehemently disagree, even if they don't actually know it any better, and they could just write: "You could be right."


----------



## oneguy

@Mach3 thanks!

@dukeskd I’m not sure sure where you are getting “dull/boring” from. Neither of the comments from @number1sixerfan or myself made those assertions.


----------



## babyoh

AudioCats said:


> If your 717 has blue ALPS pot as volume control ( like what is in my 007t's), one "must do" mod would be to configure it to "shunt pot volume control" and add premium series resistors. It can bring noticeable SQ improvement. (Alps blue is kind of "dull" sounding)


Which discontinued Stax amp doesn’t have this infamous blue ALPS volume pot for those who prefer keeping it stock? Thanks.


----------



## zomkung

oneguy said:


> I’ll do more vs x9000 listening today but so far vs the ES-1a I’d say the Omega beats it in every regard but deep bass. The ES-1a has a narrow sound stand where as the Omega is has just about a perfect naturalness to it. The 1a has a treble inflection compared to the Omega which seems relative flat except for the previously mentioned deep bass. No irritation at the across the frequency response.
> 
> My specific test for deep bass is Daft Punk’s “Doin It Right.” The Omega can’t hang with the extremely low note in that sound falls on its face. The ES-1a handles it well.
> 
> ...



May I ask the difference between the ES-1A and 007-MK1


----------



## oneguy

I’ve never listened to a Mk1 so I can’t comment. Just the Omega with 007 drivers and the Mk2.9.


----------



## babyoh

Has anyone compared the discontinued SRM-007T to the current models like SRM-500T?  Which is the one to get?  Thanks.


----------



## SolarCetacean

SRM-500T is the replacement for the 006t, not the 007t. The 007t successor is the SRM-700T. I'd presume that the 500T would be less powerful than the 007t based on the specs alone. I'm not sure of any direct sound comparisons that have been done. But I've read positive impressions of the new ones from some people here on Head-Fi.

From some teardowns by the "Stax Mafia" over at Head-Case, the new ones are pretty similar overall to the older ones with the same circuit design, just with different tubes and small changes to parts here and there. The 500T is supposedly similar to the SRM-600LTD from a while back.

If you can find a 007T with the CCS mod and the 6S4A mod (or do those mods yourself), that turns it into an amp that's similar to the 3rd party KGST amp, which is more powerful.


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## LostHisMarbles (Sep 18, 2022)

Made someone _very_ happy today ^^
Very good friend and professional colleague, we go back many decades, respect and love him. He's better than me but don't let him know!

Back in the early '90s, let us say my employment was such that i had me a bit of an access in all STAX products.
You've probably guessed where this is going, yes, this led to my acquiring an Ωmega, which at the time i think it went for 3million and 300thousand drachmas?
Crazy money. 3,3 million of your local currency, lol
He was a bit envious, i knew. And i actually lent it to him for many months, something which i never do with electrostats, but.. least i could do.

Fast forward to today, when my SRX-9000 arrived (thank you bro for hiding it from my wife).
Minus a sliiight re-interpretive tendency which can be overcome if your know your electronics (i don't do software alchemies or "EQ"), i think it's a worthy successor to the original mesh Ωμεga; or age has robbed me of my hearing, lol

Knew he was in this evening, so drove over with the original Ωmega gift wrapped and rang the bell!
Fast foward it a few minutes and he was close to **** himself 
Took a few decades, but now he has it!
(not an easy gift to make, not for a grumpy, self-centered old fart like me, but.. the look on his face, i'd do it again)
And sorry for spamming, good w/end to you all.


----------



## lsantista

Would double like this if I could!! Humble congrats on him and on you for the gesture! Real friendship is priceless, even compared to an original Omega


----------



## Mach3

LostHisMarbles said:


> Made someone _very_ happy today ^^
> Very good friend and professional colleague, we go back many decades, respect and love him. He's better than me but don't let him know!
> 
> Back in the early '90s, let us say my employment was such that i had me a bit of an access in all STAX products.
> ...


Damn... your friend level is JEDI....
You're giving him a piece of history, quite significant in my view because you can replace the X9000 but not the Omega.
They becoming extinct rare.


----------



## thinker (Sep 19, 2022)

SolarCetacean said:


> SRM-500T is the replacement for the 006t, not the 007t. The 007t successor is the SRM-700T. I'd presume that the 500T would be less powerful than the 007t based on the specs alone. I'm not sure of any direct sound comparisons that have been done. But I've read positive impressions of the new ones from some people here on Head-Fi.
> 
> From some teardowns by the "Stax Mafia" over at Head-Case, the new ones are pretty similar overall to the older ones with the same circuit design, just with different tubes and small changes to parts here and there. The 500T is supposedly similar to the SRM-600LTD from a while back.
> 
> If you can find a 007T with the CCS mod and the 6S4A mod (or do those mods yourself), that turns it into an amp that's similar to the 3rd party KGST amp, which is more powerful.


I have an old Grundig tube radio wich is 60 years old, it's used daily and it has point to point wiring and if you look inside it looks like a complitely mess. The radio had never issues and i think tubes were changed 3-4 times. And the sound is just stellar. It's fun how Stax mafia has brainwashed almost the whole community with so called "clean" amps.


----------



## padam

thinker said:


> It's fun how Stax mafia has brainwashed almost the whole community with so called "clean" amps.


Haven't you posted enough crap in this thread already? (some of it you had to delete as well)
Those mafia amps are just plain brilliant in their own right. (You are also crapping on the BHSE as well, we all secretly loathe that as well, just too afraid to tell.)

An audio system consists of a whole chain, and not necessarily works in every combination. I have found the SR-007 Mk1 + Carbon to not necessarily work so well with my own (cheap) source. (I may try some tweaking as I read so much about it.). But I also heard it with the standard KGSSHV on a different DAC and a fully analogue system as well, it was something else - and I would be surprised, if the Carbon won't be better still.


----------



## Thobjo (Sep 21, 2022)

Inspired by mods done by @thinker I decided to try myself on my 007.

Removing all the layers of  obstruction like the metalplate,spring and mesh aswell as sealing of the bassport with a 3Dprinted  ring really livened the headphone up.
More Classic Omega I think? Very good bass and all the way down low.

Pictures:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YR_8nOHddE6p3EOReEpzxPIKRjLhS7xp/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YRNZ39mwJkr4D9YpWqkouK5TpqaeXQmL/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YL-Bjiw1lMbdvUhhWcqu5bpMEsjO2axP/view?usp=drivesdk

I also got a new set of 3dprinted rings made to work with the ZMF Oval pads, testing soon 

Can you elaborate more on the dampening you speak of @thinker or is it a secret? I do not fully understand.



thinker said:


> The 007mk2 in 009 case with new damping materials, i find this to be the all time best Stax phone, some friends were listening and they agree with this. I did install the driver tight and avoided using this time any screws wich connects its to case to get rid of all resonances. It's very musical detailed open wide smooth, everything in one package and long time satisfaction is guaranteed. It is above007/ X9K  /Omega. Huge potentiality is hidden in 007 driver.


----------



## omega1990

Finally got my hands on a kgsshv amp from mjolnir audio. I read so many comments stating how a number of users liked it with the 007 and now I finally understand why there are so many recommendations for it. My version is the latest 2022 version that has a bit of the kgss klassic warmth and forgiveness. It's built very well and the volume knob has a bit of resistance compared the the novems volume knob.

The kgsshv changes my 007 mk1 from something that was relaxed and easy to listen to, into a headphone that is hyper dynamic and engaging (has more of a rock out take on sound). I think the amp is also helping with extension at the very top and very bottom. It does not make it a bass cannon mind you, but the dynamic punch/slam is so exciting and hard hitting. A fast tight sound that I really like, but I understand that it won't be for everyone.

After listening to my 009S on the kgsshv, while it is also impressive, I prefer it on my novem. I still use the rca 12ax7a tubes which trade some treble energy for bass quantity and subbass presence. The tube sound also softens the sound a bit (sounds a touch lush), but it is also brings out the dynamics similar to the kgsshv but not to the same extent as the kgsshv. I think I'm good for now on amps for my estats and can work on saving for the x9000.


----------



## oneguy

I just got a 007mk2 and I must say that in stock form I prefer the ES-1a to it. I’m going to try the bass port mod today once my blu-tack arrives but if it doesn’t fix things I’ll have to part ways with the 007mk2. On the plus side there is a lot of bass. On the negative side the 007mk2’s bass was very monotone and the entire presentation seem way too shifted towards the lower registers. Treble seemed to take a large hit. 

All of the above is on a KGGG amp and May DAC.


----------



## thinker

padam said:


> Haven't you posted enough crap in this thread already? (some of it you had to delete as well)
> Those mafia amps are just plain brilliant in their own right. (You are also crapping on the BHSE as well, we all secretly loathe that as well, just too afraid to tell.)
> 
> An audio system consists of a whole chain, and not necessarily works in every combination. I have found the SR-007 Mk1 + Carbon to not necessarily work so well with my own (cheap) source. (I may try some tweaking as I read so much about it.). But I also heard it with the standard KGSSHV on a different DAC and a fully analogue system as well, it was something else - and I would be surprised, if the Carbon won't be better still.





Thobjo said:


> Inspired by mods done by @thinker I decided to try myself on my 007.
> 
> Removing all the layers of  obstruction like the metalplate,spring and mesh aswell as sealing of the bassport with a 3Dprinted  ring really livened the headphone up.
> More Classic Omega I think? Very good bass and all the way down low.
> ...


The 007 and hybrid 007/009 are different projects. Nice work you have done with 007 it should sound much better than standard version. The hybrid version needs damping rings, i used a felt 0-ring to stabilise the driver and the driver is wedged in place, a method wich was used by france company Oxygene years ago on single driver loudspeakers. A good way to get off resonances. Many more thinks were done like leaving all screws away etc.

We all have different ears but the hybrid version 007/009 is the best Stax i have heard. Last weekend i was listening with the dual mono tube amp X9K Phenomenon 007mk1 and Hybrid phones and i'm confident to say that Mafia amps sound pretty good but better amps do exist.


----------



## zomkung

oneguy said:


> I just got a 007mk2 and I must say that in stock form I prefer the ES-1a to it. I’m going to try the bass port mod today once my blu-tack arrives but if it doesn’t fix things I’ll have to part ways with the 007mk2. On the plus side there is a lot of bass. On the negative side the 007mk2’s bass was very monotone and the entire presentation seem way too shifted towards the lower registers. Treble seemed to take a large hit.
> 
> All of the above is on a KGGG amp and May DAC.



Thanks, Waiting to know your thought patiently


----------



## oneguy

zomkung said:


> Thanks, Waiting to know your thought patiently


Gonna have to wait a bit longer. Wife left the Amazon package in the car and I had surgery 36 hours ago so I’m not about to go get it.


----------



## Thobjo

thinker said:


> The 007 and hybrid 007/009 are different projects. Nice work you have done with 007 it should sound much better than standard version. The hybrid version needs damping rings, i used a felt 0-ring to stabilise the driver and the driver is wedged in place, a method wich was used by france company Oxygene years ago on single driver loudspeakers. A good way to get off resonances. Many more thinks were done like leaving all screws away etc.
> 
> We all have different ears but the hybrid version 007/009 is the best Stax i have heard. Last weekend i was listening with the dual mono tube amp X9K Phenomenon 007mk1 and Hybrid phones and i'm confident to say that Mafia amps sound pretty good but better amps do exist.




This sounds very interesting! A friend of mine is trying to figure it out, would you mind sharing the type of felt and maybe more details of the mod, Would sharing pictures be possible?

If you want we can procede on DM for the details 

I love the 007 after mods,padswap and EQ, truly a great earspeaker fully unlocked.


----------



## thinker (Sep 21, 2022)

Here you see the medium dense felt, the thickness you can calculate by the picture. The size of the 0-ring can be calculated by the diameter of the inner driver case.
The widht of the felt is about 1cm and when you look at the driver from outside it should be as in picture. The 009 case has black rubber ring and keep it in place.
Use some silicone glue to connect the felt to case. Install the driver above the felt. Now you have to wedge the driver against the inner case,  wedge it with tight rubber but it must be very tight. Take the O-ring metal plate (wich is partially inside) the pad and the inner 009 dustcover and install them with silicone glue. Close the opening with a felt piece near the cable connection.
The only screws wich are used are the connection of the cable to case. This is short description and rest you can figure out by yourself. This can probably be improved when somebody has better ideas.

The 007 driver in standard case has excellent midrange and bass, still perceive them as not balanced together and the bass is highlighted when you drive it for instance with
Carbon. The biggest problem with 007 is that the highs don't shine lot of information is missing in the highs, the bass goes deep but it's not well articulated.The 007 shines on midrange and the overall tone is pleasantly soft. It has a legendary sound signature.

I was suprised how much the sound changes when the driver is in another case. This hybrid version is not the 007 phone anymore but better in any way. The 007 driver is now a extremely balanced driver, now you hear that 007 can do excellent detailed highs and goes all way up.

The overall tone is airy and the excellent midrange is not lost. Bass behaves much better it's much more articulate and doesn't bump anymore . The overall tone you can describe not as "muddy" still the legendary signature is not lost.

 I rave about this phone because it's the first phone were i can complitely relax and get lost in the music. The original is little bit sleepy and this is a big wake up . The sound of the hybrid is very clean but not sterile. The Original Omega is not as clean as the hybrid. You can also image how the midrange sounds on 007, now on the hybrid the highs and bass are the same part of it.

To make this you need 009 and 007 phone and you have to dissamble them, i don't recommend to do it .
I'm not sure if i told everything but try to figure out how it's done
Don't use any metal plate between your ears and driver just the dustcover to protect from electrical connection

edit: could be that i used* a second felt O-ring between pads and driver *i don't remember but try out




T


----------



## oneguy

I performed the port mod on the 007mk2 and it did help the faults of the non-port modded mk2 but I still find it not to my liking compared to ES-1a and Omega/007 hybrid. The biggest issue that wasn’t fixed is the need to crank up the volume to get the treble to to burn through the veil that obscures it at lower volume levels. I tend to listen to listen to my music at lower levels so I’m gonna have to let these go.

Next up is the Perun Rock that just arrived in country last night. I’m hoping to have it my by Friday or Saturday.


----------



## Thobjo (Sep 21, 2022)

oneguy said:


> I performed the port mod on the 007mk2 and it did help the faults of the non-port modded mk2 but I still find it not to my liking compared to ES-1a and Omega/007 hybrid. The biggest issue that wasn’t fixed is the need to crank up the volume to get the treble to to burn through the veil that obscures it at lower volume levels. I tend to listen to listen to my music at lower levels so I’m gonna have to let these go.
> 
> Next up is the Perun Rock that just arrived in country last night. I’m hoping to have it my by Friday or Saturday.


I have the Perun Rock "Quadrun" V2022 on the way myself, very exited, just left Russia 

Have you done any mods like removing the metal plate, rubber mount, steel spring yourself on your 007?

I think and feel it really made a difference and unlocks alot of hidden qualities in the 007 like you describe it maybe lacking stock, I feel it has been worked into a product lineup and tamed down abit.

After mods I would say the veil is gone and volume comes soner on the pot, or louder at same setting so to say.
The darkness or hard to drive nature of the 007 is more with its stock setup I feel.

If you compare the 007-009 and x9000 it looks to me that great lenghts has been made to remove obstructions as much as possible the higher you go in the lineup.


----------



## oneguy

@Thobjo the port mod is all I did to modify from stock. I considered trying the spring expansion mod but didn’t want to pull the earpads off again to expand the rings and see the difference.

Interesting thoughts about Stax removing obstructions as you move up in the line. I never took apart my 009S so I can’t validate and I dare not take apart the X9k. 

Arthur thinks the x9k will be unseated by the Quadrun. My ears are ready and waiting! We have some good times ahead!


----------



## Thobjo (Sep 21, 2022)

thinker said:


> Here you see the medium dense felt, the thickness you can calculate by the picture. The size of the 0-ring can be calculated by the diameter of the inner driver.
> The widht of the felt is about 1cm and when you look at the driver from outside it should be as in picture. The 009 case has black rubber ring and keep it in place.
> Use some silicone glue to connect the felt to case. Install the driver above the felt. Now you have to wedge the driver against the inner case,  wedge it with tight rubber but it must be very tight. Take the O-ring metal plate (wich is partially inside) the pad and the inner 009 dustcover and install them with silicone glue.
> The only screws wich are used are the connection of the cable to case. This is short description and rest you can figure out by yourself. This can probably be improved when somebody has better ideas.
> ...


Thanks alot!

I see alot of thought has gone into your mods, hence known as the "Thinker Mod" 

Maybe the custom plate allowing for full opening on center, any pads mounted and seal off the bassport can be known as the "Thobjo plate/ring" 

Future Stax Mafia talk:
Thinking of doing some Thinkermods on my Stax bro, maybe slapping on some Thobjo plates, all about that transparency and bass all the way down low direct nothing in the way sound.


----------



## Thobjo (Sep 22, 2022)

Me and some of the boys in the Norwegian Head-Fi Community have been working on listing all or most relevant Electrostatic "Headphones" and Energizers/Amps:

Electrostatic Headphones :
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...5oY8T0mng09QaEdkDtI10FXl_Hg/edit?usp=drivesdk

Amps/Energizer:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...lxblsdHPc-jRMIMShAC9JwVALUU/edit?usp=drivesdk

I was new in the hobby not to long ago and it seemed like a real jungle to be in with a struggle to get a grasp off all the makes and models and how it compares.

Alot of this is not exactly cornershop stuff but more boutique and custom made to order products.

Specs does not in any way tell it all, the lists are work in progress but getting an overview and discovering new makes and models and researching is alot of fun if you are into this awesome madness 

Maybe a list of well proven builders of amps and energizers could be added with their contact info?

A comparison of the different materials used, Mylar, Sep etc and information about the thickness used in the varying models or in general a technical write up about this would be nice if possible maybe.

The links takes you to an open document with editing permissions, so far this has been going well and people can take part if they have something to add, I have them backed up and hopefully it gets to a point it can be a community thing if people find it worthwhile 

Also posting this on Headphones subreddit and stax owners FB group etc.


----------



## chinsettawong

Thobjo said:


> Me and some of the boys in the Norwegian Head-Fi Community has been working on listing all or most relevant Electrostatic "Headphones" and Energizers/Amps:
> 
> Electrostatic Headphones :
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...5oY8T0mng09QaEdkDtI10FXl_Hg/edit?usp=drivesdk
> ...



I see that you have included my Omega clone in the spreadsheet.  In fact, I have a few more versions of my DIY phones, should they be in there too?  By the way, I never sell my DIY headphones.  Therefore, people can't buy them from anywhere.


----------



## chinsettawong

I have updated some data of my DIY headphones.  If anymore information is needed, let me know.


----------



## Thobjo

chinsettawong said:


> I have updated some data of my DIY headphones.  If anymore information is needed, let me know.


Great stuff, I think all info is good info  

Maybe you are one of the few able to make a short introduction to different materials Mylars etc? I get it that there are alot of variables such as type of mount, dampening, stretchforce and so on but it atleast to me seems different materials and generations of them, thickness etc gives different qualities and capabilities.


----------



## oneguy

Part 1 of Perun Rock review for those that are interested: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/perun-electrostatic-headphone-impressions.872273/post-17156919


----------



## zomkung

Thobjo said:


> Me and some of the boys in the Norwegian Head-Fi Community have been working on listing all or most relevant Electrostatic "Headphones" and Energizers/Amps:
> 
> Electrostatic Headphones :
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...5oY8T0mng09QaEdkDtI10FXl_Hg/edit?usp=drivesdk
> ...



Is the o2's driver thinner than 009?

I have read somewhere in the headfi, but Cannot find the real infos regarding this.


----------



## Thobjo

zomkung said:


> Is the o2's driver thinner than 009?
> 
> I have read somewhere in the headfi, but Cannot find the real infos regarding this.


I have no idea, hopefully we will find out as people chime in


----------



## Kiats

Decided to try my hand at Yahoo Auctions JP. Took a punt on a SR 407.  Enjoying it right now.


----------



## oneguy

Kiats said:


> Decided to try my hand at Yahoo Auctions JP. Took a punt on a SR 407.  Enjoying it right now.


Decent site if you can find sellers willing to ship out of the country. Enjoy the new cans!


----------



## HBen

Glad to report that we could finally have a happy family gathering of four generations ... of STAX flagship headphones


----------



## oneguy

HBen said:


> Glad to report that we could finally have a happy family gathering of four generations ... of STAX flagship headphones


Flagships rocking some of the best headphone stands ever. I like it!


----------



## mrmarbach

Hi y’all

I have a big head and SR007 and SRX9k.

I get a much better seal with X9k. I also experienced the fart for the first time while wearing them. With SR007 the bottom of the drivers seem to lift off my head, breaking the seal. 

Other than a nice ribbon tying them on, is there any other adjustment I can do to the band to change this? Or the cup rotation? (Of the latter I’m not sure what the ideal setting is.)


----------



## padam

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/omega-ii-sr-007-tweak.166435/


----------



## Precaud

I just posted a detailed upgrade for the SRM-252S:
Upgrading the Stax SRM-252S
Comments/questions welcome.


----------



## catscratch

With the 007, rotate the pads so that the seam points at your temple. This way, the thick part of the earpad is behind and below the ear and the thin part is towards the temple. Also, you can bend the headband, it's made of spring steel and is designed to be bent into shape. Lastly, the elastic can be a bit short for some people, but with a little bit of DIY you can replace it with a longer one.


----------



## buzzlulu

oneguy said:


> Flagships rocking some of the best headphone stands ever. I like it!


Not familiar with them.  Brand and link by any chance?


----------



## oneguy

buzzlulu said:


> Not familiar with them.  Brand and link by any chance?


Out of production:

https://silverstonetek.com/en/product/info/accessories/EBA01/


----------



## oneguy

Part 2 of Perun Rock review for those that are interested: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/perun-electrostatic-headphone-impressions.872273/post-17163828


----------



## lupoal

Hi,

I need suggestion/help... I'm close to buy a L300Limited + srm-006Ts, I've a doubt about the 006Ts... if I'm right (but I'm a real rookie about Stax world) the 006Ts has, compared to the prevoius 006T, the "safety" resistors at the output... now, here are couple of pics








in the second picture you can see the resistor at the output... but in the first picture, taken on the other side of the pcb with light in background, you can see that resistor is shortcircuited... ?
Does it make any sense? a short circuit in praxis eliminate the resistor from the circuit... or in this case we have completely new rules about how short circuit act?
Question is: is this upgraded version, from 006T to 006Ts, really safer, as should be, or ?
I would like to understand... thks in advance for help


----------



## BenF

Precaud said:


> I just posted a detailed upgrade for the SRM-252S:
> Upgrading the Stax SRM-252S
> Comments/questions welcome.


It's easier and safer just to buy a Linear Power Supply: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-1383#post-16486586


----------



## Precaud

BenF said:


> It's easier and safer just to buy a Linear Power Supply: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-1383#post-16486586



Why "easier and safer" ?


----------



## BenF

Precaud said:


> Why "easier and safer" ?


No chance of electrocuting yourself or damaging the amp.


----------



## Precaud (Oct 2, 2022)

BenF said:


> No chance of electrocuting yourself or damaging the amp.


It is baseless and irresponsible for you to assume those risks are present for the alternatives I suggested.


----------



## BenF

Precaud said:


> It is baseless and irresponsible for you to assume those risks are present for the alternatives I suggested.


I guess Stax is an irresponsible company, printing warnings like this one on the back of 252S:





They also include this baseless warning on the first page of the manual:


----------



## Precaud

BenF said:


> I guess Stax is an irresponsible company, printing warnings like this one on the back of 252S:
> 
> 
> They also include this baseless warning on the first page of the manual:


If someone is not comfortable working with electronic circuits, then it goes without saying that this mod is not for you. Don't undertake this as a "first project".
The mods do not compromise the amp's safety or reliability in operation.
Do you have something besides scare-mongering to bring to the conversation? Sheesh.


----------



## BenF

Precaud said:


> If someone is not comfortable working with electronic circuits, then it goes without saying that this mod is not for you. Don't undertake this as a "first project".
> The mods do not compromise the amp's safety or reliability in operation.
> Do you have something besides scare-mongering to bring to the conversation? Sheesh.


I think it's safe to say that most people are not qualified to work on high voltage circuits - hence the "easier and safer" alternative I suggested.
Why are you taking this so personally? I haven't said a single word about your mod.


----------



## Precaud

BenF said:


> I think it's safe to say that most people are not qualified to work on high voltage circuits - hence the "easier and safer" alternative I suggested.
> 
> Why are you taking this so personally? I haven't said a single word about your mod.


1. Sir, you are the one conflating the issues. Your "easier and safer" suggestion only relates to choosing which 12V power supply to use. The circuit mods are a separate matter. The supply you're recommending is good enough and will work fine but it is not any safer and is frankly overkill in this application. Inside the 252S, the only thing that uses the 12V supply directly is the power LED and the PWM chip. You don't need a Jung-based super-regulator for that.

2. Working on HV circuits does not require any special qualifications. Replacing HV parts is not any different than replacing other ones. It's safe, because one doesn't work on the circuits when they're powered up. And, the fact is, the 252S HV circuit doesn't generate enough power to hurt you. A couple milliAmps at 200V will generate a mild sting, yes; but hurt, no.

It's not personal. It's about keeping the discussion based in facts, not speculation and fears. The clear message I get from your posts is that you're not a candidate for doing these (or perhaps any) electronic mods. But for some reason you're making a big stink about it. I don't get it.


----------



## BenF

Precaud said:


> ... Inside the 252S, the only thing that uses the 12V supply directly is the power LED and the PWM chip. You don't need a Jung-based super-regulator for that.


It doesn't matter which parts of 252 get the 12v directly and which indirectly - feeding a higher quality signal will result in less noise.



Precaud said:


> 2. Working on HV circuits does not require any special qualifications. Replacing HV parts is not any different than replacing other ones. It's safe, because one doesn't work on the circuits when they're powered up. And, the fact is, the 252S HV circuit doesn't generate enough power to hurt you. A couple milliAmps at 200V will generate a mild sting, yes; but hurt, no.


I hope you will understand if when choosing between your recommendation on safety and Stax's, I will choose to follow Stax's advice.
Vast majority (I'd guess well over 90%) of people in this thread use electrostatic amplifiers, but do not build or mod them (unlike headphones, which many people do mod personally). For these people your mod (as great as it may be), is not an option.

Anyway, to avoid derailing this thread, +1 to ignore list.


----------



## Precaud (Oct 2, 2022)

BenF said:


> It doesn't matter which parts of 252 get the 12v directly and which indirectly - feeding a higher quality signal will result in less noise.


Not true. Circuit context does matter. I've tried and tested several of them, and my measurements and listening say that any reasonably-regulated supply is just fine here for the raw -12V. Some of the advantages of using something like a Jung super-regulator (super-low output impedance) are totally lost by connecting it with a couple feet of cable between two barrel plugs.



BenF said:


> I hope you will understand if when choosing between your recommendation on safety and Stax's, I will choose to follow Stax's advice.


They put that on there for legal reasons. My advice is common sense. If you're not comfortable modding electronic circuits, don't do it. My toaster oven also says "danger - no user-serviceable parts inside", but it's not going to stop me from fixing it if/when it breaks.


BenF said:


> Vast majority (I'd guess well over 90%) of people in this thread use electrostatic amplifiers, but do not build or mod them (unlike headphones, which many people do mod personally). For these people your mod (as great as it may be), is not an option.


That's ok. I've always considered equipment mods to be self-qualifying; people who aren't interested or can't do them ignore them and walk on by. I've also started a thread about the mods in the DIY forum, so perhaps interested modders should go there to discuss, so as not to ruffle any more sensitive feathers here.
Stax SRM-252S Driver Unit Upgrade
We already have one guy who is ordering the parts and hopefully will share his experience with us.



BenF said:


> Anyway, to avoid derailing this thread, +1 to ignore list.


Good idea.


----------



## greggf (Oct 3, 2022)

delete


----------



## Kiats

Picked up a KGST this morning and now enjoying it with the 009.


----------



## Kiats

Lovely pair of early Lambda Professionals came today, courtesy of @spritzer.  Gorgeous balanced sound signature.


----------



## Kiats

The Stax X9000 has landed. Big shout out to Jeremy from AV One for making this happen!


----------



## prtuc2

That wooden box just not too appealing and harder to transport, I prefer the Stax SR-007MKA or II plastic carrying case.


----------



## oneguy

You transport your Stax that often?


----------



## prtuc2

oneguy said:


> You transport your Stax that often?


Not really, other than CanJam but would definitely open to have plastic case as an option.


----------



## oneguy

That would just be one more box for me to keep track of, lol. I am box hoarder because I move so much. This is my currently stack of audio boxes for my upcoming move. 




That’s not even everything!


----------



## lsantista

prtuc2 said:


> That wooden box just not too appealing and harder to transport, I prefer the Stax SR-007MKA or II plastic carrying case.


I like it so much aesthetically that I keep it at my desk at all times. Also that laser like , tight cutoff! It does seem to conserve the headphone and itself internally so well.. 009 users may comment on long term.
Of course it is bulky and the wood is soft, will dent easily. The 007 case is way better for transport


----------



## Mach3

Kiats said:


> The Stax X9000 has landed. Big shout out to Jeremy from AV One for making this happen!


You're not far off from opening a Stax museums with your current collection mate.


----------



## Kiats (Oct 6, 2022)

Mach3 said:


> You're not far off from opening a Stax museums with your current collection mate.


Haha! Enjoy the development of the stax sound over the years. 😆

Hopefully, the Omega will make an appearance in the collection.


----------



## Thobjo

I present to you the Stax L300 Closedback, wanted to try something different.


----------



## oneguy

Thobjo said:


> I present to you the Stax L300 Closedback, wanted to try something different.


What’s the verdict?


----------



## Thobjo (Oct 14, 2022)

oneguy said:


> What’s the verdict?



It is good, great even, will try dynamat or something like it inside the cup for dampening and still messing around tuning EQ.

Clearly a trade off, sound isolation is sometimes needed, I plan to take these to Lan events.
Gamerstuff dont do it anymore for me and all my sets of cans was openback so doing this to the L300 kinda made sense   I have not heard much TOTL closedbacks so not much reference or ground for comparizon.

I think it is very promising.


----------



## Thobjo

Thobjo said:


> Me and some of the boys in the Norwegian Head-Fi Community have been working on listing all or most relevant Electrostatic "Headphones" and Energizers/Amps:
> 
> Electrostatic Headphones :
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...5oY8T0mng09QaEdkDtI10FXl_Hg/edit?usp=drivesdk
> ...



There has been some great work done here, thanks to everyone for taking part  (y)


----------



## SHAMuuu

Thobjo said:


> I present to you the Stax L300 Closedback, wanted to try something different.




That looks really cool, and it's nice to see something like that when the near unobtanium closed stax becomes rarer by the day.

Have you ever seen the internals of the sr5 gold?






It uses what looks to be micron glass foam. Very similar to the one used by cd900st by Sony. It sits directly behind the driver.

Same with the stax! Not sure if exactly same as the sigma foam, could be.

But I was caught off guard a bit as it covers the entirety of the back of the driver. I am thinking it gives it the warmth and also kills all harshness. Similar statements are for the 900st vs 7506 which does not have this paticular foam. Again, directly behind the driver.

So curious if you used some form of cotton or felt etc.

I notice with some estat there is nothing on the back of some of them (making them see through), but also for some of those models, they can be "etheral" but also thin and hot on treble. 

Just something i've been pondering regarding the estat sound.


----------



## Thobjo

SHAMuuu said:


> That looks really cool, and it's nice to see something like that when the near unobtanium closed stax becomes rarer by the day.
> 
> Have you ever seen the internals of the sr5 gold?
> 
> ...


----------



## Thobjo

I have no dampening inside the cup per now, thinking of trying something wool like  or maybe dynamat.

I have a friend with a measuring rig and more modding know how then me, I think I will ask him to measure and tune to get his impressions


----------



## simontoyou

It's been 15 years ever since I wanted a pair of Stax, and I finally made the jump! Got myself a pair of SR-L700's and an SRM-727II thanks to a classified listing here! Been enjoying them so far but I've been trying to get rid of PC audio buzzing.

Trying to switch some audio cables around to see if anything works, will report later!


----------



## ufospls2 (Oct 18, 2022)

Hi Guys,

I spent some time with the Stax D50 and SRM-500T, figured this was the best thread to share it.






Hi Guys,

Today we are talking about a couple of amplifiers, well, one is a DAC/Amp combo, from Stax Headphones. These are both electrostatic amps, and are nearer the entry level in terms of new pricing for desktop electrostatic amplification. The D50 is a solid state DAC/Amp combo unit, and the SRM-500T is Stax’s current entry level tube amp. The D50 retails for $1260USD, and the 500T retails for $1499USD, so they are fairly similar in their pricing. One of the main barriers for people who are interested in electrostatic headphones is the amplification needs, so I was curious how a couple of Stax’s more affordable amp models would fair in a comparison.

The D50 also includes a ESS Sabre 9018 based dac, so can be used as an all in one unit. The 500T is purely an amplifier, so does also need a DAC of some form to be used.

I tested the D50 as an all in one, and also with a couple other DACs to get an idea of its separate sections performance. With the 500T I used a Topping D10S, and a Schiit Audio Yggdrasil A2.

Now, the Stax own amplifiers get a fairly rough reputation from the DIY crowd which surrounds the electrostatic end of the headphone hobby. I’ve owned a few of those designs (BHSE, DIYT2, KGSSHV Carbon) so I was curious how I would feel about the more entry level Stax amps, and how they would perform in comparison to the more expensive DIY designs.






D50 Front
First, lets talk about the D50 as an all in one unit. It is pretty much a plug and play solution for electrostatic headphones. I just used my laptop, direct into its USB input, and tried it with a few various headphones. As an all in one, its slightly bright, and somewhat lean sounding, but has a decent amount of power whilst also being a very manageable size. If you are looking for a decent all in one performer, and don’t have a lot of space, the D50 makes a good argument for its use in that situation. The DAC section struck me as being slightly bright and sharp sounding, and the sonics did improve using a slightly warmer and thicker sounding DAC to balance out the response between the two. With that being said, I think that if you already have a DAC on hand, the SRM-400S might be the better buy, as its amp section is supposedly slightly better than the D50’s, and costs about the same (1200USD.) I think that the D50 is best used as an all in one, and certainly has enough power for the Lambda series, and the 009S. For the 007mk2 I think I would recommend something with a bit more power on tap, as they are a very power hungry headphone. The X9000 is likely to be used with higher end amplification, but if the D50 is all you have, it would work in a pinch. As an all in one, easy to use, and compact solution, the D50 works very well with the Lambda series headphones. Their slightly warmer and less bright signature pairs well with the D50’s leaner brighter nature, and I never really had any problems with the sonic performance I was getting.






SRM-500T Front
The SRM-500T is a tube based amp. As mentioned previously, it is also an amp only solution, and it’s a few hundred dollars more expensive at MSRP than the D50. There is a slight warmth and “tube” sound to its overall sonic signature, but its not overly gooey and thick sounding as some tube amps can be. It manages 100v less overall in terms of output power than the D50, but for the Lambda series, it worked especially well. I just found it to be a more preferable sonic signature and easy to listen to. I tried my Topping D10s which is an ESS Sabre based unit, similar to the 9018 in the D50, and that did work quite well. I’d say the performance between the two DAC units was quite similar. Stepping up to my Schiit Yggdrasil A2, the sound did absolutely improve, but spending $2599 on a DAC for a $1500 amp maybe doesn’t make a ton of sense. There was slightly more detail from the Amp section of the D50, but the overall tonal balance, timbre, and sense of ease from the 500T, to my ears, was preferable.






D50 Rear
I think that if you need a DAC, or want an all in one, smaller unit, the D50 is the way to go between the two. If you happen to already have a DAC of some form, and are going to be driving a pair of Lambdas, the 500T is the right choice. Or, if you have a DAC of some form, but want a slightly less warm and more detail oriented sound, I would guess the SRM-400S would be the right choice. With that being said, I think the 500T makes an argument for its use particularly with the Lambda series, as they just seemed to be a really synergistic pairing.






500T Rear
In comparison to the (sometimes much) more expensive DIY options, these two Stax models aren’t awful. I think that the difference between the two categories of amps has been overblown over the years. Are the good DIY builds of the BHSE, and KGSSHV Carbon better? Yes, they are. They are more powerful, supply better, more detailed and seemingly faster performance, BUT, if you are using a pair of Lambdas or easier to drive electrostatic headphones, and just want to enjoy them without breaking the bank (as much…,) some of these Stax own amp designs do the job perfectly well.

The D50 is a nice, all in one combo unit. It isn’t very large, it looks nice, and would fit in on any modern computer desktop. The SRM-500T fits the more traditional look of Stax amplifiers, being long and narrow. It has the preferable sonic performance to my ears, but does have slightly less power and detail than the D50. Really, I think it depends on your needs, sonic preferences, and the headphones you will be using with it, as to which is the better choice for your uses.






Size Comparison
I think the main take away I have from my time with these two amplifiers is this – Don’t let amplification needs, and the supposed drop in performance in Stax’s own amps vs the popular DIY designs stop you from trying out electrostatic headphones. If you are simply curious, and buy a pair of L300, and pair them with the D50 or SRM-500T, it would let you try out electrostatic headphones, and see if you like them. You can always buy more expensive things later on should you end up really getting into the hobby, but the Stax amps are more affordable, and still let you drive your headphones to let you hear what they are all about. With the Lambda series in particular, I’ve found they don’t scale as high as the Omega series with more expensive amplification, so maybe a 500T would be all you would ever need.

I’d certainly recommend trying out the Stax amps if you are a beginner, and I really enjoyed my time getting to know a couple of them. “Theres always a bigger fish” as Qui-Gon Jin would say.


----------



## simontoyou (Oct 18, 2022)

ufospls2 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I spent some time with the Stax D50 and SRM-500T, figured this was the best thread to share it.
> 
> ...



Great reviews! I was always curious about the D50 since it's a "portable" amp and I'll have to check it out some day at a meet or something. I definitely can't wait to get into the higher end cans that Stax offers. The first time I heard the Omega 2s over a decade ago, I thought, "these are the best headphones I have ever heard." That was with the KGSS.

Now there are even better options (or so I've heard) for headphones and amps but they are so much more expensive. I'll be saving up and I've even been thinking about stepping into the DIY audio world to not only save a bunch of money but also learn more about electronic components, how to work with PCBs, and all the other fun stuff involved with it. Your review has definitely nudged me towards that direction!


----------



## BlackSport350

I'm restocking my electrostatic stash after abandoning them all back in 2010. 

For running X9000s and Audeze CRBNs, what are the absolute best options that are actually available? 

The Carbon CC is at the top of my list. I love the Kerry T2 but it is not readily available that I'm aware of and the $14K price is bonkers, The BHSE excited me back in 2010 but after being around them for 15 years, the mystique has somewhat worn off (I know they are fantastic and have been improved considerably through the years). I love Woo but don't really feel that they are at the top of the Stax game (I could be wrong). I have the skills and machining resources to build something but ack the time so that's not an option unless it literally arrived as a complete bill of goods including finished chassis. 

Am I missing anything? Possibly something from Kevin Gilmore (I'm not sure if he is building anything these days). 

And if anyone is getting rid of something special, let me know. 

Thanks!


----------



## BassicScience

BlackSport350 said:


> I'm restocking my electrostatic stash after abandoning them all back in 2010.
> 
> For running X9000s and Audeze CRBNs, what are the absolute best options that are actually available?
> 
> ...


Although it's not the "absolute best option" most likely, the Eksonic Aeras offers a lot of the performance of the DIY T2 at roughly half the cost. I can attest that it makes a superb pairing with the X9000. I even wrote a short review of the combo toward the end of my "Estat Summit" thread, if you're interested. I haven't heard the CRBN with the Aeras, but imagine that combo would also play very well together. @number1sixerfan or other folks could probably weigh in there.


----------



## ardbeg1975

BassicScience said:


> Although it's not the "absolute best option" most likely, the Eksonic Aeras offers a lot of the performance of the DIY T2 at roughly half the cost. I can attest that it makes a superb pairing with the X9000. I even wrote a short review of the combo toward the end of my "Estat Summit" thread, if you're interested. I haven't heard the CRBN with the Aeras, but imagine that combo would also play very well together. @number1sixerfan or other folks could probably weigh in there.


Linear Tube Audio’s eStat amp may also be an option.


----------



## BlackSport350

BassicScience said:


> Although it's not the "absolute best option" most likely, the Eksonic Aeras offers a lot of the performance of the DIY T2 at roughly half the cost. I can attest that it makes a superb pairing with the X9000. I even wrote a short review of the combo toward the end of my "Estat Summit" thread, if you're interested. I haven't heard the CRBN with the Aeras, but imagine that combo would also play very well together. @number1sixerfan or other folks could probably weigh in there.



Thanks. I did read your writeup and it certainly got my attention but at the price, I wasn't sure it was viable vs the Carbon CC. Unless I'm mistaken, the Aeras is in the $7K range.


----------



## BlackSport350

ardbeg1975 said:


> Linear Tube Audio’s eStat amp may also be an option.


True. It has gotten some high praise.


----------



## Gazza (Oct 19, 2022)

@BlackSport350 If you already have a very high quality speaker amplifier/prepower combo you may want to try using them with an electrostatic energiser to power your stats before splashing out on a dedicated amp. I'm using a Woo audio WEE energiser to feed my Stax SR-009 and the sound quality I get is simply stunning. This lets me enjoy the fruits of my Manley pre (after upgrading all the tubes) combined with my lovely Densen power amp which already is an excellent combo when powering my speakers.

Would a dedicated stats amp sound better? Maybe. But the cost of admission to better what I have would be absurd I feel and would feel like I'm replicating components I already have.

Downsides? Be very careful with the volume control. There is always the danger you may have it cranked when listening to speakers, switch to your stats without lowering the volume by mistake and damage the drivers. I'm always hyper-careful to not do this but it's something to call out.

EDIT: Another potential downside is that using one amp to drive both speakers and stats means it's harder to juggle and compensate for wildly different sounding transducers. My SR-009 are almost at the opposite spectrum of my Sonus Faber which can sometimes result in a particular recording not suiting one as well as the other. Having said that, my components are balanced well enough that 99% of the time it gels and upgrading valves ameliorates the issue.

Anyhoo, I'm not saying you shouldn't buy a dedicated e-stat amp but to try your own set-up with an energiser if you already have a quality amp in the chain. The results may surprise you.


----------



## BlackSport350

Gazza said:


> @BlackSport350 If you already have a very high quality speaker amplifier/prepower combo you may want to try using them with an electrostatic energiser to power your stats before splashing out on a dedicated amp. I'm using a Woo audio WEE energiser to feed my Stax SR-009 and the sound quality I get is simply stunning. This lets me enjoy the fruits of my Manley pre (after upgrading all the tubes) combined with my lovely Densen power amp which already is an excellent combo when powering my speakers.
> 
> Would a dedicated stats amp sound better? Maybe. But the cost of admission to better what I have would be absurd I feel and would feel like I'm replicating components I already have.
> 
> ...


This had crossed my mind and I have no shortage of high end speaker amps but I just see too many compromises and convenience issues as I don’t want the headphone rig where my speaker rig is. 

However, imagine Soulution 701 or Air Tight ATM211 monos running your headphones!


----------



## number1sixerfan

BlackSport350 said:


> I'm restocking my electrostatic stash after abandoning them all back in 2010.
> 
> For running X9000s and Audeze CRBNs, what are the absolute best options that are actually available?
> 
> ...



I think the Carbon CC makes sense and would be up there on my list as well if looking for something reasonable and for those two as well. I didn't love the BHSE with the x9000 after hearing them through the Aeras and T2, but did enjoy it with the CRBN (although it scaled a lot with the T2, so you may want to start with something more powerful). Get the feelings on the T2 price (although worth the purchase in my book if looking in that range), but you do get a lot of that performance for a fraction of the price in the Aeras.

The cheaper priced Woo options do better with brighter stats imo and are a slight step behind the competition technically, so I probably wouldn't look in that direction even if used. If price to performance ratio is the highest concern, again finding a used Carbon and seeing what you like/don't like with the pairings and then moving up at some point (if desired) makes a lot of sense to me. Keep in mind, the x9000 is easier to power to peak performance, the CRBN a bit harder.


----------



## BlackSport350

number1sixerfan said:


> I think the Carbon CC makes sense and would be up there on my list as well if looking for something reasonable and for those two as well. I didn't love the BHSE with the x9000 after hearing them through the Aeras and T2, but did enjoy it with the CRBN (although it scaled a lot with the T2, so you may want to start with something more powerful). Get the feelings on the T2 price (although worth the purchase in my book if looking in that range), but you do get a lot of that performance for a fraction of the price in the Aeras.
> 
> The cheaper priced Woo options do better with brighter stats imo and are a slight step behind the competition technically, so I probably wouldn't look in that direction even if used. If price to performance ratio is the highest concern, again finding a used Carbon and seeing what you like/don't like with the pairings and then moving up at some point (if desired) makes a lot of sense to me. Keep in mind, the x9000 is easier to power to peak performance, the CRBN a bit harder.


Any further thoughts on the Carbon CC vs the Aeras with both the X9000 and CRBN?

It sounds like the Aeras keeps a lot of the T2 performance. 

Thanks.


----------



## Gazza

BlackSport350 said:


> This had crossed my mind and I have no shortage of high end speaker amps but I just see too many compromises and convenience issues as I don’t want the headphone rig where my speaker rig is.
> 
> However, imagine Soulution 701 or *Air Tight ATM211 monos running your headphones!*



I'm drooling thinking about using Air Tight with Stax...


----------



## Kiats

number1sixerfan said:


> I think the Carbon CC makes sense and would be up there on my list as well if looking for something reasonable and for those two as well. I didn't love the BHSE with the x9000 after hearing them through the Aeras and T2, but did enjoy it with the CRBN (although it scaled a lot with the T2, so you may want to start with something more powerful). Get the feelings on the T2 price (although worth the purchase in my book if looking in that range), but you do get a lot of that performance for a fraction of the price in the Aeras.
> 
> The cheaper priced Woo options do better with brighter stats imo and are a slight step behind the competition technically, so I probably wouldn't look in that direction even if used. If price to performance ratio is the highest concern, again finding a used Carbon and seeing what you like/don't like with the pairings and then moving up at some point (if desired) makes a lot of sense to me. Keep in mind, the x9000 is easier to power to peak performance, the CRBN a bit harder.


Thanks for your views. How did you think the Carbon do with the CRBN?


----------



## BlackSport350

Gazza said:


> I'm drooling thinking about using Air Tight with Stax...


It would only cost me $850 for the Mjolnir box to try. 😀


----------



## BlackSport350

Kiats said:


> Thanks for your views. How did you think the Carbon do with the CRBN?


I’ve heard it’s an excellent match. Especially as Audeze has used that combination to demo.


----------



## Gazza

BlackSport350 said:


> It would only cost me $850 for the Mjolnir box to try. 😀



I've thought about the Mjolnir but the lack of a toggle to switch between speaker or headphone out is a no-go for me. But you should definitely give it a try!


----------



## Chefguru

BlackSport350 said:


> I'm restocking my electrostatic stash after abandoning them all back in 2010.
> 
> For running X9000s and Audeze CRBNs, what are the absolute best options that are actually available?
> 
> ...



Correct on Woo

Kerry also has a smaller “mini-t2” that directly competes with the Carbon & BHSE.

The carbon (cc or not) is the hands down best pick for CRBN of the three but the amps are more of a preference game for the x9000.
Megatron is a very rare amp (Mjolnir made like 5~ units) that can be a step above the Carbon/bhse group depending on the build. Mjolnir’s is said to just be on par with his carbon.

T2 is clearly a level above those 4 amps.

Headamp has a new amp that’s maybe within a year of release that is similar to a megatron but used DHT tubes and is rumored to cost closer to 20k. It will be even less available than the T2.


----------



## BlackSport350

Chefguru said:


> Correct on Woo
> 
> Kerry also has a smaller “mini-t2” that directly competes with the Carbon & BHSE.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply. I did not know about the Megatron or the new Headamp. 

Any experience with the Audiovalve amps and how they stack up? I’m not sure if they are still in business but their amps are lookers and pretty versatile.


----------



## Kiats

BlackSport350 said:


> I’ve heard it’s an excellent match. Especially as Audeze has used that combination to demo.


Thanks! Glad to hear that. 🙏


----------



## number1sixerfan

Kiats said:


> Thanks for your views. How did you think the Carbon do with the CRBN?



Haven't directly compared, just from what I know of and understand, I think it's potentially good pairing, especially if looking in that price range. I've done thorough direct comparison of the BHSE/Aeras/T2, had the Woo Wes a good while right before that, and have owned/heard a lot of amps over the years. But no direct comparison with the CRBN/Carbon. 



BlackSport350 said:


> Any further thoughts on the Carbon CC vs the Aeras with both the X9000 and CRBN?
> 
> It sounds like the Aeras keeps a lot of the T2 performance.
> 
> Thanks.



Not much due to what I mentioned above, but the only other thing I think worth mentioning is that like the T2, the Aeras has really excellent tonal synergy with most stats, which is a rarity with electrostatic amps imo because of how drastically varied all of the stats out there are. It pairs really well with both of those headphones, as well as with others that are drastically different such as the 009, L300 etc. 

And actually, not to contradict my prior statement, as again I think the CRBN is just harder to drive, but it's probably going to be equally as important to ensure you have good synergy for the x9000 given how varied people's perspectives on the x9000's tonality/presentation seems to be (compared to the CRBN in which there's more straightforward consensus). I would check the x9000 thread for feedback/impressions with the Carbon and it as well. 

As far as the T2/Aeras topic, the T2 is quite a bit more spacious and more resolving, and takes the bass into overdrive performance wise.. but the Aeras comes close tonality wise, while still being really excellent in all the other technical categories. 

Lastly, I just don't think you're going to go wrong either way lol.


----------



## Thobjo

BlackSport350 said:


> I'm restocking my electrostatic stash after abandoning them all back in 2010.
> 
> For running X9000s and Audeze CRBNs, what are the absolute best options that are actually available?
> 
> ...




KG GG?

Some builders out there, Soren(Søren) Blix in Denmark f.ex.


----------



## zolkis

BlackSport350 said:


> Am I missing anything? Possibly something from Kevin Gilmore (I'm not sure if he is building anything these days).


Popular wisdom says DIY T2, Carbon CC, Grounded Grid, BHSE are the reference, and they are way above standard Stax amps IMHO. The BHSE is neutral, smooth and musical, but not any more my preferred amp. I like the Carbon CC more. But since I tend to prefer tubes, I'd shoot for a DIY GG, if not a T2.

Currently I use a DIY tube amp from an obscure small EU company that develops designs for other companies, an old acquaintance. It's their first e-stat design (on my request), a ground-up prototype still in course of evolution, doesn't share any circuit with any of the current Stax designs, which is risky, but interesting nonetheless. 
Not yet commercial, but it will be 5-6K eur depending on options - not cheap. 
Mine is still missing some further potential improvements, but it's already end-game level for me. Not as technically perfect at max volume as the KG designs, pretty much DIY (p2p wiring, garage level assembly etc.), it likely won't survive any Stax mafia scrutiny (well, what does), and childhood issues might come up, but boy they are musical. Like cost-no-object level musical. Elevated my headphones to a new level. I can't even listen to my speakers any more (okay, upgrades coming) - which I used to prefer over my 007 Mk1 and 009. If and when they become commercial, I will share the link. They are huge (45x45x30 cm), somewhat inconvenient with the dual mono design and maybe a bit expensive for that garage-level internal look - which will probably improve when productized -, but the sound... goosebumps. 





Possibly there are other interesting amps in development, but I don't think good sound comes cheap to Stax headphones.
Erik Konka has relatively cheap (~1.6-2K eur) and good sounding tube amps, if power requirements are not extreme.


----------



## KDS315 (Oct 21, 2022)

Audiovalve unfortunately experienced the passing of their owner and inventor of their amps a few months ago.


----------



## mulveling (Oct 21, 2022)

KDS315 said:


> Audiovalve unfortunately experienced the passing of their owner and inventor of their amps a few months ago. Seen a few sold soon after that here in Germany.


Very sad to hear that. I was never really interested in their electrostatic amps, but the RKV was an important part of the fiber of early head-fi. An RKV Mk II was my first tube amp, and I still have fond memories of those days and some listening sessions with it. Well known for its epic pairings to AKG K340 and K1000. But also made the Sennheiser HD580/600/650 sound so lush and beautiful! Tubes are still magic to me now, but they were REALLY magic back than!


----------



## BlackSport350

KDS315 said:


> Audiovalve unfortunately experienced the passing of their owner and inventor of their amps a few months ago.


I recall but there are still some units out there. The real question becomes if they can be serviced by anyone.


----------



## BlackSport350

Thobjo said:


> KG GG?
> 
> Some builders out there, Soren(Søren) Blix in Denmark f.ex.



The KGGG really has my interest but I have no idea how available they are from anyone at the moment.


----------



## BlackSport350

zolkis said:


> Popular wisdom says DIY T2, Carbon CC, Grounded Grid, BHSE are the reference, and they are way above standard Stax amps IMHO. The BHSE is neutral, smooth and musical, but not any more my preferred amp. I like the Carbon CC more. But since I tend to prefer tubes, I'd shoot for a DIY GG, if not a T2.
> 
> Currently I use a DIY tube amp from an obscure small EU company that develops designs for other companies, an old acquaintance. It's their first e-stat design (on my request), a ground-up prototype still in course of evolution, doesn't share any circuit with any of the current Stax designs, which is risky, but interesting nonetheless.
> Not yet commercial, but it will be 5-6K eur depending on options - not cheap.
> ...


 Great looking project! 

I think the KGGG is the most interesting to me but availability is a question. The Carbon CC is the safest bet and the Kerry T2 is the ultimate.


----------



## ufospls2

BlackSport350 said:


> Great looking project!
> 
> I think the KGGG is the most interesting to me but availability is a question. The Carbon CC is the safest bet and the Kerry T2 is the ultimate.


PM'd.


----------



## thinker

zolkis said:


> Popular wisdom says DIY T2, Carbon CC, Grounded Grid, BHSE are the reference, and they are way above standard Stax amps IMHO. The BHSE is neutral, smooth and musical, but not any more my preferred amp. I like the Carbon CC more. But since I tend to prefer tubes, I'd shoot for a DIY GG, if not a T2.
> 
> Currently I use a DIY tube amp from an obscure small EU company that develops designs for other companies, an old acquaintance. It's their first e-stat design (on my request), a ground-up prototype still in course of evolution, doesn't share any circuit with any of the current Stax designs, which is risky, but interesting nonetheless.
> Not yet commercial, but it will be 5-6K eur depending on options - not cheap.
> ...


This amp has great synergy with X9K ,i use NOS Siemens tubes ,it’s by far the most musical stax amp


----------



## KDS315

What’s “this amp”??


----------



## zolkis

KDS315 said:


> What’s “this amp”??



His amp in the picture, which is the same amp as mine, in a different enclosure (veneered plywood), with somewhat improved circuit, but slightly different parts (I have better capacitors, he has better tubes). The amp is not commercial yet, so not really helpful to know "there is this insanely good sounding new amp" until one can actually buy it, and until more people can review it.


----------



## SludgeSwan

Hi everyone,
I have quite a small head, so even in the smallest setting, my Lambda Pro is still a bit too large for me. At the moment, I put a small towel on my head to solve that  Can anyone recommend an aftermarket headband padding or something of that sort that works well with Stax? I live in Germany, so it should be available to order from Europe. Thanks!


----------



## hpheaven

Hey everyone,
Can someone help me determine what brand are these 6CG7 tubes that were found in an SR-007tII? 
Thanks a lot!


----------



## simontoyou

simontoyou said:


> It's been 15 years ever since I wanted a pair of Stax, and I finally made the jump! Got myself a pair of SR-L700's and an SRM-727II thanks to a classified listing here! Been enjoying them so far but I've been trying to get rid of PC audio buzzing.
> 
> Trying to switch some audio cables around to see if anything works, will report later!


Just a quick update on my PC audio buzzing:

My setup includes an old Gilmore V2 Preamp which was creating the buzzing. I swapped out audio cables but that only helped a little bit. However, I tried some DeoxIT cleaner/protector and the results were incredible! I cleaned out all my old connections but I think the major contribution was the "Gold" protectant that comes with the kit. The static isn't gone completely, but it is not noticeable at the max volume I listen at, so a big thanks goes to that company!


----------



## mulveling (Oct 29, 2022)

> My setup includes an old Gilmore V2 Preamp which was creating the buzzing.


Wow, that Gilmore V2 is a blast from the past! It was my first really good amp, circa early 2000s. Used and loved it with HD580, HD600 and HD650. Owned the V2 twice, and also a V2SE (briefly). My first V2 eventually died, sadly. It also came with a ground hum (electrical, not mechanical hum) that was resolved by slightly rotating the toroid transformer.

LOTS of clean gain on the V2, so could be good if you need a boost for a Stax amp paired with a low-output source. L700 is a nice choice too.


----------



## simontoyou

mulveling said:


> Wow, that Gilmore V2 is a blast from the past! It was my first really good amp, circa early 2000s. Used and loved it with HD580, HD600 and HD650. Owned the V2 twice, and also a V2SE (briefly). My first V2 eventually died, sadly. It also came with a ground hum (electrical, not mechanical hum) that was resolved by slightly rotating the toroid transformer.
> 
> LOTS of clean gain on the V2, so could be good if you need a boost for a Stax amp paired with a low-output source. L700 is a nice choice too.


I got it preowned around the same time and it still works well! Had to clean it out a few times but that's pretty much it. I'm really enjoying the combination and I'm not giving up on this bad boy until I'm mentally and spiritually prepared.

Here's hoping it'll last another decade!


----------



## Kiats

The mighty Stax Omega is back after replacement of the headphone arc by ES Labs HK. Benson also repaced the cable with NOS Omega cables. Happy boy!


----------



## ruhian

Hi all I have an option to grab a 007a or a 007 mkI at the same price ~$1,500, which should I choose?

Will get to test but not audition. Current setup is L700 and Srm1mkII (understand its not optimal).

While the 007 mkI seems more popular, its really old, and may run into issues and be hard to maintain

Your thoughts?


----------



## catscratch

What's the serial number prefix of the mk1? The best ones are the 70xxx serials followed by the 71xxx. The later ones start with SZ1 - those sound a bit darker and more muffled.

Basically, the main thing to watch out for with a mk1 is intermittance issues. The cables had inadequate strain relief, and occasionally the solder joint between cable and driver breaks. This will make the channel with the break cut in and out occasionally. So you want to make sure that this doesn't happen, you can fix it but you'll need to send it to someone qualified as it's a risky fix to do.

Channel balance issues are possible, if there is significant imbalance it points to driver issues and that will necessitate driver replacement. These days Stax will just throw in a pair of the latest mk2 drivers in there and they won't sound the same.

The other things to watch out for are pad wear and headband wear, the foam inside the pads doesn't last very long and if the pads are super worn you'll have to replace them. The headband elastic also wears out and becomes loose over time, but again you can just replace it with a generic elastic of a similar size and then cut it down to whatever size you want.

With a 007a, there have been so many revisions that it's hard so say what's what. Its sound will depend on what revision it is. But generally speaking, the mk1 will be better, and I'd take the mk1 if it's in good condition.


----------



## ruhian

@catscratch thank you for your advice sir. It is a 70xxx, pads and elastic seem in ok condition. Worried that the solder joint has been through wear and tear, and may be good now, but not so within a year or so...


----------



## mulveling

@ruhian 70xxx is very desirable! It all comes down to how much you can trust the seller (100% feedback at a minimum, etc) and if you have any appetite for the additional risk posed by older units. I gambled on a 71xxx unit and it was perfect - superb cosmetic & pad condition, no connection issues, perfect L/R channel balance, fantastic sound. The seller was/is active in posting here, and an extremely trustworthy fellow! I eventually sold it, but maybe should have kept that pair. I later got another 71xxx from my bff @purk, and as expected that was perfect as well. I can also happily confirm that the sound quality of the two units was 100% alike!


----------



## ruhian

@mulveling got it, it seems that mkI is simply higher risk higher reward...and I'm close to making the jump.

anyone with any bad experiences with the mk1s? or prefer the mk2 sound?

lastly on amp pairing - think my srm1mk1's wont bring out their full potential - heard KGHSSHV Carbon might be a good idea, but if we look at tubes Blue Hawaii or Grounded Grid?

Thanks all


----------



## oneguy

I wouldn’t pair a 007 with a BH or GG. It needs the solid state to brighten it up.


----------



## Kiats (Nov 5, 2022)

ruhian said:


> @mulveling got it, it seems that mkI is simply higher risk higher reward...and I'm close to making the jump.
> 
> anyone with any bad experiences with the mk1s? or prefer the mk2 sound?
> 
> ...


I do enjoy the Mk1. So much that I actually have 2 pairs (as insurance). What I will say is that the Mk1 needs more power. If not, it will sound dark. I have not heard the KGGG but it sounds great off the Carbon and the KGST.

I might be wrong but I recall the BHSE was designed to better drive the 007 Mk1.


----------



## zolkis

ruhian said:


> anyone with any bad experiences with the mk1s? or prefer the mk2 sound?
> lastly on amp pairing - think my srm1 mk1's wont bring out their full potential - heard KGHSSHV Carbon might be a good idea, but if we look at tubes Blue Hawaii or Grounded Grid?



I had a 70xxx Mk1 and also a Mk2. I published their measurements earlier in this thread.
The Mk1 had smoother sound, better bass extension. The Mk2 had better bass kick and somewhat more rough treble, but it was very well suited to jazz for instance.
My choice would be the Mk1. I did make mods (used modded 009 pads instead of the 007 pads + spring).
The BHSE plays wonderfully with the 007 Mk1. The SRM-1 Mk2 with some PSU upgrades could drive it, but wasn't the best still.
The Carbon and GG should be even better, and they can stay over headphone upgrades.


----------



## number1sixerfan

ruhian said:


> @mulveling got it, it seems that mkI is simply higher risk higher reward...and I'm close to making the jump.
> 
> anyone with any bad experiences with the mk1s? or prefer the mk2 sound?
> 
> ...



I would echo everyone else and go for the MK1, as long as it's in good shape and it's from a reputable seller. 

I would just mention that the 007 needs a lot of power and although it can sound decent without it, you leave a lot of performance on the table if not. The SRM-1 MK2 isn't going to cut it, and I have one as an emergency back up amp and it's pretty much a non-starter with the 007. But that part you know. 

I would also say that the BHSE does not cut it either. I only have this perspective after pairing it with a DIY T2, in which I saw a HUGE performance jump. Much better resolution, far more lively and energetic (I have a SZ1-xx model), with better bass performance and just really well balanced overall. Similar improvements were seen in the also very hard to drive SGL Sr. and to a much lesser degree the CRBN (which isn't nearly as hard to drive as these two). I'm not saying you need to spend T2 money however, just that the BHSE leaves some performance on the table with really hard to drive stats. I would probably go Carbon route.


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## mulveling (Nov 5, 2022)

oneguy said:


> I wouldn’t pair a 007 with a BH or GG. It needs the solid state to brighten it up.


Agree, I liked it better with KGSShv Carbon than BHSE. And yes it's also great with T2, if a bit of a budget strain 
The best price-to-performance amp I've heard with 007 MK I is my old IXYS 500V (onboard heat sinks) KGSShv from circa 2010. It's the most neutral sounding KGSShv I've heard. The Mjolnir mini KGSShv's were a bit bright to me (like the KGSShv Carbon), but this also paired well with 007 Mk I (I still liked my full size amp better). But if you can afford it (and not a T2), then a Carbon is the best bet.

On KGSShv's, there are a LOT of versions over the years, and I'd explicitly avoid the Sanyo 450V versions, which are too warm and dulled sounding. Also had a Mjolnir prototype-mini I wasn't particularly impressed with - sounded dry and sterile compared to a good full-size build.


----------



## ruhian (Nov 6, 2022)

So I took the plunge, thanks all for your advice....tried it out on BHSE at the previous owners house, was blown away, cant believe they are still lacking / not at their full potential...
Edit: after plugging in to Srm1s I'm slightly disappointed hahaha it's not the same - was previously doubtful that it would makes such a difference hahaha


----------



## Kiats

ruhian said:


> So I took the plunge, thanks all for your advice....tried it out on BHSE at the previous owners house, was blown away, cant believe they are still lacking / not at their full potential...
> Edit: after plugging in to Srm1s I'm slightly disappointed hahaha it's not the same - was previously doubtful that it would makes such a difference hahaha


Congrats! Yes… nothing like hearing it yourself.


----------



## mulveling (Nov 6, 2022)

ruhian said:


> So I took the plunge, thanks all for your advice....tried it out on BHSE at the previous owners house, was blown away, cant believe they are still lacking / not at their full potential...
> Edit: after plugging in to Srm1s I'm slightly disappointed hahaha it's not the same - was previously doubtful that it would makes such a difference hahaha


Well quite honestly the 007 Mk 1 still sounds beautiful out of "just" a BHSE. The BHSE was in fact designed with the 007 in mind, because the 009 hadn't been released yet. We're just saying that the best solid-state amps in this price range are a little bit more optimal because they tend to be a bit brighter and have tighter bass, which complements the 007 Mk I's character quite well. But for sure, they sound great out of a BHSE! Wonderful headphones.  Congrats!!


----------



## SludgeSwan

With all this discussion around the differences between the SR-007 MkI and MkII, I was wondering about the potential of parametric EQ in reducing or even eliminating the differences... so might it be possible to make a MkII sound like an early MkI by using EQ? Any experiences with this?


----------



## KDS315 (Nov 7, 2022)

Yes, I have. I use ROON and its built in Convolver and have EQed both my 007 Mk1 + Mk2 using the ORATORY1990 convolver files for this. Both sound quite better, but still the Mk1 beats the Mk2 IMHO not just in the bass region (Mk1 is sealed, Mk2 is not).


----------



## ruhian (Nov 7, 2022)

@mulveling


mulveling said:


> Well quite honestly the 007 Mk 1 still sounds beautiful out of "just" a BHSE. The BHSE was in fact designed with the 007 in mind, because the 009 hadn't been released yet. We're just saying that the best solid-state amps in this price range are a little bit more optimal because they tend to be a bit brighter and have tighter bass, which complements the 007 Mk I's character quite well. But for sure, they sound great out of a BHSE! Wonderful headphones.  Congrats!!



Thank you, makes sense. Ironically (and I know this is a bad comparison) vs SRM1, the BHSE gave not only tighter bass, but an overall tighter and more controlled presentation. Also highs and upper mids were clearer, and the background was blacker. Can only imagine how it'd be like on an appropriate solid state.

On SRM1, 007 seems like an upgrade vs L700, but not such a significant one. On BHSE it was amazing, higher resolution even though presentation is more laid back, deeper and more visceral bass + overall dynamics, and a more natural presentation as I feel L700 can be too in your face at times...

Would y'all agree? Understand this is subjective, but would be great to uderstand what y'all have experienced!


----------



## number1sixerfan

ruhian said:


> @mulveling
> 
> 
> Thank you, makes sense. Ironically (and I know this is a bad comparison) vs SRM1, the BHSE gave not only tighter base, but an overall tighter and more controlled presentation. Also highs and upper mids were clearer, and the background was blacker. Can only imagine how it'd be like on an appropriate solid state.
> ...



Yup, this is all to be expected. Again the SRM just doesn't power the 007 well at all. It's definitely much better on the BHSE, in all of the ways you stated.. especially with the bass. And you'll see similar improvements in those same categories when powered through something even better than the BHSE.


----------



## dleblanc343

ruhian said:


> So I took the plunge, thanks all for your advice....tried it out on BHSE at the previous owners house, was blown away, cant believe they are still lacking / not at their full potential...
> Edit: after plugging in to Srm1s I'm slightly disappointed hahaha it's not the same - was previously doubtful that it would makes such a difference hahaha


Lucky!!!

I've had a WTB post for a 007MK1 for months now and only a scammer reached out so far 


Enjoy


----------



## talan7

Anyone knows what a 8/10 Stax 353X would go for? Mine has been sitting around and has barely been used in years, so I guess it’s time to let her go


----------



## hifixman




----------



## footsurg

Hello.  I have an SRM-T1 that I would like to apply the CCS mod.  I purchased the Audioxpress July 2017 issue that details the mod.  I can follow it mostly, but some of the points are vague.  Ideally, I would like to purchase the mod already assembled with heatsink, and install it myself.  There is a nice guy in Germany named Dominik @Firschi who at one time was doing this.  I contacted him and he stated that he can no longer do it because of the scarcity of certain parts.  Does anyone know is there is anyone else who is selling a fully assembled mod for end user installation?  If I can source the parts, I would graciously accept assistance from anyone who has done one of these mods as an alternative, if buying an assembled mod is not possible.  Lastly I would buy a modded unit in 117V if there was one for sale.  Thanks in advance!


----------



## Firschi

To be precise, I paused selling CCS modules for now.

Keep in mind, this is not a beginner's mod.


----------



## footsurg

Firschi said:


> To be precise, I paused selling CCS modules for now.
> 
> Keep in mind, this is not a beginner's mod.


 Dominik,

Thanks for the clarification.  I am in no hurry to do it.  If you begin making them again in the near future I can wait.  I realize this is an advanced mod that requires drilling, soldering, de-soldering at the component level with re-alignment.  I am not a beginner as I have built a few DIY amps.  I am well known on the Audio Note forum (Hoffman) for having performed various DAC, amp and pre-amp mods.  I am interested in your module mainly because all the parts can be had in one place, and your price is very reasonable.  Please let me know when you resume production.


----------



## timb5881

talan7 said:


> Anyone knows what a 8/10 Stax 353X would go for? Mine has been sitting around and has barely been used in years, so I guess it’s time to let her go


Spritzer sells refurbished ones for about $600.  I have seen them as low as $300 as well.


----------



## talan7

timb5881 said:


> Spritzer sells refurbished ones for about $600.  I have seen them as low as $300 as well.


Thanks, I guess $400-$500 would be about right


----------



## lsantista

I've a good friend coming from Japan in a few weeks.  What are the reliable online audio shops in Japan? not necessarally stax dealer (apologies for the thread borrowing) as Im more inclined on getting cables and other small items, but surely will look into the prices of Staxes as well


----------



## themad

lsantista said:


> I've a good friend coming from Japan in a few weeks.  What are the reliable online audio shops in Japan? not necessarally stax dealer (apologies for the thread borrowing) as Im more inclined on getting cables and other small items, but surely will look into the prices of Staxes as well


Not sure what kind of cables and stuff you are looking for, but the biggest ones are Yodobashi and Bic Camera. Apparently you can even contact them in English now (which is a big suprise for Japanese sites).
If your friend is Japanese or local resident and can buy in person, it is usually cheaper than when they sell to foreigners.
I have also used Buyee.jp and Yahoo Auctions successfully.

Smaller and better (more variety, better prices) hi-fi shops are usually not easy to reach by email.


----------



## Kiats

Took a punt on Yahoo JP auctions for a pair of SR-3. I always enjoy exploring the evolution of the Stax sound over the years. I recall that SR-3 was either first released in 1968 or 1971. It still works well and it is a lovely sounding pair of Stax.


----------



## hifixman

Just found a video I made many years ago driving my loudspeaker and Stax at the same time with Audiovalve Solaris to get better bass and slams:


----------



## Kiats

I have read through some of the initial views/references to the SR-003 Mk2 when it was first released. But no views since then. Is anyone still using it today? I saw that the SR-003 M2 is meant to be used with desktop amps. Hence, I am curious.


----------



## catscratch

The original 003 was a favorite back in the day, it sounded great but the comfort was absolutely wretched. I could maybe use it for 15 minutes at a time, but those were fun 15 minutes. It kinda sounded like a mini 007, a bit soft up top but with surprising bass and great mids. However fit was crucial and if the fit was bad the sound could be off in all sorts of ways. 

I haven't heard the new one, but it seems like it sounds a bit different. Its measurements don't look encouraging, but fit on the measurement rig might be to blame.


----------



## KDS315

Kiats said:


> I have read through some of the initial views/references to the SR-003 Mk2 when it was first released. But no views since then. Is anyone still using it today? I saw that the SR-003 M2 is meant to be used with desktop amps. Hence, I am curious.


I use it with the Stax SRM-D10 mobile amp and it sounds pretty good to my ears. I do use it when I travel at times.


----------



## Kiats

KDS315 said:


> I use it with the Stax SRM-D10 mobile amp and it sounds pretty good to my ears. I do use it when I travel at times.


Thanks! This is the mobile amp that will fit the earlier iterations of the Stax IEMs? As a matter of curiosity, how do you input the music source from, eg., your DAP for these portable amps? I recall reading that it is battery driven?


----------



## KDS315

Yep, it is "battery" driven (a rechargeable accumulator to be more precise). Yep, it fits all headphoned that have the standard STAX 5-pin plug. I use either my iphone as a source or a DAP with USB output plugged into the D10.


----------



## Kiats

KDS315 said:


> Yep, it is "battery" driven (a rechargeable accumulator to be more precise). Yep, it fits all headphoned that have the standard STAX 5-pin plug. I use either my iphone as a source or a DAP with USB output plugged into the D10.


Much appreciated! Let me hunt down information on the D10.


----------



## KDS315 (Nov 20, 2022)

I use the close rear caps (contained in the additional CES-A1 set) for the SR-003 MK2 when travelling; less annoying to seat neighbors 
This is my SURFACE PRO as a music source then shown in that picture.

Btw. there is also the STAX SR-002 which comes as a SET consisting of the Inears + amp! That uses a propriatary connection, not the standard 
STAX-PRO plug, but is otherwise identical regarding the headset.
.


----------



## KDS315 (Nov 20, 2022)

Here is a recent review btw. : https://theaudiophilecafe.com/2022/04/25/stax-sr-003-mkii-in-ear-electrostatic-ear-speakers/
But I disagree about the too high clamping force of the headband, not for me and I have a rather big head (hat size 58-60).

This is the CES-A1 set...


----------



## Kiats

KDS315 said:


> I use the close rear caps (contained in the additional CES-A1 set) for the SR-003 MK2 when travelling; less annoying to seat neighbors
> This is my SURFACE PRO as a music source then shown in that picture.
> 
> Btw. there is also the STAX SR-002 which comes as a SET consisting of the Inears + amp! That uses a propriatary connection, not the standard
> ...


Ah! That’s a nice touch, the CES A-1 set. Not sure if I can unearth it but I will certainly make enquiries. Thanks for sharing.  Do the rear caps impact the sound signature? 

Yes, I did read about the SRS-002. Would be great if I could get my hands on that. Will keep my eyes peeled for it. 

Thanks for sharing. 🙏


----------



## Kiats

KDS315 said:


> Here is a recent review btw. : https://theaudiophilecafe.com/2022/04/25/stax-sr-003-mkii-in-ear-electrostatic-ear-speakers/
> But I disagree about the too high clamping force of the headband, not for me and I have a rather big head (hat size 58-60).
> 
> This is the CES-A1 set...


Thanks! I did see that when I googled on the subject.  That‘s what piqued my interest. I think I may have won the auction for a near mint set of the SR-003 Mk2. I will show it once I receive it, if I did indeed win. 🙈

If I did, will ask my Stax dealer to check on the CES-A1.


----------



## KDS315

Happy to hear! I paid 275 for all, for never used set

PS: closed they have less peaks in highs…


----------



## Kiats

KDS315 said:


> Happy to hear! I paid 275 for all, for never used set
> 
> PS: closed they have less peaks in highs…


I never quite understand these auction rules. We will see. If not, I will simply just get a new pair from my local Stax dealers.  

Ah… OK. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## Litlgi74

If anyone has an ifi iESL they'd like to sell... Please let me know.

Thanks so much.


----------



## Kiats

KDS315 said:


> Happy to hear! I paid 275 for all, for never used set
> 
> PS: closed they have less peaks in highs…


Thanks for all your tips and advice @KDS315 ! 🙏 I managed to clinch the SR-003 Mk2 at the auction. And the Stax distributor in Singapore has stock of the CES-A1.


----------



## KDS315

Happy to hear! Enjoy!!


----------



## Dinan (Nov 23, 2022)

I've been away from the Stax world for over a decade and just rejoined with an X9000 running on an LTA Z10e and a D10/003 combo for travel. I love both setups and the X9000s are simply phenomenal but VERY critical of amps. I have a Mjolnir KGSSHV that is pretty unlistenable on them as it is just too forward for my tastes. I have an SRM-727 that while not nearly as resolving is more enjoyable overall so that should be a good backup amp.

The KGSSHV did a good job with my Audeze CRBN but after receiving the X9000, the CRBN are a bit pointless as they are completely outclassed and will be sold.

So I'm at a loss with what to do with the KGSSHV. Sell it or maybe pair with an SR-007 variant? Thoughts on which 007 or maybe a different idea (Lambda maybe but they are pretty forward) but I do like a more liquid presentation without sacrificing resolution. I really liked my 007MK2 paired with a modified SRM-717 back in the day but we are talking 12 years ago so I have no idea what I would think now that the bar has been raised so much higher.


----------



## padam

I really like the Lambda Nova Signature with the KGSSHV, plays in a more mellow style than other Lambdas (some say still a little shouty in the upper mids, I don't hear it with aftermarket amps), and I would use a Lambda as a complimentary headphone, some recordings are more palpable and enjoyable when brought closer to the listener, I find that these big Staxes tend to add a bit of diffusion to the music that's not necessarily there in the first place.
The SR-007 variants have a very specific, 'creamy' presentation that people tend or like or dislike. In some ways I prefer the presentation of SRM-727 over the KGSSHV or Carbon which add more bass, treble and staging (in case of the Carbon) but makes the midrange feel a bit recessed, so I would probably try to find a different amp if it was my main headphone or change the source, which also plays a significant part in the equation. The Nova Signature is a more consistent performer when varying systems compared to the SR-007, which can sound quite different but always has a strong footprint of its own.


----------



## Kiats

Dinan said:


> I've been away from the Stax world for over a decade and just rejoined with an X9000 running on an LTA Z10e and a D10/003 combo for travel. I love both setups and the X9000s are simply phenomenal but VERY critical of amps. I have a Mjolnir KGSSHV that is pretty unlistenable on them as it is just too forward for my tastes. I have an SRM-727 that while not nearly as resolving is more enjoyable overall so that should be a good backup amp.
> 
> The KGSSHV did a good job with my Audeze CRBN but after receiving the X9000, the CRBN are a bit pointless as they are completely outclassed and will be sold.
> 
> So I'm at a loss with what to do with the KGSSHV. Sell it or maybe pair with an SR-007 variant? Thoughts on which 007 or maybe a different idea (Lambda maybe but they are pretty forward) but I do like a more liquid presentation without sacrificing resolution. I really liked my 007MK2 paired with a modified SRM-717 back in the day but we are talking 12 years ago so I have no idea what I would think now that the bar has been raised so much higher.


I think the CRBN has a distinctive and different sound signature from the X9000. But it is pretty classic Audeze house sound. So, it depends on what you feel like at any given point in time.


----------



## Kiats (Nov 25, 2022)

KDS315 said:


> Happy to hear! Enjoy!!



@KDS315 : thought I’d share the photos. It has arrived safely. All the original ear tips are intact. Just one question, is there any particular trick to removing the IEM from the headband? Thanks!

Listening to it off the Mjolnir Carbon right now. 

I am suitably impressed! 🤗


----------



## bearFNF (Nov 25, 2022)

Kiats said:


> @KDS315 : thought I’d share the photos. It has arrived safely. All the original ear tips are intact. Just one question, is there any particular trick to removing the IEM from the headband? Thanks!
> 
> Listening to it off the Mjolnir Carbon right now.
> 
> I am suitably impressed! 🤗


Not sure if it is exactly the same but take a look at this video (at about 3:50 minutes in)  for the SR-002 MK2, I think they are at least similar??

If the link doesn't work this is the title of the video: "STAX-SR002 Mk.2 In-Ear Earspeakers Review: An Awkward Pleasure"


----------



## Kiats

bearFNF said:


> Not sure if it is exactly the same but take a look at this video (at about 3:50 minutes in)  for the SR-002 MK2, I think they are at least similar??
> 
> If the link doesn't work this is the title of the video: "STAX-SR002 Mk.2 In-Ear Earspeakers Review: An Awkward Pleasure"



Thank you @bearFNF ! It's exactly the same. only difference is the cable.


----------



## Dinan

Kiats said:


> I think the CRBN has a distinctive and different sound signature from the X9000. But it is pretty classic Audeze house sound. So, it depends on what you feel like at any given point in time.



Agreed, I would characterize the sound of the CRBN as very planner like which is an area that Audeze dominates with a healthy dose of the better qualities of a great electrostat.


----------



## mulveling (Nov 25, 2022)

Dinan said:


> I've been away from the Stax world for over a decade and just rejoined with an X9000 running on an LTA Z10e and a D10/003 combo for travel. I love both setups and the X9000s are simply phenomenal but VERY critical of amps. I have a Mjolnir KGSSHV that is pretty unlistenable on them as it is just too forward for my tastes. I have an SRM-727 that while not nearly as resolving is more enjoyable overall so that should be a good backup amp.
> 
> The KGSSHV did a good job with my Audeze CRBN but after receiving the X9000, the CRBN are a bit pointless as they are completely outclassed and will be sold.
> 
> So I'm at a loss with what to do with the KGSSHV. Sell it or maybe pair with an SR-007 variant? Thoughts on which 007 or maybe a different idea (Lambda maybe but they are pretty forward) but I do like a more liquid presentation without sacrificing resolution. I really liked my 007MK2 paired with a modified SRM-717 back in the day but we are talking 12 years ago so I have no idea what I would think now that the bar has been raised so much higher.


The Mjolnir KGSShv (mini) I've heard were both quite bright. They matched best with the warm 007 - and probably would also do quite well with ES Lab ES1a. They were absolutely a NO GO with 009 unless you have iron-clad ears. Other KGSShv variants are different. There are at least a few other variants, each with a different sonic signature. I like the old 500V IXYS (onboard heatsinks) the best - close to neutral. The 450V Sanyo (offboard) is warmest by far, and thus became a popular pairing with 009. The amp you have is simply not a good match for your new headphones.


----------



## HeadAmpTeam (Nov 25, 2022)

We’re happy to announce that from now until December 3’rd HeadAmp is proud to offer an additional 2-years free servicing for any new STAX SR-X9000 purchase made through our website. This is in addition to the one-year manufacturer warranty, giving you a total of 3-years of service!​


----------



## Dinan

mulveling said:


> The Mjolnir KGSShv (mini) I've heard were both quite bright. They matched best with the warm 007





mulveling said:


> The amp you have is simply not a good match for your new headphones.



That’s painfully obvious but doesn’t really matter as I never intended to use them together.

Thoughts on which 007 to pair with the KGSS and if it is a special enough combo to be worth the additional investment or call it a day and sell the KGSS which is also fine with me?


----------



## hifixman

HeadAmpTeam said:


> We’re happy to announce that from now until December 3’rd HeadAmp is proud to offer an additional 2-years free servicing for any new STAX SR-X9000 purchase made through our website. This is in addition to the one-year manufacturer warranty, giving you a total of 3-years of service!​
Hell Yaaaaaaassssss

Muuuua!


----------



## Kiats

bearFNF said:


> Not sure if it is exactly the same but take a look at this video (at about 3:50 minutes in)  for the SR-002 MK2, I think they are at least similar??
> 
> If the link doesn't work this is the title of the video: "STAX-SR002 Mk.2 In-Ear Earspeakers Review: An Awkward Pleasure"



Thanks for the tip. It was easy.


----------



## arjuna93

BenF said:


> T2, T8000...
> Here is my Stax stack:



Airbow, awesome! Also using it.


----------



## KDS315

Try the closed back covers (simply press on) and see howc you like their sound then!!


----------



## Kiats

KDS315 said:


> Try the closed back covers (simply press on) and see howc you like their sound then!!


Thanks! Will do once Jeremy from AV One in Singapore takes delivery of the CES-A1! Great team they have at AV One, especially Jeremy. He helped me procure the X9000 and is now ensuring that I am properly provisioned for the Stax IEM journey.


----------



## mulveling

Dinan said:


> That’s painfully obvious but doesn’t really matter as I never intended to use them together.
> 
> Thoughts on which 007 to pair with the KGSS and if it is a special enough combo to be worth the additional investment or call it a day and sell the KGSS which is also fine with me?


I'd tried the 007 Mk 1 with the mini (Purk's gear). This was several years ago now - it was very good but definitely not special enough for me start preferring it over 009 on a better match. Since you have the X9000 - I'd absolutely move on, and look for either tubes or a sweeter SS amp.


----------



## ruhian

I was searching for info on KGBH as I'm thinking of purchasing one...given theres not much info online, wondering if anyone has run into any issues as they are an old unit? also any impressions vs BHSE?

Your advice and impressions are much appreciated!


----------



## Kiats

Decided that the Sigma has been neglected of late. So, took it out for a spin. Spent a lazy Sunday with it off the KGST. Such a gorgeous sound signature!


----------



## KDS315

ehemm, had the original SIGMA PRO and sold it, was too disappointing for me, sounded like listening through a long pipe


----------



## Kiats

KDS315 said:


> ehemm, had the original SIGMA PRO and sold it, was too disappointing for me, sounded like listening through a long pipe



Heheh! It is quite different from what we expect from Stax.  I listen to mostly vocals and acoustics. 

I am embarking on my own journey through the various sound signatures that Stax had over the years.


----------



## padam

KDS315 said:


> ehemm, had the original SIGMA PRO and sold it, was too disappointing for me, sounded like listening through a long pipe


Few factors to consider:
- Two different versions
- Difficult to power (KGSSHV minimum)
- Needs a push above what you think is the right volume


----------



## hifixman (Nov 28, 2022)

Nice


----------



## mulveling (Nov 28, 2022)

ruhian said:


> I was searching for info on KGBH as I'm thinking of purchasing one...given theres not much info online, wondering if anyone has run into any issues as they are an old unit? also any impressions vs BHSE?
> 
> Your advice and impressions are much appreciated!


No idea how it compares to a modern BHSE, but pic is of a unit made by same builder (Justin Wilson of Head-Amp). Main audio circuit should be largely similar. Those silver chassis were from his top/Reference line circa early 2000s - also used in a 2-chassis Balanced Reference (Dynalo). Probably chok-full of Black Gates caps. I definitely wanted those amps, but they were beyond my reach then. Every time I see a silver Head-Amp my heart flutters lol. FWIW I have a black chassis Gilmore Balanced Reference from that era, and it holds up very well against GS-X Mk 2. As the products evolved, some parts were downscaled over time (Black Gates) to go along with the circuit improvements Justin made. Look at those tall caps in the old BH - that's a no-compromise (for sound) choice if ever there was one!

Also note the dual volume attenuators. I wouldn't mind them, but some might. I'd hate to think of packing that amp with those tall caps!


----------



## Kiats

Giving the Stax Lambda Pro a run out today with the KGST. Always boggles the mind that it was first released in 1982.


----------



## KDS315

Yep, still excellent with the right amp!!


----------



## ruhian

mulveling said:


> No idea how it compares to a modern BHSE, but pic is of a unit made by same builder (Justin Wilson of Head-Amp). Main audio circuit should be largely similar. Those silver chassis were from his top/Reference line circa early 2000s - also used in a 2-chassis Balanced Reference (Dynalo). Probably chok-full of Black Gates caps. I definitely wanted those amps, but they were beyond my reach then. Every time I see a silver Head-Amp my heart flutters lol. FWIW I have a black chassis Gilmore Balanced Reference from that era, and it holds up very well against GS-X Mk 2. As the products evolved, some parts were downscaled over time (Black Gates) to go along with the circuit improvements Justin made. Look at those tall caps in the old BH - that's a no-compromise (for sound) choice if ever there was one!
> 
> Also note the dual volume attenuators. I wouldn't mind them, but some might. I'd hate to think of packing that amp with those tall caps!


Thanks for sharing - I am testing the unit on Thursday…so far the owner reported no defects other than the right volume pot generating some static noise when turned while music is playing…assume this is an issue with dirty / dusty contacts?

Think I’m going to go for it if the audition goes smoothly!

(And yes the black gates are kind of funky haha)


----------



## hifixman

Anyone know if there is any after market cable available for X9000 in that personally speaking I dislike that cable.


----------



## Ciggavelli

hifixman said:


> Anyone know if there is any after market cable available for X9000 in that personally speaking I dislike that cable.


I actually like it a lot.  Though it is weighty. I’m interested in an aftermarket one though too, if there are sound quality improvements


----------



## hifixman (Nov 29, 2022)

Ciggavelli said:


> I actually like it a lot.  Though it is weighty. I’m interested in an aftermarket one though too, if there are sound quality improvements


Cables are all about personal taste. I found the stock cable largely accounts for the tuning that I dislike about X9000. Many Japanese HiFi product has embodied their sonic preference which is mid centric, which to the old me will be a bliss, but not for my current sonic preference.


----------



## number1sixerfan

hifixman said:


> Anyone know if there is any after market cable available for X9000 in that personally speaking I dislike that cable.



I think the cable was finally made detachable for ease of maintenance in the event that you have issues with it and to offer different cable lengths. I don't think we'll see many aftermarket cables soon, but would love to--as well as for any future stax product. 



hifixman said:


> Cables are all about personal taste. I found the stock cable largely accounts for the tuning that I dislike about X9000. Many Japanese HiFi product has embodied their sonic preference which is mid centric, which to the old me will be a bliss, but not for my current sonic preference.



Did you happen to come across a specialty cable already?


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## hifixman (Nov 29, 2022)

number1sixerfan said:


> I think the cable was finally made detachable for ease of maintenance in the event that you have issues with it and to offer different cable lengths. I don't think we'll see many aftermarket cables soon, but would love to--as well as for any future stax product.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you happen to come across a specialty cable already?


Nope. This is too difficult for custom built in that it is more than change of connectors. Maybe I could get some luck from diy people in Asia.

One way to tell how does the cable sound is through comparing with longer length. I heard everything I dislike even more with the longer stock cable, that is how I know the cable is part of the problem to my personal preference.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Nov 29, 2022)

hifixman said:


> Nope. This is too difficult for custom built in that it is more than change of connectors. Maybe I could get some luck from diy people in Asia.
> 
> One way to tell how does the cable sound is through comparing with longer length. I heard everything I dislike even more with the longer stock cable, that is how I know the cable is part of the problem to my personal preference.



Gotcha. Was going to ask that. I've only ever used the shorter cable, as the very long stax cables have always been an issue for me (functionally).


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## hifixman (Nov 30, 2022)

number1sixerfan said:


> Gotcha. Was going to ask that. I've only ever used the shorter cable, as the very long stax cables have always been an issue for me.


I have tried sooooo many methods to fix the part I personally dislike and I feel like finally resolving that aspect with Adona Reference Rack with their superb Marble isolation base but then after switching to the longer cable I feel like all my experiments are half in vain lol. Other than the convenience of different lengths, I think there are definitely needs and potentials for cable swaps with the detachable design!

Call for all cable makers! The problem could be technical as well as the small market as this aftermarket cable will only suit for X9000 owners, not to mention not every X9000 owners want to change the stock cable.


----------



## Kiats

ruhian said:


> Thanks for sharing - I am testing the unit on Thursday…so far the owner reported no defects other than the right volume pot generating some static noise when turned while music is playing…assume this is an issue with dirty / dusty contacts?
> 
> Think I’m going to go for it if the audition goes smoothly!
> 
> (And yes the black gates are kind of funky haha)


Good luck with the demon session!


----------



## dynavit

I think the problem is, that there are no aftermarket plugs for Stax. You can get different sockets. 
I once bought a plug for my HE 60 from a German guy. They look and work fine, but I dont know, if they are still available on eBay.


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## mulveling (Nov 30, 2022)

I hope this is incredibly obvious and therefore superfluous, but any aftermarket Stax cables will need to be carefully constructed for safely carrying high voltages (no floofy "audiophile" dielectrics) with a very low-capacitance design. The stock cables are ribbons not to be cute, but because it increases spacing between + and - conductors and therefore keeps capacitance very low per foot. A typical braided headphone cable is a no-go. Any shielding, or use of larger conductors, also adds capacitance. Any increase to capacitance will easily negate any advantages from using more premium conductors. So there's not nearly as much room for "improvement" as with typical stock headphone cables. A carefully shortened stock cable (as short as you're willing) probably performs exceptionally well!

An analogous struggle is observed with cables coming out of a step-up transformer for MC cartridges - there too low capacitance is king, but the signal is of extremely LOW voltages! As an interesting aside, if you feed a low-MC based vinyl source into an electrostatic headphone amp, you're looking at ~120 - 130dB of total gain from cartridge to stator, which is absolutely incredible


----------



## Chefguru

I really like the weight of the CRBN cable - too bad that isn't available for the Stax.


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## gilency (Dec 3, 2022)

There is no scientific proof of improved sonic performance with different cables.
On the other hand if is durable and nicer than a standard cable there may be some benefits for some.
Placebo effect may make it sound better to your ears.
This may get me reprimanded by admin.


----------



## mulveling

gilency said:


> There is no scientific proof of improved sonic performance with different cables.
> On the other hand if is durable and nicer than a standard cable there may be some benefits for some.
> Placebo effect may make it sound better to your ears.
> This may get me reprimanded by admin.


In specific applications, even small amounts of extra capacitance can cause effects that are both significantly measurable and audible. The cable on electrostatic headphone is one such application; the cable out of an MC step-up transformer is another. You get the best "transparency" in these slots by choosing a low capacitance cable design AND keeping the run as short as possible. Any deviation beyond this will absolutely be audible. It's why Sennheiser built the HE-1's final amplification stage right into the earcups.


----------



## number1sixerfan

gilency said:


> There is no scientific proof of improved sonic performance with different cables.
> On the other hand if is durable and nicer than a standard cable there may be some benefits for some.
> Placebo effect may make it sound better to your ears.
> This may get me reprimanded by admin.



I'm not really a fan of spending obscene money on cables. And the differences, when audible, are generally on the smaller side imo. Recently did a comparison of the TC Superconductor cable and its stock cable and I can tell you for a fact that they sound different lol. One of the easiest detected differences between cables I've ever experienced (very quickly audible and very consistent in what the changes were), definitely re-opened my eyes just a bit to the possibilities. Although again, I'm not into spending thousands on cables and that's why I never bought it even though I liked it. Just sharing in case that's helpful to anyone.


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## hifixman (Dec 4, 2022)

number1sixerfan said:


> I'm not really a fan of spending obscene money on cables. And the differences, when audible, are generally on the smaller side imo. Recently did a comparison of the TC Superconductor cable and its stock cable and I can tell you for a fact that they sound different lol. One of the easiest detected differences between cables I've ever experienced (very quickly audible and very consistent in what the changes were), definitely re-opened my eyes just a bit to the possibilities. Although again, I'm not into spending thousands on cables and that's why I never bought it even though I liked it. Just sharing in case that's helpful to anyone.


Hard agree!  There is no such a thing as level matching in the game of cables which is frequent told by dealers of pricey cable brands such as 30% of fund shall be spent on cables. There is only synergy and preference match for Hifi cables in my opinion, as many other forms of sound tweak as well.

Hifi cables will more or less alter the sound which could be hit and miss. I’m a cable slut but it is very very difficult to find the right cables in my opinion and to my standard, especially because I’m significantly turned off by artificial Hifi colorization. If I am going to step into DIY world, I will start with building my own high quality neutral sounding copper cable.

Besides, there are some high end components that sound better with stock cables in my own experience, well I admit it is a risky conclusion as I can’t possibly tried all fancy cables but I did try a lot.


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## gilency

I stand for what I said. Personal anecdotes do not have any meaning. There is no objective data showing they make any audible difference. Show me a DBRT saying otherwise and I may change my mind.


----------



## bearFNF

Move along, Nothing to see here...


----------



## pataburd (Dec 11, 2022)

gilency said:


> I stand for what I said. Personal anecdotes do not have any meaning. There is no objective data showing they make any audible difference. Show me a DBRT saying otherwise and I may change my mind.


. . . I have been anecdotally enjoying the placebo effect of UPOCC solid core cables for many years now!


----------



## zolkis

This is not an audio science forum with peer-reviewed posts.  
This is a forum to share subjective experiences, in addition to scientific, technical, monetary etc. arguments about products.

Cables? A lot of experiences, a lot of science. There is room, context and bounds for both. 
Is it relevant experience (for me), moreover, is it relevant science, covering those experiences, and what's missing, if anything? 
Experience is a strong motivator, but may be misleading indeed, so check twice and check from all angles. 
In turn, dogmatic science (an oxymoron) may be keeping one in a comfortable corner, but away from relevant experiences.
Everyone should make their own decision: do your investigations, make a decision, enjoy and move on.


----------



## dukeskd

Capacitance is the most important factor related to 'stats cables. Anything else is imagined.


----------



## afgani

I own a stax l300 , looking for comparisons with 007 and other omegas
is it worth overpaying and buying them , are they much better than any labda
what's different there besides the round shape
they cost a lot of money, I would like to understand if I need them or if l300 is enough for me
I will try to find more information about 007 especially early mk1, saw opinions that it was in mk1 that sound was


----------



## Thobjo

afgani said:


> I own a stax l300 , looking for comparisons with 007 and other omegas
> is it worth overpaying and buying them , are they much better than any labda
> what's different there besides the round shape
> they cost a lot of money, I would like to understand if I need them or if l300 is enough for me
> I will try to find more information about 007 especially early mk1, saw opinions that it was in mk1 that sound was


L300 is good but stock steep bass rolloff is a large limiting factor. 

After mods such as sealing off the bass port and other pads(GL2000) the L300 is on a competely other level. 

I would rather listen to modded L300 than stock 007.

Modded 007 is truly great, better than Lambda in all aspects, just about what I would ever need, the cups not pivoting is abit weird though, other than that great build quality. 

Then again I like EQ and everything modded and have made my L300 into closedbacks and are selling my perfect modded 007 because I want to do even crasier things so maybe dont listen to me


----------



## mulveling

afgani said:


> I own a stax l300 , looking for comparisons with 007 and other omegas
> is it worth overpaying and buying them , are they much better than any labda
> what's different there besides the round shape
> they cost a lot of money, I would like to understand if I need them or if l300 is enough for me
> I will try to find more information about 007 especially early mk1, saw opinions that it was in mk1 that sound was


Amp plays such a huge role with electrostatic performance that you almost can't decouple a headphone comparison without the amp context. Especially when you're talking about relatively easy to drive lambdas versus the VERY hard to drive 007. If sticking with Stax-brand amps, or amps at that level, I'd probably stick to Lambdas, honestly.


----------



## afgani

mulveling said:


> Amp plays such a huge role with electrostatic performance that you almost can't decouple a headphone comparison without the amp context. Especially when you're talking about relatively easy to drive lambdas versus the VERY hard to drive 007. If sticking with Stax-brand amps, or amps at that level, I'd probably stick to Lambdas, honestly.


I use a very interesting amplifier on apex high voltage operational amplifiers, its power exceeds the capabilities of the l300 and the power is there with a margin

in 007 I am confused by the price and availability, they are difficult to get, they cost more than 5-6 times more than my l300

so I decided to raise this topic, maybe someone will tell me that I don’t need it)


----------



## pataburd

Thobjo said:


> L300 is good but stock steep bass rolloff is a large limiting factor.
> 
> After mods such as sealing off the bass port and other pads(GL2000) the L300 is on a competely other level.
> 
> ...


What amp were/are you using with the 007, with the L300?


----------



## TYATYA

I tweak my 007tA (Japan market) by cover volume controller for anti EMI, attach foQ sheet on some places board and transfomer.
Also change power cord from Furutech 34Ag-II to stock one, no ground poles used.
Also clean some resistor which was with metalic dirt when manufacturing. I did not measure but certainly the dust makes changing of resistor value.

I like the result. Wish I had done it earlier.


----------



## number1sixerfan

afgani said:


> I use a very interesting amplifier on apex high voltage operational amplifiers, its power exceeds the capabilities of the l300 and the power is there with a margin
> 
> in 007 I am confused by the price and availability, they are difficult to get, they cost more than 5-6 times more than my l300
> 
> so I decided to raise this topic, maybe someone will tell me that I don’t need it)



You really just need to try and hear them. I have a L300 that I use as a backup/test pair. Keep in mind my pair is unmodded, but there is a huge leap between it and the 009/007 when powered correctly (more so for the 007 here). That said, the L300 is pretty good for the price. With the 007 specifically, once you include an amp that can drive them properly, the price range difference becomes pretty large. And unfortunately in this hobby price to performance ratios aren't really linear in fashion as you upgrade. 

But I would try to hear them for yourself.


----------



## hifixman (Dec 22, 2022)

**


----------



## Kiats

Guess what Santa dropped off today? The Stax Sigma Normal Bias, circa 1977.


----------



## capetownwatches (Dec 23, 2022)

Kiats said:


> Guess what Santa dropped off today? The Stax Sigma Normal Bias, circa 1977.


Very nice condition too, just please free that poor cable!


----------



## Kiats

capetownwatches said:


> Very nice condition too, just please free that poor cable!


😆 Duly done and plugged into the Mjolnir Octave 4


----------



## Thobjo

pataburd said:


> What amp were/are you using with the 007, with the L300?


High Amp Elektra. 

I dont really agree on the very hard to drive saying about the 007 after mods. 

It benefits from extra power rms/peak and control but after mods it is not very different from Lambda in terms of volume. 

It is very muffled and obstructed with layers of metal, rubber, spring and thick mesh stock.


----------



## KDS315

Thobjo said:


> High Amp Elektra.
> 
> I dont really agree on the very hard to drive saying about the 007 after mods.
> 
> ...


Oh you know/have Andreas’ new ELEKTRA!! I had the prototype to test and was very impressed, would have kept it if I didn’t already have his SIRIUS V9!!


----------



## Thobjo

KDS315 said:


> Oh you know/have Andreas’ new ELEKTRA!! I had the prototype to test and was very impressed, would have kept it if I didn’t already have his SIRIUS V9!!


Yes I read up on it quite alot on the German forums, I am very happy with mine


----------



## KDS315

Thobjo said:


> Yes I read up on it quite alot on the German forums, I am very happy with mine


That would have been my postings then 😉😉😉


----------



## folkguy

I have to ask for anyone here in the know - Any idea what the SRM-Xh is worth? I'm trying to sell it with a Lambda Pro and can't tell if I'm undervaluing the two together at €250 or hell even overvaluing. I just reduced from €300 in the ad. It doesn't come with original 12V plug which I think makes it intermittent to turn on when using it with my 9V, but I need that for something else anyway. Price advice on its own without original plug would be appreciated!


----------



## KDS315

max EUR250-300 I'd say


----------



## folkguy

KDS315 said:


> max EUR250-300 I'd say


For headphone + SRM-Xh right? Or separately. Appreciate the response, trying to be honest and realistic with pricing here so needed a reference from experienced folk.


----------



## KDS315

The set I meant; massively depends on condition especially those LAMBDA PRO hedphones: pads, foam, cable, plugs etc all OK?


----------



## folkguy

Not exactly, condition is fair for the headphone. In fully working condition just a bit worn on the pads, old foam is still there, headband still intact etc. Anyway thanks, I'll adjust from here.


----------



## cplus44

how much of a problem is dust with older stax models? I'm thinking of getting an older stax model just to try them but this whole thing of if you get dust in it it will ruin them kinda puts me off from it especially since i always leave my headphones on the table and i will surely forget to cover them after use a lot, i already forget to turn off my amp constantly.


----------



## bigjako

I have multiple pairs from the 70s without any issue, so they hold up well - but if you don't cover them you're just playing Russian Roulette.


----------



## cplus44

is it easy to get dust out at all if it does happen?


----------



## bearFNF

My 80's Lambda NB are still going strong, were left out for long periods with nothing covering them.
My ex even stomped on them and they still work fine. One gimble is cracked but still functioning.


----------



## bigjako

cplus44 said:


> is it easy to get dust out at all if it does happen?


I would say no, though I have no direct experience.  My understanding is that once a mote of dust gets onto the diaphragm, it's hard to get off without potentially hurting the diaphragm itself.  The dust will cause it to squeal and that will effectively ruin your enjoyment.  Someone with steady hands and knowledge of estats can repair or even replace the diaphragm but that's a whole can of worms.  Far easier to bag it up, imo.

But I'm sure many people here have more hands-on experience with dust issues than I have, so don't take my word. 

And glad to hear your NB survived such trauma, @bearFNF, and glad to hear that Lambda-stomper is an EX!  Those are special gifts that will only further disappear with time.


----------



## mulveling

bearFNF said:


> My 80's Lambda NB are still going strong, were left out for long periods with nothing covering them.
> My ex even stomped on them and they still work fine. One gimble is cracked but still functioning.


I'm lucky things like this haven't happened to me much more often


----------



## ESL-1

bigjako said:


> I have multiple pairs from the 70s without any issue, so they hold up well - but if you don't cover them you're just playing Russian Roulette.


I agree 100% with above.  With over a dozen Stax (vintage & newer) and a few other other brand electrostatics I have had no issues or problems at all. 

Not too many headphone companies can make that rarified statement.

Happy New Year 🎊🎈🎆


----------



## bearFNF (Dec 31, 2022)

cplus44 said:


> is it easy to get dust out at all if it does happen?


The drivers themselves are protected by a membrane to keep the dust off them.  They are delicate and can be damaged easily if you are too aggressive cleaning them.
See here for a start of a discussion on this.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-1467#post-16889060
And here for more about the topic:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-stax-thread-iii.677809/page-723#post-13122759

P.S. Happy New Year to all of you!!!


----------



## thinker (Jan 1, 2023)

-


----------



## ESL-1

pataburd said:


> In memoriam:
> 
> 
> SR-007 Mk.1 with Mjolnir SRD-7 eStat Transformer and bel canto e.One c5i (very good).
> ...


As a sad quiet overwhelmed the room with silence.


----------



## pataburd (Jan 2, 2023)

. . . only a few muted sobs could be heard in the background . . .


----------



## thinker

Always coming back to Novem amp/Mjölnir Audio with NOS Mullard input tubes , sounds really nice with X9K, looks good after i switched a silver colored potentiometer to it. Warm tube sound but still presents all details


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## Chefguru

thinker said:


> Always coming back to Novem amp/Mjölnir Audio with NOS Mullard input tubes , sounds really nice with X9K, looks good after i switched a silver colored potentiometer to it. Warm tube sound but still presents all details


Thinker, I know you’ve share your thoughts before and with me privately - but your analysis is that the Novem sounds better with the x9000 than the Carbon, correct?

I will chime in with notes on the x9000 with the Novem later this week once my amp lands.


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## thinker

Chefguru said:


> Thinker, I know you’ve share your thoughts before and with me privately - but your analysis is that the Novem sounds better with the x9000 than the Carbon, correct?
> 
> I will chime in with notes on the x9000 with the Novem later this week once my amp lands.


I wasn't sure about Novem first but realized later that it needs "burn in " in time at least 2-3 months as many other tube amps do. The tubes are critical, i would avoid the JJ ecc99 gold pin output tube and use the normal silver pin instead. Input tubes are also critical, NOS Mullard has been excellent. New tubes like Gold Lion etc  should be avoided.

The Carbon is brutal with X9K , super controlled amp with controlled detailed headphone , to my ears catastrophic end result, or you should use smooth tube front end to balance it out. The Novem is very musical with right tubes and sounds "clean" with X9K.

If Mjölnir ever build Novem again a hint more output current would not be a bad idea if it's possible to do. I also like the looks of this amp, a champagna colored faceplate would look nice.


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## Chefguru

thinker said:


> I wasn't sure about Novem first but realized later that it needs "burn in " in time at least 2-3 months as many other tube amps do. The tubes are critical, i would avoid the JJ ecc99 gold pin output tube and use the normal silver pin instead. Input tubes are also critical, NOS Mullard has been excellent. New tubes like Gold Lion etc  should be avoided.
> 
> The Carbon is brutal with X9K , super controlled amp with controlled detailed headphone , to my ears catastrophic end result, or you should use smooth tube front end to balance it out. The Novem is very musical with right tubes and sounds "clean" with X9K.
> 
> If Mjölnir ever build Novem again a hint more output current would not be a bad idea if it's possible to do. I also like the looks of this amp, a champagna colored faceplate would look nice.


@spritzer 🙏


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## thinker

....and Novem is a well build and very clean inside


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## Homrsimson

Hi all, I have an l700mk2 and 400s coming today. Quick question, I have a TOTL abyss tc setup and use an upgraded audioquest powe cord (link below). But it’s designed for 15a, I assume it won’t work to use with the stax 400s (which looks like it requires 20a). Not a big deal either way but would like to know, so I don’t risk damaging the stax amp by using this power cord. Thanks for any info, much appreciated 

https://www.hideflifestyle.com/prod...aGBozhuD0kOjZ-lgKlPXKUWVKDlDOjXBoCpD4QAvD_BwE


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## mulveling (Friday at 10:54 AM)

Homrsimson said:


> Hi all, I have an l700mk2 and 400s coming today. Quick question, I have a TOTL abyss tc setup and use an upgraded audioquest powe cord (link below). But it’s designed for 15a, I assume it won’t work to use with the stax 400s (which looks like it requires 20a). Not a big deal either way but would like to know, so I don’t risk damaging the stax amp by using this power cord. Thanks for any info, much appreciated
> 
> https://www.hideflifestyle.com/prod...aGBozhuD0kOjZ-lgKlPXKUWVKDlDOjXBoCpD4QAvD_BwE


Why would you think the 400S is 20A? Product pics show a normal C15 IEC. Anyways, at 30 Watts consumption, it's way way below any PC's limits. Your PC will work fine, though that 10 AWG "high current" model (all that AQ's "Zero" tech means is the 3 legs are individually shielded for low inductance) was optimized for Class AB power amplifiers and power conditioners - it'll work fine here, but it's way overkill for what is probably a near constant-draw of 30 Watts. Also its weight + stiffness might cause the amp to tilt. These cords are very annoying to work with. However, I do like them on very expensive power amps.


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## Homrsimson

mulveling said:


> Why would you think the 400S is 20A? Product pics show a normal C15 IEC. Anyways, at 30 Watts consumption, it's way way below any PC's limits. Your PC will work fine, though that 10 AWG "high current" model (all that AQ's "Zero" tech means is the 3 legs are individually shielded for low inductance) was designed for Class AB power amplifiers and power conditioners - it'll work fine here, but it's way overkill for what is probably a near constant-draw of 30 Watts. Also its weight + stiffness might cause the amp to tilt. However, I do like those cords on very expensive power amps.


Thanks! Very helpful. Yeah it’s probably overkill, I bought it to use with a much more expensive Gilmore cfa3 amp


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## Tarkus1984

I've had my L300 for close to a week now and only today I noticed a little popping sound on both sides when turning the SRM-252S energizer off. Is this to be expected? For context, I'm using a Jameco 12v power adapter with a reverse polarity plug, if it helps. 

Thanks!


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## DuncanDirkDick

Tarkus1984 said:


> I've had my L300 for close to a week now and only today I noticed a little popping sound on both sides when turning the SRM-252S energizer off. Is this to be expected? For context, I'm using a Jameco 12v power adapter with a reverse polarity plug, if it helps.
> 
> Thanks!


Yes, it's normal


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## bearFNF

Tarkus1984 said:


> I've had my L300 for close to a week now and only today I noticed a little popping sound on both sides when turning the SRM-252S energizer off. Is this to be expected? For context, I'm using a Jameco 12v power adapter with a reverse polarity plug, if it helps.
> 
> Thanks!


Do you turn the volume down all the way when you turn the amp on or off? Might help reduce the pop??


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## Tarkus1984

bearFNF said:


> Do you turn the volume down all the way when you turn the amp on or off? Might help reduce the pop??


For the 252S, the only way to turn the device off is to turn the volume all the way down. Likewise, turning it on requires to turn the volume knob up. It doesn't have a separate on/off switch. Thanks for the suggestion!


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## penartur

I have a weird problem with imbalance, seems to be a bit different from what other people experience.

So I've purchased used Stax SR-5 with SRD-6/SB adaptor, and when I first plugged everything in, the left speaker was like 10x quieter than the right one. By that time, both headphones and adaptor spent around a month or two in the box, disconnected from everything. Seller claims that they are unaware of previous user having any problems.
The problem is definitely not in the source; I tried connecting both channels of SRD-6/SB to the same channel on the amp (for the mono sound), and the problem persisted.
I've tried non-invasive methods that I've found in this (and previous) threads: to unplug headphones and touch all six pins with the finger at the same time, to slap the quieter speaker with a hand to help membrane to unstuck. Tried this multiple times, to no effect. Letting headphones play music for two weeks helped somewhat: the left speaker became only 1.5x quieter than the right one.
And then the weirdest thing happened, after I left them for two days connected but not playing anything, I found them with no noticeable imbalance at all. However, after an hour of usage, the imbalance returned: the left speaker again became 1.5x quieter than the right one, and persisted for the rest of the day.
After another two-day break, I again found them balanced, and the imbalance again returned after an hour of usage.
Does anybody here have any idea what could be the problem, and whether there are any non-invasive ways to try to solve it?


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## timb5881

penartur said:


> I have a weird problem with imbalance, seems to be a bit different from what other people experience.
> 
> So I've purchased used Stax SR-5 with SRD-6/SB adaptor, and when I first plugged everything in, the left speaker was like 10x quieter than the right one. By that time, both headphones and adaptor spent around a month or two in the box, disconnected from everything. Seller claims that they are unaware of previous user having any problems.
> The problem is definitely not in the source; I tried connecting both channels of SRD-6/SB to the same channel on the amp (for the mono sound), and the problem persisted.
> ...


It may be the self bias on SRD-6,   Try running them continuously with music playing to see if they hold balance after 24-48 hours.  You could have a cold solder joint in the cables or adapter.


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## penartur

timb5881 said:


> It may be the self bias on SRD-6,   Try running them continuously with music playing to see if they hold balance after 24-48 hours.  You could have a cold solder joint in the cables or adapter.


Left them playing music for 18 hours, the imbalance is still around 1.5x.


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## SHAMuuu

As a fan of the vintage estas I've also encountered the quirks of balance issues. Sr5/sigma nb

Luckily using receiver with L/R and Energizer can be last resort.

But when a channel cuts out I've unplugged the aux line and plugged back in while it's active. TAKE OFF HEAD WHEN DOING THIS. it makes loud squeal but for me 90% of time it will reawaken the dead side or bring balance back. Sometimes I need to repeat.

This happens when I leave them sitting for a month or two and not using often.

Reawakened like Phoenix from the ashes.


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## bearFNF

penartur said:


> Left them playing music for 18 hours, the imbalance is still around 1.5x.


If you can find another energizer or amp to try the earspeakers on it might tell you if it is the earspeakers of the SRD6 that is the root issue. (or both.....)


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## penartur

SHAMuuu said:


> I've unplugged the aux line and plugged back in while it's active.


Do you mean, unplugged the stax adaptor from the ordinary amp?


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## SHAMuuu

penartur said:


> Do you mean, unplugged the stax adaptor from the ordinary amp?



No. The aux in my case is RCA cable. Which connects to the receiver. I use srd6/7 with vintage energizers. So connection between dac and receiver is the aux cable. 

Eg. I use sdac to JVC vintage receiver which connects to Energizer. So basically I disconnect at the dac the audio signal.

Works for me.


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## Phishin Phool

So I finally got around to EQ'ing my L300 with blue tack mod and I must say that my other headphones are going to be quite lonely. I may occasionally use my Fostex TH900 (Lawton mod and custom wood cups) paired with my Wii Audio amp as I really enjoy that combo for bass heavy music but my Koss Electrostats and Beyerdynamic DT990's are going to gather dust. MY Bowers and Wilkins P7 wireless are my mobile cans with my phone so they will stay in rotation but they are not as good as my listening station cans.


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